Hypercritical

47: Brute Force Attack

 

  this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses [TS]

  nothing is so perfect it cannot be [TS]

  complained about by my co-host John [TS]

  siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin [TS]

  today is December 23rd 2011 it's Friday [TS]

  this is episode number 47 we have a [TS]

  couple of sponsors that we would like to [TS]

  thank very much for making this show [TS]

  possible the first one is tap folio an [TS]

  easy and beautiful way to look at stock [TS]

  markets create a simple watch list or [TS]

  start a real or mock portfolio in two [TS]

  seconds a true touch experience for your [TS]

  iPad rendered in glorious OpenGL tap [TS]

  folios third update hits the App Store [TS]

  with a small bonus it's completely free [TS]

  for the holidays get it and share it [TS]

  from facebook.com slash tap folio [TS]

  bandwidth for this episode of [TS]

  hypercritical is brought to you by [TS]

  stitcher smart radio here all the shows [TS]

  from five by five and thousands of other [TS]

  great podcasts on demand and on the go [TS]

  with stitchers free mobile app stitcher [TS]

  calm / 5 is where you'll find it you can [TS]

  also win 100 bucks hello john siracusa [TS]

  of massachusetts hello Dan Benjamin of [TS]

  the lower part of the United States [TS]

  wherever you love Florida Texas that's [TS]

  it I know I was born and raised in [TS]

  Philadelphia Pennsylvania right but I [TS]

  mean like as a Riesling adult uh as an [TS]

  adult I lived in South Florida Central [TS]

  Florida and Austin Texas and North [TS]

  Carolina Raleigh area there you go for a [TS]

  while more southern states yeah try to [TS]

  hit them all I'm done now all right stay [TS]

  here for a while I'm gonna start today [TS]

  is a episode with a quote this is from [TS]

  Wallace set Stanley ser si y re okay [TS]

  nothing to do it would you call him a [TS]

  super ser I don't know I don't know if [TS]

  that's how you pronounce his name he was [TS]

  a professor at Columbia University in [TS]

  the early 1900's he died 1972 according [TS]

  to Wikipedia probably not a Super Saiyan [TS]

  and this quote that I just looked up is [TS]

  from The Wall Street Journal in 1973 [TS]

  okay I don't know how I guess they [TS]

  quoted him after his death post post [TS]

  post whom ously quoted yes I quote [TS]

  assess academic politics is the most [TS]

  vicious and bitter form of politics [TS]

  because the stakes are so low have you [TS]

  heard that saying before I've never [TS]

  heard that before [TS]

  I have I heard many times before but [TS]

  they had no idea who it was attributed [TS]

  to so I looked it up and that quote [TS]

  applies to two topics from the last show [TS]

  I think and we will cover both of them [TS]

  in the follow-up segment Wow starting [TS]

  with the most trivial of the two with [TS]

  lowest stakes and of course had the most [TS]

  vicious and bitter feedback from readers [TS]

  sure and that is the offhanded comment I [TS]

  made during some other topic about how I [TS]

  didn't like how some fortune article had [TS]

  made Steve Jobs his last name possessive [TS]

  right and they had written it Jay OBS ' [TS]

  and I said I didn't like that you did [TS]

  not like I liked Jay OBS apostrophe s [TS]

  now for the record I don't remember you [TS]

  saying that you thought that it was [TS]

  wrong I mean maybe I'm remembering this [TS]

  incorrectly I don't remember you saying [TS]

  that's wrong as much as perhaps [TS]

  something along the lines of that's not [TS]

  the way to do it that's not the way I [TS]

  like to do it or that doesn't make sense [TS]

  you were certainly I don't like it was [TS]

  what I said but yeah which which is true [TS]

  but then you then you asked well before [TS]

  we get to that so it regardless of what [TS]

  I said that the readers lots and lots of [TS]

  feedback on this lots of feedback [TS]

  Twitter lots of direct email to my arse [TS]

  account lots of email through the forum [TS]

  and of course the most vicious readers [TS]

  were very sure that whatever their [TS]

  position was was exactly correct like [TS]

  that there was there's no ambiguity [TS]

  there's no debate no conflict [TS]

  to quote Darth Vader and that is just a [TS]

  clear-cut issue and of course we got [TS]

  feedback in both sides of that clear-cut [TS]

  in one direction the other number when [TS]

  we talked about it your first thing you [TS]

  asked me after I said I didn't like it [TS]

  at all [TS]

  he said well isn't this just a style [TS]

  issue and I said [TS]

  well see when people say a style issue [TS]

  I'm not quite sure what they mean I mean [TS]

  what I said was I don't I don't really [TS]

  think it's like a style issue like how [TS]

  you choose to write but then I said you [TS]

  know different style guides say [TS]

  different things but you know some style [TS]

  guide say you should do it this way some [TS]

  song I'd say you should do it the other [TS]

  way so it's not it's clearly an issue [TS]

  with a I don't think anybody has the [TS]

  authority to say this is the absolute [TS]

  right way to do it because because the [TS]

  opinions do vary so much but I very [TS]

  strongly prefer one particular way so if [TS]

  I was creating my style guide obviously [TS]

  I would say that you should do it this [TS]

  way so I guess some example some [TS]

  examples from Twitter and email stuff of [TS]

  things that people said so here is I [TS]

  guess this is an email here is Brian [TS]

  Lennon bram sorry Brian [TS]

  Brandon Lennox saying this is not a [TS]

  stylistic choice I mean that's as [TS]

  straightforward as you can get this is [TS]

  not a stylistic choice the fortunes [TS]

  treatment was incorrect and Isaacson [TS]

  miraculously gets a right Isaacson's [TS]

  book by the way it says J OBS apostrophe [TS]

  s which is the way I like it better so [TS]

  now you're a fan of Isaacson and I don't [TS]

  know so this is this is Brandon Lennox [TS]

  and he said then he falls it up by [TS]

  saying I speak with the authority of an [TS]

  amateur bloggers so obviously he's [TS]

  little tongue in cheek there ah lots of [TS]

  feedback from people whose Nate whose [TS]

  last names ended s to example there Adam [TS]

  weeks and Rob Matthews and both of them [TS]

  prefer to have the apostrophe s added to [TS]

  the end of their names and Rob Matthews [TS]

  actually recommends reading the book [TS]

  eats shoots and leaves everything that [TS]

  one have not seen that one it's fairly [TS]

  well known like book about grammar and [TS]

  punctuation never never seen it made it [TS]

  through my English degree without ever [TS]

  hearing event and I think that's what [TS]

  eats shoots and leaves yeah I part of [TS]

  the book for I think I've a read part of [TS]

  it but I'm presuming that it's support [TS]

  you know when I'm looking at the I'm [TS]

  looking at the cover now here on Amazon [TS]

  which I'll put this in the show notes [TS]

  and and it is familiar to me I'm pretty [TS]

  sure I have seen this but I hey yeah why [TS]

  not like refer to the Chicago Manual of [TS]

  style for that so and then so those are [TS]

  on one side on the other side you've got [TS]

  Josh Biggs I can't help reading his [TS]

  names and I think blast Biggs where are [TS]

  you well here he is he's on Twitter [TS]

  uh says I don't know what kind of school [TS]

  Syracuse who went to but as a person [TS]

  with last name that ends in s the proper [TS]

  possessive is esta pasto he's a last [TS]

  name s ender who likes it the other way [TS]

  he just likes s apostrophe ed and then [TS]

  he says and for the record s apostrophe [TS]

  s is the British Standard whereas the s [TS]

  apostrophe is the American convention [TS]

  hmm most of the people who are just so [TS]

  sure of whatever they're both these [TS]

  people who are who are you know I like [TS]

  it this way because I have last name [TS]

  ending with s that gives me some sort of [TS]

  authority to say how it should be one [TS]

  way the other obviously even the people [TS]

  with last names ending in S can't agree [TS]

  but but so people are just so sure about [TS]

  it and it makes me wonder no they don't [TS]

  they don't even phrase it in like I like [TS]

  it this way better or whatever just like [TS]

  there is one correct way josh biggs is [TS]

  saying there's one correct way for the [TS]

  british standard is one correct way for [TS]

  america no ambiguity i mean i guess it's [TS]

  hard to get mp18 one in 140 character so [TS]

  that may not be a fair characterization [TS]

  and then some fellow named Dan Benjamin [TS]

  response to Josh Biggs and says I like [TS]

  to know yeah I'm an English major [TS]

  see how polite a I'm not to correct him [TS]

  on the trail never correct you on the [TS]

  show see that when I read that it makes [TS]

  you think that you think I needed to be [TS]

  corrected and that you have a strong [TS]

  opinion one way or the other honest I do [TS]

  I do what is yours your show that I'm [TS]

  looking you know I know what is your [TS]

  opinion I ask ' of course obviously I do [TS]

  think there's ambiguity well no no no [TS]

  ambiguity oh did now now listen if you [TS]

  if you're Steve Jobs or Matthews or [TS]

  whoever and you you want to add the [TS]

  apostrophe s you know that's your [TS]

  preference just like you can wear a blue [TS]

  sweater instead of a red sweater who [TS]

  cares you know it's your your own choice [TS]

  but as far as the one true correct way [TS]

  to do it of course it's s apostrophe [TS]

  come on it has to be the funeral edit [TS]

  because the fewer letters the better [TS]

  always alright so how do you you know [TS]

  had you come to that realization how did [TS]

  that come to it because fewer letters if [TS]

  your letters are better the less I have [TS]

  to write or type the better so it's that [TS]

  it's like your personal your personal [TS]

  rule is the fewer letters have to type [TS]

  the better therefore this is what I was [TS]

  taught in my in my technical writing [TS]

  classes the more efficient you can be [TS]

  for example [TS]

  don't say utilize when you can say use [TS]

  you know you focus on the most clear [TS]

  concise effective way to communicate [TS]

  something so if it if the choice is left [TS]

  up to me and I'm going to type J OB s [TS]

  apostrophe s or J OB s apostrophe why I [TS]

  add the extra SH I don't need down who [TS]

  needs that [TS]

  but mostly 2011 who had strong opinions [TS]

  when we did not say from where their [TS]

  opinions come a lot of them I assume [TS]

  that I mean most people get their [TS]

  grammar rules from either what they've [TS]

  been taught in school or reading grammar [TS]

  books after the fact I mean because most [TS]

  people aren't born with any particular [TS]

  preference or grammar rules a lot of [TS]

  them are kind of arbitrary anyway but [TS]

  what we're all trying to do is how do [TS]

  you pronounce it let me ask this John [TS]

  how do you pronounce it so if you say [TS]

  that they're there this iPad belongs to [TS]

  John math uses this is John math uses [TS]

  rather let me correct myself this is [TS]

  John math uses iPad would you say that [TS]

  yeah it's JC to cut the problem is it [TS]

  main jobs is easier for me this is jobs [TS]

  as iPad yeah it's a little off my tongue [TS]

  that's a little better but the problem [TS]

  is none of these are elegant solutions [TS]

  the best way to say it is this iPad [TS]

  belongs to ya such a perso so no matter [TS]

  what what you did you're between a rock [TS]

  and a hard place you're forced into a [TS]

  corner and there's no good way to do it [TS]

  I would actually suggest that nobody [TS]

  should have a name that ends with an S [TS]

  that's not I think it's preposterous I [TS]

  agree with that we should implement it [TS]

  right away yeah this is we should all [TS]

  use a ski let's get on the problem isn't [TS]

  whether there's to be an S after the [TS]

  apostrophe the problem is why our people [TS]

  haven't asked Stan of their name at all [TS]

  in the English language so for for these [TS]

  types of issues like I have I have my [TS]

  personal preference my personal [TS]

  preference is mostly based on kind of [TS]

  like the same reason that the Gruber who [TS]

  we'll get to in a little bit likes to [TS]

  put the sentence ending punctuation [TS]

  outside yeah have we ever talked about [TS]

  that did we talk about that here no but [TS]

  you know that's I mean that's more of a [TS]

  clear-cut case where there is a British [TS]

  standard and an American standard I [TS]

  think most people agree on that the [TS]

  British one is the sentence ending [TS]

  punctuation outside an Englishman [TS]

  but the reason Gruber likes it on the [TS]

  outside it's the same reason that I like [TS]

  apostrophe s and that it's kind of like [TS]

  a programmer mindset where you're like [TS]

  well the thing I'm quoting doesn't [TS]

  necessarily have the period in it so why [TS]

  should the the sentence ending or even [TS]

  like the comma or whatever go inside the [TS]

  quote if it's not part of the quote you [TS]

  know what I mean like say you're quoting [TS]

  something you want to be exclamation but [TS]

  the quote is an exclamation you quoting [TS]

  it as an explanation that you know [TS]

  desquamation to go outside it's just [TS]

  it's like if you're making a string [TS]

  literal in a programming language it's [TS]

  clear that things inside the delimiters [TS]

  are part of the literal oil and things [TS]

  outside aren't like the statement ending [TS]

  semicolon and c or c++ doesn't go inside [TS]

  the quotes unless that's part of the [TS]

  string literal that's a very good very [TS]

  good argument in favor of doing it that [TS]

  way right and I think that's why he does [TS]

  me and he makes its own style guide [TS]

  right so this is how I'm going to do it [TS]

  daring fireball has a style guide this [TS]

  is what it is I get to pick it you know [TS]

  there you go [TS]

  and the apostrophe s just seems uniform [TS]

  to me because like when I see s ' I'm [TS]

  like is there more than one of them and [TS]

  you're saying so all of them is esta the [TS]

  plural possessive but you know you can't [TS]

  have like your own individual style [TS]

  sweet publication has their own style [TS]

  but there are some well-known style can [TS]

  you name some style guides you named one [TS]

  a red Chicago man your style is the main [TS]

  one that I I will file and there's was [TS]

  it straight get Strunk and white but of [TS]

  course [TS]

  oh of course it Chicago Manual of style [TS]

  is the one that I followed back when I [TS]

  was in college [TS]

  eons ago in our technical writing group [TS]

  our school as a team for the old school [TS]

  that's what we followed my mother is an [TS]

  English professor at college and has [TS]

  been for most of them if not all of my [TS]

  life [TS]

  and that's what she follows so you know [TS]

  you just you get a constant to something [TS]

  and you stick with it the whole the [TS]

  whole you know quotes with the [TS]

  punctuation inside that's one of those [TS]

  things that I love the idea of putting [TS]

  the punctuation outside of the quote but [TS]

  it feels so wrong to me it's it just I [TS]

  like it better but it just feels totally [TS]

  like I'm like I know I'm breaking my [TS]

  mom's hard if I do that so I don't do it [TS]

  yeah I feel the same way I [TS]

  I strongly prefer having it outside from [TS]

  a programs perspective but [TS]

  have made myself not do it that way to [TS]

  the point now where it looks just weird [TS]

  to me for it to be outside yeah I want [TS]

  it like I want it there I want to do it [TS]

  I know that you know yeah it's a family [TS]

  thing and it just looks weird like it [TS]

  I'm so used to it the other way from [TS]

  reading it so much the other way I hear [TS]

  something bugs man I know you're making [TS]

  a point let me just throw this into the [TS]

  mix okay I'm just gonna throw this out [TS]

  there cuz I won't get your take on this [TS]

  I know you're working towards something [TS]

  I don't want to interact it makes people [TS]

  very sad ah what do you think about the [TS]

  American versus British pluralization of [TS]

  things like companies like for example [TS]

  in the u.s. we would say Apple has just [TS]

  released a brand new iPad in the UK at [TS]

  least written at least written they [TS]

  would they would write may they say this [TS]

  - I don't know Apple have just released [TS]

  a brand new iPad yes I'm very aware of [TS]

  this distinction having written about [TS]

  companies a lot in my writing career I [TS]

  would I would like to hear your comment [TS]

  on that the thing about it that is in [TS]

  certain phrasings it's natural you find [TS]

  yourself wanting to refer to the [TS]

  companies as plural but in other [TS]

  phrasings that sounds awkward to us so [TS]

  the one you just gave - sounds crazy - [TS]

  Americans like Apple have like that's [TS]

  like that's wrong right but if you if [TS]

  you've ever like edited anyone else [TS]

  talking about Apple right you'll see [TS]

  that people it in America will [TS]

  constantly refer to Apple as plural in [TS]

  certain constructs and not even realize [TS]

  they're doing it so I try very hard to [TS]

  always catch myself when I do that and [TS]

  make sure that I'm really talking about [TS]

  Apple and singular and if it sounds [TS]

  awkward you just you know you're you [TS]

  rephrase that's like you said with the [TS]

  possessive don't kill yourself like if [TS]

  it's not working here it seems awkward [TS]

  to you just just rearrange it phrase it [TS]

  differently do these two sentences [TS]

  whatever so I I do like the singular I [TS]

  recognize that British use the plural it [TS]

  really it's kind of arbitrary and you [TS]

  just go with what it that's another case [TS]

  where I think it's pretty clear-cut [TS]

  where every American publication and [TS]

  style guide says this is the American [TS]

  Way and the British it's like color and [TS]

  color with the O you and not the O you [TS]

  is there's some clear divisions between [TS]

  British and American so what I was [TS]

  getting at would be with the this [TS]

  possibly s thing is one people are just [TS]

  they're just crazy about a huge amount [TS]

  of feedback very sure of them [TS]

  and it kind of amazes me that people who [TS]

  are so sure of themselves like they [TS]

  don't feel I need to support it like [TS]

  it's just they don't say it's because of [TS]

  how I was taught or I work for [TS]

  publication X and publication X uses the [TS]

  style guide but like it's just kind of [TS]

  like a universal blanket statement I [TS]

  think a lot of people get into that I [TS]

  don't know I don't want to speculate why [TS]

  they get into that but I imagine it's [TS]

  because they're taught a certain thing [TS]

  by teacher who is very enthusiastic [TS]

  about being a certain way and they [TS]

  respect that teacher and learn a lot [TS]

  from them and they become sort of a [TS]

  disciple of whatever that teacher said [TS]

  and then like the support for doesn't [TS]

  make that much of a difference and again [TS]

  getting back to that you know stakes are [TS]

  so low thing the people would just get [TS]

  worked up about the stuff because the [TS]

  you know it's a trivial issue and you [TS]

  know I obviously from the show called [TS]

  hypercritical I'm on board with that [TS]

  because I do that about lots of things [TS]

  so style guys Chicago Manual Strunk and [TS]

  white in England apparently this thing [TS]

  called Fowler's modern English used to [TS]

  did some googling for style guides does [TS]

  the AP style manual then is like more [TS]

  esoteric ones like the American Medical [TS]

  Association has a style guide for their [TS]

  papers and you know getting getting on [TS]

  down to individual companies can have [TS]

  style guides uh [TS]

  so I did a little survey of like the [TS]

  general purpose style guides and the [TS]

  Chicago Manual style Strunk and whites [TS]

  elements of style and Fowler's modern [TS]

  English usage all say add apostrophe s [TS]

  to the end of jobs yeah and the AP [TS]

  Manual style says no apostrophe s and [TS]

  there was a big Wikipedia thread but [TS]

  technically I should be adding it if I'm [TS]

  if I'm Welles I'm a fan of shrunken [TS]

  one-star uh not sprung well Strunk and [TS]

  white has always been like that Chicago [TS]

  Manual flip-flopped on it recently and [TS]

  like in the most recent edition of [TS]

  Chicago Manual I think they used to say [TS]

  you could do it both ways or used to say [TS]

  you should just put the apostrophe where [TS]

  they change their mind so maybe when you [TS]

  learned it it was actually the other way [TS]

  with the Chicago Manual but now they say [TS]

  apostrophe s uh and the AP manual like I [TS]

  saw this in the Wikipedia thread they [TS]

  were it was a Wikipedia thread [TS]

  discussing what should be the Wikipedia [TS]

  style guide or is it even possible to [TS]

  have a Wikipedia style guide because so [TS]

  many people contribute and stuff and [TS]

  this is big debate and people citing two [TS]

  different style guides is saying well [TS]

  these people say this and these people [TS]

  say that so on and so forth and one of [TS]

  the people [TS]

  speculated that I don't know if it's [TS]

  speculation but I can't I couldn't cite [TS]

  it you know KP style guide always [TS]

  prefers the shorter version because it's [TS]

  a really old style guide back from the [TS]

  days when you had like a wire [TS]

  communication other things that like [TS]

  charge by the letter or whatever and so [TS]

  a lot of The Associated Press thing and [TS]

  you know you had column space and you [TS]

  didn't want to have long lines and you [TS]

  wanted to fit your content in so if [TS]

  there was ever a choice between one [TS]

  style that use fewer characters than the [TS]

  other of course pick the shorter one [TS]

  which is kind of a different motivation [TS]

  but the same thing as you were saying [TS]

  where it's like a a minimalism type of [TS]

  thing omit needless words don't don't [TS]

  make things big widen flowery and if [TS]

  there's a shorter way to do it use a [TS]

  shorter way but my personal I feel I [TS]

  feel vindicated in my personal [TS]

  preference that the Chicago Manual [TS]

  Strunk and white and even the British [TS]

  Valerie's modern English usage shawl [TS]

  which are like the some of the top like [TS]

  general-purpose style guides all agree [TS]

  that you should add apostrophe s and [TS]

  some of them have exceptions for like [TS]

  Jesus and Moses which was the things I [TS]

  brought up before and sure yeah I'm [TS]

  after I'm after switch and you're [TS]

  there's a compelling argument the first [TS]

  but first time it really is an arbitrary [TS]

  though like it's you all you need to do [TS]

  is to decide what style guide you're [TS]

  writing to and stick to it and you want [TS]

  to make up your own style god it's a [TS]

  blend of these just you know document in [TS]

  its the consistency is more important [TS]

  than the individual thing but I will say [TS]

  to all the people who are just so sure [TS]

  that whichever way they said is [TS]

  absolutely right both the people who [TS]

  agreed with me and who didn't agree with [TS]

  me that anytime you're doing that with [TS]

  even with things do you think are open [TS]

  and shut grammar cases be you know look [TS]

  it up see why why is this why do I think [TS]

  this is it just because what I was [TS]

  taught what how long ago is I taught [TS]

  that where was my teacher getting that [TS]

  information you know what I mean uh so [TS]

  you're saying you're saying you're okay [TS]

  however people want to do it as long as [TS]

  they understand that they have made a [TS]

  decision and it is not a issue of being [TS]

  correct or incorrect that is simply a [TS]

  preference and style preference for them [TS]

  but see I hate the word style Dobies [TS]

  when I think of style I think of it as [TS]

  like not using passive voice or a [TS]

  passive voice is grammatically correct [TS]

  but it's a style issue if you don't want [TS]

  to use it like I don't want to sound [TS]

  that way because it's it's not it [TS]

  doesn't change the content but it [TS]

  changes like the feeling of it you know [TS]

  I mean sure versus stuff like where does [TS]

  the punctuation go in [TS]

  which I guess I mean that all falls [TS]

  under a style guy but when I think of [TS]

  style I think more of like the you know [TS]

  two equally valid things which one reads [TS]

  better versus like a style God's going [TS]

  to say punctuation goes inside and you [TS]

  don't you don't get to pick that based [TS]

  on what like how you want them to read [TS]

  this and what kind of message you want [TS]

  to send it's just like this is the rule [TS]

  right but they're all they're all [TS]

  encompassing a star guide so it's an [TS]

  overloaded word with style but I very [TS]

  strongly prefer the the apostrophe s and [TS]

  I don't like it when people use toggles [TS]

  don't do it for example Ars Technica [TS]

  takes a lot of stuff from the AP style [TS]

  guide much of which i despise and every [TS]

  time it comes up like i can argue with [TS]

  them for they say look this is this is [TS]

  the our style guide so i don't care how [TS]

  you write it or what you do it's going [TS]

  to conform to the our style guide this [TS]

  is more important for all the stuff on [TS]

  ours to be uniform than it is for them [TS]

  to but I will still argue with them that [TS]

  yeah well that bit that decision you've [TS]

  made and choosing the our style guide is [TS]

  dumb and it should be the other way [TS]

  because I have very strong preferences [TS]

  on this issue but I totally recognize [TS]

  that even the style guides can't agree [TS]

  on it and the end of hours the old [TS]

  majority rules like most of the style [TS]

  guides I found on you you know you just [TS]

  keep stacking up style guides on either [TS]

  side until you feel satisfied that one [TS]

  party is won or not you know and you [TS]

  could also come back and say hey you [TS]

  know why why is the style guide that [TS]

  came out last year better than the one [TS]

  that came out this year and ya know it's [TS]

  yeah what you know do you use the most [TS]

  up they will never uh maybe there's [TS]

  reason not to I guarantee you know some [TS]

  people like an older style for some [TS]

  reason well I well we what we were [TS]

  talking about this the one of the the [TS]

  fans Scott Williams uh who's obviously [TS]

  got the asset and he said he prefers the [TS]

  apostrophe s you know I'm gonna go out [TS]

  on a limb and say I bet most of the [TS]

  people uh who's you know who are [TS]

  unfortunate enough to have a name that [TS]

  ends with an S and have to deal with [TS]

  this problem there I bet you all of them [TS]

  add the apostrophe s we don't need to [TS]

  hear about it I'm but I'm sure I'm [TS]

  speaking for them I don't know I bet but [TS]

  you you should what you should take from [TS]

  this is a you know I know I'm an English [TS]

  major eh that's appeal to authority and [TS]

  doesn't add anything to your argument B [TS]

  see how polite I am NOT the correct him [TS]

  on the show correctly that's the whole [TS]

  point [TS]

  yeah I'd like that you know your your [TS]

  show tersh I know but you're you're part [TS]

  of it too you should participate as [TS]

  I participate I'd like to you know I [TS]

  don't your it's all about your theory [TS]

  I'm not gonna stomp on your alright and [TS]

  and part see uh don't be so sure that [TS]

  you know you have a sod correction to [TS]

  make because in this case as you said [TS]

  you know you thought it should always be [TS]

  as a pot cores now now I've shaken I've [TS]

  shaken your faith in the S ' I said I [TS]

  said I might consider switching but I [TS]

  still believe that the D the correct way [TS]

  to do it would be the the way that [TS]

  involves the least typing huh why why [TS]

  add characters if you can convey the [TS]

  same meaning with fewer characters [TS]

  alright so getting get to another [TS]

  trivial thing I had this in the last [TS]

  show didn't didn't get to it [TS]

  the great 5x5 Illustrated site yes that [TS]

  there was an illustration for episode [TS]

  number 45 what was the name of that [TS]

  episode it was Star Wars is not a blog [TS]

  post yes and the illustration for that [TS]

  shows a hand-drawn picture of a web [TS]

  browser looks like Safari and it in the [TS]

  web browser is my tumblr brah blog which [TS]

  I very rarely uh played oh I do have a [TS]

  post that I want to put up there at some [TS]

  point it's like my personal non-apple [TS]

  related blog thing right it's called [TS]

  hyper critical that blog actually [TS]

  existed before the show and it's on one [TS]

  of the other incarnations of this name [TS]

  and the the the URL is Syracuse a tumblr [TS]

  calm slash search slash Star Plus Wars [TS]

  plus for the space and the thing the [TS]

  text on the page says terribly sorry a [TS]

  total of zero results for Star Wars and [TS]

  results is written result and then the s [TS]

  and apostrophe in that posture abs in [TS]

  parentheses so it's re su LT open parens [TS]

  s closed parens right and I looked at [TS]

  that and I said oh you know I hate it [TS]

  when when things do that I bet that's [TS]

  not how the real site looks I went to [TS]

  tumblr and did a search for Star Wars [TS]

  and sure enough like that's brick you [TS]

  know when you do a search for Star Wars [TS]

  that is the actual URL slash search [TS]

  slash you know Star Plus Wars and the [TS]

  text on the page says exactly that [TS]

  terribly sorry a total of zero results [TS]

  in parentheses right for Star Wars this [TS]

  drives me nuts as a programmer because [TS]

  as anyone has ever done any web program [TS]

  you come across this exact situation all [TS]

  the time where the [TS]

  going to be so a number of things and [TS]

  you're going to stick the number in a [TS]

  sentence that in English you have to [TS]

  figure out whether that's number number [TS]

  is plural or not and the super lazy [TS]

  programmer way is like well I just want [TS]

  to have one word so I'm going to result [TS]

  then I'll put the s in parenthesis and [TS]

  it shows that it's kind of optional [TS]

  because it's my pseudo programmer [TS]

  application of you know it takes like [TS]

  you know the Turner operator is not it's [TS]

  not going to take all day to just do one [TS]

  little thing in there and say if you [TS]

  know if it's one don't put the S [TS]

  otherwise put the s right and yes [TS]

  localization makes this harder but you [TS]

  can have to deal with much harder issues [TS]

  in localization you know anyway tough [TS]

  luck but especially if it's like English [TS]

  only you know don't do that programmers [TS]

  out there take the three seconds to put [TS]

  a little conditional in there to write [TS]

  the correct word it's just that shows [TS]

  like I don't always like that pick on [TS]

  things that show a lack of attention to [TS]

  detail the person who program this [TS]

  didn't care about you know because it's [TS]

  not rocket science it's not like they're [TS]

  saying I wish I knew how to figure out [TS]

  whether this was plural or not people [TS]

  know how to do it right they just didn't [TS]

  want to it's just easier for them to [TS]

  just put the string with the number [TS]

  right in it so I would like to to [TS]

  publicly shame all programmers who do [TS]

  this and if you find yourself in the [TS]

  situation think of my voice in your head [TS]

  saying take the two seconds make a macro [TS]

  throw that Turner upper in there or you [TS]

  know if you're using localization it [TS]

  should really handle this for you you [TS]

  should be able to put a number and then [TS]

  the the thing and have it have you have [TS]

  your localization system whatever that [TS]

  may be figure out the correct way to [TS]

  phrase all right so moving on to the [TS]

  next topic which is the thing with [TS]

  vicious and bitter a feedback with very [TS]

  low stakes let's let's do our first spot [TS]

  there that's a good idea we get it you [TS]

  need to take a break to you know rest [TS]

  anyway we'll do the fun one first not [TS]

  that the second sponsor isn't fun also [TS]

  but it's uncle slam from hand labra [TS]

  so these guys they've sponsored before [TS]

  they have this reminder game minder [TS]

  thing that the Jon Circus is such a fan [TS]

  oven this time they said listen Dan and [TS]

  you know it's a holiday season we [TS]

  realized [TS]

  a lot of the shows that you do aren't [TS]

  necessarily gaming oriented you do talk [TS]

  about gaming on the show with with John [TS]

  siracusa so for sure mention it on that [TS]

  one it's alright what is this you're [TS]

  talking about this is listen this is [TS]

  uncle slam this is a new boxing game it [TS]

  just launched you basically you play as [TS]

  the presidents of the United States not [TS]

  the band but the the men and it [TS]

  basically it's a boxing game and you [TS]

  punch presidents now the single local [TS]

  multiplayer mode so you can play on your [TS]

  own you play with a friend and it used [TS]

  physics-based punching and real touch [TS]

  based jet real controls it's not the [TS]

  little virtual controller on the screen [TS]

  kind of thing and they believe very [TS]

  strongly that you should meld usefulness [TS]

  and fun so that all the locations in the [TS]

  game they're based on real places in [TS]

  America so you can actually learn about [TS]

  presidential history in the Hall of [TS]

  Presidents so the game launched about a [TS]

  week ago it has nine playable presidents [TS]

  for iPad in the coming months they're [TS]

  going to be adding more presidents you [TS]

  can buy them with in-app purchases [TS]

  they're going to have a universal [TS]

  version will play everywhere else so [TS]

  even even John circus will be able to [TS]

  play it on his iPod touch so how do you [TS]

  find out about this you go follow the [TS]

  link that's in the show notes or you go [TS]

  to iTunes and do a search for uncle slam [TS]

  and you will find it so thanks very much [TS]

  to handle Habra but lucky they don't get [TS]

  caught up in that no political the [TS]

  application policy thing I guess since [TS]

  this is a game it is it is a game that's [TS]

  true it is a game so this doesn't defame [TS]

  the presidents I don't yeah I don't [TS]

  think that they are different is [TS]

  punching a president defaming them I [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  Apple is a capricious beast mm-hmm I [TS]

  don't know bite while you can [TS]

  yeah different really I just got that up [TS]

  I'm aim did you get that oh no that's [TS]

  great though how do you get the games [TS]

  for it I haven't gotten that far yet but [TS]

  like someone posted up I'm aim is up [TS]

  grab all you can on looking at okay I'll [TS]

  put this I'll put this initial I this is [TS]

  the one by Jim Van Deventer I assume so [TS]

  how many other apps could there be cold [TS]

  I mean does it have a big red joystick [TS]

  in for gettin so guess [TS]

  I will put this in the show notes by the [TS]

  way our show notes are brought to you by [TS]

  the amazing people over it help help [TS]

  spot.com best help this self wherever [TS]

  yeah so I haven't got to the point where [TS]

  I start adding roms and stuff but how do [TS]

  you add proms I'm sure there's some way [TS]

  to like it maybe add just like you had a [TS]

  like a PDF to you know a 3/3 PDF yeah [TS]

  it's free I'm sure it will be yanked by [TS]

  Apple soon so grab all you can I got the [TS]

  NES emulator back when that was on the [TS]

  store for like 15 minutes before [TS]

  athleanx this has been up for days [TS]

  though so maybe they're not going to [TS]

  yank it it doesn't come with any ROM [TS]

  side we see so I don't maybe maybe it is [TS]

  a case where they're they're going to [TS]

  allow it although it seems like [TS]

  something that's an emulator anyway [TS]

  grabbed by MAME if you can so the other [TS]

  topic that had low stakes but lots of [TS]

  feedback was talking about john Gruber's [TS]

  appearance on the verge and talking [TS]

  about bias in tech journalism and his [TS]

  possible bias in particular and [TS]

  partisanship and all that business which [TS]

  was the kind of the bulk of the last [TS]

  show a lot of feedback on that some some [TS]

  people had an axe to grind but most of [TS]

  the feedback was really good where it [TS]

  was like people people they're the [TS]

  listeners of the show good about [TS]

  responding to what was actually [TS]

  discussed in the show and not going off [TS]

  on their own independent rant about [TS]

  tangentially related to the topic right [TS]

  so here are a few examples a lot of [TS]

  people brought up good points that I [TS]

  wish I had addressed on on last show and [TS]

  I will try to address in that Steve Barr [TS]

  writes I'm just reading like snippets of [TS]

  these people's things so they wrote lots [TS]

  of stuff I'm trying to get to like the [TS]

  one point that I think is most important [TS]

  so Steve Barr says one can't read airing [TS]

  fireball alone to get an accurate view [TS]

  accurate view of the consumer smartphone [TS]

  slash desktop market and I think that's [TS]

  true that's something I wish I had [TS]

  talked about in my show when people if [TS]

  people want to read something and feel [TS]

  like they're getting just like they're [TS]

  getting all sides of the issue reading a [TS]

  blog written by a single person with a [TS]

  single voice is not going to give you [TS]

  that because it you know at its best I [TS]

  think this was in from Gruber and [TS]

  Merlin's talk at South by Southwest [TS]

  years ago or I don't even know if they [TS]

  originated but a blogging is like [TS]

  passion plus voice and so Derek fireball [TS]

  has a person quest passion he speaks [TS]

  with one voice if he tried to give you [TS]

  all sides of the issue it would it would [TS]

  not be the same experience not that [TS]

  would be worse or better or anything but [TS]

  it would not be the same and that gets [TS]

  to the j-word we're gonna like all your [TS]

  are you a journalist here you're not [TS]

  being a journalist or journalists need [TS]

  to be objective and journalist should be [TS]

  partisan [TS]

  I've always been repelled by the j-word [TS]

  I didn't go to journalism school I don't [TS]

  feel qualified to call myself a [TS]

  journalist nor do I want to be a [TS]

  journalist because when I think of [TS]

  journalists I think of someone who maybe [TS]

  this is another reason I don't use the [TS]

  word is maybe my definition is totally [TS]

  wrong but when I think of it I think of [TS]

  somebody who is trying to give all sides [TS]

  of the story and find find out as much [TS]

  as possible about something and yes do [TS]

  all the fact-checking and stuff you want [TS]

  to do but they're they're not inserting [TS]

  their own voice their voice is not the [TS]

  primary thing they're they're not like [TS]

  is it different being an opinion column [TS]

  in the news page and that's when I think [TS]

  of journalism that's what I think of now [TS]

  you can have an example like a big site [TS]

  like The Verge or I don't even ours [TS]

  tactic or anything like that where in [TS]

  aggregate the site together tries to [TS]

  give a big view of the world like for [TS]

  example our stock maker has people [TS]

  writing about this exclusively writing [TS]

  about windows and writing about you know [TS]

  Android and writing about open-source [TS]

  and Apple you know so an individual [TS]

  person writing for the Apple section can [TS]

  be focusing on Apple and not talking [TS]

  about other things but the individual [TS]

  person writing for the Microsoft section [TS]

  is focusing on Microsoft and so as a [TS]

  whole the publication is you know is it [TS]

  as a journalistic endeavor right and [TS]

  they try to distinctions between simple [TS]

  straight news reporting and you know [TS]

  opinion and editorials [TS]

  and there's always a problem of like [TS]

  well where do you draw that line and how [TS]

  do you how do you make it clear to the [TS]

  reader is this an editorial or not and [TS]

  people get confused they get angry about [TS]

  it but that's that's different than a [TS]

  blog with even if maybe two people but [TS]

  one or two people but certainly [TS]

  something with just one person with one [TS]

  voice that's you know the blogging that [TS]

  the daring fireball wants to be and that [TS]

  a lot of people do is it's one person [TS]

  speaking with a singular voice and that [TS]

  necessarily will not give you that you [TS]

  know all sides of an issue right even [TS]

  even if he tries to do all the research [TS]

  and present all the information he's [TS]

  necessarily [TS]

  going to have one view and I think it [TS]

  would make the site less interesting and [TS]

  certainly less entertaining were key to [TS]

  edit himself to try to say even though I [TS]

  strongly feel this way about this thing [TS]

  I don't want to you know I don't want to [TS]

  put too much in my opinion that's not [TS]

  what it's about it's entirely about his [TS]

  opinion this is you know this is daring [TS]

  fireball this is John Gruber this is not [TS]

  a paper and I don't know if he considers [TS]

  himself a journalist but all and all my [TS]

  writing even though I write these big [TS]

  reviews Mac os10 and stuff I don't [TS]

  consider that a journalistic endeavor I [TS]

  consider everything I write to be like [TS]

  an editorial or an opinion column a [TS]

  supported opinion and maybe an informed [TS]

  formed opinion I will defend my opinion [TS]

  with facts but it's nevertheless it's me [TS]

  I haven't I'm not ever writing anything [TS]

  to say this is what Ars Technica thinks [TS]

  of Mac os10 no it's this is what I think [TS]

  of that ghost and if someone else who [TS]

  writes for our stock now wants to say [TS]

  something else about Mac OS then they [TS]

  can feel free you know what I mean so [TS]

  that was a Steve Barr David Cheney [TS]

  longtime listener and contributor was [TS]

  fretting over partisanship and other [TS]

  issues we talked a little bit about the [TS]

  Senate in the chat room then he wrote [TS]

  some emails one of the things he brought [TS]

  up was when Apple is an underdog and [TS]

  mainstream opinion of the company was [TS]

  low I think was appropriate for him [TS]

  meaning John Gruber to skewer trollish [TS]

  pieces of the kind that John C Dvorak [TS]

  peddled less those opinions become [TS]

  accepted wisdom now that Apple has [TS]

  become so big such articles are just [TS]

  like little gnats buzzing around trying [TS]

  to get attention there's enough general [TS]

  awareness of Apple's good qualities they [TS]

  really don't deserve the time of day and [TS]

  they aren't going to have any effect [TS]

  than I think so [TS]

  this is a good point of like the [TS]

  environment in which daring firewall was [TS]

  born versus the environment now when [TS]

  Apple is the underdog people seem more [TS]

  accepting of vociferous defense of the [TS]

  little guy but now that they are so much [TS]

  bigger and so much more successful who [TS]

  wouldn't say well it's not you know the [TS]

  same thing you did back then doesn't [TS]

  seem appropriate now you know why chase [TS]

  down those people who are saying silly [TS]

  bogus things about Apple why not just [TS]

  ignore them because you know get you [TS]

  know you know I mean and I feel that [TS]

  some play sometimes to like the Mac [TS]

  elope and John Gruber both enjoy finding [TS]

  people who say things about [TS]

  Appl that are just clearly at odds with [TS]

  with reality or with the opinion of the [TS]

  people writing and they just love [TS]

  skewering them and and showing how wrong [TS]

  they are and this is a really popular [TS]

  thing to do back when the Mac was just [TS]

  on the ropes you know late 90s Apple was [TS]

  on the ropes people were not using [TS]

  maxford constantly making fun of Apple [TS]

  and so those of us who were still fans [TS]

  of the computer just felt the need to [TS]

  just SWAT down all these attacks and [TS]

  that habit can be hard to get out of and [TS]

  it ended still is entertaining to a lot [TS]

  of people including probably the people [TS]

  doing it I mean you know the Mac elope [TS]

  is a fairly recent creation of the only [TS]

  a couple years old or whatever oh who is [TS]

  that say you right between that nobody [TS]

  knows with Mac well bit except for the [TS]

  bit except for the people who know I [TS]

  have no comment under the Mac Lopez so [TS]

  you know I have no comment until the [TS]

  mangu of this but you do know if I have [TS]

  no comment [TS]

  we'll talk out of that off there so [TS]

  people obviously like that kind of thing [TS]

  but it does seem like less sporting [TS]

  people who are willing to entertain that [TS]

  type of stuff it becomes distasteful to [TS]

  them when the situation has changed [TS]

  Bobby Seale is still big audience for uh [TS]

  and and there is there is still there's [TS]

  still work to be done there visit for [TS]

  example despite Apple's great success [TS]

  you still constantly see the prediction [TS]

  that Android will be the windows 2 to [TS]

  iOS right just as Windows was the [TS]

  creditor product but was you know spread [TS]

  out farther and had bigger market share [TS]

  and Android will have bigger market [TS]

  share and even though iOS is technically [TS]

  better uh it will still get pushed down [TS]

  to some little niche by Android and you [TS]

  see that sentiment like as if it's a [TS]

  foregone conclusion everywhere so even [TS]

  though Apple is still you know much [TS]

  bigger than it used to be and much more [TS]

  successful I think it's fair I think I [TS]

  think it's still just you know [TS]

  completely fair to [TS]

  attack the people making that prediction [TS]

  with the facts and say look it's the [TS]

  situation is different this time I [TS]

  myself over in an arc like this and it's [TS]

  not it's not the same I know we all want [TS]

  to think that the history tell history [TS]

  tells us exactly how you know the future [TS]

  is going to go but the situations are [TS]

  different in some important ways and so [TS]

  if people you know people write those [TS]

  articles about Android inevitably [TS]

  winning because of X Y & Z you know I [TS]

  think the other side of that issue is [TS]

  also worth airing and obviously Grouper [TS]

  has one opinion on this and he's going [TS]

  to write about he's not going to write [TS]

  about something that he doesn't believe [TS]

  in he's going to write what he believes [TS]

  and supported with his many faxes again [TS]

  this is from frank chai cheery he gave [TS]

  me a pronunciation he said chai like tea [TS]

  and then the word cheery love it good [TS]

  job Frank and he was talking about [TS]

  partisanship and some of his experiences [TS]

  of this and he says that Charlie Peter [TS]

  is the legendary editor of Washington [TS]

  Monthly used to tell his writers play [TS]

  Notre Dame in their articles what he [TS]

  meant was that you should always take [TS]

  your opponent's best arguments don't [TS]

  play a half-baked Tech College play [TS]

  Notre Dame take on the big boys he'll be [TS]

  a stronger writer writer for it I think [TS]

  this is great advice to anybody you know [TS]

  money's basically saying is if you're [TS]

  going to be if you're going to support [TS]

  your position to have it to have the [TS]

  most convincing to be the most [TS]

  convincing with your with your position [TS]

  obviously they don't do straw man which [TS]

  is vision that nobody is taking and [TS]

  knock them down but also like find out [TS]

  the strongest arguments from the other [TS]

  side and take those on to show that you [TS]

  are acknowledging and have an answer for [TS]

  the very strongest arguments of your [TS]

  opposition this goes back to you know [TS]

  what I'm saying about the advantages of [TS]

  listening to partisans right who-who are [TS]

  starting from particular premise and it [TS]

  can never be shaken from it but you know [TS]

  and I don't think that's a great thing [TS]

  to be but they will seek out the best [TS]

  arguments for their position and so [TS]

  those are the ones that you should take [TS]

  on because presumably they're they're [TS]

  spending all their time trying to find [TS]

  that anything and everything they can [TS]

  the strongest possible arguments for [TS]

  their position from which they're never [TS]

  going to waver and so the the played [TS]

  Notre Dame thing is good a good thing to [TS]

  keep in mind and also a lots of people [TS]

  have different definitions of partisan I [TS]

  do I tried to preface the the plas [TS]

  section about partisans by read the [TS]

  dictionary definitions none of which [TS]

  exactly agree with mine [TS]

  it's just getting into semantics like we [TS]

  all as long as we can all agree on what [TS]

  we're talking about I was saying it's [TS]

  the person who will who no fact will [TS]

  change their opinion they have their [TS]

  premise and they are never going to [TS]

  reevaluate that premise based on the [TS]

  changing facts no matter how they change [TS]

  they'll until the day they die they will [TS]

  always be a supporter of X and that's [TS]

  the type of partisan I said I didn't [TS]

  like that that's that's my idea of [TS]

  partisanship other people saying [TS]

  partisan is just what I was saying about [TS]

  having passion horse now from the Gruber [TS]

  Merlin Mann thing that I don't consider [TS]

  parson shit but that's just semantics [TS]

  it's just you know what word do we use [TS]

  to label the bad thing and the good [TS]

  thing so I don't think there's any [TS]

  barrier to us to people discussing this [TS]

  issue as long as we all know what we're [TS]

  talking about when we say a particular [TS]

  word so maybe an individual word is not [TS]

  I don't like the fanboy label I like [TS]

  partisan but obviously partisan people [TS]

  have different definitions they use for [TS]

  that do so if you're arguing with [TS]

  somebody about this material agreeing on [TS]

  your definitions otherwise you'll just [TS]

  go in circles and it will not get [TS]

  anywhere and I bring that up because [TS]

  Frank uses the term hack to [TS]

  differentiate between the honest [TS]

  partisan and you know a dishonest one [TS]

  one extra point in here is like the idea [TS]

  that you are seeking out the best [TS]

  arguments against and taking them on you [TS]

  got to be careful with that because if [TS]

  you're if you're not careful you'll [TS]

  start to that concept starts to include [TS]

  the premise that you have a side right [TS]

  so I want it I want to find the best [TS]

  arguments against and if you just if [TS]

  you're constantly concentrating on that [TS]

  you're never thinking about whether the [TS]

  thing you're trying to defend is still [TS]

  the case you know what I mean like just [TS]

  you have to reevaluate if you get too [TS]

  caught up and now I got to play Notre [TS]

  Dame I got then then you give you end up [TS]

  becoming that bad kind of partisan who's [TS]

  spending all their time trying to shore [TS]

  up their position without ever reading [TS]

  their position to say look is this is [TS]

  this really still correct regardless of [TS]

  how well I think I can defend it is this [TS]

  really still correct and I think that's [TS]

  the end of the Gruber section it's kind [TS]

  of weird that I end up having two shows [TS]

  before he gets to have a single show I [TS]

  don't know if I'll even talk about these [TS]

  topics but uh it you know since the [TS]

  schedule flips around he's actually [TS]

  recording after this yeah this usually [TS]

  he would we [TS]

  have recorded on the Wednesday yeah but [TS]

  no not not this week because he's uh [TS]

  wherever he is on you know great some [TS]

  random vacation Vegas again Vegas tuna [TS]

  tell from the typos would he put it he [TS]

  wrote Marcos and he wrote ma RC capital [TS]

  I apostrophe s o but he did add the [TS]

  apostrophe yes well it doesn't end in a [TS]

  nest but things like you were talking [TS]

  about Merlin but how you can tell when [TS]

  Gruber in the Vegas it's yeah because of [TS]

  the via the typos and what was the other [TS]

  thing [TS]

  there are usually typos most of the [TS]

  sites if there's a mobile version of the [TS]

  site it will he will link to the mobile [TS]

  version of the site instead of the [TS]

  regular because he's doing everything on [TS]

  his iPhone has he done that recently I [TS]

  haven't seen that it's been less ever [TS]

  since I called him out on it and maybe [TS]

  coincidentally that was around the time [TS]

  that he stopped doing it in such an [TS]

  obvious way alright so moving on to some [TS]

  other follow-up Jim mirtha writes in [TS]

  about our discussion of Twitter if it's [TS]

  unified timeline notice yeah I like that [TS]

  because I want to see my replies in [TS]

  chronological order with the rest of the [TS]

  things and I thought that that would be [TS]

  something that more people would like [TS]

  because I thought the only people who [TS]

  would like reply separate would be the [TS]

  people have so many replies because they [TS]

  have so many followers that it would [TS]

  just drown out their timeline and they'd [TS]

  spend all the time scrolling past a [TS]

  million people replying to them and I'd [TS]

  you know I said well they have to be the [TS]

  minority right well so Jim has a good [TS]

  theory on why people might still want [TS]

  the reply as separate uh and it's back [TS]

  to like we don't really know we know how [TS]

  we use Twitter but I think uh in terms [TS]

  of like how many people you follow and [TS]

  we followers you have we are outliers [TS]

  probably because we have so many [TS]

  followers relative to other people sure [TS]

  and I think probably we follow fewer [TS]

  people because we both do use it you [TS]

  know like how many people do you follow [TS]

  it's not thousands all right no um [TS]

  what's the easiest way for me to tell [TS]

  you that I'm following I am following a [TS]

  whopping 190 people which I can't [TS]

  believe I'm following that many but I [TS]

  think that most of those people tweet [TS]

  once a month you know yeah I've tried to [TS]

  keep it under triple digits for a long [TS]

  time but I finally broke and the reason [TS]

  I broke was because a lot of the [TS]

  accounts I follow have like one tweet [TS]

  every three months right so Joe it's [TS]

  okay when that happened so I follow 132 [TS]

  and I can read them I think so but but [TS]

  what are you saying is that [TS]

  he says I follow many people on Twitter [TS]

  only a few of whom I know personally and [TS]

  since I'm not a celebrity Internet or [TS]

  otherwise my followers consist almost [TS]

  exclusively of the very small number of [TS]

  users who I know personally I think this [TS]

  is probably typical of many Twitter [TS]

  users fewer followers generally means [TS]

  fewer mentions and replies the unified [TS]

  timeline map useful people like me but [TS]

  if you aren't getting replies and [TS]

  mentions fairly regularly it's probably [TS]

  not a feature to weigh heavily in your [TS]

  decision of which client to use so it's [TS]

  basically saying most people don't get a [TS]

  lot at replies because they're they're [TS]

  consuming I like following celebrities [TS]

  and like one or two people who also [TS]

  don't use a Twitter heavily and I can [TS]

  imagine that might be a big chunk of [TS]

  Twitter users who you know I've seen [TS]

  some statistics of I don't know if [TS]

  people are just guessing over there with [TS]

  like of all the people who are on [TS]

  Twitter how many people actually post [TS]

  something like once a day or once a week [TS]

  over Terence it's just a huge number of [TS]

  people who are following an astronaut or [TS]

  whatever and they're not saying anything [TS]

  and so they're not going to get any app [TS]

  mentions because they're not they're not [TS]

  like purchased they're consuming rather [TS]

  than then producing content right and [TS]

  for those people whether or not it has [TS]

  unified timeline it's not going to be a [TS]

  factor in their decision they're going [TS]

  to pick a Twitter client based on [TS]

  something else so that would also [TS]

  explain why there's not this big outcry [TS]

  for unified timeline because as far as [TS]

  if you never get at replies unified 9 [TS]

  unifies all the same to them right down [TS]

  they don't care [TS]

  Apple TV talked a little bit about guy [TS]

  English's interesting taken what he [TS]

  thinks Apple TV might look like am on [TS]

  Kadeem rights in and a couple people [TS]

  wrote in with this theory wouldn't it be [TS]

  much simpler would it be more simple to [TS]

  integrate the computer / box into the [TS]

  screen and let that component be [TS]

  removable for optional yearly hardware [TS]

  upgrades this is a lot of people a lot [TS]

  of people have this theory a lot of [TS]

  people cited the duo doc you remember [TS]

  that yes the duo doc was something that [TS]

  you would uh you would take your I guess [TS]

  power book wasn't it [TS]

  power book duo and you would connect it [TS]

  to a little doc and there was a little [TS]

  thing that it would latch on to so that [TS]

  you could have all of this is back in [TS]

  the days way before bluetooth and even [TS]

  most wireless mice and keyboards and you [TS]

  would connect all your peripherals to it [TS]

  so it was simply just you drop the thing [TS]

  in the docket click the thing boom I [TS]

  never had one of these so I needed I [TS]

  didn't know people that did have them I [TS]

  thought it was quite quite handy it [TS]

  enveloped the computer was actually you [TS]

  would slide it in like that like a piece [TS]

  of bread going into a slot toaster and [TS]

  on the [TS]

  because the thing that you slid it into [TS]

  was like this big hunk and Connect [TS]

  proprietary connector that they would [TS]

  you know put all your ports out it was [TS]

  great because the do the PowerBook do it [TS]

  was really skinny it was there was the [TS]

  let the MacBook Air of its de recipe [TS]

  power power book 100 was the first [TS]

  MacBook Air of its day but the second [TS]

  MacBook Air of Apple's kept top era was [TS]

  the power book door really small really [TS]

  thin and it could be really thin because [TS]

  it didn't have to have any of the stuff [TS]

  that was on the docks of a floppy drive [TS]

  and all that other stuff and then so you [TS]

  get this really nice portable computer [TS]

  that you could use but when you got back [TS]

  to your desk you could slide that sucker [TS]

  in there and have your full-fledged Mac [TS]

  experience with your monitor and [TS]

  everything it was nice I know in [TS]

  academia a lot of a lot of people when I [TS]

  went to college a lot of the professor's [TS]

  had that because they loved that the [TS]

  ability to walk around with that laptop [TS]

  and then have the big setup when they [TS]

  went back and what I replied to a few of [TS]

  these people who I replied to and before [TS]

  I gave up replying to all the people who [TS]

  suggested this was that I really don't [TS]

  think that Apple is going to produce [TS]

  anything like the duo doc in the near [TS]

  future and there's a couple of reasons I [TS]

  think that one the the fact that they [TS]

  haven't done anything like that in a [TS]

  long time the closest thing I can think [TS]

  of that has all the disadvantages of the [TS]

  duo docker is like the iPod connector [TS]

  the dock connector and I've already [TS]

  complained about that but the main thing [TS]

  is like when it came time to do [TS]

  something like that with their modern [TS]

  products which is basically the MacBook [TS]

  Air they rather than doing a dock they [TS]

  they put it all over thunderbolt and a [TS]

  little power connector so they did the [TS]

  little y-you know the split cable that [TS]

  comes out of the back of a thunderbolt [TS]

  display right it has the power for your [TS]

  laptop and also a thunderbolt then [TS]

  proxies all the firewire and Ethernet [TS]

  and all but other stuff they could have [TS]

  just as easily made a doc to have that [TS]

  stuff but I it just seems like like [TS]

  those dock connectors are just big and [TS]

  ugly and proprietary and yes Apple has [TS]

  been known to make proprietary [TS]

  connectors in the past but it trend [TS]

  seems to be away from that they used to [TS]

  have bright airy connectors for [TS]

  everything or if not proprietary then at [TS]

  least obscure but like the new bus slot [TS]

  which it wasn't proprietary think Sun [TS]

  use new bus to but it might as well been [TS]

  provider because nobody else was using [TS]

  everyone else using yeah ISA and what [TS]

  was the IBM thing micro channel or [TS]

  whatever and you had a DB for the [TS]

  keyboards and all you know every [TS]

  connector was custom out of the apples [TS]

  printer ports even lots of things were [TS]

  physically compatible but not [TS]

  electrically compatible but the trend or [TS]

  with Apple has been to go away from [TS]

  those and go toward standard even even [TS]

  in you know the the jobs to error when [TS]

  they did the ADB port which carried [TS]

  display power for your display and USB [TS]

  and was firing on there too and remember [TS]

  that was what over one connector they [TS]

  moved away from that they went to DVI a [TS]

  lot of people were annoyed this is [TS]

  likely how they love the elegance of [TS]

  this this Apple display thing but Apple [TS]

  said no you know I know it's less [TS]

  elegant they have DVI and we have to do [TS]

  this double data rate DVI and all those [TS]

  stuff but we don't want to have a [TS]

  brighter connection anymore they went to [TS]

  USB instead of all their old stuff [TS]

  Thunderbolt is even though Apple seems [TS]

  to be ahead on it it's not apples Apple [TS]

  didn't make it up it's an Intel standard [TS]

  anybody can use it it's you know so I [TS]

  don't think they want another [TS]

  proprietary connector I've complained [TS]

  about the iPod document connector many [TS]

  times because its proprietary it's [TS]

  fragile it's got lots of pins I would [TS]

  not want something here I'm saying was [TS]

  saying ADB nut ADC yes those two [TS]

  separate things Apple desktop bus an [TS]

  Apple display connector anyway the the [TS]

  dock connector on the iPod has this [TS]

  really important property of lock in for [TS]

  iPod peripherals and everything but I [TS]

  still think was a bad idea because I [TS]

  don't I think cereal is more the way to [TS]

  go I think if Apple if Thunderbolt [TS]

  existed before the iPod took off [TS]

  Apple would have use Thunderbolt the [TS]

  very least use Thunderbolt as its bus [TS]

  for for iPods assuming the the [TS]

  connectors could be shrunk down to the [TS]

  point where they're where they could fit [TS]

  everything in and not have any heat [TS]

  issues or whatever I don't like big wide [TS]

  connectors lots of pins and a dock [TS]

  connector that carries lots of stuff [TS]

  over it especially if it's a private [TS]

  area ends up being as big wide parallel [TS]

  connected with lots of pins on it so I [TS]

  think it Apple does not would not make [TS]

  something that like you slid an Apple TV [TS]

  box into and behind it was this big [TS]

  honking pin now maybe they can do [TS]

  something where you slide the Apple TV [TS]

  in and behind it is just a thunderbolt [TS]

  connector and power or like it just [TS]

  plugs into a bunch of standard ports but [TS]

  I don't I don't see Apple doing that I [TS]

  think they like they're like no wires [TS]

  best of all one skinny little wire [TS]

  second best and big honkin proprietary [TS]

  connectors not at all for their desktops [TS]

  and laptops that's that's my prediction [TS]

  assuming they do anything like this at [TS]

  all I mean they they have an actual [TS]

  television set and need to connect it [TS]

  so Gabriel Moreno writes in to say have [TS]

  you considered a we like pointer to [TS]

  interact with TV in a way similar to how [TS]

  we interact with a stylus or a [TS]

  touchscreen something that I haven't [TS]

  seen many he will bring it up but as [TS]

  someone who uses a Wii I have thought [TS]

  about it the Wii is interesting because [TS]

  they went through a couple of different [TS]

  phases in terms of how the software [TS]

  works so the hardware when they we [TS]

  originally launched was this thing that [TS]

  accelerometers in it so we could tell [TS]

  like which the way was tilting tilting [TS]

  up to a point [TS]

  until the accelerometers maxed out next [TS]

  out and then it had an IR emitter on top [TS]

  of your TV and there was an IR receiver [TS]

  in the Wiimote and so by pointing the [TS]

  receiver at the emitters it could tell [TS]

  kind of where you were pointing on the [TS]

  screen assuming many other factors when [TS]

  an IR is not the best thing in the world [TS]

  because like say you had really bright [TS]

  sunlight coming through a window [TS]

  directly at the IR receiver on your Wii [TS]

  mote it could get confused it can [TS]

  confuse by certain kinds of bright [TS]

  lights and so a little bit later in the [TS]

  development of the Wii they added the [TS]

  Wii MotionPlus [TS]

  which was this gyroscope it could it is [TS]

  not unlike an accelerometer was just [TS]

  like tilts to a certain point and then [TS]

  it's maxed out a gyroscope is supposed [TS]

  to be able to help what the orientation [TS]

  is at 3:00 in 3d space so you could put [TS]

  it any angle you wanted in theory the [TS]

  gyroscope knew which direction was level [TS]

  and it would say you are this many [TS]

  degrees off this axis and this many [TS]

  degrees off this axis and they they can [TS]

  get confused if you shake the thing real [TS]

  hard and you have to reset them a lot [TS]

  stuff but they added and then they [TS]

  integrated Wii MotionPlus [TS]

  into the Wii mote so now you have [TS]

  accelerometers and gyroscopes and the IR [TS]

  thing now a lot of games that require [TS]

  you to point at the screen and shoot at [TS]

  something early on they use the IR [TS]

  emitter so look at the early Metroid [TS]

  Metroid Metroid Prime 3 you would point [TS]

  at the screen and it would tell where [TS]

  you're pointing based on the the 2 IR [TS]

  emitters and the receiver and figure out [TS]

  where you're pointing on the screen uh [TS]

  and they had to use do lots of software [TS]

  smoothing because if you just literally [TS]

  showed the actual values of whether [TS]

  Wiimote thought you know where the [TS]

  system thought that we went was pointing [TS]

  at any instant in time you could see the [TS]

  big jumps and stutters and everything so [TS]

  they would smooth it out with software [TS]

  to try to make it a smooth experience [TS]

  but it was still kind of twitchy [TS]

  later and a lot of games did similar [TS]

  things with us then [TS]

  they're first-person shooters and stuff [TS]

  like that later games seem to be moving [TS]

  more towards using the gyroscopes to [TS]

  figure out where you're pointing so it [TS]

  actually doesn't even matter if you're [TS]

  pointing at the screen well I guess it [TS]

  kind of does because the gyroscope is [TS]

  aligned of sort of way but it's telling [TS]

  it's basically looking at how how far is [TS]

  your Wiimote tilted so if you want to if [TS]

  you want to move your your cursor up on [TS]

  the screen you tilt the Wii mode up and [TS]

  the system is not figuring out where the [TS]

  Wii mote is pointing like literally if [TS]

  you shot a laser out of the Wii mode do [TS]

  it hit that part of your screen maybe it [TS]

  wouldn't maybe would actually go over [TS]

  your TV screen but it's clear when [TS]

  you're holding it go up go down the left [TS]

  go right and that's really what people [TS]

  just want they just want a way to [TS]

  control the thing not so much [TS]

  oh I'm pointing exactly at the corner of [TS]

  the screen and if I had a laser pointer [TS]

  taped to my wii that's exactly where the [TS]

  cursor should be and the gyroscope tends [TS]

  to be less jittery and less subject to [TS]

  environmental factors then the IR thing [TS]

  is maybe these a combination I'm not [TS]

  quite sure they just like for a modern [TS]

  game like Skyward Sword for example so [TS]

  when I think of a remote that would be [TS]

  like a Wii I think of using the current [TS]

  best practice which is go just go with [TS]

  the gyroscope and I think does the Roku [TS]

  have that someone in the chat room I [TS]

  know I think there are TV attached boxes [TS]

  that already do this that they give you [TS]

  a little remote thing to hold in your [TS]

  hand that uses gyroscopes or [TS]

  accelerometers or something similar not [TS]

  an IR emitter to direct the cursor on [TS]

  the screen as an easier way of going [TS]

  down down down right select up up select [TS]

  down you know all that business with [TS]

  your own it's a little bit easier if you [TS]

  can just point and it works really [TS]

  surprisingly well you can do lots of [TS]

  software trucks to make the cursor kind [TS]

  of stick to something like and the [TS]

  skywards in Zelda Skyward Sword when [TS]

  you're they put up a bunch of buttons on [TS]

  the screen that you want to select you [TS]

  can just kind of flick the remote in the [TS]

  direction of the button you want upper [TS]

  left lower right you know and and it [TS]

  will kind of stick to it instead of [TS]

  making you ain't exactly for the button [TS]

  and be frustrated because you're just [TS]

  off a little bit right right [TS]

  someone from saying that Roku is use a [TS]

  d-pad and but they don't know about the [TS]

  fancy Angry Bird well I think I might be [TS]

  one of the Roku's they use is ah anyway [TS]

  I think that is a good idea [TS]

  I'm sure Apple has the very least tried [TS]

  that out because from what we all hear [TS]

  about what goes on inside Apple they're [TS]

  going to try a bunch of ideas they're [TS]

  going to decide which one is best but [TS]

  and they may not ship it and then they [TS]

  may even try it develop it and patent it [TS]

  but then never use it so I have to [TS]

  assume that they have seen the Wii and [TS]

  Wii motes and things that Roku and stuff [TS]

  for doing and have given that a try and [TS]

  we'll see if they decide that's what [TS]

  passes muster for input method for your [TS]

  Apple TV but it you don't hear a lot [TS]

  about it because most of people are [TS]

  writing about Apple TV are thinking [TS]

  about touch or using something from [TS]

  Apple technologies like what [TS]

  how does iOS do it has the Magic [TS]

  Trackpad do it you know how does the [TS]

  remote app on on iOS control a control [TS]

  the stuff and we can use it you know and [TS]

  not so many people are just looking to [TS]

  the game world you know I also haven't [TS]

  heard people say they show you something [TS]

  like Kinect or use your whole body to [TS]

  control it and you wave your hands back [TS]

  and forth to change shows stuff like [TS]

  that that's also possible I'm not sure [TS]

  that you would even investigate that [TS]

  because that seems like a pretty [TS]

  expensive a solution and Microsoft [TS]

  hasn't quite even mastered it yet and [TS]

  they're still just a revision one so [TS]

  finally that's actually all the [TS]

  follow-up I have leave not that was all [TS]

  follow Wow yeah and I do have the the [TS]

  poor the poor lonely topic that got [TS]

  pushed to shows now finally waiting to [TS]

  be discussed and we could we could do [TS]

  that topic or we could talk about Lego [TS]

  Star Wars I will leave it up to you [TS]

  remind what the topic is I never told [TS]

  you but it's a it's an article that you [TS]

  brought up on talk show a while back is [TS]

  why Harper why hypercard had to die do [TS]

  you remember talking about that I sure [TS]

  do [TS]

  so that's I wanted to say some stuff [TS]

  about that too and that's how long it's [TS]

  been in my notes but or we can talk [TS]

  about Lego Star Wars Tim I will be it [TS]

  has to be one or the other I can't we [TS]

  could do both if you have time when we [TS]

  started early today yeah alright so we [TS]

  see we started early I think we do why [TS]

  not why not do both okay that's how I [TS]

  feel I mean I don't a second sponsor [TS]

  before we do sure I do then it's a it's [TS]

  a it's a quick and easy sponsor to [TS]

  you'll like that it's tiny letter this [TS]

  is a simple newsletter app for people [TS]

  with something to say there's no HTML [TS]

  templates there's no signup beg code [TS]

  there's no API each account includes [TS]

  just a single mailing list you write it [TS]

  you send your newsletter that's it it's [TS]

  simple it's personal best of all it's [TS]

  absolutely totally free always will be [TS]

  free [TS]

  if is a tiny letter com sign up and [TS]

  start writing today shit [TS]

  simple swill yems in the chatroom says [TS]

  the Roku excess has and he quotes [TS]

  enhanced remote with motion control for [TS]

  games hmm not sure if they use that in [TS]

  the menus but it clearly it's in there [TS]

  for stopping angry birds or whatever [TS]

  exactly I have your Angry Birds I just [TS]

  got this I name but I downloaded it on [TS]

  the computer that's in front of me right [TS]

  now with my regular iTunes account not [TS]

  the computer that I use to sync things [TS]

  up I do have that computer set to you [TS]

  know automatically download thing you [TS]

  know new things when I get them but I've [TS]

  heard in the past that if you get an app [TS]

  before it is pulled from the store for [TS]

  some reason that no matter what you can [TS]

  always download that app you will always [TS]

  be able to get to that app do you know [TS]

  this is true can you corroborate this [TS]

  I've heard that as well but I've never [TS]

  tested it yeah I was hoping it was true [TS]

  because I had the same situation I had [TS]

  to I was actually holding my ipod touch [TS]

  when I found out about this and I [TS]

  couldn't actually download it on my ipod [TS]

  touch because it requires the iOS 4.3 [TS]

  and I can't even run that on my old iPod [TS]

  touch right so I quickly went over to my [TS]

  Mac and just bought you know I was going [TS]

  to buy it that I didn't realize even [TS]

  free and just did it there of course [TS]

  that's not the Mac that I use to sync [TS]

  with the iPad so later like two days [TS]

  later first of all I figured I got a [TS]

  download on my Mac I've got the IPA [TS]

  sitting in some directory worst case I [TS]

  could like manually you know drag it [TS]

  over and do stuff so when I pulled up [TS]

  the iPad it you know the the new world [TS]

  of iTunes is you go to it into iTunes [TS]

  and it knows you already bought it and [TS]

  it's you can go to the purchased apps [TS]

  thing you don't have to go to the [TS]

  product page just go to you know in the [TS]

  in the app store on iOS 5 go to the [TS]

  purchased button somewhere on the bottom [TS]

  and it will show stuff that you've [TS]

  purchased that you can't yet that you [TS]

  haven't yet downloaded it don't have the [TS]

  little cloud icon and I assume that it [TS]

  will continue to show that little cloud [TS]

  icon oh no TJ Loomis says it's [TS]

  definitely not true some apps are [TS]

  removed and you can't get them again so [TS]

  you know I've never tested it maybe some [TS]

  people have run out of the problem but [TS]

  it since it's still in the store we I [TS]

  couldn't test it here so I hit the [TS]

  little cloud icon and downloaded onto [TS]

  the iPad and scooter computer says he [TS]

  thinks it depends on why Apple pulled [TS]

  them this is the thing with these [TS]

  them this is the thing with these [TS]

  these thing even if you have done this [TS]

  before even if you had this exact [TS]

  situation and you said oh I bought [TS]

  something and then it went away and I [TS]

  couldn't download it on my iPad and you [TS]

  know that really doesn't tell you [TS]

  whether in the future that will also be [TS]

  true because Apple's policies change [TS]

  without notice arbitrarily at undefined [TS]

  times with no communication to [TS]

  developers or customers so you just you [TS]

  just never know that's why everyone [TS]

  scrambles to get the stuff as soon as [TS]

  they can you know get it I'll sink that [TS]

  alright [TS]

  why HyperCard had to die I'm also you [TS]

  just want to talk about hypercard I did [TS]

  read the article and it does have offer [TS]

  theories on why harbor card went away [TS]

  and stuff like that but I think he [TS]

  talked about a lot of that with a group [TS]

  around the talkshow [TS]

  but it made me start thinking about [TS]

  hyper card I guess I'll um oh yeah [TS]

  addressing a few of these points well [TS]

  here can you can you please explain to [TS]

  people who maybe are not familiar with [TS]

  hyper card very briefly what what is or [TS]

  was hypercard and why should anybody [TS]

  care about this thing yeah I'm looking [TS]

  in my notes here I have a little first [TS]

  section unlike describing one hyper [TS]

  creditors and I realized it's probably [TS]

  not going to help people because I start [TS]

  by saying hyper card is a lot like small [TS]

  talk if you don't know what hyper card [TS]

  is the odds of you knowing what small [TS]

  talk are is a slim but I'll give it a [TS]

  try so hyper card was an application [TS]

  that you ran on a Mac classic Mac OS and [TS]

  when you ran the application it sort of [TS]

  it entered this environment and it [TS]

  metaphor was like you had stacks and I [TS]

  had cards in the in the stacks and it [TS]

  was an environment where you can create [TS]

  an application inside this other [TS]

  application and the thing that you [TS]

  created that stack you could save out to [TS]

  a separate thing and that would run [TS]

  inside the hypercard environment and [TS]

  what you were creating were basically [TS]

  GUI applications you could drag out [TS]

  little buttons and text panes and make [TS]

  little things where you click on this [TS]

  you go to a different card to use the [TS]

  card metaphor it was kind of like [TS]

  hyperlinks where you click here you go [TS]

  to a different card that card I have a [TS]

  bunch of feels a bunch of buttons and [TS]

  you would connect actions to these [TS]

  buttons when you when you put a button [TS]

  in you could connect a script to and you [TS]

  wrote in this language called hyper talk [TS]

  which is kind of like a friendly [TS]

  programming language not you know you [TS]

  didn't have to memory management or I [TS]

  think that it was kind of more like [TS]

  scripting but and so you would make it [TS]

  you would make these Apple GUI [TS]

  applications [TS]

  they weren't standalone applications [TS]

  like other Mac applications so it wasn't [TS]

  a first-class app but it was a hyper [TS]

  card stack and they could do fancy stuff [TS]

  people use them you know would make apps [TS]

  for accounting or database or whatever I [TS]

  made a bunch hypercard stacks as a kid [TS]

  doing all sorts of things it was kind of [TS]

  like since I didn't have a web browser [TS]

  the web didn't exist yet I would make [TS]

  things that you would normally make as [TS]

  web pages like it an interlinked series [TS]

  of things I remember doing like trying [TS]

  to do point-and-click adventures where I [TS]

  draw a little picture with a bunch of [TS]

  little things and if you clicked on that [TS]

  you go to a different card or some a new [TS]

  thing would appear on the screen right [TS]

  and later you know the game missed the [TS]

  blockbuster game this was actually built [TS]

  on hyper card uh sorry completely [TS]

  vindicating the concept of creating [TS]

  point click adventure games on I per [TS]

  card like wow they actually use Hyper I [TS]

  was question was a little bit better [TS]

  than the hyper card games I have been [TS]

  creating it like you know twelve years [TS]

  old or whatever but the great thing [TS]

  about the original version hypercar like [TS]

  it was literally a hyper card stack and [TS]

  for anyone had used HyperCard knew that [TS]

  if you held down the command key you'd [TS]

  see dotted lines around the region's [TS]

  they were clickable cuz that would help [TS]

  you debug your hyper card stack to see [TS]

  if you had set stuff off correctly so in [TS]

  the early versions of HyperCard of the [TS]

  Mac you would launch it if you got stuck [TS]

  you could hold on the command key near [TS]

  which a little dotted lines around the [TS]

  things you could click which is a kind [TS]

  of cheating but sometimes kind of not [TS]

  because just because you can click there [TS]

  doesn't mean any action would occur just [TS]

  meant that you know if you hadn't pulled [TS]

  this lever and then click there [TS]

  something happens but anyway to fix that [TS]

  in subsequent versions uh so I I said it [TS]

  was like small talk because small talk [TS]

  was like the self-contained environment [TS]

  I don't know the terminology for small [TS]

  talk so small talk fans will yell at me [TS]

  as I describe this but in small talk the [TS]

  environment for developing your [TS]

  applications was the same environment [TS]

  where they ran and it was like it was [TS]

  self hosting it was like one big image [TS]

  small talk image of the entire [TS]

  environment the OS the quote/unquote OS [TS]

  the small talks virtual OS and the [TS]

  programs you wrote and the ID they using [TS]

  to write them everything was all there [TS]

  there wasn't any distinction between I [TS]

  use this application to create an app [TS]

  and then I run the app the place where [TS]

  you created the application was the [TS]

  place where it would run the thing you [TS]

  were creating the application with was [TS]

  the scent you were just basically [TS]

  modifying the existing environment by [TS]

  I'm going to augment the environment you [TS]

  know and you just add to it and add to [TS]

  it so that was what hyper car was like [TS]

  it was a separate [TS]

  world where you made these hyper card [TS]

  stacks and they didn't exist outside of [TS]

  the world of HyperCard now it wasn't [TS]

  really self hoping hosting like small [TS]

  talk was I don't even know it's the [TS]

  right term self hosting it probably [TS]

  isn't in it [TS]

  you couldn't modify hyper hyper card [TS]

  environment itself by writing a hyper [TS]

  card stack you were clearly writing a [TS]

  stack that ran within the environment so [TS]

  there was that distinction but it [TS]

  reminded a lot of people small talk [TS]

  because it made it easy to write [TS]

  applications without memory management [TS]

  and all this other you know it's much [TS]

  harder to write it you know a mac [TS]

  toolbox application and see back in [TS]

  those days in pascal or whatever then it [TS]

  was to write a hyper card stack so the [TS]

  reason i want to talk about this is that [TS]

  at the dawn of the PC era there was his [TS]

  idea and you heard Steve Jobs and Steve [TS]

  Wozniak expressed this idea as well back [TS]

  in the early days of Apple that are [TS]

  backing before the early days of Apple [TS]

  and they were just you know the homebrew [TS]

  Computer Club the giving computers to [TS]

  individuals instead of having them being [TS]

  kept by the men in lab coats and pocket [TS]

  protectors in the big place giving a [TS]

  computer to an individual person was [TS]

  exciting because we're like bit you know [TS]

  previously the Department of Defense or [TS]

  the big company could have one but now [TS]

  an individual can have a computer and [TS]

  what do they think that meant what so [TS]

  once an individual computer has a [TS]

  computer has that change things well [TS]

  they thought that when you gave [TS]

  individuals computers individuals would [TS]

  be excited to do with them the same [TS]

  thing as people were doing with giant [TS]

  computers the difference was that now [TS]

  you had access so Steve Jobs and Steve [TS]

  Wozniak loved to go and play with the [TS]

  big computer on a terminal of to like [TS]

  write little programs for it stuff like [TS]

  that I figured well if everybody had a [TS]

  computer ever you know you wouldn't have [TS]

  to go to this building and beg somebody [TS]

  for time to use this computer you could [TS]

  write programs on your own um and that's [TS]

  why so many early pcs like they came [TS]

  with some sort of program like some what [TS]

  some of them even booted into it that I [TS]

  remember in my first contact with [TS]

  personal computers was that when you [TS]

  turn one on you got a basic prompt that [TS]

  was just that's like that's how a PC [TS]

  work and you could write your own [TS]

  program at that prompt you could load a [TS]

  program from a tape or whatever I just [TS]

  had it had it built it had built in [TS]

  right and you can actually just turn on [TS]

  a computer and sit down start writing [TS]

  basic yeah nothing is that it no no [TS]

  floppy drive no anything like that and [TS]

  if you didn't have a built-in or you [TS]

  know the first thing you would get your [TS]

  computer is like I need I need to get [TS]

  basic I need to get a better version of [TS]

  basic so I can write better programs [TS]

  right because whatever you had there was [TS]

  whatever had shipped with the computer [TS]

  it might be basic instead of basic a [TS]

  advanced or whatever it was and and you [TS]

  didn't wanna be stuck with that yeah and [TS]

  I remember a you know getting a computer [TS]

  that did when you turned it on it didn't [TS]

  have some other programming language [TS]

  prompt was like oh that's kind of lame I [TS]

  you know doesn't even come with one like [TS]

  well this is this computer is useless [TS]

  you didn't yeah that's right a program [TS]

  in it I got I got a alright fine I go [TS]

  out and buy you know Microsoft basic and [TS]

  stick on this thing or that you know the [TS]

  next and then it that's just how how [TS]

  computers came into the world and it [TS]

  make sense them coming out of a bunch of [TS]

  nerds who like to program but the [TS]

  reality was that you know what people [TS]

  really wanted to do with computers was [TS]

  something useful not so much right the [TS]

  program so it was like all those people [TS]

  who are excited about having their own [TS]

  computers they wanted to write programs [TS]

  but other people weren't excited about [TS]

  having their own computer didn't thought [TS]

  it was kind of silly however there's [TS]

  some quote I should have looked up from [TS]

  the IBM person was a market for maybe [TS]

  like a thousand personal computers a [TS]

  thousand computers in the entire world [TS]

  because like honestly why would an [TS]

  individual on a computer because and the [TS]

  reason they thought this was because [TS]

  what was done with computers was that [TS]

  you wrote programs for them they said [TS]

  well you know come on who's going to [TS]

  write a probe [TS]

  us nerds we're gonna write programs [TS]

  computer and if you don't want to write [TS]

  a program why would you want that's what [TS]

  you do with the computer you write [TS]

  programs and so the reaction to seeing [TS]

  that you gave all these computers to [TS]

  people and they didn't you know non nerd [TS]

  people eventually got computers and they [TS]

  wanted to run you know visicalc or [TS]

  something they want an application to [TS]

  help them run their business they didn't [TS]

  want a program visit calculator we want [TS]

  you to give them a computer finally I [TS]

  can write programs they were never going [TS]

  to write programs and so the reaction to [TS]

  this from the computer industry was oh I [TS]

  see the problem all right so we got [TS]

  these computers to everybody but no [TS]

  one's writing programs this program is [TS]

  too darn hard the dissolution is going [TS]

  to be let's make programming easier [TS]

  because obviously like we're giving [TS]

  these people's computers NATO they don't [TS]

  even understand what they've got they're [TS]

  just like alright so I load some [TS]

  software's like no you can right don't [TS]

  you understand you've got a computer in [TS]

  your own house and you can write [TS]

  programs for it isn't that awesome we [TS]

  used to have to go to that built don't [TS]

  you know they don't get it but I guess [TS]

  it's too hard what we've got to do US [TS]

  nerds who are you [TS]

  Peters we've got to make programming [TS]

  easier uh and that's when you saw things [TS]

  like yeah logo for kids where you move [TS]

  the little turtle around the screen [TS]

  AppleScript [TS]

  where it's like plain English type of [TS]

  programming hyper card is an example [TS]

  where it's really hard to write a GUI [TS]

  applications let's make an environment [TS]

  where regular people can finally can [TS]

  finally get the benefit that we all [TS]

  thought they should have from computers [TS]

  which is you can write your own programs [TS]

  you can make you know it's it's a it's a [TS]

  general-purpose computer don't you [TS]

  understand you can do anything and I [TS]

  think that really did broaden the base [TS]

  of what people could do people people [TS]

  who are not programmers you know who [TS]

  never would have tried to rake a [TS]

  Macintosh GUI application made hyper [TS]

  card stacks that you know they ran their [TS]

  business on for years i I'm sure someone [TS]

  out there will have some story about [TS]

  someone whose business is right now as [TS]

  they're listening to this still running [TS]

  an I Picard stack running on some like [TS]

  Mac se or something I read stories about [TS]

  that for years on the Internet where [TS]

  there's just like they wrote this [TS]

  awesome hyper card stack and it exactly [TS]

  fit their business and they made it [TS]

  themselves and they're so proud of it [TS]

  and they just want to keep running it [TS]

  forever and they're disappointed that [TS]

  HyperCard didn't live on now let's think [TS]

  about today's application application [TS]

  making environments things that make [TS]

  programming easier that the trend today [TS]

  is to make the pieces do more so an [TS]

  hypercard you make a button and you can [TS]

  make a text field you can make a check [TS]

  box and you can make like a worthy click [TS]

  on it go somewhere each one of those [TS]

  things is actually fiendishly complex [TS]

  from the perspective of like a basic [TS]

  prompt just getting like a functioning [TS]

  button and GUI and an event system and [TS]

  windowing system that's tremendously [TS]

  difficult so it's just an amazing feat [TS]

  like that you just drag a button out or [TS]

  click and make a new button isn't that [TS]

  great but today like you think about an [TS]

  automated workflow the pieces of that [TS]

  Automator workflow like things you can [TS]

  drag into an automated workflow are more [TS]

  complicated than the most complicated [TS]

  programs that existed in the dawn of the [TS]

  PC era you know one little piece of an [TS]

  automated workflow can do this amazing [TS]

  an image manipulation by just checking a [TS]

  bunch of check boxes or think of course [TS]

  Composer with the things that that can [TS]

  do with no program whatsoever just by [TS]

  connecting up lines and setting values [TS]

  it's unbelievably powerful pieces [TS]

  individually [TS]

  that you can connect together with [TS]

  little lines and dots and just click and [TS]

  buttons and gooeys that can do amazing [TS]

  things and that you can build you can [TS]

  build up a pretty complicated program [TS]

  with an automated workflow by connecting [TS]

  these incredibly powerful pieces that [TS]

  you didn't have to write which is even [TS]

  more powerful than just connecting a [TS]

  bunch of buttons you didn't have to [TS]

  write you know what I mean uh so that [TS]

  that seems to be the trend these days is [TS]

  like another way is like a very [TS]

  configurable tool right where Automator [TS]

  Automator is not you know it's not a [TS]

  programming language you'll have to [TS]

  write as no code at all it's it's just [TS]

  like a tool that you can use to build [TS]

  other tools and it's very configurable [TS]

  as lots of check boxes and you control [TS]

  how the pieces you know connect together [TS]

  and what the inputs and outputs are [TS]

  right now my take on this entire [TS]

  endeavor of making programming easier is [TS]

  that in all these cases Apple scripts [TS]

  HyperCard Automator the the harsh [TS]

  reality is that anything that provides [TS]

  this benefit that you know that lowers [TS]

  the bar for people to do powerful things [TS]

  they can figure themselves inevitably in [TS]

  all cases leads to programming [TS]

  I guess primary programming with a [TS]

  capital P even an Automator workflow [TS]

  alright once you once you get beyond the [TS]

  few set of things that you can do you [TS]

  very very quickly get into actual [TS]

  programming conditionals loops [TS]

  abstraction you know and that that leap [TS]

  into the world of being a programmer [TS]

  it's it's great that we've lowered the [TS]

  bar and more people can get into that [TS]

  world but the people who make that leap [TS]

  they they are the programmers of the [TS]

  world they are the people who think like [TS]

  programmers who can do that type of [TS]

  thing and most of the world still and I [TS]

  think always will not be that type of [TS]

  person uh no matter how easy you make it [TS]

  and I don't think it even makes a [TS]

  difference how easy you make it no [TS]

  matter how powerful the individual [TS]

  pieces are you will so quickly get into [TS]

  a situation where to assemble those [TS]

  pieces you need to understand loops [TS]

  conditionals functions abstraction it [TS]

  you know data [TS]

  you know it just it's inevitable there [TS]

  is no way you can make programming and [TS]

  easy enough that you don't need to [TS]

  understand those concepts and I think [TS]

  those concepts are not natural to most [TS]

  people they're most natural to nerds and [TS]

  going up the spectrum of like less being [TS]

  less nerdy I don't even know the [TS]

  particular Astra buttes are nerd them [TS]

  that make us make this type of stuff [TS]

  makes so much sense to us or make it an [TS]

  enjoyable or you know tolerant yeah [TS]

  worst or you know scratches our itches [TS]

  or makes us that feel good actually I [TS]

  could do a whole show about what what [TS]

  actually makes people good programmers [TS]

  and how it's usually not what people [TS]

  people themselves think so I should put [TS]

  that in the notes all right so while I [TS]

  think it's great that these tools have [TS]

  been providing more powerful pieces [TS]

  I think the Utopia that people might [TS]

  have envisioned before you know before [TS]

  the dawn of the PC eight or just as the [TS]

  PC Age was dawning that she's you know [TS]

  once everybody has a computer everyone [TS]

  will be able to be a programmer that [TS]

  will never happen unless be you know [TS]

  unless the entire world's wiped out and [TS]

  the only people left are programmers you [TS]

  know it simply will not happen doesn't [TS]

  it doesn't mean that all these things [TS]

  aren't good it just means that that's [TS]

  not going to happen and they say well [TS]

  HyperCard is gone and if I we still had [TS]

  HyperCard everyone we would be making [TS]

  awesome hypercar sex everyone would not [TS]

  be like the nut percentage of people who [TS]

  can make awesome hypercard stacks is so [TS]

  small I I think we definitely need to [TS]

  continue to make development better and [TS]

  better for programmers so programmers [TS]

  can be more productive but we are never [TS]

  going to be in a world where everybody [TS]

  reaps the benefits that we as [TS]

  programmers feel we can reap we are [TS]

  making the world better for programmers [TS]

  and we programmers in turn will make the [TS]

  world better for everybody I hope right [TS]

  but it's never going to be something [TS]

  that everybody does it's kind of and [TS]

  it's kind of weird to like to think [TS]

  about that this is kind of like someone [TS]

  saying boy these amazing new modern [TS]

  woodworking tools are going to make [TS]

  everybody build their own cabinets for [TS]

  the kitchen right the it's going to make [TS]

  woodworking much more awesome and will [TS]

  broaden the base of people who can do [TS]

  woodworking versus you know it takes [TS]

  more skill to use hand tools and chisels [TS]

  to make awesome fine furniture and than [TS]

  it does to use power tools but it still [TS]

  takes a lot of skill and it's not going [TS]

  to suddenly make the entire human race [TS]

  able to make [TS]

  Furniture themselves with power tools a [TS]

  they might not even want to and be the [TS]

  skills for doing that are not as [TS]

  widespread as people who are woodworkers [TS]

  might might think they're going to be [TS]

  and it's just kind of presumptuous of [TS]

  programmers to think the only thing [TS]

  stopping the entire world from from [TS]

  reaping the benefits that we as [TS]

  programmers reap is the fact that [TS]

  computers are that you know our big [TS]

  machines in a big room once we get them [TS]

  all tout to the people [TS]

  everyone will together ok well now [TS]

  they're all to the people but it's too [TS]

  hard will make it easier it's just never [TS]

  going to happen so I I sympathize with [TS]

  people with the death of HyperCard and I [TS]

  think we do need to make those tools [TS]

  better and better but I do want to come [TS]

  out against the notion that we're all [TS]

  going to be programmers because we're [TS]

  not the only people are going to be [TS]

  programmers are programmers and I we can [TS]

  grow that base I think we can grow that [TS]

  base but there's a hard limit on it not [TS]

  beyond a certain point [TS]

  oh now one more thing to talk about here [TS]

  the thing that kills me about the ways [TS]

  we've tried to make programming easier [TS]

  and broaden the base is a lot of them [TS]

  seem to be based on that that mistaken [TS]

  notion that anyone can be a programmer [TS]

  Apple script is a good example and even [TS]

  hyper talk a little bit of our the way [TS]

  hypercar was made of saying well the [TS]

  problem is that syntax is like weird and [TS]

  uh and that's that's off-putting to [TS]

  people with it with the square brackets [TS]

  and the semicolons and the weird [TS]

  punctuation and all these harsh rules [TS]

  about syntax and you got to write it [TS]

  exactly right what if we made it more [TS]

  flexible like English you know you know [TS]

  select the contents of window one put [TS]

  the folder into the wind you know that's [TS]

  Apple script right and you can phrase in [TS]

  lots of different ways and we'll do the [TS]

  same thing but use english word it's not [TS]

  punctuation because people who are not [TS]

  programmers have trouble with that [TS]

  punctuation making programming language [TS]

  more powerful and more forgiving is good [TS]

  but trying to do it by making [TS]

  programming languages that no programmer [TS]

  wants to use is not the right way to do [TS]

  it and I think Apple script with very [TS]

  few exceptions is that syntax and that [TS]

  that type of language is looked down [TS]

  upon by quote unquote real programs not [TS]

  because it's not powerful anything it's [TS]

  like it's Turing complete right it's [TS]

  just it gets in our way and the decades [TS]

  and decades of programming experience [TS]

  the human race has says that you know [TS]

  it's good to be forgiving and flexible [TS]

  and everything but the English language [TS]

  I think as we establish at the top of [TS]

  the show [TS]

  is actually fiendishly complicated and [TS]

  people can't even write regular you know [TS]

  we don't even know how to communicate to [TS]

  each other successfully in prose but [TS]

  keeping programming out of it that's not [TS]

  that's not the model to use for telling [TS]

  a computer what to do right that I [TS]

  expect that people might send email to [TS]

  me saying well what about Perl this big [TS]

  thing is that you know it's got more [TS]

  than one way to do it and it's got to be [TS]

  more like a language I think Perl is a [TS]

  great example where they took took the [TS]

  things that make programming language is [TS]

  easier things about context and and [TS]

  having different ways to write the same [TS]

  thing based on context those are those [TS]

  are ideas that we use in written [TS]

  communication but Perl is not it's not [TS]

  they didn't go whole hog and say it's [TS]

  like it's like the skeuomorphism of a [TS]

  programming language oh we're going to [TS]

  make program language look like this [TS]

  other thing which is in a program we get [TS]

  look like pros Perl does not look like [TS]

  pros I don't think anyone has ever said [TS]

  the pro looks like pros it takes the [TS]

  concepts from successful linguistic [TS]

  communication linguistic structures and [TS]

  applies them to a programming language [TS]

  and by the way I'll also add that I was [TS]

  came up this week cuz I was doing a lot [TS]

  of JavaScript Perl has such awesome [TS]

  error reporting people tell you late [TS]

  will figure out like oh I think you'd [TS]

  forgot the close quote way up here and [TS]

  that's why this error message down here [TS]

  is saying something nonsensical to you [TS]

  it will do the work to figure out you [TS]

  know and this tab was just from decades [TS]

  of development of stuff and every time I [TS]

  use a programming language like [TS]

  JavaScript it isn't as forgiving it [TS]

  would just say uh you know unexpected [TS]

  token blah and you look at that line [TS]

  like that's perfectly fine and it's [TS]

  because 17 lines earlier something [TS]

  wasn't terminated or you've got a [TS]

  semicolon or whatever and it doesn't [TS]

  help you out it doesn't it doesn't say [TS]

  by the way I think it's because you have [TS]

  a nun terminate string constant or by [TS]

  the way I think you have you know you [TS]

  didn't realize this was a continuation [TS]

  of the previous line but it actually is [TS]

  that's that's another example of making [TS]

  programming language friendlier for [TS]

  programmers because we all know what [TS]

  it's like when you get some obscure MS [TS]

  you get four you're at that error [TS]

  message makes no sense what is the [TS]

  actual error especially the languages in [TS]

  the compiled is that word just the sub [TS]

  languages realize the implementation the [TS]

  compilers they will just plow forward [TS]

  and give you eight billion messages and [TS]

  you got to like go to the first one or [TS]

  the last one or try to figure out what [TS]

  was the actual error before this thing [TS]

  went totally off the rails and the [TS]

  parser was completely confused and it [TS]

  had no idea what was going on you know [TS]

  so I think make [TS]

  language as high level as you want [TS]

  high-level programming languages are [TS]

  great but English is not the way to do [TS]

  that that was that was a blind alley so [TS]

  that's why I'm one of the ways I'm not [TS]

  disappointed that HyperCard went by the [TS]

  wayside and we got things like web [TS]

  programming where it's using a [TS]

  high-level language but it's not like [TS]

  English and there a lot of things [TS]

  provided for you you know HTML is easier [TS]

  than doing your own screen drawing using [TS]

  core graphics or whatever although the [TS]

  canvas element starts confusing that a [TS]

  little bit but I think the web is a [TS]

  better example of a programming [TS]

  environment that allows more people to [TS]

  be programmers but I don't think anyone [TS]

  would argue that programming JavaScript [TS]

  for the web is not real programming yeah [TS]

  that's what I have to say about the [TS]

  death of HyperCard the death of [TS]

  HyperCard my heart had to die didn't [TS]

  have to die as a nothing less if the [TS]

  EPPICard if I heard he lived on would be [TS]

  fine that the article if I wasn't [TS]

  insulting conspiracy theories about how [TS]

  Apple doesn't want people to be able to [TS]

  make their own programs and how [TS]

  HyperCard empower the users but Apple is [TS]

  all about not empowering them I think [TS]

  Apple as a company has come to the [TS]

  realization that were all not gonna be [TS]

  programmers came to that realization [TS]

  long ago and so it's not so concerned [TS]

  with making yeah [TS]

  making programming environments that [TS]

  everyone can use ready to talk about [TS]

  Lego Star Wars Lego Star Wars the [TS]

  Complete Saga the Complete Saga so there [TS]

  were a while ago not sure how many weeks [TS]

  ago it was we discussed getting a Wii [TS]

  and one of the games that you [TS]

  recommended was this Star Wars the the [TS]

  official name is Lego Star Wars the [TS]

  Complete Saga is a Wii game it's also [TS]

  available for PlayStation 3 and Xbox and [TS]

  tendo DS apparently even for the Mac did [TS]

  you know that I did so this game I guess [TS]

  collects a whole series of other games [TS]

  that came out [TS]

  before it it's you know it's a very [TS]

  popular game for Wii and it's very cheap [TS]

  as far as games in general go it's like [TS]

  on Amazon and again this will be in the [TS]

  show notes and the show note the URL for [TS]

  the show notes is five by five TV slash [TS]

  hypercritical slash 47 is 1718 bucks if [TS]

  you have Amazon Prime that's it 8:17 77 [TS]

  is the price in there today [TS]

  415 customer reviews and it's got four [TS]

  and a half stars so I got this thing [TS]

  loaded it up so fun game fun little game [TS]

  there's an adventure you can do or you [TS]

  could just like you said you and just [TS]

  run around and smash up little bots that [TS]

  respond endlessly are you playing it or [TS]

  is your son playing I have not I've not [TS]

  in yet introduce it to him it's probably [TS]

  going to be introduced a couple days on [TS]

  Christmas so have you bought it like [TS]

  playing playing the game like as in [TS]

  advancing through no I just ran around [TS]

  and you don't mess around with a little [TS]

  bit I think there's a two-player mode I [TS]

  think you very like yeah but just get to [TS]

  wiimotes and you're both run around [TS]

  right so I did my wife and I you know it [TS]

  looked at it to see if it was something [TS]

  he he would do or would be interested in [TS]

  doing or would be appropriate and so [TS]

  would you don't get it seemed like you [TS]

  didn't get to pick who you are you're [TS]

  just these just the two guys Anakin and [TS]

  you run around and smash things and well [TS]

  you know you unlock things eventually [TS]

  and you can play as every character in [TS]

  the entire universe you have to like buy [TS]

  them with virtual in-game currency that [TS]

  you find you know I'm right it's all [TS]

  that unlockable stuff and so the things [TS]

  I mentioned last time that I want you [TS]

  can remote-control c-3po make them [TS]

  unlock doors and make little droids do [TS]

  things it's a neat idea it's a great [TS]

  very cool game and the thing I was so [TS]

  surprised about when I got this game a [TS]

  little bit for kids I was hit the first [TS]

  the only barrier really to play in this [TS]

  game successfully is grasping the [TS]

  concept that you move the little thump [TS]

  stick around on the guy runs which [TS]

  actually is a pretty significant leap [TS]

  that I know my adults have not made that [TS]

  leap yet but kids kids once the kids get [TS]

  it they they will you know they will get [TS]

  it and that'll be it you won't have to [TS]

  but until they get it it can be [TS]

  frustrating them to see the little man [TS]

  on the screen and not quite understand [TS]

  what they have to do with their body to [TS]

  make the little man move and wavin that [TS]

  Wiimote around to make light say around [TS]

  is great because they'll figure that out [TS]

  on their own right but you still got to [TS]

  make the guy run around and this jump [TS]

  but do you find is it easier for you to [TS]

  wave the controller around to make a [TS]

  lightsaber because I found it easier [TS]

  just using controller did ya we're old [TS]

  school we use the buttons but I've found [TS]

  that kids like to wave it it's more fun [TS]

  you know and they're not so concerned [TS]

  with the max they weren't brought up in [TS]

  the unforgiving world of actual arcade [TS]

  games or a teacher quarters or even like [TS]

  early a Nintendo games where it's just [TS]

  you know we're all about efficiency [TS]

  precision because we're we have to must [TS]

  battle the machine but yeah it's a it's [TS]

  a kinder gentler word because these but [TS]

  the thing I wanted to say about this [TS]

  game is I was shocked by how difficult [TS]

  it is even for me as an adult [TS]

  gamer to figure out what they wanted me [TS]

  to do next to progress in the game yes [TS]

  not none of the individual tasks were [TS]

  ever difficult but oh my Jesus is [TS]

  supposed to be a game for kids you [TS]

  should be doing the thing you know like [TS]

  think about the early levels in a Mario [TS]

  or Zelda game they they they're so great [TS]

  about holding your hand and saying you [TS]

  know this is how you jump and here's a [TS]

  fun thing it's not like a demo level [TS]

  like the game itself ramps you in it [TS]

  says we're gonna do something that's [TS]

  going to teach you how to jump without [TS]

  feeling like you're learning how to jump [TS]

  but unbeknownst to you by doing this fun [TS]

  thing you were learning how jumping [TS]

  works and then they add to it okay now [TS]

  here's a double jumping works now here's [TS]

  how sliding works now here's how you use [TS]

  your items in Zelda because I use your [TS]

  sort you know it builds and builds and [TS]

  builds until you have the skills and [TS]

  they lead you through here's the next [TS]

  thing we think you should do oh you [TS]

  should go over there and do that or this [TS]

  is lighting up you know very clear never [TS]

  you never like stuck there going I don't [TS]

  know what to do next right at its best [TS]

  great Nintendo games and other games and [TS]

  especially kids games should lead you [TS]

  through and let you know to further [TS]

  progress that's love you must do this [TS]

  now star wars lego game unbelievably [TS]

  feel no compunction about just letting [TS]

  you sit there and go geez I have no idea [TS]

  what I'm just in this room I guess yeah [TS]

  I'm just I can't get out of this room [TS]

  none of these doors are open I have no [TS]

  freaking idea [TS]

  nothing is glowing no little hint is [TS]

  appearing you know and I know like [TS]

  serious gamers hate that where it's like [TS]

  you've been you've been idle for two [TS]

  minutes and some little character comes [TS]

  out and hey I really think you should go [TS]

  see but like don't don't give me the [TS]

  hints its baby but this [TS]

  is a game kids I thought tell them geez [TS]

  tell them what they should do and you [TS]

  know like especially the beginning I [TS]

  assume that's what kind of game it would [TS]

  be like Jesus can't have a bug or [TS]

  something because it's not it's not [TS]

  clear what we're supposed to do next [TS]

  yeah you know as a gamer I can go [TS]

  through and figure out what they want me [TS]

  to all you got to go up to this torch [TS]

  and use the Force to yank the pieces of [TS]

  the torch off and that it explicably [TS]

  makes the wheel of a car and bring the [TS]

  wheel of the car over to the car how [TS]

  would you ever figure that out it's like [TS]

  the Hitchhiker's Guide text adventure [TS]

  this you know there's no rhyme or reason [TS]

  there's no logical way you could suss [TS]

  out if I do this this will make some [TS]

  item that's totally in Congress that [TS]

  will allow me to advance in a level I [TS]

  mean as a gamer eventually you learn [TS]

  I'll use the Force on everything break [TS]

  everything up anytime you see destroy [TS]

  everything hit everything with your [TS]

  sword and I guess kids will figure that [TS]

  out too but it's kind of cruel to make [TS]

  them basically use a brute-force attack [TS]

  to figure out how to progress in the [TS]

  game [TS]

  I know I didn't get any complaints about [TS]

  this for my son because what does he [TS]

  knows one of the first games he's played [TS]

  but I would say that is the biggest [TS]

  failing of the Star Wars Lego games that [TS]

  there is not enough hand-holding in [TS]

  terms of progression for the kids so [TS]

  when you're playing with your son I [TS]

  advise you to figure out what to do next [TS]

  otherwise he will get bored running [TS]

  around the same exact spot because he'll [TS]

  want to like what when do I get to play [TS]

  as as you know Luke in the flight outfit [TS]

  when do I get to fly an x-wing window 8 [TS]

  to wrap around the snow speeders and you [TS]

  won't be able to do that unless you [TS]

  unlock stuff so you will someone will [TS]

  have to progress through the game to [TS]

  unlock stuff to be able to play all [TS]

  these things and whether that's you or [TS]

  him it's worth doing because you can't [TS]

  get the maximum benefit out of the game [TS]

  without plowing through these very [TS]

  obscure strange the non helpful gameplay [TS]

  things that you have to do ok then this [TS]

  was your topic with Lego Star Wars but [TS]

  you're just saying [TS]

  thumbs up for it but you did know I [TS]

  didn't I didn't say thumbs up for it [TS]

  did I say those that I said uh yes it [TS]

  seems oh I haven't I haven't put it put [TS]

  in front of them yet super for his 4th [TS]

  birthday he got this big ego [TS]

  he's really into really into like Batman [TS]

  it's [TS]

  and superheroes in general Star Wars is [TS]

  such a distant third maybe third you [TS]

  know he's way more into the superhero [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  so his birthday you know he got this my [TS]

  mom got him this the Batcave thing he's [TS]

  got the little figures he's you know so [TS]

  right now that was like the big thing [TS]

  and we didn't want to have that and the [TS]

  we and all happening his birthday he's [TS]

  you know his birthday is close enough to [TS]

  Christmas so he separated that out and [TS]

  uh and then my father in London and and [TS]

  that side of the femme then that now [TS]

  they got him one of these geo tracks [TS]

  Batman Geo Trax thing so with the we may [TS]

  not even be brought out for Christmas [TS]

  who knows he doesn't even know it even [TS]

  know what it's there he knows who Mario [TS]

  is can you imagine if when you were a [TS]

  kid you knew that this was happening [TS]

  first of all I don't think it was [TS]

  happening with my parents but I do the [TS]

  same thing where we will buy things to [TS]

  our children but not give them to them [TS]

  and just sort of like keep them in [TS]

  storage like oh well this is you know [TS]

  this isn't even in storage is right [TS]

  there under under the TV in the [TS]

  entertainment center yeah or you know [TS]

  hiding in plain sight I think whereas if [TS]

  I knew for example that my parents had [TS]

  bought the Millennium Falcon playset and [TS]

  thought yeah we don't give him to this [TS]

  photos wait a little while maybe give [TS]

  him his birthday or something I would [TS]

  have gone nuts knowing that's in the [TS]

  house and they weren't giving it to me [TS]

  actually happened they would just [TS]

  actually buy things and give the kids [TS]

  these days seem like they have more toys [TS]

  than then you know my children had more [TS]

  toys by the age of two than I'd ever [TS]

  owned in my entire life [TS]

  very well said absolutely right there's [TS]

  there's this video remember this guy who [TS]

  had trained his dog uh and he would put [TS]

  he would like balance the treat on the [TS]

  edge of its nose and he would have you [TS]

  know this amazing treat right in front [TS]

  and he would like make it walk forward [TS]

  and then walk backwards away from the [TS]

  treat and then lay down and all this [TS]

  stuff knowing that the treat was [TS]

  centimeters away from the mouth of the [TS]

  dog and uh you know it's it it you're [TS]

  almost saying it's like that but the [TS]

  kids they don't have any idea they don't [TS]

  care they're just happy to get it [TS]

  whenever it's there and and it's [TS]

  certainly not like [TS]

  he has no toys you know we have a room [TS]

  of toys I don't even know where these [TS]

  came from I don't know how he they [TS]

  they're here yeah and when we complain [TS]

  about this I find myself complaining us [TS]

  all time it's like you know people say [TS]

  especially people who don't have kids [TS]

  will say well you know the toys don't by [TS]

  themselves you the kids aren't buying [TS]

  the toys you are buying against you kid [TS]

  if your kid has too many toys it's [TS]

  because you're my mom made toys and [TS]

  there is definitely truth to that [TS]

  although I also think that the the [TS]

  phenomenon a relative's buying toys has [TS]

  also gotten worse in that when I was a [TS]

  kid you know my grandparents would get [TS]

  me one toy and I'll barely be that [TS]

  interested in what that toy was or [TS]

  whatever but now the grandparents want [TS]

  to get like I'm teen toys all he's now [TS]

  he doesn't want this does you want that [TS]

  you know that's just that's what [TS]

  grandparents do and that's what we all [TS]

  do that we all it especially for nerds I [TS]

  I keep meaning to set up all the Legos [TS]

  than my son's owns in his room assuming [TS]

  they will fit in his room and photograph [TS]

  them just just to catalog the madness [TS]

  because when I was a kid all of my Legos [TS]

  fit into a single tough steel toolbox [TS]

  retainer that was about like a foot and [TS]

  a half high six inches deep and that was [TS]

  all the Legos I had like I had like a [TS]

  bucket you want to play with your Legos [TS]

  dump them out that's it [TS]

  that's what you gotta and that that and [TS]

  everything I made had to be pretty good [TS]

  at all if I had one more wing piece I [TS]

  could do this but I don't [TS]

  that's right here like everything I made [TS]

  had to be there built around the limited [TS]

  set of you know space Legos that I had [TS]

  right you know you remember that movie [TS]

  you remember that movie Firefox with [TS]

  Clint Eastwood yep aggression yeah that [TS]

  okay so I wanted to make the Firefox toy [TS]

  and I had some of those you know I don't [TS]

  know if they said if he made these [TS]

  things there were flat panels like you [TS]

  could they were very very thin and you [TS]

  would just put them on top of a another [TS]

  surface and they were just flat and you [TS]

  know I never had enough to cover the [TS]

  surface of the plane yeah I didn't have [TS]

  enough nd pieces to do two wings that [TS]

  bent down one big bendy piece and one [TS]

  begin the tour tortures of the Damned so [TS]

  a lot of the reason I think that we find [TS]

  ourselves the children way too many toys [TS]

  this and how it's like compensating for [TS]

  our childhoods because we can't help it [TS]

  like I'm buying these Legos for my kids [TS]

  but Jesus I'm fine it's half buying [TS]

  Legos for myself and now I don't I don't [TS]

  build these Legos I make my son build [TS]

  every single Lego set himself the only [TS]

  thing I do [TS]

  when we sit down to do Lego says I will [TS]

  find the pieces of the inventory for [TS]

  each step because he has trouble finding [TS]

  them and the big thing and you know [TS]

  we're going to divide labor I find the [TS]

  pieces I put them out for you he assign [TS]

  has to figure out where they go and [TS]

  assemble them all himself but yeah a lot [TS]

  of it is nerds buying nerd toys for [TS]

  their kids that they wish they had when [TS]

  they were kids and that's part of the [TS]

  reason you know it's our own fault why [TS]

  our kids end up with too many toys but [TS]

  so getting back to buying toys and not [TS]

  giving to them I mean maybe that that's [TS]

  a little bit better than just giving [TS]

  them too many toys at least we're [TS]

  recognizing they have too many toys [TS]

  we're trying to do something about it [TS]

  we're working on it you know it's a [TS]

  12-step program but when I when I got [TS]

  skyward when I got Skyward Sword from my [TS]

  son he was dying to get that game uh and [TS]

  and my wife is like ah you should give [TS]

  that to him for as one of his Christmas [TS]

  presents and but I wanted to plan it [TS]

  before Christmas that one's good to him [TS]

  so I bought Skyward Sword and I put it [TS]

  with all the other Wii games you know in [TS]

  the entertainment center slotted in with [TS]

  all the little white other white DVD [TS]

  shaped cases and it sat there for like [TS]

  three weeks while we were playing [TS]

  another game because when I play one [TS]

  game at once we were finishing up some [TS]

  other game nice you never noticed it [TS]

  it's amazing the kids don't you know he [TS]

  can read he could have gone over there [TS]

  and read the name on the spine of every [TS]

  single wee game and seen Legend of Zelda [TS]

  Skyward Sword he would have flipped out [TS]

  but that was there for weeks never even [TS]

  noticed it kids these days yeah maybe [TS]

  they will listen back to this and be [TS]

  shocked that the the torture we put them [TS]

  through but since they're not so starved [TS]

  for toys like there's no way that a [TS]

  Millennium Falcon place that could have [TS]

  been hidden my house and we not found it [TS]

  at at that age someone the chat room [TS]

  pasted in the URL to the Lord of the [TS]

  Rings Legos coming in summer 2012 right [TS]

  yeah I'm excited about that too [TS]

  I'm ashamed to say my son is not excited [TS]

  I showed him the animated movie of The [TS]

  Hobbit but uh that's about it that's all [TS]

  we have for today's episode because / [TS]

  we're wandering into composing on one [TS]

  tech related topics but yeah it's the [TS]

  holidays folks you just got to give [TS]

  allowances for stuff like that and we [TS]

  people have asked well again I'll [TS]

  reiterate this we have been asked if we [TS]

  will be doing shows next week and in [TS]

  fact John has agreed to do a show each [TS]

  day of the week [TS]

  heck so about these Monday through [TS]

  Friday of next week you can tune in and [TS]

  catch John live from 8 a.m. to to 8 p.m. [TS]

  I gotta get as many shows in as possible [TS]

  for Gruber records again that's right [TS]

  because you mentioned this is to you [TS]

  know quickly uh unseating John Gruber s [TS]

  the man with the most shows actually [TS]

  it's not even good not that's not gonna [TS]

  be older than my older brother in five [TS]

  years just wait oh I suppose I suppose [TS]

  he could stop recording for two and a [TS]

  half years and then I could surpass him [TS]

  but I don't see that he'll don't give me [TS]

  any ideas it's bad enough that he takes [TS]

  these vacations yeah how dare he yeah [TS]

  well I guess that is it then for this [TS]

  episode and uh this is the last episode [TS]

  before Christmas but not the last [TS]

  episode of 2011 we will have at least at [TS]

  least one more you're gonna go get that [TS]

  call right what call is that phone just [TS]

  rang is that not you not me that's very [TS]

  alright who know I don't know there's [TS]

  all everything's ringing here okay [TS]

  Sabine Reaper's look at that I have my [TS]

  fat because we have this landline this [TS]

  is funny we have a landline it's not [TS]

  actually landline it's through the cable [TS]

  modem you know their service they give [TS]

  you a phone line so II don't that never [TS]

  use it we never receive incoming calls [TS]

  on it we only sometimes call people so I [TS]

  have my printer wall in one printer fax [TS]

  machine thing plugged into it at all [TS]

  times and I have it set to answer [TS]

  immediately so because that we don't [TS]

  even at you know no but nobody calls us [TS]

  on this thing so hopefully anybody who [TS]

  would dare call it is going to be [TS]

  assaulted by the fax machine they [TS]

  installed hit by beeps yeah yeah it's a [TS]

  war it's a in case anybody wants to know [TS]

  it's an epson workforce 633 you can do [TS]

  this remote scanning you can send faxes [TS]

  to it so if you need to send a fax you [TS]

  can just print you just hit print and [TS]

  it'll little fax right from the print [TS]

  dialog in Mac OS 10 no no additional [TS]

  software [TS]

  sorry did you know about that kind of [TS]

  thing I did as I never want to do actual [TS]

  real paper facts I always want to do the [TS]

  magic print and then it magically faxes [TS]

  up yeah I prefer to do things over email [TS]

  with with PDF and things like that but [TS]

  when when you are required to fax [TS]

  something that that's the way to do it [TS]

  and it scans like that to which steams [TS]

  it doesn't doesn't seem possible like [TS]

  that that's one of these things all the [TS]

  stuff all the cool toys that we have all [TS]

  the neat stuff you do airplane [TS]

  everything else the idea that you can [TS]

  print right to a fax it's like mind [TS]

  boggling scan over the way because you [TS]

  don't have to plug in it's all it's all [TS]

  Wi-Fi print directly to a papyrus scroll [TS]

  that's that's right [TS]

  it would chisel your message on a little [TS]

  pyramid is very cool stuff all right [TS]

  John we'll have a great have a great [TS]

  Christmas you're tuned in and Happy [TS]

  Hanukkah [TS]

  you [TS]