The Accidental Tech Podcast

206: All You Need Is Five Nerds

 

  mmm already tired of already cranky is [TS]

  gonna be a long show if only there was [TS]

  like a mile beverage you could take that [TS]

  would help you be a little more awake [TS]

  and alert for a little while after you [TS]

  take it that would really come in handy [TS]

  Marco drug pusher I mean of all the [TS]

  drugs that you can be mildly chemically [TS]

  addicted to it is by far the most [TS]

  pleasant at least harmful that's not [TS]

  true i'm sure there are less harmful [TS]

  drugs to be addicted I mean deodorant [TS]

  maybe but like I I would that's not [TS]

  really a chemical addiction that power [TS]

  using the other hand he's huffing it [TS]

  that's what he's doing now I i did have [TS]

  a glass of diet coke [TS]

  you're right so maybe that will help a [TS]

  little bit because that's what you're [TS]

  talking about is caffeine and I get my [TS]

  caffeine free diet coke like any [TS]

  responsible human would do right [TS]

  surrounded by cancer sugar good luck [TS]

  with that it's better than having to [TS]

  choke down coffee and all right so [TS]

  anyway so yeah so I'm nothing in the [TS]

  world is worse in the food world right [TS]

  now then these than the gradual invasion [TS]

  of sucralose into everything [TS]

  why why just use real sugar or don't [TS]

  sweeten it [TS]

  sucralose is the worst in the universe [TS]

  you can always taste that horrible [TS]

  aftertaste lata two girls in it [TS]

  well so that's the thing is the horrible [TS]

  aftertaste that that regular humans like [TS]

  yourself get from diet coke i actually [TS]

  get that from regular coke like the [TS]

  regular coke lingers in my mouth days [TS]

  and diet coke with phosphoric acid just [TS]

  stop drinking soda is all so it is [TS]

  terrible i don't i drink diet coke while [TS]

  you have a candidate can at lunch [TS]

  pretty much every day well it during the [TS]

  week that is and then I'll usually have [TS]

  like a glass after dinner and that's it [TS]

  but I've no i have not yet found any [TS]

  demonstrable proof in my own body i'm [TS]

  not saying this is true for anyone else [TS]

  but in my own body i have not yet found [TS]

  demonstrable proof that caffeine and [TS]

  negatively impact my ability to sleep [TS]

  especially after you to keep me up and [TS]

  jump into its but uh but i can i can [TS]

  have a fair bit of diet coke in the [TS]

  evening right before going to sleep I'm [TS]

  fine [TS]

  that's the word why it's ahead [TS]

  so but the thing is though you are right [TS]

  that diet coke is bad but coincidentally [TS]

  i am also right that coffee is revolting [TS]

  we're both know that all the wrong I [TS]

  think there's a large body of evidence [TS]

  to suggest that I'm right on this and [TS]

  the coffee's discussing and I've got [TS]

  dried off guard i would hate to be that [TS]

  person that has to have a cup of coffee [TS]

  in the morning in order to function [TS]

  screw that you know what I do in order [TS]

  to to function in the morning i get out [TS]

  of bed i don't even shower in the [TS]

  morning shower tonight because PS shower [TS]

  in the mornings disgusting you should be [TS]

  showering before you get in bed rather [TS]

  than sleeping on three weeks worth of [TS]

  filth but anyway your ears piling on the [TS]

  unpopular opinions and keep going out [TS]

  but no it's not my fault everyone's [TS]

  wrong but are you washing your sheets [TS]

  hang on a second i'm doing some math now [TS]

  you may be slightly off on your sheet [TS]

  washing cycle night it is more often [TS]

  than once every three weeks but but but [TS]

  seriously I cannot fathom like I [TS]

  understand that I am the weirdo on this [TS]

  one all snark aside I'm the weird one [TS]

  that almost everyone i know showers when [TS]

  they wake up i'm trying to make two [TS]

  different points simultaneously number [TS]

  one I currently as it stands today have [TS]

  no morning routine in order to get out [TS]

  to get myself moving in the morning what [TS]

  the way I get myself moving in the [TS]

  morning as I open my eyes I am ready to [TS]

  go after that so so i'm looking at a at [TS]

  a little avatar view of my skype client [TS]

  that doesn't actually are is actually [TS]

  does actually reflect generally what you [TS]

  look like and your hair is really nicely [TS]

  done it was like you might have some [TS]

  product in there so does that just did [TS]

  you put it on nights in our data that's [TS]

  a hit fair criticism that's an entirely [TS]

  different issues what I meant to say i [TS]

  have my morning routine don't get me [TS]

  wrong i want my point was just that i'm [TS]

  not one of those people that needs like [TS]

  a coffee in order to be ready to handle [TS]

  the day like you can come at me right [TS]

  first thing in the morning with some [TS]

  sort of technical problem and I'm okay [TS]

  with that [TS]

  now the one thing i did not consider is [TS]

  I do need to consume something for [TS]

  breakfast it can be damn near anything i [TS]

  have a poptart can have a go i typically [TS]

  make myself a fruit smoothie whatever [TS]

  you know I would want to be the kind of [TS]

  person who couldn't fuck in the morning [TS]

  before eight something I just get out of [TS]

  bed i'm ready i'm ready to solve [TS]

  problems I I often will start work and [TS]

  programming [TS]

  for had coffee that's a thing like I [TS]

  don't often have coffee to like ten or [TS]

  eleven o'clock i seeso see I'm okay with [TS]

  that [TS]

  it's these people that typically work in [TS]

  an office that are like I don't talk to [TS]

  me having my coffee like screw that [TS]

  come on you're an adult that that's just [TS]

  them being like a pin but like you don't [TS]

  like it they weren't complaining about [TS]

  the coffee to complain about something [TS]

  else [TS]

  I agree we agree no I will say though in [TS]

  defense of your weird night showering [TS]

  habit it having traveled with you a [TS]

  bunch it actually makes it really [TS]

  convenient to travel with you because [TS]

  you're I've never waiting on the morning [TS]

  for you to get ready you're always ready [TS]

  like whenever I am because I'm more i'm [TS]

  a morning shower so of course I take [TS]

  long i also sleep as long as I possibly [TS]

  can [TS]

  I've never waiting for you ever let me [TS]

  travel that I don't know if that's [TS]

  actually true [TS]

  not that i would i would hope you don't [TS]

  ever way from the morning i'm sure [TS]

  there's some point in time where you're [TS]

  waiting on me well when you're doing [TS]

  your hair now she's actually it would be [TS]

  I don't know actually shared a hotel [TS]

  room but if we ever had two that are [TS]

  very convenient also to have you be a [TS]

  nice shower then you were not competing [TS]

  for the shower in the morning either [TS]

  that's true that's true but the whole [TS]

  point I was trying to make is like I say [TS]

  is twofold one I mean I could handle [TS]

  technical problem first thing in the [TS]

  morning i prefer to have a breakfast [TS]

  first but I don't have to win but number [TS]

  two I can't get out of my head how gross [TS]

  it is for someone to take the day's [TS]

  filth and put it into their bed every [TS]

  night every night today's Phil Monday's [TS]

  fell into the bed [TS]

  Tuesday's felt let's add tuesday on the [TS]

  Monday spills Wednesday's belt [TS]

  let's add Wednesday spill into Tuesday's [TS]

  built under Monday's filth and let's [TS]

  just rolling it 48 hours that sounds [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  and again I recognized before the entire [TS]

  internet writes me which they're about [TS]

  to do anyway I recognize that this is a [TS]

  weird thing and that i am the weird one [TS]

  here but I cannot fathom how any human [TS]

  being that values hygiene can get into [TS]

  covers that their that they're getting [TS]

  in without showering first that's [TS]

  disgusting [TS]

  I don't get it now this is where a [TS]

  couple of that sort a few things because [TS]

  you're number one in the district during [TS]

  the week with that [TS]

  so how dirty you getting during the day [TS]

  you sit in an air-conditioned office [TS]

  behind a queue behind a chair it in a [TS]

  chair behind a computer screen [TS]

  blah blah blah it's late still [TS]

  some point it's I I can only speak for [TS]

  myself but at some point at some point [TS]

  during the day I probably have at least [TS]

  a little shimmer on me of sweat of dirt [TS]

  of something that you don't winter there [TS]

  may be number two man in the south [TS]

  I'm choosing what what what battles to [TS]

  fight nevertheless I don't remember too [TS]

  this is where all sorts of people come [TS]

  out of the woodwork and say what don't [TS]

  you sweat at night sometimes you're [TS]

  absolutely right sometimes i do but at [TS]

  least leave it as the night dirt that's [TS]

  in the bed why not why did you [TS]

  contribute the date on top of the night [TS]

  dirt that's barbaric I tell you it's [TS]

  it's something I think your threat model [TS]

  for a dirty sheets is wrong i think [TS]

  about the whole model of like how how [TS]

  she's exist in one state and how [TS]

  transfer happens from you to the sheets [TS]

  putting them in a state that you don't [TS]

  like I think the whole model is wrong [TS]

  because well maybe we don't want to get [TS]

  into engine but are you sleeping naked [TS]

  because because that wouldn't you like [TS]

  to know John I'd I'm just saying like it [TS]

  seems like what your modeling here is an [TS]

  idea of how it did how how things would [TS]

  transfer from one place to another [TS]

  making one thing that was clean dirty [TS]

  right but i don't know if that idea maps [TS]

  to the reality of you sleeping in beds [TS]

  it's an alternative reality John moving [TS]

  on like Michael favorite my favorite [TS]

  thing about this conversation is all the [TS]

  new listeners we got last week thinking [TS]

  expect you know what what they're going [TS]

  to expect that this show is an etude in [TS]

  here this this document tune in live [TS]

  they'll just be the pre-recorded one and [TS]

  this will not be heavily featured at the [TS]

  start of the program [TS]

  let's hope not let's hope nothing so [TS]

  let's start with some follow-up Consumer [TS]

  Reports has recommended macbook pro so [TS]

  turns out that they have worked with [TS]

  apple in order to fix apples bugs which [TS]

  may or may not entirely be apple's fault [TS]

  i guess the bugs were anyway just matter [TS]

  point is they have retested their [TS]

  macbook pros one model got almost 19 [TS]

  hours on a charge i'm not entirely clear [TS]

  how that could be possible but that's [TS]

  what they say that because that because [TS]

  that's how their tests work like it [TS]

  they're gonna sort of thing before the [TS]

  absolute numbers don't really matter and [TS]

  test like this because there's no way [TS]

  you're actually gonna write you know [TS]

  simulate any particular user [TS]

  all you want to know is we use the same [TS]

  test all the time is this better or [TS]

  worse in the same then like the previous [TS]

  Mac or different model you want some [TS]

  kind of consistency within the numbers [TS]

  but you know it's a it's like story [TS]

  points in a sprint Casey happened i [TS]

  don't know i don't know what you're [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  so for the consumer reports thing the [TS]

  main reason i put in there was just that [TS]

  you have to follow up on like a guess [TS]

  what like we said that they probably [TS]

  last time they retested everything's [TS]

  fine blah blah but thinking it from it [TS]

  from the perspective of someone who used [TS]

  to write for a publication that did [TS]

  product reviews do product reviews [TS]

  myself as as like an institution for [TS]

  doing reviews as a publication as a [TS]

  venue is a place where people get [TS]

  information [TS]

  this is not a good outcome because now [TS]

  anyone who reads Consumer Reports has to [TS]

  think [TS]

  Consumer Reports didn't recommended but [TS]

  is this the real story or do we have to [TS]

  wait two weeks trying to figure out what [TS]

  the real story wasn't to tell us where [TS]

  they should get it not like it [TS]

  their job is to tell us whether this [TS]

  laptop is worth buying or it should be [TS]

  avoided and i'm going to say although [TS]

  some people may differ that the product [TS]

  within without this bug like whether you [TS]

  have the beta version to fix this bug [TS]

  fix or whether you don't have the beta [TS]

  version is not that different markers [TS]

  using it presumably without this beta [TS]

  fix and it is it is a satisfactory [TS]

  product right with the beta fix maybe [TS]

  it'll be a little better [TS]

  stop about you you talked about the [TS]

  whole last time about how you know it's [TS]

  not as bad as you thought it would be so [TS]

  like I'm not saying I don't know just [TS]

  every week I waffle on on whether I'll [TS]

  whether I like the new one or whether i [TS]

  want to switch back to the old one [TS]

  because of the battery life or disable [TS]

  oh yeah that really so i can actually do [TS]

  my own tests and and the battery life is [TS]

  not good but it's ok and the old one was [TS]

  similar but was also not good but ok but [TS]

  God the keyboard is so bad [TS]

  let's say maybe they can't even [TS]

  recommend the product market remind me [TS]

  have you tried the magic keyboard we've [TS]

  been through this so many times I [TS]

  honestly don't recall now for it because [TS]

  I'm for desktops I got using gamma [TS]

  keyboard like I I yeah I use desktops [TS]

  too heavily and I have minor RSI [TS]

  problems if i use regular keyboards and [TS]

  so to avoid those and we would become a [TS]

  major our psyche problems i use [TS]

  ergonomic keyboards and not totally i [TS]

  was just curious I didn't know if you'd [TS]

  like tried one for more than 10 seconds [TS]

  in a store because I find that I i I've [TS]

  talked long to anyone who'll listen how [TS]

  about how much i love the magic keyboard [TS]

  and i've only used the new macbook pro [TS]

  keyboard for but flash so I'm you and it [TS]

  was awhile ago this is all I memory and [TS]

  it was a very brief time that I used it [TS]

  but I feel like the frustrating thing [TS]

  for me about the new macbook pro [TS]

  keyboard was that it was like eighty [TS]

  percent of perfection because i'm not [TS]

  saying you agree i'm just saying to me [TS]

  because it was so similar to the magic [TS]

  keyboard but i think the throw was a [TS]

  little bit smaller in that difference [TS]

  was enough to just drive me batty and [TS]

  i'm sure i would get used to it over [TS]

  time but man was it annoying because i [TS]

  feel like it was so close [TS]

  you're right there you almost had it and [TS]

  they didn't quite get there and the [TS]

  thing that's scary to me is that I [TS]

  suspect whenever a magic keyboard to [TS]

  happens i bet you anything they're going [TS]

  to use that keyboard with the shorter [TS]

  throw [TS]

  and I'm going to be very sad and I'm [TS]

  gonna be the I'm gonna be Gruber in [TS]

  buying a thousand four original magic [TS]

  keyboards to keep around until kingdom [TS]

  come [TS]

  because this is my favorite keyboard [TS]

  I've ever used well makes first of all I [TS]

  actually have done that myself I [TS]

  microsoft upgraded the the sculpt [TS]

  ergonomic keyboard that i have used for [TS]

  a few years now as my main one they [TS]

  quote upgraded that to the new surface [TS]

  or [TS]

  comic keyboard and I bought one and [TS]

  actually return it because the surface [TS]

  organic keyboard has his bluetooth [TS]

  instead of its own customized thing but [TS]

  it has expecially bluetooth [TS]

  implementation details i guess that are [TS]

  incredibly incompatible with Max and [TS]

  I've never had a pc keyboard that was [TS]

  incompatible with a mac before the [TS]

  microsoft sculpt ergonomic is one of [TS]

  these I mean the microsoft surface [TS]

  around excuse me and and they're the two [TS]

  main problems if you're looking at this [TS]

  a lot of people asking us to main [TS]

  problem number one you can't remap [TS]

  option and command to be like on windows [TS]

  and all properly the system panel that [TS]

  you do it in for every other pc keyboard [TS]

  the changes doesn't apply it doesn't [TS]

  work like you can change it there but [TS]

  the the keys still don't change their [TS]

  functions and the second problem which [TS]

  is even more fatal than that is that [TS]

  it's Bluetooth implementation basically [TS]

  it falls asleep after a while and when [TS]

  you wake it up by pushing keys again the [TS]

  first couple keys you push don't get [TS]

  recognized [TS]

  so it's really a pain to use in practice [TS]

  so it is effectively incompatible with [TS]

  the mac first time I've ever had a pc [TS]

  keyboard for this before that that's [TS]

  been a problem and so I had to return it [TS]

  and also the ergonomics got worse and i [TS]

  got a year so there you go the key [TS]

  switches feeling better but it is way [TS]

  too wide because it added the the 10 key [TS]

  numpad area back on and it's low and [TS]

  flat does not have a riser in front so [TS]

  the ergonomics are worse and whatever [TS]

  the look they're going for its like gray [TS]

  it's like the lining of cubicle walls [TS]

  like the kind of like gray carpet [TS]

  material you know that's it's like they [TS]

  made a keyboard of that so big miss on [TS]

  that and so it's so because the sculpt [TS]

  ergonomic keyboard that I like so much [TS]

  is now officially discontinued I I [TS]

  stockpiled three of them right now [TS]

  because you can still get them in most [TS]

  places for like I'm around 60 70 bucks [TS]

  so I stopped by a few with the price of [TS]

  a figure like that's how I burn through [TS]

  three of these which should be probably [TS]

  five years or so six years or so then I [TS]

  should probably go find something else [TS]

  by them and is that one bluetooth the [TS]

  the old one that you're stockpiling or [TS]

  is that wired know it's it's own custom [TS]

  RF dongle [TS]

  most likely a nice and millions and has [TS]

  a little thing and it's not very good [TS]

  like the the sculpt the sculpt wireless [TS]

  that i've been using for years now the [TS]

  wireless thing is pretty flaky that's [TS]

  usually the way these keyboards [TS]

  eventually die the reason i replace them [TS]

  is usually at the wireless things [TS]

  becomes too unreliable and you can [TS]

  change batteries and you can resync it [TS]

  you can move it around eventually those [TS]

  things just don't help anymore or it [TS]

  still starts failing and and when it's [TS]

  working properly it never fails it's [TS]

  solid so whatever it is that kills these [TS]

  keyboards after a maybe two years of use [TS]

  that's that is what ultimately ends [TS]

  these for me and for other people so [TS]

  what are we trying to talk about [TS]

  consumer reportsconsumerreports who [TS]

  cares there i mean Consumer Reports [TS]

  still going to keep doing the same BS [TS]

  they do all the time going to keep doing [TS]

  it every time there's a new apple [TS]

  products going to get attention with [TS]

  some crazy headline oftentimes it will [TS]

  be about a real problem sometimes it [TS]

  won't be but usually when it is a real [TS]

  problem they will be overblowing it like [TS]

  Marcus drinking beer tonight it [TS]

  I've had like that my writing haha i've [TS]

  had literally like one inch of beer is [TS]

  still in the neck and your hammer and [TS]

  it's and it's a four percent beer [TS]

  there's there's no amount that I'm [TS]

  saying have just you mentioned last time [TS]

  I said I could tell when you're drinking [TS]

  and you said oh yeah well next time tell [TS]

  me and so I just did this is like the [TS]

  lightest beer I've ever seen and I drink [TS]

  all that none of it i do not i'm not a [TS]

  tributing any kind of cause I'm just [TS]

  saying I'm just saying [TS]

  alright so also in this in this last [TS]

  week I haven't had a chance to read this [TS]

  so I'm gonna I'm gonna defer to you John [TS]

  on this but there's a blog post on the [TS]

  WebKit blog introducing riptide WebKit [TS]

  retreating wavefront concurrent garbage [TS]

  collector that sounds fancy [TS]

  so what's this all about John well on [TS]

  the last program where we talked to [TS]

  chris lattner towards the end we talk [TS]

  about a park vs garbage collection and [TS]

  Christmas through this whole big thing [TS]

  about the the trade-offs and the [TS]

  different behaviors and that might have [TS]

  been over a lot of people's heads [TS]

  because it was lots of jargon there [TS]

  this is another one of WebKit often does [TS]

  these things too [TS]

  the web good developers post the thing [TS]

  that talks about some technical [TS]

  underpinnings of some feature of the [TS]

  browser or the engine usually and this [TS]

  one describes their new garbage [TS]

  collector for JavaScript kind of like a [TS]

  the stuff that chris said you can't read [TS]

  this starting from zero and understand [TS]

  every part of it but they do go through [TS]

  and explain a lot of it and I think if [TS]

  you just Google some stuff and find some [TS]

  links you can you know start [TS]

  understanding it but I think it's a good [TS]

  example of a lot of things that Chris [TS]

  alluded to like that the the attributes [TS]

  of a garbage collector that are very [TS]

  similar to the attributes of Arc and [TS]

  that there are there's additional [TS]

  bookkeeping and stuff that has to be [TS]

  done in line as part of the normal [TS]

  operation because this is a slam against [TS]

  arc is a very frequently that well [TS]

  you've got all these reference counts [TS]

  you know increment and decrement all of [TS]

  your code you didn't write those things [TS]

  but I get added anyway and it's just [TS]

  like overhead and so even if you don't [TS]

  understand all the weird nuances of this [TS]

  very very long article i think it is [TS]

  written in a very clear way whoever [TS]

  wrote this I think that a good job you [TS]

  have to assume some foundational [TS]

  knowledge and maybe more of things could [TS]

  be links because you know and love to [TS]

  make things links and do you think that [TS]

  I had no idea [TS]

  yeah but anyway you can just the board [TS]

  you don't understand just you know type [TS]

  into google search box to look at the [TS]

  wiki page or something and you are about [TS]

  it so i would encourage anybody whose [TS]

  interest was piqued by that discussion [TS]

  on last week's episode to read maybe [TS]

  over a couple nights this very long post [TS]

  about web kids garbage collector because [TS]

  i think it is really well done and you [TS]

  learn a lot and you will also even if [TS]

  you don't learn that much come to a gut [TS]

  level understanding of exactly how much [TS]

  of a pain in the butt is to make [TS]

  JavaScript go fast and how much time and [TS]

  effort and money is being put in doing [TS]

  that indeed this was by Philip is low [TS]

  just FYI i miss the beach way front [TS]

  that's all you look riptide wave friends [TS]

  God summertime if you read the whole [TS]

  thing and understand a little bit of it [TS]

  the title will make sense by the end [TS]

  retreating way from concurrent garbage [TS]

  collector all those words mean something [TS]

  and are explained at length [TS]

  article we go figure it's funny you know [TS]

  I remember you being the heav'nly [TS]

  opposed to the beach and I was only [TS]

  mildly less supposed to it now the two [TS]

  of us are both converted who knew [TS]

  turns out i'm opposed to your [TS]

  pronunciation of that word to which word [TS]

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  Casper understands the importance of [TS]

  truly sleeping on a mattress before you [TS]

  commit especially continue to be [TS]

  spending a third of your life on it [TS]

  so a hundred Knights you can decide at [TS]

  the end you know it's not for me and [TS]

  they'll send someone to your house to [TS]

  pick it up [TS]

  that's how to make it truly easy and [TS]

  risk-free get yours today and try 419 [TS]

  your own home with free delivery and [TS]

  free returns with home pick up [TS]

  completely risk-free go to Casper calm / [TS]

  ATP and use code ATP for fifty dollars [TS]

  towards your mattress thanks to cast for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  alright so John had a big day yesterday [TS]

  wasn't i believe when when the 10.3 beta [TS]

  was released and John I have it on good [TS]

  authority that you did a little happy [TS]

  dance at your cubicle when you saw this [TS]

  news come out [TS]

  is that true please do not tonight i do [TS]

  not do a happy dance my happy dance when [TS]

  announcing the existence of the file [TS]

  system that's my happy dance like you [TS]

  know we had a bell [TS]

  we had a happy dance we had all sorts of [TS]

  things that time is past time [TS]

  oh I will say this though so that we're [TS]

  talking about is the announcement that [TS]

  the announcement / lake or whatever that [TS]

  iOS 10.3 and the beta builds the [TS]

  developers can get now will apparently [TS]

  convert your iOS device from hfs+ to a [TS]

  PFS upon upgrade and that's mostly [TS]

  notable because a it is a partial [TS]

  fulfillment of the the goal Apple set [TS]

  forth for itself at WC last year they [TS]

  said you know we want to convert all of [TS]

  our platforms that means like iOS and [TS]

  mac OS I guess watch us to me [TS]

  basically all of the platforms to be on [TS]

  a PFS in 2017 2017 is the entire year [TS]

  that inside which part of the year [TS]

  whatever but here we are in january and [TS]

  there's already a beta of iOS 10.3 that [TS]

  commerce a PFS so it's not as if they're [TS]

  wait until you know October whatever [TS]

  when the successor to see air comes out [TS]

  for for the mac or you know whatever [TS]

  these things are going to be released [TS]

  they seem to be ahead of the game ahead [TS]

  of schedule and I was worried last year [TS]

  that other really going to be able to [TS]

  roll over their entire product line with [TS]

  a new file system that they just [TS]

  announced that you know next year [TS]

  sometime but if they're apparently doing [TS]

  well they seem confident people who have [TS]

  upgraded I think Marco is one have not [TS]

  seen all their data disappear in a puff [TS]

  of smoke so things are looking good so [TS]

  far right so my upgrade been totally [TS]

  fine i didn't realize [TS]

  so I hear it was new version new beta of [TS]

  iOS comes out of course i installed on [TS]

  my main phone immediately [TS]

  look our zeros it does not learn from [TS]

  iOS 5 you and I did this together on is [TS]

  there was a 5-4 it was survived yet what [TS]

  we learn together groups still gives me [TS]

  crap about that yeah maybe you should [TS]

  give you and me crap because you're both [TS]

  idiots and here it is [TS]

  well now to your defenses was a point [TS]

  release right and the point releases are [TS]

  usually completely harmless that they [TS]

  are almost never a problem for almost [TS]

  anybody and so you know that that would [TS]

  that's why I figured let me do this [TS]

  there's some new API need to test [TS]

  against women let me try some stuff and [TS]

  make sure everything works and [TS]

  everything so [TS]

  ok then after we i installed it like by [TS]

  and like an hour later I learned that [TS]

  oh I'm now using a PFS like it was it [TS]

  was not not even a thing like I all I [TS]

  noticed was that the install took maybe [TS]

  15 minutes longer than I thought it [TS]

  would [TS]

  it was a little slow but otherwise like [TS]

  my phone boot up everything's fine [TS]

  everything's totally fine i had zero [TS]

  issues so far and then a couple hours [TS]

  later when chatting with john i learned [TS]

  that i'm using a PFS before John funny [TS]

  that is not really sure because i said i [TS]

  used against the Sierra Deb builds that [TS]

  doesn't like not in your main machine [TS]

  that doesn't count if it's not like was [TS]

  on my machine [TS]

  it was as main machine is it could be [TS]

  like I did everything that you could do [TS]

  with a PFS on my machine you can't boot [TS]

  off of it with Mac os10 now you you [TS]

  cannot put off it but i was still using [TS]

  it now well then you normally yeah [TS]

  doesn't count [TS]

  i'm using a PFS in production on my [TS]

  machine before John and that I'm I'm [TS]

  think I'm done for the year it's on your [TS]

  phone your main machine [TS]

  come on that your mac user computer use [TS]

  most often anyway based on based on [TS]

  nothing but Marcos a first-hand [TS]

  experience of having upgraded and the [TS]

  vague wording in Apple's release notes [TS]

  that have been created out by various [TS]

  people this is what we're talking about [TS]

  on past shows about in place conversion [TS]

  and how the design of a PFS makes that [TS]

  not as crazy as you might think it [TS]

  sounds so you may be thinking oh how is [TS]

  it going to do [TS]

  how's it going to upgrade my file system [TS]

  do i have to have like fifty percent of [TS]

  my storage free so we can write all day [TS]

  to a new location and do this [TS]

  thing or is it going like back it all up [TS]

  to the cloud or make me do an itunes [TS]

  backup and restore it [TS]

  how is it going to how's it going to do [TS]

  this about destroying my data and as we [TS]

  discussed last time that the strategy is [TS]

  that you leave all the data exactly [TS]

  where it is you write a new set of [TS]

  metadata structure somewhere in the [TS]

  metadata is just like what tells you [TS]

  information about the data where is it [TS]

  how much of it is there like the [TS]

  different names of the files the dates [TS]

  all that crap right that somewhere and [TS]

  that doesn't take up that much room like [TS]

  you need a little you need a reasonable [TS]

  probably fixed size trunk of metadata [TS]

  more or less to plus or minus extended [TS]

  attributes for each file and the bigger [TS]

  files you have the more efficient this [TS]

  is so if you have tons and tons of [TS]

  relatively large files like music videos [TS]

  it's even it's even bigger win so you [TS]

  don't probably need that much free space [TS]

  you need some free space for all iOS [TS]

  operating as some researchers believe [TS]

  that much they write all the metadata [TS]

  they're pointing to the data exactly [TS]

  where it exists and that only the very [TS]

  very end after riding all the metadata [TS]

  they do a very fast very quick operation [TS]

  that says and big swapper Rooney rewrite [TS]

  the headers and the volume to say well [TS]

  actually now this is an aps a PFS volume [TS]

  and the metadata is over here and that [TS]

  little tiny critical section should only [TS]

  take like fractions of a second right [TS]

  that is the only time where you could [TS]

  potentially have a problem with it [TS]

  failed in the middle but even then they [TS]

  could use journaling and everything to [TS]

  defend against that you don't have to [TS]

  worry about anymore than you normally [TS]

  would you know somehow running out of [TS]

  battery during your upgrade or I don't [TS]

  even know what could happen because i [TS]

  like you can accidentally unplug the [TS]

  phone like they do want to be plugged in [TS]

  when they're being upgraded but it's not [TS]

  like you're gonna have a power cut [TS]

  unless there's some sort of hardware [TS]

  problem you really drain your battery so [TS]

  the moral of story is yes upgrading in [TS]

  place is a real thing it should go fine [TS]

  and it is actually fairly safe assuming [TS]

  everything goes ok so I'm not afraid of [TS]

  doing is upgrade i'm not going to the [TS]

  beta like I'm not going to hurry but [TS]

  when 10.3 comes out i expect it to be [TS]

  fairly uneventful barring any [TS]

  catastrophic box because once you're [TS]

  running a PFS then if there's a bug in a [TS]

  PFS then you're going to be so [TS]

  right but the conversion process itself [TS]

  seems like it's okay what are you more [TS]

  afraid of in practice bugs and a PFS or [TS]

  the regular behavior of HFS plus yeah [TS]

  that's not the only thing that bothered [TS]

  me a little bit about the conversion I [TS]

  was thinking about it more now that it's [TS]

  a real thing because it the conversion [TS]

  is a like what i would like to do is run [TS]

  essentially at fsck or you know the the [TS]

  repair thing to like to validate all the [TS]

  hrs + metadata to make sure that it's [TS]

  not incorrect in various ways and all [TS]

  the ways that if you were to run disk [TS]

  utility is right now it would find a [TS]

  bunch of crap wrong because they profess [TS]

  is weird and buggy and sometimes doesn't [TS]

  keep track things the right way and it [TS]

  will find stuff that can tell us wrong [TS]

  by exhaustively going over the data and [TS]

  metadata and comparing them in doing so [TS]

  and so forth [TS]

  I would like you to do that before it [TS]

  dutifully various rights the new [TS]

  metadata to a new location and based on [TS]

  your 15-minute time i'm not sure that [TS]

  does i don't i don't know how long it [TS]

  would take to like to essentially fsck [TS]

  hfs+ on a 64 gig iOS device maybe it's [TS]

  faster than I think because the disk so [TS]

  much smaller than you know like a [TS]

  terabyte on a mac or whatever so I'm not [TS]

  sure it's if it is doing that I would [TS]

  feel more comfortable if before it [TS]

  decided to make a copy made sure the [TS]

  thing that it's copying is right and [TS]

  this gets back to what you're saying [TS]

  what are you afraid of bugs and a PFS or [TS]

  bugs and hfs+ i'm still probably more [TS]

  play afraid of bugs and a PFS because [TS]

  bottom line it takes a long time for [TS]

  file system to really bug free but at [TS]

  the moment of conversion I am definitely [TS]

  more worried about my existing hfs+ [TS]

  disks and all my iOS devices having the [TS]

  normal residue of problematic metadata [TS]

  that seems to accumulate in all hfs+ [TS]

  volumes [TS]

  I'm more worried about that at that [TS]

  point after conversion i have to say i [TS]

  have to give the nod hfs+ for you know [TS]

  for a brand new file systems that have [TS]

  never been deployed an apple devices if [TS]

  something is gonna go wrong it's going [TS]

  to happen like that first big [TS]

  deployments you know the address plus [TS]

  for all those little crappy bugs i [TS]

  really don't expect a massive data [TS]

  destroying things to suddenly pop up [TS]

  Davis plus is going to be what it is and [TS]

  it has been for a long [TS]

  time and it's not good not good by a [TS]

  long stretch but presumably like I can't [TS]

  remember the last time a at my camera is [TS]

  that responses even updated but at all [TS]

  the things they've done to it [TS]

  none of them have caused any sort of [TS]

  catastrophic problems at a BF s plus [TS]

  that a BFS cock i cannot say these names [TS]

  yeah anyway i'm i'm i'm gonna upgrade [TS]

  everything i'm just going to go for it i [TS]

  have a lot of backups you should have a [TS]

  lot of backups to it's just all dive in [TS]

  and see how it goes when it's part of [TS]

  like you know on one hand it is awfully [TS]

  bold for Apple to deploy their brand new [TS]

  file system on their most popular device [TS]

  like you know it's to make it part an [TS]

  automatic not even like an opt-in but an [TS]

  automatic part of seemingly all iOS 10.3 [TS]

  install you know we'll see if the chips [TS]

  that way but it looks like that's the [TS]

  plan then that means all the iphones are [TS]

  going to get this and they're all gonna [TS]

  be converted when they reboot and that's [TS]

  it right and that's a pretty bold move [TS]

  on the other hand iOS is you know even [TS]

  though it has a much larger install base [TS]

  in many ways it's lower risk because the [TS]

  nature of phones is that there are these [TS]

  kind of closed systems you have like [TS]

  very limited numbers of configurations [TS]

  you don't have like weirdo like like on [TS]

  a Mac you have all these different like [TS]

  you know different discs and partition [TS]

  schemes and all sorts of apps that could [TS]

  be trying to mess with them or things [TS]

  like that is all very much it's all very [TS]

  controlled and there's fewer [TS]

  combinations of things four [TS]

  configurations and also the nature of [TS]

  phones is that people lose break and [TS]

  replace them often and so they're [TS]

  designed in software and services to [TS]

  have everything in the cloud and [TS]

  everything backed up most of the time [TS]

  and I mean that isn't in practice always [TS]

  the case but that's the case way more [TS]

  often on phones and it is on max so if [TS]

  something does go cash probably wrong [TS]

  for some percentage of users on the [TS]

  phone it is probably less destructive [TS]

  than if it happened on Mac OS yeah by [TS]

  mostly her that well I mean the other [TS]

  obvious reason why they would do is [TS]

  versus because it's it's more important [TS]

  and that's wherever it goes and the [TS]

  Maccabee have fun like oh yeah i was [TS]

  looking north meck but uh but yeah at [TS]

  phones are so much more of a control [TS]

  system and also all the weird crap about [TS]

  a PFS which is mostly [TS]

  good you know like that the space [TS]

  sharing stuff and you know the the all [TS]

  the things that make it behave [TS]

  differently than you might expect are [TS]

  not visible at all and iOS because iOS [TS]

  doesn't have the problem of 10 different [TS]

  ways that you can see free space and and [TS]

  users looking at it like that there are [TS]

  already the way you see free space and [TS]

  iOS is already an illusion you go to you [TS]

  know that the preferences in general and [TS]

  usage and all that stuff like those [TS]

  numbers have only a vague connection to [TS]

  space on disk because they're totally [TS]

  hiding all classes of things that don't [TS]

  count towards your space and trying to [TS]

  sum up space and attributed to [TS]

  applications like it's already an [TS]

  illusion [TS]

  so there's no weirdness there whereas on [TS]

  the mac if you do you know it did you [TS]

  use the power of the file system and a [TS]

  disk utilities actually updated to use [TS]

  it [TS]

  people can make arrangements to start to [TS]

  make far less sense where you can have a [TS]

  single a PFS container with three [TS]

  volumes on it and then how to draw the [TS]

  free space on them and it trying to [TS]

  figure out when you make an instant copy [TS]

  does that count as a space being taken [TS]

  out now you have 2 1 gigabyte files [TS]

  before you had one but the free space [TS]

  didn't change even though you don't have [TS]

  any shared volumes on the containers and [TS]

  all that goes away on iOS and also iOS [TS]

  is case sensitive so that gets rid of [TS]

  all of whatever you're going to deal [TS]

  with for you know case holding stuff I [TS]

  did file one radar against a PFS back in [TS]

  the early days about the whole character [TS]

  encoding handling and the fact that you [TS]

  can have two files with the apparently [TS]

  the same name on the mac on a PFS but [TS]

  you can't do that in hfs+ the age of us [TS]

  plus does this normalization stuff to [TS]

  try to make those them too weird [TS]

  normalization but anyway I don't know [TS]

  the state of that radar I don't think [TS]

  it's the state of the radars change may [TS]

  be as close as a dupe [TS]

  I don't remember it went into the black [TS]

  hole I haven't heard anything about it [TS]

  but for max most the vast majority which [TS]

  have case-insensitive filesystems [TS]

  they're gonna have to make decisions [TS]

  about that and I don't know what [TS]

  decisions they made so if the Mac gets [TS]

  the ability to boot from a PFS before [TS]

  the octoberish release of whatever [TS]

  follows mac OS Sierra i will be [TS]

  surprised but on the other hand it's [TS]

  January and already doing iOS maybe it [TS]

  will come to the max [TS]

  earlier but coming to the mac is [TS]

  obviously the the change that I find [TS]

  more interesting because I'm into the [TS]

  mac and because you can actually see the [TS]

  file system and i think it is actually [TS]

  the more difficult one been doing iOS [TS]

  that's interesting never thought of it [TS]

  that way [TS]

  any other thoughts about iOS 10-3 that [TS]

  that our general in art spelled out in [TS]

  the rest of our document now I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  mark are you using it wasn't like [TS]

  anything exciting in there [TS]

  I know but heavy like as a user I don't [TS]

  even really notice anything honestly [TS]

  that's a good sign [TS]

  sounds like it's stable I mean I've had [TS]

  zero problems like nothing that I that [TS]

  you typically associated with a beta one [TS]

  of the major point release really you [TS]

  know majorly it's like an iOS 11 like [TS]

  it's nothing like a beta 1 like of that [TS]

  level it is it if I didn't know [TS]

  academically that was running a beta i [TS]

  would not realize i was running a beta [TS]

  that sounds like a pretty clear with me [TS]

  so far anyway [TS]

  the other thing on file system being [TS]

  10.3 like the fact that this is a point [TS]

  release and marketing without you don't [TS]

  really notice that much of a difference [TS]

  a PFS tech wise has capabilities that [TS]

  could be leveraged in iOS 11 or whatever [TS]

  the next major version is to provide [TS]

  headlining style features so for example [TS]

  snapshots the ability to preserve the [TS]

  state of the entire file system [TS]

  inconsistent state could be used [TS]

  I don't know if Apple do this you know [TS]

  it's a political issue more than [TS]

  anything to roll your phone back to a [TS]

  known good state in a reliable way [TS]

  something that you can't really do now [TS]

  all you have to do is restore from [TS]

  backup or restore from iCloud and we [TS]

  know how annoying that is to do but [TS]

  imagine it before the the iOS 11.12 11.2 [TS]

  upgrade it would just routinely snapshot [TS]

  everything beforehand and if you didn't [TS]

  like the upgrade at any point you could [TS]

  switch back to the state it was like the [TS]

  day before whatever there's no chance of [TS]

  that I know whether but tech by tech [TS]

  wise that is that is possible right and [TS]

  i think what's more likely to be used is [TS]

  maybe a recovery thing where like if an [TS]

  upgrade fails for some time for some [TS]

  reason there be some mechanism to to [TS]

  have it kind of automatically roll [TS]

  itself back you know that's that's more [TS]

  likely i think [TS]

  then I don't like the new icons I'm [TS]

  gonna go back like Apple does not enable [TS]

  that really at all [TS]

  I mean are you could do it on a like [TS]

  uh-uh I don't get any level they wanted [TS]

  they could do a per-application level to [TS]

  go back to an old version of application [TS]

  they can do time machine type of [TS]

  features inside applications to find old [TS]

  versions of Android you can already do [TS]

  this stuff in various ways above the [TS]

  level of the file system but the fact [TS]

  that you get this sort of for free out [TS]

  of the filesystem and it's very [TS]

  efficient and fast and presumably have [TS]

  api's those are the types of things that [TS]

  you've got a PFS now but you don't have [TS]

  probably almost any of the features that [TS]

  could be built on those are major OS [TS]

  features they could be for a few naughty [TS]

  maybe not even 11 maybe I was 12 or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  same thing with on the mac if and when [TS]

  we can boot maybe that's yeah that's all [TS]

  well and good but there are many years [TS]

  Pratap presumably of features that are [TS]

  built us like who knows the time machine [TS]

  will even be updated to support a PFS in [TS]

  the next version of mac OS maybe want to [TS]

  wait for the version after that it's not [TS]

  it's non-trivial to take advantage of [TS]

  all these features and you know i'm i'm [TS]

  in no hurry it's like step one get the [TS]

  file system with these features and make [TS]

  it solid [TS]

  step 2 3 4 and 5 then slowly roll out [TS]

  the features that what consumers don't [TS]

  care that it's enabled by the new file [TS]

  system that only care about the features [TS]

  but many things will be enabled by these [TS]

  features so I look forward to them even [TS]

  though 10.3 home new file system was the [TS]

  big deal no big deal should come later [TS]

  response to this week by indochino go to [TS]

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  than generic off-the-rack suits from the [TS]

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  in a made-to-measure suit indochino is [TS]

  one of the largest made-to-measure [TS]

  menswear brands they give you high [TS]

  quality suits that are made your exact [TS]

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  what shape you are believing I'm a [TS]

  pretty bumpy shape and it fits me great [TS]

  now you also get to customize your suit [TS]

  just the way you want it [TS]

  so I've had mine with the school like [TS]

  dot fabric on the lining and so given [TS]

  the kind of personality one on the [TS]

  inside and I had the inscription say ATP [TS]

  made me wear a suit as a little cheeky [TS]

  reference that makes me smile every time [TS]

  I see it [TS]

  go to energy and accommodate set this up [TS]

  you pick from hundreds of fabrics you [TS]

  can choose your customizations lapels [TS]

  please jacket linings funny sayings that [TS]

  you want on the inside whatever it is [TS]

  and the you submit the measurements for [TS]

  your body and they have these great [TS]

  videos to show you how to do it that you [TS]

  place the order and you wait for it to [TS]

  arrive in just four weeks or less [TS]

  check it out today go to indochino [TS]

  dot-com and you can get any premium [TS]

  indochino suit for just 389 when [TS]

  entering code ATP at checkout that's [TS]

  fifty percent off the regular price for [TS]

  a made-to-measure premium suit plus [TS]

  shipping is free once again go to [TS]

  indochino dot-com and use code ATP to [TS]

  get any premium suit for just 389 [TS]

  made-to-measure thanks a lot for [TS]

  indochino for sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah we have finally gotten our wish [TS]

  and by our i mean mostly Marco and you [TS]

  can respond to appstore reviews now [TS]

  which is really exciting I think [TS]

  developers been talking about this for [TS]

  forever and a day I saw a link flyby to [TS]

  chalks blog i don't have it handy i'll [TS]

  see if i can pick it up for the show [TS]

  notes but I think it's like 2009 or [TS]

  something like that saying oh we should [TS]

  really be able to respond to reviews in [TS]

  the app store [TS]

  android has been able to do this for a [TS]

  long time and now it's finally a thing [TS]

  and that's something to be excited about [TS]

  it it seems pretty clear to me that Phil [TS]

  Schiller is making moves so Marco how do [TS]

  you feel [TS]

  it's kind of amazing as an iOS to and [TS]

  said some of this 11 filled first [TS]

  started doing things like last last [TS]

  spring and summer but it's just kind of [TS]

  amazing as an iOS developer to have [TS]

  things changing in the app store like [TS]

  getting better at all because for here [TS]

  we the app store is 18 years old eight [TS]

  and a half of that something like and [TS]

  during that time during like the first [TS]

  1807 here to visit almost nothing [TS]

  changed almost nothing improved there [TS]

  were a few minor things here but [TS]

  exceedingly minor things something even [TS]

  got worse with it and so to have it be [TS]

  worked on [TS]

  and to have positive changes or any [TS]

  changes is a new feeling for iOS [TS]

  developers and overall since phil has [TS]

  taken over i think the changes have been [TS]

  overall quite good [TS]

  very few things have been like a major [TS]

  miss or majorly harmful even search ads [TS]

  where they were very controversial and I [TS]

  think that's with good reason [TS]

  you know I I now spend more on search [TS]

  ads than I do on my servers and I don't [TS]

  love that [TS]

  oh I didn't know that yeah I i was its [TS]

  accounting time with taxes and [TS]

  everything it so I'm looking back and [TS]

  you know doing doing all the adding up [TS]

  everything and I now spend a good amount [TS]

  of money on search ads every week and I [TS]

  have a graph sorry I mean this is a [TS]

  diversion this is not the main topic [TS]

  tonight I guess it could be if you want [TS]

  to but anyway and you know basically I'm [TS]

  now paying for certain part of my user [TS]

  base and it isn't that big of a portion [TS]

  of my user base that the overall search [TS]

  ad traffic has been lower than I [TS]

  expected and I don't think it's cuz i'm [TS]

  losing auctions I think it was not being [TS]

  shown or there aren't that many searches [TS]

  for the things i'm betting on but the [TS]

  the search ad system is possibly a net [TS]

  improvement but it's something it's [TS]

  something big and and your customers [TS]

  that now i'm getting and and the way I'm [TS]

  the way I have things split out and [TS]

  being measured it is apparent to me that [TS]

  most of the customers are getting by a [TS]

  search ads are not coming for people who [TS]

  are looking for overcast [TS]

  they're coming people who are looking [TS]

  for like podcast or some things like [TS]

  that like you know more generic terms [TS]

  competitor names things like that [TS]

  because i have my overcast bids i have [TS]

  on a separate campaign so i can tell [TS]

  like and I spend a lot of money just get [TS]

  people i was going anyway which you know [TS]

  I don't want that number to be very high [TS]

  although I don't really want anybody [TS]

  else happening me either but you know if [TS]

  that number was very high then I'm just [TS]

  paying for people who tapped result [TS]

  number one central number two in the [TS]

  search and that's no good but the number [TS]

  isn't very high that's not it that's not [TS]

  a massive percentage of them spending [TS]

  most our spending is on generic search [TS]

  terms so the system is kind of working [TS]

  as respected as designed [TS]

  I don't love that i'm taking a portion [TS]

  of what Apple's give me every month just [TS]

  giving it right back to them had like [TS]

  they're already there already taken [TS]

  30-percent like you know is that i don't [TS]

  i don't see it doesn't feel good to be [TS]

  paying them back all this money but uh [TS]

  but overall the search ads have been ok [TS]

  I said they're not bringing in a large [TS]

  percentage of new users off top my head [TS]

  I actually know the number but i thought [TS]

  my head I think it's probably like ten [TS]

  percent or less of new users are coming [TS]

  through search ads but but it's you know [TS]

  it's in that ballpark at least but these [TS]

  are people i wouldn't have gotten [TS]

  otherwise pretty clearly from you can [TS]

  tell from the search terms and from how [TS]

  it when i go to store how I rank on [TS]

  those search terms that store search is [TS]

  terrible so like you know you search for [TS]

  podcast like you know five the of the [TS]

  first 10 apps like alarm clock [TS]

  absolutely it's tough totally unrelated [TS]

  literally like it said that the search [TS]

  is still just as awful as those been but [TS]

  but to have search ads there i am [TS]

  getting customers would have gotten [TS]

  before so that's that's overall positive [TS]

  even though i'm paying for them and I'm [TS]

  paying a little more than i would like [TS]

  but it's still within the realm of [TS]

  reasonable I think so anyway that aside [TS]

  it is really nice going back to the [TS]

  original question it is really nice to [TS]

  have changes happening in the app store [TS]

  that most of which are good and I i'm [TS]

  also using subscriptions now using the [TS]

  app purchase descriptions next [TS]

  September's my start getting my 85% [TS]

  people renewing that's gonna be a great [TS]

  day because i'm going to just get a [TS]

  raise for no reason [TS]

  that's awesome so you know everybody let [TS]

  your solutions- please but that's but [TS]

  otherwise yeah so anyway so for this [TS]

  specific change of responding to reviews [TS]

  and I guess maybe we'll get later to to [TS]

  the app review prompting mechanism [TS]

  change [TS]

  I don't know what we talked about that [TS]

  on this show if not we talk about this [TS]

  week's under-the-radar plug plug so [TS]

  responding to reviews so as let me let [TS]

  me begin by asking you guys at appstore [TS]

  users do you read a lot of the reviews [TS]

  know so basically if developers start [TS]

  respond to reviews really will you [TS]

  really see that I do read reviews for [TS]

  apps that i have not liked [TS]

  I have no idea about the whole domain [TS]

  like I'm looking for and I was looking [TS]

  for application recently for like laying [TS]

  out where furniture is in room so I need [TS]

  something can do walls and doors and [TS]

  windows you know was correct to scale [TS]

  measurements and have like you know [TS]

  couches and tables you know just to see [TS]

  how furnitures gonna fit in the room [TS]

  without doing yourself by cutting a [TS]

  little pieces of paper which is fun but [TS]

  i figured that an ipad apple tree better [TS]

  and i have no idea about that area and [TS]

  as you noted searches terrible so I do [TS]

  what I think are reasonable searches and [TS]

  a big it shows a million hits half of [TS]

  which are scams or pieces of garbage and [TS]

  the ratings don't tell you that much [TS]

  I have to actually look at the reviews [TS]

  to see you know like a two-and-a-half [TS]

  star thing could be 50 people cranky [TS]

  that it's five dollars and then 150 [TS]

  people who think it's actually [TS]

  reasonably good at you have the only way [TS]

  to tell that is to look at the reviews [TS]

  so i will scroll through them and see [TS]

  you know we could because you can't tell [TS]

  people write things low for reasons [TS]

  unrelated to the functionality up i'm [TS]

  willing to pay 299 I don't care that [TS]

  ninety percent of your reviews and [TS]

  people who can't believe you'd want to [TS]

  charge 299 for this like I just want to [TS]

  do the job so I do read them and and we [TS]

  buy suppose so [TS]

  so my theory it was my impression of [TS]

  this so far basically is like the [TS]

  effectiveness and the value in [TS]

  developers be able to respond to reviews [TS]

  is highly dependent on implementation [TS]

  details of how this is actually done for [TS]

  both the reviewer the customer the [TS]

  reviewer the developer and people [TS]

  reading the reviews and also just how [TS]

  many people actually do go through and [TS]

  read reviews because I think iOS [TS]

  developers I have a pretty good idea [TS]

  that having star ratings matters having [TS]

  a high average matters and it looks [TS]

  better if you have a high number of them [TS]

  because it says you know usually in [TS]

  parentheses next to the star average [TS]

  will tell you how many ratings there [TS]

  were and so when when people are [TS]

  choosing a nap or deciding whether to [TS]

  download or buy a nap i think a lot of [TS]

  people do look at those star ratings and [TS]

  and that matters but the actual written [TS]

  reviews we don't really know I I kind of [TS]

  have a hunch that it didn't matter that [TS]

  much that that not a large percentage of [TS]

  people do go through and really [TS]

  read them or reread decent number of [TS]

  them and so if that's the case then [TS]

  whether developers can respond to them [TS]

  doesn't matter that much [TS]

  and if you look you know at this is one [TS]

  of those things that the android people [TS]

  going crazy today because android had [TS]

  this for years have maybe even since day [TS]

  one I don't even know from what we hear [TS]

  from Android people it's mostly a [TS]

  non-issue it's like yeah some people do [TS]

  it doesn't really matter like that's a [TS]

  but it isn't that big of a deal right so [TS]

  we don't know how this will play on iOS [TS]

  that it isn't the same market but [TS]

  there's certainly some overlap and if [TS]

  I'm right that not a lot of people read [TS]

  a lot of the reviews of the most of the [TS]

  ratings then whether you as a developer [TS]

  respond to them is really completely up [TS]

  to you and it's it's kind of an optional [TS]

  support channel if you want to be that [TS]

  being said abster reviews like your [TS]

  customers consider that a support [TS]

  channel whether you do or not and that's [TS]

  that's not going to suddenly start now [TS]

  that developers can leave responses [TS]

  that's always been the case you've [TS]

  always had people treating the review [TS]

  system as a support channel and using it [TS]

  to you know grind axes or to ask weird [TS]

  questions or to withhold stars as [TS]

  hostages until you add their favorite [TS]

  features like there has always been the [TS]

  case it's not going to change that for [TS]

  developers like the perception that [TS]

  people expect you to respond has always [TS]

  been there so that so people who are [TS]

  upset now this is like an additional [TS]

  supports and I have to manage the news [TS]

  flash it always has been we just haven't [TS]

  been able to manage it so now we we will [TS]

  have a way to do it [TS]

  implementation wise there's a huge open [TS]

  question of how are these shown are they [TS]

  shown in a way that many people will see [TS]

  them one of my big questions about it is [TS]

  if i respond to review is the person who [TS]

  wrote it notified of that response is [TS]

  sent to them in some way through you [TS]

  know through like an email by apple or [TS]

  something because if not then the value [TS]

  I think for me responding is even lower [TS]

  because a large part of the value if [TS]

  somebody write something that is either [TS]

  really a support request or is [TS]

  indicating they're having some kind of [TS]

  problem you could help with for the [TS]

  misunderstanding the app in some way [TS]

  like they're saying it doesn't have a [TS]

  feature but really [TS]

  does have that feature if they are [TS]

  notified of my response the that has a [TS]

  lot less value than to respond so that [TS]

  their implementation details it's it's a [TS]

  hit the rest a lot of this how are they [TS]

  showing the interface [TS]

  how did how to develop on how hard is it [TS]

  to respond [TS]

  do we have to go through some weird [TS]

  iTunes Connect tool is there going to be [TS]

  a third-party app that makes it easy how [TS]

  we're going to deal with the different [TS]

  storefronts and different parts of the [TS]

  world having to deal with different [TS]

  languages there there are lots of big [TS]

  question marks on the implementation [TS]

  details of this that will double decide [TS]

  how effective it is reason whether it's [TS]

  worth developers money or not and and of [TS]

  course there's going to be the people [TS]

  like Twitter and Facebook you just [TS]

  respond to every single thing with [TS]

  please email support and we'll try to [TS]

  help you out he does like fake template [TS]

  response but overall it's probably gonna [TS]

  be either completely forgettable and [TS]

  it's gonna be a total non-event and not [TS]

  a lot of people are going to respond and [TS]

  it'll be fine and nobody will care or it [TS]

  will be a positive thing [TS]

  the only downside is going to start [TS]

  reading reviews going to be positive for [TS]

  developers like a situation like one [TS]

  this this is a developer pleasing [TS]

  feature more than a customer pleasing [TS]

  one seems yes absolutely needed like [TS]

  customers may or may not care especially [TS]

  if that I notified knows but if you [TS]

  happen to be a specific developer who [TS]

  has a specific app that has a very [TS]

  popular lots of people clicked on [TS]

  helpful blah blah like the top review is [TS]

  a scathing review filled with mistaken [TS]

  information as in like you said I expect [TS]

  this thing to have feature accent [TS]

  doesn't it's garbage and it totally has [TS]

  feature excess person just hasn't found [TS]

  it and you would love to be able to tell [TS]

  them actually click on the block and [TS]

  there's a thing and you know like but [TS]

  you can't respond and you don't know the [TS]

  person's email and there's no way you [TS]

  can communicate that and your poor app [TS]

  sits there with this everyone you know [TS]

  everyone who loads up your app is going [TS]

  to see that is like the most helpful [TS]

  review and it is just the worst and most [TS]

  developers are in this situation but for [TS]

  the one that is this feature is like the [TS]

  best thing ever because you know they [TS]

  don't care how it affects the whole app [TS]

  store they don't care if it you know if [TS]

  it even gets them any more conversions [TS]

  they just you know it's like the [TS]

  principal I just can't stand this one [TS]

  mistaken [TS]

  review being sitting there sitting there [TS]

  at the top right I guess they just [TS]

  released a new version and erase it with [TS]

  the whole there the whole thing about [TS]

  how reviews and ratings are gonna last [TS]

  across releases which by the way is not [TS]

  part of this Apple has said they are [TS]

  aware of that problem they don't have [TS]

  anything to announce at this time but we [TS]

  should be looking forward to something [TS]

  happening there but in the meantime it [TS]

  just feels so good i can imagine as a [TS]

  developer to be able to finally respond [TS]

  i think even if they're not notified it [TS]

  just let you feel better to be like well [TS]

  that person will never know because [TS]

  they're long gone but anyone else who [TS]

  stumbles across reviews at least i've [TS]

  set the record straight whether or not [TS]

  you really set it straight [TS]

  whether you actually dig yourself in [TS]

  deeper by being passive-aggressive in [TS]

  your response and people look at think [TS]

  of your app works like it's just human [TS]

  nature to feel better about this and [TS]

  practically speaking I think you have to [TS]

  give developers that channel it's up to [TS]

  them to do something useful with the [TS]

  channel they could not use it at all or [TS]

  they could you know be self-destructive [TS]

  and do bad things with an argue with [TS]

  their customers even though you only [TS]

  have one reply i guess they get into [TS]

  edit wars as the question and the answer [TS]

  we added themselves over and over again [TS]

  but not having the channel along at all [TS]

  for like seven or eight years has just [TS]

  felt terrible and so I think this is [TS]

  it's a really important feature to have [TS]

  the importance is far out of proportion [TS]

  from the effect it will have on [TS]

  anybody's business probably but just [TS]

  like it was like why didn't you know you [TS]

  had a system for commenting you had [TS]

  everything in place we're not asking you [TS]

  to expose their emails which is another [TS]

  bone of contention of who owns the [TS]

  customers apple still owns them right [TS]

  but just give developers some way to [TS]

  respond and it took so long it's finally [TS]

  here so i think i think there's no way [TS]

  this can't be a net positive for the app [TS]

  store as a concept even if it's not a [TS]

  net positive for any particular person [TS]

  sales it will it will be in that [TS]

  positive for for developers state of [TS]

  mind [TS]

  exactly i'm looking forward to seeing [TS]

  how this shakes out and i don't know i'm [TS]

  also curious to hear what you think of a [TS]

  Marco after it's been a little while in [TS]

  seeing if you hate her she's certain hot [TS]

  well what do you think of it you're an [TS]

  iOS developer what do you think I don't [TS]

  know it's it's a little weird for my [TS]

  situation because it's it were it's a [TS]

  company it's not just me and seeing [TS]

  seeing the feedback come to our email is [TS]

  interesting and enlightening it does [TS]

  tell me that a lot of the problems we [TS]

  expect to see because we know that their [TS]

  problems you know a lot of people cite [TS]

  them as problems but there are certainly [TS]

  times where people are like I don't [TS]

  understand how to do blah [TS]

  why can't I do blah and in that [TS]

  situation it would be super convenient [TS]

  to be able to in this these are all the [TS]

  emails obviously we can reply but [TS]

  hypothetically these reviews it would be [TS]

  super convenient to be able to say oh if [TS]

  you need to do with that thing you just [TS]

  have here and then tap there and then [TS]

  problem solved [TS]

  and by the way it sounds like we need to [TS]

  make this better in the future but in [TS]

  that sense I I'm positive about it [TS]

  i-i-i don't suspect that it's going to [TS]

  be my personal job to be trolling the [TS]

  reviews and in controlling i guess but [TS]

  but we're getting through the dungeons [TS]

  you know me right [TS]

  weeding through the reviews to continue [TS]

  to to respond when necessary but i agree [TS]

  with with with both of you i think this [TS]

  is a net-positive in and i'm curious to [TS]

  see what happens in it and i'm also very [TS]

  curious to see if after a while like a [TS]

  few people start but people or companies [TS]

  for that matter start replying to [TS]

  reviews and we see how that goes and [TS]

  that either convinces the rest of us to [TS]

  dive in headfirst or if it convinces [TS]

  someone in the chat trolling that is [TS]

  what i was looking for terp tra WLA ng [TS]

  sorry anyway [TS]

  ICS oh it does does does Marco start [TS]

  replying to reviews and he has a [TS]

  terrible experience with it and so [TS]

  underscore says oh I'm never touching [TS]

  that or just Marco start replying to [TS]

  reviews and it's a great experience and [TS]

  suddenly underscores like heck yeah I [TS]

  want in on that and then suddenly my [TS]

  employers like heck yeah we want in on [TS]

  that you know what I mean like I'm [TS]

  curious to see what the not literal beta [TS]

  testers the kind of effective beta [TS]

  testers show us about the experience if [TS]

  it's garbage or if it's great really [TS]

  dependent [TS]

  Sally that we all know people who [TS]

  probably shouldn't respond to comments [TS]

  that you can make it yourself you know [TS]

  because you you have a free text box and [TS]

  if you get there like in the wrong mood [TS]

  you're angry like if you end up like [TS]

  yelling at your customers it's not a net [TS]

  win for you but I don't think someone [TS]

  like David Smith is going to see someone [TS]

  yelling at their customers I oh I better [TS]

  stay away from reviews because surely [TS]

  won't yell at customers like it customer [TS]

  support and dealing with you know the [TS]

  customer support issues is a skill and [TS]

  you can have more or less of it [TS]

  depending on where your skillset lies [TS]

  and it is not a thing that you should [TS]

  assume that you're able to do just [TS]

  because you wrote the application so I [TS]

  you know the channel has to be there but [TS]

  for you know that is it's giving people [TS]

  even though they only have one reply [TS]

  that is more than enough rope for a lot [TS]

  of people to hang themselves so now is [TS]

  another skill set that these small shops [TS]

  are independent developers who have to [TS]

  be able to do a million things guess [TS]

  what here's one more thing that do you [TS]

  have to add to your skill set or find [TS]

  some way to outsource and honestly and I [TS]

  said I'm an under-the-radar to but we [TS]

  can talk [TS]

  let's go together this weekend to this [TS]

  topic that we went into more of it but [TS]

  this is a huge opportunity in the tools [TS]

  space for some service or app to make it [TS]

  easy for developers to receive new [TS]

  reviews and replies them and track which [TS]

  ones they have either replied 2 or [TS]

  decided not to reply to across all the [TS]

  different stores maybe with built-in [TS]

  translate functionality of some sort [TS]

  with a decent API that's the thing [TS]

  please somebody make that and you can [TS]

  sell that to a lot of iOS developers for [TS]

  ongoing recurring subscription fee using [TS]

  Apple's caffeine can be an open rest api [TS]

  doesn't like always you're describing at [TS]

  you know it may just because i just did [TS]

  a podcast about this but all I could [TS]

  think of was a how much better that game [TS]

  I play that you guys make fun of all [TS]

  time destiny does with this exact thing [TS]

  destiny [TS]

  the game has an extensive API that is [TS]

  completely open to anybody who wants to [TS]

  use it the that will they can give you [TS]

  all the information about all your [TS]

  characters and all your stats and let [TS]

  you do things with it and there are you [TS]

  know browser plug-ins websites iOS [TS]

  applications everything you could [TS]

  possibly imagine for messing with your [TS]

  stuff and Destin why because it's an [TS]

  open API and said here's an API to all [TS]

  of our stuff and [TS]

  simple you know authentication scheme or [TS]

  you just authenticated the night is just [TS]

  and the number of things that people [TS]

  have made it just like the thing you [TS]

  just described would there be hundreds [TS]

  of those of the next day if this was [TS]

  destiny that we were talking about i [TS]

  don't know what the situation is for [TS]

  apples interface to reviews but if it's [TS]

  not as good as destiny the game maybe [TS]

  they should hire people from bungie [TS]

  because this is like making a decent API [TS]

  that anybody can use like a simple [TS]

  rest-based API that speaks json if you [TS]

  place not the harley individual people [TS]

  you know make these little chrome [TS]

  plugins or web pages that do amazing [TS]

  things and they do it all for free and [TS]

  they do in their spare time and any one [TS]

  of them you would love to have something [TS]

  that's that good for what you described [TS]

  for dealing with the reviews in the iOS [TS]

  App Store but if applicable proprietary [TS]

  and it's behind some weird thing then [TS]

  it's going to be much harder to make and [TS]

  there will be fewer of them and it will [TS]

  be set [TS]

  we're sponsor this week by betterment [TS]

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  ahh moving on I i hear rumor on the [TS]

  streets that Marco is actually going to [TS]

  in the new version of overcast and don't [TS]

  tell him i squealed he's actually going [TS]

  to change the icon for overcast should [TS]

  be the show art of the actively playing [TS]

  podcast since I've spilled the beans [TS]

  mark I wanted to tell us more about this [TS]

  so one of the features that has been [TS]

  added in in iOS 10.3 beta is this [TS]

  mechanism for seemingly setting [TS]

  alternate app icons from encode the [TS]

  implementation of this is a little [TS]

  questionable Steve transmitted some [TS]

  digging and apparently i don't believe [TS]

  the pen doesn't actually work yet but [TS]

  apparently there is evidence in the [TS]

  frameworks and stuff that it prompts you [TS]

  to confirm it like it prompts you to [TS]

  confirm any change of icon before [TS]

  actually applies it and so the question [TS]

  is what is this for [TS]

  and it is not for developers like me to [TS]

  do things like for instance like I would [TS]

  love to have to change the icon based on [TS]

  you know whether whether it's night or [TS]

  day and I could have like a dark mode at [TS]

  night if I and I get an automatic mode [TS]

  switching everything [TS]

  and that's just not gonna be practical [TS]

  if if that's what it is [TS]

  there was a tweet from the fantastical [TS]

  people that they would love to have [TS]

  because you know it's it's an [TS]

  alternative calendar app and just like [TS]

  the Apple calendar app they'd love to [TS]

  change your icon to be the day number [TS]

  every day just like what apple's app [TS]

  does it always shows the right date and [TS]

  it's not gonna do that either just [TS]

  prompt you every morning [TS]

  yeah right your certification time to [TS]

  update your icon come here and say okay [TS]

  you can kind of understand why they do [TS]

  it that way because it is akin security [TS]

  concern because of Apple yeah it [TS]

  programmatically change their icon and [TS]

  you could totally be be fish by an [TS]

  application that suddenly changes icon [TS]

  to look like some some trusted [TS]

  application and you don't notice that [TS]

  you're not on the page you thought you [TS]

  were on and you tap the icon it puts up [TS]

  like a fishing string looks just like [TS]

  the you know it like it is dangerous to [TS]

  to allow applications to arbitrarily [TS]

  change their icon without a prop so I [TS]

  totally understand the prompt but you're [TS]

  right that eliminates all sorts of use [TS]

  cases and especially with the fishing [TS]

  stuff this is kind of like so many other [TS]

  app store things fantastic house should [TS]

  be able to change its icon to be the [TS]

  date right it should be able to do that [TS]

  and it's like well but if we let them do [TS]

  that then everyone can it's like do you [TS]

  like there should be some earnable level [TS]

  of trust within the system i just like [TS]

  there is on stack overflow or whatever [TS]

  and fantastical should have earned some [TS]

  level of trust but this why don't know [TS]

  how this mechanism work is very [TS]

  difficult to do these types of system [TS]

  just ask the people who runs that [TS]

  overflow is it is a hard problem to [TS]

  solve [TS]

  but throwing up your hands and saying [TS]

  well no well fantastical can't show the [TS]

  data their icon that's not the right [TS]

  solution either so I'm glad [TS]

  whoever this feature is made for is [TS]

  getting the features that they asked for [TS]

  and I can think of reasonable use of it [TS]

  in that context but it kind of annoys me [TS]

  that the AP is already being made public [TS]

  but in a way that so many use cases [TS]

  can't be can't can't use it [TS]

  yeah i mean again like you said it is a [TS]

  tricky problem there's lots of problems [TS]

  lots of potential abuses for this so it [TS]

  does make sense why they would strictly [TS]

  control it but honestly I'm kind of [TS]

  surprised needs to be there at all [TS]

  I honestly I'm very surprising to be [TS]

  there at all and if it needs to be there [TS]

  at all i think it [TS]

  good it should be there in a way that's [TS]

  more useful so for instance like when [TS]

  maybe to avoid possible security issues [TS]

  maybe the icon has to be part of your [TS]

  apps bundle so you can generate a [TS]

  dynamically and then maybe active you [TS]

  checks all them just to make sure that [TS]

  you know that you don't have like the [TS]

  messages or Apple pay iconic you know [TS]

  like that's that's a way they could do [TS]

  it for everybody and that would make it [TS]

  a lot more fun and fantastic i could [TS]

  just ship 31 icons and have the actress [TS]

  call them without a proper like that's [TS]

  totally reasonable level even with those [TS]

  things because it's good if because your [TS]

  applications aren't supposed to even [TS]

  start to get like you could they can [TS]

  make an API like that but once you can [TS]

  get pointers things you can fill in the [TS]

  image data with a programmatically from [TS]

  an obfuscated giant data array that you [TS]

  hide in your stead like no you can't eat [TS]

  if it was like if it was a set image [TS]

  name to call and you had to pass it only [TS]

  a name something in your bundle there's [TS]

  no way to abuse that then people are [TS]

  very sneaky [TS]

  I mean what this it was the thing we saw [TS]

  recently with that uh the piece of [TS]

  malware in the app store doing some [TS]

  weird things in common somewhere api's [TS]

  with like some selective swing like that [TS]

  bottle is really difficult to both human [TS]

  and automatically determine whether an [TS]

  application site its kind of the halting [TS]

  problem though it doesn't mean that they [TS]

  shouldn't do it because it's impossible [TS]

  to do with a hundred percent accuracy [TS]

  like you're right they don't get there [TS]

  was discovered that I'm @ % case but I [TS]

  think also and even perhaps more [TS]

  reliably reputation of developers [TS]

  earnable through some kind of system to [TS]

  show that you are trustworthy and are [TS]

  not are trying to scam people and even [TS]

  that has problems because like what if [TS]

  you're not trying to scam but someone [TS]

  broke into your server and mess with [TS]

  your application like there's always [TS]

  going to be problems but at this point [TS]

  in the life cycle of of the appstore [TS]

  president of us a particularly for [TS]

  things like calendars where the utility [TS]

  of it is significant like I do look at [TS]

  the calendar icon to see what data is on [TS]

  my phone frequently that they have to [TS]

  find a way to make it be there whether [TS]

  it's the skin that you're describing [TS]

  America where it's just a very limited [TS]

  API or it is a trust-based system which [TS]

  would have many other uses by the way [TS]

  not just for this API could have uses [TS]

  for review x + 4 [TS]

  howdy Peru you do and stuff like that [TS]

  that this is another one of those things [TS]

  that should be there by now [TS]

  me no matter what the fact that there's [TS]

  an API even though it's super restricted [TS]

  right now I mean that's apple style [TS]

  right now I mean look at the Siri what [TS]

  do they call him the the the different [TS]

  groups of functionality there's a term [TS]

  for I can't think of off the top of my [TS]

  head but you know you can only use [TS]

  Syrian certain contacts [TS]

  well maybe this is one of those things [TS]

  and maybe they'll open it up in the [TS]

  future I mean I'm not terribly confident [TS]

  about that but it could be you never [TS]

  know but yeah however this came to be [TS]

  whatever this is about that i mean i [TS]

  guess [TS]

  cool maybe you will see what happens but [TS]

  i suspect just like market was saying [TS]

  this is going to amount to a whole lot [TS]

  of nothing for most people [TS]

  yeah i'm moving on Steve Trevor Smith [TS]

  who was i guess at this point an [TS]

  honorary member of the show since he's [TS]

  given most of the topics for tonight [TS]

  just by tweeting all this stuff he is [TS]

  also found a floating detached keyboard [TS]

  now this is different than the thing I [TS]

  don't even know if it's still a thing [TS]

  but then the thing that at least used to [TS]

  be the case where you could slide the [TS]

  keyboard up the screen on an ipad would [TS]

  split into so there would be like a half [TS]

  on either side of the screen and I think [TS]

  the intention there was so you could [TS]

  touch type with your thumbs LOL gripping [TS]

  the screen this is not the same thing is [TS]

  that because that split into this is an [TS]

  entire like iphone shaped and sized [TS]

  keyboard that you can use [TS]

  single-handedly on a 9.7 inch iPad which [TS]

  seems really peculiar and stupid to me [TS]

  at first and then I got thinking about [TS]

  it I was like you know that actually [TS]

  might make something about a sense this [TS]

  might be kind of cool [TS]

  so there is a way because if there is a [TS]

  situation where I'm holding an ipad [TS]

  one-handed which admittedly I can't [TS]

  imagine it would be terribly often but [TS]

  if I or maybe if I the ipad prompt and I [TS]

  wanted to use only one hand to type [TS]

  having all those keys right next to each [TS]

  other can see that being kind of cool i [TS]

  mean it's all pie political right [TS]

  because i haven't tried this myself but [TS]

  it might be neat [TS]

  I'm not writing this off immediately is [TS]

  garbage it might also be garbage i don't [TS]

  know it sounds like you don't you're not [TS]

  too impressed Marco we would have to see [TS]

  like how Apple tells the story of this [TS]

  feature like what is the intent of it [TS]

  assume you know if it gets released [TS]

  that's a big if but if you release that [TS]

  I would be very curious to know what [TS]

  Apple thinks of this feature what they [TS]

  expected to be used for because as it [TS]

  like you as he showing it in the [TS]

  screenshots I can't think of a good use [TS]

  for this like I think it would be very [TS]

  very hard to type on actual i'm actually [TS]

  ipad hardware no matter where you put it [TS]

  on the screen i think i'd be very very [TS]

  hard to type on the whole reason that [TS]

  keyboard works is because you are [TS]

  holding a device that is roughly the [TS]

  size of your hand using one or two [TS]

  thumbs on it the way you hold my pad is [TS]

  totally different way your fingers reach [TS]

  things on the ipad is totally different [TS]

  it i don't see how this would work [TS]

  honestly but at this point I OS is so [TS]

  big there's so much there they that they [TS]

  can add features like this that only [TS]

  like two people ever want to use or like [TS]

  the apt changing the app icon changing [TS]

  API that they headed that like you know [TS]

  how many apps are ever going to be able [TS]

  to use that in a constructive way [TS]

  05 you know that there's lots of api's [TS]

  now like various extension points that [TS]

  exist that are almost never used by [TS]

  anybody but like one type of app uses it [TS]

  and that's enough that you mentioned the [TS]

  Serie kit stuff like being able to order [TS]

  certain things through Syria query [TS]

  certain things to Syria where like [TS]

  that's really only ever going to be used [TS]

  by like 021 apps that are on somebody's [TS]

  phone but it's worth it to have it [TS]

  because those might be enough people to [TS]

  matter with iOS being so big [TS]

  something like this like you know I i [TS]

  would argue on the ipad they should [TS]

  probably spend their time doing more [TS]

  important things that affect more people [TS]

  on the ipad that could have a bigger [TS]

  return but you know someone's gonna use [TS]

  it and so I guess if it wasn't too much [TS]

  work it's probably fine but I hesitate [TS]

  to see her I I struggle to see the use [TS]

  of this myself think there was a tweet [TS]

  saying this is actually this code has [TS]

  been in there since the beginning I was [TS]

  ten like it's not a 10.3 feature and and [TS]

  again did to be cleared everybody this [TS]

  is not something that's in a 10.3 beta [TS]

  this is a hidden thing like the code is [TS]

  therefore it but it's not exposed to [TS]

  just like going through headers and [TS]

  finding thanks to call the most [TS]

  important thing to me looking at this [TS]

  potential feature that may or may not [TS]

  ever ship orb be revealed in any way is [TS]

  that it is i guess the second maybe I'm [TS]

  missing some things iteration of [TS]

  bringing essentially windows to iOS it [TS]

  is a floating square on the screen that [TS]

  is not you know it's not the screen [TS]

  divided in half or in thirds or slide [TS]

  our panel slides up from the side or [TS]

  whatever it is its own independent [TS]

  floating square that presumably you can [TS]

  put wherever you want [TS]

  I that's called the window doesn't have [TS]

  title bar on it it's not a window in the [TS]

  mac sense but it's definitely a window [TS]

  picture-in-picture also window you can [TS]

  kind of move that thing around on the [TS]

  screen without not equally freeform same [TS]

  thing with our little friend the [TS]

  assistive touch button nothing that you [TS]

  can put anywhere on the screen [TS]

  it's like iOS was first everything feels [TS]

  the screen and then second screen starts [TS]

  getting subdivided into pieces for [TS]

  multitasking and thirds in half and [TS]

  stuff like that and then finally a bunch [TS]

  of little guys come and plop on top on [TS]

  this one big floating layer on top of [TS]

  everything [TS]

  keyboards picture-in-picture is such [TS]

  stuff like it is a step in the direction [TS]

  away from the absolute extreme [TS]

  simplicity that iOS was born and towards [TS]

  a tiny tote dip into the world of the [TS]

  mac where you can have more than one [TS]

  thing on the screen at the same time in [TS]

  an arrangement of your choosing and you [TS]

  can move stuff around depending on and [TS]

  where you what you want to see and this [TS]

  tiny little keyboard is weird little [TS]

  iphone floating keyboard whatever thing [TS]

  is it interesting made not just because [TS]

  the window but also because it [TS]

  reinforces the idea and I feel this even [TS]

  on my iPad that sometimes when that [TS]

  keyboard slides up it's taking a larger [TS]

  portion of the screen then you think is [TS]

  appropriate for keyboard at this time [TS]

  like oh man my big ipad screen now huge [TS]

  portion has taken up with this big [TS]

  hogging keyboard if you put [TS]

  regular tasks you don't you don't need [TS]

  like that whole bottom third of the [TS]

  screen to be taken up with the keyboard [TS]

  just to have a little floating thing you [TS]

  can put anywhere maybe you don't want [TS]

  covering the bottom maybe want covering [TS]

  the left at the top of the side or maybe [TS]

  you want to your thumb or whatever the [TS]

  same reason people like this is a touch [TS]

  but even though they're chasing that [TS]

  little puck around the screen moving it [TS]

  out of the way so it doesn't obscure [TS]

  stuff apparently people get used to that [TS]

  and like that's just part of me using my [TS]

  phone is occasionally have to move the [TS]

  little thing out of the way but it's [TS]

  still preferable [TS]

  well here I think you're trading a very [TS]

  large keyboard take up you know not just [TS]

  obscuring a large portion screen but [TS]

  often they have to change their view [TS]

  hierarchy and view structure to [TS]

  accommodate for the very large keyboard [TS]

  when it comes up to say no application [TS]

  you don't have to change the layout at [TS]

  all let the user deal with that the user [TS]

  will be the janitor and I'll Steve Jobs [TS]

  parlons and they'll just move the little [TS]

  tiny keyboard around where they wanna [TS]

  move it now like like both of you said [TS]

  haven't used this it does not [TS]

  immediately appear to be to me to be any [TS]

  sort of win and I kind of agree with the [TS]

  fact of not being exposed right now and [TS]

  i would like to have to see what kind of [TS]

  story they explain this but like the [TS]

  split keyboard that I think Casey [TS]

  mentioned before where you take the the [TS]

  existing I always keyboard and split and [TS]

  i'm pretty sure that future still exists [TS]

  because i've used it recently recently [TS]

  ish like in the last year they announced [TS]

  that feature they showed it people who [TS]

  had an odd and i think most people who [TS]

  don't use it just forgot about it but [TS]

  it's still there doesn't do anybody harm [TS]

  if you don't ever use it and you don't [TS]

  ever accidentally trigger it [TS]

  it's fine so this could be in that [TS]

  category of things but i want to [TS]

  encourage Apple to continue to explore [TS]

  this radical idea we call windows with [TS]

  the lowercase W haha oh my goodness yeah [TS]

  we'll see what happens it's it's [TS]

  fascinating to me that that Apple is [TS]

  shipping this code dark not surprising [TS]

  necessarily but just interesting but [TS]

  what's really super interesting is that [TS]

  stratton's Smith is finding all the [TS]

  stuff like just the stuff that he can [TS]

  dig up it is tremendous and and I don't [TS]

  even know where to begin to do some of [TS]

  the stuff that he's able to do and I'm [TS]

  deeply impressed by it and i love that [TS]

  he sharing it with the world even to the [TS]

  point of making a sample project that's [TS]

  on github and we have a [TS]

  link to it in the show notes are linked [TS]

  to tweet of his any way to exercise the [TS]

  icon thing like to such cool stuff and [TS]

  mana i wish i was smart like him but [TS]

  anyway yeah we'll see what happens with [TS]

  this floating keyboard thing i do think [TS]

  that your your point about the windowing [TS]

  is interesting John especially because [TS]

  if i recall correctly you can actually [TS]

  resize the picture picture window if you [TS]

  like pinch it [TS]

  I think there are some limits but I [TS]

  think you can you can enlarge and shrink [TS]

  it and I've also noticed that you can [TS]

  kind of flick it off to the side so [TS]

  there's just like a little like handle [TS]

  or like nothing that pokes out off the [TS]

  side of the screen so if you wanted to [TS]

  like shimmy it off to the side just for [TS]

  a moment to look at something and then [TS]

  bring it back you can do that so there [TS]

  is some amount of window management [TS]

  that's going on in iOS today and it [TS]

  seems like more and more is coming which [TS]

  is really really interesting and [TS]

  picture-in-picture like it shows apples [TS]

  willingness to ship features in iOS in [TS]

  which it's up to you to deal with that [TS]

  little window like the whole point is [TS]

  you don't have to have the app in the [TS]

  front you can go do other things and we [TS]

  don't even mess with your multitasking [TS]

  won't even take up one of the [TS]

  multitasking slots or whatever it's just [TS]

  this little window and maybe it's [TS]

  blocking stuff it's up to you to move it [TS]

  out of the way if it's covering [TS]

  something you don't want moving to [TS]

  different places you just want to get [TS]

  rid of it like it is pushing that [TS]

  management decided that you know we're [TS]

  like I don't care that it covers part of [TS]

  screen and if it's covering something [TS]

  knowing you move it and in practice i [TS]

  found with picture-in-picture it's [TS]

  usually not that hard to find someplace [TS]

  on the screen where you can put it where [TS]

  it's not bothering you and you know [TS]

  where that is because you know the apps [TS]

  that you're using that's you know that's [TS]

  the curse and the power of windows as we [TS]

  all know on you know typical personal [TS]

  computers is you can put them wherever [TS]

  you want and you can arrange in a way to [TS]

  make sense to you and it's so much more [TS]

  limited is like you have very few of [TS]

  these little things and that the where [TS]

  you can put them and how big they can be [TS]

  and how you know Clayton was incredibly [TS]

  limited but i think you know coming from [TS]

  a world where the entire phone was one [TS]

  application all the time that incredible [TS]

  simplicity and moving to a world with no [TS]

  ipad pro you know large type devices [TS]

  with a pen and all the stuff you have to [TS]

  start giving people the ability to do [TS]

  this otherwise you're not leveraging the [TS]

  power [TS]

  of the larger screen and multitasking [TS]

  and all that other stuff [TS]

  yeah you know I love picture-in-picture [TS]

  on my iPad and i love it so much [TS]

  even on Mac OS that i found i remember [TS]

  who introduced us to me but and forgive [TS]

  me if I mentioned on the show before but [TS]

  there's a safari extension called Pied [TS]

  Piper but it's pied p.i.p or get it [TS]

  anyway it's a party extension that will [TS]

  allow you to easily do [TS]

  picture-in-picture on like YouTube and I [TS]

  think vimeo and a couple other places [TS]

  and plaques for the flex web front-end [TS]

  yes I am aware that you can do something [TS]

  like right click right click again dance [TS]

  on youtube in order to get it to support [TS]

  picture in picture but this just puts a [TS]

  little a little button right on the [TS]

  video that lets you kick it over to a [TS]

  picture-in-picture and i find that super [TS]

  convenient particularly because although [TS]

  i don't believe in having a gazillion [TS]

  safari tabs like you do John i do [TS]

  believe in having about eleventy billion [TS]

  spaces or virtual desktops and so having [TS]

  picture-in-picture can let this hover [TS]

  across several different spaces which is [TS]

  really nice so i'll put a link to that [TS]

  in the show notes anything else on iOS [TS]

  10.3 and briefly mentioned they [TS]

  reviewing interface thing that markets [TS]

  are you talking about an under-the-radar [TS]

  but that was a tissue we talked about in [TS]

  past ATP's I think with applications [TS]

  asking you to rate them and obviously [TS]

  more often than you would like and we [TS]

  were discussing you know all maybe you [TS]

  could report them that they're doing [TS]

  that or application shouldn't be doing [TS]

  that but then how do you enforce the [TS]

  guidelines Apple solution to this seems [TS]

  to be making official api for asking [TS]

  that and put limits on the official API [TS]

  and eventually some point in the future [TS]

  force everyone to use the API so this [TS]

  sounds i endorse this plan this sounds [TS]

  like a good plan i look forward to them [TS]

  rolling it out I like that they're doing [TS]

  it reasonably cautiously not just one [TS]

  day saying hey guess what if you're a [TS]

  pass for reviews in any way except the [TS]

  eventual API you will get rejected [TS]

  they're not doing that but the API is it [TS]

  the limits are are saying like three [TS]

  times per year you can ask and with with [TS]

  a global switch that says I never want [TS]

  to be asked to write an application i'm [TS]

  going to use that global switch because [TS]

  i do never want [TS]

  BS many applications that i use and like [TS]

  frequently asked me to write them and [TS]

  have obnoxious choices at the bottom of [TS]

  the dialog boxes none of which my [TS]

  brainstem nothing in my brain doesn't [TS]

  know which one to pick so i have to read [TS]

  words and be like it's like he may be [TS]

  later [TS]

  no like I just go away box i don't want [TS]

  to see you so I endorse this API I wish [TS]

  it would come sooner in fact i wish they [TS]

  would you know make it even more [TS]

  draconian now and the nice thing is [TS]

  everything about heard about this is [TS]

  like yes this these are these are [TS]

  reasonable choices like what about the [TS]

  applications like Marcos that never [TS]

  prompt you but just have a little [TS]

  section in the preferences that say if [TS]

  you want to read it [TS]

  are they okay answer yes you're totally [TS]

  allowed to do that because that's not a [TS]

  thing that pops up in your face if [TS]

  you're scrolling through the settings [TS]

  and you see the thing those applications [TS]

  don't have to be removed from the store [TS]

  or change the thing and if Marco wants [TS]

  to make it so when you tap that thing [TS]

  that popped up an inline thing to review [TS]

  the app can he use the new API yes you [TS]

  can see it's not that hard like it was [TS]

  something like every every API that [TS]

  Apple every sort of App Store rule or [TS]

  API the introduce their being a bunch of [TS]

  obvious problems that we all want about [TS]

  right [TS]

  no obvious problems this one there maybe [TS]

  not obvious problems but like it is just [TS]

  a great feeling to get an outside of the [TS]

  app store and go they made up for all [TS]

  the big choices they made reasonable [TS]

  ones yeah yeah i mean this is like again [TS]

  we we did spend about half under the [TS]

  radar this we talking about this subtree [TS]

  put that in the show notes plug plug [TS]

  however this is one of this is like [TS]

  quintessential good Apple this is like [TS]

  seeing a problem that is that causes a [TS]

  poor user experience but that that for [TS]

  some reason that they exist for good [TS]

  reason [TS]

  so like these app review these rate my [TS]

  appt dialogues exist for good reason [TS]

  because they work and because as I [TS]

  mentioned earlier star ratings in the [TS]

  appstore tend to matter and so when you [TS]

  can have a way for most apps to get a [TS]

  lot more star ratings that will [TS]

  definitely increase their downloads and [TS]

  sales in a way that most people don't [TS]

  love but most of them also just don't [TS]

  care that much about it that's going to [TS]

  happen that's going to be inevitable so [TS]

  Apple has a [TS]

  dress the need for them with this API to [TS]

  say okay we understand that you need to [TS]

  prompt users for that you think you need [TS]

  it [TS]

  there needs to be a way to prompt users [TS]

  to review your app however they take [TS]

  control away from the developer of of [TS]

  whether that's allowed to happen or not [TS]

  the developer still says when it should [TS]

  happen but they don't know whether it [TS]

  will succeed or not and then combined [TS]

  with the policy change that will be [TS]

  coming down the road at some unspecified [TS]

  time that says you won't be allowed to [TS]

  ask for reviews any other way that [TS]

  combination will be awesome [TS]

  the only problem I see with this which [TS]

  again we talked about this [TS]

  under-the-radar please listen to that [TS]

  also the only promise you with this is [TS]

  enforcement because i think it's going [TS]

  to be similar to the rules that they [TS]

  have against spam push notifications or [TS]

  push notifications are used for quote [TS]

  marketing or promotional purposes i [TS]

  think every single app that uses push [TS]

  notifications with very very few [TS]

  exceptions including like the App Store [TS]

  app has been used for promotional [TS]

  purposes like apps abuse this all the [TS]

  time Apple themselves abuse this [TS]

  sometimes and you know games are the [TS]

  worst big content apps are the worst big [TS]

  company apps the worst like tons of apps [TS]

  span notify people for things like hey [TS]

  bombs are now on sale for a limited time [TS]

  come check out the newest content like [TS]

  crap like that that is explicitly [TS]

  prohibited in the app review rules but [TS]

  that has never been enforced in any kind [TS]

  of scale because it's kind of hard to [TS]

  enforce that when you're reviewing apps [TS]

  for like three minutes at a time as long [TS]

  as you don't see the problem come up [TS]

  during those three minutes during a [TS]

  preview [TS]

  it's gonna be really hard to enforce [TS]

  unless as we discussed a couple times [TS]

  way back like maybe they could have some [TS]

  kind of like report a problem button but [TS]

  like is Apple really going to clutter up [TS]

  their UI of like every notification or [TS]

  something like that or every app icon or [TS]

  every app in the store with like a [TS]

  report violation button we probably not [TS]

  and so so that the problem that this [TS]

  review policy and review change will [TS]

  have is like if they can't really [TS]

  consistently in force [TS]

  that you are allowed to do it the old [TS]

  way anymore then all the big absurd [TS]

  data-driven like Twitter and so thirds [TS]

  gonna keep doing the old way and [TS]

  nothing's gonna really like but it's [TS]

  only going to hurt like the good people [TS]

  who are trying to think the right way I [TS]

  think you only need a small number of [TS]

  people reported like this is not a type [TS]

  of thing we need like everybody even [TS]

  know the reporting interface is this all [TS]

  you need is five nerds five nerds to [TS]

  know where that important right because [TS]

  all you need to do is alert Apple oh hey [TS]

  maybe check this out about maybe doing [TS]

  this thing and I'm like push [TS]

  notifications [TS]

  it's not like this is a data-driven [TS]

  thing where like the the Avenue is there [TS]

  and the Avenue is legal is just the [TS]

  content that's bad [TS]

  this is the place where the Avenue is [TS]

  not allowed you are not allowed to pop [TS]

  up a dialog box that says anything about [TS]

  ratings and leads people to ratings like [TS]

  without using the official API right so [TS]

  you don't have to be like about you your [TS]

  body's push notifications just the [TS]

  things that you push notification [TS]

  shouldn't be adding like totally will [TS]

  never push ads right that's not a [TS]

  reviewable thing whereas popping up a [TS]

  dialogue I mean obviously you can be [TS]

  sneaky and sail the content of the [TS]

  dialogue is pulled from the web and [TS]

  you'll never know what it is right you [TS]

  know people can work around it but if [TS]

  you just let us go out into the wild and [TS]

  nerds know where the boxes that tells [TS]

  them the applications a problem then [TS]

  that will you know and then they sort [TS]

  them by volume and they just say every [TS]

  week go through the ones that people are [TS]

  complaining about and see if it's yes [TS]

  it's true look I you know I spent more [TS]

  than three minutes with this application [TS]

  and guess what it does prompt you for [TS]

  ratings and bring the banhammer right [TS]

  it's you know it's like all these [TS]

  enforcement problems like just because [TS]

  you can't do it a hundred percent [TS]

  doesn't mean you shouldn't try it all [TS]

  day and they need to get better at about [TS]

  this in general some kind of feedback [TS]

  mechanism for um and honestly I think [TS]

  applications will be motivated to use it [TS]

  like because this the API another good [TS]

  things API does is it improves the [TS]

  application you don't have to send [TS]

  people elsewhere to write review anymore [TS]

  they can stay in your app developers [TS]

  have wanted that for a long time and now [TS]

  you get it so there is incentive there's [TS]

  a carrot as well as a stick for [TS]

  everybody to use API no I'm i was happy [TS]

  with this announcement and and honestly [TS]

  like I hate read this app dialog boxes [TS]

  but the implementation of this is so [TS]

  good that I think I would leave it on [TS]

  and i think i'd be totally okay with [TS]

  apps I use on a regular [TS]

  this is showing this easy little box [TS]

  like once and then i can just say yeah [TS]

  okay [TS]

  4 stars five stars ever done and that's [TS]

  it like I would I never leave ratings [TS]

  for anything because I don't want to go [TS]

  through the hassle and never think about [TS]

  it i should because you know usually [TS]

  people access to grind everything still [TS]

  like if you like things you should leave [TS]

  ratings for them but i just i almost [TS]

  never do I i have very few reviews on my [TS]

  account because I don't think about it [TS]

  this makes it a lot easier to do it so [TS]

  as a customer i think and as somebody [TS]

  who wants to support good apps i [TS]

  actually believe this on it is a really [TS]

  nice implementation of your reviews that [TS]

  you just over uva reminded me to shame [TS]

  me into the same thing like I think when [TS]

  do I leave star reviews and why don't I [TS]

  and you got both the reasons i almost [TS]

  never do and I don't because who wants [TS]

  to leave the application there in to go [TS]

  do something but if it was in the [TS]

  dialogue and I get just the number of [TS]

  stars i would do that and I should and [TS]

  thinking of that river and obviously [TS]

  don't have any apple store to think [TS]

  about you but i do have podcasts in the [TS]

  itunes store and those get reviews and [TS]

  not going to say they are tire fire [TS]

  because they're not they're good reviews [TS]

  you know we have good reviews for this [TS]

  podcast and for our podcasts and I'm on [TS]

  but as shows age what I have found is in [TS]

  new reviews that come in more slowly and [TS]

  the reviews become increasingly negative [TS]

  because eventually everyone who had [TS]

  anything nice about the show has already [TS]

  said what they have to say which is fine [TS]

  economy and reviews can you add for [TS]

  leave for a show but if in the middle of [TS]

  this podcast a you know a magic auditory [TS]

  dialog box will pop up and people could [TS]

  auditorily you know or with mental [TS]

  powers press like right this is the [TS]

  analogy is falling apart anyway it was [TS]

  really easy to write podcast i think [TS]

  more people would read it and I think it [TS]

  would make the ratings nicer but it's [TS]

  not easy to a podcast and therefore [TS]

  nobody does it and i have to say i don't [TS]

  write the podcast i listen to either [TS]

  common so the only people who are [TS]

  motivated to rate podcasts are when the [TS]

  show new launches and people are [TS]

  enthusiastic and then later when people [TS]

  are angry and so now we have left of the [TS]

  angry people reading the podcast which [TS]

  is fine like I don't even know how [TS]

  reviews are our podcast stars have any [TS]

  effect on already [TS]

  at all either but I mean it's also [TS]

  possible that you might be using a [TS]

  podcast app his creator is very [TS]

  vehemently against the idea of podcast [TS]

  reviews but never implement such a [TS]

  feature or other podcast things have it [TS]

  well it's not a lot of other pockets [TS]

  have their own directories those that do [TS]

  I don't know that neither have any kind [TS]

  of review system but that's probably for [TS]

  good reason because you're few systems [TS]

  for podcasts are terrible idea but [TS]

  there's no api like to to do I terms of [TS]

  use basically to give a starting to ice [TS]

  not know i really doubt it i mean you [TS]

  might be able to hack it through some [TS]

  kind of undocumented weird thing but i [TS]

  really doubt that would be a massive [TS]

  potential for abuse so I don't think [TS]

  they would want to expose that any real [TS]

  way you could you can read reviews [TS]

  through an API that's I think also [TS]

  undocumented I don't do that either i [TS]

  don't care i don't want to show the [TS]

  content of reviews the readings from [TS]

  reviews I i think in the context of [TS]

  podcasts and podcasts urchin podcast [TS]

  discovery the star rating system is [TS]

  incredibly dysfunctional and and [TS]

  therefore I'd I just do not want it and [TS]

  I don't want overcast to show any part [TS]

  of it ever i have a recommendation [TS]

  system which is a simple like thumbs-up [TS]

  that's it like it's a it's a boolean [TS]

  like you like this that's it there's no [TS]

  dislike there's no stars there's no [TS]

  commentary there's many problems those [TS]

  systems simple thumbs up easy now the [TS]

  recommendation system and overcast works [TS]

  really well like there was a Christmas [TS]

  dinner she don't know someone another [TS]

  podcast to talk about sup and I was like [TS]

  I want to get that podcast too so i [TS]

  launched overcast and I went to the [TS]

  screen where you like I was gonna like [TS]

  search for the show name or whatever but [TS]

  it didn't have to because it was already [TS]

  like the very top of the like most [TS]

  recommended thing he was right there [TS]

  like it with the icon and I recognize [TS]

  that because the iconic had seen on [TS]

  Twitter like oh that must be it Boop [TS]

  done didn't even need to type anything [TS]

  into the search box and that's just from [TS]

  people going sums up pay this was a good [TS]

  episode of the show that's all it takes [TS]

  like I don't really care what the star [TS]

  rating is for that podcast on a final [TS]

  note for tonight there's been a lot of [TS]

  mathematics that's been done [TS]

  there's been a lot of math done math [TS]

  British listeners maths Casey it's math [TS]

  no it's [TS]

  math they don't know what that means [TS]

  yeah whatever did you know it's [TS]

  pronounced hover anyway so friendly so [TS]

  damn Provost who is one-half of studio [TS]

  need has done some math he's crunch some [TS]

  numbers and he is concluded that there [TS]

  probably should [TS]

  or at least could be attending a half [TS]

  inch iPad and I'm gonna try to summarize [TS]

  this as quickly as possible if you look [TS]

  back to the original big ipad pro [TS]

  announcement what Schiller had said was [TS]

  hey if you take two full-size iPads [TS]

  vertically and portrait but put them [TS]

  adjacent with each other that screen [TS]

  real estate of the two of them combined [TS]

  is the size real estate wise young [TS]

  resolution whys of the 12.9 inch iPad [TS]

  pro so Dan said well what happens if you [TS]

  did the same thing but with ipad mini's [TS]

  so you have to ipad mini's standing in [TS]

  portrait mode next to each other jason [TS]

  to each other how big with the resultant [TS]

  ipad need to be so q some math a little [TS]

  Pythagorean theorem and guess what the [TS]

  answer is right around ten and a half [TS]

  inches which works out there aware that [TS]

  works out in which is interesting [TS]

  because we've been starting to hear a [TS]

  little bit of rumbling about oh there [TS]

  might be a 10 and a half inch iPad [TS]

  someday somehow in the future but nobody [TS]

  really understood it and tells dance [TS]

  started to do this math so this sounds [TS]

  really darn plausible from to me what [TS]

  I'm not sure of and I've heard a lot of [TS]

  people pontificating about it is do they [TS]

  keep a 9.7 inch iPad around if i were to [TS]

  wager a guess I'd say they do but only [TS]

  in the dustbin the the old devices been [TS]

  cheaply as Apple is off to do what do [TS]

  you think knowing who that means going [TS]

  to be here for like 10 years [TS]

  well there's that so mark how do you how [TS]

  do you read all this what do you think I [TS]

  think it sounds very plausible I mean it [TS]

  seems like if you look at the the 12.9 [TS]

  inch ipad / users like they the people [TS]

  who like that are real power users of [TS]

  the ipad like they really like having [TS]

  multitasking especially [TS]

  but you know because it the more you [TS]

  multitask the more you really want [TS]

  resolution if they ever do windows like [TS]

  john wants that would be even more [TS]

  important as we know from using PC's [TS]

  forever so you know the demand for it i [TS]

  think it is is almost certainly there [TS]

  because lots of people who are real ipad [TS]

  power users want that extra resolution [TS]

  for multitasking but but for whatever [TS]

  reason either its Carrie sighs or hand [TS]

  size or whatever else the 12.9 is is a [TS]

  little too big it's it's a pretty big [TS]

  ipad like speak if you're ready spending [TS]

  time with one Casey the 12-9 not really [TS]

  there's a couple people work that have [TS]

  them so I see them and even though I see [TS]

  them from time to time like maybe once a [TS]

  week every time I see one I think to [TS]

  myself my word this tremendous like that [TS]

  it really is like comically large yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah and so especially if you come [TS]

  from the mini right so yeah so and and [TS]

  you know too so the many shows us that [TS]

  you can take the regular 9.7 in a quote [TS]

  regular ipad 9.7 resolution you can [TS]

  shrink it down a little bit to iphone [TS]

  density and as long as you have decent [TS]

  eyesight it works right and so there is [TS]

  a market for that for people who don't [TS]

  mind a little bit of everything little [TS]

  smaller or maybe younger or power users [TS]

  are really precise with their fingers [TS]

  whatever else they would rather have a [TS]

  smaller Carrie sighs and still have [TS]

  higher resolution so there is a market [TS]

  for that going from 9.7 resolution into [TS]

  the ipad mini size so therefore follows [TS]

  there's probably also a market for [TS]

  people who want the 12-foot high [TS]

  resolution in you know a more like 9.7 [TS]

  size so i think this makes a lot of [TS]

  sense whether it'll do is another story [TS]

  it's plausible certainly we've heard [TS]

  minor rumblings and I think big picture [TS]

  before drawing it until you I'm wrong [TS]

  about all this i think big picture if [TS]

  you look at the way Apple devote [TS]

  resources in recent years they may find [TS]

  a product line that is like in great [TS]

  need of attention and they they spend [TS]

  like a year really like whipping into [TS]

  shape and then they move on to the next [TS]

  thing that needs a lot of attention [TS]

  the apple TV a couple years ago was that [TS]

  thing you do apple TV was in terrible [TS]

  shape there's lots of increasing [TS]

  competition they wanted to get it onto a [TS]

  nap model and so they they gave some [TS]

  effort to it they give a big boost and [TS]

  they just left it alone that there's an [TS]

  almost nothing changed in the [TS]

  innumerable TV since its release [TS]

  you know you're a half ago whatever that [TS]

  was that last year they they put that [TS]

  amount of attention on the Apple watch [TS]

  because the apple watch was basically on [TS]

  fire when it came allocate was inserted [TS]

  had so many problems and so watch us [TS]

  three got like lots of attention i [TS]

  expect that the Apple watch is not going [TS]

  to see tons of major changes this year i [TS]

  think last year was it's time to shine [TS]

  it got a bunch of good improvements in [TS]

  watch us three and now we're probably in [TS]

  for a quiet period and now i expect this [TS]

  year to be another year of ipad [TS]

  improvements where I expect there to be [TS]

  the decent investment into the ipad this [TS]

  year to try to turn around its sales [TS]

  curve to try to really boost it try to [TS]

  get it moving as like as another growth [TS]

  engine again and I also expect that this [TS]

  year i hope that there is a [TS]

  larger-than-usual effort put into the [TS]

  iphone I I think it's the iphones turn [TS]

  if you know it in this model so [TS]

  basically i think my phone is a lot more [TS]

  importantly ipad so i expect the iphone [TS]

  to get things that are a little more [TS]

  resource intensive and the ipad to get [TS]

  things that will satisfy people like [TS]

  kinda like holdover updates so you know [TS]

  long-standing customer requests like if [TS]

  we ever get the rumored fix of the [TS]

  multitasking switcher to have like a [TS]

  much better app launching icon thing [TS]

  than the weirdo card then they have now [TS]

  like that's probably going to happen [TS]

  this year it's gonna happen at all [TS]

  because it made like it [TS]

  this is the year for like ipad [TS]

  improvements that people really wanted [TS]

  to get people excited about the ipad [TS]

  again that and that will keep the power [TS]

  users going and then probably major [TS]

  effort on the iphone hardware wise i [TS]

  hope [TS]

  here's the thing about the ipad form [TS]

  factor and where the product is and its [TS]

  life it's one of the easiest products [TS]

  for Apple to fiddle with because at [TS]

  ipad sighs with the internals you have a [TS]

  lot of leeway you have so much leeway [TS]

  that they don't even have to use all the [TS]

  space for battery anymore right [TS]

  it could be pretty darn thin they have [TS]

  room for giant speakers the actual [TS]

  system-on-a-chip and all the other [TS]

  things is so small compared to the size [TS]

  of the device you can for from [TS]

  year-to-year make a different decisions [TS]

  about how big is it how big is the you [TS]

  know the this around for the entire [TS]

  screen doesn't have a home button on the [TS]

  screen that tech ever comes from the [TS]

  iphone like you can play with all sorts [TS]

  of sizes and by the way every time you [TS]

  change the size or any other dimension [TS]

  you can sell more accessories and cases [TS]

  and stuff and everybody loves that so [TS]

  tech wise and investment wise it's such [TS]

  an easy thing to do to say we can take [TS]

  you know the ipad pro 9.7 which is which [TS]

  is one of the best iPads ever made and [TS]

  change a whole bunch of things about it [TS]

  dimensionally to try to make a different [TS]

  compromise in the product with very [TS]

  little investment because what does it [TS]

  really take to change the size of the [TS]

  screen by you know less than an inch [TS]

  below to take the update the mac pro [TS]

  right like it's not all here we go no [TS]

  but this is this is like this is the [TS]

  easiest thing ever because you're not [TS]

  under space constraints just a matter of [TS]

  finding new supplier and they do that [TS]

  routinely anyway even if they keep the [TS]

  screen the same size to find suppliers [TS]

  for things like you can tweak this [TS]

  product and I think the ipad is in a [TS]

  good place I think the ipad pro is you [TS]

  know one of the best iPads apple has [TS]

  ever made perhaps the best and it is one [TS]

  of the few products that i recommend [TS]

  apple products arrow into people these [TS]

  days with no reservations I want to get [TS]

  an ipad i like that i was up should i [TS]

  get the ipad yes just get it is there's [TS]

  nothing wrong with it is great maybe [TS]

  could have more rapid who cares [TS]

  like it's so good but there's so few [TS]

  compromises it you know and the few [TS]

  things that I think about that they can [TS]

  change these rumors except for [TS]

  satisfying type of things you can do to [TS]

  make people happy [TS]

  would I like an apple pencil to that [TS]

  connects to the smart connector hell yes [TS]

  I'm in charge from it i hate the little [TS]

  plug in thing in the end the end the [TS]

  chart that you rarely have to do that [TS]

  like the battery lasts long time but [TS]

  there's room for improvement with small [TS]

  changes to form factor and fit and [TS]

  finish and they'll get to sell new cases [TS]

  and new pencils and new [TS]

  new third party stuff they don't like [TS]

  such an easy win and I don't know if [TS]

  that counts as like you said Marko [TS]

  putting lots more investment the ipad [TS]

  and giving it more attention what I [TS]

  think it counts as is satisfying [TS]

  customers of the ipad with actually a [TS]

  fairly minimal investment just doing [TS]

  like the basic stuff saying well we made [TS]

  a couple iPads we've learned some things [TS]

  change it was shifted around you know [TS]

  they don't know what sizes they talk [TS]

  about the original iPad this is the size [TS]

  that we picked me just got to pick one [TS]

  sighs fine but as the product line [TS]

  diversifies I don't care how many sizes [TS]

  of ipad there are as long as they're not [TS]

  changing by three millimeters three or [TS]

  four sizes is fine with me and you want [TS]

  to fade one out and bring another one in [TS]

  these are not radical shifts i mean [TS]

  aside from the thing we talked about it [TS]

  like i would like a 28 inch ipad i know [TS]

  that the Americans of service to do [TS]

  that's a whole different product right [TS]

  whatever but within the realm of ipads [TS]

  the youth battery-powered iPads that you [TS]

  hold in your hands [TS]

  I'm perfectly happy to see them mess [TS]

  with the dimensions of this product and [TS]

  the sort of the ergonomics and how it [TS]

  works with the case in the pencil and [TS]

  all that stuff and I can't imagine that [TS]

  that type of change is a break the bank [TS]

  type of thing so by all means Apple [TS]

  continue to make the already good ipad [TS]

  better with minimal investment and with [TS]

  the money that you save you have a line [TS]

  of desktop computers that and I think [TS]

  that does it [TS]

  thanks a lot 23 sponsors this week [TS]

  indochino betterment and Casper and we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in [TS]

  because it was accidental death was [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  John research Marco and Casey would help [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  know today p dot and if your twitter [TS]

  follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  what [TS]

  so a friend of the show Brianna Wu has [TS]

  decided that she really hasn't had [TS]

  enough grief in her life and so she's [TS]

  thought you know what I'm gonna run for [TS]

  Congress doesn't which is it the house [TS]

  of the Senate i always get a backwards [TS]

  that she's running for house i believe [TS]

  right so she's running for the house in [TS]

  Massachusetts if I understand everything [TS]

  properly and she has a and add that we [TS]

  will link to in the show notes and so [TS]

  one of the platform's she's running on [TS]

  among other things is like the whole [TS]

  kerfuffle from I guess was early last [TS]

  year middle last year about Tim Cook in [TS]

  in the iphone FBI stuff i think that's [TS]

  worth mentioning something that's that's [TS]

  relevant potentially to a lot of our [TS]

  listeners even if you don't happen to [TS]

  live in Massachusetts Oh John is our [TS]

  representative mass it just sit didn't I [TS]

  don't even know what do you call [TS]

  yourself against it just wanted to say [TS]

  just the same asshole did you know I [TS]

  really did I really really did but I [TS]

  tried not to I'm we gotta write in [TS]

  Massachusetts and that's right i'm [TS]

  pretty sure that's not right got it in [TS]

  one [TS]

  pretty sure that's not it at all anyway [TS]

  so what are your thoughts on this John [TS]

  yeah so she's running Massachusetts [TS]

  she's running and another Democrat [TS]

  because surprised investors it's well [TS]

  maybe it was we've had we've had [TS]

  problems with Republicans here before [TS]

  but anyway she is running into the [TS]

  Democrat who is I it is insufficiently [TS]

  aligned with democratic principles and [TS]

  is not prioritizing things that she [TS]

  would like to prioritize and one of [TS]

  those issues one of the issues that is [TS]

  relevant to attack podcast is the idea [TS]

  that you know mr. most politicians [TS]

  regardless of party they don't know much [TS]

  about tech stuff and they're easily [TS]

  influenced by companies with a lot of [TS]

  money who will persuade them to vote in [TS]

  ways that are aligned with the interest [TS]

  of those companies and because they [TS]

  don't know much about the second like [TS]

  well I don't know I guess this is the [TS]

  right thing to like they don't even know [TS]

  right but if you someone who is involved [TS]

  in a tech world has a chance to take [TS]

  stands on and make an important part of [TS]

  the platform issue [TS]

  do we care about so for example the [TS]

  iphone FBI stuff like it i think if you [TS]

  just asked a regular person should the [TS]

  FBI be able to get into a terrorist [TS]

  phone like they also yes of course [TS]

  totally right but to understand the [TS]

  bigger issue right [TS]

  the bigger issue of like oh don't just [TS]

  don't just answer based on your fear of [TS]

  terrorism but think about the bigger [TS]

  issue of data privacy and the [TS]

  consequences and what it would lead to [TS]

  if if you know all information was [TS]

  accessible within the encryption was [TS]

  outlawed all these other things are all [TS]

  those things the tech people i feel like [TS]

  i have a better grasp on than regular [TS]

  people to make that a platform of a [TS]

  congressional run a its novel to have [TS]

  someone who's actually informed about [TS]

  tech and who's making those issues you [TS]

  know front center like this is a [TS]

  differentiating factor my opponent [TS]

  doesn't know about any of this stuff and [TS]

  doesn't care and it's going to always go [TS]

  the wrong way on these issues because [TS]

  they're just gonna be aligned with the [TS]

  cable companies or whatever doing to [TS]

  their campaign right we go again [TS]

  regardless of party this is not a [TS]

  partisan issue like tech is terrible in [TS]

  the political world but to make it a [TS]

  differentiating factor but my question [TS]

  is do do people care enough about this [TS]

  issue for it to be a good idea [TS]

  politically speaking like maybe the [TS]

  reason that no politicians bring it up [TS]

  is that like yeah so what you are on the [TS]

  right side as far as not to concern but [TS]

  are there enough nerds to make this [TS]

  something that helps you get elected or [TS]

  is this an issue that you've never seen [TS]

  campaign ads for a very good reason and [TS]

  a very good reason being nerds are few [TS]

  and don't vote or don't believe you or [TS]

  don't care and I don't know the answer [TS]

  to that question i like the idea of you [TS]

  know who doesn't like the idea of their [TS]

  pet issues becoming the platform of some [TS]

  politicians gonna say I know you care [TS]

  about you no net neutrality and digital [TS]

  privacy and whatever and no one ever [TS]

  talks about them but i'm going to talk [TS]

  about them like yes I like that person [TS]

  but if there's like seven of us out [TS]

  there who care about these things is not [TS]

  going to help her get elected so I'm of [TS]

  two minds in this i'm i'm i'm happy to [TS]

  be catered to by candidate who believe [TS]

  the same things I do about these [TS]

  relatively esoteric features but [TS]

  especially in the current climate which [TS]

  i'm not going to go into too much where [TS]

  there are so many issues that I think we [TS]

  all agree or so much more important than [TS]

  this is this [TS]

  a distraction or even in the best of [TS]

  cases two people really care enough [TS]

  about digital privacy and other tech [TS]

  issues to vote based on and to be clear [TS]

  that's not like the only item and honor [TS]

  platform by any stretch of the [TS]

  imagination oh do not mean the ad will [TS]

  have a link in the show notes is not [TS]

  even about that like it's not about that [TS]

  at all like women's issue is much larger [TS]

  platform and that's an easier sell [TS]

  because yes i think that is a winner yet [TS]

  women's issues is anything i mean just [TS]

  look at the Women's marching like plenty [TS]

  of women of all based on religion but [TS]

  specifically as it relates to attack [TS]

  podcast you know her her mentioning and [TS]

  all that this is an issue and part of [TS]

  her platform i think is is rare and [TS]

  novel so i'm not i'm not excluding any [TS]

  other things that are much more [TS]

  important are what I'm saying this issue [TS]

  specifically does anyone care enough [TS]

  about it or will it always be dwarfed by [TS]

  the much more important issues including [TS]

  women's issues i think it's it's it's [TS]

  one note in in the music right it it's [TS]

  one it's one thing that that certainly I [TS]

  care about in and I think the two you [TS]

  guys care about that when a [TS]

  representative elected representative of [TS]

  mine here in Virginia votes against what [TS]

  i consider to be common sense nerd [TS]

  topics LOL for example of voting against [TS]

  net neutrality like I i notice that and [TS]

  that's enough to make me strongly [TS]

  consider the way I vote the next time I [TS]

  vote so yeah I think I think this this [TS]

  can absolutely sway people i think [TS]

  you're right also that there are far [TS]

  more important things to worry about [TS]

  but this is also something that I am [TS]

  worried about always feel the same way [TS]

  when I say you know my representatives [TS]

  which in general i'm fairly well aligned [TS]

  with because it in the state that happen [TS]

  to live in but again they you know they [TS]

  just vote the wrong way in my opinion on [TS]

  so many issues related to attack and [TS]

  it's like you just have to swallow that [TS]

  and be like look the alternative [TS]

  alternative is so much worse and I'm so [TS]

  much more important things on the other [TS]

  hand just it just hurts to constantly at [TS]

  the small that sought i am like that i'm [TS]

  excited by someone who I agree with all [TS]

  the big issues and also these one [TS]

  section of small issues right and that [TS]

  definitely it's so rare stuff [TS]

  a4tech things because everybody can know [TS]

  what's going to find a politician that [TS]

  agrees with everyone interview so it [TS]

  doesn't exist you always have you know [TS]

  even if we didn't have this horrible [TS]

  two-party system [TS]

  you're never going to find someone to [TS]

  represent you like I agree with every [TS]

  single thing they say you gotta have a [TS]

  hierarchy you gotta prioritize and so on [TS]

  and so forth but I think tech is not and [TS]

  not as obscure as it should be more [TS]

  prominent than it is let's put it that [TS]

  way because the importance of tech in [TS]

  all of our lives has increased so much [TS]

  over the past several decades but now it [TS]

  actually is up there with the other [TS]

  issues you know it should be discussed [TS]

  it should it shouldn't be like oh that's [TS]

  incredibly esoteric who cares about the [TS]

  internet because the Internet is [TS]

  extremely powerful and extremely [TS]

  important and its power and importance [TS]

  is not diminishing over time so maybe [TS]

  it's generational thing and then we have [TS]

  to wait for a couple of generations to [TS]

  turn over before we really get into a [TS]

  world where people accept and understand [TS]

  the importance and power of networks on [TS]

  the internet and hopefully we don't make [TS]

  too many bad decisions before then screw [TS]

  it all up you know but it should be [TS]

  talking about more than it is and it's a [TS]

  shame that even today I give me the [TS]

  frame and then i gave this is still [TS]

  viewed as a thing that only nerds care [TS]

  about and can understand but it affects [TS]

  everybody's life doesn't matter whether [TS]

  you're in or whether you're into techno [TS]

  radio signals podcast these issues do [TS]

  affect your life but it's basically [TS]

  impossible to live in the united states [TS]

  and not be affected by you know did the [TS]

  technology law and telecommunication law [TS]

  and all those things you are affected by [TS]

  it whether you understand you know why [TS]

  your cable bill is going up or you know [TS]

  where you're able to get information [TS]

  over and from or not things could be [TS]

  much worse than they are and I think the [TS]

  net neutrality thing we've sort of held [TS]

  the line on it for a long time but it's [TS]

  it's a fragile wall would crumble in any [TS]

  moment and it really hope more people in [TS]

  Congress and running for Congress bring [TS]

  this issue along like you said another [TS]

  note in the in the symphony it deserves [TS]

  to be at least mention that's not going [TS]

  to say that it deserves to be at least [TS]

  mention along with the other headline [TS]

  issues that are that are much more [TS]

  important you know the people's lives [TS]

  depend on in a very real and immediate [TS]

  way tech issues [TS]

  should also be brought along for the [TS]

  ride at this point so moving on to [TS]

  anything that's not politics so Casey it [TS]

  seems like you might be thinking more [TS]

  seriously this is about possibly getting [TS]

  a Tesla that is not true stop with that [TS]

  ridiculousness [TS]

  so let me let me just give you a brief [TS]

  statement on matter of you possibly [TS]

  adding a test left so we're so you cars [TS]

  are a big part of your identity and how [TS]

  is it is gonna write this is not so this [TS]

  is how this is gonna go okay right yeah [TS]

  seriously [TS]

  so when we went to cars and coffee a few [TS]

  weeks ago I made the remark that now [TS]

  that I'm a Tesla person and neck now [TS]

  that I I i look at all the other cars [TS]

  out there and all they're like [TS]

  decked-out engines and big mufflers and [TS]

  all this like horsepower and everything [TS]

  else and I i feel kind of the way I feel [TS]

  now when I see like cool like [TS]

  overclocked pc hardware with like all [TS]

  the blue leds in it and everything else [TS]

  it's like that is something that was a [TS]

  part of my life was a huge part of my [TS]

  life for a long time but what I've moved [TS]

  to now all that is irrelevant to me now [TS]

  and so I look at that now and like I [TS]

  look at the cool pc hardware even just [TS]

  like fast pcs good graphics cards [TS]

  awesome cpus the dual cpu students that [TS]

  used to be members of my family and now [TS]

  aren't all of these like high-end PC [TS]

  hardware things that I used to love so [TS]

  much [TS]

  I'm no longer interested because I see [TS]

  them and I'm like okay that's cool I I [TS]

  respect the kind of horsepower your pc [TS]

  has but because I'm no longer interested [TS]

  in Windows PCs that's all I i have a [TS]

  hard time really like getting into it as [TS]

  much and it's kinda feels like it's the [TS]

  past in my life so at this car event I [TS]

  kind of felt that way looking all these [TS]

  cars thinking like now that i have [TS]

  experienced the joy and and sheer [TS]

  disruption of driving electric car that [TS]

  really does [TS]

  make all gas-powered cars feel like the [TS]

  past and and feel old clunky by [TS]

  comparison even really good ones [TS]

  it makes them feel old and clunky by [TS]

  comparison I had a hard time [TS]

  appreciating much of the like cool car [TS]

  world because of that because now I've [TS]

  kind of shifted in in what I what I live [TS]

  in and what I like it was important to [TS]

  me so for you to get it for you to [TS]

  consider a Tesla I have a feeling that [TS]

  you were going to have a very hard time [TS]

  in your mind [TS]

  reconciling that with your with this [TS]

  core part of what you've made your [TS]

  identity of like you love cars you love [TS]

  cars your whole life and you love like [TS]

  the engine parts of cars you love the [TS]

  love like the mufflers and the noise and [TS]

  the cylinders like you love all that [TS]

  stuff right and so I wonder like if [TS]

  maybe you should be considering a Tesla [TS]

  more seriously than you are but maybe [TS]

  you're not letting yourself consider it [TS]

  because you're because you don't want to [TS]

  put at risk that part of your identity [TS]

  changing so i think i'm trying to think [TS]

  of a brief answer the answer to this [TS]

  quasi question because I think we could [TS]

  do a a like 15 minute deep dive into my [TS]

  psyche and in what what motivates me and [TS]

  what doesn't but I understand where [TS]

  you're coming from i think the the first [TS]

  of all the primary reason I'm not really [TS]

  considering a Tesla is it's just so much [TS]

  money it's just so much money i had said [TS]

  I'd said to you privately that you know [TS]

  if you look at what in at what a [TS]

  reasonably well equipped model s cost if [TS]

  one were to buy one and I'm not to say [TS]

  that's the right answer but that's what [TS]

  i think of because of all of only ever [TS]

  bought cars I've never I've never least [TS]

  so you look at the price tag of a [TS]

  reasonably equipped model assets [TS]

  covering around a hundred thousand [TS]

  dollars i understand you can get cheaper [TS]

  ones but built the way i would want it [TS]

  it would probably be around a hundred [TS]

  thousand dollars that's almost three [TS]

  times what I paid for my current car [TS]

  which is a BMW 3-series that's not an [TS]

  unreasonable car like that it's a pretty [TS]

  nice car [TS]

  well to be fair you are you are [TS]

  comparing used to New though so easier [TS]

  so could compare used to use if you're [TS]

  going to make a price comparison [TS]

  oh it's the okay well I have to go the [TS]

  other direction because i don't have the [TS]

  faintest idea what a test was used but i [TS]

  can tell you that my car when it was new [TS]

  was fifty-five thousand dollars [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  so which wich to be clear is ridiculous [TS]

  like my car is very nice it is not a [TS]

  55,000 our car that that's why i bought [TS]

  a used but in any case so you're looking [TS]

  at two of my car 41 Tesla and that in [TS]

  and of itself makes all of my pipe [TS]

  dreams moot because there's I don't [TS]

  think that there's any way I could [TS]

  justify spending that kind of money or [TS]

  the equivalent thereof in a lease i just [TS]

  i don't think i could do it now this is [TS]

  where everyone will say well perfect the [TS]

  model 3 is just the right car for you [TS]

  maybe i don't know i'm skeptical it'll [TS]

  be as quick as I'd like it to be and [TS]

  this is where everyone says what do you [TS]

  really need to go fast for I don't but [TS]

  that's what I like and I like what I [TS]

  like no there's nothing wrong with [TS]

  wanting to go fast and and believe me [TS]

  with the Tesla there is ample speed even [TS]

  their slow models are fast for the model [TS]

  s i agree i'm less confident in the 38 [TS]

  very well could be very very well could [TS]

  be i'll end up wrong in which case I [TS]

  think I'll give a model 3 a real look I [TS]

  didn't put a deposit down or anything [TS]

  like that because i think it will still [TS]

  be like 2-3 years before one of those is [TS]

  even available for those who put a [TS]

  deposit down i forget what the official [TS]

  timeline is but we'll see [TS]

  yeah but so let's assume for the sake of [TS]

  conversation that I'm willing to spend a [TS]

  hundred thousand dollars or the [TS]

  equivalent thereof in the lease payment [TS]

  i think you're largely on to something [TS]

  in that it would be a tough bridge to [TS]

  cross because I have for my entire life [TS]

  since I can remember I've treated cars [TS]

  in in car culture to some degree as such [TS]

  a critical part of my life and I think [TS]

  that comes from there was always an old [TS]

  car in our garage my dad worked for IBM [TS]

  for something like 30 point 30 years but [TS]

  there was a brief window of time before [TS]

  he started working for IBM where he was [TS]

  a professional mechanic for buick and he [TS]

  had all in he had always tinkered with [TS]

  cars since he was a kid [TS]

  now the difference [TS]

  and a denies that he has actual [TS]

  practical knowledge and all of my [TS]

  knowledge well what little I have is all [TS]

  theoretical and if you doubt me on that [TS]

  I have a podcaster and community people [TS]

  but in any case but all kidding aside [TS]

  you know I've grown up with cars around [TS]

  me all my life and you know I think you [TS]

  tend to emulate your parents and my dad [TS]

  has always been obsessed with cars and [TS]

  so because of that i think i've always [TS]

  been obsessed with cars and even if if i [TS]

  were to get a Tesla sitting here now not [TS]

  knowing any better i think i would [TS]

  probably want like a stupid Dino juice [TS]

  powered not weekend carbonate weekend [TS]

  car one that has three pedals maybe a [TS]

  convertible that I've ever owned one [TS]

  really but that sounds like it could be [TS]

  fun you know like an s2000 or something [TS]

  like that uh you just have just have to [TS]

  remind me what driving used to feel like [TS]

  before it was all automated and before [TS]

  some of the soul was taken out of it and [TS]

  i don't mean that to be insulting I just [TS]

  feel like it's a very different animal [TS]

  with with the Tesla but I tell you what [TS]

  you know when we were out that morning [TS]

  on new year's eve i drove us from cars [TS]

  and coffee to where we had breakfast and [TS]

  every time I gave that that Tesla this [TS]

  was this was underscores Tesla every [TS]

  time I gave that Tesla a little bit of [TS]

  my right foot it just put a humongous [TS]

  smile on my face because it is just [TS]

  freaking intoxicating having infinite [TS]

  torque from no RPM it's it's [TS]

  unbelievably intoxicating and so to that [TS]

  end I wonder if I had a model ass if I [TS]

  would get over it a lot quicker than I [TS]

  expect I sure did I mean like until you [TS]

  like like when I i going from the m52 [TS]

  the model s I really was afraid that I [TS]

  would really miss like the sporty you no [TS]

  vienes of the m5 and shifting shifting [TS]

  gears and everything and I really didn't [TS]

  like I thought that would I was very [TS]

  worried about that and I ate it was a [TS]

  complete non-issue as soon as hard drive [TS]

  models like oh my god this is so good [TS]

  now that being said if you theoretically [TS]

  were to do you're like little gas car [TS]

  for fun weekend reminding yourself that [TS]

  you exist if only there was someone else [TS]

  in your household [TS]

  was looking for a new full-size sedan [TS]

  yeah so what you sayin Aaron gets a [TS]

  tussle [TS]

  I mean Aaron [TS]

  I mean Aaron [TS]

  can make her own her own car decision of [TS]

  course but maybe aaron could get a model [TS]

  s because that's the size and end class [TS]

  of car that I believe she wants the [TS]

  space from and then you for like you [TS]

  know when you go to work and you can [TS]

  leave leave the model s at home for you [TS]

  know because errands with Declan during [TS]

  the workday right so you know they're be [TS]

  the car seat in that one and then you [TS]

  write your little s2000 which is [TS]

  probably not that expensive today [TS]

  because they're not that new you write [TS]

  your s2000 work or miata or something [TS]

  and you have you had your fun little [TS]

  rocket engine car with a stick with [TS]

  three pedals and that that's you remind [TS]

  yourself that you like cars car and then [TS]

  you have the model s it as the other car [TS]

  your family that Aaron drives most of [TS]

  the time and that you slowly fall in [TS]

  love with you know I is funny and [TS]

  wrenching that for a couple reasons [TS]

  first of all I've marked up the street [TS]

  with Aaron and she's told me in no [TS]

  uncertain terms that there's no way she [TS]

  would be spending that kind of money a [TS]

  hand model s now it's kind of funny [TS]

  because it's her money is my money and [TS]

  my money is her money it's all really [TS]

  our money but be that as it may also [TS]

  join digestion obviously right but yes [TS]

  she said no way she says she has no [TS]

  interesting and not because she doesn't [TS]

  think it's nice and she's driven [TS]

  underscores car once or twice as well [TS]

  and I think she really liked it but she [TS]

  just does not feel like it's the right [TS]

  value for money because i don't think it [TS]

  is value from my well so as an [TS]

  automobile alone i don't think it's a [TS]

  very good price performer as a glimpse [TS]

  of the future and not that bad but which [TS]

  mind into your car for those repairs [TS]

  don't even talk to me about that it's a [TS]

  very sore subject [TS]

  can I give you my plan for all this [TS]

  disposable income for the press of cases [TS]

  used BMW you can get his inherent honda [TS]

  accord with how grand take the hundred [TS]

  grand that you are going to spend on the [TS]

  Tesla and bayous ferrari done and done [TS]

  Oh talk about maintenance costs yeah [TS]

  right it's your fun but you have two [TS]

  very large cars the both of which can [TS]

  carry all your stuff at all the children [TS]

  and then when case he wants to feel [TS]

  connected to you know the living [TS]

  breathing heart inside him [TS]

  don't think your heart breeds you don't [TS]

  mean that he would have a Ferrari and i [TS]

  have to say going to the cars & coffee [TS]

  think I didn't having despite having [TS]

  driven and been driven in Tesla's which [TS]

  I think are great but you know and I i [TS]

  would recommend anybody who wants to buy [TS]

  one [TS]

  whenever I still love all those cars i [TS]

  still want a Ferrari and I think in 20 [TS]

  or 30 years all eventually want an [TS]

  electric Ferrari but right now i want to [TS]

  guess one that's what I want [TS]

  please send me that now if i had a [TS]

  hundred grand there is no way I would be [TS]

  looking like if i had a hundred grand i [TS]

  was forced to spend on a car i will be [TS]

  looking at Ferraris because it would be [TS]

  like i can i can i get a used ferrari [TS]

  430 season i think i can can you afford [TS]

  to maintain a hundred grand ferrari when [TS]

  it stops working i'll just look at it [TS]

  and enjoy it like it's a piece of art [TS]

  like like that guy you know that guy who [TS]

  put the old Ferrari like inside his [TS]

  house [TS]

  remember they had yep right I can relate [TS]

  to that guy i probably wouldn't do that [TS]

  but I can relate to that guy because [TS]

  even when it's not moving looking at it [TS]

  would make me happy and the Tesla when [TS]

  it's not moving looking at it's a [TS]

  fine-looking car [TS]

  don't get me wrong it's not an ugly car [TS]

  but it does not make me happy in the way [TS]

  of looking at Ferrari does so I still I [TS]

  would still spend that kind of [TS]

  disposable income on a completely [TS]

  frivolous and practical car not even [TS]

  pretend like I don't want a practical [TS]

  car for a hundred grand I want a car [TS]

  that no one should ever owned and that's [TS]

  the Ferrari well it do you remember our [TS]

  it was a few years ago i'll put a link [TS]

  in the show notes that Doug tomorrow who [TS]

  at the time was with Jalopnik not sure [TS]

  if he still is he bought a Ferrari he [TS]

  bought it [TS]

  this article was written in December 14 [TS]

  he said he had it for a little under a [TS]

  year put 5,000 miles on it [TS]

  he spent about thirty thousand dollars [TS]

  between appreciation maintenance [TS]

  everything else so it's thirteen [TS]

  thousand dollars a year just like about [TS]

  the same as your BMW that right [TS]

  oh really the engine exploded any point [TS]

  on this Ferrari or no I don't think so [TS]

  it's been awhile since I read this [TS]

  article but my engine didn't exactly [TS]

  exploded today would've wanted [TS]

  no it just had if relatively [TS]

  catastrophic failure if it starts to eat [TS]

  itself make small pieces of metal that's [TS]

  bad [TS]

  no wait don't start to eat itself you [TS]

  big jerk it's just the piano system kind [TS]

  of forgot how to work [TS]

  no big deal and then the water pump [TS]

  kinda forgot how to work no big deal [TS]

  pretty sure my car has neither of those [TS]

  for the record yet but it has it has [TS]

  some kind of water from probably for the [TS]

  cooling of the batteries [TS]

  that's true there are far fewer things [TS]

  that can go wrong with electric car like [TS]

  this i'm i'm totally on board with the [TS]

  lecture I will get an electric car soon [TS]

  as they come down to my price which [TS]

  could be a while this right but Heidi [TS]

  like I'm i can i can relate to kc both a [TS]

  and not in the absence of money falling [TS]

  on my head [TS]

  it's hard for me to justify as a parent [TS]

  by my car purchases spending that much [TS]

  money on a car period and if I had that [TS]

  kind of money and I was forced to spend [TS]

  it on a car i would be thinking way more [TS]

  frivolous then then the test which witch [TS]

  is which is like it sounds extravagant [TS]

  but the test liz is an eminently [TS]

  practical car it is not a frivolous car [TS]

  you will not cost you 13 grand repair [TS]

  bills you do not need to hire a special [TS]

  Italian to do your parents for you [TS]

  there's nothing in the car to go wrong [TS]

  for the most part except for the [TS]

  infotainment system that can find [TS]

  podcast are like and the door handles [TS]

  yeah and the door handles it was a [TS]

  pretty darn boring car for that amount [TS]

  of money going to buy the my life so [TS]

  it's gross [TS]