The Incomparable

179: Thief-Based Economy

 

  the incomparable number 179 january2014 [TS]

  automatic comfortable on your host Jason [TS]

  smell and it's time for us to meet [TS]

  another edition of our book and we [TS]

  haven't read books and a little while [TS]

  we've been reading books but we haven't [TS]

  met and convened there's been no [TS]

  convention of book readers on the [TS]

  podcast in a little while to talk about [TS]

  specific books we did our book draft [TS]

  where we did our winter but you know [TS]

  picked a bazillion books for you to read [TS]

  that you're probably still trying to get [TS]

  through but we're back to talk about two [TS]

  books and specific we are gonna have [TS]

  some spoilers will fire out the spoiler [TS]

  horn will give you a warning about when [TS]

  to skip ahead if you want to talk about [TS]

  one of the books and not the other book [TS]

  the two books that we read because it's [TS]

  been so long i wanted to read two [TS]

  different books and these are books that [TS]

  I I've actually been I've had [TS]

  recommended to me for a while now by our [TS]

  panelists and I read them and so I [TS]

  thought hey now that i've read them i [TS]

  should get something out of this [TS]

  like podcasts so here we are and Scott [TS]

  McNulty joins us of course as always [TS]

  because he reads everything hi Scott [TS]

  hello Jason it's good to be here reading [TS]

  books read books for once [TS]

  not only that dungeons dragons with [TS]

  Roger brain that's true so that if i [TS]

  remember correctly this is the this the [TS]

  podcast where we all individually [TS]

  silently read books and all you hear is [TS]

  the turning of pages yes [TS]

  ok appreciated chuckle yeah and that [TS]

  voice you heard his Monte Ashley who [TS]

  also joins us [TS]

  hello Monty hello hi good to have you [TS]

  back [TS]

  thank you it's good to be back and you [TS]

  have read you've read both books correct [TS]

  i have read each of the two books [TS]

  amazing i hope now Dan Moore and his [TS]

  next and Warren is here sometimes dan [TS]

  doesn't finish the book we're reading [TS]

  dan have you read and finished both of [TS]

  these books book what is what is booked [TS]

  what is what is booked I yeah I read [TS]

  some books that is possibly they were [TS]

  they might even these and I couldn't [TS]

  tell you [TS]

  Jason is not amused all right i read [TS]

  those books what you want yeah i want [TS]

  you i want an admission that you [TS]

  finished you finished the books finished [TS]

  I won't get anything out of me cover [TS]

  yes I finished both books you want me on [TS]

  that library you need me on that line [TS]

  where do I say I wasn't any books with [TS]

  the lead pipe [TS]

  yes [TS]

  it's true alright with the books we are [TS]

  talking about the newest episode are the [TS]

  lies of locke lamora by Scott Lynch it's [TS]

  a fantasy novel it is the beginning of a [TS]

  series called the gentleman bastard [TS]

  series and yes there's more than one and [TS]

  we are also going to talk about a book [TS]

  called ancillary justice by and lucky [TS]

  this was one of Scott's recommendations [TS]

  i believe Scott you said this was your [TS]

  favorite book of 2013 correct it [TS]

  certainly was [TS]

  wow haha yeah I'd I what I wasn't going [TS]

  to say it but it seems like nobody else [TS]

  agrees with me but so I am now going to [TS]

  science podcast so for I think stop [TS]

  recording and say goodbye suckers [TS]

  oh ok so let's start with the lies of [TS]

  locke lamora dan you are you have been [TS]

  recommending this to me and bugging me [TS]

  about reading this for so long that [TS]

  finally went on sale on amazon and you [TS]

  gifted me a copy i forget for [TS]

  ninety-nine cents or whatever was worth [TS]

  every penny [TS]

  read this well I great it and you know [TS]

  honestly i think i read it in 2007 for [TS]

  the first time so quite a long time now [TS]

  it's been out for a while and then I [TS]

  read the sequel's as they arrived in the [TS]

  most recent sequel arrived only last [TS]

  fall after many many years between that [TS]

  in the second book and I loved it and I [TS]

  read the same summer i read the patrick [TS]

  rothfuss name of the wind and found them [TS]

  very very similar [TS]

  huh and indeed recently read a tweet by [TS]

  Patrick Rothfuss where he said I have [TS]

  this idea for when locking coat meet in [TS]

  a bar was like I think my head just [TS]

  exploded [TS]

  Wow too much whimsy I I yeah I found [TS]

  these i have found these different so I [TS]

  wonder dance you were the guy who bought [TS]

  me the book could you take us through a [TS]

  little explanation of what are the lies [TS]

  of locke lamora is all about [TS]

  yeah well the last lot more is a fantasy [TS]

  book it takes place in the fictional a [TS]

  realm of cum more and it basically [TS]

  follows this crew of thieves name the [TS]

  gentlemen bastards and we sort of get a [TS]

  couple hundred twenty narratives one we [TS]

  get the past of the main character or [TS]

  the titular locke lamora and how we sort [TS]

  of grows up and gets taken into this [TS]

  group [TS]

  thieves and eventually becomes their [TS]

  leader meanwhile it's intertwined with a [TS]

  narrative from the present day as they [TS]

  try to pull off a job and what's notable [TS]

  about the thieves and I think that [TS]

  struck me even more the second time i [TS]

  read through is that what they're doing [TS]

  is really unheard of in this world which [TS]

  is to say they're not just thieves [TS]

  though they are good thieves their [TS]

  comment and nobody's really developed [TS]

  this art of the con yet the long con [TS]

  and so we follow this long con that has [TS]

  all these as as many good con stories [TS]

  and movies and books have various layers [TS]

  there's lots of people working against [TS]

  each other at various points and some [TS]

  rather terrible things happen later on [TS]

  in the book but I i have to say i do [TS]

  love this book is one of my favorites [TS]

  from the last several years and I [TS]

  recommend it to many many people anybody [TS]

  really likes fantasy I feel like it's [TS]

  not your typical it's not like high [TS]

  fantasy right it's very you know what is [TS]

  concerned primarily with these guys who [TS]

  are the thieves and rogues there's not a [TS]

  lot of magic there is some there is yes [TS]

  it plays a a kind of key role i also [TS]

  really like the setting which is a he is [TS]

  sort of Renaissance italy-based there's [TS]

  a lot of stuff with the a Tiffany was [TS]

  built on the ruins of an alien [TS]

  civilization yet which it was which is [TS]

  still have some relevance but not a [TS]

  whole lot of relevance but it's got the [TS]

  whole like there's it's essentially [TS]

  venice right like there's canals and [TS]

  there's you know people in masks and [TS]

  things like this and it's got a very [TS]

  very Renaissance field if the tallest [TS]

  buildings were constructed out of some [TS]

  sort of strange alien obsidian that had [TS]

  been there thousands have you been to [TS]

  Venice because simply saying I haven't [TS]

  but there you go [TS]

  are you saying there's alien obsidian [TS]

  i'm not saying there is alright fair [TS]

  enough [TS]

  so that's that sums it up i think i [TS]

  think so its I heard somebody described [TS]

  to me might even you as sort of Ocean's [TS]

  eleven in in a fantasy world because it [TS]

  is a heist it is there's a there's a con [TS]

  game at work here [TS]

  what it what it reminded the setting [TS]

  reminded me of the that Woody Allen joke [TS]

  about how like my big brother beat up on [TS]

  me and my big sister beat up on my big [TS]

  brother might [TS]

  parents beat up on us and the people [TS]

  across the hall beat up on them and the [TS]

  people downstairs beat up on our floor [TS]

  and the people the next building get up [TS]

  on our building and he built this whole [TS]

  pyramid of people and he's at the bottom [TS]

  of it getting beat up and this is like [TS]

  that cause there's like the the low [TS]

  thieves and then the the higher thieves [TS]

  robbed from the lower thieves in the [TS]

  higher thieves robbed and it's like this [TS]

  whole you get the sense this whole city [TS]

  is entirely it's like a thief based [TS]

  economy [TS]

  yeah and these guys are trouble because [TS]

  they're like the there they're like the [TS]

  thief's thieves of thieves there they [TS]

  break the rules write the rules are [TS]

  they've made the sort of head you know [TS]

  Godfather like figure of the underworld [TS]

  has made this deal where the thieves [TS]

  don't steal from the nobles essentially [TS]

  and so right they're protected right [TS]

  there's a secret peace between them and [TS]

  so lock in his crew are secretly going [TS]

  behind the backs of their of the rest of [TS]

  the thieves and and ripping off nobles [TS]

  using these con games and so they're [TS]

  playing this very difficult this very [TS]

  risky game and it may come back to bite [TS]

  them in the ass [TS]

  the only way to win that game is not to [TS]

  play more to play it really well as [TS]

  posting this is the wrong lesson to make [TS]

  you'll be good [TS]

  yes you can win it by winning that's [TS]

  another way to win the game [TS]

  traditional little-known fact about the [TS]

  game you take a risk [TS]

  somebody will come into your lair and [TS]

  kill everybody oh did I spoil something [TS]

  there's lots of people died in this book [TS]

  lots of characters are horribly horribly [TS]

  killed [TS]

  sometimes you have to sacrifice some [TS]

  ponds to do something i don't i don't so [TS]

  I without without blowing I mean I gave [TS]

  a little that was a little miners we [TS]

  want some people thought little miners [TS]

  both know i think you can read the book [TS]

  and you wouldn't know you're not like oh [TS]

  I'm gonna wait for people to die o [TS]

  people died of more people that lots of [TS]

  people died in the book it's just people [TS]

  it happens there's lots of murder and [TS]

  and it is think everything you need in [TS]

  the george RR martin school of there are [TS]

  very few people who are sacred [TS]

  yeah exactly right exactly right so [TS]

  here's here's the thing that got me [TS]

  about this book structurally and it's [TS]

  right at the beginning so i'm not i'm [TS]

  not skipping ahead too much to say I [TS]

  found its structure really weird because [TS]

  there's this whole prologue that goes on [TS]

  seemingly forever and it [TS]

  reads like you're reading the beginning [TS]

  of a novel about this child who is taken [TS]

  in by this by this kind of Sagan asked [TS]

  just like it always say it's the poor [TS]

  orphans come to this underground lair [TS]

  where they learned steel and they and [TS]

  there's again a chain of who beats up on [TS]

  who and who takes whose money that they [TS]

  stolen all of that and this goes on for [TS]

  I you know it seems like a long time it [TS]

  seems like 50 pages 70 pages i don't [TS]

  know how long it was and I get to the [TS]

  end of it and I thought oh ok well this [TS]

  this was a little long and it was a [TS]

  little slow but i'm intrigued about what [TS]

  happens next to this little kid and i [TS]

  turn the page and it says chapter one [TS]

  and I go what the hell [TS]

  wait that was still the prologue yes [TS]

  that was still the prologue and chapter [TS]

  one begins and it's a totally different [TS]

  timeframe and it's these it's these kind [TS]

  of wise guy crooks who are working on a [TS]

  scheme and I'm thinking to myself [TS]

  has there been an error have I have a [TS]

  stroke as my kindle rebooted what has [TS]

  what just happened [TS]

  and in the end we discovered that there [TS]

  there is this it's not entirely the a [TS]

  plot in the B plot because it does drop [TS]

  off sort of after all that there's their [TS]

  flashbacks to explain things in the plot [TS]

  but it kind of keeps accelerating but it [TS]

  goes for a while and I kept thinking I I [TS]

  it I guess what I'm saying is it kind of [TS]

  frustrated me because I felt like there [TS]

  was sort of it was slowing things down [TS]

  at a point where I wasn't being kind of [TS]

  the good kind of tormented of like no no [TS]

  I want to find out what happens next it [TS]

  was more like Oh more of this now okay [TS]

  and it picked up eventually but it was I [TS]

  thought this was a really slow starter [TS]

  and I i really struggled for its through [TS]

  through the beginning of chapter one and [TS]

  I could say that because it was very [TS]

  long to get there so I thought that was [TS]

  strange I thought it was a strange way [TS]

  to start it is a little it is a little [TS]

  uh unconventional and i agree there's a [TS]

  lot of that it was different for me [TS]

  because i was reading for the most [TS]

  recently for the second time I can't [TS]

  tell you how much I what I thought the [TS]

  first time that was many years ago but [TS]

  this time around knowing what was coming [TS]

  I was like all right I'm filling in the [TS]

  backstory and remembering all these [TS]

  things about his childhood but it but [TS]

  also knowing that that wasn't the main [TS]

  thrust of the plot and I think even even [TS]

  Scotland has said himself that you know [TS]

  yeah if you would go back he would do it [TS]

  differently but [TS]

  yeah too late but it is well dan I [TS]

  brought in your past self from 2007-12 [TS]

  to join us now to tell us what you [TS]

  thought [TS]

  no sorry i really like oh boy i had not [TS]

  quit smoking at that point you know [TS]

  unfortunately wow did the end 2007 you [TS]

  sounded like sort of a high voice [TS]

  confused Scott McNulty was strange [TS]

  it's very weird iris drive it worked [TS]

  hard to lose that accent [TS]

  Monty what did you what it what did you [TS]

  think of the lies of locke lamora um I [TS]

  enjoyed it enormously [TS]

  I don't know if I think it's a good book [TS]

  or a bad book but I really really liked [TS]

  the character of lock so much that it [TS]

  carries me through almost any do any [TS]

  amount of gratuitous murder of which [TS]

  there is quite a bit [TS]

  yes [TS]

  like I really like that lock is [TS]

  consistently drawn he's got his [TS]

  superpower which i can say because in [TS]

  the title of the book [TS]

  he's a very good liar yes and at any [TS]

  point in order to get out of whatever [TS]

  situation has gotten himself in he he [TS]

  will probably get out by being a very [TS]

  good liar and I appreciate that kind of [TS]

  consistency in a book that lets say he's [TS]

  in a swordfight he's not necessarily be [TS]

  greatest sword fighter that sword [TS]

  fighting plus lying will result in him [TS]

  winning i enjoy lock so much that well I [TS]

  want to say i would watch him do [TS]

  anything but i never got around to [TS]

  reading the later books in the series so [TS]

  that was strictly true you don't love [TS]

  him that much but presented with him [TS]

  doing something I enjoy I enjoy watching [TS]

  it happen when he's got his little [TS]

  friends he's got a little gang [TS]

  well I mean so you've got his mean it's [TS]

  like it's like watching a buddy cop show [TS]

  to a certain extent right because you've [TS]

  got you've also got gene tannin who is [TS]

  the other sort of Maine ish character [TS]

  and the two of them have a report that [TS]

  is very reminiscent of you know a lot of [TS]

  character driven procedural shows [TS]

  yeah and my favorite classic fantasy [TS]

  series is factored in the gray Mouser by [TS]

  fitz labor so I like seeing sort of [TS]

  their descendants in the dnd thief class [TS]

  rep sticking around got worried about [TS]

  you what do you think of of the LifeLock [TS]

  Maura [TS]

  well i thought that i had read this book [TS]

  years ago and I just looked at my list [TS]

  of books that I read last year and [TS]

  apparently i read in march so who do I [TS]

  don't think it really has no bearing on [TS]

  if I like the book or not I didn't like [TS]

  the book it was the first 1i thought so [TS]

  there are three so far in the series [TS]

  the first one is the strongest the [TS]

  second one is the weakest and the third [TS]

  point i think is the second-strongest so [TS]

  I think he does a good job of creating [TS]

  these characters like everyone said and [TS]

  putting them into interesting situations [TS]

  i don't know if it adds up to much [TS]

  overall but I thought it was an [TS]

  enjoyable read and I did get find it [TS]

  annoying [TS]

  the i read the wikipedia entry and they [TS]

  list the characters in the book and at [TS]

  the the last person they list is a [TS]

  Sabitha right doesn't appear in this not [TS]

  haha yes which i found it was kind of [TS]

  like served not appearing in this film [TS]

  often mentioned never seen [TS]

  I in fact me not seen in either of the [TS]

  first two books it's true and then the [TS]

  time she was here she she is a very [TS]

  major character in the third book but it [TS]

  does take a long time to see her I mean [TS]

  you sort of get an idea [TS]

  she's a character drawn by her absence [TS]

  like there's a guy I always pronounce [TS]

  its abbas Sabbath I don't know but [TS]

  there's H a hole in her shape that runs [TS]

  through the entire narrative that they [TS]

  talk a lot up yeah about water and you [TS]

  you realize in the third book that's [TS]

  because she is a integral integral part [TS]

  especially of locks life but it is it is [TS]

  an interesting take on not having such [TS]

  an integral character in you know after [TS]

  doing you know a thousand pages about [TS]

  these guys [TS]

  yeah it's a strange decision alright [TS]

  time for a break to talk about our [TS]

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  route now let's look here I'm using mail [TS]

  route for my domain and if i log into [TS]

  the easy tools that are available for [TS]

  every user on mail route that I see I've [TS]

  got a fake life insurance ad I've got [TS]

  something called deep-sea miracle [TS]

  nutrient I've got a fake amazon gift [TS]

  card that's totally a scam and this is [TS]

  just stuff that's come in today as I [TS]

  record this [TS]

  there's a great thing called spam that's [TS]

  really nice that they tell you that it's [TS]

  Pam it's in here [TS]

  I never got any of this this stuff is [TS]

  there on the server in case there's [TS]

  something that they find that they think [TS]

  is spam but it turns out is not they [TS]

  send you a really convenient email that [TS]

  you can configure how often you get it [TS]

  and you can whitelist things straight [TS]

  from there and have more deliver the [TS]

  message into your mail but most of the [TS]

  time I don't even go to the web [TS]

  other than to gloat about all this [TS]

  terrible mail that isn't going in my [TS]

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  they're focusing on delivering only the [TS]

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  you so much to mail route for cleaning [TS]

  my mailbox and for sponsoring the [TS]

  incomparable so one of the things I [TS]

  really like I liked I liked when the [TS]

  book picked up when the the scheme was [TS]

  in place when there's almost a mean I [TS]

  was gonna say that's almost a godfather [TS]

  like it is a godfather like thing there [TS]

  is the head of organized crime he hears [TS]

  a godfather there there's a cosmic and [TS]

  there's a plot against the Godfather @ @ [TS]

  & and there's this there's this new guy [TS]

  the the grey King freaky and and so that [TS]

  there is this whole sort of like [TS]

  Godfather like a bloody set of of [TS]

  horrible things that happened murders [TS]

  that happened in order to have this [TS]

  organized-crime thing and and lock has [TS]

  to make a decision at one point late in [TS]

  the book in terms of getting some [TS]

  revenge or saving a lot of people and so [TS]

  you've got that you wanna okay we know [TS]

  you're a thief but are you somebody who [TS]

  is more concerned with killing this [TS]

  person who did wrong or are you more [TS]

  heroic person who will make that [TS]

  decision and that's really interesting [TS]

  and my favorite thing single favorite [TS]

  thing in the entire book is there is a [TS]

  great uh doubletwist basically where we [TS]

  are [TS]

  uh we're we're seeing lock doing a [TS]

  put-on and and realizing that he's he's [TS]

  he's put a fake story inside another [TS]

  fake story that that he that he actually [TS]

  lets the people he's conning know [TS]

  they're being calm [TS]

  and in order to set up a second con [TS]

  which then there's another party that is [TS]

  try mean that'sthat's made me laugh out [TS]

  loud when I'm like wait cons within cons [TS]

  within cons that was really that was [TS]

  really very funny using his powers of [TS]

  disguise and he's lying he's literally [TS]

  telling a story to somebody and dressing [TS]

  up in another costume breaking into [TS]

  their house and telling them a different [TS]

  story okay just don't trust that guy [TS]

  that was that was really that was really [TS]

  funny and at the end the action is [TS]

  really excellent and and that the [TS]

  payoffs of all the all the deaths I [TS]

  thought were interesting there's a [TS]

  little hand waving there's a there's a [TS]

  ship that's parked in the harbor that's [TS]

  are like that ship is out there why is [TS]

  there no we're gonna tell you later but [TS]

  you know that part was fun it was just [TS]

  the slow i felt like he had so much that [TS]

  he wanted to do he was so happy with [TS]

  this idea of where lochmoor came from [TS]

  that he took a lot of time to talk about [TS]

  that when you know I i kinda then when I [TS]

  when we switch time frames in there [TS]

  there like in this alley and they're [TS]

  riding horses and they're going in a [TS]

  boat and all this stuff I'm like who are [TS]

  these guys and why it's just I was [TS]

  exhausted at that point and I didn't [TS]

  really wanna die I will I was losing [TS]

  patience with the book so i'm glad I [TS]

  stuck with it but it really it was a [TS]

  rough start [TS]

  i'd say i don't think the finale was [TS]

  maybe a little bit princess bride ii not [TS]

  yet entirely a bad thing just with even [TS]

  more getting stabbed I feel like there's [TS]

  a lot of staff it's very stabby it well [TS]

  and I like a mean into Marty's point i [TS]

  liked the idea that you know the sort of [TS]

  ultimate way that it plays out is not [TS]

  that he you know lock is not your sword [TS]

  you know swashbuckling sword-swinging [TS]

  hero right [TS]

  he's a guy who can take a punch and take [TS]

  a lot of punches and eventually his [TS]

  buddy who is a serious bruiser shows up [TS]

  and so it was you know he's not he's [TS]

  really good at some things but he's not [TS]

  good at everything [TS]

  yeah and I think that's what makes him a [TS]

  fun character to watch he is also [TS]

  incredibly flawed but he's no miles [TS]

  producing I mean miles with us again has [TS]

  his own flaws and in fact I think [TS]

  locking miles are actually very similar [TS]

  in that they're both very clever and [TS]

  both you know very smart and and [TS]

  resilient but at the same time [TS]

  extremely confident of their own [TS]

  abilities and sometimes to the point of [TS]

  their downfall anything else we should [TS]

  we should mention about livelaughlove [TS]

  Maura it is bloody there's lots of [TS]

  murder and counter murder there's a [TS]

  there's a really nice couple of set [TS]

  pieces in a tower that is up in these [TS]

  crazy kind of alien built obsidian [TS]

  skyscraper thingies where there's a [TS]

  there's a good bit with an elevator [TS]

  he jumps on the upside an elevator [TS]

  there's a couple great i mean one of my [TS]

  favorite little set-pieces is just a [TS]

  story told in sort of you know in [TS]

  passing which is about the Godfather [TS]

  like character and how he comes to power [TS]

  at one point because he has this thing [TS]

  where he puts he has this really nice [TS]

  rug and he keeps having people come in [TS]

  and every time he's gonna like kill [TS]

  people like they've rolled up the rug [TS]

  and put it away and so you might like [TS]

  all the other crime because this for [TS]

  years and then the other crime bosses [TS]

  come in one day and there although we're [TS]

  busy all the rugs there you won't ruin [TS]

  the rock and then kill software [TS]

  development throws out the rug and i was [TS]

  like i like that because that seems like [TS]

  a clever you know conceit in something [TS]

  that somebody who is a crime boss in [TS]

  particularly brutal would do [TS]

  yeah but it is an ice road [TS]

  it is nice road but you know sometimes [TS]

  you are when you're making an omelet you [TS]

  gotta break a few rugs ties the room [TS]

  together [TS]

  also these the sub the subplot with this [TS]

  the spider i think is is also one of the [TS]

  guy i like the development of that [TS]

  character because very easily could have [TS]

  been a kind of stereotypical trubbish [TS]

  you know spymaster character and instead [TS]

  it turns out to be someone who is not [TS]

  entirely who you suspect the end of that [TS]

  was very strange that was that was part [TS]

  of the ending that I that maybe this is [TS]

  part of what money was getting to at the [TS]

  very end it's sort of like well now i'm [TS]

  going to retire a spymaster and you to [TS]

  sort of random characters that don't [TS]

  really seem qualified to be this at all [TS]

  this at the most important job in the [TS]

  entire country you will be the new [TS]

  spymasters goodbye and I thought wait [TS]

  but those they kind of suck why would [TS]

  you what you know [TS]

  come on is this a con is this some sort [TS]

  of con they were the best that can more [TS]

  heads off [TS]

  that's pretty sad it is pretty sad they [TS]

  keep getting ripped off their the first [TS]

  people who actually got like seriously [TS]

  con so you know they have experienced [TS]

  that I guess that that seemed that [TS]

  seemed all too law of economy of [TS]

  characters for me that it was like you [TS]

  you're nearby you be this new thing now [TS]

  goodbye and that didn't that didn't [TS]

  really make a lot of sense for me but [TS]

  all in all I mean I liked it i did not [TS]

  curse your name Dan after i finished it [TS]

  probably good my actually was like wow [TS]

  that's nice thanks Dan for buying me a [TS]

  book and make me make me read it so i [TS]

  would have been sad if you didn't like I [TS]

  I it is it remains one of my favorites i [TS]

  enjoyed reading it immensely [TS]

  so secret sequels what we mentioned this [TS]

  uh we mentioned this before where Scott [TS]

  told us the second one was bad and the [TS]

  good [TS]

  therefore by the process of elimination [TS]

  the third would be the second best is a [TS]

  lot of people apparently didn't like the [TS]

  third and I was even seeing some people [TS]

  in the chat room say that i enjoyed the [TS]

  third and part of that has to do with [TS]

  the fact that sabita is a major [TS]

  character in it i'm just gonna pronounce [TS]

  her name that wakes that's how I saved [TS]

  my head and I like the rapport between [TS]

  her and lock it does so come a little [TS]

  bit too too much of the you know i kinda [TS]

  will they won't they sort of scenario [TS]

  they also clearly have a lot of history [TS]

  there is also a again they do this sort [TS]

  of thing where they have a a second [TS]

  second thread that tells a story from [TS]

  when they are young girl yeah that that [TS]

  sort of goes along at the same time [TS]

  which is also in and of itself kind of a [TS]

  cool con set up but yeah i agree it's [TS]

  got the second one is the weakest though [TS]

  it has some necessary things in it as [TS]

  far as the plot goes in the development [TS]

  of those characters go [TS]

  yeah if you want to read these books I [TS]

  would not suggest skipping not be [TS]

  prepared to be disappointed you would be [TS]

  very surprised at the beginning of the [TS]

  third book is lowering the bar here is [TS]

  what we're doing well I mean there's [TS]

  still some great stuff and there's great [TS]

  character moments and I think that's [TS]

  what draws me through it even when the [TS]

  plots I feel like art as strong the [TS]

  relationship between lock and gene is [TS]

  sort of the bedrock on which these [TS]

  stories are built and that remains [TS]

  pretty solid in my opinion so I think [TS]

  that's kind of the thread that keeps me [TS]

  going through it is the relationship [TS]

  between those two characters [TS]

  yeah I like Jean as a character [TS]

  I think I like him more than I like lock [TS]

  and you don't like miles either so that [TS]

  kind of jobs true i like lock more than [TS]

  like miles though so if I'm ranking and [TS]

  gene and Ivan right i do like I've been [TS]

  more than I like a miles and block screw [TS]

  lock is a you know he is he's this [TS]

  mysterious figure whereas gene you get [TS]

  the sense when we know jeans story and [TS]

  we know where he's coming from [TS]

  in a way that we don't really from lock [TS]

  and you know that that's the jeans [TS]

  advantage again he's a known entity he's [TS]

  he's a stalwart companion kind of the-- [TS]

  Friar Tuck I supposed to Robin Hood a [TS]

  fair enough [TS]

  not as mercurial but you know like he's [TS]

  saying more of a steady steady guiding [TS]

  influence might be like we know lock [TS]

  pretty well here's a guy who lies all [TS]

  the time and makes things way more [TS]

  complicated than he has to know that's [TS]

  true that is true is all about style as [TS]

  long as it's consistent i'm buying with [TS]

  that that's one of the things that in a [TS]

  story like this where you got this kind [TS]

  of roguish hero who is kind of you know [TS]

  he's he's a hero but he is also roguish [TS]

  right one of the things that I like [TS]

  about it is that he he is he pushes it a [TS]

  little too far sometimes because he just [TS]

  can't help himself and that's that you [TS]

  know it's fun to see that to see him [TS]

  like well let's try this [TS]

  oh that didn't work right and that's [TS]

  good that's what part of the enjoyment [TS]

  of it it's that uh yeah he's a little [TS]

  bit of a scoundrel and in some in some [TS]

  cases and I writing by the seat of his [TS]

  pants [TS]

  yeah yeah you know it's gonna get him [TS]

  into trouble one day but you just gotta [TS]

  let him do it because you love him so [TS]

  much [TS]

  you know that's just it he's a lovable [TS]

  scamp he is that is a little bit someone [TS]

  and that someone in the chat room is [TS]

  saying that the sequels are on the level [TS]

  of the matrix sequels [TS]

  yes i'm going to disagree with her [TS]

  sickness right that's kinda harsh a [TS]

  person AF Waller really did not like to [TS]

  see ya or really like the matrix sequels [TS]

  mr. let's don't let's not discount that [TS]

  unlikely but possible possibility [TS]

  so my question for you guys then is a 44 [TS]

  Dana and Scott have read the other books [TS]

  should i go down that path or should I [TS]

  not [TS]

  mmm it is [TS]

  a path fraught with peril if you like if [TS]

  you came out on balance positive on the [TS]

  first book I feel like their stuff to [TS]

  enjoy this equals well it depends on why [TS]

  you read books right if you are and [TS]

  they're like 2,000 words are the two [TS]

  thousand pages more of these books [TS]

  yeah I know yes I read books to learn [TS]

  things and get tips about medieval and [TS]

  and magical cons oh then well then [TS]

  please we've got some books whatever you [TS]

  have at it [TS]

  alright well i think that the these are [TS]

  very character-driven and if you enjoy [TS]

  the characters of lock and gene then by [TS]

  all means [TS]

  alright looks if you are more interested [TS]

  in a plot that perhaps makes sense maybe [TS]

  not fair enough why I will say this [TS]

  given everything you've said about the [TS]

  second book in the series it the bars [TS]

  said rather low my expectations are not [TS]

  set so high if i do better and i'll be [TS]

  like alright let's see how bad this is [TS]

  and then maybe i'll be surprised Jason [TS]

  how do you feel about boats [TS]

  I'm great at boats you're right about [TS]

  excellent excellent then the second book [TS]

  let me tell you you'll be all for that's [TS]

  what he wants a lot of boats i'm [TS]

  interested in the comings and goings of [TS]

  various boats there's a lot of nautical [TS]

  intrigue interesting [TS]

  ok we should move on but that is the [TS]

  lies of locke lamora by Scott Lynch it's [TS]

  available everywhere I wouldn't wait [TS]

  around for Dan morning to buy you a copy [TS]

  because i think it's alright he only [TS]

  does that for for me stingy maybe maybe [TS]

  some of our other fine panelists didn't [TS]

  buy me a copy or or I'm assuming you [TS]

  didn't buy montia copy either it's true [TS]

  you guys already read it [TS]

  well yeah probably how convenient for [TS]

  you yeah look at that monkey dad lucky [TS]

  Dan that's what they call me [TS]

  alright time to take a brief break so i [TS]

  can tell you about our sponsor lynda.com [TS]

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  told you about some of them in the past [TS]

  as a self-taught audio guy I find having [TS]

  the experts at lynda.com explain to me [TS]

  what the heck I've been doing and what [TS]

  I've been doing wrong to be really [TS]

  interesting they've got lots of courses [TS]

  about recording audio about compression [TS]

  and noise gates and expanders and things [TS]

  that I just don't know anything about [TS]

  and i use them in preset ways that [TS]

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  about and now I can start to understand [TS]

  it because i'm looking at those courses [TS]

  on lynda.com same about logic which I [TS]

  use to edit the podcast lynda.com has [TS]

  huge amounts of logic material but it [TS]

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  lynda.com like I said that people who [TS]

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  these are not people who are just kind [TS]

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  and now they're going to teach you with [TS]

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  from my short time using lynda.com and [TS]

  the courses are really well structured [TS]

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  can jump to a particular chapter there's [TS]

  a text transcript really well done you [TS]

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  entire library as part of your free [TS]

  trial you go to linda.com ly nba.com [TS]

  slash incomparable that's lynda.com / [TS]

  and comparable and thanks so much to [TS]

  linda.com for teaching me to be a better [TS]

  audio editor and for sponsoring the [TS]

  incomparable alright let's move on to [TS]

  talk about ancillary justice which is a [TS]

  more recent book because it was [TS]

  published last year and Scott really [TS]

  loved it and lucky [TS]

  Scott you you describe this in a [TS]

  previous episode briefly but i was [TS]

  wondering if you could do us the favor [TS]

  again I was struck by it being [TS]

  a little bit like I've only read a [TS]

  couple in banks culture novels but it [TS]

  felt a little bit like that it seemed to [TS]

  get to have a very similar kind of feel [TS]

  in that in that space opera with a man [TS]

  you know human ish but yet very alien [TS]

  culture at the center of it yes it is [TS]

  quite Banksy and I suppose systems and [TS]

  work it is now unfortunately it means [TS]

  like the street artist banksy so banks [TS]

  you know that's just [TS]

  whoa that is not what i got from this [TS]

  look like your local uh safe [TS]

  savings-and-loan it's that it's very [TS]

  much like a local bank that's right in [TS]

  that I it was very interested it is a [TS]

  little banging anybody know right anyway [TS]

  perhaps you should have saved it [TS]

  I'm going to assess you a fee for bad [TS]

  joke oh so yes this was it is it is a [TS]

  kind of a a modern in the vein of the [TS]

  modern space opera right [TS]

  it involves this character named brick [TS]

  who is we should we should fire off the [TS]

  spoiler horn and then inserted retro [TS]

  actively before spot Scott explained all [TS]

  of those things about the river ranch so [TS]

  let's fire off the spoiler horn now for [TS]

  ancillary justice [TS]

  well it's hard to describe right soso in [TS]

  breck is one facet of an artificial [TS]

  intelligence that ran a ship that [TS]

  something happened to it we don't know [TS]

  in the beginning of the novel what's [TS]

  going on with brick and breakfast part [TS]

  of an alien race that doesn't really [TS]

  have a concept of gender & bread also [TS]

  doesn't really have a car isn't totally [TS]

  comfortable being an individual which [TS]

  makes it an interesting viewpoint [TS]

  character because you you've got gender [TS]

  confusion and a protagonist that's not [TS]

  quite certain of its own individuality [TS]

  which is an interesting combination and [TS]

  so a brac spent most of its time I think [TS]

  about a thousand years being this part [TS]

  of this multifaceted intelligence that [TS]

  ran the ship the Justice of Toren the [TS]

  Justice of Toren that's right and they [TS]

  know go about doing things and [TS]

  conquering planets and the way that this [TS]

  society propagates itself is that it [TS]

  much like the Roman Empire it captured [TS]

  conquering its neighbors and to [TS]

  manufacture soldiers they would take the [TS]

  corpses of the Concord worlds and store [TS]

  them in their ships why i think yet [TS]

  technically they would make them corpses [TS]

  well the street and then they would [TS]

  store the corpse it's not taking me not [TS]

  taking pre existing courses because that [TS]

  would be parented process that first [TS]

  involves killing the native population [TS]

  it's a little like plan9 now that i [TS]

  think about it and then the these bodies [TS]

  are stored on the ship and the ship can [TS]

  insert some sort of technology that then [TS]

  takes over the bodies in those bodies [TS]

  than house different facets of its [TS]

  intelligence but they are all kind of [TS]

  one hole yet separate beings kind of [TS]

  like the Holy Trinity you know [TS]

  completely different spaceship ok this [TS]

  podcast is now blasphemy [TS]

  so thanks Scott thanks like doing the [TS]

  Pope is just condemned our podcast good [TS]

  job [TS]

  the Pope is a Jesuit he's cool with us [TS]

  alright fair enough he prefers the [TS]

  sparrow [TS]

  it has probably well maybe not depends [TS]

  well yeah you're right you're right all [TS]

  right so anyway this character brake is [TS]

  on a quest to find a gun [TS]

  we're not sure why until it becomes [TS]

  clear that he wants to [TS]

  well she is wants to kill the ruler of [TS]

  his civilization the lord of the radish [TS]

  against radish and we find out that the [TS]

  Lord of radish is in fact not one person [TS]

  but I has hundreds of our maybe 200,000 [TS]

  tens of thousands of bodies that are all [TS]

  connected in some way and unbeknownst to [TS]

  us the lord of the ranch who apparently [TS]

  is a you know driving force of society [TS]

  and who everyone thinks of as this [TS]

  sacrosanct person is in fact splintering [TS]

  within itself and fighting an internal [TS]

  civil war amongst its own bodies and [TS]

  using the various ships against itself [TS]

  so that the little one version of the [TS]

  Lord of radish would visit a ship and [TS]

  then erase the fact that it was there [TS]

  and then another version would come and [TS]

  erase the version that was already there [TS]

  it gets a little confusing [TS]

  yep that was a very very like wide he'll [TS]

  go crazy in 2001 it's that it had [TS]

  conflicting orders and that's sort of [TS]

  what happens in an ancillary justice is [TS]

  there's the leader of this Empire but [TS]

  the leader itself is it issuing [TS]

  conflicting orders because it's at war [TS]

  with itself and this is freaking out [TS]

  these artificial intelligences on the [TS]

  ship's I thought that was really clever [TS]

  I at the same time I was a little [TS]

  confused because the only other people [TS]

  quote unquote that we saw with the [TS]

  multibody things for ships as opposed to [TS]

  the Emperor who is also was a presumably [TS]

  all of those are people [TS]

  yes it's a little weird because they're [TS]

  not quite analogous in that like one is [TS]

  clearly corpses of this like of like AI [TS]

  whereas one is a person's consciousness [TS]

  spread over many bodies [TS]

  it's a hard book to summarize i think [TS]

  yes a great a great immune to add a [TS]

  certain level it's it's very [TS]

  straightforward [TS]

  a breakfast it was seeking vengeance but [TS]

  against a tyrant basically but [TS]

  explaining i think it's much more [TS]

  nuanced than that and there's a lot of [TS]

  going on beyond well it's do once and [TS]

  yet on another level III get the sense [TS]

  that breck isn't quite sure what exactly [TS]

  she's gonna do [TS]

  she sort of like well we get the gun the [TS]

  gun can can can make some trouble [TS]

  I'm gonna make some trouble and we'll [TS]

  see how much trouble I can make before [TS]

  they better have to kill but she also [TS]

  knows she can't kill the Emperor is [TS]

  going from Lord of the radch cuz ya ya [TS]

  Ave because it [TS]

  he/she has many bodies and thus it's [TS]

  impossible free for want to kill all of [TS]

  them and there's a point towards the end [TS]

  of the book were breakeven says I then [TS]

  realized that my whole plan was [TS]

  impossible but yeah it's true [TS]

  who well thanks well also what's weird [TS]

  about the Civil War is that and I kind [TS]

  of actually dug this in which was which [TS]

  side is the right side and it turns out [TS]

  neither of the right like basically [TS]

  there's one that might be slightly more [TS]

  beneficial to breakfast continued [TS]

  existence right and there are some [TS]

  philosophical differences there but at [TS]

  the same time she's kind of trying to [TS]

  kill all of them all the it's not like [TS]

  there's a good one a bad one it's more [TS]

  like this politics because they're doing [TS]

  the ratch Empire is and i called at the [TS]

  ranch I don't know that works for me but [TS]

  it's it's there [TS]

  they're not very nice they're there they [TS]

  bake conquer these planets and they do [TS]

  all these terrible things actually one [TS]

  of things i really appreciate about this [TS]

  book is that we don't you know in i [TS]

  would i would say like 50 sci-fi you [TS]

  could have a story like this about a [TS]

  hive mind made up of bodies and and you [TS]

  wouldn't worry about who these things [TS]

  these people were before well we took [TS]

  dead bodies and we and we made them into [TS]

  people and and the plot of ancillary [TS]

  justice pivots on the mistreatment of [TS]

  the people by the Empire and a and a [TS]

  massacre and so it's not they don't [TS]

  steer away at all from the kind of [TS]

  horrific society that [TS]

  that causes this scenario to exist it's [TS]

  part of the story i really like that and [TS]

  and instead what we get with the two [TS]

  warring factions within the Emperor [TS]

  which is you know is that that's like [TS]

  ego and super-ego or whatever its except [TS]

  spread out on all these bodies it's kind [TS]

  of interesting the internal conflict of [TS]

  the Emperor is no external but what's at [TS]

  the end politically what the difference [TS]

  is is that they they ran into this alien [TS]

  race and the alien race looked at them [TS]

  and said while you're really two things [TS]

  right it's like you were the first [TS]

  interesting species that we would [TS]

  actually consider sentient so we're not [TS]

  going to completely destroy you but also [TS]

  you are really bad and we are going to [TS]

  do bad things to you if you don't stop [TS]

  and one of the one part of the Emperor [TS]

  wants to say screw those guys and the [TS]

  other one set is the one who said all [TS]

  right I guess we're gonna have to stop [TS]

  expanding our Empire and just sit here [TS]

  and not conquer even any other kind of [TS]

  human cultures or just gonna sit it out [TS]

  and then they have this fight and it's [TS]

  an interesting thing because i'm not in [TS]

  that way you kind of rooting for the [TS]

  aliens who have said stop [TS]

  you guys are are bad you need to stop [TS]

  this right well and there's all these [TS]

  other like little plots of you know that [TS]

  in retrospect are clues that sort of [TS]

  make up this Civil War right because we [TS]

  get these flashbacks to that so part of [TS]

  it is the flashbacks to that last [TS]

  occupation annexation whatever you want [TS]

  to call it and we actually see brac as a [TS]

  ship at that point experiencing that [TS]

  whole annexation and that sort of being [TS]

  one of the tipping points but we also [TS]

  have these couple pivotal events they [TS]

  talk about it was the emai where there's [TS]

  like a governor who's going like corrupt [TS]

  and is doing things behind people's [TS]

  backs and it turns out maybe that plays [TS]

  into the Civil War and then there's also [TS]

  the whole incident with the gun itself [TS]

  and where it came from which was to save [TS]

  the aliens I think they provide it to ya [TS]

  other group that's literally gun-running [TS]

  that's happening in the background here [TS]

  which is we're not like invisible [TS]

  gun-running though that's important [TS]

  yes invisible armor piercing shield [TS]

  piercing gun running one of the people [TS]

  in the chat room pointed out something [TS]

  that's very nice we just you know you [TS]

  could argue [TS]

  since one of the Emperor's is is [TS]

  basically on the side of not conquering [TS]

  all these planets and killing all the [TS]

  people to use as Corp soldiers and the [TS]

  other one is in favor of that that you [TS]

  could be you could probably lean to one [TS]

  side I think what we're saying is more [TS]

  that that neither of them was without [TS]

  sin here there one may be worse than the [TS]

  other strand but they do they make they [TS]

  make they make a clear point though that [TS]

  the the the normal radish troops are [TS]

  much worse [TS]

  yes the court executives right and that [TS]

  they caused many more massacres the car [TS]

  so I mean not that I'm pro-corporate i [TS]

  mean just see it's martin admit McNulty [TS]

  if you don't want corpse troops then [TS]

  your door hinges are going to be all [TS]

  gunky that's right that in that in that [TS]

  ends up being a problem I i don't know i [TS]

  didn't find either those care either the [TS]

  factions particularly cut and cut and [TS]

  dried when it came to that I mean and [TS]

  and that's interesting in some ways it's [TS]

  probably better than if there was simply [TS]

  black and white but at the same time III [TS]

  felt like the differences and we're not [TS]

  exactly subtle but like I had to you [TS]

  know wait is this okay so this guy's [TS]

  talking about this but we also talked [TS]

  about why that was good you know like [TS]

  having the ancillary is better than [TS]

  humans in some places so like you're [TS]

  trying to balance that and i think it it [TS]

  ends up being icon with breakfast just [TS]

  kill them all [TS]

  yeah my god started having these dead [TS]

  these people we've killed brought back [TS]

  as a slave bodies for the only obvious [TS]

  that is not good but our hero is [TS]

  ostensibly one of those to which is [TS]

  which makes it somewhat you know [TS]

  entertainment and remembers having all [TS]

  these ancillary zand being really happy [TS]

  so yeah this is the suggestiveness this [TS]

  is the richness of this of this book is [TS]

  that we've got this high-level [TS]

  background that the story is told [TS]

  against which is as as broad widescreen [TS]

  space operas you get it [TS]

  Oh an alien or human Empire an alien [TS]

  Empire and the taking over planets and [TS]

  converting dead bodies into ship [TS]

  ancillary and all of that and yet it and [TS]

  then inside that we've got this struggle [TS]

  of identity with brac who is you know we [TS]

  haven't even talked very much about this [TS]

  is a hive mind that we're one of the B's [TS]

  you know and all the bees are human [TS]

  intelligence their people and [TS]

  then one of them gets cut off from all [TS]

  the others so they are the they are the [TS]

  impression of the hive mind and they [TS]

  have been thinking of themselves as the [TS]

  hive mind all along and now all of a [TS]

  sudden break is a person and it was [TS]

  fascinating is break even has a hard [TS]

  time thinking of herself as a person [TS]

  she's a ship that happens to be in one [TS]

  ancillary when in fact she is what we [TS]

  would call a person and that's a fact [TS]

  that's fascinating to me that yeah [TS]

  there's this real struggle on this is a [TS]

  character who starts out your custom [TS]

  sort of kind of wandering and depressed [TS]

  and and because she's lost have been [TS]

  everything she's lost most of herself [TS]

  and that and she is this last echo of [TS]

  almost like a ghost an echo of a [TS]

  creature that doesn't exist anymore [TS]

  yeah to break Rex name is justice of [TS]

  Toren because that was the name of the [TS]

  ship that wreck was the AI of it's not [TS]

  even that it's justice of Toren and she [TS]

  was the one ask one ask one asks 17 or [TS]

  something like that 19 yeah I mean it's [TS]

  a one of this huge thing and that's all [TS]

  that's left is one asked night which is [TS]

  why I thought the whole concept which is [TS]

  made this book just a very interesting [TS]

  to me which is you know why it was my [TS]

  favorite book of the year because I just [TS]

  thought there were so many layers to it [TS]

  and it took kind of a familiar story and [TS]

  gave it a very interesting in new twist [TS]

  and spin to it and plus I think she's a [TS]

  good writer [TS]

  I could have done with fewer layers like [TS]

  well I can get murky I felt the book had [TS]

  too many ideas like the ongoing thing [TS]

  about how wreck doesn't know what gender [TS]

  people are that meant nothing [TS]

  yep and just got in the way you got that [TS]

  was like a negative means use the hell [TS]

  that like because and I and I understand [TS]

  if you're making a point about like you [TS]

  know in the future gender doesn't matter [TS]

  if you're in like you know that's [TS]

  totally cool I'm all on board with that [TS]

  but the fact that it was used in such a [TS]

  place where it's like I can't picture [TS]

  these characters [TS]

  yeah because I don't know if it like [TS]

  maybe I should not be bound by the [TS]

  constructs of gender but guess what I am [TS]

  because I live in the 21st century and [TS]

  that we still do things that would it be [TS]

  for yourself if you're going to [TS]

  Australia gender this is a great idea if [TS]

  you're going to tell story that's not [TS]

  about gender really i mean it is about [TS]

  identity and [TS]

  way but it's not really about gender [TS]

  identity yeah it's a strange choice I i [TS]

  was struck early on they flee out of [TS]

  this town and go and their their ship [TS]

  crashes and there in the snow and [TS]

  they're walking to get in this super [TS]

  cold planet and walking to get to this [TS]

  place and I was really reminded of the [TS]

  left hand of darkness which is which I [TS]

  owe my memory of that book is it's it's [TS]

  a it's very cold whole book it's a cold [TS]

  cold thing and that was a book that was [TS]

  about gender and gender identity and and [TS]

  it would make sense for a book like that [TS]

  this book is not I just I felt not about [TS]

  that and she had a really clever idea [TS]

  and it is clever and there's a very [TS]

  funny moment where this this person [TS]

  she's been toting around referring to as [TS]

  a her all along you realize is a man [TS]

  because she's like uses the other [TS]

  language and you're like oh male ok that [TS]

  yeah methanation way but is he [TS]

  I but i don't know that that's true yeah [TS]

  and like someone uses it but in the the [TS]

  whole point is in the radical language [TS]

  they don't have any Gentile buddy but [TS]

  but she translated remembers oh I'm [TS]

  using this language so i need to say [TS]

  that it that that it's mail that she's [TS]

  mail and and so you get that but it's [TS]

  only in these times of the crack shows [TS]

  and it's you know it's interesting to to [TS]

  to see through the little crack in the [TS]

  language to to the gender but in the end [TS]

  was it really necessary for this book [TS]

  yeah I don't think so i'd say i'd save [TS]

  that for a book that really has things [TS]

  to say about gender i highlighted it on [TS]

  page 161 409 thirty-nine percent of the [TS]

  way through the book it is clear as [TS]

  Brett talks to stricken thats a garden [TS]

  is male [TS]

  yes guys as soon as the scenes / Brett [TS]

  goes back to calling some part in her [TS]

  because breakfast in terms of of the [TS]

  ratch generalist language and i expect [TS]

  in a sequel it will be made clear that [TS]

  say pardon is in love with brick but I [TS]

  don't see why we need the gender [TS]

  confusion to conceal their brakes not [TS]

  gonna notice anyway and we don't know [TS]

  what gender break is and i love I kind [TS]

  of assume female but again that's just [TS]

  the she is the word that's used all [TS]

  female pronouns are used throughout I [TS]

  thought that was clever but it was to [TS]

  the point of a yet the confusion of it [TS]

  made it made it harder for you took me [TS]

  out of the story because it Danny [TS]

  trying to picture a character in my head [TS]

  I just wasn't sure what to picture I had [TS]

  a hard time getting a drawn character [TS]

  and that's just the way i read it's like [TS]

  you know image that I have that imagery [TS]

  in my head so it made it difficult for [TS]

  me and i agree with you Jason if it was [TS]

  something that was really central to the [TS]

  point of the book i think it could be [TS]

  really interesting but in this book it [TS]

  just took me out of the story [TS]

  well i think it was central not doesn't [TS]

  specifically the gender like you I don't [TS]

  think this book is making a big point [TS]

  about gender but it is making a big [TS]

  point about identity and alien this and [TS]

  how brick as a character is unsure of [TS]

  itself and what it is and then as as the [TS]

  readers this uncertainty about gender [TS]

  kind of puts us in it confuses us it [TS]

  makes it a little more difficult and [TS]

  frustrating to read yes but it kind of [TS]

  lets you sympathize with Brett because [TS]

  break is going through this on a much [TS]

  larger scale but it didn't make me [TS]

  sympathize with bracket made me wonder [TS]

  if brick was even for an AI out of its [TS]

  computer stupid because there was a time [TS]

  when Brett could read save gardens [TS]

  heartbeat breakfast should know [TS]

  everything about say Varden's physical [TS]

  form and breck has had what was it like [TS]

  12 years walking among people right it's [TS]

  not that hard to learn the difference [TS]

  between a male and a female body i could [TS]

  cover it in a couple of sentences time I [TS]

  said I think I think her point is is not [TS]

  that they don't know it's that doesn't [TS]

  matter culturally they considered [TS]

  irrelevant and that language it's that [TS]

  old i'm going to bring it bring out some [TS]

  UCSD comm major you know Monty it's the [TS]

  old sapir-whorf hypothesis that the [TS]

  language defines a the defiance culture [TS]

  and the way we think and so the idea i [TS]

  mean that's the idea is they don't have [TS]

  concept of gender it's not the gender [TS]

  isn't there and they know that when a [TS]

  when when a male she and a female she [TS]

  loved each other very much they can make [TS]

  a baby she but um it but that uh the [TS]

  idea is that they just don't think in [TS]

  those terms and so brac doesn't think in [TS]

  those terms i i i agree though I I just [TS]

  don't think it I i I'd I don't think [TS]

  those issues are the issues of identity [TS]

  that the book is about I think all it [TS]

  does is it does add to the confusion and [TS]

  makes us kind of confused like brac but [TS]

  i think it's a neat idea but [TS]

  this that book has a bunch of ideas [TS]

  think this one could have been taken out [TS]

  and i would have liked the look more i [TS]

  also would have preferred to have fewer [TS]

  wacky alien spellings because i don't [TS]

  necessarily picture the people while I'm [TS]

  reading a book read you try to pronounce [TS]

  the words in my head and what I have to [TS]

  deal with the red chai and there are no [TS]

  that was a joke that was I thought that [TS]

  her or was a really funny joke i am [TS]

  always amused by that the early were [TS]

  like six ours that's the desert name [TS]

  yeah that's there because when you talk [TS]

  to them to her [TS]

  ok my my other issues that sort of held [TS]

  me up in this book from really loving it [TS]

  was having at the characterization I [TS]

  found tough at times in terms of you can [TS]

  have likable characters and unlikable [TS]

  characters and I thought most of the [TS]

  characters in this book were unlikable [TS]

  or I did not like them i should say I [TS]

  guess get some garden is at least for [TS]

  the first half of the book is made to be [TS]

  extremely unpleasant [TS]

  oh yeah and I in fact as the i will say [TS]

  as the book concluded i felt more [TS]

  sympathy towards the Varden than any of [TS]

  the other characters it's I need a break [TS]

  to a certain extent but the problem is [TS]

  breakfast seems and I having that [TS]

  identity confusion almost makes break a [TS]

  blank page right and so there are some [TS]

  moments where you get to see that kid [TS]

  the character of bread do interesting [TS]

  things I thought the scene with the [TS]

  bridge [TS]

  you know that's sort of the selfless [TS]

  moment where she realizes that part is [TS]

  going to fall and so jumps off a bridge [TS]

  to save some garden and you know [TS]

  encouragement great image and it's a [TS]

  great realtor results yeah what was it [TS]

  that is a moment where I was like all [TS]

  right I feel like I'm now getting on [TS]

  board with these characters but it does [TS]

  get i think that is the challenge of [TS]

  writing a character that is supposed to [TS]

  be a construct which is to say [TS]

  brooke has a personality but not [TS]

  necessarily that it's lacking something [TS]

  of its humanity and that may be part of [TS]

  the point but it is it makes it [TS]

  difficult for me to step into the shoes [TS]

  and empathize with that character also [TS]

  from a plot perspective so much of this [TS]

  plot seems to hinge on the coincidental [TS]

  meeting of some garden and brick at the [TS]

  beginning which and I know they make [TS]

  repeated reference to the fact that the [TS]

  the wrench i don't see coincidences [TS]

  right everything is everything is a [TS]

  coincidence is actually the hand of god [TS]

  or yeah but it is a he like there's a [TS]

  carrot garden has been lost for a [TS]

  thousand years and it happens to show up [TS]

  on the planet where break is walking and [TS]

  like I don't know that I you got to go [TS]

  with it because it starts off the book [TS]

  and that's basically what a way to get [TS]

  things going but it seemed just so [TS]

  incredibly implausible to me i didn't [TS]

  bother me because I figured that if [TS]

  you've been e.t.a I on a ship in this [TS]

  Empire for all that time you've met [TS]

  thousands and thousands of officers and [TS]

  for one of them to end up facedown in a [TS]

  ditch 1,000 years out of time [TS]

  yeah well I was in here is that seems [TS]

  like I mean you know when they're [TS]

  talking about people who live like 200 [TS]

  years like which is already pretty long [TS]

  but you know I don't know it just right [TS]

  but you live all that you live all the [TS]

  time and you meet what you know hundred [TS]

  thousands and thousands of people in [TS]

  this Empire and then you run into one I [TS]

  don't know it didn't seem entirely [TS]

  unlikely to me and it didn't seem like [TS]

  her in her plan that doesn't hinge on [TS]

  him it just turns out that he is an [TS]

  effective tool to further the plan I [TS]

  wasn't sure why he needed to be out of [TS]

  time either that that seemed odd to me [TS]

  that's just it's entertaining at times [TS]

  but it didn't seem like there was a [TS]

  whole lot of point to it [TS]

  well he's disconnected so much like [TS]

  breakfast yeah disconnected but they are [TS]

  part of this society there are integral [TS]

  parts of the society but they're [TS]

  disconnected right I feel like it would [TS]

  have been interesting if he was one out [TS]

  of time or if he was one of our officers [TS]

  but combining those two just seemed like [TS]

  keeping too much stuff on this one [TS]

  character there are many characters but [TS]

  Scott Scott's right it's he he is messed [TS]

  up his identity is lost because he's [TS]

  lost all of the cultural significance as [TS]

  long as house you know so that's how [TS]

  he's out of time and and when i get that [TS]

  completely i guess my point was that [TS]

  seem like enough convenient also need to [TS]

  be one of her officers not right but [TS]

  maybe that's just me [TS]

  alright brother there is a lot in this [TS]

  book I mean I guess I think I think [TS]

  that's true i think that is actually one [TS]

  of my problems I I thought that the [TS]

  gender thing was really clever and yet [TS]

  it did so many layers like Monty said [TS]

  you know do you need a 7-layer burrito [TS]

  I'm not sure [TS]

  that's a lot of lists let's take one [TS]

  layer I out of the brain later on all [TS]

  right love the layers [TS]

  fair enough but it did give me that Ian [TS]

  banks vibe i die i like that i also i [TS]

  get the feeling and correct me if I'm [TS]

  wrong but you know what we're seeing is [TS]

  is these aren't these are these cultures [TS]

  are alien but they're the people in them [TS]

  are humans right there humans yes in the [TS]

  future of humans and then they formed [TS]

  all these different empires and cultures [TS]

  on these different planets and these [TS]

  guys happen to be this very militaristic [TS]

  awful empire that is taking over all the [TS]

  other planets and then they meet the [TS]

  actual aliens who decided that they are [TS]

  gonna not put up in yeah well to imply [TS]

  that there are I thought it was implied [TS]

  that there were other aliens that they [TS]

  had encountered before that but I guess [TS]

  you're right or the are the one the [TS]

  super-powerful once they meet they just [TS]

  have met their match [TS]

  are there more than their magic yeah [TS]

  right because they talked about the fact [TS]

  that the actual reg is a Dyson Sphere [TS]

  somewhere and nothing non-human was [TS]

  allowed to enter it and all that stuff [TS]

  so and the actual wrench doesn't know [TS]

  about the Empire around which was it [TS]

  that was wrong way life was really fun [TS]

  read the Empire is actually an ancillary [TS]

  because the actual it ratchets fear is [TS]

  completely insular and you just can't [TS]

  even go [TS]

  you mustn't be looked at kept pure [TS]

  yeah the Empire created the whole empire [TS]

  just to protect this is buffers around [TS]

  this thing nobody can get into around [TS]

  and that's why I like this book so much [TS]

  because they're so bad like that's like [TS]

  a two-line thing and that's like you [TS]

  could write a whole book just about that [TS]

  i want to read that book that reminded [TS]

  me of foundation actually LOL we brought [TS]

  a little sorry but it had to happen we [TS]

  started recording but it's it it [TS]

  reminded me of a little bit where it's [TS]

  this you know out on the far reaches [TS]

  there's this little Enclave that's been [TS]

  set up and everything that's happening [TS]

  around it is just part of you know the [TS]

  the side effects of their little game [TS]

  that they're playing inside their little [TS]

  sphere I thought that what i thought it [TS]

  was pretty cool [TS]

  yeah I mean there's so much here I [TS]

  enjoyed this book a lot i didn't [TS]

  consider the best book I read last year [TS]

  or anything like that because I think [TS]

  again I although i have read to mean [TS]

  banks now and i like it might recognize [TS]

  the style it's not my very favorite kind [TS]

  of book but there is so much here in any [TS]

  book that makes me think of you in banks [TS]

  makes me think of Ursula Gwyn that's got [TS]

  all these different games that it's [TS]

  playing I mean what I took out of it [TS]

  Scott [TS]

  you know I I'm saying that I didn't [TS]

  think it was my favorite book of last [TS]

  year when i got out it was like oh my [TS]

  god this is her first novel is [TS]

  requesting it's up it for a first-time [TS]

  novelist it kind of blew me away that [TS]

  that it is she's not taking it easy this [TS]

  is the high degree of difficulty and she [TS]

  does a good job he would really does she [TS]

  does that if she doesn't win the hugo [TS]

  which i think is it may not happen she [TS]

  should certainly win what is the [TS]

  Campbell for best new novelist right [TS]

  because i think this is this is just a [TS]

  stunning debut even if you don't think [TS]

  it's the best book you've read this year [TS]

  for first-time novelist write something [TS]

  like this is pretty great [TS]

  yeah i agree I agree it's definitely [TS]

  worth reading I thought both of these [TS]

  books were we're totally worth reading [TS]

  alright let's take a break for our [TS]

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  and thanks to New Relic for sponsoring [TS]

  the incomparable i would like to briefly [TS]

  complain about the ending [TS]

  ok yes oh yes yes you were talking about [TS]

  about the princess bride ending earlier [TS]

  and this this too has an ending that [TS]

  sort of like say everybody characters [TS]

  who remained alive [TS]

  let's team up and explore the universe [TS]

  together like I don't like having a plot [TS]

  that hinges on a character like I like a [TS]

  plot where a character is bent on [TS]

  vengeance and is straight striding [TS]

  straightforward with steely [TS]

  determination to all sorts of obstacles [TS]

  great and then when our protagonist gets [TS]

  to wear our protagonist was going yeah [TS]

  gives up what the hell let's go do [TS]

  something else like I felt like the end [TS]

  of the book I'd stepped off a cliff put [TS]

  a pin in it where they say I actually [TS]

  we're gonna put you in terms of a ship [TS]

  come back later for the sequel [TS]

  never mind about the whole reason you [TS]

  were reading the book [TS]

  well maybe it's trying to do they try to [TS]

  explain it away well you did take out [TS]

  some of the Emperor's and that's really [TS]

  shoot and Emperor like one out of two [TS]

  thousand bodies or whatever i don't and [TS]

  and now you're on a call with lap you [TS]

  know but there's a new mission to do [TS]

  this other thing that could also be [TS]

  interesting and and you know you don't [TS]

  really have much choice on the matter [TS]

  I it's there and it's engineered and [TS]

  that was the part that made me laugh is [TS]

  that I get why why she does that at the [TS]

  end but at the same time it's sort of [TS]

  like congratulations you're now the [TS]

  captain of the starship enterprise and [TS]

  you're annoying sidekick he can be your [TS]

  first officer don't have adventures kids [TS]

  like this doesn't really fit with how I [TS]

  expected everybody to sort of end up you [TS]

  know shot to death at the end yeah [TS]

  wouldn't be good way to start a series [TS]

  that would be what he and banks would do [TS]

  those Scott it is what even banks would [TS]

  do but his serious generally don't have [TS]

  the same characters i like a resolution [TS]

  and this book felt seems like it just [TS]

  refused to give it to know at the end it [TS]

  seems like it [TS]

  the pilot of of serious right yeah like [TS]

  and that's how they became the captain [TS]

  and first officer of a starship there's [TS]

  gonna be more of these called you know [TS]

  ancillary revenge and ancillary love [TS]

  actually believe the next one is called [TS]

  ancillary mercy haha I mercy not making [TS]

  that up that's what it's that's that to [TS]

  believe that if you look at wikipedia [TS]

  page and so every sword ancillary mercy [TS]

  and I believe that an ancillary love [TS]

  will be the next one much but so what [TS]

  was weird for me when reading this was i [TS]

  I was finishing it up and i was reading [TS]

  my kindle you get that little progress [TS]

  bar at the bottom and i thought i had a [TS]

  whole chapter left and it turned out [TS]

  that's just all the crap that they put [TS]

  at the end like an interview with the [TS]

  offer and other stuff and I was so I got [TS]

  to that chapter with her like all right [TS]

  going onto the ship and like all right [TS]

  so I got one more chapter know that was [TS]

  the end of the book that's a better dad [TS]

  then all is all that crap for book clubs [TS]

  at the end who does book i skipped all [TS]

  that bunch of jerks that too [TS]

  that's I don't need that no I mean I i [TS]

  don't want to sound like i was too down [TS]

  on this book i did enjoy it wasn't--oh [TS]

  yeah I i agree with Jason I I was not my [TS]

  favorite book I read last year but that [TS]

  I think is more function of just the [TS]

  pipes types of books that I really like [TS]

  and this is a book that i liked but I [TS]

  didn't love i'm a check out the sequel's [TS]

  we'll see what you know what the buzz on [TS]

  those when they come out but I there's a [TS]

  lot of motti I think it's totally hit [TS]

  the nail on the head there's so many [TS]

  ideas I was interesting them but I feel [TS]

  like it would have benefited a little [TS]

  more from just a little more focus [TS]

  yeah i certainly liked the book i just [TS]

  didn't fall head-over-heels in love with [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah yeah I liked a lot i well i will [TS]

  read the the sequel I i was impressed [TS]

  and I I did love the love the richness [TS]

  of it but I did feel like it was a [TS]

  little too much stuff in the in the in [TS]

  the pot or too many layers memory know [TS]

  if we go back to the taco bell metaphor [TS]

  which I'm not married too many burritos [TS]

  in the pot what a burrito in every pot I [TS]

  say put more burritos in that pot more [TS]

  layers and burritos in the pot as you're [TS]

  a communist cat we didn't even talk [TS]

  about the fact that this is the this a [TS]

  is famous for singing songs and there's [TS]

  that that whole thing which is this [TS]

  weird like is it a person is it not [TS]

  it's got its got these strange quirks [TS]

  yeah they never really explained whether [TS]

  the AI [TS]

  is an AI or has an independent can act [TS]

  independently or not really but I felt [TS]

  like that was on purpose so I didn't [TS]

  well and I didn't like the fact that it [TS]

  really came down to the fact that every [TS]

  they talked about the fact that all the [TS]

  ships have their favorites [TS]

  you know and also the people like at the [TS]

  end of the day those in salaries there's [TS]

  still something person like about them [TS]

  that it came down to the fact that that [TS]

  killing who we haven't really talked [TS]

  about that story thread that much but [TS]

  the the whole sort of flashback story [TS]

  thread where we see the Emperor order [TS]

  eventually the death of this lieutenant [TS]

  who is you know beloved 200 extent which [TS]

  others who paraded who prevented a [TS]

  massacre right and that's essentially [TS]

  what sets this whole thing in motion is [TS]

  because she can't she can't stand that [TS]

  justice of Toren can't stand that shoots [TS]

  the Emperor and the upper destroys the [TS]

  ship and to me that was the cool part [TS]

  for me because I again I felt the most [TS]

  empathy with that character that point [TS]

  who you know felt that they had to do [TS]

  what they were ordered because they are [TS]

  in AI but also you know had this whole [TS]

  freewill action of like all right and [TS]

  now I'm gonna kill you because you made [TS]

  me do something really bad and i'm going [TS]

  to send and then that's a really [TS]

  exciting scene where sense the this one [TS]

  ancillary into the escape pod basically [TS]

  to go off and yeah and you're like oh no [TS]

  that's how that's how this happened [TS]

  that's how I know I took me a minute to [TS]

  put those those pieces together but when [TS]

  you realize that I think that is a great [TS]

  as a great moment of Noah so that's how [TS]

  we get back i think it would be funny if [TS]

  in a later book we discover that the [TS]

  Emperor's two halves are split exactly [TS]

  along male and female lines [TS]

  ah but nobody can tell right haha how we [TS]

  how we know you good one of the bad one [TS]

  there's no way to tell make sure to have [TS]

  your Emperor spayed and neutered [TS]

  something that I think the damage that i [TS]

  want to bring up again is that one thing [TS]

  that I did bother me like i said earlier [TS]

  i like the fact that we don't just see [TS]

  this kind of cool setup we do get the [TS]

  background where we really where we [TS]

  settle witnessed the horrors of this [TS]

  Empire at close range that how these [TS]

  corpse soldiers bodies come to be [TS]

  available [TS]

  and what they do when they take over [TS]

  these planets one thing that I felt that [TS]

  this book did shy away from and i [TS]

  thought was unfortunate maybe she'll [TS]

  deal with it in the later installment [TS]

  but I never I never felt that this book [TS]

  dealt with who the who the person who [TS]

  the body was before it was taken over by [TS]

  the justice of Toren and I i'm sorry i [TS]

  don't believe that uh a person and and [TS]

  their body and their brain is going to [TS]

  be completely vacant with whatever [TS]

  science-fictional process puts an AI in [TS]

  it and if they have favorites and if [TS]

  these bodies all have sort of things [TS]

  that are quirky about them you know [TS]

  that's really because it was a human [TS]

  being before and that human being is [TS]

  probably still there in some way and to [TS]

  not deal with that at all which I felt [TS]

  like this book really didn't think it's [TS]

  too bad because we are ultimately this [TS]

  is going person is going back to being a [TS]

  person i was a little disappointed i [TS]

  don't necessarily need like a flashback [TS]

  where she suddenly has memories that she [TS]

  didn't know we're there that's of her [TS]

  childhood and all that I don't you know [TS]

  that that that would be kind of hokey [TS]

  but I just that I felt it kind of [TS]

  advocated responsibility for that we are [TS]

  our hero who were following here was [TS]

  somebody who died and we don't know who [TS]

  they were and we don't get any real [TS]

  sense other than that well you know this [TS]

  is the body that happened to survive [TS]

  there's a passing reference the doctor [TS]

  offers to put the old personality back [TS]

  in charge and breakfast says oh so you [TS]

  want a personality you approve of [TS]

  instead of me [TS]

  yeah they're going to shrugs and get on [TS]

  with their lives but yeah that's not [TS]

  good enough [TS]

  alright i before we go I want to do a [TS]

  really quick round of what are we [TS]

  reading books that we read lately that [TS]

  we would like to talk about and [TS]

  recommend or condemned as the case maybe [TS]

  if you want to be a very negative person [TS]

  Scott what about you what it what are [TS]

  you reading what am I really currently [TS]

  i'm reading what is called the Gini and [TS]

  the golem [TS]

  I am NOT I'm about a third of the way [TS]

  through and it's very good [TS]

  it's about a genie and go from everybody [TS]

  oh I don't spoil predictable in uh I [TS]

  think early nineteen hundreds of new [TS]

  york city so really really i've heard [TS]

  many good things about that book and [TS]

  it's called the golden the genie I think [TS]

  it's which I don't know you have [TS]

  whatever time nothing about that but [TS]

  it's really good so far I haven't [TS]

  finished it could you know get really [TS]

  crappy i also read a nonfiction book [TS]

  called empty mansions which is getting a [TS]

  lot of press and it was fantastic so if [TS]

  you want some nonfiction check that all [TS]

  right Dan what about you what are you [TS]

  reading [TS]

  well i just read this book you might [TS]

  hurt called ancillary just tell us all [TS]

  about it i did just finish that today so [TS]

  i picked up a new book yet the most [TS]

  recent book i read before that was the [TS]

  third book in the peter grant series the [TS]

  rivers of London series huh whispers [TS]

  underground which I which I liked [TS]

  I've enjoyed that series been around [TS]

  events I i just bought the second one of [TS]

  those yeah I've like them a bit I and I [TS]

  think they improve as they go along i'm [TS]

  looking for i think the fourth one comes [TS]

  out in a month or so and i'm about to [TS]

  pick up i don't have it in front of me [TS]

  but I one of the books i got for [TS]

  christmas which is a nonfiction book [TS]

  about TE Lawrence that I really am [TS]

  interested in reading so that's the next [TS]

  thing on my my to-do list all right [TS]

  Monty what about you what are you [TS]

  reading [TS]

  well I just finished reading a book [TS]

  called ultimate porno with the making of [TS]

  a sex colossal what I go on connexion [TS]

  very high browse it's nonfiction it's by [TS]

  the assistant director of Caligula and [TS]

  it's about how that movie got made and [TS]

  it is fascinating huh wow it will not [TS]

  surprise you to learn that the making of [TS]

  that movie was ridiculous [TS]

  that's who woulda thought not like Ron [TS]

  every level and I've also just started [TS]

  reading the film noir reader which is a [TS]

  collection of [TS]

  essays on fillmore alright like the [TS]

  essay that defined film noir in 1955 i [TS]

  think i really hope the title of this [TS]

  episode is ultimate porno the making of [TS]

  a sex colossal it's probably not but the [TS]

  country and you think you know what [TS]

  Caligula involved you do not just the [TS]

  casting process for all the people in [TS]

  the background you think you can only [TS]

  imagine you can't even imagine Jason [TS]

  what are you reading my thanks for [TS]

  asking Scott I I've been reading right [TS]

  now I'm reading crux by run as nom which [TS]

  is the sequel to Nexus which I read last [TS]

  year I good so far nexus a really good [TS]

  book about in the near future and people [TS]

  yeah put this drug in their body called [TS]

  nexus that basically networks their [TS]

  brain and put some operating system in [TS]

  the brain they can connect to other [TS]

  people and it's sort of the beginning of [TS]

  possibly creating a hive mind but [TS]

  governments are afraid of it are trying [TS]

  to destroy it and there may be an [TS]

  artificial intelligence or at least an [TS]

  Augmented formerly human intelligence [TS]

  that's now taking over computers and [TS]

  Robyn's mom is a use for Microsoft he [TS]

  writes nonfiction he also writes fiction [TS]

  now and he is a a smart guy and there's [TS]

  some really interesting attack [TS]

  extrapolation stuff in it so I'm really [TS]

  enjoying crux i finished over the [TS]

  holiday break i read love minus eighty [TS]

  by will mcintosh which is based on his [TS]

  Hugo nominated short story called bride [TS]

  sickles which is about in the future [TS]

  they they cure death but most people who [TS]

  are horribly who are dying a horrible [TS]

  accident they can cure death but they [TS]

  have to also fix all the things that are [TS]

  wrong with them and somebody apparently [TS]

  has a brilliant idea that particularly [TS]

  attractive dead people could be brought [TS]

  back to life by rich men to marry them [TS]

  which is super as creepy it's creepier [TS]

  than it sounds in fact is that creepy [TS]

  and this book this book is expands on [TS]

  that and there's a there's a guy hits [TS]

  guy boy meets girl boy gets girl with [TS]

  his car girl dies boy feels really [TS]

  guilty boy goes and visits her corpse in [TS]

  the corpsicle pod but doesn't have [TS]

  enough money to actually bring her back [TS]

  to life and it goes from there I friend [TS]

  of the of the podcast Tom Green [TS]

  recommended to me as his favorite book [TS]

  of 2013 [TS]

  it was I would say it was fine i didn't [TS]

  I i enjoyed it [TS]

  I i would say it's like The Love [TS]

  Actually of sci-fi novels it's more of a [TS]

  sci-fi romantic comedy [TS]

  uh we're like I said girl is hit by car [TS]

  and yet all the characters are defined [TS]

  by their romantic relationships or lack [TS]

  of same it's all about love triangles [TS]

  and who's dating who even though it's [TS]

  set in this weird near future world [TS]

  where they've you know there's a vast [TS]

  difference between the rich and the poor [TS]

  and some people have sort of led into [TS]

  the countryside and all that and yet in [TS]

  the middle of it it's just a big warm [TS]

  romantic comedy strange [TS]

  not bad just very strange and I I i was [TS]

  reading it expecting something else was [TS]

  like okay this is love actually got it [TS]

  got it [TS]

  it's right there in the title of minus [TS]

  eighty and then the other novel i read [TS]

  over the break with shadow ops control [TS]

  point by my coal which dan recommended [TS]

  to me and you know I like to be a [TS]

  positive person on this podcast so what [TS]

  I'll say is I thought it was kind of a [TS]

  disaster and um iphone kind of and i [TS]

  don't i don't recommend it to anybody [TS]

  but and i feel kind of bad to say this [TS]

  because I know Dan liked it and that by [TS]

  Cole seems to be a very nice guy on the [TS]

  internet but it is a gigantic mess with [TS]

  lots of characters who are incredibly [TS]

  stupid doing things that make no sense [TS]

  in order to have a plot that isn't that [TS]

  great [TS]

  so don't don't read it sorry Dan I'll i [TS]

  won't say anything because he is a [TS]

  friend haha I i read that book i read [TS]

  this i read the sequel as well I believe [TS]

  Scott Scott read it as well I think I [TS]

  think we both felt more positive about [TS]

  it than you did I guess it's true [TS]

  so I'd like to thank my guests for [TS]

  reading the books and coming here to [TS]

  talk about them [TS]

  the only only three could do it only [TS]

  three were up to the challenge they have [TS]

  the superheroes of the incomparable book [TS]

  club and they are [TS]

  Scott McNulty thank you for being here [TS]

  Jason you're my favorite ancillary oh [TS]

  thank thank you [TS]

  I'm did you did you murder me before [TS]

  making me an ancillary that's the [TS]

  question [TS]

  well we'd let's let dwell on the team [TS]

  that's fair enough let's just enjoy the [TS]

  relationship right now she's my favorite [TS]

  male female I don't know she's my [TS]

  favorite whenever you people with your [TS]

  humans and your gender doesn't blah blah [TS]

  blah [TS]

  Monty Ashley thank you very much for [TS]

  being here thank you i enjoy reading [TS]

  books ah books are nice and clean about [TS]

  them [TS]

  yes that that's also nice and dan moore [TS]

  and I could say you're my favorite [TS]

  actually but i might be lying you might [TS]

  you might be false facing you with [TS]

  reference to both books dancing thank [TS]

  you much [TS]

  the knives of dead more everybody and [TS]

  thanks everybody out there for listening [TS]

  to the uncomfortable and reading books [TS]

  the people who write books thank you for [TS]

  reading books combined [TS]