The Incomparable

314: Vampire Batman

 

  the incomparable number 314 artists 2060 [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason Steele [TS]

  we're here to talk [TS]

  it's our comic book club hey look at [TS]

  that a comic book club is back and we're [TS]

  going to talk about a series of comics [TS]

  from a person whose name i have a [TS]

  problem i pronouncing but i think david [TS]

  Laura will help me out [TS]

  David it would be Kurt you see eck cured [TS]

  Busey accurate that's is a carrier to [TS]

  Kurt it's just Kurt Kurt pc oh yeah i [TS]

  know i managed to mispronounce the wrong [TS]

  name anyway David Lawrence here hi David [TS]

  hi this is my eyes are also here for [TS]

  comical club of course hi Lisa [TS]

  it's a pleasure to be here Tony sindelar [TS]

  also joins us hi Tony [TS]

  hi everybody hello nerds okay you broke [TS]

  down and you did your catchphrase look [TS]

  at that people people get angry when I [TS]

  came with i'm just still like it hit [TS]

  okay fair enough attention Sutter I [TS]

  welcome at f3 case [TS]

  alright comic book club is back in [TS]

  session we we I think we kind of talked [TS]

  ourselves into this in the last episode [TS]

  we're going to talk about Astro City by [TS]

  kurt busiek and it started in the mid [TS]

  nineties i never read it [TS]

  i I've been catching up over the last [TS]

  couple of days and you cost me a lot of [TS]

  money people because I'm just gonna keep [TS]

  buying them now because it really good [TS]

  either really very good there from image [TS]

  originally and but anyway it's it's it's [TS]

  kurt musics invention you may know him [TS]

  from Marvel's actually is the place [TS]

  where I I i mean i think i'd seen his [TS]

  work before but that's the that is one [TS]

  of the comics that really brought me [TS]

  back i think we talked about this in our [TS]

  marvels and kingdom come [TS]

  episode that those those comics but [TS]

  brought me back to comics really when I [TS]

  saw those in the bookstore and and and [TS]

  Astro City has some things in common [TS]

  with Marvel's i would say this is a this [TS]

  is I was trying to explain this to my [TS]

  son who asked me today what this thing [TS]

  was that i was reading and I said it's [TS]

  kind of a comic about a city full of [TS]

  superheroes and what it's like to live [TS]

  there because that's kind of what it is [TS]

  but I i was wondering if those of you [TS]

  who got more of a history with Astro [TS]

  City could maybe put the what this is [TS]

  into a little more context [TS]

  well it's [TS]

  it's a sort of sparked from reading and [TS]

  writing all the traditional things for [TS]

  Marvel and DC and all and the the idea [TS]

  of writing this alternate group of [TS]

  superheroes in this alternate universe [TS]

  really that had a history that wasn't [TS]

  just you know [TS]

  ok here's the first issue with this [TS]

  superhero and that's all you see and [TS]

  then it goes forward the the stories [TS]

  master city it's really more of an [TS]

  anthology and you know issues and books [TS]

  can be set in any period in astor city's [TS]

  history they can be single issue stories [TS]

  they can run multiple issues it's it's [TS]

  kind of amazing and the freedom of it [TS]

  you know when you know that you don't [TS]

  have to do 700 issues with this one hero [TS]

  and his team or his group or his family [TS]

  it's it's liberating it's also nice [TS]

  because he's able to do things with [TS]

  these characters that you wouldn't do [TS]

  with Superman or Batman they can die [TS]

  they can be changed and transformed in [TS]

  ways that wouldn't happen any major [TS]

  comic companies superheroes so that that [TS]

  adds a little bit to Italy so what's [TS]

  your what's your history with after [TS]

  sitting it's not as deep as i thought it [TS]

  was because it wasn't one of my must [TS]

  pulled titles for vertigo and i read a [TS]

  few issues and I liked that I liked how [TS]

  fully developed the universe was that [TS]

  seemed to spring from his head and I've [TS]

  since circle back to it after having [TS]

  marinated much more in Marvel and DC and [TS]

  now and now I even though i went back [TS]

  and read it again [TS]

  I was just kind of blown away by how [TS]

  well thought-out it is it's [TS]

  one of those series where I don't think [TS]

  I'd handed to somebody who's just [TS]

  getting into comics unless that person [TS]

  was like sure i would like to see [TS]

  reconstruction of the hero meet those [TS]

  and comics that sounds like something [TS]

  that slate recommended i should read [TS]

  God's if this was somebody who had been [TS]

  reading comics forever never had never [TS]

  gotten around to it i would why would [TS]

  have us over in a heartbeat and be like [TS]

  here read this because you will be [TS]

  amazed at how many different sources he [TS]

  pulls and how many different conventions [TS]

  this guy effortlessly juggles while [TS]

  managing the crease and it's wholly [TS]

  original so yeah it was definitely not [TS]

  part of my 20-something comic reading [TS]

  experience I'm glad that I came back to [TS]

  it though which like raises an [TS]

  interesting side question which are are [TS]

  are some comic series just better suited [TS]

  to different times of your comic reading [TS]

  career than others but that's a whole [TS]

  other podcast I I think so because I i [TS]

  had fallen away from comics and I i [TS]

  think i discovered this just after our [TS]

  first child was born because i was i was [TS]

  killing time in indianapolis and we went [TS]

  to a comic book store and I'm wheeling [TS]

  them around in the stroller don't know [TS]

  what's this and and kind of the way [TS]

  Marvel's brought you back into comics in [TS]

  Astro City brought me back into reading [TS]

  long series of comics and collecting [TS]

  graphic novels again [TS]

  yeah I as somebody who has read a lot of [TS]

  comics over the years I felt like this [TS]

  was for me like it was speaking to me [TS]

  about the form and it did it did give me [TS]

  some watchman vibes in the sense that it [TS]

  was it was trying to balance more has [TS]

  like to actually since then to when he's [TS]

  done some other stuff like like top-10 [TS]

  hehe caduceus is well aware of all the [TS]

  tropes and is playing them all the [TS]

  difference is that the it's it's much [TS]

  sunnier and fun then watchman is and i [TS]

  think was enough the forward to the [TS]

  first trade he says as much that it was [TS]

  intended to be that way but I feel like [TS]

  I i totally agree i get a lot more from [TS]

  at having seen a lot of different [TS]

  superhero comics over the years and so [TS]

  knowing what he's playing with and what [TS]

  he's saying and and being able to [TS]

  appreciate it on on that [TS]

  their level that he's playing it out i [TS]

  would agree with that so I i should also [TS]

  explain so that the the there are three [TS]

  different runs of Astro City [TS]

  the first was 1995 and the the second [TS]

  was what 1996 they say it was a short [TS]

  run miniseries and then there was a [TS]

  longer run 96 and then there's been some [TS]

  standards committee series in 2003 yeah [TS]

  and then it started in 2013 a monthly [TS]

  series has debuted and continues to be [TS]

  published to this day which means that [TS]

  if you're living on the trades there are [TS]

  13 trades now of Astro City and they're [TS]

  all cooked [TS]

  Oh God again you're costing me money [TS]

  sorry I'm gonna have to pick up so much [TS]

  freelancer so but the ones that we the [TS]

  ones that we wrote it or the one we read [TS]

  were life in the big city and confession [TS]

  that's a good place to start and those [TS]

  are both available in print and [TS]

  digitally I think life in the big city [TS]

  just got a reprint recently so those are [TS]

  all those are all coming back out now [TS]

  start at the beginning the Jason smell [TS]

  method i think so this is where the [TS]

  siracusa method but i might be why not [TS]

  even yeah I don't always go for the [TS]

  Syracuse method but with this even [TS]

  though the ecology are you get the [TS]

  beginning does not get a name would be [TS]

  that is the recommended but even though [TS]

  it's an anthology and you could [TS]

  theoretically dip in at any point it's [TS]

  just so much richer when you start from [TS]

  the beginning there's so many little [TS]

  things that pay off later [TS]

  sure it's it's more fun when you get [TS]

  them early and go oh will he ever come [TS]

  back to it and yeah he was the answer is [TS]

  almost always yes i would think the [TS]

  other thing that struck me and rereading [TS]

  it the first time I encountered after [TS]

  Astro City was back in the late nineties [TS]

  it it was already being collected by the [TS]

  time [TS]

  Chip and I started reading it but ship [TS]

  had gotten me back into comics after a [TS]

  long long time of not reading them by [TS]

  way of Sandman so I was already open to [TS]

  different and other arm serialize [TS]

  storytelling in graphic format [TS]

  and for me Astro City as you said [TS]

  there's a strong watchman vibe although [TS]

  even I watched i read watchmen after i [TS]

  read Astro City if i remember correctly [TS]

  but Astro City has the benefit of not [TS]

  being a single story line if i [TS]

  understand correctly watchman was always [TS]

  intended to be that one run one story by [TS]

  Alan Moore here [TS]

  music has the time to really develop [TS]

  these characters much more than the [TS]

  snapshots that we learn bit by bit [TS]

  during watchman we have the character [TS]

  development happens with the story here [TS]

  there's whole issues devoted to [TS]

  essentially character development or [TS]

  developing the world of showing [TS]

  different bits and pieces different [TS]

  viewpoints are so being able to take [TS]

  your time in developing this alternate [TS]

  as we said alternate universe on where [TS]

  the superhero tropes are there but can [TS]

  be upended can be changed can you know [TS]

  go in any direction that he wants on was [TS]

  really attractive see I don't get the [TS]

  watchman by um and and I understand [TS]

  whether it's the time I understand why [TS]

  but when I was rereading especially [TS]

  vol.1 it seems like music has infinite [TS]

  amounts of compassion for his characters [TS]

  and I and there's there's i'll look I [TS]

  love watchman don't get me wrong [TS]

  um and I i think that there is a great [TS]

  howling humanism at the heart of Morris [TS]

  work but he is pretty pitiless when it [TS]

  comes to his characters he's really [TS]

  unsentimental as to their motivations [TS]

  and who they are I think for me that the [TS]

  watchman thing happened partly because [TS]

  of the undercurrent of questioning the [TS]

  superheroes I mean you have this entire [TS]

  subplot especially in the second volume [TS]

  that we all read of you know basically [TS]

  the population just sort of you know [TS]

  turning on the heroes and questioning [TS]

  you know either [TS]

  why are you doing this you're hurting us [TS]

  or why aren't you doing more you're not [TS]

  protecting us enough [TS]

  and there's a lot of that questioning [TS]

  and coming apart at the seams sort of in [TS]

  watchmen for me and that's where I saw [TS]

  the parallel I see a lot of connections [TS]

  there to me because there's all the [TS]

  questions of like you know if we [TS]

  actually had super-powered people [TS]

  wandering around what with all the [TS]

  problems be like that wouldn't just be a [TS]

  panacea right what was funny about vol.2 [TS]

  as i read that and I thought this is [TS]

  just showing you how badly Margo but [TS]

  marvel bungled the Civil War plotline [TS]

  both in condone and the movies like the [TS]

  whole time i was reading this I thought [TS]

  this is so much more plausible the way [TS]

  it unfolded and the reactions of the the [TS]

  reactions of the super-powered you know [TS]

  the vigilantes and the superheroes and [TS]

  all that like the way they respond in [TS]

  the way the crowd responds in the way [TS]

  one thing naturally leads to another [TS]

  makes so much more sense than civil war [TS]

  as a comic book or civil war as a movie [TS]

  ever did and it predates it by by quite [TS]

  a few years too so it's not like the [TS]

  people who wrote Civil War were unaware [TS]

  of the options they had what i mean i-i [TS]

  had avoided watchman for years and I [TS]

  went up reading watchmen after a sister [TS]

  city as a result I don't like watchman [TS]

  my love aster city i could see that I'm [TS]

  with Tony I do feel like there are there [TS]

  are there are vibes there they're also i [TS]

  mean references to Marvel's I mean maybe [TS]

  young reporter story in the first trade [TS]

  is is so cool very clearly by the same [TS]

  guy who wrote Marvel's I i could I see [TS]

  that residence in there too because he's [TS]

  making similar sort of comments you've [TS]

  got the old heroes that's like oh well [TS]

  there's a past generation heroes you've [TS]

  got the whole thing about are we going [TS]

  to have are our heroes register that had [TS]

  a little of the vibe i would say it's [TS]

  like it in some ways but it's also [TS]

  diametrically opposed to others because [TS]

  it is a very different kind of view of [TS]

  the world than Alan Moore brings to it [TS]

  even though they're trotting on the same [TS]

  source material essentially the [TS]

  anthology part of this also I found [TS]

  fascinating the fact that that we get to [TS]

  see that you know there's the story [TS]

  about the the the young reporter and [TS]

  that leads to which is to flashback that [TS]

  that's a really great little short story [TS]

  we learn about the Samaritan who is your [TS]

  Superman [TS]

  figure and he's always rushing from [TS]

  place to place and we we find out that [TS]

  he's got a secret identity that's very [TS]

  clever because it allows them to close [TS]

  the closed and locked the door and then [TS]

  go save the world and then just kind of [TS]

  popped back out like oh yeah I'm going [TS]

  to lunch and then continue to save the [TS]

  world and we we kind of that then [TS]

  there's an issue later we're where we uh [TS]

  there's almost like a little [TS]

  intervention between this Superman [TS]

  analog in the Wonder Woman analog where [TS]

  they're both like you people are really [TS]

  busy you should take you should go out [TS]

  on a date because you placing you [TS]

  lighten up a little bit and and rather [TS]

  than just having a story about his back [TS]

  of his origin story we learned his [TS]

  origin story as he's devoting it on a [TS]

  date [TS]

  yeah yeah which is creating such a [TS]

  sucker for anthologies though period [TS]

  like I love the Robert aspirin thieves [TS]

  world for the for the same reason [TS]

  um yeah edited by george RR martin if [TS]

  you at the inn and jason i have both I [TS]

  think talked in the past about the [TS]

  wildcards anthologies from so this was [TS]

  like right up my alley and what I liked [TS]

  about the two selections we had was the [TS]

  first the first trade is an anthology [TS]

  where you begin to get pieces of this [TS]

  world and how it hangs together and when [TS]

  I love about the first one is it [TS]

  balances civilian perspectives with the [TS]

  perspectives of the people who you know [TS]

  are our heroes are the people who want [TS]

  to invade the plan also they're all [TS]

  parts of the society you know [TS]

  yeah they are and what I love about [TS]

  confession is how it's one long arc that [TS]

  rewards people right pay attention [TS]

  through the first to the first [TS]

  collection and it hangs together as a [TS]

  story beautifully and still keeps adding [TS]

  all sorts of backgrounds and little [TS]

  hooks for stuff that you hope will come [TS]

  up in subsequent volumes to like I [TS]

  really love the crossbred yeah yeah i [TS]

  love you i almost Twilight Zone episode [TS]

  kind of thing which is the one about the [TS]

  guy who discovers the secret identity of [TS]

  one of the superheroes and heaps of a [TS]

  jack-in-the-box and heaps he just sort [TS]

  of accidentally sees him take off his [TS]

  mask and he has no idea what to do and [TS]

  in place through all the scenarios where [TS]

  everybody knows a criminal and it always [TS]

  ends up with him getting killed and he [TS]

  ends up at the end just taking a bus out [TS]

  of town [TS]

  Alaska yeah just a minute it's just [TS]

  added such as I mean I will you wait for [TS]

  Rod Serling to stand on the corner is [TS]

  the bus pulls away and say this poor [TS]

  little man didn't know what to do with [TS]

  this information he can keep it to [TS]

  himself in the twilight zone it was all [TS]

  that kind of feel it's so great to have [TS]

  that versatility [TS]

  I love had also basically shoots the [TS]

  origin story of villains in the kneecaps [TS]

  to because in comics a lot there's now [TS]

  that i know your identity i can ruin [TS]

  your life and this guy is like I have [TS]

  this information and it's literally [TS]

  going to get me killed there's no way [TS]

  responsible for me and it's a great [TS]

  there's another great a story that is a [TS]

  single-issue anthology story which is [TS]

  about the the there's the the place [TS]

  that's up against the mountain right in [TS]

  Astrakhan shadow have said a lot of [TS]

  Cheryl right place to live and it's [TS]

  about about a woman who lives there and [TS]

  works in the city and her parents kind [TS]

  of think that she's gonna leave them [TS]

  and.and she--and and we learned this is [TS]

  how we learn about shadow hill on the [TS]

  fact that they have like special awards [TS]

  and precautions because there's strange [TS]

  creatures that lurk there at night [TS]

  Eldridge it powers our our play and [TS]

  everyone's like yeah that's ok that's [TS]

  the thing introduces the mystic side the [TS]

  fathead that this this universe happily [TS]

  like just like a lot of other comic [TS]

  universes happily mixes you know science [TS]

  fiction vs metahuman vs in our advanced [TS]

  science versus mysticism and this is the [TS]

  this is the story that introduces that [TS]

  hey there's a mystic side to this [TS]

  universe and does it very well [TS]

  yeah and and that story ends with an [TS]

  unexpected ending which is that after [TS]

  all of this and and the woman whose are [TS]

  our viewpoint character it's sort of [TS]

  exerting her independence and and she [TS]

  she does what her parents wanted to do [TS]

  which is keep her life on you know in [TS]

  her neighborhood instead of going back [TS]

  out into the downtown of this city and [TS]

  that was I that kind of blew me away [TS]

  because it wasn't exactly what I did not [TS]

  expect to happen so just great i also [TS]

  like matter because that's where it [TS]

  starts planting seeds of the anti-hero [TS]

  sentiment like that this woman this POV [TS]

  character sees Winged Victory the Wonder [TS]

  Woman analog while she's riding with us [TS]

  going into town and the people on the [TS]

  bus some of them are grumbling about you [TS]

  know how she's like a cult leader and [TS]

  that sort of thing and then others like [TS]

  don't you dare she [TS]

  working for us so it's like that far [TS]

  back these seeds of people disagreeing [TS]

  about the role of the superheroes in in [TS]

  this universe is already there and you [TS]

  also get to meet the Fantastic Four [TS]

  analog in that world to the first family [TS]

  that the first family that could be any [TS]

  family didn't get it at first and then I [TS]

  saw one of the with a higher guy one of [TS]

  the cover art want to cover things where [TS]

  there's the world like a lizard orange [TS]

  lizard guy but he totally yeah is the [TS]

  thing right a legally distinct different [TS]

  maze except for yeah yeah it's it's it's [TS]

  pretty it's pretty great and what I [TS]

  really liked about that story was [TS]

  showing the stratification of the [TS]

  bubbles that sort of the surrounding [TS]

  radiate out and that's the thing that [TS]

  they come back to in Astro City [TS]

  confession when the person who becomes [TS]

  the ultra boy [TS]

  first comes to Astro City and you find [TS]

  out how insular and how weary capes and [TS]

  vigilantes tend to be and how even among [TS]

  that class there are people that are [TS]

  like there's a reason why there's the [TS]

  regulars and I just like i love how [TS]

  thoughtful how thoughtfully constructed [TS]

  this world is like there's not a single [TS]

  detail that doesn't make sense or or [TS]

  isn't relevant in some way later I [TS]

  really love that that that that that [TS]

  thoroughness in world-building yeah i [TS]

  mean the two of the things that I love [TS]

  in anything good [TS]

  well let me try that again to the things [TS]

  that are in common with all of the books [TS]

  and movies and things that I just love [TS]

  beyond reason they surprised me and they [TS]

  are very well thought out and very well [TS]

  you know again that that kind of world [TS]

  building and and he does that time and [TS]

  again I i can't remember another book [TS]

  where he gets surprised as often as this [TS]

  yeah you know if I if I could only take [TS]

  one comic series to a desert island to [TS]

  this would be at now I love that I love [TS]

  that issue with the young woman who [TS]

  lives on shadow hill because it's also [TS]

  great examination of the immigrant [TS]

  experience to or you know or or how one [TS]

  of the unique things about living in the [TS]

  city of people often think about urban [TS]

  existence is being pretty cosmopolitan [TS]

  there's a pretty healthy mixture [TS]

  exchange of ideas and of course people [TS]

  who live in cities [TS]

  eat a different types of ethnic food [TS]

  every week and go different vessels and [TS]

  it also points out that there are people [TS]

  who are pretty much committed to the [TS]

  exact opposite experience and for their [TS]

  kids there's a huge tension between you [TS]

  know the the strong cultural [TS]

  identification versus having the same [TS]

  kind of flattened out cosmopolitan urban [TS]

  lifestyle that that they may see or [TS]

  among their peers are having the [TS]

  workplace and I thought this is this is [TS]

  actually kind of a complication [TS]

  you should have people read if you're [TS]

  ever doing like a class on on the urban [TS]

  that the immigrant experience in America [TS]

  because I don't know abuse its personal [TS]

  histories and I don't know what his [TS]

  background is but he really seems to [TS]

  capture the tension well between e [TS]

  between generations or between you know [TS]

  people's attitudes towards the place [TS]

  where they live and I thought it's [TS]

  really nuanced for comic yes was giving [TS]

  me all kinds i've recently my husband [TS]

  and I and our son went to New York City [TS]

  for a vacation and you know the the same [TS]

  idea i'm fairly certain that beauty [TS]

  pulled from more than New York that [TS]

  there's probably several different [TS]

  cities that he sort of pulled from to [TS]

  create the idea of Astro City but still [TS]

  as you said all of these different areas [TS]

  of the working class neighborhood the [TS]

  immigrant neighborhoods the shiny [TS]

  beautiful downtown all of these [TS]

  different areas on the first trade [TS]

  paperback in the back there's like a [TS]

  special section where they include some [TS]

  of the maps and the drawings as they [TS]

  were putting together the city also i [TS]

  admit the only one I actually caught was [TS]

  kirby but all of these names of streets [TS]

  or landmarks of neighborhoods all harken [TS]

  back to Golden Age earlier comic artists [TS]

  mhm so that was a really cool touch away [TS]

  for him to pay homage but yet even [TS]

  reading through these and thinking you [TS]

  know I'd have flashes of you know the [TS]

  New York experience of the fact that you [TS]

  know some of the friends that we visited [TS]

  will talk about how you know they almost [TS]

  never went to you know x neighborhood or [TS]

  why neighborhood because they had their [TS]

  own area that was there bubble there [TS]

  their world their their neighborhood was [TS]

  right there and they didn't have a new [TS]

  need to go farther and setting it up [TS]

  this early with the shadow hill episode [TS]

  helps make the later developments in the [TS]

  second volume with the with confession [TS]

  more believable as the serial killer [TS]

  starts attacking shadow hill resident [TS]

  right and there's then instantly this [TS]

  divide of you know for most of the rest [TS]

  of the city not our problem [TS]

  it's those weirdos it's those crazy [TS]

  people you know what will let other [TS]

  people handle it that helps build the [TS]

  tension that the alien invaders take [TS]

  advantage of to create even more [TS]

  division to discredit the superheroes so [TS]

  that they can try to lead up to invasion [TS]

  on it all felt very real [TS]

  yeah I agree yea even as you had [TS]

  eldritch as you said Eldridge beings [TS]

  guardian of the neighborhoods and [TS]

  vampires and I'll inhale Ian talk about [TS]

  creepy guardian for for shadow hill it's [TS]

  the end man and it's so he's got like a [TS]

  like a noose around his neck and like a [TS]

  burlap sack over his head and he floats [TS]

  around and yet he's like the beloved [TS]

  neighborhood landmark like everybody who [TS]

  lives there is all hey man hey hey but [TS]

  you know don't look at me they not to [TS]

  him they don't expect him to look back [TS]

  yeah right i like when they do the the [TS]

  during the alien invasion and they do [TS]

  the check-ins with all the different [TS]

  cities throughout the world and they [TS]

  showed in every city has kind of their [TS]

  their resident yeah [TS]

  many of them locally themed gotten [TS]

  ridiculously low Chicago's the [TS]

  untouchable yes [TS]

  yeah you're skyscraper the Boston [TS]

  silversmith but you know but after city [TS]

  is it is the place with all the you know [TS]

  with more superheroes per square mile [TS]

  than anywhere else so so i have to admit [TS]

  when i read through confession and the [TS]

  penny drops for me as to what exactly [TS]

  was going on I actually set out loud [TS]

  re spoiling a book that's like 20 years [TS]

  old this point or do I have to because [TS]

  like I I said holy crap to me Batman a [TS]

  vampire and [TS]

  I was just like I was literally and like [TS]

  I literally stop and just took a moment [TS]

  to let that wash over because it's one [TS]

  of them most like you have this [TS]

  Cathedral that is basically the the [TS]

  Winchester Mystery House of of of [TS]

  consecrated buildings from the way it's [TS]

  described and then you have again you [TS]

  have Batman and he's a vampire in a [TS]

  priest and it and he you know he gets a [TS]

  little sidekick the altar boy and it [TS]

  just feels like this this is amazing [TS]

  this [TS]

  oh my god whoever writes bad like [TS]

  probably cried into her pillow for a [TS]

  week over not having thought of this [TS]

  first cuz i'm just taking a break [TS]

  well and in in Batman would have had to [TS]

  have been in elseworld whereas here it's [TS]

  just the story [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah the vampire bat man it's [TS]

  always gonna be good and an altar boy is [TS]

  it is an actual adult which is why it [TS]

  also makes sense to is he's a young [TS]

  adult and he's got his own you know [TS]

  orphan thing going on but he's a [TS]

  grown-up and so that takes away all [TS]

  whole lot of the eyebrow reason you're [TS]

  like really Batman is running around [TS]

  with a very young teenage boy solving so [TS]

  many single teenager I think it's still [TS]

  intentionally somewhat unsettling and [TS]

  obviously aspect only adds to it i mean [TS]

  yeah the choosing the name altar boy for [TS]

  your sidekick that's significant I know [TS]

  I know right now is wait for it [TS]

  this is a pretty spotlight world I i [TS]

  want to haha but still it's a little bit [TS]

  is I admit a little bit of I raising but [TS]

  they do depict him as a young man and [TS]

  not a teenager so it's not quite as [TS]

  quickly as it could be [TS]

  yeah right you're looking like 18-19 [TS]

  number in there but yeah it's like the [TS]

  the Deacon I mean yes it's ok you can [TS]

  have you could have an adult sidekick [TS]

  but just there's something about altar [TS]

  boy it just sounds right [TS]

  I just appreciate how gradually things [TS]

  are introduced right i like it doesn't [TS]

  he's not on anyone else's schedule right [TS]

  like we will get a mention of a [TS]

  character many many issues of you know [TS]

  that this is the Confessor gets [TS]

  mentioned in the the alien bug guys like [TS]

  you know basically his list of the [TS]

  important heroes to be aware of and he [TS]

  doesn't appear until many issues later [TS]

  yeah and it's so it's not like we need [TS]

  to set something up now so we can use in [TS]

  the next issue so that it can be a big [TS]

  thing [TS]

  the issue after that Ryan that then we [TS]

  can be done with it it's like no there's [TS]

  just this big world there's lots of [TS]

  little things going on various [TS]

  characters are wandering through and [TS]

  doing stuff and I just I appreciate that [TS]

  is it feels like there's all this stuff [TS]

  and it's not just there because we [TS]

  needed to be there [TS]

  it's like now there's all this stuff is [TS]

  all the stuff is happening in the world [TS]

  yeah and to follow on that that that not [TS]

  only is there the luxury of time that [TS]

  you see it gets in creating this world [TS]

  but there's also the fact that you know [TS]

  he's not constrained by typical [TS]

  superhero tropes something that occurred [TS]

  to me as I was reading at this time [TS]

  around is the fact that he chooses his [TS]

  point of view characters in such a way [TS]

  that something a storyline that would be [TS]

  like the big storyline it would be like [TS]

  a346 issue arc uh come culminating in [TS]

  this massive climax and in Astro City [TS]

  it's almost like it's in the background [TS]

  the alien invasion thing um you know it [TS]

  gets introduced and what the fifth issue [TS]

  of the first trade with the Bridewell [TS]

  character who is an advanced spy for [TS]

  this for these aliens and you know at [TS]

  the end he decides yes i'm going to call [TS]

  them and they're going to come and [TS]

  invade and that feels like it gets [TS]

  dropped in favor of the Samaritan [TS]

  victory getting a date and then you've [TS]

  got this totally new character coming in [TS]

  from the outside traveling to Astro City [TS]

  who wants to get to know these [TS]

  superheroes he's not looking to become [TS]

  one at that time he just wants to you [TS]

  know be around them but then [TS]

  circumstances happen he gets noticed the [TS]

  Confessor takes him on as his sidekick [TS]

  and the events that are driving the [TS]

  problems the unrest in the city we learn [TS]

  later on were being caused by the aliens [TS]

  taking advantage of the shadow hill [TS]

  issue and then the giant invasion you [TS]

  know once the aliens are revealed and [TS]

  the Confessor dies and all the [TS]

  superheroes have to come together but [TS]

  that's not the focus [TS]

  yeah you get this background report of [TS]

  what happens in the invasion and then [TS]

  there's like an oh yeah of course we [TS]

  want the entire battle with Oliver [TS]

  superheroes against an alien invasion [TS]

  fleet is a single page i'm not getting [TS]

  its getting late for panel it's a single [TS]

  page that begins with in the end of [TS]

  course we won that's the first line in [TS]

  that on that page and i read that and [TS]

  thinking to myself you know this is this [TS]

  is the thing we've we've done episodes [TS]

  about big events before you have these [TS]

  you have these huge scale events where [TS]

  it's just you know massive carnage and a [TS]

  billion different characters are [TS]

  fighting and as a reader I generally [TS]

  find it uninteresting because you've [TS]

  lost you know unless you're focused on [TS]

  on specific characters it ends up just [TS]

  being kind of like huge scale action and [TS]

  although it sounds really great as an [TS]

  idea from page to page it's actually [TS]

  kind of boring and I saw this and I i [TS]

  was sort of gleeful I was like yeah four [TS]

  panels and we beat the aliens done move [TS]

  let's go back to the story and it's like [TS]

  it's a small world of a of heroes 2 [TS]

  because you've got oh it's the [TS]

  Kookaburra down and Canada Australia and [TS]

  I think that's the real thing in atlanta [TS]

  and then it's the birds-of-paradise in [TS]

  rio de janeiro and you know the real [TS]

  things without wears a red suit and he's [TS]

  got a script on his units on my run to [TS]

  write and liking in its bubbles or [TS]

  something and then they have trolls up [TS]

  in up in Scandinavia and I was just [TS]

  delighted by the respectful attention [TS]

  pain to civic identity there it was it [TS]

  was it was like so much more [TS]

  it felt so much more fun than you know [TS]

  having we have a Russian character boys [TS]

  law [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah yeah and similarly the [TS]

  other big thing in the second volume of [TS]

  the shadow hill thing gets resolved in a [TS]

  page it's like after the alien invasions [TS]

  over and that's done there's one more [TS]

  murder by the serial killer and then [TS]

  whatever for whatever reason the [TS]

  hangman's figured out what's going on [TS]

  you have this one big page of the Hanged [TS]

  Man in with your giant more like the [TS]

  leader yeah and that's resolved and you [TS]

  know and it's all focused through a [TS]

  Brian the altar boys yea you know own [TS]

  growth you know the it's in the [TS]

  background because we are focusing on [TS]

  him as a character growing it to a point [TS]

  where he steps up and he's apparently [TS]

  going to be the new confessor and he [TS]

  finally understands and forgives his [TS]

  father right right which i think it's i [TS]

  think it's really good use of you point [TS]

  to that we uh and he's very consistent [TS]

  music is with the way Brian refers to [TS]

  his father and tells the story of his [TS]

  father this way he starts by saying his [TS]

  father was a doctor and PE didn't like [TS]

  make sure people paid and they owed him [TS]

  and then he died and he died and they [TS]

  had all of these debts and everything [TS]

  was ruined for Brian and he and he hated [TS]

  everything and now he's coming to the [TS]

  big city and and when you get to that [TS]

  moment where he really kind of fights [TS]

  with his with his mentor with a [TS]

  confessor the confessors comment about [TS]

  his father is because you're worse than [TS]

  my father uses I I your father sounds [TS]

  like he was a great guy I wish I could [TS]

  have met him and it's like you realize [TS]

  you realize you're reading this that [TS]

  yeah you know we've been I mean I i read [TS]

  that he was being angry with his father [TS]

  right but it's like the narrative is [TS]

  very consistent about where with brian [TS]

  brian has a lot of anger toward his [TS]

  father but it's really jarring when the [TS]

  Contessa just out and says you know no I [TS]

  think your dad was great and it and it [TS]

  takes Brian another long period of time [TS]

  before you can really come to terms with [TS]

  the fact that his father was a good man [TS]

  and and although he you know sort of [TS]

  ended up in a putting his family in a [TS]

  difficult place he was he was being [TS]

  selfless by saving people like a [TS]

  superhero might exactly the parallel [TS]

  there is just so elegant it is it's [TS]

  really well done and you you see you [TS]

  know he's a young kid and he has to go [TS]

  through the ESN like work through his [TS]

  anchor and then grow up and realize what [TS]

  what the end of the reality of the [TS]

  situation wasn't and there's time taken [TS]

  because that one goes over multiple [TS]

  issues there's you get the time to watch [TS]

  Brian go from being his first day in the [TS]

  big city to and the end being a hero in [TS]

  the big city on his own [TS]

  it's a more plausible transformation [TS]

  then then anything I've seen in the DC [TS]

  Universe i'm going to say harking back [TS]

  to sidekicks you get pushed into [TS]

  therefore no just not name names or [TS]

  anything [TS]

  nowhere mean [TS]

  anyway when Grayson but I it's this is [TS]

  just such a thoughtful book and like i [TS]

  said earlier there's a huge amount of [TS]

  compassion that goes through it because [TS]

  when i read that when i went back and [TS]

  read the first issue with the Samaritan [TS]

  and then reread it i just felt so [TS]

  exhausted and so bad for this poor guy [TS]

  he he's never the eighth there there is [TS]

  literally nothing in his life thanks to [TS]

  look forward to accept more of the same [TS]

  and it's not going to stop until he dies [TS]

  like there's just no way he's ever going [TS]

  to be able to retire and that's horrible [TS]

  well I mean this is business the [TS]

  argument this is the argument about [TS]

  Superman right is yeah if if you taking [TS]

  an hour to read a book means that you [TS]

  don't stop a damn from bursting [TS]

  somewhere that kills five thousand [TS]

  people [TS]

  what do you do you ever read a book then [TS]

  or do you are you literally going all [TS]

  the time and that's the story of the [TS]

  Samaritan he is he can't bear to live [TS]

  through that moment where he doesn't [TS]

  save somebody because he he's taking [TS]

  time off and the irony here and they say [TS]

  this is like there are all these other [TS]

  superheroes [TS]

  there they go out on the date because [TS]

  they're the everybody else is basically [TS]

  conspired to say we will mind the store [TS]

  while you guys go out on a date just [TS]

  please do it where you're really hard to [TS]

  be around take some time right yeah it's [TS]

  interesting cuz music actually tackles [TS]

  the Superman thing in on one of my [TS]

  favorite Superman stories to date the [TS]

  secret identity for issue series he just [TS]

  where you know it's it's legitimately in [TS]

  New Yorker writer named Clark Kent who [TS]

  somehow it does have powers and [TS]

  basically makes a devil's deal with the [TS]

  US government to work with or for them [TS]

  over the course of his adulthood but by [TS]

  the end of the series that was like we [TS]

  have superheroes coming out of our ears [TS]

  at this point we really don't need you [TS]

  and so to have that everyone to have [TS]

  that pushed back again with the [TS]

  Samaritan it makes me it makes me think [TS]

  that music has a very definite idea over [TS]

  like the psychological toll of being [TS]

  someone like Superman or being someone [TS]

  like my winged victory [TS]

  I'm and and that the idea is that if you [TS]

  want the pace that's presupposed in [TS]

  other books you would be kind of a [TS]

  record lunatic one of the other or [TS]

  possibly supernatural like the Hanged [TS]

  Man but i want to ask um I especially [TS]

  least an inch in about one of the [TS]

  aspects of winged victory that i thought [TS]

  was really interesting is that in that [TS]

  in that date they have a very [TS]

  interesting debate she and submit [TS]

  Samaritan where he basically says what's [TS]

  your strategy about who you save right [TS]

  because they're talking about he's [TS]

  obsessed with saving everybody and and [TS]

  she says well you know I'm I my goal is [TS]

  to be independent and to look out for [TS]

  women and that that's what I'm that's [TS]

  what I'm focusing on and he any kind of [TS]

  pushes back on her and says well you [TS]

  know what if there was so there was a [TS]

  guy dying in a woman dying and you could [TS]

  save one of them but not the other you [TS]

  would say the woman she's like yeah [TS]

  that's what I do and I I thought I kept [TS]

  waiting for that moment where I was like [TS]

  what is going on and in fact he just he [TS]

  just walks the line so beautifully in in [TS]

  letting both of those characters not [TS]

  entirely except where the other one is [TS]

  coming from but but letting them walk [TS]

  through that and I just I what what did [TS]

  you think of of winged victory and her [TS]

  like she she is a she is explicitly a [TS]

  feminist superhero this is she's going [TS]

  to use her powers for feminism that is [TS]

  her thing I i think it's fascinating [TS]

  I like that I like that you took Wonder [TS]

  Woman to the logical extreme because in [TS]

  the books wonder woman is pretty cagey I [TS]

  mean oh she comes from an all-female [TS]

  island and she's devoted and so on and [TS]

  so forth but they've always been really [TS]

  careful with Wonder Woman respecting all [TS]

  life and and and I think it's because [TS]

  you can't have a character like that in [TS]

  DC who says yeah you know I mom [TS]

  yeah i'm watching out for ladies first [TS]

  without provoking like some big crybaby [TS]

  fan backlash but what I like about this [TS]

  is the way she lays out her case is um [TS]

  she's like look there's a lot of [TS]

  systemic there's a lot of the system is [TS]

  stacked against women and statistically [TS]

  speaking women are more likely to be the [TS]

  victims of this kind of stuff [TS]

  why would i not do this and it [TS]

  absolutely makes sense because the way [TS]

  Samaritan season is all victims [TS]

  your equal and he's kind of ignoring [TS]

  whatever built-in inequality there maybe [TS]

  and in the Astro City universe and that [TS]

  is actually where she starts from is by [TS]

  taking a look at the built-in [TS]

  inequalities and who has more advantages [TS]

  here advantages and what is she couldn't [TS]

  love the playing field and I thought it [TS]

  was I thought it was great to have her [TS]

  lay it out so calmly and so and and with [TS]

  such determination of purpose [TS]

  yeah it's a really neat contrast of [TS]

  philosophies because she's not only [TS]

  decided that you know her focus is going [TS]

  to be women first if she's got to save [TS]

  people she's gonna start saving women [TS]

  first but she also backs it up we find [TS]

  out that she operates this whole network [TS]

  of what started out as shelters for [TS]

  women who needed shelter shelter from [TS]

  whatever domestic violence or getting [TS]

  away from parents who have for whatever [TS]

  reason and then when she saw that the [TS]

  women were beginning to depend on her [TS]

  too much she turned these shelters [TS]

  essentially into schools teaching these [TS]

  women's self-defense teaching them [TS]

  skills teaching them what they needed to [TS]

  be independent on their own which is why [TS]

  she gets sort of the occult tag from [TS]

  some of the people who aren't looking [TS]

  closely at what she's doing out in the [TS]

  population so she's she's trying her [TS]

  best to back up what she's doing and set [TS]

  it up so that she's not needed as much [TS]

  on the other hand you know the poor [TS]

  Samaritan in it he's as she puts it you [TS]

  know he looks it he looks at it in a [TS]

  matter in matter of time [TS]

  the maximum number of people i can [TS]

  rescue with the time on given and for [TS]

  him it can be something huge like [TS]

  stopping a tsunami on the coast of the [TS]

  Philippines or getting a cat down from a [TS]

  tree for a girl it doesn't matter if it [TS]

  is on his way if it is where he can do [TS]

  something about it he does it [TS]

  there's also the neat bit of the fact [TS]

  that he makes time even though he knows [TS]

  it's costing lives somewhere in the [TS]

  world when people want to honor him when [TS]

  people want to give him that banquet or [TS]

  hand in that plaque thanking him for his [TS]

  service he does it because he learned if [TS]

  he tries to ignore it [TS]

  people got upset with him and angry with [TS]

  him for not letting them ignore [TS]

  watch what he does so he makes the time [TS]

  to essentially be the perfect superhero [TS]

  even though it is the wearing him down [TS]

  the wing victories of brush everything [TS]

  reminds me sort of a movie a she-devil [TS]

  where oh where the hell yea where the [TS]

  spurned what no because this burn wife [TS]

  has left more or less powerless one her [TS]

  husband leaves her because he gives her [TS]

  next to no assets he makes he takes the [TS]

  children [TS]

  she's left to work ascot job and I [TS]

  although the focus of all the [TS]

  hierarchies basically i'm gonna ruin his [TS]

  life and she goes around and she does it [TS]

  she does it by built by starting a temp [TS]

  agency for all of the women in the world [TS]

  who who have been treated as disposable [TS]

  have been discarded or overlooked or [TS]

  ignored and she empowers them and she [TS]

  helps them create a network of a [TS]

  professional network of women who can [TS]

  help each other to and um when your [TS]

  victory begins talking about yeah we [TS]

  have self defense classes we have ways [TS]

  to teaches women to be economically and [TS]

  physically independent and confident of [TS]

  themselves in the world I'm like oh my [TS]

  god semester rose and I i find it [TS]

  interesting that that's an idea that [TS]

  actually comes up again and again in a [TS]

  in a lot of different iterations on how [TS]

  to empower women and it basically comes [TS]

  down to giving women the tools to take [TS]

  care of themselves [TS]

  I find it really interesting however [TS]

  that comes up in the comics because [TS]

  that's not something you see a whole lot [TS]

  of in comic book culture and all like [TS]

  you very rarely see a concerted effort [TS]

  among women to organize for themselves [TS]

  or for their own benefit unless it's [TS]

  going to be like some sort of silver age [TS]

  where the Amazons her hero overthrew the [TS]

  Justice League because women is over [TS]

  whatever and then you're like oh god [TS]

  sixties but it's still it's pretty it's [TS]

  it's a pretty radical insertion and [TS]

  comic book culture you don't I can't [TS]

  recall seeing much like it in [TS]

  um either Marvel or DC or even when I [TS]

  think about it you know the wild storm [TS]

  and image stuff of their own of the turn [TS]

  the turn into the 21st century either [TS]

  and music just sneaks it on there and [TS]

  ate [TS]

  I want to throw in a couple other things [TS]

  i just want to mention it but this feels [TS]

  very scattershot but it's like this is [TS]

  an anthology series it's just there's so [TS]

  much did to discuss so I wanted a couple [TS]

  of things I want to mention one is the [TS]

  sense of history there's a nice scene in [TS]

  the very beginning of the the confession [TS]

  storyline where the kid who brian who at [TS]

  that point is just working in a bar it's [TS]

  his first job in Astro City it says [TS]

  who's that over there and it in the [TS]

  bartender who used to be himself a [TS]

  superhero explains that it's Iron Horse [TS]

  the human locomotive he's been around [TS]

  since 1862 which I really love and he's [TS]

  like oh I thought eres was the first one [TS]

  is like I was the first one to get [TS]

  headlines but the Hanged Man the old [TS]

  soldier and we see the old soldier in an [TS]

  another story and the and Ironhorse the [TS]

  Iron Horse kid and i love that the idea [TS]

  that oh these guys go back you know [TS]

  we've been having superhuman characters [TS]

  all the way back in time and the old [TS]

  soldier is almost like a he's he's a [TS]

  little captain america like but he's [TS]

  also like the spirit of soldiers from [TS]

  all times and he liked appears when he's [TS]

  needed which is really interesting too [TS]

  so i liked i thought it was a really [TS]

  nice touch to do not only have like this [TS]

  rich world but this rich history that [TS]

  extends you get the sense you know way [TS]

  back than anybody even knows and i just [TS]

  love that that sense of depth back there [TS]

  it makes me believe in this in this [TS]

  world just with those little tidbits and [TS]

  i'll share one other one that I that I [TS]

  like and then and then maybe you can all [TS]

  chime in with things that you want to [TS]

  mention that we haven't gotten to yet [TS]

  which is i love that issue with the new [TS]

  the new reporter or the who gets the [TS]

  story of x from the old the old old guy [TS]

  the old editor who used to be a reporter [TS]

  and so it goes back in time we don't see [TS]

  a lot of things we get we get introduced [TS]

  to the silver agent who is a definitely [TS]

  a Johnny hand some kind of superhero but [TS]

  he's introduced as the soup the silver [TS]

  agent the poor doomed silver agent and [TS]

  then his fate is not revealed in any of [TS]

  these stories it's just there you know [TS]

  he's doomed the whole time and then the [TS]

  other part of the end is so great [TS]

  is that it becomes this funny journalism [TS]

  story at the end where the Edit where [TS]

  the young reporter gets back to the the [TS]

  paper and they're like nope you don't [TS]

  have any evidence you were the only at [TS]

  because he goes to another dimension and [TS]

  sees this great battle and comes back [TS]

  like nope it's just the facts me [TS]

  rewrites nope still not nope nope nope [TS]

  and in the end the punch line is that [TS]

  the only story that they allowed him to [TS]

  print is trolley delayed by shark just [TS]

  be anything [TS]

  yeah yeah I'll and and yet again to talk [TS]

  about comic book issues you should you [TS]

  should teach people in class [TS]

  this should absolutely be something that [TS]

  is taught in a school yes it's true it's [TS]

  like you know you you have no there are [TS]

  no other witnesses and you have this [TS]

  fantastic story and even if it's true [TS]

  and he eventually does prove that it's [TS]

  true after a long time by talking to [TS]

  some of the heroes who were there it's [TS]

  too late at that point but it's like [TS]

  what are the facts what what is provable [TS]

  and it's completely deluded down too [TS]

  well I return from that dimension on the [TS]

  trolley tracks along with the one dead [TS]

  shark man yeah yeah sure [TS]

  shark delayed the trolley so that's the [TS]

  students know by Leiter made me laugh [TS]

  and also toxic but i think when i had [TS]

  the journalism Benson I love about that [TS]

  story is how he does eventually like [TS]

  prove the story and so it tells you that [TS]

  in the back of his mind there was some [TS]

  professional presents like I'm going to [TS]

  make sure i can tell the story at some [TS]

  point like you just know the first time [TS]

  he got a property witnesses like now how [TS]

  can i is there a way i can publish that [TS]

  but oh my gosh now it sits on that such [TS]

  a great issue I yet they refer to the [TS]

  the silver agent and I don't know about [TS]

  you but i had to pretty much physically [TS]

  talk myself out of going on amazon and [TS]

  order in the next class just think [TS]

  that's a brother [TS]

  they're up to 13 now and the newest now [TS]

  that it's back now that's advert ago [TS]

  they there on like issue 37 it'sit's I [TS]

  think maybe the the longest sustained [TS]

  run they've had its green and not to [TS]

  spoil anything but we do eventually find [TS]

  out how he became poor and doomed [TS]

  yeah what else we're anything else that [TS]

  uh that the people want to met mention [TS]

  about astro city other than its it's [TS]

  great i mean i-i was I had no background [TS]

  and I [TS]

  I wanted to say that i've really enjoyed [TS]

  it i thought it was really great i love [TS]

  the character designs [TS]

  oh yeah oh damn homie there because they [TS]

  managed to be wholly original while also [TS]

  suddenly simultaneously plant paying [TS]

  homage to their analogs in DC or marvel [TS]

  as the case may be Winged Victory being [TS]

  an especially nice case of that like I [TS]

  think it's great that they've managed to [TS]

  get her and evoke like the Grecian ideal [TS]

  of winged victory and you're at the same [TS]

  time the first restaurant Wonder Woman [TS]

  and part of it is that you have alex [TS]

  ross working on a lot of the character [TS]

  designs yeah so it's got that style it's [TS]

  got that real classic look and of course [TS]

  he steeped in history all these things [TS]

  anyway of of the real things that [TS]

  they're making analogues of and it's [TS]

  just so smartly put together and one of [TS]

  the things that struck me reading at [TS]

  this time around [TS]

  just the incredible scope of characters [TS]

  there are so many characters that we [TS]

  only get a we get not as like there's [TS]

  there's the big ones we get a lot of [TS]

  Samaritan we get a lot of the Confessor [TS]

  of of winged victory and then there's [TS]

  this whole second layer of characters [TS]

  the honor guard and that sort of thing [TS]

  that we get bits and pieces of we get a [TS]

  decent look at like jack-in-the-box but [TS]

  we never get his origin we never get how [TS]

  he started and we're not sure what [TS]

  happened to him at the end of the second [TS]

  trade there's the the implication is [TS]

  he's been killed but we don't know and [TS]

  so many other characters the you know [TS]

  we've got jack in the box and then [TS]

  crackerjack who is just the most bonkers [TS]

  um booster goldish character played by a [TS]

  young bruce campbell I believe but yeah [TS]

  um and you know in the background we [TS]

  have others like the speedster is mph [TS]

  and you know we get almost nothing of [TS]

  him other than the fact that he's a team [TS]

  player and he's the one who sort of [TS]

  spearheads getting Samaritan and winged [TS]

  victory out for their date for one night [TS]

  you know Cleopatra I guess sort of big [TS]

  barda is she's kind of you know but [TS]

  above all of all these things you get [TS]

  all these glimpses of all these [TS]

  different heroes that you know through [TS]

  guys you said 13 trades for all of these [TS]

  characters to be developed and explored [TS]

  and played with i want to mention [TS]

  crackerjack i love crackerjack he is he [TS]

  is introduced it easy he's lazy he's [TS]

  totally takes credit for everything he's [TS]

  not he's not not a hero he is a hero but [TS]

  he will also talk you into sharing the [TS]

  credit with him and then taking all the [TS]

  credit and he does it again and again [TS]

  and apparently he's not completely [TS]

  worried about evidence [TS]

  yeah just like grab some folks up and [TS]

  dumped in front of the police officers [TS]

  say here you go it's not my problem [TS]

  right and and he doesn't seem to have a [TS]

  secret identity so much as he has a [TS]

  various like run of identities that he [TS]

  takes temporarily and then kind of [TS]

  throws away and he's got the little [TS]

  curly mustache thing just whole lot just [TS]

  hilarious character because it's not [TS]

  that he's not a hero [TS]

  he's not a fraud it's just that he is an [TS]

  awful person [TS]

  Darrell's plan is to create it was he is [TS]

  in some ways it's a it's his grading [TS]

  personality that triggered the alien [TS]

  invasion [TS]

  oh yeah part this is completely [TS]

  insignificant completely in company guy [TS]

  and he does just one thing and that just [TS]

  sets off that the alien spot my record [TS]

  collection i have to say as much as that [TS]

  as much as I love a spider-man I i saw [TS]

  some spider-man and Cracker Jack right [TS]

  he's like he's kinda there's a spider in [TS]

  there he talks a good game but uh that's [TS]

  about all but it's beautiful it's a [TS]

  beautiful thing [TS]

  so he was one of my favorite little [TS]

  things and jack in the box i want to [TS]

  mention and we will get too close to [TS]

  check the box but he's a he's a it's a [TS]

  ridiculous looking a ruling [TS]

  ridiculous-looking character but uh but [TS]

  i think is very interesting in the in [TS]

  his interactions with a guy who [TS]

  discovered the secret identity and I [TS]

  thought that was kind of a it just yeah [TS]

  great character designs [TS]

  nice stuff they'd be on the bridge well [TS]

  thing where there's the spy alien spy he [TS]

  gave me almost like a wild cards five to [TS]

  go back to the george RR martin yeah [TS]

  anthology was like that kind of [TS]

  character because there's this fifties [TS]

  pulpy alien invasion thing going on [TS]

  that's uh that's you know it's 50s pulp [TS]

  sci-fi as much as it is the Silver Age [TS]

  comics stuff not just all all all good [TS]

  stuff just all and not and not again if [TS]

  you're somebody who has a read this but [TS]

  his red you know watch man or something [TS]

  like that the difference is that [TS]

  watchman set the table although i love [TS]

  watch men for a lot of really dark unfun [TS]

  grinds through superhero tropes and this [TS]

  is not that at all not even Glenn and [TS]

  more is telling one story and he has one [TS]

  grim idea that he wants to get across [TS]

  where is this is such a wide range of [TS]

  styles [TS]

  yeah yeah totally wide open yeah that [TS]

  you can get something as well crafted as [TS]

  the Confessor you know born of a border [TS]

  priest becomes a vampire but you know [TS]

  he's going to be a good nails all this [TS]

  time higher bid yeah where is he wears a [TS]

  cross on his shell on his chance to get [TS]

  her stuff he doesn't hurt [TS]

  yeah it's awesome yeah but it's just two [TS]

  points to remind him and I'm flip side [TS]

  sin in like the very last there's a cota [TS]

  issue at the end of the collection for [TS]

  confessions where you have a care of [TS]

  villain that place with time and causes [TS]

  these interdimensional things and the [TS]

  care and the superhero that stops him is [TS]

  basically a 1940's football player and [TS]

  his little sidekick the basement asking [TS]

  baseball area slender it they get kind [TS]

  of the corniest possible you know that [TS]

  was that was one that made me think the [TS]

  tick let that a particular character [TS]

  yeah the kind of over-the-top [TS]

  ridiculousness of it but but it worked [TS]

  it was beautiful it's sort of like i [TS]

  mean i was i was saying this earlier [TS]

  that this is my favorite of the [TS]

  alternate heroes and troops unless you [TS]

  count the tick [TS]

  I mean this is like good stories i love [TS]

  the tick but but this is like well [TS]

  written the point of the tenure is [TS]

  basically jokes [TS]

  yes yeah right madman [TS]

  the scene version of this yes thank you [TS]

  bad magazine is a good way to put it [TS]

  because it's basically i'm gonna sing [TS]

  for the punch line every time and it's [TS]

  like this in innocence you even when it [TS]

  when it catches up to that and and their [TS]

  moments even through the lady folks were [TS]

  some of our villains go go a little [TS]

  maybe make a little over that line [TS]

  unfortunately yeah and when it it [TS]

  reminds me of a line that used to [TS]

  describe in the writers room for the [TS]

  adventures of brisco county jr that [TS]

  would be up trust me trust me out they [TS]

  wanted it to be just under over-the-top [TS]

  which makes a lot of sense haha this [TS]

  actually achieves it [TS]

  yeah it is hard with those characters [TS]

  that are kind of kind of a commentary on [TS]

  other characters kind of a joke i think [TS]

  this does it that the better you do [TS]

  better than the tech does it better than [TS]

  a venture brothers tries to walk that [TS]

  line a lot with a lot of us actors [TS]

  online is clearly influenced a lot by [TS]

  the tick this does it well I mean it is [TS]

  strange i read this pretty early on in [TS]

  my comics reading a career career is [TS]

  that a word and I'll pass time you know [TS]

  i think you're sorry and costs vary got [TS]

  it got into coming but that was it may [TS]

  look like not printed out for you okay [TS]

  oh okay put it onto a nice thick paper [TS]

  watchman was one of the first things i [TS]

  read which was very weird to read [TS]

  watchmen and uh and not have a huge [TS]

  background in having reading comics I [TS]

  mean obviously you can't live in this [TS]

  country and not pick up a lot of [TS]

  superhero jargon that's just the world [TS]

  we live in [TS]

  but I read this not too long after and I [TS]

  think I definitely got a lot more out of [TS]

  it coming back and reading it reading it [TS]

  this weekend there's a lot you know [TS]

  there's there's all the superhero tropes [TS]

  is familiar with from all the other ways [TS]

  that we experienced superheroes and [TS]

  unity and movies and video games but now [TS]

  i get that added layer of you know of [TS]

  several hundred issues of superhero [TS]

  comics that I'm not consumed too so I [TS]

  interrupt this podcast to tell you [TS]

  something that's not quite an ad [TS]

  although it is self-promotion the [TS]

  incomparable will be at the now hear [TS]

  this podcast festival in anaheim [TS]

  california this October we're not going [TS]

  to be there alone will be there with [TS]

  dozens of your favorite podcast public [TS]

  radio comedy storytelling and us onstage [TS]

  all in one place tickets are on sale now [TS]

  it sort of like a comic-con but [TS]

  for podcast it's a weekend jam-packed [TS]

  with live performances and special [TS]

  events for podcast fans Marc Maron will [TS]

  be there with his producer to share [TS]

  favorite moments from WTF their live [TS]

  performances a great podcast like how [TS]

  did this get paid the moth criminal the [TS]

  gist comedy bang bang [TS]

  I'm very excited hello from the magic [TS]

  tavern one of my very favorite podcast [TS]

  is going to be there and hey one of your [TS]

  favorite podcast is going to be there [TS]

  it's us lots of people from the [TS]

  incomparable are coming to anaheim for [TS]

  this so register today at now hear this [TS]

  fest dot-com now here hcar this fast [TS]

  dot-com check out special ticket options [TS]

  reserved seating VIP express lines and [TS]

  other stuff meet-and-greets stuff like [TS]

  that it's october 28 through 30th in [TS]

  anaheim california the happiest place on [TS]

  earth [TS]

  so go to now hear this fest dot-com for [TS]

  more info and hopefully we will see you [TS]

  there in late October before we go I [TS]

  wanted to add go around in case because [TS]

  this happens sometimes in case there's [TS]

  something that's a comic that you've [TS]

  been reading lately that you would like [TS]

  to plug you like to promote that you've [TS]

  enjoyed it's a segment that I like to [TS]

  call what are we reading although again [TS]

  the president the president fool you [TS]

  something recent that you'd like to [TS]

  mention it's always nice to do that Lisa [TS]

  do you have anything that you're reading [TS]

  or have read lately that you want to get [TS]

  out there in the world for people to [TS]

  check out said i'm pretty sure i talked [TS]

  about atomic robo at our last comic book [TS]

  club tonight you may have but hey it's [TS]

  always good to promote atomic robo rate [TS]

  which is hilarious and the writer the [TS]

  writer that is brand Clevenger that [TS]

  spelled CLE VI n ger and I went and got [TS]

  his copy of adventures and the Infinity [TS]

  Gauntlet which was a what he did for [TS]

  Marvel and long story short pick it up [TS]

  because the doctor do lines alone [TS]

  hilarious comedy gold I was laughing and [TS]

  laughing and spider-man just gets it [TS]

  coming and going this it's really funny [TS]

  and and again i want to point out the [TS]

  doctor dooms lines or comedy called [TS]

  especially when he call Shotgun on the [TS]

  spaceship so totally recommend that [TS]

  I'm another series that I've picked up a [TS]

  little bit is secret avengers i just [TS]

  finished vol.1 yeah which yep which I [TS]

  really enjoyed and so plan on diving in [TS]

  and spending more money on that too [TS]

  and the other thing and this is off the [TS]

  superhero reservation but I've been kind [TS]

  of going on a retro indie indie comic [TS]

  strips terror as it were and I just [TS]

  finished reading Alison Bechdel Zhan the [TS]

  essential dykes to watch out for which [TS]

  spans just years and years and years and [TS]

  what is you know I get the cast of [TS]

  thousands so it's a lot like reading [TS]

  your tip your typical you know Tyson [TS]

  flights comic book and what's really [TS]

  interesting about it is watching a how [TS]

  the the plot lines and the priorities [TS]

  and the characters lives shipped from [TS]

  the mid-eighties all the way up to 2007 [TS]

  went back to help with the the strip on [TS]

  hiatus seemingly permanently so and it's [TS]

  interesting because her artistic fairly [TS]

  consistent and when she doesn't update [TS]

  the characters looks as though it's [TS]

  always tied into two storylines and I'm [TS]

  want to talk about another female [TS]

  cartoonist / comic comic artist who [TS]

  doesn't get a whole lot of attention [TS]

  these days but her name is Mary Ann [TS]

  Handley and I just read an illustrator [TS]

  graphic memoir she did called the [TS]

  shiniest jewel a family love story which [TS]

  is her story of a failed adoption Russia [TS]

  followed by a successful adoption Russia [TS]

  all while her father is dying and it's [TS]

  just it's so elegantly drawn and written [TS]

  with such warmth and such heart is [TS]

  really just a beautiful book and it's [TS]

  available used on amazon it didn't get I [TS]

  don't think you got the attention that [TS]

  it should have but it's just a great [TS]

  afternoons read i really loved it and [TS]

  that the last few pages have just really [TS]

  stuck with me [TS]

  so a plus plus we have read again as a [TS]

  matter of fact so Tony what are you [TS]

  I i haven't picked up any new series [TS]

  recently so i don't know if i have [TS]

  anything super exciting too [TS]

  the ad i just read yesterday the latest [TS]

  volume of miss marvel i just read the [TS]

  latest volume saga [TS]

  yeah so still reading lots of Hellboy [TS]

  and hellboy spin-offs that that's Tony [TS]

  alright that's the song that dive n [TS]

  that's the beauty of David any comics [TS]

  that you've been reading lately that you [TS]

  want to mention sure [TS]

  well I've been catching up on the ester [TS]

  city i'm master trades that i have not [TS]

  had not read a city that's hot [TS]

  had not read a city that's hot [TS]

  that's great we should do I know with [TS]

  some incentive for years some kind of [TS]

  city of Astros you say is the Houston [TS]

  Astros Jason and I've been rereading the [TS]

  Darwin cooks adaptations of the Parker [TS]

  novels by Richard stark really Donald [TS]

  westlake which are gorgeous gorgeous in [TS]

  period adaptations of these these really [TS]

  hard nor heist novels great work great [TS]

  heart and and maybe the best adaptation [TS]

  of those books in any medium I mean [TS]

  there's been plenty of movies based on [TS]

  several of them now go to go to the [TS]

  Darwin cookbooks and I've been reading [TS]

  catching up on ms marvel and the the [TS]

  last thing that i bought as a collection [TS]

  was spider-man and the x-men written by [TS]

  elliott kalyan which possibly has my [TS]

  very favorite comic panel of all time [TS]

  and you'll know it when you see it all [TS]

  right Shannon anything to recommend [TS]

  unfortunately I'm behind on my reading [TS]

  I've got a stack of things that you all [TS]

  have been recommending Brubaker's fade [TS]

  out and stuff like that i need to read [TS]

  that like several titles that have been [TS]

  recommended recently but this is the [TS]

  itinerary but Lisa tells me segment I [TS]

  subscribe to that mailing list please [TS]

  read the shinies jewel please give Mary [TS]

  Ann Handley some money at such great [TS]

  book but i did stumble across hardback [TS]

  copies of the adaptation of stephen [TS]

  king's the stand on in a comic book [TS]

  store they were all like half off except [TS]

  that I grabbed up the entire run except [TS]

  for the last one that's the 1i still [TS]

  need to track down so I've been you know [TS]

  rereading that the stand is one of my [TS]

  all-time favorite novels ever ever ever [TS]

  and its really interesting having of [TS]

  course read the original book and read [TS]

  Stephen King's expansion of his original [TS]

  book we put all the stuff you have to [TS]

  cut out back in arm and of course there [TS]

  was the miniseries a number of years ago [TS]

  and now to read the graphic novel [TS]

  version on and to see what things get [TS]

  emphasized and what things get put away [TS]

  is [TS]

  a rather interesting exercise in medium [TS]

  and what things get directed in which [TS]

  way when you change medium so that's [TS]

  been an interesting experiment reading [TS]

  through those and for me I'm going to [TS]

  recommend one I I to have sort of slow [TS]

  down i'm reading some of the same stuff [TS]

  is always always have talked about [TS]

  before but i found now I knew this came [TS]

  out but it's now coming out on Marvel [TS]

  unlimited it's a mini series of five [TS]

  issue i think miniseries called x-men [TS]

  colon worst X man ever [TS]

  this is written by Max Bemis who is the [TS]

  lead singer and creative force behind [TS]

  the punk band say anything which is [TS]

  actually I'm a big fan of that band and [TS]

  his pizza his songwriting but it's [TS]

  hilarious [TS]

  it's a guy obviously this is a guy who [TS]

  has spent a lot of his life reading [TS]

  x-men comics and this is the story of a [TS]

  guy named bailey kid named bailey who [TS]

  discovers he's a mutant and his power is [TS]

  really dumb and single-use because it [TS]

  will kill him if he uses it and yet he [TS]

  has to live around all the x-men in the [TS]

  in the school and what does that mean [TS]

  for him how do you live life when you're [TS]

  a mutant but not a good one uh and it's [TS]

  it's very funny and silly and I and it [TS]

  looks great i think michael walsh is the [TS]

  artist but next be mrs. worst x-men ever [TS]

  check it out especially if you're on [TS]

  Marvel unlimited okay but we're yeah [TS]

  check it out you you may find it maybe [TS]

  why he absolutely why it turns out he [TS]

  has to live at the Savior school is [TS]

  horrible and also laugh-out-loud funny [TS]

  so yeah check it out [TS]

  all right I think we've reached the end [TS]

  and let me thank my panelists for for [TS]

  talking about Astra city and also for [TS]

  controlling me into reading after city [TS]

  because I wouldn't have done it if it [TS]

  weren't for this podcast I'm very happy [TS]

  that I did chance on it thanks for being [TS]

  here [TS]

  always a pleasure David lower thanks for [TS]

  continuing to agitate for Astro City [TS]

  until finally we did it and and now i [TS]

  can take a bus ride to Alaska so you [TS]

  know and that's good yeah Tony sindelar [TS]

  Batman the real Batman is not a vampire [TS]

  uh probably not okay thank you very much [TS]

  at all right [TS]

  yeah but doesn't mean he couldn't be one [TS]

  someday he spends a lot of time around [TS]

  bats so it works really hard you get [TS]

  rabies from this probably more likely [TS]

  rabbit actually well you know a lot of [TS]

  people trace of vampire mythology two [TS]

  forms of rabies [TS]

  that's a fact you didn't ask for good [TS]

  job Tony and Lisa Schmeisser thank you [TS]

  thank you had a great time [TS]

  alright thanks every other for listing [TS]

  we will see you next time goodbye [TS]

  goodbye nerds [TS]

  kurt busiek Kurt Kurt it's pronounced [TS]

  hurts it's pronounced ok [TS]