0:00:00with this we're gonna have this exact
0:00:01same conversation about the goddamn Mac
0:00:02Pro whenever that gets refreshed much
0:00:05more conversation it's not going to be a
0:00:06new mac pro it's going to be a fancier
0:00:08imac it'll be a short conversation
0:00:09they'll be finding them I'll buy one
0:00:11anyway and that'll be that I agree with
0:00:13most what you just said except it'll be
0:00:15a short conversation yeah Thank You
0:00:17Marco Wow pletely agree I'll ask the
0:00:19show or two I'm just saying it's not
0:00:20like we're gonna be obsessing a shower
0:00:22too it'll last a month well I guess what
0:00:25we'll do is we'll go back to talking
0:00:27about the mac pro and they're like okay
0:00:28fine so they did this imac thing but now
0:00:30let's complain more about why they
0:00:32should actually do a real mac pro
0:00:33remember when they used to sell a
0:00:34professional computer 15 shows later so
0:00:38i think we finally wrapped that up but
0:00:41we won't be talking about the imac the
0:00:43mac pro will be we'll take care of in
0:00:45the shower too that's true and then and
0:00:47then one more show when we all get ours
0:00:48but then mostly will go back to
0:00:49complaining about seriously you're not
0:00:51really making the mac pro anymore
0:00:52especially if they don't say they're not
0:00:53making they keep selling the old one
0:00:55that'll be awesome like hell with the
0:00:56new imac it wa really see it it's got a
0:00:58Z on it but they keep selling the old
0:00:59Mac Pro would be like what are you doing
0:01:01what is it going through your head
0:01:02here's a question do you think on
0:01:05january first 2018 the 2013 back / will
0:01:09still be for sale no absolutely not I
0:01:12vote yes I I would if I had to pick I
0:01:17would vote no but it's not as big of a
0:01:18it's not as sure of things I I would
0:01:21hope it would be as I think about it I'm
0:01:23like you wanna bet five bucks betting
0:01:26your any money i'm guessing january
0:01:28first 2018 it's still for sale I'll take
0:01:31your five dollar bet yeah alright it's a
0:01:33deal because i think it's close that's
0:01:35why it interesting bit because i think
0:01:37they'll because i think they'll
0:01:38introduce and I Mac Pro and the like and
0:01:40this is the replacement for the mac pro
0:01:41like that's that's how I think it'll be
0:01:43position it will finally give them cover
0:01:44to can that stupid machine the cam began
0:01:47so my primary bet is that is that it
0:01:50this is still for sale the the 2013
0:01:53trash yet Mac Pro is still for sale on
0:01:54John January first my secondary bet
0:01:58which I guess i will probably won't put
0:02:00money on but my secondary bit is that
0:02:02during the entire year of 2017 they
0:02:04won't actually address this issue
0:02:06publicly they won't even say anything of
0:02:09substance about any kind of future pro
0:02:12heart prototype hardware
0:02:13that basically like this this year will
0:02:15come and go with no changes to the mac
0:02:17pro in either the product line or in
0:02:19announcements pop vote if they make an
0:02:22imac proud as I count as them saying
0:02:23something all I think only that they
0:02:25discontinued the mac pro but what if
0:02:27they say this is our new vision for a
0:02:29hardware ball a lot but then also keep
0:02:30selling it for the same reason that
0:02:31keeps telling everything because
0:02:32somebody somewhere was to buy it well
0:02:34I'd still win the primary bed in that
0:02:35case the secondary bit of whether they
0:02:37like have done this I guess would depend
0:02:39on like it'd be a little bit Vega be
0:02:41like is it just like the same processor
0:02:43lines like you know like the Intel like
0:02:456700 k whatever like if it has the word
0:02:47pro in the name like it's clear what
0:02:49they're talking about is even but if
0:02:51it's still pretty much an imac like it
0:02:54would need like a Zeon like that's like
0:02:56and not an e3 the e3 does not count as a
0:02:59Zeon is there at eight core is there an
0:03:01acorn on Z on until I know the in the
0:03:04future I think tips are said a while but
0:03:06like one of the various lakes coffee or
0:03:08whatever one of those are supposed to be
0:03:09a 6-core variant in the the series but
0:03:12if there is like a quote I mac pro but
0:03:15it still has the same consumer processor
0:03:18line that doesn't count to me that's
0:03:20just that's just my mac and yet because
0:03:21the imac is fine the imac is great i'm
0:03:23using one now like there's a lot of
0:03:24reasons to have an imac but they can't
0:03:27act pro on the end and sell it in space
0:03:29gray and charge more but if it doesn't
0:03:31have a xeon e5 in there that's that's
0:03:33not a mac pro i will argue about it
0:03:35later but i'm going to bed you Mac
0:03:37brought him out that's it yep I am I am
0:03:40tuckered out on the Mac Pro it doesn't
0:03:42take much to be fair now it doesn't so
0:03:46as always we start with follow-up and
0:03:47Lucas gosen goosen guy need to look
0:03:50these up before a record that's okay
0:03:52though Lucas JIRA hates he cited an
0:03:56existing app and we are not going to
0:03:58name that app that is currently on the
0:04:00iOS App Store that actually has
0:04:02overlapping windows and colin allen also
0:04:05wrote in to say that when he was working
0:04:07at blackboard they shipped a multi
0:04:10window ipad app with gestures now this
0:04:13is a long time ago from what i can tell
0:04:15so an allen's defense this you i was was
0:04:17modern at the time looking at it now is
0:04:20mildly alarming but there are things
0:04:24that are multi window
0:04:27in the on the iPad that exists either in
0:04:30the past or today so does that change
0:04:32how you feel about things in any way
0:04:34shape or form John no because everyone
0:04:37knows there's always things on the app
0:04:39store that violate guidelines like this
0:04:40that's the whole point of the App Store
0:04:41guidelines if you try to say you can try
0:04:43and did a little kid thing but why my
0:04:45sister get to have lollipop like it's
0:04:47just yes there are going to be
0:04:50applications that the somehow got by
0:04:52that didn't get flagged and yours gets
0:04:54flagged like your argument is always
0:04:55with with the rule system and not with
0:04:57like people who happen to have skated by
0:04:59I mean pick a guideline I guarantee you
0:05:02can find multiple applications on the
0:05:03app star the violet that guideline
0:05:04that's just the way it is but anyway I
0:05:06like seeing these examples of
0:05:08applications that actually shipped in
0:05:09this way and you know the world didn't
0:05:12come to an end and also apparently it
0:05:13was not a UI paradigm that was copied by
0:05:15lots of other application so I'm not
0:05:17quite sure how successful it was but I
0:05:18like the idea that few of them snuck
0:05:20through I like this better than the idea
0:05:22then of millions of apps that send you
0:05:25spam push notifications sneaking through
0:05:28quote unquote mm-hmm all right and then
0:05:32friend of the show Stephen Chow and
0:05:33Smith has put together a swift
0:05:36playground that will let you try the
0:05:40floating keyboard on an iPad so you
0:05:42would use the switch playgrounds app on
0:05:44the on the iPad and run the code that he
0:05:47is put on github I believe I have I
0:05:50intended to try this and then completely
0:05:52forgot about it but anyway you can
0:05:54download this drop it in Swift
0:05:56playgrounds and give it a shot have
0:05:57either of you tried this nope and see I
0:06:00really wish I have but it's not my mind
0:06:02John those are they get for adding
0:06:03anything resembling a programming
0:06:06environment to iOS because someone's
0:06:08like know what you can do with a
0:06:09programming language you can write
0:06:11programs then you know what those
0:06:12programs do they execute on your device
0:06:14without going app review just as if I'd
0:06:16uploaded them from Xcode but I don't
0:06:17have to do that because i don't have
0:06:18xcode i just run this playgrounds file
0:06:20and so dissolve apples worst fear is
0:06:22coming true oh no selector Swizz lling
0:06:25and private api's what will happen
0:06:27nothing will happen it's the answer oh I
0:06:30suppose you could probably you think you
0:06:31could probably you know trigger a bug to
0:06:34you know I guess you could crash the app
0:06:36obviously but uh well crashing
0:06:39playgrounds may not be such an
0:06:40achievement
0:06:40did you bring them could you bring down
0:06:42the whole OS x finding some kind of bug
0:06:46or doing something nasty to it anyway
0:06:48that's what programming is and this is
0:06:50this is fun way for people to try it to
0:06:51see if this little keyboard is worth
0:06:53anything it's kind of weird because
0:06:55you'd want to use it with thumbs like
0:06:57you would on a phone but you can't reach
0:06:59it with both your thumbs on an iPad like
0:07:01that's the whole deal that it is a tiny
0:07:02little floating keyboard that you can
0:07:04move where you want it to where you want
0:07:06to put it so it can be out of the way
0:07:07and not take up so much screen space but
0:07:09you can't type on it with two thumbs
0:07:10there's no maybe he put it in the corner
0:07:13I don't know I did there's no way to use
0:07:16it there's no way to use like you use it
0:07:17on your far although I know a lot of
0:07:18people myself included who frequently
0:07:20type with a single thumb on the on their
0:07:22phone so you ever do that where you're
0:07:24like you're one hand is occupied and
0:07:25you're texting something with a single
0:07:27thumb it's I'm I'm okay added yeah I
0:07:30wish I was there's swipe keyboards I
0:07:32haven't used one in a while in fact I
0:07:33just took that keyboard off my phone
0:07:35because I use it so rarely but the swype
0:07:37style keyboards and I think Google's
0:07:39keyboard G board or whatever it's called
0:07:41supports this the swype style keyboards
0:07:42are very good for one-handed use but I
0:07:45find that I don't use it often enough
0:07:48that I just made it go away I think my
0:07:51heavy have inappropriate thumb friction
0:07:53for a swype keyboard every time I try
0:07:55the mic and I can't find the right
0:07:57balance of enough pressure to be swiping
0:08:00correctly but not too much pressure that
0:08:02I'm like scrubbing my thumb against that
0:08:05I could just I need to tap item I'm not
0:08:08a swiper I remember seeing demos of this
0:08:10keyboard like wow this is awesome look
0:08:11at that little line darting from key to
0:08:12key but then when it comes time for my
0:08:14big meaty thumb to do that this it's
0:08:17it's hopeless so more priority if it
0:08:20works for you but I cannot get the
0:08:21swiping to work for me my word I don't
0:08:24even know what to make about this I we
0:08:26should just move on John can you tell us
0:08:28about Apple and education got a lot of
0:08:30feedback from people basically people in
0:08:32education people who read their teachers
0:08:33or school administrators or people who
0:08:37do I T in education I've tried to pull a
0:08:41few salient points out as a lot of
0:08:42people had you know very complicated
0:08:44detail stories about their one situation
0:08:46but I'm trying to generalize here so one
0:08:49theme i saw in a lot of the email was
0:08:50the recent in recent years pushed for
0:08:53one device per student
0:08:54which was not a thing when any of us
0:08:55were in school like that that not just
0:08:58in the super rich schools but then in
0:08:59all schools the ideal is when we're
0:09:02going to buy any kind of computing
0:09:03hardware for students who want to have
0:09:05one for every single student which was
0:09:07just not an option and you know in our
0:09:08days because you'd have a computer lab
0:09:10and like each classroom it out like one
0:09:11I'm agron to imax or something like but
0:09:13you know one computer for every student
0:09:15that wasn't really feasible when
0:09:17computers came with gigantic CRT's and
0:09:19took up a huge amount of room but now
0:09:21that they're all really small and
0:09:22portable and cheaper and you can pull
0:09:25that off so the one device per student
0:09:27accounts for an increase in overall
0:09:30volume of computing things that schools
0:09:32by which is good for good for google in
0:09:34this case because there there's someone
0:09:36most of them we had one report of
0:09:39technology getting more funding than
0:09:41like less sexy areas like music and arts
0:09:45which are you know parentally on a
0:09:46perennially underfunded because tech is
0:09:49sexy i think one of you brought this up
0:09:51in the last show like the idea that
0:09:52there's money to buy computery stuff
0:09:55because everyone agrees that computers
0:09:57are the future and our kids need
0:09:58computers and like I mean obviously the
0:10:00present now but when we were kids it was
0:10:02like Oh everyone's gonna learn computers
0:10:03because it's the future and if we get
0:10:05computers in our school everyone feels
0:10:06good about even though we're not
0:10:07entirely sure if these computers make
0:10:09education better in any possible way but
0:10:11hey at least kids blow computers there's
0:10:13still some of that in there and that's
0:10:15exciting for all the kids in your school
0:10:17to you know get iPads or get laptops or
0:10:20anything like that and a couple of
0:10:23people tell us that although Apple no
0:10:26longer makes education only models like
0:10:29the big ugly tooth and the emac the emac
0:10:34and stuff like that they do have special
0:10:36configurations of existing devices that
0:10:39like you can't buy in the store but only
0:10:41available for education and they also do
0:10:43a thing where they continue to sell
0:10:45devices in education even if the even
0:10:47after they're no longer for sale to
0:10:48consumers last time I remember them
0:10:50doing that in a big was the ipad 2 it
0:10:52was like gone for everybody but
0:10:53education can still buy it so they're
0:10:56still trying to do what they can to give
0:10:57education there's no real nice way to
0:11:00say this but like the cheaper crappier
0:11:02moms because every even the education
0:11:05only models like how are they different
0:11:07from the regular
0:11:08once they were cheaper which is
0:11:09important but they were also crappier
0:11:10because how do you get them cheaper you
0:11:12make them crappier and it always struck
0:11:14me as like a a weird bargain because do
0:11:18you want to give a ram starved computer
0:11:21to a school is a school the best
0:11:23equipped to wrangle a computer that is
0:11:27constantly running out of RAM especially
0:11:28in the bad old days without it without
0:11:29even any virtual memory on on max or
0:11:31without a good virtual memory system
0:11:33anyway that's less of a concern these
0:11:35days but just two down spec so badly and
0:11:38then put those machines into an
0:11:39environment where the people available
0:11:43to like baby them and coax every ounce
0:11:46of performance out of them like it's not
0:11:47that they don't have time for that much
0:11:50better to give them a computer that sort
0:11:52of works without anyone having to mess
0:11:55with it and if UD content a computer to
0:11:58use car parlance that's the bad
0:12:00situation but that's what they want they
0:12:01want it to be as cheap as possible so
0:12:02Apple would make them very cheap models
0:12:05and now Apple will keep selling new
0:12:06devices long after no person should ever
0:12:08be using them but I guess schools will I
0:12:10mean again I look at that like the
0:12:12laptop cart into my kids elementary
0:12:13school filled with ice books how old are
0:12:16those how old is that you know the white
0:12:17plastic I book that's an old machine
0:12:19like it was a great machine when it was
0:12:21available and apparently it was good for
0:12:23education because they aren't all dead
0:12:25right I don't know how sturdy I mean I'm
0:12:27assuming they're all like terribly
0:12:28yellowed and stained and gross from you
0:12:30know kids touching them because it was
0:12:31plastic but like you know computers last
0:12:35as long as I until they break because
0:12:38why would you get rid of them and they
0:12:39could just continue to try to find
0:12:41something useful to do with them and on
0:12:42that front by the way in terms of tech
0:12:44funding and everything I live in a place
0:12:48full of rich people and we have high
0:12:50taxes and we vote ourselves we have like
0:12:52the laws on the books say we can't raise
0:12:54taxes more than X percent per year and
0:12:56every year they have a vote to say if
0:12:58you really want to raise taxes on
0:12:59yourself vote for this and every year we
0:13:01vote for to like to bypass the thing to
0:13:03raise our taxes even more and despite
0:13:05all that our public schools you go into
0:13:08the moment and you know from the
0:13:10standards of my own childhood they are
0:13:12woefully underfunded in every single
0:13:14aspect large class sizes facilities all
0:13:16falling apart and the vast majority of
0:13:19the computing technology that arrives in
0:13:21the school on the year
0:13:21basis is paid for entirely out of the
0:13:23pocket of parents giving money to the
0:13:26school like voluntarily themselves just
0:13:28funding like that so that's more that
0:13:30says more about the state of public
0:13:32education funding in in our country than
0:13:35it does about things in tech but it's
0:13:38comparing it to my childhood when there
0:13:41was like a computer lab with a small
0:13:42number of computers and like my kids
0:13:44experience in school where there are
0:13:47more computers but that all of them had
0:13:49to be bought by the rich parents of the
0:13:50students who go to the school it
0:13:53certainly doesn't seem like we are in an
0:13:55age where it is accepted that schools
0:13:57will have like one device for student
0:13:59everyone will have at least an
0:14:00elementary school will have computers
0:14:01for everyone available it's like oh
0:14:02you'll have computers if you live in a
0:14:04place where all the parents have enough
0:14:05disposable income to each give hundreds
0:14:06of dollars to the school each year it's
0:14:09the same way we got a new playground by
0:14:10the way Oh collect money from all the
0:14:12rich parents I'm you know we're glad to
0:14:13do it because our kids are going there
0:14:14we have the money we pay for it but it
0:14:16seems like the wrong way to fund public
0:14:19education anyway that's I'm really off
0:14:21topic it's funny I probably have told
0:14:24the story once before but to just
0:14:25reiterate how terrible public education
0:14:27is even in relatively affluent areas I
0:14:30grew up in Fairfield County Connecticut
0:14:32which at the time because of other areas
0:14:35of the county was I believe the most
0:14:37affluent County in the entire country I
0:14:40lived in a very unremarkable part of it
0:14:42so it it was not quite the same for for
0:14:45me but certainly it was a fairly
0:14:48homogeneous reality' v'lay affluent area
0:14:52and every year probably about three
0:14:55quarters of lady through the year our
0:14:56copier paper or Xerox paper was
0:14:58perforated in a very weird way and
0:15:00curiously every single page we got said
0:15:03danbury hospital radiology department on
0:15:06the bottom of it and that's because the
0:15:08only way we could have copier paper the
0:15:09only way we could afford it is if the
0:15:11local hospital donated it to us and it
0:15:14was I guess their leftover that that
0:15:16they had had perforated in a particular
0:15:18way for their particular use but we just
0:15:19rolled with it because what other choice
0:15:21did we have and unlike you guys who are
0:15:23I guess better than than we were at the
0:15:26time we would beg to raise taxes just
0:15:28the tiniest littlest bit to give the
0:15:31schools little breathing room and every
0:15:32time it was shot down and even as a kid
0:15:34it drove me
0:15:35I don't know Marco you're only like a
0:15:38year away from dealing with this right
0:15:39oh man yeah I mean kindergarten trucks
0:15:42this fall for a kid so here we go yeah
0:15:45have you for preschool for daycare heavy
0:15:47as they probably not because that's like
0:15:49privately funded but kindergarten to see
0:15:52if this is like a nationwide thing are
0:15:53just in certain areas I was surprised
0:15:56when I first could enter kindergarten
0:15:57that one of the things that teachers
0:15:59would ask for is paper towels and
0:16:02tissues and things like that yet seem
0:16:04like staples of the classroom like hey
0:16:06parents like it when I was a kid when
0:16:08the teachers asked the parents for
0:16:10anything it was hey parents have your
0:16:11kids bring in some canned food for a
0:16:13food drive for the needy right instead
0:16:16it my experience with my own children
0:16:17it's hey parents please bring in boxes
0:16:20of tissues because if you don't there
0:16:21will be no tissues in the classroom
0:16:23because we have no money for them which
0:16:25is like seriously like I'm these are not
0:16:26frill that's the whole thing like oh we
0:16:28want to buy a fancy new imac every year
0:16:30it's like we need literal tissues for
0:16:33kids with buggery noses in kindergarten
0:16:35and there is no money to pay for them
0:16:36like we can we can put a building that
0:16:38keeps the rain out and we can keep the
0:16:39temperature vaguely within human
0:16:41habitable range but beyond that you know
0:16:44you're on your own so it's time to
0:16:46everyone to pitch in and make sure that
0:16:47we have tissues and paper towels for
0:16:50kids in the class yeah that's a teacher
0:16:52still by a lot more than most people
0:16:55know or expect teacher still by these
0:16:58kind of supplies out of their own pocket
0:16:59it's kind of horrible like it you know
0:17:02teachers all know this and families of
0:17:04teachers all know this but most people
0:17:06don't and it's kind of sad and you know
0:17:09cuz T it's not like teachers are paid a
0:17:11lot to begin with so like you have these
0:17:12jobs that are already not paid you know
0:17:14what they're worth and then you have the
0:17:17teachers having to buy like basic
0:17:18supplies for their classroom out of
0:17:19their own pockets that that seems so
0:17:22incredibly wrong to me yeah but yeah for
0:17:25those that don't know Aaron was a high
0:17:27school teacher in a reasonably affluent
0:17:29area of Richmond until she had Declan
0:17:32and it was expected that at all grade
0:17:36levels every single teacher and so this
0:17:38is every high school teacher you have
0:17:40will send home a list and there was a
0:17:42term for it and for lightning I can't
0:17:44remember what the name of it was but
0:17:46they would send home a list of supplies
0:17:47that every student was
0:17:49to get so every student was expected to
0:17:51bring Erin like one pack of tissues and
0:17:55one set of like whiteboard markers
0:17:57because we didn't have blackboards they
0:17:59had white boards in like a handful of
0:18:02other things and this was not unusual
0:18:03this was expected in our schools as far
0:18:06as I can tell are reasonably well funded
0:18:10I mean this that's not the utter
0:18:11disaster that is happening in many many
0:18:13many parts of the country but even still
0:18:15there they're so they're so big a
0:18:18discrepancy between what teachers need
0:18:21and what teachers can provide and what
0:18:23the schools can provide that they would
0:18:24have the parents bring all this stuff
0:18:25into it was it was totally bananas but
0:18:29it's what they had to do we are
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0:18:34eurocom for more info ero is the
0:18:37solution to mediocre home Wi-Fi coverage
0:18:40because let's face it we have so many
0:18:43Wi-Fi devices these days you know we now
0:18:46we have beyond our computers and phones
0:18:47we have speakers thermostats light bulbs
0:18:50everything all over our smart homes now
0:18:52and Wi-Fi it just doesn't reach most of
0:18:55your home if you only have one regular
0:18:57router euro is designed to change all of
0:19:00this era manufactures a single device
0:19:02it's a small box about the size of an
0:19:04apple TV and it serves as a wireless
0:19:06router and with a dead simple app you
0:19:09can put multiple eros throughout your
0:19:11home they sell them in sets you can just
0:19:13buy one if you want to but you're really
0:19:14getting the BET the biggest benefit if
0:19:15you have two or three the first one
0:19:18replaces your existing router you just
0:19:20plug your ethernet wiring into it from
0:19:21your dsl modem your cable modem and
0:19:23additional eros you just plug them in
0:19:25for a standard power outlet and then
0:19:27they connect wirelessly to each other to
0:19:29form a mesh network that blankets your
0:19:31home in fast reliable Wi-Fi a
0:19:33distributed system like this is way
0:19:36better than just having one router with
0:19:38a whole bunch of antennas on top of it
0:19:39or any kind of traditional range
0:19:41extenders euro is actually better
0:19:43because it creates a separate network to
0:19:46talk to the other euro routers on which
0:19:48is way faster and it doesn't as it
0:19:51doesn't have nearly as much of a speed
0:19:52hit as a typical range extender they
0:19:55recommend one euro per roughly every
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0:19:59the average us home you need probably
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0:20:30to go to their site and get into a promo
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0:20:52at this new low price you can visit
0:20:53eurocom that's eer Oh calm or you can
0:20:56just go to bestbuy or Amazon if you want
0:20:58to do that too and buy them there check
0:20:59it out today ero eer oh thank you very
0:21:02much to ear of responsive it came out I
0:21:09don't know at this point it was probably
0:21:11almost a month ago may it was a couple
0:21:13weeks ago at the very least and it's an
0:21:14ATP bringing cutting-edge news as we
0:21:18always do and this is at apple.com / iOS
0:21:21/ home there'll be a link in the show
0:21:23notes and this is the home kit like demo
0:21:26promo commercially video thing and I
0:21:30watched it once when I first came out I
0:21:31haven't seen it since but the general
0:21:33gist of it was there's a young woman who
0:21:35wakes up and in has her breakfast which
0:21:38is all automated and leaves the house
0:21:39which is all automated and then
0:21:40eventually comes home which is all
0:21:42automated and watches a movie which is
0:21:43all automated and reads in bed which is
0:21:45I guess reading in bed and then turns
0:21:47off for lights which is automated and
0:21:48it's all amazing and perfect in every
0:21:50way and as someone who doesn't really do
0:21:54any of the robots in a cylinder sort of
0:21:58thing this looked pretty impressive to
0:22:01me it looked cool I can't say that I
0:22:03have the Fate I don't know where I would
0:22:05even get a home kit powered thing as far
0:22:08as I'm concerned they're still all but
0:22:10vaporware but apparently they exist
0:22:11because they're all in this lady's house
0:22:13so I don't know there's been a little
0:22:16bit of chatter
0:22:16about this do you want to tell us about
0:22:17a John this is a tweet from Scott
0:22:21McNulty on twitter i'm not sure if he
0:22:23has all these devices i know he's got a
0:22:25million Kindles but i'm not sure if he
0:22:27has all that stuff but anyway he's tweet
0:22:28about it about this new website that i
0:22:30was to promote home kit was nice website
0:22:32but the film to show cases to me how
0:22:34much easier it is to tell LexA to do all
0:22:36the same things because the video shows
0:22:38for the most part the the person
0:22:41touching big rounded rectangles on iOS
0:22:45devices whether they be iPads or phone
0:22:47to do things there is hasty good morning
0:22:50at the very beginning speaking to your
0:22:53phone that's on your nightstand and
0:22:54having it set your thing up for the
0:22:55morning and also later speaking directly
0:22:58into the tiny horrible Apple TV remote
0:23:01to say okay it's movie time to start a
0:23:03movie although I'm not quite sure what
0:23:05it does if you just say it's movie time
0:23:06does it pick a random movie anyway
0:23:07though those are both examples of
0:23:11speaking what I knew I shouldn't have
0:23:18activated that thing that I just said
0:23:20but I did activist on my phone I have
0:23:23never had a telephone enabled until very
0:23:27very recently and now i'm going to this
0:23:33is all stated but that's totally stated
0:23:35anyway why do you turn that on i turned
0:23:40on to see if I turned it on as an aside
0:23:42I turned it on like a week or so ago
0:23:44because I'm like look everyone else has
0:23:45this on on their phone and I've had it
0:23:46all exactly the for exactly the reason
0:23:48you would think you would have it off
0:23:49because I never wanted to accidentally
0:23:51activate but very freaking all this gets
0:23:53to the point of this thing I have a
0:23:56cylinder that listens to me in my home
0:23:57now and I like the idea that i can just
0:24:00say things into the air and I'm like you
0:24:02know what maybe that kind of
0:24:03relationship with my phone is just there
0:24:05waiting for me and I've been too
0:24:06stubborn by keeping this feature off
0:24:08since it was introduced like literally
0:24:09never turning it on never even trying it
0:24:11because it just sounded awful to me so I
0:24:13should really give it a chance and in
0:24:14this week or two that I've had it on I
0:24:17have used it consciously about once and
0:24:20now I have triggered it accidentally
0:24:22once that's the first time I've ever
0:24:23accidentally triggered it because what
0:24:24occasion do I have to say that with my
0:24:25phone nearby but for this for this video
0:24:30showing speaking not to the air but to a
0:24:34device that you know is nearby whether
0:24:36it's your remote in your hand or a phone
0:24:38on your your nightstand is to me
0:24:42different then just yelling into the air
0:24:45not yelling or just speaking into the
0:24:47air the way you do with the cylinder is
0:24:48that all the other things that are in
0:24:50this video and like a lot of using that
0:24:52the home kit thing on on control center
0:24:55the third screen over or the hell it is
0:24:56maybe it's the second I don't know and
0:24:59pressing those rectangles to say I'm
0:25:01here I'm doing this I want to do that
0:25:03change to this mode we're just fine like
0:25:05it's good to have buttons for all this
0:25:06stuff but like Scott McNulty says in his
0:25:09tweet anybody who has cylinders that
0:25:12listened to you when you talk in the air
0:25:13like that is the killer feature to be
0:25:15able to just stroll around and just say
0:25:17something and have it do things whether
0:25:18it's asking you to set a timer or asking
0:25:21what the weather is going to be tomorrow
0:25:22or telling it to turn lights on or off
0:25:25or whatever phrases you enter into the
0:25:27thing like just getting used to be able
0:25:29to say that even for our thing like the
0:25:31stupid stuff asking you how to spell
0:25:32things and multiply and divide numbers
0:25:33like or define things or say something
0:25:36in a particular language I don't have to
0:25:39wonder is my phone in this room will it
0:25:42hear me from that distance will I be
0:25:43able to hear it you know that or
0:25:45multiple phones in the room and they all
0:25:47have that feature whose damn i'm not
0:25:49going to say activated on it will they
0:25:50all wake up and start trying to answer
0:25:51at the same time and everything like
0:25:53that the cylinders simplify all of this
0:25:55and so this video I kind of feel the
0:25:57same way this video basically says hey
0:25:59we at Apple have home automation it's
0:26:01massively less convenient than the
0:26:03cylinders you talk to but it exists and
0:26:05if you like tapping buttons boys it's a
0:26:07thing for you and I feel like they're
0:26:08really they're really missing the boat
0:26:10on this type of home automation and it
0:26:14makes me think once again that as silly
0:26:16as these little cylinders are everyone
0:26:18who gets one ends up liking it for
0:26:22something like they end up liking it
0:26:25more than they thought they would
0:26:26because it certainly seems pretty dumb
0:26:27and even if they only use one tiny
0:26:29corner of the functionality that tiny
0:26:31corner functionality becomes an
0:26:33important part of their life and that I
0:26:35think shows a successful product so I
0:26:37think Apple not having something like
0:26:39this for such a long time either because
0:26:42they're coming up with the super duper
0:26:44awesome one's going to be way better
0:26:45than everybody else's and cost twice as
0:26:46much or because they just thinks it's a
0:26:48dumb idea I think they're missing the
0:26:50boat and this website is like a giant
0:26:52advertisement for them missing the boat
0:26:54yeah because like you know as more
0:26:56people get these devices to like timing
0:26:59to the market is kind of important here
0:27:01there is a significant first mover
0:27:02advantage because once you have you know
0:27:05a couple of these cylinders in your
0:27:07house from one of the brands that sells
0:27:08them if Apple's comes out and is just a
0:27:11little bit better no one's gonna buy it
0:27:13like the only it has to be massively
0:27:16better to get people who have already
0:27:18bought into these systems to convert
0:27:20over and like you know right now I I
0:27:23have the Amazon ecosystem I have a short
0:27:26cylinder of my office and a tall
0:27:27cylinder in the kitchen and you know and
0:27:29when the google home came out I you know
0:27:32I heard what most people said about and
0:27:33I was initially interested but then once
0:27:36everyone once all the reviews came out
0:27:38and basically said like yeah it's fine
0:27:40it's just about as good as the Amazon
0:27:42echo it's not you know massively better
0:27:43or worse it's about the same better in
0:27:46some ways worse than others but about
0:27:47the same overall then I immediately lost
0:27:50any interest in ever trying it because I
0:27:52well you know you know I already have
0:27:54one it's all set up I have all my all my
0:27:56integration set up I'm habituated to
0:27:58saying its commands and and using it to
0:28:02control stuff in my house and play music
0:28:03and stuff so why why would I switch if
0:28:06the other thing is not massively better
0:28:07and so if Apple comes out with their
0:28:10version of the Amazon echo or Google
0:28:12home or whatever else and it's you know
0:28:14Syrian a can like it then it has to be
0:28:18way way better for me to care and for
0:28:20anyone who's bought any of these devices
0:28:21to care and I think the chances of that
0:28:24are just not that great seeing how
0:28:26syriac chua Lee is and has been today in
0:28:29the competitive landscape and and seeing
0:28:31apples recent you know kind of accessory
0:28:34hardware in the two hundred dollar range
0:28:37like the Apple TV or them killing the
0:28:40airport base stations like seeing their
0:28:42efforts in the in this kind of area
0:28:44recently it just doesn't fill me with
0:28:47confidence that if they do one of these
0:28:50things that it's going to be massively
0:28:53better than what we already have so it's
0:28:55probably just going to be
0:28:57roughly the same if not worse and as you
0:29:00said twice as expensive probably so I
0:29:03don't really see that going anywhere i
0:29:04think the typical apple you know the
0:29:08pattern of sitting back and kind of
0:29:10waiting until everyone has like version
0:29:112 and then rolling out the amazing apple
0:29:14one that might not work here i I think
0:29:16that might just be more like what we see
0:29:19with the Apple TV which is some people
0:29:22buy it you know the the really devoted
0:29:24Apple fans buy it but it doesn't have
0:29:27mass market success because it's just
0:29:31you know more expensive than everything
0:29:33else but not better enough and possibly
0:29:35even not better the one thing by all
0:29:37accounts that Apple is doing better than
0:29:39its competitors is security like being
0:29:42very careful but really a partner with
0:29:43and having very strict requirements on
0:29:45security and privacy surely they are
0:29:47better on privacy than Google and Amazon
0:29:49are although there was that case where
0:29:52was some some law enforcement agency was
0:29:55trying to subpoena audio recordings from
0:29:56Amazon echo or something in Amazon I
0:29:59think this was Amazon did fight them on
0:30:00it and said no you can't have our stuff
0:30:01and they're trying to like get get that
0:30:03audio classified in a way that it makes
0:30:05it not available without a warrant and
0:30:07all these other things right so but
0:30:09there are a lot of security implications
0:30:10to all these devices which at this point
0:30:12you just have to accept that you are
0:30:14compromising security in some way by
0:30:17using any of these things and apple with
0:30:20home kit seems to be trying to avoid
0:30:24silly situations where a vendor
0:30:26integrates with you and does something
0:30:28extremely lacks when it comes to
0:30:32security and you know has some obvious
0:30:34flaw that either makes devices in your
0:30:35houses into botnets or into spy devices
0:30:37and stuff like that and that's good like
0:30:41good in general with Apple tends to be
0:30:42good on security and privacy but so far
0:30:45consumers have shown no willingness to
0:30:49value privacy in their purchase
0:30:51decisions like that is not a
0:30:53differentiating not enough of a
0:30:55differentiating factor you know even
0:30:58even in the phone space like Apple is is
0:31:00very good on privacy and security with
0:31:02its phones but I don't think that's why
0:31:03people are buying iphones like they're
0:31:04buying because they like iphones and
0:31:05it's a nice to have and it's a perkin or
0:31:07whatever but like people are voting with
0:31:09their wallets
0:31:10by buying you name it light bulbs
0:31:13television cylinders that you talk to
0:31:15with terrible security and privacy that
0:31:17like literally intentionally spying you
0:31:20record everything you say and doing then
0:31:21then sell it to people and everyone's
0:31:23like oh well with our TV works looks
0:31:25nice you know like so it's not that
0:31:27that's how the market is working right
0:31:29now and what people can't do if people
0:31:32don't value don't value it do we need to
0:31:33change something for people to value it
0:31:35do we need a new generation of people in
0:31:37the aftermath of some terrible
0:31:38privacy-related thing to deal with this
0:31:41are we are we just happy to leave it to
0:31:42the legal system say like well people
0:31:44get hacked and hacking is illegal and if
0:31:47it happens you know someone will stop
0:31:48them someone someone but blah blah blah
0:31:50Big Sky theory no one cares about what
0:31:52I'm doing anyway so I'll just buy this
0:31:53vizio tv and get spied on or whatever it
0:31:56is now and it's true it's true of the
0:31:58Google cylinder that i have is probably
0:31:59true of the Amazon ones and it's you
0:32:01know weeks we accept it for the
0:32:03trade-offs even Marco famous paranoid
0:32:06privacy advocate who won't put pre
0:32:08compiled binaries into his application
0:32:09is willing to trade a devices in his
0:32:13house constantly recording him for the
0:32:14convenience of saying something I was
0:32:15like to go out at night well and to be
0:32:17fair I'm that I'm risking my own
0:32:19personal privacy with with that one and
0:32:22then you know that's very different from
0:32:23risking the privacy of my entire
0:32:26customer base of my hat you're trading
0:32:28your trading the thing that you can
0:32:29trade was like it seems like a fair
0:32:31trade to you're like well normally cares
0:32:32about me and whatever and I get this
0:32:34convenience and you weigh them and you
0:32:36like well convene twins in this case
0:32:37right you know I don't have any of these
0:32:41devices in the house like I said earlier
0:32:42and have only interacted with them a
0:32:45couple of times and I don't think I get
0:32:50it like it's neat I suppose but I don't
0:32:54know I don't die this is like the old
0:32:56man portion of the show and I'm
0:32:57surprised took us this long to get here
0:32:59but I don't really see how getting up in
0:33:01walking a few cases to turn away so
0:33:04terrible like and I know I know that
0:33:06makes me know man i know that makes me
0:33:07backwards and ridiculous i understand
0:33:09you can't write a letter on a piece of
0:33:11paper and wine to the mailbox is the
0:33:13mailbox too far away you gotta have this
0:33:15electronic messages i know i completely
0:33:18agree with you and if the roles were
0:33:20reversed I would be saying the exact
0:33:21same thing to you like it
0:33:23this I know I say this a lot and I'm
0:33:25always wrong and so I'm sure this is
0:33:26another time but this fills a need that
0:33:28I don't feel like I have fast-forward to
0:33:30six months from now gonna have probably
0:33:32a an Amazon cylinder Google cylinder
0:33:35maybe even an apple cylinder and I'll
0:33:37love all of them their own special way
0:33:39there'll be my mind my children at that
0:33:41point but sitting here now I just
0:33:43there's no integration there's no thing
0:33:47that I that I can see today that makes
0:33:51me want one of them in and I bet you
0:33:53anything if one showed up at the house I
0:33:55would end up loving it but it's just
0:33:57it's even this video I watched and
0:34:00thought well yeah that's cool but I
0:34:02don't it's not it's solving problems I
0:34:04don't think I have it's like any of
0:34:06those things where you don't know you
0:34:08have the need until you have it and it's
0:34:09not going to be like a life-changing
0:34:10thing like the iPhone was like you know
0:34:13but but I feel like everyone has one
0:34:15like we use our as less than I thought I
0:34:16would because basically I was betting on
0:34:18Google making their product better
0:34:20faster than they actually are so oh well
0:34:22better me if only you had friends who
0:34:24told you beforehand to pick the other
0:34:26one i don't think i would use the other
0:34:28one anymore because i think it's
0:34:30basically a wash at this point but
0:34:32anyway apparently here's here's yeah you
0:34:35know because it does it is really good
0:34:37at the things that it does do but
0:34:39eventually once you realize these things
0:34:41are there and start to get into the
0:34:43mindset what was it like we're sitting
0:34:46down ours is it within earshot when we
0:34:48sit down to dinner and we're sitting
0:34:50about dinner trying to think of talking
0:34:53about some songs someone heard and
0:34:54because i subscribed to google play
0:34:56music another reason by the way that i
0:34:57wouldn't want an apple one is that i
0:34:59would it would make me have to subscribe
0:35:01to Apple music to do what I'm about to
0:35:03describe we're having some discussion
0:35:05about a song and I can just say into the
0:35:07air I can just request into the air for
0:35:08that song to be played almost any song
0:35:10that could be played and it just starts
0:35:13playing it because we were having a
0:35:15discussion of what the lyrics for and
0:35:16how it sounds and the kids wanted to
0:35:17hear it and you know what has to get up
0:35:18from the table or pull out their phone
0:35:20and try to search for the song I just
0:35:22say something into the air before you
0:35:23even get your phone out of your pocket
0:35:24and the song is playing and that is a
0:35:27weird future world thing that I think is
0:35:30awesome and it is it a big deal and is
0:35:32it a need no it's not but for the
0:35:34hundred and ten dollars or whatever I
0:35:36pay for the stupid cylinder to be able
0:35:37to say words into the air and have a
0:35:39song that I requested play immediately I
0:35:40think that's like worth the price of
0:35:42entry even if I only do that once every
0:35:45week and a half and the rest of time my
0:35:47kids are just asking how to say things
0:35:48in foreign languages like this is all
0:35:49this is all bonus now it's not again not
0:35:52a life-changing thing but once you get
0:35:55used to the idea that something is
0:35:56constantly singing your house and can
0:35:58conceivably do things that you find
0:35:59useful it's hard to go back to the idea
0:36:03that nothing is listening and you have
0:36:04to actually pick something up and hit it
0:36:06with your fingers because there is a big
0:36:08difference in how it feels to do
0:36:10something it's kind of like difference
0:36:12in how it feels to pull out your phone
0:36:14and look something up versus how it feel
0:36:15to get in your car and drive to the
0:36:16library and look something up and now
0:36:18this is you know it's interesting it's
0:36:20like you know I it's an exponential type
0:36:23thing where like obviously library on is
0:36:24way longer than the looking on the phone
0:36:27but now like how much how much longer is
0:36:29saying something into the air to your
0:36:31phone it's probably a couple seconds
0:36:33couple minute but man feels it feels so
0:36:36different and you just can't go back to
0:36:39the other way and if you wanted to go
0:36:40home full home automation everything and
0:36:42cook stuff up to it and do all stuff
0:36:44like that that feel like you're starting
0:36:46to get into tech gadget land at that
0:36:47point but but that can be awesome too
0:36:49especially if it's like a hobby to have
0:36:50a house where you can just say things
0:36:51and have it do stuff and work with your
0:36:53rhythms there's I think these devices
0:36:56can be enjoyed at many levels and as we
0:36:58said last time we discussed this most
0:37:00importantly they're all freaking cheap
0:37:02in the grand scheme of things like
0:37:03they're not three dollars but they're
0:37:05also not two thousand dollars like a new
0:37:06macbook right you can get one of these
0:37:09you can buy all of these you can put
0:37:10them up what is the dot one what is the
0:37:12short sale under marcos like it's like
0:37:1340 bucks is 40 bucks yeah it's really
0:37:16cheap you can get one of these things
0:37:18you know on a whim just to see if you
0:37:20might like it and throw it somewhere and
0:37:22if you never use it you're like oh well
0:37:24it's forty dollars it's like a nice meal
0:37:26for one person like whatever you know to
0:37:29answer your earlier question case like
0:37:31you know you don't see what you know why
0:37:33it would be a big deal to have faster
0:37:34light switches or something the answer
0:37:36is that there's there's like one thing
0:37:39that gets most owners in the door and
0:37:42four for most people i've talked to and
0:37:45been around and seen be converted
0:37:46including myself that one thing is music
0:37:49you know
0:37:49with John said like it really isn't
0:37:51awesome to be able to just say Alexa
0:37:53play fish and have that just work for
0:37:57all of our lives on purpose in terrible
0:37:59terrible troll not the first time that
0:38:01or you know and you can say you know hey
0:38:03cylinder play rock music from the 90's
0:38:06or like there are it's just really
0:38:08really nice to have that like there's a
0:38:12reason why like places like Sonos or
0:38:15having trouble now like anything that is
0:38:17involved in the high-end audio scene for
0:38:21tech geeks that is not voice controlled
0:38:23as having problems right now because
0:38:25it's once once you get into voice
0:38:27control music it is so awesome
0:38:30especially like when you know if you're
0:38:31having like friends over for dinner or
0:38:33something else and you just have it
0:38:34playing and you can just anybody can
0:38:36just say you know next song or pause or
0:38:38volume up whatever else and our people
0:38:40can call out their own request like it's
0:38:42fun it becomes a cool a pretty cool
0:38:44thing the the echo is not a great
0:38:46speaker it's only an okay speaker
0:38:49literally like in my house it is sitting
0:38:50right next to a sonos speaker that is
0:38:52way way better sounding and the sonos
0:38:55speaker almost never gets used anymore
0:38:57because it is just so much more
0:38:59convenient to use the echo for music
0:39:01purposes and so anyway you know what
0:39:03gets someone in is usually one cool
0:39:06thing that they like see or hear about
0:39:08and they're like oh my god I want it for
0:39:09that but then once you already have the
0:39:12cylinder in your house and set up and
0:39:13everything then when you know Black
0:39:15Friday comes around and the switchable
0:39:17out let's go on sale for like twenty
0:39:19bucks you're like hey let me try one of
0:39:21those you know and then and then we'll
0:39:23ever need any try one really go that's
0:39:24that ends up like there's that one lamp
0:39:26it's the total other side of the room
0:39:28and i turn it off every night and I ever
0:39:30not have to walk over there and turn it
0:39:31off and what if I didn't have to walk
0:39:33over there I'd save like five seconds a
0:39:35night and that could add up and then
0:39:37next time they're on sale you get three
0:39:39or four more of them because you realize
0:39:40how useful they are and then all of a
0:39:42sudden you can say I'll turn off
0:39:43everything and all of your lights turn
0:39:45off and when you're going up to bed and
0:39:47you have a glass of water in one hand
0:39:49and maybe some laundry or a dog in the
0:39:51other hand and you don't have any hands
0:39:53to hit all the light switches before you
0:39:54go upstairs you can just say hey turn
0:39:55off everything and five things turn off
0:39:58at once and you could walk upstairs and
0:40:00it becomes pretty cool and so it's that
0:40:03how you get into this it's it is not
0:40:05that you can't walk over and hit a light
0:40:07switch but once you have one of these
0:40:10technologies for some other reason like
0:40:12music then it's and you know as all the
0:40:15like you know home automation things
0:40:17just start getting really cheaper you
0:40:19know like that you can you can go on
0:40:21going at these switch box for twenty
0:40:22bucks whatever or you can have other
0:40:24integration through web services through
0:40:26like if 210 various services like that
0:40:28and you know warm up your car or you can
0:40:31you Casey you have your garage door
0:40:33thing you can like open and close your
0:40:34garage door by voice like once you are
0:40:37in the system for some other compelling
0:40:39reason like music you will start having
0:40:41these other things trickle in and you'll
0:40:43be like wait a minute this is kind of
0:40:44awesome and none of its necessary like
0:40:47you could operate your house without
0:40:49these things but once you get into that
0:40:51once you have have a taste of this it's
0:40:54just really nice again it's not it's not
0:40:57a must-have we can all send post with
0:40:59send letters to the post office if we
0:41:01want to but once you have something
0:41:04nicer it is pretty great yeah it's funny
0:41:07you bring up but both you bring up the
0:41:09music thing because when i tried apple
0:41:12music during the free trial when it
0:41:14first came out the one thing I I deeply
0:41:18missed about Apple music was being able
0:41:20to say to siri you know play MuteMath or
0:41:24whatever the case may be and and just
0:41:26have it happen and that was super cool
0:41:29and it was almost enough to get me to
0:41:32pay for Apple music rather than Spotify
0:41:33which I prefer for reasons that are
0:41:35irrelevant but all the other things that
0:41:38I preferred about spot if I were enough
0:41:39to keep me away away from Apple music
0:41:41and and I guess that's the difference is
0:41:44with the garage door opener as an
0:41:45example I immediately understood why
0:41:48having an internet-connected garage door
0:41:51opener could immediately improve or
0:41:54improve may be a strong word but but I
0:41:56can't think of a better one improved my
0:41:58life where is the cylinders I don't
0:42:01doubt that they would make things better
0:42:02in all the ways you described but
0:42:04there's less of a visceral tangible need
0:42:07that I can see sitting here now and I'm
0:42:09sure the time will come that I will get
0:42:11one and i'm sure i'll be on this show
0:42:12saying by god what was i thinking of
0:42:14course I wanted this but sitting here
0:42:16now ignorant
0:42:17is less wow you know it does take it
0:42:22does take some time to actually figure
0:42:24out what do you think is going to be
0:42:25good for after you just play with it and
0:42:27find the limits of the thing and I think
0:42:30it really it really a situation like
0:42:32it's not it's not as if you have to like
0:42:34every day I'm going to do this thing and
0:42:36I'm going to use this thing to do the
0:42:37thing like getting a new like device
0:42:39into your life and incorporating into
0:42:40subtasks you have to do like for me that
0:42:42that's not how I experience of having
0:42:44this thing it's more like developing and
0:42:47awareness that this thing is there so
0:42:48that when the need comes up that you
0:42:50reflexively satisfy in other ways
0:42:53eventually you come to remember I don't
0:42:56have to do that I can just say this
0:42:58question into the air and get an answer
0:42:59even if it's like dividing two numbers
0:43:01or converting like teaspoons into cups
0:43:05or whatever like all those things are
0:43:08things I've done my whole life and I go
0:43:10I don't remember the convergence let me
0:43:11check or whatever and you can always
0:43:12like pick up your phone or ask someone
0:43:15in the house you think knows the
0:43:16conversion or you know all these other
0:43:18the ways you have to solve this problem
0:43:20eventually what the most important thing
0:43:23you need to have is it you know a deep
0:43:26grain instinctive awareness that I can
0:43:29say this thing into the air and get an
0:43:30answer right and that's the hardest part
0:43:32because you will find yourself pulling
0:43:34out your phone and typing into Google
0:43:36you know how many teaspoons in a cup and
0:43:39you'll do that and maybe do that without
0:43:41even realizing you could have just asked
0:43:43that question but eventually it sinks in
0:43:44it sinks in after some incidents of like
0:43:46arguing about the lyrics to the song
0:43:48over dinner and realizing we can settle
0:43:49this in 30 seconds I could just request
0:43:51that song by title it will immediately
0:43:52start playing or we can all listen to it
0:43:54together right or not remembering who
0:43:57you know what year someone was born or
0:43:59who what album this thing was on or what
0:44:01it like we could all take out her phones
0:44:03look it up we all know how to do that
0:44:04it's like you could do that or you could
0:44:06just like put a little trigger phrase
0:44:09that I'm not going to say in front of
0:44:10that same question you were just asking
0:44:12each other and instantly get some kind
0:44:14of answer and it can go too far where
0:44:17you know we have the recent rash of the
0:44:19Google what is it the Google answer
0:44:21thing where it tries to answer the
0:44:22question definitively the top of search
0:44:23results and it just throws on bogus
0:44:25stuff that has no foundation and truth
0:44:27right and all these devices again there
0:44:29are security concerns and priorities
0:44:30urns and I
0:44:31thing but it is a glimpse of the as yet
0:44:34unperfect it unrealized future and like
0:44:38all gadget tech geeks we all like to
0:44:40sort of see what that future is going to
0:44:42be like and try living it even if it is
0:44:44pretty rough at this point just because
0:44:46we think there's value in it and
0:44:48whatever form it takes in the future I
0:44:50think this type of renter face has
0:44:52proved it's worth that it has to be part
0:44:55of the various ways we interact with
0:44:58technology and networks right all the
0:45:00other ones have proved their worth and
0:45:01they're not going to go away and be
0:45:02completely replace with this but this I
0:45:04feel like has definitively proved it's
0:45:06worth it's just a question of how it
0:45:08fits in with all the other ways that we
0:45:10you know use computing devices and
0:45:12connected networks and stuff we're
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0:47:00YouTube also almost a month ago now it
0:47:04has announced YouTube TV which means for
0:47:08thirty-five dollars a month subscribers
0:47:10get all four major networks ABC CBS fox
0:47:12and NBC and around 30 of the biggest
0:47:14cable channels and that price covers six
0:47:17accounts so each member of the house can
0:47:19have a personalized account that offers
0:47:21recommendations tuned to their tastes
0:47:23i'm reading mostly from the Verge's
0:47:25coverage of this it will be missing
0:47:27channels from Viacom including big names
0:47:29like Comedy Central and MTV it also
0:47:30won't have programming from Turner which
0:47:32means you won't get CNN TBS TNT AMC
0:47:35discovery and AME but this as someone
0:47:39who is not really looking to cut the
0:47:40cord this does sound pretty compelling
0:47:42to me I don't really have a good feel
0:47:45for what the landscape is for cord
0:47:47cutters because I'm not even really
0:47:50considering it at the moment but this
0:47:52sounds really good Marco I know you're
0:47:53not really that into broadcast TV but I
0:47:56believe you've cut the cord so are you
0:47:58interested in this at all yeah I mean I
0:48:00the last time I had cable was about 10
0:48:03years ago and I don't say this to like
0:48:05to super bragging the hipster way
0:48:07possible just a fact I've you know since
0:48:12then I've gotten into the habit of just
0:48:14not having these TV channels I do get
0:48:18and buy TV content in other ways like I
0:48:21like through itunes and stuff although
0:48:22honestly I cannot leave Apple TV
0:48:26purchasing fast enough like as as Top
0:48:30Chef wrapped up one more season I still
0:48:33can't believe how bad buying TV series
0:48:36on apple TV is and then watching them
0:48:39and all the different things that don't
0:48:41work or that work poorly or that
0:48:43actually spoil the show like the
0:48:45auto-generated thumbnails of the Last
0:48:47Chance kitchen but you know I've kind of
0:48:51gotten into the world now of not having
0:48:53cable and so to to buy access to all
0:48:57these channels to me
0:48:59doesn't really sound that appealing
0:49:00because I I kind of don't need them
0:49:02anymore or I've trained myself not to
0:49:04have them anymore so the idea of buying
0:49:07access to all these things so I can like
0:49:09watch broadcast TV and sports not
0:49:12although with a bunch of asterisks and
0:49:13stuff like that it is advertising a a
0:49:16collection of services that I have gone
0:49:19without for 10 years that i have already
0:49:21like I I this is not something i really
0:49:23am that excited about for myself i do
0:49:26think it is it is a good idea for people
0:49:28who have been maintaining a cable
0:49:30subscription all this time for one of
0:49:32these things or for multiple these
0:49:34things like lots of people you know have
0:49:37like for example sports fans like most a
0:49:39lot of sports fan or people who just
0:49:41like to watch like live news or we like
0:49:44to watch some shows that are one more
0:49:45than one of these networks that just
0:49:47aren't available easily or affordably
0:49:49elsewhere online at least legally so for
0:49:53those people this is a great this is you
0:49:55know a good good idea it seems like a
0:49:57pretty reasonable price this at 35 bucks
0:49:59a month for all this stuff now i'm
0:50:01curious what what form does this take is
0:50:03it is it like just a TV stream and
0:50:06therefore we have to like skip
0:50:07commercials and crap or is it more like
0:50:08on-demand where you just pick what you
0:50:10want to watch and there's no commercials
0:50:11i'm not sure the way i read this was
0:50:15it's that it would basically exist
0:50:18within YouTube but I could have that
0:50:20dreadfully wrong I'm not entirely sure
0:50:22it's like they may they make mention of
0:50:24things like a DVR style of recording
0:50:26with unlimited storage space in Google's
0:50:28cloud and the ability to skip over ads
0:50:30so the kind of sounds like it's more
0:50:32like watching a broadcast and you just
0:50:34you know it's kind of like with a
0:50:36broadcast with DVR style controls but
0:50:38you'd still have to like fast-forward
0:50:40through the ads so it's kind of weird to
0:50:42see youtube as the company sort of I
0:50:46don't know if they're very first out of
0:50:47the gate but one of the first of the big
0:50:49names to do what everyone's been
0:50:50referring to was a this is the skinny
0:50:53bundle thing where it's a subset of the
0:50:57stuff that you can buy in cable with the
0:50:58idea that people who pay for cable
0:51:00nobody wants all those channels like
0:51:02everyone just wants a subset of it so if
0:51:04we could sell you a subset of it for a
0:51:06cheaper price then that would be a more
0:51:09desirable product for you and we could
0:51:11get you on down
0:51:12platform and stop you paying for cable
0:51:14or stop you bang forget stop you paying
0:51:16for television programming for cable
0:51:18because once again the whole cord cutter
0:51:20thing makes about as much sense as
0:51:21debating which parts of a game engine
0:51:24are done in software and hardware
0:51:25doesn't really mean anything when you
0:51:27look at the phrasing because oh I'm
0:51:29cutting the cord I'm going to get all my
0:51:30video content over a cable it comes to
0:51:32my house the delivers data but doesn't
0:51:35count because his internet and not cable
0:51:37television and all its you know totally
0:51:39different thing anyway Comcast would
0:51:41still sell you your internet access or
0:51:43verizon or whoever sell your internet
0:51:45access but you just like no thanks I
0:51:46don't want to pay for your cable
0:51:48television bundle I just want the
0:51:50Internet I'll pay you for that and then
0:51:52over the Internet I will get things like
0:51:55YouTube TV but anyway it's ironic that
0:51:56YouTube is doing it because as far as my
0:51:59children are concerned YouTube is
0:52:01television then they barely watch
0:52:04television anymore they watch youtube on
0:52:07their iOS devices because that's what
0:52:09they have if they didn't they were
0:52:10watching anything else television like I
0:52:12don't think they know what ABC CBS fox
0:52:15and NBC are I don't think they recognize
0:52:17those sequence of three letters if we
0:52:19put them in sequence and say what are
0:52:20these three letters they would not be
0:52:22able to identify they have no idea like
0:52:25they watch they watch enough television
0:52:26they sure I've seen enough television
0:52:27shows in their life but their entire
0:52:29enterprise of television a is through my
0:52:30tivo so there is no again trying to
0:52:32trying to explain to them or young
0:52:34children the concept of live television
0:52:36is extremely difficult the mud that the
0:52:39task of modern parenting right to
0:52:41explain to your eggs your toddler what
0:52:43live television is and why you can't
0:52:45like fast-forward or pause or anything
0:52:47like that like no this is happening now
0:52:49this is live like or we can't watch this
0:52:51because it hasn't aired yet like it's
0:52:53going to come on at seven it's like what
0:52:55are you even saying that I don't
0:52:56understand like I don't understand these
0:52:58words at your like and that they've I
0:53:00know dad let me explain it to you you
0:53:02just go like this and you tap over here
0:53:04and but just why isn't it working i
0:53:05think it's broken like no it hasn't
0:53:07hasn't aired yet it's difficult thing to
0:53:10explain right so youtube it seems has
0:53:14the future locked up and yet they are
0:53:16the ones out of the gate to say we're
0:53:17going to try to get the old by giving
0:53:19them something that makes them feel more
0:53:20comfortable and you pay us thirty-five
0:53:21dollars a month
0:53:22we will resell you this content with a
0:53:25nice kind of interface that makes it
0:53:26look like you have a tivo but you don't
0:53:27and you know some some fashion of on
0:53:31demand type stuff and also with the you
0:53:33know ad-skipping and so on and so forth
0:53:34but like all these deals like the reason
0:53:36it has always been said that Apple
0:53:38hasn't had this deal as it has it had a
0:53:40deal like this despite them pursuing it
0:53:42for many years now is they could never
0:53:43they can never get no presumably
0:53:46according to Apple satisfaction an
0:53:48arrangement of content in price that
0:53:51they did Apple like that Apple said yes
0:53:54that's what we want to go to market with
0:53:55so they've come to market with nothing
0:53:57and all these things if you look at them
0:54:00it's like oh well you got all this stuff
0:54:01we don't have all that stuff is that is
0:54:02this the right price and the combination
0:54:04of content like if you got this and
0:54:07you'll be like I'm going to replace
0:54:07cable and then you just realize like
0:54:09that I'm trying to think of a show it's
0:54:11on AMC like madmen used to be what son
0:54:13AMC now the Americans is the Americans
0:54:16FX anyway if if you get this and you're
0:54:19like this will be just like cable we can
0:54:20just pick the channels we want but you
0:54:22realize you can't get some of these
0:54:23things at any price Oh The Walking Dead
0:54:26is an AMC better call Saul you realize
0:54:30you can't get them at any price that
0:54:31could be a deal breaker if you know it's
0:54:33like well I guess we'll just stick with
0:54:34cable because cable despite the fact
0:54:36that cable is making you pay like you
0:54:37know three dollars a month for ESPN that
0:54:39you never watch it over the hell the
0:54:40number is these days you have access to
0:54:43everything essentially those cables and
0:54:45mature industry and everything is resold
0:54:46through cable subscriptions and if
0:54:49you're willing to pay enough money you
0:54:50can get everything to get a skinny
0:54:52bundle I okay well I'll skinny bundle
0:54:55for this and then I will just pay on
0:54:57itunes for the walking dead the day
0:54:59after it comes out or I'll watch Game of
0:55:01Thrones on HBO Go or now and hope that
0:55:04doesn't get overwhelmed by people and
0:55:05like that's the other thing with these
0:55:06skinny bundles you can be really sad if
0:55:08Game of Thrones premiers and you can't
0:55:10watch it because of some networking
0:55:11thing whereas if you had cable it would
0:55:12have quote-unquote just worked right
0:55:13because it's broadcast versus you know
0:55:16database television which has all the
0:55:18problems of any you know database
0:55:20solution so I don't know if they're
0:55:25striking the right balance and honestly
0:55:26I think YouTube shouldn't care that much
0:55:28of the striking the right balance
0:55:29because they sure as heck seem to be the
0:55:31future of television as far as any of my
0:55:32children are concerned and honestly I'm
0:55:34watching more YouTube then
0:55:36used to like this thing here you know
0:55:38like as in subscribing to channels and
0:55:40looking for content to come on them so
0:55:44they I think this is a good move for you
0:55:47to bits like we are already at the
0:55:48forefront of this new thing and you know
0:55:50we can scrape up some of those old
0:55:51things and they're not so picky about oh
0:55:53we can't we can't go to market with a
0:55:54skinny bundle because not enough people
0:55:56will buy it because it doesn't have CNN
0:55:57and TBS like or a knee and AMC or
0:56:00whatever like they're just like whatever
0:56:01we'll go for it we'll see how it goes if
0:56:03it doesn't whatever we're the future
0:56:04will be fine whereas Apple is still
0:56:07wedding for this beautiful perfect deal
0:56:08that has extremely low prices and the
0:56:11right amount of control for Apple and
0:56:13can provide the right experience and so
0:56:14they just have nothing they just have
0:56:15nothing to offer that this TV app that
0:56:17you know looks like it's a ghost town
0:56:19and you can kind of see a glimmer of
0:56:21what it was supposed to be but what it
0:56:23is now is nothing compared to YouTube
0:56:25nothing compared to you tube TV so
0:56:26apples is not doing well here and
0:56:29Netflix and Amazon and YouTube
0:56:32definitely seem to be the future of
0:56:35video content for an entire generation
0:56:36of people whether they be you know young
0:56:38children or Millennials or whatever who
0:56:40just accept that you know the content
0:56:44they want probably is an on TV unless
0:56:48it's you know live news or sports stuff
0:56:50like that and even that like those will
0:56:51be the last ones to come over but the
0:56:53future looks dim for the old model of
0:56:56television in all aspects and these
0:56:59skinny bundles entirely seem like a
0:57:00transitional thing to get people over
0:57:03the hump to the new system and the more
0:57:06of them that are out there the more
0:57:07people that pull over and like Marco
0:57:09eventually like once you do it and
0:57:11realize the world doesn't come to an end
0:57:12and you just get used to that kind of
0:57:14lifestyle and accept whatever the
0:57:16limitations may be during the
0:57:17transitional period it's hard to go back
0:57:18like you rarely hear about people who
0:57:21cut the cord try it for a year and then
0:57:22immediately go back I mean maybe they do
0:57:25if there's a disagreement in the house
0:57:26about the how important local live
0:57:29sports are and and a misprediction of
0:57:32what a blackout would really mean to
0:57:33your life but beyond that I feel like
0:57:35the people who unsubscribe from cable
0:57:38television especially in tech nerd
0:57:40circles they find alternate arrangements
0:57:44and are happy with it eventually like
0:57:46that it that it is a successful
0:57:48transition it's kind of like the people
0:57:49by the sill
0:57:50there's you're not quite sure what
0:57:51they're gonna work out but you get it
0:57:52and in the end it's better than you
0:57:53thought it would be one thing that that
0:57:56is somewhat appealing to me about these
0:57:57new digital based services though is
0:58:00that there's no equipment and that you
0:58:04could probably pretty easily start and
0:58:06stop your service in the past like if
0:58:09there was like a big event of some kind
0:58:11like like watching you know a
0:58:13presidential election return or you know
0:58:16a really important news event or a
0:58:18really important TV show that I was
0:58:19super into it I couldn't get any other
0:58:21way like it would be kind of a bummer to
0:58:23not have cable for brief periods in my
0:58:26life and I would occasionally think
0:58:28maybe we should just get it again and
0:58:30just never use it and but like the idea
0:58:33of having to like call up a local cable
0:58:36company or whatever and have them you
0:58:38know schedule an appointment and have
0:58:40them come to the house during this
0:58:41eight-hour window that usually becomes
0:58:43more than that and they come at the very
0:58:44end of it except for that one time where
0:58:46they came early so you can't really plan
0:58:47for it and then they install this giant
0:58:50box that may or may not work if you want
0:58:52any kind of DVR functionality you need
0:58:54to deal with either another giant box
0:58:56like the Syracuse a method or you just
0:58:58deal with their crappy giant box but
0:59:00their d crappy TV are you learn all the
0:59:01controls all over again you get another
0:59:03remote hanging on the house this giant
0:59:05box and this you know all this overhead
0:59:08of starting and then later stopping that
0:59:11service like you want to stop that
0:59:12serves you gotta call them on the phone
0:59:14which I will do quite a lot to avoid
0:59:16upon the phone talk to some customer
0:59:19service rep convince this in the case of
0:59:22some of these morally bankrupt companies
0:59:24like Comcast convince them to please for
0:59:27the love of God let you cancel your
0:59:28service which you may or may not succeed
0:59:30at that Mayor that may or may not take a
0:59:33very long time to convince them then
0:59:35have that whole process in Reverse
0:59:37scheduling dealing with the equipment
0:59:39whether you like I like drop it off
0:59:41somewhere or have them come pick it up
0:59:43and disconnect the wire like it's a big
0:59:45pain in the butt and then they probably
0:59:46have restrictions on like how often you
0:59:48can sign up it or disconnect your
0:59:50service again or like you know and then
0:59:53there's all this basically BS involved
0:59:56in starting and stopping cable TV
0:59:59service
0:59:59service
1:00:00press so to have these internet based
1:00:02ones where it's probably just like you
1:00:05know clicking a few buttons and entering
1:00:07credit card into the YouTube app and
1:00:08then when you want to stop it you you
1:00:10know go go through some screens and
1:00:13there's probably an all-digital way to
1:00:14do it where you probably want to talk to
1:00:15anybody on the phone that is actually
1:00:18probably a really good thing for the
1:00:19cable industry it's not good in the
1:00:21sense that it becomes easier to stop
1:00:23your service but I think it is good in
1:00:25that for people like me who don't have
1:00:28it most of the time but occasionally
1:00:30have some reason why we might want it I
1:00:32think you're more likely to win people
1:00:34like us over because the barrier to
1:00:35entry is now lower than it was before so
1:00:38that i think is a big new good feature
1:00:42of this however that being said we know
1:00:45what john said about the channel
1:00:46availability is a big deal it includes
1:00:49like you know the big broncos networks
1:00:50but for 35 bucks a month that's like a
1:00:52basic cable plan and it does not include
1:00:54Comedy Central MTV CNN TBS TNT AMC any
1:00:59Discovery it's like this huge list of
1:01:02channels that come in pretty much every
1:01:05standard cable bundle in the US for like
1:01:0720 years and they don't come with this
1:01:10and that kind of thing like in the
1:01:14regular cable market like weather when
1:01:16you're like you know choosing between
1:01:17like in one of the various satellite
1:01:20companies like like directv or dish
1:01:21whatever if you have like if you choose
1:01:24between like that or like Comcast your
1:01:25files or whatever your local cable thing
1:01:27is oftentimes like one of these networks
1:01:31will be missing from one of these
1:01:32services and that'll be enough to get
1:01:34people to choose the other one so to
1:01:36have this many things missing that's
1:01:39really a pretty big problem I think so
1:01:43this specific service at the specific
1:01:45time with this specific set of deals
1:01:47that they made having such limited
1:01:50channel options that's gonna really hurt
1:01:52them I think but the idea of this kind
1:01:55of bundle i think is strong if anybody
1:01:59can get all the deals in place or even
1:02:01just some of the deals so let's just get
1:02:03more than what youtube got we were
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1:03:13betterment investing made better now we
1:03:19enter the hardware portion of the
1:03:22program so I don't know which one of you
1:03:26wants to kick this off but Intel is
1:03:28going 14 nanometers one more time
1:03:30apparently remember when they have the
1:03:33tick-tock strategy and we talked about
1:03:34that then became tick-tock thud or
1:03:36whatever they change it to this
1:03:38tick-tock when I figure what they think
1:03:42like it's not tick tock anymore it's
1:03:43like I gotta funded that Gao aiming
1:03:45process architecture optimization right
1:03:48and it was because basically like oh we
1:03:51used to you know we do we do a process
1:03:53rank than we do an architecture and then
1:03:54we do a process drink they do no
1:03:55architecture and it was kind of on a
1:03:57yearly basis be the way that was their
1:03:58cadence right and they're like oh we
1:04:00can't we can't sustain that anymore
1:04:02because every time we try to do a new
1:04:03process is taking longer and longer
1:04:04asotin 14-nanometer 210 or whatever the
1:04:07next one is it's taking longer than we
1:04:08thought so we're going to do a process
1:04:09shrink or your architecture and then
1:04:11we're going to optimize that
1:04:12architecture so it basically give us
1:04:13another year to get to the shrink the
1:04:15new strategy is process architecture
1:04:19optimize and you know what let's
1:04:21optimize again because we don't have how
1:04:24we don't have the new process size ready
1:04:27to go
1:04:27and it's kind of comical to see them
1:04:29change their tick-tock strategy to a
1:04:32three-step strategy to a four-step
1:04:33strategy so it's like a like a little
1:04:36kid stalling on getting their assignment
1:04:38done it's like well my new strategy is
1:04:41let's wait another year and you try to
1:04:44look and see what like art so you know k
1:04:47be like is not that big of a deal of an
1:04:49enhancement because we've just got some
1:04:51past things like some some video drm
1:04:53stuff in there and some minor tweaks but
1:04:55it's not you know like it is technically
1:04:57an optimization of a pre-existing thing
1:05:01but and maybe the next one they will
1:05:03optimize more but we're kind of used to
1:05:06even even in this you know age of the
1:05:08the dwindling returns on Morris law used
1:05:12to the idea that we will get a bigger
1:05:17jump Oh in CPU capabilities and with
1:05:21with the process rink and if that
1:05:23process rink just never seems to come
1:05:24it's like well what can we really do
1:05:27like we did a really good job as
1:05:28architecture to begin with this process
1:05:29sighs the biggest bang for the buck
1:05:32historically has been you know how can
1:05:34we decrease power and get more
1:05:36transistors to do stuff with and you
1:05:38know like make different choices the
1:05:40shrink gives you that Headroom could do
1:05:42it provided you can figure out how to
1:05:43make it work in lieu of a shrink you are
1:05:47left with the same power budget and the
1:05:49same number of transistors and just
1:05:50making different trade-offs basically or
1:05:52just being a little bit smarter about a
1:05:53few components and you can make things
1:05:54better that way but you can't make them
1:05:56better in the knots of their giant leaps
1:05:59but you know to to get a double-digit
1:06:01percent increase in almost anything is a
1:06:02very big effort within a given process
1:06:06size especially in an architecture is
1:06:08already pretty well optimized right so
1:06:10this I'd like I say this is
1:06:12disappointing but it is further evidence
1:06:14of the slowing rate of advancement at
1:06:18the at the edges of hardware down on
1:06:21cutting-edge hardware like what is the
1:06:23best process size you can get a you know
1:06:25in a processor in a sophisticated
1:06:26processor for any amount of money and
1:06:28for another year in a row it's going to
1:06:32be 40 nanometers I mean really like
1:06:34these days like an Intel delay is not
1:06:37news like wintel delays the next big
1:06:39thing for a year
1:06:41used to be like shake the industry these
1:06:43days it's kind of more surprising when
1:06:45they don't and I think a pretty sure
1:06:47they're still ahead of most other people
1:06:49because other people are like yeah we're
1:06:51excited we have a 14 nanometer process
1:06:52like this is Intel's going to be on its
1:06:54third year 40 nanometer it's like well
1:06:55welcome to the club right and I guess
1:06:58that lead only counts if they get to the
1:07:00next size before everyone else too but
1:07:02I'm I'm guessing they will i'm guessing
1:07:04this is not like Intel in competence it
1:07:07is merely that it is getting much much
1:07:09harder as the sizes gets much smaller as
1:07:12we discussed in past shows Moore's law
1:07:14cannot continue forever as far as our
1:07:16understanding of the physical world is
1:07:18aware because you cannot subdivide
1:07:19matter into ever-smaller pieces at a
1:07:22certain point you reach a size where you
1:07:24can't break it into any smaller sizes
1:07:26without super high-energy physics and
1:07:28stuff so inevitably eventually
1:07:30everyone's favorite infinite time line
1:07:32argument Moore's law cannot continue
1:07:34right because if you keep having a size
1:07:36of things and you're down to like quarks
1:07:37and stuff like no even getting down just
1:07:41the size of individual atoms the whole
1:07:43functioning of the way we manufacture
1:07:45transistor stops working and we're
1:07:47already getting into all sorts of thing
1:07:48problems the feature sizes we're doing
1:07:50so it will end it's just a question of
1:07:53what does the slope look like as we
1:07:54slide down into the doomsday scenario of
1:07:58CPUs that never get any better and wait
1:08:01for quantum computing to save us all
1:08:02with entirely new paradigm but either
1:08:05way I'm this is not the type of story
1:08:07that i want to read i guess another old
1:08:08man star i'll be able to tell is like
1:08:10when i was a kid computers would get
1:08:12massively faster every year and it was
1:08:14amazing i remember those days anymore do
1:08:19you want doom on a pentium it was like
1:08:21can any computer be this fast how is it
1:08:25possible last year this game was barely
1:08:29usable and now it goes faster than my
1:08:31eyeballs and that would happen every
1:08:33year it's true all right tell me about a
1:08:37AMD risin so i wish i had more time to
1:08:40read up on this but we haven't really
1:08:42talked much about AMD on the show
1:08:44occasionally we mentioned them but like
1:08:45we you know in the context of intel
1:08:48alternatives but we've been doing even
1:08:49less than that it's mostly because
1:08:50despite doing very well in the
1:08:55the glory part of pc CPUs back in the
1:08:58day they PF londes remember those when
1:09:01oh yeah when the AMD was actually giving
1:09:05it until run for their money and was you
1:09:07know taking a lot of the the crowns in
1:09:09those this type of sort of speeds and
1:09:12feed the measurements contest that were
1:09:14so popular back in the back in the 90s
1:09:16what is the best you know cpu for gaming
1:09:20or for whatever and look at these
1:09:21benchmarks in the highest then someone
1:09:23and so forth an empty was doing really
1:09:25well and they were an important player
1:09:28and it was great to see the competition
1:09:29and it forced intel i think to get off
1:09:32of the net burst architecture in the
1:09:33pentium 4 and come up with the core
1:09:35series which was awesome and then it was
1:09:36like Intel took the lead back and am and
1:09:41wiped the md off the face of the earth
1:09:43they came out with the bulldozer
1:09:45architecture that was not particularly
1:09:47successful and it was a bad choice and
1:09:49they've always had sort of you know
1:09:50financial problems as compared to the
1:09:52behemoth it is intel and you know have
1:09:55never been you know a competitive with
1:09:58Intel's fabbing abilities and so we
1:09:59haven't heard anything about them for a
1:10:00long time and this seems like they're
1:10:03come back like hey we're AMD we still
1:10:06know how to make good CPUs and so they
1:10:09have a line of CPUs that are competitive
1:10:12like they're not they're not the best in
1:10:14the world they're not like oh these are
1:10:1510 times better than everything intel
1:10:17has but it's a comeback story and people
1:10:19like a comeback story this this company
1:10:21that was not didn't seem to be even be
1:10:24in the race like that people suggesting
1:10:26apples you just use AMD processors that
1:10:29suggestion stopped many years ago and
1:10:31started to become apple should get AMD
1:10:34to make a new processor that's better
1:10:36than all their crappy ones right right
1:10:38our apple should work with AMD or apple
1:10:40should make its own xat but all but
1:10:42never like Noah suggesting like you know
1:10:44what Mac laptops would be better if they
1:10:46took out the Intel CPUs and use AMD ones
1:10:49instead and so they have the series of
1:10:51CPUs which are significant mostly
1:10:54because I have to come back in there
1:10:55they're actually competitive good and be
1:10:56in the vote for the most part they're
1:10:58cheaper than the Intel alternatives I
1:11:01don't think any I looked at them briefly
1:11:03to see is there anything I their be
1:11:04great for a Mac blow no they're not
1:11:06Mac Pro caliber things but they do have
1:11:08a lot of course for a low price with a
1:11:10reasonable power envelope and I don't
1:11:12think this means Apple will look at them
1:11:14any more than they did in the past
1:11:16because of ancillary issues and because
1:11:19who knows what Intel's road map looks
1:11:21like versus AMD's Road Mac but I'm
1:11:23excited to see md back in the mix
1:11:26because despite the fact that Intel
1:11:28seems to be getting his butt kicked all
1:11:30over the map by ARM processors and
1:11:32mobile and everything having to do with
1:11:34that because all of Intel's mobile
1:11:36efforts have not really gone anywhere
1:11:39and they're not particularly competitive
1:11:41and they're just lucky to get like a
1:11:43radio chip that in Apple's iPhones at
1:11:46this point and every day they must
1:11:48forget who did this may be the CEO it
1:11:50already left regret the sale of their
1:11:51arm holdings when they have the X scale
1:11:52processor they arm things they'll get
1:11:54rid of that because they wanted to do
1:11:55everything x 86 anyway I like seeing a
1:12:01competitor jennifer intel on the high
1:12:03end as well because competition is good
1:12:05and I hope this Spurs Intel to redouble
1:12:10its efforts to stay ahead of the game
1:12:14and to find ways to get more performance
1:12:15and to find ways to get to the next
1:12:17process size in to widen that gap again
1:12:20between them and AMD not that I'm saying
1:12:21I empties only purpose in life is to
1:12:23make Intel stuff better but for the
1:12:24foreseeable future I don't see Apple
1:12:26switching to AMD unless they're asking
1:12:28them to make their very own custom chips
1:12:30and so for my purposes AMD exists to
1:12:34give PC hobbyists a cool alternative to
1:12:36build pcs with end to make the processes
1:12:38that are going to be in my max hopefully
1:12:40better cool sounds about right did you
1:12:44make you want to build a pc no no what
1:12:47makes you want to build a pc is Zeon's
1:12:48like if i ever like you know a lot of
1:12:52people build pcs and like a lot of the
1:12:55hackintosh guides and stuff out there
1:12:56and price comparisons are all about this
1:13:00class of hardware there about like you
1:13:01know imac class cpus you know that the
1:13:03intel like you know 4000 series with k
1:13:07on the end like those are really high
1:13:09powered cpus for desktops they're really
1:13:11nice but Apple already makes those they
1:13:15already you know ship computers with
1:13:18those and keep them reasonably up to
1:13:20date most
1:13:20the time they're called IMAX and the
1:13:22imac 5k is a wonderful computer I'm
1:13:24talking to you on it right now with the
1:13:26exception of my image retention issues
1:13:28on the display which everyone says
1:13:29they're actually not solved in the most
1:13:31recent ones with the exception of that
1:13:33it's it's been a wonderful computer for
1:13:35me and I expect you to serve me still
1:13:38for a little for a while until something
1:13:40faster comes out which barely really
1:13:42hasn't happened the problem is I want
1:13:44something faster I want more than four
1:13:46cores I want you know higher performance
1:13:49than what the consumer line can offer me
1:13:52so I've only ever been tempted to to
1:13:55build a hackintosh not to give myself a
1:13:57cheaper iMac which I understand why
1:14:00people do that you know that's that
1:14:01makes sense but to to give me a computer
1:14:05it's you me basically a Mac that Apple
1:14:09does not even sell and that is you know
1:14:11a modern mac pro well you can get it you
1:14:14can eight core risin for three hundred
1:14:15twenty nine dollars that ok wait cheaper
1:14:19than the equivalent eight core intel
1:14:21chip that is true you know I don't know
1:14:23I had to I guess I'd take a look at if I
1:14:25was to build a hackintosh I was looking
1:14:28like for apples for apples purposes like
1:14:30for an imac because again I don't think
1:14:31any of these are suitable for as far as
1:14:33I'm aware for a laptop chips or whatever
1:14:35a nail still has that wrapped up but for
1:14:37kind of like the debt what we used to
1:14:39call desktop-class cpus where it's not
1:14:41the Zeon's but it's not in the power
1:14:42envelope but like the thing you could
1:14:44stick in a night because it's bacon has
1:14:45lots of fans and what we currently have
1:14:46in the imac i think you could get either
1:14:50a better processor in the same envelope
1:14:52or an equally good processor for
1:14:55hundreds less dollars going with AMD
1:14:58again not that i think apple will do
1:15:00this because of ancillary reasons and
1:15:01other chipsets and thunder bolton and
1:15:03just general relationships with them but
1:15:05it shows me that there's once again
1:15:07competition in the market leaves before
1:15:09gnome was like oh you shouldn't be using
1:15:10that if we were saying we shouldn't use
1:15:12this particular intel cpu and imac we
1:15:14were saying you should use some other
1:15:15Intel CPU instead we weren't saying you
1:15:17should use something or AMD or something
1:15:19like that and now now you can say that
1:15:21this products on the market to say Apple
1:15:25here is an alternative for your imax i
1:15:28know you're probably not going to do it
1:15:29but what it does show is that intel
1:15:31perhaps it's not serving your needs as
1:15:32well as they could because
1:15:33it is technically and financially
1:15:34possible to make a chip that would make
1:15:37Marco happier so why don't you do that
1:15:38yeah I mean like most of my problems
1:15:41don't lie with the processor companies
1:15:43you know like their Intel's good enough
1:15:46for me my problem lies in apples and
1:15:48ability to ship hardware uh so does that
1:15:51cover RZ on gold then or now no the Zeon
1:15:54gold is the kids are supposed to use but
1:15:56they won't ok I have not read up on the
1:16:00Z and gold other than the part that I
1:16:02pasted into the show notes its sky like
1:16:04ep it's the sky like EP Zeon's which is
1:16:07the the line of chips that would be most
1:16:10appropriate to put in a new mac pro but
1:16:13they're probably not going to do that so
1:16:15therefore I have nothing to I haven't
1:16:19even looked about too far into these
1:16:20because in the past I've listened to
1:16:22what sky like II was going to have and
1:16:24it it is truly awesome it's wonderful
1:16:27but it's just I don't know to me it's
1:16:31its kind of even it's almost sad or
1:16:33painful to even read about this
1:16:34processor because I know that to know
1:16:36this is out there but that you can live
1:16:38in it exactly like it I just whatever
1:16:44has been clogging up Apple I hope it
1:16:46gets out and they start shipping
1:16:48hardware again because something's wrong
1:16:52like something is deeply wrong at that
1:16:54company where where is the where it
1:16:56where is all the effort going that's
1:16:58what I want to know because it's sure
1:17:00not going into the mac it's sure not
1:17:02going into the apple TV its aren't going
1:17:04into the ipad some of it but not much of
1:17:06it is going to the watch like where is
1:17:09it going some of its gonna be the phone
1:17:10obviously but is the entire company only
1:17:12capable of keeping the phone up to date
1:17:14at a reasonable pace which even that i
1:17:15got like a ton of its going into the
1:17:17phone sure huge line of its going
1:17:19they're a big company where the hell is
1:17:21everything else yeah that's what i want
1:17:23to know and until until we get software
1:17:26some things offer even that like that's
1:17:28easily a separate able thing like where
1:17:31is the entire company going something's
1:17:36wrong that's that's all i can say is
1:17:37something is deeply wrong and need to
1:17:40change but that's i know that's not very
1:17:43helpful but when you have when you have
1:17:46a UI 2016 in the product line
1:17:48something's really really wrong 2017 has
1:17:51a lot of checks to cash and we'll see if
1:17:54they do i hope they do but we haven't
1:17:56heard a lot of promising info so far to
1:17:59suggest that they will accept Tim Cook's
1:18:00vague promises did you see that thing i
1:18:02retweeted earlier today of someone was
1:18:05doing Swift compilation benchmarks like
1:18:08how long does it take deep well yeah i
1:18:10was linkedin yeah and and the two core
1:18:12mac mini beat the highest-end trashcan
1:18:15mac pro yeah me great that's because of
1:18:17like you know problems in the swift
1:18:18compiler I think it's not like that is
1:18:21not because the mac minis faster I know
1:18:23but it like here's what this shows it
1:18:25doesn't show the quality of the hardware
1:18:26it shows support for the hardware like
1:18:28obviously there is something not
1:18:30allowing the compiler to take advantage
1:18:33of this hardware in the same way that
1:18:34very often they were like weird retina
1:18:36issues with the mac pro because it is
1:18:38such a rare machine and so if we will
1:18:39have them that OS support for it and
1:18:42like just in general the software
1:18:45whether it's the Oso via applications
1:18:46have no expectation of ever running out
1:18:49of trash can because there's so few of
1:18:50them so it's not not only is it not
1:18:51optimized for it but doesn't even take
1:18:53advantage of the hardware that's there
1:18:54it's like the worst case scenario of
1:18:56like you know you get weird pc hardware
1:18:58but windows doesn't support it well only
1:18:59this is apple and this is you know they
1:19:01have a limited line of hardware and like
1:19:03that's all I've ever heard from Mac
1:19:05crash a Mac Pro users is that they feel
1:19:08left out of the rest of the apple
1:19:11ecosystem because all of these software
1:19:13updates and application updates and OS
1:19:15updates pretend that they don't exist so
1:19:17any weird problems they have don't go
1:19:20away don't get fixed and new software
1:19:22doesn't take advantage of all the course
1:19:24that they have and so on and so forth it
1:19:25which is which is sad because that's
1:19:27exactly how it's supposed to be you put
1:19:29out this exotic piece of hardware and
1:19:30don't worry about it because you make
1:19:31the os/2 and all and a bunch of the
1:19:33applications as well you can make sure
1:19:35that it is leverage and that you take
1:19:37advantage of it and when that doesn't
1:19:38happen you just have an exotic piece of
1:19:40hardware that gets worse over time and
1:19:42you know eventually got mac minis
1:19:44beating you in a compilation
1:19:44benchmarking like why no I get that I
1:19:49really think that's like you know Xcode
1:19:51and the compiler having bad settings but
1:19:53you know the point you're a larger point
1:19:56about you know maintenance and support
1:19:57does stand I mean
1:19:58people say like look at Apple they have
1:20:01all the money in the world why can't
1:20:03they do X well you know it wasn't that
1:20:05long ago that Microsoft's all the money
1:20:07in the world and they had like two
1:20:09decades where they did almost nothing
1:20:10Microsoft had a very very long span
1:20:13where they could not produce anything
1:20:15even good let alone great and it you
1:20:20know it's arguable whether they've come
1:20:21out that yet but but you know they
1:20:24they're they're trying they're doing a
1:20:26lot better now they're doing a lot
1:20:27better than they were like it in like
1:20:29the like the windows vista era like
1:20:31first leading up to Vista and then Vista
1:20:32itself and you know at like Microsoft
1:20:35had all the money in the world but
1:20:38simply could not manage to ship great
1:20:41things because of other problems because
1:20:44of mismanagement because of internal
1:20:46problems whatever the case was app or
1:20:50Microsoft had just no ability to apply
1:20:53their money into creating good products
1:20:56reliably and I think we are at that
1:20:58point now with Apple it is very very
1:21:00hard to to look at the output of Apple
1:21:02over the last couple of years and say
1:21:04otherwise they're a company that can
1:21:06produce good things sometimes but
1:21:08increasingly that's the exception not
1:21:10the norm and that's really really
1:21:13worrisome to me one of the way that
1:21:15Microsoft got out of it I got out of
1:21:16their funk aside from changing
1:21:18management stuff was they tried a lot of
1:21:20different things most of which failed
1:21:22but they they tried a lot of them and I
1:21:24think you know if i look at like what
1:21:26was what was the success story that was
1:21:30able to convince microsoft itself and
1:21:32the outside world that Microsoft could
1:21:34conceivably do good things again I feel
1:21:36like it was the Xbox because that was a
1:21:39weird marketing why the hell pancras off
1:21:40making a game console right and it you
1:21:44know it struggled and they had to learn
1:21:46this new business in the same way that
1:21:47Apple kind of had to learn the new
1:21:48business of cell phones and they didn't
1:21:50it you know it is not comparable to the
1:21:52iphone obviously in terms of the scope
1:21:54of its success and how important it was
1:21:55to you know because it was just another
1:21:57game console for the most part i'll vote
1:21:58had its own innovations but it of all
1:22:01the things they did they tried so many
1:22:02things so many different mobile phone
1:22:04strategies so many different tablet and
1:22:05pen computing like they were so close to
1:22:07so many innovations but because they
1:22:09kept trying all these different things
1:22:11I didn't remember how things I did that
1:22:12that sidekick company that they bought
1:22:14with little tourney people think they
1:22:16sold like yeah but Xbox of all things
1:22:20like unquestionably was a success in its
1:22:24market in a very difficult market that
1:22:26has killed many a company who have tried
1:22:29to enter it and be successful and so it
1:22:32I I think Apple probably continues to
1:22:37need to needs to continue to do what it
1:22:40seems to have been doing and like be
1:22:42willing to try like the watch is a good
1:22:44example try a watch maybe it's going to
1:22:46be awesome maybe one or whatever but but
1:22:47do it like we don't need to be I don't
1:22:49think we need to be came and set up I
1:22:50can still do great things because you
1:22:52know the Apple watch is successful as it
1:22:55may or may not be it's you know I think
1:22:58it's a big step up for the the
1:23:00SmartWatch market and in many ways has
1:23:02come to not redefine that market but
1:23:06sort of pin down what people expect from
1:23:08smartwatches to the point where smart
1:23:10watches are very much now aping some of
1:23:14the looks and features of apples things
1:23:16if only to to capitalize on their you
1:23:19know their marketing cachet but
1:23:21self-driving cars all sorts of things
1:23:23that we say why is Apple even doing that
1:23:25all you need is one or two of them tit
1:23:28for it to be worthwhile thus far none of
1:23:31them have been big successes but if
1:23:33Apple was in a Microsoft type situation
1:23:35we would all be looking at the watch or
1:23:36the air pots they see Apple can make
1:23:38great things again Apple's not down that
1:23:39low when we see the air pause for like
1:23:41yes that's what Apple should be doing
1:23:42and that's what we expected you write
1:23:44verses we're super surprised that you've
1:23:46made a successful good product we're not
1:23:47surprised with what we expect we still
1:23:49expect we still have high expectations
1:23:50of Apple we still have we still hold
1:23:52them to high standards and I think
1:23:54that's good but i also like that's why i
1:23:57don't want to be too down on all the
1:23:59weird stuff Apple is doing it I know
1:24:00it's easy to do that you know the
1:24:01trade-offs like oh you should just be
1:24:02making mex better because that's what I
1:24:04like or whatever but as you point out
1:24:05Marco for all we know there's entirely
1:24:07separate things and it's not like they
1:24:08lack the money so as long as it's not
1:24:10literally the people who were going to
1:24:11make the mac pro who are now making
1:24:12self-driving car software like go for it
1:24:15well more power to you
1:24:17eventually we made to be the point where
1:24:20we're looking for apples Xbox and maybe
1:24:23just maybe apples just make a gaming
1:24:25console but they're really terrible
1:24:26gaming so don't do that Oh once i bind
1:24:30the Tendo and the show finally comes to
1:24:32an end because the apocalypse that will
1:24:34happen that comes to pass yeah i i'm not
1:24:41i'm not as down on apple as you are
1:24:43marco i continue to believe that they
1:24:44can come out of it i think microsoft is
1:24:45a great example that no matter how low
1:24:47you go there's always something great
1:24:48you and I don't hold up a sure as an
1:24:50example of that too and a lot of the dev
1:24:52tools stuff that Microsoft has been
1:24:53doing they had a lot of smart people
1:24:54that had a lot of great tech is just a
1:24:56matter of finding a way to channel that
1:24:58into productive in a productive way
1:25:01while also continuing to milk the cash
1:25:03cow that is their terrible enterprise
1:25:05software now might my main concern here
1:25:10is that you know as the 2016 was a
1:25:13really bad year for Apple like from the
1:25:15public point of view and Tim can say
1:25:17stuff like oh we have stuff coming don't
1:25:19worry just because you don't see it
1:25:20doesn't I'm working on it but that
1:25:21doesn't that doesn't mean anything and
1:25:24it just seems like there's these areas
1:25:26of apple product development that have
1:25:28stalled or they're taking way too long
1:25:29and there seems to be not only no end in
1:25:34sight but no changes that would suggest
1:25:36that there would be you know a change of
1:25:40policy or change of results coming and
1:25:41so what i want is by the end of 2017 i
1:25:47think there's a handful of like big hot
1:25:50spot areas that if they are still
1:25:54lacking I want to see somebody get fired
1:25:56I know it's not cool to talk about Apple
1:25:58executives and s VPS and talk about them
1:26:00personally and say who should get fired
1:26:02but I think things are bad enough now
1:26:04that heads have to roll if certain
1:26:06things don't get fixed and I would say
1:26:08maybe the list would be you know mac
1:26:10desktops hardware you know iphone design
1:26:13like if that new iphone does not come
1:26:16out this fall and they have another year
1:26:18of the iphone 6 design and you know
1:26:20general form factor that's a problem
1:26:22right if mac desktops do not get any
1:26:26kind of meaningful update during this
1:26:28year that's a big problem I would say I
1:26:31add software like multitasking on the
1:26:33iPad is one of these areas where like
1:26:35that needs to be improved significantly
1:26:36in some way i would say Siri the quality
1:26:39of Syria reliability the intelligence of
1:26:41Syrian to be improved and maybe I throw
1:26:44in TV content deals as we talked about
1:26:45earlier because those have also been
1:26:46stalled forever and the apple TV is
1:26:48suffering greatly so those things like
1:26:51if all of those don't have meaningful
1:26:54improvements by the end of 2017 then
1:26:57that will be a very long time during
1:26:59which these things have not improved and
1:27:01desperately need to and somebody high up
1:27:04needs to get fired or resign at that
1:27:06point well you would like that to happen
1:27:08but if the rest of the world says hey
1:27:12record iphone sales here is a ten
1:27:14percent bump to your stock price Apple
1:27:16Apple is doing great from the
1:27:18perspective of investors and and other
1:27:21people who have you know the broader
1:27:23world that has expectations what Apple's
1:27:24supposed to do which is sell a lot of
1:27:25iphones for a high price they're doing
1:27:28that really really well so far and
1:27:29everything we're talking about is tiny
1:27:32little slivers of that of the giant pie
1:27:34wedge that is the revenue of Apple well
1:27:37no it's not because look Microsoft did
1:27:40really well under steve ballmer it
1:27:42financially for a long time he had like
1:27:44record quarters record sales as the
1:27:46product line just stagnated and crumbled
1:27:50and the quality of the foundation the
1:27:52company was built on crumbled and the
1:27:54world around it moved on to this massive
1:27:57new world of mobile and they totally
1:27:59missed it because they were not being
1:28:00managed properly so this is it's not it
1:28:03the fact that they keep selling record
1:28:05quarters is not good enough for Apple
1:28:07but what I'm saying is like a executives
1:28:10don't get fired when your stock price
1:28:12goes up in general all right so I was
1:28:14like I'm saying like whether you think
1:28:16it's the right thing to do or what you
1:28:17would do versus what is actually going
1:28:18to happen right because the only thing
1:28:20we've seen executives get can for at
1:28:22Apple is not getting along with other
1:28:23executives that's forestall not being
1:28:26like a cultural fit or like flailing and
1:28:28not being a success like whatever
1:28:29papermaster and those people who were
1:28:30there for very short time right what
1:28:32would it take for a long time ur to get
1:28:35fired I mean I think we've seen with the
1:28:37reshuffling not firing but like I we
1:28:40don't know what's going on with that
1:28:41reshuffling that they've done various
1:28:42times but surely that reshuffling
1:28:44is elevating some people and and and
1:28:47minimizing other people right within the
1:28:49company enough so that they all stay
1:28:51there but still like still still
1:28:55affecting that right you're not going to
1:28:57see like it's a big name executive get
1:29:01fired when every kind of metric you can
1:29:05put on the company is looking good
1:29:07because that's just not how big
1:29:08companies work now arguably like you
1:29:10said yet they're making a big mistake
1:29:11sure you're figuring how to make more
1:29:13money about the iphone but what about
1:29:14the future of all blah but they've
1:29:15answers for all that well future we have
1:29:17all these super products so you don't
1:29:18know about plus the car crap and stuff
1:29:19like that and maybe a little hit and
1:29:21maybe they want like it's not like they
1:29:22had their heads in the sand right but I
1:29:25don't what I'm saying is that don't get
1:29:28your hopes up for that to happen right
1:29:30even if even if none of the things you
1:29:32listed happen but they still have like
1:29:34record iphone sales again and the ASP
1:29:37goes up again no one's getting fired
1:29:39like I mean if that if whoever was
1:29:42responsible for getting a skinny model
1:29:43TV deal hasn't been fired yet another
1:29:46year of not getting it is not make a
1:29:48difference to give an example is
1:29:49relevant to things we just talked about
1:29:51because obviously it's not important
1:29:53enough to the future of the company and
1:29:55in other areas like the phone like not
1:29:57the phone the watch it's hard to tell
1:29:59exactly how the watch is doing because
1:30:00apples being cagey about it but I feel
1:30:02like the watch is on a slow burn right
1:30:04it is it's not a super duper success
1:30:06like the iPhone was but even the iPhone
1:30:08wasn't a super duper success in its
1:30:09first year or two right or the ipod or
1:30:11anything like that but apple's standing
1:30:12behind the watch and working on it and
1:30:14things seem like they're going in the
1:30:16right direction with the watch it is
1:30:17getting better people like it more it is
1:30:19finding a place in the market yeah i
1:30:21actually would agree with that the watch
1:30:23there is a reason why the walk didn't
1:30:24make my hit list because like it
1:30:26actually it is not amazing you know it
1:30:29on all terms it has lots of asterisks on
1:30:31it but overall it is healthy and it does
1:30:35seem to be on the right track and so
1:30:38like the apple that is still willing to
1:30:39nurture a product like that that you
1:30:42know they're even the ipad which arguing
1:30:44they're nurturing and and helping along
1:30:46and you know they're trying to get it
1:30:48you know come on come on a little
1:30:49product like you can do it maybe they're
1:30:50not quite doing the right things but
1:30:51like the fact that they're standing
1:30:53behind those and all the rumblings we
1:30:55hear about AR and stuff like that i do
1:30:57see
1:30:58a lot of encouraging things of like how
1:31:01is Apple fostering the you know the
1:31:04development of what could be eventually
1:31:06big important businesses and how patient
1:31:08they're being with it most of our
1:31:10frustration is with pre-existing
1:31:12businesses that seemed like they are
1:31:14neglected right and because we like
1:31:16those products but like I don't know
1:31:20enough about the executives to say
1:31:21someone should be fired I think if I had
1:31:23to restructure /re staff a bunch of
1:31:27things you know it out my pics is all
1:31:29server side stuff like that's that part
1:31:33of the company is obviously in the most
1:31:34need and I don't know who's in charge of
1:31:36that who needs to be in charge of it but
1:31:37like Apple should have bought Google
1:31:39long ago and given all the
1:31:40responsibility to all their server side
1:31:42stuff google because they know what the
1:31:43hell they're doing Apple does not yet
1:31:45they're getting better but not fast
1:31:46enough what's any better faster Apple
1:31:49service or desktop linux applet services
1:31:53because that's not much going nowhere
1:31:54but yeah but but i can't i can't pin
1:31:59that to a particular group or executive
1:32:01and i think there has been restructuring
1:32:03the seeing Apple like presented like
1:32:04mezzos conferences and stuff is showing
1:32:06that that is actually going in the right
1:32:08direction they're just so far behind
1:32:09that it's pretty difficult to catch up
1:32:10but for all the other things like even
1:32:12the Mac things i don't i don't feel like
1:32:14the people who are involved in mac
1:32:16hardware like I i don't i don't know i
1:32:19don't know where the blame lies but it
1:32:21seems like priorities that would set be
1:32:23set above the level of people working on
1:32:24the mac stuff right like I bet everyone
1:32:27who's working on the Mac loves the Mac
1:32:28it wants it to be awesome and I bet a
1:32:30lot of people who are involved in the
1:32:32mac love the mac and want it to be
1:32:33awesome but it's clear that the the pace
1:32:37of product releases and innovation and
1:32:39choices about the particular mixes of
1:32:41the products are not satisfying a
1:32:42certain class of mac users and we find
1:32:44that unsatisfying and even for the
1:32:46people that is satisfying I feel like
1:32:48the releases are slower which you know
1:32:50is not you know it's not good from
1:32:51anybody's perspective that like we want
1:32:53to see new better things faster but I
1:32:56wouldn't fire anyone involved in the mac
1:32:58organization right I feel like that's a
1:33:00priority set at a higher level and I
1:33:02wouldn't fire Tim Cook because of all
1:33:04the good things that we just listed the
1:33:05phone and the watch and trying to figure
1:33:08out how to make the ipad better
1:33:09yeah I'm I have to have hopes for this
1:33:15year and I found last year disappointing
1:33:17but I think I think I'm more optimistic
1:33:20than you are that these are all
1:33:22eminently fixable problems and I am
1:33:24encouraged by by efforts like the watch
1:33:27yeah and furthermore uh I don't entirely
1:33:30get what firing somebody really
1:33:32accomplishes other than making you feel
1:33:35better that that somebody's paying for
1:33:37what you don't like and it certainly
1:33:41would presumably change course of Apple
1:33:45at least slightly if that executive was
1:33:47high enough but I mean we we don't know
1:33:50what's going on behind the curtain we
1:33:52don't know if they're playing a long
1:33:53game that that that will revolutionize
1:33:56the mac or revolutionize something else
1:33:59or just create a whole new thing that we
1:34:02can't even fathom we don't know what the
1:34:04long what what they're doing behind
1:34:05closed doors and I just feel like seeing
1:34:08a head roll or demanding ahead roll I
1:34:10don't know that that's necessarily going
1:34:12to really change anything I mean you
1:34:14just because one or even a couple people
1:34:16leave or told to leave you don't move a
1:34:20ship that big without moving the rudder
1:34:22a lot and one person can only move the
1:34:25rudder but so much unless they're like
1:34:27Steve Jobs or Tim Cook I think the
1:34:30reason why I want to see something
1:34:32change if all these things still
1:34:33continue to fail at the end of this year
1:34:35is that no if no heads roll if no one
1:34:38changes jobs if nothing really suggests
1:34:41that anything went wrong then that is
1:34:44Apple tacit least telling the world and
1:34:47possibly themselves internally this is
1:34:50fine this is how we want things to go
1:34:52it's one thing if the reason why all
1:34:55these things are in neglect right now is
1:34:57because lots of things have gone wrong
1:34:59or somebody really messed up or somebody
1:35:02made a terrible decision or took a bad
1:35:03risk or something like that it's another
1:35:06thing if these things are all this way
1:35:09in this state of neglect because that's
1:35:13considered okay so if something if
1:35:17there's somebody who like whose job
1:35:19changes for instance the role of the App
1:35:22Store
1:35:23recently got taken out of its previous
1:35:25organization and moved under phil
1:35:26schiller and in the like eight years or
1:35:30whatever it was it was under the
1:35:31previous organization nothing happened
1:35:33it was just stagnant had lots of
1:35:35problems and it's been at a schiller for
1:35:37about a year now and lots of improvement
1:35:39have happened already and there's you
1:35:41know they're there at a great pace so
1:35:42obviously that was an area where
1:35:44something was really not working right
1:35:47it was had a lot of problems it got
1:35:49moved to a different executive so
1:35:51effectively the old executive was like
1:35:52you know presumably like removed from it
1:35:54in some kind of action you know or some
1:35:56kind of decision and then under the new
1:35:59decorative things change because
1:36:01something wasn't going right so that was
1:36:03a recognition internally to the company
1:36:05that this this is not working this is
1:36:08not good enough we're going to change it
1:36:10so it can be good enough and so if
1:36:12nothing changes in this list of things
1:36:16that you know mac desktops iphone is if
1:36:18nothing changes and we end these things
1:36:22are still being neglected almost a year
1:36:24from now after being a hood for the last
1:36:27few years then that to me is a sign that
1:36:31Tim Cook and everyone beneath him
1:36:33believes that is good enough so that
1:36:36ultimately rests on Tim whether the
1:36:38problem is Tim himself or somebody below
1:36:41him that is on Tim to manage to
1:36:45supervise and to fix if there are
1:36:46problems you know when when there are
1:36:49problems between forestall and I've and
1:36:51whoever whatever the drama was there Tim
1:36:54saw there was a problem here and he
1:36:57fixed it and whether you like his
1:36:58solution or not he took an action
1:37:00because things were not good enough he
1:37:02fixed it if nothing changes in these
1:37:06areas and they're still being horribly
1:37:08neglected in another year from now then
1:37:11that is Tim Cook implicitly saying this
1:37:14is good enough yeah but that's a stretch
1:37:16fruity choice no fee if he chooses to
1:37:18de-emphasize the mac or cancel the mac
1:37:20entirely that's a strategic choice for
1:37:21the company will make all of us sad but
1:37:23like it's not it's not saying like we
1:37:25think this is good enough it's saying
1:37:26yeah we're de prioritizing that and
1:37:28shifting our efforts elsewhere because
1:37:30we don't think that's an important
1:37:32important to the future growth of the
1:37:33company right which we hate and we we
1:37:35don't like but like it's not as
1:37:37the same as saying we're trying to put
1:37:40everything we handed behind the Mac like
1:37:41it's the difference in attention like we
1:37:43are trying to make the mac the best that
1:37:46could possibly be and this is our best
1:37:47effort I'm not even asking for that I'm
1:37:49asking for basic maintenance yeah well
1:37:52again because if they're if they were
1:37:53trying to say we are trying to maintain
1:37:55in the mac in the fashion that has it
1:37:57has been maintained in the past and they
1:37:59think this is satisfactory you right
1:38:01there that they're wrong on that but if
1:38:02instead they're saying this is exactly
1:38:04the amount of support for the mac that
1:38:06we want this is exactly how we wanted to
1:38:07go the exactly the products we want out
1:38:09of them we're very happy with the
1:38:10results this is our strategic direction
1:38:12we're all sad and mad about it but from
1:38:14a company you know from the perspective
1:38:17of his Tim Cook making the right
1:38:18decision for the company it's arguable
1:38:20that he is because the mac is clearly
1:38:21not the future of Apple right it's just
1:38:23this thing that we all I can use right
1:38:24and if it means that more time and
1:38:27energy and money is available for
1:38:28whatever you know the actual future
1:38:32Apple is going to be but it's going to
1:38:33be the watch or AR or self-driving cars
1:38:35off or who knows what that is probably
1:38:37the correct strategic direction for the
1:38:39company despite how angry it makes us i
1:38:41think is entirely a question of what
1:38:44their intent is because it's like
1:38:46judging whether its success or a failure
1:38:47we see what the results are and if that
1:38:51is the intended results and they're
1:38:52getting exactly what they want and then
1:38:54our quibble is just for the strategic
1:38:55direction whereas if the intended result
1:38:56is very different than what we're
1:38:58actually getting then that's the company
1:39:00failing to you know xq successfully on
1:39:03its own plan right and because apple
1:39:05doesn't really tell you what its own
1:39:06plans are in terms of how it emphasizes
1:39:08product lines and stuff other than sort
1:39:10of the PR problem that we get about you
1:39:13know we love the mac blah blah blah
1:39:14which really says nothing it's very
1:39:17difficult to judge whether they are
1:39:18failing or successfully executing
1:39:20strategy we don't like yeah I couldn't
1:39:22agree more in in I concur that I am
1:39:25disappointed with the way the Mac has
1:39:27been treated and I would like to see it
1:39:31be different but just because my engine
1:39:34isn't revved by a touch bar doesn't mean
1:39:37the touch bar is wrong it doesn't mean
1:39:39that it was a failure doesn't mean Apple
1:39:41isn't innovating it doesn't mean it's
1:39:43not a magical awesome improvement all it
1:39:46means is it's not right for me and for
1:39:50me
1:39:50to it to hypothetically say oh that
1:39:52Apple's doing everything wrong or that
1:39:54the head of mac hardware should be fired
1:39:56strictly because of the touch bar which
1:39:58is not what you're saying markets not
1:39:59all I'm saying nope no I'm not I know
1:40:02it's not but I I think you know what I'm
1:40:04trying just rephrase and say that I
1:40:07think you're conflating a disappointment
1:40:11with direction this is what John is just
1:40:12alluding to a difference in direction
1:40:14our disappointment in direction with a
1:40:16failure and that is not necessarily the
1:40:19case just like John said I agree that I
1:40:21I don't like the way things are going
1:40:23but I think it's too strong to say that
1:40:25it's a failure at this point it's just
1:40:28it seems a little bit aggressive to me
1:40:30know and I didn't say these things are
1:40:32all failures at this point I said that
1:40:34these are you know these are like you
1:40:35know checks the 2016 wrote for 2017 to
1:40:38cash and if 2017 goes through and these
1:40:42things are all still a problem something
1:40:44needs to change big time because it
1:40:46isn't you know I'm not saying that a
1:40:49company that's trying to maximize its
1:40:51revenue and make itself a solid growth
1:40:53potential in the future shouldn't change
1:40:54strategy what I am saying is that Apple
1:40:57does not ship strat apples entire brand
1:41:02and the reputation they built up over
1:41:04years and years and years is that they
1:41:06don't ship shit that Apple products are
1:41:09good they are great and for them to keep
1:41:12saying that and to have major areas of
1:41:15the product line that are really
1:41:18embarrassing or really like customer
1:41:21hostile even for years on end that they
1:41:25keep selling just to scrape a little bit
1:41:27more profit off the pavement before they
1:41:28just total to kill them that is not what
1:41:31Apple should be doing that it like for
1:41:35Apple like for corporation X sure let
1:41:38let Steve Ballmer run it then why isn't
1:41:40steve ballmer running if that's what
1:41:41they want to do that's the goal let him
1:41:42do it he's great at that but that's not
1:41:44Apple that's not good enough for Apple
1:41:46it never has been and it shouldn't be
1:41:47now yeah I mean in the grand scheme of
1:41:51things even though I'm actively arguing
1:41:53with you right now I do largely agree
1:41:55with you I think that you're right the
1:41:572016 wrote a lot of checks that I've yet
1:41:59to see 2017 cash I just
1:42:03what concerns me is I i wonder if you're
1:42:06putting apple on a pedestal and if they
1:42:08don't release the most perfect mac pro
1:42:10ever that that you're gonna still be
1:42:12fiery about it if they don't you know
1:42:15version bump the map book macbook
1:42:16adorable you're gonna be fiery about it
1:42:18truth be told i will be too but don't
1:42:19tell Marco uh the macbook adorable is
1:42:21only one year old that's fine by but by
1:42:23my standards that's that would totally
1:42:24fine yeah and I mean also remember we're
1:42:28only one calendar quarter into the year
1:42:31yet I mean there's still plenty of time
1:42:32left now in your defense Marco typically
1:42:35there is a March event of some sort and
1:42:37we are already halfway through march and
1:42:39there's been not even a peep of a
1:42:41confirmation about it which means
1:42:43they'll surely confirm it tomorrow
1:42:44before we release the episode but
1:42:46nevertheless um you know we haven't
1:42:48heard a march event yet and that's
1:42:49slightly alarming but it's only March we
1:42:52don't know what's in store for the rest
1:42:53of the year and who knows RR Sox could
1:42:56be blown off at WWDC and typically there
1:42:59at least my socks are at least blown a
1:43:03little bit forward if not entirely off
1:43:04my personality to death and so you never
1:43:07know what will happen but IIIi don't I
1:43:10wouldn't I think we shouldn't get too
1:43:13fiery yet if after WWDC and we've seen
1:43:17the software updates and we still
1:43:19haven't seen much in the way of hardware
1:43:21updates okay maybe we should start
1:43:22getting fiery but at this point I'm not
1:43:24too concerned yet on the topic of
1:43:26figuring out like fig tree and to figure
1:43:28out intent like basically as is it a is
1:43:30it a successful execution of a strategy
1:43:33we disagree with her a failed execution
1:43:34of a strategy that we would support that
1:43:36type of thing the Mac Pro is actually a
1:43:38good example because on the the idea of
1:43:42Apple not shipping things they would be
1:43:44proud of right the mac pro i think is
1:43:47the best example of it's not that it was
1:43:48it was a bad product when it was
1:43:50introduced it's actually really cool and
1:43:51interesting it's that if you keep
1:43:53shipping it for three years it becomes
1:43:55an embarrassment right and it is the
1:43:57type of embarrassment it like look there
1:43:59is no strategy that makes sense with the
1:44:02image that Apple previously had unless
1:44:04the new idea is we don't want Apple to
1:44:06have that reputation which doesn't make
1:44:07any sense because everything else Apple
1:44:08does and everything they say and
1:44:09everything they've always done is like
1:44:10yes we want to be the company has the
1:44:11reputation your shipping good stuff the
1:44:13Mac Pro is
1:44:15um it's you they shouldn't still be
1:44:17selling it and I understand why there
1:44:19why if you were if you were to get
1:44:20someone up on stage and talk to them in
1:44:22a WTC you know talk show type interview
1:44:24and say why you still ship in the mac
1:44:25pro i guarantee you what they will said
1:44:27and it's probably true is you know we
1:44:29didn't want we you know some vague
1:44:32answer about how they had it they didn't
1:44:33plan for this like there was a strategy
1:44:35to do to do something better and it
1:44:37didn't work out so i would say there
1:44:38were they would did they would vaguely
1:44:39admit to some kind of failure there and
1:44:41they would say but then why are you even
1:44:42still selling it they would say well
1:44:43because we have customers who need a
1:44:46computer like this and actually believe
1:44:48it or not in case you could probably
1:44:49believe it not selling this now piece of
1:44:52crap overpriced computer will actually
1:44:54be worse for those customers than
1:44:56continuing to sell it and then the only
1:44:58recourse you have that it's like okay
1:44:59but the Estall to sell it for like eight
1:45:00grand and they'd be like well people buy
1:45:03it and that you know whatever Apple has
1:45:05never been ashamed of selling people
1:45:06thanks for way too much money but that's
1:45:08the situation they're in so i feel like
1:45:10the mac pro figure out is this a
1:45:12strategy we don't agree with the
1:45:13resistive failure there has to be a
1:45:15failure in there whether they're not
1:45:16going to come and tell you exactly what
1:45:17the failures are you know what I mean
1:45:18like I'm gonna say oh here's what went
1:45:20wrong or whatever but that seems very
1:45:22clear to me there is no conscious
1:45:24strategy that offices you know what
1:45:25we're going to make pro hardware and
1:45:27there were not going to update over
1:45:27three or four years there I do not
1:45:30believe that was ever Apple strategy
1:45:32that is evidence of a failure how big a
1:45:35failure is that in the grand scheme of
1:45:36things I don't know or whatever but that
1:45:39is the only thing that it seems clear
1:45:40from the outside everything else you can
1:45:41say is it a failure to like ship make
1:45:45all your laptops thinner lighter is that
1:45:46a strategy or is it a failure to have
1:45:49computers that aren't really that much
1:45:51better than the ones they replace but
1:45:52are more expensive or is that part of a
1:45:54strategy like almost everything else I
1:45:56look at aiesec witnesses that seems a
1:45:57lot like a strategy maybe a strategy I
1:45:59don't agree with personally from my
1:46:01taste in product so whatever but it
1:46:02seems like a strategy but the mac pro
1:46:04does not seem like a strategy it seems
1:46:06like a failure counter-argument the mac
1:46:09mini uh neck midi totally fine they
1:46:11could update it it's really easily
1:46:12updated its uses chief component part
1:46:15that stuff that's a strategy well and so
1:46:17their strategy was let's put this thing
1:46:19out there but because it doesn't sound
1:46:20very high volumes let's never update it
1:46:23basically why couldn't that have been
1:46:24the same strategy for the mac pro no
1:46:26because the mac pro the whole point of
1:46:27the mac pro it is
1:46:28is the biggest fastest computer for the
1:46:30most demanding workloads and the rest of
1:46:32apples product line like the 5k imac has
1:46:34passed it by like its role in the
1:46:36product line is to be the biggest
1:46:38fastest and most expensive the role the
1:46:39Mac Mini is to be the cheapest and
1:46:41crappy a success like you know if you
1:46:44never updated it exactly feels its role
1:46:46the cheapest and crappiest you're just
1:46:48like oh this is a product apple doesn't
1:46:49care about and doesn't really care about
1:46:50updating that I feel like mac mini looks
1:46:52totally like strategy to me but there is
1:46:54no world in which a strategy of like
1:46:56we're going to make the biggest fastest
1:46:57computer that never make it any faster
1:46:59in the whole rest of our product line
1:47:00including eventually our watches are
1:47:02going to be faster than this friggin
1:47:03trash can that's that's not a strategy
1:47:05because of the slot that the product
1:47:07goes in so it's got to be a failure mmm
1:47:10III don't I don't think we have enough
1:47:14Tim Cook Apple history to know that I i
1:47:16think there's very plausibly I think it
1:47:20was probably a failure of some kind but
1:47:22I think it's very plausibly also just a
1:47:25strategy of how today's Apple deals with
1:47:28low volume products we need to like
1:47:31write all these things down so that we
1:47:33can wait like in 20 years for like the
1:47:34tell-all book like we need to track down
1:47:36these long retired millionaire Apple
1:47:38executives like what tell happen with
1:47:40the mac pro like tell us cuz from the
1:47:42outside we can't tell what you know it
1:47:44was it just like an Intel thing that you
1:47:46didn't get or the sales volume or there
1:47:48was some like I don't know what what was
1:47:50the what happened like her did you have
1:47:51a design then they were fatal flaws with
1:47:53this little triangle design and you're
1:47:54just eating the cost on the GPU
1:47:55replacements and the new one you had
1:47:57planned didn't work like what what
1:47:59happened whereas the mac mini I feel
1:48:01like you interviewed me like an old kiss
1:48:02but like computer its low-end and
1:48:05compile splashed on the mac for any way
1:48:06home Oh is there any show that we can't
1:48:11eventually get to the mac pro bono case
1:48:12he loves it that's the best it makes me
1:48:15so happy thanks to our three sponsors
1:48:18this week ero betterment and square
1:48:20space and we'll see you next week
1:48:25now the show is over they didn't even
1:48:28mean to begin cuz it was accidental oh
1:48:32it was accidental John did any research
1:48:37Marco and Casey wouldn't let him
1:48:40cuz it was accidentally it was
1:48:44accidental and you can find the show
1:48:48notes today TP FM and if you're into
1:48:53twitter you can follow them at cas eyl
1:48:59ISS so that's Casey list and a osseo a
1:49:03RM can t marco arment SI r kc us a
1:49:11syracuse
1:49:18can we can we please talk about
1:49:26something that'll make us happier please
1:49:28like the switch maybe hopefully possibly
1:49:31John how do you like you switch uh it's
1:49:34hard to say how I like my switch because
1:49:36come on supposed to be your happy plan
1:49:40uh because as far as like I feel kind of
1:49:43bad as a lot of people who I know who
1:49:44are using the switch or I'll talking
1:49:46about it they're talking about the
1:49:47hardware and it's like this is just a
1:49:50Zelda delivery device for me at this
1:49:51point kind of like it you know my
1:49:54playstation 4 became my destiny delivery
1:49:56device uh and in that capacity I wish as
1:50:01always that the hardware was faster
1:50:02because then I wouldn't have slowdowns
1:50:06in forested areas and it's like I still
1:50:09find myself thinking can you imagine how
1:50:11how you know how even better this game
1:50:15would be on the ps4 but in general I
1:50:18don't spend much time dwelling it up
1:50:19because I'm really really loving Zelda I
1:50:21think it's a great game I enjoy it I
1:50:23think about it when I'm not playing I
1:50:24can't wait to play it every time I'm
1:50:26away from the game and it's like
1:50:28watching a movie I really don't think
1:50:29about the quality of my blu-ray player
1:50:31on and watch a good movie i think about
1:50:32the movie so when i'm playing so i'm
1:50:34thinking about zelda and it's awesome
1:50:35and it's great and mice which has
1:50:37literally never been held in my hands to
1:50:40play a game and has not left the dock
1:50:42since i got zelda so i'm using mice
1:50:45which it is I'm pretending that Nintendo
1:50:48is still releasing TV connected consoles
1:50:50and not this hybrid portable thing and
1:50:52I'm perfectly happy with that eventually
1:50:55I probably will take it out and try
1:50:56playing a handheld and see what that's
1:50:57like but for now it is me a pro
1:51:00controller and Zelda and I'm loving it
1:51:03no spoilers please you know it's funny
1:51:05so I played with two different peoples
1:51:09which is my sister-in-law got one and
1:51:11she came over the evening of of launch
1:51:14day and in the following day I went to
1:51:16my friend Steve's house and and played
1:51:19with his for a little bit and in I guess
1:51:22in a kind of opposite way in that I
1:51:25don't think I really want a canister to
1:51:30speak to because I don't really see how
1:51:32it will
1:51:32help my life I want to switch so badly
1:51:35even though I know I'll play it for like
1:51:37a week and then never look back because
1:51:38I just think this thing is so darn cool
1:51:42and I've been super impressed by it we
1:51:45actually hooked it up to my TV because
1:51:46my sister my sister in laws that is
1:51:49because she hadn't hooked it up to hers
1:51:50yet and I thought that was super awesome
1:51:52I played a few minutes of Zelda I
1:51:54thought that was really cool I didn't
1:51:56play it enough to like really get into
1:51:57it but my initial impressions were great
1:52:00the hard way or with the with the
1:52:02weirdly named joy cons like I find that
1:52:05name to be a little bit peculiar but the
1:52:07click that it makes when you plug it
1:52:10when you slide one of them in and
1:52:12removing it is so cool and the kickstand
1:52:14is little chintzy or whatever but it
1:52:15still gets the job done for the most
1:52:16part like everything about this hardware
1:52:19is so cool and I really want one for no
1:52:24reason at all because I'm just not
1:52:26really a videogame kind of guy but man
1:52:30this thing is neat and I'm super
1:52:32impressed by it and it's the first time
1:52:33I've lusted after a video game system
1:52:37since the original Wii which I did play
1:52:39a lot of for about a year and then I
1:52:41just never look back but I've been super
1:52:44super anxious to get my hands on one
1:52:46even though well I mean I could get my
1:52:48hands on when I'm sure but I I know
1:52:50myself enough to know that I'm just I'm
1:52:53I'm in lust I'm not in love but we'll
1:52:55see what happens over time Marco you you
1:52:57guys are I guess really TIFF got one
1:52:59right so what have you thought oh we
1:53:01haven't we haven't really played it much
1:53:03I so I I just came back from a trip I
1:53:06left that trip short left less or left
1:53:08for that trip shortly after last week's
1:53:09show the night before the trip i tried
1:53:11to buy and download zelda and the the
1:53:16credit card thing on in tennis website
1:53:18just kept failing and timing out and
1:53:19everything like their whole website just
1:53:21sucked that night it just like
1:53:23everything kept failing and so I wasn't
1:53:25able to buy it in time for the trip and
1:53:27so I didn't bring it because I'm like
1:53:29you know I have like you know I have
1:53:30bomb Iran and that racing game neither
1:53:33which i've actually played yet I just
1:53:34because like you know buying installing
1:53:36this so if it all takes time and then I
1:53:37have to do something else and I left for
1:53:39a trip and I'm not going to bring this
1:53:40entire console taking up space in my bag
1:53:42and one more thing to charge and
1:53:44everything
1:53:45just for these two kind of like you know
1:53:46second to your games I you know if I
1:53:49could get Zelda before the show sure
1:53:51I'll bring it but I couldn't so that's
1:53:53so I didn't bring it and now we're back
1:53:55and I'm dealing with all the work I
1:53:56missed so I still haven't actually
1:53:57played it yet and I'd love to play it on
1:54:00my TV but I can't get a pro controller
1:54:02anywhere so that kind of breaks that as
1:54:05well I don't really want to use the
1:54:06weird little like it so you can stop
1:54:08playing I was inside you can play it on
1:54:09your TV without a pro control you just
1:54:10got to use the joy con so that a lot of
1:54:12people have asked me if I have like the
1:54:13left joy con disconnecting thing I don't
1:54:15know I don't use those things here's the
1:54:16brake controller and it works fine rice
1:54:19athlete so like it's not disconnect yeah
1:54:21so so I need to get myself a pro
1:54:23controller to really enjoy this thing
1:54:26because what I really want is to just
1:54:27it's most of the time to play these
1:54:28games on my TV so once I get that then
1:54:31let me know but I'm also i suspect that
1:54:35these initial games i got are probably
1:54:37not going to be a lot of my time i'm not
1:54:39really into Zelda TIFF would probably
1:54:40play it but I probably won't I'm more
1:54:43into like the racing and stuff game so
1:54:45when Mario Kart comes out I'm very much
1:54:46into that but I that's not out yet and
1:54:49like when the new sonic thing comes out
1:54:52I'll be very much into that probably but
1:54:53that also isn't out yet Mario games when
1:54:56those come out but they also aren't any
1:54:59kind of virtual console stuff to maybe
1:55:02play some of the games that I've missed
1:55:03since like the Super Nintendo era or the
1:55:05n64 era like to play some of that
1:55:07someone like the mario games have come
1:55:09out in the middle if that becomes
1:55:10available and possible to do I'd love to
1:55:12do that but I can't yet because they
1:55:14don't exist so eventually I expect to
1:55:17really enjoy this thing but right now
1:55:18I've barely used it because everything
1:55:20I've tried to do either failed or took
1:55:21too long and then I had to go on trip I
1:55:23feel like they are like three obvious
1:55:25possibilities with this Zelda the Zelda
1:55:27in particular one is your super zelda
1:55:29fan and you played all the the 3d Zelda
1:55:31games and you love them you will also
1:55:32love this game so that that's the easy
1:55:34case that's why all the gaming press
1:55:35loves of that's why I love it right to
1:55:37is you don't know a Zelda from a hole in
1:55:39the wall and you bought this switch
1:55:42because you saw one thought it was neat
1:55:43and you get Zelda because it's like that
1:55:46you know the popular top tier game to
1:55:48get on launch and you start playing it
1:55:51and you just slowly gradually get lost
1:55:56in Zelda playing your version
1:55:59what you think the zelda game is
1:56:00supposed to be about maybe not even
1:56:02advancing the actual main quest
1:56:04storyline for a very long time and spend
1:56:06like literally a year and a half
1:56:08consumed by this little the toybox world
1:56:12because you have never played a sandbox
1:56:14game before and you've never played a
1:56:15zelda and this is all entirely new to
1:56:17you right and the third possibility is
1:56:19you've never played a zelda you get this
1:56:21game you try it and you're like this
1:56:23seems big and confusing not for me and I
1:56:24think that's what Marco is gonna happens
1:56:26like yeah it's neat I can see how people
1:56:28might like it but not my type of game
1:56:30and probably also happened to tiff
1:56:31because it's it's very difficult i feel
1:56:33like to play this zelda game in
1:56:36particular in any zelda game in a casual
1:56:38way you're either going to know what
1:56:41you're getting into and know you like
1:56:42this kind of game or not know what
1:56:45you're getting into and just be
1:56:46completely consumed because you don't
1:56:48have the antibodies for this type of
1:56:49thing but you are the type of person who
1:56:51is tirely who does like this kind of
1:56:52game and for that have a person like I
1:56:54can imagine singing literally hundreds
1:56:56of hours into this non multiplayer
1:56:58single-player completely entirely
1:57:00scripted deterministic game because
1:57:03you'll just be like climbing trees and
1:57:05picking apples and cooking food and and
1:57:07exploring and occasionally advancing
1:57:10this big overarching world story thing
1:57:12which may eventually get too hard for
1:57:13you to do anyway and like because if
1:57:16you've never done that before this is
1:57:18amazing I've done all this stuff before
1:57:19I'm like you know amazed and excited and
1:57:23just want to go exploring and do things
1:57:24and like constantly getting distracted
1:57:26from advancing the main quest by all the
1:57:28other things that you can do whether
1:57:30they be official side quests or entirely
1:57:32different ones and it's just it's for
1:57:35for an experienced sell it express it
1:57:38impresses experienced Zelda fans but I
1:57:41think like the best like the ideal
1:57:42experiences for like for this to be your
1:57:44first Zelda and for you to be the type
1:57:45of person who loves Zelda but you don't
1:57:47know it yet because you've never played
1:57:48one this was your first Delvian like
1:57:50some kid for some kid this is going to
1:57:52be this kids for a cell to game it's
1:57:54gonna blow their mind they're going to
1:57:55talk about this game like we talked
1:57:56about Mario 64 of being like oh so
1:57:59that's what three platforming is oh I
1:58:01see that's that's how 3d works like like
1:58:04completely you know childhood defining
1:58:09game type experience so I'm
1:58:12I'm excited by this but I have dim hopes
1:58:14that Marco will get anything out of it
1:58:15and I'm not sure about tiff because
1:58:17she's been hot and cold on the on the
1:58:18other 3d Zelda game so we'll see but
1:58:21yeah I'm as with as with so many other
1:58:24game consoles that I by if this was the
1:58:27only game I was ever allowed to play on
1:58:28the switch already worth the money see
1:58:31for me I I expect mario kart will
1:58:33probably be that game if not one of the
1:58:35later Mario's but yeah we'll see yeah
1:58:38I've wondered when the mario kart comes
1:58:40out because I'm played mario cart in a
1:58:42long time and and my understanding is
1:58:45it's just like a slight refresh or
1:58:47something like that but either way what
1:58:50it comes out if I give that a shot that
1:58:53might give me enough ammunition to buy
1:58:55the switch be in the reason I say that
1:58:57it's not because i don't think i would
1:58:58love gisele de I think I would but I
1:59:00view that as I would play it once and
1:59:02then be done and I don't know if it's
1:59:04worth what 300 hours to the switch and
1:59:06like seventy dollars six dollars for the
1:59:07Zelda to call it four hundred dollars
1:59:09and you play once as in one sitting or
1:59:11you think you would finish the whole
1:59:12game no no I'm saying over the course of
1:59:14like a month or two maybe I would finish
1:59:15the whole game but I don't know if I
1:59:16want to spend four hundred dollars on
1:59:17Zelda because it I feel like I would
1:59:20play Zell to think wow that was really
1:59:21great i'm glad i did that and then never
1:59:23look at the switch again but if I see
1:59:25like Mario Kart which I know that I've
1:59:27loved previous Mario Kart games if I see
1:59:30that in its yo well reviewed and I get
1:59:33to play it on you know one of my friends
1:59:34consoles and I like it that might change
1:59:37things additionally I've never played
1:59:39splatoon but I've heard nothing but
1:59:40universal praise for it so I believe
1:59:43that's again like a refresh our new
1:59:45version is coming for the switch at some
1:59:46point so maybe if I play that all think
1:59:48oh you know maybe this is worth it but
1:59:50sitting here now i am i'm looking for a
1:59:53reason to spend my money on this thing i
1:59:54just can't come up with it yet if you're
1:59:56gonna play that many games though and
1:59:57you like beer derailing all those things
1:59:57you like beer derailing all those things
2:00:00you think you might play like honestly
2:00:01we better for you to get a ps4 because
2:00:02there are there are so many different
2:00:04choices and franchise like that the next
2:00:06game in my queue for example is a
2:00:07horizon zero dawn which as a terrible
2:00:09title which is also an open-world e-tab
2:00:13game but looks 100 times better because
2:00:14it's on ps4 and you know anyway it's
2:00:17being compared to Zelda a lot but on a
2:00:21ps4 you get that you get the Uncharted
2:00:23series you get all the all the top tier
2:00:25games on antennas thing you just get
2:00:27Nintendo's top to your games so it is
2:00:28slimmer pickings and I feel like you
2:00:31would have a better experience on a on a
2:00:33quote-unquote real TV connected console
2:00:36but for for Nintendo specific franchises
2:00:38Merrick our date I feel like I know what
2:00:40that's going to be because already
2:00:41plated this is a deluxe version right
2:00:43and for me I still miss the driving
2:00:47mechanics Double Dash it's still my
2:00:49favorite but Mara card it was a really
2:00:50good mario kart and just adding more
2:00:52tracks and everything is also going to
2:00:53make it really good but I find as I get
2:00:55older my tolerance for rubber banding AI
2:00:58and racing games is decreasing mightily
2:01:00and and because I was never particularly
2:01:03good at raising games multiplayer is
2:01:06just another another avenue for me to
2:01:08feel frustrated because everyone I play
2:01:11online is a hundred times better than I
2:01:13am so it's almost almost becomes like a
2:01:15party game where like it's only good
2:01:17when you're playing with other people
2:01:18and even then even within my own family
2:01:20it's hard to find people of our scale
2:01:23ranges are too too widely varied right
2:01:25that's the problem and so we we could
2:01:28play four player mario kart but two to
2:01:31three people are going to be really
2:01:32upset because they're never going to win
2:01:34and and that's bad yeah like I'm not
2:01:40entirely sure that you should get a
2:01:42switch Casey I think probably eventually
2:01:47Declan will tell you what you should get
2:01:49and you should just do what he says
2:01:49that's nice yeah not yet but eventually
2:01:52he'll tell you which console you should
2:01:53get and why and you should just listen
2:01:54to him and do that and then maybe you
2:01:56can maybe he can show you the ropes and
2:01:58teach you some things well there's a
2:02:01couple things she's not considering
2:02:02though like number one I classically was
2:02:04a Nintendo kind of guy I had everything
2:02:07up through and including 64 and then was
2:02:10a gamecube and I did not have then I had
2:02:13a wii and I didn't do anything since
2:02:15please skip the gamecube man so many
2:02:18good games such a good controller to be
2:02:20fair a lot of people skip the game keith
2:02:22also true it was less about the hardware
2:02:24more about me just not really being
2:02:26interested in games anymore and and
2:02:28that's the other thing is that you know
2:02:30you're probably right on paper that a
2:02:31ps4 would be a better like a more
2:02:33worthwhile purchase but all of these
2:02:36tops to your games that that any normal
2:02:39human or any normal gamer would would
2:02:42want to play i just don't really have
2:02:44much interest in like I know that I I
2:02:46have played at least one Zelda game I
2:02:48played all of ocarina time and a fair
2:02:51bit of what I whatever was on the way if
2:02:53memory serves Skyward Sword where you
2:02:56wave the controller around to wave the
2:02:57sort no maybe it wasn't the wii then I
2:03:00don't think it was the way yeah if me I
2:03:03don't remember what it was maybe was one
2:03:04for the Gamecube but I played it on the
2:03:06way it doesn't anybody brings us yes I
2:03:08think that's I think was twilight
2:03:09princess now they say that it doesn't
2:03:11really matter though the point is that I
2:03:12the couple that have played I've enjoyed
2:03:13but other than that uh what appeals to
2:03:17me about the switch is that I think it
2:03:19would be great for the party games that
2:03:21I remember from when I was a kid from
2:03:23the nintendo 64 like the equivalents
2:03:25thereof so like mario kart things like
2:03:28goldeneye which I see splatoon kind of
2:03:31filling that void you know what I mean
2:03:33it's it's I don't have a terrible
2:03:35interest in going online and playing
2:03:36strangers because i know i'll get just
2:03:38completely destroyed by eight year olds
2:03:40and that's okay but having a bunch of
2:03:43friends or family or both over and
2:03:45playing sounds really appealing and i
2:03:48was super impressed like God knows if
2:03:51this would work at all or if it would
2:03:53work well but I was super impressed by
2:03:56the like trailer promo video or whatever
2:03:58that came out in October where they had
2:04:01like a portable switch and that's
2:04:04redundant but a switch not docked and
2:04:07they had like two people playing each
2:04:09with their own joy Connor they I think
2:04:11there might have even been one where
2:04:12they have like four people playing or at
2:04:15certainly at another point they had like
2:04:16a series of switches switch I whatever
2:04:19the plural is this particular switch is
2:04:21correct yeah definitely that's done
2:04:23Leah the plural switches switch you guys
2:04:26but anyway they had they had you know
2:04:28several switches all in like a circle
2:04:29and presumably they were all like
2:04:31networked together there was another
2:04:33case where there's like I think a
2:04:34basketball game where they were
2:04:35back-to-back and they were in there a
2:04:38bunch of people playing simultaneously
2:04:39like I have no interest in a basketball
2:04:42game I don't remember what the the group
2:04:45was playing it might have been splatoon
2:04:46but that's sort of a thing is what makes
2:04:49the switch most interested interesting
2:04:51to me and that portability the fact that
2:04:53it can switch ding between being docked
2:04:57and undocked that to me is what I find
2:05:00so interesting about it maybe that's
2:05:02silly maybe that's stupid but I mean
2:05:04that's why emotions are not logic in
2:05:06logic is not emotional I just it's the
2:05:09way I feel I just think that that's
2:05:10what's really neat and interesting about
2:05:12it a lot of people are enjoying playing
2:05:14portable playing like within their own
2:05:15house like playing in bed how so yeah
2:05:18seriously no I think that would apply to
2:05:20me absolutely and I've done it I've done
2:05:22it with the wii u when i was playing
2:05:23Mary hearted for instance and the family
2:05:25wanted to watch a TV I could continue to
2:05:26play mario kart 8 trust on the the wii u
2:05:29gamepad and i came to actually like it
2:05:32that way it's the same thing that got me
2:05:34of the gaming monitor like being closer
2:05:36to the screen being able to see more
2:05:38detail I've done the math and the angles
2:05:41in it but I think it just you can get it
2:05:43to fill more of your fields of you even
2:05:44though I have the 55 inch television I
2:05:46do sit kind of far away from it and I
2:05:48even felt like I know this can't
2:05:50possibly be true maybe it is I don't
2:05:52know I even felt like the input lag was
2:05:54reduced even though the video was being
2:05:56wirelessly sent to this handheld thing
2:05:59like the game was actually playing on
2:06:00the wii u that's attached to my TV and
2:06:01it was wireless sending the video like
2:06:03surely that has more legs than playing
2:06:04it on my actual TV but for whatever
2:06:07reason bottom line is I did better I did
2:06:09I did better against the cursor drummer
2:06:11banding AI and marek our date and in
2:06:14getting 5 stars over 3 stars or whatever
2:06:16it is max writing and all these things
2:06:17to unlock all the stuff I did better
2:06:19when I had it in my hand and I and I
2:06:21found that fun being able to be in the
2:06:22same room as other people but not
2:06:23occupying the giant TV well you know
2:06:26they watch some show and I play this
2:06:28thing have again I haven't done that
2:06:30with the switch yet I've been doing
2:06:31entire line TV mostly because my son and
2:06:34I are playing the new zelda together and
2:06:36anyone else will happen
2:06:37to come with everyone wants to see what
2:06:38we're up to because we're up to some
2:06:40awesome stuff and but then it's easier
2:06:43for us to sit in front of a TV and zelda
2:06:45is not at which game where you have to
2:06:47have like amazing response times and
2:06:48amazing frame rate and it's a good thing
2:06:50because you don't have that but it's
2:06:53more fun for everyone to like look and
2:06:55to be looking at the big screen and
2:06:56admiring the scenery and pointing out
2:06:58the sparkles that I don't see out of the
2:07:00corner of my eye which means that I have
2:07:01to go pick up an arrow that I shot 10
2:07:02minutes ago it sounds like a blast it's
2:07:08awesome well if you ever get bored of
2:07:11yours just send it my way it's not out
2:07:14of but I can't take it out of the doc
2:07:15because I might scratch the screen God
2:07:18you guys are you guys aware of this
2:07:20controversy sintra no mercy so uh people
2:07:24do you know you know that the switch
2:07:26goes into like a little napkin holder
2:07:27thingy the doc yeah mine is in there now
2:07:29it should I be afraid of taking it out
2:07:31somehow somewhere people are getting
2:07:33scratches on like the sides of the
2:07:36screen not the part that lights up but
2:07:38still kind of like a screen surface like
2:07:39the black area and around it and all
2:07:42sorts of Internet photos now like
2:07:43scratches on it like is that is it
2:07:46happening because you're sliding and in
2:07:47and out of the plastic doc and like oh
2:07:49the plastic doc is scratching people
2:07:50switches you need to get a screen
2:07:51protector but then people get screen
2:07:53protectors and the heat from the switch
2:07:54makes the screen protectors peel off and
2:07:55buckle they're saying oh you shouldn't
2:07:56get screen protectors and then someone
2:07:58puts a video of them taking their switch
2:08:00and slamming it in and out it in and
2:08:01then the doc as hard as they possibly
2:08:02can like 50 times and then pulling it
2:08:05out and saying see no scratches so the
2:08:07hell you're doing to scratch your switch
2:08:08it ain't putting in the doc and people
2:08:10like well you don't know my life I put
2:08:12my thing in this would gently three
2:08:13times and it scratched the hell and so
2:08:15like unlike the left joy con thing which
2:08:18is one hundred percent reproducible as
2:08:19far as I'm able to tell in my brief
2:08:21googling around on those scratching
2:08:22things that no one knows what the heck
2:08:24is happening and chances are good that
2:08:28intended wouldn't have shipped something
2:08:29that could have scratched it but the
2:08:30screen is far I think the screen is not
2:08:32glass and so it is conceivable the to
2:08:37plastics could combine in a way that
2:08:39could cause scratches on the non light
2:08:41up part of the screen which will be bad
2:08:42so I have been very very carefully
2:08:45taking my smile at the doc but I was
2:08:48pretty well convinced by that guy going
2:08:51to town
2:08:51his switch his sacrificial switch in his
2:08:53dock and saying look I'm literally
2:08:55squeezing the napkin holder doc it
2:08:57pinched shut as much as I can and
2:08:59jamming this thing that like incredibly
2:09:01rough I'm like if that doesn't scratch
2:09:03it like then what has happened like it
2:09:05do they they could have a grain of sand
2:09:07inside their dock and that would do it
2:09:08because you know all you need is a grain
2:09:10of sand between two little services and
2:09:11you've got scratches out of especially
2:09:12if it's plastic but how to San get in
2:09:16your switch doc so I don't know it's I
2:09:18think that is the least concerning
2:09:20controversy the joy con thing seems like
2:09:22a hardware problem that they're going to
2:09:23have problems with it's just you know
2:09:24people are holding it wrong it's the
2:09:25same thing all over again you get your
2:09:27your big watery meatbags blocking the
2:09:30signal on some bad antenna design makes
2:09:32then you know we've all been there and
2:09:33done that but that doesn't concern me
2:09:35because I'm just going to use the Pearl
2:09:37controller or if I didn't use the pro
2:09:39controller I would use it when their
2:09:40doctors which in which case signal is
2:09:42not an issue you know I may put the
2:09:44things on the side I'm not sure wait
2:09:46whatever it's only a problem when it's
2:09:48in the grip is that what was that what
2:09:49the thing is no it's only a problem when
2:09:51it's in your hand you can use the two
2:09:53joy cons like one in each hand like just
2:09:55holding them like you're on the couch
2:09:57and switches across the room right Oh
2:09:58using the two joy cons like that and
2:10:01when you do that it's possible to wrap
2:10:02your big meaty adult hand entirely
2:10:04around the left joy Khan in a way that
2:10:06blocks the antenna and causes like
2:10:08Bluetooth disconnects right but that so
2:10:10that's the issue everyone's having is
2:10:11only when they're disconnected so if you
2:10:12use it like all together it's fine it's
2:10:15fine yeah cuz I think when it's all
2:10:17together I think it's literally
2:10:18physically connected or if not you
2:10:20certainly can't wrap your hand around
2:10:21the side that's facing the switch
2:10:22because it's you can't get your hand
2:10:24there you know it's connected to this
2:10:25right right right I fix it did like our
2:10:27someone did to tear down to show where
2:10:28the little antennas and show the like if
2:10:30you attach an extra antenna wire and
2:10:31trace it put in a different position
2:10:33like you're able to make it much harder
2:10:34to stop with your hand but you know it's
2:10:37it's iphone 4 type situation all over
2:10:39again so i'm i'm not concerned about us
2:10:40why didn't i was no way i would wait for
2:10:42like oh wait for they make a new
2:10:44hardware revision to fix this problem
2:10:45which they probably will but it's no way
2:10:46in hell i'm waiting i want to play zelda
2:10:48if I don't succeed in getting a pro
2:10:51controller anytime soon is it isn't an
2:10:54acceptable substitute to use either the
2:10:57little plastic thing that comes with it
2:10:58or to buy the thirty dollar while
2:11:01charging grip to just use the joy cons
2:11:04as a
2:11:05troller you can try and see what i mean
2:11:07the buttons are super-tiny on those joy
2:11:09cons and the autistic is very tiny and
2:11:11it's all kind of small and tiny and
2:11:12awkward and I wouldn't choose to do it
2:11:14with my hands but a lot of people are
2:11:17discovering what I discovered why would
2:11:18I have to do with your hands yeah
2:11:20ergonomically speaking having your left
2:11:24and right hand not joined by like not
2:11:26holding on to a rigid thing you know to
2:11:28me like to be able to separate them like
2:11:29you do with the nunchuck in the wiimote
2:11:31or whatever mmm is argan amelie great
2:11:33for anyone who has kind of RSI issues
2:11:34because you can put your wrists and
2:11:36hands in more neutral positions you're
2:11:38not forced to like with the keyboard you
2:11:40know you're not forced to align your
2:11:42fingers with the home keys well I split
2:11:44keyboard lets your wrists be more
2:11:45neutral or whatever so with the separate
2:11:48controllers a lot of people are either
2:11:50discovering for the first time are
2:11:51rediscovering how comfortable it can be
2:11:53to have those have to completely
2:11:56independent not attached by anything
2:11:58controllers and you can put your hands
2:12:00however is most comfortable for you and
2:12:01just use your thumbs in your fingers to
2:12:03maybe I think I just think they're too
2:12:04small for my hands for the size of my
2:12:06hands but you know your mileage may vary
2:12:08so try it away and a little the little
2:12:10doggie thing I haven't even tried it in
2:12:12that the grip seems fine or whatever it
2:12:14was like honestly why would I ever why
2:12:15would I ever put those things into the
2:12:17little doggie grip when I have the
2:12:18program draw ripe but I don't see myself
2:12:20ever doing that cool I will try to get a
2:12:23pro controller and try to actually
2:12:24download Zelda and might be working ABS
2:12:27by the way speaking of companies that
2:12:28won't let you give it a my sony is the
2:12:30worst at this every time i want to buy
2:12:32something on sony's thing like it
2:12:36probably is my fault for treating this
2:12:38like my expiration date of my credit
2:12:40card change because I got a new card
2:12:41issued or whatever and maybe I went
2:12:45through and tried to do the purpose you
2:12:46before purchase before I had updated the
2:12:48car it's like oh you know whatever your
2:12:49purchase didn't go through it's like oh
2:12:50yeah I got update the expiration date so
2:12:52I go update the expiration date and
2:12:54change to the new one but it just still
2:12:57won't let you purchase I delete that
2:12:58credit card enter Neverland molavi
2:13:00purchase and I'd like how many times
2:13:01have I done this every time I go to buy
2:13:02something it's like guess what Sony will
2:13:04not let you buy anything with any credit
2:13:05card with this credit card with a new
2:13:07credit card I go through like every
2:13:08credit card I own nope nope nope nope no
2:13:10but it's because they do this like 24 to
2:13:1248 hour lockout to prevent fraud when
2:13:14they think there's some sort of problem
2:13:15like and you google for you see a
2:13:17million p
2:13:18getting payment failures for drying
2:13:20buying stuff in the Playstations or it
2:13:21is so incredibly common and so I think
2:13:24for the past three times i have bought
2:13:26things because i buy all downloadable
2:13:27for a ps4 i don't buy plastic discs if i
2:13:29can help it for the past three times
2:13:31here's how i buy things on the sony
2:13:33store i go to amazon i buy a digital
2:13:35download code for twenty dollars of that
2:13:37bread and get the code I enter into this
2:13:39thing like there's no I don't lose any
2:13:41money in the deal except for the money
2:13:42that's left over that's how i buy things
2:13:44on sony stupid store because they won't
2:13:45take my friggin money they also accept
2:13:47paypal but screw paypal