Roderick on the Line

Ep. 46 Special: Origin of Roderick on the Line

 

  and [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  whenever I say your name when you're not [TS]

  around I do it to the tune of nasty boys [TS]

  by janet jackson i don't know why but I [TS]

  don't care why I just love it [TS]

  iceland man i'm just glad I'm glad you [TS]

  think of me i def for you I i always do [TS]

  Mercedes boy how does that go see do you [TS]

  want a ride on my John Roderick oh my [TS]

  sounds I never really held during your [TS]

  name sounds like Peter O'Toole [TS]

  oh that's stealing from Groucho Marx [TS]

  there's so many ways I'm like Peter [TS]

  O'Toole and a few crucial ways I'm not [TS]

  you're tall you're slender your English [TS]

  mm you're in dashing in that Pixar movie [TS]

  I like drunk i enjoy him i really enjoy [TS]

  him in the other room there's another [TS]

  one on the mpr there's a show that [TS]

  sponsored by the Robert Wood Johnson [TS]

  Foundation I laugh out loud every time [TS]

  here but I want Robert to be a nickname [TS]

  too just because you can get the Triple [TS]

  Threat thick wood johnson his [TS]

  lesser-known brother Richard they didn't [TS]

  need a good name the foundation after [TS]

  him they just they found the grants for [TS]

  just disappearing my eyes you know I'm [TS]

  not a physicist but ah well sell [TS]

  yourself short you're sweet [TS]

  my question is do you think there might [TS]

  be some chance that you have some kind [TS]

  of a slight electrical charge that [TS]

  causes any electronic devices in your [TS]

  vicinity to fail [TS]

  well it's interesting at I don't believe [TS]

  in curses and i am i'm much more [TS]

  inclined to attribute the fact that all [TS]

  my equipment my my computer equipment in [TS]

  particular fails I i tribute that to the [TS]

  fact that computers are computers [TS]

  although we we use them every day and we [TS]

  think that they're great they are at the [TS]

  level of development that the airplane [TS]

  was when it was powered by bicycle [TS]

  motors and had had to have seven guys on [TS]

  each wing to get them aloft like we are [TS]

  still at the dawn of this era and these [TS]

  machines my Apple here in front of me [TS]

  which I which I love it's very beautiful [TS]

  i'm crossing it now [TS]

  but it is up it is a it is other horse [TS]

  it doesn't do any of the things that it [TS]

  claims to do it doesn't do any of them [TS]

  it doesn't do any of the things that [TS]

  even managed to eke out it doesn't do [TS]

  those things well and it just sits here [TS]

  on my table top as a as like a like a a [TS]

  talisman of all of all the potential i [TS]

  mean i can imagine what it would do it [TS]

  I i can imagine that my children will [TS]

  will love their computers and watch [TS]

  movies on them sluice live streaming and [TS]

  there will be no glitches but for me [TS]

  it's just it's just it's all potential [TS]

  it's there's no kinetic energy to these [TS]

  things I find I i find it baffling you [TS]

  seem like you [TS]

  hmm i'm just for what it's worth i would [TS]

  add another clinic or something you can [TS]

  go to but you should check the charge [TS]

  thing because i think that you live hard [TS]

  you play hard I think your heart your [TS]

  heart on things while you were you were [TS]

  you thinking of his sexual chemistry and [TS]

  that doesn't affect computers i do have [TS]

  it it is powerful but as far as i know [TS]

  it does it shouldn't affect the [TS]

  computers [TS]

  okay you know what you know what I would [TS]

  run a connectivity diagnostic to see but [TS]

  it had it would it would only tell me [TS]

  that the computer is having problems and [TS]

  couldn't connect [TS]

  mhm it's not gonna add you know a lot of [TS]

  diagonal the word diagnostic means [TS]

  diagnose and you can tell you what the [TS]

  you know that's good haha that the root [TS]

  of diagnostic diagnose Frank diagnose [TS]

  okay from the Greek god knows which [TS]

  means to know what is the problem and I [TS]

  running in diet meaning across daya [TS]

  across or to lose weight [TS]

  um and this is the diagnostic program [TS]

  does nothing it just tells me that it [TS]

  can't connect and then there's something [TS]

  else that can connect and then pretty [TS]

  soon I'm walking around reading a book [TS]

  out loud to myself and and and happier [TS]

  frankly see strike me as somebody who is [TS]

  not a turn light is overused you're not [TS]

  a willful light but you seemed to revel [TS]

  in in the physical objects of life more [TS]

  than the virtual things and when you use [TS]

  these tools you you are [TS]

  you seem to use them for a purpose i [TS]

  don't see you just kinda sitting around [TS]

  well I don't see you know usually but [TS]

  then I know you're an mp3 tag or so you [TS]

  knew a little you know i would i would [TS]

  kick around on the computer happily but [TS]

  it but it just it fails to live up to my [TS]

  expectations [TS]

  I'll see a big hands and you have became [TS]

  you might be having hidden two keys at [TS]

  once or something you know what this [TS]

  whole idea that maybe it's the sexual [TS]

  chemistry thing I'm gonna look into that [TS]

  because it's possible it that that has [TS]

  caused me problems and other walks of [TS]

  life [TS]

  mhm sure I mean it gets me out of [TS]

  traffic tickets when the woman when the [TS]

  cop is a woman must look a little [TS]

  cinemax little cinemax Police Department [TS]

  here's the thing [TS]

  the problem is you're going to go to UW [TS]

  gonna go to the the highly lauded I [TS]

  believe sexual chemistry clinic and it's [TS]

  gonna be some lady who's working on a [TS]

  graduate degree she's probably her hair [TS]

  in a bun she's got big big big glasses [TS]

  you're gonna walk in there and say [TS]

  please find out what my problem is [TS]

  help me write but they're right there [TS]

  that's the root of the problem before [TS]

  she even gets the clipboard out the hair [TS]

  is down the glasses are off [TS]

  that's right and and she's up on the [TS]

  desk who and then and then Alex Van [TS]

  Halen plays the drum solo and then this [TS]

  happens to me on a weekly basis [TS]

  I don't even know how Alex knows where I [TS]

  am he seems to always know where I'm [TS]

  going to be he's good with those eight [TS]

  he plays the that song hot for teacher [TS]

  basically double double double kick drum [TS]

  thing that he does that right he does [TS]

  but it isn't a double-double pick them [TS]

  as far as i know how about a little [TS]

  paddle double pass not a double pedal as [TS]

  far as i know he's playing that with a [TS]

  single kick drum pedal must have [TS]

  outstanding ankles I got that's true [TS]

  mm it's eventually going to get to in a [TS]

  jury's gonna have to get one of those [TS]

  def leppard deals he's gonna have to get [TS]

  everything triggered a fake arm he does [TS]

  he have a fact that he was just rolling [TS]

  you know Roland mono third arm [TS]

  urw are you a big Def Leppard fan back [TS]

  in the day right there overlooking read [TS]

  with a pre pyromania era def leppard was [TS]

  the operator pyromania was the was the [TS]

  the bridge that I had a hard time [TS]

  crossing everything before pyromania i [TS]

  thought was solid gold because it is [TS]

  solid gold pyromania now I look back I [TS]

  realize it's a great record [TS]

  the time very hard for me to swallow [TS]

  some of those keyboards and all that [TS]

  yeah and it but the thing is back in the [TS]

  day the guitar players like 15 [TS]

  yeah it was amazing now this is all [TS]

  before Shania Twain right this is this [TS]

  is mud length should retain what are you [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  is that not the wash my ears out is that [TS]

  record not produced by Robert mile mile [TS]

  and will also take highway to hell i [TS]

  believe but but he but tonight was like [TS]

  15 years later okay I'm just saying but [TS]

  you go back you go back you listen even [TS]

  to bringing on the heartbreak and there [TS]

  is a certain polish glitzy shyness to [TS]

  that you would not here in venom [TS]

  oriental I'd or your beloved Slater [TS]

  you're not gonna hear in venom for sure [TS]

  uh yeah but that polish you know ACDC [TS]

  you can polish ACDC all day long it's [TS]

  still going to be hardcore right I think [TS]

  that's why that record stands up so well [TS]

  though is that the songs were tired I'm [TS]

  sure can influence on that the song i [TS]

  mean i love you know me we go back we go [TS]

  back with ac/dc but i'm telling you i [TS]

  think for a bonds post bonds got record [TS]

  i think that one stands up pretty well [TS]

  it's partly because it's very listenable [TS]

  it's super listenable and I think what [TS]

  might lang did then is what producers [TS]

  should do which is they listen to the [TS]

  band and they say yeah that's good did [TS]

  you think about trying a little harder [TS]

  next time [TS]

  did you think about trying a little [TS]

  harder on the next take like sing it [TS]

  like you mean it and play it like you [TS]

  mean it ok go and and i think in the [TS]

  last 10 years last 20 years producers I [TS]

  mean every kid with a with a Macintosh [TS]

  computer in GarageBand now calls himself [TS]

  a producer couch and bands yeah i know [TS]

  that you present company excepted sure [TS]

  Berlin you are a brilliant producer but [TS]

  there are a lot of people out there who [TS]

  are actually you are actually selling [TS]

  themselves to bands as producers and the [TS]

  bands come in they play their song the [TS]

  guy you know turn some reverb on egos [TS]

  sounds great and it doesn't sound great [TS]

  you know but that but the guy that [TS]

  that's recording them doesn't know [TS]

  enough to say to say one thing the other [TS]

  to say like i am you know [TS]

  kill that second snare hit or whatever [TS]

  that the little the little details that [TS]

  that producers that the good producers [TS]

  add to make good records great minds [TS]

  even in the old days and no matter how [TS]

  much I spend I I don't know how to [TS]

  describe this but like and i have never [TS]

  done anything I've ever done and [TS]

  recorded since whatever 1986 has never [TS]

  been anything is meticulous is what you [TS]

  do because you really do like you have [TS]

  the ears to hear these little things and [TS]

  I know you've got the bedding today with [TS]

  i love garageband just because I think [TS]

  of it almost like because it's like the [TS]

  difference between exit sketch and [TS]

  having a big box of paint like I know [TS]

  that I i think i know the limitations of [TS]

  this and i just love because it's so [TS]

  fast for me yeah right and I've gotten [TS]

  really comfortable using it but that's [TS]

  where do i go back and I'm just listen [TS]

  to other spam where they called cheer [TS]

  accident i was listening to and it's [TS]

  like I just the latest thing i bought [TS]

  and she go back and listen to any of [TS]

  those Yusuf obviously flight bags and we [TS]

  didn't like pretty much any record by [TS]

  somebody good at colton's record and [TS]

  like there's like a nice to this [TS]

  interview call the other day like [TS]

  there's so much like personality to [TS]

  every song they all sound different [TS]

  it doesn't just sound like somebody [TS]

  selected Stadium in in the output [TS]

  setting you know and it doesn't you know [TS]

  every tracks it's great it's great for [TS]

  prototyping but that's one thing i like [TS]

  about many things i like about your [TS]

  music like about your your records is [TS]

  that there's there's so much there is a [TS]

  lot of personality and I don't know you [TS]

  so on the one hand we talked about this [TS]

  with some interviews while back and we [TS]

  talked about how the process works for [TS]

  you at every level and it seems like [TS]

  there is a contrast between it seems [TS]

  like you record with relative don't know [TS]

  what the word is but it's not that [TS]

  you're sloppy or something but like you [TS]

  said you're not going to do 42 takes of [TS]

  a song but then it seems like you you're [TS]

  very careful in the editing and [TS]

  listening and definitely in the in the [TS]

  track order processing you almost seem [TS]

  to function more like an editor some [TS]

  ways [TS]

  well the M in terms of how many passes [TS]

  i'm going to do on a on a vocal tract uh [TS]

  you're absolutely right i won't i won't [TS]

  sit and work on vocal tract as the [TS]

  performer all day but i will be super [TS]

  meticulous about getting [TS]

  about you know adding little surprise [TS]

  moments little teeny tinkles and [TS]

  twinkles and I think that some of that [TS]

  is that I came of age in the recording [TS]

  era when all that stuff became more and [TS]

  more possible it's the John Vanderslice [TS]

  ization of indie rock where you have [TS]

  that you have the time you have the [TS]

  resources and you have the inclination [TS]

  to put a keyboard part on a song that [TS]

  will never reappear that doesn't that [TS]

  sound doesn't appear anywhere else on [TS]

  the record it's just a it's a two second [TS]

  thing that that you feel like is at [TS]

  one-hundred percent necessarily on this [TS]

  tune and if you if you think back to a [TS]

  when they recorded the house of the [TS]

  rising sun right they got four guys in a [TS]

  room and they said roll it and they they [TS]

  ran the song and then they started [TS]

  drinking like it if they didn't spend [TS]

  months and months putting littles on [TS]

  there there [TS]

  I mean what they did was they spent [TS]

  months and months rehearsing and that's [TS]

  something I guess in indie rock we don't [TS]

  do as much or at least we don't do as [TS]

  much it was also a time though it [TS]

  strikes me that that was a time when [TS]

  yeah it was certainly more primitive [TS]

  recording conditions but don't you think [TS]

  this is wrong but I think that's also [TS]

  rock music was not taking it seriously [TS]

  it was not seen as an already thing like [TS]

  in whatever 1964-65 and the Beatles were [TS]

  starting that but I mean was really [TS]

  until 67 68 people took the time and the [TS]

  polish and I wonder if in some ways it [TS]

  was just seen as more of a commodity you [TS]

  know where columbia records and this [TS]

  giant roster of people in the message it [TS]

  and certainly things like Phil Spector I [TS]

  mean they must have just said okay let's [TS]

  bring a bunch of pros in monkeys whoever [TS]

  you bring a bunch of pros and just plow [TS]

  through this as fast as you can [TS]

  yeah it's absolutely right they did not [TS]

  think that 50 years from now those tunes [TS]

  would still be not just relevant but [TS]

  like the the the the underpinning [TS]

  foundation of what remains an entire [TS]

  industry of selling music and culture [TS]

  from 50 years ago [TS]

  I mean they made house of the rising sun [TS]

  which they didn't write it was a cover [TS]

  they did it in one take and they thought [TS]

  that it would go up the charts and then [TS]

  it would go down the charts and they and [TS]

  then that would be that would be the end [TS]

  of it you never hear it again you know [TS]

  or if you did it would be some some [TS]

  bobby-soxer is playing it on their on [TS]

  their little collapsible record player [TS]

  no one ever thought that house of the [TS]

  rising sun would still be played ten [TS]

  times a day on every classic rock radio [TS]

  station across the country and across [TS]

  the world 50 years later 40 years later [TS]

  so you're right they just they jammed it [TS]

  out and they were like next I think when [TS]

  we make music now in the aftermath of [TS]

  that we're conscious i think to our [TS]

  detriment conscious of the fact that [TS]

  potentially we're making it for history [TS]

  potentially one day at the library of [TS]

  congress a man will sit down and listen [TS]

  to all the long winters records and he [TS]

  will identify the keyboard patches and [TS]

  it would be a matter of some import like [TS]

  you think about it that way [TS]

  unconsciously because of the way we've [TS]

  all minutely dissected the Beatles [TS]

  records and the and all those records [TS]

  that we love the pink floyd records like [TS]

  those of us who love recording that we [TS]

  know every single microphone they used [TS]

  on every single part in how many takes [TS]

  they did that without it I and so when [TS]

  you're making music yourself in light of [TS]

  that I mean you can't you almost can't [TS]

  help yourself and that's a pretty high [TS]

  bar though if you're still riding [TS]

  against works kinetically your hyper [TS]

  just hypothetically trying to finish [TS]

  finish a record I that's got to be I [TS]

  mean just you must have friends that are [TS]

  struggle with that at one point or [TS]

  another we all do i don't think i think [TS]

  what's the the great bands and I'm talk [TS]

  about the great bands of now not the [TS]

  great bands of history but the great [TS]

  indie rock bands of now there's always [TS]

  at least one guy in the fan that says or [TS]

  one guy on their team that says this [TS]

  thing's got to get done by by monday the [TS]

  and the other guys you know if they want [TS]

  to take all the time in the world to to [TS]

  screw with the Tambling part monday the [TS]

  11th is pretty hard it's a hard date so [TS]

  that's something that I have lacked [TS]

  being a free being a sole proprietor and [TS]

  free agents [TS]

  um no one has no one has the authority [TS]

  to tell me that it's let's do a monday [TS]

  the eleventh and so some of tried so [TS]

  many many have tried in fact I've even [TS]

  like I'm even sent people letters and [TS]

  said let's put the black like when you [TS]

  when you call your your wife at work and [TS]

  say tonight let's pretend that you are a [TS]

  nurse coming home or I know [TS]

  no you're a nurse coming for a house [TS]

  call to help a man who has a problem [TS]

  very much like that i have called some [TS]

  of my friends and said let's pretend [TS]

  that you have some authority over me and [TS]

  you are going to come right me angry [TS]

  letter or grab me by the shirt collar [TS]

  and tell me that my records get done by [TS]

  X day and my friends have all been good [TS]

  sports about it and they showed up at my [TS]

  house in the nurse's costume and I said [TS]

  no no I made that what did i send that [TS]

  email to you [TS]

  Oh visual guy you're looking for some [TS]

  kind of constraint [TS]

  yeah that's right i'm not looking for I [TS]

  mean that's the problem you can't you [TS]

  can empower somebody to have power over [TS]

  you if you are empowering them then the [TS]

  power is still yours you can't give them [TS]

  the power and then haven't had any [TS]

  effect on you if you're unless you're [TS]

  really into role-playing right so yeah [TS]

  I've I've I've tried to get somebody to [TS]

  to set a deadline and up until now and I [TS]

  know that has worked but just recently I [TS]

  got a email from my different john [TS]

  hodgman and he said get your record done [TS]

  by labor day sincerely John Hodgman [TS]

  and for some reason the succinct mess of [TS]

  that and reading it aloud in his voice [TS]

  which Brooks no argument is working his [TS]

  voice just naturally Brooks no argument [TS]

  got kinda now you put it that way you're [TS]

  asking almost kind of like a headmaster [TS]

  quality that's right John Hodgman tells [TS]

  you something in the in the infinite [TS]

  definitive voice you don't you're not [TS]

  going to like if you do try and argue [TS]

  with him [TS]

  you're just gonna sound like you're [TS]

  whining no he's gonna say no your record [TS]

  should be done by labor day sincerely [TS]

  that is all sincerely john hodgman and [TS]

  it's actually that has actually had had [TS]

  an effect on me I've been working I've [TS]

  been writing just I think it's because I [TS]

  hold him in high esteem and so I so it's [TS]

  a different it's not you know it's not [TS]

  that I i tasked him with with the with [TS]

  the job of telling me to do it he did it [TS]

  he did it sort of independently as a as [TS]

  a favor and as a writer who has [TS]

  struggled to complete his own work he [TS]

  knows you just you do you need an [TS]

  artificial wall [TS]

  you know what else it is because he's [TS]

  and so I've talked about him and I don't [TS]

  like we're like we're the best friends [TS]

  in the world where not just the guy [TS]

  who's really nice to me that's times you [TS]

  and him but he on he's eep and people [TS]

  like him can have I think can have a [TS]

  tremendous effect not just because of [TS]

  being an expert and former professional [TS]

  liberation but also it's just it's yeah [TS]

  we've talked about this at length you're [TS]

  so surrounded by people everybody is [TS]

  these days especially social media [TS]

  especially in your rock biz but you show [TS]

  surrounded by people who are not [TS]

  precisely 60 fanuc but who never really [TS]

  say true things or or would never say [TS]

  anything to you that was too far at odds [TS]

  with what they perceive to be your thing [TS]

  I i only say that because like to be to [TS]

  have somebody who you really admire give [TS]

  you a note that shows they care about [TS]

  what you do and are interested in your [TS]

  output on i find that to be a weird [TS]

  smack on the head [TS]

  mhm and sometimes it makes you want to [TS]

  finish things other times it makes you [TS]

  wonder why I'm having trouble finishing [TS]

  it because maybe I don't think it's up [TS]

  to par for somebody like John I you know [TS]

  what I'm saying like to me I that's [TS]

  really complicated but don't you think I [TS]

  mean you talked at length about this [TS]

  like so many things the news it's a you [TS]

  know you're surrounded you talk about [TS]

  you know you got everybody's trying to [TS]

  screw you and in you and steal your [TS]

  copper pipe and stuff and and a great [TS]

  line will prevent shown that people can [TS]

  go and watch are extremely long [TS]

  interview where you yell at the hippies [TS]

  and drink seltzer but didn't you find it [TS]

  to be the case I mean you're surrounded [TS]

  people hey man that's great like that's [TS]

  awesome i really like that thing you do [TS]

  with the thing [TS]

  well yeah it's just I the the sickle [TS]

  fantic nature of our culture now is [TS]

  based on this false idea that that that [TS]

  nobody can handle the bad news [TS]

  nobody wants nobody wants anyone to yell [TS]

  at them and so they're so they work very [TS]

  hard to never say anything controversial [TS]

  to never say anything that that might [TS]

  possibly inspire someone to yell at them [TS]

  back you know and so people are talking [TS]

  to each other in this within this this [TS]

  language of like completely failed [TS]

  meaning all the time in a friendly talk [TS]

  happy friendly talk all the time i'm [TS]

  talking about specifically in the arts [TS]

  in the West but and an artist have a [TS]

  tendency to do it because they had to [TS]

  varying degrees they all end up feeling [TS]

  screwed at one time or another by an [TS]

  interviewer i did this happen to you I [TS]

  know where you meet you you feel [TS]

  something that you would consider trying [TS]

  to be honest and then just means [TS]

  everybody but you say something and you [TS]

  know obviously some interviews you [TS]

  assume that they're interested in [TS]

  something you want to say something that [TS]

  you haven't said before and by exposing [TS]

  yourself i'm sure it's happening million [TS]

  times by exposing yourself you get this [TS]

  secret some kind of yeah they make it [TS]

  like fish that they take they take the [TS]

  thing where you say oh that guy's a dick [TS]

  and they make it the headline of their [TS]

  article and you go [TS]

  no I don't think I didn't actually [TS]

  something going like the story that the [TS]

  my feeling my assignment for this story [TS]

  is to get to basically hang out and wait [TS]

  mm-hmm and so this person gives me the [TS]

  quote that I'm looking for [TS]

  yeah best evidence by things like I had [TS]

  an interview wants to just I just [TS]

  stopped after like five minutes because [TS]

  the person was like would you say that [TS]

  you have a really are kind of invented [TS]

  the productivity space online with a [TS]

  blog that has been as jaw-droppingly [TS]

  successful as your husband and I said [TS]

  it's personally not only would i not say [TS]

  that but it's I just can't even [TS]

  articulate you how important it is that [TS]

  you not even pretend that i said that [TS]

  right up [TS]

  this is why I as usual with energy i [TS]

  won't name names because there's a lot [TS]

  of names that can be named when talking [TS]

  with you but I i know at least a couple [TS]

  occasions you have basically said okay [TS]

  this interviews over i'm going to write [TS]

  and send it to you that will be the [TS]

  interview you up [TS]

  I have done bad i was what I really like [TS]

  is a little short interview in a [TS]

  well-known if indeed periodical and I [TS]

  read it like now screener you don't [TS]

  always see you know people don't always [TS]

  get you and you're like yeah well I read [TS]

  it for me [TS]

  yeah I said I you know what I'm gonna [TS]

  I'm gonna make this easy on us both [TS]

  I'm just gonna write your questions and [TS]

  my answers and the hill workout great [TS]

  don't worry all right you're out [TS]

  alright your questions in your voice [TS]

  don't worry I'll just somebody signs [TS]

  somebody asking for an interview i'll [TS]

  start by mailing them back written pull [TS]

  quotes the sounds this existence i mean [TS]

  the whole industries and artifice it's [TS]

  not like we're sitting around you know [TS]

  talking about folk dancing or something [TS]

  this is you know this is people who call [TS]

  you at the last conceivable moment for [TS]

  their deadlines and are looking for [TS]

  something that they can jam into 200 [TS]

  words or whatever in most cases right if [TS]

  you're like a like an actual magazine [TS]

  some it's likely be some long setting [TS]

  aside like a wonderful stranger [TS]

  interview years ago [TS]

  you're not going to get like a five [TS]

  thousand word oh well but even when even [TS]

  if you do I mean I the the interview [TS]

  that comes to mind for me I didn't a [TS]

  long feature in a national magazine at [TS]

  one point about a [TS]

  about some other musicians that i had [TS]

  just been touring with in Spain and they [TS]

  were you know they were sort of [TS]

  legendary characters and this [TS]

  interviewer was he was a super nice guy [TS]

  in a smart guy and we SAT just talked [TS]

  all day and it was it would it had been [TS]

  a very candid tour you know we were on [TS]

  tour together and i was there kind of in [TS]

  a junior capacity just like just sort of [TS]

  feeling lucky to be there and everybody [TS]

  on the tour was really great they [TS]

  embraced me please don't please don't [TS]

  eat off Matthews craft services wasn't [TS]

  like that at all know and and by the end [TS]

  of the tour we were just like you know [TS]

  we we were speaking to each other who as [TS]

  you do old friends so I'm giving this [TS]

  interview a long feature interview and [TS]

  this than the interviewer knows all [TS]

  about this tour and so he's he's asking [TS]

  me all these questions so what was it [TS]

  like and I i I'd only been back a week [TS]

  or so from this thing so I'm still in [TS]

  this mindset like I'm incredibly close [TS]

  friends with these guys my god these [TS]

  guys this is a bunch of nuts and they're [TS]

  drunks in there [TS]

  well these guys are just a bunch of [TS]

  head and this guy's riding it down note [TS]

  4 nodes and this this massive a article [TS]

  about me comes out like heralding the [TS]

  release of my new record and all the [TS]

  pole quotes are like so anyway these [TS]

  guys are total drugs Jonna and I get it [TS]

  I get some angry phone calls from these [TS]

  people saying like what you know we let [TS]

  you into our our little scene and and [TS]

  this is you know yet this huge national [TS]

  article and your talk about us all feel [TS]

  of things and I was like but but no I i [TS]

  was I thought we were I was doing it all [TS]

  like haha like we're friends and they're [TS]

  like boo and they're there are a couple [TS]

  of guys from that scene that still I [TS]

  mean that the what the guys from that [TS]

  that whole world that were that I was [TS]

  genuinely close to understood and it it [TS]

  probably wouldn't have happened to them [TS]

  because they wouldn't have been they [TS]

  they would never have let their guard [TS]

  down that way in an interview and it did [TS]

  happen to me and it sort of cauterized [TS]

  me a little bit particularly about [TS]

  talking about other people you know i'll [TS]

  still let my guard down that way talking [TS]

  about myself but if somebody says so [TS]

  what do you think of Merlin man i'm not [TS]

  going to say he looks he looks bone in [TS]

  his underwear [TS]

  he's a four-flusher and a double dealer [TS]

  and he is bacon sucks [TS]

  eazy-e bacon cook a ham I think worst [TS]

  dad in the world [TS]

  what about that worst dad in the world [TS]

  but you can you quote me on that [TS]

  I'm not going to do that anymore you [TS]

  know because because you don't have any [TS]

  power over how that gets how that gets [TS]

  messy but there are these guys guys who [TS]

  I respected and guys who and still [TS]

  respecting guys who enjoyed their [TS]

  company who if I meet them at some big [TS]

  rock thing like i did I ran into one of [TS]

  them in the lobby of a hotel in [TS]

  barcelona one time and he can I was like [TS]

  oh hey and I Inanna you there's only so [TS]

  many times you can like fault [TS]

  yes it is slightly indeterminate [TS]

  European accent hey uh hey [TS]

  and you know you can't every time you [TS]

  see the guy grabbed him again and say [TS]

  look I'm still really sorry I called you [TS]

  a drunk in that magazine even though you [TS]

  are a drunk but I know that's just [TS]

  between you me and everybody that's ever [TS]

  met you but come on this is not to see [TS]

  here's the thing John this is an [TS]

  occupational hazard for you that I think [TS]

  you should turn into an Occupational [TS]

  benefit because you are the [TS]

  opportunities take this as an [TS]

  opportunity that's funny good thing [TS]

  right [TS]

  I don't know I don't know I did my bob [TS]

  odenkirk impression the other day and I [TS]

  was really embarrassed but to fully [TS]

  break the here's the thing you are you [TS]

  know you can you can play sly about this [TS]

  but I know how much you enjoy being the [TS]

  bull in the china closet and the part [TS]

  that makes that complicated is not the [TS]

  bullet but the china closet I mean [TS]

  sometimes maybe I think you're in the [TS]

  wrong store and I I told you a long time [TS]

  ago I think you're coming around this [TS]

  now that you are a pundit but I said a [TS]

  long time ago like I i told you i'd [TS]

  consider you are generations Charles [TS]

  Nelson Reilly like I think you should I [TS]

  think if there's a venue [TS]

  you know what I mean you're the kind of [TS]

  person that would have been on Mike [TS]

  Douglas M and whatever jacked me [TS]

  whatever drug that you know i'm saying [TS]

  though you like I thought I could see [TS]

  sea-ice consider you and punched the [TS]

  wrong word about bon vivant or raconteur [TS]

  or some other kind of slightly gay word [TS]

  like I think I think of you not a good [TS]

  way like I the thing is your this is the [TS]

  thing about you and this has been my [TS]

  counsel to you for like 16 years now [TS]

  everyone spent is that is that you on it [TS]

  seems to me that like creating excellent [TS]

  rock music is is a facet of what you do [TS]

  and i just want to say I think there was [TS]

  a time when you poop food that because [TS]

  you regard yourself as clear that we are [TS]

  in employment you know even putting out [TS]

  these great records for him or another [TS]

  since the late nineties and I just [TS]

  wonder how has that changed about that I [TS]

  see you being a funny guy on twitter now [TS]

  I see you going in doing what I report [TS]

  from Bonnaroo you [TS]

  how to call them in the believer you but [TS]

  you're doing more stuff where by virtue [TS]

  of the fact that you are a bull in a [TS]

  china closet that attracts people to [TS]

  want you to go and put that voice [TS]

  somewhere that's it's not just around a [TS]

  lot of as you called it don't yell at me [TS]

  music yeah well i think i think that's [TS]

  that's inevitable because I because i do [TS]

  like to talk i like to hear the sound of [TS]

  my own voice yes i like to open up a [TS]

  newspaper and read the smart thing that [TS]

  I said to someone accurately transcribed [TS]

  with the correct punctuation but also i [TS]

  think the world the world has a a lot of [TS]

  people who have arrived on the scene and [TS]

  said I am a maker of opinions and that [TS]

  is only appealing so far because the [TS]

  because it begs the question every time [TS]

  why do I give a about your opinion i [TS]

  have an opinion to everybody's got one [TS]

  and what the world doesn't have a lot of [TS]

  is people who have made enough stuff [TS]

  that you can have a sense of where [TS]

  they're coming from that they that they [TS]

  are a maker of things so when they when [TS]

  they venture an opinion about something [TS]

  else you have some context to to judge [TS]

  whether or not you consider that person [TS]

  and authority you know for for the the [TS]

  internet uh the the people whose [TS]

  opinions I value about about pretty much [TS]

  any topic are people who have done any [TS]

  work of any kind in in their own venue [TS]

  so it like I you want when i used to [TS]

  write film reviews for the stranger [TS]

  which is the alternative newspaper up [TS]

  here in Seattle before i got my column [TS]

  for the weekly which is the other [TS]

  alternative newspaper in Seattle but the [TS]

  stranger would send me to review [TS]

  documentary films and they did it [TS]

  because I knew nothing about documentary [TS]

  films but they liked that I had a that I [TS]

  had a voice that's [TS]

  and from being an artist so I would [TS]

  watch this documentary films and I [TS]

  wouldn't have any of those oh I wouldn't [TS]

  have the language of a film critic i [TS]

  wouldn't be able to and I wouldn't sit [TS]

  there and say oh this film is just a [TS]

  copy of this other french film that that [TS]

  happened 25 years ago and has in and [TS]

  negates the need for this film you know [TS]

  I had none of that I would watch the [TS]

  film and i would judge it on my own [TS]

  tastes and on the merits of what I saw [TS]

  and so I when I look out at the internet [TS]

  you know when i see you comment on [TS]

  something or when I see a man comment on [TS]

  something when I see paul f tompkins [TS]

  comment on something or Hodgman friend [TS]

  or anything any of the people that we [TS]

  know who started creating started making [TS]

  art at some point or another in their [TS]

  lives and had success had six had had [TS]

  success either early or late based on [TS]

  the merits of the thing that they were [TS]

  like compelled to make all of a sudden [TS]

  their opinion is like gold to me on any [TS]

  topic you know I would listen to Amy man [TS]

  talk about the climate change [TS]

  well maybe not climate change but I [TS]

  would listen to me man talk about a [TS]

  whole lot about things that are real job [TS]

  but i would but that's right now I don't [TS]

  want to hear her talk about a hoax like [TS]

  climate change but i wanna hear talk [TS]

  about kind of whatever on her mind [TS]

  because her showing interesting and [TS]

  independent for a really long time so [TS]

  she's and she's someone who and I think [TS]

  I know the kind of folks are talking [TS]

  about the kind of folks you and I will [TS]

  follow on twitter or have conversations [TS]

  with and its your right i mean it's its [TS]

  people its i totally agree with you and [TS]

  this is the theme is a lot of my friends [TS]

  seem to share our lease say they share [TS]

  which is that personally a lot of your [TS]

  friends are liars I mean yes yes I mean [TS]

  I wouldn't have it any other way [TS]

  otherwise you know i don't think i can [TS]

  tolerate it but the i think a lot of [TS]

  people I know and admire would say that [TS]

  it's not even that I don't even have to [TS]

  like what you do and some level I may [TS]

  not even need to totally understand what [TS]

  you do but i love this [TS]

  the country has always said I i'm very [TS]

  interested in talking to anybody about [TS]

  what they do especially if they're [TS]

  really good at it and to hear them speak [TS]

  in some specificity about things like [TS]

  contrast distinctions quality difference [TS]

  and and these are the kinds of things [TS]

  that you know and ice is extremely [TS]

  productive thing to say but there's a [TS]

  lot of stuff on the internet there [TS]

  really isn't about a thumbs up [TS]

  they might even give you a thumbs down [TS]

  there's not really it was not a huge [TS]

  amount of nuance you run into this all [TS]

  the time on Twitter was with some very [TS]

  funny Holocaust related material and I [TS]

  think I think the thing that yesterday [TS]

  how it got some of the worst like ghetto [TS]

  but the point being like you don't say [TS]

  is somebody like you like part of what [TS]

  makes makes you so amusing to the people [TS]

  who think you're amusing is that there [TS]

  really is something very very wry about [TS]

  it that is not going to travel well in a [TS]

  in a reetou to somebody who for whom [TS]

  English is not my first language so that [TS]

  might be passed around more like that i [TS]

  don't know what you think about that [TS]

  because you strike me as somebody with a [TS]

  lot of curiosity about gosh just so many [TS]

  things that people do that are not indie [TS]

  rock and Twitter and you think there's a [TS]

  thread there i mean is that seems to me [TS]

  that these are people who are interested [TS]

  in in real things and saying real things [TS]

  more than simply mining what seems to be [TS]

  something other people would expect from [TS]

  them [TS]

  well it's hot it's hard on the listener [TS]

  if I mean a lot of the things that i say [TS]

  this podcast for instance i'm sure burns [TS]

  a lot of people's ears because they're [TS]

  not used to hearing people talk in a [TS]

  tone of voice even that is contentious [TS]

  with without the art without it [TS]

  developing into a fight you know and you [TS]

  and I can sit and talk for six hours and [TS]

  22 somebody sitting at the table next to [TS]

  us it would sound like we were having an [TS]

  argument the entire time it's the Larry [TS]

  David problem everything out about the [TS]

  wall mounts sounds like it's some kind [TS]

  of can you know we're making some [TS]

  contention and the other person you do [TS]

  this to me all the time you like [TS]

  no no and then you agree with me i don't [TS]

  know i know but it is you know I think [TS]

  it's perceived and I this is not [TS]

  peculiar to TN [TS]

  but I think loudmouths like us i think [TS]

  when in certain contexts it can come out [TS]

  as yes a judgment but a judgment that [TS]

  really demands a response and and I want [TS]

  to make a slight bridge to to a bigger [TS]

  and broader point here which is that I [TS]

  and getting to your your stuff you've [TS]

  done your record you're working on some [TS]

  changes in your life but i wonder [TS]

  whether in some ways it's this [TS]

  expectation of a certain kind of [TS]

  familiarity where it could be vanilla or [TS]

  it could be french vanilla or vanilla [TS]

  with strawberries but like it still [TS]

  needs to be that one flavor and if [TS]

  you're expecting it's almost like you [TS]

  hand somebody they think they're getting [TS]

  an iced tea but you have a dr pepper and [TS]

  the palate is is not really ready for [TS]

  that and it's I don't think anything [TS]

  wrong with them is nothing wrong with us [TS]

  it's just that that's not the way that a [TS]

  lot of people talk to each other and the [TS]

  thread i'm trying to find there's a lot [TS]

  of this is it seems like it seems like [TS]

  today it feels like there's a lot of [TS]

  advantage to fostering familiarity right [TS]

  and that goes right back to putting out [TS]

  animals records because you know we know [TS]

  that will sell you know [TS]

  yeah give it up but it's also the Balkan [TS]

  izing of the Balkan izing and and [TS]

  repackaging and fetishizing of really [TS]

  small cultures that I answer the the the [TS]

  the constant pandering that [TS]

  entertainment does to us now you know [TS]

  there there's very little there's very [TS]

  little in the way of music or or film [TS]

  that or a No in a lot of ways or novel [TS]

  writing that is genuinely challenging [TS]

  we're all pretty we're all pretty well [TS]

  we're all pretty self-aware now and [TS]

  we're all pretty cynical and so what we [TS]

  want is for to talk about Star Wars and [TS]

  what we wanted somebody to write a fit [TS]

  the feel-good movie of the summer and [TS]

  nobody wants I mean there is no modern [TS]

  Oscar Wilde because who could you know [TS]

  who was a polymath [TS]

  and a social critic and a you know like [TS]

  you still can cherry cherry a controller [TS]

  in but also a contrarian in realms that [TS]

  were truly dangerous you know that he [TS]

  ultimately in some that was put on trial [TS]

  for and convicted and imprisoned and [TS]

  none of those those steaks don't really [TS]

  exist in the same way so somebody can be [TS]

  a a social critic and a polymath and a [TS]

  ball move on and man either you like him [TS]

  or you don't change the channel [TS]

  I'm gonna go listen to the polymath that [TS]

  I think is funny and and so with that [TS]

  you lose the the Frisian of kind of [TS]

  being captivated by somebody that you [TS]

  don't like or captivated by somebody [TS]

  whose opinion gets under your skin and [TS]

  so and that has an effect on the [TS]

  creator's right so a lot of a lot of the [TS]

  people on Twitter that I respect top [TS]

  there if they work so hard for a thumbs [TS]

  up [TS]

  you know everybody on the internet is [TS]

  just trying to get a thumbs up and [TS]

  frankly I don't give a about a thumbs up [TS]

  and that's a and and what happens then [TS]

  is that you you risk not having 250,000 [TS]

  Twitter followers because a lot of [TS]

  people are like I give that up thumbs [TS]

  down [TS]

  goodbye and it's over your relationship [TS]

  with them is over they're never going to [TS]

  come back they they read one thing you [TS]

  wrote about some inconsequential thing [TS]

  they misinterpreted it in the first [TS]

  place because they don't know you they [TS]

  don't know your context and all of a [TS]

  sudden you just well you know you're off [TS]

  their list and so there is no room for [TS]

  sir I take umbrage at what you've said [TS]

  but I admire the language you used so [TS]

  but it's you all it's already like if [TS]

  the clash if the clash started today [TS]

  they wouldn't be successful in in less [TS]

  just drummer follow you back because [TS]

  because now I mean add one gathering for [TS]

  what you're saying in part is that you [TS]

  know de kaash even five years ago this [TS]

  was different but it's funny how today [TS]

  partly from market forces partly from [TS]

  social media partly from all of this [TS]

  sort of submarkets you discuss the [TS]

  consumer us consumer of of toots or a [TS]

  consumer of you know downloads or [TS]

  consumer anything in some ways don't you [TS]

  think that the consumer sets the [TS]

  expectation in a way that's really [TS]

  fundamentally different than the [TS]

  producers have historically been used to [TS]

  oh absolutely you could not think it's [TS]

  almost as good or bad or like you want [TS]

  to respond [TS]

  oh I can have that no but you know what [TS]

  I'm saying I mean there's a time when [TS]

  part of what made punk rock so bracing [TS]

  for people setting aside the economic [TS]

  conditions in England stuff like that [TS]

  part of it was that confident the [TS]

  confrontational part of that part of [TS]

  what made contains to make like Marcel [TS]

  Duchamp is is still mind-boggling to me [TS]

  like I forget about more about my [TS]

  soldiers and look at stuff in special [TS]

  read about his stuff and I mean gosh [TS]

  maybe even more than Picasso he was he [TS]

  was doing something i'm not talking [TS]

  about the urinal I'm just talking about [TS]

  everything he did was just a thing that [TS]

  he did and he wasn't worried about like [TS]

  whether you got it [TS]

  he was he was really but I think it [TS]

  would be hard not to have seen almost [TS]

  everything in the dots and all that was [TS]

  really hard to see everything they did [TS]

  is being somewhat confrontational by [TS]

  design and I think that kind of the [TS]

  could talk about new wave movies [TS]

  whatever these are things that were [TS]

  meant to challenge your expectations of [TS]

  the medium and to make you rethink I had [TS]

  a pretty deep level how you see and [TS]

  process this stuff you know this is one [TS]

  last thing I wild passion while such a [TS]

  great character there is some an essay [TS]

  he wrote on time called the soul of man [TS]

  under socialism was it that the artists [TS]

  creative but there's one where he wrote [TS]

  about how after the impression is you [TS]

  never see water the same way again and i [TS]

  happen to think that's true [TS]

  once you've really seen a giant is Monet [TS]

  at you know at MoMA or something you [TS]

  don't water looks like an impressionist [TS]

  painting now any part of the role side [TS]

  of Babel but the part of the role of of [TS]

  art has always been to help you reshape [TS]

  the way that you see things and you're [TS]

  not going to fundamentally have an [TS]

  impact with people if you're mainly [TS]

  trying to iterate on something that [TS]

  you won't be too jarring to people [TS]

  that's to accept that you'll never see [TS]

  water the same way again after you've [TS]

  seen the impressionist but there was [TS]

  only one time in history where one [TS]

  minute there were no Impressionists [TS]

  and then there were right and and Oscar [TS]

  was was there for that now we are we're [TS]

  taking to see impressionist paintings in [TS]

  museums when we were five years old on [TS]

  kindergarten tours and so for us [TS]

  personally in a lot of ways there never [TS]

  was a time that we did that we saw water [TS]

  without also knowing about the [TS]

  Impressionists and the impressionistic [TS]

  painting of water ultimately are now we [TS]

  see them as as the you know kind of a [TS]

  close-up as a used as a backdrop for a [TS]

  coca-cola ad or whatever and and the [TS]

  impact of those things and the amazement [TS]

  that that's absolutely still possible [TS]

  but it requires more work you don't just [TS]

  you don't just get introduced to it and [TS]

  sit there and have your mind blown [TS]

  anymore you have to have to stare at it [TS]

  and go back to a place where your mind [TS]

  is capable of being blown in order to [TS]

  have it be blown again because you're i [TS]

  can just you know can can see this stuff [TS]

  just as as a wallpaper [TS]

  I I'll just beginning to shop i went [TS]

  with a good friend of mine the musician [TS]

  John Wesley Harding who is also the [TS]

  novelist Wesley Stace he took me to the [TS]

  philadelphia museum of our collection of [TS]

  tea shop stuff earlier this year and I [TS]

  spent it took me a half an hour just [TS]

  being in the presence of the work to [TS]

  reset my brain so that i could even look [TS]

  at it without without just seeing it as [TS]

  all the things that were derived from [TS]

  meant without seeing it as as just a [TS]

  bunch of construction paper or just [TS]

  somebody like trying out some ideas I [TS]

  mean I had to sit with it and this is [TS]

  too i think of any art [TS]

  frankly yeah that's definitely true love [TS]

  of paintings and I think it's really [TS]

  true of poetry with it out and my twenty [TS]

  century painting teacher best class I [TS]

  took in college really got got this [TS]

  through me when she put these slides up [TS]

  and she'd say okay this helen [TS]

  frankenthaler color field thing you're [TS]

  looking at is really faded on this old [TS]

  slide but if you when you see one of [TS]

  these important like when you see your [TS]

  first then go and you see the impasto [TS]

  and you see there's like almost half an [TS]

  inch of paint at some points you get all [TS]

  my gosh this guy really this guy was [TS]

  really had a lot going on this is more [TS]

  than just a blue and yellow thing of a [TS]

  field like this is this is you can [TS]

  really see this guy's soul when these [TS]

  little pointy bits of paint and with [TS]

  poetry like hearing Richard Hugo you [TS]

  know three degrees of grain phillipsburg [TS]

  is really different than scanning it on [TS]

  tumblr page it's very very different [TS]

  well but so now extend that extend that [TS]

  to a to some indie rock music that took [TS]

  three years to write and record and you [TS]

  know imagine how many people are gonna [TS]

  rip it into their itunes and give it [TS]

  even 1000 that much attention you know [TS]

  clear mind put it on not be listening to [TS]

  a water surfing the internet not be [TS]

  hosting two while they're doing [TS]

  conditions at the jump in here i was at [TS]

  your house is the area where your mom's [TS]

  house I remember sitting in the dining [TS]

  room and you're like okay like I've done [TS]

  before [TS]

  I'm gonna let you listen to this I'm [TS]

  gonna let you listen to these are these [TS]

  are that I I think someone was one was [TS]

  on his departure and teaspoon what what [TS]

  era was a teaspoon that would have been [TS]

  too early 2006 case we sit down you've [TS]

  got like a CD or something and we sit [TS]

  down and every single time you've been [TS]

  very generous letting me as I've you [TS]

  send me stuff that's not out that i love [TS]

  and like you would get so pissed that I [TS]

  would not like you just sit and [TS]

  literally just listen to the music now [TS]

  is close either down yes [TS]

  yes absolutely and I've done with you [TS]

  I've really gotta listen to this you'll [TS]

  turn off the TV like doing anything and [TS]

  all I can hear is a little bit from that [TS]

  leads me to believe from the headphones [TS]

  and you breathing very very loudly one I [TS]

  don't know if you know you do that very [TS]

  very loudly but and you sit there and a [TS]

  hundred percent of your attention goes [TS]

  to that and I'm just thinking when [TS]

  you're committing something like the [TS]

  commander thinks aloud to to tape to too [TS]

  hard drive like you must you really are [TS]

  thinking I have to guess about some [TS]

  version of you sitting there with the [TS]

  headphones on breathing heavily and [TS]

  really focusing a hundred percent and [TS]

  that'sthat's what you make though you're [TS]

  not making like you're not making stuff [TS]

  for somebody to listen to once on a jog [TS]

  and a shuffle you're trying to create [TS]

  some projecting here but actually that [TS]

  that's a big part of what you do when [TS]

  I'm sitting in the studio I'm absolutely [TS]

  making the music for the person that is [TS]

  either sitting in a dark room with their [TS]

  headphones on listening to with their [TS]

  eyes closed or driving in a car with the [TS]

  stereo on super loud driving through [TS]

  some vineyards in Northern California [TS]

  and those are the character wonder it [TS]

  takes you so long to put out a record [TS]

  high collide good for the finger people [TS]

  but as a and that's right my people but [TS]

  as a as a writer the feedback I get from [TS]

  people is oh my god I for the last three [TS]

  weeks every time I get on the [TS]

  stairmaster my itunes brings up one of [TS]

  your tunes and so I started thinking of [TS]

  you guys is like my Stairmaster band and [TS]

  that is so awesome now i love you guys [TS]

  that such a giant compliment though John [TS]

  it's a massive compliment i don't i [TS]

  don't take it as a I don't take it the [TS]

  wrong way at all but but it's so it's so [TS]

  it's not how my life I not how I consume [TS]

  things that i love or meter media back [TS]

  on that I have to just let that be I [TS]

  can't I can't I because i cannot find an [TS]

  entry point for myself into that like [TS]

  your Stairmaster band cool [TS]

  my mind wasn't my was always interval [TS]

  was your Stairmaster band will that when [TS]

  they first put out that bright lights [TS]

  record [TS]

  that was and I was exercising for the [TS]

  very short window of time is always [TS]

  interval you know I open for those guys [TS]

  once and they were dicks [TS]

  yeah that's really not that surprising [TS]

  to me this is what it was a long time [TS]

  ago they were young they might be really [TS]

  nice guys now they were total dicks they [TS]

  were they seriously were like had their [TS]

  manager come and say that bowl of corn [TS]

  chips is Interpol's bowl of corn chips [TS]

  so can you guys stop eating those corn [TS]

  too well they changed a lot i used to [TS]

  like a lot better when they're called [TS]

  joy division that was staying with Peter [TS]

  Hook and it's played out but um I'm [TS]

  trying to I'm trying to find the thread [TS]

  and the opportunity to jump and jump [TS]

  around a little bit in mind let's just [TS]

  jump but don't find a thread just leap [TS]

  into the world I'm trying John I know [TS]

  you find me scattered I know other [TS]

  people find scattered and and I I don't [TS]

  always get this opportunity with you [TS]

  we've talked before about how we need to [TS]

  do is what is that what is that [TS]

  that's my that's my little bell and i [TS]

  keep on my desk so that when I need to [TS]

  reset i go and then it's alright yeah [TS]

  you know really not having this one if I [TS]

  really need a recess totally different [TS]

  ads but i have no I have no context for [TS]

  wrapping my head around any of your bell [TS]

  related activity this sounds completely [TS]

  at odds [TS]

  titre oh that sounded like could you [TS]

  please check me into this small motel [TS]

  that's right that's right how many does [TS]

  he have on your desk rodder uh on my [TS]

  desk right now i just have those two [TS]

  bells but around the house i have [TS]

  probably 40 bills [TS]

  nope no no that's just hasn't been on a [TS]

  glass it's a pencil on an incredible [TS]

  hulk glass good job next question let's [TS]

  go to lightning round [TS]

  gosh so much I want to talk to you about [TS]

  we we talked up a lot we gonna start [TS]

  this from my dog the dark my dear for [TS]

  podcast we still got to do this roderick [TS]

  online it's just you me talking on the [TS]

  phone once a week we put it out we got [TS]

  to do this are we doing that right now [TS]

  well this is a year on that you're on a [TS]

  podcast that idea right now and so this [TS]

  is not precisely that we're going to do [TS]

  a different podcast where we do the same [TS]

  thing [TS]

  eventually everyone will have several [TS]

  podcasts I think eventually I'm excited [TS]

  about i did a podcast the other day [TS]

  really did you make a pod did [TS]

  did you make an RSS was somebody else's [TS]

  part i did make an RSS can ask his [TS]

  partner on i did an online haha i had a [TS]

  pretty good online this morning [TS]

  yeah a lot of God listening I i like i [TS]

  like doing on lines it was a podcast [TS]

  called the air-raid young guy in Iraq I [TS]

  up here in Seattle asked me to come to [TS]

  his podcast and takes a long time he had [TS]

  it set up in such a way that every time [TS]

  you move your chair the microphone would [TS]

  vibrate for like 30 seconds a shock [TS]

  mount and a shocking on anything we had [TS]

  a shock mounting and then he Mount heat [TS]

  so the mic is on a shock mount and then [TS]

  he mounted the shock mount to the table [TS]

  that we were both sitting at so if you [TS]

  if you if you took if you hit the table [TS]

  with your hand it it just it vibrated [TS]

  through the whole system i was like did [TS]

  you think about mounting that to [TS]

  something else i am a senior picture my [TS]

  setup I've got a unit that rode [TS]

  podcaster shockmount it's on one of [TS]

  those little like a little crappy ones [TS]

  you would you like to make a kick drum [TS]

  mic with a really heavy bass with a [TS]

  little short and hit your table right [TS]

  now with your hand okay okay so you can [TS]

  hear the tale but I think you putting [TS]

  them through the mic at all okay and [TS]

  then the thing is here's the real [TS]

  tricking ok so this is as i've posted [TS]

  before this is sitting on top to get a [TS]

  page count here it's sitting on top of [TS]

  the giant-size x-men a book it's a [TS]

  chance on a two-and-a-half-inch book [TS]

  from the classic period of of the x-men [TS]

  and I think that happen during to your [TS]

  audience right now i'm not i haven't [TS]

  read the whole thing but it it sets i [TS]

  think a lot of the vibrations [TS]

  um yeah I have my speakers my monitor [TS]

  speakers in my studio sitting on top of [TS]

  both of them are on top of stacks of [TS]

  beetles books books about the Beatles [TS]

  that is I can't get enough for this you [TS]

  know what one of those cash [TS]

  right on top how did you know that i'm [TS]

  on topic I now as you know that that's [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  mhm on the other let me guess there's a [TS]

  post-it note above your desk that has [TS]

  written on in sharpie on topic ! ! i [TS]

  have incredibly chaotic drawings by my [TS]

  daughter that's all [TS]

  knock over my over my desk I just keep I [TS]

  stare at them and hope you'll get better [TS]

  someday I wanna be better that whole [TS]

  business about you know about kids being [TS]

  natural artists and and the art the [TS]

  artistic impulses beat out of them by [TS]

  our by our patreon patriarchal society [TS]

  left the kids are terrible artist [TS]

  yes and making art is hard work and and [TS]

  if you're listening to this and you have [TS]

  a kid who um i would describe would [TS]

  discourage them not an obvious way not a [TS]

  mean way but in a very subtle way [TS]

  yeah i would just go don't discourage [TS]

  them because you want better for them [TS]

  than the life of an artist now [TS]

  discourage them so that they get out of [TS]

  the way of actual artists who are [TS]

  working hard [TS]

  you're saying it's a single signal noise [TS]

  problem i think it is [TS]

  yeah I this there's a noise I make a lot [TS]

  of my daughter seems like a little you [TS]

  know it's funny our kid goes to a pretty [TS]

  cool [TS]

  that's very cool preschool little co-op [TS]

  we with you and she is run by Jewish [TS]

  people know it's not and it's also not [TS]

  run by hippies and it's not run by [TS]

  cultus which is different from almost [TS]

  every preschool up into like most of the [TS]

  preschools they want you like read a [TS]

  book was very interesting you know when [TS]

  the children would have been the same [TS]

  swing we let them talk about it and then [TS]

  we write their names on a list and now [TS]

  shut up [TS]

  this place is very sensible but you know [TS]

  it's funny when you guys in there my [TS]

  work day and I saw this thing on the [TS]

  wall and like so many great things in my [TS]

  life first I was angry and then I [TS]

  thought it was awesome and it was this [TS]

  big thing and admittedly a little hippie [TS]

  and it's like something how to talk to [TS]

  your kids about their thing they're [TS]

  drawing their art or whatever and at [TS]

  first i was like all like because it was [TS]

  so antithetical to how I've been doing [TS]

  cuz i'm i'm totally that oh my god [TS]

  that's awesome that's great oh my gosh [TS]

  is that looks just as a face it looks [TS]

  like is that Mommy or whatever it is I [TS]

  used to do that and no no no we're still [TS]

  she go [TS]

  yeah oh right so here's the thing and I [TS]

  don't know if you we will find this [TS]

  useful with your youngster but I I what [TS]

  it said was instead but don't take a [TS]

  minute first of all take a minute and [TS]

  look at it and and do not jump right [TS]

  into making a remark about what it [TS]

  cortical is let alone making a value [TS]

  judgment but let you say that wow that's [TS]

  really cool you made a bunch of red [TS]

  lines there and they're not encourage [TS]

  them to talk at first I thought that was [TS]

  really happy and dumb but I've decided [TS]

  that that's actually a good idea because [TS]

  because sometimes kids just scribbling [TS]

  you know [TS]

  no it's a good so I think it's an [TS]

  incredible idea i mean III actually try [TS]

  really hard and this is a weird thing to [TS]

  say but I try really hard not to say [TS]

  good good hair about that i'm terry i do [TS]

  that all the time because you know what [TS]

  to do she needed you know I mean I [TS]

  understand there's a thousand people [TS]

  right now [TS]

  composing angry emails to you saying you [TS]

  need to say good to your kid but but i [TS]

  think the i think actually John the [TS]

  conventional wisdom is increasingly to [TS]

  not do that [TS]

  yeah and you know but you can go too far [TS]

  as I reckon you're just encourage the [TS]

  effort obviously encourage the effort [TS]

  yeah and there's so many ways that that [TS]

  my kid knows that I approve of her that [TS]

  you know to have to do and it feels like [TS]

  it's just a reflexive action like good [TS]

  good god you don't worry about I worry [TS]

  about raising a kid that just worries [TS]

  about trying to please me as much as I [TS]

  am incredibly self-involved I worry that [TS]

  when i do that it's like me so much [TS]

  going to crush her artistic ambitions [TS]

  like she's gonna do whatever she does [TS]

  but I do worry about her thinking the [TS]

  only yardstick for that is like whether [TS]

  other people thought was good right [TS]

  right well yeah exactly i think i think [TS]

  one of the things that I that I [TS]

  appreciate most about my parents and [TS]

  particularly my mother was that when [TS]

  when i was working on something like art [TS]

  something artistically you know she [TS]

  would back out of the room and close the [TS]

  door [TS]

  um there wasn't she didn't sit there and [TS]

  say what are you doing now [TS]

  well what is that is that a tree I mean [TS]

  she didn't do any of that and when I was [TS]

  done she put it up on the refrigerator [TS]

  but it but they're there wasn't a she [TS]

  she recognized that that was not [TS]

  necessarily another opportunity for for [TS]

  parent-child interaction becomes [TS]

  actually it was your thing that was what [TS]

  i was doing and I was fine you know like [TS]

  like let it ride [TS]

  this is a new segment I call bizarro [TS]

  Marcia Roderick theater are you ready [TS]

  yeah jon jon is that about a Space [TS]

  Shuttle crash Oh said about the [TS]

  challenger or the I get mixed up is it [TS]

  does the Challenger right what the [TS]

  commander thinks aloud is it's more i [TS]

  actually had to google this because I [TS]

  wasn't even sure which is which but your [TS]

  little younger than me [TS]

  that was what about the without about [TS]

  the Columbia the Challenger would you [TS]

  say um the you can see if you're [TS]

  comfortable talking about it i'm talking [TS]

  about you see now first of all you're [TS]

  listening to John Roderick who I will [TS]

  never admit is my favorite song right [TS]

  owners today because he's a dick [TS]

  yeah you don't want to tell me that [TS]

  nobody like can I come stay with you [TS]

  examine cisco for free for several weeks [TS]

  Maryland oh my god is that so hard and I [TS]

  would love it if your mom would take [TS]

  care of our stupid daughter and you just [TS]

  come and hang out with me again i miss [TS]

  it no one's [TS]

  it no one's [TS]

  the moment that's what we should do we [TS]

  should put both of our daughters in a [TS]

  little box is it in my mom's living room [TS]

  not a me knocks on iceboxx miss my mom [TS]

  has nice boxes and mom so practical i [TS]

  love your mom she said she says straight [TS]

  and even talked about before when she [TS]

  talks about how much he loves your kid [TS]

  she's very very you know buried we have [TS]

  a visit when i accidentally called her [TS]

  number instead of yours and she was so [TS]

  she seems really happy but she's also [TS]

  really like yep she's still her she's [TS]

  still very practical [TS]

  mmm yeah she has a room in the basement [TS]

  for where she keeps the good boxes like [TS]

  friends kids in trouble with my wife for [TS]

  keeping what I call quote-unquote good [TS]

  boxes you brought out that's a good box [TS]

  you doing that's a perfectly good bog it [TS]

  down would we be going to personally [TS]

  talk a little bit about these things [TS]

  I don't know so it is that the song was [TS]

  about the coladas space shuttle Columbia [TS]

  which is one of two space shuttles that [TS]

  crashed the other one being the [TS]

  Challenger but the columbia is the one [TS]

  that disintegrated on re-entry [TS]

  whereas the Challenger is the one that [TS]

  disintegrated shortly after launch right [TS]

  and uh so yeah I've had very very [TS]

  interesting your relationship to this [TS]

  song just recently I mean I it was one [TS]

  of those songs you get lucky sometimes [TS]

  that you write a song that has the has [TS]

  the capacity to make you cry multiple [TS]

  times as you're performing it you know [TS]

  and and I know that the all songwriters [TS]

  coming there's one or two songs in their [TS]

  repertoire that if they really dig into [TS]

  it while they're performing it they can [TS]

  they can get it can make them very [TS]

  emotional like it does the crowd but it [TS]

  is for people who have not been with you [TS]

  since the very beginning people i [TS]

  encounter it's it's a lot of people's [TS]

  favorite long winter Sun yeah and and i [TS]

  understand that I it's a it's somewhat [TS]

  atypical of a long winter song and that [TS]

  it doesn't have any guitars on it and [TS]

  it's a have literally three quarts [TS]

  inside the same looks like a 10 point [TS]

  forward 15 for the whole step 46 minutes [TS]

  long but uh and and it's a typical of a [TS]

  long winter [TS]

  song in that it's about a real event [TS]

  that's that was on the news [TS]

  what about a specific like a specific [TS]

  real-world thing it seems that's not [TS]

  your wheelhouse not normally but this [TS]

  was this was a song I you know that the [TS]

  normally what I do is I i use metaphor [TS]

  to take us take small personal events [TS]

  and turn them into bigger things that we [TS]

  can use to talk about talk about real [TS]

  feelings you know and and that's what [TS]

  metaphor is so good at you can you can [TS]

  say well that that that girl stepped on [TS]

  my toe and if I wrote a song was like [TS]

  that girl stepped on my toe [TS]

  it would it would be a jack black song [TS]

  first of all but it would be not a very [TS]

  interesting song for the long haul but [TS]

  so you see utilize metaphor and you turn [TS]

  your you know you turn the girl into the [TS]

  Hungarians and you turn your toe into [TS]

  the the great you know the but not and [TS]

  the great steppes of Central Europe and [TS]

  all of a sudden you're writing a song [TS]

  that sounds very big and and it's coming [TS]

  from a place that's very small the [TS]

  Columbia was an event that was actual [TS]

  and big and you couldn't metaphor eyes [TS]

  it you know though there was nothing you [TS]

  could you couldn't you couldn't use a [TS]

  metaphor because any metaphor you would [TS]

  use would be smaller than the actual [TS]

  thing and as I was writing a song i [TS]

  realized that you could that the [TS]

  Columbia was an actual event that you [TS]

  could you could both talk about it in [TS]

  really small discreet discreet little [TS]

  scenes and it also it functioned as a [TS]

  kind of reverse metaphor like you know [TS]

  what happened to them on that spaceship [TS]

  and how that special crash affected us [TS]

  all it it in little ways was like a [TS]

  relationship breaking up or like you [TS]

  know like one person's life kinda [TS]

  seen from beginning to end so it was it [TS]

  was it was sort of a reverse of what [TS]

  what normal songwriting would look like [TS]

  yeah and the absolutely and that chorus [TS]

  is is so memorable [TS]

  whatever those letters five or six words [TS]

  of the chorus but what else is there is [TS]

  a one-line something like there's no [TS]

  words in the corner just goes yeah what [TS]

  do you want me also when I thought you [TS]

  called Dakota like we have the coda [TS]

  right I'm sorry and music guy like you [TS]

  like you know anything about you know [TS]

  anything about music [TS]

  um but the part the part that always [TS]

  gets me is the something like can you [TS]

  feel that we're almost home [TS]

  something like that which is like it's [TS]

  just so like this whatever i'm going on [TS]

  chris farley better if it works on a lot [TS]

  of levels and also just that whole idea [TS]

  of this time when when America was so [TS]

  full of hope because of that possibility [TS]

  of actually going from a john kennedy [TS]

  speech to being on the moon in such a [TS]

  unbelievably small amount of time and [TS]

  all the like weird things on this [TS]

  timeline that they were able to hit to [TS]

  make that happen and then bring people [TS]

  back alive from space [TS]

  it's online i don't want to over analyze [TS]

  but it works on so many levels as a as a [TS]

  tragedy about so many things and you [TS]

  know not least of which is like gosh you [TS]

  can go and do this most amazing thing in [TS]

  the world but like you're still you can [TS]

  be so close and then it just was part [TS]

  yeah well I because I and i think that's [TS]

  it it it's rooted in the argument that [TS]

  people use to justify space travel which [TS]

  is that human beings are natural [TS]

  explorers and if we are exploring and [TS]

  and reaching out into into whatever the [TS]

  next realm is then we're not fulfilling [TS]

  our our destiny and and the reverse of [TS]

  that is that it is encoded in us all to [TS]

  to recognize and empathize with somebody [TS]

  who has left the village and is and has [TS]

  been out you know to the oregon coast or [TS]

  has been has walked two across Africa or [TS]

  you know have fat found Stanley in the [TS]

  jungle or whatever we can we can relate [TS]

  to that person and the idea that that [TS]

  person would be stepping off [TS]

  the train in their hometown and fall and [TS]

  get run over by the train while their [TS]

  wife and kids were standing there after [TS]

  having been gone after having you know [TS]

  who traveled with Lewis and Clark is is [TS]

  a kind of tragedy that certainly has [TS]

  happened a million times in in human [TS]

  history and it's a it's something we all [TS]

  feel very personally about you know so [TS]

  so you would think that writing a song [TS]

  about astronauts would be hard for [TS]

  people to to identify with but in fact [TS]

  what they were doing was was incredibly [TS]

  human and and in a little in a [TS]

  small-scale way applies to each of us at [TS]

  week every time we leave the house and [TS]

  go to work and make it home and that's [TS]

  what art is its metaphor it sound what's [TS]

  the word my teachers to use its [TS]

  metaphysical distance I guess somebody [TS]

  wrote a song that was like I'm so sad [TS]

  that the shuttle crashed like that would [TS]

  not only have so much longevity but the [TS]

  fact that you have struck down a little [TS]

  bit but it's funny because it's like so [TS]

  many of your songs i don't think you've [TS]

  had to educate me on what they're about [TS]

  and I've listened to them a lot [TS]

  sometimes just listening to them a [TS]

  couple times but it's always really [TS]

  interesting to me because you're and I [TS]

  think one of the reasons you come across [TS]

  some interesting a lot of people is that [TS]

  you are you do fake it pretty well as a [TS]

  polymath and but you are like somebody [TS]

  who is that incredible chemistry c can i [TS]

  get that looked at [TS]

  I you also are clearly a match the [TS]

  student of history but you seem like [TS]

  you're always kind of you you're very [TS]

  knowledgeable about history that wasn't [TS]

  your major that was like your we know in [TS]

  your English literature was comparative [TS]

  history of ideas all that is those that [TS]

  free program meetup right yeah so it has [TS]

  the word history in it but it it but [TS]

  history is is just a component of it [TS]

  yeah but I'm an amateur historian sure [TS]

  yeah and anna and i enjoyed I and I feel [TS]

  like history is and isn't it a shame now [TS]

  how I a slight side route it's just such [TS]

  a shame that I feel really jipped about [TS]

  how I learn history and I guess this is [TS]

  kind of a cliché or whatever but it's [TS]

  there's a couple topics now that I'm [TS]

  really super interested in that I'm [TS]

  embarrassed how poorly I absorbed it and [TS]

  I have to at least partly blame it on [TS]

  the way that it was taught and into [TS]

  example to jump to mind are mathematics [TS]

  and history [TS]

  yeah which I think at least in the way [TS]

  that I learned it I mean I'm not the [TS]

  sharpest knife in the drawer but like in [TS]

  both cases it's amazing that you can [TS]

  take something as interesting as [TS]

  European history and turn it into things [TS]

  like you know memorizing what date the [TS]

  treaty of versailles was without [TS]

  understanding like what that really [TS]

  meant truly any history what you know [TS]

  what the treaty of versailles meant [TS]

  looking backwards and especially looking [TS]

  forward there's not many more [TS]

  interesting topics the right right [TS]

  absolutely retrospect I just remember [TS]

  like what I think they would they signed [TS]

  on train or something like I don't [TS]

  remember I don't know didn't pick up the [TS]

  end of the Civil War II have one Hitler [TS]

  had no actually they did sign on a train [TS]

  car and then Hitler used that same train [TS]

  bar 21 France capitulated to him and I [TS]

  can skate he really was he talking about [TS]

  a master of metaphor [TS]

  mhm oh yeah now we're talking about [TS]

  Hitler and I'm gonna get any letters in [TS]

  Israel happens every time I i think that [TS]

  i think that's true of everybody you [TS]

  know I I didn't learn history in high [TS]

  school and and high school actually [TS]

  deprived me of what had up to then been [TS]

  a lifetime love mathematics you know I [TS]

  started ninth-grade thinking that [TS]

  thinking and having been kind of [TS]

  reinforced in the belief that i was a [TS]

  math whiz and by the end of tenth grade [TS]

  I I wanted absolutely nothing to do with [TS]

  math and and history and civics and I [TS]

  mean really what's more interesting than [TS]

  physics physics taught by by a great [TS]

  teacher is it should this whole reason [TS]

  for school and physics thought by a [TS]

  terrible teacher is limping waterboarded [TS]

  so I mean you know we could talk all for [TS]

  the rest of our lives about education [TS]

  and how we were wronged by the [TS]

  by the fifties textbooks that we're [TS]

  still being used in the seventies when [TS]

  we were going to elementary school and I [TS]

  don't think it's any better now I [TS]

  honestly don't [TS]

  haha i kinda doubt it i mean in stock [TS]

  but you know it i've got this is true [TS]

  but I've heard it said that the only [TS]

  reason anybody really really dies is [TS]

  because of a lack of oxygen like every [TS]

  way that you whether you got stay out of [TS]

  waterboarding no no could be but every [TS]

  way that you that is the cause of your [TS]

  death it's the real reason that you [TS]

  eventually die is because of a lack of [TS]

  oxygen that's ultimately the thing that [TS]

  really eventually kills you supposedly [TS]

  but that's the you know the actual cause [TS]

  of death of every investor but and in [TS]

  the same way i've heard that really yeah [TS]

  I've heard some people say that the the [TS]

  everything is physics that when you [TS]

  really get down to it almost everything [TS]

  goes on is some kind of an abstraction [TS]

  of physics which i think is a really [TS]

  interesting idea and that was obviously [TS]

  physics itself combines you know [TS]

  different disciplines but I i see now [TS]

  mean I'm like the armchair engineer i [TS]

  don't know a thing about physics [TS]

  I never have physics and geometry was a [TS]

  senior i mean you could meet a more [TS]

  lamentable math idiot than me but now [TS]

  like whatever it says stuff like [TS]

  fractals and you know set theory and all [TS]

  this stuff is I have no idea what any of [TS]

  it means but I can tell if I hatch the [TS]

  basic but basic skills that like I would [TS]

  get a lot of that [TS]

  that bums me out I think you can take [TS]

  classes online if you like you like [TS]

  online and holding a Phoenix University [TS]

  type situation well actually I think [TS]

  there are classes by eminent Yale [TS]

  professors that have been uploaded to [TS]

  the interweb and you can just watch them [TS]

  and you that iTunes University is [TS]

  actually pretty great there's there's a [TS]

  bunch of good stuff in there free stuff [TS]

  let's get stuff from Stanford and things [TS]

  like that they i took a physics class in [TS]

  college that was taught by one of that [TS]

  physicists from hanford which is the big [TS]

  you know the big nuclear reservation [TS]

  where they made the atom bomb here in [TS]

  Washington State [TS]

  Wow and this guy you know he was a real [TS]

  he was a refinement type of character [TS]

  you know this just brilliant [TS]

  physicist who had who had been boots on [TS]

  the ground hands up to his elbows in [TS]

  practical physics for his whole career [TS]

  and now was teaching at the University [TS]

  just because he loved it and he would [TS]

  run around that class and climb up on [TS]

  tables and and it was one of the best [TS]

  classes I ever took and it had instilled [TS]

  in me a lifelong love of physics which [TS]

  in high school I got an F in physics [TS]

  because my high school physics teacher [TS]

  was some ding dong that that didn't know [TS]

  any physics herself she was just you [TS]

  know she would I think read the book on [TS]

  her way to school in the morning and I'm [TS]

  like she needed the teachers edition [TS]

  yeah well she's teaching out of it you [TS]

  know and and doing these kind of dumb [TS]

  these dumb it like okay here's a slinky [TS]

  now we're going to hit one into the [TS]

  slinky and you're gonna see the wave and [TS]

  it's like yeah I get it [TS]

  I've used a slinky let's get on with it [TS]

  no but but I took a college physics [TS]

  class that was the greatest thing I ever [TS]

  did I was terrified going and I was like [TS]

  this is gonna be awful and this guy [TS]

  walks in and and from the first second [TS]

  heat picked up a piece of chalk I was [TS]

  like oh it matters who your teacher haha [TS]

  right so that brings us to the topic of [TS]

  homeschooling well well well well which [TS]

  i have to sue want to hide i have to [TS]

  assume you're a major proponent of and I [TS]

  am too and I suggest we start us a [TS]

  charter school miller i would love to be [TS]

  taught at a charter school i'm ready i'm [TS]

  ready to learn [TS]

  would you teach and a charter school I [TS]

  don't know what I would teach at a [TS]

  charter school I mean except no [TS]

  misquoting misquoting literature [TS]

  what about productivity as i'll be a [TS]

  hell of a charter you know I 2222 [TS]

  somewhat related things first i'll never [TS]

  tell you that my arm [TS]

  you know which one was it now I'm [TS]

  getting confused my on my chemistry [TS]

  teacher in high school every day she was [TS]

  a finalist for the Challenger [TS]

  oh really yeah yeah I mean she's on the [TS]

  news that night because this is a year [TS]

  after I graduated I was living at my [TS]

  mom's house just eating a half mile away [TS]

  and like she was out on the lawn at the [TS]

  school with everybody else watching this [TS]

  because you know she was a big deal is a [TS]

  big deal she was a finalist for this and [TS]

  you know very very uh [TS]

  taciturn woman very you know quiet kept [TS]

  to herself sort of person and she yes [TS]

  she was there and just watched it [TS]

  imagine that imagine like talk about the [TS]

  ultimate like that that could have been [TS]

  me kind of thing [TS]

  well other one is a metal just before [TS]

  but this i don't know this seems to say [TS]

  something about something when I was in [TS]

  college you know what does screen [TS]

  liberal arts school and did mostly like [TS]

  you know literature short story poems [TS]

  novels whatever all that kind of [TS]

  nonsense reread the ambassador's or [TS]

  whatever but i'm on a whim i took a with [TS]

  these call physics for poets called [TS]

  nature of modern physics was talking a [TS]

  physics teacher but basically you read [TS]

  off Baker you read you know Einstein [TS]

  Yuri keep i read Gary Zhukov from the [TS]

  dancing Willie masters and all that [TS]

  nonsense but but the thing that's [TS]

  interesting about this is is I've said [TS]

  this in other places before but there's [TS]

  something to this i think the teacher [TS]

  was from I think hungry is really seem [TS]

  like a weird guy to me and you get good [TS]

  teacher but you know what's funny is my [TS]

  second or third promised me my second [TS]

  you're stuck in here and you know like a [TS]

  lot of people I really thought I was a [TS]

  great writer you know I was the features [TS]

  editor in high school so obviously i [TS]

  must universally yeah you don't get a [TS]

  position like that without being an [TS]

  outstanding writer for top-shelf yes [TS]

  funny though I would when I I turned in [TS]

  my first paper and it was the most well [TS]

  i gotta say my I had one vonnegut paper [TS]

  my first year where Mac Miller said down [TS]

  there forget he said that this part [TS]

  isn't this Park curiously like whipping [TS]

  a dead mule with misplaced rhetoric and [TS]

  will always stick with me but this [TS]

  physics teacher he toured a party tour [TS]

  my paper isn't a scene from back to [TS]

  school starting Roger Rodney Dangerfield [TS]

  Kirby hires kurt vonnegut yes exactly i [TS]

  have told you that story wasn't gonna [TS]

  get story but Peter Peter Kay sacks i [TS]

  think his name was torn apart be torn [TS]

  apart and he said you know there's all [TS]

  kinds of problems with this there's no [TS]

  grammatical problems there's the [TS]

  structure most of those things like the [TS]

  structure and the actual you know [TS]

  building a case the right the the [TS]

  writing he said it wasn't good and he [TS]

  suggested of all things he suggested I [TS]

  go to this staff member who was the [TS]

  writing instructor like she wasn't it [TS]

  was so ridiculous that she wasn't [TS]

  treated more seriously but you gotta go [TS]

  see general wheeler you're gonna go see [TS]

  her and you're gonna you should go and [TS]

  get some help with your writing and I [TS]

  was I was speechless I was like you got [TS]

  don't you know like who i am like I'm [TS]

  but you know what's funny i john is only [TS]

  the service of saying I land and yeah [TS]

  ended up taking that as a class i got a [TS]

  credit you know for taking out of class [TS]

  and sheep she just really with me into [TS]

  shape [TS]

  did make a great rider but maybe less [TS]

  crappy writer but it's interesting to me [TS]

  that I don't know if it was I think that [TS]

  was probably the severus lashing i ever [TS]

  got from my writing in college and it [TS]

  came from a physics teacher maybe other [TS]

  ones are just being too nice for [TS]

  something but like it wasn't my stuff [TS]

  about Raymond Carver that wasn't my [TS]

  stuff about Robert Lowell it was my [TS]

  stuff about you know I quantum theory [TS]

  right and I don't know is that seems [TS]

  really struggling i think there was [TS]

  actually a great quote wanna get it [TS]

  somewhere I'd said that if you wanna [TS]

  find the best riders at Cornell [TS]

  University don't go to the English [TS]

  department you know right science [TS]

  department that's not that I mean like [TS]

  that then that helped me so much and I [TS]

  you know I still she made me read [TS]

  structure of white which I hadn't read [TS]

  since high school but she also made me [TS]

  read this great book called Williams [TS]

  answers wins or book called on writing [TS]

  well yeah I have it right here in [TS]

  economy and I is it was just so [TS]

  interesting because of all the [TS]

  educational stuff like all the stuff i [TS]

  thought it was gonna learn in college [TS]

  classes I took was weird how all this [TS]

  stuff snuck in in places and I never [TS]

  expected I took the 20th century [TS]

  painting on a lark and end up being my [TS]

  favorite thing one of the most memorable [TS]

  to me you know i don't know how much I [TS]

  remember of moby-dick [TS]

  didn't think it was that interesting but [TS]

  what every single class in twenty [TS]

  century painting I was just rapt [TS]

  attention the whole time [TS]

  well I don't understand why why our [TS]

  entire education from kindergarten to [TS]

  graduate school isn't treated that same [TS]

  way because that's absolutely true of [TS]

  everything I learned that I carry with [TS]

  me to this day [TS]

  none of it was on somebody syllabus or [TS]

  or was on the college prep course work [TS]

  or whatever all of it was was found by [TS]

  accident and all of it was I mean during [TS]

  those classes where I was secretly [TS]

  reading a book propped in but it within [TS]

  the pages of the textbook that I was [TS]

  holding up so the teacher thought i was [TS]

  studying when you're actually looking at [TS]

  magazines the the Mad Magazine i was [TS]

  reading within the within my English [TS]

  book is the stuff that that made me who [TS]

  I am it's it's the it's the education I [TS]

  ended up getting and you know my mom [TS]

  again just to go back to my mom I was [TS]

  telling telling this story last night to [TS]

  somebody but uh when I was in 1976 I was [TS]

  eight years old and I had a lot of [TS]

  questions it was the vietnam war had [TS]

  just ended and I was I was aware of that [TS]

  and nixon had been impeached within the [TS]

  a couple of years before and I was aware [TS]

  of that people you know in 1976 God [TS]

  people still talk about Nixon Ford was [TS]

  the president but Carter was running for [TS]

  president when I was aware of all these [TS]

  things and i had a lot of questions [TS]

  about them [TS]

  my mom got me a subscription to Time [TS]

  magazine when it was getting back when [TS]

  Time magazine was a great a great weekly [TS]

  news magazine I mean it was a middlebrow [TS]

  magazine always but but it was it was [TS]

  super well written and super [TS]

  well-researched and Darren a [TS]

  ten-year-old could get a lot out of it [TS]

  perfect for an eight-year-old right and [TS]

  and what one my mom got me the [TS]

  subscription of this magazine what she [TS]

  said was you don't have to read every [TS]

  article if you start to read an article [TS]

  and it doesn't interest you don't read [TS]

  it move on to the next article just read [TS]

  the articles that you that are [TS]

  interesting to you and so [TS]

  there's a lot you know the that first [TS]

  year i got time magazine I didn't read [TS]

  most of the stuff i just i would flip [TS]

  through and look at the pictures and [TS]

  read the captions and there was nobody [TS]

  there reading it over my shoulder there [TS]

  was nobody there trying to read it to me [TS]

  there was nobody there trying to explain [TS]

  it to me [TS]

  I just SAT and looked at the pictures [TS]

  and read the captions and then pretty [TS]

  soon I started reading you know the the [TS]

  feature articles that interested me and [TS]

  and if I if there were cool pictures i [TS]

  would start reading the article 22 put [TS]

  them together by the time I was in sixth [TS]

  grade I was reading time magazine every [TS]

  week and I that had more of enough that [TS]

  had that gave me more of an education [TS]

  and it was almost entirely a process of [TS]

  self-selection that uh that probably [TS]

  from the outside looked like I was being [TS]

  given no guidance and frankly in the [TS]

  seventies there were things in Time [TS]

  magazine that were too sophisticated for [TS]

  me there were there were things that I [TS]

  read and that shocked me because I was [TS]

  being introduced to ideas that were [TS]

  above my pay grade [TS]

  you know that my mom had a subscription [TS]

  and there was one I just want to say 76 [TS]

  77 78 had an excerpt from that Howard [TS]

  Hughes biography the tell-all biography [TS]

  uh-huh that's where I learned he saved [TS]

  his urine and it's still one of the most [TS]

  enduring images in my mind [TS]

  mmm III but you could graze right that [TS]

  was the point is it was nobody in there [TS]

  going to write a report on you know [TS]

  Zimbabwe or something and you pull out [TS]

  the world book encyclopedia and start [TS]

  you know writing your five paragraph [TS]

  essay that grazing I I mean it's funny [TS]

  as much as we serve we surf the web all [TS]

  day but how much do we decide to go [TS]

  settle on this one thing for a while you [TS]

  don't know what I mean well and again [TS]

  Time magazine did not allow me to pursue [TS]

  threads that interested me they [TS]

  presented they presented a dozen threads [TS]

  and I chose the ones that interested me [TS]

  but I i also had to wade through all [TS]

  these ones that didn't and surfing the [TS]

  web is a very different process I mean [TS]

  I I'll do it as i'm sure you do waste [TS]

  four hours on wikipedia just looking [TS]

  through clicking through clicking [TS]

  through but always pursuing the thread [TS]

  that is that is that but you know the [TS]

  closest to the bullseye of my own [TS]

  interests and never never or very seldom [TS]

  do i find myself on a page where I'm [TS]

  like uh that thing you get with [TS]

  magazines when your dentist's office [TS]

  where like there's nothing else here to [TS]

  read so i'm going to read this thing [TS]

  that I don't want to read and you read [TS]

  in you and and you're into something and [TS]

  now you now you know something you [TS]

  wouldn't have known otherwise on the [TS]

  internet I find it's mostly like and [TS]

  then I then then I found out where he [TS]

  went to college and then i looked at the [TS]

  college and then i looked at the dorms [TS]

  in the college and then i looked at the [TS]

  admission process like why am I looking [TS]

  at the admission process for Yale right [TS]

  now like I'm following my own interests [TS]

  but my interests have led me up a [TS]

  smaller and smaller tributary and I'm [TS]

  learning stuff now I'm I'm following my [TS]

  own interest to something with its not [TS]

  producing any food for me so she like a [TS]

  broad but shallow broad but shallow [TS]

  particularly when you're talking about [TS]

  the education of someone from the age of [TS]

  five to fifteen broad but shallow is [TS]

  what they is what they need and that's [TS]

  why that's why those history classes you [TS]

  talk about are so useless that the like [TS]

  learning the dates of the French [TS]

  Revolution mean I've studied the French [TS]

  Revolution up and down and I can't tell [TS]

  you any of the goddamn dates 1789 that's [TS]

  the only date you need to know you know [TS]

  and and when i studied the french [TS]

  revolution in high school and in college [TS]

  I probably had to memorize 10 dates [TS]

  around those events which is a do which [TS]

  is a degree of specificity that that a [TS]

  master's student in the French [TS]

  Revolution probably wouldn't have that [TS]

  ready [TS]

  and what you lose with what you're [TS]

  losing all that though is the story [TS]

  behind the story how did the front where [TS]

  the French Revolution come from where [TS]

  did it go to who is the story and that's [TS]

  the only story that matters and and [TS]

  certainly until you have embarked on a [TS]

  PhD program it's the only story anybody [TS]

  should ever try and tell what is the [TS]

  word of the American Revolution come [TS]

  from and where does it lead to you know [TS]

  where did what where did the nation of [TS]

  Germany come from and where is it now [TS]

  you know these are like topics that if [TS]

  you are history teacher if you are [TS]

  history student this should be when you [TS]

  do you should be sitting indian-style on [TS]

  the floor and talking about this stuff [TS]

  like its storytelling and i don't know i [TS]

  think i think the the six to eight hours [TS]

  that kids spend in school of theirs is [TS]

  four to six hours of keeping them off [TS]

  the streets [TS]

  oh it's like I mean they get to such a [TS]

  cliché but it's true they're learning [TS]

  how to stand in line [TS]

  it's it's really it's something like a [TS]

  socialization institute in a lot of ways [TS]

  and I mean and that if I had a charter [TS]

  school that's what it would be too but [TS]

  you'd be getting socialized in a way [TS]

  different way with ac/dc you'd be [TS]

  getting socialized to respect and fear [TS]

  John Roderick first and foremost sure [TS]

  and I think more people need to learn [TS]

  that a younger young age [TS]

  we're gonna learn eventually and they [TS]

  can save themselves a lot of frustration [TS]

  a lot of hurt but going up against the [TS]

  big man let's be honest or 451 some [TS]

  51-percent of the audience knowing about [TS]

  the sexual chemistry even in a very [TS]

  young age is going to help guide their [TS]

  decision-making on two levels [TS]

  that's right you know I get a lot of [TS]

  light I get a lot of flack for being [TS]

  dick about the morass you wouldn't [TS]

  believe it's roderick I mean like I get [TS]

  really frustrated with the whole like [TS]

  I've gotta follow the headlines I gotta [TS]

  follow the news I gotta go [TS]

  just suck up all this ephemeral [TS]

  information that's been packaged in this [TS]

  these little morsels but you know what's [TS]

  funny is like when I have this argument [TS]

  people i eventually end up falling back [TS]

  on [TS]

  it's not a strategy fall every week [TS]

  sometimes description but I think you [TS]

  could learn more from picking up the [TS]

  economist and reading there whatever 225 [TS]

  platform feeling about Formula three [TS]

  four five pages like the week [TS]

  in review in integration that is a that [TS]

  is one of the best things in all [TS]

  periodicals the that's that first five [TS]

  pages of The Economist man it's a nice i [TS]

  think it's a nice productive but it's [TS]

  kind of a middle ground and what we're [TS]

  talking about here which is that you are [TS]

  I mean let's be honest you pick up a [TS]

  paper any paper there are times you try [TS]

  to look at the new york times after the [TS]

  twentieth of the month whatever you look [TS]

  at that and there's just so much stuff [TS]

  that's been you know shoot up for the [TS]

  news pipe right and but if you pick up [TS]

  that that economist thing it's going to [TS]

  give you the high level on there and a [TS]

  lot of ways but it's it's gonna be about [TS]

  countries you don't know about it's [TS]

  going to be about topics he don't [TS]

  understand and I don't mean to sound [TS]

  like you know eat your beets or anything [TS]

  like that but if you if you really if it [TS]

  is that important to you to keep [TS]

  up-to-date and your version of that is [TS]

  watching the crawl on CNN [TS]

  we're good for damn sure take 20 minutes [TS]

  and read that every week and now you're [TS]

  going to be like a grown-up you're gonna [TS]

  be legitimately up-to-date on what's [TS]

  happening in the world frankly I don't I [TS]

  I dont still care about it but like I [TS]

  don't it doesn't have an impact on me in [TS]

  an actionable way like it does a lot of [TS]

  people pretend it does you know just [TS]

  following like you know celebrity deaths [TS]

  and who's mad about politics this week [TS]

  if you really did that really does [TS]

  matter to you then like why would you [TS]

  like to take the time to do that in a [TS]

  high-quality whey you know and so is my [TS]

  google news or something which is just a [TS]

  morass you have to add an extra 15 [TS]

  minutes to it [TS]

  I i mean i think that's what wikipedia [TS]

  is for you open up the economist you [TS]

  read the first five pages of it in front [TS]

  of your computer and every word you [TS]

  don't understand every idea that comes [TS]

  across your bow that that you're even [TS]

  slightly curious about just wikipedia [TS]

  the term and spend another two minutes [TS]

  reading a little bit deeper on the idea [TS]

  i mean people i mean it's it's the most [TS]

  common thing in the world right now [TS]

  everybody's got an opinion about [TS]

  Palestine the Palestinians and the [TS]

  Israelis and no one has even a you know [TS]

  even a a penny turned on its side [TS]

  worth of depth of understanding of this [TS]

  of of the history of the situation and [TS]

  i'm not saying that understanding the [TS]

  history of the situation helps you know [TS]

  what the solution to the problem is but [TS]

  I think understanding the history of the [TS]

  situation keeps that will it affect [TS]

  effectively tamps down at least my [TS]

  willingness to wade into an argument [TS]

  with every in a bar about the [TS]

  Palestinian situation because you know [TS]

  people are just like I'm like right he [TS]

  your you don't know you don't know [TS]

  anything and and it's not hard that [TS]

  that's the problem that in America now [TS]

  knowing stuff being educated is is so [TS]

  equated in the popular culture with with [TS]

  a kind of elitism and elitism is just [TS]

  completely equated with liberalism and a [TS]

  kind of activist liberalism that wants [TS]

  you to eat your beets and wants to teach [TS]

  sex education to your five-year-old kids [TS]

  and wants to force those kids to become [TS]

  gay have the school nurses to abortions [TS]

  have the school nurses do abortions so [TS]

  so there's this cascading hatred for [TS]

  being informed that that in in one way [TS]

  emotionally I absolutely understand that [TS]

  that the vast majority of people in [TS]

  America I'm so not the majority but [TS]

  fifty percent of the people in America [TS]

  have felt for a long time that there was [TS]

  some smug university administrator at [TS]

  their local high school telling them [TS]

  that they couldn't spank their kids [TS]

  anymore and they resent it and they [TS]

  don't have the they don't have the [TS]

  emotional elasticity to wade into it and [TS]

  and and deal with the gray area they [TS]

  just reject the whole concept that [TS]

  somebody from the from the local [TS]

  university should ever come to them and [TS]

  tell them how to do anything and so you [TS]

  get you get a you get a world of people [TS]

  who resent the idea that there is [TS]

  information that they could have [TS]

  have that would help them clarify their [TS]

  thoughts on topics that matter to them I [TS]

  and it's just it's endlessly frustrating [TS]

  i I'm counting us all the time on [TS]

  twitter I'll send something out like hey [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  why don't you try reading a book of John [TS]

  and i'll get i'll get 15 angry tweets [TS]

  back from people like why don't you stop [TS]

  telling me how to live right it's like [TS]

  I'm just say I'm not telling you how to [TS]

  live man seriously I'm just suggesting [TS]

  that you might like a book to read [TS]

  sometimes [TS]

  no you're not doing that you're trying [TS]

  to take my kids from me and this also i [TS]

  think its effects and stuff we were [TS]

  saying more toward the beginning but [TS]

  there's also just this i hate to make [TS]

  this sound like something all the media [TS]

  pushes this on whoever the media is but [TS]

  there is there is first of all a focus a [TS]

  focus on conflict always because that's [TS]

  a story should be about conflict [TS]

  according to a lot of people but it's [TS]

  also about it's also about just this [TS]

  constant dualistic approach to [TS]

  everything [TS]

  where's conservatives and liberals or [TS]

  does this and that and yeah maybe I'm a [TS]

  contrarian but i think that that is [TS]

  limiting in ways that most of us have [TS]

  never really even completely thought [TS]

  about if we really think about how [TS]

  limiting that is I mean here's the thing [TS]

  things happen in the world and probably [TS]

  run till careful [TS]

  well I'm just saying like maybe I mean [TS]

  there are some things where you could [TS]

  really be no trace the provenance of an [TS]

  action say well that's because a liberal [TS]

  want to do this thing or that's because [TS]

  well that's really I just I feel like [TS]

  that'sthat's like you're incredibly [TS]

  narrow way to see the world instead of [TS]

  having enough of a critical eye to go [TS]

  will know that's just the thing that [TS]

  happened and I'm gonna have a look at it [TS]

  in context with other things instead of [TS]

  constantly trying to square this done [TS]

  your double entry accounting of trying [TS]

  to figure out where weather which one of [TS]

  these tribes this fits into any other [TS]

  our tribes are busy but it's there's [TS]

  maybe there's you know like it like it [TS]

  like I said he's in Israel where you [TS]

  don't have to you know opposing sides [TS]

  have 19 you have these coalition's and I [TS]

  just think in the US this is all [TS]

  is this could be again the narcissism of [TS]

  minor differences were always looking [TS]

  for who we align ourselves with and I [TS]

  think that's fine if you if you if that [TS]

  makes you happy like you can pick what [TS]

  pro wrestler you're really into or [TS]

  whatever but I think it's extremely [TS]

  limiting and trying to see the world [TS]

  clearly to instead of seeing facts and [TS]

  events in and of themselves and and then [TS]

  really square them against the context [TS]

  for what else is happening like that to [TS]

  me is like the the beauty like a liberal [TS]

  arts education teaches you how to wander [TS]

  around a library and then wonder how [TS]

  something might be not what it seems to [TS]

  be I think I think that's a big part of [TS]

  it i guess i just wish that there wasn't [TS]

  always this constant feeling of like who [TS]

  that and culture so and cultures a pro [TS]

  wrestler like when you're getting mad at [TS]

  her you might as well be getting mad at [TS]

  the Iron Sheik she's making an entire [TS]

  career out of making you angry and like [TS]

  why would you why would you keep feeding [TS]

  into that you know I michelle bachman [TS]

  okay i get it you don't like being [TS]

  michelle bachman like how are you going [TS]

  to dissuade people from the michelle [TS]

  bachman project by yelling on twitter [TS]

  it's yeah it's a little boring rehash [TS]

  stuff but I'm just glad we're so much [TS]

  better than other people [TS]

  well it's true John Roderick this is [TS]

  long I've got this giant list of things [TS]

  I want to talk to you about that will [TS]

  probably have to save for our are [TS]

  imminent teacher podcast you know we'll [TS]

  save it for the Merlin talks to John [TS]

  podcast get Roderick on the line i think [TS]

  it should be called Roderick on the line [TS]

  and we we should start making that very [TS]

  soon because otherwise i would have to [TS]

  go back to work doing my own thing [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  well we'll talk about that let's avoid [TS]

  that for now like all of our [TS]

  conversations this one must end because [TS]

  i have to urinate and have to imagine [TS]

  that you probably do too [TS]

  that is how a lot of our conversations [TS]

  and isn't it even more you gotta catch a [TS]

  flight or somebody has to go to the [TS]

  bathroom that's pretty much it [TS]

  that's right that's right it's usually [TS]

  you have to go to the bathroom when I [TS]

  have to catch a flight [TS]

  yeah I can ruin a bathroom I gotta ruin [TS]

  a flight you could have been that man [TS]

  you've ruined that van but i don't know [TS]

  i don't know what's going on in your in [TS]

  your basement John to guilt then there's [TS]

  some suggestion that I eat too much [TS]

  sausage that i can document the process [TS]

  that sense [TS]

  I don't know how to process that sausage [TS]

  that's like autu robble robble too much [TS]

  i just didn't even hear the words in [TS]

  that sense [TS]

  alright alright John Roderick of the [TS]

  long winters inspiration and bon vivant [TS]

  raconteur see you play [TS]

  yeah 43 and I'm DWI until until you're [TS]

  on the the next contribution musical [TS]

  contribution to your over is ready to [TS]

  drop as we say in the rap business why [TS]

  would you like people to visit with what [TS]

  you do they should follow you on twitter [TS]

  at the were not at John Rocker know they [TS]

  should absolutely follow me on the [TS]

  twitter if they don't they're being [TS]

  responsible [TS]

  um I think they're just hurting [TS]

  themselves but also i mean if you're [TS]

  interested in if you're interested in [TS]

  any of the topics that we have covered [TS]

  today i have a community that your visit [TS]

  your local library [TS]

  I have a good visit your local library [TS]

  or my online store where all of these [TS]

  quotes can be purchased on a t-shirt was [TS]

  that is where the best place to find out [TS]

  what you're up to you i will link to [TS]

  things also that the best conduit the [TS]

  long winters dot-com is a is up is my [TS]

  website and that but better but because [TS]

  the long winters haven't produced a [TS]

  record in several years that website has [TS]

  its not dormant exactly by that but it [TS]

  that I think there's still a message [TS]

  board community that I think I'm i think [TS]

  i'm hosting it is I that haha [TS]

  nobody's busy been busy now he can [TS]

  update the sites like East he's got a [TS]

  very very busy [TS]

  yeah yeah he is a busy man yeah but no I [TS]

  I you know I think Twitter is a good [TS]

  first first place to look but I you know [TS]

  I often don't I don't tweet about things [TS]

  until after they happen sometimes I mean [TS]

  you know basically if you want to find [TS]

  me [TS]

  good luck yeah i'm not one of those [TS]

  people that's like on the internet come [TS]

  look at me all the time sure you are [TS]

  well get used to be you like you make a [TS]

  big game but you're like strapping like [TS]

  a strap virus you just use come around [TS]

  yeah sometimes on doorknobs yeah you can [TS]

  catch me on a toilet seat and catch me [TS]

  the toilet seat allowed near threat and [TS]

  then they'll get the action [TS]

  AJ AJ giggle homers yeah people stupid [TS]

  John Roderick often long winters thank [TS]

  you very much for your time [TS]

  everything you like to part with to say [TS]

  anything parting words to the back to [TS]

  work audience [TS]

  well I feel like you guys ought to get [TS]

  back to work and i hope this has been [TS]

  enjoyable and I'm gonna reset you down [TS]

  here i love you to marlon bye-bye [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]