The Accidental Tech Podcast

208: Your Face Is Your Face


00:00:00   that is going to make an awesome [TS]

00:00:01   after-show it's not really because it's [TS]

00:00:03   going to be just a white dude and [TS]

00:00:05   moaning about his expensive car it's [TS]

00:00:07   gonna be terrible at show and we're [TS]

00:00:08   gonna keep it in and people are going to [TS]

00:00:10   like it and that the water to people who [TS]

00:00:12   don't like it have long since stopped [TS]

00:00:13   listening [TS]

00:00:16   alright so people have suggested that [TS]

00:00:20   this phantom version of the mac which [TS]

00:00:25   includes an arm coprocessor if you will [TS]

00:00:28   maybe that's used for power nap i still [TS]

00:00:30   skeptical that would be a reasonable use [TS]

00:00:31   case but be that as it may their people [TS]

00:00:35   have used an example of apparently [TS]

00:00:36   there's something in the playstation 4 [TS]

00:00:38   which apparently is a console that [TS]

00:00:40   people apparently play video games with [TS]

00:00:42   I didn't realize that was still thing [TS]

00:00:43   but anyway it has a rest mode that I [TS]

00:00:45   guess work similarly right John [TS]

00:00:47   yeah so this is the last show we are [TS]

00:00:50   talking about the arm CPU actually being [TS]

00:00:53   able to function and do useful work when [TS]

00:00:55   the intel cpus off which would mean that [TS]

00:00:57   the arm CPU would need access to all the [TS]

00:00:59   same stuff you know all the i/o and [TS]

00:01:02   networking and all the other stuff [TS]

00:01:04   regardless of what software runs rather [TS]

00:01:06   runs just you know a bunch of apple [TS]

00:01:08   software that Apple supplies as part of [TS]

00:01:10   the OS or other third parties can ship [TS]

00:01:11   arm compiled binaries to it that it [TS]

00:01:13   would be a full fledge cpu able to do [TS]

00:01:16   useful work and I was saying how that is [TS]

00:01:19   pretty complicated if the only benefit [TS]

00:01:22   you're getting out of it is we can do [TS]

00:01:24   power nap on the arm CPU instead of the [TS]

00:01:27   intel cpu and it remains to be seen if [TS]

00:01:31   they win the next involved we have some [TS]

00:01:32   more suggestions of things this thing [TS]

00:01:33   can do to justify that complexity but [TS]

00:01:35   the ps4 is actually an example of this [TS]

00:01:39   actual thing in practice because ps4 is [TS]

00:01:42   an x86 cpu and when you put into rest [TS]

00:01:46   mode it's basically like the thing is [TS]

00:01:48   turned off the fans are often everything [TS]

00:01:50   it doesn't make any noise just sits [TS]

00:01:51   there but it's not completely off off [TS]

00:01:54   and what it does in this mode is it will [TS]

00:01:56   like download update giant updates your [TS]

00:01:58   games it will charge your controllers [TS]

00:02:00   ubel and do other sort of background [TS]

00:02:03   tasks that don't require to be on but [TS]

00:02:06   still mean it's doing useful work it [TS]

00:02:08   will do obviously with downloading is [TS]

00:02:09   using stuff over the network and in that [TS]

00:02:12   rest mode [TS]

00:02:13   it's according to this feedback we've [TS]

00:02:15   gotten much i'm i'm perfectly willing to [TS]

00:02:17   believe I haven't looked into it huh [TS]

00:02:18   extensively it's not using the Intel CPU [TS]

00:02:21   is using a separate arm chip just to do [TS]

00:02:24   this stuff and that's an example the [TS]

00:02:29   next day 26 and arm CPU in a box and [TS]

00:02:31   when the the x86 CPU is turned off the [TS]

00:02:34   arm CPU is able to do all that stuff is [TS]

00:02:36   able to do you know manipulate stuff on [TS]

00:02:38   the hard drive its able to use [TS]

00:02:40   networking is able to do all the you [TS]

00:02:41   know things and that is an additional [TS]

00:02:43   complexity that is worth it for the ps4 [TS]

00:02:46   because it is fixing all the sins of the [TS]

00:02:49   ps3 that every time you want to turn the [TS]

00:02:51   thing on and play a game you have to [TS]

00:02:53   download 50 update since I want you to [TS]

00:02:54   do that for 12 hours i wasn't home ps3 [TS]

00:02:56   wouldn't even charge your controllers [TS]

00:02:58   when it was turned off the ps3 you plug [TS]

00:03:00   them in you know like I'm playing the [TS]

00:03:01   game like the worst so the ps4 fixes all [TS]

00:03:04   this and so it's an obvious one on the [TS]

00:03:06   console and it's you know it's down to [TS]

00:03:10   the instructions that exactly what a the [TS]

00:03:12   they were talking about for this rumored [TS]

00:03:14   apple laptop question remains is that [TS]

00:03:17   additional complexity and i'm sure it's [TS]

00:03:19   additional complexity worthwhile for a [TS]

00:03:21   mac and so we had one of the suggestion [TS]

00:03:24   for something that the arm CPU could do [TS]

00:03:26   that is useful that doesn't require [TS]

00:03:29   third-party developers to make [TS]

00:03:31   extensions that with armed code compiled [TS]

00:03:34   to it and ship it off there and you also [TS]

00:03:35   stuff like that [TS]

00:03:36   David Barton ski suggested good old [TS]

00:03:39   photos and face recognition in her like [TS]

00:03:42   when you first get your mac or at any [TS]

00:03:43   point like we're wandering over your [TS]

00:03:45   photos finding all the faces do it or [TS]

00:03:46   doing the image recognition nowadays [TS]

00:03:48   like figure out everything that the [TS]

00:03:50   house or whatever so you can do searches [TS]

00:03:52   later that would be perfect thing to do [TS]

00:03:54   when your mac is in rest mode or asleep [TS]

00:03:57   or whatever and it will require maybe [TS]

00:04:00   networking access depending on how much [TS]

00:04:01   cloud stuff they do for the image [TS]

00:04:02   recognition but certainly would require [TS]

00:04:04   disk access is that worth the added [TS]

00:04:08   complexity of making a mac that can run [TS]

00:04:10   either on an x86 CPU or arms if you're [TS]

00:04:13   depending on Moton maybe after that [TS]

00:04:17   first of all the photo recognition thing [TS]

00:04:19   like I hope they fix that in this fall [TS]

00:04:22   software updates like make that sink [TS]

00:04:24   already everything else about photo [TS]

00:04:25   sinks [TS]

00:04:26   like the fact that every device has to [TS]

00:04:28   do that is not only a terrible hack with [TS]

00:04:30   awkward results sometimes but it just [TS]

00:04:34   destroys the battery life and [TS]

00:04:36   performance of the computers & ipad iOS [TS]

00:04:39   devices for the first like three days [TS]

00:04:42   that you get them and that is that's [TS]

00:04:43   just a bad initial user experience for [TS]

00:04:45   everybody but somebody's gotta do it [TS]

00:04:47   like I know people might have multiple [TS]

00:04:49   devices but one one of the devices has [TS]

00:04:51   to do it and that device is the victim [TS]

00:04:53   no matter it's great that will be shared [TS]

00:04:55   like all just you know but i thought i [TS]

00:04:56   would imagine for a lot of people like [TS]

00:04:57   the phone would be the victim because [TS]

00:04:59   that's where they take the pictures and [TS]

00:05:01   who knows people even have photos [TS]

00:05:02   thinking on their my ayaat I feel bad [TS]

00:05:05   that any device has to be subject to [TS]

00:05:08   this I mean the only they could change [TS]

00:05:10   change the policy by saying we won't do [TS]

00:05:13   a image recognition unless nobody is [TS]

00:05:17   using the computer nobody's using the [TS]

00:05:19   device and it's plugged in like this the [TS]

00:05:20   only do it when you're sleeping and it's [TS]

00:05:22   plugged in all that they already attempt [TS]

00:05:24   to do that and like it does it it does [TS]

00:05:26   stop when you are unplugged on the [TS]

00:05:29   laptops most of the time however its it [TS]

00:05:33   takes forever to the point where like [TS]

00:05:35   you never know when you plug in like is [TS]

00:05:36   it has been the fan up and then you [TS]

00:05:38   unplug it like how long will it take [TS]

00:05:40   before it pauses and use the discrete [TS]

00:05:42   GPU with exaggerated any kind of GPU [TS]

00:05:44   sticking on bugs [TS]

00:05:45   it's it's just kind of a mess on iOS [TS]

00:05:47   even worse than like your phone is [TS]

00:05:48   really hot for the first while that you [TS]

00:05:50   have any likewise my phone so how did [TS]

00:05:52   something wrong with it is gonna catch [TS]

00:05:53   fire like eh it's just really in elegant [TS]

00:05:56   and and really sets up very bad user [TS]

00:05:58   experiences for anybody who's setting up [TS]

00:06:00   and iOS Mac device that isn't their [TS]

00:06:03   first one ever [TS]

00:06:04   and that's they really really need to [TS]

00:06:06   address that in this year's updates like [TS]

00:06:08   that cannot wait [TS]

00:06:10   yeah so i'm not sure would be better if [TS]

00:06:13   instead did it [TS]

00:06:15   wall here while I was asleep because [TS]

00:06:17   obviously will take away longer to do it [TS]

00:06:19   was sleeping i really only Apple knows [TS]

00:06:22   for sure but like what are the usage [TS]

00:06:24   patterns for devices that are plugged in [TS]

00:06:28   not iOS devices because they're they're [TS]

00:06:30   never asleep awake like when the screens [TS]

00:06:33   off basically that's a no sleep like [TS]

00:06:34   when they're plugged in overnight in [TS]

00:06:35   charging that's when they should be [TS]

00:06:37   doing the photo stuff it that's the only [TS]

00:06:39   device [TS]

00:06:39   from max I don't know the defaults are [TS]

00:06:42   but i imagine if you walk away from your [TS]

00:06:44   Mac it will be on for some period of [TS]

00:06:45   time and then I think the default is to [TS]

00:06:47   go to sleep after like not that long [TS]

00:06:50   time and if you can't do any photo [TS]

00:06:53   recognition stuff in the background and [TS]

00:06:56   sleep mode normally like a power nap [TS]

00:06:57   doesn't do any of it now that's always [TS]

00:07:00   the time so all the only time your mac [TS]

00:07:02   has to do photos is when it unattended [TS]

00:07:04   is like the one hour between when you [TS]

00:07:07   stop using it and when it goes to sleep [TS]

00:07:08   according to the default energy saver [TS]

00:07:10   settings or whatever [TS]

00:07:11   whereas it could have had 12 hours just [TS]

00:07:13   plinking away with his little arm CPU so [TS]

00:07:14   maybe that would help a little bit but [TS]

00:07:15   again i have to you know the complexity [TS]

00:07:18   of having a second full-fledged cpu with [TS]

00:07:19   access to all the same things as the [TS]

00:07:21   intel cpu is significant and i'm still [TS]

00:07:24   so far i'm still on the page that a it's [TS]

00:07:27   much smarter to use that cpu for [TS]

00:07:30   auxiliary functions that have to do with [TS]

00:07:32   the hardware is the last time a [TS]

00:07:34   proximity sensor camera microphone you [TS]

00:07:38   know sort of like a a glorified m1 m1 or [TS]

00:07:41   m7 what was that the original motion [TS]

00:07:44   detecting step counting thing and the [TS]

00:07:45   iphone the enemy eat [TS]

00:07:48   still we're going to be a BMW on the [TS]

00:07:49   brain at m7 fm7 there you go [TS]

00:07:53   the 1m because the m1 was a totally [TS]

00:07:54   different car anyway yeah huh yeah just [TS]

00:07:58   having dedicated hardware / functions [TS]

00:08:01   related to the hardware and that's [TS]

00:08:04   perfect for a little CPU and the only [TS]

00:08:05   reason we're talking about this at all [TS]

00:08:07   this is already there to run the touch [TS]

00:08:08   bar it's like it's already there and [TS]

00:08:10   you're just saying how can I get more [TS]

00:08:11   bang for my buck from this thing that i [TS]

00:08:12   already have to put it's not like we're [TS]

00:08:14   looking through a bunch of new chips [TS]

00:08:16   into think it's already in these this [TS]

00:08:18   laptop so I believe that the next [TS]

00:08:23   version or version after that of this [TS]

00:08:25   they'll find new things to do is ship [TS]

00:08:26   they should because they're paying for [TS]

00:08:27   the chip and it's there and when it's [TS]

00:08:29   not doing anything fancy on-screen give [TS]

00:08:31   it something else to do they have they [TS]

00:08:33   have they have good arm chips and they [TS]

00:08:34   have a good Oster on them so why waste [TS]

00:08:37   it [TS]

00:08:38   speaking of face recognition windows [TS]

00:08:41   hello [TS]

00:08:42   whatever that may be does some really [TS]

00:08:44   weird and fancy stuff with their face [TS]

00:08:46   recognition [TS]

00:08:47   yeah I made a joke about a [TS]

00:08:48   face-recognition not being good for [TS]

00:08:50   security because that will just print [TS]

00:08:52   out a picture face and holds it up [TS]

00:08:53   and they unlock your laptop didn't [TS]

00:08:56   specifically say that that was the [TS]

00:08:57   vulnerability of windows hello because [TS]

00:08:58   they didn't know much about it but many [TS]

00:08:59   people wrote in to say that windows [TS]

00:09:01   hello actually uses depth maps too so [TS]

00:09:04   you can just hold up a picture because I [TS]

00:09:06   want something that not only looks like [TS]

00:09:07   your face but is contoured and shaped [TS]

00:09:09   like your face so people would have to [TS]

00:09:12   make a basically a mannequin of your [TS]

00:09:13   face instead of just a picture which is [TS]

00:09:15   harder and interfaces vs fingerprints [TS]

00:09:20   think a lot of people bring up like well [TS]

00:09:21   it's just like it's just like [TS]

00:09:22   fingerprints like people can lift your [TS]

00:09:24   finger prints pretty easily [TS]

00:09:25   I feel like it's still look at the apt [TS]

00:09:27   comparison is local versus remoto [TS]

00:09:29   exploit local exploits like this a [TS]

00:09:31   million basically if someone has [TS]

00:09:32   physical access your computer in most [TS]

00:09:34   cases game over as far as security for a [TS]

00:09:37   variety of reasons for fingerprints they [TS]

00:09:40   need to have physical access to either [TS]

00:09:41   you or something you've touched to list [TS]

00:09:43   your fingerprints and there's been many [TS]

00:09:44   demonstrations the web like how you can [TS]

00:09:45   love someone fingerprint you can unlock [TS]

00:09:46   their iphone because you know [TS]

00:09:48   fingerprints just series of ridges and [TS]

00:09:49   we can get them out and make a little [TS]

00:09:50   plastic mold of it and you're going [TS]

00:09:52   right now [TS]

00:09:54   usually you can't get fingerprints from [TS]

00:09:57   a normal photo of people like if you're [TS]

00:09:59   walking down the street and someone [TS]

00:10:00   snaps a picture of you [TS]

00:10:01   they can't lift your fingerprints from [TS]

00:10:03   that fixture or if they go you [TS]

00:10:05   they probably won't find closeup [TS]

00:10:07   pictures of your fingerprints or [TS]

00:10:08   anything you've touched a resolution [TS]

00:10:09   where they can lift your fingerprints [TS]

00:10:11   but for most people you can find plenty [TS]

00:10:13   of pictures of their face and you could [TS]

00:10:17   fairly that not easily but much more [TS]

00:10:19   easily remotely without ever being [TS]

00:10:22   anywhere near that person or anything [TS]

00:10:23   they've touched reproduce their face in [TS]

00:10:26   the 3d manner from a series of photos [TS]

00:10:27   that are taking out all under different [TS]

00:10:29   angles and make it use a 3d printer to [TS]

00:10:32   make a little mold and then print out a [TS]

00:10:34   picture that face and slap it on to the [TS]

00:10:36   mannequin and it should rule the depth [TS]

00:10:38   sensors and fools the the camera and you [TS]

00:10:41   unlock their saying with their face [TS]

00:10:42   again this is kind of like mission [TS]

00:10:45   impossible whatever stuff if someone is [TS]

00:10:47   this determined to attack you it's [TS]

00:10:48   probably much better just to call you [TS]

00:10:50   until and tell you there for microsoft [TS]

00:10:52   and they want to reset your password [TS]

00:10:52   because that's much easier way to get [TS]

00:10:54   into stuff but thinking about this and [TS]

00:10:57   how easy it is to pull your fingerprints [TS]

00:11:00   vs make a 3d model of your face versus [TS]

00:11:02   whatever has reminded me once again [TS]

00:11:05   of the trouble we'll all biometric [TS]

00:11:07   security which we all be seen like the [TS]

00:11:09   future you know [TS]

00:11:10   sci-fi movies they always put their [TS]

00:11:12   hands on things are doing retina scans [TS]

00:11:14   or where you know we're living in the [TS]

00:11:15   future now with fingerprints i use my [TS]

00:11:17   fingerprint to unlock my phone all the [TS]

00:11:18   time I love it's awesome but the trouble [TS]

00:11:21   with all biometrics is if they are [TS]

00:11:24   compromised in any way if people have [TS]

00:11:27   your fingerprints or have a nice 3d [TS]

00:11:29   model of your face you can't change [TS]

00:11:32   those things you can't say well i'm [TS]

00:11:33   gonna use a new set of fingerprints [TS]

00:11:34   always rotate your fingerprints don't [TS]

00:11:36   use the same fingerprints and multiple [TS]

00:11:37   sites guys [TS]

00:11:38   your fingerprints are your fingerprints [TS]

00:11:40   and for the most part your face is your [TS]

00:11:41   face so once compromise their compromise [TS]

00:11:43   forever [TS]

00:11:44   you can't use your fingerprint in the [TS]

00:11:46   whole world has hi-res images of your [TS]

00:11:47   fingerprints [TS]

00:11:48   your fingerprints are useless never mind [TS]

00:11:50   that this country anyway law enforcement [TS]

00:11:52   can make you put your stupid thing on [TS]

00:11:53   the thing anyway but just in general [TS]

00:11:55   biometrics there unlike passwords that [TS]

00:11:59   you can change the rotator whatever you [TS]

00:12:00   can't change them even your retinas if [TS]

00:12:02   you do a retina skin and someone has [TS]

00:12:03   like a detailed map of your retina makes [TS]

00:12:05   a little thing I've all of the retina [TS]

00:12:06   scan it you can't use retina scans [TS]

00:12:07   anymore it's bad and if it became [TS]

00:12:11   commonplace it's the definition of [TS]

00:12:13   repeating your password you only have [TS]

00:12:14   ten fingers right getting able with [TS]

00:12:16   different finger on each secure thing [TS]

00:12:18   and yeah so internal biometrics are [TS]

00:12:21   great convenience but if we get in in [TS]

00:12:23   sci-fi movies are you anyway they always [TS]

00:12:26   presented as a much more secure way like [TS]

00:12:28   how you can't get in because you don't [TS]

00:12:30   have my eyeball my finger and then [TS]

00:12:31   didn't take long for the movies to have [TS]

00:12:33   to shift into gouging people's eyeballs [TS]

00:12:35   out and cutting off their hands to get [TS]

00:12:36   their fingerprints [TS]

00:12:37   there's another downside of biometrics [TS]

00:12:39   but in general I think biometrics [TS]

00:12:41   settling in to be the casual convenience [TS]

00:12:44   feature is the reason i unlock my phone [TS]

00:12:46   with it because who wants to type in [TS]

00:12:47   some big long password every time your [TS]

00:12:49   unlock your phone but not for increased [TS]

00:12:52   security very security we're still stuck [TS]

00:12:56   with for now big giant passwords and [TS]

00:12:59   multiple factors i love that ripping out [TS]

00:13:02   somebody's eyes and cutting off the [TS]

00:13:04   fingers is is described by you john is a [TS]

00:13:06   downside i mean it is it's a pretty [TS]

00:13:10   significant downside my book though no [TS]

00:13:12   one's gonna do that unless you're in a [TS]

00:13:14   year ago you know a sci-fi movie like [TS]

00:13:16   this no one cares that much about [TS]

00:13:17   crap and again it's not there much [TS]

00:13:18   easier ways to get your crap like just [TS]

00:13:20   forcing you to put your finger on it [TS]

00:13:21   because you're not a big tough guy but [TS]

00:13:22   in the movies to get into your villains [TS]

00:13:25   lair that you know you cut off the guy's [TS]

00:13:27   hand cut off the entrance and then you [TS]

00:13:29   just showed on the panel didn't uh Tom [TS]

00:13:32   Cruise's character do that Minority [TS]

00:13:34   Report you got two eyes been done so [TS]

00:13:35   many times so many times we are brought [TS]

00:13:39   to you this week by set appt the [TS]

00:13:41   revolutionary new service for [TS]

00:13:43   discovering and using the best apps for [TS]

00:13:45   your mac what if there's a way to know [TS]

00:13:47   that every app you installed was safe [TS]

00:13:49   always updated and of the highest [TS]

00:13:50   quality that is what set appt is here to [TS]

00:13:53   do that was developed by Mac paw they've [TS]

00:13:55   actually been previous sponsoring the [TS]

00:13:57   show with a clean my mac a lot of [TS]

00:13:59   products and they've created many [TS]

00:14:01   successful apps for the mac they've been [TS]

00:14:02   mapped developers themselves for years [TS]

00:14:05   and they know the market really well [TS]

00:14:07   they know what customers want and they [TS]

00:14:09   know what developers want developers [TS]

00:14:11   want a way to make consistent stable [TS]

00:14:14   revenue from their products without [TS]

00:14:15   having to mess with the complexity of [TS]

00:14:17   things like upgrade pricing and trials [TS]

00:14:19   and everything else and customers want [TS]

00:14:21   to know that they can go to a storefront [TS]

00:14:24   or a collection that has the best apps [TS]

00:14:27   they can they don't have to like worry [TS]

00:14:28   about looking through the looking [TS]

00:14:30   through million reviews and trying to [TS]

00:14:32   figure out which apps have hidden in app [TS]

00:14:33   purchases or ads or anything like that [TS]

00:14:35   they just want someone else to pick for [TS]

00:14:37   them to curate this collection for them [TS]

00:14:38   to give them what's best mac Paul has [TS]

00:14:41   done this with set appt setup gives you [TS]

00:14:43   easy access to their curated library of [TS]

00:14:46   quality mac apps like Ulysses [TS]

00:14:48   rapidweaver cleanmymac ultimate player [TS]

00:14:51   and many many more [TS]

00:14:53   and you get all this as a user for just [TS]

00:14:55   a flat monthly subscription fee you get [TS]

00:14:58   access to the entire library no matter [TS]

00:15:00   how many apps use you can use all of [TS]

00:15:01   them if you want to and you just pay [TS]

00:15:03   this low monthly rate it's a huge [TS]

00:15:06   library of prime mac apps that you get [TS]

00:15:09   for one fixed rate per month with no ads [TS]

00:15:11   no paid upgrades when a new version [TS]

00:15:13   comes out you just get it did give you [TS]

00:15:15   the best collection of helpful useful [TS]

00:15:17   high-quality mac software right at your [TS]

00:15:19   fingertips try today at set app.com once [TS]

00:15:23   again that set appt setiap set app.com [TS]

00:15:26   to try out setup see for yourself [TS]

00:15:29   thank you very much to set up for spot [TS]

00:15:30   during our show ah alright so there's [TS]

00:15:36   been a little bit of a sort of kind of [TS]

00:15:39   back and forth between our show and one [TS]

00:15:43   host across to other shows which is a [TS]

00:15:46   friend of the show my curly he is talked [TS]

00:15:50   on his to podcast upgrade and connected [TS]

00:15:52   about some arguments or counter [TS]

00:15:56   arguments about whether or not the ipad [TS]

00:15:59   is worth apples attention and you really [TS]

00:16:01   should listen to both upgrade connected [TS]

00:16:03   in wealth in general but particularly [TS]

00:16:05   the latest episodes will put links in [TS]

00:16:07   the show notes i'm going to try to [TS]

00:16:11   unfairly summarize Mike's points and [TS]

00:16:14   then I anything to hear this [TS]

00:16:17   yeah and hen Marco can add his two cents [TS]

00:16:20   about about all this [TS]

00:16:22   I what I got from what Mike said was hey [TS]

00:16:25   if you look at modern iPads and modern [TS]

00:16:30   max where you define modern slightly [TS]

00:16:33   arbitrarily but basically can run the [TS]

00:16:35   most recent versions of iOS and mac OS I [TS]

00:16:39   don't remember the exact numbers but you [TS]

00:16:41   know modern max by that definition go go [TS]

00:16:43   back like between five and ten years and [TS]

00:16:46   modern iPads go back i think around five [TS]

00:16:48   years something like that the particular [TS]

00:16:49   numbers don't really matter that much [TS]

00:16:51   the conclusion that my came to was hey [TS]

00:16:55   if you look at the sales and thus [TS]

00:16:58   assumed install base of modern max and [TS]

00:17:03   modern iOS devices are excuse me iPads [TS]

00:17:06   there like twice as many ipads as there [TS]

00:17:09   are max so if there's that many ipads in [TS]

00:17:12   the wild [TS]

00:17:13   shouldn't that be where Apple puts most [TS]

00:17:16   of its attention because presumably all [TS]

00:17:19   of these ipads are still in use and [TS]

00:17:21   presumably at least a subset of these [TS]

00:17:24   owners your ipad owners are using them [TS]

00:17:26   for and I'm doing scare quotes here work [TS]

00:17:28   stuff so shouldn't that be where Apple [TS]

00:17:31   puts all of its attention maybe not all [TS]

00:17:33   but a lot of its attention and that's a [TS]

00:17:35   super super super summarized version [TS]

00:17:37   again listen to connected and upgrade [TS]

00:17:39   actually the reverse order listen okay [TS]

00:17:41   first but anyway list of them to get the [TS]

00:17:43   longer [TS]

00:17:44   students but that that's kind of what i [TS]

00:17:46   got from it is that fair to say yeah I [TS]

00:17:48   think so I mean and this was this was in [TS]

00:17:50   response to what a lot of people were [TS]

00:17:53   talking about after the earnings came [TS]

00:17:55   out what do we do now about about how [TS]

00:17:59   ipad sales continue to drop and many [TS]

00:18:01   people commented on this with theories [TS]

00:18:03   myself included both on my blog and then [TS]

00:18:06   we talked about on the show last week [TS]

00:18:07   and you know many many people at every [TS]

00:18:10   time there's quarterly earnings that [TS]

00:18:12   come out and it shows the ipad sales are [TS]

00:18:13   going down which happened a lot in the [TS]

00:18:15   last few years everyone has these [TS]

00:18:18   theories about well here's why the ipad [TS]

00:18:20   has failed his failing or you can get [TS]

00:18:22   real work on honor or whatever else and [TS]

00:18:24   so if you are an ipad pro heavy user [TS]

00:18:28   like Mike and Federico and and some [TS]

00:18:31   other friends are then this makes sense [TS]

00:18:34   to be defensive about because it's it's [TS]

00:18:38   very hard to separate out these [TS]

00:18:40   arguments into like individual things to [TS]

00:18:43   talk about a lot of times people are [TS]

00:18:45   arguing past each other because they're [TS]

00:18:47   not quite hearing what the other [TS]

00:18:50   argument was or they're responding more [TS]

00:18:52   to a general feeling or to a general [TS]

00:18:54   kind of trend of where the commentary is [TS]

00:18:57   or has been rather than what somebody [TS]

00:19:00   actually said or what people are [TS]

00:19:01   actually trying to figure out there's [TS]

00:19:03   there's nuance to all this stuff so part [TS]

00:19:05   of what Mike and Jason on upgrade were [TS]

00:19:08   responding to was not just what we said [TS]

00:19:11   but i think a lot of it was based on [TS]

00:19:13   awesome what we said and what i wrote my [TS]

00:19:15   blog post about what if the ipod is in [TS]

00:19:17   the future of computing and and so I do [TS]

00:19:19   want to address this so hopefully [TS]

00:19:21   briefly here and I'm actually I'm [TS]

00:19:24   working with Mike we actually might do a [TS]

00:19:25   little special with me and Mike arguing [TS]

00:19:27   about it and maybe next week sometime [TS]

00:19:28   will do i get not to get to participate [TS]

00:19:31   in that [TS]

00:19:32   who says I'm right about everything you [TS]

00:19:33   guys at argue about which one who were [TS]

00:19:35   all who will have another these episodes [TS]

00:19:39   but it seems like it was like mike vs [TS]

00:19:41   Marco but like I said stuff to didn't [TS]

00:19:43   anyone disagree with stuff I said you [TS]

00:19:45   had hit you don't worry I you and I were [TS]

00:19:47   kind of lumped in together anyway so [TS]

00:19:49   that's unfair [TS]

00:19:50   yeah that's right haha i do that would [TS]

00:19:53   get you [TS]

00:19:53   anyway so here's here's my actual [TS]

00:19:57   position here obviously people are [TS]

00:20:00   getting real worked on ipads not every [TS]

00:20:02   ipad owner of course but as Mike [TS]

00:20:04   accurately pointed out [TS]

00:20:06   not every mac is sold and used to do [TS]

00:20:08   quote real work whatever that means [TS]

00:20:10   Mike's main point was was also that you [TS]

00:20:12   know the ipad obviously even even with [TS]

00:20:15   the downward slope of its sales curve is [TS]

00:20:17   still selling like two two-and-a-half [TS]

00:20:19   times unit sales of what max you're [TS]

00:20:22   selling and and there are still way more [TS]

00:20:25   ipads out there then max and and so [TS]

00:20:27   therefore this is this really is your a [TS]

00:20:29   serious platform and I'm not arguing [TS]

00:20:32   against any of that actually my main [TS]

00:20:35   argument with with my post and hopefully [TS]

00:20:39   if I express a property last week is [TS]

00:20:41   that the ipad is presented in so many [TS]

00:20:47   views both from apple and from analysts [TS]

00:20:49   and fans as quote the future of [TS]

00:20:52   computing and what I interpret that to [TS]

00:20:53   mean is a replacement ultimately or [TS]

00:20:57   largely a replacement for the pc in the [TS]

00:21:00   back but were mostly seeing is that you [TS]

00:21:03   know pcs of them have been a little bit [TS]

00:21:04   contracting for a while but mac sales [TS]

00:21:07   have been pretty solid the rise of the [TS]

00:21:10   ipad / it's been seven years now and [TS]

00:21:13   it's been popular the whole time so it's [TS]

00:21:15   selling a lot the ipad selling a lot but [TS]

00:21:17   during that entire arise sales of Max [TS]

00:21:19   haven't gone down so if the ipad were [TS]

00:21:22   really like the future of computing in [TS]

00:21:24   quotes and found doing finger quotes [TS]

00:21:26   here sorry in hit in the way that that [TS]

00:21:28   means replacing pcs and macs for a lot [TS]

00:21:31   of people i think the numbers are [TS]

00:21:33   showing otherwise that I'm and I and I [TS]

00:21:34   made the case last week that for a lot [TS]

00:21:37   of people if you're going to choose [TS]

00:21:39   between only being able to afford only [TS]

00:21:41   wanting to own either and ipad or a [TS]

00:21:44   computer [TS]

00:21:45   they're still picking the computer i [TS]

00:21:47   think the sale show that and there's [TS]

00:21:49   lots of reasons as we get into last week [TS]

00:21:50   about why that might be you know things [TS]

00:21:52   about things like the limitations of [TS]

00:21:54   doing things in the ipad and and how [TS]

00:21:57   many limitations you have there versus [TS]

00:21:58   the what limitations intend to be on PCs [TS]

00:22:01   and and you know different usability and [TS]

00:22:03   everything we know we are getting better [TS]

00:22:04   so I'm not going to repeat the whole [TS]

00:22:05   thing all this is not to say that you [TS]

00:22:07   can [TS]

00:22:08   to get worked on an iPad or the ipad [TS]

00:22:10   you're only for consumption [TS]

00:22:11   I never said that there is this is also [TS]

00:22:13   all not to say that nobody is replacing [TS]

00:22:17   their their pc or mac with an ipad i [TS]

00:22:20   didn't say that either but i think very [TS]

00:22:22   clearly my argument my argument here [TS]

00:22:25   that I'm clear right now again [TS]

00:22:26   my argument is that on a large scale it [TS]

00:22:31   doesn't appear that tablets are [TS]

00:22:33   replacing pcs and the windows world is a [TS]

00:22:37   little bit Messier because the cans [TS]

00:22:38   combo things but on the apple site i [TS]

00:22:40   think it's very very clear that the ipad [TS]

00:22:42   is not replacing the mac it seems that [TS]

00:22:45   most people who buy the ipad are buying [TS]

00:22:48   it as the third device however they [TS]

00:22:50   ordered in their minds they still have a [TS]

00:22:53   phone and a computer and the ipad is [TS]

00:22:56   added to that mix again not everybody [TS]

00:22:58   not all I've had but this is added to [TS]

00:23:01   the mix for so many people and so while [TS]

00:23:04   everyone can name someone who who got an [TS]

00:23:07   ipad and doesn't use the computer [TS]

00:23:09   anymore [TS]

00:23:10   a lot of people also use computers and [TS]

00:23:12   don't buy iPads so I think the sales [TS]

00:23:15   reflect the reality here the ipad like [TS]

00:23:17   so many things in technology has not [TS]

00:23:20   destroyed what came before it is added [TS]

00:23:22   to it and so in a world where it is one [TS]

00:23:25   of many devices that people used to [TS]

00:23:27   computing on as opposed to the device [TS]

00:23:31   that is replacing the computer I worry [TS]

00:23:33   about the direction that Apple is taking [TS]

00:23:36   between the the mac and the iPad because [TS]

00:23:38   it sure looks like apples point of view [TS]

00:23:41   and able to look into this crazy flasher [TS]

00:23:42   rumor in a little bit but it sure looks [TS]

00:23:45   like for the most part we see from apple [TS]

00:23:46   is that the mac is kind of like i said [TS]

00:23:48   last week it's kind of like in [TS]

00:23:49   maintenance mode it seems like they're [TS]

00:23:50   not really putting a lot of like a huge [TS]

00:23:52   effort into like moving the mac paradigm [TS]

00:23:55   forward it seems like they they consider [TS]

00:23:56   the mac basically done and they're doing [TS]

00:23:59   fairly minor things to it touch bar [TS]

00:24:01   hardware engineering side yes okay but [TS]

00:24:03   the software model seems like it's been [TS]

00:24:04   fairly minor and not seeing a lot of [TS]

00:24:07   meaningful changes are or engineering [TS]

00:24:09   effort put into it could be wrong but [TS]

00:24:11   this is what we're seeing me outside [TS]

00:24:13   whereas the ipad if that if that were to [TS]

00:24:16   be the future of computing than that [TS]

00:24:17   which that needs more investment but [TS]

00:24:19   we're seeing instead is that that's not [TS]

00:24:21   it [TS]

00:24:21   your computer and apples kind of [TS]

00:24:23   neglecting both of these plans but [TS]

00:24:25   that's a story for another day I guess [TS]

00:24:26   but a text I just wanted to clarify my [TS]

00:24:29   argument this is not that the ipad is [TS]

00:24:31   useless or dead or not possible to get [TS]

00:24:33   worked on simply that it is showing [TS]

00:24:37   itself through sales to be in reality a [TS]

00:24:40   third device for a lot of people and to [TS]

00:24:42   not be replacing the back while you're [TS]

00:24:45   talking about that I was thinking about [TS]

00:24:46   often comment i think was the last show [TS]

00:24:50   that apple doesn't make bestbest anymore [TS]

00:24:51   and thinking about mac sales now that [TS]

00:24:56   they're declining but as as the mac has [TS]

00:25:00   become over many years proportionately [TS]

00:25:03   less of what apple sells mostly because [TS]

00:25:05   the iphone honestly you know because [TS]

00:25:07   they saw brazilian iphones right but [TS]

00:25:08   even though the ipad has pointed out [TS]

00:25:10   that sells as much or more than the mac [TS]

00:25:12   these days at to go back to our favorite [TS]

00:25:16   well the good old car analogy in the car [TS]

00:25:19   world if you sell a small number of cars [TS]

00:25:23   and you are a going concern in the car [TS]

00:25:25   business [TS]

00:25:26   chances are good that the small number [TS]

00:25:28   of cars you sell our extreme in some way [TS]

00:25:31   no one sells a small number of Toyota [TS]

00:25:34   Camrys but you can't run a car business [TS]

00:25:37   by selling 5,000 Toyota Camrys a year [TS]

00:25:40   that's not a thing right but you can [TS]

00:25:42   sell 5,000 Ferraris a year and be ok you [TS]

00:25:46   can sell 5,000 Humvees maybe and be okay [TS]

00:25:49   or that's a bad example this GM but [TS]

00:25:51   anyway if you sell in small volume you [TS]

00:25:54   specialize and very often you charge [TS]

00:25:57   tons of money like way out of proportion [TS]

00:25:59   to the quality of the car you're selling [TS]

00:26:01   you know Jaguar whatever sorry [TS]

00:26:03   let's maybe that's not true these days I [TS]

00:26:05   know they're better anyway if the mac [TS]

00:26:08   again not low volume proportionally [TS]

00:26:10   lower volume if the mac becomes the [TS]

00:26:14   minor player in the world of the iphone [TS]

00:26:17   which is the toyota camry right and even [TS]

00:26:19   maybe even the ipads is selling more [TS]

00:26:21   than it uh you know ongoing basis that [TS]

00:26:25   would be the perfect time for them to [TS]

00:26:26   look at that lines they will who is [TS]

00:26:28   still buying max why would someone want [TS]

00:26:30   him a call [TS]

00:26:30   and I've had all that they have more [TS]

00:26:32   demanding me the more sophisticated [TS]

00:26:34   tasks go back to the old world apple [TS]

00:26:37   which was perfectly willing to have a [TS]

00:26:40   machine that we could be configured with [TS]

00:26:42   an obscene amount of ram with a [TS]

00:26:44   ridiculous number of the most expensive [TS]

00:26:46   cpu's with a very large hard drive in a [TS]

00:26:50   very big hot expensive GPU and [TS]

00:26:52   overcharged for all of it that's the [TS]

00:26:54   whole help away chart make a machine [TS]

00:26:56   that i had can configure to be as much [TS]

00:26:58   as an apple watch edition like should be [TS]

00:27:00   able to configure you used to even with [TS]

00:27:02   the old 2013 mac pro 15 [TS]

00:27:05   twenty-thousand-dollar Mac it's not [TS]

00:27:07   worth that much money it's like it's [TS]

00:27:09   overpriced in the same way that a [TS]

00:27:10   Ferrari is not worth that much more than [TS]

00:27:11   a Corvette that has almost the same [TS]

00:27:12   performance but for people in certain [TS]

00:27:15   markets whether it's because you need [TS]

00:27:16   the absolute biggest best and you're [TS]

00:27:18   willing to pay for it like it's a blip [TS]

00:27:20   on your radar or just because you want a [TS]

00:27:22   Ferrari because you think it's cool as [TS]

00:27:24   your volumes get lower proportion the [TS]

00:27:26   rest of your business that becomes a way [TS]

00:27:28   to extract more money from this product [TS]

00:27:30   line and so it seems that they are [TS]

00:27:32   losing interest in the matter i wish [TS]

00:27:33   they would have enough interest to say [TS]

00:27:34   can we release those people because at [TS]

00:27:36   this point like I'm I'm begging to be [TS]

00:27:38   placed camp can't we [TS]

00:27:39   you know like how have you priced out of [TS]

00:27:42   touch bar macbook pro x and yeah I know [TS]

00:27:44   I know like minutes that's going to but [TS]

00:27:46   like it's still it's still within the [TS]

00:27:48   realm of reason like you can't even get [TS]

00:27:49   with 32 gigs ram right like and and if [TS]

00:27:52   there are people who have those demands [TS]

00:27:53   like there's nowhere to go in the [TS]

00:27:55   macworld for them and take regardless of [TS]

00:27:59   how we're going to draw the line between [TS]

00:28:00   where is the line between people who [TS]

00:28:02   really need a personal computer style [TS]

00:28:04   thing and people who need an ipad and [TS]

00:28:05   people just need a phone like it doesn't [TS]

00:28:07   continuum there but at a certain point [TS]

00:28:09   like we all agree that the mac is it [TS]

00:28:11   that one end of that spectrum right it's [TS]

00:28:14   not no one's arguing like the mac is in [TS]

00:28:15   between the ipad of the phone or [TS]

00:28:16   something it is one end of that spectrum [TS]

00:28:18   you just need to extend that line out [TS]

00:28:20   and make sure that if someone is forced [TS]

00:28:23   into a mac or has to use a mac because [TS]

00:28:26   of their work that they can go all the [TS]

00:28:28   way up and you know because it's a [TS]

00:28:31   low-volume relative the phone market [TS]

00:28:33   charge tons of money gets super high [TS]

00:28:35   margins maybe maybe less into the [TS]

00:28:38   five-hundred-dollar increases on your [TS]

00:28:40   own [TS]

00:28:40   your laptop model which is more of a [TS]

00:28:43   mainstream thing and just all that money [TS]

00:28:44   into i don't know like a like a Mac it's [TS]

00:28:46   for professionals like you can shorten [TS]

00:28:48   the name but whatever i know we're at [TS]

00:28:50   circles here but i was just the sad part [TS]

00:28:52   is they have been doing that to the mac [TS]

00:28:54   pro every mac pro generation is more [TS]

00:28:56   expensive than the last one I know but [TS]

00:28:58   then we're going to give you want to see [TS]

00:29:00   be using it right a nice little is the [TS]

00:29:02   properties i know but like it just seems [TS]

00:29:05   like it's frustrating when at any price [TS]

00:29:08   you you can't throw your money at apple [TS]

00:29:09   and say just give me as much ram as well [TS]

00:29:12   physically fit in the machine because [TS]

00:29:14   i'm doing some weird application that i [TS]

00:29:15   don't care how much it costs like nope [TS]

00:29:17   not not interested in selling you that [TS]

00:29:19   and you should be because it's a good [TS]

00:29:21   way to make money off suckers like us [TS]

00:29:23   and also a judge to bring back a little [TS]

00:29:26   bit just to the ipad discussion i did [TS]

00:29:28   want to also mention a great post that [TS]

00:29:31   our friend David Sparkes made over at [TS]

00:29:33   max Sparky about you know his his [TS]

00:29:36   interpretation he is also a very like [TS]

00:29:38   ipad pro user and his interpretation [TS]

00:29:41   basically of trying to explain away the [TS]

00:29:43   ipad sales dip is in short home some [TS]

00:29:47   reason is accurately in short that [TS]

00:29:49   basically it most people aren't pushing [TS]

00:29:52   the idea ipad harlot that's why so many [TS]

00:29:55   people are are able to eat people who [TS]

00:29:58   decided to to make the ipad a part of [TS]

00:30:00   their life or part of their workflow or [TS]

00:30:01   or both [TS]

00:30:02   they're still perfectly ok using like a [TS]

00:30:05   four-year-old ipad and the main reason [TS]

00:30:07   why it that he's saying which i think is [TS]

00:30:10   is right on is that they're just not [TS]

00:30:13   pushing it hard enough because the [TS]

00:30:15   because what people do on ipads what the [TS]

00:30:19   software does what is possible to do [TS]

00:30:22   well on it is usually pretty light [TS]

00:30:24   workload kind of stuff but it isn't the [TS]

00:30:26   hardware is not getting better the [TS]

00:30:28   harbor is getting way better but which [TS]

00:30:30   is what most people are doing the ipad [TS]

00:30:31   doesn't need better hardware and that [TS]

00:30:33   the the blame for that and do to fix [TS]

00:30:36   that or try to push that forward mostly [TS]

00:30:38   and apple because a lot of that has to [TS]

00:30:40   do with the OS and the way it's [TS]

00:30:41   structured and various limitations a lot [TS]

00:30:44   of it has to do with the app ecosystem [TS]

00:30:45   which is all too much that is on Apple [TS]

00:30:49   to to try to fix or or to enable fix us [TS]

00:30:53   to happen [TS]

00:30:53   we've seen this theme from a lot of a [TS]

00:30:56   lot of ipad users responses over the [TS]

00:30:58   last two weeks to this people love the [TS]

00:31:00   ipad people want to use it for more they [TS]

00:31:04   want to be able to be able to do more of [TS]

00:31:06   their work on if they can't currently do [TS]

00:31:07   all that on that but iOS needs to move [TS]

00:31:12   forward in a way that lets people get [TS]

00:31:14   more work more efficiently I mean there [TS]

00:31:16   are so many really basic things that are [TS]

00:31:19   that we consider basic format the PC era [TS]

00:31:21   of just things like you know managing [TS]

00:31:23   like multiple emails and attachments and [TS]

00:31:25   you know it's like moving photos around [TS]

00:31:27   the document around like things that are [TS]

00:31:29   very hostile to do in iOS that are very [TS]

00:31:33   clunky or some or sometimes even just [TS]

00:31:35   impossible without crazy you know Jax or [TS]

00:31:37   sometimes just outright impossible [TS]

00:31:39   simple stuff like moving like moving [TS]

00:31:42   media around and get dealing with [TS]

00:31:44   people's files like iOS really fights [TS]

00:31:47   people a lot of basic moment of [TS]

00:31:48   multitasking stuff movies and [TS]

00:31:49   implementation now is very limited and [TS]

00:31:52   could really use some enhancement and [TS]

00:31:54   weather that's coming down the road this [TS]

00:31:56   year not we'll see i hope it does but [TS]

00:31:58   the point is there's still tons of room [TS]

00:32:00   to improve iOS and the ipad and I I hope [TS]

00:32:04   Apple tries to do that in some way it [TS]

00:32:07   because tons of people want that and it [TS]

00:32:10   just seems like it seems like regardless [TS]

00:32:13   of which side of the future of computing [TS]

00:32:15   you fall on what do you think it's the [TS]

00:32:17   ipad or the mac it seems like there's [TS]

00:32:21   plenty to complain about Apple [TS]

00:32:22   neglecting your platform either way I I [TS]

00:32:25   hope Apple cares enough about the food [TS]

00:32:26   the actual future computing to invest [TS]

00:32:29   very heavily at least one of these [TS]

00:32:30   platforms because it seems right now [TS]

00:32:31   that the mac is in maintenance mode [TS]

00:32:33   indefinitely and the ipad gets [TS]

00:32:35   occasional updates from from iOS when [TS]

00:32:39   it's convenient for them [TS]

00:32:41   we're sponsor this week by a betterment [TS]

00:32:44   investing made better to learn more [TS]

00:32:46   visit betterment calm / ATP and get up [TS]

00:32:49   to six months of no fees it is never too [TS]

00:32:52   early to start saving for retirement or [TS]

00:32:54   other financial goals betterment helps [TS]

00:32:56   you manage your investments the same [TS]

00:32:58   strategies the financial advisors you to [TS]

00:32:59   clients with millions of dollars but [TS]

00:33:01   brought to everybody at a much lower [TS]

00:33:03   cost the financial services industry has [TS]

00:33:06   embraced technology [TS]

00:33:07   innovation to the creation of automated [TS]

00:33:09   investing this means that you keep more [TS]

00:33:11   of your money with fees are fraction of [TS]

00:33:12   what you would pay for traditional [TS]

00:33:13   financial services and betterment is the [TS]

00:33:15   largest independent automated investing [TS]

00:33:17   service out there managing more than 5.5 [TS]

00:33:20   billion dollars for over a hundred and [TS]

00:33:22   eighty thousand customers you might have [TS]

00:33:24   heard about them in the press they [TS]

00:33:25   recently been talked about in the wall [TS]

00:33:26   street journal Bloomberg and techcrunch [TS]

00:33:28   and with betterment excess cashier [TS]

00:33:30   investment generated automatically [TS]

00:33:31   reinvested so every dollar you invest is [TS]

00:33:33   put to work in your portfolio is [TS]

00:33:35   automatically rebalance as needed [TS]

00:33:37   investing involves risk to learn more [TS]

00:33:40   visit betterment calm / ATP and you can [TS]

00:33:43   get up to six months of no fees that's [TS]

00:33:45   better mint.com / ATP betterment [TS]

00:33:48   investing made better on the idea that [TS]

00:33:54   the ipads like people keep using them [TS]

00:33:56   because it still does what they want to [TS]

00:33:57   do even though they could buy a much [TS]

00:33:59   better one I think is another situation [TS]

00:34:02   where Apple probably has data about this [TS]

00:34:04   but trying to think about it [TS]

00:34:07   actually there's two things that make [TS]

00:34:09   you the 22 things that come to mind [TS]

00:34:10   immediately that make you buy a new [TS]

00:34:12   whatever one is the usual tractor of [TS]

00:34:15   software basically if you have a vibrant [TS]

00:34:17   software ecosystem eventually your old [TS]

00:34:20   phone doesn't run the cool new app that [TS]

00:34:21   all your friends are talking about [TS]

00:34:23   so the more the more vibrant ecosystem [TS]

00:34:24   is the more apps take advantage of new [TS]

00:34:28   hardware or being dragged along by the [TS]

00:34:29   platform by like not supporting 32-bit [TS]

00:34:32   apps anymore whatever you know the more [TS]

00:34:35   that is a thing it will make you say oh [TS]

00:34:36   I don't like my phone anymore because [TS]

00:34:39   all my friends are using a pecs and I [TS]

00:34:42   can't use that because it says doesn't [TS]

00:34:44   run on my phone or something right [TS]

00:34:45   so software ecosystem which again is [TS]

00:34:48   lacking on the ipad like there's more of [TS]

00:34:50   that on the phone in there isn't on the [TS]

00:34:52   ipad in terms of social pressure and [TS]

00:34:55   software you know action in the software [TS]

00:34:58   market to put it along and the second [TS]

00:34:59   one and this is where Apple have the [TS]

00:35:01   data is how many people replace the [TS]

00:35:03   phones because they break them [TS]

00:35:05   I see a lot of broken phones and I see [TS]

00:35:09   fewer broken ipad i do see cracked iPads [TS]

00:35:11   you see them in airports and stuff but I [TS]

00:35:13   also see kids in airports with iPads [TS]

00:35:15   dropping them like they're a juice box [TS]

00:35:18   and his boundless in the giant robbery [TS]

00:35:20   cases there [TS]

00:35:21   alright so i'm going to say probably [TS]

00:35:23   percentage-wise phones and their lives [TS]

00:35:27   because they break more often than iPads [TS]

00:35:30   just based on my personal experience and [TS]

00:35:31   anatoly but again Applewood know because [TS]

00:35:33   they probably in all the servers say why [TS]

00:35:35   are you buying a new phone [TS]

00:35:37   it seems to me that those two tractors [TS]

00:35:40   are making the phone replacement cycle [TS]

00:35:43   notice that didn't list is one of the [TS]

00:35:45   things that that's making people replace [TS]

00:35:46   the phone is that their phone feels slow [TS]

00:35:48   in general I think I phones don't are [TS]

00:35:51   like Windows computers were used them [TS]

00:35:53   for two years and they're soaked wrapped [TS]

00:35:54   up that you just need to get a new one [TS]

00:35:56   again this is based on my experience and [TS]

00:35:57   talking to other people that doesn't [TS]

00:35:59   happen with phones as much not say it [TS]

00:36:00   doesn't happen at all sometimes your [TS]

00:36:02   phone does get slow and you know i [TS]

00:36:03   upgraded the OS and my phone feel slow [TS]

00:36:05   and that is another that is another [TS]

00:36:06   factor in it but I feel like it is far [TS]

00:36:08   beyond behind software ecosystem [TS]

00:36:11   pressuring you into upgrading your phone [TS]

00:36:14   and just plain dropping it and you have [TS]

00:36:16   none of those things are true for the [TS]

00:36:17   ipad then it is protected and it kind of [TS]

00:36:19   makes me fear for the day when Apple [TS]

00:36:21   makes an iphone you can drop all day [TS]

00:36:23   long and never breaks will the phone [TS]

00:36:25   suddenly become like the ipad if it [TS]

00:36:27   again if this theory is correct that you [TS]

00:36:29   know the people aren't buying new iPad [TS]

00:36:31   because the one that has working just [TS]

00:36:32   fine i think people's phones will be [TS]

00:36:34   working just fine if there wasn't [TS]

00:36:36   something that they want to play they [TS]

00:36:37   didn't keep dropping know maybe I'm [TS]

00:36:39   overestimating the dropping and maybe I [TS]

00:36:40   noticed cracks too much because i'm [TS]

00:36:42   always amazed at the vast percentage of [TS]

00:36:45   people I see like on the train or [TS]

00:36:46   whatever just swiping thumbs along [TS]

00:36:49   totally shattered phones you know I'm [TS]

00:36:50   iOS or not because people drop them and [TS]

00:36:53   they're made of glass and it's a problem [TS]

00:36:54   so I don't know you don't really need to [TS]

00:36:57   get a product marketing for apple on the [TS]

00:37:00   show now that we're mad with power and [TS]

00:37:02   say what are your percentage of white [TS]

00:37:04   people replace their phones it because [TS]

00:37:06   they have an android phone it's getting [TS]

00:37:07   old and slow because they drop their old [TS]

00:37:09   one or is it because they want to play a [TS]

00:37:10   new game I first of all that that's okay [TS]

00:37:15   that'll be question number one for when [TS]

00:37:16   we get filled question number 2 question [TS]

00:37:18   1 will be about the mac pro out okay i [TS]

00:37:20   have many other questions earlier the [TS]

00:37:22   killer sorry folks that's fair but i do [TS]

00:37:26   think you are under estimating how many [TS]

00:37:28   people replace their phone because it's [TS]

00:37:29   old and slow because you think it's just [TS]

00:37:32   always upgrades like yes I I [TS]

00:37:34   brought that up and i have heard that [TS]

00:37:36   from a lot of people and it is a real [TS]

00:37:37   thing but I was gonna say no one's [TS]

00:37:39   forcing you to upgrade your your phone [TS]

00:37:41   button apples pretty pushing these days [TS]

00:37:42   aren't they yeah they Apple really [TS]

00:37:44   really pushes the upgrade pretty hard [TS]

00:37:46   and a lot sometimes like a nap a [TS]

00:37:48   critical app that for people will [TS]

00:37:50   require it to that kind of forces i'm [TS]

00:37:52   terry they push you on the ipad 2 like I [TS]

00:37:53   had iPads that I regret upgrading the OS [TS]

00:37:56   four because they just sold in your you [TS]

00:37:58   upgrade to the very last thing like I [TS]

00:37:59   should have stayed one version back so [TS]

00:38:01   why wouldn't that make people replace [TS]

00:38:02   their iPads in the same way [TS]

00:38:03   well that that's a good question were [TS]

00:38:05   thinking about i think one of the [TS]

00:38:07   reasons for that may be one of the [TS]

00:38:08   biggest reasons for that is the the [TS]

00:38:11   types of apps that you use on the ipad [TS]

00:38:14   vs types you absolutely that use enough [TS]

00:38:16   on the phone and like like is there an [TS]

00:38:18   app that's pushing you to upgrade or not [TS]

00:38:19   on the ipad I i think i think the data [TS]

00:38:24   shows that despite this despite the [TS]

00:38:27   community of people who get a lot of [TS]

00:38:30   work on the ipad a lot of ipad users are [TS]

00:38:33   using it mainly for video watching web [TS]

00:38:36   browsing and email me at facebook like [TS]

00:38:38   bait the basics basics like email web [TS]

00:38:41   video kind of workflow and for that [TS]

00:38:43   probably nothing really going to push [TS]

00:38:46   you to really upgrade your OS like you [TS]

00:38:48   can still use apples mail app and [TS]

00:38:49   whatever else you have you can still use [TS]

00:38:51   the web browser you can probably like I [TS]

00:38:53   would imagine like Facebook and netflix [TS]

00:38:54   and stuff probably keep their inversion [TS]

00:38:56   pretty low pulled up the upgrade the OS [TS]

00:38:58   but you don't doesn't matter if you're [TS]

00:39:00   crazy or is it just using to play video [TS]

00:39:01   it really doesn't matter exactly how [TS]

00:39:03   close to the animation is on springboard [TS]

00:39:04   when you launched it for example you [TS]

00:39:06   care about is once the video starts [TS]

00:39:07   playing it's fine [TS]

00:39:08   that's fair but anyway regardless I i [TS]

00:39:11   think the way most iPads are used it [TS]

00:39:15   probably has a slower upgrade cycle from [TS]

00:39:18   this office I'd simply because they're [TS]

00:39:20   not often using a lot of apps that [TS]

00:39:22   require the newest version of the OS [TS]

00:39:24   where's the phone [TS]

00:39:25   you have a lot more like you know new [TS]

00:39:27   games that come out new cutting-edge [TS]

00:39:29   have to come out usually come on the [TS]

00:39:30   phone first or only and you have more [TS]

00:39:32   early adopters that it seemed like more [TS]

00:39:34   driving that but also just like there's [TS]

00:39:36   like this consistent narrative with the [TS]

00:39:38   ipad that explains a lot of this that is [TS]

00:39:41   probably correct and there is some data [TS]

00:39:42   to back it up that basically [TS]

00:39:45   while you can get work done on it a lot [TS]

00:39:48   of people do use it for mostly [TS]

00:39:50   consumption [TS]

00:39:51   that's not a judgment that's just what [TS]

00:39:52   people do that's also true computers [TS]

00:39:55   that's also true phones however that is [TS]

00:39:56   true hi pads and that people's needs on [TS]

00:39:59   ipads are so are fairly simple most of [TS]

00:40:03   the time whoever's fault that it doesn't [TS]

00:40:05   really matter the point is people do [TS]

00:40:07   pretty simple things that I've had most [TS]

00:40:08   of the time you know it's only one data [TS]

00:40:11   point but I feel like it's relevant the [TS]

00:40:15   aforementioned ipad3 that we had after [TS]

00:40:20   we stopped using it because we found it [TS]

00:40:23   to be too old [TS]

00:40:24   it was collecting dust for months and [TS]

00:40:27   then just a couple months back i had my [TS]

00:40:30   ID I you know reset it all and i had my [TS]

00:40:34   dad bring it to my grandparents they [TS]

00:40:37   live in Pennsylvania i'm in Virginia and [TS]

00:40:39   although they come down from time to [TS]

00:40:41   time we haven't been up there in a long [TS]

00:40:43   time and you know they're they're not [TS]

00:40:46   that young at this point because i'm [TS]

00:40:49   turning 35 pretty soon and these are my [TS]

00:40:51   grandparents but I'm but we gave them [TS]

00:40:53   this ipad 3 mostly so they could face [TS]

00:40:56   time with us and Declan and you know I [TS]

00:40:58   guess my parents from time to time as [TS]

00:40:59   well from what I understand they were [TS]

00:41:04   beyond overjoyed to have received it not [TS]

00:41:08   only because of facetime but because [TS]

00:41:12   it's a much easier device for them to [TS]

00:41:14   use their pc and I think it's a [TS]

00:41:15   reasonably modern PC but they were [TS]

00:41:18   overjoyed to receive an ipad 3 it late [TS]

00:41:24   in 2016 was the ipad 3 new like 2012 or [TS]

00:41:27   something like that probably before that [TS]

00:41:29   actually so 12 it wasn't 20 ok yes they [TS]

00:41:35   were beyond excited to receive this old [TS]

00:41:37   device which for them is more than [TS]

00:41:39   enough now obviously they have nothing [TS]

00:41:41   to compare to [TS]

00:41:42   obviously in a perfect world i'm sure [TS]

00:41:45   they would prefer brand new one but four [TS]

00:41:48   for someone who hadn't had one before it [TS]

00:41:52   was way more than enough and not every [TS]

00:41:56   ipad users going to be like that and i'm [TS]

00:41:58   sure that there's [TS]

00:41:59   there's tons of ipad users that upgrade [TS]

00:42:01   regularly that are not using it for work [TS]

00:42:03   they just really love the ipad but to [TS]

00:42:06   speak of the longevity the ipad this is [TS]

00:42:07   a device that's you know nearly five [TS]

00:42:10   years old now that brought genuine joy [TS]

00:42:14   to their household when they received it [TS]

00:42:16   because it's a thing like that this is [TS]

00:42:19   why pads are so useful and so many of [TS]

00:42:21   them are still in use because most [TS]

00:42:23   people's needs are pretty low-end most [TS]

00:42:25   people just want a thing that they can [TS]

00:42:27   browse the web and send emails and see [TS]

00:42:29   facebook on like that's pretty much what [TS]

00:42:31   most people do with any of their [TS]

00:42:32   computing devices phone laptop or tablet [TS]

00:42:34   and so this device is delightful for [TS]

00:42:38   that again but that but I i think that [TS]

00:42:41   that doesn't preclude you know people [TS]

00:42:43   doing really work on it and also my [TS]

00:42:46   theory that that I'm putting forth with [TS]

00:42:48   this the sales graphs that like this is [TS]

00:42:50   mostly just added to the world [TS]

00:42:52   technology i mean there aren't any real [TS]

00:42:54   answers here like the the data that we [TS]

00:42:57   have is shallow and we have to [TS]

00:43:01   extrapolate a lot from it and and so [TS]

00:43:04   because of that it's there's so much [TS]

00:43:05   judgment involved and there's no clear [TS]

00:43:07   right or wrong and I think that's why [TS]

00:43:09   we're going to talk about it in its [TS]

00:43:11   across 17 different podcasts for a [TS]

00:43:15   little while the item is so let's talk [TS]

00:43:18   about something that's indisputably [TS]

00:43:20   awesome we are brought to you this week [TS]

00:43:23   by Squarespace start building your [TS]

00:43:25   website today at squarespace.com enter [TS]

00:43:27   offer code ATP at checkout to get ten [TS]

00:43:29   percent off [TS]

00:43:31   Squarespace is platform is incredibly [TS]

00:43:33   powerful but it's so easy to use you can [TS]

00:43:36   make a beautiful website with no time at [TS]

00:43:40   all [TS]

00:43:40   you can take less than an hour and see [TS]

00:43:43   what everything it can do you don't even [TS]

00:43:44   have to pay because you can start a free [TS]

00:43:46   trial and when you do want to pay use [TS]

00:43:48   code ATP of course but you don't even [TS]

00:43:49   have to pay you can see what it is [TS]

00:43:51   without ever giving them a credit card [TS]

00:43:52   you can get a free trial site you can [TS]

00:43:54   build out what you want to see and you [TS]

00:43:56   can see for yourself how incredibly good [TS]

00:43:58   it is gonna tell you what [TS]

00:43:59   once you've made a site with squarespace [TS]

00:44:00   you will wonder why anybody does it any [TS]

00:44:02   other way because most other ways to [TS]

00:44:05   make websites are way more complicated [TS]

00:44:07   way more time-consuming much harder to [TS]

00:44:10   support overtime [TS]

00:44:11   and people ask us to make this all the [TS]

00:44:13   time and people who listen to the show [TS]

00:44:15   probably probably a lot of you have [TS]

00:44:17   people in your life who asked you to [TS]

00:44:18   make websites for them you don't want to [TS]

00:44:20   support that you don't want to do that [TS]

00:44:21   you don't have to like patch that or [TS]

00:44:23   upgrade that ordeal with them whenever [TS]

00:44:24   there's there you know server goes down [TS]

00:44:26   whatever else you want someone else to [TS]

00:44:28   take care of that and Squarespace can do [TS]

00:44:29   that whether it's for your site or for a [TS]

00:44:31   site someone else wants you to help to [TS]

00:44:33   help them setup setup on Squarespace [TS]

00:44:35   because their platform takes care of [TS]

00:44:37   everything hosting you never even have [TS]

00:44:40   to think about software updates and [TS]

00:44:41   patches obviously support which is a [TS]

00:44:43   huge thing if you're so excited for [TS]

00:44:45   somebody else and you and they need help [TS]

00:44:47   with something they ask where space not [TS]

00:44:49   you you want to get yourself out of that [TS]

00:44:50   business let Squarespace take care of it [TS]

00:44:52   and no matter what you're making whether [TS]

00:44:54   it's for you or somebody else you'll be [TS]

00:44:56   surprised how fast it is to make [TS]

00:44:58   everything with squarespace you just put [TS]

00:45:00   things up there and just done eat you [TS]

00:45:02   can mess with the design if you want to [TS]

00:45:03   you don't even have to the stock stuff [TS]

00:45:04   is beautiful if you want if you want to [TS]

00:45:06   belittle customizations you can like two [TS]

00:45:08   seconds [TS]

00:45:09   try it just try it next to me to make [TS]

00:45:11   anything make your next move with [TS]

00:45:13   squarespace see for yourself when you're [TS]

00:45:16   ready to check out use offer code ATP to [TS]

00:45:18   get ten percent off your purchase a [TS]

00:45:20   Squarespace make your next move at [TS]

00:45:22   Squarespace so there was this crazy [TS]

00:45:29   dammit sorry up there was this crazy [TS]

00:45:32   rumor are sort of rumor that was posted [TS]

00:45:35   on slashdot as a comment and this was a [TS]

00:45:41   in / top parlance an anonymous coward [TS]

00:45:44   which is to say somebody that didn't [TS]

00:45:46   want to leave their name but they went [TS]

00:45:47   on and on about how there are several [TS]

00:45:50   armed powered laptops that are drifting [TS]

00:45:52   around internally at apple and this [TS]

00:45:55   individual claims to have seen several [TS]

00:45:56   with my with their own eyes and they had [TS]

00:46:01   a lot to say about it i don't know the [TS]

00:46:03   best way to summarize it partially [TS]

00:46:04   because i read this days ago and I [TS]

00:46:06   haven't looked back since [TS]

00:46:07   which was in part because it seemed kind [TS]

00:46:10   of bananas to me right but I'm but it [TS]

00:46:14   seemed like the the short short version [TS]

00:46:16   was yeah there's some apps that that run [TS]

00:46:20   on arm and the OS is really iOS [TS]

00:46:23   fish even though it is an iOS like a lot [TS]

00:46:26   of things that that we like to control [TS]

00:46:29   as a as you even not even necessarily [TS]

00:46:33   power usage users on Mac OS not a lot of [TS]

00:46:36   that is available on these supposed [TS]

00:46:38   phantom our max I didn't think this is [TS]

00:46:42   something about this didn't feel right [TS]

00:46:44   to me like i'm not sure i can point to a [TS]

00:46:46   specific passage and say yes this is why [TS]

00:46:47   it's bananas but a lot of it just didn't [TS]

00:46:50   feel right to me and from what I [TS]

00:46:51   gathered from people that I've spoken to [TS]

00:46:53   it didn't feel right to a lot of them [TS]

00:46:55   but we wanted to acknowledge its [TS]

00:46:57   existence and we'll put a link to the [TS]

00:46:58   show notes and I'm sure that the two of [TS]

00:46:59   you have some thoughts on it as well I [TS]

00:47:01   don't do more than just technology [TS]

00:47:03   yeah I don't want to entertain it as a [TS]

00:47:05   as a possibility because that you know [TS]

00:47:08   this is not a credible source but let's [TS]

00:47:09   just pretend like hypothetically let's [TS]

00:47:11   talk about this thing if it existed [TS]

00:47:13   right because I again that they don't [TS]

00:47:15   think the sourcing is enough to say that [TS]

00:47:16   this does exist but i would say in fact [TS]

00:47:19   the the incredible shadiness of this [TS]

00:47:21   post and so many of the like weird [TS]

00:47:23   things that don't really sound very [TS]

00:47:24   Apple II or don't reflect how to [TS]

00:47:26   actually work [TS]

00:47:27   I i would say this is very unlikely to [TS]

00:47:29   be true but I but I'd the reason I want [TS]

00:47:32   to talk about this too i was very happy [TS]

00:47:33   to see the note is that this is an [TS]

00:47:35   interesting idea for where the mac could [TS]

00:47:38   plausibly go because while the details [TS]

00:47:40   of this are very suspicious admit that [TS]

00:47:42   make you discount the validity of this [TS]

00:47:44   of this report i do think the overall [TS]

00:47:47   idea of such a product is plausible and [TS]

00:47:50   the idea that apple would take in this [TS]

00:47:52   direction is very plausible that was [TS]

00:47:54   plausible this is like this is the as [TS]

00:47:57   soon as iOS appeared this is basically [TS]

00:48:00   the exact not an exemplar but like like [TS]

00:48:03   this is the prototype of this rumor the [TS]

00:48:05   very second the first person said iOS [TS]

00:48:08   Mac merge like the very second someone [TS]

00:48:10   said that many many years ago this is [TS]

00:48:11   exactly what they were talking about is [TS]

00:48:13   a mac running arm CPUs can only get apps [TS]

00:48:16   from the app store everything locked [TS]

00:48:18   down all binary sign can restore from [TS]

00:48:21   the internet like a phone like it there [TS]

00:48:23   is nothing in this that is even outside [TS]

00:48:25   the realm of the things that mean the [TS]

00:48:26   only reason is you know it's interesting [TS]

00:48:29   again it's because being presented as [TS]

00:48:30   truth is kind of the same way when you [TS]

00:48:31   tell a joke you pretend it's a real [TS]

00:48:32   story that happened to make the joke [TS]

00:48:34   funnier [TS]

00:48:34   that's exactly how this is working here [TS]

00:48:36   but because we haven't had like the of [TS]

00:48:39   the reasons we're talking about again is [TS]

00:48:41   because we haven't revisited this idea [TS]

00:48:43   of the iOS and mac merge totally locked [TS]

00:48:46   down Mac thing again and in light of the [TS]

00:48:49   actual appearance of arm CPUs inside max [TS]

00:48:51   with the touch bar mac pros and in light [TS]

00:48:53   of all the Intel stuff and so on and so [TS]

00:48:54   forth in our own revisiting of what is [TS]

00:48:57   it going to be time to flip them back [TS]

00:48:58   over to harm i think it's worth [TS]

00:49:00   revisiting this old the rumor of the [TS]

00:49:02   merged you know that emerged iOS Mac not [TS]

00:49:06   so much the merging of the u.s. [TS]

00:49:08   interface wise but of literally [TS]

00:49:10   buttoning down the mac in all the same [TS]

00:49:12   way that iOS button down as an example [TS]

00:49:15   of what we talked about last show like [TS]

00:49:16   you know either [TS]

00:49:17   expand the capabilities of iOS or making [TS]

00:49:21   the mac easier this would be an example [TS]

00:49:22   of taking all the sharp edges in the mac [TS]

00:49:24   and following them down as much as [TS]

00:49:26   possible to make something that is [TS]

00:49:28   hopefully almost as easy to use an iPad [TS]

00:49:31   but so much more capable [TS]

00:49:32   yeah and so I i think it's worth going [TS]

00:49:34   over some of the details he's our chief [TS]

00:49:36   summarizer in chief failed to that's [TS]

00:49:38   what it's ok if you've had a long day [TS]

00:49:41   look at the after show but true [TS]

00:49:44   yes sorry it is so basically the the [TS]

00:49:47   idea before this comment basically is [TS]

00:49:50   that it is a it is like you know the [TS]

00:49:53   next generation of laptop presumably or [TS]

00:49:56   possibly have all max it is an ARM [TS]

00:49:58   processor all custom app alarm harbor [TS]

00:50:00   just like the iPads and phones but it [TS]

00:50:02   only boots the signed os os images that [TS]

00:50:06   that come from that come over the [TS]

00:50:07   internet i assume that every time that [TS]

00:50:09   not even that but like it only boots [TS]

00:50:11   it's similar to iphones and ipads like [TS]

00:50:12   there is no like physical install media [TS]

00:50:15   there's no like downgrading it just [TS]

00:50:17   here's the software update for you hear [TS]

00:50:19   that you get you can't downgrade you [TS]

00:50:21   can't choose what version you run just [TS]

00:50:22   here's what you get period it said like [TS]

00:50:25   you know a lot of the OS 10 legacy [TS]

00:50:27   utilities and stuff are missing [TS]

00:50:29   there's no more x11 there's no audio [TS]

00:50:31   MIDI setup we know a lot of that stuff [TS]

00:50:33   no disk utility no terminal which is [TS]

00:50:35   interesting system preferences and a lot [TS]

00:50:37   of functionality has had to move into a [TS]

00:50:38   new app called settings to match iOS the [TS]

00:50:42   app store is mandatory including even [TS]

00:50:45   things that require hardware drivers [TS]

00:50:46   Senate sounds kind of similar to when [TS]

00:50:49   you plug [TS]

00:50:50   and like it when you connect the [TS]

00:50:51   bluetooth or Lightning device to a phone [TS]

00:50:52   and it can associate itself with an app [TS]

00:50:54   on the App Store app that lets it work [TS]

00:50:56   similar to that but for drivers on the [TS]

00:50:58   mac so you get a new like you know [TS]

00:51:00   scanner something you plug it in and it [TS]

00:51:02   downloads the door it launches you to [TS]

00:51:04   the Mac App Store to download the driver [TS]

00:51:06   for that [TS]

00:51:07   similarly all drivers would be like you [TS]

00:51:09   know kind of like iOS sandbox ified [TS]

00:51:11   where something could install one of [TS]

00:51:13   these drivers like that at the deep [TS]

00:51:14   level system but then you could just go [TS]

00:51:15   into a system pref pain and like delete [TS]

00:51:18   it and it's gone it doesn't like Lee [TS]

00:51:20   files behind you know it's a very iose [TS]

00:51:22   in that way of like a night with iOS you [TS]

00:51:24   can delete an app and you know [TS]

00:51:25   everything about that is gone like it is [TS]

00:51:27   there's no there's no like remnants of a [TS]

00:51:29   left on your phone or anything and of [TS]

00:51:30   course the maximum work that way now you [TS]

00:51:32   know max get gummed up over time those [TS]

00:51:34   crap and yet you have like all this junk [TS]

00:51:36   in your library folder and everything [TS]

00:51:37   else and so and then a couple of things [TS]

00:51:41   but yeah basically that the land and the [TS]

00:51:43   the file system is a kind of like it he [TS]

00:51:48   pronounced chroot in linux world is at [TS]

00:51:51   route after but is it really that [TS]

00:51:53   basically the file system is like [TS]

00:51:54   Troodon so basically like you like what [TS]

00:51:57   appears to be at route is your home [TS]

00:52:00   directory and you don't even see the [TS]

00:52:02   system files they're just don't even [TS]

00:52:04   they're like that they're there they [TS]

00:52:06   exist in the file system but you don't [TS]

00:52:07   see them from your point of view from [TS]

00:52:09   your user space you see at root your [TS]

00:52:12   files and nobody elses and they said [TS]

00:52:14   there's like no concept of seemingly of [TS]

00:52:15   multi stuff but I don't want to get too [TS]

00:52:18   much into the specifics of this post [TS]

00:52:20   because again i think the credibility of [TS]

00:52:21   it is is pretty low but as a future [TS]

00:52:25   direction of mac OS and and of the mac [TS]

00:52:28   hardware platform i do this we're [TS]

00:52:31   talking about not only because it's so [TS]

00:52:32   plausible based on what Apple's seems to [TS]

00:52:34   want to do but also i think i will have [TS]

00:52:37   the seemingly in this community very [TS]

00:52:40   unpopular opinion that I think this [TS]

00:52:44   could be really good with a few minor [TS]

00:52:47   exceptions i think this could be really [TS]

00:52:49   good [TS]

00:52:50   the only things about this that give me [TS]

00:52:53   a lot of paws are that it said that [TS]

00:52:57   everything to come to the mac app store [TS]

00:52:58   that's number one and i think you know [TS]

00:53:00   the mac has this wonderful gatekeeper [TS]

00:53:02   system and has the [TS]

00:53:03   this kind of like code-signing without [TS]

00:53:06   app review system called developer ID if [TS]

00:53:09   that if the developer ID and gatekeeper [TS]

00:53:11   come forward into whatever this is a [TS]

00:53:13   look again assume this is real even [TS]

00:53:15   though it probably isn't thought [TS]

00:53:17   experiment time okay if this were if [TS]

00:53:20   this were to have some kind of like [TS]

00:53:21   developer mode where you could build [TS]

00:53:23   open source stuff and you know it would [TS]

00:53:26   however its container if it's in your [TS]

00:53:27   little true jail fine but if you can [TS]

00:53:29   build open source stuff if you can [TS]

00:53:31   develop code if you can like compile [TS]

00:53:33   code with with your c compiler whatever [TS]

00:53:35   else and just running on this thing [TS]

00:53:37   without the os's coat is interfering [TS]

00:53:39   badly with that if that's possible to do [TS]

00:53:42   here and you know and and if if you can [TS]

00:53:44   do if you can distribute software [TS]

00:53:46   developer ID which would bypass the at [TS]

00:53:48   the mac app store then I think this is [TS]

00:53:52   not only plausible and could be good but [TS]

00:53:56   it might be great because a lot of this [TS]

00:53:58   solves real problems with the mac and [TS]

00:54:01   with peaceful oasis one of the biggest [TS]

00:54:03   problems is like how its spread that all [TS]

00:54:06   over the place all over the system you [TS]

00:54:07   know they they they are like it isn't as [TS]

00:54:09   it without with iOS you know is you [TS]

00:54:11   delete the app it's gone on the macula [TS]

00:54:13   the app and it's their garbage [TS]

00:54:14   everywhere and you have to use like Matt [TS]

00:54:16   cleanup utility is to clean up the [TS]

00:54:18   garbage out sometimes you have to go [TS]

00:54:19   find these files of the spread of your [TS]

00:54:21   system and you can't be sure what [TS]

00:54:22   happens do when you install it all the [TS]

00:54:24   stuff like the the pc and mac style of [TS]

00:54:29   of app security is outdated we know [TS]

00:54:32   we've talked with before how they like [TS]

00:54:34   to hold the unix idea of like anything [TS]

00:54:36   you've run so that has access to your [TS]

00:54:37   entire user account and everything you [TS]

00:54:40   have a ready-made on user account all [TS]

00:54:41   your files and it can delete files it [TS]

00:54:43   will I can you can read everything of [TS]

00:54:44   yours like that is an outdated model [TS]

00:54:46   that that that is not great for the [TS]

00:54:48   future computing and one of the things [TS]

00:54:49   that makes iOS so appealing to a lot of [TS]

00:54:52   people fraud of reasons is the [TS]

00:54:54   additional simplicity and security that [TS]

00:54:56   the sandboxing model that it has [TS]

00:54:58   enforces I think there it is possible to [TS]

00:55:01   do this well a lot of mac diehards are [TS]

00:55:05   really against this idea when I saw this [TS]

00:55:08   commented and assuming it might be real [TS]

00:55:09   and I can see why that why you would be [TS]

00:55:13   so against this but I think [TS]

00:55:15   if again which is like that's very [TS]

00:55:17   slight tweak of like a developer mode [TS]

00:55:19   and being able to distribute software [TS]

00:55:21   developer ID that's pretty much all i [TS]

00:55:25   would need for this at you know it like [TS]

00:55:27   it sounds like it would be really good [TS]

00:55:29   in a lot of other ways either the mac is [TS]

00:55:32   in maintenance mode as i keep saying it [TS]

00:55:34   seems that way and nothing ever changes [TS]

00:55:36   and it's fine [TS]

00:55:37   or if it is going to change if Apple [TS]

00:55:40   really is working on like the next the [TS]

00:55:43   next generation of os not just 10 dot [TS]

00:55:47   something else [TS]

00:55:48   the entire next generation like when [TS]

00:55:50   they went from classic to OS 10 if they [TS]

00:55:53   are indeed working on such a thing for [TS]

00:55:54   the mac which I would argue they should [TS]

00:55:57   be because it would be ridiculous to [TS]

00:55:59   complete to continue computing platform [TS]

00:56:01   for but no plans to ever do that then I [TS]

00:56:04   think this is exactly the kind of thing [TS]

00:56:07   they would do and we should be prepared [TS]

00:56:09   for it and we can see a preview of what [TS]

00:56:12   it's like by looking at iOS iOS is even [TS]

00:56:15   more restrictive than this and so if if [TS]

00:56:18   this is plausible and and if this [TS]

00:56:20   happens and if it's done well with with [TS]

00:56:23   with those couple of little holes [TS]

00:56:25   puncture the wall for developers and for [TS]

00:56:26   distribution through developer ideas i [TS]

00:56:28   said i think this could be a great move [TS]

00:56:32   forward [TS]

00:56:33   this could be the simplicity and [TS]

00:56:35   security of iOS but with windowing and [TS]

00:56:39   file management and access to your files [TS]

00:56:42   in it in a traditional paradigm and [TS]

00:56:44   stuff like that and yes it would require [TS]

00:56:46   a lot of apps to be written some things [TS]

00:56:49   that works in the old system wouldn't [TS]

00:56:50   work anymore but a lot of this stuff is [TS]

00:56:52   ancient like I don't need x11 anymore i [TS]

00:56:55   don't like there's a lot of this stuff [TS]

00:56:57   is so ancient mac OS is very old it has [TS]

00:57:00   a community craft over time because [TS]

00:57:02   everything does this new way of doing [TS]

00:57:05   things [TS]

00:57:06   sounds like it could really be the [TS]

00:57:09   actual future of computing that blends [TS]

00:57:12   together the greatness of iOS with ap [TS]

00:57:14   style paradigm to a lot more types of [TS]

00:57:16   work to get done for more people [TS]

00:57:18   this sounds really good to me the actual [TS]

00:57:22   future computer i spent all this time [TS]

00:57:23   explaining myself and you just ignore me [TS]

00:57:26   last week we talked about the ipad was [TS]

00:57:30   like was making progress in terms of [TS]

00:57:31   expanding its capabilities with [TS]

00:57:33   multitasking and the pen and the bigger [TS]

00:57:34   size and stuff but like what kind of [TS]

00:57:36   slowly the mac has been doing that same [TS]

00:57:40   thing but in the other direction but [TS]

00:57:42   even more slowly because if you think [TS]

00:57:45   about the Mac the Mac trying to try to [TS]

00:57:48   simplify itself trying to be friendlier [TS]

00:57:50   this has been a process the process took [TS]

00:57:53   a pretty big leap with classic taurus [TS]

00:57:56   ten actually because many things that [TS]

00:57:59   were way more complicated and classic [TS]

00:58:01   we're massively simplify the doc is the [TS]

00:58:03   best example of that all the ways that [TS]

00:58:04   you could manage the same stuff the doc [TS]

00:58:07   is supposed to do on classic mac OS at [TS]

00:58:10   the time we transitioned doctors just [TS]

00:58:12   like the most dumbed down version of all [TS]

00:58:16   the other options about not even [TS]

00:58:17   including third-party things of which [TS]

00:58:19   there were many this was this one first [TS]

00:58:20   party thing [TS]

00:58:21   no you can't use the private api's to to [TS]

00:58:24   make your own doc type thing will we [TS]

00:58:26   will fight you on that and it is way [TS]

00:58:28   simpler and don't worry about it that's [TS]

00:58:30   all everybody needs right and sandboxing [TS]

00:58:33   another example a long slow painful slog [TS]

00:58:36   trying to get some of the benefits that [TS]

00:58:38   you get in iOS all your crap in one [TS]

00:58:40   place protect applications protected [TS]

00:58:42   from each other blah blah it's been slow [TS]

00:58:45   going [TS]

00:58:45   we haven't been able to get there [TS]

00:58:48   because sandboxing is incompatible lots [TS]

00:58:50   of cool things that the mac apps have [TS]

00:58:52   done and still want to do and it's very [TS]

00:58:56   difficult for Apple to ever get slowly [TS]

00:59:01   incrementally get to the point where mac [TS]

00:59:03   applications our sandbox in the same way [TS]

00:59:05   as iOS applications instead they've been [TS]

00:59:07   saying you can be a mac app and your [TS]

00:59:10   stuff can still be in seven different [TS]

00:59:11   places because it kind of has to be but [TS]

00:59:14   we'll put some constraints on you and [TS]

00:59:16   it's a this weird mismatch between [TS]

00:59:18   having to do that but also having to be [TS]

00:59:21   protected from yourself and isolated [TS]

00:59:23   from other applications even so far as [TS]

00:59:26   like how many machs have struggled with [TS]

00:59:27   the sandbox because the the integration [TS]

00:59:30   point on pc cell operating systems is [TS]

00:59:32   very often the filesystem and that's how [TS]

00:59:35   that's our application share things with [TS]

00:59:37   each other is I right thing here and [TS]

00:59:39   you open that same thing over there and [TS]

00:59:41   we make that the user is allowed to make [TS]

00:59:42   little folders and put stuff in them and [TS]

00:59:44   you're trying to sandbox things to each [TS]

00:59:45   application only see his own files but [TS]

00:59:46   like it's it's been difficult and so [TS]

00:59:49   this this description of the the iOS [TS]

00:59:52   ified mac which again has been in [TS]

00:59:54   people's minds and talked about for many [TS]

00:59:56   many years now the question is always [TS]

00:59:59   how do you get [TS]

00:59:59   how do you get [TS]

01:00:00   from where we are to there is it's a big [TS]

01:00:03   leap it and trying to do it [TS]

01:00:04   incrementally has been very difficult [TS]

01:00:07   it's been taking a long time [TS]

01:00:09   it hasn't been particularly successful a [TS]

01:00:10   lot of things efforts have stalled out [TS]

01:00:12   despite a lot of effort put into it you [TS]

01:00:15   know it gets back to the question from [TS]

01:00:17   the last week's show it easier to make [TS]

01:00:20   the ipad more capable and make the mac [TS]

01:00:21   friendlier and simpler and I one [TS]

01:00:25   question I think it's still easier to [TS]

01:00:26   make iOS more capable because if you try [TS]

01:00:29   to make the mac simpler everything about [TS]

01:00:32   the system and the users and the [TS]

01:00:34   developers fights you with every step [TS]

01:00:36   because there's so much entrenched [TS]

01:00:37   tradition and software and conventions [TS]

01:00:40   and capabilities and attitudes and just [TS]

01:00:42   like and crafts like Marco said just [TS]

01:00:44   plain old craft that it's it's difficult [TS]

01:00:49   together so this this though post here [TS]

01:00:52   is almost kind of like wishful thinking [TS]

01:00:53   like wouldn't be great if we could snap [TS]

01:00:56   my fingers and be there and like Marco [TS]

01:00:58   said one way you can do that to say okay [TS]

01:01:00   well it's not mac OS anymore it's a new [TS]

01:01:02   OS called something else you know like [TS]

01:01:03   people would have said Mac OS 11 back in [TS]

01:01:05   the days before the 10 got dropped right [TS]

01:01:06   but this really it would be a leap of [TS]

01:01:09   that size if it appeared wholesale you [TS]

01:01:12   can still get their piecemeal it's going [TS]

01:01:15   to take a long time you might have to [TS]

01:01:17   wait for some people to die and there [TS]

01:01:19   may be there are many places where you [TS]

01:01:20   can go terribly wrong for example like [TS]

01:01:22   it's obvious to us on this program has [TS]

01:01:25   rabbit mac users that of course you'd [TS]

01:01:28   have to have some load that most people [TS]

01:01:30   wouldn't use but that would give you [TS]

01:01:31   access to the terminal they will let you [TS]

01:01:33   build or because your software [TS]

01:01:34   developers we know any software [TS]

01:01:36   developer who uses a mac no matter what [TS]

01:01:38   kind of development and even if you're [TS]

01:01:40   doing everything in xcode i would [TS]

01:01:41   imagine but it's definitely for doing [TS]

01:01:42   development you know friends have [TS]

01:01:44   server-side software you're used to [TS]

01:01:46   being able to install and run software [TS]

01:01:48   like that is not signed with apples [TS]

01:01:51   developer ID thing at all the units open [TS]

01:01:52   source stuff it's not signed with [TS]

01:01:54   developer ID and if you could literally [TS]

01:01:55   can't run binaries that are not that are [TS]

01:01:58   not signed if you don't have that final [TS]

01:02:00   option gatekeeper to launch applications [TS]

01:02:02   with another right click on the open and [TS]

01:02:04   all that you know just launching it from [TS]

01:02:05   the command line like if that option [TS]

01:02:07   like literally does not exist as it [TS]

01:02:08   doesn't on iOS unless you jailbreak and [TS]

01:02:10   I really don't wanna be jailbreaking my [TS]

01:02:11   mac [TS]

01:02:12   that eliminates just so many users this [TS]

01:02:16   is not even an edge case anymore is like [TS]

01:02:18   a large percentage of people who you [TS]

01:02:20   know whole professions who use max at [TS]

01:02:23   their desks need the ability to do that [TS]

01:02:25   type of stuff and are going to need it [TS]

01:02:27   for the foreseeable future of you if you [TS]

01:02:29   cut them off then you're just [TS]

01:02:31   marginalizing the mac too much i think [TS]

01:02:32   because it would be there will be eaten [TS]

01:02:33   up by us on one side and you abandoned [TS]

01:02:35   everybody else was using those features [TS]

01:02:37   in the mac and so that the danger zone [TS]

01:02:38   as well but the general idea of like let [TS]

01:02:42   me just close my eyes and open them [TS]

01:02:43   again and the mac at the very least [TS]

01:02:46   solves a one or two or three of the [TS]

01:02:49   biggest problems still wouldn't be [TS]

01:02:50   solving the file system problem even [TS]

01:02:51   with the chroot stuff and everything but [TS]

01:02:54   at least you solve app install [TS]

01:02:56   management drivers regularly uses [TS]

01:02:59   wouldn't have to see disk images anymore [TS]

01:03:01   and settings and preferences would be [TS]

01:03:05   more coherent and familiar because they [TS]

01:03:07   used to iOS like just those winds would [TS]

01:03:09   be huge and if you can get those wins [TS]

01:03:11   while also allowing people to do their [TS]

01:03:14   work in the old way if they want to like [TS]

01:03:16   that's talk about progressive disclosure [TS]

01:03:18   like knowing if it's a developer mode [TS]

01:03:20   over it like no believe me people are [TS]

01:03:22   gonna be like I wish I want to have [TS]

01:03:23   developer motor not know nobody wants [TS]

01:03:25   that they wanted to be simple and nice [TS]

01:03:27   like Casey's grandparents their [TS]

01:03:28   overjoyed when it's like oh this is [TS]

01:03:30   simple i just do this to this and it all [TS]

01:03:31   makes sense to me is no place i can get [TS]

01:03:32   into trouble [TS]

01:03:33   they're not going to go looking for the [TS]

01:03:34   thing to turn on developer mode that's [TS]

01:03:36   for power users quote-unquote and yes [TS]

01:03:38   there is a class of person who will go [TS]

01:03:39   looking for it and turn it on and you [TS]

01:03:42   know that because they're interested out [TS]

01:03:44   there you know they're geeks they're [TS]

01:03:44   nerds that's fine but regular people [TS]

01:03:46   trust me do not want the complexity like [TS]

01:03:48   all of us when we go into a preference [TS]

01:03:50   screen and we see an advanced button we [TS]

01:03:51   clicked immediately [TS]

01:03:52   most people don't even want to go to [TS]

01:03:54   preference screen like any one of the [TS]

01:03:55   perfect screen exist they probably don't [TS]

01:03:57   know the parents like it doesn't need to [TS]

01:03:59   exist they just wanted to work and work [TS]

01:04:01   fine so I'm pretty much with Marco that [TS]

01:04:04   I would love a mac that work like this [TS]

01:04:05   as long as I had the option to to you [TS]

01:04:09   know that the developer motor the way to [TS]

01:04:11   do stuff i just i'm not sure how long it [TS]

01:04:15   will take to get there whether Apple has [TS]

01:04:18   the will and the wants dedicated [TS]

01:04:20   resources to get there because it just [TS]

01:04:23   seems like still a much more [TS]

01:04:24   straightforward path [TS]

01:04:25   to continue to hand to enhance iOS I [TS]

01:04:27   feel like iOS is getting this right [TS]

01:04:29   iOS is still getting more sophisticated [TS]

01:04:31   at a faster rate than the mac is getting [TS]

01:04:33   simpler just fine with me as an old Mac [TS]

01:04:35   user but if I start drawing lines on [TS]

01:04:37   grass and seeing how this ends up it [TS]

01:04:39   just seems to me that unless Apple has a [TS]

01:04:42   massively renewed interest in the mac [TS]

01:04:45   that iOS will eventually overtake it [TS]

01:04:47   because for whatever their interest is [TS]

01:04:50   in the mac they're interested in iOS [TS]

01:04:53   seems much stronger on the phone and [TS]

01:04:55   still even a little bit stronger on the [TS]

01:04:57   ipad and who knows what other weird [TS]

01:04:59   devices they're planning and you got the [TS]

01:05:01   watchtower on the mix there to like iOS [TS]

01:05:03   as a legacy free basis for innovation [TS]

01:05:06   seems like a much easier path then [TS]

01:05:08   continuing to bang my head against the [TS]

01:05:10   mac you know the by and large I agree [TS]

01:05:13   with you guys but I can't help but think [TS]

01:05:16   a couple things one it almost sounds [TS]

01:05:19   like you're saying I want the good parts [TS]

01:05:22   of iOS and and none of the parts that [TS]

01:05:24   bother me and that's okay [TS]

01:05:28   like I mean yeah that does sound good to [TS]

01:05:29   know itself but but I mean 442 people [TS]

01:05:34   that really don't seem to be too [TS]

01:05:35   terribly interested in in the ipad it's [TS]

01:05:38   interesting hearing you say oh I'd love [TS]

01:05:40   all that stuff in the ipad whose people [TS]

01:05:42   as i used ipad everyday so what is the [TS]

01:05:45   ipad more than I use my Mac like answer [TS]

01:05:47   that but I do use that back at home i [TS]

01:05:49   use definitely i obviously I were called [TS]

01:05:51   animax so that that's that's the [TS]

01:05:52   majority of my time but in my house I [TS]

01:05:54   use my iPad literally every day and many [TS]

01:05:57   days ago when I don't wake my mac from [TS]

01:05:58   sleep most but I i think to clarify this [TS]

01:06:02   it's not that all of iOS is bad there's [TS]

01:06:04   tons of great stuff and iOS there's tons [TS]

01:06:06   of there's tons of advantages of iOS [TS]

01:06:07   there's a between the way iPads work and [TS]

01:06:12   the way Mac OS works there's a huge [TS]

01:06:16   difference in interaction paradigm the [TS]

01:06:19   file you know the whole different [TS]

01:06:20   between being you know Mac OS is very [TS]

01:06:22   file centric like most PCOS is where [TS]

01:06:25   whereas you know iOS is absent Rick [TS]

01:06:28   these are massive differences in just [TS]

01:06:30   the way the systems work of course you [TS]

01:06:33   can take some of what's good about one [TS]

01:06:35   and apply to the other [TS]

01:06:37   the only question is you know where your [TS]

01:06:38   starting point and and where are you [TS]

01:06:40   going and you know like as you know as [TS]

01:06:42   Johnson it's a lot easier to make the [TS]

01:06:43   make iOS more capable than to make mac [TS]

01:06:46   OS simpler however no matter what you do [TS]

01:06:49   to Iowa it's still going to feel like a [TS]

01:06:52   big phone that's AB centric and and not [TS]

01:06:54   file centric and everything else because [TS]

01:06:56   that's just like the entire amount of [TS]

01:06:57   the system whereas on the mac if what [TS]

01:07:00   you want is the pc style of computing it [TS]

01:07:05   is totally possible with something like [TS]

01:07:08   this crazy scheme that this crazy [TS]

01:07:09   comment that is probably be s it is [TS]

01:07:11   totally possible to to take the best of [TS]

01:07:14   pc start computing make it still work [TS]

01:07:17   the way the people who want that are [TS]

01:07:19   accustomed to but bring in the modern [TS]

01:07:22   advantages of iOS the other that [TS]

01:07:25   somebody makes a lot more sense to me [TS]

01:07:27   imagine if you gave your grandparents [TS]

01:07:29   this mac described in here i think with [TS]

01:07:34   the possible exception of the keyboard [TS]

01:07:35   being intimidating they could be just as [TS]

01:07:38   delighted because from their perspective [TS]

01:07:39   if it's simple and they can figure out [TS]

01:07:42   how to use it like like if it was [TS]

01:07:44   basically as simple as the only way you [TS]

01:07:45   could launch applications is Launchpad [TS]

01:07:47   is Launchpad was always visible in the [TS]

01:07:49   thing would probably have to be touch [TS]

01:07:50   which is another issue entirely in terms [TS]

01:07:53   of bridging that divide but like if they [TS]

01:07:55   were never faced with the complexity of [TS]

01:07:58   an open save dialog box or never had to [TS]

01:08:00   look at a bunch of files or little [TS]

01:08:02   documents on the desktop and never even [TS]

01:08:04   looked at the desktop and it was just [TS]

01:08:05   basically have the simplicity of an ipad [TS]

01:08:07   what happened to be a mac they would be [TS]

01:08:10   just as delighted because they just want [TS]

01:08:11   to accomplish a task the task is video [TS]

01:08:14   you know video conference with the with [TS]

01:08:17   my family and be able to send emails or [TS]

01:08:19   whatever and you and I could say oh if [TS]

01:08:21   you had a macbook door what you can do [TS]

01:08:22   just fine but the difference between a [TS]

01:08:24   macbook adorable ipad that to them is [TS]

01:08:26   huge so all you need to do to delight [TS]

01:08:29   them with a mac is make it so that when [TS]

01:08:31   they use it is just as simple as an iPad [TS]

01:08:33   you can still have lurking under the [TS]

01:08:35   covers all all the other complexity the [TS]

01:08:38   filesystem stuff is a place where we [TS]

01:08:41   continue to punt apple continues to [TS]

01:08:42   point I I hold out hope that there is [TS]

01:08:44   still a better way to collaborate on [TS]

01:08:46   things than the completely absent [TS]

01:08:48   require island model of [TS]

01:08:49   iOS and the complete file central world [TS]

01:08:52   of the pc but considering no one has [TS]

01:08:54   figured out yet you know we'll just [TS]

01:08:56   leave that off to the future but again [TS]

01:08:57   we are talking about the future of [TS]

01:08:58   computing at the present but anyway like [TS]

01:09:00   that that's why I think this this mac is [TS]

01:09:03   a this type of mac is appealing because [TS]

01:09:05   it it will start to blur the lines that [TS]

01:09:08   we're all thinking in terms of because [TS]

01:09:09   once i like this appears on on the scene [TS]

01:09:11   it's not we can't have the same [TS]

01:09:13   conversation anymore it's a different [TS]

01:09:15   conversation entirely you know the thing [TS]

01:09:17   that I'm that I'm curious to see if this [TS]

01:09:22   becomes real one day and it's the three [TS]

01:09:24   of us who are still blathering on the [TS]

01:09:27   show is what are the restrictions in and [TS]

01:09:30   how egregious are they and I mean marco [TS]

01:09:32   talk about this some but like the evo is [TS]

01:09:34   if there's a developer mode what does [TS]

01:09:36   that really give you and do you have a [TS]

01:09:38   BF file system access just to your [TS]

01:09:40   change rooted root area can you get all [TS]

01:09:44   the way to the root can i install a [TS]

01:09:46   colonel extension what I want to I just [TS]

01:09:49   I can't help but feel like let's say [TS]

01:09:52   this dropped in our laps tomorrow and [TS]

01:09:55   you know Mark over you or me or all [TS]

01:09:57   three of us by 1i think inevitably what [TS]

01:10:00   would happen is it would put roadblocks [TS]

01:10:02   in our way in ways we find frustrating [TS]

01:10:05   and what I'm not sure about is would [TS]

01:10:08   your average developer when looking to [TS]

01:10:11   his or her left in seeing the touch bar [TS]

01:10:13   macbook pro and then looking to his or [TS]

01:10:16   her right and seeing this phantom [TS]

01:10:17   arm-based mack i mean certainly I would [TS]

01:10:20   choose them the touch bar macbook pro [TS]

01:10:22   because it doesn't limit me at all and [TS]

01:10:24   in in this hypothetical new mac while it [TS]

01:10:27   does fix a lot of problems for people in [TS]

01:10:29   general I don't think it solves any [TS]

01:10:32   problem that I'm seen today and so i can [TS]

01:10:35   just see I visions of this being like a [TS]

01:10:38   less extreme version of of me saying [TS]

01:10:40   well I don't like working on the iPad [TS]

01:10:42   because i feel like it constrains me and [TS]

01:10:45   I feel like the mac is free because that [TS]

01:10:46   is how i feel and i think that this [TS]

01:10:48   hypothetical new arm Mac would be a lot [TS]

01:10:52   of the same in that regard if perhaps a [TS]

01:10:54   little bit less of it a lot of what we [TS]

01:10:57   what we would want as developers could [TS]

01:10:59   be accomplished through VMS true you [TS]

01:11:02   know it is [TS]

01:11:03   if it was still possible to have virtual [TS]

01:11:05   machines running on this in some form a [TS]

01:11:07   lot of this could be solved by container [TS]

01:11:09   and my virtual machines of like you know [TS]

01:11:12   right like LG's that i just lost a day [TS]

01:11:15   this week on monday i spent a whole day [TS]

01:11:17   finally fixing my local apache and PHP [TS]

01:11:21   mysql installations between my my imac [TS]

01:11:25   and my laptop both of which my laptop [TS]

01:11:27   never had a working one because i did a [TS]

01:11:29   clean install when I got it I just never [TS]

01:11:31   finished setting it up and fixing [TS]

01:11:33   homebrew and fixing PHP and fixing the [TS]

01:11:35   built-in Apache to use the right version [TS]

01:11:37   of PHP and all this crap and the tried [TS]

01:11:40   ma'am and i didn't i didn't like it so I [TS]

01:11:42   stopped trying map and like filling with [TS]

01:11:45   all this stuff that's like all over the [TS]

01:11:46   file system all the stuff that homegroup [TS]

01:11:48   puts and different other package [TS]

01:11:50   managers do it at home brew complaint [TS]

01:11:52   another package managers exists and it's [TS]

01:11:54   like dealing with all this crap all over [TS]

01:11:56   the file system that gets upgraded when [TS]

01:11:57   the system is upgraded that I'm trying [TS]

01:11:59   to put my own stuff into an edit the [TS]

01:12:00   config files and everything else like I [TS]

01:12:03   during a lot of that I'm like you know [TS]

01:12:04   why don't you install VirtualBox and [TS]

01:12:07   just make a Linux VM had just run the [TS]

01:12:10   stuff in there and be fine [TS]

01:12:12   try docker you've got a modern enough [TS]

01:12:14   Matthew can run docker i know i should [TS]

01:12:16   know about docker I know nothing about [TS]

01:12:18   dr. I know you I know these the general [TS]

01:12:21   high-level concept of what it is I've [TS]

01:12:23   never seen it never use it no idea what [TS]

01:12:24   have our how it works but try to dry [TS]

01:12:27   before you go the the full vm route and [TS]

01:12:29   in the meantime you can follow [TS]

01:12:30   everything everything from source [TS]

01:12:31   installing user local like I do well and [TS]

01:12:34   I did I did actually I eventually moved [TS]

01:12:36   to the the full homebrew setup took me [TS]

01:12:40   awhile to realize at home brew install [TS]

01:12:41   its own version of apache but but but [TS]

01:12:43   but it did finally do that but it just [TS]

01:12:46   it was so much messing around so much [TS]

01:12:48   crap i know that that future updates [TS]

01:12:50   will probably break in and never has [TS]

01:12:52   never touched system files you can only [TS]

01:12:55   messing user local do not touch anything [TS]

01:12:57   else pretend it doesn't exist [TS]

01:12:59   yeah and I did eventually move the [TS]

01:13:00   system but my point is that is not that [TS]

01:13:03   different from what if on this on this [TS]

01:13:05   hypothetical you know next-generation [TS]

01:13:08   mac OS lockdown mode which would be the [TS]

01:13:10   only month will what what is OS [TS]

01:13:13   developer mode existed which i think i [TS]

01:13:15   do think that [TS]

01:13:17   developer mode needs to exist where you [TS]

01:13:19   can just compile stuff or you can run [TS]

01:13:21   open source software that is compiled [TS]

01:13:23   from sort through package managers or [TS]

01:13:24   whatever else something you can open [TS]

01:13:26   source stuff you can build yourself and [TS]

01:13:27   just run it and somehow there needs to [TS]

01:13:30   be a way to you know to to distribute [TS]

01:13:33   software out of the app store with [TS]

01:13:34   developer ID gatekeeper whatever that's [TS]

01:13:36   so given those two exceptions it [TS]

01:13:39   supposed developer mode is a rooted in [TS]

01:13:41   such a way that you know you you [TS]

01:13:43   basically get your own version of your [TS]

01:13:44   local in this little virtualized [TS]

01:13:46   environment within your home directory [TS]

01:13:47   that's not that different we have now [TS]

01:13:49   and that's totally fine [TS]

01:13:51   we could totally work with that it would [TS]

01:13:52   be fine as long as there's still a way [TS]

01:13:55   to have a terminal and a way to have to [TS]

01:13:57   compile software you get from other [TS]

01:13:59   places all these workflows don't break [TS]

01:14:01   just the file paths my change slightly [TS]

01:14:04   that's it that could be done well like [TS]

01:14:06   to so that you don't feel constrained [TS]

01:14:09   Casey like that you don't feel like [TS]

01:14:11   you're suddenly traffic is it would just [TS]

01:14:12   be a matter of commands in the sheet and [TS]

01:14:13   flipping switches like I back to normal [TS]

01:14:15   but really that the the ultimate cure [TS]

01:14:17   for this is the same thing that solve [TS]

01:14:20   the exact same situation in the change [TS]

01:14:21   from classic mac OS to OS 10 which was a [TS]

01:14:24   big you know increase in simplicity and [TS]

01:14:27   downgrade and customizability with the [TS]

01:14:29   elimination of whole categories of [TS]

01:14:31   interfaces and ways of working and lots [TS]

01:14:35   of third-party things being replaced by [TS]

01:14:36   1st party things that could not be [TS]

01:14:38   enhanced or replaced in a supportive [TS]

01:14:41   manner [TS]

01:14:42   the solution is guess what there is no [TS]

01:14:45   more classic Michael is sewn it like [TS]

01:14:47   this that was the solution is like well [TS]

01:14:49   did you [TS]

01:14:49   you know go use windows or linux or this [TS]

01:14:52   is the future of the mac like I don't [TS]

01:14:53   envision the mac described in this is a [TS]

01:14:57   comment here existing alongside the [TS]

01:14:59   other max for any appreciable amount of [TS]

01:15:01   time there would be a transition and [TS]

01:15:03   you're on board or you're not and you [TS]

01:15:05   know like take it like that's exactly [TS]

01:15:07   how it would have to work and especially [TS]

01:15:08   if they go there by immigrants but again [TS]

01:15:10   if you could blinken and you know open [TS]

01:15:12   your eyes and this thing was here they [TS]

01:15:13   wouldn't keep them both around the whole [TS]

01:15:15   thing would go away so that would [TS]

01:15:16   basically solve the problem for you and [TS]

01:15:17   hopefully I said you wouldn't feel [TS]

01:15:18   constrained maybe to like to cook we [TS]

01:15:20   keep some of the old thing for 10 more [TS]

01:15:21   years after yeah well you know the [TS]

01:15:24   software that little better but they do [TS]

01:15:25   have great but like yeah he that you [TS]

01:15:28   wouldn't in the same way I [TS]

01:15:30   you know initially a lot of classic mac [TS]

01:15:31   users felt constrained always 10 because [TS]

01:15:33   it was very young and slow and was [TS]

01:15:35   missing a lot of things were simpler and [TS]

01:15:36   in some respects i still feel [TS]

01:15:38   constrained by some of the interface [TS]

01:15:40   things in OS 10 but you get used to it [TS]

01:15:42   eventually becomes the new normal and [TS]

01:15:44   you accept that it comes with many other [TS]

01:15:46   benefits so I would imagine that this [TS]

01:15:48   type of mac would be powerful to you if [TS]

01:15:51   not immediately then in short order as [TS]

01:15:53   again as long as they didn't screw up [TS]

01:15:55   because like one of the ways that Apple [TS]

01:15:56   especially today's Apple could massively [TS]

01:15:58   screws up is by going too far and [TS]

01:16:01   cutting off all those other avenues [TS]

01:16:02   because if the mac can't support that [TS]

01:16:05   type of user like why bother having the [TS]

01:16:07   mac now I'm saying that's the only [TS]

01:16:08   reason for the max existence but it's [TS]

01:16:11   like then what are you even doing you're [TS]

01:16:12   just you're squeezing the mac from both [TS]

01:16:14   sides until it's basically like a really [TS]

01:16:17   weird iOS position the IRS would still [TS]

01:16:19   be advancing so it's like it's really [TS]

01:16:20   weird iOS version that can't do the [TS]

01:16:22   things that used to do but isn't as [TS]

01:16:24   simple as iOS and with all the resources [TS]

01:16:26   into morphing the mac into this thing [TS]

01:16:28   and it's like what's the point that [TS]

01:16:30   point you you have to concede that back [TS]

01:16:32   and had the right approach and that [TS]

01:16:33   you've just been wasting your time this [TS]

01:16:34   duel a strategy as you shave one of your [TS]

01:16:37   oasis from both sides until all that's [TS]

01:16:39   left is a little skinny spindle just [TS]

01:16:40   topples over when and if they did this [TS]

01:16:43   again like I said earlier like that you [TS]

01:16:46   know this we haven't had a major OS [TS]

01:16:47   tradition in awhile from Apple not since [TS]

01:16:49   you know tonight or whatever it was [TS]

01:16:51   John I'm sure has some idea when that [TS]

01:16:52   was huh 2001 was 10.1 there you know [TS]

01:16:56   they have some I guess yeah so you know [TS]

01:16:59   we have a tradition says that in the [TS]

01:17:01   windows world they have them a little [TS]

01:17:03   more often but this those come that [TS]

01:17:05   often and when you have a major OS [TS]

01:17:08   transition like that one of the one of [TS]

01:17:10   the luxuries of this it is painful no [TS]

01:17:13   question it's painful it it's time [TS]

01:17:15   consuming for a while there's like [TS]

01:17:17   there's a transition period that that [TS]

01:17:18   just sucks for everybody [TS]

01:17:20   however it is an opportunity to [TS]

01:17:23   modernize app frameworks to add new [TS]

01:17:26   capabilities to do things it's basically [TS]

01:17:30   take the opportunity that that you have [TS]

01:17:33   that your kind of forcing at makers to [TS]

01:17:35   do something new to do like a major [TS]

01:17:37   update or to order to even do a rewrite [TS]

01:17:40   to take the opportunity to make it [TS]

01:17:43   better for everybody so for instance [TS]

01:17:44   some of the things they could do with [TS]

01:17:46   the mac and if they did this and if they [TS]

01:17:48   presumably broke a lot of old apps the [TS]

01:17:51   fight they could finally make like a [TS]

01:17:52   more unified UI framework for one like [TS]

01:17:55   make UI kit for the mac and i don't mean [TS]

01:17:58   make everything look like navigation [TS]

01:17:59   controllers and make it all function the [TS]

01:18:01   same way in the UI but you know this [TS]

01:18:03   like some of the simple low hanging [TS]

01:18:04   fruit like like unify the way like table [TS]

01:18:06   views of your load their data and making [TS]

01:18:10   sure we don't have NS color and you I [TS]

01:18:11   call her anymore and stuff like that [TS]

01:18:13   like there's a lot of they could do to [TS]

01:18:14   unify those two frameworks they could do [TS]

01:18:16   things like as i mentioned previously [TS]

01:18:18   cellular max because they could [TS]

01:18:21   implement better control over networking [TS]

01:18:23   and and do all this to like it would be [TS]

01:18:26   given the opportunity to it it would [TS]

01:18:30   force us to to live for a while with [TS]

01:18:32   incompatible software with all we can't [TS]

01:18:35   do this in the US yet because this [TS]

01:18:37   hasn't updated or whatever we have to [TS]

01:18:38   drag along Microsoft and Adobe or [TS]

01:18:40   whatever else but then we got there it [TS]

01:18:42   could be so much better because at [TS]

01:18:45   makers have been forced to update right [TS]

01:18:46   now the mac software ecosystem is is you [TS]

01:18:49   know there are some bright spots but a [TS]

01:18:51   lot of its just a graveyard because most [TS]

01:18:54   people who make mac apps it's it's a low [TS]

01:18:56   priority for them because they can keep [TS]

01:18:58   making the same old app over and over [TS]

01:19:00   again it's fine and they can focus their [TS]

01:19:01   efforts on iOS and stuff if the mac [TS]

01:19:03   changes [TS]

01:19:05   yes some of them we will some of them we [TS]

01:19:06   lost but the ones that want to stay in [TS]

01:19:09   the mac will have to put effort into it [TS]

01:19:10   and that will make their ass better that [TS]

01:19:12   will make it better for all of us like [TS]

01:19:13   it there there would be a substantial [TS]

01:19:16   silver lining [TS]

01:19:17   not to mention all the all the benefits [TS]

01:19:19   of the OS itself as a set of things like [TS]

01:19:21   the better security better sandboxing of [TS]

01:19:23   the apps like not having a crap call [TS]

01:19:25   over the system [TS]

01:19:26   this could be really good in a number of [TS]

01:19:29   ways if something like this were to [TS]

01:19:31   happen it would definitely be painful [TS]

01:19:34   and some stuff that you could do now in [TS]

01:19:36   mac OS you'd never be able to do on this [TS]

01:19:38   but look at this to talk about together [TS]

01:19:42   look at how many people do everything [TS]

01:19:45   they need to do on phones and I'm and [TS]

01:19:47   iPads this can do more than that [TS]

01:19:50   everyone who says like they can't do [TS]

01:19:52   stuff on iOS [TS]

01:19:54   sometimes it's because of the capability [TS]

01:19:56   to iOS just never able to get a bit of a [TS]

01:19:58   security model but sometimes it's just [TS]

01:20:00   because it doesn't have a very good [TS]

01:20:01   multitasking model or a very good file [TS]

01:20:02   system model or very you know that [TS]

01:20:04   things that the bed this would actually [TS]

01:20:05   have so I think it would be a painful [TS]

01:20:10   transition to go to something like this [TS]

01:20:11   but it wouldn't be impossible we would [TS]

01:20:14   all grumble we all complain but then we [TS]

01:20:16   get on board a few things would be [TS]

01:20:19   possible anymore forever and we deal and [TS]

01:20:21   we deal with that we'd find new [TS]

01:20:22   solutions like if I couldn't use audio [TS]

01:20:25   hijack anymore to record this phone call [TS]

01:20:27   from skype then we'd probably either [TS]

01:20:29   stop using skype or we will you know we [TS]

01:20:32   could switch to one of those like [TS]

01:20:33   web-based podcast recording things [TS]

01:20:34   already like five of those and there's [TS]

01:20:36   only gonna be more about time this thing [TS]

01:20:37   ever exists so like it like there's [TS]

01:20:40   there's always work around there's [TS]

01:20:41   always things like time was time would [TS]

01:20:43   solve any pain that would be there so i [TS]

01:20:45   think even though this is probably all [TS]

01:20:48   wrong and based on this one weird post [TS]

01:20:51   on slashdot that's probably BS this kind [TS]

01:20:54   of sounds cool and if it happened [TS]

01:20:56   assuming had those the did those two [TS]

01:20:58   exceptions developer mode and developer [TS]

01:21:00   ID distribution I think it'd be really [TS]

01:21:02   nice to throw cold water and this we [TS]

01:21:05   have to bring back to our old refrain [TS]

01:21:06   anytime we discussed anything radical [TS]

01:21:08   happening to the mac is like yeah but [TS]

01:21:10   that would cost a lot of money and take [TS]

01:21:11   a lot of time and resources and does [TS]

01:21:13   Apple want to put that much money into [TS]

01:21:14   its legacy platform or are you want to [TS]

01:21:17   describe the mac because sales volume [TS]

01:21:19   wise you can justify almost any [TS]

01:21:21   investment in iOS can you justify that [TS]

01:21:24   same and the ipad is along for the ride [TS]

01:21:26   because even though the ipads volume is [TS]

01:21:28   similar to the mac guess what it's got [TS]

01:21:30   the same as the phone so congratulations [TS]

01:21:32   you get a lot of development stuff [TS]

01:21:33   quorum court for free but this would be [TS]

01:21:35   a hell of an investment like it would be [TS]

01:21:36   on the scale of the classic colors 10 [TS]

01:21:38   transaction release close maybe not that [TS]

01:21:40   big but it would be closed and it would [TS]

01:21:42   be the biggest investment in the mac [TS]

01:21:44   software wise in many many many years [TS]

01:21:46   and so I think it could you know i'm not [TS]

01:21:50   saying it couldn't be that the right [TS]

01:21:51   people pitch it it could be sold within [TS]

01:21:54   the company but it would be a departure [TS]

01:21:55   from the historic investment mac which [TS]

01:21:59   has been good and it's you know it [TS]

01:22:00   hasn't been as high since the transition [TS]

01:22:02   from always as you know as is [TS]

01:22:03   appropriate or even the transition for [TS]

01:22:05   cpu architecture [TS]

01:22:06   this would be an architecture transition [TS]

01:22:08   and a nice transition that is the second [TS]

01:22:11   biggest one that Apple has ever done and [TS]

01:22:14   you know where we're all on board for it [TS]

01:22:16   and would be ready for but i'm not [TS]

01:22:17   entirely sure that Apple is ready to put [TS]

01:22:21   that money into the mac which now that [TS]

01:22:23   is the that is the most dubious thing [TS]

01:22:25   about this random / comp again I got it [TS]

01:22:28   I wouldn't characterize it as novel [TS]

01:22:30   understand what characterizes it as it [TS]

01:22:32   really reiteration of the the [TS]

01:22:35   prototypical idea of a mac merge with [TS]

01:22:37   iOS resurfacing now in a new context a [TS]

01:22:40   new context is the new apple and the new [TS]

01:22:43   state of Intel vs arm and the new sales [TS]

01:22:47   figures for ipad and almost new people [TS]

01:22:50   being older and wiser and having seen [TS]

01:22:51   more than tech world reconsidering the [TS]

01:22:53   same thing [TS]

01:22:54   well in that case I will put it in terms [TS]

01:22:56   they will understand you can sell ipad [TS]

01:22:58   hardware for $1,500 already do [TS]

01:23:02   that's not including all the cases and [TS]

01:23:06   that's our end thanks to our three [TS]

01:23:08   sponsors this week betterment [TS]

01:23:09   Squarespace and set appt and we will see [TS]

01:23:11   you next week so I've got harder for [TS]

01:23:13   macbook pro prices 2600 there you go now [TS]

01:23:20   the show is over they didn't even mean [TS]

01:23:23   to be in because it was accidental [TS]

01:23:27   it was accidental Jonathan [TS]

01:23:31   acer Marco in kc would [TS]

01:23:35   because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

01:23:39   and you can find show know today cp/m [TS]

01:23:44   and it for twitter follow them [TS]

01:23:50   [Music] [TS]

01:23:51   yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:23:56   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are see you at [TS]

01:24:05   Syracuse [TS]

01:24:13   what [TS]

01:24:17   so Casey I hear you're having some car [TS]

01:24:22   trouble [TS]

01:24:23   yes indeed so I brought my car in to get [TS]

01:24:28   the oil changed as I don't care that you [TS]

01:24:31   think that's preposterous don't care I [TS]

01:24:33   don't the time I why was that [TS]

01:24:35   preposterous is because you're talking [TS]

01:24:37   to also the audience was nothing the [TS]

01:24:39   audience I'm hopefully preventing your [TS]

01:24:41   he's talking about not changing your own [TS]

01:24:43   oil [TS]

01:24:43   oh you ok you can set to tweet to [TS]

01:24:46   absolutely nothing about how angry you [TS]

01:24:47   are that I'm not changing my own oil [TS]

01:24:49   even people who change their own oil I [TS]

01:24:51   feel like now realize that they are [TS]

01:24:53   outliers probably so I had a coupon i [TS]

01:24:57   was very excited and coupon so my BMW [TS]

01:24:59   oil change is supposed to be ninety [TS]

01:25:01   dollars which I understand this expense [TS]

01:25:03   when you're getting into the dealership [TS]

01:25:04   now it's time for me to school gym [TS]

01:25:06   yeah that was going to the dealership [TS]

01:25:08   now you're gonna hear from them [TS]

01:25:09   yep it's so okay i understand i am not [TS]

01:25:13   innocent in and I haven't I have made [TS]

01:25:16   mistakes mistakes have been made [TS]

01:25:17   yeah i do the same thing well you don't [TS]

01:25:20   get your oil changed anymore but I did [TS]

01:25:22   if you're going to the dealership anyway [TS]

01:25:24   ok but if you're going to the dealership [TS]

01:25:26   to get your oil changed no don't do [TS]

01:25:28   bottle I don't trust like a jiffy lube [TS]

01:25:31   or anything like that no GC I guess you [TS]

01:25:34   don't have a Ferrari we have to go to [TS]

01:25:35   this special little Italian person with [TS]

01:25:37   a wire synthetic it doesn't matter the [TS]

01:25:39   point noted for the record I think it [TS]

01:25:41   might be covered when you have a lease [TS]

01:25:43   i'm not sure but just for the record [TS]

01:25:44   there and it's pretty then yes yes by [TS]

01:25:47   all means but I believe they are and it [TS]

01:25:49   was free for me when I first on the [TS]

01:25:50   carcass told some of the maintenance [TS]

01:25:52   program yeah like five years right side [TS]

01:25:54   forget it was for I think it doesn't [TS]

01:25:56   really matter but anyway so I had my $90 [TS]

01:25:59   coupon am all excited with myself [TS]

01:26:01   well I had the wherewithal to ask for [TS]

01:26:03   loner which I was very glad for will see [TS]

01:26:05   why in a moment but here's my tiny doll [TS]

01:26:07   coupon i should expect to see you later [TS]

01:26:09   today I probably didn't even need to [TS]

01:26:11   bother getting a loaner i'm going to [TS]

01:26:13   drive it the handful of miles to work [TS]

01:26:14   and then probably immediately later the [TS]

01:26:17   you know handful miles back and that'll [TS]

01:26:18   be that [TS]

01:26:19   I get a call as i'm out to lunch and [TS]

01:26:22   they say and so many words [TS]

01:26:24   oh ye things relating to the drivetrain [TS]

01:26:28   in the front [TS]

01:26:29   I have an all-wheel-drive BMW before you [TS]

01:26:30   get [TS]

01:26:31   angry I things related to the drivetrain [TS]

01:26:33   the front like tie rods and bushings and [TS]

01:26:35   things of that nature and the adjustment [TS]

01:26:38   screw that you use in order to do an [TS]

01:26:40   alignment has seized things are breaking [TS]

01:26:42   that will be a thousand dollars please [TS]

01:26:44   when you'll get your car back tomorrow [TS]

01:26:45   because we don't have all the parts fine [TS]

01:26:48   so in and of itself ok fine the car has [TS]

01:26:51   almost 70,000 miles on it if i remember [TS]

01:26:53   correctly it is not unreasonable that [TS]

01:26:57   things would be going wrong but in the [TS]

01:27:00   last see Rand change i had a five or six [TS]

01:27:06   thousand dollar repair the van Gogh [TS]

01:27:07   system i had a thousand-dollar a water [TS]

01:27:12   pump issue that was almost last month it [TS]

01:27:15   was just barely in december and now I [TS]

01:27:17   have this thousand-dollar issue and I [TS]

01:27:19   think this is the universe giving me a [TS]

01:27:21   sign that this car is not long for this [TS]

01:27:23   world so I'm getting some pressure from [TS]

01:27:26   erin and i think it's completely [TS]

01:27:28   justified to unload the thing because [TS]

01:27:30   it's just me I can't keep the damn thing [TS]

01:27:31   on the road and I at first I was [TS]

01:27:34   resisting but now I'm to the point that [TS]

01:27:36   I'm like screw it this thing is not [TS]

01:27:38   worth my time anymore i want to get rid [TS]

01:27:40   of it now on paper the right answer is [TS]

01:27:43   get a brand-new 3-series maybe an m3 if [TS]

01:27:45   I want to spend too much money [TS]

01:27:47   maintenance will be covered at least in [TS]

01:27:48   the beginning it will have a nice big [TS]

01:27:50   fat warranty [TS]

01:27:51   problem solved except I feel like I've [TS]

01:27:53   been burned by BMW i think new ones are [TS]

01:27:56   as I think we talked about recently new [TS]

01:27:58   ones are just unaffordable so and then [TS]

01:28:02   that becomes okay well define get a [TS]

01:28:04   pre-owned one well I just did that and [TS]

01:28:05   yes this one that this hypothetical new [TS]

01:28:07   pre-owned one would be with a with the [TS]

01:28:10   cpo warranty which goes to like a [TS]

01:28:12   hundred thousand miles and yes that's [TS]

01:28:13   possible but even if i'm not paying [TS]

01:28:16   out-of-pocket constantly for my car to [TS]

01:28:18   be in the shop [TS]

01:28:18   my car stalled the damn shop all the [TS]

01:28:20   time and in and I feel like the moment [TS]

01:28:23   to BWW gets past like least time things [TS]

01:28:28   start falling apart and I have been [TS]

01:28:29   friends have had that have had similar [TS]

01:28:31   experiences i just want to be bothered [TS]

01:28:33   by it so i have many options in front of [TS]

01:28:37   me if you recall my requirements which [TS]

01:28:41   are somewhat loose our I don't want [TS]

01:28:43   front-wheel drive [TS]

01:28:44   I wanted to get to 60 in under six [TS]

01:28:46   seconds I don't care that that's not [TS]

01:28:49   necessary on regular roads that's what i [TS]

01:28:51   want i want three pedals and that's [TS]

01:28:55   mostly it so what are my options [TS]

01:28:59   I'm only thinking about new right now [TS]

01:29:02   and then i'm going to start trying to [TS]

01:29:04   Rack my brain for used because i'm not [TS]

01:29:06   opposed to going used but looking at it [TS]

01:29:10   I think every single one of my options [TS]

01:29:14   has problems [TS]

01:29:16   a friend of mine actually just written [TS]

01:29:18   in cadillac ats great call but the [TS]

01:29:21   infotainment is from everything I've [TS]

01:29:22   ever understood unusable just utterly [TS]

01:29:25   unusable and I don't know if it has [TS]

01:29:28   carplay I'd have to check that out so [TS]

01:29:30   that is a potential if I'm also hideous [TS]

01:29:35   yeah it's too early to be three we've [TS]

01:29:37   seen in saree great car [TS]

01:29:39   don't let that fairly hideous i'm not [TS]

01:29:40   arguing fairly hideous [TS]

01:29:42   ok so let's just lie I it sounds like [TS]

01:29:44   the the brain trust has eliminated that [TS]

01:29:45   so if i'm going to have wrong wheel [TS]

01:29:48   drive focus st the problem with that [TS]

01:29:51   other than it being a fortune of itself [TS]

01:29:53   is fine but it's front-wheel drive which [TS]

01:29:56   I don't particularly care for and then [TS]

01:29:59   the RS is also is the RS whatever the [TS]

01:30:02   super Pavarotti one is that one is just [TS]

01:30:05   to 18 year old for me i'm turning 35 [TS]

01:30:08   next month just no way the st is a [TS]

01:30:10   reasonable compromise but wrong wheel [TS]

01:30:12   drive if i'm going to go back to [TS]

01:30:14   deutschland i have the volkswagen GTI [TS]

01:30:16   the Golf R which is the thing that I [TS]

01:30:18   think I'm most interested in the a4 and [TS]

01:30:20   the s3 which is basically a go far but [TS]

01:30:22   in today and former from that mistake [TS]

01:30:23   that come on what which what what he [TS]

01:30:27   wasn't a series of little euro [TS]

01:30:29   hatchbacks and you lump the a4 on the s3 [TS]

01:30:31   and then like no it's the same thing now [TS]

01:30:33   therefore is wildly different the s3 i [TS]

01:30:35   thought was basically a drivetrain of [TS]

01:30:37   the Golf R I am I am onday you under the [TS]

01:30:39   under the covers sure but it's a whole [TS]

01:30:41   like from the outside it's 2 difference [TS]

01:30:43   between driving around in a rabbit [TS]

01:30:44   driving around got a car you're dating [TS]

01:30:47   yourself well and he doesn't mean i [TS]

01:30:50   could rule out all fours right now for [TS]

01:30:52   you because 84 you can go it's a little [TS]

01:30:55   boring but i think they should try [TS]

01:30:56   before he decides to boring [TS]

01:30:57   it's nice-looking it has the features he [TS]

01:30:59   wants is reasonably nice inside and out [TS]

01:31:01   the main slam against it is that it's [TS]

01:31:03   more boring than the BMW's but i think [TS]

01:31:05   we should test drive is the a4 even [TS]

01:31:07   available in stick [TS]

01:31:09   yes it is okay and I thought it was [TS]

01:31:11   anyway I don't know it is alright so the [TS]

01:31:14   a4 is basically a 3-series that's [TS]

01:31:18   slightly worse like I depends on what [TS]

01:31:21   you want if you want if you want less if [TS]

01:31:23   you want it smoother kind of nicer even [TS]

01:31:26   keel explicates if you want a crappier [TS]

01:31:29   interior and higher prices [TS]

01:31:31   yeah you know i deserted nice they look [TS]

01:31:33   nice don't feel nice i am not so sure I [TS]

01:31:37   agree with you there [TS]

01:31:38   also i drive is way better than their [TS]

01:31:39   window system i drive is lightyears [TS]

01:31:42   better than mi mi at least as of about a [TS]

01:31:45   year ago I didn't know there's [TS]

01:31:46   definitely a more updated whatever its [TS]

01:31:48   toll on the old one [TS]

01:31:49   yes yeah I don't know either i thought [TS]

01:31:51   it was it had the new hotness one which [TS]

01:31:53   i have yet to try but they but the a4 [TS]

01:31:57   supports carplay I don't think it's [TS]

01:31:59   wireless carplay but it's carplay the s3 [TS]

01:32:05   is basically a call far although body- [TS]

01:32:08   saying it might be dsg only which might [TS]

01:32:10   eliminated from contention then the Gulf [TS]

01:32:13   are obviously all of these are appealing [TS]

01:32:16   because they are not front-wheel drive [TS]

01:32:17   but that's going back to Germany and I [TS]

01:32:22   can't tell if this is a German car [TS]

01:32:24   problem or if it's a BMW problem it so [TS]

01:32:27   it's it's a expensive car problems every [TS]

01:32:29   car around 60,000 miles especially if [TS]

01:32:32   you live in the northeast which you [TS]

01:32:33   don't really but if you did like around [TS]

01:32:35   60 or 70,000 crap starts falling apart [TS]

01:32:38   and breaking or whatever the problem is [TS]

01:32:39   that crap falls apart brakes on a BMW [TS]

01:32:41   cause a billion dollars to fix that's [TS]

01:32:43   that's where your problems like any car [TS]

01:32:44   you keep for that number of miles you're [TS]

01:32:46   going to add like if you have a car [TS]

01:32:48   400,000 ultimately replace the water [TS]

01:32:49   pump is not a surprise because nothing [TS]

01:32:51   that happens right that's part of the [TS]

01:32:53   water pump cost you fifteen hundred [TS]

01:32:54   bucks then you're you know you're [TS]

01:32:57   driving BMW right that's the thing is [TS]

01:32:59   that in and of itself any one of these [TS]

01:33:00   repairs fine whatever well maybe not the [TS]

01:33:02   vanos exploding but generally and I got [TS]

01:33:05   the engine stuff I feel like you got a [TS]

01:33:07   Honda would still be fine you [TS]

01:33:08   not need to put that much money into the [TS]

01:33:11   india the entire body would rust off the [TS]

01:33:13   car before the engine when you work in a [TS]

01:33:15   Honda so yeah so I could go back to [TS]

01:33:18   Germany go far a for s3 apparently is [TS]

01:33:23   definitely dsg only from what I'm being [TS]

01:33:26   told so that's eliminated from [TS]

01:33:28   contention [TS]

01:33:29   it's also really overpriced for what [TS]

01:33:30   you're buying that's probably true i [TS]

01:33:32   forgot to mention the GTI i think i [TS]

01:33:35   mentioned the GTI I've heard the [TS]

01:33:36   performance pack is phenomenal the GTI [TS]

01:33:39   performance pack however that is also [TS]

01:33:40   wrong wheel drive so so far still in [TS]

01:33:44   contention focus st wrong wheel drive [TS]

01:33:47   GTI performance pack wrong wheel drive [TS]

01:33:49   our German a for German a little bit [TS]

01:33:52   boring and then now i get into like the [TS]

01:33:55   real Slim Pickens if I'm willing to go [TS]

01:33:57   extremely slowly i could get an accord [TS]

01:34:00   which I cannot I cannot option the way I [TS]

01:34:02   want or a mazda 6 which I cannot option [TS]

01:34:04   the way I want and then if I'm willing [TS]

01:34:06   to live inside of my car because I will [TS]

01:34:09   be divorced and never get to see my wife [TS]

01:34:11   or child again I could get a Tesla so no [TS]

01:34:14   so here here's one of the one of the big [TS]

01:34:16   questions here is do you want to be a [TS]

01:34:18   car that can comfortably hold your kid [TS]

01:34:20   sitting here now yes that's probably [TS]

01:34:23   ruining everything but yeah we're gonna [TS]

01:34:26   go with us on this one because then your [TS]

01:34:27   only options on this list that can go [TS]

01:34:30   fast on the model s that's it like the [TS]

01:34:32   center of the a4 goes pretty fast [TS]

01:34:35   it's it's about the same speed as my [TS]

01:34:37   cards a little slower but not too much [TS]

01:34:38   load onto the Endor if already galant [TS]

01:34:41   vr4 I think you need to go to dealer and [TS]

01:34:44   Casey needs to go to a dealer and for [TS]

01:34:46   now you're not buying just going there [TS]

01:34:48   to look at it maybe take a test-drive [TS]

01:34:49   poke around you're not even thinking of [TS]

01:34:51   buying just check it out because I feel [TS]

01:34:53   like you're the Marcos aunty aunty [TS]

01:34:55   biases is hot out he's my right-hand [TS]

01:34:57   warranted out is great but being buddies [TS]

01:34:59   better [TS]

01:34:59   it's simple as that like out he makes [TS]

01:35:00   great collar current ones not the [TS]

01:35:02   current 3 series with a weirdo electric [TS]

01:35:04   steering and the ugly outsides and the [TS]

01:35:06   bazillion dollars for the options [TS]

01:35:08   well but I mean talk about Brazilian I [TS]

01:35:09   was options out he is also the same way [TS]

01:35:11   about the option pricing and the repair [TS]

01:35:13   losses and everything else like that [TS]

01:35:14   basically in in most of the downsides [TS]

01:35:17   they're the same or roughly the same and [TS]

01:35:20   and I think BMWs upsides are better [TS]

01:35:22   basically I think out these are it get [TS]

01:35:24   there nice cars and some of them are [TS]

01:35:26   really nice cars but the interior I've [TS]

01:35:29   always thought felt noticeably cheaper [TS]

01:35:31   than w's I the media system is is a [TS]

01:35:35   major step backwards [TS]

01:35:36   I agree yeah and and they actually kind [TS]

01:35:41   of surprised they saw first because i [TS]

01:35:42   think most of the cars they don't even [TS]

01:35:44   offered as an option anymore although to [TS]

01:35:45   be fair but he's not that different in [TS]

01:35:46   that regard so yeah you can get you can [TS]

01:35:49   get in a for premium plus with all-wheel [TS]

01:35:53   drive and actually the only available [TS]

01:35:56   transmission is the six-speed it does [TS]

01:35:59   have carpet by the way I just flipping [TS]

01:36:00   through their website they got a big [TS]

01:36:01   screen shot again it's not wireless but [TS]

01:36:04   data is it is carplay nevertheless so [TS]

01:36:07   that would be so if we were on the a4 [TS]

01:36:09   which one the premium plus just a plain [TS]

01:36:11   all day for I'm just walking through the [TS]

01:36:13   things with extreme front-wheel drive or [TS]

01:36:15   all-wheel drive now all-wheel-drive okay [TS]

01:36:17   to have that a stick [TS]

01:36:18   yeah that's what I think it's easily my [TS]

01:36:21   car I mean it's well it's a [TS]

01:36:22   four-cylinder turbo but otherwise it's [TS]

01:36:24   basically my card six-speed all-wheel [TS]

01:36:26   drive etc I wasn't aware they were still [TS]

01:36:27   making novel drive with stick that's [TS]

01:36:29   pretty well in i think this is new I [TS]

01:36:31   think they just added the manual [TS]

01:36:34   transmission option like this model year [TS]

01:36:35   even though i think the Refresh happened [TS]

01:36:37   months and months ago maybe that's not [TS]

01:36:39   the thing about dude about the time to [TS]

01:36:41   get ready required it's not so much the [TS]

01:36:43   point of your car is falling apart is [TS]

01:36:44   that the longer you wait the less chance [TS]

01:36:45   you have to get any car with a stick a [TS]

01:36:47   temperature but I mean you aren't you [TS]

01:36:50   you would have some morning when that [TS]

01:36:51   was going to happen anyway that is in in [TS]

01:36:54   broad strokes that is true so i would [TS]

01:36:56   say for you I'm telling you as a friend [TS]

01:36:59   Casey I'm just find the damn test this [TS]

01:37:02   is this [TS]

01:37:02   no no I'm telling you as a friend this [TS]

01:37:04   is my intervention here i would rather [TS]

01:37:07   you buy an overpriced German hatchback [TS]

01:37:10   then the whole night I had listened I [TS]

01:37:13   would rather you buy it now price German [TS]

01:37:14   hatchback then to have you compromise on [TS]

01:37:18   what's really important to you and to [TS]

01:37:20   have you get a quarter mazda well that's [TS]

01:37:22   the thing is like I I the accord is a [TS]

01:37:24   nice but what about versus the a41 to [TS]

01:37:27   just eliminate that one I can understand [TS]

01:37:29   what you're saying like I'd rather have [TS]

01:37:30   you get a sporty hatchback that boring [TS]

01:37:31   stand fine right [TS]

01:37:33   while have you got a sporty hatchback [TS]

01:37:34   than a sporty sedan [TS]

01:37:35   like me for no I the a forest is fine [TS]

01:37:39   you know it you you know you've driven [TS]

01:37:41   one before kc you know you know what [TS]

01:37:43   they are yes but I haven't driven one of [TS]

01:37:45   the new ones that was the last 1i drove [TS]

01:37:47   was the pre refresh version and my [TS]

01:37:49   understanding is a lot changed with this [TS]

01:37:53   refresh president then it's worth it's [TS]

01:37:55   definitely worth seeing because as we [TS]

01:37:56   know BMW has had some some shortcomings [TS]

01:37:59   with the new 3-series i completely agree [TS]

01:38:01   with you guys a for absolutely [TS]

01:38:03   absolutely worth a look [TS]

01:38:04   I think the Gulf are would probably be a [TS]

01:38:07   more exciting car I and certainly i'm [TS]

01:38:10   pretty sure to be considerably quicker [TS]

01:38:12   but the a4 I think would be sufficient [TS]

01:38:14   in every metric that I can think to [TS]

01:38:18   throw at it also expensive to repair and [TS]

01:38:20   maintained by the way [TS]

01:38:21   well and you're still shopping and [TS]

01:38:23   german luxury sedans and so but you but [TS]

01:38:25   if you get especially if you got it so [TS]

01:38:26   here's having a question would you [TS]

01:38:28   consider either new financing or leasing [TS]

01:38:31   which would then take care of the [TS]

01:38:32   maintenance issue for the most part of [TS]

01:38:34   it entirely [TS]

01:38:35   yeah see I mean financing whatever [TS]

01:38:37   that's the the oven whatever but it do [TS]

01:38:40   it just leaves i hope i don't want to [TS]

01:38:41   lease a car like I don't think places of [TS]

01:38:44   you can get a model 3 if you're lucky [TS]

01:38:46   well that's true so the thing with [TS]

01:38:48   leasing is is that in a perfect world [TS]

01:38:51   what I want is the situation we have a [TS]

01:38:54   parent's car errands car has been in the [TS]

01:38:56   shop for repairs fewer times in the 10 [TS]

01:38:59   years we've owned it well [TS]

01:39:01   nine-and-a-half at this point then my [TS]

01:39:02   car has in the last 10 months and what [TS]

01:39:05   is it a boring reliable japanese koto [TS]

01:39:07   boring reliable japanese place boring [TS]

01:39:09   slow and reliable that you don't want [TS]

01:39:11   that that would crush your soul that but [TS]

01:39:13   I bought something but it will crush my [TS]

01:39:15   soul but i want something that will last [TS]

01:39:16   more than 10 freaking minutes you have [TS]

01:39:18   it's called Aaron's car that's called [TS]

01:39:21   all my honda accords yes no look if you [TS]

01:39:24   want if you want to have a board [TS]

01:39:26   reliable car there's lots of great [TS]

01:39:28   options [TS]

01:39:29   pretty much everything hot from honda [TS]

01:39:30   toyota is lots of good odds are born as [TS]

01:39:33   bar comas exciting is it going to be [TS]

01:39:35   given a horsepower em right i'm not [TS]

01:39:37   saying this is this is a powerful engine [TS]

01:39:39   in it but it is ok but the thinking [TS]

01:39:42   man's BMW racecar driver not know [TS]

01:39:47   ok but anyway test drive one of those [TS]

01:39:49   anyway you won't be able to find a stick [TS]

01:39:51   to test drive but you should well I [TS]

01:39:52   don't know maybe next time you visit you [TS]

01:39:54   can test drive mine and see what it's [TS]

01:39:55   like [TS]

01:39:56   I mean I the thought has crossed my mind [TS]

01:39:58   that maybe it is worth testing it [TS]

01:39:59   because my god it's just it's bananas [TS]

01:40:02   that that all I I mean I ok I understand [TS]

01:40:05   that what I'm about to say is a bit [TS]

01:40:06   preposterous but all i want is a [TS]

01:40:09   six-speed not front-wheel-drive car with [TS]

01:40:13   four doors that gets to 60 in less than [TS]

01:40:17   six seconds that will last for more than [TS]

01:40:19   60,000 miles is that so much to ask how [TS]

01:40:22   fast as they for [TS]

01:40:24   I think five and a half ish something [TS]

01:40:26   like that it's actually much quicker [TS]

01:40:27   than one would think i'm even go to the [TS]

01:40:29   s4 if you want more out of it but i [TS]

01:40:31   wanted to write I wouldn't do I [TS]

01:40:33   certainly wouldn't be doing that knew [TS]

01:40:34   for sure [TS]

01:40:35   so here's the thing look I mean this is [TS]

01:40:37   one of those like you know project [TS]

01:40:38   management triangle situations like it [TS]

01:40:40   is it for what you want [TS]

01:40:42   there's basically you have to either [TS]

01:40:44   pick like fast but crappy or like you [TS]

01:40:49   know slow but nice or use an expensive [TS]

01:40:53   to maintain like he you have to pick [TS]

01:40:55   apart these things or you raise the [TS]

01:40:58   budget and you get divorced I mean it [TS]

01:41:00   one of those like one of these things [TS]

01:41:03   has to budge for you you have to be [TS]

01:41:05   willing to tolerate something that you [TS]

01:41:07   don't want to tolerate right now so when [TS]

01:41:10   that is the shame of driving an Audi or [TS]

01:41:13   its weather is shameful whether it's [TS]

01:41:16   spending more than you wanted to spend [TS]

01:41:17   or whether it's having more high price [TS]

01:41:20   maintenance down the road or giving up [TS]

01:41:22   your entire soul and and driving an [TS]

01:41:24   accord and I say this is somebody who [TS]

01:41:26   fought in the court at one time and [TS]

01:41:28   enjoy it for a couple years opportunity [TS]

01:41:30   cost to think about how much of what you [TS]

01:41:32   could buy with the money you say buying [TS]

01:41:33   the accord and how much happier that [TS]

01:41:34   would make you is there anything that [TS]

01:41:36   would make Casey happier than a fast car [TS]

01:41:37   John yeah that's the place I understand [TS]

01:41:41   what you're driving at but this is casey [TS]

01:41:43   were talking about my college education [TS]

01:41:44   for your children just saying this is [TS]

01:41:47   not going to make or break declan's [TS]

01:41:48   college education from students right so [TS]

01:41:50   therefore I i think basically you have [TS]

01:41:53   you have a tough decision to make [TS]

01:41:55   John push you towards the accord John [TS]

01:41:58   percent of the audi understand he should [TS]

01:42:00   the court isn't as bad as you make it [TS]

01:42:02   out to be but nobody wants something [TS]

01:42:04   faster so the quarters in it so tragic I [TS]

01:42:06   mean basically since none of the three [TS]

01:42:09   of us have driven the current generation [TS]

01:42:10   apparently the newest a4a yeah I guess I [TS]

01:42:14   come around I think you should try that [TS]

01:42:15   because i do find the the f generation [TS]

01:42:19   of bmw's the f30 generation of people [TS]

01:42:21   used to be pretty underwhelming a lot of [TS]

01:42:23   ways and as you mentioned quite [TS]

01:42:26   expensive for you get that being said so [TS]

01:42:28   is the audi however think it's really [TS]

01:42:31   worth trying but let's let's go build [TS]

01:42:33   one as well we can keep talking about [TS]

01:42:35   let's build an ally i started down that [TS]

01:42:36   path and I guess I just wasn't there is [TS]

01:42:38   currently no s4 is it is like between [TS]

01:42:41   update update generations like just a [TS]

01:42:43   day for I think that's correct [TS]

01:42:45   what color would i get me turn off locks [TS]

01:42:47   wine myself I I don't know what color [TS]

01:42:50   you would get me i'll be a primary [TS]

01:42:52   teacher III don't know how to even [TS]

01:42:54   consider picking a color for you you've [TS]

01:42:56   got to get with the program it's it's [TS]

01:42:58   the year of the red car so you gotta do [TS]

01:43:00   what you gotta do right now is it ok we [TS]

01:43:02   can go read I tomorrow right car I got a [TS]

01:43:04   red car [TS]

01:43:05   come on i'm not sure how this looks in [TS]

01:43:07   red it looks ok but I and I wonder if I [TS]

01:43:09   see what else [TS]

01:43:10   howdy howdy historically makes a very [TS]

01:43:11   good premium black that is a nice black [TS]

01:43:14   actually I can't do a black car stop [TS]

01:43:16   stop I can't do what I mean look at him [TS]

01:43:18   like four different shades of white this [TS]

01:43:19   literally they have let's see there's [TS]

01:43:22   there's glacier white metallic there's [TS]

01:43:24   Florence silver which is so light it's [TS]

01:43:25   basically matt is basically white bears [TS]

01:43:27   QB silver which is kind of champagne but [TS]

01:43:31   almost white [TS]

01:43:31   there's ibis white which is another [TS]

01:43:33   white and there's monsoon gray which is [TS]

01:43:35   a pretty like Ray almost white [TS]

01:43:37   so this is this maybe this actually is [TS]

01:43:38   your brand maybe maybe all these years [TS]

01:43:40   talking about BMW that we have been [TS]

01:43:42   wrong all this time and you actually [TS]

01:43:44   wanted a brand that has five different [TS]

01:43:45   shades of white on every every new car [TS]

01:43:47   to choose from the 19-inch wheels [TS]

01:43:50   because i'm an idiot i gottayou gotta [TS]

01:43:52   pick the sport plus package go with 18 [TS]

01:43:54   is the 19 that I 890 don't look that [TS]

01:43:56   much better than 18 that they ride with [TS]

01:43:58   veteran 18 you're such an old man [TS]

01:44:00   no seriously right well you was one inch [TS]

01:44:03   difference you're not going to build the [TS]

01:44:04   eyeball it's not like you just have to [TS]

01:44:06   deal with the fact that your wheels are [TS]

01:44:07   smaller than [TS]

01:44:08   it'll be fine no listen this pussy and [TS]

01:44:12   here's the thing that I like [TS]

01:44:12   performance-wise you're roughly in like [TS]

01:44:15   the 328 category of performance here but [TS]

01:44:18   you're spending like 45 thousand dollars [TS]

01:44:20   at least 47 875 that's the thing like it [TS]

01:44:23   price-wise it's not eight I think it's [TS]

01:44:25   pretty much the same as BMW like once [TS]

01:44:27   you option it up the way you want it [TS]

01:44:28   you're like they're both very expensive [TS]

01:44:32   for what you're getting that doesn't [TS]

01:44:33   mean you shouldn't do it as you know I i [TS]

01:44:35   often argue on the other side of this [TS]

01:44:36   but but i'm just pointing out that like [TS]

01:44:39   this is not a great value compared to [TS]

01:44:40   mw2 it's gonna be about the same like in [TS]

01:44:42   the same ballpark doesn't get of course [TS]

01:44:44   it doesn't mention 0-60 time I would it [TS]

01:44:46   I could swear I 17 seconds in the temple [TS]

01:44:48   days i was gonna say okay I thought it [TS]

01:44:50   was around five and a half [TS]

01:44:51   I mean like that's good but like is that [TS]

01:44:53   is that like 50000 dollars in 2017 good [TS]

01:44:56   mmm yeah see now i'm coming back to the [TS]

01:44:58   Gulf are let's say where is that that [TS]

01:45:03   you're too old for this car [TS]

01:45:04   no not golf r yeah you're too old for [TS]

01:45:06   this no bread love their friend brad has [TS]

01:45:09   one in it it's like he's not too old for [TS]

01:45:11   people were all the same age but he [TS]

01:45:13   pulls it off of that we wouldn't pull it [TS]

01:45:14   off [TS]

01:45:15   you make a good point actually it is [TS]

01:45:18   also a lot cooler than us that he was in [TS]

01:45:20   California like it he can pull that off [TS]

01:45:23   we can't let you know you if you want to [TS]

01:45:26   go to door speaking of German you're [TS]

01:45:28   kidding about you know the accord coupe [TS]

01:45:29   20 16 5.6 seconds i do not want to go to [TS]

01:45:33   door wasn't his fault i can state not [TS]

01:45:35   working for you or my paramus volkswagen [TS]

01:45:37   doesn't work try and come out I'll stop [TS]

01:45:40   you [TS]

01:45:40   what about the last item on this list [TS]

01:45:42   which one is that the voice option yep [TS]

01:45:45   yes it's not it's a hundred thousand [TS]

01:45:48   dollars market by 2a fours about to use [TS]

01:45:51   the model s you can get a useful model [TS]

01:45:53   answer 50k that's where things get [TS]

01:45:56   interesting him but inviting mkbhd I [TS]

01:45:58   don't think you want to say when we talk [TS]

01:46:01   about you know maintenance costs i would [TS]

01:46:03   definitely not want to keep model s past [TS]

01:46:06   the like big battery power train [TS]

01:46:08   warranty but i think that's a hundred [TS]

01:46:09   thousand miles so if you if you get one [TS]

01:46:12   that's like right off least like you [TS]

01:46:13   know thirty 30 ish k miles then it would [TS]

01:46:18   probably need almost no work for the [TS]

01:46:21   next [TS]

01:46:22   five years until you really wanted to [TS]

01:46:24   you know until then I'll start getting [TS]

01:46:26   really high and then you would probably [TS]

01:46:27   be a trade-in for something else at that [TS]

01:46:29   point but because like you know that [TS]

01:46:32   there are used model s there aren't a [TS]

01:46:34   lot of them because three years ago they [TS]

01:46:36   weren't selling that many so we know [TS]

01:46:38   that there are many of them to choose [TS]

01:46:40   from but they do come in they are [TS]

01:46:41   usually like you have to call the dealer [TS]

01:46:44   sometimes like they're not using baby is [TS]

01:46:45   okay there you go with that I put in the [TS]

01:46:47   chat but the problem is there's no 90 DS [TS]

01:46:51   which is what you an underscore have and [TS]

01:46:53   I think would be a perfectly reasonable [TS]

01:46:54   well the nineties only existed for like [TS]

01:46:57   a year and a half [TS]

01:46:58   ok well there you go so you won't be [TS]

01:46:59   looking at maybe it would be the 85 [TS]

01:47:01   d but it but all the DS all the dual [TS]

01:47:04   model the dual motor ones have only just [TS]

01:47:05   for I think about two years or so so the [TS]

01:47:09   problem is i would want the dual motor [TS]

01:47:10   for the acceleration not because I [TS]

01:47:12   necessarily need to drive it is better i [TS]

01:47:14   mean just in general too much but the [TS]

01:47:15   new motor was a substantial improvement [TS]

01:47:17   to the car so you do know that he 85 d [TS]

01:47:20   the cheapest one they have is 80 grand [TS]

01:47:23   so i could buy the P model that's the [TS]

01:47:25   one that's new 430,000 on it that's just [TS]

01:47:27   the first entry they have that has dual [TS]

01:47:30   motor is the p85 d 4 80 grand with [TS]

01:47:32   15,000 miles that's kind of awesome [TS]

01:47:35   that's kind of Awesome actually thousand [TS]

01:47:38   dollars so fast that is but that's the [TS]

01:47:41   one that I test drove and I felt like I [TS]

01:47:43   was gonna smack in the face and notices [TS]

01:47:44   too fast you can just stand there was a [TS]

01:47:47   p85 you're talking about [TS]

01:47:48   I could almost buy in a 4 and a goal far [TS]

01:47:51   for one of these [TS]

01:47:52   yeah well I can't just 25 the cords or [TS]

01:47:55   five and hordes III can't justify it i [TS]

01:47:58   can i buy i'm not saying there's a7 ID [TS]

01:48:00   on here for 67,000 you could drive a [TS]

01:48:02   different corner and every day of the [TS]

01:48:04   week [TS]

01:48:05   haha oh my god that 70 is a hideous [TS]

01:48:12   color though [TS]

01:48:13   yes it isn't that weird like champagne [TS]

01:48:14   it's like it's like you [TS]

01:48:17   you spilled some champagne and into some [TS]

01:48:19   snow slush I've seen more of the little [TS]

01:48:22   mustache Model S's and they really grown [TS]

01:48:24   on me and I like it better than the fish [TS]

01:48:26   mouth what get out of here [TS]

01:48:28   did they look less hideous to me now but [TS]

01:48:30   they still look weird like I I'm sure [TS]

01:48:32   out like by the time it's time for me to [TS]

01:48:33   renew my lease [TS]

01:48:34   I'll be okay with [TS]

01:48:35   but it's still weird right now yes I [TS]

01:48:39   mean it's worse than white obviously [TS]

01:48:40   right but are in lighter colors but its [TS]

01:48:43   turnaround having seen them to now when [TS]

01:48:45   I see one of the old ones i know who i [TS]

01:48:47   mean i never really liked the big ball [TS]

01:48:48   gag but the defense knows depends on it [TS]

01:48:51   looks pretty looks better in real life [TS]

01:48:53   than doesn't photos [TS]

01:48:55   oh man I disagree i've seen it a couple [TS]

01:48:57   times it's not good [TS]

01:48:59   the point is over this is a lot to [TS]

01:49:00   choose from already and because the dual [TS]

01:49:02   model versions have only existed for [TS]

01:49:05   like a year and a half or two years [TS]

01:49:07   there's probably about to be lots of [TS]

01:49:11   them coming in like an inventory over [TS]

01:49:14   the next year is certainly worth [TS]

01:49:17   considering heavily I would I'm not [TS]

01:49:20   gonna necessarily say that you should [TS]

01:49:21   definitely do this but it solves a lot [TS]

01:49:24   of problems it's not a lot of problems [TS]

01:49:27   it is faster than everything else you're [TS]

01:49:28   looking at first of all it is way lower [TS]

01:49:32   maintenance it all in all likelihood [TS]

01:49:34   especially like the newer you go like [TS]

01:49:36   once you into the degeneration they [TS]

01:49:38   ironed a lot of the early problems and [TS]

01:49:40   one anyone you're still covered under [TS]

01:49:41   the warranty you know that solves [TS]

01:49:43   everything right there you pay something [TS]

01:49:44   like I think it's like 500 bucks a year [TS]

01:49:46   for like this giant big inspection they [TS]

01:49:49   do every year but thats it thats that's [TS]

01:49:50   your entire total maintenance costs [TS]

01:49:51   until I need to spend twenty thousand [TS]

01:49:54   dollars to replace all the batteries [TS]

01:49:55   because that whatever 1 i'm [TS]

01:49:57   hypothetically buying has between 15 and [TS]

01:49:59   30 thousand miles on it [TS]

01:50:00   I think it's like 10 years it's it's [TS]

01:50:02   really far into it's basically you don't [TS]

01:50:04   really keep the car that long is the [TS]

01:50:06   answer to that question remember that [TS]

01:50:09   I'm telling you that Aaron's car is nine [TS]

01:50:10   and a half years old almost everything [TS]

01:50:13   you're looking at you're all these pics [TS]

01:50:15   you're not going to keep those pics for [TS]

01:50:17   10 years like not none of them you're [TS]

01:50:20   gonna hear you will you will own none of [TS]

01:50:21   those when they are 10 years old over [TS]

01:50:23   the record obviously one of those when [TS]

01:50:25   there 8 years old how old how old is [TS]

01:50:26   your car now like six or something not [TS]

01:50:28   even that old right it was delivered to [TS]

01:50:32   the original owner in December of 2010 [TS]

01:50:34   if i remember right yeah so it's six [TS]

01:50:36   mhm and it's already so expensive to [TS]

01:50:38   maintain that you're trying to get rid [TS]

01:50:39   of it [TS]

01:50:40   yeah but that's because I didn't buy a [TS]

01:50:41   boring Japanese car that's the problem [TS]

01:50:43   where and so that's my point is you're [TS]

01:50:45   going to have high maintenance costs on [TS]

01:50:47   all the cars in this list any car that [TS]

01:50:49   you're going to [TS]

01:50:49   be happy driving is not going to crush [TS]

01:50:51   your soul and running with a person you [TS]

01:50:52   are going to have high maintenance costs [TS]

01:50:54   if you're if you want to keep it past [TS]

01:50:56   year like you know six or seven [TS]

01:50:58   basically is probably about as far as [TS]

01:50:59   you can go without things getting a [TS]

01:51:01   little too crazy [TS]

01:51:02   you're gonna have to pay a lot for every [TS]

01:51:04   car none of them are like particularly [TS]

01:51:07   good investments or values [TS]

01:51:09   no matter how you own a car you're gonna [TS]

01:51:11   pay a lot because you want a fast car [TS]

01:51:15   you're gonna pay more simple as that no [TS]

01:51:18   matter how you slice it matter how you [TS]

01:51:19   arrange it matter whether you buy new or [TS]

01:51:21   used or lease whether you get bitten by [TS]

01:51:24   like bad maintenance lucky with this one [TS]

01:51:26   or whether you don't [TS]

01:51:27   no matter what there is no way to [TS]

01:51:30   constitute continuously drive fast cars [TS]

01:51:33   without spending a ton of money on them [TS]

01:51:37   this is this is a place you have chosen [TS]

01:51:39   to spend your money you are an adult you [TS]

01:51:42   are a good person you make a decent [TS]

01:51:44   living but you can do that it's totally [TS]

01:51:47   fine you don't indulge yourself in very [TS]

01:51:49   many other things [TS]

01:51:50   this is what you do it's okay this is [TS]

01:51:53   the sign of the devil that Marco [TS]

01:51:54   shoulder i do right [TS]

01:51:56   you are the boy and we're not even with [TS]

01:51:58   the shoulder doesn't have an angel on [TS]

01:51:59   except yeah a little saying that some [TS]

01:52:01   are constantly yeah you know but [TS]

01:52:03   seriously like influence in the world [TS]

01:52:04   like this is this matters a lot to you [TS]

01:52:08   you get a lot of joy out of this you you [TS]

01:52:10   take a lot of your life happiness from [TS]

01:52:12   driving a nice fast car which actually [TS]

01:52:16   maybe makes me wonder if my priorities [TS]

01:52:18   are screwed up but i understand all say [TS]

01:52:20   look everyone has something like this [TS]

01:52:21   you know I'd be happy the years is [TS]

01:52:23   something relatively harmless like this [TS]

01:52:25   and not like drugs or you know I get [TS]

01:52:26   like a lot of people devices are way [TS]

01:52:29   worse than drugs drugs or mac pros on [TS]

01:52:35   the plus side i don't i don't like [TS]

01:52:36   expensive watches yet [TS]

01:52:38   yeah we don't exactly at that anywhere [TS]

01:52:40   says they could be so much worse than [TS]

01:52:41   just like Marco exactly like it could be [TS]

01:52:44   way worse [TS]

01:52:45   so what I'm saying is really as he pens [TS]

01:52:47   for crying out loud [TS]

01:52:49   so basically like what I'm saying is [TS]

01:52:51   don't don't feel guilty that you like [TS]

01:52:55   nice fast cars and don't try to talk [TS]

01:52:57   yourself down from what you really want [TS]

01:52:59   is a car it's a long-term it [TS]

01:53:02   interment choice you have to make this [TS]

01:53:04   decision you have to be driving whatever [TS]

01:53:06   you pick that's gonna be your car for [TS]

01:53:07   the next at least few years and so it [TS]

01:53:10   matters a lot [TS]

01:53:11   you shouldn't talk yourself down out of [TS]

01:53:14   like you know Casey self-doubt like let [TS]

01:53:19   your friends encourage you at least this [TS]

01:53:21   one don't listen to that one talking [TS]

01:53:22   about something for in Japanese listen [TS]

01:53:24   to this friend you're just driving a [TS]

01:53:26   four [TS]

01:53:27   that's what i told them i think that's [TS]

01:53:28   fair i think test driving a four is [TS]

01:53:30   reasonable i think if I were a betting [TS]

01:53:31   man I'd probably get the Golf R because [TS]

01:53:34   it's the it's the least amount of [TS]

01:53:35   compromise all-in-all basically the only [TS]

01:53:38   thing I'm compromising on is I don't [TS]

01:53:40   really want to hatch back although there [TS]

01:53:42   is some convenience that comes from [TS]

01:53:43   that's a big thing but interior always [TS]

01:53:47   gonna be worse than the a4 by a lot i [TS]

01:53:49   don't think it'll be a lot now i have [TS]

01:53:51   not sat in a mini golf in a long time [TS]

01:53:53   but people that are friends of mine that [TS]

01:53:56   that are also card nuts swear by [TS]

01:54:00   Volkswagen interiors and by proxy audi [TS]

01:54:02   as well I happen to like BMW interiors i [TS]

01:54:05   happen to like the way BMW think because [TS]

01:54:08   i think the same way and i'm trying to [TS]

01:54:11   think that I'm trying to figure out what [TS]

01:54:12   it like a specific thing I can cite I [TS]

01:54:15   don't have any off the top of my head [TS]

01:54:16   but I Drive has always made sense to me [TS]

01:54:19   and stuff like that but but everything [TS]

01:54:22   I've understood is that Volkswagen gets [TS]

01:54:24   interiors right that you can debate the [TS]

01:54:25   exterior is you can debate a lot of [TS]

01:54:27   things that you can debate whether or [TS]

01:54:28   not they make diesels that get more than [TS]

01:54:31   four miles a gallon but they they do [TS]

01:54:34   they do interiors right from what I'm [TS]

01:54:35   told and I mean it i think the plan is [TS]

01:54:37   if I'm really serious about this which i [TS]

01:54:39   think i am the plan is first to get in a [TS]

01:54:42   car because she's cheating needs one [TS]

01:54:44   worse and she's next in line but after [TS]

01:54:47   that test drive a golf are test driving [TS]

01:54:49   a four that's probably the entire may I [TS]

01:54:51   probably test-drive focus st just to see [TS]

01:54:54   but it's probably one of these so may I [TS]

01:54:58   suggest an alternative [TS]

01:54:59   mhm so you are you are prepared to spend [TS]

01:55:03   probably fifty thousand dollars on a [TS]

01:55:06   nice day for potentially as potentially [TS]

01:55:10   ok the a4 is pretty much what you have [TS]

01:55:14   now it's moving you to the the newest [TS]

01:55:18   version of what you're already driving [TS]

01:55:19   with a different shape logo on the front [TS]

01:55:21   it is it is not an upgraded is not [TS]

01:55:24   probably a downgrade in any meaningful [TS]

01:55:26   way slightly it's gonna be a little bit [TS]

01:55:28   slower if that's where I end up ok so [TS]

01:55:29   we're actually getting slower okay right [TS]

01:55:31   okay you're losing a couple cylinders [TS]

01:55:32   etc okay that's about 50 thousand [TS]

01:55:36   dollars to do that for 55 you could have [TS]

01:55:40   a brand-new fully loaded em to stop stop [TS]

01:55:45   with that noise problems the waiting [TS]

01:55:46   list for them to is the way this for him [TS]

01:55:48   to is like two years [TS]

01:55:49   my car will be exploded by then they get [TS]

01:55:51   the m235i close enough look at bmw's are [TS]

01:55:54   really nice cars when you don't pay to [TS]

01:55:56   maintain them [TS]

01:55:57   well that's true but i'm doing is [TS]

01:55:59   punting my problem down the road and [TS]

01:56:01   kicking ESO look I mean I i know you as [TS]

01:56:05   much as I want you to drive a Tesla I [TS]

01:56:08   know that your left foot would fall off [TS]

01:56:10   and you'd be upset as much as I want you [TS]

01:56:14   to have something nice and fast that is [TS]

01:56:17   a little the that's fast in other ways [TS]

01:56:19   like you know your little like you know [TS]

01:56:21   GTI and our and focus options [TS]

01:56:24   I can't let you do that I just can't let [TS]

01:56:26   you drive hatchback you too old for that [TS]

01:56:27   it that's your dump that you realize all [TS]

01:56:31   of Europe at any age grades denver [TS]

01:56:33   hatchback Europe is different [TS]

01:56:35   California's different we live here on [TS]

01:56:36   the East Coast and we are boring geeks [TS]

01:56:38   in our thirties you can't have a [TS]

01:56:39   hatchback I can drive you have a kid for [TS]

01:56:41   Christ's sake you get not so that's out [TS]

01:56:44   the a4 is is a great car i'm sure it [TS]

01:56:50   doesn't does it does not have a [TS]

01:56:51   six-cylinder option anymore is that not [TS]

01:56:54   a thing does not [TS]

01:56:55   ok maybe when the s4 comes back [TS]

01:56:56   presumably probably less but that's that [TS]

01:56:58   that would then be more money than this [TS]

01:56:59   about what you really want in it deep [TS]

01:57:04   down in your heart what you really want [TS]

01:57:05   is a 6-speed rear wheel drive BMW and [TS]

01:57:12   it's it's all I want until the moment [TS]

01:57:14   that that the warranty runs out and then [TS]

01:57:17   I need to get something different again [TS]

01:57:18   if only there was a way to have a car [TS]

01:57:21   where you always under warranty that God [TS]

01:57:24   the white m2 is hideous get eaten a blue [TS]

01:57:27   one right [TS]

01:57:28   that you absolutely what I when I first [TS]

01:57:30   yours out here just now I I picked the [TS]

01:57:33   blue one for you because I also [TS]

01:57:34   surprisingly i also think the widest [TS]

01:57:36   hideous and I think black is a little [TS]

01:57:38   bit boring for that car [TS]

01:57:39   so yeah I think I think blue is the only [TS]

01:57:42   option for that car [TS]

01:57:43   you also do the m240 I which is very [TS]

01:57:46   good in itself [TS]

01:57:47   I've driven the m235i friend at work has [TS]

01:57:50   one and it was thin nominal variable [TS]

01:57:53   drive m235i m240 I is only 46 it's like [TS]

01:57:58   10,000 less that is interesting [TS]

01:58:00   that's actually pretty good compromise [TS]

01:58:02   if I don't mind never being able to put [TS]

01:58:04   Declan in the car [TS]

01:58:05   I mean you could it is a sure it would [TS]

01:58:07   suck [TS]

01:58:08   you could but you wouldn't want this if [TS]

01:58:10   you were going to do that a lot but it [TS]

01:58:13   really what you would be happiest with [TS]

01:58:15   it's probably something like this it's [TS]

01:58:18   probably not settling for a volkswagen [TS]

01:58:21   group made hatchback and the a4 would be [TS]

01:58:24   fine except it's pretty much a sideways [TS]

01:58:27   step it's you you're getting what you [TS]

01:58:29   already had and actually slightly slower [TS]

01:58:32   because you're losing couple cylinders [TS]

01:58:33   BMW makes good cars that you like a lot [TS]

01:58:35   they just suck to maintain you know this [TS]

01:58:39   thing is the thing that pisses me off so [TS]

01:58:40   I just price my m2 and I came up 55-200 [TS]

01:58:43   you but the thing that really pisses me [TS]

01:58:45   off about in the summary page says [TS]

01:58:46   you're on to coop and there's you know a [TS]

01:58:48   panoramic view that you can smaller [TS]

01:58:50   quasi panoramic view of the car and man [TS]

01:58:53   does it look good but right under that [TS]

01:58:54   estimated least a hundred twenty-nine [TS]

01:58:56   dollars on a star p is Bill 2520 to the [TS]

01:58:58   next item on the list their 64.1 second [TS]

01:59:02   it's like you get me BMW you guys get me [TS]

01:59:06   can't I can't do another BMW I'm so [TS]

01:59:09   angry about it right now it's can come [TS]

01:59:12   over it [TS]

01:59:12   wait cool off run some numbers and [TS]

01:59:15   consider all your options really late [TS]

01:59:17   don't don't rule anything out unless it [TS]

01:59:20   wouldn't make you happy to drive then [TS]

01:59:22   ruled out so goodbye a chord [TS]

01:59:24   goodbye mom sorry truth i'm not sure the [TS]

01:59:28   a4 would make me terribly happy but it's [TS]

01:59:29   worth a shot right [TS]

01:59:30   exactly you're actually getting slower [TS]

01:59:32   than your current car like this one [TS]

01:59:34   saying like when when you during the [TS]

01:59:37   good days of what when you've been [TS]

01:59:39   owning your wonderful white BMW [TS]

01:59:42   during these good days were you ever [TS]

01:59:44   thinking that your next car would be [TS]

01:59:45   slower I'm certainly not right [TS]

01:59:48   exactly you're thinking man this is a [TS]

01:59:50   great car and my next is going to be [TS]

01:59:52   even faster you're thinking of getting [TS]

01:59:53   them three next and i totally agree with [TS]

01:59:55   you that the current m3 is ridiculously [TS]

01:59:58   expensive and is priced [TS]

01:59:58   expensive and is priced [TS]

02:00:00   probably not the right move but and also [TS]

02:00:02   it sounds just disgusting [TS]

02:00:04   it's what I I've that there's now [TS]

02:00:06   finally enough of them in the world i'm [TS]

02:00:08   starting to like see and hear more of [TS]

02:00:09   them in real life my goodness is that a [TS]

02:00:12   hideous sounding car but the m2 isn't [TS]

02:00:14   the m2 sounds nice and is kind of like [TS]

02:00:17   what the m3 should be but isn't the [TS]

02:00:20   attempt [TS]

02:00:20   it's a good offer I really think that [TS]

02:00:24   you should consider it and if not the m2 [TS]

02:00:26   then the m240 which is very it's also [TS]

02:00:29   very good i'm not gonna do that I'm not [TS]

02:00:31   gonna get a coupe it's not gonna happen [TS]

02:00:33   I mean it's kind of like a sedan just [TS]

02:00:35   with the doors removed but like it's [TS]

02:00:38   like you're writing a sedan height you [TS]

02:00:39   know like on the floor you are looking [TS]

02:00:41   on in like an s2000 looking like you're [TS]

02:00:43   writing a sedan height your roughly [TS]

02:00:44   sedan shaped you have similar like sedan [TS]

02:00:47   weight distributions or say screw and [TS]

02:00:50   get an m3 and and just be done with it [TS]

02:00:51   and just never driving near my house [TS]

02:00:53   want to hear it [TS]

02:00:55   well I there's no way again three no [TS]

02:00:58   freaking way [TS]

02:00:59   not a chance i I'd i'm pretty much [TS]

02:01:01   telling myself I will not buy another [TS]

02:01:02   BMW at if ever at least next I'm just [TS]

02:01:05   not going to do it and you can often you [TS]

02:01:08   can get a worst car for you that's fine [TS]

02:01:10   but until what is this about a gold bar [TS]

02:01:12   what is worse this the size the [TS]

02:01:16   refinement the Interior and the only [TS]

02:01:19   thing that's worse about the the big [TS]

02:01:21   office the four people who hate [TS]

02:01:23   hatchbacks but which island is he [TS]

02:01:25   doesn't and that'll just come but I [TS]

02:01:27   don't let it happen X and so by that [TS]

02:01:29   eliminates my main objection to that the [TS]

02:01:31   Gulf is it is at back every other aspect [TS]

02:01:33   of it sounds like a case you would have [TS]

02:01:35   fun with it and he's somehow not [TS]

02:01:37   bothered by driving around the rabbit so [TS]

02:01:39   that's fine [TS]

02:01:40   Casey look you need to forgive yourself [TS]

02:01:43   later so get something nice [TS]

02:01:46   we need to forgive him for getting a [TS]

02:01:48   hatchback so we need to do here is to [TS]

02:01:50   forgive himself for getting a hatchback [TS]

02:01:51   40,000 472 dollars for a brand-new go [TS]

02:01:54   far [TS]

02:01:55   you could also although if you do get [TS]

02:01:57   that will have to have like a seminar on [TS]

02:01:58   how to pronounce the name of the car [TS]

02:02:00   what are you a gulf person would be [TS]

02:02:02   going out he keeps saying likely of [TS]

02:02:04   Mexico blank of Mexico that's what he [TS]

02:02:06   keeps saying that's not the name of the [TS]

02:02:07   car to know [TS]