The Accidental Tech Podcast

213: Siri in a Can

 

  with this we're gonna have this exact [TS]

  same conversation about the goddamn Mac [TS]

  Pro whenever that gets refreshed much [TS]

  more conversation it's not going to be a [TS]

  new mac pro it's going to be a fancier [TS]

  imac it'll be a short conversation [TS]

  they'll be finding them I'll buy one [TS]

  anyway and that'll be that I agree with [TS]

  most what you just said except it'll be [TS]

  a short conversation yeah Thank You [TS]

  Marco Wow pletely agree I'll ask the [TS]

  show or two I'm just saying it's not [TS]

  like we're gonna be obsessing a shower [TS]

  too it'll last a month well I guess what [TS]

  we'll do is we'll go back to talking [TS]

  about the mac pro and they're like okay [TS]

  fine so they did this imac thing but now [TS]

  let's complain more about why they [TS]

  should actually do a real mac pro [TS]

  remember when they used to sell a [TS]

  professional computer 15 shows later so [TS]

  i think we finally wrapped that up but [TS]

  we won't be talking about the imac the [TS]

  mac pro will be we'll take care of in [TS]

  the shower too that's true and then and [TS]

  then one more show when we all get ours [TS]

  but then mostly will go back to [TS]

  complaining about seriously you're not [TS]

  really making the mac pro anymore [TS]

  especially if they don't say they're not [TS]

  making they keep selling the old one [TS]

  that'll be awesome like hell with the [TS]

  new imac it wa really see it it's got a [TS]

  Z on it but they keep selling the old [TS]

  Mac Pro would be like what are you doing [TS]

  what is it going through your head [TS]

  here's a question do you think on [TS]

  january first 2018 the 2013 back / will [TS]

  still be for sale no absolutely not I [TS]

  vote yes I I would if I had to pick I [TS]

  would vote no but it's not as big of a [TS]

  it's not as sure of things I I would [TS]

  hope it would be as I think about it I'm [TS]

  like you wanna bet five bucks betting [TS]

  your any money i'm guessing january [TS]

  first 2018 it's still for sale I'll take [TS]

  your five dollar bet yeah alright it's a [TS]

  deal because i think it's close that's [TS]

  why it interesting bit because i think [TS]

  they'll because i think they'll [TS]

  introduce and I Mac Pro and the like and [TS]

  this is the replacement for the mac pro [TS]

  like that's that's how I think it'll be [TS]

  position it will finally give them cover [TS]

  to can that stupid machine the cam began [TS]

  so my primary bet is that is that it [TS]

  this is still for sale the the 2013 [TS]

  trash yet Mac Pro is still for sale on [TS]

  John January first my secondary bet [TS]

  which I guess i will probably won't put [TS]

  money on but my secondary bit is that [TS]

  during the entire year of 2017 they [TS]

  won't actually address this issue [TS]

  publicly they won't even say anything of [TS]

  substance about any kind of future pro [TS]

  heart prototype hardware [TS]

  that basically like this this year will [TS]

  come and go with no changes to the mac [TS]

  pro in either the product line or in [TS]

  announcements pop vote if they make an [TS]

  imac proud as I count as them saying [TS]

  something all I think only that they [TS]

  discontinued the mac pro but what if [TS]

  they say this is our new vision for a [TS]

  hardware ball a lot but then also keep [TS]

  selling it for the same reason that [TS]

  keeps telling everything because [TS]

  somebody somewhere was to buy it well [TS]

  I'd still win the primary bed in that [TS]

  case the secondary bit of whether they [TS]

  like have done this I guess would depend [TS]

  on like it'd be a little bit Vega be [TS]

  like is it just like the same processor [TS]

  lines like you know like the Intel like [TS]

  6700 k whatever like if it has the word [TS]

  pro in the name like it's clear what [TS]

  they're talking about is even but if [TS]

  it's still pretty much an imac like it [TS]

  would need like a Zeon like that's like [TS]

  and not an e3 the e3 does not count as a [TS]

  Zeon is there at eight core is there an [TS]

  acorn on Z on until I know the in the [TS]

  future I think tips are said a while but [TS]

  like one of the various lakes coffee or [TS]

  whatever one of those are supposed to be [TS]

  a 6-core variant in the the series but [TS]

  if there is like a quote I mac pro but [TS]

  it still has the same consumer processor [TS]

  line that doesn't count to me that's [TS]

  just that's just my mac and yet because [TS]

  the imac is fine the imac is great i'm [TS]

  using one now like there's a lot of [TS]

  reasons to have an imac but they can't [TS]

  act pro on the end and sell it in space [TS]

  gray and charge more but if it doesn't [TS]

  have a xeon e5 in there that's that's [TS]

  not a mac pro i will argue about it [TS]

  later but i'm going to bed you Mac [TS]

  brought him out that's it yep I am I am [TS]

  tuckered out on the Mac Pro it doesn't [TS]

  take much to be fair now it doesn't so [TS]

  as always we start with follow-up and [TS]

  Lucas gosen goosen guy need to look [TS]

  these up before a record that's okay [TS]

  though Lucas JIRA hates he cited an [TS]

  existing app and we are not going to [TS]

  name that app that is currently on the [TS]

  iOS App Store that actually has [TS]

  overlapping windows and colin allen also [TS]

  wrote in to say that when he was working [TS]

  at blackboard they shipped a multi [TS]

  window ipad app with gestures now this [TS]

  is a long time ago from what i can tell [TS]

  so an allen's defense this you i was was [TS]

  modern at the time looking at it now is [TS]

  mildly alarming but there are things [TS]

  that are multi window [TS]

  in the on the iPad that exists either in [TS]

  the past or today so does that change [TS]

  how you feel about things in any way [TS]

  shape or form John no because everyone [TS]

  knows there's always things on the app [TS]

  store that violate guidelines like this [TS]

  that's the whole point of the App Store [TS]

  guidelines if you try to say you can try [TS]

  and did a little kid thing but why my [TS]

  sister get to have lollipop like it's [TS]

  just yes there are going to be [TS]

  applications that the somehow got by [TS]

  that didn't get flagged and yours gets [TS]

  flagged like your argument is always [TS]

  with with the rule system and not with [TS]

  like people who happen to have skated by [TS]

  I mean pick a guideline I guarantee you [TS]

  can find multiple applications on the [TS]

  app star the violet that guideline [TS]

  that's just the way it is but anyway I [TS]

  like seeing these examples of [TS]

  applications that actually shipped in [TS]

  this way and you know the world didn't [TS]

  come to an end and also apparently it [TS]

  was not a UI paradigm that was copied by [TS]

  lots of other application so I'm not [TS]

  quite sure how successful it was but I [TS]

  like the idea that few of them snuck [TS]

  through I like this better than the idea [TS]

  then of millions of apps that send you [TS]

  spam push notifications sneaking through [TS]

  quote unquote mm-hmm all right and then [TS]

  friend of the show Stephen Chow and [TS]

  Smith has put together a swift [TS]

  playground that will let you try the [TS]

  floating keyboard on an iPad so you [TS]

  would use the switch playgrounds app on [TS]

  the on the iPad and run the code that he [TS]

  is put on github I believe I have I [TS]

  intended to try this and then completely [TS]

  forgot about it but anyway you can [TS]

  download this drop it in Swift [TS]

  playgrounds and give it a shot have [TS]

  either of you tried this nope and see I [TS]

  really wish I have but it's not my mind [TS]

  John those are they get for adding [TS]

  anything resembling a programming [TS]

  environment to iOS because someone's [TS]

  like know what you can do with a [TS]

  programming language you can write [TS]

  programs then you know what those [TS]

  programs do they execute on your device [TS]

  without going app review just as if I'd [TS]

  uploaded them from Xcode but I don't [TS]

  have to do that because i don't have [TS]

  xcode i just run this playgrounds file [TS]

  and so dissolve apples worst fear is [TS]

  coming true oh no selector Swizz lling [TS]

  and private api's what will happen [TS]

  nothing will happen it's the answer oh I [TS]

  suppose you could probably you think you [TS]

  could probably you know trigger a bug to [TS]

  you know I guess you could crash the app [TS]

  obviously but uh well crashing [TS]

  playgrounds may not be such an [TS]

  achievement [TS]

  did you bring them could you bring down [TS]

  the whole OS x finding some kind of bug [TS]

  or doing something nasty to it anyway [TS]

  that's what programming is and this is [TS]

  this is fun way for people to try it to [TS]

  see if this little keyboard is worth [TS]

  anything it's kind of weird because [TS]

  you'd want to use it with thumbs like [TS]

  you would on a phone but you can't reach [TS]

  it with both your thumbs on an iPad like [TS]

  that's the whole deal that it is a tiny [TS]

  little floating keyboard that you can [TS]

  move where you want it to where you want [TS]

  to put it so it can be out of the way [TS]

  and not take up so much screen space but [TS]

  you can't type on it with two thumbs [TS]

  there's no maybe he put it in the corner [TS]

  I don't know I did there's no way to use [TS]

  it there's no way to use like you use it [TS]

  on your far although I know a lot of [TS]

  people myself included who frequently [TS]

  type with a single thumb on the on their [TS]

  phone so you ever do that where you're [TS]

  like you're one hand is occupied and [TS]

  you're texting something with a single [TS]

  thumb it's I'm I'm okay added yeah I [TS]

  wish I was there's swipe keyboards I [TS]

  haven't used one in a while in fact I [TS]

  just took that keyboard off my phone [TS]

  because I use it so rarely but the swype [TS]

  style keyboards and I think Google's [TS]

  keyboard G board or whatever it's called [TS]

  supports this the swype style keyboards [TS]

  are very good for one-handed use but I [TS]

  find that I don't use it often enough [TS]

  that I just made it go away I think my [TS]

  heavy have inappropriate thumb friction [TS]

  for a swype keyboard every time I try [TS]

  the mic and I can't find the right [TS]

  balance of enough pressure to be swiping [TS]

  correctly but not too much pressure that [TS]

  I'm like scrubbing my thumb against that [TS]

  I could just I need to tap item I'm not [TS]

  a swiper I remember seeing demos of this [TS]

  keyboard like wow this is awesome look [TS]

  at that little line darting from key to [TS]

  key but then when it comes time for my [TS]

  big meaty thumb to do that this it's [TS]

  it's hopeless so more priority if it [TS]

  works for you but I cannot get the [TS]

  swiping to work for me my word I don't [TS]

  even know what to make about this I we [TS]

  should just move on John can you tell us [TS]

  about Apple and education got a lot of [TS]

  feedback from people basically people in [TS]

  education people who read their teachers [TS]

  or school administrators or people who [TS]

  do I T in education I've tried to pull a [TS]

  few salient points out as a lot of [TS]

  people had you know very complicated [TS]

  detail stories about their one situation [TS]

  but I'm trying to generalize here so one [TS]

  theme i saw in a lot of the email was [TS]

  the recent in recent years pushed for [TS]

  one device per student [TS]

  which was not a thing when any of us [TS]

  were in school like that that not just [TS]

  in the super rich schools but then in [TS]

  all schools the ideal is when we're [TS]

  going to buy any kind of computing [TS]

  hardware for students who want to have [TS]

  one for every single student which was [TS]

  just not an option and you know in our [TS]

  days because you'd have a computer lab [TS]

  and like each classroom it out like one [TS]

  I'm agron to imax or something like but [TS]

  you know one computer for every student [TS]

  that wasn't really feasible when [TS]

  computers came with gigantic CRT's and [TS]

  took up a huge amount of room but now [TS]

  that they're all really small and [TS]

  portable and cheaper and you can pull [TS]

  that off so the one device per student [TS]

  accounts for an increase in overall [TS]

  volume of computing things that schools [TS]

  by which is good for good for google in [TS]

  this case because there there's someone [TS]

  most of them we had one report of [TS]

  technology getting more funding than [TS]

  like less sexy areas like music and arts [TS]

  which are you know parentally on a [TS]

  perennially underfunded because tech is [TS]

  sexy i think one of you brought this up [TS]

  in the last show like the idea that [TS]

  there's money to buy computery stuff [TS]

  because everyone agrees that computers [TS]

  are the future and our kids need [TS]

  computers and like I mean obviously the [TS]

  present now but when we were kids it was [TS]

  like Oh everyone's gonna learn computers [TS]

  because it's the future and if we get [TS]

  computers in our school everyone feels [TS]

  good about even though we're not [TS]

  entirely sure if these computers make [TS]

  education better in any possible way but [TS]

  hey at least kids blow computers there's [TS]

  still some of that in there and that's [TS]

  exciting for all the kids in your school [TS]

  to you know get iPads or get laptops or [TS]

  anything like that and a couple of [TS]

  people tell us that although Apple no [TS]

  longer makes education only models like [TS]

  the big ugly tooth and the emac the emac [TS]

  and stuff like that they do have special [TS]

  configurations of existing devices that [TS]

  like you can't buy in the store but only [TS]

  available for education and they also do [TS]

  a thing where they continue to sell [TS]

  devices in education even if the even [TS]

  after they're no longer for sale to [TS]

  consumers last time I remember them [TS]

  doing that in a big was the ipad 2 it [TS]

  was like gone for everybody but [TS]

  education can still buy it so they're [TS]

  still trying to do what they can to give [TS]

  education there's no real nice way to [TS]

  say this but like the cheaper crappier [TS]

  moms because every even the education [TS]

  only models like how are they different [TS]

  from the regular [TS]

  once they were cheaper which is [TS]

  important but they were also crappier [TS]

  because how do you get them cheaper you [TS]

  make them crappier and it always struck [TS]

  me as like a a weird bargain because do [TS]

  you want to give a ram starved computer [TS]

  to a school is a school the best [TS]

  equipped to wrangle a computer that is [TS]

  constantly running out of RAM especially [TS]

  in the bad old days without it without [TS]

  even any virtual memory on on max or [TS]

  without a good virtual memory system [TS]

  anyway that's less of a concern these [TS]

  days but just two down spec so badly and [TS]

  then put those machines into an [TS]

  environment where the people available [TS]

  to like baby them and coax every ounce [TS]

  of performance out of them like it's not [TS]

  that they don't have time for that much [TS]

  better to give them a computer that sort [TS]

  of works without anyone having to mess [TS]

  with it and if UD content a computer to [TS]

  use car parlance that's the bad [TS]

  situation but that's what they want they [TS]

  want it to be as cheap as possible so [TS]

  Apple would make them very cheap models [TS]

  and now Apple will keep selling new [TS]

  devices long after no person should ever [TS]

  be using them but I guess schools will I [TS]

  mean again I look at that like the [TS]

  laptop cart into my kids elementary [TS]

  school filled with ice books how old are [TS]

  those how old is that you know the white [TS]

  plastic I book that's an old machine [TS]

  like it was a great machine when it was [TS]

  available and apparently it was good for [TS]

  education because they aren't all dead [TS]

  right I don't know how sturdy I mean I'm [TS]

  assuming they're all like terribly [TS]

  yellowed and stained and gross from you [TS]

  know kids touching them because it was [TS]

  plastic but like you know computers last [TS]

  as long as I until they break because [TS]

  why would you get rid of them and they [TS]

  could just continue to try to find [TS]

  something useful to do with them and on [TS]

  that front by the way in terms of tech [TS]

  funding and everything I live in a place [TS]

  full of rich people and we have high [TS]

  taxes and we vote ourselves we have like [TS]

  the laws on the books say we can't raise [TS]

  taxes more than X percent per year and [TS]

  every year they have a vote to say if [TS]

  you really want to raise taxes on [TS]

  yourself vote for this and every year we [TS]

  vote for to like to bypass the thing to [TS]

  raise our taxes even more and despite [TS]

  all that our public schools you go into [TS]

  the moment and you know from the [TS]

  standards of my own childhood they are [TS]

  woefully underfunded in every single [TS]

  aspect large class sizes facilities all [TS]

  falling apart and the vast majority of [TS]

  the computing technology that arrives in [TS]

  the school on the year [TS]

  basis is paid for entirely out of the [TS]

  pocket of parents giving money to the [TS]

  school like voluntarily themselves just [TS]

  funding like that so that's more that [TS]

  says more about the state of public [TS]

  education funding in in our country than [TS]

  it does about things in tech but it's [TS]

  comparing it to my childhood when there [TS]

  was like a computer lab with a small [TS]

  number of computers and like my kids [TS]

  experience in school where there are [TS]

  more computers but that all of them had [TS]

  to be bought by the rich parents of the [TS]

  students who go to the school it [TS]

  certainly doesn't seem like we are in an [TS]

  age where it is accepted that schools [TS]

  will have like one device for student [TS]

  everyone will have at least an [TS]

  elementary school will have computers [TS]

  for everyone available it's like oh [TS]

  you'll have computers if you live in a [TS]

  place where all the parents have enough [TS]

  disposable income to each give hundreds [TS]

  of dollars to the school each year it's [TS]

  the same way we got a new playground by [TS]

  the way Oh collect money from all the [TS]

  rich parents I'm you know we're glad to [TS]

  do it because our kids are going there [TS]

  we have the money we pay for it but it [TS]

  seems like the wrong way to fund public [TS]

  education anyway that's I'm really off [TS]

  topic it's funny I probably have told [TS]

  the story once before but to just [TS]

  reiterate how terrible public education [TS]

  is even in relatively affluent areas I [TS]

  grew up in Fairfield County Connecticut [TS]

  which at the time because of other areas [TS]

  of the county was I believe the most [TS]

  affluent County in the entire country I [TS]

  lived in a very unremarkable part of it [TS]

  so it it was not quite the same for for [TS]

  me but certainly it was a fairly [TS]

  homogeneous reality' v'lay affluent area [TS]

  and every year probably about three [TS]

  quarters of lady through the year our [TS]

  copier paper or Xerox paper was [TS]

  perforated in a very weird way and [TS]

  curiously every single page we got said [TS]

  danbury hospital radiology department on [TS]

  the bottom of it and that's because the [TS]

  only way we could have copier paper the [TS]

  only way we could afford it is if the [TS]

  local hospital donated it to us and it [TS]

  was I guess their leftover that that [TS]

  they had had perforated in a particular [TS]

  way for their particular use but we just [TS]

  rolled with it because what other choice [TS]

  did we have and unlike you guys who are [TS]

  I guess better than than we were at the [TS]

  time we would beg to raise taxes just [TS]

  the tiniest littlest bit to give the [TS]

  schools little breathing room and every [TS]

  time it was shot down and even as a kid [TS]

  it drove me [TS]

  I don't know Marco you're only like a [TS]

  year away from dealing with this right [TS]

  oh man yeah I mean kindergarten trucks [TS]

  this fall for a kid so here we go yeah [TS]

  have you for preschool for daycare heavy [TS]

  as they probably not because that's like [TS]

  privately funded but kindergarten to see [TS]

  if this is like a nationwide thing are [TS]

  just in certain areas I was surprised [TS]

  when I first could enter kindergarten [TS]

  that one of the things that teachers [TS]

  would ask for is paper towels and [TS]

  tissues and things like that yet seem [TS]

  like staples of the classroom like hey [TS]

  parents like it when I was a kid when [TS]

  the teachers asked the parents for [TS]

  anything it was hey parents have your [TS]

  kids bring in some canned food for a [TS]

  food drive for the needy right instead [TS]

  it my experience with my own children [TS]

  it's hey parents please bring in boxes [TS]

  of tissues because if you don't there [TS]

  will be no tissues in the classroom [TS]

  because we have no money for them which [TS]

  is like seriously like I'm these are not [TS]

  frill that's the whole thing like oh we [TS]

  want to buy a fancy new imac every year [TS]

  it's like we need literal tissues for [TS]

  kids with buggery noses in kindergarten [TS]

  and there is no money to pay for them [TS]

  like we can we can put a building that [TS]

  keeps the rain out and we can keep the [TS]

  temperature vaguely within human [TS]

  habitable range but beyond that you know [TS]

  you're on your own so it's time to [TS]

  everyone to pitch in and make sure that [TS]

  we have tissues and paper towels for [TS]

  kids in the class yeah that's a teacher [TS]

  still by a lot more than most people [TS]

  know or expect teacher still by these [TS]

  kind of supplies out of their own pocket [TS]

  it's kind of horrible like it you know [TS]

  teachers all know this and families of [TS]

  teachers all know this but most people [TS]

  don't and it's kind of sad and you know [TS]

  cuz T it's not like teachers are paid a [TS]

  lot to begin with so like you have these [TS]

  jobs that are already not paid you know [TS]

  what they're worth and then you have the [TS]

  teachers having to buy like basic [TS]

  supplies for their classroom out of [TS]

  their own pockets that that seems so [TS]

  incredibly wrong to me yeah but yeah for [TS]

  those that don't know Aaron was a high [TS]

  school teacher in a reasonably affluent [TS]

  area of Richmond until she had Declan [TS]

  and it was expected that at all grade [TS]

  levels every single teacher and so this [TS]

  is every high school teacher you have [TS]

  will send home a list and there was a [TS]

  term for it and for lightning I can't [TS]

  remember what the name of it was but [TS]

  they would send home a list of supplies [TS]

  that every student was [TS]

  to get so every student was expected to [TS]

  bring Erin like one pack of tissues and [TS]

  one set of like whiteboard markers [TS]

  because we didn't have blackboards they [TS]

  had white boards in like a handful of [TS]

  other things and this was not unusual [TS]

  this was expected in our schools as far [TS]

  as I can tell are reasonably well funded [TS]

  I mean this that's not the utter [TS]

  disaster that is happening in many many [TS]

  many parts of the country but even still [TS]

  there they're so they're so big a [TS]

  discrepancy between what teachers need [TS]

  and what teachers can provide and what [TS]

  the schools can provide that they would [TS]

  have the parents bring all this stuff [TS]

  into it was it was totally bananas but [TS]

  it's what they had to do we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by eero visit [TS]

  eurocom for more info ero is the [TS]

  solution to mediocre home Wi-Fi coverage [TS]

  because let's face it we have so many [TS]

  Wi-Fi devices these days you know we now [TS]

  we have beyond our computers and phones [TS]

  we have speakers thermostats light bulbs [TS]

  everything all over our smart homes now [TS]

  and Wi-Fi it just doesn't reach most of [TS]

  your home if you only have one regular [TS]

  router euro is designed to change all of [TS]

  this era manufactures a single device [TS]

  it's a small box about the size of an [TS]

  apple TV and it serves as a wireless [TS]

  router and with a dead simple app you [TS]

  can put multiple eros throughout your [TS]

  home they sell them in sets you can just [TS]

  buy one if you want to but you're really [TS]

  getting the BET the biggest benefit if [TS]

  you have two or three the first one [TS]

  replaces your existing router you just [TS]

  plug your ethernet wiring into it from [TS]

  your dsl modem your cable modem and [TS]

  additional eros you just plug them in [TS]

  for a standard power outlet and then [TS]

  they connect wirelessly to each other to [TS]

  form a mesh network that blankets your [TS]

  home in fast reliable Wi-Fi a [TS]

  distributed system like this is way [TS]

  better than just having one router with [TS]

  a whole bunch of antennas on top of it [TS]

  or any kind of traditional range [TS]

  extenders euro is actually better [TS]

  because it creates a separate network to [TS]

  talk to the other euro routers on which [TS]

  is way faster and it doesn't as it [TS]

  doesn't have nearly as much of a speed [TS]

  hit as a typical range extender they [TS]

  recommend one euro per roughly every [TS]

  thousand square feet of your house so [TS]

  the average us home you need probably [TS]

  two or three of them [TS]

  3-pack is a great starting point check [TS]

  it out today there's a 30 day money-back [TS]

  guarantee so if you end up having too [TS]

  many if you don't need let's say you buy [TS]

  the 3-pack you only need to within 30 [TS]

  days you're going to return the extra [TS]

  one and you'll get you get part of your [TS]

  money back euro has been reviewed and [TS]

  seen on tons of press outlets Wall [TS]

  Street Journal USA Today the verge [TS]

  TechCrunch everywhere they have a [TS]

  massively great star rating on amazon [TS]

  right now it's like four or four and a [TS]

  half stars and Amazon you will see for [TS]

  yourself and they did something cool [TS]

  here they know that if I just tell you [TS]

  to go to their site and get into a promo [TS]

  code there's a good chance you're gonna [TS]

  buy it from amazon or something anyway [TS]

  so there's no more promo code everyone [TS]

  gets the same low prices now the three [TS]

  pack is now a hundred dollars off [TS]

  permanently lowered from 449 23 29 so [TS]

  now for just four hundred bucks you get [TS]

  a three pack of these if you only need [TS]

  two of them that's just 300 bucks now 50 [TS]

  bucks less than it was before to get ero [TS]

  at this new low price you can visit [TS]

  eurocom that's eer Oh calm or you can [TS]

  just go to bestbuy or Amazon if you want [TS]

  to do that too and buy them there check [TS]

  it out today ero eer oh thank you very [TS]

  much to ear of responsive it came out I [TS]

  don't know at this point it was probably [TS]

  almost a month ago may it was a couple [TS]

  weeks ago at the very least and it's an [TS]

  ATP bringing cutting-edge news as we [TS]

  always do and this is at apple.com / iOS [TS]

  / home there'll be a link in the show [TS]

  notes and this is the home kit like demo [TS]

  promo commercially video thing and I [TS]

  watched it once when I first came out I [TS]

  haven't seen it since but the general [TS]

  gist of it was there's a young woman who [TS]

  wakes up and in has her breakfast which [TS]

  is all automated and leaves the house [TS]

  which is all automated and then [TS]

  eventually comes home which is all [TS]

  automated and watches a movie which is [TS]

  all automated and reads in bed which is [TS]

  I guess reading in bed and then turns [TS]

  off for lights which is automated and [TS]

  it's all amazing and perfect in every [TS]

  way and as someone who doesn't really do [TS]

  any of the robots in a cylinder sort of [TS]

  thing this looked pretty impressive to [TS]

  me it looked cool I can't say that I [TS]

  have the Fate I don't know where I would [TS]

  even get a home kit powered thing as far [TS]

  as I'm concerned they're still all but [TS]

  vaporware but apparently they exist [TS]

  because they're all in this lady's house [TS]

  so I don't know there's been a little [TS]

  bit of chatter [TS]

  about this do you want to tell us about [TS]

  a John this is a tweet from Scott [TS]

  McNulty on twitter i'm not sure if he [TS]

  has all these devices i know he's got a [TS]

  million Kindles but i'm not sure if he [TS]

  has all that stuff but anyway he's tweet [TS]

  about it about this new website that i [TS]

  was to promote home kit was nice website [TS]

  but the film to show cases to me how [TS]

  much easier it is to tell LexA to do all [TS]

  the same things because the video shows [TS]

  for the most part the the person [TS]

  touching big rounded rectangles on iOS [TS]

  devices whether they be iPads or phone [TS]

  to do things there is hasty good morning [TS]

  at the very beginning speaking to your [TS]

  phone that's on your nightstand and [TS]

  having it set your thing up for the [TS]

  morning and also later speaking directly [TS]

  into the tiny horrible Apple TV remote [TS]

  to say okay it's movie time to start a [TS]

  movie although I'm not quite sure what [TS]

  it does if you just say it's movie time [TS]

  does it pick a random movie anyway [TS]

  though those are both examples of [TS]

  speaking what I knew I shouldn't have [TS]

  activated that thing that I just said [TS]

  but I did activist on my phone I have [TS]

  never had a telephone enabled until very [TS]

  very recently and now i'm going to this [TS]

  is all stated but that's totally stated [TS]

  anyway why do you turn that on i turned [TS]

  on to see if I turned it on as an aside [TS]

  I turned it on like a week or so ago [TS]

  because I'm like look everyone else has [TS]

  this on on their phone and I've had it [TS]

  all exactly the for exactly the reason [TS]

  you would think you would have it off [TS]

  because I never wanted to accidentally [TS]

  activate but very freaking all this gets [TS]

  to the point of this thing I have a [TS]

  cylinder that listens to me in my home [TS]

  now and I like the idea that i can just [TS]

  say things into the air and I'm like you [TS]

  know what maybe that kind of [TS]

  relationship with my phone is just there [TS]

  waiting for me and I've been too [TS]

  stubborn by keeping this feature off [TS]

  since it was introduced like literally [TS]

  never turning it on never even trying it [TS]

  because it just sounded awful to me so I [TS]

  should really give it a chance and in [TS]

  this week or two that I've had it on I [TS]

  have used it consciously about once and [TS]

  now I have triggered it accidentally [TS]

  once that's the first time I've ever [TS]

  accidentally triggered it because what [TS]

  occasion do I have to say that with my [TS]

  phone nearby but for this for this video [TS]

  showing speaking not to the air but to a [TS]

  device that you know is nearby whether [TS]

  it's your remote in your hand or a phone [TS]

  on your your nightstand is to me [TS]

  different then just yelling into the air [TS]

  not yelling or just speaking into the [TS]

  air the way you do with the cylinder is [TS]

  that all the other things that are in [TS]

  this video and like a lot of using that [TS]

  the home kit thing on on control center [TS]

  the third screen over or the hell it is [TS]

  maybe it's the second I don't know and [TS]

  pressing those rectangles to say I'm [TS]

  here I'm doing this I want to do that [TS]

  change to this mode we're just fine like [TS]

  it's good to have buttons for all this [TS]

  stuff but like Scott McNulty says in his [TS]

  tweet anybody who has cylinders that [TS]

  listened to you when you talk in the air [TS]

  like that is the killer feature to be [TS]

  able to just stroll around and just say [TS]

  something and have it do things whether [TS]

  it's asking you to set a timer or asking [TS]

  what the weather is going to be tomorrow [TS]

  or telling it to turn lights on or off [TS]

  or whatever phrases you enter into the [TS]

  thing like just getting used to be able [TS]

  to say that even for our thing like the [TS]

  stupid stuff asking you how to spell [TS]

  things and multiply and divide numbers [TS]

  like or define things or say something [TS]

  in a particular language I don't have to [TS]

  wonder is my phone in this room will it [TS]

  hear me from that distance will I be [TS]

  able to hear it you know that or [TS]

  multiple phones in the room and they all [TS]

  have that feature whose damn i'm not [TS]

  going to say activated on it will they [TS]

  all wake up and start trying to answer [TS]

  at the same time and everything like [TS]

  that the cylinders simplify all of this [TS]

  and so this video I kind of feel the [TS]

  same way this video basically says hey [TS]

  we at Apple have home automation it's [TS]

  massively less convenient than the [TS]

  cylinders you talk to but it exists and [TS]

  if you like tapping buttons boys it's a [TS]

  thing for you and I feel like they're [TS]

  really they're really missing the boat [TS]

  on this type of home automation and it [TS]

  makes me think once again that as silly [TS]

  as these little cylinders are everyone [TS]

  who gets one ends up liking it for [TS]

  something like they end up liking it [TS]

  more than they thought they would [TS]

  because it certainly seems pretty dumb [TS]

  and even if they only use one tiny [TS]

  corner of the functionality that tiny [TS]

  corner functionality becomes an [TS]

  important part of their life and that I [TS]

  think shows a successful product so I [TS]

  think Apple not having something like [TS]

  this for such a long time either because [TS]

  they're coming up with the super duper [TS]

  awesome one's going to be way better [TS]

  than everybody else's and cost twice as [TS]

  much or because they just thinks it's a [TS]

  dumb idea I think they're missing the [TS]

  boat and this website is like a giant [TS]

  advertisement for them missing the boat [TS]

  yeah because like you know as more [TS]

  people get these devices to like timing [TS]

  to the market is kind of important here [TS]

  there is a significant first mover [TS]

  advantage because once you have you know [TS]

  a couple of these cylinders in your [TS]

  house from one of the brands that sells [TS]

  them if Apple's comes out and is just a [TS]

  little bit better no one's gonna buy it [TS]

  like the only it has to be massively [TS]

  better to get people who have already [TS]

  bought into these systems to convert [TS]

  over and like you know right now I I [TS]

  have the Amazon ecosystem I have a short [TS]

  cylinder of my office and a tall [TS]

  cylinder in the kitchen and you know and [TS]

  when the google home came out I you know [TS]

  I heard what most people said about and [TS]

  I was initially interested but then once [TS]

  everyone once all the reviews came out [TS]

  and basically said like yeah it's fine [TS]

  it's just about as good as the Amazon [TS]

  echo it's not you know massively better [TS]

  or worse it's about the same better in [TS]

  some ways worse than others but about [TS]

  the same overall then I immediately lost [TS]

  any interest in ever trying it because I [TS]

  well you know you know I already have [TS]

  one it's all set up I have all my all my [TS]

  integration set up I'm habituated to [TS]

  saying its commands and and using it to [TS]

  control stuff in my house and play music [TS]

  and stuff so why why would I switch if [TS]

  the other thing is not massively better [TS]

  and so if Apple comes out with their [TS]

  version of the Amazon echo or Google [TS]

  home or whatever else and it's you know [TS]

  Syrian a can like it then it has to be [TS]

  way way better for me to care and for [TS]

  anyone who's bought any of these devices [TS]

  to care and I think the chances of that [TS]

  are just not that great seeing how [TS]

  syriac chua Lee is and has been today in [TS]

  the competitive landscape and and seeing [TS]

  apples recent you know kind of accessory [TS]

  hardware in the two hundred dollar range [TS]

  like the Apple TV or them killing the [TS]

  airport base stations like seeing their [TS]

  efforts in the in this kind of area [TS]

  recently it just doesn't fill me with [TS]

  confidence that if they do one of these [TS]

  things that it's going to be massively [TS]

  better than what we already have so it's [TS]

  probably just going to be [TS]

  roughly the same if not worse and as you [TS]

  said twice as expensive probably so I [TS]

  don't really see that going anywhere i [TS]

  think the typical apple you know the [TS]

  pattern of sitting back and kind of [TS]

  waiting until everyone has like version [TS]

  2 and then rolling out the amazing apple [TS]

  one that might not work here i I think [TS]

  that might just be more like what we see [TS]

  with the Apple TV which is some people [TS]

  buy it you know the the really devoted [TS]

  Apple fans buy it but it doesn't have [TS]

  mass market success because it's just [TS]

  you know more expensive than everything [TS]

  else but not better enough and possibly [TS]

  even not better the one thing by all [TS]

  accounts that Apple is doing better than [TS]

  its competitors is security like being [TS]

  very careful but really a partner with [TS]

  and having very strict requirements on [TS]

  security and privacy surely they are [TS]

  better on privacy than Google and Amazon [TS]

  are although there was that case where [TS]

  was some some law enforcement agency was [TS]

  trying to subpoena audio recordings from [TS]

  Amazon echo or something in Amazon I [TS]

  think this was Amazon did fight them on [TS]

  it and said no you can't have our stuff [TS]

  and they're trying to like get get that [TS]

  audio classified in a way that it makes [TS]

  it not available without a warrant and [TS]

  all these other things right so but [TS]

  there are a lot of security implications [TS]

  to all these devices which at this point [TS]

  you just have to accept that you are [TS]

  compromising security in some way by [TS]

  using any of these things and apple with [TS]

  home kit seems to be trying to avoid [TS]

  silly situations where a vendor [TS]

  integrates with you and does something [TS]

  extremely lacks when it comes to [TS]

  security and you know has some obvious [TS]

  flaw that either makes devices in your [TS]

  houses into botnets or into spy devices [TS]

  and stuff like that and that's good like [TS]

  good in general with Apple tends to be [TS]

  good on security and privacy but so far [TS]

  consumers have shown no willingness to [TS]

  value privacy in their purchase [TS]

  decisions like that is not a [TS]

  differentiating not enough of a [TS]

  differentiating factor you know even [TS]

  even in the phone space like Apple is is [TS]

  very good on privacy and security with [TS]

  its phones but I don't think that's why [TS]

  people are buying iphones like they're [TS]

  buying because they like iphones and [TS]

  it's a nice to have and it's a perkin or [TS]

  whatever but like people are voting with [TS]

  their wallets [TS]

  by buying you name it light bulbs [TS]

  television cylinders that you talk to [TS]

  with terrible security and privacy that [TS]

  like literally intentionally spying you [TS]

  record everything you say and doing then [TS]

  then sell it to people and everyone's [TS]

  like oh well with our TV works looks [TS]

  nice you know like so it's not that [TS]

  that's how the market is working right [TS]

  now and what people can't do if people [TS]

  don't value don't value it do we need to [TS]

  change something for people to value it [TS]

  do we need a new generation of people in [TS]

  the aftermath of some terrible [TS]

  privacy-related thing to deal with this [TS]

  are we are we just happy to leave it to [TS]

  the legal system say like well people [TS]

  get hacked and hacking is illegal and if [TS]

  it happens you know someone will stop [TS]

  them someone someone but blah blah blah [TS]

  Big Sky theory no one cares about what [TS]

  I'm doing anyway so I'll just buy this [TS]

  vizio tv and get spied on or whatever it [TS]

  is now and it's true it's true of the [TS]

  Google cylinder that i have is probably [TS]

  true of the Amazon ones and it's you [TS]

  know weeks we accept it for the [TS]

  trade-offs even Marco famous paranoid [TS]

  privacy advocate who won't put pre [TS]

  compiled binaries into his application [TS]

  is willing to trade a devices in his [TS]

  house constantly recording him for the [TS]

  convenience of saying something I was [TS]

  like to go out at night well and to be [TS]

  fair I'm that I'm risking my own [TS]

  personal privacy with with that one and [TS]

  then you know that's very different from [TS]

  risking the privacy of my entire [TS]

  customer base of my hat you're trading [TS]

  your trading the thing that you can [TS]

  trade was like it seems like a fair [TS]

  trade to you're like well normally cares [TS]

  about me and whatever and I get this [TS]

  convenience and you weigh them and you [TS]

  like well convene twins in this case [TS]

  right you know I don't have any of these [TS]

  devices in the house like I said earlier [TS]

  and have only interacted with them a [TS]

  couple of times and I don't think I get [TS]

  it like it's neat I suppose but I don't [TS]

  know I don't die this is like the old [TS]

  man portion of the show and I'm [TS]

  surprised took us this long to get here [TS]

  but I don't really see how getting up in [TS]

  walking a few cases to turn away so [TS]

  terrible like and I know I know that [TS]

  makes me know man i know that makes me [TS]

  backwards and ridiculous i understand [TS]

  you can't write a letter on a piece of [TS]

  paper and wine to the mailbox is the [TS]

  mailbox too far away you gotta have this [TS]

  electronic messages i know i completely [TS]

  agree with you and if the roles were [TS]

  reversed I would be saying the exact [TS]

  same thing to you like it [TS]

  this I know I say this a lot and I'm [TS]

  always wrong and so I'm sure this is [TS]

  another time but this fills a need that [TS]

  I don't feel like I have fast-forward to [TS]

  six months from now gonna have probably [TS]

  a an Amazon cylinder Google cylinder [TS]

  maybe even an apple cylinder and I'll [TS]

  love all of them their own special way [TS]

  there'll be my mind my children at that [TS]

  point but sitting here now I just [TS]

  there's no integration there's no thing [TS]

  that I that I can see today that makes [TS]

  me want one of them in and I bet you [TS]

  anything if one showed up at the house I [TS]

  would end up loving it but it's just [TS]

  it's even this video I watched and [TS]

  thought well yeah that's cool but I [TS]

  don't it's not it's solving problems I [TS]

  don't think I have it's like any of [TS]

  those things where you don't know you [TS]

  have the need until you have it and it's [TS]

  not going to be like a life-changing [TS]

  thing like the iPhone was like you know [TS]

  but but I feel like everyone has one [TS]

  like we use our as less than I thought I [TS]

  would because basically I was betting on [TS]

  Google making their product better [TS]

  faster than they actually are so oh well [TS]

  better me if only you had friends who [TS]

  told you beforehand to pick the other [TS]

  one i don't think i would use the other [TS]

  one anymore because i think it's [TS]

  basically a wash at this point but [TS]

  anyway apparently here's here's yeah you [TS]

  know because it does it is really good [TS]

  at the things that it does do but [TS]

  eventually once you realize these things [TS]

  are there and start to get into the [TS]

  mindset what was it like we're sitting [TS]

  down ours is it within earshot when we [TS]

  sit down to dinner and we're sitting [TS]

  about dinner trying to think of talking [TS]

  about some songs someone heard and [TS]

  because i subscribed to google play [TS]

  music another reason by the way that i [TS]

  wouldn't want an apple one is that i [TS]

  would it would make me have to subscribe [TS]

  to Apple music to do what I'm about to [TS]

  describe we're having some discussion [TS]

  about a song and I can just say into the [TS]

  air I can just request into the air for [TS]

  that song to be played almost any song [TS]

  that could be played and it just starts [TS]

  playing it because we were having a [TS]

  discussion of what the lyrics for and [TS]

  how it sounds and the kids wanted to [TS]

  hear it and you know what has to get up [TS]

  from the table or pull out their phone [TS]

  and try to search for the song I just [TS]

  say something into the air before you [TS]

  even get your phone out of your pocket [TS]

  and the song is playing and that is a [TS]

  weird future world thing that I think is [TS]

  awesome and it is it a big deal and is [TS]

  it a need no it's not but for the [TS]

  hundred and ten dollars or whatever I [TS]

  pay for the stupid cylinder to be able [TS]

  to say words into the air and have a [TS]

  song that I requested play immediately I [TS]

  think that's like worth the price of [TS]

  entry even if I only do that once every [TS]

  week and a half and the rest of time my [TS]

  kids are just asking how to say things [TS]

  in foreign languages like this is all [TS]

  this is all bonus now it's not again not [TS]

  a life-changing thing but once you get [TS]

  used to the idea that something is [TS]

  constantly singing your house and can [TS]

  conceivably do things that you find [TS]

  useful it's hard to go back to the idea [TS]

  that nothing is listening and you have [TS]

  to actually pick something up and hit it [TS]

  with your fingers because there is a big [TS]

  difference in how it feels to do [TS]

  something it's kind of like difference [TS]

  in how it feels to pull out your phone [TS]

  and look something up versus how it feel [TS]

  to get in your car and drive to the [TS]

  library and look something up and now [TS]

  this is you know it's interesting it's [TS]

  like you know I it's an exponential type [TS]

  thing where like obviously library on is [TS]

  way longer than the looking on the phone [TS]

  but now like how much how much longer is [TS]

  saying something into the air to your [TS]

  phone it's probably a couple seconds [TS]

  couple minute but man feels it feels so [TS]

  different and you just can't go back to [TS]

  the other way and if you wanted to go [TS]

  home full home automation everything and [TS]

  cook stuff up to it and do all stuff [TS]

  like that that feel like you're starting [TS]

  to get into tech gadget land at that [TS]

  point but but that can be awesome too [TS]

  especially if it's like a hobby to have [TS]

  a house where you can just say things [TS]

  and have it do stuff and work with your [TS]

  rhythms there's I think these devices [TS]

  can be enjoyed at many levels and as we [TS]

  said last time we discussed this most [TS]

  importantly they're all freaking cheap [TS]

  in the grand scheme of things like [TS]

  they're not three dollars but they're [TS]

  also not two thousand dollars like a new [TS]

  macbook right you can get one of these [TS]

  you can buy all of these you can put [TS]

  them up what is the dot one what is the [TS]

  short sale under marcos like it's like [TS]

  40 bucks is 40 bucks yeah it's really [TS]

  cheap you can get one of these things [TS]

  you know on a whim just to see if you [TS]

  might like it and throw it somewhere and [TS]

  if you never use it you're like oh well [TS]

  it's forty dollars it's like a nice meal [TS]

  for one person like whatever you know to [TS]

  answer your earlier question case like [TS]

  you know you don't see what you know why [TS]

  it would be a big deal to have faster [TS]

  light switches or something the answer [TS]

  is that there's there's like one thing [TS]

  that gets most owners in the door and [TS]

  four for most people i've talked to and [TS]

  been around and seen be converted [TS]

  including myself that one thing is music [TS]

  you know [TS]

  with John said like it really isn't [TS]

  awesome to be able to just say Alexa [TS]

  play fish and have that just work for [TS]

  all of our lives on purpose in terrible [TS]

  terrible troll not the first time that [TS]

  or you know and you can say you know hey [TS]

  cylinder play rock music from the 90's [TS]

  or like there are it's just really [TS]

  really nice to have that like there's a [TS]

  reason why like places like Sonos or [TS]

  having trouble now like anything that is [TS]

  involved in the high-end audio scene for [TS]

  tech geeks that is not voice controlled [TS]

  as having problems right now because [TS]

  it's once once you get into voice [TS]

  control music it is so awesome [TS]

  especially like when you know if you're [TS]

  having like friends over for dinner or [TS]

  something else and you just have it [TS]

  playing and you can just anybody can [TS]

  just say you know next song or pause or [TS]

  volume up whatever else and our people [TS]

  can call out their own request like it's [TS]

  fun it becomes a cool a pretty cool [TS]

  thing the the echo is not a great [TS]

  speaker it's only an okay speaker [TS]

  literally like in my house it is sitting [TS]

  right next to a sonos speaker that is [TS]

  way way better sounding and the sonos [TS]

  speaker almost never gets used anymore [TS]

  because it is just so much more [TS]

  convenient to use the echo for music [TS]

  purposes and so anyway you know what [TS]

  gets someone in is usually one cool [TS]

  thing that they like see or hear about [TS]

  and they're like oh my god I want it for [TS]

  that but then once you already have the [TS]

  cylinder in your house and set up and [TS]

  everything then when you know Black [TS]

  Friday comes around and the switchable [TS]

  out let's go on sale for like twenty [TS]

  bucks you're like hey let me try one of [TS]

  those you know and then and then we'll [TS]

  ever need any try one really go that's [TS]

  that ends up like there's that one lamp [TS]

  it's the total other side of the room [TS]

  and i turn it off every night and I ever [TS]

  not have to walk over there and turn it [TS]

  off and what if I didn't have to walk [TS]

  over there I'd save like five seconds a [TS]

  night and that could add up and then [TS]

  next time they're on sale you get three [TS]

  or four more of them because you realize [TS]

  how useful they are and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you can say I'll turn off [TS]

  everything and all of your lights turn [TS]

  off and when you're going up to bed and [TS]

  you have a glass of water in one hand [TS]

  and maybe some laundry or a dog in the [TS]

  other hand and you don't have any hands [TS]

  to hit all the light switches before you [TS]

  go upstairs you can just say hey turn [TS]

  off everything and five things turn off [TS]

  at once and you could walk upstairs and [TS]

  it becomes pretty cool and so it's that [TS]

  how you get into this it's it is not [TS]

  that you can't walk over and hit a light [TS]

  switch but once you have one of these [TS]

  technologies for some other reason like [TS]

  music then it's and you know as all the [TS]

  like you know home automation things [TS]

  just start getting really cheaper you [TS]

  know like that you can you can go on [TS]

  going at these switch box for twenty [TS]

  bucks whatever or you can have other [TS]

  integration through web services through [TS]

  like if 210 various services like that [TS]

  and you know warm up your car or you can [TS]

  you Casey you have your garage door [TS]

  thing you can like open and close your [TS]

  garage door by voice like once you are [TS]

  in the system for some other compelling [TS]

  reason like music you will start having [TS]

  these other things trickle in and you'll [TS]

  be like wait a minute this is kind of [TS]

  awesome and none of its necessary like [TS]

  you could operate your house without [TS]

  these things but once you get into that [TS]

  once you have have a taste of this it's [TS]

  just really nice again it's not it's not [TS]

  a must-have we can all send post with [TS]

  send letters to the post office if we [TS]

  want to but once you have something [TS]

  nicer it is pretty great yeah it's funny [TS]

  you bring up but both you bring up the [TS]

  music thing because when i tried apple [TS]

  music during the free trial when it [TS]

  first came out the one thing I I deeply [TS]

  missed about Apple music was being able [TS]

  to say to siri you know play MuteMath or [TS]

  whatever the case may be and and just [TS]

  have it happen and that was super cool [TS]

  and it was almost enough to get me to [TS]

  pay for Apple music rather than Spotify [TS]

  which I prefer for reasons that are [TS]

  irrelevant but all the other things that [TS]

  I preferred about spot if I were enough [TS]

  to keep me away away from Apple music [TS]

  and and I guess that's the difference is [TS]

  with the garage door opener as an [TS]

  example I immediately understood why [TS]

  having an internet-connected garage door [TS]

  opener could immediately improve or [TS]

  improve may be a strong word but but I [TS]

  can't think of a better one improved my [TS]

  life where is the cylinders I don't [TS]

  doubt that they would make things better [TS]

  in all the ways you described but [TS]

  there's less of a visceral tangible need [TS]

  that I can see sitting here now and I'm [TS]

  sure the time will come that I will get [TS]

  one and i'm sure i'll be on this show [TS]

  saying by god what was i thinking of [TS]

  course I wanted this but sitting here [TS]

  now ignorant [TS]

  is less wow you know it does take it [TS]

  does take some time to actually figure [TS]

  out what do you think is going to be [TS]

  good for after you just play with it and [TS]

  find the limits of the thing and I think [TS]

  it really it really a situation like [TS]

  it's not it's not as if you have to like [TS]

  every day I'm going to do this thing and [TS]

  I'm going to use this thing to do the [TS]

  thing like getting a new like device [TS]

  into your life and incorporating into [TS]

  subtasks you have to do like for me that [TS]

  that's not how I experience of having [TS]

  this thing it's more like developing and [TS]

  awareness that this thing is there so [TS]

  that when the need comes up that you [TS]

  reflexively satisfy in other ways [TS]

  eventually you come to remember I don't [TS]

  have to do that I can just say this [TS]

  question into the air and get an answer [TS]

  even if it's like dividing two numbers [TS]

  or converting like teaspoons into cups [TS]

  or whatever like all those things are [TS]

  things I've done my whole life and I go [TS]

  I don't remember the convergence let me [TS]

  check or whatever and you can always [TS]

  like pick up your phone or ask someone [TS]

  in the house you think knows the [TS]

  conversion or you know all these other [TS]

  the ways you have to solve this problem [TS]

  eventually what the most important thing [TS]

  you need to have is it you know a deep [TS]

  grain instinctive awareness that I can [TS]

  say this thing into the air and get an [TS]

  answer right and that's the hardest part [TS]

  because you will find yourself pulling [TS]

  out your phone and typing into Google [TS]

  you know how many teaspoons in a cup and [TS]

  you'll do that and maybe do that without [TS]

  even realizing you could have just asked [TS]

  that question but eventually it sinks in [TS]

  it sinks in after some incidents of like [TS]

  arguing about the lyrics to the song [TS]

  over dinner and realizing we can settle [TS]

  this in 30 seconds I could just request [TS]

  that song by title it will immediately [TS]

  start playing or we can all listen to it [TS]

  together right or not remembering who [TS]

  you know what year someone was born or [TS]

  who what album this thing was on or what [TS]

  it like we could all take out her phones [TS]

  look it up we all know how to do that [TS]

  it's like you could do that or you could [TS]

  just like put a little trigger phrase [TS]

  that I'm not going to say in front of [TS]

  that same question you were just asking [TS]

  each other and instantly get some kind [TS]

  of answer and it can go too far where [TS]

  you know we have the recent rash of the [TS]

  Google what is it the Google answer [TS]

  thing where it tries to answer the [TS]

  question definitively the top of search [TS]

  results and it just throws on bogus [TS]

  stuff that has no foundation and truth [TS]

  right and all these devices again there [TS]

  are security concerns and priorities [TS]

  urns and I [TS]

  thing but it is a glimpse of the as yet [TS]

  unperfect it unrealized future and like [TS]

  all gadget tech geeks we all like to [TS]

  sort of see what that future is going to [TS]

  be like and try living it even if it is [TS]

  pretty rough at this point just because [TS]

  we think there's value in it and [TS]

  whatever form it takes in the future I [TS]

  think this type of renter face has [TS]

  proved it's worth that it has to be part [TS]

  of the various ways we interact with [TS]

  technology and networks right all the [TS]

  other ones have proved their worth and [TS]

  they're not going to go away and be [TS]

  completely replace with this but this I [TS]

  feel like has definitively proved it's [TS]

  worth it's just a question of how it [TS]

  fits in with all the other ways that we [TS]

  you know use computing devices and [TS]

  connected networks and stuff we're [TS]

  brought to you this week by Squarespace [TS]

  make your next move with a beautiful [TS]

  website from Squarespace enter offer [TS]

  code ATP a check out to get ten percent [TS]

  off Squarespace lets you build websites [TS]

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  full of functionality everything from a [TS]

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  or digital goods Squarespace can do all [TS]

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  get it is so nice to make websites with [TS]

  squarespace and it's so easy it is so [TS]

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  any of this stuff whether it's making a [TS]

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  squarespace com start a free trial site [TS]

  today with no credit card required see [TS]

  how far you get I say try for an hour [TS]

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  someone else try it for an hour see how [TS]

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  and I bet by the end of that hour you [TS]

  will love Squarespace so much you'll [TS]

  sign up and when you do sign up use [TS]

  offer code ATP to get ten percent off [TS]

  your first purchase thank you very much [TS]

  to Squarespace for supporting this show [TS]

  make your next move with squarespace so [TS]

  YouTube also almost a month ago now it [TS]

  has announced YouTube TV which means for [TS]

  thirty-five dollars a month subscribers [TS]

  get all four major networks ABC CBS fox [TS]

  and NBC and around 30 of the biggest [TS]

  cable channels and that price covers six [TS]

  accounts so each member of the house can [TS]

  have a personalized account that offers [TS]

  recommendations tuned to their tastes [TS]

  i'm reading mostly from the Verge's [TS]

  coverage of this it will be missing [TS]

  channels from Viacom including big names [TS]

  like Comedy Central and MTV it also [TS]

  won't have programming from Turner which [TS]

  means you won't get CNN TBS TNT AMC [TS]

  discovery and AME but this as someone [TS]

  who is not really looking to cut the [TS]

  cord this does sound pretty compelling [TS]

  to me I don't really have a good feel [TS]

  for what the landscape is for cord [TS]

  cutters because I'm not even really [TS]

  considering it at the moment but this [TS]

  sounds really good Marco I know you're [TS]

  not really that into broadcast TV but I [TS]

  believe you've cut the cord so are you [TS]

  interested in this at all yeah I mean I [TS]

  the last time I had cable was about 10 [TS]

  years ago and I don't say this to like [TS]

  to super bragging the hipster way [TS]

  possible just a fact I've you know since [TS]

  then I've gotten into the habit of just [TS]

  not having these TV channels I do get [TS]

  and buy TV content in other ways like I [TS]

  like through itunes and stuff although [TS]

  honestly I cannot leave Apple TV [TS]

  purchasing fast enough like as as Top [TS]

  Chef wrapped up one more season I still [TS]

  can't believe how bad buying TV series [TS]

  on apple TV is and then watching them [TS]

  and all the different things that don't [TS]

  work or that work poorly or that [TS]

  actually spoil the show like the [TS]

  auto-generated thumbnails of the Last [TS]

  Chance kitchen but you know I've kind of [TS]

  gotten into the world now of not having [TS]

  cable and so to to buy access to all [TS]

  these channels to me [TS]

  doesn't really sound that appealing [TS]

  because I I kind of don't need them [TS]

  anymore or I've trained myself not to [TS]

  have them anymore so the idea of buying [TS]

  access to all these things so I can like [TS]

  watch broadcast TV and sports not [TS]

  although with a bunch of asterisks and [TS]

  stuff like that it is advertising a a [TS]

  collection of services that I have gone [TS]

  without for 10 years that i have already [TS]

  like I I this is not something i really [TS]

  am that excited about for myself i do [TS]

  think it is it is a good idea for people [TS]

  who have been maintaining a cable [TS]

  subscription all this time for one of [TS]

  these things or for multiple these [TS]

  things like lots of people you know have [TS]

  like for example sports fans like most a [TS]

  lot of sports fan or people who just [TS]

  like to watch like live news or we like [TS]

  to watch some shows that are one more [TS]

  than one of these networks that just [TS]

  aren't available easily or affordably [TS]

  elsewhere online at least legally so for [TS]

  those people this is a great this is you [TS]

  know a good good idea it seems like a [TS]

  pretty reasonable price this at 35 bucks [TS]

  a month for all this stuff now i'm [TS]

  curious what what form does this take is [TS]

  it is it like just a TV stream and [TS]

  therefore we have to like skip [TS]

  commercials and crap or is it more like [TS]

  on-demand where you just pick what you [TS]

  want to watch and there's no commercials [TS]

  i'm not sure the way i read this was [TS]

  it's that it would basically exist [TS]

  within YouTube but I could have that [TS]

  dreadfully wrong I'm not entirely sure [TS]

  it's like they may they make mention of [TS]

  things like a DVR style of recording [TS]

  with unlimited storage space in Google's [TS]

  cloud and the ability to skip over ads [TS]

  so the kind of sounds like it's more [TS]

  like watching a broadcast and you just [TS]

  you know it's kind of like with a [TS]

  broadcast with DVR style controls but [TS]

  you'd still have to like fast-forward [TS]

  through the ads so it's kind of weird to [TS]

  see youtube as the company sort of I [TS]

  don't know if they're very first out of [TS]

  the gate but one of the first of the big [TS]

  names to do what everyone's been [TS]

  referring to was a this is the skinny [TS]

  bundle thing where it's a subset of the [TS]

  stuff that you can buy in cable with the [TS]

  idea that people who pay for cable [TS]

  nobody wants all those channels like [TS]

  everyone just wants a subset of it so if [TS]

  we could sell you a subset of it for a [TS]

  cheaper price then that would be a more [TS]

  desirable product for you and we could [TS]

  get you on down [TS]

  platform and stop you paying for cable [TS]

  or stop you bang forget stop you paying [TS]

  for television programming for cable [TS]

  because once again the whole cord cutter [TS]

  thing makes about as much sense as [TS]

  debating which parts of a game engine [TS]

  are done in software and hardware [TS]

  doesn't really mean anything when you [TS]

  look at the phrasing because oh I'm [TS]

  cutting the cord I'm going to get all my [TS]

  video content over a cable it comes to [TS]

  my house the delivers data but doesn't [TS]

  count because his internet and not cable [TS]

  television and all its you know totally [TS]

  different thing anyway Comcast would [TS]

  still sell you your internet access or [TS]

  verizon or whoever sell your internet [TS]

  access but you just like no thanks I [TS]

  don't want to pay for your cable [TS]

  television bundle I just want the [TS]

  Internet I'll pay you for that and then [TS]

  over the Internet I will get things like [TS]

  YouTube TV but anyway it's ironic that [TS]

  YouTube is doing it because as far as my [TS]

  children are concerned YouTube is [TS]

  television then they barely watch [TS]

  television anymore they watch youtube on [TS]

  their iOS devices because that's what [TS]

  they have if they didn't they were [TS]

  watching anything else television like I [TS]

  don't think they know what ABC CBS fox [TS]

  and NBC are I don't think they recognize [TS]

  those sequence of three letters if we [TS]

  put them in sequence and say what are [TS]

  these three letters they would not be [TS]

  able to identify they have no idea like [TS]

  they watch they watch enough television [TS]

  they sure I've seen enough television [TS]

  shows in their life but their entire [TS]

  enterprise of television a is through my [TS]

  tivo so there is no again trying to [TS]

  trying to explain to them or young [TS]

  children the concept of live television [TS]

  is extremely difficult the mud that the [TS]

  task of modern parenting right to [TS]

  explain to your eggs your toddler what [TS]

  live television is and why you can't [TS]

  like fast-forward or pause or anything [TS]

  like that like no this is happening now [TS]

  this is live like or we can't watch this [TS]

  because it hasn't aired yet like it's [TS]

  going to come on at seven it's like what [TS]

  are you even saying that I don't [TS]

  understand like I don't understand these [TS]

  words at your like and that they've I [TS]

  know dad let me explain it to you you [TS]

  just go like this and you tap over here [TS]

  and but just why isn't it working i [TS]

  think it's broken like no it hasn't [TS]

  hasn't aired yet it's difficult thing to [TS]

  explain right so youtube it seems has [TS]

  the future locked up and yet they are [TS]

  the ones out of the gate to say we're [TS]

  going to try to get the old by giving [TS]

  them something that makes them feel more [TS]

  comfortable and you pay us thirty-five [TS]

  dollars a month [TS]

  we will resell you this content with a [TS]

  nice kind of interface that makes it [TS]

  look like you have a tivo but you don't [TS]

  and you know some some fashion of on [TS]

  demand type stuff and also with the you [TS]

  know ad-skipping and so on and so forth [TS]

  but like all these deals like the reason [TS]

  it has always been said that Apple [TS]

  hasn't had this deal as it has it had a [TS]

  deal like this despite them pursuing it [TS]

  for many years now is they could never [TS]

  they can never get no presumably [TS]

  according to Apple satisfaction an [TS]

  arrangement of content in price that [TS]

  they did Apple like that Apple said yes [TS]

  that's what we want to go to market with [TS]

  so they've come to market with nothing [TS]

  and all these things if you look at them [TS]

  it's like oh well you got all this stuff [TS]

  we don't have all that stuff is that is [TS]

  this the right price and the combination [TS]

  of content like if you got this and [TS]

  you'll be like I'm going to replace [TS]

  cable and then you just realize like [TS]

  that I'm trying to think of a show it's [TS]

  on AMC like madmen used to be what son [TS]

  AMC now the Americans is the Americans [TS]

  FX anyway if if you get this and you're [TS]

  like this will be just like cable we can [TS]

  just pick the channels we want but you [TS]

  realize you can't get some of these [TS]

  things at any price Oh The Walking Dead [TS]

  is an AMC better call Saul you realize [TS]

  you can't get them at any price that [TS]

  could be a deal breaker if you know it's [TS]

  like well I guess we'll just stick with [TS]

  cable because cable despite the fact [TS]

  that cable is making you pay like you [TS]

  know three dollars a month for ESPN that [TS]

  you never watch it over the hell the [TS]

  number is these days you have access to [TS]

  everything essentially those cables and [TS]

  mature industry and everything is resold [TS]

  through cable subscriptions and if [TS]

  you're willing to pay enough money you [TS]

  can get everything to get a skinny [TS]

  bundle I okay well I'll skinny bundle [TS]

  for this and then I will just pay on [TS]

  itunes for the walking dead the day [TS]

  after it comes out or I'll watch Game of [TS]

  Thrones on HBO Go or now and hope that [TS]

  doesn't get overwhelmed by people and [TS]

  like that's the other thing with these [TS]

  skinny bundles you can be really sad if [TS]

  Game of Thrones premiers and you can't [TS]

  watch it because of some networking [TS]

  thing whereas if you had cable it would [TS]

  have quote-unquote just worked right [TS]

  because it's broadcast versus you know [TS]

  database television which has all the [TS]

  problems of any you know database [TS]

  solution so I don't know if they're [TS]

  striking the right balance and honestly [TS]

  I think YouTube shouldn't care that much [TS]

  of the striking the right balance [TS]

  because they sure as heck seem to be the [TS]

  future of television as far as any of my [TS]

  children are concerned and honestly I'm [TS]

  watching more YouTube then [TS]

  used to like this thing here you know [TS]

  like as in subscribing to channels and [TS]

  looking for content to come on them so [TS]

  they I think this is a good move for you [TS]

  to bits like we are already at the [TS]

  forefront of this new thing and you know [TS]

  we can scrape up some of those old [TS]

  things and they're not so picky about oh [TS]

  we can't we can't go to market with a [TS]

  skinny bundle because not enough people [TS]

  will buy it because it doesn't have CNN [TS]

  and TBS like or a knee and AMC or [TS]

  whatever like they're just like whatever [TS]

  we'll go for it we'll see how it goes if [TS]

  it doesn't whatever we're the future [TS]

  will be fine whereas Apple is still [TS]

  wedding for this beautiful perfect deal [TS]

  that has extremely low prices and the [TS]

  right amount of control for Apple and [TS]

  can provide the right experience and so [TS]

  they just have nothing they just have [TS]

  nothing to offer that this TV app that [TS]

  you know looks like it's a ghost town [TS]

  and you can kind of see a glimmer of [TS]

  what it was supposed to be but what it [TS]

  is now is nothing compared to YouTube [TS]

  nothing compared to you tube TV so [TS]

  apples is not doing well here and [TS]

  Netflix and Amazon and YouTube [TS]

  definitely seem to be the future of [TS]

  video content for an entire generation [TS]

  of people whether they be you know young [TS]

  children or Millennials or whatever who [TS]

  just accept that you know the content [TS]

  they want probably is an on TV unless [TS]

  it's you know live news or sports stuff [TS]

  like that and even that like those will [TS]

  be the last ones to come over but the [TS]

  future looks dim for the old model of [TS]

  television in all aspects and these [TS]

  skinny bundles entirely seem like a [TS]

  transitional thing to get people over [TS]

  the hump to the new system and the more [TS]

  of them that are out there the more [TS]

  people that pull over and like Marco [TS]

  eventually like once you do it and [TS]

  realize the world doesn't come to an end [TS]

  and you just get used to that kind of [TS]

  lifestyle and accept whatever the [TS]

  limitations may be during the [TS]

  transitional period it's hard to go back [TS]

  like you rarely hear about people who [TS]

  cut the cord try it for a year and then [TS]

  immediately go back I mean maybe they do [TS]

  if there's a disagreement in the house [TS]

  about the how important local live [TS]

  sports are and and a misprediction of [TS]

  what a blackout would really mean to [TS]

  your life but beyond that I feel like [TS]

  the people who unsubscribe from cable [TS]

  television especially in tech nerd [TS]

  circles they find alternate arrangements [TS]

  and are happy with it eventually like [TS]

  that it that it is a successful [TS]

  transition it's kind of like the people [TS]

  by the sill [TS]

  there's you're not quite sure what [TS]

  they're gonna work out but you get it [TS]

  and in the end it's better than you [TS]

  thought it would be one thing that that [TS]

  is somewhat appealing to me about these [TS]

  new digital based services though is [TS]

  that there's no equipment and that you [TS]

  could probably pretty easily start and [TS]

  stop your service in the past like if [TS]

  there was like a big event of some kind [TS]

  like like watching you know a [TS]

  presidential election return or you know [TS]

  a really important news event or a [TS]

  really important TV show that I was [TS]

  super into it I couldn't get any other [TS]

  way like it would be kind of a bummer to [TS]

  not have cable for brief periods in my [TS]

  life and I would occasionally think [TS]

  maybe we should just get it again and [TS]

  just never use it and but like the idea [TS]

  of having to like call up a local cable [TS]

  company or whatever and have them you [TS]

  know schedule an appointment and have [TS]

  them come to the house during this [TS]

  eight-hour window that usually becomes [TS]

  more than that and they come at the very [TS]

  end of it except for that one time where [TS]

  they came early so you can't really plan [TS]

  for it and then they install this giant [TS]

  box that may or may not work if you want [TS]

  any kind of DVR functionality you need [TS]

  to deal with either another giant box [TS]

  like the Syracuse a method or you just [TS]

  deal with their crappy giant box but [TS]

  their d crappy TV are you learn all the [TS]

  controls all over again you get another [TS]

  remote hanging on the house this giant [TS]

  box and this you know all this overhead [TS]

  of starting and then later stopping that [TS]

  service like you want to stop that [TS]

  serves you gotta call them on the phone [TS]

  which I will do quite a lot to avoid [TS]

  upon the phone talk to some customer [TS]

  service rep convince this in the case of [TS]

  some of these morally bankrupt companies [TS]

  like Comcast convince them to please for [TS]

  the love of God let you cancel your [TS]

  service which you may or may not succeed [TS]

  at that Mayor that may or may not take a [TS]

  very long time to convince them then [TS]

  have that whole process in Reverse [TS]

  scheduling dealing with the equipment [TS]

  whether you like I like drop it off [TS]

  somewhere or have them come pick it up [TS]

  and disconnect the wire like it's a big [TS]

  pain in the butt and then they probably [TS]

  have restrictions on like how often you [TS]

  can sign up it or disconnect your [TS]

  service again or like you know and then [TS]

  there's all this basically BS involved [TS]

  in starting and stopping cable TV [TS]

  service [TS]

  service [TS]

  press so to have these internet based [TS]

  ones where it's probably just like you [TS]

  know clicking a few buttons and entering [TS]

  credit card into the YouTube app and [TS]

  then when you want to stop it you you [TS]

  know go go through some screens and [TS]

  there's probably an all-digital way to [TS]

  do it where you probably want to talk to [TS]

  anybody on the phone that is actually [TS]

  probably a really good thing for the [TS]

  cable industry it's not good in the [TS]

  sense that it becomes easier to stop [TS]

  your service but I think it is good in [TS]

  that for people like me who don't have [TS]

  it most of the time but occasionally [TS]

  have some reason why we might want it I [TS]

  think you're more likely to win people [TS]

  like us over because the barrier to [TS]

  entry is now lower than it was before so [TS]

  that i think is a big new good feature [TS]

  of this however that being said we know [TS]

  what john said about the channel [TS]

  availability is a big deal it includes [TS]

  like you know the big broncos networks [TS]

  but for 35 bucks a month that's like a [TS]

  basic cable plan and it does not include [TS]

  Comedy Central MTV CNN TBS TNT AMC any [TS]

  Discovery it's like this huge list of [TS]

  channels that come in pretty much every [TS]

  standard cable bundle in the US for like [TS]

  20 years and they don't come with this [TS]

  and that kind of thing like in the [TS]

  regular cable market like weather when [TS]

  you're like you know choosing between [TS]

  like in one of the various satellite [TS]

  companies like like directv or dish [TS]

  whatever if you have like if you choose [TS]

  between like that or like Comcast your [TS]

  files or whatever your local cable thing [TS]

  is oftentimes like one of these networks [TS]

  will be missing from one of these [TS]

  services and that'll be enough to get [TS]

  people to choose the other one so to [TS]

  have this many things missing that's [TS]

  really a pretty big problem I think so [TS]

  this specific service at the specific [TS]

  time with this specific set of deals [TS]

  that they made having such limited [TS]

  channel options that's gonna really hurt [TS]

  them I think but the idea of this kind [TS]

  of bundle i think is strong if anybody [TS]

  can get all the deals in place or even [TS]

  just some of the deals so let's just get [TS]

  more than what youtube got we were [TS]

  sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

  investing made better to learn more [TS]

  visit betterment calm / ATP [TS]

  betterment is the world's largest [TS]

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  conditions visit betterment calm / ATP [TS]

  betterment investing made better now we [TS]

  enter the hardware portion of the [TS]

  program so I don't know which one of you [TS]

  wants to kick this off but Intel is [TS]

  going 14 nanometers one more time [TS]

  apparently remember when they have the [TS]

  tick-tock strategy and we talked about [TS]

  that then became tick-tock thud or [TS]

  whatever they change it to this [TS]

  tick-tock when I figure what they think [TS]

  like it's not tick tock anymore it's [TS]

  like I gotta funded that Gao aiming [TS]

  process architecture optimization right [TS]

  and it was because basically like oh we [TS]

  used to you know we do we do a process [TS]

  rank than we do an architecture and then [TS]

  we do a process drink they do no [TS]

  architecture and it was kind of on a [TS]

  yearly basis be the way that was their [TS]

  cadence right and they're like oh we [TS]

  can't we can't sustain that anymore [TS]

  because every time we try to do a new [TS]

  process is taking longer and longer [TS]

  asotin 14-nanometer 210 or whatever the [TS]

  next one is it's taking longer than we [TS]

  thought so we're going to do a process [TS]

  shrink or your architecture and then [TS]

  we're going to optimize that [TS]

  architecture so it basically give us [TS]

  another year to get to the shrink the [TS]

  new strategy is process architecture [TS]

  optimize and you know what let's [TS]

  optimize again because we don't have how [TS]

  we don't have the new process size ready [TS]

  to go [TS]

  and it's kind of comical to see them [TS]

  change their tick-tock strategy to a [TS]

  three-step strategy to a four-step [TS]

  strategy so it's like a like a little [TS]

  kid stalling on getting their assignment [TS]

  done it's like well my new strategy is [TS]

  let's wait another year and you try to [TS]

  look and see what like art so you know k [TS]

  be like is not that big of a deal of an [TS]

  enhancement because we've just got some [TS]

  past things like some some video drm [TS]

  stuff in there and some minor tweaks but [TS]

  it's not you know like it is technically [TS]

  an optimization of a pre-existing thing [TS]

  but and maybe the next one they will [TS]

  optimize more but we're kind of used to [TS]

  even even in this you know age of the [TS]

  the dwindling returns on Morris law used [TS]

  to the idea that we will get a bigger [TS]

  jump Oh in CPU capabilities and with [TS]

  with the process rink and if that [TS]

  process rink just never seems to come [TS]

  it's like well what can we really do [TS]

  like we did a really good job as [TS]

  architecture to begin with this process [TS]

  sighs the biggest bang for the buck [TS]

  historically has been you know how can [TS]

  we decrease power and get more [TS]

  transistors to do stuff with and you [TS]

  know like make different choices the [TS]

  shrink gives you that Headroom could do [TS]

  it provided you can figure out how to [TS]

  make it work in lieu of a shrink you are [TS]

  left with the same power budget and the [TS]

  same number of transistors and just [TS]

  making different trade-offs basically or [TS]

  just being a little bit smarter about a [TS]

  few components and you can make things [TS]

  better that way but you can't make them [TS]

  better in the knots of their giant leaps [TS]

  but you know to to get a double-digit [TS]

  percent increase in almost anything is a [TS]

  very big effort within a given process [TS]

  size especially in an architecture is [TS]

  already pretty well optimized right so [TS]

  this I'd like I say this is [TS]

  disappointing but it is further evidence [TS]

  of the slowing rate of advancement at [TS]

  the at the edges of hardware down on [TS]

  cutting-edge hardware like what is the [TS]

  best process size you can get a you know [TS]

  in a processor in a sophisticated [TS]

  processor for any amount of money and [TS]

  for another year in a row it's going to [TS]

  be 40 nanometers I mean really like [TS]

  these days like an Intel delay is not [TS]

  news like wintel delays the next big [TS]

  thing for a year [TS]

  used to be like shake the industry these [TS]

  days it's kind of more surprising when [TS]

  they don't and I think a pretty sure [TS]

  they're still ahead of most other people [TS]

  because other people are like yeah we're [TS]

  excited we have a 14 nanometer process [TS]

  like this is Intel's going to be on its [TS]

  third year 40 nanometer it's like well [TS]

  welcome to the club right and I guess [TS]

  that lead only counts if they get to the [TS]

  next size before everyone else too but [TS]

  I'm I'm guessing they will i'm guessing [TS]

  this is not like Intel in competence it [TS]

  is merely that it is getting much much [TS]

  harder as the sizes gets much smaller as [TS]

  we discussed in past shows Moore's law [TS]

  cannot continue forever as far as our [TS]

  understanding of the physical world is [TS]

  aware because you cannot subdivide [TS]

  matter into ever-smaller pieces at a [TS]

  certain point you reach a size where you [TS]

  can't break it into any smaller sizes [TS]

  without super high-energy physics and [TS]

  stuff so inevitably eventually [TS]

  everyone's favorite infinite time line [TS]

  argument Moore's law cannot continue [TS]

  right because if you keep having a size [TS]

  of things and you're down to like quarks [TS]

  and stuff like no even getting down just [TS]

  the size of individual atoms the whole [TS]

  functioning of the way we manufacture [TS]

  transistor stops working and we're [TS]

  already getting into all sorts of thing [TS]

  problems the feature sizes we're doing [TS]

  so it will end it's just a question of [TS]

  what does the slope look like as we [TS]

  slide down into the doomsday scenario of [TS]

  CPUs that never get any better and wait [TS]

  for quantum computing to save us all [TS]

  with entirely new paradigm but either [TS]

  way I'm this is not the type of story [TS]

  that i want to read i guess another old [TS]

  man star i'll be able to tell is like [TS]

  when i was a kid computers would get [TS]

  massively faster every year and it was [TS]

  amazing i remember those days anymore do [TS]

  you want doom on a pentium it was like [TS]

  can any computer be this fast how is it [TS]

  possible last year this game was barely [TS]

  usable and now it goes faster than my [TS]

  eyeballs and that would happen every [TS]

  year it's true all right tell me about a [TS]

  AMD risin so i wish i had more time to [TS]

  read up on this but we haven't really [TS]

  talked much about AMD on the show [TS]

  occasionally we mentioned them but like [TS]

  we you know in the context of intel [TS]

  alternatives but we've been doing even [TS]

  less than that it's mostly because [TS]

  despite doing very well in the [TS]

  the glory part of pc CPUs back in the [TS]

  day they PF londes remember those when [TS]

  oh yeah when the AMD was actually giving [TS]

  it until run for their money and was you [TS]

  know taking a lot of the the crowns in [TS]

  those this type of sort of speeds and [TS]

  feed the measurements contest that were [TS]

  so popular back in the back in the 90s [TS]

  what is the best you know cpu for gaming [TS]

  or for whatever and look at these [TS]

  benchmarks in the highest then someone [TS]

  and so forth an empty was doing really [TS]

  well and they were an important player [TS]

  and it was great to see the competition [TS]

  and it forced intel i think to get off [TS]

  of the net burst architecture in the [TS]

  pentium 4 and come up with the core [TS]

  series which was awesome and then it was [TS]

  like Intel took the lead back and am and [TS]

  wiped the md off the face of the earth [TS]

  they came out with the bulldozer [TS]

  architecture that was not particularly [TS]

  successful and it was a bad choice and [TS]

  they've always had sort of you know [TS]

  financial problems as compared to the [TS]

  behemoth it is intel and you know have [TS]

  never been you know a competitive with [TS]

  Intel's fabbing abilities and so we [TS]

  haven't heard anything about them for a [TS]

  long time and this seems like they're [TS]

  come back like hey we're AMD we still [TS]

  know how to make good CPUs and so they [TS]

  have a line of CPUs that are competitive [TS]

  like they're not they're not the best in [TS]

  the world they're not like oh these are [TS]

  10 times better than everything intel [TS]

  has but it's a comeback story and people [TS]

  like a comeback story this this company [TS]

  that was not didn't seem to be even be [TS]

  in the race like that people suggesting [TS]

  apples you just use AMD processors that [TS]

  suggestion stopped many years ago and [TS]

  started to become apple should get AMD [TS]

  to make a new processor that's better [TS]

  than all their crappy ones right right [TS]

  our apple should work with AMD or apple [TS]

  should make its own xat but all but [TS]

  never like Noah suggesting like you know [TS]

  what Mac laptops would be better if they [TS]

  took out the Intel CPUs and use AMD ones [TS]

  instead and so they have the series of [TS]

  CPUs which are significant mostly [TS]

  because I have to come back in there [TS]

  they're actually competitive good and be [TS]

  in the vote for the most part they're [TS]

  cheaper than the Intel alternatives I [TS]

  don't think any I looked at them briefly [TS]

  to see is there anything I their be [TS]

  great for a Mac blow no they're not [TS]

  Mac Pro caliber things but they do have [TS]

  a lot of course for a low price with a [TS]

  reasonable power envelope and I don't [TS]

  think this means Apple will look at them [TS]

  any more than they did in the past [TS]

  because of ancillary issues and because [TS]

  who knows what Intel's road map looks [TS]

  like versus AMD's Road Mac but I'm [TS]

  excited to see md back in the mix [TS]

  because despite the fact that Intel [TS]

  seems to be getting his butt kicked all [TS]

  over the map by ARM processors and [TS]

  mobile and everything having to do with [TS]

  that because all of Intel's mobile [TS]

  efforts have not really gone anywhere [TS]

  and they're not particularly competitive [TS]

  and they're just lucky to get like a [TS]

  radio chip that in Apple's iPhones at [TS]

  this point and every day they must [TS]

  forget who did this may be the CEO it [TS]

  already left regret the sale of their [TS]

  arm holdings when they have the X scale [TS]

  processor they arm things they'll get [TS]

  rid of that because they wanted to do [TS]

  everything x 86 anyway I like seeing a [TS]

  competitor jennifer intel on the high [TS]

  end as well because competition is good [TS]

  and I hope this Spurs Intel to redouble [TS]

  its efforts to stay ahead of the game [TS]

  and to find ways to get more performance [TS]

  and to find ways to get to the next [TS]

  process size in to widen that gap again [TS]

  between them and AMD not that I'm saying [TS]

  I empties only purpose in life is to [TS]

  make Intel stuff better but for the [TS]

  foreseeable future I don't see Apple [TS]

  switching to AMD unless they're asking [TS]

  them to make their very own custom chips [TS]

  and so for my purposes AMD exists to [TS]

  give PC hobbyists a cool alternative to [TS]

  build pcs with end to make the processes [TS]

  that are going to be in my max hopefully [TS]

  better cool sounds about right did you [TS]

  make you want to build a pc no no what [TS]

  makes you want to build a pc is Zeon's [TS]

  like if i ever like you know a lot of [TS]

  people build pcs and like a lot of the [TS]

  hackintosh guides and stuff out there [TS]

  and price comparisons are all about this [TS]

  class of hardware there about like you [TS]

  know imac class cpus you know that the [TS]

  intel like you know 4000 series with k [TS]

  on the end like those are really high [TS]

  powered cpus for desktops they're really [TS]

  nice but Apple already makes those they [TS]

  already you know ship computers with [TS]

  those and keep them reasonably up to [TS]

  date most [TS]

  the time they're called IMAX and the [TS]

  imac 5k is a wonderful computer I'm [TS]

  talking to you on it right now with the [TS]

  exception of my image retention issues [TS]

  on the display which everyone says [TS]

  they're actually not solved in the most [TS]

  recent ones with the exception of that [TS]

  it's it's been a wonderful computer for [TS]

  me and I expect you to serve me still [TS]

  for a little for a while until something [TS]

  faster comes out which barely really [TS]

  hasn't happened the problem is I want [TS]

  something faster I want more than four [TS]

  cores I want you know higher performance [TS]

  than what the consumer line can offer me [TS]

  so I've only ever been tempted to to [TS]

  build a hackintosh not to give myself a [TS]

  cheaper iMac which I understand why [TS]

  people do that you know that's that [TS]

  makes sense but to to give me a computer [TS]

  it's you me basically a Mac that Apple [TS]

  does not even sell and that is you know [TS]

  a modern mac pro well you can get it you [TS]

  can eight core risin for three hundred [TS]

  twenty nine dollars that ok wait cheaper [TS]

  than the equivalent eight core intel [TS]

  chip that is true you know I don't know [TS]

  I had to I guess I'd take a look at if I [TS]

  was to build a hackintosh I was looking [TS]

  like for apples for apples purposes like [TS]

  for an imac because again I don't think [TS]

  any of these are suitable for as far as [TS]

  I'm aware for a laptop chips or whatever [TS]

  a nail still has that wrapped up but for [TS]

  kind of like the debt what we used to [TS]

  call desktop-class cpus where it's not [TS]

  the Zeon's but it's not in the power [TS]

  envelope but like the thing you could [TS]

  stick in a night because it's bacon has [TS]

  lots of fans and what we currently have [TS]

  in the imac i think you could get either [TS]

  a better processor in the same envelope [TS]

  or an equally good processor for [TS]

  hundreds less dollars going with AMD [TS]

  again not that i think apple will do [TS]

  this because of ancillary reasons and [TS]

  other chipsets and thunder bolton and [TS]

  just general relationships with them but [TS]

  it shows me that there's once again [TS]

  competition in the market leaves before [TS]

  gnome was like oh you shouldn't be using [TS]

  that if we were saying we shouldn't use [TS]

  this particular intel cpu and imac we [TS]

  were saying you should use some other [TS]

  Intel CPU instead we weren't saying you [TS]

  should use something or AMD or something [TS]

  like that and now now you can say that [TS]

  this products on the market to say Apple [TS]

  here is an alternative for your imax i [TS]

  know you're probably not going to do it [TS]

  but what it does show is that intel [TS]

  perhaps it's not serving your needs as [TS]

  well as they could because [TS]

  it is technically and financially [TS]

  possible to make a chip that would make [TS]

  Marco happier so why don't you do that [TS]

  yeah I mean like most of my problems [TS]

  don't lie with the processor companies [TS]

  you know like their Intel's good enough [TS]

  for me my problem lies in apples and [TS]

  ability to ship hardware uh so does that [TS]

  cover RZ on gold then or now no the Zeon [TS]

  gold is the kids are supposed to use but [TS]

  they won't ok I have not read up on the [TS]

  Z and gold other than the part that I [TS]

  pasted into the show notes its sky like [TS]

  ep it's the sky like EP Zeon's which is [TS]

  the the line of chips that would be most [TS]

  appropriate to put in a new mac pro but [TS]

  they're probably not going to do that so [TS]

  therefore I have nothing to I haven't [TS]

  even looked about too far into these [TS]

  because in the past I've listened to [TS]

  what sky like II was going to have and [TS]

  it it is truly awesome it's wonderful [TS]

  but it's just I don't know to me it's [TS]

  its kind of even it's almost sad or [TS]

  painful to even read about this [TS]

  processor because I know that to know [TS]

  this is out there but that you can live [TS]

  in it exactly like it I just whatever [TS]

  has been clogging up Apple I hope it [TS]

  gets out and they start shipping [TS]

  hardware again because something's wrong [TS]

  like something is deeply wrong at that [TS]

  company where where is the where it [TS]

  where is all the effort going that's [TS]

  what I want to know because it's sure [TS]

  not going into the mac it's sure not [TS]

  going into the apple TV its aren't going [TS]

  into the ipad some of it but not much of [TS]

  it is going to the watch like where is [TS]

  it going some of its gonna be the phone [TS]

  obviously but is the entire company only [TS]

  capable of keeping the phone up to date [TS]

  at a reasonable pace which even that i [TS]

  got like a ton of its going into the [TS]

  phone sure huge line of its going [TS]

  they're a big company where the hell is [TS]

  everything else yeah that's what i want [TS]

  to know and until until we get software [TS]

  some things offer even that like that's [TS]

  easily a separate able thing like where [TS]

  is the entire company going something's [TS]

  wrong that's that's all i can say is [TS]

  something is deeply wrong and need to [TS]

  change but that's i know that's not very [TS]

  helpful but when you have when you have [TS]

  a UI 2016 in the product line [TS]

  something's really really wrong 2017 has [TS]

  a lot of checks to cash and we'll see if [TS]

  they do i hope they do but we haven't [TS]

  heard a lot of promising info so far to [TS]

  suggest that they will accept Tim Cook's [TS]

  vague promises did you see that thing i [TS]

  retweeted earlier today of someone was [TS]

  doing Swift compilation benchmarks like [TS]

  how long does it take deep well yeah i [TS]

  was linkedin yeah and and the two core [TS]

  mac mini beat the highest-end trashcan [TS]

  mac pro yeah me great that's because of [TS]

  like you know problems in the swift [TS]

  compiler I think it's not like that is [TS]

  not because the mac minis faster I know [TS]

  but it like here's what this shows it [TS]

  doesn't show the quality of the hardware [TS]

  it shows support for the hardware like [TS]

  obviously there is something not [TS]

  allowing the compiler to take advantage [TS]

  of this hardware in the same way that [TS]

  very often they were like weird retina [TS]

  issues with the mac pro because it is [TS]

  such a rare machine and so if we will [TS]

  have them that OS support for it and [TS]

  like just in general the software [TS]

  whether it's the Oso via applications [TS]

  have no expectation of ever running out [TS]

  of trash can because there's so few of [TS]

  them so it's not not only is it not [TS]

  optimized for it but doesn't even take [TS]

  advantage of the hardware that's there [TS]

  it's like the worst case scenario of [TS]

  like you know you get weird pc hardware [TS]

  but windows doesn't support it well only [TS]

  this is apple and this is you know they [TS]

  have a limited line of hardware and like [TS]

  that's all I've ever heard from Mac [TS]

  crash a Mac Pro users is that they feel [TS]

  left out of the rest of the apple [TS]

  ecosystem because all of these software [TS]

  updates and application updates and OS [TS]

  updates pretend that they don't exist so [TS]

  any weird problems they have don't go [TS]

  away don't get fixed and new software [TS]

  doesn't take advantage of all the course [TS]

  that they have and so on and so forth it [TS]

  which is which is sad because that's [TS]

  exactly how it's supposed to be you put [TS]

  out this exotic piece of hardware and [TS]

  don't worry about it because you make [TS]

  the os/2 and all and a bunch of the [TS]

  applications as well you can make sure [TS]

  that it is leverage and that you take [TS]

  advantage of it and when that doesn't [TS]

  happen you just have an exotic piece of [TS]

  hardware that gets worse over time and [TS]

  you know eventually got mac minis [TS]

  beating you in a compilation [TS]

  benchmarking like why no I get that I [TS]

  really think that's like you know Xcode [TS]

  and the compiler having bad settings but [TS]

  you know the point you're a larger point [TS]

  about you know maintenance and support [TS]

  does stand I mean [TS]

  people say like look at Apple they have [TS]

  all the money in the world why can't [TS]

  they do X well you know it wasn't that [TS]

  long ago that Microsoft's all the money [TS]

  in the world and they had like two [TS]

  decades where they did almost nothing [TS]

  Microsoft had a very very long span [TS]

  where they could not produce anything [TS]

  even good let alone great and it you [TS]

  know it's arguable whether they've come [TS]

  out that yet but but you know they [TS]

  they're they're trying they're doing a [TS]

  lot better now they're doing a lot [TS]

  better than they were like it in like [TS]

  the like the windows vista era like [TS]

  first leading up to Vista and then Vista [TS]

  itself and you know at like Microsoft [TS]

  had all the money in the world but [TS]

  simply could not manage to ship great [TS]

  things because of other problems because [TS]

  of mismanagement because of internal [TS]

  problems whatever the case was app or [TS]

  Microsoft had just no ability to apply [TS]

  their money into creating good products [TS]

  reliably and I think we are at that [TS]

  point now with Apple it is very very [TS]

  hard to to look at the output of Apple [TS]

  over the last couple of years and say [TS]

  otherwise they're a company that can [TS]

  produce good things sometimes but [TS]

  increasingly that's the exception not [TS]

  the norm and that's really really [TS]

  worrisome to me one of the way that [TS]

  Microsoft got out of it I got out of [TS]

  their funk aside from changing [TS]

  management stuff was they tried a lot of [TS]

  different things most of which failed [TS]

  but they they tried a lot of them and I [TS]

  think you know if i look at like what [TS]

  was what was the success story that was [TS]

  able to convince microsoft itself and [TS]

  the outside world that Microsoft could [TS]

  conceivably do good things again I feel [TS]

  like it was the Xbox because that was a [TS]

  weird marketing why the hell pancras off [TS]

  making a game console right and it you [TS]

  know it struggled and they had to learn [TS]

  this new business in the same way that [TS]

  Apple kind of had to learn the new [TS]

  business of cell phones and they didn't [TS]

  it you know it is not comparable to the [TS]

  iphone obviously in terms of the scope [TS]

  of its success and how important it was [TS]

  to you know because it was just another [TS]

  game console for the most part i'll vote [TS]

  had its own innovations but it of all [TS]

  the things they did they tried so many [TS]

  things so many different mobile phone [TS]

  strategies so many different tablet and [TS]

  pen computing like they were so close to [TS]

  so many innovations but because they [TS]

  kept trying all these different things [TS]

  I didn't remember how things I did that [TS]

  that sidekick company that they bought [TS]

  with little tourney people think they [TS]

  sold like yeah but Xbox of all things [TS]

  like unquestionably was a success in its [TS]

  market in a very difficult market that [TS]

  has killed many a company who have tried [TS]

  to enter it and be successful and so it [TS]

  I I think Apple probably continues to [TS]

  need to needs to continue to do what it [TS]

  seems to have been doing and like be [TS]

  willing to try like the watch is a good [TS]

  example try a watch maybe it's going to [TS]

  be awesome maybe one or whatever but but [TS]

  do it like we don't need to be I don't [TS]

  think we need to be came and set up I [TS]

  can still do great things because you [TS]

  know the Apple watch is successful as it [TS]

  may or may not be it's you know I think [TS]

  it's a big step up for the the [TS]

  SmartWatch market and in many ways has [TS]

  come to not redefine that market but [TS]

  sort of pin down what people expect from [TS]

  smartwatches to the point where smart [TS]

  watches are very much now aping some of [TS]

  the looks and features of apples things [TS]

  if only to to capitalize on their you [TS]

  know their marketing cachet but [TS]

  self-driving cars all sorts of things [TS]

  that we say why is Apple even doing that [TS]

  all you need is one or two of them tit [TS]

  for it to be worthwhile thus far none of [TS]

  them have been big successes but if [TS]

  Apple was in a Microsoft type situation [TS]

  we would all be looking at the watch or [TS]

  the air pots they see Apple can make [TS]

  great things again Apple's not down that [TS]

  low when we see the air pause for like [TS]

  yes that's what Apple should be doing [TS]

  and that's what we expected you write [TS]

  verses we're super surprised that you've [TS]

  made a successful good product we're not [TS]

  surprised with what we expect we still [TS]

  expect we still have high expectations [TS]

  of Apple we still have we still hold [TS]

  them to high standards and I think [TS]

  that's good but i also like that's why i [TS]

  don't want to be too down on all the [TS]

  weird stuff Apple is doing it I know [TS]

  it's easy to do that you know the [TS]

  trade-offs like oh you should just be [TS]

  making mex better because that's what I [TS]

  like or whatever but as you point out [TS]

  Marco for all we know there's entirely [TS]

  separate things and it's not like they [TS]

  lack the money so as long as it's not [TS]

  literally the people who were going to [TS]

  make the mac pro who are now making [TS]

  self-driving car software like go for it [TS]

  well more power to you [TS]

  eventually we made to be the point where [TS]

  we're looking for apples Xbox and maybe [TS]

  just maybe apples just make a gaming [TS]

  console but they're really terrible [TS]

  gaming so don't do that Oh once i bind [TS]

  the Tendo and the show finally comes to [TS]

  an end because the apocalypse that will [TS]

  happen that comes to pass yeah i i'm not [TS]

  i'm not as down on apple as you are [TS]

  marco i continue to believe that they [TS]

  can come out of it i think microsoft is [TS]

  a great example that no matter how low [TS]

  you go there's always something great [TS]

  you and I don't hold up a sure as an [TS]

  example of that too and a lot of the dev [TS]

  tools stuff that Microsoft has been [TS]

  doing they had a lot of smart people [TS]

  that had a lot of great tech is just a [TS]

  matter of finding a way to channel that [TS]

  into productive in a productive way [TS]

  while also continuing to milk the cash [TS]

  cow that is their terrible enterprise [TS]

  software now might my main concern here [TS]

  is that you know as the 2016 was a [TS]

  really bad year for Apple like from the [TS]

  public point of view and Tim can say [TS]

  stuff like oh we have stuff coming don't [TS]

  worry just because you don't see it [TS]

  doesn't I'm working on it but that [TS]

  doesn't that doesn't mean anything and [TS]

  it just seems like there's these areas [TS]

  of apple product development that have [TS]

  stalled or they're taking way too long [TS]

  and there seems to be not only no end in [TS]

  sight but no changes that would suggest [TS]

  that there would be you know a change of [TS]

  policy or change of results coming and [TS]

  so what i want is by the end of 2017 i [TS]

  think there's a handful of like big hot [TS]

  spot areas that if they are still [TS]

  lacking I want to see somebody get fired [TS]

  I know it's not cool to talk about Apple [TS]

  executives and s VPS and talk about them [TS]

  personally and say who should get fired [TS]

  but I think things are bad enough now [TS]

  that heads have to roll if certain [TS]

  things don't get fixed and I would say [TS]

  maybe the list would be you know mac [TS]

  desktops hardware you know iphone design [TS]

  like if that new iphone does not come [TS]

  out this fall and they have another year [TS]

  of the iphone 6 design and you know [TS]

  general form factor that's a problem [TS]

  right if mac desktops do not get any [TS]

  kind of meaningful update during this [TS]

  year that's a big problem I would say I [TS]

  add software like multitasking on the [TS]

  iPad is one of these areas where like [TS]

  that needs to be improved significantly [TS]

  in some way i would say Siri the quality [TS]

  of Syria reliability the intelligence of [TS]

  Syrian to be improved and maybe I throw [TS]

  in TV content deals as we talked about [TS]

  earlier because those have also been [TS]

  stalled forever and the apple TV is [TS]

  suffering greatly so those things like [TS]

  if all of those don't have meaningful [TS]

  improvements by the end of 2017 then [TS]

  that will be a very long time during [TS]

  which these things have not improved and [TS]

  desperately need to and somebody high up [TS]

  needs to get fired or resign at that [TS]

  point well you would like that to happen [TS]

  but if the rest of the world says hey [TS]

  record iphone sales here is a ten [TS]

  percent bump to your stock price Apple [TS]

  Apple is doing great from the [TS]

  perspective of investors and and other [TS]

  people who have you know the broader [TS]

  world that has expectations what Apple's [TS]

  supposed to do which is sell a lot of [TS]

  iphones for a high price they're doing [TS]

  that really really well so far and [TS]

  everything we're talking about is tiny [TS]

  little slivers of that of the giant pie [TS]

  wedge that is the revenue of Apple well [TS]

  no it's not because look Microsoft did [TS]

  really well under steve ballmer it [TS]

  financially for a long time he had like [TS]

  record quarters record sales as the [TS]

  product line just stagnated and crumbled [TS]

  and the quality of the foundation the [TS]

  company was built on crumbled and the [TS]

  world around it moved on to this massive [TS]

  new world of mobile and they totally [TS]

  missed it because they were not being [TS]

  managed properly so this is it's not it [TS]

  the fact that they keep selling record [TS]

  quarters is not good enough for Apple [TS]

  but what I'm saying is like a executives [TS]

  don't get fired when your stock price [TS]

  goes up in general all right so I was [TS]

  like I'm saying like whether you think [TS]

  it's the right thing to do or what you [TS]

  would do versus what is actually going [TS]

  to happen right because the only thing [TS]

  we've seen executives get can for at [TS]

  Apple is not getting along with other [TS]

  executives that's forestall not being [TS]

  like a cultural fit or like flailing and [TS]

  not being a success like whatever [TS]

  papermaster and those people who were [TS]

  there for very short time right what [TS]

  would it take for a long time ur to get [TS]

  fired I mean I think we've seen with the [TS]

  reshuffling not firing but like I we [TS]

  don't know what's going on with that [TS]

  reshuffling that they've done various [TS]

  times but surely that reshuffling [TS]

  is elevating some people and and and [TS]

  minimizing other people right within the [TS]

  company enough so that they all stay [TS]

  there but still like still still [TS]

  affecting that right you're not going to [TS]

  see like it's a big name executive get [TS]

  fired when every kind of metric you can [TS]

  put on the company is looking good [TS]

  because that's just not how big [TS]

  companies work now arguably like you [TS]

  said yet they're making a big mistake [TS]

  sure you're figuring how to make more [TS]

  money about the iphone but what about [TS]

  the future of all blah but they've [TS]

  answers for all that well future we have [TS]

  all these super products so you don't [TS]

  know about plus the car crap and stuff [TS]

  like that and maybe a little hit and [TS]

  maybe they want like it's not like they [TS]

  had their heads in the sand right but I [TS]

  don't what I'm saying is that don't get [TS]

  your hopes up for that to happen right [TS]

  even if even if none of the things you [TS]

  listed happen but they still have like [TS]

  record iphone sales again and the ASP [TS]

  goes up again no one's getting fired [TS]

  like I mean if that if whoever was [TS]

  responsible for getting a skinny model [TS]

  TV deal hasn't been fired yet another [TS]

  year of not getting it is not make a [TS]

  difference to give an example is [TS]

  relevant to things we just talked about [TS]

  because obviously it's not important [TS]

  enough to the future of the company and [TS]

  in other areas like the phone like not [TS]

  the phone the watch it's hard to tell [TS]

  exactly how the watch is doing because [TS]

  apples being cagey about it but I feel [TS]

  like the watch is on a slow burn right [TS]

  it is it's not a super duper success [TS]

  like the iPhone was but even the iPhone [TS]

  wasn't a super duper success in its [TS]

  first year or two right or the ipod or [TS]

  anything like that but apple's standing [TS]

  behind the watch and working on it and [TS]

  things seem like they're going in the [TS]

  right direction with the watch it is [TS]

  getting better people like it more it is [TS]

  finding a place in the market yeah i [TS]

  actually would agree with that the watch [TS]

  there is a reason why the walk didn't [TS]

  make my hit list because like it [TS]

  actually it is not amazing you know it [TS]

  on all terms it has lots of asterisks on [TS]

  it but overall it is healthy and it does [TS]

  seem to be on the right track and so [TS]

  like the apple that is still willing to [TS]

  nurture a product like that that you [TS]

  know they're even the ipad which arguing [TS]

  they're nurturing and and helping along [TS]

  and you know they're trying to get it [TS]

  you know come on come on a little [TS]

  product like you can do it maybe they're [TS]

  not quite doing the right things but [TS]

  like the fact that they're standing [TS]

  behind those and all the rumblings we [TS]

  hear about AR and stuff like that i do [TS]

  see [TS]

  a lot of encouraging things of like how [TS]

  is Apple fostering the you know the [TS]

  development of what could be eventually [TS]

  big important businesses and how patient [TS]

  they're being with it most of our [TS]

  frustration is with pre-existing [TS]

  businesses that seemed like they are [TS]

  neglected right and because we like [TS]

  those products but like I don't know [TS]

  enough about the executives to say [TS]

  someone should be fired I think if I had [TS]

  to restructure /re staff a bunch of [TS]

  things you know it out my pics is all [TS]

  server side stuff like that's that part [TS]

  of the company is obviously in the most [TS]

  need and I don't know who's in charge of [TS]

  that who needs to be in charge of it but [TS]

  like Apple should have bought Google [TS]

  long ago and given all the [TS]

  responsibility to all their server side [TS]

  stuff google because they know what the [TS]

  hell they're doing Apple does not yet [TS]

  they're getting better but not fast [TS]

  enough what's any better faster Apple [TS]

  service or desktop linux applet services [TS]

  because that's not much going nowhere [TS]

  but yeah but but i can't i can't pin [TS]

  that to a particular group or executive [TS]

  and i think there has been restructuring [TS]

  the seeing Apple like presented like [TS]

  mezzos conferences and stuff is showing [TS]

  that that is actually going in the right [TS]

  direction they're just so far behind [TS]

  that it's pretty difficult to catch up [TS]

  but for all the other things like even [TS]

  the Mac things i don't i don't feel like [TS]

  the people who are involved in mac [TS]

  hardware like I i don't i don't know i [TS]

  don't know where the blame lies but it [TS]

  seems like priorities that would set be [TS]

  set above the level of people working on [TS]

  the mac stuff right like I bet everyone [TS]

  who's working on the Mac loves the Mac [TS]

  it wants it to be awesome and I bet a [TS]

  lot of people who are involved in the [TS]

  mac love the mac and want it to be [TS]

  awesome but it's clear that the the pace [TS]

  of product releases and innovation and [TS]

  choices about the particular mixes of [TS]

  the products are not satisfying a [TS]

  certain class of mac users and we find [TS]

  that unsatisfying and even for the [TS]

  people that is satisfying I feel like [TS]

  the releases are slower which you know [TS]

  is not you know it's not good from [TS]

  anybody's perspective that like we want [TS]

  to see new better things faster but I [TS]

  wouldn't fire anyone involved in the mac [TS]

  organization right I feel like that's a [TS]

  priority set at a higher level and I [TS]

  wouldn't fire Tim Cook because of all [TS]

  the good things that we just listed the [TS]

  phone and the watch and trying to figure [TS]

  out how to make the ipad better [TS]

  yeah I'm I have to have hopes for this [TS]

  year and I found last year disappointing [TS]

  but I think I think I'm more optimistic [TS]

  than you are that these are all [TS]

  eminently fixable problems and I am [TS]

  encouraged by by efforts like the watch [TS]

  yeah and furthermore uh I don't entirely [TS]

  get what firing somebody really [TS]

  accomplishes other than making you feel [TS]

  better that that somebody's paying for [TS]

  what you don't like and it certainly [TS]

  would presumably change course of Apple [TS]

  at least slightly if that executive was [TS]

  high enough but I mean we we don't know [TS]

  what's going on behind the curtain we [TS]

  don't know if they're playing a long [TS]

  game that that that will revolutionize [TS]

  the mac or revolutionize something else [TS]

  or just create a whole new thing that we [TS]

  can't even fathom we don't know what the [TS]

  long what what they're doing behind [TS]

  closed doors and I just feel like seeing [TS]

  a head roll or demanding ahead roll I [TS]

  don't know that that's necessarily going [TS]

  to really change anything I mean you [TS]

  just because one or even a couple people [TS]

  leave or told to leave you don't move a [TS]

  ship that big without moving the rudder [TS]

  a lot and one person can only move the [TS]

  rudder but so much unless they're like [TS]

  Steve Jobs or Tim Cook I think the [TS]

  reason why I want to see something [TS]

  change if all these things still [TS]

  continue to fail at the end of this year [TS]

  is that no if no heads roll if no one [TS]

  changes jobs if nothing really suggests [TS]

  that anything went wrong then that is [TS]

  Apple tacit least telling the world and [TS]

  possibly themselves internally this is [TS]

  fine this is how we want things to go [TS]

  it's one thing if the reason why all [TS]

  these things are in neglect right now is [TS]

  because lots of things have gone wrong [TS]

  or somebody really messed up or somebody [TS]

  made a terrible decision or took a bad [TS]

  risk or something like that it's another [TS]

  thing if these things are all this way [TS]

  in this state of neglect because that's [TS]

  considered okay so if something if [TS]

  there's somebody who like whose job [TS]

  changes for instance the role of the App [TS]

  Store [TS]

  recently got taken out of its previous [TS]

  organization and moved under phil [TS]

  schiller and in the like eight years or [TS]

  whatever it was it was under the [TS]

  previous organization nothing happened [TS]

  it was just stagnant had lots of [TS]

  problems and it's been at a schiller for [TS]

  about a year now and lots of improvement [TS]

  have happened already and there's you [TS]

  know they're there at a great pace so [TS]

  obviously that was an area where [TS]

  something was really not working right [TS]

  it was had a lot of problems it got [TS]

  moved to a different executive so [TS]

  effectively the old executive was like [TS]

  you know presumably like removed from it [TS]

  in some kind of action you know or some [TS]

  kind of decision and then under the new [TS]

  decorative things change because [TS]

  something wasn't going right so that was [TS]

  a recognition internally to the company [TS]

  that this this is not working this is [TS]

  not good enough we're going to change it [TS]

  so it can be good enough and so if [TS]

  nothing changes in this list of things [TS]

  that you know mac desktops iphone is if [TS]

  nothing changes and we end these things [TS]

  are still being neglected almost a year [TS]

  from now after being a hood for the last [TS]

  few years then that to me is a sign that [TS]

  Tim Cook and everyone beneath him [TS]

  believes that is good enough so that [TS]

  ultimately rests on Tim whether the [TS]

  problem is Tim himself or somebody below [TS]

  him that is on Tim to manage to [TS]

  supervise and to fix if there are [TS]

  problems you know when when there are [TS]

  problems between forestall and I've and [TS]

  whoever whatever the drama was there Tim [TS]

  saw there was a problem here and he [TS]

  fixed it and whether you like his [TS]

  solution or not he took an action [TS]

  because things were not good enough he [TS]

  fixed it if nothing changes in these [TS]

  areas and they're still being horribly [TS]

  neglected in another year from now then [TS]

  that is Tim Cook implicitly saying this [TS]

  is good enough yeah but that's a stretch [TS]

  fruity choice no fee if he chooses to [TS]

  de-emphasize the mac or cancel the mac [TS]

  entirely that's a strategic choice for [TS]

  the company will make all of us sad but [TS]

  like it's not it's not saying like we [TS]

  think this is good enough it's saying [TS]

  yeah we're de prioritizing that and [TS]

  shifting our efforts elsewhere because [TS]

  we don't think that's an important [TS]

  important to the future growth of the [TS]

  company right which we hate and we we [TS]

  don't like but like it's not as [TS]

  the same as saying we're trying to put [TS]

  everything we handed behind the Mac like [TS]

  it's the difference in attention like we [TS]

  are trying to make the mac the best that [TS]

  could possibly be and this is our best [TS]

  effort I'm not even asking for that I'm [TS]

  asking for basic maintenance yeah well [TS]

  again because if they're if they were [TS]

  trying to say we are trying to maintain [TS]

  in the mac in the fashion that has it [TS]

  has been maintained in the past and they [TS]

  think this is satisfactory you right [TS]

  there that they're wrong on that but if [TS]

  instead they're saying this is exactly [TS]

  the amount of support for the mac that [TS]

  we want this is exactly how we wanted to [TS]

  go the exactly the products we want out [TS]

  of them we're very happy with the [TS]

  results this is our strategic direction [TS]

  we're all sad and mad about it but from [TS]

  a company you know from the perspective [TS]

  of his Tim Cook making the right [TS]

  decision for the company it's arguable [TS]

  that he is because the mac is clearly [TS]

  not the future of Apple right it's just [TS]

  this thing that we all I can use right [TS]

  and if it means that more time and [TS]

  energy and money is available for [TS]

  whatever you know the actual future [TS]

  Apple is going to be but it's going to [TS]

  be the watch or AR or self-driving cars [TS]

  off or who knows what that is probably [TS]

  the correct strategic direction for the [TS]

  company despite how angry it makes us i [TS]

  think is entirely a question of what [TS]

  their intent is because it's like [TS]

  judging whether its success or a failure [TS]

  we see what the results are and if that [TS]

  is the intended results and they're [TS]

  getting exactly what they want and then [TS]

  our quibble is just for the strategic [TS]

  direction whereas if the intended result [TS]

  is very different than what we're [TS]

  actually getting then that's the company [TS]

  failing to you know xq successfully on [TS]

  its own plan right and because apple [TS]

  doesn't really tell you what its own [TS]

  plans are in terms of how it emphasizes [TS]

  product lines and stuff other than sort [TS]

  of the PR problem that we get about you [TS]

  know we love the mac blah blah blah [TS]

  which really says nothing it's very [TS]

  difficult to judge whether they are [TS]

  failing or successfully executing [TS]

  strategy we don't like yeah I couldn't [TS]

  agree more in in I concur that I am [TS]

  disappointed with the way the Mac has [TS]

  been treated and I would like to see it [TS]

  be different but just because my engine [TS]

  isn't revved by a touch bar doesn't mean [TS]

  the touch bar is wrong it doesn't mean [TS]

  that it was a failure doesn't mean Apple [TS]

  isn't innovating it doesn't mean it's [TS]

  not a magical awesome improvement all it [TS]

  means is it's not right for me and for [TS]

  me [TS]

  to it to hypothetically say oh that [TS]

  Apple's doing everything wrong or that [TS]

  the head of mac hardware should be fired [TS]

  strictly because of the touch bar which [TS]

  is not what you're saying markets not [TS]

  all I'm saying nope no I'm not I know [TS]

  it's not but I I think you know what I'm [TS]

  trying just rephrase and say that I [TS]

  think you're conflating a disappointment [TS]

  with direction this is what John is just [TS]

  alluding to a difference in direction [TS]

  our disappointment in direction with a [TS]

  failure and that is not necessarily the [TS]

  case just like John said I agree that I [TS]

  I don't like the way things are going [TS]

  but I think it's too strong to say that [TS]

  it's a failure at this point it's just [TS]

  it seems a little bit aggressive to me [TS]

  know and I didn't say these things are [TS]

  all failures at this point I said that [TS]

  these are you know these are like you [TS]

  know checks the 2016 wrote for 2017 to [TS]

  cash and if 2017 goes through and these [TS]

  things are all still a problem something [TS]

  needs to change big time because it [TS]

  isn't you know I'm not saying that a [TS]

  company that's trying to maximize its [TS]

  revenue and make itself a solid growth [TS]

  potential in the future shouldn't change [TS]

  strategy what I am saying is that Apple [TS]

  does not ship strat apples entire brand [TS]

  and the reputation they built up over [TS]

  years and years and years is that they [TS]

  don't ship shit that Apple products are [TS]

  good they are great and for them to keep [TS]

  saying that and to have major areas of [TS]

  the product line that are really [TS]

  embarrassing or really like customer [TS]

  hostile even for years on end that they [TS]

  keep selling just to scrape a little bit [TS]

  more profit off the pavement before they [TS]

  just total to kill them that is not what [TS]

  Apple should be doing that it like for [TS]

  Apple like for corporation X sure let [TS]

  let Steve Ballmer run it then why isn't [TS]

  steve ballmer running if that's what [TS]

  they want to do that's the goal let him [TS]

  do it he's great at that but that's not [TS]

  Apple that's not good enough for Apple [TS]

  it never has been and it shouldn't be [TS]

  now yeah I mean in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things even though I'm actively arguing [TS]

  with you right now I do largely agree [TS]

  with you I think that you're right the [TS]

  2016 wrote a lot of checks that I've yet [TS]

  to see 2017 cash I just [TS]

  what concerns me is I i wonder if you're [TS]

  putting apple on a pedestal and if they [TS]

  don't release the most perfect mac pro [TS]

  ever that that you're gonna still be [TS]

  fiery about it if they don't you know [TS]

  version bump the map book macbook [TS]

  adorable you're gonna be fiery about it [TS]

  truth be told i will be too but don't [TS]

  tell Marco uh the macbook adorable is [TS]

  only one year old that's fine by but by [TS]

  my standards that's that would totally [TS]

  fine yeah and I mean also remember we're [TS]

  only one calendar quarter into the year [TS]

  yet I mean there's still plenty of time [TS]

  left now in your defense Marco typically [TS]

  there is a March event of some sort and [TS]

  we are already halfway through march and [TS]

  there's been not even a peep of a [TS]

  confirmation about it which means [TS]

  they'll surely confirm it tomorrow [TS]

  before we release the episode but [TS]

  nevertheless um you know we haven't [TS]

  heard a march event yet and that's [TS]

  slightly alarming but it's only March we [TS]

  don't know what's in store for the rest [TS]

  of the year and who knows RR Sox could [TS]

  be blown off at WWDC and typically there [TS]

  at least my socks are at least blown a [TS]

  little bit forward if not entirely off [TS]

  my personality to death and so you never [TS]

  know what will happen but IIIi don't I [TS]

  wouldn't I think we shouldn't get too [TS]

  fiery yet if after WWDC and we've seen [TS]

  the software updates and we still [TS]

  haven't seen much in the way of hardware [TS]

  updates okay maybe we should start [TS]

  getting fiery but at this point I'm not [TS]

  too concerned yet on the topic of [TS]

  figuring out like fig tree and to figure [TS]

  out intent like basically as is it a is [TS]

  it a successful execution of a strategy [TS]

  we disagree with her a failed execution [TS]

  of a strategy that we would support that [TS]

  type of thing the Mac Pro is actually a [TS]

  good example because on the the idea of [TS]

  Apple not shipping things they would be [TS]

  proud of right the mac pro i think is [TS]

  the best example of it's not that it was [TS]

  it was a bad product when it was [TS]

  introduced it's actually really cool and [TS]

  interesting it's that if you keep [TS]

  shipping it for three years it becomes [TS]

  an embarrassment right and it is the [TS]

  type of embarrassment it like look there [TS]

  is no strategy that makes sense with the [TS]

  image that Apple previously had unless [TS]

  the new idea is we don't want Apple to [TS]

  have that reputation which doesn't make [TS]

  any sense because everything else Apple [TS]

  does and everything they say and [TS]

  everything they've always done is like [TS]

  yes we want to be the company has the [TS]

  reputation your shipping good stuff the [TS]

  Mac Pro is [TS]

  um it's you they shouldn't still be [TS]

  selling it and I understand why there [TS]

  why if you were if you were to get [TS]

  someone up on stage and talk to them in [TS]

  a WTC you know talk show type interview [TS]

  and say why you still ship in the mac [TS]

  pro i guarantee you what they will said [TS]

  and it's probably true is you know we [TS]

  didn't want we you know some vague [TS]

  answer about how they had it they didn't [TS]

  plan for this like there was a strategy [TS]

  to do to do something better and it [TS]

  didn't work out so i would say there [TS]

  were they would did they would vaguely [TS]

  admit to some kind of failure there and [TS]

  they would say but then why are you even [TS]

  still selling it they would say well [TS]

  because we have customers who need a [TS]

  computer like this and actually believe [TS]

  it or not in case you could probably [TS]

  believe it not selling this now piece of [TS]

  crap overpriced computer will actually [TS]

  be worse for those customers than [TS]

  continuing to sell it and then the only [TS]

  recourse you have that it's like okay [TS]

  but the Estall to sell it for like eight [TS]

  grand and they'd be like well people buy [TS]

  it and that you know whatever Apple has [TS]

  never been ashamed of selling people [TS]

  thanks for way too much money but that's [TS]

  the situation they're in so i feel like [TS]

  the mac pro figure out is this a [TS]

  strategy we don't agree with the [TS]

  resistive failure there has to be a [TS]

  failure in there whether they're not [TS]

  going to come and tell you exactly what [TS]

  the failures are you know what I mean [TS]

  like I'm gonna say oh here's what went [TS]

  wrong or whatever but that seems very [TS]

  clear to me there is no conscious [TS]

  strategy that offices you know what [TS]

  we're going to make pro hardware and [TS]

  there were not going to update over [TS]

  three or four years there I do not [TS]

  believe that was ever Apple strategy [TS]

  that is evidence of a failure how big a [TS]

  failure is that in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things I don't know or whatever but that [TS]

  is the only thing that it seems clear [TS]

  from the outside everything else you can [TS]

  say is it a failure to like ship make [TS]

  all your laptops thinner lighter is that [TS]

  a strategy or is it a failure to have [TS]

  computers that aren't really that much [TS]

  better than the ones they replace but [TS]

  are more expensive or is that part of a [TS]

  strategy like almost everything else I [TS]

  look at aiesec witnesses that seems a [TS]

  lot like a strategy maybe a strategy I [TS]

  don't agree with personally from my [TS]

  taste in product so whatever but it [TS]

  seems like a strategy but the mac pro [TS]

  does not seem like a strategy it seems [TS]

  like a failure counter-argument the mac [TS]

  mini uh neck midi totally fine they [TS]

  could update it it's really easily [TS]

  updated its uses chief component part [TS]

  that stuff that's a strategy well and so [TS]

  their strategy was let's put this thing [TS]

  out there but because it doesn't sound [TS]

  very high volumes let's never update it [TS]

  basically why couldn't that have been [TS]

  the same strategy for the mac pro no [TS]

  because the mac pro the whole point of [TS]

  the mac pro it is [TS]

  is the biggest fastest computer for the [TS]

  most demanding workloads and the rest of [TS]

  apples product line like the 5k imac has [TS]

  passed it by like its role in the [TS]

  product line is to be the biggest [TS]

  fastest and most expensive the role the [TS]

  Mac Mini is to be the cheapest and [TS]

  crappy a success like you know if you [TS]

  never updated it exactly feels its role [TS]

  the cheapest and crappiest you're just [TS]

  like oh this is a product apple doesn't [TS]

  care about and doesn't really care about [TS]

  updating that I feel like mac mini looks [TS]

  totally like strategy to me but there is [TS]

  no world in which a strategy of like [TS]

  we're going to make the biggest fastest [TS]

  computer that never make it any faster [TS]

  in the whole rest of our product line [TS]

  including eventually our watches are [TS]

  going to be faster than this friggin [TS]

  trash can that's that's not a strategy [TS]

  because of the slot that the product [TS]

  goes in so it's got to be a failure mmm [TS]

  III don't I don't think we have enough [TS]

  Tim Cook Apple history to know that I i [TS]

  think there's very plausibly I think it [TS]

  was probably a failure of some kind but [TS]

  I think it's very plausibly also just a [TS]

  strategy of how today's Apple deals with [TS]

  low volume products we need to like [TS]

  write all these things down so that we [TS]

  can wait like in 20 years for like the [TS]

  tell-all book like we need to track down [TS]

  these long retired millionaire Apple [TS]

  executives like what tell happen with [TS]

  the mac pro like tell us cuz from the [TS]

  outside we can't tell what you know it [TS]

  was it just like an Intel thing that you [TS]

  didn't get or the sales volume or there [TS]

  was some like I don't know what what was [TS]

  the what happened like her did you have [TS]

  a design then they were fatal flaws with [TS]

  this little triangle design and you're [TS]

  just eating the cost on the GPU [TS]

  replacements and the new one you had [TS]

  planned didn't work like what what [TS]

  happened whereas the mac mini I feel [TS]

  like you interviewed me like an old kiss [TS]

  but like computer its low-end and [TS]

  compile splashed on the mac for any way [TS]

  home Oh is there any show that we can't [TS]

  eventually get to the mac pro bono case [TS]

  he loves it that's the best it makes me [TS]

  so happy thanks to our three sponsors [TS]

  this week ero betterment and square [TS]

  space and we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin cuz it was accidental oh [TS]

  it was accidental John did any research [TS]

  Marco and Casey wouldn't let him [TS]

  cuz it was accidentally it was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes today TP FM and if you're into [TS]

  twitter you can follow them at cas eyl [TS]

  ISS so that's Casey list and a osseo a [TS]

  RM can t marco arment SI r kc us a [TS]

  syracuse [TS]

  can we can we please talk about [TS]

  something that'll make us happier please [TS]

  like the switch maybe hopefully possibly [TS]

  John how do you like you switch uh it's [TS]

  hard to say how I like my switch because [TS]

  come on supposed to be your happy plan [TS]

  uh because as far as like I feel kind of [TS]

  bad as a lot of people who I know who [TS]

  are using the switch or I'll talking [TS]

  about it they're talking about the [TS]

  hardware and it's like this is just a [TS]

  Zelda delivery device for me at this [TS]

  point kind of like it you know my [TS]

  playstation 4 became my destiny delivery [TS]

  device uh and in that capacity I wish as [TS]

  always that the hardware was faster [TS]

  because then I wouldn't have slowdowns [TS]

  in forested areas and it's like I still [TS]

  find myself thinking can you imagine how [TS]

  how you know how even better this game [TS]

  would be on the ps4 but in general I [TS]

  don't spend much time dwelling it up [TS]

  because I'm really really loving Zelda I [TS]

  think it's a great game I enjoy it I [TS]

  think about it when I'm not playing I [TS]

  can't wait to play it every time I'm [TS]

  away from the game and it's like [TS]

  watching a movie I really don't think [TS]

  about the quality of my blu-ray player [TS]

  on and watch a good movie i think about [TS]

  the movie so when i'm playing so i'm [TS]

  thinking about zelda and it's awesome [TS]

  and it's great and mice which has [TS]

  literally never been held in my hands to [TS]

  play a game and has not left the dock [TS]

  since i got zelda so i'm using mice [TS]

  which it is I'm pretending that Nintendo [TS]

  is still releasing TV connected consoles [TS]

  and not this hybrid portable thing and [TS]

  I'm perfectly happy with that eventually [TS]

  I probably will take it out and try [TS]

  playing a handheld and see what that's [TS]

  like but for now it is me a pro [TS]

  controller and Zelda and I'm loving it [TS]

  no spoilers please you know it's funny [TS]

  so I played with two different peoples [TS]

  which is my sister-in-law got one and [TS]

  she came over the evening of of launch [TS]

  day and in the following day I went to [TS]

  my friend Steve's house and and played [TS]

  with his for a little bit and in I guess [TS]

  in a kind of opposite way in that I [TS]

  don't think I really want a canister to [TS]

  speak to because I don't really see how [TS]

  it will [TS]

  help my life I want to switch so badly [TS]

  even though I know I'll play it for like [TS]

  a week and then never look back because [TS]

  I just think this thing is so darn cool [TS]

  and I've been super impressed by it we [TS]

  actually hooked it up to my TV because [TS]

  my sister my sister in laws that is [TS]

  because she hadn't hooked it up to hers [TS]

  yet and I thought that was super awesome [TS]

  I played a few minutes of Zelda I [TS]

  thought that was really cool I didn't [TS]

  play it enough to like really get into [TS]

  it but my initial impressions were great [TS]

  the hard way or with the with the [TS]

  weirdly named joy cons like I find that [TS]

  name to be a little bit peculiar but the [TS]

  click that it makes when you plug it [TS]

  when you slide one of them in and [TS]

  removing it is so cool and the kickstand [TS]

  is little chintzy or whatever but it [TS]

  still gets the job done for the most [TS]

  part like everything about this hardware [TS]

  is so cool and I really want one for no [TS]

  reason at all because I'm just not [TS]

  really a videogame kind of guy but man [TS]

  this thing is neat and I'm super [TS]

  impressed by it and it's the first time [TS]

  I've lusted after a video game system [TS]

  since the original Wii which I did play [TS]

  a lot of for about a year and then I [TS]

  just never look back but I've been super [TS]

  super anxious to get my hands on one [TS]

  even though well I mean I could get my [TS]

  hands on when I'm sure but I I know [TS]

  myself enough to know that I'm just I'm [TS]

  I'm in lust I'm not in love but we'll [TS]

  see what happens over time Marco you you [TS]

  guys are I guess really TIFF got one [TS]

  right so what have you thought oh we [TS]

  haven't we haven't really played it much [TS]

  I so I I just came back from a trip I [TS]

  left that trip short left less or left [TS]

  for that trip shortly after last week's [TS]

  show the night before the trip i tried [TS]

  to buy and download zelda and the the [TS]

  credit card thing on in tennis website [TS]

  just kept failing and timing out and [TS]

  everything like their whole website just [TS]

  sucked that night it just like [TS]

  everything kept failing and so I wasn't [TS]

  able to buy it in time for the trip and [TS]

  so I didn't bring it because I'm like [TS]

  you know I have like you know I have [TS]

  bomb Iran and that racing game neither [TS]

  which i've actually played yet I just [TS]

  because like you know buying installing [TS]

  this so if it all takes time and then I [TS]

  have to do something else and I left for [TS]

  a trip and I'm not going to bring this [TS]

  entire console taking up space in my bag [TS]

  and one more thing to charge and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  just for these two kind of like you know [TS]

  second to your games I you know if I [TS]

  could get Zelda before the show sure [TS]

  I'll bring it but I couldn't so that's [TS]

  so I didn't bring it and now we're back [TS]

  and I'm dealing with all the work I [TS]

  missed so I still haven't actually [TS]

  played it yet and I'd love to play it on [TS]

  my TV but I can't get a pro controller [TS]

  anywhere so that kind of breaks that as [TS]

  well I don't really want to use the [TS]

  weird little like it so you can stop [TS]

  playing I was inside you can play it on [TS]

  your TV without a pro control you just [TS]

  got to use the joy con so that a lot of [TS]

  people have asked me if I have like the [TS]

  left joy con disconnecting thing I don't [TS]

  know I don't use those things here's the [TS]

  brake controller and it works fine rice [TS]

  athlete so like it's not disconnect yeah [TS]

  so so I need to get myself a pro [TS]

  controller to really enjoy this thing [TS]

  because what I really want is to just [TS]

  it's most of the time to play these [TS]

  games on my TV so once I get that then [TS]

  let me know but I'm also i suspect that [TS]

  these initial games i got are probably [TS]

  not going to be a lot of my time i'm not [TS]

  really into Zelda TIFF would probably [TS]

  play it but I probably won't I'm more [TS]

  into like the racing and stuff game so [TS]

  when Mario Kart comes out I'm very much [TS]

  into that but I that's not out yet and [TS]

  like when the new sonic thing comes out [TS]

  I'll be very much into that probably but [TS]

  that also isn't out yet Mario games when [TS]

  those come out but they also aren't any [TS]

  kind of virtual console stuff to maybe [TS]

  play some of the games that I've missed [TS]

  since like the Super Nintendo era or the [TS]

  n64 era like to play some of that [TS]

  someone like the mario games have come [TS]

  out in the middle if that becomes [TS]

  available and possible to do I'd love to [TS]

  do that but I can't yet because they [TS]

  don't exist so eventually I expect to [TS]

  really enjoy this thing but right now [TS]

  I've barely used it because everything [TS]

  I've tried to do either failed or took [TS]

  too long and then I had to go on trip I [TS]

  feel like they are like three obvious [TS]

  possibilities with this Zelda the Zelda [TS]

  in particular one is your super zelda [TS]

  fan and you played all the the 3d Zelda [TS]

  games and you love them you will also [TS]

  love this game so that that's the easy [TS]

  case that's why all the gaming press [TS]

  loves of that's why I love it right to [TS]

  is you don't know a Zelda from a hole in [TS]

  the wall and you bought this switch [TS]

  because you saw one thought it was neat [TS]

  and you get Zelda because it's like that [TS]

  you know the popular top tier game to [TS]

  get on launch and you start playing it [TS]

  and you just slowly gradually get lost [TS]

  in Zelda playing your version [TS]

  what you think the zelda game is [TS]

  supposed to be about maybe not even [TS]

  advancing the actual main quest [TS]

  storyline for a very long time and spend [TS]

  like literally a year and a half [TS]

  consumed by this little the toybox world [TS]

  because you have never played a sandbox [TS]

  game before and you've never played a [TS]

  zelda and this is all entirely new to [TS]

  you right and the third possibility is [TS]

  you've never played a zelda you get this [TS]

  game you try it and you're like this [TS]

  seems big and confusing not for me and I [TS]

  think that's what Marco is gonna happens [TS]

  like yeah it's neat I can see how people [TS]

  might like it but not my type of game [TS]

  and probably also happened to tiff [TS]

  because it's it's very difficult i feel [TS]

  like to play this zelda game in [TS]

  particular in any zelda game in a casual [TS]

  way you're either going to know what [TS]

  you're getting into and know you like [TS]

  this kind of game or not know what [TS]

  you're getting into and just be [TS]

  completely consumed because you don't [TS]

  have the antibodies for this type of [TS]

  thing but you are the type of person who [TS]

  is tirely who does like this kind of [TS]

  game and for that have a person like I [TS]

  can imagine singing literally hundreds [TS]

  of hours into this non multiplayer [TS]

  single-player completely entirely [TS]

  scripted deterministic game because [TS]

  you'll just be like climbing trees and [TS]

  picking apples and cooking food and and [TS]

  exploring and occasionally advancing [TS]

  this big overarching world story thing [TS]

  which may eventually get too hard for [TS]

  you to do anyway and like because if [TS]

  you've never done that before this is [TS]

  amazing I've done all this stuff before [TS]

  I'm like you know amazed and excited and [TS]

  just want to go exploring and do things [TS]

  and like constantly getting distracted [TS]

  from advancing the main quest by all the [TS]

  other things that you can do whether [TS]

  they be official side quests or entirely [TS]

  different ones and it's just it's for [TS]

  for an experienced sell it express it [TS]

  impresses experienced Zelda fans but I [TS]

  think like the best like the ideal [TS]

  experiences for like for this to be your [TS]

  first Zelda and for you to be the type [TS]

  of person who loves Zelda but you don't [TS]

  know it yet because you've never played [TS]

  one this was your first Delvian like [TS]

  some kid for some kid this is going to [TS]

  be this kids for a cell to game it's [TS]

  gonna blow their mind they're going to [TS]

  talk about this game like we talked [TS]

  about Mario 64 of being like oh so [TS]

  that's what three platforming is oh I [TS]

  see that's that's how 3d works like like [TS]

  completely you know childhood defining [TS]

  game type experience so I'm [TS]

  I'm excited by this but I have dim hopes [TS]

  that Marco will get anything out of it [TS]

  and I'm not sure about tiff because [TS]

  she's been hot and cold on the on the [TS]

  other 3d Zelda game so we'll see but [TS]

  yeah I'm as with as with so many other [TS]

  game consoles that I by if this was the [TS]

  only game I was ever allowed to play on [TS]

  the switch already worth the money see [TS]

  for me I I expect mario kart will [TS]

  probably be that game if not one of the [TS]

  later Mario's but yeah we'll see yeah [TS]

  I've wondered when the mario kart comes [TS]

  out because I'm played mario cart in a [TS]

  long time and and my understanding is [TS]

  it's just like a slight refresh or [TS]

  something like that but either way what [TS]

  it comes out if I give that a shot that [TS]

  might give me enough ammunition to buy [TS]

  the switch be in the reason I say that [TS]

  it's not because i don't think i would [TS]

  love gisele de I think I would but I [TS]

  view that as I would play it once and [TS]

  then be done and I don't know if it's [TS]

  worth what 300 hours to the switch and [TS]

  like seventy dollars six dollars for the [TS]

  Zelda to call it four hundred dollars [TS]

  and you play once as in one sitting or [TS]

  you think you would finish the whole [TS]

  game no no I'm saying over the course of [TS]

  like a month or two maybe I would finish [TS]

  the whole game but I don't know if I [TS]

  want to spend four hundred dollars on [TS]

  Zelda because it I feel like I would [TS]

  play Zell to think wow that was really [TS]

  great i'm glad i did that and then never [TS]

  look at the switch again but if I see [TS]

  like Mario Kart which I know that I've [TS]

  loved previous Mario Kart games if I see [TS]

  that in its yo well reviewed and I get [TS]

  to play it on you know one of my friends [TS]

  consoles and I like it that might change [TS]

  things additionally I've never played [TS]

  splatoon but I've heard nothing but [TS]

  universal praise for it so I believe [TS]

  that's again like a refresh our new [TS]

  version is coming for the switch at some [TS]

  point so maybe if I play that all think [TS]

  oh you know maybe this is worth it but [TS]

  sitting here now i am i'm looking for a [TS]

  reason to spend my money on this thing i [TS]

  just can't come up with it yet if you're [TS]

  gonna play that many games though and [TS]

  you like beer derailing all those things [TS]

  you like beer derailing all those things [TS]

  you think you might play like honestly [TS]

  we better for you to get a ps4 because [TS]

  there are there are so many different [TS]

  choices and franchise like that the next [TS]

  game in my queue for example is a [TS]

  horizon zero dawn which as a terrible [TS]

  title which is also an open-world e-tab [TS]

  game but looks 100 times better because [TS]

  it's on ps4 and you know anyway it's [TS]

  being compared to Zelda a lot but on a [TS]

  ps4 you get that you get the Uncharted [TS]

  series you get all the all the top tier [TS]

  games on antennas thing you just get [TS]

  Nintendo's top to your games so it is [TS]

  slimmer pickings and I feel like you [TS]

  would have a better experience on a on a [TS]

  quote-unquote real TV connected console [TS]

  but for for Nintendo specific franchises [TS]

  Merrick our date I feel like I know what [TS]

  that's going to be because already [TS]

  plated this is a deluxe version right [TS]

  and for me I still miss the driving [TS]

  mechanics Double Dash it's still my [TS]

  favorite but Mara card it was a really [TS]

  good mario kart and just adding more [TS]

  tracks and everything is also going to [TS]

  make it really good but I find as I get [TS]

  older my tolerance for rubber banding AI [TS]

  and racing games is decreasing mightily [TS]

  and and because I was never particularly [TS]

  good at raising games multiplayer is [TS]

  just another another avenue for me to [TS]

  feel frustrated because everyone I play [TS]

  online is a hundred times better than I [TS]

  am so it's almost almost becomes like a [TS]

  party game where like it's only good [TS]

  when you're playing with other people [TS]

  and even then even within my own family [TS]

  it's hard to find people of our scale [TS]

  ranges are too too widely varied right [TS]

  that's the problem and so we we could [TS]

  play four player mario kart but two to [TS]

  three people are going to be really [TS]

  upset because they're never going to win [TS]

  and and that's bad yeah like I'm not [TS]

  entirely sure that you should get a [TS]

  switch Casey I think probably eventually [TS]

  Declan will tell you what you should get [TS]

  and you should just do what he says [TS]

  that's nice yeah not yet but eventually [TS]

  he'll tell you which console you should [TS]

  get and why and you should just listen [TS]

  to him and do that and then maybe you [TS]

  can maybe he can show you the ropes and [TS]

  teach you some things well there's a [TS]

  couple things she's not considering [TS]

  though like number one I classically was [TS]

  a Nintendo kind of guy I had everything [TS]

  up through and including 64 and then was [TS]

  a gamecube and I did not have then I had [TS]

  a wii and I didn't do anything since [TS]

  please skip the gamecube man so many [TS]

  good games such a good controller to be [TS]

  fair a lot of people skip the game keith [TS]

  also true it was less about the hardware [TS]

  more about me just not really being [TS]

  interested in games anymore and and [TS]

  that's the other thing is that you know [TS]

  you're probably right on paper that a [TS]

  ps4 would be a better like a more [TS]

  worthwhile purchase but all of these [TS]

  tops to your games that that any normal [TS]

  human or any normal gamer would would [TS]

  want to play i just don't really have [TS]

  much interest in like I know that I I [TS]

  have played at least one Zelda game I [TS]

  played all of ocarina time and a fair [TS]

  bit of what I whatever was on the way if [TS]

  memory serves Skyward Sword where you [TS]

  wave the controller around to wave the [TS]

  sort no maybe it wasn't the wii then I [TS]

  don't think it was the way yeah if me I [TS]

  don't remember what it was maybe was one [TS]

  for the Gamecube but I played it on the [TS]

  way it doesn't anybody brings us yes I [TS]

  think that's I think was twilight [TS]

  princess now they say that it doesn't [TS]

  really matter though the point is that I [TS]

  the couple that have played I've enjoyed [TS]

  but other than that uh what appeals to [TS]

  me about the switch is that I think it [TS]

  would be great for the party games that [TS]

  I remember from when I was a kid from [TS]

  the nintendo 64 like the equivalents [TS]

  thereof so like mario kart things like [TS]

  goldeneye which I see splatoon kind of [TS]

  filling that void you know what I mean [TS]

  it's it's I don't have a terrible [TS]

  interest in going online and playing [TS]

  strangers because i know i'll get just [TS]

  completely destroyed by eight year olds [TS]

  and that's okay but having a bunch of [TS]

  friends or family or both over and [TS]

  playing sounds really appealing and i [TS]

  was super impressed like God knows if [TS]

  this would work at all or if it would [TS]

  work well but I was super impressed by [TS]

  the like trailer promo video or whatever [TS]

  that came out in October where they had [TS]

  like a portable switch and that's [TS]

  redundant but a switch not docked and [TS]

  they had like two people playing each [TS]

  with their own joy Connor they I think [TS]

  there might have even been one where [TS]

  they have like four people playing or at [TS]

  certainly at another point they had like [TS]

  a series of switches switch I whatever [TS]

  the plural is this particular switch is [TS]

  correct yeah definitely that's done [TS]

  Leah the plural switches switch you guys [TS]

  but anyway they had they had you know [TS]

  several switches all in like a circle [TS]

  and presumably they were all like [TS]