50: Maximum Deflection in All Directions


  [Music] [TS]

  you're listening to hypercritical weekly [TS]

  talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

  wrong in the world of Apple related [TS]

  technologies and businesses [TS]

  nothing is so perfect that it cannot be [TS]

  complained about by my co-host John [TS]

  siracusa i'm dan benjamin today is [TS]

  Friday January 13th Friday the 13th John [TS]

  it's episode number 50:50 is like a big [TS]

  episode so maybe it'll counteract the [TS]

  fact that it is the 13th I'm sure you're [TS]

  not superstitious harvest though one of [TS]

  our first sponsors and Rackspace another [TS]

  sponsor will tell you about more those [TS]

  as we continue with our program today we [TS]

  also should mention the bandwidth for [TS]

  this episode is provided by vid me up [TS]

  comm a free service that allows you to [TS]

  create your own video cite your videos [TS]

  your branding vid me up calm how are you [TS]

  John siracusa good do you know what what [TS]

  occasion this anniversary is sorry this [TS]

  episode is wow I've just told you well I [TS]

  mind well my understanding from people [TS]

  on Twitter is that this is he apparently [TS]

  it's been a year it's been one year [TS]

  almost the very first show we recorded [TS]

  was was released to iTunes anyway that [TS]

  date in iTunes is the 14th of January [TS]

  last year it's pretty cool today is the [TS]

  13th so this is our one-year anniversary [TS]

  I did a little little then select select [TS]

  all in iTunes dance or select all in [TS]

  iTunes they're very similar to figure [TS]

  out what the total amount of audio that [TS]

  had been released to the show on iTunes [TS]

  said 2.8 days so how 67 hours of audio [TS]

  sure does feel like it does is it you [TS]

  feel the weight of every one of those [TS]

  minutes sitting on your shoulders I do [TS]

  yeah it seems like a lot to me do I mean [TS]

  it's a been a good year though 50 [TS]

  episodes you know it's like what is the [TS]

  50th anniversary what do you do for that [TS]

  is that is that is that a silver [TS]

  particle board I don't know it I'm not [TS]

  sure styrofoam I don't I can't keep [TS]

  track of something something [TS]

  all right we got a one thing I want to [TS]

  mention I don't and you said you don't [TS]

  know if we'll get to it alright but I [TS]

  have I have a clip cued up yes before [TS]

  the show John said Dan there's a clip [TS]

  that I would like to play is that [TS]

  possible I said course it's possible I [TS]

  will do everything in my power not to [TS]

  also play other clips throughout the [TS]

  show that I know that will be hard they [TS]

  would be I appreciate your restraint be [TS]

  a huge challenge for example when you [TS]

  make a point I love it I will do my best [TS]

  not to have applause you know if that [TS]

  kind of thing I will not yeah I will not [TS]

  I will restrain fully restrain myself [TS]

  the name of the show is not the mornings [TS]

  ooh okay not yet no despite despite my [TS]

  suggestion it is not called the morning [TS]

  soon yeah so we have a ton of feedback I [TS]

  think the last show of where we talked [TS]

  about I rambled about video game stuff [TS]

  incoherently for a while then at the [TS]

  very end did a little tour of video game [TS]

  controllers and the point of that was to [TS]

  I did have a point my point was to [TS]

  complain about the PlayStation [TS]

  controller but to do that first I felt [TS]

  like I needed to provide some context to [TS]

  to illuminate what I was I was saying [TS]

  and we got a tremendous amount of [TS]

  feedback a lot of people mostly on the [TS]

  controller stuff but on all sorts of [TS]

  video game related stuff I don't know if [TS]

  this is the most feedback we ever got [TS]

  for an episode but I think it's the [TS]

  highest volume of information and [TS]

  quality feedback like if you just do an [TS]

  opinion show or bond or not the other [TS]

  shows I talked about we get feedback but [TS]

  it's kind of like agree disagree or have [TS]

  your own opinion but this was just [TS]

  filled with people they want to tell [TS]

  their stories about their experiences [TS]

  with controllers to add information to [TS]

  tell me things that I missed huge amount [TS]

  of feedback I didn't want to do a whole [TS]

  other show about video game controllers [TS]

  because I feel like people might be [TS]

  getting sick of it but the people who [TS]

  are getting sick of it I can tell you [TS]

  that we've had other long stretches like [TS]

  this where we did like three or four [TS]

  shows in a row by programming languages [TS]

  you know I'm here to tell you that we'll [TS]

  get through it together like it will end [TS]

  and there will be another topic and sign [TS]

  maybe that will be the topic that you [TS]

  like and in several more so hang in [TS]

  there I think we have to do one more [TS]

  I'm trying to constrain this to just the [TS]

  discussion of the previous episode about [TS]

  video game controllers because I'm not [TS]

  going if I expand it out into like let's [TS]

  all talk about video games forever and [TS]

  ever like that's that's a whole show [TS]

  it's a whole big thing so I'm just going [TS]

  to try to confine the feedback to the [TS]

  stuff we talked about on the last show [TS]

  but even before we get to that I've got [TS]

  feedback several shows back or maybe I [TS]

  can even keep track of how many shows [TS]

  back as well so let's start here this is [TS]

  from Matthew Bogart he's calling back to [TS]

  the episode where we talked about music [TS]

  they're encoding of whether we like to [TS]

  listen to music during coding mostly [TS]

  about the types of the things we can we [TS]

  can do while listening to music with [TS]

  lyrics without lyrics like can you write [TS]

  prose when you listen listen to music [TS]

  can you do programming can you debug and [TS]

  he brought up a passage from a book [TS]

  about richard fineman it's called what [TS]

  do you care what other people think and [TS]

  a subtitle is further adventures of a [TS]

  curious character there are several [TS]

  books about richard fineman he was a [TS]

  very smart fellow and a very interesting [TS]

  fellow it had a fabulous accent that I [TS]

  love and this this is like stories from [TS]

  his life I think it's what does it say [TS]

  it's Rick Richard Kleiman as told by [TS]

  ralph leighton i don't know what as told [TS]

  by means i guess they're relaying [TS]

  stories that he told them but it's [TS]

  written kind of in first person as if [TS]

  richard fineman was saying it himself [TS]

  and this chapter that he pointed me to [TS]

  his call is as simple as one two three i [TS]

  have a link to the chapter which you can [TS]

  download for free as a PDF from caltech [TS]

  for some reason just just the chapter [TS]

  and is also an amazon link to the book [TS]

  of your honor read the whole book and [TS]

  this little anecdote was about a richard [TS]

  fineman [TS]

  telling a bunch of his friends and [TS]

  colleagues all the things that he can do [TS]

  while he's counting to himself like he [TS]

  can keep an accurate count until i tell [TS]

  you when a minute has elapsed while he's [TS]

  doing many other things and he said the [TS]

  only thing that he absolutely couldn't [TS]

  do while counting to himself was talk [TS]

  but he could do tons of other stuff [TS]

  including a read and one of the other [TS]

  people there said i don't believe that [TS]

  you can read when you're counting to [TS]

  yourself so they tested them they would [TS]

  say you know read this passage aloud to [TS]

  yourself or whatever and count in your [TS]

  head and tell us when you get to one [TS]

  minute and this other guy named John [TS]

  Tukey said I don't believe you [TS]

  read but he said I'll bet you that I can [TS]

  talk when I'm counting to myself and [TS]

  Richard Fineman I thought that was you [TS]

  know interesting that he claimed he [TS]

  could do something that he could not and [TS]

  so they did this competition and sure [TS]

  enough this John Tukey I could count to [TS]

  himself fairly accurately while he's uh [TS]

  while he's talking which is something a [TS]

  rich fireman couldn't do and they and [TS]

  they tried to puzzle it out see what's [TS]

  going on here and what they figured out [TS]

  was that when Tookie was counting in his [TS]

  head while he was while he was talking [TS]

  he was he was doing it a different way [TS]

  than finally what he was doing was [TS]

  visualizing a tape with numbers on it [TS]

  slowly sliding by in his mind and thus [TS]

  not engaging the language centers to [TS]

  keep count [TS]

  whereas Richard Fineman was counting his [TS]

  head he was doing one two you know [TS]

  engaging the language centers to count [TS]

  in his own head I thought this was [TS]

  fascinating that like here are these [TS]

  geniuses who are probing the limits of [TS]

  what their minds can do and finding out [TS]

  that different minds do can do what we [TS]

  think the same the same thing I'll [TS]

  counting your head everyone does that [TS]

  the same way well it's amazing diversity [TS]

  of things that go on people's heads when [TS]

  we think we're all talking about the [TS]

  same thing we're not I think the point [TS]

  of the episode was he was thinking about [TS]

  what yeah and that's for something [TS]

  simple like counting imagine the [TS]

  diversity of things that go on in [TS]

  people's heads when doing complex [TS]

  mathematics or the other things that [TS]

  these guys did for a living and for the [TS]

  research I must be such a huge [TS]

  divergence between what everyone thinks [TS]

  is doing the same thing working out an [TS]

  equation or whatever that the things [TS]

  that happen things that are happening [TS]

  people's brains are so wildly different [TS]

  so I recommend reading as many books [TS]

  about Richard Feynman as you can I've [TS]

  read a couple of them and if you even if [TS]

  you can don't buy the book there's lots [TS]

  of anecdotes you can find on the web [TS]

  it's very interesting [TS]

  so that thank you to matthew Bogart for [TS]

  that I'll do a little bit on maths maths [TS]

  as we know is what the English people I [TS]

  don't even know what the column see [TS]

  they'll just yell at me about that what [TS]

  would you like to to try to categorize [TS]

  the people who live on the various [TS]

  islands to the north of France ah they [TS]

  know the British people the English [TS]

  people I think I think British sounds [TS]

  good all right I'll just say people in [TS]

  the UK they say math than in America we [TS]

  say math without the S well I [TS]

  we did get one good explanation and you [TS]

  probably have a note as to who sent it [TS]

  but I can't remember if we saw it on [TS]

  Twitter or if it was sent via the [TS]

  contact form but they said that maths [TS]

  plural like that is short for [TS]

  mathematics yes I thought that was [TS]

  obvious I didn't write the name down [TS]

  because yes of course we know I mean you [TS]

  did you know is short for mathematics I [TS]

  did yes but I having it put that way in [TS]

  that context makes sense in that you're [TS]

  shortening the word mathematics and it [TS]

  shorts down to mass yeah as opposed to [TS]

  just math no that's I know the [TS]

  explanation I had heard that my time so [TS]

  many many people told us that as if we [TS]

  didn't know that and then that's why I'm [TS]

  X that's the the canonical explanation [TS]

  of like well of course it should be [TS]

  maths because it's mathematic short and [TS]

  they give many other examples of all the [TS]

  words and ends and s when you shorten [TS]

  them you keep the s you know we know [TS]

  that was just not the way it works in [TS]

  America and it sounds very strange to us [TS]

  that was the only point of that thing [TS]

  not that we didn't under that they [TS]

  thought it was it does sound crazy to us [TS]

  but not crazy as in we can't think of a [TS]

  logical reason for it but just because [TS]

  if you're brought up hearing something [TS]

  in a particular way any other way sounds [TS]

  crazy that's why I did put a link in the [TS]

  show notes to a wonderful British [TS]

  explanation of mass if you would like to [TS]

  know from the British television program [TS]

  look around you which reveals that maths [TS]

  is actually an acronym and it stands for [TS]

  an ultra truth justice mathematical [TS]

  aunty tell har Sahar farting Septimus so [TS]

  I would suggest everyone take a look at [TS]

  look around you it's an excellent [TS]

  program very educational and brought to [TS]

  you by these fine people on those [TS]

  islands to the north of France alright [TS]

  before we get to controllers we have one [TS]

  piece of feedback on the show we did a [TS]

  while back that covered some of the [TS]

  history of Nintendo Jonathan Flynn [TS]

  writes in to tell us that the NES didn't [TS]

  quite come out of nowhere like when I [TS]

  talked about the show I said they made [TS]

  playing cards and then they were trying [TS]

  to find a way to make money and they [TS]

  have done the love hotels and the [TS]

  instant rice and all these other things [TS]

  and he wanted to point out that there [TS]

  are a bunch of things in tender did they [TS]

  were not quite as the Virgin as love [TS]

  hotels and in rising taxi services there [TS]

  were vaguely toy related so there's a [TS]

  site called [TS]

  the URLs blogged up before [TS]

  m├írio calm and it has a huge list of [TS]

  the toys and games that Nintendo made [TS]

  before making the NES and there's like a [TS]

  little baseball type game that you hold [TS]

  in your hand mechanical baseball gay and [TS]

  a rollercoaster thing some Lego looking [TS]

  toys a love tester yes as it's [TS]

  electronic device at least toy guns you [TS]

  can check out that page and see all the [TS]

  toys they may before they got in tendo [TS]

  so it's clear they were going in the toy [TS]

  direction they just hadn't really found [TS]

  anything that's stuck until I got to the [TS]

  NES alright time for controllers so [TS]

  first some general feedback and [TS]

  controllers that I mentioned the [TS]

  octagonal surround around joysticks in [TS]

  the past show and how I like that uh [TS]

  Nintendo's controllers according to Andy [TS]

  Herbert the technical term for that is [TS]

  octagonal restrictor gate and they [TS]

  existed in arcade machines long before [TS]

  they existed in NES home devices which [TS]

  makes sense if you think about the way [TS]

  joysticks work on arcade machines even [TS]

  if there wasn't a visible on the surface [TS]

  it was underneath so pac-man had a [TS]

  four-way once of the pac-man game it had [TS]

  what looked like an analog stick but [TS]

  there was a restrictor gate under there [TS]

  that made it clear when you're going [TS]

  exactly up left-right something of worth [TS]

  another one said eight way gates on them [TS]

  some people like those things some [TS]

  people don't we'll talk more about that [TS]

  as we go on to later sections on [TS]

  controllers controller prototypes which [TS]

  I didn't really talk about are actually [TS]

  very interesting and this comes up [TS]

  because in finding links for the further [TS]

  stuff we're going to talk about in [TS]

  controllers I found a lot of old links [TS]

  to prototype controls and I remember [TS]

  being very excited about seeing what the [TS]

  new controller would look like on the [TS]

  consoles that actually changed our [TS]

  controller from generation to generation [TS]

  so I put in some links to the prototype [TS]

  controllers for the NES and even some [TS]

  prototype controllers for the [TS]

  PlayStation I want to pull some of those [TS]

  up now so I can look at them and discuss [TS]

  them so the Sony prototyping tools that [TS]

  I'm looking at that I put links into are [TS]

  just foam mock-ups and an operational an [TS]

  or anything and they do look very [TS]

  similar to the [TS]

  the current playstation controller or [TS]

  the original playstation troll it's got [TS]

  deep data lap the little horns two [TS]

  circles two shoulder buttons the [TS]

  interesting part to me is that the [TS]

  buttons on the button portion of the [TS]

  controller and at least one model aren't [TS]

  exactly north-south-east-west [TS]

  perpendicular to the straight line body [TS]

  of the controller one of them has four [TS]

  buttons and arranged in a very strange [TS]

  kind of like a burners on a stove type [TS]

  pattern and they're tilted at an angle [TS]

  to sort of like the angle your thumb [TS]

  might lay over them so it shows that in [TS]

  the very beginning before the place they [TS]

  can even exist it is a real product [TS]

  notice making foam mock-ups they did [TS]

  have controllers that you know had some [TS]

  acknowledgment of how you might hold [TS]

  them versus simply being you know a line [TS]

  drawing with everything at right angles [TS]

  in some CAD programs somewhere and I [TS]

  also put in some links to the gamecube [TS]

  controller prototypes you can see that [TS]

  they publicly showed a bunch of stuff [TS]

  where they fiddled around with the [TS]

  buttons on their controllers the handles [TS]

  used to be much longer and wider instead [TS]

  of having a d-pad below the big analog [TS]

  stick they had a model with the head a [TS]

  red button down there the kidney shaped [TS]

  buttons that surrounded the giant a [TS]

  button on the GameCube controller used [TS]

  to all be kidneys instead of making the [TS]

  B button round there was a couple [TS]

  different models that they were actually [TS]

  willing to show to the public that [TS]

  looked very similar but were different [TS]

  in subtle ways it wasn't intended was [TS]

  constantly refining this playtesting [TS]

  refining play testing and refining all [TS]

  right so I got a try-hard on this last [TS]

  man what do you do with it when I same [TS]

  has two L's in a row it depends on if [TS]

  it's a in the begin banish'd name then [TS]

  it's a why sound right oh that's a I [TS]

  didn't know that I don't know if it's a [TS]

  spy don't know who you're the first name [TS]

  is Marcelino son Spanish Tim it could be [TS]

  Marcelino Yan oh yeah alright we go with [TS]

  that yeah so he went dead I was talking [TS]

  about why why the NES controller is a [TS]

  rectangle and the straight lines and [TS]

  these things and he says that sometimes [TS]

  the forms of shapes emerge from the [TS]

  convenience of the machines that produce [TS]

  them so extruding and revolution [TS]

  processes molds restrictions and [TS]

  sometimes get in the way what you really [TS]

  want to make [TS]

  and that's especially true back in the [TS]

  past right some machines we have now are [TS]

  much more complicated advanced than they [TS]

  were then so one of the reasons it's not [TS]

  just industrial designers like straight [TS]

  lines and everything because they're [TS]

  easy to draw with their pencils and [TS]

  their you know drafting desks in 1962 [TS]

  it's because you know computers can do [TS]

  curved lines anything but sometimes you [TS]

  have to make something can be made by [TS]

  the machines there are restrictions on [TS]

  what we've got we've got an extrude [TS]

  oisin and then the rules of extreme [TS]

  oisin is you can't have walls thinner [TS]

  than this and you can't have curved [TS]

  sharper than that or you can't have [TS]

  sharp parts like this because we're [TS]

  cracks will forming or you have some [TS]

  sort of routing machine that can only do [TS]

  certain radius isn't that there are many [TS]

  restrictions imposed by the machines if [TS]

  you want to get something that's cheap [TS]

  to manufacture and yeah the thing that [TS]

  makes the cheapest you have an existing [TS]

  machine it does the type of move and you [TS]

  have to work within the constraints of [TS]

  that machine it makes a point at the end [TS]

  that modern companies especially [TS]

  companies like Apple er are changing [TS]

  that by instead of saying well what kind [TS]

  of machines do you have for shaping you [TS]

  know plastic or metal and then we'll try [TS]

  to design something that can be cheaply [TS]

  produced by those machines they do it [TS]

  the opposite as he says they create the [TS]

  machine to create the shape so Apple [TS]

  decides what they want the thing to look [TS]

  like and then they hire someone to build [TS]

  a machine can will make that shape [TS]

  efficiently for them like so it's it's [TS]

  the reverse process and obviously that's [TS]

  much more expensive involves big capital [TS]

  investment and tooling and everything [TS]

  like that but when you're big company [TS]

  like Apple you can do it especially back [TS]

  decades ago I think menu ease of [TS]

  manufacturing and the type of process is [TS]

  available especially for a mass-market [TS]

  product like a game console that's been [TS]

  mass-produced and sturdy and also had to [TS]

  be cheap those were definitely factors [TS]

  my wife was listening to the show [TS]

  yesterday and the two bits that she [TS]

  wanted added was to remind me that the [TS]

  listeners cannot see my hand movements [TS]

  so apparently during the entire [TS]

  controller you were gesturing yes [TS]

  gesturing with my hands to show how a [TS]

  controller will be held when shape it is [TS]

  sketching out things in the air with my [TS]

  hand so I apologize to people who could [TS]

  not see my hands but trust me that they [TS]

  definitely added a lot to the [TS]

  explanation maybe we could do I mean you [TS]

  know most of the time we don't do video [TS]

  we're fully capable of doing video maybe [TS]

  the next time that we do something like [TS]

  that we could record all of your all of [TS]

  your movements and gestures well I [TS]

  don't know if that's worth the downsides [TS]

  of video but yeah at aliens always talk [TS]

  with their hands and I'm no exception [TS]

  especially when trying to describe [TS]

  something that you hold alright so let's [TS]

  get to the meat of the controller stuff [TS]

  finally controller omissions lots of [TS]

  people wanted to write in to tell me [TS]

  about the controllers that I left out or [TS]

  the things that I left out about always [TS]

  talk about right Andrew yang writes in [TS]

  to tell me that I did not mention the [TS]

  shoulder buttons on the SNES I thought I [TS]

  did but I went back and listened then [TS]

  he's right I didn't I should have they [TS]

  could and yes NES did have shoulder [TS]

  buttons on it ad they that could have [TS]

  been some of the explanation for the [TS]

  curved corners because your fingers kind [TS]

  of wrap around but the shoulder buttons [TS]

  were mostly on top so I put in the [TS]

  shownotes link to what those shoulder [TS]

  buttons look like Sega Genesis [TS]

  controller that's one that a lot of [TS]

  people wrote in about and that I [TS]

  definitely should not have omitted I [TS]

  don't know how that slipped my mind [TS]

  there but in retrospect it's definitely [TS]

  one of the controllers that I should [TS]

  have talked about in my tour of of [TS]

  significant controllers obviously I [TS]

  couldn't get every controller like I [TS]

  knew I wasn't going to be able to put in [TS]

  something about every single controller [TS]

  that uh people want to hear about but [TS]

  the Genesis was fairly significant so [TS]

  I'll talk a little bit about it now I [TS]

  put the picture in the show notes if you [TS]

  can pull that up you know what I'm [TS]

  talking about and if you're listening [TS]

  you can pull it up and know what I'm [TS]

  talking about unless you're had a Sega [TS]

  Genesis and you already know how do I [TS]

  get how do they get to the show notes so [TS]

  it's five by five TV slash hypercritical [TS]

  slash number of the episode right in [TS]

  this case 55 Oh yep and we want to say [TS]

  thanks Allah to help spot com for making [TS]

  the show notes possible yeah and on the [TS]

  show notes the last episode had the [TS]

  longest show notes I think by far Vani [TS]

  also have ever done and totally huge [TS]

  list of Link's is great I think this [TS]

  episode will also have a big list links [TS]

  they already added a whole bunch on [TS]

  there so the Genesis controller predates [TS]

  the the SNES controller it has a d-pad [TS]

  on the left but it's an eight-way pad [TS]

  because you've got the regular d-pad and [TS]

  then you've also got like the 45s that [TS]

  you can tip it at on the right it's got [TS]

  three buttons in kind of an arc on an [TS]

  angle to where so your thumb can sweep [TS]

  across them and it's got a start button [TS]

  up there but the shape of it it's not a [TS]

  rectangle it's kind of like a boomerang [TS]

  with tiny little sort of nubs instead of [TS]

  horns like they weren't ready to go [TS]

  full-fledged modern controller horns [TS]

  poking up the bottom but it does have [TS]

  these little nubs that you could like [TS]

  loop your fingers around to get a little [TS]

  leverage on the buttons it's much more [TS]

  it it's definitely more ergonomic than [TS]

  the SNES controller which had things [TS]

  kind of at right-angles here and there [TS]

  are and it was basically a straight body [TS]

  but it's also kind of more organic and [TS]

  this is where things get confusing like [TS]

  is it there's a distinction between [TS]

  organic and organic organic shapes is [TS]

  like oh there's no straight lines no [TS]

  right angles and people tend to think [TS]

  things that have organic shapes are [TS]

  ergonomically that have organic shapes [TS]

  are done for style reasons like the [TS]

  bodies of most modern cars have shapes [TS]

  that you could say or organic they're [TS]

  shaped like like a sack filled with [TS]

  water or muscles stretching over [TS]

  something or they're curved shapes that [TS]

  remind you of living things but no one [TS]

  is holding a car in their hand you know [TS]

  it's not it's not that shape you know [TS]

  aerodynamic something to do with - but [TS]

  it's not that shape because someone's [TS]

  gripping it in the same way a lot of [TS]

  times consumer electronic products are [TS]

  made with organic shapes because we have [TS]

  the manufacturing technology to be able [TS]

  to break out of straight lines and right [TS]

  angles but it doesn't necessarily mean [TS]

  that they're manufactured with ergonomic [TS]

  sin mind for something it's going to [TS]

  behold they didn't you know say well [TS]

  what does this feel like the hold and [TS]

  what's the best way to let it be held [TS]

  securely in a way that the fingers can [TS]

  touch all the things that they're [TS]

  supposed to touch a lot of times it's an [TS]

  organic shape that just looked really [TS]

  cool to the designer so I think the [TS]

  genesis has a little bit of that it [TS]

  definitely has a lot of ergonomics in it [TS]

  with the layout of the buttons and how [TS]

  they're arcing with your thumb and I [TS]

  think the little horns they're also kind [TS]

  of an ergonomic thing but overall like [TS]

  the why is the whole thing curved why is [TS]

  the you know why are the top and bottom [TS]

  curved what does that really add to it [TS]

  or is that I don't know it's kind of [TS]

  like on the borderline I'm suspicious [TS]

  because of that generation of consoles a [TS]

  lot of the consoles themselves also had [TS]

  our Ganic shapes and no one's holding [TS]

  the consoles themselves in there playing [TS]

  so a lot of it is also fashion but [TS]

  Genesis was definitely significant [TS]

  controller and it was being much more [TS]

  daring than the SNES controller in [TS]

  general Sega was trying to be more [TS]

  daring than [TS]

  in ten deterring that periods intended [TS]

  was the incumbent and they were trying [TS]

  to usurp them yes and a self-described [TS]

  Sega fanboy Marco Arment rights to tell [TS]

  me that it was shameful that I should [TS]

  that I left out the SNA a bid the [TS]

  genesis controller as he loved the [TS]

  awesome eight way round d-pad then he [TS]

  had many other comments on game consoles [TS]

  most of them are out of the scope of [TS]

  this discussion but I'm glad that uh I [TS]

  know this is his outing Marco is a gamer [TS]

  I don't think you guys have ever really [TS]

  talked about video games on his show no [TS]

  we never really have never Brian he [TS]

  don't think he's much of a gamer he's [TS]

  you know he doesn't owned many of these [TS]

  consoles but really he's played them as [TS]

  a child so the Genesis has a special [TS]

  place in his heart and I apologize to [TS]

  people who have great affection for the [TS]

  Genesis Genesis that I should have [TS]

  included its controller in there what [TS]

  made you choose the specific controllers [TS]

  that you talked about why why were [TS]

  certain ones omitted um [TS]

  I mean that's a good question like it [TS]

  seemed when I did it I didn't spend a [TS]

  lot of time fighting about which ones [TS]

  should I include it was like oh I should [TS]

  know which ones I should include um and [TS]

  if I and again didn't know how genesis [TS]

  got locked out probably because I was [TS]

  just building up so many links and tabs [TS]

  that I was like I gotta trim this and [TS]

  then just skipped over it mostly what I [TS]

  was looking for was popular consoles so [TS]

  it's like I'm going to omit the obscure [TS]

  stuff right so things that sold in large [TS]

  numbers and if there was ever a conflict [TS]

  that would try to pick the most popular [TS]

  one from that generation and I wanted to [TS]

  show a progression now as I get to the [TS]

  modern consoles I tried to do all of [TS]

  them so I did 360 ps3 and we are well [TS]

  you know a little bit of the Wii [TS]

  GameCube type thing there but for the [TS]

  older consoles there were so many ones [TS]

  that most people are won't remember [TS]

  anymore and if if the points that I [TS]

  wanted to make were made by the more [TS]

  popular console controller I didn't need [TS]

  to cover the more obscure one so one of [TS]

  the other ones people talked about was a [TS]

  Dreamcast controller and there was [TS]

  another one that I skipped if I had [TS]

  talked about the green Dreamcast [TS]

  controller I probably would've been a [TS]

  sidebar because I didn't particularly [TS]

  like the Dreamcast controller I thought [TS]

  it was uncomfortable because it had I [TS]

  don't know what you would even call it I [TS]

  think I put some pictures in the show [TS]

  notes about this but who had kind of [TS]

  like the underside was like two long [TS]

  rails that were parallel to each other [TS]

  that you grip [TS]

  it seemed very awkward to me like you [TS]

  curled your fingers under the rim of [TS]

  them instead of wrapping your hand [TS]

  around something you know what I mean [TS]

  yeah you see that picture in the [TS]

  shownotes now I do I don't know if you [TS]

  ever used a Dreamcast controller and it [TS]

  also had the what was that thing called [TS]

  the V mu was called that the VMS in [TS]

  japan this is all for Wikipedia and the [TS]

  VM in Europe is the visual memory unit [TS]

  had this little slide II in PDA looking [TS]

  thing that was a memory card but it also [TS]

  had an LCD screen on that you could you [TS]

  know take out of one controller and put [TS]

  into another it wasn't it wasn't a color [TS]

  LCD screen I don't think it looked like [TS]

  a little Gameboy itself you can see that [TS]

  in the Wikipedia picture that we could [TS]

  talk forever about the Dreamcast [TS]

  controller and why the Dreamcast didn't [TS]

  catch on a lot of people did like the [TS]

  Dreamcast controller in my limited use [TS]

  of it I found it very uncomfortable to [TS]

  you is very uncomfortable to hold those [TS]

  rails like that like if you look at the [TS]

  shape of the controller from the top [TS]

  it's one of the few controllers that I [TS]

  can think of where the horns or the [TS]

  little like lower things angle in [TS]

  instead of out obviously your hands are [TS]

  coming from a wider stance than the [TS]

  controller so it seems like anything on [TS]

  a controller should angle out but these [TS]

  were the underside was like parallel I [TS]

  found it very awkward but I left that [TS]

  one out just because it is a sort of [TS]

  obscure less successful thing and the [TS]

  point I wanted to make was not wouldn't [TS]

  be helped by exploring another control [TS]

  that I thought had some problems but it [TS]

  did definitely have a lot of innovations [TS]

  there and that's true of all the ones I [TS]

  skipped I mean I put a link to the game [TS]

  consoles page of Wikipedia in the show [TS]

  notes people written about Sega Master [TS]

  System Atari Jaguar turbo graphx 16 and [TS]

  there's other obscure ones that no one [TS]

  wrote and about that I also could have [TS]

  thrown in there you know the M - does [TS]

  anyone the chat room know what the m2 is [TS]

  without googling it probably not 3do [TS]

  people at least heard of that CDI lots [TS]

  of awful unsuccessful game machines with [TS]

  controllers that were strange mutant [TS]

  derivation of the successful ones or [TS]

  sometimes very innovative with [TS]

  innovative and scare quotes because they [TS]

  were you know innovative to the point of [TS]

  being awful and it's it's too big a feel [TS]

  so I really just wanted to hit on like [TS]

  the major players and that's why I [TS]

  picked what I did but Ghent Genesis I'd [TS]

  the Genesis was important because it was [TS]

  a sort of a rebel incarnation of the [TS]

  SNES whereas like well Nintendo dominate [TS]

  with NES we're going to end with the [TS]

  Genesis we're going to come out to [TS]

  market before the SNES and we're going [TS]

  to be more daring with our controller [TS]

  designs that's why they should have been [TS]

  included to show that someone who didn't [TS]

  have a you know they had the Sega Master [TS]

  System but they were they were trying to [TS]

  usurp the leader and they were willing [TS]

  to be more innovative in the controller [TS]

  designed to do so and we've seen that [TS]

  you know modern history we like the Wii [TS]

  trying to usurp the dominant force to [TS]

  the PlayStation by being very innovative [TS]

  with the controller a Logan Hall writes [TS]

  in to say the Dreamcast controller [TS]

  should have been included because it was [TS]

  a big influence on the Xbox Microsoft [TS]

  had a significant partnership with Sega [TS]

  on the Dreamcast project at one point I [TS]

  think they were trying to make the [TS]

  Dreamcast on Windows I don't know if it [TS]

  ever actually did run any kind of [TS]

  Windows offer but there was a [TS]

  relationship between those two companies [TS]

  and a lot of people have see resemblance [TS]

  in the Xbox controller and the Dreamcast [TS]

  controller let me squint you can kind of [TS]

  see it I guess certainly they didn't do [TS]

  the vmu or anything like that and in the [TS]

  xbox controller though the other thing I [TS]

  got a lot of feedback up about besides [TS]

  oh missions were non-standard [TS]

  controllers controllers that were not [TS]

  included with systems and I was [TS]

  intentionally avoiding all those because [TS]

  like if you think the world the standard [TS]

  control which is big the world of [TS]

  aftermarket their body controllers or [TS]

  even first party controllers that were [TS]

  sold after the fact that's just enormous [TS]

  but there are a couple of significant [TS]

  innovations that are worth talking about [TS]

  I think one of them was the NES max got [TS]

  at do I not have the NES max open and [TS]

  the thing here I got to find that did [TS]

  you ever play with the NES marek never [TS]

  now when it came up I'd heard of it [TS]

  before but I had the wrong thing in my [TS]

  head I was thinking of the NES advantage [TS]

  which is the big arcade style joystick [TS]

  do you ever play with that I've seen [TS]

  that I'd not use that all right all [TS]

  right [TS]

  actually pull this up because somehow I [TS]

  did not get this thing where it should [TS]

  be so this was a rien Moonen [TS]

  sorry reading I got that [TS]

  your first name or last name the NES max [TS]

  looked like an NES controller but it had [TS]

  kind of horns pokin not not really horns [TS]

  that poke down but like little it was [TS]

  like an upside down u shape so in that [TS]

  respect it was like the genesis [TS]

  controller but less organic shape but [TS]

  with like more prominent horns poking [TS]

  down from it and it was an aftermarket [TS]

  controller because it had things like [TS]

  turbo buttons on it where you could [TS]

  press that button to make it as if you [TS]

  were firing the a or the B button faster [TS]

  than you could humanly fired unless you [TS]

  had really really put in a lot of time [TS]

  with summer games and developed a system [TS]

  of twitching your muscles such that the [TS]

  the your finger was moving imperceptibly [TS]

  but repeatedly activating the button and [TS]

  that was an important skill to have when [TS]

  the aliens come and someone needs to [TS]

  press a button hundreds or thousands of [TS]

  times a second somewhere some kid who [TS]

  had an NES who is not a dolt will be [TS]

  ready but anyway it had that feature it [TS]

  also had like this slighty disc thing in [TS]

  the middle of what where the d-pad would [TS]

  be and it has surrounding circular ring [TS]

  where you could press in eight different [TS]

  directions I never spent any time with [TS]

  this so I don't really know how it would [TS]

  feel to use that little slightly [TS]

  discipling instead of a d-pad but that's [TS]

  what did after market is for after [TS]

  market is for things that they weren't [TS]

  confident enough in to put in the [TS]

  standard controller but people might [TS]

  enjoy a few people might enjoy might be [TS]

  willing to spend a little bit of extra [TS]

  money to try it out and then found that [TS]

  dnes advantage that I had already [TS]

  mentioned was supposed to look like an [TS]

  arcade stick had a big joystick with a [TS]

  ball a top of it poking out just like an [TS]

  arcade machine and it was a big thing [TS]

  with the metal bottom and rubber feet [TS]

  and you put it on a tabletop instead of [TS]

  holding in your hands and had two huge [TS]

  buttons kind of arcade sized buttons and [TS]

  it also had turbos on them with dials [TS]

  that you could adjust the rate of the [TS]

  turbos there were also slow motion [TS]

  things where it would simulate slow [TS]

  motion by repeatedly sending the signal [TS]

  for the I forget if it's a start or [TS]

  select key but one of the keys that [TS]

  would pause the games they would like [TS]

  pause play pause play pause play to slow [TS]

  down the motion in games that you were [TS]

  having trouble beating because you lack [TS]

  the hand-eye coordination to [TS]

  successfully pass that particular level [TS]

  in Megaman and I'm sure many kids [TS]

  appreciated that although it was kind of [TS]

  a hack [TS]

  John foggers writes in to tell me that [TS]

  the I gave the PlayStation controllers a [TS]

  little bit short shrift when I talked [TS]

  about the DualShock because there was [TS]

  actually an analog stick for the [TS]

  PlayStation before the DualShock and [TS]

  that was the playstation analog joystick [TS]

  as it was called I looked just like a [TS]

  DualShock but the handles are longer and [TS]

  it was released for a bunch of Japanese [TS]

  titles that supposedly benefited from [TS]

  analog control but it was kind of like [TS]

  it was kind of weird where you're like [TS]

  well can I use the analog sticks with [TS]

  this particular game has this game been [TS]

  designed for the analog sticks other was [TS]

  apparently three different analog modes [TS]

  that you could put it into it was kind [TS]

  of I mean it was an official product but [TS]

  it wasn't it wasn't the complete [TS]

  revolution like the n64 was where like [TS]

  you know of course the game works with [TS]

  the analog stick on the n64 it comes [TS]

  with the system that you're expected to [TS]

  work that this was definitely an [TS]

  aftermarket thing and it was released [TS]

  the United States after was least in [TS]

  Japan as things always were done back [TS]

  then but it's very shortly after was [TS]

  loose the United States the DualShock [TS]

  was released in Japan and then [TS]

  eventually dual stock came to the US and [TS]

  just wiped out all memory of the analog [TS]

  joystick and it can be argued that the [TS]

  dual analog controller not the doing [TS]

  electronically I've got it now the dual [TS]

  analog controller was a a I swapped the [TS]

  names for the analog joystick is the [TS]

  name of the thing that I'm about to talk [TS]

  about so the PlayStation analog joystick [TS]

  was too huge like flight stick looking [TS]

  things poking out of a thing that you [TS]

  put on a table and it can be argued that [TS]

  the dual analog controller which was [TS]

  kind of like the DualShock without the [TS]

  shock and longer horns is simply a [TS]

  miniaturized derivation of the dual [TS]

  analog controller where they took those [TS]

  two giant analog sticks they had for [TS]

  flight sim games and robot games and put [TS]

  them in miniature form and tack them [TS]

  onto their controller there and [TS]

  apparently even the dual analog [TS]

  controller even had some sort of rumble [TS]

  feature so I'm not quite sure why the [TS]

  name DualShock only came in later if the [TS]

  dual analog controller actually had [TS]

  Rumble in it I know but credit where [TS]

  credit is due [TS]

  Sony did have analog sticks tacked on in [TS]

  strange locations before the DualShock [TS]

  and I asked I asked onfocus who's he was [TS]

  talking about this well and he said he [TS]

  hated the the dual analog controller and [TS]

  I'm looking at it I'm like well other [TS]

  than the longer horns what was the big [TS]

  deal it looks doesn't look that much [TS]

  different than the DualShock what was [TS]

  what was worse about it and why did it [TS]

  sort of become extinct and the DualShock [TS]

  took its place and he mentioned that the [TS]

  weirdly long horns bothered him he [TS]

  didn't like the three different analog [TS]

  modes there was no push down on the [TS]

  analog stick buttons I don't see that as [TS]

  a big downside I think those that push [TS]

  down the Alec stick buttons are weird [TS]

  these sticks themselves were concave on [TS]

  the top but were slippery instead of [TS]

  having that grippy rubber and it only [TS]

  came in gray so his reasons for [TS]

  disliking the that the analog it is kind [TS]

  of like a transitional like in the and [TS]

  earth all branch of the tree that just [TS]

  died out and then we had the dual the [TS]

  DualShock what who shape came to [TS]

  dominate and speaking of strange shapes [TS]

  that uh that they're sort of dead ends [TS]

  the evolutionary tree a lot of people [TS]

  brought up the the Wii classic [TS]

  controller have you ever seen that [TS]

  yes our Wii classic controller that was [TS]

  the thing that came out around the time [TS]

  that they announced the ability for you [TS]

  to download the classic I guess they [TS]

  were SNES and maybe some NES games and I [TS]

  guess it wasn't as easy or convenient to [TS]

  hold the Wii sideways and use it that [TS]

  way and there were some I guess [TS]

  functions that were missing from it is [TS]

  that is that the premise behind it it's [TS]

  confusing to me too because that they [TS]

  did design the Wii controller so like [TS]

  you said you could hold it sideways and [TS]

  if you hold it sideways and you squint [TS]

  you can say all that now there's a d-pad [TS]

  right and you've got two buttons they're [TS]

  in line with each other so it kind of [TS]

  looks like an NES control and you can [TS]

  play you know you can download Super [TS]

  Mario Brothers for the NES and the Wii [TS]

  Virtual Console and play it on your [TS]

  sideways Wiimote alright at but they [TS]

  decided they wanted to have a different [TS]

  controller for that I guess and what it [TS]

  looks like it's weird [TS]

  so if you look at it it looks kind of [TS]

  like a blobby [TS]

  Lauzon shape and its got a d-pad on the [TS]

  left and the primary control [TS]

  location and four buttons in a squash [TS]

  cross SNES style a B and X and y and [TS]

  then tuck down below it insert of the [TS]

  PlayStation analog stick location are [TS]

  two analog sticks so this weird hybrid [TS]

  enter shoulder buttons and all that [TS]

  stuff and there's actually a what is it [TS]

  called the Classic Controller Pro which [TS]

  is that same controller with two horns [TS]

  sticking out of it so it's very it's [TS]

  kind of odd to me and but the main [TS]

  reason I didn't bring it up is I kind of [TS]

  alright so it looks like an SNES control [TS]

  with two analog sticks right and I kind [TS]

  of give it a pass because it's called [TS]

  the classic controller and presumably [TS]

  you're playing classic games with it so [TS]

  if you're going to play an NES game or [TS]

  an SNES game it makes sense to have a [TS]

  controller shaped like an NES or SNES [TS]

  because those games are selling to [TS]

  people based on nostalgia and the d-pad [TS]

  is the primary control for NES and SNES [TS]

  games right so should it not be in the [TS]

  primary control spot a lot of people [TS]

  saying why didn't you complain about the [TS]

  classic controller looks just like a [TS]

  PlayStation controller in terms of [TS]

  layout albeit without the horn so the [TS]

  the pro version does have the little [TS]

  horns I get to pass because it's the [TS]

  classic controller you're supposed to [TS]

  use the d-pad to do you know so it [TS]

  should be set up like that [TS]

  now the problem comes in where the Wii [TS]

  you can play GameCube games on and they [TS]

  say oh you know plug in your classic [TS]

  control and you can play GameCube games [TS]

  with it well aim cube games the analog [TS]

  control was the primary control and all [TS]

  of a sudden you're telling me to play a [TS]

  GameCube game with the Ness NES [TS]

  controller basically with analog sticks [TS]

  tacked on that makes me angry but the [TS]

  Wii has GameCube controller ports on it [TS]

  so I never even considered buying [TS]

  classic controller because I don't [TS]

  really play a lot of the NES and SNES [TS]

  games when I play GameCube games I plug [TS]

  in one of my many GameCube controllers [TS]

  and that's a much better experience I [TS]

  would never play a GameCube game with [TS]

  the classic control that would just be [TS]

  very strange hmm awkward uh but on that [TS]

  topic a couple people wrote in to tell [TS]

  me god I thought I had this name here [TS]

  but apparently I don't to tell me that [TS]

  modern-day Weez [TS]

  oh it's has been in Norway game it was [TS]

  the first one to write this information [TS]

  and many others did modern-day we do not [TS]

  have GameCube [TS]

  support in them the 2012 we's if you [TS]

  were to go into a store now and buy a [TS]

  Wii console that had shipped [TS]

  star in 2012 they removed GameCubes [TS]

  apart there's no more GameCube [TS]

  controller ports on the side there's no [TS]

  more GameCube memory slots nothing the [TS]

  the I don't think the drive will even [TS]

  let you insert a one of those miniature [TS]

  GameCube discs and I have done the [TS]

  previous episode we just talked about [TS]

  how backward compatibility is kind of [TS]

  used as a boon to get people to upgrade [TS]

  to the next-generation ball and [TS]

  protecting their investment old games [TS]

  but that eventually they always drop it [TS]

  because it's a well we can make the [TS]

  Machine more cheaply if we don't have [TS]

  backward compatibility [TS]

  it's especially egregious in the case of [TS]

  the Wii though because as we discussed [TS]

  the Wii is really just the same CPU GPU [TS]

  combination as the Gamecube only higher [TS]

  clock speed and with a few additional [TS]

  features and then a bunch of other stuff [TS]

  tacked on to it like Wi-Fi and flash [TS]

  memory and stuff like that so it's not [TS]

  like in the case of the ps3 where when [TS]

  they had ps2 compatibility they had to [TS]

  basically stick an entire ps2 on a [TS]

  single chip inside the ps3 and that's [TS]

  how you get your ps2 compatibility it's [TS]

  not really padded Billy they just shove [TS]

  the ps2 on the motherboard along with [TS]

  the ps3 stuff and it's way cheaper for [TS]

  them to just ditch all that and say well [TS]

  here's your ps3 no more ps2 support we [TS]

  can make this board much cheaper if we [TS]

  just amid all those chips in the case of [TS]

  the Wii I maybe they could get rid of [TS]

  some I Oh controllers for the memory [TS]

  cards and for the four controller ports [TS]

  but I imagine that was all condensed [TS]

  down into a couple of small chips anyway [TS]

  but the main thing there getting rid of [TS]

  are all those ports themselves and I've [TS]

  always heard that adding ports adding [TS]

  connectors or slots or anything is [TS]

  surprisingly expensive on electronics [TS]

  components and the more of those you can [TS]

  get rid of the you know it really [TS]

  reduces manufacturing costs much more [TS]

  than you would think it would was like [TS]

  well what's the big deals just in holes [TS]

  in a case and some metal connectors just [TS]

  everything associated with it with every [TS]

  connector really does add cost and [TS]

  there's only so far you can get that [TS]

  cost down we're just I always thought [TS]

  was also one of the reasons that Apple [TS]

  wants to reduce the number of ports [TS]

  because you know it's that every one of [TS]

  those holes every one of those [TS]

  connectors on every one of those things [TS]

  that has to be durable enough of someone [TS]

  to stick something in and out of and not [TS]

  catch on fire and not wiggle loose and [TS]

  not corrode and be sturdy and have the [TS]

  you know the correct analog circuitry to [TS]

  avoid arcing and sparks and overloads [TS]

  and all its [TS]

  often in the kayo control is for that [TS]

  stop adds up so it really is a shame I [TS]

  think that Nintendo ditched the GameCube [TS]

  support but I can kind of see a reason [TS]

  for it if they really just want to drive [TS]

  the cost of the Wii console down down [TS]

  further and further presumably they've [TS]

  already got all the chips that make up [TS]

  what we consolidated into a very small [TS]

  number [TS]

  I usually pretty good about doing that [TS]

  from the beginning I should have put [TS]

  that in the show it's one of my favorite [TS]

  motherboard and of course we all have [TS]

  favorite motherboards right [TS]

  it means Steve Jobs one of my favorite [TS]

  motherboards ever was the Nintendo [TS]

  GameCube motherboard the Gamecube maybe [TS]

  my favorite console ever in terms of [TS]

  hardware design in terms of balancing [TS]

  cost of manufacturing with the power [TS]

  that you get from it you know this [TS]

  compromises and every time you're making [TS]

  some of this you want to make it cheap [TS]

  enough to buy you want to be powerful [TS]

  but you want it to be easy to program [TS]

  but you want it to be sturdy and small [TS]

  and not too noisy and just you know it's [TS]

  a series of compromises but underneath [TS]

  all this it's amazing to me that you'd [TS]

  be the motherboard for the Gamecube is [TS]

  just such a beautiful object if I could [TS]

  get one of those in a frame I would I [TS]

  mean google it now do you know what it [TS]

  looks like off an not offhand why don't [TS]

  want while you google it were 40 minutes [TS]

  in let me do our first sponsor ok [TS]

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  on the web you can accept online credit [TS]

  card and check payments and more and [TS]

  there's even a free companion iPhone and [TS]

  Android app so you can track time and [TS]

  expenses on the go basically you take a [TS]

  picture of your receipt and uploads [TS]

  right into the app is very cool and this [TS]

  all integrates seamlessly with your [TS]

  favorite small business apps like you [TS]

  know Google Apps Basecamp [TS]

  you name it you can try it free for 30 [TS]

  days figure out just how it works [TS]

  because it will help you run your [TS]

  business better 2012 you don't need a [TS]

  credit card you don't you know they [TS]

  don't tie you into a long-term [TS]

  obligation at all and here's what you do [TS]

  you go to get harvest calm / 5 by 5 get [TS]

  harvest calm / 5 by 5 sign up for the [TS]

  free 30-day trial and after that use the [TS]

  code 5x5 TV when you check out and get [TS]

  50% off [TS]

  your first month you get it you got to [TS]

  get in there before January 31st 2012 [TS]

  harvest I was going to say that I think [TS]

  I have on my hard drive somewhere my own [TS]

  personally saved high-resolution copy of [TS]

  the of a picture of the Gamecube [TS]

  motherboard because I loved it so much [TS]

  and I probably do so maybe I will [TS]

  actually upload that and put in the show [TS]

  notes but for now I found one on Google [TS]

  Image Search [TS]

  it just Google for a GameCube [TS]

  motherboard you'll find it so if you [TS]

  look at like the PlayStation 1 or 2 what [TS]

  did I do an article in it someone KJ [TS]

  healing a chatroom is found it's found [TS]

  an article that I wrote about it there [TS]

  you go I wrote a whole article about how [TS]

  much I love the motherboard from the fat [TS]

  pits blog 5 years ago that's why I [TS]

  didn't remember I'm an old man I'll put [TS]

  that in the show notes if you look at [TS]

  like the PlayStation 2 with the Xbox [TS]

  motherboard somebody's really good about [TS]

  this well they will they will launch [TS]

  their console where they can just you [TS]

  know just make it manufacturable and I [TS]

  usually lose money on it in the first [TS]

  iteration and then they constantly [TS]

  refine it how can we get this to be [TS]

  fewer chips of the process shrinks and [TS]

  everything let's combine these things [TS]

  that used to be two chip chips into one [TS]

  chip let's combine those four chips into [TS]

  one chip and just keep going till you [TS]

  can get your entire previous generation [TS]

  console on a single chip right and [TS]

  Nintendo has it has done a little bit of [TS]

  that in recent years and certainly done [TS]

  that with the remakes of the NES and the [TS]

  iterations of the Gamecube but with [TS]

  their consoles they've always been [TS]

  historically of the opinion that they [TS]

  should make profit from day one that [TS]

  they should not make a console that cost [TS]

  them five hundred dollars to build they [TS]

  sell for 200 bucks and just rely on the [TS]

  fact that Moore's law will make that [TS]

  thing cheaper to manufacture so the down [TS]

  the line they can be making money and [TS]

  they'll make it up in games in Tendo has [TS]

  always been kind of especially this [TS]

  smells to me like Hiroshi emojis [TS]

  Yamauchi sorry his sort of mo we're like [TS]

  why should we lose money we have such a [TS]

  fabulous product we're awesome we should [TS]

  pay us and we should make money on every [TS]

  console we build from day one and if [TS]

  it's too expensive won't find a way to [TS]

  make it less expensive because I'm not [TS]

  going to take a loss on the console why [TS]

  would I take a loss this is an awesome [TS]

  thing that we're building they should [TS]

  pay us and we should make money like a [TS]

  very as a Vince to go says a very Apple [TS]

  like thinking like you know we should [TS]

  make money shouldn't wait let's make [TS]

  money so in 10 [TS]

  supposedly again we don't know for a [TS]

  fact because Nintendo keeps us stuff [TS]

  pretty close to the best but supposedly [TS]

  has always made money on its consoles [TS]

  from day one which is flies in the face [TS]

  of what everyone else the industry is [TS]

  done and you can look at that's another [TS]

  reason I think they're impressive if you [TS]

  look at the GameCube motherboard this [TS]

  was the Gamecube motherboard on day one [TS]

  of the Gamecube obviously the the thing [TS]

  looks vaguely cube shaped so the [TS]

  motherboard is basically a square in the [TS]

  center of the square is one almost [TS]

  centered exactly the square is one big [TS]

  giant chip which is the GPU by ATI and a [TS]

  bunch of other stuff TechEd in there and [TS]

  then above it centered again slightly [TS]

  smaller square is the IBM PowerPC CPU [TS]

  and then below the big square thing in [TS]

  the middle are what I believe the two [TS]

  memory chips and then there's a bunch of [TS]

  diodes and resistors another surface [TS]

  mount things and through holes for all [TS]

  the i/o connectors but that's basically [TS]

  the whole motherboard did you pull up [TS]

  this picture yet yes is that not a thing [TS]

  of beauty [TS]

  what CPU GPU - chips of memory square [TS]

  motherboard and that's basically I mean [TS]

  obviously stuff on the underside and as [TS]

  all the connectors and all the analog [TS]

  components and the power supply and a [TS]

  lot of stuff but this thing is a thing [TS]

  of beauty and to imagine like this is [TS]

  not revision 17 of this where they came [TS]

  out with this on day one this is an [TS]

  amazing triumph of engineering I'm [TS]

  probably I'm just repeating everything [TS]

  that's in my in the article here anyway [TS]

  I encourage everyone to read it like [TS]

  this is bowed down before it in the yes [TS]

  and it is it is a nice-looking [TS]

  motherboard sure yeah I mean that's [TS]

  that's kind of it reminds me of the [TS]

  Steve Jobs stories like I don't like how [TS]

  the traces on this motherboard look [TS]

  let's redesign them the engineers were [TS]

  like that's crazy and they basically [TS]

  ignored him it's amazing when it all [TS]

  comes together when you can say we're [TS]

  going to make a machine that is more [TS]

  powerful than the dominant leader it's [TS]

  more powerful in the PlayStation 2 which [TS]

  people can argue about with the size the [TS]

  disk enough but I think it was easy to [TS]

  program for relative to our competition [TS]

  make a profit from day one sell it more [TS]

  cheaply and have such a beautiful board [TS]

  that like combining it you'd have to [TS]

  combine the CPU and GPU which we're all [TS]

  I know they eventually did but like it's [TS]

  pretty it's pretty minimal you know that [TS]

  I think later in the article I linked to [TS]

  the Xbox motherboard [TS]

  to contrast it to the Gamecube [TS]

  motherboards it's a wide difference god [TS]

  I cannot calm these tangents we never [TS]

  get through this yeah so we can read the [TS]

  article about the GameCube motherboard [TS]

  there another third-party controller now [TS]

  we're getting to the monitor many people [TS]

  sent me links to mad Katz's major league [TS]

  gaming pro circuit controller the Xbox [TS]

  360 Mad Catz by the way is conveniently [TS]

  ends in an S CA TZ nicely sidestepping [TS]

  the s apostrophe s issues the iPad right [TS]

  so like it Z you just do apostrophe s no [TS]

  fuss this incidentally is the same Cano [TS]

  this is not the same thing all right [TS]

  I'll get to that the next thing alright [TS]

  so if you look at this what it looks [TS]

  like is an Xbox 360 controller with the [TS]

  analog stick up on the left and then a [TS]

  secondary analog stick down below the [TS]

  buttons which are in a nice cross shape [TS]

  and then this little d-pad the tricky [TS]

  bit about it is that all those controls [TS]

  the two analog sticks and the d-pad are [TS]

  removable they're like they're in [TS]

  sockets so you can take the faceplate [TS]

  off and take the D to D pads the two [TS]

  analog sticks and d-pad out of their [TS]

  sockets and rearrange them any way you [TS]

  want so if you want both your analog [TS]

  sticks down and kind of the PlayStation [TS]

  location because that's comfortable to [TS]

  you you can put them there if you want [TS]

  them styled like an Xbox you can in [TS]

  theory I guess you could probably put [TS]

  the two analog sticks next to each other [TS]

  on the left side although I'm not sure [TS]

  how you would use them this is a serious [TS]

  piece of hardware obviously any time you [TS]

  have configurable controllers it reminds [TS]

  me that the Razer mice that are that are [TS]

  configured with different weights inside [TS]

  them and stuff like that and okay they [TS]

  even have different analog sticks if you [TS]

  prefer convex analog stick to a concave [TS]

  one you can just take them you know swap [TS]

  them out for each other there are weight [TS]

  clips that you clip on to it to give it [TS]

  the right balance and weight that you [TS]

  want this is some serious stuff and I [TS]

  this is what third party controller [TS]

  should be there shouldn't be cheap [TS]

  pieces of crap that try to imitate [TS]

  imitate the first party controllers and [TS]

  fail and feel cheap they should be like [TS]

  you know high-end type of things are [TS]

  more advanced intelligent something [TS]

  that's better than the first party [TS]

  controller was so many third party [TS]

  control to historically have not been [TS]

  better than the first party controller [TS]

  isn't it and the only point would be [TS]

  like well you can save ten bucks now so [TS]

  I applaud Mad Catz for this this product [TS]

  and the other one I want to talk about [TS]

  is the [TS]

  and control adventure this is the one [TS]

  that had the big blowup with Penny [TS]

  Arcade recently it wasn't the company [TS]

  that makes the controller it was the [TS]

  person that I had doing near PR and a [TS]

  bad in a bad way yeah and so you can [TS]

  link to the Penny Arcade story and this [TS]

  is kind of a sideshow but he was a bad [TS]

  PR person but the controller itself is [TS]

  very interesting how to describe it it's [TS]

  not really a controller so much as a [TS]

  thing that attached your controller kind [TS]

  of like the alien attaches to faces that [TS]

  the face huggers right this thing is the [TS]

  controller is interesting uh and I saw [TS]

  many pictures of this and I said I was [TS]

  like how how the hell is this thing even [TS]

  gonna work are you looking at a picture [TS]

  of it now yes it looks like us like what [TS]

  are those tubes they have liquid in them [TS]

  is it I don't how does it what is the [TS]

  advantage of this or why would you ever [TS]

  want to do this it looks like it control [TS]

  that it's strapping onto your thing and [TS]

  it's it's got these little devices that [TS]

  are poised over the buttons on your xbox [TS]

  you have this an engine that's already [TS]

  here oh I got all this yeah don't you [TS]

  know dad uh yeah it's a very weird uh [TS]

  it's a very weird looking thing it [TS]

  almost looks like you've use your knees [TS]

  to bump it boom yeah I'm like you've [TS]

  ever seen something in a car where [TS]

  perhaps somebody who doesn't have full [TS]

  use of their limbs or something they [TS]

  have an attachment that allows them to [TS]

  drive without maybe foot controls or [TS]

  something it like like that it almost [TS]

  looks like something like that like if [TS]

  you had an extra appendage leave that to [TS]

  your imagination but an extra bandage [TS]

  that you wanted to use to control some [TS]

  of the games there's little levers and [TS]

  other things coming out of it extra [TS]

  buttons extra things it it really looks [TS]

  like something from buckaroo banzai and [TS]

  some of the stories that I click to [TS]

  through reading the Penny Arcade you [TS]

  know PR Fiasco with that PR guy yeah [TS]

  where are people saying that this [TS]

  controller was of interest to disabled [TS]

  gamers who have you know a lady ghost of [TS]

  some more their limbs and so I was I was [TS]

  trying to get a handle alright so is [TS]

  this something let's people who have [TS]

  have limited use of their hands or some [TS]

  other physical problem it helps them to [TS]

  be able to play games or is this [TS]

  something like like the Mad Catz [TS]

  controller where it's like for super [TS]

  duper pros it seems like it's both and I [TS]

  that I had it explained to me by [TS]

  googling around and finding videos of [TS]

  people demonstrating this so I put one [TS]

  of the YouTube video in the show notes [TS]

  link and you can see the person you know [TS]

  demonstrating how to play with it and [TS]

  why you might want to do it and the [TS]

  upshot for me I think is that it allows [TS]

  obviously if you can't do the movements [TS]

  that are required to hold a regular Xbox [TS]

  controller this thing uses different [TS]

  movements and if that you find those [TS]

  movements easier you know for your range [TS]

  of physical abilities that's that's good [TS]

  so it's good for disabled people in that [TS]

  way but for pro people the the sale [TS]

  seems to be have both of your thumbs on [TS]

  the analog sticks when you're playing a [TS]

  first-person shooter because you know [TS]

  one is your movement and one is where [TS]

  you look right and don't have to move [TS]

  them and most first-person should just [TS]

  try to do that they try to say okay put [TS]

  your left thumb here but your right [TS]

  thumb there move look at you know [TS]

  without having to move those and then [TS]

  use your trigger fingers to fire your [TS]

  gun and hit shoulder buttons and stuff [TS]

  like that ah the trouble is those [TS]

  daren't face buttons because you've [TS]

  already got both your thumbs occupied [TS]

  and underneath you've got your fingers [TS]

  using the triggers and shoulders but the [TS]

  game's inevitably use those face buttons [TS]

  so to switch weapons to to duck to go [TS]

  into different stances to do you know to [TS]

  lean toward you all the things that you [TS]

  might do and so what do you hit those [TS]

  with your tongue alright so this this [TS]

  setup allows you to keep both your [TS]

  thumbs on the the analog sticks use your [TS]

  fingers below for the triggers but also [TS]

  use your fingers below you know so using [TS]

  your fingers to pull on the triggers and [TS]

  shoulder buttons but to push your [TS]

  fingers outwards to hit a series of [TS]

  levers which will transfer transform [TS]

  that motion into downward motion on the [TS]

  buttons is actually even elastic strings [TS]

  on the bottom that you twitch those [TS]

  elastic strings and that pulls the [TS]

  triggers for you so you get more of a [TS]

  hair-trigger effect and the little [TS]

  things that are poised over the buttons [TS]

  on the face of the controller have [TS]

  adjustable little dials on them to get [TS]

  them you know you spin them down so this [TS]

  just almost to the contact point of the [TS]

  X button so you just barely need to [TS]

  flick that thing to hit the X button to [TS]

  you know switch weapons or change [TS]

  stances or something this is a really [TS]

  interesting third-party product to me so [TS]

  I can see what everyone was excited [TS]

  about it and the Penny Arcade thing was [TS]

  kind of a sideshow or it's like no the [TS]

  product itself that we're not [TS]

  controlling about it's this one PR guy [TS]

  who was a jerk um [TS]

  although apparently there have been [TS]

  delays in getting this product to people [TS]

  I think the popularity of it has perhaps [TS]

  exceeded their expectations or or maybe [TS]

  there's just some sort of manufacturing [TS]

  problem but some people have had it in [TS]

  their hand so I suggest everyone who is [TS]

  interested in this look at that video if [TS]

  you haven't seen it already I put it in [TS]

  the show notes of someone demonstrating [TS]

  how this thing works and it is really [TS]

  interesting and innovative and amazing [TS]

  of course what it says to me is it [TS]

  reinforces to my my personal notion that [TS]

  first-person shooters are much better [TS]

  play with a mouse a keyboard that they [TS]

  did controller is not the right tool for [TS]

  that job and attaching this facehugger [TS]

  to the controller perhaps makes it [TS]

  better suited and gives you an edge when [TS]

  playing these type of games but I would [TS]

  still much rather play a first-person [TS]

  shooter with the mouse and a keyboard [TS]

  and it can be argued the keyboard is a [TS]

  crappy tool for this too but at the very [TS]

  least you know the mouse gives you [TS]

  freedom to look round on the keyboard [TS]

  you have five fingers and many different [TS]

  keys and you can arrange things in many [TS]

  different ways and customize them and [TS]

  get custom keypads so I think with a [TS]

  stock mouse and keyboard is a better [TS]

  tool for a Brooklyn shooter than a stock [TS]

  controller but maybe this thing maybe [TS]

  this thing gives a it narrows that gap [TS]

  slightly alright is this going to be the [TS]

  last one and we'll see so on the [TS]

  playstation controller which I [TS]

  complained about in the last show there [TS]

  were as expected some defenders of the [TS]

  playstation controller some of them gave [TS]

  me replies on Twitter and emails I [TS]

  couldn't tell if they were trying to [TS]

  make a joke by exactly saying things [TS]

  that I said that PlayStation fans would [TS]

  say sometimes word-for-word or if they [TS]

  were just serious and I thought they [TS]

  were serious but I think some of the [TS]

  more serious but you know the the reason [TS]

  I said I know you're going to say X Y [TS]

  and Z's because I thought that's what [TS]

  they were going to say and they did so I [TS]

  don't know its self-fulfilling prophecy [TS]

  but one of them [TS]

  Dave Cheney from our chat room D singing [TS]

  the chatroom gave a very long very nice [TS]

  very well composed reply did you see his [TS]

  email and I did get so much feedback [TS]

  from all the different shows I I know I [TS]

  do and I have it I have it here there's [TS]

  I have about a hundred 200 emails [TS]

  in the hypercritical folder and his his [TS]

  had inline pictures is that correct then [TS]

  let me pull this one out I'm trying to [TS]

  there it is [TS]

  this one was sent on the no I'm looking [TS]

  at an older one from him hold on me but [TS]

  pull up the newer one actually when what [TS]

  does this one date it oh I gotta look it [TS]

  up I had it open in my window by the [TS]

  night bunch from this guy yeah this one [TS]

  is dated two days ago the 11th no I [TS]

  don't have this one that one on this [TS]

  machine all right well can you really [TS]

  eroded he formatted he included photos [TS]

  to demonstrate his points interspersed [TS]

  with the writing big high-resolution [TS]

  photos and I think it's he deserves [TS]

  airtime for this all he sent it straight [TS]

  to me saying he didn't send it through [TS]

  five of us why'd you cancel I think this [TS]

  I have one well I actually have one from [TS]

  him talking about Steve Jobs name the [TS]

  apostrophe s that but I do not have to [TS]

  this one yes he's a longtime listener [TS]

  I'll send this one so it so he said yes [TS]

  it's always that they always say that [TS]

  when they want to be read on their well [TS]

  I'm not going to read it so much longer [TS]

  to address his points because it was a [TS]

  very long email because I think I think [TS]

  this this level of effort in feedback [TS]

  deserves airtime so he's going to get [TS]

  his air time and all right so his first [TS]

  comment is complaining about how I said [TS]

  that the position of the analog controls [TS]

  was not the natural place that my thumbs [TS]

  would fall when holding the controller [TS]

  and I there's two aspects of this one [TS]

  was talking about the assumption that [TS]

  where the d-pad is on a Playstation [TS]

  krohler is the primary control position [TS]

  I always keep using that term it's like [TS]

  you know that's that's the optimal place [TS]

  to put the controls right and he says [TS]

  that that's not necessarily safe [TS]

  assumption why do you think where the [TS]

  d-pad is and the PlayStation controller [TS]

  is the is the best location just because [TS]

  that's where they put things and as you [TS]

  pointed on their own show lob the [TS]

  decisions they made for the PlayStation [TS]

  control may have seen his control we're [TS]

  not based on ergonomics so why is it [TS]

  that you think that that is the primary [TS]

  that primary control location is the [TS]

  best place for the controller maybe the [TS]

  other place [TS]

  is better um and he demonstrates that by [TS]

  providing pictures of his own hands [TS]

  holding a PlayStation controller I can't [TS]

  tell if it's a dual Dual Shock 2 or [TS]

  three but they look the same which was [TS]

  kind of my point holding the PlayStation [TS]

  controlled to show that really is a [TS]

  natural position so he shows himself [TS]

  grabbing the controller putting his [TS]

  fingers underneath it you know and then [TS]

  laying his hands on top of it and says [TS]

  look see it's it's perfectly natural [TS]

  with my thumbs fall exactly on the thumb [TS]

  sticks my comment on this is that [TS]

  bristle everyone's hands are different [TS]

  so and different sizes and things are [TS]

  comfortable to different people all [TS]

  controller design is a compromise of [TS]

  some kind where you're trying to make it [TS]

  control if it's as many people's hands [TS]

  as possible I however do not buy the [TS]

  notion that these that the position that [TS]

  the d-pad is in is not the primary [TS]

  control location and I think his own [TS]

  picture demonstrates that if you look at [TS]

  his final picture in a series did you [TS]

  get this email yet by the way I just [TS]

  have a brand new email from you [TS]

  forwarded from him [TS]

  yeah can you the picture show for you [TS]

  there is a picture and in his hands and [TS]

  perhaps it's the way the dis angles uh [TS]

  he looks he looks a little bit like [TS]

  Andre the Giant with the way that his [TS]

  ears are sized it's the controller looks [TS]

  he's sort of again people are not able [TS]

  to send maybe never see this so here's [TS]

  the jeff'd imagine imagine Andre the [TS]

  Giant holding a matchbox you know if for [TS]

  the for those of you have never held a [TS]

  matchbox these are things that very old [TS]

  people used to use uh it's he's sort of [TS]

  balancing the matchbox on the middle [TS]

  fingers of his of his hand it's that [TS]

  tiny I don't even know how somebody this [TS]

  large would use regular household [TS]

  objects like you could imagine you know [TS]

  the largest sized mug that the normal [TS]

  person would say is far too big to use [TS]

  for him that's a teacup [TS]

  he's clearly enormous alright so look at [TS]

  the very last pictures three pictures in [TS]

  there see the last picture where his [TS]

  hands are kind of in the final position [TS]

  how could he you that's reducing this [TS]

  isn't real nobody sigil illusion cos [TS]

  here [TS]

  here [TS]

  they're closer to the camera it has got [TS]

  huge it's freakish the point I want to [TS]

  make about this this final position is [TS]

  showing showing how the hands are in a [TS]

  natural position there is that in this [TS]

  final shot there's no way he can use the [TS]

  shoulder buttons with this index fingers [TS]

  and that's kind of that's true what I'm [TS]

  what I'm getting at is that if you grip [TS]

  the thing in a natural way actually [TS]

  gripping a little horn right how do you [TS]

  get your fingers around gripping in a [TS]

  handshake type grip your thumbs fall on [TS]

  where the d-pad is and the reason they [TS]

  have to fall there is because well then [TS]

  if they don't have the hell you're gonna [TS]

  reach l1 and l2 and r1 and r2 right [TS]

  right and technically he could probably [TS]

  reach it with his fingertips likes those [TS]

  fingers one of those double-jointed [TS]

  people who can can bend just the very [TS]

  top part of your finger can you do that [TS]

  you strike me as a double-jointed person [TS]

  no you can't do that where you bend the [TS]

  first knuckle backwards no you put your [TS]

  fingers straight up yeah and so if you [TS]

  look at your fingers as little does this [TS]

  hinges in them so the the very first [TS]

  place where your finger can bend yeah [TS]

  starting from your finger right just [TS]

  bend your finger there don't bend it [TS]

  anywhere else no I can't do that [TS]

  no double-jointed people can do that can [TS]

  you die no I cannot I thought maybe the [TS]

  guitar thing with a lot of guitar [TS]

  players have uh very dexterous fingers I [TS]

  can I know I can do I can do that kind [TS]

  of thing with my fingers but I can't I [TS]

  can't just Bend just that yeah by itself [TS]

  so anyway that that's my point that if [TS]

  you grip the thing in that manner where [TS]

  you think your hands are comfortable on [TS]

  the thing you can't reach the shoulder [TS]

  buttons and detuning the chat room says [TS]

  I'm gripping it too hard it's not about [TS]

  hard gripping it's about being able to [TS]

  operate the shoulder bones lots of games [TS]

  use the shoulder buttons at the same [TS]

  time as used analog stick and if but if [TS]

  you sort of what I consider a natural [TS]

  grip is like a handshake grip and lots [TS]

  of ergonomic things are made to like be [TS]

  you know a hand shit you know how your [TS]

  hands work naturally just like Greta and [TS]

  I'll grabbing a tree branch or Gladys [TS]

  guy take the picture if he's holding a [TS]

  head mount camera you don't know what I [TS]

  was know it's like a little headband you [TS]

  just the camera dancer so large he could [TS]

  do he could enter a contest or something [TS]

  they're huge it's an optical illusion [TS]

  alright so so I do think that the [TS]

  location of the d-pad is the primary [TS]

  control location and I think you see [TS]

  most people hold the PlayStation [TS]

  controller especially if they have to [TS]

  use the shoulders they want their [TS]

  to curl around the shoulder buttons and [TS]

  then they have to deflect their thumbs [TS]

  from the natural position if you talk to [TS]

  any hand doctor about you know how you [TS]

  injure your tendons and everything is [TS]

  that it this is a straight way that your [TS]

  tendons go through your Anatomy and as [TS]

  you deflect your your limbs or your [TS]

  digits or any other thing now you're [TS]

  making that tendon which slides back and [TS]

  forth slide through a bend and that's [TS]

  the more you deflect your joints and [TS]

  then make this tendon slide back and [TS]

  forth the more irritated those things [TS]

  get so I Nix that point the octagon [TS]

  shaped hole his point about the octagon [TS]

  surround I mean there's this room to [TS]

  quibble on this one because it it is a [TS]

  different experience having an octagon [TS]

  thing there I talked about how it [TS]

  provides tactile feedback that isn't [TS]

  provided on 3d analog sticks that used [TS]

  to be provided on the d-pad so in the [TS]

  deep end you get always tell where [TS]

  up-down left-right where regardless of [TS]

  where your hands bar where regardless of [TS]

  where you're holding the controller now [TS]

  you can't as much because you might lose [TS]

  track of where things are because the [TS]

  analog sticks just waving down there in [TS]

  the wind but the octagonal surround will [TS]

  let you feel where that is and this [TS]

  point is that the visual feedback on the [TS]

  screen is what really matters [TS]

  and the directional indicators aren't [TS]

  accurate or fast enough to provide the [TS]

  feedback the visual input pen my point [TS]

  in that is that the visual feedback on [TS]

  the screen is all well and good but you [TS]

  still have to know what input do I [TS]

  provide to to change the things on the [TS]

  screen so lots of like for example 3d [TS]

  platformer games the [TS]

  control scheme is push the stick in the [TS]

  direction you want the guy to go on the [TS]

  screen so if you're depending on where [TS]

  the camera is the direction you push on [TS]

  the stick makes the guy run a different [TS]

  way so what you want to know is all [TS]

  right when I look at the screen [TS]

  straight ahead on the screen like above [TS]

  me on the screen if you're looking you [TS]

  know a camera view from boga is where I [TS]

  want to go so I want to push straight [TS]

  ahead on my stick and the octagonal [TS]

  surround lets you know where straight [TS]

  ahead is on your stick it's not so much [TS]

  that you're not relying on the visual [TS]

  feedback the screen you are but you then [TS]

  want to know okay given what I've seen [TS]

  on the screen which direction do I push [TS]

  my stick to make him go you know but you [TS]

  need to basically mentally align the [TS]

  axis of the stick like you have to line [TS]

  north on North on your controller with [TS]

  north on your TV screen and you can do [TS]

  that without look [TS]

  your controller and without having your [TS]

  controller constantly directly in front [TS]

  of you like if you've got it you know [TS]

  way up in the air like I said with your [TS]

  tongue sticking out of the corner of [TS]

  your mouth or you know under you know [TS]

  way down lower who knows people do all [TS]

  sorts of contortions with their [TS]

  controllers in their playing I just [TS]

  always make fun of my wife playing Mario [TS]

  Kart in the GameCube because she would [TS]

  try to steer with the controller if she [TS]

  was going too far one direction she [TS]

  would lean and turn the controller like [TS]

  the steering wheel and turned her I [TS]

  would say it doesn't it doesn't know [TS]

  that you're turning it you have to move [TS]

  the stick if you want to you know and of [TS]

  course that would come back to bite me [TS]

  later with the Wii when turning the [TS]

  controller actually is how you control [TS]

  the game but for GameCube controllers [TS]

  and other things you don't actually have [TS]

  to turn the controller to make a turn [TS]

  but people do that naturally and so what [TS]

  I'm saying is that when you're doing [TS]

  that just you know naturally because [TS]

  you're getting into the game you still [TS]

  need to know where exactly straight up [TS]

  is on the controller and to some degree [TS]

  the shape the unchanging shape of the [TS]

  controller itself gives you that type of [TS]

  feedback because you can feel where the [TS]

  edges are whatever the octagonal [TS]

  surround is an additional aid to that [TS]

  and the other thing is that all right so [TS]

  the disadvantage that people say for the [TS]

  octagonal surround is that it's not G [TS]

  like you can feel straight ahead you can [TS]

  feel the 45s and you know and you feel [TS]

  the 90s but in between there you don't [TS]

  have the same fine control as you want [TS]

  and I'll get to that and the next point [TS]

  but before I get to that I want talk [TS]

  about the the gold standard game the [TS]

  testing game for how good is your analog [TS]

  stick and that game is Super Monkey Ball [TS]

  on the Gamecube the only control in that [TS]

  game is the analog stick have you ever [TS]

  played this game mmm I'm sure I have I [TS]

  done bring had not show you how because [TS]

  it was kind of obscure was a GameCube [TS]

  game you can get it and play it on your [TS]

  way of your Wii has game compatibility [TS]

  and I think they made Wii versions I [TS]

  think I actually have the Weaver but the [TS]

  first Super Monkey Ball not super monkey [TS]

  ball - and not the Wii version I've [TS]

  played this thing it was it you're a [TS]

  monkey and a ball surprise uh and the [TS]

  only control is the analog stick buttons [TS]

  do nothing shoulder buttons do nothing [TS]

  see stick does nothing d-pad does [TS]

  nothing just you know other than pausing [TS]

  the game with the select button so like [TS]

  this is the stick is the control right [TS]

  Super Monkey Ball won the very first [TS]

  game uh and what you ostensibly what [TS]

  you're doing with that stick is tilting [TS]

  the board that you're on but that's like [TS]

  you know are you tilting the ball [TS]

  order you making the ball go forward and [TS]

  moving the camera at the same time it's [TS]

  like a relativity type problem but a [TS]

  Super Monkey Ball and and in other games [TS]

  like that one of the camera controls [TS]

  that you might have is bring the camera [TS]

  directly behind me and in Super Monkey [TS]

  Ball in particular that's important [TS]

  because that the levels get harder and [TS]

  harder until you're trying to navigate [TS]

  this ball on very skinny [TS]

  you know paths floating in space right [TS]

  so if you want to successfully navigate [TS]

  a very skinny path what you want to do [TS]

  is get the camera swinging directly [TS]

  behind you so that the path is exactly [TS]

  straight ahead into the screen you know [TS]

  3d speaking and then push the control [TS]

  stick exactly ahead and how do you know [TS]

  if you're pushing the control stick [TS]

  exactly ahead without the octagonal [TS]

  surround you might be close but not [TS]

  quite close and like in most games that [TS]

  doesn't matter but in games especially [TS]

  platformers and very particularly Super [TS]

  Monkey Ball it makes a big big [TS]

  difference whether you're going exactly [TS]

  straight ahead now I think the analog [TS]

  stick in the game controller is awesome [TS]

  for lots of reasons whether I toggle [TS]

  surround puts it over the top for games [TS]

  like Super Monkey Ball because I can't [TS]

  imagine playing that game on a [TS]

  Playstation control I think I might've [TS]

  actually come out for the PlayStation or [TS]

  any other kind of control that is around [TS]

  because that game is so precise that [TS]

  game is entirely about the precise [TS]

  control of this one little ball on this [TS]

  maze of levels where you're just trying [TS]

  to keep this ball from falling off the [TS]

  edge of these increasingly skinny paths [TS]

  and in the earlier levels many of those [TS]

  paths are in straight lines or they're [TS]

  straight lines up hills or anyone who's [TS]

  played Super Monkey Ball hope can [TS]

  hopefully appreciate the the precision [TS]

  required by this game and the purity of [TS]

  the game the end the amount of hand [TS]

  sweat produced by the game the end the [TS]

  side here so Super Monkey Ball has a [TS]

  scoring system where you get play points [TS]

  it's one of those Sega terms that [TS]

  doesn't really make any sense or maybe [TS]

  it's probably translated but you get you [TS]

  get points for playing and achieving [TS]

  certain things and supposedly the [TS]

  maximum number of play points you can [TS]

  get in Super Monkey Ball is 9999 if you [TS]

  get every banana and do every level and [TS]

  never die and the the greatest video [TS]

  game thumb dexterity triumphs I've ever [TS]

  seen on video are thee I think as many [TS]

  of these maybe is just one guy [TS]

  is a u-tube playthrough of someone [TS]

  playing Super Monkey Ball and getting [TS]

  9999 play points that means he plays [TS]

  through every single level and never [TS]

  dies and gets every single thing right [TS]

  it's kind of like the pac-man perfect [TS]

  game or like all I got every fruit I got [TS]

  every dot and never died by the ghosts I [TS]

  made it up to the kill screen oh there's [TS]

  no kill screen at the end of Super [TS]

  Monkey Ball you just finish the game [TS]

  this probably is kind of like a golf [TS]

  where you're not really interested in [TS]

  golf if you haven't ever played it [TS]

  that's been my experience most people [TS]

  who have never played golf ah find it [TS]

  boring to watch and aren't interested in [TS]

  tennis is a similar way well if you've [TS]

  never played Super Monkey Ball watching [TS]

  this video will be boring and not make [TS]

  any sense to you but if you have ever [TS]

  played serious monkey ba serious Monkey [TS]

  Ball super monkey ball in anger where [TS]

  you're not just like whoa let me talk [TS]

  around with this game for two seconds [TS]

  like you're an actual gamer and you said [TS]

  I'm gonna play this game and I'm going [TS]

  to excel and achieve in this game right [TS]

  if you've ever done that you know how [TS]

  hard this game is and to watch what I [TS]

  assume is an actual human being playing [TS]

  and not like a bot or an emulator or [TS]

  something an actual human being playing [TS]

  Super Monkey Ball and achieving nine I'm [TS]

  gonna be very sad if someone writes in [TS]

  tells me you know that was a bot it was [TS]

  an emulator and and you've been fooled [TS]

  but this video existed when the Gamecube [TS]

  was new so it seems if someone actually [TS]

  built a device to automatically play [TS]

  GameCube by you know actuating the [TS]

  controller and looking at the TV screen [TS]

  I guess I'll still give them kudos I'll [TS]

  be very sad as a simulation but it is an [TS]

  amazing it's something you didn't think [TS]

  was possible that's that's the big thing [TS]

  about video game movies on the web [TS]

  whenever you're stuck in a video game or [TS]

  whenever I'm stuck in a video game I [TS]

  like to look at someone you know like I [TS]

  know what to do I just can't do it like [TS]

  in a Mario level or I know I have to [TS]

  jump from here to here to there and hit [TS]

  that in blah blah and it's frustrating [TS]

  me and I can't get past it I like to [TS]

  watch a video of somebody else doing it [TS]

  not because it's gonna tell me something [TS]

  new it's like yeah I know you got to [TS]

  jump on that and then before the thing [TS]

  comes you gotta go over there and then [TS]

  don't let that thing kill you and don't [TS]

  touch that and move over there I just [TS]

  like seeing someone else do it to [TS]

  convince myself that it can be done and [TS]

  you watch it over and over again it's [TS]

  kind of like positive visualization for [TS]

  athletes like you see it being done like [TS]

  it can be done look look it's just a [TS]

  simple series of movements look at this [TS]

  person doing it but if you look at the [TS]

  Super Monkey Ball video it has an [TS]

  opposite effect you're like that's not [TS]

  poss [TS]

  no human can do that it's yeah I was [TS]

  like half an hour long 40 minutes long [TS]

  split up into parts it is unbelievable [TS]

  they should show it it's their chart on [TS]

  movie screens for people who played [TS]

  Super Monkey Ball and say come see the [TS]

  pinnacle of human achievement is like [TS]

  the the quad satiric of uh oh wait a [TS]

  minute [TS]

  doing reverence yeah I didn't I've seen [TS]

  doom oh I read the book too uh it is [TS]

  unbelievable I highly endorse this this [TS]

  movie if anyone has ever seen if [TS]

  anyone's ever played Super Monkey Ball [TS]

  people who haven't I'm sorry for wasting [TS]

  your time all right so hold on let's do [TS]

  it let's do our second sponsor all right [TS]

  now can we do it yes you can all right [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  Rackspace these guys you've gotta think [TS]

  of them think of them three three boxes [TS]

  draw three boxes in your mind in the [TS]

  first one put managed hosting this is [TS]

  this is the best first-class managed [TS]

  hosting in the business this is servers [TS]

  that are racked on demand configured the [TS]

  way you want them with human beings [TS]

  waiting to help you restart them [TS]

  reinstall operating systems configure [TS]

  them the way you want what every one [TS]

  second box cloud hosting you'll know [TS]

  what that is [TS]

  these guys are the masters of cloud [TS]

  hosting the third box hybrid hosting [TS]

  combination they're the only the only [TS]

  company out there that I'm aware of that [TS]

  that offers both and that interconnects [TS]

  them and that understands both so what [TS]

  that might mean is for some reason maybe [TS]

  you've got some super intensive [TS]

  application that you really don't don't [TS]

  need the scaling stuff for it but later [TS]

  you do or a different aspect of your [TS]

  business does they can tile this [TS]

  together the only ones doing that as far [TS]

  as I know they're there for you when [TS]

  your business grows too that's the thing [TS]

  you can't out scale Rackspace when it [TS]

  comes to growing your business so go to [TS]

  Rackspace comm / 5x5 [TS]

  they have special deals there for you [TS]

  guys on cloud servers CDN scaling [TS]

  services all that stuff and I just while [TS]

  we were doing the show I don't make it a [TS]

  habit to check my email but you told me [TS]

  to go and look for this DCE email with [TS]

  the hands so right in there came in 20 [TS]

  minutes ago my buddy Michael over at [TS]

  Rackspace here's what he says [TS]

  hey Dan were hiring a senior UX person [TS]

  at Rackspace this could be in San [TS]

  Antonio could be in Austin could be in [TS]

  San Francisco he says this is an awesome [TS]

  job literally turning Rackspace come [TS]

  into world-class websites he says would [TS]

  you mind sharing this with your peeps [TS]

  he actually said teeps he says I figure [TS]

  5x5 listeners might be really interested [TS]

  so what I'm going to do there is there [TS]

  is a link here and I'm going to to drop [TS]

  this into the into the show notes this [TS]

  looks like a really cool awesome job so [TS]

  go check it out thanks to Rackspace calm [TS]

  such five-by-five for making this show [TS]

  possible [TS]

  I just realized when you said the name [TS]

  of the person who sent the email that I [TS]

  have been reading the last letter as an [TS]

  N not an H and saying sheeny it's not [TS]

  sheeny it's according to the man himself [TS]

  it's GE what's up she ok AG - and three [TS]

  years in a row is his explanation of how [TS]

  to pronounce so I apologize for mangling [TS]

  your name and calling you sheeny [TS]

  Ellucian he would be easier to pronounce [TS]

  so consider changing like Martin Cheney [TS]

  yeah Martin Cheney it's like there it's [TS]

  something is very Martin Sheen II when [TS]

  it's you know it's exactly what I was [TS]

  thinking yeah so back to that octagonal [TS]

  surround I said I was gonna get back to [TS]

  one of the other complaints about it [TS]

  besides being nachi he says that the [TS]

  Octagon hole won't help until the sticks [TS]

  has reached full deflection but that [TS]

  time it's probably too late and the [TS]

  target has probably been overshot so the [TS]

  idea is that you're you only touch that [TS]

  octagonal surround when you're going [TS]

  when you hit the the limits of your your [TS]

  reach so why would you you know if [TS]

  you're going to instantly go to full [TS]

  deflection when I use a digital pad [TS]

  instead of analog stick huh this I think [TS]

  ties into how you know the octagonal [TS]

  surround prevents fine-tuned movement my [TS]

  experience when you need to do fine [TS]

  movement of you know slight changes [TS]

  you're not at full deflection because if [TS]

  you read full deflection you're just [TS]

  slamming in one direction or the other [TS]

  I find I can make fine adjustments you [TS]

  just slide it along the flat the flat [TS]

  you know sides of the octagon you can [TS]

  make small adjustments like that but [TS]

  most [TS]

  making small junctions I don't have it [TS]

  at full deflection so I think the [TS]

  octagonal surround doesn't say why not [TS]

  just use a d-pad because you've still [TS]

  got the full range of motion in there [TS]

  and lots of games the other aspect of [TS]

  this is it enough lots again so some of [TS]

  the games that I play lots of games do [TS]

  use full deflection movement in analog [TS]

  games but you still do require fine [TS]

  control so a good example are 3d Mario [TS]

  platformers where you're routinely going [TS]

  at full deflection when you're just [TS]

  running in a particular direction or [TS]

  another and a complication on this or a [TS]

  subtlety of this is that in some Mario [TS]

  platformers not so much now but in the [TS]

  past like mario sunshine on the Gamecube [TS]

  one of the things you can do is you can [TS]

  lock the directional stick in you know [TS]

  straight ahead right and then basically [TS]

  steer Mario or you know you control [TS]

  where he goes on the screen by using [TS]

  this C stick the camera stick because [TS]

  what you're doing is just saying I'm [TS]

  just going straight ahead but I'm going [TS]

  to use the c stick small deflections and [TS]

  seasick not at not at the extremes you [TS]

  know the regular analog stick and your [TS]

  left thumb it is fully deflected going [TS]

  straight forward and you are steering [TS]

  with small subtle movements to the [TS]

  camera stick because as you turn the [TS]

  camera because of the way a relative [TS]

  motion works you know as you turn the [TS]

  camera straight ahead becomes a [TS]

  different direction in the 3d world so [TS]

  that's that's another example of where [TS]

  full deflection is needed in analog gain [TS]

  with fine-tune control and the other [TS]

  thing important points out is that if [TS]

  full deflection is required an octagonal [TS]

  surround prevents it in some directions [TS]

  I don't think that's necessarily the [TS]

  case if you can imagine the the range of [TS]

  motion of an analog stick where a zero [TS]

  is in the middle and then at one of the [TS]

  extremes there's you know your gear 1 or [TS]

  something just look at the octagon and [TS]

  draw a circle that fits within the [TS]

  octagon that is maximum deflection in [TS]

  all directions the fact that you can go [TS]

  past maximum deflection just continues [TS]

  to send the maximum value out through [TS]

  the you know to the to the system so [TS]

  you're not you're not actually missing [TS]

  maximum deflection in some directions [TS]

  maximum deflections achievable in all [TS]

  directions it just so you can go past it [TS]

  when you go into the vertices this is [TS]

  another instance where I'm waving my [TS]

  hands around I hope you can visualize an [TS]

  octagon with a circle inside of it and [TS]

  understand what I'm saying [TS]

  sharp edges he says I mentioned [TS]

  something about sharp edges and a dual [TS]

  shock and he has no idea what I'm [TS]

  talking about there no sharp edges on [TS]

  his controller so I've got my dual shock [TS]

  3 here in front of me the sharp edges [TS]

  that I were talking about where the [TS]

  holes that r1 and l1 come out of so I'll [TS]

  run l1 of the shoulder buttons there are [TS]

  holes in the case and the shoulder [TS]

  buttons poked out of them when you press [TS]

  the shoulder buttons the shoulder runs [TS]

  press in to basically be flush with [TS]

  those holes the holes themselves are [TS]

  kind of beveled where it's not just like [TS]

  a hole cut in anything piece of oven [TS]

  thin plastic wall there's actually a [TS]

  bevel there but the edge of the bevel [TS]

  kind of like the edge of a macbook pro [TS]

  is sharp now it's on an angle so it's [TS]

  like you know the surface of the [TS]

  controller and then there's a bevel on [TS]

  an angle but where those two things meet [TS]

  where the direction of the surface [TS]

  changes from being you know parallel to [TS]

  the surface of the button to tucking in [TS]

  on that bevel that thing is sharp enough [TS]

  that I can imagine you could you know [TS]

  cut something with it if you were to [TS]

  remove the button from the hole and [TS]

  where where I interact with that is in [TS]

  games that require a lot of holding down [TS]

  of r1 so for example Shadow of the [TS]

  Colossus where r1 is the gripping button [TS]

  isn't it basically the main mechanic of [TS]

  that game and for the most of the entire [TS]

  game you'll be trying to hold down r1 in [TS]

  various sequences and it's a tense game [TS]

  and you will find yourself holding on r1 [TS]

  you know using more force than is [TS]

  necessary though and I think it might [TS]

  actually be for sensitive so maybe [TS]

  they're encouraging this does anyone in [TS]

  the chatroom know if r1 and Eleanor are [TS]

  pressure sensitive on the DualShock 3 [TS]

  anyway the point is I'm holding it down [TS]

  for a long time and in a league on hard [TS]

  maybe I wasn't holding on hard that edge [TS]

  is there and it irritates your hand [TS]

  because it's something that you're the [TS]

  fleshy part of your finger is pressing [TS]

  against for for you know hours on and [TS]

  off but mostly on during a very tense [TS]

  game and I've got that little sharps [TS]

  around on the r1 digging into my fingers [TS]

  so you say oh you're holding it too hard [TS]

  or you're the fleshy part of your finger [TS]

  is too fleshy it's it's leaking to that [TS]

  edge or it doesn't really hurt that much [TS]

  it's just an irritant I'm saying is that [TS]

  the trigger should be designed with the [TS]

  idea that a finger is going to be [TS]

  pressing down liner possibly for a long [TS]

  period of time possibly harder than you [TS]

  think it's supposed to be and if they [TS]

  made them pressure-sensitive then [TS]

  there's no excuse because obviously [TS]

  expected people to all down arlynn a lot [TS]

  of people who wrote in with feedback [TS]

  complained about the the PlayStation [TS]

  triggers on the DualShock to [TS]

  three that unlike a trigger on a gun or [TS]

  are many other consoles that sort of [TS]

  hooks your finger did these things [TS]

  sloped away from you so if you're [TS]

  holding them down for a long time slowly [TS]

  they slip out of your finger it's like [TS]

  if a trigger on a gun was you know [TS]

  trigger on a gun looks like a crescent [TS]

  moon kind of pokin out from the gun [TS]

  imagine the Crescent went the other way [TS]

  and that was your gun trigger no one [TS]

  makes gun triggers like that but the [TS]

  PlayStation shoulder buttons are shaped [TS]

  like that especially a you know r1 r2 [TS]

  and r3 r1 r2 a more kind of flat but [TS]

  they are convex instead of concave and [TS]

  finally he talks about xbox asymmetry [TS]

  which is a common complaint about the [TS]

  Xbox from PlayStation fans is that [TS]

  well the analog sticks might be in weird [TS]

  places on the places controller but the [TS]

  Xbox is worth because they put one in [TS]

  the primary control location and one in [TS]

  the secondary location because the [TS]

  buttons are in the primary location on [TS]

  the other side and that means that one [TS]

  of the analog sticks is always in [TS]

  suboptimal position and a lot of people [TS]

  find it difficult when you're playing a [TS]

  game that requires the use of two analog [TS]

  sticks at the same time to coordinate [TS]

  that movement when you can kind of feel [TS]

  that it's not symmetrical in your hand [TS]

  like they're in they're in different [TS]

  positions I agree with that I find I [TS]

  find using dual analog sticks awkward in [TS]

  all situations and the asymmetry of the [TS]

  Xbox can take some getting used to [TS]

  but I think it's still a better design [TS]

  than having both the sticks in the bad [TS]

  location just for the sake of symmetry [TS]

  because a lot of games don't use both [TS]

  sticks in fact I would say most games [TS]

  don't use both sticks maybe if you play [TS]

  all first-person shooters then maybe [TS]

  that's not the case but I play a lot of [TS]

  platformers and third-person games and [TS]

  they tend not to use ball sticks at the [TS]

  same time for the entire course of the [TS]

  game at the end he has a section called [TS]

  of ain't broke don't fix it well you [TS]

  know I suspected that to be the attitude [TS]

  I applaud him for the thoroughness of [TS]

  his points he didn't really convince me [TS]

  of anything but he it's clearly thought [TS]

  about it and and clearly expressed his [TS]

  preferences oh my god this just goes on [TS]

  and on doesn't it I'll try to get [TS]

  through these quickly Xbox controller [TS]

  conspiracy theories from a couple of [TS]

  people toby cool stock rights in with my [TS]

  favorite one saying that the the xbox [TS]

  controller which we talked about the [TS]

  original xbox control that was big and i [TS]

  said i was big because it's like they're [TS]

  they recognized the average game of [TS]

  gamers was going up let's make something [TS]

  for the size for adult and [TS]

  his theory is that it was a a marketing [TS]

  I'm reading from his email marketing [TS]

  sleight of hand in the same vein as [TS]

  those KFC adverts that put the tiny [TS]

  Cheesecake really close to the camera to [TS]

  make it seem a respectable size first of [TS]

  all I am amazed and scared and confused [TS]

  that KFC apparently sells cheesecake is [TS]

  this accurate [TS]

  I never heard like seriously just KFC [TS]

  salt cheesecake now what I don't I'm out [TS]

  of touch [TS]

  apparently they said they probably do I [TS]

  wouldn't surprise me even a little bit [TS]

  if they did it would take a lot for me [TS]

  to buy a cheesecake KFC let me just say [TS]

  that ah oh yeah so the idea is that they [TS]

  made the controller really big because [TS]

  the Xbox console itself was gigantic and [TS]

  this is the the meme for the kids who [TS]

  might not have know this is the Xbox is [TS]

  huge lol all caps with some letters [TS]

  transposed the Xbox is huge LOL meme was [TS]

  huge so to speak from back in the days [TS]

  when the original Xbox was launched [TS]

  because they were the newcomer into the [TS]

  field and Sony was the established base [TS]

  and there's all of the fanboys yelling [TS]

  at each other about whose console is [TS]

  best and uh so Xbox is huge was a big [TS]

  point there which really doesn't even [TS]

  ever made any sense to me [TS]

  except for from ridiculing their [TS]

  hardware design perspective because do [TS]

  you care how big the console is you're [TS]

  not you're not holding it it's not like [TS]

  you have to carry it on your back it [TS]

  sits there in the entertainment center [TS]

  right okay how big that you know unless [TS]

  it's noisy or very hot er I don't know [TS]

  that was kind of a nonsensical point but [TS]

  the the idea was that Microsoft knew [TS]

  that people would be very upset that [TS]

  their console is big for some and [TS]

  logical reason which they were that [TS]

  would be an accurate prediction and so [TS]

  made the control is really big so then [TS]

  when shown in a product shot the [TS]

  controllers scaled next to the the box [TS]

  it would make both one look normal-sized [TS]

  I think this is a crazy conspiracy [TS]

  theory because he points out himself why [TS]

  wouldn't they just move the controller [TS]

  farther away from the camera to make it [TS]

  look smaller moved the console closer or [TS]

  do it there's so many other things you [TS]

  can you would not design the size of [TS]

  your console he helps for for marketing [TS]

  purposes to trick people into thinking [TS]

  it was a different size than it was I [TS]

  think they really did believe that the [TS]

  controller should be large for large [TS]

  hands someone else wrote me and I forgot [TS]

  I don't have this on my notes I'm sorry [TS]

  but to tell me that one of the things [TS]

  Microsoft was testing the controller for [TS]

  is they want we wanted a player to be [TS]

  able to put down the controller and [TS]

  balance it on their [TS]

  to be able to grab their drink or some [TS]

  chips or something to eat them so it had [TS]

  to be big enough and sturdy enough to [TS]

  like sort of sit you you know balance on [TS]

  the person's leg or sit on the couch so [TS]

  they could do some other things they [TS]

  recognized people who play games at the [TS]

  same times that they're eating munchies [TS]

  or whatever I found this story slightly [TS]

  more plausible than the the marketing [TS]

  gimmick story but both of them sound [TS]

  kind of strange to me [TS]

  and finally I had a fairly comprehensive [TS]

  Sony defense from someone who may or may [TS]

  not be affiliated with Sony in some way [TS]

  let's just say that I will not name this [TS]

  person in in the past episode I dumped [TS]

  on the Sony's controller a lot and [TS]

  complained about their lack of [TS]

  innovation and I also made lots of [TS]

  subtle digs about while they tacked on [TS]

  the analog stick set for the n64 analog [TS]

  stick came out and they added a rumble [TS]

  feature because the new Nintendo was [TS]

  adding a rumble feature and the [TS]

  PlayStation Move is that a PlayStation 6 [TS]

  axis was there because they heard that [TS]

  Nintendo had some sort of motion control [TS]

  so they threw some accelerometers into [TS]

  it and a PlayStation Move was clearly [TS]

  just a reaction to the Wii all these [TS]

  ports at points I said this is just [TS]

  speculation I don't know any of this for [TS]

  sure sometimes the timing doesn't line [TS]

  up people so how could that be because [TS]

  this came out before that came out like [TS]

  timings for product launches versus [TS]

  product development are fuzzy enough [TS]

  that you don't know like well did they [TS]

  just hear from there you know from [TS]

  inside sources that Nintendo was [TS]

  planning a motion control so they put [TS]

  accelerometers in a six axis or did they [TS]

  have no idea than 10 they was doing [TS]

  motor control and they plans exactly [TS]

  this all along and on and on with the [TS]

  rumble feature who had it first or who [TS]

  had the idea first and stuff like that [TS]

  but the meta point before I just discuss [TS]

  its individual points is that it doesn't [TS]

  really matter who got what person who [TS]

  deployed it matters what people shipped [TS]

  and the bottom line is the Sony shipped [TS]

  the same controller essentially for [TS]

  years and years and intend o continued [TS]

  to ship something it was different they [TS]

  kept trying to improve that's my main [TS]

  complaint doesn't matter who got what [TS]

  idea from where or you know who was the [TS]

  first technically the first to do this [TS]

  or whether this thing was done it seems [TS]

  like it's derivative of that simply [TS]

  because that launched first but really [TS]

  is not derivative all it was completely [TS]

  independently invented I don't really [TS]

  care who invented it all you know I do [TS]

  care a little bit in terms of stupid [TS]

  bragging rights and stuff but that [TS]

  doesn't change the physical reality of [TS]

  the controller and that's really what I [TS]

  was complain [TS]

  about the product as it exists ignoring [TS]

  how it got to be that way and who was [TS]

  first and who copied who or anything [TS]

  like that but this person's defense was [TS]

  very comprehensive he said that the [TS]

  analog controls in the PlayStation had [TS]

  nothing to do with the n64 that the [TS]

  sixaxis had nothing to do with knowing [TS]

  that the Wii was doing some motion [TS]

  control stuff and the PlayStation Move [TS]

  this is the best one the PlayStation [TS]

  Move this really stretches my my [TS]

  credibility meters had nothing to do [TS]

  with the Wii because it was simply an [TS]

  extension of the the I toy which had [TS]

  Sony had been developing for years since [TS]

  we don't know for sure and none of us [TS]

  work in Sony and none of us can prove [TS]

  any of these things I invite anyone to [TS]

  you know look at the evidence and decide [TS]

  for themselves I have one way that I [TS]

  think it probably is this person [TS]

  probably has more inside knowledge than [TS]

  I do and he thinks it was the other way [TS]

  but then again I believe this person [TS]

  also is heavily invested in their belief [TS]

  that Sony is awesome so believe what you [TS]

  will but I won't that the point I would [TS]

  make is that this is not this doesn't [TS]

  change the quality of the controller and [TS]

  I really care who had what first Hey [TS]

  look at that [TS]

  I think I made it through the controller [TS]

  fall Wow only 87 minutes she's that's [TS]

  why I tried to go that I skip stuff [TS]

  believe no I skip stuff that is hard to [TS]

  believe do you want to know that we'd [TS]

  honored you want to try and do this uh [TS]

  this quote can I hit two soundbite [TS]

  I had two other topics one of them was [TS]

  the CES talked about CES a little bit in [TS]

  the other ones Wikipedia I guess we have [TS]

  no time for Wikipedia if you do you [TS]

  think we have time for me to talk about [TS]

  CES obviously well I'm not sure what you [TS]

  want to say but um we should give it a [TS]

  shot if for no other reason then I got [TS]

  the got this thing queued up yeah let's [TS]

  there you go [TS]

  you want to hear it some cost no so [TS]

  we're not ready to play that yes all [TS]

  right [TS]

  I will save my discussion of Wikipedia [TS]

  for a future show congratulations to [TS]

  people who made it this far into the [TS]

  show there is a non gaming topic coming [TS]

  up now at the tail end of the show next [TS]

  time I will try very hard not to make it [TS]

  a gaming related show and they will just [TS]

  talk about what could beat her from the [TS]

  very top [TS]

  Cesc us was this week I did not attend [TS]

  in case you didn't know that I saw many [TS]

  of my friends online and sites that I [TS]

  read it did attend and complained [TS]

  bitterly about CES and there was much [TS]

  discussion about [TS]

  not so much about what is that CES but [TS]

  is CS important is it worth paying [TS]

  attention to the show is too bloated [TS]

  people who were there who weren't there [TS]

  all that stuff and Gruber has always had [TS]

  a great link [TS]

  he had a link to Alexis madrigals [TS]

  article at the Atlantic called why you [TS]

  can ignore CES and he looked quoted a [TS]

  little excerpt from it and say let's say [TS]

  let's say you pay close attention to [TS]

  last year's CES and the tablets that [TS]

  were hyper the show how important they [TS]

  have they turned out to be one year [TS]

  later so if you can remember last year [TS]

  CES was all about a windows slaked and [TS]

  all these tablets and they're going to [TS]

  compete with the iPad it was tons of [TS]

  products introduced in this article goes [TS]

  through all of them says where are they [TS]

  now and the answer to where are they now [TS]

  is basically nowhere or nowhere good and [TS]

  that's that's in a nutshell the main [TS]

  complaint about CES lots of things are [TS]

  shown there but how much of that stuff [TS]

  even ships it's kind of like an auto [TS]

  show where they show all these concept [TS]

  cars it's kind of cool to look at all [TS]

  the concept cars and stuff but then [TS]

  you're like alright well one can [TS]

  actually buy this and when I can buy it [TS]

  will look anything like that will it [TS]

  actually be any good or will it just be [TS]

  you know uglify dand and not interesting [TS]

  and you know but CES does fill a role I [TS]

  guess um you will allow it yeah and [TS]

  there are were actually interesting [TS]

  things that see us I want to go through [TS]

  movas it will make the section longer [TS]

  maybe we'll talk about them later so I [TS]

  followed the CES coverage and I'm [TS]

  ignored most of it but there were a few [TS]

  things here and there that I was [TS]

  interested in so I think there is still [TS]

  a role for CES if only for consumer and [TS]

  it is the Consumer Electronics Show [TS]

  I think CES is at its best when it [TS]

  concentrates on actual consumer [TS]

  electronics but like all things in this [TS]

  world it is slowly becoming more and [TS]

  more computer fide so Apple and [TS]

  Microsoft they're big where it used to [TS]

  be like Toshiba and sharp and Sony or [TS]

  people who made what we used to consider [TS]

  inert consumer electronics products [TS]

  versus general-purpose computers but now [TS]

  everything is basically a computer so it [TS]

  makes sense it's some sort of [TS]

  convergence but I think CES is at its [TS]

  best when it's not computer products [TS]

  because consumer electronic companies [TS]

  tend to make very lousy computer [TS]

  products but the thing I want to get to [TS]

  in the clip is that for some reason I [TS]

  find myself like I guess people tweet [TS]

  about and stuff i watch these keynotes [TS]

  that i real [TS]

  I shouldn't be watching or really have [TS]

  no interest in so I watched the [TS]

  Microsoft keynote at CES finger-roll [TS]

  they said it's gonna be the last one let [TS]

  me let me take a look at it and I've [TS]

  seen as you imagine a lot of keynotes in [TS]

  my day most of them Steve Jobs keynotes [TS]

  but I watched you know the Palm Pre [TS]

  launches and Amazon presentations and [TS]

  all sorts of keynotes and most people [TS]

  generally agree that the Apple keynotes [TS]

  are the best you know it's like oh that [TS]

  they're the most exciting they're sort [TS]

  of the gold standard for how you should [TS]

  do presentations of new technology [TS]

  products and I tweeted during the the [TS]

  Microsoft keynote it reminded me that [TS]

  professionalism is not the reason that [TS]

  people loved Apple Steve Jobs keynotes [TS]

  and professionalism with or without [TS]

  scare quotes like it depends on how you [TS]

  define that a lot of people who respond [TS]

  to Twitter quote had a different [TS]

  definition in mind than I did when I [TS]

  wrote it but 140 characters is not a lot [TS]

  to elaborate what I had in mind was that [TS]

  when you think of professionalism is [TS]

  especially if someone's speaking on [TS]

  stage someone who's like a professional [TS]

  orator who they're not going to they're [TS]

  going to do the job require them to [TS]

  deliver your your message in a competent [TS]

  matter they're going to enunciate there [TS]

  they're not going to stumble over their [TS]

  words they're going to have a clear [TS]

  message with forceful statements and you [TS]

  know not lots of vague weasel words lots [TS]

  that not lots of stumblings competent [TS]

  demos where everything works like that's [TS]

  what I think of as professionalism and a [TS]

  lot of people say boy those applique [TS]

  notes they're awesome like that they [TS]

  rehearse them for hours they're so [TS]

  professional like all the demos are [TS]

  spot-on [TS]

  everything is timed down to the second [TS]

  if the audio visuals are awesome and I [TS]

  think that's not why people love Steve [TS]

  Jobs keynotes or Apple keynotes in [TS]

  general and to demonstrate this I wanted [TS]

  to when I was looking at this thing I [TS]

  said boy this this section that I'm [TS]

  looking at right here it was a Craig [TS]

  Davidson from Microsoft's Xbox team I [TS]

  believe he's actually in the marketing [TS]

  department we're just fine I mean you [TS]

  put your marketing or they put Phil [TS]

  Schiller up on the stage and Apple he's [TS]

  the marketing guy right you put your [TS]

  marketing guy up on the stage because [TS]

  you want a professional presentation and [TS]

  presumably the marketing guys are the [TS]

  professionals in your organization who [TS]

  are great at presenting the face of the [TS]

  company in a professional manner as well [TS]

  you you can play that clip now this is [TS]

  Craig David [TS]

  and a random excerpt from the Microsoft [TS]

  CES keynote I don't want you to pay [TS]

  attention to what he's saying in [TS]

  particular what particular products [TS]

  whoever just just listen to this guy [TS]

  talk for a minute our growing lineup of [TS]

  great TV and entertainment partners on [TS]

  Xbox including AT&T u-verse TV tell us [TS]

  Telefonica and many more with [TS]

  lightning-fast voice control with [TS]

  connect a world of entertainment content [TS]

  and the ease of discovery using Bing [TS]

  Xbox is your all-in-one entertainment [TS]

  device for the living room all the [TS]

  experiences you just saw are available [TS]

  now but what comes next at this very [TS]

  moment we're working with some of the [TS]

  world's best-known brands creative [TS]

  artists and production companies to [TS]

  create unprecedented new experiences for [TS]

  the TV soon you'll move away from [TS]

  one-way experiences of just watching TV [TS]

  to two-way experiences where you'll [TS]

  engage with the TV to show you what this [TS]

  looks like [TS]

  please welcome my colleague Jamie Bauer [TS]

  and her friend Ainsley [TS]

  anyway yeah so they had eventually some [TS]

  other people come and stage and do a [TS]

  demo uh [TS]

  I don't want to pick on this person [TS]

  talking because I think that was it I [TS]

  mean as a reason he he did a good job [TS]

  speaking right you could understand what [TS]

  he was saying [TS]

  domestically delivering was fairly clear [TS]

  nice of a reverb yeah not the thing that [TS]

  I all the people in chat room are [TS]

  complaining about because they're primed [TS]

  to already agree with me is that it [TS]

  sounds like an infomercial and the times [TS]

  the point that I'll get is it sounds [TS]

  like he's reading a script but because [TS]

  he is the UH it sounds like he's reading [TS]

  a press release someone worked on this [TS]

  language and decided this is the message [TS]

  we want to deliver and we're going to [TS]

  have a professional who's great orator [TS]

  or you know I'm probably obviously not a [TS]

  great orator because everyone doesn't [TS]

  like how he talks up there reading the [TS]

  lines that we wrote in our meeting for [TS]

  it so he's reading marketing copy right [TS]

  right [TS]

  and part of the problem is the marketing [TS]

  copy is self filled with buzzwords and [TS]

  experiences and you know declarations [TS]

  that you will now experience the you [TS]

  know power of this fully operational you [TS]

  know the whole business [TS]

  it sounds off-putting doesn't get as the [TS]

  thing I think people loved about jobs [TS]

  and out presentations I bet they were [TS]

  rehearsed like crazy and I'm sure jobs [TS]

  had in mind exactly what he was going to [TS]

  say but it sounded like he was really [TS]

  enthusiastic about what he was [TS]

  presenting uh he really cared about this [TS]

  team well I'm sure Craig Davison really [TS]

  does care about this stuff and like the [TS]

  people who work in a box team really are [TS]

  passionate about what they're doing they [TS]

  think it's awesome but it's not coming [TS]

  across in their presentation [TS]

  that's the problems not the problem that [TS]

  they're like heartless and they don't [TS]

  care about their stuff and jobs are so [TS]

  much more passionate and he loved his [TS]

  stuff they all care about what they're [TS]

  doing but Jobs was able to and all that [TS]

  that we'll be really able to convey that [TS]

  to the audience that let me show you [TS]

  know you can tell watching the guy you [TS]

  know he's really excited about this new [TS]

  version of iPhone or whatever that he [TS]

  thinks is sometimes he thinks it's [TS]

  awesome and it's clear that we don't [TS]

  think it's awesome we think it's dumb [TS]

  but it's clear that he thinks this thing [TS]

  is great and by the same token sometimes [TS]

  he'll show something that he doesn't [TS]

  think is that great and you can kind of [TS]

  tell like oh he's kind of bored with [TS]

  this party just wants to get through it [TS]

  like it's you know it's a more human [TS]

  presentation where it's not the [TS]

  professionalism that drew us to it it's [TS]

  the humanity it is that he's expressing [TS]

  his own emotion and conveying it to the [TS]

  audience in an effective matter and that [TS]

  also means yes sometimes he stumbles he [TS]

  talks it in a sort of a you know if you [TS]

  wrote it down the transcript of it [TS]

  wouldn't be correct grammar is there's [TS]

  no like sentences with periods and [TS]

  commas and all you know but if you if [TS]

  you were to transcribe what what Craig [TS]

  Davidson was saying I would imagine it [TS]

  was really perfect yeah put it right [TS]

  into a press release it's like ready to [TS]

  go uh there are many lessons to take [TS]

  from Apple and Steve Jobs presenting [TS]

  rehearse a lot make sure your demos work [TS]

  be clear with your message have you know [TS]

  simple slides don't don't sell pass the [TS]

  clothes and one of them is probably you [TS]

  know be excited about the products [TS]

  yourself and I bet Microsoft thinks that [TS]

  they're doing all that and Steve Ballmer [TS]

  is the same way if you see him sitting [TS]

  there with [TS]

  his name from American Idol like I bet I [TS]

  don't know maybe Steve Ballmer isn't [TS]

  actually excited about things I think he [TS]

  might be excited about them and [TS]

  obviously the paid actor who was up [TS]

  there your presentation he's not [TS]

  invested in the success of Xbox he's a [TS]

  paid actor so that's also thing against [TS]

  you but I bet the Xbox team is really [TS]

  excited about what they're doing they've [TS]

  just failed to convey that in their [TS]

  keynote because they're so paranoid [TS]

  about being professional their marketing [TS]

  department is turning into a bunch of [TS]

  robots and I think that said I think [TS]

  Microsoft needs to watch more Steve Jobs [TS]

  keynotes and take away all the points [TS]

  about competency but also think about [TS]

  the humanity that's being expressed [TS]

  there and that that's what Microsoft is [TS]

  missing and that's in general with CES [TS]

  is miss hey I got through that pretty [TS]

  quickly I was let me know is no problem [TS]

  for you yeah we'll save Wikipedia for [TS]

  another day God you will not believe the [TS]

  number of stuff I skipped on those [TS]

  controllers really but I thank you all [TS]

  for the controller feedback I tried to [TS]

  air as many of the valid points that I [TS]

  thought I could without overstaying my [TS]

  welcome why you got to do it dan I'm [TS]

  sorry [TS]

  the whole show I went self-control my [TS]

  part of them in Zen Zen Buddhism [TS]

  I'm not Zen ninety nine minutes I don't [TS]

  know the right words for what you are [TS]

  but whatever the thing is that you [TS]

  subscribe to self-control is part of it [TS]

  right and ninety nine minutes I said I [TS]

  had a live made a little note I said if [TS]

  he goes 99 minutes then I will applaud [TS]

  him all right you did it I'll give you [TS]

  that one [TS]

  all right [TS]

  so we're done show number 50 huh fifty [TS]

  fifty these things in the can yep and [TS]

  good year big year the big question is [TS]

  will we will we be doing any more of [TS]

  these shows that's what remains to be [TS]

  seen will we do another year no one no [TS]

  one will know they'll just have to tune [TS]

  in next week and see what happens [TS]

  actually next week we should mention [TS]

  this now because in a mere like four [TS]

  days from now Monday which is a holiday [TS]

  here for many people not for me in the [TS]

  United States ah we are going to be [TS]

  doing a special special show is that [TS]

  correct that is correct I'm very happy [TS]

  that you remember well I haven't here on [TS]

  my calendar that's good we are doing a [TS]

  the first at what I would hesitate I [TS]

  would be very hesitant to call it a show [TS]

  because the implication that it's it's a [TS]

  show implies that it's maybe weekly or [TS]

  ongoing or whatever here's all say is [TS]

  that we have created a small venue for [TS]

  which to talk about things relating to [TS]

  movies that fall outside of the scope of [TS]

  the other shows now on the talk show we [TS]

  would do episodes of where we would talk [TS]

  about James Bond you didn't especially [TS]

  want to do that you didn't want to make [TS]

  it part of this and we weren't sure [TS]

  would we do it as another a whole other [TS]

  episode would we do it as a different [TS]

  show so what I'm probably going to do is [TS]

  just sort of have a splinter show if you [TS]

  will like a five-by-five goes to the [TS]

  movies kind of thing as a place where [TS]

  this show and maybe others like it where [TS]

  we go what we're doing is we're talking [TS]

  about Goodfellas and I will probably [TS]

  watch the movie at least two or three [TS]

  more times before Monday when we are set [TS]

  to talk about the show just that I feel [TS]

  fully you know back up to speed I've [TS]

  probably only seen the movie 50 or 60 [TS]

  times so far so I will I want to see it [TS]

  a few more times before I feel I'm ready [TS]

  to really talk about it but the last [TS]

  time that I watched it [TS]

  I had I realized I had a very different [TS]

  perspective on it than I did well I [TS]

  would say as a young man but really as a [TS]

  kid when I was watching it I'm now [TS]

  having a family didn't really have a [TS]

  family the first time I saw it the same [TS]

  way you your opinion changes you have a [TS]

  whole different take on Henry I'm [TS]

  looking forward to talking about this [TS]

  with you it's a special like a TV [TS]

  remember kids they had the special where [TS]

  they had a little the little word [TS]

  special it would spin at you with that [TS]

  music with the percussion yeah yeah [TS]

  that's what it's a special it's not it's [TS]

  not gonna be all the time the Lord knows [TS]

  we have horn any time maybe it's only [TS]

  once finding time well you know never [TS]

  know we could do the Godfather ones [TS]

  after at some point but you did [TS]

  scheduling we were talking about how [TS]

  it's difficult to get our schedules [TS]

  together for more than just our weekly [TS]

  show but it's a special it's a treat [TS]

  people are asking if it will be live and [TS]

  when it will be it is it is currently [TS]

  scheduled to be LA I believe it's live [TS]

  right yeah well I why not yeah I don't [TS]

  we'll do a live will do it alive and it [TS]

  will be at eat 12:00 noon eastern on [TS]

  Monday which is the what is that what [TS]

  they say third today is the 13th so that [TS]

  was easy the 16th and people welcome the [TS]

  tune in now here's another question for [TS]

  you will I there's so few potentials for [TS]

  this on a show without us having to [TS]

  bleep everything but do you do you want [TS]

  to have sound bites my thinking was that [TS]

  we might want to have some but it was [TS]

  out of respect you know we want to have [TS]

  that sound bites I don't know if they [TS]

  need to be done live I think sound bites [TS]

  are often better put in later so that I [TS]

  can houmous Eisley queued I can kill [TS]

  them all out man [TS]

  I have this whole soundboard thing here [TS]

  and Qi can queue up a couple hundred [TS]

  sound effects if you want if as long as [TS]

  you give me a list ahead of time I don't [TS]

  know if I have things that I want to [TS]

  queue up in particular I mean we all we [TS]

  all know what you're gonna you know this [TS]

  this popular scenes and sayings that I [TS]

  think we can remember but the thing is [TS]

  about if I mention something you don't [TS]

  have to clip ready so out you could add [TS]

  it in post [TS]

  yeah alright [TS]

  you know really I would imagine the [TS]

  people listening to the show oh I've [TS]

  already seen the movie enough that they [TS]

  can hear the clips in their head but [TS]

  yeah it'll be nice to happy the clips at [TS]

  it and I'll see what we can do now I [TS]

  want to promise anything yeah I mean [TS]

  other what other thing is we don't end [TS]

  up just playing the whole movie it's [TS]

  really you know like all what I would [TS]

  say you know you know and you end up [TS]

  playing no more [TS]

  so and lord knows I'm gonna have enough [TS]

  to talk about oh what a good miss so so [TS]

  we want to set a cap we want to set a [TS]

  cap at about four or five hours no no [TS]

  going beyond right so by dinner time we [TS]

  should wrap it we're gonna use the the [TS]

  Merlin cap you know what that is I do [TS]

  not know what that and you got to get up [TS]

  and piss the show's over no fright hello [TS]

  some he's gone through that sometimes [TS]

  he'd be like oh hang on can you pause a [TS]

  second I gotta go there and he do that [TS]

  once a choice at least I think does it [TS]

  almost every week it's all about bladder [TS]

  capacity because how long is shows gonna [TS]

  be alright so everybody can tune in on [TS]

  that for Monday or if not you can you [TS]

  can go to five by five TV and you'll see [TS]

  it there it will be there and of course [TS]

  we will also probably refer back to it [TS]

  and give the URL in the next episode of [TS]

  this show hypocritical thanks everybody [TS]

  for tuning in and hanging out with us [TS]

  for the last year yep it's been a blast [TS]

  that really appreciated all the [TS]

  listeners and all the feedback and [TS]

  especially people in the chatroom are [TS]

  loyal our most loyal of our loyal [TS]

  listeners right regardless of the size [TS]

  of their hands we appreciate them so [TS]

  have a good week you too [TS]

  you [TS]