The Incomparable

315: Show Some Respect for the Chimp

 

  come see the Cassidy and comfortable and [TS]

  many other podcasts at the now hear this [TS]

  festival in anaheim california October [TS]

  28 through 30th go to now hear this vest [TS]

  dot-com for more information [TS]

  the incomparable number 315 artists 2060 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable it's another edition of [TS]

  what we like to call old movie club our [TS]

  movie grab and in this edition we are [TS]

  going to be talking about sunset [TS]

  boulevard from 1950 and stat like 17 [TS]

  from 1953 now Philip Michael's always [TS]

  picks the movies and I wanted to ask [TS]

  Phil right up front here it is the theme [TS]

  so these movies directed by billy wilder [TS]

  he had a hand in the script they start [TS]

  William Holden and is that what was the [TS]

  theme you're looking for here or is it [TS]

  movies that strangely have famous [TS]

  directors in bit parts is that also was [TS]

  thinking that movies [TS]

  yes Bavarian Bavarian adjacent film [TS]

  directors again supporting roles this [TS]

  was the theme it's a very important part [TS]

  of cinema later tonight we'll little [TS]

  later tonight we'll be watching grand [TS]

  illusion and talking about that [TS]

  alright it was just it was good to see [TS]

  erich von stroheim have auto premature [TS]

  as he was meant to be seen and cecil b [TS]

  demand accessibility mill absolute last [TS]

  Turkey and also a director [TS]

  yes it's true alright let me introduce [TS]

  the the panel you already heard from [TS]

  Philip Michaels and you heard from [TS]

  buster keaton and erich von stroke and [TS]

  referring to is here to everything that [TS]

  buster keaton had to say [TS]

  also joining us Monty Ashley hello hi [TS]

  there [TS]

  Steve Lutz is here hello hooray it's me [TS]

  yay india echo is also here hi Andy [TS]

  adding I damn more'n sign in signing on [TS]

  here I excellent Erica enzyme hi present [TS]

  and shannon sudderth hello hello I am [TS]

  big [TS]

  it's the podcast that got small you're [TS]

  you're telling me [TS]

  yeah alright uh Phil where should we [TS]

  start to restore chronologically with [TS]

  some simple over and start [TS]

  chronologically with sunset boulevard [TS]

  because i think it frames the William [TS]

  Holden we run into a few years later in [TS]

  a in a little bit better light but I saw [TS]

  sunset boulevard the most recently and [TS]

  it's committed to memory now so um yeah [TS]

  so the the movie opens up and William [TS]

  holding his dead whoops not affected [TS]

  yeah he's able to boil errs through a [TS]

  voiceover which I'm sure that we will [TS]

  discuss the effectiveness of it later on [TS]

  yeah so William Paul it will be million [TS]

  polden William Holden is floating [TS]

  facedown William Lordan yes that's it [TS]

  folks floating facedown in the pool shot [TS]

  shot to pieces and telling us hey you [TS]

  want to know how I got here will let me [TS]

  tell ya [TS]

  let's go to a flashback where he is a [TS]

  screen writer in Hollywood who is not [TS]

  doing up terribly well for himself [TS]

  people are coming to repossess his car [TS]

  he can't sell a movie to save his life [TS]

  not to up not to faint character actor [TS]

  Frank 4i i always get Fred Clark I [TS]

  always forget him confused with that [TS]

  yes guy whose name is Frank count [TS]

  something else other right Frank Nelson [TS]

  thank you Frank Nelson and fred clark [TS]

  they're very similar to mustachioed [TS]

  balding men who were famous in their day [TS]

  anyhow fred clark doesn't want to buy [TS]

  any of William Holden movies uh he's [TS]

  driving back the car repo men see that [TS]

  he's his car wasn't loaned out like he [TS]

  said it was and they they we have a [TS]

  chase sequence which is unusual for [TS]

  Billy Wilder movie but there you go and [TS]

  William Holden ends up taking shelter in [TS]

  a mansion on the titular Sunset [TS]

  Boulevard which is owned by fading [TS]

  silent movie star [TS]

  Norma Desmond as played by fading silent [TS]

  movie star Gloria Swanson and it is at [TS]

  this point that we learned that Gloria [TS]

  Swanson is or at least as Norma Desmond [TS]

  is well checked out from reality still [TS]

  thinks that the next big part is going [TS]

  to be just a just a phone call away and [TS]

  in fact she is in writing a script [TS]

  herself that will launch her her great [TS]

  comeback in which he finds out that [TS]

  William Holden is himself a scriptwriter [TS]

  she insisted he reads it which is when [TS]

  William Holden who we should mention is [TS]

  is is a pretty scuzzy little fella hits [TS]

  upon the theory that well all dr. her [TS]

  script and I can [TS]

  I doubt here from my creditors and maybe [TS]

  make some some cash to pay them off arm [TS]

  and thus begins the the plot where she [TS]

  gets here [TS]

  clutching her clutches deeper and deeper [TS]

  into him he becomes are the kept man uh [TS]

  and [TS]

  she falls for him and he wants nothing [TS]

  to do with her because she's 50 gross [TS]

  haha he was on like in real life he was [TS]

  12 years younger than her when they made [TS]

  this movie so it was like it's like me [TS]

  about it guys it's in his defense she's [TS]

  not well [TS]

  no no they just look old she just looks [TS]

  crazy great yeah they they make some [TS]

  deliberate choices on how to present [TS]

  Gloria Swanson this movie which I'm sure [TS]

  we'll talk about later as well on a we [TS]

  should mention that uh William Holden [TS]

  keeps having run-ins with a script [TS]

  reader at the studio of Betty shapers [TS]

  the character's name the actresses nancy [TS]

  olson and no she's dating a surprisingly [TS]

  Pepe Jack Webb the peppiest Jack weapon [TS]

  you ever see Ronnie too i did not have [TS]

  to double take when i looked it up [TS]

  yeah um the they begin working on a [TS]

  script together and they began quite [TS]

  clearly falling for each other this [TS]

  which is complicated because again [TS]

  William Holden is a kept man [TS]

  Gloria Swanson's a jealous woman [TS]

  William Holden finally has enough and [TS]

  decides to leave and we can get into the [TS]

  details of that later i'm just trying to [TS]

  some of the plot quickly [TS]

  ah and that's when Gloria Swanson plugs [TS]

  and full of holes and has her final [TS]

  psychic break with reality leading to [TS]

  the famous scene where the police come [TS]

  together come to get her and the a4 [TS]

  mentioned erich von stroheim who was who [TS]

  is both her butler and the first husband [TS]

  was happens and a and a former director [TS]

  of connives the way to get her out of [TS]

  the house is to pretend that she is [TS]

  again in a movie and she descends down [TS]

  the stairs well [TS]

  erich von stroheim is yelling out [TS]

  direction and it's very haunting and [TS]

  horrifying and that's when she delivers [TS]

  the line [TS]

  that besides get the middle is ready for [TS]

  my close-up mr. DeMille I'm ready for my [TS]

  close-up that is probably the second [TS]

  most famous line in the movie besides [TS]

  I'm still bigots the pictures that got [TS]

  small and and movie and but eventually i [TS]

  guess they fish William Holden out of [TS]

  the pool center later they sure let him [TS]

  float for a long time no see he gets [TS]

  he's gonna he's gonna pickle in the air [TS]

  right Lu so I'm Matt that's the movie in [TS]

  a nutshell and down didn't take us to [TS]

  onto something up moving on to start [TS]

  like seven no no no [TS]

  wow you really blasted through that [TS]

  field AI wanted to wanted to get the [TS]

  plot out of the way so that we don't [TS]

  have time to interrupt you [TS]

  yeah well I that was my goal to your [TS]

  bottom that would ya [TS]

  so let's go back to the beginning yeah [TS]

  okay I yield the floor [TS]

  well my first know was that I thought it [TS]

  was really cool that we could have [TS]

  started zoomed in on the street sign [TS]

  that says Sunset Boulevard but we start [TS]

  facedown in the gutter Enzo yeah looking [TS]

  at on Sunset Boulevard painted on the [TS]

  curb [TS]

  yep which kind of tells you where the [TS]

  story's gonna go [TS]

  I like how it screams film two are at [TS]

  you exactly like double identity where [TS]

  you have all of the hallmarks of a [TS]

  voiceover you have the derringer saying [TS]

  so I'm already dead when this movie [TS]

  stars don't expect a happy ending now [TS]

  see that threw me for a loop because he [TS]

  looks different enough floating in the [TS]

  pool and and film from underneath that I [TS]

  wasn't certain that it was him in fact [TS]

  for a long time I didn't think it was [TS]

  him and I kept waiting for than this [TS]

  this new character to arrive that's [TS]

  gonna get shot and end up floating in [TS]

  the pool and in fact he starts off as [TS]

  the narrator calling himself a poor dope [TS]

  at which point i wrote down you've got a [TS]

  pretty rough when even the narrator [TS]

  cause you poured oh but it turns out it [TS]

  was him so that makes a lot more sets [TS]

  but yeah that I I was kind of thrown off [TS]

  by that I think that was a byproduct of [TS]

  how they had to shoot the the [TS]

  underwaters in the because i had to use [TS]

  mirrors because they couldn't get a [TS]

  clear shot with the camera underwater [TS]

  and protected in any way and also the [TS]

  police you the police detectives [TS]

  wouldn't have shown up clearly in the [TS]

  shot either so [TS]

  I think that's why William Holden kind [TS]

  of looks odd and not himself when he's [TS]

  on he's floating upside bill just hold [TS]

  your breath for another 5 10 minutes [TS]

  we've got the shadow set up the can we [TS]

  start with just the question of Weiss i [TS]

  have a dead guy narrate the story as [TS]

  opposed to simply start off with ok he's [TS]

  on the run from creditors and we don't [TS]

  know how this story is going to end up [TS]

  why was the why do you think that choice [TS]

  was made well like I said it's a kind of [TS]

  a film our staple really its to tell the [TS]

  audience this does not have a happy [TS]

  ending [TS]

  so that the whole time you're watching [TS]

  it even the brief moments of completely [TS]

  under dr visit my I think the moment he [TS]

  decides that moving in with Gloria [TS]

  Swanson instead of running in any [TS]

  direction other than that way including [TS]

  prism is not as a way to go [TS]

  I think that's when we know that these [TS]

  things are not going to work on this [TS]

  will not end well i like i like the [TS]

  whole movie in retrospect though I [TS]

  wonder if that was just kind of flashy [TS]

  if you if they started it straight [TS]

  I don't know if we would've been better [TS]

  better known for any worse I don't know [TS]

  as a movie viewer I i'm always sort of [TS]

  counting on the happy ending so I feel [TS]

  like my experience watching this film [TS]

  would have been very very different if [TS]

  they had just gone instead I would have [TS]

  expected the happy ending with him [TS]

  because you know they really built up [TS]

  his relationship with the little script [TS]

  writer lady and you know be it looks [TS]

  like looks like things could work out [TS]

  for him and the only reason that the [TS]

  only reason that I'm not you know really [TS]

  rooting for that is because I know and I [TS]

  appreciate a pet now it adds to the [TS]

  emotional punch towards the end it's not [TS]

  that he himself has become a better [TS]

  person but he's at least sort of trying [TS]

  to do the right thing he guides Betty [TS]

  back to her fiance and breaks it off [TS]

  with her pretty cruelly but he's like [TS]

  look you know this is the only way she's [TS]

  gonna believe me and he sets her back [TS]

  out of his life and then he's working to [TS]

  take himself out of Norma's life hoping [TS]

  that you know she'll get over him and [TS]

  then she'll go back to her happy fantasy [TS]

  and things will be okay and he's gonna [TS]

  go back home to Ohio so in his own way [TS]

  he's trying to do the right thing and [TS]

  yet you know what's coming in that kind [TS]

  of makes it a little more wrenching I [TS]

  found out like [TS]

  good move on his part and and I i took [TS]

  from that William Holden this kind of [TS]

  full of self-loathing and also load is [TS]

  everything about Hollywood at this point [TS]

  because i think it's an interesting [TS]

  moment where you sort of it I expected [TS]

  anyway that he's either going to push [TS]

  Betty away and stay or he's going to [TS]

  leave with Betty and instead he pushes [TS]

  her away and makes to leave like you [TS]

  know you need to go do something else [TS]

  that's not with me and I need to get out [TS]

  of here and I I thought that was a that [TS]

  was a moment of surprise for me even [TS]

  though knowing that he's gonna get shot [TS]

  that he's so you know he's not gonna [TS]

  even try to make it work with Betty he [TS]

  knows that it's no good she needs to go [TS]

  to her boyfriend and go back to him and [TS]

  and and just get him get William Holden [TS]

  out of her life I always said I was [TS]

  surprised by that he does he kind of [TS]

  knocks down the whole house of cards you [TS]

  know kinda on the way out i see you [TS]

  suckers [TS]

  yeah he's the one who pushes her into [TS]

  madness finally by well short trips yeah [TS]

  it wasn't it was a gentle push but look [TS]

  at the butler whose name i cannot [TS]

  remember what matters right max that's [TS]

  it after starting our letters by writing [TS]

  the better make fan letters and making [TS]

  her still think that she's wanted and [TS]

  then yeah it's really William Holden who [TS]

  cares down that sort of the only thing [TS]

  desired madhouses our old car yeah it is [TS]

  currently strange to me that the [TS]

  narration never makes a note of the fact [TS]

  when it gets to the point where he's [TS]

  been shot that oh yeah that's me I'm [TS]

  floating in the pool i'm dead and it [TS]

  just kind of goes on and and he's [TS]

  talking about stuff that he can't [TS]

  possibly have known about places [TS]

  hovering over as a ghost that's always [TS]

  bothered me i feel like the narration [TS]

  should stop once your character is dead [TS]

  accepting we start with the character [TS]

  that one anymore he could be dying else [TS]

  then this is all covered in Sunset [TS]

  Boulevard to okay i love i love that [TS]

  about the narration that first thing you [TS]

  hear is hey I'm dead that's me floating [TS]

  there let me tell you how I got to this [TS]

  point is you're like but you're already [TS]

  did it's like yeah but I'm the narrator [TS]

  too so I got another job to wait before [TS]

  i descend into hell I got a few more [TS]

  things to tell you about a mutual friend [TS]

  and I of Jason and minds i used to [TS]

  describe the open [TS]

  the movie as I can't believe that crazy [TS]

  broad shot i don't have the whole movie [TS]

  is like his last thoughts like ya light [TS]

  flashing before I doesn't hold up [TS]

  because you that only the dragon his [TS]

  corpse out of the pool and he still [TS]

  yammering along in the dryer [TS]

  no he's now in the afterlife as a movie [TS]

  narrator that's his name rigor mortis is [TS]

  that it that's as hell he's gonna not [TS]

  participate in the worst possible [TS]

  narrative conventions of all the [TS]

  voice-over the alcohol left me my face [TS]

  puffy as it was I don't know where this [TS]

  water's gonna do [TS]

  closed casket closed casket I'm gonna [TS]

  lay out all my cards out on the table [TS]

  I don't like the narration yeah it's not [TS]

  really necessary i don't think i [TS]

  overdoing I like it but again just [TS]

  because it makes it such a film noir [TS]

  movie it is into our that yeah i mean i [TS]

  agree it's sort of plays up to a lot of [TS]

  narration in film noir I think works out [TS]

  you need to have someone specific point [TS]

  of view you can have an armistice [TS]

  Commission point of view in this you [TS]

  have to have here is what i'm seeing at [TS]

  the time remember that in this into any [TS]

  entire mansion has been its itself as a [TS]

  fantasy land that's built up so that [TS]

  this one woman thinks that everything [TS]

  makes sense and everybody who's part of [TS]

  that fantasy has been building into it [TS]

  for so long and with such conviction [TS]

  that they don't believe it but they [TS]

  don't question it anymore so you need to [TS]

  have a narrator who says oh my god I'm [TS]

  the first one to walk into this monkey [TS]

  house who's telling everybody you don't [TS]

  realize how bad it smells in here even [TS]

  love your soul you don't smell exactly [TS]

  it's literally a monkey yeah that's what [TS]

  that smell is the dead chimps oh yeah [TS]

  the character can't really express that [TS]

  because if he does then his little ruse [TS]

  about you know ghost writing your script [TS]

  is ruined so i guess it makes sense that [TS]

  has to be done via narrow my God he's [TS]

  literally ghostwriting it lady your [TS]

  house reeks is not gonna work is there [TS]

  also a little bed I detected a little [TS]

  bit from the very beginning that he [TS]

  knows that the script is not going to go [TS]

  anywhere but there's some part from that [TS]

  same wait a minute and i know that i'm [TS]

  basically a basically gigolo for this [TS]

  for this woman but I'm now for the first [TS]

  time actually being paid to work on a [TS]

  script for a big star who can actually [TS]

  get on the lot now that he thinks gonna [TS]

  go it's gonna go anywhere but maybe at [TS]

  some point he's instead of being the [TS]

  person who can [TS]

  get anything going anywhere at least [TS]

  even himself when he got with somebody [TS]

  gets into the orbit of this this this [TS]

  crazy house can say well now i'm an [TS]

  actual working screenwriter met the [TS]

  bottom of the wrong but at least i'm on [TS]

  the ladder right now but by that point [TS]

  he's already kind of given up on it [TS]

  right like he goes in he's like oh yeah [TS]

  I've given up on writing i basically I'm [TS]

  just a kept man like he starts I agree [TS]

  starts out there down that path but like [TS]

  you wear his he could have pursued that [TS]

  further and try to you know push it he [TS]

  eventually sort of gives up and resigns [TS]

  himself to the life of being a kept man [TS]

  there's a key scene that I really like [TS]

  which is like the last little bit of his [TS]

  soul getting sold away he tries to exert [TS]

  some professionalism and editorial [TS]

  authority over her terrible screenplay [TS]

  and says this whole scene needs to come [TS]

  out we don't need to see you do this and [TS]

  she said you don't need to be in every [TS]

  scene and she said yes I do [TS]

  he's like all right back in I don't know [TS]

  I feel like the last straw is really [TS]

  when the car which is his ostensible [TS]

  reason for being there is dragged away [TS]

  registration spite of his efforts iin [TS]

  yet i was thinking the the scene at the [TS]

  New Year's party where he rushes back [TS]

  because she's tried to kill herself you [TS]

  know because he's almost out [TS]

  he's a lot of bad there's a lot of bad [TS]

  happened but he goes back [TS]

  yeah I like um i want to mention I I [TS]

  like a lot of the Hollywood wraparound [TS]

  stuff here that is not like the primary [TS]

  plot but it's just that this the [TS]

  trappings of this film or so glorious [TS]

  his a pitch to try and get his scripts [TS]

  old which is where he meets Betty and [TS]

  she doesn't like his script there's that [TS]

  the producer throws off the horrible [TS]

  baseball movie that yes you're not [TS]

  making a girl's softball team that [TS]

  killed me that was just so great and and [TS]

  later what you know what later we get [TS]

  some more of the Hollywood stuff when [TS]

  she goes and meets this will be the mill [TS]

  and they're there at the studio and they [TS]

  put the spotlight on on her and all of [TS]

  that it's like I really liked that idea [TS]

  of the end waxworks poker game where she [TS]

  has the famous silent movie stars over [TS]

  to play poker at her house [TS]

  relax when they never say anything [TS]

  that's also such a sweet moment to which [TS]

  he goes back to the set they the people [TS]

  there are excited to see here the people [TS]

  she worked with love her and [TS]

  really want to see her and even the [TS]

  person even the people who have not been [TS]

  part of this fantasy for the past 10 15 [TS]

  years ago I cannot break this woman's [TS]

  heart and tell her why she was [TS]

  mistakenly but that she's under the [TS]

  impression that we wanted back on the [TS]

  set because we love her too much [TS]

  literally only when the spotlight is on [TS]

  her which I thought was such a great [TS]

  mind a second they pull it off everybody [TS]

  dissolves and walks away and then the [TS]

  boom mike comes down she spots like it's [TS]

  a fly this is hovering down i love that [TS]

  scene because they had the sense not to [TS]

  make a whole new set [TS]

  Cecil B DeMille working director have a [TS]

  said he was shooting on just went over [TS]

  there and use that I love everything [TS]

  like that in every movie like that [TS]

  especially especially knowing that they [TS]

  had to they still had a rent and book a [TS]

  huge movie crane and huge lighting [TS]

  system just to be in front of the actual [TS]

  camera the actual lighting system they [TS]

  rented I love every scene like that I i [TS]

  enjoy the biliousness of of billy wilder [TS]

  towards hollywood because they're when [TS]

  they're doing that the pitch of the [TS]

  softball movie they're naming these [TS]

  actors that could play the right card [TS]

  and a greater William Demarest yeah and [TS]

  there's a throwaway line about you and [TS]

  have rejected gone with the wind and [TS]

  that was many was no that was me here [TS]

  who wants to see a civil war picture [TS]

  yeah I think that's probably the most [TS]

  for me the most fascinating thing about [TS]

  the movie is the fact that it got made [TS]

  at all given that you know Hollywood has [TS]

  to be projecting this view of the Dream [TS]

  Factory and you know I these workers are [TS]

  all they love each other and it's just [TS]

  this wondrous rainbow land where nothing [TS]

  bad ever happens and I'm sure the fact [TS]

  that all of these silent actors were [TS]

  basically sidelined and and a good [TS]

  percentage of them probably were going [TS]

  silently nuts in there the laminated [TS]

  mansions you know thinking of the glory [TS]

  days is not something that they wanted [TS]

  to get out there but it's funny how many [TS]

  movies i feel like use that whole trip [TS]

  to of like well talking talkies didn't [TS]

  agree with the segment pictures when you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah that's true but there were what [TS]

  like 20 years of of silent pictures [TS]

  before there were there were like you [TS]

  know now been like a year to the talkies [TS]

  we're still very focused on that and the [TS]

  other joke that I want to mention that [TS]

  that I thought was a nice securing of [TS]

  Hollywood is where he describes some a [TS]

  screenplay that he did work on that you [TS]

  might have seen and he said I wrote it [TS]

  was about okies in the dust bowl by the [TS]

  time i got may be played out on a [TS]

  torpedo boat it's like what [TS]

  it's just i love i love to just you know [TS]

  the whole citizens of Hollywood and how [TS]

  I mean these are the same jokes that [TS]

  people make today about Hollywood is it [TS]

  isn't it is not different but i love [TS]

  that there is that moment like wow this [TS]

  is pretty lacerating for a movie that [TS]

  you know obviously got made with a [TS]

  budget and became a became famous I'm [TS]

  not surprised about that because [TS]

  Hollywood loves movies about itself but [TS]

  it is pretty lacerating the factor get [TS]

  it but it also wound up like playing [TS]

  well in the bigger cities and not doing [TS]

  very well in like small towns and it [TS]

  wasn't up for several years as it they [TS]

  released it ended by then become [TS]

  something of a classic that that it [TS]

  solidified that's not surprising right [TS]

  at me as so many sort of Insider E [TS]

  things they they play well to the people [TS]

  who actually are are on the insides [TS]

  weird that well Wilder was so given to [TS]

  those jokes given that you would think [TS]

  that at that point in his career if he [TS]

  wrote a script he could be pretty sure [TS]

  that's what's going to show up in a [TS]

  movie right now and then we'll get to [TS]

  this later installments 17 but the [TS]

  apparently the studio suggested maybe [TS]

  not making it a German prison camp [TS]

  because they want to tell you are they [TS]

  wanted to sell it show it in Germany and [TS]

  the and that was polish prison guards [TS]

  yeah and that was the light and that [TS]

  ended up being the last movie he made [TS]

  for that studio so so he he had is a [TS]

  opinions and they were generally write [TS]

  about things I i guess i gave him short [TS]

  shrift during the during the summary but [TS]

  the erich von stroheim i really like his [TS]

  performance and he's very good yeah [TS]

  really here it's all the notes of being [TS]

  of being just heartbroken for throughout [TS]

  yeah even for his part in that I think [TS]

  what he gave up he could have been there [TS]

  a lot of directors that made the [TS]

  transition very very well and he was as [TS]

  big as they say he was he could probably [TS]

  have made it big but he was bit his his [TS]

  career was this person and this is [TS]

  another case where you see again [TS]

  this bubble of delusion inside this [TS]

  house I i love when the things i love [TS]

  about that ending is that he's when he's [TS]

  a pretending to be directing her she's [TS]

  coming down the staircase and pretending [TS]

  that the press photographers are all [TS]

  like movie cameras [TS]

  he's doing he's doing things that really [TS]

  are taking him back to when he was there [TS]

  a powerful director you see him glancing [TS]

  up the lights glancing at this one [TS]

  making sure that this person is ready a [TS]

  lot more than he needs to sell this to [TS]

  this crazy delusional women's I'm [TS]

  completely disconnected break he could [TS]

  just say you okay little puppy and time [TS]

  to yap yap yap for your doggy treat but [TS]

  it's there i think this part of him that [TS]

  actually kind of like being back in [TS]

  control of a film set again [TS]

  well there's that earlier scene when [TS]

  they're when they're at the studio and [TS]

  he points out it with this used to be my [TS]

  office it took up this entire space so [TS]

  yeah yeah that his performance is kind [TS]

  of like a revelation on the first time I [TS]

  became aware of this story was god help [TS]

  me [TS]

  The Carol Burnett Show her spoofs of [TS]

  Norma Desmond and feedback [TS]

  yes it yeah Harvey Korman doing max and [TS]

  you know to go from that and then to [TS]

  finally see the movie it's based on and [TS]

  see you know just how much more is there [TS]

  in their performances and in the script [TS]

  um it's a i love it i actually I mean [TS]

  one of the things that I have throughout [TS]

  this movie is this sympathy for the [TS]

  people who are making it because i know [TS]

  that in many cases they lived this right [TS]

  i mean these were people who actually [TS]

  you know Gloria Swanson was a silent [TS]

  movie star who didn't work a lot after [TS]

  that Erich von Stroheim you know he [TS]

  tried to greed just legendary movie but [TS]

  he didn't direct movie after the early [TS]

  thirties so you know I think that in [TS]

  some ways when I look at erich von [TS]

  stroheim as Max and he he doesn't you [TS]

  know he's just a butler and he doesn't [TS]

  direct anymore it's like there's gotta [TS]

  be some residents in that too so but it [TS]

  is a but you know regardless it is a [TS]

  really fun performance and i like i like [TS]

  that character a lot and you feel the [TS]

  sadness and and the loyalty to her like [TS]

  I could I could not believe her i could [TS]

  not be away from her he says that's it's [TS]

  a it was the first test [TS]

  and I don't remember that was I know [TS]

  that reveals is so good [TS]

  yeah there's a scene as a as she's [TS]

  descending the stairs and he's directing [TS]

  her when I was just take a quick close [TS]

  up of him and you just see him swallow [TS]

  and it says so much in that just that [TS]

  one moment and from there i think they [TS]

  cut over to hedge hopper bawling and [TS]

  that that just kind of had but it does [TS]

  take a lot of guts now do you think [TS]

  about you talk about it about two if you [TS]

  worry that people in the real world have [TS]

  this perception that your career is over [TS]

  with your know where you're nobody til [TS]

  your carrier is completely finished 20 [TS]

  years ago this no transfer come back [TS]

  nobody cares about you and someone says [TS]

  we'd like you to play the part of [TS]

  someone who used to be big 20 years ago [TS]

  used to do the job you did 20 years ago [TS]

  was as big as you artwork 20 years ago [TS]

  but right now it's nothing nobody knows [TS]

  where he is and no one cares about you [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  that takes a certain amount of [TS]

  confidence that it's fat it's [TS]

  fascinating if you read the the the [TS]

  trivia for this and I i'm sure it's that [TS]

  this is actually true I mdp IMDb trivia [TS]

  as opposed to made-up IMDb trip [TS]

  jessica anderson it but they billy [TS]

  wilder and Charles bracket went to a lot [TS]

  of um silent movie film actresses to try [TS]

  and convince them Mary Pickford and a [TS]

  bunch of people maybe I'm a West and i [TS]

  believe is Mary Pickford when they [TS]

  pitched it to her [TS]

  they could see her growing visibly [TS]

  disgusting state they are telling the [TS]

  story and they just sort of like stop no [TS]

  pal we are sorry for taking your time [TS]

  we're going to go now please don't give [TS]

  us that wasn't justice toughest Oh [TS]

  actually we came we we contact you [TS]

  because we wanted your car like all your [TS]

  pardon her about want to be back again [TS]

  to be a big big star [TS]

  yeah we have at this place role of a [TS]

  pathetic crazy old woman hysterically [TS]

  think she still has a career and the [TS]

  first person we thought it was you [TS]

  missed it again that got some of them [TS]

  it's got to be like Oh a role again [TS]

  yeah we worry i mean for Norma Desmond [TS]

  that reacts to the same thing right it's [TS]

  like is some proper was perfectly happy [TS]

  to keep working in these the sloppy [TS]

  sloppy movies to be a look at Acts [TS]

  murderous to be paralyzing from [TS]

  characters i was going to say that the [TS]

  scene where she does her bathing [TS]

  beauties number [TS]

  you can draw a direct line from that to [TS]

  whatever happened to Baby Jane mm-hmm [TS]

  those are very similar performances but [TS]

  I don't know that I would consider this [TS]

  a pathetic like the character is [TS]

  pathetic [TS]

  yeah but the performance you get to act [TS]

  as much as you possibly can [TS]

  uh-huh right you're guaranteed to get [TS]

  anything water yeah Gloria Swanson is [TS]

  terrific in this video she has and I [TS]

  think a lot of that is because she she [TS]

  was a silent actress and I mean the [TS]

  whole point of being a silent actress is [TS]

  to overact as much as humanly possible [TS]

  right you can't get it done with with [TS]

  your with your voice and boy does she [TS]

  ever [TS]

  yeah and I think she was able to throw [TS]

  her throw herself into the role very [TS]

  well the fact is that unlike some of the [TS]

  actresses that they approached she had [TS]

  transitioned to radio and television and [TS]

  stage she was still working she just [TS]

  wasn't working in the movies and you [TS]

  know when they approached her you know [TS]

  she wasn't necessarily looking to go [TS]

  back to the movies but she's kind of [TS]

  like this is an interesting role like I [TS]

  can see myself doing this and she was [TS]

  not she was very good friends with [TS]

  Michael kurties the director of [TS]

  Casablanca he he said if you don't take [TS]

  this rule you're you're you're dumb you [TS]

  take the role not not every active [TS]

  reactor could have taken this real [TS]

  leader it really does require you to be [TS]

  that kind of professional that can bury [TS]

  your own ego and then in the interest of [TS]

  making this character work because if he [TS]

  if someone who is who is more self [TS]

  invested in their own image would say [TS]

  well i'm going to say that she's been [TS]

  sort of wrong by these other people and [TS]

  the reason why she turns out the way she [TS]

  does because everybody's been bullying [TS]

  her even though she's awesome and great [TS]

  and she just sort of broke because of [TS]

  all this often pressured know she was [TS]

  okay with saying that she was she's had [TS]

  continuous problems in the 1990s or [TS]

  2,000 we might say that she was [TS]

  exhibiting behaviors that were [TS]

  diagnostically helpful by a trained [TS]

  medical observer but she's willing to [TS]

  basically stripped herself of all this [TS]

  dignity to become this person that again [TS]

  she's living in this glass dome but as [TS]

  soon as you put a crack in that dome [TS]

  she's gonna do everything she has to [TS]

  repair that and prevent a real air from [TS]

  coming in I mean any talking about the [TS]

  present day i mean the the [TS]

  this is a story also about fame and the [TS]

  insulating of fame right because she's [TS]

  just she is insulated even though she's [TS]

  lost it and you know she's got a pet [TS]

  chimp she's cut max there sorry [TS]

  well I peach and all those pictures of [TS]

  her and do some respect for the cheat [TS]

  she is insulated entirely from reality [TS]

  here which famous people to this day our [TS]

  are that the whole time I was watching [TS]

  this I just couldn't stop thinking about [TS]

  michael jackson and john over here you [TS]

  got the end of his life I mean you know [TS]

  not just because of the chimp but you [TS]

  know how did by the fact that you know [TS]

  she had nobody in his life who was going [TS]

  to tell him no this is ridiculous what [TS]

  you're doing he just had so much power [TS]

  and he was insulated from the real world [TS]

  and and yeah i mean he's certainly not [TS]

  the only one that was just you know the [TS]

  monkey made me think of that i wanted to [TS]

  mention a counterpoint to Norma Desmond [TS]

  there's a really nice scene very late [TS]

  without Betty where Joe is talking to [TS]

  Betty about her background and she says [TS]

  that she was going to be an actor but it [TS]

  didn't work out she got her nose fixed [TS]

  and because they said well you know [TS]

  you've got a problem he knows she got [TS]

  her nose fixed and then she came back [TS]

  and said yeah also you're not a very [TS]

  good actor [TS]

  sorry about the nose thing she says she [TS]

  doesn't miss the spotlight and i really [TS]

  love that because who do we know who [TS]

  really really loves the spotlight and [TS]

  and and she is happy to be [TS]

  behind-the-scenes she wants to work in [TS]

  the pictures she comes from a picture [TS]

  family she's a script supervisor she [TS]

  wants to be a screenwriter she's you [TS]

  know she's interested in Joe so she's [TS]

  not entirely on the right track she's [TS]

  got some things about her that I met you [TS]

  it's just it she is kind of a healthy [TS]

  counterpart counterpoint to Norma [TS]

  Desmond and I really like that scene [TS]

  where she's she says that she doesn't [TS]

  mean i'm gonna i'm going to counterpoint [TS]

  your counterpoint ok ok [TS]

  wow yeah QED i think actually Billy [TS]

  Wilder kind of stacks the deck against [TS]

  poor Norma in this movie and in fact [TS]

  that whole the montage where they have [TS]

  are getting ready for the part doing [TS]

  these horrible [TS]

  beauty things and fitness things that [TS]

  was actually a a very bitter argument [TS]

  broke out between billy wilder and and [TS]

  Charles bracket the screenwriter the [TS]

  coast screenwriter e over it [TS]

  bracket thought it was too cruel and [TS]

  Billy well this says I you're stupid and [TS]

  they your parents like that too [TS]

  they apparently came to to blows almost [TS]

  over it and Billy Wilder got his way [TS]

  cause he's the director and as soon as [TS]

  the movie was over Billy Wilder inform [TS]

  Charles bracket they would never work [TS]

  together again and that was that Bow and [TS]

  then Charles bracket with slowly in San [TS]

  that he went mad [TS]

  shampa got shot by greta garbo I I tend [TS]

  to agree with Charles bracket i think [TS]

  they they lay it on a little bit my [TS]

  grave a little a little bit thick on on [TS]

  poor Norma although although at the same [TS]

  time it is kind of a you know it is a [TS]

  critique of the the idea that continued [TS]

  into this day and age of a woman of a [TS]

  certain age being unable to get roles in [TS]

  Hollywood because you know they've sort [TS]

  of aged out of that demographic sure [TS]

  it's it's a fine line to walk and I [TS]

  think occasionally the movie trips over [TS]

  the line yeah I I think you could say [TS]

  that about a lot of thing I mean it is [TS]

  very over inflated and very the whole [TS]

  movie is kind of a not quite a pastiche [TS]

  but right it is it is a grotesque it is [TS]

  it's above and beyond sort of all think [TS]

  it's funny how when he first drives in [TS]

  and he sees the house my immediate [TS]

  thought was that it was a great [TS]

  expectations which he then calls out [TS]

  like 30 seconds after i bought it you [TS]

  mentioned that was like oh okay well [TS]

  we've hit the nail on the head there but [TS]

  it is that sort of you know it is an [TS]

  over-the-top movie as we in her acting [TS]

  in the plot in in all that and it works [TS]

  because it's in service of of the point [TS]

  yeah I don't think the beauty routine at [TS]

  the end is any any worse than anything [TS]

  that we've seen going up to that point [TS]

  to be honest with you in particular like [TS]

  the the bathing beauty thing and that [TS]

  her little chaplain routine which is one [TS]

  of the most terrifying things ever see [TS]

  here that discordant music by that it is [TS]

  just super super creepy i'm actually [TS]

  scared of Charlie Chaplin now because of [TS]

  that scene [TS]

  Buster Keaton probably appreciated that [TS]

  watch him and I think all god you should [TS]

  be CI told the chaplain was bad [TS]

  obviously the the scene with with all [TS]

  the beauty stuff that she does to me I [TS]

  didn't it didn't seem like it was laying [TS]

  on that thick because you guys it's not [TS]

  that far removed from some of the stuff [TS]

  i have done myself justice i was i was [TS]

  the signal just about just now that if [TS]

  they had really made this movie like [TS]

  right now that seems there's been so [TS]

  many knives or be so many needles it [TS]

  would be like hammers and chisels that [TS]

  was like mellow was anyone else impress [TS]

  the Betty got her nose fixed for 300 [TS]

  bucks when you think of me that was even [TS]

  if I think in 1950 yeah my first thought [TS]

  was why would a bargain but how much our [TS]

  costs so mean i would have thought that [TS]

  plastic surgery to get say like a minor [TS]

  knows imperfection fixed you know was [TS]

  something that came several decades [TS]

  later and and she mentions it in such a [TS]

  matter-of-fact way that it must have [TS]

  been at least in Hollywood relatively [TS]

  normal even then I don't mention just [TS]

  one more thing which is how great the [TS]

  atmosphere is put in that dilapidated [TS]

  house with the a.m pool and the tennis [TS]

  world is yours well done and in [TS]

  particular the the little bit the very [TS]

  small detail of the wind that causes the [TS]

  pipe organ Tom so yeah it is i think the [TS]

  best thing in the movie for me as usual [TS]

  anyone who plays a pipe organ is crazy [TS]

  that's just so perfect because it always [TS]

  the wind always seems to blow at exactly [TS]

  the moment when a creepy organ note is [TS]

  called for and I thought it was [TS]

  fascinating to even think about you [TS]

  going in I knew some of this stuff about [TS]

  the movie I knew that he was dead-- [TS]

  going in because i actually got that [TS]

  like a trivia question a few years ago [TS]

  well it's it's a very well parody does [TS]

  absolutely absolutely and and i think [TS]

  but for me like sort of getting a handle [TS]

  on a the movie was much funnier at parts [TS]

  not expected though Billy Wilder of [TS]

  course and b it is kind of a horror [TS]

  movie right like oh she's playing the [TS]

  Phantom of the Opera points [TS]

  well yeah and it made me think a lot of [TS]

  psycho to you know just in terms of [TS]

  there are some similarities just in some [TS]

  of the shots and some of the some of the [TS]

  treatment and the story structure it's [TS]

  it's an interesting it's an interesting [TS]

  movie because that's more interesting [TS]

  than I initially thought it would be [TS]

  it's so malleable you're right in that [TS]

  you can you really could make it into a [TS]

  car [TS]

  maybe you could be interpreted as a [TS]

  horror film kind of a black comedy yeah [TS]

  black black comedy is what i think and [TS]

  he said you could almost view it as a [TS]

  tragedy [TS]

  no not almost that is exactly how i view [TS]

  and that's that's actually why I'm not a [TS]

  fan of this movie because I'm don't [TS]

  generally like tragedies all that much [TS]

  add I thought well I thought I had seen [TS]

  this before and I didn't mean that i [TS]

  hadn't liked it and i watched it and [TS]

  realized actually I don't remember [TS]

  anything about this but I still don't [TS]

  like it because for me I just can't see [TS]

  Norma Desmond as this character that i [TS]

  was just watching it descend farther and [TS]

  farther into the depths of a very [TS]

  uncomfortable mental health issue and it [TS]

  I i know that there's dark humor to it [TS]

  and I absolutely understand people [TS]

  seeing it from those other perspectives [TS]

  but for me it was just nothing but sad [TS]

  sad sad all the way through and I was [TS]

  just running out by the end and kind of [TS]

  glad it was done [TS]

  yeah it's more tragedy to me than [TS]

  anything else as well is it and in [TS]

  particular because everyone around her [TS]

  as such sympathy for but had they have [TS]

  no means of of changing anything and [TS]

  they certainly can't fix her and any [TS]

  attempts to do so just drive for further [TS]

  down the path but I mean there's [TS]

  certainly William Holden character [TS]

  certainly has sympathy for as he comes [TS]

  rushing back you know even though he's [TS]

  disgusted with the way that he's been [TS]

  around her you know it comes rushing [TS]

  back after he hears that she's committed [TS]

  or attempted suicide and the first [TS]

  husband also is doing hanging around [TS]

  traffic we can obviously Cecily to mill [TS]

  you know is is is saddened and and not [TS]

  sure what to do and and kind of box on [TS]

  actually telling her that she's not [TS]

  supposed to be in the picture and it's [TS]

  just the whole thing is very very sad to [TS]

  me and that to me was that kind of [TS]

  overarching emotion that I took away [TS]

  from it more than any of the comedy or [TS]

  horror elements I don't think has the [TS]

  form of a tragedy like like a lucha de [TS]

  la more which is kind of similar in [TS]

  which it ends with the the major female [TS]

  character having this total disassociate [TS]

  of break only the Opera ends with her [TS]

  dying actually and but the thing is it's [TS]

  that's a proper that that's that's what [TS]

  i consider to be a more traditional [TS]

  tragedy and that we really don't want [TS]

  you we were following this woman luchia [TS]

  and we're trying to work every time [TS]

  something bad happens [TS]

  we're really not seeing it there anybody [TS]

  else's eyes were really hoping all this [TS]

  is terrible hope she makes her way out [TS]

  of this but we're pretty sure that [TS]

  because of the format of this opera [TS]

  that's not gonna happen [TS]

  the only thing that makes me not [TS]

  primarily think of this movie is a [TS]

  tragedy is that I think that she is the [TS]

  figure Norma Desmond is the figure that [TS]

  does things other people you know what [TS]

  she's manipulating other people [TS]

  constantly so that we don't feel badly [TS]

  for her but we're more concerned about [TS]

  what she's done to this poor director [TS]

  who's throwing away his career when he [TS]

  might go into the ok but its individual [TS]

  its internal visual perception and what [TS]

  your money says very very good too and [TS]

  that will talk about this when we talk [TS]

  about stall 17 but it's interesting when [TS]

  used look at events that were kind of [TS]

  common and throw away and maybe even [TS]

  clich├ęd scenes that now but when we [TS]

  look at when we have a scene in which we [TS]

  see the men peeping at women showering [TS]

  through a telescope [TS]

  that's the law go huh wacky barracks hi [TS]

  Jace is like know that that's a crime [TS]

  that's terrible [TS]

  you shouldn't be doing that horrible [TS]

  you're you're all horrible people for [TS]

  doing that when i was an english class [TS]

  in tenth grade I remember you know when [TS]

  we were learning about what tragedies [TS]

  are you know the real basics are a [TS]

  tragic events an unhappy ending [TS]

  you know that the main character falls [TS]

  at the end and I think we do have all [TS]

  those pieces but the one thing that my [TS]

  teacher said that I always remember it [TS]

  is that that for him the true hallmark [TS]

  of the tragedy is that you can kind of [TS]

  see it coming all the way through the [TS]

  the fillmore the story and i think that [TS]

  this I mean it [TS]

  we start with the main main character [TS]

  the POV character dead at the very [TS]

  beginning of it all that's the least [TS]

  tragic thing about it really i know and [TS]

  then the other main character ends up in [TS]

  jail [TS]

  I just yeah I think there's there's no [TS]

  truer definition for from from my broken [TS]

  heart [TS]

  at this point I feel for max to watching [TS]

  his replacement move into the house [TS]

  yeah I thought about that like he has to [TS]

  watch finally got rid of that monkey and [TS]

  I'm another haha so what you're [TS]

  suggesting is that sunset boulevard is [TS]

  about a director who murders of monkey [TS]

  to get ready [TS]

  crap well no my prequel is about that [TS]

  all ok that's the wide sargasso sea of [TS]

  sucks it that's a sunrise Boulevard nice [TS]

  but i was reminded a lot strangely [TS]

  enough of of let the right one in which [TS]

  you know features the companion to the [TS]

  oh yeah Empire the old companion [TS]

  yeah and and the the new fellow comes in [TS]

  the old one has to stand by and help her [TS]

  out and watches the new guy sort of [TS]

  takes over his position [TS]

  it's a very sad many sad things in this [TS]

  movie will you hold it [TS]

  we haven't given a whole lot of props [TS]

  we've talked about a Joe Gillis is [TS]

  character building there buddy but what [TS]

  about William Holden great float about [TS]

  him [TS]

  wonderful floater when you haven't got [TS]

  William Holden I like William Holden not [TS]

  afraid to be unsympathetic know yet [TS]

  mostly I mean there's flashes here and [TS]

  their sympathy I think there's he [TS]

  brought a lot of nuances to the [TS]

  character um I wound up seeing this [TS]

  again after several years after Stalag [TS]

  17 so it was really interesting to watch [TS]

  him inhabit a totally different type of [TS]

  cynicism um you know yes he's still sort [TS]

  of looking out for himself but in this [TS]

  case you know he cares enough about Nora [TS]

  at least you know 20 fears that she [TS]

  tries to kill herself he goes back he [TS]

  doesn't have to but he does he tries to [TS]

  do the right thing at the end getting [TS]

  Betty you know trying to remove himself [TS]

  from the lives of these two women that [TS]

  he feels that he needs to confess you [TS]

  said he needs to get Betty back on track [TS]

  to where she should be in his opinion [TS]

  and and try to shake Nora out of Norma [TS]

  Desmond out of her delusions even as [TS]

  he's getting himself out but I liked how [TS]

  holding himself intended to carry [TS]

  himself he created so many tix for this [TS]

  character there was constantly anytime [TS]

  he had a bit of paper in his hand he [TS]

  would start folding and rolling and [TS]

  playing with it as he's talking on while [TS]

  he's writing always having the pencil in [TS]

  his mouth and his ear things like that [TS]

  he just really brought the character to [TS]

  life for me I like he has a good [TS]

  physicality to him too i mean it like [TS]

  that scene where he goes in to see Betty [TS]

  in her office and he sort of strikes a [TS]

  pose like leaning against the door frame [TS]

  but like it's staged right and you know [TS]

  he's trying to present a certain [TS]

  atmosphere this the sort of [TS]

  devil-may-care and he's playing a [TS]

  character even then with her it's very [TS]

  different from the you know how he acts [TS]

  when he's around Norma and I i really i [TS]

  like holding a lot and I think he's good [TS]

  in this movie so the end interesting [TS]

  just bit of backstory is he was kind of [TS]

  down and out at this point in his career [TS]

  he he had a big splash in 1939 with [TS]

  golden boy and then he spent most of the [TS]

  forties making garbage and not being [TS]

  very good and garbage either and so this [TS]

  this this was kind of his his lifeline [TS]

  in a way in a way he was sort of a male [TS]

  Norma Desmond um getting back into the [TS]

  the big swing of things and yeah it's it [TS]

  it's a very uh nuanced performance I [TS]

  think now he's a little wooden to me [TS]

  must be why you float so LOL relations [TS]

  hired him he's handsome enough fella and [TS]

  and there's something sort of innately [TS]

  likable about him i think and maybe [TS]

  that's just because he is a handsome [TS]

  fella and he carries himself well but [TS]

  also there are points in this movie [TS]

  where I feel like he's expected to emote [TS]

  a bit more than he gives hmm there's not [TS]

  a lot of there's not a lot of emotion [TS]

  that comes out of him anything in this [TS]

  or star like 7-8 well I would disagree [TS]

  with install like 17 on there Steve [TS]

  alright let's move on to start like 17 [TS]

  which we're gonna brighten things up [TS]

  with a story about a not be present a [TS]

  prison camp so Steve was saying just [TS]

  moments ago [TS]

  it's interesting that he should bring up [TS]

  William Holden so performance because [TS]

  it's three years three years after [TS]

  sunset boulevard was made and here is [TS]

  Alex 17 which I feel is a very very [TS]

  different kind of William Holden [TS]

  performance a little bit more assured we [TS]

  will have this discussion later but yes [TS]

  it's set in a prison camp where all the [TS]

  prisoners are apparently sergeants yes [TS]

  and therefore and as the again voiceover [TS]

  narration from [TS]

  he was a sergeant explains yeah you get [TS]

  all the sergeant's in the camp and no [TS]

  one in everyone's uh getting in each [TS]

  other spaces so you open saying how come [TS]

  no one ever makes movies about prison [TS]

  camps you know we're pretty great [TS]

  watching us and we're doing is out they [TS]

  should open with Dunbar floating [TS]

  facedown in the water [TS]

  I can't believe those crazy Nazi shot me [TS]

  so yes so we are introduced to all the [TS]

  members of the prison camp William [TS]

  Holden is sergeant Septon he is the I [TS]

  guess you would call them the prison [TS]

  camp cad the the scrounger he has how to [TS]

  get things he knows how to get things [TS]

  and he Parsons them out for her for [TS]

  money in the form of cigarettes another [TS]

  other Red Cross goods for anyone who's [TS]

  seen shawshank redemption this is red [TS]

  yes very good thank you very helpful uh [TS]

  we meet some other people who are in [TS]

  that in the barracks there's Robert [TS]

  strauss who plays animal was great [TS]

  yeah we'll look at reading about animals [TS]

  great hat role you don't want to get in [TS]

  here that's five officers look at his [TS]

  Lord harvey went back who plays sir I [TS]

  guess you're right Garrett has aged [TS]

  really thick guy eddie's at ease at ease [TS]

  i shave every 20 minutes and digital [TS]

  ferret you always get as sergeant second [TS]

  is to read and shawshank redemption [TS]

  so is a animal to everything Brad gear [TS]

  ever done [TS]

  there's Harvey one back sergeant Shapiro [TS]

  he's he's the sidekick 22 animal he's [TS]

  just as contemptible there's Duke uh who [TS]

  I I realized in this I hate more than [TS]

  happy that he's that he's basically the [TS]

  jerk of the barriers the greaser once [TS]

  can you have that all you got to be [TS]

  there's gonna be a jerk their surgeon [TS]

  prices played by Peter Graves who was so [TS]

  clean-cut nothing could be wrong with [TS]

  him [TS]

  look at that fine Teutonic posture and [TS]

  then there's the the forgettable bag of [TS]

  bones who plays the [TS]

  the head of the the chief of the [TS]

  barracks who I I can't be bothered [TS]

  anyhow the movie opens his Manfredi and [TS]

  Johnson are trying to escape from Stalag [TS]

  17 it does not go very well because as [TS]

  we quickly learned from all the various [TS]

  escapes and plots going on in the prison [TS]

  camp the Nazis have a mole in Stalag 17 [TS]

  in the in that particular barracks so I [TS]

  naturally the suspicion turns 27 because [TS]

  he is not a team player yeah he is [TS]

  clearly he clearly has ends with the [TS]

  guards because he's always doing [TS]

  trainings and getting to sneak over into [TS]

  the the the Russian camp where they hold [TS]

  the Russian women prisoners and you know [TS]

  plot point that I've never really cared [TS]

  for but we establish all this and then a [TS]

  lieutenant is dropped into the prison [TS]

  campus part of a prison transfer is on [TS]

  his way to another camp and we find out [TS]

  that he has a basically sabotage the [TS]

  train because he and his a little [TS]

  searching buddy who is apparently the [TS]

  rich little of the of the US Army in the [TS]

  1940s yeah we can add him to the [TS]

  animated around animal with this animal [TS]

  and just one hell of an audition now [TS]

  that this there's a lot of characters [TS]

  that I don't particularly care for in [TS]

  this movie for a movie I generally like [TS]

  um yeah so they apparently talking about [TS]

  the the sabotage and again the Nazis are [TS]

  wise to it and little attendant is taken [TS]

  away and oh it was probably Septon who [TS]

  who ratted them out except it wasn't [TS]

  because as as he says just as the the [TS]

  guys beat the living crap out of william [TS]

  holden 2nd has the great line that it's [TS]

  there are two guys that know I didn't do [TS]

  it [TS]

  me and the guy who did and so he spends [TS]

  the last third of the movie trying to [TS]

  figure out who the mole is [TS]

  meanwhile the barracks help the [TS]

  lieutenant escape worries he end up [TS]

  hiding in a water tank while they try [TS]

  and figure a way to get them out of the [TS]

  Camp this is when a septum finally puts [TS]

  two and two together and realize it's [TS]

  that night [TS]

  nice sergeant price has been tipping off [TS]

  the Nazis because he's really secretly a [TS]

  German I and he's a champ [TS]

  yes he could not look more German it's [TS]

  either him or that kid with the blog [TS]

  pompadour [TS]

  no I'm from Cleveland this is the exact [TS]

  Snyder version of watchmen Ozymandias of [TS]

  style like seven [TS]

  there's no doubt it anytime yeah this [TS]

  dude is is the spy why you want this [TS]

  area in golden boy here now I'm not hard [TS]

  to believe I was a little thrown when he [TS]

  asked if you had seen a grown man naked [TS]

  but beyond yeah [TS]

  also he's the head of security for the [TS]

  barracks section but yeah sure [TS]

  while the rest of that barracks really [TS]

  suck selecting people they they really [TS]

  they really vetted people out well [TS]

  before they hide the lieutenant there's [TS]

  a previous scene where they get them [TS]

  that the way it works is that the the [TS]

  the guy who's in charge of the other [TS]

  prisoners gets them out into the yard [TS]

  and then they do it little transfer [TS]

  involving a chest piece and and what [TS]

  happens is Septon basically hires in the [TS]

  Bering yes and seniors behind ya and [TS]

  sees peter graves talking to him about [TS]

  the situation room in this sergeant [TS]

  schultz yeah i got all ripped off by [TS]

  Hogan's Heroes yeah and they're talking [TS]

  German and then setting goes on and then [TS]

  he has to figure out window when to play [TS]

  his hand in his hand is forced by the [TS]

  fact that they that they reveal the [TS]

  location of lieutenant Dunbar to peter [TS]

  graves and peter graves volunteers to be [TS]

  the one to break them out of years and [TS]

  I'm gonna get about a prison and so [TS]

  septum has to move right then or the [TS]

  whole thing is up I'm gonna get him out [TS]

  of prison and right into a nice firing [TS]

  squad yeah and uh second makes a very [TS]

  compelling case given the fact that [TS]

  everyone in the barracks apparently [TS]

  hates him that uh this nice clean-cut [TS]

  young Aryan boy is in fact a Nazi double [TS]

  agent and does have physical proof [TS]

  there's the the if he didn't have that [TS]

  chest piece in his jacket yeah [TS]

  I don't think I don't think I would have [TS]

  played for me well there's the Pearl [TS]

  Harbor thing [TS]

  yes yeah yeah also he slaps him which [TS]

  seems to be what really causes everyone [TS]

  take all right yeah an American wouldn't [TS]

  take a slap [TS]

  well then Peter Graves makes a bold for [TS]

  it to which kind of cement yeah yes [TS]

  Peter Peter Graves so it really does not [TS]

  play his hand very well done well under [TS]

  pressure [TS]

  no it ain't just like a Nazi so yeah [TS]

  good burn your Nazi's take that guys who [TS]

  were defeated 6070 years ago so it ends [TS]

  up being second who's going to sneak the [TS]

  lieutenant out of the camp and he uses a [TS]

  section price as the decoy where they at [TS]

  the appointed hour thrown out of the of [TS]

  the barracks the naughty prison guard [TS]

  shoot poorer poor stupid peter graves [TS]

  and William Holden escapes with the [TS]

  lieutenant and able to dominate her [TS]

  after here for big boy job [TS]

  yes just lie down to no one can hear you [TS]

  over the gunfire all Death with Dignity [TS]

  for Peter gray is really although I do [TS]

  wonder how was his house his his attempt [TS]

  to get dunbar and turn him over going to [TS]

  work because all the same things still [TS]

  apply when he leaves the building and [TS]

  get them out of the tank they're just [TS]

  all going to open fire on and I think he [TS]

  was going to sneak over to the to [TS]

  sergeant schultz and say hey is in the [TS]

  water tank and then they would have all [TS]

  gone to the water tank yeah [TS]

  nope just for the rest of the quicks [TS]

  choose another day for sergeant schultz [TS]

  because i keep just I can't get [TS]

  seriously sick room and seeing ceremony [TS]

  and public you Sigmund sacrum and now [TS]

  start a previous old movie club entry of [TS]

  mad at the Opera [TS]

  oh that's right so this movie took me a [TS]

  little by surprise because i looked at [TS]

  the category was in i didn't i didn't [TS]

  know anything about the plot or anything [TS]

  but I saw the category as a war drama [TS]

  and so I had my expectations set always [TS]

  turns out this is where mash and Hogan's [TS]

  Heroes and meatballs stole all the right [TS]

  seriously this is absolutely a common [TS]

  call and else [TS]

  right you know yeah it's a straight up [TS]

  comedy yeah I was not expecting comedy [TS]

  and i'm watching it develop and at first [TS]

  it's like okay yeah they're setting [TS]

  things up and then the two strauss & [TS]

  limbeck start and I'm just like no time [TS]

  I i wrote down my note is this movie has [TS]

  tone problems and i liked it i actually [TS]

  liked it a lot but it is a really good [TS]

  movie in spite of a lot but one of the [TS]

  things about it is it you know you can't [TS]

  say it's just a comedy because honestly [TS]

  the last 25 minutes is really tense and [TS]

  dramatic and interesting that's still [TS]

  funny in a lot of ways the first act [TS]

  features of features two murders [TS]

  I don't think it is a not unlike Sunset [TS]

  Boulevard say I think there are elements [TS]

  of dark comedy I mean it is it is [TS]

  definitely darkened are definitely tense [TS]

  moments but it's still overall I mean [TS]

  it's not like it's not it's not quite [TS]

  the great escape right like it's not [TS]

  it's not just a like straight-up action [TS]

  right yours in victory with sylvester [TS]

  stallone okay Leigh I wind up here or [TS]

  Bridge on the River Kwai with William [TS]

  Holden to talk about the term problems [TS]

  though I mean mobile my problem with it [TS]

  is like it and and you're absolutely [TS]

  right mash I i had a lot of mesh [TS]

  feelings in this especially when they [TS]

  showed off the still ready to play yeah [TS]

  okay so William Holden looks a little [TS]

  too much like Frank Burns for company [TS]

  that's true that's true as a weasel but [TS]

  the beginning of the movie is the part [TS]

  that I had the biggest problem with [TS]

  because its broad and a nes and the [TS]

  problem i have with it is they are [TS]

  prisoners of war in Nazi Germany and I [TS]

  honestly it took me a while to get over [TS]

  the fact that they are joshing with a [TS]

  sig ruman and it's all just kind of [TS]

  wacky and zany and yeah things are tough [TS]

  but we're all just getting on and making [TS]

  things work and I don't know it it felt [TS]

  like it needed to feel a little bit [TS]

  grimmer than that for me to really kind [TS]

  of buy into the movie and I got there [TS]

  eventually because the tone actually [TS]

  does turn about half an hour in but that [TS]

  last half hour slider Vicki and yeah [TS]

  there's that scene where the the rich [TS]

  little of the third uh-huh [TS]

  God put some that they'll wear the [TS]

  Hitler mustaches and are doing writable [TS]

  the Hitler thing that's a weird at that [TS]

  must have played great in 1953 but it's [TS]

  not so kind of kind of disturbing yeah I [TS]

  take off your moustaches [TS]

  I don't know why I laughed my ass off at [TS]

  the head one here I think it's funny I [TS]

  think it's funny but a lot of this movie [TS]

  is contextual right i mean it is a movie [TS]

  that's much much closer to world war two [TS]

  and we don't have the you know 70 years [TS]

  of hindsight when they're when they're [TS]

  making this but I think it's pretty [TS]

  funny I my favorite scene for humorous [TS]

  to see where they convince the german [TS]

  car to play volleyball to distract him [TS]

  from the radio antenna LOL i am [TS]

  delighted that German that is beautiful [TS]

  oh my god [TS]

  here's a wire leading from the from the [TS]

  volleyballs in that into the barracks [TS]

  I've got all but yes I that means [TS]

  nothing to me a lot of things probably [TS]

  distracted by yeah these are not you you [TS]

  imagine it places the stereotype that if [TS]

  you could if you're really good at being [TS]

  brave and shooting at people they [TS]

  wouldn't keep you a member of war camp [TS]

  party people [TS]

  this is everything I could not be more [TS]

  delighted with that German guard he's [TS]

  always been saying included in the [TS]

  volleyball team even though he has no [TS]

  idea how to clap ya hands over his gone [TS]

  over this is pretty serious team that is [TS]

  hilarious and then when he gets caught [TS]

  then he sort of a whoever whoever it is [TS]

  that he handed his gun to just sort of [TS]

  sheepishly hands it over to the the more [TS]

  with it guard that caught my eye i do [TS]

  agree that that it has a bit of a tone [TS]

  problem that you know i would think i [TS]

  like this movie but i think i would love [TS]

  it if they would have taken out every [TS]

  single animal seen ya been able to do [TS]

  that you know when you talk about like [TS]

  the the guard with the volleyball which [TS]

  is ridiculous [TS]

  um and those types of things I mean yes [TS]

  it's comical but the Germans for the [TS]

  most part are the butt of the jokes so [TS]

  especially at that time I can understand [TS]

  the the idea of humor and especially in [TS]

  the humor that's directly pointed at the [TS]

  Germans as look at them you know they [TS]

  lost the war and this is why because [TS]

  they're dumb enough to hand their gun to [TS]

  wanted to some guy playing volleyball [TS]

  and forget about what he's supposed to [TS]

  be doing just remember that just because [TS]

  they're dumb doesn't mean they're stupid [TS]

  that's right before [TS]

  wanna go good point i really wish that I [TS]

  was trying to find a copy of the of the [TS]

  actual stage play was wondering if the [TS]

  stage play was all of the serious [TS]

  dramatic stuff inside the barracks and [TS]

  all the funny stuff that's outside the [TS]

  barracks estar stuff they added open up [TS]

  the world little bit and make it more of [TS]

  a movie the exact opposite robert stroud [TS]

  strauss-kahn Lembeck we're both in the [TS]

  play i believe that shows that they have [TS]

  their timing down perfectly so they can [TS]

  do their comedy bits and animal can just [TS]

  make a face and that's all they need to [TS]

  do and I would like to propose that this [TS]

  is the opposite of a regular movie where [TS]

  you have a drama and then these two [TS]

  idiots as comic relief i think this is a [TS]

  comedy with moments of dramatic really [TS]

  and it was a relief it's actually one of [TS]

  the things that I want to mention was [TS]

  that this definitely feels stage ii and [TS]

  in fact i think that the contrast [TS]

  between the drama and comedy is one of [TS]

  the things that made it feel really [TS]

  stage you to me because I can corner [TS]

  sort of imagine how after you have the [TS]

  scene of of kind of with dramatic [TS]

  tension you also want to have some some [TS]

  comedy bits happening in the foreground [TS]

  on the side of the stage and it feels [TS]

  like that like what like you know [TS]

  ok and this scene is over and now we're [TS]

  going to go back to over here we've got [TS]

  some more weight wacky prison antics and [TS]

  it keeps going back and forth the whole [TS]

  thing is that there is a sort of a [TS]

  premise happening here even within the [TS]

  movie right like they're putting up a [TS]

  front about hey we're just here you know [TS]

  relaxing is where prisoners of war what [TS]

  can we do will be no here for the [TS]

  inspections when they come through and [TS]

  then when the Germans are out of the [TS]

  room you know a lot of times they're [TS]

  doing our Kayla's can be in our [TS]

  committee let's talk about escapes let's [TS]

  talk about all this writing in the beer [TS]

  easy there is a premise yes Eric there's [TS]

  a fiction they're presenting to the [TS]

  guards and like this whole relationship [TS]

  even with Schultz to is you know him [TS]

  like a that dropping the dead right like [TS]

  that they have kind of this weird [TS]

  relationship it's almost not quite it's [TS]

  like a fiction of Stockholm Syndrome [TS]

  almost and so I i'm ok with the tone [TS]

  exercise i saw this movie the first time [TS]

  I don't know 10 15 years ago and I i [TS]

  really i remember being startled by then [TS]

  as I think many of you were now not [TS]

  going into it and not really knowing [TS]

  what it was about especially cuz i think [TS]

  he's shortly around this time i also saw [TS]

  Bridge on the River Kwai is it is Erica [TS]

  saying another William old movie [TS]

  you that's about a prison camp on the [TS]

  other side of the world but you know and [TS]

  I do appreciate you that he makes a [TS]

  comment at some point about like if you [TS]

  get out you just end up flying and then [TS]

  end up in Japanese prison camp like the [TS]

  only I love hard all William Holden that [TS]

  I don't know what's comin one of my [TS]

  favorite books is actually the great [TS]

  escape the non-fiction book from which [TS]

  the heavily fictionalized movie was made [TS]

  at least the book says it's nonfiction [TS]

  there was no the one where the British [TS]

  prisoners are British [TS]

  yes and from that book and from other [TS]

  POWs escaped books I've read they were [TS]

  playing pranks on the Germans an awful [TS]

  lot maybe not to this degree but and I [TS]

  mean the guy who wrote this and who [TS]

  wrote the play who is actually in the [TS]

  movie i believe it i believe it he he [TS]

  was actually [TS]

  was actually [TS]

  instead like 17 I'm ever in a German [TS]

  prison camp i can remember that was the [TS]

  name i believe it [TS]

  Adam driver looks great in this movie [TS]

  yeah he was my favorite of all of them [TS]

  well because he underplays it unlike [TS]

  animal and exactly and shapiro hot the [TS]

  people in cold it's actually had time to [TS]

  build an entire glider in the Attic of a [TS]

  prison didn't launch but and also keep [TS]

  in mind that it [TS]

  keep in mind that they're the version of [TS]

  the war experience by a lot of those [TS]

  people is different from the version of [TS]

  the war that we've seen you know [TS]

  presented after the fact is a lot of [TS]

  them didn't know just quite how you know [TS]

  quite the level of atrocity going on for [TS]

  an excellent catalog of that obviously a [TS]

  band of brothers that seems Bilderberg [TS]

  series you know there's a lot of war [TS]

  being fought with these guys are in [TS]

  prison camps they don't really know [TS]

  what's going on other than their [TS]

  prisoner so I i think you know they're [TS]

  trying to make the best of a bad [TS]

  situation to a certain extent which i [TS]

  think is fine [TS]

  up to a point i like the the I believe [TS]

  it i like some of the probably like that [TS]

  the pranks that working plane of the [TS]

  guards I just I didn't like the the [TS]

  stage ii humor bits that were clearly [TS]

  just for the audience how did you feel [TS]

  about the wild amount of sexual [TS]

  harassment when the new Russian honestly [TS]

  I didn't make I'm not gonna say I liked [TS]

  it but I didn't really have a problem [TS]

  with it because it really seemed fitting [TS]

  for this the time it was really works [TS]

  and russian women didn't seem [TS]

  particularly put off by it either so [TS]

  well there's my purse those women are [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  now you're talking about anytime I do i [TS]

  do enjoy the scene where they paint the [TS]

  line down the record if you just let him [TS]

  throw to throws the video light through [TS]

  that's that's the one seen it there's we [TS]

  know I didn't have an issue with with [TS]

  the tone frankly either but I i [TS]

  definitely agree with you Jason as far [TS]

  as it's sort of feeling like having that [TS]

  sort of stage feeling to it particularly [TS]

  like midway through the second act I was [TS]

  certain it in a stage play something [TS]

  horrible with certainly happen and it [TS]

  would like cast a pall on all the [TS]

  community that came before and [TS]

  everything else would be sort of the [TS]

  resolution or or moving on and now it [TS]

  and i would probably win intermission [TS]

  happen there's literally a moment here [TS]

  without oh that's where the intermission [TS]

  was not sure I can see you thinking it's [TS]

  coming something terrible is going to [TS]

  happen someone is going to be horribly [TS]

  murdered or you know it's just [TS]

  completely gonna cast a pall and [TS]

  everything and never came which I was [TS]

  glad of but the whole way through the [TS]

  movie I was [TS]

  like oh it's coming it's coming this is [TS]

  war drama i saw it on IMDb yeah actually [TS]

  I have been saying I unlike unlike the [TS]

  previous movie we talked about [TS]

  I didn't think that I had seen style [TS]

  like 17 and i didn't think i would like [TS]

  it because i don't like war movies when [TS]

  we started watching it and like 30 [TS]

  seconds and I was like I seen this so [TS]

  not only had I had actually seen it had [TS]

  not remembered i really i quite liked [TS]

  this movie so I but I've come to the [TS]

  conclusion that i don't like war movies [TS]

  but i do like prisoner of war movies [TS]

  especially starring lee holder only [TS]

  welder must really be thrilled with your [TS]

  comments tonight erica i said well i do [TS]

  not remember anything about your movies [TS]

  but ok girl okay i don't know i like I [TS]

  mean mentioning match i love mash it's [TS]

  one of my all-time favorites i love that [TS]

  it mixes comedy and drama and it's got [TS]

  sort of zany high jinks and then rapid [TS]

  shifts into other tones and I got some [TS]

  of that vibe from from stalling 17 and I [TS]

  liked that I got that it's it's like [TS]

  like I said you know there's stuff that [TS]

  I think was maybe a little bit too much [TS]

  for me but i did i did like that aspect [TS]

  of it that they are you know they're [TS]

  making the best of a terrible situation [TS]

  and that there's some sort of darkness [TS]

  of like well you gotta laugh but there's [TS]

  also terrible things that happened i [TS]

  really like the guy that goes Enys don't [TS]

  have voices like that in movies anymore [TS]

  guys know career anymore he's just in [TS]

  his dilapidated mansion waiting for them [TS]

  to call him back [TS]

  so why is animal so horrible you want [TS]

  somebody explain to me because I thought [TS]

  he was great i thought he was great i [TS]

  thought he absolutely nailed a try like [TS]

  animal i think if you didn't know that [TS]

  it was a who was the stage actor and who [TS]

  was the movie actor you could pinpoint [TS]

  accurate that guy's acting on stage is a [TS]

  little broad is what you're saying but I [TS]

  really I i love some of the physicality [TS]

  of both him and shapiro like the c-more [TS]

  holder this cooking the egg and they [TS]

  sort of do the slow rock over there so I [TS]

  mean there's some great [TS]

  there are some great aspects to that [TS]

  performance i can understand people say [TS]

  makes you brought by personally I i [TS]

  really enjoyed the two of them as a is a [TS]

  comedy bit [TS]

  that's because the two of them were sort [TS]

  of separate from everything else going [TS]

  on and yeah that's that I guess it that [TS]

  I guess that's my main problem with them [TS]

  that of [TS]

  they're very broad and I forget who [TS]

  mentioned the the subtle things that [TS]

  William Holden does the state business [TS]

  he doesn't Sunset Boulevard but he [TS]

  really does it here where it's a it's [TS]

  not of he doesn't do a big broad acting [TS]

  performance and he's he's playing scenes [TS]

  with those guys in it [TS]

  speaking of the total problems you've [TS]

  gotten like on the waterfront with [TS]

  marlon brando and that said I rip I [TS]

  really hate duke i think most of all [TS]

  ok.thank he's a jerk I like i was able [TS]

  to keep start starting matches on his [TS]

  face mask about the animated movie is [TS]

  when he was at the end when he realizes [TS]

  that we were all wet on you and he says [TS]

  forget it and lights a match on myspace [TS]

  oh yeah I don't really see where Dukas [TS]

  humiliated is great and has a signboard [TS]

  this is not a very the the original [TS]

  movie version of DOA is not a very good [TS]

  movie but he he plays the heavy in that [TS]

  and our spot alert he dies it is so [TS]

  glorious girl yeah take that Duke but [TS]

  that Duke in this picture don't care i [TS]

  love that William Holden never stops [TS]

  being a jerk oh yes that's right way out [TS]

  even just see the skin knows that neck [TS]

  with all you got ok [TS]

  the one time you see him break is when [TS]

  he first realized that okay if I'm going [TS]

  to live in the next 48 hours I'm gonna [TS]

  have to find out who the u.s. weasel is [TS]

  and just duck here take my cigarette so [TS]

  how about a hundred cigarettes and you [TS]

  know that he was you can see in his eyes [TS]

  if he had not been interrupted that got [TS]

  that Schultz was going to absolutely [TS]

  tell them with what was going down he [TS]

  just the one place he loses his cool and [TS]

  you see the desperation before he comes [TS]

  back again and probably just through [TS]

  happenstance rather than him find his [TS]

  own space center again but still at its [TS]

  I if we had not seen that desperation I [TS]

  think it would have been a lot harder to [TS]

  root for him as we could continue go on [TS]

  anybody do like his attitude of not [TS]

  caring but you're right he does he does [TS]

  crack at that moment and that's the [TS]

  thing where he realizes i guess i have [TS]

  to solve this myself right that like I [TS]

  my old trading is not going to do it [TS]

  here so many subtle things that have to [TS]

  happen like that one [TS]

  and at the very very beginning where it [TS]

  work port is pointing at pointed out [TS]

  that he's not just a weasel who will [TS]

  just take advantage of everybody in [TS]

  every situation he has one maybe it's [TS]

  just two lines he says well the first [TS]

  night I was here I've got my left shoe [TS]

  was stolen my students respond all the [TS]

  stuff was no that's when I learned that [TS]

  you've got to take care of yourself [TS]

  because no one's gonna take care of you [TS]

  in this place yeah and that you still [TS]

  don't think that he's a wonderful human [TS]

  being but you don't think he's just a [TS]

  flat-out ass one more thing that makes [TS]

  it sort of did that made getting into [TS]

  this movie sort of disjointed for me arm [TS]

  was Gil Stratton is character is cookie [TS]

  doing voiceover yeah yeah oh yeah [TS]

  because he has such a at first I thought [TS]

  it was holding because I'd seen this [TS]

  movie first I had didn't remember what [TS]

  holds voice sounded like immediately and [TS]

  I'm going like he sounds way too folksy [TS]

  and come and and gee whiz to to be this [TS]

  character that i read about in the [TS]

  synopsis and it took me the longest time [TS]

  to sort out I I needed that scene where [TS]

  they had everybody in the line and they [TS]

  start naming this one this one this one [TS]

  I'm like thank you now i can sort them [TS]

  all out but that was another point where [TS]

  the voice-over irritated me more than it [TS]

  did in Sunset Boulevard because it it [TS]

  just ended and but so much of it was [TS]

  just the fact that we we never get away [TS]

  from just what a and just want an Archie [TS]

  character who feels like I don't know [TS]

  why we need a voiceover in this one at [TS]

  all either it's really just like hey [TS]

  folks we're making a movie and you're [TS]

  gonna watch it i hope you enjoy it i'll [TS]

  be back later to tell you you're still [TS]

  watching a show [TS]

  traditional hey contribute anything just [TS]

  ask for cookie I felt like that was to [TS]

  putty over the lack of actual narrative [TS]

  for most of it yeah like they were [TS]

  trying to protect it as there was this [TS]

  one thing that happened then there was [TS]

  another thing that happened was kind of [TS]

  vignettes whack the zone student the [TS]

  scenes do not flow one into the other [TS]

  now that is very clear the stage as I [TS]

  feel like that was part of the staging [TS]

  this of the two is like and seen the [TS]

  lights down lights come back up and and [TS]

  there was some of that I want to kill [TS]

  can i mentioned um well first of all [TS]

  share box auto privileges are wanna you [TS]

  gotta favorite scene in the movie so the [TS]

  is at the scene where he puts on his [TS]

  boots just so we happen to get was [TS]

  talking on the phone to Berlin and he [TS]

  takes them right back off he's the sort [TS]

  of man who puts on his boots so we can [TS]

  salute properly on a phone call and it's [TS]

  not just that he has his servant put his [TS]

  boots on for him and then take them back [TS]

  off i like when they lay down some links [TS]

  for him yeah across the mud [TS]

  not only that but remember that he's got [TS]

  that he's got the The Saboteur in his [TS]

  office only to make sure now here's my [TS]

  name is vol make sure they tell you to [TS]

  please talk to the SS you tell him that [TS]

  it was me who got you to confess my name [TS]

  is gone i like it down for ya [TS]

  I got the Mukhabarat for you as my time [TS]

  my tumblr invite also amazing jodhpurs [TS]

  that I think premature [TS]

  yeah oh yeah I don't he dressed himself [TS]

  yes rolls around and he's got the whole [TS]

  story about his family and how we're [TS]

  like well then we're not to go you know [TS]

  the soldiers of the world will always in [TS]

  the back but its best very important [TS]

  thing it's just it's great it's all [TS]

  great [TS]

  well it's an important part because [TS]

  otherwise that the Nazis in this movie [TS]

  are all goofballs and Batman play [TS]

  volleyball women and their guns two [TS]

  prisoners and he he actually lends an [TS]

  air of menace to the the movie where the [TS]

  SS guys who come at the very end are [TS]

  like Oh finally somebody competent is [TS]

  here it's like the when they bring the [TS]

  SS guys in those guys are not yokels but [TS]

  you do get a sense of the rest of the [TS]

  Germans of other than sure box ar-ar-ar [TS]

  guar not their best material sergeant [TS]

  schultz is way more competent than the [TS]

  whole conception Schultz he's friendly [TS]

  but he gets the job just get the jump he [TS]

  and he has a degree of sinister this to [TS]

  him because he has those dark look [TS]

  city that he gives when he's on he's [TS]

  pulling out the chest piece to give this [TS]

  internal stitches by the way Phil if if [TS]

  you enjoyed seeing Neville brand get [TS]

  plugged in DOA you might also appreciate [TS]

  the terrible 1976 horror movie eaten [TS]

  alive [TS]

  don't go haha obviously what you think [TS]

  student and this movie here adding to my [TS]

  netflix queue some other things that I [TS]

  enjoyed about this movie um I like the [TS]

  Washington Sox and the potato soup that [TS]

  made me laugh where everybody hated done [TS]

  eating anybody else need breakfast [TS]

  ok ok you know the socks just started [TS]

  watching any rat race literally AAS [TS]

  horse race with rats where the rat spins [TS]

  around and around and around as all the [TS]

  other rats blow past it may God [TS]

  Seabiscuit they got all the great course [TS]

  names on these rats [TS]

  it's best not to think too hard about [TS]

  how they got that rat to spin around [TS]

  like that don't you know [TS]

  mmm i love the bit about how they get [TS]

  the ping-pong only because sometimes a [TS]

  ping-pong wolf that doesn't come into [TS]

  play nearly as much as i would hope it [TS]

  would but they have their strong up as [TS]

  decorations yeah the Christmas [TS]

  decorations [TS]

  ok and used for making smoke yeah yeah [TS]

  exactly but those are just like funny [TS]

  bits and again that's sort of like camp [TS]

  I jinx mash kind of jokes but I I [TS]

  enjoyed all of that and I liked how that [TS]

  that interlaced with the the overall [TS]

  part plot of who the mole is that was [TS]

  all that was all good i like this movie [TS]

  i thought this movie i I've complained [TS]

  about animal i complained about the tone [TS]

  but the fact is i thought this was a [TS]

  really good movie i thought this was a [TS]

  lot of fun it was not what I was [TS]

  expecting [TS]

  and I thought it was a nice mixture of [TS]

  all those things as we said that you [TS]

  know it's a little bit of Hogan's Heroes [TS]

  and mash and meatballs and stripes and [TS]

  you know all sorts of things that [TS]

  obviously now I realized we're totally [TS]

  ripped off [TS]

  it's the hairs versus the square is yup [TS]

  the Nazis are the squares [TS]

  yeah let's be clear it's a lot of [TS]

  Hogan's Heroes well yeah when I watch it [TS]

  again knowing what's coming [TS]

  i think i will enjoy it more now you can [TS]

  look at that Peter Graves from the very [TS]

  beginning and be like I don't trust that [TS]

  guy i forgot to the spy was yeah having [TS]

  seen this movie a long time ago I guess [TS]

  I was actively trying to [TS]

  get out again so it's cool yeah i was [TS]

  convinced for a while it was quiet Joey [TS]

  I had never seen either of these movies [TS]

  before and and I i looked at the times [TS]

  on them and I went oh our 5000 two hours [TS]

  because there have been times on old [TS]

  movie club where that have sort of drag [TS]

  maybe just then I'll speak to management [TS]

  about that absolutely both of these time [TS]

  just flew by i didn't find myself [TS]

  checking to see how much was left on [TS]

  either of these movies they just blasted [TS]

  through they were entertaining [TS]

  throughout I love them both but they [TS]

  were great good job film [TS]

  yeah thank you for both great I i think [TS]

  this movie rises and falls on William [TS]

  Holden and i happen to really dig his [TS]

  performance in that no matter how much [TS]

  for me here either [TS]

  well to be honest really very [TS]

  interesting well there goes my theory [TS]

  thanks Steve [TS]

  well I don't like about his performance [TS]

  I'm not he did win the Oscar for Best [TS]

  Actor for this by the way I just kind of [TS]

  there for me he thinks he won at first [TS]

  as a consolation for sunset boulevard [TS]

  yeah that some people say it i think he [TS]

  does a very good job of getting this [TS]

  line there there's a line of anger that [TS]

  is uncommon for a performance in the [TS]

  movie like this that really motivates [TS]

  that characters actions and it really [TS]

  comes across well i think with William [TS]

  Holden aye i also think he does a lot of [TS]

  showing uh you see just in the way his [TS]

  hands actively he carries himself I [TS]

  think he tells a lot about the character [TS]

  I just think it's a really confident [TS]

  really uh a solid performance which is [TS]

  funny because he didn't want to do it he [TS]

  Billy Wilder made him go to the sea the [TS]

  stage play walked out at intermission [TS]

  because he thought that the second [TS]

  character was terrible he said I was [TS]

  waiting for that horrible thing to [TS]

  happen it just didn't happen when I say [TS]

  anything that's those are good points [TS]

  villain and i have to agree that the the [TS]

  thing that I did see in his performance [TS]

  that I really liked was the scene where [TS]

  he comes back from the Russian womens [TS]

  barracks and everybody's lined up ready [TS]

  to beat on him and the body language [TS]

  that he has in that scene as he's kind [TS]

  of he realizes he's gonna get clobbered [TS]

  there's a major transition that goes on [TS]

  and in how he carries himself in that [TS]

  seat that [TS]

  is very good and perhaps it stands out [TS]

  for me just because it can you have [TS]

  Robert Strauss and her feet left PEC [TS]

  doing doing something so that people in [TS]

  the back road cleveland and ceiling are [TS]

  definitely playing wingman for William [TS]

  this movie up so that that's why i think [TS]

  though [TS]

  well William Holden drags this movie [TS]

  kicking and screaming to to where it is [TS]

  in my estimation and the and the reason [TS]

  he didn't want to didn't want to play [TS]

  this character is he just thought he was [TS]

  all like a very unlikable a very likable [TS]

  person so I mean I feel like they're [TS]

  there must have been a lot of temptation [TS]

  for him as an actor to try to play this [TS]

  character softer and sort of make him [TS]

  more likeable and you know a good on him [TS]

  for not doing that he didn't he kept he [TS]

  kept him very sort of you know harsh in [TS]

  just not not a good guy and he I think [TS]

  part of that was wilder insisting that [TS]

  yeah and it's all because i think this [TS]

  is the most William Holden that William [TS]

  Holden forbid i really like that he he [TS]

  was the clean-cut guy in the tidy [TS]

  uniform [TS]

  there's that good guys or the slot yeah [TS]

  for the rain burns peril so the skis [TS]

  braised bribing the guards for like [TS]

  fresh clothes and laundry service [TS]

  yeah yeah I think I hit the problem with [TS]

  who I I like holding in this I think [TS]

  septons really interesting character I [TS]

  there's a structural problem that [TS]

  probably comes from the from the screen [TS]

  plan from this from the script from the [TS]

  stage play is Septon feels to me like a [TS]

  character part that not the lead and I [TS]

  feel like the camp needs a lead [TS]

  Antonia its animal and shapiro yeah the [TS]

  lead well I yeah well yeah so anyway [TS]

  there you my theory back to back to [TS]

  something that isn't animal whose [TS]

  terrible the I feel like that is kind of [TS]

  what's the missing piece here is that I [TS]

  almost want Holden to be more clearly [TS]

  like not holding this up on his own that [TS]

  having that other kind of like main [TS]

  mover in the in the cast of the American [TS]

  sergeants and there isn't anybody so [TS]

  he's just sort of it so I when I started [TS]

  judging realizing like oh I guess he's [TS]

  the guy i guess there is nobody else I [TS]

  like the character a lot better a bigger [TS]

  but it'd be my initial read on him was [TS]

  like oh I get it he [TS]

  one of the bit you know he's one of the [TS]

  bits he's the grifter in the corner and [TS]

  it's like nope there's nobody else he's [TS]

  it and i think that i think that doesn't [TS]

  serve him well but I think it's a really [TS]

  good performance i like it a lot i just [TS]

  i think structurally would have made [TS]

  more sense if he had somebody like just [TS]

  like a straight edge to really play off [TS]

  of and clash with and there isn't [TS]

  anybody if only Charles bracket was here [TS]

  to work on the script with me well there [TS]

  you think price learn how to play the [TS]

  washboard during his time in cleveland [TS]

  or the benefit tonight and he's probably [TS]

  just part of his super-secret spy [TS]

  training of o got ya it's like it's like [TS]

  doing the laundry but you just take away [TS]

  the laundry [TS]

  well clearly you've never seen the [TS]

  washboard sequence and swing kids where [TS]

  they just break out the washboard sure a [TS]

  while [TS]

  yeah they may have left the potato soup [TS]

  at the bottom of the barrel who knows [TS]

  you know every single episode of the [TS]

  incomparable these me hungry now I want [TS]

  eggs and potatoes the data services [TS]

  yeah you get it quick before they start [TS]

  watching the sox in here and maybe a [TS]

  soccer too high i just didn't want to [TS]

  put in a word for a i recently think a [TS]

  year ago so saw another Billy Wilder [TS]

  movie set in Germany which is 123 [TS]

  I'm range I I actually enjoyed that [TS]

  movie that was really fun [TS]

  it's just plod it is a lot but it's good [TS]

  but it's funny and a little it's totally [TS]

  sort of over-the-top somewhat satirical [TS]

  it's a good it's worth watching them [TS]

  young horse poo colts that's all you [TS]

  need yeah yeah he's great [TS]

  what is Wilders like percentage hit the [TS]

  movie right before this ace in the hole [TS]

  is amazing yeah you know I i wouldn't [TS]

  say the billy wilder's my favorite [TS]

  director but boy you mean movies that he [TS]

  makes and I've clean joy watching them [TS]

  is that these aren't even my two [TS]

  favorite Billy Wilder movie and I would [TS]

  be some like about that and the fortune [TS]

  the fortune cookie is actually I think I [TS]

  really hurtin too and there's witness [TS]

  for the process yeah with this week we [TS]

  could just we could watch Billy Wilder [TS]

  movies in this thing and and it would [TS]

  fill up a year of program actually billy [TS]

  wilder and Charles Brett bracket wrote [TS]

  the screenplay for one of my favorite [TS]

  movies of all time which is a midnight [TS]

  starring Claudette Colbert autonomy [TS]

  so I know ya always happy to see his [TS]

  name even if he's not directing I'm [TS]

  ready to go check all of his movies and [TS]

  see just how many of them have [TS]

  voiceovers because I've seen that's not [TS]

  always gonna I've seen some like it hot [TS]

  i don't remember if there's voiceover [TS]

  and that no but no house / voiceover [TS]

  free that that's why it is best but it [TS]

  does have really intrusive Cary Grant [TS]

  imitation trip I'll you know what you [TS]

  doin just what you wanted the other yeah [TS]

  you know the imitations guy was really [TS]

  really irritating oh yeah I could [TS]

  totally see him being like the [TS]

  everybody's favorite guy in the present [TS]

  moment where the lieutenant very clearly [TS]

  as exasperated by his wacky impressions [TS]

  it's like can we just get on with it as [TS]

  long as the people in the movie know [TS]

  he's annoying and I think it's [TS]

  deliberate that his impressions or [TS]

  thereabouts [TS]

  I think would make some hateful is that [TS]

  the camp just eats it up so this guy's [TS]

  great girl [TS]

  no he's now do Grable Betty Grable [TS]

  you're missing the conversation of the [TS]

  background this take a look at some [TS]

  point we're gonna have an escape we're [TS]

  going to need to send some guy the wrong [TS]

  direction to get shot at least I can do [TS]

  you think laughs laughs and keep asking [TS]

  for the first get Jimmy tagging Jimmy [TS]

  Durante he'll be dead very soon he was [TS]

  accepted first choice for decoy before [TS]

  priced heard that they don't have their [TS]

  own televisions ok the bar is low i [TS]

  wanted to really briefly say that out [TS]

  there's a scene right after they hide [TS]

  the radio with the Nazis come in and [TS]

  everybody is doing actual nonchalant [TS]

  whistling love that I've never seen it [TS]

  sincerely done before [TS]

  well in Germany they haven't seen like [TS]

  all the cartoons in which we understand [TS]

  the fed's fav right all right I think [TS]

  we're done with the with these two billy [TS]

  wilder movies but perhaps there are more [TS]

  to come [TS]

  who knows who these were gonna probably [TS]

  not yeah there's something else I feel [TS]

  how we do [TS]

  quit while you're ahead i say we did [TS]

  good i had i'm i'm always as I think I [TS]

  mentioned on every show i am always [TS]

  pleased when movies that I pic are not [TS]

  like really derided and people yell at [TS]

  me for for wasting two hours of their [TS]

  evening so yes 1776 here okay [TS]

  that was the one Joe that was there was [TS]

  that point of bayonet yeah no problem [TS]

  alright well i would like to thank [TS]

  everybody Phil Michaels of course as [TS]

  always thank you for picking the movies [TS]

  yeah thank you and also thanks for [TS]

  joining me Monty Ashley Jason check [TS]

  these studs get these couplings Andy and [TS]

  I coke I feel like he may be up to [TS]

  something nonchalantly asleep yeah I [TS]

  couldn't find my ocarina I'm sorry [TS]

  that's the best i could do always been a [TS]

  guy wouldn't even though we didn't even [TS]

  tell him because he's stupid day more [TS]

  and here's a box of ping-pong balls [TS]

  listen Erica inside thank you thank you [TS]

  but if I ever run into any Obama's on a [TS]

  street corner [TS]

  let's just pretend under mat cutter [TS]

  thank you very much for being here [TS]

  always a pleasure and Steve let's thank [TS]

  you thank you Jason and if you need any [TS]

  help with the coffin call me thanks to [TS]

  everybody out there for listening to [TS]

  this episode of old movie club or booby [TS]

  khlo [TS]

  goodbye [TS]

  [Music] [TS]