0:00:00zeon gold that's really the name of this
0:00:01thing it's pretty I'm pro gold yeah
0:00:04extreme special edition I mean if
0:00:07they're relieved since Kyle AKP I don't
0:00:08care what they call it but that's really
0:00:10a stupid name 18 cars Zeon gold are they
0:00:15gonna make a gold mac pro that would be
0:00:17amazing there could even be an addition
0:00:20that's solid gold John if the next Mac
0:00:25Pro is only available in rose gold at
0:00:27like actual rose gold not like pink
0:00:30aluminum the actual rose gold that would
0:00:32probably raise the price by $15,000
0:00:34would you buy that mac pro nope can't
0:00:37swing it what if I had a gaming video
0:00:39card in it yeah still no that's cold
0:00:43Marco no $15,000 computers sorry but
0:00:46well I mean at the rate that you replace
0:00:48them that actually isn't that ridiculous
0:00:50like how many cars have you had during
0:00:53the time you've had this mac pro well I
0:00:56got a lot more value out of the cars
0:00:57right so uh we should start with follow
0:01:01up as we always do Tyler la cloak lock
0:01:05has some a PFS boot experiments that he
0:01:08has performed would you like to tell us
0:01:10about that mr. filesystems he was the
0:01:12person who last week tweeted about
0:01:17booting a mac off of a PFS and we talked
0:01:20about it and follow up and one of the
0:01:23points that I made during that segment
0:01:25was that he had posted a screenshot of
0:01:27the gate info window in the finder of
0:01:29the volume that he booted from and it's
0:01:30at a PFS case insensitive and what I
0:01:33thought that meant was that the a BFS on
0:01:37his volume that he booted off was case
0:01:39insensitive and therefore all the weird
0:01:41problems that we discussed about trying
0:01:43to run Mac OS and its application like a
0:01:45sense of how systems wouldn't apply I
0:01:47should have looked a little bit farther
0:01:48down his tweet timeline because
0:01:50apparently he subsequently tweeted that
0:01:52finder and other utilities are confused
0:01:55about whether the volume is case
0:01:56insensitive or not rest assured it is
0:01:58case sensitive so it's kind of weird
0:02:01that the get info window says case
0:02:03insensitive but he tell me no no there's
0:02:06a pas all you ms case sensitive so again
0:02:08he's doing weird stuff on and unreleased
0:02:12you know betta everything so still
0:02:14doesn't tell us what the final
0:02:15incarnation of this is going to be
0:02:17whether it's at a point release of
0:02:18Sierra or whether to the next major
0:02:19version of Mac OS but that's super weird
0:02:22that the finer thinks is case
0:02:23insensitive but knows that it's a PFS
0:02:25but that the actual volume is case
0:02:29sensitive so oh well whew riveting it is
0:02:33is that this is this will be an
0:02:35important even though it seems esoteric
0:02:37as the follow-up we had a couple well
0:02:39last week or whatever but your programs
0:02:41won't work if its case sensitive like or
0:02:43they won't work for some period of time
0:02:44total developers update them it will
0:02:46make you sad so better hope they sort
0:02:49this out fair enough then we have a
0:02:52little bit of talk about the various
0:02:54cesspools in Silicon Valley is that
0:02:56redundant anyway um Tesla apparently is
0:02:59having some problems with harassment
0:03:01surprise surprise there's an article in
0:03:04The Guardian which i haven't had the
0:03:05chance to read what i intend to read
0:03:06tomorrow female engineers sues Tesla
0:03:09describing a culture of quote pervasive
0:03:11harassment quote you don't say
0:03:13technology and car company that's
0:03:15surprising yeah I put that in there just
0:03:18because the not so much about the
0:03:20specific story which this is actually
0:03:22interesting in that it's a current
0:03:23employee suing the company so that's you
0:03:25know another twist in this but just to
0:03:27reinforce the idea that we touched on
0:03:30last week about uber that although overs
0:03:32is surely an extremely egregious example
0:03:35that this problem is not isolated to a
0:03:37single company to a single person to a
0:03:39single bad animal I think it's not even
0:03:41isolated to a single industry although
0:03:43you know in the circles are traveling we
0:03:45tend to see tech things it is everywhere
0:03:46and when one of these stories comes up
0:03:48what it does is it makes the other
0:03:51stories come to the surface you know
0:03:52because it's you know a media trend or
0:03:56people feel more emboldened to come
0:03:57forward or people want to report on it
0:03:59more and they come in cycles but anyway
0:04:02it's everywhere and if you want to see
0:04:03another example there you go yep and
0:04:06then we have an entry in the hidden the
0:04:09show notes to her or not to burr and I
0:04:12presume that this is because a handful
0:04:14of listeners are very very astute
0:04:15listeners called out the fact that one
0:04:18of us very well may have been me had
0:04:20talked about with regard to WWDC flying
0:04:24into like San Francisco
0:04:25rather than San Jose and you know maybe
0:04:29we could just catch an uber to get down
0:04:30to San Jose after flying into San
0:04:32Francisco and and you know a few people
0:04:34had said hey that seems kind of
0:04:36disingenuous after you spent you know a
0:04:38fair bit of time complaining and railing
0:04:42against uber to then immediately say oh
0:04:44yeah I'll totally take an uber after
0:04:45that so it's actually me I thought
0:04:48pretty sure was me too said that it was
0:04:49Marco and he used it as a verb he said
0:04:51like uber up to over down to San Jose
0:04:53yeah and the reason why is because when
0:04:56were we recorded last week we didn't
0:04:59have time for the uber topic during the
0:05:01main show so we did it in the after show
0:05:02during the Edit I decided it was too
0:05:05important to have as an after show topic
0:05:07so i moved it forward in the show and
0:05:09and kind of promoted it like in the Edit
0:05:11to a regular main core show topics I
0:05:14thought it was important enough then you
0:05:16know I probably wouldn't have said that
0:05:17after having a discussion and I just
0:05:19kind of said without even thinking about
0:05:20it you know like at the time as soon as
0:05:23I said it I regretted saying it and
0:05:25because I that is exactly the kind of
0:05:27thing that I'm usually conscious of and
0:05:29it's the kind of thing where like yeah I
0:05:31kinda don't want to take uber anymore
0:05:33after all how horrible they are so
0:05:35anyway I I personally have since deleted
0:05:37uber off my phone there were plenty of
0:05:40previous reasons to do it but this is
0:05:41the big one to do it do it like now and
0:05:44I figure you know I don't actually use
0:05:46it that often because in my in my home
0:05:49city I don't need it but when I'm
0:05:52traveling I would use it often but i
0:05:54think i'm going to install lift now and
0:05:56try that instead because yeah it's it's
0:05:58not worth supporting that if we don't
0:06:00have to yep it's kind of like some
0:06:03people who tweeted at us about this
0:06:04point out like the Kleenex situation
0:06:05where because uber was first and is so
0:06:08famous and so prominent that you know 20
0:06:11birotte is like even though you are
0:06:14saying the word uber which is the name
0:06:15of a company it's just the generic term
0:06:17for a thing that makes a car come and
0:06:20get you because you tap stuff on your
0:06:21phone right yeah and so you could Boober
0:06:24for one place yellow with lift or
0:06:26whatever but anyway either way the
0:06:27larger question is given all this stuff
0:06:30are we gonna continue to use Hoover and
0:06:34you know I think all of us in our places
0:06:37where we actually live never have any
0:06:39for a service like uber at all so it's
0:06:41not really relevant only really over
0:06:43when we're traveling and there have been
0:06:45a lot of people deleting him off the
0:06:46phone and or otherwise vowing to never
0:06:50use it one of the interesting things I
0:06:52read about the people who drive gruber
0:06:56is that very often the drivers are
0:06:58working for multiple ones of these
0:07:00companies at the same time yeah so if
0:07:02you call for a lift or you call for an
0:07:04uber it could be the same person and
0:07:05starting to change what app is up on
0:07:07their phone which is interesting so it's
0:07:10not as if the purse the car the person
0:07:13you get is actually dependent on the
0:07:14company and lift like every other
0:07:19company I'm sure has its own fair share
0:07:22of problems and you know or people
0:07:25putting on the chat room problems
0:07:26dealing with down to the application
0:07:28itself you know always putting location
0:07:30on oh no this is the opposite that
0:07:32complaining the new burrow with has
0:07:33location anyway I recall reading lots of
0:07:37scary things about lift as well and that
0:07:39very often they were presented as the
0:07:40better alternative doober merely because
0:07:42it were is so incredibly terrible that
0:07:45the bar is low in some respects it's a
0:07:48little bit like airlines that we talked
0:07:51about before where we all know angry
0:07:54travelers maybe we have been this Angry
0:07:57traveler who has a bad experience with
0:07:59an airline and vows to never fly in them
0:08:01again and if you travel at all
0:08:05frequently you will eventually have that
0:08:08same experience with every airline and
0:08:10then you will literally be unable to fly
0:08:12because that because all airlines do
0:08:14something that is enough to anger people
0:08:17is that that's it I'm never flying delta
0:08:19again and they stick to it and they
0:08:21never fly delta again if you if you do
0:08:23that for five years of constant
0:08:25traveling you will be out of airlines
0:08:26and I wonder if ride-sharing services
0:08:29especially when subsidized by VC money
0:08:31that are basically trying to put taxi
0:08:33companies out of business so they can
0:08:34you know dance on their their grave and
0:08:37then raise their prices like I wonder if
0:08:40there are any good ride sharing company
0:08:42then it's not as if taxi services are
0:08:43all that great either every every one of
0:08:45these things seems to have some kind of
0:08:46problem so you know I'm certainly what
0:08:50I've heard I heard somebody say recently
0:08:52was the
0:08:52I'll still use uber but I'll hate myself
0:08:54every time I do it I don't know if
0:08:56that's the solution is a solution
0:08:57deleting nubra what if you use lift and
0:08:59you find out all sorts of horrible
0:09:00things but left eventually you can you
0:09:01not use any ride-sharing services it's
0:09:05hard to know what to do in these type of
0:09:06situations I think it is very similar to
0:09:08an a-line type situation but when there
0:09:11are alternatives obviously if you have
0:09:13any kind of choice at all and you think
0:09:16you really do think Hoover is the worst
0:09:17of the worst like don't pick them pick
0:09:20another company right and I guess you
0:09:23just keep doing that until you're out of
0:09:25ride-sharing company right hiring
0:09:27company what are they called it's not
0:09:28ride sharing what do you call a thing
0:09:30like uber I don't know private taxis but
0:09:33it's not a car service I don't know
0:09:34whatever it but like like you know
0:09:36usually this argument of like well
0:09:39they're all probably terrible when we
0:09:41might we just might not know how
0:09:42terrible the other ones are because
0:09:43they're like less in the public eye or
0:09:45we do know but it was like the two news
0:09:47cycles ago right especially and like I
0:09:50talked about previously with like you
0:09:51know how i buy things from amazon even
0:09:53though i know that in many ways amazon
0:09:55as a retail company is kind of horrible
0:09:57but i've worked another retail company
0:09:59before just enough to know that they're
0:10:02all pretty horrible and retail is just
0:10:04horrible business and so you know like
0:10:06the the smaller ones like what are we
0:10:08gonna do like oh I'm not gonna buy this
0:10:09thing at amazon I'm gonna buy it at
0:10:11walmart know like you know we're also
0:10:14making it like maybe i'll go to some you
0:10:16go to target well they're probably
0:10:17horrible and some other way to like it
0:10:19because retail is a horrible business
0:10:21and all the incentives kind of force
0:10:22everyone in it to be pretty horrible or
0:10:24to go out of business and so i decided
0:10:26like it's worth it to me to shop at
0:10:28amazon because it's just so much better
0:10:30than everything else and and their
0:10:32offenses aren't bad enough to to offend
0:10:36me enough to overcome you know the
0:10:38difference between them and anybody else
0:10:40in in morality versus the incredible
0:10:43convenience that they offer with uber
0:10:45though i think it's a little bit of a
0:10:46different situation because you know
0:10:47first of all uber in the grand scheme of
0:10:50things is pretty young and so it's hard
0:10:53for anybody to to look at what uber
0:10:55gives them in their life and say i can't
0:10:57i can't be without that because like
0:11:00will you were with that that like what
0:11:01five years ago like it wasn't it wasn't
0:11:03that long ago like chances are five
0:11:05years ago you weren't using anything
0:11:06like that and you still lived you still
0:11:08got around you still find a way to make
0:11:10that work how did you do that right like
0:11:11could you just go back to that how bad
0:11:14would it really be you know even if
0:11:16there is no other ride hailing companies
0:11:17like lift right like even if you can't
0:11:19get any other ones in area if it were
0:11:21the only one that serves your area how
0:11:23bad would it be not to use them and in
0:11:25some cases it actually is really bad
0:11:27like in some cases if your alternative
0:11:29is like well I can get an uber in 10
0:11:31minutes or because of where I am like if
0:11:33you're like you know in the in like know
0:11:35where Brooklyn and no cab will pick you
0:11:37up out there believe me I've been there
0:11:38this is before I used uber and you have
0:11:41to wait like literally you have to wait
0:11:43an hour and a half from midnight to 130
0:11:46am on a pier in Brooklyn because there's
0:11:50no cabs around you had to call a car
0:11:52service and that's the soon as they can
0:11:53come get you in that kind of case okay
0:11:57if we virtually the only thing that will
0:11:59serve you I can't really follow you for
0:12:01using it however most of the time for
0:12:04most people if Hoover serves you at all
0:12:07other options probably due to whether
0:12:10it's your regular taxi service or other
0:12:12car hailing services or mass transit or
0:12:15other like you know private you know car
0:12:18service and stuff like that like chances
0:12:20are if you use uber at all you probably
0:12:23have other options and they might be a
0:12:25little bit less convenient you might
0:12:26have to wait one or two extra minutes
0:12:28for a ride where you have to pay a
0:12:29dollar more but you have to decide for
0:12:32yourself if that's worth you know the
0:12:34the the moral say things are not and for
0:12:37me I think it's worth it yeah those up
0:12:39was that other one I heard about called
0:12:41fasten like fasten your seatbelts I
0:12:43guess another one that's at the very
0:12:45least in the the Pacific Northwest I
0:12:47heard a bunch of people talking about so
0:12:48it's not just uber and lyft there are
0:12:50probably other options maybe not all
0:12:52elimination wide so i guess check the
0:12:54app store and ask around to see what the
0:12:57other options are in your area you too
0:12:58can live an uber free lifestyle
0:13:00hopefully though and I mean it's easy
0:13:02for the three of us to say because we're
0:13:03white dudes but you know I've understood
0:13:05that in some ways it can be better if
0:13:07you're you know like a minority or if
0:13:09you're a woman that maybe maybe it's
0:13:11it's better for some reason to be to
0:13:13call an uber or perhaps a lift well
0:13:15maybe not an over there's a lot but a
0:13:16lot of horror stories about women
0:13:17getting picked up by overs okay maybe
0:13:19women with support
0:13:20Paul but you know maybe if you're a
0:13:21person of color or something like that
0:13:22you know maybe a taxi cab would would
0:13:26not take your fair where an uber or
0:13:28perhaps a lift would you know it's I
0:13:31guess what I'm driving at is it's all
0:13:32nuanced right ever it it's just a
0:13:35balancing act and you do what works best
0:13:38for you but I plan to before I go to San
0:13:41Jose which I think I'm going to be doing
0:13:44I plan to look into lift and understand
0:13:46if there's any differences in procedure
0:13:48or like you know tipping paradigms or
0:13:50anything like that I plan to try to
0:13:53understand what that is before I go so
0:13:56this way I can use left rather than uber
0:13:57and I should mention that um front of
0:14:00the show G McDonald who in the past has
0:14:03run or been deeply involved with a I
0:14:05guess she is still deeply involved with
0:14:07that camp for girls which is an
0:14:09organization that's near and dear to all
0:14:10of our hearts anyway she just for fun
0:14:12decided to drive I thought and I'm
0:14:15pretty sure I have this right for both
0:14:16uber and lyft and then ended up not
0:14:19doing it for uber anymore because she
0:14:20had some really bad experiences and I
0:14:22don't have her tweets handy where she
0:14:24talked about this unfortunately but you
0:14:26can look at um you can look at her
0:14:29timeline or just ask her about it and
0:14:31she'll tell you that that she drives for
0:14:34lift from time to time because she's
0:14:35just felt better about it I wish I could
0:14:38form i remember what was better but she
0:14:40seemed to think that the lift was a
0:14:41better experience for drivers and
0:14:43probably for writers to the pink
0:14:44mustaches right I mean here's the thing
0:14:47to like it's kind of hard to be worse
0:14:49than over like literally everything they
0:14:52do is horrible with the exception that
0:14:54they are kind of everywhere now but like
0:14:56the company is horrible the people at
0:14:59the top leading the company are horrible
0:15:01the app is horrible insult like the app
0:15:04itself is its own incredible case study
0:15:07of horrendous abusive fraudulent app
0:15:10design like it's it does so many creepy
0:15:13immoral things that that honestly should
0:15:16be or might even our might might be
0:15:19prohibited on iOS it's it's just a
0:15:22terrible app in front of a terrible
0:15:25service run by some really horrible
0:15:27people in again like in most cases if
0:15:30most the time if you're deciding between
0:15:31big crappy companies like airlines are
0:15:34doors I think the differences are
0:15:35usually smaller between them but in this
0:15:38case like my god is uber horrible like
0:15:40it would be really impressive for any
0:15:43other company in this business to be as
0:15:45horrible as they are well that's what
0:15:47the competition is for so here's one
0:15:49article from class next thing saying
0:15:51uber is quietly terrible for women and
0:15:53black people study says so there's an
0:15:54article on that so so much for being
0:15:57better for minorities or women and then
0:16:00another article saying a new business
0:16:02model same racist cab drivers that just
0:16:05talks about both uber and lyft and
0:16:06making it harder for people with black
0:16:08sounding names to get rides so like as
0:16:11with so many of these things are trying
0:16:13episode it's not it's not a problem with
0:16:15a particular company or particular made
0:16:17it's a problem it's a cultural societal
0:16:19problem because all these companies are
0:16:21made up of people who come from this
0:16:23culture and the society grant it very
0:16:25often they are the worst people but you
0:16:28know like the CEO of uber who was caught
0:16:30on video arguing as one of his drivers
0:16:31but just just boggles my mind there
0:16:34maybe he was drunk you don't have the
0:16:36self-awareness to understand that I
0:16:38don't even know if you can't if you
0:16:41can't be if you are the CEO of a company
0:16:42and you can't manage to be respectful
0:16:45magnanimous 45 minutes to one of your
0:16:48employees who's angry like it did bottle
0:16:50her on that you could be this bad at
0:16:51everything having to do with you anyway
0:16:54yeah so if you you know if you want
0:16:59peace fight for justice as they say I
0:17:01see if you want to solve the problem you
0:17:03really have to solve it of the brute
0:17:04you're not going to solve it by scolding
0:17:08spoiled tech CEOs but if you can at all
0:17:12if you could it all avoid giving money
0:17:15to what really seems to be the worst of
0:17:19the very worst of a business that is
0:17:20already in a slightly precarious
0:17:23situation in terms of you know all the
0:17:25articles going around about the the fact
0:17:27that goober is not profitable and is
0:17:28basically being funded by a venture
0:17:30capital to put tax companies out of
0:17:32business and if they ever succeeded in
0:17:33that they would just raise their prices
0:17:34and by the way they exploit their
0:17:36workers and that's this half of what
0:17:38these the argument with the CEO was
0:17:40about a thing I used to get paid X
0:17:41amount now I get paid so much less and
0:17:43the uber seeing I was saying he's just
0:17:45waiting to replace all these drivers
0:17:46with self-driving cars
0:17:47anyway and their self driving cars
0:17:48running through red lights and then who
0:17:50were lying about it oh it's a mess so
0:17:52bottom line is stay in your house and
0:17:53never go anywhere that is definitely the
0:17:57judge Siracusa answer to this problem
0:17:59yeah you wish that was the answer solves
0:18:01a lot of problems doesn't it it solves
0:18:03your problems yeah I don't think I've
0:18:05ever actually taken an uber on my on my
0:18:08account my wife has an account though we
0:18:09used it when i was in san francisco and
0:18:11i gotta tell you it was convenient i
0:18:12mean at my experience my personal
0:18:15experience with uber has really been
0:18:18very good truth be told i've never had a
0:18:20bad experience and it's always going
0:18:22pretty well for me but like i said
0:18:24earlier you know i i'm not comfortable
0:18:26with with the way the company as a whole
0:18:29and certainly the CEO seems to do
0:18:32business and that doesn't mean that
0:18:33they're that there's nothing but mean
0:18:35terrible people it over but certainly
0:18:36the people that are running the show
0:18:38seemed to be pretty consistently mean
0:18:40and terrible so because of that i intend
0:18:42to like i said try out life next time
0:18:44i'm out there yeah and that that's the
0:18:45best of it like every time i've ever
0:18:48been in an uber or even a taxi for that
0:18:51matter like the people who are actually
0:18:53driving like the leaf nodes of the org
0:18:55chart I've had good experiences now
0:18:57obviously that's not universal and again
0:18:58all the article you just listed about
0:19:00them refusing to pick up people black
0:19:01sounding names and picking up women and
0:19:03driving them around longer than they
0:19:04should be driving them and hitting on
0:19:05them and doing all sorts of terrible
0:19:06things like obviously that happens but
0:19:08it's kind of like when when you get mad
0:19:11a delta and vow that you love or fly
0:19:13with them again does I mean every
0:19:14employee of delta is an evil person
0:19:15certainly not and so it's a complicated
0:19:18thing we're like you're trying to punish
0:19:20the company and by withholding your
0:19:22business but what about the people who
0:19:26work for the company all they could just
0:19:27quit to work for a better airline can
0:19:29they what if they work in Atlanta and
0:19:30it's Delta's hub I don't know it's the
0:19:32whole the effectiveness and the sort of
0:19:37ethics of boycotts have always been
0:19:43complicated when it's not like a black
0:19:45and white kind of you know pervasive
0:19:50issue like you know segregation or you
0:19:53know bus boycotts and stuff like that
0:19:54this is slightly more nuanced but I
0:19:58think if there's something you can do
0:20:01that's straight forward like marketer
0:20:02said just you know call cab use a
0:20:04different company it's so easy to do you
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0:22:14so Marco you had a big day today as we
0:22:19record on Wednesday as per usual
0:22:21overcast ads are available for purchase
0:22:24from anyone that has an overcast account
0:22:27and that's exciting and in what is what
0:22:31surprised me but really shouldn't have
0:22:32surprised me you have a really neat
0:22:34little table here that's that's
0:22:35presumably all integrated with your ad
0:22:37back-end that shows availability and
0:22:39prices and some analytics sort of kind
0:22:43of some estimated analytics and it's all
0:22:45much more mature that I would have
0:22:47expected the way you painted it when
0:22:49we've talked both on the show in
0:22:51privately I don't know I just got this
0:22:52impression that this was a little bit I
0:22:54don't know grab-ass but as it turns out
0:22:56this is this is legit this is the real
0:22:58deal and you've clearly put a whole lot
0:23:00of orbit this is grab-ass plus CSS
0:23:02chaser but anyway but this is super
0:23:07exciting you've already had a few
0:23:09categories sell out so how's things
0:23:11going i mean it certainly looks from the
0:23:13outside like it's going really well i
0:23:14mean so far it's going great like and
0:23:17you know this is not an indication of
0:23:20how it's going to be going long term
0:23:21because no one including me and the
0:23:24people buying the ads has any idea like
0:23:26what is a podcast ad worth because mote
0:23:29you know there are some of the some of
0:23:31these ads are for websites or apps but
0:23:33most of them by far most of them are for
0:23:36podcasts and so I really and as I by the
0:23:40way I love that that ratio like I do
0:23:42want the ability to advertise for for
0:23:44both types of things but I also would
0:23:46prefer if most of the ads were podcast
0:23:49as I'm actually considered having having
0:23:52actually be two separate inventory types
0:23:54so it would actually sell separate slots
0:23:57possibly at different prices like maybe
0:23:58pocket podcast ads would be cheaper than
0:24:00website ads and I just that was too much
0:24:02complexity so I just didn't build it out
0:24:04and I might do it later but probably not
0:24:06you know basically it's kind of cool
0:24:09that in a podcast app I can now have ads
0:24:12for other podcasts because it makes it
0:24:15kind of not feel like an ad anymore and
0:24:17I've like this is one of the reasons why
0:24:19I added the option for paying
0:24:22subscribers who normally just
0:24:23automatically wouldn't see any ads i
0:24:25added a setting in in
0:24:27settings for them a check box for them
0:24:30to trim the ads on you know if for
0:24:32everyone else it just is on and they
0:24:33can't turn it off but for paying people
0:24:35one of the benefits normally that you're
0:24:36paying for is not to see ads but these
0:24:38ads are kind of nice it like it turned
0:24:40out really well and there and so far
0:24:43they're actually there are like podcast
0:24:44and a good number of them and good
0:24:46quality ones buying the ads I mean I'm
0:24:49literally only about you know four hours
0:24:52or some or so into the ad sales so it's
0:24:56it's very hard for me to really know
0:24:58what this is going to be life long term
0:24:59but in the short term it's really easy
0:25:01it's really nice it's really nice like I
0:25:04built the system it's a pretty
0:25:07straightforward like basic you know
0:25:10database thing with basic tracking in
0:25:13the app of views taps and subscriptions
0:25:15the payment is all through stripe
0:25:17because stripe is amazing i love stripes
0:25:20so much what did we do before strive
0:25:23actually i'll tell you what we did
0:25:24before stripe paypal and it was a dark
0:25:26time oh my we said a dark time i'm gonna
0:25:30tell you about dark times before paypal
0:25:32we had banks of modems that would they
0:25:34would dial the credit card companies and
0:25:36transfer information using archaic
0:25:38protocols from our linux servers phone
0:25:40lines actual phone lines that's how we
0:25:42did credit card processing was that
0:25:44actually worse than paypal i don't know
0:25:45yes have you ever tried to do
0:25:48subscriptions in paypal phone lines and
0:25:50modems are among the least friendly
0:25:52things you ever want to be wrangling at
0:25:54a data center that is not in the same
0:25:55building as you have you ever used
0:25:57paypal i have i mean paypal will
0:26:00eventually freeze your can take all your
0:26:01money but the phone line situation made
0:26:04it so hard to even get money in the
0:26:05first place yeah well anyway so this is
0:26:08all built using some you know nice easy
0:26:10stuff with stripe is the payment gateway
0:26:12i even accept Apple pay which is kind of
0:26:14cool but could they make it really easy
0:26:16so I literally like you know you put in
0:26:18a few HTML divs and you enable this
0:26:20thing in your site and then you have
0:26:21Apple pay so you can go to my site and
0:26:24buy an ad with your fingerprint in like
0:26:25three seconds it's kind of awesome it's
0:26:29incredibly satisfying and so yeah that's
0:26:32that's what I've been working on the
0:26:33last week or so is just building the
0:26:35system out and there's still a lot I
0:26:38have to do like basically tomorrow I
0:26:40have to build system to
0:26:41notify people when categories become
0:26:44available that are sold out that's
0:26:45something I kind of added last minute
0:26:46tonight because a bunch of things so
0:26:48that my amelie got a bunch of emails to
0:26:49people saying hey I got here too late my
0:26:51category sold out can you put me up for
0:26:53the next one and honorable I don't
0:26:55really want to give the business of like
0:26:56having to maintain a thousand different
0:26:58relationships with people and eating on
0:26:59them and then what if it sells
0:27:00beforehand then like they're out of luck
0:27:02and I email them so obviously build it
0:27:04very simple like notify me thing I
0:27:06already built the system to record your
0:27:08intention to be notified I just haven't
0:27:10actually made the notifications yet
0:27:11because now I have 30 days to do that
0:27:14because all these ads have their dales
0:27:15that is the most Marco thing supposed
0:27:18Marco comments I've ever heard oh I'd
0:27:20have to worry about that for everyone
0:27:21yeah it's similarly like I want the ad
0:27:24to email the person who bought it when
0:27:27it expires to tell them your ID is
0:27:29expired click here if you want to buy
0:27:31another one and I haven't built that yet
0:27:33either because I have three days to
0:27:34build that too but yeah so for the most
0:27:38part they're the system is pretty much
0:27:39like it's you know three quarters of the
0:27:41way done like all the core stuff is
0:27:43there except in the payments you know my
0:27:45my admin administrator interface to
0:27:47approve or reject and refund them all
0:27:51sorts of you know payment handling
0:27:53things that were actually surprisingly
0:27:55easy because stripe is so good I mean
0:27:58jeez like stripe kind of embarrasses
0:28:00everything else I do like in like every
0:28:04other part of this was more complicated
0:28:07and took more work and more fiddling
0:28:09than the entire payment processing just
0:28:13kind of amazing you would think that
0:28:14would have been the worst because that's
0:28:15arguably the most important since it
0:28:17involves money but no apparently not
0:28:19yeah I so I have some questions so you
0:28:21had made mention that you would this
0:28:23took you like a week so last I heard you
0:28:26had demo ads in the app you know
0:28:30obviously I'm on the beta so I'm seeing
0:28:31these like you know cam dads that well I
0:28:33guess they weren't entirely demo they
0:28:34were kind of like first run ads they
0:28:36were real ads i had just inputted the
0:28:38manually into the database right because
0:28:40there was no interface for people to buy
0:28:41them mhm and so that was running for a
0:28:44little bit and then how long did it take
0:28:46you to do this whole back-end you said
0:28:47about a week yeah about a week well it
0:28:49because like i already had the system in
0:28:52you know between the app and the sync
0:28:53service i already had the system to
0:28:55serve the as to the app have the app
0:28:58show them record their stats and then
0:29:00transmit the stats back on the next sink
0:29:03and so that and then so I had like
0:29:06everything I had basically the whole
0:29:07back end of like serving and tracking
0:29:10the ads so all I had to do was the
0:29:12creation editing and buying of the ads
0:29:16and that's not a small amount of work
0:29:17but in the grand scheme of things is
0:29:19only about half of it so when one goes
0:29:22to buy an ad you you select you know a
0:29:24price and the first thing you're
0:29:26presented with is choosing ad type you
0:29:28can either search for a podcast or you
0:29:30can provide a URL what happens after
0:29:32that like it would I be providing art or
0:29:35blurb or what what what what is
0:29:37customizable here try it you don't have
0:29:40to pay till the very end so I'm not
0:29:42gonna I'm not gonna like send you an
0:29:43invoice it's very much you will know
0:29:45when you're paying it works for me I got
0:29:49a little scared I don't mess with it
0:29:50alright so I have a title description
0:29:52you gotta support arrow keys in return
0:29:54in your autocompletes come on oh my big
0:29:57shirt my podcast search box yeah that's
0:29:59a big custom thing yeah if I hit down
0:30:01our to select and hit return it's like
0:30:03nope I haven't looked at that coaches
0:30:052014 it might support it easily i'm not
0:30:07sure i'm using this this pure framework
0:30:09which probably doesn't even exist
0:30:10anymore i don't know it like it was the
0:30:12smallest like CSS type framework i could
0:30:15find in 2014 so i put it in but anyway
0:30:19it doesn't really matter it does not oh
0:30:21this is very slick okay so I've put in
0:30:23this is a difference between John and I
0:30:25John is advertising for a podcast
0:30:27presumably one that has other people on
0:30:29it me I put in my own URL anyway Marvin
0:30:32the dog was this frequent test URL don't
0:30:34worry so I have a title description a
0:30:38URL and optional image and then what I
0:30:41really like is you have a little preview
0:30:42right then and there that shows you
0:30:44approximately wanted to look like and
0:30:46then like you said ready when you're
0:30:47ready either Apple pay or pay with card
0:30:48super cool i really like this and so so
0:30:52basically the idea is you are either
0:30:53advertising for a podcast or anything
0:30:58that can relate to the web anything that
0:31:00has a URL yeah so you know apps websites
0:31:03you know and yeah anyway nice any
0:31:05website that's pretty cool and and so
0:31:08the initial take rate seems pretty good
0:31:11from what i can tell i mean you're sold
0:31:12out in a few few different things I
0:31:14there's nothing that has no purchases
0:31:18nope that's lots available oh I'm sorry
0:31:21I misread yeah so health has no
0:31:23purchases but but there are other
0:31:25categories that have all the other
0:31:26categories have at least one fair enough
0:31:28well so you obviously massively
0:31:30underpriced this stuff I actually raised
0:31:32the prices about an hour ago because
0:31:34they sold too fast and i noticed that i
0:31:37know but like it's to it but anyway live
0:31:39and learn there'll be another 30 days I
0:31:42did kind of want this to be a quick sale
0:31:44because one of the big challenges that I
0:31:47that I went is this with is all those
0:31:50categories to say not enough data yet
0:31:51because I just haven't had test ads in
0:31:54those categories and so I really need to
0:31:58know like what categories even get good
0:32:01traffic and then the pricing is kind of
0:32:04a guess like you know business sold out
0:32:06really quickly and I had it in the in
0:32:08the low price category because I didn't
0:32:10think it was as high traffic as the
0:32:11other ones in overcast but now I'll find
0:32:15out if that's true or not if it is true
0:32:16i'm going to move it up to the little to
0:32:17the dark gray section between all and
0:32:19the others that's like the the
0:32:21mid-priced ear and then that's why i
0:32:23should an auction system because the
0:32:24market will decide what's valuable
0:32:25because it's not just the traffic it's
0:32:27like how valuable of the people is in
0:32:28the business podcast maybe they all have
0:32:30lots of money and buy expensive stuff
0:32:31all the time so they're more valuable to
0:32:32advertise to maybe I mean you know i can
0:32:35just the price is obviously individually
0:32:36if I need to but ultimately I would
0:32:39rather have the inventory sell out more
0:32:42often than to extract every possible
0:32:45last dollar out of the highest bidder
0:32:46because I want there to be a lot of ads
0:32:48in the system because that would people
0:32:49see a nice variety in their apps and and
0:32:51it kind of gives more people a chance to
0:32:54advertise in the app so that I would
0:32:57prefer sold out inventory to necessarily
0:33:00the absolute highest price again I have
0:33:02no idea how hard it's going to be to
0:33:05sell these ads in you know six months a
0:33:08year I have no idea it could be really
0:33:11easy this could require very little
0:33:12effort on my part or might have to like
0:33:14actually start like you know keeping
0:33:16this email list like quote reaching out
0:33:18to people and reaching all over them to
0:33:20get them to buy an ad like I don't know
0:33:21like it
0:33:22it's sudden you'll be on to the next
0:33:24business model anyway so it'll be fine
0:33:25that's true it's gonna be hard to beat
0:33:27this like if this keeps going the you
0:33:30know anywhere near what it is now first
0:33:33of all I've made today enough for
0:33:36something like eight months of the
0:33:38google ads wow that's all I don't know
0:33:40if I'm gonna make this every month but
0:33:42it it certainly shows like this was
0:33:45probably the right move and if if if i
0:33:48even get you know a quarter of this i'm
0:33:51happy with that yeah I feel like it's
0:33:54gonna go up I felt next month is going
0:33:55to be higher because you have to raise
0:33:57these prices you just have to and then
0:33:59even if it's slowly tapers off from the
0:34:00course of a few years the only thing
0:34:02that'll make you stop it which is which
0:34:03is a thing that may happen but the only
0:34:05they'll make you stop is if you find it
0:34:06too annoying I guess that is that that
0:34:08is the thing that's going to get this I
0:34:10feel like yeah i mean that's that's
0:34:12certainly the the main limiting factor
0:34:14is like how much of my time will take
0:34:15but the good thing is this is a really
0:34:17easy thing to have someone else help
0:34:19with yeah that's sort of true but right
0:34:21now like I'm doing it myself right now
0:34:22because I don't want to immediately I
0:34:25asked for something like this because I
0:34:26want to know first of all how is it
0:34:27doing and you want to do those two
0:34:28really kind of run it myself so I want
0:34:30to know how it works for everybody all
0:34:32right at the front I want to know what
0:34:33all the needs are hat you know what the
0:34:35what the pain points are so I can fix
0:34:37them and then I need to know like is
0:34:40this even the kind of thing I need to
0:34:41outsource to someone else or is it so
0:34:44little work that I can just do it myself
0:34:45you know if it's sending 50 emails on
0:34:48one day a month that's that's a decent
0:34:51man of work but I could probably do that
0:34:52myself you know so you know we'll see
0:34:55we'll see what elections up being again
0:34:57it's way too early to tell but the very
0:34:59early indication suggests that it's
0:35:02pretty good what's a super awesome now
0:35:05so you're doing all the approving by
0:35:07hand using your little admin interface
0:35:09yep have you had to deny anyone as yet
0:35:13that wasn't clearly just spamming you
0:35:15for the sake of being a jerk no I mean
0:35:17one of the things is you have to pay to
0:35:18even submit it like all right yes like
0:35:21in in like the in crud web app terms it
0:35:23literally doesn't even save the database
0:35:25record until it has a payment the
0:35:28payments all like in you know in like
0:35:30the temporary session post variables
0:35:32until you actually until it's paid so
0:35:35that so that basically makes it
0:35:36spammable from a pure spam perspective
0:35:38it puts ups you know a pretty big
0:35:40barrier that and so and then you know
0:35:43and I am human reviewing the mall to
0:35:44just make sure they're not like obscene
0:35:45or you know hate content or anything
0:35:47else and there was one one person
0:35:50submitted one that had a word that some
0:35:53people might consider a bad word it's
0:35:55not like one of the big ones but it's
0:35:56like a kind of ancillary one so so I
0:35:59went back to that person like hey do you
0:36:01mind if I edit this and we worked out a
0:36:02different copy and then that was it and
0:36:04I approved it so that that was the only
0:36:05the only one that even required any
0:36:07review at all nice and you know what's
0:36:09amazing about this when google sells ads
0:36:12on my behalf i get something like I
0:36:16think sixty percent of it when Apple
0:36:19sells anything on my behalf I get
0:36:22seventy percent of it or maybe a year
0:36:25later for subscriptions if I'm lucky
0:36:27eighty-five percent of it when google
0:36:31pays me money it's money that I earned
0:36:32like you know six weeks ago that i
0:36:34finally got paid for when apple pays me
0:36:36my money it's again similarly about
0:36:38money I earned about six weeks ago with
0:36:40these stripe ads i'm earning i think
0:36:43about ninety seven percent of what they
0:36:45sell for and it gets deposited my bank
0:36:47account in two days that's it's really
0:36:51kind of amazing to be out of the like
0:36:53walled garden ecosystem for once that's
0:36:56super cool so initial reaction things
0:36:59are going great yeah how do you think
0:37:02you're going to play with the pricing
0:37:04for now like are you going to i get i
0:37:07guess it let's suppose you sell out in
0:37:09the next 48 hours there's really no
0:37:11impetus to mess with pricing until the
0:37:14end of the month unless you want to cut
0:37:15down on the people that asked to be
0:37:17notified right i well I guess I mean I
0:37:20mean I probably a good business plan to
0:37:22cut down on the number of interested
0:37:24parties but I guess what I'm saying is
0:37:26there's no there's no reason for you to
0:37:28raise your prices now once you sell out
0:37:30unless you want to prevent people from
0:37:33saying notify me you know let's say the
0:37:35all goes from as we record it's less
0:37:37than a thousand dollars and let's say it
0:37:39becomes 3000 tomorrow all you're really
0:37:42accomplishing since it's sold out is is
0:37:44you're preventing me from being
0:37:45interested because I maybe I would have
0:37:47spent less than a thousand but I'm not
0:37:48going to spend three thousand
0:37:49you know what I mean so yeah you don't
0:37:51really need to mess around with pricing
0:37:52for like 30 days right yeah I mean for
0:37:56the most part like you know unless
0:37:57things are not selling that I might low
0:37:59it right or not selling like that health
0:38:01category but you know for the most part
0:38:04I think I'm gonna treat this the same
0:38:06way I've treated any other kind of thing
0:38:07where I set the price for an ad so our
0:38:10podcast ads you know my website ads when
0:38:13I sold our RSS sponsorships things like
0:38:15that and the way I've done this
0:38:16basically is if they sell out way too
0:38:19fast when I go to sell them every is the
0:38:21price a little bit until things start
0:38:23selling still a reasonable pace like I
0:38:25don't want it to be like pulling teeth
0:38:26to get things sold but slowly enough
0:38:29that it's not like a stampede and then I
0:38:32get 50 angry emails people saying oh I
0:38:33missed my chance to buy like you know
0:38:35that's that's no good either that's also
0:38:37it's not great for business necessarily
0:38:38so i think i'm just going to control the
0:38:42prices slowly and you know maybe maybe
0:38:45when next month rolls around i will you
0:38:48know see how it sells at the new higher
0:38:49price from an hour ago instead of the
0:38:51initial prices which will which are
0:38:52about i think about thirty percent lower
0:38:54you know i'll see how it sells at these
0:38:57new kind of higher prices and if it
0:38:59sells out just as fast then maybe for
0:39:02the month after that then maybe i'll
0:39:03raise it a little bit more but if it's
0:39:06selling out like at a reasonably healthy
0:39:08rate then I'll just leave it the way it
0:39:10is really you really nailed it this
0:39:12looks great thanks so let's assume this
0:39:16is super successful for a year just for
0:39:18the sake of discussion are you at all
0:39:21interested in expanding i think we
0:39:23talked about this a little bitter but
0:39:23are you all interested in expanding into
0:39:26being like i ad for other people so to
0:39:28speak you know and and oh and either
0:39:31white labeling your ad platform or just
0:39:34extending your ad platform to anyone
0:39:36elses at apps probably not I it because
0:39:40like once you become an ad network for
0:39:42other people that's a very different
0:39:44business and it's a much higher needs
0:39:46business for you know just dealing with
0:39:48people dealing with everyone else's
0:39:50money dealing with staffing and doing
0:39:52people's issues and it's a much bigger
0:39:55business it's a much higher touch
0:39:56business and this system I built kind of
0:40:00in response to other types of
0:40:03I've done where it's like you know for
0:40:05like blog ads and podcast ads where a
0:40:06lot of times you know you have to like
0:40:08rehearse of sponsors you have to you
0:40:11know coordinate with them via four or
0:40:12five different emails you eventually
0:40:14like put the ad and you're-- it you book
0:40:16the ad in your system you do the ad and
0:40:17you have to invoice them and then they
0:40:19might take six months to pay the invoice
0:40:21like we see we've seen the whole whole
0:40:24spectrum some people pay the next day
0:40:25some people pay a year later or not at
0:40:27all and it's a very just intensive
0:40:31process and there are tools like fresh
0:40:33books that make it easier but it's it's
0:40:36still a lot of just human work and just
0:40:39dealing with administration to just do
0:40:42the basics of selling and getting paid
0:40:43and so with this I I really created this
0:40:46to be as simple as possible and this is
0:40:48actually one thing's going to keep the
0:40:49prices kind of low because most big
0:40:53companies who would sponsor things like
0:40:55this who would buy these ads if it's
0:40:57below a certain price oftentimes that's
0:40:58a thousand dollars it requires less of a
0:41:01process for them to approve the payment
0:41:03so you know a lot of times big companies
0:41:05if you if it's more than that you'll
0:41:06have to go through like an official you
0:41:09know requisition process or some other
0:41:10you know garbage full of paperwork and
0:41:12overhead but if it's you know if it's if
0:41:16it's lower if it's like a you know a sub
0:41:19one thousand dollar price for something
0:41:20a lot of times you can just put that on
0:41:22a credit card and be done with it and
0:41:24not have to worry too much about it so I
0:41:26want to keep these prices in that range
0:41:28so that way I can have the system i have
0:41:31now which is look if you want one of
0:41:33these it's self-serve you you go to my
0:41:35site you set it up you pay right there I
0:41:39don't even see it until you pay because
0:41:41I don't want to have to be chasing you
0:41:42down in a year you didn't pay your
0:41:43invoice ok I hate that so much and so
0:41:47like this system is very much like
0:41:49keeping it as simple as it possibly can
0:41:50keep it and part of that it requires the
0:41:53prices be kind of low that definitely
0:41:55requires that everything remains
0:41:56self-serve and it requires that not a
0:41:58lot that I'm doing involves human
0:42:00interaction from me because if that's if
0:42:02that's what it ends up needing to be
0:42:03I'll have to hire someone else to help
0:42:05me because I don't have the time to be
0:42:07dealing with a lot of effort into the
0:42:09system but in order to keep at that size
0:42:12and that scale I basically have to keep
0:42:15it my appt only I can't
0:42:17come an ad network for any other apps
0:42:19because that will that will by nature
0:42:21make it a bigger more complicated thing
0:42:24the prices would probably go up I'd have
0:42:26to start dealing with people stupid
0:42:27invoice systems and I just don't want to
0:42:29deal with that that's not the business I
0:42:30want to be in does makes a lot of sense
0:42:33I you know the thing that impresses me
0:42:36about you is that maybe I mean I'm just
0:42:38a big wimp but the audacity of doing
0:42:41something like this like aw screw it
0:42:42I'll saw my own ads why not like there's
0:42:44no way in a million years maybe I would
0:42:47have had the thought if I were in your
0:42:48shoes but I'd look at this and be like
0:42:50yeah I'm not gonna do that there's no
0:42:51way that'll work and good then good on
0:42:54you for not only having the the I don't
0:42:57know fortitude to do it but to make it
0:43:00happen it's so far seems successful like
0:43:02John has said I think the ticking time
0:43:05bomb is about a year away until you do
0:43:07another business model change so I
0:43:08canceled fail miserably I I don't I was
0:43:11mostly doing as a joke is if it like
0:43:12like Mara said if it continues like this
0:43:14or better like there's no reason to
0:43:15unless I don't like I said unless
0:43:17somehow it becomes too much of a burden
0:43:19for mark or deal with it I don't see how
0:43:21it would because everything he just
0:43:22outlined about how he doesn't have to do
0:43:24anything and doesn't have to chase
0:43:25people for money and doesn't have to get
0:43:26money on behalf of other people like I
0:43:28you know again maybe he's leaving money
0:43:31on the table by saying I'm going to try
0:43:33to keep it in the in the petty cash
0:43:34range but if that's enough money then
0:43:36it's fine and it should be sustainable
0:43:39same could have probably been set up at
0:43:41all the past plans so again we have to
0:43:42wait to see how it's going to be but if
0:43:43it actually continues like this
0:43:45sustainably I don't really see any
0:43:47reason for him to change models yeah and
0:43:50completely because like the sales would
0:43:52have to go down a lot for it to make
0:43:55sense for me to look another model again
0:43:57because right now I have pretty much
0:43:59everything I want I have a way to get
0:44:02sustainable income I have my peg
0:44:04subscriber still which is it's only a
0:44:07nice sustainable income that can almost
0:44:09support the whole business by itself so
0:44:12this is kind of just bonus money and
0:44:14this is monetizing all the free users
0:44:15finally in a way that actually works
0:44:16because the ads really didn't do that
0:44:19well enough the other the previous ads
0:44:20so this is kind of a great system as
0:44:23long as it continues to sell the
0:44:25inventory at any reasonable rate and you
0:44:29know day one again it's it's a
0:44:31possible to say I mean you know what
0:44:33once you have the kind of audience that
0:44:35my app has I i could sell out day one
0:44:38pretty easily but the question is what
0:44:42happens on day 365 when people have had
0:44:45a year worth of buying these ads to see
0:44:47what they're actually worth and what if
0:44:49they're worth a lot less than what i'm
0:44:50charging obviously have to lower my
0:44:51prices but like what are they worth we
0:44:53don't know there I don't has ever been a
0:44:56system where you could advertise for a
0:44:59podcast in a podcast player so this is
0:45:01really a complete unknown for both me
0:45:04and the advertisers we have no idea what
0:45:07what a subscriber is worth you know or
0:45:09how much do you subscribers stick around
0:45:11all right you know if you get a sacar
0:45:13through an ad are they you know how many
0:45:15of them are still subscribed in a year
0:45:16we don't know and so it's it's the great
0:45:19unknown right now but day one suggests
0:45:23that it's pretty that there's basically
0:45:25a very wide buffer here for things to
0:45:30need to be scaled down if necessary if
0:45:32it ends up the economics don't work very
0:45:34well I can scale this way down and it's
0:45:36still worth doing so that that to me
0:45:40shows that this is probably a good idea
0:45:41by the way those are other controls I
0:45:44have like I can increase the number of
0:45:46slots that sell you know like in certain
0:45:49categories if they if they demand that
0:45:52the price be below a certain level to
0:45:54sell them very often I can just put more
0:45:56slots there you know like this is this
0:45:58is a known thing to do like Pete you
0:46:00know people have been dealing with AD
0:46:01based businesses of quite a long time
0:46:03now we know how to do it and as long as
0:46:05the ads are valuable at all you can
0:46:09usually make it work and and I think
0:46:11what we're seeing so far is it I think
0:46:12these are valuable the only question is
0:46:13just how valuable and that but that's
0:46:16really just minor tweaks over time
0:46:17that's not like having to rethink the
0:46:18whole system yeah that's super cool I'm
0:46:21really impressed really proud of this
0:46:23good work thanks a couple of very quick
0:46:26questions would you consider open
0:46:28sourcing this ad back end so that other
0:46:30people can copy all your hard work for
0:46:32free probably not but it's not out of
0:46:35like a like a guarding my hard work kind
0:46:38of attitude it's more just like a lot of
0:46:40it is pretty intertwined with overcast
0:46:41so it wouldn't make a lot of sense
0:46:44for this to be used for anybody else you
0:46:47know like this is really an ad network
0:46:48for podcasts on overcast that happens to
0:46:51also work for websites so like you know
0:46:54it's not it's pretty custom to overcast
0:46:57and most of the hard stuff is payment
0:47:01processing which I don't even wish the
0:47:03seal anybody can integrates directed to
0:47:05that so it's yeah I just had a lot of
0:47:08value to that fair enough and finally uh
0:47:11where's my swipe to delete I was doing
0:47:14this so I haven't done that yet I'm
0:47:16gonna tackle that probably next week
0:47:18it's got 30 days to do swipe to delete
0:47:19is that how this works yeah well I have
0:47:2229 days to do it then one day to make
0:47:24all these notifications fair enough I
0:47:26take back all the nice things he said
0:47:28unless you give me my swipe to delete
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0:49:10so today I think what's today um there
0:49:17was a rumor that broke that came out of
0:49:20the wall street journal which is usually
0:49:22pretty well sourced in fact usually
0:49:24well-sourced enough that we all kind of
0:49:26believe that Apple goes to the wall
0:49:27street journal and says hey would you
0:49:29talk about this please and the Wall
0:49:31Street Journal has said that the iphone
0:49:338 or whatever it may be called will have
0:49:37us bc and at first i thought oh this
0:49:41means that it will have lightning on the
0:49:43phone and USB see on the other end of
0:49:46the cable instead of via USB what is it
0:49:48be a i always get it confused hey
0:49:50whatever the day thank you whatever
0:49:51today is B is the Pentagon on printers
0:49:54all right ok so anyway so I assumed oh
0:49:58that just means that the cable will go
0:50:00from lightning to USB see that makes
0:50:02sense most pretty much all the laptops
0:50:03or USB see now fine but upon further
0:50:06inspection it sounds like no no the
0:50:08phone itself will actually be us bc and
0:50:12I have really conflicting opinions about
0:50:15this because my gut reaction is no no I
0:50:20do not want this I have a crudload of
0:50:22lightning cables lightning is really
0:50:25small and I don't want to mess with that
0:50:28what good does this do me and I think
0:50:30that that's in large part because off
0:50:33the top of my head I don't think I own a
0:50:36single device that supports USB see so I
0:50:40guess you could make the argument i'm
0:50:42living in the past and if you make the
0:50:44argument on living in the past and I
0:50:45guess really this is the future and
0:50:47maybe i should be using us bc and i
0:50:51should embrace my future us bc overlords
0:50:53so John Mark when I were talking a lot
0:50:56earlier what do you think about all this
0:50:58this is a weird rumor because like you
0:51:04said is in the wall street journal which
0:51:06is usually like the the end the end
0:51:08stage of life for rumors if they
0:51:09graduate all the way up to
0:51:11Anjali and end up in the wall street
0:51:13journal but as so many people have
0:51:15pointed out it is so poorly written the
0:51:18bikini men tell it's like it was written
0:51:19by someone who doesn't understand any of
0:51:22the things involved they don't
0:51:23understand how phones work they don't
0:51:24understand what these different
0:51:26standards for connectors are they don't
0:51:27understand what a port is because they
0:51:29wrote it in such a way they were all
0:51:30reading it going what what are you even
0:51:32trying to say just like Casey said are
0:51:35you just saying that the other end of
0:51:37the connector will be C are you saying
0:51:39the phone will have USBC port are you
0:51:41saying i pads will have USB seaports in
0:51:43addition to the lighting but like what
0:51:44do you what are you even saying this is
0:51:45the worst leak ever like you have to
0:51:47leak in a coherent way so we can at
0:51:50least understand the thing that you're
0:51:51telling us is supposed to be coming but
0:51:53so I've kind of discounted or not
0:51:56discounted but I've set aside how this
0:51:59rumor is being communicated I've chosen
0:52:00to believe that what these things are
0:52:02trying to tell us is exactly what Casey
0:52:04said and that if you pick up an iphone
0:52:06in the future and look at the bottom of
0:52:08it instead of a lightning port you'll
0:52:10see a USBC port like every other you
0:52:12know android phone and all the other
0:52:13things that are out there right that's
0:52:15what I'm choosing to to think this is
0:52:17trying to tell me and then I'm thinking
0:52:19about that if it's trying to tell me
0:52:20something different like oh that you
0:52:22know the other end of the lightning
0:52:24cable is going to be us bc that is a
0:52:26super boring rumor and i guess we could
0:52:28kind of get upset about that because as
0:52:29has been pointed out in many places
0:52:30before that's cool for apples ecosystem
0:52:33and it kind of makes sense and it kind
0:52:35of gets back to the whole iphone 7 thing
0:52:36we're like oh you buy an iphone 7 a new
0:52:38macbook pro you can't even plug them in
0:52:39because there's no place to put the USB
0:52:40a connector that's true and all but USB
0:52:43a is everywhere as a charging port it's
0:52:45on my luggage for crying out loud like
0:52:48it is everywhere so there's an argument
0:52:52to be had there that Apple doing that
0:52:54would be maybe an apple thing to do to
0:52:56be like oh you should just you know you
0:52:57should be in an Apple ecosystem are our
0:52:59power bricks have us bc connectors
0:53:01that's the future i'll blog anyway i'm
0:53:04ignoring that I'm just pretending
0:53:05they're telling me that there's going to
0:53:06be USBC port on iPhones and I I'm of two
0:53:12minds on this like I feel like yeah
0:53:14there are strong arguments on both sides
0:53:16both strong arguments for why this would
0:53:19be good and bad and also surprisingly
0:53:21strong arguments for why Apple wouldn't
0:53:23wouldn't do this like usually it's the
0:53:25it
0:53:25the opposite it's like okay well there's
0:53:27arguments for and against on a tech wise
0:53:29but then when you bring apple into the
0:53:31picture you say what apple do this like
0:53:32this is the only one strong argument for
0:53:35like that text up aside we know Apple
0:53:38would definitely do a thing like this or
0:53:40would never do a thing like this and
0:53:41with Apple an estate it is I think you
0:53:46can look to apple and say very strongly
0:53:49they both would do something like this
0:53:50and wouldn't do something like this and
0:53:52for the tech you can say this is an
0:53:53awesome tech idea this is a bad tech
0:53:55idea so for on the tech side obviously
0:53:58why is this a bad idea because lighting
0:54:01is smaller and you know that every
0:54:04connector every millimeter on a
0:54:05connector is some number of months or
0:54:08years off its life as Apple makes things
0:54:10ever thinner and thinner you're going to
0:54:12hit the limit of us bc before you at the
0:54:14limit of lightning not much before it's
0:54:16like probably like fractions of a
0:54:17millimeter or something but a little bit
0:54:19before lightning is smaller than USB say
0:54:21so there's that on the other side of the
0:54:24tech thing and this is a little bit of
0:54:25an unknown here lightning we don't know
0:54:28how unreliable lightning is like we have
0:54:31anecdotal evidence of weird connector
0:54:33scorching and stuff Apple knows for sure
0:54:35what their warranty repair thing is you
0:54:37know and also the Apple cables
0:54:39themselves which really has nothing to
0:54:40do with connector and everything to do
0:54:41with apples uncomfortable relationship
0:54:44with strain really fun cables where they
0:54:47apparently make things that don't hold
0:54:49up that well when the under you know
0:54:51under rough usage but there is a tech
0:54:55argument to be made for you know for the
0:54:58fact that lightning is smaller but also
0:55:01the fact that USB USB c and someone will
0:55:04correct me if i'm wrong it inverts the
0:55:06relationship of springing pieces of
0:55:08metal and stationary pieces of metal
0:55:10where the connector is stationary and
0:55:12solid and has these contacts on it which
0:55:14is great and makes that connector of
0:55:15sturdy but the inside of the device has
0:55:17the little springy metal fingers that
0:55:19touch the contact points so if the
0:55:21little springing metal fingers get
0:55:23fatigued or bent up or fail to make good
0:55:26contact that's inside your phone you got
0:55:29a problem whereas us b/c connector is i
0:55:32believe the springy bits are in the
0:55:34cable and inside the connector is the
0:55:36stiff stationary thing i'm using the
0:55:38hectic
0:55:38for all this I'm sure and so if the
0:55:41little springy bits that make contact
0:55:43with the stationary thing fatigue
0:55:45throughout the cable and get a new cable
0:55:47so that that is a tech argument on the
0:55:50side of us bc and then again I guess on
0:55:54the connectors themselves you've got the
0:55:56you know the business side of like Oh
0:55:58Apple gets money for lightning
0:55:59connectors people can make peripherals
0:56:00without it that's a good and a bad thing
0:56:01because good Apple makes money and
0:56:03control it it's bad that Apple has to
0:56:04approve every peripheral yeah so that's
0:56:09like you could their arguments about
0:56:12side for the tech thing and then with
0:56:13move over to Apple is this a thing Apple
0:56:15would do or is this an apple thing Apple
0:56:17wouldn't do and I think probably as soon
0:56:20as like a couple years in the past we
0:56:22all would have said regardless of all
0:56:25that tech stuff we just talked about
0:56:26Apple will never do this because Apple
0:56:29loves things super thin and Apple of
0:56:30things proprietary and Apple is not so
0:56:33much in love with conforming to industry
0:56:35standards just for the hell of it right
0:56:37that would that would be the only side
0:56:39of this argument it all be like yep
0:56:40totally like that's the Apple but
0:56:41today's Apple today's Apple is doing
0:56:45things the old apple didn't do both good
0:56:48and bad and has sowed enough doubt in my
0:56:50mind that I I'm now envisioning these
0:56:53boardroom conversations where somebody
0:56:56high-ups it says tell me again what the
0:56:59advantages are of the our proprietary
0:57:03lightning connector versus us bc and
0:57:05maybe this comes up because of large
0:57:08numbers of warranty repairs or you know
0:57:10who knows what the inciting incident is
0:57:12but someone says remind me again what
0:57:15we've been doing this lightning thing
0:57:16for five years like what advantage do we
0:57:18continue to have over over us bc
0:57:21especially now that we spread us bc to
0:57:24all of our you know all of our macs and
0:57:27our power brick connectors and you know
0:57:29all that stuff and presumably if they
0:57:32ever released new macs they will expand
0:57:34it even more of them why are we still
0:57:36using lightning in not saying that's not
0:57:38a reason but just you know just go over
0:57:40it again for me like tell me again what
0:57:42the advantages are great if it's el
0:57:43mocambo like here's our revenue from our
0:57:44made for iphone program
0:57:46and here's what we've been able to do
0:57:48with the connector but changing the pins
0:57:49through software and we're not beholden
0:57:51to the USB consortium in here this love
0:57:53habla and maybe there's an argument
0:57:58within the company so that's those are
0:58:00compelling arguments and now here's what
0:58:01we would get with us bc everywhere would
0:58:02be the same one connector for power data
0:58:06peripherals video out at adapters for
0:58:11networking like across max and all ass
0:58:14devices including the future much bigger
0:58:16iPads that were surely making with
0:58:18multiple USB connectors on them right an
0:58:20apple make a mouse yeah other person to
0:58:23make that once you once you standardize
0:58:26on just literally one omnidirectional
0:58:28connector that's really small across all
0:58:31your products that's that's an advantage
0:58:34and you you get to take advantage of the
0:58:37ecosystem of existing USBC peripherals
0:58:39which presumably will only grow as other
0:58:42things adopt it so an apple five years
0:58:45ago I can't imagine this discussion even
0:58:46taking place in serious ways apple today
0:58:49I can imagine this discussion being had
0:58:51prompted by whatever and I can imagine
0:58:53the USBC contingent inside Apple winning
0:58:55the argument and saying we're going to
0:58:58go with the industry standard even
0:58:59though it is worse than a few ways tech
0:59:01wise because it's also better in a few
0:59:03ways tech wise and there's an ecosystem
0:59:05advantage not just for apple and non
0:59:07apple companies but for Apple's own
0:59:10products internally to standardize them
0:59:12one because it's never been this never
0:59:13been a chance to do that before at no
0:59:15time in the past has there been any
0:59:17viable choice for a standard connector
0:59:19for like iPods and all macs except for I
0:59:22guess when it was firewire but that was
0:59:23part I was hardly viable and firewire
0:59:25was definitely not the standard across
0:59:26all macs that Max's the demon have it on
0:59:28it so here we are and I find myself
0:59:32incredibly believing a rumor that if you
0:59:35drive phone would have a USBC connector
0:59:37on it because you know it's not it's not
0:59:39a slam dunk and I'm not even saying it's
0:59:41higher than 5050 but i would i would say
0:59:42it is fifty-fifty in my mind that tech
0:59:45wise coin flip would Apple do it coin
0:59:49flip that's that's where I come down on
0:59:51us do you want them to I kind of do
0:59:54because if they're going to standardize
0:59:58on us bc everywhere
0:59:58on us bc everywhere
1:00:00the I'm sold on the uniformity win and
1:00:02I'm also kind of sort of sold on the
1:00:06durability win with the little bendy
1:00:08finger things and I have no I have no
1:00:10data on the right liability thing and of
1:00:12course well my connector is still work
1:00:14and I don't have these problems that
1:00:15people have to do of price you know yeah
1:00:18well though my wife said she had one of
1:00:19hers that had the little scorch mark I
1:00:21looked at it it wasn't like wasn't like
1:00:22part was was but that you just just
1:00:25mechanically speaking like I love the
1:00:27Lightning activated was solid and didn't
1:00:29have any little fragile Pinzon and
1:00:30everything but the fact that they're
1:00:32those little things those little fragile
1:00:33fingers are inside the phones I can see
1:00:35that being prompted a right I don't have
1:00:37data on this but I'm willing to believe
1:00:40and so if they did it I won't be angry
1:00:42I'll be kind of proud of them for being
1:00:45surprisingly pragmatic and courageous
1:00:48and for ya kind of kind of not so much
1:00:52courageous in terms of like like we're
1:00:53willing to take the heat because I think
1:00:55they wouldn't actually that's the other
1:00:56aspect to this some people were going to
1:00:58me like you just changed the connector
1:01:01you're changing it again well first of
1:01:03all just as a relative term like the
1:01:0530-pin connector was around for almost
1:01:07ten years and so you know that I think
1:01:10that's a good run this is slightly more
1:01:13than half of that it's if they ended up
1:01:15swapping this out and slowly
1:01:16transitioning it would be like five six
1:01:17years by the time they were done
1:01:18transitioning everything right all the
1:01:20products they sold that's a little bit
1:01:22that's you know it's shorter than a
1:01:2430-pin but unlike the 30 pin to
1:01:28lightning they wouldn't be changing one
1:01:30proprietary connector for another they
1:01:32would actually be moving to where
1:01:33everybody else already is so I can't I
1:01:36think actually people wouldn't be all
1:01:37that mad about yes you'll be mad all I
1:01:38have leave lightning cables what the
1:01:40hell do I do with them right but there
1:01:42is a wit there is a PR and real win
1:01:44there to say but we move to the standard
1:01:47we move to the industry standard so now
1:01:49you know if you're in a mixed household
1:01:51Android and iOS device you don't have to
1:01:52have two separate charging cables and
1:01:54the thing that you use to charge your
1:01:56Mac can also charge your phone and just
1:01:58there's a you know there's a story to be
1:02:01had there to sell this so that it is
1:02:03less impact so that it's basically even
1:02:05though it hasn't been around for 10
1:02:07years we're not moving to another
1:02:08proprietary one we're not screwing your
1:02:10movie the interest and so people will be
1:02:12less angry for a shorter
1:02:13period of time I think Marco yeah I I
1:02:17pretty much agree with John if you would
1:02:20have asked me a year ago I would have
1:02:21said all that why would they kill
1:02:23anything that's dumb in this moment copy
1:02:24your grab might have said it after that
1:02:25who knows but the way I feel about it
1:02:28now like it's what you know that now
1:02:29that I've had my my USB see macbook pro
1:02:32for a few months and I've I have a few
1:02:35USBC cables and now I had the stupid
1:02:37thing where I have like half of my
1:02:38cables are that car and half for another
1:02:40cry and its really annoying and you know
1:02:43on the phone it's a little bit different
1:02:45than like a laptop because it's the
1:02:46other end of the cable but it is kind of
1:02:49annoying when I'm packing for a trip and
1:02:51I'm packing my charging cables that most
1:02:54of what i use charges via lightning but
1:02:58not all of what i use i still have to
1:02:59have a u.s. you know some mini USB
1:03:01cables and now i have a USBC cable for
1:03:04this new laptop and probably anything i
1:03:06get in the future will be USBC cables
1:03:08there is a lot you know like the EU has
1:03:10mandated certain charge cable standards
1:03:13for a while and the reason why is
1:03:14because this actually generates tons of
1:03:17waste like all the different like waste
1:03:20cables that people have to you know buy
1:03:22separately and then we're at separately
1:03:24if their own way and have all these
1:03:26different connectors and everything it
1:03:28actually does hurt progress on a number
1:03:30of big ways to have all these
1:03:31proprietary things I think all you have
1:03:34to do to decide whether this is a good
1:03:36idea or not kind of in like in theory is
1:03:39to think like if they were designing the
1:03:42iphone 5 the first cable if the first
1:03:45phone not to use the dock connector if
1:03:46they were designing that today would
1:03:49they still make lightning today in a
1:03:52world where USBC exists or would they
1:03:54just use us bc and it's kind of you know
1:03:56if you do the metal exercise like what
1:03:58would be like the right thing to do if
1:04:00they were if they had a clean start
1:04:02today if there was no legacy to worry
1:04:03about no established devices out there
1:04:05on the world what would be like the
1:04:08right choice and i think it's very clear
1:04:10USPSA for the right choice you know
1:04:12assuming it is probably more resilient
1:04:14because of you know having the pins on
1:04:16the cable and so instead of the plug
1:04:17things like that but also just because
1:04:20it is clearly a really good very soon to
1:04:25be very widespread industry standard
1:04:27and there's a lot of benefits to that
1:04:29like Apple does love a good proprietary
1:04:32port but when they can make one they do
1:04:34love that they'll take it took advantage
1:04:36when they can but not always sometimes
1:04:39they just use standard things like us be
1:04:41like on the max like you know they for a
1:04:43long time they used a standard headphone
1:04:45jack because that it wasn't worth making
1:04:48their own custom headphone jack like the
1:04:51world had a standard for this thing and
1:04:52they used it and most of the time they
1:04:55do that most of the time that's the
1:04:57choice they make and right now I think
1:04:59it's very very clear that you like when
1:05:02they made the dock connector that was a
1:05:03special purpose thing they made for
1:05:04ipods they and they later adapted it
1:05:06when they made lightning there was
1:05:08nothing better for them to move to it
1:05:09the industry the any of the USB
1:05:11consortium and their people were
1:05:12designing god knows what with all those
1:05:14crazy like like the USB 3 b connector
1:05:17mini micro USB the the seven connectors
1:05:20i have to my digital cameras in the
1:05:22house yeah it looks almost the same yeah
1:05:24and that like pretty much everything the
1:05:26USB people have ever designed from a
1:05:28cable perspective or from a country
1:05:29perspective rather has been horrendous
1:05:31before us pc it's no coincidence that
1:05:34Apple allegedly had a very big role in
1:05:36USBC possibly even designed the whole
1:05:37thing themselves and just like handing
1:05:39it to the USB people saying here if
1:05:40that's another reason by the way that
1:05:41this argument could be one inside Apple
1:05:43because whatever sort of not invented
1:05:45here Apple pride things may be
1:05:47preventing it like with lightning we
1:05:49made that be like we kind of made us bc
1:05:51too so yeah we're all good and we're all
1:05:53good in the pride area even if the world
1:05:55doesn't know it we here at Apple know
1:05:56that we kind of made this too so that
1:05:59there's another that that's why I can
1:06:01imagine this argument big one inside
1:06:02Apple exactly and so today no question
1:06:07the right move if you were starting
1:06:08fresh would be us bc and so the only
1:06:11question is is it worth it for Apple to
1:06:15endure the transition costs to get to
1:06:17that point and I think you know Apple
1:06:22you know I made a joke about courage
1:06:23earlier referring to there they're
1:06:24wonderful just justification for moving
1:06:26the headphone jack but I think ditching
1:06:29lightning this year and going to us bc
1:06:31in this new fancy phone that would be
1:06:34real courage because they are going to
1:06:36hear about it from the users if they do
1:06:37is they are definitely going to hear
1:06:39from people i mean people are
1:06:41mad today about lightning I think
1:06:43they're still mad almost five years
1:06:46later that they can't use their dock
1:06:48connector that they bought ten years ago
1:06:50to charge their iphone I do hope though
1:06:52like maybe I bought his numbers in this
1:06:53because Android phones are super risky I
1:06:55think I saw like what their market share
1:06:57is among smartphones I think it's like
1:06:58eighty percent or something it's some
1:06:59really really high number I'm hoping
1:07:02that every house that has some high
1:07:05percentage of the houses that have angry
1:07:06people who are angry about like dropping
1:07:08lightning the they'll be USBC charging
1:07:11cables hanging around within a couple
1:07:12years to charge the android phones mass
1:07:14exactly and so if you think about like
1:07:16what does an all USBC world look like
1:07:19well we're already gonna be halfway
1:07:21there because all android phones are
1:07:23going to have it if they don't already
1:07:24they're gonna have it you know probably
1:07:25the next year right and so like you're
1:07:28gonna start seeing now in you know in
1:07:30places like like you know like hotel
1:07:33nightstands and like charging cables in
1:07:36like airports and and like terminals and
1:07:38stuff like that like you're gonna start
1:07:40seeing you know where we're used to see
1:07:41maybe you'd have a lightning port or
1:07:44lightning cable and maybe you have one
1:07:45of those dual like lightning and micro
1:07:46USB things you're gonna start seeing us
1:07:49bc all over all those things now for all
1:07:51the android phones and wouldn't it be
1:07:53great if they could just do us bc and
1:07:56have that cover although that would just
1:07:58be the new standard for charging your
1:08:01phone but that would be amazing i think
1:08:04apple had big plans for lightning for it
1:08:06being this like amazing universal report
1:08:09that could do all these different data
1:08:10things and everything and i think part
1:08:11of the justification for removing the
1:08:14headphone jack last year was you know it
1:08:16turns out live in a wireless world like
1:08:18most what we do is wireless it's still
1:08:20like i'll go like i'll go look at like
1:08:22you know audio stuff i try to buy like a
1:08:24decent microphone or sound interface for
1:08:26iOS devices and a lot of them didn't
1:08:29even make the jump from 30-pin to
1:08:30lightning I think lightning largely
1:08:32hasn't panned out in like being the
1:08:35universal accessory port Apple wanted it
1:08:37to be and for a number of reasons one is
1:08:40you know wireless things are so good
1:08:42another is that Android is more of a
1:08:44presence than I think Apple you know
1:08:45thought it would be or wanted it to be
1:08:47in that market you know it's similar to
1:08:49like you know one of the reasons
1:08:50everyone said why they wouldn't maybe do
1:08:53this is what they just had to never make
1:08:54light
1:08:55headphones this past year and well no
1:08:57lighting headphones have actually been
1:08:59around for a couple years but there's
1:09:01been like three pairs of them like
1:09:03there's been almost none and almost
1:09:05nobody uses them the only ones that have
1:09:07any reasonable use are the ones that
1:09:08Apple includes in the box for free with
1:09:10the iphone 7 but if they changed us bc
1:09:13they would probably just include a USBC
1:09:15version and just like it was basically
1:09:18no big deal for all the people who got
1:09:20the ones in the box for free with the
1:09:21iphone 7 it would be similarly no big
1:09:23deal for all the people who would get
1:09:25the new USBC ones in the box with the
1:09:26iphone 8 or whatever it's called so like
1:09:28that you can rule that argument right
1:09:30out that doesn't matter that that
1:09:31doesn't matter enough right if you also
1:09:34look at the ipad in particular the ipad
1:09:38really needs needs help you know it it
1:09:40needs to become more of a work device to
1:09:44boost its sales because it seems like
1:09:46you know they nailed the like passive
1:09:48consumption market pretty well if you
1:09:50want a passive consumption by rich
1:09:52people market yeah that yeah yeah the
1:09:55high end of the passive consumption
1:09:56market they they they have that covered
1:09:58now where I think they need to make a
1:10:01lot more headway is in the productivity
1:10:03market and they are starting to see you
1:10:06know things like things like the surface
1:10:08hurting them but not in like a massive
1:10:10way yet but in a way that they should
1:10:12really be noticing and that they
1:10:14probably are and for the ipad to grow
1:10:17they they are making it more PC like
1:10:20they added the smart keyboards they
1:10:21added the smart connector they added the
1:10:23pencil that you know they're going to
1:10:24hopefully keep pushing in this direction
1:10:26you know who knows what the software has
1:10:28coming next month or this month or
1:10:30whatever it is we'll see i guess but i
1:10:32think there is large potential if you
1:10:35would put a USBC port on an iPad because
1:10:38right now I'm in earlier but like sound
1:10:41devices and things that you like very
1:10:43few them are available for lightning
1:10:44everything is available for computers
1:10:47like every kind of peripheral you can
1:10:49think of is available with a USB
1:10:51interface on the end of it and it made
1:10:54me not USBC port necessary but like it
1:10:55could plug into USB seaport through a
1:10:57very easy cheap cable or a very easy
1:10:59adapter that you probably would already
1:11:01have three up in the bag if Apple wants
1:11:04the iPad to become more of a computer
1:11:07replacement
1:11:08adding a USBC port or two or three is
1:11:11not ridiculous you know it's a kind of
1:11:13early I remember when I suggested that
1:11:15it was on this show I suggested maybe a
1:11:18couple years ago adding a bunch of USB
1:11:20ports the ipad knife pretty sure both
1:11:22you laughed at me very heartily because
1:11:25every Apple commentator would have
1:11:27laughed the suggestion a year ago or
1:11:29more we all did every since the ipad
1:11:31wanna live and laugh at it i said like
1:11:33you have so much room on the side of the
1:11:35ipad and they wanted to be a bit more
1:11:37capable it's the place to put i was
1:11:39thinking of us be a ports that's how
1:11:40long ago it was like I was envisioning
1:11:41USBA ports on the side of like the iPad
1:11:431 because there was actually room for
1:11:44them back then but you know the Apple no
1:11:48no I like I want more than one port on
1:11:50the 12 inch iPad pro I don't want just
1:11:53one centered in the bottom replacing the
1:11:54Lightning port you have the opportunity
1:11:56to put more than one there's plenty of
1:11:58room and if you want it to be the pro
1:12:00iPad like surface hardware it doesn't
1:12:04have just one port for power and all USB
1:12:06like the macbook one does so you gotta
1:12:09compete yeah so I think the ipad there's
1:12:13lots of new uses or uses that would be
1:12:16better if the ipad had us bc ports at
1:12:19least one and if they're gonna do that
1:12:21why would they keep the Lightning port
1:12:23also it would it would make very little
1:12:25sense to keep the light of your
1:12:27headphones right now speaking of that I
1:12:30just realized the other day wouldn't
1:12:32reading these stories about lighting
1:12:33headphones and stuff I realized I
1:12:34actually don't know where my lightning
1:12:36headphones the came with my iphone 7 are
1:12:38right now in the house I don't think I
1:12:40lost them but I don't know where there
1:12:42are now because I've been using air pots
1:12:43and right if they if they get out ahead
1:12:46of this if they do the transition now
1:12:47with the anticipation to it has been two
1:12:50things one thing marketer said that like
1:12:52us bc it's not it's not pervasive now
1:12:54but presumably in a few years it will be
1:12:56pervasive thanks to android phones and
1:12:57everything right so they'll be out ahead
1:12:59of that so they will be saving their
1:13:01customers from the experience of being
1:13:03like oh I'm on vacation and oh I can't
1:13:07use my iphone with this thingy or this
1:13:09charge cable because it's not USB so
1:13:10saving them from that and then to the
1:13:12thing the Apple kind of knows in
1:13:13controls is what is the time horizon for
1:13:15wireless charging right is that just
1:13:18around the corner is it one or two years
1:13:19I feel like Apple if they switch now
1:13:21will be saying
1:13:22we believe that by the time we get our
1:13:23device is something that we can't USB
1:13:25can't use USBC anymore we'll have the
1:13:27wireless charging thing covered so again
1:13:29they're in a position to know and those
1:13:30all seem like reasonable things that
1:13:32happen well the other thing is like I
1:13:33mean this this doesn't sound a lot more
1:13:35likely than Apple adding USB 2 and iPad
1:13:38but what if the phone is getting thicker
1:13:40because they're getting rid of the
1:13:42bezels and they need somewhere to put
1:13:43things at the camera the reason why
1:13:45those bezels are there is you know
1:13:47partly out of like you know looks and
1:13:49grip and everything but mostly because
1:13:51that's where have to put a bunch of
1:13:52components that are too deep to fit
1:13:54behind the screen and if they're moving
1:13:56to these larger screen like more edge to
1:13:58edge phone designs that can be smaller
1:14:00in the hand I have a smaller you know
1:14:02width and height in the hand they might
1:14:05have to get thicker in order to just
1:14:07have space for things like a decent
1:14:08camera get ready for some bigger camera
1:14:11bumps well probably but that's that
1:14:14seems like a more Apple II as as judged
1:14:16by the iphone 7 they'll just make a
1:14:17bigger bulge rather than make pulsing
1:14:19water thicker but we'll see yeah maybe
1:14:22anyway so my point is basically that
1:14:24like in a perfect world if they started
1:14:26from scratch they had no legacy they'd
1:14:27probably go USB see that would probably
1:14:29the best option if you look at the ipad
1:14:31the ipad could really use us bc and it
1:14:34wouldn't make a lot of sense it wouldn't
1:14:35be very apple style to still keep
1:14:37lightning on there they could just
1:14:38replace that we are already not using
1:14:41lightning for much else besides charging
1:14:45like it's not being used for a whole lot
1:14:47more by most people than just charging
1:14:49your phone and they're already pushing
1:14:53things like bluetooth for a lot of
1:14:55peripherals for audio output and things
1:14:56like that so and and of course then also
1:14:59you look at the mac and the end the mac
1:15:00you know if you have us bc on both
1:15:03things everything shares the same
1:15:05peripherals everything shares the same
1:15:07cables you can charge them everywhere we
1:15:09even with the android device cables you
1:15:11can use all the devices for android
1:15:15right now that are made by companies
1:15:16like Sony that like if sony has to pick
1:15:19between making something for lightning
1:15:21or make something for us bc for android
1:15:23phones they pick android because they
1:15:25are there more of an android focus
1:15:26company there's lots of companies like
1:15:28that we're like you kind of have to like
1:15:29when you pick teams like you see like
1:15:31some of the headphones like there are
1:15:32some USBC headphones now for android
1:15:34phones
1:15:35and there are some Lightning headphones
1:15:37for iPhones and usually the same
1:15:39headphone isn't available in both like
1:15:41you kind of have to pick and it sucks
1:15:42having this like this format war really
1:15:44going on between these companies in
1:15:46these different ecosystems where you
1:15:47can't use the same headphones between
1:15:49two different devices wouldn't it be
1:15:51great if you could just have one
1:15:53standard and USBC is good enough and
1:15:56it's going to be good enough quite some
1:15:58time we're not going to have to change
1:16:00cables again in like three years from
1:16:01now it's going to be a while and it
1:16:04would be amazing to have that now there
1:16:06is one other part of this that is worth
1:16:07pointing out and that is the other end
1:16:09of the cable the end that plugs into the
1:16:11power brick or the computer and if the
1:16:14case may be I think personally I think
1:16:17it's more likely that this rumor has
1:16:20been misunderstood and that the more
1:16:22likely outcome here is that Apple's not
1:16:24changing the phone to us bc but they're
1:16:26just going to ship it in the box with a
1:16:28USBC cable that plugs into USB see brick
1:16:31but that's still going to have lightning
1:16:32on the phone and that is way more likely
1:16:34that's totally that's totally what I
1:16:37thought and I think that's so much more
1:16:39boring of a rumor so that's why I'm like
1:16:41I don't want to talk about that because
1:16:42it's like all right fine like all you
1:16:45can do for that one is get angry about
1:16:47the fact that now you have no place to
1:16:48chip plug in your charging cable but
1:16:49that would make such perfect sense along
1:16:51with everything we have but but why is
1:16:52that a story that's not a Wall Street
1:16:53Journal caliber story like because who
1:16:56you know who cares whatever I really
1:16:59hope that's not it and the thing is in
1:17:01many ways having us bc and the charger
1:17:04end is actually worse than having us be
1:17:06a and the charger end because I as I
1:17:08rented on Twitter earlier like basically
1:17:09like the entire world right now has tons
1:17:11of infrastructure in place that has USB
1:17:15a ports everywhere for people to chart
1:17:18people to plug their phones into to
1:17:20charge them with and this isn't just
1:17:23like the phone owner having to buy a new
1:17:26power brick or you know having to use a
1:17:27different one that comes in the box and
1:17:29throw other old ones this is like again
1:17:31it's like airplanes cars hotels like all
1:17:35is different yeah luggage all these
1:17:37different places where you have us be a
1:17:39ports those travel things that we all
1:17:41have with like 12 USB a ports on them
1:17:43you take the hotel so you can charge all
1:17:44families devices with you now there's
1:17:46nothing to say that all those vices
1:17:47won't also convert to us bc at some
1:17:49point it's just
1:17:49the question of if you're changing the
1:17:51non phone end of the cable which is what
1:17:53we're talking about now even though it's
1:17:54boring if you're changing the non phone
1:17:56end of the cable is now the right time
1:17:58to change away from a because what
1:18:00you're not gaining much except for the
1:18:02Ogam you're gaining is uniform sanity
1:18:04with an apples line where you no longer
1:18:05have the embarrassing situation where
1:18:07you buy a macbook pro in an iphone and
1:18:08you can't charge them at each other but
1:18:09that's it that's all you get out of it
1:18:11yeah and so like you know it would be
1:18:14fine to have to have us bc to see as the
1:18:18main thing or see the lightning as the
1:18:19main thing that would be fine but i
1:18:21think see the lightning as the cable
1:18:23that comes the phone and as a thing the
1:18:25most people have is actually less
1:18:26convenient now and for the foreseeable
1:18:28future then ada lightning would be
1:18:30because there are so many a ports
1:18:34everywhere in the world that people
1:18:36already have installed or bought or
1:18:38everything else and it goes way beyond
1:18:40just buying a new power brick and it
1:18:41goes into things like buying a new car
1:18:43or reef or retrofitting airplanes and
1:18:45like those are things that just don't
1:18:46happen very often so we're going to have
1:18:48us be a ports as like the new power
1:18:51outlet for phones for a long time to
1:18:54come and you can't adapt a USB a port to
1:18:59have a USBC cable plugged into it you
1:19:02can go the other direction with all
1:19:03these little wonderful nine dollar
1:19:04adapters and apple sells but you can't
1:19:06go the other way you can't plug a USB
1:19:08see device into USB a port it violates
1:19:12the USB spec because as lots of weird
1:19:13things that can go wrong if you do it
1:19:15wrong and lots of like weird
1:19:16combinations they didn't want to allow
1:19:18with like what do you do with the
1:19:19massive amount of power on these pins
1:19:20and things like that and so that
1:19:22direction can't be like legally adapted
1:19:24by the USB spec and for very good
1:19:28reasons that are probably likely to
1:19:29change so if you're gonna have a cable
1:19:32that you're going to want to plug into
1:19:33whatever you find as you travel or go
1:19:35throughout the world or in turn out of
1:19:37your car wherever else you're probably
1:19:39going to want a whatever the phone has
1:19:42lightning your USB c 2 USB a and then
1:19:44maybe have a dongle with your laptop's
1:19:46you can plug it in there sometimes you
1:19:48want to save yourself some email yeah go
1:19:50you have to tell them that you know that
1:19:51those connectors that go from a to c you
1:19:52have to tell you have to say that yes i
1:19:54know there are connected I know you can
1:19:55go on lots of places and buy one from
1:19:57some kind of no-name brand but there's a
1:19:59reason why there aren't that many of
1:20:01them and why you don't see people like
1:20:02Apple selling
1:20:03because they're bad bad things can
1:20:06happen please don't use them so speaking
1:20:09of saving email I forgot to mention that
1:20:11i do have a modern Apple TV in the house
1:20:14and that is us pc would either of you
1:20:16care to wager guess how many times I've
1:20:18plug to USC a USBC cable into that Apple
1:20:21TV isn't that just a diagnostic port I
1:20:23don't think it's like supposed to be a
1:20:24user no it's it's it's for diagnostic
1:20:26Janet's for developers like when i
1:20:27install provenance the emulator oh yeah
1:20:29it's you know similar to how you plug in
1:20:31a phone to run devices or to run apps
1:20:33that you right from xcode onto the phone
1:20:35through USB same thing with the Apple TV
1:20:37you plug it into the USB port and it
1:20:39becomes an output device for xcode you
1:20:40can run stuff on speaking of us bc and
1:20:43then gender switch has us bc which is
1:20:44out soon and has someone tweeted earlier
1:20:47today that if you plug a nintendo switch
1:20:49into a macbook pro the switch charges
1:20:51the laptop not the other way around yeah
1:20:52that's pretty great in the world of
1:20:55ubiquitous connectors it is kind of a
1:20:56weird situation because like we have the
1:20:58it's kind of based on size that's like
1:20:59it you expect if you're using your
1:21:01laptop and you're like oh my phones low
1:21:02i'm going to plug it into my laptop
1:21:03that's the thing like we've all done
1:21:05right you fully expect that when you
1:21:07plug your phone into your laptop the
1:21:08laptop will charge your phone the phone
1:21:10wont charge your laptop and why do you
1:21:12think that well because the batteries in
1:21:13the lap and the laptop is bigger i guess
1:21:15but when you do it with the switch i
1:21:17guess they don't know how big they are
1:21:18like a little dog that thinks it's the
1:21:20big dog it's like i got your neck here's
1:21:22some juice take this i don't know who
1:21:24knows it could be just the mac think
1:21:25it's being charged and it actually isn't
1:21:27because i don't understand why the
1:21:28switch would output charge or anything
1:21:30but in in this world of ubiquitous USB
1:21:33see that our future world where
1:21:35everything has USB seaports it can be
1:21:37confusing as to what the actual
1:21:38relationship between devices with
1:21:41batteries and then will be when you plug
1:21:42them into each other and i'm sure
1:21:43they're part of the standard is like for
1:21:45that but they probably just didn't quite
1:21:47do it right or something they are like
1:21:49again why the hell this is switch
1:21:51charging anything i don't think there
1:21:52are any peripherals that plug into the
1:21:53switch and derive power from it so who
1:21:55knows yeah what do its various external
1:21:57control like the the pro controller what
1:21:59are those are those all just wireless
1:22:01with their own chargers or what i would
1:22:03guess so I mean though all existing game
1:22:05console controls i have used one of the
1:22:07terrible micro USB things maybe the the
1:22:10switch pro controller has a USB see i
1:22:13wouldn't know because i don't have a
1:22:14pre-order for it
1:22:16I'm working on that by the way so
1:22:18everybody knows i do have orders i do
1:22:20now have pre-orders for the switch and
1:22:24for the zelda game that i want thanks to
1:22:25some very helpful fans of the show so
1:22:29far still no pro controller you're going
1:22:31to tell me at some point how I'm
1:22:33supposed to get a pro controller when i
1:22:34get my switch also can i buy the games i
1:22:37heard that Pete went when I mention that
1:22:39I had these games in my amazon cart
1:22:41ready to pre-order i got a number of
1:22:43helping people saying why don't I just
1:22:44buy a giant SD card and download them is
1:22:45that a thing I can do yeah but like the
1:22:48only reason i want the zelda it's like
1:22:49the special edition that comes with a
1:22:50bunch of little tchotchkes and stuff you
1:22:52know and it comes with a soundtrack CD i
1:22:54would throw all that away or I'd mail to
1:22:56you exactly so so if you don't care
1:22:58about that I'm pretty sure every single
1:23:00game is use downloadable and the storage
1:23:02on the switch itself is not that big so
1:23:04everyone's telling you to buy an SD card
1:23:05but I think if you just get the switch
1:23:06and just want to play zelda you can just
1:23:08get it and then download zelda and play
1:23:10it and the digit of the story speaking
1:23:12of switch about the zelda carts have you
1:23:14seen pictures of how big the little the
1:23:16switch cartridges are no like they're
1:23:19really small like they're not as small
1:23:20as like the Micro Micro SD cards but
1:23:22they're smaller than you think they are
1:23:23and that poses a problem because like
1:23:27what if kids find these little games and
1:23:29stick them in their mouth swallow them
1:23:30or do something else bad with them right
1:23:31so Nintendo solution to this was to coat
1:23:35the cartridges they sell with a very
1:23:37very bad tasting substance so people are
1:23:39now licking antenna switch Carter that's
1:23:42the backstory i had seen people say oh
1:23:44yes they really do taste like garbage I
1:23:46didn't know what the back story was
1:23:48though yeah that's that's what I've
1:23:50heard it's a plausible theory because it
1:23:52is it is like kind of a you know a
1:23:53swallowing choking hazard they're small
1:23:55enough and they're going to be around
1:23:56kids like because you know it's not it's
1:23:58not like that there you're not worried
1:23:59about it kids swallowing the sim card
1:24:00from your phone because kids aren't
1:24:01playing with the sim card in your phone
1:24:03but kids will be around these loose
1:24:04cartridges for the switch or they you
1:24:06know bring a bunch of them in the back
1:24:07of the car with them and play them on a
1:24:08car trip and stuff and they're you know
1:24:10younger sibling gets ahold of them and
1:24:11so apparently they taste terrible wait
1:24:14so I sort of question all right so so I
1:24:17used to bite my nails and one of the
1:24:19ways i stopped was i got one of those
1:24:20like horrible tasting nail polish things
1:24:22same theory and yeah however the one of
1:24:25the shortcomings of that is that it
1:24:26would like rub off on like
1:24:29preparing or like anything anything that
1:24:31I touched would taste horrible and so if
1:24:35you like handle a switch cartridge and
1:24:37you can make a sandwich it like is it
1:24:39going to rub off at all are you gonna
1:24:40taste that so I have to say that this is
1:24:43the internet and I've just read some
1:24:45tweets so for all I know this is totally
1:24:47false and people just got some weird
1:24:50foul tasting stuff on their switch
1:24:51cartridges but i will say that now
1:24:53assuming the story is true i would think
1:24:57that the coding they put in these
1:24:58cartridges would have some of the same
1:25:00problems as the nail buying stuff one
1:25:02that it would eventually be able to wear
1:25:04off or be sucked off as very determined
1:25:06nail biters know well that if you really
1:25:08if you really want to go to town you can
1:25:10a build up a tolerance to and be
1:25:12eventually remove that substance stuff
1:25:15it I quit with one application but
1:25:18that's how bad it was you're you're not
1:25:20as a terminus on some little children
1:25:23yeah it I can tell you from personal
1:25:27experience with people my family who I
1:25:29will not name who are not me that it is
1:25:32possible to if you are stubborn enough
1:25:35to get rid of stuff and to like you said
1:25:38that like will it come off on your hands
1:25:40I think it has to necessarily come off
1:25:43your hands if your hands are wet because
1:25:44if it doesn't come off on your hands
1:25:46when they're wet it also won't come off
1:25:47on your tongue on you right and so I
1:25:49think those are real things but what I'm
1:25:51hoping is that cartridges don't get
1:25:53handled much under normal circumstances
1:25:55and the people's hands are not wet
1:25:56enough to pull off the stuff again
1:25:58assuming this entire story is true but
1:25:59all we know is that when any of us gets
1:26:02it or encounters a nintendo switch
1:26:03cartridge is incumbent upon us as part
1:26:06of the homework for the show to like it
1:26:07you just give me a really good reason to
1:26:10just download all my games and not ever
1:26:11buy one well you have to get one to like
1:26:14you have to tips gonna want to look at
1:26:15that i just have to look Maya SD cards
1:26:17and see if that has the same coding
1:26:17that's right you need to ABX test this
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1:27:21think what the thing that bothers me
1:27:24about the iphone USBC thing is if the
1:27:27USBC is on the device itself is on the
1:27:29iphone what technical thing does that
1:27:33solve like yes I understand that there's
1:27:35a consistency with the rest of like the
1:27:37laptop line but what does that actually
1:27:39do for an iphone that makes the iphone
1:27:42itself better don't we get the advantage
1:27:45of dedicated analog audio pins so that
1:27:48we don't need the deck and the things
1:27:49anymore and we could have cheap
1:27:51headphones to connect to us bc or limas
1:27:52remembering this both USBC add lighting
1:27:55have have ways to do that however we
1:27:58also did find that in the little apple
1:28:00dongle is a little tiny back because dax
1:28:02costs nothing and it's not a very good
1:28:04one but it doesn't matter for most
1:28:05people for what they're using it's fine
1:28:08sorry that's a potential advantage that
1:28:10you could get if Apple decides to take
1:28:11advantage of it and if they're it may I
1:28:14have no idea if there are any existing
1:28:16headphones that take analog audio
1:28:17signals and have instead of a you know a
1:28:20regular headphone jack come and they
1:28:21have a USB see one but in theory that's
1:28:23one there's also you know techno tech
1:28:26buys the thing with the bendy pins that
1:28:27we talked about like who knows how big a
1:28:29problem that is but it stands to reason
1:28:33that it is better to have the parts that
1:28:36eventually fatigue or bend or wear out
1:28:38on the cable you can throw away and not
1:28:41inside the device so that's another tech
1:28:42advantage yeah I guess I guess I just
1:28:45there's nothing that you guys have said
1:28:48or that I can think of that makes me
1:28:51think oh this is a technical problem
1:28:52that's being solved with us bc it is
1:28:54worth that that juice is worth
1:28:56squeeze of pissing off the entire world
1:28:59for another for another cable change or
1:29:03another port don't you think you guys
1:29:04not agree what you both said that you
1:29:05thought people will be angry but I
1:29:06totally think people will be less angry
1:29:08than 30 pin delighting even though
1:29:1030-pin was 30 10 years old I think
1:29:12they'll be less angry about this because
1:29:13it's a switch to the standard because
1:29:16yes you're going to be grumbly you're
1:29:18assuming though that people have us bc
1:29:19devices i am cheap and i don't buy
1:29:22expensive things terribly often but i
1:29:26always keep up-to-date on on iphones and
1:29:30ipads whatnot and and I don't have a you
1:29:33like I said the only USBC device i have
1:29:35is an apple TV that I've never plugged
1:29:36USBC into they'd be a little bit ahead
1:29:38of the curve like I agree people don't
1:29:40have but I think every story about this
1:29:42would be Apple concedes or like the most
1:29:45negative story you can have a apple
1:29:47finally concedes and does what everyone
1:29:48else does Apple finally gets in line
1:29:50ever finally does the industry standard
1:29:52thing I think that would be the negative
1:29:54Apple spin on these stories and you know
1:29:56again with the European regulations
1:29:57requiring whatever was mini USB and
1:29:59probably going to require us bc like i
1:30:01think that's the spin on the story and
1:30:03yes it's like oh I don't care what the
1:30:05hell'd standards I got a houseful of
1:30:06freaking lightning cables and I
1:30:07worthless to me right like people will
1:30:08be angry but I think the story will be
1:30:11Apple gets in line with everybody else
1:30:13and that will soften the blow again I
1:30:17think if you're going to do that though
1:30:18you wait another year or something like
1:30:20that because everyone is still sensitive
1:30:23to this because I still within the last
1:30:25month have heard people whining about
1:30:26lightning ports and and so if you're
1:30:30going to make this jump you make the
1:30:31jump where it's when it's it's it's
1:30:33preposterous that Apple isn't on us bc
1:30:36right now I really member though do you
1:30:39want the little ice yeah because again
1:30:42at the thing that I can't get past is
1:30:44it's not solving any technical problem
1:30:46that I'm aware of maybe on like an iPad
1:30:49maybe if you wanted to plug in say an
1:30:51external display which I guess you can
1:30:52do that with the hdmi cable on a phone
1:30:54or pad anyway I've had anyway so yeah
1:30:56I'm failing to see what technical
1:30:58problem that makes the iPhone itself
1:31:00better what technical problem are they
1:31:04solving by doing this because otherwise
1:31:05why bother well we also don't know how
1:31:07pervasive the Lightning connect
1:31:10your problems are like I don't know how
1:31:11many people do we know who have had this
1:31:12problem I I know two people Marco and
1:31:15Merlin right who have both had problems
1:31:17with the contacts you know the bendy
1:31:20little bits coming out of thing and then
1:31:21scorching the little connectors I
1:31:23believe what it marketed you get your
1:31:25phone replaced because of that yeah I
1:31:27did and then Merlin I don't know if you
1:31:30got anything replaced but he had like we
1:31:31were only the hardware virus because
1:31:32once one of the little bendy pieces of
1:31:35metal doesn't contact with the shiny
1:31:37gold bits on the Lightning connector and
1:31:39starts arcing it can cause a little
1:31:41Bernie spot there and that makes the
1:31:42connection even worse and more working
1:31:43and so on and so forth and now you have
1:31:45a lightning connector that has a little
1:31:47Bernie spot on it and if you put that
1:31:49lightning connector into another device
1:31:50now you have poor contact between the
1:31:52Bernie spot and the little bendy metal
1:31:54thing and it causes that to arc and so
1:31:56it's like it's like a hardware virus as
1:31:57you plug this this plug into a bunch of
1:32:00other devices eventually they all get
1:32:01this little burning spot on the same
1:32:03place and that's bad and is this just a
1:32:06problem that is really rare and esoteric
1:32:08and really much more much smaller than
1:32:10the grand scheme of things than Apple's
1:32:11bad strain relief I don't know but I do
1:32:14know two people and it did cause a
1:32:16warranty replacement for sure and at
1:32:18least one of them that i think would
1:32:21fall into the category of potentially a
1:32:23tech problem that the USBC is solving
1:32:26numbers are it's hard it's hard to know
1:32:29without numbers you know I guess I just
1:32:31but but here again that's like that's
1:32:33solving a problem for Apple that that
1:32:35your average consumer even I don't
1:32:37really care about what Marco didn't want
1:32:39to get his phones well maybe did because
1:32:40of this the microphone thing but like
1:32:42people don't want to have to bring
1:32:43anything again it's not right I'm does
1:32:45USBC saw the lint problem that's another
1:32:47sort of anecdotal thing we don't have
1:32:48numbers for but like how many people
1:32:50have you heard about like my thing would
1:32:51in charge and I had to get out the
1:32:53dentist gear and start pulling out the
1:32:55little lint balls or cat hair from
1:32:57inside the thing or I brought to an
1:32:58apple store and they had to do it for me
1:33:00my parents have had this problem where
1:33:02they had to have lint pulled out of
1:33:04their thing pulled out of their lighting
1:33:06connector by like an apple store person
1:33:08right does USBC suffer from that as much
1:33:11as lightning I have no idea but that is
1:33:13another potential tech problem not just
1:33:15for Apple for warranty or present people
1:33:17don't want their crap to break and have
1:33:18to bring it to the store either
1:33:19especially it's so hard to get an
1:33:21appointment and it's annoying to be in
1:33:22there
1:33:23I don't know I just I feel like if if i
1:33:26were to wager a guess I think it's what
1:33:28we ought our initial interpretation was
1:33:30which is it's going to the cable
1:33:33included in the box maybe lightning to
1:33:36USB see that falls down though because
1:33:38of what marco was describing about how
1:33:39the entirety of power charging in the
1:33:41world is all done via USB a I think
1:33:46Apple this is one of the old school
1:33:47things where I would say would Apple do
1:33:49this one hundred percent I totally
1:33:50believe Apple would would go lightning
1:33:52to USB see despite everything we just
1:33:53said and we all agree on the USBA is
1:33:56more common why would Apple do it
1:33:58because they'd be like this is our
1:33:59connector for our stuff and our power
1:34:01bricks and our computers and by the way
1:34:03we sell the other one for a reasonable
1:34:05price so buy more peripherals from us
1:34:06and you know buy more adapters and it's
1:34:08fine i 100% believe Apple to do that
1:34:11it's just hard to sell tell from this
1:34:13rumor and speaking of hardware virus I
1:34:15hope this rumor is a different kind of
1:34:17hardware virus and that even as if Apple
1:34:20is either doing the boring thing or not
1:34:22doing anything and they just come with
1:34:23plain old USB a to lightning connectors
1:34:25like every other thing the fact of the
1:34:27story is out there that I'm you know
1:34:29every tech site and the wall street
1:34:30journal in podcast and everybody are
1:34:32talking about it and it seems to me
1:34:35collectively slowly convincing ourselves
1:34:36to this would be a good idea it would be
1:34:38great if somewhere it out there like no
1:34:40Wall Street Journal that's not what you
1:34:42were supposed to be leaking at all it's
1:34:44just a bit too much the other end of the
1:34:45cake and then come the time when when
1:34:47the new iphone is released we're all
1:34:48disappointed that it doesn't have USB
1:34:50see Apple be like that wouldn't away
1:34:51from us so it's like a hardware mind
1:34:53virus Wow yeah I don't know what to make
1:34:56of it like it wouldn't entirely
1:34:58surprised me at the phone itself had a
1:35:00USBC port on it but I just I keep coming
1:35:02back to and I can't get past what is it
1:35:04really doing for the device like what
1:35:07what problem is that solving for the
1:35:09device I'm not saying there isn't one
1:35:11it's making a lot of things more
1:35:12convenient and in in the very very
1:35:14likely future that we're going to have
1:35:16because you know android is you know
1:35:19doing this so we're going to have all
1:35:20these USBC cables out there in the world
1:35:21it's going to be very very convenient if
1:35:24we also if we not only can just have one
1:35:26cable but then you can plug in your
1:35:27iphone to any of these things anywhere
1:35:29that's going to be incredibly it's also
1:35:31keeping it for just people who travel
1:35:33with an iphone and the laptop and
1:35:36you can have one charger that you kind
1:35:38of switch between them as needed or you
1:35:40can swap cables between them if what if
1:35:42you forget one of the cables or one of
1:35:43them goes bad or you only have one long
1:35:46table and one short cable and you need
1:35:48to flip where they are for a certain
1:35:49arrangement that you have when you're
1:35:50traveling or something like there's all
1:35:52sorts of like everyday practical
1:35:54advantages that this could bring in a
1:35:57world where everything else is us bc and
1:35:59i think it's very clear we are heading
1:36:00towards that world like the rubber
1:36:02everything else is USBC that's happening
1:36:04Apple is leading the charge with the max
1:36:07like so that's obviously happening it's
1:36:10here like if you've bought a new macbook
1:36:12pro in the last five months you already
1:36:16are in this world at least partially and
1:36:17as they update the imax hopefully in a
1:36:19few weeks and everything else like you
1:36:21know over the next couple years like if
1:36:23you buy a new mac it is almost certainly
1:36:25going to be all USB see so again like
1:36:28this world is here this is happening
1:36:31this is already a thing there's all
1:36:33sorts of great accessories for us bc now
1:36:36like think of all the all that like
1:36:38standard you know just how like iOS has
1:36:40had support for standard USB devices
1:36:42like like standard hid things standard
1:36:45sound devices things that without any
1:36:46drivers or anything for a long time now
1:36:48but in order to plug them in you had to
1:36:49get one of those like lightning to USB
1:36:50camera connection kit adapters and this
1:36:53would actually allow the phone to have
1:36:55like a standard port that is always
1:36:58there that can support a whole bunch of
1:37:00new devices that can make you feel more
1:37:02useful in certain like specialized
1:37:04scenarios so there's like there's the
1:37:05everyday practicality of all these
1:37:06different charge cables that are going
1:37:08to be everywhere there's carrying it
1:37:09with you in a bag full of a USBC laptop
1:37:12with all the USBC cables you're going to
1:37:13have for that not having to have two
1:37:14separate sets of cables with difference
1:37:15in two connectors and everything it's
1:37:17just tons of everyday practicality plus
1:37:19all this edge case power that you could
1:37:21have by having this device be a member
1:37:24of the USBC ecosystem a first class
1:37:26member have it be a USBC host device
1:37:28that can have other USBC things put into
1:37:30it and have that just work in addition
1:37:32to being charged and everything and
1:37:34eventually have Thunderbolt 3 or
1:37:35Thunderbolt 7 on your phone's right
1:37:37maybe I mean they probably they wouldn't
1:37:39probably even need that because USB 3 is
1:37:41already really fast for most things a
1:37:43phone would be transferring over an
1:37:44external bus you would do it for a video
1:37:46outline on
1:37:47the 27 inch iPad pro so you could have
1:37:49two of them next to each other actually
1:37:51it's pretty cool but yeah yeah and again
1:37:53and then I'll also think of the ipad
1:37:54we're like if they want to bring the
1:37:56ipad forward in a big way one of the
1:37:58ways to do that would be to give it a
1:37:59USB port of some of some kind and of
1:38:02course these days that would be a USBC
1:38:03port and if you have that why would you
1:38:05keep lightning there and if you're
1:38:06getting rid of lightning there might as
1:38:08well also get lightning on the phone and
1:38:10also be a lot more comfortable with the
1:38:12European Union in the process so there's
1:38:15lots of reasons to do it and I mean
1:38:18Casey so you know as and I think the one
1:38:20of us who's who's most cool on this idea
1:38:22would you at least agree that if they
1:38:25were starting clean today with no with
1:38:27no legacy baggage would USBC be the
1:38:29right choice Oh without question and you
1:38:33know sitting here thinking about it um I
1:38:35I feel like the only way this makes that
1:38:40that this feels better to me is if
1:38:43inductive charging really is a thing
1:38:45right because although i plug in phone's
1:38:48constantly because i'm a developer I
1:38:50like Aaron for example she the only time
1:38:54she ever plugs her phone into anything
1:38:55it's just the wall to charge it and yeah
1:39:00it would be kind of a pain in the butt
1:39:01if she had to bring her like charging
1:39:03pad everywhere she goes in order to
1:39:05charge your phone but that makes it
1:39:08sting a little bit less I feel like I
1:39:11don't know why maybe now that I'm saying
1:39:12that out loud it seems bananas to me
1:39:14because it's really no different because
1:39:16you know if it's USB see them then we
1:39:18would have to bring that specific USBC
1:39:20cable because it would be the only one
1:39:21in the house but if it's an inductive
1:39:23charging pad suddenly that's better
1:39:25because I don't know why but it just
1:39:26feels better to me even though I admit
1:39:29that that makes no sense so maybe maybe
1:39:32that's the fix is inductive charging is
1:39:34the thing since it's wireless and apple
1:39:36hates wires and you know USBC for like
1:39:39you know Apple TV style if you need it I
1:39:41don't know I I think that's a charging
1:39:44is probably a separate thing like it's
1:39:46the kind of thing where like if it ever
1:39:48makes sense to do in an iphone which so
1:39:51far it seems like the the uses that have
1:39:53been out there in the world so far have
1:39:55not been very compelling for lots of
1:39:57different reasons some of which seem
1:39:59insurmountable but
1:40:01we'll see if that ever changes but
1:40:03things like the horrible efficiency of
1:40:05it and the incredible close proximity
1:40:08need to have to the charging device but
1:40:11anyway or the pad whatever it is but I
1:40:13see this is separate things you know
1:40:15like you know it's it's very high and
1:40:17even like Apple I said this
1:40:19multiplication i think phil has it made
1:40:20a few comments to this degree you know
1:40:22you have a wire you can plug this into
1:40:24charge it's no big deal like wireless
1:40:26charging sounds great if you think about
1:40:28like oh I could just walk around
1:40:29everywhere my whole house my whole work
1:40:31my the whole world outside maybe and my
1:40:34phone just always charged from the air
1:40:36but that probably isn't what it would be
1:40:38it would probably be like you just have
1:40:40these wireless charging pads like on
1:40:43your desk and stuff like that isn't that
1:40:44much better than a cable oh that's all
1:40:46it's pretty pretty better than a cable i
1:40:48think i think if you just have think of
1:40:50the area in everybody's house where they
1:40:52dump all their devices to charge in the
1:40:53rat's nest of wires that they have there
1:40:55if there was just a nice pad and I could
1:40:57just pile things on top of it and that's
1:40:58assuming they just go with like
1:41:00inductive charging with this type of
1:41:01thing if they go with the what was that
1:41:03company called the wasn't Steve Pearlman
1:41:05the onlive guy I forget anyway the the
1:41:08beamforming when I kind of tech that
1:41:10could be used to deliver power P
1:41:12something that's the thing that you're
1:41:14talking to said I'm wandering around my
1:41:15house when my thing is charging and that
1:41:17is way way way slower but even if it's
1:41:20just like within the same room like
1:41:21imagine putting your phone on your
1:41:23nightstand to charge at night but not
1:41:25plugging it in and not having to put it
1:41:27on a pad and not having your brain Sully
1:41:29microwave by the thing that's near yeah
1:41:31that's a little concerning to be honest
1:41:33and then my phones you can scratch it by
1:41:35the by my nightstand like I have a
1:41:37little dock it's great see I think I
1:41:39think the real reason why dog industry
1:41:41yeah yeah I know I think the real reason
1:41:43why Apple is going to switch the USBC on
1:41:45the phone is that I just got these
1:41:48awesome studio need docs for everything
1:41:50and they're really nice so now whenever
1:41:52i buy new docks last time when they
1:41:54change the Lightning was right after i
1:41:55bought the elevation dock and so now
1:41:58that i bought new docks finally i
1:42:00finally replaced my elevation docks
1:42:01after five years or what however long
1:42:03it's been now Apple is going to change
1:42:06away from lightning and maybe buy all
1:42:07new docks well the good news for the
1:42:10Kickstarter for
1:42:12iOS device Doc's made of like you know
1:42:15fancy burled walnut and all sorts of
1:42:17other things I have the good news is
1:42:19that once wireless charging is here you
1:42:21can still sell those same docs it's even
1:42:22easier because they don't have to even
1:42:24charge it's just basically like a little
1:42:26stand for your phone like a little home
1:42:28for it just it props it up and makes it
1:42:30look cute because in the end I mean I
1:42:33know you think that IO is a charging
1:42:34dock it's very important that it charted
1:42:36in the end it's a little stand for your
1:42:38phone it's a nice stand for my phone I
1:42:41know I'm just saying like that industry
1:42:43will not be decimated by wireless
1:42:44charging in fact that industry will be
1:42:46freed from having to worry about the
1:42:47silly electronics and they can
1:42:49concentrate where they really care about
1:42:50which is fine materials and
1:42:53craftsmanship and so on and so forth and
1:42:55you can use all the money you're saving
1:42:56by not buying two sets of cables for
1:42:58everything and just dump it all into
1:42:59docs that's right yea Bwana made from
1:43:01what is your little heavy cylinder made
1:43:03out of tungsten tungsten yeah thanks to
1:43:07our three sponsors this week Casper
1:43:08betterment and square space and we will
1:43:10see you next week now the show is over
1:43:16they didn't even mean to begin as it was
1:43:20accidental oh it was accidental John
1:43:25didn't
1:43:26research Marco and Casey wouldn't let
1:43:29him cuz it was accidental and it was
1:43:33accidental and you can find the show
1:43:37notes at adp FM and if more into twitter
1:43:42you can follow them at cas eyl ISS so
1:43:50that's Casey list and a our CEO a RM can
1:43:54t marco arment SI r kc us a Syracuse
1:44:13ah what is going on my mouse every great
1:44:16once in a while this happens my beloved
1:44:18magic mouse is like lagging to hell and
1:44:21it just just wants to be harpooned yep
1:44:23it happens to me too you see me tweeting
1:44:25about that a few days ago oh yeah you're
1:44:27right i never i don't think i think i
1:44:29told you it never happens to me in fact
1:44:30but I lied I'm a darn dirty liar that
1:44:33that just happened to me and it's not
1:44:34the first time it's happened it appears
1:44:36to happen to everybody who has any apple
1:44:40bluetooth pointing device it happens to
1:44:42the track pads and the mice it happens
1:44:44to the old mice that use double a
1:44:45batteries and the new one that have the
1:44:47rechargeable harpoon thing it happens
1:44:49whether you're at a high battery level
1:44:50or a low battery level there seems to be
1:44:53very little correlation to any of these
1:44:55factors it just seems to happen to all
1:44:57of apple bluetooth devices so it's
1:44:59probably an issue with either all
1:45:01Bluetooth devices or at least apples
1:45:04Bluetooth devices doesn't happen to my
1:45:06wired keyboard or my wired logitech
1:45:08mouse from 1992 oh you're so old never
1:45:12doesn't stutter doesn't need to be
1:45:14recharged now I the mac pro that you
1:45:17have i'm pretty sure bluetooth was
1:45:18optional do you have bluetooth on that I
1:45:21don't know let's go find out I think it
1:45:24was like I think it was like a 60-hour
1:45:25option turn bluetooth on there is a
1:45:28button that says that i think i can
1:45:30click it it is currently off so I'm
1:45:31gonna sue my head oh yeah the poor me do
1:45:33you have it I did not get the Wi-Fi
1:45:35option on this by the way he s I'm
1:45:37thinking of so my mac does not have
1:45:39Wi-Fi maybe on I wonder if the 2006 Mac
1:45:43Pro maybe Bluetooth option on that one
1:45:44and maybe there's only Wi-Fi on yours it
1:45:46might have an optional mine I might have
1:45:48I might have checked the bluetooth boxes
1:45:49and I'm like maybe I'll get bluetooth
1:45:50peripherals Here I am eight years later
1:45:52still no bluetooth peripherals hey what
1:45:56else there to talk about you talk more
1:45:58about the mac pro if you want hard pass
1:46:01and I gotta get mean Tim Cook said
1:46:03nothing again yeah that's why that's why
1:46:05it's not you know this is not even on
1:46:07the topic this because there's nothing
1:46:09to discuss cuz there was nothing said
1:46:11well I'll give my two cents that I
1:46:14already gave and slacked it to put this
1:46:15one to bed it's uh he was asked in to
1:46:18shareholders meeting about like you know
1:46:20pro hardware and all the stuff we always
1:46:21whine about and he gave the same kind of
1:46:23non-committal
1:46:24like oh you know where we have things
1:46:26coming for pros and we do care about
1:46:28them despite all our actions to the
1:46:30contrary but he didn't say I'm being
1:46:31sarcastic man but anyway he gave the
1:46:32same kind of an answer he did last time
1:46:34that we talked about the lettuce to
1:46:35believe that an imac pro is coming or
1:46:37something and there was some discussion
1:46:39about like all right it what's so bad
1:46:41about this like in the hierarchy of
1:46:43things that Tim Cook could have said or
1:46:45done in relation to that where does this
1:46:47fall and I feel like saying nothing
1:46:49would have still been worse it's I feel
1:46:52like at this point it when there's a
1:46:53problem that a bunch of people see like
1:46:55some people are cranky about pro mac
1:46:56hardware right saying nothing is the
1:46:59worst choice because that's just like it
1:47:01just makes people angry it's like you're
1:47:02ignoring them or you're bearing that in
1:47:03the same people want some kind of answer
1:47:05saying something boring and
1:47:07non-committal and vague that's basically
1:47:08like Apple saying we think we have
1:47:11something for you is better than nothing
1:47:13because at the very least it says all
1:47:15right well this whether Apple whether
1:47:17it's true or not Apple thinks they have
1:47:20something that we're going to like in
1:47:21the future and you know that's kind of
1:47:23vague but like it strings us along and
1:47:26then I feel like the best thing they
1:47:29could have done is give a strong
1:47:31definitive answer that acknowledges the
1:47:34acknowledges the issue and then comes to
1:47:36a conclusion and so that could be we
1:47:39hear your concerns what we've decided we
1:47:41don't want to be in the pearl hardware
1:47:42business anymore perfectly valid it puts
1:47:44a lot end to all of our whining right
1:47:45look is like well what's done is done
1:47:47you know we can yell them about it but
1:47:49least we have a definitive answer or
1:47:50they could say we've heard your concerns
1:47:52we realize who dropped the ball but we
1:47:54are going to rededicate ourselves to pro
1:47:56hardware they didn't say that either so
1:47:58we get that we get the middle one the
1:48:00vague answer that tells us nothing
1:48:01there's still better than nothing but is
1:48:03still much worse than Apple definitively
1:48:06coming down in one direction or another
1:48:07they don't have to announce new products
1:48:09they don't have to promise them they
1:48:10could have said you know they have to
1:48:12acknowledge the situation say we realize
1:48:14we've dropped the ball and either but
1:48:17we've decided together this market or we
1:48:19are going to rededicate ourselves and
1:48:21they didn't do either one of those
1:48:22things so it's business as usual I think
1:48:24you and I just have different
1:48:25definitions of what nothing means you
1:48:28think he didn't say nothing I think he
1:48:30did say nothing but well not because he
1:48:33I by not by not saying like we're sorry
1:48:37you feel that like remember
1:48:38Final Cut Pro 10 thing what they
1:48:40basically said with that was like we're
1:48:41sorry you feel this way big Final Cut
1:48:43Pro 10 is the future get used to it
1:48:44right so instead of saying we're sorry
1:48:46you're sad about the pearl hardware but
1:48:48we're not doing that anymore get used to
1:48:49it like but like what that what he was
1:48:51trying to say what he tries to say every
1:48:53time in this vague thing is like I know
1:48:56you're sad now and I will not
1:48:58acknowledge that your sadness is founded
1:48:59in anything I know you're sad now but we
1:49:01have some really great stuff coming in
1:49:03the future and he always says that for
1:49:06Tim it's a Tim Cook ism to say boy we
1:49:09have a great road map we have great
1:49:11things coming and he says it frequently
1:49:13in earnings calls for years and years
1:49:15he's been saying in earnings calls and
1:49:16if you look back on those earring calls
1:49:18and you try to say three years ago when
1:49:20he said that on the earnings call what
1:49:22was he talking about what product was
1:49:24he's always so jazzed he's like we have
1:49:26some great things coming we have amazing
1:49:27product line I think you're gonna be
1:49:29super duper impressed and we get all
1:49:30excited and then if you go forward three
1:49:32years like when he said that what was he
1:49:34even talking about like was he talking
1:49:36about the watch or was that was that
1:49:38like the new retina iPad Mini it you
1:49:40can't even tell what he was talking
1:49:41about even after the fact but he always
1:49:43says like hang in there guys just
1:49:47because you don't know that we're gonna
1:49:48do a thing trust me in the future we're
1:49:50gonna do a thing and you're gonna like
1:49:52it and I think that is materially
1:49:53different than literally saying nothing
1:49:55like you know not answering the question
1:49:57and it is also different than then
1:49:59actually definitively saying they are
1:50:01aren't going to going to rededicate
1:50:03themselves to the pro market let's see
1:50:05it's because you can't associate what he
1:50:08says anything even after the fact it
1:50:10basically means nothing because it can
1:50:13you can apply his words to whatever you
1:50:16want them to be and he knows that like
1:50:19it that it's a non-committal statement
1:50:21so if he says we have great things down
1:50:23the pipe and it isn't at all what you
1:50:25want then by that's hot but then like
1:50:27you know when later comes and the great
1:50:29things they release aren't what you want
1:50:30what it doesn't invalidate what he said
1:50:33it just then then they're just a new
1:50:35excusive well they made something new it
1:50:37just wasn't for you they know that's the
1:50:39fuck all right but what if they never
1:50:40made another thing that they even
1:50:42pretended was her pro people they never
1:50:44made an imac pro like because then we
1:50:46could call him on it but by him saying
1:50:48this it's it's clear that Apple thinks
1:50:50they have something that propia
1:50:51like they may be wrong no it's in the
1:50:53past but at the very least I think what
1:50:56this says is is them saying we are going
1:50:59to release a new mac that we think will
1:51:01appeal to pros and all of us can say
1:51:02cynically well you're probably wrong
1:51:04they probably won't appeal to pros
1:51:05because you wrote your track record here
1:51:07is crap but at least you think you have
1:51:09something a little appeals to pros which
1:51:11is more substantive than just saying
1:51:12vague we have something coming I mean it
1:51:15eventually build up to the point like he
1:51:17did right before the trashcan we're at
1:51:18that point they were like stay tuned for
1:51:22exciting new Pro hardware which we all
1:51:26thought was going to be in a mac pro and
1:51:27totally was a new mac pro and so we'll
1:51:29see if that it builds to that but I feel
1:51:31like what Tim Cook is saying on this
1:51:33harbourfront here's like we're going to
1:51:35introduce a product that we think people
1:51:36who like the old Mac Pro will like and
1:51:38we probably won't because it'll be
1:51:40online I pro but whatever that's what i
1:51:42think is coming that is even what he
1:51:43said it like what he said was like you
1:51:45know things for like pro markets and
1:51:47especially creative pros you know what
1:51:50Apple pitches for creative pros the ipad
1:51:52pro and the macbook pro everything Tim
1:51:55Cook said could be just in reference to
1:51:57the updated imax and iPad pros they're
1:52:00gonna launch in two weeks or whatever it
1:52:01is like that like that something like it
1:52:03doesn't mean anything I don't thought
1:52:05about that all right so if those are set
1:52:08like if if in a year there's been no
1:52:10motion on anything that Apple's even
1:52:13pitching as a Mac made for pros I think
1:52:16people will be angry and they'll come
1:52:18back at Cinco can say you didn't deliver
1:52:20on those things as opposed to his other
1:52:21we have this great road maps the problem
1:52:23is we could cite well they did release a
1:52:25lot of cool stuff and any of that stuff
1:52:26could have applied we just can't tell
1:52:28what the hell he was talking about but
1:52:29it's not as if they didn't deliver
1:52:30because every year Apple releases great
1:52:32new stuff somewhere it's just never to
1:52:34stop max right so I I think that if know
1:52:38if it really is just like the new iPads
1:52:40people will be like well that's not what
1:52:42we thought you were talking about it all
1:52:43and they'll be pissed about and they'll
1:52:44come back even angrier with the same
1:52:45question whereas if Apple releases an
1:52:47imac pro people like oh all right well I
1:52:50guess this is what he was talking about
1:52:51but surprise were not happy because we
1:52:53wanted a better Mac Pro my concern with
1:52:56with cooks remarks in this area and and
1:52:59the resulting products that come out of
1:53:00Apple is that especially because he
1:53:03specifically called out he's
1:53:05he's someone ones like you know cruisers
1:53:07especially creative pros and they keep
1:53:10referring to a creative force created
1:53:12for is it seems like apples image of
1:53:15what a creative pro is is somebody
1:53:18drawing with the pencil on an iPad and
1:53:21that's one type of creative pro but
1:53:24that's a very very small percentage of
1:53:27them and that's also an like creative
1:53:30pros aren't all pros and Apple used to
1:53:34really own the market for so many kinds
1:53:38of pros they've really owned those
1:53:40markets so well for such a long time and
1:53:42it seems like all the market share that
1:53:47they've like shaved off in recent years
1:53:48by just neglect or cutting off support
1:53:51or cutting off product lines or features
1:53:52or whatever else are almost all like the
1:53:56Pro users that had it you know more
1:53:58complex or higher end needs than
1:54:01somebody drawing on an iPad and it
1:54:03doesn't seem like it seems like Tim
1:54:06Cook's Apple just either doesn't care
1:54:09about the other kinds of pro work and
1:54:11needs that are out there or they
1:54:14fundamentally don't understand it both
1:54:16of which are scary possibilities to me
1:54:18but I think it's very clear that at
1:54:20least one of those is true just that
1:54:22mkbhd video where he was complaining
1:54:24about his mac pro you guys yeah I'd is
1:54:28basically saying like he's he's got like
1:54:29the old 12-core trashcan Mac Pro the old
1:54:32/ current current yes the one you can
1:54:34still buy for like a thousand dollars
1:54:35and he uses Final Cut Pro to edit his
1:54:38videos and what he was basically saying
1:54:40is like people like why you even used in
1:54:41that crappy old Mac why'd you get like a
1:54:43fancy PC it was like well I like Final
1:54:45Cut for video editing I'm sure it's what
1:54:46he's used to and he's like I have
1:54:47plugged into the Final Cut that aren't
1:54:48available elsewhere and so on and so
1:54:50forth I think that's a good canary the
1:54:53whole Final Cut Pro think so aperture is
1:54:55gone right Final Cut Pro is kind of the
1:54:59last bastion of proneness like the video
1:55:04market right and it is currently being
1:55:07woefully under served by their the
1:55:10current trashcan and anything else I
1:55:11feel like I mean maybe maybe I'm wrong
1:55:13maybe people are editing entire movies
1:55:15on their macbook once and I'm just silly
1:55:17for thinking this but whatever mkbhd who
1:55:19does video for a living wants his mac
1:55:21pro maybe it's just cuz he's like a
1:55:22computer gear head like we are no no he
1:55:26actually needs it yeah but and he says
1:55:29that even despite that 12 core being old
1:55:30and creaky that he does still get better
1:55:33performance than he would with adobe
1:55:34premiere which is not an
1:55:35apples-to-apples comparison obviously
1:55:36that he does on a dormir on a fancy pc
1:55:39but up you know bomb eyes he just like
1:55:41Final Cut right if they drop final cut
1:55:44if they stop making it in the same way
1:55:45they stopped making aperture that will
1:55:48be an extremely strong signal because
1:55:50you're right Marco like what's left is
1:55:52it just people making artisanal sketches
1:55:55on virtual napkins is that it is that
1:55:56the only creative probe is even like
1:55:58real creator pro CD is freaking Adobe
1:55:59Illustrator like let's give your
1:56:01photoshop and illustrator is what they
1:56:02need to use to do their jobs and you
1:56:04know maybe like a page layout type of
1:56:06thing creative professionals like when
1:56:09they say that i would think of things
1:56:11like aperture hope not there anymore or
1:56:13lightroom because that's a mac
1:56:14application to write or things like
1:56:17Final Cut and premiere and so many
1:56:19markets like we again we've complained
1:56:21about so we get all of emails as a
1:56:22self-selecting people saying I work in
1:56:24this industry and I've watched my entire
1:56:26industry dump max as soon as they can
1:56:27switch all 2pcs because they realize
1:56:29that but doesn't care about them Apple
1:56:31makes final cut it's their own program
1:56:33presumably there is a team working on it
1:56:34right and they put a lot of effort into
1:56:36the Final Cut Pro 10 being a big leap
1:56:38over the other one and endured all the
1:56:40problems with that program and you know
1:56:41like like they as a company seem
1:56:44dedicated to resourcing and believing in
1:56:46that product in the same way that used
1:56:48to for aperture I suppose if they drop
1:56:50that then it will really be like alright
1:56:52Jim stop talking about professionals of
1:56:56any kind creative or otherwise because
1:56:58what the hell by the way on this mkbhd
1:57:02video you know what he says right before
1:57:04new Mac Pro obvious at my USB see ya yep
1:57:07well it's in the news it isn't the
1:57:09Newsies reading the same stories we are
1:57:11they up me wants us bc everywhere he's
1:57:13so much cooler than us that that's a
1:57:16pretty low bar I don't know he's pretty
1:57:18nerdy and you think he's cooler cuz he's
1:57:20young and handsome but he's pretty nerdy
1:57:22no I think I'm pretty sure he's cooler
1:57:24than us yeah I'm pretty sure he's
1:57:26considerate guy says it's a it's a low
1:57:28bar is he's cooler than Casey let's see
1:57:30well I don't know that's also a low bar
1:57:32that's
1:57:32if that's very flattering complimentary
1:57:33of you trying to try to put the the
1:57:35coolest among us to try to see if we can
1:57:38we can reach up the lever I mean the
1:57:40coolest among is definitely Casey and
1:57:42sorry Casey I think he's cool with a new
1:57:44so I think therefore that solves that
1:57:46solves the question right there I guess
1:57:48I guess you're right maybe if we can if
1:57:50we combine all three of our coolness
1:57:52then maybe we can maybe maybe all of us
1:57:55combined like Voltron it would still be
1:57:58I think it would still be a fight anyway
1:58:00coolest counts for nothing in this
1:58:01industry witness Bill Gates Steve
1:58:06Wozniak andy hertzfeld Bill Atkinson not
1:58:10cool people they're cooling the wrong
1:58:12way Bill Gates is cool in no ways but it
1:58:16is the is the antimatter of cool curing
1:58:20malaria not kids not carrying it you
1:58:23know what I mean