94: Shrink, Shrink, Shrink!
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you can't thread this thing through
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until the needle comes down but you got
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to make sure the needle is all the way
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down before you grab it then you what
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you have to start and stop a piece of
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machinery from moving it's there is a
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limit how fast a sewing machine can
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operate this is hypercritical weekly
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talk show ruminating on exactly what's
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wrong we'll have apple related
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technologies and businesses nothing is
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so perfect that it can't be complained
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about by my friend and yours John
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siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin today is
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Friday November 16 2012 this is episode
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number 94 of our beloved hypercritical
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show we would like to say thank you very
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much to our sponsors today squarespace
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com hover com and lynda.com who are
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collaborating to make this show possible
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we also want to thank mutual mobile
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these guys are super passionate about
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iOS as a platform they have a large
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dedicated team all these guys do is
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conceived deliver and support mobile
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solutions for global brands and you know
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what they want some help they want some
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help they trust your engineers freedom
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to make technical decisions by hiring
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smart talented people to their team and
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that's you they want you you need to
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come in and once you do iOS work with
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them they're a great company they
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support the iOS community they do
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meetups they do hackathons to do all the
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cool stuff and just by going and looking
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at this job you can support this show
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careers dot mutual mobile com such
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five-by-five go there to learn more and
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of course we'd be irresponsible and
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potentially liable if we did not mention
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the bandwidth for November's brought to
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you by mind node mind mapping app for
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mac and iOS and brainstorm your project
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you can organize your life you plan your
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vacation don't matter they late collect
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structure expand your ideas they have
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icloud sharing keep your mind maps with
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you very very cool app beloved mind node
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dot-com how are you doing today John
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siracusa I'm just fine you still the
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same end time we got to be out of here
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by noon well what time is our thing over
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to Evernote 1145 and we need to prep for
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it a little bit and I'd say fifteen
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minutes to get over there yeah I mean if
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we go if we go 15 minutes past it's fine
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so 1215 all right well we gotta get
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started then let's do it boom yeah we
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one major topic of follow-up and then
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one main topic for the show so maybe
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we'll fit it in we'll see first let's
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start with some little tiny follow-up
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first one is from one canepa CA and the
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EPA okay I did on that while back we
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talked about the microsoft surface and
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how much free space was available on it
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right up because the OS and bail office
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took up a lot of room yes and they don't
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have a 16 gig model daily up 32 and the
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last show I think I mentioned that one
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of the big outs that you get with
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Microsoft services that it's got or the
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surface RT anyways you got a place to
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plug in an SD card and SD cards are
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cheap by third-party SD card shoved in
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there by 64 gig SD card and suddenly
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your surface has tons of space well one
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writes in to tell me and the world that
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that's all well and good but apparently
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you can't install applications on the SD
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card so you can put photos and videos
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and things that are actually big but the
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applications have to be on the main
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system I don't think that's a big
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limiting factor but it does explain how
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they manage to deal with like what
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happens if I yank up the SD card do a
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bunch of my apps disappear well no
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because you can't put any apps on uh-huh
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so that's interesting compromise and i
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believe is only applies to the RT when
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the surface pro comes that I think you
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will be able to put apps there but we'll
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see alright another little tidbit from
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Ali Hawkins last week he talked about
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putting music behind ads you actually
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talked about this on build and analyzed
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to how you had put the music track
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behind that ad read you did when Marco
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had the ad on Howard Stern Show and I
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asked you what the name of that thing
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was called you didn't quite know a
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couple people wrote in including Ali to
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say that that's called a bed apparently
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yeah I that's just something that I
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should have been able to respond to I've
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heard it referred to as a couple
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different things bed is the correct term
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music bed if you want to get specific
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about it there you go but there you go
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now the world knows all right now on to
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the main topic of follow-up which
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believe it or not actually shouldn't be
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surprising as one of the small things we
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talked about last week was a voting
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this is not a political show John that's
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right I was happy to see that we didn't
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get any feedback as far as I saw from
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people who are angry about politics
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because we didn't talk about politics we
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just talked about voting technology but
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there were lots of people who are not
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angry but engaged on the topic of voting
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technology I'm going to read a couple of
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snippets of feedback here and you tell
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me if you would notice a theme mostly
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because I cherry picked these and it
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makes it look like this a theme but now
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this really was the theme of a lot of
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feedback to the first is from andreas
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hartl he says paper-based method without
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anything more high-tech than a ballpoint
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pen does work vote counting can be
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verified by anybody without
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sophisticated technical or mathematical
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skills it's only downside is that you
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have to wait a little bit longer for the
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result and he gave me a link to the 25th
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chaos communication congress website
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where they had a paper and a
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presentation on a voting technology i
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put them both in the show notes so you
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can read the paper and also watch the
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video which is kind of long and boring
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but it's all there and the the paper is
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avoiding after any da p which is a
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german voting system and digital pin
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which is another kind of electronic
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voting and subtitle is why cryptography
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might not fix the issue of transparent
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elections and is a little bit from the
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abstract these methods introduce a level
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of complexity into elections which
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prevents most voters from understanding
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the election process and its
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verification where elections are
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currently controlled by the people trust
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in the ability of experts is required
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when cryptographic methods are
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introduced the next bit of feedback is
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from Leonard if I'm pronouncing isn't
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incorrectly because it's felt a little
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bit differently there's one thing that
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paper voting system has going for that
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no computer system will ever get it's
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entirely comprehensible observable and
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provable by the simplest educated
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persons this is essential for trust in
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the voting process what are you saying
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is that that anybody with just the basic
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understanding of making a mark on a
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paper in a certain place can verify this
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right versus the electronic and
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cryptographic ones require master's
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level computer science degree of you'll
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figure it out all right he says contrast
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this to making a cross in a circle
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putting it in a box and they
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counting the votes and two piles it's so
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simple that even a six-year-old can get
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it a six-year-old could observe me doing
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it and testified cheatham a six-year-old
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can verify my result he does not need to
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trust me and he said any computer system
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has the problem that is basically magic
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to normal people he also says they have
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a word in German about this but I'm not
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going to try to pronounce it I'll come
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on no come on out but apparently is it
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means roughly that a ruling group has
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now it has a knowledge advantage that
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they could use to control the uneducated
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let's see next one from john berg mayor
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any system needs to be capable of paper
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recounts a lot of the theoretically very
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secure systems you mentioned doing do
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you have audible papal trails but the
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point is this but this point is so
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amazingly important that many of the
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tech nerds talk about voting misted it
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needs to be possible to conduct a
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complete hand recount without any
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computers without electricity even that
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no system ever to the end of time no
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matter what technology is ever invented
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that does not have the capability the
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capability doing a recount that can be
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conducted by candlelight without
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computers is a suitable choice next one
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is from Mike Musel I talks about what
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they have in Germany is that in Germany
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in 2009 our highest court ruled that
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voting computers we had up until then
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did violate the principles of our
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constitutions elections have certain
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requirements that must be fulfilled in
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order to be called democratic the
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manganese is the need for the election
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to be transparent to the voters and
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verifiable with our good old crosses on
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paper ballots even a ninety-year-old
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non-tech lady can stay at the polling
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station after the election is closed
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watch the ballots to be correctly
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counted and note the sum of the votes
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for each party even if you had a
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cryptographically totally secure
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voting's computer setup how could that
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nine-year-old non-tech lady know that
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everything is correct she can't she
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would have to trust the tech people how
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can she know that those people one
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hundred percent trustworthy and
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competent again she can't there's no way
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let's see if there's anything more on
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this one I just about up anyone can go
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and count the votes she has a good point
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about smartphone voting remotely or
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whatever it says even for technically
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feasible it would pose a risk that for
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example husband trusts the control house
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wife boat pilot the security print
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principal Democrat elections
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if you're not doing it in a controlled
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pulling place anonymously people who try
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to control across your boat so we did
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remote voting Omri our Beave rights in
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with a link to NPR on the media podcast
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segment about online voting and it's a
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short segment like five minutes long and
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it's about how is the country of Estonia
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has been has been doing online voting
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since 2005 they have government issued
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identification cards with the password
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and that's the only real security
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measure taken when they just basically
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you know over the internet do their
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votes so you want to hear how that's
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working out in a country that's actually
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doing it and the pros and cons of that
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approach take a look at that also in the
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show notes so show notes five by five
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dot TV such hypercritical / 94 yes many
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many links we've already just burned
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through in this quick follow-up so the
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theme here as you can see is the idea
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that you need to have a you need to have
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a way to both understand like you know
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non-technical birth needs to be able to
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understand what's going on the voting
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system and also the boring system still
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needs to work ah by candlelight with no
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electricity hmm now the first thing imma
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say on this topic is that a secure you
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know and inaudible electronic voting
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system doesn't preclude any of these
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things in fact some of these systems
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that were linked in that in the past
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shows show notes showed that yes the you
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know just because you use cryptography
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and electronic things to make the thing
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auditable and secure and all that stuff
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doesn't mean that you don't also have
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okay so say the power was out no one has
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any computers because it's like the
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terrible premise of the show revolution
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you still end up with a bunch of paper
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artifacts that you could then hand count
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manually right so it's not you know
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various voting systems passed or failed
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this thing but there's nothing inherent
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about electronic voting or
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cryptographically secure voting that
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doesn't say also you have you know it
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doesn't preclude you having this
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auditable paper trail right ah so most
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of these feedback you know acknowledge
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that but the other thing is to said you
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know all right so you can make it secure
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an electronic or whatever better you
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also have to sort of degrade gracefully
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there has to be a paper trail an
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artifact in the ability to do a Henry
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count but that aside I don't think any
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of these requirements you know eliminate
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electronic voting another thing in
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Germany Bailey had to eliminate the
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cruddy electronic voting machines they
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had and by the way several people from
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different countries wrote in to say that
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they have similar problems the US where
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when electronic voting machines were
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rolled out they were worse in all
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possible ways than the things that they
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were replacing we have the same problem
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the United States pointed last showbiz
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that that doesn't need to be the case
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that we have the smarts to make this
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better but it is important to recognize
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it just making electronic usually seems
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to go terribly wrong because of just you
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know corruption and competence and all
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the usual things that happen in
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government but I want to think about
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this idea that the the election both
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these idea is that that an election
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system needs to work by candlelight and
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the people need to understand so first
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the candlelight one people I understand
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people fearing comforted by the idea
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that if a giant EMP goes often destroys
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all electricity producing things or
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whatever crazy scenario you want to come
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out with that we can you know you a
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bunch of old ladies could do the recount
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like you don't need to understand
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anything you just need to look at pieces
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of paper and put them into piles and
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then count the things in the pile and
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you have 20 different people do this
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it's completely comprehensible the
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comfort of that is obvious like you
[TS]
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don't like something that you don't
[TS]
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understand but the comfort of that I
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think is mostly theoretical because
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there's no way that any single person is
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going to be able to hand count all the
[TS]
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votes for any country or a significant
[TS]
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size all right a group of people can
[TS]
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hand count them in a distributed manner
[TS]
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►
and then they add up their sums and you
[TS]
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have people repeated or whatever but in
[TS]
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general it you know you can never have
[TS]
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every single person in the country get
[TS]
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their hands on all the paper ballots
[TS]
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like say you took all the paper ballots
[TS]
◼
►
and the country the size of the US and
[TS]
◼
►
each person the entire country got a
[TS]
◼
►
chance to hand count them to verify for
[TS]
◼
►
themselves well that's just obviously
[TS]
◼
►
not going to work right so in all cases
[TS]
◼
►
you're trusting that some group of
[TS]
◼
►
people that is not you is trustworthy in
[TS]
◼
►
some way or at least it there that their
[TS]
◼
►
biases are counter to each other and
[TS]
◼
►
balance each other out or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
but people like to just think that you
[TS]
◼
►
know okay well I'm not going to hang out
[TS]
◼
►
the ballots and no 10 is going to Hank
[TS]
◼
►
out the balance but I do though that 17
[TS]
◼
►
people hand counted the ballots and half
[TS]
◼
►
of them were for party a and half of
[TS]
◼
►
them from a party B and if they keep
[TS]
◼
►
coming up with the same numbers i trust
[TS]
◼
►
those number right I don't quite see the
[TS]
◼
►
connection between that distributed
[TS]
◼
►
trust where you didn't do it your friend
[TS]
◼
►
didn't do it but eventually there's some
[TS]
◼
►
group of people who actually had
[TS]
◼
►
encountered the things and anyone can
[TS]
◼
►
volunteer to count them liking all
[TS]
◼
►
countries like Jeremy and stuff anyone
[TS]
◼
►
can go down there and count them and
[TS]
◼
►
satisfy themselves but everybody can't
[TS]
◼
►
go down account so there is some remote
[TS]
◼
►
trust and the idea that okay but I
[TS]
◼
►
understand what they're doing they're
[TS]
◼
►
just looking at pieces of paper and
[TS]
◼
►
counting them sorting them into piles I
[TS]
◼
►
understand that process I don't think
[TS]
◼
►
those things are as connected as people
[TS]
◼
►
seem to think they are ah that because
[TS]
◼
►
you understand the system therefore this
[TS]
◼
►
indirect trust is more trustworthy right
[TS]
◼
►
because indirect trust for set work for
[TS]
◼
►
when you're saying I don't you know
[TS]
◼
►
these mathematicians assure me that it's
[TS]
◼
►
correct but I don't know these
[TS]
◼
►
mathematicians right that indirect dress
[TS]
◼
►
is no good but the indirect trust of
[TS]
◼
►
seven people away from you a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
people counted a piece of paper that's
[TS]
◼
►
better because you're like okay not only
[TS]
◼
►
am I trusting these people who are not
[TS]
◼
►
me but I understand what they're doing
[TS]
◼
►
therefore I feel like I'm less likely to
[TS]
◼
►
be cheated my argument would be that
[TS]
◼
►
it's much easier to like if those people
[TS]
◼
►
were cheating or there was some sort of
[TS]
◼
►
organized cheating conspiracy there
[TS]
◼
►
there is nothing that anyone else can do
[TS]
◼
►
to verify that they're not cheating
[TS]
◼
►
except for count them themselves whereas
[TS]
◼
►
and this is I think you know this is may
[TS]
◼
►
come back to people not understanding
[TS]
◼
►
the the mathematical details of
[TS]
◼
►
cryptography and stuff like that or I
[TS]
◼
►
mean I don't understand the mathematical
[TS]
◼
►
details but just like the consequences
[TS]
◼
►
of it if you can imagine a system where
[TS]
◼
►
uh you add up a bunch of numbers and you
[TS]
◼
►
come up with a total like 12 or 13 right
[TS]
◼
►
and what you want to know is did my vote
[TS]
◼
►
contribute to that number 12 it seems
[TS]
◼
►
impossible because you just thought up
[TS]
◼
►
with the number 12 you have no idea if
[TS]
◼
►
your vote was part of that 12 right how
[TS]
◼
►
can how can you ever know that you know
[TS]
◼
►
it was just 12 was made up of a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
votes maybe one of those was yours maybe
[TS]
◼
►
it wasn't maybe your
[TS]
◼
►
was counted maybe it wasn't you just
[TS]
◼
►
know number 12 will imagine the system
[TS]
◼
►
where you could come up with a total
[TS]
◼
►
number of votes and you could be
[TS]
◼
►
mathematically assured that your vote
[TS]
◼
►
contributed to that total this is the
[TS]
◼
►
getting into the magic thing it's like
[TS]
◼
►
what do you mean that makes no sense you
[TS]
◼
►
can't tell if your number contribute at
[TS]
◼
►
all that's impossible well there are
[TS]
◼
►
things that you can do mathematically to
[TS]
◼
►
make that so that you can confirm that
[TS]
◼
►
your vote really did contribute to the
[TS]
◼
►
total and that if your vote wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
counted towards a total in the correct
[TS]
◼
►
manner the total would not validate in a
[TS]
◼
►
particular way uh this is going to help
[TS]
◼
►
anybody because this is even more
[TS]
◼
►
complicated but if you ever go read up
[TS]
◼
►
on Bitcoin which is this distributed
[TS]
◼
►
fiat currency / scam / whatever you know
[TS]
◼
►
you know I don't know how you want to
[TS]
◼
►
talk about wait why are you calling a
[TS]
◼
►
scam that's not a scam but like it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's an economic thing where it's kind
[TS]
◼
►
of like gambling but not really but the
[TS]
◼
►
currency and the imaginary nature of
[TS]
◼
►
money is a topic that's beyond the scope
[TS]
◼
►
of this podcast we're talking right now
[TS]
◼
►
but the one thing Bitcoin does have
[TS]
◼
►
going for it is that it has the system
[TS]
◼
►
whereby everybody who's part of the
[TS]
◼
►
Bitcoin system can tell whether a
[TS]
◼
►
transaction is valid or not like you
[TS]
◼
►
can't sneak in an invalid transaction
[TS]
◼
►
that you know puts more money into one
[TS]
◼
►
account that it took then it took out of
[TS]
◼
►
the other or whatever because this is
[TS]
◼
►
consensus type of algorithm and those
[TS]
◼
►
things will be invalidated and it's
[TS]
◼
►
basically possible to tell whether the
[TS]
◼
►
money that you put it in correctly
[TS]
◼
►
transferred to over there ah
[TS]
◼
►
mathematically and so that's that you
[TS]
◼
►
know that ignores all the whether it's a
[TS]
◼
►
good idea to get into Bitcoin and then
[TS]
◼
►
how much it's valued and stuff like that
[TS]
◼
►
just simply the foundation of being able
[TS]
◼
►
to tell that these inputs produce this
[TS]
◼
►
output in this particular way and that
[TS]
◼
►
everybody in the system has to agree on
[TS]
◼
►
it for the system to move forward agree
[TS]
◼
►
sounds like it's something anyway it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's basically a much more complicated
[TS]
◼
►
version of the thing that I was saying
[TS]
◼
►
where if you have a total number you
[TS]
◼
►
want to know that your vote counted
[TS]
◼
►
towards it and that's something you can
[TS]
◼
►
do with math there's always going to be
[TS]
◼
►
a secret somewhere of some secret key or
[TS]
◼
►
some other things being corrupted or
[TS]
◼
►
stolen but trusting that there's a
[TS]
◼
►
mathematical foundation to proving
[TS]
◼
►
whether something happened or not
[TS]
◼
►
I i think is better than trusting that
[TS]
◼
►
people you don't know and never going to
[TS]
◼
►
meet have hand counted these things
[TS]
◼
►
simply because you think they're you
[TS]
◼
►
know balancing each other off and if
[TS]
◼
►
they were cheating they would catch each
[TS]
◼
►
other whatever like there's nothing
[TS]
◼
►
there's nothing to hang your hat on
[TS]
◼
►
mathematically that you can use to to
[TS]
◼
►
prove that those guys did the right
[TS]
◼
►
thing you basically just have to trust
[TS]
◼
►
them whereas if you have a
[TS]
◼
►
cryptographically secure assistant
[TS]
◼
►
whether you understand it or not uh
[TS]
◼
►
there should be enough smart people in
[TS]
◼
►
the world assuring you on both sides of
[TS]
◼
►
the coin that like look if you do this
[TS]
◼
►
you'll be able to tell whether your vote
[TS]
◼
►
was counted and I do get the wrong ansel
[TS]
◼
►
your note you know your vote wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
counted and the things required cheat on
[TS]
◼
►
this you know would be you know that
[TS]
◼
►
they can lay out the exact parameters
[TS]
◼
►
there's no there's no spy craft you
[TS]
◼
►
could do to corrupt the system in a way
[TS]
◼
►
that wouldn't be detectable except for
[TS]
◼
►
you know stealing secret keys or
[TS]
◼
►
something uh now just because I I I have
[TS]
◼
►
more trust in mathematics combined with
[TS]
◼
►
this remote trucks than people doing the
[TS]
◼
►
other things like they'd rather have the
[TS]
◼
►
comfort doesn't mean that this is that
[TS]
◼
►
these people all don't have points that
[TS]
◼
►
this is all well and good and you can
[TS]
◼
►
try to like and put it on a blackboard
[TS]
◼
►
and explain to people how it works and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff but the bottom line is if they
[TS]
◼
►
don't trust it it's not good because you
[TS]
◼
►
know you want a system that everybody
[TS]
◼
►
trusts whether people trust it is not
[TS]
◼
►
necessarily connected to whether it is
[TS]
◼
►
more or less trustworthy so I think
[TS]
◼
►
their their point on it being able to be
[TS]
◼
►
counted by candle light stands not so
[TS]
◼
►
much on the merits of the technology but
[TS]
◼
►
on the fact that most of the world
[TS]
◼
►
probably agrees with them and in the end
[TS]
◼
►
this is a system that everyone has to
[TS]
◼
►
agree is fair for things to work well so
[TS]
◼
►
if that's if that is unchangeable and
[TS]
◼
►
you cannot convince the world that
[TS]
◼
►
you're secure voting system actually is
[TS]
◼
►
secure and you cannot convince them that
[TS]
◼
►
you can show them how to secure it and
[TS]
◼
►
that it's more secure than other
[TS]
◼
►
alternatives it doesn't matter if it's
[TS]
◼
►
really more secure not all it matters is
[TS]
◼
►
what they think of course that's the
[TS]
◼
►
ultimate election hack the fact that it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't really matter what actually
[TS]
◼
►
happens in the election all that matters
[TS]
◼
►
is that everyone involved or almost
[TS]
◼
►
everyone involved agrees that it was
[TS]
◼
►
fair whether it was really fair not
[TS]
◼
►
almost immaterial if you were the best
[TS]
◼
►
way to cheat an election is to do it in
[TS]
◼
►
such a way that everyone agrees that the
[TS]
◼
►
so that's kind of depressing but but
[TS]
◼
►
anyway I think their point stands like I
[TS]
◼
►
said I think any decent
[TS]
◼
►
cryptographically secure voting system
[TS]
◼
►
will also and must also include a paper
[TS]
◼
►
trail and all the things that to be able
[TS]
◼
►
to be hand countered and if the security
[TS]
◼
►
is just extra on top of it oh and I also
[TS]
◼
►
want to get back to one of the piece in
[TS]
◼
►
the feedback of like the only thing you
[TS]
◼
►
get from an electronic auditable roading
[TS]
◼
►
record is that it's uh it's faster
[TS]
◼
►
depart to tabulate the results that is
[TS]
◼
►
not one of the goals of these systems or
[TS]
◼
►
shouldn't be ready shortly speed it
[TS]
◼
►
should be accuracy or not just accuracy
[TS]
◼
►
but like it's an extra level
[TS]
◼
►
verification like you've got all the
[TS]
◼
►
same old verification with pieces of
[TS]
◼
►
paper and people can hand recount them
[TS]
◼
►
do a lot stuff but also this is extra
[TS]
◼
►
layer of security on top of that that
[TS]
◼
►
gives you that you didn't have before
[TS]
◼
►
like for example before you didn't have
[TS]
◼
►
the ability to like go to a website and
[TS]
◼
►
enter in some secret code that you got
[TS]
◼
►
in your little paper receipt and find
[TS]
◼
►
out whether your vote was counted or not
[TS]
◼
►
you may not understand that you may
[TS]
◼
►
think it's all a lie and it's totally
[TS]
◼
►
fabricated and not given you know any
[TS]
◼
►
credence whatsoever that's fine because
[TS]
◼
►
it's just on top of the existing thing
[TS]
◼
►
that you do trust but in general I think
[TS]
◼
►
you know that that's the case where your
[TS]
◼
►
your disbelief the sort of Luddite
[TS]
◼
►
disbelief that electronic scan cannot
[TS]
◼
►
possibly add in the extra security
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't mean that it doesn't actually
[TS]
◼
►
add extra security and make it more
[TS]
◼
►
difficult to to corrupt and stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that so I think that's like a bonus type
[TS]
◼
►
system yeah I think I basically combine
[TS]
◼
►
the two whether whether you know people
[TS]
◼
►
understanding it and having the paper
[TS]
◼
►
trail or two separate things for one
[TS]
◼
►
they kind of meld into each other uh
[TS]
◼
►
yeah III don't want to call people
[TS]
◼
►
luddites because they don't trust
[TS]
◼
►
electronic voting because if you look at
[TS]
◼
►
the history of electronic voting you
[TS]
◼
►
know like everyone who wrote in
[TS]
◼
►
including you know everything's happened
[TS]
◼
►
in the US we've just done it so terribly
[TS]
◼
►
that how could it not have a bad
[TS]
◼
►
reputation I mean it's got a deserve a
[TS]
◼
►
terrible reputation and especially
[TS]
◼
►
people who don't understand it all they
[TS]
◼
►
know is every time someone tries to
[TS]
◼
►
introduce electronic voting it ends up
[TS]
◼
►
being a giant disaster therefore we
[TS]
◼
►
should never do anything electronically
[TS]
◼
►
and that's it I was also trying to think
[TS]
◼
►
of other things in the world that
[TS]
◼
►
average person doesn't understand but
[TS]
◼
►
less people trust it's difficult to come
[TS]
◼
►
with straight through analogies but
[TS]
◼
►
there are plenty of them I the problem
[TS]
◼
►
is they're not exactly the same thing
[TS]
◼
►
like people understand how airplanes fly
[TS]
◼
►
but they have faith that they'll be in
[TS]
◼
►
the air and that you know something like
[TS]
◼
►
they have really have no idea like her
[TS]
◼
►
you know and people don't understand how
[TS]
◼
►
government works in general and how you
[TS]
◼
►
know just how the machinery of
[TS]
◼
►
government works in actuality but they
[TS]
◼
►
trust that all this law was passed and I
[TS]
◼
►
trust it was passed in a way that didn't
[TS]
◼
►
involve just a bunch of guys in the back
[TS]
◼
►
room chomping cigars and saying let's do
[TS]
◼
►
this you know there are many things in
[TS]
◼
►
the world that people don't understand
[TS]
◼
►
that nevertheless put their trust in so
[TS]
◼
►
I'm not of the opinion that it would be
[TS]
◼
►
impossible to get human beings to trust
[TS]
◼
►
an end an auditable cryptographically
[TS]
◼
►
secure electronic voting system I'm of
[TS]
◼
►
the opinion that it would be possible to
[TS]
◼
►
it maybe you have to wait for a couple
[TS]
◼
►
generations people die off and gradually
[TS]
◼
►
introduce it and actually do it right
[TS]
◼
►
for once and stuff like that but it
[TS]
◼
►
could happen and I think the people who
[TS]
◼
►
are against it would eventually die off
[TS]
◼
►
and everyone else would think it's crazy
[TS]
◼
►
to do it in any other way I don't think
[TS]
◼
►
voting is unlike every other part of the
[TS]
◼
►
human condition where it's like well
[TS]
◼
►
everything else we can advance
[TS]
◼
►
technology and but voting we have to do
[TS]
◼
►
with rocks until the end of my voting is
[TS]
◼
►
different in some fundamental way than
[TS]
◼
►
anything else human beings do right
[TS]
◼
►
again out it cannot be improved upon
[TS]
◼
►
with modern technology it must be the
[TS]
◼
►
same that it was you know right hundreds
[TS]
◼
►
and hundreds and hundreds of years ago
[TS]
◼
►
and there are many ways you can shoot
[TS]
◼
►
down any analogy flying a plane is not
[TS]
◼
►
like an election don't you understand
[TS]
◼
►
electron is how we govern ourselves it's
[TS]
◼
►
like meta system it's so important ball
[TS]
◼
►
blah but there is you know there's
[TS]
◼
►
nothing in in life that is so special
[TS]
◼
►
that technology cannot touch it ever and
[TS]
◼
►
it almost sounds like the intro TV show
[TS]
◼
►
no nothing is so perfect that it yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know it's it's kind of similar
[TS]
◼
►
thing but anyway uh like I said I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
I'm not arguing against paper trails I
[TS]
◼
►
think they have to be there and I think
[TS]
◼
►
there's no reason they shouldn't be but
[TS]
◼
►
I am arguing for electronic voting
[TS]
◼
►
systems done right and done right means
[TS]
◼
►
you have all of the benefits of the
[TS]
◼
►
existing system plus many extra benefits
[TS]
◼
►
on top of that that people may not care
[TS]
◼
►
about or anything but as long as the
[TS]
◼
►
superset of the existing security
[TS]
◼
►
mechanisms then so what people can
[TS]
◼
►
pretend that's all magic and BS and it
[TS]
◼
►
is equally secure to the best you know
[TS]
◼
►
paper system with
[TS]
◼
►
the hand recounts in all its stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
all right that went a little long I
[TS]
◼
►
think I was rambling there but I think
[TS]
◼
►
it's alright sponsor sure hover com
[TS]
◼
►
simplified domain management you've
[TS]
◼
►
probably registered a domain from a
[TS]
◼
►
company that they tried upsell you on
[TS]
◼
►
stuff you go there you register domain
[TS]
◼
►
name and the next thing you know you've
[TS]
◼
►
signed up for it for five years and
[TS]
◼
►
you've bought all kinds of additional
[TS]
◼
►
you know back ordering things and stuff
[TS]
◼
►
you didn't want or even if you are smart
[TS]
◼
►
and savvy enough to disable all of those
[TS]
◼
►
things as you're going through the
[TS]
◼
►
checkout process they're still there and
[TS]
◼
►
there's still kind of a nuisance well
[TS]
◼
►
hover com does not do that these guys
[TS]
◼
►
their goal is to provide you with a
[TS]
◼
►
straightforward minimal clean honest
[TS]
◼
►
process that makes it easy to go there
[TS]
◼
►
register the domain that you want and go
[TS]
◼
►
away that's what they do there's a
[TS]
◼
►
search box you type in the domain name
[TS]
◼
►
you want if it's available you register
[TS]
◼
►
it if it's not available they'll show
[TS]
◼
►
you some alternatives and that's it you
[TS]
◼
►
get out there's a checkbox do you want
[TS]
◼
►
to have the free who is privacy I
[TS]
◼
►
believe that checked then you can go
[TS]
◼
►
into your settings and make it so that
[TS]
◼
►
there's like a checkbox in there that
[TS]
◼
►
says that never never contact me you can
[TS]
◼
►
do that if you want i don't mind them
[TS]
◼
►
contacting me because they have some
[TS]
◼
►
pretty cool stuff like their domain
[TS]
◼
►
transfer valet service where if your
[TS]
◼
►
transfer your domain from another
[TS]
◼
►
registrar they'll do the entire thing
[TS]
◼
►
like a human being that works there for
[TS]
◼
►
free will do the whole process for you
[TS]
◼
►
they have email hosting if you wanted
[TS]
◼
►
they have built-in free dns which is
[TS]
◼
►
what i'm pretty much using for almost
[TS]
◼
►
everything now go check these guys out
[TS]
◼
►
hover com / dan sent me this will get
[TS]
◼
►
you ten percent off everything that you
[TS]
◼
►
do or you can just use the coupon code
[TS]
◼
►
dan sent me when you're buying something
[TS]
◼
►
like if you're an existing customer if
[TS]
◼
►
you're already there and you're
[TS]
◼
►
transferring more domains there's no
[TS]
◼
►
limit on how many times you can use that
[TS]
◼
►
and i actually use that myself for my
[TS]
◼
►
domain name registration problem my
[TS]
◼
►
addiction and you can go there hover com
[TS]
◼
►
such dance let me get ten percent
[TS]
◼
►
hopefully you liked the experience as
[TS]
◼
►
much as I do thanks very much to them
[TS]
◼
►
for making the show possible what you
[TS]
◼
►
got next John and before we move on one
[TS]
◼
►
point that a lot of these bits of
[TS]
◼
►
feedback oh I got a turned off all right
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of these bits of feedback about
[TS]
◼
►
voting kind of matter of factly state
[TS]
◼
►
that the way they're voting system works
[TS]
◼
►
in their country the voting system do
[TS]
◼
►
they like usually it that involves
[TS]
◼
►
government-issued ID right and from
[TS]
◼
►
coming from a u.s. perspective the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the world probably thinks we're crazy
[TS]
◼
►
but this just goes to show it like you
[TS]
◼
►
know and in the same way that I don't
[TS]
◼
►
think that the average person needs to
[TS]
◼
►
understand the math involved for a
[TS]
◼
►
cryptographic voting system to
[TS]
◼
►
eventually be considered secure people
[TS]
◼
►
and the rest of world don't think twice
[TS]
◼
►
about having government-issued ID and
[TS]
◼
►
having to show it at the polls to vote
[TS]
◼
►
whereas an America that is a very very
[TS]
◼
►
big issue and some of the same people is
[TS]
◼
►
that you know don't you understand it
[TS]
◼
►
has to be a paper ballot has to be hand
[TS]
◼
►
candid and of course you have your
[TS]
◼
►
government issue date I'm turn around
[TS]
◼
►
said don't you understand you can't
[TS]
◼
►
require government issued ID and say
[TS]
◼
►
well what how can you vote without a
[TS]
◼
►
government issue lady how do we even
[TS]
◼
►
know who's what it again you know
[TS]
◼
►
everyone has their personal hang-ups
[TS]
◼
►
culturally personally then not all of
[TS]
◼
►
them are based on logic so in the same
[TS]
◼
►
in the same way that I'm saying to these
[TS]
◼
►
people that owe you know you you know it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't need to be done with rocks when
[TS]
◼
►
that they would say to us you know you
[TS]
◼
►
have to have a government ID to vote how
[TS]
◼
►
can you vote without that it's just
[TS]
◼
►
stupid and I can't talk about this too
[TS]
◼
►
much without getting into politics or US
[TS]
◼
►
politics we just go show that the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the world is different like and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think most of the feedback even
[TS]
◼
►
acknowledge that they were just like let
[TS]
◼
►
me explain how it works in the civilized
[TS]
◼
►
world we use rocks and pieces of paper
[TS]
◼
►
and a government-issued ID it's like
[TS]
◼
►
that's not gonna fly in the US that's no
[TS]
◼
►
ah people are strange when you're a
[TS]
◼
►
stranger is that it yes that is the
[TS]
◼
►
correct Jim arson doors lyrics okay all
[TS]
◼
►
right so let's move on to the main topic
[TS]
◼
►
today and this could be short how many
[TS]
◼
►
more sponsors do we have we have two
[TS]
◼
►
more so we'll space them out alright so
[TS]
◼
►
don't let me go too long alright gotta
[TS]
◼
►
finish this topic is as teasing the last
[TS]
◼
►
show it's about using ARM processors all
[TS]
◼
►
caps a RM instead of Intel processors on
[TS]
◼
►
max right and it is spawned by this
[TS]
◼
►
business we guard
[TS]
◼
►
from that a week ago titled Apple said
[TS]
◼
►
to be exploring switch from Intel for
[TS]
◼
►
Mac that is bad headline because it is
[TS]
◼
►
awkward right here's a little synopsis
[TS]
◼
►
thing Apple exploring ways to replace
[TS]
◼
►
Intel processors in its Mac personal
[TS]
◼
►
computers with a version of the chip
[TS]
◼
►
technology uses in the iphone or ipad
[TS]
◼
►
according to people familiar with the
[TS]
◼
►
company's research people familiar with
[TS]
◼
►
Apple engineers have grown confident
[TS]
◼
►
that the chip designs used for its
[TS]
◼
►
mobile devices will one day be powerful
[TS]
◼
►
enough to run its desktops and laptops
[TS]
◼
►
said three people knowledgeable of with
[TS]
◼
►
knowledge of the work drank who has to
[TS]
◼
►
remain anonymous because the plans are
[TS]
◼
►
confidential alright so typically Fuzzle
[TS]
◼
►
esource thing and mostly gonna use as
[TS]
◼
►
articles a jumping-off point for a
[TS]
◼
►
discussion about this idea and i'm going
[TS]
◼
►
to give sort of a cliff notes background
[TS]
◼
►
on what i think are the important issues
[TS]
◼
►
behind this if you know anything about
[TS]
◼
►
cpu technology and none of this is going
[TS]
◼
►
to be new information and i apologize
[TS]
◼
►
but most of the time i do a show like
[TS]
◼
►
this i get positive feedback from the
[TS]
◼
►
people who may not be you know nerds in
[TS]
◼
►
this particular section of the topic so
[TS]
◼
►
if you're a tech nerd you can tune out
[TS]
◼
►
for a while and just wait till the end
[TS]
◼
►
when i get to some conclusions and but
[TS]
◼
►
if you're not i hope i will at least
[TS]
◼
►
teach you something in broad strokes
[TS]
◼
►
that you may not have known too much
[TS]
◼
►
about before alright so let's start with
[TS]
◼
►
the risk versus sisk you know those
[TS]
◼
►
stand for damn i do not remember i used
[TS]
◼
►
to know and back in college I there you
[TS]
◼
►
go you'll be one of those people I was
[TS]
◼
►
getting value out of the section that's
[TS]
◼
►
round all right so these are all caps
[TS]
◼
►
are is C and C is C rse is reduced
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set computing on complex
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set computing yeah you go
[TS]
◼
►
pulling stuff up all right no as you as
[TS]
◼
►
soon as you said the first and i
[TS]
◼
►
remembered second yeah this is one of
[TS]
◼
►
those i think it's pretty much like a
[TS]
◼
►
backronym where the the acronym Sisk
[TS]
◼
►
didn't invent didn't exist until the
[TS]
◼
►
acronym risk was invented someone can
[TS]
◼
►
send me reckons it out but it's kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like oh I have an idea and I've given
[TS]
◼
►
name and I'm also going to give a name
[TS]
◼
►
to your idea because my idea is better
[TS]
◼
►
than your idea and I without contrast
[TS]
◼
►
them and yours as complex as my
[TS]
◼
►
introduce anyway this was a hot debate I
[TS]
◼
►
know decade ago longer yeah it's a
[TS]
◼
►
couple other i would say longer because
[TS]
◼
►
i remember the well this came this is
[TS]
◼
►
the whole spark vs intel thing its like
[TS]
◼
►
the 90's yeah mid late nineties even
[TS]
◼
►
before that does there's a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
articles from ARS technica that are
[TS]
◼
►
great to look at this prism the show
[TS]
◼
►
notes one is called risk versus sisk the
[TS]
◼
►
post risk era by John Stokes from 1999
[TS]
◼
►
that's a really old one and there's also
[TS]
◼
►
risk versus Sisk in the mobile error
[TS]
◼
►
also by John Stokes in 2008 if you want
[TS]
◼
►
nerdier backgrounds on this stuff I
[TS]
◼
►
suggest reading those articles all right
[TS]
◼
►
but I'm going to give you the cliff
[TS]
◼
►
notes version so first let's start with
[TS]
◼
►
you know reduced instruction set
[TS]
◼
►
computing complex instructions I
[TS]
◼
►
computing what the heck is an
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set instructions that is
[TS]
◼
►
basically the list of things that you
[TS]
◼
►
can ask a processor to do like you build
[TS]
◼
►
this little piece of hardware and you
[TS]
◼
►
have to talk to it and what can you tell
[TS]
◼
►
it to do it is the API for the processor
[TS]
◼
►
using the parlance of our time yeah cuz
[TS]
◼
►
there's only you know what can you tell
[TS]
◼
►
a processor to do this limited set of
[TS]
◼
►
things you can tell it to do and you
[TS]
◼
►
have to define them can you it can you
[TS]
◼
►
tell the process of dad two numbers
[TS]
◼
►
together probably right so how do you do
[TS]
◼
►
that while you tell this instruction and
[TS]
◼
►
you put this number here in this number
[TS]
◼
►
that you know there's a list of things
[TS]
◼
►
that you can tell it to do did you ever
[TS]
◼
►
get assembly I sure did okay surely did
[TS]
◼
►
yes too much assembly so how it works is
[TS]
◼
►
that you know these days is source code
[TS]
◼
►
is compiled the machine code which is
[TS]
◼
►
like a list of instructions for the CPU
[TS]
◼
►
and the CPU reads those instructions
[TS]
◼
►
from memory and execute them right
[TS]
◼
►
machine code is a turd term you don't
[TS]
◼
►
hear thrown around too much today mostly
[TS]
◼
►
because not that relevant but what it
[TS]
◼
►
what it comes down to is just a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
numbers right it's going to read a bunch
[TS]
◼
►
of numbers from memory and it's going to
[TS]
◼
►
interpret them in a certain way that's
[TS]
◼
►
like oh when I see the number five that
[TS]
◼
►
means the add instruction and then the
[TS]
◼
►
next number is the one thing I'm adding
[TS]
◼
►
in the next number is the other thing
[TS]
◼
►
it's not really like that but that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's the idea ah almost nobody writes
[TS]
◼
►
machine code in the end these days uh
[TS]
◼
►
maybe people who would like me and
[TS]
◼
►
undergraduate course had to design their
[TS]
◼
►
own CPUs and then program with machine
[TS]
◼
►
code ended up writing machine code where
[TS]
◼
►
you just literally write a series of
[TS]
◼
►
numbers it is like the least human
[TS]
◼
►
friendly way to program I guess toggle
[TS]
◼
►
switches we worked so if you couldn't
[TS]
◼
►
even type the numbers in you had to do
[TS]
◼
►
them their binary representation with
[TS]
◼
►
toggle switches that would be worse but
[TS]
◼
►
no one does that right assembly which is
[TS]
◼
►
a term you may have heard assembly code
[TS]
◼
►
is kind of like a symbolic version a
[TS]
◼
►
machine code instead of having my number
[TS]
◼
►
five you decide to if you type a DD the
[TS]
◼
►
word ad we're going to tell us the ad
[TS]
◼
►
instructor so you don't have to remember
[TS]
◼
►
that the add instruction is number five
[TS]
◼
►
you just type in a DD and then the next
[TS]
◼
►
thing you type in a bunch of letters it
[TS]
◼
►
says where it's getting one number from
[TS]
◼
►
and you know whatever it's much nicer
[TS]
◼
►
for human beings to not have to type
[TS]
◼
►
just a series of numbers they want words
[TS]
◼
►
or and so they just basically map the
[TS]
◼
►
words two numbers you take that assembly
[TS]
◼
►
code you run it through an assembler it
[TS]
◼
►
reads the little words it converts them
[TS]
◼
►
into the actual numbers and then the
[TS]
◼
►
Machine execute those numbers and those
[TS]
◼
►
little words or those numbers that's
[TS]
◼
►
your instruction set about you've got an
[TS]
◼
►
add obstruction or subtract instruction
[TS]
◼
►
and compare instructional also the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
they have numbers assigned to them you
[TS]
◼
►
write an assembly code the CPU is not
[TS]
◼
►
executing assembly code your assemblers
[TS]
◼
►
looking at the assembly code converting
[TS]
◼
►
them pretty much one to one into their
[TS]
◼
►
equivalent numbers putting them into
[TS]
◼
►
memory than getting the CPU to slurp
[TS]
◼
►
those instructions out of memory and
[TS]
◼
►
then go through each one execute it and
[TS]
◼
►
so and so forth right now people used to
[TS]
◼
►
write programs in assembly a lot more
[TS]
◼
►
than they do today now almost no one was
[TS]
◼
►
writing a machine code in our lifetimes
[TS]
◼
►
button assembly you know people used to
[TS]
◼
►
write programs that huge parts of the
[TS]
◼
►
original mac operating system were
[TS]
◼
►
written in assembly not just the drivers
[TS]
◼
►
or you know anything you would think
[TS]
◼
►
it's like low-level code but just like
[TS]
◼
►
huge parts of the actual operating is
[TS]
◼
►
like parts of the mac toolbox that did
[TS]
◼
►
the GUI like buttons and dialogues and
[TS]
◼
►
menus big parts of that were in an
[TS]
◼
►
assembly a lot of the reason they're
[TS]
◼
►
written assembly is because assembly is
[TS]
◼
►
like you know that's you talking almost
[TS]
◼
►
directly to the cpu granted you're
[TS]
◼
►
writing in a symbolic language thick is
[TS]
◼
►
converted into numbers but it's very
[TS]
◼
►
close to one to one correspondence is
[TS]
◼
►
what's going on inside the CPU so if you
[TS]
◼
►
want to wring every last piece of
[TS]
◼
►
performance out soon as I look CPU I
[TS]
◼
►
gotta tell you do this then you're going
[TS]
◼
►
you're going to put the result there and
[TS]
◼
►
the next instructor not going to take
[TS]
◼
►
that result from there and put it over
[TS]
◼
►
here like very low level direct you know
[TS]
◼
►
not not a big layer of abstraction
[TS]
◼
►
between you and telling the CPU what to
[TS]
◼
►
do and assembly code can be very small
[TS]
◼
►
and very clever and do interesting
[TS]
◼
►
things so and memory was very tight back
[TS]
◼
►
then so large parts of the back-up rings
[TS]
◼
►
is written in assembly and if you're
[TS]
◼
►
writing anything in assembly what you
[TS]
◼
►
want is a a processor that has lots of
[TS]
◼
►
powerful instructions for assembly right
[TS]
◼
►
you wanted to be able to write an
[TS]
◼
►
instruction to this cpu where do
[TS]
◼
►
something useful for you all right so
[TS]
◼
►
here's an example of what later became
[TS]
◼
►
known as complex instruction set
[TS]
◼
►
computer single command that says take a
[TS]
◼
►
piece of memory from location a and move
[TS]
◼
►
that piece of memory into a different
[TS]
◼
►
place in memory location B that seems
[TS]
◼
►
like the simplest possible instruction
[TS]
◼
►
you can do but it's not it's actually
[TS]
◼
►
pretty complicated because you were
[TS]
◼
►
telling the CPU go into Ram fine address
[TS]
◼
►
57 take the stuff that's there take a
[TS]
◼
►
bite take a word dick a bubble or take
[TS]
◼
►
some piece of memory and then move it to
[TS]
◼
►
a different place in memory address 122
[TS]
◼
►
right that is actually relatively
[TS]
◼
►
complicated because there's no way you
[TS]
◼
►
know it's it has to you have to the CPU
[TS]
◼
►
have to pull the thing out of memory
[TS]
◼
►
hold it for a second and then stick it
[TS]
◼
►
into another place but if you were
[TS]
◼
►
writing if you were had to write
[TS]
◼
►
assembly you would want to be able to
[TS]
◼
►
write that you wouldn't want to have to
[TS]
◼
►
write take the thing that's in memory
[TS]
◼
►
location 57 pull it into the CPU take it
[TS]
◼
►
out of the CPU and stick it into memory
[TS]
◼
►
location 256 you just want to say just
[TS]
◼
►
move it from 56 to 27 or whatever you
[TS]
◼
►
just one instruction right that is an
[TS]
◼
►
example of a complex instruction set it
[TS]
◼
►
it's you can imagine the the individual
[TS]
◼
►
steps that you want to do but you don't
[TS]
◼
►
want to have to write those individual
[TS]
◼
►
step you just want to sell cheap cell is
[TS]
◼
►
super you look let's move this thing
[TS]
◼
►
from one place to the other because if
[TS]
◼
►
you didn't you have to write three
[TS]
◼
►
instructions every time you just want it
[TS]
◼
►
to move something from one thing it so
[TS]
◼
►
the race back then was to make CPUs that
[TS]
◼
►
had really fancy instructions so that if
[TS]
◼
►
you're writing an assembler or even if
[TS]
◼
►
you're writing a compiler or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
you're like I don't need to handhold the
[TS]
◼
►
here's what I want you to do you figure
[TS]
◼
►
out how to do it I don't care how you do
[TS]
◼
►
it but I have a very powerful
[TS]
◼
►
complicated instruction and you do that
[TS]
◼
►
the way you want it that's complex
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set computing because that
[TS]
◼
►
they all the CPU makers are trying to
[TS]
◼
►
make you know my CPU has an instruction
[TS]
◼
►
and lets you you know compared to
[TS]
◼
►
strings to see whether they're equal
[TS]
◼
►
just making this up but like like wow I
[TS]
◼
►
don't even have to go through the
[TS]
◼
►
individual steps of that the CPU will
[TS]
◼
►
just do it itself that's a great CPU
[TS]
◼
►
it's powerful it's awesome right who
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't like that John right alright so
[TS]
◼
►
here's here this kind of thing falls
[TS]
◼
►
down and I'm going to go into a crazy
[TS]
◼
►
analogy that's not even remotely close
[TS]
◼
►
to being correct but hopefully give you
[TS]
◼
►
just what's going on right so I'm going
[TS]
◼
►
to say that this the complex instruction
[TS]
◼
►
set computing having very powerful
[TS]
◼
►
instructions I can tell the computer to
[TS]
◼
►
do this complicated thing is kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like a sewing machine and there's a
[TS]
◼
►
particular sewing machine animated gift
[TS]
◼
►
that I tried to find on the web I found
[TS]
◼
►
like eight thousand versions of it I put
[TS]
◼
►
one in the chat room here I have you
[TS]
◼
►
seen this one you're looking at chat
[TS]
◼
►
room I am looking let me see oh yeah
[TS]
◼
►
this is very essence old one that's
[TS]
◼
►
great there's a glier ones too but for
[TS]
◼
►
people who don't know how sewing
[TS]
◼
►
machines work or have never used a
[TS]
◼
►
sewing machine take a look of his
[TS]
◼
►
animation you see all seen sewing
[TS]
◼
►
machines it's like a big machine with
[TS]
◼
►
like a needle and you put fabric down on
[TS]
◼
►
a table and you slide it into needle
[TS]
◼
►
needles up and down really fast up and
[TS]
◼
►
down up and down up and down you feed
[TS]
◼
►
the material through it and so does
[TS]
◼
►
things together this animation shows you
[TS]
◼
►
what's actually going on it also
[TS]
◼
►
explains the mystery of the bobbin yeah
[TS]
◼
►
like when the needle goes down in a song
[TS]
◼
►
machine it's not just just punching a
[TS]
◼
►
string through and pulling it back up
[TS]
◼
►
because that wouldn't work we'll just
[TS]
◼
►
make a series of holes all right there's
[TS]
◼
►
a thread threaded through the needle and
[TS]
◼
►
when it goes down through the fabric
[TS]
◼
►
into the table below it is a little
[TS]
◼
►
bobbin that basically takes some thread
[TS]
◼
►
that's on the bobbin and weave it
[TS]
◼
►
through the thread that came down with
[TS]
◼
►
the needle and you get stitches so if
[TS]
◼
►
you stare at this gif animation long
[TS]
◼
►
enough you should get an idea of like
[TS]
◼
►
the basics of how a sewing machine works
[TS]
◼
►
and it's actually you see what it's
[TS]
◼
►
doing it's like you know if a human
[TS]
◼
►
being was doing it they wouldn't
[TS]
◼
►
probably do it in this exactly this way
[TS]
◼
►
but you end up getting a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
interlocked stitches with one set of
[TS]
◼
►
thread going down the needle and the
[TS]
◼
►
other set of thread on the bobbin and
[TS]
◼
►
the interlock with each other and so two
[TS]
◼
►
pieces of fabric together and so this is
[TS]
◼
►
a pretty ingenious machine I also put in
[TS]
◼
►
two links to a very old show called the
[TS]
◼
►
life of machines oh yeah which was a
[TS]
◼
►
british show most notable to my young
[TS]
◼
►
American self as the program where i
[TS]
◼
►
learned what sticky tape is as opposed
[TS]
◼
►
to non sticky tape i guess that's what
[TS]
◼
►
they call scotch tape and Scotch is the
[TS]
◼
►
name brand anyway put a link to that in
[TS]
◼
►
the show notes it's like The Secret Life
[TS]
◼
►
machine is a sewing machine part 1 and
[TS]
◼
►
part 2 I actually encourage you to watch
[TS]
◼
►
these things yes they look like they're
[TS]
◼
►
on terrible video from the 70s or 80s
[TS]
◼
►
and the people have British accents and
[TS]
◼
►
they're blurry but really watch it and I
[TS]
◼
►
think by the end of watching these
[TS]
◼
►
programs unlike by the end of this
[TS]
◼
►
podcast you will actually understand how
[TS]
◼
►
sewing machines work and I think it's
[TS]
◼
►
important because you can see you know
[TS]
◼
►
how how they figured out how to do this
[TS]
◼
►
how to take this very complex series of
[TS]
◼
►
motions having one piece of thread
[TS]
◼
►
threaded through a hole in fabric and
[TS]
◼
►
take another piece of thread and loop it
[TS]
◼
►
through that and then come back out how
[TS]
◼
►
can you do that like without having a
[TS]
◼
►
human being threading things through a
[TS]
◼
►
little hole and guiding it through and
[TS]
◼
►
the Machine they came up with to do it
[TS]
◼
►
looks almost nothing like it would look
[TS]
◼
►
like if your hands did it but it it is
[TS]
◼
►
you know basically the bobbin is being
[TS]
◼
►
passed through not literally but you
[TS]
◼
►
know effectively the threat on the
[TS]
◼
►
bobbin is being passed through a loop
[TS]
◼
►
brought down by the other needle and
[TS]
◼
►
it's quite an interesting little machine
[TS]
◼
►
right this is very close to
[TS]
◼
►
philosophically what Sisk is like like
[TS]
◼
►
if you had to explain someone how to sew
[TS]
◼
►
two things together uh with a particular
[TS]
◼
►
locking stitch that holds two pieces of
[TS]
◼
►
fabric together you can do it but that's
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of steps and you'll be like
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't it be better if I could just
[TS]
◼
►
sort of feed a piece of fabric through a
[TS]
◼
►
machine I say it machine look just do
[TS]
◼
►
that stitch thing I don't wanna have to
[TS]
◼
►
tell you all the individual steps so it
[TS]
◼
►
basically comes down to is you gotta
[TS]
◼
►
punch needle through and then something
[TS]
◼
►
grabs little thing and then you gotta
[TS]
◼
►
have a little bobbin it tucks its thread
[TS]
◼
►
through there but I don't have typed I
[TS]
◼
►
just want to have instruction called
[TS]
◼
►
stitch and I hit a pedal on the floor
[TS]
◼
►
anything goes stitch and I'm I just hold
[TS]
◼
►
down that pedal go stitch stitch stitch
[TS]
◼
►
stitch stage so I can feed the fabric
[TS]
◼
►
through and I've made a sewing machine
[TS]
◼
►
is awesome sisk processors were like
[TS]
◼
►
sewing machines and the cooler steps
[TS]
◼
►
they could do the more interesting
[TS]
◼
►
stitches that they could do the more
[TS]
◼
►
powerful those CPUs were but like a
[TS]
◼
►
sewing machine like there's a limit on
[TS]
◼
►
how fast the sewing machine can do what
[TS]
◼
►
it does if you stare at that animation
[TS]
◼
►
you're like okay how fast can this
[TS]
◼
►
animation go can I do like five
[TS]
◼
►
just a second ten stitches a second
[TS]
◼
►
maybe tonight of 20 maybe but now you
[TS]
◼
►
know my 20 stitches a second that's
[TS]
◼
►
pretty darn fast can you make a machine
[TS]
◼
►
that performs a series of complicated
[TS]
◼
►
moves that best can I do 200,000
[TS]
◼
►
stitches a second probably not someone
[TS]
◼
►
someone from the industrial sewing
[TS]
◼
►
machine world will send me some feedback
[TS]
◼
►
on this show and tell me how fast the
[TS]
◼
►
fastest sewing machine in the world can
[TS]
◼
►
go go but like at a certain point
[TS]
◼
►
pressing the pedal to do one stitch and
[TS]
◼
►
it's like you told me to do one stitch
[TS]
◼
►
and I got into this series of 27 really
[TS]
◼
►
complicated steps and the steps depend
[TS]
◼
►
on each other the kind of interlocked
[TS]
◼
►
and you know you get into issues of like
[TS]
◼
►
physics of things hurtling past each
[TS]
◼
►
other and you can't thread this thing
[TS]
◼
►
through until the needle comes down but
[TS]
◼
►
you got to make sure the needle is all
[TS]
◼
►
the way down before you grab it then you
[TS]
◼
►
but you have to start and stop a piece
[TS]
◼
►
of machinery from moving it's there is a
[TS]
◼
►
limit how fast a sewing machine can
[TS]
◼
►
operate compare that limit of how fast
[TS]
◼
►
can I make this little sewing machine
[TS]
◼
►
thing go compare that limit to how fast
[TS]
◼
►
an electric motor can spin just plain
[TS]
◼
►
old straight barrel electric motor a
[TS]
◼
►
sewing machine you know a thousand rpm
[TS]
◼
►
100 rpm and you know stitches per minute
[TS]
◼
►
rotations from it or whatever how many
[TS]
◼
►
stitches can you make per second doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
come close to an electric motor electric
[TS]
◼
►
motor can do tens of thousands of
[TS]
◼
►
rotations per minute a electric motor
[TS]
◼
►
can spend very very fast you just you
[TS]
◼
►
know it you put it in some really good
[TS]
◼
►
ball bearings you have some magnets in a
[TS]
◼
►
coil of wire and electricity maybe you
[TS]
◼
►
even magnetically levitates spindles so
[TS]
◼
►
there's no friction except for air that
[TS]
◼
►
you could suck the air out of it to make
[TS]
◼
►
it a vacuum you know you can make
[TS]
◼
►
electric motor spin really fast because
[TS]
◼
►
all does is spin there's no oscillating
[TS]
◼
►
parts there's no thread going through a
[TS]
◼
►
piece of fabric and one piece of thread
[TS]
◼
►
being shoved through a nose but it's
[TS]
◼
►
just spinning that's all does it rotates
[TS]
◼
►
around again and again and you can do
[TS]
◼
►
that really really really fast and if
[TS]
◼
►
you want to make that luxury motor go
[TS]
◼
►
really fast you know right where you
[TS]
◼
►
have to concentrate what are the things
[TS]
◼
►
stopping me from going too fast friction
[TS]
◼
►
uh that the force inside of the thing
[TS]
◼
►
I'm making it spin apart if it goes too
[TS]
◼
►
fast you know that isn't the centripetal
[TS]
◼
►
force on the outsides of the piece of
[TS]
◼
►
metal causing to disintegrate but those
[TS]
◼
►
limits are way higher than the limits of
[TS]
◼
►
a sewing machine if you had a contest
[TS]
◼
►
between the best engineers in the world
[TS]
◼
►
how fast can you make a sewing machine
[TS]
◼
►
go versus how fast can you make an
[TS]
◼
►
the electric motor guys would destroy
[TS]
◼
►
the sewing machine and sew the risk
[TS]
◼
►
philosophy was that they figured this
[TS]
◼
►
out you know they said all right we're
[TS]
◼
►
making these awesome cpu's with these
[TS]
◼
►
really complicated instructions but geez
[TS]
◼
►
every time we try to make these things
[TS]
◼
►
go faster like how fast can we make that
[TS]
◼
►
instruction to do some complicated
[TS]
◼
►
operation I guess of all these steps
[TS]
◼
►
involved and they're all interlocked
[TS]
◼
►
with each other and this limit how fast
[TS]
◼
►
I can go with that what if we make the
[TS]
◼
►
CPU equivalent of that electric motor
[TS]
◼
►
where what it does is really stupid and
[TS]
◼
►
simple but we can do it really really
[TS]
◼
►
fast uh and so that's that's a little
[TS]
◼
►
definition of risk here from the the
[TS]
◼
►
Wikipedia article CPU design strategy
[TS]
◼
►
based on the inside that simplified as
[TS]
◼
►
opposed to complex instructions can
[TS]
◼
►
provide higher performance this
[TS]
◼
►
simplicity enables much faster execution
[TS]
◼
►
of each instruction so an example of a
[TS]
◼
►
RISC architecture is the ARM
[TS]
◼
►
architecture it's a emergency for acorn
[TS]
◼
►
risc machines i believe and i forget
[TS]
◼
►
what they we went through a
[TS]
◼
►
senate-passed show I'm not gonna look it
[TS]
◼
►
up again there's only the second we have
[TS]
◼
►
feedback about if any way is a risk
[TS]
◼
►
machine and they use called like load
[TS]
◼
►
store architectures and the reason load
[TS]
◼
►
store architecture comes up is because
[TS]
◼
►
given that complex instruction operation
[TS]
◼
►
from before take a piece of memory from
[TS]
◼
►
location 57 and move it to 128 on the
[TS]
◼
►
risc cpu that would be read the location
[TS]
◼
►
57 into register one right location
[TS]
◼
►
right register one out into location in
[TS]
◼
►
256 so it would be two operations
[TS]
◼
►
instead of one I may have gotten that
[TS]
◼
►
wrong with the details so basically you
[TS]
◼
►
can take any complicated operation and
[TS]
◼
►
decompose it into simpler operations so
[TS]
◼
►
the move from one place member to
[TS]
◼
►
another it's going to have to go through
[TS]
◼
►
the CPU anyway there is no instruction
[TS]
◼
►
that says move it from the settle
[TS]
◼
►
occasion the other one you have to issue
[TS]
◼
►
the two taken from here put it to their
[TS]
◼
►
take a rear porter there and that seems
[TS]
◼
►
like a loss like wasn't it much better
[TS]
◼
►
when you could just tell it to move from
[TS]
◼
►
one place to the other but in actuality
[TS]
◼
►
because those those risk instructions
[TS]
◼
►
are so simple you can make them go much
[TS]
◼
►
faster and you can interleave them with
[TS]
◼
►
each other and duels all sorts of other
[TS]
◼
►
things because the instructions
[TS]
◼
►
themselves are small and so everything
[TS]
◼
►
about risk machines was designed to be
[TS]
◼
►
more like the electric motor and less
[TS]
◼
►
like the sewing machine they
[TS]
◼
►
won't have any special hardware special
[TS]
◼
►
registers that only serve a single
[TS]
◼
►
purpose when you divide two numbers the
[TS]
◼
►
result always goes in this register they
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to have a big very uniform
[TS]
◼
►
register file with lots of what they
[TS]
◼
►
call general purpose registers we're
[TS]
◼
►
like when you divide two numbers the
[TS]
◼
►
result doesn't always have to go into
[TS]
◼
►
this register it can go in any of the
[TS]
◼
►
registers in fact all the registers the
[TS]
◼
►
same and we have a bunch of them because
[TS]
◼
►
there's going to be a bunch of these
[TS]
◼
►
little tiny instructions and flight at
[TS]
◼
►
once and maybe we can put more than
[TS]
◼
►
parallel and intro leave them with each
[TS]
◼
►
other we just want to make it regular
[TS]
◼
►
and uniform they did stuff like uh you
[TS]
◼
►
know either discouraging or outright
[TS]
◼
►
forbidding unaligned memory access you
[TS]
◼
►
know old machines would be like we can
[TS]
◼
►
read memory anywhere you don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
start from a particular location you
[TS]
◼
►
just tell me you can read you a bite at
[TS]
◼
►
a time from anywhere in memory and then
[TS]
◼
►
risk machines are more like now you can
[TS]
◼
►
only do a line memory access you have to
[TS]
◼
►
start on on a you know a multiple of 32
[TS]
◼
►
bits or multiple 16 bits or something
[TS]
◼
►
some of the trunk like that if that's
[TS]
◼
►
inconvenient for you tough luck take up
[TS]
◼
►
the bigger piece bring it into the CPU
[TS]
◼
►
chop it up how you want uh and it's
[TS]
◼
►
basically you know making it much much
[TS]
◼
►
less pleasant to program an assembly
[TS]
◼
►
language because you're getting a bit
[TS]
◼
►
much dumber simpler machine that has
[TS]
◼
►
much more limitations and so many ones
[TS]
◼
►
into assembly programming be like I
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to program a risc cpu I got
[TS]
◼
►
to tell it how to do everything and have
[TS]
◼
►
instructions i wanted to aren't even
[TS]
◼
►
there I can't even pull a byte of memory
[TS]
◼
►
from here I gotta pull like 32 bits of
[TS]
◼
►
memory and mask it to get the bytes I
[TS]
◼
►
want and it's just this terrible right
[TS]
◼
►
uh that's not what I was designed for it
[TS]
◼
►
was designed for an age where compilers
[TS]
◼
►
right that for you and optimize it for
[TS]
◼
►
you purely because like the electric
[TS]
◼
►
motor they could spin a risc cpu really
[TS]
◼
►
really fast and in CPU world spinning
[TS]
◼
►
really fast is the clock speed it's
[TS]
◼
►
megahertz how many instructions per
[TS]
◼
►
second or how many cycles per second can
[TS]
◼
►
can happen oh the other thing that had
[TS]
◼
►
done these on risky p uses they would
[TS]
◼
►
try to make almost every single
[TS]
◼
►
instruction executes in a single clock
[TS]
◼
►
not everyone because this you know
[TS]
◼
►
complicated division instructions and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff like that but they would want they
[TS]
◼
►
would not want to have an instruction
[TS]
◼
►
like a one sis cpus where it's some big
[TS]
◼
►
complicated instruction like the song
[TS]
◼
►
machine it takes 17 cycles to execute
[TS]
◼
►
you know adding two numbers here they
[TS]
◼
►
wanted all their instructions to be so
[TS]
◼
►
simple that every single one of them
[TS]
◼
►
executed in a single cycle except for
[TS]
◼
►
maybe a couple of outliers so again the
[TS]
◼
►
entire instruction set the entire CPU
[TS]
◼
►
architecture was designed to make the
[TS]
◼
►
CPU go fast and not to make assembly
[TS]
◼
►
programmers like you
[TS]
◼
►
ye're and and or you know anything like
[TS]
◼
►
that they've expected a compiler to spit
[TS]
◼
►
out this stuff all right let me see what
[TS]
◼
►
up man these are there's some good rants
[TS]
◼
►
for me today yeah I'm really revisiting
[TS]
◼
►
old territory all right let's do the
[TS]
◼
►
second sponsor lynda.com online learning
[TS]
◼
►
company these guys have more than 77,000
[TS]
◼
►
video tutorials i call them screencasts
[TS]
◼
►
they call video tutorials they're gonna
[TS]
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have to they're you know that's their
[TS]
◼
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thing they know what the call they teach
[TS]
◼
►
you stuff they teach you everything from
[TS]
◼
►
design photography business programming
[TS]
◼
►
a you name it audio and video stuff even
[TS]
◼
►
have 3d animation stuff in there they're
[TS]
◼
►
adding new courses all the time all the
[TS]
◼
►
time and the way this thing works is you
[TS]
◼
►
get a membership and then you get access
[TS]
◼
►
to everything that's in there so that
[TS]
◼
►
you can teach yourself stop from experts
[TS]
◼
►
they have experts who are working in the
[TS]
◼
►
industry with real-world experience
[TS]
◼
►
creating these things teaching these
[TS]
◼
►
things and selling them there and it's
[TS]
◼
►
really really cool I love learning with
[TS]
◼
►
screencast and of course I mean I'm
[TS]
◼
►
probably biased because I've made
[TS]
◼
►
screencast before I used to make a
[TS]
◼
►
living doing screencast but I love this
[TS]
◼
►
stuff it's over on lynda.com that
[TS]
◼
►
spelled ly n da lynda.com membership
[TS]
◼
►
starts at 25 bucks a month but you get
[TS]
◼
►
unlimited 24 by 7 access to the best
[TS]
◼
►
videos out there they made a special URL
[TS]
◼
►
you can visit linda.com / 5 by 5 and if
[TS]
◼
►
you go there you'll get seven days for
[TS]
◼
►
free access to everything seven days
[TS]
◼
►
free and you'll support the show you'll
[TS]
◼
►
make John Happ you'll make me happy
[TS]
◼
►
Linda calm / 5 / 5 check them out so we
[TS]
◼
►
got some numbers on actual risk and CPUs
[TS]
◼
►
in terms of number of registers and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff just to reinforce the point about
[TS]
◼
►
the register whether they call the
[TS]
◼
►
register file how many differenter says
[TS]
◼
►
you have so the PowerPC cpu used to be
[TS]
◼
►
in max that's also a risc cpu and like i
[TS]
◼
►
said risks abused and have way more
[TS]
◼
►
registers and they're all kind of you
[TS]
◼
►
know no special purpose registers or few
[TS]
◼
►
special purpose or mostly generate lots
[TS]
◼
►
of general-purpose registers so power
[TS]
◼
►
busy had 32 general purpose registers
[TS]
◼
►
and 32 floating point registers and and
[TS]
◼
►
compared to x86 intel chips back when
[TS]
◼
►
they were 16 bit x86 chips
[TS]
◼
►
had six registers which were kind of
[TS]
◼
►
sort of dedicated special purpose not
[TS]
◼
►
all them are really general sort of like
[TS]
◼
►
I said you know when you did a divided
[TS]
◼
►
instruction the result always had to go
[TS]
◼
►
in a particular register and stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that plus a couple of other things for
[TS]
◼
►
like stack pointers and stuff 32-bit x86
[TS]
◼
►
had six general purpose registers plus
[TS]
◼
►
some extended versions of the you know
[TS]
◼
►
stack pointer registers and stuff 64-bit
[TS]
◼
►
they added a few more you got 14 general
[TS]
◼
►
purpose registers plus the other ones
[TS]
◼
►
and so you see like x86 has been trying
[TS]
◼
►
to add more registers but PowerPC from
[TS]
◼
►
the day was born had this you know huge
[TS]
◼
►
number registered more registers than
[TS]
◼
►
you would expect the human being to keep
[TS]
◼
►
track of because if you're writing
[TS]
◼
►
assembling you got to keep track of 32
[TS]
◼
►
registers like I will tell that i put in
[TS]
◼
►
register 17 i want to add these two
[TS]
◼
►
numbers together was that in register 32
[TS]
◼
►
or 57 it's just you can imagine writing
[TS]
◼
►
so maybe you can remember adding
[TS]
◼
►
assembly by hand and like it's hard to
[TS]
◼
►
keep track of these things that they're
[TS]
◼
►
all just called r 1 r 7 r 15 are three
[TS]
◼
►
and they're all the same and how can you
[TS]
◼
►
keep track of where anything is like
[TS]
◼
►
it's totally made for a machine because
[TS]
◼
►
the machine say okay I've got 32
[TS]
◼
►
registers to work with and I can just
[TS]
◼
►
keep track of them and have sort of a
[TS]
◼
►
register allocation algorithm I figure
[TS]
◼
►
out how to use them when I compile this
[TS]
◼
►
code it's much better for a machine a
[TS]
◼
►
floating point is a good example to on
[TS]
◼
►
x86 based have a separate floating-point
[TS]
◼
►
unit called the x87 stack-based
[TS]
◼
►
floating-point unit which was a a
[TS]
◼
►
dedicated separate little thing itself
[TS]
◼
►
would eventually moved on die but it was
[TS]
◼
►
stack base where you put your number
[TS]
◼
►
push another number and then push on a
[TS]
◼
►
multiplication would multiply the top
[TS]
◼
►
two numbers on the stack but you could
[TS]
◼
►
also reach down lower into the stack and
[TS]
◼
►
do stuff and I it's not really conducive
[TS]
◼
►
to parallelization because when you have
[TS]
◼
►
a stack it's like a stack of plates
[TS]
◼
►
where you pushed push two plates on the
[TS]
◼
►
top and perform an operation that
[TS]
◼
►
combines those two plates into one plate
[TS]
◼
►
and puts the result back on top of the
[TS]
◼
►
stack and if you want have 17 people
[TS]
◼
►
operating at the same time on a stack
[TS]
◼
►
it's not really great because of the way
[TS]
◼
►
a stack works you can have some guy in
[TS]
◼
►
the middle yanking things in and out
[TS]
◼
►
because what if the guy on the top was
[TS]
◼
►
doing yet anyway stack-based floating
[TS]
◼
►
point was also a problem for them
[TS]
◼
►
because it was kind of designed in in a
[TS]
◼
►
different error when the most important
[TS]
◼
►
thing wasn't like parallel execution and
[TS]
◼
►
simplicity of things now what all is
[TS]
◼
►
article that is referred to at the very
[TS]
◼
►
front of the article by John Stokes were
[TS]
◼
►
in reference to like Cisco versus risk
[TS]
◼
►
at the post ristic post risk era that
[TS]
◼
►
I'll sort of rehashing this cisco stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that I just talked about and explaining
[TS]
◼
►
how although that was the origin of the
[TS]
◼
►
risk movement it's much less relevant
[TS]
◼
►
today because these days when you have
[TS]
◼
►
this x86 quote-unquote CPU have these
[TS]
◼
►
complex complex instructions the way
[TS]
◼
►
they work internally is they take that
[TS]
◼
►
complicated instruction that says move
[TS]
◼
►
something from one memory address to
[TS]
◼
►
another and RAM and they break it down
[TS]
◼
►
into what they call micro operations so
[TS]
◼
►
they say okay even though you said move
[TS]
◼
►
this data word from address here at
[TS]
◼
►
address there I'm going to break that
[TS]
◼
►
single instruction into two smaller
[TS]
◼
►
instructions one that says get that
[TS]
◼
►
thing from memory and put it into this
[TS]
◼
►
register and other that says take that
[TS]
◼
►
register and stick and into memory all
[TS]
◼
►
right so they basically taken a sisk
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set and inside the CPU break
[TS]
◼
►
it down into something more
[TS]
◼
►
approximating a RISC instruction set and
[TS]
◼
►
the actual CPU is built to execute these
[TS]
◼
►
tiny little micro operations it's not
[TS]
◼
►
executing you know it doesn't the CPU
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't see this big complicated
[TS]
◼
►
instruction that says to do 50 things it
[TS]
◼
►
sees a stream of tiny little micro
[TS]
◼
►
operations that were created from those
[TS]
◼
►
single instructions so they build the
[TS]
◼
►
entire CPU internally to execute these
[TS]
◼
►
micro operations very efficiently and
[TS]
◼
►
very quickly and they just have a
[TS]
◼
►
decoder part on the front on the front
[TS]
◼
►
end that takes your complicated
[TS]
◼
►
instruction see and it decodes it into
[TS]
◼
►
these simpler ones and that's the idea
[TS]
◼
►
of getting at the post risk era where
[TS]
◼
►
it's like all right so the instruction
[TS]
◼
►
set itself how relevant is that if
[TS]
◼
►
everybody inside is building basically
[TS]
◼
►
risk CPUs and if you have a complex
[TS]
◼
►
instructions that you just need a
[TS]
◼
►
decoder now part of the CPU and an x86
[TS]
◼
►
chip is dedicated to all the stuff that
[TS]
◼
►
has to say okay I've got this big
[TS]
◼
►
complicated instruction coming in how
[TS]
◼
►
many micro operations does that break
[TS]
◼
►
down to can i have some piece of
[TS]
◼
►
hardware that automatically breaks that
[TS]
◼
►
down into the micro operations or is it
[TS]
◼
►
a really complicated one but i have to
[TS]
◼
►
have like a little software microcode
[TS]
◼
►
program that tells me how to break this
[TS]
◼
►
down you need to dedicate part of the
[TS]
◼
►
chip just to dealing with this thing and
[TS]
◼
►
by the way have to keep track of these
[TS]
◼
►
little micro operations you have to sort
[TS]
◼
►
of reassemble the result in to like make
[TS]
◼
►
it look as if that complicated
[TS]
◼
►
instruction really executed like you
[TS]
◼
►
can't have things go out of order it has
[TS]
◼
►
to look to the assembly programmer just
[TS]
◼
►
like those old x86 chips from Intel that
[TS]
◼
►
actually did implement this complex
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set internally despite
[TS]
◼
►
fact that inside is basically a risk
[TS]
◼
►
like CPU executing all the stuff so you
[TS]
◼
►
have all this the front-end hardware and
[TS]
◼
►
the tracking hardware and the
[TS]
◼
►
reassembling of things and making sure
[TS]
◼
►
the exact timings and exact rules are
[TS]
◼
►
maintained and they behave exactly the
[TS]
◼
►
same as they used to uh and the argument
[TS]
◼
►
back in the 90s was that all right so
[TS]
◼
►
Intel may have figured out that this
[TS]
◼
►
wrist thing is a good idea because they
[TS]
◼
►
can make their CPUs run faster but they
[TS]
◼
►
have to dedicate all this time and
[TS]
◼
►
energy and parts of the chip and like
[TS]
◼
►
they have to you know they basically
[TS]
◼
►
have to have this whole whole bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
gunk inside their CPUs to translate
[TS]
◼
►
their crappy complicated instruction set
[TS]
◼
►
into the simpler one and keep track of
[TS]
◼
►
everything and that's bad because you
[TS]
◼
►
know the PowerPC you guys don't need to
[TS]
◼
►
do that they don't have the whole
[TS]
◼
►
section of the chip doesn't have to
[TS]
◼
►
exist to break down their instructions
[TS]
◼
►
into micro operations and stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that is they already are micro and
[TS]
◼
►
everything's fine so therefore PowerPC
[TS]
◼
►
is going to win and risk is awesome and
[TS]
◼
►
Intel drools and so on so forth and from
[TS]
◼
►
a technical perspective I remember
[TS]
◼
►
feeling that way that like Intel looks
[TS]
◼
►
like the crusty crappy thing you're like
[TS]
◼
►
well they may have clever engineers and
[TS]
◼
►
they may have figured out to break up
[TS]
◼
►
their instructions to smaller ones and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff but they gotta deal with all those
[TS]
◼
►
that you know making that stuff to break
[TS]
◼
►
up the instructions and keeping track of
[TS]
◼
►
them and reassembling the results and
[TS]
◼
►
keeping the order or consistent that's
[TS]
◼
►
thanks x86 thinks it's ugly it's gross
[TS]
◼
►
right Intel also basically agreed that
[TS]
◼
►
it was ugly in gross and they trot have
[TS]
◼
►
been trying for years and years to get
[TS]
◼
►
rid of the ugliest and grossest part so
[TS]
◼
►
the stack based floating-point that's
[TS]
◼
►
not really great for doing things
[TS]
◼
►
quickly or in parallel they've been
[TS]
◼
►
deprecating that they have to keep
[TS]
◼
►
supporting it but they're like look
[TS]
◼
►
don't if if you're writing a compiler
[TS]
◼
►
for example I and someone's doing
[TS]
◼
►
floating-point math don't generate x87
[TS]
◼
►
instructions for the stack place
[TS]
◼
►
floating-point thing because that's slow
[TS]
◼
►
and it's always been slow and it's not
[TS]
◼
►
going to probably get much faster we
[TS]
◼
►
still have to support it you just saw
[TS]
◼
►
all your old programs are running stuff
[TS]
◼
►
but instead what we have here is
[TS]
◼
►
something that they called SSE streaming
[TS]
◼
►
simdi extensions cingulate single
[TS]
◼
►
instruction multiple data it's a way to
[TS]
◼
►
process lots of data in parallel once
[TS]
◼
►
like if you have you know two sets of 50
[TS]
◼
►
numbers and you want to add the first
[TS]
◼
►
set of 50 numbers to the second set of
[TS]
◼
►
50 numbers you're have instruction that
[TS]
◼
►
does it all at once and that may not
[TS]
◼
►
seem like it's the same thing as
[TS]
◼
►
but it also operates on floating point
[TS]
◼
►
numbers and they said look compiler
[TS]
◼
►
writers even though you may not think
[TS]
◼
►
you're doing like you know doing a
[TS]
◼
►
single instruction on 50 pieces of data
[TS]
◼
►
the floating part hardware we have in
[TS]
◼
►
this in these SSE parts of our chip is
[TS]
◼
►
way faster in that stack based one we
[TS]
◼
►
can do stuff in parallel don't generate
[TS]
◼
►
instructions for a stack-based floating
[TS]
◼
►
point if you see any floating point code
[TS]
◼
►
in your you know high level you know no
[TS]
◼
►
higher level bin assembly your C program
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever just target the RSS see
[TS]
◼
►
extensions and that will make your stuff
[TS]
◼
►
go faster so they have they had four
[TS]
◼
►
versions of SSC so far i think is for
[TS]
◼
►
you know I just keep version them and
[TS]
◼
►
making them more and more powerful and
[TS]
◼
►
these days if you compile a program for
[TS]
◼
►
an Intel chip you would hope that
[TS]
◼
►
there's no stack-based floating-point
[TS]
◼
►
stuff being sent to the chip despite the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that it the chip is still able do
[TS]
◼
►
that all the floating-point stuff is
[TS]
◼
►
targeting this more modern more
[TS]
◼
►
parallelizable non stack base flowing
[TS]
◼
►
point Intel also went for 32-bit 64-bit
[TS]
◼
►
and they took that while not Intel but
[TS]
◼
►
AMD actually AMD came up with a x86 64
[TS]
◼
►
which is a 64-bit bunch of instructions
[TS]
◼
►
that only work on 64-bit chips chips ba
[TS]
◼
►
that are compatible with old x86
[TS]
◼
►
programs and they took that as an
[TS]
◼
►
opportunity to make a new instruction
[TS]
◼
►
set that is more amenable to modern ship
[TS]
◼
►
designs than the old one because there
[TS]
◼
►
were no 64-bit instructions at all
[TS]
◼
►
before there was 64 bit chicks so we
[TS]
◼
►
don't have to just make like we don't
[TS]
◼
►
have to stick with the old ways this is
[TS]
◼
►
an opportunity this is a discontinuity
[TS]
◼
►
to come up with a better instruction set
[TS]
◼
►
they'd added registers they you know
[TS]
◼
►
made the rules about how the the 64-bit
[TS]
◼
►
instructions execute make it easier to
[TS]
◼
►
do encode and decode instruction
[TS]
◼
►
tracking and parallelization a lot stuff
[TS]
◼
►
Intel was off doing its own thing with
[TS]
◼
►
the Itanium and another right I remember
[TS]
◼
►
that day talk about a very long word
[TS]
◼
►
instruction computing all stuff that's
[TS]
◼
►
whole other topic but anyway so if I sit
[TS]
◼
►
decide that Intel's thing didn't quite
[TS]
◼
►
work out x86 64 caught on and now Intel
[TS]
◼
►
makes chips with x86 64 but this wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
another opportunity for them to get rid
[TS]
◼
►
of old crusty stuff say if you're
[TS]
◼
►
targeting if your compiler writer and
[TS]
◼
►
you're targeting 64-bit CPUs use these
[TS]
◼
►
cool new instructions and you have
[TS]
◼
►
access to more registers and see isn't
[TS]
◼
►
this thing getting
[TS]
◼
►
sir isn't our cpu architecture getting
[TS]
◼
►
to be more like those nice clean RISC
[TS]
◼
►
architectures where you had just had a
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of general purpose registers and
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of general purpose registers and
[TS]
◼
►
simple instruction set we're not there
[TS]
◼
►
yet but we're slowly trying to abandon
[TS]
◼
►
our craft right so that that is the path
[TS]
◼
►
that that Intel the the leading CPU
[TS]
◼
►
vendor with its complex instruction sets
[TS]
◼
►
abused has been pursuing to try to reap
[TS]
◼
►
the advantages of the risk revolution
[TS]
◼
►
without actually having a RISC
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set on it CPUs so hold this
[TS]
◼
►
thought about risk versus cysts for a
[TS]
◼
►
moment that hopefully you have some at
[TS]
◼
►
least sort of feel for and we do a
[TS]
◼
►
sidebar into one other topic that will
[TS]
◼
►
come back and turn out to be relevant
[TS]
◼
►
all right so all the stuff we've been
[TS]
◼
►
talking about is you know for processor
[TS]
◼
►
so what is a processor and how do we
[TS]
◼
►
make it that turns out to be very
[TS]
◼
►
important you all know the process a
[TS]
◼
►
little black chip that we see in the
[TS]
◼
►
diagram is the flat thing it's got a
[TS]
◼
►
little metal contact somewhere on it and
[TS]
◼
►
inside that little black package is a
[TS]
◼
►
semiconductor it's like a piece of
[TS]
◼
►
silicon it's very flat and the way they
[TS]
◼
►
make stuff on it is they use lithography
[TS]
◼
►
to etch things onto it and with ography
[TS]
◼
►
is just basically shining light or some
[TS]
◼
►
other light like thing through a mask
[TS]
◼
►
that block some of the light and let
[TS]
◼
►
some through and they use materials and
[TS]
◼
►
techniques so that when the light hits a
[TS]
◼
►
certain area it changes the material in
[TS]
◼
►
one way and like doesn't hit the area it
[TS]
◼
►
leaves the material the other way and
[TS]
◼
►
they do this to make very small things
[TS]
◼
►
basically by using different kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
light and different ways to focus it and
[TS]
◼
►
you know other techniques they can make
[TS]
◼
►
very small features that no machine
[TS]
◼
►
could ever edge like the little tiny
[TS]
◼
►
things that are on these chips but like
[TS]
◼
►
that they they can focus a light another
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know what you would call it but
[TS]
◼
►
electromagnetic radiation into very
[TS]
◼
►
small areas and so they can make the
[TS]
◼
►
mask actually relatively big and then
[TS]
◼
►
use lenses and stuff to focus it down
[TS]
◼
►
and make different features they do this
[TS]
◼
►
again and again until they wear away the
[TS]
◼
►
material on certain things and what
[TS]
◼
►
they're basically trying to make is a
[TS]
◼
►
transistor think thing they can switch
[TS]
◼
►
on and off and they do this by having
[TS]
◼
►
doing layers of material that allow
[TS]
◼
►
ektron electrons to flow through them or
[TS]
◼
►
not depending on if some current is
[TS]
◼
►
applied to some other layer of material
[TS]
◼
►
but the point is that these things are
[TS]
◼
►
very very small and the way they
[TS]
◼
►
describe the size of the
[TS]
◼
►
things that are etched on here with
[TS]
◼
►
lithography is called the feature size
[TS]
◼
►
or sometimes the process node I tried to
[TS]
◼
►
look up a good definition to this we all
[TS]
◼
►
hear these numbers bandied about we've
[TS]
◼
►
talked about on this show when we say
[TS]
◼
►
like oh the they're using ad I Shrunk
[TS]
◼
►
version of the a5 in the ipad 2 and the
[TS]
◼
►
new ipad 2 is it used to be about forty
[TS]
◼
►
five nanometers and now it's 32
[TS]
◼
►
nanometers alright so nanometers is how
[TS]
◼
►
they measure that's that's the scale
[TS]
◼
►
things are measured these days it used
[TS]
◼
►
to be was it a microns or micrometers
[TS]
◼
►
and remember what it was before we went
[TS]
◼
►
down to nanometers but they it nanometer
[TS]
◼
►
is very small right and what they're
[TS]
◼
►
measuring is the call the half pitch is
[TS]
◼
►
the half that half the distance between
[TS]
◼
►
identical features on the edge piece of
[TS]
◼
►
silicon usually for a memory cell
[TS]
◼
►
because memory cells are very very
[TS]
◼
►
regular doesn't mean that every single
[TS]
◼
►
thing on a 32 nanometer chip is 32
[TS]
◼
►
nanometers wide or 32 nanometers apart
[TS]
◼
►
but it's like it's a they need some way
[TS]
◼
►
to measure these things because larger
[TS]
◼
►
features are chunkier and smaller
[TS]
◼
►
simpler features can be skinnier but
[TS]
◼
►
they've just come up with a single
[TS]
◼
►
standard for how we talk about how small
[TS]
◼
►
you can make stuff and that number is in
[TS]
◼
►
marching down for all of our lives you
[TS]
◼
►
used to be you could not make things
[TS]
◼
►
that were you know very small at all
[TS]
◼
►
compared to what we have now and then we
[TS]
◼
►
just keep getting smaller and smaller
[TS]
◼
►
and smaller and smaller every year and
[TS]
◼
►
that means the entire thing shrinks
[TS]
◼
►
because you can make every piece smaller
[TS]
◼
►
than the whole thing gets smaller and
[TS]
◼
►
smaller and smaller right so Ivy Bridge
[TS]
◼
►
processors that's Intel's processes that
[TS]
◼
►
in the macbook air is macbook pros
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's current crop of desktop and
[TS]
◼
►
laptop CPUs they are done at the 22
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer process note and they have all
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of other features you know about
[TS]
◼
►
their 3d transistors different ways to
[TS]
◼
►
etch things onto the the silicon thing
[TS]
◼
►
so too can jam more stuff in a closed
[TS]
◼
►
the thing but bottom line is that there
[TS]
◼
►
are 22 nanometers right uh and in
[TS]
◼
►
general as you shrink this feature size
[TS]
◼
►
as you make everything smaller and
[TS]
◼
►
smaller almost everything improves the
[TS]
◼
►
cost improves tremendously because your
[TS]
◼
►
unit of cost is like how many of these
[TS]
◼
►
little chips can I fit onto a silicon
[TS]
◼
►
wafer so looking way for some big
[TS]
◼
►
circular thing maybe the size of like a
[TS]
◼
►
basketball or something you know that
[TS]
◼
►
and if you can fit 10 chips on there and
[TS]
◼
►
it costs you you know a hundred dollars
[TS]
◼
►
to make one of those wafers then each
[TS]
◼
►
chip cost you ten bucks to make but if
[TS]
◼
►
you can get a thousand ships on that
[TS]
◼
►
same way for suddenly the cost per chip
[TS]
◼
►
goes way down so shrinking things is
[TS]
◼
►
good because your costs are like I cost
[TS]
◼
►
me a certain amount to etch a single
[TS]
◼
►
piece of silicon and that costs like is
[TS]
◼
►
dependent on a whole bunch other factors
[TS]
◼
►
but the point is if I can jam more and
[TS]
◼
►
more cpus onto that piece of silicon the
[TS]
◼
►
cost of making it doesn't go go you know
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't go up I would love to be able to
[TS]
◼
►
put more things on here so the more
[TS]
◼
►
things you can spit on to a single
[TS]
◼
►
silicon wafer you know the better it is
[TS]
◼
►
for you right the power required to run
[TS]
◼
►
these dinky little things goes down
[TS]
◼
►
because if you can make them smaller and
[TS]
◼
►
smaller if you can imagine if you have
[TS]
◼
►
to run it chip the size of a dinner
[TS]
◼
►
plate a single chip it would take a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of power to run that thing when you make
[TS]
◼
►
them small you don't need as much power
[TS]
◼
►
uh and the speed goes up for variety of
[TS]
◼
►
reasons but even just like in it the at
[TS]
◼
►
the very high end of the scale look if
[TS]
◼
►
the thing was the size of a basketball
[TS]
◼
►
it takes a certain amount of time for an
[TS]
◼
►
electrical signal or propagate from the
[TS]
◼
►
upper left corner to lower right corner
[TS]
◼
►
whereas if the thing is the size of your
[TS]
◼
►
thumbnail that distance shrinks and when
[TS]
◼
►
you're going really really fast they may
[TS]
◼
►
seem like oh I'll don't the electrons
[TS]
◼
►
travel close to the speed of light and
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't make that well it makes a
[TS]
◼
►
difference when you're trying to you
[TS]
◼
►
know go billions of cycles per second or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever how r this one thing that that
[TS]
◼
►
is a problem when you may think smaller
[TS]
◼
►
you make them really really small
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly it becomes really easy for
[TS]
◼
►
electrons that you didn't want to go
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere just sort of just slip through
[TS]
◼
►
like you make things so small that just
[TS]
◼
►
random electrons kind of rattling around
[TS]
◼
►
end up sort of leaking through or you
[TS]
◼
►
didn't want them to go just because
[TS]
◼
►
everything is so small like when things
[TS]
◼
►
are big and chunky you can put a big
[TS]
◼
►
wall between uh no electrons can go
[TS]
◼
►
through here I'm totally putting down
[TS]
◼
►
this big wall but when things are really
[TS]
◼
►
really really tiny that wall is so
[TS]
◼
►
skinny that occasionally maybe a couple
[TS]
◼
►
electrons start floating through there
[TS]
◼
►
and that's called leakage current and
[TS]
◼
►
there are various techniques to try to
[TS]
◼
►
control that but that's when you start
[TS]
◼
►
getting really small like down to the
[TS]
◼
►
size of like you were you measuring
[TS]
◼
►
feature sizes and you know how many
[TS]
◼
►
atoms are there it between this area in
[TS]
◼
►
that area then you have some problems
[TS]
◼
►
but in general doing shrinks is better
[TS]
◼
►
there's another article again by John
[TS]
◼
►
Stokes also an older our goal talking
[TS]
◼
►
about understanding Moore's
[TS]
◼
►
aw Moore's Law is the thing we hear
[TS]
◼
►
thrown around in the world of computing
[TS]
◼
►
a lot that most light people i think
[TS]
◼
►
understand as Moore's law means
[TS]
◼
►
computers get faster and faster all the
[TS]
◼
►
time which is not what Moore's law
[TS]
◼
►
actually says it's like a third level
[TS]
◼
►
consequence of it but Moore's law was
[TS]
◼
►
set as saying as he was just noting that
[TS]
◼
►
in the early days of semiconductors the
[TS]
◼
►
number of transitions we can shove on to
[TS]
◼
►
a particular area keeps doubling every
[TS]
◼
►
12 months basically he was noting that
[TS]
◼
►
they they keep being able to shrink
[TS]
◼
►
their feature sizes so before on this
[TS]
◼
►
one silicon wafer we could fit 10 CPUs
[TS]
◼
►
then 12 months from now we can fit 20
[TS]
◼
►
and after that we can put 40 in it and
[TS]
◼
►
12 months after that we can fit ad and
[TS]
◼
►
it just keeps going up and up and he did
[TS]
◼
►
the graph means like wow soon we're
[TS]
◼
►
going to be able to shove huge amount of
[TS]
◼
►
transistors on to yeah right now we can
[TS]
◼
►
only do chips with a thousand
[TS]
◼
►
transistors of the size of your
[TS]
◼
►
thumbnail soon we'll be able to do chips
[TS]
◼
►
with you know ten times that and
[TS]
◼
►
especially in the early days of
[TS]
◼
►
computing if you gave a chip designer
[TS]
◼
►
more transistors to work with they could
[TS]
◼
►
make a more powerful CPU beach like all
[TS]
◼
►
before I could I can only add two
[TS]
◼
►
numbers together at once but now I have
[TS]
◼
►
double the number of transistors I can
[TS]
◼
►
just add another a door right nice that
[TS]
◼
►
and that they can both go at the same
[TS]
◼
►
time and i can add four numbers together
[TS]
◼
►
at the same time isn't that great and i
[TS]
◼
►
can add more memory and more cache
[TS]
◼
►
memory and also the things that get
[TS]
◼
►
better with shrinking things so being
[TS]
◼
►
able to have more transistors at your
[TS]
◼
►
disposal has led to you know for the
[TS]
◼
►
first couple decades of cpu development
[TS]
◼
►
every year computers would get faster
[TS]
◼
►
and faster because those guys had more
[TS]
◼
►
cpus that they could deal with and you
[TS]
◼
►
know they could either make your your
[TS]
◼
►
thing your existing cpu cost half as
[TS]
◼
►
much or they can make a new cpu that
[TS]
◼
►
cost the same amount that goes twice as
[TS]
◼
►
fast and that was a great run for how
[TS]
◼
►
long it lasted but not in general the
[TS]
◼
►
number of transistors doesn't exactly
[TS]
◼
►
equal speed but in the early days it did
[TS]
◼
►
now this was during the the risk versus
[TS]
◼
►
sisk wars we're like oh we've got this
[TS]
◼
►
increasing number of transistors but
[TS]
◼
►
your instruction set is stupid and we
[TS]
◼
►
have a better one and you've got a
[TS]
◼
►
parole this decode hardware on there
[TS]
◼
►
everything and risk was technically
[TS]
◼
►
superior because it didn't you know they
[TS]
◼
►
said we found a way to make you know
[TS]
◼
►
you're doing a sewing machine and we've
[TS]
◼
►
got an electric motor and we can make
[TS]
◼
►
this go so fast look at this we've got a
[TS]
◼
►
1 gigahertz alpha processor you can't
[TS]
◼
►
get the 1 gigahertz because you can't
[TS]
◼
►
run your sewing machine that fast and so
[TS]
◼
►
tell guys had to go back to the drawing
[TS]
◼
►
board how how how the hell can we make
[TS]
◼
►
this thing go faster we've got to break
[TS]
◼
►
things things down into small pieces and
[TS]
◼
►
then do our little internal core that
[TS]
◼
►
runs fast then have the external part
[TS]
◼
►
track everything and like now the risk
[TS]
◼
►
guys were laughing at him right you know
[TS]
◼
►
you guys suck you made a bad choice you
[TS]
◼
►
know you were there early we come in
[TS]
◼
►
later we have a better solution we're
[TS]
◼
►
going to crush you the dec alpha the
[TS]
◼
►
PowerPC all sorts of killer chips from
[TS]
◼
►
these risc cpu vendors in like the the
[TS]
◼
►
90s we're going to put Intel out of
[TS]
◼
►
business now Intel smart and they do a
[TS]
◼
►
lot stuff with decoding their
[TS]
◼
►
instructions and stuff like that but the
[TS]
◼
►
real thing that saved Intel's bacon is
[TS]
◼
►
the aforementioned Moore's law that
[TS]
◼
►
every year you could fit more and more
[TS]
◼
►
transistors on to the same size chip ah
[TS]
◼
►
and that is relevant because as the
[TS]
◼
►
number of transistors per unit area
[TS]
◼
►
increases and you know as the number of
[TS]
◼
►
transistors available to given cost
[TS]
◼
►
increases the relative percentage of the
[TS]
◼
►
total transistor count used by all that
[TS]
◼
►
ugly x86 decoding and tracking hardware
[TS]
◼
►
becomes a smaller and smaller percentage
[TS]
◼
►
of the total alright so you can do a
[TS]
◼
►
complete x86 implementation in like
[TS]
◼
►
29,000 transistors like the 8086 at
[TS]
◼
►
29,000 transistors right obviously
[TS]
◼
►
modern CPUs need you know they're doing
[TS]
◼
►
more complicated stuff than the 8086 but
[TS]
◼
►
it goes goes to show the like how many
[TS]
◼
►
transistors do you need to take x86
[TS]
◼
►
instructions crack them into micro
[TS]
◼
►
operations track them as they go through
[TS]
◼
►
the machinery and reassemble them in the
[TS]
◼
►
end it's more than 29,000 ah you know
[TS]
◼
►
and of course it's not it's not as
[TS]
◼
►
simple as that was but I've you bid
[TS]
◼
►
transistors the current like I've your
[TS]
◼
►
bridge line of CPUs have 1.4 billion
[TS]
◼
►
transistors they have billion
[TS]
◼
►
transistors in them that's a lot right
[TS]
◼
►
so what percentage of that 1.4 billion
[TS]
◼
►
transistors is dedicated to dealing with
[TS]
◼
►
x86 decode tracking and reassembly stuff
[TS]
◼
►
the the press what eventually happened
[TS]
◼
►
was yeah x86 was uglier and the other
[TS]
◼
►
market forces involved or whatever but
[TS]
◼
►
the the penalty for having a crappier
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set just started to shrink
[TS]
◼
►
and shrink and Rigby's transistors were
[TS]
◼
►
just falling out of the sky
[TS]
◼
►
it's like oh we gotta dedicate half-hour
[TS]
◼
►
chip to do deal with x86 okay now we
[TS]
◼
►
have to get a fourth ok now we're
[TS]
◼
►
dedicating eighth now dedicating a
[TS]
◼
►
sixteenth eventually it's like it
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't matter you know you know how
[TS]
◼
►
many CPUs it takes for us to deal with
[TS]
◼
►
x86 it is an insignificant percentage of
[TS]
◼
►
the total number of CPUs of transistors
[TS]
◼
►
in the CPU in fact most of the CPU like
[TS]
◼
►
half of it is cash at this point you
[TS]
◼
►
know but it's it doesn't matter that we
[TS]
◼
►
have an uglier instruction set because
[TS]
◼
►
of Moore's law and many other factors
[TS]
◼
►
but in a large part because of Moore's
[TS]
◼
►
law the x86 penalty for having to do all
[TS]
◼
►
that ugly stuff went away and the risks
[TS]
◼
►
iska is theoretical cool advantage of
[TS]
◼
►
you know we have a simpler instruction
[TS]
◼
►
set we don't have to deal ugly decoding
[TS]
◼
►
and coding was no longer relevant and
[TS]
◼
►
along the way in that process since it
[TS]
◼
►
was so important for Intel to be able to
[TS]
◼
►
have as many transistors as is at its
[TS]
◼
►
disposal as a as it wanted and also
[TS]
◼
►
because you know doing die shrinks have
[TS]
◼
►
many other advantages Intel got really
[TS]
◼
►
good at doing those shrinks like say
[TS]
◼
►
okay this year we're going to be a 65
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer and next year we're going to
[TS]
◼
►
be at 45 and then you know for that
[TS]
◼
►
we're gonna be a 32 and they're just
[TS]
◼
►
like a shrink shrink shrink because we
[TS]
◼
►
want more and more transistors on our
[TS]
◼
►
chips because it's you know it's it
[TS]
◼
►
gives us an advantage we want to have as
[TS]
◼
►
many as we want it helped them out when
[TS]
◼
►
they were trying to decrease the burden
[TS]
◼
►
of the x86 burden because like so what
[TS]
◼
►
we got to do this decode stuff whatever
[TS]
◼
►
we just need more see more princess just
[TS]
◼
►
throw them on there right put on you
[TS]
◼
►
know increase caches on our chips to
[TS]
◼
►
make them faster all stuff like that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so so while the x86 burden is
[TS]
◼
►
technically gross and upsetting to
[TS]
◼
►
techno purists like me it at this point
[TS]
◼
►
it has very little practical effect or
[TS]
◼
►
rather its practical effects are able to
[TS]
◼
►
be managed by Intel because then tells
[TS]
◼
►
really smart and they have a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
transistors and as mentioned earlier
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's currently shipping 22 nanometer
[TS]
◼
►
chips us there they're a feature size
[TS]
◼
►
all right now Apple's a six they're cool
[TS]
◼
►
fancy CPU that's in the iPhone 5 and the
[TS]
◼
►
iPad for that is a 32 nanometer chip and
[TS]
◼
►
32 is bigger than 22 and this highlights
[TS]
◼
►
for many years now but the past several
[TS]
◼
►
years intel has consistently been one
[TS]
◼
►
generation at least ahead of everybody
[TS]
◼
►
else on feature size so intel has been
[TS]
◼
►
shipping 22 nanometers ships for a long
[TS]
◼
►
time and apples a six which just came
[TS]
◼
►
out in the iphone five fairly recently
[TS]
◼
►
is 32 nanometer Intel is ahead and then
[TS]
◼
►
by the way it helps fit shipping
[TS]
◼
►
full-fledged CPUs at 22 nanometers with
[TS]
◼
►
1.4 billion transistors it's not even
[TS]
◼
►
close to what the a6 is right most chip
[TS]
◼
►
makers when they start off on a new
[TS]
◼
►
process node the Merse they make memory
[TS]
◼
►
because memory is very regular very
[TS]
◼
►
simple not complicated at all they just
[TS]
◼
►
make memory chips and after they've
[TS]
◼
►
sorted that out okay we can make 32
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer memory chips let's try making
[TS]
◼
►
some more complicated things and
[TS]
◼
►
eventually they work their way up to big
[TS]
◼
►
complicated cpu intel is shipping GPUs
[TS]
◼
►
with billions of transistors at 22
[TS]
◼
►
nanometers Apple for all its amazing
[TS]
◼
►
power and money is shipping 32 nanometer
[TS]
◼
►
chips and this is in a context where
[TS]
◼
►
like boy you know incredibly power
[TS]
◼
►
sensitive you want it to be small you
[TS]
◼
►
want to use not a lot of power wouldn't
[TS]
◼
►
it be great if apple cup of 22 nanometer
[TS]
◼
►
a sex why don't they because intel has
[TS]
◼
►
been ahead of everyone else because they
[TS]
◼
►
invest tons of money in it they have the
[TS]
◼
►
most experience and it's been a pretty
[TS]
◼
►
sustained advantage it's not like Oh a
[TS]
◼
►
one-year Intel's ahead then another year
[TS]
◼
►
AMD is ahead no intel has been the big
[TS]
◼
►
dog here they are making ships a
[TS]
◼
►
generation of head where everyone else
[TS]
◼
►
has been doing in terms of feature size
[TS]
◼
►
all which finally brings us back to
[TS]
◼
►
Apple switching to arm and this may be a
[TS]
◼
►
good time to do the final sponsor before
[TS]
◼
►
I before I bring this home happy to
[TS]
◼
►
oblige at squarespace.com everything you
[TS]
◼
►
need to make an amazing website we use
[TS]
◼
►
them for a lot of the blogging stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that's kind of what they're known for
[TS]
◼
►
that's kind of they got their start but
[TS]
◼
►
you can build entire websites you can
[TS]
◼
►
have multiple blogs on the web sites you
[TS]
◼
►
can have galleries they're basically
[TS]
◼
►
completely managed environment leidy
[TS]
◼
►
create and maintain maintain is the key
[TS]
◼
►
a website a blog portfolio what's cool
[TS]
◼
►
about Squarespace is you don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
know anything maybe your maybe all you
[TS]
◼
►
do is worry about risk and sisk
[TS]
◼
►
processors and you don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
understand how to build a site you can
[TS]
◼
►
use this drag and drop stuff but if you
[TS]
◼
►
are an uber geek and you'd like things
[TS]
◼
►
like writing code in HTML and
[TS]
◼
►
controlling JavaScript and you want to
[TS]
◼
►
control every single aspect of the site
[TS]
◼
►
you can do that with their templates you
[TS]
◼
►
just switch to developer mode and you
[TS]
◼
►
can use SFTP or you can use get to
[TS]
◼
►
publish your site it's super super cool
[TS]
◼
►
and you can go to developers not
[TS]
◼
►
squarespace com to learn more about that
[TS]
◼
►
all of their templates at least until
[TS]
◼
►
you bust a mob start as completely
[TS]
◼
►
responsive things they were structure
[TS]
◼
►
automatically when you look at them on
[TS]
◼
►
an iOS device what this means is you're
[TS]
◼
►
not gonna have to deal with serving up a
[TS]
◼
►
crummy mobile version of your site to
[TS]
◼
►
someone you send so you build it once
[TS]
◼
►
and it looks good and everywhere or just
[TS]
◼
►
use their templates are already built to
[TS]
◼
►
do that so here's the way this works
[TS]
◼
►
this is not free they give you 24 7
[TS]
◼
►
customer support you got to pay for that
[TS]
◼
►
it's not something that just happens
[TS]
◼
►
they don't have a staff of people there
[TS]
◼
►
that you know for nothing but it's 10
[TS]
◼
►
bucks a month actually it's less than
[TS]
◼
►
that if you use the coupon code which
[TS]
◼
►
I'll tell you about in a second you want
[TS]
◼
►
the unlimited plan its twenty bucks a
[TS]
◼
►
month you send up for a year you get
[TS]
◼
►
twenty percent off you sign up for two
[TS]
◼
►
years to get twenty-five percent off
[TS]
◼
►
some people just might be month month
[TS]
◼
►
that's fine too you don't have to even
[TS]
◼
►
give them a credit card to try it out
[TS]
◼
►
and that's what I would like for you to
[TS]
◼
►
do trying it out will support the show
[TS]
◼
►
go to squarespace com / 5 by 5 you don't
[TS]
◼
►
have to give them anything you just come
[TS]
◼
►
up with a little name for your site and
[TS]
◼
►
get going the code that you want to use
[TS]
◼
►
is Dan sent me 11 well a couple people
[TS]
◼
►
were saying oh dance at me 11 code
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't working it to working now dan
[TS]
◼
►
sent me 11 this is going to get you ten
[TS]
◼
►
percent off whether you do the month to
[TS]
◼
►
month or the year it's all cumulative so
[TS]
◼
►
go check them out support this show
[TS]
◼
►
squarespace com / 5 by 5 code is dance
[TS]
◼
►
at me 11 more details in the show notes
[TS]
◼
►
all right Apple switching to arm meaning
[TS]
◼
►
Apple stops putting Intel CPUs in their
[TS]
◼
►
macs and replaces would this be with
[TS]
◼
►
this is the arm CP would this be a
[TS]
◼
►
bigger move John then switch to Intel
[TS]
◼
►
back in what was it Oh 306 yes it would
[TS]
◼
►
be no I explain why so what are the
[TS]
◼
►
challenges facing Apple if they decide
[TS]
◼
►
to do this first thing they have to do
[TS]
◼
►
is they have to match the performance of
[TS]
◼
►
Intel CPUs maybe you don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
exceed them but you at least have to
[TS]
◼
►
match it because if you have into
[TS]
◼
►
cpus now and you're saying we don't want
[TS]
◼
►
them anywhere we want arm CPUs well you
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to make everything slower
[TS]
◼
►
right and you don't have to match the
[TS]
◼
►
current Intel CPUs you have to match the
[TS]
◼
►
upcoming Intel CPUs like you know you
[TS]
◼
►
have to look at intel's roadmap and say
[TS]
◼
►
well they say in this year they're going
[TS]
◼
►
all with the cpu can we make something
[TS]
◼
►
that's as has that kind of performance
[TS]
◼
►
Intel is really good at making CPUs
[TS]
◼
►
right Apple's asics is by all accounts
[TS]
◼
►
very good and nicely designed everything
[TS]
◼
►
but Apple didn't have to design the
[TS]
◼
►
instruction set itself it sort of
[TS]
◼
►
licensed that from arm and the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that is doing at CPU it's a smaller CPU
[TS]
◼
►
it looks like it was hand laid out and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff like that but it is not as
[TS]
◼
►
ambitious as the crazy stuff that
[TS]
◼
►
entailed does routinely to make its x86
[TS]
◼
►
chips fast because x86 is still ugly and
[TS]
◼
►
disgusting and they manage to make that
[TS]
◼
►
go fast they've got serious skills there
[TS]
◼
►
look at AMD the only other real viable
[TS]
◼
►
competitor to Intel back in the old
[TS]
◼
►
desktop server CPU wars they am d
[TS]
◼
►
invented the x86 64 instructions that
[TS]
◼
►
ball Intel was off screwing things up
[TS]
◼
►
with the Itanium AMD has lots of you
[TS]
◼
►
know has some skilled there for a while
[TS]
◼
►
AMD was faster and better than intel
[TS]
◼
►
back when Intel was in the net burst
[TS]
◼
►
pentium 4 days where they just
[TS]
◼
►
concentrate entirely on clock speed to
[TS]
◼
►
the detriment of everything else that
[TS]
◼
►
turned out to not be a good idea so AMD
[TS]
◼
►
was ahead for a while uh but these days
[TS]
◼
►
intel has come roaring back and got
[TS]
◼
►
their house in order and they've just
[TS]
◼
►
been trouncing AMD in terms of
[TS]
◼
►
performance for many years now uh and if
[TS]
◼
►
you look at like the Geekbench scores of
[TS]
◼
►
like you know people say what about
[TS]
◼
►
we'll just use the a6 in a macbook air
[TS]
◼
►
like I'm picking geekbench just because
[TS]
◼
►
it's a site that I could find you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's very difficult to benchmark CPUs
[TS]
◼
►
and say what makes one fast or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
but no matter how bad and synthetic
[TS]
◼
►
these benchmarks are at a certain point
[TS]
◼
►
it makes a difference so like the the
[TS]
◼
►
iphone 5 from the geekbench score is it
[TS]
◼
►
was like 1600 or something like that
[TS]
◼
►
under there their scores confuse the
[TS]
◼
►
ipad 3 someone said an ipad 3 with an a6
[TS]
◼
►
but the ipad 3 doesn't have an asic so
[TS]
◼
►
that's also computing but anyway the
[TS]
◼
►
ipad the fastest ipad score i could find
[TS]
◼
►
was like 5,000 the macbook air scores
[TS]
◼
►
that I could find we're like 8,000 right
[TS]
◼
►
and then the Mac Pro scores for like
[TS]
◼
►
thirty six thousand so
[TS]
◼
►
the mac pro at the top of 36,000 and the
[TS]
◼
►
iphone 5 with an a6 at 1000 that's like
[TS]
◼
►
an order of magnitude difference they're
[TS]
◼
►
in range between what what these little
[TS]
◼
►
arm CPUs can do no one's saying you're
[TS]
◼
►
going to put an a6 into a mac but it
[TS]
◼
►
just goes to show that Apple has yet to
[TS]
◼
►
build an arm CPU that is performance
[TS]
◼
►
competitive with it so it's not like
[TS]
◼
►
they have something ready to go even
[TS]
◼
►
like the a-15 which is a the reference
[TS]
◼
►
design from RM CPUs or whatever there's
[TS]
◼
►
a long gap between anything any actual
[TS]
◼
►
shipping arm CPU and the fastest
[TS]
◼
►
shipping Intel CPUs so somehow Apple
[TS]
◼
►
would be it's their responsibility to
[TS]
◼
►
now bridge that gap because again you do
[TS]
◼
►
not want to ship the next generation of
[TS]
◼
►
MacBook Airs that are slower than the
[TS]
◼
►
current generation so you have to match
[TS]
◼
►
them that's hard to do right second and
[TS]
◼
►
this is the real killer you want to
[TS]
◼
►
match their power consumption because
[TS]
◼
►
the whole reason you're you know
[TS]
◼
►
supposedly going to arm is like oh we
[TS]
◼
►
use arm CPUs and our phones and they sit
[TS]
◼
►
battery and then we keep using these big
[TS]
◼
►
hot power-hungry Intel CPUs and our
[TS]
◼
►
MacBook Airs uh well you can't just take
[TS]
◼
►
the current crop of arm CPUs and stick
[TS]
◼
►
them to a Mac because they're way too
[TS]
◼
►
slow and if you can make them as fast
[TS]
◼
►
now you have to make them as fast and
[TS]
◼
►
make them you know and not make them
[TS]
◼
►
consume as much power as Intel's
[TS]
◼
►
upcoming line of stuff uh and one of the
[TS]
◼
►
biggest factors not the biggest factor
[TS]
◼
►
and how much power your CPU takes is the
[TS]
◼
►
process size and as previously mentioned
[TS]
◼
►
Intel is an entire generation ahead on
[TS]
◼
►
process while you are making 32
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer chips Intel's shipping 22
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer chips and that's a huge
[TS]
◼
►
advantage when it comes to to power
[TS]
◼
►
right so for desktops and laptops is it
[TS]
◼
►
possible to match or exceed Intel's
[TS]
◼
►
performance and its performance per watt
[TS]
◼
►
at a bigger process node like can you
[TS]
◼
►
make can you make a cpu at 30 nanometers
[TS]
◼
►
that has better performance and better
[TS]
◼
►
performance per watt than intel when
[TS]
◼
►
they get to use 22 nanometers probably
[TS]
◼
►
not that's probably pretty much a
[TS]
◼
►
physical impossibility no matter how
[TS]
◼
►
awesome you are and how in company intel
[TS]
◼
►
is an intel is not incompetent right and
[TS]
◼
►
and even if you could what would your
[TS]
◼
►
advantage be say okay i think that at 32
[TS]
◼
►
nanometers i can make a chip that it's
[TS]
◼
►
better price performance than intel even
[TS]
◼
►
though they get to make all the chips of
[TS]
◼
►
22 nanometers right ah say you could do
[TS]
◼
►
that can you do it
[TS]
◼
►
lower costs you know because they can
[TS]
◼
►
fit way more chips onto a wafer and
[TS]
◼
►
they've been doing it for longer and by
[TS]
◼
►
the way you have to find someone to
[TS]
◼
►
manufacture this chip for you and with
[TS]
◼
►
the articles mentions I could use a TSMC
[TS]
◼
►
taiwan semiconductor manufacturing
[TS]
◼
►
company like you know dedicated
[TS]
◼
►
semiconductor foundry you give them a
[TS]
◼
►
design they manufacture it they're not
[TS]
◼
►
in the process they're not in the
[TS]
◼
►
business of making ships you just say
[TS]
◼
►
okay you've got a design fab it for me
[TS]
◼
►
make these chips again they're they're
[TS]
◼
►
consistently a generation behind what
[TS]
◼
►
Intel can produce an Intel does not
[TS]
◼
►
really rent out its boundaries to its
[TS]
◼
►
competitors oh yeah until it's not going
[TS]
◼
►
to say hey you want to make a chip
[TS]
◼
►
Sierra will make your arm chips for you
[TS]
◼
►
20 nanometers just give us a design and
[TS]
◼
►
we'll turn them out no that's not really
[TS]
◼
►
what they're interested in for obvious
[TS]
◼
►
reasons right when Apple switched from
[TS]
◼
►
PowerPC to Intel i wrote an article
[TS]
◼
►
about this i linked in the show notes in
[TS]
◼
►
general it was a relief because finally
[TS]
◼
►
apple fans and Apple itself could stop
[TS]
◼
►
worrying about oh god Intel's got some
[TS]
◼
►
new chips coming out and they're really
[TS]
◼
►
awesome and their generation ahead and
[TS]
◼
►
process node and they're there really
[TS]
◼
►
fast and we need power pc chips that can
[TS]
◼
►
compete with those and we have to go beg
[TS]
◼
►
IBM to make them for us or big motor
[TS]
◼
►
role to do something that's just finally
[TS]
◼
►
it was really fly right we're off that
[TS]
◼
►
bandwagon whatever Intel comes out with
[TS]
◼
►
we get to reap those benefits now
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly Apple users for the past I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know how many years it's been for
[TS]
◼
►
a long time now we've not had to worry
[TS]
◼
►
about sea views we've not had to worry
[TS]
◼
►
about Max or slow because they use
[TS]
◼
►
crappy CPUs they use the same ones that
[TS]
◼
►
everyone else which also happened to be
[TS]
◼
►
the best ones in terms of price and
[TS]
◼
►
performance which are from Intel going
[TS]
◼
►
back to arm would mean that you are back
[TS]
◼
►
on the hook of like oh god oh god
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's coming out with new chips we
[TS]
◼
►
need to we need to make something that's
[TS]
◼
►
as good as these new Intel chips and
[TS]
◼
►
Apple hurry up and designed that arm
[TS]
◼
►
chip that's gonna you know compete with
[TS]
◼
►
Intel chips and that horse race will be
[TS]
◼
►
back which would be exciting but also
[TS]
◼
►
depressing if Intel starts kicking our
[TS]
◼
►
butts uh one obvious question here is
[TS]
◼
►
like okay so if Intel's always ahead and
[TS]
◼
►
process note and they're making 22
[TS]
◼
►
nanometer chips why don't all the
[TS]
◼
►
iphones and ipads use intel chips ah
[TS]
◼
►
that's a good question for the senior
[TS]
◼
►
leadership at intel because part of the
[TS]
◼
►
problem has been that thus far intel has
[TS]
◼
►
not well first of all when you get down
[TS]
◼
►
to small sizes suddenly that x86 burden
[TS]
◼
►
becomes more relevant again because when
[TS]
◼
►
you're making a 1.4 billion transistor
[TS]
◼
►
number of transistors you need to deal
[TS]
◼
►
with x86 crap is a small percentage but
[TS]
◼
►
if you make a much much much much
[TS]
◼
►
smaller chip with far fewer transistors
[TS]
◼
►
like the a6 suddenly the excess stuff
[TS]
◼
►
there starts to count you're like oh
[TS]
◼
►
geez I would really like if I didn't
[TS]
◼
►
have to deal with the x86 stuff and the
[TS]
◼
►
arm chips don't have to deal with their
[TS]
◼
►
very simple very straightforward risk
[TS]
◼
►
machines that's why a 32 nanometer a6
[TS]
◼
►
chip can even compete in the mobile
[TS]
◼
►
space because the x86 burden is relevant
[TS]
◼
►
they're like the best of both worlds
[TS]
◼
►
would be take apples a6 design and have
[TS]
◼
►
Intel phablet at 22 nanometers but that
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't exist because until it's not
[TS]
◼
►
going to do that for you and Intel is
[TS]
◼
►
trying to make wimpier and wimpy or CPUs
[TS]
◼
►
it's got its Adam line of processors and
[TS]
◼
►
they just keep going you know Intel's
[TS]
◼
►
going down down down scale and as it
[TS]
◼
►
goes down scale smaller chips fewer
[TS]
◼
►
transistors the x86 stuff starts to
[TS]
◼
►
become relevant again which must stick
[TS]
◼
►
and Intel's crawl but what else can you
[TS]
◼
►
do because that's what they've got until
[TS]
◼
►
used to have holdings in arm and that
[TS]
◼
►
divested itself from arm and dedicated
[TS]
◼
►
itself to x86 and as you know that's all
[TS]
◼
►
they show to about whether they're doing
[TS]
◼
►
the right move over there but the bottom
[TS]
◼
►
line is that you've got arm way down at
[TS]
◼
►
the low end with a very simple low power
[TS]
◼
►
chip design but a generation behind in
[TS]
◼
►
manufacturing not that our manufacturers
[TS]
◼
►
stuff but like whoever they're fabbing
[TS]
◼
►
them it's not Intel I mean you and Intel
[TS]
◼
►
trying to bring it's it's incredibly
[TS]
◼
►
successful desktop products down market
[TS]
◼
►
and mostly failing to do so and that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's the pensioner that's the gap we
[TS]
◼
►
have right now so the obvious
[TS]
◼
►
explanation that I see it for this
[TS]
◼
►
floated rumor about Apple going to Intel
[TS]
◼
►
and this is you know what everyone
[TS]
◼
►
thinks as soon as they see it it's like
[TS]
◼
►
apples not ditching Intel there's
[TS]
◼
►
nothing viable they can move to this is
[TS]
◼
►
just a negotiating ploy so that Apple
[TS]
◼
►
can get good prices out of Intel for its
[TS]
◼
►
next generation of chips or so that
[TS]
◼
►
Apple can influence Intel and say until
[TS]
◼
►
we really want you to do XY and Z and
[TS]
◼
►
make him tell us into them because you
[TS]
◼
►
know they all ride we heard you might go
[TS]
◼
►
to arm don't do that let's kiss and make
[TS]
◼
►
up right ah that's kind of like when
[TS]
◼
►
Apple was talking to Intel for years and
[TS]
◼
►
years when he was shipping powerpc macs
[TS]
◼
►
part of us like oh they're just talking
[TS]
◼
►
to Intel because they're trying to force
[TS]
◼
►
IBM or motorola or whoever was at that
[TS]
◼
►
time to make them the chip that they
[TS]
◼
►
wanted they're not actually going to go
[TS]
◼
►
to Intel but they have to keep talking
[TS]
◼
►
with Intel because otherwise you know
[TS]
◼
►
IBM won't make the g5 for Apple right
[TS]
◼
►
it's all a negotiating ploy
[TS]
◼
►
but the thing is eventually that
[TS]
◼
►
negotiating ploy apparently stopped
[TS]
◼
►
working uh and I've actually did go to
[TS]
◼
►
Intel and so that that type of
[TS]
◼
►
phenomenon over the course of many many
[TS]
◼
►
years could happen here where these arm
[TS]
◼
►
you know bringing the next arm rumor
[TS]
◼
►
keeps getting floated and floated and
[TS]
◼
►
they keep using it is negotiating
[TS]
◼
►
leverage at a certain point until calls
[TS]
◼
►
they're bluffing says you know what
[TS]
◼
►
we've got to take care of our own
[TS]
◼
►
business oh you know we've got to do
[TS]
◼
►
something and yeah the chips were going
[TS]
◼
►
to make are perfectly suited to you but
[TS]
◼
►
you're just gonna have to deal with it
[TS]
◼
►
maybe until it does leave them and go to
[TS]
◼
►
arm and starts up that race again uh I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know final couple closing thoughts
[TS]
◼
►
here yes Intel's market cap is a as of
[TS]
◼
►
the time of a these show notes 1.4
[TS]
◼
►
billion Apple has more cash than that
[TS]
◼
►
like in its bank account at some of its
[TS]
◼
►
long-term you know not not immediately
[TS]
◼
►
liquid or whatever but could Apple by
[TS]
◼
►
Intel probably ever really wanted to if
[TS]
◼
►
you wanted to spend all it's like
[TS]
◼
►
spending you know you get you you save
[TS]
◼
►
money for years and years and years and
[TS]
◼
►
you spend it all in one spot yeah Apple
[TS]
◼
►
could probably try to buy Intel
[TS]
◼
►
antitrust would be a problem there or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever but I don't know of a parolee
[TS]
◼
►
wants to be in that business apple
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't buy like the people who make its
[TS]
◼
►
products it you know contracts it out
[TS]
◼
►
and maybe buys hardware for them and
[TS]
◼
►
funds the development of their thing but
[TS]
◼
►
they don't want to be in the business
[TS]
◼
►
they want someone else to deal with it
[TS]
◼
►
the ugly low-margin part of the business
[TS]
◼
►
they just want the high Martin so I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think apples going to buy Intel ah
[TS]
◼
►
apple's market cap is currently five
[TS]
◼
►
hundred billion and rapidly dropping uh
[TS]
◼
►
because of their stock being slam
[TS]
◼
►
recently but there's this I mean I'm
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I know you're not a stock analysis
[TS]
◼
►
analyst then you won't do an analysis on
[TS]
◼
►
the show but uh is this a good time to
[TS]
◼
►
buy Apple stops I don't know I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
gonna you won't even go into it you
[TS]
◼
►
won't do it I I don't know if it's a
[TS]
◼
►
good time the stock market I don't
[TS]
◼
►
underst no one understands the stock
[TS]
◼
►
market I don't know sorry certainly it's
[TS]
◼
►
better to buy now than it was the by
[TS]
◼
►
Mary was 700 dollars but I don't know I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know I can I don't know why the
[TS]
◼
►
stock is going down I don't know why it
[TS]
◼
►
keeps going down so if you don't know
[TS]
◼
►
that's probably a bad time to buy
[TS]
◼
►
anything if you don't understand what's
[TS]
◼
►
happened I don't understand what's
[TS]
◼
►
happening so I give you know advice
[TS]
◼
►
about whether you should buy it or not
[TS]
◼
►
but so I'll take that as a strong
[TS]
◼
►
recommendation to buy
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but anyway that's okay that's the
[TS]
◼
►
situation Apple is in I don't think it
[TS]
◼
►
can feasibly go to arm CPUs in its max
[TS]
◼
►
unless it dedicates a huge amount of
[TS]
◼
►
money and time over the course of the
[TS]
◼
►
next several years to coming up with
[TS]
◼
►
something that can compete with intel
[TS]
◼
►
intel has its own problems because many
[TS]
◼
►
many more mobile cpus are being bought
[TS]
◼
►
then desktop CPUs and that ratio keeps
[TS]
◼
►
getting worse and worse for them so
[TS]
◼
►
intel has to get into the mobile space
[TS]
◼
►
somehow it seems to me though that these
[TS]
◼
►
two forces should lead to an arrangement
[TS]
◼
►
whereby Apple and Intel's interests
[TS]
◼
►
become aligned at some point until once
[TS]
◼
►
in the mobile space Apple wants
[TS]
◼
►
processors a certain way Apple talks to
[TS]
◼
►
Intel eventually they come to some sort
[TS]
◼
►
of agreement and this arm stuff is just
[TS]
◼
►
noise right but on the other hand like
[TS]
◼
►
you know Bob Mansfield coming back and
[TS]
◼
►
have big plans for the semiconductor
[TS]
◼
►
division or whatever it could just be
[TS]
◼
►
good business just like it was good
[TS]
◼
►
business to constantly be talking with
[TS]
◼
►
Intel and constantly be having that
[TS]
◼
►
version of you know Mac OS 10 for Intel
[TS]
◼
►
in the labs or whatever it's probably
[TS]
◼
►
good business for Apple to at least
[TS]
◼
►
investigate what would it take to get an
[TS]
◼
►
arm CPU design they'll be competitive
[TS]
◼
►
with Intel and how many years would it
[TS]
◼
►
take how much money would it take and
[TS]
◼
►
let's let's have that project and that's
[TS]
◼
►
also consider how much would it take if
[TS]
◼
►
we just paid Intel to make our chips for
[TS]
◼
►
us and can we convince in tell toofab
[TS]
◼
►
our stuff at 22 nanometers can Apple
[TS]
◼
►
itself invest enough money to suddenly
[TS]
◼
►
match Intel's ability to fab chips you
[TS]
◼
►
know and their expertise probably not
[TS]
◼
►
like many options are on the table but i
[TS]
◼
►
think this this entire story at this
[TS]
◼
►
point is like this is something to watch
[TS]
◼
►
in the same way that you should have
[TS]
◼
►
been watching those silly rumors about
[TS]
◼
►
Apple talking to Intel or talking to AMD
[TS]
◼
►
for years and years and years before
[TS]
◼
►
they actually did the switch it's like
[TS]
◼
►
it's easy to dismiss that stuff but i
[TS]
◼
►
think it's it's good idea just keep an
[TS]
◼
►
eye on that because Apple has many
[TS]
◼
►
options here and none of them are really
[TS]
◼
►
that good and same with Intel they have
[TS]
◼
►
many options and not really that good
[TS]
◼
►
either but I think what I think is that
[TS]
◼
►
eventually if Apple and Intel keep going
[TS]
◼
►
along the current path their interest
[TS]
◼
►
will be sufficiently aligned such that
[TS]
◼
►
they will become be able to come to some
[TS]
◼
►
mutually beneficial agreement that will
[TS]
◼
►
not involve Apple 100% jilting them and
[TS]
◼
►
making its own arm processors ah because
[TS]
◼
►
I think that is a really really tall
[TS]
◼
►
order and the biggest thing against it
[TS]
◼
►
tells still ahead of everyone by a
[TS]
◼
►
generation and processed note if that
[TS]
◼
►
changes if suddenly everyone else
[TS]
◼
►
catches up the Intel and Apple can get
[TS]
◼
►
its chips fabbed at the same size as
[TS]
◼
►
Intel can then that's a whole new
[TS]
◼
►
ballgame but like I said for years and
[TS]
◼
►
years intel has been ahead and it seems
[TS]
◼
►
to be a sustainable advantage on their
[TS]
◼
►
on their part and they invest tremendous
[TS]
◼
►
amount of money billions billions of
[TS]
◼
►
dollars into maintaining that advantage
[TS]
◼
►
very few other companies have the kind
[TS]
◼
►
of money to invest in that or the
[TS]
◼
►
expertise or the people Apple probably
[TS]
◼
►
has the money but probably doesn't have
[TS]
◼
►
the expertise and I don't think they can
[TS]
◼
►
hire away all of them tells people so
[TS]
◼
►
I'll let us say keep watching this space
[TS]
◼
►
but for now don't worry next year's crop
[TS]
◼
►
of max will not have ARM processors in
[TS]
◼
►
them or at least all the moon anyway
[TS]
◼
►
maybe one of them will who knows but
[TS]
◼
►
yeah don't hold your breath all right
[TS]
◼
►
even if you say so I say so pretty good
[TS]
◼
►
argument it's not much of an argument
[TS]
◼
►
there little background and then an area
[TS]
◼
►
to watch do you expect on arm max next
[TS]
◼
►
year not next year ner max a single
[TS]
◼
►
pilot program arm Mac and experimental
[TS]
◼
►
one just one nothing behind the scenes
[TS]
◼
►
behind closed doors I'm sure but you
[TS]
◼
►
know here if you think about what
[TS]
◼
►
everything that Apple has done as far as
[TS]
◼
►
wanting to control their own destiny the
[TS]
◼
►
move to Intel is in large part so that
[TS]
◼
►
they could have more control that was
[TS]
◼
►
the whole issue that they had with power
[TS]
◼
►
pc chips is they could never get
[TS]
◼
►
anything fast they switched until they
[TS]
◼
►
get the day get the fast stuff right and
[TS]
◼
►
not so much because they controlled
[TS]
◼
►
Intel but just because Intel's interest
[TS]
◼
►
was to make the best jede falsche stuff
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right and so now they were never
[TS]
◼
►
second leg Intel Intel will you please
[TS]
◼
►
make us good desktop making good desktop
[TS]
◼
►
processors right we can't let the big
[TS]
◼
►
them right but now it's getting to the
[TS]
◼
►
point where Apple's like Intel please
[TS]
◼
►
like I know you want to make these
[TS]
◼
►
processors but we need very very
[TS]
◼
►
specific things we want to retina
[TS]
◼
►
display can you build in the GPU can
[TS]
◼
►
drive a Retina display all this noise
[TS]
◼
►
i'm on the intel HD graphics 3000 just
[TS]
◼
►
barely or 4000 we're just barely can
[TS]
◼
►
drive a Retina display but we totally
[TS]
◼
►
reten everywhere can you please make
[TS]
◼
►
your in ship GPU better and was like I
[TS]
◼
►
know that's not really all not a
[TS]
◼
►
priority for us right now yeah so
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly Apple's having to beg Intel a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit but yeah going away from
[TS]
◼
►
power pc is like finally we don't the
[TS]
◼
►
beggining one for a CBO they they still
[TS]
◼
►
by the way i will use the opportunity to
[TS]
◼
►
get as much leverage as I possibly could
[TS]
◼
►
an Intel like you know until is gonna
[TS]
◼
►
make chips just for us and we have a
[TS]
◼
►
site member they made that crazy shrink
[TS]
◼
►
version for the original macbook air
[TS]
◼
►
like they got Intel to make like a
[TS]
◼
►
custom chip just for them it's like a
[TS]
◼
►
jam a cpu I think it was the original
[TS]
◼
►
macbook air like Apple has been using
[TS]
◼
►
its leverage like you know at first it
[TS]
◼
►
was like don't you want us we're like a
[TS]
◼
►
trophy brand you can say your stuff is
[TS]
◼
►
in Apple CPUs and then it was like oh we
[TS]
◼
►
sell a lot of intel cpus and your other
[TS]
◼
►
you know and now it's like apples like
[TS]
◼
►
you know how you have any idea how many
[TS]
◼
►
mobile cpus we sell if you want any part
[TS]
◼
►
of that business ever you better listen
[TS]
◼
►
to us I know you're not getting any of
[TS]
◼
►
it now but someday you know talk to us
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you can convince us to change all
[TS]
◼
►
of our iphones and ipads and iOS devices
[TS]
◼
►
to x86 if you've ever maked these an x86
[TS]
◼
►
chip you know like the negotiations are
[TS]
◼
►
getting more strained between those two
[TS]
◼
►
companies but i have to think that
[TS]
◼
►
eventually they will their heads will
[TS]
◼
►
come together and we'll get something
[TS]
◼
►
good out of this well let's say you know
[TS]
◼
►
what I mean I think Apple like you said
[TS]
◼
►
Apple would be thrilled if Intel would
[TS]
◼
►
just do that kind of thing but then each
[TS]
◼
►
if you think about it each of the things
[TS]
◼
►
that Apple relies on for from other
[TS]
◼
►
vendors that it doesn't control that it
[TS]
◼
►
feels that it's like there's this rumor
[TS]
◼
►
that just came out that the new imacs
[TS]
◼
►
are going to be delayed because of a
[TS]
◼
►
welding issue this is something that
[TS]
◼
►
Apple pretty much can can control so
[TS]
◼
►
that's their fault but if they can't get
[TS]
◼
►
enough screens you know that that that's
[TS]
◼
►
got a bug now we can't get enough
[TS]
◼
►
screens if they can't get a cpu that's
[TS]
◼
►
gonna do what they want if they can't
[TS]
◼
►
offload graphics to the cpu the way that
[TS]
◼
►
they want these are things that you
[TS]
◼
►
would think apple's gonna say well we've
[TS]
◼
►
got some money let's let's just do this
[TS]
◼
►
ourselves I don't like that they want to
[TS]
◼
►
mean Samsung as we haven't you mentioned
[TS]
◼
►
like they don't want to pay Samsung now
[TS]
◼
►
to make all the ASIC cpus and they're
[TS]
◼
►
like that's why they've been pulling
[TS]
◼
►
this stuff in-house like we don't know
[TS]
◼
►
I'm Jack may be five we want to make a
[TS]
◼
►
custom design ship and we want to be
[TS]
◼
►
able to pay anyone to fab
[TS]
◼
►
think the ax is not just being fat by
[TS]
◼
►
sams I may be wrong about this but yeah
[TS]
◼
►
but paying Samsung to make your cpu's
[TS]
◼
►
that's bad Samsung is the only other
[TS]
◼
►
person making money in the smartphone
[TS]
◼
►
market you don't want to be paying them
[TS]
◼
►
any money so yeah I can imagine Apple
[TS]
◼
►
wanting to go elsewhere for that
[TS]
◼
►
expertise but like they can't just they
[TS]
◼
►
can't just leave Samsung immediately
[TS]
◼
►
there's a certain you know can you get
[TS]
◼
►
what Samsung gives you from someone else
[TS]
◼
►
at the same price and if the answer is
[TS]
◼
►
no you got to grit your teeth and keep
[TS]
◼
►
going to Samsung all the while Sam we
[TS]
◼
►
got to have a plan to get away from
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung like wooden tap beloved oocyte
[TS]
◼
►
pleat like if Apple can get in tell
[TS]
◼
►
toofab the a7 in its best process node
[TS]
◼
►
at that time that would be a humongous
[TS]
◼
►
victory but it is not an Intel strategic
[TS]
◼
►
interest to become like a fab four other
[TS]
◼
►
people ship designs right so the you
[TS]
◼
►
know most in need to come together on
[TS]
◼
►
something we want we want your
[TS]
◼
►
technology we don't want your chips then
[TS]
◼
►
tells like we want to sell our chips
[TS]
◼
►
because becoming a fab is a low-margin
[TS]
◼
►
business and we get much better margins
[TS]
◼
►
by making our own you know so I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know this I would love to beat see these
[TS]
◼
►
negotiations because they're happening
[TS]
◼
►
now like what is the a7 gonna be who's
[TS]
◼
►
gonna make it and where is it going to
[TS]
◼
►
be shipped like maybe that maybe it's
[TS]
◼
►
too late for those and those discussions
[TS]
◼
►
have already taken place right but for
[TS]
◼
►
the one after that for the a8 and for
[TS]
◼
►
any possible like arm and Intel arm and
[TS]
◼
►
Max type negotiations those have to be
[TS]
◼
►
happening now like we need a plan we
[TS]
◼
►
need to talk to people we know what we
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to do we don't want to give
[TS]
◼
►
Samsung any more money and we also don't
[TS]
◼
►
want to use any of the chips that
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's currently offering us because
[TS]
◼
►
they're way too power hungry we want ra8
[TS]
◼
►
design manufactured in the best
[TS]
◼
►
manufacturing process in the entire
[TS]
◼
►
world uh at a really cheap price and
[TS]
◼
►
Intel doesn't want that they want
[TS]
◼
►
something different so yeah those they
[TS]
◼
►
need to come together on something but I
[TS]
◼
►
you know the only the only way i can
[TS]
◼
►
imagine apple going full split off is if
[TS]
◼
►
they have like a concrete plan where
[TS]
◼
►
they really believe that they can make a
[TS]
◼
►
line of max that is not embarrassingly
[TS]
◼
►
slower or crappier than what they would
[TS]
◼
►
have been if they had intel cpus and
[TS]
◼
►
intel is going to do everything in its
[TS]
◼
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power to make sure that apple doesn't
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never even thinks that's possible like
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they just need to make apple like so
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despair for their ability to match intel
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cpu so they won't even attempt it
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because I until will show them their
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roadmap and say you're never going to
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it's gonna compete with this look at
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this do you this is art this is our road
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map that's what they did to get apples
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business they said yeah current line of
[TS]
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CPUs suck but look at this upcoming lot
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of core processors they are awesome they
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are really fast they're low power and
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that was all true and Intel delivered on
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that commitment like they you know back
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then was like why doesn't happen with
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AMD don't they make better CPUs and
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stuff but Intel shows in their roadmap
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Apple said fine you're going to make
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that then go make that and Intel did go
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make that and until makes amazing CPUs
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that powered you know you know decades
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worth of great intel macs or ever many
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years has been but now we're coming to
[TS]
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that point again and so intel does have
[TS]
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credibility here they come to apple and
[TS]
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say look yeah don't even think about
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trying to make your arm cpus can you
[TS]
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compete with this you can't match us
[TS]
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just you know we need to come to an
[TS]
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agreement here don't even try you're
[TS]
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gonna you're gonna spend billions and
[TS]
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►
billions of dollars and it's not gonna
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►
work out for you just look out what
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happened to AMD we crush them don't even
[TS]
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attempt it but we're friends let's be
[TS]
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friends business it's like war but with
[TS]
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money keep your friends close enemies
[TS]
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closer yes and your frenemies i don't
[TS]
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know where you keep them but like I
[TS]
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guess somewhere in the middle all right
[TS]
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even wrap this up think we're done all
[TS]
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right so you can go to five by five TV
[TS]
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►
such hypercritical sash 94 and you will
[TS]
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get they will get all of the notes and
[TS]
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links that jon is put there you can
[TS]
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learn about sisk and risk on other
[TS]
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things you can follow John on Twitter he
[TS]
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is siracusa s I RAC USA USA and I'm damn
[TS]
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Benjamin on Twitter he is also on Alpha
[TS]
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app.net at Siracusa I'm Dan over there
[TS]
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and I guess I said you don't wanted me
[TS]
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►
to talk about the other one cuz you're
[TS]
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not using I used tent that is 10 thought
[TS]
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I oh whatever I do all right so he's
[TS]
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Syracuse over there too we appreciate
[TS]
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you listening if you would like you can
[TS]
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rate the show in iTunes you can
[TS]
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►
visit the sponsors it's a wonderful way
[TS]
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to help support the show in the hood
[TS]
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network we thank you very much for
[TS]
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listening and John will see next week
[TS]