The Talk Show

182: ‘AAA Podcast’, With Special Guest Marco Arment

 

  I just kind of feel like like I just [TS]

  discovered fills in San Francisco once [TS]

  last year and I'm probably never gonna [TS]

  go there again I guess what I looked on [TS]

  the map and there is a philsie within a [TS]

  few blocks of the san jose convention [TS]

  center [TS]

  oh yeah alright yeah ok hydrogen-ion [TS]

  there a lot it's like not like across [TS]

  the street but it's probably about as [TS]

  close as the one the just couple blocks [TS]

  as we go to get place that's AII do [TS]

  wonder how different the culture of sand [TS]

  I've never been to San Jose like I've [TS]

  been only and only a handful of times in [TS]

  Silicon Valley at all and and so San [TS]

  Jose is is even less familiar to me than [TS]

  the rest of it and but you've got to a [TS]

  couple events here in there right yeah [TS]

  including the only time I ever set foot [TS]

  and in San Jose was the 2012 in a [TS]

  October event so isn't the one a month [TS]

  after the big iphone event they did I [TS]

  iPads and I think that was when the [TS]

  current form factor of the imac debuted [TS]

  with the inside not yet retina of course [TS]

  yeah and was the last public event Apple [TS]

  held while Scott Forstall was was an [TS]

  executive yeah I was that was I remember [TS]

  so I still remember like the day that [TS]

  that he was officially announced as [TS]

  being out we were actually Tiffany [TS]

  vacation seattle i was like in this [TS]

  weird clothing store with her like [TS]

  killing time my phone I'm trying to [TS]

  catch up on what the heck just happened [TS]

  everyone was exploding about it's pretty [TS]

  cool [TS]

  yeah I don't know it so speaking of our [TS]

  of our imax though I have a bone to pick [TS]

  with you about that I believe that that [TS]

  you and I have the same 2014 first and [TS]

  5k imac correct does yours have problems [TS]

  the image retention know you're lucky [TS]

  well either that or rarely I don't see [TS]

  it it's possible that maybe I you know [TS]

  maybe if my eyes were what they used to [TS]

  be i would see it but it doesn't seem [TS]

  like yours here's why here's why you [TS]

  would see in particular because the the [TS]

  most commonplace I see it this this [TS]

  started happening over the last few [TS]

  months [TS]

  and and it's I know you're gonna say [TS]

  yeah exactly just happened over the last [TS]

  few months and it's getting worse [TS]

  quickly and so what happens is I'm not [TS]

  talking about burning like I'm plasma [TS]

  TVs right you have a something burning [TS]

  forever talking about LCD image [TS]

  retention where basically you you kind [TS]

  of see like the ghost image of what was [TS]

  there before for a few minutes and i can [TS]

  get like fades over like a minute or two [TS]

  so if you have something high-contrast [TS]

  up for five or ten minutes say so for [TS]

  instance when your podcasting and you [TS]

  have a couple windows up there might [TS]

  have like text no to skype window or [TS]

  whatever else and then you go to your [TS]

  web browser and you load a dark grey [TS]

  website then you will see the shadows of [TS]

  your formerly in those spots [TS]

  black-and-white windows you will see [TS]

  those very clearly against the gray [TS]

  background of the website you're looking [TS]

  at [TS]

  yeah it's ok for avi almost always gets [TS]

  me 4a to 5a exactly [TS]

  I on my previous display and it was [TS]

  ancient I I used to talk about in the [TS]

  podcast but before getting this this [TS]

  this 5k imac what was that like two and [TS]

  a half years ago now i guess yeah i was [TS]

  using a 20 inch apple cinema display not [TS]

  24-inch 20-inch from Cochise must be [TS]

  like 2000-2002 or something I mean I [TS]

  don't know it was really maybe it wasn't [TS]

  quite that old but it was really pretty [TS]

  old and I was sort of in a Syracuse [TS]

  situation where I it was long past the [TS]

  point where I could have easily afforded [TS]

  to replace it and they're all sorts of [TS]

  good options i could have bought but I [TS]

  was sort of hoping for something ratna [TS]

  for ever and ever and ever and so I just [TS]

  kept putting it off it's like there's no [TS]

  way I'm spending a thousand dollars on [TS]

  an Apple even no matter how you know I [TS]

  guess they were 30 inch for a while then [TS]

  they went to 27 inch but I just didn't [TS]

  feel like buying it got to have retina [TS]

  knowing that retinol would come out any [TS]

  year now for Morrison years and years so [TS]

  my i was using and that display after it [TS]

  must have been over had to be at least [TS]

  10 years old and I used it every day had [TS]

  terrible image retention and i know you [TS]

  exactly where you're going because my [TS]

  website was the nipple [TS]

  open it really is like most if you're [TS]

  dealing with other black-and-white [TS]

  windows you don't really see it as often [TS]

  but when you when you've had something [TS]

  black and white up for a while and then [TS]

  you switch to a large expanse of grey [TS]

  you see it very clearly and you and my [TS]

  initial thought is always I didn't [TS]

  realize that Safari was translucent [TS]

  exactly like I I always I always think [TS]

  it's like window translucency and I'm [TS]

  like oh that's that's a weird design [TS]

  decision [TS]

  oh wait that isn't a design is right [TS]

  when i first encountered it that's [TS]

  exactly what I thought is I thought that [TS]

  maybe at some point I did hit some kind [TS]

  of weird i died i diddled something in [TS]

  the terminal with defaults write write [TS]

  trying to let you know calm calm down [TS]

  apple start safari / you know their [TS]

  space translucency equals 91 or [TS]

  something like that right exactly [TS]

  because that's exactly what I like [TS]

  sorry about that but now now that now [TS]

  it's an imax oh and it's my main [TS]

  computer and system attack [TS]

  I don't want to send this thing in for [TS]

  repair not using my main computer for [TS]

  like two weeks or however long it takes [TS]

  to get it actually fixed like [TS]

  two-and-a-half years under even daily [TS]

  seems like too soon [TS]

  honestly yeah I I don't like and it's [TS]

  like Oh am I gonna get one that has used [TS]

  the same problem are they [TS]

  I'm always worried that not even gonna [TS]

  believe me or that or that i can replace [TS]

  it because they don't think they don't [TS]

  think it's bad enough you know even [TS]

  though i don't mean there's not i don't [TS]

  have a lot of basis for those feelings [TS]

  it's just like it's such a it's such a [TS]

  hassle to send away my main computer for [TS]

  repair [TS]

  especially the larger get a laptop i [TS]

  could bring into a genius bar maybe have [TS]

  something faster maybe but like because [TS]

  it's such an ordeal haul this thing [TS]

  anywhere and ship it anywhere and i [TS]

  don't know i don't like my current plan [TS]

  is to just hope that they do something [TS]

  with like an imac pro or a mac pro [TS]

  sometime this year before my applecare [TS]

  runs out in october and then i can just [TS]

  buy the new one [TS]

  send this in for repair and then when i [TS]

  get back from repair sell it if you've [TS]

  got application should definitely do it [TS]

  although you have to be without it but [TS]

  it's a pain yeah it's like I don't want [TS]

  to switch to my new crappy keyboard [TS]

  touch bar you know I haven't I haven't [TS]

  bought applecare since 1991 the only [TS]

  reason I bought it on this and and i'm [TS]

  with you most of the time you learned [TS]

  the bottom this is that apple care that [TS]

  the pricing is based on these tears of [TS]

  the product they apply to a fourteen [TS]

  hundred dollar imac has the same apple [TS]

  care costs as a 4500 are fully loaded [TS]

  one right and so I was buying the very [TS]

  first generation of a new thing of the [TS]

  5k and so I thought you know what it was [TS]

  only like 200 bucks or something was it [TS]

  was not a lot of money for what was [TS]

  something like a 4400 all configurations [TS]

  because i got like really maxed out [TS]

  because my main computer and I figured [TS]

  you know at the ratio their pay so i [TS]

  don't really get it for anything else [TS]

  but in in cases where like you're buying [TS]

  early maxed-out configure something it [TS]

  often does pay off because it's such a [TS]

  low relative cost i think we might have [TS]

  literally the same machine i know i'm [TS]

  actually do you know I max out the ram [TS]

  32 gigs and i would if i could you have [TS]

  a terabyte right i think i have a [TS]

  terabyte drive because I don't know why [TS]

  wouldn't you want it because it's the [TS]

  only drive i keep attachments to the [TS]

  time actually don't even know that's [TS]

  that's something but wow it's got to be [TS]

  a terabyte I don't see how i would be [TS]

  able to function if it wasn't the [TS]

  terabyte and then what I get the 4 [TS]

  gigahertz intel core i7 yep [TS]

  ya think ya enjoy enjoy a wonderful [TS]

  screen you will know quickly if it ever [TS]

  becomes a problem [TS]

  yes iiiir my dr 999 point three eight [TS]

  gigabytes just bullshit i ripped off you [TS]

  get the full terabyte yeah I boy I just [TS]

  hope i get i hope i can fix this easily [TS]

  I don't know ATP tipster said that this [TS]

  was a problem with that with the one [TS]

  that we have the 2014 but they fixed it [TS]

  for the 2015 model and just still the [TS]

  current model but i guess i can have new [TS]

  ones like in marks or whatever who knows [TS]

  with yeah we can get to march and we [TS]

  have to have to get to that to Jason [TS]

  kind of sounds like apples gonna release [TS]

  like 15 things in marks like that's [TS]

  that's kind of what like all the rumors [TS]

  are pointing to like for ipads new imacs [TS]

  new 12-inch MacBook one you know it's [TS]

  like and new watch bands and who knows [TS]

  what on the software side you know new [TS]

  ipad stuff maybe I mean there's like [TS]

  that there is such a giant list of [TS]

  things that rumor people expect to be [TS]

  launched in march it's kind of [TS]

  ridiculous [TS]

  you see this i don't have been into link [TS]

  to it and I haven't because I forget why [TS]

  i think it might be because i can't find [TS]

  the guys name and I keep you and I ran [TS]

  into the same thing with somebody on [TS]

  Twitter recently the guy [TS]

  omd or something like that or yeah you [TS]

  didn't he like didn't have his name [TS]

  anywhere in any of the stuff we both [TS]

  want to link to a man named you know [TS]

  they like nice and right like i always [TS]

  say i think he didn't he responded sound [TS]

  like he didn't want to be named Lucy [TS]

  evenly first name was the hardest and he [TS]

  said something like he's building this [TS]

  brand on AMD or something like that and [TS]

  it's it's harder for me to link to [TS]

  somebody who is anonymous and idea that [TS]

  really gets me and I had to say it to [TS]

  you but it it's true is it was often it [TS]

  seems like I link a lot less frequently [TS]

  anymore to people who have tumblr blogs [TS]

  just anecdotally but back when tumblr [TS]

  was sort of at its peak as a blogging [TS]

  platform like I'm not saying that tumblr [TS]

  is is in decline but i think it's in [TS]

  decline for the sort of blogging that i [TS]

  tend to link to return fireball an awful [TS]

  lot of of tumblr sites don't have that [TS]

  the person's real name on it it's just [TS]

  their their tumblr handle and that was [TS]

  always a big hassle for me and have to [TS]

  like figure out what their twitter name [TS]

  was and go to their twitter page and [TS]

  find a real name from there like it [TS]

  didn't even seem like it was people who [TS]

  are trying to hide their name it's just [TS]

  sort of idiomatic for tumblr but anyway [TS]

  there's this site here that was it [TS]

  actually was actually designed that way [TS]

  like we we meant it to be like as in and [TS]

  they like the same way that like one [TS]

  account could have multiple blogs right [TS]

  and that the there would be no way to [TS]

  tell unless you put it there which blogs [TS]

  belong to which account arrives like you [TS]

  know if it was very easy to create an [TS]

  anonymous things that weren't tied to [TS]

  your main identity and that was very [TS]

  much intentional because like everything [TS]

  else the time like to keep my like we [TS]

  made tumblr as kind of a response to [TS]

  myspace and Facebook and and like the [TS]

  big social networks that work that were [TS]

  big when we started in 2006 and so [TS]

  Twitter wasn't really and Twitter exist [TS]

  if it wasn't big so that was really a [TS]

  response to those that were all about [TS]

  getting your real name and putting all [TS]

  your stuff out in public under your real [TS]

  name and you know it a lot of people [TS]

  can't or won't give their real name for [TS]

  a lot of stuff they want to do online [TS]

  and so you you enable a lot more like [TS]

  creativity and different types of uses [TS]

  if you if you allow people to be [TS]

  anonymous so that was kind of that was [TS]

  kinda like the ethos from the beginning [TS]

  of like you can make a different blog [TS]

  it's no risk it's not gonna like you [TS]

  know look bad upon you this is before [TS]

  all the hate crap that we have today I [TS]

  think it might be a little bit different [TS]

  calculation their way back then you know [TS]

  most of the haight was confined to these [TS]

  French forms and stuff and they weren't [TS]

  really on tumblr [TS]

  I don't even know they are now I don't [TS]

  think they are but regardless of the [TS]

  idea of getting like anonymous identity [TS]

  out there very very easily was quite a [TS]

  positive thing in 2006 anyway I just [TS]

  saying that like it's to a guy named [TS]

  Thomas for Shirin at very short dot-com [TS]

  here's a Twitter link so i got his name [TS]

  from there but anyway he is an [TS]

  interesting speculation hear that and it [TS]

  it's purely his guess it doesn't see [TS]

  he's not claiming any sort of sources [TS]

  but what he's saying is that when Apple [TS]

  made standalone displays they tend to [TS]

  sell them for a long time the 27th LED [TS]

  display was on sale for three years the [TS]

  27-inch Thunderbolt Display was on sale [TS]

  for five years I guess they're still [TS]

  selling it for today today they still [TS]

  sell that right [TS]

  I don't even know no no no they just you [TS]

  know like a year and a half ago so you [TS]

  can't even buy an outdated apple display [TS]

  at this point no like that mean you [TS]

  might go to find somebody left in stock [TS]

  but happy to have someone new for a [TS]

  while so here's his gas is his gas is [TS]

  the that Apple didn't want to release a [TS]

  5k standalone cinema display back in [TS]

  October when they did all the new [TS]

  macbooks that could use them because [TS]

  they weren't yet ready to sell one with [TS]

  true tone because they don't have true [TS]

  tone in the imac either none of the [TS]

  desktop max2 and so is he says here is [TS]

  conclusion if you were Apple what would [TS]

  you choose to do release and I an apple [TS]

  5k cinema display in 2016 and then sell [TS]

  it for a few years unchanged without [TS]

  true tone or push the LG display in 2016 [TS]

  as a stopgap and release an apple 5k [TS]

  true tone display some time in 2017 so I [TS]

  that is anybody who's still holding on [TS]

  to a thread of hope that Apple hasn't [TS]

  abandoned the standalone display game [TS]

  which I would not bet I [TS]

  of suspect that they are done but this [TS]

  there's this there's a wee bit of sense [TS]

  here in my opinion I mean so the thing [TS]

  about like you know they they tend to [TS]

  have these displays the last for a [TS]

  certain amount of time throw that right [TS]

  out doesn't matter right doesn't it [TS]

  doesn't matter how long things have been [TS]

  out like five years they did this is a [TS]

  very small sample size Apple does not [TS]

  artificially hold things back simply [TS]

  because the last one is only three years [TS]

  old instead of four years old I like [TS]

  that's that's it's this is too small the [TS]

  correlation to matter and that's not how [TS]

  they really work [TS]

  I think the only question here is [TS]

  whether whether we believe that they [TS]

  would hold back this display and go [TS]

  through the kind of a assume the LG [TS]

  Display was perfect which it isn't but [TS]

  assuming LG Display was perfect [TS]

  they still took a big PR hit in order to [TS]

  push that as this as the solution and to [TS]

  have the idea out there floating [TS]

  unchallenged for months that and still [TS]

  so far that they are out of this display [TS]

  business [TS]

  yeah but what if they had no choice that [TS]

  more but it is that is that more likely [TS]

  then them wanting to save true tone for [TS]

  the imac they don't sell them anytime [TS]

  access whole lot more laptops it would [TS]

  not surprise me if when the Thunderbolt [TS]

  Display that they just read that when [TS]

  they discontinued recently that one when [TS]

  it was new it wouldn't surprise me if [TS]

  that outsold the imac when it was new it [TS]

  but it might not but they sell a lot of [TS]

  laptops and cell a lot of these displays [TS]

  for laptops for their laptops and so I i [TS]

  don't see them holding back something [TS]

  that their customers very clearly want [TS]

  replacing a product that was incredibly [TS]

  out of date only for the purpose of one [TS]

  of its really minor features like [TS]

  jumping ahead of the imac getting that [TS]

  same feature is that it doesn't seem [TS]

  like that would be important enough to [TS]

  them to justify the downside of that [TS]

  strategy but if the original plan was [TS]

  like a year in advance or well over a [TS]

  year ago if they had hoped to also have [TS]

  5k imax at the end of 2016 2 with two [TS]

  tone and all things just maybe if that's [TS]

  plausible buy homes i'm not saying how [TS]

  likely it is but the whole thing seems [TS]

  plausible to me that it's some sort of [TS]

  engineering / supply chain [TS]

  screw up or you know maybe screw-up is [TS]

  too harsh of award but something didn't [TS]

  go according to plan and and that's [TS]

  where they are i don't know i still love [TS]

  it I brought it up the other week on [TS]

  this show and then there must be an [TS]

  awful lot of people who listen to my [TS]

  show who don't listen to ATP because its [TS]

  highest you might expect the best [TS]

  feedback I got was that the observation [TS]

  we got so I got so much email about [TS]

  ripping off Syracuse's observation from [TS]

  ATP which I did credit him with that [TS]

  what is a plan to do in your beautiful [TS]

  new campus stuff all arrays and it would [TS]

  supposedly has a more open floor plan [TS]

  where you'll see more of the your [TS]

  colleagues desks are they good i'm going [TS]

  to put one of these ugly LG monitors on [TS]

  every single one of these Johnny I've [TS]

  designed desks like Johnny I've is [TS]

  bottoming like often the woods you know [TS]

  nailing desks together out of like wood [TS]

  that comes from one special brand of [TS]

  tree that grows in northern Italy or [TS]

  something and they're gonna put ugly LG [TS]

  monitors on all these desks i mean [TS]

  that's that's also a good counter [TS]

  argument but i think it's it's just as [TS]

  likely that you could just say well [TS]

  there are there solutions just they're [TS]

  gonna give most engineers and stuff Matt [TS]

  like I'm actually get it it really does [TS]

  seem like a and again this could be [TS]

  blown into the water and apple releases [TS]

  a brand new mac pro I'm a pro whatever [TS]

  it is in in july but i think it's very [TS]

  unlikely i think that was gonna happen [TS]

  we would have a lot more than casual [TS]

  speculation about it by now the fact [TS]

  that there's nothing in the pipeline to [TS]

  suggest that's happening [TS]

  make me believe it's definitely had not [TS]

  happening this year if ever [TS]

  and so I really do think it's very clear [TS]

  that we all have wishful thinking that [TS]

  goes in a different direction but the [TS]

  reality is it's most likely that Apple [TS]

  really is out of the display business [TS]

  and the protest business and the mac [TS]

  mini business and is really just going [TS]

  to make the imac and macbook pro they're [TS]

  only computers going forward [TS]

  I've heard that I think I figure if I've [TS]

  talked about this i've heard that there [TS]

  is a new mac pro in the pipeline but [TS]

  that it is it sounds ridiculous but that [TS]

  it's effectively like in a slot where [TS]

  there's so many other machines whether [TS]

  their macs are other things that that [TS]

  are getting testing and like validation [TS]

  engineering [TS]

  no resources ahead of it there's no way [TS]

  it's gonna ship by WTC with sequins [TS]

  ridiculous but well yeah okay even if [TS]

  they I mean here's the thing most most [TS]

  people who feel bad about Apple because [TS]

  of the lack of mac pro updates at all [TS]

  they don't necessarily need to ship at [TS]

  WTC I think what would what would come a [TS]

  lot of fears my own included would just [TS]

  be like an acknowledgement and [TS]

  confirmation that something else is [TS]

  coming like just confirmation even if [TS]

  you want to like one of their like kind [TS]

  of BSE replies to the press like you [TS]

  know keep an eye out of this based on [TS]

  whatever else like something and Tim [TS]

  Cook's like little Q&A response to that [TS]

  internal Baltimore think of few months [TS]

  back that wasn't enough that was [TS]

  actually in fact making things worse i [TS]

  think my kind of implying that the imac [TS]

  was going to be going to get going [TS]

  forward I that's all we really want here [TS]

  but again i I just I it's what i want to [TS]

  be true i want there to be a new mac pro [TS]

  of some sort and if it's if it's shaped [TS]

  like an imac and it has a built-in 5k [TS]

  screen and it just has a xeon processor [TS]

  in it with like a thicker back for a [TS]

  bigger heatsink that's fine i'll take [TS]

  that actually sounds kind of nice to me [TS]

  it wouldn't be as ideal standalone [TS]

  because then i have the same problem i [TS]

  have now and get some attention after [TS]

  send the whole thing in but I take it [TS]

  it's better than nothing that'd be great [TS]

  yeah it leads to a nice matter leads [TS]

  with the weird situation that's again [TS]

  better than nothing if they made an imac [TS]

  pro and put is somehow put his Dion in [TS]

  there and solve the heat problems that [TS]

  would you know I say that technically [TS]

  possible the big guy i think i think [TS]

  it's possible although I talking to be [TS]

  tipster about this a little bit in our [TS]

  chat few weeks ago he pointed out that [TS]

  the logic board in the imac faces the [TS]

  wrong way to really make that happen [TS]

  like I think the cpu faces towards you [TS]

  when you're sitting at it and 222 [TS]

  drastically improve the heat capacity to [TS]

  be able to cool like a high-powered the [TS]

  on-chip to make it more Mac Pro Class [TS]

  processing power you need to flip the [TS]

  whole logic board around we should kind [TS]

  of be like a redesign on level of a [TS]

  whole new imac generation the question [TS]

  is like what Apple really do that for [TS]

  this [TS]

  you know relatively low volume i mean i [TS]

  guess they design all case before but [TS]

  like it sure does seem like they [TS]

  couldn't possibly care less about [TS]

  keeping the mac pro updated in any [TS]

  reasonable fashion and so it really it [TS]

  is a pretty big question whether they [TS]

  would basically redesign the entire imac [TS]

  enclosure and a whole new computer just [TS]

  for this line that they haven't given [TS]

  two craps about 43 years it's a real [TS]

  mystery [TS]

  I think it's probably the imac prose is [TS]

  possible or that they'll sell it as a [TS]

  pro somehow i don't know but I i hope i [TS]

  wish for to be true but i just don't see [TS]

  it right but I there's gotta be a reason [TS]

  why they don't just stop selling the mac [TS]

  pro's there's some contingent within the [TS]

  company that's clearly hoping for new [TS]

  mac pro's otherwise that it would be it [TS]

  would be easier it would be easier and [TS]

  they did look less foolish if they had [TS]

  cancelled the mac pro like it lasts WWDC [TS]

  if they just said hey these midterms are [TS]

  so great it's you know it's all that you [TS]

  know the time for the standalone is gone [TS]

  whatever it would even people would [TS]

  disagree obviously and there'd be people [TS]

  who would be heartbroken in there be [TS]

  people who are furious but at least [TS]

  Apple wouldn't look foolish [TS]

  alright like yeah because they really [TS]

  looks bad now I get really like the [TS]

  situation now is is kind of egregiously [TS]

  back [TS]

  it's it's kind of a bear thing it's hard [TS]

  to believe it's really kind of hard to [TS]

  believe how old it is it really is and [TS]

  still my biggest regret is that I didn't [TS]

  ask Schiller about it on stage last year [TS]

  and I had the card I had it I had it on [TS]

  a card and I did not something you some [TS]

  people understand but I it it's so hard [TS]

  to keep that thing going live and it's [TS]

  it was my one and only regret from that [TS]

  whole show that the year before when [TS]

  shoulder was on the first time I had way [TS]

  more regrets afterwards and I felt like [TS]

  my myself criticism really helped and i [TS]

  did a better job last year but my one my [TS]

  right my 1r can't believe it and now it [TS]

  look at this we're already at the point [TS]

  where WWE has been announced again it [TS]

  still hasn't been answered [TS]

  and like the one reason why i put it at [TS]

  a lower priority at first and then [TS]

  towards the end when I was wrapping up I [TS]

  was like flipping through the cards i [TS]

  had left and it just didn't i didn't see [TS]

  that one which I'm you know I might have [TS]

  is like a last question but the reason I [TS]

  originally had it lower in the stack was [TS]

  I thought well they gotta do something [TS]

  September right [TS]

  hey but that like yeah and get them on [TS]

  the record now but it's only for the [TS]

  next you know two to three months so [TS]

  anyway I don't know [TS]

  oh and it's you know it's hard like when [TS]

  you're in a situation like what you're [TS]

  doing with the with these you know [TS]

  executive interviews like it's hard you [TS]

  know we got a little bit a little bit [TS]

  this for me when ATP i interviewed liner [TS]

  few weeks ago which was grand like like [TS]

  we had a couple people ask us afterwards [TS]

  like on Twitter and email and stuff like [TS]

  why did you ask him about the map [TS]

  oh you can ok that's yeah it's like a it [TS]

  even if he knew about macros stuff you [TS]

  can you know you're not going to answer [TS]

  that and be the guy who writes the [TS]

  compiler probably has no clue about what [TS]

  the mac pro hardware team is doing and [TS]

  what might or might not be released in [TS]

  the department like it's a big company [TS]

  like the dancerly anyway your contacts [TS]

  like interviewing chiller onstage like [TS]

  it's tough to know whether you should [TS]

  bust out a question like that which is [TS]

  slightly antagonizing and really put him [TS]

  on the spot it because like there's a [TS]

  very good chance that you would just get [TS]

  like a non-answer you know just like a [TS]

  nice PR friendly non-answer kind of like [TS]

  you know kind of tempo stubborn you know [TS]

  we really love desktop great desktops [TS]

  coming in the future and stuff like that [TS]

  and that's that's not very helpful and [TS]

  then you just like shifted the tone of [TS]

  the interview in a way that now they are [TS]

  on edge or yeah that's likely to go to [TS]

  you in the future so it's it's a tricky [TS]

  balance and so I don't I don't blame you [TS]

  front for asking that it wasn't because [TS]

  I thought it was known you for not [TS]

  asking if this yeah I this year it's [TS]

  guys did you ask the first question yes [TS]

  well have a watch on the end of the end [TS]

  up getting [TS]

  you know I don't know somebody has [TS]

  nothing to do with mac hardware [TS]

  something when i get this latter right [TS]

  like all of a sudden shoulder doesn't [TS]

  return my calls you know it's there now [TS]

  I i would have because there's ways to [TS]

  ask and I feel like that's something [TS]

  that I you know maybe why I've had [TS]

  gotten to this position where I can do [TS]

  this is where i can ask the question but [TS]

  do it in a way that's not a [TS]

  confrontational you know I mean that [TS]

  framing I would have used his look this [TS]

  audience in particular it is largely [TS]

  comprised of people who use xcode which [TS]

  is one of the apps where it you know [TS]

  extra see every better cpu power can [TS]

  really help at times you know and oh [TS]

  yeah and you know we're wearing this [TS]

  transition moving towards from [TS]

  objective-c the Swift and Swift I I [TS]

  think it's fair to say is more taxing on [TS]

  the comp on the cpu and objective-c it [TS]

  seems like the Swift compilers you know [TS]

  you can you can write swift code that [TS]

  takes a lot longer to compile but [TS]

  whatever it certainly is an easy to [TS]

  compile and there's a just a general [TS]

  sentiment that apples apples priorities [TS]

  for pro hardware in general are lower [TS]

  than they used to be you know the back [TS]

  pro is I don't whatever I want 900 days [TS]

  old at this time after an incredibly [TS]

  splashy debut you know what the heck is [TS]

  going on here [TS]

  I don't think that Woods is like making [TS]

  you know something i'm putting on the [TS]

  spot and it's easy can easily say and [TS]

  maybe that's all we would have said is [TS]

  hey you know we we love you guys we got [TS]

  you but you know I could you know you [TS]

  know I can't talk about future stuff I [TS]

  didn't say that and then that's the end [TS]

  of its you know so it's possible but at [TS]

  least I would have asked ya anyway [TS]

  there's always there's always future [TS]

  executive podcast interviews live at [TS]

  everybody I love the liner interview by [TS]

  the way I don't hide it was really an [TS]

  especially for a show that almost never [TS]

  does interviews I mean that you guys [TS]

  have never at that there was one a long [TS]

  time ago or no I guess you guys swapped [TS]

  you guys swapped with another show [TS]

  yeah we had John trade spots with [TS]

  christina warren right for one episode [TS]

  which actually turned out really nice [TS]

  but it wasn't really an interview show [TS]

  just like she just brings another host [TS]

  our show for that episode right [TS]

  and I thought that for a show that has [TS]

  an established rhythm between the three [TS]

  of you in which really none of it is [TS]

  really interview style and there's an [TS]

  incredible comfort level between your [TS]

  personalities to have somebody new on [TS]

  and do a three-way interview where each [TS]

  all three of you asked good questions [TS]

  that was really impressive because it's [TS]

  hard to do because it was a really [TS]

  different show [TS]

  yeah that's like office instead of [TS]

  driving a car you're here riding [TS]

  bicycles or something but yeah it was a [TS]

  lot of fun and Chris was he made it easy [TS]

  on us like he wasn't like a prima donna [TS]

  about anything and you know just really [TS]

  easy to work with and no super nice guy [TS]

  that was a lot of fun that is [TS]

  it's you know it it's you know it's [TS]

  obviously not true from top to bottom [TS]

  but it is generally true that Apple [TS]

  tends to attract very nice people there [TS]

  are [TS]

  yeah you know I mean federer is a great [TS]

  example where you know I don't know what [TS]

  he's like in real personal life but you [TS]

  know like backstage and stuff like that [TS]

  and when you see him at WTC and and [TS]

  people come up and and you know just [TS]

  random attendees are like hey can I get [TS]

  a selfie or whatever he stops and talks [TS]

  for you know five minutes with them and [TS]

  asks what they're doing heat he comes [TS]

  across like talking to a group of five [TS]

  you know first time at WWDC at WWDC [TS]

  attendees wearing the WWDC jacket he [TS]

  comes across exactly the same demeanor [TS]

  that he has on stage so like that [TS]

  affection that people seem to have for [TS]

  him it's true that seems to be his [TS]

  personality and Latin is exactly that [TS]

  type of personalities is you know just [TS]

  just a nice guy [TS]

  yeah whatever they tell you about last [TS]

  year WC when i visited apples and [TS]

  Facebook's campuses in the same day yeah [TS]

  it's all sort of blurs together i [TS]

  remember you doing it but I don't [TS]

  remember what the details really [TS]

  interesting like so you know you and in [TS]

  in both cases like what you know the [TS]

  mean and Casey a couple of their friends [TS]

  we just had like but we had like a [TS]

  French company that wanted like just you [TS]

  know give us like quick tour let us and [TS]

  that was around stopped at an apple [TS]

  I only saw like you know the the you [TS]

  know center courtyard and the and caffe [TS]

  macs because you know you can't bring [TS]

  people into the building's really Becker [TS]

  from yeah exactly so I didn't see I [TS]

  didn't see any actual offices but I i [TS]

  was able to see like the courtyard and [TS]

  hang out and have lunch everybody there [TS]

  and and we had lunch with something like [TS]

  15 people this giant table and so I got [TS]

  to meet a lot of people there and hang [TS]

  out for a game at a time and they're [TS]

  pretty coffee and apple even affymax [TS]

  gotta say and and you know kind of get a [TS]

  feel for the vibe of the campus even I [TS]

  didn't see any offices and then like [TS]

  couple hours later we went to facebook [TS]

  and I'd never been to either of these [TS]

  campuses before i had been to the apple [TS]

  retail store but I've never gone like [TS]

  through the doors into the courtyard and [TS]

  I'm actually not sure I was allowed to [TS]

  they have some kind of weird rules about [TS]

  bloggers but i think im just under like [TS]

  I'm I'm not really officially apple [TS]

  press any capacity i never have been and [TS]

  so I think that's why it wasn't a [TS]

  problem that i was there like I had a [TS]

  friend who tried to go who was apple [TS]

  press and was not allowed in the house [TS]

  was interesting but anyway so seeing [TS]

  apple and then seeing Facebook could not [TS]

  have been to more different company [TS]

  culture and environments at least [TS]

  visibly from these brief as I did and [TS]

  facebook i just felt horrible [TS]

  the whole time I was there like I felt [TS]

  kind of creeped out and intimidated by [TS]

  just how bizarre and kind of intense [TS]

  high energy but not high positive energy [TS]

  it seemed to be like just really like I [TS]

  don't know it's hard to explain i I [TS]

  really did I really got a very bad [TS]

  feeling from facebook a combination of [TS]

  like how does anybody get any work done [TS]

  here and where are the adults and [TS]

  and it just didn't feel good it felt [TS]

  like a dysfunctional workaholic culture [TS]

  that was hard to get any real work done [TS]

  in an environment that's kind of weirdly [TS]

  like we like trapped in youth forever [TS]

  bizarre bizarro college fantasy world [TS]

  and then Apple was so like calm and [TS]

  adult and just like nicely like low-key [TS]

  the people there were just like nice and [TS]

  comedy it kind of felt like oh this is [TS]

  where the adults work like this this is [TS]

  like where people come to actually do [TS]

  serious work and it was a much it just [TS]

  whatever the environment actually is I'm [TS]

  you know again because I've never worked [TS]

  at these companies and didn't even go [TS]

  inside the office at Apple it's hard for [TS]

  me to really say this but it just felt [TS]

  like the little tiny windows into these [TS]

  cultures I saw really just seemed like [TS]

  Apple was the place where like the nice [TS]

  mature adults go to work I i could see [TS]

  that I I don't know if you'd get it [TS]

  definitely seems like people who go to [TS]

  apple and I mean it's you know company [TS]

  cultures attract like-minded people you [TS]

  know but it does seem to me like in [TS]

  general like when I've been there people [TS]

  know how to turn it off and you know [TS]

  that when you're going to lunch and are [TS]

  going to have lunch with a friend there [TS]

  their they're just having lunch with a [TS]

  friend you know right yeah get back up [TS]

  to speed when they get back to work or [TS]

  whatever and that's all you want thing [TS]

  like I I don't hear a lot of stories [TS]

  about Facebook and Apple stealing talent [TS]

  from each other and maybe because i [TS]

  don't really pay attention but I tell [TS]

  you one thing seems like both those [TS]

  places i can't imagine that anybody who [TS]

  works for one would want to work for the [TS]

  other in either direction like I don't [TS]

  think they're competing for the same [TS]

  people at all [TS]

  yeah I thought I've never really heard [TS]

  that either I mean obviously at a [TS]

  certain level there's probably some like [TS]

  maybe it like a sysadmin or something [TS]

  like that but and you know what there [TS]

  was that one team at Facebook that was [TS]

  largely poached from apple but now [TS]

  they're all dispersed right they're gone [TS]

  the mic designer the EAA bought a bunch [TS]

  of designer for a while and then I [TS]

  slowly eroded their sanity until they [TS]

  all quit right and they built a very [TS]

  apple-like beautiful system and custom [TS]

  tools to support it with facebook paper [TS]

  right [TS]

  the weather was just paper facebook [TS]

  paperwork [TS]

  what are the names they stole it I fine [TS]

  well but you know I mean that it's if it [TS]

  fits [TS]

  that's a tough call because the paper [TS]

  app was the other paper at the one that [TS]

  you drawn was their first but it is it's [TS]

  the risk you take when you [TS]

  yeah regular and a plain words your apt [TS]

  name you know it seemed like for a while [TS]

  they're like Facebook was just gobbling [TS]

  up as much design talent is there food [TS]

  at about the same time that Google was [TS]

  gobbling up as much email town as they [TS]

  could and it seems like both of those of [TS]

  your kind of fizzled and faded over the [TS]

  last year so I haven't heard anything [TS]

  about them recently i think in broad [TS]

  terms what happened was that there was a [TS]

  period where Zuckerberg I think it [TS]

  coincides with because you know if [TS]

  there's one thing i don't i don't get [TS]

  facebook I've never signed up for it and [TS]

  so i'm not i get it does feel foreign to [TS]

  me feel like studying a foreign country [TS]

  but from my observations it is clear it [TS]

  did I don't think too many questions [TS]

  that Zuckerberg has a tremendous gift [TS]

  for changing his mind [TS]

  people often said that about Steve Jobs [TS]

  Tim Cook is often money talks about [TS]

  working with steve jobs like usually [TS]

  just talks about him on a personal level [TS]

  but if you can get i'm talking about [TS]

  working his you know tim cook it tells [TS]

  stories about is absolutely amazing [TS]

  ability to change his mind and but the [TS]

  you know the Steve Jobs style is that [TS]

  when he comes in with his mind change [TS]

  the axis who is this is opinion online [TS]

  and I think Bill Gates had some of that [TS]

  too right like what Bill Gates famously [TS]

  that like Microsoft was building this [TS]

  early nineties strategy to sort of do [TS]

  their own custom stuff for connecting [TS]

  computers to each other and then all of [TS]

  a sudden you know gates writes like a [TS]

  10-page manifester that we've got to get [TS]

  on this internet thing and all of a [TS]

  sudden you know I mean how long did it [TS]

  take for for explorer2 to decimate [TS]

  netscape didn't take long [TS]

  yeah but at the same time to make it [TS]

  active desktop so i don't think i was [TS]

  never noticed I'm not saying that was [TS]

  seamlessly executed I'm just saying he [TS]

  did change his mind you know [TS]

  yeah it it's you know the and the broad [TS]

  strokes facebook was a website it was a [TS]

  website you went to he did all these [TS]

  things and the iphone came out [TS]

  and an awful lot of products that were [TS]

  popular websites in 2007 in the iPhone [TS]

  era just were nowhere did weren't [TS]

  getting the engagement that things that [TS]

  could be done as a native app got and oh [TS]

  yeah i mean not to go too far off into [TS]

  the weeds but one reason is that an [TS]

  awful lot of web sites were built I [TS]

  don't think this is true anymore because [TS]

  mobile is don't think anybody overlooks [TS]

  it but that the back end of the website [TS]

  was inextricably tied to the front end [TS]

  of the website and instead of having [TS]

  everything go through nice API is even [TS]

  the front end of the website so that you [TS]

  could make clients for other devices [TS]

  like a native mac client or and and [TS]

  people say i forgot i only native mac or [TS]

  windows client will just go through the [TS]

  web browser and for a lot of things for [TS]

  a lot of years that was fine but then [TS]

  with the phone that wasn't good enough [TS]

  and facebook had an app that was largely [TS]

  just front end for HTML and JavaScript [TS]

  and then they seem to get it and it's [TS]

  uniform Zuckerberg on down that no we [TS]

  should do this is with as much negative [TS]

  stuff as we can we should this app is [TS]

  important [TS]

  this is more important than our website [TS]

  and that's around when he hired all [TS]

  those designers and I think there's sort [TS]

  of a I think there was sort of a look [TS]

  Apple's you know apples the company to [TS]

  look at they they value a + design [TS]

  talent maybe we should too [TS]

  and then I think in the intervening [TS]

  years the facebook realized that that [TS]

  wasn't really that important to them [TS]

  that the native part was ya design and [TS]

  caliber wasn't or rather I think it's it [TS]

  seemed like there was a lot of trouble [TS]

  like they were able to get the talent [TS]

  but just you know by applying sheer [TS]

  force of will and lots of money they [TS]

  want to get the town but then the [TS]

  question is what do you have all these [TS]

  great all these incredibly talented [TS]

  people do at Facebook and that was it [TS]

  seemed like they had a hard time having [TS]

  a good answer to that question and [TS]

  maintaining that over time but you know [TS]

  now it's hard to keep good people [TS]

  interested in working for a giant [TS]

  established product you know the Apple [TS]

  has this problem to its really like once [TS]

  you have something that's big and [TS]

  successful and boring like Facebook or [TS]

  the iphone it's hard to get people [TS]

  interested in working on that who the [TS]

  same kind of people who would make [TS]

  something like that because they want to [TS]

  go make something else now [TS]

  I know Mike Maddux a little bit but I [TS]

  haven't spoken to him much since he left [TS]

  facebook so I you know and I'm just sort [TS]

  of speculating here but i know from a [TS]

  couple of people on the team that they [TS]

  were used to being the a-team at the [TS]

  company you know like Maddox was what I [TS]

  think I know he designed a whole bunch [TS]

  of stuff in the original iphone but like [TS]

  I think he literally did like the actual [TS]

  pixels for the slide to unlock you know [TS]

  like that's you know that that's that's [TS]

  and if you're like the person who [TS]

  designs both the visuals and the [TS]

  interaction for a thing doing slide to [TS]

  unlock is pretty pretty big because I [TS]

  mean I remember Steve Jobs actually [TS]

  demoed it like three times he was like [TS]

  that's what I'm going to do it again he [TS]

  like lock the phone and did it yeah so [TS]

  like that when you designing the feature [TS]

  that Steve Jobs decides I'm just going [TS]

  to do this three or four times on stage [TS]

  because it's that I just love it so much [TS]

  and then to go to at Facebook and you're [TS]

  not designing you're not designing the [TS]

  app that's in front of a billion users [TS]

  you're designing the app that's in front [TS]

  of like one-tenth of 1% of the users who [TS]

  care more about how things look than the [TS]

  the regular facebook experience and I [TS]

  just think it's hard to get excited [TS]

  about that [TS]

  yeah I'll take a break let's take a [TS]

  break and thank our first sponsor good [TS]

  friends at audible you guys no audible [TS]

  articles where you go to get just about [TS]

  anything and everything [TS]

  audio related i used to think it was a [TS]

  place to go to get audio books and it's [TS]

  true they have more audio books then [TS]

  anybody but they have so much more than [TS]

  audiobooks now you go there you sign up [TS]

  for an account and you can get all sorts [TS]

  of stuff they have news daily news shows [TS]

  they have comedy shows all of this stuff [TS]

  and a lot of this stuff is original to [TS]

  audible if you want to listen to it [TS]

  audible has it [TS]

  listen to audiobooks from virtually [TS]

  every genre anytime anywhere [TS]

  they have a great listen guarantee so if [TS]

  you get an audio book and start [TS]

  listening to it and it's like putting [TS]

  you to sleep you could just like get [TS]

  back to know you get get like a [TS]

  different book like that's how confident [TS]

  they are you just you're not going to [TS]

  get bored you're just going to fill up [TS]

  your every minute where you need to [TS]

  listen to something to not be bored you [TS]

  can fill it up with stuff from [TS]

  audible and I've always said i think [TS]

  this is one of the greatest advertising [TS]

  opportunities ever why do they sponsor [TS]

  podcast because they know that everybody [TS]

  who's listening to me tell you about [TS]

  audible is somebody who listens to [TS]

  spoken word content by definition so if [TS]

  you're listening to this and you feel [TS]

  like you've got gaps in your your your [TS]

  life where you need more podcasts or [TS]

  things like podcast go to audible sign [TS]

  up go to audible.com / talk show know [TS]

  that just talk show and no no you came [TS]

  here and you get a 3 30 day trial 30 [TS]

  days we can just listen to whatever you [TS]

  want [TS]

  audible.com / talk show i think i wrote [TS]

  that script and maybe I was telling i [TS]

  forget i was talking to did I forgot it [TS]

  was on air or not but bill simmons i [TS]

  I've been listening to him over to [TS]

  football season I was listening he [TS]

  doesn't sports thing it doesn't think [TS]

  all the ringer [TS]

  thank you very popular you probably see [TS]

  it's probably pretty high up in overcast [TS]

  i'll be interesting to see if it was [TS]

  actually all that high up in overcast [TS]

  because maybe overcast excuse towards [TS]

  non-sports stuff maybe like sports stuff [TS]

  is a little bit more [TS]

  I don't know maybe in our simulated it [TS]

  does go into it does pretty well and [TS]

  overcast it is not as high as text shows [TS]

  and like they're really popular you know [TS]

  npr-style storytelling shows like this [TS]

  american life though I think it's ben [TS]

  thompson who were talking about it [TS]

  forget it was on the show off but the [TS]

  gist of it is that when on Bill Simmons [TS]

  first started doing sponsors reads on [TS]

  his show he was awful at it as was i [TS]

  like when I first split off and started [TS]

  doing this show on my own just brutal [TS]

  I mean like maybe the show's over who [TS]

  maybe they were ok but the the sponsor [TS]

  breeds were just brutal [TS]

  you just don't know why it's hard it's [TS]

  hard thing to do you get the hang of it [TS]

  eventually took you eight maybe a couple [TS]

  months ago you're pretty good [TS]

  yeah but it's but Simmons is doing [TS]

  Simmons is actually taking it to a new [TS]

  level he was i think i would venture to [TS]

  say he was worse than me at the [TS]

  beginning and now he's better than [TS]

  anybody i've i've ever seen [TS]

  he's he's like in howard stern territory [TS]

  of being able to do it because sometimes [TS]

  when i was in the stern anymore almost [TS]

  seems like Western does one that where [TS]

  he does the reed he's he's phoning it's [TS]

  you could tell his phone in it [TS]

  whereas Simmons does it and he's got a [TS]

  real tight script and it seems like he's [TS]

  trying to literally stick it to 30 [TS]

  seconds get in and out and he really [TS]

  starts talking faster and it just [TS]

  alleviate it does just like completely [TS]

  eliminate any urge I have to skip it [TS]

  I tend not to sting I tend not to skip [TS]

  ahead on sponsor reads on podcast simply [TS]

  because I you know I know some people do [TS]

  and if you do you know that that's why [TS]

  the features there it's okay to my job [TS]

  to try to make it as interesting we've [TS]

  you and I have talked about this before [TS]

  it's my job to try to make it so [TS]

  interesting that you don't want to skip [TS]

  but when i listen to podcast i tend not [TS]

  to skip because i want to listen I'm [TS]

  curious edit at a professional level how [TS]

  is this person going to keep me [TS]

  interested [TS]

  yeah I often will listen to other people [TS]

  who are doing research for the same [TS]

  sponsors that i have just to keep me [TS]

  here like how are you doing this read [TS]

  and then like maybe maybe something I [TS]

  can learn do better in my reach for the [TS]

  same people from the way you're doing is [TS]

  read yeah so what else we got a lot to [TS]

  talk about we gotta hurry up we're [TS]

  really good at that is so we got to have [TS]

  at WWDC moving its the school I mean I [TS]

  don't know anyone san jose so it's [TS]

  really talked a little bit about that I [TS]

  I was so completely surprised by this I [TS]

  I really is this just wasn't even on my [TS]

  radar but I kind of ever you know what [TS]

  happened it was an initial shock and I [TS]

  thought oh shit when we gonna do about [TS]

  my live show you know of course my [TS]

  thoughts turned myself immediately but [TS]

  everyone else did you ever else is like [TS]

  oh how can I fly there is our hotels [TS]

  expensive everyone's thinking the same [TS]

  general stuff you know that most people [TS]

  aren't thinking where can i push my life [TS]

  podcast but it just never occurred to me [TS]

  that they would do this though like it [TS]

  it s the rough thinking was and we've [TS]

  all had this you know people who go [TS]

  regularly that [TS]

  san Francisco's not great the in [TS]

  particular I mean our parts of San [TS]

  Francisco that are absolutely gorgeous [TS]

  but South of Market where moscone is [TS]

  it's not great I don't hate it some [TS]

  people really hated some people you know [TS]

  it is what it is but it is sort of the [TS]

  touristy hoteli and maybe towards these [TS]

  wrong but it'sit's kind of the worst of [TS]

  San Francisco stick that the [TS]

  but the area that we see when we go to [TS]

  everybody see is that is a terrible [TS]

  image of the city as a whole [TS]

  now and then it's not too far from union [TS]

  square though in union square is nicer [TS]

  but union square is just high end retail [TS]

  it's not you know i mean like what you [TS]

  supposed to do go shopping for jewelry [TS]

  and stuff like that in its it's ok but [TS]

  it is what it is but the fact is that [TS]

  Apple we know we table what could they [TS]

  do different well there's no other [TS]

  facility with 5,000 people and then we [TS]

  you know we would just say well used to [TS]

  be in san jose but they moved out of san [TS]

  jose for a reason and there's nothing [TS]

  else and they're not going to go further [TS]

  away because it's already a major stress [TS]

  on Apple to get a thousand engineers you [TS]

  know from the south bay area to san [TS]

  francisco for labs and to just hang out [TS]

  and do stuff and still get work done and [TS]

  I for one had just completely but [TS]

  overlooked to the well they could move [TS]

  back to San Jose angle for years it just [TS]

  never really i never even really gave it [TS]

  serious thought but then once they set [TS]

  of gary is what we're doing [TS]

  I could totally see the logic of it and [TS]

  it seems like a very apple-like move [TS]

  I mean really it makes a ton of sense [TS]

  logistically to me not only as a closer [TS]

  to them but like San Francisco is a [TS]

  dense competitive very expensive city [TS]

  there's a reason why you don't see a lot [TS]

  of tech conferences in manhattan right [TS]

  it's because if you put on a tech [TS]

  conference in manhattan the space that [TS]

  you hold it in is going to be [TS]

  extraordinarily expensive all the [TS]

  logistics getting the food and they're [TS]

  getting it love all the equipment that's [TS]

  all going to be shortened expensive and [TS]

  then for the attendees they're going to [TS]

  have to pay ridiculous hotel prices [TS]

  because they're going to this major city [TS]

  that is itself a massive tourist [TS]

  destination and so it's very unappealing [TS]

  to hold a major conference in new york [TS]

  city unless it really needs to be [TS]

  specifically in new york city for some [TS]

  reason [TS]

  yeah so everybody see could be anywhere [TS]

  like for the attend as far as far as the [TS]

  attendees are concerned it doesn't [TS]

  matter where it is you're going to see [TS]

  talks and labs and stuff and that could [TS]

  be in any conference center any city in [TS]

  America it doesn't have to eat you don't [TS]

  have to be paying [TS]

  the extreme premium and dealing with all [TS]

  the all the logistical challenges and [TS]

  downsides of being in a massive tourist [TS]

  expensive dense City yeah just to go [TS]

  watch some some talks and go to laugh [TS]

  and either you already have friends and [TS]

  colleagues who you will also be there [TS]

  and you'll see right and it doesn't [TS]

  matter where you are or even if you [TS]

  don't even if you're like a first-timer [TS]

  if you're you're new you're going to be [TS]

  surrounded by like-minded individuals [TS]

  and it's not hard to make friends or [TS]

  even even just temporary friends while [TS]

  while sitting at a bar or something like [TS]

  that you're very you know because [TS]

  they're talking about Xcode and all of a [TS]

  sudden you know you're not bored right i [TS]

  mean like if anything the city's kind of [TS]

  wasted on you because if you're if [TS]

  you're attending the conference you [TS]

  don't really have time to go out and [TS]

  explore much of the city like you for [TS]

  the most part you're getting your waking [TS]

  up you're trying to get to the 9am [TS]

  session in the morning you're you're in [TS]

  sessions and stuff all day you might [TS]

  have a little hour for lunch but you [TS]

  can't go that far [TS]

  and then you back and then like five [TS]

  o'clock rolls around you want to like go [TS]

  to the hotel bar with your friends have [TS]

  a couple of drinks and like that's that [TS]

  you know we go to dinner and that's the [TS]

  night like you can do that anywhere [TS]

  you're not seeing the whole city again [TS]

  it doesn't really make sense i mean like [TS]

  like one of my favorite conference [TS]

  venues I've ever been to is is where all [TS]

  has been held the last couple years in [TS]

  Killarney Ireland in this hotel called [TS]

  the europe and it's like it's this very [TS]

  very remote location and the hotel [TS]

  itself you been you know that have you [TS]

  been there actually I don't think so i [TS]

  don't because you missed the yeah anyway [TS]

  it's awesome contemporary know they've [TS]

  been at the same 1i was at one was at a [TS]

  remote location but i think i think [TS]

  they've switched to a different remote [TS]

  location the I this this is I i believe [TS]

  this is the third one they're about to [TS]

  do next month I'm going i recommend it [TS]

  anyway so it's you know it's just like [TS]

  this one giant hotel venue kind of the [TS]

  middle of nowhere it's beautiful but [TS]

  like you're all kind of self and close [TS]

  they're either either is I mean there is [TS]

  a nearby city of Killarney but like you [TS]

  don't really because you totally have to [TS]

  go there like you're all on premises and [TS]

  you're surrounded by all the people that [TS]

  are there for your event and so you know [TS]

  there is there is no time to go out and [TS]

  enjoy [TS]

  other city like that's what you're there [TS]

  for you're there you're there to hang [TS]

  out with those people and see those [TS]

  talks and do those events so to have a [TS]

  conference in a massive see that you're [TS]

  paying a big premium to be in doesn't [TS]

  actually make a lot of sense [TS]

  I love Ireland I remembered with the [TS]

  last time i was there are and there was [TS]

  a band member and their lead singer you [TS]

  there this year and there's a lead [TS]

  singer named patty PA di I've never been [TS]

  there but it on on the same time that [TS]

  you were there i don't think so either [TS]

  so patty was there and he was the lead [TS]

  singer of this band and he had nothing [TS]

  interesting and I had no connection to [TS]

  like Apple related stuff but he came up [TS]

  to the pub in you know in the you know [TS]

  without leaving the building is sort of [TS]

  like a compound he came up and was going [TS]

  to have a drink or two and he just you [TS]

  know he's gregarious you know showbiz [TS]

  performer but you know but very nice and [TS]

  it quickly struck up conversations with [TS]

  all sorts of people and he was having a [TS]

  good time and and and never laughed and [TS]

  then it like midnight that they were [TS]

  doing last call and everybody's like I'm [TS]

  and we're going to do everybody want to [TS]

  stay up a little bit later and Patty [TS]

  went up to the bartender and just hit it [TS]

  off you know wasn't like whisper in his [TS]

  ear but he just like spend about two [TS]

  minutes talking to him and the next [TS]

  thing you know the bartenders like [TS]

  slapping on the back and the bartender [TS]

  says I will stay open 24 hours [TS]

  that's awesome I've never heard of [TS]

  anything like that in my life like where [TS]

  the staff of the place i can he got you [TS]

  know it like called / you know he didn't [TS]

  like make it unilaterally called of [TS]

  another bartender was just like it was [TS]

  you know these guys want to keep going [TS]

  to do you know how about we do two more [TS]

  hours but a good conference [TS]

  why do you think WBC moved from san [TS]

  josé de San Francisco when I did I [TS]

  think it was 2003 or 2000 for me i don't [TS]

  i was before my time III think some of [TS]

  the other things I've heard [TS]

  I think Jason had had was talking about [TS]

  an upgrade about how like you know back [TS]

  then Apple really wanted to be like in [TS]

  more the media spotlight with this stuff [TS]

  that you know it's more prestigious to [TS]

  go there it's like you know really only [TS]

  like yeah we're big were awesome kind of [TS]

  attracts more media attention being [TS]

  there but now the attention comes to [TS]

  them they don't they don't need to do [TS]

  that as much yeah I think that's exactly [TS]

  it was Steve Jobs i think steve jobs you [TS]

  know Apple was firing [TS]

  on all cylinders the ipod was slowly [TS]

  turning into a massive hit the retail [TS]

  stores were slowly turning into a [TS]

  success story they were it was that you [TS]

  know the lat famously I know that I [TS]

  think Jason and and mikey went over this [TS]

  that and the last one at San Jose was [TS]

  the one where they had a funeral for mac [TS]

  OS 9 which was actually kind of force [TS]

  like the reason they had its kind of you [TS]

  think that's kind of you think that's a [TS]

  weird thing to do is have a funeral on [TS]

  stage for your product but it was [TS]

  actually because it wasn't dead it was [TS]

  because so many people were still using [TS]

  mac OS 9 but it was at the point where [TS]

  they felt like they were in the clear it [TS]

  was three or four years into the guests [TS]

  at least three years into the mac OS 10 [TS]

  the hero but they were at the point [TS]

  where I think they could see the light [TS]

  at the end of the tunnel that yes what [TS]

  we're going to make this transition all [TS]

  max will be running Mac os10 you know [TS]

  this isn't going to sink us the first [TS]

  two years of mac OS 10 was kind of iffy [TS]

  really in terms of how big the uptake [TS]

  was so I think that after that one you [TS]

  know the mac was clearly had a bright [TS]

  future the ipod was great [TS]

  retail is great i think steve jobs [TS]

  wanted a bigger spotlight and i think [TS]

  doing it already having like a hopeful [TS]

  funeral like we really hope this is it [TS]

  guys please [TS]

  mature mature begging you please make [TS]

  this dead i remember that and it was [TS]

  before my time attending WWE sees but i [TS]

  still had 22 max at my desk i had a good [TS]

  i have added power mac 9600 that was [TS]

  still running mac OS 9 as my main [TS]

  machine and then I had a an ibook [TS]

  running OS 10 I'll see now I have one [TS]

  with the keyboard i can use and one with [TS]

  another one [TS]

  well so is what I think I think they [TS]

  moved to San Francisco for the publicity [TS]

  I think that's exactly right that they [TS]

  wanted more attention they felt like [TS]

  they need you know they could use it [TS]

  they had stuff to say that stuff to [TS]

  deserve more attention and now they [TS]

  don't and I don't think San Francisco [TS]

  was ever a good fit for Apple culturally [TS]

  they're not a san francisco city [TS]

  yeah they're they're really they have a [TS]

  very different vibe about them than what [TS]

  I mean again I've never ever worked for [TS]

  apple and I live in San Francisco so [TS]

  it's hard for me to say this but just my [TS]

  my my kind of bird's eye view of it does [TS]

  seem like they didn't really fit in [TS]

  there like there's no you in the travel [TS]

  aside like because they're there when [TS]

  they moved to the new apple can open a [TS]

  new Apple their agency move because [TS]

  that's exactly my point but when they [TS]

  opened a new apple campus to they're not [TS]

  leaving the apple campus the original [TS]

  infinite loop campus they need what they [TS]

  need all the space they can get and so I [TS]

  mean there might be some empty offices [TS]

  for a while but that you know there's [TS]

  going to be back and forth between the [TS]

  original apple campus and apple campus [TS]

  to on a daily basis so having them both [TS]

  in cupertino is a big deal you know and [TS]

  they have new office space in san jose [TS]

  they have space a few other places in [TS]

  the south bay area but the fact that [TS]

  getting between anywhere in the south [TS]

  bay is easier than getting from anywhere [TS]

  in the south bay to San Francisco is a [TS]

  big deal like there's no universe where [TS]

  Apple Campus to is a skyscraper with the [TS]

  same square footage in San Francisco [TS]

  it's not absolutely and and travel aside [TS]

  even if part of it was like a tunnel dug [TS]

  by elon musk that could get you between [TS]

  them in 10 minutes [TS]

  even if you get between them in 10 [TS]

  minutes there's just no way they would [TS]

  do it it's just [TS]

  San Francisco is not an apple town in a [TS]

  way that san jose i think is I'm looking [TS]

  forward to it because it you know it [TS]

  really is like going to a whole new [TS]

  conference now and you know WC i've i've [TS]

  gone now for something like seven years [TS]

  something like that and I've enjoyed it [TS]

  but i'm looking forward to something new [TS]

  something fresh and you know it's it's [TS]

  kind of more exciting now because it's [TS]

  it's going to be something a little [TS]

  different i forget if I went 2006 so I [TS]

  either want ten years in a row or nine [TS]

  years in a row [TS]

  yeah it's one of my favorite things [TS]

  about covering apple is that they're [TS]

  very predictable so if you try to [TS]

  approach them and analyze them in a [TS]

  logical standpoint you can have success [TS]

  but they're also resistant to [TS]

  complacency right so they're not going [TS]

  to like ping-pong around and move [TS]

  wcd random cities every year but [TS]

  they're not going to keep it in San [TS]

  Francisco just because that's where it's [TS]

  been for ten years which will get one [TS]

  will get to when we talk about a iphone [TS]

  and ipad for form factors in the other [TS]

  thing too is we you've heard and I've [TS]

  heard everybody's gone in recent years [TS]

  has heard that from the long time [TS]

  attendees who remember the San Jose or [TS]

  there's a reputation that downtown San [TS]

  Jose was kind of sleepy that you know [TS]

  restaurants and bars close early [TS]

  there's the quote-unquote nothing to do [TS]

  two things on that is one back then WWDC [TS]

  didn't even sell out i don't i forget [TS]

  when the first sellout was but I don't [TS]

  think it was in san jose and the second [TS]

  thing is that talking to a couple people [TS]

  WWE are downtown San Jose has improved a [TS]

  lot in the last 10 years that there's [TS]

  been a lot of oh I i just looked at [TS]

  first wwc the sellout was 2008 gee I [TS]

  wonder what happened 2008 that would [TS]

  cause the first cell so up until two [TS]

  thousand eight even the first few years [TS]

  at moscone you could like buy a ticket [TS]

  the day before deputy see I think the [TS]

  fact that this is obviously going to [TS]

  sell out in that they're going to be [TS]

  people in San Jose who don't even have [TS]

  tickets you know it's gonna be a [TS]

  different five and the end a couple [TS]

  people have said that [TS]

  downtown San Jose is really improved a [TS]

  lot i was just talking to friends like [TS]

  friends really hard winter like you [TS]

  don't really need much like it when [TS]

  you're when you're there for a [TS]

  conference like you need a handful of [TS]

  you eat good hotels that you can [TS]

  hopefully get for a reasonable price [TS]

  you need a hat you need a bunch of [TS]

  restaurants will get food at and you [TS]

  need you know it's just a handful of [TS]

  decent bars and bars motels and that's [TS]

  about it like you don't need tons and [TS]

  tons of nightlife for a tech conference [TS]

  for five days right [TS]

  it's actually better the bars are [TS]

  generally empty but are willing to stay [TS]

  open late so you can ya take over down [TS]

  Rumple I was talking to about it now he [TS]

  needs familiar with the area now he goes [TS]

  to hockey games at the San Jose forget I [TS]

  don't know what the name of it is but [TS]

  over the Sharks play which is only one [TS]

  mile away from the convention center so [TS]

  it's you know by by city standards not a [TS]

  far walk like that's the thing about san [TS]

  jose is that downtown San [TS]

  jose is all in one area it's not spread [TS]

  out and he said like after hockey games [TS]

  you know 1030-11 there's all sorts of [TS]

  stuff to do bars to get beers and places [TS]

  to eat late and stuff like that so I i'm [TS]

  looking forward to it [TS]

  yeah you're gonna go no matter what I'm [TS]

  going yeah I actually it last year I [TS]

  told myself you know what I'm not going [TS]

  to get tickets anymore like I'm because [TS]

  i'm going to like fewer sessions I'm [TS]

  like you know it's I feel now that i'm [TS]

  wasting a ticket because I i keep trying [TS]

  to do more and more other things like I [TS]

  keep getting double booked for time [TS]

  slots with meetings and social events [TS]

  and podcast event that everything was [TS]

  like you know i just i'm just going to [TS]

  take it now actually kinda I'm [TS]

  questioning that now it's gonna be [TS]

  different like well maybe I should get a [TS]

  ticket this yeah I don't know why but I [TS]

  definitely going out there [TS]

  yeah i mean i'll go just to cover the [TS]

  keynote and then I have nothing to [TS]

  announce but hopefully to do my live [TS]

  show again but the could always do that [TS]

  and try to always do it on tuesday [TS]

  evenings my question is how long to stay [TS]

  like I don't know if I'm gonna stay all [TS]

  week [TS]

  yeah I I don't know it's a bit because [TS]

  the thing is we don't know it is a whole [TS]

  new conference effectively so we don't [TS]

  know if you know if you if you say if [TS]

  you plan to like you know going sunday [TS]

  and leave wednesday or so you know [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  are you gonna regret that you didn't [TS]

  stay until the cool things that we're [TS]

  going to happen on thursday night like [TS]

  you you don't know and that's why I'm [TS]

  kind of thinking like I just do my usual [TS]

  like you know sunday through friday [TS]

  afternoon things that you know it works [TS]

  the worst that can happen to have a [TS]

  couple bonus days in California [TS]

  oh no no that's there are worse things [TS]

  in the world the Hat Yai don't know what [TS]

  I'm gonna do it anyway [TS]

  what a surprise us that came out like [TS]

  what the day after ATP last week's you [TS]

  guys didn't get you haven't talked about [TS]

  you [TS]

  I think the gist of it and i think i [TS]

  think everybody started wrapping their [TS]

  heads around it is i think Apple Apple [TS]

  can spend the money on surrounding stuff [TS]

  around the Convention Center and the [TS]

  number of people that will be there you [TS]

  know [TS]

  attendance is not going up but it even [TS]

  if it's just 5,000 plus a couple [TS]

  thousand of people who you know come in [TS]

  or out of a couple thousand combat and [TS]

  4,000 people come just to be there and [TS]

  simultaneous with it and then cut the [TS]

  other factor is combined with all the [TS]

  south bay companies whose employees [TS]

  might come after work when they couldn't [TS]

  if it was all the way up in San [TS]

  Francisco i think it's i think it's [TS]

  going to feel like apples taken over san [TS]

  jose [TS]

  yeah my main concern is if I don't get a [TS]

  conference ticket will I not be able to [TS]

  get into major events that i will then [TS]

  want to get into [TS]

  ya know like that that's that's been [TS]

  like my one my one concern of like you [TS]

  know it should i go anyway or not and [TS]

  because I in San Francisco there was so [TS]

  much to do everywhere that whether you [TS]

  had a WTC badge but didn't really matter [TS]

  for anything except for the beer bash [TS]

  that was the only thing where were [TS]

  really mattered whether you have it or [TS]

  not but all the other events that [TS]

  happened around the around the [TS]

  conference were for anybody and I hope [TS]

  that's gonna keep being the case but I [TS]

  don't know yet and I think it'll be the [TS]

  same [TS]

  I do i do think here's my theory might [TS]

  one of my theories is that they'll have [TS]

  the bash on campus at apple campus too [TS]

  because i think that would be awesome [TS]

  but I don't think it's ready [TS]

  I maybe by junior will be on and it [TS]

  certainly cutting it close [TS]

  yeah I don't know or maybe they'll have [TS]

  it back at infinite loop I don't know [TS]

  that's what they used to do is it big [TS]

  enough because the care of their big [TS]

  enough to hold today's everybody see [TS]

  crowd I don't [TS]

  yeah i don't know i mean the new the new [TS]

  courtyard certainly is like your buena [TS]

  felt crowded and that that's a big yard [TS]

  you know [TS]

  yeah but if you speak you know it got [TS]

  crowded by the stage but yeah I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  no it was empty by the stage setup [TS]

  no it was empty by the stage setup [TS]

  I guess you're right it was very crowded [TS]

  as for the further back you got from the [TS]

  stage the craft more crack about it [TS]

  because none of the dirt none of the [TS]

  Nerds the conference ever wanted to be [TS]

  near the band I want to talk to each [TS]

  other you can hear I can't hear let's go [TS]

  to the back [TS]

  it's the worst gig for a band of ever [TS]

  play some of them that success its iight [TS]

  so bad for them every year just take out [TS]

  godlike he thought your plane to a bunch [TS]

  of nerds backs you were like plugging [TS]

  their ears with their don't want to hear [TS]

  it right [TS]

  oh it's terrible alright let's just uh [TS]

  that's shift gears to there's supposedly [TS]

  a march apple event and we're going to [TS]

  do iPads new ipads possibly a a 128 [TS]

  gigabyte upgrade to the iphone SE and [TS]

  what else a new red color for the iphone [TS]

  SE or maybe a new red color for all [TS]

  iphones I think the rumor was a new red [TS]

  color for the main iphone 7 lino maybe [TS]

  which is kind of odd to do halfway [TS]

  through a cycle but I mean who knows you [TS]

  know it again like this is the kind of [TS]

  thing where like if we look back and say [TS]

  well Apple never does that you know we [TS]

  have the iphone makes a lot of money [TS]

  apples and evolving company that they [TS]

  can do whatever they want and they will [TS]

  you know if they think there's a good [TS]

  reason to do something like those they [TS]

  would do it so i think one of the [TS]

  interesting things is that just about [TS]

  everything we know about or have heard I [TS]

  should say we know but every just about [TS]

  all the rumors we have about upcoming [TS]

  apple products all come from ming-chi [TS]

  kuo the analyst at KGI securities but [TS]

  you certainly seems like he has the best [TS]

  info the earliest right like gurman has [TS]

  had some stories at Bloomberg but it [TS]

  hasn't really been a lot like an apple [TS]

  TV thing recently but it's you know it's [TS]

  just for k coming to apple TV in terms [TS]

  of like iPads and iPhones he hasn't had [TS]

  a lot recently it seems like it's all [TS]

  coming from being chi kuo also it seems [TS]

  like German sources or maybe more in the [TS]

  mac area maybe because he seems to have [TS]

  more mac info and makes you quote seems [TS]

  to have more iOS supply chain info [TS]

  it's all supply chain info I don't think [TS]

  she quite as any to any sources at [TS]

  cupertino I really don't and a lot of [TS]

  what he gets wrong is from not having [TS]

  those sources but that he has like [TS]

  seemingly like drinking buddy status was [TS]

  some foxconn executive it's but it was [TS]

  interesting because it just yesterday [TS]

  i'm looking at the date Mack kodikara [TS]

  the Japanese rumor site who has a pretty [TS]

  good track record to ya didn't I mean [TS]

  i'll put a link in the show notes to the [TS]

  one but i'll put the macrumors version [TS]

  because it's an English what they're [TS]

  saying is a much like KGI ming-chi kuo [TS]

  the new 9.7 and 12.9 inch iPad pros so [TS]

  take the ipad pros we already have new [TS]

  ones a bizarre to me rumor of a 10.5 [TS]

  inch iPad which basically has the same [TS]

  footprint as the 9.7 inch as we know it [TS]

  but with an edge-to-edge display so get [TS]

  rid of the bezels at the top and bottom [TS]

  so it has a 10.5 inch diagonal display [TS]

  because it gets rid of the bezels now [TS]

  the reason i call that bizarre getting [TS]

  rid of bezel sounds like something Apple [TS]

  would do but the reason that sounds [TS]

  bizarre to me is that all these rumors [TS]

  say that it's going to come alongside a [TS]

  new 9.7 inch iPad pro like to me what [TS]

  would make the it what both makes sense [TS]

  and fits the historical pattern is if [TS]

  they're going to do that introduced that [TS]

  as the new high-end model at this [TS]

  footprint and put the ipad the 9.7 inch [TS]

  iPad pro at a- hundred-dollar minus two [TS]

  hundred dollar price point lower down [TS]

  the chain but there's an awful lot like [TS]

  all these rumors say that are going to [TS]

  do both and now Mac a car yesterday says [TS]

  there's also going to be a 7.9 inch iPad [TS]

  pro so in other words an ipad pro mini [TS]

  yeah what should be the first place too [TS]

  many in quite some time [TS]

  yeah but i think that they've done that [TS]

  before I've i think if you look at the [TS]

  updates to the money that they've [TS]

  skipped years before [TS]

  yeah i mean so you know lets you know [TS]

  easy things first the 7.9 inch iPad pro [TS]

  many that makes a lot of sense and it's [TS]

  not because last year specs right that's [TS]

  what I would think is gonna have its [TS]

  probably probably has the specs of the [TS]

  current 9.7 pro which is now a year old [TS]

  so that makes sense right [TS]

  you know it apple doesn't need to like [TS]

  you know save the pro name only for the [TS]

  higher-end products because pro means [TS]

  they can sell a hundred our pencil and [TS]

  artificial our keyboard yeah with these [TS]

  things so they they love spreading pro [TS]

  over the whole line [TS]

  I wonder what it and I mean a keyboard [TS]

  that would fit i have an ipad mini in [TS]

  front of me right now that's it's [TS]

  cramped keyboard I i use like a logitech [TS]

  one once a long time ago and it was it [TS]

  was nearly impossible to use it was [TS]

  tough like the 9.7 size allows for a [TS]

  just barely usable keyboard case on it [TS]

  but the point is that stuff they mean [TS]

  they do exist and I guess somebody buy [TS]

  them but that's that's certainly not a [TS]

  good keyboard but anyway so that makes [TS]

  sense so between 9.7 10.5 you know [TS]

  there's there are these kind of similar [TS]

  rumors that will probably get too [TS]

  although with the whole iphone 7 7's and [TS]

  eighth-inning also simultaneously [TS]

  released in the fall and they're [TS]

  basically being like the iphone quote [TS]

  eight would be this similar bezel list [TS]

  you know larger screen smaller case [TS]

  higher-priced model so that's it you [TS]

  know if they're gonna do that for the [TS]

  iphone line whatever their reasons are [TS]

  for doing it there they had maybe that [TS]

  you know they finally got their edge to [TS]

  edge design and technology lineup they [TS]

  can finally do this whatever excited to [TS]

  do this but it costs more to do it for [TS]

  various reasons or whatever else or they [TS]

  just wanted you know they want to have a [TS]

  premium product as they want to start [TS]

  you know if if people are really [TS]

  treating their phones and their iPads as [TS]

  computers both in what they're doing [TS]

  with them and in their replacement [TS]

  cycles then Apple probably wants to [TS]

  boost those prices up a little bit well [TS]

  you're only going to buy a new phone [TS]

  every three years ago I had every five [TS]

  and you're treated like used to treat [TS]

  your 2000 our laptop well if we can get [TS]

  you paid a lot of hundred bucks for [TS]

  that's that's better for us and we can [TS]

  give you higher and specs and higher and [TS]

  you know more storage and fancier screen [TS]

  technology and also stuff so it makes a [TS]

  lot of sense why they would have higher [TS]

  price ones at all and it's totally [TS]

  possible with modern apple that they [TS]

  would also keep making lower end ones [TS]

  that you know rather because you know [TS]

  apple releases new things like this you [TS]

  knew I [TS]

  iOS devices new form factors one of the [TS]

  ways that they can release these things [TS]

  they have in the past is you release the [TS]

  new thing at the old price point and [TS]

  push everything down a hundred bucks the [TS]

  other way you do it is you leave [TS]

  everything at the same price point and [TS]

  you bring the new one in [TS]

  that's a hundred bucks more than the [TS]

  homeless because the new ones higher-end [TS]

  so that's what I see them probably doing [TS]

  here [TS]

  that's probably what the 10.5 inch iPad [TS]

  and the quote iphone 8 with this weird a [TS]

  display both of those are probably that [TS]

  ladder kind of product where they both [TS]

  probably coming to an existing lineup [TS]

  that itself doesn't really change or [TS]

  changes only a minor ways and they [TS]

  command a higher price points with more [TS]

  premium stuff now so i think i think [TS]

  it's almost like you have to because the [TS]

  pattern is the same that there's going [TS]

  to be new models in the old form factor [TS]

  and this amazing edge-to-edge you know [TS]

  blow away design without the bezels it's [TS]

  the same story for the ipad in the [TS]

  iphone so we might as well talk just [TS]

  forestall the blow away thing as a verb [TS]

  i might have allergies or it was an [TS]

  adjective [TS]

  it was an agitated to do I might have [TS]

  big-league that's a big league design [TS]

  that was bigley know your type know [TS]

  everybody says that they were talking [TS]

  about Trump here [TS]

  Trump uses big league as an adjective [TS]

  and he's it doesn't make any sense to [TS]

  say typically it wouldn't eat has big [TS]

  leak and but having comes out I don't [TS]

  think not making sense is necessarily a [TS]

  pourrait yea big league big lead do it [TS]

  for ya but big league is what he's [TS]

  saying trust me today to get your gonna [TS]

  have these blowing designs forced all [TS]

  right you've got you can even see it [TS]

  when the White House transcribes remarks [TS]

  it's it's big-league it's gonna be a big [TS]

  league design ensures auto correcting [TS]

  for the update I you know I mean what I [TS]

  bet on it now but I [TS]

  it's the same story but to me it makes [TS]

  more sense with the iphone than the ipad [TS]

  and so the story with the iphone is that [TS]

  there would be what a presumably be [TS]

  called or at least described i mean [TS]

  again we can't marketing names of the [TS]

  hardest thing to know for sure because [TS]

  they're the tightest held secrets but it [TS]

  sounds like they're going to do the 7s & [TS]

  7 S Plus exactly like you would think [TS]

  where it's the same form factor close [TS]

  enough like down to like the tenth of a [TS]

  millimeter where you can probably use [TS]

  the same case with magic would [TS]

  presumably like an better camera and [TS]

  maybe like a next-generation a series [TS]

  cpu you know everything you want you [TS]

  exactly what you think in the 707s would [TS]

  be and then also this new iphone [TS]

  I don't know I i if this is anything if [TS]

  there's any truth to this [TS]

  I don't think there's any chance that [TS]

  they call this new iphone the iphone 8 [TS]

  there's just no way I think that they [TS]

  would call it the iphone pro because I [TS]

  think that's the only way that you can [TS]

  have a reasonable amount of excitement [TS]

  for the new 7 s and 70 s plus and have [TS]

  this new phone like it doesn't make [TS]

  sense to me to have an iphone 8 and 2 [TS]

  7's in the same year like why not just [TS]

  because who wouldn't just by the eight [TS]

  but well it's gonna be expensive right [TS]

  it's the part of making are all the [TS]

  rumors that seems like a thousand [TS]

  dollars which like if you actually look [TS]

  at like the the full price of iphones [TS]

  that is not that ridiculous it's like a [TS]

  hundred fifty bucks more than just then [TS]

  a similar respect plus model would be [TS]

  right life in a suit if you assume that [TS]

  it probably starts at 128 or 256 right [TS]

  likely probably does a the 256 no rumor [TS]

  came out today that is going to have to [TS]

  two models 64 and 256 really so god i [TS]

  would guess like it might be like toast [TS]

  1049 464 and 1149 first 256 at least [TS]

  it's only you but the idea would be that [TS]

  these get these this would get [TS]

  slaughtered in at a new higher price [TS]

  point that the 7s & 7 S Plus would take [TS]

  the existing price points and that [TS]

  they're actually instead of going lower [TS]

  they're actually going more upscale [TS]

  and that was a very apple-like thing to [TS]

  do yeah it makes sense on a lot of [TS]

  levels i mean you know the cynical take [TS]

  is of course they're gonna make a lot [TS]

  more money because the ASP is going to [TS]

  go up on their most profitable products [TS]

  and I like that's like that's a big deal [TS]

  for them financially for their [TS]

  performance on Wall Street center ok but [TS]

  also there there's good reasons for also [TS]

  like you know one of them is they can [TS]

  afford to put higher price parts in this [TS]

  one so you could you could have like you [TS]

  know something that maybe maybe they [TS]

  couldn't afford you know parts price [TS]

  wise to put in all the iphones for a [TS]

  year because that's a lot of phones then [TS]

  they can have it in this model for [TS]

  people who want to pay another couple [TS]

  hundred bucks and then also it you know [TS]

  if the rumors are true that they're [TS]

  doing this crazy edge screen thing that [TS]

  I I think it's pretty clearly going to [TS]

  be oled colloids are at this scale like [TS]

  possibly they're having production yield [TS]

  problems with the type and quality and [TS]

  and whatever they're making and so maybe [TS]

  they can't make like 80 million of them [TS]

  a quarter whatever the number is so they [TS]

  have to have like a mainstream iphone [TS]

  for this coming year that isn't this [TS]

  crazy new screen but they also want to [TS]

  have this creation screen in whatever [TS]

  quantity they could make for people who [TS]

  are going to pay for it and it lets them [TS]

  keep like the the kind of like [TS]

  innovation crown going it like it [TS]

  because it's it's okay it's just [TS]

  wonderful like showpiece at the top of [TS]

  the line even if like sixty percent of [TS]

  buyers aren't buying it [TS]

  no I i think though if they do this it [TS]

  has to be in sufficient quantity that [TS]

  they can meet demand as well as they've [TS]

  met it in recent years with whatever the [TS]

  new top-of-the-line is because I think a [TS]

  ton of people are going to want this [TS]

  this crate if this exact rumor comes [TS]

  true [TS]

  I don't know if it's forty percent but [TS]

  it's going to be some it's not going to [TS]

  be like just a sliver like there's gonna [TS]

  be an awful lot of people who for extra [TS]

  hundred or two hundred dollars or even [TS]

  three hundred dollars are going to say i [TS]

  want the new hotness and yeah if it's [TS]

  like if I i could see this really i [TS]

  think it's a risk if they if they're [TS]

  really going to do this and I think the [TS]

  idea you know if you're if you're [TS]

  complaining about apples they don't take [TS]

  risks anymore here's your [TS]

  here's your story because of the risk i [TS]

  see happening is if they make this [TS]

  announcement and forty percent of [TS]

  everybody who wants to buy a new iphone [TS]

  in September wants this one and it's [TS]

  instantly backordered three months or [TS]

  something and nobody can get it [TS]

  instantly it will be none of those [TS]

  people are then going to say oh cancel [TS]

  my order i'll get the 7s nobody's gonna [TS]

  do that there are going to say alright [TS]

  i'll wait i could so I could what I [TS]

  could see happening if they can't meet [TS]

  demand at least as well as they've done [TS]

  in recent years like with this to say [TS]

  like in the quarter they just reported [TS]

  if they can't meet demand for this [TS]

  iphone pro as well as they did for the [TS]

  seven and seven plus three months ago in [TS]

  what turned out to be the best selling [TS]

  iphone quarter ever then I think they're [TS]

  in real trouble because nobody everybody [TS]

  is waiting for it is not going to settle [TS]

  on the 7s & 7 S Plus and then [TS]

  year-over-year it's going to look bad [TS]

  because they're going to take a big hit [TS]

  it'll even out eventually because [TS]

  eventually it's not just people waiting [TS]

  for the iphone pro going to switch to [TS]

  android they'll wait till January [TS]

  February or march or however long it [TS]

  takes to get it but it's going to look [TS]

  bad at that year-over-year [TS]

  quarter-over-quarter demand so i think [TS]

  that the idea i've seen people say oh [TS]

  they'll do this and it's sort of just [TS]

  like a like the 20th anniversary Mac you [TS]

  know it's like a it's like a little [TS]

  thing at the at the fringe for just a [TS]

  handful of you know people who are [TS]

  willing to spend a little bit more [TS]

  I don't think that's the case at all i [TS]

  think this would be this might be the [TS]

  best selling phone they come out with [TS]

  next year and i happen to know I just [TS]

  anecdotally I see lots of people on [TS]

  Twitter the people who really care and [TS]

  we dive gone on this long you know with [TS]

  that that the iphone 7 looking so much [TS]

  like an iphone 6 and success that I [TS]

  can't see why people are so obsessed [TS]

  with the exterior of the phone but it's [TS]

  true that an awful lot of people are [TS]

  that they're not even getting into you [TS]

  know what the camera does how good the [TS]

  screen looks how good the touch sensor [TS]

  is how good the virtual the new virtual [TS]

  home button is [TS]

  and all the other things that are like [TS]

  about it there's an awful lot of people [TS]

  and you see it and all the tech reviews [TS]

  you certainly see it most of the gadget [TS]

  reviews that it's a guy looks like the [TS]

  old iphone math there's an awful lot of [TS]

  people who think like that who have been [TS]

  waiting for years for you know screwing [TS]

  us i'll hold on to my old phone for [TS]

  another year because I know Apple is [TS]

  going to come out with a new thing [TS]

  eventually yeah i mean it matters it [TS]

  matters a lot and I think you're right [TS]

  again i think a lot of people are going [TS]

  to want this new thing I mean I think I [TS]

  think we've shown that as customers that [TS]

  no matter what the new iphone is no [TS]

  matter how happy we are or aren't with [TS]

  it it you know in our social media posts [TS]

  and tech reviews and everything we all [TS]

  want it and we're all gonna buy it and [TS]

  we're all gonna pay whatever it costs so [TS]

  yeah but they're gonna know if this [TS]

  thing is real it unless it unless it has [TS]

  some obscene downside which it probably [TS]

  won't and again an extra hundred fifty [TS]

  bucks is probably not enough of the [TS]

  downside for enough people then they're [TS]

  gonna sell this thing like literally [TS]

  just gonna sell as many as they can [TS]

  possibly make it really i really wonder [TS]

  how why people would buy the 7s and 7's [TS]

  plus I I can totally see why they would [TS]

  keep selling the seven and seven plus at [TS]

  lower prices but I just can't see why [TS]

  people would my people with sign I guess [TS]

  its people who have more sense you know [TS]

  then I do financially and who are like [TS]

  well it is two hundred dollars i'll just [TS]

  get the 7s yeah that's a lot of people [TS]

  think it's not like that like it's [TS]

  everybody who who doesn't buy the [TS]

  top-of-the-line model of and any other [TS]

  year right all right people who don't [TS]

  you know don't defy the 256 even though [TS]

  they only use 228 of their storage just [TS]

  in case i don't even buy the 256 i do I [TS]

  don't like I can't stand the thought of [TS]

  not having the best one [TS]

  ok and i often think like and then I [TS]

  talk I say to myself like what happens [TS]

  if you're like out and about and like [TS]

  breaking news happens and you start [TS]

  shooting video like of this like major [TS]

  event like I don't want to run out of [TS]

  space to shoot video because by cheaped [TS]

  out on my phone by a hundred dollars [TS]

  you have to be shooting a lot of video [TS]

  well I don't know I'm just thought that [TS]

  occurs to me i think the battery will [TS]

  die before you fill it out back and then [TS]

  we'll come back to this i'm going to [TS]

  take another break here for a sponsor [TS]

  but we had I'm not done with this [TS]

  because I want to take this back to the [TS]

  iPad because i don't think i don't think [TS]

  the iphone story can works for the ipad [TS]

  but I'm gonna take a break here and [TS]

  thanks to our next sponsor our good [TS]

  friends at zero you guys know who ero is [TS]

  we talked about it a lot lately I their [TS]

  new Wi-Fi base stations the old model of [TS]

  Wi-Fi is that you'd get a router you [TS]

  hook it up to your cable modem put it [TS]

  somewhere where probably wherever your [TS]

  cable boxes in your house and then hope [TS]

  that one router would give you a good [TS]

  Wi-Fi throughout your whole house we've [TS]

  been doing effort like 15 years I guess [TS]

  what that model stinks and the old way [TS]

  if you did that you could also maybe get [TS]

  like an extender or something but then [TS]

  all of a sudden you're playing like [TS]

  junior sysadmin trying to get this to [TS]

  work to have like a second device that [TS]

  connects to the first device and somehow [TS]

  extends the same network so that when [TS]

  you're just open your device it looks [TS]

  like the same network whether you're [TS]

  upstairs or downstairs or whatever hero [TS]

  is a system designed from the ground up [TS]

  to have multiple devices spread [TS]

  throughout your house and it just [TS]

  coordinates all the nerdy stuff to make [TS]

  that happen seamlessly all by itself [TS]

  you don't even have to separate which [TS]

  device is the main one in which one of [TS]

  the satellites they're all they're [TS]

  actually the same little apple TV style [TS]

  size hockey puck type things really nice [TS]

  design you can put them anywhere in your [TS]

  house i can't if you have a Wi-Fi router [TS]

  anywhere in your house [TS]

  the hero is almost certainly better [TS]

  looking in smaller device they recommend [TS]

  34 most houses you can just go to their [TS]

  web site at a-put like how many floors [TS]

  your house in how many square feet now [TS]

  give you a recommendation on that if you [TS]

  buy for and you really only need three [TS]

  you can send one back you can figure the [TS]

  whole thing through a nice really nice [TS]

  app like you don't have to go to like [TS]

  some weird website on the router at at [TS]

  192 that 168 whatever none of that stuff [TS]

  it's a really nice app you don't have it [TS]

  and you don't have to worry that you're [TS]

  not playing sysadmin you're just [TS]

  you know setting up the way you want it [TS]

  to be you want to have a guest network [TS]

  you'd say give me a guest network then [TS]

  your network as a guest network that's [TS]

  it you're done really really great I've [TS]

  got one here i've set it up i replaced [TS]

  an apple base station set up in our [TS]

  house with 0 and the speeds are way [TS]

  better [TS]

  they even tell you in the app what your [TS]

  speeds are so you can check and you can [TS]

  even it'll even tell you what kind of [TS]

  speeds are getting from your cable [TS]

  company or files or whatever you've got [TS]

  they even have great customer support [TS]

  it's something that the company's really [TS]

  invested in you can call when you get a [TS]

  hold of a real Wi-Fi expert within 30 [TS]

  seconds just in case you need it because [TS]

  look this stuff stuff so maybe something [TS]

  happens [TS]

  30 seconds you're talking to an expert [TS]

  where do you go to find out more [TS]

  ez-go 20 calm / the talkshow go to the [TS]

  talk show is that code and you'll get [TS]

  something nice I think you get expedited [TS]

  shipping [TS]

  yeah that's pretty sure that's it yeah [TS]

  we expedited shipping and hero.com so [TS]

  use that code the talk show what you're [TS]

  talking with your code party ATP I think [TS]

  so you can use ATP to and then and then [TS]

  Marco will get credit for it either way [TS]

  is fine with me [TS]

  good company around so anyway I don't [TS]

  think that this middle ipad that doesn't [TS]

  have a bezel I don't think that it has [TS]

  the same cachet that that this rumored [TS]

  iphone does like would i pay an extra [TS]

  two hundred dollars to get away [TS]

  cool-looking iphone yes what I pay an [TS]

  extra two hundred dollars to get a [TS]

  cool-looking ipad no I don't think so [TS]

  well I think it's you know the the ipad [TS]

  approach that Apple has taken in recent [TS]

  years has been pretty much scatter shot [TS]

  just like we have this product category [TS]

  it's not performing as well as you want [TS]

  to or needed to so let's try a bunch of [TS]

  stuff and and that has resulted in a lot [TS]

  of you know weird attempts for things [TS]

  and a lot of things that are really good [TS]

  and you know the whole ipad pro a branch [TS]

  of the product line that the whole thing [TS]

  with making a pencil after you know [TS]

  everyone assumed Apple never would [TS]

  receive comments made one comment 20 [TS]

  years ago like you know it there they've [TS]

  been David just try [TS]

  a bunch of stuff and the fact is it what [TS]

  what most people need out of their iPads [TS]

  to to like you know get more work done [TS]

  or more of their work done is really [TS]

  tricky difficult long-term software [TS]

  stuff that's much harder to do [TS]

  it's much easier to just let's try some [TS]

  new screen sizes and some new hardware [TS]

  abilities like that's actually easier to [TS]

  do then like let's figure out file [TS]

  management iOS or Windows or anything [TS]

  like those are way harder and and you [TS]

  know and never lets fix the appstore [TS]

  pricing ecosystem like that it's way [TS]

  harder than apple who is already an [TS]

  excellent hardware company making one [TS]

  more screen size or making you know one [TS]

  more hardware configuration ipad has [TS]

  never been to my mind and who and aww [TS]

  industrial design product except for [TS]

  maybe the first one the first one was [TS]

  like because it was just like a [TS]

  quote-unquote they're making a tablet [TS]

  nobody knows it's gonna be thick is what [TS]

  about how big is it [TS]

  nobody knew you know what it was going [TS]

  to be like and then we saw it and it was [TS]

  like wow this is really nice and it's [TS]

  wow this is really kind of cool to have [TS]

  something with the touch latency of an [TS]

  iphone on a big screen it you know it [TS]

  was impressive but then every iteration [TS]

  since then has been very iterative to my [TS]

  mind like there's never been one [TS]

  generation where you're like whoa it [TS]

  with the possible exception of the move [TS]

  from non-retina retina but even then [TS]

  it's not really the the way it looks [TS]

  well without turning it on [TS]

  you know like but the rumors about this [TS]

  iphone pro or iphone 8 or everyone call [TS]

  it or that it's going to look like wow [TS]

  what is that before you even turn it on [TS]

  it doesn't seem you know that was never [TS]

  really the case with with iPads I mean [TS]

  that current iPads looking off a lot [TS]

  like the original 1i mean the backs are [TS]

  flat now and the bezel on the side is [TS]

  our but like the top and bottom bezel is [TS]

  almost exactly the same i think what is [TS]

  it you know it's a combination of them [TS]

  like trying to figure like you know what [TS]

  else can we try here to to turn around [TS]

  the sales curve and 22 let this product [TS]

  really come into its own [TS]

  and then also just like the ipad I I [TS]

  don't think it's about flashing I i [TS]

  think this is actually just about [TS]

  utility the ipad it really struggles [TS]

  between how much screen size you get [TS]

  versus how nice it is to use it it's [TS]

  really this incredibly you know polar [TS]

  opposite relationship where like it if [TS]

  you want to get anything more done on it [TS]

  then [TS]

  browsing the web and watching video you [TS]

  really want more screen space like it if [TS]

  you try multitasking at all the 9.7 can [TS]

  do it but it's it's you know it's pretty [TS]

  tight and it and the people who look [TS]

  like people we know like in the [TS]

  community who are big Pro ipad users who [TS]

  do get a lot of their work on ipads [TS]

  almost always prefer the 12.9 now for [TS]

  getting like quote work done because has [TS]

  more screen space but you know anyone [TS]

  who's ever used to use 12.9 and can can [TS]

  tell you like it's pretty big too like [TS]

  for an ipad like for a laptop it's still [TS]

  nice and small but for an ipad the way [TS]

  you use and hold an ipad it really is [TS]

  quite large and so it adding that screen [TS]

  space to get the 12.9 it and its ability [TS]

  to have multitasking be better and to [TS]

  get more work done more effectively has [TS]

  come at a great cost of this kind of [TS]

  unwieldy size for hand-holding and ipad [TS]

  use that's why I think a lot of typing [TS]

  on users use like you know keyboards and [TS]

  stuff for its kind of more like a laptop [TS]

  properly on the table more of the time [TS]

  because if you actually like using it [TS]

  like one-handed like you know one hand [TS]

  to hold it in the other hand to like [TS]

  touch it or use the pencil like that's a [TS]

  pretty big ipad to do that with its kind [TS]

  of awkward it's kind of unwieldy so this [TS]

  this 10-point whatever I think is an [TS]

  attempt to cram that screen resolution [TS]

  into the smaller body which for ipad [TS]

  power users and I guess we don't have [TS]

  any of those there are but for ipad [TS]

  power users that sounds incredible that [TS]

  sounds like exactly what so many people [TS]

  would want in [TS]

  I want an ipad that is that is still [TS]

  small enough to feel and handle like an [TS]

  iPad and that means 9.7 roughly you know [TS]

  physical dimensions [TS]

  yeah but that would have more [TS]

  green space so i could better multitask [TS]

  and get more of my work done on this [TS]

  device or get my work done more [TS]

  efficiently on this device and the [TS]

  speculation i think is that the the [TS]

  pixel resolution is set up being it 266 [TS]

  pixels-per-inch it's going to be 3 26 [TS]

  which is the pixel resolution of the [TS]

  retina mini and the iphone and the [TS]

  iphone that seems really small to me for [TS]

  a device that you would hold at a [TS]

  further away distance but maybe that's [TS]

  just my aging vision speaking I mean [TS]

  it's just it's just like the ipad mini [TS]

  you know it's like it like if the ipad [TS]

  you know that many just has like a 9.7 [TS]

  resolution shrunk down it's gonna be [TS]

  that same relationship so if the ipad [TS]

  mini looks acceptable to you and you can [TS]

  use it without eyestrain then this would [TS]

  probably work for you too [TS]

  it's just I'm so it's yeah it just seems [TS]

  like a confusing decision though which [TS]

  one you would buy doesn't it [TS]

  you know like just probably gonna be [TS]

  more expensive than the equivalent 9.7 [TS]

  but it's probably like a hundred bucks [TS]

  more at least so you know it's and maybe [TS]

  like slightly cheaper than the 12.9 [TS]

  version of it you know so who knows i [TS]

  mean it it will see what they do and I i [TS]

  think at this point it's very clear that [TS]

  Apple strategy with the ipad against kit [TS]

  scattershot it's like let's just try a [TS]

  bunch of stuff and see what works and [TS]

  just give people tons and tons of [TS]

  options you know the date will now sell [TS]

  you an ipad at pretty much every hundred [TS]

  dollar price point from 250 on up to [TS]

  like 1,100 and it's like that any of [TS]

  these price points pick your price [TS]

  whatever you're going to pay for an ipad [TS]

  we got one to sell you at exactly that [TS]

  price point but a little bit more after [TS]

  accessories like the end and I think for [TS]

  for what they're trying to do with the [TS]

  ipad like I think it's very clear that [TS]

  again I I think they're they maybe don't [TS]

  really know what will work and what [TS]

  won't to boost sales or to carry this [TS]

  platform forward so they are just trying [TS]

  a bunch of random stuff at this point [TS]

  and I'm sure I'm sure there's more that [TS]

  goes into it than that but it certainly [TS]

  seems like they're taking a lot of [TS]

  hardware risks here in order to just [TS]

  cover more of the market in hopes that [TS]

  people will want what they're now making [TS]

  without having to really dramatically [TS]

  change iOS to be more pc like I don't [TS]

  just seems really it just seems really [TS]

  curious to me that it would that this [TS]

  new [TS]

  bezel design would a debut alongside the [TS]

  ipad pro want to you know I don't know [TS]

  I'm glad I mean myself would understand [TS]

  Eve but i think this is kind of a [TS]

  hallmark of team hooks Apple is like you [TS]

  know just it isn't it is not not an [TS]

  aversion to throwing a bunch of [TS]

  different options out there I don't [TS]

  think that's Tim Cook I really don't I I [TS]

  don't know I I don't know what the [TS]

  thinking I think there's something we're [TS]

  missing if this is true i just don't get [TS]

  it I don't know I do think have you [TS]

  played around with the math there was a [TS]

  mac rumors had a report from each equal [TS]

  on this new the iphone as i'm calling it [TS]

  the iphone pro as others are saying the [TS]

  iphone 8 which supposedly has a five [TS]

  point eight inch oled display but that's [TS]

  the whole device and only 5.15 inches of [TS]

  it are really the sort of I've what we [TS]

  think of as the iphone display now and [TS]

  the rest is like the chin and presumably [TS]

  they'll be new features in the OS that [TS]

  can light stuff up down there [TS]

  ah but basically if you do the math and [TS]

  he's exactly right [TS]

  it's a device that's a very different [TS]

  aspect ratio than the iphone as we know [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah it's too tall and skinny yeah it's [TS]

  basically a device that are the hardware [TS]

  is as narrow as an iPhone se because [TS]

  it's an edge-to-edge display and if you [TS]

  actually put like an iPhone se or an [TS]

  iphone 5 on top of a 4.7 inch iphone and [TS]

  turn the screen on and then put this [TS]

  like an iphone SE on top of it it's [TS]

  pretty much exactly the same with and [TS]

  honest now [TS]

  yeah i got this in here so it's a device [TS]

  yeah it's device that's actually [TS]

  narrower in hand than an iphone 7 you [TS]

  know that a 4.7 inch it's more like an [TS]

  SE in hand but it's as tall as an iphone [TS]

  7 in other words it's just almost [TS]

  exactly the height and it's a device of [TS]

  the iphone with a 4.7 inch screen so as [TS]

  a piece of hardware in your hand not [TS]

  even turning it on it would be smaller [TS]

  than an iphone 7 about the same height [TS]

  and a little narrower [TS]

  but that the aspect ratio that kg is [TS]

  saying it instead of being 16 29 it's [TS]

  more like to point just like 2.15 21 [TS]

  it's more like a widescreen movie you [TS]

  know like a yeah [TS]

  anamorphic movie it's a lot wider it's [TS]

  not just a little bit wider than 16 [TS]

  tonight it's it's a lot wider yeah i [TS]

  mean that that's why i think the the [TS]

  most likely explanation for this is just [TS]

  like there's some other key piece of [TS]

  information that we don't know you know [TS]

  about about how the screen is used how [TS]

  it shaped around the device you know [TS]

  maybe like there's this like function [TS]

  area at the bottom where presumably some [TS]

  kind of like home button area will go [TS]

  maybe there's one of the top also which [TS]

  would slice off that other party aspect [TS]

  ratio and therefore make it look right [TS]

  who knows but these that this is getting [TS]

  into really nitty-gritty specifics that [TS]

  I think we probably don't have enough [TS]

  information to really gauge you know [TS]

  what's real here and what's not i mean [TS]

  it's it's so early and there's no one [TS]

  there's no other information back this [TS]

  up besides KGI stuff which again [TS]

  KJ stuff has been good about a lot of a [TS]

  lot of details about stuff especially I [TS]

  don't think on component type stuff [TS]

  right right but all this you know all [TS]

  this is saying is the panel resolution [TS]

  and there's lots of things that could [TS]

  you know effect that being correct or [TS]

  not and and that being like how we think [TS]

  of the screen shape on the phone or not [TS]

  like you know little as lots of [TS]

  flexibility it allows you know not only [TS]

  different shape things that allows like [TS]

  holes to be cut in panels and stuff like [TS]

  that in the you can do all sorts of [TS]

  crazy stuff with the letter so it could [TS]

  be something weird that we don't that we [TS]

  we can explain this yet with what we [TS]

  know but it could be a much less [TS]

  interesting story then then you know [TS]

  oh it's going to be a new shape phone [TS]

  you know it might just be it might look [TS]

  like what we have now in general [TS]

  proportions and aspect ratios and just [TS]

  have this weird implementation detail [TS]

  about why the screen happens to be the [TS]

  certain resolution would you want it to [TS]

  be that tall do you think like what if [TS]

  it but if it really is just it's [TS]

  as wide as a iphone 7 but tall no way [TS]

  taller so like you see more messages in [TS]

  a list and mail if you're reading an [TS]

  article and seal more the article on [TS]

  screen at once but it is the exact same [TS]

  width as the designer of an app that has [TS]

  to lay out a giant square in the middle [TS]

  of its Now Playing screen that would be [TS]

  awesome but as a user of the phone I [TS]

  don't think I need that really i mean [TS]

  that's it i think there's a lot of [TS]

  advantages to the to the phone display [TS]

  being sixteen by nine one of them is [TS]

  when he turned sideways and shoot video [TS]

  you have the whole screen that looks [TS]

  right right I'm so there's a lot of [TS]

  advantage to that a 60-mile allows you [TS]

  to lay out a lot of different shapes [TS]

  fairly nicely within it [TS]

  you know squares for my three mrs. [TS]

  so-and-so it's i don't i don't think i [TS]

  really want the screen to be taller and [TS]

  skinnier but who knows i mean i have to [TS]

  actually see it and use it well the [TS]

  screen wouldn't be any skinnier and that [TS]

  the numbers add up so he's saying that [TS]

  that this is his numbers for the pixel [TS]

  resolution 2436 hi this is for the [TS]

  display area not the whole panel but the [TS]

  part that would be used as a display [TS]

  area by 1125 wyd now 1125 wide is really [TS]

  interesting because an iphone 7 and a [TS]

  dive on 6's and the six the ones that [TS]

  were 4.7 inches have a 375 point and at [TS]

  2x in its and pixels it's what is 375 [TS]

  times two [TS]

  it's 750 yeah and so if you take 375 [TS]

  times three [TS]

  guess what you get 1125 so basically its [TS]

  name is gonna have 3x it's exactly 3 X [TS]

  so it would be the exact same point for [TS]

  point size as the iphone 4.7 inch [TS]

  screens that we know except instead of [TS]

  being a 2x resolution it would be 3x and [TS]

  unlike the plus phones it would be a [TS]

  real 3x with no downsample what should I [TS]

  mean that would look great as the plus [TS]

  phones with their like you know render [TS]

  3x scale down to 1080p that already [TS]

  looks really nice like it isn't it isn't [TS]

  a massive difference over 2x but it is a [TS]

  difference and like you it [TS]

  don't look back look nicer and III can [TS]

  explain why i don't think i can really [TS]

  see like the pixels for making it just [TS]

  does look nicer [TS]

  so you know to have it be true 3x and [TS]

  not even have two down sampling compared [TS]

  to what we have now in the 4.7 inch line [TS]

  i think would look really great [TS]

  yeah i think that like 10 years ago or [TS]

  or prior the down sampling technique [TS]

  even if it was technically a higher [TS]

  resolution screen but if you downsampled [TS]

  it might look bad i think it probably [TS]

  would have but I think at this point the [TS]

  pixels are so small that downsampling [TS]

  actually makes it look better so long as [TS]

  the actual pictures of smaller but [TS]

  anyway this rumored phone would actually [TS]

  be true 3x resolution which and the fact [TS]

  that the numbers really add up makes [TS]

  gives me makes me think that he's onto [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah i think because like if these are [TS]

  these are weird numbers to just make up [TS]

  or two like to misinterpret you know [TS]

  like so that there is probably something [TS]

  here I think again the only question [TS]

  comes down to like how are these pixels [TS]

  actually allocated to the various screen [TS]

  elements right and what does the app get [TS]

  what does the system get so many right [TS]

  exact the other last aspect of this is [TS]

  that it seems like nobody knows what the [TS]

  hell is going on with touch ID seems [TS]

  like some of this stuff is like well [TS]

  touch ID must go away because the [TS]

  display goes all the way to the bottom [TS]

  so there's nowhere to put the little [TS]

  sapphire button right or wrong I think [TS]

  so too i don't think i and i think that [TS]

  there's a way to integrate it into the [TS]

  screen just put in the middle you know [TS]

  and you know clearly the move away from [TS]

  the physical button last year to a [TS]

  virtual button that has happened [TS]

  feedback would play right into this but [TS]

  then there's all these rumors also [TS]

  rumors that they're going to use a new [TS]

  fancy new camera to face recognition or [TS]

  something like that I would be surprised [TS]

  if they do that but I would be a little [TS]

  surprised if they did it in place of [TS]

  touch ID because I feel like touch ID [TS]

  it's it seems like it's like a habit [TS]

  people already have I don't feel like [TS]

  they can't take that away [TS]

  well I mean they again they could they [TS]

  could try whatever they want especially [TS]

  with all this weird high-end one that is [TS]

  already kind of like selecting for fewer [TS]

  buyers but but I I'm i think it's [TS]

  unlikely i'm with you on that I mean [TS]

  again we'll see what happens i mean we I [TS]

  think we all thought the headphone jack [TS]

  was unlikely to but no i didn't [TS]

  okay yeah that's right he didn't I can't [TS]

  wait for him to get rid of my headphone [TS]

  jack [TS]

  anyway that's the but I don't have the [TS]

  energy for that 280 yeah I had the the [TS]

  whole face recognition thing I i I'm [TS]

  sure they wouldn't do it if they [TS]

  couldn't do it really well right [TS]

  the same time fingerprint where the [TS]

  first fingerprint sensor was was pretty [TS]

  darn good [TS]

  yeah and like when you compared to [TS]

  previous fingerprint sensors at the time [TS]

  they were all really awkward and [TS]

  garbagey and Apple came out with a [TS]

  really good one and now they're all [TS]

  pretty you know they're all apparently [TS]

  used to be [TS]

  yeah I you know people saying now that [TS]

  they're like face recognition on their [TS]

  samsung whatever whatever it was was [TS]

  crappy [TS]

  I think again like I don't see Apple [TS]

  doing this unless they could do really [TS]

  well so I wouldn't worry too much about [TS]

  what these things have been like in the [TS]

  past other people but I still despite [TS]

  saying that I still think it's pretty [TS]

  unlikely that this is what they have in [TS]

  mind just because it it doesn't sound [TS]

  like it would be better it sounds like [TS]

  it would be worse [TS]

  yeah i guess the other thing too is that [TS]

  when i first heard these rumors a few [TS]

  months ago I was really really skeptical [TS]

  because it again same thing with the [TS]

  ipad for it so on a typical for Apple to [TS]

  introduce two generations of new stuff [TS]

  at the same time write like that if they [TS]

  do this the 7s and sevens plus are [TS]

  totally going to get lost because they [TS]

  are they're debuting his mid-range [TS]

  phones and that just hasn't happened [TS]

  before and the other aspect is that [TS]

  Apple has had so much success since the [TS]

  iphone 6 by selling to size phones it [TS]

  really three sighs so if you count the [TS]

  SC which is obviously a support price [TS]

  hit I mean they've admitted yet they [TS]

  underestimated demand for that so [TS]

  multiple sizes of proven so popular why [TS]

  in the world would they come out with a [TS]

  brand-new design at only one size [TS]

  but when you do all the math and think [TS]

  about this [TS]

  it's actually a pretty good-sized to be [TS]

  a one-size-fits-all because it's you [TS]

  know the usable display area is four [TS]

  point five point four or five inches [TS]

  more than the 4.7 inch phone diagonally [TS]

  8.35 inches less than 5.5 inch phone [TS]

  yes it was right in the middle right in [TS]

  the middle and the end errors a little [TS]

  bit on the bigger side [TS]

  yeah but physically in hand it's [TS]

  narrower than the 4.7 inch phone which [TS]

  is to me the biggest factor of what [TS]

  makes the iphone SE so so nice to hold [TS]

  is that exam narrow so in terms of like [TS]

  well you like something that fits in [TS]

  your hand really securely and that you [TS]

  can go from side to side with your thumb [TS]

  and you like the fit more information on [TS]

  screen at once like an iphone 7 plus and [TS]

  the last aspect to all these rumors is [TS]

  that it's supposedly going to have a [TS]

  iphone 7 plus caliber at least in the [TS]

  general range battery as opposed to the [TS]

  4.7 because that's the other factor i [TS]

  mean i know it i mean there's some [TS]

  people who just love the big phone and [TS]

  you and I both know people who have the [TS]

  seven plus and they don't even like the [TS]

  size but they do everything I think [TS]

  you're even talking about it where the [TS]

  battery life Allah is sometimes a reason [TS]

  enough to get it like I yeah it doesn't [TS]

  fit my pocket just too big to hold but I [TS]

  could use it all day and still have [TS]

  battery life at the end of the day [TS]

  although to be fair that was a lot more [TS]

  true of the six versus six plus it has [TS]

  been of the of the success or seven [TS]

  generations like the gap is now smaller [TS]

  yeah and to the point where now like the [TS]

  battery life on the seven is actually [TS]

  pretty decent and on the seven plus it [TS]

  is better but it's not better by as much [TS]

  as it used to be in the previous ones [TS]

  yeah it'sit's gotta say it's for it [TS]

  the seven has the best battery life for [TS]

  me I think of any iphone I've ever had [TS]

  yeah me too the only time i ever get [TS]

  down in a red is on days when I somehow [TS]

  had been a circumstance where I didn't [TS]

  even start the day with a hundred [TS]

  percent [TS]

  which is rare because usually I sleep [TS]

  with the charging but anyway [TS]

  alright let me take another break here [TS]

  and thank our third and final sponsor of [TS]

  the day do you think it's a guess [TS]

  hmm Casper Squarespace however we gotta [TS]

  become I guess 1m going to squarespace [TS]

  up Casper ah Casper you guys know Casper [TS]

  the obsessively engineered mattress and [TS]

  they sell it and shockingly fair price [TS]

  go to Casper com /d talk show and use [TS]

  that code the talk show and you'll save [TS]

  50 bucks towards any mattress insert x [TS]

  asterisk right there there's a footnote [TS]

  you have to wait for it [TS]

  here's the different conditions to apply [TS]

  Casper to me is it's it's like an [TS]

  apple-like company where to me [TS]

  design is making decisions and they've [TS]

  designed one perfect mattress you don't [TS]

  go to casper and select from like six [TS]

  different types of mattress and then get [TS]

  the size you want now you just pick the [TS]

  size you want that's it and then they [TS]

  send it to you and it's one perfect [TS]

  mattress they've engineered they have [TS]

  mattress engineers that's a real thing [TS]

  they spent a lot of money in time to get [TS]

  one mattress that's just is the right [TS]

  mattress for most people [TS]

  combination of support of memory foam [TS]

  and all sorts of other technology ships [TS]

  to you in a little box it's about it's [TS]

  the size of like a little like like a [TS]

  little dorm room refrigerator or maybe a [TS]

  little bigger than that but remarkably [TS]

  small for a big mattress you put in your [TS]

  bedroom you open a box following their [TS]

  instructions it sucks all the air out of [TS]

  the room to fill the mattress so you do [TS]

  you get lightheaded when you do it and [TS]

  you'll get kind of get dizzy but it's [TS]

  fun to be in a room and it happens it [TS]

  makes a very cool sound and then boom [TS]

  you've got great mattress [TS]

  I say it all the time it's going to a [TS]

  mattress store is gross because what you [TS]

  want to do you want to sit on a bed that [TS]

  all sorts of other people have come in [TS]

  and sat on and later on and whatever and [TS]

  laying honored mattress with bright [TS]

  fluorescent lights and a mattress store [TS]

  doesn't stimulate sleep so the fact that [TS]

  you can actually sit on a mattress in a [TS]

  retail store it doesn't really give you [TS]

  any better hint of whether you're gonna [TS]

  like the mattress you buy anyway so why [TS]

  he just trusts Casper buy it but next [TS]

  time you need a mattress they give you a [TS]

  hundred knight home trial if you don't [TS]

  love it they'll just give me a ring or [TS]

  go to the web site they'll pick it up at [TS]

  your house and give you a full refund no [TS]

  questions asked no hard sell this is not [TS]

  like it's not like sending your cable [TS]

  box back and cord-cutting where they do [TS]

  seem like a Gestapo after you get to [TS]

  really keep you now they're just say [TS]

  okay sure [TS]

  sorry you know here's your money back [TS]

  we'll come pick up the matters [TS]

  here's the asterisk they also sell a dog [TS]

  matters and i keep hearing from people [TS]

  who bought it for the daughter dogs [TS]

  didn't know that [TS]

  yeah they have a dog mattress and it's [TS]

  very very popular people who've got if [TS]

  listeners are the show have gotten it [TS]

  love it but here's the deal you don't [TS]

  save the 50 bucks on it because it's [TS]

  like a lower-cost mattress and this is [TS]

  the gist of it is I got a whole bunch of [TS]

  emails from people who bought the dog [TS]

  mattress and then they said hey I just [TS]

  wanted to say i love the mattress my dog [TS]

  loves it but the 50 bucks code didn't [TS]

  work [TS]

  i botched the first time they had the [TS]

  dog matters so anyway go to Casper [TS]

  constantly talk show remember that code [TS]

  the talkshow state 50 bucks toward your [TS]

  mattress unless it's a dog mattress but [TS]

  you'll get 50 bucks the love from your [TS]

  dog that will that will make up for it [TS]

  oh yeah alright when we talk about [TS]

  overcast overcast three point out just [TS]

  shipped yesterday and the update i knew [TS]

  you were working on this but I somehow [TS]

  had no idea that it was that close to [TS]

  shipping i think i was even on the beta [TS]

  was I on the patient yeah you were [TS]

  definitely on the list I don't know if [TS]

  you actually ever installed it but you [TS]

  were on the list i think i did i think i [TS]

  remember my overcast having the orange [TS]

  dot next to it but I don't [TS]

  I'd I never remember Denny I I'd I [TS]

  remember the switch the cards and [TS]

  talking to you about it and i remember [TS]

  playing with the slide on the car this [TS]

  was months ago though [TS]

  and.and you had it really when i was [TS]

  when i was in philly i showed you a [TS]

  prototype and override you play without [TS]

  my phone what you thought hops in right [TS]

  we're in ops and yeah i was playing with [TS]

  my head and it was already did the [TS]

  prototype was very very good i had very [TS]

  minor feedback but it was I could even [TS]

  find anything to complain about [TS]

  I forget what i wrote today that i write [TS]

  this today i know i wrote a bit about [TS]

  the business model but then I write [TS]

  about how if you do casual user not [TS]

  paying attention isn't going to be even [TS]

  know yet [TS]

  that's my two points is that it's a [TS]

  great update because it all these things [TS]

  every single thing you documented on [TS]

  your blog about the changes i think [TS]

  every single one of them it's like yes I [TS]

  totally agree this is better this is [TS]

  better this is better but i think a [TS]

  casual person who just wants to listen [TS]

  to podcast they they been if they have [TS]

  like auto updates on they may not even [TS]

  notice that but it's a new version [TS]

  yeah it's it's odd because here I was [TS]

  like you know really blessed in my [TS]

  button and just changing all that was a [TS]

  lot of work going into these changes and [TS]

  overcast three and then at the end when [TS]

  it comes time to like you know right the [TS]

  release notes and start like promoting [TS]

  it to people and all right well what's [TS]

  the list of new features and 31 out and [TS]

  it's like uh i redesigned a lot of the [TS]

  UI that's about it [TS]

  there's like there's like a couple like [TS]

  you features here and there but it's and [TS]

  there's a new watch app that's which is [TS]

  actually does less the old one but is [TS]

  way faster and that's about it like the [TS]

  the bullet point list of what is new [TS]

  this update is incredibly short unless [TS]

  you want to go through like itemized all [TS]

  the UI changes but nobody wants to read [TS]

  that because nobody cares what you care [TS]

  about is the whole thing like how how [TS]

  the whole thing feels works for you and [TS]

  everything else and there were tons of [TS]

  changes and tons of of time that went [TS]

  into this that most of which is fairly [TS]

  subtle or hidden or is the kind of [TS]

  change that you notice the very first [TS]

  day use it and then it just becomes [TS]

  normal and you you immediately stopped [TS]

  noticing it exits that's how this [TS]

  happens now and and you know and things [TS]

  like you know the whole the card you I [TS]

  took forever to get work at six so long [TS]

  and and so much work and there and there [TS]

  are still so many weird little [TS]

  considerations with it like one of the [TS]

  things i had to issue a quick [TS]

  three-point appoint one update because I [TS]

  i moved all of the like secondary [TS]

  screens in the app into these cards I [TS]

  have [TS]

  the reusable controller that i can use [TS]

  for anything now to put in one of these [TS]

  cards and the problem is that when a run [TS]

  iOS standard table view is in one of [TS]

  these cards in certain modes the reorder [TS]

  controls like the drag handles and [TS]

  you're gonna tables and reordering mode [TS]

  just don't work like it moves like you [TS]

  know two pixels and stops and it's only [TS]

  because it's in this card environment [TS]

  and a few a few of the implementation [TS]

  details of that and so I had to asian or [TS]

  another day today that just moved the [TS]

  playlist editor out of out of the cards [TS]

  because I otherwise you can reorder the [TS]

  priority podcast setting it's like we [TS]

  like and when I was developed there were [TS]

  so many weird cases like this where like [TS]

  some some part of the you i would fail [TS]

  in a weird way if it was moved to this [TS]

  card thing and and so I had to either [TS]

  try to figure out why it seemed like a [TS]

  work around it or we implemented in a [TS]

  different way so it wouldn't fail and [TS]

  that's just that's just what you know [TS]

  this that car thing is just one of the [TS]

  changes and they were just so like I [TS]

  mean just so many so much time going [TS]

  into seemingly minor things like that [TS]

  even other things like the full-time [TS]

  drag handles now on the playlist that is [TS]

  not easy to do in uitableview know I [TS]

  know that I did it [TS]

  it's not a collection of you it is still [TS]

  a table view and the way I did it is [TS]

  such an incredible hack and that took a [TS]

  long time to similarly like having [TS]

  having like the teapot style where you [TS]

  tap on the episode and a little row of [TS]

  buttons expands out from the bottom of [TS]

  it that you can then select actions from [TS]

  again [TS]

  Oh a seemingly small thing in the UI but [TS]

  that takes a long time to implement and [TS]

  to figure out how you have to abuse the [TS]

  system frameworks to let them let you do [TS]

  this like it's all like and you know you [TS]

  know from vesper stuff like a lot of [TS]

  times it's these little tiny [TS]

  implementation details of these little [TS]

  tiny interactions are you I affordances [TS]

  that they make all the difference in the [TS]

  world when you're using the app in like [TS]

  how nice it is to use or how easy this [TS]

  team knows but like one of those [TS]

  little-little behaviors are little [TS]

  animations are [TS]

  limitations might take you weeks to [TS]

  develop that one little thing its it is [TS]

  my opinion that the modern touch screen [TS]

  you I that was that started with the [TS]

  iphone is trickier and inherently more [TS]

  limited interaction model then the mouse [TS]

  pointer interface that we've had since [TS]

  you know the mac and be you know go back [TS]

  to the Xerox thing that was before the [TS]

  mac in a lot of ways so just and I think [TS]

  that most people don't think about it [TS]

  you don't have to that you shouldn't [TS]

  have to if you're not a designer but [TS]

  when you are designer you suddenly [TS]

  realize that you're you're limited in a [TS]

  certain way and so for example like this [TS]

  to say a list of things you have a list [TS]

  of rows and you can drag them to reorder [TS]

  it just all sorts of apps that do stuff [TS]

  like this on a Mac you would think well [TS]

  I could just click on the row i want to [TS]

  move up and hold the mouse button down [TS]

  and drag up and that's exactly how you [TS]

  do it you click on it and drag and you [TS]

  don't have to click and wait you just [TS]

  you could click and wait and then drag [TS]

  or you can just click and drag [TS]

  immediately and it just works but you [TS]

  can't do that on a touchscreen because [TS]

  if you're in a list and you just touch [TS]

  and immediately move down or move up [TS]

  your scrolling the list because touching [TS]

  on the list and move and moving your [TS]

  finger is how you do it so how do you [TS]

  take an item and move it up if you can't [TS]

  just touch on it and move up so it's you [TS]

  can have like a modifier he'll just hold [TS]

  down command the end the truth is [TS]

  there's no perfect solution [TS]

  there's a perfect solution with a mouse [TS]

  pointer which is just allow the user to [TS]

  click and drag on on touchscreens i [TS]

  could think that there's three ways I [TS]

  can think to do it [TS]

  Apple's usual way is to have an edit [TS]

  button in the top-right that you tap [TS]

  this edit button and then it switches it [TS]

  to a mode where there's like a little [TS]

  grippy strip over there and you can use [TS]

  that grip nice trip to drag things up [TS]

  and down and if you touch on the grippy [TS]

  strip and drag it won't scroll the list [TS]

  it will drag the thing up [TS]

  the way Vesper did it and a lot of other [TS]

  apps to do is you tap and hold and after [TS]

  a brief and you know again this is the [TS]

  sort of thing where you sit there and [TS]

  you play with little fractions of a [TS]

  second to see how long is too short how [TS]

  long is too long but you know your drag [TS]

  you know you're moving it because it [TS]

  visually pops up off the screen and you [TS]

  can see that it's sort of like raised [TS]

  and then you're you're moving the item [TS]

  up and down i like the solution you came [TS]

  with we just put the grips trips there [TS]

  all the time and so you can't scroll the [TS]

  list from over at the edge of the screen [TS]

  but you know most of it you can [TS]

  yeah and most people don't scroll that [TS]

  far the edge anyway so it's fine because [TS]

  you know what I found like I i made this [TS]

  whole blog post about like and actually [TS]

  looking at this this blog post was the [TS]

  release of overcast through and kind of [TS]

  the announcement of overcast three but i [TS]

  titled it design walkthrough because [TS]

  this really like this release really was [TS]

  effectively a redesign you know not like [TS]

  not like a hundred percent redesign a [TS]

  lot of things look kind of similar or [TS]

  the same but there's a lot more [TS]

  redesigning than anything else in this [TS]

  release and and it's because you know [TS]

  over the last couple years since I said [TS]

  one point out like I've gotten literally [TS]

  thousands of emails and tweets from [TS]

  people with feedback and some you know [TS]

  support questions this badly i've seen i [TS]

  basically had a lot of feedback to show [TS]

  me all the ways in which the old design [TS]

  failed and by that but I mean like you [TS]

  know people weren't able to find [TS]

  features that they wanted to find they [TS]

  couldn't understand the way something [TS]

  worked or something caused errors two [TS]

  and people due to air honestly invoke it [TS]

  or things like that and so they were one [TS]

  of them one of the major themes i [TS]

  learned over the last couple years is [TS]

  these built-in iOS standards things like [TS]

  tapping edit in the top right corner and [TS]

  then having a tableview switch its mode [TS]

  where you can delete or reorder or batch [TS]

  operate on on things in a list or even [TS]

  just swiping a table cell to delete it [TS]

  these things that you know we like power [TS]

  users have known literally since iOS 1.0 [TS]

  introduced most of them most people who [TS]

  use iphones these days don't know those [TS]

  things [TS]

  they'll never find that they don't know [TS]

  you can swipe on the table for you to [TS]

  reveal delete button right they don't [TS]

  they don't they never tap the edit [TS]

  button in the corner and if they if they [TS]

  do they quickly undo it because they [TS]

  don't really understand what it doesn't [TS]

  care so there's lots of like kind of [TS]

  assumed knowledge of platform standards [TS]

  that i went into with this that I think [TS]

  a lot of iOS developer still do that the [TS]

  reality is the customers don't have that [TS]

  vocabulary in enough quantity [TS]

  yeah i think that you can only really [TS]

  count on them finding what they can see [TS]

  exactly right and if you can't if the [TS]

  only way to do it is is a way that you [TS]

  don't see you have to do something to [TS]

  see it like slide the row they won't [TS]

  find it [TS]

  that's why you know if you look at an [TS]

  app like I think it's super successful [TS]

  app is an app like apples mail for [TS]

  iphone that's why there's a trash can [TS]

  when you're in a message for you but [TS]

  also why why you can swipe on the [TS]

  message in the list of messages and [TS]

  delete it from there [TS]

  yeah but that trashcan has to be there [TS]

  because asked me would be shocked to [TS]

  find out that you can delete a message [TS]

  any other way because like even you [TS]

  don't even like the edit button in the [TS]

  corner that is visible but it's not even [TS]

  obvious enough like what it does or why [TS]

  you like if you're in a list like what [TS]

  does that even mean to edit in the [TS]

  corner of this entire last episode like [TS]

  what like a lot of people just don't [TS]

  think that way they don't they don't try [TS]

  to to poke everything and CEO what is [TS]

  what is this weird word do that I that [TS]

  doesn't seem to specify anything in [TS]

  particular I hate to spring this on you [TS]

  but alright i'm in all episodes and [TS]

  there is an edit button up there [TS]

  yeah I don't know their I don't [TS]

  understand what it does i had it and [TS]

  then it says done and it just toggles [TS]

  between edit and done but what's [TS]

  different [TS]

  do you actually have the latest version [TS]

  i think so because normal what's [TS]

  supposed to happen is if you hit it [TS]

  you're supposed to get a little head on [TS]

  top that says edit play less than [TS]

  one-half and delete playlist on the [TS]

  other half and then all the rows turn [TS]

  into the multi-select toggle dots on the [TS]

  right maybe I don't have the latest [TS]

  version [TS]

  I don't know I thought I updated to the [TS]

  abstract version let me see if I make a [TS]

  new playlist [TS]

  I mean you might have found a bug but i [TS]

  might have our not supposed to work but [TS]

  anyway i agree with you though [TS]

  what about the so the other factor and [TS]

  we talked about it and and one of the [TS]

  things that let you do this and you and [TS]

  I have had discussions about this over [TS]

  the years you know that going back to [TS]

  Vesper and and overcast and that ok but [TS]

  let's just give up the end of the old [TS]

  model for indeed software developers is [TS]

  you free apps for you sell a version [TS]

  let's say it's thirty dollars and then [TS]

  you do version to point out and you [TS]

  still sell it for thirty dollars but you [TS]

  give your existing users and upgrade [TS]

  price maybe they get it for half off [TS]

  maybe they get the new version for 1499 [TS]

  maybe you sell it the upgrade for just [TS]

  999 but then the idea is you keep [TS]

  building users and the ones who stood [TS]

  keep using the app will every year or [TS]

  however often you come out with a major [TS]

  upgrade keep giving you upgrade money [TS]

  and that's what funds did continued [TS]

  development of the app because [TS]

  eventually you stop getting it you know [TS]

  you you max out on new users and you [TS]

  need to monetize your existing user base [TS]

  well there's no upgrades in the app [TS]

  store and so new models are called for [TS]

  if you want to sustain a nap [TS]

  I I think you've come across an [TS]

  interesting one because that the [TS]

  downside to the old model and as much as [TS]

  everybody you know I still kind of wish [TS]

  the appstore supported and allowed users [TS]

  the other developers the option of doing [TS]

  it [TS]

  the downside to it is that everybody [TS]

  seems to agree that the way you know it [TS]

  most cases people would decide whether [TS]

  to buy the upgrade to the new app or not [TS]

  based on what are the new features and [TS]

  so like that [TS]

  overcast three like when you say that [TS]

  it's hard to say like here's all the new [TS]

  features it may not sell as a paid [TS]

  upgrade because we're just what it's [TS]

  just a modernized you know version of [TS]

  the same UI [TS]

  to me this is the sort of thing I like [TS]

  I'm glad to pay for because it's exactly [TS]

  what i want a nap because like if you if [TS]

  you do it the other way like wherewhere [TS]

  you're dependent on that upgrade revenue [TS]

  for new features ever release then you [TS]

  get microsoft office where you have like [TS]

  there's there's all this pressure to [TS]

  just add more and more and more features [TS]

  even if it kind of makes the app worse [TS]

  to have more features added to it but [TS]

  that's the way that's what the incentive [TS]

  structure kind of forces you to do and [TS]

  that's why that's one of the reasons why [TS]

  you see these major apps like office and [TS]

  adobe creative suite trying to get away [TS]

  from that model moving towards [TS]

  descriptions so aggressively over the [TS]

  last few years and I think they've both [TS]

  pretty much completed that move [TS]

  yeah we're like you know now they're [TS]

  kind of free to do things better [TS]

  yeah supposed to like the old model of [TS]

  like having having to try to justify [TS]

  your revenue every single year with like [TS]

  eight bullet list of features that you [TS]

  added right it just it eventually even [TS]

  the it [TS]

  however much it was ever in dispute [TS]

  within those companies it becomes [TS]

  obvious to everybody that it's not [TS]

  sustainable forever [TS]

  you can't just keep adding more and [TS]

  consistent and and assume that that [TS]

  means better when you can for a while [TS]

  like you know if it and it's generally [TS]

  when things are young so when when the [TS]

  applications are young or like you know [TS]

  in the case of like you know Adobe and [TS]

  Microsoft a lot of their revenue came [TS]

  from people like you know os's were [TS]

  still young right and as os's would [TS]

  change you have to get the new versions [TS]

  of the app students work on the new OS [TS]

  computers were still young you be buying [TS]

  like a new computer [TS]

  like a new computer [TS]

  enter every three to five years or [TS]

  whatever it was that would be so [TS]

  different from your old one and so much [TS]

  better that you would buy new software [TS]

  to take advantage of it or whatever and [TS]

  like now everything is a lot more [TS]

  settled down in these in these [TS]

  industries and it's true mobile as well [TS]

  like you know the upgrade cycle getting [TS]

  longer for these things and and all the [TS]

  OS is our kind of settling down and and [TS]

  maturing and so the end and all these [TS]

  and if you if you've had any kind of you [TS]

  know long-standing problem in hell my [TS]

  podcast app is only like two and a half [TS]

  years old and I'm already running out of [TS]

  features i think i want to add to it [TS]

  like there's that a certain point you [TS]

  you add pretty much everything that you [TS]

  think it needs and its kind of done [TS]

  feature wise but that doesn't mean it [TS]

  can't be improved right so what you've [TS]

  arrived at after like you know again [TS]

  you've you've changed it suddenly with [TS]

  each major release but where you are now [TS]

  is it's a free download so anybody can [TS]

  get it try the overcast for free which i [TS]

  think is a essential in today's world is [TS]

  been free since day 1i I'm I don't [TS]

  regret that format right well i think [TS]

  you and i think it did proven right and [TS]

  because it's it's it's just you know [TS]

  I've said this before but I'd really do [TS]

  think it's true that when people there's [TS]

  just too many people who with their [TS]

  looking for a podcast app or they're [TS]

  looking for a note app or whatever the [TS]

  app is they'll start looking and they [TS]

  will start trying freeones and [TS]

  eventually one of the free ones [TS]

  well I guess this is good enough and [TS]

  that I'd never get past that they never [TS]

  get past it even if your app is [TS]

  ninety-nine cents [TS]

  there's just too many people who never [TS]

  ever say I'm gonna try I'm gonna I'm [TS]

  gonna cough up a dollar before I even [TS]

  try it just because the screenshots look [TS]

  good [TS]

  I mean some people will but it's not [TS]

  enough and you know there's too many [TS]

  free ones and there's too many free ones [TS]

  that really are good enough [TS]

  yeah well anyway there's that there's [TS]

  that saying like you're always fighting [TS]

  the last war like right I I apologize to [TS]

  John Syracuse for butchering that but I [TS]

  went out when i was running into paper [TS]

  it was never free during the time i ran [TS]

  i was paid upfront the whole time right [TS]

  i was really adamant about that had just [TS]

  had to be paid upfront that's how you [TS]

  have to make revenue [TS]

  and that was okay for the first couple [TS]

  years of the app store but then every [TS]

  competitor i got from that point forward [TS]

  what they were all free right like every [TS]

  every major competitor was free and i [TS]

  would and then Apple made reading list [TS]

  which was free of course because [TS]

  built-in and it's just like I really was [TS]

  marginalized by to a large degree by all [TS]

  of my competitors being free and and by [TS]

  the platform having this thing for free [TS]

  and by my appt having a big pay wall in [TS]

  front of it before anybody could even [TS]

  try it [TS]

  and so that's one of the reasons why and [TS]

  I was always afraid that a new [TS]

  competitor would come out that would be [TS]

  awesome and free because I i didn't have [TS]

  that for a long time and and so like it [TS]

  was like every morning I would wake up [TS]

  afraid to look at the news on my phone [TS]

  because what if today was the day of my [TS]

  business was crushed by a new awesome [TS]

  free competitor and so with overcast [TS]

  longs to free bit in part out of that [TS]

  because I was just like you know what I [TS]

  don't want to leave [TS]

  I don't want to leave that gap for [TS]

  anybody like I don't want to I don't [TS]

  wanna wake up every morning with that [TS]

  fear [TS]

  well you also have the advantage though [TS]

  and I i mean it that it's an advantage [TS]

  that Apple already had the podcast app [TS]

  exactly i was pretty sure locked and so [TS]

  like I en so it was it and that was a [TS]

  big reason why I was free because you [TS]

  know AI didn't want to leave you know [TS]

  what Apple calls a price umbrella have [TS]

  44 you know competitors to to beat me [TS]

  only on pricing if you want to beat me [TS]

  on quality fine i doubt play that game i [TS]

  will happily fight on that on that [TS]

  battlefront but I didn't want price to [TS]

  be the only thing people could compete [TS]

  with me or I'd rather I didn't want to [TS]

  be losing a lot of customers to someone [TS]

  else because of price i think you and i [TS]

  always was in the paper and and it [TS]

  killed me and so and i was at the time I [TS]

  was not a good enough business person in [TS]

  this regard to recognize at the time [TS]

  that I should have gone free and figure [TS]

  out something else back then but in the [TS]

  meantime I kind of figured that out and [TS]

  that's why i launched because i think [TS]

  you had an advantage that podcast apples [TS]

  podcast app isn't all it always has been [TS]

  pretty good [TS]

  and it's free and it's there and it's [TS]

  got the itunes store backing it and the [TS]

  fact that it's apple's app does it come [TS]

  with the phones or do you have to get it [TS]

  from the app store i forget heights they [TS]

  go back and forth like every few really [TS]

  systematically I forget what it is now [TS]

  at the fact that separate the fact that [TS]

  it's pretty good and very popular is a [TS]

  much better situation I I feel like we [TS]

  had Vesper we added it was a disservice [TS]

  to us that at that time Apple notes was [TS]

  garbage [TS]

  it was right it was a really bad app [TS]

  with really bad sink the only way to get [TS]

  sink was through imap how is a mess [TS]

  god bless him for having made it work [TS]

  but it just didn't work well and work [TS]

  terrible if your email was gmail because [TS]

  Jim it you get copies of messages over [TS]

  and over again that was terrible that i [TS]

  think i'm starting with iOS 9 it was two [TS]

  years ago where they haven't read notes [TS]

  and they build it on cloudkit and it's [TS]

  it's super good it's a really great it's [TS]

  a great note app and its really great [TS]

  sync the sink is terrific would have [TS]

  been better if that was already out [TS]

  because it would have calibrated our [TS]

  expectations like it wasn't like we [TS]

  assumed apple will never improve notes [TS]

  but we didn't know what it would be you [TS]

  know and it yeah exactly so right now [TS]

  you're what you do you get for free and [TS]

  for free you show ads and you started [TS]

  this when did you start September so [TS]

  just in September and you are using [TS]

  Google's mobile ad services and if you [TS]

  want to you want to get rid of the ads [TS]

  and you want to support the app you can [TS]

  subscribe for 10 bucks a year and it's a [TS]

  broader recurring or no it just reminds [TS]

  you in here now it's recurring because [TS]

  now we get a raise after year one if we [TS]

  do occur so right okay yeah right so [TS]

  anybody who's with you for more than a [TS]

  year if it's recurring you get an 8515 [TS]

  split exactly right which is a big deal [TS]

  yeah that might like there's like thirty [TS]

  percent is a lot and could be having [TS]

  that cut from from 3015 after year that [TS]

  adds up a lot as well it means you [TS]

  anything like you make are getting a [TS]

  raise [TS]

  you get a fifteen percent raise from [TS]

  your existing users it's actually kind [TS]

  of putting the old upgrade model of the [TS]

  other way around where you would get [TS]

  less money from your long time users [TS]

  because they're only paying the upgrade [TS]

  price now you're getting more even [TS]

  though they don't pay more [TS]

  this guy i have i have a strong [TS]

  incentive now to keep people subscribe [TS]

  long-term this is one of those areas [TS]

  with we're really is Apple the at I had [TS]

  everybody's interests align it's not [TS]

  necessarily that Apple is putting [TS]

  developers ahead of Apple itself because [TS]

  apple still makes money but that the [TS]

  motivation is there there there putting [TS]

  motivation out there to build apps and [TS]

  services that are worth keeping a [TS]

  multi-year subscription to yeah and [TS]

  that's in their interests in terms of [TS]

  not maximizing their revenue from the [TS]

  app store at any given transaction or [TS]

  any given renewal but in terms of making [TS]

  the platform more popular and getting [TS]

  you know which leads to people doing [TS]

  things like buying crazy new 11 hundred [TS]

  dollar iphones and it's great for users [TS]

  because the user doesn't pay more [TS]

  I pay the same ten bucks on my renewal [TS]

  for overcast and you just get more the [TS]

  money you get eight dollars and fifty [TS]

  cents instead of seven dollars [TS]

  yeah and a long time ago like when i [TS]

  when i launched the magazine it was [TS]

  there was a newsstand app a newsstand [TS]

  was the first thing to have these auto [TS]

  renew and subscriptions and this is back [TS]

  and I in iOS 5 and 6 and it the at the [TS]

  time ever the big blog post basically [TS]

  saying like other new subscriptions are [TS]

  terrible and I would never do them again [TS]

  and I wouldn't if they were the same but [TS]

  they're a lot better now like the [TS]

  everything about them now if they still [TS]

  have a lot of shortcomings but [TS]

  everything about them now is a lot [TS]

  easier to implement an easier for both [TS]

  developers and customers to deal with [TS]

  than it was in iOS 5 and spoke like now [TS]

  it's it is again there are still limits [TS]

  in particular I it's like you still [TS]

  can't tell if somebody has has told [TS]

  their subscription not to renew so [TS]

  effectively if they've cancelled and you [TS]

  have you don't know until it expires [TS]

  like you you know the date that it's [TS]

  supposed to renew but until that day [TS]

  comes and it doesn't renew you don't [TS]

  know they've canceled it and so that [TS]

  there's weird things with like if you [TS]

  want to also sell solutions through your [TS]

  website maybe and I like offer both [TS]

  payment options [TS]

  it's really hard to to reconcile these [