Roderick on the Line

Ep. 46 Special: Origin of Roderick on the Line


00:00:00   and [TS]

00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:07   [Music] [TS]

00:00:15   whenever I say your name when you're not [TS]

00:00:18   around I do it to the tune of nasty boys [TS]

00:00:21   by janet jackson i don't know why but I [TS]

00:00:25   don't care why I just love it [TS]

00:00:27   iceland man i'm just glad I'm glad you [TS]

00:00:31   think of me i def for you I i always do [TS]

00:00:33   Mercedes boy how does that go see do you [TS]

00:00:37   want a ride on my John Roderick oh my [TS]

00:00:41   sounds I never really held during your [TS]

00:00:42   name sounds like Peter O'Toole [TS]

00:00:44   oh that's stealing from Groucho Marx [TS]

00:00:47   there's so many ways I'm like Peter [TS]

00:00:49   O'Toole and a few crucial ways I'm not [TS]

00:00:52   you're tall you're slender your English [TS]

00:00:55   mm you're in dashing in that Pixar movie [TS]

00:00:58   I like drunk i enjoy him i really enjoy [TS]

00:01:02   him in the other room there's another [TS]

00:01:04   one on the mpr there's a show that [TS]

00:01:06   sponsored by the Robert Wood Johnson [TS]

00:01:07   Foundation I laugh out loud every time [TS]

00:01:10   here but I want Robert to be a nickname [TS]

00:01:12   too just because you can get the Triple [TS]

00:01:13   Threat thick wood johnson his [TS]

00:01:18   lesser-known brother Richard they didn't [TS]

00:01:19   need a good name the foundation after [TS]

00:01:21   him they just they found the grants for [TS]

00:01:22   just disappearing my eyes you know I'm [TS]

00:01:27   not a physicist but ah well sell [TS]

00:01:31   yourself short you're sweet [TS]

00:01:33   my question is do you think there might [TS]

00:01:36   be some chance that you have some kind [TS]

00:01:38   of a slight electrical charge that [TS]

00:01:40   causes any electronic devices in your [TS]

00:01:43   vicinity to fail [TS]

00:01:44   well it's interesting at I don't believe [TS]

00:01:47   in curses and i am i'm much more [TS]

00:01:51   inclined to attribute the fact that all [TS]

00:01:53   my equipment my my computer equipment in [TS]

00:01:56   particular fails I i tribute that to the [TS]

00:01:59   fact that computers are computers [TS]

00:02:02   although we we use them every day and we [TS]

00:02:03   think that they're great they are at the [TS]

00:02:05   level of development that the airplane [TS]

00:02:08   was when it was powered by bicycle [TS]

00:02:11   motors and had had to have seven guys on [TS]

00:02:15   each wing to get them aloft like we are [TS]

00:02:18   still at the dawn of this era and these [TS]

00:02:20   machines my Apple here in front of me [TS]

00:02:23   which I which I love it's very beautiful [TS]

00:02:25   i'm crossing it now [TS]

00:02:27   but it is up it is a it is other horse [TS]

00:02:30   it doesn't do any of the things that it [TS]

00:02:33   claims to do it doesn't do any of them [TS]

00:02:36   it doesn't do any of the things that [TS]

00:02:37   even managed to eke out it doesn't do [TS]

00:02:40   those things well and it just sits here [TS]

00:02:43   on my table top as a as like a like a a [TS]

00:02:47   talisman of all of all the potential i [TS]

00:02:51   mean i can imagine what it would do it [TS]

00:02:53   I i can imagine that my children will [TS]

00:02:55   will love their computers and watch [TS]

00:02:57   movies on them sluice live streaming and [TS]

00:02:59   there will be no glitches but for me [TS]

00:03:03   it's just it's just it's all potential [TS]

00:03:08   it's there's no kinetic energy to these [TS]

00:03:10   things I find I i find it baffling you [TS]

00:03:14   seem like you [TS]

00:03:15   hmm i'm just for what it's worth i would [TS]

00:03:17   add another clinic or something you can [TS]

00:03:18   go to but you should check the charge [TS]

00:03:20   thing because i think that you live hard [TS]

00:03:21   you play hard I think your heart your [TS]

00:03:23   heart on things while you were you were [TS]

00:03:25   you thinking of his sexual chemistry and [TS]

00:03:27   that doesn't affect computers i do have [TS]

00:03:29   it it is powerful but as far as i know [TS]

00:03:32   it does it shouldn't affect the [TS]

00:03:34   computers [TS]

00:03:34   okay you know what you know what I would [TS]

00:03:36   run a connectivity diagnostic to see but [TS]

00:03:39   it had it would it would only tell me [TS]

00:03:42   that the computer is having problems and [TS]

00:03:43   couldn't connect [TS]

00:03:44   mhm it's not gonna add you know a lot of [TS]

00:03:47   diagonal the word diagnostic means [TS]

00:03:49   diagnose and you can tell you what the [TS]

00:03:53   you know that's good haha that the root [TS]

00:03:56   of diagnostic diagnose Frank diagnose [TS]

00:03:59   okay from the Greek god knows which [TS]

00:04:01   means to know what is the problem and I [TS]

00:04:05   running in diet meaning across daya [TS]

00:04:08   across or to lose weight [TS]

00:04:11   um and this is the diagnostic program [TS]

00:04:15   does nothing it just tells me that it [TS]

00:04:17   can't connect and then there's something [TS]

00:04:20   else that can connect and then pretty [TS]

00:04:21   soon I'm walking around reading a book [TS]

00:04:22   out loud to myself and and and happier [TS]

00:04:27   frankly see strike me as somebody who is [TS]

00:04:29   not a turn light is overused you're not [TS]

00:04:32   a willful light but you seemed to revel [TS]

00:04:34   in in the physical objects of life more [TS]

00:04:37   than the virtual things and when you use [TS]

00:04:39   these tools you you are [TS]

00:04:40   you seem to use them for a purpose i [TS]

00:04:42   don't see you just kinda sitting around [TS]

00:04:45   well I don't see you know usually but [TS]

00:04:47   then I know you're an mp3 tag or so you [TS]

00:04:49   knew a little you know i would i would [TS]

00:04:51   kick around on the computer happily but [TS]

00:04:53   it but it just it fails to live up to my [TS]

00:04:55   expectations [TS]

00:04:56   I'll see a big hands and you have became [TS]

00:04:59   you might be having hidden two keys at [TS]

00:05:01   once or something you know what this [TS]

00:05:02   whole idea that maybe it's the sexual [TS]

00:05:04   chemistry thing I'm gonna look into that [TS]

00:05:06   because it's possible it that that has [TS]

00:05:09   caused me problems and other walks of [TS]

00:05:10   life [TS]

00:05:11   mhm sure I mean it gets me out of [TS]

00:05:14   traffic tickets when the woman when the [TS]

00:05:16   cop is a woman must look a little [TS]

00:05:19   cinemax little cinemax Police Department [TS]

00:05:21   here's the thing [TS]

00:05:21   the problem is you're going to go to UW [TS]

00:05:23   gonna go to the the highly lauded I [TS]

00:05:25   believe sexual chemistry clinic and it's [TS]

00:05:26   gonna be some lady who's working on a [TS]

00:05:28   graduate degree she's probably her hair [TS]

00:05:29   in a bun she's got big big big glasses [TS]

00:05:31   you're gonna walk in there and say [TS]

00:05:32   please find out what my problem is [TS]

00:05:35   help me write but they're right there [TS]

00:05:37   that's the root of the problem before [TS]

00:05:38   she even gets the clipboard out the hair [TS]

00:05:40   is down the glasses are off [TS]

00:05:42   that's right and and she's up on the [TS]

00:05:43   desk who and then and then Alex Van [TS]

00:05:47   Halen plays the drum solo and then this [TS]

00:05:51   happens to me on a weekly basis [TS]

00:05:54   I don't even know how Alex knows where I [TS]

00:05:55   am he seems to always know where I'm [TS]

00:05:57   going to be he's good with those eight [TS]

00:05:59   he plays the that song hot for teacher [TS]

00:06:02   basically double double double kick drum [TS]

00:06:04   thing that he does that right he does [TS]

00:06:06   but it isn't a double-double pick them [TS]

00:06:08   as far as i know how about a little [TS]

00:06:10   paddle double pass not a double pedal as [TS]

00:06:12   far as i know he's playing that with a [TS]

00:06:13   single kick drum pedal must have [TS]

00:06:15   outstanding ankles I got that's true [TS]

00:06:18   mm it's eventually going to get to in a [TS]

00:06:21   jury's gonna have to get one of those [TS]

00:06:22   def leppard deals he's gonna have to get [TS]

00:06:24   everything triggered a fake arm he does [TS]

00:06:27   he have a fact that he was just rolling [TS]

00:06:28   you know Roland mono third arm [TS]

00:06:32   urw are you a big Def Leppard fan back [TS]

00:06:34   in the day right there overlooking read [TS]

00:06:36   with a pre pyromania era def leppard was [TS]

00:06:38   the operator pyromania was the was the [TS]

00:06:42   the bridge that I had a hard time [TS]

00:06:44   crossing everything before pyromania i [TS]

00:06:46   thought was solid gold because it is [TS]

00:06:48   solid gold pyromania now I look back I [TS]

00:06:51   realize it's a great record [TS]

00:06:53   the time very hard for me to swallow [TS]

00:06:56   some of those keyboards and all that [TS]

00:06:59   yeah and it but the thing is back in the [TS]

00:07:01   day the guitar players like 15 [TS]

00:07:02   yeah it was amazing now this is all [TS]

00:07:04   before Shania Twain right this is this [TS]

00:07:07   is mud length should retain what are you [TS]

00:07:10   talking about [TS]

00:07:11   is that not the wash my ears out is that [TS]

00:07:13   record not produced by Robert mile mile [TS]

00:07:15   and will also take highway to hell i [TS]

00:07:17   believe but but he but tonight was like [TS]

00:07:19   15 years later okay I'm just saying but [TS]

00:07:21   you go back you go back you listen even [TS]

00:07:23   to bringing on the heartbreak and there [TS]

00:07:25   is a certain polish glitzy shyness to [TS]

00:07:29   that you would not here in venom [TS]

00:07:31   oriental I'd or your beloved Slater [TS]

00:07:35   you're not gonna hear in venom for sure [TS]

00:07:39   uh yeah but that polish you know ACDC [TS]

00:07:43   you can polish ACDC all day long it's [TS]

00:07:45   still going to be hardcore right I think [TS]

00:07:48   that's why that record stands up so well [TS]

00:07:50   though is that the songs were tired I'm [TS]

00:07:52   sure can influence on that the song i [TS]

00:07:54   mean i love you know me we go back we go [TS]

00:07:55   back with ac/dc but i'm telling you i [TS]

00:07:57   think for a bonds post bonds got record [TS]

00:07:59   i think that one stands up pretty well [TS]

00:08:01   it's partly because it's very listenable [TS]

00:08:02   it's super listenable and I think what [TS]

00:08:05   might lang did then is what producers [TS]

00:08:08   should do which is they listen to the [TS]

00:08:11   band and they say yeah that's good did [TS]

00:08:14   you think about trying a little harder [TS]

00:08:15   next time [TS]

00:08:16   did you think about trying a little [TS]

00:08:18   harder on the next take like sing it [TS]

00:08:20   like you mean it and play it like you [TS]

00:08:22   mean it ok go and and i think in the [TS]

00:08:26   last 10 years last 20 years producers I [TS]

00:08:30   mean every kid with a with a Macintosh [TS]

00:08:32   computer in GarageBand now calls himself [TS]

00:08:34   a producer couch and bands yeah i know [TS]

00:08:37   that you present company excepted sure [TS]

00:08:39   Berlin you are a brilliant producer but [TS]

00:08:41   there are a lot of people out there who [TS]

00:08:44   are actually you are actually selling [TS]

00:08:45   themselves to bands as producers and the [TS]

00:08:48   bands come in they play their song the [TS]

00:08:50   guy you know turn some reverb on egos [TS]

00:08:53   sounds great and it doesn't sound great [TS]

00:08:56   you know but that but the guy that [TS]

00:08:58   that's recording them doesn't know [TS]

00:08:59   enough to say to say one thing the other [TS]

00:09:03   to say like i am you know [TS]

00:09:06   kill that second snare hit or whatever [TS]

00:09:08   that the little the little details that [TS]

00:09:10   that producers that the good producers [TS]

00:09:12   add to make good records great minds [TS]

00:09:17   even in the old days and no matter how [TS]

00:09:19   much I spend I I don't know how to [TS]

00:09:21   describe this but like and i have never [TS]

00:09:23   done anything I've ever done and [TS]

00:09:25   recorded since whatever 1986 has never [TS]

00:09:28   been anything is meticulous is what you [TS]

00:09:30   do because you really do like you have [TS]

00:09:32   the ears to hear these little things and [TS]

00:09:35   I know you've got the bedding today with [TS]

00:09:36   i love garageband just because I think [TS]

00:09:38   of it almost like because it's like the [TS]

00:09:39   difference between exit sketch and [TS]

00:09:41   having a big box of paint like I know [TS]

00:09:44   that I i think i know the limitations of [TS]

00:09:45   this and i just love because it's so [TS]

00:09:46   fast for me yeah right and I've gotten [TS]

00:09:49   really comfortable using it but that's [TS]

00:09:50   where do i go back and I'm just listen [TS]

00:09:52   to other spam where they called cheer [TS]

00:09:55   accident i was listening to and it's [TS]

00:09:57   like I just the latest thing i bought [TS]

00:09:58   and she go back and listen to any of [TS]

00:10:00   those Yusuf obviously flight bags and we [TS]

00:10:03   didn't like pretty much any record by [TS]

00:10:04   somebody good at colton's record and [TS]

00:10:07   like there's like a nice to this [TS]

00:10:09   interview call the other day like [TS]

00:10:10   there's so much like personality to [TS]

00:10:11   every song they all sound different [TS]

00:10:13   it doesn't just sound like somebody [TS]

00:10:14   selected Stadium in in the output [TS]

00:10:17   setting you know and it doesn't you know [TS]

00:10:19   every tracks it's great it's great for [TS]

00:10:21   prototyping but that's one thing i like [TS]

00:10:23   about many things i like about your [TS]

00:10:25   music like about your your records is [TS]

00:10:27   that there's there's so much there is a [TS]

00:10:28   lot of personality and I don't know you [TS]

00:10:31   so on the one hand we talked about this [TS]

00:10:32   with some interviews while back and we [TS]

00:10:34   talked about how the process works for [TS]

00:10:37   you at every level and it seems like [TS]

00:10:39   there is a contrast between it seems [TS]

00:10:42   like you record with relative don't know [TS]

00:10:47   what the word is but it's not that [TS]

00:10:48   you're sloppy or something but like you [TS]

00:10:49   said you're not going to do 42 takes of [TS]

00:10:51   a song but then it seems like you you're [TS]

00:10:53   very careful in the editing and [TS]

00:10:54   listening and definitely in the in the [TS]

00:10:57   track order processing you almost seem [TS]

00:10:58   to function more like an editor some [TS]

00:11:00   ways [TS]

00:11:00   well the M in terms of how many passes [TS]

00:11:04   i'm going to do on a on a vocal tract uh [TS]

00:11:07   you're absolutely right i won't i won't [TS]

00:11:10   sit and work on vocal tract as the [TS]

00:11:12   performer all day but i will be super [TS]

00:11:15   meticulous about getting [TS]

00:11:18   about you know adding little surprise [TS]

00:11:22   moments little teeny tinkles and [TS]

00:11:24   twinkles and I think that some of that [TS]

00:11:26   is that I came of age in the recording [TS]

00:11:30   era when all that stuff became more and [TS]

00:11:33   more possible it's the John Vanderslice [TS]

00:11:35   ization of indie rock where you have [TS]

00:11:40   that you have the time you have the [TS]

00:11:41   resources and you have the inclination [TS]

00:11:43   to put a keyboard part on a song that [TS]

00:11:47   will never reappear that doesn't that [TS]

00:11:50   sound doesn't appear anywhere else on [TS]

00:11:52   the record it's just a it's a two second [TS]

00:11:55   thing that that you feel like is at [TS]

00:11:59   one-hundred percent necessarily on this [TS]

00:12:01   tune and if you if you think back to a [TS]

00:12:06   when they recorded the house of the [TS]

00:12:08   rising sun right they got four guys in a [TS]

00:12:10   room and they said roll it and they they [TS]

00:12:13   ran the song and then they started [TS]

00:12:15   drinking like it if they didn't spend [TS]

00:12:17   months and months putting littles on [TS]

00:12:20   there there [TS]

00:12:23   I mean what they did was they spent [TS]

00:12:24   months and months rehearsing and that's [TS]

00:12:28   something I guess in indie rock we don't [TS]

00:12:30   do as much or at least we don't do as [TS]

00:12:33   much it was also a time though it [TS]

00:12:35   strikes me that that was a time when [TS]

00:12:36   yeah it was certainly more primitive [TS]

00:12:39   recording conditions but don't you think [TS]

00:12:41   this is wrong but I think that's also [TS]

00:12:43   rock music was not taking it seriously [TS]

00:12:47   it was not seen as an already thing like [TS]

00:12:49   in whatever 1964-65 and the Beatles were [TS]

00:12:52   starting that but I mean was really [TS]

00:12:53   until 67 68 people took the time and the [TS]

00:12:56   polish and I wonder if in some ways it [TS]

00:12:58   was just seen as more of a commodity you [TS]

00:12:59   know where columbia records and this [TS]

00:13:01   giant roster of people in the message it [TS]

00:13:03   and certainly things like Phil Spector I [TS]

00:13:04   mean they must have just said okay let's [TS]

00:13:06   bring a bunch of pros in monkeys whoever [TS]

00:13:08   you bring a bunch of pros and just plow [TS]

00:13:10   through this as fast as you can [TS]

00:13:11   yeah it's absolutely right they did not [TS]

00:13:13   think that 50 years from now those tunes [TS]

00:13:16   would still be not just relevant but [TS]

00:13:19   like the the the the underpinning [TS]

00:13:23   foundation of what remains an entire [TS]

00:13:25   industry of selling music and culture [TS]

00:13:28   from 50 years ago [TS]

00:13:29   I mean they made house of the rising sun [TS]

00:13:30   which they didn't write it was a cover [TS]

00:13:33   they did it in one take and they thought [TS]

00:13:36   that it would go up the charts and then [TS]

00:13:39   it would go down the charts and they and [TS]

00:13:41   then that would be that would be the end [TS]

00:13:43   of it you never hear it again you know [TS]

00:13:45   or if you did it would be some some [TS]

00:13:47   bobby-soxer is playing it on their on [TS]

00:13:49   their little collapsible record player [TS]

00:13:52   no one ever thought that house of the [TS]

00:13:53   rising sun would still be played ten [TS]

00:13:56   times a day on every classic rock radio [TS]

00:13:58   station across the country and across [TS]

00:14:01   the world 50 years later 40 years later [TS]

00:14:04   so you're right they just they jammed it [TS]

00:14:06   out and they were like next I think when [TS]

00:14:09   we make music now in the aftermath of [TS]

00:14:13   that we're conscious i think to our [TS]

00:14:17   detriment conscious of the fact that [TS]

00:14:20   potentially we're making it for history [TS]

00:14:23   potentially one day at the library of [TS]

00:14:26   congress a man will sit down and listen [TS]

00:14:28   to all the long winters records and he [TS]

00:14:31   will identify the keyboard patches and [TS]

00:14:34   it would be a matter of some import like [TS]

00:14:36   you think about it that way [TS]

00:14:38   unconsciously because of the way we've [TS]

00:14:41   all minutely dissected the Beatles [TS]

00:14:44   records and the and all those records [TS]

00:14:48   that we love the pink floyd records like [TS]

00:14:50   those of us who love recording that we [TS]

00:14:53   know every single microphone they used [TS]

00:14:54   on every single part in how many takes [TS]

00:14:56   they did that without it I and so when [TS]

00:14:59   you're making music yourself in light of [TS]

00:15:02   that I mean you can't you almost can't [TS]

00:15:03   help yourself and that's a pretty high [TS]

00:15:05   bar though if you're still riding [TS]

00:15:07   against works kinetically your hyper [TS]

00:15:09   just hypothetically trying to finish [TS]

00:15:12   finish a record I that's got to be I [TS]

00:15:15   mean just you must have friends that are [TS]

00:15:17   struggle with that at one point or [TS]

00:15:18   another we all do i don't think i think [TS]

00:15:20   what's the the great bands and I'm talk [TS]

00:15:24   about the great bands of now not the [TS]

00:15:27   great bands of history but the great [TS]

00:15:28   indie rock bands of now there's always [TS]

00:15:30   at least one guy in the fan that says or [TS]

00:15:33   one guy on their team that says this [TS]

00:15:36   thing's got to get done by by monday the [TS]

00:15:40   and the other guys you know if they want [TS]

00:15:43   to take all the time in the world to to [TS]

00:15:45   screw with the Tambling part monday the [TS]

00:15:47   11th is pretty hard it's a hard date so [TS]

00:15:51   that's something that I have lacked [TS]

00:15:53   being a free being a sole proprietor and [TS]

00:15:57   free agents [TS]

00:15:59   um no one has no one has the authority [TS]

00:16:01   to tell me that it's let's do a monday [TS]

00:16:04   the eleventh and so some of tried so [TS]

00:16:08   many many have tried in fact I've even [TS]

00:16:09   like I'm even sent people letters and [TS]

00:16:12   said let's put the black like when you [TS]

00:16:15   when you call your your wife at work and [TS]

00:16:18   say tonight let's pretend that you are a [TS]

00:16:23   nurse coming home or I know [TS]

00:16:26   no you're a nurse coming for a house [TS]

00:16:29   call to help a man who has a problem [TS]

00:16:34   very much like that i have called some [TS]

00:16:39   of my friends and said let's pretend [TS]

00:16:40   that you have some authority over me and [TS]

00:16:42   you are going to come right me angry [TS]

00:16:45   letter or grab me by the shirt collar [TS]

00:16:47   and tell me that my records get done by [TS]

00:16:50   X day and my friends have all been good [TS]

00:16:54   sports about it and they showed up at my [TS]

00:16:56   house in the nurse's costume and I said [TS]

00:16:59   no no I made that what did i send that [TS]

00:17:02   email to you [TS]

00:17:03   Oh visual guy you're looking for some [TS]

00:17:06   kind of constraint [TS]

00:17:07   yeah that's right i'm not looking for I [TS]

00:17:11   mean that's the problem you can't you [TS]

00:17:13   can empower somebody to have power over [TS]

00:17:15   you if you are empowering them then the [TS]

00:17:18   power is still yours you can't give them [TS]

00:17:21   the power and then haven't had any [TS]

00:17:22   effect on you if you're unless you're [TS]

00:17:24   really into role-playing right so yeah [TS]

00:17:27   I've I've I've tried to get somebody to [TS]

00:17:31   to set a deadline and up until now and I [TS]

00:17:34   know that has worked but just recently I [TS]

00:17:37   got a email from my different john [TS]

00:17:41   hodgman and he said get your record done [TS]

00:17:45   by labor day sincerely John Hodgman [TS]

00:17:50   and for some reason the succinct mess of [TS]

00:17:56   that and reading it aloud in his voice [TS]

00:17:59   which Brooks no argument is working his [TS]

00:18:04   voice just naturally Brooks no argument [TS]

00:18:06   got kinda now you put it that way you're [TS]

00:18:08   asking almost kind of like a headmaster [TS]

00:18:10   quality that's right John Hodgman tells [TS]

00:18:13   you something in the in the infinite [TS]

00:18:15   definitive voice you don't you're not [TS]

00:18:17   going to like if you do try and argue [TS]

00:18:20   with him [TS]

00:18:20   you're just gonna sound like you're [TS]

00:18:21   whining no he's gonna say no your record [TS]

00:18:25   should be done by labor day sincerely [TS]

00:18:27   that is all sincerely john hodgman and [TS]

00:18:30   it's actually that has actually had had [TS]

00:18:33   an effect on me I've been working I've [TS]

00:18:34   been writing just I think it's because I [TS]

00:18:38   hold him in high esteem and so I so it's [TS]

00:18:43   a different it's not you know it's not [TS]

00:18:45   that I i tasked him with with the with [TS]

00:18:50   the job of telling me to do it he did it [TS]

00:18:52   he did it sort of independently as a as [TS]

00:18:55   a favor and as a writer who has [TS]

00:18:56   struggled to complete his own work he [TS]

00:18:58   knows you just you do you need an [TS]

00:19:01   artificial wall [TS]

00:19:02   you know what else it is because he's [TS]

00:19:04   and so I've talked about him and I don't [TS]

00:19:07   like we're like we're the best friends [TS]

00:19:08   in the world where not just the guy [TS]

00:19:09   who's really nice to me that's times you [TS]

00:19:11   and him but he on he's eep and people [TS]

00:19:15   like him can have I think can have a [TS]

00:19:17   tremendous effect not just because of [TS]

00:19:20   being an expert and former professional [TS]

00:19:23   liberation but also it's just it's yeah [TS]

00:19:25   we've talked about this at length you're [TS]

00:19:28   so surrounded by people everybody is [TS]

00:19:32   these days especially social media [TS]

00:19:34   especially in your rock biz but you show [TS]

00:19:36   surrounded by people who are not [TS]

00:19:37   precisely 60 fanuc but who never really [TS]

00:19:40   say true things or or would never say [TS]

00:19:43   anything to you that was too far at odds [TS]

00:19:45   with what they perceive to be your thing [TS]

00:19:49   I i only say that because like to be to [TS]

00:19:51   have somebody who you really admire give [TS]

00:19:55   you a note that shows they care about [TS]

00:19:56   what you do and are interested in your [TS]

00:19:58   output on i find that to be a weird [TS]

00:20:02   smack on the head [TS]

00:20:03   mhm and sometimes it makes you want to [TS]

00:20:05   finish things other times it makes you [TS]

00:20:06   wonder why I'm having trouble finishing [TS]

00:20:07   it because maybe I don't think it's up [TS]

00:20:09   to par for somebody like John I you know [TS]

00:20:11   what I'm saying like to me I that's [TS]

00:20:12   really complicated but don't you think I [TS]

00:20:15   mean you talked at length about this [TS]

00:20:16   like so many things the news it's a you [TS]

00:20:19   know you're surrounded you talk about [TS]

00:20:19   you know you got everybody's trying to [TS]

00:20:21   screw you and in you and steal your [TS]

00:20:23   copper pipe and stuff and and a great [TS]

00:20:26   line will prevent shown that people can [TS]

00:20:29   go and watch are extremely long [TS]

00:20:30   interview where you yell at the hippies [TS]

00:20:31   and drink seltzer but didn't you find it [TS]

00:20:34   to be the case I mean you're surrounded [TS]

00:20:35   people hey man that's great like that's [TS]

00:20:37   awesome i really like that thing you do [TS]

00:20:39   with the thing [TS]

00:20:39   well yeah it's just I the the sickle [TS]

00:20:43   fantic nature of our culture now is [TS]

00:20:46   based on this false idea that that that [TS]

00:20:49   nobody can handle the bad news [TS]

00:20:51   nobody wants nobody wants anyone to yell [TS]

00:20:54   at them and so they're so they work very [TS]

00:20:58   hard to never say anything controversial [TS]

00:21:00   to never say anything that that might [TS]

00:21:03   possibly inspire someone to yell at them [TS]

00:21:05   back you know and so people are talking [TS]

00:21:07   to each other in this within this this [TS]

00:21:09   language of like completely failed [TS]

00:21:14   meaning all the time in a friendly talk [TS]

00:21:17   happy friendly talk all the time i'm [TS]

00:21:19   talking about specifically in the arts [TS]

00:21:21   in the West but and an artist have a [TS]

00:21:24   tendency to do it because they had to [TS]

00:21:28   varying degrees they all end up feeling [TS]

00:21:29   screwed at one time or another by an [TS]

00:21:31   interviewer i did this happen to you I [TS]

00:21:34   know where you meet you you feel [TS]

00:21:36   something that you would consider trying [TS]

00:21:38   to be honest and then just means [TS]

00:21:39   everybody but you say something and you [TS]

00:21:42   know obviously some interviews you [TS]

00:21:43   assume that they're interested in [TS]

00:21:44   something you want to say something that [TS]

00:21:46   you haven't said before and by exposing [TS]

00:21:48   yourself i'm sure it's happening million [TS]

00:21:50   times by exposing yourself you get this [TS]

00:21:52   secret some kind of yeah they make it [TS]

00:21:55   like fish that they take they take the [TS]

00:21:56   thing where you say oh that guy's a dick [TS]

00:21:59   and they make it the headline of their [TS]

00:22:01   article and you go [TS]

00:22:03   no I don't think I didn't actually [TS]

00:22:05   something going like the story that the [TS]

00:22:07   my feeling my assignment for this story [TS]

00:22:09   is to get to basically hang out and wait [TS]

00:22:14   mm-hmm and so this person gives me the [TS]

00:22:17   quote that I'm looking for [TS]

00:22:18   yeah best evidence by things like I had [TS]

00:22:21   an interview wants to just I just [TS]

00:22:22   stopped after like five minutes because [TS]

00:22:24   the person was like would you say that [TS]

00:22:26   you have a really are kind of invented [TS]

00:22:31   the productivity space online with a [TS]

00:22:34   blog that has been as jaw-droppingly [TS]

00:22:37   successful as your husband and I said [TS]

00:22:40   it's personally not only would i not say [TS]

00:22:43   that but it's I just can't even [TS]

00:22:46   articulate you how important it is that [TS]

00:22:48   you not even pretend that i said that [TS]

00:22:50   right up [TS]

00:22:52   this is why I as usual with energy i [TS]

00:22:55   won't name names because there's a lot [TS]

00:22:57   of names that can be named when talking [TS]

00:22:58   with you but I i know at least a couple [TS]

00:23:00   occasions you have basically said okay [TS]

00:23:02   this interviews over i'm going to write [TS]

00:23:03   and send it to you that will be the [TS]

00:23:04   interview you up [TS]

00:23:05   I have done bad i was what I really like [TS]

00:23:08   is a little short interview in a [TS]

00:23:09   well-known if indeed periodical and I [TS]

00:23:13   read it like now screener you don't [TS]

00:23:15   always see you know people don't always [TS]

00:23:16   get you and you're like yeah well I read [TS]

00:23:17   it for me [TS]

00:23:19   yeah I said I you know what I'm gonna [TS]

00:23:22   I'm gonna make this easy on us both [TS]

00:23:24   I'm just gonna write your questions and [TS]

00:23:26   my answers and the hill workout great [TS]

00:23:29   don't worry all right you're out [TS]

00:23:30   alright your questions in your voice [TS]

00:23:31   don't worry I'll just somebody signs [TS]

00:23:34   somebody asking for an interview i'll [TS]

00:23:36   start by mailing them back written pull [TS]

00:23:39   quotes the sounds this existence i mean [TS]

00:23:41   the whole industries and artifice it's [TS]

00:23:42   not like we're sitting around you know [TS]

00:23:44   talking about folk dancing or something [TS]

00:23:45   this is you know this is people who call [TS]

00:23:48   you at the last conceivable moment for [TS]

00:23:49   their deadlines and are looking for [TS]

00:23:51   something that they can jam into 200 [TS]

00:23:52   words or whatever in most cases right if [TS]

00:23:54   you're like a like an actual magazine [TS]

00:23:55   some it's likely be some long setting [TS]

00:23:57   aside like a wonderful stranger [TS]

00:23:58   interview years ago [TS]

00:24:00   you're not going to get like a five [TS]

00:24:01   thousand word oh well but even when even [TS]

00:24:04   if you do I mean I the the interview [TS]

00:24:07   that comes to mind for me I didn't a [TS]

00:24:09   long feature in a national magazine at [TS]

00:24:13   one point about a [TS]

00:24:15   about some other musicians that i had [TS]

00:24:17   just been touring with in Spain and they [TS]

00:24:19   were you know they were sort of [TS]

00:24:21   legendary characters and this [TS]

00:24:24   interviewer was he was a super nice guy [TS]

00:24:27   in a smart guy and we SAT just talked [TS]

00:24:29   all day and it was it would it had been [TS]

00:24:32   a very candid tour you know we were on [TS]

00:24:36   tour together and i was there kind of in [TS]

00:24:39   a junior capacity just like just sort of [TS]

00:24:43   feeling lucky to be there and everybody [TS]

00:24:46   on the tour was really great they [TS]

00:24:47   embraced me please don't please don't [TS]

00:24:50   eat off Matthews craft services wasn't [TS]

00:24:53   like that at all know and and by the end [TS]

00:24:56   of the tour we were just like you know [TS]

00:24:58   we we were speaking to each other who as [TS]

00:25:02   you do old friends so I'm giving this [TS]

00:25:04   interview a long feature interview and [TS]

00:25:07   this than the interviewer knows all [TS]

00:25:10   about this tour and so he's he's asking [TS]

00:25:13   me all these questions so what was it [TS]

00:25:14   like and I i I'd only been back a week [TS]

00:25:17   or so from this thing so I'm still in [TS]

00:25:19   this mindset like I'm incredibly close [TS]

00:25:23   friends with these guys my god these [TS]

00:25:25   guys this is a bunch of nuts and they're [TS]

00:25:27   drunks in there [TS]

00:25:30   well these guys are just a bunch of [TS]

00:25:34   head and this guy's riding it down note [TS]

00:25:38   4 nodes and this this massive a article [TS]

00:25:44   about me comes out like heralding the [TS]

00:25:46   release of my new record and all the [TS]

00:25:49   pole quotes are like so anyway these [TS]

00:25:52   guys are total drugs Jonna and I get it [TS]

00:25:56   I get some angry phone calls from these [TS]

00:25:58   people saying like what you know we let [TS]

00:26:03   you into our our little scene and and [TS]

00:26:06   this is you know yet this huge national [TS]

00:26:09   article and your talk about us all feel [TS]

00:26:12   of things and I was like but but no I i [TS]

00:26:16   was I thought we were I was doing it all [TS]

00:26:18   like haha like we're friends and they're [TS]

00:26:21   like boo and they're there are a couple [TS]

00:26:24   of guys from that scene that still I [TS]

00:26:26   mean that the what the guys from that [TS]

00:26:27   that whole world that were that I was [TS]

00:26:29   genuinely close to understood and it it [TS]

00:26:35   probably wouldn't have happened to them [TS]

00:26:37   because they wouldn't have been they [TS]

00:26:39   they would never have let their guard [TS]

00:26:41   down that way in an interview and it did [TS]

00:26:44   happen to me and it sort of cauterized [TS]

00:26:48   me a little bit particularly about [TS]

00:26:50   talking about other people you know i'll [TS]

00:26:53   still let my guard down that way talking [TS]

00:26:54   about myself but if somebody says so [TS]

00:26:57   what do you think of Merlin man i'm not [TS]

00:27:00   going to say he looks he looks bone in [TS]

00:27:03   his underwear [TS]

00:27:04   he's a four-flusher and a double dealer [TS]

00:27:06   and he is bacon sucks [TS]

00:27:10   eazy-e bacon cook a ham I think worst [TS]

00:27:14   dad in the world [TS]

00:27:15   what about that worst dad in the world [TS]

00:27:17   but you can you quote me on that [TS]

00:27:19   I'm not going to do that anymore you [TS]

00:27:21   know because because you don't have any [TS]

00:27:23   power over how that gets how that gets [TS]

00:27:26   messy but there are these guys guys who [TS]

00:27:28   I respected and guys who and still [TS]

00:27:30   respecting guys who enjoyed their [TS]

00:27:32   company who if I meet them at some big [TS]

00:27:36   rock thing like i did I ran into one of [TS]

00:27:38   them in the lobby of a hotel in [TS]

00:27:39   barcelona one time and he can I was like [TS]

00:27:42   oh hey and I Inanna you there's only so [TS]

00:27:46   many times you can like fault [TS]

00:27:48   yes it is slightly indeterminate [TS]

00:27:49   European accent hey uh hey [TS]

00:27:54   and you know you can't every time you [TS]

00:27:57   see the guy grabbed him again and say [TS]

00:27:59   look I'm still really sorry I called you [TS]

00:28:02   a drunk in that magazine even though you [TS]

00:28:06   are a drunk but I know that's just [TS]

00:28:10   between you me and everybody that's ever [TS]

00:28:12   met you but come on this is not to see [TS]

00:28:14   here's the thing John this is an [TS]

00:28:15   occupational hazard for you that I think [TS]

00:28:17   you should turn into an Occupational [TS]

00:28:18   benefit because you are the [TS]

00:28:21   opportunities take this as an [TS]

00:28:23   opportunity that's funny good thing [TS]

00:28:26   right [TS]

00:28:26   I don't know I don't know I did my bob [TS]

00:28:28   odenkirk impression the other day and I [TS]

00:28:29   was really embarrassed but to fully [TS]

00:28:32   break the here's the thing you are you [TS]

00:28:36   know you can you can play sly about this [TS]

00:28:37   but I know how much you enjoy being the [TS]

00:28:39   bull in the china closet and the part [TS]

00:28:41   that makes that complicated is not the [TS]

00:28:45   bullet but the china closet I mean [TS]

00:28:46   sometimes maybe I think you're in the [TS]

00:28:48   wrong store and I I told you a long time [TS]

00:28:50   ago I think you're coming around this [TS]

00:28:52   now that you are a pundit but I said a [TS]

00:28:54   long time ago like I i told you i'd [TS]

00:28:56   consider you are generations Charles [TS]

00:28:58   Nelson Reilly like I think you should I [TS]

00:29:00   think if there's a venue [TS]

00:29:01   you know what I mean you're the kind of [TS]

00:29:02   person that would have been on Mike [TS]

00:29:05   Douglas M and whatever jacked me [TS]

00:29:08   whatever drug that you know i'm saying [TS]

00:29:10   though you like I thought I could see [TS]

00:29:12   sea-ice consider you and punched the [TS]

00:29:15   wrong word about bon vivant or raconteur [TS]

00:29:17   or some other kind of slightly gay word [TS]

00:29:19   like I think I think of you not a good [TS]

00:29:20   way like I the thing is your this is the [TS]

00:29:23   thing about you and this has been my [TS]

00:29:24   counsel to you for like 16 years now [TS]

00:29:26   everyone spent is that is that you on it [TS]

00:29:29   seems to me that like creating excellent [TS]

00:29:32   rock music is is a facet of what you do [TS]

00:29:36   and i just want to say I think there was [TS]

00:29:39   a time when you poop food that because [TS]

00:29:41   you regard yourself as clear that we are [TS]

00:29:43   in employment you know even putting out [TS]

00:29:46   these great records for him or another [TS]

00:29:48   since the late nineties and I just [TS]

00:29:51   wonder how has that changed about that I [TS]

00:29:52   see you being a funny guy on twitter now [TS]

00:29:54   I see you going in doing what I report [TS]

00:29:57   from Bonnaroo you [TS]

00:29:58   how to call them in the believer you but [TS]

00:30:01   you're doing more stuff where by virtue [TS]

00:30:03   of the fact that you are a bull in a [TS]

00:30:05   china closet that attracts people to [TS]

00:30:06   want you to go and put that voice [TS]

00:30:08   somewhere that's it's not just around a [TS]

00:30:10   lot of as you called it don't yell at me [TS]

00:30:12   music yeah well i think i think that's [TS]

00:30:15   that's inevitable because I because i do [TS]

00:30:18   like to talk i like to hear the sound of [TS]

00:30:20   my own voice yes i like to open up a [TS]

00:30:23   newspaper and read the smart thing that [TS]

00:30:25   I said to someone accurately transcribed [TS]

00:30:28   with the correct punctuation but also i [TS]

00:30:35   think the world the world has a a lot of [TS]

00:30:39   people who have arrived on the scene and [TS]

00:30:41   said I am a maker of opinions and that [TS]

00:30:47   is only appealing so far because the [TS]

00:30:50   because it begs the question every time [TS]

00:30:52   why do I give a about your opinion i [TS]

00:30:55   have an opinion to everybody's got one [TS]

00:30:57   and what the world doesn't have a lot of [TS]

00:30:59   is people who have made enough stuff [TS]

00:31:03   that you can have a sense of where [TS]

00:31:06   they're coming from that they that they [TS]

00:31:09   are a maker of things so when they when [TS]

00:31:12   they venture an opinion about something [TS]

00:31:14   else you have some context to to judge [TS]

00:31:20   whether or not you consider that person [TS]

00:31:22   and authority you know for for the the [TS]

00:31:26   internet uh the the people whose [TS]

00:31:31   opinions I value about about pretty much [TS]

00:31:34   any topic are people who have done any [TS]

00:31:36   work of any kind in in their own venue [TS]

00:31:40   so it like I you want when i used to [TS]

00:31:44   write film reviews for the stranger [TS]

00:31:46   which is the alternative newspaper up [TS]

00:31:49   here in Seattle before i got my column [TS]

00:31:51   for the weekly which is the other [TS]

00:31:52   alternative newspaper in Seattle but the [TS]

00:31:55   stranger would send me to review [TS]

00:31:57   documentary films and they did it [TS]

00:32:00   because I knew nothing about documentary [TS]

00:32:03   films but they liked that I had a that I [TS]

00:32:08   had a voice that's [TS]

00:32:10   and from being an artist so I would [TS]

00:32:13   watch this documentary films and I [TS]

00:32:14   wouldn't have any of those oh I wouldn't [TS]

00:32:16   have the language of a film critic i [TS]

00:32:19   wouldn't be able to and I wouldn't sit [TS]

00:32:21   there and say oh this film is just a [TS]

00:32:22   copy of this other french film that that [TS]

00:32:25   happened 25 years ago and has in and [TS]

00:32:28   negates the need for this film you know [TS]

00:32:30   I had none of that I would watch the [TS]

00:32:31   film and i would judge it on my own [TS]

00:32:33   tastes and on the merits of what I saw [TS]

00:32:36   and so I when I look out at the internet [TS]

00:32:41   you know when i see you comment on [TS]

00:32:43   something or when I see a man comment on [TS]

00:32:46   something when I see paul f tompkins [TS]

00:32:47   comment on something or Hodgman friend [TS]

00:32:50   or anything any of the people that we [TS]

00:32:53   know who started creating started making [TS]

00:32:57   art at some point or another in their [TS]

00:32:59   lives and had success had six had had [TS]

00:33:04   success either early or late based on [TS]

00:33:06   the merits of the thing that they were [TS]

00:33:08   like compelled to make all of a sudden [TS]

00:33:10   their opinion is like gold to me on any [TS]

00:33:14   topic you know I would listen to Amy man [TS]

00:33:16   talk about the climate change [TS]

00:33:20   well maybe not climate change but I [TS]

00:33:23   would listen to me man talk about a [TS]

00:33:25   whole lot about things that are real job [TS]

00:33:27   but i would but that's right now I don't [TS]

00:33:30   want to hear her talk about a hoax like [TS]

00:33:31   climate change but i wanna hear talk [TS]

00:33:33   about kind of whatever on her mind [TS]

00:33:35   because her showing interesting and [TS]

00:33:37   independent for a really long time so [TS]

00:33:39   she's and she's someone who and I think [TS]

00:33:43   I know the kind of folks are talking [TS]

00:33:44   about the kind of folks you and I will [TS]

00:33:45   follow on twitter or have conversations [TS]

00:33:47   with and its your right i mean it's its [TS]

00:33:49   people its i totally agree with you and [TS]

00:33:51   this is the theme is a lot of my friends [TS]

00:33:53   seem to share our lease say they share [TS]

00:33:56   which is that personally a lot of your [TS]

00:33:58   friends are liars I mean yes yes I mean [TS]

00:34:01   I wouldn't have it any other way [TS]

00:34:02   otherwise you know i don't think i can [TS]

00:34:04   tolerate it but the i think a lot of [TS]

00:34:07   people I know and admire would say that [TS]

00:34:11   it's not even that I don't even have to [TS]

00:34:14   like what you do and some level I may [TS]

00:34:16   not even need to totally understand what [TS]

00:34:18   you do but i love this [TS]

00:34:20   the country has always said I i'm very [TS]

00:34:22   interested in talking to anybody about [TS]

00:34:25   what they do especially if they're [TS]

00:34:27   really good at it and to hear them speak [TS]

00:34:31   in some specificity about things like [TS]

00:34:35   contrast distinctions quality difference [TS]

00:34:39   and and these are the kinds of things [TS]

00:34:41   that you know and ice is extremely [TS]

00:34:44   productive thing to say but there's a [TS]

00:34:45   lot of stuff on the internet there [TS]

00:34:46   really isn't about a thumbs up [TS]

00:34:47   they might even give you a thumbs down [TS]

00:34:49   there's not really it was not a huge [TS]

00:34:50   amount of nuance you run into this all [TS]

00:34:52   the time on Twitter was with some very [TS]

00:34:54   funny Holocaust related material and I [TS]

00:34:56   think I think the thing that yesterday [TS]

00:34:59   how it got some of the worst like ghetto [TS]

00:35:01   but the point being like you don't say [TS]

00:35:02   is somebody like you like part of what [TS]

00:35:04   makes makes you so amusing to the people [TS]

00:35:07   who think you're amusing is that there [TS]

00:35:09   really is something very very wry about [TS]

00:35:12   it that is not going to travel well in a [TS]

00:35:14   in a reetou to somebody who for whom [TS]

00:35:17   English is not my first language so that [TS]

00:35:18   might be passed around more like that i [TS]

00:35:21   don't know what you think about that [TS]

00:35:22   because you strike me as somebody with a [TS]

00:35:24   lot of curiosity about gosh just so many [TS]

00:35:27   things that people do that are not indie [TS]

00:35:30   rock and Twitter and you think there's a [TS]

00:35:32   thread there i mean is that seems to me [TS]

00:35:34   that these are people who are interested [TS]

00:35:35   in in real things and saying real things [TS]

00:35:37   more than simply mining what seems to be [TS]

00:35:42   something other people would expect from [TS]

00:35:43   them [TS]

00:35:44   well it's hot it's hard on the listener [TS]

00:35:47   if I mean a lot of the things that i say [TS]

00:35:49   this podcast for instance i'm sure burns [TS]

00:35:53   a lot of people's ears because they're [TS]

00:35:55   not used to hearing people talk in a [TS]

00:35:57   tone of voice even that is contentious [TS]

00:36:01   with without the art without it [TS]

00:36:04   developing into a fight you know and you [TS]

00:36:07   and I can sit and talk for six hours and [TS]

00:36:10   22 somebody sitting at the table next to [TS]

00:36:12   us it would sound like we were having an [TS]

00:36:14   argument the entire time it's the Larry [TS]

00:36:16   David problem everything out about the [TS]

00:36:18   wall mounts sounds like it's some kind [TS]

00:36:19   of can you know we're making some [TS]

00:36:21   contention and the other person you do [TS]

00:36:23   this to me all the time you like [TS]

00:36:24   no no and then you agree with me i don't [TS]

00:36:27   know i know but it is you know I think [TS]

00:36:30   it's perceived and I this is not [TS]

00:36:31   peculiar to TN [TS]

00:36:33   but I think loudmouths like us i think [TS]

00:36:35   when in certain contexts it can come out [TS]

00:36:38   as yes a judgment but a judgment that [TS]

00:36:42   really demands a response and and I want [TS]

00:36:46   to make a slight bridge to to a bigger [TS]

00:36:48   and broader point here which is that I [TS]

00:36:49   and getting to your your stuff you've [TS]

00:36:51   done your record you're working on some [TS]

00:36:53   changes in your life but i wonder [TS]

00:36:54   whether in some ways it's this [TS]

00:36:56   expectation of a certain kind of [TS]

00:36:59   familiarity where it could be vanilla or [TS]

00:37:01   it could be french vanilla or vanilla [TS]

00:37:03   with strawberries but like it still [TS]

00:37:05   needs to be that one flavor and if [TS]

00:37:07   you're expecting it's almost like you [TS]

00:37:09   hand somebody they think they're getting [TS]

00:37:11   an iced tea but you have a dr pepper and [TS]

00:37:13   the palate is is not really ready for [TS]

00:37:15   that and it's I don't think anything [TS]

00:37:17   wrong with them is nothing wrong with us [TS]

00:37:18   it's just that that's not the way that a [TS]

00:37:20   lot of people talk to each other and the [TS]

00:37:22   thread i'm trying to find there's a lot [TS]

00:37:23   of this is it seems like it seems like [TS]

00:37:26   today it feels like there's a lot of [TS]

00:37:29   advantage to fostering familiarity right [TS]

00:37:33   and that goes right back to putting out [TS]

00:37:34   animals records because you know we know [TS]

00:37:37   that will sell you know [TS]

00:37:38   yeah give it up but it's also the Balkan [TS]

00:37:41   izing of the Balkan izing and and [TS]

00:37:44   repackaging and fetishizing of really [TS]

00:37:48   small cultures that I answer the the the [TS]

00:37:56   the constant pandering that [TS]

00:37:59   entertainment does to us now you know [TS]

00:38:02   there there's very little there's very [TS]

00:38:04   little in the way of music or or film [TS]

00:38:10   that or a No in a lot of ways or novel [TS]

00:38:14   writing that is genuinely challenging [TS]

00:38:17   we're all pretty we're all pretty well [TS]

00:38:20   we're all pretty self-aware now and [TS]

00:38:23   we're all pretty cynical and so what we [TS]

00:38:28   want is for to talk about Star Wars and [TS]

00:38:30   what we wanted somebody to write a fit [TS]

00:38:32   the feel-good movie of the summer and [TS]

00:38:35   nobody wants I mean there is no modern [TS]

00:38:39   Oscar Wilde because who could you know [TS]

00:38:43   who was a polymath [TS]

00:38:45   and a social critic and a you know like [TS]

00:38:49   you still can cherry cherry a controller [TS]

00:38:51   in but also a contrarian in realms that [TS]

00:38:55   were truly dangerous you know that he [TS]

00:38:57   ultimately in some that was put on trial [TS]

00:38:59   for and convicted and imprisoned and [TS]

00:39:04   none of those those steaks don't really [TS]

00:39:06   exist in the same way so somebody can be [TS]

00:39:09   a a social critic and a polymath and a [TS]

00:39:13   ball move on and man either you like him [TS]

00:39:15   or you don't change the channel [TS]

00:39:17   I'm gonna go listen to the polymath that [TS]

00:39:19   I think is funny and and so with that [TS]

00:39:23   you lose the the Frisian of kind of [TS]

00:39:28   being captivated by somebody that you [TS]

00:39:30   don't like or captivated by somebody [TS]

00:39:33   whose opinion gets under your skin and [TS]

00:39:36   so and that has an effect on the [TS]

00:39:38   creator's right so a lot of a lot of the [TS]

00:39:40   people on Twitter that I respect top [TS]

00:39:43   there if they work so hard for a thumbs [TS]

00:39:46   up [TS]

00:39:46   you know everybody on the internet is [TS]

00:39:48   just trying to get a thumbs up and [TS]

00:39:50   frankly I don't give a about a thumbs up [TS]

00:39:53   and that's a and and what happens then [TS]

00:39:57   is that you you risk not having 250,000 [TS]

00:40:01   Twitter followers because a lot of [TS]

00:40:04   people are like I give that up thumbs [TS]

00:40:06   down [TS]

00:40:07   goodbye and it's over your relationship [TS]

00:40:10   with them is over they're never going to [TS]

00:40:11   come back they they read one thing you [TS]

00:40:13   wrote about some inconsequential thing [TS]

00:40:16   they misinterpreted it in the first [TS]

00:40:18   place because they don't know you they [TS]

00:40:20   don't know your context and all of a [TS]

00:40:23   sudden you just well you know you're off [TS]

00:40:24   their list and so there is no room for [TS]

00:40:27   sir I take umbrage at what you've said [TS]

00:40:32   but I admire the language you used so [TS]

00:40:36   but it's you all it's already like if [TS]

00:40:38   the clash if the clash started today [TS]

00:40:41   they wouldn't be successful in in less [TS]

00:40:43   just drummer follow you back because [TS]

00:40:47   because now I mean add one gathering for [TS]

00:40:50   what you're saying in part is that you [TS]

00:40:52   know de kaash even five years ago this [TS]

00:40:54   was different but it's funny how today [TS]

00:40:56   partly from market forces partly from [TS]

00:40:58   social media partly from all of this [TS]

00:41:00   sort of submarkets you discuss the [TS]

00:41:04   consumer us consumer of of toots or a [TS]

00:41:08   consumer of you know downloads or [TS]

00:41:10   consumer anything in some ways don't you [TS]

00:41:12   think that the consumer sets the [TS]

00:41:14   expectation in a way that's really [TS]

00:41:16   fundamentally different than the [TS]

00:41:18   producers have historically been used to [TS]

00:41:21   oh absolutely you could not think it's [TS]

00:41:23   almost as good or bad or like you want [TS]

00:41:25   to respond [TS]

00:41:25   oh I can have that no but you know what [TS]

00:41:28   I'm saying I mean there's a time when [TS]

00:41:29   part of what made punk rock so bracing [TS]

00:41:31   for people setting aside the economic [TS]

00:41:33   conditions in England stuff like that [TS]

00:41:35   part of it was that confident the [TS]

00:41:36   confrontational part of that part of [TS]

00:41:38   what made contains to make like Marcel [TS]

00:41:41   Duchamp is is still mind-boggling to me [TS]

00:41:43   like I forget about more about my [TS]

00:41:45   soldiers and look at stuff in special [TS]

00:41:46   read about his stuff and I mean gosh [TS]

00:41:49   maybe even more than Picasso he was he [TS]

00:41:51   was doing something i'm not talking [TS]

00:41:53   about the urinal I'm just talking about [TS]

00:41:54   everything he did was just a thing that [TS]

00:41:57   he did and he wasn't worried about like [TS]

00:41:59   whether you got it [TS]

00:42:01   he was he was really but I think it [TS]

00:42:03   would be hard not to have seen almost [TS]

00:42:04   everything in the dots and all that was [TS]

00:42:06   really hard to see everything they did [TS]

00:42:08   is being somewhat confrontational by [TS]

00:42:11   design and I think that kind of the [TS]

00:42:13   could talk about new wave movies [TS]

00:42:14   whatever these are things that were [TS]

00:42:15   meant to challenge your expectations of [TS]

00:42:19   the medium and to make you rethink I had [TS]

00:42:22   a pretty deep level how you see and [TS]

00:42:28   process this stuff you know this is one [TS]

00:42:30   last thing I wild passion while such a [TS]

00:42:32   great character there is some an essay [TS]

00:42:35   he wrote on time called the soul of man [TS]

00:42:38   under socialism was it that the artists [TS]

00:42:41   creative but there's one where he wrote [TS]

00:42:42   about how after the impression is you [TS]

00:42:43   never see water the same way again and i [TS]

00:42:45   happen to think that's true [TS]

00:42:46   once you've really seen a giant is Monet [TS]

00:42:48   at you know at MoMA or something you [TS]

00:42:51   don't water looks like an impressionist [TS]

00:42:53   painting now any part of the role side [TS]

00:42:55   of Babel but the part of the role of of [TS]

00:42:57   art has always been to help you reshape [TS]

00:43:00   the way that you see things and you're [TS]

00:43:02   not going to fundamentally have an [TS]

00:43:04   impact with people if you're mainly [TS]

00:43:06   trying to iterate on something that [TS]

00:43:09   you won't be too jarring to people [TS]

00:43:12   that's to accept that you'll never see [TS]

00:43:15   water the same way again after you've [TS]

00:43:17   seen the impressionist but there was [TS]

00:43:19   only one time in history where one [TS]

00:43:23   minute there were no Impressionists [TS]

00:43:25   and then there were right and and Oscar [TS]

00:43:28   was was there for that now we are we're [TS]

00:43:33   taking to see impressionist paintings in [TS]

00:43:35   museums when we were five years old on [TS]

00:43:37   kindergarten tours and so for us [TS]

00:43:40   personally in a lot of ways there never [TS]

00:43:44   was a time that we did that we saw water [TS]

00:43:46   without also knowing about the [TS]

00:43:48   Impressionists and the impressionistic [TS]

00:43:51   painting of water ultimately are now we [TS]

00:43:55   see them as as the you know kind of a [TS]

00:43:57   close-up as a used as a backdrop for a [TS]

00:44:00   coca-cola ad or whatever and and the [TS]

00:44:03   impact of those things and the amazement [TS]

00:44:06   that that's absolutely still possible [TS]

00:44:09   but it requires more work you don't just [TS]

00:44:11   you don't just get introduced to it and [TS]

00:44:13   sit there and have your mind blown [TS]

00:44:14   anymore you have to have to stare at it [TS]

00:44:17   and go back to a place where your mind [TS]

00:44:19   is capable of being blown in order to [TS]

00:44:22   have it be blown again because you're i [TS]

00:44:24   can just you know can can see this stuff [TS]

00:44:27   just as as a wallpaper [TS]

00:44:30   I I'll just beginning to shop i went [TS]

00:44:32   with a good friend of mine the musician [TS]

00:44:34   John Wesley Harding who is also the [TS]

00:44:38   novelist Wesley Stace he took me to the [TS]

00:44:40   philadelphia museum of our collection of [TS]

00:44:43   tea shop stuff earlier this year and I [TS]

00:44:48   spent it took me a half an hour just [TS]

00:44:53   being in the presence of the work to [TS]

00:44:56   reset my brain so that i could even look [TS]

00:45:00   at it without without just seeing it as [TS]

00:45:04   all the things that were derived from [TS]

00:45:07   meant without seeing it as as just a [TS]

00:45:12   bunch of construction paper or just [TS]

00:45:14   somebody like trying out some ideas I [TS]

00:45:17   mean I had to sit with it and this is [TS]

00:45:20   too i think of any art [TS]

00:45:21   frankly yeah that's definitely true love [TS]

00:45:23   of paintings and I think it's really [TS]

00:45:25   true of poetry with it out and my twenty [TS]

00:45:28   century painting teacher best class I [TS]

00:45:30   took in college really got got this [TS]

00:45:32   through me when she put these slides up [TS]

00:45:34   and she'd say okay this helen [TS]

00:45:36   frankenthaler color field thing you're [TS]

00:45:38   looking at is really faded on this old [TS]

00:45:40   slide but if you when you see one of [TS]

00:45:42   these important like when you see your [TS]

00:45:43   first then go and you see the impasto [TS]

00:45:47   and you see there's like almost half an [TS]

00:45:49   inch of paint at some points you get all [TS]

00:45:51   my gosh this guy really this guy was [TS]

00:45:53   really had a lot going on this is more [TS]

00:45:56   than just a blue and yellow thing of a [TS]

00:45:58   field like this is this is you can [TS]

00:46:00   really see this guy's soul when these [TS]

00:46:01   little pointy bits of paint and with [TS]

00:46:03   poetry like hearing Richard Hugo you [TS]

00:46:06   know three degrees of grain phillipsburg [TS]

00:46:09   is really different than scanning it on [TS]

00:46:10   tumblr page it's very very different [TS]

00:46:12   well but so now extend that extend that [TS]

00:46:15   to a to some indie rock music that took [TS]

00:46:20   three years to write and record and you [TS]

00:46:25   know imagine how many people are gonna [TS]

00:46:27   rip it into their itunes and give it [TS]

00:46:32   even 1000 that much attention you know [TS]

00:46:38   clear mind put it on not be listening to [TS]

00:46:42   a water surfing the internet not be [TS]

00:46:44   hosting two while they're doing [TS]

00:46:45   conditions at the jump in here i was at [TS]

00:46:48   your house is the area where your mom's [TS]

00:46:50   house I remember sitting in the dining [TS]

00:46:52   room and you're like okay like I've done [TS]

00:46:55   before [TS]

00:46:56   I'm gonna let you listen to this I'm [TS]

00:46:58   gonna let you listen to these are these [TS]

00:47:00   are that I I think someone was one was [TS]

00:47:02   on his departure and teaspoon what what [TS]

00:47:06   era was a teaspoon that would have been [TS]

00:47:08   too early 2006 case we sit down you've [TS]

00:47:12   got like a CD or something and we sit [TS]

00:47:14   down and every single time you've been [TS]

00:47:17   very generous letting me as I've you [TS]

00:47:19   send me stuff that's not out that i love [TS]

00:47:20   and like you would get so pissed that I [TS]

00:47:24   would not like you just sit and [TS]

00:47:27   literally just listen to the music now [TS]

00:47:30   is close either down yes [TS]

00:47:33   yes absolutely and I've done with you [TS]

00:47:35   I've really gotta listen to this you'll [TS]

00:47:36   turn off the TV like doing anything and [TS]

00:47:37   all I can hear is a little bit from that [TS]

00:47:40   leads me to believe from the headphones [TS]

00:47:41   and you breathing very very loudly one I [TS]

00:47:43   don't know if you know you do that very [TS]

00:47:44   very loudly but and you sit there and a [TS]

00:47:46   hundred percent of your attention goes [TS]

00:47:49   to that and I'm just thinking when [TS]

00:47:51   you're committing something like the [TS]

00:47:52   commander thinks aloud to to tape to too [TS]

00:47:57   hard drive like you must you really are [TS]

00:47:59   thinking I have to guess about some [TS]

00:48:02   version of you sitting there with the [TS]

00:48:04   headphones on breathing heavily and [TS]

00:48:05   really focusing a hundred percent and [TS]

00:48:08   that'sthat's what you make though you're [TS]

00:48:09   not making like you're not making stuff [TS]

00:48:11   for somebody to listen to once on a jog [TS]

00:48:13   and a shuffle you're trying to create [TS]

00:48:15   some projecting here but actually that [TS]

00:48:18   that's a big part of what you do when [TS]

00:48:20   I'm sitting in the studio I'm absolutely [TS]

00:48:22   making the music for the person that is [TS]

00:48:24   either sitting in a dark room with their [TS]

00:48:26   headphones on listening to with their [TS]

00:48:28   eyes closed or driving in a car with the [TS]

00:48:32   stereo on super loud driving through [TS]

00:48:35   some vineyards in Northern California [TS]

00:48:38   and those are the character wonder it [TS]

00:48:41   takes you so long to put out a record [TS]

00:48:42   high collide good for the finger people [TS]

00:48:45   but as a and that's right my people but [TS]

00:48:48   as a as a writer the feedback I get from [TS]

00:48:51   people is oh my god I for the last three [TS]

00:48:56   weeks every time I get on the [TS]

00:48:58   stairmaster my itunes brings up one of [TS]

00:49:02   your tunes and so I started thinking of [TS]

00:49:04   you guys is like my Stairmaster band and [TS]

00:49:08   that is so awesome now i love you guys [TS]

00:49:11   that such a giant compliment though John [TS]

00:49:13   it's a massive compliment i don't i [TS]

00:49:14   don't take it as a I don't take it the [TS]

00:49:16   wrong way at all but but it's so it's so [TS]

00:49:20   it's not how my life I not how I consume [TS]

00:49:25   things that i love or meter media back [TS]

00:49:29   on that I have to just let that be I [TS]

00:49:32   can't I can't I because i cannot find an [TS]

00:49:35   entry point for myself into that like [TS]

00:49:37   your Stairmaster band cool [TS]

00:49:40   my mind wasn't my was always interval [TS]

00:49:42   was your Stairmaster band will that when [TS]

00:49:45   they first put out that bright lights [TS]

00:49:46   record [TS]

00:49:46   that was and I was exercising for the [TS]

00:49:49   very short window of time is always [TS]

00:49:50   interval you know I open for those guys [TS]

00:49:53   once and they were dicks [TS]

00:49:54   yeah that's really not that surprising [TS]

00:49:56   to me this is what it was a long time [TS]

00:49:58   ago they were young they might be really [TS]

00:50:00   nice guys now they were total dicks they [TS]

00:50:02   were they seriously were like had their [TS]

00:50:04   manager come and say that bowl of corn [TS]

00:50:09   chips is Interpol's bowl of corn chips [TS]

00:50:13   so can you guys stop eating those corn [TS]

00:50:15   too well they changed a lot i used to [TS]

00:50:16   like a lot better when they're called [TS]

00:50:17   joy division that was staying with Peter [TS]

00:50:20   Hook and it's played out but um I'm [TS]

00:50:24   trying to I'm trying to find the thread [TS]

00:50:26   and the opportunity to jump and jump [TS]

00:50:28   around a little bit in mind let's just [TS]

00:50:29   jump but don't find a thread just leap [TS]

00:50:31   into the world I'm trying John I know [TS]

00:50:33   you find me scattered I know other [TS]

00:50:34   people find scattered and and I I don't [TS]

00:50:37   always get this opportunity with you [TS]

00:50:38   we've talked before about how we need to [TS]

00:50:40   do is what is that what is that [TS]

00:50:41   that's my that's my little bell and i [TS]

00:50:43   keep on my desk so that when I need to [TS]

00:50:45   reset i go and then it's alright yeah [TS]

00:50:49   you know really not having this one if I [TS]

00:50:51   really need a recess totally different [TS]

00:50:58   ads but i have no I have no context for [TS]

00:51:01   wrapping my head around any of your bell [TS]

00:51:02   related activity this sounds completely [TS]

00:51:04   at odds [TS]

00:51:06   titre oh that sounded like could you [TS]

00:51:09   please check me into this small motel [TS]

00:51:11   that's right that's right how many does [TS]

00:51:13   he have on your desk rodder uh on my [TS]

00:51:15   desk right now i just have those two [TS]

00:51:17   bells but around the house i have [TS]

00:51:19   probably 40 bills [TS]

00:51:23   nope no no that's just hasn't been on a [TS]

00:51:26   glass it's a pencil on an incredible [TS]

00:51:28   hulk glass good job next question let's [TS]

00:51:30   go to lightning round [TS]

00:51:32   gosh so much I want to talk to you about [TS]

00:51:33   we we talked up a lot we gonna start [TS]

00:51:35   this from my dog the dark my dear for [TS]

00:51:38   podcast we still got to do this roderick [TS]

00:51:39   online it's just you me talking on the [TS]

00:51:41   phone once a week we put it out we got [TS]

00:51:42   to do this are we doing that right now [TS]

00:51:44   well this is a year on that you're on a [TS]

00:51:46   podcast that idea right now and so this [TS]

00:51:49   is not precisely that we're going to do [TS]

00:51:51   a different podcast where we do the same [TS]

00:51:52   thing [TS]

00:51:53   eventually everyone will have several [TS]

00:51:54   podcasts I think eventually I'm excited [TS]

00:51:56   about i did a podcast the other day [TS]

00:51:57   really did you make a pod did [TS]

00:52:00   did you make an RSS was somebody else's [TS]

00:52:02   part i did make an RSS can ask his [TS]

00:52:05   partner on i did an online haha i had a [TS]

00:52:10   pretty good online this morning [TS]

00:52:11   yeah a lot of God listening I i like i [TS]

00:52:15   like doing on lines it was a podcast [TS]

00:52:18   called the air-raid young guy in Iraq I [TS]

00:52:25   up here in Seattle asked me to come to [TS]

00:52:27   his podcast and takes a long time he had [TS]

00:52:30   it set up in such a way that every time [TS]

00:52:32   you move your chair the microphone would [TS]

00:52:36   vibrate for like 30 seconds a shock [TS]

00:52:38   mount and a shocking on anything we had [TS]

00:52:41   a shock mounting and then he Mount heat [TS]

00:52:42   so the mic is on a shock mount and then [TS]

00:52:45   he mounted the shock mount to the table [TS]

00:52:49   that we were both sitting at so if you [TS]

00:52:52   if you if you took if you hit the table [TS]

00:52:54   with your hand it it just it vibrated [TS]

00:52:57   through the whole system i was like did [TS]

00:52:59   you think about mounting that to [TS]

00:53:01   something else i am a senior picture my [TS]

00:53:04   setup I've got a unit that rode [TS]

00:53:06   podcaster shockmount it's on one of [TS]

00:53:08   those little like a little crappy ones [TS]

00:53:10   you would you like to make a kick drum [TS]

00:53:11   mic with a really heavy bass with a [TS]

00:53:13   little short and hit your table right [TS]

00:53:15   now with your hand okay okay so you can [TS]

00:53:18   hear the tale but I think you putting [TS]

00:53:20   them through the mic at all okay and [TS]

00:53:21   then the thing is here's the real [TS]

00:53:22   tricking ok so this is as i've posted [TS]

00:53:25   before this is sitting on top to get a [TS]

00:53:28   page count here it's sitting on top of [TS]

00:53:30   the giant-size x-men a book it's a [TS]

00:53:35   chance on a two-and-a-half-inch book [TS]

00:53:36   from the classic period of of the x-men [TS]

00:53:40   and I think that happen during to your [TS]

00:53:42   audience right now i'm not i haven't [TS]

00:53:43   read the whole thing but it it sets i [TS]

00:53:47   think a lot of the vibrations [TS]

00:53:51   um yeah I have my speakers my monitor [TS]

00:53:54   speakers in my studio sitting on top of [TS]

00:53:56   both of them are on top of stacks of [TS]

00:53:58   beetles books books about the Beatles [TS]

00:54:00   that is I can't get enough for this you [TS]

00:54:03   know what one of those cash [TS]

00:54:04   right on top how did you know that i'm [TS]

00:54:07   on topic I now as you know that that's [TS]

00:54:09   awesome [TS]

00:54:09   mhm on the other let me guess there's a [TS]

00:54:11   post-it note above your desk that has [TS]

00:54:13   written on in sharpie on topic ! ! i [TS]

00:54:18   have incredibly chaotic drawings by my [TS]

00:54:20   daughter that's all [TS]

00:54:22   knock over my over my desk I just keep I [TS]

00:54:25   stare at them and hope you'll get better [TS]

00:54:27   someday I wanna be better that whole [TS]

00:54:29   business about you know about kids being [TS]

00:54:32   natural artists and and the art the [TS]

00:54:35   artistic impulses beat out of them by [TS]

00:54:37   our by our patreon patriarchal society [TS]

00:54:41   left the kids are terrible artist [TS]

00:54:43   yes and making art is hard work and and [TS]

00:54:47   if you're listening to this and you have [TS]

00:54:48   a kid who um i would describe would [TS]

00:54:51   discourage them not an obvious way not a [TS]

00:54:53   mean way but in a very subtle way [TS]

00:54:55   yeah i would just go don't discourage [TS]

00:54:57   them because you want better for them [TS]

00:54:59   than the life of an artist now [TS]

00:55:00   discourage them so that they get out of [TS]

00:55:02   the way of actual artists who are [TS]

00:55:04   working hard [TS]

00:55:05   you're saying it's a single signal noise [TS]

00:55:06   problem i think it is [TS]

00:55:08   yeah I this there's a noise I make a lot [TS]

00:55:10   of my daughter seems like a little you [TS]

00:55:14   know it's funny our kid goes to a pretty [TS]

00:55:17   cool [TS]

00:55:17   that's very cool preschool little co-op [TS]

00:55:19   we with you and she is run by Jewish [TS]

00:55:23   people know it's not and it's also not [TS]

00:55:25   run by hippies and it's not run by [TS]

00:55:27   cultus which is different from almost [TS]

00:55:29   every preschool up into like most of the [TS]

00:55:31   preschools they want you like read a [TS]

00:55:32   book was very interesting you know when [TS]

00:55:34   the children would have been the same [TS]

00:55:35   swing we let them talk about it and then [TS]

00:55:37   we write their names on a list and now [TS]

00:55:39   shut up [TS]

00:55:40   this place is very sensible but you know [TS]

00:55:42   it's funny when you guys in there my [TS]

00:55:43   work day and I saw this thing on the [TS]

00:55:46   wall and like so many great things in my [TS]

00:55:48   life first I was angry and then I [TS]

00:55:50   thought it was awesome and it was this [TS]

00:55:51   big thing and admittedly a little hippie [TS]

00:55:54   and it's like something how to talk to [TS]

00:55:55   your kids about their thing they're [TS]

00:55:56   drawing their art or whatever and at [TS]

00:55:59   first i was like all like because it was [TS]

00:56:00   so antithetical to how I've been doing [TS]

00:56:02   cuz i'm i'm totally that oh my god [TS]

00:56:04   that's awesome that's great oh my gosh [TS]

00:56:05   is that looks just as a face it looks [TS]

00:56:07   like is that Mommy or whatever it is I [TS]

00:56:10   used to do that and no no no we're still [TS]

00:56:14   she go [TS]

00:56:15   yeah oh right so here's the thing and I [TS]

00:56:18   don't know if you we will find this [TS]

00:56:20   useful with your youngster but I I what [TS]

00:56:23   it said was instead but don't take a [TS]

00:56:26   minute first of all take a minute and [TS]

00:56:28   look at it and and do not jump right [TS]

00:56:31   into making a remark about what it [TS]

00:56:35   cortical is let alone making a value [TS]

00:56:38   judgment but let you say that wow that's [TS]

00:56:41   really cool you made a bunch of red [TS]

00:56:42   lines there and they're not encourage [TS]

00:56:43   them to talk at first I thought that was [TS]

00:56:45   really happy and dumb but I've decided [TS]

00:56:47   that that's actually a good idea because [TS]

00:56:49   because sometimes kids just scribbling [TS]

00:56:52   you know [TS]

00:56:53   no it's a good so I think it's an [TS]

00:56:54   incredible idea i mean III actually try [TS]

00:56:57   really hard and this is a weird thing to [TS]

00:56:59   say but I try really hard not to say [TS]

00:57:02   good good hair about that i'm terry i do [TS]

00:57:07   that all the time because you know what [TS]

00:57:11   to do she needed you know I mean I [TS]

00:57:13   understand there's a thousand people [TS]

00:57:15   right now [TS]

00:57:16   composing angry emails to you saying you [TS]

00:57:19   need to say good to your kid but but i [TS]

00:57:21   think the i think actually John the [TS]

00:57:23   conventional wisdom is increasingly to [TS]

00:57:25   not do that [TS]

00:57:26   yeah and you know but you can go too far [TS]

00:57:28   as I reckon you're just encourage the [TS]

00:57:30   effort obviously encourage the effort [TS]

00:57:32   yeah and there's so many ways that that [TS]

00:57:34   my kid knows that I approve of her that [TS]

00:57:39   you know to have to do and it feels like [TS]

00:57:41   it's just a reflexive action like good [TS]

00:57:45   good god you don't worry about I worry [TS]

00:57:50   about raising a kid that just worries [TS]

00:57:53   about trying to please me as much as I [TS]

00:57:55   am incredibly self-involved I worry that [TS]

00:57:57   when i do that it's like me so much [TS]

00:57:59   going to crush her artistic ambitions [TS]

00:58:00   like she's gonna do whatever she does [TS]

00:58:01   but I do worry about her thinking the [TS]

00:58:04   only yardstick for that is like whether [TS]

00:58:06   other people thought was good right [TS]

00:58:07   right well yeah exactly i think i think [TS]

00:58:11   one of the things that I that I [TS]

00:58:14   appreciate most about my parents and [TS]

00:58:16   particularly my mother was that when [TS]

00:58:18   when i was working on something like art [TS]

00:58:22   something artistically you know she [TS]

00:58:25   would back out of the room and close the [TS]

00:58:27   door [TS]

00:58:28   um there wasn't she didn't sit there and [TS]

00:58:33   say what are you doing now [TS]

00:58:34   well what is that is that a tree I mean [TS]

00:58:36   she didn't do any of that and when I was [TS]

00:58:38   done she put it up on the refrigerator [TS]

00:58:40   but it but they're there wasn't a she [TS]

00:58:45   she recognized that that was not [TS]

00:58:47   necessarily another opportunity for for [TS]

00:58:50   parent-child interaction becomes [TS]

00:58:52   actually it was your thing that was what [TS]

00:58:54   i was doing and I was fine you know like [TS]

00:58:56   like let it ride [TS]

00:58:59   this is a new segment I call bizarro [TS]

00:59:01   Marcia Roderick theater are you ready [TS]

00:59:03   yeah jon jon is that about a Space [TS]

00:59:09   Shuttle crash Oh said about the [TS]

00:59:11   challenger or the I get mixed up is it [TS]

00:59:14   does the Challenger right what the [TS]

00:59:18   commander thinks aloud is it's more i [TS]

00:59:21   actually had to google this because I [TS]

00:59:22   wasn't even sure which is which but your [TS]

00:59:24   little younger than me [TS]

00:59:24   that was what about the without about [TS]

00:59:26   the Columbia the Challenger would you [TS]

00:59:28   say um the you can see if you're [TS]

00:59:32   comfortable talking about it i'm talking [TS]

00:59:35   about you see now first of all you're [TS]

00:59:37   listening to John Roderick who I will [TS]

00:59:39   never admit is my favorite song right [TS]

00:59:41   owners today because he's a dick [TS]

00:59:44   yeah you don't want to tell me that [TS]

00:59:45   nobody like can I come stay with you [TS]

00:59:48   examine cisco for free for several weeks [TS]

00:59:51   Maryland oh my god is that so hard and I [TS]

00:59:54   would love it if your mom would take [TS]

00:59:56   care of our stupid daughter and you just [TS]

00:59:57   come and hang out with me again i miss [TS]

00:59:59   it no one's [TS]

00:59:59   it no one's [TS]

01:00:00   the moment that's what we should do we [TS]

01:00:01   should put both of our daughters in a [TS]

01:00:02   little box is it in my mom's living room [TS]

01:00:05   not a me knocks on iceboxx miss my mom [TS]

01:00:08   has nice boxes and mom so practical i [TS]

01:00:11   love your mom she said she says straight [TS]

01:00:13   and even talked about before when she [TS]

01:00:15   talks about how much he loves your kid [TS]

01:00:16   she's very very you know buried we have [TS]

01:00:19   a visit when i accidentally called her [TS]

01:00:20   number instead of yours and she was so [TS]

01:00:22   she seems really happy but she's also [TS]

01:00:23   really like yep she's still her she's [TS]

01:00:25   still very practical [TS]

01:00:26   mmm yeah she has a room in the basement [TS]

01:00:29   for where she keeps the good boxes like [TS]

01:00:32   friends kids in trouble with my wife for [TS]

01:00:35   keeping what I call quote-unquote good [TS]

01:00:36   boxes you brought out that's a good box [TS]

01:00:39   you doing that's a perfectly good bog it [TS]

01:00:43   down would we be going to personally [TS]

01:00:45   talk a little bit about these things [TS]

01:00:48   I don't know so it is that the song was [TS]

01:00:50   about the coladas space shuttle Columbia [TS]

01:00:53   which is one of two space shuttles that [TS]

01:00:55   crashed the other one being the [TS]

01:00:57   Challenger but the columbia is the one [TS]

01:00:59   that disintegrated on re-entry [TS]

01:01:02   whereas the Challenger is the one that [TS]

01:01:04   disintegrated shortly after launch right [TS]

01:01:07   and uh so yeah I've had very very [TS]

01:01:15   interesting your relationship to this [TS]

01:01:16   song just recently I mean I it was one [TS]

01:01:19   of those songs you get lucky sometimes [TS]

01:01:21   that you write a song that has the has [TS]

01:01:24   the capacity to make you cry multiple [TS]

01:01:26   times as you're performing it you know [TS]

01:01:29   and and I know that the all songwriters [TS]

01:01:32   coming there's one or two songs in their [TS]

01:01:34   repertoire that if they really dig into [TS]

01:01:36   it while they're performing it they can [TS]

01:01:38   they can get it can make them very [TS]

01:01:40   emotional like it does the crowd but it [TS]

01:01:43   is for people who have not been with you [TS]

01:01:45   since the very beginning people i [TS]

01:01:47   encounter it's it's a lot of people's [TS]

01:01:50   favorite long winter Sun yeah and and i [TS]

01:01:53   understand that I it's a it's somewhat [TS]

01:01:57   atypical of a long winter song and that [TS]

01:02:00   it doesn't have any guitars on it and [TS]

01:02:01   it's a have literally three quarts [TS]

01:02:03   inside the same looks like a 10 point [TS]

01:02:05   forward 15 for the whole step 46 minutes [TS]

01:02:08   long but uh and and it's a typical of a [TS]

01:02:13   long winter [TS]

01:02:13   song in that it's about a real event [TS]

01:02:16   that's that was on the news [TS]

01:02:18   what about a specific like a specific [TS]

01:02:21   real-world thing it seems that's not [TS]

01:02:23   your wheelhouse not normally but this [TS]

01:02:28   was this was a song I you know that the [TS]

01:02:30   normally what I do is I i use metaphor [TS]

01:02:33   to take us take small personal events [TS]

01:02:38   and turn them into bigger things that we [TS]

01:02:41   can use to talk about talk about real [TS]

01:02:44   feelings you know and and that's what [TS]

01:02:48   metaphor is so good at you can you can [TS]

01:02:50   say well that that that girl stepped on [TS]

01:02:52   my toe and if I wrote a song was like [TS]

01:02:54   that girl stepped on my toe [TS]

01:02:56   it would it would be a jack black song [TS]

01:02:59   first of all but it would be not a very [TS]

01:03:01   interesting song for the long haul but [TS]

01:03:04   so you see utilize metaphor and you turn [TS]

01:03:08   your you know you turn the girl into the [TS]

01:03:12   Hungarians and you turn your toe into [TS]

01:03:15   the the great you know the but not and [TS]

01:03:19   the great steppes of Central Europe and [TS]

01:03:22   all of a sudden you're writing a song [TS]

01:03:23   that sounds very big and and it's coming [TS]

01:03:26   from a place that's very small the [TS]

01:03:28   Columbia was an event that was actual [TS]

01:03:33   and big and you couldn't metaphor eyes [TS]

01:03:36   it you know though there was nothing you [TS]

01:03:39   could you couldn't you couldn't use a [TS]

01:03:42   metaphor because any metaphor you would [TS]

01:03:43   use would be smaller than the actual [TS]

01:03:45   thing and as I was writing a song i [TS]

01:03:48   realized that you could that the [TS]

01:03:50   Columbia was an actual event that you [TS]

01:03:54   could you could both talk about it in [TS]

01:03:59   really small discreet discreet little [TS]

01:04:01   scenes and it also it functioned as a [TS]

01:04:06   kind of reverse metaphor like you know [TS]

01:04:11   what happened to them on that spaceship [TS]

01:04:13   and how that special crash affected us [TS]

01:04:15   all it it in little ways was like a [TS]

01:04:21   relationship breaking up or like you [TS]

01:04:24   know like one person's life kinda [TS]

01:04:26   seen from beginning to end so it was it [TS]

01:04:30   was it was sort of a reverse of what [TS]

01:04:34   what normal songwriting would look like [TS]

01:04:36   yeah and the absolutely and that chorus [TS]

01:04:39   is is so memorable [TS]

01:04:41   whatever those letters five or six words [TS]

01:04:42   of the chorus but what else is there is [TS]

01:04:44   a one-line something like there's no [TS]

01:04:47   words in the corner just goes yeah what [TS]

01:04:50   do you want me also when I thought you [TS]

01:04:51   called Dakota like we have the coda [TS]

01:04:53   right I'm sorry and music guy like you [TS]

01:04:57   like you know anything about you know [TS]

01:04:59   anything about music [TS]

01:05:00   um but the part the part that always [TS]

01:05:02   gets me is the something like can you [TS]

01:05:05   feel that we're almost home [TS]

01:05:06   something like that which is like it's [TS]

01:05:08   just so like this whatever i'm going on [TS]

01:05:10   chris farley better if it works on a lot [TS]

01:05:12   of levels and also just that whole idea [TS]

01:05:14   of this time when when America was so [TS]

01:05:16   full of hope because of that possibility [TS]

01:05:19   of actually going from a john kennedy [TS]

01:05:21   speech to being on the moon in such a [TS]

01:05:23   unbelievably small amount of time and [TS]

01:05:25   all the like weird things on this [TS]

01:05:27   timeline that they were able to hit to [TS]

01:05:28   make that happen and then bring people [TS]

01:05:30   back alive from space [TS]

01:05:31   it's online i don't want to over analyze [TS]

01:05:33   but it works on so many levels as a as a [TS]

01:05:36   tragedy about so many things and you [TS]

01:05:38   know not least of which is like gosh you [TS]

01:05:40   can go and do this most amazing thing in [TS]

01:05:42   the world but like you're still you can [TS]

01:05:44   be so close and then it just was part [TS]

01:05:47   yeah well I because I and i think that's [TS]

01:05:49   it it it's rooted in the argument that [TS]

01:05:51   people use to justify space travel which [TS]

01:05:54   is that human beings are natural [TS]

01:05:57   explorers and if we are exploring and [TS]

01:05:59   and reaching out into into whatever the [TS]

01:06:02   next realm is then we're not fulfilling [TS]

01:06:04   our our destiny and and the reverse of [TS]

01:06:08   that is that it is encoded in us all to [TS]

01:06:12   to recognize and empathize with somebody [TS]

01:06:16   who has left the village and is and has [TS]

01:06:21   been out you know to the oregon coast or [TS]

01:06:25   has been has walked two across Africa or [TS]

01:06:30   you know have fat found Stanley in the [TS]

01:06:33   jungle or whatever we can we can relate [TS]

01:06:35   to that person and the idea that that [TS]

01:06:37   person would be stepping off [TS]

01:06:40   the train in their hometown and fall and [TS]

01:06:45   get run over by the train while their [TS]

01:06:47   wife and kids were standing there after [TS]

01:06:49   having been gone after having you know [TS]

01:06:52   who traveled with Lewis and Clark is is [TS]

01:06:56   a kind of tragedy that certainly has [TS]

01:06:58   happened a million times in in human [TS]

01:07:01   history and it's a it's something we all [TS]

01:07:04   feel very personally about you know so [TS]

01:07:06   so you would think that writing a song [TS]

01:07:09   about astronauts would be hard for [TS]

01:07:10   people to to identify with but in fact [TS]

01:07:15   what they were doing was was incredibly [TS]

01:07:19   human and and in a little in a [TS]

01:07:22   small-scale way applies to each of us at [TS]

01:07:24   week every time we leave the house and [TS]

01:07:26   go to work and make it home and that's [TS]

01:07:27   what art is its metaphor it sound what's [TS]

01:07:30   the word my teachers to use its [TS]

01:07:32   metaphysical distance I guess somebody [TS]

01:07:34   wrote a song that was like I'm so sad [TS]

01:07:36   that the shuttle crashed like that would [TS]

01:07:38   not only have so much longevity but the [TS]

01:07:40   fact that you have struck down a little [TS]

01:07:42   bit but it's funny because it's like so [TS]

01:07:43   many of your songs i don't think you've [TS]

01:07:47   had to educate me on what they're about [TS]

01:07:48   and I've listened to them a lot [TS]

01:07:50   sometimes just listening to them a [TS]

01:07:51   couple times but it's always really [TS]

01:07:54   interesting to me because you're and I [TS]

01:07:55   think one of the reasons you come across [TS]

01:07:56   some interesting a lot of people is that [TS]

01:07:58   you are you do fake it pretty well as a [TS]

01:08:00   polymath and but you are like somebody [TS]

01:08:03   who is that incredible chemistry c can i [TS]

01:08:06   get that looked at [TS]

01:08:07   I you also are clearly a match the [TS]

01:08:11   student of history but you seem like [TS]

01:08:13   you're always kind of you you're very [TS]

01:08:14   knowledgeable about history that wasn't [TS]

01:08:17   your major that was like your we know in [TS]

01:08:20   your English literature was comparative [TS]

01:08:22   history of ideas all that is those that [TS]

01:08:25   free program meetup right yeah so it has [TS]

01:08:27   the word history in it but it it but [TS]

01:08:29   history is is just a component of it [TS]

01:08:31   yeah but I'm an amateur historian sure [TS]

01:08:34   yeah and anna and i enjoyed I and I feel [TS]

01:08:38   like history is and isn't it a shame now [TS]

01:08:43   how I a slight side route it's just such [TS]

01:08:46   a shame that I feel really jipped about [TS]

01:08:48   how I learn history and I guess this is [TS]

01:08:51   kind of a cliché or whatever but it's [TS]

01:08:52   there's a couple topics now that I'm [TS]

01:08:54   really super interested in that I'm [TS]

01:08:57   embarrassed how poorly I absorbed it and [TS]

01:09:00   I have to at least partly blame it on [TS]

01:09:01   the way that it was taught and into [TS]

01:09:03   example to jump to mind are mathematics [TS]

01:09:06   and history [TS]

01:09:07   yeah which I think at least in the way [TS]

01:09:09   that I learned it I mean I'm not the [TS]

01:09:11   sharpest knife in the drawer but like in [TS]

01:09:12   both cases it's amazing that you can [TS]

01:09:14   take something as interesting as [TS]

01:09:16   European history and turn it into things [TS]

01:09:18   like you know memorizing what date the [TS]

01:09:22   treaty of versailles was without [TS]

01:09:23   understanding like what that really [TS]

01:09:25   meant truly any history what you know [TS]

01:09:27   what the treaty of versailles meant [TS]

01:09:28   looking backwards and especially looking [TS]

01:09:30   forward there's not many more [TS]

01:09:32   interesting topics the right right [TS]

01:09:34   absolutely retrospect I just remember [TS]

01:09:36   like what I think they would they signed [TS]

01:09:38   on train or something like I don't [TS]

01:09:39   remember I don't know didn't pick up the [TS]

01:09:41   end of the Civil War II have one Hitler [TS]

01:09:44   had no actually they did sign on a train [TS]

01:09:46   car and then Hitler used that same train [TS]

01:09:49   bar 21 France capitulated to him and I [TS]

01:09:53   can skate he really was he talking about [TS]

01:09:55   a master of metaphor [TS]

01:09:57   mhm oh yeah now we're talking about [TS]

01:09:58   Hitler and I'm gonna get any letters in [TS]

01:10:00   Israel happens every time I i think that [TS]

01:10:05   i think that's true of everybody you [TS]

01:10:08   know I I didn't learn history in high [TS]

01:10:10   school and and high school actually [TS]

01:10:12   deprived me of what had up to then been [TS]

01:10:16   a lifetime love mathematics you know I [TS]

01:10:19   started ninth-grade thinking that [TS]

01:10:21   thinking and having been kind of [TS]

01:10:23   reinforced in the belief that i was a [TS]

01:10:24   math whiz and by the end of tenth grade [TS]

01:10:28   I I wanted absolutely nothing to do with [TS]

01:10:31   math and and history and civics and I [TS]

01:10:36   mean really what's more interesting than [TS]

01:10:38   physics physics taught by by a great [TS]

01:10:41   teacher is it should this whole reason [TS]

01:10:45   for school and physics thought by a [TS]

01:10:47   terrible teacher is limping waterboarded [TS]

01:10:50   so I mean you know we could talk all for [TS]

01:10:54   the rest of our lives about education [TS]

01:10:57   and how we were wronged by the [TS]

01:10:59   by the fifties textbooks that we're [TS]

01:11:02   still being used in the seventies when [TS]

01:11:03   we were going to elementary school and I [TS]

01:11:06   don't think it's any better now I [TS]

01:11:07   honestly don't [TS]

01:11:08   haha i kinda doubt it i mean in stock [TS]

01:11:11   but you know it i've got this is true [TS]

01:11:13   but I've heard it said that the only [TS]

01:11:15   reason anybody really really dies is [TS]

01:11:17   because of a lack of oxygen like every [TS]

01:11:19   way that you whether you got stay out of [TS]

01:11:22   waterboarding no no could be but every [TS]

01:11:24   way that you that is the cause of your [TS]

01:11:27   death it's the real reason that you [TS]

01:11:29   eventually die is because of a lack of [TS]

01:11:31   oxygen that's ultimately the thing that [TS]

01:11:33   really eventually kills you supposedly [TS]

01:11:35   but that's the you know the actual cause [TS]

01:11:37   of death of every investor but and in [TS]

01:11:39   the same way i've heard that really yeah [TS]

01:11:41   I've heard some people say that the the [TS]

01:11:44   everything is physics that when you [TS]

01:11:46   really get down to it almost everything [TS]

01:11:48   goes on is some kind of an abstraction [TS]

01:11:50   of physics which i think is a really [TS]

01:11:51   interesting idea and that was obviously [TS]

01:11:53   physics itself combines you know [TS]

01:11:54   different disciplines but I i see now [TS]

01:11:57   mean I'm like the armchair engineer i [TS]

01:11:59   don't know a thing about physics [TS]

01:12:01   I never have physics and geometry was a [TS]

01:12:02   senior i mean you could meet a more [TS]

01:12:04   lamentable math idiot than me but now [TS]

01:12:07   like whatever it says stuff like [TS]

01:12:08   fractals and you know set theory and all [TS]

01:12:11   this stuff is I have no idea what any of [TS]

01:12:13   it means but I can tell if I hatch the [TS]

01:12:15   basic but basic skills that like I would [TS]

01:12:19   get a lot of that [TS]

01:12:20   that bums me out I think you can take [TS]

01:12:22   classes online if you like you like [TS]

01:12:24   online and holding a Phoenix University [TS]

01:12:26   type situation well actually I think [TS]

01:12:28   there are classes by eminent Yale [TS]

01:12:31   professors that have been uploaded to [TS]

01:12:34   the interweb and you can just watch them [TS]

01:12:36   and you that iTunes University is [TS]

01:12:38   actually pretty great there's there's a [TS]

01:12:40   bunch of good stuff in there free stuff [TS]

01:12:42   let's get stuff from Stanford and things [TS]

01:12:44   like that they i took a physics class in [TS]

01:12:46   college that was taught by one of that [TS]

01:12:48   physicists from hanford which is the big [TS]

01:12:51   you know the big nuclear reservation [TS]

01:12:56   where they made the atom bomb here in [TS]

01:12:58   Washington State [TS]

01:12:59   Wow and this guy you know he was a real [TS]

01:13:02   he was a refinement type of character [TS]

01:13:07   you know this just brilliant [TS]

01:13:11   physicist who had who had been boots on [TS]

01:13:14   the ground hands up to his elbows in [TS]

01:13:17   practical physics for his whole career [TS]

01:13:20   and now was teaching at the University [TS]

01:13:24   just because he loved it and he would [TS]

01:13:28   run around that class and climb up on [TS]

01:13:30   tables and and it was one of the best [TS]

01:13:34   classes I ever took and it had instilled [TS]

01:13:35   in me a lifelong love of physics which [TS]

01:13:38   in high school I got an F in physics [TS]

01:13:40   because my high school physics teacher [TS]

01:13:42   was some ding dong that that didn't know [TS]

01:13:46   any physics herself she was just you [TS]

01:13:47   know she would I think read the book on [TS]

01:13:49   her way to school in the morning and I'm [TS]

01:13:51   like she needed the teachers edition [TS]

01:13:53   yeah well she's teaching out of it you [TS]

01:13:56   know and and doing these kind of dumb [TS]

01:13:58   these dumb it like okay here's a slinky [TS]

01:14:02   now we're going to hit one into the [TS]

01:14:03   slinky and you're gonna see the wave and [TS]

01:14:05   it's like yeah I get it [TS]

01:14:07   I've used a slinky let's get on with it [TS]

01:14:10   no but but I took a college physics [TS]

01:14:13   class that was the greatest thing I ever [TS]

01:14:14   did I was terrified going and I was like [TS]

01:14:15   this is gonna be awful and this guy [TS]

01:14:18   walks in and and from the first second [TS]

01:14:21   heat picked up a piece of chalk I was [TS]

01:14:24   like oh it matters who your teacher haha [TS]

01:14:29   right so that brings us to the topic of [TS]

01:14:34   homeschooling well well well well which [TS]

01:14:37   i have to sue want to hide i have to [TS]

01:14:40   assume you're a major proponent of and I [TS]

01:14:44   am too and I suggest we start us a [TS]

01:14:45   charter school miller i would love to be [TS]

01:14:48   taught at a charter school i'm ready i'm [TS]

01:14:50   ready to learn [TS]

01:14:51   would you teach and a charter school I [TS]

01:14:54   don't know what I would teach at a [TS]

01:14:55   charter school I mean except no [TS]

01:14:58   misquoting misquoting literature [TS]

01:15:02   what about productivity as i'll be a [TS]

01:15:06   hell of a charter you know I 2222 [TS]

01:15:10   somewhat related things first i'll never [TS]

01:15:11   tell you that my arm [TS]

01:15:13   you know which one was it now I'm [TS]

01:15:14   getting confused my on my chemistry [TS]

01:15:15   teacher in high school every day she was [TS]

01:15:16   a finalist for the Challenger [TS]

01:15:18   oh really yeah yeah I mean she's on the [TS]

01:15:21   news that night because this is a year [TS]

01:15:23   after I graduated I was living at my [TS]

01:15:25   mom's house just eating a half mile away [TS]

01:15:26   and like she was out on the lawn at the [TS]

01:15:30   school with everybody else watching this [TS]

01:15:33   because you know she was a big deal is a [TS]

01:15:35   big deal she was a finalist for this and [TS]

01:15:37   you know very very uh [TS]

01:15:40   taciturn woman very you know quiet kept [TS]

01:15:44   to herself sort of person and she yes [TS]

01:15:46   she was there and just watched it [TS]

01:15:48   imagine that imagine like talk about the [TS]

01:15:50   ultimate like that that could have been [TS]

01:15:52   me kind of thing [TS]

01:15:53   well other one is a metal just before [TS]

01:15:56   but this i don't know this seems to say [TS]

01:15:59   something about something when I was in [TS]

01:16:00   college you know what does screen [TS]

01:16:02   liberal arts school and did mostly like [TS]

01:16:05   you know literature short story poems [TS]

01:16:07   novels whatever all that kind of [TS]

01:16:08   nonsense reread the ambassador's or [TS]

01:16:10   whatever but i'm on a whim i took a with [TS]

01:16:13   these call physics for poets called [TS]

01:16:14   nature of modern physics was talking a [TS]

01:16:16   physics teacher but basically you read [TS]

01:16:17   off Baker you read you know Einstein [TS]

01:16:19   Yuri keep i read Gary Zhukov from the [TS]

01:16:22   dancing Willie masters and all that [TS]

01:16:23   nonsense but but the thing that's [TS]

01:16:25   interesting about this is is I've said [TS]

01:16:27   this in other places before but there's [TS]

01:16:29   something to this i think the teacher [TS]

01:16:30   was from I think hungry is really seem [TS]

01:16:34   like a weird guy to me and you get good [TS]

01:16:36   teacher but you know what's funny is my [TS]

01:16:38   second or third promised me my second [TS]

01:16:41   you're stuck in here and you know like a [TS]

01:16:43   lot of people I really thought I was a [TS]

01:16:46   great writer you know I was the features [TS]

01:16:49   editor in high school so obviously i [TS]

01:16:51   must universally yeah you don't get a [TS]

01:16:53   position like that without being an [TS]

01:16:54   outstanding writer for top-shelf yes [TS]

01:16:57   funny though I would when I I turned in [TS]

01:16:59   my first paper and it was the most well [TS]

01:17:04   i gotta say my I had one vonnegut paper [TS]

01:17:06   my first year where Mac Miller said down [TS]

01:17:10   there forget he said that this part [TS]

01:17:11   isn't this Park curiously like whipping [TS]

01:17:14   a dead mule with misplaced rhetoric and [TS]

01:17:17   will always stick with me but this [TS]

01:17:19   physics teacher he toured a party tour [TS]

01:17:20   my paper isn't a scene from back to [TS]

01:17:23   school starting Roger Rodney Dangerfield [TS]

01:17:25   Kirby hires kurt vonnegut yes exactly i [TS]

01:17:29   have told you that story wasn't gonna [TS]

01:17:30   get story but Peter Peter Kay sacks i [TS]

01:17:34   think his name was torn apart be torn [TS]

01:17:36   apart and he said you know there's all [TS]

01:17:38   kinds of problems with this there's no [TS]

01:17:40   grammatical problems there's the [TS]

01:17:41   structure most of those things like the [TS]

01:17:43   structure and the actual you know [TS]

01:17:44   building a case the right the the [TS]

01:17:47   writing he said it wasn't good and he [TS]

01:17:50   suggested of all things he suggested I [TS]

01:17:53   go to this staff member who was the [TS]

01:17:58   writing instructor like she wasn't it [TS]

01:18:01   was so ridiculous that she wasn't [TS]

01:18:03   treated more seriously but you gotta go [TS]

01:18:05   see general wheeler you're gonna go see [TS]

01:18:06   her and you're gonna you should go and [TS]

01:18:08   get some help with your writing and I [TS]

01:18:12   was I was speechless I was like you got [TS]

01:18:14   don't you know like who i am like I'm [TS]

01:18:16   but you know what's funny i john is only [TS]

01:18:18   the service of saying I land and yeah [TS]

01:18:20   ended up taking that as a class i got a [TS]

01:18:21   credit you know for taking out of class [TS]

01:18:23   and sheep she just really with me into [TS]

01:18:25   shape [TS]

01:18:26   did make a great rider but maybe less [TS]

01:18:28   crappy writer but it's interesting to me [TS]

01:18:29   that I don't know if it was I think that [TS]

01:18:32   was probably the severus lashing i ever [TS]

01:18:35   got from my writing in college and it [TS]

01:18:37   came from a physics teacher maybe other [TS]

01:18:40   ones are just being too nice for [TS]

01:18:41   something but like it wasn't my stuff [TS]

01:18:43   about Raymond Carver that wasn't my [TS]

01:18:44   stuff about Robert Lowell it was my [TS]

01:18:46   stuff about you know I quantum theory [TS]

01:18:50   right and I don't know is that seems [TS]

01:18:52   really struggling i think there was [TS]

01:18:53   actually a great quote wanna get it [TS]

01:18:56   somewhere I'd said that if you wanna [TS]

01:18:57   find the best riders at Cornell [TS]

01:18:58   University don't go to the English [TS]

01:18:59   department you know right science [TS]

01:19:02   department that's not that I mean like [TS]

01:19:05   that then that helped me so much and I [TS]

01:19:06   you know I still she made me read [TS]

01:19:08   structure of white which I hadn't read [TS]

01:19:11   since high school but she also made me [TS]

01:19:12   read this great book called Williams [TS]

01:19:13   answers wins or book called on writing [TS]

01:19:15   well yeah I have it right here in [TS]

01:19:18   economy and I is it was just so [TS]

01:19:21   interesting because of all the [TS]

01:19:22   educational stuff like all the stuff i [TS]

01:19:23   thought it was gonna learn in college [TS]

01:19:24   classes I took was weird how all this [TS]

01:19:27   stuff snuck in in places and I never [TS]

01:19:29   expected I took the 20th century [TS]

01:19:30   painting on a lark and end up being my [TS]

01:19:32   favorite thing one of the most memorable [TS]

01:19:33   to me you know i don't know how much I [TS]

01:19:35   remember of moby-dick [TS]

01:19:37   didn't think it was that interesting but [TS]

01:19:39   what every single class in twenty [TS]

01:19:41   century painting I was just rapt [TS]

01:19:42   attention the whole time [TS]

01:19:43   well I don't understand why why our [TS]

01:19:46   entire education from kindergarten to [TS]

01:19:48   graduate school isn't treated that same [TS]

01:19:50   way because that's absolutely true of [TS]

01:19:52   everything I learned that I carry with [TS]

01:19:54   me to this day [TS]

01:19:55   none of it was on somebody syllabus or [TS]

01:19:59   or was on the college prep course work [TS]

01:20:03   or whatever all of it was was found by [TS]

01:20:06   accident and all of it was I mean during [TS]

01:20:09   those classes where I was secretly [TS]

01:20:11   reading a book propped in but it within [TS]

01:20:15   the pages of the textbook that I was [TS]

01:20:16   holding up so the teacher thought i was [TS]

01:20:18   studying when you're actually looking at [TS]

01:20:20   magazines the the Mad Magazine i was [TS]

01:20:23   reading within the within my English [TS]

01:20:25   book is the stuff that that made me who [TS]

01:20:27   I am it's it's the it's the education I [TS]

01:20:30   ended up getting and you know my mom [TS]

01:20:34   again just to go back to my mom I was [TS]

01:20:36   telling telling this story last night to [TS]

01:20:38   somebody but uh when I was in 1976 I was [TS]

01:20:43   eight years old and I had a lot of [TS]

01:20:46   questions it was the vietnam war had [TS]

01:20:49   just ended and I was I was aware of that [TS]

01:20:52   and nixon had been impeached within the [TS]

01:20:55   a couple of years before and I was aware [TS]

01:20:57   of that people you know in 1976 God [TS]

01:20:59   people still talk about Nixon Ford was [TS]

01:21:03   the president but Carter was running for [TS]

01:21:06   president when I was aware of all these [TS]

01:21:08   things and i had a lot of questions [TS]

01:21:09   about them [TS]

01:21:10   my mom got me a subscription to Time [TS]

01:21:12   magazine when it was getting back when [TS]

01:21:16   Time magazine was a great a great weekly [TS]

01:21:17   news magazine I mean it was a middlebrow [TS]

01:21:19   magazine always but but it was it was [TS]

01:21:22   super well written and super [TS]

01:21:24   well-researched and Darren a [TS]

01:21:27   ten-year-old could get a lot out of it [TS]

01:21:29   perfect for an eight-year-old right and [TS]

01:21:31   and what one my mom got me the [TS]

01:21:33   subscription of this magazine what she [TS]

01:21:35   said was you don't have to read every [TS]

01:21:37   article if you start to read an article [TS]

01:21:38   and it doesn't interest you don't read [TS]

01:21:40   it move on to the next article just read [TS]

01:21:42   the articles that you that are [TS]

01:21:43   interesting to you and so [TS]

01:21:47   there's a lot you know the that first [TS]

01:21:48   year i got time magazine I didn't read [TS]

01:21:50   most of the stuff i just i would flip [TS]

01:21:53   through and look at the pictures and [TS]

01:21:55   read the captions and there was nobody [TS]

01:21:58   there reading it over my shoulder there [TS]

01:22:02   was nobody there trying to read it to me [TS]

01:22:03   there was nobody there trying to explain [TS]

01:22:05   it to me [TS]

01:22:05   I just SAT and looked at the pictures [TS]

01:22:07   and read the captions and then pretty [TS]

01:22:09   soon I started reading you know the the [TS]

01:22:12   feature articles that interested me and [TS]

01:22:14   and if I if there were cool pictures i [TS]

01:22:17   would start reading the article 22 put [TS]

01:22:19   them together by the time I was in sixth [TS]

01:22:22   grade I was reading time magazine every [TS]

01:22:24   week and I that had more of enough that [TS]

01:22:30   had that gave me more of an education [TS]

01:22:32   and it was almost entirely a process of [TS]

01:22:37   self-selection that uh that probably [TS]

01:22:44   from the outside looked like I was being [TS]

01:22:45   given no guidance and frankly in the [TS]

01:22:48   seventies there were things in Time [TS]

01:22:49   magazine that were too sophisticated for [TS]

01:22:51   me there were there were things that I [TS]

01:22:53   read and that shocked me because I was [TS]

01:22:57   being introduced to ideas that were [TS]

01:22:59   above my pay grade [TS]

01:23:01   you know that my mom had a subscription [TS]

01:23:03   and there was one I just want to say 76 [TS]

01:23:06   77 78 had an excerpt from that Howard [TS]

01:23:09   Hughes biography the tell-all biography [TS]

01:23:11   uh-huh that's where I learned he saved [TS]

01:23:13   his urine and it's still one of the most [TS]

01:23:14   enduring images in my mind [TS]

01:23:16   mmm III but you could graze right that [TS]

01:23:19   was the point is it was nobody in there [TS]

01:23:20   going to write a report on you know [TS]

01:23:22   Zimbabwe or something and you pull out [TS]

01:23:25   the world book encyclopedia and start [TS]

01:23:26   you know writing your five paragraph [TS]

01:23:28   essay that grazing I I mean it's funny [TS]

01:23:31   as much as we serve we surf the web all [TS]

01:23:32   day but how much do we decide to go [TS]

01:23:34   settle on this one thing for a while you [TS]

01:23:37   don't know what I mean well and again [TS]

01:23:39   Time magazine did not allow me to pursue [TS]

01:23:42   threads that interested me they [TS]

01:23:45   presented they presented a dozen threads [TS]

01:23:50   and I chose the ones that interested me [TS]

01:23:53   but I i also had to wade through all [TS]

01:23:56   these ones that didn't and surfing the [TS]

01:23:58   web is a very different process I mean [TS]

01:24:00   I I'll do it as i'm sure you do waste [TS]

01:24:04   four hours on wikipedia just looking [TS]

01:24:06   through clicking through clicking [TS]

01:24:08   through but always pursuing the thread [TS]

01:24:11   that is that is that but you know the [TS]

01:24:14   closest to the bullseye of my own [TS]

01:24:17   interests and never never or very seldom [TS]

01:24:22   do i find myself on a page where I'm [TS]

01:24:24   like uh that thing you get with [TS]

01:24:27   magazines when your dentist's office [TS]

01:24:28   where like there's nothing else here to [TS]

01:24:30   read so i'm going to read this thing [TS]

01:24:32   that I don't want to read and you read [TS]

01:24:34   in you and and you're into something and [TS]

01:24:37   now you now you know something you [TS]

01:24:38   wouldn't have known otherwise on the [TS]

01:24:40   internet I find it's mostly like and [TS]

01:24:44   then I then then I found out where he [TS]

01:24:46   went to college and then i looked at the [TS]

01:24:47   college and then i looked at the dorms [TS]

01:24:50   in the college and then i looked at the [TS]

01:24:51   admission process like why am I looking [TS]

01:24:54   at the admission process for Yale right [TS]

01:24:56   now like I'm following my own interests [TS]

01:25:01   but my interests have led me up a [TS]

01:25:04   smaller and smaller tributary and I'm [TS]

01:25:08   learning stuff now I'm I'm following my [TS]

01:25:11   own interest to something with its not [TS]

01:25:13   producing any food for me so she like a [TS]

01:25:17   broad but shallow broad but shallow [TS]

01:25:19   particularly when you're talking about [TS]

01:25:21   the education of someone from the age of [TS]

01:25:23   five to fifteen broad but shallow is [TS]

01:25:27   what they is what they need and that's [TS]

01:25:29   why that's why those history classes you [TS]

01:25:31   talk about are so useless that the like [TS]

01:25:35   learning the dates of the French [TS]

01:25:38   Revolution mean I've studied the French [TS]

01:25:40   Revolution up and down and I can't tell [TS]

01:25:43   you any of the goddamn dates 1789 that's [TS]

01:25:46   the only date you need to know you know [TS]

01:25:48   and and when i studied the french [TS]

01:25:50   revolution in high school and in college [TS]

01:25:52   I probably had to memorize 10 dates [TS]

01:25:55   around those events which is a do which [TS]

01:26:00   is a degree of specificity that that a [TS]

01:26:03   master's student in the French [TS]

01:26:05   Revolution probably wouldn't have that [TS]

01:26:06   ready [TS]

01:26:08   and what you lose with what you're [TS]

01:26:10   losing all that though is the story [TS]

01:26:11   behind the story how did the front where [TS]

01:26:13   the French Revolution come from where [TS]

01:26:15   did it go to who is the story and that's [TS]

01:26:17   the only story that matters and and [TS]

01:26:20   certainly until you have embarked on a [TS]

01:26:23   PhD program it's the only story anybody [TS]

01:26:25   should ever try and tell what is the [TS]

01:26:27   word of the American Revolution come [TS]

01:26:28   from and where does it lead to you know [TS]

01:26:31   where did what where did the nation of [TS]

01:26:35   Germany come from and where is it now [TS]

01:26:37   you know these are like topics that if [TS]

01:26:40   you are history teacher if you are [TS]

01:26:42   history student this should be when you [TS]

01:26:44   do you should be sitting indian-style on [TS]

01:26:45   the floor and talking about this stuff [TS]

01:26:48   like its storytelling and i don't know i [TS]

01:26:52   think i think the the six to eight hours [TS]

01:26:54   that kids spend in school of theirs is [TS]

01:26:56   four to six hours of keeping them off [TS]

01:26:59   the streets [TS]

01:27:00   oh it's like I mean they get to such a [TS]

01:27:02   cliché but it's true they're learning [TS]

01:27:03   how to stand in line [TS]

01:27:04   it's it's really it's something like a [TS]

01:27:06   socialization institute in a lot of ways [TS]

01:27:08   and I mean and that if I had a charter [TS]

01:27:10   school that's what it would be too but [TS]

01:27:12   you'd be getting socialized in a way [TS]

01:27:14   different way with ac/dc you'd be [TS]

01:27:17   getting socialized to respect and fear [TS]

01:27:20   John Roderick first and foremost sure [TS]

01:27:22   and I think more people need to learn [TS]

01:27:23   that a younger young age [TS]

01:27:26   we're gonna learn eventually and they [TS]

01:27:27   can save themselves a lot of frustration [TS]

01:27:30   a lot of hurt but going up against the [TS]

01:27:32   big man let's be honest or 451 some [TS]

01:27:34   51-percent of the audience knowing about [TS]

01:27:37   the sexual chemistry even in a very [TS]

01:27:38   young age is going to help guide their [TS]

01:27:40   decision-making on two levels [TS]

01:27:42   that's right you know I get a lot of [TS]

01:27:44   light I get a lot of flack for being [TS]

01:27:46   dick about the morass you wouldn't [TS]

01:27:49   believe it's roderick I mean like I get [TS]

01:27:51   really frustrated with the whole like [TS]

01:27:53   I've gotta follow the headlines I gotta [TS]

01:27:54   follow the news I gotta go [TS]

01:27:56   just suck up all this ephemeral [TS]

01:27:58   information that's been packaged in this [TS]

01:28:00   these little morsels but you know what's [TS]

01:28:03   funny is like when I have this argument [TS]

01:28:05   people i eventually end up falling back [TS]

01:28:07   on [TS]

01:28:08   it's not a strategy fall every week [TS]

01:28:09   sometimes description but I think you [TS]

01:28:12   could learn more from picking up the [TS]

01:28:14   economist and reading there whatever 225 [TS]

01:28:17   platform feeling about Formula three [TS]

01:28:19   four five pages like the week [TS]

01:28:21   in review in integration that is a that [TS]

01:28:23   is one of the best things in all [TS]

01:28:25   periodicals the that's that first five [TS]

01:28:28   pages of The Economist man it's a nice i [TS]

01:28:30   think it's a nice productive but it's [TS]

01:28:33   kind of a middle ground and what we're [TS]

01:28:34   talking about here which is that you are [TS]

01:28:37   I mean let's be honest you pick up a [TS]

01:28:39   paper any paper there are times you try [TS]

01:28:41   to look at the new york times after the [TS]

01:28:42   twentieth of the month whatever you look [TS]

01:28:44   at that and there's just so much stuff [TS]

01:28:45   that's been you know shoot up for the [TS]

01:28:48   news pipe right and but if you pick up [TS]

01:28:51   that that economist thing it's going to [TS]

01:28:53   give you the high level on there and a [TS]

01:28:55   lot of ways but it's it's gonna be about [TS]

01:28:56   countries you don't know about it's [TS]

01:28:58   going to be about topics he don't [TS]

01:28:59   understand and I don't mean to sound [TS]

01:29:02   like you know eat your beets or anything [TS]

01:29:04   like that but if you if you really if it [TS]

01:29:06   is that important to you to keep [TS]

01:29:08   up-to-date and your version of that is [TS]

01:29:10   watching the crawl on CNN [TS]

01:29:12   we're good for damn sure take 20 minutes [TS]

01:29:14   and read that every week and now you're [TS]

01:29:16   going to be like a grown-up you're gonna [TS]

01:29:17   be legitimately up-to-date on what's [TS]

01:29:19   happening in the world frankly I don't I [TS]

01:29:21   I dont still care about it but like I [TS]

01:29:25   don't it doesn't have an impact on me in [TS]

01:29:28   an actionable way like it does a lot of [TS]

01:29:29   people pretend it does you know just [TS]

01:29:32   following like you know celebrity deaths [TS]

01:29:33   and who's mad about politics this week [TS]

01:29:35   if you really did that really does [TS]

01:29:37   matter to you then like why would you [TS]

01:29:38   like to take the time to do that in a [TS]

01:29:39   high-quality whey you know and so is my [TS]

01:29:41   google news or something which is just a [TS]

01:29:43   morass you have to add an extra 15 [TS]

01:29:46   minutes to it [TS]

01:29:47   I i mean i think that's what wikipedia [TS]

01:29:49   is for you open up the economist you [TS]

01:29:52   read the first five pages of it in front [TS]

01:29:54   of your computer and every word you [TS]

01:29:56   don't understand every idea that comes [TS]

01:29:58   across your bow that that you're even [TS]

01:30:00   slightly curious about just wikipedia [TS]

01:30:03   the term and spend another two minutes [TS]

01:30:08   reading a little bit deeper on the idea [TS]

01:30:11   i mean people i mean it's it's the most [TS]

01:30:13   common thing in the world right now [TS]

01:30:14   everybody's got an opinion about [TS]

01:30:16   Palestine the Palestinians and the [TS]

01:30:19   Israelis and no one has even a you know [TS]

01:30:26   even a a penny turned on its side [TS]

01:30:30   worth of depth of understanding of this [TS]

01:30:33   of of the history of the situation and [TS]

01:30:35   i'm not saying that understanding the [TS]

01:30:37   history of the situation helps you know [TS]

01:30:39   what the solution to the problem is but [TS]

01:30:43   I think understanding the history of the [TS]

01:30:45   situation keeps that will it affect [TS]

01:30:50   effectively tamps down at least my [TS]

01:30:52   willingness to wade into an argument [TS]

01:30:54   with every in a bar about the [TS]

01:30:58   Palestinian situation because you know [TS]

01:31:00   people are just like I'm like right he [TS]

01:31:03   your you don't know you don't know [TS]

01:31:06   anything and and it's not hard that [TS]

01:31:09   that's the problem that in America now [TS]

01:31:11   knowing stuff being educated is is so [TS]

01:31:17   equated in the popular culture with with [TS]

01:31:20   a kind of elitism and elitism is just [TS]

01:31:24   completely equated with liberalism and a [TS]

01:31:27   kind of activist liberalism that wants [TS]

01:31:30   you to eat your beets and wants to teach [TS]

01:31:32   sex education to your five-year-old kids [TS]

01:31:35   and wants to force those kids to become [TS]

01:31:37   gay have the school nurses to abortions [TS]

01:31:39   have the school nurses do abortions so [TS]

01:31:42   so there's this cascading hatred for [TS]

01:31:45   being informed that that in in one way [TS]

01:31:51   emotionally I absolutely understand that [TS]

01:31:54   that the vast majority of people in [TS]

01:31:57   America I'm so not the majority but [TS]

01:31:58   fifty percent of the people in America [TS]

01:32:00   have felt for a long time that there was [TS]

01:32:03   some smug university administrator at [TS]

01:32:10   their local high school telling them [TS]

01:32:11   that they couldn't spank their kids [TS]

01:32:13   anymore and they resent it and they [TS]

01:32:16   don't have the they don't have the [TS]

01:32:18   emotional elasticity to wade into it and [TS]

01:32:22   and and deal with the gray area they [TS]

01:32:24   just reject the whole concept that [TS]

01:32:26   somebody from the from the local [TS]

01:32:29   university should ever come to them and [TS]

01:32:30   tell them how to do anything and so you [TS]

01:32:34   get you get a you get a world of people [TS]

01:32:36   who resent the idea that there is [TS]

01:32:38   information that they could have [TS]

01:32:40   have that would help them clarify their [TS]

01:32:45   thoughts on topics that matter to them I [TS]

01:32:48   and it's just it's endlessly frustrating [TS]

01:32:51   i I'm counting us all the time on [TS]

01:32:54   twitter I'll send something out like hey [TS]

01:32:56   everybody [TS]

01:32:58   why don't you try reading a book of John [TS]

01:33:00   and i'll get i'll get 15 angry tweets [TS]

01:33:05   back from people like why don't you stop [TS]

01:33:07   telling me how to live right it's like [TS]

01:33:10   I'm just say I'm not telling you how to [TS]

01:33:12   live man seriously I'm just suggesting [TS]

01:33:15   that you might like a book to read [TS]

01:33:18   sometimes [TS]

01:33:19   no you're not doing that you're trying [TS]

01:33:21   to take my kids from me and this also i [TS]

01:33:24   think its effects and stuff we were [TS]

01:33:26   saying more toward the beginning but [TS]

01:33:28   there's also just this i hate to make [TS]

01:33:32   this sound like something all the media [TS]

01:33:33   pushes this on whoever the media is but [TS]

01:33:35   there is there is first of all a focus a [TS]

01:33:38   focus on conflict always because that's [TS]

01:33:40   a story should be about conflict [TS]

01:33:42   according to a lot of people but it's [TS]

01:33:44   also about it's also about just this [TS]

01:33:47   constant dualistic approach to [TS]

01:33:50   everything [TS]

01:33:50   where's conservatives and liberals or [TS]

01:33:52   does this and that and yeah maybe I'm a [TS]

01:33:55   contrarian but i think that that is [TS]

01:33:57   limiting in ways that most of us have [TS]

01:33:58   never really even completely thought [TS]

01:34:01   about if we really think about how [TS]

01:34:02   limiting that is I mean here's the thing [TS]

01:34:04   things happen in the world and probably [TS]

01:34:07   run till careful [TS]

01:34:09   well I'm just saying like maybe I mean [TS]

01:34:11   there are some things where you could [TS]

01:34:13   really be no trace the provenance of an [TS]

01:34:16   action say well that's because a liberal [TS]

01:34:18   want to do this thing or that's because [TS]

01:34:20   well that's really I just I feel like [TS]

01:34:24   that'sthat's like you're incredibly [TS]

01:34:25   narrow way to see the world instead of [TS]

01:34:27   having enough of a critical eye to go [TS]

01:34:29   will know that's just the thing that [TS]

01:34:30   happened and I'm gonna have a look at it [TS]

01:34:32   in context with other things instead of [TS]

01:34:34   constantly trying to square this done [TS]

01:34:36   your double entry accounting of trying [TS]

01:34:38   to figure out where weather which one of [TS]

01:34:39   these tribes this fits into any other [TS]

01:34:42   our tribes are busy but it's there's [TS]

01:34:44   maybe there's you know like it like it [TS]

01:34:45   like I said he's in Israel where you [TS]

01:34:48   don't have to you know opposing sides [TS]

01:34:50   have 19 you have these coalition's and I [TS]

01:34:53   just think in the US this is all [TS]

01:34:54   is this could be again the narcissism of [TS]

01:34:56   minor differences were always looking [TS]

01:34:57   for who we align ourselves with and I [TS]

01:34:59   think that's fine if you if you if that [TS]

01:35:02   makes you happy like you can pick what [TS]

01:35:03   pro wrestler you're really into or [TS]

01:35:05   whatever but I think it's extremely [TS]

01:35:06   limiting and trying to see the world [TS]

01:35:08   clearly to instead of seeing facts and [TS]

01:35:10   events in and of themselves and and then [TS]

01:35:13   really square them against the context [TS]

01:35:15   for what else is happening like that to [TS]

01:35:17   me is like the the beauty like a liberal [TS]

01:35:19   arts education teaches you how to wander [TS]

01:35:21   around a library and then wonder how [TS]

01:35:23   something might be not what it seems to [TS]

01:35:24   be I think I think that's a big part of [TS]

01:35:27   it i guess i just wish that there wasn't [TS]

01:35:28   always this constant feeling of like who [TS]

01:35:30   that and culture so and cultures a pro [TS]

01:35:33   wrestler like when you're getting mad at [TS]

01:35:35   her you might as well be getting mad at [TS]

01:35:36   the Iron Sheik she's making an entire [TS]

01:35:37   career out of making you angry and like [TS]

01:35:40   why would you why would you keep feeding [TS]

01:35:42   into that you know I michelle bachman [TS]

01:35:45   okay i get it you don't like being [TS]

01:35:46   michelle bachman like how are you going [TS]

01:35:48   to dissuade people from the michelle [TS]

01:35:49   bachman project by yelling on twitter [TS]

01:35:51   it's yeah it's a little boring rehash [TS]

01:35:56   stuff but I'm just glad we're so much [TS]

01:35:58   better than other people [TS]

01:35:59   well it's true John Roderick this is [TS]

01:36:02   long I've got this giant list of things [TS]

01:36:04   I want to talk to you about that will [TS]

01:36:05   probably have to save for our are [TS]

01:36:08   imminent teacher podcast you know we'll [TS]

01:36:10   save it for the Merlin talks to John [TS]

01:36:12   podcast get Roderick on the line i think [TS]

01:36:14   it should be called Roderick on the line [TS]

01:36:16   and we we should start making that very [TS]

01:36:18   soon because otherwise i would have to [TS]

01:36:22   go back to work doing my own thing [TS]

01:36:24   minutes [TS]

01:36:25   well we'll talk about that let's avoid [TS]

01:36:26   that for now like all of our [TS]

01:36:28   conversations this one must end because [TS]

01:36:30   i have to urinate and have to imagine [TS]

01:36:31   that you probably do too [TS]

01:36:33   that is how a lot of our conversations [TS]

01:36:35   and isn't it even more you gotta catch a [TS]

01:36:37   flight or somebody has to go to the [TS]

01:36:39   bathroom that's pretty much it [TS]

01:36:40   that's right that's right it's usually [TS]

01:36:41   you have to go to the bathroom when I [TS]

01:36:43   have to catch a flight [TS]

01:36:44   yeah I can ruin a bathroom I gotta ruin [TS]

01:36:47   a flight you could have been that man [TS]

01:36:49   you've ruined that van but i don't know [TS]

01:36:52   i don't know what's going on in your in [TS]

01:36:54   your basement John to guilt then there's [TS]

01:36:57   some suggestion that I eat too much [TS]

01:36:59   sausage that i can document the process [TS]

01:37:02   that sense [TS]

01:37:04   I don't know how to process that sausage [TS]

01:37:06   that's like autu robble robble too much [TS]

01:37:08   i just didn't even hear the words in [TS]

01:37:10   that sense [TS]

01:37:11   alright alright John Roderick of the [TS]

01:37:14   long winters inspiration and bon vivant [TS]

01:37:18   raconteur see you play [TS]

01:37:22   yeah 43 and I'm DWI until until you're [TS]

01:37:28   on the the next contribution musical [TS]

01:37:31   contribution to your over is ready to [TS]

01:37:33   drop as we say in the rap business why [TS]

01:37:35   would you like people to visit with what [TS]

01:37:37   you do they should follow you on twitter [TS]

01:37:38   at the were not at John Rocker know they [TS]

01:37:41   should absolutely follow me on the [TS]

01:37:42   twitter if they don't they're being [TS]

01:37:43   responsible [TS]

01:37:44   um I think they're just hurting [TS]

01:37:46   themselves but also i mean if you're [TS]

01:37:49   interested in if you're interested in [TS]

01:37:52   any of the topics that we have covered [TS]

01:37:53   today i have a community that your visit [TS]

01:37:56   your local library [TS]

01:37:57   I have a good visit your local library [TS]

01:37:58   or my online store where all of these [TS]

01:38:01   quotes can be purchased on a t-shirt was [TS]

01:38:06   that is where the best place to find out [TS]

01:38:08   what you're up to you i will link to [TS]

01:38:11   things also that the best conduit the [TS]

01:38:14   long winters dot-com is a is up is my [TS]

01:38:16   website and that but better but because [TS]

01:38:19   the long winters haven't produced a [TS]

01:38:20   record in several years that website has [TS]

01:38:23   its not dormant exactly by that but it [TS]

01:38:26   that I think there's still a message [TS]

01:38:27   board community that I think I'm i think [TS]

01:38:30   i'm hosting it is I that haha [TS]

01:38:33   nobody's busy been busy now he can [TS]

01:38:35   update the sites like East he's got a [TS]

01:38:36   very very busy [TS]

01:38:37   yeah yeah he is a busy man yeah but no I [TS]

01:38:40   I you know I think Twitter is a good [TS]

01:38:42   first first place to look but I you know [TS]

01:38:45   I often don't I don't tweet about things [TS]

01:38:49   until after they happen sometimes I mean [TS]

01:38:51   you know basically if you want to find [TS]

01:38:53   me [TS]

01:38:53   good luck yeah i'm not one of those [TS]

01:38:56   people that's like on the internet come [TS]

01:38:58   look at me all the time sure you are [TS]

01:38:59   well get used to be you like you make a [TS]

01:39:02   big game but you're like strapping like [TS]

01:39:04   a strap virus you just use come around [TS]

01:39:07   yeah sometimes on doorknobs yeah you can [TS]

01:39:09   catch me on a toilet seat and catch me [TS]

01:39:11   the toilet seat allowed near threat and [TS]

01:39:13   then they'll get the action [TS]

01:39:14   AJ AJ giggle homers yeah people stupid [TS]

01:39:20   John Roderick often long winters thank [TS]

01:39:21   you very much for your time [TS]

01:39:23   everything you like to part with to say [TS]

01:39:25   anything parting words to the back to [TS]

01:39:27   work audience [TS]

01:39:28   well I feel like you guys ought to get [TS]

01:39:29   back to work and i hope this has been [TS]

01:39:32   enjoyable and I'm gonna reset you down [TS]

01:39:39   here i love you to marlon bye-bye [TS]

01:39:45   [Music] [TS]

01:40:17   [Music] [TS]

01:40:37   [Music] [TS]

01:41:29   [Music] [TS]