96: Blue Peter
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as a wise man once said Dan don't give a
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date that leads to the dark side this is
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hypercritical a weekly talk show
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ruminating on exactly what is wrong in
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the world of Apple and related
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technologies and businesses nothing is
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so perfect that it can't be complained
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about by my friend and your host John
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siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin today is
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Friday November 30th 2012 this is
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episode number 96 and there are only a
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hundred only a few left to go I know
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like to say thanks very much to our
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three sponsors koku over koku app com
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shutterstock.com and source bits dot-com
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and we'll tell you more about those as
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the program continues I also like to say
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thank you very much to my node there are
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bandwidth sponsor for the whole month of
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November there an intuitive mind mapping
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app for mac and iOS whether you're
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brainstorming for your next project
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organizing your life or planning your
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vacation my node lets you collect
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structure and expand your ideas that I
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cloud sharing they got it all check them
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out at my node com hi John Oh Dan how is
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everything going just fine I didn't see
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you online I was worried no you are
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Miriam you're hiding I'm hiding in plain
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sight is they say yep all right a lot of
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notes on today's show I can't tell when
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I have a lot of notes if it will be long
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or short but I do have a lot of notes so
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we better get going let's do it what
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should we start with do you think why I
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am not privy to your notes so I I don't
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know we start with follow-up dan what do
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you think oh well I don't I love
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follow-up I love the follow-up segment
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alright first bit of fall is about the
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wii u we talked about in the past couple
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sure now let me I have an announcement
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to make alright already already a wii u
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a black deluxe wii u is winging its way
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to you hopefully for arrival to you next
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week well that's excellent dan thank you
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very much and thank you do whoever hell
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to source that that will remain a secret
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until later my secret benefactor that's
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right I mean I'm the benefactor but they
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were the middleman and they will be they
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will be well compensated for their
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efforts or middle woman middle and
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middle man okay it's fifty percent
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forty-nine percent of the population
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ruled in 51% ruled out so once this
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arrives I'll have to immediately unpack
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it and set it up and try to do some
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playing and then we'll see what showed
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that ends up fitting in yeah you know
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cuz i have to i like a lot of these
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games are multiplayer so I'm gonna have
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to enlist the family to you know kid
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test the game and mom test it and you
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know all sorts of other stuff so I will
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report back yes this will be excited but
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it's the black that not here's a
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question do you it the the wii u comes
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with them like the one controller with
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the screen in it and the deluxe set has
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like a little bass and little charger
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and comes with a game and some other
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things um it will that be sufficient for
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your testing will you because I
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understand it uses you can use like
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regular we style controllers and things
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like that with it do you feel like
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you're said it has an hdmi connector I
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mean are you set up to go is there
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anything else you'll need to give this
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the proper check out or anything I think
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I've got everything I've got a bucket
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full of like old we accessories I've got
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plenty of wiimotes and nunchuck
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controllers of course they're white not
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black but what can you do the way
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Nintendo has decided to do it stuff I
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really wish they had offered two colors
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in two different models and then I would
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have gotten a deluxe one in white right
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that's not what they did but anyway I
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have all the peripherals and I should be
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all set on everything else I I may end
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up eventually getting the the pro
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controller but I don't think you even
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need that to play any of the launch
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games or anything well I went I went to
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sort of potentially source another
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controller for you as I was resour
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researching all of this and I went and
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it's I asked first of all the pro
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controllers that they're larger they're
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more like I don't know can I say an Xbox
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style yeah they clearly look like an
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Xbox controller okay and I'm assuming
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wireless as opposed to courted but those
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things are really tough to find like
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almost if not as hard as the Wii U
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console itself defined right now yeah I
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imagined I mean eventually I'll get
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enough peripherals and stuff like that
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but immediately I just expect to use the
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system and the transfer process from the
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wii and then play the pac ingame which
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is supposed to demonstrate all the
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different features of the you know lots
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of different games that use the
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controllers in lots of different ways so
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that'll be a good test I think what
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games will you this is yours to keep
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just to be clear this isn't you know
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this isn't a loaner this is yours well
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will you be able to get your own games
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for do we need to send some games along
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maybe we'll send some games I don't know
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how many the launch titles I'm
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interested in like I'm er actually was
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I'm meriden in the oh yeah probably that
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one although I do prefer the 3d marios
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to the 2d ones but I the Nintendo land
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game that it comes with should be
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sufficient to put the thing through its
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paces and zombie you even though it
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looks interesting to me i don't think i
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would actually play that mmm yeah so
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anyway uh so sorry to interrupt with you
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the early i guess it's gonna be a long
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show but i just wanted to ban is
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declared it yeah he has called it the
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first time alright yes this is the first
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bit is tweet from cable sasser the I
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mean intimate community member founder
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of panic software who's also a gamer and
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he tweeted that the Wii U gamepad is
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really good at pointing out AV delays in
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your home theater so he says he put his
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TV into game mode which we've talked
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about in past shows it's the mode some
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televisions have to reduce the number of
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processing steps they do to video in the
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hopes of reducing the latency between
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the time the signal hits the back of the
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TV and the time that that picture
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appears on the television and he says
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he's put his receiver in pure direct
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mode if you have a receiver between your
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game console and your television
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sometimes the receivers have a mode that
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will also not try to do any processing
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on the audio or the video or whatever
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because the reason it shows delays is
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because the wii u sends the wireless
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video signal directly to
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the gamepad and then you can see like if
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you run it where it's running the same
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thing on both screens you can see that
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wow look and you can visually without
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even measuring equipment just see that
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the gamepad is ahead of where your
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television is despite the fact that we
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talked about in the last show that the
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gamepad is actually one sixtieth of a
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second behind the signal coming out of
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the back of the wii u along the hdmi
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cable but all the other parts of your
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system may be introducing delays and it
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ends up that it looks like the gamepad
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is way ahead so that's an interesting
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result of this technology that people
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are going to find out exactly how much
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lag is in there a be setups as another
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article that someone sent along our
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bunch people sent along it is on
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VentureBeat it's the title is forget the
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sixaxis which is the name of
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Playstations terrible little controller
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with the accelerometers in it the Wii
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U's gamepad has nine axis control it's
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like the Gillette razor thing you know
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method we're doing five blades are
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that's the onion story but it became a
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reality right this preposterous they'd
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never do five blades what a joke and now
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it's like can we dude can we do 69
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access control are there nine axes how
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many X's are there it seems like they
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should only be XY and Z but now they're
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doing 90 so if you read the article i
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linked to in the show notes you will see
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that what they're basically doing is as
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far as i can understand from this
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article adding more redundant sensors in
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an effort to be able to filter out noise
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and stuff like that so the article talks
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about the difference between you know
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accelerometers and stuff that you can
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envision kind of as like a this is not
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what they actually are but imagine a
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t-shaped wooden channel with it with a
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steel ball in it or something and if you
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tilt it the steel ball rolls to one end
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of the thing or the other and there's
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another steel ball going in the left and
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right one you know like that's measuring
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you're tilting in different axes and
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stuff and a lot of those things are just
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relative what you also need is absolute
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positioning so you can say regardless
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support I just did with this device I
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shook it I wave did I moved from left to
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right really quickly what is the
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absolute orientation with respect to you
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know basically gravity with respect to
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the earth and so you all sorts of things
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to try to figure that out including
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sensors that measure the Earth's
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magnetic field to sort of you know to
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tell where is this thing pointing in
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absolute space relative to
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the floor of your room or whatever
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regardless of how it got there how it
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shook her how it was wiggled or how you
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know so we can keep track of where it is
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and apparently the gamepad has many more
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sensors and many more sophisticated
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systems to do this even better than the
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wii motionplus it's in the existing wii
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remote controls so i'm looking forward
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to seeing how much that improves thinks
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and I really hope as does this article
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that they backport this tech to the wii
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remote controls because anything you can
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do to you know it's not like a new
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feature that we were no control supposed
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to already do this but anyone who's
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played Skyward Sword on the wii knows
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that you have to you know recenter it
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and recalibrate and do all the stuffs
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and then that we use is the IR signaled
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as a sort of less resort orientation
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mechanism where the IR signal is coming
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from the top your television in a fixed
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position I'm going to really lose itself
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if you can point it back towards the TV
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you can recalibrate it and it's kind of
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a big mess hopefully the gamepad does
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better so I'm looking forward to seeing
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how well that goes Steve holes are
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burdened with a minor point about video
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latency on the Wii U gamepad he pointed
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out the gamepad's resolution is 854 x
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480 it's not the full resolution of like
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a 1080p television which is 1920 x 1080
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and it's not even you know 720p which is
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nineteen richest 1280 by 720 and so
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saying you know that the way you
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probably scales down the video for
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transmitting and you say well that's why
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it makes it easier doesn't need to send
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the full signal well that's bandwidth
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wise that's true but latency wise
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scaling down the signal actually adds
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latency so it's even more impressive
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that it can match take the video output
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scale it down and then send the scaled
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down version but it does mean that
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things on the gamepad might not look as
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crisp if any games are actually
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outputting 1080p however the thing about
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console games is almost all console
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►
games have a much smaller render target
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than the output resolution it's one of
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the tricks they do to get performance as
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they will the game will be rendered at a
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resolution that's smaller than 1080p and
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sometimes even smaller than 720p just
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►
and then that's that's the native pixels
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of the game edge right and then some
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►
other part of the GPU right before being
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out outputting the thing will just
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►
simply scale that image up to fill 720p
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►
or to fill 1080p so a lot of the and
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►
this should be scare quotes around a lot
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►
of the games and say that this game is
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in 720p or this game
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►
isn't a 1080p like a lot of the time the
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game is rendering at a resolution
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►
smaller than both of those and just
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►
simply upscaling for those different
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►
resolutions and the games that are truly
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►
native 1080p and 720p come more common
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►
with time but in the current generation
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►
of consoles which have similar power to
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►
the wii u mini games still render have
[TS]
◼
►
smaller render targets than the output
[TS]
◼
►
target nothing is ever simple you know
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►
no it isn't alright so last week i
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned the idea that regular people
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◼
►
who were interested in this topic could
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◼
►
learn about how computers work from the
[TS]
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►
gate level on up from you know and
[TS]
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►
didn't and gates and stuff like that all
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►
the way up to how a modern computer
[TS]
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►
works if you chop off the low end like
[TS]
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►
not learning about chemistry and physics
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►
and doping and silicon chips and stuff
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◼
►
like that that removes a lot of the
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►
really esoteric difficult understand
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◼
►
stuff but from the gates on up it's
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►
something that really anyone can
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►
understand and i said that didn't know
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►
of any good resources to learn that you
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►
know other than going to school for four
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years we're just kind of burdensome and
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►
so i got a lot of suggestions and
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►
amazingly i got two suggestions
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►
repeatedly for many other people like it
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◼
►
was basically I don't think again it's
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►
just two suggestions and tons of people
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◼
►
suggested these few things by Twitter
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◼
►
and email and stuff so they must be
[TS]
◼
►
really good the first one is the book
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►
called code by Charles petzold at yeah
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◼
►
petzl that's right the hidden language
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►
again from computer hardware and
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◼
►
software is link in the show notes
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◼
►
Kieran Healy was the first one suggested
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►
he says is that it begins with a lovely
[TS]
◼
►
conceptual introduction to boolean logic
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◼
►
and build step by step up to a tour of
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►
the motorola 68000 series and the intel
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►
8080 and from there to integrated
[TS]
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►
motherboards and programming languages
[TS]
◼
►
it's really beautifully constructed
[TS]
◼
►
wonderfully clear book a minor classic
[TS]
◼
►
really and someone else whose name i
[TS]
◼
►
shamefully did not include in the show
[TS]
◼
►
notes but emailed right after here and
[TS]
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►
says it explains how to build a computer
[TS]
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►
from the ground up in a very accessible
[TS]
◼
►
way starts with information theory in
[TS]
◼
►
Morse code and then from telegraphy you
[TS]
◼
►
know using a telegraph relays to logic
[TS]
◼
►
gates on words to building ram cpu and
[TS]
◼
►
whatnot there's recommended by a friend
[TS]
◼
►
and it blew my mind that is possible to
[TS]
◼
►
explain this stuff in an accessible way
[TS]
◼
►
so if you want a book to learn this
[TS]
◼
►
stuff there you go charles pets olds
[TS]
◼
►
code which is an older book but this
[TS]
◼
►
stuff really hasn't changed and these
[TS]
◼
►
second very popular suggestion was a
[TS]
◼
►
website / sort of build it yourself
[TS]
◼
►
course material / video series / text
[TS]
◼
►
book / you know internet multimedia
[TS]
◼
►
extravaganza it is called from NAND to
[TS]
◼
►
Tetris building am under modern computer
[TS]
◼
►
from first principles the website is
[TS]
◼
►
triple w nand to the number to tetris
[TS]
◼
►
org also in the show notes as the site
[TS]
◼
►
says it contains all the software tools
[TS]
◼
►
and project materials necessary to build
[TS]
◼
►
a general-purpose computer system from
[TS]
◼
►
the ground up we also provide a set of
[TS]
◼
►
lecture is designed to support a typical
[TS]
◼
►
course on the subject this is aimed
[TS]
◼
►
students instructors and self learners
[TS]
◼
►
everything is free and open source blah
[TS]
◼
►
blah so there you go you have two ways
[TS]
◼
►
to take a crack of this one if you just
[TS]
◼
►
want to read a book that's a great book
[TS]
◼
►
and if you want to sort of do it
[TS]
◼
►
interactively online or watch videos or
[TS]
◼
►
sort of do it do it yourself course you
[TS]
◼
►
want man to tetris good old internet
[TS]
◼
►
it's got something for everything this
[TS]
◼
►
next one is a bit of follow-up from two
[TS]
◼
►
shows ago but i missed it it was in the
[TS]
◼
►
show notes somehow i missed it but my
[TS]
◼
►
new thing lately i put something in the
[TS]
◼
►
notes and then just scan over it it's a
[TS]
◼
►
shame ah moore's law was mentioned many
[TS]
◼
►
shows ago and i had said on the show
[TS]
◼
►
that maybe i did maybe remember i do
[TS]
◼
►
things forgetting that i've already done
[TS]
◼
►
this fall if any way you can tell me i
[TS]
◼
►
might say that's an i don't care how
[TS]
◼
►
many times you follow people love this i
[TS]
◼
►
love it that moore's law was two years
[TS]
◼
►
or was one year i listed originally and
[TS]
◼
►
it's actually two years is from the
[TS]
◼
►
wikipedia article Moore's Law is the
[TS]
◼
►
observation that blah blah blah the
[TS]
◼
►
number of transistors on integrated
[TS]
◼
►
circuit doubles approximately every two
[TS]
◼
►
years and it says the period is often
[TS]
◼
►
quoted as 18 months due to Intel
[TS]
◼
►
executive David house who predicted that
[TS]
◼
►
period for doubling and ship performance
[TS]
◼
►
which is not quite the same thing as a
[TS]
◼
►
number of transistors in his kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
fudgy anyway so or was original law two
[TS]
◼
►
years often quoted as 18 months and
[TS]
◼
►
often misquoted by me as 12 months
[TS]
◼
►
apparently so apologize for the error
[TS]
◼
►
there one more random one before we get
[TS]
◼
►
to some Intel arm stuff which is
[TS]
◼
►
producing even more follow up this from
[TS]
◼
►
Andrew Burwell he was one of the many
[TS]
◼
►
people to grant me this story on makanan
[TS]
◼
►
that says OS ten ten point eight point
[TS]
◼
►
three beta supports the radeon HD 7900
[TS]
◼
►
this is nothing are straddling but it is
[TS]
◼
►
exciting whenever we see a new beta of
[TS]
◼
►
OS 10 with new video drivers because it
[TS]
◼
►
suggests that future max are coming that
[TS]
◼
►
support that include this hardware cuz
[TS]
◼
►
otherwise why would I would Apple have
[TS]
◼
►
drivers for it right and this hardware
[TS]
◼
►
is radeon is it AMD / 80 is like top-end
[TS]
◼
►
very fast video cards and where would
[TS]
◼
►
they put a card like that I suppose they
[TS]
◼
►
could put one in an imac maybe it'd mean
[TS]
◼
►
they have room in there they could come
[TS]
◼
►
up with the cooling solution but it just
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't seem like what they normally do
[TS]
◼
►
and so this it's heavily towards
[TS]
◼
►
something Mac Pro caliber which we all
[TS]
◼
►
hope is coming in 2013 again Tim Cook
[TS]
◼
►
said something for people who like mac
[TS]
◼
►
pros will be coming in 2013 if that
[TS]
◼
►
something has this video card you know a
[TS]
◼
►
card from this video card series I guess
[TS]
◼
►
you would call them I would be very
[TS]
◼
►
happy so all things are continuing a
[TS]
◼
►
pace for 2013 resurrection of something
[TS]
◼
►
that will make me happy that may or may
[TS]
◼
►
not be a mac pro so thumbs up on that in
[TS]
◼
►
the show notes if you would like to
[TS]
◼
►
oggle the the details sugar turns 5 by 5
[TS]
◼
►
that TV such hypercritical / 96 yes
[TS]
◼
►
what's the next part we have is all the
[TS]
◼
►
Intel follow-up jeez it's like I have
[TS]
◼
►
show all by itself e I've got Intel
[TS]
◼
►
follow-up and then a couple
[TS]
◼
►
miscellaneous follow-ups and then the
[TS]
◼
►
shows topic the Intel foul-up could be
[TS]
◼
►
long should we should we do a sponsor
[TS]
◼
►
before then then you can just dive right
[TS]
◼
►
in and take all the time you need but it
[TS]
◼
►
gets a good idea koku that is it koku or
[TS]
◼
►
Co Co Co Q coke you I've been saying it
[TS]
◼
►
wrong it's a fresh approach for personal
[TS]
◼
►
finance management doesn't matter how
[TS]
◼
►
you say it it's designed to make
[TS]
◼
►
tracking your money simple and intuitive
[TS]
◼
►
and now you can get this for the mac for
[TS]
◼
►
the iphone in both of the app stores
[TS]
◼
►
this is what's cool about it the apps
[TS]
◼
►
they sync via iCloud so your data stays
[TS]
◼
►
consistent whether you're at home
[TS]
◼
►
whether you're on the go and this is my
[TS]
◼
►
favorite part of the app is it's got
[TS]
◼
►
this smart tagging system it allows you
[TS]
◼
►
to describe the transactions that you
[TS]
◼
►
make in a way that's meaningful to you
[TS]
◼
►
it doesn't impose its own hierarchy it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't impose buckets or cat
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's about how you work how you
[TS]
◼
►
track your own finances you define it
[TS]
◼
►
and then you use these reports that'll
[TS]
◼
►
show a personalized financial picture
[TS]
◼
►
that gives it a real insight into how
[TS]
◼
►
you're spending your money or not
[TS]
◼
►
spending your money John based on those
[TS]
◼
►
categories that you've created that is
[TS]
◼
►
smart lists ooh they're kind of like
[TS]
◼
►
smart playlists but there for your
[TS]
◼
►
transactions so you can actually see it
[TS]
◼
►
the way you want to see it they were
[TS]
◼
►
featured in the mac app store but the
[TS]
◼
►
great thing is that both apps are on
[TS]
◼
►
sale now during this special run they're
[TS]
◼
►
doing with us for half price so it's
[TS]
◼
►
2999 for the mac and a 499 for the
[TS]
◼
►
iphone is the regular price half price
[TS]
◼
►
now half price 1499 for the mac buck 99
[TS]
◼
►
for the iphone co q app kok you AP p dot
[TS]
◼
►
com go check them out Coco AB they're
[TS]
◼
►
really awesome Intel well we saw that we
[TS]
◼
►
got some real time follow up in the chat
[TS]
◼
►
room first I've been interests if he
[TS]
◼
►
thinks they'll be an improvement on the
[TS]
◼
►
controls on wii games when playing on
[TS]
◼
►
the wii u if they release new wiimotes
[TS]
◼
►
with the new internals new improved
[TS]
◼
►
internals i think there could be because
[TS]
◼
►
as far as the wii system is concerned
[TS]
◼
►
when we use in wii emulation well they
[TS]
◼
►
would still just like look like a normal
[TS]
◼
►
wii remote it would just have like you
[TS]
◼
►
know it would just be more reliable more
[TS]
◼
►
difficult to confuse and you know maybe
[TS]
◼
►
you know it should look the same it
[TS]
◼
►
should just be better so that is
[TS]
◼
►
actually possible if they did that but
[TS]
◼
►
it's not going to make an improvement
[TS]
◼
►
who's you can't play wii games with the
[TS]
◼
►
gamepad right so it's not gonna do it
[TS]
◼
►
improvement too late unless they release
[TS]
◼
►
improved wii u controls o mine Fed wants
[TS]
◼
►
me to come back at 2013 when i get my
[TS]
◼
►
new mac pro so we can have a worry about
[TS]
◼
►
that if and when it happens dan Hickson
[TS]
◼
►
wants to say that ogle has a long oh
[TS]
◼
►
it's not oggle i always say oggle i know
[TS]
◼
►
i guess it doesn't come up in
[TS]
◼
►
conversation a lot but yeah he's right
[TS]
◼
►
it's a long ago sorry about that all
[TS]
◼
►
right intel a quick review this is all
[TS]
◼
►
about apple and whether they're going to
[TS]
◼
►
use intel chips and their macs and what
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's position
[TS]
◼
►
is relative to arm the other various arm
[TS]
◼
►
CPUs and all that business so at one
[TS]
◼
►
point in talking about risk and siskin
[TS]
◼
►
until an arm i talked about segment
[TS]
◼
►
registers on intel cpus which were used
[TS]
◼
►
way back when to address memory in a
[TS]
◼
►
segmented manner where your memory
[TS]
◼
►
addresses in your code would be offsets
[TS]
◼
►
from a segment and you'd change the
[TS]
◼
►
segment register and then the offsets
[TS]
◼
►
would be relative to that and all sorts
[TS]
◼
►
of stuff like that which is not use
[TS]
◼
►
nowadays in modern architectures but
[TS]
◼
►
still exists on the cpus for backward
[TS]
◼
►
compatibility and i said that how if
[TS]
◼
►
they could remove one feature to
[TS]
◼
►
simplify intel cpus my anonymous source
[TS]
◼
►
said that segmentation would be the one
[TS]
◼
►
to remove well daniel cohen wrote in to
[TS]
◼
►
point out the interesting things that
[TS]
◼
►
people are doing one of the interesting
[TS]
◼
►
things that people are doing with the
[TS]
◼
►
segment registers in Google's Native
[TS]
◼
►
Client project which I have link in the
[TS]
◼
►
show notes it's their way to you know
[TS]
◼
►
run native code on your machine but
[TS]
◼
►
delivered via the web it's not you know
[TS]
◼
►
job our JavaScript or whatever they do a
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of really clever hacks to run
[TS]
◼
►
untrusted x86 code sort of in a sandbox
[TS]
◼
►
in a way that is safer because they
[TS]
◼
►
don't want you know you to load a
[TS]
◼
►
webpage and then it runs arbitrary code
[TS]
◼
►
on your cpu because that would be bad
[TS]
◼
►
alright so they need some way to to lock
[TS]
◼
►
it down and they they use segmentation
[TS]
◼
►
the segment registers as a means of
[TS]
◼
►
enforcing that kind of security and
[TS]
◼
►
there's a paper where they describe how
[TS]
◼
►
this is done it's in the show notes to
[TS]
◼
►
PDF if you want to take a look at that
[TS]
◼
►
other cpus of similar ways to do similar
[TS]
◼
►
things it's not like segment registers
[TS]
◼
►
are the only way to do this but i
[TS]
◼
►
thought it was interesting because it
[TS]
◼
►
shows the resourcefulness of engineers
[TS]
◼
►
that they're finding something useful to
[TS]
◼
►
do with a feature it's not no longer
[TS]
◼
►
needed for its old intended purpose but
[TS]
◼
►
still exists on the hardware for
[TS]
◼
►
backward compatibility reasons i we can
[TS]
◼
►
use the hardware for something so that's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting and then the second use is
[TS]
◼
►
from andrew oh goodness andrew big house
[TS]
◼
►
goss oh goodness i got nothing on that
[TS]
◼
►
one sv e ik au s Kas sorry andrew should
[TS]
◼
►
have practiced it's amazing how i copy
[TS]
◼
►
and paste these names into my show
[TS]
◼
►
moment and never think that you know you
[TS]
◼
►
can have to say this name maybe take a
[TS]
◼
►
so like during the show you aren't
[TS]
◼
►
surprised but but you know there you go
[TS]
◼
►
eight points out that the x86 segment
[TS]
◼
►
registers are used to define privilege
[TS]
◼
►
levels you know ring 0 ring one whatever
[TS]
◼
►
in in windows are in you know some x86
[TS]
◼
►
operating systems and windows also uses
[TS]
◼
►
them for thread-local storage and if you
[TS]
◼
►
don't know what that ring 0 businesses I
[TS]
◼
►
put a link in the show notes to the
[TS]
◼
►
relevant Wikipedia page it's about
[TS]
◼
►
protection domains where the most
[TS]
◼
►
privileged code runs in ring 0 I hope I
[TS]
◼
►
got that right or not backwards and you
[TS]
◼
►
know see you I you the code runs in a
[TS]
◼
►
different ring it has different
[TS]
◼
►
privileges and stuff like that so that's
[TS]
◼
►
another interesting use of the segment
[TS]
◼
►
registers but just maybe closer to their
[TS]
◼
►
intended purpose but still kind of weird
[TS]
◼
►
let me check that out if you're
[TS]
◼
►
interesting alright moving on to the
[TS]
◼
►
meteor business stuff here 9to5 mac had
[TS]
◼
►
a story this week with a great prefix
[TS]
◼
►
you know they do that bunch of words
[TS]
◼
►
colon and then the headline so they're
[TS]
◼
►
they're prefixes wild speculation Cohen
[TS]
◼
►
alright well you know you're being
[TS]
◼
►
you're being honest right wild
[TS]
◼
►
speculation Cohen y 2 billion dollar AMD
[TS]
◼
►
purchase would be a puzzle piece fit for
[TS]
◼
►
Apple hmm way to turn a phrase their
[TS]
◼
►
puzzle piece fit okay that link is in
[TS]
◼
►
the show notes the idea is hey hey guys
[TS]
◼
►
what have happened what AMD because they
[TS]
◼
►
make x86 CPUs and even though Apple thus
[TS]
◼
►
far has not chosen to go with them
[TS]
◼
►
because intel has better CPUs for less
[TS]
◼
►
money that use less power that are
[TS]
◼
►
faster and blah blah blah blah blah AMD
[TS]
◼
►
might have some good stuff too yeah
[TS]
◼
►
they're out there trying to sell their
[TS]
◼
►
texas campus to raise money and then
[TS]
◼
►
they want to like get it back they're
[TS]
◼
►
gonna sell it unlikely sit back for ya
[TS]
◼
►
something i don't know it's weird yeah
[TS]
◼
►
but like and the reason this comes up as
[TS]
◼
►
cuz AMD is like as is not doing that
[TS]
◼
►
well like so people you know people look
[TS]
◼
►
at it and look into a plane maybe Apple
[TS]
◼
►
could buy them because hey maybe you get
[TS]
◼
►
a cheap cuz like they're not doing
[TS]
◼
►
terribly but in the Intel vs AMD war
[TS]
◼
►
which it once looked like AMD might be
[TS]
◼
►
getting the upper hand now it's like oh
[TS]
◼
►
poor AMD right so yeah I mean Intel's
[TS]
◼
►
got its own problems too but AMD may be
[TS]
◼
►
a bargain so thinking about this I mean
[TS]
◼
►
first of all Apple certainly has the
[TS]
◼
►
money you know they
[TS]
◼
►
of a 100 billion or more in cash and you
[TS]
◼
►
know AMD they could buy for only a
[TS]
◼
►
couple billion so yeah it's bargain and
[TS]
◼
►
it would be a way to get some really
[TS]
◼
►
great CPU and GPU town because remember
[TS]
◼
►
AMD bought a TI and so they've got the
[TS]
◼
►
all the people from ati are part of that
[TS]
◼
►
that deal and those guys really no
[TS]
◼
►
high-end GPUs and that's some great
[TS]
◼
►
talent and as much as I'm loath to even
[TS]
◼
►
think about things like this I'm sure
[TS]
◼
►
they have tons of patents from a TI and
[TS]
◼
►
AMD is probably got its own patents and
[TS]
◼
►
AMD as we noted before is the one who
[TS]
◼
►
invented x86 64 and yeah so there are
[TS]
◼
►
valuable assets in AMD I don't but the
[TS]
◼
►
thing about it is I don't think Apple
[TS]
◼
►
really wants to continue making CPUs and
[TS]
◼
►
GPUs so if they bought AMD it would
[TS]
◼
►
probably mean the end of selling x86 CPU
[TS]
◼
►
to PC clone makers and it might even be
[TS]
◼
►
the end of selling discrete GPUs to you
[TS]
◼
►
know PC makers like they would just
[TS]
◼
►
become oh this is our new cpu and GPU
[TS]
◼
►
team and i don't even know how you swing
[TS]
◼
►
that because they're all geographically
[TS]
◼
►
I you know diverse and located in
[TS]
◼
►
different offices all over the place and
[TS]
◼
►
there's tons of weird redundancy with
[TS]
◼
►
apple and it seems to me that a buyout
[TS]
◼
►
would mean the end of AMD as we know it
[TS]
◼
►
Apple would get the patents but I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know how much of the staff they would
[TS]
◼
►
retain it would be like an expensive
[TS]
◼
►
ugly unreliable way to buy talent but on
[TS]
◼
►
the other hand I this article points out
[TS]
◼
►
and as Apple said itself and its press
[TS]
◼
►
release about the big mens rea move shop
[TS]
◼
►
reshuffle to be talked about a few shows
[TS]
◼
►
ago Apple did say it has quote ambitious
[TS]
◼
►
plans for the future unquote for its
[TS]
◼
►
semiconductor teams so that would sure
[TS]
◼
►
be ambitious you know by AMD and try to
[TS]
◼
►
make your own stuff using all those
[TS]
◼
►
talented teams it just it just seems
[TS]
◼
►
like a not a particularly easy business
[TS]
◼
►
deal to me and part of me is like if you
[TS]
◼
►
wait long enough they might go out of
[TS]
◼
►
business and you can scoop those guys up
[TS]
◼
►
for a lot less money you know yeah or
[TS]
◼
►
Intel would just hire them all I mean
[TS]
◼
►
with hiring people people like to think
[TS]
◼
►
it's like oh if we if we get AMD we get
[TS]
◼
►
all those people are we can hire all
[TS]
◼
►
those people's like no because they all
[TS]
◼
►
live all over the country and especially
[TS]
◼
►
apple doesn't really like people to be
[TS]
◼
►
like they like to have you in California
[TS]
◼
►
if they can help but especially if
[TS]
◼
►
you're you know working on some mage
[TS]
◼
►
part of their product strategy they have
[TS]
◼
►
different campuses in other places and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff but they really don't like
[TS]
◼
►
telecommuting and it would be very
[TS]
◼
►
difficult to sort of take all of AMD
[TS]
◼
►
scattered people from AMD proper and a
[TS]
◼
►
TI and somehow make remote campuses or
[TS]
◼
►
research facilities that contribute to
[TS]
◼
►
is just I don't you know you like it
[TS]
◼
►
those people say oh well we're all going
[TS]
◼
►
to move our families to California and
[TS]
◼
►
live right near and cheese yeah it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's very difficult to hire people not
[TS]
◼
►
because you can't pay them enough or
[TS]
◼
►
they don't like you but because they
[TS]
◼
►
want to live where they live like that
[TS]
◼
►
is a big factor in hiring people if
[TS]
◼
►
you're raising a family a certain place
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's very difficult for any
[TS]
◼
►
employer to convince you for any
[TS]
◼
►
reasonable lot of money to uproot your
[TS]
◼
►
entire family move someplace else
[TS]
◼
►
alright next story is from semi accurate
[TS]
◼
►
which is a clever website name and from
[TS]
◼
►
what glean from reading couple of
[TS]
◼
►
stories there it is accurate yeah right
[TS]
◼
►
the title d sensational title is Intel
[TS]
◼
►
kills off the desktop pcs go with it
[TS]
◼
►
this is an article from someone who
[TS]
◼
►
obviously does not like this decision
[TS]
◼
►
bemoaning the fact that broadwell will
[TS]
◼
►
not come in an LG a package so that no
[TS]
◼
►
more removable CPU so broad whale is the
[TS]
◼
►
14 nanometer shrink of Haswell coming
[TS]
◼
►
you know after as well uh and intel has
[TS]
◼
►
said that they're not going to give you
[TS]
◼
►
one of those on an LG a package LGA
[TS]
◼
►
stands for land grid array and it's like
[TS]
◼
►
a mounting mechanism for the cpu and
[TS]
◼
►
this kind of mounting mechanism has pins
[TS]
◼
►
on the motherboard and then you put
[TS]
◼
►
that's why it's called like a land grid
[TS]
◼
►
i guess give the little pins are on the
[TS]
◼
►
land and you put the chip on top of it
[TS]
◼
►
and sort of clamp it down and the chins
[TS]
◼
►
the chips got little contacts and they
[TS]
◼
►
push down on the pins so the pins are in
[TS]
◼
►
the socket and not on the little chip
[TS]
◼
►
itself and basically this lets
[TS]
◼
►
motherboard makers make a motherboard
[TS]
◼
►
and they just have a little square hole
[TS]
◼
►
where are you you by the cpu separately
[TS]
◼
►
pick whichever one you want from a
[TS]
◼
►
certain compatible range and stick it in
[TS]
◼
►
here MSD know it's killing the pc
[TS]
◼
►
introduce I all we all are all of these
[TS]
◼
►
things are going to be soldered to the
[TS]
◼
►
logic board that means the only people
[TS]
◼
►
who can make logic boards or you know
[TS]
◼
►
that you can all have to buy the whole
[TS]
◼
►
unit you can't you know shop around I'm
[TS]
◼
►
gonna buy this motherboard and cpu and
[TS]
◼
►
this video card and plug it all together
[TS]
◼
►
I obviously don't care about this
[TS]
◼
►
because i don't like building pcs that
[TS]
◼
►
way and intel obviously either doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
think that's the future is just trying
[TS]
◼
►
to rest more control over we talked two
[TS]
◼
►
before a last show about trying to intel
[TS]
◼
►
trying to get more control over its
[TS]
◼
►
products by making a system where it
[TS]
◼
►
controls more of the components so we
[TS]
◼
►
can make it all them low voltage and all
[TS]
◼
►
them work together and not be
[TS]
◼
►
power-hungry and to do that it's rather
[TS]
◼
►
than trying to coerce everyone else into
[TS]
◼
►
doing is making like a speck and say you
[TS]
◼
►
must use this you must use that and
[TS]
◼
►
maybe we'll just make the entire
[TS]
◼
►
motherboard and solder the cpu wander
[TS]
◼
►
and this is what you get and tough luck
[TS]
◼
►
which is a big change from the old days
[TS]
◼
►
where everyone would do their little
[TS]
◼
►
business and stick to their knitting and
[TS]
◼
►
this guy would make the cpu and this guy
[TS]
◼
►
would make the motherboard chipset in
[TS]
◼
►
this guy would make the actual
[TS]
◼
►
motherboard and then assemblers would
[TS]
◼
►
build them all together yeah and that
[TS]
◼
►
that sort of interchangeable parts type
[TS]
◼
►
thing is definitely falling by the
[TS]
◼
►
wayside in favor of deeply vertically
[TS]
◼
►
integrated products all the way down to
[TS]
◼
►
the motherboard where you know
[TS]
◼
►
everything squished onto his few chips
[TS]
◼
►
as possible and then one company is
[TS]
◼
►
responsible for building the entire
[TS]
◼
►
system and it's not like a mix-and-match
[TS]
◼
►
thing piece mix-and-match leads to mix
[TS]
◼
►
and match as we talked about I think in
[TS]
◼
►
a show a while ago leads to devices that
[TS]
◼
►
look like typical dell laptops from a
[TS]
◼
►
few years ago and they do not look like
[TS]
◼
►
MacBook Airs of today where every single
[TS]
◼
►
part is custom and everything is
[TS]
◼
►
soldered on including the RAM and that
[TS]
◼
►
the battery is non-removable and it's
[TS]
◼
►
just a a custom-designed thing from the
[TS]
◼
►
ground up like a phone and that's
[TS]
◼
►
clearly the way things are going so you
[TS]
◼
►
know I'm not surprised by the change I
[TS]
◼
►
don't have a problem with it but some
[TS]
◼
►
people are upset alright next few bits
[TS]
◼
►
here are about what the heck Apple is
[TS]
◼
►
going to do for its next series of CPUs
[TS]
◼
►
both for max and for handheld stuffs the
[TS]
◼
►
first story is more estetica headline is
[TS]
◼
►
apple may tap TSMC to move the a series
[TS]
◼
►
mobile chips to 28 nanometer process
[TS]
◼
►
TSMC is Thailand Taiwan Semiconductor
[TS]
◼
►
Manufacturing Corporation and the
[TS]
◼
►
stories about how currently Samsung is
[TS]
◼
►
the sole source for the a5 the a6 and
[TS]
◼
►
the a6 s processors right and Samsung
[TS]
◼
►
and Apple don't particularly get along
[TS]
◼
►
they're busy suing each other or patents
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung is busy aping the look and feel
[TS]
◼
►
of apples devices and stores and you
[TS]
◼
►
know who knows maybe they're giving
[TS]
◼
►
their employees haircuts the same as
[TS]
◼
►
apples and blight haircuts they're
[TS]
◼
►
definitely copying Apple talked about
[TS]
◼
►
this in the show where I called their
[TS]
◼
►
behavior dishonorable whether or not
[TS]
◼
►
it's illegal or immoral and I thing like
[TS]
◼
►
that it's certainly dishonorable but
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung is the only other big player in
[TS]
◼
►
the market that's making profit in the
[TS]
◼
►
smartphone business and so Apple and
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung are going head-to-head here it's
[TS]
◼
►
kind of bad when you're paying your
[TS]
◼
►
competitor billions of dollars to
[TS]
◼
►
manufacture the critical components of
[TS]
◼
►
your most popular product so I upholster
[TS]
◼
►
looking for a way out there but so far
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung has you know it's the best been
[TS]
◼
►
the best bet the best game in town for
[TS]
◼
►
manufacturing these parts and a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
the earlier parts like the a foreign
[TS]
◼
►
stuff used samsung technology samsung
[TS]
◼
►
design samsung resources to get done and
[TS]
◼
►
the a6 is moved much farther away from
[TS]
◼
►
that where apple's doing design and
[TS]
◼
►
house and trying to use sams lima like a
[TS]
◼
►
fab so they're trying to extricate
[TS]
◼
►
themselves from samsung when the
[TS]
◼
►
question is who else out there can make
[TS]
◼
►
the number of chips that that Apple
[TS]
◼
►
needs at the process they want and this
[TS]
◼
►
article speculating about them moving to
[TS]
◼
►
TSMC which is just a fab they'll make
[TS]
◼
►
your thing you give them the design
[TS]
◼
►
they'll make it for you and it's
[TS]
◼
►
possibility that's one of the places I
[TS]
◼
►
go I think we mentioned this a couple
[TS]
◼
►
shows you as well the article points out
[TS]
◼
►
that TSMC a recently rebuffed attempts
[TS]
◼
►
from both Apple and Qualcomm to gain
[TS]
◼
►
exclusive access to its fab capacity so
[TS]
◼
►
Apple and Qualcomm have both been
[TS]
◼
►
courting TSMC to say sign an exclusive
[TS]
◼
►
contract you will only make stuff for us
[TS]
◼
►
at this process note in this factory and
[TS]
◼
►
they don't want to do it because that's
[TS]
◼
►
like hemming them in they want to be a
[TS]
◼
►
free agent you know everyone comes to me
[TS]
◼
►
will will fab for the highest bidder but
[TS]
◼
►
we don't want to get locked into just
[TS]
◼
►
one bidder there so it's interesting
[TS]
◼
►
dance there and the other question is do
[TS]
◼
►
they have the capacity are they going to
[TS]
◼
►
be able to compete again they're talking
[TS]
◼
►
about 28-nanometer here they're not
[TS]
◼
►
talking about 22 which Intel's currently
[TS]
◼
►
fab again that's certainly not talking
[TS]
◼
►
about 14 which Intel is going to be
[TS]
◼
►
fabbing out by next year so they're
[TS]
◼
►
trying to make a deal for next year to
[TS]
◼
►
do 28-nanometer having the interesting
[TS]
◼
►
thing about this article and why part in
[TS]
◼
►
the show notes is that it has one of
[TS]
◼
►
those great promoted comments that are
[TS]
◼
►
technica does were they read the
[TS]
◼
►
mote one of the better ones so that it
[TS]
◼
►
appears alongside the article because
[TS]
◼
►
normally on our Zhou comments are hidden
[TS]
◼
►
entirely unless you click on something
[TS]
◼
►
so this one is from Sur Omega ours he is
[TS]
◼
►
a commenter and not an arse writer and
[TS]
◼
►
he says it will happen meaning that
[TS]
◼
►
Apple's going to go to TSMC but TSMC
[TS]
◼
►
needs to beef up capacity they need to
[TS]
◼
►
get on board with apple style vendor
[TS]
◼
►
financing that goes with most of apples
[TS]
◼
►
suppliers were apple fronts the money
[TS]
◼
►
for the machines in this case
[TS]
◼
►
28-nanometer fab and then the vendor
[TS]
◼
►
pays them back over time for all the
[TS]
◼
►
chips that are made so that's the way
[TS]
◼
►
Apple does business with these things is
[TS]
◼
►
that it will put it's something we use
[TS]
◼
►
some is tremendous capital to fund the
[TS]
◼
►
creation of these things or to buy
[TS]
◼
►
machines like for the aluminum machining
[TS]
◼
►
and stuff like that and enter into sort
[TS]
◼
►
of financial dear ones like we buy the
[TS]
◼
►
stuff for you and then you pay us back
[TS]
◼
►
in the product you create I'm not sure
[TS]
◼
►
why they structure the deal this way it
[TS]
◼
►
shirts some sort of business thing cook
[TS]
◼
►
ism thing that I don't understand but
[TS]
◼
►
the two his two points are one the TSMC
[TS]
◼
►
needs tons of capacity because can be
[TS]
◼
►
very difficult to to fulfill apples
[TS]
◼
►
orders and to TSMC needs to get used to
[TS]
◼
►
this kind of financial arrangement
[TS]
◼
►
because apparently it's what Apple wants
[TS]
◼
►
and he says see the purported investment
[TS]
◼
►
in sharps new igzo LCD facilities are
[TS]
◼
►
also getting pulled into 2012 IGZO is
[TS]
◼
►
indium gallium zinc oxide show link in
[TS]
◼
►
the show notes to the Wikipedia page
[TS]
◼
►
explaining it's a process for making
[TS]
◼
►
lcds but is another type of investment
[TS]
◼
►
where Apple will front the money and
[TS]
◼
►
then you get paid back in parts that are
[TS]
◼
►
made Cyril mega RS continues based on
[TS]
◼
►
the timetables I've read for the
[TS]
◼
►
migration to 20 nanometers I don't
[TS]
◼
►
expect that Apple to get it here this
[TS]
◼
►
year Apple does a cute three launch of
[TS]
◼
►
the next iPhones and iPads we could see
[TS]
◼
►
an a7 chip built on 28 nanometer for the
[TS]
◼
►
2013 products and a8 chip built on 20
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer for the 2014 product so here
[TS]
◼
►
in this speculation he's saying in 2014
[TS]
◼
►
Apple could be on 20 nanometer but it's
[TS]
◼
►
kind of depressing if you consider that
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's on 22 nanometer now and by 2013
[TS]
◼
►
is going to be on 14 nanometer but
[TS]
◼
►
anyway continuing waiting another full
[TS]
◼
►
year for 20 nanometer is no big deal for
[TS]
◼
►
Apple since the biggest power drain is
[TS]
◼
►
out of their control the LCDs and the
[TS]
◼
►
cellular radio is consumed far more than
[TS]
◼
►
that's kind of true but like it's not
[TS]
◼
►
out of their control like that's why
[TS]
◼
►
they're trying to invest in LCD things
[TS]
◼
►
they're trying to get the the power the
[TS]
◼
►
power consumption of the LCD is now and
[TS]
◼
►
cellular radio stuff I wouldn't assume
[TS]
◼
►
that so out of their control because one
[TS]
◼
►
of the things that I thought about when
[TS]
◼
►
they said ambitious plan for
[TS]
◼
►
semiconductor is what if Apple starts to
[TS]
◼
►
get into the cell radio business to try
[TS]
◼
►
to make super low power stuff the
[TS]
◼
►
commenter continues switching to IGZO
[TS]
◼
►
and I wonderful is the way you pronounce
[TS]
◼
►
that without reading the letters anyway
[TS]
◼
►
especially to IGZO we should we should
[TS]
◼
►
leave leave that alone yes and
[TS]
◼
►
Qualcomm's third gen LTE chips will cut
[TS]
◼
►
power usage enough to make a red an ipad
[TS]
◼
►
or ipad many thin again so you're saying
[TS]
◼
►
that just by getting the lower power
[TS]
◼
►
screens and and new LTE chipsets from
[TS]
◼
►
qualcomm or whoever and a lower process
[TS]
◼
►
size that will cut power usage enough
[TS]
◼
►
for her you know things like the ipad
[TS]
◼
►
mini to go retina or four to make the
[TS]
◼
►
the big ipad thinner again even if
[TS]
◼
►
they're only on 20 nanometer by that
[TS]
◼
►
point so that is one commenters opinion
[TS]
◼
►
there i thought it was interesting next
[TS]
◼
►
article is a similar vintage it's from
[TS]
◼
►
fortune if samsung doesn't supply apples
[TS]
◼
►
processors who will so here is an
[TS]
◼
►
analyst i meet dari jaani jaani dari
[TS]
◼
►
jaani jaani like that it's a nice little
[TS]
◼
►
bullet point list of all right who if
[TS]
◼
►
it's not going to be Samsung who can fab
[TS]
◼
►
for Apple and he gives a couple choices
[TS]
◼
►
one is Intel and here is this the quote
[TS]
◼
►
about this intel has fat has three
[TS]
◼
►
foundry partners including a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
names of companies that i'm not going to
[TS]
◼
►
try to pronounce until is currently
[TS]
◼
►
ahead of arm by one point five
[TS]
◼
►
generations plus FinFET FinFET as an
[TS]
◼
►
arrangement a physical arrangement of
[TS]
◼
►
the stuff on the silicon chip the 3d
[TS]
◼
►
transistor type thing which is a way of
[TS]
◼
►
making transistors with a different
[TS]
◼
►
different layout of layers on top of
[TS]
◼
►
each other anyway comparing 22 nanometer
[TS]
◼
►
x86 SMI chips to apples arm-based 32
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer this gap could widen is until
[TS]
◼
►
moves to 14 nanometer production in 2014
[TS]
◼
►
a notable dynamic would be by becoming a
[TS]
◼
►
foundry for Apple it may dilute its own
[TS]
◼
►
mobile ambitions blah blah blah so
[TS]
◼
►
there's Intel's one option we talked
[TS]
◼
►
about that last time the next is a TSMC
[TS]
◼
►
that we just talked about
[TS]
◼
►
they would have to expend a lot of money
[TS]
◼
►
to get their capacity up to apples needs
[TS]
◼
►
and then GlobalFoundries is another one
[TS]
◼
►
there apparently working on 20 nanometer
[TS]
◼
►
process but again questions about if
[TS]
◼
►
they have the capacity to fab that many
[TS]
◼
►
and the final option is go vertical what
[TS]
◼
►
have apple decides to do their own thing
[TS]
◼
►
build their own fabs he says this is
[TS]
◼
►
unlikely but you know you can't get
[TS]
◼
►
anything out when a company has a
[TS]
◼
►
hundred billion dollars and says it has
[TS]
◼
►
ambitious semiconductor plans so who
[TS]
◼
►
knows so there are some shopkins there
[TS]
◼
►
and finally the most late-breaking one
[TS]
◼
►
here is from our friend philip
[TS]
◼
►
elmer-dewitt also it for any other
[TS]
◼
►
friend of the show yes in our enter
[TS]
◼
►
Apple 2 point 0 section of their site
[TS]
◼
►
says RBC Intel and talks with Apple to
[TS]
◼
►
build iphone processors so here you go
[TS]
◼
►
this is another person from the same
[TS]
◼
►
analyst group saying a speculation you
[TS]
◼
►
are acknowledging this has been
[TS]
◼
►
speculation about until fabbing here's
[TS]
◼
►
how such a deal might work and I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know if is one of those things like
[TS]
◼
►
here's how this such a deal might work
[TS]
◼
►
int int like it's based on information
[TS]
◼
►
on that you can't say or if it's just
[TS]
◼
►
plain old speculation like I imagine
[TS]
◼
►
this is how it could work it seems to me
[TS]
◼
►
that this type of story wouldn't get
[TS]
◼
►
published if there wasn't some
[TS]
◼
►
underlying seed of truth like someone at
[TS]
◼
►
Intel mentioned that they had proposed
[TS]
◼
►
this or that they might consider it or
[TS]
◼
►
who knows but anyway the deal is it be
[TS]
◼
►
possible fantasy speculated deal is
[TS]
◼
►
until would agree to use apples
[TS]
◼
►
preferred architecture for the iPhone
[TS]
◼
►
meaning they would fab ARM chips in
[TS]
◼
►
return Apple would agree to switch to
[TS]
◼
►
x86 in the iPad we talked about last
[TS]
◼
►
show how intel has a roadmap of chips
[TS]
◼
►
that will eventually be in a power
[TS]
◼
►
envelope that can fit an iPad scale
[TS]
◼
►
device so maybe that's the deal maybe
[TS]
◼
►
until the locate look will fab your
[TS]
◼
►
chips for your little tiny phones and
[TS]
◼
►
iPods and stuff and we'll fab your arm
[TS]
◼
►
chips using our awesome process in
[TS]
◼
►
return you agree to put x86 in your
[TS]
◼
►
iPad's huh I don't know if Apple would
[TS]
◼
►
agree to that because it would be weird
[TS]
◼
►
you have to start building fat binaries
[TS]
◼
►
for the App Store and I don't know but
[TS]
◼
►
there you go and according to this
[TS]
◼
►
analyst what's his name something
[TS]
◼
►
Friedman apples demand for 12-inch
[TS]
◼
►
system-on-a-chip wafers could be not
[TS]
◼
►
that they're 12 inch chips but the
[TS]
◼
►
wafers or 12 inch
[TS]
◼
►
could approach 415,000 outstripping
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung's ability to supply so be this
[TS]
◼
►
question keeps coming up not just
[TS]
◼
►
because apple hates Samsung but it seems
[TS]
◼
►
like Samsung doesn't even have the fab
[TS]
◼
►
capacity to manufacture as many chips as
[TS]
◼
►
Apple's going to need in 2013 so they
[TS]
◼
►
got to go to somebody so I mean
[TS]
◼
►
obviously Samsung could increase its fab
[TS]
◼
►
capacity but seems like apples looking
[TS]
◼
►
for a way out and so they're looking for
[TS]
◼
►
someone with more capacity and he says
[TS]
◼
►
we believe that intel has the upper hand
[TS]
◼
►
due to limitations of capacity at the
[TS]
◼
►
alternative sources chiefly TSMC and
[TS]
◼
►
GlobalFoundries so this is why he's this
[TS]
◼
►
analyst is leaning on the Intel can I
[TS]
◼
►
was like look no we don't think anyone
[TS]
◼
►
else has the capacity no matter how much
[TS]
◼
►
money Apple spends on it i guess if they
[TS]
◼
►
build them new fabs and stuff like that
[TS]
◼
►
the apples best bet is Intel because
[TS]
◼
►
intel has the capacity we talked about
[TS]
◼
►
in LA intel has been expanding its
[TS]
◼
►
capacity of its 14 animator things
[TS]
◼
►
seemingly far beyond what it needs to
[TS]
◼
►
manufacture its own stuff perhaps in
[TS]
◼
►
preparation for to say hey Apple you
[TS]
◼
►
know we're not only we have the best
[TS]
◼
►
process we also have the most capacity
[TS]
◼
►
let's do a deal but those x86 trips in
[TS]
◼
►
the iPad and we'll fab your arm chips
[TS]
◼
►
more stuff to watch and finally on the
[TS]
◼
►
Intel topic finally on the Intel top
[TS]
◼
►
this is our good old anonymous source
[TS]
◼
►
from last show back with some more all
[TS]
◼
►
right bits yes love this guy or Guzman
[TS]
◼
►
we don't know it we're just gonna go
[TS]
◼
►
with guys via the gender-neutral
[TS]
◼
►
anonymous choice right now um last show
[TS]
◼
►
i talked about how as well was like a
[TS]
◼
►
slightly wider architecture than the Ivy
[TS]
◼
►
Bridge chips it wasn't a big radical
[TS]
◼
►
change he replied back with some other
[TS]
◼
►
additional changes that he thought were
[TS]
◼
►
significant I still say they're not as
[TS]
◼
►
significant as like you know the change
[TS]
◼
►
from netburst decor or whatever but
[TS]
◼
►
they're worth noting as well adds fused
[TS]
◼
►
multiply ad or f MA as it's often
[TS]
◼
►
abbreviated which is the feature the
[TS]
◼
►
PowerPC chaps I think altivec had for
[TS]
◼
►
ages ago was one of those things that we
[TS]
◼
►
set out as an advantage of the old
[TS]
◼
►
PowerPC architecture but anyway fuse
[TS]
◼
►
multiply ad is where it was what it
[TS]
◼
►
sounds like you you multiply two
[TS]
◼
►
products two numbers together and you
[TS]
◼
►
take the product that multiplication and
[TS]
◼
►
you add it to an accumulator and it's a
[TS]
◼
►
very common operation
[TS]
◼
►
doing like lots of 3d math and vector
[TS]
◼
►
math and stuff like that and if you make
[TS]
◼
►
hardware for it where you can say do do
[TS]
◼
►
a fuse multiply ad and it's like a
[TS]
◼
►
single instruction instead of having to
[TS]
◼
►
multiply the two numbers together take
[TS]
◼
►
the resultant edge or another one it's
[TS]
◼
►
common enough that it's worth being
[TS]
◼
►
built into hardware and so as well has
[TS]
◼
►
that and I think it's part of a VX to a
[TS]
◼
►
VX is there vector extension that that's
[TS]
◼
►
you know we had SSC one two or three and
[TS]
◼
►
four now they've got a B X and avx2 so
[TS]
◼
►
you can see how that's going and he says
[TS]
◼
►
this has huge implications for
[TS]
◼
►
high-performance computing which is
[TS]
◼
►
probably true and also there's software
[TS]
◼
►
trent not software to the actual menu
[TS]
◼
►
hardware support for transactional
[TS]
◼
►
memory transactional memory is confusing
[TS]
◼
►
and esoteric I've put a link into the
[TS]
◼
►
show notes for Ars Technica article
[TS]
◼
►
titled transactional memory going
[TS]
◼
►
mainstream with intel has as well the
[TS]
◼
►
I'll try to summarize transactional
[TS]
◼
►
memory the gist of transactional memory
[TS]
◼
►
is rather than the old way of when you
[TS]
◼
►
have multiple threads modifying the same
[TS]
◼
►
data structures in memory of like having
[TS]
◼
►
a lock were some guy grabs and locking
[TS]
◼
►
Sissoko everyone else I've got the lock
[TS]
◼
►
I'm gonna fiddle with this data
[TS]
◼
►
structure and it fiddles with it secure
[TS]
◼
►
that no one else could possibly be
[TS]
◼
►
fiddling with it because they would all
[TS]
◼
►
try to grab the lock and he has it
[TS]
◼
►
thinks it's nope you can't grab block
[TS]
◼
►
I've got it when he's done he releases
[TS]
◼
►
the lock and then someone else goes oh I
[TS]
◼
►
need the lock and grabs the lock
[TS]
◼
►
modifies the memory and so on so forth
[TS]
◼
►
lock based you know resolving contention
[TS]
◼
►
with the lock is all well and good
[TS]
◼
►
except this is problems about how
[TS]
◼
►
granular do you make the locks like do
[TS]
◼
►
you put a lock on an entire giant data
[TS]
◼
►
structure you just put locks on little
[TS]
◼
►
parts of it and is you know does the
[TS]
◼
►
lock block out everybody in the entire
[TS]
◼
►
universe or just blocks out people who
[TS]
◼
►
want to my brother by this one section
[TS]
◼
►
so lock granularity is a problem also
[TS]
◼
►
writing lock based code like writing the
[TS]
◼
►
code for it if you if you have someone
[TS]
◼
►
forget to grab the lock and they just
[TS]
◼
►
modify it accidentally you've got a
[TS]
◼
►
problem so you have to make sure
[TS]
◼
►
everyone grabs lock make sure locks are
[TS]
◼
►
grabbed on the right order or else you
[TS]
◼
►
get deadlock and all the other things
[TS]
◼
►
that are difficult to deal with so
[TS]
◼
►
transactional memory is supposed to be
[TS]
◼
►
so it's sometimes called like lock free
[TS]
◼
►
programming where you don't try to grab
[TS]
◼
►
a lock and what happens that everyone
[TS]
◼
►
just tries to do everything at once with
[TS]
◼
►
the idea that in most cases there won't
[TS]
◼
►
be a conflict because the lock thing is
[TS]
◼
►
like always preventative like oh if
[TS]
◼
►
anything goes wrong you know we
[TS]
◼
►
something we could
[TS]
◼
►
conflict with each other so I better
[TS]
◼
►
grab this lock and maybe it's the case
[TS]
◼
►
that there would have been no conflict
[TS]
◼
►
in the car it's like cars going through
[TS]
◼
►
an intersection with no traffic light
[TS]
◼
►
maybe they do subtle will sail past each
[TS]
◼
►
other and no one would have hit each
[TS]
◼
►
other would have been fine why does
[TS]
◼
►
everyone always have to have this lock
[TS]
◼
►
as it slows down traffic so
[TS]
◼
►
transactional memory is like no box just
[TS]
◼
►
try to do what you were going to do and
[TS]
◼
►
then the CPU keeps track in this case
[TS]
◼
►
hardware transactional memory the CPU
[TS]
◼
►
keeps track of whether there actually
[TS]
◼
►
was a collision so everybody just tries
[TS]
◼
►
to do what they're going to do and at
[TS]
◼
►
the end of it says all right everyone
[TS]
◼
►
did what they were going to do did
[TS]
◼
►
someone else try to do something at the
[TS]
◼
►
same time you were doing it and if they
[TS]
◼
►
did they'll say oops oh that didn't work
[TS]
◼
►
out we had a collision it will roll back
[TS]
◼
►
everything you did and say you've got to
[TS]
◼
►
try that over because you had a
[TS]
◼
►
collision it's sort of like optimistic
[TS]
◼
►
locking but not really but anyway it's a
[TS]
◼
►
way for you for the programmer to write
[TS]
◼
►
their programs without having to grab
[TS]
◼
►
locks and everything as long as they can
[TS]
◼
►
handle the fact that in there in the
[TS]
◼
►
hopefully rare case where there is a
[TS]
◼
►
collision they will just be asked to
[TS]
◼
►
retry their operation it's like it's
[TS]
◼
►
basically the opposite is expecting
[TS]
◼
►
there not to be a conflict and handling
[TS]
◼
►
when there is instead of expecting there
[TS]
◼
►
to be a conflict in preventing it from
[TS]
◼
►
ever happen and so this as well has this
[TS]
◼
►
as hardware support with this feature
[TS]
◼
►
and it does it in a particularly clever
[TS]
◼
►
way such the same binary can run
[TS]
◼
►
correctly on both ships that do and
[TS]
◼
►
don't support transactional memory
[TS]
◼
►
features so they have like a little
[TS]
◼
►
prefix on their instructions and Haswell
[TS]
◼
►
processors will honor the prefix and use
[TS]
◼
►
the transactional memory stuff and the
[TS]
◼
►
rollback stuff but other processes will
[TS]
◼
►
ignore the prefix and just treated as a
[TS]
◼
►
locked command so you can write the same
[TS]
◼
►
code and an old process it just runs
[TS]
◼
►
like lock code like all these things
[TS]
◼
►
crowd to grab grab the lock and wait if
[TS]
◼
►
they can't get it and you know works the
[TS]
◼
►
old way but has well process it will try
[TS]
◼
►
to do the transaction of everything and
[TS]
◼
►
you know roll everything back of it
[TS]
◼
►
conflicted but if it didn't it'll sail
[TS]
◼
►
right through so i have my own personal
[TS]
◼
►
doubts about the practical usefulness of
[TS]
◼
►
transactional memory as do many other
[TS]
◼
►
people because it's been implemented in
[TS]
◼
►
software before and has not set the
[TS]
◼
►
world on fire despite the theoretical
[TS]
◼
►
usefulness of it may be implementing a
[TS]
◼
►
hardware will help but i'm not sure how
[TS]
◼
►
many people use these features or how
[TS]
◼
►
many people have code that is a
[TS]
◼
►
contention bound or that actually maybe
[TS]
◼
►
the locking code as annoying it is to
[TS]
◼
►
the right maybe it will actually still
[TS]
◼
►
perform better or maybe it's more
[TS]
◼
►
difficult to handle the conflict cases
[TS]
◼
►
transaction ah don't know but it's there
[TS]
◼
►
so that's a speculative feature and it
[TS]
◼
►
may turn out to be significant and may
[TS]
◼
►
just be like oh well I didn't quite work
[TS]
◼
►
out and also the cache bandwidth on as
[TS]
◼
►
well has doubled without any latency
[TS]
◼
►
penalty this person like to point out so
[TS]
◼
►
I put a link in the show notes that
[TS]
◼
►
anonymous recommended to the real world
[TS]
◼
►
tech article on the haswell cpu
[TS]
◼
►
architecture you can read all about it
[TS]
◼
►
oh and one more thing about I imagine
[TS]
◼
►
else unless show about has well being
[TS]
◼
►
able to wake up and sleep really quickly
[TS]
◼
►
as a way to save memory by keeping
[TS]
◼
►
everything shut down and I also
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned how until was you know on
[TS]
◼
►
people but voltage regulators and stuff
[TS]
◼
►
like that why voltage reg goes keep
[TS]
◼
►
coming up but I must have read this and
[TS]
◼
►
had it in the back of my mind why was
[TS]
◼
►
such an issue is that Intel's Haswell
[TS]
◼
►
has an on divulge regulator and that
[TS]
◼
►
allows it to wake up and sleep even more
[TS]
◼
►
quickly because I'm die but also it
[TS]
◼
►
allows it to make sure that the chip is
[TS]
◼
►
only using the voltage that it actually
[TS]
◼
►
needs to do whatever its being asked to
[TS]
◼
►
you so if half the chip is shut down
[TS]
◼
►
because you know you don't need those
[TS]
◼
►
execution units for this particular
[TS]
◼
►
micro second or whatever it's kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
shame if the voltage regulator is still
[TS]
◼
►
sending the chip like the full voltage
[TS]
◼
►
it would normally need if everything was
[TS]
◼
►
turned on so that source says the real
[TS]
◼
►
benefit is that it allows Intel to
[TS]
◼
►
throttle voltage very quickly so we can
[TS]
◼
►
operate at the most efficient voltage
[TS]
◼
►
for the for the given workload and since
[TS]
◼
►
vaulted has a quadratic effect on the
[TS]
◼
►
power consumption it's great that you
[TS]
◼
►
know it's not just linear if you have
[TS]
◼
►
the voltage you have not just have the
[TS]
◼
►
power as also you know a nice savings of
[TS]
◼
►
having thing on die instead of having a
[TS]
◼
►
separate chip or whatever so it's
[TS]
◼
►
another advantage of has well there and
[TS]
◼
►
finally this is this is the most
[TS]
◼
►
interesting part of this anonymous
[TS]
◼
►
feedback last show I spent a little
[TS]
◼
►
while talking about tick tock and how I
[TS]
◼
►
thought it was weird like one thing was
[TS]
◼
►
a tick when I thought it should be a
[TS]
◼
►
talk because it seemed to me that it was
[TS]
◼
►
like tick the important thing and then
[TS]
◼
►
talk and then tick and then the little
[TS]
◼
►
talk and I expected tick to be like Oh a
[TS]
◼
►
brand new architecture and then talk
[TS]
◼
►
would be just be shrinking and many
[TS]
◼
►
people sent me mnemonics to remember it
[TS]
◼
►
saying well tick has an eye in it and
[TS]
◼
►
shrink has an ISO tick is the shrink or
[TS]
◼
►
just remember is the opposite of the way
[TS]
◼
►
you think it is or whatever but this
[TS]
◼
►
source says the reason in dell has tick
[TS]
◼
►
first is that it thinks it was so
[TS]
◼
►
was a manufacturing company first and a
[TS]
◼
►
design house second so the reason tick
[TS]
◼
►
is the important thing like they agree
[TS]
◼
►
apparently agree with me that tick is
[TS]
◼
►
like the big important thing and that's
[TS]
◼
►
the shrink the shrinking is the
[TS]
◼
►
important part look at us we're Intel
[TS]
◼
►
we've shrunk process again now the
[TS]
◼
►
smallest feature size has gone down the
[TS]
◼
►
talk is yet we'll make new architecture
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever but tick you know we'll do
[TS]
◼
►
another shrink at another example the
[TS]
◼
►
source says is that intel says tape in
[TS]
◼
►
instead of taping out we heard the term
[TS]
◼
►
taping out never heard that never come
[TS]
◼
►
on no you build pcs yours know what I
[TS]
◼
►
heard now tapping out yeah that's
[TS]
◼
►
different so taping out is when you're
[TS]
◼
►
done designing a processor I think it
[TS]
◼
►
has to do with in that use actual tape
[TS]
◼
►
to sort of lay out how the chip was
[TS]
◼
►
going to be laid out but anyway the term
[TS]
◼
►
holds on it so you're done designing how
[TS]
◼
►
the process is going to do you tape out
[TS]
◼
►
and you send this design to your fab and
[TS]
◼
►
they build the thing that you've taped
[TS]
◼
►
out right an Intel calls it taping in
[TS]
◼
►
the source so this is probably help it
[TS]
◼
►
at healthy attitude because Intel didn't
[TS]
◼
►
have a process advantage there's not
[TS]
◼
►
much the design team could do to keep
[TS]
◼
►
x86 competitive with the arm ecosystem
[TS]
◼
►
at this point so taping inverse is
[TS]
◼
►
taping out it's a difference in mindset
[TS]
◼
►
there's no different than what actually
[TS]
◼
►
happens like they still you know send
[TS]
◼
►
the design to the fabric Intel design
[TS]
◼
►
files are converted to fab file formats
[TS]
◼
►
verified by the fab and then the masks
[TS]
◼
►
are created the difference is in mindset
[TS]
◼
►
in design shops they tape out to the fab
[TS]
◼
►
when the fab receives them they tape in
[TS]
◼
►
so Intel calls it tape in as a way of
[TS]
◼
►
making teams understand how until
[TS]
◼
►
identifies itself it's taping in they
[TS]
◼
►
get you know Intel gets the design from
[TS]
◼
►
all those designer guys who actually
[TS]
◼
►
make the chip taping in to us Intel
[TS]
◼
►
Intel doesn't tape out to anyone they
[TS]
◼
►
tape in from the people who designed the
[TS]
◼
►
chips so it's interesting and I had I
[TS]
◼
►
would not have guessed that Intel
[TS]
◼
►
thought of itself this way I would have
[TS]
◼
►
thought of thought that Intel probably
[TS]
◼
►
found itself as a great designer of
[TS]
◼
►
chips that happens to have great fabs
[TS]
◼
►
and this source seems to say that Intel
[TS]
◼
►
thinks of itself as an amazing
[TS]
◼
►
manufacturer that just happens to have a
[TS]
◼
►
team of people who design chips it did
[TS]
◼
►
then manufacturers after they tape in
[TS]
◼
►
the designs tap it out and and this is I
[TS]
◼
►
didn't plan this but here you go right
[TS]
◼
►
after it the we're going to the
[TS]
◼
►
miscellaneous follow up about tape cell
[TS]
◼
►
scotch tape I thought we'd put this to
[TS]
◼
►
bed no not possible apparently some
[TS]
◼
►
follow up on the bed oh I'd mentioned
[TS]
◼
►
the sticky back plastic and that some TV
[TS]
◼
►
show was ridiculed for using sticky back
[TS]
◼
►
plastic this clarification from Mike
[TS]
◼
►
Richmond says sticky back plastic refers
[TS]
◼
►
to fab lon I think it's a name brand
[TS]
◼
►
it's the generic name for the you know
[TS]
◼
►
the brand name is fab lon it's think
[TS]
◼
►
about plastic as a generic name the BBC
[TS]
◼
►
show that was infamous for using sticky
[TS]
◼
►
back plastic was called Blue Peter and
[TS]
◼
►
it seemed to require it for almost all
[TS]
◼
►
day Aug that implement shows yes it was
[TS]
◼
►
the frequent usage of sticky back
[TS]
◼
►
plastic which was the subject of
[TS]
◼
►
derision and parody not the fact that
[TS]
◼
►
they were using the term to mean sticky
[TS]
◼
►
tape biggest Iggy back plastic is like a
[TS]
◼
►
big clear plastic sheet that happens to
[TS]
◼
►
be sticky it's not tape and so I googled
[TS]
◼
►
what the hell blue peter is and
[TS]
◼
►
apparently the wikipedia page says the
[TS]
◼
►
first broadcast in 1958 is the world's
[TS]
◼
►
longest-running children's television
[TS]
◼
►
program but then they spelled program
[TS]
◼
►
with an e because you know it's British
[TS]
◼
►
yeah they're fancy over there yeah so
[TS]
◼
►
there you go stinky back plastic not the
[TS]
◼
►
same thing as sticky tape or sellotape
[TS]
◼
►
show that used it not ridiculed for
[TS]
◼
►
using the term but because they use the
[TS]
◼
►
material all the time and apparently the
[TS]
◼
►
name brand is fab lon babe blonde fat
[TS]
◼
►
blonde battlin sure yeah and finally the
[TS]
◼
►
last people's piece of follow-up boy
[TS]
◼
►
this is a follow-up heavy shower I would
[TS]
◼
►
like to wish happy birthday to joshua
[TS]
◼
►
jones AKA mine fat who was in our chat
[TS]
◼
►
room right now Wow maker of nintendo
[TS]
◼
►
icons uh uh that i collected way back in
[TS]
◼
►
my youth and i saw him in a chat room
[TS]
◼
►
and asked if he was the guy who made
[TS]
◼
►
them and he said yes and he sent me a
[TS]
◼
►
big archive of all his icons and i love
[TS]
◼
►
icons i love nintendo and i know it's
[TS]
◼
►
his birthday fix his friend emailed me
[TS]
◼
►
and told me his friend did not provide a
[TS]
◼
►
pronunciation guide for his name but
[TS]
◼
►
i'll go for it anyway achille kenyatta
[TS]
◼
►
sent me an email and said that joshua
[TS]
◼
►
jones really appreciate it we got a
[TS]
◼
►
happy birthday greeting even though this
[TS]
◼
►
is not as he noted a radio call-in show
[TS]
◼
►
where we have birthday shoutouts to be
[TS]
◼
►
that would i have like a little like a
[TS]
◼
►
little thing for that yeah it's probably
[TS]
◼
►
too late in the history that showed us
[TS]
◼
►
to add that though that's not the
[TS]
◼
►
morning zoo yeah i know you want to do
[TS]
◼
►
the mornings if I do will you be on that
[TS]
◼
►
don't be i won't be on the morning
[TS]
◼
►
anything ok ah but there you go happy
[TS]
◼
►
birthday to mine fat all right we got
[TS]
◼
►
take a breather here how why don't ya
[TS]
◼
►
you do need one why don't we do is
[TS]
◼
►
second is it time was it appropriate
[TS]
◼
►
time it's it's time it is the right time
[TS]
◼
►
I've got all your links open so
[TS]
◼
►
everything's a little turned around tell
[TS]
◼
►
you about shutterstock.com where you
[TS]
◼
►
find over 20 million stock photos they
[TS]
◼
►
got vectors they got you they got your
[TS]
◼
►
illustrations they got your video clips
[TS]
◼
►
but what they are they're really cool
[TS]
◼
►
they work with tons and tons of
[TS]
◼
►
independent content creators all around
[TS]
◼
►
the world whether they're photographers
[TS]
◼
►
or people who draw stuff and they make
[TS]
◼
►
all of this stuff available to you it's
[TS]
◼
►
very very easy to search for the thing
[TS]
◼
►
that you're looking for why would you
[TS]
◼
►
want this maybe get an iOS app maybe
[TS]
◼
►
you're building a website maybe you want
[TS]
◼
►
something for your mug or your tote bag
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't matter they have something that
[TS]
◼
►
will work for you maybe it's a
[TS]
◼
►
presentation maybe you're about to go
[TS]
◼
►
pitch your your new idea buildings you
[TS]
◼
►
building one of those decks and you got
[TS]
◼
►
the VC sitting there you want to show
[TS]
◼
►
them some cool tons of reasons why you
[TS]
◼
►
might want to look at this stuff they
[TS]
◼
►
make it really easy to find everything
[TS]
◼
►
and organize it into these light boxes
[TS]
◼
►
and then you can take these light boxes
[TS]
◼
►
and you can share them and share them
[TS]
◼
►
with other people on your team you can
[TS]
◼
►
share with your friends whatever it is
[TS]
◼
►
they can all work together they'd all
[TS]
◼
►
work together to come up with something
[TS]
◼
►
that'll be perfect then you put it
[TS]
◼
►
together as a package then you buy it
[TS]
◼
►
they give you the high high high
[TS]
◼
►
resolution stuff it's just one price for
[TS]
◼
►
everything they don't nickel and dime
[TS]
◼
►
you and it's more affordable than you
[TS]
◼
►
might think they have an iPad app by the
[TS]
◼
►
way that makes this lightbox and
[TS]
◼
►
curation stuff really easy then they got
[TS]
◼
►
24 hour support during the week you
[TS]
◼
►
don't need to give them anything so just
[TS]
◼
►
go there and browse and check it out and
[TS]
◼
►
doing that will help support this show
[TS]
◼
►
to help support the whole network so you
[TS]
◼
►
go do shutterstock.com and browse around
[TS]
◼
►
when you figure out the thing that you
[TS]
◼
►
want to get use the code Dan sent me 11
[TS]
◼
►
dan sent me a lemon and you'll get
[TS]
◼
►
thirty percent off which is big so go
[TS]
◼
►
check it out shutterstock.com dan sent
[TS]
◼
►
me 11 thanks very much to shutterstock
[TS]
◼
►
for making these shows possible you're
[TS]
◼
►
saying you know you used to build your
[TS]
◼
►
deck I'm like why would you need stock
[TS]
◼
►
photos to build a deck like oh okay
[TS]
◼
►
all right not it not a wooden deck back
[TS]
◼
►
at your house so the kids call it these
[TS]
◼
►
days you get to build your deck now
[TS]
◼
►
isn't the kids say yeah I just want to
[TS]
◼
►
clarify that joshua jones his birthday
[TS]
◼
►
is on december third it's not today but
[TS]
◼
►
hey who knows maybe what time you're
[TS]
◼
►
listening to this it will be december
[TS]
◼
►
third if you were thinking of sending
[TS]
◼
►
him a card / gift or were you or
[TS]
◼
►
anything because he does like Nintendo
[TS]
◼
►
and I'm not sin all right just track
[TS]
◼
►
just you all right so the topic for
[TS]
◼
►
today's show the one and only lonely
[TS]
◼
►
topic hmm I could be long and it could
[TS]
◼
►
be a short one okay I know it's not blue
[TS]
◼
►
peter know that is a funny name it is
[TS]
◼
►
funny no it's not blue peter although a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of things a lot of British things
[TS]
◼
►
sound like unintentional innuendos to
[TS]
◼
►
American people this is the times like
[TS]
◼
►
this when you wish from are one of us
[TS]
◼
►
here I knew to riff on blue peter north
[TS]
◼
►
yeah no one no one does it better no no
[TS]
◼
►
one does need sexual innuendo dance
[TS]
◼
►
better than better than Maryland does
[TS]
◼
►
yes sir if only if only saying his name
[TS]
◼
►
three times made him appear less or made
[TS]
◼
►
him go away it's that doesn't work to
[TS]
◼
►
non one smelled to go no one does know
[TS]
◼
►
once you call him out he's there to help
[TS]
◼
►
it's like Bill juice yeah now John
[TS]
◼
►
Roderick is there to help Merlin is
[TS]
◼
►
there to help John who's there to help
[TS]
◼
►
plus it's complicated relations yeah
[TS]
◼
►
that's the drug diagram alright so this
[TS]
◼
►
is going to be you know like in sitcoms
[TS]
◼
►
in the 80s sitcom would start and it'll
[TS]
◼
►
be funny and you'd watch it and then
[TS]
◼
►
like somewhere around I don't know like
[TS]
◼
►
season two and a half they would have
[TS]
◼
►
they would have a very special episode I
[TS]
◼
►
love those it'd be like you know like I
[TS]
◼
►
can different strokes like you'd watch
[TS]
◼
►
this funny show about these adopted
[TS]
◼
►
children and their rich snooty father
[TS]
◼
►
and the clash of cultures or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
and it would be funny and then they have
[TS]
◼
►
a show about sexual abuse right never be
[TS]
◼
►
like out of nowhere so and then it would
[TS]
◼
►
say this week on a very special
[TS]
◼
►
well here you go this this is the man I
[TS]
◼
►
can't do the boys this week on a very
[TS]
◼
►
special hypercritical we're not going to
[TS]
◼
►
talk about sexual abuse but it's going
[TS]
◼
►
to be more of a touchy feely topic then
[TS]
◼
►
pass shows or indeed about the then they
[TS]
◼
►
follow up about chip-making and fabbing
[TS]
◼
►
wii u accelerometers and all that stuff
[TS]
◼
►
ah and i thought of this topic because
[TS]
◼
►
not because it's new because anyone who
[TS]
◼
►
is read any of these things that i'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to cite and putting the show notes
[TS]
◼
►
notice that many of them are like half a
[TS]
◼
►
year old or older but because there was
[TS]
◼
►
just one more article like I always put
[TS]
◼
►
these in mines to paper queue and I
[TS]
◼
►
happen to read it the other day and I
[TS]
◼
►
said you know what this is this is worth
[TS]
◼
►
talking about on the show even if it is
[TS]
◼
►
you know a very special episode maybe
[TS]
◼
►
that will be the title this episode
[TS]
◼
►
maybe more so we're gonna start you know
[TS]
◼
►
where this is going cuz you seen the
[TS]
◼
►
show notes yeah the people in the chat
[TS]
◼
►
room don't I'm going to start with
[TS]
◼
►
something from the ever handy know your
[TS]
◼
►
meme site which is good for old people
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I was just gonna say like people
[TS]
◼
►
like us we really need this this site
[TS]
◼
►
that's right cuz now I mean not just all
[TS]
◼
►
people i find it even young people young
[TS]
◼
►
people don't know the old people's memes
[TS]
◼
►
and vice versa so anyone you unknown to
[TS]
◼
►
me means you can look it up here and
[TS]
◼
►
then the description this mean makes me
[TS]
◼
►
feel old maybe you'll agree this is the
[TS]
◼
►
fake geek girl meme which is not a new
[TS]
◼
►
me amiss product link in the show notes
[TS]
◼
►
to know your main page it's listed as
[TS]
◼
►
idiot nerd girl but it's you know the
[TS]
◼
►
same thing all right here's the
[TS]
◼
►
description from the site idiot nerd
[TS]
◼
►
girl is an advice animal image macro
[TS]
◼
►
series yes all those words are in that
[TS]
◼
►
order on the site featuring a photo of a
[TS]
◼
►
teenage girl wearing thick-rimmed
[TS]
◼
►
glasses with the word nerd written on
[TS]
◼
►
the palm of her hand the upper caption
[TS]
◼
►
often contains a reference to geek
[TS]
◼
►
culture while the bottom caption
[TS]
◼
►
demonstrates a lack of knowledge or
[TS]
◼
►
expertise in the subject and then they
[TS]
◼
►
say it bears many similarities to
[TS]
◼
►
technologically impaired duck and
[TS]
◼
►
musically oblivious 8th grade by seven
[TS]
◼
►
now i had never heard the term advice
[TS]
◼
►
animal image i had neither advice animal
[TS]
◼
►
image macro series sounds like you know
[TS]
◼
►
some sort of a random text generator
[TS]
◼
►
using a spam email but they call it
[TS]
◼
►
advice and I'm sure if I you looked up
[TS]
◼
►
advice and I'm sure if I you looked up
[TS]
◼
►
know your meme that would explain
[TS]
◼
►
exactly what advice animal is and where
[TS]
◼
►
that comes from but I didn't look at
[TS]
◼
►
that but if you have once you see it
[TS]
◼
►
you'll know what they're talking about
[TS]
◼
►
like oh those things with the weird
[TS]
◼
►
background with the bright colors and
[TS]
◼
►
the spirals and it shows some probably
[TS]
◼
►
give you a template on a site to make
[TS]
◼
►
your own yeah it is even if you don't
[TS]
◼
►
know these terms you know what the kind
[TS]
◼
►
of thing they're talking about and so
[TS]
◼
►
the idiot nerd girl is it's got a
[TS]
◼
►
picture of this poor girl whoever she
[TS]
◼
►
actually is uh is making fun of girls
[TS]
◼
►
who uh seem to be nerds but don't
[TS]
◼
►
actually know anything about the you
[TS]
◼
►
know don't actually know anything about
[TS]
◼
►
nerd culture right because as a
[TS]
◼
►
comparison to pretty much are almost our
[TS]
◼
►
entire lives yours in mine and probably
[TS]
◼
►
many of our listeners being a nerd or
[TS]
◼
►
geek was not like maybe it was
[TS]
◼
►
acceptable but it was not cool now it's
[TS]
◼
►
cool it's cool to the point that you
[TS]
◼
►
will have a girl like you're saying who
[TS]
◼
►
is it has no actual knowledge or
[TS]
◼
►
connection to any kind of geek culture
[TS]
◼
►
posing posing is the word right yeah
[TS]
◼
►
that is what this meme is doing its
[TS]
◼
►
trying to make fun of people this this
[TS]
◼
►
type of person who is a girl who is it
[TS]
◼
►
seems to be a nerd but isn't really
[TS]
◼
►
because they don't know anything about
[TS]
◼
►
that aren't stuck right so that's the
[TS]
◼
►
mean the next article have in the show
[TS]
◼
►
notes is by Tara Tiger Brown it's titled
[TS]
◼
►
dear fake geek girls please go away and
[TS]
◼
►
it is against the people who are
[TS]
◼
►
described in this meme here's a quote
[TS]
◼
►
from the article pretentious females who
[TS]
◼
►
have labeled themselves a geek girl in
[TS]
◼
►
quotes figured out the guys will pay a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of tension to them if they proclaim
[TS]
◼
►
their reading comics for playing video
[TS]
◼
►
games celebrities dressing up as geeks
[TS]
◼
►
to reach larger audience Richard Branson
[TS]
◼
►
labeled himself a geek for crying out
[TS]
◼
►
loud how do we separate the geeks from
[TS]
◼
►
the muck this is also related to Patton
[TS]
◼
►
Oswalt's piece in Wired magazine from a
[TS]
◼
►
while ago I called wake up geek culture
[TS]
◼
►
time to die about the dilution of geek
[TS]
◼
►
culture by people who aren't you know
[TS]
◼
►
quote unquote really geeks if we
[TS]
◼
►
actually addressed this on the
[TS]
◼
►
incomparable way back in episode 28
[TS]
◼
►
entitled bed at high school I put a link
[TS]
◼
►
in the show notes if you'd like to hear
[TS]
◼
►
a discussion of this Patton Oswalt
[TS]
◼
►
article decrying the
[TS]
◼
►
geek culture by people who don't know
[TS]
◼
►
all the things the geeks are supposed to
[TS]
◼
►
know that is kind of a superset of the
[TS]
◼
►
fake geek girl thing which specifically
[TS]
◼
►
about girls diluting geek culture there
[TS]
◼
►
aren't really geeks they don't really
[TS]
◼
►
know anything about comics they just
[TS]
◼
►
like to pretend they're geeks okay so
[TS]
◼
►
that's the that's the context those are
[TS]
◼
►
the memes here the Mary Sue is a website
[TS]
◼
►
dedicated like yeah eat girl type of
[TS]
◼
►
things and they had a response to the
[TS]
◼
►
fake geek girl I'm gonna try to advise
[TS]
◼
►
animal Nikki girl advice animal name
[TS]
◼
►
they did their own meme for the geek
[TS]
◼
►
girl meme which sort of like counter
[TS]
◼
►
meme using the same images but just
[TS]
◼
►
changing the text on the top I put a
[TS]
◼
►
link in the show so this is well yeah
[TS]
◼
►
quote from it memes are hard to kill
[TS]
◼
►
it's basically their definition and
[TS]
◼
►
easiest way to deal with them is by
[TS]
◼
►
trying to ignore them but this one we
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't mind eradicating from the
[TS]
◼
►
internet it would be the idiot nerd girl
[TS]
◼
►
advice animal meme it's emblematic the
[TS]
◼
►
persistently idea that it tells people
[TS]
◼
►
it's okay to nestle call women out for
[TS]
◼
►
not being quote authentically geeky
[TS]
◼
►
unquote enough it's basically the idea
[TS]
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►
that you can use the old middle school
[TS]
◼
►
tactic of calling people posers which by
[TS]
◼
►
the way you just did then a little while
[TS]
◼
►
ago and describing this because they
[TS]
◼
►
don't adhere to your own particular
[TS]
◼
►
rules as to what qualifies as a geek or
[TS]
◼
►
because they happen to have boobs and
[TS]
◼
►
read comic books so this is their
[TS]
◼
►
counter meme which is a clever way to
[TS]
◼
►
counter this type of thing using the
[TS]
◼
►
same imagery with different text to make
[TS]
◼
►
fun of the people who are trying to make
[TS]
◼
►
fun of the idiot nerd girls basically
[TS]
◼
►
you know pointing out that the idiot
[TS]
◼
►
nerd girl meme is very similar to people
[TS]
◼
►
calling people and posters in the middle
[TS]
◼
►
school cafeteria which was a very
[TS]
◼
►
popular thing to do I can attest I don't
[TS]
◼
►
they still do that I assume I posers and
[TS]
◼
►
that's evergreen right I think so
[TS]
◼
►
holders I think so yes maybe let less of
[TS]
◼
►
it now no no find out when I could to
[TS]
◼
►
get the middle school unfortunately I'm
[TS]
◼
►
sure all right uh so there's some more
[TS]
◼
►
context up for the meme now finally this
[TS]
◼
►
is the article that made me want to talk
[TS]
◼
►
about this topic it is by alex hern this
[TS]
◼
►
one is actually a recent article i think
[TS]
◼
►
it's been in the past few weeks or so is
[TS]
◼
►
entitled oh god I gotta drink gotta take
[TS]
◼
►
a drink of water you have one more
[TS]
◼
►
sponsor do you want to do yeah and do
[TS]
◼
►
right now and do whatever what I'm
[TS]
◼
►
whatever you want to do whenever you're
[TS]
◼
►
ready source that's huh mobile app
[TS]
◼
►
development house they help you develop
[TS]
◼
►
and design your next application or game
[TS]
◼
►
be instantly put over 300 dedicated
[TS]
◼
►
programmers and interface designers
[TS]
◼
►
behind your project full time how's that
[TS]
◼
►
possible John siracusa would say well
[TS]
◼
►
they're full development shop and they
[TS]
◼
►
take lots of projects so when you show
[TS]
◼
►
up and you say this is my this is my
[TS]
◼
►
idea this is the thing I want to build I
[TS]
◼
►
want a website that ties into a mobile
[TS]
◼
►
app on for iOS and another one for
[TS]
◼
►
Android they can build all of this or
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you're an iOS developer and you
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to do the website you don't
[TS]
◼
►
want to do the database back-end you're
[TS]
◼
►
not interested in that because it's
[TS]
◼
►
outside of your wheelhouse right well
[TS]
◼
►
that's fine they'll do the parts you
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to do or they'll do
[TS]
◼
►
everything and they've got a really
[TS]
◼
►
great track record more than 500
[TS]
◼
►
applications they built for mobile web
[TS]
◼
►
desktop platforms I can do everything 20
[TS]
◼
►
of which have reached top 10 in global
[TS]
◼
►
application marketplaces they're really
[TS]
◼
►
really great to have the ant and
[TS]
◼
►
strategy you show up with a little
[TS]
◼
►
sketch on a napkin doesn't matter
[TS]
◼
►
they'll do whatever you want and they're
[TS]
◼
►
really they can scale up and they take
[TS]
◼
►
small projects to you don't have to be a
[TS]
◼
►
fortune 500 company to work with these
[TS]
◼
►
guys figure to source bits calm they
[TS]
◼
►
just redesign this and looks great
[TS]
◼
►
there's a big button in the middle of
[TS]
◼
►
sis work I guess it's a button looks
[TS]
◼
►
kind of like a honeycomb you click on
[TS]
◼
►
the work one and you can see all of the
[TS]
◼
►
stuff that they've built they build
[TS]
◼
►
games at the web stuff consumer mobile
[TS]
◼
►
enterprise mobile you name it just click
[TS]
◼
►
around and see some of the applications
[TS]
◼
►
that they build I bet some of them are
[TS]
◼
►
on your phone right now go check them
[TS]
◼
►
out longtime sponsor VARs out in sunny
[TS]
◼
►
California San Francisco source bits com
[TS]
◼
►
please do check them out they make these
[TS]
◼
►
shows possible John people in chat room
[TS]
◼
►
have pointed out some things that I did
[TS]
◼
►
not put into my notes I don't know if I
[TS]
◼
►
would work them in maybe it will do it
[TS]
◼
►
in some follow-up for this uh related to
[TS]
◼
►
this area that we're about to talk about
[TS]
◼
►
and cited before those memes is the the
[TS]
◼
►
show Big Bang Theory you watch that I
[TS]
◼
►
have not watched it to the dismay of
[TS]
◼
►
pretty much everybody who's ever met me
[TS]
◼
►
but i'm going to start watching it yeah
[TS]
◼
►
it's done I mean it's all done I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know son so big bang theory is a sitcom
[TS]
◼
►
I don't watch it either I saw like part
[TS]
◼
►
of a couple episodes to know people are
[TS]
◼
►
talking about at like you many people
[TS]
◼
►
tell me that I should
[TS]
◼
►
this including my own mother tell me
[TS]
◼
►
this one also oh I don't watch a show i
[TS]
◼
►
have read many articles about the show
[TS]
◼
►
and most many of the articles are
[TS]
◼
►
arguments amongst geeks as to whether
[TS]
◼
►
the geeks on Big Bang Theory are
[TS]
◼
►
represented in a way that celebrates
[TS]
◼
►
them or that is a that ridicules them or
[TS]
◼
►
it the term that keep coming keeps
[TS]
◼
►
coming up with big bank there any part
[TS]
◼
►
of the reason I'm not evening that going
[TS]
◼
►
to talk about it goes off an entirely
[TS]
◼
►
other tangent that's probably offensive
[TS]
◼
►
to many people and I will emphasize that
[TS]
◼
►
I did not make up this term nor have I
[TS]
◼
►
spoken and written it or endorsed it in
[TS]
◼
►
any way but it is repeatedly referred to
[TS]
◼
►
on the web is that big bang theory is
[TS]
◼
►
nerd black face and you can imagine why
[TS]
◼
►
that is offensive and makes no sense in
[TS]
◼
►
many different ways but you can also
[TS]
◼
►
figure out what what are they trying to
[TS]
◼
►
communicate through their indelicate
[TS]
◼
►
terminology and we're trying to
[TS]
◼
►
communicate as they think the big bang
[TS]
◼
►
theory uh does it disservice to nerds
[TS]
◼
►
that it's not a celebration of thirds or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever so that's a whole other
[TS]
◼
►
conversation but it's definitely related
[TS]
◼
►
but I'm not going to talk about that
[TS]
◼
►
here because we're on something else um
[TS]
◼
►
so anyway the article by alex hern nerds
[TS]
◼
►
stop hating women please this article
[TS]
◼
►
starts by introducing Tony Harris who is
[TS]
◼
►
have you heard of Tony Harris before
[TS]
◼
►
looking at this article not before this
[TS]
◼
►
article yo you may actually know him or
[TS]
◼
►
his work so the arca says he's in no way
[TS]
◼
►
a household name but he's artist behind
[TS]
◼
►
some of the most critically acclaimed
[TS]
◼
►
comics of last 20 years notably Starman
[TS]
◼
►
with james robinson for DC and ex
[TS]
◼
►
machina with bryan cave on the wildstar
[TS]
◼
►
you know if any of those properties i
[TS]
◼
►
know of them they're not things that I I
[TS]
◼
►
mean vol not you're not into but aren't
[TS]
◼
►
slate so maybe comics people would
[TS]
◼
►
notice but Tony Harris is probably one
[TS]
◼
►
of the artists I assume he's not the
[TS]
◼
►
writer based on what their his writing
[TS]
◼
►
that is copy and pasted into this
[TS]
◼
►
article because surely this person is
[TS]
◼
►
not a writer ha if you don't look at
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I'm gonna read a substantial
[TS]
◼
►
portion of it but you were to really get
[TS]
◼
►
the feel you have to really see the
[TS]
◼
►
gigantic crazy person wall of text
[TS]
◼
►
filled with misspellings and capital
[TS]
◼
►
letters and bad puns data bad
[TS]
◼
►
punctuation but that's not what's
[TS]
◼
►
offensive that's not the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
about this that's offensive that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to talk about it's the content so
[TS]
◼
►
here is a rant that Tony Harris posted
[TS]
◼
►
on his Facebook wall which has
[TS]
◼
►
since been removed apparently because I
[TS]
◼
►
follow the link and it's gone and you
[TS]
◼
►
can kind of understand why it was
[TS]
◼
►
removed once I read you some passages
[TS]
◼
►
from it so start with a little bit of
[TS]
◼
►
his intro he says I appreciate a pretty
[TS]
◼
►
gal as nuts as much as the next hetero
[TS]
◼
►
male but I'm so sick entirely gonna
[TS]
◼
►
capitalized H capitalized him head I
[TS]
◼
►
don't want I don't want if I have to add
[TS]
◼
►
the Sun all miss phone just I want
[TS]
◼
►
people to get the flavor of the way he's
[TS]
◼
►
going on about it as yet another me and
[TS]
◼
►
would say this text passage has a flavor
[TS]
◼
►
and it's not good anyway I'm so sick and
[TS]
◼
►
tired of the whole cosplay chicks chicks
[TS]
◼
►
spelled wrong cosplay in all caps here's
[TS]
◼
►
a statement i want to make based on the
[TS]
◼
►
rule all caps hey Kwazii pretty not hot
[TS]
◼
►
girl you are more pathetic than the real
[TS]
◼
►
nerds who you secretly think are really
[TS]
◼
►
pathetic but we're onto you some of us
[TS]
◼
►
are aware that you're ever so average on
[TS]
◼
►
a daily basis but you have a couple of
[TS]
◼
►
things going your way you're willing to
[TS]
◼
►
become almost completely naked in public
[TS]
◼
►
and you're skinny well some of you think
[TS]
◼
►
you are or you have big boobies notice I
[TS]
◼
►
didn't say great boobies you are what I
[TS]
◼
►
refer to as khan hot you can see where
[TS]
◼
►
this rant is going cosplay by the ways
[TS]
◼
►
when people dress up in costumes as
[TS]
◼
►
their favorite characters and go to a
[TS]
◼
►
convention or not to go to convention a
[TS]
◼
►
dressing up with your favorite
[TS]
◼
►
characters from some fiction thing
[TS]
◼
►
you're interested in comic books movies
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever yeah so he's referring to
[TS]
◼
►
these people as khan hot and says one of
[TS]
◼
►
the things that i'll have in common all
[TS]
◼
►
these geeky boys of these conventions
[TS]
◼
►
they're being preyed on by you you have
[TS]
◼
►
this really awful need for attention for
[TS]
◼
►
people to tell you you're prettier hot
[TS]
◼
►
and here's the reason why all that
[TS]
◼
►
sickens us because you don't know s
[TS]
◼
►
which i can't say on the show about
[TS]
◼
►
comics beyond whatever google image
[TS]
◼
►
search you did to get the ref on the
[TS]
◼
►
swimming humans reference on the most
[TS]
◼
►
mainstream character with most revealing
[TS]
◼
►
costume ever if any of these guys do you
[TS]
◼
►
hang out with try to talk to you outside
[TS]
◼
►
of that con you wouldn't give them the
[TS]
◼
►
effing time of day shut up your damn
[TS]
◼
►
liar no you would not you're not you're
[TS]
◼
►
not comics you're just the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
all comic book and mainstream press
[TS]
◼
►
flock to it cons
[TS]
◼
►
the real reason for the con and the damn
[TS]
◼
►
costumes you're parading around and that
[TS]
◼
►
would be the comic book artists in the
[TS]
◼
►
comic writers who make all this stuff up
[TS]
◼
►
I remove parts of that rant but yes
[TS]
◼
►
that's the gist of it I think you can
[TS]
◼
►
get the feel for where this person is
[TS]
◼
►
coming from and how it relates to the
[TS]
◼
►
fake geek girl meme with a specific
[TS]
◼
►
focus on cosplay in this point you know
[TS]
◼
►
these people dressing up this way and
[TS]
◼
►
they're not you know real geeks so this
[TS]
◼
►
this is leaving me into what this
[TS]
◼
►
article is about and this particular
[TS]
◼
►
strain of fake geek girl Nina stuff is
[TS]
◼
►
leading me into is the section of the
[TS]
◼
►
show or which I call let's talk about
[TS]
◼
►
misogyny dan is that a good recurring
[TS]
◼
►
segment yes I'm it maybe you won't
[TS]
◼
►
reoccur at all maybe this will be the
[TS]
◼
►
only one but let's talk about misogyny
[TS]
◼
►
alright and if you're listening you
[TS]
◼
►
don't know what misogyny is that's the
[TS]
◼
►
hatred of women by men right from the
[TS]
◼
►
West End dictionary very succinct
[TS]
◼
►
definition but let's also talk about
[TS]
◼
►
geek culture because I think that
[TS]
◼
►
actually is on topic for the show so our
[TS]
◼
►
geek culture or something I'm observer
[TS]
◼
►
of but I'm also part of as a geek and I
[TS]
◼
►
think it's on topic of the show because
[TS]
◼
►
you could subtitle this section what's
[TS]
◼
►
wrong with geek culture we haven't had
[TS]
◼
►
one of those what's wrong with for a
[TS]
◼
►
while no and as part of this I want to
[TS]
◼
►
talk about one of the causes of misogyny
[TS]
◼
►
there are many causes of misogyny as
[TS]
◼
►
there are causes of any you know many
[TS]
◼
►
causes of any kind of hatred but there's
[TS]
◼
►
one in particular that's relevant to
[TS]
◼
►
Tony Harris's terribly spelled
[TS]
◼
►
incoherent screed that I just read
[TS]
◼
►
passages from but before I get into that
[TS]
◼
►
I want to say I'm not going to describe
[TS]
◼
►
a cause of misogyny as a way to explain
[TS]
◼
►
away or excuse or justify the behavior a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of times people trying to explain
[TS]
◼
►
like let me explain to you why why
[TS]
◼
►
someone does something the explanation
[TS]
◼
►
is either seen as or really as meant as
[TS]
◼
►
a justification is like no you don't
[TS]
◼
►
understand yes this person did this bad
[TS]
◼
►
thing but let me tell you why they did
[TS]
◼
►
this bad thing and when they don't
[TS]
◼
►
explain to you feel like osu are you
[TS]
◼
►
saying that all right now that I
[TS]
◼
►
understand why they did that it's okay
[TS]
◼
►
like now all I see why they do now make
[TS]
◼
►
sense to me and whether the person
[TS]
◼
►
not that's kind of feeling so on ahead
[TS]
◼
►
that often say my explanation of why why
[TS]
◼
►
this exists is not meant as an excuse or
[TS]
◼
►
like oh now I get it now makes sense to
[TS]
◼
►
me that was perfectly justified I'm
[TS]
◼
►
going to describe it because I hope it
[TS]
◼
►
will help the people who behave this way
[TS]
◼
►
to stop behaving this way it's not aimed
[TS]
◼
►
at the outside world who observe this
[TS]
◼
►
behavior it's aimed at the people who
[TS]
◼
►
perpetrate it and this is part of the
[TS]
◼
►
sort of you know you met a point for
[TS]
◼
►
this in this entire show and my original
[TS]
◼
►
hypercritical article and ARS technica
[TS]
◼
►
way back when the idea that
[TS]
◼
►
understanding why you do something is a
[TS]
◼
►
pretty important first step in stopping
[TS]
◼
►
doing it because if you don't know why
[TS]
◼
►
you're doing things you're just doing
[TS]
◼
►
things and you don't understand the
[TS]
◼
►
causes of how are you ever going to
[TS]
◼
►
change your behavior you don't even
[TS]
◼
►
understand what's causing the behavior
[TS]
◼
►
in the first place and you know it
[TS]
◼
►
figuring out what's wrong with something
[TS]
◼
►
what's going wrong what's causing this
[TS]
◼
►
to happen not just within yourself with
[TS]
◼
►
anything is you know and a particular
[TS]
◼
►
strain of criticism self-criticism so
[TS]
◼
►
that's why I'm gonna try to explain this
[TS]
◼
►
and this explosion is not earth
[TS]
◼
►
shattering or whatever but but here we
[TS]
◼
►
go so nerdy geeky guys of which there
[TS]
◼
►
are probably many listening to the show
[TS]
◼
►
and hosting the show uh are so many many
[TS]
◼
►
hosts many listeners yes are often you
[TS]
◼
►
know socially isolated or ridicule
[TS]
◼
►
during childhood to varying degrees
[TS]
◼
►
would you say this this is an accurate
[TS]
◼
►
assessment very childhood yes absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
and so you know this happens sometimes
[TS]
◼
►
because of our awkwardness or interests
[TS]
◼
►
or you know just a combination of things
[TS]
◼
►
it's not it doesn't have to be one type
[TS]
◼
►
of thing and in sort of the Lord of the
[TS]
◼
►
Flies world of middle school in high
[TS]
◼
►
school this usually means greatly
[TS]
◼
►
decreased desirability to the opposite
[TS]
◼
►
sex I think you would agree with that it
[TS]
◼
►
can mean that is yes alright so this
[TS]
◼
►
leads to the following situation so so
[TS]
◼
►
you've got a you know adolescent
[TS]
◼
►
heterosexual male right and he's a geek
[TS]
◼
►
all right but like any other adolescent
[TS]
◼
►
heterosexual male that geek boy is
[TS]
◼
►
really really really interested to girls
[TS]
◼
►
just happens biologically
[TS]
◼
►
trust me it's it is an all-consuming
[TS]
◼
►
thing that happens at that time in a
[TS]
◼
►
young boy's life right mm-hmm inevitable
[TS]
◼
►
yes but he doesn't get what he wants
[TS]
◼
►
he's wants girls but because of all the
[TS]
◼
►
mixers to mention about the geeks and
[TS]
◼
►
and you know it's just generally being
[TS]
◼
►
ostracized and awkward and strange and
[TS]
◼
►
interested in weird stuff uh he can't
[TS]
◼
►
get no as the man says right yes hey
[TS]
◼
►
that was the widest reading of yeah I'm
[TS]
◼
►
fine by whatever but there you go uh he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't get what he wants all right and
[TS]
◼
►
so this this formula can easily lead to
[TS]
◼
►
anger the you know geek boy really wants
[TS]
◼
►
this thing and you can't get it every
[TS]
◼
►
time tries to get it he fails and feels
[TS]
◼
►
worse uh and it's kind of like a
[TS]
◼
►
toddler's tantrum something that I'm
[TS]
◼
►
sure you and I are both very familiar
[TS]
◼
►
with way too familiar with at this point
[TS]
◼
►
where you know like you have a three or
[TS]
◼
►
four year old if they want something you
[TS]
◼
►
know they want the cookie or they want
[TS]
◼
►
the toy or they don't want to take a
[TS]
◼
►
bath or whatever and you and you deny
[TS]
◼
►
them the things they want they throw a
[TS]
◼
►
tantrum to stamp their feet they were
[TS]
◼
►
scream and yell yeah I want the bus like
[TS]
◼
►
the end of the way just in coherently
[TS]
◼
►
flail out with anger all right and that
[TS]
◼
►
kind of tantrum response we associate
[TS]
◼
►
that with a toddler because you know if
[TS]
◼
►
you saw an adult do that if you did it
[TS]
◼
►
if an adult didn't get a raise in the
[TS]
◼
►
office and he goes in the floor lies in
[TS]
◼
►
the floor and stomped his feet in his
[TS]
◼
►
hands and yells and screams and cries
[TS]
◼
►
that he really wants that raised we
[TS]
◼
►
would say that's not appropriate
[TS]
◼
►
behavior for an adult right but those
[TS]
◼
►
pathways and our brains are still in us
[TS]
◼
►
even as adults and certainly certainly
[TS]
◼
►
as pre teens and adolescents like even
[TS]
◼
►
though we know that you're not supposed
[TS]
◼
►
to throw tantrums or whatever that
[TS]
◼
►
connection I want something I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
getting it I'm angry now incoherent
[TS]
◼
►
tantrum all that is still there so it's
[TS]
◼
►
kind of like mashed by civilization and
[TS]
◼
►
learning you know the correct way to
[TS]
◼
►
accent partly matched by shame because
[TS]
◼
►
you know if you did actually throw a
[TS]
◼
►
tantrum in the middle of lunch room
[TS]
◼
►
because the girl doesn't like you that
[TS]
◼
►
would not be good idea right and so they
[TS]
◼
►
have this anger right but where is that
[TS]
◼
►
anger directed well it's not going to be
[TS]
◼
►
directed into a tantrum because that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's not viable for even a preteen or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever they know that's not the right
[TS]
◼
►
way to do it you that anger may be
[TS]
◼
►
initially directed against you know the
[TS]
◼
►
self the board start to be angry at
[TS]
◼
►
himself for you so stupid why you have
[TS]
◼
►
weird and geeky you know blow blob is he
[TS]
◼
►
can't he can't get again let's get back
[TS]
◼
►
if he can't get what he wants he might
[TS]
◼
►
not even understand why he wants girls
[TS]
◼
►
but he's definitely does and he can't
[TS]
◼
►
get them to talk to him pay attention to
[TS]
◼
►
him like we're not saying this is like a
[TS]
◼
►
self-actualized person he just knows
[TS]
◼
►
girl want yes and he knows not getting
[TS]
◼
►
girl bad right it's definitely not
[TS]
◼
►
high-minded it's very great and but you
[TS]
◼
►
know so he could be angry himself but
[TS]
◼
►
this can also eventually lead to anger
[TS]
◼
►
against females they can start to be
[TS]
◼
►
seen as the enemy that's refusing to
[TS]
◼
►
give you what you want so the you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's like you're not gonna throw a
[TS]
◼
►
tantrum and you're done hating on
[TS]
◼
►
yourself maybe you have some sort of ego
[TS]
◼
►
that likes us know you know it's not my
[TS]
◼
►
fault you know whose fault this is 10
[TS]
◼
►
it's the girl's fault nothing else I
[TS]
◼
►
want and they're they're refusing to you
[TS]
◼
►
know it can get with me and but don't
[TS]
◼
►
they understands is what I want their
[TS]
◼
►
their evil there they are denying me
[TS]
◼
►
this thing that I want right now this is
[TS]
◼
►
nonsensical yeah and effed up in but it
[TS]
◼
►
makes this weighs very high grow kind of
[TS]
◼
►
angry you know but this makes sense if
[TS]
◼
►
you're a guy listening this this is all
[TS]
◼
►
kind of in a sad way this makes sense
[TS]
◼
►
yeah like if your girl is saying to this
[TS]
◼
►
you know how crazy this sounds right and
[TS]
◼
►
if your guy listening to this I hope you
[TS]
◼
►
also know how crazy it sounds but you
[TS]
◼
►
probably also have felt this at some
[TS]
◼
►
point in your life but things like if
[TS]
◼
►
you think of a two seconds it makes no
[TS]
◼
►
sense like the these the first of all
[TS]
◼
►
these girls as if they're one homogenous
[TS]
◼
►
species right there there I think with
[TS]
◼
►
one mind like a high of mine females
[TS]
◼
►
right miss the people that you want to
[TS]
◼
►
be with and how can you ever expect to
[TS]
◼
►
enter into a a loving lifelong
[TS]
◼
►
relationship with someone of the
[TS]
◼
►
opposite sex if you've come to view them
[TS]
◼
►
all as evil enemies and yet this
[TS]
◼
►
happened right that they are the enemy
[TS]
◼
►
because they are denying you everything
[TS]
◼
►
in life and I want to get into whole
[TS]
◼
►
crazy fruity and other issues and all
[TS]
◼
►
sorts of all that cause I'm just
[TS]
◼
►
focusing on this one thing simple
[TS]
◼
►
adolescent boy geek wats girls can't get
[TS]
◼
►
there for girls are enemies right so
[TS]
◼
►
this is all very obvious to most people
[TS]
◼
►
but I think it is not obvious to the
[TS]
◼
►
people who perpetrate the worst acts of
[TS]
◼
►
misogyny certainly Tony Harris seems
[TS]
◼
►
completely unaware of this connection
[TS]
◼
►
that I've just drawn here while he
[TS]
◼
►
repeatedly demonstrates this
[TS]
◼
►
symptoms in his little essay I mean if
[TS]
◼
►
you look at that essay how can you not
[TS]
◼
►
see somebody who is angry at women
[TS]
◼
►
because of his failures with women uh I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know anything about him maybe he's
[TS]
◼
►
got a you know he's happily married
[TS]
◼
►
maybe he has healthy well-adjusted
[TS]
◼
►
relationships but everything he says
[TS]
◼
►
screams I am angry at women in general
[TS]
◼
►
yeah not you know I don't like women and
[TS]
◼
►
I don't like them for because I've been
[TS]
◼
►
rejected by them so let me insult them
[TS]
◼
►
in all the ways that then denigrate them
[TS]
◼
►
along the axes that I care about you
[TS]
◼
►
know you're not as hot as you think your
[TS]
◼
►
eyes if being hot is the you know the be
[TS]
◼
►
all and end all these women you know he
[TS]
◼
►
have used them only as a things in this
[TS]
◼
►
in this thing that he wrote have no idea
[TS]
◼
►
always like personal miss thing you
[TS]
◼
►
wrote it's entirely about how you are
[TS]
◼
►
not fulfilling my desires and how you
[TS]
◼
►
know and the worst insult I can give to
[TS]
◼
►
you is how you do not fill my criteria
[TS]
◼
►
adequately that that's how I carry you
[TS]
◼
►
down and that's why I hate all females
[TS]
◼
►
here so I would say that if you're an
[TS]
◼
►
adolescent heterosexual male nerd
[TS]
◼
►
listening to this which I have to
[TS]
◼
►
imagine there's some fears yeah this 23
[TS]
◼
►
maybe in our audience well I mean
[TS]
◼
►
adolescent I'm sure there's plenty of
[TS]
◼
►
heterosexual metal nerds listings us but
[TS]
◼
►
adolescent sudden out there into this
[TS]
◼
►
right uh but if you are if you happen to
[TS]
◼
►
be a young person I guess if you're if
[TS]
◼
►
you're an adult as well uh now is the
[TS]
◼
►
time especially for that'll essence let
[TS]
◼
►
slides and now is the time to start to
[TS]
◼
►
be vigilant I don't like think about
[TS]
◼
►
this connection that it is made and just
[TS]
◼
►
sort of observe it dispassionately try
[TS]
◼
►
to disconnect yourself from it and you
[TS]
◼
►
know realize how absurd it is and don't
[TS]
◼
►
let yourself fall into this trap and to
[TS]
◼
►
do that by understanding how and why you
[TS]
◼
►
could start to feel this way because
[TS]
◼
►
like you said Dan even though this
[TS]
◼
►
sounds ridiculous and absurd almost
[TS]
◼
►
every male is in this where they're
[TS]
◼
►
going to MIT it publicly or not has had
[TS]
◼
►
feelings like this and hopefully has
[TS]
◼
►
examined them and said wait a second
[TS]
◼
►
this is idiotic it makes no sense this
[TS]
◼
►
is not you know this anger is being
[TS]
◼
►
directed to the wrong place right so
[TS]
◼
►
understand why this happens and why it
[TS]
◼
►
makes no sense as a wise man once said
[TS]
◼
►
Dan don't give it to hate that leads to
[TS]
◼
►
the dark side right I think I understand
[TS]
◼
►
understanding this is an important step
[TS]
◼
►
you think about it
[TS]
◼
►
understand it and so if ever if ever you
[TS]
◼
►
feel that way you have the rational part
[TS]
◼
►
of your brain intervene cut it off and
[TS]
◼
►
think about it so getting back to Alex
[TS]
◼
►
Hearns a nerd stop paying your women
[TS]
◼
►
please thing he continues this is
[TS]
◼
►
America the views expressed by Harris
[TS]
◼
►
aren't just held by a virulent
[TS]
◼
►
misogynist instead they're depressingly
[TS]
◼
►
common in geek culture on the lads and
[TS]
◼
►
scare quotes of images too many nerds
[TS]
◼
►
have basically internalized the
[TS]
◼
►
stereotype of themselves as ugly
[TS]
◼
►
friendless losers and decided that
[TS]
◼
►
anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype
[TS]
◼
►
particularly women is a fake geek taking
[TS]
◼
►
advantage of the fact that being a geek
[TS]
◼
►
is now cool so he's brought this back
[TS]
◼
►
around to you know I guess kind of
[TS]
◼
►
relate to the big bang theory / tech
[TS]
◼
►
nerds don't cling to this image of
[TS]
◼
►
yourself as as friendless and terrible
[TS]
◼
►
and saying well someone who doesn't fit
[TS]
◼
►
that mold is in a real geek right
[TS]
◼
►
because that's another pathway to
[TS]
◼
►
complaining all women for your own
[TS]
◼
►
problems right I'm becoming a misogynist
[TS]
◼
►
so here is a sa relating to this from
[TS]
◼
►
susana polo I think it's also on the
[TS]
◼
►
Mary Sue it's called on the fake geek
[TS]
◼
►
girl with fake and scare quotes finally
[TS]
◼
►
appropriately in this case I understand
[TS]
◼
►
the desire to weed out posers out of
[TS]
◼
►
your personal life and interactions but
[TS]
◼
►
I've never actually in the phret in the
[TS]
◼
►
flesh made a fake geek girl or guy I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think this people actually exist
[TS]
◼
►
outside of painful daytime news segments
[TS]
◼
►
and occasional job interviews and
[TS]
◼
►
internet memes but I understand who are
[TS]
◼
►
you to say that a stranger someone
[TS]
◼
►
you're never likely to meet is not
[TS]
◼
►
genuinely interested in the thing they
[TS]
◼
►
appear to be interested in as it is Mary
[TS]
◼
►
services here at Mary Sue when an
[TS]
◼
►
actress goes on a talk show and
[TS]
◼
►
describes her personal affection and
[TS]
◼
►
involvement and join Minh and fandom for
[TS]
◼
►
geek properties we take it at face value
[TS]
◼
►
why because we don't actually have a
[TS]
◼
►
reason not to because all alternative
[TS]
◼
►
the alternative reads a closed community
[TS]
◼
►
of paranoid elitist jerks who just lash
[TS]
◼
►
out at anyone you our summer here is a
[TS]
◼
►
great this this should've been like
[TS]
◼
►
bullet points in the end the entire
[TS]
◼
►
content of the article right the proper
[TS]
◼
►
response this to someone who says they
[TS]
◼
►
like comics and is only ever read scott
[TS]
◼
►
pilgrim is to recommend some more comics
[TS]
◼
►
for that the proper response is someone
[TS]
◼
►
curious to be faking enthusiasm is to
[TS]
◼
►
ignore them not to project their actions
[TS]
◼
►
onto entire gender or community the
[TS]
◼
►
proper response to someone who appears
[TS]
◼
►
to want to be a part of your community
[TS]
◼
►
is to welcome them in end of story that
[TS]
◼
►
is a very good summary of what you
[TS]
◼
►
should be doing instead of the crazy
[TS]
◼
►
things that many people are doing this
[TS]
◼
►
is what I think should and in my
[TS]
◼
►
experience most often does define geek
[TS]
◼
►
culture at its best it's a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
people who maybe had difficult childhood
[TS]
◼
►
them or ostracized and excluded taking
[TS]
◼
►
those experiences that they had in
[TS]
◼
►
childhood and learning from them not to
[TS]
◼
►
like seek revenge by treating other
[TS]
◼
►
people the way they were treated but to
[TS]
◼
►
learn the opposite lesson by learning
[TS]
◼
►
how hard is to be treated like that and
[TS]
◼
►
then vowing never to make other people
[TS]
◼
►
feel the way that they felt that I wrote
[TS]
◼
►
taking the high road it's not the hi-res
[TS]
◼
►
likes to path dark side light side right
[TS]
◼
►
because you can see how the experience
[TS]
◼
►
can lead you to the dark side and but
[TS]
◼
►
the light side is the opposite side of
[TS]
◼
►
that having this just terrible miserable
[TS]
◼
►
experience and and just like vowing
[TS]
◼
►
saying you know sort of as God is my
[TS]
◼
►
witness I'll never be hungry again but
[TS]
◼
►
like as God is my witness I will never
[TS]
◼
►
make anyone else feel the way I'm
[TS]
◼
►
feeling right now a geek culture as it
[TS]
◼
►
at its best is welcoming we don't care
[TS]
◼
►
if you're awkward ugly fat smelly
[TS]
◼
►
inarticulate or yes even female plus any
[TS]
◼
►
of the above combined right do you want
[TS]
◼
►
to talk about the nuances of Pokemon
[TS]
◼
►
strategy I'm interested in that to come
[TS]
◼
►
not me personally but you know
[TS]
◼
►
theoretically come welcome let's talk
[TS]
◼
►
about that right and yes also even if
[TS]
◼
►
you're female cosplaying and some
[TS]
◼
►
scantily clad thing and attractive
[TS]
◼
►
welcome you know will relate to you as a
[TS]
◼
►
human being who wants to talk about
[TS]
◼
►
Legend of Zelda or league of legends are
[TS]
◼
►
Wow or whatever you want to talk about
[TS]
◼
►
we'll treat you like a human being
[TS]
◼
►
regardless of your appearance social
[TS]
◼
►
skills interests you know anything
[TS]
◼
►
because we know what it's like to be
[TS]
◼
►
treated badly based on who we are not on
[TS]
◼
►
who we are but in how we look or what
[TS]
◼
►
we're interested in wien that's the
[TS]
◼
►
whole point like we did we experience
[TS]
◼
►
that these people don't know who I am
[TS]
◼
►
they're down on me because I'm into
[TS]
◼
►
Dungeons and Dragons progress I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know how to dress or because I'm awkward
[TS]
◼
►
and you know inarticulate or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
thing about you we know what it's like
[TS]
◼
►
to be treated that way in the same exact
[TS]
◼
►
way when some super hot beautiful
[TS]
◼
►
person scantily-clad comes up to you at
[TS]
◼
►
econo wants to talk to you relate to her
[TS]
◼
►
as a human being who's interested in
[TS]
◼
►
wherever the heck she's interested in
[TS]
◼
►
and ignore who cares what she looks like
[TS]
◼
►
you know or you know it's it's it's
[TS]
◼
►
that's the lesson we should learn not
[TS]
◼
►
like oh we should all hate all these
[TS]
◼
►
females because they're not like us and
[TS]
◼
►
because they you know ignored us in high
[TS]
◼
►
school or whatever tax is a great
[TS]
◼
►
example this packs with the penny arcade
[TS]
◼
►
expo which you are going to this yes I
[TS]
◼
►
am it's at its best and it's very very
[TS]
◼
►
often at its best is a judgment-free
[TS]
◼
►
zone that's what i would call nice if we
[TS]
◼
►
all come there because we all love
[TS]
◼
►
gaming and of some stripe board games
[TS]
◼
►
video games whatever it is we're all
[TS]
◼
►
gamers we just happened also a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
time be you know awkward in our tequila
[TS]
◼
►
geeks and we all come together uh and
[TS]
◼
►
and it's like it's kind of like I think
[TS]
◼
►
of an example going somewhere where you
[TS]
◼
►
can finally relax like now I know no one
[TS]
◼
►
here is going to be judging me because
[TS]
◼
►
I'm a geek maybe you're in your job you
[TS]
◼
►
don't feel that way because you feel
[TS]
◼
►
like I have to hide the fact that I'm a
[TS]
◼
►
larper in a weekend right don't I mean
[TS]
◼
►
we make fun of that ourselves like I was
[TS]
◼
►
all all right like that's right right
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's the one so even even we can
[TS]
◼
►
make fun of flour well no but packs is
[TS]
◼
►
like pax is a judgment-free zone no
[TS]
◼
►
matter what you're interested we're in
[TS]
◼
►
this place and this time we're gonna set
[TS]
◼
►
aside to say we are not going to we're
[TS]
◼
►
not going to care everyone is the same
[TS]
◼
►
everyone is welcome no one is judged
[TS]
◼
►
based on whatever the thing is that
[TS]
◼
►
they're interested in as long as they're
[TS]
◼
►
not hurting other people right and this
[TS]
◼
►
extends far far outward from like gaming
[TS]
◼
►
and geek stuff or whatever all the way
[TS]
◼
►
out to things like sexual orientation
[TS]
◼
►
transgender everything like that again
[TS]
◼
►
it's about relating to people as people
[TS]
◼
►
not according to what the labels are
[TS]
◼
►
what their appearances are what their
[TS]
◼
►
what their weird interests weird you may
[TS]
◼
►
be and I think this is also why we have
[TS]
◼
►
so many geeks myself included feel such
[TS]
◼
►
a visceral connection to homophobia and
[TS]
◼
►
gay rights I don't know if you feel this
[TS]
◼
►
as well but I realized this several
[TS]
◼
►
years ago i'm like why is it that i get
[TS]
◼
►
like you know like my my adrenaline
[TS]
◼
►
starts pumping it's like I get the
[TS]
◼
►
flight or flight response anytime
[TS]
◼
►
anything having to do with you know
[TS]
◼
►
anything you know sort of hate crimes
[TS]
◼
►
and homophobia and all that gay right
[TS]
◼
►
stuff is like why I'm having this
[TS]
◼
►
reaction I realize I'm having this
[TS]
◼
►
reaction because it's exactly the same
[TS]
◼
►
thing as you know being treated badly
[TS]
◼
►
uh unfairly right it doesn't matter what
[TS]
◼
►
the part of who you are is it just it it
[TS]
◼
►
shouldn't be that way and it's I
[TS]
◼
►
injustice is injustice yeah and it's not
[TS]
◼
►
exactly and it's a it makes it I think
[TS]
◼
►
growing up a geek and being subject to
[TS]
◼
►
that makes you you know I can do several
[TS]
◼
►
things you can make you into a terrible
[TS]
◼
►
misogynist yes but it can also turn you
[TS]
◼
►
over to someone who is like keenly
[TS]
◼
►
attuned to other people who are being
[TS]
◼
►
like you know that person is feeling the
[TS]
◼
►
way you felt maybe even a hundred times
[TS]
◼
►
worse and but like you know that feeling
[TS]
◼
►
right like that's terrible that must be
[TS]
◼
►
stopped right in my sight you know it it
[TS]
◼
►
triggers the fight-or-flight response
[TS]
◼
►
just adrenaline pumps induce us know
[TS]
◼
►
right now i know i tried political stuff
[TS]
◼
►
on the show or whatever but in my
[TS]
◼
►
opinion this is a then this is a human
[TS]
◼
►
rights issue not a political thing and
[TS]
◼
►
if you've decided now to write off the
[TS]
◼
►
entire 96 episode run of this podcast
[TS]
◼
►
ignore all my future work I'm sorry but
[TS]
◼
►
certain things are worth standing up for
[TS]
◼
►
and this is one of them so anyway the
[TS]
◼
►
lesson of this very special episode of
[TS]
◼
►
hyper critical or very similar is it a
[TS]
◼
►
moral or a lesson I don't know what this
[TS]
◼
►
you can decide I'll say in the immortal
[TS]
◼
►
words of George Carlin starring
[TS]
◼
►
co-starring I don't know who's featured
[TS]
◼
►
in a movie that may be older than some
[TS]
◼
►
people listening to this podcast right
[TS]
◼
►
now be excellent to each other dan I
[TS]
◼
►
think that's the lesson okay kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like an eye for an eye no not that's not
[TS]
◼
►
that's a totally different treat others
[TS]
◼
►
how you would like to be treated yeah in
[TS]
◼
►
that the golden rule is the reason I got
[TS]
◼
►
all worked about this inside to put it
[TS]
◼
►
in the show is like I read all these
[TS]
◼
►
things you know these geek culture
[TS]
◼
►
related things with the fake geek girls
[TS]
◼
►
and everything and it seemed like people
[TS]
◼
►
were losing the thread it was like no
[TS]
◼
►
don't you understand guys like I thought
[TS]
◼
►
it seems to me that there's a there's a
[TS]
◼
►
vast agreement on this like when I go to
[TS]
◼
►
pax I feel like yes we all understand
[TS]
◼
►
son spoken everyone here understands
[TS]
◼
►
this is the place where we can all come
[TS]
◼
►
and be at our best and that our best is
[TS]
◼
►
not judging anybody for anything not
[TS]
◼
►
making anyone feel the way some of us
[TS]
◼
►
may felt for whatever reasons no matter
[TS]
◼
►
what they're into you know and like
[TS]
◼
►
ideally that would extend out to
[TS]
◼
►
everyday life and everywhere but like
[TS]
◼
►
this is a safe place where you can go
[TS]
◼
►
and look like don't we all agree on that
[TS]
◼
►
and then the fake geek girl thing is
[TS]
◼
►
like no that is the exact opposite that
[TS]
◼
►
is going to that convention and then
[TS]
◼
►
somehow this little berylon strain the
[TS]
◼
►
virus gets in there it's like well
[TS]
◼
►
here except for those fake geek girls
[TS]
◼
►
who give me funny feelings and wear
[TS]
◼
►
outfits they're not really into that
[TS]
◼
►
anyways I know it's the opposite if they
[TS]
◼
►
want to come and they want to dress like
[TS]
◼
►
some they've never heard of who cares
[TS]
◼
►
like you're supposed to welcome them you
[TS]
◼
►
know that's the whole point and it kills
[TS]
◼
►
me that that happens in this venue and
[TS]
◼
►
the one venue you know he's convinced
[TS]
◼
►
that things were it's supposed to be the
[TS]
◼
►
exemplar of how how we geeks are
[TS]
◼
►
supposed to act the best of the best and
[TS]
◼
►
this comes in and it's just the exact
[TS]
◼
►
opposite of everything that we're all
[TS]
◼
►
supposed to be about so it just pissed
[TS]
◼
►
me off it pissed me off that these
[TS]
◼
►
threads are bouncing that there are
[TS]
◼
►
arguments about this well you don't
[TS]
◼
►
understand fake geek girls real are fake
[TS]
◼
►
and they need you and it's not just from
[TS]
◼
►
you know misogynist males like one of
[TS]
◼
►
the articles I read here cited was
[TS]
◼
►
written by by a female saying yeah these
[TS]
◼
►
fake geek girls stop trying to be a geek
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever I get back to the bullet
[TS]
◼
►
points that what was that authors names
[TS]
◼
►
I gotta get out here again oh where was
[TS]
◼
►
that Susan what was her name susana polo
[TS]
◼
►
you know it just lays off with the
[TS]
◼
►
proper response just you know if you see
[TS]
◼
►
someone who is like it falls under the
[TS]
◼
►
scatter all their a fake girl they don't
[TS]
◼
►
know about to tell them about other cool
[TS]
◼
►
stuff don't assume like you don't really
[TS]
◼
►
like it you're just posing for some
[TS]
◼
►
crazy know that like if they really are
[TS]
◼
►
posing for attention like who cares like
[TS]
◼
►
everyone is welcome if they want to be
[TS]
◼
►
part of your community they're welcome
[TS]
◼
►
that's the whole that's the whole point
[TS]
◼
►
no one comes and said well you can come
[TS]
◼
►
and sit down play a board game with us
[TS]
◼
►
but you're dressed to some crazy
[TS]
◼
►
character and you know you're weird and
[TS]
◼
►
pimply narrow tequila and smelly so you
[TS]
◼
►
have to go someplace else that that
[TS]
◼
►
should never happen at you know in real
[TS]
◼
►
life a but if we can't do an entire
[TS]
◼
►
world then the very least at pax and
[TS]
◼
►
then our conventions so it's the one
[TS]
◼
►
place you're safe yeah and real and
[TS]
◼
►
really should be everywhere but like
[TS]
◼
►
what can we start with can we start with
[TS]
◼
►
conventions can we not have you know it
[TS]
◼
►
just it just pisses me off what what
[TS]
◼
►
brought all this on I just seeing these
[TS]
◼
►
articles like if there's it's kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like you know I don't want to get into
[TS]
◼
►
political stuff rights but I see it see
[TS]
◼
►
that there's a this is a debate like oh
[TS]
◼
►
this is the topic we need to debate we
[TS]
◼
►
had that pro and con against fake geek
[TS]
◼
►
girl know this there is no there's no
[TS]
◼
►
there's no pro for that meme there's no
[TS]
◼
►
there's no there there there's no
[TS]
◼
►
reality that mean it's not like well
[TS]
◼
►
real thing no the whole point if they
[TS]
◼
►
come to the show they dresses somebody
[TS]
◼
►
that you know they're welcome they're
[TS]
◼
►
not less welcome because they happen to
[TS]
◼
►
be you know a beautiful woman then they
[TS]
◼
►
would be if they were you know a
[TS]
◼
►
horrible ugly trolled adolescent pimply
[TS]
◼
►
bought like everyone is welcome no
[TS]
◼
►
faking no posing know anything that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's the point and it just drives me
[TS]
◼
►
nuts that their articles bouncing around
[TS]
◼
►
the web over the course of an entire
[TS]
◼
►
year debating this as if it's not like
[TS]
◼
►
like people are people just losing you
[TS]
◼
►
know what the whole point is and it
[TS]
◼
►
seems crazy to me like I figured it all
[TS]
◼
►
just go away because if you ever attend
[TS]
◼
►
packs you you feel that you're like
[TS]
◼
►
everyone pretty much agrees you know
[TS]
◼
►
that this is the way it's supposed to be
[TS]
◼
►
but there's this little apparently this
[TS]
◼
►
little tiny thread worming its way
[TS]
◼
►
through there you know infecting
[TS]
◼
►
people's minds and it's screwing things
[TS]
◼
►
up and needs to be it needs to be
[TS]
◼
►
corrected and stamped out and we need to
[TS]
◼
►
be conscious of it no you're upset I can
[TS]
◼
►
tell you're upset I am I know this this
[TS]
◼
►
could be this is you say this is where
[TS]
◼
►
the show jump the shark when he's trying
[TS]
◼
►
to get another political stuff and did
[TS]
◼
►
these big rants about things and call me
[TS]
◼
►
a misogynist I didn't like that part
[TS]
◼
►
well sorry guys the show's ending soon
[TS]
◼
►
anyway so you'll be safe yeah you know
[TS]
◼
►
was saying that the final episode should
[TS]
◼
►
be about free will yeah I'm go there
[TS]
◼
►
I'll go here though I'll go here because
[TS]
◼
►
like I think this is on topic geek
[TS]
◼
►
culture definitely on topic forever
[TS]
◼
►
critical the excellent to each other
[TS]
◼
►
folks have anything to add damn from
[TS]
◼
►
your experience I don't have anything
[TS]
◼
►
add to this you cover it all I mean
[TS]
◼
►
first of all you cover it all but second
[TS]
◼
►
of all you know I think there's a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
I think it's different nowadays I talked
[TS]
◼
►
to people today in in there you know
[TS]
◼
►
like 20 s if you're in your 20s right
[TS]
◼
►
now it's that you're growing up in a
[TS]
◼
►
very different world at least from the
[TS]
◼
►
geek standpoint I can't I can't speak to
[TS]
◼
►
the other topics you brought up but in
[TS]
◼
►
the geek standpoint people who are who
[TS]
◼
►
are in our generation who would have
[TS]
◼
►
been considered to be misfits or uncool
[TS]
◼
►
like I remember I have a vivid memory of
[TS]
◼
►
being i guess it was 11 years old and
[TS]
◼
►
devos album with whip
[TS]
◼
►
on there came out this is vinyl folks
[TS]
◼
►
and I had this album and i loved this
[TS]
◼
►
album and I felt like Devo was speaking
[TS]
◼
►
not directly to me in the sort of crazy
[TS]
◼
►
way but like these were my kind of guys
[TS]
◼
►
like they made music that I liked they
[TS]
◼
►
were weird and they were unafraid to be
[TS]
◼
►
weird and they were unafraid to sort of
[TS]
◼
►
and I I couldn't couldn't verbalized it
[TS]
◼
►
this way when I was 11 years old but
[TS]
◼
►
they were unafraid to challenge
[TS]
◼
►
authority and do unconventional things
[TS]
◼
►
and and have fun with it and make it fun
[TS]
◼
►
and make it interesting and make it
[TS]
◼
►
something that was different from
[TS]
◼
►
everything else that was out there and
[TS]
◼
►
yet somehow go a little bit get get get
[TS]
◼
►
popular I don't say go mainstream but
[TS]
◼
►
and I remember talking to somebody who
[TS]
◼
►
would you know was a quote unquote
[TS]
◼
►
friend of mine I thought and like we
[TS]
◼
►
were talking about music or something in
[TS]
◼
►
in the classroom one day and I said oh
[TS]
◼
►
gee you know you have you ever listened
[TS]
◼
►
to devo you know that cool song wit but
[TS]
◼
►
have you ever listened and he's like you
[TS]
◼
►
listen to devo I was like yeah he and
[TS]
◼
►
he'd like he did the little like you
[TS]
◼
►
take your forefingers you know the
[TS]
◼
►
Ultraman the thing were you if you were
[TS]
◼
►
Ultraman how you would shoot out the the
[TS]
◼
►
main attack like you cross your hands
[TS]
◼
►
over run it well he made like the little
[TS]
◼
►
Christian cross with his two fingers one
[TS]
◼
►
goes one way one goes the other like a
[TS]
◼
►
tea with your fingers and was like
[TS]
◼
►
what's wrong you know like get away from
[TS]
◼
►
me but that's that was not an isolated
[TS]
◼
►
incident that was like if you if you
[TS]
◼
►
like we're into weird stuff like that
[TS]
◼
►
was normal you know that was the normal
[TS]
◼
►
response that I ran into throughout like
[TS]
◼
►
all of grain you eventually learn like
[TS]
◼
►
oh I guess I can't talk about anything I
[TS]
◼
►
like you know you find the one or two
[TS]
◼
►
other kids or like like D&D and you're
[TS]
◼
►
all kind of shamefully admitting to each
[TS]
◼
►
other you made maybe I kind of like that
[TS]
◼
►
thing and then you find out the other
[TS]
◼
►
kid likes you like to die love Dean D
[TS]
◼
►
know what I mean and and and it was like
[TS]
◼
►
you had to almost like downplay you had
[TS]
◼
►
to do it was bad enough that like you
[TS]
◼
►
know you couldn't play sports you know
[TS]
◼
►
but you didn't want to give the the you
[TS]
◼
►
show completely show your hand and that
[TS]
◼
►
really sucks now it's like Oh II
[TS]
◼
►
you do this different thing that other
[TS]
◼
►
people don't do like now you're setting
[TS]
◼
►
a trend so I think I think that aspect
[TS]
◼
►
of it has changed and I've talked to
[TS]
◼
►
people about this and it seems like
[TS]
◼
►
people's minds are open a bit more to
[TS]
◼
►
this kind of thing at least in major
[TS]
◼
►
cities i was i like that i like to think
[TS]
◼
►
that the trend is positive but i have to
[TS]
◼
►
think that just because the specific
[TS]
◼
►
things that may have been you'd been
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculed for when we were kids are now
[TS]
◼
►
more accepted there's just something
[TS]
◼
►
else that replaces it like there's
[TS]
◼
►
always a point that some kid is getting
[TS]
◼
►
like you know think things are evergreen
[TS]
◼
►
like being ugly and awkward that will
[TS]
◼
►
never be cool right being ugly is the
[TS]
◼
►
worst thing in the entire world in like
[TS]
◼
►
middle school in high school right and
[TS]
◼
►
that's never going to change there's no
[TS]
◼
►
trend it's not kind of knocking oh
[TS]
◼
►
you're a trendsetter your hideously ugly
[TS]
◼
►
no it's not gonna happen being awkward
[TS]
◼
►
like physically awkward socially awkward
[TS]
◼
►
that is never going to be cool and
[TS]
◼
►
popular right so there's always
[TS]
◼
►
something that people are being slammed
[TS]
◼
►
for and you know that's I'm trying to be
[TS]
◼
►
vigilant about that was like oh it's not
[TS]
◼
►
a big deal I when I was a kid I couldn't
[TS]
◼
►
admit I liked computers but nowadays
[TS]
◼
►
it's cool that may be true and maybe
[TS]
◼
►
your kid is lucky and he happens to be
[TS]
◼
►
into computers and you know it's not a
[TS]
◼
►
big deal but there's always gonna be
[TS]
◼
►
something right as kids are animals yes
[TS]
◼
►
so I am vigilant to to I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
like say yeah I hope it has gotten
[TS]
◼
►
better you know but I not that much
[TS]
◼
►
better yeah I mean so I was gonna want
[TS]
◼
►
make sure that I don't like oh you don't
[TS]
◼
►
understand kid when I was a kid you
[TS]
◼
►
couldn't play D&D now you got it so easy
[TS]
◼
►
maybe they don't have it easy me no no
[TS]
◼
►
they didn't know you're right about
[TS]
◼
►
replacing it but I'm just saying like a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of the things that I think I I don't
[TS]
◼
►
say we've it that I remember from my
[TS]
◼
►
childhood a lot of those things have
[TS]
◼
►
gone away and people it it seems like
[TS]
◼
►
they're more accepted like you're saying
[TS]
◼
►
they're more accepting of those kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
things and and some of those things have
[TS]
◼
►
kind of become cool but it's always
[TS]
◼
►
interesting for me to wonder why they've
[TS]
◼
►
become cool and and other things that
[TS]
◼
►
have replaced them it seems like those
[TS]
◼
►
things have gotten more intense and
[TS]
◼
►
almost worse well I feel like the way it
[TS]
◼
►
works is that you know the generation
[TS]
◼
►
that was into those things became adults
[TS]
◼
►
and now like we control the world right
[TS]
◼
►
damn you control it from your console
[TS]
◼
►
there under the volcano sure all right
[TS]
◼
►
and we get to decide the computers are
[TS]
◼
►
cool because we changed the world with
[TS]
◼
►
you're welcome right but and you know as
[TS]
◼
►
we grow to it like just like the kids
[TS]
◼
►
who are you know I maybe not diva but I
[TS]
◼
►
guess kind of like when that generation
[TS]
◼
►
grows up to adulthood and if they are
[TS]
◼
►
successful they can influence the way
[TS]
◼
►
the culture look so now you know and
[TS]
◼
►
plus computer just become common so like
[TS]
◼
►
how can they be uncool like they're
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everywhere deal with it right so that
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that's how I think that trying to happen
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but what happens is and this is what we
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call progress it sounds terrible but
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this is called progress is when the
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thing that was uncool becomes acceptable
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you just pull from the bin that's down
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there the big black velvet bag with like
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the green smoke coming out of it and you
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just reach your hand in there and you
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pull the next thing up when I was in
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high school you know we had gay kids in
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our class but nobody talked about them
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it was like totally in the closet type
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of thing now it's like all right so fine
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it's okay to be a geek or whatever let's
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reach into that bag look what we found
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homosexuality all right well now that's
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going to come up but we're gonna have to
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deal with that as a real thing and so
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next whatever you know the same thing
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with you know generations whatever you
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think you come from with all I'm very
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calm through intolerant oh yeah I'm
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gonna reach into the bag again oh look
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transgender people how do you feel about
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that and you're like oh wait wait it's
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like I'm not comfortable with that right
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there's always something in the bag for
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you to reach down to that's gonna test
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your you know tolerance right and that
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sounds terrible that each time we have
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to deal with this new type of thing but
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that's progress like it's good now you
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know that that gay kids in high school
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have clubs and support groups and are
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out in the open and you know any kind of
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hatred towards them or whatever is
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stamped down like that's progress right
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but they have to fight they had to fight
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that fight and it's still not easy for
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them you know and and one once that's
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done like three generations from now
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when we have a gay president and it's no
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big deal and we look back on anyone who
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thought of it as a big deal is barbaric
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right that would progress too but
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they'll always be something else down
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the bag will pull up you know who it's
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going to be a people with like alien DNA
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but and who knows but like them this
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stopped down there like I think
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transgender it's a great example because
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lots of people who are you know totally
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pro-gay rights and everything are still
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uncomfortable with that but like you
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know there's always a more marginalized
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group and then like I said the things
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that are evergreen physical
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attractiveness into anti-intellectualism
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is another big one I felt that a lot in
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school that like being smart was not
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cool and that seems crazy to me but I
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think it's still there dad
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definitely still there right and it
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depends in the school it depends on the
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environment you're in stuff like that
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but yeah there's always something down
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there but yeah that I think that's that
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should be the hallmark of geek culture
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is you know just picking the group that
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I happen to be in but like if you
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experience them and that's really the
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hallmark of gay culture any type of you
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know marginalized group if you
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experience any kind of discrimination
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►
and you know exclusion and ridicule in
[TS]
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►
your formative years because of
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►
something that you know it's part of
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your nature that is that should not be
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condemned but is what you should bring
[TS]
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from that is like I said the the mission
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in life to never make another person
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feel this way and if you see someone
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►
making someone else feel this way even
[TS]
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►
if it's about something has nothing to
[TS]
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►
do with you you can say it doesn't
[TS]
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matter I you know I'm not gay but I know
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what that gay kid feels like right now
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and it's terrible it needs to stop right
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ah that that's what we should be
[TS]
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bringing out of this I think it's what I
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think it's what most geeks do bring out
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►
I think that's what should define geek
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culture and when it doesn't something is
[TS]
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►
going wrong this really was a very
[TS]
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►
special episode underling man it was
[TS]
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►
very special this is a whole different
[TS]
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►
side of you you waited you know nine
[TS]
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►
ninety five episodes to reveal it it's
[TS]
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►
the same side it's the geek side ya know
[TS]
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►
is that issue Andy I think on said it's
[TS]
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►
a short show 102 minutes all right well
[TS]
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►
if you want to talk to john about this
[TS]
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►
he will engage with you best i would say
[TS]
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►
on twitter which is a siracusa SI RAC
[TS]
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►
u.s.a on twitter he's also on Alpha
[TS]
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►
app.net siracusa he's also in Siracusa
[TS]
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►
dot just for you siracusa tent
[TS]
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►
that is and if you would like to send an
[TS]
◼
►
email john obviously does read those and
[TS]
◼
►
many times will read them on the air
[TS]
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►
five by five TV / contact need to pick
[TS]
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►
hypercritical and hit Send it'll go to
[TS]
◼
►
him and me and I think that's it I'm
[TS]
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►
damn Benjamin on Twitter show notes are
[TS]
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►
at five by five TV / hypercritical / 96
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►
thanks everyone for listening by John
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