0:00:00hello hi John
0:00:07I'm Merlin has gone good good good good
0:00:13are you going
0:00:14I didn't get hella have a dusky voice
0:00:17from having cold
0:00:18oh you doing a husky voice sound esky
0:00:20you do you sound like a stage manager of
0:00:23a southern theatre company
0:00:25listen I'm glad y'all gonna be out here
0:00:27we're gonna need to get them max and we
0:00:29need to take a sweep out that whole area
0:00:31for y'all get out there and sweep up
0:00:33that whole area that take and take and I
0:00:37I grew up did you do with that was that
0:00:39in parlance when you were a child take
0:00:41and take and is that purely a southern
0:00:43nothing
0:00:44yeah I don't know what that means a
0:00:45unique you any you need well first of
0:00:48all you always say you need to anything
0:00:49you need to take move them boxes
0:00:51otay can move the boxes no one here who
0:00:54didn't speak that way up here i may just
0:00:57do this all the time but my favorite is
0:00:59the kind of southern family has a
0:01:01voicemail desk like that but a little
0:01:02bit of family
0:01:03emily is permanently family now and not
0:01:06its kind of Georgia think yeah right
0:01:09sure that there's a there's that there's
0:01:10that that southern there's that southern
0:01:13twang that almost sounds like like
0:01:15Brooklyn nasal you know yeah yeah yeahs
0:01:19the it's it's it's sort of almost a
0:01:23jersey squeak when you got me thinking
0:01:26about this many many episodes ago
0:01:28talking about how many have taking and
0:01:30taking them
0:01:31sorry I'm sec you got me thinking about
0:01:35this with the number of people in the
0:01:37South there from you know the British
0:01:39Isles from Scotland right in Ireland and
0:01:42now it's funny I do kind of notice the
0:01:46similarities may be funded to have a
0:01:48language person sit down taking taking
0:01:49sit down with you and not be able to
0:01:52illustrate those similarities i would
0:01:54like to sit with a language person and
0:01:56like taking sit and talk to take and sit
0:01:58with the language person for a long time
0:02:01i would love to talk to a language
0:02:03person and I love language people you
0:02:05know that harder
0:02:06my mother the pedantic people that are
0:02:08out there language people bother me in
0:02:10the least
0:02:11oh yeah the real language people mmm i
0:02:15love language stuff I do too i really
0:02:17like the language stuff i hope my
0:02:20daughter loves words how could she not
0:02:23well I am I don't even know the word
0:02:25probably hyperlink google mega mega
0:02:29lingual look it wasn't nice laminate
0:02:33word for literally never stops talking
0:02:37mondo Mart mondo verbal yeah you know
0:02:41there's not that many things I I don't
0:02:42really care how she turns out by a large
0:02:44but I i hope that she hopes she likes
0:02:46music and how she likes words
0:02:47yeah we got a lot of words going on
0:02:49around here we're trying to get wordy
0:02:51were just kids were d is a worthy little
0:02:55baby and we're trying to you know I one
0:02:57of the things that one of the things
0:02:59that made me who I am because that a
0:03:02pretty young age I think probably like
0:03:06pre memory i realized that
0:03:10yeah they listening was was the secret
0:03:14like listening
0:03:16Oh overhearing adults like listening in
0:03:20on adult conversations was going to be
0:03:23the was going to be where all the real
0:03:25information was exchanged you know and
0:03:28so I was a not an eavesdropper but i
0:03:31would your kid right nobody expects that
0:03:33you know what's going on i would just go
0:03:34sit on somebody's lap and just sit
0:03:36quietly and listen to the adults talk
0:03:38they kind of forget your they're
0:03:39absolutely forget I think they get used
0:03:42to i know this is true for me
0:03:43we're like I think you get so used to
0:03:46kick it with little kids when they hear
0:03:49anything they start remarking on it or
0:03:51they try to change the subject or they
0:03:52wanna cookie or something for little
0:03:54kids around it doesn't say anything they
0:03:55could pick up a lot of information
0:03:57well it worked for me until I was about
0:03:5915 i will just come sit in the room and
0:04:01sit quietly and listen to them and I you
0:04:04know I I knew enough to know that my
0:04:08contribution was not valued my is when
0:04:14they were talking about politics or or
0:04:16economics or something I died
0:04:18don't have any doctor but I would just
0:04:19sit and listen I listened until I
0:04:22listened until I didn't understand and
0:04:24then I listen more and so what I'm
0:04:26trying I'm trying to impart that to my
0:04:28daughter because it's a because it's the
0:04:30core of my understanding of the world
0:04:32right and my little girl right now
0:04:34thinks that heard the first thought that
0:04:36comes into her head is the most
0:04:37important thought that anyone's ever had
0:04:39and we could be you know we could be
0:04:41standing in a house that's on fire
0:04:42talking about exit routes and she would
0:04:46say an orange is like an apple and I
0:04:49think that that you know we should all
0:04:51stop what we're doing and and and
0:04:53appraise the wisdom of that idea so I'm
0:04:56trying to explain to her but basically
0:04:58through through enforcement but she
0:05:01needs to shut up just shut up and listen
0:05:04who but it's for her own good should get
0:05:07a lot more intelligence that was right
0:05:08you just after shall gather more
0:05:10intelligence it's how you gather
0:05:12intelligence refresh shut up i think
0:05:14i've done that with well you know for
0:05:16some reason don't think of Daniel
0:05:17Plainview you know that movie can watch
0:05:19because the music that with a little kid
0:05:22and and whatever Daniel speaks his son
0:05:24listens his son sits there in silence
0:05:26and is clearly listening to everything
0:05:28that he's saying a man that can imagine
0:05:31have a little kid that would just sit
0:05:33there and I certainly think about what
0:05:35you had to say you know that's my dream
0:05:37all i want to do is teach all i want to
0:05:40do a child but right now she is
0:05:43resistant to being educated by me which
0:05:46is why I'm I'm well I'm taking my show
0:05:48on the road
0:05:49who gonna go teach the town it's about
0:05:52something i heard about talk about that
0:05:53yeah I I am i mean i i've said this with
0:05:56em I want to say with Jasper truthfully
0:05:59I you know when I say that my daughter I
0:06:01don't know how to get her into the
0:06:03please and thank you brute but i really
0:06:05believe in the please and thank you root
0:06:07it served me well i learned i think i
0:06:09told you this at a young age it became
0:06:11somewhat obsessed with etiquette
0:06:12uh-huh and you know I was a very lonely
0:06:14kid now would read any reference book
0:06:16that I could put my hands on
0:06:17did you read that Miss Manners now she's
0:06:20a poser but that Miss Manners book that
0:06:22first one she put out that's like that's
0:06:24like six inches fat for me that was Amy
0:06:26Vanderbilt o.a.r Evander bill yeah yeah
0:06:29the week
0:06:30advocate told you this was before I
0:06:32think it's either Amy Vanderbilt or who
0:06:34is the other really famous etiquette
0:06:35person
0:06:36well what's above yeah the other one
0:06:39post Emily Post Emily Post we had a
0:06:42hardcover etiquette book at our house I
0:06:45don't know how my fat it's always
0:06:46interesting to ponder like how anything
0:06:48ended up in your family like sometimes
0:06:50you look back you like what do we have
0:06:51that in our house that's weird
0:06:52and we have this book that was like you
0:06:54say was it seriously was at least like
0:06:55three-and-a-half inches thick
0:06:57hardcover book from the early sixties
0:06:59with illustrations by mr. andy warhol
0:07:00interestingly know I really yeah yeah
0:07:03backgrounds just an illustrator and but
0:07:05i read that thing man
0:07:07I I knew from tiny Forks you know I
0:07:10don't know everything I knew about like
0:07:12you do your IUD your napkin and fold in
0:07:15half for dinner you folded in quarters
0:07:17for lunch and you all this stuff
0:07:18backwards and forwards you know like you
0:07:20I knew how to make a UH Hospital corners
0:07:22on a bed that's right you all this stuff
0:07:24when I was like nine got weird you have
0:07:26to know how to make Hospital corners if
0:07:27you're ever going to learn to
0:07:28short-sheet about see nobody gets their
0:07:30bed short-sheeted anymore and I think
0:07:32something's lost people don't understand
0:07:34education is not a buffet you have to go
0:07:38in and work through the courses you can
0:07:40start with the forks on the outside you
0:07:41move in that education works
0:07:43you understand that reference i can help
0:07:44you looking at my looking at my
0:07:45bookshelf right here next to my desk i
0:07:48have here the there the first four books
0:07:51of the New York Times guide to essential
0:07:54knowledge who which is a 3-inch wide
0:07:57book the second book the and Landers
0:07:59encyclopedia
0:08:01haha whoa is that you need a little
0:08:03guidance is good at index and Landers
0:08:06encyclopedia a to z and this book was
0:08:09published in 1978 cock stone-cutting
0:08:13page 128 a busy as you know up to
0:08:17nineteen seventy-eight the second or the
0:08:19third book is the readers encyclopedia
0:08:21edited by william rose
0:08:24uh what is his name of william rose
0:08:29bennett and then the the fourth book I
0:08:30swear to you my friend is Miss Manners
0:08:33guide to excruciating Lee correct
0:08:35behavior nice
0:08:37and you know Miss Manners sure she she
0:08:41was a she was a you know what just ice
0:08:43and come lately i spoke I spoken
0:08:45advisedly and for that i apologize i've
0:08:48always enjoyed her most on talk shows I
0:08:50thought she was a wonderful talk show
0:08:51guest
0:08:51she's a very witty writer and she makes
0:08:54a proxy to she's pretty foxy and she
0:08:56makes the she makes the etiquette seem a
0:09:00mission its it goes down with this spoon
0:09:03full of sugar and she can but she can be
0:09:05a bitch to and that the game man
0:09:10don't hate the player you know you would
0:09:13think in high school that I would have
0:09:14been sitting around just learning to
0:09:16roll doobies and and flicking my
0:09:19switchblade into a log but in fact you
0:09:23would think i was reading Miss Manners
0:09:26appreciating me correct bigger
0:09:28front-to-back I find those books
0:09:30extremely calming I think I used to
0:09:32really like because it might somewhat
0:09:34turbulent and we're childhood I i think
0:09:37i really enjoyed things like the Brady
0:09:39Bunch as a cultural touchstone and i
0:09:41enjoyed reference books i enjoyed things
0:09:43that showed that there was a gentle
0:09:46order to life
0:09:47yes yeah I really really did I think I
0:09:50still part of me that looks at that
0:09:52doesn't just kind of calculator honestly
0:09:53there's a part of me that says like wow
0:09:55you know ideologies to really work for
0:09:57us well in the sense that like the sense
0:10:00that Miss Manners had which was like oh
0:10:02dear oh my dear did you really just fold
0:10:08your napkin across your did you really
0:10:11just tuck your napkin into your shirt
0:10:12oh oh darling and she could just hear
0:10:16her like gently like and I don't think
0:10:20she would even reach out and take the
0:10:21napkin away herself she would always
0:10:23keep her hands to herself but she would
0:10:26just indicate to you she is the napkin
0:10:28tongue that was provided shape and and
0:10:31the feeling like oh there's a right way
0:10:33there's a right way the wrong way and
0:10:35and like
0:10:38I i was sitting up at a fancy dinner the
0:10:40other day and I had my elbow on the
0:10:42table
0:10:43all I still felt that when i do that
0:10:44stuff and I LT and I felt bad I felt bad
0:10:48and then i realized that i was i was
0:10:52going to keep my elbow there i was going
0:10:54to keep it there knowingly foo and I
0:10:57because because i had a mind to and that
0:11:05if there was you know if there was any
0:11:07rogue at this dinner party who could
0:11:10have a mind to keep his elbow on the
0:11:12table it was gonna be me but you had to
0:11:15know you didn't i mean i had a
0:11:17constellation of of thoughts rolling
0:11:20through my head and that you know that i
0:11:23was somewhat playing the ribbon
0:11:26riverboat captain by putting my elbow up
0:11:29there and leaving it there and that the
0:11:32problem was there was no one else in the
0:11:34room that was even that could even tisk
0:11:37tisk at me so I was making appreciate
0:11:39what a what a subtle key that was for
0:11:41you to make that shits decision to have
0:11:43a mind to put 100 up there
0:11:45no I was your ID as man you know exactly
0:11:47what you're doing exactly i was dying to
0:11:49be tisk tisk by somebody so that i could
0:11:52twirl the end of my mustache and like
0:11:56dip dip my white dinner jacket in the
0:11:59consommé but no-one tisk tisk to this
0:12:04is sickening
0:12:04no one knows up there's no one knows no
0:12:06one knows that you're doing that you're
0:12:07sure that you're playing at social
0:12:10social cultural mores no one even knows
0:12:12that anymore
0:12:13you can't even if you can't even respond
0:12:15stuff because nobody nobody knows the
0:12:17tune okay i'm gonna give you and give
0:12:19you two bullets on this and this side I
0:12:21honestly feel that I should feel
0:12:23terrible about having said this bullet
0:12:25number 12 my daughter but it's really
0:12:26true which is first of all the please
0:12:28and thank you think it's such a simple
0:12:31bit of social lubricant and nobody no
0:12:35matter what even if you're being like a
0:12:37a photo civil British person like it's
0:12:40still nice to say please and thank you
0:12:42it's not just call someone sir or ma'am
0:12:45or miss or something that gets really
0:12:46really nice but I've told you the truth
0:12:47I said I said you know Ellie you will
0:12:50get away with so much in life if you can
0:12:53learn to genuinely say please and thank
0:12:55you for things because people if you
0:12:56want something done ask for it as a
0:12:57favor and somebody's much more likely to
0:12:59do it could you please pass me the salt
0:13:01it sounds so much better than give me
0:13:03the salt and really does
0:13:04that's that's I mean and you know I mean
0:13:06truthfully I think it's just something
0:13:08it's going to be a while before she
0:13:09learns that that's just a nice thing to
0:13:11do and that she'll appreciate it too and
0:13:13it but you know honestly you'd get away
0:13:15with a lot but bullet number two this is
0:13:18huge and I did not get this I i was
0:13:20looking through I was like I know you're
0:13:22a Buddhist it was like looking through
0:13:24the text you know I i'm looking for the
0:13:26part about how to lose my ego but not
0:13:27learning that the real point that the
0:13:30brutal Battle my boot of them
0:13:32that's right that's what is that number
0:13:3312 wrong 12 huh
0:13:36I look there get him up there looking
0:13:37back don't talk about bike club that's
0:13:39number 16 there are no harmony but uh
0:13:43this is Africa where i first read this
0:13:46but I promise is one of those things
0:13:47that probably had to read 11 times
0:13:49before really sunk in and this is what
0:13:51makes with Judith Judith manners
0:13:53what's-her-name you know the leading up
0:13:55yeah miss manners but dude Martin cheers
0:13:57me up you're just matters is that you
0:13:59learn that the point of etiquette
0:14:01I'm going to say this slowly and
0:14:02carefully even though I know you know
0:14:03this for our listeners the point of
0:14:06etiquette is not to be fancy
0:14:08it's not to be prescriptive it's not to
0:14:11have a bunch of rules for no reason
0:14:12other than to try and make people feel
0:14:14bad no quite the contrary and take it
0:14:16exists to make true etiquette when you
0:14:19get down to the real like like black
0:14:22diamond level of etiquette
0:14:23it's not about rules it's about doing
0:14:25everything you can to make other people
0:14:27feel comfortable
0:14:28that's right and that's what people
0:14:30don't understand if all they do is read
0:14:32the rules and correct people on whether
0:14:33using the right tertiary lobster fork
0:14:36then they're missing the point the point
0:14:37is not to make somebody feel bad about
0:14:39their fork
0:14:39the point is to now we know that at this
0:14:41point in the meal if we've all read the
0:14:42same book we know which ones that these
0:14:44to use and we we can enjoy this but
0:14:46ultimately it's not making somebody feel
0:14:47welcome and not make it a big deal
0:14:49even you know
0:14:50even if they put a glass in your table
0:14:51is not a coaster like find a way to make
0:14:53them feel at ease about that you can
0:14:55make them feel at ease but you're both
0:14:56trying to make each other feel at ease
0:14:58and that's what etiquette is that it
0:15:00that is the that is the judo of Miss
0:15:02Manners because I was trying to get out
0:15:05of a second ago
0:15:06not only was she not reach out to end
0:15:09and like touch your napkin but she would
0:15:11she would see would somehow make it seem
0:15:15like a your idea and that she that you
0:15:19know that she was there to help you or
0:15:21she was there to the as you're saying
0:15:23make it easier gently got my toward this
0:15:27thing that's very sensible get you a
0:15:28coaster
0:15:29oh let me help you you know she it's a
0:15:32varied it's a very gentle but firm kind
0:15:36of knowledge of the way things are and
0:15:38you're right it's like it's like the
0:15:40rules of language with this debate is
0:15:42happening all the time why why it
0:15:45doesn't language why does an English now
0:15:47just become a free-for-all why why do we
0:15:50follow these archaic grammar and
0:15:52spelling rules wide why don't be
0:15:55everybody just be talking how they like
0:15:57be and you know of course i am on the
0:16:02side of I am on the side like like the
0:16:05members of the french academy i believe
0:16:07that the language evolved just fine
0:16:10right up until the point that i decided
0:16:12that it should stop the who but no i
0:16:14mean i love i love the evolution of
0:16:16English but the core rules
0:16:19I adhere to and I espouse yep and I mean
0:16:25I think we can all anybody you know is
0:16:28done a little bit of book-learning may
0:16:30even been to college will appreciate the
0:16:31fact that the language evolves it always
0:16:33has evolved it will evolve but you know
0:16:35II it let's put it in the simplest way
0:16:37possible
0:16:38it's nice to know the rules before you
0:16:40break them and its really nice to know
0:16:42the rules before you unknowingly break
0:16:43them because all the older I get and the
0:16:46more I don't always speak with precision
0:16:49but when I do speak with precision and
0:16:51helps me think with precision because
0:16:53words mean things and this these five
0:16:56words that people use almost
0:16:57interchangeably really mean different
0:17:00things and the subtlety of the
0:17:02differences in their me
0:17:03thing is really amplified when you use
0:17:04them correctly somebody something that
0:17:07is I think it really does matter it
0:17:08doesn't matter
0:17:09somebody asked me the other day you know
0:17:11i'm somewhat not notorious but it
0:17:14Phyllis naughty not even infamous but
0:17:17there-there water but they don't even
0:17:19think lauded that I there are three to
0:17:22five percent of the words in English
0:17:26that I pretty clearly mispronounced and
0:17:33someone said to me the other day like
0:17:37you always say that word wrong and you
0:17:41know that it's wrong because like other
0:17:46people have surely corrected you why do
0:17:50you do it
0:17:50why do you still say that and so many
0:17:53other words like wrong and I thought
0:17:59about it and I said well I do not prefer
0:18:02the way that everyone else pronounces it
0:18:04and and she said but I mean that's how
0:18:11it's pronounced and I said but I'd I
0:18:13just don't prefer it be something
0:18:16borrowed the equal a little bit at the
0:18:18word she was referring to was the word
0:18:21that everyone I guess agrees is
0:18:24pronounced comely her which I do not
0:18:28prefer i prefer to say calmly she sounds
0:18:33much nicer she's a comb lee young woman
0:18:35comely does not sound like a compliment
0:18:38come way is a disgusting word coldly is
0:18:42a beautiful work and it is not a comely
0:18:46young woman selling the victim of
0:18:47unexpected bukkake that's right a comb
0:18:50lee young woman is the opposite of a
0:18:52homely young woman she's calmly that's
0:18:56good and that it is how I've always
0:18:58preferred it is your prerogative and
0:19:01that's right and so and so when people
0:19:03say comely i flinch a little roux and
0:19:07when I say calmly it usually like around
0:19:11and this is the problem because around
0:19:14the room it takes people a second
0:19:16to figure out what i'm saying let the
0:19:21guys they gotta think a little piglets
0:19:23right that's a little mobile forgive me
0:19:25I made you think a little bit and so my
0:19:28hat there are so many words like that in
0:19:30my like private lexicon that I just
0:19:34mispronounced because my pronunciation
0:19:38is the one I prefer yeah I i can't
0:19:41remember if I invented this probably
0:19:43hurt read this somewhere grudge
0:19:44pronouncing em hard to see you
0:19:46oh you're very good at that I think I
0:19:49care of some things that I will always
0:19:52say a certain way and I'm happy that
0:19:53other people are starting to to pick it
0:19:55up
0:19:55artisanal are saying I don't know it's a
0:19:58artisinal that's just that's that's
0:19:59that's that's disgusting
0:20:01are you saying that it's not artisinal
0:20:03it all baked goods artisinal otherwise
0:20:05it wouldn't be baked goods what was
0:20:06wrong with you know I really you you've
0:20:09hired artisans is that what you did you
0:20:11hired an artisan know you never hire
0:20:13nervous and you know you hired some you
0:20:15got to come in and make your buns
0:20:16you don't know what an artisans there we
0:20:18don't know it feels themselves that's
0:20:20right it's like you can call yourself a
0:20:21poet you can see you're right verse but
0:20:23should never say you write poetry
0:20:24yeah let your teacher let your teacher
0:20:27praised you don't press yourself
0:20:29yes you know what we should write a book
0:20:31John I don't want to make a big deal
0:20:32about it but I'm just saying there's a
0:20:34lot of ways that we can help people but
0:20:36what I don't understand for my as far as
0:20:38i can tell from my whole life i have
0:20:39said saw Squatch that's it that is the
0:20:43received pronunciation that i received
0:20:45sauce one Sasquatch during that during
0:20:48the Bigfoot during the Bigfoot flare-ups
0:20:50in the sounds of the seventies Bigfoot
0:20:52flare-ups that's right there had been
0:20:54Bigfoot's before big feet before
0:20:56sorry bro she might think it's big speed
0:20:58big it's pig's feet justice gentle
0:21:01person
0:21:02Bigfoot's big feets with had been seen
0:21:05historically and then there was a rash
0:21:07there was a rash there was a there was a
0:21:09rash their members and underage boys in
0:21:11search of in search of hundred percent
0:21:13with the Bigfoot screaming in the dark
0:21:15and now the screen out that it was like
0:21:17the Bigfoot Bigfoot that with the blurry
0:21:19footage that's that's in Washington
0:21:20right yeah that's in Washington say we
0:21:22have a lot of Bigfoot here big feets
0:21:24persons
0:21:25and and so I always said sasquatch
0:21:29yeah but apparently somewhere along the
0:21:33line everyone else in the world agreed
0:21:35that it's pronounced Sasquatch which i
0:21:37think is a terrible terrible
0:21:39pronunciation sasquatch
0:21:41it's vulgar Sasquatch comely Sasquatch
0:21:45it's it's a saw Squatch saw Squatch it's
0:21:48not so much prettier
0:21:49isn't that Muhammad delicious soft
0:21:51cheese wouldn't you rather be a
0:21:53Sasquatch of the Sasquatch and what I
0:21:56can
0:21:56what about words were losing like
0:21:58niggardly this very very difficult to
0:22:01get away with niggardly today
0:22:02well yeah the problem is that it that
0:22:04it's a word that it's a great word that
0:22:06so many dummies have have so many
0:22:11dummies have blanched at it that the
0:22:13people in between the non dummies who
0:22:16know what the word means still feel it
0:22:19since India airy because non dummies
0:22:22have made a practice of worrying about
0:22:24what dummies think this is this is the
0:22:27book this is that like half the problem
0:22:28with the modern age they're all these
0:22:30middle these middle non dummies who are
0:22:33who are like walking around on pins and
0:22:35needles because some dummy might
0:22:37misunderstand just to capture as well i
0:22:39think that one appendix in our book is
0:22:41definitely going to be the taxonomy of
0:22:42dummies
0:22:43oh it's going to be like a big pyramid
0:22:45we could go on and on about dummies but
0:22:47it used to be this is the thing
0:22:49middle-middle let's call the middle
0:22:52dummies middle dummies used to aspire to
0:22:58attract the the praise of non dummies
0:23:03and now middle dummies only inspire our
0:23:09middle name is now only act in fear of
0:23:12like a and in fear of the dummies you
0:23:18see what I'm saying I think so yeah I'm
0:23:20not really explaining it very well but
0:23:21it used to be that the middle that the
0:23:22middlebrow aspired to the highbrow and
0:23:25neither one concern themselves at all
0:23:28with the lowbrow but now the lowbrow
0:23:31dominates and the middlebrow is is on
0:23:34pins and needles at the prospect of
0:23:36offending the lowbrow
0:23:38so they did they devote all their energy
0:23:40because you know that because the
0:23:42highbrows out of fashion the highbrow
0:23:44has all these overtures of are all these
0:23:47a like these like native negative
0:23:52connotations of exclusivity and wealth
0:23:59and and privilege that there is a
0:24:02privilege
0:24:03yeah but also warring with the middle
0:24:07dummy middlebrow thinking I kind of want
0:24:09to appear a little fancy made me so I'm
0:24:14when I want using middle-middle would
0:24:16save middle dummies middle brother
0:24:18Tommy's I think of like what's a good
0:24:20example were coming
0:24:21um who shall attend the opening of the
0:24:28rectory
0:24:29yeah whom shall with Margaret and I was
0:24:33like well you got like three problems in
0:24:36that one like there's there's like goes
0:24:37several different things in that
0:24:39sentence that didn't really need to be
0:24:40that way I really feel like home shell
0:24:42would be a great DJ named DJ DJ whom
0:24:46shall yeah lets you know I've never been
0:24:50worried about fancy you know like fancy
0:24:53is this and I think that this goes back
0:24:55to the to what you were talking about
0:24:56before the the great influx of Irish
0:24:59into Appalachia like there's uh there's
0:25:03all this appellation worry about about
0:25:06being too big for your britches this
0:25:08sort of Nashville concern that you not
0:25:11act above your station and that has the
0:25:17the whole class structure that that used
0:25:19to be a part of is gone now and there's
0:25:21just this this residual sort of grease
0:25:25stain in the culture of of uh of of a
0:25:31feeling that that that that lines up
0:25:33with all these other aspects of the
0:25:34culture where the lower the the lower
0:25:38and the cruder is considered more real
0:25:41the more the more vulgar is the reeler
0:25:45oh yeah yeah because it's it's the
0:25:46language of the quote-unquote people is
0:25:49closer to the truth and it's not trying
0:25:52to cover up half-truths with with fancy
0:25:55words right and so that has that has
0:25:58this false friend in a in a kind of like
0:26:03in the humility or the you know that the
0:26:06desire not to be a not to brag or to be
0:26:11sure to put on airs and that the the
0:26:15false friendship with with the idea that
0:26:18vulgarity is closer to truth has
0:26:20produced a culture wide sense that that
0:26:27we should I mean seriously that people
0:26:29should be a flying in their pajamas
0:26:31which is which is as you know that the
0:26:35beginning of the end and I'm speaking
0:26:37now as a as the the human envoy for the
0:26:40UFOs yeah yeah somebody who gets gets
0:26:43out of the shuttle to the airport
0:26:46vehicle with the buckwheat pillow
0:26:48already around the neck you know that's
0:26:50that does not this is not a society that
0:26:53is ready for any kind of serious
0:26:55advancement
0:26:55yeah no not at all because these are
0:26:57people who are who one of these days are
0:27:00going to go through airport security and
0:27:02it's going to that it's going to just
0:27:04direct them right into the Soylent Green
0:27:05grinder
0:27:07I used to think it was just peculiar to
0:27:10this show that you would talk about the
0:27:12airport security locking but I'm
0:27:13starting to think that that whatever
0:27:16comes from the supertrain generation
0:27:18there's going to be something involving
0:27:19something like the TSA line because that
0:27:22seems to me that that is the nexus for
0:27:24everything that drives you crazy about
0:27:25the contract they are tits it's just
0:27:27like it's just like the walgreen
0:27:28situation they're training us they're
0:27:32training us through this gradual
0:27:33increase in indignity to just go into
0:27:36the hopper just go through the the
0:27:39branding cage into the you know they're
0:27:42just feeding us through what one after
0:27:45another and now they're looking at
0:27:46x-rays of us naked and we just we just
0:27:49say okay and then that's great stranding
0:27:52cage and the indignity has become
0:27:53patriotic absolutely and then pretty
0:27:55soon after the after that after the
0:27:59x-ray they're going to have us
0:28:01walkthrough a darkened tunnel
0:28:03just a short dark and Tommy will be able
0:28:05to see the end and then pretty soon it's
0:28:07gonna get a little bit longer that's
0:28:08gonna have a turn it so you can't see
0:28:10the light at the end but it's ok you can
0:28:11trust us like I've got a temple grandin
0:28:13think that we just have to send you
0:28:15through this dark tunnel that has a turn
0:28:16halfway through and then at a certain
0:28:18point the turn is going to get closer so
0:28:21it's you're gonna have to you're gonna
0:28:22have to get through a little like little
0:28:25gate or a little kind of like
0:28:26uncomfortable squeeze in the middle
0:28:29that's right the Patriot tunnel has two
0:28:31let's find that your address the
0:28:32problems with terrorism
0:28:33that's what we have to do and then one
0:28:35day you're going to turn your squeeze
0:28:37through that little gap and turn the
0:28:38corner right into the right into the saw
0:28:41blades don't call it an abattoir that's
0:28:43a little too fancy
0:28:46it's called it's a freedom knife room
0:28:50right into the saw blades I elected to
0:28:53have a pat-down search the other day
0:28:55nice and it was so invasive and and
0:29:02characterized by a kind of like finality
0:29:06like I said alright I'm you know what
0:29:09I'm not going to go through your x-ray
0:29:10machine I'm i gotta i'm on a layover
0:29:12here I got three hours to kill
0:29:14I'm going to see what this i'm going to
0:29:15get the pat-down how do you like them
0:29:17apples right and so the first thing they
0:29:20do is kind of trying to dissuade you
0:29:22like oh it's gonna be a long time so
0:29:27yeah I know it's gonna be a long time
0:29:28like I'm I'm i got all the time in the
0:29:31world
0:29:32you guys put your leather gloves on and
0:29:34let's go and so then they assure you
0:29:37through the little gate and they hold
0:29:39you over on the side while all the other
0:29:40people go by and I'm standing there with
0:29:42a kind of superior look on my face like
0:29:43I got the time
0:29:45let's go through the pat down and then
0:29:49here comes the guy and he's talking to
0:29:51somebody across the room and he puts his
0:29:54puts his plastic gloves on and then he
0:29:58starts giving you a full-on fucking pat
0:30:00down like he doesn't do that date rape
0:30:04the explanation usually do the date-rape
0:30:07the explanation likes or I'm going to be
0:30:09formally touching your generals yeah
0:30:12right i'm gonna run the back of my hand
0:30:14across your anus
0:30:15maybe some of that but I mean like right
0:30:18away they go into your pants now right
0:30:20don't go into your pants a little bit
0:30:21they do and right away I regretted I
0:30:26regretted coming over like this was so
0:30:28much more vulgar then what and then
0:30:32whatever year of my life i'm going to
0:30:35lose by being irritated by a teenager
0:30:37operating a machine made by Halliburton
0:30:41and sold to the government you know 450
0:30:45times but its list price should be right
0:30:48but this guy you know some dope is just
0:30:51like he's just pressing on me in a way
0:30:55that is transparently unnecessary like
0:30:59honestly I'm you know like I understand
0:31:04that that you have to do it because
0:31:06people could self-select and then be
0:31:09covered with plastic explosives but like
0:31:13this is a that there's a punitive aspect
0:31:17to the way that they do it like it is
0:31:18clearly punishment meant to dissuade you
0:31:22from ever doing this again yeah if the
0:31:25kurt vonnegut alien were to like write a
0:31:26paragraph on what he or she alien was
0:31:29seeing they would basically say that
0:31:31they're there is a system that is in
0:31:32place to make sure that everybody will
0:31:34follow in a necessary rule and anybody
0:31:36who doesn't follow the unnecessary rule
0:31:38will be made uncomfortable in front of
0:31:40other people for not following a
0:31:41necessary role that's what it really
0:31:42looks super super uncomfortable and you
0:31:44know I like spent the rest of the
0:31:46afternoon
0:31:46kind of like a fugitive Edward punitive
0:31:48it's it really it really feels like
0:31:50we're going to make an example of you go
0:31:52away some of your time you know how you
0:31:54can eat this is for me to be so much
0:31:55easier if you just go through the porno
0:31:57scanner but now i'm gonna make this a
0:31:58little uncomfortable for you but not
0:32:00uncomfortable enough that like it's
0:32:01actionable it's going to just be really
0:32:03humiliating for you so I'm traveling
0:32:05with my family of the day and I had
0:32:08encouraged them all to get get the
0:32:12pre-check card back when I believe that
0:32:14there was any value to the pre check on
0:32:16this story on another ship tell this is
0:32:20where you go John has been approved for
0:32:22black diamond lane
0:32:23yeah and we get to the airport and we
0:32:26print out our tickets were all traveling
0:32:27together we're sitting next to each
0:32:28other now
0:32:29there's four of us and two of the people
0:32:33have pre check on the top of their
0:32:36ticket but I and my three-year-old
0:32:39daughter do not have pre-check and so we
0:32:43get to the we get to the woman at the
0:32:47security desk and she points half of our
0:32:53party down the pre-check lane and half
0:32:56of our party into the other leg and I
0:32:58said you know we're all traveling
0:32:59together and she said doesn't matter and
0:33:02I said you know this is a three-year-old
0:33:04girl like do you honestly believe that I
0:33:11would I mean is there a terrorist in the
0:33:13world who would who would take his
0:33:18three-year-old as a as a false as a
0:33:21false flag as a as a beard a bomb beard
0:33:24three-year-old baby that this person has
0:33:29already their mind is already shut off
0:33:32sir I'm gonna get this individual to
0:33:34move out of the pre-check lane now and
0:33:36so you know so right away you're just
0:33:38you're in the hopper and if you make any
0:33:41fuss about it you just it's there's only
0:33:43one option which is that you don't fly
0:33:45today like the police come because
0:33:48either you acquiesce or you don't fly
0:33:53and we get all the way you know what I'm
0:33:55standing there and I'm like taking my
0:33:57belt off and i'm taking my wallet out
0:34:00and I'm just feeling like so much i'm
0:34:05just feeling that that perfect storm of
0:34:07resentment and frustration and Bend
0:34:12powerlessness little bit of resignation
0:34:14well but i can't succumb to resignation
0:34:17that's that is the that is the flaw in
0:34:19me I mean the word the word that comes
0:34:22to mind this is not a word that i use
0:34:23lightly because it the connotations but
0:34:25i think it's it's frankly depressing
0:34:27it makes me depressed it makes me
0:34:28depressed how much clothing I have to
0:34:30take off to go get on a plane and then
0:34:33stand there in and get dressed in front
0:34:35of other people I'm not like a modest
0:34:36person but there's something actually
0:34:38depressing to me that this is this is
0:34:39what it's come to
0:34:40it's deeply depressing and and and it is
0:34:43and he you sit there and you feel like
0:34:45you could not you could not design a
0:34:50system that is more sort of like it's
0:34:55just the lowest level of the basement
0:34:58right you can't complain about it
0:35:00because it's such a low level it's such
0:35:04a like mild shock you can't really
0:35:08enlist I mean even the fact that you and
0:35:11I are devoting this much time to talk
0:35:12about it
0:35:13there will be a certain number of people
0:35:15who roll their eyes and say whatever
0:35:19firstworldproblems whatever
0:35:20yeah people who don't travel yeah wh-who
0:35:23like to say first world problems in
0:35:25response to things that they don't want
0:35:27to think about but like culturally to
0:35:31have arrived at a place where there is
0:35:34no there is no way that you can assure
0:35:38the world you cannot either there are no
0:35:42bona fides right you cannot say can we
0:35:46just accept that I am no threat to
0:35:48everyone like it is not necessary to
0:35:51assume mrs. the thing i guess it is not
0:35:54necessary for a civilized society to
0:35:56assume a priori that every person is a
0:35:59threat until proven otherwise
0:36:00and the and it isn't a one-to-one
0:36:04correlation that either everyone is a
0:36:07threat or we have to we have to target
0:36:11people by race you know and this is the
0:36:14this is the premise that's kind of
0:36:17advanced us like well either everybody
0:36:19has to suffer or weed or or we have to
0:36:21resort to profiling because those are
0:36:23the only two options
0:36:25it's like no those aren't the only two
0:36:26options they really aren't like there
0:36:29are a lot of people of all races colors
0:36:32and creates that are no threat the vast
0:36:34vast majority of the number of people
0:36:37who are threat are such a tiny miniscule
0:36:41percentage percentage of a percentage
0:36:43and that that are only as happy as a
0:36:47people as a civilization that that the
0:36:50only solution to that tiny percentage is
0:36:55that every single person
0:36:56who wants to move about shall be treated
0:37:00shall be debased and treated as a
0:37:03criminal like it was that each person
0:37:08who wants to travel for pleasure or
0:37:10business needs to be mugged by a cop
0:37:14before they could just move you move to
0:37:17the next stage to the next stage of what
0:37:20is going to be a further debasing
0:37:22process like you know now you have been
0:37:25now you have been x-rayed and fingered
0:37:28and now you have to go sit in a broken
0:37:31chair in a fart tube and maybe you'll
0:37:36get half a can of club so that while the
0:37:39plane sits for three hours on the top
0:37:41like like this process is like it speaks
0:37:46to a brokenness in the grand experiment
0:37:49which I am of which I am a vocal
0:37:52proponent of you know the idea that we
0:37:55as human beings are evolving positively
0:37:58and we and culture is evolving
0:38:00positively and we are we are building on
0:38:03what we have made and we are creating
0:38:06that we are working toward a utopia or
0:38:10working toward a betterment of our
0:38:13condition as people and I I've always
0:38:18believed in it and this kind of like
0:38:21like bass police state ism is so
0:38:28antithetical to it and it it is
0:38:31depressing it is humiliating and it is
0:38:35infuriating and I cannot resign myself
0:38:38to it i don't i don't know how to
0:38:40protest
0:38:43which is part of the part of what see
0:38:45Millie ating but I can never just I can
0:38:49never walk up to that security line and
0:38:51just turn into a cow because because I
0:38:56really do feel like there will come a
0:38:57day when they will like when they're
0:39:00going to start hurting a certain
0:39:02percentage of the people over into a
0:39:03dark room and you never see him again
0:39:05totally and it's it's part of the
0:39:06problem is that it's a proxy war
0:39:08I think you need to be very careful in
0:39:10life about how many proxy wars you
0:39:11decide to fight because when you start a
0:39:13proxy war you your you go beyond some
0:39:16kind of in like an initial problem
0:39:18whether that's on a proxy war starts out
0:39:22with a good enough idea which is that
0:39:24there's this thing out there this really
0:39:26really bad thing that happened
0:39:27it's really really bad thing that almost
0:39:28happened and now we're going to put all
0:39:30this stuff in place to make sure that
0:39:32never happens again even though we
0:39:34really know it's never gonna change
0:39:35what's already happened
0:39:36it can try it's already happened but now
0:39:38there's going to be this whole new set
0:39:40of of new I mean how many people who
0:39:45died in a having a department store
0:39:48bombed in the eighties by the IRA really
0:39:50had that strong of an opinion one way or
0:39:52another about how things went with the
0:39:54troubles that's an extreme example but
0:39:56in this instance now you know I mean
0:39:59that the most obvious example being like
0:40:00the underwear bomber the shoe bomber or
0:40:02the whatever bomber
0:40:03I mean our response to something that
0:40:05didn't even work like a bombing tactic
0:40:07that didn't even work that was really
0:40:08implausible to begin with is to not
0:40:11everybody take their shoes or whatever
0:40:12so now we've got this entire force of
0:40:14people who aren't even cops r sub cops
0:40:16are there barely security guards they
0:40:18know it doesn't work
0:40:19this is well-documented they know that
0:40:21all this stuff is theatrical but they
0:40:22have to take extremely seriously and now
0:40:25there they are I you know different
0:40:27screen but perhaps perhaps I think
0:40:29someone understandably they're mad at us
0:40:30if we don't play along because they're
0:40:31just doing their job
0:40:32we're trying to do our job just being
0:40:33normal people but now that proxy war is
0:40:36is it's taking on this just the basic
0:40:39dignity of being just a normal American
0:40:41who can move freely and trying to as you
0:40:43say put us through this little this
0:40:45little sluice of indignity to make us
0:40:48kind of kowtow to this the basic concept
0:40:52that we are being protected by doing
0:40:54this and we are not being protected by
0:40:55doing that now that's that's the that's
0:40:57the really galling part of this if you
0:40:59honestly thought there's 2,500 people in
0:41:03this line right now and we know that one
0:41:04of them has explosives in their ass
0:41:06by all means why would say maybe just
0:41:08cancel the flight if you know that I
0:41:09don't really know that but you really
0:41:12going to search everybody's ass for a
0:41:14balloon full of explosives
0:41:15no because you know it's all bullshit
0:41:17you know that none of that stuff is true
0:41:18and it is about more than just
0:41:20firstworldproblems it's about this is a
0:41:21country where you used to be able to
0:41:23move freely and be able to to do stuff
0:41:25now you show up on lists and you don't
0:41:27know why and you can take it off the
0:41:28list but the proximal part I think
0:41:30becomes important because now like every
0:41:32kind of proxy war that you start out by
0:41:34salt non non solving a problem or a
0:41:37non-problem and now on top of that
0:41:39you've got all of these new problems as
0:41:41a result of that
0:41:42well the primary new problem is I i
0:41:45cannot be alone in in traveling through
0:41:49airports and basically thinking the
0:41:51entire time about all the different ways
0:41:53i would i get all the different ways I
0:41:56could sneak a bomb through here if I
0:41:57really wanted to that that's that was
0:41:59just that was just going to say this is
0:42:00this to me became extremely icy this now
0:42:03probably one of the three times the
0:42:04travel i see this exact same thing
0:42:05happening each time it blows me away is
0:42:08that you'll be standing there and
0:42:09watching people you know seeing little
0:42:11kids get search for bombs and then
0:42:13somebody pushing a what i would estimate
0:42:16to be probably a 100 gallon garbage pail
0:42:19on Wheels is waived through yeah because
0:42:22they're an employee now they have a pass
0:42:24and they've been checked and stuff yeah
0:42:26so somebody making ten dollars and fifty
0:42:28cents an hour gets gets wave through
0:42:30it's not a question of class it's a
0:42:32question of just read one fucking spy
0:42:34novel and figure out how you would do it
0:42:35you know what you would do you go to
0:42:37just go to pilot and have them do it
0:42:38it's not gonna be it's not gonna be the
0:42:40old lady with the medicine and the
0:42:42gallon of water who doesn't understand
0:42:43the 3-ounce rule
0:42:45yeah anyway I everybody's like the last
0:42:47or exactly but that but then that that's
0:42:49what you have these knock-on effects
0:42:51proxy wars maybe not the best term for
0:42:53it but I think when you when you try to
0:42:55have these little of the dramatis
0:42:58persona of people who are trying to have
0:42:59a life play out these little political
0:43:01plays and then act you know we're not
0:43:04supposed to act like we know anything's
0:43:05fucked up about it
0:43:06I mean how can
0:43:08an intelligent person do that for ten
0:43:09years and feel great about it and feel
0:43:11really proud
0:43:12well I the thing that concerns me is
0:43:15that something i really do feel this way
0:43:18something has been lost in in the course
0:43:21and just the span of my adult life where
0:43:26the where the idea of a of living by
0:43:32example has as almost like completely
0:43:38gone awry in our culture and has been
0:43:42replaced by this like this cultural war
0:43:47of that that's that's happening in a
0:43:51thousand different ways that don't need
0:43:52to be detailed but but the the the idea
0:43:56the idea that that at as the United
0:44:03States in our role in in what we used to
0:44:07think of as our role as like the
0:44:09aspirational nation where no matter
0:44:14where you lived in the world right you
0:44:16would aspire to come to America to live
0:44:19free and have opportunity we should that
0:44:21impossible things can happen and it
0:44:23could be sustained at scale
0:44:24yeah and possible things and all the
0:44:26criticisms of that that America's wealth
0:44:29is a result of exploitation of a nun
0:44:32exploited country that we stole from
0:44:34people and center etc etc all those
0:44:37taken in and and you know like accepted
0:44:41and assumed as valid criticisms still
0:44:44the United States as a democratic
0:44:45experiment was for a very long time the
0:44:50place where human ideas taken from all
0:44:54around the world were sort of put into
0:44:57practice like let us try these ideas and
0:45:01there are there are innumerable ways
0:45:03that there were secret societies and
0:45:07that the whole thing was just a CIA you
0:45:10know like a fake radio station the
0:45:13entire time etc etc but in but in actual
0:45:16fact like the human experience the human
0:45:19experiment
0:45:20was and is still being played out in
0:45:24America better than anywhere else and
0:45:27more on a greater scale and with like
0:45:31with more factors right there's no other
0:45:33place in the world that has as many
0:45:35people of different races cultures and
0:45:37creeds who all trying to come to a
0:45:41consensus live according to common rules
0:45:44and end with a system that allows those
0:45:47rules to evolve in real time to reflect
0:45:51new ideas and new cultures coming in you
0:45:53know there's that the the rules in
0:45:55america are so much different than they
0:45:57were 20 years ago and for the better
0:45:59because of the influx of all these new
0:46:01ideas and we are like uniquely flexible
0:46:06to assimilate all these different new
0:46:12concepts and and a lot of that
0:46:13flexibility is because of our diversity
0:46:15but something is something is lost now
0:46:19that we are not we are no longer leading
0:46:24by example in terms of assuming like
0:46:29taking acceptable risks that yes people
0:46:32are gonna get hurt that yes it is messy
0:46:35that yes every once in a while every
0:46:39once in a while somebody is going to
0:46:40sneak through with an underwear bomb you
0:46:43know in all in all frankness because you
0:46:47cannot eliminate all crazies you know
0:46:52you cannot you cannot stop all predators
0:46:56and it's crazy to try and so somewhere
0:47:01somewhere on the scale the the practice
0:47:05of of democracy and the practice of
0:47:09freedom has to look like it you know it
0:47:12has to this is my this is my beef with
0:47:14washington DC right now you remember
0:47:16going to washington DC when you were a
0:47:18kid he walked right up you driving down
0:47:21Pennsylvania Avenue standing on the
0:47:23sidewalk get your picture taken in front
0:47:25of the White House it was fun it was
0:47:28open and democratic looking
0:47:31you know the President of the United
0:47:33States lives right there in that house
0:47:36yeah with glass windows yeah and yes
0:47:38there's a fence because he doesn't want
0:47:41people playing frisbee on the lawn but
0:47:44that fence is like just offense and yes
0:47:48there are security people but you don't
0:47:50see them and this is the end and there's
0:47:54the capital where were all the
0:47:55government is he like it's all right
0:47:57here laid out in this beautiful city
0:47:59it's not it's not deep inside a a player
0:48:04yea even even if there are bonkers but
0:48:07but the appearance of of america was
0:48:11like very appealing and very open and
0:48:14that was intentional even even as we
0:48:16were fighting wars and into China on the
0:48:18sly but now you go to Washington DC and
0:48:22it looks like an armed camp everywhere
0:48:24you go there are black SUVs full of
0:48:27black-clad machine gun carrying secret
0:48:29service and land park police and fifty
0:48:33different kinds of cop the entire area
0:48:35around the White House is barricaded
0:48:39with tank traps
0:48:41I mean seriously like tank traps and
0:48:46black hawk helicopters are flying over
0:48:49the city at all times and again it is as
0:48:52you're saying complete security theater
0:48:54but it's one hundred percent the wrong
0:48:59impulse that isn't the theater that we
0:49:02need to be playing our theater needs to
0:49:04be the theater of confidence and and
0:49:08calm right and to play this theater of
0:49:13like of of a security state is it's
0:49:17deeply anti-american it is profoundly
0:49:21anti-democratic and like fills me with
0:49:26rage because it's an insult that I think
0:49:30your borders on treason an insult to the
0:49:33idea of America and that the thing that
0:49:36I love about America and the America
0:49:38that I would die to defend you know and
0:49:41I and and
0:49:42all of the like Eagle tattoos and
0:49:47freedom chance or whatever are our
0:49:51garbage jingoism if you can't walk down
0:49:55the street in washington DC without
0:49:56feeling threatened by our own police if
0:50:00you can't fly from seattle to san
0:50:02francisco without feeling like you are
0:50:06not just under surveillance but like
0:50:08presumed guilty right can demonstrate
0:50:13demonstrate test that you're not a
0:50:15threat it's true it's that it is that
0:50:18it's antithetical to the American Way
0:50:21and end into the american way that
0:50:23existed all the way through the Reagan
0:50:26years all the way really through the
0:50:28Clinton years and again I hear the
0:50:30chorus of of finger waggers who want to
0:50:35tell me all about the secret secret like
0:50:38behind-the-scenes governments and all
0:50:41that but I'm talking about the
0:50:42appearance the the temperature on the
0:50:45street the feeling that America had that
0:50:48other places didn't you know if you got
0:50:50off the subway in berlin in 1987 yes
0:50:54there were there were armed police
0:50:57standing around because the presumption
0:50:59then was that there were a million
0:51:00Soviets on the other side of the fence
0:51:02but in America there were not tank traps
0:51:07around the White House you know if the
0:51:09tanks get that far
0:51:10he didn't hear and I know that the tank
0:51:13traps are there to keep to keep Timothy
0:51:15make V and his freightliner van truth
0:51:19from getting up close enough to the
0:51:20White House to like break the windows
0:51:22but but it's a you know they're there is
0:51:28a way to close pennsylvania avenue and
0:51:31decorate it with flowers you know there
0:51:34are ways to do these things and make it
0:51:39not appear that you are that you're
0:51:43playing a video game
0:51:44it seems like it's such a dick cheney
0:51:46move it is it is and that's what I
0:51:48because that's what I think his legacy
0:51:50that then some ways like one of his many
0:51:52wonderful legacies for this country is
0:51:54going to be shit like that
0:51:55just you know that the entire theatrical
0:51:57thing that is going to keep you know
0:52:00will pretty much any c- attacker from
0:52:02really doing anything to us what you
0:52:04remember that scene in California a few
0:52:06years ago where those two bank robbers
0:52:07had machine guns and they walked down
0:52:10the street some supposedly with impunity
0:52:14just firing their machine guns all
0:52:16around and the cops the the story that
0:52:19the cops told you have enough firepower
0:52:21day when Carly outgun yeah and and like
0:52:252,000 cops were outgunned by one guy and
0:52:30a machine gun and his friend driving a
0:52:33car and so the the response from law
0:52:38enforcement nationwide to that was
0:52:41listen the bad guys have these really
0:52:43powerful guns and so we need to we need
0:52:47to Double Down we need to militarize
0:52:48because there are these these bad guys
0:52:51with guns now look through the history
0:52:55of America there have always been bad
0:52:56guys with guns they have always had as
0:52:59as modern a gun as you could have right
0:53:02i mean the sniper in the clock tower in
0:53:07austin back in the sixties was a Marine
0:53:09sniper with a sniper rifle just shooting
0:53:12at students like its it was never a
0:53:14question of firepower but because this
0:53:16guy's gotta gotta automatic or
0:53:18semi-automatic weapon you felt it
0:53:22immediately like all of a sudden the
0:53:24cops wearing black fatigues everywhere
0:53:26and they're driving around in in SUV's
0:53:30with blacked out windows and the police
0:53:34have always wanted that but there were
0:53:38civilian checks on that kind of thing
0:53:40like the civilian population said in
0:53:44general we don't want the police driving
0:53:47around in tanks looking like just stop
0:53:50oh it's not what we want we want police
0:53:53walking swinging their billy clubs and
0:53:58harassing teenagers but sitting in soda
0:54:02fountains and we you know we like we
0:54:03want the police to be to protect us to
0:54:07look like they protect us to look like
0:54:09members of the community and in the last
0:54:1215 years
0:54:13the police have have through the this
0:54:18sort of hero-worshipping cult and the
0:54:21the general militarizing of the United
0:54:24States now everywhere you look the cops
0:54:26have their have combat boots on their
0:54:28pants are bloused they're carrying like
0:54:32sometimes three guns and they look like
0:54:38paratroopers and particularly at any
0:54:42kind of big gathering all of a sudden
0:54:44they even the cops that are in normal
0:54:45uniforms run home and get their
0:54:46paratrooper outfits on and what and what
0:54:51kind of job you dressing for at that
0:54:53point exactly what you're my kid is lost
0:54:55in a department store or something or
0:54:57something something happens in like
0:54:59somebody has to go up and ask for help
0:55:00with something you are now walking up to
0:55:02somebody in paramilitary gear with three
0:55:04guns like what is that person's job
0:55:06what is their job and what do they think
0:55:08their job if you saw you if you spent 25
0:55:10years of your life walking with three
0:55:12guns and body armor all the time you're
0:55:13not going to think of yourself as a
0:55:14community police office that's exactly
0:55:16the right of yourself basically is Army
0:55:18Reserve and if you if you are coming to
0:55:20a peaceful gathering in your town in the
0:55:23town square and you show up and there
0:55:24are a line of cops dress like army
0:55:28rangers on night patrol do you go to
0:55:33them for help if you if you lose your
0:55:36wallet or do you mean do you like stand
0:55:39on the other side of the square and I
0:55:41them warily like not take it a step
0:55:44further for that matter if you think
0:55:46something is kind of odd or something
0:55:49you know you want to make a note about
0:55:51to somebody i'm usually something you
0:55:53want to say something
0:55:54well kind of but I mean yet obviously
0:55:56obviously if you find this terrorist
0:55:57that you have to tell them about it but
0:55:58just something as simple as like I would
0:56:00be I would be it seems to be inadvisable
0:56:03to go to to go to that particular arm of
0:56:07law enforcement anything but like a
0:56:09desire for deadly enforcement i mean
0:56:13that that that you know the the finer
0:56:15tools are not going to get used nearly
0:56:17as much as like pepper spraying three
0:56:18guns
0:56:19that's exactly right like that like
0:56:22these are not police who are who are
0:56:25projecting that they are helpful or that
0:56:28they are kind or the day are thoughtful
0:56:31or considerate you know the area that
0:56:33they even human
0:56:34they basically they likes nitin
0:56:36stormtroopers a loaded term but in a
0:56:38sense of being like an anonymous
0:56:40enforcer of some kind of in order that
0:56:44you never even heard right so fast
0:56:47forward a couple years from now where
0:56:49the technology to have one in three of
0:56:52those people be a robot but that you
0:56:55mean we really are like like like
0:56:57somebody's i read on Twitter the other
0:57:00day that somebody's I thought really
0:57:04really smart comment that people are
0:57:08always bitching that we were promised
0:57:09flying cars but if you were born anytime
0:57:13after nineteen seventy what you are
0:57:15really promised by science fiction was a
0:57:17dystopian police state and in fact II
0:57:22the price of the promises of science
0:57:24fiction are coming true so quit your
0:57:25bitching and it was it was a very clever
0:57:29tween but also like it really resonated
0:57:32with me like oh right
0:57:35if you were born in nineteen thirty
0:57:36maybe you were promised flying cars they
0:57:41are like a house of the future yeah
0:57:43right like this lesson kinda like
0:57:45high-tech leisure that was all like
0:57:47World's Fair 1962 popular science kind
0:57:50of stuff and by the time 1980 came
0:57:52around science fiction was just like oh
0:57:55yes it's going to be a cesspool ruled
0:57:58from on high by robots and either you
0:58:02are either you're living in a space pod
0:58:06you're needed here living on Elysium or
0:58:09you're not you know and and I feel like
0:58:12the the the solution
0:58:15you know we have to start now and we
0:58:18have to start now by not resigning
0:58:20ourselves to to these minor indignities
0:58:23up on behalf of the TSA like it is
0:58:26possible to roll back the police state
0:58:29mentality
0:58:30but it requires that we have that we
0:58:34resume a mentality that like cultural
0:58:39wide agriculture wide a mentality that
0:58:44that favors peace and tranquility and
0:58:50consensus over divisive pneus
0:58:54and-and-and in a way that means that our
0:58:59hyper hyper worship of individuality
0:59:05needs to be somewhat tempered you know
0:59:09the idea that every single person has a
0:59:12right to whatever their to whatever
0:59:18myriad like bullet points they can come
0:59:22up with to describe their own individual
0:59:24identity like that premise that each
0:59:27person's individual identity identity is
0:59:30it is a is a status rather than that we
0:59:36each are that our status is derived
0:59:39through the like the the welfare of the
0:59:44group you know that no one of us has a
0:59:48status greater than another if the
0:59:49lowest part or if any if any quadrant of
0:59:53the group is not like well cared for
0:59:56then we all lose status and that is a
0:59:56then we all lose status and that is a
1:00:00that's a lost art and it it was never
1:00:02articulated before because it was
1:00:05presumed in a lot of ways and on all
1:00:10sides now every single person has every
1:00:16single person in America it has this
1:00:18kind of strange combination of like
1:00:22Appalachian frat boy like rebel status
1:00:34you know what I mean every single person
1:00:36is a rebel now and if everyone's a rebel
1:00:40there will never be any peace we all we
1:00:45deserve to live in a police state
1:00:46because we're all rebels all the time
1:00:49and I'm stealing cultural pop-culture
1:00:52rebels or you mean like like a going to
1:00:54the compound kind of rebels
1:00:55I mean I mean we easily been talking
1:00:57about like like just coming up with the
1:01:00multi-purpose artisanal entitlement what
1:01:02one person at a time i mean it when you
1:01:05think about it the one thing that
1:01:07unifies a like a newly out trans sex
1:01:15worker and a Alabama frat-boy investment
1:01:22banker deacon in his church the the the
1:01:28one thing that unifies them is that
1:01:30neither one of them is going to let
1:01:31anybody tell them what to do
1:01:34neither one of them is going to let
1:01:37anybody define them right and culturally
1:01:42now we that this dominates our
1:01:46conversation on every side of the
1:01:47political spectrum
1:01:49nobody's going to tell me who I am or
1:01:52what I can do and I can be anybody I
1:01:56want to be and you're you're not the
1:01:59boss of me like that's the that is the
1:02:02American consensus now and it is dull
1:02:08it's dull and Italy it leads us down
1:02:12this path where we are children and so
1:02:16the cops are doing what comes natural to
1:02:19them which is we need more guns we need
1:02:23more Thor tie so that's the cops that's
1:02:27what they will always do its what
1:02:28they've always done right but there's no
1:02:30one to stop them now they're never going
1:02:32to say you know what you have two
1:02:34minutes
1:02:35it's not the cops job to say we need to
1:02:38have a more civil society and when so as
1:02:42police we're gonna we're going to
1:02:43accomplish that by putting our guns away
1:02:45like the cops are never gonna do that
1:02:48right that has to come from that has to
1:02:52come from well and it has to come from a
1:02:56new a new coalition of people from all
1:03:01walks of life who say no my you know my
1:03:06individuality does not take precedence
1:03:09you can tell me what to do i will i do
1:03:16agree that although this law does not
1:03:19seem to apply directly to me although i
1:03:22don't have any kids and I am being taxed
1:03:24for the public schools
1:03:25I'm gonna just I'm just gonna I'm not
1:03:28I'm not
1:03:29it's not that I'm gonna just give stop
1:03:33complaining about my taxes to the public
1:03:35schools i'm going to group i'm going to
1:03:37gratefully give my tax money to the
1:03:40public schools to educate my neighbor's
1:03:42kids because that's how you make
1:03:46better world 20 years from now and no
1:03:51one's preaching that anymore you know
1:03:54that I think that used to come from that
1:03:57used to come from the youth from the
1:03:58church's it used to come from the from
1:04:03the from just this your your your normal
1:04:07sense of community it wasn't a thing you
1:04:10could even reasonably argue it was just
1:04:13the john birch society and the wingnuts
1:04:15way way out there would ever argue that
1:04:19we shouldn't be taxed for public schools
1:04:21I I guess I just feel like the the stuff
1:04:24the stuff that involves me and all this
1:04:25there's there's a you know it's always
1:04:28the the boogeymen of the various
1:04:31dystopian futures that we call out and
1:04:33worried about but there's something like
1:04:35particularly enduring about Kafka to me
1:04:39because in a cough go
1:04:42navalur Kafka story it's the the part
1:04:46that's the most disturbing as you don't
1:04:47know why it's happening that that's the
1:04:50thing that's the thing that really gets
1:04:51me so I take your point in particular
1:04:53about things like the police that's
1:04:54their job right i mean the police are
1:04:56always going to want things that make it
1:04:57easier or less difficult to do police
1:04:59work the people who gather intelligence
1:05:00are always going to want everything they
1:05:02need to make it less difficult to gather
1:05:04intelligence is never going to be a day
1:05:05when they say you know what we really
1:05:07need all these phone records the part
1:05:08the part that I find so troubling and
1:05:11the part that I think is going to lead
1:05:13to more and more credibility problems at
1:05:15various many many different levels is
1:05:17that this whole like well this is just
1:05:19how it is that that's the dick cheney
1:05:21this of it you know is the like is like
1:05:22wait no wait a minute wait a minute no
1:05:24I've got photos here of what cops look
1:05:26like 20 years ago I got photos now what
1:05:28they look like now there's still
1:05:29probably real good people but I can't
1:05:30tell because they're wear masks and
1:05:32right here
1:05:33why is that and when do we get to is
1:05:35that just how it's gonna be now and and
1:05:37why is it why is it that this person got
1:05:39picked out of line and not that person
1:05:41why is it suddenly I mean it's just so
1:05:42much opacity to this all-consuming need
1:05:46to control all things that I i mean i
1:05:49don't have a prediction on what that's
1:05:51going to lead to like a revolution or
1:05:52something but i think it's certainly
1:05:53hurts the credibility of of anybody
1:05:56who's trying to do something good in
1:05:58government
1:05:58is when you increasingly say things like
1:06:00you know you you can't fly and I can't
1:06:03even tell you whether you are on a list
1:06:05and what you can or can't you do about
1:06:07it i'm not even having this conversation
1:06:08with you right now that's that then that
1:06:10to me that's why kafka kafka ask
1:06:12component of this is what makes it so
1:06:15deeply troubling it's one thing to say
1:06:17like okay there's a real bad guy
1:06:19there's this classic villain who's doing
1:06:22all this bad stuff to that but I don't
1:06:23get that feeling at all it's more like
1:06:25again though whatever the hunterian like
1:06:26finality of evil thing it's just a bunch
1:06:28of people doing their fucking job
1:06:30it's their job is to create more and
1:06:32more opacity about this non solution to
1:06:36what's increasingly starting to seem
1:06:37like an unsolvable problem what's the
1:06:38problem the problem is security
1:06:40what was that mean yeah like what I mean
1:06:42how much further do we have to go
1:06:44I mean how much further will we go in
1:06:46these directions where things just keep
1:06:49getting weirder and like the more that
1:06:51we asked questions about the more the
1:06:52more suspicious that we've seen and then
1:06:54i'm not i'm not a wing night i'm not out
1:06:56here saying like I don't even have a
1:06:58conspiracy theory i just don't
1:07:00understand how how you can be a reason
1:07:04member of a democratic society when
1:07:06you're just not allowed to have basic
1:07:08information about why things are
1:07:09operating the way they're operating and
1:07:11that what what's what's terrifying or
1:07:13what is what is so dispiriting is when
1:07:17Obama was running for election the first
1:07:20time all this stuff was true it was all
1:07:23happening all around us
1:07:25i mean the the fact that that the
1:07:28Department of Homeland Security is even
1:07:31called that like it was I thought that
1:07:36it was the I thought it was the broadest
1:07:38parody in the world until I realized
1:07:40they were serious yes like homeland
1:07:42security
1:07:43it's as not see a thing you could say
1:07:46anything he just it's like father llegan
1:07:49honesty file and got crossed off
1:07:51fatherland security is exactly what it
1:07:53is and so so but we've accepted that we
1:07:57don't even say Homeland Security with a
1:07:58sneer anymore but what Obama was running
1:08:01he was really selling it to us that it
1:08:06was time for a change and I mean
1:08:07obviously that was his slogan but also
1:08:09like you
1:08:10yes it is time for the left and the
1:08:14left's traditional relationship to the
1:08:17cops and to the army to step in here and
1:08:21we need to we need to cleanse our
1:08:23palates we need to have a juice fast
1:08:26nationwide juice fast and we are going
1:08:30to poop out some hard and fecal matter
1:08:32and we're going to come out the other
1:08:34side and we are going to demilitarize
1:08:37really was a big part of his message and
1:08:42closing Guantanamo and all the other
1:08:46like restoring the rule of law actually
1:08:49one point say that he was going to have
1:08:50the most open administration
1:08:51yeah it wasn't an actual words that came
1:08:53out of his mouth that they were with me
1:08:55and even as the the number of these like
1:08:58National Security Letters has gone off
1:09:00the charts and the numbers are just not
1:09:04not adding up
1:09:05well and the tenant it isn't just that
1:09:07but like he did he he he eliminated not
1:09:09a single thing and so when you look now
1:09:13at at at without that the past six years
1:09:18and you realize that obama and his
1:09:22administration have us have accepted all
1:09:26of those george bush era like
1:09:29militarization as fait accompli you you
1:09:34know that a Hillary Clinton
1:09:36administration is not going back is not
1:09:40going back any of that stuff off either
1:09:42like she she has to appear to be as
1:09:46hawkish as the most hawkish Democrat
1:09:49because she you know to the
1:09:50traditionally that would be the number
1:09:53one attack you would make on a on a
1:09:54female president is that she's not tough
1:09:56enough you know she's not going to roll
1:09:58back any of these security platforms so
1:10:02what you what you could have come to is
1:10:04that really the Democratic Party the
1:10:06left the left choice in America is now
1:10:11as invested in a police state as the
1:10:14right and it isn't it isn't working
1:10:18anymore they're really does need to be a
1:10:21new conversation where we start with the
1:10:26premise that we are not at we are not at
1:10:29in constant war will instruct the
1:10:32premise that this guy's this is fucked
1:10:34up
1:10:34it's just that it doesn't feel like
1:10:36there's any everybody seems to be kind
1:10:38of grimly nodding along about this
1:10:40horrible situation that nobody likes but
1:10:42we have to deal with and I just don't
1:10:44feel like there's been like a collective
1:10:45exhaling where everybody goes you know
1:10:48what this is fucked up right
1:10:50we need that we need to we need to get a
1:10:51couple things we need to get our mind
1:10:53right about a few things
1:10:54yeah we don't want to be we don't want
1:10:55to be dummies we don't want to get
1:10:57attacked like because of carelessness
1:10:59but like our AO but I mean how much
1:11:02longer can we keep moving in this
1:11:04particular direction and you know just
1:11:06close your eyes and think of England you
1:11:07know it's like there's something's got
1:11:08to happen we just go look at its fucked
1:11:10up the exhale
1:11:11yeah i mean III don't know what that
1:11:13looks like and is a fucking hate
1:11:15politics knowledge but i don't know i
1:11:16don't know what I don't know what the
1:11:17what what kind of solution you can have
1:11:19because that that's a conversation
1:11:21nobody wants to have nobody wants to be
1:11:23the one who stick their head up
1:11:24especially to try to get into office
1:11:26everyone's just like you say nobody
1:11:27wants to stick their hand up and go you
1:11:28know what this is this is pretty fucked
1:11:30up
1:11:30well and what it was having a week isn't
1:11:32here the other thing that John is like
1:11:34we can't even really know how much
1:11:36terrorism has been stopped because then
1:11:38that would be alright secure them to let
1:11:41us know what's actually happened
1:11:43yeah I would it would be dangerous
1:11:44because not every third person walking
1:11:47through an airport is thinking now if I
1:11:48had a coke if I let's see if I had three
1:11:51shampoo bottles that were full of the
1:11:53three components that make plastic
1:11:56explosives and my friend had three
1:11:58shampoo bottles like how many terrorist
1:12:00plots have been foiled like okay let's
1:12:02assume all of them or I mean it's it is
1:12:05irrelevant ultimately to the to the
1:12:09question of and this is the this is the
1:12:10question of automating armies you know
1:12:13and this was the problem with the
1:12:14invasion of afghanistan in the first
1:12:17place before we even invaded Iraq there
1:12:20was from Rumsfeld
1:12:23this like a hard-on for technology where
1:12:27he felt like he wasn't going to have to
1:12:29put American lives at risk in order that
1:12:34it was going to be thought it was kinda
1:12:36thinking in it seems like he thought it
1:12:38was going to be basically like the
1:12:39Allies rolling through Europe in World
1:12:42War two but with like space lasers
1:12:45Spacely dragon and give us flowers and
1:12:47there are the Americans little American
1:12:48flags being waived and our guys would
1:12:50have the big bubble helmets on and walk
1:12:52around space lasers space lasers and
1:12:54maybe talking to each other on heads-up
1:12:55displays and the Taliban would lay down
1:12:58their guns or their sharpened sticks or
1:13:01whatever it was that he thought they had
1:13:03and we would be greeted in Afghanistan
1:13:07like liberators and conquering dollars
1:13:09finally the Americans are here because
1:13:11everybody knows in Afghanistan and
1:13:13Pakistan traditionally they welcomed
1:13:15invaders and yeah but that but the idea
1:13:21and and the military keeps moving in
1:13:22this direction like it would be good for
1:13:24business is an American invasion you
1:13:26know you know what people love ya
1:13:28they love to see American invaders
1:13:31particularly robot engagement i can
1:13:34actually see their faces but I bet their
1:13:35nights but like with their the the
1:13:38military's talking about this like a
1:13:40one-in-three one in four soldiers now
1:13:42being a robot in the next 20 years a
1:13:44serious
1:13:45oh yeah this is this is their new this
1:13:46is that this is the big position paper
1:13:48now that the and a big part of that is
1:13:51like to be the support staff can be to
1:13:55be replaced with robots oh no not drone
1:13:58planes but like drawing people from
1:13:59people absolutely about copy like more
1:14:02like a drone vehicle that yes vehicle
1:14:04person but it would be a situation where
1:14:06they could reduce the living humans that
1:14:09was that constituted a brigade and still
1:14:12have a brigade strength who of force
1:14:15because they would replace the humans
1:14:17that they're taking out with robot
1:14:19helpers and you know and then robot
1:14:23friends and then yeah robots you know
1:14:28first row first the robot cooks yeah and
1:14:30then the robot ninjas
1:14:32ok maybe yeah maybe maybe they could use
1:14:35like farm equipment they could kill two
1:14:37birds with one stone given maybe they
1:14:39can have robot farm soldiers well even
1:14:42with it will be a grenade thrower and
1:14:43then he'll be pulling a plow
1:14:45yeah or maybe he could help pull out
1:14:47some you know some of the natural
1:14:49resources get out some of those metals
1:14:51right it looks like super training also
1:14:54digging diamonds it's a little bit of a
1:14:56military diamond taking soldier bot
1:14:58yeah but but what that person with that
1:15:01presumes is that whatever foreign policy
1:15:05work were trying to effect is not worth
1:15:08in american life and if and if we can
1:15:14remove American lives from the equation
1:15:17then we no longer have a problem at home
1:15:21because we no longer have moms on the TV
1:15:24crying about their dead is interesting
1:15:26and if we if we are no longer losing
1:15:30soldiers and if robots are cheaper than
1:15:34soldiers and they are then it's not it's
1:15:38not like we would never reduce the
1:15:39defense budget we would just have more
1:15:41and more soldiers more and more robot
1:15:42soldiers and with with less and less
1:15:46political cost less and less investment
1:15:49and how much much lower threshold of of
1:15:54engagement like already we are bombing
1:15:57people from drones and that and despite
1:16:01you know we have a we have a listener on
1:16:04the line who is a drone pilot were you
1:16:05aware of that really talking about that
1:16:07yeah and he has a BS very strong
1:16:09feelings that the drone program is
1:16:11ethical and that you know under tight
1:16:16control and is a you know is a service
1:16:18to our country and he he's written a
1:16:22book about it that he sent me and it's a
1:16:24very interesting book but this the
1:16:27standard the ethical standard for what
1:16:30it takes now 44 American technology to
1:16:33kill somebody
1:16:34i mean it's it's been on the on the way
1:16:37for a long time but but and it away
1:16:40carpet bombing
1:16:43car bombing a city from 50,000 feet and
1:16:47like drone attacking somebody in the
1:16:49desert of Yemen that there's not a you
1:16:53know you can't really make a case that
1:16:55carpet bombing is any more discreet
1:16:58certainly but you know we're right up
1:17:01against the Monroe Doctrine here you
1:17:04know we r we r do we are essentially
1:17:07assassinating heads of state of non
1:17:11states in in in contravention of like
1:17:14our own law and and what we are and what
1:17:20we're trying to do is eliminate our
1:17:22investment in the sense of if we can
1:17:26take our soldiers out if we can take our
1:17:29human cost away and this is true of the
1:17:32it in the police to like they are not
1:17:35willing to put a policeman in a
1:17:38situation where he might get injured
1:17:39because it looks bad and it feels bad
1:17:43and so in order to keep the policeman
1:17:47safe they militarized them to the point
1:17:51that we are now facing a wall of
1:17:53black-faced like armored cops and every
1:17:59step of the way it's like right i don't
1:18:01want a policeman to get hurt either but
1:18:03actually the risk of getting hurt is
1:18:07part of the job of being a policeman and
1:18:09if you and and and and the reality is if
1:18:14you send one cop in his shirtsleeves
1:18:16into a group of agitators nine out of
1:18:21ten times he's going to be able to
1:18:23relate to them on a human level and
1:18:25defuse the situation and if you send 25
1:18:29cops dressed as robots to confront those
1:18:31agitators ninety-nine percent of the
1:18:33time it's going to turn into a fight
1:18:35and the and the risk has to be that one
1:18:40cop 1 out of 10 * is going to get hurt
1:18:43and if you're not willing to take that
1:18:46risk then you set up a situation where
1:18:50worth what we're all fighting always all
1:18:52the time and nobody saying please and
1:18:58thank you
1:19:00mmm