Roderick on the Line

Ep. 111: "The Handjob-Industrial Complex"

 

  this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going [TS]

  pretty good how are you going [TS]

  ah I'm impressed mm okay i'm impressed [TS]

  I'm impressed because you're a man who [TS]

  leaves the house and the vehicle you go [TS]

  places and you do things you spend your [TS]

  morning and your afternoon doing things [TS]

  and then you show up early for a podcast [TS]

  recording isn't that something I how do [TS]

  you do it [TS]

  not only that but there was a truck fire [TS]

  on the interstate [TS]

  mmm there are a lot of trucks on the [TS]

  interstate at two o'clock in the [TS]

  afternoon that seems to be high truck [TS]

  hour but there was a dump truck bed [TS]

  rolled over and spilled diesel fuel all [TS]

  over the interstate and burned itself [TS]

  I mean burned itself kind of completely [TS]

  up ok presented a scenario where that [TS]

  would have never happened [TS]

  yeah if it had been on a train thank you [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  although trains do sometimes crash and [TS]

  burn yeah but they crashed scale you get [TS]

  all that's right that's right it's like [TS]

  dying on Christmas at all you get jammed [TS]

  all into one thing [TS]

  yeah well and usually when a train [TS]

  crashes it also has some tanks of like [TS]

  you know liquids sulfuric acid or [TS]

  something they have to evacuate an [TS]

  entire town of bread and circuses that's [TS]

  what I see you give them a spectacle i [TS]

  was I went downtown today and park in a [TS]

  parking garage that right at noon to [TS]

  three things I never do [TS]

  and although I guess at noon isn't a [TS]

  thing but I went downtown at noon that's [TS]

  the thing i did try never to do and I [TS]

  parked in a parking garage the two [TS]

  things I never do [TS]

  and by the time I reach the seventh [TS]

  floor of the parking garage and had not [TS]

  found an empty spot I realized something [TS]

  i guess it never and never fully [TS]

  occurred to me like the dirty secret of [TS]

  cities that they are hiding all of these [TS]

  cars in these like car hives and in the [TS]

  more this is the reason that in the [TS]

  morning in the afternoon there are these [TS]

  tens of thousands of cars that are [TS]

  normally on the roads but like everybody [TS]

  drives into town and they pack into [TS]

  these hives i'm jon was just driving [TS]

  through this parking garage [TS]

  and I was I was realizing like oh wow [TS]

  this is really the problem this is [TS]

  astonishing that we think this is a good [TS]

  system its each one of these cars [TS]

  represents like one person making it [TS]

  from their house to their place to their [TS]

  job every one of these people is [TS]

  probably paying thirty dollars a day to [TS]

  park here and it's just like this [TS]

  extraordinary ways to resources and [TS]

  people's time and energy and all this [TS]

  like space they had to build the hold [TS]

  all these cars and just every aspect of [TS]

  it is a is a colossal hilarious waste [TS]

  and you know because it's behind kind of [TS]

  a wall of you know like a it's just [TS]

  packed in there in such a way that I not [TS]

  just me but we all walk through the city [TS]

  just kinda blissfully unaware that we [TS]

  are everyday linkle loading these silos [TS]

  up and I mean I guess if you work [TS]

  downtown you're not unaware this is the [TS]

  rest of the world you live in but right [TS]

  but it is looking at they live situation [TS]

  where like you just stop for a second [TS]

  and you look at you go this is crazy and [TS]

  it's always on the edge you notice that [TS]

  when a truck goes up right but like that [TS]

  does anybody ever get to work like half [TS]

  an hour early and get the first space [TS]

  and go i feel refreshed [TS]

  haha well and it's so it's so ad hoc [TS]

  that's the amazing thing you know it's [TS]

  like why is this the system [TS]

  well because every time there was a [TS]

  problem somebody fixed the immediate [TS]

  problem by building a new on-ramp by [TS]

  building a new building a new parking [TS]

  garage like at each step of the way we [TS]

  solved the most immediate problem like [TS]

  how I have to go to work downtown but my [TS]

  wife has to go to work four blocks from [TS]

  there [TS]

  well we gotta get two cars right you [TS]

  know like they saw everybody is solving [TS]

  the problem right in front of themselves [TS]

  and there is no there's no collective [TS]

  problem-solving there's no collective [TS]

  thinking in in the system really at all [TS]

  you've really got me thinking about that [TS]

  a lot in [TS]

  it's probably dangerous in the last few [TS]

  weeks talking about you know the systems [TS]

  in the grades and I i totally agree with [TS]

  you and because you know again say I say [TS]

  it's like they live because they all you [TS]

  really need you put on the glasses and [TS]

  suddenly you can see you know what's [TS]

  really going on and you but you're right [TS]

  i mean most of what's happening if you [TS]

  really really turbo way up a lot of our [TS]

  jobs are probably useless but even if [TS]

  they aren't using let's say they are [TS]

  useless against probably do it mostly [TS]

  from your house wanted absolutely what I [TS]

  wouldn't have most people's jobs are [TS]

  like move this file into that file type [TS]

  thing it's all typing right they say [TS]

  we're all just typing different things [TS]

  and I mean you when you think about that [TS]

  i mean this was the promise this was the [TS]

  promise of industrialization this was [TS]

  the promise of of technology was that we [TS]

  would be freed from all this meaningless [TS]

  labor right if you if you go back a [TS]

  hundred years and you and you imagine [TS]

  what they thought technology was going [TS]

  to provide it was always the technology [TS]

  would provide leisure we were going to [TS]

  be living in a in an environmental like [TS]

  decoteau Pia right where where what we [TS]

  would have to work one or two hours a [TS]

  day and the rest of the time we would be [TS]

  like in pedal-powered dirigibles like [TS]

  flying around the park to learning [TS]

  languages and writing classical music [TS]

  most yeah yeah [TS]

  thank you it would be it would be like [TS]

  uh it would be like the it would be like [TS]

  Spain under the Moors Pax Romana [TS]

  everybody would everybody would speak [TS]

  six different languages that you know [TS]

  the Jews would be getting along with the [TS]

  Zoroastrians it was like a perfect [TS]

  system [TS]

  yeah and instead what what we have done [TS]

  again just because of this ad hoc [TS]

  individualism is we've with all the [TS]

  technology all we have done is create [TS]

  more and more anxiety and more and more [TS]

  work but uh huh but like busywork busy [TS]

  work busy with sing it sister and then [TS]

  you gotta send him you gotta send an [TS]

  email about how you can't drive to [TS]

  someplace on time [TS]

  oh my god I'm driving I'm driving with [TS]

  one hand i'm texting with another guy [TS]

  gotta post to facebook video of burning [TS]

  truck right so then I'm the problem [TS]

  you're not an animal [TS]

  where's my parade i hear ya [TS]

  so yeah it's just insane I'm not a [TS]

  historian but there's an analogy people [TS]

  use for lots of different things [TS]

  especially things like old computer code [TS]

  they refer to it as being like the city [TS]

  of Rome where there's never gonna be [TS]

  like a great day to just start over you [TS]

  know really Manhattan's like this in a [TS]

  lot of ways just keep building you have [TS]

  some system that barely barely works at [TS]

  doing something we needed 50 years ago [TS]

  for a hundred years ago and you update [TS]

  that a little bit and then you put some [TS]

  patches on it and you hack on the little [TS]

  bit and you add a new lane but it's [TS]

  still the same completely screwed up [TS]

  system and there's never a good day to [TS]

  just start over and install pneumatic [TS]

  tubes which is what we really need [TS]

  well we talked about this i think a long [TS]

  time ago in 1999 when my mom started [TS]

  getting all these phone calls from from [TS]

  companies who were like listen we're [TS]

  still running the software that you [TS]

  wrote in 1968 and nobody knows how to [TS]

  nobody knows how to fix it right and [TS]

  we'll pay you any amount of money to [TS]

  come back and just let us then figure [TS]

  out how to insert a 444 numeral date [TS]

  code because all of the banks are going [TS]

  to stop working and my mom was like [TS]

  there is no amount of money that would [TS]

  entice me back in like know and and it [TS]

  turned out like it it didn't all come to [TS]

  a screeching halt [TS]

  but but the awareness i had at them at [TS]

  that time that so much of American [TS]

  industry was still running on patched-up [TS]

  forty-year-old fortran code was I mean [TS]

  cobol or whatever machining and that's [TS]

  and that's why I think with the the way [TS]

  that you least historically have heard [TS]

  that city of room metaphor applied most [TS]

  often to no surprise here the air [TS]

  traffic control systems Jesus which you [TS]

  know what I mean you know I see this at [TS]

  my bank where when i go into my bank if [TS]

  I need to get like a cashier's check or [TS]

  something it looks like a boss that [TS]

  they're using on [TS]

  well I know what I would I worry about [TS]

  or what not what I guess it's not a [TS]

  worry but I look at that and then I [TS]

  think okay how is this a metaphor for my [TS]

  personal life [TS]

  like they're mi I'm ad hoc solving [TS]

  problems in my own life at every turn [TS]

  and if i look at my whole if i look at [TS]

  the way I live and my goals and my [TS]

  dreams like what if I stripped away all [TS]

  the all of the infrastructure i think [TS]

  i've built and really imagine like what [TS]

  do I want to do what would I do with my [TS]

  day if I had no if I had no operatory a [TS]

  premise about how a day had to look even [TS]

  so Part B saying kind of like you know [TS]

  there's all the stuff we have to do this [TS]

  just kind of the overhead of doing [TS]

  grown-up stuff which you could certainly [TS]

  use called busy work stuff that feels [TS]

  like kind of a waste of time [TS]

  like if you could remove all of that [TS]

  friction would you be able to make your [TS]

  own personal Pax Romana would you be [TS]

  able to like become a great man and this [TS]

  and this I feel is like is is maybe the [TS]

  the lie of modernity the idea that we [TS]

  are all philosopher Kings the more [TS]

  leisure time people have the more it is [TS]

  revealed that we do not have boundless [TS]

  imaginations we do not know what to do [TS]

  with leisure because we are beasts of [TS]

  burden by construction we are meant to [TS]

  we are meant to live nasty brutish and [TS]

  short lives because we are well we are [TS]

  big monkey's said before like all the [TS]

  leisure in the world produces a reality [TS]

  television or it produces a culture of [TS]

  gaming that at the surface of it like [TS]

  you know I hate to ever go on the record [TS]

  in any way criticizing gaming mm because [TS]

  my god you get I mean you know I i got [TS]

  some angry letters about a podcast we [TS]

  did a couple of weeks ago where I said I [TS]

  don't even remember what I said but I [TS]

  said one charitable thing about China [TS]

  and it inflamed been innocent and a joke [TS]

  what's that people get mad when you say [TS]

  even one nice thing about China [TS]

  well I think I think China there are [TS]

  some people out there for whom china is [TS]

  a trigger word that day whatever siloed [TS]

  they're living in like like chinese that [TS]

  they're convinced that china is like the [TS]

  the inheritor of every sort of fascist [TS]

  trope and so you can't say a nice thing [TS]

  about China because China yeah [TS]

  chemtrails but it but boy if you start [TS]

  to talk about game [TS]

  yeah and say I say a bad thing about [TS]

  gaming you get all this money because [TS]

  the gamers have spent 40 years defending [TS]

  themselves against the PMRC or the for [TS]

  their moms and dads or whatever [TS]

  everybody going to another kind of civil [TS]

  rights almost yeah everybody had a [TS]

  hard-on for gaming for so long that the [TS]

  gamers are like really have their [TS]

  hackles up but also have their like 25 [TS]

  lines of defense about how ballad and [TS]

  valuable gaming is but in fact it is [TS]

  games it is adult games it is like it is [TS]

  like playing twister really like it and [TS]

  I don't know and maybe it is an entire [TS]

  world in a virtual world and a fantastic [TS]

  environment to play in but it's the [TS]

  holodeck and that's what we're doing [TS]

  with our with with are acquired leisure [TS]

  like that is that is the benefit that is [TS]

  that's how we're spending our savings [TS]

  that we have that we are like mining the [TS]

  mining the earth like stripping it bear [TS]

  and filling the skies full of smoke in [TS]

  order that we not have to like do [TS]

  admittedly the like difficult work of [TS]

  farming for ourselves [TS]

  yeah like pulling a ho or whatever and [TS]

  and so we don't have to pull a hoe [TS]

  anymore and we have the leisure now to [TS]

  like put our headphones on and stare at [TS]

  a at like a virtual space and and and [TS]

  hop around it with our virtual little [TS]

  man [TS]

  no you're on your own on this one our [TS]

  little man fills your little man goes [TS]

  there but it's a little shooting fish in [TS]

  a barrel i will say also that you know [TS]

  you're just you're just mad but [TS]

  somebody's gonna send you a really [TS]

  really long essay John is the official [TS]

  recipient for all notes on these things [TS]

  he enjoys getting them this episode of [TS]

  Roderick on the line is sponsored by [TS]

  Squarespace beyond the one platform that [TS]

  makes it fast and easy to create your [TS]

  own professional website portfolio or [TS]

  online store [TS]

  you may not even realize it but you are [TS]

  using square space right now because [TS]

  John and I have hosted Roderick on the [TS]

  line since day one they have been great [TS]

  to us listen guys I'm not the sharpest [TS]

  tool in the shed this morning I almost [TS]

  gave my daughter a glass of [TS]

  half-and-half and I later tried to buy a [TS]

  cup of coffee with my muni card i'm not [TS]

  a gifted man but even i can use [TS]

  Squarespace because they make this whole [TS]

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  stuck [TS]

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  highly recommend every plan comes with [TS]

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  right from your very own site so whether [TS]

  you're a podcaster musician a writer and [TS]

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  fact you'll get a free trial plus ten [TS]

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  the special offer code supertrain at [TS]

  checkout our thanks to squarespace for [TS]

  supporting Roderick online we could not [TS]

  do it without this but you know but I [TS]

  mean we talked about the social meeting [TS]

  joked about having to take a video of a [TS]

  fire i do think there is i was talking [TS]

  to some of the day about about facebook [TS]

  and i always feel like I'm a little bit [TS]

  in danger of trying of sounding like a [TS]

  nut [TS]

  not because I don't do facebook because [TS]

  i have to remind people I actually do [TS]

  have to remind people that i am one of [TS]

  the hill people I'm not no I'm not on [TS]

  Facebook and I I don't have that strong [TS]

  opinion about it because it's just [TS]

  something I don't do I mean I had a [TS]

  stronger opinion about it when I felt [TS]

  the pressure to have to do stuff with [TS]

  facebook but now that i am one of the [TS]

  hill people [TS]

  the pressure is not there but i think [TS]

  all [TS]

  that stuff it does create a kind of real [TS]

  anxiety that it's almost like if you [TS]

  said your dog like you need to relax you [TS]

  should start larping and they would go [TS]

  like now I'd really just really got me [TS]

  nervous about who's the leader out on [TS]

  the streets right now because that's [TS]

  more in my nature but that same kind of [TS]

  picmonkey drive that would lead a dog [TS]

  not to go out and play the Indian the [TS]

  woods you know today I think that you [TS]

  can find anxiety or social pressure and [TS]

  almost anything nowadays and this is to [TS]

  me what makes the work of rowdy roddy [TS]

  piper so poignant even today [TS]

  mmm i really do it's a hell of a movie I [TS]

  did is a great movie and you know Robin [TS]

  Goldwater's father played a starring [TS]

  role dimensional why don't you you're [TS]

  not hip to this she tell me this is he [TS]

  the gang fights has a 10-minute fight [TS]

  scene with him wasn't him [TS]

  okay Goldie status is a is the is the [TS]

  guy he's like the he's brought Roddy [TS]

  Piper's guide guide through to the to [TS]

  the new is Morpheus way of seeing ya its [TS]

  is Morpheus will cover this a little [TS]

  what we cut all this out we'll cover [TS]

  this on her side i love doctor about [TS]

  that but I feel like anxiety is the it's [TS]

  the glue that holds us all together now [TS]

  you know anxiety is the is the is the [TS]

  thing that Don Draper figured out sold [TS]

  us toothpaste anxiety is the thing that [TS]

  the that the military-industrial complex [TS]

  figured out kept us pouring money into [TS]

  you know into their black projects [TS]

  anxiety is the thing that keeps us [TS]

  getting married to one another it get it [TS]

  is the it's the glue that holds us [TS]

  together as a society and again because [TS]

  every one of those things was everything [TS]

  one of those things was that was a [TS]

  solution to a problem that was right in [TS]

  front of us and there was you know I not [TS]

  mean the conspiracists want us to think [TS]

  that there's somebody or somebodies who [TS]

  have a big plan [TS]

  who but to whatever degree there is a [TS]

  system it is a patchwork quilt of of [TS]

  small individuated like rubber [TS]

  patches on where the tire kept blowing [TS]

  out right and it's just like okay so now [TS]

  we're living in this world and and the [TS]

  the the degree to which things work in [TS]

  concert with one another is largely [TS]

  either happenstance or it's just this [TS]

  thing was right next to that thing so we [TS]

  made the gears the same ratio but the [TS]

  two things the two things work you know [TS]

  but do they like we get five things [TS]

  working together and we think that we [TS]

  are really building something but does [TS]

  that little ball fit into this you know [TS]

  the the giant ball pit of other little [TS]

  fiefdoms like none of it does really I i [TS]

  think i think you're right in a when you [TS]

  think I hate to put on my future's hat [TS]

  but you know one of the things that [TS]

  makes it makes it so damn difficult to [TS]

  try to figure out what's going to happen [TS]

  in the future because we have so much of [TS]

  what we know is based on the past and [TS]

  trying to fix like I say trying to fix a [TS]

  fifty-year-old problem with something [TS]

  innovative that you know get that thing [TS]

  fixed like I remember when I first heard [TS]

  the John Lennon had a record player in [TS]

  his rolls-royce it seemed like the [TS]

  coolest thing in the world but in [TS]

  retrospect it seems very very strange [TS]

  you know certainly luxurious but but [TS]

  there's there's one thing of all that [TS]

  you think think back to all of the [TS]

  novels and films as just of all the [TS]

  popular media about what computers were [TS]

  going to mean to people i mean and his [TS]

  recent if you like last night's mad men [TS]

  but you know people have for many many [TS]

  years wondered and worried about what [TS]

  parts of our lives [TS]

  computers are going to replace and we [TS]

  obviously in science fiction things like [TS]

  what happens when they become too [TS]

  intelligent and and so forth [TS]

  the one part of that it's still really [TS]

  resonates with me though is that as more [TS]

  things get automated it does start to [TS]

  feel a little bit like a Woody Allen [TS]

  movie from the seventies or something [TS]

  like if I i had to change i had had a [TS]

  charge on my mobile phone bill that was [TS]

  only removable by calling them so [TS]

  there's some kinds of things you can add [TS]

  on the website [TS]

  I i recently we know we did we haven't [TS]

  had our actual cable TV box for example [TS]

  connected to the modem for my [TS]

  it's and I've been paying for this and [TS]

  finally I'm not only combination why [TS]

  don't I just call them into this so but [TS]

  but in cases of my phone company i had [TS]

  to call them and like sit through a [TS]

  pitch for getting home internet and why [TS]

  wouldn't I want this service but and in [TS]

  the case of like for example with with [TS]

  my cable company i gotta return the [TS]

  modem I got to have a big discussion [TS]

  with them about this and why I'm not [TS]

  enjoying television and things like that [TS]

  and in that case in both of those cases [TS]

  i got good people to talk to [TS]

  but the one thing that still carries [TS]

  over from that fear of depersonalization [TS]

  dehumanization the computers in AI we're [TS]

  gonna bring is the sense that i don't [TS]

  really there's not really an effective [TS]

  place to turn for almost anything sort [TS]

  of to your thing about like if you find [TS]

  the person with the juice that can help [TS]

  you out but I had a hundred-dollar [TS]

  charge every month on my phone bill and [TS]

  I have to call and like persuade them [TS]

  that this was something I didn't want to [TS]

  have any more even though i have been [TS]

  out of the country in like a year and [TS]

  and in both of those cases will [TS]

  why didn't I call them when I just call [TS]

  comcast the first time it occurred to me [TS]

  that I wasn't watching TV and I was [TS]

  spending twenty dollars a month editing [TS]

  or whatever it was [TS]

  why don't I call it a hundred dollars [TS]

  month that's asinine because I know I'm [TS]

  already dreading that's the anxiety [TS]

  there is a thread of having to call and [TS]

  sit and find out how many minutes it is [TS]

  until the call will be important to them [TS]

  and and so on and so forth and I think [TS]

  that's still very real [TS]

  there's still a lot of self editing [TS]

  self-censorship along the lines of if [TS]

  you like big brother or like that camera [TS]

  doesn't even need to be on all the time [TS]

  i will create all the anxiety needed by [TS]

  my fear of having to interact with that [TS]

  system having to call about something [TS]

  broken that like I don't even know if [TS]

  that sense now i'm in Brazil and worried [TS]

  that Bob Hoskins is going to come in [TS]

  there and make it worse right [TS]

  yeah they create as they create a mental [TS]

  landscape where you pick up the phone [TS]

  you are gonna then enter into like of a [TS]

  enter into a virtual world to bring you [TS]

  care brand experience environment [TS]

  yeah right or you cannot see the horizon [TS]

  and you're walking and you hear your [TS]

  voice echoing and you're like hello it's [TS]

  a lot like Las Vegas is like a casino [TS]

  without drinks loc in this room with no [TS]

  windows and clocks that you can't get [TS]

  out of your right and you get your [TS]

  hearing ticking but there's also like so [TS]

  there's some distant music playing [TS]

  you're navigating around its kind of [TS]

  foggy in there you're navigating around [TS]

  all these little minor obstacles [TS]

  and you don't there's no exit door or [TS]

  you see an exit door but it just it [TS]

  turns into it's just it disappears in [TS]

  the fog and I don't think that was I [TS]

  don't think there was any brain trust [TS]

  that envisioned that as a solution to [TS]

  their customer service issues I think [TS]

  they just happened upon it like wow look [TS]

  at this [TS]

  we only have five operators and there [TS]

  are 50 people waiting to be helped and [TS]

  like 45 of them will just sit there [TS]

  forever [TS]

  so what wow that's what is that it is [TS]

  like a video game what you're describing [TS]

  is like a video game though in that [TS]

  sense that like I'm not that good at [TS]

  video games and I know I'm not and I [TS]

  know that when I get into that system [TS]

  there's a chance that i will hit the [TS]

  wrong button and i will end up somewhere [TS]

  where I can't get out and the call will [TS]

  disconnect and i'll have to start over [TS]

  and over the dial and we're all that and [TS]

  i might be alone i might be the only [TS]

  lunatic in the world that sits around [TS]

  and fear of having to make that call but [TS]

  I am fear of that call and I hate [TS]

  getting to the point where i can hit two [TS]

  or do nothing [TS]

  yeah oh my god well and I'm sure as I'm [TS]

  sitting here thinking I'm I'm realizing [TS]

  like this is what was so brilliant about [TS]

  the set design of Blade Runner and Star [TS]

  Wars both because both of those if you [TS]

  think about the Millennium Falcon and [TS]

  the way the Millennium Falcon is [TS]

  designed it is it's built in such a way [TS]

  that you see you see that it has evolved [TS]

  from earlier ships to solve problems [TS]

  like the Millennium Falcon is not an [TS]

  elegant design it is a design it's an [TS]

  ad-hoc design and over time you can kind [TS]

  of imagine the evolution of us of a of a [TS]

  freighter of a spaceship and this is [TS]

  what they came up with like the Death [TS]

  Star is basically just a speck if when [TS]

  you get in close to it it's a thousand [TS]

  little condos [TS]

  you know it's like a thousand little [TS]

  town houses and condos and bullshit [TS]

  little towers at least it basically [TS]

  looks like daly city in space [TS]

  yeah because every single different like [TS]

  minor administrator in the imperial [TS]

  system needed his own you know had his [TS]

  own requirements for what [TS]

  stand you know what the building [TS]

  standard of his little quadrant was and [TS]

  so the death star at a distance looks [TS]

  like a globe but when you get in close [TS]

  its justthis pimply little ball and the [TS]

  same is true of blade runner you get the [TS]

  feeling that like those floating police [TS]

  cars or whatever card are just it's just [TS]

  what happened when you were married to [TS]

  the idea of what a car looked like but [TS]

  then you put but then you had like sort [TS]

  of minor hover craft technology and [TS]

  rather than build a new a completely new [TS]

  thing you just built a kind of car [TS]

  looking thing that also could hover and [TS]

  that so those those set designs were so [TS]

  convincing and so much like they still [TS]

  resonate with this because it's like [TS]

  yeah that is kind of how it would go [TS]

  isn't it it's it's not like we're ever [TS]

  really going to build something new [TS]

  we're just going to keep building like [TS]

  why does the Tesla look like a lotus [TS]

  well because it is a lotus and the new [TS]

  Tesla is like a fat lotus and the next [TS]

  one will be you know will be just a like [TS]

  something globbed onto the last thing [TS]

  and why the human imagination [TS]

  I mean it's not that our imaginations [TS]

  are constrained it's that you walk into [TS]

  the room and you're like I've got it and [TS]

  the first five people you talk to her [TS]

  like well but a bill that would be a [TS]

  real investment should we just you know [TS]

  what what what if we just took the old [TS]

  trains and we painted them gray and we [TS]

  called it [TS]

  amtrak what about that mean that's that [TS]

  be a lot cheaper than that doing the [TS]

  thing that you're talking about like [TS]

  redesigning redesigning the system like [TS]

  let's just let's just keep the old thing [TS]

  and I i watch later again last week [TS]

  why wouldn't you it's just extraordinary [TS]

  if anybody is listening to this podcast [TS]

  and hasn't watched blade runner in the [TS]

  last month and a half i don't know what [TS]

  the hell you're talking to it ends up [TS]

  being it's one of those you know one of [TS]

  those movies that ends up being [TS]

  in my snap to grid movie like it's just [TS]

  what i end up watching sometimes and I I [TS]

  mean I've seen it a bunch of times but [TS]

  there's little details like when deckard [TS]

  call Sean Young from the bar on the [TS]

  video phone and it's got it really is [TS]

  going on [TS]

  it's good for fiji on it it's like it [TS]

  looks like that's exactly what that [TS]

  would look like you know what i mean and [TS]

  then of course it's really expensive [TS]

  like a doll or something for the call [TS]

  but you know they were they were so far [TS]

  ahead of their time and you know that's [TS]

  what makes like you say that's what [TS]

  makes so much of that stuff from so i [TS]

  guess for most of the star wars on is [TS]

  that there's a built-in brokenness you [TS]

  know to all of it you know all the way [TS]

  down to the death star having this you [TS]

  know vulnerability let me ask you this [TS]

  pivot so so the whole movie starts out [TS]

  with the nexuses they've gotten too [TS]

  smart and they're killers and now we [TS]

  can't have them on the planet anymore [TS]

  the Tyrell still making nexuses we got a [TS]

  lot of work to do out in space is on the [TS]

  offworld yeah we're colonizing all these [TS]

  other like little law places where were [TS]

  out by the 10 house or gate [TS]

  yeah you know we got a lot of work to do [TS]

  out there and that and that's the thing [TS]

  like and and what what astonishes me [TS]

  honestly is that we still have not [TS]

  normalized the concept of a robot [TS]

  handjob machine like how far how much [TS]

  further do we have to progress is I'm [TS]

  hole in the market my for goodness robot [TS]

  handjob machine is just a normal thing [TS]

  that you buy at the sears because that [TS]

  should be like a toaster oven it should [TS]

  be the kind of thing were forty dollars [TS]

  you can get a pretty serviceable robot [TS]

  handjob machine all across America and [TS]

  I'm not saying I'm not saying the other [TS]

  countries of the world because I know [TS]

  techno technologically a lot of them are [TS]

  have a lot of catching up to do [TS]

  they are still burning peat to heat [TS]

  their homes but in America and France [TS]

  and Germany right and England people [TS]

  think about the wasted effort [TS]

  the wasted he-man pet man-hours going [TS]

  into person hours person sorry person [TS]

  hours going into either administering [TS]

  hand jobs to other people [TS]

  or all the self handjob and yeah you [TS]

  know the nice thing about your job hand [TS]

  job is something that is often given [TS]

  with and received with glee and delight [TS]

  it's like a sweet surprise that comes up [TS]

  and it's a nice thing but you shouldn't [TS]

  have to depend on it from his rifle it's [TS]

  like it's like it's like a big day like [TS]

  it be it would be nice to you know nice [TS]

  I guess what I'm saying is like I don't [TS]

  want to still be able to do what i do in [TS]

  the bathroom without there being of a [TS]

  day there in that case I you should you [TS]

  should have a robot that could stand in [TS]

  your shield people right now [TS]

  yeah all up around the world are making [TS]

  very questionable decisions in order to [TS]

  try and secure for themselves or their [TS]

  loved ones a handjob and those decisions [TS]

  could be slightly busy work a lot of [TS]

  busy what's right completely ameliorated [TS]

  by what would I mean I think part of the [TS]

  problem is we always imagine that with [TS]

  the technology we're striving for is a [TS]

  perfect robot sex partner that does not [TS]

  have an uncanny valley [TS]

  yeah so to speak but in fact pretty [TS]

  ambitious John you know think about the [TS]

  technology that's good that I mean we're [TS]

  gonna have to be a lot of cylinders [TS]

  firing together we are in sync to build [TS]

  a a perfect sex partner robot but a [TS]

  handjob [TS]

  I mean in and you know I madam butterfly [TS]

  is already available who that you can [TS]

  wear under your garment for my job for [TS]

  where's the fucking matter butterfly and [TS]

  I'm not talking about a flashlight [TS]

  no it's like literally undignified about [TS]

  it's like if I'd come on here and what [TS]

  I'm gonna tell about some guy in a white [TS]

  van like parked in front of Rick's with [TS]

  flashlights going like I wanted to be [TS]

  normalized so that it's like a vacuum [TS]

  cleaner it's like a it's a household [TS]

  appliance on Christmas morning [TS]

  like what do you get dad for christmas i [TS]

  thi know i could see mom pop in for a [TS]

  pretty nice robust get him a whirlpool [TS]

  thing at a time that opens up for her [TS]

  what and you know and and it when you're [TS]

  really thinking systemically [TS]

  has anyone really thought about the [TS]

  multi uses of like a spooge like like [TS]

  like let's say I'm gonna guess now I [TS]

  yeah I'm sure somebody's thought about [TS]

  it but let's say like I is it up [TS]

  I mean is it a good plant food nobody's [TS]

  nobody's tested it right i mean we know [TS]

  that plants love electrolytes that's we [TS]

  plan to eat picture about what I think [TS]

  about the in the nutrients in in injins [TS]

  Yeah right right now it's all it's all [TS]

  just being swept away in shame [TS]

  it's going down the toilet so they are [TS]

  putting are putting are putting our [TS]

  Lantern under a bushel basket [TS]

  thank you that's right and and we are [TS]

  asking our our sewage treatment plants [TS]

  to process what is probably like 80 [TS]

  gallons of juice today and we don't even [TS]

  recognize that's what it is because it's [TS]

  just in there with all the Putin's done [TS]

  but that is just like potentially high [TS]

  protein nutrient we could be think it [TS]

  would be feeding we could be feeding our [TS]

  our ferrets with it [TS]

  think about what a fair would do if you [TS]

  put a little bullet jizz in front of [TS]

  would gobble it down so what I'm saying [TS]

  is we need to start to think [TS]

  systemically yeah i like i like the [TS]

  scope of the of the robot handjob [TS]

  machine and I'm i guess i just think [TS]

  about handjob machine and jewelry [TS]

  processor just like this like baby steps [TS]

  John but yeah you're right so there will [TS]

  be some kind of I you know what God um [TS]

  that's a really compelling idea but you [TS]

  know here's the other thing though is [TS]

  you think about most the sex stuff is [TS]

  obviously designed with like pervy porno [TS]

  guys in mind and but like what is the [TS]

  robot handjob machine for a gentleman [TS]

  who's not ashamed to have one let me ask [TS]

  you this how many people like lock their [TS]

  bonding up at night right [TS]

  they're not ashamed got it on the [TS]

  goddamn coffee table that's right it's [TS]

  like to welcome to my home and there's [TS]

  my bong it's part of my accoutrements [TS]

  and it's certainly it's a little bit [TS]

  outside of the norm as it currently [TS]

  exists but that's changing everyday [TS]

  writing the board's much much more [TS]

  acceptable now [TS]

  to have a tab along and much more [TS]

  acceptable for people to talk about to [TS]

  talk in fact ad nauseam about their [TS]

  sexual proclivities seems those sexual [TS]

  proclivities are if they identify those [TS]

  proclivities as part of their identity [TS]

  right as part of their political [TS]

  identity but what is somewhat is shared [TS]

  more than masturbation it is the thing [TS]

  that unites us as a people that anxiety [TS]

  and masturbation anxiety and and my god [TS]

  think about the masturbation anxiety [TS]

  think about what a engine of progress or [TS]

  like dubious engine of progress [TS]

  masturbation anxiety is you've got me [TS]

  thinking in you talking about the grids [TS]

  in the system's I wonder if the [TS]

  theoretical handjob economy has a lot to [TS]

  do with why things are the way they are [TS]

  why there is so much busy work because [TS]

  you think about like for example like [TS]

  let's just say nothing against bars [TS]

  nothing against alcohol it's not like I [TS]

  bet you the alcohol industry would not [TS]

  be super into the idea of wide-scale [TS]

  adoption of a robot handjob machine [TS]

  because right they're going to [TS]

  somebody's going to be buying desert you [TS]

  never know what's in the future [TS]

  why would you even go to a bar if you [TS]

  didn't have to [TS]

  and the only reason you go to a bar is [TS]

  maybe you're going to get or give a hand [TS]

  job at some point right [TS]

  you're gonna get a little drunk it's not [TS]

  it's not just seemed like a good idea [TS]

  yeah but you know there's layers and [TS]

  layers to all this John too many layers [TS]

  H Christ weather and so what we would [TS]

  have to do those courses you have to [TS]

  have some kind of you wouldn't want to [TS]

  give one want to get into a situation [TS]

  where people could have satisfying [TS]

  handjobs anytime they wanted because how [TS]

  much of our culture is only how much how [TS]

  much are we trying to solve the climate [TS]

  change problem that we have created [TS]

  only because of the promise of a certain [TS]

  number of hand jobs as a result of the [TS]

  work we're doing right like if that ends [TS]

  up being one of our prime motivator it [TS]

  drives the economy and we just end up [TS]

  and we put you know we we solve that [TS]

  problem we get we will short-circuit the [TS]

  the motor of progress we've already [TS]

  we've created a problem we've created it [TS]

  the proper we've created let's say that [TS]

  the pollution economy and now if we just [TS]

  give ourselves all the hand jobs we want [TS]

  to solve it [TS]

  we're just gonna we're gonna choke on [TS]

  our own smog sitting and talk on our own [TS]

  feet to our favorite and we have a lot [TS]

  while our ferrets girls go girl larger [TS]

  and stronger on a steady diet of pure [TS]

  judges we need to we need to figure out [TS]

  a way to to portion out the hand jobs [TS]

  and then it becomes a question of who's [TS]

  in charge who's in charge of who gets [TS]

  access to a handjob machine ok jobs the [TS]

  jobbers see this [TS]

  so you're saying you should be like you [TS]

  wouldn't want to be like like an aspirin [TS]

  it shouldn't be like a handjob pill it [TS]

  shouldn't be that easy is that what [TS]

  you're saying [TS]

  maybe maybe it would be like a little [TS]

  like one of those breathalyzers that you [TS]

  have to use to start your car make sure [TS]

  you breathe through the right end right [TS]

  you be you breathe into the tube you [TS]

  breathe into the tube and some of that [TS]

  hot breath is collected for to add to [TS]

  someone else's and job you're the real [TS]

  future is John what I mean you're not [TS]

  why we're not afraid to go big picture [TS]

  why waste the hot breath I see the theme [TS]

  i see a theme here though that you you [TS]

  it seems like it's I don't think of you [TS]

  as foremost as an environmentalist but [TS]

  you're really looking at the at the at [TS]

  the at the biome you're looking at the [TS]

  big picture of where all this stuff goes [TS]

  right is like it's kind of a big part of [TS]

  it you seems to me like you're saying [TS]

  you're throwing pennies down our toilet [TS]

  all day long we should be putting these [TS]

  into some kind of a sperm bank [TS]

  it's absolutely right it seems to me [TS]

  crazy and i think that i think the more [TS]

  conventional way of looking at this as [TS]

  you drive through the town [TS]

  you look up especially six o'clock at [TS]

  night in the wintertime you look up [TS]

  through the through the big playground [TS]

  glass windows at the hundreds and [TS]

  hundreds of people on exercise bikes all [TS]

  with headphones on all just plowing away [TS]

  just burning energy and and you know [TS]

  we-we-we-we bioengineered the corn that [TS]

  went into their high fructose corn syrup [TS]

  lunches and now here they are on their [TS]

  bikes like like schoolgirls windows are [TS]

  electric razor electric machines they're [TS]

  drawing electricity between order to [TS]

  have people generate electricity that [TS]

  goes nowhere and and the idea that we [TS]

  have not already i mean we identified [TS]

  this problem a long time ago but we have [TS]

  not actually just gone in as a as a [TS]

  human race [TS]

  no innovator has come along and said [TS]

  look every exercise bike from here on [TS]

  out has to have to add energy to the [TS]

  grid rather than take it like it's just [TS]

  a no-brainer [TS]

  why are we not putting all these [TS]

  exercise machines why are we not [TS]

  developing passive resistance as a [TS]

  technology used in exercise and every [TS]

  single gym in the country should be [TS]

  producing admittedly a small amount of [TS]

  energy but still energy like the the [TS]

  food that we are giving to these these [TS]

  human agents these like automatons these [TS]

  human beings that we have paid to sit in [TS]

  front of a computer all day and now its [TS]

  ass in front of a computer and move [TS]

  virtual paper around now they in order [TS]

  to even feel alive and feel like human [TS]

  beings they need to pretend they're [TS]

  pulling a plow [TS]

  oh yeah when we pay them to sit very [TS]

  still [TS]

  yeah now why are we not trying to [TS]

  harvest that energy why not just go the [TS]

  wine I just get go the whole hog and [TS]

  just recognize that we are at that human [TS]

  it that it is essentially a kind of [TS]

  matrix where human beings are an [TS]

  extremely inefficient way of of [TS]

  converting corn energy into electricity [TS]

  into fake paper and additional but I [TS]

  mean like you could just burn corn and [TS]

  probably harvest more energy then you're [TS]

  the venue that you're going to get from [TS]

  feeding corn too [TS]

  kiss my somebody making of flappy bird [TS]

  naka that and then having them sit in an [TS]

  air on chair all day and then at the end [TS]

  of the day telling them to climb virtual [TS]

  stairs while a little video screen tell [TS]

  you know while they're watching like fox [TS]

  news right why should we not in that in [TS]

  that entire process also have a tube [TS]

  connected to their penis where we are [TS]

  harvesting their kids wear like [TS]

  collecting their sweat and where were [TS]

  feeding that 22 some other like helpful [TS]

  rodents [TS]

  uh-huh we have I mean why are we not [TS]

  working as why is this not a symbiosis [TS]

  yeah there's no there's a lot of corn [TS]

  being raised for dicey reasons for sure [TS]

  jesus H Christ there is just too much [TS]

  goddamn corn and you know and the other [TS]

  thing is I'm thinking now about like [TS]

  when I remember the first time I gotta [TS]

  watch that winds itself as you walk [TS]

  around now you can watch yourself [TS]

  I don't drive one of those shifter [TS]

  watches no now I've got an automatic i [TS]

  watch Ryan's wines itself or like add [TS]

  like the way a previous works isn't part [TS]

  of a Prius I think when you hit the [TS]

  brakes it like adds energy to the [TS]

  battery [TS]

  yea rather than just rather than convert [TS]

  the ejaculate in all of that wonderful [TS]

  energy all over the rather than [TS]

  converted into heat which you then have [TS]

  to dissipate it is trying to convert it [TS]

  into energy through a generator it [TS]

  sounds like there are i mean once the [TS]

  vision is in place it seems like it's [TS]

  mostly about there's several different [TS]

  sort of arms if you like of the [TS]

  technology that have to go into place [TS]

  you're obviously yes we need people [TS]

  working on a rapidly improving robot [TS]

  handjob machine but also we really do [TS]

  need to look into what's being thrown [TS]

  away what could be made for what could [TS]

  be replaced with it [TS]

  that's right i think about think about [TS]

  think about a train right if you if you [TS]

  think about force time force equals mass [TS]

  times acceleration right so if a if a if [TS]

  a if a feather its you at 50 miles an [TS]

  hour [TS]

  it doesn't hurt but a train it's you at [TS]

  50 miles an hour boy it does and that's [TS]

  like one of the basic understandings [TS]

  that we have right as as people [TS]

  but we are not where we're not seeing [TS]

  the other side of that equation if you [TS]

  think about what it takes to stop up a [TS]

  fully loaded freight train the amount of [TS]

  energy it took to get that train going [TS]

  and then we have to burn off that energy [TS]

  to stop that train and there is no [TS]

  locomotive in America no train in [TS]

  America that has just an extra car in a [TS]

  hundred car train an extra car whose job [TS]

  it is to collect that energy as we're [TS]

  breaking the train which we have to do [TS]

  every freaking day we have to break [TS]

  these trains we have to you know they're [TS]

  coming down out of the mountains and [TS]

  it's an it's one of the primary problem [TS]

  it's one of the prop primary problems [TS]

  that train people have to solve this [TS]

  train is going to come down this [TS]

  mountain and it has so much mass behind [TS]

  it to keep this train from just breaking [TS]

  loose and becoming a wild train and [TS]

  crashing into the city like it's one of [TS]

  the big technologies of like being [TS]

  trained people right we have to keep the [TS]

  train from going out of control but but [TS]

  nobody is saying why are we not [TS]

  harvesting that energy there's all this [TS]

  energy we're just burning off and it [TS]

  would be it would [TS]

  I'm no engineer i am a computer science [TS]

  professor but I'm no engineer but it [TS]

  would not be that big of a leap to [TS]

  design the next-gen of trains where as [TS]

  they break they are stop there [TS]

  they're converting that energy into [TS]

  electricity [TS]

  and you know yeah and then what do you [TS]

  do with that what do you do with that [TS]

  electricity [TS]

  well I need to plan for getting a [TS]

  handjob machines and that you know and [TS]

  that will end up being the whole end up [TS]

  being a increment of of like our uh of [TS]

  economic thinking like this local our [TS]

  brand new locomotive conserves enough [TS]

  energy to power 200,000 handjob machines [TS]

  used to think about in terms of movies [TS]

  every time like a train my like post [TS]

  college years every time I think about [TS]

  spending money on something I guess who [TS]

  forty dollars that's like four movies [TS]

  right sector comes to color the coin of [TS]

  the realm it's like five thousand [TS]

  dollars is one homeowner monetary unit [TS]

  and HMU i like to call it when i moved [TS]

  into my house i was like i need to [TS]

  replace the roof on the barn and [TS]

  somebody said all that will cost about [TS]

  five thousand dollars and then I said [TS]

  boy I need to fix the you know I need to [TS]

  fix the furnace know that will cost five [TS]

  thousand dollars and after I'd lived [TS]

  here about a year I realized everything [TS]

  costs five thousand dollars that's [TS]

  insane [TS]

  and so what what you end up doing is you [TS]

  end up you end up looking at at home [TS]

  improvement projects like how many hm [TS]

  you'se is it going to be if we remodel [TS]

  the guest room that's for hm you'se if [TS]

  if you want to redo a kitchen you're [TS]

  looking at five to six hm you'se if you [TS]

  want to just like put a new roof on the [TS]

  house probably 12 to hm you'se really [TS]

  yeah and extraordinary hm you'se are [TS]

  just a thing that you have to give to [TS]

  get the factor into owning a home you [TS]

  can't you can buy your house and you can [TS]

  live in it for five to ten years and [TS]

  then shits gonna start breaking and when [TS]

  it does you're going to you're going to [TS]

  learn that the man with the clipboard [TS]

  comes to the house and he's gonna you [TS]

  know you might you might get your [TS]

  gutters replaced for half of an HMU [TS]

  point five hm you'se food but you know [TS]

  forget about forget about anybody coming [TS]

  to look at your pipes or your your basic [TS]

  like infrastructure of the house for [TS]

  less than [TS]

  listen about point 521 HMU give a [TS]

  thought on high-density housing do I i [TS]

  ask because I I learned some not tragic [TS]

  news but bummer news last week and I [TS]

  don't need to ask you this year we've in [TS]

  the flax write a couple times em they [TS]

  gotta move on oh yeah 23,000 like 23,000 [TS]

  square foot square feet of art supplies [TS]

  and incredibly helpful people they gotta [TS]

  move because they're going to put some [TS]

  condos in there and the thing is the [TS]

  city really really really needs [TS]

  well yes yes that's one of those [TS]

  locations where when you realize that [TS]

  like that prime space is being taken up [TS]

  with little wood human models let's get [TS]

  in there canonical item is a little [TS]

  under sign outside kept the sketcher [TS]

  dolls or whatever those things are [TS]

  called we're going to go for precisely [TS]

  the pen that I want you know that's the [TS]

  thing now you're going to have to you're [TS]

  going to have to get in the car and go [TS]

  out to go up to sausalito yeah well I [TS]

  mean this is the this is the thing that [TS]

  that we've seen here in king county in [TS]

  seattle if you don't want all the [TS]

  surrounding farms to be turned into [TS]

  tract housing you have to submit to the [TS]

  fact that they're going to redevelop [TS]

  your city in such a way where they tear [TS]

  down nice old churches and they tear [TS]

  down what they consider what the [TS]

  conventional wisdom right now considers [TS]

  to be inefficient old Victorian how [TS]

  housing or one-story a retail and they [TS]

  put in I I vhi college I ovh inefficient [TS]

  old Victorian houses i will be a job [TS]

  there they turn that shit down each [TS]

  one's about 20,000 hmm its they [TS]

  construct these new buildings which are [TS]

  quote unquote green and about half of [TS]

  the half of the construction material is [TS]

  actually blown in in a hose right they [TS]

  like build some they build some [TS]

  galvanized tin superstructure [TS]

  to hold their blown in like newspaper as [TS]

  they as they tear out hundred and fifty [TS]

  year old Slavic before pics yeah right i [TS]

  like all the homes made out of old [TS]

  growth for their just ripping it down [TS]

  and shipping it off to a to a landfill [TS]

  so they can build this green housing and [TS]

  then you're living in a Habitrail but I [TS]

  think that's what these are gonna be the [TS]

  reason i mention that i need to look at [TS]

  that article again but I think these are [TS]

  going to be those like home of the [TS]

  future top condos [TS]

  you know it's like living in an RV oh [TS]

  yeah you know the thing they're doing [TS]

  now we can get like it's kinda been a [TS]

  least on the paper and stuff they talked [TS]

  a lot lately about San Francisco and you [TS]

  know a future where we might have more [TS]

  and more than 300 square foot [TS]

  oh sure Peter minutes at what they would [TS]

  have their ideal situation is that every [TS]

  new housing is just like turned it's [TS]

  just something out of the Tokyo Airport [TS]

  where you put it you put your dad's room [TS]

  for your fixing your hands out machine [TS]

  value at four hundred yen into a slot a [TS]

  little tube opens your clients like a [TS]

  torpedo tube you climb in their face [TS]

  down your penis just naturally goes into [TS]

  the handjob slot and I'm and then [TS]

  there's like sunscreen that's playing [TS]

  you anime videos like Bank of videos of [TS]

  like a rabbit's with the giants and [TS]

  you're here all your functions are [TS]

  naturally there tube goes right up your [TS]

  personal or so far ahead of us corn [TS]

  effluvia it [TS]

  the problem is of course that ok here's [TS]

  here's a here's a a inefficient [TS]

  victorian housing unit right and the [TS]

  prospect of shared housing where each [TS]

  room in that house would be someone's [TS]

  apartment and they would pay you know it [TS]

  be it's the classic sort of college [TS]

  shared house [TS]

  well that's the old way of living [TS]

  that's the way that I mean that that's [TS]

  the way that house was designed [TS]

  originally because the reason it has so [TS]

  many bedrooms is that grandma lived with [TS]

  you and your spinster aunt lived there [TS]

  and you're here like your text [TS]

  brother-in-law lived there and all these [TS]

  people were living together in the house [TS]

  and then for many years it was just like [TS]

  a hippie flophouse or [TS]

  people were sharing these rooms but now [TS]

  the prospect of sharing a kitchen with [TS]

  strangers are sharing a sharing even a [TS]

  common area with strangers fills us with [TS]

  anxiety and we would much rather have a [TS]

  smaller and more antiseptic living [TS]

  environment where we can go close our [TS]

  door be away from other people no one [TS]

  you know in a way we are becoming a [TS]

  culture and I never thought I would say [TS]

  this but like where introversion is is [TS]

  setting the standard for for the way we [TS]

  build and think about our space takes up [TS]

  space in a sense that like just in my [TS]

  own life just in my own adult life 20 [TS]

  years ago and it wasn't just because i [TS]

  was young but like what did you do on a [TS]

  saturday night if you weren't going to a [TS]

  rock show you were going to some [TS]

  alternative theater or like the be [TS]

  playing your baby grand piano [TS]

  they are the alternatives were all [TS]

  public it was if you weren't even social [TS]

  social you work even if you were [TS]

  somebody who was very like solitaire [TS]

  without I mean it you could stay alone [TS]

  in your apartment but even the most [TS]

  solitary person needs some kind of [TS]

  interaction and it and you had to get [TS]

  that in the public sphere you had to go [TS]

  to an event or at least go out and [TS]

  wander around and in the last 20 years [TS]

  all of our innovation has happened in [TS]

  the sphere of allowing people to [TS]

  interact with other people without go [TS]

  out what's interesting and so if i don't [TS]

  i would you have why would you have an [TS]

  eight-room house in a way it's almost [TS]

  like housing becomes does for housing [TS]

  it's doing for housing what the cloud [TS]

  does for data where we don't have to [TS]

  have our own hard drive sitting around [TS]

  we don't need a place to put a grand [TS]

  piano effectively if you're going to [TS]

  mostly be working at Twitter for 16 [TS]

  hours a day pop into doc's clock for two [TS]

  hours and then right back to your pod [TS]

  like why would you need all of that [TS]

  stuff right and and [TS]

  increasingly like what do you need in [TS]

  your house you need a sink you need a [TS]

  shower [TS]

  lots of power outlets lots of power [TS]

  outlets nobody takes a bath anymore you [TS]

  just need a kind of like you're any we [TS]

  don't even really need to shower it [TS]

  could just be compressed air you know [TS]

  that just blows the dirt off of you and [TS]

  then you have a microwave and you have [TS]

  one sort of heating element that that [TS]

  connects your pot so that it boil some [TS]

  water for your ramen screen for [TS]

  seamless.com and and and you need to [TS]

  poop chute man and for now at least you [TS]

  need up you need a box of Kleenex for [TS]

  your just because nobody has figured out [TS]

  a way to recycle that they're starting [TS]

  they're going to knock down flax in [TS]

  order to put up tiny condos I hope [TS]

  there's going to be some some cheese [TS]

  apertures well there won't be because [TS]

  because you and I don't have that do not [TS]

  have the widespread agency yet to be [TS]

  affecting like zoning or touching people [TS]

  that only few at a time [TS]

  yeah and I and I feel like I don't [TS]

  necessarily think that housing people in [TS]

  pods is is the wrong direction but again [TS]

  I mean and I an addict i will be the [TS]

  last guy to reference the matrix movies [TS]

  over and over and over [TS]

  sure but but like those little yellow [TS]

  gel-filled like yes it's basically it's [TS]

  like a human ramekin sitting there like [TS]

  a desert product right and you are you [TS]

  are unaware of the outside world you're [TS]

  unaware that you are even that your [TS]

  world isn't the world you perceive it to [TS]

  be it's just a little holding it's just [TS]

  a little soap dish that that that you [TS]

  know keeps you alive as you generate [TS]

  energy for the road as you generate [TS]

  energy for the robots and I mean it's [TS]

  it's amazingly appreciate when you start [TS]

  to when you start to imagine that the [TS]

  that the next generation the next [TS]

  iteration of our modern world is a lot [TS]

  closer to the first step toward that [TS]

  eventualities than it is a step in a [TS]

  different direction [TS]

  right you know like sure put me in a [TS]

  smaller apartment and and put my virtual [TS]

  headset on and and give me a give me a [TS]

  sex friend and I you know and and the [TS]

  heat these super ferrets that have [TS]

  become sort of sort of self-aware [TS]

  because they're eating this high [TS]

  nutrition food super ferrets are [TS]

  basically performing the role of helper [TS]

  monkeys [TS]

  haha that's terrific thank you know they [TS]

  can turn pages for you that you don't [TS]

  then you're plugging your you're walking [TS]

  walking stickers [TS]

  yeah they have a natural affinity for [TS]

  going up high and they want to go to [TS]

  there and reach stuff for you like this [TS]

  store treat ya get up there hey hey fair [TS]

  buddy you know like if you don't bring [TS]

  me down my cocoa krispies I'm not going [TS]

  to give you your little fugitive the you [TS]

  know like a pearl jam [TS]

  oh goodness man takes a village [TS]

  pearl jam is that where that comes from [TS]

  and I figured it was a little on the [TS]

  nose but is that the you know they claim [TS]

  that it's named after grandma pearls jam [TS]

  i heard it was under the giant there was [TS]

  a drawing from john lennon son was lucy [TS]

  in the sky and so who ya at ncc that [TS]

  steely dan still Barrett's lot of rock [TS]

  rock sex crossover I mean I'm feeling it [TS]

  I'm feeling it all the time in my own [TS]

  life is that right well if you're [TS]

  feeling the pole to to make a dick joke [TS]

  in your band name [TS]

  i I just I feel like as you get to as [TS]

  you get is you arrive at a certain [TS]

  station in life I i was watching this [TS]

  documentary the other day where George [TS]

  Hamilton appears in the documentary john [TS]

  milius I was watching that John Milius [TS]

  document wasn't that a hell of a thing [TS]

  as an extraordinary documentary it was I [TS]

  did not know I didn't either about what [TS]

  happened well for I mean I knew he was a [TS]

  little bit unusual i didn't know he was [TS]

  had that many photos of himself taking [TS]

  them uniforms with guns [TS]

  yeah but i didn't know what happened to [TS]

  him that's so sad [TS]

  well I mean certainly the stroke is sad [TS]

  but the clerk's but certainly this is [TS]

  something that the like I I was not [TS]

  aware that he made red dawn I didn't [TS]

  know he did code and I don't know chance [TS]

  to read on the other day because I feel [TS]

  like the I feel like the logic of red [TS]

  dawn made so much sense to me as a [TS]

  teenager like somebody in the [TS]

  documentary there's some like you know [TS]

  do-gooder whole segment about all this [TS]

  scare segments about way Red Dawn means [TS]

  about American yes and some guy says [TS]

  like the most violent the most violent [TS]

  movie ever made [TS]

  it's only only a teenager would watch [TS]

  this movie and then he turns the camera [TS]

  is like only a dumb teenager and I was [TS]

  like excuse me sir i was that teenager [TS]

  and you tested very well and Red Dawn [TS]

  you know let don was a movie that the [TS]

  the plot of red dawn had occurred to us [TS]

  all for 15 years you couldn't have grown [TS]

  up during the cold war without imagining [TS]

  because we all saw the day after and [TS]

  we've been in the day after was was [TS]

  pandering to an idea that we'd already [TS]

  had a million times like if if we bases [TS]

  apocalypse porn [TS]

  yeah if if nuclear war is inevitable [TS]

  then your options are either you are [TS]

  vaporized in the first instance and have [TS]

  no a have no awareness of it or you are [TS]

  chemically poisoned and die a gruesome [TS]

  death in a in a burned-out basically [TS]

  basically looking like a non-player [TS]

  character in a terrible D&D campaign [TS]

  right or your third option is somehow [TS]

  you survived it either because you live [TS]

  way out in Montana or because you are a [TS]

  mutant and you have a that you are [TS]

  immune to to radiation or the radiation [TS]

  only makes you stronger or something and [TS]

  then what they didn't exploit that full [TS]

  but of the three options when you're [TS]

  let's say you're a thirteen-year-old [TS]

  hear your three options either you are [TS]

  vaporized instantly and you don't know [TS]

  anything [TS]

  or you get sick and die in short order [TS]

  or maybe you become a mutant rebel [TS]

  leader which one which idea are you [TS]

  going to spend more time thinking about [TS]

  ya and so I mean but but but realizing [TS]

  now that red dawn that the logic of red [TS]

  dawn is powering our whole generation [TS]

  where we no longer have a Soviet threat [TS]

  people are able to insert whatever [TS]

  threat [TS]

  whatever the threat de jure is into the [TS]

  into that function machine of like [TS]

  here's my red dawn function machine i [TS]

  don't care what the what the [TS]

  the reason is that I end up having to [TS]

  move out to the grid and defend my land [TS]

  but I and i'll put a new thing in there [TS]

  as suits but what my fantasy is is that [TS]

  is that [TS]

  is that [TS]

  some like new world order some big [TS]

  overarching power comes after me and I [TS]

  have to king of the sewer dwelling [TS]

  Morlocks yeah right I i I'm king of the [TS]

  more the moment for the or the like [TS]

  country people or whatever and we fight [TS]

  we fight a war of resistance is [TS]

  fascinating I mean I wonder I wonder how [TS]

  much my own fantasy life is still locked [TS]

  in a red dawn John you can tell people [TS]

  today about the eighties because it's [TS]

  it's so frankly unbelievable something [TS]

  we talked about probably two or three [TS]

  times that I hear people talk about this [TS]

  and everybody slept this off like it [TS]

  wasn't a real thing but the absolute [TS]

  obsession that everything was about [TS]

  Satanism for a while [TS]

  was it was everywhere whether that was [TS]

  dnd or whether that was judas priest or [TS]

  whatever was and but there were people [TS]

  on TV shows that my grandmother watch [TS]

  the SAT there and played records [TS]

  backwards because they thought it was [TS]

  really it was really telling you [TS]

  remember when every day care in the [TS]

  country was actually a Satanist sex ring [TS]

  yeah that was like little old ladies [TS]

  were raping our babies have one story is [TS]

  say so chilling about that with a mother [TS]

  and the son at that place the famous [TS]

  case absolutely chilling but you know [TS]

  it's another one of these hysteria is [TS]

  where every once in a while the village [TS]

  has to just completely freaked out about [TS]

  the other and then just insert you know [TS]

  name of other here [TS]

  whatever happened to Satanists I imagine [TS]

  there are more sickness [TS]

  I mean just going on the number of [TS]

  people I see wearing pentagram necklaces [TS]

  had comicon I think irony has been hard [TS]

  on Satanist it's a Satan Satanism is a [TS]

  it's not very hit I mean it was hit but [TS]

  there was one thing to be like Anton [TS]

  LaVey guy in the sixties and seventies [TS]

  or something I mean there's one thing to [TS]

  be like into the magics back then and [TS]

  today I think it's it seems a little i [TS]

  don't know i think if it seems ludicrous [TS]

  remember the Eddie Murphy movie where he [TS]

  went to Tibet or yeah the golden child [TS]

  the golden child right and just barely [TS]

  hand and like I or maybe it was nepal [TS]

  know i think it was Tibet and and he was [TS]

  he was trying to s [TS]

  chords the the new lama who was just a [TS]

  little boy and the Lama had to get back [TS]

  to Tibet for some reason but then Satan [TS]

  was involved what somehow and actually [TS]

  according to Hoyle Satan well that's the [TS]

  thing like there were some bad men who [TS]

  were trying to capture the golden child [TS]

  because the golden child would someone [TS]

  at capturing him in a giant bird cage [TS]

  was going to help them advance their [TS]

  evil starting a fever dream at what did [TS]

  within and i highly recommend everybody [TS]

  watch the golden child again it's a [TS]

  great Eddie Murphy vehicle and coming to [TS]

  America and butt but like somewhere [TS]

  along the line in the film i think [TS]

  probably when the screenwriters what [TS]

  would like the the first run of cocaine [TS]

  had run out and they they were like you [TS]

  know they were like seven pizza boxes [TS]

  deep and they were just like okay all [TS]

  right now what happens well write these [TS]

  guys are these bad guys are actually [TS]

  Satan and demons their demons right and [TS]

  then the chief bad guy is the devil and [TS]

  I was and I was like I even remember it [TS]

  watching this movie as a teenager and [TS]

  and asking like is the devil part of the [TS]

  like cosmology of tibetan buddhism I [TS]

  don't think of it being a real demon [TS]

  centered that sounds like i like i like [TS]

  high school creative writing thing but [TS]

  like the bad guy is a real and different [TS]

  eons i think yeah right right right [TS]

  about this movie like really spiraled [TS]

  out into into a world of it got a cup [TS]

  bury it in a way with it was I don't [TS]

  remember which one came first i think [TS]

  maybe golden child but there it got into [TS]

  some real big trouble in little china [TS]

  territory where you gotta watch that you [TS]

  keep reminding me i got to watch you [TS]

  know where there's some supernatural [TS]

  powers that that maybe hint at it it's [TS]

  that whole ladies thing where it's like [TS]

  there's a there's a really bad guy here [TS]

  who has some Anor [TS]

  most power like he's eternal but somehow [TS]

  but the stakes of this film are are [TS]

  pretty small like like this this eternal [TS]

  Chinese demon that means to marry a girl [TS]

  with green eyes [TS]

  ok that seems like something he could [TS]

  have done over the last where's here's [TS]

  the thing i'm did you ever see the [TS]

  original Rosemary's Baby the Roman [TS]

  Polanski Rosemary's Baby [TS]

  no because you know how I am about scary [TS]

  movies [TS]

  it's the thing that's much too probably [TS]

  the last three or four months and i have [TS]

  to say it's it's so awfully good and it [TS]

  is so chilling and here's part of what [TS]

  there's something odd about this great i [TS]

  mean there's so many layers especially [TS]

  once you got a kid it gets interviewed a [TS]

  double maybe well that's the thing and [TS]

  this is what makes it great so if there [TS]

  was a guy with a pitchfork and horns [TS]

  running around going teehee it would be [TS]

  silly but it's all of these people who [TS]

  are doing creepy stuff there's little [TS]

  the two big parts of it three first [TS]

  pregnancy okay anytime you get pregnancy [TS]

  and what happens in that so crazy insane [TS]

  body you know destroying process that [TS]

  are interesting [TS]

  yes and then BES you do have these [TS]

  people who appear to be you know [TS]

  involved in some pretty bad business [TS]

  with Satan but finally there is no like [TS]

  guy with horns in it and that's what [TS]

  makes it work [TS]

  she even today is you don't need the [TS]

  devil to be real in order for Satan's to [TS]

  be scary because if they think that [TS]

  they're working and and they're they're [TS]

  basically passing as people who are just [TS]

  your nice old people neighbors know Ruth [TS]

  Gordon last person in the world you [TS]

  think would be a crazy same person right [TS]

  well yeah but what they look that's [TS]

  that's what makes that effective is not [TS]

  too on-the-nose you know what I mean it [TS]

  was saving as a lot scarier when you [TS]

  can't see him well and we're in this [TS]

  case like it kind of I mean like their [TS]

  stuff that happens before you should see [TS]

  it's going ok I'll watchin watchin yeah [TS]

  yeah but that's a in that case get men [TS]

  speaking finally speaking of the Dalai [TS]

  Lama big hitter the lama to me saying [TS]

  that red dawn like makes kids want to go [TS]

  fight the cold war is like saying [TS]

  Caddyshack makes people want to play [TS]

  golf [TS]

  it's like mrs. what it is about the [TS]

  movie that's so compelling and in and [TS]

  Red Dawn that's a big part of it but I [TS]

  mean it read on is about a more basic [TS]

  and little Lord of the Flies maybe but [TS]

  it's really about you know what happens [TS]

  when the parents go away and wanting to [TS]

  be part and wanting to be an important [TS]

  part of something important to not just [TS]

  be a cog has all this theoretical stuff [TS]

  that might happen in the future for them [TS]

  to really need you to save the day and [TS]

  your special high school skills might [TS]

  actually be useful for some reason that [TS]

  that to me is what makes it great i mean [TS]

  yeah i was certainly timely and was done [TS]

  that way for a reason but I don't think [TS]

  it was primarily about politics [TS]

  I think it's about 12 blow shit up [TS]

  absolutely well wanting yeah wanting the [TS]

  other the desire that every kid has to [TS]

  every to have your parents all die i [TS]

  mean it's it's like I think in eight you [TS]

  don't want you don't want to kill your [TS]

  parents you don't want to be responsible [TS]

  for them dying but you would secretly [TS]

  kind of love it if they just all died [TS]

  some how you were forced to remake the [TS]

  world in your own sort of people with [TS]

  your teenage wisdom to to remake the [TS]

  world as you as it should be could be I [TS]

  mean that the amazing thing about red [TS]

  dawn to me is that jennifer grey I [TS]

  forgot jennifer grey with and of course [TS]

  you love Jennifer fucking grey is in [TS]

  that movie [TS]

  Jennifer a classic classic jennifer grey [TS]

  that's right not to Jennifer grand new [TS]

  ginger oil and like no buddy there's no [TS]

  kissing in it like at one point somebody [TS]

  makes like a gesture to jennifer grey [TS]

  that is immediately like she rebuffs it [TS]

  as a delegate tough she's a tough girl [TS]

  with no the takes no shit off anybody [TS]

  and like here these teenagers boys and [TS]

  girls together and it's a very you know [TS]

  it's a very it comported with my [TS]

  understanding of sexual politics even in [TS]

  the eighties people think I think a lot [TS]

  of young people feel like they're the [TS]

  first ones to ever think about feminism [TS]

  or gay rights but of course in the [TS]

  eighties we were [TS]

  we were like soaking in it right [TS]

  I mean that was the that was the [TS]

  atmosphere that we had been raised into [TS]

  and we were maybe a a roar less it the [TS]

  the idea of what was that what was to [TS]

  come was less codified but we were [TS]

  wrestling with all those same ideas and [TS]

  and that was what I imagined would [TS]

  happen you know if I fall the adults [TS]

  were killed and we were living in a [TS]

  post-apocalyptic apocalyptic world it [TS]

  was it was clear to me that it was not [TS]

  going to get the system that we built [TS]

  out of the ashes was not going to be the [TS]

  old patriarchal system it was going to [TS]

  be a new we were going to make a new [TS]

  world and it was going to be one where [TS]

  where there was a kind of equality that [TS]

  wasn't possible and that at the time we [TS]

  couldn't imagine how we would get from [TS]

  where we were to where we were going [TS]

  it seemed like maybe all the adults [TS]

  would have to die for us to to build the [TS]

  world we imagined but but it was it was [TS]

  a much more egalitarian future the Red [TS]

  Dawn future the posts we all knew that [TS]

  the Cold War was was bananas and it was [TS]

  sort of evidence that adults were banana [TS]

  all I also like all teenagers we knew [TS]

  that the system was basically corrupt [TS]

  and fix the lines current state [TS]

  yeah but lie again like all teenagers we [TS]

  could not possibly imagine that really [TS]

  what all it would take was years [TS]

  okay to get there by writing your [TS]

  congressman yeah 20 years from now we [TS]

  would be the adults and most of us would [TS]

  have survived to adulthood with some of [TS]

  those some of those new ideas intact [TS]

  I mean hard too hard to imagine that [TS]

  that would be an interesting reading for [TS]

  a piece of paper the you know the [TS]

  ultimately like feminist egalitarian [TS]

  under message of red dawn [TS]

  don't think I don't think that i'm going [TS]

  to write that paper because i'm not [TS]

  trying to graduate from about that about [TS]

  that George Hamilton know huh oh my god [TS]

  oh my god it was so wonderful to see old [TS]

  Hollywood for a second just completely [TS]

  unchecked he's a beast he's sucking on a [TS]

  cigar and he's like he said what I said [TS]

  how many hookers can we get out to palm [TS]

  springs before the end of the day you [TS]

  know it's just like no motorcycles no [TS]

  more than some no more women i'm taking [TS]

  them all away [TS]

  he sent me an email or a hundred [TS]

  telegrams so it's so great so like who [TS]

  knew but of course we all knew it's just [TS]

  nobody nobody goes on record really just [TS]

  talking that way except except for our [TS]

  man here see the Knievel is that one of [TS]

  those move those movies that is referred [TS]

  to in the documentary well there's [TS]

  there's an evil case first time to get [TS]

  into this [TS]

  there's one Evel Knievel movie the early [TS]

  one is the one that middle road on which [TS]

  is the one starring starring George [TS]

  Hamilton and i really love any kind of a [TS]

  seventies promo reel or somebody's in [TS]

  like fully decked out as the character [TS]

  but then comes out and talk to the [TS]

  people in the theater [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah hi I judge myself not [TS]

  evil Knievel there's another one called [TS]

  Viva Knievel starring evil i think it's [TS]

  called evil Knievel starring Evel [TS]

  Knievel co-starring oh god who is it [TS]

  it's a gene is a dancer engine a out the [TS]

  first air but Gino Ginger Rogers hello [TS]

  Gina jelly bean Autry Kelly Kelly's in [TS]

  it [TS]

  ya know what really yeah and helped [TS]

  people move Evel Knievel movie starts [TS]

  out with evil it starts out with the [TS]

  inside of an orphanage run by nuns and [TS]

  Evel Knievel has broken into the [TS]

  orphanage full of nuns in the middle of [TS]

  the night to hand out Evel Knievel [TS]

  branded toys to all the kids so sure of [TS]

  course that you stop with all the time I [TS]

  don't have the answer was an orphan the [TS]

  past [TS]

  John Evel Knievel I killed my parents to [TS]

  be here [TS]

  how many nights that I wish I could wake [TS]

  up and see Evel Knievel waiting for me [TS]

  with the toy is full it says to standing [TS]

  over me with one of those like Evel [TS]

  Knievel on a motorcycle we lined it up i [TS]

  love that thing [TS]

  great i was obsessed with him i'm kinda [TS]

  close to later JJ arms of course i was [TS]

  totally obsessed with JJ arms [TS]

  how many times did you jump your dirt [TS]

  bike over some in you know something [TS]

  like drainage culverts and an eight inch [TS]

  scar on my left leg that much my [TS]

  favorite was we built a we built a cart [TS]

  out of a wagon like a rocket car out of [TS]

  a wagon and supply calvin and hobbes [TS]

  yeah yeah and and we we started down the [TS]

  and we had open culverts in our [TS]

  neighborhood we started down the hill [TS]

  and the when we couldn't steer the thing [TS]

  because we had been taken but taking all [TS]

  the steering controls and rebuilt them [TS]

  and they broke instantly and this thing [TS]

  went down into the ditch and slammed [TS]

  into the cement culvert at a high rate [TS]

  of speed and I mean there's blood [TS]

  everywhere my blood everybody's blood it [TS]

  was a pretty bad but it was basically [TS]

  the Snake River Canyon jump [TS]

  uh-huh smaller scale oh my god is to [TS]

  love to watch this movies him crashing [TS]

  caesars palace on the king's island he [TS]

  didn't pick up the Kings on right by my [TS]

  house on Harley Davidsons like these [TS]

  guys that are flying through the sky on [TS]

  on their on their you know kawasaki 250 [TS]

  or whatever kind of like like trying to [TS]

  come something in a Cadillac yeah [TS]

  basically a headstrong that it's heavy [TS]

  very 2,500 pound like welded steel with [TS]

  with you know with kind of pumped his [TS]

  cds and yamaha or something [TS]

  well it was it was the USA man his [TS]

  fucking costume was an American flag a [TS]

  sparkly American flag everything I own [TS]

  is right blue it's not going to drive a [TS]

  goddamn kawasaki come on [TS]

  yeah Evel Knievel right there the name [TS]

  America very fucking name [TS]

  it's an anagram of america with a V [TS]

  instead of a w-4 [TS]

  is evil and then of course he moved to [TS]

  Florida and he got arrested at [TS]

  Bennigan's near our house for being a [TS]

  guy up with a baseball bat see that at [TS]

  that they don't make them like that [TS]

  George Hamilton ever did that I hope [TS]

  they say that about me one day [TS]

  whatever happened John robbery I just [TS]

  got arrested at Bennigan's in florida [TS]

  for beating up again with a baseball bat [TS]

  again [TS]

  hi there you go [TS]

  yeah those that was growing what's a lot [TS]

  of handjobs [TS]