The Accidental Tech Podcast

209: Making Sausage-Making Glamorous

 

  I just feeling out to see whether you're [TS]

  making a legit mistake or troll in and [TS]

  use trollin I patrolling use myriapods [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  I thought I am NOT tiff uses the more [TS]

  than I do now because did you get one [TS]

  pair or two pair [TS]

  I got one pair which is two airports but [TS]

  yes it how you got three air pods yeah [TS]

  how many how many your holes can you [TS]

  fill with the air pods that are in the [TS]

  house too [TS]

  okay that's what I thought okay so you [TS]

  have a single-payer like you said yes [TS]

  and tiff is using the more than you [TS]

  yeah she uses them actually often with [TS]

  the apple TV like when I'm podcasting [TS]

  frequently on gets it isn't as nice [TS]

  using it with other stuff but it does [TS]

  work and there's a couple of the [TS]

  niceties like when you when you when you [TS]

  use the volume up and down on the apple [TS]

  TV remote with airports connected it [TS]

  does the volume to them instead of like [TS]

  your speakers so it doesn't do it the [TS]

  auto pairing thing the way it doesn't [TS]

  iOS devices but once you have it paired [TS]

  it works nicely so how does that was [TS]

  happening i'm not trying to be funny how [TS]

  does that work then do you have to like [TS]

  go into settings in the apple TV & and [TS]

  say connect to the air pods every single [TS]

  time I forget if we do every single time [TS]

  I i think it was the first time I don't [TS]

  usually she just does it [TS]

  I think once they're paired as long as [TS]

  you don't pair them with something else [TS]

  though right [TS]

  that's the issue and and so we've [TS]

  actually I've actually seen a number of [TS]

  times i was doing was trying to testing [TS]

  between like the phone the TV ipad watch [TS]

  a mac like you testing all these [TS]

  different things and I found that it air [TS]

  pods are a little bit frustrating in [TS]

  trying to share between different [TS]

  devices and having a not-quite always do [TS]

  what you want [TS]

  like even though the old way of doing [TS]

  bluetooth for you have to like one pair [TS]

  from 12 fights appeared something else [TS]

  that's also terrible but the way [TS]

  airports do it is not quite flawless but [TS]

  how do they do it [TS]

  that's my question because i have used [TS]

  my ear pods with my phone in my ipad [TS]

  right those are two two devices [TS]

  yeah is something supposed to happen [TS]

  other than me going to settings and [TS]

  tapping bluetooth and tapping air pods [TS]

  because that's what I've been doing my [TS]

  favorite thing is occasionally I'll put [TS]

  in a single airpot [TS]

  and i'll be in like the bedroom and I'm [TS]

  listening to a podcast or something like [TS]

  that and then i'll put in like five or [TS]

  ten minutes later i'll put in another [TS]

  the the other air pod and it will go to [TS]

  connect and for whatever reason it will [TS]

  semi consistently connect the iMac which [TS]

  is in the next room over the office and [TS]

  so I have one Airport connected to my [TS]

  phone and one connected to my my mac and [TS]

  so i'll double tap like the the one [TS]

  connected the iMac which I still haven't [TS]

  changed to do play pause so I'll here [TS]

  Syria of one here and then like whatever [TS]

  podcast was need to out of the other [TS]

  year it's actually quite funny and and I [TS]

  could see how that would be really [TS]

  frustrating to someone who isn't like a [TS]

  developer perhaps or who doesn't think [TS]

  about how difficult it is to implement [TS]

  all this but to me I just find it to be [TS]

  hysterical [TS]

  yeah I still got some weird audio sync [TS]

  problems sometimes but overall they're [TS]

  still there still winning just because I [TS]

  guess my hatred of chords and snags has [TS]

  a mandarin house I i find it very [TS]

  frustrating that I can't change volume [TS]

  and I have all these crazy schemes on [TS]

  how to adjust the volume by like [TS]

  reaching into my pocket and feeling for [TS]

  which side of the phone is face up so I [TS]

  know whether I have to reach the side [TS]

  with the power button never order the [TS]

  volume thing like little slow down like [TS]

  that [TS]

  slow down we are you talking pant pocket [TS]

  of jacket pocket jacket [TS]

  ok then night night than i i i i mean [TS]

  like my winter jacket and you know reach [TS]

  around to change they are like what I do [TS]

  in the kitchen except I don't put the [TS]

  phone in the kitchen the phone is in the [TS]

  dining room [TS]

  so if i want to change the volume i have [TS]

  like take a few steps into our room and [TS]

  on the little sideboard thing the volume [TS]

  up or down but i'm living within [TS]

  apparently you know personal putting I'm [TS]

  people hate when i said is not correct [TS]

  but deal with it you know what I mean [TS]

  that i i'm i'm now using them despite [TS]

  the fact that double tapping my ear is [TS]

  uncomfortable and despite the fact that [TS]

  double tapping works weirdly in [TS]

  consistently some people have suggested [TS]

  the triple tap to try to you know I have [TS]

  a mulligan in there if one of them [TS]

  doesn't register [TS]

  sometimes I blame overcast or indoor / [TS]

  iOS first taking over cast out of memory [TS]

  so that it has to launch again before i [TS]

  can start playing and I question whether [TS]

  it it registered my taps and doesn't [TS]

  have just haven't started playing yet [TS]

  sometimes it's so far out of memory that [TS]

  it starts playing music despite the last [TS]

  thing the fact the last thing I was [TS]

  listening to the podcast very confusing [TS]

  but anyway [TS]

  all that said i'm still using them [TS]

  instead of my wired ones the only place [TS]

  i've used my wire was recently was [TS]

  watching my ipad in case where my ear [TS]

  pods were downstairs and it's like well [TS]

  i got the wired headphones here and I'm [TS]

  not going anywhere i'm just watching [TS]

  something on my iPad on my bed or [TS]

  something [TS]

  I'm like the wireless i'm totally sold [TS]

  on and as I mentioned earlier like I [TS]

  love the idea of the airport is just how [TS]

  incredibly small and pocketable they are [TS]

  they don't fit me comfortably and they [TS]

  don't really work for my life as a [TS]

  result and so that's why I'm not really [TS]

  using my tips and more than i am but [TS]

  that being said all those limitations [TS]

  about what you can and can't easily [TS]

  control from them like volume and play [TS]

  pause being finicky and stuff like that [TS]

  when i switch back to my beloved old [TS]

  sennheiser PX 2 10 BTW when it has its [TS]

  giant you know that this little like you [TS]

  know on a year [TS]

  bluetooth said that I've had for a [TS]

  couple years now that I walk my dog [TS]

  every day with and it just has these big [TS]

  plastic buttons on the right earcup and [TS]

  I can play pause volume up and down [TS]

  seat back seat forward next track [TS]

  previous track all with these five [TS]

  buttons on the right earcup and it is [TS]

  just so convenient and every time I try [TS]

  other headphones for a little while to [TS]

  review them or talk about on the show [TS]

  whatever else [TS]

  whenever I go back to my crappy little [TS]

  sanitizer bluetooth headphones i am so [TS]

  happy with the amount of control and [TS]

  comedian that I have them even though [TS]

  they sound like crap and they're pretty [TS]

  ugly and they are you know still like [TS]

  over the head headphones even if they're [TS]

  compact ones so they don't fit in any [TS]

  pocket really they'll fit jacket pockets [TS]

  but not like a pants pocket and it is [TS]

  just so nice to have those and I it i've [TS]

  tried now I still haven't done a review [TS]

  i keep meaning to maybe do video reviews [TS]

  and I keep putting it off because it [TS]

  turns out videos a lot of work but uh [TS]

  I've tried now many high-end bluetooth [TS]

  headphones including the air pods but [TS]

  also including like all like the the [TS]

  former dollar crazy ones from like piano [TS]

  and BMW and bows all these other I [TS]

  headphone companies and the convenience [TS]

  of my relatively cheap bluetooth [TS]

  headphones just have big plastic buttons [TS]

  on the side cannot be like it is there [TS]

  so convenient for everyday use that's [TS]

  why i use them for podcast like and I [TS]

  would never recommend them for music [TS]

  because they sound like they sound like [TS]

  trash that they just have the worst [TS]

  sound music ever before podcasts totally [TS]

  fine and 80 man it's just so nice having [TS]

  those physical controls right in the eye [TS]

  can operate with gloves on [TS]

  i don't use any voice assistance they [TS]

  work every single time like it's just [TS]

  reliable physical controls and they're [TS]

  not sexy and they're not cool but they [TS]

  work and it's really hard to beat that [TS]

  for me [TS]

  yeah if only there was a device you [TS]

  could like I don't know strapped to your [TS]

  body somehow that would give you all of [TS]

  those physical controls and also let you [TS]

  like get a text message and also let you [TS]

  reply to a text message and also let you [TS]

  get other notifications would not be [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  ok let's go and all i remember I I said [TS]

  that it works every time that your cum [TS]

  buttons work everytime not eighty [TS]

  percent of the time and I can use them [TS]

  with gloves on and yeah speaking of that [TS]

  i keep forgetting to try that was [TS]

  suggested so long ago and still hasn't [TS]

  occurred to me to try to give that a try [TS]

  by really trying to watch using the [TS]

  watch [TS]

  yeah but to as as an example of like [TS]

  having a physical volume control is [TS]

  easier than reaching into my pocket and [TS]

  and finding my phone's volume button and [TS]

  stuff like that [TS]

  truth be told finding the volume button [TS]

  is probably easier but it did this is a [TS]

  solvable problem it's just that you [TS]

  don't want to solve it you don't want it [TS]

  to be solved the way it has been solved [TS]

  sounds like me in cars let's do so was [TS]

  actually a solution i already have it [TS]

  was really cheap a few years ago and it [TS]

  works perfectly every time and and the [TS]

  the newfangled solution is both [TS]

  something like four times the price and [TS]

  worse so know that this actually is a [TS]

  case for the old solution was totally [TS]

  fine and the good thing is like this is [TS]

  this is one of the areas were like you [TS]

  know as you Casey have been an advocate [TS]

  for so long [TS]

  cheap bluetooth headphones are [TS]

  plentiful these days tons of people make [TS]

  cheap bluetooth headphones and they're [TS]

  largely pretty decent they're not good [TS]

  but they're decent and and for their [TS]

  price they're usually fairly reasonable [TS]

  and these headphones were at the time i [TS]

  bought them kind of expensive at [TS]

  something like a hundred dollars are [TS]

  hundred and ten dollars they're not [TS]

  worth more than that if you see them for [TS]

  sainthood two people more than that but [TS]

  there anymore that really these days [TS]

  however that you know these are there [TS]

  doesn't like a five-year-old pair of [TS]

  headphones [TS]

  this is one of the areas where like the [TS]

  higher-end headphones the higher-end [TS]

  wireless headphones are nicer in certain [TS]

  ways they are possibly more portable [TS]

  like air pods they are better sounding [TS]

  like some of the high-end ones from like [TS]

  piano and stuff they are you know better [TS]

  noise cancellation and maybe more [TS]

  comfortable with their larger on your [TS]

  things [TS]

  however for practicality of just like [TS]

  Wireless wearing them while walking or [TS]

  running or around the house doing stuff [TS]

  like John cooking the cheap ones with [TS]

  plastic buttons on them are actually [TS]

  better for almost all purposes for that [TS]

  kind of use than the high-end expensive [TS]

  ones i'm mostly agree with you if you [TS]

  ever need to flip between it devices [TS]

  then the air pods or anything really [TS]

  with the w1 chip start to make a lot [TS]

  more sense but in if you are consistent [TS]

  with one machine for example my $25 [TS]

  bluetooth headphones i bought literally [TS]

  five years ago I believe that are still [TS]

  kicking I just don't use them because my [TS]

  ear pods I only ever use those with my [TS]

  work my work computer and it was great [TS]

  you'll see that's the sound was [TS]

  acceptable and they had buttons on the [TS]

  side if I really needed him although i [TS]

  did you know keyboard right in front of [TS]

  me but anyway yeah there they work just [TS]

  fine and I do agree with you you know I [TS]

  i freaking love my ear pods but [TS]

  nonetheless if you don't feel like [TS]

  spending on sixty dollars on a set of [TS]

  little earbuds you can easily spend [TS]

  between 20 and a hundred and get [TS]

  something that's nearly as good as long [TS]

  as you're not switching between devices [TS]

  frequently as long as you don't mind a [TS]

  giant thing like I would never trade my [TS]

  ear pods I would ever go back to Wired [TS]

  earbuds before I would go to a big thing [TS]

  that goes over my head with a big band [TS]

  and put stupid squishy circles on my [TS]

  ears like I'm [TS]

  humph i want the buds that's what i want [TS]

  and so wired or wireless those are my [TS]

  choices and then a distant third would [TS]

  be okay if I can't have any kind of year [TS]

  but then I guess I'll going over your [TS]

  thing [TS]

  enough all right let's a start the show [TS]

  to send a follow up John wanted to tell [TS]

  me about a phone contracts and other [TS]

  ways that you can make people buy [TS]

  iphones if this is much more interesting [TS]

  thanks know the last week we talked [TS]

  about the different tractors that make [TS]

  people feel like they need to get a new [TS]

  device on a run faster schedule than [TS]

  people apparently and/or supposedly get [TS]

  new ipads and I was bringing up the idea [TS]

  that phones get dropped and break more [TS]

  often than iPads just by their nature so [TS]

  that could be one thing that will make [TS]

  people turn them over a couple people [TS]

  wrote in to bring up the idea of [TS]

  contracts which are less prevalent now [TS]

  than they used to be in the u.s. it used [TS]

  to be that the phone was like oh it's [TS]

  you know $200 this phone on a two-year [TS]

  contract with all blonde it was just a [TS]

  typical money hiding schemes where you [TS]

  know human nature makes you not see the [TS]

  upfront costs and you read don't do the [TS]

  multiplication your head so it seems [TS]

  like a cheaper deal these days it seems [TS]

  to me that someone who does not buy a [TS]

  new phone that often that the shift is [TS]

  more towards you bought a new phone [TS]

  exactly once [TS]

  yeah well now that you know I've i M i [TS]

  suppose the I brought my tracfone so [TS]

  that I that the movies away from [TS]

  contracts and more towards buying them [TS]

  up front unlocked [TS]

  I don't know if that's a just an iphone [TS]

  thing or just my personal experience [TS]

  thing but either way [TS]

  historically that has been a big [TS]

  motivator to get people to buy a new [TS]

  phone every few years because it seems [TS]

  like a good deal because they hide all [TS]

  the costs from you in a way that makes [TS]

  your your silly fallible brain feel like [TS]

  you're not spending the money that you [TS]

  are spending anyone else here for a [TS]

  moment [TS]

  am I supposed to be paying less on my [TS]

  cell phone bill now that I by my phones [TS]

  that right because I'm not know you [TS]

  shouldn't be but that such as well it [TS]

  depends on how bad of a deal you got but [TS]

  the strange thing about the deals now is [TS]

  that they psychologically see more [TS]

  expensive know like mine just is more [TS]

  expensive like like so i have AT&T [TS]

  and I started by my phones outright not [TS]

  taking their subsidies anymore and the [TS]

  plans are also the same prices and I [TS]

  like I'm not I'm just spending more [TS]

  money now [TS]

  no you should be spending you should be [TS]

  spending a little bit less i'm logging [TS]

  into the AT&T right now but what happens [TS]

  is the plans cost the same however they [TS]

  give you a very peculiar Lee peculiar [TS]

  named discount once you're no longer [TS]

  subsidizing a phone and it's gonna take [TS]

  me like three hours to figure out where [TS]

  in my bill this is listed [TS]

  yeah they did that I remember hearing [TS]

  the same thing from my wife who wrangles [TS]

  the the phone contracts that sometimes [TS]

  you have to call them to remind them to [TS]

  give you the better deal once you're off [TS]

  contract and that deal gets discount [TS]

  discount for access which is on the [TS]

  mainline $25 off your total cost but a [TS]

  great because discount for access hole [TS]

  actually it's on both lines it's $25 off [TS]

  because when I think discount for access [TS]

  I think this is offsetting the subsidy [TS]

  cost don't you [TS]

  that's fantastic yeah whatever it is an [TS]

  interesting change that they're getting [TS]

  brave enough to reveal the price in a [TS]

  way that will register with consumers [TS]

  brains in the way that you know is much [TS]

  scarier than the old way of like you [TS]

  know every new iPhones $200 now every [TS]

  new iphone is eight hundred dollars you [TS]

  like whoa later dollars it's it's like [TS]

  you just didn't do the math before send [TS]

  the other factor that people would talk [TS]

  about for getting new phones it's gonna [TS]

  make you get a new phone before you get [TS]

  a new ipad row or even knew you know [TS]

  laptop is battery life which you think [TS]

  would make a difference cool ipad and [TS]

  laptop batteries too but phones [TS]

  batteries are really really small and [TS]

  they're much closer to the ragged edge [TS]

  of acceptable in terms of battery life [TS]

  so when the tiny little battery that [TS]

  probably is subjected to much harsher [TS]

  environmental conditions than your iPad [TS]

  or your laptop in terms of putting in [TS]

  pockets or maybe leaving in cars and [TS]

  stuff like that like I feel like it big [TS]

  in the same way of dropping the phone [TS]

  goes everywhere with you so there's more [TS]

  variability even just being your outside [TS]

  jacket pocket during the winter which [TS]

  I'm guilty of me know when I'm shoveling [TS]

  snow i have my phone in my jacket pocket [TS]

  that can't be good for the battery to [TS]

  deal with those temperatures anyway the [TS]

  phone battery starts to go south [TS]

  it's a bad scene you can deal with a [TS]

  many years old ipad battery because then [TS]

  it drops from 10 hours 25 but because of [TS]

  the way we use iPads that's ok but if [TS]

  your phone drops from making it in till [TS]

  6pm into making it to only 4pm that's a [TS]

  no-go and you're gonna be like oh I need [TS]

  a new phone because my battery sucks so [TS]

  more hardware-based reasons that people [TS]

  want new phone soon as they want two [TS]

  ipads also there's the Apple whatever [TS]

  upgrade program I forget what it's [TS]

  called now but I feel like several like [TS]

  normal people that I know have started [TS]

  doing that was that call it just upgrade [TS]

  iphone upgrade program but anyway I feel [TS]

  like that [TS]

  yes iphone upgrade program and that and [TS]

  there are equivalents with each carrier [TS]

  that are roughly the same money so I [TS]

  feel like that's what's going on is it's [TS]

  your sort of kind of leasing your phone [TS]

  now I mean honestly this this is really [TS]

  a better system [TS]

  I mean this is like most of the rest of [TS]

  the world outside of the US was we're [TS]

  doing systems that were more like this [TS]

  long before we were we're like for you [TS]

  you little just bought the phone [TS]

  outright and then paid like cheaper [TS]

  plans like it does make more sense this [TS]

  way things are a little bit more honest [TS]

  even if even if even though the as usual [TS]

  America has taken a straight normal [TS]

  honor system and has twisted it and [TS]

  sexually that's really confusing and [TS]

  complicated and tries to hide all the [TS]

  actual cause still called capitalism [TS]

  that's called something but uh yeah i [TS]

  mean it i think this is still this is [TS]

  long-term a better system even if it is [TS]

  somewhat confusing in the short term as [TS]

  we have made the transition over the [TS]

  last few years [TS]

  alright John tell me if I take a [TS]

  photograph of you flashing me the peace [TS]

  sign is that a problem [TS]

  this is related to the idea of [TS]

  biometrics and how accessible the [TS]

  features of your body maybe to other [TS]

  people because once they have them and [TS]

  if you use them [TS]

  as a means of security on your devices [TS]

  and you've got a problem because as we [TS]

  establish that show your faces indeed [TS]

  your face and your fingers are your [TS]

  fingers and so I i was about how it is [TS]

  easier to get pictures of someone's face [TS]

  that is the pictures of their [TS]

  fingerprints to articles related to this [TS]

  one from Japan where cultural custom is [TS]

  to flash the peace sign two fingers up [TS]

  in the air in photos and if you do that [TS]

  obviously you're facing two of your [TS]

  fingerprints right at the camera get [TS]

  good enough lighting you get enough [TS]

  megapixels you can lift your prints off [TS]

  of that so there's an article about that [TS]

  happening and being careful about it [TS]

  because you are literally showing them [TS]

  your fingerprints here they are and you [TS]

  know technology is amazing we can lift [TS]

  fingerprints format and the second [TS]

  article was in a more challenging [TS]

  scenario can we pull fingerprints from a [TS]

  photo where someone's not flashing a [TS]

  peace sign but we just happened to catch [TS]

  their finger at the right angle at the [TS]

  right time but they would be video or [TS]

  still photos and the answer is yes you [TS]

  can do that as well if you get the right [TS]

  shot all which is scary and all of which [TS]

  leads to the idea that especially for [TS]

  public figures or people who expect to [TS]

  be photographed or people who have [TS]

  access to things that are highly [TS]

  desirable as opposed to just like your [TS]

  personal email account but if you are [TS]

  someone who is a head of state or [TS]

  something and you're using your [TS]

  fingerprints for something important [TS]

  than people are highly motivated to get [TS]

  them so yeah be careful out there don't [TS]

  show people your fingers or your face I [TS]

  suppose it just never be photographed in [TS]

  any capacity ever [TS]

  yep this episode is brought to you by [TS]

  Squarespace start building your website [TS]

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  running the CMS the hosting and everyone [TS]

  that you just want that to be done for [TS]

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  it's an incredible platform it's [TS]

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  start you try squarespace whenever you [TS]

  make a website next for whatever project [TS]

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  you're out what a half hour to just see [TS]

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  I bet you'll be shocked and I bet you'll [TS]

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  check it out today go to squarespace.com [TS]

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  continuing John can you tell me about [TS]

  chromebooks and chrome OS and how that [TS]

  relates to our max we talked about the [TS]

  arm macromer a idea from slashdot and as [TS]

  a Morlock down Mac type system and a lot [TS]

  of people brought up Chromebooks which [TS]

  we have talked about in the past as an [TS]

  example of a very similar type of thing [TS]

  that has existed for a while [TS]

  it's taking it more of the extreme and [TS]

  not only is the Chromebook obviously [TS]

  like lockdown in the way that this you [TS]

  know fantasize / rumor are Mac was but [TS]

  also it shifts everything network which [TS]

  this rumor did not mentioning anything [TS]

  about the mac being but it all boils [TS]

  down to the piece of hardware being more [TS]

  robust in the face of user indifference [TS]

  and my god how to phrase it like you [TS]

  don't have to know how to you can you [TS]

  can know less about using a personal [TS]

  computer and be successful within the [TS]

  same way that you don't need to know as [TS]

  much about personal computing to be [TS]

  successful with an iPad or an iPhone as [TS]

  opposed to a macbook so Chromebooks [TS]

  there are far fewer places where you can [TS]

  get into trouble software installing [TS]

  software is more straightforward the [TS]

  number of things you can do to it mess [TS]

  it up as much lower the overall system [TS]

  is simpler obviously Chromebook and [TS]

  chrome OS are far cry from the mac [TS]

  operating system with a heavy focus on [TS]

  doing stuff with web technologies [TS]

  through a browser with many things being [TS]

  put into the cloud and i think thats [TS]

  implication in fact is a big advantage [TS]

  Chromebooks have over any of apples [TS]

  devices the aggressively count cloud [TS]

  centric focus that this thing you're [TS]

  holding your hand is nothing everything [TS]

  you do if you have access to the network [TS]

  is saves than at work aggressively so [TS]

  that pretty much at any point when [TS]

  you're working on a Chromebook you can [TS]

  do a five-count and throw the thing out [TS]

  the window into a lake and then go get [TS]

  another Chromebook back room and sign-in [TS]

  and resume where you left off [TS]

  you cannot do that with any Apple device [TS]

  right that's the dream of the Chromebook [TS]

  I've always thought it was a brilliant [TS]

  idea perhaps not very well executed but [TS]

  every time we talk about ipads or max [TS]

  especially as they relate to education [TS]

  people come out of the woodwork to tell [TS]

  us how Chromebooks are kicking apples [TS]

  but in education because what a dream [TS]

  machine [TS]

  you educational institutions do not want [TS]

  to deal with wrangling computers or [TS]

  software anything like that you have a [TS]

  bunch of computers that you're gonna put [TS]

  a bunch of students in front of that's [TS]

  just you know that they're gonna do [TS]

  everything they can to mess things up [TS]

  and even if they don't the computers [TS]

  like eventually we'll mess themselves up [TS]

  especially if there are you know if it's [TS]

  windows and we're in a decade ago I [TS]

  assume it's better now [TS]

  Chromebooks are very results are iPads [TS]

  for that matter but Chromebooks even [TS]

  more so in that they they are resistant [TS]

  to slowly degrading and or being [TS]

  compromised by devious students and [TS]

  there's lots of good tools for managing [TS]

  fleets of these things that were having [TS]

  multiple students signed into them and [TS]

  apples made some strides here with their [TS]

  weird multi-user sign in and out sync [TS]

  everything from iCloud things they've [TS]

  been doing with the ipad lately but [TS]

  Chromebooks almost always been on price [TS]

  you can get cheap crappy ones and you [TS]

  know cash-strapped school of that and [TS]

  they're doing very well in management i [TS]

  always wonder if Apple cares that much [TS]

  about that market or did they just like [TS]

  the rest of the many markets that isn't [TS]

  too high into that market they just want [TS]

  to sell ipads to the rich schools and [TS]

  let everyone else have chrome books or [TS]

  something but I worry that the value [TS]

  proposition represented by Chromebooks [TS]

  in the ideal if not in in actuality is [TS]

  not falling on deaf ears at Apple but is [TS]

  not valued by the people inside Apple as [TS]

  much as it should be because talk about [TS]

  future of computing many of the aspects [TS]

  promised by Chromebooks and many of them [TS]

  delivered by Chromebooks definitely feel [TS]

  more like the future of computing in [TS]

  terms of having to worry less about [TS]

  managing the Machine and having to worry [TS]

  less about the machine itself because in [TS]

  in a network connected world [TS]

  yes you can work offline but it would be [TS]

  great if the source of truth with some [TS]

  place fast and reliable that is not [TS]

  sitting in front of you [TS]

  well this is part of what last last week [TS]

  we were talking about that that rumored [TS]

  slashdot comment lockdown [TS]

  next-generation our mac [TS]

  even though again disclaim already that [TS]

  was very unlikely to be true [TS]

  however one thing I forgot to mention [TS]

  during my rant about how good that might [TS]

  be is that that might address the [TS]

  Chromebook market pretty well to like [TS]

  that wouldn't have to be a high-end [TS]

  hardware device that could run on ipad [TS]

  class hardware and be passable and so [TS]

  they they could if Apple wanted to [TS]

  address this market which you as you [TS]

  pointed out they might not want to [TS]

  although i think it's aight i'm with you [TS]

  i think they they should address it if [TS]

  they reasonably can which is not save [TS]

  definitely yes or no but I think if they [TS]

  if they reasonably can address that i [TS]

  think they should because having mass [TS]

  numbers of students growing up using all [TS]

  google services on all google computers [TS]

  is probably not good for Apple long-term [TS]

  but that being said if Apple could take [TS]

  that kind of next-gen mac on arm concept [TS]

  and make a very low and hardware device [TS]

  that was basically like you know mid [TS]

  generation ipad level hardware like [TS]

  suppose that is two years away they [TS]

  could take two days like ipad air 2 [TS]

  hardware sell it in two years in this [TS]

  little like you know macbook one size [TS]

  case for 400 bucks maybe I mean like it [TS]

  that could actually get them get them a [TS]

  lot of the way there and that and that [TS]

  and that OS is additional lockdown miss [TS]

  and easy management an easy secured and [TS]

  everything would all help in that regard [TS]

  to so i think that one that one of the [TS]

  things that that made me consider that [TS]

  that comment as possibly interesting and [TS]

  possibly plausible is that Apple has to [TS]

  be feeling there they have to be feeling [TS]

  like to hurt a little bit from the [TS]

  massive success of Chromebooks and [TS]

  schools they have to be feeling that on [TS]

  some level whether they choose your [TS]

  dress yet is another question but I [TS]

  think if they're going to address it [TS]

  that hypothetical lockdown are Mac would [TS]

  be a really nice way to address it [TS]

  because obviously they can try pushing [TS]

  iPads they have as much as they want and [TS]

  they have gotten decent numbers of ipads [TS]

  sold into schools but there's a reason [TS]

  why those Chromebooks keep selling so [TS]

  well and and a big reason is price no [TS]

  question and it's you know again it's [TS]

  question whether Apple is is willing to [TS]

  or should compete [TS]

  on price to that level but also a big a [TS]

  big reason for that is that a lot of [TS]

  schools and students do prefer working [TS]

  on some kind of laptop shaped device [TS]

  with a laptop keyboard instead like it [TS]

  yes you can put keyboards and iPads but [TS]

  we all know from trying that like that's [TS]

  not really what they're great at that's [TS]

  not really but they're designed for and [TS]

  if you're trying to manage a fleet of [TS]

  student devices the last thing you want [TS]

  is detachable expensive accessories you [TS]

  know you wanted to be one integrated [TS]

  unit you can manage the one in the [TS]

  ground unit so that actually might be [TS]

  part of their strategy to combat [TS]

  Chromebooks long-term and if it isn't I [TS]

  think it might be worth considering [TS]

  whether it should so this is yet another [TS]

  time we have to bring up that one of the [TS]

  big advantages google has in terms of [TS]

  management is the fact they do do [TS]

  everything server side and that is [TS]

  google strength and historically has not [TS]

  been Apple strength to have a very [TS]

  robust cloud services with the source of [TS]

  truth is in the cloud not on the device [TS]

  in the same way you know it doesn't [TS]

  necessarily have to be web-based tools [TS]

  like Google Docs up which by the way is [TS]

  an extensive use in schools i'm using it [TS]

  work now too and we mentioned before we [TS]

  use it for our show notes it's it's the [TS]

  point where like I'm waiting for it to [TS]

  unseat microsoft word the entire [TS]

  corporate world i know that's going to [TS]

  take so freaking long but o among [TS]

  certain wings of large corporations it [TS]

  is possible to do this place word and [TS]

  everybody is happier and seeing my kids [TS]

  do everything google access like Marco [TS]

  Verratti view if you grew up doing that [TS]

  you just like a word-processing equals [TS]

  google docs and his google docs work you [TS]

  need servers the service needs to be [TS]

  reliable they need to be fast need to be [TS]

  always up things not lose data google is [TS]

  really good at that Apple is not as good [TS]

  at it so that's one weakness Apple [TS]

  hasn't in doing that and the other [TS]

  reason I think Apple should be thinking [TS]

  about this market where Chromebooks are [TS]

  giving them a run for their money with [TS]

  iPads and everything is like it is a [TS]

  demanding environment public schools [TS]

  with a bunch of kids messing with your [TS]

  stuff is demanding physically speaking [TS]

  is demanding from a management [TS]

  perspective because you have a lot of [TS]

  devices you have people managing them [TS]

  who perhaps are not [TS]

  the most technically savvy because [TS]

  that's not their job like teachers have [TS]

  to deal with them and they don't they [TS]

  want to be teachers they don't want to [TS]

  be like IT managers right so the easier [TS]

  it is to manage the better but in like [TS]

  making a device that is successful in [TS]

  that environment like that is very [TS]

  hostile much more hostile than corporate [TS]

  IT much more hostile than an individual [TS]

  user's house who buys the thing and post [TS]

  unboxing video and treats you like a [TS]

  little perfect baby right schools are [TS]

  brutal but in the same way that cock so [TS]

  good grips company that I believe I [TS]

  don't know it was founded on this or was [TS]

  this originally but the story I've [TS]

  always heard and I like it's all keep [TS]

  repeating as if it's true [TS]

  was that they were making tools for [TS]

  people with arthritis and other sort of [TS]

  motor difficulties with their hands if [TS]

  you have trouble operating a regular can [TS]

  opener try the ox 0 can opener because i [TS]

  know i know you can't like it hurts to [TS]

  turn a regular can opener but here we [TS]

  have one that has very grippy material [TS]

  and a big rounded attorney thing with [TS]

  lots of leverage and so you know and it [TS]

  turns out good old turns out everyone [TS]

  loves it [TS]

  if you make two lists that are easy that [TS]

  are easy for people to use who have hand [TS]

  mobility of strength problems people who [TS]

  do not have hand or mobility of strength [TS]

  problems also love them because they're [TS]

  just better tools they give you better [TS]

  mechanical advantage they work more [TS]

  smoothly so if you make something for an [TS]

  environment that is demanding in some [TS]

  way [TS]

  o our customers only have this amount of [TS]

  hand strengthen the average adult has [TS]

  five times that can you make an open to [TS]

  the works and if you successfully do [TS]

  that you haven't made all this is only a [TS]

  nice device for people who have mobility [TS]

  problems with their hands know what [TS]

  you've made is an amazing can opener so [TS]

  if you make a laptop that can survive [TS]

  and continue functioning and be [TS]

  manageable by teachers and students in a [TS]

  public school environment you just [TS]

  happen to have also made an awesome [TS]

  laptop that you can put into the guys [TS]

  house who's going to you know treat it [TS]

  like a perfect little baby and always [TS]

  liked do everything nice within read [TS]

  articles about and all that stuff [TS]

  they'll love it too because guess what [TS]

  it's just easier to manage it works more [TS]

  often there are fewer problems that is [TS]

  just a better product all around so I [TS]

  would never want to see Apple surrender [TS]

  this market if all [TS]

  because it acts as a crucible for [TS]

  testing the the the durability of every [TS]

  part of your product from the harbor to [TS]

  the software to the management the whole [TS]

  nine yards [TS]

  let's talk about a hour elling who [TS]

  writes i bought my first mac pro for [TS]

  work last year since my job is what [TS]

  development and thus I target that the [TS]

  the target is obviously linux I chose to [TS]

  go case sensitive to avoid trouble as [TS]

  much as possible [TS]

  I've been burned by windows k Sigma and [TS]

  file system in the past [TS]

  given how long OS 10 hfs+ being have [TS]

  been around i expected that most modern [TS]

  software would run on either set up but [TS]

  now have learned that both steam and [TS]

  adobe creative suite will not run on my [TS]

  machine unless every 4matic loops i [TS]

  would love to hear your opinion on the [TS]

  state of this and who you think is to [TS]

  blame for this mess [TS]

  John as our file system expert humans [TS]

  are to blame as always [TS]

  so yeah the case sensitive vs instance [TS]

  of HFS plus + hrs before it and MF s I [TS]

  believe we're all case-insensitive made [TS]

  you could not have two files whose [TS]

  filenames different only in [TS]

  capitalization and there's a whole bunch [TS]

  of unicode normalization rules revolving [TS]

  around that let's just talk about ascii [TS]

  capital lowercase letters you had a file [TS]

  name my file all caps you could not have [TS]

  a file right next to it in the same [TS]

  directory called my file all lowercase [TS]

  cause guess what hfs+ does not [TS]

  distinguish between those which is [TS]

  mostly human factors choice on the [TS]

  original mac because regular people [TS]

  don't consider those different things [TS]

  like find me the file name Jerry no not [TS]

  the one with the lowercase J the moment [TS]

  the capital j being able to not having [TS]

  files a different in case because people [TS]

  will type the wrong file names into [TS]

  think they didn't save and stuff like [TS]

  that so it is an important user [TS]

  interface thing but they implanted down [TS]

  at the file system level which means not [TS]

  only does the interface present in that [TS]

  way but you physically can't save files [TS]

  to differ on the incase now why would [TS]

  anybody want files differently it [TS]

  sometimes case it contains information [TS]

  if you have acronyms or abbreviations or [TS]

  other type of things in your file names [TS]

  and they happen to spot words like a ND [TS]

  or something and [TS]

  happen to have another file name that [TS]

  has the lower case because they wanted [TS]

  the thing and you know case does have [TS]

  meaning in some cases but the most [TS]

  important reason that case insensitivity [TS]

  the historic multi-decade case in [TS]

  sensitivity on the mac is a potentially [TS]

  problem is if you ever change your mind [TS]

  yoursay actually we've decided for the [TS]

  future that's people don't really deal [TS]

  with the process and how much anyway say [TS]

  on your phones on your iOS devices where [TS]

  people don't see the file system we [TS]

  don't need that extra complexity because [TS]

  it is an extra complexity every time you [TS]

  look up a file you have to see if [TS]

  there's any variation that van on that [TS]

  files case in the same thing for writing [TS]

  a file you have to make sure no files [TS]

  exist with any variation of that finance [TS]

  case and practically speaking lots of [TS]

  software made for other platforms likes [TS]

  a unique software open source software [TS]

  has files that are part of either the [TS]

  source code or the actual operation of [TS]

  the of the the binaries in practice that [TS]

  differently in case and if you can't [TS]

  store them on the file system you can [TS]

  even like intar you know the source of [TS]

  an open-source tool and build it because [TS]

  it's got lowercase C files about capital [TS]

  C files because someone thought capital [TS]

  C was great for c++ you know many [TS]

  decades ago and it will either puke or [TS]

  just randomly overwrite files and you [TS]

  will have things don't build their this [TS]

  plenty of open source software that has [TS]

  plain old source files and food at sea [TS]

  and capital f 00 dot C in the same [TS]

  directory that this happens its thing [TS]

  and if you can't deal with it at all he [TS]

  has to make like disk images or virtual [TS]

  machines are all sorts of stuff like [TS]

  that but the real whammy is for decades [TS]

  and decades the mac has been like this [TS]

  and human beings have been writing [TS]

  software for the mac and those human [TS]

  beings have put file paths in their [TS]

  software they've written code that reads [TS]

  things from the file system based on [TS]

  their path and a surprising amount of [TS]

  time those file paths that the software [TS]

  is trying to read from the file system [TS]

  do not match the case of the files on [TS]

  disk and nobody notices when you run it [TS]

  on a case-insensitive file system [TS]

  because if you were looking for you know [TS]

  you know file dot com for the where the [TS]

  eff is capital but on the on the file [TS]

  system is actually lower case your [TS]

  program works fine because it says open [TS]

  be filed by comp with the capital after [TS]

  this as I here i found it opens lower [TS]

  case file that comes and you're good to [TS]

  go because that's how the api's work you [TS]

  try to run that ok sensitive file system [TS]

  and the wheels fall off the wagon all of [TS]

  a sudden the thing doesn't work can't [TS]

  even start up you know you're using it [TS]

  does weird stuff in it doesn't function [TS]

  correctly and steam which isn't even [TS]

  that long on the mac platform i guess [TS]

  it's been a few years now but adobe [TS]

  creative suite has deep roots lots of [TS]

  complicated software inevitably has some [TS]

  part that either assumes case in [TS]

  sensitivity as like a foundational [TS]

  assumptions of some section of the code [TS]

  or accidentally assumes case in [TS]

  sensitivity by looking up files based on [TS]

  paths that don't match the actual case [TS]

  of the files on disk or you know very [TS]

  more complicated variations of that [TS]

  we're one part of the thing will write a [TS]

  file the other thing will read it but [TS]

  they won't agree on the case and it's [TS]

  just there are so many places where [TS]

  things go wrong and this is where the [TS]

  conventional wisdom goes that if you [TS]

  format your mac as case-sensitive be [TS]

  prepared for a whole bunch of your [TS]

  software not to work and for your only [TS]

  alternative to be to reformat is [TS]

  case-insensitive get stopped working you [TS]

  might say well why doesn't everyone just [TS]

  fix their software [TS]

  well it's a chicken egg thing we need to [TS]

  fix this offer because nobody runs [TS]

  case-sensitive hfs+ on their macs and no [TS]

  one's HFS case-sensitive a transponder [TS]

  max because now the software works and [TS]

  so they're an impasse their iOS devices [TS]

  that make a sensitive from day one which [TS]

  is a wise choice so there's there are [TS]

  not a bunch of iOS developers out there [TS]

  writing applications that expect to read [TS]

  files with past them at the case could [TS]

  guess what they wouldn't work so that's [TS]

  great but with a PFS i'm not even sure [TS]

  what they're gonna end up doing on the [TS]

  mat because the apms is not officially [TS]

  released on the maggots only on iOS but [TS]

  it one way to solve the chicken egg [TS]

  thing and say hey guess what a PFS is [TS]

  case-sensitive only I can't imagine them [TS]

  doing that because as we can see adobe [TS]

  creative suite and steam wouldn't work [TS]

  as an obscure applications so yeah so [TS]

  sorry bad news you probably have to [TS]

  reformat your disk as case insensitive [TS]

  to get your software to work again [TS]

  inscrutable humans got you again [TS]

  it yeah you know by the way is marco was [TS]

  like this marker happening mac apps do [TS]

  that it's like it's a good thing if you [TS]

  write it at an application or any kind [TS]

  of song for the mac to find out do you [TS]

  have these kind of problems in your [TS]

  summer because you'll never know if you [TS]

  just run a regular mac all the time but [TS]

  you'll be surprised they're lurking i [TS]

  probably have them in my stupid blog [TS]

  system that I used to publish my blog [TS]

  once a year because i've only ever run [TS]

  it from a case-insensitive file system [TS]

  is probably in that tiny little piece of [TS]

  code someplace where i do something [TS]

  stupid about case without that's respond [TS]

  to this week by eero go to ero calm and [TS]

  use promo code ATP at checkout to get [TS]

  free expedited shipping Wi-Fi in our [TS]

  houses just isn't good enough when you [TS]

  only have one router which is the model [TS]

  we've been sold on forever no matter how [TS]

  many antennas you put on no matter how [TS]

  high powered it is there's gonna be dead [TS]

  spots and weak spots in most houses or [TS]

  apartments we've all been there we all [TS]

  have like the one room where the Wi-Fi [TS]

  only gets like one little arcade doesn't [TS]

  really work that you hold the ipad [TS]

  upside down [TS]

  I've actually done that and this just is [TS]

  not a very good system for today we have [TS]

  so many Wi-Fi devices that depend on a [TS]

  solid connection in our homes you know [TS]

  it [TS]

  what year is this we should have [TS]

  reliable Wi-Fi in our entire houses an [TS]

  ear let us do that by having multiple [TS]

  access points work together from [TS]

  different points in the house to this [TS]

  blanket your entire place in solid [TS]

  strong fast Wi-Fi coverage the way to do [TS]

  this so they sell the little 0 units [TS]

  that they're kinda size of an apple tv's [TS]

  little nicely designed little things and [TS]

  you plug one of them in the same we plug [TS]

  in any other Wi-Fi router you plug it [TS]

  into your internet connection so you [TS]

  know where that is and then you can plug [TS]

  the other ones in anywhere else in your [TS]

  house and they talk to each other over a [TS]

  separate mesh network they make and then [TS]

  they blanket your home in pure [TS]

  high-speed Wi-Fi from each one and they [TS]

  all work together to form one giant [TS]

  network its way faster than traditional [TS]

  repeaters or anything like that because [TS]

  of the seventh-best network thing check [TS]

  out the reviews you will see for [TS]

  yourself and they sent us some too and [TS]

  we try to map we've had similarly great [TS]

  experiences heroes are fast and they are [TS]

  so easy to set up with their app and [TS]

  they have tons of great features they [TS]

  have things like parental controls and [TS]

  all sorts of new features being added in [TS]

  very very easy-to-use app all the time [TS]

  they've added so many features already [TS]

  been sold out for [TS]

  a year so many had so many features [TS]

  already is very highly rated x rated [TS]

  currently 4.4 stars and Amazon with over [TS]

  750 reviews [TS]

  there's a there's a one-year warranty [TS]

  there's a return period if you don't [TS]

  like it [TS]

  check it out we highly recommend 0 it is [TS]

  so much better than just using one [TS]

  router go to 0 comments the ero calm and [TS]

  use code ATP at checkout to get free [TS]

  expedited shipping [TS]

  thank you very much 20 for sponsoring [TS]

  our show once again [TS]

  ah so John happy birthday to you [TS]

  your birthday was actually what a month [TS]

  and a half ago but the gods have [TS]

  delivered you the ultimate birthday [TS]

  present [TS]

  sort of what's uh what's going on [TS]

  Kickstarter these days John my favorite [TS]

  twitter client has been from the moment [TS]

  i started using twitter twitter epic [TS]

  which I think was the very first twitter [TS]

  client [TS]

  certainly it was the first thing I ever [TS]

  used Twitter with I did not sign up for [TS]

  twitter based on their terrible website [TS]

  I only signed up for it once [TS]

  twitterrific without my car out this [TS]

  this is a good thing to do you know if [TS]

  it wasn't like truly the first app that [TS]

  uses twitter api it was at least the [TS]

  first app that anyone ever used that [TS]

  uses twitter api and it was by far the [TS]

  first app that mattered [TS]

  yeah and so it was an iOS app and there [TS]

  was a but before that there was a mac [TS]

  app i think the backup came first anyway [TS]

  yeah so Twitter clients have had a bumpy [TS]

  road a couple years back Twitter decided [TS]

  that didn't really want third parties to [TS]

  make apps and it started this whole [TS]

  thing where you can only make apps if [TS]

  you have these special tokens and his [TS]

  limited number of those the song [TS]

  absolute grandfathered in and by the way [TS]

  a bunch of new features are rolling out [TS]

  can't be used by third-party clients you [TS]

  really don't like you third-party [TS]

  clients and it's made the market for [TS]

  twitter apps very difficult for [TS]

  third-party towards very difficult [TS]

  Twitter her iOS has continued to be [TS]

  updated nevertheless gone through many [TS]

  major revisions and if you were to go [TS]

  buy it on the app store today which i [TS]

  recommend it is a great trap [TS]

  I've never I've never waver despite also [TS]

  buying many other twitter apps and [TS]

  having them installed either left or if [TS]

  it's because of its unified timeline [TS]

  where it makes everything that has [TS]

  happened on Twitter I related to the [TS]

  people you follow a single list sorted [TS]

  by time mentions tweets direct messages [TS]

  your own tweets that go out just all [TS]

  ordered by time that's it you know you [TS]

  can view them separately if you want but [TS]

  i like it just be one big list that's [TS]

  the unified timeline anyway the mac [TS]

  client on the other hand has not been [TS]

  updated in many many years because it [TS]

  just hasn't been economically feasible [TS]

  to update it because the market for [TS]

  third-party Mac Twitter clients is just [TS]

  not sustainable anymore [TS]

  the market for third-party iOS to the [TS]

  clients basically barely sustainably so [TS]

  many people use the official app and [TS]

  there are still features that you can [TS]

  only do in the official app I hate the [TS]

  official app even though i have [TS]

  installed [TS]

  oh it's the warning i don't understand [TS]

  how anyone uses it [TS]

  it's confusing to people people use [TS]

  their twitter and all sorts of different [TS]

  ways so I happen to know a some of the [TS]

  people who work at icon factory who make [TS]

  twitterrific and for many years I have [TS]

  been begging them half-jokingly to fix [TS]

  whatever the mac which by the way i [TS]

  continue to use despite the fact that it [TS]

  is slowly crumbling like you know when [TS]

  they added the thing where the tweets [TS]

  can be longer than you would have [TS]

  expected and we would like it doesn't [TS]

  count like the mentions that everything [TS]

  towards the URLs are mentions towards [TS]

  the character camp some some change [TS]

  related to the length of of tweets and [TS]

  if you don't support like the new longer [TS]

  tweet thing what you get from the old [TS]

  version of the API is a tweet that is [TS]

  truncated and it goes like it like [TS]

  towards the end of the tweeters goes dot [TS]

  and then has a URL but you can click on [TS]

  to read the whole tweet on Twitter [TS]

  website that's what long tweets look [TS]

  like and twitter for the mac and yet i [TS]

  still continue to use that I can't I [TS]

  can't do so many things from the mac [TS]

  version of the client that I can do from [TS]

  the iOS one but I still continue to use [TS]

  it because i like it and every other mac [TS]

  client that I've tried i dislike [TS]

  strongly in some way so I I really [TS]

  wished for Twitter its comeback comeback [TS]

  but I understood like look you can't you [TS]

  know if it's not a viable arc is not [TS]

  available market even offered to pay up [TS]

  seeing amounts of money [TS]

  for whatever put it back in fact I [TS]

  believe it was only last week or the [TS]

  week before that you said I would pay a [TS]

  hundred dollars for updated version of [TS]

  terrific for the Mac I've said that many [TS]

  times and I may or may not have been [TS]

  saying that because i may or may not [TS]

  have known about this project a plan but [TS]

  anyway now there's a Kickstarter like [TS]

  everything thing that we've joked about [TS]

  for so many years like how much money [TS]

  would it take to fund the number of [TS]

  developers who need to make this [TS]

  application let's just do a Kickstarter [TS]

  and if enough people want Twitter her [TS]

  for the mac they will find this thing [TS]

  and they will make this application like [TS]

  it's it's an easy way to know that yes [TS]

  you will have the money to pay for the [TS]

  development of this project because you [TS]

  get the money upfront ish in exchange [TS]

  for the application so i'm not i have [TS]

  back to this kickstarter I'm not going [TS]

  to tell you how much money i pledge but [TS]

  it was a lot of it they are the goal is [TS]

  75,000 but i want you all to ignore that [TS]

  because the real goal is a hundred [TS]

  thousand to stretch the so-called [TS]

  stretch goal because the stretch goal [TS]

  includes all the features that i want [TS]

  including fairly essential things like [TS]

  direct messaging so I really want this [TS]

  kickstarter to get 200,000 if it doesn't [TS]

  it will just be proving what i can [TS]

  factor has been saying all along is [TS]

  there's just not enough people who want [TS]

  this who are going to pay for it even [TS]

  though some of us are paying very much [TS]

  more than five dollars for the privilege [TS]

  of having this application so you may [TS]

  not like using Twitter on the mac period [TS]

  because many people just don't use it on [TS]

  the mac at all maybe use the website or [TS]

  whatever but if you are using an [TS]

  existing Mac twitter client and don't [TS]

  like it or it seems like it hasn't been [TS]

  updated my electorate herd for the mac [TS]

  or it doesn't work the way you want it [TS]

  to this is an opportunity to get a shiny [TS]

  new twitter client from a company that [TS]

  really knows how to make Twitter clients [TS]

  44 only as much money as you can [TS]

  possibly afford so please PLEASE back [TS]

  this is up to 35 thousand dollars now [TS]

  and has been open [TS]

  it's got 28 days to go and it's 35 [TS]

  thousand dollars out of a goal of not 75 [TS]

  north at go a hundred [TS]

  please everybody make this happen [TS]

  because i want this to the client but if [TS]

  we don't make it happen does that mean [TS]

  we will finally break you of your [TS]

  ridiculous insistence on the unified [TS]

  timeline i know i will never gonna use [TS]

  whatever the magnet until it doesn't [TS]

  launch anymore after that I'm gonna I'm [TS]

  gonna beg my friends and i can factor to [TS]

  give me a special building does blanch [TS]

  em I'm just giving you a hard time no I [TS]

  i know some of the folks from the icon [TS]

  factory we all do actually and they're [TS]

  great people so definitely check out [TS]

  this kickstarter and throw a few dollars [TS]

  if you can because it would make John [TS]

  happy it would make the folks at icon [TS]

  factory happy and they're good people [TS]

  and you could swag have t-shirts they [TS]

  have little you know vinyl Holly dolly [TS]

  is their little blue Twitter bird you [TS]

  should be some history i think i can [TS]

  factor website link to it the history [TS]

  between icon factory and Twitter many of [TS]

  the things that you associate with [TS]

  Twitter were in fact invented by icon [TS]

  factory terminology iconography so much [TS]

  icon factory is like practically part of [TS]

  Twitter only non financial sense because [TS]

  they do not have thousands of employees [TS]

  and billions of dollars of investment [TS]

  didn't Hockenberry come up with tweet [TS]

  sent him knows co-worker that right i [TS]

  think so sorry that you have to get the [TS]

  details when I like oh my you tried like [TS]

  yeah the I believe they were the first [TS]

  ones to actually use a bird as part of [TS]

  the logo that you at the word we [TS]

  they might even invented at replies I [TS]

  don't know it's they did a lot like a [TS]

  lot a lot of of Twitter like standard [TS]

  things and practices and mechanisms and [TS]

  everything were invented by icon factory [TS]

  or by there by like their developers for [TS]

  their apps and Ollie the blue [TS]

  twitterrific bird is along with the with [TS]

  panik's transmit truck one of the most [TS]

  ripped off i constantly entire internet [TS]

  you see everywhere like that's just a [TS]

  generic representation of Twitter that [TS]

  Twitter's logo nope nope not not twitter [TS]

  logo at all in fact or logos worse than [TS]

  I contractors like they should have paid [TS]

  them to make their logos for them but [TS]

  they didn't cool well good luck [TS]

  I don't know if I'm if I should wish you [TS]

  good luck John official wish the icon [TS]

  factory good luck I guess a little boat [TS]

  should do either you should pledge money [TS]

  that's what you should do [TS]

  here's here's why you shall pledge money [TS]

  so a this is great software supported by [TS]

  great people doing great things great be [TS]

  Twitter needs more diversity in software [TS]

  and and twitterrific is one of the very [TS]

  few clients that grandfather in with a [TS]

  very large amount of user tokens and so [TS]

  they actually can make their like one of [TS]

  the only companies that could make a [TS]

  widespread twitter client and see if [TS]

  this kickstarter doesn't fund John gets [TS]

  to keep all his money and so we want [TS]

  John we want John to have spent a [TS]

  ridiculous amount of money on his [TS]

  twitter client i can say is like the [TS]

  second most expensive application of my [TS]

  computer after photoshop exactly what [TS]

  exactly we want John's copy of [TS]

  twitterrific to be the this ridiculous [TS]

  investment he has made and so please [TS]

  everyone go fund this so that his pledge [TS]

  will go through it really is just all [TS]

  the money that I want to spend on a mac [TS]

  pro is just my software Kickstarter's [TS]

  oh my goodness alright moving on let's [TS]

  see what we have here at planet of the [TS]

  apps [TS]

  oh god what can we start with before we [TS]

  start talking about this show can we [TS]

  start with the I someone maybe we have a [TS]

  lawyer and I'm how can they get away [TS]

  with calling it planet of the apps when [TS]

  it sounds like planet of the apes is [TS]

  there any that is it doesn't fall under [TS]

  the cat the like parody we're like it's [TS]

  referencing thing a thing but in a [TS]

  joking way so it is almost like trade [TS]

  dress like I don't know I don't know the [TS]

  the the legal things about that just [TS]

  seems too weird to me that they can get [TS]

  away with planet of the apps without [TS]

  paying somebody who has the right to [TS]

  Planet of the Apes Oh fall for next week [TS]

  someone tell me what the deal is [TS]

  yeah i mean three things like a we [TS]

  aren't trademark lawyers be they might [TS]

  have paid someone to license it can see [TS]

  they might just not care and just accept [TS]

  it and if anybody threaten them and they [TS]

  will just settle it because allegory of [TS]

  being apple and exactly the top of a [TS]

  mountain of cash so high you can't even [TS]

  hear the people yelling at you [TS]

  exactly like it's probably we will buy [TS]

  the planet of the apes franchise from [TS]

  universal over the hell owns it but you [TS]

  know when we sneeze the money falls out [TS]

  of our pockets [TS]

  yeah exactly like it's probably I mean [TS]

  it you know as as amateurs hear it does [TS]

  kind of seem like it might be considered [TS]

  like generic enough or [TS]

  clearly clear enough parody or satire [TS]

  that it might not be a clear-cut case of [TS]

  actual infringement humor the camera [TS]

  angle is the strongest one but I'm right [TS]

  that funny [TS]

  no it's not apples not good at being [TS]

  funny and I was like how bad is your [TS]

  plan have to be before it stops being [TS]

  humor I i think what one thing that you [TS]

  know I I don't want to bash chapel too [TS]

  much about this but i do think that one [TS]

  very clear difference between apple now [TS]

  vs apple under steve is that Steve was a [TS]

  cool person like not and and not in all [TS]

  ways and and he knew the ways in which [TS]

  she wasn't cool to kind of kind of [TS]

  played off of them but he was [TS]

  fundamentally like pretty cool person to [TS]

  to the people who follow apple and then [TS]

  to apple customers and I don't think [TS]

  anybody at apple now is cool at least in [TS]

  the senior leadership but i'm not sure [TS]

  they know that it actually kind of seems [TS]

  like they don't know that and are [TS]

  actually under the opposite impression [TS]

  see fed is cool come on [TS]

  what does not know bc Fed is is he is [TS]

  like the dad joke but he knows that and [TS]

  he plays that so he actually doesn't [TS]

  have a pretty good job of managing but [TS]

  he's not much in the public eye I i get [TS]

  like I don't like him i think is [TS]

  profoundly deeply uncool but is under [TS]

  the opposite impression he doesn't think [TS]

  he's cool yeah i agree he's he's just [TS]

  he's comfortable zone skin you think of [TS]

  any cute whooping well no yeah yeah he's [TS]

  a whole different level but uh but yeah [TS]

  I mean I I i wish the like basically [TS]

  apple today is run by a bunch of [TS]

  middle-aged white men and it seems like [TS]

  he that is showing a lot recently and [TS]

  it's unfortunate and that isn't to say [TS]

  that they can still make good stuff but [TS]

  I think some of their decisions are a [TS]

  little odd you know in in context anyway [TS]

  back to get off the name though [TS]

  but yes just to defend or the opposite [TS]

  to condemn Steve Jobs coolness remember [TS]

  that he wanted to call the imac mac [TS]

  man move we all have bad days remember [TS]

  that talked out of it by advertising [TS]

  executives macman I believe them [TS]

  my memory is correct that someone Google [TS]

  and correct me if I'm screwing up but [TS]

  thank goodness for imac yeah [TS]

  to be fair that was a long time ago I [TS]

  know but it's just like the name and [TS]

  tastes like it Steve wasn't as cool back [TS]

  then in in the mid-nineties Steve wasn't [TS]

  as cool 1998 I'm acting but anyway [TS]

  alright so there was a trailer for apple [TS]

  while really I guess Apple musics TV [TS]

  show so the Apple music TV show and it's [TS]

  a little weird like music television [TS]

  yeah thanks you too there so it's called [TS]

  planet of the apps i only saw the [TS]

  trailer once it's like two and a half [TS]

  minutes so it at this point if you [TS]

  listen to the show feel free to pause [TS]

  and watch it [TS]

  I it so I mixed feelings about this it [TS]

  is clearly unequivocally not a show [TS]

  meant for the three of us and that's [TS]

  okay i can move itself that's not a bad [TS]

  thing [TS]

  the idea is I if I understand this right [TS]

  a bunch of app developers or potential [TS]

  app developers come in and do an [TS]

  escalator pitch so they are on an [TS]

  escalator and as the escalators moving [TS]

  down they have like 60 seconds to make a [TS]

  pitch to will I am one of paltrow [TS]

  jessica alba and gary vaynerchuk who I [TS]

  guess at that point get to choose if [TS]

  they want to tutor any of these teams [TS]

  and then I guess there's a competition [TS]

  at the end and if you win [TS]

  among other things you get special [TS]

  placement in the app store which most [TS]

  people would probably give an appendage [TS]

  to get wait so you can i first started [TS]

  out with the escalator pitch thing [TS]

  yeah yeah as a brief diversion here okay [TS]

  so i have a question obviously I've ever [TS]

  pitched Avicii I've been around vc's [TS]

  I've been bored BDCs I've interacted [TS]

  with a lot of pieces but never actually [TS]

  pitched to one that was always done by [TS]

  david and other people who are around me [TS]

  that being said i am familiar with the [TS]

  concept of the elevator pitch where the [TS]

  idea is you're in an elevator with the [TS]

  VC only have like until that you only [TS]

  like they'll be arrived [TS]

  to pitch them on your idea and then you [TS]

  gotta convince them in a short amount of [TS]

  time it's supposed to be like a man or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  however how did this come about because [TS]

  silicon valley has very few tall [TS]

  buildings [TS]

  that's an interesting point there aren't [TS]

  that many elevators there to begin with [TS]

  and the ones that are there are probably [TS]

  going over like three floors the [TS]

  elevator right they are lazy people and [TS]

  have elevators in two-story buildings [TS]

  but it but still it's not like a [TS]

  one-minute pitches like an eight second [TS]

  pitch like that where where did this [TS]

  idea come about [TS]

  maybe in New York taller buildings but [TS]

  silicon valley of money has always been [TS]

  west coast vc's there there are very [TS]

  very few new york vc's that actually fun [TS]

  Silicon Valley or tech project I think [TS]

  elevator pitch pretty silicon valley but [TS]

  going back into steve jobs again [TS]

  remember the story about being trapped [TS]

  in an elevator with steve jobs and he [TS]

  has enough time to fire you in there so [TS]

  it for you to say the wrong thing for [TS]

  him to decide that you're fired and he [TS]

  was remarkably efficient but wow anyone [TS]

  everything that I think elevator pitch [TS]

  predates silicon valley but if not like [TS]

  it's metaphorical more than it is actual [TS]

  but you but you got to the heart of the [TS]

  idea is that if you have to sum up your [TS]

  idea in a short amount of time you [TS]

  should be able to say something that's [TS]

  compelling instead of like just rambling [TS]

  on for 20 minutes and people not knowing [TS]

  what you're selling [TS]

  you need to have an elevator pitch and [TS]

  people in the end the the chat room or [TS]

  like don't you mean we said escalator [TS]

  pitch do you must speak to you mean [TS]

  elevator pitch no that's left planet of [TS]

  the apps get it apps instead of apes you [TS]

  think that would be an elevator pitch [TS]

  but you see what we did there someone [TS]

  who we all know would say they took it [TS]

  and they turned it it's not an elevator [TS]

  bit [TS]

  it's an escalator between makes even [TS]

  less sense because we're you to a cost [TS]

  somebody on an escalator that would be [TS]

  super weird because you wouldn't even be [TS]

  facing them you'll be there above them [TS]

  are below them and the second thing is [TS]

  an escalator riding lesson time then an [TS]

  elevator ride so it is it is [TS]

  ill-conceived in every possible way [TS]

  except for one and that one way is is [TS]

  that an idea that fits in with the [TS]

  reality show answer yes well and it's [TS]

  easier to film an escalator moving [TS]

  towards the host then it are the the the [TS]

  dc's whatever then it is an elevator [TS]

  moving up from the basement and I guess [TS]

  the the four like sponsors host [TS]

  whateverrr looking at a video feed until [TS]

  they arrive until the the purchase [TS]

  it's arrived like it's this weird anyway [TS]

  the name elevator pitch reflects the [TS]

  idea that it should be possible to [TS]

  deliver the summary in the summer time [TS]

  span of an elevator ride or [TS]

  approximately 30 seconds to 2 minutes [TS]

  and is widely credited to Eileen Rossen [TS]

  swag and Michael Caruso while he was an [TS]

  editor for Vanity Fair for its word [TS]

  origins so presumably this well predate [TS]

  Silicon Valley so Believe It or Not [TS]

  Silicon Valley the world did not always [TS]

  running around you [TS]

  truth be told CSO this this show so I me [TS]

  I don't intrinsically have anything [TS]

  against reality shows in fact i watch [TS]

  some truly and utterly atrociously [TS]

  terrible reality shows not often [TS]

  competitions but be that as it may I [TS]

  have watched season of american idol in [TS]

  the past so I i have seen my fair share [TS]

  of reality shows i've seen the voice [TS]

  many times I want a reality show friend [TS]

  yeah right exactly this this show does [TS]

  not speak to me at all and i find it to [TS]

  be fairly preposterous but I don't [TS]

  necessarily think that's a bad thing [TS]

  because i don't think the show is really [TS]

  for me because it's to my know too much [TS]

  about how the sausage is made and this [TS]

  is not a show about how sausages made [TS]

  despite how their pitching it's a show [TS]

  about making sausage making glamorous [TS]

  and my head until this analogy but be [TS]

  that as it may I don't have anymore [TS]

  thanks a lot [TS]

  yeah it's so I mean I can't watch it i [TS]

  presume because i do not pay for Apple [TS]

  music I never have I used it for the [TS]

  free trial and then never paid for it [TS]

  I i would probably watch it if i could [TS]

  for an episode or two just to see what I [TS]

  thought I don't expect I would like it [TS]

  and I don't think that's a problem [TS]

  Marco what do you think I mean obviously [TS]

  I've had similar reactions to most [TS]

  programmers looking at this of just like [TS]

  wow this this kind of looks awful from [TS]

  the trailer it is very clear that it's [TS]

  really meant as a ripoff of shark tank [TS]

  and whatever the original version shark [TS]

  tank was called so [TS]

  tank was called so [TS]

  or else not probably in your because we [TS]

  still have their TV and rename it and [TS]

  everyone thinks we invented it but it [TS]

  might be entertaining show in the same [TS]

  like like what was that not freaks and [TS]

  geeks a beauty and the geek like it was [TS]

  at this horrible dating reality show i [TS]

  think i saw that it was delightful [TS]

  it was terrible but it was delightful [TS]

  yeah and like as a geek watching that [TS]

  your you could you see what you saw all [TS]

  the ridiculous holes in the show but it [TS]

  was still fun to watch as like a fun [TS]

  garbage TV show and this could probably [TS]

  be that too for anybody who is remotely [TS]

  familiar with software development and [TS]

  and building at absent building [TS]

  businesses this might be that kind of do [TS]

  it might be a fun garbage watch it's [TS]

  fine you know I think a lot of people [TS]

  are reading audience because I don't I [TS]

  wouldn't read much into this [TS]

  there's a lot of arguments against it [TS]

  that Apple maybe shouldn't be doing this [TS]

  or that it's going to cast app [TS]

  development in a bad light or it's going [TS]

  to distort people's view and apps and i [TS]

  think most of those things are both true [TS]

  on some level but not a big deal and in [TS]

  reality and all likelihood like they're [TS]

  not going to be enough of an effect on [TS]

  anything to really matter because [TS]

  chances are this is going to go [TS]

  not very far it's going to be watched by [TS]

  not that many people and it's going to [TS]

  make not that big of a cultural impact [TS]

  of any sort [TS]

  so it's probably going to be fun garbage [TS]

  TV for some people to watch [TS]

  I think it's weird that the music app [TS]

  everywhere and it's only an apple music [TS]

  a lot of people are going to have [TS]

  trouble ever even knowing it exists as a [TS]

  result those people who do it exists are [TS]

  gonna have trouble finding it so that's [TS]

  all going to hurt viewership probably [TS]

  but anyway you know the actual show [TS]

  itself you know it's it's it's a garbage [TS]

  reality TV show the host of it are have [TS]

  I think limited knowledge about the [TS]

  reality of a building [TS]

  gary vaynerchuk I like a lot I I think [TS]

  he he really he is the person on the [TS]

  show i'm most interested to to see I i [TS]

  I've followed his work back in the day I [TS]

  met him a couple times he's super nice [TS]

  he is the real deal he knows what he's [TS]

  talking about not necessarily an app [TS]

  development as far as i know but you [TS]

  know he's more like a business [TS]

  consultant but that's what i wanted to [TS]

  get to though is that [TS]

  that's kind of more with the show is [TS]

  about like it's called planet of the [TS]

  apps and its focus on apps because [TS]

  apples funding it and making it and [TS]

  promoting it so the Apple wanted to be [TS]

  all about them and the world they think [TS]

  they created so of course they're [TS]

  focusing the marketing and the naming [TS]

  everything else on apps and all the app [TS]

  developers are saying this is crazy [TS]

  because this isn't how apps are made but [TS]

  the show really isn't about apps it's [TS]

  like if the show was called planet of [TS]

  the websites and you know it's like the [TS]

  website is like an interface to the [TS]

  business and you eat you don't go around [TS]

  saying hey I'm making the new website [TS]

  like no you may dig 1993 lemme tellya [TS]

  well yeah but the point is like for the [TS]

  for the types of things that most people [TS]

  long shade that would be entertaining to [TS]

  watch at all no one's gonna watch a show [TS]

  about you making a bespoke note-taking [TS]

  app or something like that like they're [TS]

  gonna watch a show that's kinda like [TS]

  shark tank or america's got talent or [TS]

  stuff like that that's what people [TS]

  actually want to watch this garbage [TS]

  reality shows for and so they want to [TS]

  hear like the big business idea because [TS]

  this is a show i I'm a tweet about this [TS]

  is kind of like a show for the idea [TS]

  people those people who was a cost [TS]

  app-developers at-bat got at gathering [TS]

  stuff like I had this great idea for an [TS]

  app i will you not tell me about you you [TS]

  can't steal it you do 50 with me I'll be [TS]

  the idea guy you you make the appt ok [TS]

  here's my idea and they tell you some [TS]

  ridiculous idea that is usually [TS]

  impossible and/or terrible this show is [TS]

  for those people to watch kind of like [TS]

  aspirationally because they think that [TS]

  could be them someday that's who this is [TS]

  actually for or people i guess you just [TS]

  want garbage TV to watch sometimes but [TS]

  the point is like this is not going to [TS]

  reflect what it's like to be an indie [TS]

  app developer because not only do people [TS]

  not really want to watch that but most [TS]

  app development isn't in the app [TS]

  developers most app development is [TS]

  in-house employees or contractors for up [TS]

  for like bigger businesses that where [TS]

  the error is not exactly the app itself [TS]

  is not the business [TS]

  the app is just an interface to the [TS]

  business in the same way that 10 years [TS]

  ago the website was the inner [TS]

  face to most businesses that were made [TS]

  in our in our industry right so we want [TS]

  this to be some other things like people [TS]

  like this working we wanted to be like [TS]

  this beautiful story about app [TS]

  developers and it's just not going to be [TS]

  that it's gonna be the exact same thing [TS]

  that would have been 10 12 years ago [TS]

  people pitching vc's about ideas that [TS]

  were based on web apps and web services [TS]

  at social networks and you know very [TS]

  like that's it's gonna just be that but [TS]

  where the interface to it happens to be [TS]

  an app in the app store it's not gonna [TS]

  be great you know academically it's not [TS]

  going to be a high quality TV but I [TS]

  don't think it's going to meaningfully [TS]

  impact the app business or people's [TS]

  perception of it for lots of reasons not [TS]

  least two books i don't think many [TS]

  people watch it but also just as I just [TS]

  I don't think it really has much bearing [TS]

  on what most of us actually do but i [TS]

  also think it doesn't really purport to [TS]

  because that doesn't because what most [TS]

  of us really do or what we think we want [TS]

  to do with India and development is such [TS]

  a very very tiny sliver of the world out [TS]

  of that development as a whole [TS]

  thinking back to when we first talked [TS]

  about this and we have this you know [TS]

  there's so little information like [TS]

  apples making a show about app [TS]

  development something something and then [TS]

  if you like celebrity names attached to [TS]

  it and we had that brief moment where we [TS]

  could talk about the possibility of this [TS]

  being a show that is actually about app [TS]

  development and I think the time we said [TS]

  how can that they can't make that [TS]

  interesting does not want to see someone [TS]

  sitting there encoding like that's not [TS]

  going to be on the show right but still [TS]

  we were we were entertaining the idea of [TS]

  a show about app development but of [TS]

  course like when the show comes out it's [TS]

  not about app development as Mark [TS]

  pointed out is it is basically like a [TS]

  subset of shark tank imagine shark tank [TS]

  except the only thing you can pitch our [TS]

  businesses represented by an application [TS]

  you're writing your own bad pitch right [TS]

  that's what it is [TS]

  okay I have this great idea for a show [TS]

  are you ready i'll be the idea guy you [TS]

  make the entire show okay it's like [TS]

  shark tank but for apps [TS]

  yeah but all but only but only apps like [TS]

  if you see if your business can isn't [TS]

  like Rep like Instagram would be [TS]

  business represented by napisal sorts of [TS]

  things would be like is the appt the [TS]

  sort of standard bearer for your [TS]

  business [TS]

  is that how people deal with your [TS]

  business is it through a nap then you're [TS]

  fine but if you have any other business [TS]

  idea [TS]

  no sorry got to go on shark tank right [TS]

  so it's a narrow slice thing and [TS]

  presumably Apple does this because [TS]

  they're the app company and so there's [TS]

  some kind of synergy there but this [TS]

  brings up a a tweet that uh our friend [TS]

  cable SAS or panic [TS]

  posted today yesterday I forget it was [TS]

  arguing with grouper about something in [TS]

  you and his reply was you can't just say [TS]

  well that's route reality TV [TS]

  he's he's using well that's reality TV [TS]

  as a verb so I'm going to try to read [TS]

  this in the way that it says you can't [TS]

  quote well that's reality TV a thing [TS]

  from Apple does that sentence makes [TS]

  sense to people that's what he wrote I'm [TS]

  trying real hard here on an actor it's [TS]

  from Apple the experts of good taste now [TS]

  get a free pass for junk like the ideas [TS]

  you can't just always reality or [TS]

  whatever because it's more apple we have [TS]

  some expectations of taste which would [TS]

  you know get it [TS]

  planet of the apps and perhaps not [TS]

  getting off on the right foot right from [TS]

  the title when I saw the sweet i was [TS]

  thinkin like we talked two passions [TS]

  about Apple getting into the content [TS]

  market and i still think that makes [TS]

  sense because if they are going to try [TS]

  to compete with the netflix in there an [TS]

  amazon and stuff and netflix and amazon [TS]

  are doing original content apple should [TS]

  be doing original content to but the [TS]

  thing about content is if you're doing [TS]

  original content well not saying you [TS]

  can't but probably you shouldn't imbue [TS]

  that content with any of the [TS]

  sensibilities from your company which [TS]

  sounds like was not an apple whole thing [TS]

  is everything they do imbued with the [TS]

  sensibility of Apple but content is [TS]

  different there is nothing particularly [TS]

  about stranger things are man in the [TS]

  high castle that makes me think Netflix [TS]

  or Amazon like there's no one of their [TS]

  corporate DNA and those shows creative [TS]

  content especially entertainment has to [TS]

  be true to its genre so it's a sci-fi [TS]

  show make a good sci-fi show if it is a [TS]

  family drama make a good family drama if [TS]

  it's a wacky comedy make a good webcam [TS]

  it doesn't matter how well wacky comedy [TS]

  family drama sci fi fit with your [TS]

  corporate branding and it's weird [TS]

  because Amazon and Netflix and Apple are [TS]

  these tech based companies that do [TS]

  fairly different things with some over [TS]

  app but none of them having to do with [TS]

  creativity but I think netflix amazon [TS]

  has shown if you get the right people [TS]

  involved basically like what is being [TS]

  supplied by Netflix and Amazon obviously [TS]

  there's a venue for viewing but the most [TS]

  important thing is money [TS]

  here you go people who know how to get [TS]

  creative things created by creative [TS]

  people [TS]

  here's a bucket of money can you make a [TS]

  good show and out pops house of cards [TS]

  answer yes if you throw enough money [TS]

  that you hire the right people [TS]

  netflix a company that delivers plastic [TS]

  discs and streaming video to people's [TS]

  houses you know used to plant uses the [TS]

  lastest can make good content and same [TS]

  thing with amazon the place that you buy [TS]

  stuff from they deliver for you in boxes [TS]

  can make original content so if Apple [TS]

  has decided you can our debate the [TS]

  merits of this that they're going to [TS]

  make a reality show [TS]

  I think we're getting a little bit [TS]

  confused by the fact that involves apps [TS]

  the bottom line is all right if you're [TS]

  gonna make a reality show what our [TS]

  reality shows like and can you make a [TS]

  good one and i'm going to defend reality [TS]

  shows as a long time for your reality [TS]

  shows from from the very beginning I [TS]

  still watching enjoy many of them that [TS]

  there is such a thing as a good reality [TS]

  show and a bad reality show [TS]

  oh yeah but but within the genre like [TS]

  there is a genre and if you look at this [TS]

  trailer you go that's a reality show [TS]

  like it is clearly recognizable as a [TS]

  reality show and I think it could be a [TS]

  good reality show if done well because [TS]

  it involves people with the skill and an [TS]

  ambition and a dream or whatever and [TS]

  they are going to you know in all these [TS]

  scenarios where you have the panel of [TS]

  experts to pick them on them that can be [TS]

  very bad or it can be good where they're [TS]

  trying to encourage people after the [TS]

  initial like let's make fun of the other [TS]

  people who are really bad you know sort [TS]

  of American i'll type thing like that I [TS]

  feel like a bad aspect of it but either [TS]

  way once you get into the human story of [TS]

  like I what I want to do this thing you [TS]

  don't need to know what the details of [TS]

  the struggle our this won't be about [TS]

  application development probably mostly [TS]

  be about starting a new business and [TS]

  business ideas and in the end unlike for [TS]

  example american idol in the end there [TS]

  is much less ability to make these [TS]

  people into Superstars I'm even know [TS]

  Kyle had trouble eventually but like [TS]

  Carrie Kelly Clarkson had a reasonable [TS]

  expectation that if she won this reality [TS]

  show she would have a viable recording [TS]

  career a because the people picking her [TS]

  are going to pick people based on talent [TS]

  and be because you get an in with the [TS]

  recording industry which is way more [TS]

  monolithic and actually back then had [TS]

  even more power than it does today to [TS]

  make you a star [TS]

  uh because they control distribution and [TS]

  so it's always much less so than they [TS]

  used to in the old days but still it was [TS]

  a think but for this for the app show i [TS]

  don't particularly trust that the four [TS]

  people on the expert panel have any idea [TS]

  what is going to be a successful app [TS]

  beyond like any for random people that [TS]

  you picked in the tech industry and [TS]

  furthermore i don't particularly think [TS]

  that even Apple itself by featuring you [TS]

  in the app store and heavily pushing you [TS]

  is going to turn your idea into a viable [TS]

  business for the long term but I think [TS]

  none of that matters for reality shows [TS]

  because at this point we are perfectly [TS]

  willing to accept that winning a reality [TS]

  show is its own reward and whatever they [TS]

  promised you know yeah you'll be rich [TS]

  and famous river or forget you by next [TS]

  season because that's not what it's [TS]

  about is an entertainment program and [TS]

  you want and like that can be done badly [TS]

  and explosively or could be done in a [TS]

  way that people enjoy where you get to [TS]

  see plain old human drama and people [TS]

  with skills trying to apply those skills [TS]

  and challenging situation hopefully the [TS]

  judges and the sponsors are supportive [TS]

  and encouraging and it is a positive [TS]

  type of program with good production [TS]

  values that treats its intestines well [TS]

  that has smart funny and interesting and [TS]

  charming judges i believe a good reality [TS]

  show as possible i don't know whether [TS]

  this will be one but i think the fact [TS]

  that this reality show involves apps is [TS]

  a distraction and a thing that skews [TS]

  people's thinking about it but i guess [TS]

  the only thing you really debated is [TS]

  should the first major piece of original [TS]

  content that Apple made not counting [TS]

  carpool karaoke was resisting franchise [TS]

  should be a reality show [TS]

  maybe maybe not but again i don't think [TS]

  it by judging based on that you could [TS]

  say you shouldn't be trying to figure [TS]

  out how well does reality show fit with [TS]

  apples evils that's not the question at [TS]

  all questions are reality shows popular [TS]

  yes they are popular so if if you were [TS]

  picking genre and it's also different [TS]

  than other people there now [TS]

  doing a sci-fi ray retro sci-fi show or [TS]

  a show based on you know [TS]

  scifi books from well-known author write [TS]

  that that has been well-trod territory [TS]

  they're doing a reality show is their [TS]

  first thing which is a little bit [TS]

  different than doing a superhero thing [TS]

  or anything like that so I think that's [TS]

  a reasonable choice and at some point [TS]

  someone convince them if we are doing a [TS]

  reality show there's a little bit of [TS]

  energy if we do and perhaps but i'm [TS]

  willing to give this show all the [TS]

  benefit of the doubt even though I [TS]

  certainly won't watch him and I'm not [TS]

  interested in that I don't watch shark [TS]

  tank either all the benefit of the doubt [TS]

  but what I would say is if Apple serious [TS]

  about content i hope it doesn't only do [TS]

  reality shows because there's no reason [TS]

  Apple can't do original content in any [TS]

  genre that it wants because it has that [TS]

  same thing amazon netflix have mountains [TS]

  of money and if they are wise and hire [TS]

  the right people's and you throw amount [TS]

  of money at them they can make a good [TS]

  video content in any genre you can [TS]

  imagine and i love that that's happening [TS]

  with amazon netflix and i would like [TS]

  that for that to happen apple because [TS]

  one of the house so they going to do [TS]

  with their money that I make it a car or [TS]

  whatever so I'm all for it even if it is [TS]

  weirdly connected with Apple music and [TS]

  even if I will never ever watch the show [TS]

  yeah i mean i-i understand why everyone [TS]

  was perturbed about it and I understand [TS]

  that it's over this is a distraction in [TS]

  yeah I guess maybe for some of Apple but [TS]

  I mean for the developers that are that [TS]

  are doing the sorts of things said that [TS]

  the three of us really care about I [TS]

  don't think it's much more distraction [TS]

  at all [TS]

  1 like it's not like it the the people [TS]

  who are making this show we're not [TS]

  taking off new mac pro hardware to make [TS]

  this show [TS]

  yeah exactly yeah that involved the mac [TS]

  pro hardware team as is Billy assembling [TS]

  the escalator exactly yeah and I don't [TS]

  think it's a distraction because apples [TS]

  in the TV connected box business and [TS]

  they're in the streaming video business [TS]

  like they have been you know from old [TS]

  like so this is not a new venture where [TS]

  they will sell you a rent movies and [TS]

  video like everybody else was in that [TS]

  business is doing original content and I [TS]

  think it's that's been shown to be a [TS]

  model that works so they're late comers [TS]

  to this all they're doing is continuing [TS]

  to compete in the market they were [TS]

  already in it's like why are you making [TS]

  TV shows you destroy [TS]

  you know they were already there already [TS]

  in that market they've been selling [TS]

  apple tv's of various kinds for a long [TS]

  time they've been selling video of the [TS]

  itunes store for a long time [TS]

  that's a market there in there just [TS]

  competing it people should be [TS]

  encouraging them like to encourage them [TS]

  to compete in the personal computer [TS]

  market [TS]

  yes by all means look at what your [TS]

  competitors doing and try to make your [TS]

  product more valuable and desirable good [TS]

  job not a distraction at all [TS]

  we respond to this week by pingdom start [TS]

  monitoring your websites and servers [TS]

  today at kingdom com / ATP you'll get a [TS]

  14-day free trial when you enter code [TS]

  ATP at checkout you get twenty percent [TS]

  off your first invoice kingdom is an [TS]

  amazing monitoring service i have used [TS]

  kingdom now in a couple of months it [TS]

  will be my 10-year anniversary i use it [TS]

  for almost all of tumblr all events the [TS]

  paper all overcast so far and everything [TS]

  I've done in the meantime it is such a [TS]

  great monitor insurance if you run a [TS]

  website or a server or any kind of web [TS]

  service you want kingdom to check it [TS]

  because here's what happens stuff goes [TS]

  down all the time work its slow or it [TS]

  some some test fails pingdom can alert [TS]

  you to that they can check your website [TS]

  as often as once every minute and of [TS]

  course you can customize that they can [TS]

  check for more than good for more than [TS]

  70 global test servers you can see [TS]

  friends if your site is slow or down and [TS]

  only part of the world because maybe [TS]

  some routing or dns issue or something [TS]

  that it can test so many different [TS]

  things and then you can be alerted [TS]

  however you want to be alert text [TS]

  message email push notification from [TS]

  their app there's so many different [TS]

  options you can customize the frequency [TS]

  you're alerted when your Lord why you're [TS]

  alerted and then you can be the first to [TS]

  know if your website is down or [TS]

  something is broken before you get a [TS]

  bunch of people on Twitter tell you hey [TS]

  you know you're settling down for the [TS]

  last three hours [TS]

  you don't want that you want to be the [TS]

  first one to know that you can go fix it [TS]

  before too many of your customers or [TS]

  users see it and this stuff breaking the [TS]

  internet all the time pintubi text more [TS]

  than 13 million outages more than [TS]

  400,000 outages every day so whether [TS]

  your web presence is a small website or [TS]

  a complete infrastructure you should [TS]

  definitely monitor it and if you're [TS]

  gonna monitor it i highly suggest [TS]

  pingdom my chosen monitoring service for [TS]

  nearly 10 years go to pingie.com /a TPI [TS]

  cheese what it was i used for 10 [TS]

  years like I looking around my entire [TS]

  technology world there's almost nothing [TS]

  else I've used for 10 years I've only [TS]

  used coffee for like 12 years [TS]

  it's incredible check out pingdom it is [TS]

  so so good [TS]

  bing.com / ATP for a 14-day free trial [TS]

  and get twenty percent of your first [TS]

  invoice with offer code ATP thank you to [TS]

  kingdom for sponsoring our show I don't [TS]

  even know how to pronounce this tavo [TS]

  kavo cavo that's it that's exactly how [TS]

  you have to say it now [TS]

  alright good i'm glad i'm glad i got its [TS]

  protector II yeah [TS]

  nicely done nicely done i always feel [TS]

  bad about that and primer you guys that [TS]

  don't know you don't like being humble [TS]

  enough but you know you know them you [TS]

  don't move either do you can i'm aware [TS]

  of its existence not gonna take that is [TS]

  only mark hope no one was at the time [TS]

  traveling one with the box at the [TS]

  refrigerator size box [TS]

  yes no I have seen that actually I don't [TS]

  detect right that's it [TS]

  anyway the title that movie is PR imer [TS]

  and the person who made that movie i [TS]

  initially expected people and prefer [TS]

  people to pronounce it primer know but [TS]

  eventually gave up because everybody [TS]

  everybody who saw that word pronounced [TS]

  the primer which is an alternate [TS]

  translation of that word with a [TS]

  different meaning and so the creator of [TS]

  the movie had to cover and protect curry [TS]

  same situation i believe the original [TS]

  logo had a bar over the e to try to tell [TS]

  you with a long e stay strategery right [TS]

  now is correct but that didn't work and [TS]

  the public has spoken and now the [TS]

  creator of that site says trajectory [TS]

  truth sorry Ben Thompson anyway I've [TS]

  known as well so tell me about God lot [TS]

  of people were tweeting this with the [TS]

  idea this is the omnivorous box that I [TS]

  talked about on hypercritical and [TS]

  earlier on [TS]

  earlier episodes of ATP it's such an all [TS]

  idea from like 2011 over the [TS]

  hypocritical was goes back when I was [TS]

  complaining a lot about tivo and what I [TS]

  wanted was someone to make a box [TS]

  it would be nice if it was apple that [TS]

  sat on my TV and had a whole bunch of [TS]

  inputs took video from all the places [TS]

  that I pay for stuff back in two [TS]

  thousand and was like hey I pay for [TS]

  cable and also pay for netflix and i [TS]

  also have a you know a blu-ray player or [TS]

  Playstation you know all these different [TS]

  places that i can get video into my TV i [TS]

  would like all those inputs to go into [TS]

  this thing that I called an omnivorous [TS]

  box because it would assume anything and [TS]

  then I wanted one cable coming out of [TS]

  India I'm not nervous box into my [TS]

  television and one remote that controls [TS]

  the omniverse box and I would be able to [TS]

  through a single interface have access [TS]

  to all the video that i pay for to pay [TS]

  for cable subscription cables TV shows [TS]

  they come on my tivo record them i want [TS]

  access to all the shows both live and [TS]

  recorded i pay for netflix and that you [TS]

  know there's a netflix client either on [TS]

  my television or on their neighbors box [TS]

  yourself or on apple TV or something i [TS]

  want to be able to see that stuff i have [TS]

  a plaque server running and that's you [TS]

  know or ps3 media server back then and [TS]

  that has the complaint files from a hard [TS]

  drive somewhere in my basement want to [TS]

  watch that kind as well I wanted to be [TS]

  one big unified interface so when I look [TS]

  through the show's available for me to [TS]

  watch it does not express to me in any [TS]

  way where this stuff comes from it's [TS]

  just like yes this video comes from many [TS]

  different sources but I give you a [TS]

  unified interface to it's just a series [TS]

  of things that you can watch things that [TS]

  might come on the future things that [TS]

  haven't come on come on the past things [TS]

  you can stream right now just one big [TS]

  continuous clean interface and that is a [TS]

  super hard problem to solve because all [TS]

  those people who distribute that content [TS]

  cable companies netflix even like the [TS]

  ps3 media server people do not want you [TS]

  to make that box they want you to use [TS]

  their box and their remote and all that [TS]

  other stuff especially cable companies [TS]

  that making that box is would be [TS]

  finished difficult many companies try [TS]

  google gave probably the best run but [TS]

  it's absurd cool TV thing with the crazy [TS]

  remote remember that [TS]

  yep it was like to Google TV's ago I [TS]

  forget which link yeah [TS]

  I was remember that was one of the irish [TS]

  myths that was gonna be on every TV [TS]

  right [TS]

  no that was the second one this one [TS]

  before that yeah anyway it's a really [TS]

  hard problem both technically because [TS]

  how would you even solve the technical [TS]

  problem and business-wise because [TS]

  everybody who's injured whose input is [TS]

  going into your nervous box does not [TS]

  want people to get their content through [TS]

  your neighbors box and they will fight [TS]

  you on it like they will make it so your [TS]

  box stops working on purpose because [TS]

  they don't want you to be the middleman [TS]

  it's like no they don't want that at all [TS]

  and so no one ever did make that box [TS]

  tivo came the closest because tivo get [TS]

  takes the cable input because of cable [TS]

  card which is the thing that happened [TS]

  when there was a brief moment of semi [TS]

  sanity and our lovemaking institutions [TS]

  in this country that allowed third-party [TS]

  products to accept cable signals with [TS]

  some caveats so that's why I can even [TS]

  use acute a tivo and why don't have to [TS]

  have a cable box so we could get cable [TS]

  television and record that and then [TS]

  eventually tivo added some fairly grim [TS]

  streaming video clients their platform [TS]

  so you can watch netflix your tivo & [TS]

  amazon through your TiVo and all and [TS]

  because the plex client i forget anyway [TS]

  not quite omnivorous because you can [TS]

  watch itunes coming through there and [TS]

  you can't watch my blu-ray player [TS]

  through there and you know all sorts of [TS]

  stuff like that so I'm never spoke never [TS]

  came to be enter cabo with 2 a's and no [TS]

  bar over any of them [TS]

  this is a set-top box that takes a whole [TS]

  bunch of hdmi inputs and has one output [TS]

  and it tries to do something like what i [TS]

  described that you have one convo remote [TS]

  he used that remote and with it you can [TS]

  see all the video that is available on [TS]

  all the different devices that are [TS]

  plugged into it and you can watch video [TS]

  friend of them any of them I it is not i [TS]

  think really an omnivorous box because [TS]

  one of my requirements from nervous [TS]

  boxes that provides one interface it [TS]

  doesn't make you have to be aware of [TS]

  where stuff comes from and one of combos [TS]

  primary interfaces is a series of boxes [TS]

  that say roku ps4 Amazon Apple TV Direct [TS]

  TV like when I first saw it I thought [TS]

  this is a glorified hdmi switcher it's [TS]

  like great all you're basically my [TS]

  things go into one box and add that box [TS]

  it connects your television [TS]

  and then when you turn on with the one [TS]

  remote you can pick which thing you want [TS]

  to do and then you just get the [TS]

  interface that thing that's not quite [TS]

  how it works will link in the show notes [TS]

  to this video from the verge which is [TS]

  very long kind of boring but just scrub [TS]

  through until you soon start actually [TS]

  using the device of the creators of this [TS]

  thing talking to her talking to walt [TS]

  mossberg highly recognized because of [TS]

  his silly beard and someone else and [TS]

  they give demos of the product and it [TS]

  tries to do more than that it tries to [TS]

  give you an interface to all the things [TS]

  that are available on all the devices [TS]

  it's not particularly pretty to look at [TS]

  but it will try to say hey here is the [TS]

  show is available for you to watch [TS]

  without expressing to where they are [TS]

  from it it has amazon echo integrations [TS]

  they keep doing this demo of like you [TS]

  know watch stranger things and you have [TS]

  like a preference list of like when I [TS]

  say watch stranger things and you [TS]

  determine the stranger things that shows [TS]

  on netflix and i have three boxes [TS]

  connected that can all do netflix I I [TS]

  want you to prefer to use the apple TV [TS]

  for netflix for whatever reason so we'll [TS]

  start playing stranger things from [TS]

  netflix through the apple TV if you say [TS]

  watching my castle it will determine [TS]

  that that is only on amazon and you have [TS]

  an amazon streaming thing connected [TS]

  somewhere and so it will start playing [TS]

  it from that for you so the voice [TS]

  control interfaces like you know one [TS]

  level up from what each of these devices [TS]

  do individually same thing with the [TS]

  remote remote you're controlling the [TS]

  combobox the combo box is controlling [TS]

  the inputs [TS]

  I wonder how they're doing the unified [TS]

  interface it doesn't look that great [TS]

  it's mostly just text it's not a [TS]

  particularly rich interface if you were [TS]

  to go to the interface to any of these [TS]

  boxes or services it would look better [TS]

  and have nice pictures and more metadata [TS]

  and stuff but at least at least they're [TS]

  trying i think this box faces the same [TS]

  challenges as a real omnivorous boxwood [TS]

  and that the companies that they are [TS]

  sort of trying to insert themselves [TS]

  between you know the customer and these [TS]

  other boxes those boxes aren't going to [TS]

  like that and if they don't [TS]

  intentionally break them they will [TS]

  accidentally break them especially if [TS]

  their means of control involves I mean [TS]

  like are they doing screen scraping are [TS]

  they trying to use API is documented or [TS]

  otherwise how are they even doing this [TS]

  they have separate metadata somewhere [TS]

  that's like in the cloud so it's not [TS]

  actually [TS]

  looking at the content or the hdmi think [TS]

  so i don't know i don't know how they're [TS]

  doing it it doesn't look that impressive [TS]

  but at least they're giving it up it you [TS]

  know giving it the old college try the [TS]

  most interesting thing about this demo [TS]

  are the things that are probably the [TS]

  least technically cool in that you know [TS]

  what calling as a glorified hdmi switch [TS]

  is kind of mean but calling a glorified [TS]

  receiver less less mean but if you if [TS]

  you have a receiver or any other box it [TS]

  takes a whole bunch of hdmi inputs and [TS]

  one output your television you know that [TS]

  strangely one of the challenges is aside [TS]

  from having a million different modes [TS]

  and having to switch inputs that's [TS]

  that's cumbersome so one of the demos [TS]

  they give is what if someone comes over [TS]

  your house and they don't know how to [TS]

  use the 17 remotes that are on your end [TS]

  table right or even the one logitech [TS]

  harmony remote that you have because [TS]

  that is generally complicated an example [TS]

  they gave the demos like what if someone [TS]

  comes out of your house and they see you [TS]

  have a playstation 4 BC the controller [TS]

  sitting on the end table and they just [TS]

  pick up the PlayStation control off the [TS]

  end table [TS]

  nothing is you know you just come into [TS]

  the room nothing is turned on and just [TS]

  pick up the PlayStation controller and [TS]

  turn it on any reasonably good receive [TS]

  your should be able to notice that hey I [TS]

  was sitting here and everything is off [TS]

  but i noticed that the PlayStation came [TS]

  on and started sending video output so i [TS]

  am going to see some other thing that [TS]

  supposed to work but doesn't turn on [TS]

  your television switch the input to the [TS]

  you know switch my input as the receiver [TS]

  whatever I'm to the ps4 thing and so now [TS]

  merely by pressing the PlayStation on [TS]

  button on the PlayStation controller [TS]

  there it is on your screen [TS]

  you don't have to know oh if you want to [TS]

  play playstation pick up the receiver [TS]

  remote switch the input number two then [TS]

  turn on the tivo or then then turn on [TS]

  the PlayStation make sure you do it in [TS]

  that order [TS]

  if you want to hear it through the [TS]

  receiver speakers also turn the receiver [TS]

  on but if you don't go through the [TS]

  television they probably know you don't [TS]

  have to know how to do that and then if [TS]

  someone comes along and they turn the [TS]

  roku on it will notice even the [TS]

  playstation 4 is already on because you [TS]

  just activated the roku using the roku [TS]

  remote because maybe all you know is the [TS]

  Roku but you know to help his capital [TS]

  thing is you don't know the place in UCL [TS]

  Roker about I work with and you just [TS]

  turn the roku [TS]

  one-two combo box will see it well even [TS]

  though playstation is on someone just [TS]

  turned the rocker arms i'm going to [TS]

  switch the roku input and let you [TS]

  control it with the roku remote that's [TS]

  type of functionality should be in every [TS]

  decent receiver and probably isn't a lot [TS]

  of decent receivers but to me that was [TS]

  the most impressive because it's like [TS]

  yes that's how r receiver should work [TS]

  and I'm glad that someone that has [TS]

  realized this and tried to build it into [TS]

  a box so I i start off thinking this is [TS]

  a glorified hdmi switcher receiver and i [TS]

  ended up thinking this is a really good [TS]

  hdmi switcher / receiver now but not the [TS]

  bad news the bad news is it's four [TS]

  hundred dollars [TS]

  alright and this forty dollars does not [TS]

  include any of the boxes that you [TS]

  connect to it which doesnt a problem [TS]

  because i already have a million TV [TS]

  boxes but like the ideas you buy this [TS]

  box you and it's like you get nothing [TS]

  it's like it's like buying a technology [TS]

  with the discs in it's like yeah it's [TS]

  there it's ready for you to plug things [TS]

  into but it's no good to you until you [TS]

  plug-in puts into it so four hundred [TS]

  dollars and then hundred dollars for [TS]

  every box depending on what am I guess [TS]

  the apple ones are expensive you know [TS]

  sixty dollars for chromecast six dollars [TS]

  for cheap recall roku hundred dollars [TS]

  for a good one whatever but if you [TS]

  already have all those boxes and maybe [TS]

  if you don't have a receiver [TS]

  oh and also it's pretty big and it's [TS]

  weird it would and it's probably not [TS]

  going to be available to consumers until [TS]

  2018 so always caveat besides all the [TS]

  head [TS]

  it's great yeah that they're gonna sell [TS]

  5,000 sometime this year you can pick [TS]

  three different kinds of wood three [TS]

  different kinds of ugly would be on top [TS]

  of it don't now that you told me that I [TS]

  man you're really doing a great job of [TS]

  selling this to I know yeah I don't [TS]

  think this product is really going [TS]

  anywhere but I was excited by the idea [TS]

  that someone is tackled some of the very [TS]

  basic problems of this terrible terrible [TS]

  television age we live in where we all [TS]

  have way too many pucks or other kinds [TS]

  of boxes connected to our televisions [TS]

  and very frequently watching any video [TS]

  content involved switching inputs and [TS]

  possibly also fishing remotes and all [TS]

  the solutions that try to make it easier [TS]

  are bad in some way including this one [TS]

  but in the absence of a true omnivorous [TS]

  box which can probably never exist the [TS]

  same region open doctor [TS]

  we never exist business reasons on top [TS]

  of technical reasons equals death [TS]

  I i like the fact that someone is trying [TS]

  to push the envelope forward and help [TS]

  somebody buys this company and [TS]

  incorporates they're good ideas into [TS]

  their own products like tivo I assume [TS]

  now there [TS]

  come on come on I just want to stay in [TS]

  business they're not by anybody please [TS]

  do not waste your money buying these [TS]

  people [TS]

  well I want to buy them make their apple [TS]

  TV better Apple gonna make a box like [TS]

  this across the neverwood but like the [TS]

  type of the type of functionality of [TS]

  just like can we stop people from having [TS]

  to do a switch inputs that would be good [TS]

  like can't just do what I mean you just [TS]

  notice because i turn the PlayStation on [TS]

  it probably want to play with [TS]

  playstation just switched and put [TS]

  automatically nice thanks for three [TS]

  sponsors this week 0 square space and [TS]

  Kingdom and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  death was accidental [TS]

  John did [TS]

  research Marco in kc would let him [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  know today p dot and if twitter follow [TS]

  them [TS]

  s/he yl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC AC [TS]

  recuse it [TS]

  what [TS]

  we have an odd note in the show notes it [TS]

  says John's Mac throws some more ram [TS]

  with more in parentheses to ya throws in [TS]

  there's the failure throws as in it [TS]

  ejected it it's a bit like a loogie [TS]

  across the room kind of exception [TS]

  handling we've talked about this before [TS]

  that's why this is this is a second the [TS]

  second time this has happened i think [TS]

  i'm gonna run of ATP and i think i use [TS]

  the same language last time the analogy [TS]

  in trying to make here and failing [TS]

  obviously is when a horse throws a shoe [TS]

  you know that expression [TS]

  mhm yeah it you know i was raised in [TS]

  ohio where we had lots of horses [TS]

  no I what no I don't know what that [TS]

  means horse throws a shoe my [TS]

  understanding I was not raised with [TS]

  horses easier either [TS]

  disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer you [TS]

  know you tortures you know the little [TS]

  metal bendy u-shaped things you put on [TS]

  those the body and yeah i know that part [TS]

  at least yeah and they're attached [TS]

  somehow with like these weird-looking [TS]

  spikes or nails or something [TS]

  it's scary and I don't understand it [TS]

  anyway the horses galloping along those [TS]

  little metal u-shaped things are [TS]

  supposed to say on the bottom of the [TS]

  little feets but sometimes when the [TS]

  galloping along one of them goes flying [TS]

  off the foot and that's bad because now [TS]

  your horses lost a shoe and it needs it [TS]

  to walk comfortably where the horses are [TS]

  for and it's throwing isn't like it [TS]

  could go flying because as the horses [TS]

  galloping the shoe goes flying so [TS]

  basically wild like doing something [TS]

  strenuous like encoding a video your mac [TS]

  pro forcefully ejected one of its ram [TS]

  sticks from its lot that's what I'm [TS]

  hearing or not strenuous as the case may [TS]

  be so my mac pro is very old the ramp [TS]

  it's also very old is 2008 mac pro now [TS]

  it is a good solid eight years old [TS]

  pushing up on 9a forget when i bought [TS]

  the thing throwing some ram means i have [TS]

  86 of ramen there and every once in [TS]

  awhile [TS]

  what should stop working and it's like [TS]

  my horse threw a shoe my macbook pro [TS]

  through some ram so I came in the other [TS]

  day and tried to wake my macpro from [TS]

  sleep and the fans spin up at the screen [TS]

  did not turn on and the power light on [TS]

  the front of my macpro was blinking in a [TS]

  very concerning way and unlike later Mac [TS]

  Pro [TS]

  including even the 2009 but I don't know [TS]

  how far they went my mac does not have a [TS]

  little set of red leds on the banks of [TS]

  dims to tell you which ones are bad [TS]

  all I knew is that I had a computer with [TS]

  eight games of ram onto daughter cards [TS]

  for NH that would not boot it just [TS]

  wouldn't post wouldn't do the chime when [TS]

  do anything because you know this is bad [TS]

  around there and this has happened [TS]

  before [TS]

  multiple times I think I brought up in [TS]

  case he had bad around that I had a WC [TS]

  ramen my thing and that despite the fact [TS]

  that my computer is so many years old [TS]

  every time it throws throws a dim if [TS]

  it's a no wc1 that is the problem [TS]

  I just call them up and they sent me a [TS]

  new one and it would be better if they [TS]

  didn't break but after eight years to [TS]

  throw the dim and I get a new one for [TS]

  free [TS]

  I still consider that pretty amazing and [TS]

  in the the age of like you know two year [TS]

  warranties and hard drives or whatever [TS]

  so I had a fun afternoon of unseating [TS]

  daughter cards removing dims putting [TS]

  them back in every valid configuration [TS]

  to by process of elimination find the [TS]

  pair of them that they have to be in [TS]

  Paris find the match pair of games that [TS]

  don't work and even with the parents all [TS]

  I can tell you is that one of the two [TS]

  doesn't work out or they might both be [TS]

  bad so eventually after many many boots [TS]

  and and I'm good at this now many many [TS]

  sizes of seating and seeing which is [TS]

  actually kind of satisfying with little [TS]

  clips that have them and everything and [TS]

  how you shoved them in eventually did [TS]

  find the pair of games that was bad [TS]

  they were already see dims and I am they [TS]

  are sending the new ones for free [TS]

  nice so I'm down I'm down the other two [TS]

  gigs or four gigs of ram right now still [TS]

  doing okay let's see what I got here 14 [TS]

  gigs of ram so i should have 18 sigh [TS]

  come down for ok dear apple if if you [TS]

  are still listening to this somehow for [TS]

  some reason please put this computer out [TS]

  of its misery [TS]

  give John a new mac pro two x so he can [TS]

  finally stop using this ancient one [TS]

  please attend the terror that fills my [TS]

  heart when I think is the time that it [TS]

  it's like that is just dead like the [TS]

  motherboard is dead you know that it's [TS]

  just not going to boot right because [TS]

  then I think about like I would have I [TS]

  don't have to buy an imac or should I [TS]

  just like buy the cheapest laptop i can [TS]

  do or what I do with all my data I just [TS]

  it's terrifying [TS]

  so what you know I was afraid I got down [TS]

  to this point where I was like maybe [TS]

  just not going to boot because I got it [TS]

  down to like just just two dimms you [TS]

  know that the 210 configuration of the [TS]

  two that i thought were like the newest [TS]

  and most reliable ram and it still [TS]

  wouldn't boot and the trick i learned [TS]

  this time is occasionally also need to [TS]

  do an smc reset to make it happy not [TS]

  small-time but occasionally because i [TS]

  was in one ram configuration and it [TS]

  would not boot and then I did an smc [TS]

  reset and it did boot with the same ram [TS]

  configuration and so once I learned that [TS]

  trick that was the easy way to make sure [TS]

  i was you know actually testing the [TS]

  games and I eventually did narrow down [TS]

  and found the two that were bed so I [TS]

  look I've gotten my thing in one bank [TS]

  I've got two gig to gig for gig for gig [TS]

  and the other bank i have one big one [TS]

  big empty empty such a motley collection [TS]

  of ram some of it Apple somewhat [TS]

  purchase from owc in like three [TS]

  different shipments that some of it [TS]

  replaced over time [TS]

  yeah my word Oh kill this machine though [TS]

  takes a lickin and keeps on ticking ok [TS]

  please Apple please just let John [TS]

  replace this please [TS]

  well it was like it's going to show up [TS]

  slower than the apple watch but I'm [TS]

  again yeah exactly like by the time the [TS]

  new by the time the new Mac Pro comes [TS]

  out if it ever does your mac pro is [TS]

  probably going to be slower than every [TS]

  mac for sale at that time [TS]

  oh I'm iOS devices i think that the [TS]

  iphone is already faster but it isn't i [TS]

  believe at least is single threaded pass [TS]

  that I think two generations ago [TS]

  multi-threaded I think it still hasn't [TS]

  but it's close [TS]

  yes i'm saying i'm gonna watch for those [TS]

  four the watch to start lapping me [TS]

  yeah i mean at least if you limit just a [TS]

  single performance it would [TS]

  you're really looking bad compared to [TS]

  all the iOS device but I had more ran [TS]

  the iOS devices and have a one terabyte [TS]

  of flash storage so take that iOS yeah [TS]

  but they're am works all the time who 64 [TS]

  well you don't know that until you use [TS]

  it for eight years of the ram doing on [TS]

  that iphone after eight years after [TS]

  eight years that thing won't even turn [TS]

  on it's not plugged in [TS]

  yeah I'm sorry to hear that someone [TS]

  who's lived through ram problems [TS]

  recently that is no fun and i feel you [TS]

  see how much quicker i diagnosed and [TS]

  dealt with it rather than the rather [TS]

  than like pretending it doesn't exist i [TS]

  guess you can pretend business when your [TS]

  machine doesn't boot but addressed [TS]

  immediately [TS]

  problem solved and also that like [TS]

  audience he wasn't open like their phone [TS]

  line wasn't going to just call them and [TS]

  deal with the nice people there and just [TS]

  read them I serial numbers and they're [TS]

  like okay well Senor ramp I did it [TS]

  through chat which it worked fine like [TS]

  is their phone lines were nothing but [TS]

  the chat was but chat i find infuriating [TS]

  a customer support chat because I don't [TS]

  know why take so long for there to be a [TS]

  response because like hello my name is [TS]

  blah blah how can I help you and then i [TS]

  pasted in my prepared sense of what my [TS]

  problem is that is formatted in a way [TS]

  formatted in a way that I notice will be [TS]

  no follow-up questions that contains all [TS]

  the information appears here is the [TS]

  problem [TS]

  here's why I think this is helping how [TS]

  long does it take you to compose that [TS]

  sense three days i can do it on the fly [TS]

  was it's very easy very concise right [TS]

  but it contains all the information [TS]

  right but here's here's my problem [TS]

  here's why I know it's my problem [TS]

  putting enough information to let them [TS]

  know they don't need to take me through [TS]

  troubleshooting steps and crap right and [TS]

  here's what I want to happen i want you [TS]

  to send me new ramp right like it in a [TS]

  nice way but like all the information is [TS]

  there and then you wait literally 10 [TS]

  minutes for the reply and the reply is [TS]

  can you give me the order number serial [TS]

  number of our blog which of course i [TS]

  have ready for them but I didn't want to [TS]

  confuse them within the original message [TS]

  and paste that in but by 10 more minutes [TS]

  ten more minutes of that chat window [TS]

  just off the side to the credit of the [TS]

  chat thing in WC it has like a child let [TS]

  you know in their reply because you [TS]

  can't be sitting there waiting like [TS]

  there's not even a typing indicator like [TS]

  just just 10 minutes like they just [TS]

  chatting with their friends that they go [TS]

  for a coffee break [TS]

  they're surely not spending this time [TS]

  typing especially for the first message [TS]

  there was no things and looking up in [TS]

  the system of the system is slow we're [TS]

  looking at the order they didn't even [TS]

  have my order number at that point I [TS]

  just told them what the situation is bad [TS]

  ram want new ram here's how I know it's [TS]

  bad [TS]

  don't ask me to blow the dust out of my [TS]

  socket basically like you know 10-minute [TS]

  replying that and then so it just took [TS]

  it an incredible amount of time but [TS]

  during that time I was like present ever [TS]

  we didn't bring Twitter while waiting [TS]

  while waiting for them to reply [TS]

  sometimes I forgot that I was still in [TS]

  the middle of the chat like you know [TS]

  it's long when you forgotten like a [TS]

  little boot goes off like oh that's [TS]

  right I my customers a partnership to [TS]

  get new ram so hopefully that will be on [TS]

  the way soon i'm surprised at this point [TS]

  you don't just call them up on the phone [TS]

  and just be like hey it's me again [TS]

  they're like all right how big to big [TS]

  good to all right just send it out yeah [TS]

  i mean like if they feel they have his [TS]

  lifetime or maybe they'll don't know [TS]

  don't realize you by random odbc like if [TS]

  it goes bad they'll just keep replacing [TS]

  it forever like I think that's how it [TS]

  works like you do have to pay to ship [TS]

  your old room back to them but that's [TS]

  cheap it's very lightweight right so [TS]

  it's a couple bucks to ship over and [TS]

  that is why by the way I saved the boxes [TS]

  I never throw out the boxes the new ram [TS]

  comes in [TS]

  I just you know i'll just keep going to [TS]

  keep getting ram forever for this [TS]

  machine and it's fine with me write it [TS]

  and I think it's like every every two or [TS]

  three years that throws a dim and you [TS]

  know I'm okay with that [TS]

  it's like cases a BMW every once in a [TS]

  while you know 6,000 miles the water [TS]

  pump to go like okay so it would be like [TS]

  after two years you just lost two cpus [TS]

  well the CPUC that's what I'm always [TS]

  afraid I mean ram like I could just say [TS]

  I'm always afraid that the slots are [TS]

  gonna go bad like that but even if that [TS]

  did I can get by with 14 gigs ram [TS]

  instead of 18 like I'm okay I've had [TS]

  such a motley collection of rams machine [TS]

  like weird amounts and weird [TS]

  combinations is but as long as on as [TS]

  long as I'm in the team's I'm okay for [TS]

  what I do with this neck [TS]

  it's just I'm trying to predict like it [TS]

  during which year will you stop using [TS]

  this mac with it when it dies that will [TS]

  stop me right so it actually dies what [TS]

  am I going to do but if it doesn't dive [TS]

  my current plan is look this is the year [TS]

  way to wwc there's still no mac pro for [TS]

  it's an iMac pro either way like it was [TS]

  a macpro maybe maybe not but if there is [TS]

  no mac pro then I'm getting an imac and [TS]

  if there's an imac pro I'm getting an [TS]

  imac pro so my wife's want to just get [TS]

  an imac now it's like I'm resigned to [TS]

  the fact that i'm going to buy something [TS]

  that looks for all the world like a 5pm [TS]

  I can pretty much okay without having [TS]

  used her as a lot of whatever they're [TS]

  not going to make it active anymore [TS]

  what the hell can I do the next best [TS]

  thing is the 5k I'll be okay with it but [TS]

  i'm not going to buy and now i have to [TS]

  wait to see it w see what the thing is [TS]

  is there going to be another [TS]

  Mac Pro is there going to be a special [TS]

  imac for pros either called I mac pro or [TS]

  not that's when I make my buying [TS]

  decision but the thing of it is is you [TS]

  had a new mac pro what was it 15 years [TS]

  ago now when when the trashcan came out [TS]

  you had a new mac pro and you didn't [TS]

  want that one so what makes you think [TS]

  you're going to suddenly decide that [TS]

  this one is ok if i have to reconsider [TS]

  well the problem with knowing what I [TS]

  know now is I also know about the [TS]

  reliability issues of that one [TS]

  like when it came out the reason i [TS]

  didn't buy it was like well is this [TS]

  doesn't quite suit my needs like I don't [TS]

  think that much cpu and GPU is aren't [TS]

  that great and it's super expensive and [TS]

  so on and so forth but all our [TS]

  conversations about that for with the [TS]

  expectation that they'll wait for the [TS]

  next Mac Pro like when they revise it [TS]

  right like and it wasn't such a crazy [TS]

  assumption i thought that happen maybe [TS]

  they even did it for the cheese graters [TS]

  even like that you know the fake new one [TS]

  for the show was founded on like it was [TS]

  still a revision it was still like bait [TS]

  they change some stuff I none of us I [TS]

  think could have predicted like there [TS]

  were literally not release another [TS]

  version of the machine-like ever like [TS]

  just no no I forgot one here to you [TS]

  through it like they just won't do it [TS]

  and that was not in my head so it's like [TS]

  me passing on that mac pro feel like you [TS]

  know it's the first one like wait for [TS]

  the second division i kinda like a dude [TS]

  with the five-time accident by the first [TS]

  one like marketed or even those good [TS]

  machine like the second one came out [TS]

  okay this is the one to get it seems [TS]

  like it's you know everything settled [TS]

  down there's no big problems got the p3 [TS]

  screen that's totally what i was [TS]

  expecting to do with trash can [TS]

  they just never made another one and so [TS]

  you know what can you do you make any [TS]

  progress in your car decision we heard [TS]

  we had a lot of feedback on that my [TS]

  lovely if I love sweetheart can I kind [TS]

  of do this for you Casey please Casey [TS]

  wants a stick shift that was apparently [TS]

  not emphasize enough in the past show in [TS]

  the past 18 shows and the entire run of [TS]

  neutral right if I he hasn't been [TS]

  keeping it a secret but people keep [TS]

  forgetting keep forgetting or people say [TS]

  I know you said you wanted to stick [TS]

  shift but if you considered not a stick [TS]

  shift [TS]

  yeah consider that case you considered [TS]

  not a stick shift because i know you [TS]

  said you wanted one but think about this [TS]

  not oh you really put that when you put [TS]

  it that way I see so not a stick shift [TS]

  that's that what you're saying not [TS]

  thing i want right also a pretty close [TS]

  number two on that list was not [TS]

  front-wheel drive [TS]

  mmhmm yeah a lot of people say no you [TS]

  see you don't worry about that don't [TS]

  worry about a stick shift worry about [TS]

  front-wheel-drive you know I got a [TS]

  perfect front-wheel-drive battleship in [TS]

  car for you that you're looking alright [TS]

  that seems like that's exactly your [TS]

  criteria [TS]

  I mean everything exactly as they were [TS]

  they were arguing you know they were [TS]

  saying most people like yeah some people [TS]

  just plain forgot because i was like [TS]

  they were doing a whole email about the [TS]

  the car you should get but other people [TS]

  pitching you're saying here's why you [TS]

  should consider four-wheel-drive it's [TS]

  not your father's from blah blah and [TS]

  mostly respect those pitches but maybe [TS]

  they just don't know your stubbornness [TS]

  now would you call that an elevator [TS]

  pitch or an escalator pitch called an [TS]

  email pitch and I think people need some [TS]

  have said oh I have to think a lot of [TS]

  people made good arguments like if you [TS]

  were going to try to talk you out of it [TS]

  yeah stick shift or we will drive people [TS]

  had some good arguments based on their [TS]

  actual experiences driving these cars so [TS]

  I think there was a good quality [TS]

  feedback in there but i'm not sure how [TS]

  much help you [TS]

  my other favorite was everyone in the [TS]

  entire world i counted it's true telling [TS]

  me you should buy WRX in fact in the [TS]

  chat room as we speak two different [TS]

  individuals are telling me to buy a [TS]

  subaru WRX no I want allow it [TS]

  no well so here's the thing like I [TS]

  tweeted within a day of the show coming [TS]

  out because I was already getting [TS]

  inundated by it [TS]

  two things I said you know number one I [TS]

  think the WRX isn't classy enough I i [TS]

  want something that's a little bit less [TS]

  boy racer [TS]

  secondly this is my past subaru and it's [TS]

  a picture of my legacy GT now this was [TS]

  after I sold it i think we might discuss [TS]

  on the show but it was after I sold it [TS]

  and it was dotted literally died in a [TS]

  fire you know that phrase that I love so [TS]

  very much died any friggin fire [TS]

  attributing that to the car or is that [TS]

  the owner like I picture to but because [TS]

  you didn't own the car you don't know [TS]

  how that happened [TS]

  that's true however I let me remind you [TS]

  that car smelled of gasoline / petrol [TS]

  for most of the time that I the wheels [TS]

  all stayed on it though unlike industry [TS]

  this is true which was an improvement a [TS]

  little borrow oh yeah we have a case [TS]

  against the car wheel falls off next car [TS]

  dies in a fire that he's doing pretty [TS]

  well I think I didn't hear this was [TS]

  actually just consuming its engine parts [TS]

  in a hail of medication only yeah the no [TS]

  big deal right [TS]

  oh it's not what i'm going to factor [TS]

  here Casey maybe you drive really [TS]

  weirdly i guess i don't know but i [TS]

  thought i had a like a few people reach [TS]

  out with the interesting ideas and I had [TS]

  a handful of people reach out and say [TS]

  the Golf R is just as good as you think [TS]

  it is [TS]

  I had a handful of people with various [TS]

  degrees of aggression say stop fighting [TS]

  with this just least your damn car which [TS]

  i think i understand that in their [TS]

  prayers probably some truth to it in [TS]

  fact Marco you made a pretty good pitch [TS]

  for I don't remember that was on slacker [TS]

  and Twitter but regardless leasing would [TS]

  surely fix many if not all of these [TS]

  problems but it creates other problems [TS]

  which is you know i'm just throwing [TS]

  money into a pit i'm borrowing a call [TS]

  but you're doing that man therefore [TS]

  you're there you're any ownership of a [TS]

  car is throwing money into a pit and [TS]

  only borrowing it no matter how you do [TS]

  it that is the result [TS]

  it's only a difference of of like [TS]

  mechanics of how that actually happens [TS]

  and it on what time scale and input [TS]

  pattern and like what I like about [TS]

  leasing which I said before i'll just go [TS]

  to the very quick summary you know it is [TS]

  not the absolute least money to spend on [TS]

  a car like that at least one defending a [TS]

  car is to buy a lightly used honda or [TS]

  toyota and drive it until it doesn't [TS]

  drive anymore that is by far the [TS]

  cheapest and the cheapest way to own a [TS]

  car but if you're going to go the route [TS]

  of nice cars and in particular for go [TS]

  the route of buying new usually Elise is [TS]

  really nice for that because it is [TS]

  predictable and fixed and you put the [TS]

  risk of market fluctuations the value of [TS]

  your car whether it ever gets in an [TS]

  accident that like you put the risk of [TS]

  all that and the eventual resale value [TS]

  back on the manufacturer know and so you [TS]

  have a very predictable guaranteed [TS]

  next three years of here's what this is [TS]

  going to cost me every year or every [TS]

  month or whatever and then at the end it [TS]

  is done it is over you don't have to [TS]

  worry about it and am I gonna lose a lot [TS]

  of resale for this little scratch i have [TS]

  over here or whatever else I and like [TS]

  and all the maintenance is included so [TS]

  like it's just it's a way to just take [TS]

  this weird like severe up-and-down spiky [TS]

  expense pattern of owning a car and just [TS]

  make it flat make it flat but expensive [TS]

  but financing for financing new versus [TS]

  leasing new it's kind of a toss-up most [TS]

  it depends on the on the incentives and [TS]

  the interest rates of of the current [TS]

  month and and that brand-new [TS]

  configuration looking at sometimes leads [TS]

  actually cheaper because what a lot of [TS]

  the brands will do is they will they [TS]

  will use lease incentives at least [TS]

  specials to help them reach you know [TS]

  earnings for this quarter at it at their [TS]

  own expense basically like the kind of [TS]

  like borrowing as their own future [TS]

  so you can actually that the best deals [TS]

  in the car industry usually are for new [TS]

  cars at least usually our lease specials [TS]

  for that reason that you're not taking [TS]

  advantage of the manufacturers need to [TS]

  boost their numbers in a certain times [TS]

  man or whatever but that that's going to [TS]

  be less applicable to the kinds of cars [TS]

  you're looking at honestly but anyway [TS]

  that's where Lisa's are good they're [TS]

  they're fixed their predictable and [TS]

  they're kind of like if your usage [TS]

  pattern like if your mileage driven fits [TS]

  within one at least can do with yours [TS]

  does then it really makes a lot of sense [TS]

  especially for the kind of cars you're [TS]

  looking at which are fast car sports [TS]

  cars and you know it's one thing to like [TS]

  to leave something more conventional and [TS]

  more like you know low key with like a [TS]

  lower-key not as tweaked up engine and [TS]

  not high-performance breaks not [TS]

  high-performance parts you know that's [TS]

  one thing but the kind of car you're [TS]

  looking at as you know too well now are [TS]

  very expensive to maintain that you're [TS]

  gonna have a problem with any any way [TS]

  you look at this that still involves you [TS]

  having a soul so because of that [TS]

  that's why I think she's going to go to [TS]

  leasing because again you're you're [TS]

  losing a bunch of money about how you do [TS]

  this with leasing at least it's more [TS]

  compatible with the kind of like [TS]

  high-powered sporty cars that you're [TS]

  looking at [TS]

  and it allows it to be predictable [TS]

  there's no more surprises and I tell you [TS]

  what that is a freeing decision like [TS]

  because I i I've done now every method [TS]

  of owning a car i have i have bought [TS]

  used i have bought new buyer financing [TS]

  and I have leased and leasing is the [TS]

  only one of those I did more than once [TS]

  and here's some reason for that because [TS]

  my experience doing the other two were [TS]

  both very poor when i bought used I had [TS]

  a maintenance nightmare when I finance [TS]

  knew I lost a killing on on resale value [TS]

  because at one time had a door panel [TS]

  replace not my fault the car was parked [TS]

  and somebody back into my door and [TS]

  you're gonna replace and they saw that [TS]

  when i went to resell it and they're [TS]

  like they could tell that it had been [TS]

  repainted from looking at the Villa take [TS]

  a look at like the edge on the inside [TS]

  you can see all this repair panel even [TS]

  look from the outside but anyway yeah I [TS]

  i lost like five thousand dollars off [TS]

  the resale price on that car like it was [TS]

  horrible and it just sunk all like it [TS]

  was it that was my cord and like all the [TS]

  all the calculations i didn't think is [TS]

  the best value car that best value was [TS]

  destroyed because that resale loss so [TS]

  everything that I thought I was doing [TS]

  right was out the window because i had [TS]

  bad luck similar to what you're seeing [TS]

  out there be like everything you thought [TS]

  of your calculation of what you're going [TS]

  to spend in this car is being thrown out [TS]

  the window because weird stuff is going [TS]

  wrong and you just happen to have bad [TS]

  luck with the maintenance on this one [TS]

  that can happen with any car you get no [TS]

  matter how reliable is that's it [TS]

  this is all too silly this is why Lisa [TS]

  and she's releasing you get the new car [TS]

  and yes it you're paying what you're [TS]

  paying the cost for a new car right that [TS]

  and that's never gonna be cheap [TS]

  no matter how you do it but if you're [TS]

  going to get a new or newish car with a [TS]

  lease you pay every month you get the [TS]

  car brand-new how the exactly the spec [TS]

  you want you custom order exactly what [TS]

  you want you get every option every [TS]

  color whatever you want your stick shift [TS]

  you can get you don't have to wait and [TS]

  find one you can get exactly what you [TS]

  want [TS]

  three years later you turn into the [TS]

  dealer and you get something else and [TS]

  you don't have to worry during that time [TS]

  if you get like a scratch in months six [TS]

  police [TS]

  you don't have to look at that and say a [TS]

  am I going to look at the scratch for [TS]

  the next 10 years [TS]

  and B what is gonna kill my resale value [TS]

  or do I have to like go get this fixed [TS]

  some really expensive because you know [TS]

  what Lisa's have scratches Lawtons [TS]

  built-in you don't have to pay anything [TS]

  unless it's a really huge dent or [TS]

  something like it just fine you just [TS]

  turn back in and that you have a certain [TS]

  allowance and just fine [TS]

  like it's it's just so much easier [TS]

  there's there's so much less also like [TS]

  if you're kind of unsure about whether [TS]

  you want like one of the reasons i got a [TS]

  red car this time i'm not sure like [TS]

  having never owned a car that was a bold [TS]

  color before I wasn't sure I would like [TS]

  it and but you know i'm not buying this [TS]

  car for ten years i'm leaving this car [TS]

  for three years so i can take a bit of a [TS]

  risk [TS]

  same thing with the m5 I wasn't sure if [TS]

  I if I could deal with a [TS]

  rear-wheel-drive car in a place that has [TS]

  winters and if i was buying a car for [TS]

  ten years i'm not sure i would take that [TS]

  risk but because it was only at least I [TS]

  knew that it was you know a much shorter [TS]

  commitment and so I did it and it worked [TS]

  out great now I have my red car that's [TS]

  working out great like so I you're able [TS]

  to take more risks with with the choices [TS]

  you make because it isn't a long-term [TS]

  commitment and the psychology is so much [TS]

  more relaxed because you know it's just [TS]

  a lease and the time you're giving it up [TS]

  is fixed the value that you're going to [TS]

  get it fixed [TS]

  what you're paying every month is fixed [TS]

  and at the end you just repeat you order [TS]

  something else and process repeats and [TS]

  you can you know every three years you [TS]

  have a chance to stop doing that if you [TS]

  want to but you know honestly once you [TS]

  start asking hard to stop because it's [TS]

  really really nice because he doesn't [TS]

  want a three-year stand with a car he's [TS]

  looking for a long-term relationship [TS]

  anything you can also get 45 year leases [TS]

  I I just don't know if anybody really [TS]

  does but you can but every every choice [TS]

  you have for that in front of you [TS]

  you're going to have to make some kind [TS]

  of major compromise on what you would [TS]

  ideally want write it no matter what [TS]

  choice you have in front of you you have [TS]

  to compromise on something in it yet [TS]

  like one big compromise to avoid making [TS]

  a whole bunch of other smaller ones if [TS]

  you choose leasing as that compromise to [TS]

  make value you know you you object to [TS]

  leasing seems like mostly a moral [TS]

  standpoint you know it's it's less about [TS]

  like whether you can afford more that [TS]

  you just don't like the idea of it [TS]

  if you can compromise on that everything [TS]

  else you can get exactly what you want [TS]

  yeah sort of i mean i guess that's true [TS]

  but the only the only things that would [TS]

  give me access to really is BMWs and I [TS]

  could just buy used one or a Cadillac [TS]

  and I can i I don't think I want a [TS]

  Cadillac so I won't let you get the [TS]

  Cadillac well I mean I guess what I'm [TS]

  saying is I don't know what real at [TS]

  leasing doesn't really open any doors I [TS]

  don't think that aren't already in front [TS]

  of me it just solves the maintenance [TS]

  problem because the everything will be [TS]

  on the I will forever be under warranty [TS]

  what's next marker you're gonna [TS]

  recommend a three-year marriage yeah [TS]

  that's just what you're suggesting to do [TS]

  our owners that's right whatever your [TS]

  marriages and five-year marriage that's [TS]

  great [TS]

  try it like now that's not you don't [TS]

  understand the relationship between him [TS]

  and his car know you enjoyed you are [TS]

  doing what are my other recommended [TS]

  plans [TS]

  not quite i would recommend if you're [TS]

  gonna do like the maximize value plan i [TS]

  would recommend buying a HS off lease [TS]

  toyota or honda and then owning that [TS]

  into the ground [TS]

  you're doing it all you're doing almost [TS]

  that which is by a new Honda and went [TS]

  into the ground like that is also a [TS]

  totally valid way to do it you know I [TS]

  can't do the leases for two reasons one [TS]

  try finding a stick shift undercard [TS]

  Delise it's hard enough to find someone [TS]

  who will sell you one from the factory [TS]

  they do not exist and to i have a new [TS]

  car [TS]

  I like having a brand-new car brand-new [TS]

  cars are awesome and together with the [TS]

  least do it right [TS]

  brand-spanking-new that's one of the [TS]

  great things in life is getting a new [TS]

  car I would never go that for like a [TS]

  one-year-old i will eat the 5k that I in [TS]

  depreciation that's very surprising to [TS]

  me who doesn't like a new car come on i [TS]

  love in your heart but so my perfect [TS]

  scenario like if I could just invent the [TS]

  perfect scenario i would get like a one [TS]

  or two-year old car that was exactly the [TS]

  build i wanted that we used by to farm [TS]

  and driven 500 miles [TS]

  yeah exactly that's true it and that's [TS]

  into truth be told that was my BMW now [TS]

  he had been driven many many miles but [TS]

  but the only way those miles could have [TS]

  been accrued in the time and in which [TS]

  the first owner had it was on the [TS]

  highway and so on paper might be my car [TS]

  was perfect it was a relatively decent [TS]

  turns out he was a mailman additional I [TS]

  think that my understanding was he was [TS]

  actually insurance stopping gonna stop [TS]

  and go and what happens happens [TS]

  could be but now my understanding was he [TS]

  was an insurance like agents or [TS]

  something like that but we will problem [TS]

  market will probably in just 25 we cut [TS]

  this from the show but as you guys were [TS]

  talking I went to auto trader and [TS]

  quickly amassed the list of makes that [TS]

  are reasonably easily available to me in [TS]

  the united states and i will run through [TS]

  them alphabetically so everyone will [TS]

  know the options in front of me and the [TS]

  answer is that there are almost none [TS]

  acura accurate does not believe in a [TS]

  stick shift anymore [TS]

  alpha [TS]

  alpha [TS]

  although no sticks done any other [TS]

  questions a couple other quick notes [TS]

  first of all porsche is theoretically an [TS]

  option which I had forgotten but a it's [TS]

  way too expensive be have you seen the [TS]

  Panamera it's freaking hideous as though [TS]

  if there's no forward our sticks the [TS]

  Panamera doesn't come to stick doesn't [TS]

  how you know now that you say that [TS]

  you're probably right [TS]

  secondly in cat in this individual is [TS]

  not the only person who said this but [TS]

  you're too picky [TS]

  well thank you this is what i want i [TS]

  don't know this is what i want i am [TS]

  allowed to be picky from spending [TS]

  between 20 and 80 thousand dollars i am [TS]

  allowed to be picky so sorry tough [TS]

  nuggies i would probably get a used go [TS]

  far and then as I thought more about it [TS]

  i thought you know what I don't know if [TS]

  it's really even worth just trading this [TS]

  in because why would i spend 3242 if [TS]

  Marco has his way $80,000 on a new car [TS]

  when I can just continue to feed my car [TS]

  from time to time and just call today [TS]

  and so what I think i'm going to do is [TS]

  just suck it up and deal with the fact [TS]

  that my car is always going to be in [TS]

  this job cases BMW is my macpro yeah [TS]

  actually you're right and that makes me [TS]

  absolutely sick just go to you see if [TS]

  they can send your new water pump [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs every time it does a [TS]

  little send you another one just the [TS]

  patient the old one back its fine [TS]

  nobody lied i was morally found it last [TS]

  week but as I got thinking about it as [TS]

  like actually got a couple of offers of [TS]

  one person I know in one like friend of [TS]

  a listener that had said oh I'm getting [TS]

  an m2 soon and I have a golf r that i'm [TS]

  looking to unload and we started lightly [TS]

  negotiating on it and then I thought to [TS]

  myself I don't know about this like I [TS]

  haven't told this individual one way or [TS]

  the other but a by current thinking [TS]

  sitting here now is why would I throw [TS]

  thirty to forty thousand dollars at a [TS]

  problem that's happening every few [TS]

  months for $1,000 like that doesn't [TS]

  really fix my problem but the privilege [TS]

  of driving around volkswagen rabbit [TS]

  right and I all i'm doing is being a [TS]

  petulant child at that point if you [TS]

  didn't already have a really nice 335 [TS]

  like if you were starting from nothing [TS]

  that'd be another story but because you [TS]

  already have something that is good [TS]

  yes it is a maintenance headache but if [TS]

  you're looking at pure value for the [TS]

  money [TS]

  maintaining a BMW is going to hurt your [TS]

  soul but it will actually be cheaper [TS]

  right and that's the thing is that my [TS]

  soul is damaged but I know my wallet is [TS]

  thanking me [TS]

  probably go far like aside from the [TS]

  whole rabbit thing that right there are [TS]

  two critical problems with the Gulf our [TS]

  number-one the trunk really isn't that [TS]

  big with the seats up it's not tiny but [TS]

  it's not that big [TS]

  secondly and this is going to sound [TS]

  silly and this is just getting even [TS]

  deeper into the oh you're so freakin [TS]

  picky which is accurate their [TS]

  conversations and so they don't worry [TS]

  about it [TS]

  yeah there's no sunroof and I freaking [TS]

  love some roofs i love them i use mine [TS]

  constantly even at temperatures where I [TS]

  probably shouldn't and the Gulf are [TS]

  unavailable with a sunroof yeah that [TS]

  that honestly changes a car dramatically [TS]

  like what if you want if your son refers [TS]

  and I am to understand if you're sort of [TS]

  person and you don't have one [TS]

  it matters a lot yeah so in summary that [TS]

  so what I'm backing myself into is even [TS]

  the Golf R which is very close on paper [TS]

  has the small issue of trunk and thus [TS]

  medium-sized issue sunroof the 80s or [TS]

  ats-v is probably what I want is too [TS]

  damn expensive the focus like I said [TS]

  it's either front-wheel drive or [TS]

  all-wheel drive and i look like i am 18 [TS]

  the chevy SS is really the right east [TS]

  answer except the entertainment would [TS]

  murder me and now they're not making [TS]

  them anymore and so really the problem I [TS]

  have is that either i need to drive an [TS]

  a4 and realize it's not that bad or I [TS]

  just suck it up because BMWs the only [TS]

  manufacturer like I've backed myself [TS]

  back into BMW and all this whole [TS]

  endeavor was to get myself away from BMW [TS]

  and now of just backed myself into the [TS]

  only option really God's BMW look [TS]

  sometimes you get it right the first [TS]

  time [TS]

  yeah thank God over there and everything [TS]

  else message [TS]

  yeah except except for the car front [TS]

  maybe not the color [TS]

  what do you think last longer your car [TS]

  or johns mac pro my car but not by a lot [TS]

  you've got a long way to go to catch up [TS]

  to my you only have a thing for a couple [TS]

  years [TS]

  no you're saying I think Marco saying [TS]

  what's getting replaced first yeah [TS]

  oh my mac programs either this this this [TS]

  summer I'm getting something know [TS]

  whether this thing breaks or not [TS]

  you say that now i don't believe that [TS]

  i'm just going to get an imac like a [TS]

  worst-case scenario of the introduce no [TS]

  new max at the end of this year i will [TS]

  just get an imac because danger 0 new [TS]

  max that means like well forget about [TS]

  the mac pro forget about my macpro [TS]

  whatever just get a five-year imac like [TS]

  I can take a hint [TS]

  there's probably gonna be a new 5k imac [TS]

  like in a few weeks [TS]

  I'm not getting that one right exactly [TS]

  and so this summer you it's gonna be [TS]

  like a four-month old imac in the lineup [TS]

  you're not going to buy a four-month old [TS]

  imac they're gonna do something w SI [TS]

  unit for something is not introducing a [TS]

  macpro that will be a signal to be like [TS]

  guess what it's not gonna happen so just [TS]

  give it up like okay I