92: The Tim Cook Era
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this is hypercritical weekly talk show
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ruminating on exactly what is wrong in
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the world of Apple and related
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technologies and businesses nothing is
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so perfect that it can't be complained
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about by my friend and yours John
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siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin today is
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Friday November second 2012 episode
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number 92 far beloved hypercritical we
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would like to say thanks very much to
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our three sponsors for making this
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program possible Shopify com lynda.com
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and shutterstock.com we also want to
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thank so much new band was sponsor for
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month november my note and into dove my
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mapping app for mac and iOS whether
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you're brainstorming for your next
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project organizing your life planning
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your vacation no matter minor lets you
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collect structured expand your ideas god
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I'd cloud sharing built-in have your
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mind maps with you wherever you go check
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them out at mind node dot-com good
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afternoon hello how are you doing this
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fine day how is the weather how is your
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power situation how are things holding
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up in the Northeast uh everything's fine
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here there we never even lost power I
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noticed that your you're sort of
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grandstanding a little bit uh by talking
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about how your your kids were playing
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through all sorts of video games and
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like grandstanding well yeah we've got
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power that kind of thing showboating is
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that a better word I don't think either
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one of those are proprio k and no I did
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a lot some trees down in the
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neighborhood but nothing bad happened to
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my house and we didn't lose power good
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was that the topic of the building to
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analyze you talked about New York
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whether things did you not listen I did
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not listen I intentionally did not some
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Hall uh I will go on record and say I'm
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prepared to be surprised but I think we
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covered every possible topic you could
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possibly cover if it has to do with
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anything that's happened in the last
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couple weeks well that's why I didn't
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listen because you know I assumed there
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was going to be
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lots of overlap and it's much easier for
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me to talk about them it you know
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without feeling self-conscious if I
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hadn't actually heard what other people
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said so hmm well Marcos and my entire
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goal of the show was to cover every
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topic that you could possibly bring up I
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think we did it high five all right well
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but I didn't hear it I know that's all
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right now this is all new to me and you
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have to you know do the little men and
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black Mindwipe things so that you can
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now come to these topics again fresh cuz
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you gotta do both shows yeah and I did
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the frequency new show this morning so I
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this will be my third current events
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show today that's right well like each
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time you feel like you're getting closer
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to the truth of the matter right now
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that no absolute I feel like if there's
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any doubt about getting to the heart of
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the matter by the end of this show will
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have definitely done it here yeah let me
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just get my I didn't think you would
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actually finish so soon and since I
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wasn't listening I didn't know when
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you're gonna end let me just get mine
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I'd hate to keep you waiting I've
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learned my lesson you've not learned
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your lesson I have learned it you
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learned nothing I learned something but
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not much does it ever occurred to you
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Dan you like that movie I don't see that
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a long time well it's a very good
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Halloween movie matter to you all your
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point the owners place their complete
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confidence and trust in me that I've
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signed a letter of agreement a contract
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you're so obsessed with that one little
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passage that one scene it now like when
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I watch it again it'll be it'll be a
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letdown ya know he does that's not how
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Dan does it he must want some dude trust
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me he does it better all right let's see
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what we got here we all said that
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already gotta get my chat windows
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arranged so I can see all the people all
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other people who kept mentioning me
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during the chat and I was trying to
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ignore them know he resized my window
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from the top see see what happens did
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you find a stranger in the alps like i
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did that thing where you try to move the
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though and you accidentally grabbed it
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accidentally grabbed the top edge of it
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yeah and cited now my windows the wrong
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side ah there's no one do for window
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resizing I just burned the computer to
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the ground now start all over
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alright I have a lot of notes you're on
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fire today very disorganized I like this
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this new siracusa same old all right
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follow up let's dive in dive in all
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right on the last show we discussed the
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Microsoft Surface a bit and has it
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relates to the ipad mini both of which
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came out around the same time or
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announced 11 ship timon was announced
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and at one point we're discussing
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storage sizes and how the mini comes in
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16 but the smallest surface is 32 and
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I'd mentioned that someone said
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something about the OS on the surface
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taking up like 12 gigabytes so that 32
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gig model really you only got 20 left
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after everything's in there so Karsten
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sills and a couple of that people wrote
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in with more concrete numbers on how
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much room is taken up this is pulled
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from the anon tech review of Windows RT
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and the surface and all that stuff link
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is in the show notes and on says that
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between 6.5 and 7.5 gigabytes are taken
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up with the OS and then another 750 to
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850 megabytes for office which comes
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with the thing so it's not 12 total
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taken up I said it he had about 25 gigs
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left on a 32 gig surface not much
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alright no no that's actually wrongly
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said it said 25 gigs have started to
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start with so after Windows and Office
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well it's 17 gigs left for programs and
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documents ah sorry the general idea that
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the OS and office take up a lot of room
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on the shipping service is true and
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that's probably why like on a 16 if you
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had seven or eight dedicated to that
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then it's down to like 10 you know
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anyway the general idea that the surface
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software takes up more room than does
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the ipad is still valid but the numbers
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from last week were incorrect and
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according to non tech these are the
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numbers he actually saw on his devices
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something else from last week discussing
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and now we're I guess we're talking
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about new hardware or maybe in the past
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about the macbook pro screens where
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they're fusing the glass to the display
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for the retina right models
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as opposed to having an LCD panel and
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then like a small air gap and then just
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like a piece of glass so that I was
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saying if you you know dropped your keys
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on your screen or scratched it or
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something you haven't actually scratched
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the screen with the old way you could
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just replace the glass on the front and
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the LCD panel itself is protected by
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this sacrificial glass and they're not
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fused together apparently even on those
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old models where it had the piece of
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glass and then the screen if you were to
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do that like scratch it up or and get a
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thing replaced they always replaced it
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as a single module anyway like they
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replaced the screen and the glass at the
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same time that's that's from stephen
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hackett on twitter and then Thomas brand
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on Twitter explained it because I asked
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why why would they why wouldn't they
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just replace the glass he said it's
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because the glass is glued to the lid
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and the two can't be removed without
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heat and so they don't do that repair in
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the Apple stores you know in the back
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room with like a heat gun or whatever
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it's just like they just sorry just give
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them a whole new thing so that's why
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they replace it as you mentioned I don't
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know I mean I guess I don't want them
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removing it or maybe the type of thing
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where if you use a heat gun to like
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loosen up the glue and you pull it out
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like it's never the same again and it'll
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never get glued back right so they just
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replace it as a unit and finally on the
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topic also from Twitter Tanner Silva
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said that he got his screen replaced on
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his 15-inch retina MacBook Pro and the
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total cost was eight hundred and
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forty-six dollars hmm so not cheap be
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careful with those screens on the topic
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of the imac the new iMac which we
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discussed last time we were talking
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about why is that chin still there that
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why doesn't just look like you know the
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monitor the chinky smaller and
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de-emphasize but is still there it's got
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the apple logo on the front of it which
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seems weird for Apple who's on their iOS
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devices any not all about shoving the
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apple logo in your face but here on the
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imac berries do it and what was your
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speculation as to why laughing seemed
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like just to differentiate it from being
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a monitor and just to make it more clear
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that it's a computer right and the chin
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has been de-emphasized a couple theories
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about why the tuna there some people
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said this stuff in the chin i said
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they're like there's nothing in the chin
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there is stuff in the chin you know like
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the ram and the speakers and stuff like
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that but I mean that stuff could all fit
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behind monitor like maybe they couldn't
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have a five millimeter edge on the
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bottom if that was the case but it's not
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like it's not like there's not room
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giant monitor for all the pieces of the
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imac but a couple of other theories from
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this one from jack / on twitter and a
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couple other people had similar feedback
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is that there's stuff behind the apple
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logo on the front of the thing he says
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that the bluetooth antenna is there we
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just got to have somewhere working radio
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signal out and so if it's trapped inside
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this metal case hmm if you can't get
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through the screen you know cuz the
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screen will be blocking the signal so we
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can't get back out the back because
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that's metal you need some sort of radio
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transparent region on the case for the
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signals come out and I think someone
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else said that they thought the Wi-Fi
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stuff was in there so using it as a
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window for a wireless stuff I think
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that's happened before on iOS devices it
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was in the apple logo on one of the
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iphones used for like or maybe was the
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ipad i did they put wireless stuff in
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behind the apple logo I didn't I didn't
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I don't recall that but I bet you're
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right and we well I yeah I don't
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remember I know they had like that the
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3g model always has the plastic stripe
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on the ipad and that's like oh you know
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the non 3g one doesn't have that then
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the question okay on the non 3g one
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where you don't have the big plastic
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stripe on the top where does the Wi-Fi
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come out of in the answer to that i
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think was at some point in the past if
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it's not currently true the plastic
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apple logo so there you go so maybe
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that's one of the reasons they keep that
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stuff in there it's just kind of like
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well we got a place for the stuff again
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00:10:05
◼
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no reason they couldn't just get rid of
[TS]
00:10:07
◼
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the chin and make a little stripe of
[TS]
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◼
►
plastic on the bottom edge that you
[TS]
00:10:10
◼
►
wouldn't see that would take care of
[TS]
00:10:12
◼
►
that for them uh one more from Michael
[TS]
00:10:17
◼
►
stark we were talking about the thing
[TS]
00:10:20
◼
►
where the iPad Mini is supposed to
[TS]
00:10:21
◼
►
ignore your thumb when you're just
[TS]
00:10:23
◼
►
holding it and supposed to know like is
[TS]
00:10:25
◼
►
he trying to use his thumb to use the
[TS]
00:10:27
◼
►
device or just holding it there to
[TS]
00:10:28
◼
►
happen to go over the edge because the
[TS]
00:10:29
◼
►
border on the left and right side is
[TS]
00:10:32
◼
►
there a term for that that whole process
[TS]
00:10:33
◼
►
what the process of ignoring it yeah the
[TS]
00:10:36
◼
►
the is there like a term for that
[TS]
00:10:38
◼
►
phenomenon of you have your thumb on the
[TS]
00:10:42
◼
►
device and we are going to ignore it
[TS]
00:10:44
◼
►
well there's a bunch of events in Cocoa
[TS]
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◼
►
this is not from this piece of feedback
[TS]
00:10:50
◼
►
from other stuff that didn't have time
[TS]
00:10:52
◼
►
to pull into the notes with attribution
[TS]
00:10:54
◼
►
that there's a the event system for you
[TS]
00:10:57
◼
►
I kid has like a bunch of callback
[TS]
00:11:00
◼
►
events for like you know
[TS]
00:11:01
◼
►
they are not thumb but I touches our
[TS]
00:11:03
◼
►
stationary or touches is resting i'm
[TS]
00:11:05
◼
►
getting these names wrong but there's a
[TS]
00:11:06
◼
►
bunch of events that are supposed to
[TS]
00:11:09
◼
►
signal that something is happening in a
[TS]
00:11:12
◼
►
way that doesn't necessarily indicate
[TS]
00:11:14
◼
►
input i don't remember the exact names
[TS]
00:11:17
◼
►
but all of them are they're not names
[TS]
00:11:19
◼
►
like thumb totally didn't mean it
[TS]
00:11:21
◼
►
there's no event like they're not
[TS]
00:11:24
◼
►
they're not ascribing a motivation to
[TS]
00:11:26
◼
►
the touch they're merely saying you know
[TS]
00:11:28
◼
►
this touch is stationary or this touch
[TS]
00:11:30
◼
►
has become stationary then you can
[TS]
00:11:32
◼
►
decide what policy you want to do based
[TS]
00:11:33
◼
►
on that I'm sure that's you know part of
[TS]
00:11:35
◼
►
the mechanism they're using but it's
[TS]
00:11:37
◼
►
it's part of the public event system but
[TS]
00:11:38
◼
►
I don't know if there's some larger name
[TS]
00:11:40
◼
►
for unintentional input but well you
[TS]
00:11:43
◼
►
brought up the thing on the laptop
[TS]
00:11:46
◼
►
trackpad so ignore accidental trackpad
[TS]
00:11:49
◼
►
input yeah that used to have a checkbox
[TS]
00:11:51
◼
►
like on and off and you know you'd
[TS]
00:11:53
◼
►
always want that to be off because you
[TS]
00:11:54
◼
►
put it on it would decide they were just
[TS]
00:11:56
◼
►
start ignoring you and say oh looks like
[TS]
00:11:58
◼
►
you're probably just typing on the
[TS]
00:11:59
◼
►
keyboard and your hand brushed up
[TS]
00:12:00
◼
►
against the trackpad I'm going to ignore
[TS]
00:12:01
◼
►
that you and in reality what you've done
[TS]
00:12:04
◼
►
is changed from typing to quickly move
[TS]
00:12:05
◼
►
something move the cursor with your
[TS]
00:12:07
◼
►
thumb and then would ignore it and it
[TS]
00:12:08
◼
►
was incredibly frustrating uh so Michael
[TS]
00:12:11
◼
►
Stark tweeted to say that Apple has
[TS]
00:12:14
◼
►
removed the GUI for that setting I
[TS]
00:12:16
◼
►
remember you were looking forward in the
[TS]
00:12:17
◼
►
show yeah you find it nope so there's a
[TS]
00:12:20
◼
►
tech note that i linked in the a lot of
[TS]
00:12:22
◼
►
techno did say i don't knowledgebase
[TS]
00:12:24
◼
►
article from apple's website that i
[TS]
00:12:27
◼
►
linked in the show notes and it says are
[TS]
00:12:29
◼
►
you trying to locate the ignore
[TS]
00:12:31
◼
►
accidental trackpad input trackpad
[TS]
00:12:33
◼
►
option yes we were trying to look at if
[TS]
00:12:35
◼
►
you're trying to locate it on your
[TS]
00:12:37
◼
►
macbook macbook pro or macbook air
[TS]
00:12:38
◼
►
computer with a multi-touch trackpad
[TS]
00:12:40
◼
►
that preference is no longer there and
[TS]
00:12:44
◼
►
that functionality to ignore excel
[TS]
00:12:46
◼
►
inputs is enabled automatically by
[TS]
00:12:48
◼
►
default for these devices i think the
[TS]
00:12:50
◼
►
reason that it no longer bothers us is
[TS]
00:12:52
◼
►
because the old track pads that had that
[TS]
00:12:55
◼
►
option were not multi-touch i don't know
[TS]
00:12:57
◼
►
how many touch they sense maybe they
[TS]
00:12:58
◼
►
only sent two or whatever but they
[TS]
00:12:59
◼
►
weren't like the current glass trackpad
[TS]
00:13:01
◼
►
switch to probably do five points 10
[TS]
00:13:03
◼
►
points i don't even know how many points
[TS]
00:13:04
◼
►
that multi-touch they do but there was
[TS]
00:13:05
◼
►
like a dividing line between the the
[TS]
00:13:07
◼
►
quote-unquote non multi-touch trackpad
[TS]
00:13:09
◼
►
even though i think they can handle more
[TS]
00:13:11
◼
►
than one touch and then the multi-touch
[TS]
00:13:12
◼
►
ones and it's much easier to figure out
[TS]
00:13:15
◼
►
what's intentional from unintentional if
[TS]
00:13:17
◼
►
you can sense all the sort of things
[TS]
00:13:19
◼
►
that are touching where you know versus
[TS]
00:13:21
◼
►
a trackpad that can only sense one or
[TS]
00:13:23
◼
►
two points of touching and it has to
[TS]
00:13:24
◼
►
decide which one of those is the real
[TS]
00:13:25
◼
►
one so if you accidentally brushed up
[TS]
00:13:28
◼
►
against a non multi-touch trackpad with
[TS]
00:13:29
◼
►
like five fingers the hardware is only
[TS]
00:13:32
◼
►
going to send like two of those to the
[TS]
00:13:33
◼
►
device and it's got to figure out what's
[TS]
00:13:35
◼
►
going on so it seems that once they went
[TS]
00:13:37
◼
►
to multi-touch now they have enough
[TS]
00:13:38
◼
►
information from all the touches and a
[TS]
00:13:41
◼
►
much more sensitive touch interface to
[TS]
00:13:43
◼
►
be able to turn that policy on by
[TS]
00:13:45
◼
►
default so they can better determine
[TS]
00:13:46
◼
►
what's accidental so that I guess
[TS]
00:13:48
◼
►
probably bodes well for the the iPad
[TS]
00:13:50
◼
►
minis implementation of this if we hit
[TS]
00:13:53
◼
►
both of us didn't even notice that this
[TS]
00:13:54
◼
►
is now on by default on on laptop track
[TS]
00:13:56
◼
►
pads and the multi-touch error right did
[TS]
00:14:01
◼
►
you get before we get off that topic did
[TS]
00:14:03
◼
►
you get your ipad mini yet I know you
[TS]
00:14:04
◼
►
just said it was like on its way through
[TS]
00:14:06
◼
►
the distribution center blah blah blah
[TS]
00:14:08
◼
►
you've been tracking an effect right it
[TS]
00:14:09
◼
►
is on fedex vehicle for delivery
[TS]
00:14:11
◼
►
delivering to our you corporate
[TS]
00:14:13
◼
►
headquarters UPS store so it will be
[TS]
00:14:16
◼
►
here at some point today it's not been
[TS]
00:14:18
◼
►
delivered yet they say by 3pm i believe
[TS]
00:14:20
◼
►
them so i will have it sometime later
[TS]
00:14:23
◼
►
today I'm sure all right it's not going
[TS]
00:14:27
◼
►
to arrive while record it will not test
[TS]
00:14:29
◼
►
no even if it is delivered that's not
[TS]
00:14:31
◼
►
here so no chance no chance all right
[TS]
00:14:36
◼
►
first sponsor good idea I mean why not
[TS]
00:14:41
◼
►
right Shopify calm hosted e-commerce
[TS]
00:14:45
◼
►
solution allows you to set up and run
[TS]
00:14:46
◼
►
your own online store in minutes they
[TS]
00:14:49
◼
►
say minutes i say moments you just pick
[TS]
00:14:51
◼
►
a template you add your products you
[TS]
00:14:53
◼
►
pick your payment processor could be
[TS]
00:14:54
◼
►
paypal stripe authorize.net whatever and
[TS]
00:14:57
◼
►
you just ship your stuff just a few
[TS]
00:15:00
◼
►
clicks it's easy to sell online there's
[TS]
00:15:02
◼
►
no software to download nothing to host
[TS]
00:15:04
◼
►
nothing to upgrade nothing to maintain
[TS]
00:15:05
◼
►
they do everything you can pick from
[TS]
00:15:07
◼
►
over a hundred professionally designed
[TS]
00:15:09
◼
►
ecommerce templates or you just create
[TS]
00:15:11
◼
►
your own make it look exactly the way
[TS]
00:15:13
◼
►
you want make it look exactly like your
[TS]
00:15:14
◼
►
own website you get full control over
[TS]
00:15:17
◼
►
the HTML and CSS there's no bandwidth
[TS]
00:15:19
◼
►
limits you have to worry about scaling
[TS]
00:15:22
◼
►
they handle redundancy failover
[TS]
00:15:25
◼
►
everything
[TS]
00:15:26
◼
►
and they're pci level one pci DSS
[TS]
00:15:29
◼
►
compliant totally secure all you need is
[TS]
00:15:31
◼
►
something to sell special URL Shopify
[TS]
00:15:36
◼
►
calm / 5 x 5 first of all just go there
[TS]
00:15:39
◼
►
and check out what they have to offer
[TS]
00:15:40
◼
►
look at their examples page look at what
[TS]
00:15:41
◼
►
you can build a lot of the sites that
[TS]
00:15:43
◼
►
you're already using when you go and you
[TS]
00:15:45
◼
►
buy stuff there Shopify sites and you
[TS]
00:15:47
◼
►
have no idea because they look exactly
[TS]
00:15:49
◼
►
like the site that you were you're at
[TS]
00:15:51
◼
►
good example this is the book apart site
[TS]
00:15:53
◼
►
that's all Shopify look how they've
[TS]
00:15:55
◼
►
handled it look how they've stopped it
[TS]
00:15:56
◼
►
Shopify com such five by five you get
[TS]
00:15:59
◼
►
three months free instead of just our
[TS]
00:16:01
◼
►
usual 30 days free go check them out
[TS]
00:16:03
◼
►
support the show thanks very much for to
[TS]
00:16:04
◼
►
them for making show possible all right
[TS]
00:16:09
◼
►
ready yeah before we get off the topic
[TS]
00:16:12
◼
►
of the apple logo chin thing yes on
[TS]
00:16:15
◼
►
Twitter like Michael ago Mike the goat
[TS]
00:16:17
◼
►
he says they do it in a goat voice yeah
[TS]
00:16:21
◼
►
I can't duck into a goat okay yeah this
[TS]
00:16:24
◼
►
is this piece of feedback was also sent
[TS]
00:16:26
◼
►
by a lot of people but he's good to
[TS]
00:16:27
◼
►
remind us of that it's not just
[TS]
00:16:28
◼
►
bluetooth and Wi-Fi also the IR think
[TS]
00:16:30
◼
►
maybe we forget that these things have
[TS]
00:16:32
◼
►
you know I are now that they don't come
[TS]
00:16:34
◼
►
with your remote anymore I don't think I
[TS]
00:16:35
◼
►
think I stopped shipping that remote but
[TS]
00:16:37
◼
►
at one point they shipped a little
[TS]
00:16:38
◼
►
cruddy plastic remote that's stuck to
[TS]
00:16:40
◼
►
the side of the imac with a magnet
[TS]
00:16:42
◼
►
remember that yeah there's a that was
[TS]
00:16:43
◼
►
funny little little white plastic and it
[TS]
00:16:46
◼
►
had the little I'm an infrared remote
[TS]
00:16:48
◼
►
band across the top of it yeah chiku
[TS]
00:16:52
◼
►
things but anyway the n ir receiver
[TS]
00:16:54
◼
►
obviously has to be its line of sight so
[TS]
00:16:56
◼
►
you can't just put the little strip on
[TS]
00:16:59
◼
►
the back but i still have full
[TS]
00:17:00
◼
►
confidence that Apple could find a place
[TS]
00:17:02
◼
►
to hide the IR receiver like behind the
[TS]
00:17:04
◼
►
black border of this screen or something
[TS]
00:17:07
◼
►
you know like it doesn't I don't think
[TS]
00:17:09
◼
►
it has to necessarily be Annapolis it's
[TS]
00:17:10
◼
►
not like they have to keep the apple
[TS]
00:17:11
◼
►
logo just for the IR think there's
[TS]
00:17:12
◼
►
plenty of other front-facing things for
[TS]
00:17:14
◼
►
example they have a front facing camera
[TS]
00:17:15
◼
►
on these things and they're pretty darn
[TS]
00:17:17
◼
►
good at hiding that one doesn't that you
[TS]
00:17:20
◼
►
know our receivers don't have to be the
[TS]
00:17:21
◼
►
size of the apple logo they can be those
[TS]
00:17:23
◼
►
little tiny things all right I'm sure
[TS]
00:17:28
◼
►
you talked about this on build and
[TS]
00:17:30
◼
►
analyze this week someone in the chat
[TS]
00:17:32
◼
►
room just asked about it but this week
[TS]
00:17:34
◼
►
Disney purchase Lucasfilm and i'm sure
[TS]
00:17:37
◼
►
people want to hear what I have to say
[TS]
00:17:38
◼
►
about that
[TS]
00:17:39
◼
►
as it happens I beat marco to the punch
[TS]
00:17:42
◼
►
on this and i did an hour-long episode
[TS]
00:17:44
◼
►
of being comparable it was episode 114
[TS]
00:17:47
◼
►
titled when you wish upon a star wars i
[TS]
00:17:50
◼
►
will put that into the show notes it's
[TS]
00:17:52
◼
►
already there a little oh no oh no yes
[TS]
00:17:56
◼
►
yeah so people who want to hear what I
[TS]
00:17:59
◼
►
have to say about the Star Wars stuff
[TS]
00:18:00
◼
►
that episode is already sitting in
[TS]
00:18:02
◼
►
itunes for you just go over to your
[TS]
00:18:04
◼
►
incomparable fee but you all subscribe
[TS]
00:18:06
◼
►
to write and pull up when you wish upon
[TS]
00:18:08
◼
►
a star wars and you can hear all about
[TS]
00:18:09
◼
►
it ah and now I don't have to talk about
[TS]
00:18:12
◼
►
it in the show because I have lots of
[TS]
00:18:13
◼
►
other things to discuss unless there's
[TS]
00:18:14
◼
►
any specific thing that you need to know
[TS]
00:18:16
◼
►
I don't know if you listen to that
[TS]
00:18:17
◼
►
something horrible but is there anything
[TS]
00:18:18
◼
►
specific that you're dying to know about
[TS]
00:18:21
◼
►
my take on the Lucas stuff there are
[TS]
00:18:24
◼
►
lots of things and I recommend this show
[TS]
00:18:27
◼
►
I recommend this episode of the show I'm
[TS]
00:18:30
◼
►
not done listening to it yet but
[TS]
00:18:31
◼
►
intentionally because I wanted to be
[TS]
00:18:33
◼
►
somewhat surprised for for you on your
[TS]
00:18:37
◼
►
responses and things on this show the
[TS]
00:18:39
◼
►
main question I think that folks have
[TS]
00:18:41
◼
►
you we have talked which which episode
[TS]
00:18:43
◼
►
did we discuss George Lucas and what he
[TS]
00:18:48
◼
►
has done to Star Wars let me see if do
[TS]
00:18:52
◼
►
you remember the episode number no I
[TS]
00:18:54
◼
►
never remember the episode numbers in
[TS]
00:18:56
◼
►
fact I was trying to find episode
[TS]
00:18:57
◼
►
numbers for like when we talked about
[TS]
00:18:58
◼
►
Windows 8 and I had difficulty even
[TS]
00:18:59
◼
►
finding madam I'm doing a bad job for
[TS]
00:19:01
◼
►
Star Wars is not a blog post that sounds
[TS]
00:19:06
◼
►
likely the People vs George Lucas yeah
[TS]
00:19:09
◼
►
that was probably is that the one okay
[TS]
00:19:11
◼
►
so this is episode number 45 of this
[TS]
00:19:13
◼
►
show let's see then there was another
[TS]
00:19:16
◼
►
one yeah that's it so I'll put that and
[TS]
00:19:20
◼
►
I'm pretty sure that's it i'll put that
[TS]
00:19:21
◼
►
in the show notes is first my first
[TS]
00:19:23
◼
►
question for you is is this a good thing
[TS]
00:19:26
◼
►
or a bad thing not because there's a
[TS]
00:19:29
◼
►
that's a loaded question first of all
[TS]
00:19:31
◼
►
you have George Lucas stepping back
[TS]
00:19:33
◼
►
stepping away and other people coming in
[TS]
00:19:36
◼
►
to do things with Star Wars first of all
[TS]
00:19:39
◼
►
second of all the announcement that
[TS]
00:19:41
◼
►
there will be new Star Wars movies
[TS]
00:19:44
◼
►
coming out every three or four days
[TS]
00:19:46
◼
►
there'll be a new Star Wars movie made
[TS]
00:19:48
◼
►
is that a good thing or a bad thing what
[TS]
00:19:51
◼
►
are your thoughts on this
[TS]
00:19:52
◼
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as I said I mean comparable I think this
[TS]
00:19:56
◼
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is a good thing completely a good thing
[TS]
00:19:59
◼
►
uh I always assumed that we'd have to
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
wait for George Lucas to die right
[TS]
00:20:04
◼
►
before well we all hoped that wouldn't
[TS]
00:20:07
◼
►
come to that but we answer that was that
[TS]
00:20:10
◼
►
was the assumption that he would have to
[TS]
00:20:11
◼
►
die before anyone would be able to start
[TS]
00:20:13
◼
►
fixing things because he was such a
[TS]
00:20:15
◼
►
control freak about it when you know
[TS]
00:20:17
◼
►
yadon but he was able he was able to
[TS]
00:20:19
◼
►
give it up and that's good and it's good
[TS]
00:20:21
◼
►
because it frees star wars from is his
[TS]
00:20:26
◼
►
control he had such strict control over
[TS]
00:20:28
◼
►
the the prequels and they were so
[TS]
00:20:29
◼
►
terrible being free of that control is
[TS]
00:20:32
◼
►
great because it gives other people more
[TS]
00:20:34
◼
►
talented people younger people hungry
[TS]
00:20:35
◼
►
people a crack at the franchise so I
[TS]
00:20:38
◼
►
think I think it's a good thing it gives
[TS]
00:20:42
◼
►
us a chance to possibly have the
[TS]
00:20:43
◼
►
unadulterated versions of the movies be
[TS]
00:20:48
◼
►
released all sorts of things that you
[TS]
00:20:49
◼
►
know all the dissatisfaction that star
[TS]
00:20:52
◼
►
wars fans have had with the franchise
[TS]
00:20:53
◼
►
all that potentially is cured by
[TS]
00:20:58
◼
►
bringing the franchise elsewhere so I
[TS]
00:21:01
◼
►
give I give it a thumbs up and I'm happy
[TS]
00:21:03
◼
►
and optimistic about what will happen it
[TS]
00:21:06
◼
►
could very well be that some terrible
[TS]
00:21:08
◼
►
things come out of that this terrible
[TS]
00:21:09
◼
►
television program is more terrible
[TS]
00:21:11
◼
►
movies but the fact that it's out of
[TS]
00:21:13
◼
►
control that one person means that lie
[TS]
00:21:15
◼
►
so it so you make some bad ones give
[TS]
00:21:17
◼
►
someone else a chance they can make some
[TS]
00:21:18
◼
►
good ones there's lots of things you can
[TS]
00:21:20
◼
►
do with the star wars franchise and now
[TS]
00:21:22
◼
►
that things like the movies which are
[TS]
00:21:24
◼
►
like okay well you can make you know
[TS]
00:21:26
◼
►
expanded universe novels and video games
[TS]
00:21:27
◼
►
and stuff like that but George Lucas is
[TS]
00:21:29
◼
►
the guy who says okay for the movies
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
►
like those were you know now now it's
[TS]
00:21:32
◼
►
not gated by one guy's whims like George
[TS]
00:21:34
◼
►
Lucas didn't feel like doing Star Wars
[TS]
00:21:36
◼
►
movie for a decade or two there was no
[TS]
00:21:37
◼
►
Star Wars movies for decades that snot
[TS]
00:21:39
◼
►
gonna happen anymore so I am optimistic
[TS]
00:21:41
◼
►
and I think it's a good thing I'm very
[TS]
00:21:44
◼
►
optimistic I think anything that gets
[TS]
00:21:46
◼
►
this away from George Lucas's personal
[TS]
00:21:48
◼
►
thoughts and opinions and feelings is it
[TS]
00:21:53
◼
►
is a good thing I think the further away
[TS]
00:21:56
◼
►
this is from George Lucas the better I'm
[TS]
00:21:58
◼
►
grateful that he had the idea for Star
[TS]
00:21:59
◼
►
Wars and then he was able to execute the
[TS]
00:22:04
◼
►
star wars empire star
[TS]
00:22:05
◼
►
back in to some degree that third one so
[TS]
00:22:10
◼
►
well and good let's get it away from him
[TS]
00:22:15
◼
►
and let's anything that I I can't
[TS]
00:22:17
◼
►
believe that they're going to do
[TS]
00:22:18
◼
►
anything that'll be worse than I think
[TS]
00:22:21
◼
►
what I think you can make things worse
[TS]
00:22:22
◼
►
as I said at the end of the maybe I'm
[TS]
00:22:25
◼
►
just more optimistic as I said at the
[TS]
00:22:26
◼
►
end of the uncomfortable I I can
[TS]
00:22:28
◼
►
definitely see movies being worse than
[TS]
00:22:30
◼
►
the prequels but nothing that they do
[TS]
00:22:31
◼
►
with the star wars franchise will feel
[TS]
00:22:33
◼
►
worse than the prequels felt because you
[TS]
00:22:36
◼
►
know it's not you know the and absolute
[TS]
00:22:37
◼
►
quality yeah you can make worst movies
[TS]
00:22:39
◼
►
and that no lots of ways but nothing
[TS]
00:22:41
◼
►
will feel that bad because we waited so
[TS]
00:22:42
◼
►
long and just it was inconceivable these
[TS]
00:22:46
◼
►
movies could be anything other than
[TS]
00:22:47
◼
►
awesome and they were terrible and it
[TS]
00:22:48
◼
►
was just the biggest letdown ever now
[TS]
00:22:50
◼
►
we're all we all bear those emotional
[TS]
00:22:54
◼
►
scars and have severed our relationship
[TS]
00:22:57
◼
►
with the franchise in some fashion in
[TS]
00:22:59
◼
►
order to move on with their lives and
[TS]
00:23:00
◼
►
now now we're free to enjoy the fruits
[TS]
00:23:02
◼
►
of other people's Labor's in this
[TS]
00:23:03
◼
►
universe without the expectations and
[TS]
00:23:06
◼
►
anticipation that accompanied the
[TS]
00:23:08
◼
►
prequels mm-hmm all right uh oh yeah it
[TS]
00:23:14
◼
►
wasn't the incomparable you won't hear
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
more about that I would have probably
[TS]
00:23:19
◼
►
didn't hit a dollar show to it if we had
[TS]
00:23:20
◼
►
not had that in copper but we did but so
[TS]
00:23:23
◼
►
do you feel people should just go and
[TS]
00:23:25
◼
►
listen that if they if they want in that
[TS]
00:23:26
◼
►
get leave Z room to stretch out this
[TS]
00:23:28
◼
►
episode that's right because I grab lots
[TS]
00:23:30
◼
►
of other things to discuss here so this
[TS]
00:23:33
◼
►
this next bit is follow-up but kind of
[TS]
00:23:36
◼
►
also the half topic for this show and
[TS]
00:23:39
◼
►
that is more about apples fusion drive
[TS]
00:23:43
◼
►
stuff we talked about last week mostly
[TS]
00:23:46
◼
►
just speculation because all we had to
[TS]
00:23:48
◼
►
go on was vague sort of slides in a
[TS]
00:23:50
◼
►
presentation and a couple of fact I
[TS]
00:23:52
◼
►
Tamannaah post uh but no nitty-gritty
[TS]
00:23:54
◼
►
technical details about the thing and
[TS]
00:23:57
◼
►
last week my guesses were that this was
[TS]
00:24:01
◼
►
implemented with course storage ah and I
[TS]
00:24:06
◼
►
mentioned on the show like Korra storage
[TS]
00:24:08
◼
►
has been around since the lion and you
[TS]
00:24:10
◼
►
could as of even lion just make two
[TS]
00:24:12
◼
►
disks and join them together into a
[TS]
00:24:14
◼
►
single volume and I mentioned I was
[TS]
00:24:15
◼
►
trying to do a demo like
[TS]
00:24:16
◼
►
for my lion review but it wasn't quite
[TS]
00:24:18
◼
►
working i was using disk images and it
[TS]
00:24:20
◼
►
was really buggy and stuff like that but
[TS]
00:24:21
◼
►
I that capability has been there in the
[TS]
00:24:23
◼
►
man page for you know disk your till
[TS]
00:24:25
◼
►
since 10-7 as I said you can do that
[TS]
00:24:28
◼
►
today you know just far as I presumably
[TS]
00:24:29
◼
►
it's less buggy now but I didn't
[TS]
00:24:32
◼
►
understand how that would how to square
[TS]
00:24:34
◼
►
that all with course start with uh with
[TS]
00:24:36
◼
►
fusion drive because fusion drive was
[TS]
00:24:39
◼
►
always described in terms of like oh and
[TS]
00:24:41
◼
►
these applications we use them alot will
[TS]
00:24:42
◼
►
end up on the SSD but this stuff you
[TS]
00:24:44
◼
►
know they talk about applications and
[TS]
00:24:45
◼
►
files but course storage works at the
[TS]
00:24:47
◼
►
block level it's not at the file level
[TS]
00:24:49
◼
►
so I didn't understand in Mike well
[TS]
00:24:50
◼
►
course towards just an umbrella term
[TS]
00:24:52
◼
►
they could have just implemented
[TS]
00:24:53
◼
►
something new that shuttles files back
[TS]
00:24:56
◼
►
and forth and works at the file level
[TS]
00:24:58
◼
►
and even though it's called core storage
[TS]
00:24:59
◼
►
it's not the same as the you know the
[TS]
00:25:01
◼
►
block based logical volume manager thing
[TS]
00:25:04
◼
►
that they use her foul ball to you know
[TS]
00:25:05
◼
►
we just didn't know because it wasn't
[TS]
00:25:06
◼
►
enough technical details released well
[TS]
00:25:09
◼
►
since last week someone named Patrick
[TS]
00:25:10
◼
►
Stein or jolly jinx on Twitter put up a
[TS]
00:25:14
◼
►
series of posts on his tumblr where he
[TS]
00:25:16
◼
►
did just want to describe last week
[TS]
00:25:17
◼
►
which is all right let me just take
[TS]
00:25:19
◼
►
course storage disk utility to disks
[TS]
00:25:21
◼
►
together into a single volume only what
[TS]
00:25:23
◼
►
he did was he took out my two discs
[TS]
00:25:25
◼
►
selling a drawing one is going to be an
[TS]
00:25:26
◼
►
SSD and one is it gonna be spinning disk
[TS]
00:25:28
◼
►
so I'm making my own fusion drive now
[TS]
00:25:30
◼
►
the underlying assumption for all these
[TS]
00:25:32
◼
►
posts is that what he's doing here with
[TS]
00:25:35
◼
►
disk utility core storage is what fusion
[TS]
00:25:37
◼
►
drive is uh and unless he has some
[TS]
00:25:41
◼
►
information that I don't or rather I
[TS]
00:25:44
◼
►
didn't really before during this week
[TS]
00:25:46
◼
►
he's just assuming they're like okay
[TS]
00:25:49
◼
►
well course storage is a fusion drives
[TS]
00:25:50
◼
►
gotta be done with course storage and
[TS]
00:25:52
◼
►
many that was my assumption as well and
[TS]
00:25:53
◼
►
basically more or less got that
[TS]
00:25:54
◼
►
confirmed from Apple but that doesn't
[TS]
00:25:56
◼
►
mean anything because like I said core
[TS]
00:25:58
◼
►
storage could be an umbrella term and so
[TS]
00:25:59
◼
►
and so forth and the reason I was so
[TS]
00:26:03
◼
►
skeptical of this being what Fusion
[TS]
00:26:06
◼
►
Drive is is because like I said
[TS]
00:26:07
◼
►
everything they described about fusion
[TS]
00:26:09
◼
►
drive was like oh it moves your files
[TS]
00:26:10
◼
►
for one place the other all your
[TS]
00:26:12
◼
►
applications or someplace else it never
[TS]
00:26:14
◼
►
talked about like you know blocked base
[TS]
00:26:16
◼
►
wear something you know just the disks
[TS]
00:26:18
◼
►
blocks that you read or on half on one
[TS]
00:26:19
◼
►
thing and half on the other like
[TS]
00:26:20
◼
►
block-based doesn't mean file system
[TS]
00:26:23
◼
►
blocks like 4k blocks and doesn't mean
[TS]
00:26:24
◼
►
disk blocks like you know sectors and
[TS]
00:26:26
◼
►
blocks it means the units of storage
[TS]
00:26:28
◼
►
that are managed by cora storages
[TS]
00:26:30
◼
►
logical volume manager and they have
[TS]
00:26:34
◼
►
nothing to do with file boundaries right
[TS]
00:26:36
◼
►
there just implementing it a block
[TS]
00:26:38
◼
►
storage device and the file system goes
[TS]
00:26:41
◼
►
on top of that but those the core
[TS]
00:26:43
◼
►
storage blocks it's shuffling around
[TS]
00:26:44
◼
►
have no idea what files they belong to
[TS]
00:26:46
◼
►
like you know they could span files and
[TS]
00:26:48
◼
►
stuff like that that's that they're
[TS]
00:26:50
◼
►
there just presenting a block device so
[TS]
00:26:51
◼
►
that didn't seem to square at all with
[TS]
00:26:55
◼
►
something that moves files and
[TS]
00:26:56
◼
►
applications around and it certainly
[TS]
00:26:59
◼
►
didn't square with the idea that as of
[TS]
00:27:00
◼
►
lying you could make a volume at of two
[TS]
00:27:03
◼
►
other things and put stuff on it but
[TS]
00:27:06
◼
►
Korra storage does the thing where I
[TS]
00:27:07
◼
►
move stuff from one to the other like it
[TS]
00:27:09
◼
►
reshuffle stuff based on usage in like
[TS]
00:27:10
◼
►
well surely course storage doesn't do
[TS]
00:27:13
◼
►
that like why would it be moving stuff
[TS]
00:27:14
◼
►
back and forth but the thing is as of
[TS]
00:27:17
◼
►
lime when I was playing with this it
[TS]
00:27:19
◼
►
there's a couple possibilities one is
[TS]
00:27:21
◼
►
that back then all core storage did was
[TS]
00:27:23
◼
►
you know join two physical disks
[TS]
00:27:25
◼
►
together into a single volume and put
[TS]
00:27:28
◼
►
some you know some data and one some
[TS]
00:27:30
◼
►
date on the other but it didn't like
[TS]
00:27:31
◼
►
move stuff around based on usage that's
[TS]
00:27:33
◼
►
one possibility the other possibility is
[TS]
00:27:35
◼
►
that it did move stuff based around
[TS]
00:27:36
◼
►
based on your usage and I just never
[TS]
00:27:38
◼
►
noticed because who would have think
[TS]
00:27:39
◼
►
thought to look for that because like a
[TS]
00:27:41
◼
►
logical volume manager like that wasn't
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
a selling point it wasn't in the man
[TS]
00:27:44
◼
►
page four different ill course storage
[TS]
00:27:46
◼
►
like maybe it was moving stuff and we
[TS]
00:27:48
◼
►
didn't even know right uh so in this
[TS]
00:27:52
◼
►
experiment that the Patrick did is he
[TS]
00:27:54
◼
►
did that he's got the little command
[TS]
00:27:56
◼
►
lines up here but if you do man disk you
[TS]
00:27:57
◼
►
till you can look at the core storage
[TS]
00:27:58
◼
►
section now disk utility s create you
[TS]
00:28:01
◼
►
know a logical volume group and he makes
[TS]
00:28:03
◼
►
it out of two disks an SSD in a spinning
[TS]
00:28:05
◼
►
disk and then he creates a volume on
[TS]
00:28:07
◼
►
that new you know he's now created what
[TS]
00:28:09
◼
►
looks like a single disk but has really
[TS]
00:28:11
◼
►
made up of two physicalist and he
[TS]
00:28:12
◼
►
creates a volume on and they just says
[TS]
00:28:14
◼
►
make a volume make a journaled hfs+ make
[TS]
00:28:17
◼
►
it 500 gigs and this is okay fine now
[TS]
00:28:20
◼
►
you've got a volume and underneath it
[TS]
00:28:22
◼
►
are two physical things now the next
[TS]
00:28:24
◼
►
things he did was he's trying to
[TS]
00:28:25
◼
►
determine okay is this what fusion disk
[TS]
00:28:27
◼
►
is so he's using DD and observation of
[TS]
00:28:31
◼
►
data transfer speeds to say okay I'm
[TS]
00:28:32
◼
►
going to write enough data where I know
[TS]
00:28:33
◼
►
this couldn't possibly all fit on the
[TS]
00:28:35
◼
►
SSD so he write some more you know more
[TS]
00:28:36
◼
►
than enough data and it's now it should
[TS]
00:28:38
◼
►
be spilling over into the hard drive and
[TS]
00:28:39
◼
►
he does a series of experiments with
[TS]
00:28:41
◼
►
reads and writes of files
[TS]
00:28:43
◼
►
and if he gets like you know 200
[TS]
00:28:46
◼
►
megabytes a second it reads he's like oh
[TS]
00:28:47
◼
►
that's coming from the SSD but if he
[TS]
00:28:48
◼
►
gets a lower read rate he's like oh
[TS]
00:28:50
◼
►
that's coming from the hard drive
[TS]
00:28:50
◼
►
because they really are vastly different
[TS]
00:28:52
◼
►
rates and he has tried to experimentally
[TS]
00:28:55
◼
►
prove to himself by eliminating things
[TS]
00:28:57
◼
►
like disk caching and stuff like that
[TS]
00:28:58
◼
►
but unmounting the drive to clear the
[TS]
00:29:00
◼
►
disk cache that something you know he's
[TS]
00:29:03
◼
►
determined okay these files are on the
[TS]
00:29:04
◼
►
SSD and these files are on on the
[TS]
00:29:06
◼
►
spinning disk and then he would see
[TS]
00:29:08
◼
►
after he stopped doing his activity the
[TS]
00:29:10
◼
►
disk activity would still be going on
[TS]
00:29:12
◼
►
behind the scenes because like Quora
[TS]
00:29:13
◼
►
storage and his estimation was moving
[TS]
00:29:15
◼
►
stuff and then he would do in a
[TS]
00:29:16
◼
►
subsequent tests and say oh now that's
[TS]
00:29:17
◼
►
not that I was accessing that was slow
[TS]
00:29:19
◼
►
before you know something behind the
[TS]
00:29:21
◼
►
scenes has put that onto the SSD
[TS]
00:29:23
◼
►
physical volume and now when I read from
[TS]
00:29:25
◼
►
those exact same things it's fast ah so
[TS]
00:29:28
◼
►
he's sort of experimentally determining
[TS]
00:29:30
◼
►
that plain old core storage that you
[TS]
00:29:33
◼
►
just make a logical volume out of two
[TS]
00:29:35
◼
►
physical volumes it's moving stuff
[TS]
00:29:37
◼
►
around based on your activity so that
[TS]
00:29:41
◼
►
that was an important point to saying
[TS]
00:29:43
◼
►
that this is what this is what fusion
[TS]
00:29:45
◼
►
drive is uh the next bit was like the
[TS]
00:29:48
◼
►
question of okay well you know is it
[TS]
00:29:50
◼
►
block based or file based because again
[TS]
00:29:52
◼
►
all the descriptions you know that the
[TS]
00:29:53
◼
►
marketing descriptions are like all
[TS]
00:29:55
◼
►
about files and applications but core
[TS]
00:29:57
◼
►
storage you know logical volume
[TS]
00:29:58
◼
►
management is working with you know
[TS]
00:30:00
◼
►
blocks that did don't have that aren't
[TS]
00:30:03
◼
►
the same thing they don't respect file
[TS]
00:30:04
◼
►
and they're independent of file
[TS]
00:30:05
◼
►
boundaries right because you're putting
[TS]
00:30:06
◼
►
a file system on top of this block
[TS]
00:30:08
◼
►
storage this virtual block storage
[TS]
00:30:09
◼
►
device right so then he was trying to
[TS]
00:30:12
◼
►
say okay I won't read or write entire
[TS]
00:30:14
◼
►
files I'll read and write just like the
[TS]
00:30:16
◼
►
first megabyte of a big file and he saw
[TS]
00:30:18
◼
►
the like just reading writing that first
[TS]
00:30:20
◼
►
megabyte would cause just that first
[TS]
00:30:21
◼
►
megabyte to go on to the SSD like you
[TS]
00:30:24
◼
►
know course towards remove them over
[TS]
00:30:25
◼
►
there so their support for the idea that
[TS]
00:30:27
◼
►
this arrangement of volumes and course
[TS]
00:30:29
◼
►
storage moves data and doesn't move
[TS]
00:30:31
◼
►
entire files it just moves blocks which
[TS]
00:30:33
◼
►
makes perfect sense in terms of the wake
[TS]
00:30:34
◼
►
or storage works and the final thing
[TS]
00:30:36
◼
►
they tribe was like okay can I make this
[TS]
00:30:38
◼
►
logical volume group out of to a logical
[TS]
00:30:42
◼
►
volume out of two physical volumes and
[TS]
00:30:44
◼
►
formatted as something other than H of S
[TS]
00:30:46
◼
►
Plus so he formatted a ZFS like he's got
[TS]
00:30:51
◼
►
this logic volume looks like just an
[TS]
00:30:52
◼
►
unusual eyes hard disk is really made up
[TS]
00:30:54
◼
►
of two hardest behind the scenes and he
[TS]
00:30:56
◼
►
you know dizzy pool
[TS]
00:30:57
◼
►
create blah blah and he's got ZFS on top
[TS]
00:30:59
◼
►
of it which again makes sense if it's
[TS]
00:31:02
◼
►
has nothing to do with files what it
[TS]
00:31:04
◼
►
shouldn't care what file system on top
[TS]
00:31:05
◼
►
it was just was just working with blocks
[TS]
00:31:07
◼
►
and again he did his tests and saw that
[TS]
00:31:10
◼
►
after he stopped messing with the file
[TS]
00:31:12
◼
►
system I owed activity continued he said
[TS]
00:31:15
◼
►
it always kept going for like 10 minutes
[TS]
00:31:16
◼
►
were copy stuff and he didn't know if 10
[TS]
00:31:18
◼
►
minutes was like a fixed limit I think
[TS]
00:31:19
◼
►
it's just because that's how long it
[TS]
00:31:21
◼
►
took to move the amount of data he had
[TS]
00:31:23
◼
►
fiddled with and then he did a read
[TS]
00:31:26
◼
►
after that and like all of a sudden the
[TS]
00:31:28
◼
►
data he'd been reading before is now
[TS]
00:31:29
◼
►
coming back much faster because him it's
[TS]
00:31:31
◼
►
been moved to the SSD so he's using this
[TS]
00:31:33
◼
►
as evidence that core storage is you
[TS]
00:31:38
◼
►
know works at the block level just like
[TS]
00:31:39
◼
►
full disk encryption uh and has nothing
[TS]
00:31:42
◼
►
to do with the file system its file
[TS]
00:31:43
◼
►
system diagnostic and that what he was
[TS]
00:31:47
◼
►
doing in his experiment here again he's
[TS]
00:31:49
◼
►
doing this not unlike a fancy new iMac
[TS]
00:31:51
◼
►
and not on one of the new mac man he's
[TS]
00:31:52
◼
►
just on a random mac that happens to be
[TS]
00:31:54
◼
►
running 10 8 2 i'm assuming right that
[TS]
00:31:56
◼
►
this is what core storage is and
[TS]
00:31:59
◼
►
everyone else who passed these stories
[TS]
00:32:01
◼
►
around assumed as well as I hey cor
[TS]
00:32:02
◼
►
storage on your Mac you can do coerced
[TS]
00:32:04
◼
►
or not core storage fusion drive on your
[TS]
00:32:05
◼
►
Mac you can do fusion drive on any Mac
[TS]
00:32:07
◼
►
you'll be fine you can put external
[TS]
00:32:09
◼
►
drives until you can do anything you
[TS]
00:32:10
◼
►
want the underlying assumption that this
[TS]
00:32:13
◼
►
is how fusion drive works well in late
[TS]
00:32:15
◼
►
breaking news which Mark who could not
[TS]
00:32:17
◼
►
possibly have had what do you think of
[TS]
00:32:19
◼
►
that Lee hutchinson of ours who's
[TS]
00:32:21
◼
►
written a couple of articles in fusion
[TS]
00:32:23
◼
►
drive and who has one of the new mac
[TS]
00:32:25
◼
►
minis with the fusion drive option
[TS]
00:32:27
◼
►
moments before the show began pulled out
[TS]
00:32:30
◼
►
his mac mini with Fusion Drive and ran a
[TS]
00:32:32
◼
►
couple of commands for me and got the
[TS]
00:32:35
◼
►
output of it so when he just runs disk
[TS]
00:32:37
◼
►
you to list what it shows is dev disk 0
[TS]
00:32:40
◼
►
disk 1 and just to disk 0 has a whole
[TS]
00:32:43
◼
►
bunch of different sections that's got
[TS]
00:32:44
◼
►
the g yd partitioner map efi and then
[TS]
00:32:47
◼
►
it's got apple core storage and apple
[TS]
00:32:49
◼
►
boot OS 10 disc 1 is 1 terabyte volume
[TS]
00:32:54
◼
►
it's got the g yd partition thing efi
[TS]
00:32:56
◼
►
core storage and the recovery hard drive
[TS]
00:32:59
◼
►
and dev disc 2 is the macintosh HD and
[TS]
00:33:03
◼
►
it is a 1 point 1 terabyte disk and that
[TS]
00:33:05
◼
►
one point 1 terabyte disk you can
[TS]
00:33:08
◼
►
surmise by knowing the amount of
[TS]
00:33:09
◼
►
physical storage that's installed
[TS]
00:33:11
◼
►
here there's only a one terabyte
[TS]
00:33:12
◼
►
spinning disk and a 128 gig SSD so how
[TS]
00:33:16
◼
►
could there ever be a volume that's 1.1
[TS]
00:33:18
◼
►
terabytes well that's your fusion drive
[TS]
00:33:19
◼
►
dev just two is the fusion drive made up
[TS]
00:33:21
◼
►
with loathing so you see you know it's
[TS]
00:33:23
◼
►
still got the recovery a hard disk
[TS]
00:33:25
◼
►
partition I'm assuming that's carved out
[TS]
00:33:27
◼
►
of the spinning disk and it's got the
[TS]
00:33:29
◼
►
little you know boot OS 10 partition
[TS]
00:33:32
◼
►
thing for going in recovery mode when he
[TS]
00:33:35
◼
►
does info on disk 0 which was the the
[TS]
00:33:39
◼
►
one that just has the Apple boot thing
[TS]
00:33:40
◼
►
it says no file system on it at all is
[TS]
00:33:43
◼
►
that it's an apple the device is the
[TS]
00:33:45
◼
►
Apple SSD it's got a new volume name and
[TS]
00:33:48
◼
►
no file system on it all when it doesn't
[TS]
00:33:51
◼
►
on disk one which was the one terabyte
[TS]
00:33:53
◼
►
spinning disk thing you know this is
[TS]
00:33:56
◼
►
apple HD blah blah blah no file system
[TS]
00:33:59
◼
►
on it at all not mounted when he runs it
[TS]
00:34:02
◼
►
on just to dev just to says though this
[TS]
00:34:05
◼
►
is Mac another HD it's jerald hfs+
[TS]
00:34:07
◼
►
volume and it's you know at one point
[TS]
00:34:09
◼
►
one terabytes in size this is the
[TS]
00:34:11
◼
►
logical volume that's been created out
[TS]
00:34:14
◼
►
of those two physical things so to
[TS]
00:34:15
◼
►
answer the question we had last week of
[TS]
00:34:17
◼
►
what would happen if you pulled out the
[TS]
00:34:19
◼
►
SSD or pulled out the other thing and we
[TS]
00:34:20
◼
►
just put one of the things in the output
[TS]
00:34:23
◼
►
of disk you till here on this actual
[TS]
00:34:24
◼
►
fusion drive Mack says those things
[TS]
00:34:26
◼
►
which show up is having no file system
[TS]
00:34:27
◼
►
whatsoever like you would say this disks
[TS]
00:34:29
◼
►
uninitialized do you want me I'm
[TS]
00:34:30
◼
►
assuming it would say that because it
[TS]
00:34:31
◼
►
doesn't even have a file system on it as
[TS]
00:34:32
◼
►
far as the computer is concerned it just
[TS]
00:34:35
◼
►
looks like you know random garbage only
[TS]
00:34:38
◼
►
Deb disc 2 which is the logical I'm
[TS]
00:34:41
◼
►
shows up as an actual volume with the
[TS]
00:34:43
◼
►
size that couldn't possibly exist on any
[TS]
00:34:45
◼
►
single disc with that's you know that's
[TS]
00:34:46
◼
►
what we thought so when he does discute
[TS]
00:34:47
◼
►
LCS lists and lists the output of the
[TS]
00:34:50
◼
►
core storage out but shows one logical
[TS]
00:34:52
◼
►
volume group with two physical volumes
[TS]
00:34:54
◼
►
got the you know the SSD on the physical
[TS]
00:34:56
◼
►
disk one logical volume family and out
[TS]
00:34:59
◼
►
of that has made one logical volume
[TS]
00:35:00
◼
►
called Macintosh HD that's you know that
[TS]
00:35:03
◼
►
ends up being disk too ah and this
[TS]
00:35:05
◼
►
exactly matches the output of the stuff
[TS]
00:35:09
◼
►
that Oh Patrick Stein was doing he is
[TS]
00:35:14
◼
►
his output of his logical volume groups
[TS]
00:35:17
◼
►
in the physical volume stuff like that
[TS]
00:35:18
◼
►
it looks like this so this is pretty
[TS]
00:35:20
◼
►
conclusive evidence that what Patrick
[TS]
00:35:21
◼
►
was doing is what fusion drive is and
[TS]
00:35:25
◼
►
you know unless I mean the only thing we
[TS]
00:35:27
◼
►
don't know is how did Apple create this
[TS]
00:35:30
◼
►
core storage volume is there some new
[TS]
00:35:31
◼
►
special flag that they added to say i'll
[TS]
00:35:34
◼
►
make this fusion drive thing it seems
[TS]
00:35:35
◼
►
like there probably isn't because
[TS]
00:35:36
◼
►
Patrick didn't use any special flag that
[TS]
00:35:38
◼
►
says you know join these two discs into
[TS]
00:35:40
◼
►
a single logical volume oh and by the
[TS]
00:35:42
◼
►
way do that thing where you watch how
[TS]
00:35:43
◼
►
much I use them in shuffle data around
[TS]
00:35:45
◼
►
like it seems like that happens no
[TS]
00:35:46
◼
►
matter what so this is some finally some
[TS]
00:35:51
◼
►
actual concrete technical information
[TS]
00:35:54
◼
►
about how this stuff works I would
[TS]
00:35:56
◼
►
discourage people from immediately
[TS]
00:35:59
◼
►
following it firing up the terminal and
[TS]
00:36:00
◼
►
running man to scoop tail and figure out
[TS]
00:36:02
◼
►
how to do this themselves unless you're
[TS]
00:36:03
◼
►
doing on like a scratch Mac with disks
[TS]
00:36:05
◼
►
you don't care about because it is very
[TS]
00:36:07
◼
►
easy to accidentally hose yourself when
[TS]
00:36:09
◼
►
using tools like this none of this is
[TS]
00:36:12
◼
►
being done by the GUI this is all
[TS]
00:36:13
◼
►
command line stuff you have to know you
[TS]
00:36:16
◼
►
know device numbers and it's very easy
[TS]
00:36:18
◼
►
to get confused about what Deb disk 0
[TS]
00:36:19
◼
►
and disk 1 are and stuff like that and
[TS]
00:36:21
◼
►
just end up hosing yourself so i would
[TS]
00:36:23
◼
►
not recommend that you run out and do
[TS]
00:36:24
◼
►
this the one question that i had for lee
[TS]
00:36:26
◼
►
that he wasn't able to check it before
[TS]
00:36:28
◼
►
the show was if you use these
[TS]
00:36:31
◼
►
command-line utility a Drake did and
[TS]
00:36:33
◼
►
make yourself your own fusion drive add
[TS]
00:36:36
◼
►
a couple of specialist two questions one
[TS]
00:36:39
◼
►
is can you make a few here I've out of
[TS]
00:36:41
◼
►
like seven discs and I see no reason why
[TS]
00:36:42
◼
►
you couldn't because the whole point of
[TS]
00:36:44
◼
►
course storage is you could just add
[TS]
00:36:45
◼
►
physical volumes on there it doesn't
[TS]
00:36:46
◼
►
just have to be to right and the second
[TS]
00:36:49
◼
►
question is say you make your own little
[TS]
00:36:50
◼
►
fusion drive can you boot from is there
[TS]
00:36:53
◼
►
anything special you have to do to boot
[TS]
00:36:55
◼
►
from it so say I had my mac pro here and
[TS]
00:36:57
◼
►
I took two hard drives to let's say to
[TS]
00:36:59
◼
►
external hard drives and I joined them
[TS]
00:37:01
◼
►
into a fusion drive and I installed OS
[TS]
00:37:03
◼
►
10 on it can I boot from basically boot
[TS]
00:37:06
◼
►
from to external hard drives and same
[TS]
00:37:08
◼
►
question for internal what if i use to
[TS]
00:37:09
◼
►
internal drives in a game though can i
[TS]
00:37:11
◼
►
boot from that obviously the mac mini
[TS]
00:37:13
◼
►
can boot from it but there may be some
[TS]
00:37:15
◼
►
weird procedure be like we're really
[TS]
00:37:16
◼
►
it's booting off like the recovery
[TS]
00:37:18
◼
►
partition and the curry partition is
[TS]
00:37:19
◼
►
looking at nvram or some other setting
[TS]
00:37:21
◼
►
and seeing okay well I'm really supposed
[TS]
00:37:23
◼
►
to boot from this other one and it
[TS]
00:37:24
◼
►
switches over like what is the bootstrap
[TS]
00:37:26
◼
►
procedure when all the attached disks
[TS]
00:37:28
◼
►
appear to have no file systems on them
[TS]
00:37:30
◼
►
like it's all it's all happening in
[TS]
00:37:32
◼
►
software so that's still an unanswered
[TS]
00:37:34
◼
►
question but I think that's the surprise
[TS]
00:37:36
◼
►
this week is that you know good old core
[TS]
00:37:38
◼
►
storage
[TS]
00:37:38
◼
►
they're all along or at least as of ten
[TS]
00:37:41
◼
►
82 is doing this magical file moving
[TS]
00:37:43
◼
►
stuff and nobody knew it and so you know
[TS]
00:37:46
◼
►
before those imacs were announced you
[TS]
00:37:48
◼
►
could have in theory made your own
[TS]
00:37:50
◼
►
fusion drive and got these interesting
[TS]
00:37:52
◼
►
performance characteristics out of it
[TS]
00:37:53
◼
►
before I believe in announce this may be
[TS]
00:37:55
◼
►
the first time that Apple is shipping
[TS]
00:37:57
◼
►
something as a headlining feature in a
[TS]
00:37:59
◼
►
keynote it was really on all of our
[TS]
00:38:01
◼
►
discs oh no while we're watching it
[TS]
00:38:03
◼
►
creepy huh yeah i'm i'm not about to go
[TS]
00:38:09
◼
►
and try to experiment this myself
[TS]
00:38:10
◼
►
because I do have four internal hard
[TS]
00:38:12
◼
►
drives and one external on this thing
[TS]
00:38:13
◼
►
and then a couple of spare mechanisms
[TS]
00:38:15
◼
►
hanging around as well with no ways to
[TS]
00:38:17
◼
►
put them ah but they're all filled with
[TS]
00:38:19
◼
►
stuff so I don't really have time to
[TS]
00:38:20
◼
►
play so I would still recommend for
[TS]
00:38:23
◼
►
everyone who doesn't have a spare
[TS]
00:38:25
◼
►
machine spare drives to mess around with
[TS]
00:38:26
◼
►
only use Fusion Drive in its supported
[TS]
00:38:29
◼
►
configuration on the machines that say
[TS]
00:38:30
◼
►
they supported in the ways that are
[TS]
00:38:32
◼
►
supported Haitian your nerd you want to
[TS]
00:38:34
◼
►
you want to play around then i would say
[TS]
00:38:36
◼
►
fire up the terminal and type man space
[TS]
00:38:37
◼
►
disk you till all onward and scroll
[TS]
00:38:41
◼
►
until you see the section about course
[TS]
00:38:42
◼
►
storage and go to town and good luck
[TS]
00:38:44
◼
►
good night and good luck yes skj Haley
[TS]
00:38:49
◼
►
says in Shiro what could possibly go
[TS]
00:38:51
◼
►
wrong Yeah right what me worry you know
[TS]
00:38:54
◼
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look possibly go wrong as you will wipe
[TS]
00:38:56
◼
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your entire disk oops yeah be careful
[TS]
00:39:00
◼
►
guys that will never happen alright get
[TS]
00:39:04
◼
►
another sponsor I have two more I will
[TS]
00:39:06
◼
►
do lynda.com now they are an online
[TS]
00:39:08
◼
►
learning company with more than 77,000
[TS]
00:39:11
◼
►
video tutorials they teach you things
[TS]
00:39:13
◼
►
like how to program they teach you
[TS]
00:39:17
◼
►
things like how to design they teach
[TS]
00:39:19
◼
►
tons and tons of things that you thought
[TS]
00:39:22
◼
►
maybe weren't teachable but they are
[TS]
00:39:25
◼
►
teachable web design programming
[TS]
00:39:27
◼
►
photography business audio video 3d
[TS]
00:39:30
◼
►
animation you name it they're adding new
[TS]
00:39:31
◼
►
courses every week the training like a
[TS]
00:39:34
◼
►
library and like Gary keeps pace with
[TS]
00:39:37
◼
►
today's fast-changing technical and
[TS]
00:39:38
◼
►
software skills you name it they've got
[TS]
00:39:40
◼
►
a course on it i love screencasting I've
[TS]
00:39:42
◼
►
done screencasting and I've learned a
[TS]
00:39:44
◼
►
lot from screencasting they have a
[TS]
00:39:47
◼
►
membership this is how it works you pay
[TS]
00:39:49
◼
►
25 bucks per month you get unlimited 24
[TS]
00:39:51
◼
►
by 7 access
[TS]
00:39:52
◼
►
to all of their video courses and these
[TS]
00:39:54
◼
►
things are taught by expert instructors
[TS]
00:39:56
◼
►
they're taught by people who know what
[TS]
00:39:57
◼
►
they're doing real world experts come
[TS]
00:39:59
◼
►
and they bust out of course go to
[TS]
00:40:02
◼
►
linda.com and spelled ly NDA Linda calm
[TS]
00:40:06
◼
►
/ 5 by 5 you get a free 7 day trial
[TS]
00:40:09
◼
►
where you get access to tons and tons
[TS]
00:40:11
◼
►
and tons of stuff and you support the
[TS]
00:40:13
◼
►
show Linda calm / 5 by 5 it's a great
[TS]
00:40:15
◼
►
way to learn and they do really really
[TS]
00:40:16
◼
►
great work go check him out Linda that's
[TS]
00:40:23
◼
►
it that's all spot yeah I had some other
[TS]
00:40:25
◼
►
technical details Fusion Drive that was
[TS]
00:40:28
◼
►
in my head and now it it has departed me
[TS]
00:40:30
◼
►
oh yeah I guess there's despite all this
[TS]
00:40:33
◼
►
evidence a lot of it still seems
[TS]
00:40:34
◼
►
circumstantial to me in particular like
[TS]
00:40:38
◼
►
this this sort of trying to observe
[TS]
00:40:39
◼
►
course storage moving data from one
[TS]
00:40:42
◼
►
place to the other and experimentally
[TS]
00:40:44
◼
►
determining it by looking at the
[TS]
00:40:46
◼
►
transfer rates and the fact that
[TS]
00:40:48
◼
►
activity is going on with the mechanisms
[TS]
00:40:50
◼
►
even when you're not doing any like
[TS]
00:40:52
◼
►
that's ninety-nine point nine percent
[TS]
00:40:53
◼
►
sure but I would still really love a
[TS]
00:40:55
◼
►
real technical document or something
[TS]
00:40:57
◼
►
like straight from Apple's mouth like
[TS]
00:40:58
◼
►
this is how it works this is what
[TS]
00:41:00
◼
►
happens this is the underlying you know
[TS]
00:41:02
◼
►
implementation details of it instead of
[TS]
00:41:04
◼
►
having us to do all this guesswork stuff
[TS]
00:41:05
◼
►
I would still prefer that so but it
[TS]
00:41:08
◼
►
seems to me that all this is on the
[TS]
00:41:09
◼
►
right track and this is how it's done
[TS]
00:41:11
◼
►
and this much much less confusing now I
[TS]
00:41:13
◼
►
less confusing than their explanation
[TS]
00:41:15
◼
►
now now that it's like you know so its
[TS]
00:41:17
◼
►
core storage but you keep talking about
[TS]
00:41:19
◼
►
files and apps makes no sense now makes
[TS]
00:41:21
◼
►
so much more sense and and in hindsight
[TS]
00:41:23
◼
►
it makes sense that Apple said it is
[TS]
00:41:25
◼
►
Apple's not going to talk about managing
[TS]
00:41:27
◼
►
blocks of storage they're going to say
[TS]
00:41:29
◼
►
files and applications because that's
[TS]
00:41:30
◼
►
what people care about it they don't
[TS]
00:41:31
◼
►
really care that it could be that only
[TS]
00:41:33
◼
►
the first megabyte of that application
[TS]
00:41:34
◼
►
is on the SSD because only the first
[TS]
00:41:36
◼
►
megabyte of it is the thing that ever
[TS]
00:41:37
◼
►
gets rich or something like that yeah so
[TS]
00:41:39
◼
►
does it say in the chat room yes wdc you
[TS]
00:41:41
◼
►
next year presumably they'll talk about
[TS]
00:41:42
◼
►
this if only to brag because really it
[TS]
00:41:44
◼
►
probably has very few practical and blue
[TS]
00:41:46
◼
►
implications for people writing software
[TS]
00:41:49
◼
►
for OS 10 but they do tend to like you
[TS]
00:41:52
◼
►
know look at this cool thing that we did
[TS]
00:41:54
◼
►
everybody and they'll talk about it
[TS]
00:41:55
◼
►
there maybe there's like one or two new
[TS]
00:41:56
◼
►
API is about how to handle Fusion Drive
[TS]
00:41:58
◼
►
things and I use an excuse to have 17
[TS]
00:42:00
◼
►
slides about the implementation of
[TS]
00:42:02
◼
►
fusion drive
[TS]
00:42:03
◼
►
I will enjoy that at least least I hope
[TS]
00:42:05
◼
►
they do all right so my main topic for
[TS]
00:42:08
◼
►
today oh is 41 minutes in can you guess
[TS]
00:42:13
◼
►
George Lucas and the now we already did
[TS]
00:42:17
◼
►
that ipad mini I would have interrogated
[TS]
00:42:22
◼
►
you about drive that many if you had one
[TS]
00:42:23
◼
►
but you don't it's still on the vehicle
[TS]
00:42:26
◼
►
for delivery you failed me for the last
[TS]
00:42:28
◼
►
time I'm pollen job but no today I'm
[TS]
00:42:32
◼
►
gonna talk about the Apple executive
[TS]
00:42:35
◼
►
reshuffle forestall is out yes i have is
[TS]
00:42:41
◼
►
ian sure been the title of their press
[TS]
00:42:44
◼
►
release yes so the actual title of their
[TS]
00:42:46
◼
►
press release was apple announces
[TS]
00:42:49
◼
►
changes to increase collaboration across
[TS]
00:42:51
◼
►
hardware software and services and they
[TS]
00:42:54
◼
►
do this weird thing where there's an
[TS]
00:42:56
◼
►
ampersand between software and services
[TS]
00:42:57
◼
►
so i'm assuming software ampersand
[TS]
00:42:59
◼
►
services is a single thing that is a
[TS]
00:43:01
◼
►
unit yeah anyway uh just kind of
[TS]
00:43:06
◼
►
euphemistic business doublespeak because
[TS]
00:43:08
◼
►
you know whenever a company announces
[TS]
00:43:12
◼
►
something that happened to them that
[TS]
00:43:14
◼
►
they didn't really plan for or that's
[TS]
00:43:16
◼
►
like could be interpreted as bad news
[TS]
00:43:18
◼
►
they are not direct with the the
[TS]
00:43:21
◼
►
headline yeah I mean yeah like they took
[TS]
00:43:24
◼
►
it's not like they trying to hide it but
[TS]
00:43:25
◼
►
their spin doctoring it as you would say
[TS]
00:43:28
◼
►
yeah at least in the title like they're
[TS]
00:43:30
◼
►
not gonna say we've just fired a really
[TS]
00:43:32
◼
►
important executive who's done you know
[TS]
00:43:34
◼
►
like that that's that's the headline the
[TS]
00:43:35
◼
►
wheel get from like you said forestall
[TS]
00:43:37
◼
►
out that could have been the two word
[TS]
00:43:39
◼
►
title of this thing and in fact was the
[TS]
00:43:40
◼
►
the the URL of Gruber space with a
[TS]
00:43:43
◼
►
reference and a little bit for stall out
[TS]
00:43:45
◼
►
like that is the headline piece of
[TS]
00:43:46
◼
►
amanda berry they bury the headline
[TS]
00:43:48
◼
►
under we're going to increase
[TS]
00:43:49
◼
►
collaboration and people are going to
[TS]
00:43:50
◼
►
take the responsibilities and by the way
[TS]
00:43:51
◼
►
we fired this dude right and this is a
[TS]
00:43:54
◼
►
buried that in there right so I think
[TS]
00:43:57
◼
►
was like in the first paragraph but but
[TS]
00:43:59
◼
►
it was like apple also announced like in
[TS]
00:44:02
◼
►
addition to what we just told you about
[TS]
00:44:03
◼
►
these people get new responsibilities
[TS]
00:44:04
◼
►
apple also announced the Scott fallstowe
[TS]
00:44:06
◼
►
will be leaving next year and will serve
[TS]
00:44:08
◼
►
as adviser to CEO Tim Cook's nicely they
[TS]
00:44:10
◼
►
could do it in november so they can say
[TS]
00:44:11
◼
►
next year so it seems like i'll be
[TS]
00:44:12
◼
►
leaving but all the notes that's a month
[TS]
00:44:14
◼
►
right you know hilton
[TS]
00:44:16
◼
►
leaving next year I guess he could leave
[TS]
00:44:17
◼
►
anytime next year but it seems to me
[TS]
00:44:19
◼
►
people keep saying oh well Scott far so
[TS]
00:44:21
◼
►
we'll be there for another year now no
[TS]
00:44:22
◼
►
talking there talk in January one or the
[TS]
00:44:26
◼
►
stroke of midnight on January fun right
[TS]
00:44:28
◼
►
and and that's the interesting like when
[TS]
00:44:31
◼
►
you reach a certain pay grade when
[TS]
00:44:33
◼
►
you're working for the man or what is
[TS]
00:44:34
◼
►
here what is your expression corporate
[TS]
00:44:36
◼
►
decision that's you you're the you're a
[TS]
00:44:38
◼
►
corporate stooge I am my total am uh but
[TS]
00:44:41
◼
►
when you reach a certain level in
[TS]
00:44:43
◼
►
American corporations they'll they bend
[TS]
00:44:48
◼
►
over backwards to preserve the or that
[TS]
00:44:51
◼
►
you are an important good person who
[TS]
00:44:53
◼
►
should not be publicly insulted or
[TS]
00:44:55
◼
►
whatever right so if you're just like a
[TS]
00:44:57
◼
►
regular rank-and-file employee uh they
[TS]
00:45:02
◼
►
lay you off because the factory's
[TS]
00:45:03
◼
►
closing or something and you just get
[TS]
00:45:05
◼
►
laid off and all the stories about your
[TS]
00:45:06
◼
►
like these people got laid off if you
[TS]
00:45:08
◼
►
are a rank-and-file employee and you get
[TS]
00:45:09
◼
►
fired because people don't like you or
[TS]
00:45:12
◼
►
like fired with cause or something like
[TS]
00:45:13
◼
►
that you got fine you got yeah you got
[TS]
00:45:16
◼
►
fired like there's never any press
[TS]
00:45:17
◼
►
releases associated but there was that
[TS]
00:45:18
◼
►
if someone calls and say what happened
[TS]
00:45:20
◼
►
to blah blah blah like something you
[TS]
00:45:21
◼
►
could try to apply for next job and
[TS]
00:45:22
◼
►
someone calls up your old company so
[TS]
00:45:23
◼
►
yeah we fired him because you know uh he
[TS]
00:45:26
◼
►
was sexually harassing people or he was
[TS]
00:45:27
◼
►
always he stole out of the register oh
[TS]
00:45:29
◼
►
yeah he's still out of the register or
[TS]
00:45:31
◼
►
he never showed up on time or like they
[TS]
00:45:33
◼
►
say that they fired you but if once you
[TS]
00:45:35
◼
►
pass some certain threshold nobody will
[TS]
00:45:38
◼
►
ever say that they fired you even
[TS]
00:45:39
◼
►
they'll have a press release about and
[TS]
00:45:41
◼
►
they won't say we're firing Scott
[TS]
00:45:42
◼
►
Forstall they'll just never say it like
[TS]
00:45:44
◼
►
you know but everybody knows because if
[TS]
00:45:47
◼
►
you were leaving on good terms the press
[TS]
00:45:49
◼
►
release looks very different like we're
[TS]
00:45:51
◼
►
very sad to see like the Burt Ron so
[TS]
00:45:52
◼
►
late when he left he's done such great
[TS]
00:45:54
◼
►
things for us and we're sad to see him
[TS]
00:45:55
◼
►
go and he's leaving and it's totally
[TS]
00:45:57
◼
►
clear that he's he's leaving of his own
[TS]
00:45:59
◼
►
accord he's not being fired and there's
[TS]
00:46:01
◼
►
a middle ground more like you're kind of
[TS]
00:46:03
◼
►
being forced out or encouraged to retire
[TS]
00:46:06
◼
►
whatever but this one reads like this is
[TS]
00:46:10
◼
►
what happened this is what a firing
[TS]
00:46:11
◼
►
looks like here when you're when you're
[TS]
00:46:13
◼
►
a multimillionaire Ryan you're a
[TS]
00:46:14
◼
►
multi-millionaire this is how you get
[TS]
00:46:15
◼
►
fired they never say you're fired like
[TS]
00:46:17
◼
►
cuz they just don't want to don't want
[TS]
00:46:19
◼
►
to hurt your feelings I'm and I think
[TS]
00:46:21
◼
►
that's not necessarily a bad thing it's
[TS]
00:46:22
◼
►
not like I'm saying he should say he was
[TS]
00:46:24
◼
►
fired just like they do for the peons I
[TS]
00:46:26
◼
►
think if anything the river should be
[TS]
00:46:28
◼
►
true that
[TS]
00:46:29
◼
►
peons should get the same kind of
[TS]
00:46:30
◼
►
respect and kind of like you know you
[TS]
00:46:33
◼
►
don't have to be so rude about it just
[TS]
00:46:35
◼
►
because they're an underling and are
[TS]
00:46:37
◼
►
multi-millionaires and aren't powerful
[TS]
00:46:38
◼
►
everyone should get this kind of
[TS]
00:46:39
◼
►
treatment that's I'm not I don't think
[TS]
00:46:41
◼
►
it's unfair that it's got forestalls
[TS]
00:46:43
◼
►
firing is spoken about euphemistically
[TS]
00:46:45
◼
►
think they should they should do this to
[TS]
00:46:47
◼
►
everybody unless of course you did
[TS]
00:46:48
◼
►
something horrible like set fire to the
[TS]
00:46:49
◼
►
building or you know whatever then they
[TS]
00:46:50
◼
►
can be more honest but I you know from
[TS]
00:46:54
◼
►
this announcement it appears that Scott
[TS]
00:46:56
◼
►
Forstall was fired like he did not
[TS]
00:46:59
◼
►
willingly go and the changes are Johnny
[TS]
00:47:02
◼
►
I will provide leadership in the
[TS]
00:47:03
◼
►
direction and direction for human
[TS]
00:47:05
◼
►
interface across the company in addition
[TS]
00:47:07
◼
►
to his role as leader industrial design
[TS]
00:47:09
◼
►
Eddy Cue is taking over Syrian maps in
[TS]
00:47:11
◼
►
addition to all the other stuff that he
[TS]
00:47:12
◼
►
does like iTunes map store and I
[TS]
00:47:14
◼
►
bookstore and iCloud federighi who was
[TS]
00:47:17
◼
►
in chart Craig federighi was in charge
[TS]
00:47:19
◼
►
of OS 10 is now also in charge of iOS
[TS]
00:47:21
◼
►
which was forced all sold job at Bob
[TS]
00:47:25
◼
►
Mansfield who had previously retired but
[TS]
00:47:27
◼
►
then came back is now going to be in
[TS]
00:47:28
◼
►
charge of the heat coming out before all
[TS]
00:47:31
◼
►
of this right yes he left before and he
[TS]
00:47:34
◼
►
came back before it but now he is being
[TS]
00:47:36
◼
►
assigned this new responsibility for the
[TS]
00:47:37
◼
►
technology group how much before had he
[TS]
00:47:40
◼
►
come back do you recall was it a couple
[TS]
00:47:41
◼
►
months or what I have a timeline later
[TS]
00:47:44
◼
►
in the night I apologize so we will get
[TS]
00:47:46
◼
►
to it yes I know you can't see my nuts
[TS]
00:47:47
◼
►
uh yeah and and additionally I think
[TS]
00:47:52
◼
►
this is I think this is in the order it
[TS]
00:47:53
◼
►
wasn't in the end of thing additionally
[TS]
00:47:54
◼
►
oh and by the way before we get out of
[TS]
00:47:56
◼
►
this spreadsheet John Brown is out is
[TS]
00:47:59
◼
►
leaving Apple that's what they say again
[TS]
00:48:01
◼
►
fired right he he's not leaving apple of
[TS]
00:48:05
◼
►
his own accord he didn't retire he
[TS]
00:48:07
◼
►
hasn't you know oh it's been a great run
[TS]
00:48:09
◼
►
here for the past seven years at Apple
[TS]
00:48:12
◼
►
but now I'm ready to try new things now
[TS]
00:48:13
◼
►
he was there for like six months now
[TS]
00:48:14
◼
►
he's out and a search for a new head of
[TS]
00:48:16
◼
►
retails underway he was the guy who
[TS]
00:48:17
◼
►
replaced Ron Johnson is the guy
[TS]
00:48:19
◼
►
responsible for the Apple stores and now
[TS]
00:48:21
◼
►
they're looking for new replacement
[TS]
00:48:22
◼
►
alright so that's the summary of the
[TS]
00:48:25
◼
►
news and now I want to dive into it in
[TS]
00:48:28
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more detail where we'll get to all those
[TS]
00:48:30
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dates and names and stuff like that ah
[TS]
00:48:32
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but as we said before the gist of this
[TS]
00:48:36
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like on the web you know where they cut
[TS]
00:48:38
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through all the BS and say there's a big
[TS]
00:48:39
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press release a bunch of things happen
[TS]
00:48:41
◼
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in this press release but the
[TS]
00:48:43
◼
►
headline the lead of this story is
[TS]
00:48:44
◼
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forced all-out forestalls gone right and
[TS]
00:48:47
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and he's been fired and we all see that
[TS]
00:48:49
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that's you know that's clearly what
[TS]
00:48:51
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happened and all the stories have been
[TS]
00:48:54
◼
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about what happened that this guy who's
[TS]
00:48:57
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been with Apple for so long and been in
[TS]
00:48:59
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charge of such important things how did
[TS]
00:49:01
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he get fire what did he do what was the
[TS]
00:49:03
◼
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cause for firing naps and you know and
[TS]
00:49:07
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yes they're not if the nut if they're
[TS]
00:49:09
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not even gonna say he was fired they're
[TS]
00:49:11
◼
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not gonna list in the press release what
[TS]
00:49:13
◼
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he did if John for still goes to get
[TS]
00:49:15
◼
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another job somewhere that that person
[TS]
00:49:17
◼
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won't be able to call apple and say why
[TS]
00:49:18
◼
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should you guys fire him was you know
[TS]
00:49:20
◼
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can you tell they're never gonna say
[TS]
00:49:21
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that certainly not gonna say it in the
[TS]
00:49:23
◼
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press release but all the stories have
[TS]
00:49:25
◼
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been about that and we've all read the
[TS]
00:49:26
◼
►
stories maps you brought that up uh Siri
[TS]
00:49:29
◼
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skeuomorphic design yeah uh and and but
[TS]
00:49:33
◼
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the big one I see us at the undercurrent
[TS]
00:49:35
◼
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of everything is like personality stuff
[TS]
00:49:38
◼
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of like he was mean he didn't get along
[TS]
00:49:40
◼
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with people he took credit for things
[TS]
00:49:43
◼
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that you know that there weren't his
[TS]
00:49:45
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like all sorts of interpersonal stuff
[TS]
00:49:47
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about how you know like personality
[TS]
00:49:52
◼
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issues not some like in other words the
[TS]
00:49:55
◼
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ID since that Kurt runs underneath
[TS]
00:49:57
◼
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everything it's like well yeah he had
[TS]
00:49:59
◼
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problems with all these things and there
[TS]
00:50:01
◼
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have been some issues with with products
[TS]
00:50:02
◼
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but you know the real reason is cuz like
[TS]
00:50:04
◼
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there was some sort of personality
[TS]
00:50:05
◼
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conflict and people didn't like him or
[TS]
00:50:07
◼
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whatever um and what I have to say about
[TS]
00:50:10
◼
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all all that the entire idea is that
[TS]
00:50:12
◼
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there's it's you can't talk about
[TS]
00:50:18
◼
►
Forrestal leaving Apple with any actual
[TS]
00:50:21
◼
►
knowledge or authority because basically
[TS]
00:50:27
◼
►
nobody actually knows what happened I
[TS]
00:50:29
◼
►
know all these stores in New York Times
[TS]
00:50:31
◼
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and Wall Street Journal have like
[TS]
00:50:32
◼
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sources close to or app people involved
[TS]
00:50:34
◼
►
there up employees and stuff like that
[TS]
00:50:35
◼
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uh but i think it's and then like all
[TS]
00:50:41
◼
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these articles will say we talked to
[TS]
00:50:42
◼
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sources close to her and they said that
[TS]
00:50:43
◼
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this person couldn't be in the same room
[TS]
00:50:45
◼
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with that person and they had sort of
[TS]
00:50:46
◼
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personality conflicts and blah blah and
[TS]
00:50:47
◼
►
then the rest of the article proceeds as
[TS]
00:50:49
◼
►
if the you know they make these
[TS]
00:50:51
◼
►
confident assertions well we have a
[TS]
00:50:53
◼
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source or two sources and they say this
[TS]
00:50:54
◼
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and therefore and then the whole rest
[TS]
00:50:56
◼
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the article uses those assertions as
[TS]
00:50:57
◼
►
premises given this information that
[TS]
00:50:59
◼
►
we've already told you from these
[TS]
00:51:01
◼
►
sources which you will now serve as a
[TS]
00:51:02
◼
►
hundred percent true now let's discuss
[TS]
00:51:04
◼
►
what that means right and I don't think
[TS]
00:51:06
◼
►
that's a useful way to reason about this
[TS]
00:51:10
◼
►
because I don't think you could have any
[TS]
00:51:12
◼
►
confidence in in the assertions of your
[TS]
00:51:15
◼
►
sources about why he was fired as well
[TS]
00:51:19
◼
►
Shipley was saying on Twitter the other
[TS]
00:51:21
◼
►
day uh he he was fired from you know
[TS]
00:51:24
◼
►
forced out of or whatever because he was
[TS]
00:51:25
◼
►
he was at that level where you don't
[TS]
00:51:26
◼
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stay fired but he himself said fire from
[TS]
00:51:29
◼
►
Omni group the famous next and then Mac
[TS]
00:51:32
◼
►
os10 software group that he co-founded
[TS]
00:51:35
◼
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uh and he said I don't know why I was
[TS]
00:51:39
◼
►
fired found a group all he knows is his
[TS]
00:51:41
◼
►
side of the story even if you were to
[TS]
00:51:42
◼
►
ask scott forstall why do you think you
[TS]
00:51:43
◼
►
were fired you're still not gonna get
[TS]
00:51:45
◼
►
the whole story there because no single
[TS]
00:51:47
◼
►
person probably it's certainly no single
[TS]
00:51:48
◼
►
person who's not like tim cook or scott
[TS]
00:51:51
◼
►
first well maybe you got both of them
[TS]
00:51:52
◼
►
combined you could figure it out uh but
[TS]
00:51:55
◼
►
like as they say history is written by
[TS]
00:51:57
◼
►
the winners and that's definitely true
[TS]
00:51:59
◼
►
when it comes to corporate press
[TS]
00:52:00
◼
►
releases and corporate politics uh you
[TS]
00:52:04
◼
►
know it when you see stories leaked
[TS]
00:52:06
◼
►
intentionally leaked or not about oh he
[TS]
00:52:09
◼
►
had personality conflicts or whatever
[TS]
00:52:10
◼
►
those are the people who want and it's
[TS]
00:52:12
◼
►
got Forrestal to be gone and they're
[TS]
00:52:13
◼
►
gonna sell their side of the story is
[TS]
00:52:15
◼
►
not necessarily the objective truth of
[TS]
00:52:17
◼
►
course they're gonna say bad things
[TS]
00:52:20
◼
►
about him because they wanted him to go
[TS]
00:52:21
◼
►
but who's to say they're right in that
[TS]
00:52:23
◼
►
conflict we don't have any visibility
[TS]
00:52:24
◼
►
into the internal stupid personal
[TS]
00:52:27
◼
►
political situation inside Apple and you
[TS]
00:52:29
◼
►
just can't go by the things you hear
[TS]
00:52:32
◼
►
from people inside Apple because most
[TS]
00:52:34
◼
►
likely you are hearing from the people
[TS]
00:52:35
◼
►
who wanted him to go he doesn't get a
[TS]
00:52:38
◼
►
fair shot in that he he doesn't have any
[TS]
00:52:40
◼
►
say in the corporate communication about
[TS]
00:52:41
◼
►
it he doesn't get to influence who's
[TS]
00:52:43
◼
►
going to be in all these stories so I
[TS]
00:52:44
◼
►
think it's completely unfair to Scott
[TS]
00:52:46
◼
►
Forstall to assume that all those
[TS]
00:52:49
◼
►
stories about his personality are are
[TS]
00:52:51
◼
►
true and in any way really like because
[TS]
00:52:54
◼
►
it's just it's a complete and balanced
[TS]
00:52:57
◼
►
and a complete communication failure and
[TS]
00:52:59
◼
►
again i would say who got forced forced
[TS]
00:53:00
◼
►
all in person to be on this show and
[TS]
00:53:02
◼
►
interview him his side of it isn't
[TS]
00:53:03
◼
►
necessarily true it's somewhere in the
[TS]
00:53:05
◼
►
middle there right so I'm not interested
[TS]
00:53:09
◼
►
thinking about or dwelling on why it is
[TS]
00:53:12
◼
►
that he was forced out of the company
[TS]
00:53:13
◼
►
but I think there are lots of things we
[TS]
00:53:16
◼
►
can talk about about this change without
[TS]
00:53:18
◼
►
really caring why it happened
[TS]
00:53:20
◼
►
necessarily I mean we can look at you
[TS]
00:53:23
◼
►
know possible things that could have
[TS]
00:53:25
◼
►
contributed to basically I'm resigned to
[TS]
00:53:27
◼
►
never knowing and really don't care that
[TS]
00:53:29
◼
►
much about what is it that made this
[TS]
00:53:32
◼
►
they brought this over the edge what
[TS]
00:53:35
◼
►
made it go from some sort of internal
[TS]
00:53:38
◼
►
problem to the solutions this problem is
[TS]
00:53:40
◼
►
to get rid of force though does that
[TS]
00:53:42
◼
►
does that make sense yes and I'm I don't
[TS]
00:53:47
◼
►
know like I tried to put myself in the
[TS]
00:53:49
◼
►
shoes of one of these multi-millionaire
[TS]
00:53:52
◼
►
executives he's mean just jump right
[TS]
00:53:54
◼
►
into that you can get into that yeah cuz
[TS]
00:53:57
◼
►
I wouldn't want like if you were Scott
[TS]
00:53:59
◼
►
for the forest all the press has not
[TS]
00:54:01
◼
►
been fair to him I feel like I mean
[TS]
00:54:02
◼
►
maybe you know maybe like in his
[TS]
00:54:06
◼
►
autobiography come combined with like an
[TS]
00:54:10
◼
►
apple tell-all history like 10 years now
[TS]
00:54:12
◼
►
we'll start to get a picture of but now
[TS]
00:54:13
◼
►
you're not gonna so it's not useful to
[TS]
00:54:16
◼
►
uh to think about that so let me back
[TS]
00:54:20
◼
►
way up and take a look at this
[TS]
00:54:22
◼
►
reshuffling without trying to care so
[TS]
00:54:26
◼
►
much about personalities and stuff like
[TS]
00:54:29
◼
►
that ok let's look at let's look at the
[TS]
00:54:31
◼
►
the Tim Cook era of Apple such as it did
[TS]
00:54:35
◼
►
so far so when Tim Cook took over a CEO
[TS]
00:54:39
◼
►
is Apple and this was before Steve Jobs
[TS]
00:54:42
◼
►
died because he he sort of handed over
[TS]
00:54:43
◼
►
the reins as he left the company Apple
[TS]
00:54:47
◼
►
was on a hell of a winning streak at
[TS]
00:54:48
◼
►
that point and so cooks job first and
[TS]
00:54:52
◼
►
foremost was to keep a good thing going
[TS]
00:54:54
◼
►
right I and that's what everybody said
[TS]
00:54:57
◼
►
when the transfer of power happened it's
[TS]
00:54:59
◼
►
like they broke don't fix it oh okies
[TS]
00:55:01
◼
►
here you know don't mess anything up man
[TS]
00:55:02
◼
►
cuz like you know they're going
[TS]
00:55:03
◼
►
gangbusters everything everything was
[TS]
00:55:05
◼
►
roses iphone
[TS]
00:55:06
◼
►
had like you know just everything Steve
[TS]
00:55:08
◼
►
Jobs had done in his past you know it
[TS]
00:55:10
◼
►
last few projects would have been just
[TS]
00:55:11
◼
►
all all thumbs up everyone was loving it
[TS]
00:55:14
◼
►
great things were happening uh and all
[TS]
00:55:17
◼
►
the reassuring statements either about
[TS]
00:55:19
◼
►
Apple or from Apple we're like don't
[TS]
00:55:21
◼
►
worry Tim's gonna do just what Steve was
[TS]
00:55:23
◼
►
doing like yeah you know he's gonna be
[TS]
00:55:26
◼
►
his own man someone so forth but he's
[TS]
00:55:27
◼
►
not gonna screw up at stuff that Steve
[TS]
00:55:29
◼
►
day because we understand like you know
[TS]
00:55:30
◼
►
don't be afraid he's not gonna suddenly
[TS]
00:55:32
◼
►
decide that Apple's gonna go into you
[TS]
00:55:33
◼
►
know the health food business uh and
[TS]
00:55:37
◼
►
this is despite the fact that Jobs
[TS]
00:55:39
◼
►
himself insisted that cook should make
[TS]
00:55:41
◼
►
his own decisions about Apple like I put
[TS]
00:55:44
◼
►
a link in the show notes to our
[TS]
00:55:45
◼
►
technical articles course when I was
[TS]
00:55:47
◼
►
saying you know don't don't ask it jobs
[TS]
00:55:48
◼
►
who say don't ask yourself what I would
[TS]
00:55:50
◼
►
you just do what it is right you know
[TS]
00:55:51
◼
►
that's Steve Jobs own advice but
[TS]
00:55:53
◼
►
everyone else in the world is like yeah
[TS]
00:55:55
◼
►
ignore was steve said do what he would
[TS]
00:55:57
◼
►
do just do it he would do it because
[TS]
00:55:58
◼
►
everything he did was awesome and you
[TS]
00:56:00
◼
►
just got to keep doing that at least in
[TS]
00:56:01
◼
►
the short term so it's like all of us
[TS]
00:56:03
◼
►
out here on the outside totally wanted
[TS]
00:56:06
◼
►
Tim Cook to just be uh to be like I'd
[TS]
00:56:09
◼
►
proxy Steve Jobs like make make us feel
[TS]
00:56:12
◼
►
like Steve Jobs it isn't really gone and
[TS]
00:56:13
◼
►
then when he died same thing like just
[TS]
00:56:15
◼
►
Tim just do what Steve would do
[TS]
00:56:16
◼
►
disregard everything do what Steven dude
[TS]
00:56:18
◼
►
except that part where he told you not
[TS]
00:56:19
◼
►
to do what he would do do everything
[TS]
00:56:21
◼
►
except that um and that's what he wanted
[TS]
00:56:23
◼
►
you know that's what we all wanted on
[TS]
00:56:25
◼
►
the outside like no customers investors
[TS]
00:56:28
◼
►
everybody who is wanted that was like
[TS]
00:56:30
◼
►
just don't screw this up man because
[TS]
00:56:31
◼
►
it's been so awesome right and so what
[TS]
00:56:33
◼
►
that means is that cook didn't come in
[TS]
00:56:35
◼
►
on his first day CEO like clean house at
[TS]
00:56:37
◼
►
the executive level you didn't go okay
[TS]
00:56:38
◼
►
now I'm the new boss in charge steve is
[TS]
00:56:40
◼
►
out and I'm making some changes I'm
[TS]
00:56:43
◼
►
gonna redecorate I'm gonna change
[TS]
00:56:44
◼
►
everything here he did not do that and
[TS]
00:56:46
◼
►
that is very common for like when a new
[TS]
00:56:47
◼
►
CEO comes into a company look at like
[TS]
00:56:49
◼
►
the other tech companies which are
[TS]
00:56:50
◼
►
incredibly dysfunctional and terrible
[TS]
00:56:52
◼
►
but like you know get every every new
[TS]
00:56:54
◼
►
CEO that's come into HP and further
[TS]
00:56:55
◼
►
screwed up or even apples olds
[TS]
00:56:57
◼
►
executives they come in and say things
[TS]
00:56:59
◼
►
are gonna change around this place like
[TS]
00:57:00
◼
►
that's how you assert yourself as a CEO
[TS]
00:57:01
◼
►
you know a marissa or that may or am i
[TS]
00:57:03
◼
►
er I know your browser name i think it's
[TS]
00:57:05
◼
►
mmm meyer the one going to yahoo she's
[TS]
00:57:09
◼
►
you know she's not gonna go in there and
[TS]
00:57:11
◼
►
go i'm just gonna continue what the
[TS]
00:57:12
◼
►
previous guy did because usually when
[TS]
00:57:14
◼
►
you CEO is changing its like that all
[TS]
00:57:17
◼
►
guys screwed things up you got to come
[TS]
00:57:18
◼
►
fix neck so you come in and you
[TS]
00:57:19
◼
►
you make some big changes right away and
[TS]
00:57:22
◼
►
cook did not do that right what he did
[TS]
00:57:25
◼
►
was inherited the exact same team that
[TS]
00:57:27
◼
►
he had been on that he had been a member
[TS]
00:57:29
◼
►
of all those members of the top level
[TS]
00:57:31
◼
►
executive staff were still there except
[TS]
00:57:34
◼
►
they took the guy in the middle of that
[TS]
00:57:36
◼
►
diagram the guy I'm unquestionably in
[TS]
00:57:38
◼
►
charge of everybody and removed him and
[TS]
00:57:40
◼
►
team dynamics changed when the team
[TS]
00:57:42
◼
►
members change and especially if the
[TS]
00:57:44
◼
►
change is we took out the guy who was in
[TS]
00:57:45
◼
►
the center of this diagram and who was
[TS]
00:57:47
◼
►
in charge now the team dynamics are
[TS]
00:57:49
◼
►
definitely going to change but the team
[TS]
00:57:50
◼
►
dynamics machines but he kept the same
[TS]
00:57:52
◼
►
team because that was part of his thing
[TS]
00:57:54
◼
►
is like he decided you know I'm not
[TS]
00:57:56
◼
►
gonna rock the boat I'm gonna come in
[TS]
00:57:57
◼
►
and I'm not going to just change
[TS]
00:57:59
◼
►
everything I'm just gonna go with what I
[TS]
00:58:00
◼
►
have but he didn't he couldn't possibly
[TS]
00:58:02
◼
►
continue what they were doing because
[TS]
00:58:03
◼
►
such a big chart of it had changed it
[TS]
00:58:06
◼
►
seemed that some kind of reshuffling was
[TS]
00:58:08
◼
►
inevitable and he didn't do it like
[TS]
00:58:10
◼
►
other than you know Ron Johnson leaving
[TS]
00:58:12
◼
►
to go to jcpenney and being replaced and
[TS]
00:58:14
◼
►
I remember that happened before after he
[TS]
00:58:15
◼
►
came but like that's not his doing like
[TS]
00:58:17
◼
►
that Ron Johnson decided to leave and so
[TS]
00:58:19
◼
►
we had to replace him and stuff like
[TS]
00:58:20
◼
►
that so he did eventually have to make
[TS]
00:58:22
◼
►
decisions like that uh just like you
[TS]
00:58:28
◼
►
know being forced to to sort of taking
[TS]
00:58:30
◼
►
Crowes like okay Tim you can't just
[TS]
00:58:32
◼
►
coast on the projects that were in the
[TS]
00:58:34
◼
►
pipeline jobs there keep the exact same
[TS]
00:58:36
◼
►
executive team the exact same project
[TS]
00:58:37
◼
►
just go at some point you're gonna have
[TS]
00:58:38
◼
►
to start doing stuff uh and that's how
[TS]
00:58:41
◼
►
you know and we couldn't judged him cook
[TS]
00:58:43
◼
►
by what he did when he came in and
[TS]
00:58:45
◼
►
cleaned house because he didn't uh so
[TS]
00:58:47
◼
►
one of the first things that he did was
[TS]
00:58:48
◼
►
I think this was him I gotta look at
[TS]
00:58:50
◼
►
there's a January 31st 2012 I believe I
[TS]
00:58:55
◼
►
guess that was the others after Jobs was
[TS]
00:58:57
◼
►
gone right because he died in October
[TS]
00:58:59
◼
►
2011 right right yeah so one of cooks
[TS]
00:59:03
◼
►
first major decisions was I got to find
[TS]
00:59:05
◼
►
that guy to replace Ron Johnson and he
[TS]
00:59:07
◼
►
picked John Browett who ran Dixon's
[TS]
00:59:10
◼
►
which was apparently a UK chain I have
[TS]
00:59:13
◼
►
link in the show notes to this article
[TS]
00:59:15
◼
►
on our stock to go does dixons retail
[TS]
00:59:17
◼
►
CEO John brow decide to take over
[TS]
00:59:19
◼
►
rappers former retail chief blah blah
[TS]
00:59:21
◼
►
and that wasn't that higher was not
[TS]
00:59:27
◼
►
looked upon particularly finally like
[TS]
00:59:29
◼
►
right off the bat because it was like
[TS]
00:59:32
◼
►
this is nearest act ago story says he
[TS]
00:59:35
◼
►
may be a poor choice to succeed apples
[TS]
00:59:37
◼
►
former senior vice president ron johnson
[TS]
00:59:38
◼
►
if customer service clean stores and
[TS]
00:59:40
◼
►
great products are still priorities of
[TS]
00:59:41
◼
►
the companies and it's because Dixon's
[TS]
00:59:43
◼
►
the chain that he had previously you
[TS]
00:59:46
◼
►
know the food previous being charged up
[TS]
00:59:47
◼
►
does not have a good reputation
[TS]
00:59:49
◼
►
apparently in the UK and people who knew
[TS]
00:59:52
◼
►
Dixon's and new brauch said this is like
[TS]
00:59:55
◼
►
the opposite of what I think of when I
[TS]
00:59:57
◼
►
think of the apple store and this is the
[TS]
00:59:58
◼
►
guy you hired to be in charge with the
[TS]
01:00:00
◼
►
store now when these stories were coming
[TS]
01:00:02
◼
►
out uh I didn't lend much credence to
[TS]
01:00:05
◼
►
them again because lots of people like
[TS]
01:00:08
◼
►
just look at all the people who are
[TS]
01:00:09
◼
►
currently on the executive staff and
[TS]
01:00:10
◼
►
Apple the people who have done great
[TS]
01:00:11
◼
►
jobs they may have been associated with
[TS]
01:00:13
◼
►
crappy company or easier and in charge
[TS]
01:00:15
◼
►
of crappy companies in the past but I
[TS]
01:00:16
◼
►
was like well Apple gives you a chance
[TS]
01:00:17
◼
►
to do things differently like the rules
[TS]
01:00:19
◼
►
are different an apple you have more
[TS]
01:00:20
◼
►
freedom you actually have a good product
[TS]
01:00:22
◼
►
it's not like a bargain-basement a thin
[TS]
01:00:27
◼
►
margin retail business like things can
[TS]
01:00:29
◼
►
be different you know I don't remember
[TS]
01:00:30
◼
►
who ron jons come from compact or
[TS]
01:00:32
◼
►
something like whatever Ron Johnson did
[TS]
01:00:33
◼
►
before the apple store probably did not
[TS]
01:00:36
◼
►
succeed to level the apple store is so
[TS]
01:00:37
◼
►
if you saw Ron Johnson he's not going to
[TS]
01:00:39
◼
►
help you look what he's done in the past
[TS]
01:00:40
◼
►
just been all bunch of crappy retail
[TS]
01:00:41
◼
►
stores he's never gonna you know things
[TS]
01:00:43
◼
►
are different inside apples was it all
[TS]
01:00:45
◼
►
right I'm given this John Brown guide
[TS]
01:00:47
◼
►
chance let's just because his previous
[TS]
01:00:49
◼
►
chain of stores was the anti apple store
[TS]
01:00:51
◼
►
uh maybe the reason he wants to bail
[TS]
01:00:54
◼
►
he's like I'm tired of this dog-eat-dog
[TS]
01:00:55
◼
►
world and I want to do something better
[TS]
01:00:57
◼
►
but his start was not auspicious in
[TS]
01:01:00
◼
►
August so he's you know hired in January
[TS]
01:01:02
◼
►
in August they had this big blowup where
[TS]
01:01:05
◼
►
one of the first policies that he
[TS]
01:01:08
◼
►
implemented was to lower the staffing
[TS]
01:01:11
◼
►
levels to try to reduce the overhead of
[TS]
01:01:12
◼
►
the store because like all you got all
[TS]
01:01:14
◼
►
these employees and if we can reduce
[TS]
01:01:17
◼
►
headcount you can get more a profit out
[TS]
01:01:20
◼
►
of this some of the Chairman saying Ron
[TS]
01:01:22
◼
►
Johnson was uh was hired based on a
[TS]
01:01:24
◼
►
success at target but I would still say
[TS]
01:01:25
◼
►
target looks very different than an
[TS]
01:01:27
◼
►
apple store she's gonna do retail apples
[TS]
01:01:30
◼
►
retail so I was gonna be like target
[TS]
01:01:31
◼
►
yeah that's better than kmart but just
[TS]
01:01:32
◼
►
barely yeah anyway very different
[TS]
01:01:34
◼
►
environment Apple so when Brout came and
[TS]
01:01:37
◼
►
you know it seemed like a bean counter
[TS]
01:01:40
◼
►
kind of thing to do we can make more
[TS]
01:01:42
◼
►
profit from these stores that we just
[TS]
01:01:43
◼
►
reduce our headcount I think we can
[TS]
01:01:44
◼
►
still support the customs into this
[TS]
01:01:45
◼
►
headcount and that decision was not
[TS]
01:01:49
◼
►
popular among employees wearing anyone
[TS]
01:01:51
◼
►
among anybody media you me anyone yet
[TS]
01:01:55
◼
►
because the employees were like you're
[TS]
01:01:57
◼
►
cutting my hours or you're laying me off
[TS]
01:01:58
◼
►
worse right and the customers are like
[TS]
01:02:01
◼
►
every time I go into the apple store
[TS]
01:02:02
◼
►
it's hard enough for me to find someone
[TS]
01:02:04
◼
►
to help me and now you're gonna reduce
[TS]
01:02:06
◼
►
that thing I think this was well you
[TS]
01:02:09
◼
►
know it's like August is not right
[TS]
01:02:10
◼
►
before the holiday season but it's kind
[TS]
01:02:12
◼
►
of right before the holiday season
[TS]
01:02:13
◼
►
and these changes supposedly because he
[TS]
01:02:16
◼
►
he also implemented a twenty-five
[TS]
01:02:17
◼
►
percent pay raise and to support the pay
[TS]
01:02:20
◼
►
raise you know perry's i'm sure the
[TS]
01:02:21
◼
►
Apple employees loved you know we all
[TS]
01:02:23
◼
►
you know pipe pillows guys there that's
[TS]
01:02:24
◼
►
great but it's all to pay for that pay
[TS]
01:02:27
◼
►
raise I have to lay off a bunch of you
[TS]
01:02:28
◼
►
right and this was not popular and
[TS]
01:02:31
◼
►
people were angry about it an apple
[TS]
01:02:33
◼
►
reversed it so this story from August
[TS]
01:02:36
◼
►
sixteenth is new apple retail chief
[TS]
01:02:37
◼
►
makes quote mistake and firing staff
[TS]
01:02:39
◼
►
comma hires them back right and Apple is
[TS]
01:02:42
◼
►
reversing changes to the formerly used
[TS]
01:02:43
◼
►
to calculate staffing levels in its
[TS]
01:02:45
◼
►
retail stores an experiment using the
[TS]
01:02:46
◼
►
new formula it apparently led to wide
[TS]
01:02:48
◼
►
ranging layoffs and cuts and assign
[TS]
01:02:49
◼
►
hours however Apple's new retail chief
[TS]
01:02:52
◼
►
John brow to the company quote messed up
[TS]
01:02:54
◼
►
implementing the changes in the first
[TS]
01:02:55
◼
►
place right so here is your new hire
[TS]
01:02:57
◼
►
whose first major visible initiative is
[TS]
01:03:00
◼
►
wildly unpopular and immediately reverse
[TS]
01:03:04
◼
►
and then you then it's like I imagined
[TS]
01:03:06
◼
►
him having to go like someone chastising
[TS]
01:03:09
◼
►
him and now he has to make like a public
[TS]
01:03:11
◼
►
apology of saying that thing I totally
[TS]
01:03:12
◼
►
wanted to do that was a mistake and so
[TS]
01:03:14
◼
►
here's apple spokesperson Kristen huget
[TS]
01:03:17
◼
►
saying making these changes was a
[TS]
01:03:18
◼
►
mistake and the changes are being
[TS]
01:03:19
◼
►
reversed our employees are our most
[TS]
01:03:21
◼
►
important asset and blah blah blah you
[TS]
01:03:23
◼
►
know when a spokesperson has got to come
[TS]
01:03:25
◼
►
out and say that thing that we just
[TS]
01:03:26
◼
►
hired that he did were totally reversing
[TS]
01:03:28
◼
►
and we're just immediately publicly
[TS]
01:03:30
◼
►
admitting this is a mistake even it's
[TS]
01:03:31
◼
►
not like you know they people dog piled
[TS]
01:03:33
◼
►
an apple and force them to admit it was
[TS]
01:03:35
◼
►
a mistake they caught this one pretty
[TS]
01:03:37
◼
►
quickly so it's almost like John browz
[TS]
01:03:39
◼
►
off in his corner office doing his stuff
[TS]
01:03:41
◼
►
and Tim Cook it's windows and he says he
[TS]
01:03:42
◼
►
did what you know and the other
[TS]
01:03:44
◼
►
possibility is that Tim Cook was
[TS]
01:03:46
◼
►
pressuring John brow to say why don't
[TS]
01:03:48
◼
►
these store is more profitable you need
[TS]
01:03:50
◼
►
to make them more profitable and then
[TS]
01:03:52
◼
►
you know he was just acting doing what
[TS]
01:03:55
◼
►
he thought Tim Cook wanted to do and
[TS]
01:03:56
◼
►
then it ended up being a PR situation
[TS]
01:03:58
◼
►
again we don't know what's going on
[TS]
01:03:59
◼
►
inside the company but bottom line is
[TS]
01:04:00
◼
►
questionable higher we were all
[TS]
01:04:04
◼
►
suspicious about his first major move
[TS]
01:04:06
◼
►
immediately reversed these are not good
[TS]
01:04:10
◼
►
things and and this is like Tim Cook's
[TS]
01:04:12
◼
►
first major move at the corporate level
[TS]
01:04:15
◼
►
in terms of the executives so not like
[TS]
01:04:16
◼
►
I'm not looking good for Tim Cook's
[TS]
01:04:18
◼
►
track record so far this is a comment on
[TS]
01:04:21
◼
►
one of those stories from the cosh th
[TS]
01:04:24
◼
►
EKG on arstechnica promoted come
[TS]
01:04:26
◼
►
says as a former apple store specialist
[TS]
01:04:29
◼
►
I can't even imagine a word coming down
[TS]
01:04:30
◼
►
that they were going to cut the number
[TS]
01:04:31
◼
►
of people working our biggest complaints
[TS]
01:04:33
◼
►
were always long lines of I waited 20
[TS]
01:04:35
◼
►
minutes for someone to help me and
[TS]
01:04:36
◼
►
decided to leave like that's the
[TS]
01:04:37
◼
►
complaints that they get from people on
[TS]
01:04:38
◼
►
the apple store it's not that you know
[TS]
01:04:39
◼
►
you weren't helpful or your stores were
[TS]
01:04:42
◼
►
ugly and dirty or I couldn't find
[TS]
01:04:44
◼
►
anything it's that I couldn't get helped
[TS]
01:04:45
◼
►
so again cutting employees doesn't seem
[TS]
01:04:47
◼
►
like a good idea lots of I've seen lots
[TS]
01:04:51
◼
►
of stories and both sides this both that
[TS]
01:04:53
◼
►
John Brown did this on his own it was
[TS]
01:04:57
◼
►
reversed and also that this is something
[TS]
01:04:59
◼
►
that institutional bean counter Tim Cook
[TS]
01:05:02
◼
►
always wanted to do and Steve Jobs was
[TS]
01:05:04
◼
►
the one stopping him from applying his
[TS]
01:05:07
◼
►
bean-counting tendencies the stores say
[TS]
01:05:09
◼
►
no we can't you know don't treat it as
[TS]
01:05:11
◼
►
like a profit Center even though they
[TS]
01:05:13
◼
►
make tons of money don't try to squeeze
[TS]
01:05:14
◼
►
every ounce out of it it's not it's more
[TS]
01:05:16
◼
►
important for us to preserve the image
[TS]
01:05:18
◼
►
of our brand that it is to get every red
[TS]
01:05:19
◼
►
cent out of these stores so I don't know
[TS]
01:05:21
◼
►
what's going on internally but clearly
[TS]
01:05:22
◼
►
it was some sort of conflict and it
[TS]
01:05:23
◼
►
didn't work out uh there are more
[TS]
01:05:26
◼
►
stories about this even after the
[TS]
01:05:27
◼
►
reversal bits like now John bribe route
[TS]
01:05:30
◼
►
has been has been painted with the bean
[TS]
01:05:31
◼
►
counter brush and this another story
[TS]
01:05:33
◼
►
link in the show notes from August
[TS]
01:05:34
◼
►
twenty-eighth apple store may be
[TS]
01:05:35
◼
►
shifting from customer experience to
[TS]
01:05:37
◼
►
profit machine so even though they
[TS]
01:05:39
◼
►
reversed all the things you know this
[TS]
01:05:42
◼
►
wasn't this was an op-ed the idea was
[TS]
01:05:45
◼
►
that now Brown see see I told you about
[TS]
01:05:47
◼
►
this guy all he wants to do is like you
[TS]
01:05:49
◼
►
turn it into a crappy store that just
[TS]
01:05:51
◼
►
makes every amount of money can and
[TS]
01:05:52
◼
►
you're gonna be pushing like the
[TS]
01:05:53
◼
►
extended warranties in the undercoating
[TS]
01:05:54
◼
►
and the two-hundred-dollar monster
[TS]
01:05:56
◼
►
cables and it's just gonna be best buy
[TS]
01:05:57
◼
►
in like a month all right and everyone
[TS]
01:05:59
◼
►
who was saying that now had some
[TS]
01:06:01
◼
►
evidence of like look this is just what
[TS]
01:06:02
◼
►
this guy wants to do and so now he's out
[TS]
01:06:04
◼
►
now this executive be hired this one
[TS]
01:06:07
◼
►
change he'd made to the executive lineup
[TS]
01:06:09
◼
►
Tim Cook's guy who he brought in all our
[TS]
01:06:12
◼
►
worst fears turned out to be true
[TS]
01:06:13
◼
►
apparently as far as we can tell from
[TS]
01:06:15
◼
►
the outside and he's out fired and
[TS]
01:06:18
◼
►
you're gonna say why was he fired well
[TS]
01:06:19
◼
►
what has he done in his six months there
[TS]
01:06:21
◼
►
uh one thing that turned out terribly
[TS]
01:06:24
◼
►
and he had to immediately reverse so
[TS]
01:06:26
◼
►
he's gone now Mansfield here's another
[TS]
01:06:30
◼
►
thing that happened surrounding Tim
[TS]
01:06:33
◼
►
Cook's time and her when did Tim Cook
[TS]
01:06:35
◼
►
take over i forget i have mansfield
[TS]
01:06:37
◼
►
dates here but not in books but night
[TS]
01:06:38
◼
►
uh Mansell retired in June and then he
[TS]
01:06:42
◼
►
came back in August so right away that's
[TS]
01:06:43
◼
►
weird he retires they give the nice l
[TS]
01:06:46
◼
►
Bob Mansfield's retiring he wants to go
[TS]
01:06:47
◼
►
on to do other things obviously not
[TS]
01:06:49
◼
►
fired he's retiring you know young but
[TS]
01:06:53
◼
►
you know again multi millionaires from
[TS]
01:06:54
◼
►
retirement sure uh and then he's back in
[TS]
01:06:57
◼
►
August uh and and that's that's weird
[TS]
01:07:02
◼
►
because do we stitch is further ado we
[TS]
01:07:04
◼
►
see this with other corporations have
[TS]
01:07:06
◼
►
you done a cross-check have you done in
[TS]
01:07:07
◼
►
comparison with other companies to see
[TS]
01:07:09
◼
►
if they have this kind of shuffling as
[TS]
01:07:11
◼
►
much I mean usually with another company
[TS]
01:07:13
◼
►
like somebody leaves they're gone they
[TS]
01:07:14
◼
►
don't they don't get to come back well
[TS]
01:07:16
◼
►
if they leave that their own accord like
[TS]
01:07:17
◼
►
I bet this happens all the time in
[TS]
01:07:19
◼
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companies is just that every company
[TS]
01:07:20
◼
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isn't watched like uh like Apple is I
[TS]
01:07:24
◼
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mean maybe at the very highest level to
[TS]
01:07:25
◼
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think of the very highest levels of
[TS]
01:07:27
◼
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companies like I don't know like
[TS]
01:07:28
◼
►
Microsoft or IBM or whatever companies
[TS]
01:07:31
◼
►
that are similarly watch or Google hey
[TS]
01:07:34
◼
►
the traditional thing is like once you
[TS]
01:07:37
◼
►
get to a certain level in a corporation
[TS]
01:07:38
◼
►
you're nothing matters anymore like
[TS]
01:07:41
◼
►
almost nothing matters it your
[TS]
01:07:44
◼
►
performance your personality is pretty
[TS]
01:07:46
◼
►
much nothing you can do to ever get
[TS]
01:07:47
◼
►
fired because you're the one who
[TS]
01:07:49
◼
►
determines hiring and firing and to get
[TS]
01:07:50
◼
►
them at level in the corporation you
[TS]
01:07:51
◼
►
must have learned how to do internal
[TS]
01:07:53
◼
►
corporate politics to the point where
[TS]
01:07:54
◼
►
you have your own coalition of
[TS]
01:07:56
◼
►
supporters and your own little fiefdom
[TS]
01:07:57
◼
►
that you built for yourself and like
[TS]
01:07:59
◼
►
that's that's all the corporate malaise
[TS]
01:08:01
◼
►
that happens and that's why you don't
[TS]
01:08:03
◼
►
see stories like this but in good
[TS]
01:08:05
◼
►
companies that are more competitive at
[TS]
01:08:07
◼
►
the top levels occasionally you do see
[TS]
01:08:08
◼
►
defections like Marissa Meyer or mayor
[TS]
01:08:09
◼
►
or the stuff we see at Apple ah but a
[TS]
01:08:13
◼
►
retirement is usually like well you know
[TS]
01:08:16
◼
►
I never thought I'd be rich now I am and
[TS]
01:08:19
◼
►
I've been working really hard for a lot
[TS]
01:08:21
◼
►
of years and I want to go out and
[TS]
01:08:22
◼
►
another example at I get to a little bit
[TS]
01:08:23
◼
►
later is aa bhi toh maine Ian who came
[TS]
01:08:25
◼
►
from next and was in charge of their
[TS]
01:08:27
◼
►
software and stuff and he retired and he
[TS]
01:08:29
◼
►
just you know the same thing as it
[TS]
01:08:30
◼
►
looked exactly like Mansfield I work
[TS]
01:08:32
◼
►
really hard for a lot of years I've been
[TS]
01:08:34
◼
►
rewarded for that work because Apple has
[TS]
01:08:36
◼
►
been very successful now a
[TS]
01:08:37
◼
►
multimillionaire now I want to do
[TS]
01:08:39
◼
►
something else that's totally what
[TS]
01:08:40
◼
►
Mansfield look like but when he comes
[TS]
01:08:41
◼
►
back and August what that really means
[TS]
01:08:43
◼
►
is that it wasn't like a V where he
[TS]
01:08:45
◼
►
would legitimately wanted to do other
[TS]
01:08:46
◼
►
things he had some other reasons for
[TS]
01:08:48
◼
►
leaving and was able to be lured back
[TS]
01:08:51
◼
►
right right and you know at the time
[TS]
01:08:54
◼
►
were like that's weird what what could
[TS]
01:08:56
◼
►
you it was it just because he felt like
[TS]
01:08:58
◼
►
I wasn't getting paid enough like was
[TS]
01:08:59
◼
►
that that none of this speaks well to
[TS]
01:09:02
◼
►
Tim Cook uh it to his management because
[TS]
01:09:05
◼
►
if you have someone who is uh says
[TS]
01:09:08
◼
►
they're retiring but they really just
[TS]
01:09:09
◼
►
want to be paid more or something you
[TS]
01:09:10
◼
►
should address that before they retire
[TS]
01:09:12
◼
►
and it like and I have to think that
[TS]
01:09:13
◼
►
that's that's crazy anyway like it's not
[TS]
01:09:16
◼
►
like an actor where you're like oh the
[TS]
01:09:17
◼
►
star of this of this movie is getting 20
[TS]
01:09:19
◼
►
million but i'm only getting five we're
[TS]
01:09:21
◼
►
like the seinfeld thing where they all
[TS]
01:09:22
◼
►
wanted more money and jerry seinfeld was
[TS]
01:09:24
◼
►
getting more than the other stars and
[TS]
01:09:25
◼
►
any all sorts of like ego-driven
[TS]
01:09:27
◼
►
Starbase things but i feel like all of
[TS]
01:09:30
◼
►
these guys executives were being paid
[TS]
01:09:31
◼
►
very well had tons of stock options it
[TS]
01:09:34
◼
►
wasn't a money issue and so then you
[TS]
01:09:36
◼
►
left to wonder if it's just some sort of
[TS]
01:09:38
◼
►
personality conflict and how do you get
[TS]
01:09:39
◼
►
the guy to come back what have you done
[TS]
01:09:42
◼
►
to change things and it seemed like they
[TS]
01:09:44
◼
►
did nothing he leaves and rooney comes
[TS]
01:09:45
◼
►
back in August I'm like well nothing has
[TS]
01:09:47
◼
►
changed between june and august that we
[TS]
01:09:49
◼
►
can imagine you know we don't think it's
[TS]
01:09:51
◼
►
money they didn't like you know he
[TS]
01:09:55
◼
►
wanted a job that he could never got and
[TS]
01:09:56
◼
►
when he brought back he finally got that
[TS]
01:09:57
◼
►
job now they brought him back and he
[TS]
01:09:59
◼
►
seemed to have a less powerful position
[TS]
01:10:00
◼
►
than he had before he was like advisor
[TS]
01:10:01
◼
►
or whatever and he used to be in
[TS]
01:10:02
◼
►
chargeable hardware so it was mysterious
[TS]
01:10:04
◼
►
all right but in this same announcement
[TS]
01:10:08
◼
►
that forestall is out now Mansfield
[TS]
01:10:10
◼
►
suddenly has a new more powerful
[TS]
01:10:12
◼
►
position not forestall his old job but
[TS]
01:10:14
◼
►
different you know he's in charge of
[TS]
01:10:15
◼
►
technologies in charge of this this
[TS]
01:10:17
◼
►
other big thing uh so regardless of the
[TS]
01:10:20
◼
►
reasoning behind this is what I'm saying
[TS]
01:10:22
◼
►
we can try to talk about this without
[TS]
01:10:23
◼
►
actually knowing is it because Mansfield
[TS]
01:10:24
◼
►
hated forestall and he wouldn't come
[TS]
01:10:26
◼
►
back until he got a promise at Forrester
[TS]
01:10:27
◼
►
was going out and seems like hoodie who
[TS]
01:10:30
◼
►
knows but like independent of what the
[TS]
01:10:32
◼
►
reasoning is when something like this
[TS]
01:10:34
◼
►
happens it is a black mark on Tim Cook's
[TS]
01:10:38
◼
►
record like if you're keeping things in
[TS]
01:10:40
◼
►
order you should be the one deciding
[TS]
01:10:41
◼
►
who's hired and fired if someone leaves
[TS]
01:10:44
◼
►
you should make sure that their that
[TS]
01:10:46
◼
►
they're leaving for reasons that you
[TS]
01:10:48
◼
►
have no control over and they really do
[TS]
01:10:50
◼
►
just want to retire like all you know
[TS]
01:10:52
◼
►
this type of thing we're a really
[TS]
01:10:54
◼
►
important guy leaves and you get them to
[TS]
01:10:55
◼
►
come back and another guy goes like it's
[TS]
01:10:57
◼
►
just not it's just like good manage but
[TS]
01:10:59
◼
►
not just because of the optics of like
[TS]
01:11:01
◼
►
how it looks from the outside and
[TS]
01:11:02
◼
►
everything but just in terms of like
[TS]
01:11:03
◼
►
turmoil and like
[TS]
01:11:05
◼
►
you know that you want the company to be
[TS]
01:11:07
◼
►
steady and under good leadership and it
[TS]
01:11:09
◼
►
should be like positive changes and
[TS]
01:11:10
◼
►
accounting crew people who want to leave
[TS]
01:11:12
◼
►
and retire this is this is I think a
[TS]
01:11:15
◼
►
failure of Management no not a big one
[TS]
01:11:17
◼
►
but a small one like it's not this is
[TS]
01:11:18
◼
►
not a estar and Tim Cook's record the
[TS]
01:11:20
◼
►
fact that all that happened regardless
[TS]
01:11:21
◼
►
there's no there's no reason this could
[TS]
01:11:23
◼
►
have happened that you know gives you a
[TS]
01:11:24
◼
►
gold star so cook the record so far he
[TS]
01:11:27
◼
►
hired the wrong guy for retail and had
[TS]
01:11:29
◼
►
to fire him uh and he did not manage his
[TS]
01:11:34
◼
►
current crop of executives who he
[TS]
01:11:35
◼
►
apparently loves right well enough
[TS]
01:11:37
◼
►
because they you know they bailed on him
[TS]
01:11:40
◼
►
he had to pull him back in right so here
[TS]
01:11:44
◼
►
finally I think with this reshuffle
[TS]
01:11:47
◼
►
announcement is the beginning of the
[TS]
01:11:48
◼
►
real Tim Cook era because finally he has
[TS]
01:11:51
◼
►
done that thing going so you're saying
[TS]
01:11:53
◼
►
you're saying that that that's over that
[TS]
01:11:54
◼
►
the reshuffle that he has now created
[TS]
01:11:56
◼
►
the Apple that he wants you're saying
[TS]
01:11:58
◼
►
he's done now he's put the people in
[TS]
01:11:59
◼
►
place he's made things happen and and we
[TS]
01:12:02
◼
►
should not see any more of this not that
[TS]
01:12:04
◼
►
he's done this is like this is like the
[TS]
01:12:06
◼
►
beginning like you could imagine in a
[TS]
01:12:08
◼
►
more traditional scenario where your CEO
[TS]
01:12:10
◼
►
goes out because he's crappy the new CEO
[TS]
01:12:11
◼
►
comes in and like you know day one or
[TS]
01:12:14
◼
►
day ten or something impressed with
[TS]
01:12:15
◼
►
these slick comes like this Here I am
[TS]
01:12:16
◼
►
I'm coming in and I'm changing things
[TS]
01:12:19
◼
►
around here and the first change is
[TS]
01:12:20
◼
►
forced all your out Mansfield you're in
[TS]
01:12:22
◼
►
charge of this Brout you're gone uh-uh
[TS]
01:12:24
◼
►
you people have new responsibilities he
[TS]
01:12:27
◼
►
is starting the Tim Cook Aaron now not
[TS]
01:12:30
◼
►
that it's not going to be more changes
[TS]
01:12:31
◼
►
there will be but this is the first set
[TS]
01:12:33
◼
►
of them this marks the beginning of it
[TS]
01:12:35
◼
►
and so it's like the time between and
[TS]
01:12:36
◼
►
Steve Jobs left and now was him kind of
[TS]
01:12:39
◼
►
coasting trying not to screw things up
[TS]
01:12:42
◼
►
but really actually screwing things up a
[TS]
01:12:44
◼
►
little bit and now he's finally said all
[TS]
01:12:46
◼
►
right the time for me to just be like
[TS]
01:12:48
◼
►
continue doing don't mess things up that
[TS]
01:12:50
◼
►
time is over and it's time for me to do
[TS]
01:12:51
◼
►
stuff because things had by not doing
[TS]
01:12:53
◼
►
things I guess we all know by sort of
[TS]
01:12:56
◼
►
letting things slide and just trying to
[TS]
01:12:58
◼
►
you know stay the course things do screw
[TS]
01:13:00
◼
►
up bad things happen and so he's finally
[TS]
01:13:03
◼
►
taking the reins finally taking control
[TS]
01:13:04
◼
►
so what did you do to recover from his
[TS]
01:13:06
◼
►
bad record get rid of the bad retail guy
[TS]
01:13:08
◼
►
get that good Hardware a guy back give
[TS]
01:13:11
◼
►
him more power and you know get rid of
[TS]
01:13:14
◼
►
forest all for whatever reasons and take
[TS]
01:13:17
◼
►
the guys who are still there and
[TS]
01:13:18
◼
►
redistribute their
[TS]
01:13:19
◼
►
responsibilities give them more
[TS]
01:13:20
◼
►
responsibilities reward them and like
[TS]
01:13:21
◼
►
and this is the new team going forward
[TS]
01:13:23
◼
►
finally what we have here is the first
[TS]
01:13:25
◼
►
iteration of the Tim Cook team there are
[TS]
01:13:27
◼
►
many iterations the Steve Jobs team over
[TS]
01:13:28
◼
►
the years as well this is the first
[TS]
01:13:29
◼
►
iteration finally of the Tim Cook team
[TS]
01:13:32
◼
►
this is the beginning of the Tim Cook
[TS]
01:13:33
◼
►
era ah and everything between there I
[TS]
01:13:36
◼
►
would say it was mostly a mistake that
[TS]
01:13:40
◼
►
he waited this long especially given the
[TS]
01:13:42
◼
►
things that happened in between their
[TS]
01:13:43
◼
►
Maps Siri all the other things have you
[TS]
01:13:48
◼
►
know that the bad retail guy like it's
[TS]
01:13:51
◼
►
it you know Tim Cook has a lot of black
[TS]
01:13:54
◼
►
marks on his record but Tim Cook's
[TS]
01:13:55
◼
►
credit he has been fast to recover he
[TS]
01:13:59
◼
►
reversed that bad retail guys decision
[TS]
01:14:00
◼
►
and he gave him a little bit more chance
[TS]
01:14:02
◼
►
but he said no he's got to go like he
[TS]
01:14:03
◼
►
didn't dilly-dally he didn't try to keep
[TS]
01:14:05
◼
►
him around for long whatever the problem
[TS]
01:14:06
◼
►
was with Forrestal dude this is
[TS]
01:14:08
◼
►
definitely a definitive solution for it
[TS]
01:14:10
◼
►
you know right or wrong it forestall was
[TS]
01:14:12
◼
►
the right guy to keep and get rid of the
[TS]
01:14:13
◼
►
other guys or whatever but like this is
[TS]
01:14:15
◼
►
what he's made it's a very definitive
[TS]
01:14:16
◼
►
it's a cut-off point ah 300 last month
[TS]
01:14:20
◼
►
rival section about looking ahead to the
[TS]
01:14:23
◼
►
future oh it's almost sounds optimistic
[TS]
01:14:24
◼
►
coming from you sure shutterstock.com 20
[TS]
01:14:28
◼
►
million stock photos vectors
[TS]
01:14:30
◼
►
illustrations video clips John if you're
[TS]
01:14:33
◼
►
looking for an image for your website
[TS]
01:14:34
◼
►
blog print ad trade show swag or even
[TS]
01:14:37
◼
►
the iOS app that I know you're building
[TS]
01:14:39
◼
►
you can go to shutterstock they add
[TS]
01:14:41
◼
►
something like 10,000 new images every
[TS]
01:14:43
◼
►
day they work with independent
[TS]
01:14:45
◼
►
photographers illustrators designers to
[TS]
01:14:48
◼
►
make really really cool stuff right
[TS]
01:14:50
◼
►
there and when you go there you download
[TS]
01:14:53
◼
►
the image you get it in the full size
[TS]
01:14:55
◼
►
and the full HD size same thing with
[TS]
01:14:58
◼
►
their video same thing with all the
[TS]
01:14:59
◼
►
stuff that they do they don't nickel and
[TS]
01:15:00
◼
►
dime you mean obviously there are
[TS]
01:15:02
◼
►
company they want to make some money but
[TS]
01:15:04
◼
►
they're turning that money over to the
[TS]
01:15:05
◼
►
folks that do the design work as well
[TS]
01:15:07
◼
►
when you go there you know that you're
[TS]
01:15:09
◼
►
supporting that independent community of
[TS]
01:15:11
◼
►
freelancers and photographers and people
[TS]
01:15:13
◼
►
out there when you're when you're
[TS]
01:15:15
◼
►
cruising around the site you make a
[TS]
01:15:17
◼
►
lightbox you put the stuff that you want
[TS]
01:15:18
◼
►
into the lightbox they have an iPad app
[TS]
01:15:20
◼
►
for this by the way and when you pick
[TS]
01:15:23
◼
►
the things out that you like you want to
[TS]
01:15:25
◼
►
buy them you get thirty percent off you
[TS]
01:15:27
◼
►
use the code Dan sent me 11 this is the
[TS]
01:15:31
◼
►
eleventh month of the year
[TS]
01:15:32
◼
►
you'll get thirty percent off any of the
[TS]
01:15:34
◼
►
packages that you put together their
[TS]
01:15:36
◼
►
huge library vectors and infographic
[TS]
01:15:39
◼
►
templates you name it 24-hour support
[TS]
01:15:43
◼
►
during the week go to shutterstock.com
[TS]
01:15:45
◼
►
code is dan sent me 11 safe thirty
[TS]
01:15:49
◼
►
percent thanks very much to them for
[TS]
01:15:51
◼
►
making this show possible now it's time
[TS]
01:15:55
◼
►
for the optimism to the future I think
[TS]
01:15:58
◼
►
of you as an optimistic guy sure yeah I
[TS]
01:16:02
◼
►
do probably maybe so going forward I go
[TS]
01:16:09
◼
►
through each of the executives who
[TS]
01:16:10
◼
►
something happened with and see what
[TS]
01:16:12
◼
►
their what are they brought in the past
[TS]
01:16:14
◼
►
mocha they have coming card so four
[TS]
01:16:15
◼
►
stalls out what can we look at it you
[TS]
01:16:19
◼
►
know it his legacy what did he do at
[TS]
01:16:21
◼
►
Apple as far as we're able to determine
[TS]
01:16:23
◼
►
from the outside huh first thing is even
[TS]
01:16:27
◼
►
though it's not a confirmed report I've
[TS]
01:16:28
◼
►
seen it enough sources that I believe it
[TS]
01:16:31
◼
►
and I do know that when the iphone was
[TS]
01:16:34
◼
►
under development there were many
[TS]
01:16:38
◼
►
internal arguments as there always are
[TS]
01:16:39
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at any healthy company i think about
[TS]
01:16:41
◼
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what the operating system platform
[TS]
01:16:44
◼
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should be four apples phone thing that
[TS]
01:16:47
◼
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they were going to do and on one side
[TS]
01:16:50
◼
►
were people arguing that should be
[TS]
01:16:52
◼
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something other than what it was City
[TS]
01:16:55
◼
►
there should be linux-based or actually
[TS]
01:16:57
◼
►
based on the Pyxis operating system or
[TS]
01:16:59
◼
►
something like that I think Linux was a
[TS]
01:17:01
◼
►
major contender because hey that's you
[TS]
01:17:03
◼
►
know that seems logical and then there
[TS]
01:17:05
◼
►
was another entire camp saying our phone
[TS]
01:17:07
◼
►
operating system should be based on Mac
[TS]
01:17:09
◼
►
OS 10 and forestall reportedly was part
[TS]
01:17:12
◼
►
of the Mac os10 camp in fact a big part
[TS]
01:17:15
◼
►
of the Mac os10 camp and that argument
[TS]
01:17:17
◼
►
if you were to just go back in time and
[TS]
01:17:20
◼
►
look at that and we're like you're gonna
[TS]
01:17:21
◼
►
put mac OS 10 on a phone do you
[TS]
01:17:23
◼
►
understand like it barely runs like it's
[TS]
01:17:25
◼
►
dog slow on you know a g4 powermac and
[TS]
01:17:29
◼
►
you think that's gonna go on a phone
[TS]
01:17:31
◼
►
that you know has some little tiny wimpy
[TS]
01:17:33
◼
►
CPU in there like no ram are you crazy
[TS]
01:17:35
◼
►
like it seems like all right it's great
[TS]
01:17:37
◼
►
i know that you probably wanted to be
[TS]
01:17:39
◼
►
like oh we can use some of the same dev
[TS]
01:17:41
◼
►
tools and stuff but like it's come on
[TS]
01:17:42
◼
►
guys you can't Mac os10 barely runs
[TS]
01:17:44
◼
►
max and you want to put it on a phone
[TS]
01:17:45
◼
►
and yet that camp you know perhaps not
[TS]
01:17:49
◼
►
led by but certainly supported heavily
[TS]
01:17:51
◼
►
by Forrestal according to all accounts
[TS]
01:17:52
◼
►
won that argument inside Apple and
[TS]
01:17:54
◼
►
that's not it that's a hard thing to do
[TS]
01:17:56
◼
►
there may be many cases in the history
[TS]
01:17:57
◼
►
of Apple where the the thing they
[TS]
01:18:00
◼
►
decided to do seems a little crazy or
[TS]
01:18:02
◼
►
like really really difficult or you know
[TS]
01:18:05
◼
►
you've got your work cut out not the
[TS]
01:18:06
◼
►
safe choice and this was not the safe
[TS]
01:18:08
◼
►
choice and Forrestal was four and that
[TS]
01:18:09
◼
►
shows you know daring foresight and it
[TS]
01:18:12
◼
►
was the correct call like does anyone
[TS]
01:18:14
◼
►
think of if iOS was based on linux Apple
[TS]
01:18:16
◼
►
would be where it is today it was very
[TS]
01:18:19
◼
►
difficult to do very very difficult to
[TS]
01:18:21
◼
►
do what they did and the others a
[TS]
01:18:22
◼
►
tremendous amount of crazy compromises
[TS]
01:18:25
◼
►
in iOS one point 0 in the first iphone
[TS]
01:18:26
◼
►
right no no multitasking they couldn't
[TS]
01:18:30
◼
►
even do like the widget eyes apps based
[TS]
01:18:31
◼
►
on like you know HTML and JavaScript and
[TS]
01:18:34
◼
►
stuff because they were too slow
[TS]
01:18:35
◼
►
everything negative you know core
[TS]
01:18:37
◼
►
animation created layer kit created for
[TS]
01:18:39
◼
►
the phone to make things fast GPU
[TS]
01:18:41
◼
►
accelerated like it was an amazing
[TS]
01:18:42
◼
►
technical achievement it was a bold move
[TS]
01:18:44
◼
►
and Forrestal was associated that so
[TS]
01:18:46
◼
►
thumbs up on that right he was involved
[TS]
01:18:50
◼
►
with it eventually led the you know the
[TS]
01:18:52
◼
►
iOS platform for the years when iOS went
[TS]
01:18:55
◼
►
from zero to like you know a big gorilla
[TS]
01:18:58
◼
►
right in some respects things like this
[TS]
01:19:01
◼
►
are a little tiny bit right place right
[TS]
01:19:03
◼
►
time because say you were involved I
[TS]
01:19:08
◼
►
even just the mac OS 10 guys like the
[TS]
01:19:10
◼
►
guys who were in charge of the Mac of
[TS]
01:19:11
◼
►
Mac OS 10 during the same time that for
[TS]
01:19:13
◼
►
so was involved in iOS did they do a
[TS]
01:19:15
◼
►
worse job than for us awesome but
[TS]
01:19:17
◼
►
because the Mac didn't have like
[TS]
01:19:18
◼
►
phenomenal growth like I always did just
[TS]
01:19:20
◼
►
you know the mac is a PC operating
[TS]
01:19:21
◼
►
system that market is mature and it
[TS]
01:19:25
◼
►
doesn't just have just didn't have the
[TS]
01:19:26
◼
►
growth potential that iOS did or it was
[TS]
01:19:28
◼
►
harder to change because it was an
[TS]
01:19:29
◼
►
existing established market whereas hey
[TS]
01:19:31
◼
►
you know this was a smartphone OS it was
[TS]
01:19:33
◼
►
in a class of its own so in some
[TS]
01:19:35
◼
►
respects this is another thing that
[TS]
01:19:36
◼
►
happens in corporations the dude who
[TS]
01:19:39
◼
►
happens to be in charge of the one
[TS]
01:19:40
◼
►
project that probably would have been
[TS]
01:19:41
◼
►
probably would have succeeded anyway
[TS]
01:19:43
◼
►
like it was set up to succeed because it
[TS]
01:19:45
◼
►
was the right plan at the right time and
[TS]
01:19:46
◼
►
the right product and he just had to
[TS]
01:19:47
◼
►
competently executed he looks like a god
[TS]
01:19:51
◼
►
because it's like oh this he's the guy
[TS]
01:19:53
◼
►
in charge of iOS and iOS is the naf the
[TS]
01:19:55
◼
►
foundation of this company it prints
[TS]
01:19:56
◼
►
money like a
[TS]
01:19:57
◼
►
you know like the printing press is just
[TS]
01:19:59
◼
►
unbelievable we're just drowning in
[TS]
01:20:01
◼
►
profit and she's massively successful
[TS]
01:20:03
◼
►
great for forest all that not that he
[TS]
01:20:07
◼
►
doesn't deserve credit for this and I
[TS]
01:20:08
◼
►
just got through saying how he was such
[TS]
01:20:10
◼
►
a strong proponent of it being based on
[TS]
01:20:11
◼
►
Mac os10 which was the right decision
[TS]
01:20:13
◼
►
and a key decision but it is possible no
[TS]
01:20:16
◼
►
matter how awesome you are to end up
[TS]
01:20:19
◼
►
being elevated to a level that exceeds
[TS]
01:20:22
◼
►
you know that your actual merits and you
[TS]
01:20:25
◼
►
end up having maybe more power than you
[TS]
01:20:27
◼
►
should have simply because like he's the
[TS]
01:20:29
◼
►
guy he's the guy who's leading iOS and I
[TS]
01:20:31
◼
►
was like you know he can do no wrong
[TS]
01:20:32
◼
►
he's awesome and Steve Jobs himself has
[TS]
01:20:34
◼
►
that phenomenon a lot but so you know in
[TS]
01:20:37
◼
►
the eyes of your boss or whatever they
[TS]
01:20:38
◼
►
don't need to know the details what they
[TS]
01:20:39
◼
►
know is that you're the guy in charge of
[TS]
01:20:41
◼
►
iOS and iOS is awesome and it's making
[TS]
01:20:43
◼
►
tons of money right and it's hard to
[TS]
01:20:47
◼
►
know during the ascendancy of iOS how
[TS]
01:20:50
◼
►
many things that forestall do that were
[TS]
01:20:52
◼
►
positive or negative how many things was
[TS]
01:20:54
◼
►
he for that were good or against there
[TS]
01:20:55
◼
►
were bed and you know Steve Jobs himself
[TS]
01:20:57
◼
►
is a great example because it various
[TS]
01:20:58
◼
►
times in the ascendancy of the ipod of
[TS]
01:21:00
◼
►
the mac and so on so are Steve Jobs has
[TS]
01:21:02
◼
►
been on the wrong side of many decisions
[TS]
01:21:03
◼
►
and he would you know I don't want
[TS]
01:21:05
◼
►
itunes on Windows to being a great
[TS]
01:21:06
◼
►
example that was the wrong decision it
[TS]
01:21:08
◼
►
needs insisted on and stop the speed and
[TS]
01:21:10
◼
►
was a big baby about it and he was
[TS]
01:21:12
◼
►
eventually convinced by the rest of the
[TS]
01:21:13
◼
►
executive team this was the right thing
[TS]
01:21:14
◼
►
to do that's an example of good
[TS]
01:21:17
◼
►
leadership allowing yourself to be
[TS]
01:21:18
◼
►
convinced and not putting your foot down
[TS]
01:21:19
◼
►
but it's also an example of you making
[TS]
01:21:21
◼
►
the wrong move so I bet forestalls
[TS]
01:21:23
◼
►
stewardship of iOS was similar in that
[TS]
01:21:25
◼
►
maybe he was against a lot of things
[TS]
01:21:27
◼
►
that were good ideas like I don't know
[TS]
01:21:29
◼
►
where he felt that on the App Store
[TS]
01:21:30
◼
►
approval process and all of the various
[TS]
01:21:33
◼
►
compromises made there but maybe he was
[TS]
01:21:35
◼
►
on the wrong side of a lot of those but
[TS]
01:21:36
◼
►
whatever he ended up doing he was either
[TS]
01:21:38
◼
►
able to be convinced by people to make
[TS]
01:21:40
◼
►
the right moves or the things that he
[TS]
01:21:41
◼
►
did weren't bad enough so uh to to
[TS]
01:21:44
◼
►
really hurt it that much so it's hard to
[TS]
01:21:48
◼
►
assess his influence on iOS uh but you
[TS]
01:21:54
◼
►
know especially in the beginning but
[TS]
01:21:55
◼
►
towards the end because House of how
[TS]
01:21:58
◼
►
successful iOS was and because of how
[TS]
01:22:01
◼
►
much power he had acquired within the
[TS]
01:22:03
◼
►
company he was Steve Jobs guy jobs you
[TS]
01:22:06
◼
►
know the two of them by all accounts
[TS]
01:22:07
◼
►
were very close and he was in charge of
[TS]
01:22:10
◼
►
their most successful
[TS]
01:22:11
◼
►
line ever the most successful platform
[TS]
01:22:13
◼
►
ever and so it towards the end of a
[TS]
01:22:15
◼
►
forestalls ring you have to say that
[TS]
01:22:17
◼
►
everything that was going on in iOS you
[TS]
01:22:19
◼
►
know in the beginning you don't know how
[TS]
01:22:20
◼
►
much influence yeah but towards the end
[TS]
01:22:21
◼
►
it's like that would not have happened
[TS]
01:22:23
◼
►
to forestall didn't approve especially
[TS]
01:22:25
◼
►
after Jobs was gone because that was my
[TS]
01:22:26
◼
►
Jobs was around you're like no matter
[TS]
01:22:28
◼
►
what Apple does well the job is
[TS]
01:22:29
◼
►
initially forward against you do know
[TS]
01:22:31
◼
►
that if it was released he was okay with
[TS]
01:22:34
◼
►
it being released like nothing's getting
[TS]
01:22:36
◼
►
out of Apple that Steve Jobs thinks is
[TS]
01:22:38
◼
►
terrible and should never be released
[TS]
01:22:39
◼
►
because he was the guy and he was the
[TS]
01:22:40
◼
►
decider he was the guy in charge of
[TS]
01:22:41
◼
►
everything when Steve Jobs was gone the
[TS]
01:22:44
◼
►
decider for iOS was definitely for so
[TS]
01:22:46
◼
►
when Jobs was there it would be like
[TS]
01:22:48
◼
►
okay Forrestal could decide one thing
[TS]
01:22:49
◼
►
would have jobs said no then I wasn't
[TS]
01:22:50
◼
►
going to happen but it seemed like jobs
[TS]
01:22:52
◼
►
in forest all of the same mind about
[TS]
01:22:54
◼
►
what was going on there so towards the
[TS]
01:22:56
◼
►
end of his reign you can say okay now
[TS]
01:22:58
◼
►
everything that's happening in iOS I'm
[TS]
01:23:00
◼
►
going to lay that at the foot of forest
[TS]
01:23:01
◼
►
all because he was tremendously powerful
[TS]
01:23:02
◼
►
jobs is no longer there and so that's
[TS]
01:23:05
◼
►
got to be him right and examples of
[TS]
01:23:07
◼
►
things that happened when it was just
[TS]
01:23:11
◼
►
Forrestal or when I was at the end of
[TS]
01:23:12
◼
►
his reign and when it's most clear to us
[TS]
01:23:15
◼
►
on the outside that this had to have
[TS]
01:23:16
◼
►
been at least approved by Forrestal
[TS]
01:23:18
◼
►
because he was basically a dictator of
[TS]
01:23:20
◼
►
that whole section of this huge part of
[TS]
01:23:21
◼
►
Apple business are Siri maps and maybe
[TS]
01:23:25
◼
►
the crazy skeuomorphic and textured app
[TS]
01:23:29
◼
►
bonanza that happened on on iOS right
[TS]
01:23:32
◼
►
but certainly Syria maps those land
[TS]
01:23:35
◼
►
directly at the feet of forest all it's
[TS]
01:23:37
◼
►
hard for me to imagine that you know
[TS]
01:23:41
◼
►
like the book has to stop with him at
[TS]
01:23:43
◼
►
that point because he was so clearly in
[TS]
01:23:45
◼
►
charge jobs was gone I can't imagine Tim
[TS]
01:23:47
◼
►
Cook taking on the same role the jobs
[TS]
01:23:48
◼
►
did to come in and say oh I really want
[TS]
01:23:50
◼
►
to find my friends to be leather Tim
[TS]
01:23:52
◼
►
Cook is not doing that by all accounts
[TS]
01:23:54
◼
►
right so that was all on Forrestal and
[TS]
01:23:56
◼
►
all those things have parts of them that
[TS]
01:24:02
◼
►
were not you know up to Apple standard
[TS]
01:24:05
◼
►
Siri was released as beta that's apple
[TS]
01:24:08
◼
►
kind of admitting that's not really
[TS]
01:24:10
◼
►
quite ready to go or whatever but job
[TS]
01:24:12
◼
►
sauce eerie and thumbs up that but he
[TS]
01:24:14
◼
►
was like practically on his deathbed so
[TS]
01:24:15
◼
►
you can't know if he's like why but this
[TS]
01:24:17
◼
►
will be great or whatever or was he
[TS]
01:24:18
◼
►
thinking himself or if I was still well
[TS]
01:24:19
◼
►
and I was in charge I would say maybe
[TS]
01:24:21
◼
►
his leave Syria you know but he wasn't
[TS]
01:24:23
◼
►
in charge anymore so I'm
[TS]
01:24:24
◼
►
the story i think it was in the i
[TS]
01:24:25
◼
►
descend by or someplace else where they
[TS]
01:24:27
◼
►
were showing steve jobs in the hospital
[TS]
01:24:28
◼
►
serie I think it was actually forestall
[TS]
01:24:30
◼
►
showing it to him right but Siri you
[TS]
01:24:32
◼
►
know I've had my show where I talked
[TS]
01:24:34
◼
►
about Siri a little bit they Apple to
[TS]
01:24:38
◼
►
you know to its credit or detriment put
[TS]
01:24:41
◼
►
the full force of apples company behind
[TS]
01:24:42
◼
►
cereal the ads with Siri the celebrities
[TS]
01:24:44
◼
►
talking to or whatever the reality of it
[TS]
01:24:46
◼
►
was like not great and that was kind of
[TS]
01:24:48
◼
►
acknowledged by the beta thing maps
[TS]
01:24:50
◼
►
second rounding and we talked about this
[TS]
01:24:51
◼
►
in the past show Apple had to take over
[TS]
01:24:53
◼
►
maps it had to take the reins on that
[TS]
01:24:55
◼
►
but it also had to do a good job with it
[TS]
01:24:56
◼
►
and so they got most of that except for
[TS]
01:24:58
◼
►
the good job part maybe not so much
[TS]
01:25:00
◼
►
maybe it should have baked longer or
[TS]
01:25:01
◼
►
whatever that falls at forestalls feet
[TS]
01:25:05
◼
►
as well right and the skeuomorphic stuff
[TS]
01:25:07
◼
►
with the you know things looking like
[TS]
01:25:09
◼
►
leather or looking like knobs that you
[TS]
01:25:11
◼
►
have to turn stuff like that or just
[TS]
01:25:13
◼
►
everything being texture with linen
[TS]
01:25:15
◼
►
everywhere every report we seniors at
[TS]
01:25:17
◼
►
steve jobs like that and that forest all
[TS]
01:25:20
◼
►
liked to and once you know like iOS 6
[TS]
01:25:22
◼
►
the OS that i would say you know is the
[TS]
01:25:26
◼
►
moat has four stalls fingerprinted the
[TS]
01:25:28
◼
►
most certainly he had the most power to
[TS]
01:25:29
◼
►
influence that had a ton of that stuff
[TS]
01:25:31
◼
►
now mango was tended to I don't know
[TS]
01:25:33
◼
►
forestall properly didn't have any moves
[TS]
01:25:35
◼
►
over matter was ten i'm not sure but uh
[TS]
01:25:36
◼
►
that's why i say maybe for this year
[TS]
01:25:39
◼
►
more big stuff and there's tons of
[TS]
01:25:40
◼
►
stories about that like oh the whole
[TS]
01:25:41
◼
►
reason we have these ugly skeuomorphic
[TS]
01:25:43
◼
►
apps is because Forrestal was in charge
[TS]
01:25:45
◼
►
now that he's gone we won't have them
[TS]
01:25:46
◼
►
anymore I don't think that's clear so
[TS]
01:25:48
◼
►
that's why I give that one a maybe ah
[TS]
01:25:49
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but if you're looking for from the
[TS]
01:25:52
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outside any possible reason why
[TS]
01:25:54
◼
►
Forrestal should be out of the company
[TS]
01:25:57
◼
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just based on the visibility things we
[TS]
01:25:59
◼
►
can see we also have Siri performed in
[TS]
01:26:01
◼
►
what it did we all saw have maps
[TS]
01:26:02
◼
►
performing in what it did so those two
[TS]
01:26:04
◼
►
things combined with any possible
[TS]
01:26:06
◼
►
personality conflict person I like
[TS]
01:26:08
◼
►
complex alone aren't going to do it I
[TS]
01:26:09
◼
►
don't think map someone do it I don't
[TS]
01:26:11
◼
►
think Siri alone would do just a serious
[TS]
01:26:12
◼
►
combination of everything yeah Syria
[TS]
01:26:14
◼
►
plus maps plus any kind of personality
[TS]
01:26:16
◼
►
conflict in terms in whether he's right
[TS]
01:26:18
◼
►
or wrong with everyone else's the jerk
[TS]
01:26:20
◼
►
and Scott Forstall is not a jerk
[TS]
01:26:21
◼
►
regardless like those two actual
[TS]
01:26:24
◼
►
performance related things combined with
[TS]
01:26:27
◼
►
any kind of personality conflict no
[TS]
01:26:29
◼
►
matter who's right and who's wrong I
[TS]
01:26:30
◼
►
think that it adequately explains why
[TS]
01:26:34
◼
►
Forrestal is now out and it's kind of
[TS]
01:26:38
◼
►
said but on the other hand those two
[TS]
01:26:40
◼
►
things Syrian maps and I we all made fun
[TS]
01:26:42
◼
►
of the whole this would've never
[TS]
01:26:43
◼
►
happened to Steve Jobs was there you
[TS]
01:26:44
◼
►
know Steve Jobs had plenty of stinkers
[TS]
01:26:45
◼
►
too but uh and seemed guys really did
[TS]
01:26:48
◼
►
like Forrestal and it could be the Steve
[TS]
01:26:49
◼
►
Jobs would have given him more of a
[TS]
01:26:51
◼
►
chance sir we're taking the reins
[TS]
01:26:52
◼
►
tighter but jobs wasn't about firing
[TS]
01:26:54
◼
►
people either I papermaster who they
[TS]
01:26:55
◼
►
hired from or the IBM or something he
[TS]
01:26:57
◼
►
came and went pretty quickly to under
[TS]
01:26:59
◼
►
the jobs era so yeah I think this this
[TS]
01:27:03
◼
►
forestalls legacy is mostly positive but
[TS]
01:27:08
◼
►
kind of ended on not a great note for
[TS]
01:27:10
◼
►
Apple or for himself because it's the
[TS]
01:27:13
◼
►
last things you did or Syrian maps maybe
[TS]
01:27:17
◼
►
that's not such a great track record ah
[TS]
01:27:18
◼
►
so cook getting rid of him regardless of
[TS]
01:27:22
◼
►
any other reasons is probably a positive
[TS]
01:27:24
◼
►
because like it's like I gave you a
[TS]
01:27:26
◼
►
chance iOS platform has not been
[TS]
01:27:29
◼
►
floundering it's still doing very well
[TS]
01:27:30
◼
►
and everything but these two misses
[TS]
01:27:33
◼
►
combined with whatever the heck's going
[TS]
01:27:34
◼
►
on personality wise is a reason enough
[TS]
01:27:36
◼
►
that you gotta go next one up is Johnny
[TS]
01:27:39
◼
►
I've who we all know for many years it's
[TS]
01:27:43
◼
►
been out for a long time industrial
[TS]
01:27:44
◼
►
designer making up all the suit so it's
[TS]
01:27:46
◼
►
hardware now he's going to be in it
[TS]
01:27:48
◼
►
would be one guy in charge of human
[TS]
01:27:50
◼
►
interface where there was never well
[TS]
01:27:52
◼
►
there hadn't been in the jobs to error
[TS]
01:27:53
◼
►
really anyone who had this position
[TS]
01:27:54
◼
►
other than implicitly Steve Jobs himself
[TS]
01:27:57
◼
►
but now there's an actual guy whose
[TS]
01:27:59
◼
►
title is here in interface across the
[TS]
01:28:01
◼
►
entire company and this includes both
[TS]
01:28:03
◼
►
hardware and software cuz he's still in
[TS]
01:28:04
◼
►
charge of industrial design and now he's
[TS]
01:28:06
◼
►
also in charge of the human interface of
[TS]
01:28:07
◼
►
all their software right and the
[TS]
01:28:10
◼
►
question is now we all know what jony
[TS]
01:28:13
◼
►
ive's industrial design taste is because
[TS]
01:28:15
◼
►
we're all staring at and touching it and
[TS]
01:28:16
◼
►
using it all the time like his you know
[TS]
01:28:19
◼
►
we know what that aesthetic is what is
[TS]
01:28:21
◼
►
his software taste do we know anything
[TS]
01:28:23
◼
►
about what he how he feels about
[TS]
01:28:25
◼
►
software now supposedly Johnny I've had
[TS]
01:28:29
◼
►
a big influence on the design of the
[TS]
01:28:30
◼
►
very first version of iOS which if you
[TS]
01:28:32
◼
►
look at the very first version of iOS
[TS]
01:28:34
◼
►
looks very different than iOS 6 in terms
[TS]
01:28:36
◼
►
of just you know the look and feel of
[TS]
01:28:38
◼
►
the thing not the operation so much just
[TS]
01:28:40
◼
►
look in the field of the widgets and the
[TS]
01:28:41
◼
►
textures and the way the apps are
[TS]
01:28:44
◼
►
organized and the interfaces and stuff
[TS]
01:28:45
◼
►
like that and you know as I said by all
[TS]
01:28:49
◼
►
accounts for stall and jobs for
[TS]
01:28:51
◼
►
totally on the bandwagon of they like
[TS]
01:28:53
◼
►
like things look like they were made of
[TS]
01:28:54
◼
►
real material looks like it's made of
[TS]
01:28:55
◼
►
wood looks like it's made of some other
[TS]
01:28:57
◼
►
material and they also like
[TS]
01:28:58
◼
►
skeuomorphism where it's like well a
[TS]
01:29:00
◼
►
real mixer control panel has knobs on it
[TS]
01:29:03
◼
►
so when we put a mixer control panel and
[TS]
01:29:05
◼
►
GarageBand we're gonna have knobs you're
[TS]
01:29:07
◼
►
gonna turn them with your little fingers
[TS]
01:29:08
◼
►
because real ones did and even though
[TS]
01:29:10
◼
►
knobs you know that that whole thing and
[TS]
01:29:12
◼
►
or putting big leather flaps on stuff
[TS]
01:29:14
◼
►
and all sorts of stuff like that that
[TS]
01:29:16
◼
►
the leather with the stitching on it
[TS]
01:29:18
◼
►
because real calendar full pages need
[TS]
01:29:20
◼
►
some sort of stitching to all the pages
[TS]
01:29:21
◼
►
and the computer one doesn't but we're
[TS]
01:29:23
◼
►
going to put it there anyway the book
[TS]
01:29:24
◼
►
design for contacts a real contact book
[TS]
01:29:26
◼
►
is a book and you opened it and the
[TS]
01:29:27
◼
►
sides have to be the same size doesn't
[TS]
01:29:29
◼
►
need to be that way in the computer but
[TS]
01:29:30
◼
►
it was all of that supposedly is for
[TS]
01:29:38
◼
►
stolen jobs during and as we discussed
[TS]
01:29:40
◼
►
on the windows 8 show that I couldn't
[TS]
01:29:42
◼
►
find anywhere when I was looking at
[TS]
01:29:43
◼
►
windows 8 when it was introduced and you
[TS]
01:29:46
◼
►
spend enough time staring windows 8 and
[TS]
01:29:47
◼
►
playing with it this is before the
[TS]
01:29:49
◼
►
service just playing with on a desktop
[TS]
01:29:50
◼
►
and stuff like that or even just windows
[TS]
01:29:52
◼
►
phone 7 if you just spend enough time
[TS]
01:29:53
◼
►
with those and then you go back to your
[TS]
01:29:55
◼
►
iOS device it makes the iOS and this is
[TS]
01:29:59
◼
►
iOS 5 back then I think it makes the iOS
[TS]
01:30:01
◼
►
interface look dated it looks dated in
[TS]
01:30:04
◼
►
the way that if you were to boot up your
[TS]
01:30:06
◼
►
current mac into jaguar 10.2 or
[TS]
01:30:09
◼
►
something but the pinstripes would would
[TS]
01:30:10
◼
►
blind you'd be like oh my god how did I
[TS]
01:30:12
◼
►
even use this thing like some of that is
[TS]
01:30:16
◼
►
fashion but some of it is also that it's
[TS]
01:30:17
◼
►
like it's a treatment of its more heavy
[TS]
01:30:19
◼
►
weight it's more to made look like a
[TS]
01:30:21
◼
►
texture like a material and not not that
[TS]
01:30:24
◼
►
I'm saying that Windows 8 is like nicer
[TS]
01:30:26
◼
►
looking or better looking observe one of
[TS]
01:30:27
◼
►
the UI has problems as well but just in
[TS]
01:30:30
◼
►
terms of which one of these you know so
[TS]
01:30:32
◼
►
it's like an analogy current mac west
[TS]
01:30:34
◼
►
you know pinstripes is the current Mac
[TS]
01:30:36
◼
►
os10 as current iOS you know six is two
[TS]
01:30:40
◼
►
as to what it spending time with Windows
[TS]
01:30:44
◼
►
8 it makes windows it look like the
[TS]
01:30:47
◼
►
natural evolution of four get rid of
[TS]
01:30:49
◼
►
these details don't pile more on and
[TS]
01:30:50
◼
►
both the mac and iOS have been sort of
[TS]
01:30:52
◼
►
reversing that where they've been adding
[TS]
01:30:54
◼
►
more texture more materials more more
[TS]
01:30:57
◼
►
stuff that is sort of decorative and
[TS]
01:31:00
◼
►
maybe superfluous or whatever that
[TS]
01:31:04
◼
►
doesn't necessarily the
[TS]
01:31:04
◼
►
that one approach is better than the
[TS]
01:31:06
◼
►
other just that kind of feel that you
[TS]
01:31:07
◼
►
have when you look at like Oh remember
[TS]
01:31:09
◼
►
how Mac os10 used to be and you look at
[TS]
01:31:11
◼
►
that and it feels old that's the way iOS
[TS]
01:31:14
◼
►
feels to current iOS feels to me after
[TS]
01:31:16
◼
►
using Windows 8 so that that's it that's
[TS]
01:31:18
◼
►
you know that something that's in the
[TS]
01:31:20
◼
►
air at least at least I feel I may be
[TS]
01:31:22
◼
►
other people feel different way about
[TS]
01:31:23
◼
►
now jony ive is reportedly against that
[TS]
01:31:26
◼
►
that all those trends and here's his
[TS]
01:31:28
◼
►
interview from may 2012 that I put in
[TS]
01:31:30
◼
►
the Charlotte's the Gruber link to from
[TS]
01:31:32
◼
►
a telegraph in the UK and it's talking
[TS]
01:31:35
◼
►
about skeuomorphism and all stuff like
[TS]
01:31:37
◼
►
that and talk about this is when the
[TS]
01:31:39
◼
►
calendar app had a leather on and stuff
[TS]
01:31:41
◼
►
like that and the interviewer says when
[TS]
01:31:43
◼
►
I mentioned the fake stitching I've
[TS]
01:31:45
◼
►
offers a wince but it's a gesture of
[TS]
01:31:47
◼
►
sympathy rather than a suggestion that
[TS]
01:31:48
◼
►
he just like such things at least that's
[TS]
01:31:50
◼
►
how I read it so the author of his
[TS]
01:31:52
◼
►
articles trying to be charitable and
[TS]
01:31:53
◼
►
saying that I've winces when he mentions
[TS]
01:31:55
◼
►
the leather on the calendar I think it's
[TS]
01:31:56
◼
►
a pretty clear indication that Johnny I
[TS]
01:31:57
◼
►
was not in favor of putting the leather
[TS]
01:32:00
◼
►
and the stitching on the count right but
[TS]
01:32:02
◼
►
he's trying to sell well it's nothing
[TS]
01:32:03
◼
►
doesn't like it it's just that it's not
[TS]
01:32:04
◼
►
simple and so here's the video continues
[TS]
01:32:08
◼
►
that I've refuses to be drawn on the
[TS]
01:32:10
◼
►
matter offering a diplomatic reply and
[TS]
01:32:12
◼
►
this is a quote from I've my focus is
[TS]
01:32:14
◼
►
very much working with other teams on
[TS]
01:32:16
◼
►
products and ideas been developing
[TS]
01:32:17
◼
►
hardware so that's our focus and that's
[TS]
01:32:18
◼
►
our responsibility in terms of those
[TS]
01:32:20
◼
►
elements that you're talking about I'm
[TS]
01:32:21
◼
►
not really connected to that and when
[TS]
01:32:23
◼
►
Gruber posted this exact excerpt on his
[TS]
01:32:25
◼
►
forestall outpost which has the correct
[TS]
01:32:28
◼
►
URL forestall underscore out as Gruber
[TS]
01:32:31
◼
►
says he's connected now is connected now
[TS]
01:32:33
◼
►
well it used to be like oh I'm not
[TS]
01:32:35
◼
►
really connected to the software well
[TS]
01:32:36
◼
►
now you're in charge of the software so
[TS]
01:32:38
◼
►
presumably it's hard to imagine that the
[TS]
01:32:41
◼
►
level of real-world materials
[TS]
01:32:43
◼
►
heavyweight user interface comforting
[TS]
01:32:47
◼
►
decorative things that remind us of
[TS]
01:32:49
◼
►
physical objects that's got to go down
[TS]
01:32:50
◼
►
now it's just got out because if he's
[TS]
01:32:52
◼
►
wincing at like when we just put leather
[TS]
01:32:54
◼
►
on the calendar surely he's not in favor
[TS]
01:32:55
◼
►
of those damn reel-to-reel things
[TS]
01:32:58
◼
►
turning in the podcast app right like
[TS]
01:33:00
◼
►
that is just way over the edge now it
[TS]
01:33:03
◼
►
doesn't mean that you know sudden garage
[TS]
01:33:05
◼
►
bands not gonna have a little fake piano
[TS]
01:33:06
◼
►
on it of course it's going to like this
[TS]
01:33:07
◼
►
appropriate points for these things you
[TS]
01:33:09
◼
►
wanted to have a gorgeous looking fake
[TS]
01:33:10
◼
►
piano or the little the fake drums and
[TS]
01:33:12
◼
►
stuff like that but maybe not for the
[TS]
01:33:14
◼
►
podcast app with a reel-to-reel like
[TS]
01:33:16
◼
►
that is probably over the line and I
[TS]
01:33:17
◼
►
to imagine that the amount of this stuff
[TS]
01:33:20
◼
►
we see and it is two categories of stuff
[TS]
01:33:22
◼
►
it's not just all skeuomorphic the
[TS]
01:33:24
◼
►
skeuomorphism making little virtual
[TS]
01:33:25
◼
►
knobs and stuff and then there's making
[TS]
01:33:28
◼
►
things look like they're made it real
[TS]
01:33:29
◼
►
materials and textured looks and stuff
[TS]
01:33:31
◼
►
like that and that's more of an
[TS]
01:33:31
◼
►
aesthetic thing both of those seem like
[TS]
01:33:34
◼
►
they have to go down with I've and most
[TS]
01:33:36
◼
►
people are happy about that because they
[TS]
01:33:38
◼
►
feel like it's gone too far in the other
[TS]
01:33:39
◼
►
direction I possible dangers with I've
[TS]
01:33:42
◼
►
taking over here judging by his hardware
[TS]
01:33:45
◼
►
I've has a little bit of a tendency to
[TS]
01:33:47
◼
►
make things a bit simpler and cleaner
[TS]
01:33:49
◼
►
than they should be like he you know
[TS]
01:33:53
◼
►
he's enamored with beautiful simple
[TS]
01:33:55
◼
►
elegant designs but at some point you
[TS]
01:33:56
◼
►
also have to use the thing he's always
[TS]
01:33:57
◼
►
trying to balance that to make it usable
[TS]
01:33:59
◼
►
but also beautiful and simple and
[TS]
01:34:01
◼
►
sometimes he goes the wrong way hockey
[TS]
01:34:02
◼
►
puck mouse I'm not sure if he was for or
[TS]
01:34:06
◼
►
against that but he was he was an
[TS]
01:34:08
◼
►
industrial designer an apple when that
[TS]
01:34:09
◼
►
happen Steve Jobs sure loved it maybe he
[TS]
01:34:12
◼
►
told Steve Jobs this little circle mouse
[TS]
01:34:13
◼
►
was just a little concept drawing but
[TS]
01:34:15
◼
►
you can't ship this thing Steve we don't
[TS]
01:34:16
◼
►
know what was going on but the but you
[TS]
01:34:19
◼
►
know you have to assign the hockey puck
[TS]
01:34:20
◼
►
mouse of somebody and he was the
[TS]
01:34:21
◼
►
industrial designer at that point and he
[TS]
01:34:23
◼
►
was behind the imac and all that other
[TS]
01:34:24
◼
►
stuff and they shipped a circular mouse
[TS]
01:34:26
◼
►
it was hard to tell which way was up it
[TS]
01:34:27
◼
►
looked beautiful nice and symmetrical
[TS]
01:34:30
◼
►
and even and you know look it's a
[TS]
01:34:31
◼
►
beautiful circle but horribly key is you
[TS]
01:34:33
◼
►
know they can't be served as you can't
[TS]
01:34:35
◼
►
tell which way is up and you got a feel
[TS]
01:34:36
◼
►
for the cord with your fingers and they
[TS]
01:34:38
◼
►
put a little dent on it and now you're
[TS]
01:34:39
◼
►
caught that must have pained him so much
[TS]
01:34:40
◼
►
like the whole point of the circular
[TS]
01:34:41
◼
►
mounted have a beautiful uniform
[TS]
01:34:43
◼
►
symmetrical thing and you're gonna put a
[TS]
01:34:45
◼
►
divot in my design because people can't
[TS]
01:34:47
◼
►
find the front of it like that must have
[TS]
01:34:49
◼
►
killed him oh also the ports on the
[TS]
01:34:52
◼
►
underside of the cube the ports in the
[TS]
01:34:53
◼
►
back of the imac in the montour it's
[TS]
01:34:55
◼
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like well you don't want all these
[TS]
01:34:56
◼
►
things to be visible somewhere we want
[TS]
01:34:57
◼
►
the ports to be in the back so you can
[TS]
01:34:59
◼
►
route all the cables through our little
[TS]
01:35:00
◼
►
hole on the stand on the imac in it but
[TS]
01:35:02
◼
►
if you're constantly plugging and
[TS]
01:35:03
◼
►
plugging stuff any pc vendor would have
[TS]
01:35:05
◼
►
put at least one port facing forward or
[TS]
01:35:06
◼
►
one port on the side for practical
[TS]
01:35:08
◼
►
reasons and I've comes down on the other
[TS]
01:35:10
◼
►
side of it's not elegant it's not
[TS]
01:35:11
◼
►
beautiful it's ugly to have those things
[TS]
01:35:13
◼
►
visible I want them all on the back or
[TS]
01:35:15
◼
►
on the cube I want them all on the
[TS]
01:35:17
◼
►
underside even if it's more difficult to
[TS]
01:35:18
◼
►
like reach around the back your computer
[TS]
01:35:20
◼
►
and feel where the things are and stick
[TS]
01:35:22
◼
►
them in there so he does tend to on the
[TS]
01:35:27
◼
►
hardware side anyway go a little bit too
[TS]
01:35:29
◼
►
far in the direction of elegance and
[TS]
01:35:30
◼
►
simplicity
[TS]
01:35:31
◼
►
without perhaps as much thought towards
[TS]
01:35:34
◼
►
how you're actually gonna use this thing
[TS]
01:35:35
◼
►
like if you think about things that are
[TS]
01:35:37
◼
►
done the opposite way like oxxo was a
[TS]
01:35:39
◼
►
good example especially in the past now
[TS]
01:35:40
◼
►
maybe they're losing the plot a little
[TS]
01:35:42
◼
►
bit but back in the day oxxo made
[TS]
01:35:45
◼
►
products for people with arthritis if
[TS]
01:35:46
◼
►
you have difficulty you know opening a
[TS]
01:35:49
◼
►
can with a can opener are using some of
[TS]
01:35:51
◼
►
the tool we're gonna make tools that are
[TS]
01:35:52
◼
►
specially designed for people who have
[TS]
01:35:53
◼
►
you know disabilities with their hands
[TS]
01:35:55
◼
►
and those things things that are made to
[TS]
01:35:59
◼
►
be you know all we care about is can you
[TS]
01:36:01
◼
►
use this thing with the least amount of
[TS]
01:36:03
◼
►
effort with the most mechanical
[TS]
01:36:04
◼
►
efficiency with you know without it
[TS]
01:36:06
◼
►
being slippery without requiring fine
[TS]
01:36:08
◼
►
motor skills without require a lot of
[TS]
01:36:09
◼
►
strength those things are ugly is sin
[TS]
01:36:11
◼
►
like they're not beautiful looking as we
[TS]
01:36:13
◼
►
said on the game controller episode you
[TS]
01:36:15
◼
►
know the negative space created by a
[TS]
01:36:17
◼
►
gripping or poking or whatever hand is
[TS]
01:36:19
◼
►
ugly it's not it's not attractive but if
[TS]
01:36:23
◼
►
all you care about is ergonomics you end
[TS]
01:36:25
◼
►
up with things that are great to use
[TS]
01:36:26
◼
►
like the old ox 0 stuff but do not look
[TS]
01:36:28
◼
►
elegant at all are not nice looking our
[TS]
01:36:30
◼
►
awkward strange really weird but that's
[TS]
01:36:33
◼
►
not what you're focusing on uh I've
[TS]
01:36:36
◼
►
stuff has not been like that I've stuff
[TS]
01:36:38
◼
►
is not like ox oh it's been more like
[TS]
01:36:40
◼
►
you know the monolith in 2010 you know
[TS]
01:36:43
◼
►
all these designs are just remove
[TS]
01:36:44
◼
►
everything already tails are gone also I
[TS]
01:36:47
◼
►
guess make it so that you know it you
[TS]
01:36:49
◼
►
could hold it in your hand or whatever
[TS]
01:36:50
◼
►
but if there's a line there's a balance
[TS]
01:36:53
◼
►
between those two ends of the spectrum
[TS]
01:36:54
◼
►
he has been way over on the visual
[TS]
01:36:57
◼
►
simplicity and physical simplicity is
[TS]
01:37:00
◼
►
more important than ergonomics does that
[TS]
01:37:02
◼
►
have an analog in the soccer world maybe
[TS]
01:37:05
◼
►
there's a lot of reading the tea leaves
[TS]
01:37:07
◼
►
about this I've seen on Twitter and on
[TS]
01:37:09
◼
►
app.net in the past few days one of them
[TS]
01:37:11
◼
►
is a people bring up hives wardrobe that
[TS]
01:37:13
◼
►
apparently the clothing designer that he
[TS]
01:37:15
◼
►
likes doesn't necessarily reflect Jesus
[TS]
01:37:17
◼
►
g-star I don't know what that is do you
[TS]
01:37:19
◼
►
know what that is that is the clothing
[TS]
01:37:21
◼
►
manufacturer now I don't know that he
[TS]
01:37:24
◼
►
likes the clothing manufacturer I know
[TS]
01:37:26
◼
►
that he wears the g star t-shirts I'm
[TS]
01:37:28
◼
►
I'm I'm not saying that he doesn't like
[TS]
01:37:30
◼
►
the clothing manufacturer I'm just
[TS]
01:37:32
◼
►
saying that he's always picture he
[TS]
01:37:34
◼
►
always wears the same g-star t-shirt in
[TS]
01:37:38
◼
►
a variety of different neutral colors
[TS]
01:37:40
◼
►
and his famously pointed out that if you
[TS]
01:37:44
◼
►
go to the Apple
[TS]
01:37:45
◼
►
well you know page the appeal executive
[TS]
01:37:48
◼
►
committee or the you know like their
[TS]
01:37:50
◼
►
page that has all the executive people
[TS]
01:37:53
◼
►
on it that he is the only one there who
[TS]
01:37:55
◼
►
is wearing I he may be the only one in a
[TS]
01:37:58
◼
►
t-shirt but he's the only one who's
[TS]
01:37:59
◼
►
clothing has a logo on it and is the g
[TS]
01:38:01
◼
►
star logo just above the cuff of his
[TS]
01:38:05
◼
►
sleeve a short sleeve shirt and I don't
[TS]
01:38:09
◼
►
I don't know if the other garments that
[TS]
01:38:13
◼
►
he wears are also g-star or if it's just
[TS]
01:38:15
◼
►
the t-shirt that's g-star and you know
[TS]
01:38:18
◼
►
like I've got a shirt on from banana
[TS]
01:38:21
◼
►
republic that doesn't mean that I like
[TS]
01:38:23
◼
►
banana republic or that I don't like
[TS]
01:38:24
◼
►
banana republic or that all my t-shirts
[TS]
01:38:26
◼
►
are color clothing and from there it
[TS]
01:38:29
◼
►
just means I'm wearing a banana republic
[TS]
01:38:31
◼
►
shirt today and I think that's probably
[TS]
01:38:33
◼
►
people people seem to think that he
[TS]
01:38:36
◼
►
likes the manufacturer for some reason I
[TS]
01:38:38
◼
►
don't know why this is well regardless
[TS]
01:38:41
◼
►
of the clothing manufacturer and I know
[TS]
01:38:42
◼
►
nothing about building your friend she
[TS]
01:38:44
◼
►
start really previously established jisa
[TS]
01:38:46
◼
►
his physical outward appearance
[TS]
01:38:49
◼
►
especially post head shaving as
[TS]
01:38:51
◼
►
reflected as men osha's get rid of
[TS]
01:38:55
◼
►
everything extra it has matched his
[TS]
01:38:57
◼
►
devices like yeah Johnny I of the
[TS]
01:38:59
◼
►
physical manifestation that we know from
[TS]
01:39:01
◼
►
like a little you know videos and stuff
[TS]
01:39:02
◼
►
is like simple clean not a lot of
[TS]
01:39:06
◼
►
ornamentation you don't need the hair
[TS]
01:39:08
◼
►
anymore just we started from the
[TS]
01:39:10
◼
►
beginning and rethought the head we said
[TS]
01:39:12
◼
►
what is this do we need hair no we don't
[TS]
01:39:16
◼
►
need it like so that lends itself to the
[TS]
01:39:19
◼
►
idea that that his tastes and hardware
[TS]
01:39:22
◼
►
transferred to other realms now someone
[TS]
01:39:24
◼
►
I think it was Nevin Mergen put a link
[TS]
01:39:26
◼
►
into what is supposedly I of Johnny odds
[TS]
01:39:28
◼
►
car apparently he bought drives a
[TS]
01:39:30
◼
►
bentley brooklands now first of all he's
[TS]
01:39:32
◼
►
driving a Bentley because I'm assuming
[TS]
01:39:34
◼
►
because he was born in the UK because if
[TS]
01:39:35
◼
►
you're just picking cars based on the
[TS]
01:39:37
◼
►
quality of the cars from an automotive
[TS]
01:39:38
◼
►
perspective Bentley's are beautifully
[TS]
01:39:40
◼
►
built but not really you know about
[TS]
01:39:42
◼
►
handling or performance or modern
[TS]
01:39:44
◼
►
anything really ah and I put a link to
[TS]
01:39:48
◼
►
this post in the show note that has a
[TS]
01:39:49
◼
►
shot of the Interior and the interior of
[TS]
01:39:51
◼
►
a Bentley does not look like an imac it
[TS]
01:39:53
◼
►
does not look like jony ive's wardrobe
[TS]
01:39:55
◼
►
it is filled with chrome and leather and
[TS]
01:39:57
◼
►
it looks it looks more like an
[TS]
01:39:59
◼
►
ios6 application looks like find my
[TS]
01:40:00
◼
►
friends right and that that's you know
[TS]
01:40:02
◼
►
it is that is counter to jony ive's
[TS]
01:40:05
◼
►
hardware taste and apparently his
[TS]
01:40:06
◼
►
wardrobe taste but he's chosen this car
[TS]
01:40:09
◼
►
and apparently he likes this car and I
[TS]
01:40:11
◼
►
point this out just to to highlight the
[TS]
01:40:13
◼
►
idea that it's not safe to assume that a
[TS]
01:40:16
◼
►
person's taste in one area extends to
[TS]
01:40:18
◼
►
all other areas of his life and example
[TS]
01:40:20
◼
►
the spring to mind for me is we all know
[TS]
01:40:22
◼
►
somebody who's like a crazy Stanley
[TS]
01:40:25
◼
►
Kubrick superfan and not specifically
[TS]
01:40:26
◼
►
talking about Gruber but it's any better
[TS]
01:40:28
◼
►
we all know someone who's like into
[TS]
01:40:28
◼
►
Stanley Kubrick but Stanley Kubrick
[TS]
01:40:31
◼
►
superfans don't all have meticulously
[TS]
01:40:33
◼
►
arranged houses with spare furniture
[TS]
01:40:36
◼
►
arrangements and vast expanses of clean
[TS]
01:40:38
◼
►
white walls it is entirely normal for
[TS]
01:40:41
◼
►
you to be a huge fan of apple devices or
[TS]
01:40:43
◼
►
Stanley Kubrick or anything else with a
[TS]
01:40:45
◼
►
very particular aesthetic and till when
[TS]
01:40:47
◼
►
you live your life to just have dirty
[TS]
01:40:49
◼
►
laundry everywhere and your house is a
[TS]
01:40:51
◼
►
mess or maybe you're even a hoarder who
[TS]
01:40:52
◼
►
knows like there it doesn't just figure
[TS]
01:40:54
◼
►
you have taste in one area doesn't mean
[TS]
01:40:55
◼
►
it transfers the area so that's why I
[TS]
01:40:57
◼
►
want to warn against looking at Johnny
[TS]
01:40:59
◼
►
ABS wardrobe and how he does hardware
[TS]
01:41:01
◼
►
and stuff like that and saying therefore
[TS]
01:41:04
◼
►
his software is going to look like his
[TS]
01:41:05
◼
►
Hardware because I know there are plenty
[TS]
01:41:07
◼
►
of places in my life where I have a
[TS]
01:41:08
◼
►
particular taste and that does not
[TS]
01:41:10
◼
►
transfer at all to other parts of my
[TS]
01:41:12
◼
►
life like you know I don't cook like I
[TS]
01:41:14
◼
►
program I don't program like I keep
[TS]
01:41:16
◼
►
house like it's just people very good at
[TS]
01:41:18
◼
►
compartmentalizing things and yeah
[TS]
01:41:19
◼
►
hardware and software might seem like
[TS]
01:41:20
◼
►
they're related but I think you know it
[TS]
01:41:23
◼
►
I think there Johnny I was much more of
[TS]
01:41:26
◼
►
a wild card in the software around the
[TS]
01:41:27
◼
►
only thing that gives me reassurances if
[TS]
01:41:30
◼
►
the story about him having a big
[TS]
01:41:31
◼
►
influence of the original iOS version of
[TS]
01:41:33
◼
►
iOS is true then that gives us Dean ok
[TS]
01:41:35
◼
►
now we know a little bit about of
[TS]
01:41:36
◼
►
software taste and i and i like it i
[TS]
01:41:37
◼
►
think most people would like it so in
[TS]
01:41:40
◼
►
the end i think i've taken over for a
[TS]
01:41:42
◼
►
human interface I think we'll see less
[TS]
01:41:46
◼
►
of the textured and the skeuomorphic
[TS]
01:41:48
◼
►
stuff and I am cautiously optimistic
[TS]
01:41:51
◼
►
about it but I think there is definitely
[TS]
01:41:53
◼
►
someone certain to there and everyone's
[TS]
01:41:56
◼
►
talk about how soon will we see
[TS]
01:41:57
◼
►
something that reflects these tastes I
[TS]
01:41:58
◼
►
don't know I mean there's certainly
[TS]
01:42:00
◼
►
thinks he can do short term that are
[TS]
01:42:01
◼
►
fast but like certainly by like 10 9
[TS]
01:42:05
◼
►
maybe maybe 10 9 Joe that certainly
[TS]
01:42:08
◼
►
about iOS 7 I feel like iOS 7 comes out
[TS]
01:42:11
◼
►
that should have jony ive's fingerprint
[TS]
01:42:14
◼
►
on on the UI not just the look of it but
[TS]
01:42:16
◼
►
how it works and you know whether he's
[TS]
01:42:18
◼
►
move settings around and change the UI's
[TS]
01:42:20
◼
►
of the application and stuff like that
[TS]
01:42:21
◼
►
then we'll know what we should be
[TS]
01:42:24
◼
►
complaining about with him maybe I'll
[TS]
01:42:25
◼
►
make things too simple and remove a
[TS]
01:42:26
◼
►
bunch of options because he didn't think
[TS]
01:42:27
◼
►
they were necessary and people will be
[TS]
01:42:29
◼
►
angry or maybe he'll just look I make
[TS]
01:42:30
◼
►
everything look much nicer I don't so
[TS]
01:42:33
◼
►
cautiously optimistic on him Eddy Cue
[TS]
01:42:35
◼
►
he's taking over Syrian maps so he gets
[TS]
01:42:39
◼
►
that like you know since far stall
[TS]
01:42:41
◼
►
exploded and the pieces get distributed
[TS]
01:42:43
◼
►
so the piece about user interface I've
[TS]
01:42:46
◼
►
gets that the Syrian maps thing Eddy Cue
[TS]
01:42:48
◼
►
takes over that and he's kind of the
[TS]
01:42:49
◼
►
fixer it seems like for antman as a
[TS]
01:42:51
◼
►
server side component he took over from
[TS]
01:42:52
◼
►
mobileme I believe in the past and that
[TS]
01:42:56
◼
►
was just such a cluster and like you
[TS]
01:42:58
◼
►
would think I'll man you don't want to
[TS]
01:42:59
◼
►
be that executive like this is a big
[TS]
01:43:01
◼
►
mess and jobs is angry and he comes all
[TS]
01:43:02
◼
►
right you take over and you fix that and
[TS]
01:43:03
◼
►
it's like you know that's pressure right
[TS]
01:43:05
◼
►
but he rose to that I guess you would
[TS]
01:43:08
◼
►
say and came up with icloud which for
[TS]
01:43:09
◼
►
what you may say about it is certainly
[TS]
01:43:11
◼
►
better than mobilni was certainly a more
[TS]
01:43:13
◼
►
compelling product but still has his own
[TS]
01:43:15
◼
►
problems he's in charge Siri maps itunes
[TS]
01:43:18
◼
►
store the bookstore iCloud itunes match
[TS]
01:43:22
◼
►
his record is ok he's probably the guy
[TS]
01:43:28
◼
►
with the best record inside Apple at
[TS]
01:43:30
◼
►
doing online services but as we've
[TS]
01:43:32
◼
►
discussed many many times in pet shows
[TS]
01:43:35
◼
►
out this is still not Apple strength
[TS]
01:43:37
◼
►
iTunes Match as an example I enable that
[TS]
01:43:39
◼
►
I think I talked about this in Apache I
[TS]
01:43:40
◼
►
enabled that recently it didn't work the
[TS]
01:43:43
◼
►
first several times I tried it were just
[TS]
01:43:44
◼
►
grind for a long time then failed an
[TS]
01:43:46
◼
►
obscure error then it finally worked but
[TS]
01:43:47
◼
►
then some tracks expla khalif ailed to
[TS]
01:43:50
◼
►
upload and there's no real visibility
[TS]
01:43:52
◼
►
into whether it's working or not and
[TS]
01:43:53
◼
►
we've all heard about iCloud woes
[TS]
01:43:55
◼
►
Merlin's talked about in his shows and I
[TS]
01:43:57
◼
►
can do flaky things and you really have
[TS]
01:43:59
◼
►
no recourse you don't know why it's not
[TS]
01:44:00
◼
►
working you just sit there and hope and
[TS]
01:44:02
◼
►
pray that it works again you know if the
[TS]
01:44:03
◼
►
server the client or both Game Center
[TS]
01:44:06
◼
►
recently we're all playing letterpress
[TS]
01:44:07
◼
►
are you pointing letterpress oh yeah
[TS]
01:44:09
◼
►
you're not playing plenum press with me
[TS]
01:44:11
◼
►
anyway I'm cuz yeah I don't know how to
[TS]
01:44:12
◼
►
get you on there yeah that's the problem
[TS]
01:44:14
◼
►
this problem Game Center speaking of
[TS]
01:44:15
◼
►
online services it shouldn't be easier
[TS]
01:44:17
◼
►
for like me to find you and to send you
[TS]
01:44:19
◼
►
a request and stuff like that it's like
[TS]
01:44:20
◼
►
it'll even look at R address book and if
[TS]
01:44:22
◼
►
you used it you know like a different
[TS]
01:44:24
◼
►
account then
[TS]
01:44:24
◼
►
the one that I have you down for oh well
[TS]
01:44:27
◼
►
yeah like I I there's plenty people who
[TS]
01:44:29
◼
►
I know their email address i know the
[TS]
01:44:31
◼
►
twitter address i know them personally
[TS]
01:44:32
◼
►
and yet i can't find them in kingston
[TS]
01:44:33
◼
►
i'm adding you right now there yep I'm
[TS]
01:44:36
◼
►
and you should be able to add them by
[TS]
01:44:37
◼
►
username like you can pick a username
[TS]
01:44:39
◼
►
for game son I can tell you what my user
[TS]
01:44:40
◼
►
it's just my name you know John Serkis
[TS]
01:44:42
◼
►
with space in the middle but you can't
[TS]
01:44:44
◼
►
add based on that anyway letterpress
[TS]
01:44:46
◼
►
seem to from external appearances crush
[TS]
01:44:49
◼
►
game center just like the matchmaking
[TS]
01:44:50
◼
►
thing like when the game came out it was
[TS]
01:44:52
◼
►
very popular this is a Victor's new word
[TS]
01:44:55
◼
►
matching game that a lot of publicity in
[TS]
01:44:57
◼
►
the macworld but come on how big could
[TS]
01:44:58
◼
►
it are really bent like it's not like
[TS]
01:45:00
◼
►
words with friends Calvary yeah and our
[TS]
01:45:02
◼
►
little nerd circles were all popular
[TS]
01:45:03
◼
►
yeah I know I was like the number one
[TS]
01:45:05
◼
►
and number two paid app for the first
[TS]
01:45:07
◼
►
day or whatever but that's like a nerd
[TS]
01:45:09
◼
►
bump I feel like you know my mother
[TS]
01:45:10
◼
►
doesn't know what letterpress is but my
[TS]
01:45:11
◼
►
mother knows what words with friends is
[TS]
01:45:13
◼
►
you know and it's not angry birds level
[TS]
01:45:14
◼
►
and yet because it used game center as
[TS]
01:45:16
◼
►
its back end it you know and maybe game
[TS]
01:45:18
◼
►
center had been used that much or hadn't
[TS]
01:45:19
◼
►
been tested it kind of fell over and
[TS]
01:45:21
◼
►
that that's embarrassing for Apple
[TS]
01:45:22
◼
►
Google still does all this stuff better
[TS]
01:45:25
◼
►
an apple still does not seem to have a
[TS]
01:45:28
◼
►
server-side culture and we've talked
[TS]
01:45:31
◼
►
about in past shows what other companies
[TS]
01:45:32
◼
►
do but at this point I think we have to
[TS]
01:45:34
◼
►
say with iCloud an itunes match and Game
[TS]
01:45:36
◼
►
Center like all these things that Apple
[TS]
01:45:38
◼
►
is doing at this point Apple really
[TS]
01:45:41
◼
►
should be doing what all the other big
[TS]
01:45:42
◼
►
guys do before I was contrasting it and
[TS]
01:45:45
◼
►
saying here's what Google does here so
[TS]
01:45:46
◼
►
the Facebook dog and apple doesn't do
[TS]
01:45:48
◼
►
that and how can they ever be as good as
[TS]
01:45:49
◼
►
that but now Apple has so many things
[TS]
01:45:51
◼
►
online and so many essential important
[TS]
01:45:53
◼
►
parts that I cloud is essential for iOS
[TS]
01:45:55
◼
►
which is its money maker right and
[TS]
01:45:56
◼
►
iTunes Match an itunes store like and
[TS]
01:45:59
◼
►
you know even things like Game Center
[TS]
01:46:00
◼
►
this is you know the Apple is as much an
[TS]
01:46:03
◼
►
online service company at this point as
[TS]
01:46:05
◼
►
something like Google practically Apple
[TS]
01:46:07
◼
►
this point should be building its own
[TS]
01:46:09
◼
►
servers writing some of its own server
[TS]
01:46:11
◼
►
side infrastructure saw we're doing all
[TS]
01:46:13
◼
►
the things that Facebook Amazon and
[TS]
01:46:15
◼
►
Google do in the Apple as far as me out
[TS]
01:46:17
◼
►
does not do Apple should not be using
[TS]
01:46:19
◼
►
when Windows Azure at which it
[TS]
01:46:21
◼
►
reportedly was it should not be leaning
[TS]
01:46:23
◼
►
on oracle and EMC to solve its problems
[TS]
01:46:25
◼
►
it really has to get a server-side
[TS]
01:46:28
◼
►
culture I mean just steal Google's
[TS]
01:46:31
◼
►
entire operation team and pay them
[TS]
01:46:32
◼
►
gazillions of dollars you got but if I
[TS]
01:46:34
◼
►
had to say what should Apple do with its
[TS]
01:46:36
◼
►
building some dollars i mean maybe they
[TS]
01:46:37
◼
►
can't buy these guys
[TS]
01:46:38
◼
►
but in the fantasy world where that
[TS]
01:46:40
◼
►
money could transfer into getting
[TS]
01:46:42
◼
►
Google's entire operations and that's
[TS]
01:46:43
◼
►
what Apple would need if they could if
[TS]
01:46:44
◼
►
applicant wish one things into existence
[TS]
01:46:46
◼
►
it would be give us a server-side
[TS]
01:46:47
◼
►
operations team as good as Google or
[TS]
01:46:50
◼
►
maybe even Amazon's because both of
[TS]
01:46:51
◼
►
those guys you know and Facebook is kind
[TS]
01:46:54
◼
►
of just slap things together but like
[TS]
01:46:55
◼
►
even Twitter even Twitter's has even
[TS]
01:46:58
◼
►
with all the fail whale stuff has like
[TS]
01:47:00
◼
►
seemed to get its act together and
[TS]
01:47:02
◼
►
apples still after all this time doesn't
[TS]
01:47:05
◼
►
have its act together so Eddy Cue still
[TS]
01:47:07
◼
►
has a smart cut out for him uh and i
[TS]
01:47:10
◼
►
think i think it's a cultural thing more
[TS]
01:47:12
◼
►
than like oh this one executive can snap
[TS]
01:47:14
◼
►
his fingers make this happen it's got to
[TS]
01:47:17
◼
►
be some kind of change its going to
[TS]
01:47:18
◼
►
happen inside Apple to to recognize that
[TS]
01:47:20
◼
►
you're not the company than X iphones
[TS]
01:47:22
◼
►
and ipads or the company that spends
[TS]
01:47:24
◼
►
half its resources doing this invisible
[TS]
01:47:26
◼
►
server side stuff that you don't think
[TS]
01:47:28
◼
►
it is important that you just want to go
[TS]
01:47:29
◼
►
away that you just want to pay a vendor
[TS]
01:47:30
◼
►
to do but you can't because this is now
[TS]
01:47:32
◼
►
a core competency of your company and
[TS]
01:47:34
◼
►
you got it you got to get handle on it
[TS]
01:47:35
◼
►
frustrating craig federighi will now
[TS]
01:47:43
◼
►
lead both iOS and OS 10 / trance early
[TS]
01:47:47
◼
►
the guy who used to be in charge of just
[TS]
01:47:49
◼
►
OS 10 he was the OS 10 guy when
[TS]
01:47:51
◼
►
Forrestal was the iOS guy but Ron
[TS]
01:47:53
◼
►
retired in an actual you know not
[TS]
01:47:56
◼
►
retired from working but left Apple on
[TS]
01:47:58
◼
►
good terms of his own accord went off to
[TS]
01:48:01
◼
►
do his own interesting things and start
[TS]
01:48:02
◼
►
his own startups and do stuff like that
[TS]
01:48:04
◼
►
uh and he endorsed on his way out the
[TS]
01:48:08
◼
►
door endorsed credit craig federighi as
[TS]
01:48:10
◼
►
his successor uh and so federighi is
[TS]
01:48:14
◼
►
coming in he was super nervous in this
[TS]
01:48:16
◼
►
first time he was in a keynote with his
[TS]
01:48:17
◼
►
hand shaking on the mouse trying to
[TS]
01:48:19
◼
►
demonstrate gestures be out so yeah
[TS]
01:48:20
◼
►
coming to his own like this is all we
[TS]
01:48:23
◼
►
see it as executive it's so hard to like
[TS]
01:48:24
◼
►
you're gonna talk about an executor and
[TS]
01:48:25
◼
►
all you're gonna talk about is the 10
[TS]
01:48:26
◼
►
minutes they were on stage but that's
[TS]
01:48:28
◼
►
all we see them like we see them when
[TS]
01:48:29
◼
►
they do keynotes and does not be shaken
[TS]
01:48:31
◼
►
when you're up there yeah but he you
[TS]
01:48:33
◼
►
know that that's our proxy for judging
[TS]
01:48:35
◼
►
how he's doing inside the company in the
[TS]
01:48:36
◼
►
beginning you know that's those are big
[TS]
01:48:38
◼
►
shoes to fill and then but now like in
[TS]
01:48:42
◼
►
the most recent one he's got the hair
[TS]
01:48:44
◼
►
force one joke which worked well for him
[TS]
01:48:46
◼
►
and he's getting the personality and
[TS]
01:48:48
◼
►
people started to like him when he seems
[TS]
01:48:49
◼
►
more confident so he's in charge of
[TS]
01:48:51
◼
►
uh it always tends technical stewardship
[TS]
01:48:54
◼
►
I think this is a complete list maybe
[TS]
01:48:56
◼
►
I'm missing some of the year but start
[TS]
01:48:58
◼
►
off with avi tuve nyan in the beginning
[TS]
01:48:59
◼
►
and then he retired to become a venture
[TS]
01:49:03
◼
►
capitalist so let's say you know an
[TS]
01:49:04
◼
►
amicable parting of ways but Ron's early
[TS]
01:49:06
◼
►
took over there and then he went off to
[TS]
01:49:08
◼
►
do his startup thing Amika parting of
[TS]
01:49:10
◼
►
ways and he hands it off to Craig
[TS]
01:49:12
◼
►
federighi who's the current guy all
[TS]
01:49:14
◼
►
those people are X next guys which maybe
[TS]
01:49:16
◼
►
is not that surprising given the sort of
[TS]
01:49:18
◼
►
inverse takeover of next of Apple you
[TS]
01:49:20
◼
►
know of Apple by next but it basically
[TS]
01:49:25
◼
►
means that there's never been a from the
[TS]
01:49:28
◼
►
beginning quote-unquote mac guy in
[TS]
01:49:29
◼
►
charge of mac OS 10 it's always been
[TS]
01:49:31
◼
►
next guys and there's a little bit of a
[TS]
01:49:33
◼
►
checkered history there especially back
[TS]
01:49:34
◼
►
in the day where the people who just
[TS]
01:49:37
◼
►
became a creatures recently probably
[TS]
01:49:38
◼
►
don't remember this but there was a big
[TS]
01:49:41
◼
►
tension between the Apple guys and the
[TS]
01:49:42
◼
►
next guys about what you should do with
[TS]
01:49:44
◼
►
the next generation operating system one
[TS]
01:49:47
◼
►
infamous incident from 2003 involving
[TS]
01:49:51
◼
►
avi to manian was the the tech note 2034
[TS]
01:49:55
◼
►
kerfuffle this I put a link to Gruber's
[TS]
01:49:58
◼
►
post about it at the time called the
[TS]
01:50:01
◼
►
good the bad and the avi technote 2034
[TS]
01:50:04
◼
►
Gruber describes it as being so
[TS]
01:50:06
◼
►
inflammatory and in places so ludicrous
[TS]
01:50:08
◼
►
that Apple withdrew it after howls of
[TS]
01:50:10
◼
►
derision from professional Mac
[TS]
01:50:11
◼
►
developers it's interesting to go back
[TS]
01:50:14
◼
►
and look at these things now so I he has
[TS]
01:50:16
◼
►
gruber thoughtfully has a link to the
[TS]
01:50:18
◼
►
PDF of this which I put in the show
[TS]
01:50:19
◼
►
notes you can actually read this because
[TS]
01:50:20
◼
►
ambil did remove this technote from its
[TS]
01:50:22
◼
►
side and tech notes are like technical
[TS]
01:50:24
◼
►
documents for developers like why would
[TS]
01:50:26
◼
►
you ever have to remove one so this one
[TS]
01:50:27
◼
►
was written by supposedly substantially
[TS]
01:50:30
◼
►
written by a bee demeaning himself the
[TS]
01:50:32
◼
►
next guy in charge of what was supposed
[TS]
01:50:33
◼
►
to be the next Mac operating system
[TS]
01:50:34
◼
►
which had all the mac users all and huff
[TS]
01:50:37
◼
►
and here are some of the crazy ludicrous
[TS]
01:50:39
◼
►
things that it's it avoid using resource
[TS]
01:50:41
◼
►
Forks and you know Mac was intended to
[TS]
01:50:43
◼
►
be an excellent web citizen don't use
[TS]
01:50:45
◼
►
resource works they're not supported by
[TS]
01:50:46
◼
►
web dev NFS SMB blah blah blah you know
[TS]
01:50:49
◼
►
hfs+ still supports them but don't do
[TS]
01:50:51
◼
►
that anymore use file extensions stead
[TS]
01:50:54
◼
►
of sync file name extension CSS file
[TS]
01:50:56
◼
►
extensions if your application creates
[TS]
01:50:58
◼
►
documents those documents should be
[TS]
01:50:59
◼
►
saved with the filename extension
[TS]
01:51:00
◼
►
because I much more durable and blah
[TS]
01:51:01
◼
►
blah blah don't use type creatorcode
[TS]
01:51:05
◼
►
codes are these don't rely on them
[TS]
01:51:06
◼
►
investigate using paths based file
[TS]
01:51:09
◼
►
system API it's not even very forceful
[TS]
01:51:11
◼
►
you should really investigate those
[TS]
01:51:12
◼
►
paths based file system API Isis paths
[TS]
01:51:15
◼
►
revised native access to files and I go
[TS]
01:51:17
◼
►
is 10 all other mechanisms like FS refs
[TS]
01:51:19
◼
►
and FS specs which are various
[TS]
01:51:21
◼
►
structures from the old Mac world that
[TS]
01:51:22
◼
►
lets you track a file independent of its
[TS]
01:51:24
◼
►
path on disk like their unique
[TS]
01:51:26
◼
►
identifier or some combination of this
[TS]
01:51:27
◼
►
stuff says all those things are built on
[TS]
01:51:29
◼
►
top of pests and therefore encourage
[TS]
01:51:31
◼
►
some performance cost this costs can be
[TS]
01:51:33
◼
►
considerable when converting back and
[TS]
01:51:34
◼
►
forth between past so you're saying
[TS]
01:51:35
◼
►
don't you use just Pat string you know
[TS]
01:51:38
◼
►
string path / whatever / whatever don't
[TS]
01:51:40
◼
►
use these higher level constructs that
[TS]
01:51:42
◼
►
are more durable because there's a
[TS]
01:51:43
◼
►
performance cost of doing these things
[TS]
01:51:44
◼
►
he says cocoa is the quickest way to
[TS]
01:51:46
◼
►
develop a mangosteen application so you
[TS]
01:51:49
◼
►
should totally use cocoa that's a slight
[TS]
01:51:51
◼
►
at carbon which was the transitional API
[TS]
01:51:53
◼
►
but at that time was basically the Mac
[TS]
01:51:56
◼
►
API in the form they ran in Mac OS 10 be
[TS]
01:51:59
◼
►
judicious about using C++ for new
[TS]
01:52:01
◼
►
development he slammed C++ in a very
[TS]
01:52:04
◼
►
cautious way saying a low c plus so c++
[TS]
01:52:07
◼
►
provides several attractive features
[TS]
01:52:08
◼
►
especially for application developers
[TS]
01:52:10
◼
►
experience has shown that it also
[TS]
01:52:12
◼
►
presents a couple of risks to be guarded
[TS]
01:52:13
◼
►
against and goes through fragile base
[TS]
01:52:15
◼
►
class stuff and all all the areas where
[TS]
01:52:17
◼
►
objector seems better than C++ saying
[TS]
01:52:19
◼
►
maybe think real hard about doing that
[TS]
01:52:20
◼
►
uh and this technote that i read that
[TS]
01:52:24
◼
►
probably sounds either nonsensical are
[TS]
01:52:26
◼
►
certainly not crazy or ludicrous was
[TS]
01:52:28
◼
►
pulled because of the backlash from the
[TS]
01:52:30
◼
►
then big community of existing Mac
[TS]
01:52:31
◼
►
developers who were suspicious of this
[TS]
01:52:33
◼
►
whole crazy next world they're like
[TS]
01:52:34
◼
►
you're telling me all the crap that I do
[TS]
01:52:35
◼
►
to make mac apps is terrible and you
[TS]
01:52:37
◼
►
want me to use your next stuff and let
[TS]
01:52:39
◼
►
me tell you while your next stuff is
[TS]
01:52:40
◼
►
terrible and so that was like a PR
[TS]
01:52:42
◼
►
problem they pulled that techno so I
[TS]
01:52:43
◼
►
think to this day it goes like twenty
[TS]
01:52:45
◼
►
thirty three and twenty thirty five
[TS]
01:52:46
◼
►
twenty thirty four is gone but many of
[TS]
01:52:49
◼
►
the things that I be recommended
[TS]
01:52:50
◼
►
actually came to past filename
[TS]
01:52:52
◼
►
extensions are used everywhere in Mac OS
[TS]
01:52:54
◼
►
10 now resource fork is deprecated
[TS]
01:52:56
◼
►
carbon stopped at 32-bit did not
[TS]
01:52:59
◼
►
continue into 64 bit it's basically gone
[TS]
01:53:00
◼
►
not gone but you know on its way out so
[TS]
01:53:03
◼
►
Coco was the way to do you know he was
[TS]
01:53:05
◼
►
right you should use cocoa to do that
[TS]
01:53:06
◼
►
stuff not all the things that came to
[TS]
01:53:09
◼
►
pass aren't necessarily good things that
[TS]
01:53:11
◼
►
in particular I think the filename
[TS]
01:53:12
◼
►
extension thing was a big mistake and
[TS]
01:53:13
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they could have done a better compromise
[TS]
01:53:15
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they're not by using resource Forks not
[TS]
01:53:17
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by using H of
[TS]
01:53:18
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type creator codes but simply by making
[TS]
01:53:20
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a new canonical representation of file
[TS]
01:53:22
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type information and merely having the
[TS]
01:53:25
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file extend filename extension be
[TS]
01:53:26
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reflection of that anyway I've discussed
[TS]
01:53:27
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this at length with Barry's people at
[TS]
01:53:30
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many times that ship has sailed Pat's
[TS]
01:53:33
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instead of FS refs and I vest specs that
[TS]
01:53:36
◼
►
was just plain bad advice and luckily
[TS]
01:53:38
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that one didn't come to pass because
[TS]
01:53:39
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paths are not as durable and those you
[TS]
01:53:42
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know those things have a performance or
[TS]
01:53:43
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►
bread yes they do have a performance
[TS]
01:53:44
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overhead but in the grand scheme of
[TS]
01:53:46
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things it's much better to have a higher
[TS]
01:53:47
◼
►
level construct it keeps track of where
[TS]
01:53:49
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►
your files are regardless of their path
[TS]
01:53:50
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►
and Coco does have that now and carbon
[TS]
01:53:53
◼
►
had it earlier and so on so forth so
[TS]
01:53:55
◼
►
that was bad advice but in general the
[TS]
01:53:58
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things he was recommending were like he
[TS]
01:54:00
◼
►
was ahead of everyone else in saying oh
[TS]
01:54:02
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this is the way things are gonna happen
[TS]
01:54:03
◼
►
this is what its gonna look like in the
[TS]
01:54:04
◼
►
future you should start doing this now
[TS]
01:54:06
◼
►
and Mac Mac developers didn't want to
[TS]
01:54:07
◼
►
hear and I think on the most part it was
[TS]
01:54:11
◼
►
good advice and he was right but there
[TS]
01:54:12
◼
►
are a few things in there under his
[TS]
01:54:14
◼
►
stewardship they were wrong and had long
[TS]
01:54:16
◼
►
lasting effects on the operating system
[TS]
01:54:19
◼
►
like waiting so long to get a good
[TS]
01:54:20
◼
►
construct in Cocoa that keeps track of
[TS]
01:54:23
◼
►
files as well as the old carbon api's
[TS]
01:54:24
◼
►
did was bad and made cocoa applications
[TS]
01:54:26
◼
►
look worse than they should have been in
[TS]
01:54:28
◼
►
the early days of cocoa and it was just
[TS]
01:54:30
◼
►
needlessly antagonistic because he was
[TS]
01:54:32
◼
►
just wrong on that like it you have to
[TS]
01:54:34
◼
►
have an API to keep track of stuff don't
[TS]
01:54:35
◼
►
investigate file-based paths you know
[TS]
01:54:37
◼
►
and c++ now that's come and gone but the
[TS]
01:54:41
◼
►
Apple is of two minds about c++ I would
[TS]
01:54:45
◼
►
say he was mostly right on that one per
[TS]
01:54:48
◼
►
transfer lays rain was much less
[TS]
01:54:49
◼
►
controversial for better or worse the
[TS]
01:54:52
◼
►
decisions that avi made that stuck
[TS]
01:54:54
◼
►
continued when Searle a was there uh you
[TS]
01:54:58
◼
►
know there wasn't any big reversal
[TS]
01:54:59
◼
►
anything like that the big thing that
[TS]
01:55:01
◼
►
I'm going to land at the feet of
[TS]
01:55:03
◼
►
Bertrand is the file system crisis which
[TS]
01:55:06
◼
►
was that hfs+ is old and crappy and they
[TS]
01:55:08
◼
►
need something new and that was
[TS]
01:55:10
◼
►
acknowledged and they were gonna go with
[TS]
01:55:11
◼
►
ZFS but then it didn't work that was you
[TS]
01:55:13
◼
►
know he couldn't it just didn't get that
[TS]
01:55:16
◼
►
done in his in his reign it's something
[TS]
01:55:17
◼
►
that still needs to be done he made a
[TS]
01:55:19
◼
►
good effort at it and just didn't work
[TS]
01:55:21
◼
►
out with a ZFS thing which is a shame
[TS]
01:55:22
◼
►
maybe that was more core OS and not some
[TS]
01:55:24
◼
►
what I think that falls under silliest
[TS]
01:55:26
◼
►
thing but yeah I think that is the if
[TS]
01:55:28
◼
►
you got to say what in general nag was
[TS]
01:55:31
◼
►
tended great
[TS]
01:55:32
◼
►
under Sir lay you know that was it sort
[TS]
01:55:33
◼
►
of salad days speaking of past show
[TS]
01:55:35
◼
►
titles uh everything about it got better
[TS]
01:55:38
◼
►
everything about it improved and it was
[TS]
01:55:41
◼
►
all all roses except for the file system
[TS]
01:55:43
◼
►
thing which just didn't get solved and
[TS]
01:55:45
◼
►
still not solved Cora storage helps but
[TS]
01:55:48
◼
►
it's not a new file system um is a
[TS]
01:55:51
◼
►
little thing I putting the show it's
[TS]
01:55:52
◼
►
from o malli' qoran Malachi like to say
[TS]
01:55:55
◼
►
um that I think that's wrong I think
[TS]
01:55:57
◼
►
it's yeah i think it's um I like ohm I
[TS]
01:55:59
◼
►
don't know the meditating it's
[TS]
01:56:02
◼
►
meditative yeah and this is one of those
[TS]
01:56:05
◼
►
you know finding sources from inside
[TS]
01:56:07
◼
►
Apple about Forrestal and so on and so
[TS]
01:56:09
◼
►
forth but this section is about
[TS]
01:56:10
◼
►
Federalist many feel that Craig
[TS]
01:56:11
◼
►
federighi federighi who's taking over
[TS]
01:56:13
◼
►
for our souls job in addition to
[TS]
01:56:14
◼
►
overseeing the mac OS software business
[TS]
01:56:16
◼
►
if someone who needs to prove himself he
[TS]
01:56:18
◼
►
is not a decisive his Forrestal not as
[TS]
01:56:21
◼
►
decisive end divisive is forestall so
[TS]
01:56:22
◼
►
you know by many accounts Forrestal like
[TS]
01:56:27
◼
►
jobs i can imagine had many adherence
[TS]
01:56:29
◼
►
within the company who are very devoted
[TS]
01:56:30
◼
►
to him and now they've had their leader
[TS]
01:56:32
◼
►
taken from them violently like he didn't
[TS]
01:56:34
◼
►
leave on his own they fired him those
[TS]
01:56:36
◼
►
people are cranky and craig federighi
[TS]
01:56:38
◼
►
the guy who used to just be in charge of
[TS]
01:56:39
◼
►
mac OS 10 is now in charge of both mac
[TS]
01:56:41
◼
►
OS 10 and iOS things gonna oh here's
[TS]
01:56:43
◼
►
your new daddy iOS developers and sis
[TS]
01:56:45
◼
►
federighi you might not even know and i
[TS]
01:56:47
◼
►
can imagine him having a little bit of
[TS]
01:56:48
◼
►
uphill battle to get buy-in from all
[TS]
01:56:50
◼
►
those guys especially the guys who were
[TS]
01:56:51
◼
►
forced all forestall loyalists uh but
[TS]
01:56:56
◼
►
overall I'm very optimistic about him
[TS]
01:56:58
◼
►
particularly because for tron gives him
[TS]