Roderick on the Line

01: “Keep Moving and Get Out of the Way”


00:00:00   hello how are you hello Merlin I'm late

00:00:10   again it's alright i'm usually late to

00:00:15   everything so this is my just deserts

00:00:18   are you you seem like a late person it's

00:00:22   not that I'm late it's that it's that I

00:00:25   don't get there on time okay and that's

00:00:29   because I don't leave the house with

00:00:31   enough time to get where I'm going and I

00:00:34   don't think that's the same as being

00:00:36   late

00:00:36   I think that's I think that is a that is

00:00:42   a big question that has more to do with

00:00:45   like how you perceive space and time so

00:00:48   it's it's more of a science problem

00:00:50   yes yeah i mean the thing i was in order

00:00:54   for you to be late you would have to

00:00:55   have some interest in other people i

00:00:57   think how what would that be like I

00:01:00   don't know honey this book probably

00:01:02   wikipedia it's been like if you were

00:01:04   late you would be kind of conscious of

00:01:06   the fact that there are other people

00:01:07   that had things you need to do and I

00:01:09   don't think you and I suffer from that I

00:01:11   think that the results a lot of people

00:01:12   back there constantly thinking like how

00:01:14   will this house affect other people

00:01:15   right who cares is my first time they

00:01:18   assume that they think that I wouldn't

00:01:20   know

00:01:21   yeah right well other people right there

00:01:24   the problem I'll clearly uh-huh yeah I

00:01:29   mean you know should be a breeze

00:01:31   you know for all the all those other

00:01:33   people well this is the thing I'll i

00:01:35   leave the house if I have somewhere to

00:01:38   go I leave the house in plenty of time

00:01:40   to get there if there weren't other

00:01:43   people clogging the roads necessitating

00:01:48   stoplights right if there were not other

00:01:51   people clogging the roads there would

00:01:53   not need to be stoplights so I'm talking

00:01:57   coming here your roads by roads i have a

00:02:01   sense of how long it takes for me to get

00:02:02   from hearsay to the University of

00:02:04   Washington and that takes nine minutes

00:02:09   but if there are other people on the

00:02:11   roads which there so often are then it

00:02:14   takes anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes

00:02:16   which is infuriating so i usually leave

00:02:20   here with nine minutes just despair

00:02:22   sometimes 10 if I if I feel like I wanna

00:02:25   take a stroll in my car and the building

00:02:29   uh-huh

00:02:30   it's never enough time people people

00:02:33   related delays I i struggle with it i

00:02:36   used to be eternally late person and I

00:02:40   spent many a years of my life with a bus

00:02:43   or a partner who was the top permanently

00:02:46   late like just crazy like you're

00:02:48   supposed to be there at dinner for six

00:02:50   people and you arrive like as deserves

00:02:51   being served like offensively late and I

00:02:54   became sensitive about it because I felt

00:02:56   badly and something it's her but that's

00:02:58   just that was like that was a you know /

00:03:01   flaw and I was a flaw that i shared and

00:03:05   together it was terrible

00:03:06   that's so a lot of relationships get

00:03:07   weird right you're both terrible at the

00:03:09   same thing and now I'm really sensitive

00:03:10   about it but i'm not i haven't gotten

00:03:13   that great at it i feel like i do what

00:03:15   you do i think is I in my head I got an

00:03:18   idea of the greatest conceivable time

00:03:21   I've ever made to do this yeah right you

00:03:25   must understand why you have done

00:03:27   yeah right like you're in your big blue

00:03:28   van you're driving around you gotta go

00:03:30   from place to place show to show you

00:03:31   must have some idea in your head

00:03:33   well it would never take more than five

00:03:35   hours to get to austin one time I made

00:03:37   it in two hours so therefore up I'd be

00:03:39   there about an hour-and-a-half yeah you

00:03:41   may not do that cuz you gotta do it for

00:03:43   your job but like I feel like I do that

00:03:44   all the time I think oh I've got time to

00:03:46   get a coffee or I've got time to go stop

00:03:49   by the office into this thing right

00:03:51   animal case why the time to sleep for 20

00:03:53   more minutes and take a stroll

00:03:55   i'm very curious about something you

00:03:58   said a moment ago which is that that to

00:04:03   people who have the two people with the

00:04:06   same that they do the same things badly

00:04:08   that's how relationships can we get

00:04:10   weird that that a that resonated with me

00:04:14   and ethical to experience

00:04:16   I'm not sure I I think I mean I hadn't

00:04:20   thought about it but I i would still

00:04:23   just this moment it's never occurred to

00:04:24   me that I did anything bad in any of my

00:04:26   relationships no I think that's a core

00:04:28   competency for yeah exactly i'm now I'm

00:04:31   wondering right wow I always thought it

00:04:34   was that she did everything bad now I'm

00:04:38   starting to consider the possibility

00:04:39   that maybe yeah when the colts not

00:04:42   making sailboats right they say look we

00:04:43   were the cook people we make the coke

00:04:45   let other people make the sailboats why

00:04:47   would you try to sell cool right yeah

00:04:49   yeah

00:04:49   oh just saying I think the cocaine

00:04:51   people do make sailboats

00:04:53   oh sure and like brats prop planes

00:04:56   yeah well or at least they say

00:04:58   reengineer sailboats second i should

00:05:00   think about this more but there's

00:05:02   probably something to it

00:05:03   I always felt like if you could well the

00:05:07   good things that would be terrible

00:05:09   different things is a good idea but I've

00:05:11   always believed that you should both be

00:05:15   able to mostly put up with the same

00:05:17   stuff I think that's helpful but the

00:05:19   problem is like for example if you're

00:05:20   both messy then there's never any

00:05:23   countervailing force to make the

00:05:26   housetop being messy it becomes

00:05:28   synergistically messy right but the

00:05:30   problem with that is if one person is

00:05:31   messy and one person's clean then you're

00:05:34   out war in a different way

00:05:37   I mean I I felt this about about

00:05:40   introversion and extraversion because as

00:05:45   I think you and I have talked about this

00:05:46   but i'm i'm a very introverted person

00:05:50   despite being a an entertainer and for

00:05:55   many years I thought the pan entertainer

00:05:57   did you snicker at entertainer I find

00:06:00   extremely entertaining but being

00:06:02   especially when you're off stage but now

00:06:04   it is very introverted part no no I'm i

00:06:07   think i am an introvert and and that the

00:06:10   definition i use the description i use

00:06:12   of that is that if you if you find a

00:06:17   room full of people no matter how much

00:06:19   you're enjoying the experience are

00:06:21   enjoying their company if you find a

00:06:23   room full of people ultimately draining

00:06:27   and you want to and you need to get away

00:06:30   and get a loan in order to recharge

00:06:34   okay then you're an introvert and

00:06:36   compared to somebody who finds a room

00:06:38   full of people invigorating and they

00:06:41   hate to be alone and they want to be in

00:06:44   other people's company and they find

00:06:46   that they find that's how they charge

00:06:49   their batteries

00:06:50   uh-huh that's my definition ok it takes

00:06:53   a little self-serving no I mean I i

00:06:55   would want to hear a little how you

00:06:57   contrast that with a like a psychotic

00:07:00   loner or sociopath mclonergan sexy i'd

00:07:05   say that that person was an introvert

00:07:06   also sure but in any case I transferred

00:07:09   it had tried for a long time to only

00:07:13   date other introverted people because i

00:07:16   was tired because i didn't like

00:07:18   extroverts making demands on my time and

00:07:23   space but i found that one year in a

00:07:26   relationship even with another

00:07:28   introverted the person who is most

00:07:30   introverted becomes the introvert in the

00:07:35   relationship and even another

00:07:37   introverted will exhibit extroverted

00:07:40   tendencies in relationship to the other

00:07:43   person right so that so this in this

00:07:46   person who would normally be like Oh

00:07:47   leave me alone I kind of just want to be

00:07:49   by myself is suddenly in the posture of

00:07:52   like why don't you ever want to do

00:07:55   anything or why don't you ever want to

00:07:57   just hang out and why don't we ever move

00:08:00   it seems got on a molecular level it

00:08:03   seems like there should be some kind of

00:08:04   cancelling out going on with you got a

00:08:06   very messy person who is with a very

00:08:08   clean person I think I i think the

00:08:11   molecular science would say that

00:08:13   therefore you would have an average

00:08:14   clean house

00:08:15   yeah place of it i think they practice

00:08:18   that's not the case

00:08:19   yeah relationship and human beings

00:08:21   consistently fail to be some scientific

00:08:26   you know like it and that's the problem

00:08:30   with psychology psychology keeps for 450

00:08:36   years as presented itself as a science

00:08:38   and there's really no there's no

00:08:42   demonstrable proof that any of it is is

00:08:45   working it's just it's just a lot of

00:08:48   just a lot of jabber jaws you think it's

00:08:51   a lot easier to get some and make a

00:08:53   make-believe science

00:08:54   no I don't know if it's a science as

00:08:57   much as it is like well so where's the

00:08:59   line between a psychologist and a

00:09:00   minister

00:09:02   hmm alrighty that's the ash had a

00:09:05   secretary

00:09:06   yeah that's the psychologist is is is

00:09:09   using the same techniques of talking and

00:09:11   listening to her but there but they're

00:09:14   undergirding it with some sense that

00:09:16   they have a scientific tool box there

00:09:21   listening but they're listening with a

00:09:24   scientific tool box rather than

00:09:25   listening with compassion or something

00:09:28   and I said what you mean are you saying

00:09:30   you're saying that there but you're

00:09:32   talking about like a clinical soar like

00:09:33   a practicing psychologist as opposed to

00:09:35   like a scholarly psychologist you're

00:09:38   saying how is that different from a

00:09:38   minister and minister is somebody who

00:09:40   comes in and is a as a student of the

00:09:43   mind and the heart to try and give

00:09:45   people comfort and so you're talking

00:09:47   psychologists more like in terms of like

00:09:49   a therapist like somebody who would help

00:09:51   you feel better

00:09:52   well but what is what is what is a like

00:09:56   an academic psychologist if not a just

00:09:58   someone teaching practical psychologists

00:10:01   i guess i don't know I'm hmm it seems it

00:10:05   seems to me that that there for for many

00:10:07   many years the the whole premise of the

00:10:11   mental health industry was based on a

00:10:13   reading of Freud and people spent

00:10:18   decades saying that a lot of the lot of

00:10:21   women's insecurity was based on the fact

00:10:23   that they had penis and B and then one

00:10:27   day we decided that that was not true

00:10:30   uh-huh in fact it was silly but we

00:10:34   didn't we didn't throw the the Freud out

00:10:37   with the bathwater now and now we think

00:10:41   that you know everybody has you know

00:10:45   that people's Institute

00:10:45   30 is based on I don't know what my god

00:10:48   they're the book stores are full of the

00:10:50   most of their shelves of books talking

00:10:53   about your insecurities and the root

00:10:55   causes of it was funny those if you go

00:10:58   back you look at Aristotle or Descartes

00:11:00   her are a lot of those heavy hitters

00:11:02   back in the day people who laid the

00:11:03   groundwork for obviously philosophy but

00:11:05   really also for science I mean it's not

00:11:07   what we would call science today but but

00:11:09   back then philosophy was was I think

00:11:11   seen as part of science it was a way of

00:11:12   understanding you know how the mind

00:11:15   works how the universe worked and it

00:11:17   seems like a lot of it was based on

00:11:18   these physicalities things like

00:11:20   eventually come to me things like humors

00:11:22   and stuff like that but there were all

00:11:23   these like Theodoric of York kind of

00:11:26   ways to explain based on the physical

00:11:28   things like what why the mental things

00:11:31   happen and the funny thing with the

00:11:32   fried stuff is it seemed to more and

00:11:34   more yeah you could say well this

00:11:35   woman's the reason this woman is

00:11:37   hysterical from the Greek is because she

00:11:40   has a uterus so clearly she's crazy if i

00:11:43   had a universe i would be hysterical to

00:11:44   sure and she wants a wenis on top of it

00:11:47   that's awkward you know but it's funny

00:11:49   because now we're back around to the to

00:11:50   the to the body stuff where it is it is

00:11:53   very much it seems to be much more about

00:11:55   pipes and wires

00:11:56   yeah it's just a black bile is rising up

00:11:58   dinner right

00:12:00   what about you call now I get confused

00:12:02   because because i think i've read too

00:12:04   many reviews of REM albums early mm

00:12:07   there's some words rhyme not shifting

00:12:09   bodily humors are ways of describing a

00:12:11   meadow

00:12:11   so you not know that the quick pop quiz

00:12:13   bee call it was because be colic one of

00:12:15   the memories no bucolic is like a

00:12:17   pastoral setting up my second line as

00:12:21   your pastoral is not humor no okay no

00:12:24   problem attic automatic is yes that's

00:12:27   the phlegm

00:12:28   what about birds ask birds ask yelling

00:12:32   like that style of the birds

00:12:33   no I think that's in the same family as

00:12:35   bucolic ok it's birds ask

00:12:39   you know that's the thing is I I

00:12:43   understand what everybody wants to

00:12:45   explain everything I think you could

00:12:46   argue that you and I i would also like

00:12:49   to try and explain everything but you

00:12:52   know what it is with science its to tell

00:12:54   the certainty I'm troubled by the

00:12:56   certainty like to me good science should

00:12:58   always be going but you know I could be

00:13:00   wrong

00:13:00   yeah I am see I'm guilty of that I'm

00:13:02   guilty of using psychology to explain

00:13:05   myself and other people with a with a

00:13:09   with a fair degree of certainty and I

00:13:11   think I think I keep in the back of my

00:13:13   mind the the constant idea that i'm i'm

00:13:18   just guessing but I don't always let the

00:13:22   other person o.o i think i think that

00:13:25   what I'm saying is just a theory

00:13:28   I say it as though i really believe that

00:13:30   it's true

00:13:31   what's the point that's good writing

00:13:33   good writing exactly

00:13:34   good good writing is you know is I'm

00:13:37   habit the viewpoint that's correct

00:13:39   that's correct

00:13:41   mmm yeah yeah but I'm sitting across

00:13:44   from somebody saying you know your

00:13:45   fucking problem is yes it's a little bit

00:13:48   harder for them to see that i'm just

00:13:50   playing a character and in this case

00:13:52   it's the character of somebody who knows

00:13:54   what they're fucking problem is that's a

00:13:56   good point it is it's it's def a good

00:14:00   point sense of that is a really big

00:14:01   problem with you

00:14:02   uh-huh yeah but I think it's a problem

00:14:05   with the with the world i mean like i

00:14:07   say i'm not necessarily that's the

00:14:09   second one just for curious what's your

00:14:11   problem with you

00:14:12   yeah but no one is a problem i really

00:14:18   mean opportunities to ya opportunities

00:14:20   take exciting interrupting John how's

00:14:23   that how is that a problem with the rest

00:14:25   of the world haha

00:14:26   the problem with the rest of the world

00:14:28   is the rest of the world is not

00:14:30   listening carefully to me now the

00:14:33   problem is that the there are a lot of

00:14:35   people who put their their dumb theories

00:14:37   down advance their dumb theories in

00:14:40   their dumb books but they don't in order

00:14:44   to sell a book you don't say on the last

00:14:47   page but maybe everything i just wrote

00:14:49   is just a dumb theory that I

00:14:52   what up so I think for yourself love the

00:14:54   author is not that much money in saying

00:14:57   but I could be wrong right so so so

00:15:00   these books go out and and gullible

00:15:02   people read them and they think oh now I

00:15:06   know and they don't know anything

00:15:11   yeah or you know or or what it is again

00:15:14   it's a toolbox and and and it's only as

00:15:18   good as the carpenter your toolbox is

00:15:21   only as good as your carpenter ii the

00:15:25   same toolbox that psychologists

00:15:26   listening with I just

00:15:29   hey how a little piece of paper here i

00:15:31   wanna make sure I'm keeping all these

00:15:32   straight but I think I think I think

00:15:35   it's problematic

00:15:36   I think all this is problematic I think

00:15:38   more people should be like John Roderick

00:15:40   and and just say that it a thing is a

00:15:41   thing but on the other hand i'm also

00:15:43   have my motto

00:15:44   yes chuckling that's right service work

00:15:47   is the thing that troubles me I think

00:15:49   with a lot of this the science stuff is

00:15:52   it's not science

00:15:53   I mean anybody who's out there doing

00:15:55   straight science a lot of them are well

00:15:58   first of all they probably working on

00:15:59   boner drugs a lot of them got them thank

00:16:01   God but they but I mean if you're doing

00:16:04   straight science you really are doing a

00:16:06   kind of you know existential improv

00:16:08   we're trying to stop you're seeing what

00:16:10   happens you're saying well here's what

00:16:11   we know and part of being a good

00:16:12   scientist it seems to me is to be able

00:16:14   to go away I but here's the thing we

00:16:16   said but here's that doesn't mean all

00:16:18   these other things there's not this ergo

00:16:20   thing that I because I said that then

00:16:22   necessarily all these other things with

00:16:23   that way the exams feels like good

00:16:26   science says a very specific thing based

00:16:28   on evidence in context and I feel like

00:16:30   the context gets left out you know and

00:16:33   this is why so much of the quote-unquote

00:16:35   research that you hear on you know in

00:16:37   newspapers and NPR is is so goofy a lot

00:16:40   of the time the first of all it's been

00:16:42   it's been strained and drain through all

00:16:44   these different sources and a lot of

00:16:46   times i bet the people who conducted the

00:16:47   primary research we go how in the hell

00:16:49   did this ever become like don't use

00:16:51   aluminum pans anymore

00:16:53   yeah right i don't know if that's true

00:16:54   but like I don't know what psychology

00:16:57   stuff it's hard and it seems like it's

00:16:58   almost like what like optometrists and

00:17:01   Dennis and stuff it's like

00:17:03   chiropodist thank you the further you

00:17:06   are from like serious science the more

00:17:09   serious we become the more you demand of

00:17:11   course the height of this being phd's

00:17:13   demanding that they be called dr. right

00:17:16   yeah right for bastards call somebody

00:17:18   with a PhD dr arrogant bastards yes I

00:17:22   think it right on the diploma

00:17:23   I feel like real scientists are people

00:17:26   who are combining baking powder and

00:17:30   vinegar and making volcanoes and as you

00:17:35   as you stray from that core science

00:17:38   original science of volcano

00:17:41   manufacturing it just gets into fruity

00:17:45   pebbles out there in every direction and

00:17:49   at and in all honesty I think that

00:17:51   adulthood is a process of becoming

00:17:54   comfortable with ambiguity and i know

00:17:57   this about you that you are comfortable

00:17:59   with a certain amount of ambiguity

00:18:01   yeah i know i was i was trying to trying

00:18:05   to be nice to draw on that out i know i

00:18:07   know you're not comfortable with

00:18:08   ambiguity but I aspire to be comfortable

00:18:12   with a certain amount of ambiguity

00:18:14   because i know that i know that much the

00:18:18   life that I perceive is really a

00:18:21   television show that I've been living in

00:18:23   since I was a little kid and so I don't

00:18:28   want to get caught masturbating because

00:18:29   you're an introvert well being an

00:18:34   introvert is not easy it's really not

00:18:38   know and I know a lot of the people

00:18:40   listening to this podcast are introverts

00:18:42   because that is by definition who

00:18:45   listens to podcasts people who like to

00:18:48   hear other people's voices only through

00:18:50   their car stereo speakers right rather

00:18:54   than having people sitting in the car

00:18:56   with them talking to them know where you

00:18:57   come up with this stuff

00:18:59   it's it's just a theory um I think in

00:19:04   some ways the people who are most loudly

00:19:06   saying things like in our case we're not

00:19:09   where we are scientists of a kind I

00:19:11   imagine you know scientists sizes and

00:19:14   not in the sense of science but in a

00:19:16   sense of the you know a social

00:19:19   intercourse

00:19:20   yeah we're sky interests we know person

00:19:23   that's good that is that is good where

00:19:27   blue sky and tests we understand that

00:19:31   should be we understand how people

00:19:32   should behave we understand the the like

00:19:36   Mitzi and best of all possible worlds

00:19:38   that should exist

00:19:39   yeah we're actually just here to help

00:19:40   where the pan gloss overs playing

00:19:42   glossary so I got nothing

00:19:44   the odd so the problem is that sometimes

00:19:48   with people who put things most most

00:19:50   strongly but you know what

00:19:51   it's part of the I think you got your

00:19:53   copy this the contrarian screed the road

00:19:56   where if you can find you know invented

00:19:58   sarcasm if you are if you can find any

00:20:01   hole in any of it doesn't matter whether

00:20:03   you agree with it or not you just got to

00:20:05   go explore the whole if you don't mind

00:20:07   my saying and i think that's that's a

00:20:08   big part of it is is you might your i

00:20:11   might say the most ridiculous bombastic

00:20:13   thing in the world

00:20:14   just just to say that thing but then

00:20:17   you're okay arguing about and eventually

00:20:19   going home you know maybe it is this

00:20:20   other thing and what bugs me is the

00:20:22   personal brand stuff we're like you're

00:20:24   not allowed to you know if you're gonna

00:20:27   be on brand you're going to be that guy

00:20:29   who put out that useless book or you're

00:20:30   going to be this person who's putting

00:20:32   out this useful study that like you're

00:20:34   going to be harmed if anything about it

00:20:37   is shown to be incomplete inconsistent

00:20:39   or untrue and then your whole world

00:20:42   falls apart because you know what I mean

00:20:44   look and that's the thing is they now

00:20:46   you're dug in

00:20:47   now you guys gotta defend that until

00:20:49   he's dead I feel like in a way that's

00:20:52   true that's true of liberalism now or

00:20:55   that's true that's true of the whole

00:20:58   liberal half of this country who are so

00:21:02   on brand and over the years the brand

00:21:06   has changed and every new addition to it

00:21:10   the the Liberals feel like they need to

00:21:14   embrace it and and anonymous eyes it and

00:21:19   after a while the brand is so ungainly

00:21:21   itself rife with internal contradictions

00:21:24   that liberalism has become meaningless

00:21:27   or if not meaningless at least it's it's

00:21:30   a it's it's a multi-headed Hydra that

00:21:33   can't possibly live it can't possibly

00:21:35   subsist and he contrasted against

00:21:39   conservatism which is just as balkanized

00:21:43   but this isn't just some clear this is

00:21:46   not going to be coming with the tea

00:21:47   party right

00:21:48   oh you don't want to talk about the Tea

00:21:49   Party is a bridge to the tea party

00:21:52   no I wasn't trying to bridge by where I

00:21:54   don't interrupt you better this is you

00:21:55   know this stuff is on my mind liberalism

00:21:57   is on my mind I don't really give a fuck

00:21:58   about the tea party right

00:22:00   what I care about is liberalism and how

00:22:02   to find some kind of liberalism that's

00:22:04   that's that's that's livable and I feel

00:22:08   like I feel like the Liberals that I

00:22:09   know there are so many things so many

00:22:11   tenants of liberalism that are off the

00:22:13   table for talking about anymore because

00:22:17   they're part of the brand you can't

00:22:19   how comes almost becomes a little bit

00:22:21   religious world absolutely wall that's

00:22:23   all that's holding the family together

00:22:24   right now is our belief in the wizard

00:22:26   and there's these things is that if we

00:22:29   if we start if we start trying to take

00:22:33   out all the in essential parts of this

00:22:35   or figure out what's debatable about

00:22:38   what we'll discover is that everything

00:22:39   that's left of liberalism today is a

00:22:42   reaction to conservatives there's very

00:22:44   little we're basically we whoever

00:22:47   considers himself liberal I just I'm so

00:22:49   not interested in politics i can

00:22:50   articulate and yet and yet

00:22:52   ah i think it's very true though that

00:22:56   basically were missiles are basically

00:22:58   like slightly advanced children they're

00:23:02   like protein agers in the sense that

00:23:04   they know everything they don't like

00:23:05   they don't know that much about what

00:23:07   they like and they know mostly about

00:23:09   when they don't want to sit at the lunch

00:23:10   table with somebody who doesn't know you

00:23:14   know what what what the cool little

00:23:15   thing to do is

00:23:16   yeah I think that's true of the mass of

00:23:18   all ppl nets made liberals more

00:23:19   conservative than conservatives that

00:23:22   kind of that kind of and it's and you

00:23:24   need to look no further than the city

00:23:25   that I live in to see how conservative

00:23:29   can mean a lot more than your feelings

00:23:31   on the gold standard what it can really

00:23:34   mean is how didactic or how what's the

00:23:38   word how canonical as you like to say

00:23:40   you can become about saying no no here's

00:23:43   the thing reactionary if you like like

00:23:46   no this is the this is how we do these

00:23:49   things and differing from that is taking

00:23:51   this off-brand as you would say and it's

00:23:54   and it's you don't mean it's really

00:23:56   becoming more about like defending your

00:23:58   your little house of hay from the the

00:24:00   big bad wolf

00:24:01   it's less about building thing you want

00:24:03   to make and more about just reacting to

00:24:04   what the rest of the world does

00:24:06   yeah i i'm i'm now as i hear you talk in

00:24:10   clock to agree with you that we

00:24:11   shouldn't talk about politics that's

00:24:13   awful it's awful people just feel what

00:24:17   it's like for you to listen to people

00:24:18   talk about anything it's very it's very

00:24:21   hard to be nice to meet them and talk

00:24:23   about anything I I don't want them kind

00:24:26   of say I'm really glad I don't have to

00:24:27   do the books for you on this but i'm

00:24:28   just guessing that many potentially most

00:24:31   people have not consulted you on whether

00:24:33   they are even qualified to discuss many

00:24:34   issues

00:24:35   yeah driving i'm gonna guess driving

00:24:38   yeah I know you feel very strongly about

00:24:39   driving i do and there are a lot of

00:24:41   terrible drivers out there too many can

00:24:44   I i was going to try and get back to the

00:24:47   relationship think that's too late now

00:24:48   the driving thing you seem to feel very

00:24:51   strongly about driving i know several

00:24:52   friends that and I've gotten the feeling

00:24:54   from you that has to do with your

00:24:57   Alaskan background i think at one time

00:24:58   you said you offered to I think put a

00:25:00   broom stick up my ass because i wanted

00:25:02   to drive i don't remember the exact

00:25:04   context it's probably phrase you is in

00:25:06   parlance with your types

00:25:08   yeah but you know you grew up in Florida

00:25:10   where I mean the highest elevation in

00:25:12   Florida is like three phone books

00:25:13   stacked on top of one another

00:25:15   yeah so how would we know we don't even

00:25:17   have rulers so we don't even know how

00:25:19   was that is in inches or whatever you

00:25:20   want you know how to drive you just you

00:25:22   point the car and then and then start

00:25:25   I don't know giving yourself a manicure

00:25:26   and then you're at the here at you

00:25:28   you've arrived and let's eat oranges

00:25:30   I'm in Florida telling me why I'm in

00:25:34   Florida is that baked into the culture

00:25:36   there you got the gas you

00:25:37   the gas at the gas know it's coming out

00:25:40   last days is a part of it but there are

00:25:42   some terrible drivers in Alaska to know

00:25:44   I feel like it's a driving is driving as

00:25:47   much more it's it it's very easy to be a

00:25:50   driver it's very hard to be a good

00:25:52   driver

00:25:54   you have to understand you have to

00:25:56   understand a lot of things you have them

00:25:58   you have to be able to bring a lot of

00:25:59   things to bear and you have to have

00:26:01   peripheral vision and you have to be

00:26:03   looking 20 seconds ahead and all these

00:26:06   all these things that get in the way of

00:26:09   people you know jamming out to

00:26:12   Bananarama or whatever it is that people

00:26:14   do in their cars you can see what

00:26:16   channel is it out the implication that

00:26:18   almost nobody but you is able to do well

00:26:21   is that no I see good driver sometimes

00:26:23   I'll be driving along a guy i'll drive

00:26:25   by or sometimes you gotta wait you have

00:26:28   a way for a handshake or something but

00:26:30   much more like mmm

00:26:32   and then he looks over it goes me it's

00:26:34   like being a tough guy where you can

00:26:35   just look at somebody and go like that

00:26:37   guy's wiry he could be an ultimate

00:26:38   fighter like you see somebody driving

00:26:40   you might you might see a lady in the

00:26:41   store and just go i can just tell she's

00:26:43   a good driver

00:26:44   yeah you just you watch a person

00:26:45   navigate through their environment

00:26:48   because you would've gotten too far

00:26:49   grocery store you could probably tell I

00:26:51   at least I can just say and I don't want

00:26:53   to I don't want to go into the things we

00:26:55   go into sometimes but in my neighborhood

00:26:57   it's very clear is not a good driver

00:26:59   just go to the grocery store right right

00:27:02   well it's very clear who's not a good

00:27:04   person

00:27:04   well if you can't navigate your way

00:27:06   through a grocery store without

00:27:08   inconveniencing other people know

00:27:09   without without making yourself an

00:27:12   obstacle should be a tribunal then

00:27:14   you're a bad person there should just be

00:27:16   there should be people there just taking

00:27:17   you out of there

00:27:18   I the Soylent Green people right i don't

00:27:22   want my daughter this

00:27:23   that's right well I don't even know if I

00:27:25   want to eat that but i think i said to

00:27:27   my daughter taught her this is the most

00:27:28   important thing we must teach our

00:27:29   children is the two rules of the grocery

00:27:31   store you keep moving and you get out of

00:27:33   the way if you know if you're not if

00:27:35   you're not gonna keep moving

00:27:36   get out of the way now here's what you

00:27:38   need to get out of the way keep moving

00:27:40   keep moving it out of the way that's a

00:27:41   this is eight law everything you must

00:27:43   know about the grocery store keep moving

00:27:45   get out of the way if you can't do one

00:27:46   to the other

00:27:47   always always that should be that should

00:27:49   be a t-shirt and and

00:27:51   get out of the way should be I think

00:27:53   what most people think of all the time

00:27:55   and and even though i present as a

00:27:58   fairly like as a fairly uh alpha

00:28:03   personality let's say Who I am always

00:28:06   thinking to myself do I need to get out

00:28:09   of somebody's way you know i'm always

00:28:11   looking in the rearview mirror I'm

00:28:12   always walking around the grocery store

00:28:14   answer the answer is not always yes on a

00:28:16   variety of levels but the question is

00:28:18   always there some people i don't get out

00:28:20   of the way because they need to feel me

00:28:22   in their way right moment anyway they

00:28:25   don't realize that's right they don't

00:28:27   understand it but it's good for them

00:28:28   ultimately that I'm in their way but for

00:28:31   instance I went to I went to a movie at

00:28:33   an art house theater the other night and

00:28:36   you know it's an arthouse it's a place

00:28:39   called the Seven Gables in seattle

00:28:41   average age of the of the people in this

00:28:44   movie theater is 55 years old

00:28:47   everyone is wearing some kind of

00:28:49   Patagonia garment or some kind of thing

00:28:54   from rei you know it's a very university

00:28:58   audience of peanut butter carabiners

00:29:01   some carabiners on people's keychains

00:29:05   and they're there to watch a you know a

00:29:07   small a smaller film not a widely

00:29:10   released film and I swear to you there

00:29:16   was more audience noise during this film

00:29:20   which was a film about the Holocaust

00:29:25   right i mean it's not a film that it's

00:29:27   not like it's not a you get easily

00:29:32   yelling at the screen in you know and

00:29:34   I'm thinking to myself that this is let

00:29:36   this audience is louder than the

00:29:39   audience at a queen latifah film and

00:29:42   it's because every person in the

00:29:44   audience feels like they need to make

00:29:46   some kind of some kind of audible

00:29:48   response to every plot twists to every

00:29:52   to every you know shocking moment

00:29:55   everybody in the place has to go

00:29:56   Oh mm oh yes oh

00:30:00   well and you know and I felt like

00:30:03   standing up in front of the screen and

00:30:05   saying you people shut the fuck up like

00:30:07   yeah you are this is not an audience

00:30:10   participation film and you're you know

00:30:14   the fact that you are grokking the the

00:30:17   plot twist doesn't need to be punctuated

00:30:19   with a little like a like a grown from

00:30:23   you it's not different from what you're

00:30:25   like you're in your grandparents yelling

00:30:28   the answer on wheel of fortune

00:30:30   well that's in the privacy of their own

00:30:31   home but that right i mean that's the

00:30:33   thing i mean you take a combination of

00:30:35   the kind of like everybody gets to

00:30:36   comment on everything aspects of the

00:30:38   internet to find with the NPR honest of

00:30:40   owning a lot of things from rei and and

00:30:42   being used to be able to write letters

00:30:44   to the new york times you go into a

00:30:45   theater with that that's a deadly

00:30:46   cocktail my friend

00:30:47   yeah and I can't cause it was the x-men

00:30:50   movie what was it the holocaust movie

00:30:51   members there was the x-men movie have

00:30:53   the whole you betcha she anything that

00:30:56   has the Holocaust all go see is that

00:30:58   right and what was that one about the

00:31:00   Israeli it's kind of like a Munich

00:31:02   except i was good about the the most sad

00:31:07   agents who

00:31:08   Oh kill the bird who go to to kidnap the

00:31:12   Mengele type doctor and they i won't

00:31:16   give the Indiana spoilers no spoilers

00:31:17   but see this gets us to a deeper problem

00:31:19   John it's a much broader problem it's

00:31:21   what ultimately wifey Rattray depression

00:31:23   which is that nobody knows how to stand

00:31:25   in line if you had to bring it down to

00:31:27   one thing

00:31:28   well the one thing is we don't really

00:31:29   know how to act around people anymore

00:31:30   but the theater and all comes together

00:31:32   in the theater the theater is the worst

00:31:34   of humanity jammed into a room with

00:31:36   sticky floors and it's everything on of

00:31:39   the grocery store and grocery store

00:31:40   might be worst if there was a grocery

00:31:42   store that had a movie theater that

00:31:43   would be the worst the absolute worst of

00:31:46   humanity

00:31:46   it wouldn't be able to get your seat and

00:31:48   people would be yelling this is a hell

00:31:50   of a business model i think this this

00:31:52   grocery store movie theater thing this

00:31:53   like as a punitive thing it's like a

00:31:55   beer pub pizza parlor movie theater

00:31:57   except you're actually giving shopping

00:31:59   done to you so you can have like Arsenal

00:32:01   beers you come in you get if you can

00:32:03   find your table first forget the foyer

00:32:05   table you get past this lady here who is

00:32:07   really do

00:32:08   what about getting her free sample man

00:32:10   i'm kind of explain something to you hi

00:32:11   this is my daughter I hope she sees the

00:32:13   age of four

00:32:14   my concern is that if you and the rest

00:32:17   of the sand people do not move away from

00:32:19   the tiny bits of sausage on toothpicks

00:32:21   I will literally die in a dirty safeway

00:32:23   standing behind somebody cheap and

00:32:26   that's just not how I see this ending

00:32:27   while ghostbusters 3 is playing on bom

00:32:31   bom-bom that would be good when I took

00:32:34   my daughter to one movie and it was

00:32:36   excruciating

00:32:37   I can't believe what is happening is

00:32:38   this is a dumb like cliche but it's a

00:32:41   unbearable to go to the movies setting

00:32:43   aside the eighty dollars that cost the

00:32:45   two of us to see Winnie the poop

00:32:46   it was awful everything about it was

00:32:48   awful the the commercials before the

00:32:51   trailers were awful the trailers were

00:32:52   awful to move it was all awful

00:32:55   yeah and like you say it's like a queen

00:32:57   latifah thing like everybody's yelling

00:32:58   yelling and yelling stuff and talking

00:33:01   and playing with their phones

00:33:02   yeah well you know I think what it is is

00:33:04   that sometime when we were kids the the

00:33:09   school curriculum was still based on the

00:33:11   premise that we were trying to beat the

00:33:13   Russians to the moon even though we we

00:33:16   already beat the Russians to the moon we

00:33:17   were still reading those same math books

00:33:19   we we wanted to get to the moon and we

00:33:22   wanted them not to get to them yeah

00:33:24   right we want to get a lot of work a lot

00:33:25   of your face but then somewhere there in

00:33:29   the in the seventies the allen all the

00:33:33   vacation of America happened and

00:33:37   suddenly everybody was an artist

00:33:40   nobody was a nobody had a slide rule

00:33:42   anymore nobody was trying to get us to

00:33:44   the moon now everybody now everybody was

00:33:49   free to be and we were all our little

00:33:53   hearts needed to be set free and we

00:33:56   needed to talk about our feelings and

00:33:59   everybody needed to share and now we

00:34:02   live in a we live in a nation of 350

00:34:05   million of the most important people who

00:34:08   ever lived

00:34:09   nobody can wait in line nobody can admit

00:34:11   for a second that maybe in the grand

00:34:14   scheme of things they are a peon

00:34:19   and they need to shut the fuck up and

00:34:21   get in line and do their jobs and get

00:34:24   out of the way of better drivers who are

00:34:27   on their way to someplace and only have

00:34:29   nine minutes to get there i think that i

00:34:31   finally understand it ok it's really

00:34:33   it's a problem with at least two levels

00:34:36   this is the second level is that that

00:34:40   the people are in your way

00:34:42   they're making take way more than 9

00:34:44   minutes you're not going to get the

00:34:45   chance to have a walk or a nap there in

00:34:47   John's way if i understand correctly the

00:34:49   first much more broad problem we're

00:34:52   never gonna get the problem to ensure we

00:34:53   get the problem one is that people are

00:34:55   literally not being forced to literally

00:34:57   listen to you because you could that's

00:35:00   part of the problem is people are

00:35:01   getting kinda say John I think people

00:35:03   are getting a mixed message and the

00:35:04   mixed messages there are people besides

00:35:06   John they're giving them advice if any

00:35:08   advice and that your what you have to

00:35:10   share with them is getting lost and

00:35:12   missed all the voices and talking about

00:35:14   feelings for her to say that is fair to

00:35:16   say except that with the caveat that I

00:35:19   don't really care if they're listening

00:35:21   I just want them to be quiet while i'm

00:35:23   talking you know if they are just

00:35:26   sitting there just just dumb we watch it

00:35:30   really got the movie it's the movie is

00:35:32   it really the movies you

00:35:34   the funds are talking during you there

00:35:36   talking during me or there fidgeting

00:35:38   even during me they should just be

00:35:41   content if they if they can't understand

00:35:43   what I'm saying they should just watch a

00:35:45   dust mite floating floating through the

00:35:48   air or something but they need no I

00:35:50   think we need to return to us don't know

00:35:51   what it is and I don't 15 model of like

00:35:54   rulers on the knuckles we got a whole

00:35:56   room full of kids that need a lot of

00:35:57   learning

00:35:58   please don't distract from that if you

00:36:00   can if you cannot sit in your seat and

00:36:02   listen to what John has to share with

00:36:03   you then maybe me know what we will move

00:36:06   down to the the room with the helmet

00:36:07   kids because this is for people who are

00:36:09   serious about life there's a phrase for

00:36:11   this can i think and it and it isn't

00:36:14   just it's not John centric the phrase is

00:36:16   good citizenship sure good citizenship

00:36:19   is listening to John yes

00:36:25   I i said this to lots of people when

00:36:28   they annoy me but I think there's a

00:36:30   misconception also about the idea of

00:36:32   etiquette or good manners and you go

00:36:35   pick up any good book on etiquette or

00:36:37   good manners and it will tell you this

00:36:38   is not about yelling at people about

00:36:41   where the fork is good manners and

00:36:42   etiquette are about making other people

00:36:44   feel at ease the whole reason that we

00:36:47   have manners and we have etiquette is so

00:36:49   that you don't have to feel

00:36:50   uncomfortable about knowing which fork

00:36:52   is for the shrimp it's not about

00:36:54   browbeating people about which for the

00:36:56   used incorrectly and I think that's a

00:36:58   big part of the problem i think we're

00:37:00   gonna get hung up we get hung up on all

00:37:02   the what the rules part are without

00:37:03   understanding why the rule existed and

00:37:05   and and what's nice about rules as

00:37:08   everybody agrees on what they are and

00:37:10   then you get on with life and

00:37:11   unfortunately now we we we got so

00:37:16   fixated on the fact that the rules were

00:37:18   based on on a bad system the rules were

00:37:22   based on were imposed by by European

00:37:27   colonialists or or imposed by rich

00:37:30   people and that in principle was bad the

00:37:33   rules favored the colonialists they

00:37:36   favor the rich people but more

00:37:38   importantly just the fact even the rules

00:37:40   that were good that there were that were

00:37:42   neutral the fact that they had come from

00:37:46   these these bad people these oppressive

00:37:48   people was enough to make 2222 not only

00:37:52   question the rule but to assume that the

00:37:55   rule was bad

00:37:56   interesting that perhaps rules

00:37:57   altogether are a bad idea because that's

00:38:00   a fallacy central conceit of the

00:38:01   colonial government

00:38:02   well except that everybody's got rules

00:38:06   look the so it's not the rules are no I

00:38:09   don't think anybody assumed except for

00:38:10   anarchists ends and people on 4chan I

00:38:13   don't think anybody thinks that rules

00:38:15   are bad it's just that they want to they

00:38:17   want to make their own set of rules they

00:38:19   want to make the rules they want to they

00:38:21   want to cobble together some rules from

00:38:23   the things that their parents told them

00:38:24   that they didn't resent some of the

00:38:26   crackpot ideas that they read in some

00:38:29   magazines some things that came to them

00:38:32   in a dream and one or two arbitrary

00:38:36   things just to make other people

00:38:38   you know just like keep people jumping

00:38:41   and then people walk out of the door and

00:38:43   they're like these are my rules and

00:38:46   everybody get out of the way you know

00:38:47   and and and it may sound like that's

00:38:51   what i'm doing but that's not what I'm

00:38:53   doing it all again that you're doing it

00:38:55   at a much deeper level my rules are are

00:38:57   my rules are ancient i'm using ancient

00:39:00   rules

00:39:01   mhm yes but i can't my rules can't

00:39:05   compete with somebody who read the

00:39:06   secret because Oprah told them to and

00:39:08   now they've got a bunch of rules based

00:39:10   on the secret that starts to really

00:39:12   degrade the whole idea of what the rule

00:39:13   is you know that at the point when you

00:39:16   introduce that much magical thinking I

00:39:18   gotta tell you buddy i think i think

00:39:20   he's moving get out of the way I mean

00:39:22   that's nothing for inflation rules that

00:39:24   is you know that they really is it's

00:39:26   like a sort of one of those rules like

00:39:27   flush you know what flush

00:39:29   it's okay flush right that's a good rule

00:39:32   if it's yellow

00:39:33   don't let it throw not seriously don't

00:39:36   dumb if it's yellow flush that's your

00:39:38   money away

00:39:39   sure monic flush yeah that's it but if

00:39:42   you live in a tree house is a cone

00:39:46   these are these are things that we're

00:39:48   passing on to our children you know if

00:39:49   you make a mess clean it up you know if

00:39:52   you read my if you're if you read mark

00:39:54   twain all this is in there if you read

00:39:58   if you read Hemingway it's all there

00:40:00   yeah flush right i mean if Hemingway

00:40:04   doesn't have a short story titled flush

00:40:06   well he doesn't but he should have and I

00:40:09   think I think that messages

00:40:11   it's threaded through its thread through

00:40:14   all cultures right right that it's

00:40:18   difficult to not be able to get

00:40:19   directions and you should flush I think

00:40:22   it's there that's the old man and the

00:40:23   sea right so you know it's have sympathy

00:40:27   for men because it's sometimes hard to

00:40:30   get an erection

00:40:31   that's right that's that's one of the

00:40:34   top ten rules Andy taciturn I mean why

00:40:37   do you think I mean they're men get a

00:40:39   bad rap but it's hard to be a man from

00:40:44   women me well know from men to from you

00:40:47   know these men that

00:40:49   that is again so that's a no on all the

00:40:53   thing or fleece thing I think it's an

00:40:55   allen all the thing you could be I mean

00:40:56   please PLEASE came directly from Alan

00:41:00   Alda huh

00:41:01   please there was no fleece before Alan

00:41:03   Alda you know I would I captain I don't

00:41:06   know I wouldn't want to Calais no don't

00:41:09   please don't use that word fallacy

00:41:11   it's a it's got a dick right in the

00:41:13   middle of it is that one of John were

00:41:15   sisters word hates you get introduced me

00:41:17   that guy may have met him he won't

00:41:18   remember me but you gotta eat sounds

00:41:20   like you guys are pals from the tree got

00:41:21   any drum loops from that guy was really

00:41:24   neat rom lives being pals with jon

00:41:26   wurster is it's more difficult than it

00:41:28   looks really well jon wurster is a very

00:41:31   little monkey

00:41:32   he's an extremely funny and extremely

00:41:34   intelligent person who has carved a life

00:41:37   for himself in rock and roll which is a

00:41:40   world of morons and so jon wurster has

00:41:45   done what a lot of smart people in

00:41:46   rock-and-roll has done which is he's

00:41:48   he's very careful not to he doesn't like

00:41:52   put streamers up and balloons up just

00:41:56   because you say something funny to him a

00:41:58   couple of times you know he's not like

00:42:00   oh my god hi be my friend you know use

00:42:02   the heel height what did you do

00:42:04   how'd you get in there who me yeah I

00:42:06   wouldn't even I wouldn't even say I was

00:42:08   in there I mean we we did a tour

00:42:10   together and when and we like each other

00:42:12   but it's there just announced to know I

00:42:15   know he was playing drums in the jay

00:42:20   farrar ben gibbard Jack Kerouac based

00:42:24   side project band and I did I i did a

00:42:27   tour with them

00:42:28   that's right but I think jon wurster and

00:42:30   I even though now we've known each other

00:42:32   not you know known each other for a

00:42:34   couple years we're still in the the the

00:42:37   friendly circling stage where we say oh

00:42:42   hello you

00:42:43   yes well there you are arched eyebrows

00:42:46   yeah like snitches care after yeah

00:42:48   there's a little bit of cheer sniffing

00:42:50   and it's not i I don't I never I do not

00:42:53   approach someone like jon wurster with

00:42:55   the expectation that he is going to

00:42:57   appreciate

00:42:59   that i am one of the greatest living men

00:43:02   see this is another one that that's the

00:43:05   problem the problem again with my better

00:43:07   but in his case of with somebody like

00:43:09   jon wurster I don't you know I don't I

00:43:11   don't consider a problem because jon

00:43:13   wurster probably when he's lying in bed

00:43:16   at night also suspect that he may be one

00:43:18   of the greatest living men and there's

00:43:20   not a lot of room in town for too many

00:43:24   greatest living men you can't have that

00:43:26   many of them in the same small western

00:43:29   town or there's gonna be a gunfight

00:43:31   absolutely the pity of it is that

00:43:33   because of the nature of this challenge

00:43:35   is you'll never be able to have a

00:43:37   benefit to help these men because first

00:43:40   of all you all of you guys hate playing

00:43:41   benefits but second of all the people

00:43:44   who need it the most

00:43:45   the men who are asking themselves these

00:43:46   questions the men to men who are the men

00:43:49   who are asking mi of a caliber of

00:43:52   somebody who would want to hang out with

00:43:53   me i think i think you're not always

00:43:55   getting the help you need let alone the

00:43:56   audience just don't know how you do that

00:43:58   I don't know you hate playing benefits

00:44:00   you be very you don't hate plan benefits

00:44:02   I think you should be very clear about

00:44:03   you hate had a sort of the hypocrisy of

00:44:05   not paying the band for benefits and I

00:44:08   have to imagine the John washer doesn't

00:44:09   like people either

00:44:10   yeah i mean i don't hate not being the

00:44:12   band for benefits i just hate paying

00:44:15   everybody but the band for benefits

00:44:17   right i mean that what i wrote that

00:44:19   article for the weekly just saying hey

00:44:21   if you're if it's a benefit then

00:44:23   everybody should work for free if it's a

00:44:25   benefit and all the production people

00:44:27   and the promoters are getting paid

00:44:30   ya know just to clear their money aware

00:44:34   this may be the third or fourth time are

00:44:35   is heard it but I would see you

00:44:37   republished it in the weekly after after

00:44:40   having run it several times in my

00:44:41   kitchen 5 i've read this particular

00:44:44   article on numerous occasions before it

00:44:47   was ever in whatever print is now I

00:44:49   think the version but that I that I

00:44:51   wrote in your kitchen was the was the

00:44:54   best version it had a lot more efforts

00:44:56   and i had to water it down for a lot of

00:44:58   water there's a movie called rules of

00:45:00   the game and sports i hope not

00:45:04   it's a very old mostly read more but i

00:45:07   always get the name wrong that is great

00:45:08   quote from a movie

00:45:09   the awful thing about life is this

00:45:13   everyone has his reasons and I I for

00:45:16   some reason I find that quote kind of

00:45:18   Intel apply to google to get the exact

00:45:19   wording right but the awful thing about

00:45:21   life is this everyone has his reasons

00:45:22   and I think that's a lot of what you're

00:45:24   saying I think everybody has their

00:45:25   reasons this is not a value judgment but

00:45:27   i think i think the person who's

00:45:29   standing in the middle of the fucking

00:45:31   aisle while I just want to get some

00:45:32   fucking pasta I can see it it's right

00:45:35   there I could see it i could see the

00:45:36   brand i got the kind i want the thing i

00:45:39   don't want the vermicelli and I want the

00:45:40   fat one in between I could see it right

00:45:41   there but you know what you're standing

00:45:43   there you're saying because you're

00:45:44   having some kind of little little moment

00:45:45   now I've got my reasons which is that

00:45:47   i'm correct and i have a child I need to

00:45:50   feed ya have limited amount of time that

00:45:52   I would rather not spend staring at the

00:45:54   back of your fucking head while you

00:45:56   smelling room I could die here behind

00:45:58   you

00:45:58   yeah now that person probably has there

00:46:00   is no their reasons are probably wrong

00:46:01   to testifying a little bit i think but

00:46:03   but but go on

00:46:04   well not nothing I don't think

00:46:05   internment away before no no I don't

00:46:07   think you're being dramatic of course

00:46:08   you couldn't marry again being very

00:46:10   even-keeled yeah I and that person wrong

00:46:14   as the reasons are probably does have

00:46:17   their reasons i doubt they have thought

00:46:18   it through as thoroughly as i have and i

00:46:20   doubt that they feel the certainty in

00:46:23   their black heart yet i have in my very

00:46:25   uh kind of off-white one

00:46:27   yeah I don't think better off without

00:46:30   flat-band get away from her

00:46:32   I'm afraid nothing off white is a color

00:46:34   you she's not sure that that's a pretty

00:46:36   good name for something wrong color for

00:46:38   a heart

00:46:39   I don't know I don't know I just the

00:46:40   thing is I'm here putting that decision

00:46:42   I have a version of that same idea and

00:46:44   it's a paraphrase I don't remember who

00:46:45   said the original thing probably yet or

00:46:49   or one of the great men of history one

00:46:52   of the one of the men like me right and

00:46:55   I don't when I say man I don't mean to

00:46:56   exclude women now I just it's pretty

00:46:59   much man

00:47:00   I trusting I just like to include women

00:47:02   under the overarching category of men

00:47:05   right men men kind including women

00:47:09   supinator students and that sort of

00:47:13   frequently come out in the terms and a

00:47:15   dependent clause that probably could

00:47:17   have been mostly left out

00:47:18   yes well you're gonna bleep all that

00:47:20   anyway but uh but but the idea that i

00:47:23   carry around is that everybody is have

00:47:26   a difficult day like if you are having a

00:47:31   difficult day you can pretty much rest

00:47:33   assured that everyone else is also

00:47:35   struggling to get through today and get

00:47:38   home and do whatever they do and it is a

00:47:43   it is it's a kind of shorthand that

00:47:47   keeps me in an empathetic posture even

00:47:53   surrounded as I am by morons and tools

00:47:57   to know that they also are struggling

00:48:00   and that they're that the fact that they

00:48:01   are a moron only makes it harder for

00:48:04   them and it increases the this up my

00:48:08   sympathetic feeling so that I don't

00:48:11   resort to murder also double murder or

00:48:16   justifiable homicide or or even just

00:48:18   steaming I mean my biggest problem in

00:48:22   life it's steaming I spend so much time

00:48:25   steaming and and I frankly my broccoli

00:48:31   is limp from over steamed king- uh-huh

00:48:37   but i but seriously I just can't turn it

00:48:40   off

00:48:41   there's no no the house just like valve

00:48:43   right now Merlin I swear to you I am

00:48:45   feuding with a half a dozen piece of

00:48:48   people and at least four of those six

00:48:51   people don't know that we're in a feud

00:48:54   I'm sitting here steaming about

00:48:56   something steaming and there blindly

00:49:00   going about their lives talking about

00:49:03   knowing this AR the constant source of

00:49:05   steam

00:49:06   yeah yeah I'm pissed at them for

00:49:08   something generally it's that I'm pissed

00:49:10   at them because they didn't they owe me

00:49:12   a phone call made and now it's too late

00:49:14   now when they call I won't accept the

00:49:16   call because they screwed up somehow and

00:49:21   that's steaming is no good you know

00:49:23   that's

00:49:24   I should go to an Alcoholics Anonymous

00:49:26   meeting and talk about those who don't

00:49:28   do that don't do that

00:49:30   I I i just want to point out one thing

00:49:33   I'm not saying I'm not saying that

00:49:36   because we are both right everybody has

00:49:39   to be wrong because i'm not going to

00:49:41   actually say that that's valid I think

00:49:43   that's you can apply that if you have

00:49:44   half a fucking brain

00:49:45   I don't need to say that because that's

00:49:47   gonna make us look bad but you should be

00:49:49   able to pick that up that's a ok but

00:49:51   here's the thing this is B and this is

00:49:52   what you and I have in common and most

00:49:54   people need to get in common with us is

00:49:57   what we're not saying that what you're

00:49:59   doing is wrong per se accepted as much

00:50:02   as it is wrong it's just more that what

00:50:04   we're saying is that our paths that we

00:50:06   are introducing to you keep moving and

00:50:08   get out of the way it helps everybody

00:50:09   there's nothing about I defy you as one

00:50:13   of the people who needs our help to say

00:50:15   you show me one part of keep moving and

00:50:17   get out of the way that harms people

00:50:18   right

00:50:19   nothing well think about it does it's a

00:50:21   Hippocratic it doesn't know only of

00:50:23   moving and get out of the way is that

00:50:24   you can continue to do your stupid

00:50:27   thinking within the context of either

00:50:31   moving or getting out of way

00:50:33   take your time you can you could be full

00:50:35   of your own stupid thoughts

00:50:37   yep and yet also be either moving or out

00:50:41   of the way

00:50:42   yep and so that cart turns yeah yeah I

00:50:45   what we I think we've reduced it now to

00:50:50   the the colonel

00:50:52   yes and I have to say trying to think

00:50:56   about the grand unification theory this

00:50:59   is the thing about Stephen Hawking boy

00:51:01   if if his grand unification theory or

00:51:06   whoever comes up with that final grand

00:51:08   unification theory that that that unites

00:51:11   macro physics with microbiology and it

00:51:15   doesn't include keep moving or get out

00:51:19   of the way it cannot be exclusive of

00:51:22   keep moving or get out of the way right

00:51:24   because that is a that is a core truth

00:51:27   and so that truth should also be present

00:51:30   in the the in in orbiting bodies large

00:51:35   and small

00:51:36   it's absolutely true and i can remember

00:51:39   it's a theological theological argument

00:51:41   design it's one of those arguments it's

00:51:43   one of those arguments we're getting you

00:51:45   no good god must exist because he not

00:51:47   the ontological but like as because

00:51:49   God's cool it's one of those it's to

00:51:51   Descartes thing I don't make us because

00:51:53   God's cool that they can I came from

00:51:57   actually from st. Thomas Aquinas region

00:51:59   originally but he I think improved on it

00:52:02   here's the thing though this is what the

00:52:03   Liberals need the liberals don't have

00:52:05   this first far they lack are cocksure

00:52:06   sense of certainty right they sometimes

00:52:09   are sure but they very seldom put the

00:52:10   cock in it and that is part of the

00:52:12   problem

00:52:12   ok now here's the other thing with the

00:52:14   pocket that's another record that's

00:52:16   that's true that's well I don't know

00:52:18   Hawking talking doesn't work blue very

00:52:20   much

00:52:21   here's here's the problem and this is

00:52:22   this go straight to the Hawking I think

00:52:24   it's straight to the movies and straight

00:52:25   to the Liberals is that is that if

00:52:28   you're going to have this supernal

00:52:30   approach to things we are basically

00:52:32   walking around like open everything

00:52:33   turns out okay and don't question

00:52:35   anything you could do a lot worse than

00:52:37   to make your your your Bureau your kind

00:52:40   of BS political belt and Chong you could

00:52:43   do a lot worse than making it about keep

00:52:45   moving and get out of the way and in

00:52:47   fact if I could take it in turn it

00:52:48   briefly i think that is the message that

00:52:50   most of these people in place need to

00:52:51   hear which is you my friend need to

00:52:53   either keep moving or you need to get

00:52:54   out of the way and possibly both

00:52:56   right well the message the problem with

00:52:59   the flow with the fleece people is that

00:53:02   they they have they taken it as their

00:53:06   responsibility to speak on behalf of all

00:53:09   the people who they believe cannot

00:53:12   either keep moving or get out of the way

00:53:15   because of some disadvantage that these

00:53:18   other people have or because of the fact

00:53:21   that they simply need an advocate and

00:53:24   the police people are the self-appointed

00:53:26   advocates of all the great many people

00:53:30   who either cannot keep moving or get out

00:53:32   of the way and the the problem is that

00:53:35   there is no one who cannot either keep

00:53:38   moving or get out of the way it's not

00:53:40   hurting anybody except you keep moving

00:53:42   and get out of the way the fleece people

00:53:44   as soon as they hear that they think

00:53:46   well what about the people who can't

00:53:48   keep moving

00:53:48   right without our people without ever

00:53:50   examining the fact that those people

00:53:52   that you are supposedly quote-unquote

00:53:55   defending could actually benefit to

00:53:58   begin with from both keeping moving and

00:54:00   getting out of the way but also you know

00:54:02   what maybe they don't need somebody who

00:54:03   shops at whole foods to help explain

00:54:05   their life to other people

00:54:06   well that and that's what we that's the

00:54:08   problem we get into so now not only

00:54:09   there's the original person who needs to

00:54:11   lose either keep moving and economically

00:54:14   and now there's meeting everyone

00:54:15   now there's a person in there now

00:54:18   there's a fleecy beardy person and his

00:54:21   wife with that with the big hoop

00:54:23   earrings and the Guatemalan purse she

00:54:26   made the earring she's thinking of doing

00:54:27   it as a business and they're standing

00:54:29   there now they're standing there with

00:54:31   the with the original person who should

00:54:33   have kept moving or getting out of the

00:54:34   way and they're they're trying to argue

00:54:36   with you about how this person you know

00:54:39   how they need an extra minute or how

00:54:41   this person shouldn't be asked to you

00:54:43   know they don't understand what you mean

00:54:45   or and this I don't they saw something

00:54:48   in the nation and with some statistics

00:54:50   about both getting out of the way and

00:54:53   keeping moving

00:54:54   yeah there's a whole European influence

00:54:56   from back in the you know 1,500 here you

00:54:58   got a whole cortez the killer thing

00:54:59   going on

00:55:00   well the presumption is that that you're

00:55:03   you you're getting out of the way of

00:55:04   someone who's superior minutes it

00:55:06   instantly becomes a Marxist problem yeah

00:55:10   there's nothing to overthink your John

00:55:12   does your dad is nothing to overthink

00:55:14   this is this is empirical it's a priori

00:55:17   yeah be safe to say that but you know

00:55:19   that the police people will other police

00:55:22   people would overthink

00:55:24   [Music]

00:55:33   I've done