Roderick on the Line

Ep. 06: "String Art Owls, Copper Pipe, and Bono's Boss"


00:00:08   other commercials now [TS]

00:00:11   no we mean like email and like like [TS]

00:00:14   standard like TV commercials or like [TS]

00:00:16   yeah sometime maybe even fake commercial [TS]

00:00:18   commercial like me like thank our ok [TS]

00:00:21   this this episode brought to you by [TS]

00:00:23   Merlin salve I know I I haven't thought [TS]

00:00:29   I haven't sought sponsorship it's not [TS]

00:00:33   that I would you know turn the money [TS]

00:00:34   away but i will not my impression of how [TS]

00:00:37   you web people made your money [TS]

00:00:40   yeah was that you made something and [TS]

00:00:43   then you sold advertising space all [TS]

00:00:45   around it [TS]

00:00:46   yeah until the thing itself was the size [TS]

00:00:48   of a can of tuna virtually obscured and [TS]

00:00:50   then there was advertising you know [TS]

00:00:52   flashing at you and offer you click here [TS]

00:00:54   and you get a million dollars yet here [TS]

00:00:57   and your dick will be twice as big [TS]

00:00:59   yes isn't that what so how why should [TS]

00:01:01   the show be any different [TS]

00:01:02   that first of all the answer question [TS]

00:01:04   that is a that is a very popular model [TS]

00:01:06   for making money on the web and it's one [TS]

00:01:08   that was one that I've employed some [TS]

00:01:10   people go with subscription models [TS]

00:01:11   that's where you know you a certain [TS]

00:01:13   amount of money and you get a certain [TS]

00:01:14   amount of stuff but that doesn't really [TS]

00:01:15   work nobody subscribe to my loving the [TS]

00:01:17   web do that [TS]

00:01:18   yes some people do i think one problem [TS]

00:01:20   is that people get you know there's a [TS]

00:01:23   phenomenon that happens on the web that [TS]

00:01:24   you can see sometimes in things like [TS]

00:01:26   reviews for software where if people try [TS]

00:01:28   to if you read reviews of software [TS]

00:01:30   alright alright already been around much [TS]

00:01:33   smaller now we're talking [TS]

00:01:34   and the thing is if you charge for [TS]

00:01:36   anything you know [TS]

00:01:38   so a you know like if somebody was dead [TS]

00:01:41   take out can we get some quiet on the [TS]

00:01:42   set here you guys if you want to talk to [TS]

00:01:44   you [TS]

00:01:45   fuck off somewhere thanks appreciate it [TS]

00:01:48   wow you're not going to take charge of [TS]

00:01:51   this [TS]

00:01:51   yeah filmmaker I'm gonna have to do [TS]

00:01:53   something the thing is I what I all [TS]

00:01:55   these hippies doing in the yard anyway [TS]

00:01:56   I've got out you have some pot to smoke [TS]

00:01:58   I've got you should load up a hacky sack [TS]

00:02:01   I've got that what they call I the tiger [TS]

00:02:02   in the business [TS]

00:02:04   yeah so i can zoom right in and the [TS]

00:02:08   distractions from me or just oh I see [TS]

00:02:10   what you're saying yeah you know I don't [TS]

00:02:12   I because i'm a rock musician of course [TS]

00:02:14   the drugs have given me a really short [TS]

00:02:16   attention span and I hear hear [TS]

00:02:19   not just voices [TS]

00:02:21   in the yard but voices all around really [TS]

00:02:23   accidentally it's hard for me to [TS]

00:02:25   concentrate [TS]

00:02:26   mhm but anyway you were saying about how [TS]

00:02:28   you make money [TS]

00:02:29   yeah i'm curious about this oh no way we [TS]

00:02:32   were talking about advertising on your [TS]

00:02:33   show [TS]

00:02:34   yeah there's no advertising but you're [TS]

00:02:35   right people of be buying buying ads [TS]

00:02:38   they also will do I think of more [TS]

00:02:40   conventional less idiotic way to do it [TS]

00:02:44   is with which we call sponsorship so I'm [TS]

00:02:45   i turned the camera and say I'm I'm you [TS]

00:02:47   know sponsored by Roderick south for all [TS]

00:02:52   of your of burning needs and then they [TS]

00:02:56   call that a DJ it's not film me a call [TS]

00:02:58   that a DJ read okay it goes back to the [TS]

00:03:01   days of radio it's Bobby I like maalox [TS]

00:03:03   right or what has brought to you by [TS]

00:03:05   Carl's jr. that's my girls doing very [TS]

00:03:07   precisely and i think that's that's the [TS]

00:03:09   way that some people are doing it you [TS]

00:03:11   know it's a that that's that's the [TS]

00:03:13   internet and how people are but you're [TS]

00:03:15   not doing that either no not so right [TS]

00:03:17   now this is just literally losing money [TS]

00:03:19   while i'm talking this is just like [TS]

00:03:20   downloading somebody's music for free [TS]

00:03:23   you're offering you're putting your [TS]

00:03:24   record on the internet for free [TS]

00:03:27   yeah hoping that it generates traffic to [TS]

00:03:30   some place that makes you money [TS]

00:03:32   I just want people to like me and have [TS]

00:03:35   affection for me and I'm willing to [TS]

00:03:36   subsidize whatever it takes right well [TS]

00:03:38   we're in the same business really you [TS]

00:03:39   feel like you put it out there and and [TS]

00:03:43   you you have a big developer affection [TS]

00:03:45   for you huh yeah and that that affection [TS]

00:03:47   will one day translate into money [TS]

00:03:49   yeah is that am i right but to possibly [TS]

00:03:52   see what you do this you do this I guess [TS]

00:03:54   we both do something like this for a [TS]

00:03:56   living I guess he is kind of my living [TS]

00:03:57   you know your urine and different boat [TS]

00:04:00   than you were a few years ago but the [TS]

00:04:03   thing is when you're a musician a lot of [TS]

00:04:05   people who work jobs in the straight [TS]

00:04:08   world actually people of all stripes are [TS]

00:04:11   constantly trying to tell you how much [TS]

00:04:14   your job itself is its own reward [TS]

00:04:18   like oh wow you know touring is so great [TS]

00:04:21   you're so lucky and money has to just be [TS]

00:04:25   like so far down the list of of your [TS]

00:04:28   motivations because you get to travel [TS]

00:04:30   you get to you know play your music for [TS]

00:04:33   people and and it's it's I'm super [TS]

00:04:37   grateful that people spend so much time [TS]

00:04:40   telling me all the reasons why i should [TS]

00:04:42   be glad that I'm not getting paid for [TS]

00:04:45   the various things in the best people [TS]

00:04:46   that are of course the promoters for the [TS]

00:04:48   show or you know the people that run [TS]

00:04:50   your understand how how valuable the [TS]

00:04:52   publicity is yeah they understand how [TS]

00:04:55   valuable it is that you be convinced [TS]

00:04:57   that the three free beers they put in [TS]

00:04:59   your dressing room are adequate [TS]

00:05:01   compensation there you having driven [TS]

00:05:03   eight hours to play their logic their [TS]

00:05:04   logic is often fractal though right [TS]

00:05:06   because their logic their logic is it or [TS]

00:05:08   at least recursive it so it's really you [TS]

00:05:10   know you're using a lot of words I don't [TS]

00:05:12   worry for you to be able to come out [TS]

00:05:13   here and play the the fallen oak [TS]

00:05:16   festival this year I can't even tell you [TS]

00:05:18   how many people we couldn't get on the [TS]

00:05:20   building's you do you understand how [TS]

00:05:21   much press is gonna be here for the [TS]

00:05:23   fallen oak festival that's right you go [TS]

00:05:24   well you know I had a fucking pack of [TS]

00:05:26   van and drive here and pay my band and [TS]

00:05:29   they go but you know this is this a [TS]

00:05:31   publicity alone this is a huge [TS]

00:05:32   opportunity and you but to play the ass [TS]

00:05:35   polyp of benefit yeah because it's good [TS]

00:05:38   because I a lot of going to be a lot of [TS]

00:05:39   exposure and to a demographic that a lot [TS]

00:05:42   of people don't get their music exposed [TS]

00:05:44   to set your table with a spot for people [TS]

00:05:46   to love them so you've got really that [TS]

00:05:49   the beauty then is it's a very very [TS]

00:05:50   rarefied vertical market you're moving [TS]

00:05:52   into with the polyp crowd [TS]

00:05:53   yeah yeah but see but didn't know that's [TS]

00:05:55   that's what's funny though is that it's [TS]

00:05:56   very seldom you think what this is one [TS]

00:05:58   thing you encounter on the web and in [TS]

00:06:00   the in the music business and is by the [TS]

00:06:02   way it is music business that's not show [TS]

00:06:04   friends let's show pretty special about [TS]

00:06:06   the business is that about credit [TS]

00:06:09   Johnson now because whenever i quote him [TS]

00:06:11   without crediting him yeah he creates a [TS]

00:06:13   letter he regularly because he doesn't [TS]

00:06:15   send it he writes to the to the tune of [TS]

00:06:17   heaven knows i'm miserable now this [TS]

00:06:19   Smith I just like to point out that my [TS]

00:06:22   chair is fully six inches lower than [TS]

00:06:24   Merlin so if it seems like with the [TS]

00:06:26   stand I don't play stupid John I don't [TS]

00:06:28   want [TS]

00:06:28   make sure the audio but you know you [TS]

00:06:30   know you know how this works [TS]

00:06:32   yeah I know I know yeah this is my house [TS]

00:06:34   word let's switch for a minute just know [TS]

00:06:37   i like to see no you want so the kids [TS]

00:06:38   can see the difference in hell if we see [TS]

00:06:40   it you'll have to zoom out [TS]

00:06:42   yeah to he's probably having trouble [TS]

00:06:43   keeping our heads and frame as it is [TS]

00:06:45   headspace it's had a lot of cough [TS]

00:06:46   medicine earlier today but it but this [TS]

00:06:49   this happens on with web stuff that [TS]

00:06:51   happens with music stuff and God knows [TS]

00:06:53   what happens with film stuff because we [TS]

00:06:54   have some friends who do film stuff and [TS]

00:06:57   I it's there are so many people who work [TS]

00:06:59   lying she even be just vaguely [TS]

00:07:02   associated with certain industries that [TS]

00:07:04   they'll give up a lot a lot of times you [TS]

00:07:05   called an internship or what happened [TS]

00:07:07   and people higher up the food chain [TS]

00:07:09   really exploit that in every one of the [TS]

00:07:12   entertainment businesses like the [TS]

00:07:15   perceived glamour is a is a major form [TS]

00:07:18   of pay for people who are breaking into [TS]

00:07:21   any industry like oh man you know you're [TS]

00:07:23   going to meet Bono's personal assistants [TS]

00:07:26   sister tonight maybe she's on the list [TS]

00:07:30   yeah she might not come but you may get [TS]

00:07:33   the driver to the US here is a shame [TS]

00:07:35   nothing wrong with that and and and and [TS]

00:07:37   and it's great because a whole I mean [TS]

00:07:39   that is how people get into the business [TS]

00:07:40   initially but after you've been doing [TS]

00:07:42   anything for a while you're like yeah [TS]

00:07:44   yeah great Bono's personal assistants [TS]

00:07:46   what I don't you know like I've got not [TS]

00:07:49   not just bills to pay but i have like a [TS]

00:07:51   certain amount of mean you know me I [TS]

00:07:53   have it I have a little bit of a dignity [TS]

00:07:54   problem in that I might have a little [TS]

00:07:57   too much dignity or i might perceive [TS]

00:07:59   that boil it down to a single dignity [TS]

00:08:01   problem is when a constellation of [TS]

00:08:03   dignity issues i have dignity issues a [TS]

00:08:05   compilation of them but one of them is [TS]

00:08:07   one of one of the things that I get my [TS]

00:08:09   backup about is when you know when [TS]

00:08:12   people are telling me why I should be [TS]

00:08:14   satisfied with less than they would give [TS]

00:08:17   someone else because of the because of [TS]

00:08:20   the perceived intangible benefits of my [TS]

00:08:23   job which is yeah screwing teenagers [TS]

00:08:26   blow not having to work sleeping all day [TS]

00:08:33   right i mean these are real benefits [TS]

00:08:36   yeah i was very wrong their purpose its [TS]

00:08:39   of the of your vertical mark [TS]

00:08:41   right but when somebody said wanted [TS]

00:08:43   someone somebody sitting in a back room [TS]

00:08:44   of a club with a cigar in their mouth [TS]

00:08:45   and accounting hundred-dollar bills and [TS]

00:08:48   telling me that that that the the [TS]

00:08:51   teenage girl that I'm about to go shag [TS]

00:08:54   in the van is part of my pay for the [TS]

00:08:56   night [TS]

00:08:57   i jacked yeah we want the Nash talk but [TS]

00:09:00   here's here's the thing is their days [TS]

00:09:01   off [TS]

00:09:03   yeah I'm sorry I didn't you know you [TS]

00:09:04   can't be careful if you get to go back [TS]

00:09:06   i'm talking right into the camera [TS]

00:09:07   yeah that's as good generally threaten [TS]

00:09:10   people because I want people to like me [TS]

00:09:12   the the one part of that but i think is [TS]

00:09:15   always so interesting is the the [TS]

00:09:18   unstated and Status exchanges that go on [TS]

00:09:21   and the power exchange stuff that goes [TS]

00:09:23   on where for a lot of those interests or [TS]

00:09:25   for that let's say bottom of the bill [TS]

00:09:26   band was watching the guy peel off the [TS]

00:09:28   hundreds they understand that they're [TS]

00:09:29   not in a position to say hey wait a [TS]

00:09:31   minute i need to escalate this and we [TS]

00:09:33   need to talk a little bit about like [TS]

00:09:34   what's actually going on here no you [TS]

00:09:36   know what you're right and one thing I [TS]

00:09:38   think is a probably your credit is is [TS]

00:09:40   your i have I can't even tell you how [TS]

00:09:42   many times you seem to really seemed to [TS]

00:09:43   really relish the opportunity to go talk [TS]

00:09:46   to the guy with the hundred-dollar bills [TS]

00:09:47   and fucking set him straight about [TS]

00:09:49   exactly how it's going to work and it's [TS]

00:09:50   fun to watch but i think a lot of people [TS]

00:09:53   are happy to just infer that the part of [TS]

00:09:56   the manager but they're part of this [TS]

00:09:58   glamour industry and happy that you know [TS]

00:10:00   what I'm just glad to be playing at at [TS]

00:10:02   the doo-dah bar tonight it's just on a [TS]

00:10:04   friday instead of a tuesday at least [TS]

00:10:06   it's not like LA where we just have to [TS]

00:10:07   pay you know it's right in seattle jim [TS]

00:10:09   has a pay-to-play in saddle you know but [TS]

00:10:12   the I mean there are there are places [TS]

00:10:13   you can pay to play [TS]

00:10:14   ok but the version of pay-to-play is [TS]

00:10:16   just that you pay for you play for free [TS]

00:10:18   and you watch the bar you know sell five [TS]

00:10:21   thousand dollars worth of of [TS]

00:10:22   jagermeister shots and you're like so [TS]

00:10:25   that money's going somewhere [TS]

00:10:26   yeah but i think it in computers and [TS]

00:10:28   also in in rock I don't know whether [TS]

00:10:30   it's that it attracts uh [TS]

00:10:34   not meet people but people who are [TS]

00:10:37   afraid of appearing aggressive afraid of [TS]

00:10:42   afraid of offending people and so good [TS]

00:10:44   so you get people who who will who are [TS]

00:10:49   waiting for somebody to hand them the [TS]

00:10:52   authority there waiting for somebody to [TS]

00:10:55   to to say now you have the authority to [TS]

00:10:58   stand up for yourself and until that [TS]

00:10:59   point you just have to behave yourself [TS]

00:11:02   but that will come externally it's not [TS]

00:11:05   something that they're gonna bring to [TS]

00:11:07   the situation they're never going to [TS]

00:11:08   coronation that they're waiting for I [TS]

00:11:09   think right there waiting to be there [TS]

00:11:11   waiting to for there for there were blog [TS]

00:11:14   or their their site or their band to be [TS]

00:11:18   unquestionably big enough that people [TS]

00:11:21   just genuflected them and give them that [TS]

00:11:24   that that they earn respect by virtue of [TS]

00:11:27   the of the the thing they produce rather [TS]

00:11:30   than commanding respect by some by some [TS]

00:11:33   other method by some by just by just [TS]

00:11:37   embodying somebody who who is who isn't [TS]

00:11:41   going to take it in the shorts and the [TS]

00:11:47   the challenges I mean obviously I like I [TS]

00:11:49   in some in some circles I have a [TS]

00:11:51   reputation of being I don't know how you [TS]

00:11:55   would say an abrasive for you [TS]

00:11:59   yeah arrogant maybe mm whoo [TS]

00:12:04   and I think that's a miss [TS]

00:12:08   miss missed opportunity for people to to [TS]

00:12:15   learn from you to learn what all all [TS]

00:12:18   that i have the TV you know I I feel I [TS]

00:12:21   feel like what what what often gets [TS]

00:12:22   called arrogance or abrasiveness on my [TS]

00:12:25   part [TS]

00:12:25   yeah is really like in any other [TS]

00:12:27   business when a man does its assertive [TS]

00:12:29   right if I if I was a contractor like [TS]

00:12:32   that behavior would be necessary to get [TS]

00:12:35   the job done right you've got guys [TS]

00:12:36   coming in late you've got guys coming in [TS]

00:12:38   hungover you gotta get the frame-up you [TS]

00:12:41   gotta get the concrete board and you [TS]

00:12:43   have to you know you have to bust some [TS]

00:12:45   heads and you also have to say hey [TS]

00:12:47   you're shortchanging me on copper pipe [TS]

00:12:49   yeah and because everybody's trying to [TS]

00:12:51   shortchange everybody on copper pipe [TS]

00:12:53   it's the it's the way of the world but [TS]

00:12:55   in the music business if you call [TS]

00:12:57   somebody out for shortchanging you on [TS]

00:12:58   the unload the load of lumber whatever [TS]

00:13:01   that load of lumber is there's this uh [TS]

00:13:03   the the typical reaction is like oh man [TS]

00:13:06   that's so uncool hard to work with [TS]

00:13:09   oh yeah John Roderick man is really like [TS]

00:13:12   such she such dick because that because [TS]

00:13:15   the the currency the lingua franca of [TS]

00:13:18   these creative businesses is this [TS]

00:13:21   incredibly passive kind of like it's [TS]

00:13:23   cool man you know I know you said that [TS]

00:13:25   we were going to get $1,500 and you're [TS]

00:13:27   only giving us like eleven dollars but [TS]

00:13:29   that's cool you know it's your clubs [TS]

00:13:32   righteous and you're cool dude and we'll [TS]

00:13:34   get you next time you know and I just [TS]

00:13:37   think it's horseshit [TS]

00:13:38   yeah and I'm sure I'm sure it happens in [TS]

00:13:41   the in the web business too although i [TS]

00:13:44   can't i can't picture away in which you [TS]

00:13:47   guys would ever actually speak to each [TS]

00:13:48   other face-to-face so now like your [TS]

00:13:49   emails like hi emoticon [TS]

00:13:52   no Robin LOL that's what we do we will [TS]

00:13:58   speak we speak to each other mostly in [TS]

00:14:01   this kind of this kind of yeah this [TS]

00:14:04   fatwa punctuation a little round around [TS]

00:14:07   smiley face and whose eyelashes going [TS]

00:14:09   like that's that's I've used that set [TS]

00:14:12   yeah there's there's on the web a lot of [TS]

00:14:17   a lot of the [TS]

00:14:19   there's a cat here a lot of the power if [TS]

00:14:23   you will comes from quantifiable things [TS]

00:14:27   like traffic or how high up on google [TS]

00:14:30   you appear for certain returns and so it [TS]

00:14:33   is kind of weird that whether you want [TS]

00:14:36   to participate in this or not there are [TS]

00:14:38   ways in which you're not only being [TS]

00:14:40   evaluated but in some ways people are [TS]

00:14:42   very obsessively following the stuff in [TS]

00:14:44   the way we're adding ranking ranking [TS]

00:14:46   that's right at anyway is in the way [TS]

00:14:47   that you might for example not you but [TS]

00:14:49   somebody who's who's putting out records [TS]

00:14:51   might sit much soundscan and go okay [TS]

00:14:53   well I really need to see what happens [TS]

00:14:55   on week two of this release except on [TS]

00:14:57   the webz if you have a website that's [TS]

00:14:59   your franchise whatever it's an ongoing [TS]

00:15:00   thing and then to reach the certain kind [TS]

00:15:03   of perceived level of highness [TS]

00:15:06   you know it brings with it you know lots [TS]

00:15:09   of weirdness [TS]

00:15:10   let's just say it's it's it's it's funny [TS]

00:15:13   though but the word from personal [TS]

00:15:14   experience now but yeah yeah absolutely [TS]

00:15:15   cross a certain threshold your life [TS]

00:15:17   change but don't know it's a first-world [TS]

00:15:18   problem bi be a dick to complain about [TS]

00:15:20   it but that it definitely is like like [TS]

00:15:22   it's so for example let's say you won [TS]

00:15:25   the lottery tomorrow all the sudden [TS]

00:15:26   you're going to hear from a lot of [TS]

00:15:28   relatives and and people with cancer and [TS]

00:15:31   whatnot right and and it's it's just [TS]

00:15:34   interesting because what it comes down [TS]

00:15:36   to the always some share DNA with the [TS]

00:15:38   music industry which is you want to in [TS]

00:15:41   some way as much as possible ingratiate [TS]

00:15:44   yourself in acceptable ways to people [TS]

00:15:47   who can stand to give you more of the [TS]

00:15:50   stuff whether that's an inbound link or [TS]

00:15:52   a mention or something like that in the [TS]

00:15:54   same way the people in your industry are [TS]

00:15:55   constantly sucking up to magazines and [TS]

00:15:58   trying to get on TV shows or whatever [TS]

00:16:00   the interesting thing about it is that [TS]

00:16:01   from every from every evil from every [TS]

00:16:03   level of it looking upward [TS]

00:16:05   you always imagine that the next the [TS]

00:16:08   next level will be the level at which [TS]

00:16:10   you'll have to start you'll be able to [TS]

00:16:12   stop sucking up to the level above you [TS]

00:16:14   right and in my experience there is that [TS]

00:16:17   never arrives [TS]

00:16:18   like I don't know who borrow sucks up to [TS]

00:16:20   you learn this from the Robert Evans [TS]

00:16:22   biography right you know you always [TS]

00:16:23   there's always somebody at charlie [TS]

00:16:25   bluhdorn you've always got somebody [TS]

00:16:26   above you that you've got to be pleasing [TS]

00:16:28   every level got somebody about mirror [TS]

00:16:29   auditioning again [TS]

00:16:30   and yeah for the next level and I think [TS]

00:16:32   with Bono it's I I don't think he has to [TS]

00:16:34   maybe suck up to anybody but there are [TS]

00:16:36   people there are those invisible people [TS]

00:16:39   whose names maybe aren't in the press [TS]

00:16:43   who are controlling access to places [TS]

00:16:46   that bono wants access to right he has [TS]

00:16:48   to he can't come in and piss on the [TS]

00:16:50   carpet in the entryway just because he's [TS]

00:16:53   bono because these guys aren't aren't [TS]

00:16:55   impressed [TS]

00:16:56   here's the thing and this is this is [TS]

00:16:59   this is the great myth that it would [TS]

00:17:01   really have been swell if I had learned [TS]

00:17:03   when I was 14 which is i really be [TS]

00:17:06   coming from like you know they make a [TS]

00:17:08   master at the same way too many times [TS]

00:17:09   you lose figure boring right here this [TS]

00:17:11   meet the stranger you know I don't know [TS]

00:17:13   that 14 you got good at that [TS]

00:17:15   yeah the the thing of it is that you [TS]

00:17:18   always eat n plus i tended to think that [TS]

00:17:21   such a thing is like whatever arriving [TS]

00:17:23   and you get this one place right now [TS]

00:17:24   here's the here's here's the tricky part [TS]

00:17:26   about this and again i want to credit [TS]

00:17:27   mr. robert evans two great the great [TS]

00:17:28   producer for this is that you realize [TS]

00:17:31   that in some ways [TS]

00:17:32   okay first of all the older you get the [TS]

00:17:34   more you realize you have to lose at any [TS]

00:17:35   given time so so something like Bono and [TS]

00:17:38   you're in your example from earlier you [TS]

00:17:41   know Bono may not have anybody who he [TS]

00:17:43   looks at his boss photos but it's got a [TS]

00:17:46   lot of skin in the game in a lot of [TS]

00:17:47   different ways and it is curiously I [TS]

00:17:50   suspected it's a curiously American 20th [TS]

00:17:54   century plus conceit to think that there [TS]

00:17:57   are people in the world who don't worry [TS]

00:17:59   about things like where they are and [TS]

00:18:00   status and improving and keeping it all [TS]

00:18:02   together just because they got more [TS]

00:18:03   money than me or because I got more [TS]

00:18:04   whatever than me right [TS]

00:18:06   and I guess the only thing i want to say [TS]

00:18:07   is that no matter who you are no matter [TS]

00:18:08   where you are there's always there's [TS]

00:18:10   always that sense of I don't know I just [TS]

00:18:14   suspect there's always there's always [TS]

00:18:15   something that you want to retain if not [TS]

00:18:18   game there's always something that you [TS]

00:18:20   want to keep together and having that [TS]

00:18:21   skin in the game is what keeps you [TS]

00:18:23   that's what keeps us all from becoming [TS]

00:18:25   you know Spartan warriors or whatever [TS]

00:18:28   you know i think that i think the Bush [TS]

00:18:30   presidency has has Illustrated that [TS]

00:18:33   better than almost anything in the sense [TS]

00:18:35   that they were that we always felt like [TS]

00:18:37   all the president is beholding to this [TS]

00:18:41   back room [TS]

00:18:42   group of of faceless man who are you [TS]

00:18:47   know the puppet masters but with George [TS]

00:18:51   W [TS]

00:18:52   it's never been more apparent that he is [TS]

00:18:55   ostensibly the most powerful man in the [TS]

00:18:58   United States and he actually turns to [TS]

00:19:00   the guy sitting next to him to see if [TS]

00:19:02   the answer he's giving the camera is [TS]

00:19:04   correct [TS]

00:19:05   you know he's he's visibly up he's [TS]

00:19:10   visibly beholding to something larger [TS]

00:19:13   than he is he's he still ain't even as [TS]

00:19:15   president the united states is not able [TS]

00:19:18   to sit back and say I've arrived and now [TS]

00:19:21   I'm the decider as he's as he says you [TS]

00:19:24   know they're he's he's being stage [TS]

00:19:26   managed by powers beyond our [TS]

00:19:30   comprehension and I don't or not even [TS]

00:19:32   not not that's the best part about it's [TS]

00:19:34   not beyond our comprehension they're [TS]

00:19:35   sitting right exactly what you up and [TS]

00:19:37   you know who it is it's like it's like [TS]

00:19:39   Dick Cheney and about seven other guys [TS]

00:19:40   who are like ahead George George yeah [TS]

00:19:43   you're doing real good you doing real [TS]

00:19:44   good and and the and understanding that [TS]

00:19:47   that's true in every business that even [TS]

00:19:50   bono and i dunno if you're watching [TS]

00:19:53   I don't want to i'm not i'm not slagging [TS]

00:19:55   you off I haven't ya mad respect for you [TS]

00:19:57   yeah but I'm even bono there's somebody [TS]

00:20:00   out there and I don't know whether it's [TS]

00:20:01   the chairman of seagrams or whether it's [TS]

00:20:04   nelson mandela or I don't know who it is [TS]

00:20:08   a person that has pictures that the [TS]

00:20:09   compromising pictures of him [TS]

00:20:11   there's there no one is completely free [TS]

00:20:14   mhm i think that should be the the model [TS]

00:20:15   of your show [TS]

00:20:16   no what no one is completely free yeah [TS]

00:20:18   yeah but you are and now but there's a [TS]

00:20:20   softer side of this to that I think it's [TS]

00:20:22   worth mentioning which is that they're [TS]

00:20:23   actually if this is not all the farias [TS]

00:20:26   inside baseball industry backroom [TS]

00:20:28   cigar-smoking stuff a lot of this like [TS]

00:20:31   you know i'm happy to say that I really [TS]

00:20:32   really like a lot of the people that [TS]

00:20:35   I've met through doing stuff with the [TS]

00:20:36   web [TS]

00:20:37   just as I know you've made great friends [TS]

00:20:38   by touring the world with your band and [TS]

00:20:43   meeting people along the way so I mean [TS]

00:20:44   it's not all it's not all there's [TS]

00:20:46   something to be said though like you [TS]

00:20:47   know like easy I've seen you happier on [TS]

00:20:50   some I've seen you a lot happier on some [TS]

00:20:52   viewers than others just by virtue of [TS]

00:20:55   the fact that [TS]

00:20:55   you got along really well and felt [TS]

00:20:57   mutual respect with the people that you [TS]

00:20:59   are touring yeah that there are I mean [TS]

00:21:01   intangible benefits are the reason that [TS]

00:21:04   you do something like this they are the [TS]

00:21:06   main benefits yeah I didn't know never [TS]

00:21:08   meant to suggest that that they weren't [TS]

00:21:10   but my objection is when other people [TS]

00:21:14   trying trying to tell you that the [TS]

00:21:16   intangible benefits are worth the thirty [TS]

00:21:20   percent of the money that they're not i [TS]

00:21:21   gotta tell you i think it's a deeper [TS]

00:21:22   thing for you I think you are uncannily [TS]

00:21:25   incapable of handling anything that you [TS]

00:21:27   perceive this bullshit i think i think [TS]

00:21:29   you are almost sociopathic in the way [TS]

00:21:31   that you cannot let bullshit stand and [TS]

00:21:35   yet I'm often accused of being a [TS]

00:21:37   bullshit ru ru ru huge bullshit artist [TS]

00:21:39   but that doesn't make you somebody who [TS]

00:21:41   is a guy I've just seen this I can't [TS]

00:21:44   tell you how many dozen times I've seen [TS]

00:21:46   something happens and it catches the [TS]

00:21:48   corner of your eye and it's big claws [TS]

00:21:51   come out and you've got to go in and [TS]

00:21:53   you're not gonna be happy and so you've [TS]

00:21:54   put your front paws on the shoulders and [TS]

00:21:56   your back claws into the gut and kind of [TS]

00:21:59   run in place for a while in order to [TS]

00:22:00   order to exercise every last bit of [TS]

00:22:03   bullshit there's you know there's [TS]

00:22:04   bullshit and there's bullshit and i [TS]

00:22:06   think that the the kind of bullshit for [TS]

00:22:08   instance that that you got the guy [TS]

00:22:10   peeling off hundred-dollar bills would [TS]

00:22:11   you not call that a piece of bullshit [TS]

00:22:12   that you've got a call-out not just for [TS]

00:22:14   financial reasons absolute almost for [TS]

00:22:16   moral reasons absolutely there's the [TS]

00:22:17   there's the bullshit that you've turned [TS]

00:22:18   into a career [TS]

00:22:19   yeah which is harmless bullshit caught [TS]

00:22:21   the good does it doesn't affect anyone [TS]

00:22:23   except in a sort of like you know what's [TS]

00:22:25   that [TS]

00:22:26   that sound it's comforting at all right [TS]

00:22:28   Merlin Mann uh-huh [TS]

00:22:29   and then there's bullshit please you [TS]

00:22:31   find comforting bullshit that has that [TS]

00:22:34   where there's real skin like songs about [TS]

00:22:36   spies like that that would be like what [TS]

00:22:38   kind of bullshit songs about spies yeah [TS]

00:22:40   i was about spies are there helping [TS]

00:22:42   America they are there helping people [TS]

00:22:43   understand their feelings about spies [TS]

00:22:46   yeah comas and that's what I'm that's [TS]

00:22:48   that's what I'm trying to show you about [TS]

00:22:50   huh [TS]

00:22:50   so is my kind of bullshit know there's [TS]

00:22:52   our kind of bullshit yeah there's [TS]

00:22:54   bullshit which is a form of [TS]

00:22:55   entertainment and there's bullshit which [TS]

00:22:56   is a form of obfuscation yes where you [TS]

00:22:59   are bullshitting in order to distract [TS]

00:23:01   the person so that you can make off with [TS]

00:23:05   this is actually covered in that book on [TS]

00:23:07   bullshit which very short book that I [TS]

00:23:09   have on board yeah do you agree that [TS]

00:23:10   this is along those lines it is you have [TS]

00:23:11   a certain kind you have a certain kind [TS]

00:23:13   of i'm empress paraphrasing what you [TS]

00:23:15   just said was a certain kind of very [TS]

00:23:16   inert just kind of bullshit bullshit as [TS]

00:23:20   a form of passing the day I mean if you [TS]

00:23:22   walk down the street in athens again [TS]

00:23:24   there r45 old man sitting on every [TS]

00:23:28   stupid yes bullshitting that's 10 [TS]

00:23:30   minutes [TS]

00:23:30   it's the it's the lubricant social [TS]

00:23:32   lubricant that makes the world a [TS]

00:23:34   pleasant is so-so a toupee that [TS]

00:23:36   somebody's wearing as they walk around [TS]

00:23:37   is a kind of benign bullshit but a kind [TS]

00:23:40   of a kind of like putting a gun to [TS]

00:23:41   somebody's had to make them trying [TS]

00:23:42   believe that that's a real to pay is a [TS]

00:23:44   kind of intolerable bullshit [TS]

00:23:45   yeah where I mean a toupee toupee on the [TS]

00:23:48   head of a guy who's walking down the [TS]

00:23:50   street and he's just you can see in his [TS]

00:23:53   eyes that he believes that he has a full [TS]

00:23:54   head of hair and he believes everyone [TS]

00:23:56   else believes that he has a full head of [TS]

00:23:57   hair is long as it's harmless but [TS]

00:23:59   otherwise we can live with but I but a [TS]

00:24:01   toupee like the one on Ben Affleck which [TS]

00:24:05   is a whole career [TS]

00:24:06   mm I mean his career is founded on the [TS]

00:24:09   fact that he's a young and virile full [TS]

00:24:13   you have that you have a flat problems i [TS]

00:24:16   have a certain I i think it it crosses [TS]

00:24:19   the line into a different kind of [TS]

00:24:20   bullshit yeah when you are when you are [TS]

00:24:22   presenting I mean like Sean Connery for [TS]

00:24:24   instance when he when he exposed himself [TS]

00:24:27   as a as a to paid man he he empowered [TS]

00:24:31   himself that by saying like the this is [TS]

00:24:35   a costume [TS]

00:24:36   I'm wearing this as a costume yeah and [TS]

00:24:38   so I can appear in a film with with a [TS]

00:24:39   full head of hair and we know i'm [TS]

00:24:41   playing a role [TS]

00:24:42   yeah whereas somebody like Ben Affleck [TS]

00:24:43   who is who is never appears without his [TS]

00:24:47   fake hair and he's a movie star this [TS]

00:24:50   metaphorical hair it's metaphorical hair [TS]

00:24:53   okay yeah it's it's the equivalent of [TS]

00:24:55   talent to pay of of a breast implant [TS]

00:24:59   which is not which is not advertise [TS]

00:25:00   itself from friends Pamela Anderson's [TS]

00:25:02   breasts employee yes the advertise [TS]

00:25:04   themselves as implants [TS]

00:25:06   yes I have no objection to them because [TS]

00:25:08   she is she's a car to them so been out [TS]

00:25:10   of analytes career is like a nigga what [TS]

00:25:12   like a 32b implant [TS]

00:25:14   oh no I supplying android i have no way [TS]

00:25:17   of knowing whether Ben Affleck has male [TS]

00:25:19   pattern baldness like say yours [TS]

00:25:21   for male pattern baldness likes a fully [TS]

00:25:23   ball person like your friend here [TS]

00:25:24   yeah but but his career is founded on [TS]

00:25:31   his hair kind of it to a certain extent [TS]

00:25:34   Ben Affleck was if he appeared bald on [TS]

00:25:36   camera [TS]

00:25:37   yes I don't know whether I mean he has [TS]

00:25:39   the option i think of appearing in a [TS]

00:25:40   film without his hair [TS]

00:25:43   yeah and being perceived as like you're [TS]

00:25:45   not talking about metaphorical hair [TS]

00:25:46   you're saying Ben Affleck wears a piece [TS]

00:25:48   oh yeah really oh you be sure about that [TS]

00:25:51   absolutely [TS]

00:25:52   huh you can tell no I can't [TS]

00:25:56   yeah it's made out of its like woven out [TS]

00:25:58   of the pubic hair of Vietnamese mother's [TS]

00:26:00   hey huh currently in Vietnam it seems [TS]

00:26:05   very lush that's what I'm saying [TS]

00:26:07   huh what is that won't need a lot of [TS]

00:26:10   rice now they do [TS]

00:26:12   yeah yeah and it's salty fish but you [TS]

00:26:15   find that intolerable [TS]

00:26:16   no I'm saying across across a wine I [TS]

00:26:19   don't know Ben Affleck's hair is a crime [TS]

00:26:22   against humanity right but i think [TS]

00:26:24   there's a difference between his hair [TS]

00:26:25   and sean connery's here [TS]

00:26:27   yeah I agree well you know what kind of [TS]

00:26:28   pioneered all that was the with the [TS]

00:26:30   weather guy on the today show what's his [TS]

00:26:32   name the guy used to be the big guy [TS]

00:26:34   wilford brimley Wilford Brimley's at his [TS]

00:26:35   name anybody i know will for now Roker [TS]

00:26:38   the other guy [TS]

00:26:39   oh the the big guy have a big loud guy [TS]

00:26:42   what was his name [TS]

00:26:43   thank you well as scholars scholars [TS]

00:26:45   Scott which it would charge would charge [TS]

00:26:47   you differently depending on whether he [TS]

00:26:49   wore his little hair hat he charged you [TS]

00:26:51   more [TS]

00:26:51   it was part of his deal is deal was I'm [TS]

00:26:53   with Scott I'm going to show up and it's [TS]

00:26:55   going to be Willard Scott but if you [TS]

00:26:57   were a little hair hat my charge a [TS]

00:26:59   little more [TS]

00:26:59   really yeah which I think see I think [TS]

00:27:01   that's that that's got it takes a huge [TS]

00:27:03   amount of self conscience consciousness [TS]

00:27:06   that I that I i find almost intoxicating [TS]

00:27:09   yeah I should come up with a version of [TS]

00:27:11   that after yourself [TS]

00:27:13   yeah like different glasses frames or [TS]

00:27:14   maybe whether i have the comedy biker [TS]

00:27:17   mustache or not you want me there [TS]

00:27:19   i'm there a lot of anybody a mustache [TS]

00:27:21   little more work which version of [TS]

00:27:23   colorful John will you bring to the [TS]

00:27:24   shell like the idea right [TS]

00:27:26   yeah and all right that's a nice John [TS]

00:27:30   bullshit and [TS]

00:27:31   scene and seen I'm saying that I'm [TS]

00:27:33   saying that crossword puzzles and Sudoku [TS]

00:27:36   yeah and and solitaire [TS]

00:27:41   uh-huh rr4 retirement people you don't [TS]

00:27:45   see any analogy with making things like [TS]

00:27:47   bottle cap like making a pop-top art or [TS]

00:27:50   decoupage or string our towels [TS]

00:27:53   it's awful retarded people but I know [TS]

00:27:55   the joy of making the string our owl i [TS]

00:27:57   think i think that that people to make [TS]

00:27:59   string art owls are not just making them [TS]

00:28:01   out of a motivated purely by the joy of [TS]

00:28:04   negative status mean I think they're [TS]

00:28:05   making it in order to have to have it [TS]

00:28:07   made and then they have the string or [TS]

00:28:09   towel and they intend to do something [TS]

00:28:10   either give it as a gift [TS]

00:28:11   yeah the wall or you've never made a [TS]

00:28:14   string are now on your entire life i [TS]

00:28:17   have made a lot of string art owl have [TS]

00:28:19   you made a ship i have made a ship made [TS]

00:28:22   a straight i made a guy made a ship on a [TS]

00:28:23   string art yeah we're hammer the nails [TS]

00:28:25   into a piece of absolutely when you [TS]

00:28:27   string the string the ship is the [TS]

00:28:28   classic but I wasn't making it out of [TS]

00:28:30   the joy of making it and we were [TS]

00:28:31   conniving well you made it official [TS]

00:28:33   conniving about it yeah you couldn't [TS]

00:28:35   just make a ship because he wanted to [TS]

00:28:36   make a ship if you if you are not gonna [TS]

00:28:39   get you later if you're motivated to [TS]

00:28:40   make something i don't think that I [TS]

00:28:42   don't and I think joy is a lot of joy is [TS]

00:28:45   a lot easier to come by then then [TS]

00:28:47   getting some tax and some felt in making [TS]

00:28:49   a ship not for some people i think it is [TS]

00:28:52   I think every I mean joy is pretty [TS]

00:28:56   simple like paint-by-number people just [TS]

00:28:58   like the mechanics of doing this is why [TS]

00:29:00   sudoku or crossword people like the [TS]

00:29:03   simple like this is something that I can [TS]

00:29:04   do i'm going to just move my hands and [TS]

00:29:06   think a little bit and watch my watch my [TS]

00:29:08   stories false people paint by numbers [TS]

00:29:10   and then they put it on the wall and if [TS]

00:29:12   you put it on now that's retarded if you [TS]

00:29:15   put it on the wall if you put a frame [TS]

00:29:16   around it and put it on the wall yeah [TS]

00:29:17   you weren't you you don't think of it as [TS]

00:29:20   just an exercise of the hand like people [TS]

00:29:24   okay if there are people out there [TS]

00:29:25   particularly anyone who's watching who [TS]

00:29:27   paint by numbers and then immediately [TS]

00:29:28   throws the thing away [TS]

00:29:29   yeah and it's just an exercise like this [TS]

00:29:32   is something i do to keep my hands [TS]

00:29:33   occupied lobby waiting for the clothes [TS]

00:29:35   to dry your almost French these kinds of [TS]

00:29:39   things that you come up we'll wait [TS]

00:29:40   different you're very you're very close [TS]

00:29:42   to French [TS]

00:29:43   in fact you are friends i am so not for [TS]

00:29:46   any way you look I don't look fresh and [TS]

00:29:47   all you look totally friends last time [TS]

00:29:49   you're in France like never I was in [TS]

00:29:51   France of two weeks ago all over [TS]

00:29:54   everywhere I like your sis you're ready [TS]

00:29:56   just like you know you they look like me [TS]

00:29:57   yeah they look like you you know I think [TS]

00:29:59   that's because of your stupid fat eyes [TS]

00:30:01   and the way the he see people because [TS]

00:30:04   I'm you're like the Jerry Lewis of [TS]

00:30:06   France in my dreams in my dreams I don't [TS]

00:30:11   know you know what's funny i'll tell you [TS]

00:30:12   this this is the classic this is the [TS]

00:30:14   classic argument what that people have [TS]

00:30:16   about art but if it's classic it's [TS]

00:30:18   definitely stupid people people people [TS]

00:30:20   want art to be pure yeah and so they [TS]

00:30:24   believe that people make art out of a [TS]

00:30:28   out of a directly from their heart to [TS]

00:30:31   the brush unmotivated by is like saying [TS]

00:30:36   like strippers like to dance because [TS]

00:30:38   they like wearing high heels [TS]

00:30:39   you know it's just that that's so far [TS]

00:30:41   off like like how stuff gets gets made [TS]

00:30:45   I'm but my mind is still trying to groc [TS]

00:30:49   the stripper high heel and groc why did [TS]

00:30:52   you read that and wired few years back [TS]

00:30:54   arthur c clarke is that right yeah [TS]

00:30:56   that's my mom really plan to your shirt [TS]

00:30:59   for the little lady Clarke yeah you can [TS]

00:31:01   literally throwing a couple things like [TS]

00:31:02   what likelike uhf an eight-track oh wow [TS]

00:31:06   I had no idea you were so up-to-date i [TS]

00:31:08   know i got credible well I I was [TS]

00:31:10   actually having an RSS feed the other [TS]

00:31:12   day and I have that down to an RSS feed [TS]

00:31:16   whatever it was it was beta [TS]

00:31:18   uh-huh yeah I right but you were able to [TS]

00:31:21   grow kit for the most attractive yeah [TS]

00:31:22   you know groc is a lot older than you [TS]

00:31:24   web people when people are always [TS]

00:31:28   looking for words because you don't use [TS]

00:31:30   worries we only web Peter you don't look [TS]

00:31:32   you don't mean me and my army of web [TS]

00:31:34   page so you repurpose word right because [TS]

00:31:37   you don't make words yourselves and [TS]

00:31:40   that's I mean I I into hiding after [TS]

00:31:42   working out what called butthole the [TS]

00:31:43   webwork we've been working on butthole [TS]

00:31:46   yeah well you know because they do [TS]

00:31:47   differently like yeah if you got [TS]

00:31:49   10 in it but yeah exactly [TS]

00:31:54   I the whole colon hear anything here's [TS]

00:31:57   and i'm curious like I don't think I've [TS]

00:31:58   ever ask you this in the seemingly [TS]

00:32:00   endless conversations I've had with you [TS]

00:32:02   so I had always heard mostly because the [TS]

00:32:05   jar should know you don't talk to me [TS]

00:32:07   like that I don't know who shared our [TS]

00:32:08   1,900 1,900 and 82 I was there I got it [TS]

00:32:13   I got it I got a twenty-dollar not even [TS]

00:32:15   a no-name it's a sub no-name guitar and [TS]

00:32:18   I was running on no that's not accurate [TS]

00:32:22   was in tenth grade and I i learn to play [TS]

00:32:26   guitar and I cannot tell you that [TS]

00:32:28   there's so many mythologies of high [TS]

00:32:30   school that I just find unacceptable [TS]

00:32:33   including those are the best years of [TS]

00:32:34   your life but that if you learn to play [TS]

00:32:36   guitar [TS]

00:32:37   you'll get girls right right which I [TS]

00:32:39   found to be completely untrue [TS]

00:32:41   in my experience is the bass players [TS]

00:32:42   you're still upset that you didn't lose [TS]

00:32:43   your virginity to your 22 well well ask [TS]

00:32:46   me again when I'm but I'm I so so i [TS]

00:32:49   think it's interesting that you take [TS]

00:32:50   something like guitar which is basically [TS]

00:32:52   it's a musical instrument for retarded [TS]

00:32:54   people very easy to learn you know you [TS]

00:32:57   you probably got good at it in and what [TS]

00:32:59   34 weeks probably [TS]

00:33:01   oh no I i labored over the guitar for [TS]

00:33:03   years I was I didn't become good at the [TS]

00:33:06   guitar [TS]

00:33:07   ask me again yeah until I was in my late [TS]

00:33:11   twenties I think and even then not [TS]

00:33:14   really good yeah i would argue i'm not [TS]

00:33:16   i'm still not good people pick up the [TS]

00:33:18   stuff like that though the thread here [TS]

00:33:19   though is that people pick up stuff like [TS]

00:33:21   that because because why I mean I for me [TS]

00:33:25   i really liked being able to play along [TS]

00:33:27   with Black Sabbath record right like and [TS]

00:33:29   so I can when I learned pinball wizard [TS]

00:33:30   and play along with tommy that was like [TS]

00:33:33   what I imagine sex was like I think I [TS]

00:33:35   think that the guys who actually pick up [TS]

00:33:38   the guitar motivated by a desire to get [TS]

00:33:39   girls you can see them a mile away and [TS]

00:33:42   they are there fuck stains every one of [TS]

00:33:44   them [TS]

00:33:45   yeah most people who pick up the guitar [TS]

00:33:47   do not do it because they imagine it's [TS]

00:33:49   going to get him girls they do it for a [TS]

00:33:51   pure adolescent boy your courier yeah [TS]

00:33:54   which is just like yeah yeah like [TS]

00:33:59   I'm you know like the the girl was not [TS]

00:34:01   even in it you want to be Pete Townsend [TS]

00:34:03   yes and being Pete Townsend seems like [TS]

00:34:05   the end at of itself understand heating [TS]

00:34:09   get girls with it either i don't know [TS]

00:34:10   that i've never seen a picture of p-town [TS]

00:34:12   with a girl [TS]

00:34:13   yeah have you ever seen a picture of him [TS]

00:34:15   with a girl he's in that we're looking [TS]

00:34:16   at Turner i challenge you people [TS]

00:34:18   watching this on the web to immediately [TS]

00:34:20   click on to google and search for Pete [TS]

00:34:24   and untroubled um address my viewers I'm [TS]

00:34:26   it sickens me somebody playing the [TS]

00:34:28   basketball when I when I first started [TS]

00:34:30   playing the guitar it was not a guitar [TS]

00:34:32   first of all it was a tennis racket and [TS]

00:34:35   it was it was actually fairly for the [TS]

00:34:40   joy of it and i was learning nothing by [TS]

00:34:43   playing the tennis racket to to choose a [TS]

00:34:48   wrist or Judas Priest yeah I learned [TS]

00:34:50   what your earlier you were a big we've [TS]

00:34:52   talked about this [TS]

00:34:54   def leppard Judas Priest first first two [TS]

00:34:56   dayz top records a early ZZ top and [TS]

00:34:58   breathe the Iron Maiden ac/dc and you [TS]

00:35:02   know what what do you get out of sitting [TS]

00:35:04   in an empty house and going like and [TS]

00:35:07   dared to turn their back on tennis [TS]

00:35:09   racket you know yeah anything no it's [TS]

00:35:12   like Matt out Matt masturbation it's the [TS]

00:35:14   equivalent of play solitaire but I mean [TS]

00:35:16   happiness [TS]

00:35:17   yeah i would play the tennis racket [TS]

00:35:19   until sweat was pouring down my face huh [TS]

00:35:23   i would i would do it like and I don't [TS]

00:35:26   know and what I was two hours obviously [TS]

00:35:27   I'm I was daydreaming I was having it [TS]

00:35:29   was having a this like these verdant [TS]

00:35:33   fields of imagination of me what you [TS]

00:35:36   thought it felt like to play guitar in [TS]

00:35:38   ac/dc that's right play guitar and every [TS]

00:35:40   page with the with the the crowd and [TS]

00:35:42   you're very familiar with the visual i [TS]

00:35:44   mean like this is probably a little more [TS]

00:35:45   French philosophy that we want to get [TS]

00:35:46   but use your so familiar with the sound [TS]

00:35:49   that you heard over and over and over [TS]

00:35:50   and over [TS]

00:35:50   right right you just leave the little [TS]

00:35:52   tonearm thing up and place I plays over [TS]

00:35:53   and over and then you've seen probably [TS]

00:35:56   the videos you seen in cream in whatever [TS]

00:35:59   guitar for the Pakistan musician you've [TS]

00:36:01   seen all this stuff so you feel like [TS]

00:36:04   you've got everything except the ability [TS]

00:36:06   to play guitar the magic only missing [TS]

00:36:07   piece you've imagined it imagine it and [TS]

00:36:09   then have a certain point I think as a [TS]

00:36:11   listen boy you have to transform it into [TS]

00:36:13   some kind of something physical yeah the [TS]

00:36:15   physical action of participating in your [TS]

00:36:17   imaginative fantasy and it's why you [TS]

00:36:21   know it's why it's not enough to sit and [TS]

00:36:22   imagine playing war you have to go out [TS]

00:36:25   and play war with your friends and [TS]

00:36:27   you're not actually shooting each other [TS]

00:36:28   your attention eh oh yeah and I think [TS]

00:36:32   and and and imagining myself playing [TS]

00:36:35   guitar on a stage was was a i think that [TS]

00:36:40   the thing that got me to actually first [TS]

00:36:42   figure out what's that first course so [TS]

00:36:45   frustrating gotta learn that so it's [TS]

00:36:46   just like if I could have taken a pill [TS]

00:36:48   and gone from pictures of matchstick men [TS]

00:36:53   into being able to actually go smoothly [TS]

00:36:55   smoothly smoothly right I would have [TS]

00:36:56   taken that pill in a second it was crazy [TS]

00:36:58   and you're the quote that I've heard a [TS]

00:36:59   million times that I think applies to [TS]

00:37:01   all kinds stuff it's not how many years [TS]

00:37:03   you played how many hours you play right [TS]

00:37:04   like maybe you can get really good at [TS]

00:37:06   guitar if you really work at it [TS]

00:37:08   seriously for like two or three months [TS]

00:37:09   you can get pretty okay guitar at least [TS]

00:37:12   you have any dexterity at all which I [TS]

00:37:13   don't really know I my hand is like a [TS]

00:37:16   unique flavor immediately so you're [TS]

00:37:18   playing along with dirty deeds [TS]

00:37:20   you're just going to eat your player [TS]

00:37:21   playing open chords yeah at this point [TS]

00:37:23   right [TS]

00:37:23   okay wewe trying to speak following on [TS]

00:37:26   solos [TS]

00:37:27   oh you know but I just don't have I [TS]

00:37:28   can't there's no speed you can see my [TS]

00:37:30   hand doesn't respond to commands from my [TS]

00:37:32   brain [TS]

00:37:32   I just I don't you just be honest but [TS]

00:37:34   we're not we're not altering this at all [TS]

00:37:35   this is actual real time that's his [TS]

00:37:37   quickest John can move his hand it's [TS]

00:37:40   just it's hard to even sit here and [TS]

00:37:42   watch it but but it's true and i see i [TS]

00:37:43   see people our age people into their [TS]

00:37:45   thirties still being frustrated by [TS]

00:37:48   collect huh [TS]

00:37:49   thank you people into our early thirties [TS]

00:37:51   people who just have crossed into their [TS]

00:37:53   30 huh [TS]

00:37:55   or-or-or letter of the idea [TS]

00:37:58   um I see them time and time again being [TS]

00:38:02   frustrated by the fact that in their [TS]

00:38:03   imagination they are much better at the [TS]

00:38:07   thing they want to do then they are when [TS]

00:38:09   they actually put their hands on the [TS]

00:38:10   thing and try and do it so they can see [TS]

00:38:13   where they would be a great architect or [TS]

00:38:15   they can they picture themselves being a [TS]

00:38:17   great you know a game designer or [TS]

00:38:22   or-or somebody like said somebody's [TS]

00:38:24   watching the show and like I could do a [TS]

00:38:26   show like that you just point the camera [TS]

00:38:27   a couple of guys and make a shower get [TS]

00:38:29   some Chinese people playing basketball [TS]

00:38:31   odds you know little bit have no idea [TS]

00:38:33   what went into getting them but then you [TS]

00:38:36   actually put your hands on the thing and [TS]

00:38:38   utilize I'm not as good at this as as I [TS]

00:38:42   as I know why [TS]

00:38:43   mm-hmm and so I felt that I guitar big [TS]

00:38:46   time so I'm not going to it i'm [TS]

00:38:48   frustrated at it yeah and I'm gonna go [TS]

00:38:50   yeah and then and when you're when [TS]

00:38:53   you're 15 or 16 and that's you know [TS]

00:38:56   flanks or whatever but when you get to [TS]

00:38:57   be 35 and that is still the thing that's [TS]

00:39:01   inhibiting you from doing from doing [TS]

00:39:04   anything they are beyond just going to [TS]

00:39:06   work at your job [TS]

00:39:07   yeah then you know that then it then you [TS]

00:39:11   need to overcome you need to get past [TS]

00:39:12   the the fact that your imagination is [TS]

00:39:14   better at the thing than then your hands [TS]

00:39:16   and actually get in and start learning [TS]

00:39:19   how to do something because i see i mean [TS]

00:39:21   as a musician i made a lot of people who [TS]

00:39:24   are like oh man it's so cool that you [TS]

00:39:27   like to get to do what you love and you [TS]

00:39:30   know and I just have I work at this job [TS]

00:39:32   at school or whatever but you know I [TS]

00:39:35   really we wish i was learning that and I [TS]

00:39:39   i hate to always be the life coach in [TS]

00:39:43   those situations but I'm like it's hard [TS]

00:39:44   for you so I remember you always [TS]

00:39:46   somebody an opinion on the high hate it [TS]

00:39:48   so much [TS]

00:39:48   sometimes people have to ask i had not [TS]

00:39:50   getting paid for it but I but you know [TS]

00:39:54   every one of those people has a dream [TS]

00:39:55   that's achievable [TS]

00:39:56   I've never met a person that had a dream [TS]

00:39:58   that was unachievable sometimes [TS]

00:40:00   disturbingly achievable so achievable [TS]

00:40:02   just right there and that but they feel [TS]

00:40:04   like the little bit of practice that [TS]

00:40:06   they have to do the little bit of like [TS]

00:40:08   you know like oh that requires a [TS]

00:40:09   graduate degree [TS]

00:40:11   well yeah it does but you know how easy [TS]

00:40:14   a fucking graduate degree is to get you [TS]

00:40:16   know many morons I know they have [TS]

00:40:17   graduate degrees most of them they're [TS]

00:40:19   there all morning I be requisite like [TS]

00:40:21   being called dr. they really do like I i [TS]

00:40:24   think we should i don't know i want to [TS]

00:40:26   be called you get your master's degree [TS]

00:40:27   now I have a master's degree in a couple [TS]

00:40:30   of things [TS]

00:40:30   I i will want people to call me [TS]

00:40:32   bachelor-man bachelor every time [TS]

00:40:34   something system being called doctor dr. [TS]

00:40:36   Rosen penis I want to insist that they [TS]

00:40:39   call me back bachelor-man we don't get [TS]

00:40:41   work for that guy I went to school for [TS]

00:40:43   four years so yeah except now they hand [TS]

00:40:45   out bachelor's degrees too many tests [TS]

00:40:48   well sure it's not hard [TS]

00:40:51   frustrating for me when i first started [TS]

00:40:52   playing guitar I really want to be good [TS]

00:40:54   fast and for me that first thing was I [TS]

00:40:56   want to be able to play along with [TS]

00:40:57   beautiful songs more than anything in [TS]

00:40:59   the world but that's the cords are so [TS]

00:41:01   unless you have a really easy the easy [TS]

00:41:03   Beatles corso squirrely I'm learning to [TS]

00:41:05   play a 6-quart like I said you know it's [TS]

00:41:07   weird you know and of course I was [TS]

00:41:10   barely mastering g which is really [TS]

00:41:11   matter not a little song without the six [TS]

00:41:13   know you gotta at the end on it [TS]

00:41:15   yeah but-but-but I think something [TS]

00:41:18   something analogous today it's what [TS]

00:41:19   you're describing which is even if you [TS]

00:41:20   do get good at guitar they do get good [TS]

00:41:22   songwriting it strikes me that still one [TS]

00:41:25   of the most crazy making of enterprises [TS]

00:41:27   is recording and I wouldn't want our [TS]

00:41:30   band record back in Tallahassee and this [TS]

00:41:31   is could not have been more welcoming [TS]

00:41:32   informal you know it's an aide a 12 pack [TS]

00:41:35   and it could not have been more [TS]

00:41:37   comfortable environment but it read a [TS]

00:41:38   whole career out of that got a blessing [TS]

00:41:42   but you know what i mean it's like an [TS]

00:41:43   invisible your recording recording it's [TS]

00:41:45   like it's god it's almost like cost [TS]

00:41:48   accounting or dentistry to took to be [TS]

00:41:51   recording and overdubbing and redoing [TS]

00:41:53   and then you realize something early on [TS]

00:41:55   there's something on the drums that you [TS]

00:41:56   can't fix now and it's too late [TS]

00:41:58   especially using a four-track or an [TS]

00:41:59   eight-track you're saying though and [TS]

00:42:01   it's I think the thing you're describing [TS]

00:42:02   about not being able to get your hand on [TS]

00:42:03   it quite right [TS]

00:42:04   it's so frustrating it seems like it [TS]

00:42:06   would be you're paying for it your pan [TS]

00:42:09   your cash to go be in the studio to make [TS]

00:42:11   that record people forget that record [TS]

00:42:13   that recording is its own art form [TS]

00:42:15   completely separate from being good at [TS]

00:42:18   guitar or analogous but very different [TS]

00:42:20   scale very different skills being a [TS]

00:42:22   great like onstage live presence who can [TS]

00:42:25   like sing on key is so different from [TS]

00:42:27   being somebody who can let go play the [TS]

00:42:28   solo twice the same way and I think [TS]

00:42:30   everybody that's a fan of music nose [TS]

00:42:32   knows the experience both of getting a [TS]

00:42:35   record like the my bloody valentine [TS]

00:42:36   record which is an incredible record and [TS]

00:42:38   you listen to it you're like oh man [TS]

00:42:40   awesome and then you'll see them live in [TS]

00:42:42   it's like watching paint dry [TS]

00:42:43   they're terrible life and and then your [TS]

00:42:46   favorite band that you think love to go [TS]

00:42:49   see and they're just this incredible [TS]

00:42:50   charismatic kick-ass band you buy their [TS]

00:42:53   records and it's always a cold shower [TS]

00:42:55   because the record just doesn't capture [TS]

00:42:57   that the music that's the that process [TS]

00:43:00   that process can be I mean I've watched [TS]

00:43:03   you up close and from afar [TS]

00:43:04   putting the last record together it took [TS]

00:43:06   you a long time it was a lot of zeros a [TS]

00:43:09   lot of yet false starts and and you're [TS]

00:43:11   somebody who takes that shit really [TS]

00:43:12   seriously and everywhere you aren't fun [TS]

00:43:14   in and it was still very trying to be [TS]

00:43:17   very frustrating it was as its first [TS]

00:43:19   frustrating mainly because again you in [TS]

00:43:24   your mind you know how you want to [TS]

00:43:25   record the sound and you know that you [TS]

00:43:27   can do it and you know it's just waiting [TS]

00:43:30   on the other side of some amount of time [TS]

00:43:34   that has to pass where stuff happens you [TS]

00:43:36   know like how many times when you're [TS]

00:43:37   starting out making a record do you just [TS]

00:43:40   sit there on the couch and go i wish [TS]

00:43:42   this record was just done and we can [TS]

00:43:44   look back on how fun it was to make but [TS]

00:43:47   looking forward at all the work that you [TS]

00:43:49   have to do and all the times when you [TS]

00:43:51   don't you're at a crossroads and you [TS]

00:43:53   don't know which way to go [TS]

00:43:54   you know it's excruciating and this is [TS]

00:43:56   also the first time that you have done [TS]

00:43:59   this pretty much almost all in your hand [TS]

00:44:02   right i mean you did you were you were [TS]

00:44:04   kind of project manager as well as a [TS]

00:44:06   songwriter the singer in the guitar [TS]

00:44:07   player and yeah I mean we have a great [TS]

00:44:09   engineer few Lloyd Wright's my was the [TS]

00:44:11   was the engineer and without him I [TS]

00:44:12   couldn't make sure your the production [TS]

00:44:13   credit on the site i produced ok and end [TS]

00:44:16   it in music you know like what who is [TS]

00:44:19   the producer it's like directing [TS]

00:44:20   yourself in a movie it is it's like [TS]

00:44:22   writing directing and producing a movie [TS]

00:44:23   and sometimes you make great movies that [TS]

00:44:26   way and sometimes a lot of times they're [TS]

00:44:28   invisible because there's no one [TS]

00:44:31   standing there saying like know that the [TS]

00:44:34   shot you know like the shot of you [TS]

00:44:36   getting out of the shower is an [TS]

00:44:37   essential to the film and it actually is [TS]

00:44:39   a turnoff for knowing knowing when to [TS]

00:44:40   move on knowing when to go you know what [TS]

00:44:42   that's going to be fine and i just [TS]

00:44:43   cannot spend another day on you know [TS]

00:44:46   getting your amp to sound the way you [TS]

00:44:48   want the way that my perfectionism [TS]

00:44:49   manifest itself is not let's do that [TS]

00:44:53   take 80 times that is not the kind of [TS]

00:44:55   perfectionism i have like I'm generally [TS]

00:44:58   if but if the take was actually my [TS]

00:45:00   suppliers agree with that [TS]

00:45:01   well you know you know that that's Mike [TS]

00:45:05   you look at you get Mike on here but no [TS]

00:45:09   I don't want I don't want to do it take [TS]

00:45:10   80 times i do it until it until it [TS]

00:45:13   wow that's good and a lot of times it's [TS]

00:45:14   the first or second tank [TS]

00:45:16   a lot of the vocal performances or you [TS]

00:45:19   know run it down once then again and [TS]

00:45:22   then keep the third one but at the way [TS]

00:45:23   when you've got that when you got the [TS]

00:45:24   the cash register [TS]

00:45:26   you know clicking every few minutes in [TS]

00:45:28   your head you got me thinking yourself [TS]

00:45:29   does that affect your decision-making [TS]

00:45:31   also it yeah it does but it's also an [TS]

00:45:33   attention span thing like the cash [TS]

00:45:35   register is what keeps me from making a [TS]

00:45:38   90-minute long records where every song [TS]

00:45:42   has 80 track sharp of like living it's [TS]

00:45:46   um Wow walking you know there's always [TS]

00:45:48   something where you think right before [TS]

00:45:50   the chorus would it be cool if like 10 [TS]

00:45:53   of us went into a parking garage and [TS]

00:45:54   just threw bottles at a wall and [TS]

00:45:56   recorded it wouldn't that be great you [TS]

00:45:57   know and it's the cash register that [TS]

00:46:00   keeps you from doing that but it isn't a [TS]

00:46:02   cash register that keeps me from doing [TS]

00:46:03   80 vocal takes it's it's it's a it's a [TS]

00:46:07   short attention span for that kind of [TS]

00:46:08   thing for that kind of perfectionism [TS]

00:46:10   yeah and also a feeling of of that that [TS]

00:46:13   it's illegitimate in the first vocal [TS]

00:46:16   that i recorded with ken stringfellow in [TS]

00:46:19   the producers chair I saying the first [TS]

00:46:22   three lines you know for the first three [TS]

00:46:25   words like hey baby I and can push stop [TS]

00:46:31   on the machine and I look through the [TS]

00:46:35   glass I was like and he said sounded [TS]

00:46:39   good [TS]

00:46:39   alright let's so let's get the next next [TS]

00:46:41   three words oh no he's a puncher and I [TS]

00:46:44   was like oh the next three words so he [TS]

00:46:46   pushes record and listen to myself go [TS]

00:46:48   hey baby I and then I'm supposed to go [TS]

00:46:52   love you [TS]

00:46:55   hmm and he's like stop you know like [TS]

00:46:58   that was good let's hit you again and I [TS]

00:47:02   said can I can't I can't work this way [TS]

00:47:05   and he looked at me through the glass [TS]

00:47:06   was like what you mean this is how you [TS]

00:47:08   make records he's never made a record [TS]

00:47:10   where you didn't do that and I think [TS]

00:47:11   that was the he's got the motor skills [TS]

00:47:14   to be punching in and out that fast and [TS]

00:47:15   through the eighties and nineties that's [TS]

00:47:16   how they made record allow you and as a [TS]

00:47:18   so just out of curiosity and fall and [TS]

00:47:20   fall and so but this wasn't all [TS]

00:47:22   computery this is under all this is tape [TS]

00:47:24   he's doing this with tape and I bet this [TS]

00:47:27   lab this lasted 45 minutes where I set [TS]

00:47:29   in the mic and said I'm not going to [TS]

00:47:32   record a bubble this way you need to [TS]

00:47:34   push record i'll sing the song all the [TS]

00:47:36   way through and I'll do it again and not [TS]

00:47:40   maybe i'll do it a third time and then [TS]

00:47:42   we'll pick the one that's the best and [TS]

00:47:44   if they're if there's an out-of-tune no [TS]

00:47:46   out we can punch it in but i'm not going [TS]

00:47:49   to go i'm not going to go every three [TS]

00:47:50   words I didn't know they would ever do [TS]

00:47:52   that on a first take on like a trying to [TS]

00:47:54   get the that was just that was the [TS]

00:47:55   method [TS]

00:47:56   oh man that was how they recorded all [TS]

00:47:57   those records i think i think you listen [TS]

00:47:59   to your favorite records from the [TS]

00:48:00   eighties and they're all recorded that [TS]

00:48:01   was punched in [TS]

00:48:01   well so that's question about this [TS]

00:48:02   though this is a so when people first [TS]

00:48:04   started putting your band a few gotta go [TS]

00:48:06   and you realized you're going to have [TS]

00:48:08   people started quitting my band before [TS]

00:48:10   before the initial lineup even select [TS]

00:48:13   people gotta remember it wasn't always [TS]

00:48:14   fashionable to quit your band there was [TS]

00:48:16   a time when people were doing some [TS]

00:48:17   really landmark works and doesn't [TS]

00:48:19   overwrite you people that smoke was very [TS]

00:48:20   good where were brave they were now that [TS]

00:48:23   may pave the way those are some good [TS]

00:48:24   money funny clever people [TS]

00:48:26   yeah good riddance yeah that's true [TS]

00:48:28   that's true but add so I wonder that we [TS]

00:48:30   talked about it a little bit before but [TS]

00:48:31   you have a very electric and fun live [TS]

00:48:35   show [TS]

00:48:36   I wonder how much the songwriting and [TS]

00:48:37   the studio stuff especially the left [TS]

00:48:39   last record do you are you always trying [TS]

00:48:42   to prepare for the fact that it might be [TS]

00:48:44   just two or three of you up there are [TS]

00:48:46   you haha no seriously when you when you [TS]

00:48:48   when you're putting the record together [TS]

00:48:49   are you thinking about making it [TS]

00:48:51   somewhat reproducible is that part of [TS]

00:48:53   your constraint is can we do this in [TS]

00:48:55   amsterdam on a PA we don't trust well [TS]

00:48:57   every record the long winters have made [TS]

00:48:58   has been different from the last and so [TS]

00:49:03   obviously the first record we made no [TS]

00:49:05   attempt to [TS]

00:49:07   be able to duplicate those songs live [TS]

00:49:09   and in a lot of cases those songs are [TS]

00:49:11   there hard for us to play now the second [TS]

00:49:14   record again we made no attempt to [TS]

00:49:17   duplicate it would be to be able to [TS]

00:49:19   duplicate it live and we've struggled to [TS]

00:49:21   you know to play them live sometimes but [TS]

00:49:24   it's never constrained us like what if [TS]

00:49:27   there isn't if the live band is a [TS]

00:49:28   three-piece band we go out and playing [TS]

00:49:30   at three we play the three-piece version [TS]

00:49:33   of the song [TS]

00:49:33   yeah and we don't it's not like we have [TS]

00:49:35   reels of tape running behind the stage [TS]

00:49:38   with all the backing tracks we just get [TS]

00:49:40   out there and we're all right on this [TS]

00:49:41   tour where the jam and where to [TS]

00:49:43   Rickenbacker's in a drum kit and the [TS]

00:49:46   fact that the record has you know the [TS]

00:49:48   Vienna Boys Choir on it is not going to [TS]

00:49:50   be a problem for us and hopefully it [TS]

00:49:52   isn't a problem for our audience because [TS]

00:49:54   our audience isn't typically made up of [TS]

00:49:59   those people who are like with that [TS]

00:50:00   doesn't send that the record man very [TS]

00:50:03   forgiving it's not that they're [TS]

00:50:04   forgiving it's that their adventurous [TS]

00:50:07   spirit people that with a spirit of [TS]

00:50:09   discovery they come to our shows and [TS]

00:50:11   they're like what are the loan was going [TS]

00:50:12   to give us this time I think on the on [TS]

00:50:16   the one running out of time the new [TS]

00:50:18   record on the most recent record we did [TS]

00:50:21   try a little bit more to rein in some of [TS]

00:50:24   the some of the experiments that were [TS]

00:50:28   further afield and make like a rock and [TS]

00:50:30   roll record but i don't think the next [TS]

00:50:32   record we make will will will we we we [TS]

00:50:37   met that challenge head-on and we've [TS]

00:50:39   made that record so now the next record [TS]

00:50:41   we're going to probably really explore [TS]

00:50:44   the outer limits the sky's the limit [TS]

00:50:49   mmm [TS]

00:50:50   you [TS]