65: Look Right into the Eyes of Your Sweetie


  [Music] [TS]

  you are listening to hypercritical it's [TS]

  episode number 65 of this a weekly [TS]

  talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

  wrong the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect but it can't be complained [TS]

  about by my co-host John siracusa like I [TS]

  said it's episode number 65 today is [TS]

  Friday April 27th 2012 I'm Dan benjamin [TS]

  what to say thanks very much to our two [TS]

  sponsors who we will tell you about more [TS]

  as the program goes on source bits calm [TS]

  and squarespace.com thanks very much to [TS]

  them and also to joint comm for making [TS]

  the bandwidth for the show possible so [TS]

  that you could download it from the [TS]

  safety and comfort of your own home good [TS]

  day to you captain siracusa now as john [TS]

  is a true john short for something [TS]

  didn't we do this already i don't recall [TS]

  it i'm pretty sure we did but no it's [TS]

  not sure it's just John I like it that's [TS]

  right run don't you anything you dummy [TS]

  that's enough is enough what's not sure [TS]

  more than enough you could drop the H no [TS]

  that's that's bad okay age is [TS]

  distinguished I like it I'm that I'm [TS]

  just there's just an idea so I do have [TS]

  follow-up today but I thought I would [TS]

  start with something that could be a [TS]

  topic but it fits in the fall kind of [TS]

  segment thought we'd talk a little bit [TS]

  about WWDC you did get your ticket so [TS]

  let's just get that out there you got [TS]

  him yeah yeah and I kind of knew [TS]

  Wednesday was going to be the day the [TS]

  tickets would go on sale my previous [TS]

  theory based on no information was that [TS]

  they would go and sale a similar time to [TS]

  when I went on sale last year so around [TS]

  the 28th I was waiting for them to come [TS]

  out and that didn't happen I'm like okay [TS]

  so now I have no idea when they're going [TS]

  to be and then I started to hear I heard [TS]

  things things about Wednesday and so [TS]

  come Wednesday I'm like what to do on [TS]

  Wednesday should I wake up early and [TS]

  make sure I get to work by 9:00 o'clock [TS]

  so I can be there you know to buy [TS]

  tickets or should I just stay home and [TS]

  you know they go on sale 9:00 I'll buy [TS]

  them take five minutes and then be a [TS]

  little bit late to work and I decided to [TS]

  wake up early so I woke up early got got [TS]

  headed out dark so it works up [TS]

  would be there by nine o'clock and at [TS]

  8:40 sitting in my car I had my phone [TS]

  out and sitting in the little you know [TS]

  center console bin the little thing goes [TS]

  off look it's the WWC Alerts tweet and I [TS]

  said a very bad word very loudly in my [TS]

  car because at that point I was sitting [TS]

  in front of a light in traffic not [TS]

  moving and I had moved in awhile and I [TS]

  continued to sit there watching that [TS]

  light cycle change over and over inching [TS]

  up half a car length three or four feet [TS]

  pause it 18 minutes basically i sat [TS]

  there looking at that light but luckily [TS]

  I had a contingency plan my contingency [TS]

  plan was that vote first of all I had [TS]

  already signed my wife up for WC alerts [TS]

  as well and the second contingency plan [TS]

  was to just get in touch with her and [TS]

  have her buy tickets from wherever she [TS]

  is on the iPhone 4s she got for [TS]

  Christmas right that's what happened I [TS]

  called her I said they're for sale I [TS]

  gave her my ABC login information and [TS]

  she bought sticks for me and so by the [TS]

  time I actually got to work like 25 [TS]

  minutes later I all I had left to do was [TS]

  you know Hotel in plain which was more [TS]

  expensive this year than last year it's [TS]

  kind of a shame yeah although this year [TS]

  they had the thing where Apple maybe [TS]

  they had last year I just didn't know [TS]

  about it Apple has discounted rates for [TS]

  hotels last year I bought through one of [TS]

  those reseller services that gives you [TS]

  like a discount and that ended up being [TS]

  very cheap so I didn't look for apples [TS]

  thing this year Apple had their own [TS]

  rates for attendees slightly cheaper [TS]

  than you would have got if you went [TS]

  through on your own so I'm staying [TS]

  exactly the same place I was staying [TS]

  last year which is a little far away [TS]

  from me but I'll survive do you want to [TS]

  tell me offline which place that is [TS]

  because I must I must know these things [TS]

  all right and that the story this week [TS]

  about WTC is not about whether I got my [TS]

  ticket but it's about all of the [TS]

  complaining and gnashing of teeth about [TS]

  everybody on the west coast you mean [TS]

  just ever like even the people who got [TS]

  tickets some of them just think it's [TS]

  ridiculous you know I got tickets I [TS]

  think it's kind of silly and it's just [TS]

  kind of soul-searching about what what's [TS]

  going on with Debbie Rose it was what's [TS]

  the purpose of this obviously there's [TS]

  way more demand than there is supply [TS]

  they take [TS]

  sold out in two hours if you graph this [TS]

  like 2008 was the first time I sold out [TS]

  or something and then it was like they [TS]

  sold out in two weeks and they sold out [TS]

  in two days then they sold out in 12 [TS]

  hours now they sold out in two hours you [TS]

  graph that you can see like soon they'll [TS]

  be selling out you know five years from [TS]

  now they'll be selling out three [TS]

  microseconds or something obviously it's [TS]

  not possible because of the speed of the [TS]

  website they have selling them but in [TS]

  general it's like that we have a problem [TS]

  here in terms of supply and demand and [TS]

  some people come in all sorts of things [TS]

  like oddly lots of people have plans [TS]

  designed to make sure that they get a [TS]

  ticket and other people don't oh it [TS]

  should be based on the age of your atc [TS]

  account to be based on if you have a [TS]

  successful app in the store all sorts of [TS]

  things like that some one person even [TS]

  suggested a lottery which i think it's a [TS]

  great way to make nobody happy [TS]

  because that's just yeah you know so [TS]

  this is kind of like WWE alerts service [TS]

  in general this was a service that [TS]

  somebody put up i I should have known [TS]

  these people's name but I don't but it [TS]

  was a Twitter account WWC alerts you can [TS]

  go to a web site and you enter in your [TS]

  your phone number and they promise to [TS]

  send your text when your saying you did [TS]

  you did get one right you did receive [TS]

  your say I had now again I signed up for [TS]

  this just so that I could participate in [TS]

  the excitement of the event I didn't [TS]

  have any intention of buying tickets and [TS]

  I didn't buy any tickets but I still [TS]

  have yet to receive my text message I'm [TS]

  waiting hoping that I will still get it [TS]

  you're not gonna get oh well I guess it [TS]

  could be held up in the carrier but so [TS]

  the thing people annoyed about with the [TS]

  texts is i hey i got my text telling me [TS]

  tickets are for sale but i got them [TS]

  after the thing was already sold out so [TS]

  that kind of defeats the purpose and so [TS]

  they weren't sure her to be mad about [TS]

  should i be mad at WWC alerts because [TS]

  they didn't send me my text until the [TS]

  secretary sold out show i met at my [TS]

  carrier because the text was sent but [TS]

  the carrier held on to it before sending [TS]

  it to me and that's a possibility so I [TS]

  asked on Twitter what the deal is with [TS]

  the with the alerts Inc then again by [TS]

  the way this is a free service done out [TS]

  of the goodness of someone's heart you [TS]

  know don't think anyone has any [TS]

  realistic expectation that they owed [TS]

  anything by this free service that they [TS]

  got and the person who runs it said that [TS]

  they sent out tweets and first-come [TS]

  first-serve passion or FIFO fashion for [TS]

  all you computer scientists out there [TS]

  which i think is completely fair because [TS]

  the most rabid crazy people who signed [TS]

  up [TS]

  soon as they saw something called [TS]

  debussy alerts that would text you they [TS]

  got their their text sent first they [TS]

  could still have problems if their [TS]

  carrier held on to it or if their phone [TS]

  wasn't on or all sorts of other things [TS]

  but I would imagine the vast majority of [TS]

  people who are getting their texts later [TS]

  my wife included it's because they [TS]

  signed up later so I signed up the [TS]

  second I saw that Twitter account and I [TS]

  signed my wife up I think just later in [TS]

  that same day or so it wasn't that long [TS]

  of a gap between when I signed up when [TS]

  my wife signed up but she didn't get her [TS]

  text until long long after I got mine so [TS]

  and then of course is the wild card of [TS]

  carriers holding texts for some amount [TS]

  of time which no one can you know make [TS]

  any termination of so the WDC alerts is [TS]

  like WWC itself and that the current [TS]

  strategy they're using is the people who [TS]

  want it more have a higher chance of [TS]

  getting it not guaranteed but it's kind [TS]

  of like if you have a movie theater [TS]

  thing where it's like well people line [TS]

  up overnight to go see some movie or [TS]

  line up overnight to get in to Macworld [TS]

  keynote or whatever right those are the [TS]

  people who are the most crazy and rabid [TS]

  and it's first come first serve and they [TS]

  get in if you don't get in you could say [TS]

  oh this is BS I'm not gonna stay up over [TS]

  you know it's it's kind of sorting [TS]

  itself out in terms of enthusiasm now [TS]

  again it's not a guarantee because there [TS]

  are plenty people who signed up for the [TS]

  service the second they saw it and had [TS]

  like multiple alarms and had their own [TS]

  things set up to scrape apples website [TS]

  and write all them in every possible way [TS]

  you know and told all the friends to [TS]

  text them and tell them and they just [TS]

  like they happen to be like at a phone [TS]

  range or asleep or they got the text too [TS]

  late or you know there's so many things [TS]

  they can stop you from getting and those [TS]

  people are said and I would be very sad [TS]

  about that too so what's the what's the [TS]

  solution here and I think this is [TS]

  started a lot of soul-searching at least [TS]

  amongst the people who didn't get [TS]

  tickets about WWDC itself and as this [TS]

  conference outgrown its usefulness or in [TS]

  its current incarnation it's not it [TS]

  doesn't make sense anymore or like [TS]

  something is to change about it it seems [TS]

  like because you know if it's if every [TS]

  year an increasingly smaller fraction of [TS]

  the total people who want to go end up [TS]

  going that seems bad to me because even [TS]

  if those are the most enthusiastic [TS]

  fraction is that what Apple wants out [TS]

  so it's trying to think about what the [TS]

  point of WBC is so there's a couple of [TS]

  aspects obviously one is that developers [TS]

  go there to get help with doing their [TS]

  job they learn things about developing [TS]

  for the platforms that Apple promotes [TS]

  they get to ask questions in person to [TS]

  people who write the code that they use [TS]

  to create their applications and [TS]

  presumably all of this is more valuable [TS]

  than the same thing you would get from [TS]

  developer services or from watching the [TS]

  videos or you know sending emails or [TS]

  whatever because even if you could email [TS]

  directly to the guy who wrote the [TS]

  particular framework you're using you [TS]

  having some sort of core foundation [TS]

  problem and you can talk to the guy who [TS]

  wrote core foundation was the original [TS]

  author of it and the main lead on that [TS]

  on the team that created it knows a lot [TS]

  about it right even if you could email [TS]

  that guy directly that doesn't scale [TS]

  because that guy doesn't have time to [TS]

  answer all your emails so here at WWC [TS]

  that guy takes a week off of his normal [TS]

  job basically to answer in person as [TS]

  many questions as you can [TS]

  but that's limited by how many people [TS]

  attend the conference so if if they [TS]

  tried to go like virtual like okay for [TS]

  this week all app employees are [TS]

  available for virtual WWC everybody [TS]

  email away it doesn't work because the [TS]

  whole point is that dude can't answer [TS]

  8,000 emails a day you can only you know [TS]

  talk to a limited number of people day [TS]

  and the attendance of WWC kind of [TS]

  matches up with howhow much can you know [TS]

  that you talk to that guy some people [TS]

  are harder to get to know this but [TS]

  basically over the course of an entire [TS]

  week if you are one of the lucky 5,000 [TS]

  or whatever attendees of WABC you can [TS]

  find and talk to the one guy you want to [TS]

  an apple or the two guys or whoever you [TS]

  can make it happen but if it was ten [TS]

  thousand people would that be true [TS]

  twenty thousand thirty thousand seventy [TS]

  thousand like packs at a certain point [TS]

  there aren't enough Apple employees for [TS]

  the people to get what they wanted out [TS]

  of it but but clearly but with the size [TS]

  that it is now that's something that the [TS]

  conference is for it's for developers [TS]

  who are lucky enough to go to get extra [TS]

  special help with their applications and [TS]

  to learn things in a way that they [TS]

  couldn't without the conference the [TS]

  second aspect is Apple is evangelizing [TS]

  to developers this is a place for Apple [TS]

  to persuade its developers in the [TS]

  development community to do whatever it [TS]

  is [TS]

  wants them to do adopt this API stop [TS]

  using this API revise your applications [TS]

  for the iPad for the retina iPhone get [TS]

  your applications off carbon and onto [TS]

  cocoa whatever the thing is that Apple [TS]

  is trying to get all the developers to [TS]

  do to bring its platform forward here is [TS]

  a chance for them to evangelize directly [TS]

  to them and I think Apple also believes [TS]

  that this is a better way to evangelize [TS]

  in terms of effectiveness than sending [TS]

  them emails or communicating through [TS]

  technical documentation and saying [TS]

  things are deprecated or you know what I [TS]

  mean [TS]

  because this is engineers talking to [TS]

  engineers in person and that there is [TS]

  you know we're human beings and there is [TS]

  a persuasive aspect of that that's more [TS]

  persuasive than hearing the same thing [TS]

  on a video or reading it in an email or [TS]

  reading it technical documentation [TS]

  having a person up on stage pitching [TS]

  basically what Apple wants them to do is [TS]

  very effective and presumably if these [TS]

  are the most rabid enthusiastic [TS]

  developers who really want to get these [TS]

  tickets they are the you know the [TS]

  influencers and the real hardcore [TS]

  developers of the rest of the community [TS]

  so if you can convince these guys it [TS]

  will spread outward for them to the rest [TS]

  of the community another aspect of this [TS]

  is that this is one of the WDC is one of [TS]

  the rare may be the only time that you [TS]

  can get you can get Apple as a [TS]

  collective entity to explain to you why [TS]

  they do things and pretty much if you [TS]

  know in a public place like if you're in [TS]

  developer right not in like a late-night [TS]

  bar where somebody's yeah you know but [TS]

  given a lot of alcohol or even like a [TS]

  technical support incident where you may [TS]

  be the guy will talk to you about stuff [TS]

  that's like all under NDA and it's just [TS]

  between you hit these people are on a [TS]

  stage or in a public place and you can [TS]

  ask them about it and they'll they'll at [TS]

  this point they will explain to you oh [TS]

  we did this because X Y & Z there's a [TS]

  public version of that in the keynotes [TS]

  when Jobs would go up and say we believe [TS]

  that the future is X Y and then you know [TS]

  there's like the public pitch that they [TS]

  want the New York Times to write about [TS]

  the big message for their thing but at a [TS]

  developer level you can say why is this [TS]

  API like this is it because it's just a [TS]

  leftover and you haven't converted it [TS]

  from C to Objective C yet or is it just [TS]

  because like you can find out just [TS]

  because the head of that team really [TS]

  likes C api's but [TS]

  than objective-c like you can argue with [TS]

  them about it like when else do you get [TS]

  a chance for them to actually tell you [TS]

  why they're doing things and developers [TS]

  I feel like me feel they can do it in [TS]

  this sort of safe environment because [TS]

  who really cares like it's not going to [TS]

  be a New York Times story about C versus [TS]

  Objective C ap is right so it's not a PR [TS]

  problem and they'll tell you they'll be [TS]

  like well you know I mean maybe they'll [TS]

  tell you like your quote unquote [TS]

  off-the-record aren't telling you [TS]

  because you're pressed but like they'll [TS]

  they'll be upfront with you and they'll [TS]

  they'll acknowledge problem area is [TS]

  another thing you almost never see or [TS]

  you talk to Apple developers engineers [TS]

  and even hole heads of departments and [TS]

  they'll be very candid to you at WWC [TS]

  about alia that's crappy we totally need [TS]

  to fix that and that was a big mistake [TS]

  we we wanted to do that but we found it [TS]

  was a horrible mistake and now we're [TS]

  stuck with trying to deprecate that api [TS]

  or you know depending on how much how [TS]

  many drinks you've had with the people [TS]

  maybe they'll even tell you oh like I [TS]

  was a jerk knee insist that I'm doing [TS]

  this this way and we change it into it [TS]

  that way and he got annoyed and change [TS]

  to a different group like all the way [TS]

  down to individual gossip but but all [TS]

  the way up to on stage in front of a [TS]

  roomful of people [TS]

  and granted all this stuff is under NDA [TS]

  - but it's like more public because [TS]

  there's hundreds or thousands of people [TS]

  there it's as far as I'm aware it's a [TS]

  unique opportunity to get candid [TS]

  communication with an entity that is [TS]

  perfected the art of stonewalling [TS]

  everybody and only letting out very [TS]

  controlled pieces of information so all [TS]

  if that's what WTF see is the valley's [TS]

  things I describe what is there anything [TS]

  that you can replace it with that [TS]

  replace our multiple things maybe that [TS]

  you replace it with that provides all [TS]

  the same things in different [TS]

  configurations like if you had a virtual [TS]

  conference where they streamed [TS]

  everything live but then they took like [TS]

  live video questions then could you ask [TS]

  your questions in person then but then [TS]

  you wouldn't be seeing them like in [TS]

  person in person and you couldn't have a [TS]

  drink with them afterwards and does the [TS]

  evangelizing network as well and does [TS]

  that not scale because everyone can't [TS]

  get a chance to answer that question or [TS]

  do you do the virtual conference that [TS]

  also an in-person conference or you just [TS]

  change apples policies around [TS]

  communicating with developers to be more [TS]

  open all the time so WABC isn't the only [TS]

  place where you can get this candid [TS]

  exchange of information I don't know the [TS]

  answer is or maybe you just keep going [TS]

  like this or do you double the size w2 [TS]

  BC and it still works when it's doubled [TS]

  but it wouldn't work of as tripled or [TS]

  quadrupled [TS]

  we've seen it happen with many shows [TS]

  with South by Southwest and with e3 [TS]

  where these shows go through a cycle [TS]

  where they're they're popular they get [TS]

  bigger and bigger and then they implode [TS]

  and then they court of go away for a [TS]

  while and then come back so South by [TS]

  Southwest hasn't imploded yet but I see [TS]

  that out in their future if we did [TS]

  implode went away came back but the [TS]

  implosion of e3 kind of led not directly [TS]

  but indirectly it helped boost packs to [TS]

  have like an alternate conference about [TS]

  everything and there are tons of other [TS]

  conferences that alternatives at WABC [TS]

  but it's tough to really ever come close [TS]

  to replacing a business the one that's [TS]

  officially sponsored by Apple where the [TS]

  Apple people are there and talking to [TS]

  you so I don't know what the answer is [TS]

  here I just I think this is an issue [TS]

  that will come up a lot in conversations [TS]

  at WWC this year and I think the people [TS]

  at Apple probably are thinking about it [TS]

  I think they've got a few more years [TS]

  they can continue like this but at a [TS]

  certain point it becomes kind of silly [TS]

  and maybe even the people who get to go [TS]

  might be going to get a little cranky [TS]

  about it and saying this is kind of [TS]

  ridiculous you know this year I'm not [TS]

  even going to try to stay up and get my [TS]

  text and try to get a ticket you know [TS]

  and of course the simple solution that I [TS]

  always bring up the nobody likes [TS]

  including me is so you have a supply and [TS]

  demand problem raised the price takes [TS]

  care of it right away doesn't it keep [TS]

  raising the price until you just barely [TS]

  sell out problem solved not really [TS]

  because that's favoring rich developers [TS]

  from big companies and is that really [TS]

  who Apple wants to talk to are they the [TS]

  biggest influencers for Apple's purposes [TS]

  probably not so if that was the only [TS]

  problem it was just a supply and demand [TS]

  problem they could solve it just by [TS]

  raising the price but I think they'd [TS]

  have to raise it pretty darn high [TS]

  actually to get the to get it not to [TS]

  sell out or just just to barely sell out [TS]

  who wants to spend $10,000 for a ticket [TS]

  today very sick you know twenty thousand [TS]

  dollars how high does it have to be to [TS]

  keep people away I do not recommend that [TS]

  approach but that would be the obvious [TS]

  economists solution to this problem [TS]

  where there is supply and demand [TS]

  imbalance as long as I thought it would [TS]

  be but I thought I thought it was worth [TS]

  talking about it did you do a talk show [TS]

  already this week we talked about WC [TS]

  yeah we talked about a little bit and [TS]

  you know John indicated that he got his [TS]

  ticket and didn't really have much of a [TS]

  solution himself or was clearly it very [TS]

  clearly a problem [TS]

  yeah and I don't know how big of a [TS]

  problem it is or if it's just because [TS]

  we're close to the event but the fact [TS]

  that the people even the people who got [TS]

  tickets think it's a problem I think [TS]

  indicates that it really is and our [TS]

  Apple probably agrees this is another [TS]

  thing we'll be able to talk to them [TS]

  about WABC whoever's in charge this that [TS]

  thing is talked to the head of developer [TS]

  relations guy and if they go yeah we [TS]

  know it's a problem and they'll probably [TS]

  discuss it with you or they'll say what [TS]

  are you talking about what problem seems [TS]

  fine to me and then you will have [TS]

  learned something that you wouldn't have [TS]

  learned otherwise [TS]

  you know when WWDC was started you know [TS]

  Apple was not in the position that it's [TS]

  in today right now and you you have to [TS]

  think back to the way that it was it is [TS]

  that I don't I don't know when what year [TS]

  it actually was the first year that had [TS]

  sold out but there were plenty of years [TS]

  before I ever went where it didn't sell [TS]

  it or where it was you know just [TS]

  something that only only the most [TS]

  interested dedicated Apple developers [TS]

  would even consider going to something [TS]

  like this you know people who were [TS]

  already making a living from building a [TS]

  Mac application that these were the only [TS]

  people who would even consider going to [TS]

  something like that and they would go [TS]

  and it was great and it was small it was [TS]

  personal and then even even before iOS [TS]

  happened even before there was an iPhone [TS]

  it started to get much more popular and [TS]

  now it's become something that's clearly [TS]

  unwieldy I wonder if they would have [TS]

  even created WWDC in the first place if [TS]

  they were such a large company I would [TS]

  have been something completely different [TS]

  that they would have made I think one [TS]

  smart thing they have done is not in the [TS]

  past few years reacted in the [TS]

  straightforward manner of so there's [TS]

  more demand for our conference let's [TS]

  sell more tickets and buy a bigger venue [TS]

  is that's what South by Southwest and [TS]

  III both yeah right it was just money [TS]

  money money so at the very least Apple [TS]

  has shown at least the wisdom to say I [TS]

  think they probably have increased [TS]

  attendance a lot since the thing started [TS]

  but they haven't gone well let's just [TS]

  turn that knob up until you know what I [TS]

  mean isn't there's not a 20,000 person [TS]

  wacc and I think they could sell 20,000 [TS]

  tickets so they wanted to they [TS]

  just need a much bigger venue but they [TS]

  haven't done that to to apples credit so [TS]

  in typical Apple Manor the default [TS]

  action is no action and no communication [TS]

  until they figure out what they're going [TS]

  to do they don't scramble they don't do [TS]

  the obvious thing that they think [TS]

  everyone should do or just make the [TS]

  conference bigger and you know put it in [TS]

  a Superdome or something I don't so I'm [TS]

  not sure what's what's happening there [TS]

  but we all have we all have our eye on [TS]

  and it's interesting that we have our [TS]

  eye on it more now than we did last year [TS]

  because last year was like what they [TS]

  sold out in two days or something but it [TS]

  just maybe there were fewer people who [TS]

  wanted tickets who didn't get them or [TS]

  that was the impression but once it gets [TS]

  down to a couple of hours I guess we've [TS]

  crossed the threshold of of anger and [TS]

  resentment in the community that now now [TS]

  we're all talking about this so here's [TS]

  something that I want to mention that it [TS]

  it's obvious but it's something that's [TS]

  worth mentioning and that is Apple does [TS]

  not Apple probably loses money or at [TS]

  least they lose productivity so in that [TS]

  sense they're probably losing money on [TS]

  WWDC this is not a money-making that [TS]

  this is not even a blip in where they [TS]

  make their money from the unlike South [TS]

  by Southwest which is the conference it [TS]

  exists to do the conference that is you [TS]

  know it is a conference pax is a [TS]

  conference so those things need to make [TS]

  money Apple doesn't care about making [TS]

  money from this and they could charge [TS]

  anything or they could charge nothing [TS]

  for these tickets it's not going to cost [TS]

  them very much yes it costs a lot of [TS]

  money and for most companies they [TS]

  couldn't conceive of doing something [TS]

  like this the way that Apple could but [TS]

  with with the numbers that just came out [TS]

  this week that they made last quarter [TS]

  this isn't this isn't this is nothing [TS]

  you know that this is really not even a [TS]

  tiny little blip on their chart it's not [TS]

  about the money for them it's almost [TS]

  like the price of admission is solely [TS]

  there as a deterrent because you're [TS]

  right that like they don't care about [TS]

  the money and I don't you know I [TS]

  wouldn't be surprised they do make money [TS]

  on the conference first of all but I [TS]

  don't think that's why they charge the [TS]

  price I do I think they charge the price [TS]

  they do to give some kind of control [TS]

  yeah you know serious applicants only [TS]

  kind of thing and by the way Zaki [TS]

  Zack yahoo in the chatroom says last [TS]

  year sold out in 12 hours not in two [TS]

  days [TS]

  but apparently 12 hours wasn't the [TS]

  threshold I remember last year hearing [TS]

  that crankiness about international [TS]

  people who like hey I was asleep in [TS]

  Australia and I missed it so that makes [TS]

  sense with the 12-hour thing but it [TS]

  wasn't the same as you know two hours is [TS]

  it different order of magnitude I guess [TS]

  but but yeah it's not and not only is it [TS]

  not money-making it's different than [TS]

  conferences like certainly different [TS]

  than PACs and III and probably also [TS]

  doesn't different than then South by [TS]

  Southwest and that those conferences not [TS]

  only exist to make money but they're put [TS]

  on by a conference organiser and then [TS]

  people pay the conference organiser to [TS]

  show at the conference you know game [TS]

  makers want to have a big booth and they [TS]

  pay lots of money to put their booths on [TS]

  the show floor and everything that's how [TS]

  they make money because it's organized [TS]

  by somebody and then people come and [TS]

  participate to get access to the [TS]

  attendees but there's no dynamic like [TS]

  that at all at Apple Apple's not selling [TS]

  floor space to the third-party vendor I [TS]

  think they have done that in the past [TS]

  like that's not their money-making [TS]

  scheme it's an Apple conference put on [TS]

  by Apple for you the developer it's a [TS]

  direct relationship between there's no [TS]

  third party conference organiser entity [TS]

  if there is Apple's hiding it behind the [TS]

  scenes who's trying to make money off of [TS]

  this it is Apple and you Apple talks to [TS]

  you you talk to Apple and they're you [TS]

  know it's not a clearinghouse for third [TS]

  parties to give money to get access to [TS]

  all the developers who were there and [TS]

  that makes it very different then I [TS]

  think it's even different like I've [TS]

  never been to Java one or anything like [TS]

  that but that strikes me something where [TS]

  vendors would want to display and you [TS]

  know it's not just a Google i/o is [TS]

  closer because I think it's mostly [TS]

  Google talking to to people about Google [TS]

  stuff so it is a kind of a weird thing [TS]

  it's almost like like a seminar like [TS]

  it's part as a paid developer you get [TS]

  special training that you're allowed you [TS]

  know what I mean it's like it's a direct [TS]

  part of your developer membership that [TS]

  you just pay extra for and now you get [TS]

  this extra stuff rather than going to a [TS]

  show to see lots of stuff you know and [TS]

  then of course as Gruber point up is I [TS]

  think I did hear as part of the show you [TS]

  know there's also the keynote which is a [TS]

  separate thing for the press it's not [TS]

  really part WABC but it's like the last [TS]

  vestige of the old way that Apple used [TS]

  to do things where they would have [TS]

  keynotes at big events to announce [TS]

  things [TS]

  mmm-hmm all right so that we had move on [TS]

  for W see if I want to have a chance to [TS]

  even getting through my follow up this [TS]

  episode all right let's do our first [TS]

  sponsor then if you will allow it go for [TS]

  it [TS]

  its source bits software design and [TS]

  development services for iPhone mobile [TS]

  Mac in the web course iPad that's it I [TS]

  mean you know what I could stop right [TS]

  there say go to source bits calm that's [TS]

  enough because that's what they do this [TS]

  is design what they call design lead [TS]

  engineering this is this is what they're [TS]

  all about you work with these guys their [TS]

  entire process the books are open you [TS]

  say I have an idea for this amazing [TS]

  application doesn't matter what it is [TS]

  it's an iPad app great they can build [TS]

  that ties into a web back-end they'll [TS]

  build that you want an android client [TS]

  later on they'll build that too they've [TS]

  done it they know how to do this stuff [TS]

  and design LED engineering this means [TS]

  the designers drive the entire [TS]

  development process then I'm just there [TS]

  to you know make some kind of concept [TS]

  and melt it into the background their [TS]

  designers their present from [TS]

  conceptualization through every stage of [TS]

  development and QA they're plugged in [TS]

  they're available to you they work with [TS]

  you to take whatever that idea is that [TS]

  you have and they make it happen they've [TS]

  got amazing talent in there and don't [TS]

  take my word for it go to source bits [TS]

  comm and check it out if you have an [TS]

  idea for an app look at their portfolio [TS]

  look at the services they offer look at [TS]

  the talent they have on board [TS]

  that's all that's it I mean did by now [TS]

  if you if you haven't gone to source [TS]

  become I did I don't know what to say [TS]

  I'm upset let's just go to the next [TS]

  let's just go to the next topic what you [TS]

  have things I see you through and show [TS]

  notes link for the fridge toaster yes is [TS]

  that is that permissible [TS]

  yeah I'm behind on my listening to Apple [TS]

  earnings call so I haven't actually [TS]

  listened to the call yet but this was [TS]

  Tim Cook in the Apple quarterly earnings [TS]

  call in which they told everyone that [TS]

  they made all the money in the world [TS]

  again someone I some some person asked [TS]

  one of those inane analyst questions [TS]

  that involved what was the it was the [TS]

  question about like combining the iPad [TS]

  and a laptop I don't know one of those [TS]

  one of those things like what do you [TS]

  think of this Tim [TS]

  you know so and he and his response was [TS]

  about the the wisdom of combining unlike [TS]

  things so he has the quote in the [TS]

  article you can converge a toaster in a [TS]

  refrigerator but those things are [TS]

  probably not going to be pleasing to the [TS]

  user right so I can't say much more [TS]

  about the content of the statement [TS]

  because I haven't listened to the thing [TS]

  yet but I believe the reason you put the [TS]

  link in the story and I think was the [TS]

  New York Times link is because the [TS]

  picture they chose for the toaster in [TS]

  this story it's in the New York Times [TS]

  bits blog is the model up from the [TS]

  toaster that I have it looks the same [TS]

  except there's a double button on the [TS]

  front this is the model with convection [TS]

  right and many people were wondering why [TS]

  of all the toasters that could have put [TS]

  a picture of they put that one in there [TS]

  are they five by five fans or the fans [TS]

  of this house two episode or do they [TS]

  just simply Google for the word toaster [TS]

  to end up like that or is this the [TS]

  default rich person's toaster now I [TS]

  don't know I think we had something to [TS]

  do with it though you think if that was [TS]

  true they would have you know whoever [TS]

  wrote it would have Nick Winfield would [TS]

  have like sent us a Twitter message or [TS]

  done some sort of thing like that I [TS]

  don't know but that's it that's it for [TS]

  that I thought it was curious too I will [TS]

  have probably more to say about what Tim [TS]

  Cook had to say if if he really did [TS]

  reveal anything interesting in his [TS]

  responses but at this point since I'm [TS]

  listening to Tim Cook on earnings calls [TS]

  for a long time I would be very [TS]

  surprised if you let anything slip damn [TS]

  it you know he's he was he's much more [TS]

  controlled than Steve Jobs was unerring [TS]

  his calls it's hard to get him to go off [TS]

  on something that he didn't plan to talk [TS]

  about and I think I think Tim does this [TS]

  thing where not that he has like on you [TS]

  know like an ax late-night talk show [TS]

  where they have agreed on questions [TS]

  beforehand but are they tell he wants [TS]

  people think but he knows certain [TS]

  questions are going to be asked and he [TS]

  leads he wants to say something about a [TS]

  particular topic and he will allow it to [TS]

  happen organically like I want to make a [TS]

  statement about netbooks and I know that [TS]

  someone's probably gonna ask me about [TS]

  netbooks so rather than in my statements [TS]

  or in an answer to an unrelated question [TS]

  going off on some screed about netbooks [TS]

  I'll just sit back and wait patiently [TS]

  for the first guy to ask about netbooks [TS]

  and then I'll say what I have to say [TS]

  about netbook so it so it looks more [TS]

  organic I get the feeling that he does [TS]

  that and I was wondering like if no none [TS]

  of the analysts asked about netbooks [TS]

  would he like offered himself like as [TS]

  part of [TS]

  aside and another answer or something so [TS]

  I'll just new this one maybe have more [TS]

  to say about it I think you get the gist [TS]

  of it from what you've already read I [TS]

  mean obviously yeah you should listen to [TS]

  it but yeah those are mine cold can be [TS]

  boring whether it is reading off numbers [TS]

  but you know I fit it in that's why I [TS]

  haven't gotten to it yet Carsten Burns [TS]

  wrote in among many other people [TS]

  pointing me to this Paris pinball [TS]

  parking advertisement where is that this [TS]

  is an advertisement for some Ford [TS]

  parking assist technology that helps you [TS]

  parallel park better but the fact that [TS]

  they set up in Paris I don't know if [TS]

  that's random enough of this you know [TS]

  people in Paris will you know will do [TS]

  whatever it takes to get into a parking [TS]

  space and so they put two cars next to [TS]

  each other and put a little sensors on [TS]

  their bumpers and put a big scoreboard [TS]

  above it so that when people go to try [TS]

  to park there every time you tap one of [TS]

  the car in front of you and vacuu view [TS]

  your score goes up or is it down I [TS]

  remember anyway I put a link to the [TS]

  YouTube video which again is an ad for [TS]

  Ford but it's also funny and it [TS]

  reinforces our meme about parking in [TS]

  Paris involving hitting other cars so I [TS]

  thought it was worth mentioning will [TS]

  Haynes who apparently is in Tokyo I [TS]

  think he's communicated to us many times [TS]

  but I just went to his blog and it's [TS]

  like hi I'm will Haines from Tokyo well [TS]

  hello will Haines in Tokyo that's cool [TS]

  did an awesome post about these iPhone [TS]

  screen size stuff that we've been [TS]

  discussing in the past few shows it's [TS]

  the same type of thing of like let's [TS]

  make the screen taller according to that [TS]

  rumor and he's doing the thing that [TS]

  several I and several of people mention [TS]

  of like okay try to keep the phone the [TS]

  same size just make the phone bigger and [TS]

  make the area above and below the phone [TS]

  smaller and he did a really nice 3d [TS]

  mock-up of it of just basically taking a [TS]

  it's kind of his own design now he's [TS]

  taking the current look of the iPhone 4s [TS]

  stretch the screen shrunk the area above [TS]

  and below it [TS]

  and it kind of fits like he's done the [TS]

  exact measurements of saying if this was [TS]

  exactly what the rumor said and it was [TS]

  you know exactly this height was one of [TS]

  the specs on it if it was exactly 1152 [TS]

  pixels high this is what the screen [TS]

  would look like and he for the design he [TS]

  decided to try to do a little bit of [TS]

  tweaking most it looks like the 4s but [TS]

  he made it slightly thinner than the 4s [TS]

  is 8.9 six millimeters instead of 9.3 [TS]

  four millimeters and made it feel even [TS]

  thinner by shrinking the antenna band to [TS]

  be thinner and then having [TS]

  rounded back if you look at the picture [TS]

  you might think oh that looks thicker [TS]

  but you're thinking that the band is the [TS]

  same thickness on the 4s actually the [TS]

  band is thinner that's trying to lead to [TS]

  like it feels thinner in your hand [TS]

  because the edge is tapered so I would [TS]

  encourage everyone to take a look at [TS]

  this post and read it and you made a [TS]

  cool video of the thing flying around [TS]

  the stuff of an excellent excellent job [TS]

  and when I look at it it doesn't look [TS]

  crazy to me it looks I look at it my [TS]

  thumb feels a little cramped of like oh [TS]

  would I be able to contort myself to get [TS]

  down to that slightly smaller home [TS]

  button or you know can I still reach all [TS]

  the corners with my thumb I guess having [TS]

  it in my hand would help me know what [TS]

  it's like more but it doesn't look crazy [TS]

  it doesn't look like a really long tall [TS]

  I find he's kept the height basically [TS]

  the same just again just shrunk the area [TS]

  and it looks like plenty of room for the [TS]

  FaceTime camera plenty of room for the [TS]

  speaker that goes in your ear it doesn't [TS]

  look crazy the home button will have to [TS]

  shrink a little bit or get more oblong [TS]

  or something but I was excited to see [TS]

  this picture to see what is possible now [TS]

  I will say that I think it looks a bit [TS]

  too much like the current phone not [TS]

  because I think it's bad but because I [TS]

  think the next iPhone will not look [TS]

  exactly like the iPhone 4s like it what [TS]

  the metal band designer on the outside [TS]

  and just like the overall look of like [TS]

  it looks like a black rounded rectangle [TS]

  with a metal band around it I think [TS]

  Apple wants to change [TS]

  I expect a more radical change within [TS]

  reason like details mostly like it's not [TS]

  going to be you know triangular shaped [TS]

  it still can be around a tall red [TS]

  rectangle that they're going to try to [TS]

  make us thin as they can but in the [TS]

  details I think it will look different [TS]

  even if it's just a change in color [TS]

  scheme or like the back isn't the same [TS]

  color as the front anymore or the whole [TS]

  back is silver or the sides are not [TS]

  completely vertical slab sides anymore [TS]

  and they taper or something like that [TS]

  that's what I expect from it but I [TS]

  really like this post and I link to in [TS]

  the show notes I encourage everyone to [TS]

  check it out and speaking of the iPhone [TS]

  rumors many people picked up on my hint [TS]

  not during the show but but after the [TS]

  show many people picked up on my hint [TS]

  about it I was saying well what can [TS]

  what's the what can you do with the [TS]

  iPhone to make room for this screen if [TS]

  you have to start squeezing this stuff [TS]

  you know making the borders of the [TS]

  things thinner Oh is there a way that [TS]

  you can like move things to the edges [TS]

  and I also said like maybe what if you [TS]

  could like for example take the [TS]

  microphone or speaker or camera and bury [TS]

  it behind the display is that even [TS]

  possible [TS]

  and the Big Apple nerds amongst us one [TS]

  of them including my friend Levi Ock [TS]

  wrote in to tell me that hey they Apple [TS]

  had a patent about putting a camera [TS]

  behind a screen I said yes I know I know [TS]

  that's what I was referring to that this [TS]

  was a long time ago he dug up the story [TS]

  for me which was nice I would have had [TS]

  to Google for it but apparently in July [TS]

  2007 there was a Apple filed a patent [TS]

  for a camera behind an LCD display and [TS]

  the idea that was that it would capture [TS]

  images like in between the Refresh [TS]

  events on the display with a whole bunch [TS]

  of you know the patent saying that it's [TS]

  you know we'll try to make it so that [TS]

  the the there's no flickering when when [TS]

  the photo was taken or anything like [TS]

  that like if it's continuous video will [TS]

  try to be good about minimizing the the [TS]

  amount of time you need to to take the [TS]

  picture between the display and I think [TS]

  like I think the ideas that would be [TS]

  imperceptible that the screen is [TS]

  refreshing 60 times a second and there's [TS]

  enough time in between each refresh to [TS]

  get an image without light interference [TS]

  again just because it's a patent doesn't [TS]

  mean this is something that actually [TS]

  works you can patent things that have [TS]

  that you've never actually built and [TS]

  that you're not sure even if the work [TS]

  you're just patenting the idea but this [TS]

  is why I was thinking of what can you [TS]

  berieve and screen pigs of this patent [TS]

  and Apple actually had an earlier patent [TS]

  I think so every years before that about [TS]

  another technique to get a camera behind [TS]

  a screen this one involved like sticking [TS]

  the camera between the pixel or [TS]

  something like that so this is a link to [TS]

  Apple Insider story from a while ago [TS]

  it's in the show notes everyone can [TS]

  check it out and remember when looking [TS]

  at any patent story Apple pens all sorts [TS]

  of things and patents do not mean that [TS]

  they even ever had this working let [TS]

  alone that it was they decided it was [TS]

  useful I just like to fantasize about [TS]

  future technologies like that because it [TS]

  sounds cool doesn't it like you just [TS]

  look at the screen one of the things [TS]

  they promotion in the in the patent [TS]

  thing is like you know when you're doing [TS]

  video conferencing you want to look at [TS]

  them and yeah it's like a look to the [TS]

  upper right of your monitor alright it [TS]

  doesn't look like you're looking at the [TS]

  person now we're like a lazy eye or [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah well bit so that the camera is is [TS]

  directly in the center of your screen [TS]

  you can also put the video window and [TS]

  like an you imagine an iPad or something [TS]

  in the center of your screen then you [TS]

  can look face to face with them so that [TS]

  seems like that seems like a compelling [TS]

  advantage that if Apple were able to [TS]

  pull it off they would say they would [TS]

  like that and maybe they would even [TS]

  advertise that [TS]

  finally face time face to face look [TS]

  right into the eyes of your sweetie [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]

  so that that's what I was getting at [TS]

  last one but I don't have high hopes for [TS]

  a guy uh Alex and dronov wrote in to [TS]

  tell me that Tom lemon Sally who was the [TS]

  guy who's one of whose books referred to [TS]

  the talking to the bear phenomenon of [TS]

  having talking talking out your problems [TS]

  to it and I'm an object to get the [TS]

  rhythm he was apparently a guest on the [TS]

  Stack Overflow podcast and I listened to [TS]

  every single episode of the stack over [TS]

  her podcast [TS]

  Molly's did way back then I think I [TS]

  basically went off but once Jeff Atwood [TS]

  left it's not just not the same without [TS]

  him but I must have heard that episode [TS]

  so there's yet another possible case [TS]

  we're talking to the bear has entered my [TS]

  subconscious and that's that's where it [TS]

  came out of so I'm glad to know that [TS]

  there are good explanations you know [TS]

  even if I can't remember reading that [TS]

  system in book maybe I just heard the [TS]

  podcast episode maybe that was it I'm an [TS]

  old man it's hard to remember yeah and [TS]

  that's it for my follow-up except for [TS]

  follow up on the gaming show last week [TS]

  but that's almost kind of like a topic [TS]

  so we have three sponsors a speaker two [TS]

  - all right so I can keep going keep [TS]

  going [TS]

  okay gaming first I guess this one final [TS]

  little piece of fall that's tangentially [TS]

  related to gaming I should have [TS]

  protected this guy's name before I [TS]

  started David [TS]

  pussy Aldo oh sorry about that David [TS]

  tweeted me a link to a video from freaks [TS]

  and geeks they show one more show that [TS]

  was cancelled way before its time [TS]

  I enjoyed that show when I was on the [TS]

  air and this episode is about this [TS]

  section of the episode of the Dungeons & [TS]

  Dragons and it's YouTube video probably [TS]

  illegal I don't know if it counts as [TS]

  fair use but it's a pretty long segment [TS]

  there that shows a bunch of nerdy kids [TS]

  talking about D&D and the cool kid [TS]

  character but kind of you know [TS]

  too-cool-for-school character right in [TS]

  in the show is in the scene with them [TS]

  and and they one of the people invites [TS]

  him to play D&D and he's like you know [TS]

  D&D it's kind of it's not for the Nerds [TS]

  or whatever and so he goes and plays the [TS]

  indie with them and he enjoys it because [TS]

  the indie is awesome [TS]

  and at the end of the thing the Nerds [TS]

  are kind of conferred with each other [TS]

  about this idea that like once what's [TS]

  going on here like it are we turning him [TS]

  into a nerd or are are is he turning us [TS]

  into cool guys I don't know like would [TS]

  that that dynamic the person sent this [TS]

  to me because the same kind of thing I [TS]

  was talking about with gaming where [TS]

  gaming with the exclusive refuge the [TS]

  Nerds way back when and then and then [TS]

  they field opened up and that's kind of [TS]

  good and you felt like well more people [TS]

  are enjoying games then you're like yeah [TS]

  if it wasn't this hours and is it [TS]

  getting taken over by cool people or is [TS]

  the reverse we're making everybody into [TS]

  nerds and sort of that discomfort with [TS]

  your clique or your little section of [TS]

  people thought you had a hobby all to [TS]

  yourself and expanding out so from [TS]

  mostly I encourage people to watch abuse [TS]

  freaks and geeks is an awesome show and [TS]

  hopefully from looking at that little [TS]

  segment you will be motivated to go [TS]

  watch it on Netflix or get an iTunes [TS]

  card even know where or how it's [TS]

  available but I highly encourage [TS]

  checking out so that was the appetizer [TS]

  for my my revisit of the topic of gaming [TS]

  and gaming culture and the dilution of [TS]

  gaming culture and all the stuff that I [TS]

  talked about last time as is often the [TS]

  case with something that I talk about on [TS]

  the podcast that I haven't previously [TS]

  written about because writing kind of [TS]

  makes you sort of sort through your [TS]

  ideas and figure out what you really [TS]

  think whereas talking as Merlin [TS]

  frequently says it's like the first [TS]

  draft of his ideas he kind of talked it [TS]

  out and you're trying to learn while [TS]

  you're talking you know the act of doing [TS]

  it helps you come to some sort of [TS]

  conclusion discard ideas or whatever and [TS]

  I think last show definitely did that [TS]

  because I spend a lot of time trying to [TS]

  look at this issue of gaming and the [TS]

  hardcore gamers versus the casual gamers [TS]

  and how that's evolved over time as the [TS]

  market expanded I looked at it from all [TS]

  sorts of different angles and use lots [TS]

  of analogies trying to illuminate the [TS]

  various aspects of my points and some of [TS]

  the analogies for like movie watching [TS]

  wine-tasting sports things where time [TS]

  investment can lead to greater enjoyment [TS]

  you know seeing more movies helps you [TS]

  appreciate new movies more tasting lots [TS]

  of wines helps you sort of understand [TS]

  the different aspects of wine watching a [TS]

  lot of a particular sport can help you [TS]

  appreciate the game more these were all [TS]

  examples of like gaming things where [TS]

  time investment leads to greater [TS]

  enjoyment [TS]

  and I think people mostly accept that [TS]

  idea that investing time leads to [TS]

  experience and knowledge in whatever [TS]

  you're investing in which leads to [TS]

  greater enjoyment of whatever that thing [TS]

  is ah but the problem with analogies is [TS]

  well my problem as the person offering [TS]

  them and the problem of listeners who [TS]

  hear them is that when you're offering [TS]

  analogies it's if you're not careful to [TS]

  highlight which aspect that you think is [TS]

  applicable to the thing you're you're [TS]

  you know you're saying this is analogous [TS]

  to that people may think that you're [TS]

  trying to say the entire thing is [TS]

  analogous and that's my fault for [TS]

  miscommunicating and on the on the flip [TS]

  side there are people who believe that [TS]

  analogies are useless unless the two [TS]

  things are analogous in every possible [TS]

  way and they will say well that analogy [TS]

  makes no sense because this is different [TS]

  than that in aspects X Y & Z and to [TS]

  those people I say analogies don't have [TS]

  to match up in every possible way [TS]

  because then it would just be identity [TS]

  and that wouldn't make any sense so [TS]

  there is a balance to be struck there so [TS]

  I don't know if my analogies were apt or [TS]

  not but the in hindsight after the [TS]

  episode was over and looking at the [TS]

  feedback my crucial mistake in trying to [TS]

  think about and talk about it at this [TS]

  topic is that only one of the things [TS]

  that I was making an analogy with and I [TS]

  think it might have been the first thing [TS]

  but only one of the things that I was [TS]

  making analogy with is directly is [TS]

  directly applicable to the idea of games [TS]

  and that's movies because the key point [TS]

  is that games I was saying were a you [TS]

  know strange form of art and that [TS]

  they're different than other forms of [TS]

  art and ago I would say that sports and [TS]

  wine-tasting are not forms of art people [TS]

  can argue with me and about that or [TS]

  whatever but I firmly believe the games [TS]

  are a form of art and typicals argue [TS]

  about that but that was my key point [TS]

  there it's a it's an art form where time [TS]

  investment is not sufficient for full [TS]

  appreciation it doesn't mean that you [TS]

  know you you do get more enjoyment out [TS]

  of it if you invest time you do get [TS]

  knowledge and experience but that that's [TS]

  necessary but not sufficient for full [TS]

  enjoyment and I thought that was weird [TS]

  because I have trouble thinking of any [TS]

  other art form that's like that [TS]

  certainly sports qualifies that [TS]

  wine-tasting all that other hobbies and [TS]

  skills and activities also require [TS]

  skills and many people pointed that out [TS]

  Nemo and it was clear that I was not [TS]

  focusing this enough and if I had [TS]

  written it I think I would have read it [TS]

  over and real [TS]

  is it it's the fact that I'm considering [TS]

  games in art form and like can you think [TS]

  of another art form that requires skill [TS]

  to get full appreciation of it not just [TS]

  knowledge and you know you could say [TS]

  well knowledge is a skill and being [TS]

  smarts the skill and not just time [TS]

  investment in an experience but mostly [TS]

  when I'm talking about skill I'm talking [TS]

  about things that are not natural for [TS]

  the vast majority of the population to [TS]

  do things that have to be learned and a [TS]

  lot of it is physical things but you [TS]

  know that if you take a cross-section of [TS]

  the entire population and say who would [TS]

  find it easy to pick up the skills to do [TS]

  this thing even if there isn't art that [TS]

  require skills and a lot of arts don't [TS]

  require skills that you know physical [TS]

  skills @kj alien conferences dancing it [TS]

  that's a good example because dancing is [TS]

  an art form and it does require a [TS]

  certain minimum amount of skills to get [TS]

  the full enjoyment out of and just and [TS]

  like gaming I would say you don't have [TS]

  to be an expert dancer to get not every [TS]

  ounce of the enjoyment like super expert [TS]

  dancers are getting like a slightly more [TS]

  enjoyment in you are or maybe not [TS]

  depending on if it becomes like work for [TS]

  them and not and not a hobby but you can [TS]

  get mostly German I would say dancing [TS]

  the history of dancing across all of [TS]

  humanity shows that most human beings [TS]

  have at least the minimum skill set to [TS]

  get most of the enjoyment that you're [TS]

  supposed to get out of dancing from [TS]

  dancing because dancing has been around [TS]

  for a really long time all right but I [TS]

  was I was saying that video games are [TS]

  possibly not unique but novel at least [TS]

  in that the forms of art especially [TS]

  since the forms are out there often [TS]

  compared to like you know writing novels [TS]

  fiction and movies and stuff require so [TS]

  little uncommon skill you just need to [TS]

  be literate and intelligent like it's [TS]

  not it the the larger portion of the [TS]

  population has these skills and so [TS]

  gaming is weird because it's an art form [TS]

  that requires skills that do not appear [TS]

  to be common in the general population [TS]

  and my evidence for this is the small [TS]

  number of people who play and enjoy [TS]

  games that require these skills [TS]

  basically if you make your game require [TS]

  the skills that like the first crop of [TS]

  nerdy gamers had that game is not going [TS]

  to be popular and no matter how much [TS]

  gaming spreads like oh gaming is [TS]

  everywhere now we're [TS]

  it's revealing that certain skills that [TS]

  you know the original gamers or the [TS]

  longtime gamers have those skills just [TS]

  aren't common in the general population [TS]

  and if you make a game that requires [TS]

  them you can't sell to lots of people [TS]

  somebody I talked about last time the [TS]

  way game makers address this by making [TS]

  games that don't require those skills to [TS]

  get them out to more of an audience it's [TS]

  as if the very best dances required [TS]

  skills that so few people could do it [TS]

  was like a fraction of a fraction of the [TS]

  percentage of the entire world could do [TS]

  the special dance and this dance was [TS]

  particularly enjoyable and people who [TS]

  are really serious about dancing say [TS]

  well you know if you you know you're [TS]

  playing you're doing casual dance but [TS]

  you can't do a super complex the way [TS]

  dancing is dancers can correct me but I [TS]

  think a circuit say that if you [TS]

  beautifully execute a simple dance like [TS]

  a waltz that's perfectly valid and a [TS]

  full expression of the form whereas [TS]

  gamers or at least me would say that [TS]

  some of the very best things the gaming [TS]

  has to offer are not accessible to the [TS]

  general public who who don't have these [TS]

  particular skills even if they're [TS]

  willing to put in the time to get the [TS]

  experience and the knowledge and you [TS]

  know that the the other aspects that [TS]

  they can get if they're held out by [TS]

  their lack of physical coordination you [TS]

  know from having this experience we [TS]

  would say you're not getting everything [TS]

  the gaming has to offer you're you're [TS]

  intentionally put into like kiddie [TS]

  gaming where yes it's enjoyable and you [TS]

  get lots of the same things but it's not [TS]

  it's not the best of the best and that's [TS]

  what I thought was very novel about that [TS]

  and I had many changes about sports [TS]

  where you know there are other hobbies [TS]

  they require skill to fully appreciate [TS]

  but again I'm not putting them into a [TS]

  form of art someone can argue with that [TS]

  but like there are examples but get even [TS]

  getting beyond the art thing there are [TS]

  sports that you can enjoy unless you [TS]

  have skills that are not coming the [TS]

  general population again I don't think [TS]

  this is analogous because I don't [TS]

  consider sports a form of art I don't [TS]

  think it's weird that sports require [TS]

  skills because so many of them do [TS]

  require skills but the same continuum [TS]

  exists in sports where there are sports [TS]

  that require skills that the majority of [TS]

  the general population of healthy adults [TS]

  have to an adequate degree to play the [TS]

  sports you know like playing catch [TS]

  that's not that that's a sport but you [TS]

  can do that and the skills of baseball [TS]

  for the most part like even if you can't [TS]

  really [TS]

  hit you can kind of catch and you know [TS]

  like you can get by but there are sports [TS]

  like surfing where that the minimum [TS]

  threshold to be successful in any way to [TS]

  be able to serve to the point where [TS]

  people look at you and say that guy is [TS]

  surfing the amount of the population [TS]

  that can do that is much lower than the [TS]

  amount of pop the population that can [TS]

  play a pickup game of baseball or you [TS]

  know touch football or basketball or any [TS]

  of the other sports that are more [TS]

  accessible so and again these this is [TS]

  not directly analogous because sports [TS]

  are not a form of art but it just a lot [TS]

  of people wrote in about sports as and [TS]

  examples in it maybe think that they [TS]

  sports have a similar continuum where [TS]

  the prevalence of the required skills in [TS]

  the general population defines the [TS]

  popularity of these things for [TS]

  participation spectating is is very [TS]

  different spectating is an entirely [TS]

  different thing and I would not call [TS]

  spectating sports a form of art either [TS]

  so it's also not analogous but I'm [TS]

  talking about doing the sport yourself [TS]

  how many people surf versus how many [TS]

  people play basketball down at their gym [TS]

  and I guess a lot of that is to do with [TS]

  you know proximity to waves and water [TS]

  but you know any sport you want to pick [TS]

  gymnastics or something like there are [TS]

  certain sports that require skills that [TS]

  are not common so I think gaming is [TS]

  weird because it's a form of art that [TS]

  requires skills that are not common and [TS]

  I say that to fully appreciate gaming [TS]

  you can't just stick to the games that [TS]

  the vast majority of like I think people [TS]

  who have the have the skills and maybe [TS]

  they just develop the skills but it's [TS]

  it's a some it's a barrier to entry if [TS]

  they have the skills to play the the [TS]

  what we consider the very best of the [TS]

  best games we're getting an experience [TS]

  that other people are not and it's weird [TS]

  that those experiences are closed off [TS]

  because of skills and the the phrase I [TS]

  kept repeating in the previous show was [TS]

  that it's not a value judgment what I [TS]

  was trying to say with that was that it [TS]

  doesn't make us better people or you [TS]

  know it's not it's not a we're better [TS]

  than you because we can do this thing [TS]

  it's mostly I'm coming at it from a [TS]

  reverse perspective where is [TS]

  disappointing that something you enjoy [TS]

  like you can't share that enjoyment with [TS]

  other people and that's why I was [TS]

  talking about the frustration of trying [TS]

  to get my wife to play games that I [TS]

  really enjoy or you know things that I [TS]

  thought my [TS]

  my parents might like because like the [TS]

  experiences we're having our excess you [TS]

  know where it's the same feelings anyone [TS]

  has it you know excitement do you want [TS]

  to share a gonna share it with somebody [TS]

  would appreciate it want that you what [TS]

  you want to force them somehow to [TS]

  appreciate it seems that you want to [TS]

  share things that you enjoy and the [TS]

  inability to share them is making me [TS]

  think about what's what's different [TS]

  about gaming but it seems like [TS]

  everyone's doing gaming and yet I can't [TS]

  I can't share these experiences that I'm [TS]

  having except with the same like nerdy [TS]

  gamer people who have always been [TS]

  sharing these things but isn't gaming [TS]

  popular now why you know and is it just [TS]

  because are we hit are they having [TS]

  exactly as much fun with Angry Birds as [TS]

  we're having with us I don't think they [TS]

  are [TS]

  I don't think Angry Birds is invoking [TS]

  the same kind of emotions that and [TS]

  experiences to the level that the game [TS]

  kind of games I'm playing are so it's [TS]

  not a we're better than you and we're [TS]

  the gamers and you're the non-gamers [TS]

  that's totally not what about so I'm [TS]

  saying it's not a value judgment there's [TS]

  nothing you know it it is what it is I'm [TS]

  just trying to so it's called the way I [TS]

  see it certain skills have a lower [TS]

  prevalence in the general population and [TS]

  you know I'm sure this is exactly true [TS]

  of many other things that I'm missing a [TS]

  ton because I don't have the skills [TS]

  dancing would be one of those for [TS]

  example but it for me as a gamer it may [TS]

  be think about the other thing I think [TS]

  about and this is that gaming in general [TS]

  is that my parents were very anti video [TS]

  game as many parents of my generate uh [TS]

  you know parents of kids of my [TS]

  generation were why were the anti video [TS]

  game it's hard to really explain was [TS]

  just kind of like scary about the new [TS]

  thing it's kind of like rock-and-roll [TS]

  the kids with their music and their [TS]

  video games but they were very anti [TS]

  gaming and didn't allow me to have game [TS]

  consoles in the house so of course I [TS]

  bought every Mac game known to man which [TS]

  they apparently found was okay because [TS]

  computers are educational anyway parent [TS]

  like parents make no sense ah but then [TS]

  when I went onto my adult life of course [TS]

  I you know bought game consoles and play [TS]

  games or whatever in and as I was [TS]

  changing from teenager into adult my [TS]

  parents would frequently ask you what [TS]

  are you gonna stop playing these video [TS]

  games when you're gonna grow out of this [TS]

  like because video games came along when [TS]

  we were kids it was seen as a kid [TS]

  activity that rots your brain and [TS]

  there's nothing useful about it and they [TS]

  didn't believe when I tell them oh I'm [TS]

  learning excellent you know whatever [TS]

  they can't begin mints but they're [TS]

  always ask me one even now they say a [TS]

  Houston playing video games [TS]

  despite the fact that they will play [TS]

  casual games and stuff like that I see a [TS]

  distinction you know they're they're [TS]

  doing their crossword puzzle on their [TS]

  iPad that's not gaming right and you [TS]

  know even though I have gotten them to [TS]

  try to play some other games getting [TS]

  some German they still see it as an [TS]

  activity that we should grow out of and [TS]

  I always tried to give the analogy of [TS]

  like well when did grandma and grandpa [TS]

  stop playing pinochle like do they stop [TS]

  playing that when they you know they [TS]

  play that their whole life they learned [TS]

  it when they were kids and they played [TS]

  it basically till the day they died and [TS]

  no one ever asked them why don't you [TS]

  know stop playing pinochle isn't that a [TS]

  kids game they'd meet with all their [TS]

  retired friends and play that like every [TS]

  week and no one no one gave them a hard [TS]

  time about it you know or swims and [TS]

  chatrooms is our bridge or any needs [TS]

  other things like certain games you know [TS]

  because they were involved cards or [TS]

  whatever they were grandfathered in [TS]

  right but video games that's something [TS]

  different right and I would always try [TS]

  to give that and then I'll do bounced [TS]

  off they didn't accept it but this [TS]

  another thing that made me think about [TS]

  well so what's different about gaming [TS]

  why do they not accept that analogy [TS]

  because they mean it seems [TS]

  straightforward and I think one of the [TS]

  reasons they don't accept it is because [TS]

  the things they see me doing are things [TS]

  that they've tried to do and have not [TS]

  been able to do and just it's [TS]

  inaccessible to them whereas they can [TS]

  play Pinochle a bridge if they learn the [TS]

  rules maybe they're just not into it but [TS]

  it's not it's not like this this thing [TS]

  that's this other right it's still seen [TS]

  it's this other thing that the kids do [TS]

  that I'm not a part of and can't be a [TS]

  part of and don't want to be a part of [TS]

  and don't don't understand what it is [TS]

  that they're getting out of it and I [TS]

  don't think my parents do understand [TS]

  what I get out of gaming because they've [TS]

  never shared that experience even from [TS]

  watching your level of enjoyment there [TS]

  that's they don't they don't I think [TS]

  it's different I think gaming really is [TS]

  a weird form of art because it's [TS]

  partially participatory and that and [TS]

  that your enjoyment is based on that [TS]

  participation that's also what makes it [TS]

  great is that you are making part of the [TS]

  experience your cell phone because what [TS]

  gives you the tie to the experience [TS]

  because you made it happen it didn't it [TS]

  wasn't just it you didn't just read the [TS]

  book and watch the movie it didn't just [TS]

  unfold before you you know it's the [TS]

  cooperation between you and you know [TS]

  it's the two-way communication across [TS]

  time between you and the creator of this [TS]

  game creating the experience that's [TS]

  unique to you that you have an [TS]

  investment in and I don't know if you [TS]

  can explain that to somebody if they [TS]

  have an experience that I think a lot of [TS]

  gamers can't even articulate it I have [TS]

  trouble [TS]

  Delanie but I certainly know lots of [TS]

  other game is like they know they like [TS]

  games and they play them obsessively and [TS]

  sometimes they complain about them [TS]

  constantly all this in the one podcast [TS]

  where all they ever do is complain about [TS]

  how horrible games are and yet they play [TS]

  like every single any time a new games [TS]

  out that comes out they buy it they try [TS]

  it and I say it's horrible like they're [TS]

  they're chasing that high they want that [TS]

  experience I don't know if most gamers [TS]

  can articulate what it is they get out [TS]

  of gaming but they know it's something [TS]

  right and that's why I think it's so [TS]

  difficult for non-gamers quote-unquote [TS]

  using my definition of the harder things [TS]

  to to understand what's going on there [TS]

  even if you explain it to them because [TS]

  they have an experience in themselves [TS]

  and maybe they maybe they just never [TS]

  will until they'll just keep asking when [TS]

  are you going to stop playing those [TS]

  games because it doesn't make sense to [TS]

  them another example from the chat room [TS]

  saying a BASE jumping or proximity [TS]

  flying those things where they jump have [TS]

  you seen those videos but the wingsuit [TS]

  is look like your flying squirrel yeah [TS]

  those are real apparently yeah real and [TS]

  they kill people maybe that's that's an [TS]

  extreme example where I think in those [TS]

  cases where there's danger involved [TS]

  people are comfortable with the notion [TS]

  that the thrill of doing that like just [TS]

  thrill of watching that is pretty high [TS]

  and you can imagine man the thrill of [TS]

  doing that I'm never going to experience [TS]

  that because I do not have those skills [TS]

  but people are okay with that busy like [TS]

  on the other hand my chances of dying [TS]

  are probably decreased over the people [TS]

  who jump off cliffs with those things [TS]

  and skim near that hundreds of miles an [TS]

  hour yeah so and that's that's another [TS]

  thing that people are ok with because [TS]

  they almost well I'm maybe this because [TS]

  they have a rationale but they're like [TS]

  well that's dangerous you know I'm never [TS]

  going to be able to experience that but [TS]

  that's dangerous and what portion of the [TS]

  population have have the skills and in [TS]

  Tesla for that's a small one but that's [TS]

  that's a dangerous thing Gaming is not [TS]

  dangerous you're sitting on a couch so I [TS]

  guess you have to come with another [TS]

  reason why you're not going to [TS]

  experience that and you just say it's [TS]

  it's not that interesting or I don't [TS]

  understand what they get out or they [TS]

  just stop playing or it's silly or they [TS]

  should just you know I'm getting [TS]

  everything they're getting because I get [TS]

  to play Angry Birds I don't know if I [TS]

  helped help to hurt my cause and that [TS]

  topic but to reiterate I what I should [TS]

  have focused more on in a previous thing [TS]

  is that gaming seem like a weird form of [TS]

  art to me because they have this [TS]

  participatory skill element that [TS]

  excludes people from what I believe to [TS]

  be the very best [TS]

  to offer and very few other forms of art [TS]

  are like that I thought that that [TS]

  insight was helping me when I was [TS]

  thinking about it it was illuminating [TS]

  the whole frustration I feel about [TS]

  trying to share this thing I love with [TS]

  other people who in ways that I think [TS]

  they could enjoy not just like you have [TS]

  to enjoy everything that I draw but like [TS]

  gaming is his vast field in this [TS]

  particular game I believe you would [TS]

  really enjoy because like I often think [TS]

  like if this was a movie you would love [TS]

  this movie you know because I know your [TS]

  whatever like portal you know my my wife [TS]

  loves Jonathan Coulton she loved the [TS]

  song she loves that kind of humor she [TS]

  watches Firefly watch it you know she's [TS]

  just right exactly in the sweet spot for [TS]

  portal but it's held back by the skill [TS]

  she doesn't have and it's it's sad to [TS]

  see her not be able to get everything [TS]

  out of the game and spend lots of time [TS]

  worrying about like bumping her virtual [TS]

  head into walls and not making jumps and [TS]

  stuff like that so there we go let's do [TS]

  our second sponsoring between between [TS]

  this and your next topic okay would that [TS]

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  yes it's squarespace.com everything you [TS]

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  pay for something like this because what [TS]

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  they've got an example of tons of [TS]

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  do a Squarespace it looks nothing like a [TS]

  traditional blog because it doesn't have [TS]

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  I thought I was done with gaming with a [TS]

  few more comments in the chat rooms [TS]

  reminding me of a couple other [TS]

  tangential things related to it I think [TS]

  I also talked about these last show but [TS]

  it's worth talking about more many [TS]

  people because many people wrote in [TS]

  about this too and they would point out [TS]

  that in various games including portal [TS]

  they have something where you start the [TS]

  game where they try to teach you how to [TS]

  play the game within the game world [TS]

  using some sort of device layer and halo [TS]

  like okay check check your you know [TS]

  charge up your she's green and you look [TS]

  to the left then care I shooting these [TS]

  targets to make sure of as you're being [TS]

  you know restored from cryogenic sleep [TS]

  or whatever in the original Halo a test [TS]

  your weapon try this target and that [TS]

  tired they're teaching you to play the [TS]

  game and they're trying to ease that [TS]

  ramp they're not going to dump you in [TS]

  and say okay you know how to [TS]

  first-person shooter works just go [TS]

  and although many people do they put [TS]

  these tutorial training or you know some [TS]

  other part of the game with some sort of [TS]

  framing device to basically teach you [TS]

  the skills you're going to need to play [TS]

  this game successfully before bringing [TS]

  you into it and that's just trying to [TS]

  broaden the base for the game because [TS]

  that I believe the game makers want I [TS]

  mean the the cynical one is like oh they [TS]

  want to make the most money so you want [TS]

  the most people to be able to buy the [TS]

  game but I believe the game makers want [TS]

  the most number of people to enjoy this [TS]

  great game they've made they want them [TS]

  more people to get the experience so [TS]

  they have these tutorial levels to the [TS]

  point where [TS]

  there and that the [TS]

  there and that the [TS]

  you know the common stereotype now is [TS]

  that that the annoying tutorial levels [TS]

  bother the gamers like yeah right you [TS]

  have to tell me every single thing in [TS]

  the game I think I mentioned this in [TS]

  last show were this little bubbles [TS]

  popping out at you like this is a health [TS]

  pack run it over to increase your health [TS]

  when your health goes to zero you're you [TS]

  know all and the gamers alike [TS]

  feel that that is unnecessary and [TS]

  condescending and it bothers them and [TS]

  the best games like the gamers [TS]

  appreciate the games that seamlessly [TS]

  integrated into the story so it doesn't [TS]

  it seems less like a tutorial level and [TS]

  it can actually even be kind of fun even [TS]

  though they already know all the things [TS]

  you're being taught and maybe they can [TS]

  use that as the time to figure out what [TS]

  key bindings I want to use for this [TS]

  particular game but I think that goat [TS]

  goes not very far in making gaming [TS]

  accessible because I've seen this happen [TS]

  many times where I've tried to get [TS]

  someone to play a game where the [TS]

  tutorial level really does hold their [TS]

  hand and teach them about the game but [TS]

  then when you get dumped into the game [TS]

  proper [TS]

  especially the game have like [TS]

  adversarial entities that are coming to [TS]

  get you and you have to you know going [TS]

  from I've successfully completed [TS]

  tutorial I know it'll look up look down [TS]

  shoot things or whatever - now whole [TS]

  bunch enemies are going at me and I'm [TS]

  jumping from platform to platform and [TS]

  flipping around in midair and shoot you [TS]

  know this is first-person shooter but [TS]

  any type of thing where the there's [TS]

  quite a cliff from the tutorial level to [TS]

  the game because a lot of games for the [TS]

  game proper there's no two ways around [TS]

  it you're just this you know you're [TS]

  going to have to have skills Elda games [TS]

  are a great example this Bozell does [TS]

  that usually have a very gentle [TS]

  introduction and a really really smooth [TS]

  scale the first dungeon is really simple [TS]

  and the enemies are not very difficult [TS]

  there's lots of health items like it's [TS]

  you know these games like 70 Plus hour [TS]

  games to complete you know by someone [TS]

  who's an experienced gamer lots of time [TS]

  for them to ramp that I feel like is [TS]

  it's good to have that smooth ramp but [TS]

  it's almost cruel because you know if [TS]

  you've played a Zelda game at a certain [TS]

  point midway through or towards the end [TS]

  the bosses are going to get hard not not [TS]

  like impossibly hard for gamers but [TS]

  impossibly hard for a lot of people who [TS]

  could successfully navigate the first [TS]

  dungeon the second dungeon the third [TS]

  dungeon and then how do they feel having [TS]

  invested 15 hours in this game and [TS]

  having hit a wall where the game isn't [TS]

  fun anymore they can't get to the rest [TS]

  of the game because they've reached a [TS]

  limit of their skills [TS]

  I I don't know what that's like I've [TS]

  never seen one go someone go through [TS]

  that I've seen them bounce off much [TS]

  sooner like they can do the first [TS]

  dungeon barely and that's it and I get [TS]

  the first boss battle my cell this is [TS]

  too hard and they don't go through even [TS]

  if they try to persevere and they just [TS]

  say you know you talk to some people who [TS]

  are mostly non gamers who get into games [TS]

  for whatever reason and they're like man [TS]

  I spent you know six weeks trying to [TS]

  beat the first boss in the dungeon or [TS]

  whatever and you know the gamer reaction [TS]

  you could laugh them all you had trouble [TS]

  with that boss it's not hard but that [TS]

  you know I feel for these people because [TS]

  like there's somebody who has realized [TS]

  there's something that these gamers are [TS]

  getting that they might want to get in [TS]

  on and just tried their hardest and just [TS]

  didn't get through it's like the person [TS]

  who decides that using sports analogy [TS]

  they want to be a surfer and they and [TS]

  they just try to surf all summer for [TS]

  like five summers in a row and they just [TS]

  I just never are able to do it it that's [TS]

  kind of said so I don't know what the [TS]

  solution is there is a solution to not [TS]

  have those tutorials or to have a smooth [TS]

  ramp like Zelda or like you know those [TS]

  are all ways to try to address this [TS]

  issue but although I believe run into [TS]

  the fundamental barrier which is that [TS]

  the skills that these types of games [TS]

  require are just not that common and not [TS]

  easy to learn and sometimes not possible [TS]

  to learn and so I don't know if they're [TS]

  doing a disservice by having smooth ramp [TS]

  maybe maybe if you play the first four [TS]

  dungeons in Zelda you've gotten your [TS]

  money's worth of enjoyment out of that [TS]

  that's another thing I don't like I [TS]

  should have said that the whole idea [TS]

  that there's some money's worth of [TS]

  enjoyment out of games that connection [TS]

  is not what you always hear that though [TS]

  in the game reviews you'll hear people [TS]

  saying oh you know I I this game took [TS]

  and I'm always kind of shocked by the [TS]

  what seems to these expert because I'm [TS]

  by no means an expert player of any game [TS]

  and these games take me way longer to [TS]

  get through then the I guess the people [TS]

  who are playing these games like every [TS]

  day like they have games you know that [TS]

  they just blaze through but you always [TS]

  hear that complain only took me 2 hours [TS]

  and 47 minutes to complete this game I [TS]

  was expecting more for my money you hear [TS]

  that all the time yeah that that [TS]

  relationship between the amount of money [TS]

  you paid and how I and some other thing [TS]

  that you can measure to say whether I [TS]

  got my money's worth out of this thing [TS]

  that's always a weird art of [TS]

  act of the way the game is business [TS]

  worked and the average length of games [TS]

  and how much money it cost to produce a [TS]

  game is this conglomeration of events [TS]

  leads to people who are not very [TS]

  thoughtful deciding that X number of [TS]

  dollars equals X number of time to [TS]

  complete the game by by an expert gamer [TS]

  and what Y time is you know like that's [TS]

  I guess that's all they have to go by [TS]

  how many hours did it take you to [TS]

  complete how much money did you pay I [TS]

  will divide those numbers and tell you [TS]

  you know a ratio and this ratio was [TS]

  unsatisfying makes no sense to me [TS]

  whatsoever because like it doesn't [TS]

  happen in you know in in other media [TS]

  I guess maybe because it like for [TS]

  example movies originally around two [TS]

  hours but no one comes out of a [TS]

  90-minute movie that was awesome and [TS]

  says well the movie was awesome but for [TS]

  the amount of money I bought that ticket [TS]

  I really think it should have been a [TS]

  full two hours if it's an awesome [TS]

  90-minute movie it's an awesome [TS]

  90-minute movie right and the same token [TS]

  if it's a three hour movie that sucks [TS]

  you're like oh my god it was a three [TS]

  hour movie I could not think that it was [TS]

  horrible like it has to be it has to be [TS]

  a limit to that there has to be like if [TS]

  a game only takes an average player an [TS]

  hour to finish that there's probably a [TS]

  lot of people who would be disappointed [TS]

  even if it was an amazing hour right it [TS]

  depends on how amazing an hour is again [TS]

  I'll point to journey journey journey as [TS]

  a game took me two hours to complete and [TS]

  yeah it only cost $15 I would have [TS]

  gladly paid way more than that because [TS]

  there are so many games that I can buy [TS]

  for 50 or 60 dollars that will take me [TS]

  10 20 hours to complete that I would not [TS]

  enjoy you know one thousandth as much as [TS]

  I enjoyed journey and that's what the [TS]

  measurement I get out of it is like it [TS]

  these things do cost a certain amount of [TS]

  money and you're spending your your [TS]

  entertainment budget on this thing and [TS]

  my view is if I spent that same amount [TS]

  of money on some other activity would I [TS]

  would I have gotten more enjoyment out [TS]

  of it and that other activity isn't [TS]

  necessarily buying another game that's [TS]

  the one they always do it's like well I [TS]

  spent $60 on this and it was only four [TS]

  hours long and so I'm mad it's like okay [TS]

  so if you had spent at $60 aren't [TS]

  different in the game would you have [TS]

  gotten more enjoyment out of that 20 [TS]

  hour game then you go to the out of this [TS]

  program maybe you would have maybe it's [TS]

  just because it's not a good game but [TS]

  does it have anything to do with the [TS]

  length particularly I don't think it [TS]

  does I've never made that connection if [TS]

  anything you know [TS]

  as you get older it contends to be the [TS]

  reverse where you're like am I going to [TS]

  put in 70 hours into a 70 hour game like [TS]

  Zelda am I going to really get 70 hours [TS]

  worth of enjoyment out of that and many [TS]

  people decide that no I can't put like [TS]

  in a moment for my thing it's like mmo's [TS]

  I think I might enjoy mmo's but I mean a [TS]

  I've got the the RSI issue which a [TS]

  couple readers brought up where there's [TS]

  like a physical limit and then B the [TS]

  amount of time investment than an MMO [TS]

  takes to really get the best out of it [TS]

  if you just don't have that kind of time [TS]

  that would not be a wise investment of [TS]

  your sixty dollars you'd be better off [TS]

  buying a four hour game for $60 because [TS]

  you wouldn't enjoy that MMO because of [TS]

  the amount of time you have to put in a [TS]

  need to be like Oh stealing time from [TS]

  your other activities that you could be [TS]

  doing other things that you'll be [TS]

  sleeping you know neglecting family [TS]

  obligations or if you just simply don't [TS]

  have time in your schedule you paid $60 [TS]

  for what for more stress and aggravation [TS]

  in your life and never getting to the [TS]

  real enjoyment so I this is not I think [TS]

  that the enlightened more enlightened [TS]

  game reviewers know this is ridiculous [TS]

  but even they have to catch themselves [TS]

  for like you know judging games based on [TS]

  well this game wasn't great but it's [TS]

  only $15 game and well this game was $60 [TS]

  and I really enjoyed every second of it [TS]

  but it was only ten hours long or nine [TS]

  hours long and really they should be 12 [TS]

  or 15 why because like the average [TS]

  length of a $60 game in the year 2000 [TS]

  and X is 12 hours long some of the time [TS]

  points out that the other thing is like [TS]

  you know not everyone completes games I [TS]

  would love to know the percentage of [TS]

  people who complete games maybe you'll [TS]

  buy a game and just play it a little bit [TS]

  and get what they think is it a reason [TS]

  about a drum and a doorstop or they get [TS]

  frustrated because they stop or you know [TS]

  whatever reason but game reviewers in [TS]

  general still feel that they need to [TS]

  complete a game and I think that is a [TS]

  reasonable thing to say and so they're [TS]

  the ones who are saying they're the ones [TS]

  who are playing the games to completion [TS]

  so they can tell you about how the game [TS]

  ends or whatever or give some sort of [TS]

  judgment on the ending of the game and [TS]

  they're the ones constantly knowing okay [TS]

  well this game took this many hours to [TS]

  complete and you know and the average [TS]

  changes over time I don't know what the [TS]

  average length of games was 1020 years [TS]

  ago but I guarantee it's different than [TS]

  what it is now again let's do with [TS]

  budgets and how much money it takes to [TS]

  make one hour with the game play I know [TS]

  high-definition 3d game versus how much [TS]

  it did to make the same amount of time [TS]

  on you know an NES or something this is [TS]

  quite an aside but [TS]

  maybe I maybe I'll save this for a [TS]

  separate thing the state of game [TS]

  criticism there are probably much better [TS]

  people to talk about this than I have [TS]

  that I you know because I'm not a [TS]

  professional game reviewer but I've got [TS]

  an opinion alright so I did have it I [TS]

  did have another topic rattling around [TS]

  in here yeah we could probably do it [TS]

  quickly I was debating not doing any [TS]

  notes for this topic but because it's a [TS]

  visual based one I said what if I just [TS]

  didn't write anything whatever just you [TS]

  know wing it on the show you know kind [TS]

  of the way you encourage Merlin to or [TS]

  you think if the shows are better if you [TS]

  don't notes but you know predictably I [TS]

  wrote a bunch of notes [TS]

  well maybe I'll maybe I'll try not to [TS]

  look at them so this topic is the new [TS]

  gmail user interface you don't do not [TS]

  use the Gmail web interface never never [TS]

  never never never I think it's awful III [TS]

  mean I have used it in absolute [TS]

  emergency situations you have a gmail [TS]

  account then right [TS]

  I have several gmail accounts which I [TS]

  never never really used their sort of [TS]

  junk mail [TS]

  things from the days before I had better [TS]

  ways to deal with junk mail vestige [TS]

  vestige ill things from a bygone era [TS]

  what do you use your email hosting then [TS]

  unfortunately I use Google Apps but I'm [TS]

  in the process of switching away from it [TS]

  but I never use the Gmail provided style [TS]

  interface for that I just use IMAP and I [TS]

  use mail app for my email client and I [TS]

  also use mail app on the on the iPhone [TS]

  for that as well but I'm in the process [TS]

  of moving away from that because I don't [TS]

  I don't want to use any Google services [TS]

  anymore this is something that comes up [TS]

  people ask me about a lot it both in [TS]

  real life and over email and stuff what [TS]

  what should I do about email it's mostly [TS]

  nerds asking that because regular people [TS]

  just use whatever that email address [TS]

  they got 10 years ago and never changed [TS]

  it right and my answer is not to do what [TS]

  I do it's to do what I wanted to do my [TS]

  answer if you are a nerd and you want to [TS]

  solve your email problems from for all [TS]

  my current advice that and spend this [TS]

  way for a long time is to buy yourself a [TS]

  domain name that you're happy with [TS]

  having as your email address forever [TS]

  just the domain name not you know [TS]

  hosting or an email right [TS]

  and then forward that email address at [TS]

  that domain name to a series of [TS]

  different backends so you would forward [TS]

  that email to Gmail and Google out of [TS]

  business or starts being evil sending [TS]

  you forwarded to some other video email [TS]

  provider then you buy you buy some [TS]

  hosting free mail and you're forwarding [TS]

  the whole idea is to to loosely couple [TS]

  your email address from the service you [TS]

  used to provide it that way you'd never [TS]

  have to tell people oh my email address [TS]

  has changed you know I'm moving to a [TS]

  different provider or whatever biz your [TS]

  email address will always put the rest [TS]

  of your life until the domain name [TS]

  system crumbles and they take the name [TS]

  away from you or whatever be whatever [TS]

  your name is at whatever your domain you [TS]

  pick calm or GERD or net or whatever [TS]

  that's the correct solution to email and [TS]

  then all you're left with is okay what [TS]

  back in do want to use who gives me the [TS]

  the best product for the right amount of [TS]

  money with ads without ads IMAP you know [TS]

  you can you can shop around change [TS]

  providers and it doesn't provide just a [TS]

  disruption to your life this is still a [TS]

  pretty nerdy solution because regular [TS]

  people aren't going to buy nominate [TS]

  domains and really we don't need them to [TS]

  because every domain is taken already [TS]

  anyway we don't need more contention to [TS]

  the domains but that is what I would [TS]

  have done if I then from be able to find [TS]

  the domain name that I found acceptable [TS]

  you may you if you are a nerd may also [TS]

  have this problem that you are [TS]

  SuperDuper picky about what things are [TS]

  named and then you may end up deadlock [TS]

  like I am frustrated by your inability [TS]

  to gather domain names you want and [TS]

  never finding one that you like so that [TS]

  this the curse of being a obsessive [TS]

  compulsive nerd so I'm not doing that [TS]

  I'm just using Gmail but I actually do [TS]

  use the Gmail web interface partially [TS]

  that's because my favorite client-side a [TS]

  web interface we used to be Claire his [TS]

  email er and then that teams kind of [TS]

  moved to Microsoft and made the first [TS]

  versions of Entourage for classic Mac OS [TS]

  I like those and then maca was tending [TS]

  came along and entourage got worse on [TS]

  Mac OS 10 and kind of continued to get [TS]

  worse and then it was replaced with [TS]

  Outlook which is much much worse and so [TS]

  my favorite client-side email apps [TS]

  basically left me like they're still [TS]

  there and I still use them I use them to [TS]

  have a client-side copy of every single [TS]

  in my email as messages in fact I do [TS]

  have multiple clients just to have super [TS]

  redundant ultra local backed up backup [TS]

  of my email so that if Google goes away [TS]

  tomorrow I should only lose like a day's [TS]

  worth of locally [TS]

  like uh but I use the web interface most [TS]

  of the time and I actually like Google's [TS]

  web interface first I didn't because it [TS]

  was weird and I'd never used it none [TS]

  like I'm just going to stick to my [TS]

  client-side thing but slowly I came [TS]

  around to just basically through sheer [TS]

  ubiquity and having things synced up and [TS]

  the reason I think I've run out how the [TS]

  shows but the main reason I like it is [TS]

  all the other email services that I had [TS]

  did not have a good representation of [TS]

  server-side rules and I get tons of [TS]

  email and I have tons of rules to sort [TS]

  it into different places and do [TS]

  different actions on it and stuff and [TS]

  having all those rules centralized [TS]

  eliminated this hassle that I always had [TS]

  which was when I use the client side app [TS]

  duplicating the rules in different [TS]

  places or not duplicating them or [TS]

  keeping them in sync and stuff like that [TS]

  and so I you know it wasn't kind of a [TS]

  conscious decision I just kind of [TS]

  drifted over to Gmail first I was [TS]

  running both of them for a while and [TS]

  then I found I was not launching my [TS]

  local client and then just now I'm [TS]

  completely on Gmail so I'm a heavy user [TS]

  of Gmail and yes the chatroom I have [TS]

  tried mail plane and sparrow and those [TS]

  other things so far none of them have [TS]

  pulled me away from the web interface [TS]

  now the visit what we're talking about [TS]

  this new UI it's basically like a new [TS]

  skin like they didn't change the [TS]

  application dramatically but it looks [TS]

  very different and this new skin for [TS]

  Gmail has been in testing for a long [TS]

  time I might even be over a year like [TS]

  and there is apparently there was you [TS]

  could I guess the the days of being able [TS]

  to use the old one Arkham you're saying [TS]

  are completely gone now so everybody has [TS]

  to use this now they're completely gone [TS]

  I think it's like so here was the [TS]

  sequence it was like hey you're a gmail [TS]

  user and we're trying out this new look [TS]

  like it's a little pop-up when you [TS]

  logged in if you want to try the new [TS]

  look click over here and you know being [TS]

  president I'm I immediately clicked and [TS]

  checked it out and I didn't like it and [TS]

  the next phase was you'd log in and [TS]

  you'd have the new look and you'd be [TS]

  like whoa look you know that you know [TS]

  that why do I have this this is that [TS]

  thing that I didn't like from before and [TS]

  it looks a little bit different but I [TS]

  still don't like it and you go to the [TS]

  setting menus and you'd see like change [TS]

  back to the old book but they always say [TS]

  change back to the old book temporarily [TS]

  and they would never tell you what [TS]

  temporarily meant but it was clear that [TS]

  they were saying to you like alright [TS]

  we'll give you the option to change back [TS]

  to the old interface but this is [TS]

  temporary and eventually you're gonna [TS]

  have to take it and lo and behold for me [TS]

  a couple of weeks ago [TS]

  maybe was just last week that option [TS]

  disappear I logged in I got the new [TS]

  interface went to the settings menu and [TS]

  it and the little thing that used to be [TS]

  there that says revert to the old book [TS]

  temporarily was gone and you know I knew [TS]

  this time was coming that's what the [TS]

  word temporarily means and so I have to [TS]

  just you know bite the bullet and you [TS]

  know for awhile I tried to keep the web [TS]

  browser that had thee had the old Gmail [TS]

  looks still on it not ever closed that [TS]

  window [TS]

  but then I accidentally I accidentally [TS]

  did a Google Chrome update like in one [TS]

  morning when I went into work I just [TS]

  tweeted about that did you know when you [TS]

  did that I have made the little icon [TS]

  that said you know update Chrome and [TS]

  then as it's every star I'm like no [TS]

  they're a bunch of hacks out there to [TS]

  try to get the old look back but at this [TS]

  point I'm like you know I don't I'm not [TS]

  gonna fight it this is the look this is [TS]

  what I have to deal with so when I saw [TS]

  the original look it was like try out a [TS]

  new look check it out the the first [TS]

  complaint right off the bat from almost [TS]

  everybody who used it who was like a [TS]

  hardcore gmail user was did the [TS]

  information density had decreased [TS]

  drastically the like you know try it [TS]

  you're looking all of a sudden your [TS]

  screen they used to be able to fit 50 [TS]

  messages on it now if it's like 20 and [TS]

  that's not good if you get a lot of [TS]

  email you know they put a lot of white [TS]

  space and pet it out or whatever and I [TS]

  didn't like that and then they had [TS]

  options like say okay well that's the [TS]

  new look but you can have a you know the [TS]

  the compact version or the comfortable [TS]

  version or the cozy version all sorts of [TS]

  spacing adjustments to try to give you [TS]

  preferences which to an Apple user it's [TS]

  like look if you have to provide 20 [TS]

  different options for how you I should [TS]

  look maybe there's something wrong with [TS]

  your UI but on the other hand as a tech [TS]

  nerd you're like well thank god these [TS]

  options are here because then it's less [TS]

  hideous than it was and I remember when [TS]

  they first rolled the thing out even the [TS]

  tightest setting was still way too wide [TS]

  for me so I just said I'm not going to [TS]

  look at that for a while [TS]

  I'll change back to the old bucket [TS]

  hopefully they'll dress that around the [TS]

  same time I guess this must have been [TS]

  maybe was at this but this was 2008 I [TS]

  hope I'm around his name right this is [TS]

  someone whose blog I read all the time [TS]

  and I realized that I've never said his [TS]

  name to anyone [TS]

  koi VIN do you know who he is now close [TS]

  in the he's quite a well-known designer [TS]

  has little Batman as his avatar Adam [TS]

  West yes did your cat x work apparently [TS]

  very quite quite a smart smart guy [TS]

  as a successful iOS app unders uh [TS]

  there's belt - yeah he was the I don't [TS]

  know what his title was but he was [TS]

  basically like the web the head web [TS]

  designer dude at the New York Times [TS]

  which is quite a position and he led [TS]

  there they're sort of you know the big [TS]

  changes and what their web present was [TS]

  blenny left to go is do his own thing [TS]

  but I've been reading his blog at [TS]

  subtraction calm for a long time and in [TS]

  2008 he had a post that was pleading [TS]

  with Google people at gmail like you [TS]

  know the Gmail UI like it doesn't have [TS]

  to be this ugly like he just took the [TS]

  exact page the way it was laid out and [TS]

  said if you just use some basic sensible [TS]

  design parameters for line spacing and [TS]

  lining things up and you know just just [TS]

  realign stuff it would look so much [TS]

  better so I made a link to this post in [TS]

  the show notes you should take a look [TS]

  he's got a mouse-over thing where if you [TS]

  roll your mouse over it shows here's the [TS]

  2008 Gmail as it exactly is this and [TS]

  then take your mouse out and here's his [TS]

  revised version and all it is is spacing [TS]

  tweaks tiny tiny spacing tweaks but I [TS]

  maybe this is a good litmus test to see [TS]

  are you kind of like a designer every [TS]

  type of nerd but if you look at the two [TS]

  and you're like yeah I can't you know [TS]

  better or worse are the same they're [TS]

  like whatever they're the same thing but [TS]

  to me his version is just like ah like a [TS]

  breath of fresh air compared to the [TS]

  other version it just looks hideous [TS]

  right so I think since that time in the [TS]

  old Gmail UI Google did adjust their [TS]

  spacing and try to make things better [TS]

  they were always constantly tweaking [TS]

  their UI so it seems like they took some [TS]

  of that the heart whether they read it [TS]

  or not you know they got better [TS]

  designers to to space things out but the [TS]

  new look is is a further realignment I [TS]

  think he would go I would mostly approve [TS]

  the new look in terms of line spacing [TS]

  and stuff like it's a little bit still [TS]

  haphazard but it's much more coherent [TS]

  than the first slapdash version they put [TS]

  up there that totally look like it was [TS]

  laid out by programmers and probably was [TS]

  so now that I'm forced to use this new [TS]

  look here are my complaints about it [TS]

  that now I'm forced to just live with so [TS]

  the information density believe it or [TS]

  not I don't know if it's identical to [TS]

  what it was but it's at the point now [TS]

  where that's not my primary complaint [TS]

  about the thing I'm not saying I can't [TS]

  see as many messages on the screen [TS]

  they've tightened it up a lot and [TS]

  whatever the top level choice is when we [TS]

  look at it [TS]

  I have mine on compact cozy is the next [TS]

  one up and uncomfortable is one spaces [TS]

  it up I don't these names terrible [TS]

  choices they're very technical highly [TS]

  technical names that are not at all open [TS]

  to opinion or anything yeah so so that's [TS]

  not my main complaint so it's good that [TS]

  they address that you know from all the [TS]

  complaints about the first version this [TS]

  is way too big I would have to see a [TS]

  side-by-side comparison with the old one [TS]

  to see if it really is exactly the same [TS]

  density but it's better ah but the main [TS]

  complaint I have with it now and also [TS]

  the complaint I'm seeing from other [TS]

  people I don't know how to express this [TS]

  but visual landmarks are not as [TS]

  prominent like the things that your eyes [TS]

  grab on to if you can imagine your eyes [TS]

  kind of like skittering across the [TS]

  surface and looking for things to grab [TS]

  on to a lot of the familiar signposts [TS]

  have been moved and it's worth pointing [TS]

  out that any time any a pet or our [TS]

  website or anything has a new look [TS]

  there's this knee-jerk reaction to [TS]

  dislike and then reject it because I'll [TS]

  tell it's not like it used to look [TS]

  especially it something like Gmail you [TS]

  look at all the time and you're [TS]

  constantly looking at like looking at [TS]

  subject lines looking at messages to the [TS]

  finding that button to hit reply like [TS]

  just the who moved my cheese things like [TS]

  I was different I just don't like it's [TS]

  different right so you have to totally [TS]

  recognize that that's a thing and [TS]

  examine it and say do I dislike it just [TS]

  because it's different or are there [TS]

  actual problems here and there is aspect [TS]

  of having moved things but I I feel like [TS]

  personally if I after I've used [TS]

  something for a week or so [TS]

  I'm usually willing to go with it I'm [TS]

  the type of person who likes the new [TS]

  shiny version or something and by the [TS]

  way if the new thing is attractive that [TS]

  goes a long way that's why Apple gets [TS]

  away with a lot of stuff where if they [TS]

  give you a totally new version of an [TS]

  application that everything is moved and [TS]

  you totally can't find stuff anymore but [TS]

  man looks really nice that goes a long [TS]

  way to release some among certain class [TS]

  of nerds to letting you accept these [TS]

  problems so I don't particularly like [TS]

  the new look of the new Gmail interface [TS]

  ah so that's not helping me there and so [TS]

  practically speaking the visual landmark [TS]

  thing is even after like a week or more [TS]

  of use I'm finding it difficult for my [TS]

  eyes to follow what's going on [TS]

  so this start with like the message list [TS]

  where you've got this a checkbox and a [TS]

  little star icon a little important tags [TS]

  elements [TS]

  it's not exactly the same place that [TS]

  existed in the other thing they are [TS]

  light gray outlines on either a white or [TS]

  slightly lighter gray background not a [TS]

  lot of contrast and I think that's part [TS]

  of the theme of this UI as like lots of [TS]

  white space not a lot of hard border [TS]

  lines they even have a high contrast [TS]

  theme that tries to crank this up [TS]

  because they realize as an issue of a [TS]

  high contrast one is even more ugly [TS]

  they're trying to not have like lines [TS]

  around everything but the effect is that [TS]

  these elements that used to give you an [TS]

  anchoring port for each kind of like [TS]

  message are just that they're so faded [TS]

  that I can imagine like people might not [TS]

  even be able to see them like if your [TS]

  eyesight is not that good the worst one [TS]

  for me you should actually you should [TS]

  pull up the Gmail interface if you [TS]

  haven't already so you can look at this [TS]

  and tell me if I'm crazy just just pull [TS]

  up one of your alright and go to the [TS]

  compact mode this might be difficult to [TS]

  see you might have to label some [TS]

  messages but I since I do all the [TS]

  sorting of email and everything I've got [TS]

  labels on like every compact mode [TS]

  enabled yeah and do you have like [TS]

  messages with labels they might just all [TS]

  say inbox go to the all-male view and [TS]

  you might just see a bunch of things to [TS]

  say inbox but if you could label stuff [TS]

  as other random stuff the labels which I [TS]

  I use labels and everything and I didn't [TS]

  realize how much I rely them and [TS]

  visually to see where things are I tend [TS]

  not to color my labels I have a few [TS]

  colored labels but I don't want to look [TS]

  like a Christmas tree right so most of [TS]

  my labels are just the default whatever [TS]

  color too jarring if you use the colors [TS]

  yeah it's just too much I want that like [TS]

  I want color to be an emphasis for [TS]

  things that should stand out not just [TS]

  for me not the PAR stuff but the default [TS]

  color for the labels it looks to me like [TS]

  a film negative it looks to me like when [TS]

  you did like control option you know [TS]

  command shift 8 when you do the invert [TS]

  screen likes keyboard shortcut or Mac OS [TS]

  they look reversed to me it looks [TS]

  negative and my I just just cannot parse [TS]

  like the darker gray text inside the [TS]

  slightly lighter gray outline inside the [TS]

  slightly lighter gray line item for the [TS]

  message ah it literally hurts my eyes to [TS]

  look at my labels then I don't I can't [TS]

  maybe a designer can tell me why is it [TS]

  these things bother they they almost [TS]

  flip and invert in my mind maybe I have [TS]

  a visual impairment or something but I [TS]

  just cannot see them and every time I I [TS]

  comes over to that section [TS]

  the thing it just I don't know it's like [TS]

  it's not like a spotlight shining at me [TS]

  it's like something it's visually [TS]

  offensive it like bothers my eyes and it [TS]

  makes me not be able to read what those [TS]

  things are it's struggle and it's ice [TS]

  trainee and it just it looks inverted to [TS]

  me I would love for someone who knows [TS]

  something about visual science to look [TS]

  at the Gmail enterprise and say what why [TS]

  does this remind me of a film negative [TS]

  why does it look inverted I because I [TS]

  couldn't tell you maybe it's because the [TS]

  the contrast ratio between the [TS]

  background on the foreground is not [TS]

  sufficient or that if I if I did really [TS]

  did invert it it would be a more [TS]

  familiar kind of contrast I don't I [TS]

  don't even know but this is really the [TS]

  combination of this lack of visual [TS]

  landmarks and the section that I can't [TS]

  even look at because it hurts my eyes is [TS]

  making it harder for me to latch on to [TS]

  where things are in the interface like [TS]

  looking at individual messages or [TS]

  looking at what new things have come [TS]

  stuff like that [TS]

  and this continues onto the the [TS]

  conversation view where it shows that [TS]

  the threaded email message like kind of [TS]

  collapsed up like an accordion there [TS]

  used to be very distinct kind of pleats [TS]

  in the accordion from a collapse message [TS]

  in one message on top of the other and [TS]

  they again they crank down the contrast [TS]

  and everything it faded everything out [TS]

  to the point where when I see a long [TS]

  message thread with things expanded or [TS]

  collapsed it's very difficult for me to [TS]

  see where one message ends and another [TS]

  begins and latch on to where the name of [TS]

  the person is and the different fields [TS]

  and the messages and stuff like that [TS]

  just kind of like all blends together [TS]

  into this big white thing that I don't [TS]

  like and it makes parsing conversations [TS]

  more difficult when I'm looking up to [TS]

  see how many messages there are whether [TS]

  it was a particular message lots and [TS]

  lots of low contrast in lines and I [TS]

  think they're trying to do it to get rid [TS]

  of visual noise and trying to form it [TS]

  with whitespace instead but they're [TS]

  they're doing it wrong I think I think [TS]

  when you if you want to make an [TS]

  interface that's defined by whitespace [TS]

  you still need bold things [TS]

  demarking the space you can't just have [TS]

  a big giant sea of medium graves with [TS]

  slightly darker and slightly lighter [TS]

  things in them because it just all kind [TS]

  of blends together and there are [TS]

  functional aspects to like a lot of [TS]

  times I want to like sort of expand the [TS]

  header to see more information about the [TS]

  sender and they buried lots of stuff [TS]

  under like little pop-up menus they're [TS]

  not easy to discover and annoying to [TS]

  click on to see like what if I just want [TS]

  to see more information about this I [TS]

  find myself doing the view original SiC [TS]

  and just look like [TS]

  the actual male headers to get myself a [TS]

  fighting chance of getting this [TS]

  information similar changes up in the [TS]

  top bar where these have all the buttons [TS]

  to like refresh your mail or perform [TS]

  actions they did the Apple thing I've [TS]

  ever done in iPhoto 11 rant but I should [TS]

  probably add that somewhere before they [TS]

  fix it or make it worse maybe I'll I had [TS]

  a second rant to it they buried lots of [TS]

  controls that used to be top level [TS]

  controls under like a more menu and I [TS]

  guess they're doing that for visual [TS]

  neatness but I'd never think that's a [TS]

  good idea to just bury everything under [TS]

  a single thing and the second thing I do [TS]

  is they they want it did not look [TS]

  cluttered and normally use so lots of [TS]

  options don't even appear until you [TS]

  select a message and do the checkbox and [TS]

  then all of sudden the navigation [TS]

  changes and so it means that the options [TS]

  available to you in the toolbar are [TS]

  constantly changing and shifting so the [TS]

  button for one thing might not be in the [TS]

  same place because it gets shipped like [TS]

  the more menu for example when you have [TS]

  a message selected the more menu is over [TS]

  like three inches from when it's not [TS]

  selected and that kind of things jumping [TS]

  around bothers me they also changed all [TS]

  by default change the toolbar buttons to [TS]

  be images instead of text and initially [TS]

  I'm like you can't tell what the images [TS]

  are because like the images for archive [TS]

  is like a silhouette of a box with an [TS]

  arrow going down on it and then reports [TS]

  spam is a octagon with an exclamation [TS]

  point in it like a stop sign exomesh [TS]

  more these are all gray by the way of [TS]

  course they're great they're not helpful [TS]

  and a delete button I guess is a trash [TS]

  can that kind of reads and the label one [TS]

  looks like a tag but the two choices for [TS]

  archive and report spam are not obvious [TS]

  buttons and as soon as you mouse over [TS]

  them you get a little tooltip you know [TS]

  you get the mystery meat navigation or [TS]

  whatever but that is the case where the [TS]

  when I started using it a like where the [TS]

  hell's the archive button because I hit [TS]

  archive a lot [TS]

  where-where's but where is the archive [TS]

  button and you know I use keyboard [TS]

  shortcuts for a lot in Gmail people ask [TS]

  me how I can manage to use Gmail most of [TS]

  the time using kind of like a VI user [TS]

  but certain functions for whatever [TS]

  reason I haven't ever assigned keyboard [TS]

  shortcuts to why do I not have archive [TS]

  is a I see it do they actually do [TS]

  anything yeah that actually does archive [TS]

  I don't know why I don't hit it don't [TS]

  know why I go to the archive button but [TS]

  but I find myself doing it same thing [TS]

  was reported as spam a lot of things I [TS]

  have keyboard shortcuts but a lot of [TS]

  things I don't for whatever reason and I [TS]

  would go for the button and I'd have to [TS]

  wait for the tooltip to appear you know [TS]

  I [TS]

  there's nothing infuriates me more than [TS]

  having to put my mouse over something [TS]

  and wait for the tools it to come up to [TS]

  see what the help of thing does because [TS]

  seriously like what's going on here [TS]

  that's not the way a UI should work I [TS]

  have found that over the week and a half [TS]

  of use my brain is starting to learn [TS]

  what the symbols mean and it's happening [TS]

  less and there is an option to change [TS]

  all those two texts I tried that I'm [TS]

  like well maybe you know let me just get [TS]

  rid of these inscrutable pictures and [TS]

  put and replace text labels which is [TS]

  what they used to be there used to be [TS]

  like buttons like actual native buttons [TS]

  and then they change to like those fake [TS]

  native buttons that they can do whether [TS]

  you can style buttons inside a web [TS]

  browser to childhood consistent across [TS]

  platforms blah blah blah I change it to [TS]

  the text where the text was worse and [TS]

  then I found myself reading the text I'm [TS]

  like why am i reading this text I never [TS]

  read the text before I think it's [TS]

  because the buttons move around more and [TS]

  I feel more discomfort about I have to [TS]

  read it to make sure I'm clicking the [TS]

  right button whereas before I don't [TS]

  think I was reading the text I think it [TS]

  was just jamming my mouse cursor up to [TS]

  the archive button because it was always [TS]

  in the same place in the same context [TS]

  maybe it's still in the same place and I [TS]

  just haven't learned that place I don't [TS]

  know but I ended up changing back to [TS]

  icons so I would call that a wash so far [TS]

  and I think the main problem the icons [TS]

  is just the images themselves aren't [TS]

  great the idea of icons I think is okay [TS]

  especially since people like me should [TS]

  really be using the keyboard shortcuts [TS]

  for everything and I mostly do so it's [TS]

  just kind of like a deficiency in my own [TS]

  workflow where certain functions for [TS]

  various reasons have not ended up [TS]

  becoming programmed into my fingers as [TS]

  keyboard shortcuts and by the way I [TS]

  mentioned because I said that's like VI [TS]

  users I mean these keyboard shortcuts [TS]

  are single letter presses like the same [TS]

  way I reading that newswire or you know [TS]

  used to read Usenet using tin Gmail can [TS]

  work the same way I think that's one of [TS]

  the reasons the power users like it and [TS]

  that desktop clients are starting to [TS]

  emulate that say oh you can use all your [TS]

  Gmail keyboard shortcuts on our desktop [TS]

  client that's that's kind of a strange [TS]

  turn of events where a desktop piece of [TS]

  software is trying to lure people from [TS]

  the web thing by giving them the [TS]

  interface that they're used to like in [TS]

  other words the web interface has user [TS]

  experience advantages that the desktop [TS]

  thing must at least match and provide [TS]

  because if you don't it's not as good so [TS]

  what else about this UI I can at the end [TS]

  of my notes here when you look at it is [TS]

  there anything that jumps out as you as [TS]

  evil I know you don't to use the web [TS]

  interface at all but well I'm [TS]

  you know I was never a fan of the old [TS]

  one and to me not not being a extreme [TS]

  maybe you're an extreme user not being [TS]

  an extreme user this thing I look at it [TS]

  and I think you know looks fine it's not [TS]

  a lot of color it's kind of an anemic [TS]

  looking interface overall I don't like [TS]

  the way that they do the tags either [TS]

  that seems like they're kind of in the [TS]

  way what I don't what I see as tags are [TS]

  actually how I've organized things in [TS]

  our labels rather how I've organized [TS]

  them in in folders on the Mac in the Mac [TS]

  client but it's good you know I mean [TS]

  it's weird because there's this very [TS]

  minimalist vibe to it but it doesn't [TS]

  quite get it does that make sense yeah I [TS]

  best my facts I think they're going for [TS]

  they want I mean but what doesn't but [TS]

  they didn't get it that did they didn't [TS]

  get it that when you when you go for a [TS]

  minimalistic approach what you're [TS]

  supposed to be doing is you're supposed [TS]

  to be taking the things that are the [TS]

  essentials and putting them first and [TS]

  foremost making sure you can do those [TS]

  and then letting more advanced actions [TS]

  it's you know making them findable and [TS]

  being able to explore them gracefully [TS]

  and there's nothing that's even [TS]

  appropriate for them like it's like it's [TS]

  like a Photoshop came out it said we're [TS]

  gonna go for a minimal interface and the [TS]

  you I look like the UI for acorn or [TS]

  something that's not what Photoshop is [TS]

  about right a male for good or for ill [TS]

  is like this big honkin thing with lots [TS]

  of features so maybe your approach [TS]

  shouldn't be like sparrow is minimalist [TS]

  right right oh yeah that's what you go [TS]

  with it's like there's the subject line [TS]

  like you just really boiled down Steve [TS]

  Jobs style to just what you need but [TS]

  people would have been even more pissed [TS]

  if Gmail did that because that's just [TS]

  like that's not their customer base [TS]

  Gmail is a full-featured lots and stuff [TS]

  so given if you're not going to change [TS]

  the entire nature of the product which I [TS]

  don't think they should because that [TS]

  would just make people even more angry [TS]

  your strategy should be one that fits [TS]

  with your complicated piece of software [TS]

  the strategy for making the Photoshop UI [TS]

  better is not to make it look like the [TS]

  acorn UI is that's just not that's just [TS]

  not the way it is it's not the same kind [TS]

  of application and so it's like they [TS]

  want to have the cake and eat it too [TS]

  they were like well we keep we keep it [TS]

  every single feature right maybe we hide [TS]

  a little bit more under these little [TS]

  hidden menus to reduce visual clutter [TS]

  and use all these tricks but no we can't [TS]

  give up the labels and we can't give up [TS]

  the stars or the important tags or the [TS]

  little checkboxes all the actions you do [TS]

  or the menu at the top or you know they [TS]

  did hide contacts can see if you can [TS]

  figure out how to get your contacts if [TS]

  you're in the web UI took me a good eye [TS]

  already supposed I already closed it [TS]

  down you can make me go back to yeah you [TS]

  got to go back to go get the contacts [TS]

  then first of all the idea that contacts [TS]

  is not since tan look in it it's like [TS]

  context Google com like that's not where [TS]

  context live the contacts are part of [TS]

  Gmail and Gmail does an awful job of [TS]

  managing them and I hate it maybe that's [TS]

  a whole other show huh but you know go [TS]

  find content I'm the one looking aqua [TS]

  search not chat it's not circles I was [TS]

  doing find find you know find in your [TS]

  web browser for the text contacts right [TS]

  which I have frequency it okay it's up [TS]

  in the top bar under more contact right [TS]

  is that where you found it that's I see [TS]

  translate mobile books offers wallet [TS]

  shopping blogger reader finance well [TS]

  again I'm using I'm using the Google [TS]

  Apps version ah I might be different [TS]

  maybe it is different at the bottom of [TS]

  my more menu is an item called [TS]

  even more that makes it front that makes [TS]

  me like somewhere is pretty bad user [TS]

  interface designer is weeping quietly in [TS]

  a corner no pretty miss you're missing [TS]

  the point [TS]

  you're more menu hasn't even more item [TS]

  maybe maybe contacts is under you [TS]

  anymore but where I found contacts was [TS]

  underneath the Google logo you see the [TS]

  word Gmail in red yes well now I'm well [TS]

  I did down triangle I did when I logged [TS]

  out of my of my actual like Google Apps [TS]

  version of Gmail and going into the [TS]

  actual the actual Gmail I see something [TS]

  that is somewhat different yeah so the [TS]

  Gmail thing has the little turning down [TS]

  triangle that indicates to you that as a [TS]

  pop-up menu or indicates someone who [TS]

  knows and that's the only indication [TS]

  that tiny little triangle and then [TS]

  underneath there you see contacts and [TS]

  tasks yeah took me a while to find that [TS]

  not good I don't the other thing I want [TS]

  to complain about is that this is to [TS]

  route so you can tell this to look for [TS]

  Gmail is a company-wide visual [TS]

  realignment which I applaud the idea of [TS]

  doing that instead of just letting [TS]

  everyone do what they want right just so [TS]

  happens there are realigning under a [TS]

  look and style that I don't like and [TS]

  that I feel is not appropriate for their [TS]

  properties and one aspect of it is that [TS]

  the way they indicate a selection is [TS]

  long as they're not doing it maybe even [TS]

  more yeah where's oh there it is all [TS]

  right so the way they indicate the [TS]

  current position of like your like your [TS]

  cursor because you've got you know you [TS]

  can use the K key to move up messages [TS]

  and stuff like that is see if you can [TS]

  trigger this go into a message and then [TS]

  go back and you should see a little blue [TS]

  border on the left side of the message [TS]

  you just went in to write this in yes [TS]

  you can hit the K key and watch it move [TS]

  up that's their indication this is the [TS]

  current message but it's literally two [TS]

  pixels wide yeah it is a two picks and [TS]

  it looks for all the world like a border [TS]

  because it is the border they have made [TS]

  the left-hand border which used to not [TS]

  exist on this thing it just at the [TS]

  background image that went bled right to [TS]

  the edge they made the left-hand border [TS]

  to pixel blue line that is not easy to [TS]

  see that is not obvious it's replacing a [TS]

  greater than sign kind of like carrot [TS]

  type thing you know oh yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  which is a much better indication of [TS]

  like this is the current thing I'm [TS]

  pointing to or highlight would be even [TS]

  better but god forbid they do a [TS]

  highlight because own they had to figure [TS]

  out what all the highlighted versions of [TS]

  all these hideous colors aren't on you [TS]

  want to see what that would look like [TS]

  but this is their this thing this little [TS]

  line is a border it's carried across [TS]

  many properties or that's the way they [TS]

  indicate the currently selected thing [TS]

  and I don't particularly like it [TS]

  visually and I don't think it works that [TS]

  well I think it's not obvious enough [TS]

  yeah so do the themes do the color [TS]

  themes help you at all oh I tried them [TS]

  all I went through all them like some [TS]

  save me themes somehow you have to use [TS]

  their Google Labs thing I tried all the [TS]

  themes all of them are visually more [TS]

  offensive to me yeah a high contrast one [TS]

  like you would think it wasn't that [TS]

  better doesn't it help things it just [TS]

  makes these really thick lines between [TS]

  all the other low contrast I think it [TS]

  makes it worse you don't like the HD [TS]

  themes the wood theme or the desk theme [TS]

  oh do it I don't like seeing a rough [TS]

  wood background behind your I don't need [TS]

  Hello Kitty and I I see people who do [TS]

  that about the Android one my mother has [TS]

  a theme it's like uh like the weather in [TS]

  the background which is kind of neat but [TS]

  I'm like how do you look at that it's [TS]

  like [TS]

  looking at a flea market painting [TS]

  constantly you know sorry my email I [TS]

  don't see like a seascape in the [TS]

  background like the painted Velvet Elvis [TS]

  or something [TS]

  yeah I'm not into these themes it and [TS]

  like they have revised things it is more [TS]

  dense than it used to being they're [TS]

  trying to do this this whole realignment [TS]

  thing it's just it's just not working [TS]

  for me and I find it I find it ugly [TS]

  looking and it's hurting me during the [TS]

  day because is making me less efficient [TS]

  when I do my email stuff and that's what [TS]

  I don't like about it so if I could [TS]

  change back the old one I would but I'm [TS]

  not going to go to heroic links to do so [TS]

  I just hope they caught with better [TS]

  themes or maybe a labs thing or I use [TS]

  Chrome from my gmail so I can't use [TS]

  grease monkey but maybe there's an [TS]

  equivalent you know Chrome extension [TS]

  that'll do it [TS]

  I don't know so we you know it's just [TS]

  deal with change I'll get by but it's [TS]

  real being cranky that's all I got today [TS]

  except for Instagram which will continue [TS]

  to get shoved off it'll be shoved off so [TS]

  long and won't even be relevant anymore [TS]

  even if it is relevant right now which I [TS]

  would question yeah I'll keep I think [TS]

  it'll still be okay to talk about next [TS]

  week okay maybe maybe I'll transfer that [TS]

  interest and opportunity to finally talk [TS]

  about patents with which I've never [TS]

  talked about but not today not today [TS]

  today is not the right day for them yeah [TS]

  okay so we're done then is wait this way [TS]

  we are I believe we are all right well [TS]

  you can go to five by five dot TV slash [TS]

  hypercritical 65 and you will find all [TS]

  of the links that John Syracuse is [TS]

  carefully cataloged and organized just [TS]

  for your reading enjoyment we'd like to [TS]

  say thanks very much to help spot.com [TS]

  makers of the best helpdesk software in [TS]

  the business for subsidizing those links [TS]

  and that's it you can go you can follow [TS]

  John on Twitter s IRAC USA and he [TS]

  promises if you follow him he will [TS]

  follow you back I do not promise that [TS]

  and he will retweet everything you say [TS]

  and I'm Dan Benjamin on Twitter and I [TS]

  think that's it John [TS]

  well something cuz you don't have a blog [TS]

  we can't talk about that you can find me [TS]

  you search for John Syracuse a blog and [TS]

  there's my little I'm so sorry Sarah Q [TS]

  so tumblr comm gets almost one post a [TS]

  year it's a good post I hope so [TS]

  that better be alright everybody thanks [TS]

  for tuning in and we will be back next [TS]

  week same time have a good one you do [TS]

  you [TS]