The Accidental Tech Podcast

207: Selling Hot Dogs on a Stick


00:00:00   I just for the first time in awhile [TS]

00:00:01   picked up my iphone 5s had an outfit for [TS]

00:00:04   overcast testing this steak is a waffle [TS]

00:00:08   time it's so good like you tried tried [TS]

00:00:14   to accomplishing anything that you [TS]

00:00:16   you're like someone who were trying not [TS]

00:00:18   to mention it but whatever the last [TS]

00:00:20   thing that you know it's like that the [TS]

00:00:22   most impression on you [TS]

00:00:23   oh god oh god no I mean yeah it's a kind [TS]

00:00:27   of thing like i was doing some testing [TS]

00:00:29   if you did a few days ago and that's why [TS]

00:00:31   i just picked him out move it out of the [TS]

00:00:33   ways we could put the show and it just [TS]

00:00:35   feels so good when i pick it up and like [TS]

00:00:37   man I'm it looks so good I wish phones [TS]

00:00:38   could still look that good and still [TS]

00:00:40   feel like go to my hand but then i [TS]

00:00:42   actually use it to do my tests I'm just [TS]

00:00:45   like man this is such a toy this is [TS]

00:00:47   social offices but I've actually I've [TS]

00:00:50   honestly been thinking like okay so my [TS]

00:00:53   my phone is continuing to not be able to [TS]

00:00:56   make phone calls reliably this it since [TS]

00:00:59   i since day one [TS]

00:01:00   both mine and tips iphone sevens have [TS]

00:01:03   been very frequently exhibited the exact [TS]

00:01:05   same problem of the microphone cuts out [TS]

00:01:08   during phone call so that the other [TS]

00:01:09   person can't hear us for like 10 seconds [TS]

00:01:11   or four consecutive at a time often [TS]

00:01:13   resulting in them saying hello until the [TS]

00:01:15   hang-ups it and were screaming we're [TS]

00:01:17   here we're here we're here and they just [TS]

00:01:18   hang up after a while cos you know [TS]

00:01:20   usually doesn't recover and it's you [TS]

00:01:22   know you say you might think you're [TS]

00:01:25   never on the phone [TS]

00:01:27   oh I never never take phone calls you [TS]

00:01:28   know I use apps on my phone time you'd [TS]

00:01:31   be surprised how many times a phone call [TS]

00:01:34   become something important even in a [TS]

00:01:37   lifestyle like this simple things like [TS]

00:01:40   when your credit card gets flagged for [TS]

00:01:42   fraud and you have to call them and [TS]

00:01:43   explain it and they hang up on you in [TS]

00:01:46   the middle because they say I'm sorry it [TS]

00:01:47   seems like no one here anymore we have [TS]

00:01:49   to hang up anyway so I've been thinking [TS]

00:01:52   about maybe trying a plus [TS]

00:01:56   while I get this phone fixed Oh [TS]

00:01:58   boom but I don't know I i just keep [TS]

00:02:01   walking because like the camera on it is [TS]

00:02:03   so good even though it's not that great [TS]

00:02:04   a little light but I don't know I i use [TS]

00:02:08   my phone so much and so often i wish the [TS]

00:02:11   screen was bigger but when i do have the [TS]

00:02:14   plus for like a week here there [TS]

00:02:16   I'm just like oh this is so unwieldy in [TS]

00:02:18   my hand I hate holding it I like it so [TS]

00:02:20   it's easy and anyway that's that's the [TS]

00:02:23   current waffle but it's not a very [TS]

00:02:24   serious waffle yet maybe Michael work on [TS]

00:02:26   me for a couple of weeks and we'll see [TS]

00:02:27   but probably not probably just wait for [TS]

00:02:29   the next one can we not put this in the [TS]

00:02:31   show because i want to hear Mike slip [TS]

00:02:32   after after it's inevitably released and [TS]

00:02:34   then he start celebrating on you [TS]

00:02:36   offering again [TS]

00:02:37   also I take issue with something you [TS]

00:02:39   said a minute ago the 5s unquestionably [TS]

00:02:42   feels amazing in a hand [TS]

00:02:45   oh my god it feels so good in the hand [TS]

00:02:47   but I actually stand by my earlier [TS]

00:02:49   assessment that this iphone 7 matte [TS]

00:02:54   black that I have my hands while [TS]

00:02:57   unquestionably slippier than the most [TS]

00:03:00   slippery soap that you've ever held it [TS]

00:03:02   is aesthetically my favorite iphone have [TS]

00:03:04   ever used which is unfortunate because [TS]

00:03:06   it is like holding a bar of soap but god [TS]

00:03:09   I think this thing is beautiful that [TS]

00:03:10   doesn't mean you have to agree but this [TS]

00:03:12   is my favorite phone of all the iphones [TS]

00:03:14   I've owned purely visually the on the [TS]

00:03:17   phone sighs thing the air pods are [TS]

00:03:20   giving me a a little bit of relief from [TS]

00:03:24   the excessive size of the six side which [TS]

00:03:27   is only size of what i have but it's [TS]

00:03:29   obviously bigger than the plus R naught [TS]

00:03:31   plus the the ipod touches i used to use [TS]

00:03:32   remember i said when i first got the air [TS]

00:03:35   pods that the clicker thing on my wired [TS]

00:03:38   headphones was beating them in the [TS]

00:03:39   kitchen while the airports have made a [TS]

00:03:41   comeback because they allow me to put my [TS]

00:03:44   phone down someplace else [TS]

00:03:45   mmm [TS]

00:03:46   and not have it in my pocket wouldn't [TS]

00:03:48   think it would make a difference when [TS]

00:03:49   I'm going around the kitchen and cooking [TS]

00:03:50   but when you're cooking in the kitchen [TS]

00:03:52   occasional you have to bend down to get [TS]

00:03:53   like a pot out of a low thing or [TS]

00:03:55   whatever and no matter which pocket I [TS]

00:03:57   put my phone in it's just big enough to [TS]

00:03:59   be uncomfortable when I bend down and I [TS]

00:04:02   feel like I'm either bending my phone or [TS]

00:04:03   it's just you know I don't know just but [TS]

00:04:05   nice not to have it there are you know [TS]

00:04:07   it's just [TS]

00:04:07   anyway I feel better life for my phone [TS]

00:04:10   down you know on a side table in the [TS]

00:04:14   other room and then just walk around the [TS]

00:04:15   kitchen with my airports are probably [TS]

00:04:17   back in the house now [TS]

00:04:18   hey goes to show that I would never [TS]

00:04:21   trade down this for the smaller size no [TS]

00:04:23   matter how good it feels in the hand [TS]

00:04:25   because it like Marco said you don't [TS]

00:04:27   just hold the thing it's not it's not a [TS]

00:04:28   worry stone that you're just rubbing [TS]

00:04:30   your hand you actually look at it and [TS]

00:04:31   touch the screen and for looking and [TS]

00:04:32   touching the screen on a bigger screen [TS]

00:04:34   so i have one but I do like a good at [TS]

00:04:37   the airport for letting me keep my phone [TS]

00:04:38   away from myself while listening to [TS]

00:04:40   audio i I'm just I'm so torn because [TS]

00:04:43   whenever i am using it i want a bigger [TS]

00:04:45   screen but whenever I'm holding it I [TS]

00:04:47   want a smaller phone and you talk about [TS]

00:04:49   the 5s but no i'm talking about the [TS]

00:04:51   middle of the 4.7 inch size [TS]

00:04:53   oh I'm never happy with this size but [TS]

00:04:57   I'm also not happy with any of the other [TS]

00:04:59   ones so i picked the one of the middle [TS]

00:05:01   that's kind of mediocre at everything [TS]

00:05:03   and I am I guess least at least unhappy [TS]

00:05:06   but the but I don't know this is why i'm [TS]

00:05:09   hoping so much that the next industrial [TS]

00:05:11   design of the phone puts a larger screen [TS]

00:05:13   smaller bodies like that's I would love [TS]

00:05:16   so much you have the size screen the [TS]

00:05:19   plus has but in something that isn't [TS]

00:05:21   quite as much bigger than the plus I you [TS]

00:05:24   know any any reduction in size and [TS]

00:05:27   probably enough to push me over the edge [TS]

00:05:28   even if it's a small reduction just like [TS]

00:05:30   fine like and i don't i'm not talking [TS]

00:05:32   about thickness you know that as as you [TS]

00:05:34   know from ever listening to me complain [TS]

00:05:36   about anything ever [TS]

00:05:37   I don't care that much about thickness [TS]

00:05:39   it in the iphones kids more about the [TS]

00:05:41   footprint the dimensions because that's [TS]

00:05:43   what makes it awkward in the hand and an [TS]

00:05:45   awkward in my pocket the thickness [TS]

00:05:48   itself is is not that important to me so [TS]

00:05:50   I'm really really hoping the next one [TS]

00:05:53   does something like that but I don't [TS]

00:05:55   know this they keep selling so many of [TS]

00:05:56   these I don't ever change it [TS]

00:05:58   speaking of topical things [TS]

00:06:00   so i have a question if the next iphone [TS]

00:06:04   let's let's just assume it's called an [TS]

00:06:06   iphone eat i'm not saying that's what I [TS]

00:06:07   expect let's just assume for this [TS]

00:06:09   conversation that the next iPhone is the [TS]

00:06:11   iphone aid and let's assume for the sake [TS]

00:06:13   of conversation that it is approximately [TS]

00:06:15   the same size as an iphone 7 physically [TS]

00:06:19   speaking but the screen because of [TS]

00:06:21   smaller bezels or John gazelles however [TS]

00:06:24   is now roughly the size of a 7 plus i [TS]

00:06:28   don't even care if that's like a [TS]

00:06:30   possible physically just for the sake of [TS]

00:06:31   discussion is Mike right if we also get [TS]

00:06:36   these iphone aids that are physically [TS]

00:06:38   the size that we've always used but the [TS]

00:06:41   screen size is the size of a plus is [TS]

00:06:44   Mike right yesterday is it is like the [TS]

00:06:46   TARDIS where it's bigger on the inside [TS]

00:06:48   masters go with that just go with now we [TS]

00:06:50   just go with it is like what if what if [TS]

00:06:53   you could have a bus but it was the size [TS]

00:06:54   of a matchbox compliments your home [TS]

00:06:57   precisely and getting shot know it for [TS]

00:06:59   reference so i have all three phones [TS]

00:07:01   that were talking about right here on my [TS]

00:07:02   desk have been doing this testing and if [TS]

00:07:04   you place the iphone 7 on top of a plus [TS]

00:07:09   phone you can still see the size of the [TS]

00:07:11   plus phone screen sticking out the left [TS]

00:07:13   and right after that up i don't think he [TS]

00:07:16   knows how big losses it's way bigger [TS]

00:07:17   yeah it's a lot bigger [TS]

00:07:19   so yeah that's it's not possible to [TS]

00:07:22   shove the massive screen into the mid [TS]

00:07:23   sized body it is possible to put the [TS]

00:07:26   massive screen into a phone that is less [TS]

00:07:28   massive it would still be a very large [TS]

00:07:31   phone but it would be possible it would [TS]

00:07:35   be more pleasant in the hand it would be [TS]

00:07:37   a little bit smaller and I honestly I [TS]

00:07:40   mean in the number three of us have ever [TS]

00:07:41   asked about my knowledge correct me if [TS]

00:07:43   I'm wrong spent any time with one of [TS]

00:07:45   these like android curved screen edge [TS]

00:07:46   phones [TS]

00:07:47   mhm but but there are you know you can [TS]

00:07:49   look at other phones on the market and [TS]

00:07:51   they they have creative ways to shove [TS]

00:07:54   large screens into at least narrower [TS]

00:07:57   phones and maybe also shorter but [TS]

00:07:59   narrower is usually the the more [TS]

00:08:01   important one and i think i would agree [TS]

00:08:03   with that in the hand narrower is kind [TS]

00:08:05   of more important for whether you can [TS]

00:08:06   reach things with your hand and how it [TS]

00:08:07   fits how you hold it [TS]

00:08:09   but man I just again any like the very [TS]

00:08:13   slightest improvement in size of the big [TS]

00:08:17   one [TS]

00:08:17   I'm getting it you won't be swayed by [TS]

00:08:20   what they're probably going to do which [TS]

00:08:21   is keep these the the seven form factor [TS]

00:08:24   but pulling the margins on that likes [TS]

00:08:26   the same size screen is the seven but [TS]

00:08:28   smaller surround so basically it's [TS]

00:08:29   making it in your hand feel closer to [TS]

00:08:32   the five size you'd still go for the big [TS]

00:08:36   giant phone with its margins pulled in [TS]

00:08:37   as opposed to the the middle phone with [TS]

00:08:39   the Martins pulled in so you're probably [TS]

00:08:42   right that you know that is probably the [TS]

00:08:43   kind of thing they would do like if they [TS]

00:08:44   do one they would probably do both in [TS]

00:08:46   with the same kind of treatment so the [TS]

00:08:50   phone use described which is basically [TS]

00:08:51   like the iphone 8 minus it would be [TS]

00:08:54   really really great feeling in my hand [TS]

00:08:57   however i would have the same problems I [TS]

00:08:59   have with the current six which is 407 [TS]

00:09:02   with this design which is that I just [TS]

00:09:04   keep wanting more screen space and and [TS]

00:09:07   you know all the you know the biggest [TS]

00:09:09   battery in the biggest camera although [TS]

00:09:10   honestly truth be told I have been [TS]

00:09:12   totally fine with the battery on the [TS]

00:09:15   seven agreed and partly because i'm [TS]

00:09:17   doing a lot of iOS development so it's [TS]

00:09:19   plugged in a lot just turning the dick [TS]

00:09:21   but but overall the battery from the [TS]

00:09:24   seven is noticeably better than I wasn't [TS]

00:09:27   a success for me in my real-world use it [TS]

00:09:29   is a substantial difference and so the [TS]

00:09:31   point now where like TIFF and I few [TS]

00:09:35   years ago I ran a lightning cable [TS]

00:09:38   between two segments of our couch so [TS]

00:09:40   that we would just always be able to [TS]

00:09:41   pull between to the cushions we would [TS]

00:09:44   just be able to pull up a cable and plug [TS]

00:09:45   your phone in car charger captions great [TS]

00:09:47   idea and we recently had to replace the [TS]

00:09:49   couch and I haven't even set up the new [TS]

00:09:52   one yet with the charger cable because i [TS]

00:09:53   really like we never really use it [TS]

00:09:54   anymore because tips phone always has [TS]

00:09:57   the giant battery BacPac on it and mine [TS]

00:09:59   is always putting my computer all day [TS]

00:10:00   and what i'm actually using it [TS]

00:10:01   throughout you know they're outside [TS]

00:10:03   world like the battery is actually [TS]

00:10:04   better enough in the 7th the regular [TS]

00:10:07   size seven so that that is you know good [TS]

00:10:10   for them i'm i'm really happy about that [TS]

00:10:12   in in practice and and that's one of the [TS]

00:10:14   reasons why overall i am happier than i [TS]

00:10:17   thought i would be with seven [TS]

00:10:18   that being said I still want the bigger [TS]

00:10:21   screen and whatever the best camera [TS]

00:10:23   is hopefully the next one they can fit [TS]

00:10:24   two image stabilized cameras and [TS]

00:10:27   hopefully the zoomed in one is both [TS]

00:10:28   stabilized and not a meaningful the [TS]

00:10:30   smaller aperture so that would be nice [TS]

00:10:33   but i still do want like the best best [TS]

00:10:36   best of all that stuff because i use my [TS]

00:10:37   phone so heavily for so many things [TS]

00:10:39   throughout the day but our apple doesn't [TS]

00:10:42   make best of anything anymore i know [TS]

00:10:44   that's kind of fucking yeah you gotta [TS]

00:10:46   decide what what asterisks you're [TS]

00:10:49   willing to tolerate that but anyway to [TS]

00:10:51   answer question Jon I should probably I [TS]

00:10:54   should probably just go ahead and get [TS]

00:10:55   the big one next time assuming it is a [TS]

00:10:57   little bit smaller but i would the whole [TS]

00:10:59   time I would have it I would be waffling [TS]

00:11:01   the other direction so yeah you'll hear [TS]

00:11:02   about it [TS]

00:11:03   justjust wait about what about nine [TS]

00:11:05   months and you'll start hearing that is [TS]

00:11:06   like you will buy the bigger one you [TS]

00:11:09   will receive it you will use it for a [TS]

00:11:10   week and then you all then you will keep [TS]

00:11:12   it for testing purposes by a smaller one [TS]

00:11:14   and use it as your phone back maybe I [TS]

00:11:17   just I just want my wonderful seven that [TS]

00:11:20   I'm unreasonably happy with in other [TS]

00:11:21   ways i just wanted to make phone calls [TS]

00:11:24   it's kind of important it is that do you [TS]

00:11:27   think thats related to the Intel do you [TS]

00:11:29   have the Intel chip instead of the [TS]

00:11:30   Qualcomm on the radio i do that's that's [TS]

00:11:33   another thing so i do have a book every [TS]

00:11:35   I think AT&T sold phone i think i think [TS]

00:11:39   all of them except in the u.s. I think [TS]

00:11:41   all of them except the verizon one have [TS]

00:11:43   the Intel one that i thought id never [TS]

00:11:45   make phone calls from right exactly [TS]

00:11:47   so that is also one of my theories is [TS]

00:11:49   that if i said this in to get fixed and [TS]

00:11:51   i buy a new phone in the meantime I [TS]

00:11:53   would buy a verizon unlocked one and [TS]

00:11:55   then just maybe you know as if i get the [TS]

00:11:57   old one back then sell it or something i [TS]

00:12:00   don't know i just want to deal with that [TS]

00:12:01   this is why i haven't got it fixed yet [TS]

00:12:03   has been able to make phone calls while [TS]

00:12:04   since day one but I just like I need my [TS]

00:12:07   phone all the time [TS]

00:12:08   okay Evan there has been a time where I [TS]

00:12:11   want to like you know ship it back and [TS]

00:12:13   be without it for probably at least a [TS]

00:12:14   few days while Apple does whatever to it [TS]

00:12:16   and then it comes back and maybe isn't [TS]

00:12:18   fixed mine has been completely fine and [TS]

00:12:21   errands to the best of my knowledge have [TS]

00:12:23   both been completely fine since we've [TS]

00:12:24   got them are both on AT&T both on iphone [TS]

00:12:26   sevens and they've both been no problem [TS]

00:12:29   at all which i don't i'm not to say that [TS]

00:12:31   you know that's not to say that you're [TS]

00:12:33   wrong or anything obviously your [TS]

00:12:34   experiences your experience but [TS]

00:12:36   it's not a systemic issue with all the [TS]

00:12:38   Intel chips it would seem [TS]

00:12:40   yeah that's what I was wondering was [TS]

00:12:41   like I want this bug or something I'm [TS]

00:12:42   but by the way speaking of like how [TS]

00:12:44   often we use our phones i have my phone [TS]

00:12:45   right here and i can pull up how often I [TS]

00:12:48   it's all calls to send and receive their [TS]

00:12:51   just sent I'm going on the recent call [TS]

00:12:53   section in the all tab that's everything [TS]

00:12:55   right [TS]

00:12:56   I would think so so this is 2017 phone [TS]

00:12:59   calls for me one on the fifth from my [TS]

00:13:03   house spam call on the 12 spam call me [TS]

00:13:06   18 one on Thursday spam call on thursday [TS]

00:13:10   and then one today so that's everything [TS]

00:13:14   in 20 12 through three spam calls and [TS]

00:13:17   three legit calls in 2017 so far it's [TS]

00:13:20   februari don't use my phone I have 52 [TS]

00:13:23   calls in 2017 [TS]

00:13:25   yeah so you're you're feeling the pain [TS]

00:13:27   of a weird microphone a lot more than I [TS]

00:13:29   am you get this 32 33 34 35 36 8 4 [TS]

00:13:33   screen but yeah it's it's somewhere [TS]

00:13:36   between 40 and 50 and and i'm using that [TS]

00:13:38   no more robust thing to like I don't [TS]

00:13:39   know it's I mean it I i'm using it and I [TS]

00:13:42   like the fact that it has caught some [TS]

00:13:44   but I don't like that if you still get [TS]

00:13:47   through [TS]

00:13:47   yeah so iphone 7 overall thumbs up but [TS]

00:13:50   for God's sake I want to make phone [TS]

00:13:51   calls reliably and number also thumbs-up [TS]

00:13:55   big big supporter of that now I tried a [TS]

00:13:58   lot of the call blocking things numero [TS]

00:14:01   was the best i think it's like two bucks [TS]

00:14:03   a month some kind of subscription price [TS]

00:14:04   but it's worth it [TS]

00:14:05   do it value well why would i would pay [TS]

00:14:08   more if it worked better and although i [TS]

00:14:09   still have high on here which was the [TS]

00:14:11   one I was using before which as you [TS]

00:14:12   point out marker like doesn't work as [TS]

00:14:14   annoying as evil because highlights you [TS]

00:14:16   look up numbers so when one of them gets [TS]

00:14:19   through and I don't answer it because [TS]

00:14:21   why would I I want to know is the spam [TS]

00:14:23   call and I can just you know go too high [TS]

00:14:25   and paste in the number it's as though [TS]

00:14:26   you 9 out of 10 people reported this is [TS]

00:14:29   spam and I know you know yeah I mean [TS]

00:14:31   like I i I've had no my Robo miss spam [TS]

00:14:34   calls a couple of times in the last few [TS]

00:14:36   days but overall it's been very solid [TS]

00:14:39   because when i'm not running a blocker [TS]

00:14:41   of some sort i get roughly wanted a [TS]

00:14:44   maybe [TS]

00:14:45   really yeah for the last couple years [TS]

00:14:47   I've gotten like almost wanted a maybe [TS]

00:14:49   maybe it's more like 45 a week so it's [TS]

00:14:51   like not quite one today but in that [TS]

00:14:53   ballpark and I had higher block 0 of [TS]

00:14:56   them ever i ran for like two months and [TS]

00:14:58   then i have i've had no robot now for a [TS]

00:15:01   couple of weeks and I have gotten i [TS]

00:15:03   think one or two in like two weeks or so [TS]

00:15:07   i'll put a link to Marco's article about [TS]

00:15:09   this in the show notes because it's hard [TS]

00:15:11   to understand the name of these things [TS]

00:15:13   we're saying hi present the word high [TS]

00:15:15   and then yeah short free for you hiyaa [TS]

00:15:18   and then Nomo robo is no more robocalls [TS]

00:15:22   but it's a no mor OBO all onward yeah [TS]

00:15:25   anyway like the blog post all the stuff [TS]

00:15:26   is linked it just sounds like we're [TS]

00:15:28   gonna force a made-up words but there's [TS]

00:15:29   a relapse [TS]

00:15:31   welcome to the happening it's like you [TS]

00:15:33   know web two point O site naming where [TS]

00:15:35   you had to like to spell everything [TS]

00:15:37   because it's LOL its it's like flickr [TS]

00:15:39   without the E and yeah I don't know who [TS]

00:15:42   also named sites like that [TS]

00:15:44   yeah who would then we respond to this [TS]

00:15:47   week by a way for twenty dollars off [TS]

00:15:49   your order visit away travel.com / ATP [TS]

00:15:52   and use promo code ATP during checkout [TS]

00:15:54   they make incredibly smartly designed [TS]

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00:16:25   maneuver it easily and also they have a [TS]

00:16:27   built-in laundry bag for your dirty [TS]

00:16:28   laundry so as you're out some out [TS]

00:16:30   somewhere you travel you get to know [TS]

00:16:32   your you wear clothes you stuff mr. [TS]

00:16:34   laundry back when you're done you don't [TS]

00:16:35   have to like me like the pile of dirty [TS]

00:16:36   clothes in the hotel or whatever that [TS]

00:16:38   that's gross [TS]

00:16:39   use the built-in back it's so convenient [TS]

00:16:40   and you might have heard about it a [TS]

00:16:42   clinical teacher they have they have a [TS]

00:16:44   built-in battery in the carry-on model [TS]

00:16:46   so you can charge your cell phone your [TS]

00:16:48   tablet readers anything powered by USB a [TS]

00:16:51   single charge of the away carry on will [TS]

00:16:53   charge your phone 5 times it's just so [TS]

00:16:56   smart why doesn't everyone do this they [TS]

00:16:58   are truly designed for the modern age [TS]

00:17:00   they also of course back it up they have [TS]

00:17:02   a lifetime warr [TS]

00:17:03   what if anything breaks they fix or [TS]

00:17:04   replace it for life and you can see for [TS]

00:17:07   yourself with a hundred day trial live [TS]

00:17:10   with it you can even travel with it this [TS]

00:17:12   is how you test the suitcase [TS]

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00:17:24   they're just that great so check it out [TS]

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00:17:40   during checkout to see really modern [TS]

00:17:43   intelligent design luggage once again [TS]

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00:17:48   twenty bucks off thank you very much too [TS]

00:17:51   away for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:17:52   ah alright so let's start with some [TS]

00:17:57   follow-up if you can claim starting this [TS]

00:17:59   late from most important piece of [TS]

00:18:03   follow-up that I think we have which is [TS]

00:18:04   not in the list which makes John oh so [TS]

00:18:06   happy when i go off off off schedule [TS]

00:18:08   like this [TS]

00:18:09   I've heard a lot of feedback about my [TS]

00:18:11   shower habits and i have heard one piece [TS]

00:18:15   is the feedback that has disagreed with [TS]

00:18:17   me and said I am a barbarian for [TS]

00:18:20   showering at night and overwhelming [TS]

00:18:23   amount of feedback [TS]

00:18:24   probably because we've we've been hiding [TS]

00:18:26   in the shadows for all these years [TS]

00:18:27   ashamed that are at our own peculiar [TS]

00:18:30   ways dozens of us doesn't doesn't sound [TS]

00:18:33   like something with an overwhelming [TS]

00:18:34   amount of feedback including many people [TS]

00:18:36   making that same reference i have said [TS]

00:18:38   it is absolutely the only way to go [TS]

00:18:41   you must shower at night it is [TS]

00:18:42   disgusting to shower during during the [TS]

00:18:45   morning time and many people wrote in to [TS]

00:18:48   say i wanted i should've kept notes but [TS]

00:18:51   i believe was Japan it's just culturally [TS]

00:18:53   the way they do it is to shower at night [TS]

00:18:57   forgive news like every country outside [TS]

00:18:58   the united states like how are [TS]

00:19:00   characterized the feedback was well [TS]

00:19:02   first of all still the vast majority of [TS]

00:19:04   the entire United States against kc and [TS]

00:19:06   they didn't write in because the silent [TS]

00:19:07   majority right probably true but [TS]

00:19:09   basically every other person wrote and [TS]

00:19:11   said in insert country that's not not [TS]

00:19:13   the United States everybody either [TS]

00:19:15   showers at night Sheriff [TS]

00:19:17   twice a day nobody wrote in from other [TS]

00:19:18   countries and said all we all shower in [TS]

00:19:20   the morning because maybe there's some [TS]

00:19:21   majority to but lots of people from many [TS]

00:19:23   different countries in Europe South [TS]

00:19:24   America Asia everywhere there are like [TS]

00:19:27   all we totally shower night but United [TS]

00:19:28   States nothing from them together okay [TS]

00:19:30   she's crazy and so they just let him be [TS]

00:19:32   there also were clear trends where [TS]

00:19:35   hotter countries would more often do it [TS]

00:19:38   and also it seemed more prevalent in [TS]

00:19:40   Asia other places [TS]

00:19:41   yeah there's some people point out the [TS]

00:19:43   farther you get from Europe the more [TS]

00:19:44   showers people take someone who lives in [TS]

00:19:48   South America but ya know I'm hello [TS]

00:19:52   I didn't think it was anything up to [TS]

00:19:54   follow up and I think we thought we [TS]

00:19:55   covered all the bases but since Casey [TS]

00:19:56   insists on bringing out 10 here we go [TS]

00:19:59   one point that nobody brought out the [TS]

00:20:01   last time is like what i think is the [TS]

00:20:03   obvious reason which again was instated [TS]

00:20:04   because we all know cases the outlier [TS]

00:20:06   here that the people shower in the [TS]

00:20:07   morning is gets back to the the dilbert [TS]

00:20:10   comic strip with after your shower to [TS]

00:20:11   clean his object in your house right so [TS]

00:20:13   after your shower that's the claims [TS]

00:20:14   you're going to get you're just gonna [TS]

00:20:15   get sweaty or during the day if you [TS]

00:20:17   shower in the morning your interactions [TS]

00:20:19   with other people for your day for 925 [TS]

00:20:21   day present you at the cleanest because [TS]

00:20:24   you go for maximal cleanness slowly [TS]

00:20:26   degrading until five o'clock right those [TS]

00:20:28   are the best hours you give them the [TS]

00:20:29   hours here with that you know you're [TS]

00:20:31   working with other people if you shower [TS]

00:20:33   at night [TS]

00:20:34   you've got a good solid eight hours [TS]

00:20:35   sweating your bed before you meet the [TS]

00:20:37   first person the next day for work so [TS]

00:20:38   that's the obvious morning shower thing [TS]

00:20:40   and I'm assuming that's why everybody in [TS]

00:20:41   America showers in the morning you know [TS]

00:20:42   John there's these magical devices [TS]

00:20:44   they're called air conditioners and you [TS]

00:20:48   can turn them on and conditions vehicles [TS]

00:20:51   no because no one sweats at night at the [TS]

00:20:53   room is the right temperature something [TS]

00:20:55   like that I have some bad news for you / [TS]

00:20:58   your wife as you age about night sweats [TS]

00:21:04   John I love having the old man on the [TS]

00:21:07   show to keep us keep us in check i love [TS]

00:21:09   how like this week like everyone else is [TS]

00:21:11   talking about apple earnings and we're [TS]

00:21:13   talking about showers again we'll get [TS]

00:21:15   there [TS]

00:21:16   that's just follow up in kc added this I [TS]

00:21:18   didn't have it [TS]

00:21:18   the notes case you wanted to bring it on [TS]

00:21:20   it's digging his own grave [TS]

00:21:21   john loves it when I just throw [TS]

00:21:23   something in at the last second chances [TS]

00:21:25   favorite also i'm going to rearrange the [TS]

00:21:27   show notes aspartame is a artificial [TS]

00:21:29   sweetener and Diet Coke not sucralose i [TS]

00:21:31   don't personally care whatever it is [TS]

00:21:33   it's freaking delicious and it was it [TS]

00:21:35   was mark over we got a wrong like [TS]

00:21:37   complaining about artificial sweeteners [TS]

00:21:38   I I knew exactly i knew that already but [TS]

00:21:39   it just it doesn't really like but I [TS]

00:21:41   didn't and it doesn't really matter it's [TS]

00:21:43   like the concept of an artificial [TS]

00:21:44   sweetener I made some reference to like [TS]

00:21:46   it causing cancer and of course then we [TS]

00:21:48   heard from everybody about how it does [TS]

00:21:50   it doesn't cause cancer and chemical [TS]

00:21:51   does or doesn't it doesn't but you're [TS]

00:21:53   making a joke I I took it as a joke but [TS]

00:21:56   i was able to get seriously which is [TS]

00:21:57   worth when I was making adjustments [TS]

00:21:58   that's not that's not a real thing don't [TS]

00:22:00   be afraid you should be afraid perhaps [TS]

00:22:02   of weight gain and some relation of [TS]

00:22:06   diabetes from drinking diet sodas lots [TS]

00:22:08   of studies in that like how could I so [TS]

00:22:10   cause you to gain weight 60 calories and [TS]

00:22:12   how does that have anything to do with [TS]

00:22:13   diabetes with lots of studies around [TS]

00:22:15   that that do indicate there might be [TS]

00:22:17   something concerned about the cancer not [TS]

00:22:18   so much i mean in general training [TS]

00:22:21   yourself and your palate to not need all [TS]

00:22:24   of your drinks to be sweetened is always [TS]

00:22:27   a good thing because like basically like [TS]

00:22:30   you know for for purposes of like [TS]

00:22:31   calorie and sugar control the stupidest [TS]

00:22:34   thing you could possibly do is drink a [TS]

00:22:36   lot of calories like it's just the tear [TS]

00:22:38   it works so much against you is so [TS]

00:22:39   incredibly bad for you so like anything [TS]

00:22:42   that conditions you two still want all [TS]

00:22:43   your drinks to be sweet probably works [TS]

00:22:45   against you in that well in that way [TS]

00:22:47   even if one of the things you drink a [TS]

00:22:49   zero calorie sweetener [TS]

00:22:50   yeah I don't know it still tastes [TS]

00:22:52   delicious and I'm good with that REM [TS]

00:22:54   cove and abandoned Basra rights in to [TS]

00:22:56   say once iOS 10.3 comes out [TS]

00:23:00   do you think it will be worth restoring [TS]

00:23:01   my iphone from scratch to get more a PFS [TS]

00:23:04   benefits and then he he he or she they [TS]

00:23:08   talked for a while about the HP HFS to a [TS]

00:23:12   PFS conversion you know is that good is [TS]

00:23:14   that bad [TS]

00:23:15   John as our resident filesystem expert [TS]

00:23:18   what do you think so what he's asking [TS]

00:23:21   about i think is like if you leave all [TS]

00:23:23   the data where it is just right all the [TS]

00:23:25   metadata [TS]

00:23:25   to new places maybe you have files that [TS]

00:23:27   are fragmented and other stuff like that [TS]

00:23:28   i'm not even sure if by the way hfs+ on [TS]

00:23:31   iOS does the auto defragmenting stuff [TS]

00:23:33   that they they added two hrs + years ago [TS]

00:23:36   like where we'll find files below a [TS]

00:23:38   certain size that are overly fragmented [TS]

00:23:39   in its spare time defragment them and [TS]

00:23:41   stuff but so was asking like would it be [TS]

00:23:45   better [TS]

00:23:46   ideally speaking to wipe your whole [TS]

00:23:49   phone reformatted days there's a PFS and [TS]

00:23:51   refill it with your data so that you [TS]

00:23:54   have fewer fragmented files and in [TS]

00:23:57   theory i think you could potentially get [TS]

00:24:01   a nicer less fragmented layout but I [TS]

00:24:08   don't think it would be anything that [TS]

00:24:09   you would notice and i think it actually [TS]

00:24:11   even be hard to measure because flash is [TS]

00:24:13   not a spinning disk and random access is [TS]

00:24:16   faster on flash than it is on spinning [TS]

00:24:19   disks and fragmentation even if they [TS]

00:24:23   don't have the auto defragment stuff [TS]

00:24:24   that's part of HFS plus it's probably [TS]

00:24:27   not that big of a concern so I don't I [TS]

00:24:30   think you would get some benefit that [TS]

00:24:34   maybe took great pains to measure it and [TS]

00:24:35   had a really threshold and compared it [TS]

00:24:37   with a fresh one you would see but it's [TS]

00:24:39   definitely not worth people doing so [TS]

00:24:41   just let convert in place it and it'll [TS]

00:24:43   be fine [TS]

00:24:44   so that's that's my advice cool [TS]

00:24:47   oh and there's a question about whether [TS]

00:24:50   a PFS will be open source like hfs+ is [TS]

00:24:52   kinda sorta and what Apple has said [TS]

00:24:56   about that is they're going to document [TS]

00:25:00   the board they say the volume format [TS]

00:25:03   yeah the volume specification so they're [TS]

00:25:06   going to put a document for that that's [TS]

00:25:07   not the source code that's just like [TS]

00:25:08   telling you hey here's how the bits are [TS]

00:25:10   discs and all they say is an open-source [TS]

00:25:12   implementation is not available at this [TS]

00:25:14   time didn't say anything about the [TS]

00:25:16   future but who knows [TS]

00:25:17   I so basically somebody else could [TS]

00:25:19   theoretically make a third party tool or [TS]

00:25:22   driver to at least read aps volumes and [TS]

00:25:25   probably also write them but you [TS]

00:25:28   probably wouldn't want to rely on it [TS]

00:25:29   kind of like the whole like mac on [TS]

00:25:31   windows and ntfs on Matt kind of things [TS]

00:25:33   right [TS]

00:25:33   yeah I'm like that you can see the HFS [TS]

00:25:35   plus code which is you know very helpful [TS]

00:25:37   for all my [TS]

00:25:38   most interviews like it's all in the [TS]

00:25:39   Darwin source repository but a PFS I'm [TS]

00:25:43   not sure there's a big benefit to them [TS]

00:25:45   open sourcing because it's not like I'm [TS]

00:25:47   like Swift I don't think they want a PFS [TS]

00:25:48   take over the world instead I think they [TS]

00:25:50   wanted to be a custom-tailored operators [TS]

00:25:51   isn't just for their devices that [TS]

00:25:53   they're free to change in any way they [TS]

00:25:54   want and I bet they will [TS]

00:25:56   and I don't know if anybody else has the [TS]

00:25:58   exact needs that Apple has like if you [TS]

00:26:00   look at the features of aps they are [TS]

00:26:03   exist including the ones that are you [TS]

00:26:05   know fancy new features all the other [TS]

00:26:08   features like having like / file [TS]

00:26:09   encryption keys and forgoing a lot of [TS]

00:26:12   these ETFs data integrity features and [TS]

00:26:14   stuff are so tailored to apple specific [TS]

00:26:16   needs because it needs that encryption [TS]

00:26:17   stuff for what it already doesn't iOS [TS]

00:26:19   outside the file system now and it can't [TS]

00:26:21   have the heavyweight stuff because I [TS]

00:26:22   asked around and watch and like I don't [TS]

00:26:24   know anyone else has those exact needs [TS]

00:26:26   so it's not really a general-purpose pc [TS]

00:26:28   your server file system it is a specific [TS]

00:26:32   purpose Apple file system has its name [TS]

00:26:34   awkwardly implies response to this week [TS]

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00:27:02   you might think I don't have time to [TS]

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00:27:06   how much into that but you'd be [TS]

00:27:08   surprised how many audio books you can [TS]

00:27:10   read each year even if you only listen [TS]

00:27:12   to and from work every day because all [TS]

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00:27:56   a free 30-day trial [TS]

00:27:57   thanks to audible for sponsoring our [TS]

00:27:59   show ah so just was yesterday as we [TS]

00:28:05   record apple announced their what is [TS]

00:28:08   first-quarter earnings if I get this [TS]

00:28:10   right i believe that's right [TS]

00:28:12   so things are going well as it turns out [TS]

00:28:17   will link to a summary by Jason smell at [TS]

00:28:21   six colors and as long as you don't like [TS]

00:28:24   the ipad things are mostly okay i don't [TS]

00:28:29   know i don't really have a lot to add on [TS]

00:28:31   this I've been really busy so I haven't [TS]

00:28:32   dug into this deeply Marco any thoughts [TS]

00:28:35   on this [TS]

00:28:36   I mean I think it's probably best that [TS]

00:28:38   we leave most of the discussion of this [TS]

00:28:40   to other podcast with people who do this [TS]

00:28:42   kind of like business he type of [TS]

00:28:44   reporting more often but for the most [TS]

00:28:47   part it is it is useful to just see [TS]

00:28:50   general trends of how things are going [TS]

00:28:52   for Apple even if we aren't directly [TS]

00:28:55   investing in ourselves or care about the [TS]

00:28:57   stock price like a night I used to have [TS]

00:28:59   apple stock of a couple years ago at [TS]

00:29:01   least if not more but I i have since [TS]

00:29:05   stopped buying and selling any [TS]

00:29:06   individual stocks and sold off all the [TS]

00:29:08   ones i had and now I just invest if [TS]

00:29:10   you're like mutual funds and things like [TS]

00:29:11   that that might have it but I'm not [TS]

00:29:13   directly investing so that's a [TS]

00:29:14   disclosure there and honestly I think [TS]

00:29:16   it's just a friend to friend here this [TS]

00:29:18   is not investment advice whatever [TS]

00:29:20   whatever however I think investing [TS]

00:29:21   individual stocks with a substantial [TS]

00:29:23   portion of your money is is a fool's [TS]

00:29:25   game anyway I think looking at it as [TS]

00:29:28   general trends for apple and as Apple [TS]

00:29:31   watchers and Apple fans it is useful to [TS]

00:29:33   see like these kind of numbers are what [TS]

00:29:35   Tim Cook is graded on by the board by [TS]

00:29:38   investors and so it [TS]

00:29:40   optimizing for these numbers is a large [TS]

00:29:43   part of of cooks goals you know whether [TS]

00:29:46   whether he has other goals or you know [TS]

00:29:48   it's for product quality and new [TS]

00:29:51   initiatives things like that that you [TS]

00:29:53   know that's all you know [TS]

00:29:54   Vega nobles to the balance there however [TS]

00:29:56   we do know for sure that it is very [TS]

00:29:58   important that Tim Cook keeps these [TS]

00:30:00   numbers looking healthy for the board [TS]

00:30:02   for investors and that does drive [TS]

00:30:05   product [TS]

00:30:05   decisions on some level again like [TS]

00:30:07   whether it's like a high priority in his [TS]

00:30:08   mind we can't know that's up to him but [TS]

00:30:12   it is useful to pay attention to what's [TS]

00:30:14   going on here to see trends in what's [TS]

00:30:17   working for apple and what's not working [TS]

00:30:20   for apple and where they need growth and [TS]

00:30:23   that can help inform our predictions and [TS]

00:30:27   our opinions and and our interpretations [TS]

00:30:29   of what Apple does so you know in in [TS]

00:30:32   these earnings the iphones doing great [TS]

00:30:35   it seems like it has kind of recovered [TS]

00:30:37   from the weird boost and then slight dip [TS]

00:30:40   that it had with the seemingly like [TS]

00:30:43   related to the massive success of the [TS]

00:30:45   iphone 6 and 6 plus it seems like its [TS]

00:30:48   kind of back on a regular track now of [TS]

00:30:50   steady growth so that's good for the [TS]

00:30:52   iphone the iphone seems like it's fine [TS]

00:30:54   that's good for good for it the mac [TS]

00:30:57   division is probably the least [TS]

00:30:58   interesting it's up a little bit but [TS]

00:31:00   it's within within normal realm so max [TS]

00:31:02   seems like steady healthy not set her on [TS]

00:31:05   fire and that's to be expected after a [TS]

00:31:07   year of having very few Mac releases [TS]

00:31:09   then in his quarters when the new [TS]

00:31:11   macbook pros became available so that [TS]

00:31:13   helped boost those for sure you can see [TS]

00:31:14   that in the graphs and like things like [TS]

00:31:16   average selling price and everything [TS]

00:31:17   because he ever selling pressure the [TS]

00:31:20   back took a big hike up words [TS]

00:31:22   that's not a coincidence in the quarter [TS]

00:31:24   in which they release a whole bunch of [TS]

00:31:25   more expensive laptops that were [TS]

00:31:28   significantly more expensive than what [TS]

00:31:29   they replaced that is probably one of [TS]

00:31:30   the reasons why to make that up a little [TS]

00:31:33   bit services are doing really well their [TS]

00:31:37   services revenue is up by a good amount [TS]

00:31:39   that's interesting because like that it [TS]

00:31:43   seems like that is that is a major part [TS]

00:31:45   of their of their future growth that [TS]

00:31:47   they're going to want to boost up so [TS]

00:31:49   that might include things like you know [TS]

00:31:51   maybe we're not going to see a whole [TS]

00:31:52   bunch of Cheaper iCloud storage this [TS]

00:31:55   coming fall or summer or whatever else [TS]

00:31:57   maybe we are going to see more ways that [TS]

00:31:59   we can give Apple money every month more [TS]

00:32:01   services more premium tears things like [TS]

00:32:03   that displays into things like what [TS]

00:32:05   Apple music is doing and they're there [TS]

00:32:07   possible video efforts that they're [TS]

00:32:08   hinting at or or saying very little [TS]

00:32:10   about things like that so expect to see [TS]

00:32:13   Apple because services of the wine is [TS]

00:32:15   going up and is now a decent number [TS]

00:32:16   expect to see Apple [TS]

00:32:19   putting more into services and trying to [TS]

00:32:22   make more from us from services so you [TS]

00:32:25   know Tim Cook is really good at this [TS]

00:32:26   he's really good at taking existing [TS]

00:32:28   market that's doing pretty well and [TS]

00:32:30   turning the screws so they make more [TS]

00:32:32   from each person that's why the iphones [TS]

00:32:34   now have two sizes and one of them cost [TS]

00:32:36   a hundred bucks more than the other one [TS]

00:32:37   and all the based or just stuck for so [TS]

00:32:39   long because Tim Cook is really good at [TS]

00:32:42   pushing the average selling prices up up [TS]

00:32:44   to try to make more money from each new [TS]

00:32:45   person that's why things like you know [TS]

00:32:47   ipad cases are so much more expensive [TS]

00:32:50   than they were in that the two parts and [TS]

00:32:51   all this studying you have like a [TS]

00:32:53   hundred our battery back for the iphone [TS]

00:32:54   now and all these different things you [TS]

00:32:56   know this this is why i like you know it [TS]

00:32:58   wasn't an accident and this is [TS]

00:33:00   definitely why the new macbook pros cost [TS]

00:33:03   so much more than doubles anyway so [TS]

00:33:05   expect to see tightening the screws and [TS]

00:33:07   boosts in the services area so we're [TS]

00:33:09   probably going to see again more ways we [TS]

00:33:12   can spend money on Apple every month [TS]

00:33:14   coming this fall or summer whatever else [TS]

00:33:16   and then the other thing is the ipad and [TS]

00:33:19   the ipad is down again and not by a [TS]

00:33:24   small amount either it's it's still [TS]

00:33:26   going to be efficiently down [TS]

00:33:28   it's kind of hard to explain [TS]

00:33:31   everyone has their own theories everyone [TS]

00:33:33   has you know some people say Apple is [TS]

00:33:35   not telling the right story whatever [TS]

00:33:38   that means I I honestly don't really get [TS]

00:33:40   that argument to be some people say that [TS]

00:33:43   that I've had just last so long and and [TS]

00:33:47   therefore people don't replace them very [TS]

00:33:48   often and some people think that the [TS]

00:33:51   ipad is so is a flop in some way and [TS]

00:33:54   that nobody likes tablets anymore i [TS]

00:33:57   think the truth is probably a [TS]

00:33:58   combination of all of these things and I [TS]

00:34:01   guess we were probably going to talk [TS]

00:34:02   more about that for the rest of the show [TS]

00:34:04   so i will move on from that for now and [TS]

00:34:07   then the watch is kind of buried [TS]

00:34:09   somewhere and other and we don't have [TS]

00:34:11   any numbers about the watch [TS]

00:34:12   except Tim Cook says it was the best [TS]

00:34:14   quarter ever for the watch so good on a [TS]

00:34:17   business chart that is now the highest [TS]

00:34:19   bar on access that has no label so good [TS]

00:34:23   for the Apple watch their their quote [TS]

00:34:26   other revenue that the Apple watch is [TS]

00:34:27   buried in didn't take a huge jump so I [TS]

00:34:30   don't it doesn't seem to get into making [TS]

00:34:32   it moving new [TS]

00:34:32   watch on revenue for the company but oh [TS]

00:34:34   well we are analysts maybe I'm missing [TS]

00:34:35   something there but you know it's [TS]

00:34:37   probably doing fine we just make the [TS]

00:34:40   services thing is awesome doom-and-gloom [TS]

00:34:41   about like go look at their services are [TS]

00:34:43   growing there for apples not gonna lower [TS]

00:34:45   prices on iCloud storage i got that will [TS]

00:34:47   make the connection at all like services [TS]

00:34:48   is all about getting more people to pay [TS]

00:34:50   apple on a recurring basis for something [TS]

00:34:52   anything one way to do that is to lower [TS]

00:34:54   the price because if you can lower the [TS]

00:34:56   price by half but getting more than [TS]

00:34:57   double the number of people to sign up [TS]

00:34:59   for it then it works out and as a lot of [TS]

00:35:02   things buried in services not just you [TS]

00:35:03   know when you say services a lot of [TS]

00:35:05   people think you just mean I cloud or [TS]

00:35:06   like the app stores in there which is [TS]

00:35:08   one of the reasons everything is going [TS]

00:35:09   out then Apple music which is has been [TS]

00:35:12   back filling for the itunes music store [TS]

00:35:16   downloads that sort of disappeared many [TS]

00:35:17   years ago and now they're you know [TS]

00:35:19   apples finally getting to streaming and [TS]

00:35:20   it's the idea that Apple has all these [TS]

00:35:22   customers [TS]

00:35:23   surely there's some way Apple can [TS]

00:35:25   monetize them by making them pay some [TS]

00:35:28   small amount for each one of these [TS]

00:35:29   little things and trying to get kinda [TS]

00:35:33   like the original video content doing it [TS]

00:35:34   by attaching the original video content [TS]

00:35:36   to Apple music that basically is trying [TS]

00:35:38   to get more people to sign a problem [TS]

00:35:39   music why because I think once they get [TS]

00:35:40   you on the Apple music thing you're just [TS]

00:35:42   used to having all the music helps you [TS]

00:35:43   you just keep paying this month after [TS]

00:35:45   month and I think to entice more people [TS]

00:35:48   to like you know how many people pay for [TS]

00:35:51   iCloud storage whatever the percentage [TS]

00:35:52   is now if it's not really really high [TS]

00:35:55   like a ninety-percent Apple must be [TS]

00:35:57   thinking we could get more people to pay [TS]

00:35:59   for iCloud storage [TS]

00:36:00   let me look at what the numbers are [TS]

00:36:01   actually we've been overcharging by [TS]

00:36:02   ridiculous amount as everybody knows [TS]

00:36:04   when compared to other cloud vendors why [TS]

00:36:06   don't we just bumped that or lower the [TS]

00:36:08   price or both and then we'll get more [TS]

00:36:10   people on board and by the way let's [TS]

00:36:12   attach some original video content [TS]

00:36:13   iCloud storage and she don't like that [TS]

00:36:15   that the things they're willing to do to [TS]

00:36:17   get to entice people to sign up for in [TS]

00:36:20   our online pearls another eel are [TS]

00:36:22   boundless and seemingly don't have to be [TS]

00:36:25   that well related because the idea of [TS]

00:36:28   offering exclusive like essentially [TS]

00:36:30   television video content to get people [TS]

00:36:33   to sign up for Apple music doesn't make [TS]

00:36:35   any sense except that hey if there's [TS]

00:36:37   something you want and the only way to [TS]

00:36:39   get it is to do this you'll do it like [TS]

00:36:40   its sole reason people sign up for [TS]

00:36:43   amazon prime's they can watch man in the [TS]

00:36:44   high castle [TS]

00:36:45   what is man [TS]

00:36:46   cast off to do with getting free [TS]

00:36:47   shipping from amazon com four rolls of [TS]

00:36:49   toilet paper [TS]

00:36:49   nothing but you'll do what it takes to [TS]

00:36:52   get the content right and this is this [TS]

00:36:54   is a weird deal but people have shown [TS]

00:36:56   that it works if you give them something [TS]

00:36:58   they want they will sign up for [TS]

00:36:59   something they don't want just to get [TS]

00:37:00   the thing about how i did it i sign up [TS]

00:37:01   for YouTube red just so i could or i [TS]

00:37:03   sent for google play music just like at [TS]

00:37:05   YouTube red on a family plan i don't use [TS]

00:37:07   google play music I don't get sitting on [TS]

00:37:09   my phone but I never actually launched [TS]

00:37:10   it is just so I don't you see ads on [TS]

00:37:12   YouTube it's a tried-and-true technique [TS]

00:37:14   which is not ideal for consumers [TS]

00:37:16   perspective but people love recurring [TS]

00:37:19   revenue [TS]

00:37:19   yeah i mean i i'm slightly surprised [TS]

00:37:25   wilton I'll guess I'll stick with it i'm [TS]

00:37:27   slightly surprised that things are going [TS]

00:37:29   over all is well as they are I mean [TS]

00:37:32   obviously on this show we've talked a [TS]

00:37:36   lot about how we feel like things are [TS]

00:37:39   not the way they once were and i think [TS]

00:37:42   the three of us have varying degrees of [TS]

00:37:45   how dire everything maybe but I mean [TS]

00:37:48   this was their best quarter ever i mean [TS]

00:37:50   i'm looking at the very first chart on [TS]

00:37:51   Jason Snell's post and the the most [TS]

00:37:56   recent quarter or 78.4 billion and the [TS]

00:38:00   nearest one was the prior holiday [TS]

00:38:03   quarter or first-quarter I guess which [TS]

00:38:05   is over the holidays which was seventy [TS]

00:38:07   five point nine billion so i mean that's [TS]

00:38:10   that's what two-and-a-half billion [TS]

00:38:11   dollars different something like that i [TS]

00:38:12   mean that's a big difference in things [TS]

00:38:14   are split up percentage-wise look at the [TS]

00:38:16   slopes on this graph like gravel growth [TS]

00:38:17   is still slow especially look at the [TS]

00:38:19   year-over-year revenue like the reason [TS]

00:38:21   this is a big deal because they're [TS]

00:38:22   coming out of three consecutive negative [TS]

00:38:23   year-over-year revenue growth quarters [TS]

00:38:26   it's like a we're back we're back in the [TS]

00:38:27   black we're back positive we made more [TS]

00:38:29   money in this quarter this year than we [TS]

00:38:30   did last year but you can kind of see if [TS]

00:38:33   you look at those if you look like [TS]

00:38:34   especially the big holiday quarters 46 [TS]

00:38:36   5457 the slope of that line versus 74 75 [TS]

00:38:40   78 right yesterday bro that growth is [TS]

00:38:43   still slowing an apple right and that's [TS]

00:38:45   something they have to deal with but i [TS]

00:38:47   mean i think is in line with everything [TS]

00:38:49   we said on the show we've just been [TS]

00:38:50   disproportionately focused on our [TS]

00:38:52   dissatisfaction with the macbook when we [TS]

00:38:54   all were asked to pick what is your [TS]

00:38:55   favorite apple product this year I [TS]

00:38:57   didn't we all pick the iphone 7 [TS]

00:38:59   I think so although now i would say air [TS]

00:39:02   pods but at the time when like when we [TS]

00:39:04   are maybe you'd say our part don't know [TS]

00:39:05   but I think Marco I the very least the [TS]

00:39:07   iphone 7 iphone 7 is a great phone and [TS]

00:39:09   it doesn't surprise me that it sold well [TS]

00:39:11   you know headphone jack whatever it is [TS]

00:39:13   is a is a good phone is a tried-and-true [TS]

00:39:15   think it's it's the third attempt at the [TS]

00:39:17   same form factor it has better battery [TS]

00:39:19   life they you know they worked out all [TS]

00:39:22   the issues they could possibly work out [TS]

00:39:23   the the weird home button and the [TS]

00:39:25   waterproofing and I like everything [TS]

00:39:27   about it is a good phone and I've always [TS]

00:39:29   said they've you know they're doing very [TS]

00:39:30   well in the phone space and because if [TS]

00:39:33   you look at the giant pacman chart and [TS]

00:39:34   you see the little do the pacman shape [TS]

00:39:36   wedge it is the iphone eating the rest [TS]

00:39:38   of Apple's products if the phone does [TS]

00:39:40   well Apple does well and that totally [TS]

00:39:42   Dwarfs any but whatever the ipad some [TS]

00:39:45   sort of problems there that's lost in [TS]

00:39:46   the noise service revenue keeps going up [TS]

00:39:48   and the mac continues doing what it does [TS]

00:39:51   and that the little hike in the graph [TS]

00:39:52   like a mac SP is going up because I [TS]

00:39:55   cranked up the price of the max it's [TS]

00:39:56   like the old macbook for the past few [TS]

00:39:58   years it's been like produce pent-up [TS]

00:40:00   demand by not releasing new computers [TS]

00:40:02   and then whatever the hell you release [TS]

00:40:04   people will buy and if what you release [TS]

00:40:06   is 500 bucks more than used to be your [TS]

00:40:09   isp's will go up so it's not i don't [TS]

00:40:11   think that's a healthy situation that's [TS]

00:40:12   what happened [TS]

00:40:13   yeah yeah and i like it like Marcus I [TS]

00:40:16   don't know how much more analysis we [TS]

00:40:17   should really be doing on this but I'm [TS]

00:40:19   sad about the ipad it's funny I'm I [TS]

00:40:22   don't know if we've talked about this on [TS]

00:40:23   the show I don't think so but I've been [TS]

00:40:26   flirting with the idea of getting a [TS]

00:40:30   macbook adorable whenever the presumably [TS]

00:40:33   pending refresh happens although with [TS]

00:40:35   these with the way Apple as these days i [TS]

00:40:37   guess i should never assume refresh is [TS]

00:40:38   coming but i know i i'm i really love my [TS]

00:40:43   my ipad mini and I have the most modern [TS]

00:40:47   one which was brand-new or nearly brand [TS]

00:40:49   new not this past Christmas with [TS]

00:40:51   Christmas prior i really love my ipad [TS]

00:40:55   mini i really like that form factor i [TS]

00:40:56   know a lot of people don't that's fine [TS]

00:40:57   but i can't help personally but feel [TS]

00:41:04   like anytime I want to do anything like [TS]

00:41:06   look at twitter and I don't want to get [TS]

00:41:08   into like the consumption versus [TS]

00:41:09   creation to be but anytime I want to do [TS]

00:41:11   anything other than [TS]

00:41:12   glance at twitter RSS or something like [TS]

00:41:14   that I feel like I'm fighting the device [TS]

00:41:16   i feel like i'm fighting iOS and so I've [TS]

00:41:19   really been debating you know maybe a [TS]

00:41:21   macbook adorable would be a better fix [TS]

00:41:25   for this problem because it would also [TS]

00:41:27   be very portable not as portable but [TS]

00:41:30   very portable and it would do everything [TS]

00:41:34   a man could do maybe not as fast as [TS]

00:41:38   other max but that's why i have a 5k [TS]

00:41:39   that i'm speaking on right now and it [TS]

00:41:42   would it would probably be a really good [TS]

00:41:44   compromise and somebody tweeted I think [TS]

00:41:46   earlier today and I don't recall who was [TS]

00:41:48   but somebody had said earlier today [TS]

00:41:50   anyway that you know if you think about [TS]

00:41:52   it the macs are getting more in more in [TS]

00:41:55   more portable and the iPads aren't that [TS]

00:42:00   different than they were a few years ago [TS]

00:42:02   the software is a lot better [TS]

00:42:05   multitasking is a lot better even my [TS]

00:42:06   ipad mini can do the multitasking but I [TS]

00:42:11   feel like the change in portability of [TS]

00:42:15   the most portable max is dramatically [TS]

00:42:17   better as compared to the change in [TS]

00:42:20   ability of iOS on an iPad and so that's [TS]

00:42:22   led me to wonder you know maybe I should [TS]

00:42:26   just get a macbook adorable as a super [TS]

00:42:28   portable travel machine because that [TS]

00:42:30   might fit my needs even better and so I [TS]

00:42:33   use this all and the reason I bring this [TS]

00:42:34   up is because it's a case study of why [TS]

00:42:37   maybe the ipad isn't doing that great [TS]

00:42:39   and as Mark alluded to there's probably [TS]

00:42:41   a billion other reasons but any [TS]

00:42:43   immediate any immediate thoughts on that [TS]

00:42:45   before we get too far down the rabbit [TS]

00:42:47   hole [TS]

00:42:47   I don't they go Matt could replace my [TS]

00:42:50   ipad usage for me and I think that's [TS]

00:42:51   probably true of most people put big [TS]

00:42:53   maybe you're using an iPad because no [TS]

00:42:56   Mac was portable enough but for people [TS]

00:42:57   who are using iPads for ipad I purposes [TS]

00:43:00   like there is no Mac even if there was [TS]

00:43:02   Mac exactly the same size and weight as [TS]

00:43:04   my ipad i still wouldn't use it because [TS]

00:43:06   I don't need a trackpad I want to touch [TS]

00:43:08   the screen [TS]

00:43:09   I don't want to deal with the keyboard [TS]

00:43:10   like I want an ipad for what for what I [TS]

00:43:12   do ipad stuff or just you know [TS]

00:43:13   browsing the web or reading Twitter or [TS]

00:43:16   watching video i want an ipad right so [TS]

00:43:19   there's no substitute for [TS]

00:43:20   the mac for that the ipad sales stuff [TS]

00:43:24   like that you know that we shouldn't do [TS]

00:43:27   this rattle off the reasons we've talked [TS]

00:43:29   about all the other things on Marco talk [TS]

00:43:31   about them in his post about the ipad [TS]

00:43:33   one of the most compelling ones aside [TS]

00:43:35   from my path lasting forever is if [TS]

00:43:38   people just use the iPads to watch video [TS]

00:43:39   you want to spend eight hundred dollars [TS]

00:43:41   to watch video on a little square the [TS]

00:43:43   screen right yet that's a loser market [TS]

00:43:45   the apples and that can't stake out the [TS]

00:43:47   high end of square screens that play [TS]

00:43:49   video because there is no high end of it [TS]

00:43:51   that is that is doomed to a low-end [TS]

00:43:53   thing all you need is some basic Wi-Fi [TS]

00:43:56   functionality a reasonable cpu with some [TS]

00:43:58   video decoding hardware and the ability [TS]

00:44:02   to run the amazon prime and netflix apps [TS]

00:44:04   right there at their Amazon tablets for [TS]

00:44:05   that their android tablets that you do [TS]

00:44:07   not need an ipad to watch netflix i [TS]

00:44:08   promise you right and so that's what [TS]

00:44:10   you're doing with your ipad i think [TS]

00:44:12   people like tablets for that purpose but [TS]

00:44:15   you don't need an ipad for that and the [TS]

00:44:18   other thrust of was the title of your [TS]

00:44:20   article Marco the future of computing oh [TS]

00:44:23   yeah so we've got our was on the show [TS]

00:44:25   before on us remind Marco once again [TS]

00:44:27   because apparently I was their combined [TS]

00:44:29   before he wrote this post but every time [TS]

00:44:31   we discussed that I take great pains to [TS]

00:44:33   emphasize the idea that the ipad as a [TS]

00:44:36   specific product as made by apple as [TS]

00:44:38   exists now may not necessarily be the [TS]

00:44:41   product that that sweeps across the [TS]

00:44:43   market and becomes the most important [TS]

00:44:45   thing but when I specifically talk about [TS]

00:44:47   the future of computing with capital F [TS]

00:44:48   capital see what I'm talking about is [TS]

00:44:51   post-pc computing which means computing [TS]

00:44:54   without as many of the concerns that [TS]

00:44:57   have necessarily come with pcs which [TS]

00:44:59   includes dealing with Windows menus [TS]

00:45:01   pointers file systems like all that [TS]

00:45:03   stuff and as compared to iOS which swept [TS]

00:45:07   all that stuff on the table and [TS]

00:45:09   abstracted and hit so much of it that is [TS]

00:45:11   the future of computing because people [TS]

00:45:13   can't handle pcs in general and dealing [TS]

00:45:16   with file systems and their files and [TS]

00:45:18   windows of this just it's too much on [TS]

00:45:20   the iOS or smartphone whatever interface [TS]

00:45:22   where they take away almost all that [TS]

00:45:24   complexity and massively simplified and [TS]

00:45:25   protect you from yourself that is the [TS]

00:45:27   future of computing unquestionably the [TS]

00:45:30   question is okay how does that manifest [TS]

00:45:32   doesn't manifest by mac OS lo [TS]

00:45:34   removing all the functionality doesn't [TS]

00:45:36   manifest by windows becoming this mutant [TS]

00:45:37   hybrid thing doesn't manifest bye-bye [TS]

00:45:39   android taking over the world order to [TS]

00:45:41   manifest by apple introduced in the ipad [TS]

00:45:43   it's up-and-coming on each one of those [TS]

00:45:45   products to figure out how they get [TS]

00:45:46   there but you know you it's not it's [TS]

00:45:49   like saying well the mac and successful [TS]

00:45:51   so let's all go back to us [TS]

00:45:53   nope that's not the answer but like you [TS]

00:45:56   know you can see what the future is [TS]

00:45:57   because we've all lived in our entire [TS]

00:45:59   lives and seeing how badly [TS]

00:46:01   humans are at dealing with pcs with all [TS]

00:46:04   the stuff they come with and then iOS [TS]

00:46:06   showed us a way to get a computing [TS]

00:46:08   platform with almost all that stuff gone [TS]

00:46:10   and now we're just hanging out yeah but [TS]

00:46:12   what about like the stuff he can't do [TS]

00:46:13   and the ipad thus far has been doing as [TS]

00:46:16   Marco points out not a great job of [TS]

00:46:18   showing you how you can get that same [TS]

00:46:19   stuff done without the complications but [TS]

00:46:21   it's very clear that without the [TS]

00:46:23   complications that is so much more [TS]

00:46:24   accessible because everybody has [TS]

00:46:25   smartphones and nobody deals with any of [TS]

00:46:27   that weird PC crap on their smartphones [TS]

00:46:29   like everything is just so much simpler [TS]

00:46:31   and easier and easy-to-use which is why [TS]

00:46:33   smartphones that raced across the entire [TS]

00:46:35   world and a tablet is just basically up [TS]

00:46:36   your smartphone in terms of how hard it [TS]

00:46:39   is to use at this point that has to [TS]

00:46:41   change if you ever want a capital a [TS]

00:46:44   capital C future computing to actually [TS]

00:46:46   marginalize the pc to push it down into [TS]

00:46:49   the specific realms where it will have [TS]

00:46:50   to remain right but it's that hasn't [TS]

00:46:54   happened yet [TS]

00:46:54   microsoft trying to do with service to [TS]

00:46:55   do apple sort of trying to do with the [TS]

00:46:58   ipad pro but half-heartedly is android [TS]

00:47:00   doing anything in the space i don't know [TS]

00:47:01   i mean maybe account Chromebooks is an [TS]

00:47:03   attempt to get out away from the the [TS]

00:47:06   some of the other that the dangers of [TS]

00:47:08   PCs but like doing a very good job but [TS]

00:47:10   but anyway that's that's the future [TS]

00:47:12   computer we all believe in and what we [TS]

00:47:14   what Apple should be what we should be [TS]

00:47:16   creating an apple is like you're blowing [TS]

00:47:18   it [TS]

00:47:18   you are not achieving that you you want [TS]

00:47:21   to have your cake but you know it's a [TS]

00:47:23   terrible anyway they want to thank you [TS]

00:47:25   but it's the it's the ipad and it's [TS]

00:47:28   simple like your phones like yes it is [TS]

00:47:30   and you use your place you bc it's like [TS]

00:47:32   well can we write and you know it it [TS]

00:47:36   Apple has to show us how to do that [TS]

00:47:37   because there are things we need to do [TS]

00:47:39   and we need to be able to do them and [TS]

00:47:41   they need to be pleasant just like yeah [TS]

00:47:43   web browsing [TS]

00:47:44   previously we were not able to do web [TS]

00:47:45   browsing our phones [TS]

00:47:47   or it was incredibly unpleasant and [TS]

00:47:48   apple said no actually you can do web [TS]

00:47:50   browsing on a tablet and phone and I [TS]

00:47:52   think we would all agree the browsing [TS]

00:47:53   the web on a tablet is super pleasant it [TS]

00:47:56   in many many ways nicer than doing it on [TS]

00:47:58   a pc if only because you can be sitting [TS]

00:48:00   on the couch and looking back and using [TS]

00:48:02   your fingers like more like flipping [TS]

00:48:03   through a magazine web browsing you've [TS]

00:48:05   nailed that ipad but as Marco point out [TS]

00:48:08   a million other things like whether [TS]

00:48:10   before editing a podcaster using [TS]

00:48:12   photoshop or dealing with a complicated [TS]

00:48:15   projects that span lots of different [TS]

00:48:16   applications and share data you know the [TS]

00:48:18   typical piece at keysight stuff I it [TS]

00:48:22   hasn't yet been demonstrated that were [TS]

00:48:24   able to do all those things in the same [TS]

00:48:25   way so everyone else is a contender the [TS]

00:48:28   mac is still contender for the future of [TS]

00:48:30   computing provided Apple was willing to [TS]

00:48:31   remove all the functionality we know and [TS]

00:48:33   love about the mac which I hope they [TS]

00:48:34   never do but that that's one way you [TS]

00:48:36   could try to get there you can try to [TS]

00:48:38   get there like Microsoft bye-bye weirdly [TS]

00:48:41   more from your desktop OS into a hybrid [TS]

00:48:42   OS does both things at once and you know [TS]

00:48:45   who knows how we get there but iOS such [TS]

00:48:48   a stake in the ground is to say it's [TS]

00:48:50   obvious that in the future [TS]

00:48:51   no one wants to deal with the crap that [TS]

00:48:53   we deal with on Macs and PCs today like [TS]

00:48:55   that is not the future of computing we [TS]

00:48:57   have to leave that behind but so far the [TS]

00:49:01   ipad has not been a compelling argument [TS]

00:49:03   that and there was one other graph [TS]

00:49:05   that's not in Jason's smells page that [TS]

00:49:08   work out here in six colors calm which [TS]

00:49:10   will put in the show notes that has tons [TS]

00:49:11   and tons of pretty graphs one page that [TS]

00:49:13   I think maybe Horace tweeted or [TS]

00:49:16   something [TS]

00:49:16   it's showing a graphs of days of the [TS]

00:49:20   week like average days of the week usage [TS]

00:49:22   time for what was it for smart phones [TS]

00:49:25   and pcs and the smart phone line is like [TS]

00:49:29   this little lumpy thing that goes along [TS]

00:49:30   right you don't see any particular large [TS]

00:49:32   trends there and the pc thing goes [TS]

00:49:35   monday through friday huge dip saturday [TS]

00:49:38   and sunday and backup for monday through [TS]

00:49:39   friday huge dip saturday and sunday [TS]

00:49:41   which is something that people use pcs [TS]

00:49:43   the weekends right and what are they not [TS]

00:49:45   on the weekends they're not at work so [TS]

00:49:46   maybe they're using PC's at work or [TS]

00:49:48   maybe the only considers pc is a work [TS]

00:49:49   like thing but the phones they use all [TS]

00:49:51   the time I feel like if the ipad curve [TS]

00:49:55   was shown it would look more like the [TS]

00:49:56   phone cover unless like to PC curve [TS]

00:49:58   because people aren't for the most part [TS]

00:50:00   doing [TS]

00:50:00   work on their iPad the iPad curve would [TS]

00:50:02   just be like i use the same at pretty [TS]

00:50:04   much every day it would be like the [TS]

00:50:05   weekends here i'm not going to be my [TS]

00:50:07   iPad because he was my pad for work [TS]

00:50:08   you'll know that's the idea that the [TS]

00:50:10   ipad or any other pc replacement device [TS]

00:50:13   or post-pc devices finally useful for [TS]

00:50:15   all the same thing species are when it [TS]

00:50:17   starts to get the same curve because [TS]

00:50:18   everyone's got to do some work and a lot [TS]

00:50:20   of people do work involving some kind of [TS]

00:50:22   task with computing and if they're still [TS]

00:50:25   doing that on personal computer type [TS]

00:50:27   devices minutes it could be lagging [TS]

00:50:28   indicator so maybe we have to wait a few [TS]

00:50:30   more years but right now think of the [TS]

00:50:32   number of people you know every day go [TS]

00:50:34   to work and just use a tablet of any [TS]

00:50:36   kind as opposed to pci no way more pc [TS]

00:50:39   users maybe because all my friends are [TS]

00:50:40   old but keep an eye on that I mean I [TS]

00:50:45   think what we're seeing that I think the [TS]

00:50:47   right way to interpret the ipad and the [TS]

00:50:51   future of computing and everything else [TS]

00:50:52   is probably something between the crazy [TS]

00:50:56   blog post i made and the argument that [TS]

00:50:58   John is making and the argument that [TS]

00:51:00   Jason snow made on upgrade this week you [TS]

00:51:03   know that the future of computing is not [TS]

00:51:06   going to be just one of these types of [TS]

00:51:07   things it's not going to be just tablets [TS]

00:51:09   and it's not going to be just computers [TS]

00:51:11   my argument is not that the ipad is [TS]

00:51:14   failing as a thing or that it's going [TS]

00:51:16   away or that useless to everybody [TS]

00:51:18   my argument is simply that when when [TS]

00:51:21   people say this is the future of [TS]

00:51:22   computing what they usually mean by that [TS]

00:51:24   is going to replace the pc style [TS]

00:51:26   computer you know I'm again I mean pcs [TS]

00:51:29   and macs and that basically mean nothing [TS]

00:51:31   for the most part in laptops and you [TS]

00:51:33   know other desktops and things that run [TS]

00:51:35   windows or mac OS like or linux even [TS]

00:51:39   like pc-style os's and i think that the [TS]

00:51:42   most likely outcome here is that the as [TS]

00:51:46   is a tablets event of all sorts are not [TS]

00:51:50   going to replace pcs they are going to [TS]

00:51:52   do what they've been doing which is add [TS]

00:51:54   to them augment them they're going to be [TS]

00:51:56   some people who only primarily like [TS]

00:51:58   tablets is going to be some people that [TS]

00:52:00   only are primarily like pcs they're not [TS]

00:52:02   going to actually replace each other in [TS]

00:52:04   either direction [TS]

00:52:05   well the only way that will happen i [TS]

00:52:07   don't think you can do that I think [TS]

00:52:09   you can have them not replace them [TS]

00:52:10   unless pcs essentially become [TS]

00:52:13   essentially adopt all the attributes [TS]

00:52:15   that I was just discussing of iOS style [TS]

00:52:18   computing like in other words pcs would [TS]

00:52:20   have to abandon all the weird-ass [TS]

00:52:22   crafted regular people don't like and [TS]

00:52:25   can handle about pcs i like because they [TS]

00:52:28   can't they can't stay in a current state [TS]

00:52:31   of like with all the legacy stuff that [TS]

00:52:32   the PCOS have to deal with that is an [TS]

00:52:35   untenable situation because people can't [TS]

00:52:36   use them and people can use phones and [TS]

00:52:38   so something something is going to [TS]

00:52:40   marginalize current style pcs whether [TS]

00:52:43   it's the pieces themselves changing [TS]

00:52:45   because it totally could be like you [TS]

00:52:46   could take any of those opportunities [TS]

00:52:48   operating systems you listed and slowly [TS]

00:52:51   basically I OSFI them while leaving [TS]

00:52:53   enough of the functionality still there [TS]

00:52:55   you know for showing through so you can [TS]

00:52:57   get more stuff done and you can an ipad [TS]

00:52:59   for example but you can't leave it there [TS]

00:53:01   it's again it's like going back two dots [TS]

00:53:02   like saying well I can't do everything I [TS]

00:53:04   was mad that I can do it on my pc with [TS]

00:53:07   das therefore it's a dead-end people [TS]

00:53:09   just you keep using the last forever [TS]

00:53:10   they won't like you the capabilities of [TS]

00:53:12   the GUI will eventually expand to do [TS]

00:53:13   enough of the things you know so I like [TS]

00:53:16   I i don't think there is any situation [TS]

00:53:19   where the pc as exists today with all [TS]

00:53:21   this legacy concerns does not become [TS]

00:53:23   marginalizing the future is just a [TS]

00:53:24   question of what marginalize it like not [TS]

00:53:27   disappear but marginalized like it in [TS]

00:53:29   the same way that you know people using [TS]

00:53:31   the command line still tons of people [TS]

00:53:32   looking online today I use it every day [TS]

00:53:33   but it's marginalized i'm not entirely [TS]

00:53:36   sure that your premises are our sound [TS]

00:53:38   here so problem number one is that you [TS]

00:53:41   said people can't figure out how to use [TS]

00:53:42   pcs but they can use their phones do we [TS]

00:53:45   actually know that it is that is [TS]

00:53:47   actually a thing like our pcs really as [TS]

00:53:49   hard as as we think they're to use and [TS]

00:53:52   then our phones as easy as you think [TS]

00:53:53   they are to use or is that cap actually [TS]

00:53:56   smaller than what we might think oh it's [TS]

00:53:58   big [TS]

00:53:58   go go find someone who has a pc whether [TS]

00:54:01   at work or at home even and just look at [TS]

00:54:03   it that's all I was just just look at it [TS]

00:54:05   just to sit watch them use it and see [TS]

00:54:06   what's on it and see what state it's in [TS]

00:54:08   and ask them to use to do something and [TS]

00:54:10   yes people have trouble with phones too [TS]

00:54:12   it's a relative thing but one is so much [TS]

00:54:14   easier than the other [TS]

00:54:15   don't you know one is not infinitely [TS]

00:54:16   easy and one is not infinitely hard and [TS]

00:54:18   yes you can learn to use anything but [TS]

00:54:20   you have to get rid of those things that [TS]

00:54:23   people don't like to to be concerned [TS]

00:54:25   about it means the reason people love [TS]

00:54:26   the phone so much they took away so many [TS]

00:54:28   things that they have to worry about [TS]

00:54:29   right let's make let's on Android but I [TS]

00:54:32   don't know about this village on the big [TS]

00:54:34   reasons that's always in your pocket and [TS]

00:54:36   it has these awesome cameras and sensors [TS]

00:54:38   and always data connections like there's [TS]

00:54:41   a lot about phones to love that don't [TS]

00:54:43   have to do with the usability paradigm [TS]

00:54:45   of their software but people people use [TS]

00:54:47   that people can do things with their [TS]

00:54:48   phones that the pcs could also do but [TS]

00:54:50   they never did with the pcs because it [TS]

00:54:52   was too much of a pain even just down to [TS]

00:54:53   like installing software so easy on [TS]

00:54:56   phones hard enough on on personal [TS]

00:54:58   computers and so fraught on personal [TS]

00:55:00   computers because of lack of the app [TS]

00:55:01   store and viruses and all sorts of stuff [TS]

00:55:02   like that that people didn't attempt it [TS]

00:55:04   or accidentally attempted to backside [TS]

00:55:06   clicking on things installed browser [TS]

00:55:07   toolbars and crap like that you know [TS]

00:55:08   like well all the crap of the pc world [TS]

00:55:11   makes it so people even if they were [TS]

00:55:13   equally easy to use it would say well [TS]

00:55:14   the this feels safer [TS]

00:55:16   suddenly i'm installing software all the [TS]

00:55:18   cool new app I'm gonna try it no no one [TS]

00:55:20   regular people were not discussing cool [TS]

00:55:22   new apps for their pcs only nerds for [TS]

00:55:24   that alone is resting a huge I think [TS]

00:55:26   you're describing android is that maybe [TS]

00:55:30   less than 100 even android if you like [TS]

00:55:31   the disposability phones like well my [TS]

00:55:34   phone is hosed I like you know the fact [TS]

00:55:36   that normalize backups and the anything [TS]

00:55:37   to nobody essentially nobody did to [TS]

00:55:39   their personal computers but because of [TS]

00:55:40   cloud backup cell phone stuff built in [TS]

00:55:42   more people have a shot at having some [TS]

00:55:45   kind of backup of something somewhere on [TS]

00:55:48   their phones where species like forget [TS]

00:55:50   it no your backups might as well not [TS]

00:55:52   exist as far as the non nerd world is [TS]

00:55:53   concerned [TS]

00:55:54   well and and so I think there's this [TS]

00:55:56   continuum here you know like you [TS]

00:55:58   mentioned like you command line all the [TS]

00:56:00   way up all the way up to like gooey and [TS]

00:56:01   phone when you're in the the more [TS]

00:56:03   command line side of it the more [TS]

00:56:05   difficult side of it getting getting [TS]

00:56:08   like productivity and power user type [TS]

00:56:10   tasks done is it possibly easier than on [TS]

00:56:14   the easy devices but casual use harder [TS]

00:56:17   and then on the on the devices like [TS]

00:56:20   phones and iPads getting productivity [TS]

00:56:22   and power use type things done is [TS]

00:56:24   actually hard to figure out but casual [TS]

00:56:27   users easier [TS]

00:56:28   somewhere in the middle there is the pc [TS]

00:56:30   style OS it pieces are lessons are you [TS]

00:56:33   know they they kind of try to be [TS]

00:56:34   everything I think we are generally much [TS]

00:56:38   better using them for productivity type [TS]

00:56:40   things in Paris type things and that's [TS]

00:56:42   partially because most productivity and [TS]

00:56:44   power user people have grown up with [TS]

00:56:46   computers to some degree or having a [TS]

00:56:47   certain number of years using them so [TS]

00:56:49   there's already a lot of people you know [TS]

00:56:50   what people are used to people already [TS]

00:56:52   trained on how to use computers for the [TS]

00:56:53   most part but also part of just the [TS]

00:56:55   design of them is you know with with [TS]

00:56:57   like these kind of file centric [TS]

00:56:59   paradigms of the desktops and everything [TS]

00:57:01   and all this drag and drop multiple [TS]

00:57:03   windows kind of stuff it's just a lot [TS]

00:57:04   easier to do a lot of tasks as a lot of [TS]

00:57:07   like productivity and powers of tasks on [TS]

00:57:09   a pc silo s that's not to say that I [TS]

00:57:13   pads and stuff can't get some of those [TS]

00:57:15   features but that but also you can't say [TS]

00:57:19   that pcs can't get some of the better [TS]

00:57:21   ease of use and security features that [TS]

00:57:23   I've had and phones have that's all [TS]

00:57:26   that's all I'm saying like if it if you [TS]

00:57:27   do that to the PC operating system you [TS]

00:57:30   know the if you start hiding the [TS]

00:57:32   filesystem pieces operating systems like [TS]

00:57:34   it's the same argument is just like it's [TS]

00:57:36   the question of venue where where is [TS]

00:57:37   that going to happen it's going to [TS]

00:57:39   happen because people don't like the old [TS]

00:57:40   way they like the new way better i do [TS]

00:57:42   they [TS]

00:57:43   i'm pretty sure that sales curve showing [TS]

00:57:45   something else yes they've proven it by [TS]

00:57:47   blood but by what they want to buy I [TS]

00:57:49   mean like so here's the thing with with [TS]

00:57:51   it with the complexity of tasks [TS]

00:57:53   it's about marginalizing uses about [TS]

00:57:55   chasing them farther into the corner [TS]

00:57:56   like so people who use the command line [TS]

00:57:58   and who do sophisticated things with the [TS]

00:58:00   computers will still need pcs but all [TS]

00:58:03   those people who just do email word [TS]

00:58:05   processing calendaring web browsing they [TS]

00:58:08   don't need pcs now they have them [TS]

00:58:10   because basically the only way to get [TS]

00:58:12   outlook and to be able to see pdfs and [TS]

00:58:15   do all the stuff but increasingly if [TS]

00:58:17   your company uses google docs and slack [TS]

00:58:19   and so not like you [TS]

00:58:21   there's no reason those people need a [TS]

00:58:23   full-fledged pc not because they're [TS]

00:58:26   doing command-line stuff but they're not [TS]

00:58:27   even doing anything complicated enough [TS]

00:58:28   to require them to use the non [TS]

00:58:31   command-line portions of a GUI like they [TS]

00:58:34   don't have multiple files that they're [TS]

00:58:36   assembling into a large you know project [TS]

00:58:39   they're not doing as you know [TS]

00:58:41   development is also kind of a command or [TS]

00:58:43   anything but it's a matter of slowly [TS]

00:58:46   making the people who need pcs the [TS]

00:58:48   smaller and smaller subset of people in [TS]

00:58:50   the same way the people who need command [TS]

00:58:51   lines have become a smaller and smaller [TS]

00:58:53   subset of people it stops at some point [TS]

00:58:54   it's not as if you mean if the command [TS]

00:58:56   line and marginalizing the command line [TS]

00:58:58   has really stalled out because so many [TS]

00:58:59   people to software development or do [TS]

00:59:01   stuff involving you know servers and so [TS]

00:59:04   on where the command line is important [TS]

00:59:06   and is not going away anytime soon [TS]

00:59:08   right so it's not like you chased [TS]

00:59:09   command line to wait until the only [TS]

00:59:10   three people in the world using it but [TS]

00:59:12   it shrinks way down from where was the [TS]

00:59:13   last thing like to do your regular [TS]

00:59:15   business stuff you don't need a command [TS]

00:59:18   line you can get that all done with a [TS]

00:59:20   gooey which was which was an argument [TS]

00:59:21   points like well I want to really work [TS]

00:59:23   done any dots but I wanted this one [TS]

00:59:25   silly thing like drop the so digital [TS]

00:59:26   painting maybe I can use a GUI [TS]

00:59:27   eventually you can do everything we go [TS]

00:59:30   you can do your fancy business [TS]

00:59:31   spreadsheets you can write your word [TS]

00:59:32   processing things even had been invented [TS]

00:59:34   but you could do that too [TS]

00:59:35   like hell you know you do all that stuff [TS]

00:59:37   from the GUI it's just a question of [TS]

00:59:38   marginalizing that stuff and if that [TS]

00:59:40   stuff gets marginalized by like old [TS]

00:59:43   style pc operating system and new style [TS]

00:59:46   one that hides all that crap or mode [TS]

00:59:48   within one or that it really depends on [TS]

00:59:49   the particular company then ends up [TS]

00:59:51   figuring this out whether it be apple [TS]

00:59:53   with its whole different OS ipad [TS]

00:59:55   approach or Microsoft with hybrid [TS]

00:59:56   approach or Android with its follow us [TS]

00:59:58   everywhere cross [TS]

00:59:58   everywhere cross [TS]

01:00:00   OS whatever hybrid asking or even just [TS]

01:00:01   with the web stuff like can you get [TS]

01:00:03   everything done with the web browser and [TS]

01:00:04   use a Chromebook for regular people so [TS]

01:00:06   you have nothing locally and it's just [TS]

01:00:07   everything is on the web [TS]

01:00:09   maybe you can do that case you [TS]

01:00:10   definitely don't know to need a pc style [TS]

01:00:12   operating system to do that you did [TS]

01:00:13   something that can run all the web apps [TS]

01:00:15   and that's not so far-fetched especially [TS]

01:00:17   if like there's a slack clients like [TS]

01:00:18   that so I you know I I don't I wouldn't [TS]

01:00:23   focus on one single product i want to [TS]

01:00:25   focus on what we call pcs because it's [TS]

01:00:27   possible for them to be the future of [TS]

01:00:29   computing as well just have to look for [TS]

01:00:32   where where and how the people who [TS]

01:00:34   really do continue to need a GUI end up [TS]

01:00:37   getting you know where where do they get [TS]

01:00:39   chase what car they get chased into [TS]

01:00:41   because they'll be hanging out there [TS]

01:00:42   with the command line people because of [TS]

01:00:43   the command line people are not going [TS]

01:00:45   anywhere and very often they're the same [TS]

01:00:46   people and so eventually they'll be [TS]

01:00:48   joined by the people who need to use [TS]

01:00:49   like full PC operating systems then [TS]

01:00:52   everyone else will be trying to book [TS]

01:00:54   rooms and outlook usually on their on [TS]

01:00:58   their future of computing devices [TS]

01:01:00   because that's what they do all day is [TS]

01:01:01   some people emails and mess with [TS]

01:01:03   calendars and I voice time and slack so [TS]

01:01:06   i don't disagree with much of what you [TS]

01:01:09   said I think I think we're kind of going [TS]

01:01:11   to different points here basically my [TS]

01:01:14   theory is that the pc style operating [TS]

01:01:18   system and the ipad style operating [TS]

01:01:22   system have this this kind of common [TS]

01:01:25   ground between the two that they're both [TS]

01:01:28   kind of aiming for or should be aiming [TS]

01:01:30   for to solve their problems but i'm not [TS]

01:01:33   sure they mention that I'm not sure the [TS]

01:01:35   either product can get to the other ones [TS]

01:01:37   common ground or like if they actually [TS]

01:01:39   meet in the middle successfully i'm not [TS]

01:01:42   sure that would be a good product for [TS]

01:01:43   either of them but i'm using the same [TS]

01:01:46   company because the same company would [TS]

01:01:47   be foolish to make their two products [TS]

01:01:49   meet in the middle like right so but [TS]

01:01:51   they could be likely to the ipad meats [TS]

01:01:53   like Windows 10 in the middle you know [TS]

01:01:54   me and like when Windows 10 goes goes [TS]

01:01:57   tablet and the ipad goes pc but the mac [TS]

01:01:59   would still be hanging out there in like [TS]

01:02:01   full fledge pc area right however I do [TS]

01:02:04   think though that we are judging this [TS]

01:02:06   for the most part from what Apple's [TS]

01:02:08   doing because Microsoft does crazy [TS]

01:02:10   things there they are kind of on drugs [TS]

01:02:12   sometimes they work sometimes [TS]

01:02:13   they don't get it who knows what they're [TS]

01:02:14   doing over there sometimes they're [TS]

01:02:16   pretty cool [TS]

01:02:16   microsoft is showing that there's still [TS]

01:02:19   a lot that can maybe be done in pc-style [TS]

01:02:22   os's and and also there there is a [TS]

01:02:26   possibility of making more productivity [TS]

01:02:28   focused tablets like Microsoft is doing [TS]

01:02:30   a bunch of stuff in that area and it's [TS]

01:02:32   all wacky and some of it is cool most of [TS]

01:02:34   it is weird and sometimes it works [TS]

01:02:36   sometimes it doesn't ok but they [TS]

01:02:37   actually are moving and they're actually [TS]

01:02:39   seeing some progress there and some [TS]

01:02:41   success with their surface stuff and and [TS]

01:02:43   various windows 10 seconds like we make [TS]

01:02:45   fun of it but it actually is starting to [TS]

01:02:47   actually succeed anyway we are looking [TS]

01:02:50   at apple for this because we know Apple [TS]

01:02:53   if they put their mind to it would do a [TS]

01:02:54   better job at both sides of this however [TS]

01:02:57   i think it's very clear from recent [TS]

01:03:01   years that Apple's not really stepping [TS]

01:03:04   on the gas too hard on either side of [TS]

01:03:06   this they're devoting their resources [TS]

01:03:08   elsewhere [TS]

01:03:09   they're focusing on things like the [TS]

01:03:10   iphone and services and the watch and [TS]

01:03:13   maybe occasionally the TV and pouring [TS]

01:03:15   God knows how much effort into this this [TS]

01:03:17   car thing we are not really stepping on [TS]

01:03:21   the gas on trying to improve mac OS [TS]

01:03:23   which seems like almost in maintenance [TS]

01:03:25   mode and ipad OS / iOS seem like in [TS]

01:03:31   these productivity style or or you know [TS]

01:03:35   power user style ways it jumps forward [TS]

01:03:38   like every two years in some interesting [TS]

01:03:41   way like that multitasking are split [TS]

01:03:42   screen or extensions or whatever else [TS]

01:03:44   but that kind of just sits there for a [TS]

01:03:46   while they're not really driving quickly [TS]

01:03:48   towards either of these goals and it's [TS]

01:03:51   kind of unclear as to whether they even [TS]

01:03:53   intend to [TS]

01:03:54   so I think it's kind of a bad example [TS]

01:03:56   like we we are trying to argue whether [TS]

01:03:59   these things are possible whether [TS]

01:04:00   conversions as possible or which one of [TS]

01:04:02   these is like quote the right or the [TS]

01:04:03   inevitable the future approach but we're [TS]

01:04:05   basing that on only what Apple's doing [TS]

01:04:07   here and I think that's kind of blinding [TS]

01:04:09   us to and well but I'm what might be [TS]

01:04:11   possible because if a company was the [TS]

01:04:15   company had these platforms that really [TS]

01:04:17   cared a lot about these particular [TS]

01:04:19   things have to prioritize them higher [TS]

01:04:21   than what Apple does i think we might [TS]

01:04:23   see more answers more quickly and I [TS]

01:04:25   think we might see ID [TS]

01:04:27   he's tried that we wouldn't have [TS]

01:04:28   considered and Microsoft is almost doing [TS]

01:04:30   that like there again they're doing a [TS]

01:04:32   lot of crazy stuff there's not doing [TS]

01:04:33   very well most of the time because [TS]

01:04:34   they're not that great at it but we are [TS]

01:04:38   seeing like it is possible if you invest [TS]

01:04:40   heavily in these areas and you really [TS]

01:04:42   step on the gas in these areas it is [TS]

01:04:44   possible to both have interesting [TS]

01:04:47   tablets that could be easy to use and [TS]

01:04:49   also run productivity software pretty [TS]

01:04:51   well and it's also possible to do [TS]

01:04:54   interesting new things with desktops to [TS]

01:04:56   bring them closer to the tablet world in [TS]

01:04:59   in ways that make tablet real good i [TS]

01:05:01   think it's only a matter of for Apple [TS]

01:05:04   specifically do they care enough about [TS]

01:05:06   mac OS to make major changes to the OS [TS]

01:05:10   and to the way it works and we just saw [TS]

01:05:12   the touch bar everything and that's cool [TS]

01:05:13   that's not a major change to the to the [TS]

01:05:16   interaction model or the application [TS]

01:05:18   model of the OS that's a hardware [TS]

01:05:19   features that sells new hardware and has [TS]

01:05:21   some software integration and it's [TS]

01:05:23   really cool the way to integrate the [TS]

01:05:24   hardware and everything but that's not [TS]

01:05:26   fundamentally changing mac OS any [TS]

01:05:27   meaningful way [TS]

01:05:29   so today well okay that is not additive [TS]

01:05:33   it's it but I think Marcus its Marcus [TS]

01:05:35   Wright is purely added if it's not it's [TS]

01:05:37   not taking away any complexity for the [TS]

01:05:38   mac put it that way and you have the [TS]

01:05:39   weird stuff on the mac like the touch [TS]

01:05:41   part doesn't also that all is just an [TS]

01:05:42   additive cool thing right but it does [TS]

01:05:45   not allow you to avoid or otherwise hide [TS]

01:05:47   or make move any of the complexity [TS]

01:05:49   involved in all the things that I was [TS]

01:05:51   better than the mac exactly and then on [TS]

01:05:53   the other side I OS on you on the phone [TS]

01:05:56   the phone is making great strides of [TS]

01:05:58   course because that's where Apple [TS]

01:05:59   focuses a lot because that's good they [TS]

01:06:00   should that's what that's where all the [TS]

01:06:01   action is like that makes sense but on [TS]

01:06:04   the ipad what we see it we see the same [TS]

01:06:06   pattern from them over and over again [TS]

01:06:08   which is they give the ipad a little bit [TS]

01:06:10   of attention and they kind of just let [TS]

01:06:11   it sit for a year or two and they give [TS]

01:06:13   it a little bit more attention and [TS]

01:06:15   that's it for a year or two but [TS]

01:06:17   ultimately the ipad always is playing [TS]

01:06:19   second fiddle to the iphone that's and [TS]

01:06:21   that's true of both in Apple's attention [TS]

01:06:23   also just the design of the OS in so [TS]

01:06:26   many ways the ipad just a blown-up [TS]

01:06:29   iphone and it seems like that's mostly [TS]

01:06:32   okay with everybody and that's fine [TS]

01:06:34   there are a lot of advantages to doing [TS]

01:06:35   it that way but if you keep doing it [TS]

01:06:37   that way i don't see how it ever [TS]

01:06:39   or replaces more pcs meaningful than one [TS]

01:06:42   is replacing now you just go to the [TS]

01:06:44   screen thing which was the thing I [TS]

01:06:45   always bring up like people don't use [TS]

01:06:47   pcs with 12 inch screens on their desk [TS]

01:06:49   if they can help it [TS]

01:06:50   like maybe in laptops but even then I [TS]

01:06:52   think if they want to work all day [TS]

01:06:53   they're hooked up to a bigger screen [TS]

01:06:55   there's a reason for that but you know [TS]

01:06:56   bigger screen lets you see more stuff [TS]

01:06:57   that makes you more productive remember [TS]

01:06:59   back in the day you remember back in the [TS]

01:07:00   eighties all the studies about how [TS]

01:07:02   productivity worker productivity [TS]

01:07:04   increases when you have bigger CRT on [TS]

01:07:05   your desk in like this video's as an [TS]

01:07:07   excuse to demand a massive 21 inch CRT [TS]

01:07:10   which actually they were massive they're [TS]

01:07:12   really huge and heavy and people don't [TS]

01:07:13   understand exactly how big those things [TS]

01:07:15   were but yeah I mean like how it be both [TS]

01:07:21   the ipad and on the Mac when one of the [TS]

01:07:23   things that I was a tribute to the [TS]

01:07:24   fictional person of apple computer which [TS]

01:07:26   is not a person but a collection of [TS]

01:07:27   people but you know it's sort of turning [TS]

01:07:29   into a person like Apple is hoping that [TS]

01:07:33   people don't have to do such complicated [TS]

01:07:36   things can't you do all of your stuff [TS]

01:07:38   with the ipad apps that we give you look [TS]

01:07:40   at a simple they are you just need these [TS]

01:07:41   simple functions just need to be able to [TS]

01:07:43   crop your images in this way [TS]

01:07:45   no you don't need to be able to crop [TS]

01:07:47   with with fixed proportions but also in [TS]

01:07:49   landscape and portrait you only need to [TS]

01:07:50   do have mac on the iphone teeth really [TS]

01:07:52   need to do that when you edit video you [TS]

01:07:54   really that fine control of how the [TS]

01:07:56   audio comes in or can you just drag the [TS]

01:07:58   slider and we'll pick the curve for you [TS]

01:07:59   like do you really need that much all [TS]

01:08:02   right how about how would be the [TS]

01:08:03   precision editor is that precise enough [TS]

01:08:04   couldn't can't you get your work done [TS]

01:08:06   just with these simple visit so much [TS]

01:08:08   easier with the symbol we don't have [TS]

01:08:09   dialogues all these numbers in them we [TS]

01:08:11   don't have all these pallets that you [TS]

01:08:13   have to rearrange and so many pallets [TS]

01:08:14   you can even have them all on the screen [TS]

01:08:16   the same time of the pic which ones you [TS]

01:08:17   want [TS]

01:08:18   that's just too much like how much [TS]

01:08:19   simple as guys read can't you get to [TS]

01:08:20   work that people say sometimes but other [TS]

01:08:24   times no arm and Apple really doesn't [TS]

01:08:27   want to give you either like for the max [TS]

01:08:29   I can't you worked with one cpu most of [TS]

01:08:31   the time yeah but maybe I want if I had [TS]

01:08:34   two of them and they both had 12 cores I [TS]

01:08:37   could cut this portion of my work down [TS]

01:08:39   in half and it would make me more [TS]

01:08:40   productive farm but but can't you get is [TS]

01:08:42   this ok we just buy this one it's like [TS]

01:08:44   that it's like wishful thinking that the [TS]

01:08:47   massive simplification that is so good [TS]

01:08:49   for everybody doesn't fit that they seem [TS]

01:08:51   to be thinking it'll fit [TS]

01:08:52   more people into it than it does and is [TS]

01:08:55   marketed like people just getting shaved [TS]

01:08:56   off the top and that you know it [TS]

01:08:58   Apple has shown that they're essentially [TS]

01:09:00   captive audience when you come up with [TS]

01:09:01   the new laptops and the 500 always more [TS]

01:09:02   expensive and they don't have all the [TS]

01:09:05   ports and features that you may have [TS]

01:09:06   wanted [TS]

01:09:06   you're gonna buy him anyway what choice [TS]

01:09:08   do you have what you do you know vote [TS]

01:09:10   for a third party candidate go ahead [TS]

01:09:12   thrown away but i finally got the [TS]

01:09:15   reference [TS]

01:09:15   yeah so it so to get like that is that I [TS]

01:09:20   feel like is where Apple is dropping the [TS]

01:09:22   ball and isn't there [TS]

01:09:23   there have been too optimistic too [TS]

01:09:26   hopeful that every new thing they make [TS]

01:09:28   whether it's like the new version of [TS]

01:09:30   imovie were there to keep the old one [TS]

01:09:31   around for you know that old one that [TS]

01:09:33   really old car for many many years ago [TS]

01:09:35   you know all the way up to the hopes [TS]

01:09:39   that the iOS versions of their apps like [TS]

01:09:41   the iOS versions of photo editing and so [TS]

01:09:43   on and so forth [TS]

01:09:44   would would be enough for anybody so [TS]

01:09:46   much so that we can even just put them [TS]

01:09:47   to the mac and be enough for everybody [TS]

01:09:48   there to like that is probably good [TS]

01:09:52   strategy for trying to simplify for most [TS]

01:09:53   people but it just slowly like torturing [TS]

01:09:58   the people who really do have demanding [TS]

01:10:00   needs and apple doesn't want to complex [TS]

01:10:03   if I the software and apple doesn't seem [TS]

01:10:05   to want to make it so that other people [TS]

01:10:06   can make similarly similarly complicated [TS]

01:10:09   software if only because they refused to [TS]

01:10:10   make an ipad with a bigger screen [TS]

01:10:11   because you can't fit all Lightroom's [TS]

01:10:13   palace in there my market was playing [TS]

01:10:14   with my room on a 28-inch surface to do [TS]

01:10:16   that gives you enough room for all the [TS]

01:10:18   rooms crazy pallets I'll do you really [TS]

01:10:20   need all these controls in my room can't [TS]

01:10:21   you get away with just the controls that [TS]

01:10:22   are in like an okay iOS app know you [TS]

01:10:25   actually can't do this for a certain [TS]

01:10:27   section of the market you can't and if [TS]

01:10:28   apple doesn't care about them they are [TS]

01:10:30   seating that entire market both on the [TS]

01:10:32   pc and mac to other people now the break [TS]

01:10:35   microsoft into it to think about [TS]

01:10:36   microsoft they're kind of in the Apple [TS]

01:10:38   position and I kind of feel bad for them [TS]

01:10:39   but kind of not because you know history [TS]

01:10:41   where even if Microsoft has the right [TS]

01:10:45   product and even if the product is [TS]

01:10:47   awesome [TS]

01:10:48   sometimes you're just not in the right [TS]

01:10:49   market position are you have the wrong [TS]

01:10:51   reputation like forces independent of [TS]

01:10:54   the quality of your product can cause [TS]

01:10:56   your thing to fail [TS]

01:10:57   look at apple in the nineties the best [TS]

01:10:59   operating system the best gooey but it [TS]

01:11:02   was too late [TS]

01:11:02   like Microsoft authorities one and wait [TS]

01:11:04   hang on you're saying OS [TS]

01:11:06   classic OS was the best operating system [TS]

01:11:08   in the nineties yeah i'll give you the [TS]

01:11:11   eighties and maybe the first part of the [TS]

01:11:13   nineties first few years maybe but leg [TS]

01:11:16   well what right before until windows [TS]

01:11:17   2000-2001 ninety nine yes nine trust me [TS]

01:11:24   I mean sir i'm doing and then like an [TS]

01:11:27   attack on the tech things you know it's [TS]

01:11:29   it's borderline but anyway certainly [TS]

01:11:30   back when it was like the Macintosh vs [TS]

01:11:33   das and like windows 1.0 and so but [TS]

01:11:35   anyway not to rehash that sometimes you [TS]

01:11:37   don't win with the best product right [TS]

01:11:39   and so even myself gets it right [TS]

01:11:42   forget it writer than apple like we we [TS]

01:11:44   are at the whim of the companies that [TS]

01:11:46   exist and they're in there in trench [TS]

01:11:48   legacies and their customer bases and [TS]

01:11:50   where they make them like it's not a [TS]

01:11:52   perfect system where when someone comes [TS]

01:11:54   up with the right answer it will just [TS]

01:11:55   you know it we we have we are stuck with [TS]

01:11:58   the companies that we have for the new [TS]

01:11:59   companies that will have to grow to [TS]

01:12:00   replace them and that is a ugly messy [TS]

01:12:02   slow process and so it's really hard to [TS]

01:12:05   tell if Microsoft actually has the right [TS]

01:12:06   answer like for example if Apple had [TS]

01:12:08   done with Microsoft's doing with its OS [TS]

01:12:10   strategy they would probably be farther [TS]

01:12:12   along because Apple has been in a [TS]

01:12:14   stronger position because of a little [TS]

01:12:15   thing called the iphone and they could [TS]

01:12:16   have made a lot of headway there were as [TS]

01:12:18   Microsoft was coming away from behind [TS]

01:12:20   having really gone you know really [TS]

01:12:22   missed the boat on the mobile thing and [TS]

01:12:24   having all sorts of problems with their [TS]

01:12:25   traditional sources of revenue switching [TS]

01:12:28   around trying to change into a services [TS]

01:12:29   company like so it's really hard to tell [TS]

01:12:32   i think about the right answer there [TS]

01:12:33   either but i love that Microsoft has the [TS]

01:12:35   luxury of having a completely failed [TS]

01:12:37   smartphone efforts of the evidence no [TS]

01:12:39   legacy and smartphones to work with the [TS]

01:12:40   act [TS]

01:12:41   well it's just stuff like now that [TS]

01:12:43   outlet that uh that iOS and Android like [TS]

01:12:45   sort of run the table [TS]

01:12:47   what room is there for like it Tyson or [TS]

01:12:49   whatever the hell that thing is called [TS]

01:12:50   or you know windows phone [TS]

01:12:52   all rights and stuff like it again it [TS]

01:12:54   even if Microsoft had the best [TS]

01:12:56   smartphone operating system technically [TS]

01:12:59   a statically user-friendliness or [TS]

01:13:00   whatever it's so hard to go up against [TS]

01:13:03   entrenched interests but then we always [TS]

01:13:04   talk about Apple's we know more about it [TS]

01:13:06   and if you like apples apples mistake is [TS]

01:13:08   actually one of naive optimism or [TS]

01:13:11   wishful thinking and they and they keep [TS]

01:13:13   plugging away I like they plugged away [TS]

01:13:14   at you don't need access to the file [TS]

01:13:16   system for how many years before the [TS]

01:13:17   iCloud drive like this all just wasted [TS]

01:13:19   time [TS]

01:13:19   could be if they were to come up with a [TS]

01:13:20   better answer that fine you can come up [TS]

01:13:22   with a better answer [TS]

01:13:23   not really good to wait six years or the [TS]

01:13:26   hell it was before before I cloud drive [TS]

01:13:28   comes out because by that point [TS]

01:13:29   everybody's already using dropbox or [TS]

01:13:31   onedrive or whatever that they're using [TS]

01:13:33   and you know I cloud drive because it's [TS]

01:13:35   entrenched it's from the platform [TS]

01:13:36   vendors gonna do okay [TS]

01:13:38   same thing with Apple music streaming [TS]

01:13:40   like there isn't an advantage of being [TS]

01:13:41   the the platform owner but that's that's [TS]

01:13:44   not a that's not a strong move to take [TS]

01:13:48   away the file system and all the [TS]

01:13:49   functionality over form provides while [TS]

01:13:50   hiding the complexity and then not come [TS]

01:13:52   up with a suitable replacement and then [TS]

01:13:54   just bail couple years later and say [TS]

01:13:56   okay here's here's dropbox this is [TS]

01:13:58   always the struggle of the iPad and an [TS]

01:14:02   iOS in general also fits but I think [TS]

01:14:04   more for the ipad that in order to [TS]

01:14:07   enable these power uses you you have to [TS]

01:14:10   give a little on the simplicity and [TS]

01:14:13   there's always the question of whether [TS]

01:14:15   you're actually just you know slowly [TS]

01:14:17   re-implementing the back the mac poorly [TS]

01:14:19   you know like the whole list joke and I [TS]

01:14:22   think I don't think that the industry [TS]

01:14:25   has shown yet that anybody has a really [TS]

01:14:27   good idea of how to balance those things [TS]

01:14:29   between like power usability and [TS]

01:14:31   multitasking and and file access and [TS]

01:14:34   things like that and simplicity of [TS]

01:14:36   tablet use i think almost everybody just [TS]

01:14:39   kind of punch the answer that question [TS]

01:14:40   of oh well this Apple figure it out [TS]

01:14:43   they're smart or something some answer [TS]

01:14:45   like that that's really not an answer [TS]

01:14:46   it's like usually apple doesn't figure [TS]

01:14:49   things out that we can't figure out a [TS]

01:14:51   solution to ourselves like because [TS]

01:14:53   usually apples made it for the same kind [TS]

01:14:55   of people outside of apple and if they [TS]

01:14:57   if we can figure out whether whether [TS]

01:14:59   solution to a problem can even exist [TS]

01:15:01   they usually can't either they usually [TS]

01:15:03   just punted say well [TS]

01:15:05   yep this is a problem deal with it and [TS]

01:15:06   we do and it's it's fine [TS]

01:15:08   look like when the ipad was was first [TS]

01:15:11   being rumored we were all able what [TS]

01:15:13   they're gonna do for text input because [TS]

01:15:15   on-screen keyboards are pretty limited [TS]

01:15:18   but you can't have like a physical [TS]

01:15:21   keyboard on the tablet that doesn't work [TS]

01:15:22   either [TS]

01:15:23   what are they gonna do and they punted [TS]

01:15:26   they said all right well here's [TS]

01:15:27   on-screen keyboard its limited but deal [TS]

01:15:29   with it and will tell you this external [TS]

01:15:31   one that was really bizarre [TS]

01:15:33   and yeah like sometimes these are just [TS]

01:15:37   kind of unsolvable design problems that [TS]

01:15:40   you just have to pick one or the other [TS]

01:15:42   and neither are great and I think the [TS]

01:15:44   balance between the you know file system [TS]

01:15:47   access and windowing and multitasking [TS]

01:15:49   and everything like that and the [TS]

01:15:51   simplicity of what iOS offers today I [TS]

01:15:56   just don't think there is a good balance [TS]

01:15:57   between those two there might be ways to [TS]

01:15:59   do it better than what the mac and [TS]

01:16:02   windows do but i still think that if you [TS]

01:16:06   add that power you were going to ruin [TS]

01:16:09   the simplicity you're going to add [TS]

01:16:10   complexity [TS]

01:16:11   it's good it is going to be one of those [TS]

01:16:13   design punts and I'm not sure that this [TS]

01:16:17   is necessarily avoidable but but but i [TS]

01:16:19   do think it's it might be an unsolvable [TS]

01:16:23   problem because tablets have been around [TS]

01:16:24   for awhile now and we still haven't [TS]

01:16:27   figured out a solution to this problem [TS]

01:16:28   you know I keep coming back to is I'm [TS]

01:16:31   listening to you guys I I think about [TS]

01:16:33   what chris lattner did set a couple [TS]

01:16:35   episodes ago but it's cool that we can [TS]

01:16:37   say that he liked what he had said about [TS]

01:16:39   Swift having and I forget the term we [TS]

01:16:42   use maybe one of you remembers but like [TS]

01:16:44   progressive disclosure and yeah exactly [TS]

01:16:46   where I was going with this where i [TS]

01:16:49   think by and large market i actually [TS]

01:16:50   agree with you in that i don't i [TS]

01:16:52   personally don't see a way to square the [TS]

01:16:54   circle and in order to make an ipad more [TS]

01:16:58   usable for more people in a professional [TS]

01:17:02   capacity [TS]

01:17:03   I think you would have to take away a [TS]

01:17:05   lot of the things that make the ipad so [TS]

01:17:07   great today but progressive disclosure [TS]

01:17:10   is the thing that's already happening [TS]

01:17:12   like if you don't do a swipe from the [TS]

01:17:15   right side of the screen toward the [TS]

01:17:16   center of the screen [TS]

01:17:17   would you ever really know about [TS]

01:17:18   multitasking if you don't hit that that [TS]

01:17:21   little of I know about it when i [TS]

01:17:23   accidentally do a plan a game [TS]

01:17:25   oh yeah and that's where so you know [TS]

01:17:27   what I'm driving at you know what I'm [TS]

01:17:28   driving at [TS]

01:17:28   and actually I think that's such a [TS]

01:17:29   relevant like it sounds like a side [TS]

01:17:31   thing i do you actually do gesture so [TS]

01:17:33   what that's one of the things that is [TS]

01:17:36   more trouble someone touch devices and [TS]

01:17:38   less on PCs we're like progressive [TS]

01:17:40   disclosure is easier on desktop [TS]

01:17:42   operating system because you're less [TS]

01:17:43   likely to accidentally trigger something [TS]

01:17:44   because the [TS]

01:17:46   input is more precise right and there's [TS]

01:17:48   more mechanisms right you have an entire [TS]

01:17:50   keyboard and then you have all the [TS]

01:17:51   hotkeys and you have a pointing device [TS]

01:17:53   and two buttons on you can have like [TS]

01:17:54   alternate clicks and modifier and [TS]

01:17:56   they're not afraid to put preferences in [TS]

01:17:58   like hey you want to disable dashboard [TS]

01:18:00   and disabled hot corners you can't iOS [TS]

01:18:02   has you know disable multitasking [TS]

01:18:03   gestures and stuff but some things you [TS]

01:18:05   just can't turn off on iOS because [TS]

01:18:06   they're always they're like actually [TS]

01:18:07   control center i think you can as a [TS]

01:18:08   preference for that too but yeah that [TS]

01:18:11   type of that type of things like how do [TS]

01:18:13   you do progressive disclosure disclosure [TS]

01:18:14   well on a device where you've already [TS]

01:18:16   used up like every possible Morse code [TS]

01:18:18   click combination on the home button and [TS]

01:18:20   fifty million gestures and there's no [TS]

01:18:22   keyboard like that kind of already [TS]

01:18:24   painted themselves into a corner in [TS]

01:18:26   their ability it in their eagerness to [TS]

01:18:28   gild the lily of iOS touch interface is [TS]

01:18:32   not leaving a lot of room for them to [TS]

01:18:34   win the more complicated stuff in a nice [TS]

01:18:35   progressive disclosure way [TS]

01:18:37   yeah I i agree with you and I I just [TS]

01:18:40   can't help but wonder is there something [TS]

01:18:42   that I'm not seen today that would lend [TS]

01:18:46   itself to having the ipad feel like a [TS]

01:18:50   more i'm gonna use the word professional [TS]

01:18:51   but I can think of a better way better [TS]

01:18:53   work for but more professional device [TS]

01:18:54   and I think about if you had told me [TS]

01:18:56   during the iOS 6 or 7 days [TS]

01:19:00   oh you know there's gonna come a time [TS]

01:19:01   that you can have this floating window [TS]

01:19:03   that plays video that you can shimmy [TS]

01:19:04   around the screen and enlarged and [TS]

01:19:06   shrink and swipe off to the side to kind [TS]

01:19:08   of hide it for a minute I would've [TS]

01:19:10   thought you were bonkers and I would [TS]

01:19:11   have wondered you know how do you [TS]

01:19:12   activate that well how do you make how [TS]

01:19:13   to make it go away what do you do with [TS]

01:19:15   this thing and it turns out [TS]

01:19:16   picture-in-picture the ipad is awesome [TS]

01:19:18   and similarly multitasking is pretty [TS]

01:19:21   awesome [TS]

01:19:22   it's pretty crappy switching between [TS]

01:19:24   apps on the little multitasking app [TS]

01:19:26   switcher but by and large it's pretty [TS]

01:19:27   awesome and I don't know that I would [TS]

01:19:29   have seen a way to do that prior to [TS]

01:19:32   having actually seen the way it was [TS]

01:19:34   implemented so I i do agree with the [TS]

01:19:37   both of you but I can't help but wonder [TS]

01:19:38   what is it that we are not thinking of [TS]

01:19:40   that would make something in the spirit [TS]

01:19:43   of progressive disclosure possible and I [TS]

01:19:46   i don't know i have no specifics but it [TS]

01:19:48   makes me wonder what's coming you know [TS]

01:19:50   what's coming in june [TS]

01:19:51   no you're not thinking of it but i'd [TS]

01:19:52   totally i'm thinking of it like there's [TS]

01:19:54   something else was getting with Apple [TS]

01:19:55   being wishful in hoping that the simple [TS]

01:19:58   applications and the [TS]

01:20:00   limited form factors in interface venues [TS]

01:20:02   that they have provided on the ipad and [TS]

01:20:04   and increasingly on the Mac will be [TS]

01:20:06   sufficient for everybody's needs they [TS]

01:20:08   are intentionally not doing a bunch of [TS]

01:20:10   obvious things for a long time they [TS]

01:20:12   intentionally didn't do the obvious [TS]

01:20:13   thing of giving you up a pencil [TS]

01:20:16   basically Apple pencil for a long time [TS]

01:20:18   they avoid that because it's like that's [TS]

01:20:19   an additional complication [TS]

01:20:21   most people don't need it maybe we can [TS]

01:20:23   get along without it and you know we had [TS]

01:20:26   to endure many many years of people [TS]

01:20:27   selling hot dogs on a stick that you [TS]

01:20:29   know you on your iPad big stubby [TS]

01:20:33   artificial finger thing and like it took [TS]

01:20:34   so long for them to get through their [TS]

01:20:36   skulls like people want to draw on these [TS]

01:20:37   things they're buying these terrible [TS]

01:20:39   devices that do it for guns to make a [TS]

01:20:40   pencil and they did finally right there [TS]

01:20:42   are so many obvious things they can do [TS]

01:20:44   they can make a much bigger form factor [TS]

01:20:46   if you want to see the microsoft already [TS]

01:20:48   gone the whole product that you can rip [TS]

01:20:50   off ideas from or get inspired from you [TS]

01:20:52   can do more things with multitasking and [TS]

01:20:54   simply splitting the screen you can do [TS]

01:20:56   more things with hot keys and with the [TS]

01:20:58   little floating windows like that this [TS]

01:21:00   tons of obvious things they can do and [TS]

01:21:03   you know the the thing tomorrow we'll [TS]

01:21:04   talk about something about are you know [TS]

01:21:06   and then my the first was to interview [TS]

01:21:07   that I did just after iOS came out i [TS]

01:21:10   think it may be the very first one after [TS]

01:21:11   it was clear there was some crossover [TS]

01:21:13   between them it was like is it easier to [TS]

01:21:16   make the mac more like iOS 42 or to make [TS]

01:21:18   us more like the mac like it easier to [TS]

01:21:20   simplify mac OS or brings capabilities [TS]

01:21:23   of the mac ios and I think it at said [TS]

01:21:26   then I think now is much easier to add [TS]

01:21:28   the capabilities of the mac to iOS [TS]

01:21:31   without messing up that is to the [TS]

01:21:33   reverse because as soon as you start [TS]

01:21:35   trying to make the mac to be like iOS [TS]

01:21:36   you totally destroyed usefulness for the [TS]

01:21:39   people who want to use it for like the [TS]

01:21:40   current use cases and there's no [TS]

01:21:42   replacement for that if on the other [TS]

01:21:43   hand you take iOS which is a clean slate [TS]

01:21:45   and was much cleaner back then than it [TS]

01:21:47   is now but a clean slate and tried to [TS]

01:21:50   get let people do the more complicated [TS]

01:21:51   stuff with like he said progressive [TS]

01:21:54   disclosures it is a much easier thing to [TS]

01:21:57   do and you get a chance to do it in a [TS]

01:21:58   different way over there and while [TS]

01:22:00   you're doing that you're not screwing up [TS]

01:22:01   professionals who presumably can still [TS]

01:22:02   use your max and if you're doing a good [TS]

01:22:04   job on iOS you're also not screwing up [TS]

01:22:06   people who never use that functionality [TS]

01:22:07   and arguably that's what Apple has been [TS]

01:22:09   doing by making the ipad [TS]

01:22:10   throw by making the 12-point whatever [TS]

01:22:12   enjoy bet by making the pencil by adding [TS]

01:22:14   multitasking but boy did take them a [TS]

01:22:16   long time and they're still stubborn [TS]

01:22:18   about you know about going all the way [TS]

01:22:21   like I I don't know what I don't know [TS]

01:22:24   what they're holding out for out there [TS]

01:22:25   waiting for I know maybe they're waiting [TS]

01:22:26   for people to die and have us to change [TS]

01:22:28   but i agree with Marco and that like the [TS]

01:22:30   use cases aren't going to change people [TS]

01:22:32   would like to do them with less [TS]

01:22:33   complications but if they can't do it [TS]

01:22:34   unless complications they just want to [TS]

01:22:36   do them period like though they you know [TS]

01:22:38   they have to do them because it is part [TS]

01:22:39   of their job and if you don't give them [TS]

01:22:41   a simpler way to do it they will limp [TS]

01:22:43   along with the more complicated wait [TS]

01:22:44   until and unless somebody could be [TS]

01:22:46   Microsoft could be anybody else gives [TS]

01:22:48   them away to literally do the same [TS]

01:22:49   really complicated jobs with less and [TS]

01:22:52   less concerns with you know less [TS]

01:22:54   fighting with the Machine and apple [TS]

01:22:56   still seems like like like Marcus like [TS]

01:22:58   give them a little bit does this move [TS]

01:23:01   the needle is the ipad really Pro device [TS]

01:23:03   now because we made a slightly bigger [TS]

01:23:04   one and give you a pencil it helps it [TS]

01:23:06   doesn't hurt right but my service to do [TS]

01:23:09   is like what are you even doing you know [TS]

01:23:10   what was the the mean you're like a [TS]

01:23:13   little baby and the 28 inch Microsoft [TS]

01:23:16   service studio that's how Apple Apple [TS]

01:23:19   Apple should feel but am I the [TS]

01:23:21   impression I get from the [TS]

01:23:22   personification of Apple as they still [TS]

01:23:24   really wish people didn't have to do [TS]

01:23:25   such complicated things computers it [TS]

01:23:27   seemed like there was put out by [TS]

01:23:28   people's actual needs we are sponsored [TS]

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01:25:10   thank you very much too hello fresh for [TS]

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01:25:13   I think you are right that it is easier [TS]

01:25:19   to advance the ipad probably then then [TS]

01:25:23   two then to lock down or dumb down the [TS]

01:25:26   mac and that is a you know your argument [TS]

01:25:28   about like you know leaving that behind [TS]

01:25:29   you know how bad that would be versus [TS]

01:25:31   bring along my people that makes a lot [TS]

01:25:33   of sense i still think it's going to be [TS]

01:25:36   hard we still don't really know if the [TS]

01:25:37   ipad can do these things well and we [TS]

01:25:40   still don't see massive efforts from [TS]

01:25:43   apple in the software Department we see [TS]

01:25:46   interesting efforts in the harbor [TS]

01:25:48   Department like as like an image i [TS]

01:25:50   mentioned past shows like the ipad pro [TS]

01:25:52   9.7 is amazing and the top line is also [TS]

01:25:56   amazing for people who like even bigger [TS]

01:25:58   ones but like a 9.7 being like the kind [TS]

01:26:00   of like average mainstream ipad it is [TS]

01:26:02   amazing hardware like it the the [TS]

01:26:05   hardware is better than ever as is [TS]

01:26:07   usually the case the hardware is better [TS]

01:26:10   than ever [TS]

01:26:10   they're doing fine on the hardware but [TS]

01:26:13   the software is harder to do because [TS]

01:26:15   it's it's a more significant and [TS]

01:26:17   trickier design challenge and it takes a [TS]

01:26:20   lot of investment to to massively move [TS]

01:26:23   software around and there's also there's [TS]

01:26:27   too much as i want to mention here that [TS]

01:26:28   I that are I think problems big problems [TS]

01:26:31   for the ipad one is the application [TS]

01:26:34   ecosystem [TS]

01:26:36   apps that are that are like used by [TS]

01:26:37   professionals or content creation or [TS]

01:26:40   just a lot of productivity apps are just [TS]

01:26:43   really really mature and stable and [TS]

01:26:46   usually much more financially healthy on [TS]

01:26:49   the mac and when these applications have [TS]

01:26:51   tried to move to ipad they've had pre [TS]

01:26:53   mixed success some of them work many of [TS]

01:26:55   them don't [TS]

01:26:56   many of them work like you I wise to [TS]

01:26:59   some degree with a lot of work but then [TS]

01:27:01   failed business wise you know they don't [TS]

01:27:03   sell enough and don't forget money and [TS]

01:27:04   so the companies aren't interested in [TS]

01:27:06   investing in the further or can't afford [TS]

01:27:08   to bring over more of their apps or [TS]

01:27:09   whatever else that's a huge problem with [TS]

01:27:12   the app store and with customer [TS]

01:27:14   expectations for pricing for these [TS]

01:27:16   things and that significantly hurts the [TS]

01:27:19   ipad and there's no end in sight to that [TS]

01:27:22   really the like there's there's been a [TS]

01:27:25   couple things apple has tried to maybe [TS]

01:27:27   help moving a little bit like on now you [TS]

01:27:29   can do subscriptions and that's cool but [TS]

01:27:30   it doesn't seem like that's really [TS]

01:27:32   helping a lot of that they could totally [TS]

01:27:34   tie up the entire market for pro user [TS]

01:27:36   who routinely spend their day using a [TS]

01:27:38   12.5 inch screen like those people like [TS]

01:27:40   great i can now switch my work ipad and [TS]

01:27:42   get all nobody does that nobody sits at [TS]

01:27:45   the desk doing any complicated app on a [TS]

01:27:47   12.5 inch screen like the screen size [TS]

01:27:49   alone i feel like is a disqualification [TS]

01:27:50   even if you can get lightroom like [TS]

01:27:52   exactly lightroom exactly how it is like [TS]

01:27:54   it's you know s10 on your iPad when you [TS]

01:27:57   choose to use it on a 12.5 inch screen [TS]

01:27:59   when you can use it on a five-time [TS]

01:28:00   nobody would deny it I disagree [TS]

01:28:03   I just must have to be part of Bobby's [TS]

01:28:05   like the whole use cases portability I [TS]

01:28:06   got to do is on the go or whatever like [TS]

01:28:08   it's the portability of thing but I'm [TS]

01:28:10   but portability is as a only concern for [TS]

01:28:13   people who are not currently sitting in [TS]

01:28:14   a dark room at a desk plugging away [TS]

01:28:16   their computers working as he thinks our [TS]

01:28:18   are working on photoshop all day are you [TS]

01:28:21   know like or even if you just doing big [TS]

01:28:23   cad drawings or just assembling a big [TS]

01:28:25   presentation like some people need to be [TS]

01:28:28   on the go and portability is important [TS]

01:28:30   yada yada but everything mark was [TS]

01:28:32   talking about all these applications [TS]

01:28:33   with like strong financial foundations [TS]

01:28:35   and you know they they charge a lot of [TS]

01:28:37   money and people routinely upgrade and [TS]

01:28:39   stuff like I feel the only company that [TS]

01:28:41   destroying that line is maybe Microsoft [TS]

01:28:43   with its office applications i have a [TS]

01:28:44   feeling still subsidized but they're the [TS]

01:28:46   best [TS]

01:28:46   this is an omni which is still selling [TS]

01:28:48   expensive mac apps and still making [TS]

01:28:51   partner apps that also work on iOS four [TS]

01:28:53   when you want to do the same stuff but [TS]

01:28:55   portably but almost everybody else is [TS]

01:28:57   like like how are you gonna get the guy [TS]

01:28:59   off the desk when you're only offering [TS]

01:29:01   them a 12.5 inch screen like there's so [TS]

01:29:03   many remaining hardware barriers to [TS]

01:29:05   success in this area that Apple just [TS]

01:29:07   like Marco said like didn't see an end [TS]

01:29:08   in sight because he's like I don't see a [TS]

01:29:10   ball coming out of the 28 inch ipad [TS]

01:29:11   doesn't make any sense it's not an ipad [TS]

01:29:13   anymore you're right it's not something [TS]

01:29:14   else but you're never going to get those [TS]

01:29:15   people off their desks if you force them [TS]

01:29:18   to use a portable form factor all the [TS]

01:29:20   time and it's not there's also a lot to [TS]

01:29:22   be said for using the scene application [TS]

01:29:24   from a 12 inch laptop all the way up to [TS]

01:29:27   a 30 inch display on a desktop like you [TS]

01:29:30   you can use the same at you can write [TS]

01:29:31   one app for the PC operating system you [TS]

01:29:34   can have it show up for all those screen [TS]

01:29:36   sizes and you can have people both [TS]

01:29:38   portably and at their desks using this [TS]

01:29:40   one app so it's easier to develop that [TS]

01:29:43   app it's easier to sell it people who [TS]

01:29:44   buy or not to buy one copy of it like [TS]

01:29:47   that's a huge advantage that's true but [TS]

01:29:51   I think I think you guys are are over [TS]

01:29:54   emphasizing your own needs and not [TS]

01:29:56   considering the needs of other kinds of [TS]

01:29:58   users and there is a distinct advantage [TS]

01:30:01   to being a single machine person and [TS]

01:30:04   that machine could be a 13 inch iPad [TS]

01:30:07   there's a distinct advantage to never [TS]

01:30:10   having to rearrange your windows every [TS]

01:30:12   time you plug in an external there's a [TS]

01:30:14   distinct advantage to having a simpler [TS]

01:30:17   experience just because cad doesn't work [TS]

01:30:21   on a 12 inch screen which I bet it could [TS]

01:30:23   but it certainly wouldn't be as easy as [TS]

01:30:25   a 40 inch screen just because cat [TS]

01:30:27   doesn't doesn't mean everything doesn't [TS]

01:30:29   and I think a lot of people value having [TS]

01:30:32   one machine that they can carry anywhere [TS]

01:30:34   I mean look at me I i generally speaking [TS]

01:30:38   for most of my life had a single laptop [TS]

01:30:42   that was my everything computer and yes [TS]

01:30:44   there were compromises for sure but I [TS]

01:30:47   preferred having one machine that always [TS]

01:30:50   had all of my stuff always because that [TS]

01:30:54   was better to me and that was it that [TS]

01:30:56   was a trade-off I was willing to make [TS]

01:30:58   and just because a cat [TS]

01:30:59   operator for designer what-have-you [TS]

01:31:01   doesn't necessarily want to make that [TS]

01:31:03   trade that doesn't mean that everyone [TS]

01:31:06   doesn't want to make that trade and I [TS]

01:31:08   mean look at all the people that that [TS]

01:31:10   have macbook airs that may or may not [TS]

01:31:12   plug them into external monitors all the [TS]

01:31:14   time like those are small displays they [TS]

01:31:16   aren't even read nightmare may not be [TS]

01:31:17   dry because they may or may not be dry [TS]

01:31:19   to you never know and they can keep your [TS]

01:31:22   liquids away from your computer's kids [TS]

01:31:23   anyway so I i don't i'm not trying to [TS]

01:31:27   say that you're wrong John or Marco but [TS]

01:31:29   i think that that there is a spectrum [TS]

01:31:31   here that you're not really giving [TS]

01:31:33   credit that Marcos context was [TS]

01:31:35   specifically about pro applications that [TS]

01:31:39   are expensive there have a foundation on [TS]

01:31:41   the mac cells people who use them for [TS]

01:31:43   work and those are the people you can't [TS]

01:31:45   pry away from their desks with the 12.5 [TS]

01:31:47   inch screen right [TS]

01:31:49   obviously there's tons of people again [TS]

01:31:50   like I said we're just doing you know [TS]

01:31:51   they're just messing around without [TS]

01:31:52   looking sending emails and doing web [TS]

01:31:54   browsing and writing stuff up and [TS]

01:31:55   talking with other people and chat [TS]

01:31:56   applications like by all means like a [TS]

01:31:58   man it's just a question of whether you [TS]

01:31:59   want a laptop or hardware keyboard also [TS]

01:32:01   stuff like that and even even within the [TS]

01:32:03   realm of your single machine being an [TS]

01:32:05   ipad with a two terabyte flash drive in [TS]

01:32:06   it you can sit down you disconnected up [TS]

01:32:08   to a massive 28 inch touchscreen and [TS]

01:32:10   have like service to do when you're [TS]

01:32:12   sitting and when you pick it up an ipad [TS]

01:32:13   gets back to marco was saying ability to [TS]

01:32:15   sell one app that scales a different [TS]

01:32:17   screen sizes like you can if you buy [TS]

01:32:19   lightroom on the pc and you have a 5k [TS]

01:32:21   imac or a 5k external screen assume your [TS]

01:32:24   Wi-Fi routers in nearby [TS]

01:32:25   oh and you connected to your laptop [TS]

01:32:28   right but but again that is an [TS]

01:32:31   experience that the ipad does not offer [TS]

01:32:33   at all [TS]

01:32:34   you've got a 12.5 inch screen and that's [TS]

01:32:36   what you're stuck with whether you're at [TS]

01:32:37   a desk or not you can't sell one version [TS]

01:32:39   of your application that can you can use [TS]

01:32:41   all the different screens no matter how [TS]

01:32:42   you want to do what you want to single [TS]

01:32:43   machine multiple machine or whatever the [TS]

01:32:45   ipad does not address that at all for [TS]

01:32:47   hardware reasons that you know it and [TS]

01:32:49   that's all that's over saying like good [TS]

01:32:51   specifically talking about high-end [TS]

01:32:53   people you will never dislodge them in [TS]

01:32:55   you know until like the ARV our realm [TS]

01:32:57   comes and things are being projected [TS]

01:32:58   onto the redness or something and we [TS]

01:33:00   don't care big screens are and this is [TS]

01:33:01   all a moot point but for now anyway the [TS]

01:33:05   hardware limitations of I [TS]

01:33:07   the outfit and the software and the [TS]

01:33:09   application ecosystems that Apple has [TS]

01:33:10   chosen for itself are necessarily [TS]

01:33:13   limiting that Microsoft has made [TS]

01:33:14   different choices but they have so many [TS]

01:33:16   other challenges that are unrelated to [TS]

01:33:17   the quality or potential of their [TS]

01:33:19   products so we're still just sitting [TS]

01:33:22   here patiently waiting for Apple to make [TS]

01:33:24   its next progression of the ipad but it [TS]

01:33:27   just seems like a blitz to be dragged [TS]

01:33:28   kicking and screaming into into the [TS]

01:33:31   future and in the meantime they've been [TS]

01:33:32   chopping out the legs underneath the mac [TS]

01:33:34   and helping people get all their work [TS]

01:33:35   done and even simpler situations on the [TS]

01:33:37   mac and if I can't have fun dealing with [TS]

01:33:39   third-party monitor when the other [TS]

01:33:42   problem so you know I mentioned the the [TS]

01:33:44   applications issue which is what got us [TS]

01:33:47   on this big tangent but the other [TS]

01:33:49   problem Casey is what you do we were [TS]

01:33:50   just talking about it is really nice to [TS]

01:33:53   have one machine for lots of reasons [TS]

01:33:55   lots of people have one machine for [TS]

01:33:57   price concerns alone [TS]

01:33:59   that's a huge concern because a decent [TS]

01:34:01   SPECT ipad is not cheap like if you buy [TS]

01:34:05   an ipad it's any good [TS]

01:34:07   you're lucky to be out of there for less [TS]

01:34:08   than 600 bucks and that's without any [TS]

01:34:10   accessories if you actually want a [TS]

01:34:11   keyboard or a cover or anything it's so [TS]

01:34:14   easy to spend like eight nine dollars [TS]

01:34:16   and it just to get what you consider [TS]

01:34:18   like a mid-range I've had with you know [TS]

01:34:20   a couple of accessories that they kind [TS]

01:34:22   of are required him to make it very [TS]

01:34:24   useful to you a lot of people just [TS]

01:34:26   cannot justify $500,000 on this [TS]

01:34:31   in-between device when they already have [TS]

01:34:33   a phone which covers most of their ultra [TS]

01:34:35   mobile and ultra-simple needs and they [TS]

01:34:37   already might have a computer a laptop [TS]

01:34:40   and so people who want only one device [TS]

01:34:45   that one device so often now i'm not [TS]

01:34:49   going to say I'm not even gonna say most [TS]

01:34:50   of the time I'm not even sometimes but [TS]

01:34:52   that one device often can't be an iPad [TS]

01:34:55   because that one day and assuming the [TS]

01:34:58   phone is always gonna be there because [TS]

01:34:59   it doesn't mean I'm talking 1 divided [TS]

01:35:00   between iPad or computer so often that [TS]

01:35:04   can't be an iPad because of things like [TS]

01:35:06   we were just complaining about hardware [TS]

01:35:07   limitations of just made things don't [TS]

01:35:09   make it in this size you can plug in an [TS]

01:35:11   external screen or whatever else there [TS]

01:35:13   are so many limitations with iPads that [TS]

01:35:15   if you need to do something outside of [TS]

01:35:18   what is considered and [TS]

01:35:21   and optimized for by Apple you hit a [TS]

01:35:23   brick wall and you just can't it's like [TS]

01:35:26   well that the answer that you just can't [TS]

01:35:27   do that or you hit what appears to be a [TS]

01:35:30   brick wall and there might be some kind [TS]

01:35:33   of power user app to work around that [TS]

01:35:34   but you might not know that as a typical [TS]

01:35:37   I've had user or you might have an app [TS]

01:35:39   where you might not want to spend the [TS]

01:35:40   money for the app or whatever else so [TS]

01:35:41   that they're just there are so many hard [TS]

01:35:44   brick walls that you hit when trying to [TS]

01:35:47   do any kind of edge case thing or even [TS]

01:35:49   some pretty common things on iPads and [TS]

01:35:52   iOS and if you're one device is a [TS]

01:35:56   computer it might be less fun or harder [TS]

01:35:59   or more complicated to use but there are [TS]

01:36:02   far fewer of those brick walls the [TS]

01:36:05   computer is like it's you know just [TS]

01:36:07   partly from legacy partly from [TS]

01:36:09   architecture partly from hardware [TS]

01:36:11   ecosystem the computer is the everything [TS]

01:36:15   device it can do so so much especially [TS]

01:36:18   when combined with a phone because then [TS]

01:36:20   like the phone covers your ultra mobile [TS]

01:36:22   your camera and then the computer covers [TS]

01:36:24   like everything else for so many people [TS]

01:36:26   if they can only have or if they only [TS]

01:36:29   want or they can only justify paying for [TS]

01:36:32   one device besides their phone [TS]

01:36:34   the idea that it would be a tablet is [TS]

01:36:37   not high on their list because they they [TS]

01:36:41   need to do something or they want to do [TS]

01:36:42   something that they prefer the way [TS]

01:36:43   something is done that can only be done [TS]

01:36:45   on a computer and that trying to an iOS [TS]

01:36:48   either impossible or really it just [TS]

01:36:50   fight you the whole time and that's what [TS]

01:36:52   you were saying earlier about wanting to [TS]

01:36:54   maybe you know get a small laptop and [TS]

01:36:56   instead of your your retina ipad mini [TS]

01:36:57   sorry Stephen again there are these all [TS]

01:37:00   these walls that you hit trying to do [TS]

01:37:02   things with iOS that while many people [TS]

01:37:04   can do great work on iOS and love doing [TS]

01:37:08   it [TS]

01:37:08   I think they are minority you know [TS]

01:37:11   everyone can always point to you know [TS]

01:37:13   power users like the teaching who like [TS]

01:37:15   use the ipad late for everything and you [TS]

01:37:18   can point to everyone has like a [TS]

01:37:20   relative or a friend who's like a novice [TS]

01:37:23   at using computers and the ipad is the [TS]

01:37:25   only computer but there's a lot of [TS]

01:37:28   people in between and for so many of the [TS]

01:37:31   people in between a pc style operating [TS]

01:37:34   system and [TS]

01:37:34   see style hardware is the only way they [TS]

01:37:37   can get their needs salt and one device [TS]

01:37:38   today [TS]

01:37:40   well that's true and again this could [TS]

01:37:42   change in the future but I think [TS]

01:37:44   changing that would require so many [TS]

01:37:47   changes and expansions to both iOS and [TS]

01:37:51   ipad hardware that that just seemed very [TS]

01:37:54   unlikely that apple would ever do and [TS]

01:37:57   that's why I think it's fairly unlikely [TS]

01:37:58   that we're going to get to that point I [TS]

01:38:00   think it's much more likely that we're [TS]

01:38:01   going to keep going where we are for a [TS]

01:38:03   while which is Apple strategy is [TS]

01:38:06   basically we're gonna keep selling you [TS]

01:38:07   these devices that are kind of in this [TS]

01:38:09   big Venn diagram or all the circles [TS]

01:38:12   overlap like a third of the way with [TS]

01:38:14   other circles and and we just want to [TS]

01:38:17   know apples a hardware company they want [TS]

01:38:18   to sell you more hardware so Apple is [TS]

01:38:20   perfectly fine have the strategy be 0 [TS]

01:38:23   for you you like parts of this device in [TS]

01:38:25   part of this device you should buy both [TS]

01:38:27   yeah like that's I have a feeling that [TS]

01:38:30   maybe the strategy for a long time but [TS]

01:38:31   as long as the strategy [TS]

01:38:33   the ipad is never going to replace the [TS]

01:38:35   mac and this shouldn't mix if there's a [TS]

01:38:38   future for any kind of mainstream [TS]

01:38:40   mainstream and power computing on Apple [TS]

01:38:42   devices the ipad better not replace the [TS]

01:38:44   mac unless it has significant changes [TS]

01:38:46   but again i don't see it just seems very [TS]

01:38:49   unlikely that the Apple that we know [TS]

01:38:52   today would do the kind of changes to [TS]

01:38:54   both ipad OS and hardware that would [TS]

01:38:58   enable it to fully replace the mac it [TS]

01:39:01   must be tough and imagine how stinky it [TS]

01:39:04   is to have to worry about charging your [TS]

01:39:06   computer every day and and got imagine [TS]

01:39:09   how crummy it would be to have to like [TS]

01:39:11   carry on like that like a brick that you [TS]

01:39:14   need to charge it that's like big and [TS]

01:39:16   heavy imagine you know for me I can just [TS]

01:39:18   charge wherever I have a USB port and [TS]

01:39:20   imagine how crummy it would be if any [TS]

01:39:22   time I wanted to get on the internet i [TS]

01:39:24   have to have Wi-Fi [TS]

01:39:25   ok yes i have a phone in my pocket but [TS]

01:39:27   but i can just flip on my little [TS]

01:39:29   cellular switch and suddenly i have [TS]

01:39:31   Wi-Fi in the device amusing imagine how [TS]

01:39:34   crummy it would be to not be able to [TS]

01:39:36   tear your keyboard off the device [TS]

01:39:37   because he just really don't need it you [TS]

01:39:39   know you're not gonna need it for a [TS]

01:39:40   while [TS]

01:39:41   imagine how crummy it would be to feel [TS]

01:39:44   like you can't always bring your [TS]

01:39:46   one device every where you're going [TS]

01:39:48   because it's this big computer and yeah [TS]

01:39:49   okay they're smaller than they used to [TS]

01:39:51   be and there's certainly more portable [TS]

01:39:52   than they used to be but man it would [TS]

01:39:55   stink if I felt if I felt like I had to [TS]

01:39:57   have this like big like laptop bag help [TS]

01:39:59   barbaric is that what kind of pants you [TS]

01:40:01   putting an ipad into a curiosity [TS]

01:40:04   actually I can't fit a mini in in a [TS]

01:40:05   couple of my jackets not my pants but my [TS]

01:40:08   jackets but I just cars got got laptops [TS]

01:40:10   in every pocket of all day but I mean [TS]

01:40:14   imagine imagine how boring it would be [TS]

01:40:16   to have to use a mac every day when you [TS]

01:40:18   can just touch and swipe swipe your way [TS]

01:40:20   in and through getting worked on [TS]

01:40:21   I'm being silly and i started the show [TS]

01:40:24   by saying I don't really know there's an [TS]

01:40:26   ipad there if there's a place and in my [TS]

01:40:29   life for an ipad anymore but I [TS]

01:40:31   absolutely understand how it would be [TS]

01:40:35   possible to prefer an ipad for all the [TS]

01:40:39   reasons I don't like it and i think that [TS]

01:40:42   the three of us are too preoccupied with [TS]

01:40:44   our own needs and our own desires and [TS]

01:40:46   our own wats in and I think there are [TS]

01:40:48   plenty of people that are that that [TS]

01:40:51   would prefer an ipad pro be that a 10 [TS]

01:40:53   inch or 12 inch or 9.7 what have you [TS]

01:40:56   that that would prefer for all those [TS]

01:40:57   things and the teaching is an example of [TS]

01:41:00   this and yes I acknowledge that he is [TS]

01:41:02   like way on the other side of the [TS]

01:41:03   spectrum but i don't think a lot of his [TS]

01:41:06   desires are that unusual to have an LTE [TS]

01:41:10   equipped device to have only one device [TS]

01:41:13   to have to manage again like you Marco I [TS]

01:41:15   agree that the phone is just a given to [TS]

01:41:17   have something where the software is [TS]

01:41:19   always the software he has it always [TS]

01:41:21   looks the same regardless of what yo [TS]

01:41:23   it's because the device is always the [TS]

01:41:25   same size [TS]

01:41:26   it's a guy I feel like there's so many [TS]

01:41:29   advantages to living in ipad only life [TS]

01:41:32   that are disadvantages to me their [TS]

01:41:34   disadvantages to you too but they are [TS]

01:41:37   advantages to some people [TS]

01:41:39   sure and I think we're I think we're all [TS]

01:41:41   dis all three of us are discounting that [TS]

01:41:44   there's plenty of real work that can be [TS]

01:41:47   done [TS]

01:41:48   maybe not Cat maybe not development [TS]

01:41:50   maybe video editing maybe not maybe [TS]

01:41:53   podcast editing maybe not but there's a [TS]

01:41:56   lot of real work that can be done on [TS]

01:41:58   ipad today [TS]

01:41:59   and all the rumblings I've heard is that [TS]

01:42:01   things are going to get a lot more [TS]

01:42:03   interesting in the next few months so [TS]

01:42:04   imagine what will be possible tomorrow I [TS]

01:42:07   don't think any of us are just coming at [TS]

01:42:09   all that you have been listening to us [TS]

01:42:10   we've been talking specifically about hi [TS]

01:42:11   I'm we are we totally concede that the [TS]

01:42:14   vast majority were only talking about [TS]

01:42:16   the ion that's all we're talking about [TS]

01:42:17   but but my point is that your high-end [TS]

01:42:19   it when you say high-end it it it [TS]

01:42:25   implies i'm trying to think how to [TS]

01:42:27   describe this I feel like you feel like [TS]

01:42:29   the high-end is the Empire State [TS]

01:42:30   Building into me the high-end is the [TS]

01:42:31   mighty black stop and that Pete that [TS]

01:42:35   there are people that came out that in [TS]

01:42:37   this analogy is falling apart already [TS]

01:42:38   but I i think that you that you guys are [TS]

01:42:41   treating this mythical high-end is this [TS]

01:42:43   on it's about it doesn't matter if it's [TS]

01:42:45   a real thing [TS]

01:42:46   okay you're treating this high-end is [TS]

01:42:48   this thing that could never be [TS]

01:42:49   accomplished by a single touch devices I [TS]

01:42:51   don't think that's the case [TS]

01:42:52   no I'm not trying at all i'm saying the [TS]

01:42:54   opposite i'm saying the ipad could [TS]

01:42:55   totally do all this stuff Apple has been [TS]

01:42:57   reluctant to extended to do so [TS]

01:42:58   yeah yeah i mean because like the [TS]

01:43:00   hardware power is there the the will of [TS]

01:43:04   people to want to carry an ipad into [TS]

01:43:06   these things on it is there it's it's [TS]

01:43:09   really just a very strong problem of the [TS]

01:43:13   ipad OS really not being a advanced [TS]

01:43:17   enough and and being too high friction [TS]

01:43:20   for the way a lot of people want to work [TS]

01:43:22   and they like me anyways we will need to [TS]

01:43:24   work on the app store and upgrades and [TS]

01:43:27   you know and the hardware flexibility [TS]

01:43:29   and like it like it [TS]

01:43:31   the apples are making steps in that [TS]

01:43:32   direction remember they weren't making [TS]

01:43:33   any steps and direction for a long time [TS]

01:43:35   and that was frustrating it was like it [TS]

01:43:36   was static and but they say they have [TS]

01:43:38   been making moves and as Marco [TS]

01:43:39   characterize it there sporadic moves and [TS]

01:43:42   they move a little bit each time and [TS]

01:43:44   they hang out in between and if they [TS]

01:43:47   move faster would be more dramatic but [TS]

01:43:48   you know we don't really if they have to [TS]

01:43:51   choose whether to put the resources [TS]

01:43:52   behind the next iPhone or the next iPad [TS]

01:43:54   like the iphone is movable yeah it's not [TS]

01:43:57   a choice [TS]

01:43:58   you're right somebody you know so who [TS]

01:43:59   knows maybe they will accelerate or [TS]

01:44:00   whatever but like I'm heartened by any [TS]

01:44:03   kind of progress because it's as if they [TS]

01:44:06   a you know they cannot with the mac pro [TS]

01:44:08   that was a weird trash can and I waited [TS]

01:44:10   a year and then they let you have 2 CPUs [TS]

01:44:12   and 1g [TS]

01:44:13   view and waited a year and then they [TS]

01:44:16   upgraded the GPU to be not really old [TS]

01:44:18   and waited a year that's not great [TS]

01:44:20   essentially what we got if it's better [TS]

01:44:22   than what we got so on the ipad where [TS]

01:44:24   it's like oh finalists have multitasking [TS]

01:44:26   and then wait a year [TS]

01:44:28   oh here's a pencil to and then wait a [TS]

01:44:30   year like this is good this is you know [TS]

01:44:31   but it's not as good as it could be but [TS]

01:44:32   it's better than you know the high end [TS]

01:44:34   of the mac or the like [TS]

01:44:35   nope that's not a thing anymore just buy [TS]

01:44:38   what we sell thanks to our sponsors this [TS]

01:44:41   week [TS]

01:44:42   hello fresh audible and away we will see [TS]

01:44:45   you next week [TS]

01:44:46   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:44:51   mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

01:44:56   it was accidental Jonathan [TS]

01:45:00   only research Margo and Casey would [TS]

01:45:04   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:45:07   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:45:11   know today p dot and if your twitter [TS]

01:45:16   follow them [TS]

01:45:19   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:45:25   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are see that [TS]

01:45:33   Syracuse it [TS]

01:45:45   so today scoop German has written a post [TS]

01:45:53   saying that Apple well let me just read [TS]

01:45:56   the headline apple is said to work on [TS]

01:45:58   Mac chip that would lessen Intel role [TS]

01:46:00   and I think that actually has changed i [TS]

01:46:02   think it was a different headline [TS]

01:46:03   earlier but integrates a the slug for [TS]

01:46:05   the original headline Apple developing [TS]

01:46:07   new mac ship in test of Intel [TS]

01:46:09   independence which is certainly a little [TS]

01:46:11   more aggressive which is not true an [TS]

01:46:13   inaccurate headline so that's why they [TS]

01:46:14   changed it but they never change the [TS]

01:46:15   slugs because people make terrible CMS's [TS]

01:46:17   that don't let you change the slug or if [TS]

01:46:18   they do let you know never changes them [TS]

01:46:20   like the people i think people don't see [TS]

01:46:21   you or else I know safari heightened by [TS]

01:46:23   default but come on people anyway so [TS]

01:46:25   there's a delightful autoplay video [TS]

01:46:28   that's going on here which is the most [TS]

01:46:29   frustrating thing in the entire world [TS]

01:46:30   but anyway the the article in short [TS]

01:46:34   seems to say hey there's this t1 ship [TS]

01:46:37   that was done to power the touch bar [TS]

01:46:40   that's arm-based what if you're like [TS]

01:46:43   power nap for example there's this new [TS]

01:46:46   chip that apparently been codenamed t310 [TS]

01:46:48   because that matters but anyway this [TS]

01:46:51   this mythical t310 ship could handle [TS]

01:46:54   power nap and wake up and do those sorts [TS]

01:46:56   of things then go back to sleep and [TS]

01:46:58   because arm just zips power that would [TS]

01:47:00   be flawless and perfect so that's the [TS]

01:47:03   way forward is is we can slowly encroach [TS]

01:47:06   on Intel's territory by making an ARM [TS]

01:47:09   chip that's used when convenient and [TS]

01:47:11   then use the intel chip for all the [TS]

01:47:13   other time so it's an interesting [TS]

01:47:16   premise it's certainly not something [TS]

01:47:18   that I really considered but i like the [TS]

01:47:21   idea that I don't know if I really buy [TS]

01:47:23   that it would be flexible enough short [TS]

01:47:26   of like virtualization should be a [TS]

01:47:27   terrible idea and ruin most power [TS]

01:47:29   savings that it would be flexible enough [TS]

01:47:31   to just do anything on this problem this [TS]

01:47:33   mythical arm processor but you know [TS]

01:47:37   maybe like via the extension framework [TS]

01:47:39   and I saw somebody else talk about this [TS]

01:47:40   earlier the extensions maybe could you [TS]

01:47:42   know have something have an extension [TS]

01:47:44   that's our compiled forearm and the rest [TS]

01:47:46   of the app is compiled for until I don't [TS]

01:47:47   know but it's certainly a fascinating [TS]

01:47:49   idea and every sign that i can see all [TS]

01:47:53   of the tea leaves are pointing to apple [TS]

01:47:55   at least exploring getting rid of Intel [TS]

01:47:57   and using their own chips even if it's [TS]

01:48:00   not anytime soon so John what do you [TS]

01:48:02   think there's a weird story because like [TS]

01:48:05   the chip that powers the touch bar like [TS]

01:48:07   its it sense it only makes sense that [TS]

01:48:10   there will be a successor to that ship [TS]

01:48:12   that powers such bar on the next [TS]

01:48:14   generation things that maybe will be a [TS]

01:48:15   little better in a bunch of waste like [TS]

01:48:16   short granted and whatever that chips [TS]

01:48:18   code-named is fine and we already know [TS]

01:48:19   it's a little arm CPU and run some [TS]

01:48:21   little mini thing of iOS and you could [TS]

01:48:25   use it to do smart things when the intel [TS]

01:48:28   cpu is asleep right where the story gets [TS]

01:48:32   fuzzy is like alright so the power nap [TS]

01:48:35   stuff like first of all I'm not sure [TS]

01:48:39   that stuff your computer does when it's [TS]

01:48:42   essentially a sleeping you're not using [TS]

01:48:43   it is a really big source of power draw [TS]

01:48:45   like like idle power people on your list [TS]

01:48:48   anymore laptop reviews how long can I [TS]

01:48:50   leave this laptop asleep before the [TS]

01:48:52   battery trends like that's not that's [TS]

01:48:54   not a very common use case like oh I [TS]

01:48:55   need to be able to leave it in my house [TS]

01:48:56   for a week in sleep mode and come back [TS]

01:48:58   and have a hundred percent battery [TS]

01:48:59   well it's not gonna happen nobody even [TS]

01:49:01   test that I and it's not a common use [TS]

01:49:03   case know it does happen it's like now [TS]

01:49:05   it's like a month because what they do [TS]

01:49:06   is after I think like eight hours or [TS]

01:49:08   whatever if a vital time and I believe [TS]

01:49:10   you can tweak that time out with some [TS]

01:49:11   kind of you know any ram command it goes [TS]

01:49:14   into full hibernate mode like I didn't [TS]

01:49:16   happen to do so even a full hybrid [TS]

01:49:17   battery string that's why you don't [TS]

01:49:18   bring a test of fire island because [TS]

01:49:20   you're a true friend that's why i'm [TS]

01:49:21   ready i'm pretty sure that these the [TS]

01:49:22   idle time has been about a month since [TS]

01:49:24   like the 2012 retina macbook pro right [TS]

01:49:27   but let's not use case they care about [TS]

01:49:28   so we're putting a lot of investment [TS]

01:49:30   into making that use case even better [TS]

01:49:32   like now it's two months [TS]

01:49:33   like who cares that's not a selling [TS]

01:49:34   point it's not a big thing you know and [TS]

01:49:37   the second the idea that that this thing [TS]

01:49:40   would be able to do the stuff that [TS]

01:49:41   happens during power nap parent app like [TS]

01:49:43   the computers basically asleep but it [TS]

01:49:46   wakes up the real live cpu periodically [TS]

01:49:49   to do stuff in a lower clock lower power [TS]

01:49:51   type way doesn't turn on the screen that [TS]

01:49:53   and doesn't turn on the fan in the cases [TS]

01:49:56   of modern computers with fans I think's [TS]

01:49:57   right but it's still running the real [TS]

01:50:00   software in a limited capacity it and it [TS]

01:50:02   has to be running something that has the [TS]

01:50:05   ability to do I owe to the disk or you [TS]

01:50:07   know to the SSD essentially these you [TS]

01:50:08   can't receive your email [TS]

01:50:10   due time machine backups if you can't do [TS]

01:50:12   I owe to the disk it i have a hard time [TS]

01:50:15   believing that they would be an arm CPU [TS]

01:50:18   in there they could not wake up the [TS]

01:50:20   intel cpu at all which is still the main [TS]

01:50:22   see Beauty system but wake up and [TS]

01:50:24   somehow run code for your mail [TS]

01:50:25   application to fetch mail and do I owe [TS]

01:50:27   to your disk all the Intel CPU is asleep [TS]

01:50:29   even if you're compiling extensions with [TS]

01:50:32   armed binaries and shipping them off to [TS]

01:50:34   the little arm CPU to run and like and [TS]

01:50:37   that that little cpu is going to have [TS]

01:50:38   access to IO and it's a it's such a [TS]

01:50:41   weird situations like what are you even [TS]

01:50:42   optimizing for so it makes me look at [TS]

01:50:44   the story and think there's totally [TS]

01:50:46   accessories t1 it is better and more [TS]

01:50:48   capable and will do more things like [TS]

01:50:50   perhaps listening for a sit-down my max [TS]

01:50:51   like fiu Syria and the same way but will [TS]

01:50:54   it do everything will do all that power [TS]

01:50:56   nap stuff and third-party applications [TS]

01:50:58   to run arbitrary code in the background [TS]

01:51:00   without waking the intel cpu I mean it [TS]

01:51:02   could something this is technically [TS]

01:51:03   impossible but it seems like that is not [TS]

01:51:06   a use case that Apple we would be [TS]

01:51:07   investing money in whereas I think they [TS]

01:51:09   would invest money in you know making [TS]

01:51:11   serie better or have it only listen it [TS]

01:51:13   always listening for stuff for have it [TS]

01:51:15   be able to do more sophisticated things [TS]

01:51:17   having to do with the management the [TS]

01:51:19   system but once it starts changing into [TS]

01:51:21   actual applications running code whether [TS]

01:51:24   they be first part of your third party [TS]

01:51:25   without waking up the intel cpu and [TS]

01:51:28   doesn't seem like it's worth be the [TS]

01:51:30   hardware OS and software investment to [TS]

01:51:33   make that work because the benefit is [TS]

01:51:35   not something you would sell about [TS]

01:51:36   things that people would notice [TS]

01:51:37   yeah i think this is this is a yet [TS]

01:51:40   another case where a rumor article that [TS]

01:51:44   that you know has good sourcing gets [TS]

01:51:47   probably the gist of the facts correct [TS]

01:51:49   but the story wrong it seems like this [TS]

01:51:53   is not like Apple trying to reduce their [TS]

01:51:56   depends on intelligence chip supplier it [TS]

01:51:59   seems much more likely that it's like [TS]

01:52:01   well we are putting this chip in in [TS]

01:52:04   these machines for the touch bar anyway [TS]

01:52:06   so we have this whole little embedded [TS]

01:52:08   arm computer in these machines that uses [TS]

01:52:10   almost no power like work were included [TS]

01:52:12   hardware anyway so can we have it do [TS]

01:52:16   anything else can we have it be more [TS]

01:52:18   useful than what it's doing now while [TS]

01:52:20   the computer is not needing it for [TS]

01:52:21   anything else because its community we [TS]

01:52:23   have all this [TS]

01:52:24   great stuff in here let's figure out if [TS]

01:52:26   they can if they can help us out any [TS]

01:52:27   other way i think it's probably gonna [TS]

01:52:29   you know the facts here are plausible it [TS]

01:52:32   is probably truly there to do very [TS]

01:52:34   little power tasks what those low-power [TS]

01:52:37   tasks include is another story and and I [TS]

01:52:40   don't think this is at all indicative [TS]

01:52:42   that Apple is slowly gonna cut Intel out [TS]

01:52:45   and and make our max like they might be [TS]

01:52:49   doing that in the future who knows but i [TS]

01:52:51   don't think this is related to that this [TS]

01:52:53   it seems like a totally separate project [TS]

01:52:56   or or task here because it seems like [TS]

01:52:58   what they're doing here is more [TS]

01:53:01   effectively utilizing the resources they [TS]

01:53:03   already have in these computers and are [TS]

01:53:05   already building in any way and it would [TS]

01:53:08   be such a technical challenge and such a [TS]

01:53:10   hurdle and so much complexity to have [TS]

01:53:13   this chip meaningfully take over lots of [TS]

01:53:16   what the intel cpu is doing any kind of [TS]

01:53:18   like major application level thing like [TS]

01:53:21   I think you mentioned you know that it [TS]

01:53:23   would be probably an extension and you [TS]

01:53:25   know that would be an arm extension [TS]

01:53:27   hey if it's successful third parties at [TS]

01:53:29   all we were just the way Apple's App [TS]

01:53:31   implanted it is probably like you know a [TS]

01:53:33   little extension kind of thing that is [TS]

01:53:35   native arm code that can run here and [TS]

01:53:37   John I share your concern about like [TS]

01:53:39   what does have access to the disc [TS]

01:53:41   somehow like at how does that work how [TS]

01:53:43   does how does the you know how does it [TS]

01:53:45   interact with or all the buses and Wi-Fi [TS]

01:53:48   and write operations like it's like a [TS]

01:53:49   dual cpu system with two different CPU [TS]

01:53:51   instructions that's what you get you [TS]

01:53:53   could you could do it like this is all [TS]

01:53:54   technically possible but that's held an [TS]

01:53:55   investment and I just don't see the [TS]

01:53:57   benefit right exactly so that's why I [TS]

01:53:59   think it's more likely that this is a [TS]

01:54:01   real story but that the task is going to [TS]

01:54:04   do we're going to be very very limited [TS]

01:54:06   and it's not a big deal [TS]

01:54:09   it doesn't mean anything about Apple's [TS]

01:54:10   relationship with Intel for the future [TS]

01:54:12   of possible our macbooks that is all [TS]

01:54:15   totally separate discussions and it [TS]

01:54:18   seems much more likely that this is [TS]

01:54:19   mostly a non-issue something that they [TS]

01:54:22   might mention in a keynote for two [TS]

01:54:23   seconds that we would immediately forget [TS]

01:54:25   about it could be headlining feature if [TS]

01:54:27   they if they use it right so one example [TS]

01:54:28   is you could do a Windows 10 style face [TS]

01:54:31   recognition thing not to let you in [TS]

01:54:33   because that's terrible because people [TS]

01:54:34   just print out a picture [TS]

01:54:35   your face and get access to your [TS]

01:54:36   computer but even just something as [TS]

01:54:37   simple as hey it's always listening for [TS]

01:54:39   you and there's proximity detectors to [TS]

01:54:42   see when you're close by and when you [TS]

01:54:43   sit down in front of your sleeping [TS]

01:54:45   computer it does face recognition with [TS]

01:54:46   the camera to realize who you are to [TS]

01:54:48   bring you your login prompt like even if [TS]

01:54:50   it was on a different user so you don't [TS]

01:54:52   have to like pick the user or do a thing [TS]

01:54:54   like that would be a good use of a [TS]

01:54:57   fairly capable a low-power cpu that has [TS]

01:55:01   access to some things as access to the [TS]

01:55:02   camera has access to his own proximity [TS]

01:55:04   detectors access to touch ID and the [TS]

01:55:05   secure Enclave and can do stuff with the [TS]

01:55:07   touch bar that doesn't involve okay I'm [TS]

01:55:10   taking over power not to mention like [TS]

01:55:11   the power nap the reason it works and it [TS]

01:55:13   works even better now is because you can [TS]

01:55:14   make these intel cpu running super [TS]

01:55:16   underclock great turning off most of the [TS]

01:55:18   course like they're pretty efficient [TS]

01:55:20   like a sky like in super duper low-power [TS]

01:55:22   mode with half of the chip disabled is [TS]

01:55:25   actually pretty good you can let like [TS]

01:55:27   yeah the most of the power is going to [TS]

01:55:28   be from your Wi-Fi radio trying to do [TS]

01:55:31   your time machine backup and all your [TS]

01:55:32   SSD access the cpu is not the problem [TS]

01:55:34   there so even if you're going to let [TS]

01:55:36   power not happen at all [TS]

01:55:37   you're not worried oh I can't have this [TS]

01:55:39   intel cpu running it at 600 megahertz [TS]

01:55:41   with one core enable doing my thing it's [TS]

01:55:45   because the SSD and the Wi-Fi are going [TS]

01:55:47   to overall that anyway but but anyway [TS]

01:55:49   back to the little arm chip if that the [TS]

01:55:51   future i just described like face [TS]

01:55:52   recognition proximity detection touch ID [TS]

01:55:54   blah blah thats that's a keynote a [TS]

01:55:56   keynote mobile feature right there and [TS]

01:55:58   it's not a big deal technically speaking [TS]

01:55:59   and they already have the hardware there [TS]

01:56:00   it's an easy win it's a cool thing is [TS]

01:56:02   something microsoft store already done [TS]

01:56:04   apple can pretend they don't know that [TS]

01:56:05   and just pretend they invented it and [TS]

01:56:06   we'll all when AA and just like we like [TS]

01:56:09   sitting down to use touch ID to unlock [TS]

01:56:10   our computers we like sitting down and [TS]

01:56:12   shared environment having know that it's [TS]

01:56:14   us and wake from sleep and shows our [TS]

01:56:16   password prompt even if someone else was [TS]

01:56:17   logged in so it thinks oh shit [TS]