Roderick on the Line

Ep. 65: "Trumpet Discrimination"

 

  hello [TS]

  I John hi Merlin how's it going good [TS]

  surely it's early it's literally my [TS]

  daughter's got a persistent cough yeah [TS]

  it's going around everybody's got it [TS]

  yeah it's it's gotten productive which [TS]

  is hard when you're a kid [TS]

  yeah that's bad yeah it's just taking [TS]

  expectorant as much as I'd like I'm [TS]

  totally fine with driving our daughter [TS]

  up in my wife is kind of rude about it [TS]

  OIC yeah but there's a lot going around [TS]

  that introduces school and there [TS]

  everything's going around the edges are [TS]

  hotbeds of sick little sponges I [TS]

  throughout my sponges all the time [TS]

  they're disgusting scott simpson Bobby [TS]

  someone he considered some kind of magic [TS]

  Japanese sponge prices for everything [TS]

  you want to that one store [TS]

  yeah and I and it was it's great except [TS]

  here's the thing [TS]

  it's a white sponge yeah now if you're [TS]

  going to if you're going to make a [TS]

  sponger color don't make a white now [TS]

  that's a terrible color that first time [TS]

  I used it then it looked like i used it [TS]

  on something that was dirty and then I [TS]

  had like a permanently dirty sponge you [TS]

  gotta live with that I gotta live with [TS]

  that I'll every time I go to the sink i [TS]

  turn the water and look down and here's [TS]

  this sponge that's like spoiled well and [TS]

  you know a lot of its breeding I think [TS]

  like we're not from wealthy families and [TS]

  you know certain kinds of things in the [TS]

  home you use them until they're not [TS]

  usable anymore that's my background [TS]

  yeah but scott simpson you're saying you [TS]

  would they use the sponge once and then [TS]

  they threw it out the window and the [TS]

  gardener took it away [TS]

  mm I think that's where he is now [TS]

  absolutely as you know he's extremely [TS]

  rich from a context is rich and but I [TS]

  think he's from a very modest background [TS]

  to with one exception of ever told you [TS]

  this you know his mom had a band and [TS]

  what [TS]

  yeah GD had uniforms like it may be [TS]

  marching band i don't think so i think [TS]

  was a rock band [TS]

  they did you really yeah they played out [TS]

  you know that kind of playing out where [TS]

  you play at your friends events and I'm [TS]

  guessing they probably would just assume [TS]

  you just brought ice [TS]

  I don't know children yeah yeah and so [TS]

  so he was in a amazing situation that I [TS]

  would have killed for which is he could [TS]

  just walk downstairs with his pals and [TS]

  there's a hole in the basement there's [TS]

  like a whole setup we could just walk [TS]

  down there and like play instruments [TS]

  will now hear this [TS]

  this just brings me to an interesting [TS]

  internal dilemma that I have which is [TS]

  that I went to a pop music conference [TS]

  last weekend when I was the keynote [TS]

  speaker [TS]

  haha it took place in Bellingham [TS]

  Washington [TS]

  yeah like where this is going and fat [TS]

  and so I I prepared this speech [TS]

  blah blah blah speech but I got to the [TS]

  top conference early in contravention of [TS]

  my normal method i'm showing up to an [TS]

  event one second before i take the stage [TS]

  it's better for security reasons if [TS]

  nothing else I when I went instead and i [TS]

  attended out maxing out in the green [TS]

  room for five hours [TS]

  well no he did not now he walked in and [TS]

  that was the beginning of a satisfactory [TS]

  could see the door so I go to this thing [TS]

  and I go to all these panels and it's [TS]

  happening in bellingham washington ice [TS]

  is sure to you sure you rather I do not [TS]

  assure to you to her [TS]

  mm-hmm I every one of these panels is [TS]

  blowing my mind and it's blowing my mind [TS]

  primarily because they're talking about [TS]

  pop music and pop news business but [TS]

  there is an element of like the the [TS]

  expectation of the panelists was that [TS]

  they would address some issues they [TS]

  would address the issue of social [TS]

  justice they would address the issue of [TS]

  community building and inclusiveness as [TS]

  they were answering questions about how [TS]

  do i get my band signed and how do I you [TS]

  know like how do i promote my record [TS]

  above via social media but how do I [TS]

  about also how do I further the cause of [TS]

  social justice and increased diversity [TS]

  into Poppins or in in like the music [TS]

  scene in general [TS]

  and and there was and there was a [TS]

  predictable amount of like sort of like [TS]

  mild college like bubbling hostility in [TS]

  that goes along with both the asker's [TS]

  and the answers of questions like that [TS]

  and the whole you know the whole day the [TS]

  premise was like um yeah hi um I'm just [TS]

  wondering why are there not more Inupiaq [TS]

  rock bands as anybody really thought [TS]

  about that and like maybe we should all [TS]

  look at our our playlists and see like [TS]

  that like we don't have any Inupiat [TS]

  bands and is that a problem [TS]

  I don't know i'm not sure my question is [TS]

  M and the end up for the person that's [TS]

  on the panel is like like someone who [TS]

  works in the music business and they're [TS]

  like uh ah I don't you know like like [TS]

  like absolutely flabbergasted at what [TS]

  how to try to answer that question [TS]

  well cast question maybe the were you [TS]

  aware and where the other panelists [TS]

  aware that social justice would be a [TS]

  focus of the bellingham pop conference [TS]

  or howhow prepared were you in your [TS]

  remarks for example [TS]

  yeah well my remarks had no elements no [TS]

  social social justice consideration in [TS]

  them since Ron hey Ron I was up there I [TS]

  was getting ready to give a keynote [TS]

  speech at this bar conference that was [TS]

  basically a hate crime and so on the fly [TS]

  I through my notes in the garbage can [TS]

  and I should recycle that's i did in [TS]

  fact i did in fact recycling and you [TS]

  know [TS]

  and truth be told i was using Merlin [TS]

  Mann three-by-five cards which I never [TS]

  used to do but i do it now and an homage [TS]

  to you thank you so so by the time I got [TS]

  to my by the time we arrived at my [TS]

  keynote speech i had been to 10 panels [TS]

  and every one of them have this kind of [TS]

  like we need to search our souls to see [TS]

  how we can make it easier for everybody [TS]

  in the world [TS]

  to become a rock star and and by that we [TS]

  don't mean like how to make it easier in [TS]

  the world for everybody to be a rock [TS]

  star and then also by the way how do i [TS]

  get my band on the radio and so i got up [TS]

  at things I mean just to be honest I [TS]

  mean being a rock star seems pretty [TS]

  phallocentric and patriarchal well don't [TS]

  you think I mean shouldn't we shouldn't [TS]

  we all be equal i can like I i could not [TS]

  speak to that and and and part of it was [TS]

  just that like being a rock star really [TS]

  i mean that's really that's really still [TS]

  thing that we do what I wanted in your [TS]

  guitar at the spot but I wanted to I [TS]

  wanted to address it because they were [TS]

  there were actually some very thoughtful [TS]

  panelists and and and in general you [TS]

  know I I feel like that I feel like that [TS]

  dialogue of like um hi [TS]

  yeah I I just feel like people with [TS]

  allergies should be allowed to play [TS]

  coachella but there's a lot of dust in [TS]

  the air so how do how do we make [TS]

  coachella accessible to people with [TS]

  allergies like I feel like that kind of [TS]

  question is is almost reflexive in like [TS]

  students now where they're not invested [TS]

  in in the question they are sitting in [TS]

  there sitting in a lecture hall and [TS]

  they're thinking how can i like how do i [TS]

  phrase a question that is going to be a [TS]

  that's going to be kind of a mic drop [TS]

  like nobody thought of that [TS]

  like I i found it i found a a [TS]

  under-represented group of people that [TS]

  nobody thought of and now you're all [TS]

  wishing that you had thought of our [TS]

  music is chella it's kinda it becomes a [TS]

  way of speaking truth to power [TS]

  yeah exactly not that much power there [TS]

  and probably a fairly scant amount of [TS]

  truth [TS]

  yeah that and there isn't and and and [TS]

  and it has become a scenario where [TS]

  people are not actually seeking equality [TS]

  anymore for anybody [TS]

  it is just a it's just a a game of like [TS]

  I have I have exposed [TS]

  the inequality and so gold star for me i [TS]

  asked a question and now I can go back [TS]

  to to facebooking and the professor the [TS]

  professor in every case is forced by by [TS]

  the by the energy or by the by the [TS]

  convention that he has to he or she has [TS]

  to consider that question legitimately [TS]

  you know what I mean like the professor [TS]

  the professor is not in a position to [TS]

  say you know what that's a that's an [TS]

  irrelevant question or or or rather [TS]

  rather the answer which is is ultimately [TS]

  true which is it is impossible to make [TS]

  the world completely accessible to [TS]

  everyone it is simply impossible and so [TS]

  every question phrased within the you [TS]

  know within the umbrella of our end game [TS]

  is to make everything absolutely even [TS]

  and fair is it is the same question [TS]

  basically and it doesn't matter whether [TS]

  you are saying in New Piet's or people [TS]

  with allergies or people with social [TS]

  anxiety disorder it is the same question [TS]

  over and over which is how do we make [TS]

  the world completely fair and we cannot [TS]

  so what we can do is inspire in certain [TS]

  places but it isn't but the game is not [TS]

  to just keep keep finding a smaller and [TS]

  smaller aperture you know [TS]

  yeah anyway so i get up at the pop [TS]

  conference and I say the the reality [TS]

  about making art is that the best art is [TS]

  made in reaction to restriction or [TS]

  limitation that the the the culture in [TS]

  prague in the seventies and sixties [TS]

  produced a whole generation of [TS]

  playwrights and artists that were [TS]

  working in reaction to the regime and as [TS]

  soon as the regime fell all of that art [TS]

  come in name up check play right now you [TS]

  can't really because who knows one and I [TS]

  think he passed [TS]

  well there was that one that became the [TS]

  president of the country you know that [TS]

  is that is the role that are played at [TS]

  that came up in a repressive regime now [TS]

  there are probably 1,000,000 check [TS]

  playwrights and none of them stand out [TS]

  and the reality is we have made making [TS]

  pop music incredibly easy there is no [TS]

  difficulty at all [TS]

  anyone of any age or gender can do as [TS]

  much pop music as they want but it has [TS]

  not improved the quality of pop music if [TS]

  you know what I mean like there are a [TS]

  million bands now and none of them are [TS]

  good because having a barrier to entry [TS]

  having it be difficult is what makes [TS]

  people make good art they make good art [TS]

  almost exactly because they are [TS]

  experiencing the challenge of being [TS]

  forced to make art as their primary [TS]

  voice you know it was me it's like [TS]

  making a diamond like you don't make a [TS]

  diamond by by spreading out the soil and [TS]

  bring it iced tea [TS]

  you know and and you know there has to [TS]

  be a certain for that passion to come [TS]

  out there has to be [TS]

  yeah maybe it's a reaction maybe there's [TS]

  influences but they're happy some some [TS]

  kind of a crucible I think in most cases [TS]

  but like in that the whole thing is so [TS]

  misdirected I don't even know where to [TS]

  begin [TS]

  like if so you're going to create social [TS]

  justice by coming in and talking about [TS]

  pop music in a room I I can't even I [TS]

  can't even begin to address that but but [TS]

  the other thing is like it [TS]

  are they are they people in bellingham I [TS]

  mean so i'm guessing it was an extremely [TS]

  diverse audience of people who had the [TS]

  time to come in and go to a pop music [TS]

  conference about social justice better [TS]

  zinc extraordinarily diverse there was [TS]

  no there was the white kid that was [TS]

  making it pop em there was the highways [TS]

  that was making aI don't know there was [TS]

  a there's a half asian guy but he was on [TS]

  a panel [TS]

  anyway the the the the point of all that [TS]

  was I have been I've been wrestling [TS]

  since the time my daughter was born with [TS]

  the fact that I have a house full of [TS]

  instruments [TS]

  and when i was growing up i bought my [TS]

  first guitar a while i bought my first [TS]

  guitar from my sisters friend who bought [TS]

  it at a swap meet [TS]

  she my sister had a friend who is she [TS]

  she and her friend we're going to start [TS]

  an all-girl duran duran cover band and [TS]

  my sister bought a keyboard and her [TS]

  friend Tracy butter guitar and they set [TS]

  up in the basement and they put their [TS]

  fedoras on and their scarves and their [TS]

  pirate shirts and they put on Rio and [TS]

  plugged in their keyboard in their [TS]

  guitar and and went back like like like [TS]

  like like like and they realize that [TS]

  they couldn't play these instruments and [TS]

  and didn't have a real interest in [TS]

  learning an instrument they just wanted [TS]

  to be in a drain cover band right it's [TS]

  so they say stacked the instruments in [TS]

  the corner where they SAT gathering dust [TS]

  and I walked past him everyday and [TS]

  looked at them and a about a month later [TS]

  I i said to the two girls i was like hey [TS]

  I'm guys gonna do anything with those [TS]

  and Tracy sold me her guitar for 25 [TS]

  bucks and my sister course out of spite [TS]

  said don't touch my keyboard and it sat [TS]

  in the corner she went off the ski sat [TS]

  in the corner [TS]

  she never touched it I never touched it [TS]

  it had an inch of dust on it eventually [TS]

  and then at one point she owed me some [TS]

  money and I was like I'll take that [TS]

  keyboard and she was happy to have it go [TS]

  so i ended up with all the duran duran [TS]

  cover band instruments [TS]

  I don't want to really from the daughter [TS]

  thing because I'd love to talk about [TS]

  that but there's this other part of this [TS]

  that obsesses me in the things that I [TS]

  think about which is on the one hand [TS]

  sort of trying to solve the wrong [TS]

  problem and how that's not how the best [TS]

  thing that you can do for somebody it if [TS]

  you had experienced similar experience [TS]

  is to help them understand that as Noble [TS]

  or as theoretically interesting as your [TS]

  goals are if you're trying to solve the [TS]

  wrong problem you're going to Burma [TS]

  screwed because and then you can just [TS]

  dig in further and get deeper and deeper [TS]

  and matter and matter and demonstrate [TS]

  more and more [TS]

  but you know I think our entire culture [TS]

  is trying to solve their own problems [TS]

  but will they sure are there's like [TS]

  three problems with this and then the [TS]

  second one is that you know carpenters [TS]

  who make a lot of furniture don't go to [TS]

  conferences and ask about social justice [TS]

  and carpentry they go out and they build [TS]

  lots of stuff and then they try to be [TS]

  decent human beings and they understand [TS]

  that those are are pretty different [TS]

  things if you don't get your hands [TS]

  around it [TS]

  you're never gonna solve the right [TS]

  problem that was persuaded there was one [TS]

  one panelist who said something very [TS]

  interesting because i am we we [TS]

  constantly hear about institutionalized [TS]

  inequality and I'm for people that are [TS]

  our age we've been hearing about it our [TS]

  whole our whole adult lives I mean this [TS]

  was a this was a concept that was [TS]

  introduced to us first but during the [TS]

  civil rights movement where where we we [TS]

  had to be educated to the fact that just [TS]

  because now blacks had the right to vote [TS]

  did not necessarily mean that they had [TS]

  equal opportunity in the in the country [TS]

  and it was a it was a process of [TS]

  Education of people who had never [TS]

  experienced deprivation that they had to [TS]

  learn like oh I see what you mean if you [TS]

  grow up in a place where there is you [TS]

  know where it where racism is [TS]

  institutionalized even if on the surface [TS]

  of things everybody has the same rights [TS]

  you really are having a very different [TS]

  experience of living in America and it [TS]

  is a tremendous it does present a [TS]

  tremendous disadvantage right so that [TS]

  was a process of Education that happened [TS]

  in America over the course of our our [TS]

  whole lives it's been happening and as [TS]

  time has gone on that franchise of [TS]

  disenfranchisement has been extended so [TS]

  then it was then immediately how you can [TS]

  take the build vocabulary and [TS]

  sensibilities of of really deeply [TS]

  systematically oppressed peoples and [TS]

  then apply to people with bikes right [TS]

  but but when when the when the you know [TS]

  the women's rights move [TS]

  happened it was a say it was a similar [TS]

  process of like oh wait a minute you [TS]

  mean even even well-to-do women who [TS]

  lived a comfortable lives in the city [TS]

  are also write disenfranchised wow [TS]

  that's a new that's a new mental [TS]

  technology and everybody never would [TS]

  have thought of that right yeah and it [TS]

  took years to sink in and again that [TS]

  happen throughout the course of our [TS]

  lives and and so then yeah then the [TS]

  franchise kept getting extended until [TS]

  now it's like people with people with [TS]

  allergies people with a myopia people [TS]

  with social anxiety disorder people with [TS]

  whatever and they are they are it you [TS]

  know making themselves equivalent to two [TS]

  people who have to actually struggle [TS]

  between hates that is people who [TS]

  actually struggled in well and also me i [TS]

  hate it too but but there's an [TS]

  expectancy I think there's a tendency [TS]

  among among everybody and in particular [TS]

  a dare I say it among those of us who [TS]

  who are constantly reminded that we [TS]

  benefit from the structure which is to [TS]

  say white men we benefit from the from [TS]

  the inequality and we benefit from [TS]

  unconsciously and they're there is a [TS]

  tendency on our part to say oh my god [TS]

  we've been hearing about this our whole [TS]

  lives [TS]

  can we can we stop fighting the same [TS]

  battle but I had had a very interesting [TS]

  it right i heard of an interesting thing [TS]

  on one of the panels which was a [TS]

  thoughtful woman who said you know when [TS]

  I was in fourth grade and i joined band [TS]

  i wanted to play the trumpet and i was [TS]

  guided by the hand over to the clarinets [TS]

  and flutes in and as she said it I was [TS]

  like well of course of course you were [TS]

  the clarinet and flute is the girls [TS]

  instrument of the trumpet is a boy's [TS]

  instrument and it it was a it was the [TS]

  most resonant [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  a example of of of this kind of like [TS]

  ingrained institutionalized gender role [TS]

  based inequality that i had heard in [TS]

  years [TS]

  you know because I because you're so [TS]

  used to being politicized about it and [TS]

  people's talking about like a like a [TS]

  friend of mine came home and said you [TS]

  know quoted the oft-quoted statistic [TS]

  like women are paid 72 cents on the [TS]

  dollar and I said is that true at your [TS]

  at your office or do you feel like you [TS]

  are paid 72 cents to the dollar that [TS]

  your comparably educated and talented [TS]

  co-workers paid and she said what no of [TS]

  course not right and I said does anyone [TS]

  you know work in an environment where [TS]

  that is the case and she said no and I [TS]

  said so what [TS]

  what is I mean I understand the [TS]

  statistic but but when you say it when [TS]

  you say it when you come home and say [TS]

  like women are paid 72 cents on the [TS]

  dollar it is a you say it with with a [TS]

  considerable amount of peak you are [TS]

  angry about it but it isn't something [TS]

  that you or anybody you know is [TS]

  personally experiencing so who are those [TS]

  people who are being paid 72 cents on [TS]

  the dollar if you guys if you if you are [TS]

  making the equivalent of your male [TS]

  counterparts that means in order for [TS]

  that statistic to be true [TS]

  there must be women somewhere in America [TS]

  who are being paid thirty cents on the [TS]

  dollar right and I wonder if they're [TS]

  really if if there if there are two [TS]

  people working the same job and one of [TS]

  them is because of her gender really [TS]

  being paid that much or if it's a [TS]

  statistic that has been massaged and [TS]

  repeated so many times that we take it [TS]

  as we take it as given without examining [TS]

  it i don't know where suffice [TS]

  say that I walked away from this [TS]

  experience both like kind of newly [TS]

  serious about this trumpet the trumpet [TS]

  flute trumpet discrimination the trumpet [TS]

  discrimination and also like and also my [TS]

  feeling was reinforced that that that no [TS]

  one is can no one is really talking [TS]

  about like what's the what is the [TS]

  long-term plan for this movement that [TS]

  has become an institution now it is a [TS]

  revolutionary movement to extend equal [TS]

  rights to all that is that is a Marxist [TS]

  argument ultimately to each according to [TS]

  his need from each according to his [TS]

  ability and we are we are very happy to [TS]

  fight little tiny battles about it all [TS]

  day every day my twitter feed is full of [TS]

  people saying well there's another [TS]

  example of a war on women and and then i [TS]

  click through the link and it's like [TS]

  something that just is it is just an [TS]

  interesting news article not [TS]

  particularly an example of a war on [TS]

  women [TS]

  I mean a you know it is just two parts [TS]

  is that the drive me a little bananas i [TS]

  mean the the metal part is I really I [TS]

  really resent being saddled with the [TS]

  idea that like because i think it's [TS]

  silly to live inside of these [TS]

  abstractions I don't think that these [TS]

  are important things I think they're [TS]

  important if you want to fucking raise [TS]

  want you to ask for one in because that [TS]

  yeah we can point to a million [TS]

  statistics about other people became [TS]

  point is statistics about ourselves but [TS]

  you know at the one on the one hand I [TS]

  understand why you would want to adopt [TS]

  that attitude because it can be very [TS]

  powerful and can help help bring people [TS]

  together but the second part is it [TS]

  always is so frequently seems to be [TS]

  about like legislating a change of heart [TS]

  and people that aren't you using all [TS]

  about like what [TS]

  let's sit around in this room and set an [TS]

  agenda for how we can make other people [TS]

  better you know and and like images [TS]

  ladies change of heart in someone who's [TS]

  not you [TS]

  yeah that's that is perfect that is a [TS]

  perfect description of it [TS]

  well if you if you want social justice [TS]

  want to get off your ass like once you [TS]

  stop treating it as a problem that needs [TS]

  to be solved by a panel of people in pop [TS]

  music and why don't you go out and do [TS]

  something and if you want the Rays ask [TS]

  for you can see if you want to still [TS]

  like hang your head and and talk about [TS]

  how like you know oppressed you are [TS]

  that's certainly something you're you're [TS]

  free to do but you know we've come a [TS]

  long way from the 1960s it if you go and [TS]

  you if you feel like you're getting 72 [TS]

  cents on the dollar ask for a fucking [TS]

  raise that's your that's who you are if [TS]

  you want to be going power yourself go [TS]

  get out there and do it and if you can [TS]

  find a way to bring social justice and [TS]

  pop music [TS]

  why don't you leave the fucking [TS]

  conference and go out there and do it [TS]

  get your hands around the problem learn [TS]

  which parts of it you can do something [TS]

  about and quit worrying about how to [TS]

  change the rest of the world because it [TS]

  doesn't work [TS]

  yeah the at I think that is the kind i [TS]

  think that is ultimately the thing that [TS]

  that is the string that resonates most [TS]

  deeply it's good enough women do that [TS]

  then it's not going to be a problem [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  well ultimately all these questions are [TS]

  our questions that are resolved when you [TS]

  raise your kids right and when you raise [TS]

  your kids to think differently and [TS]

  behave differently in the world and it [TS]

  really is a it really is a thing where [TS]

  you you change your own heart you [TS]

  evangelize yourself you are the primary [TS]

  mission field and then your family and [TS]

  really the I had a very interesting [TS]

  exchange of a few years ago on twitter [TS]

  where I when I asked somebody I I kind [TS]

  of asked the the group this exact [TS]

  question like can you through [TS]

  application of law [TS]

  really really changed the hearts and [TS]

  minds of the people or who are you [TS]

  you know i mean i think in America we [TS]

  see a lot of the division that we have [TS]

  now like the clear division between the [TS]

  two halves of our nation a lot of it is [TS]

  the product of trying to use [TS]

  prescriptive law to change the hearts [TS]

  and minds of half the population what [TS]

  what what a legacy of efficacy we have [TS]

  for that [TS]

  yeah so we keep saying I mean the [TS]

  abortion rights issue is a thing that we [TS]

  have been we've been fighting this [TS]

  battle of the bloody cultural battle [TS]

  that takes up all of our you know it [TS]

  takes up the whole center of our [TS]

  national dialogue and the the reality is [TS]

  that the that Roe versus Wade was a [TS]

  badly decided piece of law and that's [TS]

  why it's constantly under assault [TS]

  because they think they can beat it [TS]

  they think it's bad law and they think [TS]

  they have a shot at the the [TS]

  anti-abortion people yeah the Act the [TS]

  anti-abortion people think they can beat [TS]

  it because it's it is bad law and it's [TS]

  just a matter of time before the right [TS]

  combination of supreme court justices [TS]

  decide to look at it you know it in the [TS]

  narrow confines of the of the legal [TS]

  decision and overturn it not be not on a [TS]

  moral basis but overturn it because it's [TS]

  you know because it was kind of a shitty [TS]

  piece of legal thinking but you know the [TS]

  reality i think is that it bro vs wade [TS]

  was overturned there would be there [TS]

  would be an immediate and mad rush to [TS]

  write new law in its place that was [TS]

  better [TS]

  I mean the of the best thing that could [TS]

  happen to the abortion rights movement [TS]

  is that Roe versus Wade be overturned [TS]

  because the next piece of law would be [TS]

  ironclad [TS]

  I mean I feel like the I feel like the [TS]

  Ark of social justice is long are they [TS]

  are the arc of history is long but it [TS]

  points toward social justice [TS]

  I think that's absolutely true i think [TS]

  that that it is inevitable that we are [TS]

  becoming more liberal and more inclusive [TS]

  and more accessible to everyone right [TS]

  but but we keep trying to we keep trying [TS]

  to use the the lever of law to bring all [TS]

  these people that are that are Gina that [TS]

  really all we can do is kind of wait for [TS]

  them to die and wait for their kid wait [TS]

  for their kids to approve gay marriage [TS]

  you know that we could have made gay [TS]

  marriage legal by the force of law 25 [TS]

  years ago and it would have it would [TS]

  have sparked a armed insurrection in the [TS]

  South but we suffered those 20 years and [TS]

  now it's happening and it's happening [TS]

  not because we check now because the law [TS]

  forced people and not because which [TS]

  really change anybody's minds but just [TS]

  because the young people came up and [TS]

  they liked MTV and they watched Sheena [TS]

  queen of the desert and they're like [TS]

  yeah that seems reasonable and they're [TS]

  just attitudes changed and this is that [TS]

  you know I remember being great [TS]

  persuaded by by malcolm x and x a martin [TS]

  luther king when they said you know all [TS]

  wherever told by YT is that we need to [TS]

  wait it's not time yet we need to wait [TS]

  and we're done waiting we're tired of [TS]

  waiting [TS]

  that and the time is now and I and and [TS]

  that was very persuasive and it produced [TS]

  it produced real action real motion that [TS]

  had you know where culturally we were [TS]

  stalled in this weird separate-but-equal [TS]

  miasma [TS]

  but there but that mentality like when [TS]

  you say well you know after after fifty [TS]

  thousand years like maybe get maybe give [TS]

  it another ten when you when you say [TS]

  that now what we're talking about sort [TS]

  of any kind of kind of sea change in the [TS]

  culture you say that to a group of [TS]

  people and they're they're so quick to [TS]

  say like that's what every white man [TS]

  says wait don't think about going back [TS]

  to asking for a raise just as a [TS]

  practical example you know if you if you [TS]

  it's obviously it's more related to your [TS]

  own merits but if you've ever had a job [TS]

  you know that there's some really good [TS]

  time to ask for a raise and some [TS]

  terrible times to ask for the Rays and [TS]

  if you really do want to raise I really [TS]

  isn't completely related but if you want [TS]

  to get a raise and it means a lot to you [TS]

  you have to prepare for that you have to [TS]

  have you have to know all of the facts [TS]

  and understand them in context with [TS]

  reality and the truth is there are [TS]

  better and worse time to ask for a raise [TS]

  but if you are prepared when that time [TS]

  does come you're gonna have a much [TS]

  better chance whether or not like have [TS]

  no matter how much you want it doesn't [TS]

  matter what matters is whether you're [TS]

  prepared and and then in context can ask [TS]

  it at the right time where somebody will [TS]

  of course i'll give you a raise not [TS]

  stupid but you know but the fact just [TS]

  doesn't kind of kind of doesn't it can [TS]

  matter how much you want it and [TS]

  certainly there have been things that [TS]

  changed but but i'm with you and you [TS]

  know there's two times that I I feel a [TS]

  little bit p kid from you again things [TS]

  like Twitter but also just the whole [TS]

  world like obviously doing sports events [TS]

  but the other thing is during elections [TS]

  because every election or anytime [TS]

  there's some kind of political tumbled [TS]

  going on everybody's pick their side [TS]

  ec least in my Twitter feed or amongst [TS]

  my friends I see everybody locking arms [TS]

  to make fun of the other side to [TS]

  browbeat them to call them stupid and to [TS]

  talk about all the ways that they're [TS]

  wrong wrong wrong and wrong wrong and [TS]

  this is this is maybe really reductive [TS]

  but this is how I look at it I will ask [TS]

  you exactly one question when is the [TS]

  last time that somebody calling you [TS]

  stupid and saying how little you knew [TS]

  change your mind because people can sit [TS]

  around all day long and [TS]

  funny Fox TV and shoot fish in a [TS]

  conservative barrel but honestly if [TS]

  you're so goddamn smart when is the last [TS]

  time that you sat and watched fox news [TS]

  and heard about how stupid you are and [TS]

  you want you know what I am kind of [TS]

  stupid [TS]

  I don't think people do that i don't [TS]

  think it's effective and all it does i [TS]

  mean on a larger scale obviously it just [TS]

  makes us more you know we start to see [TS]

  the other side is inhuman and as soon as [TS]

  you see that quote unquote other side to [TS]

  begin with let you know what we're all [TS]

  kind of in the same pot and the more we [TS]

  try and find some kind of a common [TS]

  ground and certainly the politicians do [TS]

  the better off there but I'm trying to [TS]

  say is like you know in addition to this [TS]

  being an incredibly complex problem with [TS]

  a million different angles [TS]

  I don't think you change hearts and [TS]

  minds through either legislation or by [TS]

  making fun of people [TS]

  yeah you know and you consider [TS]

  reconsidering around a room all day long [TS]

  and and come up with some kind of bill [TS]

  of rights for people who play mandolins [TS]

  but i'm not sure that's going to make [TS]

  black people any better off when it [TS]

  comes time to go to bonnaroo em whoa [TS]

  there's a lot of impact in that last [TS]

  sound angry there's a thing on there is [TS]

  nothing on out that you know local or [TS]

  the California Public Radio think today [TS]

  that was really got me thinking I think [TS]

  it's related and it has to do with the [TS]

  aging population the last the oldest of [TS]

  the oldest of baby boomers turned she is [TS]

  the youngest baby boomers turn like 65 [TS]

  this year the point being that there are [TS]

  fewer and fewer there are more people [TS]

  who are going to need benefits or what [TS]

  benefits that they have coming to them [TS]

  and fewer and fewer people that are [TS]

  going to be able to supply it right and [TS]

  you know what compounds that hugely is [TS]

  that due to things like the bat like bad [TS]

  economies and things like legislation we [TS]

  don't have enough immigrants coming here [TS]

  anymore and we don't have enough illegal [TS]

  immigrants coming here anymore and so [TS]

  all the sudden everything that we did to [TS]

  keep immigrants from coming here through [TS]

  legislation and so forth is now harming [TS]

  california in addition to have a lot [TS]

  less people that does to sit there in [TS]

  the Sun and pick lettuce that no white [TS]

  person was to pick now we also have this [TS]

  bigger problem of we're not gonna be [TS]

  able to pay for all of these things so I [TS]

  mean to me there's unintended [TS]

  consequences to all these sorts of [TS]

  things but it really comes down to [TS]

  getting off your ass [TS]

  get off twitter and could do something [TS]

  about it if it matters to you want to do [TS]

  something about it you know Martin [TS]

  Luther King did not sit around typing a [TS]

  hundred forty characters and try to [TS]

  change the world [TS]

  it's just that you know you're not [TS]

  invested in that you're invested until [TS]

  the next to change a color your icon an [TS]

  angry now and we're going to get us on [TS]

  the next thing comes along I'm less [TS]

  worried about people you know the [TS]

  chattering classes on Twitter and and [TS]

  and but they think they're helping John [TS]

  well I know but I don't contributing to [TS]

  the body politic but I don't care about [TS]

  them but now the real that the the real [TS]

  difference that is that if that's [TS]

  happening among people who really are [TS]

  off their asses and doing things [TS]

  um is that you know the that that that [TS]

  the fundamental liberal project has been [TS]

  since the since the fifties but but [TS]

  really since the sixties to imagine that [TS]

  we are creating a utopia in America and [TS]

  there are a lot of people who who don't [TS]

  want it or don't get it and we're going [TS]

  to help them along by forcing them to [TS]

  open their mind that will try education [TS]

  you know what will try to educate them [TS]

  if it doesn't work we can we get a big [TS]

  hammer here [TS]

  yeah and and through through a lot of [TS]

  like Great Society style like sort of [TS]

  big projects like busing and housing [TS]

  projects and you know of a legislative [TS]

  approach and a social engineering [TS]

  approach liberalism said about to create [TS]

  a utopia by dragging people along [TS]

  kicking and screaming and not not not [TS]

  everybody of course but but dragging the [TS]

  recalcitrant people along who straps and [TS]

  you know there was a moment sometime in [TS]

  the seventies and I and I sense this you [TS]

  know i said at this moment where [TS]

  crackpot conservatism became mainstream [TS]

  was there was this there was just this [TS]

  this overflow point right around the [TS]

  time that that governments were saying [TS]

  well you know you can no longer have an [TS]

  all-male a smoking club like you and [TS]

  your buddies started this club you sit [TS]

  around smoking cigars but it is [TS]

  discriminatory that your that you have a [TS]

  requirement that it be all dude so you [TS]

  have to open the doors and well at the [TS]

  at the moment where we reach down into [TS]

  the culture and started saying in [TS]

  general you can no longer you can no [TS]

  longer be just some dudes in a in a club [TS]

  you have it's against the law now that [TS]

  was the that was the personal moment I [TS]

  think we're conservatism at became the [TS]

  ascendant movement because there are [TS]

  just a lot of people in the world who [TS]

  instinctively do not want to be told who [TS]

  they can hang out with and it isn't a [TS]

  that their response wasn't yet coming [TS]

  from a place of of racism or sexism it [TS]

  was coming from a deeply personal place [TS]

  where some suddenly somebody with a [TS]

  clipboard somebody like that EPA agent [TS]

  in Ghost Busters guy an officious you [TS]

  know government employee with a [TS]

  clipboard was saying thank man shut it [TS]

  down and and people just like the people [TS]

  tell the farmers they can't build [TS]

  skyscrapers right ma no remember thing [TS]

  about land rights and the Holy right [TS]

  exactly exactly that's always somebody [TS]

  and the thing about the thing about the [TS]

  land rights question is it is persuasive [TS]

  to me because we are all we are all [TS]

  using the same water and the same suit [TS]

  and likewise the the the the men's club [TS]

  argument is persuasive in the sense that [TS]

  we are all using the same water in the [TS]

  same sewage but this was the moment [TS]

  where where people who already felt like [TS]

  the this liberal project was pushing [TS]

  them against their will [TS]

  you know what their heels dug in pushing [TS]

  them toward a world that they couldn't [TS]

  see and didn't understand and then it [TS]

  became a precipitate got personally it [TS]

  came down to their streets exactly where [TS]

  it was like wait a minute now I can't [TS]

  even now I can't even higher my [TS]

  brother-in-law because it's one thing [TS]

  for California to come up with a bunch [TS]

  of free stuff for mon or whatever but [TS]

  now you're you really are literally in [TS]

  my backyard [TS]

  you're down you're down here like [TS]

  telling me how to do my business right [TS]

  and from you know from up high [TS]

  liberalism said well this is how it has [TS]

  to happen we have to go around like that [TS]

  scene in Doctor Zhivago where we were [TS]

  all of a sudden post-revolution dr. [TS]

  Zhivago and his family who used to live [TS]

  in a 30 room mansion are now there's a [TS]

  knock on the door and there's a woman [TS]

  with a clipboard and she is moving other [TS]

  dis you know she's moving families into [TS]

  their home and increasingly the [TS]

  Chicago's are now they're just living on [TS]

  one floor their home and pretty soon the [TS]

  whole family is living in one room [TS]

  curtains off with sheets sounds a lot [TS]

  like Warsaw now right yeah well that's [TS]

  exactly right and and and the premise is [TS]

  like how could you jog owes have been [TS]

  living in such luxury while people were [TS]

  poor on the street you know people were [TS]

  dying in the cold and now everybody's [TS]

  living together in a rat's Warren if [TS]

  you're holding the collective of [TS]

  equality in your old family mansion and [TS]

  congratulations now you know we have [TS]

  arrived at a at at ya Marxist equality [TS]

  which is squalor for koala for all but [TS]

  but that you know feeling trying to feel [TS]

  sympathy [TS]

  it's very hard now to hear somebody [TS]

  you from Arkansas or somebody even from [TS]

  Seattle who is who has a large dodge [TS]

  truck that maybe maybe has some truck [TS]

  nuts hanging from the back bumper but [TS]

  those are illegal in California new [TS]

  clothes they are listening to them you [TS]

  know bitch and moan with it with a ton [TS]

  of vitriol about how obama is coming to [TS]

  force them to to accept medical [TS]

  insurance [TS]

  it's very hard for the liberal [TS]

  sensibilities to not feel like what is [TS]

  the matter with you cry babies my god [TS]

  like man up but the fact is that they're [TS]

  expressing their expressing a discontent [TS]

  that's 40 years old that is really a [TS]

  discontent with the with the with the [TS]

  premise of the whole liberal project [TS]

  which is that we are headed toward a [TS]

  utopia and you are coming whether you [TS]

  like it or not and you something that's [TS]

  kind of authentic about that whether I [TS]

  agree with it or not there's this basic [TS]

  thing that I i said this before but i [TS]

  really believe there aren't that many [TS]

  people who think they're stupid [TS]

  I think most people think other people [TS]

  are stupid very few people say you know [TS]

  what I'm really stupid and need people [TS]

  to massage my understanding of the world [TS]

  in such a way that I can be a good [TS]

  citizen but the key thing about being [TS]

  ignorant is that you are first primarily [TS]

  ignorant of how stupid you are that's [TS]

  the difference between to me the dancing [TS]

  stupidity and ignorance ignorance can be [TS]

  cured if if you you know can learn that [TS]

  but you you're onto something i think [TS]

  which is that people i think this is my [TS]

  might be shooting fish in a liberal [TS]

  barrel here maybe going to the whole [TS]

  foods barrel but you know it's funny to [TS]

  me than all of the barrel [TS]

  oh it's hard to say no it's amazing to [TS]

  me like how many people you know you [TS]

  live in pac heights you live in berkeley [TS]

  and you're you're very very comfortable [TS]

  in your surroundings by and large and [TS]

  you're more than happy to institute [TS]

  busting your more than happy to [TS]

  institute you know I'll whatever public [TS]

  housing what you know what we have your [TS]

  house for public housing tweet us your [TS]

  kid across town is that cool with you [TS]

  are you really are you really super into [TS]

  that something some people are i have [TS]

  really good friends here and [TS]

  out that moved here and it's frustrating [TS]

  moved here specifically to be part of [TS]

  the great San Francisco experiment right [TS]

  they use public transit they have a they [TS]

  have their kid go to the school that [TS]

  like it's a sign to them and that's it's [TS]

  difficult sometimes but their values [TS]

  around that are to me much more [TS]

  authentic than people who are going in [TS]

  and you know astroturfing polls on CNN [TS]

  and make sure the right side wins [TS]

  because i don't think i've set again I [TS]

  don't think you care about something [TS]

  until you've sacrificed for it and if [TS]

  you care that much about all that stuff [TS]

  like why don't you put your money where [TS]

  your mouth is you put your life where [TS]

  your mouth is because it's if you agree [TS]

  if you just stipulate for one week that [TS]

  you're stupid and you need other people [TS]

  to tell you what to do your eyes open to [TS]

  how the world operates and you see that [TS]

  there's much more to this persuasion of [TS]

  utopian or otherwise of trying to get [TS]

  somewhere better than telling people [TS]

  that they're stupid and need to be [TS]

  hammered into complicity or into you [TS]

  know submission [TS]

  I just wish that you know liberalism is [TS]

  very self-reflective in some ways narrow [TS]

  corridors but there is not a historic [TS]

  self-reflection that applies to what [TS]

  we've been doing since world war two and [TS]

  if if we were able as a culture to look [TS]

  back and say um we tore down all of the [TS]

  tenement buildings on the lower east [TS]

  side and we built massive brick housing [TS]

  projects and we did it because we were [TS]

  we were so we're solving all these [TS]

  problems hygiene problems we were we [TS]

  were solving the the incredible mess the [TS]

  unruly mess of downtown New York that [TS]

  was full of immigrants and we could and [TS]

  nobody you know everybody was just [TS]

  waiting through sewage and and there [TS]

  were there was a watch shop next to a [TS]

  hat shop [TS]

  how can this stand we're going to we're [TS]

  going to bulldoze it we're gonna pull [TS]

  those block after block and we're going [TS]

  to build these neat and tidy housing [TS]

  projects [TS]

  this giant government undertaking and [TS]

  we're going to provide a clean and [TS]

  secure neighborhood environment for [TS]

  people and it's going to uplift the [TS]

  people that we can social engineer that [TS]

  by design [TS]

  yeah and the to look at that [TS]

  now you see like oh my god what a [TS]

  misguided approach like the [TS]

  cabrini-green projects in Chicago became [TS]

  the most dangerous place in the universe [TS]

  a place where the police [TS]

  well I was driving to Chicago one time [TS]

  in the in the mid-eighties and I was [TS]

  advised by a policeman not to stop at [TS]

  red lights and I said message received [TS]

  like he's that don't you just don't [TS]

  through this part of the city i would [TS]

  not i would not wait for the light to [TS]

  change you know we had this neat idea [TS]

  that we would find a way to take all of [TS]

  the desperate people with nothing to [TS]

  lose and then stack them up like [TS]

  cordwood well and in a place where we we [TS]

  did not have we have the mandate to tear [TS]

  down the old neighborhood and build this [TS]

  but we did not have the mandate to fund [TS]

  it right we did not have the mandated to [TS]

  to follow through on that which is you [TS]

  that you don't just you don't just tear [TS]

  down people's neighborhoods and put them [TS]

  in high-rises and then automatically [TS]

  they have become a philosopher scholars [TS]

  like you then also have to have the [TS]

  money to make those schools in that [TS]

  neighborhood the best schools there are [TS]

  and have job training programs and the [TS]

  and it does not work if if you you are [TS]

  also experiencing a nationwide decline [TS]

  in manufacturing and even though you [TS]

  can't you can't do that and then also [TS]

  closed all the factories and but but but [TS]

  we are it is very hard for us to look [TS]

  back at that and say that was a liberal [TS]

  project with the with the end goal of [TS]

  creating a utopia and what it created [TS]

  was a blight and it created it created [TS]

  in a lot of ways it precipitated the [TS]

  death of the inner-city that took [TS]

  foresters don't was still trying to [TS]

  recover from we're still trying to [TS]

  recover from [TS]

  that's right [TS]

  and you know the story of Detroit is [TS]

  that when they were building the [TS]

  interstate highway system they slammed [TS]

  the interstate right through the heart [TS]

  of Detroit's most vibrant black [TS]

  neighborhood and they just they just cut [TS]

  it in half and and killed it in in one [TS]

  fell swoop and it it produced so much [TS]

  anger in the city of Detroit in the in [TS]

  what was at the time you know a very [TS]

  vibrant and alive black community of [TS]

  music and art that you know Detroit went [TS]

  through 12 40 years where it was [TS]

  recreational to go burn down abandoned [TS]

  houses like that was something that [TS]

  people did on weekends like let's go [TS]

  burn some houses because they had lost [TS]

  badly they could completely lost their [TS]

  feeling that the city belong to them and [TS]

  talk about everybody in Detroit you know [TS]

  because of this [TS]

  what was what was eventually what was [TS]

  ultimately i'm not saying the [TS]

  interstates worse it were just a liberal [TS]

  project they were Eisenhower II and they [TS]

  also support industry it would make make [TS]

  it easier for people in the suburbs to [TS]

  get to their job was it was a big it was [TS]

  a big social engineering concept like [TS]

  here's what we're going to do that [TS]

  instead of being stuck in traffic all [TS]

  day when doing your way into this little [TS]

  neighborhood where the hat shop is next [TS]

  to the watch shop [TS]

  we're gonna just tear it all down we're [TS]

  going to build a big spaceport out of [TS]

  brick everybody's guys need some [TS]

  modernity they really do we need to [TS]

  bring some Brutalism in here and [TS]

  independent is going to improve every [TS]

  the quality of everybody's life and [TS]

  fifty years from now everybody is going [TS]

  to be dancing like in those buck rogers [TS]

  television shows in the early eighties [TS]

  where people are holding onto that their [TS]

  whole holding on to my place your calls [TS]

  or something holding onto ribbons and [TS]

  pleasure balls and they're dancing [TS]

  around to brian eno music and that's [TS]

  going to be the future if we just get [TS]

  rid of all this all up of if we just get [TS]

  rid of the center of the city where [TS]

  people who are living as people [TS]

  naturally do which is frankly like but [TS]

  pigs [TS]

  but that's who we are you know so I wish [TS]

  that I wish that liberalism had the [TS]

  capacity as a as a as a as a [TS]

  forward-thinking like ideology to do a [TS]

  little bit of backward-looking and say [TS]

  we have we have tried to engineer a [TS]

  utopia multiple times where education [TS]

  and government action enlightened the [TS]

  people and expand once it was patiently [TS]

  explained to them that equal rights for [TS]

  all was was beneficial and economically [TS]

  like advantageous everybody got it and [TS]

  then we were living in a we were living [TS]

  in a future world where all the children [TS]

  are Mochaccino colored and we sit around [TS]

  on the steps of our pantheon and reed st [TS]

  louis plays to one another and that is [TS]

  the America that we hoped for and [TS]

  inspire to but everybody and and frankly [TS]

  a lot of things a lot of things we've [TS]

  tried have worked great but but that the [TS]

  the resentment that you feel in America [TS]

  about big government telling you what to [TS]

  do is that there are people that really [TS]

  were and and what's amazing is that the [TS]

  people that were most affected by the [TS]

  liberal bigger big government projects [TS]

  they are still Democrats it's the it's [TS]

  the people that were kind of on the [TS]

  outside looking in and going you know [TS]

  the people that got out to the suburbs [TS]

  that looked back at the city and said [TS]

  you know liberalism is bankrupt and when [TS]

  I when I think about it that way I [TS]

  haven't I have I still I still have a [TS]

  very hard time being yelled at by [TS]

  conservatives but I do sympathize with [TS]

  their with with some of the evidence [TS]

  that they're able to to muster that like [TS]

  this this this mentality which is [TS]

  we are coming into your homes and we're [TS]

  going to explain to you why you're wrong [TS]

  and then we're going to deprive you of [TS]

  your of what you consider to be your [TS]

  rights and it's in service of the [TS]

  greater good and you're gonna like it or [TS]

  not doesn't matter [TS]

  go fuck yourself also god is dead [TS]

  whoo free pot for everybody act like PCP [TS]

  I see why they're bent out of shape I [TS]

  totally do [TS]

  I you know it I want to get back to your [TS]

  teen out in a minute if we can't but you [TS]

  know it reminds me I I think I guess [TS]

  somebody from the north in you know the [TS]

  literal and figurative sense i don't [TS]

  think they really understood a lot about [TS]

  the civil war until I met my friend [TS]

  Richard and read some Faulkner and I got [TS]

  a really different point of view into it [TS]

  and I started to really and what's that [TS]

  well yeah because we think that we're in [TS]

  the north we are top better that [TS]

  everybody in the south is like Bo and [TS]

  Luke Duke well we'll write and and I [TS]

  mean my understanding of it is that part [TS]

  of part of what made things so [TS]

  complicated in the you know beginning to [TS]

  middle part of the 19th century was that [TS]

  you know slavery it would be glib to [TS]

  call it a MacGuffin but it's certainly [TS]

  worth mentioning that it'sit's wasn't [TS]

  just slavery it was a matter of telling [TS]

  us how to live like whether you like or [TS]

  don't like slavery it ends up being [TS]

  Jermaine but the deeper issue is we [TS]

  didn't I guess it seems like the north [TS]

  maybe i don't know i'm not historian but [TS]

  it seems to me that they the North [TS]

  didn't flicks that except the extent to [TS]

  which people in Virginia we're going to [TS]

  be put off by us telling these as you [TS]

  say these you know people from Scotland [TS]

  who are really used to autonomy and and [TS]

  and they've got their own mature culture [TS]

  we animate we may not like they're [TS]

  mature culture and they're doing what [TS]

  what I would personally consider awful [TS]

  awful things and but at the same time II [TS]

  we're going down there in like we're [TS]

  really poking the bowl in the i think by [TS]

  not acknowledging what we were facing [TS]

  from people who thought that their [TS]

  culture was fine just the way it is [TS]

  thank you very much [TS]

  and and we make about slavery because it [TS]

  should be about slavery I'm sure glad [TS]

  it's gone but at the same time one [TS]

  reason that was such a bloody war is [TS]

  that they did not feel it in some ways [TS]

  it wouldn't matter it was certainly [TS]

  bigger their economy but they want [TS]

  people telling them how to make their t [TS]

  you just don't tell people in the South [TS]

  what to do and you know and and I I [TS]

  think that's still I think that's still [TS]

  true today I mean if we don't and I just [TS]

  wanna be clear I'm not saying slavery [TS]

  was a great idea but like that's the [TS]

  problem we can't have these [TS]

  conversations it's a constant production [TS]

  of third rails about all the things that [TS]

  are off-limits because we've all decided [TS]

  that we understand this story and i'm [TS]

  just here to say I don't think we always [TS]

  understand that story and RR amount of [TS]

  certainty about how right we are how [TS]

  wrong everybody else is and how much [TS]

  they need to be rehabilitated to our [TS]

  learning point of view is an affliction [TS]

  especially on the on the left and right [TS]

  coasts that we really feel like we need [TS]

  to salute sweep in and and set these [TS]

  folks straight now by Kennedy goes he [TS]

  goes to Kentucky any he literally cries [TS]

  because he sees what poverty people are [TS]

  living in but you know what [TS]

  he didn't he didn't go back and then [TS]

  post things on facebook he understood [TS]

  that welfare is an incredibly complex [TS]

  problem to solve and it's going to take [TS]

  more than just this one angle to even [TS]

  begin to fix this problem and I I admire [TS]

  that you know he didn't just sit around [TS]

  and he didn't just take photos support [TS]

  people and come back and show it to [TS]

  everybody in Hyannisport he did [TS]

  something about it and but he also [TS]

  acknowledged that it was very [TS]

  complicated [TS]

  yeah he got shot to a really good point [TS]

  so you be the the thing about the the [TS]

  thing about the Civil War is that you [TS]

  know III understanding exactly what [TS]

  you're getting at but the but the Civil [TS]

  War was was just about slavery [TS]

  yeah just the a12 and the other argument [TS]

  that it was about anything else is a is [TS]

  a kind of like yes that's it's [TS]

  everything that they say is true but it [TS]

  is a kind of revisionism too because the [TS]

  United States was fighting a war about [TS]

  slavery for 25 years before the Civil [TS]

  War or 450 years before the Civil War [TS]

  ultimately yeah you can look back and [TS]

  say that was about slavery because that [TS]

  was a that was a thing that we were [TS]

  going to have to fight a bloody [TS]

  pleasantly shot each other about that's [TS]

  what that's what we shot each other [TS]

  about and that and and and the [TS]

  underlying causes which like you're [TS]

  saying is this clash of cultures between [TS]

  the Cavaliers and the and the the [TS]

  Quakers or whatever [TS]

  yes that's all true and it's all written [TS]

  in it but but at and and maybe you could [TS]

  make an argument that all of these [TS]

  liberal projects of the 20th century [TS]

  have been incremental wars that have [TS]

  prevented what could have been a much [TS]

  bigger worse war in 1967 it was it was [TS]

  plausible to people in 1967 that we were [TS]

  headed to a conflict on the scale of the [TS]

  civil war in the sense that people were [TS]

  really like this and watch riots that is [TS]

  exactly like burning cities fighting in [TS]

  the streets insurrection that wasn't [TS]

  such a scary time for everybody really [TS]

  scary and and people you know and and [TS]

  and what I will it hadn't happened was [TS]

  we hadn't had 40 years of talking about [TS]

  it to make it seem to make those ideas [TS]

  seem I mean even even the most the the [TS]

  biggest conservative zealot is familiar [TS]

  with the concept of a sort of every [TS]

  liberal totem but at the at the time in [TS]

  1967 I mean here there were there were [TS]

  great swaths of just normal American [TS]

  people that were still wrestling with [TS]

  the concept of of conscientious [TS]

  objectors like wait a minute what it why [TS]

  wouldn't you want to go fight for [TS]

  America in a war like they did it wasn't [TS]

  even they couldn't get their heads [TS]

  around it so so maybe maybe we have been [TS]

  fighting these small battles and it has [TS]

  released the pressure that would have [TS]

  built up [TS]

  would be to be a larger conflict the [TS]

  civil war was inevitable and there [TS]

  wasn't a way they tried they tried for [TS]

  the 4 30 years beforehand to legislate [TS]

  their way around the problem and and [TS]

  concessions were made to the South like [TS]

  you wouldn't believe we were I mean the [TS]

  people in the north and Congress you [TS]

  know they went back and forth just like [TS]

  oh I would you like to have thursday [TS]

  afternoons reserved for mint juleps when [TS]

  we will make that national law if it [TS]

  will it if if you will just concede that [TS]

  that maybe you know free blacks can go [TS]

  across Kansas without being like [TS]

  bullwhipped by children so and it's not [TS]

  starting with like saying an egg and I [TS]

  should watch Lincoln again but it's not [TS]

  starting with saying like tomorrow [TS]

  your daughter has to marry a negro it [TS]

  started with something much more simply [TS]

  like can you just be less of a dick [TS]

  about this is never get horny lives they [TS]

  were I mean they were arguing it in my [TS]

  in the Constitutional Congress something [TS]

  they were arguing that these questions [TS]

  all the way back and the South was just [TS]

  well just contemptuous and immobile and [TS]

  eventually never sending more kicks it [TS]

  was good it was going to be a war you [TS]

  know the the the British outlawed [TS]

  slavery in 1802 or something so so that [TS]

  so that whole like the southern argument [TS]

  that the Civil War was really about [TS]

  states rights or whatever it is that [TS]

  people [TS]

  people [TS]

  want to say it's about it wasn't it was [TS]

  about it was about that this was a thing [TS]

  that needed to be resolved and some [TS]

  people were just going to have to die [TS]

  over it and the reality is looking back [TS]

  in at America for the last 50 years in [TS]

  1957 I can't imagine standing in that [TS]

  place and not maybe picturing that we [TS]

  were going to have to have another that [TS]

  we're gonna have to have a a war every [TS]

  hundred years about this stuff and [TS]

  somehow we we fought a terrible cultural [TS]

  war but somehow we avoided taking up [TS]

  arms and I mean other conspiracy [TS]

  theories with theorists would say that [TS]

  it was because the CIA started a crack [TS]

  epidemic but you know and the FBI [TS]

  definitely like worked really hard to [TS]

  get the black panthers to fight [TS]

  themselves but the reality is we we [TS]

  tried a lot of different things to move [TS]

  the move the culture forward so we [TS]

  didn't have to fight a bruising [TS]

  revolution [TS]

  I don't know I don't know how we'd [TS]

  illegal in the United States not in [TS]

  Washington and then California past [TS]

  medical marijuana in the nineties he's [TS]

  an apple in san francisco or you know [TS]

  and in the bay area especially you can [TS]

  go out and you just it's just weed [TS]

  everywhere here we did but here's the [TS]

  funny part so there was you couldn't [TS]

  have had died i can i'm not up [TS]

  I don't know lots of things but but use [TS]

  there's a pretty strong federal law [TS]

  against this and you can agree or [TS]

  disagree with it but then they can with [TS]

  the California Medical Marijuana do this [TS]

  they have this great thing years and [TS]

  years ago where they attached federal [TS]

  highway money to drug policy and if you [TS]

  wanted to make something with having to [TS]

  be 21 to buy alcohol [TS]

  yeah if you wanted to change those laws [TS]

  in your state that was fine but you [TS]

  would sacrifice all of your federal [TS]

  highway money experience turned to shit [TS]

  was it was it was incredible it was a [TS]

  incredible no state dared cross the [TS]

  federal government because they were [TS]

  like yeah sure change your policy all [TS]

  one but but now the beauty part is that [TS]

  they're trying on a local level you go [TS]

  to the next level and now on a local [TS]

  level people are trying to legislate [TS]

  stuff like was owning for things like [TS]

  you know we can have a pot dispensary ok [TS]

  and now the people are freaking out [TS]

  because they say it can be within a half [TS]

  a mile obviously keep your hands keep [TS]

  your hands your hands off my weed law [TS]

  hippie it's like you're ok with the with [TS]

  passing these backdoor laws for the [TS]

  thing that suits you but like as soon as [TS]

  somebody in the neighborhood [TS]

  Oh local make it local you can have its [TS]

  okay its cool you can have bong city set [TS]

  up next to the preschool or whatever [TS]

  fine whatever [TS]

  but now with somebody else in a sauce [TS]

  for the gander now somebody else is [TS]

  getting actually you know what let's use [TS]

  the law and the law is going to be that [TS]

  there's going to be zoning on this and [TS]

  you know luckily I think they're pretty [TS]

  confused hopefully won't be a huge issue [TS]

  yeah I i saw map of like concentric [TS]

  circles around all the schools in san [TS]

  francisco and if you know if you can't [TS]

  build a pot dispensary within 500 yards [TS]

  of the school the closest but Spencer [TS]

  you could build is somewhere like on the [TS]

  road to Sacramento it's also hard on sex [TS]

  offenders [TS]

  alright and i'm gonna live in opa be no [TS]

  I'm peeing outside as you and I enjoy so [TS]

  much you get caught it that you might be [TS]

  a sex offender you know that sounds like [TS]

  a jeff foxworthy bit [TS]

  imagine if you know they're not here [TS]

  Nate on the side of the house might be a [TS]

  sex offender [TS]

  many years ago I was that I was peeing [TS]

  outside with a friend a genetic park as [TS]

  you do and all of a sudden there was a [TS]

  cop car there with its spotlight on and [TS]

  that spotlighted my friend and for [TS]

  whatever reason I'm standing 15 feet [TS]

  away which is which is the this so [TS]

  socially prescribed distance you stand [TS]

  from your friend when you're being [TS]

  together in the dark in a park but that [TS]

  15 feet away I was somehow out of the [TS]

  spotlight aura and the cops are [TS]

  spotlighting my buddy and they're like [TS]

  hey and he's like oh shit and I'm [TS]

  standing right there in the middle of a [TS]

  park they don't see me and I finish [TS]

  peeing and I zip up my pants [TS]

  and I walked around a tree like a head [TS]

  around there's a treat next minute walk [TS]

  around it and come out from the other [TS]

  side and then walk up as these two cops [TS]

  are getting out and arresting my friend [TS]

  and I'm like hey fellas what's going on [TS]

  and my buddy's like hey I made literally [TS]

  handcuffed him and put him in the police [TS]

  car and drove off into the night is in [TS]

  Seattle yeah and I was like oh man shit [TS]

  and my friend was like dude you gotta [TS]

  help me out here and I left nothing i [TS]

  could do we know I wasn't gonna say hey [TS]

  I was pissing to and so I stood there [TS]

  and he was like you know come bail me [TS]

  out and I was like I don't have any [TS]

  money [TS]

  happy now topics and and he was like [TS]

  this are that is civil right he was [TS]

  yelling at me faster think I'm just I [TS]

  was just going from here to there [TS]

  the cops even comes never even looked at [TS]

  me anyway what I'm worried about em [TS]

  ultimately is I have a house full of [TS]

  instruments and I'm worried that that [TS]

  does not present enough challenge to my [TS]

  daughter is efficient [TS]

  that's right so music is all around her [TS]

  she is invited to play any instrument at [TS]

  any time she isn't going to develop any [TS]

  interest in it at all i think about [TS]

  hiding them i'm thinking about making [TS]

  them all off limits to her you know that [TS]

  the famous story about the Jacksons was [TS]

  that that Dad Jackson had a guitar and [TS]

  he said no one touch my guitar I better [TS]

  not see anybody ever touch this guitar [TS]

  and then Jermaine or whatever like [TS]

  taught himself to play the guitar and [TS]

  then little by little all the Jacksons [TS]

  learn to play on this guitar and they [TS]

  hit they had to hide it from their dad [TS]

  and he only discovered it when one day [TS]

  they broke a string and they didn't know [TS]

  how to [TS]

  fix it and he came home and saw that [TS]

  they've been playing his guitar and he [TS]

  was like what's the story here it comes [TS]

  to help that well yeah and I think you [TS]

  probably the shit out of it but then [TS]

  eventually he discovered like oh shit [TS]

  they're all they're all amazing [TS]

  musicians [TS]

  hey wait a minute i might not have to [TS]

  work i should have a keyboard so you [TS]

  know so you think that's what he thought [TS]

  you think he saw him take it [TS]

  yeah but the barrier to entry togo 45 [TS]

  net the confined to the trucks ready the [TS]

  barrier to entry there has to be one you [TS]

  know you there has to be something I [TS]

  totally get what you're saying I mean [TS]

  yeah exactly there's nothing there's [TS]

  nothing to it comes like furniture would [TS]

  be like playing the couch right so so [TS]

  and that is why so many like hipster [TS]

  musicians they you know they raise their [TS]

  kids to be to you know to be like group [TS]

  stirs and the kids just end up [TS]

  yeah i was about to say they end up [TS]

  being football players and and [TS]

  cheerleaders but really I have no [TS]

  evidence that's like seventy two percent [TS]

  on 72 cents on the dollar [TS]

  it's evidence that that happens it just [TS]

  seems like a good thing to say your [TS]

  daughter's gonna end up being a [TS]

  cheerleader [TS]

  you gotta get seventy two percent of the [TS]

  guitar give hissing in theaters up there [TS]

  you're missing during the the trailer [TS]

  movie know how we get hissing it's it's [TS]

  a thing here i think some people just do [TS]

  it because you know little things like [TS]

  when you go to that one tunnel by the [TS]

  golden gate bridge Red Hawk so that the [TS]

  tone [TS]

  yeah yeah i think i think you know that [TS]

  the hissing is it really [TS]

  it's aight i can't even tell if it's [TS]

  ironic anymore no there's no he wouldn't [TS]

  in the Northwest you would not make a [TS]

  public display like that without really [TS]

  upsetting people [TS]

  you get into the theater and you you [TS]

  identify which which half of the armrest [TS]

  is included in your personal space right [TS]

  and then you get as quiet as you can so [TS]

  you go to for example in your case you [TS]

  go to a holocaust movie and people just [TS]

  chattering through the whole thing [TS]

  because that there is their civil right [TS]

  with my braids [TS]

  so I need peace in and I'm indoors get [TS]

  Civil War discrimination women's rights [TS]

  trumpets and allergies and so what was [TS]

  the upshot was the upshot of your talk [TS]

  that you do you feel like you did you [TS]

  did you would be able to make a point we [TS]

  have also decided i think so i got to [TS]

  the end and I said you know ask me your [TS]

  best questions like let's hear it [TS]

  because i spent the second half of my [TS]

  talk saying what is the what is the end [TS]

  goal you there like lady with rickets [TS]

  was the end goal of making of of forcing [TS]

  the issue of inclusiveness and rock [TS]

  music what is I mean I understand rock [TS]

  music has for the whole length of its [TS]

  life for though for its entire time [TS]

  rock music has been a a a radicalizing [TS]

  force in the culture right [TS]

  rock music says hey we're going to [TS]

  integrate rock music says hey we're [TS]

  going to move our hips and we're gonna [TS]

  show our belly buttons and we're going [TS]

  to talk about the war and we're going to [TS]

  talk about drugs & rock music has done [TS]

  it in advance of the rest of the culture [TS]

  it's always been radicalizing but now [TS]

  this this new realm in which rock music [TS]

  is its own mission field and people are [TS]

  turning inward and saying how can we [TS]

  make rock [TS]

  how can we make the music world more [TS]

  representative more inclusive more [TS]

  how can we how can we force the music [TS]

  world to be you know more diverse and in [TS]

  a way more of an institution all those [TS]

  all those other people in the business [TS]

  and that was the you know that was the [TS]

  that was the upshot was just like you [TS]

  can't go into the arts and start [TS]

  I mean he then then what you get is [TS]

  marks the start you get art that is that [TS]

  doesn't offend anybody [TS]

  and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  offend anybody and it isn't [TS]

  representative and people are not making [TS]

  art 222 challenge or overturn they're [TS]

  making art to satisfy requirements and [TS]

  they're making art to a to appease and [TS]

  that is that ultimately isn't art its [TS]

  design or it's you know it's graphic art [TS]

  not to not to piss off any graphic [TS]

  artists that are mad morning and you [TS]

  throw a straightedge a think that they [TS]

  might do an illustration of me that's [TS]

  unflattering your ass is big but you're [TS]

  seeing Rushmore [TS]

  yes I think when in doubt you should do [TS]

  her monthly Herman Blues are they [TS]

  shoulda blew speech in the chapel [TS]

  here's my advice to the rest of you take [TS]

  dead aim on the rich boys get them in [TS]

  your crosshairs and take them down [TS]

  remember you can buy anything but they [TS]

  can't buy backbone you can see you could [TS]

  go and give her speech anywhere and you [TS]

  don't disagree because nobody is there a [TS]

  rich boy [TS]

  yeah take aim at the rich boy that you [TS]

  need a gun for that you [TS]

  I mean maybe it's a philosophical [TS]

  metaphor gun but step take aim at them [TS]

  with with your sarcasm [TS]

  that's right i invented sarcasm alright [TS]

  well let you go pee [TS]

  yeah you anything else no that's it you [TS]

  don't have you don't have any kind of a [TS]

  solution for this you don't have any [TS]

  kind of a tip for somebody what if [TS]

  somebody's out there right now John what [TS]

  if they're looking for your help you [TS]

  certainly created the article itself is [TS]

  a foundation the tip is the you know the [TS]

  the answer is this is the same as the [TS]

  one that you have been propagating which [TS]

  is don't look outward at 22 you know to [TS]

  a rather change yourself first change [TS]

  your immediate family and your your [TS]

  small circle of friends second [TS]

  and if that doesn't occupy you your [TS]

  entire life i will be astonished but but [TS]

  change in office to agree on bagels [TS]

  good luck if you feel like you have [TS]

  completely like change your way of [TS]

  living and your and your families and [TS]

  your immediate circle of friends way of [TS]

  living then write a book about it [TS]

  because you would be an example to us [TS]

  all [TS]

  I don't know that it seems like sympathy [TS]

  and empathy for your opponent is is the [TS]

  thing that's needed most [TS]

  now in them in America at least sympathy [TS]

  and empathy for your opponent and a [TS]

  genuine desire to see what the what the [TS]

  underlying problem is because we are not [TS]

  making the world a better place the [TS]

  liberal project is in within a lot of [TS]

  ways got it is working but i don't but [TS]

  nobody nobody likes the feeling i don't [TS]

  know it's just so early that we [TS]

  shouldn't even post this one is this 7 [TS]

  it's it's not fun [TS]