Hypercritical

92: The Tim Cook Era

 

  this is hypercritical weekly talk show [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect that it can't be complained [TS]

  about by my friend and yours John [TS]

  siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin today is [TS]

  Friday November second 2012 episode [TS]

  number 92 far beloved hypercritical we [TS]

  would like to say thanks very much to [TS]

  our three sponsors for making this [TS]

  program possible Shopify com lynda.com [TS]

  and shutterstock.com we also want to [TS]

  thank so much new band was sponsor for [TS]

  month november my note and into dove my [TS]

  mapping app for mac and iOS whether [TS]

  you're brainstorming for your next [TS]

  project organizing your life planning [TS]

  your vacation no matter minor lets you [TS]

  collect structured expand your ideas god [TS]

  I'd cloud sharing built-in have your [TS]

  mind maps with you wherever you go check [TS]

  them out at mind node dot-com good [TS]

  afternoon hello how are you doing this [TS]

  fine day how is the weather how is your [TS]

  power situation how are things holding [TS]

  up in the Northeast uh everything's fine [TS]

  here there we never even lost power I [TS]

  noticed that your you're sort of [TS]

  grandstanding a little bit uh by talking [TS]

  about how your your kids were playing [TS]

  through all sorts of video games and [TS]

  like grandstanding well yeah we've got [TS]

  power that kind of thing showboating is [TS]

  that a better word I don't think either [TS]

  one of those are proprio k and no I did [TS]

  a lot some trees down in the [TS]

  neighborhood but nothing bad happened to [TS]

  my house and we didn't lose power good [TS]

  was that the topic of the building to [TS]

  analyze you talked about New York [TS]

  whether things did you not listen I did [TS]

  not listen I intentionally did not some [TS]

  Hall uh I will go on record and say I'm [TS]

  prepared to be surprised but I think we [TS]

  covered every possible topic you could [TS]

  possibly cover if it has to do with [TS]

  anything that's happened in the last [TS]

  couple weeks well that's why I didn't [TS]

  listen because you know I assumed there [TS]

  was going to be [TS]

  lots of overlap and it's much easier for [TS]

  me to talk about them it you know [TS]

  without feeling self-conscious if I [TS]

  hadn't actually heard what other people [TS]

  said so hmm well Marcos and my entire [TS]

  goal of the show was to cover every [TS]

  topic that you could possibly bring up I [TS]

  think we did it high five all right well [TS]

  but I didn't hear it I know that's all [TS]

  right now this is all new to me and you [TS]

  have to you know do the little men and [TS]

  black Mindwipe things so that you can [TS]

  now come to these topics again fresh cuz [TS]

  you gotta do both shows yeah and I did [TS]

  the frequency new show this morning so I [TS]

  this will be my third current events [TS]

  show today that's right well like each [TS]

  time you feel like you're getting closer [TS]

  to the truth of the matter right now [TS]

  that no absolute I feel like if there's [TS]

  any doubt about getting to the heart of [TS]

  the matter by the end of this show will [TS]

  have definitely done it here yeah let me [TS]

  just get my I didn't think you would [TS]

  actually finish so soon and since I [TS]

  wasn't listening I didn't know when [TS]

  you're gonna end let me just get mine [TS]

  I'd hate to keep you waiting I've [TS]

  learned my lesson you've not learned [TS]

  your lesson I have learned it you [TS]

  learned nothing I learned something but [TS]

  not much does it ever occurred to you [TS]

  Dan you like that movie I don't see that [TS]

  a long time well it's a very good [TS]

  Halloween movie matter to you all your [TS]

  point the owners place their complete [TS]

  confidence and trust in me that I've [TS]

  signed a letter of agreement a contract [TS]

  you're so obsessed with that one little [TS]

  passage that one scene it now like when [TS]

  I watch it again it'll be it'll be a [TS]

  letdown ya know he does that's not how [TS]

  Dan does it he must want some dude trust [TS]

  me he does it better all right let's see [TS]

  what we got here we all said that [TS]

  already gotta get my chat windows [TS]

  arranged so I can see all the people all [TS]

  other people who kept mentioning me [TS]

  during the chat and I was trying to [TS]

  ignore them know he resized my window [TS]

  from the top see see what happens did [TS]

  you find a stranger in the alps like i [TS]

  did that thing where you try to move the [TS]

  though and you accidentally grabbed it [TS]

  accidentally grabbed the top edge of it [TS]

  yeah and cited now my windows the wrong [TS]

  side ah there's no one do for window [TS]

  resizing I just burned the computer to [TS]

  the ground now start all over [TS]

  alright I have a lot of notes you're on [TS]

  fire today very disorganized I like this [TS]

  this new siracusa same old all right [TS]

  follow up let's dive in dive in all [TS]

  right on the last show we discussed the [TS]

  Microsoft Surface a bit and has it [TS]

  relates to the ipad mini both of which [TS]

  came out around the same time or [TS]

  announced 11 ship timon was announced [TS]

  and at one point we're discussing [TS]

  storage sizes and how the mini comes in [TS]

  16 but the smallest surface is 32 and [TS]

  I'd mentioned that someone said [TS]

  something about the OS on the surface [TS]

  taking up like 12 gigabytes so that 32 [TS]

  gig model really you only got 20 left [TS]

  after everything's in there so Karsten [TS]

  sills and a couple of that people wrote [TS]

  in with more concrete numbers on how [TS]

  much room is taken up this is pulled [TS]

  from the anon tech review of Windows RT [TS]

  and the surface and all that stuff link [TS]

  is in the show notes and on says that [TS]

  between 6.5 and 7.5 gigabytes are taken [TS]

  up with the OS and then another 750 to [TS]

  850 megabytes for office which comes [TS]

  with the thing so it's not 12 total [TS]

  taken up I said it he had about 25 gigs [TS]

  left on a 32 gig surface not much [TS]

  alright no no that's actually wrongly [TS]

  said it said 25 gigs have started to [TS]

  start with so after Windows and Office [TS]

  well it's 17 gigs left for programs and [TS]

  documents ah sorry the general idea that [TS]

  the OS and office take up a lot of room [TS]

  on the shipping service is true and [TS]

  that's probably why like on a 16 if you [TS]

  had seven or eight dedicated to that [TS]

  then it's down to like 10 you know [TS]

  anyway the general idea that the surface [TS]

  software takes up more room than does [TS]

  the ipad is still valid but the numbers [TS]

  from last week were incorrect and [TS]

  according to non tech these are the [TS]

  numbers he actually saw on his devices [TS]

  something else from last week discussing [TS]

  and now we're I guess we're talking [TS]

  about new hardware or maybe in the past [TS]

  about the macbook pro screens where [TS]

  they're fusing the glass to the display [TS]

  for the retina right models [TS]

  as opposed to having an LCD panel and [TS]

  then like a small air gap and then just [TS]

  like a piece of glass so that I was [TS]

  saying if you you know dropped your keys [TS]

  on your screen or scratched it or [TS]

  something you haven't actually scratched [TS]

  the screen with the old way you could [TS]

  just replace the glass on the front and [TS]

  the LCD panel itself is protected by [TS]

  this sacrificial glass and they're not [TS]

  fused together apparently even on those [TS]

  old models where it had the piece of [TS]

  glass and then the screen if you were to [TS]

  do that like scratch it up or and get a [TS]

  thing replaced they always replaced it [TS]

  as a single module anyway like they [TS]

  replaced the screen and the glass at the [TS]

  same time that's that's from stephen [TS]

  hackett on twitter and then Thomas brand [TS]

  on Twitter explained it because I asked [TS]

  why why would they why wouldn't they [TS]

  just replace the glass he said it's [TS]

  because the glass is glued to the lid [TS]

  and the two can't be removed without [TS]

  heat and so they don't do that repair in [TS]

  the Apple stores you know in the back [TS]

  room with like a heat gun or whatever [TS]

  it's just like they just sorry just give [TS]

  them a whole new thing so that's why [TS]

  they replace it as you mentioned I don't [TS]

  know I mean I guess I don't want them [TS]

  removing it or maybe the type of thing [TS]

  where if you use a heat gun to like [TS]

  loosen up the glue and you pull it out [TS]

  like it's never the same again and it'll [TS]

  never get glued back right so they just [TS]

  replace it as a unit and finally on the [TS]

  topic also from Twitter Tanner Silva [TS]

  said that he got his screen replaced on [TS]

  his 15-inch retina MacBook Pro and the [TS]

  total cost was eight hundred and [TS]

  forty-six dollars hmm so not cheap be [TS]

  careful with those screens on the topic [TS]

  of the imac the new iMac which we [TS]

  discussed last time we were talking [TS]

  about why is that chin still there that [TS]

  why doesn't just look like you know the [TS]

  monitor the chinky smaller and [TS]

  de-emphasize but is still there it's got [TS]

  the apple logo on the front of it which [TS]

  seems weird for Apple who's on their iOS [TS]

  devices any not all about shoving the [TS]

  apple logo in your face but here on the [TS]

  imac berries do it and what was your [TS]

  speculation as to why laughing seemed [TS]

  like just to differentiate it from being [TS]

  a monitor and just to make it more clear [TS]

  that it's a computer right and the chin [TS]

  has been de-emphasized a couple theories [TS]

  about why the tuna there some people [TS]

  said this stuff in the chin i said [TS]

  they're like there's nothing in the chin [TS]

  there is stuff in the chin you know like [TS]

  the ram and the speakers and stuff like [TS]

  that but I mean that stuff could all fit [TS]

  behind monitor like maybe they couldn't [TS]

  have a five millimeter edge on the [TS]

  bottom if that was the case but it's not [TS]

  like it's not like there's not room [TS]

  behind [TS]

  giant monitor for all the pieces of the [TS]

  imac but a couple of other theories from [TS]

  this one from jack / on twitter and a [TS]

  couple other people had similar feedback [TS]

  is that there's stuff behind the apple [TS]

  logo on the front of the thing he says [TS]

  that the bluetooth antenna is there we [TS]

  just got to have somewhere working radio [TS]

  signal out and so if it's trapped inside [TS]

  this metal case hmm if you can't get [TS]

  through the screen you know cuz the [TS]

  screen will be blocking the signal so we [TS]

  can't get back out the back because [TS]

  that's metal you need some sort of radio [TS]

  transparent region on the case for the [TS]

  signals come out and I think someone [TS]

  else said that they thought the Wi-Fi [TS]

  stuff was in there so using it as a [TS]

  window for a wireless stuff I think [TS]

  that's happened before on iOS devices it [TS]

  was in the apple logo on one of the [TS]

  iphones used for like or maybe was the [TS]

  ipad i did they put wireless stuff in [TS]

  behind the apple logo I didn't I didn't [TS]

  I don't recall that but I bet you're [TS]

  right and we well I yeah I don't [TS]

  remember I know they had like that the [TS]

  3g model always has the plastic stripe [TS]

  on the ipad and that's like oh you know [TS]

  the non 3g one doesn't have that then [TS]

  the question okay on the non 3g one [TS]

  where you don't have the big plastic [TS]

  stripe on the top where does the Wi-Fi [TS]

  come out of in the answer to that i [TS]

  think was at some point in the past if [TS]

  it's not currently true the plastic [TS]

  apple logo so there you go so maybe [TS]

  that's one of the reasons they keep that [TS]

  stuff in there it's just kind of like [TS]

  well we got a place for the stuff again [TS]

  no reason they couldn't just get rid of [TS]

  the chin and make a little stripe of [TS]

  plastic on the bottom edge that you [TS]

  wouldn't see that would take care of [TS]

  that for them uh one more from Michael [TS]

  stark we were talking about the thing [TS]

  where the iPad Mini is supposed to [TS]

  ignore your thumb when you're just [TS]

  holding it and supposed to know like is [TS]

  he trying to use his thumb to use the [TS]

  device or just holding it there to [TS]

  happen to go over the edge because the [TS]

  border on the left and right side is [TS]

  there a term for that that whole process [TS]

  what the process of ignoring it yeah the [TS]

  the is there like a term for that [TS]

  phenomenon of you have your thumb on the [TS]

  device and we are going to ignore it [TS]

  well there's a bunch of events in Cocoa [TS]

  this is not from this piece of feedback [TS]

  from other stuff that didn't have time [TS]

  to pull into the notes with attribution [TS]

  that there's a the event system for you [TS]

  I kid has like a bunch of callback [TS]

  events for like you know [TS]

  they are not thumb but I touches our [TS]

  stationary or touches is resting i'm [TS]

  getting these names wrong but there's a [TS]

  bunch of events that are supposed to [TS]

  signal that something is happening in a [TS]

  way that doesn't necessarily indicate [TS]

  input i don't remember the exact names [TS]

  but all of them are they're not names [TS]

  like thumb totally didn't mean it [TS]

  there's no event like they're not [TS]

  they're not ascribing a motivation to [TS]

  the touch they're merely saying you know [TS]

  this touch is stationary or this touch [TS]

  has become stationary then you can [TS]

  decide what policy you want to do based [TS]

  on that I'm sure that's you know part of [TS]

  the mechanism they're using but it's [TS]

  it's part of the public event system but [TS]

  I don't know if there's some larger name [TS]

  for unintentional input but well you [TS]

  brought up the thing on the laptop [TS]

  trackpad so ignore accidental trackpad [TS]

  input yeah that used to have a checkbox [TS]

  like on and off and you know you'd [TS]

  always want that to be off because you [TS]

  put it on it would decide they were just [TS]

  start ignoring you and say oh looks like [TS]

  you're probably just typing on the [TS]

  keyboard and your hand brushed up [TS]

  against the trackpad I'm going to ignore [TS]

  that you and in reality what you've done [TS]

  is changed from typing to quickly move [TS]

  something move the cursor with your [TS]

  thumb and then would ignore it and it [TS]

  was incredibly frustrating uh so Michael [TS]

  Stark tweeted to say that Apple has [TS]

  removed the GUI for that setting I [TS]

  remember you were looking forward in the [TS]

  show yeah you find it nope so there's a [TS]

  tech note that i linked in the a lot of [TS]

  techno did say i don't knowledgebase [TS]

  article from apple's website that i [TS]

  linked in the show notes and it says are [TS]

  you trying to locate the ignore [TS]

  accidental trackpad input trackpad [TS]

  option yes we were trying to look at if [TS]

  you're trying to locate it on your [TS]

  macbook macbook pro or macbook air [TS]

  computer with a multi-touch trackpad [TS]

  that preference is no longer there and [TS]

  that functionality to ignore excel [TS]

  inputs is enabled automatically by [TS]

  default for these devices i think the [TS]

  reason that it no longer bothers us is [TS]

  because the old track pads that had that [TS]

  option were not multi-touch i don't know [TS]

  how many touch they sense maybe they [TS]

  only sent two or whatever but they [TS]

  weren't like the current glass trackpad [TS]

  switch to probably do five points 10 [TS]

  points i don't even know how many points [TS]

  that multi-touch they do but there was [TS]

  like a dividing line between the the [TS]

  quote-unquote non multi-touch trackpad [TS]

  even though i think they can handle more [TS]

  than one touch and then the multi-touch [TS]

  ones and it's much easier to figure out [TS]

  what's intentional from unintentional if [TS]

  you can sense all the sort of things [TS]

  that are touching where you know versus [TS]

  a trackpad that can only sense one or [TS]

  two points of touching and it has to [TS]

  decide which one of those is the real [TS]

  one so if you accidentally brushed up [TS]

  against a non multi-touch trackpad with [TS]

  like five fingers the hardware is only [TS]

  going to send like two of those to the [TS]

  device and it's got to figure out what's [TS]

  going on so it seems that once they went [TS]

  to multi-touch now they have enough [TS]

  information from all the touches and a [TS]

  much more sensitive touch interface to [TS]

  be able to turn that policy on by [TS]

  default so they can better determine [TS]

  what's accidental so that I guess [TS]

  probably bodes well for the the iPad [TS]

  minis implementation of this if we hit [TS]

  both of us didn't even notice that this [TS]

  is now on by default on on laptop track [TS]

  pads and the multi-touch error right did [TS]

  you get before we get off that topic did [TS]

  you get your ipad mini yet I know you [TS]

  just said it was like on its way through [TS]

  the distribution center blah blah blah [TS]

  you've been tracking an effect right it [TS]

  is on fedex vehicle for delivery [TS]

  delivering to our you corporate [TS]

  headquarters UPS store so it will be [TS]

  here at some point today it's not been [TS]

  delivered yet they say by 3pm i believe [TS]

  them so i will have it sometime later [TS]

  today I'm sure all right it's not going [TS]

  to arrive while record it will not test [TS]

  no even if it is delivered that's not [TS]

  here so no chance no chance all right [TS]

  first sponsor good idea I mean why not [TS]

  right Shopify calm hosted e-commerce [TS]

  solution allows you to set up and run [TS]

  your own online store in minutes they [TS]

  say minutes i say moments you just pick [TS]

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  the HTML and CSS there's no bandwidth [TS]

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  they handle redundancy failover [TS]

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  and they're pci level one pci DSS [TS]

  compliant totally secure all you need is [TS]

  something to sell special URL Shopify [TS]

  calm / 5 x 5 first of all just go there [TS]

  and check out what they have to offer [TS]

  look at their examples page look at what [TS]

  you can build a lot of the sites that [TS]

  you're already using when you go and you [TS]

  buy stuff there Shopify sites and you [TS]

  have no idea because they look exactly [TS]

  like the site that you were you're at [TS]

  good example this is the book apart site [TS]

  that's all Shopify look how they've [TS]

  handled it look how they've stopped it [TS]

  Shopify com such five by five you get [TS]

  three months free instead of just our [TS]

  usual 30 days free go check them out [TS]

  support the show thanks very much for to [TS]

  them for making show possible all right [TS]

  ready yeah before we get off the topic [TS]

  of the apple logo chin thing yes on [TS]

  Twitter like Michael ago Mike the goat [TS]

  he says they do it in a goat voice yeah [TS]

  I can't duck into a goat okay yeah this [TS]

  is this piece of feedback was also sent [TS]

  by a lot of people but he's good to [TS]

  remind us of that it's not just [TS]

  bluetooth and Wi-Fi also the IR think [TS]

  maybe we forget that these things have [TS]

  you know I are now that they don't come [TS]

  with your remote anymore I don't think I [TS]

  think I stopped shipping that remote but [TS]

  at one point they shipped a little [TS]

  cruddy plastic remote that's stuck to [TS]

  the side of the imac with a magnet [TS]

  remember that yeah there's a that was [TS]

  funny little little white plastic and it [TS]

  had the little I'm an infrared remote [TS]

  band across the top of it yeah chiku [TS]

  things but anyway the n ir receiver [TS]

  obviously has to be its line of sight so [TS]

  you can't just put the little strip on [TS]

  the back but i still have full [TS]

  confidence that Apple could find a place [TS]

  to hide the IR receiver like behind the [TS]

  black border of this screen or something [TS]

  you know like it doesn't I don't think [TS]

  it has to necessarily be Annapolis it's [TS]

  not like they have to keep the apple [TS]

  logo just for the IR think there's [TS]

  plenty of other front-facing things for [TS]

  example they have a front facing camera [TS]

  on these things and they're pretty darn [TS]

  good at hiding that one doesn't that you [TS]

  know our receivers don't have to be the [TS]

  size of the apple logo they can be those [TS]

  little tiny things all right I'm sure [TS]

  you talked about this on build and [TS]

  analyze this week someone in the chat [TS]

  room just asked about it but this week [TS]

  Disney purchase Lucasfilm and i'm sure [TS]

  people want to hear what I have to say [TS]

  about that [TS]

  as it happens I beat marco to the punch [TS]

  on this and i did an hour-long episode [TS]

  of being comparable it was episode 114 [TS]

  titled when you wish upon a star wars i [TS]

  will put that into the show notes it's [TS]

  already there a little oh no oh no yes [TS]

  yeah so people who want to hear what I [TS]

  have to say about the Star Wars stuff [TS]

  that episode is already sitting in [TS]

  itunes for you just go over to your [TS]

  incomparable fee but you all subscribe [TS]

  to write and pull up when you wish upon [TS]

  a star wars and you can hear all about [TS]

  it ah and now I don't have to talk about [TS]

  it in the show because I have lots of [TS]

  other things to discuss unless there's [TS]

  any specific thing that you need to know [TS]

  I don't know if you listen to that [TS]

  something horrible but is there anything [TS]

  specific that you're dying to know about [TS]

  my take on the Lucas stuff there are [TS]

  lots of things and I recommend this show [TS]

  I recommend this episode of the show I'm [TS]

  not done listening to it yet but [TS]

  intentionally because I wanted to be [TS]

  somewhat surprised for for you on your [TS]

  responses and things on this show the [TS]

  main question I think that folks have [TS]

  you we have talked which which episode [TS]

  did we discuss George Lucas and what he [TS]

  has done to Star Wars let me see if do [TS]

  you remember the episode number no I [TS]

  never remember the episode numbers in [TS]

  fact I was trying to find episode [TS]

  numbers for like when we talked about [TS]

  Windows 8 and I had difficulty even [TS]

  finding madam I'm doing a bad job for [TS]

  Star Wars is not a blog post that sounds [TS]

  likely the People vs George Lucas yeah [TS]

  that was probably is that the one okay [TS]

  so this is episode number 45 of this [TS]

  show let's see then there was another [TS]

  one yeah that's it so I'll put that and [TS]

  I'm pretty sure that's it i'll put that [TS]

  in the show notes is first my first [TS]

  question for you is is this a good thing [TS]

  or a bad thing not because there's a [TS]

  that's a loaded question first of all [TS]

  you have George Lucas stepping back [TS]

  stepping away and other people coming in [TS]

  to do things with Star Wars first of all [TS]

  second of all the announcement that [TS]

  there will be new Star Wars movies [TS]

  coming out every three or four days [TS]

  there'll be a new Star Wars movie made [TS]

  is that a good thing or a bad thing what [TS]

  are your thoughts on this [TS]

  as I said I mean comparable I think this [TS]

  is a good thing completely a good thing [TS]

  uh I always assumed that we'd have to [TS]

  wait for George Lucas to die right [TS]

  before well we all hoped that wouldn't [TS]

  come to that but we answer that was that [TS]

  was the assumption that he would have to [TS]

  die before anyone would be able to start [TS]

  fixing things because he was such a [TS]

  control freak about it when you know [TS]

  yadon but he was able he was able to [TS]

  give it up and that's good and it's good [TS]

  because it frees star wars from is his [TS]

  control he had such strict control over [TS]

  the the prequels and they were so [TS]

  terrible being free of that control is [TS]

  great because it gives other people more [TS]

  talented people younger people hungry [TS]

  people a crack at the franchise so I [TS]

  think I think it's a good thing it gives [TS]

  us a chance to possibly have the [TS]

  unadulterated versions of the movies be [TS]

  released all sorts of things that you [TS]

  know all the dissatisfaction that star [TS]

  wars fans have had with the franchise [TS]

  all that potentially is cured by [TS]

  bringing the franchise elsewhere so I [TS]

  give I give it a thumbs up and I'm happy [TS]

  and optimistic about what will happen it [TS]

  could very well be that some terrible [TS]

  things come out of that this terrible [TS]

  television program is more terrible [TS]

  movies but the fact that it's out of [TS]

  control that one person means that lie [TS]

  so it so you make some bad ones give [TS]

  someone else a chance they can make some [TS]

  good ones there's lots of things you can [TS]

  do with the star wars franchise and now [TS]

  that things like the movies which are [TS]

  like okay well you can make you know [TS]

  expanded universe novels and video games [TS]

  and stuff like that but George Lucas is [TS]

  the guy who says okay for the movies [TS]

  like those were you know now now it's [TS]

  not gated by one guy's whims like George [TS]

  Lucas didn't feel like doing Star Wars [TS]

  movie for a decade or two there was no [TS]

  Star Wars movies for decades that snot [TS]

  gonna happen anymore so I am optimistic [TS]

  and I think it's a good thing I'm very [TS]

  optimistic I think anything that gets [TS]

  this away from George Lucas's personal [TS]

  thoughts and opinions and feelings is it [TS]

  is a good thing I think the further away [TS]

  this is from George Lucas the better I'm [TS]

  grateful that he had the idea for Star [TS]

  Wars and then he was able to execute the [TS]

  star wars empire star [TS]

  back in to some degree that third one so [TS]

  well and good let's get it away from him [TS]

  and let's anything that I I can't [TS]

  believe that they're going to do [TS]

  anything that'll be worse than I think [TS]

  what I think you can make things worse [TS]

  as I said at the end of the maybe I'm [TS]

  just more optimistic as I said at the [TS]

  end of the uncomfortable I I can [TS]

  definitely see movies being worse than [TS]

  the prequels but nothing that they do [TS]

  with the star wars franchise will feel [TS]

  worse than the prequels felt because you [TS]

  know it's not you know the and absolute [TS]

  quality yeah you can make worst movies [TS]

  and that no lots of ways but nothing [TS]

  will feel that bad because we waited so [TS]

  long and just it was inconceivable these [TS]

  movies could be anything other than [TS]

  awesome and they were terrible and it [TS]

  was just the biggest letdown ever now [TS]

  we're all we all bear those emotional [TS]

  scars and have severed our relationship [TS]

  with the franchise in some fashion in [TS]

  order to move on with their lives and [TS]

  now now we're free to enjoy the fruits [TS]

  of other people's Labor's in this [TS]

  universe without the expectations and [TS]

  anticipation that accompanied the [TS]

  prequels mm-hmm all right uh oh yeah it [TS]

  wasn't the incomparable you won't hear [TS]

  more about that I would have probably [TS]

  didn't hit a dollar show to it if we had [TS]

  not had that in copper but we did but so [TS]

  do you feel people should just go and [TS]

  listen that if they if they want in that [TS]

  get leave Z room to stretch out this [TS]

  episode that's right because I grab lots [TS]

  of other things to discuss here so this [TS]

  this next bit is follow-up but kind of [TS]

  also the half topic for this show and [TS]

  that is more about apples fusion drive [TS]

  stuff we talked about last week mostly [TS]

  just speculation because all we had to [TS]

  go on was vague sort of slides in a [TS]

  presentation and a couple of fact I [TS]

  Tamannaah post uh but no nitty-gritty [TS]

  technical details about the thing and [TS]

  last week my guesses were that this was [TS]

  implemented with course storage ah and I [TS]

  mentioned on the show like Korra storage [TS]

  has been around since the lion and you [TS]

  could as of even lion just make two [TS]

  disks and join them together into a [TS]

  single volume and I mentioned I was [TS]

  trying to do a demo like [TS]

  for my lion review but it wasn't quite [TS]

  working i was using disk images and it [TS]

  was really buggy and stuff like that but [TS]

  I that capability has been there in the [TS]

  man page for you know disk your till [TS]

  since 10-7 as I said you can do that [TS]

  today you know just far as I presumably [TS]

  it's less buggy now but I didn't [TS]

  understand how that would how to square [TS]

  that all with course start with uh with [TS]

  fusion drive because fusion drive was [TS]

  always described in terms of like oh and [TS]

  these applications we use them alot will [TS]

  end up on the SSD but this stuff you [TS]

  know they talk about applications and [TS]

  files but course storage works at the [TS]

  block level it's not at the file level [TS]

  so I didn't understand in Mike well [TS]

  course towards just an umbrella term [TS]

  they could have just implemented [TS]

  something new that shuttles files back [TS]

  and forth and works at the file level [TS]

  and even though it's called core storage [TS]

  it's not the same as the you know the [TS]

  block based logical volume manager thing [TS]

  that they use her foul ball to you know [TS]

  we just didn't know because it wasn't [TS]

  enough technical details released well [TS]

  since last week someone named Patrick [TS]

  Stein or jolly jinx on Twitter put up a [TS]

  series of posts on his tumblr where he [TS]

  did just want to describe last week [TS]

  which is all right let me just take [TS]

  course storage disk utility to disks [TS]

  together into a single volume only what [TS]

  he did was he took out my two discs [TS]

  selling a drawing one is going to be an [TS]

  SSD and one is it gonna be spinning disk [TS]

  so I'm making my own fusion drive now [TS]

  the underlying assumption for all these [TS]

  posts is that what he's doing here with [TS]

  disk utility core storage is what fusion [TS]

  drive is uh and unless he has some [TS]

  information that I don't or rather I [TS]

  didn't really before during this week [TS]

  he's just assuming they're like okay [TS]

  well course storage is a fusion drives [TS]

  gotta be done with course storage and [TS]

  many that was my assumption as well and [TS]

  basically more or less got that [TS]

  confirmed from Apple but that doesn't [TS]

  mean anything because like I said core [TS]

  storage could be an umbrella term and so [TS]

  and so forth and the reason I was so [TS]

  skeptical of this being what Fusion [TS]

  Drive is is because like I said [TS]

  everything they described about fusion [TS]

  drive was like oh it moves your files [TS]

  for one place the other all your [TS]

  applications or someplace else it never [TS]

  talked about like you know blocked base [TS]

  wear something you know just the disks [TS]

  blocks that you read or on half on one [TS]

  thing and half on the other like [TS]

  block-based doesn't mean file system [TS]

  blocks like 4k blocks and doesn't mean [TS]

  disk blocks like you know sectors and [TS]

  blocks it means the units of storage [TS]

  that are managed by cora storages [TS]

  logical volume manager and they have [TS]

  nothing to do with file boundaries right [TS]

  there just implementing it a block [TS]

  storage device and the file system goes [TS]

  on top of that but those the core [TS]

  storage blocks it's shuffling around [TS]

  have no idea what files they belong to [TS]

  like you know they could span files and [TS]

  stuff like that that's that they're [TS]

  there just presenting a block device so [TS]

  that didn't seem to square at all with [TS]

  something that moves files and [TS]

  applications around and it certainly [TS]

  didn't square with the idea that as of [TS]

  lying you could make a volume at of two [TS]

  other things and put stuff on it but [TS]

  Korra storage does the thing where I [TS]

  move stuff from one to the other like it [TS]

  reshuffle stuff based on usage in like [TS]

  well surely course storage doesn't do [TS]

  that like why would it be moving stuff [TS]

  back and forth but the thing is as of [TS]

  lime when I was playing with this it [TS]

  there's a couple possibilities one is [TS]

  that back then all core storage did was [TS]

  you know join two physical disks [TS]

  together into a single volume and put [TS]

  some you know some data and one some [TS]

  date on the other but it didn't like [TS]

  move stuff around based on usage that's [TS]

  one possibility the other possibility is [TS]

  that it did move stuff based around [TS]

  based on your usage and I just never [TS]

  noticed because who would have think [TS]

  thought to look for that because like a [TS]

  logical volume manager like that wasn't [TS]

  a selling point it wasn't in the man [TS]

  page four different ill course storage [TS]

  like maybe it was moving stuff and we [TS]

  didn't even know right uh so in this [TS]

  experiment that the Patrick did is he [TS]

  did that he's got the little command [TS]

  lines up here but if you do man disk you [TS]

  till you can look at the core storage [TS]

  section now disk utility s create you [TS]

  know a logical volume group and he makes [TS]

  it out of two disks an SSD in a spinning [TS]

  disk and then he creates a volume on [TS]

  that new you know he's now created what [TS]

  looks like a single disk but has really [TS]

  made up of two physicalist and he [TS]

  creates a volume on and they just says [TS]

  make a volume make a journaled hfs+ make [TS]

  it 500 gigs and this is okay fine now [TS]

  you've got a volume and underneath it [TS]

  are two physical things now the next [TS]

  things he did was he's trying to [TS]

  determine okay is this what fusion disk [TS]

  is so he's using DD and observation of [TS]

  data transfer speeds to say okay I'm [TS]

  going to write enough data where I know [TS]

  this couldn't possibly all fit on the [TS]

  SSD so he write some more you know more [TS]

  than enough data and it's now it should [TS]

  be spilling over into the hard drive and [TS]

  he does a series of experiments with [TS]

  reads and writes of files [TS]

  and if he gets like you know 200 [TS]

  megabytes a second it reads he's like oh [TS]

  that's coming from the SSD but if he [TS]

  gets a lower read rate he's like oh [TS]

  that's coming from the hard drive [TS]

  because they really are vastly different [TS]

  rates and he has tried to experimentally [TS]

  prove to himself by eliminating things [TS]

  like disk caching and stuff like that [TS]

  but unmounting the drive to clear the [TS]

  disk cache that something you know he's [TS]

  determined okay these files are on the [TS]

  SSD and these files are on on the [TS]

  spinning disk and then he would see [TS]

  after he stopped doing his activity the [TS]

  disk activity would still be going on [TS]

  behind the scenes because like Quora [TS]

  storage and his estimation was moving [TS]

  stuff and then he would do in a [TS]

  subsequent tests and say oh now that's [TS]

  not that I was accessing that was slow [TS]

  before you know something behind the [TS]

  scenes has put that onto the SSD [TS]

  physical volume and now when I read from [TS]

  those exact same things it's fast ah so [TS]

  he's sort of experimentally determining [TS]

  that plain old core storage that you [TS]

  just make a logical volume out of two [TS]

  physical volumes it's moving stuff [TS]

  around based on your activity so that [TS]

  that was an important point to saying [TS]

  that this is what this is what fusion [TS]

  drive is uh the next bit was like the [TS]

  question of okay well you know is it [TS]

  block based or file based because again [TS]

  all the descriptions you know that the [TS]

  marketing descriptions are like all [TS]

  about files and applications but core [TS]

  storage you know logical volume [TS]

  management is working with you know [TS]

  blocks that did don't have that aren't [TS]

  the same thing they don't respect file [TS]

  and they're independent of file [TS]

  boundaries right because you're putting [TS]

  a file system on top of this block [TS]

  storage this virtual block storage [TS]

  device right so then he was trying to [TS]

  say okay I won't read or write entire [TS]

  files I'll read and write just like the [TS]

  first megabyte of a big file and he saw [TS]

  the like just reading writing that first [TS]

  megabyte would cause just that first [TS]

  megabyte to go on to the SSD like you [TS]

  know course towards remove them over [TS]

  there so their support for the idea that [TS]

  this arrangement of volumes and course [TS]

  storage moves data and doesn't move [TS]

  entire files it just moves blocks which [TS]

  makes perfect sense in terms of the wake [TS]

  or storage works and the final thing [TS]

  they tribe was like okay can I make this [TS]

  logical volume group out of to a logical [TS]

  volume out of two physical volumes and [TS]

  formatted as something other than H of S [TS]

  Plus so he formatted a ZFS like he's got [TS]

  this logic volume looks like just an [TS]

  unusual eyes hard disk is really made up [TS]

  of two hardest behind the scenes and he [TS]

  you know dizzy pool [TS]

  create blah blah and he's got ZFS on top [TS]

  of it which again makes sense if it's [TS]

  has nothing to do with files what it [TS]

  shouldn't care what file system on top [TS]

  it was just was just working with blocks [TS]

  and again he did his tests and saw that [TS]

  after he stopped messing with the file [TS]

  system I owed activity continued he said [TS]

  it always kept going for like 10 minutes [TS]

  were copy stuff and he didn't know if 10 [TS]

  minutes was like a fixed limit I think [TS]

  it's just because that's how long it [TS]

  took to move the amount of data he had [TS]

  fiddled with and then he did a read [TS]

  after that and like all of a sudden the [TS]

  data he'd been reading before is now [TS]

  coming back much faster because him it's [TS]

  been moved to the SSD so he's using this [TS]

  as evidence that core storage is you [TS]

  know works at the block level just like [TS]

  full disk encryption uh and has nothing [TS]

  to do with the file system its file [TS]

  system diagnostic and that what he was [TS]

  doing in his experiment here again he's [TS]

  doing this not unlike a fancy new iMac [TS]

  and not on one of the new mac man he's [TS]

  just on a random mac that happens to be [TS]

  running 10 8 2 i'm assuming right that [TS]

  this is what core storage is and [TS]

  everyone else who passed these stories [TS]

  around assumed as well as I hey cor [TS]

  storage on your Mac you can do coerced [TS]

  or not core storage fusion drive on your [TS]

  Mac you can do fusion drive on any Mac [TS]

  you'll be fine you can put external [TS]

  drives until you can do anything you [TS]

  want the underlying assumption that this [TS]

  is how fusion drive works well in late [TS]

  breaking news which Mark who could not [TS]

  possibly have had what do you think of [TS]

  that Lee hutchinson of ours who's [TS]

  written a couple of articles in fusion [TS]

  drive and who has one of the new mac [TS]

  minis with the fusion drive option [TS]

  moments before the show began pulled out [TS]

  his mac mini with Fusion Drive and ran a [TS]

  couple of commands for me and got the [TS]

  output of it so when he just runs disk [TS]

  you to list what it shows is dev disk 0 [TS]

  disk 1 and just to disk 0 has a whole [TS]

  bunch of different sections that's got [TS]

  the g yd partitioner map efi and then [TS]

  it's got apple core storage and apple [TS]

  boot OS 10 disc 1 is 1 terabyte volume [TS]

  it's got the g yd partition thing efi [TS]

  core storage and the recovery hard drive [TS]

  and dev disc 2 is the macintosh HD and [TS]

  it is a 1 point 1 terabyte disk and that [TS]

  one point 1 terabyte disk you can [TS]

  surmise by knowing the amount of [TS]

  physical storage that's installed [TS]

  here there's only a one terabyte [TS]

  spinning disk and a 128 gig SSD so how [TS]

  could there ever be a volume that's 1.1 [TS]

  terabytes well that's your fusion drive [TS]

  dev just two is the fusion drive made up [TS]

  with loathing so you see you know it's [TS]

  still got the recovery a hard disk [TS]

  partition I'm assuming that's carved out [TS]

  of the spinning disk and it's got the [TS]

  little you know boot OS 10 partition [TS]

  thing for going in recovery mode when he [TS]

  does info on disk 0 which was the the [TS]

  one that just has the Apple boot thing [TS]

  it says no file system on it at all is [TS]

  that it's an apple the device is the [TS]

  Apple SSD it's got a new volume name and [TS]

  no file system on it all when it doesn't [TS]

  on disk one which was the one terabyte [TS]

  spinning disk thing you know this is [TS]

  apple HD blah blah blah no file system [TS]

  on it at all not mounted when he runs it [TS]

  on just to dev just to says though this [TS]

  is Mac another HD it's jerald hfs+ [TS]

  volume and it's you know at one point [TS]

  one terabytes in size this is the [TS]

  logical volume that's been created out [TS]

  of those two physical things so to [TS]

  answer the question we had last week of [TS]

  what would happen if you pulled out the [TS]

  SSD or pulled out the other thing and we [TS]

  just put one of the things in the output [TS]

  of disk you till here on this actual [TS]

  fusion drive Mack says those things [TS]

  which show up is having no file system [TS]

  whatsoever like you would say this disks [TS]

  uninitialized do you want me I'm [TS]

  assuming it would say that because it [TS]

  doesn't even have a file system on it as [TS]

  far as the computer is concerned it just [TS]

  looks like you know random garbage only [TS]

  Deb disc 2 which is the logical I'm [TS]

  shows up as an actual volume with the [TS]

  size that couldn't possibly exist on any [TS]

  single disc with that's you know that's [TS]

  what we thought so when he does discute [TS]

  LCS lists and lists the output of the [TS]

  core storage out but shows one logical [TS]

  volume group with two physical volumes [TS]

  got the you know the SSD on the physical [TS]

  disk one logical volume family and out [TS]

  of that has made one logical volume [TS]

  called Macintosh HD that's you know that [TS]

  ends up being disk too ah and this [TS]

  exactly matches the output of the stuff [TS]

  that Oh Patrick Stein was doing he is [TS]

  his output of his logical volume groups [TS]

  in the physical volume stuff like that [TS]

  it looks like this so this is pretty [TS]

  conclusive evidence that what Patrick [TS]

  was doing is what fusion drive is and [TS]

  that [TS]

  you know unless I mean the only thing we [TS]

  don't know is how did Apple create this [TS]

  core storage volume is there some new [TS]

  special flag that they added to say i'll [TS]

  make this fusion drive thing it seems [TS]

  like there probably isn't because [TS]

  Patrick didn't use any special flag that [TS]

  says you know join these two discs into [TS]

  a single logical volume oh and by the [TS]

  way do that thing where you watch how [TS]

  much I use them in shuffle data around [TS]

  like it seems like that happens no [TS]

  matter what so this is some finally some [TS]

  actual concrete technical information [TS]

  about how this stuff works I would [TS]

  discourage people from immediately [TS]

  following it firing up the terminal and [TS]

  running man to scoop tail and figure out [TS]

  how to do this themselves unless you're [TS]

  doing on like a scratch Mac with disks [TS]

  you don't care about because it is very [TS]

  easy to accidentally hose yourself when [TS]

  using tools like this none of this is [TS]

  being done by the GUI this is all [TS]

  command line stuff you have to know you [TS]

  know device numbers and it's very easy [TS]

  to get confused about what Deb disk 0 [TS]

  and disk 1 are and stuff like that and [TS]

  just end up hosing yourself so i would [TS]

  not recommend that you run out and do [TS]

  this the one question that i had for lee [TS]

  that he wasn't able to check it before [TS]

  the show was if you use these [TS]

  command-line utility a Drake did and [TS]

  make yourself your own fusion drive add [TS]

  a couple of specialist two questions one [TS]

  is can you make a few here I've out of [TS]

  like seven discs and I see no reason why [TS]

  you couldn't because the whole point of [TS]

  course storage is you could just add [TS]

  physical volumes on there it doesn't [TS]

  just have to be to right and the second [TS]

  question is say you make your own little [TS]

  fusion drive can you boot from is there [TS]

  anything special you have to do to boot [TS]

  from it so say I had my mac pro here and [TS]

  I took two hard drives to let's say to [TS]

  external hard drives and I joined them [TS]

  into a fusion drive and I installed OS [TS]

  10 on it can I boot from basically boot [TS]

  from to external hard drives and same [TS]

  question for internal what if i use to [TS]

  internal drives in a game though can i [TS]

  boot from that obviously the mac mini [TS]

  can boot from it but there may be some [TS]

  weird procedure be like we're really [TS]

  it's booting off like the recovery [TS]

  partition and the curry partition is [TS]

  looking at nvram or some other setting [TS]

  and seeing okay well I'm really supposed [TS]

  to boot from this other one and it [TS]

  switches over like what is the bootstrap [TS]

  procedure when all the attached disks [TS]

  appear to have no file systems on them [TS]

  like it's all it's all happening in [TS]

  software so that's still an unanswered [TS]

  question but I think that's the surprise [TS]

  this week is that you know good old core [TS]

  storage [TS]

  they're all along or at least as of ten [TS]

  82 is doing this magical file moving [TS]

  stuff and nobody knew it and so you know [TS]

  before those imacs were announced you [TS]

  could have in theory made your own [TS]

  fusion drive and got these interesting [TS]

  performance characteristics out of it [TS]

  before I believe in announce this may be [TS]

  the first time that Apple is shipping [TS]

  something as a headlining feature in a [TS]

  keynote it was really on all of our [TS]

  discs oh no while we're watching it [TS]

  creepy huh yeah i'm i'm not about to go [TS]

  and try to experiment this myself [TS]

  because I do have four internal hard [TS]

  drives and one external on this thing [TS]

  and then a couple of spare mechanisms [TS]

  hanging around as well with no ways to [TS]

  put them ah but they're all filled with [TS]

  stuff so I don't really have time to [TS]

  play so I would still recommend for [TS]

  everyone who doesn't have a spare [TS]

  machine spare drives to mess around with [TS]

  only use Fusion Drive in its supported [TS]

  configuration on the machines that say [TS]

  they supported in the ways that are [TS]

  supported Haitian your nerd you want to [TS]

  you want to play around then i would say [TS]

  fire up the terminal and type man space [TS]

  disk you till all onward and scroll [TS]

  until you see the section about course [TS]

  storage and go to town and good luck [TS]

  good night and good luck yes skj Haley [TS]

  says in Shiro what could possibly go [TS]

  wrong Yeah right what me worry you know [TS]

  look possibly go wrong as you will wipe [TS]

  your entire disk oops yeah be careful [TS]

  guys that will never happen alright get [TS]

  another sponsor I have two more I will [TS]

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  video tutorials they teach you things [TS]

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  a course on it i love screencasting I've [TS]

  done screencasting and I've learned a [TS]

  lot from screencasting they have a [TS]

  membership this is how it works you pay [TS]

  25 bucks per month you get unlimited 24 [TS]

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  to all of their video courses and these [TS]

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  they're taught by people who know what [TS]

  they're doing real world experts come [TS]

  and they bust out of course go to [TS]

  linda.com and spelled ly NDA Linda calm [TS]

  / 5 by 5 you get a free 7 day trial [TS]

  where you get access to tons and tons [TS]

  and tons of stuff and you support the [TS]

  show Linda calm / 5 by 5 it's a great [TS]

  way to learn and they do really really [TS]

  great work go check him out Linda that's [TS]

  it that's all spot yeah I had some other [TS]

  technical details Fusion Drive that was [TS]

  in my head and now it it has departed me [TS]

  oh yeah I guess there's despite all this [TS]

  evidence a lot of it still seems [TS]

  circumstantial to me in particular like [TS]

  this this sort of trying to observe [TS]

  course storage moving data from one [TS]

  place to the other and experimentally [TS]

  determining it by looking at the [TS]

  transfer rates and the fact that [TS]

  activity is going on with the mechanisms [TS]

  even when you're not doing any like [TS]

  that's ninety-nine point nine percent [TS]

  sure but I would still really love a [TS]

  real technical document or something [TS]

  like straight from Apple's mouth like [TS]

  this is how it works this is what [TS]

  happens this is the underlying you know [TS]

  implementation details of it instead of [TS]

  having us to do all this guesswork stuff [TS]

  I would still prefer that so but it [TS]

  seems to me that all this is on the [TS]

  right track and this is how it's done [TS]

  and this much much less confusing now I [TS]

  less confusing than their explanation [TS]

  now now that it's like you know so its [TS]

  core storage but you keep talking about [TS]

  files and apps makes no sense now makes [TS]

  so much more sense and and in hindsight [TS]

  it makes sense that Apple said it is [TS]

  Apple's not going to talk about managing [TS]

  blocks of storage they're going to say [TS]

  files and applications because that's [TS]

  what people care about it they don't [TS]

  really care that it could be that only [TS]

  the first megabyte of that application [TS]

  is on the SSD because only the first [TS]

  megabyte of it is the thing that ever [TS]

  gets rich or something like that yeah so [TS]

  does it say in the chat room yes wdc you [TS]

  next year presumably they'll talk about [TS]

  this if only to brag because really it [TS]

  probably has very few practical and blue [TS]

  implications for people writing software [TS]

  for OS 10 but they do tend to like you [TS]

  know look at this cool thing that we did [TS]

  everybody and they'll talk about it [TS]

  there maybe there's like one or two new [TS]

  API is about how to handle Fusion Drive [TS]

  things and I use an excuse to have 17 [TS]

  slides about the implementation of [TS]

  fusion drive [TS]

  I will enjoy that at least least I hope [TS]

  they do all right so my main topic for [TS]

  today oh is 41 minutes in can you guess [TS]

  George Lucas and the now we already did [TS]

  that ipad mini I would have interrogated [TS]

  you about drive that many if you had one [TS]

  but you don't it's still on the vehicle [TS]

  for delivery you failed me for the last [TS]

  time I'm pollen job but no today I'm [TS]

  gonna talk about the Apple executive [TS]

  reshuffle forestall is out yes i have is [TS]

  ian sure been the title of their press [TS]

  release yes so the actual title of their [TS]

  press release was apple announces [TS]

  changes to increase collaboration across [TS]

  hardware software and services and they [TS]

  do this weird thing where there's an [TS]

  ampersand between software and services [TS]

  so i'm assuming software ampersand [TS]

  services is a single thing that is a [TS]

  unit yeah anyway uh just kind of [TS]

  euphemistic business doublespeak because [TS]

  you know whenever a company announces [TS]

  something that happened to them that [TS]

  they didn't really plan for or that's [TS]

  like could be interpreted as bad news [TS]

  they are not direct with the the [TS]

  headline yeah I mean yeah like they took [TS]

  it's not like they trying to hide it but [TS]

  their spin doctoring it as you would say [TS]

  yeah at least in the title like they're [TS]

  not gonna say we've just fired a really [TS]

  important executive who's done you know [TS]

  like that that's that's the headline the [TS]

  wheel get from like you said forestall [TS]

  out that could have been the two word [TS]

  title of this thing and in fact was the [TS]

  the the URL of Gruber space with a [TS]

  reference and a little bit for stall out [TS]

  like that is the headline piece of [TS]

  amanda berry they bury the headline [TS]

  under we're going to increase [TS]

  collaboration and people are going to [TS]

  take the responsibilities and by the way [TS]

  we fired this dude right and this is a [TS]

  buried that in there right so I think [TS]

  was like in the first paragraph but but [TS]

  it was like apple also announced like in [TS]

  addition to what we just told you about [TS]

  these people get new responsibilities [TS]

  apple also announced the Scott fallstowe [TS]

  will be leaving next year and will serve [TS]

  as adviser to CEO Tim Cook's nicely they [TS]

  could do it in november so they can say [TS]

  next year so it seems like i'll be [TS]

  leaving but all the notes that's a month [TS]

  right you know hilton [TS]

  leaving next year I guess he could leave [TS]

  anytime next year but it seems to me [TS]

  people keep saying oh well Scott far so [TS]

  we'll be there for another year now no [TS]

  talking there talk in January one or the [TS]

  stroke of midnight on January fun right [TS]

  and and that's the interesting like when [TS]

  you reach a certain pay grade when [TS]

  you're working for the man or what is [TS]

  here what is your expression corporate [TS]

  decision that's you you're the you're a [TS]

  corporate stooge I am my total am uh but [TS]

  when you reach a certain level in [TS]

  American corporations they'll they bend [TS]

  over backwards to preserve the or that [TS]

  you are an important good person who [TS]

  should not be publicly insulted or [TS]

  whatever right so if you're just like a [TS]

  regular rank-and-file employee uh they [TS]

  lay you off because the factory's [TS]

  closing or something and you just get [TS]

  laid off and all the stories about your [TS]

  like these people got laid off if you [TS]

  are a rank-and-file employee and you get [TS]

  fired because people don't like you or [TS]

  like fired with cause or something like [TS]

  that you got fine you got yeah you got [TS]

  fired like there's never any press [TS]

  releases associated but there was that [TS]

  if someone calls and say what happened [TS]

  to blah blah blah like something you [TS]

  could try to apply for next job and [TS]

  someone calls up your old company so [TS]

  yeah we fired him because you know uh he [TS]

  was sexually harassing people or he was [TS]

  always he stole out of the register oh [TS]

  yeah he's still out of the register or [TS]

  he never showed up on time or like they [TS]

  say that they fired you but if once you [TS]

  pass some certain threshold nobody will [TS]

  ever say that they fired you even [TS]

  they'll have a press release about and [TS]

  they won't say we're firing Scott [TS]

  Forstall they'll just never say it like [TS]

  you know but everybody knows because if [TS]

  you were leaving on good terms the press [TS]

  release looks very different like we're [TS]

  very sad to see like the Burt Ron so [TS]

  late when he left he's done such great [TS]

  things for us and we're sad to see him [TS]

  go and he's leaving and it's totally [TS]

  clear that he's he's leaving of his own [TS]

  accord he's not being fired and there's [TS]

  a middle ground more like you're kind of [TS]

  being forced out or encouraged to retire [TS]

  whatever but this one reads like this is [TS]

  what happened this is what a firing [TS]

  looks like here when you're when you're [TS]

  a multimillionaire Ryan you're a [TS]

  multi-millionaire this is how you get [TS]

  fired they never say you're fired like [TS]

  cuz they just don't want to don't want [TS]

  to hurt your feelings I'm and I think [TS]

  that's not necessarily a bad thing it's [TS]

  not like I'm saying he should say he was [TS]

  fired just like they do for the peons I [TS]

  think if anything the river should be [TS]

  true that [TS]

  peons should get the same kind of [TS]

  respect and kind of like you know you [TS]

  don't have to be so rude about it just [TS]

  because they're an underling and are [TS]

  multi-millionaires and aren't powerful [TS]

  everyone should get this kind of [TS]

  treatment that's I'm not I don't think [TS]

  it's unfair that it's got forestalls [TS]

  firing is spoken about euphemistically [TS]

  think they should they should do this to [TS]

  everybody unless of course you did [TS]

  something horrible like set fire to the [TS]

  building or you know whatever then they [TS]

  can be more honest but I you know from [TS]

  this announcement it appears that Scott [TS]

  Forstall was fired like he did not [TS]

  willingly go and the changes are Johnny [TS]

  I will provide leadership in the [TS]

  direction and direction for human [TS]

  interface across the company in addition [TS]

  to his role as leader industrial design [TS]

  Eddy Cue is taking over Syrian maps in [TS]

  addition to all the other stuff that he [TS]

  does like iTunes map store and I [TS]

  bookstore and iCloud federighi who was [TS]

  in chart Craig federighi was in charge [TS]

  of OS 10 is now also in charge of iOS [TS]

  which was forced all sold job at Bob [TS]

  Mansfield who had previously retired but [TS]

  then came back is now going to be in [TS]

  charge of the heat coming out before all [TS]

  of this right yes he left before and he [TS]

  came back before it but now he is being [TS]

  assigned this new responsibility for the [TS]

  technology group how much before had he [TS]

  come back do you recall was it a couple [TS]

  months or what I have a timeline later [TS]

  in the night I apologize so we will get [TS]

  to it yes I know you can't see my nuts [TS]

  uh yeah and and additionally I think [TS]

  this is I think this is in the order it [TS]

  wasn't in the end of thing additionally [TS]

  oh and by the way before we get out of [TS]

  this spreadsheet John Brown is out is [TS]

  leaving Apple that's what they say again [TS]

  fired right he he's not leaving apple of [TS]

  his own accord he didn't retire he [TS]

  hasn't you know oh it's been a great run [TS]

  here for the past seven years at Apple [TS]

  but now I'm ready to try new things now [TS]

  he was there for like six months now [TS]

  he's out and a search for a new head of [TS]

  retails underway he was the guy who [TS]

  replaced Ron Johnson is the guy [TS]

  responsible for the Apple stores and now [TS]

  they're looking for new replacement [TS]

  alright so that's the summary of the [TS]

  news and now I want to dive into it in [TS]

  more detail where we'll get to all those [TS]

  dates and names and stuff like that ah [TS]

  but as we said before the gist of this [TS]

  like on the web you know where they cut [TS]

  through all the BS and say there's a big [TS]

  press release a bunch of things happen [TS]

  in this press release but the [TS]

  headline the lead of this story is [TS]

  forced all-out forestalls gone right and [TS]

  and he's been fired and we all see that [TS]

  that's you know that's clearly what [TS]

  happened and all the stories have been [TS]

  about what happened that this guy who's [TS]

  been with Apple for so long and been in [TS]

  charge of such important things how did [TS]

  he get fire what did he do what was the [TS]

  cause for firing naps and you know and [TS]

  yes they're not if the nut if they're [TS]

  not even gonna say he was fired they're [TS]

  not gonna list in the press release what [TS]

  he did if John for still goes to get [TS]

  another job somewhere that that person [TS]

  won't be able to call apple and say why [TS]

  should you guys fire him was you know [TS]

  can you tell they're never gonna say [TS]

  that certainly not gonna say it in the [TS]

  press release but all the stories have [TS]

  been about that and we've all read the [TS]

  stories maps you brought that up uh Siri [TS]

  skeuomorphic design yeah uh and and but [TS]

  the big one I see us at the undercurrent [TS]

  of everything is like personality stuff [TS]

  of like he was mean he didn't get along [TS]

  with people he took credit for things [TS]

  that you know that there weren't his [TS]

  like all sorts of interpersonal stuff [TS]

  about how you know like personality [TS]

  issues not some like in other words the [TS]

  ID since that Kurt runs underneath [TS]

  everything it's like well yeah he had [TS]

  problems with all these things and there [TS]

  have been some issues with with products [TS]

  but you know the real reason is cuz like [TS]

  there was some sort of personality [TS]

  conflict and people didn't like him or [TS]

  whatever um and what I have to say about [TS]

  all all that the entire idea is that [TS]

  there's it's you can't talk about [TS]

  Forrestal leaving Apple with any actual [TS]

  knowledge or authority because basically [TS]

  nobody actually knows what happened I [TS]

  know all these stores in New York Times [TS]

  and Wall Street Journal have like [TS]

  sources close to or app people involved [TS]

  there up employees and stuff like that [TS]

  uh but i think it's and then like all [TS]

  these articles will say we talked to [TS]

  sources close to her and they said that [TS]

  this person couldn't be in the same room [TS]

  with that person and they had sort of [TS]

  personality conflicts and blah blah and [TS]

  then the rest of the article proceeds as [TS]

  if the you know they make these [TS]

  confident assertions well we have a [TS]

  source or two sources and they say this [TS]

  and therefore and then the whole rest [TS]

  the article uses those assertions as [TS]

  premises given this information that [TS]

  we've already told you from these [TS]

  sources which you will now serve as a [TS]

  hundred percent true now let's discuss [TS]

  what that means right and I don't think [TS]

  that's a useful way to reason about this [TS]

  because I don't think you could have any [TS]

  confidence in in the assertions of your [TS]

  sources about why he was fired as well [TS]

  Shipley was saying on Twitter the other [TS]

  day uh he he was fired from you know [TS]

  forced out of or whatever because he was [TS]

  he was at that level where you don't [TS]

  stay fired but he himself said fire from [TS]

  Omni group the famous next and then Mac [TS]

  os10 software group that he co-founded [TS]

  uh and he said I don't know why I was [TS]

  fired found a group all he knows is his [TS]

  side of the story even if you were to [TS]

  ask scott forstall why do you think you [TS]

  were fired you're still not gonna get [TS]

  the whole story there because no single [TS]

  person probably it's certainly no single [TS]

  person who's not like tim cook or scott [TS]

  first well maybe you got both of them [TS]

  combined you could figure it out uh but [TS]

  like as they say history is written by [TS]

  the winners and that's definitely true [TS]

  when it comes to corporate press [TS]

  releases and corporate politics uh you [TS]

  know it when you see stories leaked [TS]

  intentionally leaked or not about oh he [TS]

  had personality conflicts or whatever [TS]

  those are the people who want and it's [TS]

  got Forrestal to be gone and they're [TS]

  gonna sell their side of the story is [TS]

  not necessarily the objective truth of [TS]

  course they're gonna say bad things [TS]

  about him because they wanted him to go [TS]

  but who's to say they're right in that [TS]

  conflict we don't have any visibility [TS]

  into the internal stupid personal [TS]

  political situation inside Apple and you [TS]

  just can't go by the things you hear [TS]

  from people inside Apple because most [TS]

  likely you are hearing from the people [TS]

  who wanted him to go he doesn't get a [TS]

  fair shot in that he he doesn't have any [TS]

  say in the corporate communication about [TS]

  it he doesn't get to influence who's [TS]

  going to be in all these stories so I [TS]

  think it's completely unfair to Scott [TS]

  Forstall to assume that all those [TS]

  stories about his personality are are [TS]

  true and in any way really like because [TS]

  it's just it's a complete and balanced [TS]

  and a complete communication failure and [TS]

  again i would say who got forced forced [TS]

  all in person to be on this show and [TS]

  interview him his side of it isn't [TS]

  necessarily true it's somewhere in the [TS]

  middle there right so I'm not interested [TS]

  in [TS]

  thinking about or dwelling on why it is [TS]

  that he was forced out of the company [TS]

  but I think there are lots of things we [TS]

  can talk about about this change without [TS]

  really caring why it happened [TS]

  necessarily I mean we can look at you [TS]

  know possible things that could have [TS]

  contributed to basically I'm resigned to [TS]

  never knowing and really don't care that [TS]

  much about what is it that made this [TS]

  they brought this over the edge what [TS]

  made it go from some sort of internal [TS]

  problem to the solutions this problem is [TS]

  to get rid of force though does that [TS]

  does that make sense yes and I'm I don't [TS]

  know like I tried to put myself in the [TS]

  shoes of one of these multi-millionaire [TS]

  executives he's mean just jump right [TS]

  into that you can get into that yeah cuz [TS]

  I wouldn't want like if you were Scott [TS]

  for the forest all the press has not [TS]

  been fair to him I feel like I mean [TS]

  maybe you know maybe like in his [TS]

  autobiography come combined with like an [TS]

  apple tell-all history like 10 years now [TS]

  we'll start to get a picture of but now [TS]

  you're not gonna so it's not useful to [TS]

  uh to think about that so let me back [TS]

  way up and take a look at this [TS]

  reshuffling without trying to care so [TS]

  much about personalities and stuff like [TS]

  that ok let's look at let's look at the [TS]

  the Tim Cook era of Apple such as it did [TS]

  so far so when Tim Cook took over a CEO [TS]

  is Apple and this was before Steve Jobs [TS]

  died because he he sort of handed over [TS]

  the reins as he left the company Apple [TS]

  was on a hell of a winning streak at [TS]

  that point and so cooks job first and [TS]

  foremost was to keep a good thing going [TS]

  right I and that's what everybody said [TS]

  when the transfer of power happened it's [TS]

  like they broke don't fix it oh okies [TS]

  here you know don't mess anything up man [TS]

  cuz like you know they're going [TS]

  gangbusters everything everything was [TS]

  roses iphone [TS]

  had like you know just everything Steve [TS]

  Jobs had done in his past you know it [TS]

  last few projects would have been just [TS]

  all all thumbs up everyone was loving it [TS]

  great things were happening uh and all [TS]

  the reassuring statements either about [TS]

  Apple or from Apple we're like don't [TS]

  worry Tim's gonna do just what Steve was [TS]

  doing like yeah you know he's gonna be [TS]

  his own man someone so forth but he's [TS]

  not gonna screw up at stuff that Steve [TS]

  day because we understand like you know [TS]

  don't be afraid he's not gonna suddenly [TS]

  decide that Apple's gonna go into you [TS]

  know the health food business uh and [TS]

  this is despite the fact that Jobs [TS]

  himself insisted that cook should make [TS]

  his own decisions about Apple like I put [TS]

  a link in the show notes to our [TS]

  technical articles course when I was [TS]

  saying you know don't don't ask it jobs [TS]

  who say don't ask yourself what I would [TS]

  you just do what it is right you know [TS]

  that's Steve Jobs own advice but [TS]

  everyone else in the world is like yeah [TS]

  ignore was steve said do what he would [TS]

  do just do it he would do it because [TS]

  everything he did was awesome and you [TS]

  just got to keep doing that at least in [TS]

  the short term so it's like all of us [TS]

  out here on the outside totally wanted [TS]

  Tim Cook to just be uh to be like I'd [TS]

  proxy Steve Jobs like make make us feel [TS]

  like Steve Jobs it isn't really gone and [TS]

  then when he died same thing like just [TS]

  Tim just do what Steve would do [TS]

  disregard everything do what Steven dude [TS]

  except that part where he told you not [TS]

  to do what he would do do everything [TS]

  except that um and that's what he wanted [TS]

  you know that's what we all wanted on [TS]

  the outside like no customers investors [TS]

  everybody who is wanted that was like [TS]

  just don't screw this up man because [TS]

  it's been so awesome right and so what [TS]

  that means is that cook didn't come in [TS]

  on his first day CEO like clean house at [TS]

  the executive level you didn't go okay [TS]

  now I'm the new boss in charge steve is [TS]

  out and I'm making some changes I'm [TS]

  gonna redecorate I'm gonna change [TS]

  everything here he did not do that and [TS]

  that is very common for like when a new [TS]

  CEO comes into a company look at like [TS]

  the other tech companies which are [TS]

  incredibly dysfunctional and terrible [TS]

  but like you know get every every new [TS]

  CEO that's come into HP and further [TS]

  screwed up or even apples olds [TS]

  executives they come in and say things [TS]

  are gonna change around this place like [TS]

  that's how you assert yourself as a CEO [TS]

  you know a marissa or that may or am i [TS]

  er I know your browser name i think it's [TS]

  mmm meyer the one going to yahoo she's [TS]

  you know she's not gonna go in there and [TS]

  go i'm just gonna continue what the [TS]

  previous guy did because usually when [TS]

  you CEO is changing its like that all [TS]

  guys screwed things up you got to come [TS]

  fix neck so you come in and you [TS]

  you make some big changes right away and [TS]

  cook did not do that right what he did [TS]

  was inherited the exact same team that [TS]

  he had been on that he had been a member [TS]

  of all those members of the top level [TS]

  executive staff were still there except [TS]

  they took the guy in the middle of that [TS]

  diagram the guy I'm unquestionably in [TS]

  charge of everybody and removed him and [TS]

  team dynamics changed when the team [TS]

  members change and especially if the [TS]

  change is we took out the guy who was in [TS]

  the center of this diagram and who was [TS]

  in charge now the team dynamics are [TS]

  definitely going to change but the team [TS]

  dynamics machines but he kept the same [TS]

  team because that was part of his thing [TS]

  is like he decided you know I'm not [TS]

  gonna rock the boat I'm gonna come in [TS]

  and I'm not going to just change [TS]

  everything I'm just gonna go with what I [TS]

  have but he didn't he couldn't possibly [TS]

  continue what they were doing because [TS]

  such a big chart of it had changed it [TS]

  seemed that some kind of reshuffling was [TS]

  inevitable and he didn't do it like [TS]

  other than you know Ron Johnson leaving [TS]

  to go to jcpenney and being replaced and [TS]

  I remember that happened before after he [TS]

  came but like that's not his doing like [TS]

  that Ron Johnson decided to leave and so [TS]

  we had to replace him and stuff like [TS]

  that so he did eventually have to make [TS]

  decisions like that uh just like you [TS]

  know being forced to to sort of taking [TS]

  Crowes like okay Tim you can't just [TS]

  coast on the projects that were in the [TS]

  pipeline jobs there keep the exact same [TS]

  executive team the exact same project [TS]

  just go at some point you're gonna have [TS]

  to start doing stuff uh and that's how [TS]

  you know and we couldn't judged him cook [TS]

  by what he did when he came in and [TS]

  cleaned house because he didn't uh so [TS]

  one of the first things that he did was [TS]

  I think this was him I gotta look at [TS]

  there's a January 31st 2012 I believe I [TS]

  guess that was the others after Jobs was [TS]

  gone right because he died in October [TS]

  2011 right right yeah so one of cooks [TS]

  first major decisions was I got to find [TS]

  that guy to replace Ron Johnson and he [TS]

  picked John Browett who ran Dixon's [TS]

  which was apparently a UK chain I have [TS]

  link in the show notes to this article [TS]

  on our stock to go does dixons retail [TS]

  CEO John brow decide to take over [TS]

  rappers former retail chief blah blah [TS]

  and that wasn't that higher was not [TS]

  looked upon particularly finally like [TS]

  right off the bat because it was like [TS]

  this is nearest act ago story says he [TS]

  may be a poor choice to succeed apples [TS]

  former senior vice president ron johnson [TS]

  if customer service clean stores and [TS]

  great products are still priorities of [TS]

  the companies and it's because Dixon's [TS]

  the chain that he had previously you [TS]

  know the food previous being charged up [TS]

  does not have a good reputation [TS]

  apparently in the UK and people who knew [TS]

  Dixon's and new brauch said this is like [TS]

  the opposite of what I think of when I [TS]

  think of the apple store and this is the [TS]

  guy you hired to be in charge with the [TS]

  app [TS]

  app [TS]

  store now when these stories were coming [TS]

  out uh I didn't lend much credence to [TS]

  them again because lots of people like [TS]

  just look at all the people who are [TS]

  currently on the executive staff and [TS]

  Apple the people who have done great [TS]

  jobs they may have been associated with [TS]

  crappy company or easier and in charge [TS]

  of crappy companies in the past but I [TS]

  was like well Apple gives you a chance [TS]

  to do things differently like the rules [TS]

  are different an apple you have more [TS]

  freedom you actually have a good product [TS]

  it's not like a bargain-basement a thin [TS]

  margin retail business like things can [TS]

  be different you know I don't remember [TS]

  who ron jons come from compact or [TS]

  something like whatever Ron Johnson did [TS]

  before the apple store probably did not [TS]

  succeed to level the apple store is so [TS]

  if you saw Ron Johnson he's not going to [TS]

  help you look what he's done in the past [TS]

  just been all bunch of crappy retail [TS]

  stores he's never gonna you know things [TS]

  are different inside apples was it all [TS]

  right I'm given this John Brown guide [TS]

  chance let's just because his previous [TS]

  chain of stores was the anti apple store [TS]

  uh maybe the reason he wants to bail [TS]

  he's like I'm tired of this dog-eat-dog [TS]

  world and I want to do something better [TS]

  but his start was not auspicious in [TS]

  August so he's you know hired in January [TS]

  in August they had this big blowup where [TS]

  one of the first policies that he [TS]

  implemented was to lower the staffing [TS]

  levels to try to reduce the overhead of [TS]

  the store because like all you got all [TS]

  these employees and if we can reduce [TS]

  headcount you can get more a profit out [TS]

  of this some of the Chairman saying Ron [TS]

  Johnson was uh was hired based on a [TS]

  success at target but I would still say [TS]

  target looks very different than an [TS]

  apple store she's gonna do retail apples [TS]

  retail so I was gonna be like target [TS]

  yeah that's better than kmart but just [TS]

  barely yeah anyway very different [TS]

  environment Apple so when Brout came and [TS]

  you know it seemed like a bean counter [TS]

  kind of thing to do we can make more [TS]

  profit from these stores that we just [TS]

  reduce our headcount I think we can [TS]

  still support the customs into this [TS]

  headcount and that decision was not [TS]

  popular among employees wearing anyone [TS]

  among anybody media you me anyone yet [TS]

  because the employees were like you're [TS]

  cutting my hours or you're laying me off [TS]

  worse right and the customers are like [TS]

  every time I go into the apple store [TS]

  it's hard enough for me to find someone [TS]

  to help me and now you're gonna reduce [TS]

  that thing I think this was well you [TS]

  know it's like August is not right [TS]

  before the holiday season but it's kind [TS]

  of right before the holiday season [TS]

  and these changes supposedly because he [TS]

  he also implemented a twenty-five [TS]

  percent pay raise and to support the pay [TS]

  raise you know perry's i'm sure the [TS]

  Apple employees loved you know we all [TS]

  you know pipe pillows guys there that's [TS]

  great but it's all to pay for that pay [TS]

  raise I have to lay off a bunch of you [TS]

  right and this was not popular and [TS]

  people were angry about it an apple [TS]

  reversed it so this story from August [TS]

  sixteenth is new apple retail chief [TS]

  makes quote mistake and firing staff [TS]

  comma hires them back right and Apple is [TS]

  reversing changes to the formerly used [TS]

  to calculate staffing levels in its [TS]

  retail stores an experiment using the [TS]

  new formula it apparently led to wide [TS]

  ranging layoffs and cuts and assign [TS]

  hours however Apple's new retail chief [TS]

  John brow to the company quote messed up [TS]

  implementing the changes in the first [TS]

  place right so here is your new hire [TS]

  whose first major visible initiative is [TS]

  wildly unpopular and immediately reverse [TS]

  and then you then it's like I imagined [TS]

  him having to go like someone chastising [TS]

  him and now he has to make like a public [TS]

  apology of saying that thing I totally [TS]

  wanted to do that was a mistake and so [TS]

  here's apple spokesperson Kristen huget [TS]

  saying making these changes was a [TS]

  mistake and the changes are being [TS]

  reversed our employees are our most [TS]

  important asset and blah blah blah you [TS]

  know when a spokesperson has got to come [TS]

  out and say that thing that we just [TS]

  hired that he did were totally reversing [TS]

  and we're just immediately publicly [TS]

  admitting this is a mistake even it's [TS]

  not like you know they people dog piled [TS]

  an apple and force them to admit it was [TS]

  a mistake they caught this one pretty [TS]

  quickly so it's almost like John browz [TS]

  off in his corner office doing his stuff [TS]

  and Tim Cook it's windows and he says he [TS]

  did what you know and the other [TS]

  possibility is that Tim Cook was [TS]

  pressuring John brow to say why don't [TS]

  these store is more profitable you need [TS]

  to make them more profitable and then [TS]

  you know he was just acting doing what [TS]

  he thought Tim Cook wanted to do and [TS]

  then it ended up being a PR situation [TS]

  again we don't know what's going on [TS]

  inside the company but bottom line is [TS]

  questionable higher we were all [TS]

  suspicious about his first major move [TS]

  immediately reversed these are not good [TS]

  things and and this is like Tim Cook's [TS]

  first major move at the corporate level [TS]

  in terms of the executives so not like [TS]

  I'm not looking good for Tim Cook's [TS]

  track record so far this is a comment on [TS]

  one of those stories from the cosh th [TS]

  EKG on arstechnica promoted come [TS]

  says as a former apple store specialist [TS]

  I can't even imagine a word coming down [TS]

  that they were going to cut the number [TS]

  of people working our biggest complaints [TS]

  were always long lines of I waited 20 [TS]

  minutes for someone to help me and [TS]

  decided to leave like that's the [TS]

  complaints that they get from people on [TS]

  the apple store it's not that you know [TS]

  you weren't helpful or your stores were [TS]

  ugly and dirty or I couldn't find [TS]

  anything it's that I couldn't get helped [TS]

  so again cutting employees doesn't seem [TS]

  like a good idea lots of I've seen lots [TS]

  of stories and both sides this both that [TS]

  John Brown did this on his own it was [TS]

  reversed and also that this is something [TS]

  that institutional bean counter Tim Cook [TS]

  always wanted to do and Steve Jobs was [TS]

  the one stopping him from applying his [TS]

  bean-counting tendencies the stores say [TS]

  no we can't you know don't treat it as [TS]

  like a profit Center even though they [TS]

  make tons of money don't try to squeeze [TS]

  every ounce out of it it's not it's more [TS]

  important for us to preserve the image [TS]

  of our brand that it is to get every red [TS]

  cent out of these stores so I don't know [TS]

  what's going on internally but clearly [TS]

  it was some sort of conflict and it [TS]

  didn't work out uh there are more [TS]

  stories about this even after the [TS]

  reversal bits like now John bribe route [TS]

  has been has been painted with the bean [TS]

  counter brush and this another story [TS]

  link in the show notes from August [TS]

  twenty-eighth apple store may be [TS]

  shifting from customer experience to [TS]

  profit machine so even though they [TS]

  reversed all the things you know this [TS]

  wasn't this was an op-ed the idea was [TS]

  that now Brown see see I told you about [TS]

  this guy all he wants to do is like you [TS]

  turn it into a crappy store that just [TS]

  makes every amount of money can and [TS]

  you're gonna be pushing like the [TS]

  extended warranties in the undercoating [TS]

  and the two-hundred-dollar monster [TS]

  cables and it's just gonna be best buy [TS]

  in like a month all right and everyone [TS]

  who was saying that now had some [TS]

  evidence of like look this is just what [TS]

  this guy wants to do and so now he's out [TS]

  now this executive be hired this one [TS]

  change he'd made to the executive lineup [TS]

  Tim Cook's guy who he brought in all our [TS]

  worst fears turned out to be true [TS]

  apparently as far as we can tell from [TS]

  the outside and he's out fired and [TS]

  you're gonna say why was he fired well [TS]

  what has he done in his six months there [TS]

  uh one thing that turned out terribly [TS]

  and he had to immediately reverse so [TS]

  he's gone now Mansfield here's another [TS]

  thing that happened surrounding Tim [TS]

  Cook's time and her when did Tim Cook [TS]

  take over i forget i have mansfield [TS]

  dates here but not in books but night [TS]

  uh Mansell retired in June and then he [TS]

  came back in August so right away that's [TS]

  weird he retires they give the nice l [TS]

  Bob Mansfield's retiring he wants to go [TS]

  on to do other things obviously not [TS]

  fired he's retiring you know young but [TS]

  you know again multi millionaires from [TS]

  retirement sure uh and then he's back in [TS]

  August uh and and that's that's weird [TS]

  because do we stitch is further ado we [TS]

  see this with other corporations have [TS]

  you done a cross-check have you done in [TS]

  comparison with other companies to see [TS]

  if they have this kind of shuffling as [TS]

  much I mean usually with another company [TS]

  like somebody leaves they're gone they [TS]

  don't they don't get to come back well [TS]

  if they leave that their own accord like [TS]

  I bet this happens all the time in [TS]

  companies is just that every company [TS]

  isn't watched like uh like Apple is I [TS]

  mean maybe at the very highest level to [TS]

  think of the very highest levels of [TS]

  companies like I don't know like [TS]

  Microsoft or IBM or whatever companies [TS]

  that are similarly watch or Google hey [TS]

  the traditional thing is like once you [TS]

  get to a certain level in a corporation [TS]

  you're nothing matters anymore like [TS]

  almost nothing matters it your [TS]

  performance your personality is pretty [TS]

  much nothing you can do to ever get [TS]

  fired because you're the one who [TS]

  determines hiring and firing and to get [TS]

  them at level in the corporation you [TS]

  must have learned how to do internal [TS]

  corporate politics to the point where [TS]

  you have your own coalition of [TS]

  supporters and your own little fiefdom [TS]

  that you built for yourself and like [TS]

  that's that's all the corporate malaise [TS]

  that happens and that's why you don't [TS]

  see stories like this but in good [TS]

  companies that are more competitive at [TS]

  the top levels occasionally you do see [TS]

  defections like Marissa Meyer or mayor [TS]

  or the stuff we see at Apple ah but a [TS]

  retirement is usually like well you know [TS]

  I never thought I'd be rich now I am and [TS]

  I've been working really hard for a lot [TS]

  of years and I want to go out and [TS]

  another example at I get to a little bit [TS]

  later is aa bhi toh maine Ian who came [TS]

  from next and was in charge of their [TS]

  software and stuff and he retired and he [TS]

  just you know the same thing as it [TS]

  looked exactly like Mansfield I work [TS]

  really hard for a lot of years I've been [TS]

  rewarded for that work because Apple has [TS]

  been very successful now a [TS]

  multimillionaire now I want to do [TS]

  something else that's totally what [TS]

  Mansfield look like but when he comes [TS]

  back and August what that really means [TS]

  is that it wasn't like a V where he [TS]

  would legitimately wanted to do other [TS]

  things he had some other reasons for [TS]

  leaving and was able to be lured back [TS]

  right [TS]

  right right and you know at the time [TS]

  were like that's weird what what could [TS]

  you it was it just because he felt like [TS]

  I wasn't getting paid enough like was [TS]

  that that none of this speaks well to [TS]

  Tim Cook uh it to his management because [TS]

  if you have someone who is uh says [TS]

  they're retiring but they really just [TS]

  want to be paid more or something you [TS]

  should address that before they retire [TS]

  and it like and I have to think that [TS]

  that's that's crazy anyway like it's not [TS]

  like an actor where you're like oh the [TS]

  star of this of this movie is getting 20 [TS]

  million but i'm only getting five we're [TS]

  like the seinfeld thing where they all [TS]

  wanted more money and jerry seinfeld was [TS]

  getting more than the other stars and [TS]

  any all sorts of like ego-driven [TS]

  Starbase things but i feel like all of [TS]

  these guys executives were being paid [TS]

  very well had tons of stock options it [TS]

  wasn't a money issue and so then you [TS]

  left to wonder if it's just some sort of [TS]

  personality conflict and how do you get [TS]

  the guy to come back what have you done [TS]

  to change things and it seemed like they [TS]

  did nothing he leaves and rooney comes [TS]

  back in August I'm like well nothing has [TS]

  changed between june and august that we [TS]

  can imagine you know we don't think it's [TS]

  money they didn't like you know he [TS]

  wanted a job that he could never got and [TS]

  when he brought back he finally got that [TS]

  job now they brought him back and he [TS]

  seemed to have a less powerful position [TS]

  than he had before he was like advisor [TS]

  or whatever and he used to be in [TS]

  chargeable hardware so it was mysterious [TS]

  all right but in this same announcement [TS]

  that forestall is out now Mansfield [TS]

  suddenly has a new more powerful [TS]

  position not forestall his old job but [TS]

  different you know he's in charge of [TS]

  technologies in charge of this this [TS]

  other big thing uh so regardless of the [TS]

  reasoning behind this is what I'm saying [TS]

  we can try to talk about this without [TS]

  actually knowing is it because Mansfield [TS]

  hated forestall and he wouldn't come [TS]

  back until he got a promise at Forrester [TS]

  was going out and seems like hoodie who [TS]

  knows but like independent of what the [TS]

  reasoning is when something like this [TS]

  happens it is a black mark on Tim Cook's [TS]

  record like if you're keeping things in [TS]

  order you should be the one deciding [TS]

  who's hired and fired if someone leaves [TS]

  you should make sure that their that [TS]

  they're leaving for reasons that you [TS]

  have no control over and they really do [TS]

  just want to retire like all you know [TS]

  this type of thing we're a really [TS]

  important guy leaves and you get them to [TS]

  come back and another guy goes like it's [TS]

  just not it's just like good manage but [TS]

  not just because of the optics of like [TS]

  how it looks from the outside and [TS]

  everything but just in terms of like [TS]

  turmoil and like [TS]

  you know that you want the company to be [TS]

  steady and under good leadership and it [TS]

  should be like positive changes and [TS]

  accounting crew people who want to leave [TS]

  and retire this is this is I think a [TS]

  failure of Management no not a big one [TS]

  but a small one like it's not this is [TS]

  not a estar and Tim Cook's record the [TS]

  fact that all that happened regardless [TS]

  there's no there's no reason this could [TS]

  have happened that you know gives you a [TS]

  gold star so cook the record so far he [TS]

  hired the wrong guy for retail and had [TS]

  to fire him uh and he did not manage his [TS]

  current crop of executives who he [TS]

  apparently loves right well enough [TS]

  because they you know they bailed on him [TS]

  he had to pull him back in right so here [TS]

  finally I think with this reshuffle [TS]

  announcement is the beginning of the [TS]

  real Tim Cook era because finally he has [TS]

  done that thing going so you're saying [TS]

  you're saying that that that's over that [TS]

  the reshuffle that he has now created [TS]

  the Apple that he wants you're saying [TS]

  he's done now he's put the people in [TS]

  place he's made things happen and and we [TS]

  should not see any more of this not that [TS]

  he's done this is like this is like the [TS]

  beginning like you could imagine in a [TS]

  more traditional scenario where your CEO [TS]

  goes out because he's crappy the new CEO [TS]

  comes in and like you know day one or [TS]

  day ten or something impressed with [TS]

  these slick comes like this Here I am [TS]

  I'm coming in and I'm changing things [TS]

  around here and the first change is [TS]

  forced all your out Mansfield you're in [TS]

  charge of this Brout you're gone uh-uh [TS]

  you people have new responsibilities he [TS]

  is starting the Tim Cook Aaron now not [TS]

  that it's not going to be more changes [TS]

  there will be but this is the first set [TS]

  of them this marks the beginning of it [TS]

  and so it's like the time between and [TS]

  Steve Jobs left and now was him kind of [TS]

  coasting trying not to screw things up [TS]

  but really actually screwing things up a [TS]

  little bit and now he's finally said all [TS]

  right the time for me to just be like [TS]

  continue doing don't mess things up that [TS]

  time is over and it's time for me to do [TS]

  stuff because things had by not doing [TS]

  things I guess we all know by sort of [TS]

  letting things slide and just trying to [TS]

  you know stay the course things do screw [TS]

  up bad things happen and so he's finally [TS]

  taking the reins finally taking control [TS]

  so what did you do to recover from his [TS]

  bad record get rid of the bad retail guy [TS]

  get that good Hardware a guy back give [TS]

  him more power and you know get rid of [TS]

  forest all for whatever reasons and take [TS]

  the guys who are still there and [TS]

  redistribute their [TS]

  responsibilities give them more [TS]

  responsibilities reward them and like [TS]

  and this is the new team going forward [TS]

  finally what we have here is the first [TS]

  iteration of the Tim Cook team there are [TS]

  many iterations the Steve Jobs team over [TS]

  the years as well this is the first [TS]

  iteration finally of the Tim Cook team [TS]

  this is the beginning of the Tim Cook [TS]

  era ah and everything between there I [TS]

  would say it was mostly a mistake that [TS]

  he waited this long especially given the [TS]

  things that happened in between their [TS]

  Maps Siri all the other things have you [TS]

  know that the bad retail guy like it's [TS]

  it you know Tim Cook has a lot of black [TS]

  marks on his record but Tim Cook's [TS]

  credit he has been fast to recover he [TS]

  reversed that bad retail guys decision [TS]

  and he gave him a little bit more chance [TS]

  but he said no he's got to go like he [TS]

  didn't dilly-dally he didn't try to keep [TS]

  him around for long whatever the problem [TS]

  was with Forrestal dude this is [TS]

  definitely a definitive solution for it [TS]

  you know right or wrong it forestall was [TS]

  the right guy to keep and get rid of the [TS]

  other guys or whatever but like this is [TS]

  what he's made it's a very definitive [TS]

  it's a cut-off point ah 300 last month [TS]

  rival section about looking ahead to the [TS]

  future oh it's almost sounds optimistic [TS]

  coming from you sure shutterstock.com 20 [TS]

  million stock photos vectors [TS]

  illustrations video clips John if you're [TS]

  looking for an image for your website [TS]

  blog print ad trade show swag or even [TS]

  the iOS app that I know you're building [TS]

  you can go to shutterstock they add [TS]

  something like 10,000 new images every [TS]

  day they work with independent [TS]

  photographers illustrators designers to [TS]

  make really really cool stuff right [TS]

  there and when you go there you download [TS]

  the image you get it in the full size [TS]

  and the full HD size same thing with [TS]

  their video same thing with all the [TS]

  stuff that they do they don't nickel and [TS]

  dime you mean obviously there are [TS]

  company they want to make some money but [TS]

  they're turning that money over to the [TS]

  folks that do the design work as well [TS]

  when you go there you know that you're [TS]

  supporting that independent community of [TS]

  freelancers and photographers and people [TS]

  out there when you're when you're [TS]

  cruising around the site you make a [TS]

  lightbox you put the stuff that you want [TS]

  into the lightbox they have an iPad app [TS]

  for this by the way and when you pick [TS]

  the things out that you like you want to [TS]

  buy them you get thirty percent off you [TS]

  use the code Dan sent me 11 this is the [TS]

  eleventh month of the year [TS]

  you'll get thirty percent off any of the [TS]

  packages that you put together their [TS]

  huge library vectors and infographic [TS]

  templates you name it 24-hour support [TS]

  during the week go to shutterstock.com [TS]

  code is dan sent me 11 safe thirty [TS]

  percent thanks very much to them for [TS]

  making this show possible now it's time [TS]

  for the optimism to the future I think [TS]

  of you as an optimistic guy sure yeah I [TS]

  do probably maybe so going forward I go [TS]

  through each of the executives who [TS]

  something happened with and see what [TS]

  their what are they brought in the past [TS]

  mocha they have coming card so four [TS]

  stalls out what can we look at it you [TS]

  know it his legacy what did he do at [TS]

  Apple as far as we're able to determine [TS]

  from the outside huh first thing is even [TS]

  though it's not a confirmed report I've [TS]

  seen it enough sources that I believe it [TS]

  and I do know that when the iphone was [TS]

  under development there were many [TS]

  internal arguments as there always are [TS]

  at any healthy company i think about [TS]

  what the operating system platform [TS]

  should be four apples phone thing that [TS]

  they were going to do and on one side [TS]

  were people arguing that should be [TS]

  something other than what it was City [TS]

  there should be linux-based or actually [TS]

  based on the Pyxis operating system or [TS]

  something like that I think Linux was a [TS]

  major contender because hey that's you [TS]

  know that seems logical and then there [TS]

  was another entire camp saying our phone [TS]

  operating system should be based on Mac [TS]

  OS 10 and forestall reportedly was part [TS]

  of the Mac os10 camp in fact a big part [TS]

  of the Mac os10 camp and that argument [TS]

  if you were to just go back in time and [TS]

  look at that and we're like you're gonna [TS]

  put mac OS 10 on a phone do you [TS]

  understand like it barely runs like it's [TS]

  dog slow on you know a g4 powermac and [TS]

  you think that's gonna go on a phone [TS]

  that you know has some little tiny wimpy [TS]

  CPU in there like no ram are you crazy [TS]

  like it seems like all right it's great [TS]

  i know that you probably wanted to be [TS]

  like oh we can use some of the same dev [TS]

  tools and stuff but like it's come on [TS]

  guys you can't Mac os10 barely runs [TS]

  max and you want to put it on a phone [TS]

  and yet that camp you know perhaps not [TS]

  led by but certainly supported heavily [TS]

  by Forrestal according to all accounts [TS]

  won that argument inside Apple and [TS]

  that's not it that's a hard thing to do [TS]

  there may be many cases in the history [TS]

  of Apple where the the thing they [TS]

  decided to do seems a little crazy or [TS]

  like really really difficult or you know [TS]

  you've got your work cut out not the [TS]

  safe choice and this was not the safe [TS]

  choice and Forrestal was four and that [TS]

  shows you know daring foresight and it [TS]

  was the correct call like does anyone [TS]

  think of if iOS was based on linux Apple [TS]

  would be where it is today it was very [TS]

  difficult to do very very difficult to [TS]

  do what they did and the others a [TS]

  tremendous amount of crazy compromises [TS]

  in iOS one point 0 in the first iphone [TS]

  right no no multitasking they couldn't [TS]

  even do like the widget eyes apps based [TS]

  on like you know HTML and JavaScript and [TS]

  stuff because they were too slow [TS]

  everything negative you know core [TS]

  animation created layer kit created for [TS]

  the phone to make things fast GPU [TS]

  accelerated like it was an amazing [TS]

  technical achievement it was a bold move [TS]

  and Forrestal was associated that so [TS]

  thumbs up on that right he was involved [TS]

  with it eventually led the you know the [TS]

  iOS platform for the years when iOS went [TS]

  from zero to like you know a big gorilla [TS]

  right in some respects things like this [TS]

  are a little tiny bit right place right [TS]

  time because say you were involved I [TS]

  even just the mac OS 10 guys like the [TS]

  guys who were in charge of the Mac of [TS]

  Mac OS 10 during the same time that for [TS]

  so was involved in iOS did they do a [TS]

  worse job than for us awesome but [TS]

  because the Mac didn't have like [TS]

  phenomenal growth like I always did just [TS]

  you know the mac is a PC operating [TS]

  system that market is mature and it [TS]

  doesn't just have just didn't have the [TS]

  growth potential that iOS did or it was [TS]

  harder to change because it was an [TS]

  existing established market whereas hey [TS]

  you know this was a smartphone OS it was [TS]

  in a class of its own so in some [TS]

  respects this is another thing that [TS]

  happens in corporations the dude who [TS]

  happens to be in charge of the one [TS]

  project that probably would have been [TS]

  probably would have succeeded anyway [TS]

  like it was set up to succeed because it [TS]

  was the right plan at the right time and [TS]

  the right product and he just had to [TS]

  competently executed he looks like a god [TS]

  because it's like oh this he's the guy [TS]

  in charge of iOS and iOS is the naf the [TS]

  foundation of this company it prints [TS]

  money like a [TS]

  you know like the printing press is just [TS]

  unbelievable we're just drowning in [TS]

  profit and she's massively successful [TS]

  great for forest all that not that he [TS]

  doesn't deserve credit for this and I [TS]

  just got through saying how he was such [TS]

  a strong proponent of it being based on [TS]

  Mac os10 which was the right decision [TS]

  and a key decision but it is possible no [TS]

  matter how awesome you are to end up [TS]

  being elevated to a level that exceeds [TS]

  you know that your actual merits and you [TS]

  end up having maybe more power than you [TS]

  should have simply because like he's the [TS]

  guy he's the guy who's leading iOS and I [TS]

  was like you know he can do no wrong [TS]

  he's awesome and Steve Jobs himself has [TS]

  that phenomenon a lot but so you know in [TS]

  the eyes of your boss or whatever they [TS]

  don't need to know the details what they [TS]

  know is that you're the guy in charge of [TS]

  iOS and iOS is awesome and it's making [TS]

  tons of money right and it's hard to [TS]

  know during the ascendancy of iOS how [TS]

  many things that forestall do that were [TS]

  positive or negative how many things was [TS]

  he for that were good or against there [TS]

  were bed and you know Steve Jobs himself [TS]

  is a great example because it various [TS]

  times in the ascendancy of the ipod of [TS]

  the mac and so on so are Steve Jobs has [TS]

  been on the wrong side of many decisions [TS]

  and he would you know I don't want [TS]

  itunes on Windows to being a great [TS]

  example that was the wrong decision it [TS]

  needs insisted on and stop the speed and [TS]

  was a big baby about it and he was [TS]

  eventually convinced by the rest of the [TS]

  executive team this was the right thing [TS]

  to do that's an example of good [TS]

  leadership allowing yourself to be [TS]

  convinced and not putting your foot down [TS]

  but it's also an example of you making [TS]

  the wrong move so I bet forestalls [TS]

  stewardship of iOS was similar in that [TS]

  maybe he was against a lot of things [TS]

  that were good ideas like I don't know [TS]

  where he felt that on the App Store [TS]

  approval process and all of the various [TS]

  compromises made there but maybe he was [TS]

  on the wrong side of a lot of those but [TS]

  whatever he ended up doing he was either [TS]

  able to be convinced by people to make [TS]

  the right moves or the things that he [TS]

  did weren't bad enough so uh to to [TS]

  really hurt it that much so it's hard to [TS]

  assess his influence on iOS uh but you [TS]

  know especially in the beginning but [TS]

  towards the end because House of how [TS]

  successful iOS was and because of how [TS]

  much power he had acquired within the [TS]

  company he was Steve Jobs guy jobs you [TS]

  know the two of them by all accounts [TS]

  were very close and he was in charge of [TS]

  their most successful [TS]

  line ever the most successful platform [TS]

  ever and so it towards the end of a [TS]

  forestalls ring you have to say that [TS]

  everything that was going on in iOS you [TS]

  know in the beginning you don't know how [TS]

  much influence yeah but towards the end [TS]

  it's like that would not have happened [TS]

  to forestall didn't approve especially [TS]

  after Jobs was gone because that was my [TS]

  Jobs was around you're like no matter [TS]

  what Apple does well the job is [TS]

  initially forward against you do know [TS]

  that if it was released he was okay with [TS]

  it being released like nothing's getting [TS]

  out of Apple that Steve Jobs thinks is [TS]

  terrible and should never be released [TS]

  because he was the guy and he was the [TS]

  decider he was the guy in charge of [TS]

  everything when Steve Jobs was gone the [TS]

  decider for iOS was definitely for so [TS]

  when Jobs was there it would be like [TS]

  okay Forrestal could decide one thing [TS]

  would have jobs said no then I wasn't [TS]

  going to happen but it seemed like jobs [TS]

  in forest all of the same mind about [TS]

  what was going on there so towards the [TS]

  end of his reign you can say okay now [TS]

  everything that's happening in iOS I'm [TS]

  going to lay that at the foot of forest [TS]

  all because he was tremendously powerful [TS]

  jobs is no longer there and so that's [TS]

  got to be him right and examples of [TS]

  things that happened when it was just [TS]

  Forrestal or when I was at the end of [TS]

  his reign and when it's most clear to us [TS]

  on the outside that this had to have [TS]

  been at least approved by Forrestal [TS]

  because he was basically a dictator of [TS]

  that whole section of this huge part of [TS]

  Apple business are Siri maps and maybe [TS]

  the crazy skeuomorphic and textured app [TS]

  bonanza that happened on on iOS right [TS]

  but certainly Syria maps those land [TS]

  directly at the feet of forest all it's [TS]

  hard for me to imagine that you know [TS]

  like the book has to stop with him at [TS]

  that point because he was so clearly in [TS]

  charge jobs was gone I can't imagine Tim [TS]

  Cook taking on the same role the jobs [TS]

  did to come in and say oh I really want [TS]

  to find my friends to be leather Tim [TS]

  Cook is not doing that by all accounts [TS]

  right so that was all on Forrestal and [TS]

  all those things have parts of them that [TS]

  were not you know up to Apple standard [TS]

  Siri was released as beta that's apple [TS]

  kind of admitting that's not really [TS]

  quite ready to go or whatever but job [TS]

  sauce eerie and thumbs up that but he [TS]

  was like practically on his deathbed so [TS]

  you can't know if he's like why but this [TS]

  will be great or whatever or was he [TS]

  thinking himself or if I was still well [TS]

  and I was in charge I would say maybe [TS]

  his leave Syria you know but he wasn't [TS]

  in charge anymore so I'm [TS]

  the story i think it was in the i [TS]

  descend by or someplace else where they [TS]

  were showing steve jobs in the hospital [TS]

  serie I think it was actually forestall [TS]

  showing it to him right but Siri you [TS]

  know I've had my show where I talked [TS]

  about Siri a little bit they Apple to [TS]

  you know to its credit or detriment put [TS]

  the full force of apples company behind [TS]

  cereal the ads with Siri the celebrities [TS]

  talking to or whatever the reality of it [TS]

  was like not great and that was kind of [TS]

  acknowledged by the beta thing maps [TS]

  second rounding and we talked about this [TS]

  in the past show Apple had to take over [TS]

  maps it had to take the reins on that [TS]

  but it also had to do a good job with it [TS]

  and so they got most of that except for [TS]

  the good job part maybe not so much [TS]

  maybe it should have baked longer or [TS]

  whatever that falls at forestalls feet [TS]

  as well right and the skeuomorphic stuff [TS]

  with the you know things looking like [TS]

  leather or looking like knobs that you [TS]

  have to turn stuff like that or just [TS]

  everything being texture with linen [TS]

  everywhere every report we seniors at [TS]

  steve jobs like that and that forest all [TS]

  liked to and once you know like iOS 6 [TS]

  the OS that i would say you know is the [TS]

  moat has four stalls fingerprinted the [TS]

  most certainly he had the most power to [TS]

  influence that had a ton of that stuff [TS]

  now mango was tended to I don't know [TS]

  forestall properly didn't have any moves [TS]

  over matter was ten i'm not sure but uh [TS]

  that's why i say maybe for this year [TS]

  more big stuff and there's tons of [TS]

  stories about that like oh the whole [TS]

  reason we have these ugly skeuomorphic [TS]

  apps is because Forrestal was in charge [TS]

  now that he's gone we won't have them [TS]

  anymore I don't think that's clear so [TS]

  that's why I give that one a maybe ah [TS]

  but if you're looking for from the [TS]

  outside any possible reason why [TS]

  Forrestal should be out of the company [TS]

  just based on the visibility things we [TS]

  can see we also have Siri performed in [TS]

  what it did we all saw have maps [TS]

  performing in what it did so those two [TS]

  things combined with any possible [TS]

  personality conflict person I like [TS]

  complex alone aren't going to do it I [TS]

  don't think map someone do it I don't [TS]

  think Siri alone would do just a serious [TS]

  combination of everything yeah Syria [TS]

  plus maps plus any kind of personality [TS]

  conflict in terms in whether he's right [TS]

  or wrong with everyone else's the jerk [TS]

  and Scott Forstall is not a jerk [TS]

  regardless like those two actual [TS]

  performance related things combined with [TS]

  any kind of personality conflict no [TS]

  matter who's right and who's wrong I [TS]

  think that it adequately explains why [TS]

  Forrestal is now out and it's kind of [TS]

  said but on the other hand those two [TS]

  things Syrian maps and I we all made fun [TS]

  of the whole this would've never [TS]

  happened to Steve Jobs was there you [TS]

  know Steve Jobs had plenty of stinkers [TS]

  too but uh and seemed guys really did [TS]

  like Forrestal and it could be the Steve [TS]

  Jobs would have given him more of a [TS]

  chance sir we're taking the reins [TS]

  tighter but jobs wasn't about firing [TS]

  people either I papermaster who they [TS]

  hired from or the IBM or something he [TS]

  came and went pretty quickly to under [TS]

  the jobs era so yeah I think this this [TS]

  forestalls legacy is mostly positive but [TS]

  kind of ended on not a great note for [TS]

  Apple or for himself because it's the [TS]

  last things you did or Syrian maps maybe [TS]

  that's not such a great track record ah [TS]

  so cook getting rid of him regardless of [TS]

  any other reasons is probably a positive [TS]

  because like it's like I gave you a [TS]

  chance iOS platform has not been [TS]

  floundering it's still doing very well [TS]

  and everything but these two misses [TS]

  combined with whatever the heck's going [TS]

  on personality wise is a reason enough [TS]

  that you gotta go next one up is Johnny [TS]

  I've who we all know for many years it's [TS]

  been out for a long time industrial [TS]

  designer making up all the suit so it's [TS]

  hardware now he's going to be in it [TS]

  would be one guy in charge of human [TS]

  interface where there was never well [TS]

  there hadn't been in the jobs to error [TS]

  really anyone who had this position [TS]

  other than implicitly Steve Jobs himself [TS]

  but now there's an actual guy whose [TS]

  title is here in interface across the [TS]

  entire company and this includes both [TS]

  hardware and software cuz he's still in [TS]

  charge of industrial design and now he's [TS]

  also in charge of the human interface of [TS]

  all their software right and the [TS]

  question is now we all know what jony [TS]

  ive's industrial design taste is because [TS]

  we're all staring at and touching it and [TS]

  using it all the time like his you know [TS]

  we know what that aesthetic is what is [TS]

  his software taste do we know anything [TS]

  about what he how he feels about [TS]

  software now supposedly Johnny I've had [TS]

  a big influence on the design of the [TS]

  very first version of iOS which if you [TS]

  look at the very first version of iOS [TS]

  looks very different than iOS 6 in terms [TS]

  of just you know the look and feel of [TS]

  the thing not the operation so much just [TS]

  look in the field of the widgets and the [TS]

  textures and the way the apps are [TS]

  organized and the interfaces and stuff [TS]

  like that and you know as I said by all [TS]

  accounts for stall and jobs for [TS]

  totally on the bandwagon of they like [TS]

  like things look like they were made of [TS]

  real material looks like it's made of [TS]

  wood looks like it's made of some other [TS]

  material and they also like [TS]

  skeuomorphism where it's like well a [TS]

  real mixer control panel has knobs on it [TS]

  so when we put a mixer control panel and [TS]

  GarageBand we're gonna have knobs you're [TS]

  gonna turn them with your little fingers [TS]

  because real ones did and even though [TS]

  knobs you know that that whole thing and [TS]

  or putting big leather flaps on stuff [TS]

  and all sorts of stuff like that that [TS]

  the leather with the stitching on it [TS]

  because real calendar full pages need [TS]

  some sort of stitching to all the pages [TS]

  and the computer one doesn't but we're [TS]

  going to put it there anyway the book [TS]

  design for contacts a real contact book [TS]

  is a book and you opened it and the [TS]

  sides have to be the same size doesn't [TS]

  need to be that way in the computer but [TS]

  it was all of that supposedly is for [TS]

  stolen jobs during and as we discussed [TS]

  on the windows 8 show that I couldn't [TS]

  find anywhere when I was looking at [TS]

  windows 8 when it was introduced and you [TS]

  spend enough time staring windows 8 and [TS]

  playing with it this is before the [TS]

  service just playing with on a desktop [TS]

  and stuff like that or even just windows [TS]

  phone 7 if you just spend enough time [TS]

  with those and then you go back to your [TS]

  iOS device it makes the iOS and this is [TS]

  iOS 5 back then I think it makes the iOS [TS]

  interface look dated it looks dated in [TS]

  the way that if you were to boot up your [TS]

  current mac into jaguar 10.2 or [TS]

  something but the pinstripes would would [TS]

  blind you'd be like oh my god how did I [TS]

  even use this thing like some of that is [TS]

  fashion but some of it is also that it's [TS]

  like it's a treatment of its more heavy [TS]

  weight it's more to made look like a [TS]

  texture like a material and not not that [TS]

  I'm saying that Windows 8 is like nicer [TS]

  looking or better looking observe one of [TS]

  the UI has problems as well but just in [TS]

  terms of which one of these you know so [TS]

  it's like an analogy current mac west [TS]

  you know pinstripes is the current Mac [TS]

  os10 as current iOS you know six is two [TS]

  as to what it spending time with Windows [TS]

  8 it makes windows it look like the [TS]

  natural evolution of four get rid of [TS]

  these details don't pile more on and [TS]

  both the mac and iOS have been sort of [TS]

  reversing that where they've been adding [TS]

  more texture more materials more more [TS]

  stuff that is sort of decorative and [TS]

  maybe superfluous or whatever that [TS]

  doesn't necessarily the [TS]

  that one approach is better than the [TS]

  other just that kind of feel that you [TS]

  have when you look at like Oh remember [TS]

  how Mac os10 used to be and you look at [TS]

  that and it feels old that's the way iOS [TS]

  feels to current iOS feels to me after [TS]

  using Windows 8 so that that's it that's [TS]

  you know that something that's in the [TS]

  air at least at least I feel I may be [TS]

  other people feel different way about [TS]

  now jony ive is reportedly against that [TS]

  that all those trends and here's his [TS]

  interview from may 2012 that I put in [TS]

  the Charlotte's the Gruber link to from [TS]

  a telegraph in the UK and it's talking [TS]

  about skeuomorphism and all stuff like [TS]

  that and talk about this is when the [TS]

  calendar app had a leather on and stuff [TS]

  like that and the interviewer says when [TS]

  I mentioned the fake stitching I've [TS]

  offers a wince but it's a gesture of [TS]

  sympathy rather than a suggestion that [TS]

  he just like such things at least that's [TS]

  how I read it so the author of his [TS]

  articles trying to be charitable and [TS]

  saying that I've winces when he mentions [TS]

  the leather on the calendar I think it's [TS]

  a pretty clear indication that Johnny I [TS]

  was not in favor of putting the leather [TS]

  and the stitching on the count right but [TS]

  he's trying to sell well it's nothing [TS]

  doesn't like it it's just that it's not [TS]

  simple and so here's the video continues [TS]

  that I've refuses to be drawn on the [TS]

  matter offering a diplomatic reply and [TS]

  this is a quote from I've my focus is [TS]

  very much working with other teams on [TS]

  products and ideas been developing [TS]

  hardware so that's our focus and that's [TS]

  our responsibility in terms of those [TS]

  elements that you're talking about I'm [TS]

  not really connected to that and when [TS]

  Gruber posted this exact excerpt on his [TS]

  forestall outpost which has the correct [TS]

  URL forestall underscore out as Gruber [TS]

  says he's connected now is connected now [TS]

  well it used to be like oh I'm not [TS]

  really connected to the software well [TS]

  now you're in charge of the software so [TS]

  presumably it's hard to imagine that the [TS]

  level of real-world materials [TS]

  heavyweight user interface comforting [TS]

  decorative things that remind us of [TS]

  physical objects that's got to go down [TS]

  now it's just got out because if he's [TS]

  wincing at like when we just put leather [TS]

  on the calendar surely he's not in favor [TS]

  of those damn reel-to-reel things [TS]

  turning in the podcast app right like [TS]

  that is just way over the edge now it [TS]

  doesn't mean that you know sudden garage [TS]

  bands not gonna have a little fake piano [TS]

  on it of course it's going to like this [TS]

  appropriate points for these things you [TS]

  wanted to have a gorgeous looking fake [TS]

  piano or the little the fake drums and [TS]

  stuff like that but maybe not for the [TS]

  podcast app with a reel-to-reel like [TS]

  that is probably over the line and I [TS]

  to imagine that the amount of this stuff [TS]

  we see and it is two categories of stuff [TS]

  it's not just all skeuomorphic the [TS]

  skeuomorphism making little virtual [TS]

  knobs and stuff and then there's making [TS]

  things look like they're made it real [TS]

  materials and textured looks and stuff [TS]

  like that and that's more of an [TS]

  aesthetic thing both of those seem like [TS]

  they have to go down with I've and most [TS]

  people are happy about that because they [TS]

  feel like it's gone too far in the other [TS]

  direction I possible dangers with I've [TS]

  taking over here judging by his hardware [TS]

  I've has a little bit of a tendency to [TS]

  make things a bit simpler and cleaner [TS]

  than they should be like he you know [TS]

  he's enamored with beautiful simple [TS]

  elegant designs but at some point you [TS]

  also have to use the thing he's always [TS]

  trying to balance that to make it usable [TS]

  but also beautiful and simple and [TS]

  sometimes he goes the wrong way hockey [TS]

  puck mouse I'm not sure if he was for or [TS]

  against that but he was he was an [TS]

  industrial designer an apple when that [TS]

  happen Steve Jobs sure loved it maybe he [TS]

  told Steve Jobs this little circle mouse [TS]

  was just a little concept drawing but [TS]

  you can't ship this thing Steve we don't [TS]

  know what was going on but the but you [TS]

  know you have to assign the hockey puck [TS]

  mouse of somebody and he was the [TS]

  industrial designer at that point and he [TS]

  was behind the imac and all that other [TS]

  stuff and they shipped a circular mouse [TS]

  it was hard to tell which way was up it [TS]

  looked beautiful nice and symmetrical [TS]

  and even and you know look it's a [TS]

  beautiful circle but horribly key is you [TS]

  know they can't be served as you can't [TS]

  tell which way is up and you got a feel [TS]

  for the cord with your fingers and they [TS]

  put a little dent on it and now you're [TS]

  caught that must have pained him so much [TS]

  like the whole point of the circular [TS]

  mounted have a beautiful uniform [TS]

  symmetrical thing and you're gonna put a [TS]

  divot in my design because people can't [TS]

  find the front of it like that must have [TS]

  killed him oh also the ports on the [TS]

  underside of the cube the ports in the [TS]

  back of the imac in the montour it's [TS]

  like well you don't want all these [TS]

  things to be visible somewhere we want [TS]

  the ports to be in the back so you can [TS]

  route all the cables through our little [TS]

  hole on the stand on the imac in it but [TS]

  if you're constantly plugging and [TS]

  plugging stuff any pc vendor would have [TS]

  put at least one port facing forward or [TS]

  one port on the side for practical [TS]

  reasons and I've comes down on the other [TS]

  side of it's not elegant it's not [TS]

  beautiful it's ugly to have those things [TS]

  visible I want them all on the back or [TS]

  on the cube I want them all on the [TS]

  underside even if it's more difficult to [TS]

  like reach around the back your computer [TS]

  and feel where the things are and stick [TS]

  them in there so he does tend to on the [TS]

  hardware side anyway go a little bit too [TS]

  far in the direction of elegance and [TS]

  simplicity [TS]

  without perhaps as much thought towards [TS]

  how you're actually gonna use this thing [TS]

  like if you think about things that are [TS]

  done the opposite way like oxxo was a [TS]

  good example especially in the past now [TS]

  maybe they're losing the plot a little [TS]

  bit but back in the day oxxo made [TS]

  products for people with arthritis if [TS]

  you have difficulty you know opening a [TS]

  can with a can opener are using some of [TS]

  the tool we're gonna make tools that are [TS]

  specially designed for people who have [TS]

  you know disabilities with their hands [TS]

  and those things things that are made to [TS]

  be you know all we care about is can you [TS]

  use this thing with the least amount of [TS]

  effort with the most mechanical [TS]

  efficiency with you know without it [TS]

  being slippery without requiring fine [TS]

  motor skills without require a lot of [TS]

  strength those things are ugly is sin [TS]

  like they're not beautiful looking as we [TS]

  said on the game controller episode you [TS]

  know the negative space created by a [TS]

  gripping or poking or whatever hand is [TS]

  ugly it's not it's not attractive but if [TS]

  all you care about is ergonomics you end [TS]

  up with things that are great to use [TS]

  like the old ox 0 stuff but do not look [TS]

  elegant at all are not nice looking our [TS]

  awkward strange really weird but that's [TS]

  not what you're focusing on uh I've [TS]

  stuff has not been like that I've stuff [TS]

  is not like ox oh it's been more like [TS]

  you know the monolith in 2010 you know [TS]

  all these designs are just remove [TS]

  everything already tails are gone also I [TS]

  guess make it so that you know it you [TS]

  could hold it in your hand or whatever [TS]

  but if there's a line there's a balance [TS]

  between those two ends of the spectrum [TS]

  he has been way over on the visual [TS]

  simplicity and physical simplicity is [TS]

  more important than ergonomics does that [TS]

  have an analog in the soccer world maybe [TS]

  there's a lot of reading the tea leaves [TS]

  about this I've seen on Twitter and on [TS]

  app.net in the past few days one of them [TS]

  is a people bring up hives wardrobe that [TS]

  apparently the clothing designer that he [TS]

  likes doesn't necessarily reflect Jesus [TS]

  g-star I don't know what that is do you [TS]

  know what that is that is the clothing [TS]

  manufacturer now I don't know that he [TS]

  likes the clothing manufacturer I know [TS]

  that he wears the g star t-shirts I'm [TS]

  I'm I'm not saying that he doesn't like [TS]

  the clothing manufacturer I'm just [TS]

  saying that he's always picture he [TS]

  always wears the same g-star t-shirt in [TS]

  a variety of different neutral colors [TS]

  and his famously pointed out that if you [TS]

  go to the Apple [TS]

  well you know page the appeal executive [TS]

  committee or the you know like their [TS]

  page that has all the executive people [TS]

  on it that he is the only one there who [TS]

  is wearing I he may be the only one in a [TS]

  t-shirt but he's the only one who's [TS]

  clothing has a logo on it and is the g [TS]

  star logo just above the cuff of his [TS]

  sleeve a short sleeve shirt and I don't [TS]

  I don't know if the other garments that [TS]

  he wears are also g-star or if it's just [TS]

  the t-shirt that's g-star and you know [TS]

  like I've got a shirt on from banana [TS]

  republic that doesn't mean that I like [TS]

  banana republic or that I don't like [TS]

  banana republic or that all my t-shirts [TS]

  are color clothing and from there it [TS]

  just means I'm wearing a banana republic [TS]

  shirt today and I think that's probably [TS]

  people people seem to think that he [TS]

  likes the manufacturer for some reason I [TS]

  don't know why this is well regardless [TS]

  of the clothing manufacturer and I know [TS]

  nothing about building your friend she [TS]

  start really previously established jisa [TS]

  his physical outward appearance [TS]

  especially post head shaving as [TS]

  reflected as men osha's get rid of [TS]

  everything extra it has matched his [TS]

  devices like yeah Johnny I of the [TS]

  physical manifestation that we know from [TS]

  like a little you know videos and stuff [TS]

  is like simple clean not a lot of [TS]

  ornamentation you don't need the hair [TS]

  anymore just we started from the [TS]

  beginning and rethought the head we said [TS]

  what is this do we need hair no we don't [TS]

  need it like so that lends itself to the [TS]

  idea that that his tastes and hardware [TS]

  transferred to other realms now someone [TS]

  I think it was Nevin Mergen put a link [TS]

  into what is supposedly I of Johnny odds [TS]

  car apparently he bought drives a [TS]

  bentley brooklands now first of all he's [TS]

  driving a Bentley because I'm assuming [TS]

  because he was born in the UK because if [TS]

  you're just picking cars based on the [TS]

  quality of the cars from an automotive [TS]

  perspective Bentley's are beautifully [TS]

  built but not really you know about [TS]

  handling or performance or modern [TS]

  anything really ah and I put a link to [TS]

  this post in the show note that has a [TS]

  shot of the Interior and the interior of [TS]

  a Bentley does not look like an imac it [TS]

  does not look like jony ive's wardrobe [TS]

  it is filled with chrome and leather and [TS]

  it looks it looks more like an [TS]

  ios6 application looks like find my [TS]

  friends right and that that's you know [TS]

  it is that is counter to jony ive's [TS]

  hardware taste and apparently his [TS]

  wardrobe taste but he's chosen this car [TS]

  and apparently he likes this car and I [TS]

  point this out just to to highlight the [TS]

  idea that it's not safe to assume that a [TS]

  person's taste in one area extends to [TS]

  all other areas of his life and example [TS]

  the spring to mind for me is we all know [TS]

  somebody who's like a crazy Stanley [TS]

  Kubrick superfan and not specifically [TS]

  talking about Gruber but it's any better [TS]

  we all know someone who's like into [TS]

  Stanley Kubrick but Stanley Kubrick [TS]

  superfans don't all have meticulously [TS]

  arranged houses with spare furniture [TS]

  arrangements and vast expanses of clean [TS]

  white walls it is entirely normal for [TS]

  you to be a huge fan of apple devices or [TS]

  Stanley Kubrick or anything else with a [TS]

  very particular aesthetic and till when [TS]

  you live your life to just have dirty [TS]

  laundry everywhere and your house is a [TS]

  mess or maybe you're even a hoarder who [TS]

  knows like there it doesn't just figure [TS]

  you have taste in one area doesn't mean [TS]

  it transfers the area so that's why I [TS]

  want to warn against looking at Johnny [TS]

  ABS wardrobe and how he does hardware [TS]

  and stuff like that and saying therefore [TS]

  his software is going to look like his [TS]

  Hardware because I know there are plenty [TS]

  of places in my life where I have a [TS]

  particular taste and that does not [TS]

  transfer at all to other parts of my [TS]

  life like you know I don't cook like I [TS]

  program I don't program like I keep [TS]

  house like it's just people very good at [TS]

  compartmentalizing things and yeah [TS]

  hardware and software might seem like [TS]

  they're related but I think you know it [TS]

  I think there Johnny I was much more of [TS]

  a wild card in the software around the [TS]

  only thing that gives me reassurances if [TS]

  the story about him having a big [TS]

  influence of the original iOS version of [TS]

  iOS is true then that gives us Dean ok [TS]

  now we know a little bit about of [TS]

  software taste and i and i like it i [TS]

  think most people would like it so in [TS]

  the end i think i've taken over for a [TS]

  human interface I think we'll see less [TS]

  of the textured and the skeuomorphic [TS]

  stuff and I am cautiously optimistic [TS]

  about it but I think there is definitely [TS]

  someone certain to there and everyone's [TS]

  talk about how soon will we see [TS]

  something that reflects these tastes I [TS]

  don't know I mean there's certainly [TS]

  thinks he can do short term that are [TS]

  fast but like certainly by like 10 9 [TS]

  maybe maybe 10 9 Joe that certainly [TS]

  about iOS 7 I feel like iOS 7 comes out [TS]

  that should have jony ive's fingerprint [TS]

  on on the UI not just the look of it but [TS]

  how it works and you know whether he's [TS]

  move settings around and change the UI's [TS]

  of the application and stuff like that [TS]

  then we'll know what we should be [TS]

  complaining about with him maybe I'll [TS]

  make things too simple and remove a [TS]

  bunch of options because he didn't think [TS]

  they were necessary and people will be [TS]

  angry or maybe he'll just look I make [TS]

  everything look much nicer I don't so [TS]

  cautiously optimistic on him Eddy Cue [TS]

  he's taking over Syrian maps so he gets [TS]

  that like you know since far stall [TS]

  exploded and the pieces get distributed [TS]

  so the piece about user interface I've [TS]

  gets that the Syrian maps thing Eddy Cue [TS]

  takes over that and he's kind of the [TS]

  fixer it seems like for antman as a [TS]

  server side component he took over from [TS]

  mobileme I believe in the past and that [TS]

  was just such a cluster and like you [TS]

  would think I'll man you don't want to [TS]

  be that executive like this is a big [TS]

  mess and jobs is angry and he comes all [TS]

  right you take over and you fix that and [TS]

  it's like you know that's pressure right [TS]

  but he rose to that I guess you would [TS]

  say and came up with icloud which for [TS]

  what you may say about it is certainly [TS]

  better than mobilni was certainly a more [TS]

  compelling product but still has his own [TS]

  problems he's in charge Siri maps itunes [TS]

  store the bookstore iCloud itunes match [TS]

  his record is ok he's probably the guy [TS]

  with the best record inside Apple at [TS]

  doing online services but as we've [TS]

  discussed many many times in pet shows [TS]

  out this is still not Apple strength [TS]

  iTunes Match as an example I enable that [TS]

  I think I talked about this in Apache I [TS]

  enabled that recently it didn't work the [TS]

  first several times I tried it were just [TS]

  grind for a long time then failed an [TS]

  obscure error then it finally worked but [TS]

  then some tracks expla khalif ailed to [TS]

  upload and there's no real visibility [TS]

  into whether it's working or not and [TS]

  we've all heard about iCloud woes [TS]

  Merlin's talked about in his shows and I [TS]

  can do flaky things and you really have [TS]

  no recourse you don't know why it's not [TS]

  working you just sit there and hope and [TS]

  pray that it works again you know if the [TS]

  server the client or both Game Center [TS]

  recently we're all playing letterpress [TS]

  are you pointing letterpress oh yeah [TS]

  you're not playing plenum press with me [TS]

  anyway I'm cuz yeah I don't know how to [TS]

  get you on there yeah that's the problem [TS]

  this problem Game Center speaking of [TS]

  online services it shouldn't be easier [TS]

  for like me to find you and to send you [TS]

  a request and stuff like that it's like [TS]

  it'll even look at R address book and if [TS]

  you used it you know like a different [TS]

  account then [TS]

  the one that I have you down for oh well [TS]

  yeah like I I there's plenty people who [TS]

  I know their email address i know the [TS]

  twitter address i know them personally [TS]

  and yet i can't find them in kingston [TS]

  i'm adding you right now there yep I'm [TS]

  and you should be able to add them by [TS]

  username like you can pick a username [TS]

  for game son I can tell you what my user [TS]

  it's just my name you know John Serkis [TS]

  with space in the middle but you can't [TS]

  add based on that anyway letterpress [TS]

  seem to from external appearances crush [TS]

  game center just like the matchmaking [TS]

  thing like when the game came out it was [TS]

  very popular this is a Victor's new word [TS]

  matching game that a lot of publicity in [TS]

  the macworld but come on how big could [TS]

  it are really bent like it's not like [TS]

  words with friends Calvary yeah and our [TS]

  little nerd circles were all popular [TS]

  yeah I know I was like the number one [TS]

  and number two paid app for the first [TS]

  day or whatever but that's like a nerd [TS]

  bump I feel like you know my mother [TS]

  doesn't know what letterpress is but my [TS]

  mother knows what words with friends is [TS]

  you know and it's not angry birds level [TS]

  and yet because it used game center as [TS]

  its back end it you know and maybe game [TS]

  center had been used that much or hadn't [TS]

  been tested it kind of fell over and [TS]

  that that's embarrassing for Apple [TS]

  Google still does all this stuff better [TS]

  an apple still does not seem to have a [TS]

  server-side culture and we've talked [TS]

  about in past shows what other companies [TS]

  do but at this point I think we have to [TS]

  say with iCloud an itunes match and Game [TS]

  Center like all these things that Apple [TS]

  is doing at this point Apple really [TS]

  should be doing what all the other big [TS]

  guys do before I was contrasting it and [TS]

  saying here's what Google does here so [TS]

  the Facebook dog and apple doesn't do [TS]

  that and how can they ever be as good as [TS]

  that but now Apple has so many things [TS]

  online and so many essential important [TS]

  parts that I cloud is essential for iOS [TS]

  which is its money maker right and [TS]

  iTunes Match an itunes store like and [TS]

  you know even things like Game Center [TS]

  this is you know the Apple is as much an [TS]

  online service company at this point as [TS]

  something like Google practically Apple [TS]

  this point should be building its own [TS]

  servers writing some of its own server [TS]

  side infrastructure saw we're doing all [TS]

  the things that Facebook Amazon and [TS]

  Google do in the Apple as far as me out [TS]

  does not do Apple should not be using [TS]

  when Windows Azure at which it [TS]

  reportedly was it should not be leaning [TS]

  on oracle and EMC to solve its problems [TS]

  it really has to get a server-side [TS]

  culture I mean just steal Google's [TS]

  entire operation team and pay them [TS]

  gazillions of dollars you got but if I [TS]

  had to say what should Apple do with its [TS]

  building some dollars i mean maybe they [TS]

  can't buy these guys [TS]

  but in the fantasy world where that [TS]

  money could transfer into getting [TS]

  Google's entire operations and that's [TS]

  what Apple would need if they could if [TS]

  applicant wish one things into existence [TS]

  it would be give us a server-side [TS]

  operations team as good as Google or [TS]

  maybe even Amazon's because both of [TS]

  those guys you know and Facebook is kind [TS]

  of just slap things together but like [TS]

  even Twitter even Twitter's has even [TS]

  with all the fail whale stuff has like [TS]

  seemed to get its act together and [TS]

  apples still after all this time doesn't [TS]

  have its act together so Eddy Cue still [TS]

  has a smart cut out for him uh and i [TS]

  think i think it's a cultural thing more [TS]

  than like oh this one executive can snap [TS]

  his fingers make this happen it's got to [TS]

  be some kind of change its going to [TS]

  happen inside Apple to to recognize that [TS]

  you're not the company than X iphones [TS]

  and ipads or the company that spends [TS]

  half its resources doing this invisible [TS]

  server side stuff that you don't think [TS]

  it is important that you just want to go [TS]

  away that you just want to pay a vendor [TS]

  to do but you can't because this is now [TS]

  a core competency of your company and [TS]

  you got it you got to get handle on it [TS]

  frustrating craig federighi will now [TS]

  lead both iOS and OS 10 / trance early [TS]

  the guy who used to be in charge of just [TS]

  OS 10 he was the OS 10 guy when [TS]

  Forrestal was the iOS guy but Ron [TS]

  retired in an actual you know not [TS]

  retired from working but left Apple on [TS]

  good terms of his own accord went off to [TS]

  do his own interesting things and start [TS]

  his own startups and do stuff like that [TS]

  uh and he endorsed on his way out the [TS]

  door endorsed credit craig federighi as [TS]

  his successor uh and so federighi is [TS]

  coming in he was super nervous in this [TS]

  first time he was in a keynote with his [TS]

  hand shaking on the mouse trying to [TS]

  demonstrate gestures be out so yeah [TS]

  coming to his own like this is all we [TS]

  see it as executive it's so hard to like [TS]

  you're gonna talk about an executor and [TS]

  all you're gonna talk about is the 10 [TS]

  minutes they were on stage but that's [TS]

  all we see them like we see them when [TS]

  they do keynotes and does not be shaken [TS]

  when you're up there yeah but he you [TS]

  know that that's our proxy for judging [TS]

  how he's doing inside the company in the [TS]

  beginning you know that's those are big [TS]

  shoes to fill and then but now like in [TS]

  the most recent one he's got the hair [TS]

  force one joke which worked well for him [TS]

  and he's getting the personality and [TS]

  people started to like him when he seems [TS]

  more confident so he's in charge of [TS]

  Austin [TS]

  uh it always tends technical stewardship [TS]

  I think this is a complete list maybe [TS]

  I'm missing some of the year but start [TS]

  off with avi tuve nyan in the beginning [TS]

  and then he retired to become a venture [TS]

  capitalist so let's say you know an [TS]

  amicable parting of ways but Ron's early [TS]

  took over there and then he went off to [TS]

  do his startup thing Amika parting of [TS]

  ways and he hands it off to Craig [TS]

  federighi who's the current guy all [TS]

  those people are X next guys which maybe [TS]

  is not that surprising given the sort of [TS]

  inverse takeover of next of Apple you [TS]

  know of Apple by next but it basically [TS]

  means that there's never been a from the [TS]

  beginning quote-unquote mac guy in [TS]

  charge of mac OS 10 it's always been [TS]

  next guys and there's a little bit of a [TS]

  checkered history there especially back [TS]

  in the day where the people who just [TS]

  became a creatures recently probably [TS]

  don't remember this but there was a big [TS]

  tension between the Apple guys and the [TS]

  next guys about what you should do with [TS]

  the next generation operating system one [TS]

  infamous incident from 2003 involving [TS]

  avi to manian was the the tech note 2034 [TS]

  kerfuffle this I put a link to Gruber's [TS]

  post about it at the time called the [TS]

  good the bad and the avi technote 2034 [TS]

  Gruber describes it as being so [TS]

  inflammatory and in places so ludicrous [TS]

  that Apple withdrew it after howls of [TS]

  derision from professional Mac [TS]

  developers it's interesting to go back [TS]

  and look at these things now so I he has [TS]

  gruber thoughtfully has a link to the [TS]

  PDF of this which I put in the show [TS]

  notes you can actually read this because [TS]

  ambil did remove this technote from its [TS]

  side and tech notes are like technical [TS]

  documents for developers like why would [TS]

  you ever have to remove one so this one [TS]

  was written by supposedly substantially [TS]

  written by a bee demeaning himself the [TS]

  next guy in charge of what was supposed [TS]

  to be the next Mac operating system [TS]

  which had all the mac users all and huff [TS]

  and here are some of the crazy ludicrous [TS]

  things that it's it avoid using resource [TS]

  Forks and you know Mac was intended to [TS]

  be an excellent web citizen don't use [TS]

  resource works they're not supported by [TS]

  web dev NFS SMB blah blah blah you know [TS]

  hfs+ still supports them but don't do [TS]

  that anymore use file extensions stead [TS]

  of sync file name extension CSS file [TS]

  extensions if your application creates [TS]

  documents those documents should be [TS]

  saved with the filename extension [TS]

  because I much more durable and blah [TS]

  blah blah don't use type creatorcode [TS]

  codes are these don't rely on them [TS]

  investigate using paths based file [TS]

  system API it's not even very forceful [TS]

  you should really investigate those [TS]

  paths based file system API Isis paths [TS]

  revised native access to files and I go [TS]

  is 10 all other mechanisms like FS refs [TS]

  and FS specs which are various [TS]

  structures from the old Mac world that [TS]

  lets you track a file independent of its [TS]

  path on disk like their unique [TS]

  identifier or some combination of this [TS]

  stuff says all those things are built on [TS]

  top of pests and therefore encourage [TS]

  some performance cost this costs can be [TS]

  considerable when converting back and [TS]

  forth between past so you're saying [TS]

  don't you use just Pat string you know [TS]

  string path / whatever / whatever don't [TS]

  use these higher level constructs that [TS]

  are more durable because there's a [TS]

  performance cost of doing these things [TS]

  he says cocoa is the quickest way to [TS]

  develop a mangosteen application so you [TS]

  should totally use cocoa that's a slight [TS]

  at carbon which was the transitional API [TS]

  but at that time was basically the Mac [TS]

  API in the form they ran in Mac OS 10 be [TS]

  judicious about using C++ for new [TS]

  development he slammed C++ in a very [TS]

  cautious way saying a low c plus so c++ [TS]

  provides several attractive features [TS]

  especially for application developers [TS]

  experience has shown that it also [TS]

  presents a couple of risks to be guarded [TS]

  against and goes through fragile base [TS]

  class stuff and all all the areas where [TS]

  objector seems better than C++ saying [TS]

  maybe think real hard about doing that [TS]

  uh and this technote that i read that [TS]

  probably sounds either nonsensical are [TS]

  certainly not crazy or ludicrous was [TS]

  pulled because of the backlash from the [TS]

  then big community of existing Mac [TS]

  developers who were suspicious of this [TS]

  whole crazy next world they're like [TS]

  you're telling me all the crap that I do [TS]

  to make mac apps is terrible and you [TS]

  want me to use your next stuff and let [TS]

  me tell you while your next stuff is [TS]

  terrible and so that was like a PR [TS]

  problem they pulled that techno so I [TS]

  think to this day it goes like twenty [TS]

  thirty three and twenty thirty five [TS]

  twenty thirty four is gone but many of [TS]

  the things that I be recommended [TS]

  actually came to past filename [TS]

  extensions are used everywhere in Mac OS [TS]

  10 now resource fork is deprecated [TS]

  carbon stopped at 32-bit did not [TS]

  continue into 64 bit it's basically gone [TS]

  not gone but you know on its way out so [TS]

  Coco was the way to do you know he was [TS]

  right you should use cocoa to do that [TS]

  stuff not all the things that came to [TS]

  pass aren't necessarily good things that [TS]

  in particular I think the filename [TS]

  extension thing was a big mistake and [TS]

  they could have done a better compromise [TS]

  they're not by using resource Forks not [TS]

  by using H of [TS]

  type creator codes but simply by making [TS]

  a new canonical representation of file [TS]

  type information and merely having the [TS]

  file extend filename extension be [TS]

  reflection of that anyway I've discussed [TS]

  this at length with Barry's people at [TS]

  many times that ship has sailed Pat's [TS]

  instead of FS refs and I vest specs that [TS]

  was just plain bad advice and luckily [TS]

  that one didn't come to pass because [TS]

  paths are not as durable and those you [TS]

  know those things have a performance or [TS]

  bread yes they do have a performance [TS]

  overhead but in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things it's much better to have a higher [TS]

  level construct it keeps track of where [TS]

  your files are regardless of their path [TS]

  and Coco does have that now and carbon [TS]

  had it earlier and so on so forth so [TS]

  that was bad advice but in general the [TS]

  things he was recommending were like he [TS]

  was ahead of everyone else in saying oh [TS]

  this is the way things are gonna happen [TS]

  this is what its gonna look like in the [TS]

  future you should start doing this now [TS]

  and Mac Mac developers didn't want to [TS]

  hear and I think on the most part it was [TS]

  good advice and he was right but there [TS]

  are a few things in there under his [TS]

  stewardship they were wrong and had long [TS]

  lasting effects on the operating system [TS]

  like waiting so long to get a good [TS]

  construct in Cocoa that keeps track of [TS]

  files as well as the old carbon api's [TS]

  did was bad and made cocoa applications [TS]

  look worse than they should have been in [TS]

  the early days of cocoa and it was just [TS]

  needlessly antagonistic because he was [TS]

  just wrong on that like it you have to [TS]

  have an API to keep track of stuff don't [TS]

  investigate file-based paths you know [TS]

  and c++ now that's come and gone but the [TS]

  Apple is of two minds about c++ I would [TS]

  say he was mostly right on that one per [TS]

  transfer lays rain was much less [TS]

  controversial for better or worse the [TS]

  decisions that avi made that stuck [TS]

  continued when Searle a was there uh you [TS]

  know there wasn't any big reversal [TS]

  anything like that the big thing that [TS]

  I'm going to land at the feet of [TS]

  Bertrand is the file system crisis which [TS]

  was that hfs+ is old and crappy and they [TS]

  need something new and that was [TS]

  acknowledged and they were gonna go with [TS]

  ZFS but then it didn't work that was you [TS]

  know he couldn't it just didn't get that [TS]

  done in his in his reign it's something [TS]

  that still needs to be done he made a [TS]

  good effort at it and just didn't work [TS]

  out with a ZFS thing which is a shame [TS]

  maybe that was more core OS and not some [TS]

  what I think that falls under silliest [TS]

  thing but yeah I think that is the if [TS]

  you got to say what in general nag was [TS]

  tended great [TS]

  under Sir lay you know that was it sort [TS]

  of salad days speaking of past show [TS]

  titles uh everything about it got better [TS]

  everything about it improved and it was [TS]

  all all roses except for the file system [TS]

  thing which just didn't get solved and [TS]

  still not solved Cora storage helps but [TS]

  it's not a new file system um is a [TS]

  little thing I putting the show it's [TS]

  from o malli' qoran Malachi like to say [TS]

  um that I think that's wrong I think [TS]

  it's yeah i think it's um I like ohm I [TS]

  don't know the meditating it's [TS]

  meditative yeah and this is one of those [TS]

  you know finding sources from inside [TS]

  Apple about Forrestal and so on and so [TS]

  forth but this section is about [TS]

  Federalist many feel that Craig [TS]

  federighi federighi who's taking over [TS]

  for our souls job in addition to [TS]

  overseeing the mac OS software business [TS]

  if someone who needs to prove himself he [TS]

  is not a decisive his Forrestal not as [TS]

  decisive end divisive is forestall so [TS]

  you know by many accounts Forrestal like [TS]

  jobs i can imagine had many adherence [TS]

  within the company who are very devoted [TS]

  to him and now they've had their leader [TS]

  taken from them violently like he didn't [TS]

  leave on his own they fired him those [TS]

  people are cranky and craig federighi [TS]

  the guy who used to just be in charge of [TS]

  mac OS 10 is now in charge of both mac [TS]

  OS 10 and iOS things gonna oh here's [TS]

  your new daddy iOS developers and sis [TS]

  federighi you might not even know and i [TS]

  can imagine him having a little bit of [TS]

  uphill battle to get buy-in from all [TS]

  those guys especially the guys who were [TS]

  forced all forestall loyalists uh but [TS]

  overall I'm very optimistic about him [TS]

  particularly because for tron gives him [TS]

  the thumbs up uh he seems he seems like [TS]

  a great mix of avi and Bertrand where [TS]

  avi was very sort of opinionated and [TS]

  very rooted in the way next did things [TS]

  was the right way to do things so maybe [TS]

  he was you know he he saw farther than [TS]

  Mac developers but he didn't see far [TS]

  enough he didn't he didn't he didn't [TS]

  recognize the way competing was going in [TS]

  the future and you know made some bad [TS]

  decisions early on that didn't really [TS]

  hurt the operating system that much but [TS]

  they are kind of a shame because it was [TS]

  the first guy in right sir leigh was [TS]

  much more pragmatic and really just [TS]

  presided over the greatest development [TS]

  of mac OS 10 brought it from this little [TS]

  operating system was slow and ugly or [TS]

  whatever into this awesome thing that we [TS]

  all love and federighi took over that [TS]

  ship and [TS]

  seems like he was it's hard to tell how [TS]

  much influence the Forrestal aesthetic [TS]

  had on him because federighi has been in [TS]

  charge during the time when maca was [TS]

  tennis in suddenly sprouting leather and [TS]

  crap how much does that is him and how [TS]

  much is that is just him not resisting [TS]

  those things or whatever but now he's in [TS]

  charge of both os's and certainly him [TS]

  combined with I've will be able to now [TS]

  say whatever comes out in 10 point 9 and [TS]

  10 point 10 and iOS 7 now we'll have an [TS]

  angle on both of their tastes [TS]

  technically speaking federighi still has [TS]

  the file system thing to deal with Korra [TS]

  storage views and drive all good things [TS]

  hm s+ still not a good thing still still [TS]

  a problem that is his probably his major [TS]

  technical challenge that in continuing [TS]

  to morph OS 10 to have all the great [TS]

  qualities that iOS has in terms of [TS]

  performance and everything uh so I'm [TS]

  pretty optimistic but I federighi but he [TS]

  he he I think he does has proved himself [TS]

  and finally yes that's gonna nother long [TS]

  episode I know it would be Bob Mansfield [TS]

  he's back he's leading the new [TS]

  technologies group which is the most [TS]

  vague name you could possibly have in a [TS]

  company like Apple what the hell is [TS]

  technology what is it what is in [TS]

  technology and Apple its technologies [TS]

  it's plural yeah but then then the [TS]

  description this is from the press [TS]

  release Bob mannsville will lead a new [TS]

  group technologies which combines all of [TS]

  apple's wireless teams across the [TS]

  company in one organization fostering [TS]

  innovation in this area at even higher [TS]

  level how the heck does technologies map [TS]

  in any way to wireless but there you go [TS]

  that's the description all that bowls [TS]

  wireless teams that's the people who do [TS]

  Wi-Fi people to do cellular data [TS]

  everything that is being unified and [TS]

  this is part of the Tim Cook [TS]

  reorganization is doing it different [TS]

  than jobs did where jobs didn't want to [TS]

  have one guy in charge of user interface [TS]

  and one guy in charge of software and [TS]

  one guy in charge of hardware he want to [TS]

  do your the Iowas guy you're the mac guy [TS]

  you're the ipod guy and like so we had [TS]

  different teams because the ipod team [TS]

  wanted to do the phone but then you know [TS]

  so did I forget who the other team was [TS]

  it was in the rain but like it was [TS]

  broken up by like you just do iPods and [TS]

  you do the ipods offering you to the mac [TS]

  hardware you to the max over now [TS]

  hardware did get kind of unified during [TS]

  jon rubinstein and mansfield himself and [TS]

  I started to consolidate that but it was [TS]

  never like it is now where it's like [TS]

  both their operating systems one guy in [TS]

  charge [TS]

  that and one guy in charge of all [TS]

  wireless iron met [TS]

  wireless iron met [TS]

  it would be like the wireless so the [TS]

  iphones got a team and the wireless for [TS]

  the max have attainment so on and so [TS]

  forth so they're unifying this all right [TS]

  and why that's called technologies who [TS]

  knows the next part says this [TS]

  organization will also include the [TS]

  semiconductor teams who have ambitious [TS]

  plans for the future now it gets more [TS]

  interesting because semiconductor stuff [TS]

  interesting things have been happening [TS]

  in Apple lately about that like they [TS]

  bought p i semi and intrinsic a ms that [TS]

  people in like the GPU stuff and the [TS]

  fruits of that came out with basically a [TS]

  six which appears to be a custom design [TS]

  hand laid out processor that seems to [TS]

  give apple an edge in terms of power [TS]

  consumption and performance and they're [TS]

  using it in their products and that bill [TS]

  that's like the fruits of their of their [TS]

  labor there versus just licensing an arm [TS]

  core and then paying someone to [TS]

  integrate it with a bunch of other [TS]

  pieces and make a system-on-a-chip and [TS]

  stuff like that what could their [TS]

  ambitious plans be the first thing that [TS]

  sprung to mind for me was not mobile [TS]

  making their own mobile cpus because [TS]

  they're already kind of doing that it [TS]

  was he's in charge of all wireless and [TS]

  he's in charge of semiconductor and they [TS]

  have ambitious plans maybe I belongs to [TS]

  start making some wireless chips like [TS]

  instead of using Qualcomm and Broadcom [TS]

  chips I don't see a competitive [TS