0:00:00[Music]
0:00:02this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow
0:00:04ruminating on exactly what is wrong in
0:00:06the world of Apple related technologies
0:00:09and businesses nothing is so perfect
0:00:10that it can't be complained about by my
0:00:15co-host John siracusa i'm dan benjamin
0:00:17today is Friday February 17th 2012 this
0:00:21is episode number 55 we would like to
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0:00:32more about them as the show progresses
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0:00:46for very special deals happy Friday to
0:00:49you mr. John siracusa happy Friday to
0:00:53you Dan why thank you
0:00:56have you already begun writing your
0:00:58review of mountain lion didn't we talk
0:01:02about my writing process once I don't
0:01:04begin writing writing but I've begun
0:01:05working towards it because now they have
0:01:08announced they're going to be on a
0:01:10yearly release cycle and what this means
0:01:13is that you are going to be writing 24
0:01:16hours a day seven days a week
0:01:17non-stop and your reviews will will have
0:01:20to because it takes you there to power
0:01:22over a year to write one yeah like that
0:01:24it's not the writing though it's it
0:01:26really begins when I create a note and a
0:01:29tag collection in your Jimbo for the
0:01:32operating system and traditionally I
0:01:33don't do that until I know the the name
0:01:37of the operating system the name of the
0:01:38cat no yes I have I have my mountain
0:01:40lion note it has text in it and yes the
0:01:43process has begun so speaking of the
0:01:47name of the cat you whatever you know
0:01:52you don't even let me do follow-up which
0:01:53I just want to jump right into it but we
0:01:55can do your follow-up of course I just
0:01:57want to but this is the one thing that's
0:01:58it it all comes out of this you had
0:02:02prophesized that lie I heard you say
0:02:06that a Marco show I dis are you not oh
0:02:08no not everybody it listens to Marco
0:02:10show alright god I'm just telling
0:02:11right away already degree you have
0:02:13prophesized that lion being the king of
0:02:18the jungle this this should signify the
0:02:22end of the big cat names because they
0:02:25have reached the biggest of the cats
0:02:27with lion the king of the jungle it's
0:02:30not actually the biggest but yeah the
0:02:31king of the jungle
0:02:32yeah metaphorically speaking the biggest
0:02:34but you're right there is the Thai is
0:02:35the liger biggest I don't know there's
0:02:39some other cat the way is more I think
0:02:41the liger is the biggest anyway you you
0:02:45you believe that this should indicate
0:02:47the end of the cat names we should move
0:02:51on to something else I believe your
0:02:52suggestion was the rodents no that
0:02:55wasn't it
0:02:56or what you know wombat or something but
0:02:59we didn't good didn't mountain lion yeah
0:03:01you want you know that I said it's last
0:03:03time one of the reasons that I actually
0:03:04wished they would get off the cat names
0:03:06ah is that it would be a nice stopping
0:03:10point for me writing his reviews because
0:03:12you would have done all that's like what
0:03:14all the big cats you know now someone
0:03:16else has to take it from here yeah that
0:03:17makes sense
0:03:18room in a natural stopping point all
0:03:20right well anyway I just wanted to
0:03:21mention that and plant that seed in case
0:03:23it was not on your list yeah I didn't I
0:03:26didn't predict that they would I said
0:03:27that they should I don't think they
0:03:28should have but they didn't yeah I guess
0:03:31they don't listen to you and in this
0:03:32show yes shocking one small piece of
0:03:35follow up and then we can get to it okay
0:03:37my apologies for interrupting your
0:03:39planned format but I rant breaker
0:03:43I'm Apollo I apologize had been
0:03:45submitted I have to put this one
0:03:48follow-up in because the this is a link
0:03:52that more listeners sent me than any
0:03:54other link in history of this show
0:03:56it's the link to an article by Timothy
0:03:59Messer Cruz called the undue weight of
0:04:03truth on Wikipedia that I'm used
0:04:05I think people see see you on the tweets
0:04:07too didn't you see this this link about
0:04:09a thousand times yes
0:04:10yeah maybe it seems even longer because
0:04:13we didn't to the show last week so it's
0:04:14got two weeks of people sending this
0:04:15link so I felt compelled that I must put
0:04:18this link in the show notes and briefly
0:04:19discuss it okay this is an article from
0:04:22someone who
0:04:24has a particular interest in a
0:04:25historical event and writes academic
0:04:28papers on it and was in the process of
0:04:29writing a book about it and happened to
0:04:31go to the wikipedia page and saw that
0:04:33there was some information that was not
0:04:34correct on there the main thing he kept
0:04:37found objection with is that the page
0:04:39said that the prosecution didn't offer
0:04:42any evidence connecting the defendants
0:04:44with this this crime that had been
0:04:45committed and he said oh no they totally
0:04:47did and it was it was a long trial they
0:04:48presented lots of evidence and you know
0:04:50I've studied all about it I've written
0:04:51papers about it and I'm writing a book
0:04:53about it now so we corrected it and it
0:04:56got reverted and they said you had to
0:04:59provide reliable sources blah blah blah
0:05:01the whole nine yards Amy says well I I
0:05:02had cited things I cited the Library of
0:05:05Congress and cited some of his own
0:05:08peer-reviewed articles on the topic but
0:05:09they didn't like it and so that was his
0:05:11first encounter with Wikipedia not
0:05:12fulfilling their their citation
0:05:14requirements and the other thing that
0:05:20where the title comes from is that one
0:05:22of the Wikipedians cited the undue
0:05:24weight policy which states and this is a
0:05:26quote from the article although I don't
0:05:27know if it's quote from the policy
0:05:29articles should not give minority views
0:05:32as much or as detailed the description
0:05:33as more popular views so the Wikipedian
0:05:37said you should not delete information
0:05:38supported by the majority of sources to
0:05:40replace it with a minority view so his
0:05:42view that evidence was presented was a
0:05:44minority view because they had tons of
0:05:45sources citing the fact that evidence
0:05:47wasn't presented and the undue weight
0:05:49thing is I mean he's adding the truth
0:05:51part the undo way of truth it's like if
0:05:52every historian says X and you say Y you
0:05:58you can't just delete X and put in your
0:06:00Y even if it's actually true so this guy
0:06:03waited two years until his book on this
0:06:06historical event was published and he
0:06:08said now a-ha now I have a proper
0:06:10Wikipedia leg to stand on because he
0:06:12could cite see his book was published
0:06:13write a book on the topic of his event
0:06:16now he can cite that and so he did a big
0:06:19update citing his own book on the topic
0:06:21and it got reverted again pretty quickly
0:06:24and the Wikipedian says as a by way of
0:06:27explaining why this is reverted if all
0:06:29historians save one say that the sky was
0:06:31green in 1888 our policies require that
0:06:34we write most historians write that the
0:06:35sky was green but one says the sky was
0:06:37blue
0:06:38as individual editors we are not in the
0:06:40business of weighing claims just
0:06:41reporting what reliable sources right
0:06:42and so you should follow the link in the
0:06:45show notes if you want to read this
0:06:46entire article it is a pretty close echo
0:06:49of my experience albeit but much more
0:06:51academic rigor and importance than you
0:06:53know some little thing about the finder
0:06:55and many people sent it to me because
0:06:57it's such a echo what we talked about so
0:06:58so there you go that's my only follow up
0:07:00and I had to say that because the sheer
0:07:02weight of pointers to that article is
0:07:05overwhelming you were you were
0:07:07overwhelmed yes okay that's a nice your
0:07:12only follow that's it and I have one
0:07:15topic right before we get the mountain
0:07:17line which is mountain lion related it
0:07:18actually is a mountain lion topic so
0:07:21someone named Kenneth REITs REI TZ
0:07:25apparently involved in the homebrew
0:07:28project the thing lets you compile UNIX
0:07:29software mac OS 10 without having to
0:07:31deal with all that make files and
0:07:32everything right very handy it's way
0:07:34better than other attempts like Mac
0:07:36ports were at putting this together you
0:07:38install homebrew you type brew space
0:07:40install space and the name of the
0:07:43utility that you want installed it just
0:07:45does it it's genius it's perfect it
0:07:47obfuscates all of the tutorials that I
0:07:50wrote over the many many years on high
0:07:52villages it's a genius I wish they
0:07:54called it something else but it's grown
0:07:55on me and I just edit it obfuscates your
0:07:58articles doesn't obfuscate
0:08:00well mother obviates the need for yeah
0:08:04that's a better way to say it thank you
0:08:05anyway yeah so he was annoyed and
0:08:09several people I can imagine being
0:08:10annoyed by the fact that if you want if
0:08:11you want to do any of this stuff you
0:08:13want to compile software for Mac OS 10
0:08:15you need to have the compiler the Empire
0:08:18is installed by default and the
0:08:20traditional way to install the compiler
0:08:21according to Apple is I'll just install
0:08:22the development right which is like a
0:08:24terabytes of stuff it's like you know
0:08:271.3 gigs worth of Xcode and all the
0:08:30stuff that comes with it and just as
0:08:31huge amount of stuff like geez I just
0:08:32want like GCC in the headers and and
0:08:34though you know it's like you have to
0:08:37download the entire Internet onto your
0:08:38back just to be able to compile you know
0:08:41W get and I mean personally I I found it
0:08:45a little absurd to but I tend to want to
0:08:47have the dev tools because I like being
0:08:48able to just fire up a project or open
0:08:50someone else's source code or whatever
0:08:51for people who aren't into that I can
0:08:52see how it's annoying so he made his own
0:08:54little OS ten GCC installer which was
0:08:57just like let me just rip out the
0:08:59command line parts and wrap that up into
0:09:01an easy to install package so say oh if
0:09:03you just want to use homebrew to like
0:09:04install some little open-source piece of
0:09:07software right you don't need all of
0:09:09xcode just get my little installer was
0:09:10like you know 100 Meg's or something and
0:09:12it will put all that stuff in there and
0:09:13it was a little bit sketchy because
0:09:14there's some files that he couldn't
0:09:16distribute that were part of xcode
0:09:18because because of licensing
0:09:21restrictions you know they weren't GPL
0:09:22then he was mixing with GPL all that
0:09:23stuff so as part of mountain lion
0:09:26actually Apple contacted him and talked
0:09:28to him about that tool and then didn't
0:09:30say anything well and as part of
0:09:31mountain line suddenly Apple has an
0:09:32official command-line tools for Xcode
0:09:35download which is 171 megabytes it's
0:09:37officially from Apple totally supported
0:09:38and if you just want to use homebrew to
0:09:40install some UNIX software you no longer
0:09:42have to download gigabytes of Xcode just
0:09:44go get this free download link is in the
0:09:46show notes and it's directly from Apple
0:09:48and great there's even there's even a
0:09:50supported way now to uninstall the
0:09:52developer tools I'm not sure if this was
0:09:54around before but he's suggesting in the
0:09:57link that in the story that he wrote
0:09:59that you link to that you can and
0:10:02potentially should uninstall the
0:10:05developer tools I'll tell you what I'll
0:10:06tell you where this is this is really
0:10:07useful or I'll tell you who this is
0:10:08useful for and and and why I really am
0:10:11thrilled about this is we use a number
0:10:13of Mac minis behind the scenes for for
0:10:165x5 and I host them over at Mac Mini
0:10:18Colo net and what a pain it is to have
0:10:21to go and install Xcode you know remote
0:10:24to the machine visually install Xcode
0:10:27wait for it to download and all of that
0:10:29stuff when I'm never gonna launch Xcode
0:10:32on a remote Mac Mini I just but I do
0:10:34need it to build a do need to build some
0:10:38of these tools that's a great thing and
0:10:39again for people who have no interest in
0:10:42running Xcode ever maybe their rails
0:10:44developers but they need to install
0:10:46things locally or they wanted you know
0:10:47who knows this is so great and it's so
0:10:50great to see that Apple reached out to
0:10:52the guy and integrated it instead of
0:10:56just doing something like it and you
0:10:59know they involved them it was nice
0:11:04my mute key isn't working in Skype
0:11:06anymore it started like two weeks ago
0:11:07you and Marco both wanting to mute
0:11:09constantly what's going on you have to
0:11:11me asking about the shuttle I have a
0:11:13cold now I'm blowing my nose that just
0:11:14blew my nose hope you didn't hear it no
0:11:16I did menu and do it all right on this
0:11:19line uninstalling the dev tools with
0:11:21that tool from Apple that makes me feel
0:11:22good when they provided tool for because
0:11:24then you expect it to work very hot and
0:11:26there's an interesting reason why you
0:11:27might want to uninstall them because the
0:11:29new way Xcode works which we might get
0:11:31to depending on how we go all right so
0:11:33that's that's Mountain Lion related
0:11:35because that was released at the same
0:11:36time as Mountain Lion so now now I'm
0:11:37lion feels like I just did our Maximus
0:11:41then review doesn't it feel like that it
0:11:43feels like I didn't I just do this I'm
0:11:44still almost recovering yeah some people
0:11:48haven't finished reading it yet it just
0:11:51shows they got to the boring part it's
0:11:53true couldn't recover I got people
0:11:55tweeted me this they must have like you
0:11:56know got to a boring part and stopped
0:11:57reading and just that all go back to
0:11:59some other time and now there's another
0:12:00OS announced yeah where do you want to
0:12:04start with this there's so much ready
0:12:06want to start I have the only thing I
0:12:07definitely do want to talk about is
0:12:08gatekeeper but we can start any place
0:12:11you want ah gatekeeper is probably an
0:12:14excellent place to start if that's where
0:12:16you'd like one thing I would like to ask
0:12:18before that
0:12:19have you tried out messages in in place
0:12:23of iChat I have oh I installed it and
0:12:26played with it a little bit I didn't I
0:12:27haven't been using it using it for I am
0:12:28did you uninstall it no not yet I used
0:12:32it for a day and I uninstalled it and
0:12:34I'll tell you the only reason that I did
0:12:37this I loved the functionality that it
0:12:39brought but there is something that was
0:12:40going on with it there's a little bit a
0:12:42little bit jarring and I'm curious to
0:12:45know if you experienced this because I
0:12:47know you have complained about similar
0:12:51things there's a little there's a little
0:12:53sidebar or if you want to call it a
0:12:54left-hand pane that has a list of the
0:12:57people that you are chatting with if you
0:12:59have multiple chats to three at a time
0:13:02and when you send or receive a new
0:13:05message the person for whom you have
0:13:07communicated just then with that their
0:13:10name which is actually it's relatively
0:13:13tall kind of kind of block on the left
0:13:16hand pane will
0:13:17Lyde up above the other ones and if you
0:13:20happen to be receiving multiple messages
0:13:22at one time or within closed time to
0:13:26each other the this this left-hand pane
0:13:28is constantly shifting and sliding up
0:13:31and up and down and other things moving
0:13:32around and you're like why is this thing
0:13:34moving constantly your click target to
0:13:37pick the person is constantly changing
0:13:40and it's a sort of jarring activity that
0:13:43seems to be happening by itself in a
0:13:46slightly disturbing way at now people
0:13:50have been quick to point out well this
0:13:52is exactly the way that it works on the
0:13:53iPad this is the same way the iMessage
0:13:55app works on the iPad and that's exactly
0:13:58why I don't use it on the iPad because I
0:14:00don't like seeing now it's a little less
0:14:02jarring because of course with
0:14:03everything on iOS it's a full screen app
0:14:05using this in the full screen didn't
0:14:08really solve it it just kind of seemed
0:14:09silly
0:14:09so wondering if you notice that there's
0:14:12no way to turn it off apparently you
0:14:14should I think there's a prep because I
0:14:16recall seeing a preference for reorder
0:14:19the sidebar thing I'm not don't have the
0:14:22messages happen from me now so I can't
0:14:23like were you sure there's not a
0:14:24preference for that I it's certainly
0:14:26possible that I missed it of course I
0:14:28could have missed there you uninstalled
0:14:29it by now see again well it's easy to
0:14:31put it back but I don't have it on the
0:14:33computer anymore because it was going
0:14:35crazy but here's here's the thing I
0:14:37thought that you it was when that
0:14:40sorting menu when I had the thing
0:14:42selected and went to the View menu went
0:14:43to the sort I thought it was for the
0:14:45regular buddy list there wasn't anything
0:14:47in there that I assignment well I should
0:14:49join the chatroom I then see if they're
0:14:51shouting in there of course you can
0:14:53change it they're not he's I don't know
0:14:54how many people have used iMessage but I
0:14:55could swear there was an option in there
0:14:56I'd oh yeah animation like that I don't
0:14:59like seeing things move out of the
0:15:00corner of my eye yeah I don't use I
0:15:02don't use iChat I use a diem for my I am
0:15:05so that's that's why having installed is
0:15:07not going to bother me because I'd never
0:15:09use that but I don't like the UI so far
0:15:11and I know I don't like things
0:15:12integrated into one window I like
0:15:14separate windows for people I like but
0:15:15Adium remembers the size and position of
0:15:17my separate windows yeah you know so I
0:15:20don't think I'll be using that I really
0:15:21what I was really hoping for is that
0:15:22they would break out FaceTime from it
0:15:25they're like oh now finally they're
0:15:27gonna have messages which will just be
0:15:29for text-based things that folds in SM
0:15:31SN aim and jabber and all that other
0:15:33stuff right and then they'll have
0:15:34FaceTime which is clearly the video
0:15:35beside chat was weird because it was
0:15:36like you did video there too but you
0:15:38also have the FaceTime application so
0:15:40you know is this big consolidation of
0:15:41applications that they're doing a
0:15:43mountain line like finally they'll
0:15:44they'll separate stuff out but no it's
0:15:46still this video so I'm confused how
0:15:47messages has anything to do with video
0:15:49or screen sharing but you know baby
0:15:52steps I guess actually before we get to
0:15:55gate keeper I'll talk about two minor
0:15:57topics one is the super weird release
0:16:02experience or at least weird for Apple
0:16:05the idea that there's no no invitation
0:16:08that goes out in the mail with a little
0:16:09picture and some words and press doesn't
0:16:11fly to California and stand in front of
0:16:12people and they get presented instead
0:16:14they call individual people in the media
0:16:16have them come in secret and give them a
0:16:19keynote for one where they do the
0:16:22keynote presentation and you're the only
0:16:24one in the audience yeah I guess I
0:16:25wonder if you feel like you have to
0:16:26applaud like yeah hey good good chop
0:16:28fill but he needs the feedback or just
0:16:30sit there stone-faced with your arms
0:16:32folded
0:16:32but Gruber had a great post about his
0:16:34experience doing that and as far as I
0:16:37know he's the only one who's posted
0:16:38about his experiences doing that and
0:16:40that this is just it's just weird for
0:16:42Apple this is a change in the way that
0:16:44they release things and as Gruber
0:16:46alluded to the obvious question which
0:16:48she was too uncomfortable to ask is you
0:16:51know we're doing things differently now
0:16:53now being like after Steve has gone you
0:16:56don't want to bring that up obviously
0:16:57it's a little insensitive but it it's
0:17:00hard not to make that connection that
0:17:01now apple's decided to do things
0:17:03differently and you know how many years
0:17:06have Steve did we have from 1997 until
0:17:092011 and then he leaves and suddenly the
0:17:11way they do things changes it could just
0:17:12be a natural evolution this was going to
0:17:13happen anyway
0:17:14and it also could just be an experiment
0:17:16that Apple's trying but that totally
0:17:18caught me by surprise that they would
0:17:20not actually have an event for this you
0:17:23know it didn't even get the homepage I
0:17:25didn't even get the Apple comm homepage
0:17:27the iPhone 4 I stayed there the whole
0:17:28time mountain lion just got like one of
0:17:29the three boxes and the bottom so that
0:17:33was very surprising to me a mountain
0:17:37lion itself I think has too many
0:17:40syllables too many syllables too many
0:17:43syllables it is the is there
0:17:45record-holder for the largest number of
0:17:46syllables a big cat name right the
0:17:48previous record-holder was snow leopard
0:17:50with just three mountain minus 4 you
0:17:53could slur together if you want uh but
0:17:56it does doesn't roll off the tongue by
0:17:57but they dropped mac from mac OS so and
0:18:00maybe they have a quote they bought it
0:18:01yeah they had to they have to keep it
0:18:03they had to keep it up
0:18:04it had a limit rather a limit on
0:18:06syllables they were we afford speak over
0:18:08three syllables in the cat name we got a
0:18:09cut one off or I drop the Mac but they
0:18:11were doing that the last time with lion
0:18:12they were doing OS 10 lion all over the
0:18:14place but they were inconsistent some
0:18:15things that Mac some things as I was ten
0:18:17seems like like the marketing department
0:18:20really wanted always ten lion but a lot
0:18:23of the code and the developers you know
0:18:25all over the all over the actual OS
0:18:27itself you could see Mac os10
0:18:28I'll be interesting see a mountain lion
0:18:30if the marketing department puts its
0:18:32foot down with the developers and says
0:18:35every place that this operating system
0:18:37name appears in the operating system
0:18:39itself get rid of the Mac part well they
0:18:40have it is it is official it's been
0:18:42covered in some different places but
0:18:43Nilay Patel friend of mine over at the
0:18:45verge has a little article which I will
0:18:48put into the show notes that he actually
0:18:52here here's what he says there's an
0:18:54equally big change quietly afoot in the
0:18:56Mac the Mac in Mac OS 10 is no more
0:18:59instead Apple's desktop operating system
0:19:01is now simply called OS 10 we confirm
0:19:03the official name change with Apple who
0:19:05told us that the preferred full name is
0:19:08OS 10 mountain lion and a quick look
0:19:11around the company's new mountain lion
0:19:12pages reveals that the tweak is already
0:19:14well in effect that's not to say that
0:19:16the Mac brand has been demoted as it's
0:19:18still used throughout Apple site it
0:19:20appears that Mac is being used to
0:19:21identify hardware products while OS 10
0:19:23refers to the software as with
0:19:25everything else about mountain lion that
0:19:27matches the iOS naming scheme of calling
0:19:28the iPhone and iPad by separate names
0:19:31than the other than the OS etc etc so
0:19:33yeah and that was probably the real
0:19:37policy in line I don't know of anyone
0:19:39who's never asked that but having the
0:19:40policy and actually expunging all the
0:19:42instances of the capital m.a.c from the
0:19:45strings that are part of the operating
0:19:47system are two separate things so we'll
0:19:49see if they get that consistent I
0:19:50seriously speaking what like why did
0:19:52they leave Mac off the is did he say
0:19:56that Apple said that they're trying to
0:19:58leave Mac on
0:19:59for hardware is he just deriving that
0:20:00from the fact that it's still attached
0:20:02to the hardware but not attached to the
0:20:03software I think the latter I think he
0:20:05is that is his what is he reading
0:20:09yeah he's inferring that from what
0:20:10they're saying I think he's probably
0:20:12right and it would make sense but yeah
0:20:16he did I don't think that they told him
0:20:17that yeah I could ask him I think
0:20:20leaving off the Mac oh I'm just
0:20:25speculating just like he was but it
0:20:26strikes me as a recognition that like it
0:20:32or not having a Mac even in this day and
0:20:35age is still there's like a stigma
0:20:37attached like you're not like you don't
0:20:39have a PC you have a Mac and they want
0:20:44the brand of the operating system not to
0:20:46be tied to any of the baggage that might
0:20:50be the bad baggage that comes along with
0:20:52Mac as far as mass market penetration
0:20:54goes like I see it as trying to crank up
0:20:59the glass ceiling on possible Mac
0:21:01ownership because you know iPhone is
0:21:03sound like gangbusters and everything
0:21:04like that but it's like vote my one of
0:21:06my favorite things to think about is
0:21:07what is the glass ceiling on Mac market
0:21:10share in the PC market now it could be
0:21:12just the PC market become so unimportant
0:21:13that who that cares but still now even
0:21:15the Mac growing like crazy and
0:21:17outgrowing the market for you know six
0:21:18years running
0:21:20what are they at like now single-digit
0:21:23percentage is still the PC market maybe
0:21:25double depending on where you're
0:21:26measuring it from I think it's still
0:21:28single but yeah and and you end so maybe
0:21:32they're like look we need some Headroom
0:21:33here now that the PC market is that
0:21:36important clearly the future is in iOS
0:21:37and all that stuff but what geez
0:21:39wouldn't it be nice to have everyone
0:21:41using a Mac and maybe they think one of
0:21:43the barriers there is the Mac name I
0:21:46don't know this is the type of thing
0:21:48that they're not going to talk about
0:21:49they're going to tell you what they're
0:21:49doing and maybe give you a picture I
0:21:53think you'll believe but I'm not sure
0:21:54what the real reason is but the fact
0:21:56that there's lots of extra syllables is
0:21:58just as a good enough reason as far as
0:21:59I'm concerned so the short one that
0:22:01everyone is using is mul oh you're down
0:22:03with that Molo molo from mountain lion
0:22:06No
0:22:07I haven't even turned yet I think with
0:22:09JLo the first one to do is horrible
0:22:12JLo Joe como lo it's terrible
0:22:15you know like Malo people doing in
0:22:17tweets busy I don't have room and you
0:22:19know why not this 10.8 I mean you need a
0:22:23text expander shortcut if you're writing
0:22:24an article about it just you can type
0:22:26molo and then it's panda mole oh yeah
0:22:31terrible yeah so we continue it and so
0:22:35as for the yearly thing no more yeah
0:22:38yeah for everyone so for people who
0:22:41don't know what this is apple also
0:22:42announced that they are on now a yearly
0:22:45schedule for OS 10 releases so the 10.8
0:22:50will be coming out and from from the
0:22:52release of 10.8 every year we're going
0:22:55to have a new version of the of the
0:23:00operating system they were not clear
0:23:02whether that was going to be a version
0:23:08in other words like we had lion which
0:23:10was big now we have mountain lion which
0:23:12even though it has the sub cat name the
0:23:16way that leopard had Snow Leopard if we
0:23:19remember back to snow leopard Snow
0:23:21Leopard they really didn't introduce new
0:23:23features they just made everything
0:23:24better faster and more stable and as
0:23:27I've mentioned on the other shows in my
0:23:29experience and most experience of people
0:23:31i've talked with it has been one of the
0:23:33most if not the most stable bug-free
0:23:35release of OS 10 in history Snow Leopard
0:23:39now mountain lion is not - Snow Leopard
0:23:44what you know it's not an acquits not
0:23:46bug fixes more stable I mean maybe we'll
0:23:49get that but it's plenty of new features
0:23:51it's a lot of redesign it's a bunch of
0:23:53new stuff and the implication is that
0:23:56they're moving forward they're plowing
0:23:57ahead does that concern you at all
0:23:59because I know you've expressed what
0:24:01what I have expressed also which is that
0:24:03lion is not always maybe as reliable and
0:24:06stable as we'd like it to be well the
0:24:09first concern is about uh writing
0:24:12schedules can I write something as long
0:24:14as I've used them in writing every year
0:24:16and that's exacerbated by the fact that
0:24:20that if they stick the summer releases
0:24:22you know quote-unquote coming out in
0:24:24summer whatever that that means and
0:24:26guess when WWDC is it's also summer none
0:24:30of them neither one of those things have
0:24:32actual dates and I do rely on the
0:24:34information disseminated at WABC
0:24:38and a tremendous amount when writing my
0:24:41reviews so it's it's the same place we
0:24:43were with line like oh geez are they
0:24:44going to release it before the show in
0:24:45which case that I'm screwed either way
0:24:47are they going to release it at the show
0:24:50I'm still kind of screwed if they
0:24:51release it two weeks after the show then
0:24:53I'd still like to go because maybe if I
0:24:55don't go to the W everybody see they
0:24:58talk about it and then two weeks later
0:25:00released the OS and then release the
0:25:02videos and so I won't have no time to
0:25:03watch the stuff or say they release the
0:25:05videos right the day after watc and then
0:25:07I have to watch them all you know in
0:25:10time to beat the release date so it adds
0:25:14a lot of uncertainty for me about what
0:25:17kind of volume I can produce and how
0:25:19much detail I can go into and whether I
0:25:21can get the information I need because
0:25:23it really depends on when WWC Falls and
0:25:25when the releases so I'm very nervous
0:25:26about that I now as for the content of
0:25:29the release you would assume that if
0:25:33they're going to go yearly they can't
0:25:34put as much stuff in maybe that's not
0:25:37true I obviously you said you know snow
0:25:41leopards and you know no new features ah
0:25:43but they spent a long time on it it's
0:25:46not it when people think about did they
0:25:48put lots of why should I buy it did the
0:25:49plots of stuff and it's like they want
0:25:51to see stuff they can seen screenshots
0:25:52so I measured in that regard
0:25:54Mountain Lion has all much new stuff has
0:25:57got tirely new applications new
0:25:59interfaces for old applications you know
0:26:01if you were just a look at screenshot
0:26:03you see that look you say that looks
0:26:04nothing like line I don't have that on
0:26:05line and that Sun you know but does that
0:26:08take longer that take more time and
0:26:10effort than Snow Leopard and do they
0:26:12have as much time for internal changes
0:26:15which I usually have a whole section
0:26:16dedicated to internal changes maybe
0:26:17there won't be a lot of internal changes
0:26:19so I don't know how I'm going to play
0:26:21this in terms of getting the review done
0:26:23and how much how much is there actually
0:26:24to write about in one year every single
0:26:26year maybe maybe they still will do kind
0:26:31of a tick-tock model in the Intel model
0:26:33where
0:26:34they'll do lots of core OS changes and
0:26:36then they'll add a bunch of fancy apps
0:26:38and then Correll has changed since bunch
0:26:39of fancy apps the line would be like the
0:26:41core OS changes and to fancy apps like
0:26:44they redid the address book and some
0:26:46other stuff and they mangled Safari and
0:26:48you know but it wasn't like this this is
0:26:50like you know all those apps you know
0:26:51and love that use all the time well
0:26:53we're just we're redoing them all and
0:26:55yeah some of them we already redid in
0:26:56line so you already got the new mail and
0:26:57we're not really going crazy with that
0:26:58and the new address book will trying to
0:27:00tweak a little bit but I chat is gone
0:27:03iCal is renamed we're adding you know
0:27:06Notification Center and a new notes
0:27:08application and just you know that's a
0:27:11lot of stuff but I don't know if that
0:27:13stuff takes longer than creating a Grand
0:27:17Central Dispatch or you know core image
0:27:20or something like that or one of those
0:27:21core features that came along and the
0:27:23other big releases so we're in uncharted
0:27:27territory here I don't quite know how
0:27:29it's going to go and I don't know what
0:27:32kind of beast mountain line is really
0:27:34going to be in terms of writing review
0:27:37and actually what content is in the OS I
0:27:41was very surprised that they released
0:27:43the the Developer Preview to at the same
0:27:45time although Velma stuff that stuff's
0:27:48under NDA right like they have videos in
0:27:50their site and any reporter who wrote
0:27:52about stuff based on their press
0:27:53briefing oh that's fair game but I still
0:27:56can't talk about like the stuff that's
0:27:58on the developer side right I don't I
0:28:01don't know what the rule is on it I
0:28:02think so I obviously I can't talk about
0:28:06that but there are some internal changes
0:28:07they've just started looking at them but
0:28:09what's interesting though into that
0:28:12point is gosh we get to do our first
0:28:14sponsor too but to your point there it
0:28:17seems like a lot of the attendees of WDC
0:28:21for example there was a really big
0:28:23article on panics blog yesterday we all
0:28:26know and love panic that they seem to
0:28:30have some deep familiarity with a lot of
0:28:32the things that were going on in in
0:28:33mountain lion I didn't attend WWDC but
0:28:37how much of this was common knowledge I
0:28:39mean it sound it sure did sound like I
0:28:41mean maybe they went to the to the press
0:28:44thing they were brought out there I
0:28:45don't know they got briefed
0:28:46they got briefed that's a
0:28:47in brief I think I think one of the
0:28:49reasons they got briefed is because they
0:28:50made a lot of noise about sandboxing and
0:28:52they're a prominent Mac developer and so
0:28:54on and so forth
0:28:56ah that's incidentally what when the
0:28:58announcement came I knew that there was
0:29:00something coming but I didn't know the
0:29:02details and I also knew about mountain
0:29:05lion but I didn't put two and two
0:29:06together I'm like well it's not gonna be
0:29:07a mountain lion cuz they always send out
0:29:08invitations for that so it's got to be
0:29:10something else so I was sure it was
0:29:11going to be a sandboxing thing because
0:29:12developers have a wing for sandboxing
0:29:14like a decision from Apple and what to
0:29:15do about the whole sandboxing thing like
0:29:16keep moving the deadline for enforcing
0:29:18sandboxing on all Mac App Store apps and
0:29:21that's the type of thing they could do
0:29:22without a press thing or announcement so
0:29:24I was very surprised when the next day
0:29:26Mountain Lion is is here but still no
0:29:30announcement on sandboxing and so I
0:29:32think panic was brought in because that
0:29:34you know there are company that has
0:29:36expressed a lot of opinions about both
0:29:38of these issues and I think Apple wanted
0:29:40to sort of I don't know why I really
0:29:41don't know the rhyme reason how Apple
0:29:43chooses who to brief like for example I
0:29:45think mg Siegler got briefed because
0:29:48Jason Snell said he saw him on Apple's
0:29:50campus of the day he was getting briefed
0:29:51mm-hmm but Ars Technica did not get
0:29:54briefed against mg Siegler but why does
0:29:57he rate getting briefed but ours doesn't
0:29:59like he's one he's one granted a
0:30:02prominent blogger but I don't know I
0:30:06don't I don't understand how a boy like
0:30:08you would think all Apple just wants to
0:30:10be people who always say nice things
0:30:11about them well mg says he's not a you
0:30:13know uncritical of Apple well will we
0:30:17ever know will we ever understand I have
0:30:19more questions for John Gruber today
0:30:21when when we do his show after this one
0:30:24as far as how the sort of logistics of
0:30:26that work were they all gathered in a
0:30:28big room ahead of time where they
0:30:30brought up in separate shuttles
0:30:31independently with a you know us a
0:30:34burlap sack over there hey you know how
0:30:36do they do how did they do it
0:30:37Gruber points out that that uh Andy NACO
0:30:39didn't get briefed either I mean that's
0:30:42weird the PR people will call you day of
0:30:44but who gets early access how do they
0:30:46decide not that I begrudge the people
0:30:48who got early access their their access
0:30:50but it just seems weird like it's not
0:30:53like they're blacklisting people it's
0:30:55like look we just got a pic maybe they
0:30:56take like one of each like we own one of
0:30:57this type of thing one of this type of
0:30:58thing and obviously you know the New
0:31:00York Times The Wall Street Journal and
0:31:01stuff
0:31:02that that probably is still frustration
0:31:04to people who are in this business it's
0:31:06like what we feel like we're doing good
0:31:07reporting on Apple and they if they're
0:31:10going to be doing this thing where some
0:31:11people get early access why don't we get
0:31:14it and you don't want to get into the
0:31:15game of like oh they only give it to the
0:31:17people who write nice things I don't
0:31:18think that's true I just think they have
0:31:20people they like and have people they
0:31:21don't like and that's totally their
0:31:23right but it's got to be frustrating if
0:31:24you're in this bit because it seems like
0:31:29they are well man I understand where
0:31:33Apple's coming from right and that you
0:31:34don't necessarily want to tell everybody
0:31:36but how why not Andy why not have all
0:31:41people like you got in you got a brief
0:31:45Andy I mean it's not he writes for the
0:31:47Chicago sun-times it's not your
0:31:49publication and and he's got a really
0:31:52big show macbreak weekly I mean it seems
0:31:54like he would be the right person now
0:31:57anyway yeah and the whole idea like the
0:32:01reason you get early access in the
0:32:02regular non Apple world is because they
0:32:04want to give people who are in the press
0:32:06lead time to actually write about
0:32:08something so the day of all of a sudden
0:32:10a bunch of articles appear about the
0:32:11topic about and in the rest of in any
0:32:13other industry that's normal like you
0:32:15give the car magazines an early look at
0:32:17your car so they come to your Center and
0:32:20do test drives and I go the whole nine
0:32:22yards right and get and then they go
0:32:24back and I write their big long article
0:32:26about the preview of the new car and
0:32:27then like a month later it appears on
0:32:29newsstands all at the same time like you
0:32:30know the embargo was lifted that's
0:32:31that's how regular products always work
0:32:33apples has not been like that ever in
0:32:35the jobs to era and now they're starting
0:32:37to be like that but they're they're
0:32:39doing it weirdly like car companies for
0:32:41example invite everybody you know if you
0:32:43have a car magazine you're invited to
0:32:44come out and then it seems that they
0:32:47would do it based on like prominence
0:32:48like who has a big audience so I don't I
0:32:51don't know it's it's strange this is I
0:32:54said it's uncharted territory for
0:32:55everybody and I'm not sure how they can
0:32:58do it and as I think you pointed out
0:33:00because it you want on a on a Marcos
0:33:02thing why not just invite all the press
0:33:03at once why do the keynote for one why
0:33:06have all the press in the same room do
0:33:08presentation once you know that each
0:33:10Coast you know or whatever you want to
0:33:12do but individually seems like boy
0:33:14Phil's got to be
0:33:15prior to given that present right and
0:33:17that's that's the John Gruber points out
0:33:19he says oh man you know this thing was
0:33:20rehearsed and prepared and it was well
0:33:22he probably gave it 20 times already you
0:33:25know that's why it was so prepared of
0:33:27her is not saying I mean not to take
0:33:29anything away from the guy clearly they
0:33:31took it seriously and I bet you anything
0:33:33that the first time was as good as the
0:33:3420th time he did it but I mean it just
0:33:37seems it seems very interesting and
0:33:42weird to do it that way and it it I
0:33:45think it's pretty cool in some ways I
0:33:48mean it's gotta me and maybe that's why
0:33:50they did it maybe they did it so that
0:33:52each individual person who is being
0:33:53brought in and briefed felt like it was
0:33:56very very special and unique and just
0:34:00for them and that's why they did it so
0:34:02that each person felt like Apple was
0:34:05saying to them we like you we trust you
0:34:08be our emissary be our PR department and
0:34:11we'll keep doing these really cool
0:34:12things for you it's like when you
0:34:14separate prisoners when you interrogate
0:34:15them that's what it is you know I give
0:34:19like after the keynotes they would pull
0:34:21in the press to give like you know each
0:34:23one goes individually talks to whoever
0:34:25Apple represented they don't let they
0:34:26don't do the thing where there's a guy
0:34:27up there and a mic and a bunch of press
0:34:29waving their notepads but they're 40
0:34:33style hats on saying mr. jobs mr. jobs I
0:34:36wouldn't you know they don't want that
0:34:37environment where the press becomes a
0:34:38mob and they're there they're beholden
0:34:40to the press times you know like the
0:34:41briefing room in the White House that's
0:34:43exactly the environment Apple never
0:34:45wants to subject itself to they like a
0:34:47controlled environment and if it's a
0:34:49bunch of Apple guys and one reporter
0:34:51that one reporter is clearly not the one
0:34:54in control the situation but if you get
0:34:5517 reporters and you get you give the
0:34:58presentation fine give it to 17 you know
0:35:00they do that all time they come to
0:35:01California for press event all the press
0:35:02it's in there they get the presentation
0:35:04they're done but after that you
0:35:05individually get pulled in to talk to
0:35:07people about it it's not like they go
0:35:08and now we will take questions because
0:35:10that's a totally different dynamic yeah
0:35:12and Apple clearly favors the dynamic
0:35:14where they are the one in control we are
0:35:16now presenting you listen no talking no
0:35:17questions afterwards you will
0:35:19individually come to a bunch of Apple
0:35:21people and talk to them with the PR
0:35:23person present and there'll be more
0:35:24Apple people there than you and there's
0:35:26no you will not be able to get
0:35:28encouragement from
0:35:29other reporters in the room and sort of
0:35:31start getting that you know start
0:35:33getting your reporter hat on and say
0:35:35we're gonna ask about this what about
0:35:37this yeah and what about you know they
0:35:38don't like that but and it's kind of
0:35:40silly like for the briefings up I guess
0:35:43it's better to be brief than not to be
0:35:45brief but the real issue is early access
0:35:47like it's not so much the questions you
0:35:48get to ask them because they're never
0:35:50gonna it's not like well if I had been
0:35:52briefed I could have asked this question
0:35:53they would have answered it no they're
0:35:54gonna do if they don't want to talk
0:35:55about they're going to deflect the other
0:35:56professionals here they're not going to
0:35:57say hey when's the release date it's
0:35:59like oh darn no one thought to ask that
0:36:00yeah I asked it then they told me
0:36:02they're not going to tell you the
0:36:02release date if they decide they're not
0:36:04going to tell you the release date but
0:36:05it's the fact that you get to take the
0:36:07thing home and use it for a week and
0:36:10write about it while no one even knows
0:36:11it exists so then the day comes out you
0:36:13are there deign date with your review
0:36:16which must have been this is gonna be a
0:36:18strange change for Gruber too because he
0:36:20just posted his review of the Steve Jobs
0:36:21bio so he's used to being able to have a
0:36:23leisurely pace if he's not ready to talk
0:36:25about it he's not ready that'll be
0:36:26interesting to give him an early look
0:36:27and then he doesn't post anything yeah
0:36:29all of a sudden no that's a really good
0:36:31point and that that's something and he
0:36:33said many times is that he likes to take
0:36:35his time with stuff and I feel like
0:36:39there's the expectation from Apple that
0:36:41hey we're gonna give you a private
0:36:43keynote and we're gonna send you away
0:36:45with a MacBook Air they do have an
0:36:48expectation there well there's a
0:36:51difference between like I think the
0:36:52reason Gruber doesn't want to feel rush
0:36:55is because if if you found out about at
0:36:58the same time as the rest of the general
0:36:59populace the worst thing is to have to
0:37:01go and now like get something up that
0:37:03day because it's going to be sloppy and
0:37:05not to a depth at it like that's not his
0:37:06style and that's not the type of
0:37:07publication he has yeah but if you give
0:37:10if you give you a week with it that's
0:37:11that's probably like enough time to to
0:37:14get something significant like I think
0:37:15mostly he's trying to avoid and I would
0:37:17try to avoid too and I do try to avoid
0:37:19with my reviews I don't want to like
0:37:21have to come up with something day of
0:37:23when I've just found out about it and
0:37:25because it's just I don't I don't have
0:37:28it all settled in my mind at that point
0:37:29I don't want to have to write something
0:37:31just because that's the kind of
0:37:32publication we are we got to have
0:37:33something up like this plenty places
0:37:34that have to have something up report
0:37:35the news give a little bit of commentary
0:37:37but on that's not my style
0:37:39so a week maybe more than enough time
0:37:42to get something out Plus this isn't
0:37:44review this is like a preview type of
0:37:46thing I mean you saw this with line when
0:37:49I never wanted to talk about it because
0:37:51I want to save it all for my review I
0:37:53still kind of feel that but if they're
0:37:54going to go with yearly maybe that
0:37:56doesn't fly anymore and maybe it's got
0:37:58to be I still just don't want to do one
0:38:01review I don't to do seven articles
0:38:02about I just want to say look here's my
0:38:03review here it is but before leading up
0:38:05to it I can discuss it a little bit and
0:38:08hash out I guess yeah alright usually
0:38:10good at yeah we got to do our four way
0:38:12behind way behind John yeah we had a
0:38:15really good sponsor a new one I'm going
0:38:17to tell you guys all about hover okay
0:38:20however makes domain names symbol this
0:38:21is what they do okay
0:38:23this is like it's like a breath of fresh
0:38:24air for domain names that's how I want
0:38:26you to frame this in your mind when you
0:38:28think about it so I'll tell you what
0:38:30some let me tell you first with some
0:38:31customers of theirs are saying I went on
0:38:33this you heard of Twitter these that I
0:38:36have but I muted alright I went I went
0:38:39on there use the Twitter here's what
0:38:41people saying moving to hover is like
0:38:43walking through a dirty closet and
0:38:46finding domain Narnia clean simple no
0:38:49tricks no upselling and that's the thing
0:38:51these guys they do not they do not
0:38:53upsell and that's how you'll go around
0:38:55you I don't want to name them the ones
0:38:56that do this but you know who I'm
0:38:57talking about they have it's it's
0:39:00garbage you try to get in there you try
0:39:02to register domain your ups are a
0:39:03million different things oh you wanted
0:39:05this you want to sign up for this click
0:39:07here to not sign up for these 20 service
0:39:11that's it's that's garbage
0:39:12however com does not do that here's idea
0:39:15they have smart simple tools their goal
0:39:17is to make every function from a
0:39:19renewing a domain name to changing your
0:39:20password whatever it is is intuitive and
0:39:23as easy could possibly be
0:39:25they have like a FedEx style tracking
0:39:28system so when you're doing your domain
0:39:30name transfer it like it shows you where
0:39:32it is visually in the process I mean
0:39:34they're all about making this simple
0:39:38they've got tons of helps and tutorials
0:39:41they've got a wonderful team that takes
0:39:44pride in solving problems if you call
0:39:46them from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. the phone
0:39:50rings a human being answers right away
0:39:52and they know they get it they'll help
0:39:54you now
0:39:56thing fancy just good intentions and a
0:39:57really great execution so here's what
0:40:01you do you go to hover.com slash dan
0:40:03sent me and there's a special deal there
0:40:06use a coupon code dan sent me just for
0:40:09you guys ten percent off so go check it
0:40:12out hover calm and if you're still in
0:40:15GoDaddy and didn't manage to get all her
0:40:17during the last big fit of everyone
0:40:19getting off GoDaddy yeah I was just as
0:40:20good a time as any why not yeah why wait
0:40:23I think I still have one that I couldn't
0:40:26get off GoDaddy I think I have like a
0:40:27dot name that I couldn't find somebody
0:40:28to take just see if Harper takes though
0:40:30get off of there man yeah no I got I got
0:40:33stuff off when he died and instead of
0:40:36like consolidating I spread the love
0:40:37around like all right take stuff off
0:40:39just put this one up as I didn't like
0:40:41everyone says try this one try that one
0:40:42so I try mall what do I care
0:40:44yeah put a button now my domains are
0:40:46spread out across many providers and
0:40:48they're all better than GoDaddy though
0:40:49all the ones that were recommended to me
0:40:51Oh daddy I assume we'll never be a
0:40:53sponsor of the show I I have to be
0:40:56honest um we do have some standards here
0:40:59and if they were to contact me with what
0:41:02they are currently offering with what's
0:41:05out there right now and godaddy.com if
0:41:07they were to inquire and say we'd like I
0:41:09would say I'm sorry I don't think that's
0:41:11a fit with with the audience if they
0:41:12were to redo things change things up
0:41:14stop killing elephants whatever I would
0:41:17I would definitely talk to him about it
0:41:19if they wanted to make a change
0:41:20everybody can change Sean I've got open
0:41:22like a true businessman kind of is not
0:41:24closed the door and going right ship
0:41:25they can change you believe they can
0:41:27change I believe everybody can change
0:41:29its that if I believe in one thing
0:41:32fundamentally is that people everybody
0:41:35everybody can change and if they sent
0:41:37Danica Patrick over
0:41:38that's her name maybe that would help it
0:41:41wouldn't hurt all right so gatekeeper
0:41:44gatekeeper yeah three modes well this is
0:41:49interesting because my understanding
0:41:51from my my frenzied reading since
0:41:53yesterday is that this is another case
0:41:57where a third-party developer a
0:41:59prominent third-party developer
0:42:01apparently had a large amount of
0:42:03influence over apples Directioners area
0:42:05so will Shipley in November
0:42:06of 2011 wrote an article called real
0:42:09security Mac os10 requires Apple signed
0:42:11certificates it was a blog post right
0:42:12discussing sandboxing which is big thing
0:42:16that developers are worried about
0:42:17because many things that you would
0:42:19expect to be able to do are not allowed
0:42:20at your sandbox and he looked at it and
0:42:24saying what what does sandboxing
0:42:25supposed to do in the entitlements and
0:42:27the you know you can do you're allowed
0:42:29to write files to disk but only in this
0:42:32directory every single thing you do you
0:42:33have to have an entitlement for doing
0:42:34and and the second level is auditing
0:42:36where okay you have to submit your
0:42:37application to the Mac App Store and
0:42:38presumably they look to make sure it's
0:42:39not harmful and the Wills point was that
0:42:43entitlements and auditing are fine as
0:42:47far as the extent but they not really
0:42:48are going to help you with malware
0:42:50because first of all entitlements like
0:42:53if your application needs to do
0:42:54something like needs to read from the
0:42:56address book because it's an address
0:42:57book application if it's malware of
0:42:58course it's going to masquerade as an
0:43:00address book application and you're
0:43:01going to tell the Mac App Store people
0:43:03hey I need the read from address book
0:43:05entitlement I don't even know if it's
0:43:06real entitlement by the way but I need
0:43:07whatever entitlement because that's what
0:43:08my app does and they go yeah that's fine
0:43:10yeah you should have that entitlement
0:43:11you are an address book app or whatever
0:43:12uh and auditing is you know you can't
0:43:16tell from a program whether it's going
0:43:18to do something harmful even if you have
0:43:20the source code it's very difficult it's
0:43:21so both of those things can't possibly
0:43:24actually stop malware all they can do is
0:43:27make it a little bit harder to sneak
0:43:29malware past and so oh well shepley's
0:43:33suggestion was that each developer be
0:43:37given an individual certificate such
0:43:38that when you load their application it
0:43:42is inextricably and cryptographically
0:43:44linked to their identity that's on file
0:43:46with Apple and if it turns out that you
0:43:49have mount that you know you've done
0:43:50something bad or you're a naughty
0:43:51developer it turns out that malware or
0:43:53whatever Apple can revoke the
0:43:55certificate for that application
0:43:57rendering in inert cross all Macs so
0:44:00this was bullshit please suggestion and
0:44:01you're saying like that sandboxing
0:44:03doesn't do this that the approval
0:44:05process doesn't do this what you need to
0:44:06have is to tie the person to the
0:44:09application and have
0:44:11a certificate authority controlled by
0:44:13Apple that can nuke this app remotely
0:44:15and say we found this app is bad kill it
0:44:18because all the other things means like
0:44:20if you you know if your entitlements and
0:44:22auditing stuff let's the malware get
0:44:24past then what do you do and like oh my
0:44:27god one got passed you have no recourse
0:44:29you and and really same like like all
0:44:30you actually need is the identity thing
0:44:33because once something is malware will
0:44:34find out quickly because this is the
0:44:36internet and switch it off and then
0:44:37problem solved so gatekeeper is
0:44:41different less severe and actually a
0:44:43little bit simpler than what he
0:44:44suggested but it does hinge on the idea
0:44:46of connecting developers identities with
0:44:49applications that you can prove I am
0:44:51company X or person X this is my
0:44:53application it is connected to me and
0:44:56then it Apple requires you know a name
0:44:58and email address a real address like
0:45:00whatever they wanted that whatever they
0:45:02do for their developer program so I can
0:45:03connect this back to a person all the
0:45:05way to the point where you can say if
0:45:06you did something illegal the people who
0:45:08take legal action against you because I
0:45:09look this I this is not a mysterious
0:45:11application we know the person who made
0:45:13this we can find them we have you know
0:45:15tax records for them because you know
0:45:17like that is not some sort of anonymous
0:45:21thing that we don't know where it came
0:45:22from
0:45:23right but the key difference with
0:45:25gatekeeper versus what will Shipley
0:45:28suggest it is the gatekeeper doesn't
0:45:29have that remote kill switch doesn't
0:45:31have the thing the nooks the app
0:45:33everywhere and it sounds like well it
0:45:34wasn't that the whole point the whole
0:45:35point was if malware slips through you
0:45:37need this remote kill switch it's it's
0:45:39interesting they didn't do that because
0:45:40they could have you know it's a similar
0:45:41type of thing like all this will nuclei
0:45:43but I think they actually have that for
0:45:44the app store I'm not sure but all
0:45:47gatekeeper does is block the the install
0:45:50or launch process there's no kill switch
0:45:52to kill the application you already got
0:45:54it so when they revoke the certificate
0:45:58of bad company bla application bla that
0:46:00turns out to be malware it will only
0:46:02stop new people from installing it if
0:46:04you already have that application and
0:46:06have already launched it you are not
0:46:08cured of them al where now they have a
0:46:10separate process for detecting malware
0:46:12and they know the thing that didn't Snow
0:46:13Leopard in line where it will say this
0:46:15is malware because you recognize the
0:46:16signature of Allah ah that seems worse
0:46:20is like what if I'm already infected I'm
0:46:21not being helped well look once you know
0:46:23it's malware from reading the internet
0:46:24read
0:46:24you don't know like you've already been
0:46:26infected by that point so apples not
0:46:28taking it on itself to kill that
0:46:30application everywhere and it is kind of
0:46:33like heavy-handed of like this is an
0:46:35application that somebody has and
0:46:36they've launched it and run it for
0:46:37awhile then all of a sudden the next day
0:46:38it doesn't work it's kind of like that
0:46:40thing Amazon did with the 1984 book
0:46:41where they change the version of it or
0:46:43revoked it or whatever people like that
0:46:44it's creepy where something you were
0:46:47using is fine and then they the next day
0:46:51it doesn't work people are pointing out
0:46:53in the chat room that I guess maybe they
0:46:55don't have a for iOS it's not for
0:46:56malware but things like I'm my copy of I
0:46:58mean still works just fine you know one
0:46:59works fine too and my understanding is
0:47:01that if you have if you bought it and or
0:47:04I mean if it's free but they still
0:47:06consider free like purchasing if you
0:47:08have purchased an app even if it is
0:47:10later subsequently removed from the
0:47:12store you can still get it like I can
0:47:14put my name on any of my iOS devices
0:47:17that I buy until they change this rule
0:47:20forever if I get a new I a new iPad
0:47:22today or when the new iPad three comes
0:47:24out in March I go get it I can put on a
0:47:26Mon that because I already got it
0:47:27that's not malware that's just like oh
0:47:29we don't approve there right but it's
0:47:31something that was that was in the store
0:47:32and then got rejected later a remove
0:47:34polled later so they can do something
0:47:36different with them on a malware all
0:47:37right but so the the point of gatekeeper
0:47:40is it seems like it leaves people in the
0:47:43lurch but the analogy that we'll simply
0:47:46made on Twitter what's great is that
0:47:47it's like it's like a virus like a real
0:47:49virus you don't need to cure people the
0:47:51virus you just need to stop its spread
0:47:53and that's what gatekeeper does like the
0:47:55second they flip that switch you have
0:47:57quarantined it that will no longer
0:47:59spread anymore because anybody who has
0:48:00not already downloaded and launched this
0:48:02application will not be able to do so
0:48:05because were they to do so they'll see
0:48:06the certificates revoked involved and
0:48:08they'll get the warning and stuff like
0:48:09that right ah now the three the three
0:48:11radio buttons you were talking about are
0:48:12the different modes that you can run
0:48:14your Mac in right one mode is exactly
0:48:16like Lion
0:48:17you just run whatever the heck you want
0:48:19and this you know it's it's exactly the
0:48:22same is in line you know when you in
0:48:23Safari or something you download an
0:48:24application the first time you launch it
0:48:26it says this application was downloaded
0:48:27infinitely sure yeah yeah so there
0:48:29already is like that Barry's been there
0:48:31since I think just nut up Snow Leopard
0:48:32maybe yeah
0:48:34but that's the that's one mode that's
0:48:36not the default hub
0:48:38the opposite end of the spectrum Oh tis
0:48:40only run things from the Mac App Store
0:48:41and that's straightforward to understand
0:48:43it's like look anything is not from the
0:48:44Mac App Store sorry not going to happen
0:48:45and many people were afraid this would
0:48:47happen because it would really kill the
0:48:48third-party market for applications
0:48:51outside the Mac App Store and it is an
0:48:53option on mountain line but that is also
0:48:55not the default the default is only
0:49:00allow Mac App Store applications and
0:49:03applications that are signed for the
0:49:05certificate like in other words
0:49:06applications that we can trace back to a
0:49:07person according to apples
0:49:08record-keeping and that we can revoke
0:49:10those certificates for it's different in
0:49:13that right now individual developers
0:49:16don't have a way to sign applications I
0:49:17mean you can you can do it with a code
0:49:19signature yourself and just sign it to
0:49:20make sure the application hasn't been
0:49:22tampered with and it's lets you do
0:49:23things like provide an update to your
0:49:25application that doesn't ask you for the
0:49:26keychain warnings again because you can
0:49:28prove that it's a set from the same
0:49:29developer as before but really you could
0:49:31just be a fly-by-night thing and make
0:49:32your own little certificate and the fact
0:49:34that you know it all does is help you
0:49:36prove that your application hasn't been
0:49:38tampered with somebody else it doesn't
0:49:39protect you against malware because they
0:49:40have no way to find you and hunt you
0:49:41down and hold you accountable certainly
0:49:44in a way to revoke that certificate and
0:49:46disable that application but the under
0:49:49mountain line the certificate would be
0:49:50an Apple issued certificate they would
0:49:52say ok you have proven to Apple that you
0:49:54or this person here is a certificate
0:49:55please use this design your applications
0:49:57instead of like that your you know your
0:49:59own sort of self signed certificate Lee
0:50:01as they guess the equivalent of you know
0:50:03if you know about SSL self-signed
0:50:04certificates there's a third-party
0:50:06vouching for you saying you are who you
0:50:07are sign your apps with this and that's
0:50:09the default mode the default mode is
0:50:11anything for the Mac App Store is fine
0:50:12and anything you download off any place
0:50:14on the Internet as long as it's signed
0:50:15by an official Apple developer
0:50:17certificate will let that go through -
0:50:19ah and again the idea is that if it
0:50:23turns out to be malware Apple rogue so
0:50:25should you forget the people who are
0:50:26infected or infected but we stopped the
0:50:27spread so it's very deferential to
0:50:30almost to a fault to not stepping on
0:50:34people's toes because you would assume
0:50:37that every single reputable developer is
0:50:39going to I mean they're already signed
0:50:40up for the developer program probably
0:50:41you know some than pirating of
0:50:43development tools or anything they're
0:50:45not going to submit to the Mac App Store
0:50:46say they're not into that they're just
0:50:48going to put it up on their own website
0:50:49up there there
0:50:51they're going to sign it with the Apple
0:50:53certificate so they can show that
0:50:54they're up and up you know what I mean
0:50:55and that being the default all it stops
0:50:58people from running are things that
0:51:00aren't signed up what wouldn't be signed
0:51:01weird open-source stuff which probably
0:51:03people shouldn't be playing with anyway
0:51:04freeware and other stuff is not
0:51:06maintained like and that you know that
0:51:09may be unfair to them was like a hug now
0:51:11I got to get a tip again I gotta sign
0:51:13this ID just like having this free app
0:51:14there's lots of apps that run fine but
0:51:16they're not maintained for you know I
0:51:18haven't updated this version because it
0:51:19runs fine it does some simple thing or
0:51:21it's made by developers who are not
0:51:23really Mac developers primarily this may
0:51:27sound still like a grim scenario but
0:51:29realize that all this that I'm talking
0:51:31about is just a series of dialog boxes
0:51:33on the first launch that say something
0:51:36about do you want to run this or not ah
0:51:38and there's even a bypass where if you
0:51:42right-click and select open which nobody
0:51:44ever does if you ever don't do an
0:51:45application and doesn't never yeah if
0:51:47you right-click an application icon in
0:51:49the finder and select open it's the same
0:51:51as doing a double click but it's not the
0:51:53same on mountain lion in one particular
0:51:55way if you do that it doesn't even put
0:51:56up the dialog box and says hey this
0:51:58thing hasn't been signed or blah blah
0:52:01blah like in other words people power
0:52:04users and people just want to run stuff
0:52:05will not be prevented from doing so all
0:52:07this this is a series of dialog boxes
0:52:09that are making sure that you want to do
0:52:12this and the reason requiring explicit
0:52:14action like that that's important
0:52:15because malware you can imagine wanting
0:52:17to like auto launch or run itself by
0:52:20putting in your login items or do some
0:52:22other thing that's not initiated by you
0:52:24back that's like an extra level of
0:52:26malware on top of like it just doing
0:52:28something bad when it runs so if you
0:52:29know what you're doing even in the
0:52:30default mode I mean I might actually
0:52:32leave it in the default mode depending
0:52:33on how well all this works even the
0:52:35default mode where it says I only accept
0:52:36Mac App Store applications and things
0:52:39that have been signed by an Apple
0:52:40certificate you can still run all your
0:52:41other stuff you just the first time you
0:52:43run it right-click and select open and
0:52:46it off it goes some of the chatroom says
0:52:48you sure that's not a bug no I'm not
0:52:50sure that's not a bug but uh like it I'm
0:52:53pretty confident that power users and
0:52:56people who just want to run stuff aren't
0:52:58going to be impaired by the system
0:53:00amount in line but that it will do
0:53:01almost everything that will should we
0:53:03was suggesting in terms of
0:53:05stopping malware not by nuking it all
0:53:07remotely but by simply stopping its
0:53:09spread if there ever is any kind of app
0:53:11alright I'm brick nuke it from orbit the
0:53:13only way I'd be sure so this is a very
0:53:16nice compromising I think everybody's
0:53:17pretty happy was compromised most
0:53:18developers I've seen and you know talked
0:53:20to personally or read interviews with
0:53:23like you know the nightmare scenario was
0:53:25Mac App Store only and that didn't
0:53:26happen and this is a pretty nice
0:53:29compromise incorporating a concept that
0:53:32was not really present in line and
0:53:33earlier which is the idea of a trusted
0:53:36apple developer being able to stake
0:53:40their reputation on you know their
0:53:42application like good good developers
0:53:43want this good developers want to be
0:53:46able to say look I'm willing to say I'm
0:53:48willing to stand behind what I produce
0:53:49let my my inherent goodness and my good
0:53:53intentions be worth something and don't
0:53:55treat me the same way you treat you
0:53:56would treat someone who is just trying
0:53:57to scam people or produce malware or
0:53:59whatever that must be incredibly
0:54:01frustrating for people who are longtime
0:54:03reputable solid Mac developers being
0:54:06subjected to the same rules as people
0:54:07who are keyword spamming the App Store
0:54:09and putting a bunch of crap apps that
0:54:11have malware hidden in them and stuff
0:54:12like that that some way to connect your
0:54:15reputation with your application and in
0:54:17exchange for that connection to receive
0:54:19benefits and the benefits here are that
0:54:21you continue to sell your application
0:54:23outside the Mac App Store there's no
0:54:24approval process that Apple does not
0:54:25take cut but nevertheless your
0:54:28application has given higher standing in
0:54:31the default configuration of the
0:54:32operating system then some random things
0:54:34someone compiled into name and sign now
0:54:39on the issue of those dialog boxes that
0:54:41come up Dustin Curtis had a blog post
0:54:44complaining about the particulars of
0:54:46those dialog boxes and I kind of don't
0:54:47blame him so once we do that we better
0:54:51we better do our second sponsor just
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0:56:26be doing some more cool things with them
0:56:28so check them out thanks very much for
0:56:29their support Rackspace comm the dialog
0:56:33boxes yes sir
0:56:35so you download a DM which is an open
0:56:37source application sure as heck not
0:56:38going through the Mac App Store does not
0:56:40subject any approval process GPL I think
0:56:43I mean you download that on that line
0:56:45and you try to run it okay in the
0:56:47default configuration the dialog box you
0:56:49get says and it depends whether you
0:56:51running it raw or running it from a disk
0:56:54image or anything like that it says Adam
0:56:56has not been signed by recognized
0:56:58distributor and may damage your computer
0:56:59you should move it to the trash that's
0:57:01pretty harsh yeah move that's telling
0:57:03you what to do with it yeah and the
0:57:05buttons I think there actually is a move
0:57:07trash button the default button on the
0:57:08dialog box I see and Dustin Curtis this
0:57:10thing is eject disk image but I think
0:57:11that's only because it's from a disk
0:57:13image had you just had the application
0:57:15you know when they completely expand
0:57:16just the application ends up in your
0:57:17downloads folder yeah I think then the
0:57:19default button would be moved to trash
0:57:20so has not been signed by recognized
0:57:23distributor that's true like that's
0:57:25that's what Apple wants to get banned
0:57:26they want to say look we want
0:57:27applications for people who stick their
0:57:28reputations on the
0:57:30application so that you know if they
0:57:32screw you I'll never download software
0:57:34from this recognized person again and
0:57:38it's up to Apple to maintain like you
0:57:39know the identity system and make sure
0:57:42they don't keep trying to get new
0:57:43identities or whatever uh and may damage
0:57:45your computer it's like whoa whoa okay
0:57:47not signed by a recognized distributor
0:57:49but it's going to damage my you can't
0:57:50make that conclusion just because like
0:57:52especially in the transition when it's
0:57:53going to take people a while especially
0:57:55people who are not accustomed to doing
0:57:57any kind of code signing like all the
0:57:59open-source Mac applications or
0:58:00applications that are not updated that
0:58:02frequently to get on board say okay I
0:58:05guess if we don't want to be put in this
0:58:06in this ghetto like this is the flipside
0:58:08of the trusted great triple-a developers
0:58:11on the Mac platform being given
0:58:13preferential treatment because they're
0:58:15willing to go through these hoops it
0:58:16means that everyone else who was just
0:58:17kind of like well we've been going along
0:58:19fine we got this app it's pop it's doing
0:58:20this thing now now they have to do
0:58:22something they didn't have to do before
0:58:23to get in to that good camp and so
0:58:26saying it may damage your computer I
0:58:28guess that's true it may but like the
0:58:31vast majority of software is not malware
0:58:33it seems kind of harsh uh and then you
0:58:35should move it to the trash it's not
0:58:37even like like they're gonna tell you
0:58:38then you know may damage your computer
0:58:40in case it's not clear to you we think
0:58:41you should just chuck this thing down so
0:58:42this is a pretty big stick to make
0:58:45anybody who's on the up-and-up get and
0:58:49get an Apple certificate sign your
0:58:50applications no approval process no cut
0:58:53of profits just get the certificate and
0:58:54sign it so you don't won't be subjected
0:58:56to this Dustin calls it a fear mongering
0:58:59dialog it is kind of fear mongering but
0:59:01like if you want the benefits of I'm a
0:59:04trusted developer I you know I want all
0:59:09the benefits that come with me doing the
0:59:11right thing the flip side of that is
0:59:13that the people who aren't willing to do
0:59:14those things get get dinged so I think
0:59:19the dialogue is kind of harsh but it's
0:59:22it's the it's the flip side of the thing
0:59:24that everybody wants you can't have the
0:59:26good part without the bad part and this
0:59:27is the bad part and I don't think it
0:59:29will take that long for developers to do
0:59:31this and especially since like who
0:59:34installs software you know you kind of
0:59:36want someone who's not really
0:59:39knowledgeable about computers you want
0:59:41them to buy from the Mac App Store
0:59:42because it's problem free
0:59:44and if they're you maybe don't want them
0:59:46downloading installing random
0:59:47applications now maybe you want to
0:59:49install IDM for somebody and you just
0:59:50say okay you know cancel you can click
0:59:52through that dot it's not stopping you
0:59:53from doing it's just a scary message
0:59:55like you know Adam is fine I've been
0:59:56using it for years you know and go on
0:59:58your way but the
0:59:58your way but the
1:00:00this ugliness is motivation for the atom
1:00:03developers to get a certificate in sign
1:00:04and I'm assuming they will assuming that
1:00:07it does not impair their license
1:00:09restrictions or whatever they will do
1:00:10that now the other issue that related to
1:00:13the sort of the haves and have-nots the
1:00:15good guys and the bad guys split that's
1:00:16you know starting to happen here is that
1:00:20and this continues to be a source of
1:00:22contention for even the good developers
1:00:23Apple has been introducing api's that
1:00:26are only available to applications that
1:00:27are in the Mac App Store and this
1:00:28continues in mountain line so the iCloud
1:00:31applique P is alclad is neat you might
1:00:35you want to use it you got to be in the
1:00:37Mac App Store
1:00:38why no technical reason just that's it
1:00:40that's apples carrot and stick approach
1:00:42all over again like the carrot is hey I
1:00:44cut api's the stick is and you better
1:00:47get in our App Store if you want them
1:00:48because I don't know because they want a
1:00:50couple of profits because I think the
1:00:51Mac App Store is a better experience for
1:00:53all users and they want to encourage
1:00:54people to go in there using every tool
1:00:56in their disposal to try to get you into
1:00:58the Mac App Store Notification Center
1:01:00reportedly reportedly from the chat room
1:01:03I don't even remember who said it is
1:01:04also you know it's a headline feature of
1:01:06a mountain line you can look at it on
1:01:08Apple's website it's very similar to
1:01:10growl and Notification Center on iOS 5
1:01:13you want to use that apparently you need
1:01:16to be in the Mac App Store and so the
1:01:18obvious question for all the Triple Aim
1:01:19AG developers is hey well if we do this
1:01:21thing where we get your official
1:01:22certificate and we put the Apple stamp
1:01:24of approval and we connect our
1:01:26reputation with this application can we
1:01:29use iCloud then can we use Notification
1:01:31Center and people who have asked that in
1:01:33their briefings to Apple Apple has been
1:01:36nothing to announce no Bob you know wish
1:01:39you watch like they don't have anything
1:01:40to say about that right now
1:01:41clearly Apple is getting the feedback
1:01:43I'm sure they're getting an earful of it
1:01:44now that's what people want they say you
1:01:46know we don't want to be subject to your
1:01:48approval process we don't want to have
1:01:51to be sandbox like the Mac App Store
1:01:53ones do especially if you can't resolve
1:01:54this untenable issue where you know
1:01:56transmit the FTP application literally
1:01:58cannot exist with the sandboxing as it
1:02:00currently exists now because it the
1:02:01whole point is that it writes reads and
1:02:03writes arbitrary locations and then in
1:02:05the file system you know we would we
1:02:08would like to be as good as citizen as
1:02:09we can be but we just can't be in the
1:02:11Mac App Store because our application
1:02:13doesn't fit in your definition of what a
1:02:15proper Mac App Store application is but
1:02:17we do want to use the iCloud API we do
1:02:19want to use Notification Center why do
1:02:20we have to be ghettoized
1:02:22in terms of feature parity and API use
1:02:25simply because we're not in the Mac App
1:02:28Store it so it's that's still a rough
1:02:30situation in the middle there and that's
1:02:31a place where developers I'm sure are
1:02:34sending Apple their feedback and should
1:02:36be sending it and saying hey if we sign
1:02:37if we if we connect ourselves to this
1:02:40app let us use all the api's and I
1:02:42really hope Apple does the reverse that
1:02:44decision you're upset yeah I like it I'm
1:02:52upsetting time like I can't yeah any
1:02:55time I think apples making a mistake
1:02:56because I can't think of like what it
1:03:00what is the what is the motivation for
1:03:03keeping iCloud Mac App Store only if you
1:03:07think Apple is evil it's like well they
1:03:08want to cut up your money they want to
1:03:10have control they want to they want to
1:03:13control your destiny completely they
1:03:15want you under their thumb and getting
1:03:16you in the Mac App Store does that but I
1:03:20don't think Apple is cartoonishly evil
1:03:22so you have to what else is it the light
1:03:25side thing is they really believe that
1:03:27the Mac App Store experience as proven
1:03:30by the iOS experience is such an enabler
1:03:33of more people buying applications more
1:03:35people using them people having fewer
1:03:37problems that a controlled experience
1:03:39for application distribution
1:03:40installation of installation is better
1:03:42for the customer and what's better for
1:03:45the customer is better for Apple because
1:03:46more people buy Apple stuff and
1:03:48eventually is better for the developer
1:03:50like everyone hated the iOS App Store
1:03:52where they had such tremendous control
1:03:54and approval process and all that stuff
1:03:55but the benefit is that people are not
1:03:58afraid to install apps on their phone
1:04:00right and if you're a developer you're
1:04:03going to complain about the approval
1:04:04process until a bazillion people install
1:04:06your stupid tilting beer-drinking
1:04:08application on day one of the iPhone you
1:04:10would have never gotten eight million
1:04:13people to download your stupid
1:04:14beer-drinking application the day of new
1:04:16iMac came because installing
1:04:18applications and on Mac OS was scary
1:04:20and installing it in iOS was tap-tap-tap
1:04:23look good you tilted it looks like I'm
1:04:25drinking a beer chi-ching
1:04:27that that experience you know that's the
1:04:31light side explanation that Apple really
1:04:32believes this is good for everybody yes
1:04:34it's super painful and annoying for
1:04:35developers and his issues to be worked
1:04:36out but it's good for Apple because we
1:04:38get some of your money everything and
1:04:40and we get to pick what's on our
1:04:41platform it's good for users because
1:04:43they're not afraid to install
1:04:44applications and eventually eventually
1:04:45it we swear to you it's good for
1:04:47developers again in cases like
1:04:50applications that cannot exist on the
1:04:52Mac App Store as the rules currently
1:04:54apply like SuperDuper which is an
1:04:55awesome application or transmit which
1:04:57everybody loves for file transfer that's
1:04:59that's something has to be fixed there
1:05:01that's like a problem to be addressed
1:05:03because what are they going to say oh we
1:05:05think file transfer is not important
1:05:08anymore or we think disk cloning is
1:05:10something that should only be handled by
1:05:11the OS vendor and we don't care that
1:05:13billions of users love that product you
1:05:15know that's something that needs to be
1:05:17worked out and that's that's a source of
1:05:18frustration and the fact again that the
1:05:20sandboxing stuff like the people like
1:05:22like panic or asking about transmit I
1:05:24didn't even know if Dave is asking about
1:05:27super duper but they would like to know
1:05:29so what's the deal with a sandboxing you
1:05:31said we all have to be sandbox by such
1:05:32and such a date but we can't we
1:05:34literally cannot cannot distribute our
1:05:37application sandbox so we cannot be in
1:05:39the Mac App Store or say they're in the
1:05:41Mac App Store now and have to pull
1:05:42themselves out we've got to leave the
1:05:44Mac App Store if you enforce this rule
1:05:45so they move the deadline and still no
1:05:47word in sandboxing so we're all still
1:05:51waiting on that Apple loves to think
1:05:53about these things long and hard kind of
1:05:55like they presumably thought long and
1:05:56hard on gatekeeper and I think it's a
1:05:59good sign that gatekeeper uses a lot of
1:06:02the things that they will simply
1:06:04suggested I think we'll Shipley was
1:06:06briefed actually a mountain lion and why
1:06:08would he be briefed well because they
1:06:09said hey you know that thing you wrote
1:06:11the big lock blog post about which
1:06:12re-read because you're a prominent Mac
1:06:13developer well let's show you what we
1:06:15did what do you think of this it's kind
1:06:17of like what you suggested but it's
1:06:18actually a different and better and in
1:06:20interesting ways that's I guess that's
1:06:22why you briefed real shipley on it but
1:06:23that's the new kinder gentler Apple they
1:06:26don't just implement your thing and and
1:06:28you find out with everyone else they'll
1:06:29come in and say hey we like that idea
1:06:31take a look I don't know what the cause
1:06:32and effect relationship is they may have
1:06:33been working on something like that for
1:06:35a while but clearly Apple is a being
1:06:38influenced by developers and B
1:06:41not above acknowledging that fact he
1:06:43used to be that you know Apple would
1:06:46read a bunch of stuff and be influenced
1:06:47by but they would never come out and say
1:06:49oh because we'll Shipley suggested this
1:06:52idea that's why we did it
1:06:53they were just never do that it wasn't
1:06:54it wasn't done but you don't admit where
1:06:57our inspiration comes from you know you
1:07:00can draw your own conclusions but now
1:07:02they were just by you know they're
1:07:04they're coming out and saying you know
1:07:05we we're going to brief you and we read
1:07:08what you did and check this out isn't
1:07:09this cool and that's nice to not be
1:07:12stingy with the with the praise or
1:07:15anything it could be some sort of legal
1:07:17thing where they don't want to do that
1:07:18so Apple took my idea I'm going to sue
1:07:19you but that's the kind relationship
1:07:21people want to have with Apple's that
1:07:22they they they can call will Shipley and
1:07:24show him what they did and not think
1:07:26he's going to go home get a lawyer and
1:07:27sue them for stealing it Lydia you know
1:07:30that's not the world we want to live in
1:07:32we also say thanks very much to
1:07:35Squarespace what is it this is a fully
1:07:37hosted completely managed environment
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1:08:00can do it ten times faster with their
1:08:02platform they just came out with
1:08:03something that's totally awesome I love
1:08:05it Merlin Mann has a really great
1:08:07example of this and basically what this
1:08:10is a called slideshow - and they've
1:08:13added tons and tons of options so you've
1:08:15seen these really cool slideshows out
1:08:17there that have rode you know they move
1:08:19they slide they have links they do all
1:08:20that anything man this stuff is really
1:08:22complicated it's not if you use their
1:08:24stuff and it's all built in you've got
1:08:26to check these guys out squarespace.com
1:08:28and when you go there use the code dan
1:08:32sent me to the number two and you will
1:08:35get a 15% off for your first six months
1:08:38amazing service thanks very much to
1:08:40Squarespace comm for making this show
1:08:42possible it's got one more thing on molo
1:08:46you know like the meloa you know I I
1:08:50like I like the beans growing on me I
1:08:52like it a little bit more
1:08:53it still seems a little silly and
1:08:55unnecessary it is but when you when you
1:08:58say it I like it I like Singh mountain
1:09:00lion mountain lion yeah if you don't
1:09:03notice it you just swallow up a mountain
1:09:05lion she just called 10.10 dot
1:09:09I don't know so this is something you
1:09:12were getting up earlier in the show a
1:09:15mountain lion could potentially keep us
1:09:20in the region of pain of Mac OS 10
1:09:23versions either for a longer period of
1:09:25time or perhaps perpetually and the
1:09:27region of pain has traditionally been
1:09:29defined as 10 point X point zero through
1:09:33five ish so those are the versions where
1:09:36you're like alright so 10 point X point
1:09:38Oh everyone's like okay the point one's
1:09:40going to be out in like a few weeks and
1:09:42there's going to be bugs or whatever but
1:09:43we'll get over it but it really does
1:09:45take these releases a while to settle
1:09:48down you mentioned how ten point six was
1:09:50so great in stable and ten six zero was
1:09:52not that great and ten six like in the
1:09:55early ten six versions I would I avoided
1:09:58upgrading some computers because I had
1:10:00upgraded other ones and seen a bunch of
1:10:01problems I'm like no I don't wanna deal
1:10:03with that an app incompatibility and all
1:10:04sorts of things where you know app
1:10:07having to battle you some of the Apple
1:10:08can control but it's like look if a
1:10:09bunch of my applications don't run right
1:10:11on Snow Leopard yet I'm not going to go
1:10:13to Snow Leopard yet so I wait a little
1:10:14bit ten six 110 62 then those app
1:10:16developers get around to okay here's the
1:10:18Snow Leopard native you know not in so
1:10:20awkward native but here's one that works
1:10:21with Snow Leopard we resolved that
1:10:23annoying bug and you know the you know
1:10:24so by the time you pull the trigger when
1:10:27it's up to ten six three ten six four or
1:10:28something all your apps are ready for
1:10:30apples worked out the worst of the bugs
1:10:32and then you get into like the salad
1:10:34days ten six five ten six six ten six
1:10:36seven ten six eight but time you the
1:10:381068 man ten six is solid right like
1:10:40that's what you're running on your
1:10:41little minis that are running headless
1:10:42somewhere right it's the latest version
1:10:45of United States that's what you that's
1:10:46what you want because you know you don't
1:10:48have to worry about it
1:10:49yeah and like but you know ten five when
1:10:51it's like 10 5 9 w got 10 5 10 and
1:10:53remember like by the time you get into
1:10:55those late dots you know they're not
1:10:56adding features anymore and they're just
1:10:58stamping out bugs and that's you know
1:11:01it's a confidence builder yeah and
1:11:03there's no reason you have to upgrade to
1:11:04a new operating system either you could
1:11:06say well if you're happy with that just
1:11:07stick with
1:11:07but Apple has just been so aggressive
1:11:10about encouraging people to upgrade to
1:11:13the next operating system that's
1:11:14sticking like for example sticking with
1:11:15ten six that's really tough like I have
1:11:18one machine left in my house that has
1:11:19ten six and like not a week goes by that
1:11:22I don't download an application and see
1:11:24a little circle with a line through it
1:11:25over the icon telling me oh this is ten
1:11:27seven only like I don't even think about
1:11:28it I just download it and I didn't look
1:11:30at the fine print and I get in my
1:11:31Applications folder yep sorry ten seven
1:11:33only like why is this ten seven only
1:11:35this thing has doesn't use any ten seven
1:11:37specific API is you know because Apple
1:11:39is so good and incurred you know it may
1:11:41be sin seven only because just because
1:11:42they wanted to use like some Objective C
1:11:45feature that only this in ten seven or
1:11:48is easier to use in ten seven they
1:11:49didn't have to worry about tens like
1:11:51there's so many reasons to follow apples
1:11:53lead it very quickly your ability to
1:11:56stand an old operating system and also
1:11:58continue to participate in the community
1:11:59of people developing new applications
1:12:01and updating existing applications is
1:12:03impaired so when the releases were
1:12:06longer and you had ten six five through
1:12:09eight or whatever then you could say
1:12:12like that's nice that the OS is changing
1:12:14much everybody's apps have been updated
1:12:16to be it's not to be you know Snow
1:12:18Leopard compatible and it's just there's
1:12:20a smooth sailing for a while before the
1:12:22next big disruption ah now what is Lian
1:12:25going to be up to before mountain lion
1:12:26comes out a lion is on ten seven three
1:12:28now is it even going to get to ten seven
1:12:31five before it's rudely replaced with 8
1:12:3310 8 zero yeah and then we're back into
1:12:35the bad times again right
1:12:37and that's exacerbated by the fact that
1:12:39some basic stuff that work that should
1:12:41work right in ten seven didn't work
1:12:43right in ten seven zero fine were used
1:12:45to that but we're on ten seven three and
1:12:47Safari is still blanking out my tabs and
1:12:50going all white and my mouse still
1:12:53occasionally you wake the computer up in
1:12:55the mouse won't move anymore I got a
1:12:56plug and unplug and that didn't happen
1:12:59on Snow Leopard and we're up to ten
1:13:00seventy three all right so maybe like
1:13:02just before mountain lion comes out ten
1:13:04seven four or five issues out and these
1:13:07problems disappear but then I got a
1:13:08whole new crop of problems like well we
1:13:09ever will be perpetually be in a state
1:13:12where we're in the immature wringing out
1:13:15period of an operating system if we're
1:13:16going to do you really releases and
1:13:17that's why I really hope Apple takes to
1:13:20heart this in
1:13:22churn rate and says we've got to be more
1:13:24conservative with what we change in
1:13:26these OS is we can't do you know that's
1:13:28maybe they go to a tick tock model
1:13:30because if they don't go to tick tock
1:13:31model I think users will tick tock model
1:13:32is you do one big radical change then
1:13:34you refine and you do one big radical
1:13:36change and then you're you're fine and
1:13:37it doesn't have to do with how much new
1:13:38wizzy stuff on this is on the screen has
1:13:40to do with like little annoying bugs
1:13:42like oh we changed the way Wi-Fi works
1:13:43and now Dan can't get his Wi-Fi work
1:13:46consuming only do that in I forget if
1:13:49it's the ticker the talk do that like
1:13:50every other release it's not a big
1:13:52headline feature like the little airport
1:13:53you know everything looks the same like
1:13:55they change but underneath it so they
1:13:57had to rip out the guts and totally
1:13:58replace it because they're they're
1:13:59revising the operating system fine good
1:14:01do that but only do the the totally
1:14:05overhauling Wi-Fi and one release and
1:14:07then the next release do not overhaul
1:14:08Wi-Fi again just hammer out the books
1:14:10right because no matter how an operating
1:14:12system is I'm respective of like do I
1:14:15like how the apps look do I like what
1:14:17they did to Mission Control versus
1:14:18expose and stuff like that that's not
1:14:20even though I'm talking about I'm
1:14:21talking about the basic functionality of
1:14:22like can't wake from sleep networking
1:14:25not reliable a little annoying niggling
1:14:29bugs that are like I'll come on do I do
1:14:30I even want to think about this anymore
1:14:32I don't want to think about Wi-Fi
1:14:33working it's just supposed to work and
1:14:34when it doesn't you feel just betrayed
1:14:36by the entire experience you know you
1:14:38don't even have time to get mad about
1:14:39Mission Control some other thing you're
1:14:40scrolling or whatever your pet peeve is
1:14:42UI wise because you I I'm willing to
1:14:44roll with the punches let them change
1:14:45because that stuff can change but if
1:14:46Wi-Fi doesn't work right man that makes
1:14:48me think oh I shouldn't have I shouldn't
1:14:50have up grid I don't know I don't have a
1:14:52lot of these problems of the blind but
1:14:53like the Safari one drives me nuts
1:14:55because they even backboard that to 10-6
1:14:57its downgraded experience in terms of
1:14:59reliability I held off on safari 5-1 for
1:15:02a really long time and you would think
1:15:03by 1073 that I would earn doubt nope
1:15:05they do not so if they're going to do
1:15:09that intend you know if they can do the
1:15:11type of cycle if if they keep doing this
1:15:13like if ten eight is just like ten seven
1:15:15has been then what people are going to
1:15:17say is well ten seven is finally
1:15:19stabilized to ten seven seven like with
1:15:21some security patch or you know whatever
1:15:23because they do continue to update them
1:15:25after the new one comes out with most
1:15:26people security updates right I'll say
1:15:28well I'm not gonna upgrade a 10-8 I'll
1:15:30wait for ten nine like skip every other
1:15:32release you know what I mean
1:15:34that will be users voting with their not
1:15:37so much but their wallets but with their
1:15:39you know with their point releases to
1:15:40say I can't be on the cycle I can't
1:15:42every single summer totally destroy my
1:15:45computer's ability to base to do basic
1:15:46functions and wait for two more point
1:15:48releases and if I say oh I'm not going
1:15:49to upgrade to ten eight until I get to
1:15:50ten eight four well then like ten nine
1:15:52is just being announced then all right
1:15:54so Apple really needs to if they're
1:15:57going to increase this like like this
1:15:58they really need to nail down the
1:16:01reliability otherwise either adoption
1:16:03curve is going to suffer or the
1:16:04reputation it's going to suffer because
1:16:05if they keep up the adoption curve by
1:16:07really encouraging everyone to just keep
1:16:08upgrade and upgrading people are going
1:16:10to start to think of max as being less
1:16:12reliable you know because these little
1:16:14you know point-o problems will still be
1:16:16there and and if they don't keep up the
1:16:19adoption curve then they're going to be
1:16:20in a situation where people are waiting
1:16:22and like well we just released ten eight
1:16:24why isn't everybody upgrading well
1:16:25because ten seven is finally settled
1:16:26down they don't want to go through that
1:16:27again so they're just going to wait for
1:16:28ten nine because they know it's coming
1:16:29next year you know I mean so this will
1:16:33be this is a puzzle for them and this by
1:16:37the way some people complained about
1:16:38that in my line review like why didn't
1:16:40you complain about all these little
1:16:40things that don't work every point zero
1:16:43is like that and when I write my review
1:16:45I'm writing off the dev free use and
1:16:46maybe I get to see the point zero I
1:16:48don't like to in an OS review say this
1:16:53is super buggy so you shouldn't buy this
1:16:54operating system because like the
1:16:55expiration date on that statement is
1:16:57usually pretty short and in in a month
1:17:01or a week or whatever when the point 1
1:17:03to point 2 comes out history is showing
1:17:05the most those things get ironed out I
1:17:06couldn't have predicted the future that
1:17:0810-7 was going to have these problems
1:17:09and they wouldn't be ironed out by the
1:17:11point one the point two or the point
1:17:12three right so I in all these ruse I
1:17:15have to say I don't even discuss the
1:17:17topic really I say look it's as reliable
1:17:20as I expect 2.0 to be and these minor
1:17:24issues are going to ironed out now I
1:17:25think in a 10-8 review I have to
1:17:26acknowledge the fact that didn't work
1:17:28out so well for ten seven if they are
1:17:29going to advance this cycle it's
1:17:31something we need to think about in
1:17:33terms of reviewing it I don't think it's
1:17:34fair to to ding the OS and say you
1:17:37shouldn't upgrade to this because that's
1:17:39kind of like implicit in all the things
1:17:40like look don't upgrade until all your
1:17:41apps are ready until it's settled down
1:17:44or whatever but overall what they're
1:17:46trying to do with this OS gets thumbs up
1:17:48thumbs down
1:17:48sideways you know so I don't have to
1:17:52think about that for ten eight I will
1:17:54probably just judge the features and new
1:17:56applications on on their intentions and
1:18:00their implementation and not get hung up
1:18:02on predicting the future of niggling
1:18:06little bugs so what do you think it's
1:18:13nothing less than I expected for me I
1:18:19really wish I do could talk about the
1:18:21internals because there are some talk
1:18:22about them but now I can't do it can't
1:18:24do it it's under its under NDA why would
1:18:29today was supposed to be they were to
1:18:30talk about file systems remember that I
1:18:32do remember that that's a long time ago
1:18:33I still have notes on that I have not
1:18:36looked so I can say this without fear of
1:18:38breaking NDA but my guess is that
1:18:41nothing exciting happening on the file
1:18:43system front tonight but I don't know
1:18:44that for a fact because I literally have
1:18:45not looked but I will be sad if that's
1:18:48true very sad and we can talk about why
1:18:51perhaps on another show yeah I'm glad
1:18:56that well so a couple couple of
1:18:59questions I guess that are sort of
1:19:00related to the way that you will maybe
1:19:03be writing this review and using what
1:19:06are your plans then immediately will you
1:19:09be confiscating your wife's computer
1:19:11will you be installing
1:19:13molo on it I installed it and ran it on
1:19:17I mean I have many disks so I installed
1:19:19it and played with it on my Mac Pro last
1:19:20night but when I'm writing my review I
1:19:25like to have like my environment on my
1:19:27Mac Pro to do the writing sure and I
1:19:29don't like to sort of and I like to be
1:19:31testing a pretty clean machine so I have
1:19:33a dedicated iCloud account just for
1:19:35review writing so it's not it's not my
1:19:38real contacts it's not my real stuff
1:19:39it's not the accumulated cruft of
1:19:41twenty-something years of me bringing
1:19:44high information around like I don't
1:19:45want it to try something in the OS and
1:19:46have it not work because I have some
1:19:48corrupted preference file from ten years
1:19:49ago so I like to have a nice clean
1:19:50install a new Apple ID and just get like
1:19:53the experience that a new user would get
1:19:54setting everything up and doing things
1:19:56so that's why I need a second computer
1:19:59now since the line
1:20:02interview when I did me this deal my
1:20:03wife's computer to have hers running
1:20:04line next to me she's since gotten a new
1:20:07computer she has 11 and Jer now with the
1:20:09big Thunderbolt Display and everything
1:20:11so the old MacBook Pro that's like the
1:20:14pre unibody MacBook Pro the one right
1:20:16before that is completely free for me to
1:20:18use and not have to bother her computer
1:20:20at all of course so that's what I did
1:20:22today I've installed mountain lion on it
1:20:24booted up logged in and core image
1:20:27doesn't work so nothing draws the menus
1:20:29don't draw I can't launch any
1:20:30applications I can just sit there
1:20:32looking at the doc in the menus I can't
1:20:33even pull down a menu so some sort of
1:20:36GPU driver bug in the previous is
1:20:38previous and the preview release of
1:20:40mountain lion which means that I cannot
1:20:41actually use her MacBook Pro until I
1:20:43guess the next Developer Preview so I
1:20:46was trying to install it in VMware I
1:20:48heard you say that people were saying
1:20:50that they did not have success
1:20:51installing mountain lion in VMware but
1:20:52I've heard from at least one person who
1:20:54has had success instilling that mind
1:20:56VMware so so the person I don't know the
1:20:58details of the person I had just seen
1:21:00Arnold Kim who does the MacRumors stuff
1:21:03uh that's he doesn't he does the Mac
1:21:06rumors right I yes I think so yeah so he
1:21:09had retweeted somebody else who had a
1:21:12screenshot of the kernel of a kernel
1:21:14panic when trying to give it who knows I
1:21:17mean that was that was done near 24
1:21:19hours ago a lot has happened since the
1:21:21VMware is touchy like in preparation for
1:21:25getting mountain lion on island update
1:21:26update my line VM 210 73 because it was
1:21:30on ten 72 because I hadn't run it in a
1:21:31while and by the way running lion in
1:21:33VMware is actually officially supported
1:21:35and allowed it's not some illicit thing
1:21:36like VMware supports that you're allowed
1:21:37to do it it works without any hoops
1:21:39jumping through just straightforward
1:21:40install and during the ten seven two to
1:21:43three update in VMware this progress bar
1:21:47like stop the midway through I noticed
1:21:48that time machine was grinding the disc
1:21:50so I saw all right stop time machine
1:21:52don't back up you know stop backing up
1:21:54let let VMware go and VMware would not
1:21:56progress anymore and I'm assuming it's
1:22:00some sort of weird interaction of like
1:22:01file locking or maybe there's some sort
1:22:03of deadlock or where VMware is waiting
1:22:05for permission from a lock acquired by
1:22:07time machine to continue its work if
1:22:09someone wasn't thinking along those
1:22:11lines and wasn't running like FS usage
1:22:13like I was from the command line and
1:22:14whether you know DTrace type stuff to
1:22:16figure out what the heck's going on they
1:22:18may just assume that it's impossible to
1:22:19upgrade from ten seventy two to three
1:22:21and vmware but it's not true it's just
1:22:23they I'm assuming somewhere there's some
1:22:25sort of like deadlock situation so what
1:22:27I did was totally shut down the vm
1:22:29machine quit the application to release
1:22:31all locks turned off time machine
1:22:33brought the thing back up redid the
1:22:34update from from the last snapshot and
1:22:36suddenly it worked so the people who
1:22:38tried to install mountain lion in the
1:22:40kernel panicked you know maybe something
1:22:43else was going on that was angering
1:22:44vmware because it's you know it's the
1:22:46type of thing where it that's why i
1:22:48think it's totally plausible that
1:22:50somebody was successful in somebody was
1:22:52not or that somebody was successful with
1:22:53their second try but not with their
1:22:54first try so i maintain hope that it
1:22:56will that i will be able to install it
1:22:58and I also hope that whatever the next
1:22:59developer preview of mountain lion is
1:23:01will install on my wife's old laptop so
1:23:02I don't have to steal her macbook air
1:23:04again which she has angrily forbidden me
1:23:07from doing but what's the other yeah you
1:23:11know it's also actually I don't even
1:23:12think I can do that because like I said
1:23:13I steal the air and I put it on the desk
1:23:15next to me obviously I'm not going to
1:23:16actually install mountain lion on the
1:23:18air like it's always on an external
1:23:19drive but then how do I connect the
1:23:20external drive to the air I don't have
1:23:22any thunderbolt drives and all the
1:23:24external drives that are currently
1:23:25connected are computer are done through
1:23:26the Thunderbolt Display and that's all
1:23:28in the other side of the rooms not
1:23:29movable so I'll have to figure something
1:23:31out
1:23:32or I could just try to get a writing
1:23:34environment up in Mountain Lion I mean I
1:23:36suppose I could do that just it doesn't
1:23:40feel right to me like having a separate
1:23:41stuff but now that you're on a yearly
1:23:43cycle for this I would think that you
1:23:47would need a computer that you could
1:23:48dedicate for this it's clearly something
1:23:50you're going to need it's not like
1:23:52you're going to get you know three years
1:23:54in between your reviews anymore you'll
1:23:56be you will be working on this on an
1:23:58ongoing basis you will require a
1:24:01dedicated computer for this I would
1:24:05think that you need to acquire one well
1:24:08in the natural cycle of recycling
1:24:11computers that should happen like my
1:24:12wife's MacBook Pro which is you know
1:24:14it's got four gigs of RAM it's it's a
1:24:15quality machine it's nothing wrong with
1:24:17it it's it's perfectly capable of
1:24:19running a mountain line even though it's
1:24:20not you know it's not even a unibody
1:24:22MacBook Pro so it in theory that should
1:24:24be like oh she gets a new computer and I
1:24:26use her old one and if they
1:24:27make new Mac Pros come out Ivybridge
1:24:29Marco thank kill me if they ever produce
1:24:33numerous a new Mac Pro I will buy one
1:24:36pretty quickly and then I'll have an old
1:24:38Mac Pro this machine is still awesome
1:24:39that I'm using right now and that old
1:24:41Mac Pro would become the machine so I
1:24:42don't feel like I need to buy a separate
1:24:44machine for it I should just have them
1:24:45as a natural process of me constantly
1:24:46getting new Macs it's just for in a
1:24:48weird situation here where the Mac Pro
1:24:50refuses to ever be updated and the one
1:24:53machine that I have it's perfect for our
1:24:54testing mountain lion on the particular
1:24:56developer preview that we have available
1:25:00now is angry Cory Cory image is very
1:25:02angry is the core image it could have
1:25:04been CL instead of C I couldn't tell
1:25:06from the font it could if it was CL it
1:25:08could be an open CL thing I don't know
1:25:10yeah I don't know anyway
1:25:12graphics drivers angry there are you
1:25:14angry on that machine so it's useless
1:25:16Gruber says that I should end my show
1:25:19early and sit in a talk-show I can't
1:25:21tell if he's joking um be great if you
1:25:24want to but you you have to stop that
1:25:26I'm trying to bring it and that's that
1:25:28so we can do his show
1:25:29that's hot job you got to tell me that
1:25:31you said we got a hard stop at 1:30 is
1:25:33like all you got to go somewhere be some
1:25:34it's just Gruber that's not hard stop
1:25:35come on like he's ever gonna be there
1:25:371:30 exactly he says he's listening
1:25:39right now he is that is that's this is
1:25:41strange he's actually here listening
1:25:43live I don't think I don't know if he
1:25:44ever does is maybe sick okay anyway I'm
1:25:48all done so I will stop at 1:30 as
1:25:52requests you don't want to sit in you
1:25:53don't wanna be part of the talk shop
1:25:54I'll sit in for a little while I can't
1:25:56sit him for the whole show if he really
1:25:59wants that I don't know if he's just
1:26:00kidding well do you get it you
1:26:01straighten out with him if you really
1:26:02want to do it we're gonna end this show
1:26:05first night yeah well end well so we'll
1:26:06end this show so here's what you got to
1:26:08do you want to follow this guy on
1:26:11Twitter follow Syracuse at nosy si RAC
1:26:16us a nosy in there and you now you're
1:26:20blogging now you're writing recipes is a
1:26:22pasta how to make pasta so maybe tell
1:26:25what's the URL for that
1:26:26that's Sark use that a tumblr calm
1:26:29because I didn't come up with a good
1:26:30domain for it I think that is a good
1:26:32domain in 2012 that's whatever all the
1:26:34kids have that yeah I like that almost
1:26:37once a year can you put that into the
1:26:39show notes can you
1:26:41we'll do that even though we have not
1:26:42discussed it I'll put in the show all
1:26:43right now we have discussed well we have
1:26:45so the show notes five by five TV slash
1:26:47hypercritical slash fifty-five and we
1:26:52want to say thanks very much to the the
1:26:53lovely ladies at help spot calm the best
1:26:56darn help desk software in the business
1:27:01so go check them out to their supporters
1:27:05of this show you can follow me on
1:27:06twitter i'm dan benjamin and by the way
1:27:08we just wanted to mention one more thing
1:27:11which is last week you could not record
1:27:13so we did a I don't know if it was
1:27:16authorized or unauthorized but you you
1:27:19didn't want it in the hyper critical
1:27:20stream which is understandable it wasn't
1:27:23a hyper critical show it was kind of
1:27:25critical yeah you can call it kind of
1:27:27critical it's a different show kind of
1:27:28critical Marco Arment and Merlin Mann
1:27:31joined me for a tribute to you where we
1:27:34criticize some things and so that
1:27:38episode 54 was not hypocritical is the
1:27:42tribute yeah that was straight little
1:27:46Jack Black reference for those of you in
1:27:48the audience so we had episodes for
1:27:52hypercritical is actually just a public
1:27:54service announcement it was a non
1:27:55episode and I only received one
1:27:57complaint about that somebody who said
1:28:00it paraphrasing but I I was all ready to
1:28:04go and I hopped in the car and I was
1:28:06ready for my hypercritical and instead I
1:28:09got this crap you're telling me there
1:28:11was no hypercritical shame on you and to
1:28:14that person and anybody else who had the
1:28:15similar experience I apologize that was
1:28:18why I did want it to go into the stream
1:28:20so that would not happen so I'm sorry if
1:28:22I let you down but if you have if you
1:28:24want to complain to someone about that
1:28:25complain to me because I will not let
1:28:27anything in the hypercritical feed that
1:28:28does not feature me no not going to
1:28:31happen I think that's perfectly valid to
1:28:33your show and for people who didn't like
1:28:35it this is why you should always
1:28:36subscribe to these special feeds
1:28:37subscribe to the after-dark subscribe to
1:28:39the special subscribe to at the movies
1:28:41they're low volume they're not there all
1:28:42the time but you want to have them on
1:28:43your iPod so just put them in there yeah
1:28:45so shame on them yes alright well thanks
1:28:49everybody for tuning in and we will be
1:28:51back again next week by
1:29:02you