0:00:00hello hi John
0:00:07hi Merlin hi how are you
0:00:11more than men how are you you sound like
0:00:17a lot going on
0:00:18no you know i'm so dizzy yeah you're a
0:00:21busy person i'm so dizzy I think people
0:00:25say that
0:00:26busy busy busy busy now I love life is
0:00:29like a glass like a big closet
0:00:30you know you're always gonna you're
0:00:32gonna fill up every one of them no
0:00:33matter what
0:00:34absolutely true you know people say
0:00:36they're busy because i think it's
0:00:39indisputable that most other people in
0:00:42the world are not doing anything you're
0:00:45not busy at all and the so those few
0:00:48people who are busy who say I'm really
0:00:50busy right now they are the better git
0:00:53er done errs for the actual busy people
0:00:55and we should support them with all of
0:00:57our efforts i got mixed feelings because
0:01:00when i say i'm busy it usually means one
0:01:03of a couple things and they're both my
0:01:05fault
0:01:06no I'm never if I I mean I'm a
0:01:08disgusting the nature of what I quote
0:01:11unquote do it since there's never time
0:01:13that I should be too busy unless I you
0:01:15have chosen to be too busy mean because
0:01:18I'm really its kind of trip everybody
0:01:19when they like to admit it or not but
0:01:21yeah I with me it means i have
0:01:22overcommitted or a plan poorly or all in
0:01:28the midst of all that i'm just not being
0:01:30very good our effective if you like
0:01:33yeah I I whenever I say I'm busy I could
0:01:37just replace that with i'm behind the
0:01:398-ball i'm behind the eight ball that's
0:01:42what I mean
0:01:43screams I'm sitting in a room right now
0:01:45that is basically just boxes and bags of
0:01:49things that I haven't attended to and
0:01:52the boxes and bags are stacked on other
0:01:54boxes and bags until I'm like a I'm like
0:01:59a hoarder person where you can only get
0:02:01to my computer desk through a corridor
0:02:03through a corridor just like stacked
0:02:08olds cat food cans
0:02:12these newspapers tied with tied with
0:02:16ramen noodles and a little taste of the
0:02:20orient in your home organization and i'm
0:02:22just i'm behind the eight ball just even
0:02:24walk in here and like a behind the eight
0:02:25ball
0:02:26well I hate to admit tonight that I know
0:02:28this but there are stages to hoarding
0:02:31and there are like they're like in the
0:02:33same way you look at dsm you know this
0:02:35all the are you a person who has you
0:02:37know depression with them some kind of
0:02:39some kind of sex thing
0:02:41yeah it's a role-playing thing is the
0:02:43DSM guide mhm
0:02:45oh the diagnostic stimulation modulator
0:02:494got sybian sibilance is that is a UH
0:02:55that gosh where do i begin first of all
0:02:58it's it's it's all I can do not turn
0:03:00this into you know one of those other
0:03:01shows right about bad stuff stages of
0:03:04stages according to their stations
0:03:05reporting and you know it's a I had I
0:03:07had a reason and one point my life to
0:03:09learn about these things their family
0:03:10you're into my house do you feel like
0:03:12I'm on the hoarding continuum John we're
0:03:15all on the horn continue and that's only
0:03:17two continuum you're right you're right
0:03:18everybody's a little special mi mi
0:03:21somewhere out along the horn continuum
0:03:24as you can jaan i'm not a hoarding
0:03:27clinician right but yeah there's that I
0:03:31forget how many faces there are but
0:03:34there's once you're it's you know it
0:03:36again once you want to become aware
0:03:38something it's hard to stop seeing it
0:03:39everywhere and i have to tell you that
0:03:41I'm pretty sure one of the middle phases
0:03:43is paths
0:03:45uh-huh right when you believe we have to
0:03:47blaze trails through stuff I think
0:03:50you're I think you're on the ec
0:03:51exceedingly slightly more special part
0:03:54of a continuum that's like when you when
0:03:56you buy of a Volkswagen bug and then all
0:03:59of a sudden you see Volkswagen bugs
0:04:00everywhere i didn't know i think this i
0:04:03think this is a version of an
0:04:05availability heuristic that you make
0:04:07decisions about what's going on in the
0:04:09world based on the information that's
0:04:10available to you in your own experience
0:04:12right right for instance i never used to
0:04:15see PT Cruisers at all
0:04:17thank god you're lucky i know i had a PT
0:04:20Cruiser screen on my consciousness like
0:04:22a filter that came down
0:04:24let a little like a little protective
0:04:25advisor it was a protective visor a
0:04:27mental visor that screened out PT
0:04:30Cruisers but then one time Kathleen
0:04:32Edwards came here to visit me and she
0:04:33rented a PT Cruiser so cute and we're
0:04:37driving around town in his PT cruiser
0:04:39and all of a sudden i'm a member of the
0:04:40PT Cruiser fraternity and people are
0:04:43like PB pie other PT Cruisers everywhere
0:04:46and I and I have to see them i'm in one
0:04:50and it did change me forever and not in
0:04:53a good way
0:04:54no no I I feel the same way uh ever
0:04:57since I was a little kid
0:04:58this is probably a phenomenon with the
0:05:00name but you you feel like you have
0:05:01there's a word that you haven't heard
0:05:03your whole life and then one day you
0:05:05hear it and then that same day you hear
0:05:06it again and so either you heard that
0:05:09word before and you didn't remember it
0:05:11when there's some you know you know dark
0:05:14matter what and when you say it's
0:05:16probably the name you mean your name
0:05:18Merlin Mann never heard it that advisor
0:05:20protect advisor what you know what I
0:05:23hate is a legitimate so what the first
0:05:25time somebody's on abracadabra to you
0:05:26you're like a boy and a man but you know
0:05:31you gotta hate and unintentional
0:05:33left-handed compliment at a job
0:05:35my wife had a few years ago her boss was
0:05:38just talking about you know whatever
0:05:39like you do in office cuz you know
0:05:41really work in an office and and she
0:05:44said and then have you ever seen those
0:05:46PT Cruisers and she's like yeah sure
0:05:48just that seems like the kind of car you
0:05:50drive
0:05:51oh and you know I think that's the way I
0:05:54think that's a way of saying to somebody
0:05:55that you really knows mostly through
0:05:57work as a way of saying you're a fun
0:05:59like kinky individual Oh interesting
0:06:03it's a kicky it's a it's a quirky cards
0:06:05like ya on ya can tech this is from a
0:06:08lady this is from a lady has reached
0:06:10that kind of menopausal age we start
0:06:11wearing a lot of chunky jewelry and
0:06:12saying what's on your mind you know but
0:06:14she wasn't saying it unkind way
0:06:16no no she meant that Madeline was a was
0:06:18like a funky gal it totally and it's you
0:06:21know the things that we buy for other
0:06:23people as present as an example is
0:06:25another example usually say much more
0:06:26about us than it does about the other
0:06:28person often it shows that we have bad
0:06:29judgment and no taste
0:06:31well i hope that Madeline enjoys the the
0:06:33pearl handle derringers I border for
0:06:35Christmas she treasures them
0:06:37she was gonna give her anything with
0:06:39pearl on it that's good
0:06:41it's a but you know that's that seem
0:06:42like a sweet thing to say but do you
0:06:44know gosh where I even begin I want to
0:06:45get back to the hoarding but yeah yeah
0:06:47you know it's like when you're a little
0:06:49kid and you know you know exactly the
0:06:51kind of GI joe that you want like a very
0:06:54specific my case files in the big gym
0:06:56for a while we just him
0:06:58yeah which is kind of like a bicurious
0:06:59GI joe who likes to go to the beach how
0:07:01about Stretch Armstrong did you have a
0:07:03stretch arms from test marketed for
0:07:04kenner what
0:07:06how are you the kid that got to
0:07:08test-market Stretch Armstrong general
0:07:10did you ever have a really cool little
0:07:12car called an SST we pulled the t-strap
0:07:14and flies across the floor
0:07:16test marketed I stories right saw them I
0:07:19never had one myself another broken by
0:07:21your mother up the wizard the wizard top
0:07:24this tops it goes across the floor yeah
0:07:27I was a test marketer for counter toys
0:07:29when I was a child
0:07:30how did you get this gig i was bored in
0:07:33class and I i think what happens counter
0:07:36and Family Services encounter was is
0:07:37based in Cincinnati or at least has a
0:07:39big outpost there right this is the kind
0:07:41of thing you can do in a public school
0:07:42in the seventies is you would take a
0:07:44mean let's be honest it was the smart
0:07:45kids the kids they could afford to just
0:07:47miss the whole class to go play with the
0:07:48toy and please don't ever make the other
0:07:50kids love us they want to thank you baby
0:07:52love you test market toys in school to
0:07:54me Jenny balcom Billy shallower we did
0:07:57they take us out the second let's go and
0:07:59and all the kids who star who already
0:08:00done with work they get to go play with
0:08:01toys for the other kids haha I you thank
0:08:04you thank you hate me too
0:08:07that's terrible yeah I mean it's
0:08:09wonderful but it's terribly awful i hate
0:08:11me 2 i'm like a PT Cruiser oh you know
0:08:14what I had to do I had to pretend I was
0:08:15sick and go to the nurse's office to how
0:08:18do you have a method did you put that
0:08:19you put a thermometer under your arm up
0:08:21against the light or anything like that
0:08:23oh no I file it i mean you want to see
0:08:25right through you actually have to get a
0:08:27disease
0:08:28clearly i was sick when I was never you
0:08:31know it's funny we had cats my whole
0:08:34life growing up and I'm allergic to cats
0:08:36so I always orders was a little sick
0:08:41oh really you're like you're like will
0:08:42ring you have to constantly call upon
0:08:44your healing abilities in order just to
0:08:46stay alive and that causes baseline
0:08:48paint you all the time
0:08:49exactly there's there's
0:08:50many ways in which I'm like wolverine
0:08:52that is one of the ways radians fuck you
0:08:54up with all that metal that's not going
0:08:56to go into it
0:08:57marbut so so nobody ever thought maybe
0:09:00this kid is allergic to cats so I had a
0:09:03constant scratchy cough and runny nose
0:09:05for I'm serious now 14 years your eyes
0:09:08you get the eyes itchy eyes and so I
0:09:11would sit in class and if I wanted to
0:09:13if class was boring i wanted to get out
0:09:15i would just be like I've really thick
0:09:17right down and they sent me to the
0:09:19nurse's office and I I'd lay on the way
0:09:21on the cot in the nurse's office and
0:09:23count the dots in the ceiling tile you
0:09:27can call upon your your your conquest
0:09:29space fantasies for really any room
0:09:32where you can be supplied
0:09:33yeah i just want this one to go
0:09:35somewhere lay down have him turn the
0:09:37lights down a little bit and then leave
0:09:38me the leave me alone and you know and
0:09:40they thought i was sleeping but I was
0:09:42just you know what you needed you needed
0:09:43fake chronic migraines
0:09:46oh interesting many people are very
0:09:48think about it it's one of those things
0:09:49the etiology is really tough you can
0:09:51look at somebody and tell whether they
0:09:53do or don't have a migraine is they're
0:09:55really good at looking like they have a
0:09:56migraine
0:09:57well or chronic fatigue syndrome no I
0:09:59don't want to get into chronic fatigue
0:10:00syndrome because i believe it's a real
0:10:01thing and there are people who is well
0:10:04the people who suffer from it are very
0:10:06very serious about it being real thing
0:10:09and and they have impressed upon me that
0:10:11if it is a real thing and no one
0:10:15believes you
0:10:16that is got to be a terrible terrible
0:10:18fate right to be like completely sick
0:10:22and you're essentially telling somebody
0:10:24that they're either insane a liar or
0:10:26both
0:10:27yeah right these people go to the doctor
0:10:28and they're like I feel like I can
0:10:31barely function and the doctors like
0:10:33you're imagining it
0:10:34uh huh you know and for years this goes
0:10:36on so I i won't make I won't make jokes
0:10:38about chronic fatigue syndrome x6 that
0:10:41helped except that it does sound like
0:10:44they're faking it sound like it but you
0:10:46know there's there's a funny thing in
0:10:47medicine as you know not physician but
0:10:49there are a range of things where they
0:10:51know that there's a condition that
0:10:52exists but there's no etiology for it
0:10:56and there's no test for proving that
0:10:57exists right and having one of those
0:10:59things suck
0:11:00x sucks it sucks and that chronic
0:11:02fatigue syndrome is one you know what I
0:11:04gotta tell you up until and you're gonna
0:11:06get you know about this but up until the
0:11:08last few years I was pretty sure that
0:11:11kids with food allergies was mostly a
0:11:13fake things my thought it was maybe a
0:11:15doting mother or something you know but
0:11:18it's like why did why is it suddenly
0:11:19everybody has food allergies and it
0:11:21didn't use to be
0:11:22oh yeah tell you the truth I don't know
0:11:24why that is and I kind of don't care
0:11:25because now i do I have a friend whose
0:11:28kid to Justin brief when they knew that
0:11:32like once I'm healing touch the piece of
0:11:33cheese and it looks like a tattoo on his
0:11:35arm
0:11:36whoa yeah just from like a little piece
0:11:37of it took me to get tested
0:11:39yeah and they started with i think an
0:11:41eighth of a teaspoon of milk and I think
0:11:45it's such a horrible story said mom I
0:11:47feel crazy I feel weird or something in
0:11:50his eyes rolled back in his head he went
0:11:52into anaphylactic shock and they had to
0:11:54give him like two or three EpiPen shots
0:11:56and taken to the emergency room he
0:11:57almost died at the hospital
0:11:59holy cats yeah yeah so like he's so when
0:12:02you hear stuff when i first heard like
0:12:03there's a little lactose intolerance
0:12:05what you're saying that he's a little
0:12:06lactose intolerant but here's the thing
0:12:09imagine now the this this wonderful that
0:12:12the parents he has a good friend of mine
0:12:14and she's a pistol begin with and
0:12:16crystal sheer all she's assisting your
0:12:19son and more like when you follow her on
0:12:21Twitter she's very this isn't this is a
0:12:23non-public story meeting grouper their
0:12:25kid has an extreme allergy and she
0:12:28carries EpiPens everywhere and she's
0:12:30ready but you know the thing is i have
0:12:32to say like a few years ago i got when i
0:12:34was a kid I remember Julie schlessinger
0:12:37didn't like oranges so she had to wait
0:12:41in line for a banana
0:12:42oh and she would cry and now now that
0:12:45might have been a food allergy but no
0:12:46kid I knew that stuff that they just
0:12:48couldn't eat because they would get sick
0:12:49that I knew of
0:12:51yeah yeah but I am a hundred percent
0:12:52positive that israel now but this is the
0:12:55problem with are both being from our
0:12:57generation and before
0:12:58mmm this is that this is one of those i
0:13:01remember the first time I heard the
0:13:04first well and the first time I heard a
0:13:05DD i was in a psychologist's office
0:13:09psychiatrist's office actually and he
0:13:12said
0:13:13I want you to sit in front of this
0:13:15computer and and play this game and i
0:13:18sat in front of a computer and i played
0:13:20this game where things flashed at me and
0:13:22I was supposed to choose this thing or
0:13:25that thing and then something shot
0:13:27across the screen and I was supposed to
0:13:29choose between two options and I get to
0:13:32the end of this not very fun game and he
0:13:35goes well here's the problem you have
0:13:39attention deficit disorder who and I
0:13:42said what's that he said oh it's this
0:13:45new diagnosis where people who are
0:13:51people who are struggling to integrate
0:13:56themselves into the world's it turns out
0:13:58that you are not lazy or dumb
0:14:01it's just that you can't stay focused on
0:14:04things and there's a medicine for that
0:14:06and I said I was old enough at this
0:14:11point I like 17 that i was at and I had
0:14:16been going to psychologist for a long
0:14:18time that I was suspicious of them and I
0:14:20was suspicious of this diagnosis as I
0:14:22think a lot of people were at first a TD
0:14:25what the hell is that
0:14:26attention deficit disorder what is that
0:14:28mhm and then attempted attention deficit
0:14:31hyperactivity disorder and these these
0:14:32were things when we were in when we were
0:14:35kids
0:14:36if you had that what they did it took
0:14:37you out of class and let you test market
0:14:39some toys in usually with school you
0:14:42know what I mean like that was that was
0:14:43their shares your prescription complete
0:14:45stretch armstrong yeah or like he's a
0:14:47spirited little kid or whatever it was
0:14:50you know but all of a sudden that the
0:14:51EPA to become a pathology and now of
0:14:55course we live in a world where I mean I
0:14:58don't spend a lot of time in great
0:14:59schools yet but i imagine when you're in
0:15:01great schools now the number of kids
0:15:04that have attention deficit
0:15:05hyperactivity disorder or something on
0:15:07that spectrum it's probably forty
0:15:09percent of the kids in the school and
0:15:12when you combine food allergies as
0:15:15burgers all the other ways in which
0:15:18we're now get dyslexia
0:15:22yeah well I mean is there really is a
0:15:24lesser-known it's a long time
0:15:26thing and it's like yeah here's the kid
0:15:28writes his letters backwards but but
0:15:30there are a lot of parents that are
0:15:33self-diagnosing their kids as Bergen and
0:15:36a lot of parents that are still like in
0:15:38denial about it but their next-door
0:15:39neighbors are diagnosing their kids as
0:15:41birkin that's the aerial i mean i i've
0:15:44got a couple kids in my life with with
0:15:46legitimate like you can tell
0:15:48plus the doctor said ass burgers and
0:15:49everybody but their parents I was ready
0:15:53to cop to that the parents were the last
0:15:55but yeah I mean if your kids got a thing
0:15:57you don't you don't want to be labeled
0:15:59you know it well
0:16:00right except that except that I mean in
0:16:02park slope right now if your kid doesn't
0:16:03have a thing who your gotta get a
0:16:06special special school
0:16:07he's the outlier and I mean you remember
0:16:09when we were and this is true all the
0:16:11way through high school for us there
0:16:13were kids that were separated out and
0:16:15put in special classes but there was one
0:16:18special class there was one special
0:16:20class and everybody you know everybody
0:16:22went there including probably now that i
0:16:25think about it kids who were mentally
0:16:28functioning at a high level but they
0:16:29just had a palsy or something
0:16:31how is it was ridiculous in the same
0:16:33thing happen my dad with dyslexia and
0:16:34Men and poor vision and it's what
0:16:37happened a lot of people and you get
0:16:39this one place that basically becomes
0:16:40like a what a pedagogical holding cell
0:16:43and so so people with profound
0:16:45personality problems legitimate
0:16:47depression serious health problems or
0:16:49maybe they just read too fast
0:16:52yeah right read too fast right well but
0:16:55but i guess the getting getting back to
0:16:57your point at which is that it's very
0:16:59like we were raised certainly I was
0:17:02raised in an environment where mind my
0:17:05initial response to this like
0:17:08proliferation of human problems was
0:17:12suspicion that that people were making
0:17:15up these diagnoses that that that
0:17:18chronic fatigue syndrome and attention
0:17:21deficit hyperactivity disorder were on
0:17:24the same spectrum which was the spectrum
0:17:26of people making shit up about
0:17:27themselves to excuse their shoddy
0:17:29performance and as you know as time goes
0:17:32on you accept
0:17:34you accept that these things are real
0:17:36you think back to our childhood when
0:17:39none of these things existed in
0:17:40everybody had to just cope if the if
0:17:44these problems existed 40 years ago your
0:17:46your solution was cope or go to the
0:17:49special class where you have to wear a
0:17:51helmet
0:17:52absolutely and I mean in terms of like
0:17:54today the so many kids go to private
0:17:55school
0:17:56I mean and again you can't really can't
0:17:57compare there's so many different
0:17:58variables that have changed in the last
0:18:0140 years but you know the only kids I
0:18:03knew who went to private school went to
0:18:05private school because it was a Catholic
0:18:06school and just went that was I didn't
0:18:08know anybody who went to the like the
0:18:10huntington academy or something like
0:18:11that
0:18:12now they want to probably isn't just got
0:18:14finger in the pooper uh-huh sure and
0:18:16free bread and butter but you know so
0:18:19you camp so I i become more sensitive
0:18:22you can only hear caches million threads
0:18:23here it's supposed to supposed to eat
0:18:25again where we made it through the age
0:18:27of reason you know we don't believe that
0:18:29there's a you know a troll in your head
0:18:31tiny troll causing your headache and
0:18:32stuff like that and so when should you
0:18:34use haha just an animist you just say to
0:18:40my dad he would say stuff you don't be
0:18:42like marinara
0:18:43oh it's great that you're a musician
0:18:45that some it's it's your jeans for genes
0:18:50are responsible for you being a good
0:18:52musician i would say screw off thats
0:18:56that well stroll in your head there's a
0:18:58Welsh troll that lives in your brain all
0:19:00that trouble is so fucking well she's
0:19:02not even fun comes up with shitty things
0:19:03to say he started rubbing alcohol and
0:19:06your 3-way family takes the credit away
0:19:08from me that well stroll in your brain
0:19:10and he was like I don't have a well
0:19:11stroll and we would get would argue
0:19:14about the wealth troll that lives inside
0:19:15of you know exactly who would say
0:19:16there's no well stroll is a guy who has
0:19:18a well stroll
0:19:19yeah yeah yeahs well stroll is what
0:19:21saying there's no well I'm not in denial
0:19:24I'm not a well stroll girl stroll
0:19:27I'm senses that like a couple things
0:19:29here 10 yeah irritable bowel syndrome
0:19:31that's another thing you know I've got
0:19:33I've got the intestinal issues but i do
0:19:35not have IBS and some ways I'm grateful
0:19:37to go nitro disease i get the other one
0:19:40oh yeah but it's like we talked about
0:19:42that you want but I vs is that it
0:19:44by you stay there when i'm having a
0:19:47tough time
0:19:48yeah I know dear but you but unlike a
0:19:49lot of people you keep chopsticks on the
0:19:51back of the toilet to go through your oh
0:19:54yeah terms of that just kind of sifting
0:19:56through doing a little bit of panning ya
0:19:58little panting panting for corn I keep
0:20:01that I keep some poultry shears I'm a
0:20:04very fine mesh and of course index cards
0:20:07haha yeah well I've got an old toilet
0:20:12um yes anyway IBS is a bummer because
0:20:14you get this weird comment isn't like
0:20:16you know I BS you get sometimes you get
0:20:18diarrhea and sometimes but a lot of the
0:20:20times you're constipated the most of
0:20:21your kind of impact that Beth Orton that
0:20:23singer that Beth Orton lady had it and
0:20:24then it really screwed her up
0:20:26that's one of those that were you go in
0:20:27like with a migraine I don't think
0:20:29unless you do one of those made-up
0:20:30phony-baloney fmri kind of things I
0:20:33don't think you can go and say oh yeah
0:20:34you have migraines I think it's all
0:20:35based on symptoms aren't that many you
0:20:38get signs and symptoms symptoms are what
0:20:40friends are for pussies
0:20:41he's got a bad and I think he's good and
0:20:44like drugged up on stuff that he doesn't
0:20:46like taking to keep them even manageable
0:20:48and even then they're not super
0:20:48manageable my mom get some however often
0:20:53well that's the thing that has like
0:20:54forever but there are crippling she has
0:20:57that pain threshold thing
0:20:58oh your mom and the pain where when she
0:21:01says like there's a headache coming and
0:21:06I need to close the blinds and go
0:21:08upstairs
0:21:09it was so over Gibson it's so it's so
0:21:13disconcerting because she is so
0:21:16unaffected by pain in most situations
0:21:18but it's like oh no what is this madness
0:21:23like I was wondering about that when you
0:21:25said that she got them because you said
0:21:27you how God gives you the beard that you
0:21:29deserve
0:21:29I wonder you know the pain is one of
0:21:31those things that's so hard to quantify
0:21:32because it is you know you're the only
0:21:35one who's feeling the pain and certainly
0:21:38based on history they can say that if
0:21:39you've got a gunshot wound to the
0:21:42abdomen there's a pretty good chance
0:21:43you're going to call that a seven eight
0:21:45nine or maybe ten you have that so
0:21:47that's one of the that's traditionally
0:21:48one of the pain that sort of stainless
0:21:50that's pancreatic cancer shot will
0:21:52consider to the gunshot to the to the
0:21:54belly
0:21:55yeah right that's pretty bad news that
0:21:57but with your mom see that's the thing
0:21:59when you say that God gives people in
0:22:00the beer that they deserve
0:22:01I wonder if like you get the migraine
0:22:03that I mean I bet your migraine sucks
0:22:07for everybody but there's not that many
0:22:09people that get a migraine that just go
0:22:10i can just deal with this
0:22:12yeah you know me brush it off yeah yeah
0:22:13and yet she sees the she starts seeing
0:22:16halos of light and yet last year classic
0:22:18yeah she's like I'm out of here and it's
0:22:20you know it doesn't even hurt yet she's
0:22:22just like delirious and I throw up and I
0:22:25want to die i have never had a migraine
0:22:27and I'm pretty fortunate and you know
0:22:30for a lot of people are the triggers
0:22:31right you can have like you know like
0:22:33red wine or chocolate or there's I guess
0:22:36all kinds of things and if you're very
0:22:37sensitive don't listen to this because
0:22:38even listening this could probably give
0:22:40him a migraine but all those things they
0:22:41also because you feel like your monkey
0:22:42balls right like all the sudden you got
0:22:44this thing nobody can see but you don't
0:22:46let me say one more thing about the ad
0:22:47because you know if you got two little
0:22:49kids let's see how to play date another
0:22:51kid comes over and you know the classic
0:22:52you must face in your own home actually
0:22:54love to hear how your mom handle this
0:22:56there's one large piece of cake left and
0:22:59there's two kids so what do you do
0:23:02my mom throws the kick in the yard
0:23:03that's a light cake that's not your cake
0:23:07but mom says no gig for anybody just
0:23:10keeps it on the counter and some
0:23:12Tupperware and it's just there and then
0:23:14you finally you ask out the window is
0:23:17that my mom used to buy grape juice for
0:23:20my sister it was a special treat that
0:23:22she would give my sister a glass of
0:23:24grape juice
0:23:25Susan expensive she was insane about
0:23:27grape juice and it was very expensive in
0:23:29the seventies you know when we were our
0:23:31weekly food budget well love the juices
0:23:33they were it was one of the more costly
0:23:34yeah and we had like four dollars and
0:23:36thirty-five cents to feed the three of
0:23:37us for a week she would buy grape juice
0:23:41and she would have portion it out in
0:23:42glasses to Susan I didn't really care
0:23:44about grape juice but the scriptures was
0:23:47for Susan and she gave it to Susan so
0:23:49sparingly that the that the bottle of
0:23:52grape juice like routinely turn to wine
0:23:55attractive turns cooking vinegar in the
0:23:59fridge before Susan was able to all its
0:24:02Nevel
0:24:03no yeah and then sat in there every time
0:24:04you open the fridge like there's the
0:24:05grape juice but a more conventional
0:24:07homes when you when you have
0:24:08a large slice of cake and two kids at
0:24:11the classic way to do this prisoner's
0:24:12dilemma kind of thing right or 10 game
0:24:14theory I guess one of you one of you
0:24:17cuts and the other chooses and the other
0:24:19chooses and that ensures that one person
0:24:22is going to make the most even cut
0:24:23possible right and i think that is an
0:24:26interesting principle in in many things
0:24:28that place that another example place
0:24:29that I used to work we had we did
0:24:32environmental consulting but one thing
0:24:34that gave us credibility was that we did
0:24:36environmental assessment but not
0:24:38environmental remediation really why
0:24:40would you go out and hire the same
0:24:42person to tell you what your problem is
0:24:44and then how much it would cost for them
0:24:45to fix it
0:24:46oh you just described the entire Chinese
0:24:48economy and your father in the mechanic
0:24:51well yeah I mean that's that is
0:24:54analogous to certain elegance to it
0:24:56half of the graft in America but this is
0:24:58again this is a problem with public
0:24:59schools now and I've had several a
0:25:01handful of friends with kids in schools
0:25:02and it's it's just very getting a class
0:25:05with 50 kids wear your kid cannot take
0:25:08up more than two percent of the time
0:25:11that would be if you're if you've got a
0:25:13kid who for whatever reason takes up
0:25:16four percent or eight percent of the
0:25:18time you pull them aside you bring the
0:25:20parent in and you say this is your
0:25:21problem
0:25:22this is not our problem our problem is
0:25:24we have no money and a class full of 50
0:25:26kids right so you need to figure out how
0:25:29this kid goes back to two percent or
0:25:31less i wish they had used that metric
0:25:33when I was a kid because I wanted to be
0:25:35taking a 0% of the teachers time just
0:25:38being left alone to sit at my desk and
0:25:40draw army men room or look at lookin at
0:25:43lookin encyclopedia look at the
0:25:45encyclopedia or stare at a spot on the
0:25:46wall kind of inciting gauge me I you
0:25:49keep calling on me I like just be if I
0:25:53could just go to that shelf with the
0:25:55with the world books and just sit there
0:25:56I would've done it all day long yeah I
0:25:59will listen I'll listen in on your class
0:26:01on your silly ass class who I'll be over
0:26:04here with these books and if I if
0:26:05there's a get there if you are
0:26:07addressing something I don't already
0:26:08know I look it up in these books how's
0:26:10that sound
0:26:11here's the thing if for example I can't
0:26:14find H through I because someone has not
0:26:16put it back in the proper place
0:26:18i will raise my hand and ask where the
0:26:20location of h3o is and apart from that
0:26:22we don't really need to talk here
0:26:24yeah exactly but you know this has
0:26:26become a cliché but i think it's true
0:26:28at least in one instance i know of it's
0:26:30very true what they said look to get
0:26:31your kid back to the end percent that he
0:26:34or she needs to be you need to take care
0:26:36of this so essentially they're saying so
0:26:37that's why they're dopin kids at home
0:26:39well i mean i think that is look at this
0:26:42way a lot of lot of households if you've
0:26:44got two parents in the household which
0:26:46is increasingly not so common you know
0:26:47like everybody's working everybody's
0:26:49busy everybody there's not that much you
0:26:51can do not that flexibility much
0:26:53flexibility for anybody and so I mean I
0:26:56think that the response of the idea i
0:26:57cannot prove this yet because luckily
0:27:00it's not a public school yet but you
0:27:02know that apparently happens when you
0:27:05especially when you get to 5th 6th 7th
0:27:078th grade they're going to say look
0:27:08here's your options focalin or adderall
0:27:10are there any questions well you know
0:27:12and that's why we need to you need to
0:27:15institute that third option which is
0:27:16building trail over like you give you
0:27:20give your kids some of this this like
0:27:23personality doling medic medication or
0:27:25get them out in the bright sunshine
0:27:27where Medicare where Mount see every day
0:27:31I see it every day with our kid that
0:27:32that the wearing out is good
0:27:34yeah uh I mean that the things that
0:27:37thing about this undiagnosable on
0:27:39seeable malady who epidemic that's
0:27:43happening i think in America like for me
0:27:46it comes home to roost because I suffer
0:27:49from depression who I'm I'm outing
0:27:52myself if it wasn't already abundantly
0:27:55clear and it is very hard for me to
0:27:59accept that for myself like it is very
0:28:03hard for me to acknowledge it as not
0:28:06being a personality flaw you know and
0:28:09also a weakness
0:28:10yeah so I look at you know I look at the
0:28:12course of of a typical day or a look at
0:28:14the arc of nine months of my life and I
0:28:16go
0:28:17the only thing that can account for the
0:28:20way that for the choices I've been
0:28:22making is that I'm suffering from
0:28:24depression i'm clearly suffering and
0:28:25everywhere I go every time I talk to a
0:28:27doctor and I say hear my problems doctor
0:28:29and I run down my problems they're like
0:28:31well you have severe depression I go
0:28:32yeah I know but come on help me out here
0:28:35with something
0:28:38yeah you gotta get something is there
0:28:39something physically difficult that I
0:28:41can do or something that I could resist
0:28:43doing for a few months that might
0:28:45improve its but yeah I pretty good at
0:28:47that
0:28:47this is the matter i mean anybody could
0:28:49tell that give me something to work with
0:28:51here and you know and I was like for a
0:28:55while there I was thinking
0:28:57listen I'm a drug addict but uh but I
0:29:00mean adderalls not a drug it's a it's
0:29:03like an attention focused sir and people
0:29:05were writing me i said this on the
0:29:07internet a couple of times people riding
0:29:08me like dat all the drug is totally
0:29:10drugged
0:29:11don't kid yourself i miss it i miss it
0:29:13if I don't take it
0:29:14yeah but I can feel the difference oh
0:29:16how I don't know how have you in how
0:29:19long you've been arrow like okay talk
0:29:22about time I don't even ok talking about
0:29:25that about being depressed him
0:29:27I mean you mentioned on twitter like
0:29:28last year well the thing about
0:29:30depression is that i think when i was a
0:29:33kid when I was a lot like early teens
0:29:40being diagnosed with depression i didn't
0:29:45feel like it had any stigma at all
0:29:47I felt like there it was it was a fairly
0:29:49glamorous diagnosis because depression
0:29:52was a it seemed exotic it seemed like a
0:29:56German disease it seems like something
0:30:00that if you had depression you would
0:30:02ultimately you would ultimately be
0:30:04wearing a black suit lounging on a
0:30:07Shay's and someone would be painting you
0:30:10and oils it's certainly an interesting
0:30:12thing to have you know like and
0:30:15particularly as a ten-year-old to be to
0:30:18have somebody say like well it seems
0:30:20like you have depression I was like
0:30:23that's a very adult sounding thing to
0:30:26have and it feels very like it feels a
0:30:29but it feels very Continental but I'll
0:30:32accept that so I never felt that
0:30:35depression was a was a thing
0:30:38it was only later when people started
0:30:40coming coming out as the
0:30:43pressed and being a and talking about
0:30:46the stigma that they felt it was only
0:30:49later that I it even occurred to me that
0:30:51there was stigma around it because
0:30:52depression seemed i guess to me like the
0:30:55only reasonable response to an insane
0:30:58world why would you feel a stigma right
0:31:00but but uh and so so my whatever
0:31:05reticence I had to talk about it was
0:31:07entirely a reticence based on I did I
0:31:10just don't like to reveal things about
0:31:12myself to strangers right you know like
0:31:15a I said I don't mention my daughter's
0:31:17name or whatever the same thing like I
0:31:20don't talk about my problems because
0:31:21because ultimately if you say something
0:31:23on the internet you get a bunch of
0:31:24Concerned a well-liked dm's from your
0:31:29friends going is everything ok are you
0:31:31ok
0:31:32it's like yeah I mentioned depressed i
0:31:34mentioned the depression that I have
0:31:35that I've had for 17 years
0:31:38it's not like it's not like I'm peaking
0:31:39I'm not standing on a bridge who um but
0:31:43but as time goes on i guess i guess what
0:31:46i'm talking about more is that I can I I
0:31:49always thought as you got older that
0:31:51that depression was a thing that you had
0:31:54when you were in your teens or early
0:31:55twenties and when you were very wit your
0:31:58peak dramatic years when you're feeling
0:32:00very dramatic and it continued into my
0:32:02thirties because every aspect of my
0:32:05youth continued into my thirties I was
0:32:07still a teenager at 37 years old but now
0:32:11that I'm in my forties and it is not
0:32:13waning if anything it is waxing it
0:32:18started to be a thing like okay you know
0:32:19what I'm going to just start talking
0:32:21about this more because um because it's
0:32:25act it's actually a feature on my
0:32:27landscape it's a thing that every
0:32:29morning I wake up and and even if there
0:32:32are no owls in my room there is always
0:32:34this like this bugbear and I go uh you
0:32:40again and you know a lot of the stuff
0:32:43that you and I talked about orbits
0:32:45around this this issue that you know
0:32:49that feeling of dissatisfaction in the
0:32:52feeling of everything that you've
0:32:54accomplished adds up to
0:32:56yes uh huh you know that there's no
0:32:59there's no reasonable way I could think
0:33:05that and that's what that that's because
0:33:08depression is unreasonable it's
0:33:10completely unreasonable and and the
0:33:12thing that has caused me to
0:33:13misunderstand it and and really really
0:33:16eat the booger on how I dealt with
0:33:18somebody important in my life had
0:33:20depression and i know it was that I was
0:33:22of the ok that's long enough it's time
0:33:25to buck up school right and and you know
0:33:27I think you tell me if this is correct
0:33:30in your experience but my understanding
0:33:31is that the most insidious thing about
0:33:34depression is not the true that a sad
0:33:36it's not that you really really sad
0:33:38it's not even that you sometimes think
0:33:39about harming yourself like that's
0:33:41actually stuff that a lot of people feel
0:33:42like a fair amount of the time it's just
0:33:45that no matter no matter what day it is
0:33:48it it feels completely impossible to
0:33:51imagine a world where it could be better
0:33:53line up for a lot of people them the
0:33:55worst part of it and the part that I
0:33:57think this set sounds like that's i'm
0:33:59already saying that but I think that
0:34:01doesn't really sink in for people who
0:34:02don't have depression is it is fairly
0:34:04constant it does come sometimes get a
0:34:07lot worse and the last thing in the
0:34:09world you could ever imagine is having a
0:34:11get better
0:34:12it does yeah it doesn't a bait but it
0:34:14also attaches itself to your normal
0:34:18sense of reason right it is it doesn't
0:34:22it doesn't fly how you see and decide
0:34:24yeah it's not it's not like it's not
0:34:26like some kind of crazy like
0:34:30republicanism we're all of a sudden you
0:34:32think you're the president is a Muslim
0:34:34and you know it's not like it's not like
0:34:36madness it is already went to college in
0:34:40a Burger King if it is a thing it is a
0:34:43thing where you look at it you make
0:34:45normal assessments
0:34:47in a way that seems absolutely rational
0:34:51but your conclusion is that you really
0:34:55fucked it up
0:34:56you really are you are you are you are a
0:34:59real turd in this situation you know
0:35:01when I I'll help start making a pot of
0:35:03macaroni and cheese and there will be
0:35:06three or four opportunities in the
0:35:08course of waiting for the water to boil
0:35:09and adding the powdered cheese packet
0:35:12and eating the macaroni and cheese where
0:35:14I feel like this macaroni and cheese is
0:35:17a is a metaphor for how I'm not thriving
0:35:21and so the macaroni and cheese tastes
0:35:26like a picture turns to ashes
0:35:31you know like it it robs you of the the
0:35:34potential to enjoy even the simple
0:35:36things because you are finding your
0:35:39finding like all the all the evidence
0:35:43you need in the simple things that you
0:35:45do for why you are a flop
0:35:50it's the things around you that stepped
0:35:52on an intellectual level you may not
0:35:55think have anything to do with that
0:35:57start to become emblematic of like what
0:36:00that person is or failure or everything
0:36:02becomes evidence evidence residence of
0:36:04the second fair sight
0:36:05yeah and you're and you're Europe you're
0:36:08using your ear capacity to you know that
0:36:13the it is a capacity that I prize in
0:36:15myself to look at the evidence to walk
0:36:18out the door and look at the evidence
0:36:20and and make decisions you know like
0:36:24based on what I see and what I know you
0:36:28know and that's it that is this prized
0:36:30faculty that i use everywhere I go like
0:36:32haha i see how this is gonna go this guy
0:36:35over here is about to throw his
0:36:36milkshake in haha he did I saw it but
0:36:40you but when you turn that faculty on
0:36:43yourself and all the evidence points to
0:36:46that you are
0:36:48a drag
0:36:51that's when you know that that that
0:36:54faculty is is normally the thing I lean
0:36:56on so when it returns this evidence to
0:37:01me that i am you know that that that
0:37:04everything I've ever made that belongs
0:37:07on the dustbin it's very hard for me to
0:37:09go well in that instance you're the in
0:37:14that instance your your your faculty for
0:37:16seeing is is flawed or broken because I
0:37:21use it all the time I trust my faculty
0:37:23for seeing so and and that is so super
0:37:28complicated because I'm just I'm
0:37:29processing what you're saying yeah here
0:37:31but at some mean you you're a very
0:37:34rational guy in a lot of ways you're
0:37:37certainly monkey balls in many ways but
0:37:39now you're a guy who really thrives on
0:37:41saying now like what is the thing that's
0:37:43really hear what is the essential nature
0:37:45of this conversation that we're having
0:37:47what is the essential nature of this
0:37:50deal that you're trying to offer me and
0:37:51keep changing the topic about it seems
0:37:53to me that like you have the scars to
0:37:56show for being somebody who was
0:37:58surrounded by things that dulled the
0:38:01influence of the outside world to where
0:38:03you now seriously seemed to really
0:38:05thrive on having a more direct
0:38:07experience of what the fuck is really
0:38:10happening and that you if there's
0:38:12anything you trust about yourself
0:38:14it is your ability to know that you're
0:38:16always being as honest as a human can be
0:38:18about what the fuck is really happening
0:38:20here
0:38:20yeah and and when you turn around the
0:38:23past that's become something and you
0:38:24certainly have every reason to be proud
0:38:25of that because you went through a lot
0:38:27of shit to get to where that's your mo
0:38:28and it's so close
0:38:30well the and the problem so the problem
0:38:34is that when somebody says to me if you
0:38:37take this if you take this serotonin
0:38:41reuptake inhibitor who it's going to
0:38:44make you not feel that way anymore i go
0:38:50i I'm suspicious because it doesn't feel
0:38:54the depression doesn't feel alien that
0:38:57is the that is what is insidious about
0:38:59it it does not feel it certainly
0:39:02feels like a handicap but it doesn't
0:39:05feel like a stranger doesn't feel
0:39:07external no i'm not at all you sitting
0:39:10you know because what happens is i look
0:39:11around the room and I go well come on
0:39:13I mean look at that look at that look at
0:39:16that poster on the wall that
0:39:17commemorates that great show that you
0:39:22played like that should be a source of
0:39:26like uncomplicated pleasure for you you
0:39:30have a you have a beautiful poster that
0:39:33commemorates this wonderful show that
0:39:35you remember fondly
0:39:36how can you find a downside to that and
0:39:40then the voice doesn't even need
0:39:43prompting you know it says well you know
0:39:47only only someone with a low self-esteem
0:39:51would need a poster to remind him that
0:39:54he was that he had good things in his
0:39:57life right now doing it and how did you
0:39:59get this number
0:40:00well Thea only a person you know that
0:40:03and then look around the room like Oh
0:40:04everything in this room is just some
0:40:06kind of sham a reflective surface
0:40:10broadcasting your own life back to you
0:40:15in these discrete chunks to try and make
0:40:19yourself feel better about what a shit
0:40:21job you've done and you know there's
0:40:24nothing there is no small thing that
0:40:27cannot be robbed of all its joy by this
0:40:31friend who sits next to me in the
0:40:34cockpit and whispers in my ear and says
0:40:37oh yeah no I mean everything everything
0:40:40that you love is a thing that you love
0:40:43because you are a shame and you just you
0:40:47know and and talking about it to people
0:40:49get it you know i remember the the the
0:40:53friend that you referenced earlier you
0:40:55know a this person that was lovely and
0:40:58you loved and she struggled in the same
0:41:01way and you know i have seen that happen
0:41:05with people who struggle with depression
0:41:06is more severe than mine who are no
0:41:08longer on this earth
0:41:10who and you know I feel lucky that my
0:41:14that I never the idea of harming myself
0:41:16has never occurred to me because I feel
0:41:19like when it's time for me to go I'm
0:41:21gonna take as many motherfuckers out
0:41:23with me as I possibly can
0:41:24there's going to be I mean if there
0:41:27isn't a mushroom cloud at least to mark
0:41:29my passage from this world I really will
0:41:32have failed but but at the same time
0:41:37like this living in a kind of low-level
0:41:40gray is just no way to be it's just no
0:41:44way to be and unfortunately i can't get
0:41:47over the hump of thinking that a
0:41:49serotonin reuptake inhibitor or cross
0:41:52tops or exercise or more blow jobs or
0:41:55whatever it is that that that I get
0:41:57prescribed by people and I know talking
0:42:00about this i'm going to get a thousand
0:42:01tweets from people who are like all you
0:42:03need to do is blah blah and let me just
0:42:07I hate to break the fourth wall but
0:42:08please don't send me your cures
0:42:10thoughtful people for the love of Christ
0:42:15but you know as soon as you start
0:42:19talking about it there are people that
0:42:21want to help help cure you and that is
0:42:24the problem but the very principle of of
0:42:27of trying to seek a cure is like I have
0:42:34a million reasons why that what that is
0:42:37going to work in the truth this is very
0:42:39rarely as simple as about about about
0:42:40but about is what somebody reports
0:42:43because that eventually worked
0:42:45yeah man and and thank God and God bless
0:42:47them but I hi a lot of my friends who
0:42:49have gotten treatment for depression is
0:42:51a pretty fucking rough go and sometimes
0:42:54it got worse and then sometimes they
0:42:56couldn't get a boner and and sometimes
0:42:58it took two years i'm not trying to say
0:43:00don't look for help I'm also saying
0:43:02don't percent it's as simple as drink
0:43:04some green tea and walk in the woods
0:43:06you're saying that i'm looking into a
0:43:07into an oboe near future so i can
0:43:10remember that men when the boner will
0:43:12stare back at you from the abyss
0:43:15yeah well you know I I'm a minute I you
0:43:18know I I I don't have anything like
0:43:21depression as far as i know if i have
0:43:24anything it's my head your new problems
0:43:26I'd be more depressed well you know easy
0:43:29you gotta just be careful about the
0:43:31onions and I know how hard that would be
0:43:32for you so i think really we have no
0:43:34hand are you having a hundred Henry
0:43:35situation you can have my onions
0:43:40I'll take your my haircut i'll take your
0:43:43lack of occasional lack of mania ok you
0:43:47know but but I don't know there's just
0:43:48something that when I learned that that
0:43:50really resonated with me because i
0:43:52really got it I got it that's the
0:43:53capital D part of depression is that it
0:43:56doesn't feel like it's a veil that can
0:43:57be lifted and as you say it isn't a
0:43:59matter of flicking his bugbear off your
0:44:00shoulder or saying Satan I rebuke thee
0:44:03it's it's a good deal more complicated
0:44:06it's the renowned say to my Michael
0:44:14ritzy the but you know this is another
0:44:18way to put this and I'm not as you know
0:44:19I'm not a depression psychiatrist but
0:44:21but I you know if you saw somebody
0:44:23walking around with bronchitis you
0:44:28wouldn't just tell him to back up you
0:44:30would have to understand that to get rid
0:44:31of that bronchitis there's certain
0:44:33things to really get rid of bronchitis
0:44:34you gotta take some antibiotics and
0:44:35stuff
0:44:36well sir that matter if you saw somebody
0:44:38who is like missing a hand and he said
0:44:40we'll just try harder to get handy but
0:44:42here's but here's the trick is that you
0:44:44have you have mania i have depression a
0:44:48little mean you don't ya
0:44:51good i got other problems i don't have
0:44:53damaged hmm but these things are also
0:44:57talents
0:44:59yeah like Kierkegaard had mania and
0:45:04depression and his name rings out you
0:45:09know for 450 thousand years of human
0:45:12history mania and depression were things
0:45:14that were that were useful talents right
0:45:18now that made that made people become
0:45:22monks or philosophers or
0:45:25or scientists or or conquerors you know
0:45:29these are these are not just handicaps
0:45:33they are they're very complex sort of
0:45:38some rainbow of qualities and our
0:45:44fixation now and then you know in part
0:45:46of the part of why my depression is is
0:45:49that is so hobbling is that i live in a
0:45:53world where I have the resources and I
0:45:56have the inclination to further isolate
0:46:00myself from people and to live in an
0:46:03ivory tower and at any time prior in
0:46:08human history unless I was a very very
0:46:10rich person I wouldn't be able to do
0:46:12that and so I would have been out in the
0:46:13streets and my depression would have
0:46:14been mitigated somewhat by just having
0:46:16to go down to the cart to the onion cart
0:46:19and by an onion every day if I wanted an
0:46:22onion and your mania would be a likewise
0:46:25more assimilated into the culture and
0:46:29particularly given that the life
0:46:31expectancy of people was 37 years by
0:46:35this point we would already be dead and
0:46:37and our problems would you know would be
0:46:41a bit
0:46:43whatever whatever our personality was
0:46:45they would just remember us in our
0:46:46village and they'd be like yeah he was
0:46:48amazing
0:46:49you see that church spire he wants to
0:46:52climb to clean up and ranted about
0:46:54that's not real talkative guy read about
0:46:57the president was a Muslim for a couple
0:46:59of days before he got tired and fell
0:47:02into the onion cart so so that that's
0:47:06the that's the flip side is is that it
0:47:09is in this family of modern diagnosis of
0:47:13mental pathology some of which I mean I
0:47:18don't see what the upside to chronic
0:47:21fatigue syndrome is except that except
0:47:25that it used to be called a what clergy
0:47:29or I mean it was a alright it was a
0:47:32thing that that very aristocratic women
0:47:36fell victim to wear all
0:47:38where they had to lay on a on a Sunday
0:47:40fans on their fainting couch there
0:47:42fainting couch with their with their you
0:47:45know their ether soaked opera glasses
0:47:48yeah they're either soap opera glasses
0:47:50that exactly
0:47:52and finally I can see clearly so looking
0:47:55back through history like all of these
0:47:57if these modern diagnosis have analogs
0:48:00in the past a lot of them were either
0:48:03considered talents including bordering
0:48:06on like mystical talents or they were
0:48:11you know they were integrated into our
0:48:13culture as a like out she is she's too
0:48:16delicate for she's too delicate for
0:48:19modern life and we need to bring her
0:48:21like lukewarm tea and now we are you
0:48:24know we're shooting her shooting the
0:48:26same person full of hormones or I don't
0:48:30know or and Federman's most of the time
0:48:33who so so I'm really you know I it all
0:48:38falls into this family of
0:48:39psychopharmacology that that very much
0:48:46like the internet I feel like still is
0:48:48in the bicycle engine stage of of
0:48:53aviation where the wings are made of of
0:48:56a tissue paper and somebody has a
0:48:59one-and-a-half horsepower single single
0:49:03piston engine and they're flying we
0:49:06could fly right can affect the brain now
0:49:09let's do it so it's all still like it's
0:49:13amazing how much stuff in medicine in
0:49:16general and in psychopharmacology in
0:49:17particular is is still just just a
0:49:21little bit northeast of medieval um I
0:49:24mean how in some ways like pain medicine
0:49:26is so simple the way the pain medicine
0:49:28works is is just ridiculously simple
0:49:30it's not doing something super
0:49:31sophisticated blocking the receptors but
0:49:34it doesn't go to the to the broken hand
0:49:36it goes to the brain right and like with
0:49:38my shrink you know and you know i always
0:49:40i hate to misquote because it's very
0:49:41exacting man but he can sit there and
0:49:44show me like oh these two hands
0:49:45represented the two sides of this you
0:49:47know and these drugs work together does
0:49:49this and that and it's all completely
0:49:50coaching but with the part that
0:49:51really understand is that if my brain is
0:49:53not making enough of this juice that
0:49:55lets me be happy in life I get
0:49:57distracted right but some people use
0:49:59some people get so much of that Jews
0:50:01yeah too much juice
0:50:02yeah i just described everybody i went
0:50:04to high school with so much is too much
0:50:06of the one kind of jitter juice not
0:50:09enough of the other kind of tooth on one
0:50:11end it all presupposes that there is a
0:50:15that there is a correct degree of
0:50:20humaneness you know that there is a that
0:50:22there is an ideal amount an ideal
0:50:25balance to to any mind that translates
0:50:31across all mines so what we are seeking
0:50:34is this this balance this broken this is
0:50:38healing of brokenness where I mean I
0:50:41honestly cannot in some ways separate my
0:50:44depression from my personality and two
0:50:48and this is the this is the problem with
0:50:51schizophrenics whoo-hoo take medicine
0:50:54and they're like that i don't feel fun
0:50:55anymore
0:50:56I mean admittedly i was living under the
0:51:00embarcadero but god I was seeing some
0:51:04colors right and I don't want to take
0:51:06this medicine because it makes me feel
0:51:07dull and you know and they they give up
0:51:10their job and apartment and wife and
0:51:12they go back to living under the bridge
0:51:13because because there they feel like
0:51:17they're like their mind isn't theirs and
0:51:20and for me like I'm not sure what amount
0:51:25of healing i'm seeking and guess because
0:51:28I mean you know what have you ever
0:51:29wanted to be clinical normal in the
0:51:30first place
0:51:31uh well I mean that in the regard never
0:51:35seen it was an option right is it is one
0:51:38of the many articles I didn't finish
0:51:39reading this week was about the
0:51:42diagnosis of autism in different
0:51:44societies and how it's it's such a
0:51:46tricky thing because there are and again
0:51:48I haven't finished this article yet but
0:51:49but it did grab me because part of the
0:51:51notion is that it you know a lot of what
0:51:54we consider autism today you know these
0:51:59tests like do you make eye contact with
0:52:01people can you follow this conversation
0:52:02and you know there are a lot of cultures
0:52:04where we'll be there
0:52:05disrespectful for somebody feel like a
0:52:06kid to look at elder in the eye while
0:52:09they're talking to them you might look
0:52:10at their face but you wouldn't look them
0:52:11in the eye
0:52:12interesting there's you know I mean this
0:52:13Anu could do that any variety of decades
0:52:16it is that's probably this is a long
0:52:17walk off a short pier but you know it's
0:52:20that I mean I think the thing that's how
0:52:23this doesn't sound too homespun but i
0:52:25think it's just natural to want to not
0:52:27feel like you're on the edge you know
0:52:29it's it isn't isn't even to say that you
0:52:32know anybody necessarily crazy like oh I
0:52:33want to be like other people or I want
0:52:36you just want to not feel like fucked up
0:52:37it's just not fun to wake up every day
0:52:39and feel off balance before you even get
0:52:41out of bed
0:52:42it's really depressing yeah it is
0:52:44depressing although that was exactly the
0:52:47feeling i stalked from the ages of 16 to
0:52:5030 like I wanted to feel on the edge all
0:52:55the time that was how life felt
0:52:57meaningful and real to me
0:53:00uh-huh um and I look at other I look at
0:53:02young people
0:53:03cool arm who are engaging life in a very
0:53:09different way than i did want you know
0:53:11when I was that age I oh I did this
0:53:14video shoot down in in la month or two
0:53:21ago and one of the camera operators on
0:53:23the shoot was like 21 and very competent
0:53:29camera operator and I got chatting with
0:53:33him and said you know how did you get
0:53:35here and he's like well you know when i
0:53:36graduated from high school I really
0:53:38wanted to make movies so they were
0:53:43filming an episode of portlandia in my
0:53:46town I was 16 and I just went over and
0:53:50hung around until they gave me a job to
0:53:54do
0:53:55running to get coffee and then pretty
0:53:57soon I was assisting the cameraperson
0:53:59and then i was when i was running one of
0:54:02the cameras and you know now I live in
0:54:04Hollywood and i'm 21 and I haven't
0:54:07unbelievable i get that person it's
0:54:09unbelievable but of course there are so
0:54:12many examples of people that at 16 17
0:54:15years old they're like I want to be a
0:54:17rock star i want to be in hollywood or I
0:54:19want to be a writer i wanted i want to
0:54:21be in politics or or whatever and they
0:54:26had no doubt about that choice they just
0:54:31went and did it and and then at a young
0:54:36age they're very accomplished and
0:54:37they're on a path then they don't seem
0:54:40and they don't they're not sitting there
0:54:42saying but what if i should have been
0:54:44what if i should have gone to medical
0:54:45school what if i should have been an
0:54:47astronaut you know they're like I'm
0:54:49doing what I love to do and this is what
0:54:50i wanted to do in here I go off i go at
0:54:53and I i can't help but contrast myself
0:54:56against them when I was that age 21
0:54:59years old I was you know sitting
0:55:03somewhere it on a barstool imagining
0:55:07that I could and should be doing
0:55:11everything and didn't know where to
0:55:16begin doing everything wasn't exactly
0:55:18sure like how you got a degree in doing
0:55:21everything and was I mean not just not
0:55:28just was inconceivable that I would go
0:55:30down to a film shoot and stand around
0:55:33saying hey can I can I lend a hand until
0:55:37until somebody was like yeah hey kid
0:55:39come over here and hold this you know
0:55:41not only was it inconceivable that that
0:55:43would happen but but to my mind at the
0:55:49time like what a waste
0:55:51they're just running coffee for some guy
0:55:52like and a half second of proposed you
0:55:56might go wait a minute i'm supposed to
0:55:57be a senator and I run night in the
0:55:59senator line right so those you know
0:56:04those people are are certainly a model
0:56:08but if i compare myself to somebody like
0:56:11that
0:56:12I cannot I cannot win you know I cannot
0:56:15think like that is normal and i am and i
0:56:19need to fix what's broken about me to
0:56:21get closer to that because I'm because I
0:56:25don't resemble it in the least bit and I
0:56:27admire those kids i love to sit in and
0:56:30talk to them in conversation but i
0:56:32cannot buy it but comparing my own
0:56:35attributes to theirs would be like
0:56:37comparing my looks to there's there's
0:56:41just nothing I can do to be to be that
0:56:47successful really to be that
0:56:49single-minded and and to be that sort of
0:56:52up on a course and happy with the
0:56:56results
0:56:56I don't know I i don't know why i do not
0:57:01know it if you assume that there's a a
0:57:04bell curve of humanity and we are we are
0:57:07apportioned different traits because
0:57:09there is a clockmaker who has put this
0:57:13universe into motion in order to
0:57:18accomplish some inscrutable goal I
0:57:21cannot imagine why you would load up a
0:57:25human person with my attributes and set
0:57:28them loose on this world i do not know
0:57:30what I am contributing or why you would
0:57:35what why you would even put so many sort
0:57:39of self-contradictory qualities in one
0:57:44organism and basically set it loose upon
0:57:48itself like here you go here you go
0:57:51animal go get them at the animal
0:57:54immediately starts punching itself and
0:57:57saying you don't even know how to punch
0:57:59come out a punch-up like why would you
0:58:03do that to a thing right but there you
0:58:06have it
0:58:06it's what it's one of B it's one of the
0:58:09things i would point to to say perhaps
0:58:11intelligent design is not actually help
0:58:13of the universe is working the kind of
0:58:15design but I mean to have to have that
0:58:17constantly even when it's not that
0:58:18traumatic for a fact did the the
0:58:21constant leveling of that message in
0:58:23your head can't help but become a
0:58:25distraction from taking a step in any
0:58:28direction you yeah self-doubt must must
0:58:31you know something i must always be
0:58:33looming and it raises the question take
0:58:35a step in any direction for why
0:58:37yeah you know and that's the that's the
0:58:39that's that's the insidious part i
0:58:45admire people who build houses for poor
0:58:52people you know like Habitat for
0:58:53Humanity I admire doctors without
0:58:56borders but i do not feel the pull to
0:59:02help people in that way and there's
0:59:06another thing that's like you think
0:59:08about what you're saying like with the
0:59:09kid doing that in that gig in something
0:59:12i mentioned last week about if you want
0:59:16to i do the right thing rather trying to
0:59:18tell them do the right thing work demand
0:59:20and it's useful to create the conditions
0:59:23for the right thing happening and that
0:59:25is something if you said that to me if
0:59:27I'd said that to me
0:59:2930 years ago I don't think i would have
0:59:31I would I would have understood you know
0:59:33grammatically like what it meant but I
0:59:35wouldn't really gotten what that meant
0:59:36and that's the difference between that
0:59:39kid who's not 21 and doing that for a
0:59:41living vs all any range of people who
0:59:44are going
0:59:45how
0:59:45doc I end up there yeah and and at the
0:59:48risk of sounding really subtle I think
0:59:50this is actually super duper important
0:59:51because I mean we all know and this does
0:59:54shading some stuff I said in the past
0:59:55about acting like you're an artist and
0:59:57buying a beret and you know doing all
0:59:59the
0:59:59the
1:00:00affectations that you seeing other
1:00:01people do to essentially traced the
1:00:04shadows of someone else and imagine that
1:00:07that's even close to that what that
1:00:09human being is who they are but that's
1:00:12what's that's a start and now that i'm
1:00:13at the age that I am and know what I
1:00:15know that's what blows me away about
1:00:16that guy is anybody could go hey I want
1:00:18to make I won't have videos be on MTV
1:00:20right back in my day or like I i have
1:00:23this gut sense that i would be a great
1:00:25prog rock drummer and haha on the most
1:00:28fundamental level you go with you ever
1:00:30played drums and you're like no no but i
1:00:32know i'd be really good at it and it's
1:00:34like well the first test would be to go
1:00:36out and see whether you like playing
1:00:37drums
1:00:38do you have access to drums is that what
1:00:39you would want to do and you certainly
1:00:41can see where I'm going with this but if
1:00:42we're going a little bit okay well what
1:00:45if actually you don't really like
1:00:47playing drums
1:00:48what if you try playing drums for a
1:00:50while and you realize you don't like
1:00:51being in a band
1:00:53what if you don't like being around
1:00:54people in the music industry but these
1:00:56are all the kinds of things that will
1:00:58never occur to you if you don't try to
1:00:59play drums yeah and get it but there's
1:01:02another kind of the if there's anything
1:01:04that i am I in my head I wish I could
1:01:05change about myself from the past that
1:01:07it's not notice it's too late now
1:01:08because it is still useful to me is that
1:01:10idea of like rather than trying to see a
1:01:13result of something and emulate that I
1:01:15really admire the people who instantly
1:01:17understand a process over the product
1:01:19and in the case of that guy
1:01:21there's something about in that case
1:01:23maybe just got lucky but he understood
1:01:24there was a big difference between
1:01:26arguing with his friends starbucks about
1:01:27who'd be a better director versus just
1:01:29showing up
1:01:30yeah it's starting to do something now
1:01:32maybe you get lucky maybe some other
1:01:33things he tried it didn't work out but
1:01:35that's that's like another that's like
1:01:37being able to fly as far as I'm
1:01:38concerned to be 21 years old or even
1:01:40that is 19 years old and show up
1:01:42somewhere and not seem like a total
1:01:44thing is you can be able to figure out
1:01:46what this job needs well on this and I
1:01:48think you can I got myself to it a big
1:01:51part of it is he was able to show up at
1:01:53that at that video shoot at age 16 17
1:01:57and not seem like a total dingus who and
1:01:59that is the thing perhaps that is a
1:02:01talent perhaps I lacked whereas i would
1:02:03go in wearing choppers carrying a
1:02:05folding chair without riding crop me
1:02:07shave my head and happy
1:02:08one of the girls on the back door where
1:02:12do i set this chair because I got to say
1:02:15all along the way to change the topic
1:02:16but like all along the way the things
1:02:18I've tried to nominally succeed at that
1:02:20I didn't even fucking understand you
1:02:22know to begin with
1:02:23I've always been put off by how this
1:02:26wasn't how I thought it was going to be
1:02:27so yeah I was honestly it was organized
1:02:31music things because I was never a good
1:02:32team player
1:02:33it helps to be a good team player before
1:02:34you do anything on a team or it helps to
1:02:37be open to the fact that you'll have to
1:02:38be part of that team for example so you
1:02:40know I I be on the team
1:02:43yeah yeah and excited to set aside
1:02:44whatever your notion of how this should
1:02:46go is if you're not constantly raising
1:02:48your hand sanctioned we be seeing Roger
1:02:49welcome now you know where the whatever
1:02:52your idea is from things you've seen in
1:02:53movies and play over in your head again
1:02:55and again when i look at the the kids
1:02:58that I started out with in high school
1:03:01and college the vast majority of them
1:03:04knew what they wanted to I think we
1:03:09would have said knew what they wanted to
1:03:10be rather than knew what they wanted to
1:03:12do you know they knew what they wanted
1:03:14to be at 15 years old a whole big group
1:03:19of my friends in high school decided
1:03:22they were going to medical school and I
1:03:23think it's largely because there was one
1:03:26good biology teacher at East High School
1:03:28in Anchorage that I did not have I did
1:03:31not take his class but he was an
1:03:33inspiring teacher such that a freshman
1:03:38year in high school
1:03:39I'm sure there were a couple of these
1:03:40people who are like I think I want to be
1:03:42a doctor but by junior year a whole lot
1:03:46of kids had decided to go to medical
1:03:47school and when I think about those kids
1:03:50now they are my age you know a lot of
1:03:54them now 45 years old and they are
1:03:56doctors have been doctored basically
1:04:00since they were 15 years old you know
1:04:02they've been on that path i remember i
1:04:06was living in a fraternity house at
1:04:08Cornell for a summer and one of the guys
1:04:12who was living in the fraternity with me
1:04:13over the summer was I
1:04:17he was going to join the Navy to be a
1:04:20fighter pilot and at the time i guess i
1:04:25was 20 21 something like that he was
1:04:28that age and he was graduating that
1:04:31summer from cornell and on his way to
1:04:33flight training school for the Navy had
1:04:38and he enlisted in the navy already well
1:04:40when I think about that guy which I do
1:04:42periodically if he succeeded in getting
1:04:47his wings he was a fighter pilot in the
1:04:52Navy for 20 he's now entering his 23rd
1:04:58year as a Navy pilot and he he knew to
1:05:04make that decision or he made that
1:05:06decision and stuck with it I'm you know
1:05:08I i extrapolate but i assume that this
1:05:10guy is now a full captain in the Navy
1:05:15and retired from flying jets and either
1:05:19retired from the navy or is like running
1:05:21a battle group somewhere
1:05:24and I contrast those life choices those
1:05:28life marks against my own which has
1:05:33mostly consisted of filling up paper
1:05:36bags with stuff from thrift stores and
1:05:40then arranging it is also unglamorous
1:05:42are ending in piles thunderclaps
1:05:45periodically you know losing the thread
1:05:48of what which pile of which pile of hats
1:05:52belongs at what bag and then it's 25
1:05:55years later and you don't like cold and
1:06:01i'm thinking more like gold what and i
1:06:05go i do have an awful lot of cool hats
1:06:07you know that is something nobody can
1:06:10take away from me but i'm not even going
1:06:13to try to buck you up because i know
1:06:14there's no point to it but so many
1:06:16people would love to be you
1:06:18isn't that sad we have no doubt that I
1:06:21am
1:06:21yeah real 1i yeah when I take off all
1:06:23the all the course it's just I don't I i
1:06:30just looked like buka salt
1:06:33I want my own little bit now
1:06:38oh my god oh yeah I i do not like
1:06:45comparing myself to other people
1:06:47it's terrible it's terrible and I just
1:06:49don't find it useful I mean I still get
1:06:51they still kind of do it maybe I'm just
1:06:52scared to do it but it's just so you
1:06:56feel so unproductive to me and does it
1:06:58doesn't is not even makes me feel bad or
1:07:00good it just you know it's just it's I i
1:07:06don't know i don't know what i would do
1:07:07based on that particular like
1:07:10identifying the Delta between these two
1:07:11things will help me to what better would
1:07:14you what differently now I know where we
1:07:15have slightly different minds about
1:07:16these things probably but like for me I
1:07:18just like why would I dalene only put it
1:07:20this way when i watch other people doing
1:07:22that like all the time i just it just
1:07:24makes me like almost seed wondering what
1:07:27are you doing like tell me how this
1:07:29turns out great
1:07:30how would you spend less time comparing
1:07:31yourself to other people unlike more
1:07:33time just doing it
1:07:34yeah it's very unattractive it there's
1:07:36nothing about you I don't feel like you
1:07:38really do that you really do that i
1:07:40don't i don't get it isn't it is more it
1:07:43is more on an emblem of the darkness
1:07:46that settles on me who um you know when
1:07:49i first read the book no country for old
1:07:51men i was in some ways furious because i
1:07:58have been daydreaming about stumbling on
1:08:01a drug deal gone wrong and and sifted
1:08:07you know like walking through what has
1:08:09clearly been a a a showdown shootout and
1:08:13finding like a truck full of drugs and
1:08:16money that was at the center of this
1:08:18pitched battle and then like kick
1:08:24pushing the body that is in the driver's
1:08:27seat off into the dirt in your mind
1:08:29you've already done this a hundred times
1:08:30I had I had I had done it a hundred
1:08:32times before i read this book and was
1:08:34like someone stole my plot but but i
1:08:40have apply your plot for easy money
1:08:43falling in love with soul my easy-money
1:08:46plot like i'm kinda I'm not a guy that's
1:08:50gonna do direct marketing but I am
1:08:52definitely a guy that if he sees brake
1:08:55lights up up a dark road
1:08:57uh-huh and hears gunshots he is headed
1:09:00that way i'm headed that way through the
1:09:03woods notnot away because this is a
1:09:05scenario that has always do you know it
1:09:08starts you know you know that the signal
1:09:10that something we just went down
1:09:11yeah somebody tried to somebody tried to
1:09:13like sneak around the back and and get
1:09:15the drop on them but they actually had
1:09:17the money there was like a they had the
1:09:19money it wasn't going to be a ripoff but
1:09:21then uh overzealous you know young
1:09:24lieutenant decided he was going to
1:09:26circle around behind and then somebody
1:09:28you know shoots him and then he shoots
1:09:31back and then all by schutz everybody
1:09:33and then everybody's dead and here's the
1:09:36and the cars are all still idling is it
1:09:38probably in a gym bag the money full of
1:09:40money and drugs well you know depending
1:09:42on how what how far I want to go with
1:09:44this fantasy it's a suburban full of gym
1:09:46bags full of
1:09:47because they're buying their buying the
1:09:49like a metric ton of squeak and history
1:09:53is week is like a slight minting
1:09:55Krugerrands huh
1:09:57but anyway it caused me after no country
1:10:02for old men came out it caused me to
1:10:03turn that light back on myself and
1:10:05reflect on why i have spent so many
1:10:09hours of my life playing out this
1:10:12scenario and what that what that easy
1:10:17money
1:10:18I mean I think everybody maybe not
1:10:20everybody but i think that carrying
1:10:22around an easy money fantasy is is a big
1:10:25part of of being a human being or being
1:10:28an American and having it happen or
1:10:31being finally able to do a specific
1:10:33thing
1:10:34well that I could finally buy a carousel
1:10:37yeah i can find out like I'm going to be
1:10:39relieved of all of my money tension and
1:10:43Happiness will will a light on my
1:10:46shoulder like a bluebird of happiness
1:10:48who and as I've as I've played out this
1:10:53the scenario like okay now you've got
1:10:55now you have us this untraceable duffel
1:10:58bag full of the pace owns your
1:11:02opportunity and what are you gonna do
1:11:06and the reality is everything that I
1:11:08would choose to do in that moment that
1:11:11would be that I have that having run the
1:11:14scenario would be something I would
1:11:15actually choose to do is something i
1:11:17could just choose to do right now you
1:11:20know if I had if I had 10 million
1:11:22dollars what i do i moved to new york
1:11:23will just go move to New York if you
1:11:25want to do that
1:11:26oh well i moved to new york and i live
1:11:28in a really nice apartment well go move
1:11:30to New York and within a year or two
1:11:31you'll probably have a pretty nice
1:11:32apartment because that's how it goes
1:11:33like the the idea that there are still
1:11:38things in my life I'm waiting to pull
1:11:39the trigger on and the only reason i
1:11:43can't do it is that I have not found a
1:11:44duffel bag of of drug money at a crime
1:11:47scene is this like it's it's any an
1:11:52incredible three-way mirror on myself
1:11:55because all the other things that I you
1:11:58know all the more elaborate
1:12:00choices i would make like i'll move to
1:12:02England live in a castle
1:12:03well you would be lonely and cold if you
1:12:08did that because you don't have anything
1:12:10you know like you're the friends that I
1:12:12have an England would come visit my
1:12:14castle a couple of times you know that I
1:12:18i'm not going to move to some little bit
1:12:19like a friend of yours down a bunch of
1:12:21money and moved into a castle when you
1:12:23be like a quite an asshole
1:12:25yeah i would use a castle asshole second
1:12:28that's your that's what you did you move
1:12:29into a castle that's not gonna let you
1:12:31run out and go oh my gosh let me go
1:12:33celebrate his good fortune in his new
1:12:35castle in which he lives alone right
1:12:37and nor would I move to Florida or
1:12:40Southern California good because i have
1:12:42been many times to Florida and Southern
1:12:44California and I don't even want to be
1:12:45there that long at just passing through
1:12:48this is that quotidian like middle-class
1:12:51bullshit dream of right retirement why
1:12:54not it doesn't have to be with me know
1:12:55if you mind your whole life and you can
1:12:58barely breathe
1:12:58god I hope you get to retire soon but
1:13:00it's just this whole idea of this that
1:13:02the big the big journey being to get to
1:13:04this place for you don't have to do
1:13:05anything
1:13:06yeah that's so depressing and what I
1:13:08really want to do in life is write a
1:13:10book i want to have an article that I
1:13:13right be in The New Yorker I want to be
1:13:17consulted for your expertise as a
1:13:20retired uh that's right i want to be on
1:13:22the board of directors and several
1:13:23fortune 500 companies so much more that
1:13:26is so much more in your grasp then you
1:13:28realize what everyone else on the board
1:13:30Quivers and terror as soon as I clear my
1:13:33throat and sit forward in my chair like
1:13:35all these other guys are like oh shit oh
1:13:37shit don't let it be me this time don't
1:13:39let it be me like I want these things
1:13:41and these are not things that that any
1:13:44pile of bags of money are going to are
1:13:48going to get for me and if I had if I
1:13:50found all this drug money
1:13:52I i would still be dissatisfied I would
1:13:55still want to write a book i would still
1:13:58want to be published in The New Yorker
1:13:59and so that
1:14:04and yet this fantasy is is still a great
1:14:08comfort to me you know when i'm sitting
1:14:10staring at a spot on the wall
1:14:12I no longer am commanding a space battle
1:14:15group like I did for so many years in my
1:14:18childhood because i've i've decided that
1:14:20that is an unrealistic goal
1:14:22hmm to be to be a Admiral even with
1:14:26their the pace of technology is now
1:14:27increasing the lack of pace of lack of
1:14:29technology what we should be we're not
1:14:32where we should be and stuff let's be
1:14:33honest if right now I was watching sea
1:14:36beans glitter off the shoulder of Orion
1:14:38ravu and was but the odds space battle
1:14:43ships on fire outside the 10 Hauser
1:14:44game-high he dies right at three says
1:14:48that i would i would have a little bit
1:14:51more hope for that possibility but what
1:14:53it seems like right now is that if I
1:14:55really pursued that I would just be one
1:14:56of those kids playing playing a
1:14:58multiplayer video games computer and
1:15:00convincing myself that I was especially
1:15:02got better than your operating at a
1:15:04higher level so but but now you know
1:15:08what I'm what I'm laying in repose and
1:15:10staring at a spot on the wall
1:15:12I confess more often than not i'm
1:15:16playing out some scenario great truck
1:15:19full of money goes off a cliff and i'm
1:15:20the only one to see it happen and that
1:15:22is embarrassing even personally
1:15:26embarrassing not even about me I never
1:15:27admitted it to anybody until now but i
1:15:29was already embarrassed by it i was
1:15:31pretty embarrassed just because the 13
1:15:34that looks at the other thing it's like
1:15:35it seriously it's pretty mundane it's
1:15:38like having your ultimate sexual fantasy
1:15:40be to kiss boobs
1:15:41it is exactly back like no no I want to
1:15:44know like what is the most outlandish
1:15:45thing even hundred like kissing purpose
1:15:48just boobs because I think I've got a
1:15:50lot a million dollars in a bag is
1:15:54actually learn that small potatoes you
1:15:56had not because I'm not grasp right a
1:15:58million dollars in a bag if I was like
1:16:00if I if I said on the podcast today you
1:16:02know what I want a million dollars in a
1:16:03bag
1:16:04yeah how long do you think it would take
1:16:06me to get a million dollars in a bag
1:16:08like if you tried or people just like I
1:16:10was like single-mindedly I'm going to do
1:16:13whatever tasting months 18 months that's
1:16:15right that's about what i think and if
1:16:17you don't think that
1:16:18true you haven't really thought it out a
1:16:19lot of you it is money money is and it's
1:16:23not that it's easy to get money it's
1:16:24just a very few of us are prepared for
1:16:26what else comes along with getting money
1:16:28and what you give up to get money which
1:16:30sounds really cliché because you don't
1:16:31have the money but once you get the
1:16:32money you realize that it's not simply
1:16:34just a rich person problem it's that
1:16:36there are there are like everything is
1:16:38fucking complicated it's just what are
1:16:40you going to give up to do and i'm not
1:16:41even i'm not even doing the Kobayashi
1:16:43Maru here I'm not even saying that
1:16:44you've got to golike cheat to do it I'm
1:16:46not even saying you've got to go cause
1:16:48the truck to fall off
1:16:49I think ultimately I would probably have
1:16:51I would actually pull the Kaiser so say
1:16:53but yes I would you know I have seen the
1:16:55end of Tommy Hinds I this is one of the
1:16:58many many many reasons that I find I
1:17:01really really am trying to use this word
1:17:04less because it's not a good word
1:17:06I hate lotteries I hate lottery tickets
1:17:08i hate scratch-off ticket I certainly
1:17:10hit the lines they create the word that
1:17:12you don't want to use hate I trying to
1:17:14use the word hate yeah right Brad to
1:17:16despise is a cop out that I use a lot
1:17:18but I'm trying to avoid saying that for
1:17:19everything because i have I don't hate
1:17:21it i do you poop on it
1:17:23I poop on my poop on lottery tickets
1:17:25because for the for the obvious reasons
1:17:27that meaning any liberal would have is
1:17:29that its work for attacks on our bad
1:17:31about it but it's also it's it makes it
1:17:34hard for me to get my tequila and my
1:17:36daughter's milk and we both need those
1:17:39right dude we do get your tequila and
1:17:41your daughter's milk at the same place
1:17:42it's not going to Kayla and it's not
1:17:44super fresh milk up i'm not gonna lie to
1:17:46you but this concept that if you if you
1:17:49want it
1:17:50yeah well it's the one not if there's
1:17:52the one the only one that only want to
1:17:53finish here and this is the problem with
1:17:55the lottery is in some way the same
1:17:56problem with the John the John truck
1:17:58full of drug money fantasy which is I
1:18:00think those people who go in there and I
1:18:02watched I waited in line behind a guy
1:18:04the other day who paid for lottery
1:18:07tickets with a hundred-dollar bill he
1:18:09bought and got it look at dollar he
1:18:10bought a hundred dollars worth of
1:18:12lottery tickets the guy in front of me
1:18:13and I don't know enough about the
1:18:15lottery system to know whether that's a
1:18:17great better not but I don't think you
1:18:21need to win a lot to keep doing the
1:18:22lottery
1:18:23I think you like any gambling you need
1:18:25to just win just enough to show that the
1:18:27systems not totally wrecked and to get
1:18:29that little Pinot dopamine bird
1:18:31just but it's the the lottery at the
1:18:34most basic level this is a very subtle
1:18:36Oscar Wilde soul of man under socialism
1:18:39kind of point probably but it's the in
1:18:41Smalling of the human soul that the
1:18:43lottery causes because you're getting
1:18:45into such a stupid habit that every time
1:18:49you do it you make that habit stronger
1:18:50you go when you do it over and over and
1:18:53have you done the fucking most basic
1:18:56monochrome of research to find out
1:18:57whether people who win the lottery are
1:18:59happy right well can't even win the
1:19:02lottery people who win
1:19:03no I don't mean that you only get a free
1:19:05scratcher you get that with every
1:19:07hundred million dollars you win 300
1:19:09million dollars go out and find out
1:19:11whether those people are happy because
1:19:13you know what they're not fucking James
1:19:14Bond they're not Tony Stark their people
1:19:17who now have new problems
1:19:20yeah and they are new problems they
1:19:22never knew existed because they don't
1:19:24have the training to have 300 million
1:19:26dollars they take their country kitchen
1:19:28aesthetic and then everyone have
1:19:30document basket now if applied to a
1:19:3340,000 square foot home and I dogs in
1:19:36baskets everywhere they gonna get a
1:19:3842-foot duck itself slightest here's the
1:19:41thing that by the world's largest duck
1:19:43and it makes them neatly you know you
1:19:45know what now I need the world's largest
1:19:47basket the fucking basket was supposed
1:19:48to be here by ten-thirty
1:19:50it's not here this is the thing that you
1:19:52can and a.m and I've run this on my I
1:19:55run this in this scenario everyone this
1:19:57scenario run this you know this admin on
1:20:00my own mind which is let's say you won
1:20:03300 million dollars
1:20:05yeah now what would you do and the
1:20:07reality is if you don't immediately
1:20:10I mean first of all you get halfway to
1:20:11taxes but if you don't immediately give
1:20:14another habit the the next half away
1:20:17just like the first thing you do your
1:20:21you're on the road to madness like a
1:20:23hundred and fifty million dollars if you
1:20:26have that it can start from zero I mean
1:20:30I i have i have a just going to be
1:20:32eating large amounts of the same shitty
1:20:35takeout food you're going to be tipping
1:20:36more for the same fucking pole dancer
1:20:38nothing is going to change yeah i have
1:20:40an incredibly active imagination and I
1:20:42cannot think
1:20:43of what i would spend that money on and
1:20:46and you don't have the training that's
1:20:48what I'm trying to say is like you don't
1:20:49just show up on day one it's like those
1:20:51people who are like oh you know I've
1:20:52never been in a fight but i'm pretty
1:20:54sure I'd be good as a fighter like I've
1:20:56never I've never run more than half a
1:20:58block to catch a bus without feeling
1:20:59like I'm having a heart attack but i'm
1:21:00pretty sure i could run a marathon
1:21:01you're doing the existential your whole
1:21:04life is completely i'm not trying to say
1:21:06don't make money but i am saying that
1:21:07like just imagining like you give away
1:21:10so much in your life by fantasizing
1:21:12about something that would actually not
1:21:13be that great for you if I so different
1:21:15i wish i had all the weed in the world
1:21:17if I well why don't we might be so
1:21:19fucking take all the time
1:21:21I what I would do is I would lord it
1:21:23over all the fucking stoners is a hard
1:21:26as they can do fancy dances with subs
1:21:28donors want some weed
1:21:29hmm we're gonna get it i'll require a
1:21:31fancy dance for that you get it for me
1:21:32and you know what I don't want to give
1:21:34you anyways today sometime tomorrow
1:21:36maybe tomorrow
1:21:37given its like with your sister just got
1:21:39one to get the lid is going tiny little
1:21:41bit that this is the thing about we'd
1:21:43like you know maybe they become obsessed
1:21:45and you're like you come back tomorrow
1:21:47I don't have any weed today because I
1:21:49get so the 18 hit shit
1:21:51oh yeah anyway that's what you think is
1:21:53the first thing I would do a 550 million
1:21:55dollars of course is by both of my
1:21:57neighbors houses and tear them down
1:21:59it wasn't there when I would tell the
1:22:01parts i think i'd walk over there and be
1:22:04like what the difference is how much
1:22:06warning okay here's the thing though
1:22:08there's think outside the box
1:22:09what you really want is to not have
1:22:11those houses there and for them to be
1:22:12gone right now the question is how much
1:22:15warning do you have to give that's a
1:22:16class how much money you got
1:22:17because if you could literally have it
1:22:18level to like while you're away yeah
1:22:20yeah everybody keep everybody off
1:22:23it's like that grade that great old this
1:22:25may be completely apocryphal but the
1:22:27great craigslist gag where the guy i
1:22:30guess it was a it was a millionaires
1:22:32club situation where a bunch of laborers
1:22:34or outside of a a little laborers are
1:22:37outside of Labor hall and guys come up
1:22:39in a truck and say you you and you get
1:22:41in the truck and he he's he's like you
1:22:44know this guy pulls up in a truck any
1:22:46pics 15 guys off the street and he says
1:22:47I'm gonna pay off you know 40 bucks an
1:22:49hour to do some demo work for me drives
1:22:52over there's a house and he's like the
1:22:54only tear this house down yes and these
1:22:5640 guys all go and they tear the house
1:22:58to the ground and then the guy never
1:22:59comes back and it turns out it was his
1:23:01ex-wife's out right right right that's
1:23:03probably that's probably snopes but that
1:23:05is a good one
1:23:06it's a super google video yeah but
1:23:08that'd be a great feeling to walk up to
1:23:09your next-door neighbor knocked on the
1:23:10door and same your house is worth 300
1:23:13grand
1:23:14I'm gonna throw in an extra 50 if you
1:23:16can be outputted after know and this
1:23:18will you pick what they like and the
1:23:19magic christian right I'm like what can
1:23:21you get people to do for money but
1:23:23here's the thing the security guard
1:23:24addresses you know despair certainly are
1:23:27probably better than just about anybody
1:23:29i think we had this discussion right out
1:23:30yeah I easy he knows whereof he speaks
1:23:32and it's a great thing for people to
1:23:34read and but I think it's one thing to
1:23:38have freedom and it's another thing to
1:23:40have impunity and I think people think
1:23:42small and i think if i had a hundred
1:23:44fifty million dollars and finally be
1:23:46free
1:23:47I wouldn't have to do these things that
1:23:49other people make me do that how I am
1:23:51but impunity would be so fucking awesome
1:23:53it would be so nice if you were truly
1:23:56the kind of damage person who craves
1:23:58that large amount of money without
1:23:58knowing why
1:23:59yeah you know like if you were just
1:24:01going to I'm going to build the world's
1:24:02biggest bong i would say more power to
1:24:04you
1:24:04why don't you get us find out exactly
1:24:06what that would cost and then maybe
1:24:07going to a Kickstarter or something
1:24:09right
1:24:09but but if you really did want to become
1:24:11like an evil super genius
1:24:13I that is what i can really admire is
1:24:15somebody who says now
1:24:17no I i just i don't i started I want
1:24:19this house is gone i just i want to be
1:24:21able to do that and not in trouble for
1:24:22it
1:24:23yeah i mean that as somebody who already
1:24:25feels like you mostly operates without
1:24:30impunity who with impunity getting
1:24:34information you need a permission slip
1:24:35without with impunity without with him
1:24:37without what you work with Kennedy you
1:24:40yeah you operate the opportunity i do i
1:24:43do have unity
1:24:44no I I feel like for the most part the
1:24:49the reshaping influences on me are you
1:24:54know the opinions of my close friends
1:24:56but i have it i would take 50 grand like
1:24:59you exactly i mean i could tear the hash
1:25:02take a chair down every house in this
1:25:04neighborhood except that you know that
1:25:07like some of my friends would be like me
1:25:09that was again now that John's an
1:25:12asshole before he just seems a little
1:25:13bit like a curiosity right yeah and you
1:25:17can't buy your friends love you can't
1:25:19buy fear you have to instill fear
1:25:21there's no scratch off ticket for fear
1:25:24if I had some if I had a lot more money
1:25:26i think i would be able I would be
1:25:28around I would be buying so you know i
1:25:29like all those other people the
1:25:31following builders and the dream makers
1:25:33and the rainbow sniffers you are
1:25:34literally practice pressing this in your
1:25:36head every day you know exactly what you
1:25:38do you forget plans I don't say you've
1:25:40probably got plans and tubes right now
1:25:41that you can roll out but my first plan
1:25:44is to build a giant trebuchet and then
1:25:47just Huck like big sort of 50 gallon
1:25:51cans of Quaker Oats just hug him all
1:25:55over the city just see what what to see
1:25:57how far they can gallery oh yeah just
1:25:59think nobody's going to expect because
1:26:00it's beautiful stuff and despise you
1:26:03look up in the sky you see that finger
1:26:04pointer over there so many levels no no
1:26:06it's not even think all they see is a
1:26:0755-gallon drum in there to get oil well
1:26:10but but if it looks like because the
1:26:12Quaker Oats guy
1:26:14oh it's a big picture draw the Quaker on
1:26:16it oh you have you you would make fact
1:26:18similes of the quaker oats
1:26:20uh-huh a little little Janice that
1:26:23changes everything except out of a
1:26:2550-gallon drum so so this perspective of
1:26:28that flying through the sky you have no
1:26:29sense of how big it was to be like what
1:26:32does that flying Quaker Oats thing and
1:26:33then as it got closer to show it just
1:26:35keep getting bigger and bigger
1:26:36ik and your mind would be your mind
1:26:38would think is this thing 50 stories
1:26:41tall like you have no sense of how big
1:26:43it was until it landed and and there
1:26:46were notes every Pringles can a giant
1:26:49fewer if you had a trebuchet that was
1:26:51throwing giant wrinkles cans and
1:26:53everybody knows what it looks like
1:26:55everybody knows how big it is
1:26:56yeah it's got a very familiar form
1:26:58factor its flying through the sky and it
1:27:00as it gets closer
1:27:02you have no you have note you have no
1:27:04idea how what's happening how big was
1:27:07just that's warming up you just at that
1:27:08point you had some trouble she's not you
1:27:10have do you have a sense of it you
1:27:11shouldn't say I could I think for I
1:27:13think for six thousand dollars i could
1:27:16accomplish that
1:27:17okay i'm gonna put that down 600,000 I
1:27:19think you could get and if i could say
1:27:20you should
1:27:21a trebuchet in a back up trash and that
1:27:23and that includes finds they can look
1:27:26even the zoning for a minute 37 for
1:27:28trying to shake if I'm if I'm fucking
1:27:30giant Quaker Oats cans all over the city
1:27:32i'm gonna face fuck haha good thing
1:27:35because it lets zone for oats
1:27:37yeah that's there's get there going to
1:27:38be complaints uh-huh but that's factored
1:27:41into the price how crooked is king
1:27:43county and in seattle KKR you with that
1:27:45would there be a way that you can start
1:27:46crossing some palms in advance you do it
1:27:48before or after the trebuchet derived it
1:27:49isn't a sense of it being crooked it is
1:27:51a sense of I am very wired it was you
1:27:55showing up at meetings and they say
1:27:56there's that guy i know all the power
1:27:58brokers who and so that you may be those
1:28:00relationships that is there a Laura
1:28:02Roderick bloodline that runs into the
1:28:04headquarters of power still uh actually
1:28:07most of the most other most of those
1:28:10guys most of the people that know the
1:28:11old school they're all gone
1:28:14there are a couple of guys like the my
1:28:16TV is a sort of powerful politician
1:28:22local Paul and memory is the Sun SEO you
1:28:26got Sally right Samantha lot of there
1:28:31are a lot of sons of guys who were you
1:28:33know level command partners from my dad
1:28:36but but I have made my own relationships
1:28:38with the local the the new younger
1:28:41generation of politicians here and this
1:28:44is like the bike mayor that's the bike
1:28:46mayor and it's the it's the rock and
1:28:48roll a county executive event you know
1:28:53the roccat rock'n'roll county executive
1:28:57and now that the guy but the Democratic
1:28:59candidate for governor has has expressed
1:29:03area expressed interest in in liaison
1:29:07with him haha so if i get a guy in the
1:29:11governor's chair then I feel like this
1:29:13Quaker Oats plan
1:29:15you know you're gonna be fine this is
1:29:17there going to be a father
1:29:18this happened nothing I don't think
1:29:20about head-butter but there's been a lot
1:29:21of times where you could get some
1:29:23materials or materials you say you could
1:29:25get some stuff that looks like it would
1:29:26be useful for something that wouldn't be
1:29:28a trebuchet many Springs you need a
1:29:31large cup you need some kind of I don't
1:29:33know the details its adorbs
1:29:35yeah okay but Cena logs you could be
1:29:37making again you could be making nature
1:29:39trails a lawyer would be a perfect way
1:29:41to make a nature trail sure I need one
1:29:43truck load of logs who so check out of
1:29:47logs kinds of logs that logs right
1:29:49absolutely
1:29:51ok in fact I think you could build a
1:29:52trebuchet entirely of logs you would
1:29:54mean any other parts i can just fuck
1:29:56this whole thing up for you John I think
1:29:57I don't know she did for the rest of
1:29:59today
1:30:00it sounds to me like this is something
1:30:01you could make today for about forty
1:30:03dollars
1:30:04well I would be a smart be like a
1:30:05preliminary one a smaller prototype
1:30:08yeah maybe don't take out that bodega
1:30:09with some oats that was that was one of
1:30:11my early internet punk-rock names
1:30:13trebuchet actually met a girl who knew
1:30:18me as trebuchet your kingly actually
1:30:20that wasn't leading striking out a
1:30:22folder when you were there that was my
1:30:23friendster profile trailer Shane no one
1:30:26ever got it but there was a girl who
1:30:28knew me as trade boucher on friendster
1:30:32who came to a long winter show and she
1:30:36had no sense that I was trading che came
1:30:39to the show randomly and came up to me
1:30:42at the merch table and I recognized her
1:30:44from friendster well as someone that I
1:30:47had communicated with many times as
1:30:49trade boucher and she was like that was
1:30:51a great show my god amazing wow the
1:30:54Buddha can i buy your merchant I was
1:30:56like sitting there thinking should I
1:30:58tell her I'm trip check your fellatio
1:31:00ontology 69 and her name was something
1:31:04like Sam can go over i don't remember
1:31:06his ex cutter ex got x.x eyeliner and
1:31:14the and i never i didn't cop to it I was
1:31:17just like solar merge i took my picture
1:31:19with their I had five der and off she
1:31:22went into the night and I was like I
1:31:23never I never doubted myself as
1:31:25trebuchet
1:31:26well that's that would be unprofessional
1:31:28right if I mean the whole point of good
1:31:30designer standard don't don't don't say
1:31:31if you know but it's my understanding
1:31:32that you want to keep your secret a
1:31:35secret long after it doesn't even need
1:31:37to be a secret like we don't want to let
1:31:38you know we don't need to tell you how
1:31:39this ending thing worked
1:31:40we're not going to get any of that
1:31:42exactly means that true didn't they're
1:31:44all kinds of things from world war two
1:31:45that given because of the cold war we
1:31:49just didn't want anybody know how he we
1:31:50kept our secret secret for a long time
1:31:52that's how you do right
1:31:53yeah well I'm some of that stuff i think
1:31:55is still secret not because the thing
1:31:57itself but because the methodology and
1:32:00who would have known who would have been
1:32:01involved at what times
1:32:02yeah right and and also use some
1:32:04triangulating triangulate all kinds of
1:32:06things once you have a little bit of
1:32:07information some of those methodologies
1:32:08are still in play the whole concept that
1:32:12there are two concepts about espionage
1:32:15in world war two one is that no Nazi spy
1:32:19survived war in England but the
1:32:22undiscovered buddy was actually happy
1:32:26now pulled up the carpet on every single
1:32:28Nazi spy in England that is that's one
1:32:32of the world war two and and i know that
1:32:33because the Germans kept such good
1:32:35records
1:32:36well yeah and that that the Germans had
1:32:38almost no espionage successful as they
1:32:41turned every agent so the Germans were
1:32:44like they weren't getting any good
1:32:46espionage they were getting all plants
1:32:49planted SPM planted information
1:32:52double-double agent double operative we
1:32:54call that will compromise which term for
1:32:56that double triple secret probation who
1:32:58can and the other myth is that that the
1:33:02UK a and as I don't know if that's a
1:33:05myth nobody knows if there were Nazi
1:33:08spies who who actually were providing
1:33:11good intelligence that were that went
1:33:12undiscovered nobody knows the other I
1:33:15mean somebody probably knows but we
1:33:17don't as a as a people know that the
1:33:20other myth is that the British were
1:33:23putting all these guys in trench coats
1:33:25with briefcases and poison-tipped
1:33:27umbrellas parachuting them behind enemy
1:33:30lines in Germany and they were provided
1:33:33all this incredible actionable
1:33:35intelligence and the reason that we
1:33:37think that is that
1:33:40the the germans captured some of these
1:33:42guys with with umbrellas and entrench
1:33:45codes and they thought well if we're
1:33:46capturing you know if we captured fifty
1:33:48these guys that must mean 500 got
1:33:50through but i don't think that that is
1:33:54actually true
1:33:54the Germans might have captured every
1:33:56single spy it just served in the British
1:33:59to perpetuate this idea that they're
1:34:02spies were getting through a lot of the
1:34:04British intelligence just came from
1:34:05turncoat Nazis but it served them to to
1:34:10perpetuate this idea that they know they
1:34:12have spies everywhere so I think some of
1:34:14those and some of those there's still
1:34:16fueling some of those meals because you
1:34:19never know when the secret might be
1:34:20useful again exactly if you've got if
1:34:23you've got like yeah where the card is
1:34:25not a drop it drop what you call we call
1:34:26the place where you stick something in a
1:34:27hole and then Draco dead you have a dead
1:34:29drop and you know as far as you know
1:34:31it's not been discovered
1:34:32like why would you tell everybody all
1:34:33here's where all are dead drops were
1:34:35have a nice day
1:34:36right because you don't want to tell
1:34:38people what you didn't know
1:34:39yeah don't tell them I do that every
1:34:40game i have safe houses all over this
1:34:44country i'm never going to tell anybody
1:34:45but you should you said too much already
1:34:47so he's the practice of capital exist
1:34:51now Constantine rock-and-roll County
1:34:54deputy eat does he does he does he play
1:34:56guitar like a lazy lee atwater type
1:34:58situation do here I like absolutely
1:35:00loves he loves rock music us shows he's
1:35:04a hip guy because you're familiar with
1:35:05this guy
1:35:06oh he's a he's a he's a bro fruit and
1:35:09you know powerful local politician give
1:35:12me the man in the corner it seems like
1:35:13somebody if you run into trouble with
1:35:14this whole trebuchet thing that
1:35:15accounting guy is going to be nice to
1:35:17have your going to want people working
1:35:18all different angles right well that's
1:35:20the thing i'm gonna i'm gonna call him
1:35:21i'm going to say listen I misread the
1:35:23zoning I thought that this i thought my
1:35:26my neighborhood was zoned for Trisha's
1:35:28you're like an old woman telling a copy
1:35:30didn't see the Sun and puts and cousin
1:35:32i-i-i thought I understood if it's very
1:35:35complicated language I just want to be
1:35:36real clear with this I was completely
1:35:38aware that I was making a trip in
1:35:39shooting 55-gallon drums votes I'm not
1:35:41gonna obviously like I can't take it
1:35:43back
1:35:44look if I turned around and shooting
1:35:45them to the south with that have been
1:35:47alright
1:35:47I have to tell you I just I didn't know
1:35:49up listen listen maybe we can forget
1:35:52about the things that get all about this
1:35:53is the tickets to the show haha love our
1:36:02trebuchet
1:36:03[Music]