44: A Little Bit More Sad


  [Music] [TS]

  you're listening to hypercritical a [TS]

  weekly talkshow ruminating on exactly [TS]

  what is wrong in the world of Apple and [TS]

  related technologies and businesses [TS]

  nothing is so perfect that it can't be [TS]

  complained about by my co-host John [TS]

  siracusa I'm Dan benjamin today is [TS]

  november 25th 2011 this is episode [TS]

  number 44 we want to say thanks to [TS]

  united pixel workers calm mailchimp.com [TS]

  and reinvigorate reinvigorate by the way [TS]

  is providing our bandwidth for this [TS]

  episode simple affordable heat maps and [TS]

  web stats check them out at reinvigorate [TS]

  net use coupon code 5x5 and you had 10% [TS]

  off life of your order how you been [TS]

  just dandy dandy huh how was your [TS]

  Thanksgiving this is the day after [TS]

  Thanksgiving 2011 it's November 25th [TS]

  mm-hmm [TS]

  special days going for a run four people [TS]

  here in the united states america they [TS]

  abreast are you are you resting yeah i'm [TS]

  not going to work well that's good yeah [TS]

  I mean that's something mm-hmm is [TS]

  usually what I don't know people know [TS]

  this or not but you are you're [TS]

  frequently taking you know your lunch [TS]

  break here you're away from work and [TS]

  you're here to record and that's usually [TS]

  that's your mo that's right run the [TS]

  middle of a workday crazy would you do [TS]

  for Thanksgiving anything exciting [TS]

  anything special no just the usual what [TS]

  is the usual stuffing mashed potatoes oh [TS]

  sweet potatoes pies you know whole nine [TS]

  yards [TS]

  I didn't host it myself this year Oh [TS]

  where'd you go kind of just went to a [TS]

  friend's house it's kind of a relief not [TS]

  that at all that cooking but the [TS]

  downside is that you don't have all the [TS]

  leftovers also you're you you've got [TS]

  nothing to eat today nothing special [TS]

  other than I guess I got some month or [TS]

  is like you know that the shared here's [TS]

  some leftovers here to take home kind of [TS]

  leftovers but it's not the same as when [TS]

  you make it yourself and you have all [TS]

  the leftovers are the majority of the [TS]

  leftovers [TS]

  what did you guys do uh we we had out of [TS]

  here [TS]

  we had one guest my brother-in-law was a [TS]

  guest and of course we've got the the [TS]

  two kids one of whom is not you know [TS]

  eating solid food because she's a little [TS]

  tiny baby but they was still quite you [TS]

  know quite equating quite an ordeal [TS]

  trying to you know because you've got [TS]

  you've got a kid you get a guest you've [TS]

  got lots of different items to prepare [TS]

  it was a production it's enough you know [TS]

  once a year or doing that but then you [TS]

  kind of got to do it again at Christmas [TS]

  right yeah not as bad as the turkey [TS]

  though the turkeys always a big thing [TS]

  because you have more options for [TS]

  Christmas dinner like you could do a ham [TS]

  I guess yeah much easier no to cook the [TS]

  turkey what do you do with a hand how [TS]

  does that work usually you buy the ones [TS]

  that already cooked in you just [TS]

  basically heating it up nothing you can [TS]

  do that with a turkey no come on now you [TS]

  go to Whole Foods you get there they're [TS]

  you know free-range pasture turkey and [TS]

  that's all or anything it's already [TS]

  cooked well it's it's what they call [TS]

  pre-roasted so it's not like it's it's [TS]

  like you're getting it in a you know [TS]

  like a heated thing like a take at it [TS]

  you know a drive-thru or something you [TS]

  still have to heat it up and that's not [TS]

  good oh it's very good big thumbs down [TS]

  on that take my word for a big huge [TS]

  thumbs up in fact the thumb that is [TS]

  doing the thumbs up is so supreme that [TS]

  it just destroyed your entire thumb [TS]

  that's how that's how much of a thumbs [TS]

  up that I'm giving this you go to Whole [TS]

  Foods and you get one of their [TS]

  pre-roasted turkeys it will be the best [TS]

  turkey you've ever had how do you feel [TS]

  about tofurkey I don't even get me [TS]

  started [TS]

  all right and keep in mind keep in mind [TS]

  that was Leo I was of no it's not that [TS]

  because it's made from tofu which is [TS]

  made from soy which is not paleo that's [TS]

  not paleo no soy is the antithesis of [TS]

  paleo maybe second to gluten and sugar [TS]

  um but no and keep in mind I was a [TS]

  vegetarian for many years and I would I [TS]

  still never ate a Tofurky alright me [TS]

  neither but alright just trying to put [TS]

  some boundaries on your mm-hmm food [TS]

  tastes good free [TS]

  so you're ready to start I thought we [TS]

  had well you know start start yeah so [TS]

  well I'm definitely ready then all right [TS]

  considering I thought that we had [TS]

  started and in fact we had not started [TS]

  then I would definitely say Murray this [TS]

  this ain't no back to work [TS]

  it's not like we start and then we [TS]

  started and we really start the show [TS]

  gets better as that show goes on and we [TS]

  need the problem is you get a warm [TS]

  Merlin up he ki he starts cold and he [TS]

  thinks he's doing you know he thinks [TS]

  he's doing all right and then you [TS]

  compare that to 20 minutes later he's on [TS]

  fire you start out and you're pretty [TS]

  much level-headed the whole way through [TS]

  or whatever the equivalent of that is [TS]

  for you all right [TS]

  then we have two small items that follow [TS]

  up the best and worst kind of follow up [TS]

  what is the best numbers kind of follow [TS]

  it was the best of follow ups it was the [TS]

  worst of follow ups yeah [TS]

  it's pronunciation follow up oh it is [TS]

  the worst probably it's always the worst [TS]

  if you don't care about these things but [TS]

  it's also the best okay all right so I [TS]

  don't even know why this is in my notes [TS]

  here but it is so I assume I said the [TS]

  name of a burner VI ng e the science [TS]

  fiction author that I say that on the [TS]

  show at any point hmm it seems like the [TS]

  only reason I can imagine it would be in [TS]

  my notes is that I settled on this show [TS]

  well anyway it's in my notes so I'm [TS]

  going to go to so that science fiction [TS]

  author girl in a fan of his last name [TS]

  spelled VI ng E is apparently pronounced [TS]

  vinji and not Vinge Blanche said in my [TS]

  head through my entire life and many [TS]

  times out loud VI ng is VIN G I've got [TS]

  that like secondhand from people who [TS]

  have talked to the man himself and [TS]

  millions all the people who are also [TS]

  convinced that's the way you say his [TS]

  name because they probably heard him [TS]

  talk or seen a pronunciation guide or [TS]

  read it on Wikipedia but ever vinji that [TS]

  kind of blew my mind because it was a [TS]

  one name I didn't think I was [TS]

  mispronouncing but apparently I was and [TS]

  the next one that I know I did mention [TS]

  on this show a couple of times and [TS]

  someone I felt compelled to write in [TS]

  after hearing it on multiple shows marry [TS]

  me mangle it is the video game [TS]

  originally a PlayStation 2 video game [TS]

  and now remastered for the PlayStation 3 [TS]

  the name of the game is spelled ICO [TS]

  and I've always been pronouncing that as [TS]

  ICO I don't know why I've chosen to [TS]

  pronounce it that way but that's just [TS]

  the way keep No [TS]

  I've been saying it apparently that's [TS]

  wrong well this is from Alex montine I'm [TS]

  sorry Alex if I'm mispronouncing your [TS]

  name mu n tean and he didn't really [TS]

  clarify if he lives in Japan speaks [TS]

  Japanese or just learned it or whatever [TS]

  but apparently the name in on the [TS]

  Japanese game is two characters and [TS]

  first character is pronounced like a [TS]

  like the letter e like E and the second [TS]

  character is pronounced ko so it should [TS]

  be eco not Aiko and what he says about [TS]

  it is uh in Japanese it's a made-up word [TS]

  as far as he knows it says it doesn't [TS]

  have any meaning that's why it's written [TS]

  in katakana which is the sole very used [TS]

  for most foreign names or loan words and [TS]

  Japanese this I think is a couple of [TS]

  phonetic alphabets but katakana is one [TS]

  of them and there's one pronunciation [TS]

  for each symbol no matter what the [TS]

  context so it's not like English where [TS]

  the same letters can be pronounced [TS]

  twenty different ways depending on where [TS]

  they are completely silent or whatever [TS]

  it's so it's very clear in Japanese [TS]

  these doing ours it's eco instead of [TS]

  Eiko now I still am unsure what the game [TS]

  manufacturer Sony or whatever intends [TS]

  for the American pronunciation of this [TS]

  game today clearly this is what the game [TS]

  should be called in Japanese but there [TS]

  are many cases where words in English [TS]

  eventually have different pronunciations [TS]

  in the words and other languages and [TS]

  even for products they they will say [TS]

  well you know even though this is how [TS]

  you pronounce it if you're pronouncing [TS]

  your name correctly in French or in [TS]

  Japanese or whatever in English the [TS]

  pronunciation is different [TS]

  ah but it's really difficult to find an [TS]

  authoritative source it like who'd you [TS]

  ask would you ask the game developers [TS]

  well they're all Japanese they don't [TS]

  really care how the game is pronounced [TS]

  in their country would you ask Sony [TS]

  itself maybe they have an official [TS]

  pronunciation I don't know uh so anyway [TS]

  I I will assume that Eco is the correct [TS]

  pronunciation I'm not sure I will be [TS]

  able to stop myself from saying Aiko ah [TS]

  I'll have to help to sleep on that for a [TS]

  while and decide we're going to go [TS]

  that's it for my follow-up to [TS]

  pronunciation topics yeah I really [TS]

  looked through them like this is really [TS]

  all to follow up I have I [TS]

  really have I think these thieves AUB's [TS]

  bio life discussion expunged a lot of [TS]

  fault I think maybe I have a few other [TS]

  items that are related that aren't [TS]

  really follow up but they're just like [TS]

  reader mail or reader questions that I [TS]

  could use to spawn other topics but [TS]

  that's not gonna be today today do [TS]

  remember what our topic is going to be [TS]

  today can you have any guesses hmm nope [TS]

  from a long time ago Microsoft again [TS]

  yeah I'll talk about what else Microsoft [TS]

  those how did we get off of that I think [TS]

  the bio came a bio cannon I was there [TS]

  was two episodes honey before that we [TS]

  were off track on something anyway we're [TS]

  finally wrapping around to it my notes [TS]

  from a month ago are still here uh and [TS]

  interestingly when I was gathering stuff [TS]

  up for it I was reading an article [TS]

  yesterday there was a article that was [TS]

  published on the 19th that is a good way [TS]

  to sort of enter in on this topic an [TS]

  article didn't exist when I originally [TS]

  made my notes but I just add to them so [TS]

  this is an article in Forbes magazine by [TS]

  Steve Denning and it's an article about [TS]

  why companies die and it yeah it's a [TS]

  quote it's quoting from Peggy Noonan who [TS]

  I don't know but uh and then she's [TS]

  quoting from the jobs bio and then Steve [TS]

  Denning the author of this article is [TS]

  talking about both of those things and I [TS]

  assume also promoting his book which is [TS]

  called radical management which I'm [TS]

  missioning ties into all this so the [TS]

  quote from jobs this is from the bio I [TS]

  know I know I said I'm a Microsoft we'll [TS]

  get into the jobs bio but trust me as [TS]

  well as we'll go somewhere this is a [TS]

  quote from jobs from the bio it says how [TS]

  companies die or how they decline or [TS]

  whatever the company does a great job [TS]

  innovates and becomes a monopoly or [TS]

  close to it in some field and then the [TS]

  quality of the product becomes less [TS]

  important the company starts valuing [TS]

  great salesmen because they're the ones [TS]

  who can move the needle on revenues and [TS]

  move the needle is CEO speak for you [TS]

  know you say you've got a monopoly in [TS]

  your field and what companies and wall [TS]

  street want to see is you need to be [TS]

  constantly growing so once you're [TS]

  selling like 90 [TS]

  five percent of the customers it's much [TS]

  more difficult to have the next quarter [TS]

  be like double this quarter or ten [TS]

  percent of audience moving the needle is [TS]

  like how can you how can you show an [TS]

  improvement in our financial results how [TS]

  can you show that our company is doing [TS]

  better than it did last quarter once [TS]

  you've saturated the market the way you [TS]

  can get those last percent is you know [TS]

  is the the company starts hinging on [TS]

  sales people because then you need like [TS]

  salesmen to sell those last percentages [TS]

  you really just make sure you keep [TS]

  reselling and re upping those contracts [TS]

  for whatever it is that your company has [TS]

  a monopoly for and Steve Denning [TS]

  commenting on this he says in the [TS]

  article it's not just the salesmen it's [TS]

  also the accountants in the money men [TS]

  who who searched the firm high and low [TS]

  to find new and ingenious ways to cut [TS]

  costs or even eliminate paying taxes the [TS]

  activities of these people further [TS]

  dispute the creators the product [TS]

  engineers and designers and also crimps [TS]

  the firm's ability to add value to its [TS]

  customers but because the accountants [TS]

  appear to be adding to the firm's short [TS]

  term profitability as a class they're [TS]

  also celebrated and well rewarded even [TS]

  as their activities systematically kill [TS]

  the firm's future so this is same the [TS]

  money men like how can how can we show [TS]

  better results well we're already [TS]

  selling everybody we can possibly sell [TS]

  to let CEO in cut costs let's say we can [TS]

  cut corners on our manufacturing let's [TS]

  see how we can find a way you know two [TS]

  tax shelters for our income and the [TS]

  people who do this end up being rewarded [TS]

  if it's like oh you know the salesman [TS]

  the guys who are you know increasing our [TS]

  revenues each quarter and these money [TS]

  guys and the accountants are finding [TS]

  ways to increase our profits by lowering [TS]

  our cost right so becomes like this [TS]

  weird numbers game uh and Denning calls [TS]

  this playing defense instead of playing [TS]

  offense um and because he's saying any [TS]

  article it's easier to milk the cash cow [TS]

  than to add new value so you're saying [TS]

  well why don't you know so say you get a [TS]

  monopoly in one market why is the [TS]

  strategy then to do all this stuff to [TS]

  you know uh find get the sales people [TS]

  really cranking to make sure you don't [TS]

  lose any of the ground you have and [TS]

  renew those contracts and try to get a [TS]

  little bit more money out of each person [TS]

  each contract and have the accountants [TS]

  figure out how to lower your cost [TS]

  because that'll increase your profit [TS]

  margins just little by little and then [TS]

  reward those people for doing it but [TS]

  that's defense it saying you know oh we [TS]

  got this we've got this thing we've got [TS]

  a good thing going here we've got it a [TS]

  near-monopoly in this market we just got [TS]

  to hold on to it that's playing defense [TS]

  instead of playing offense which is [TS]

  alright that's great we did this thing [TS]

  we're dominant and whatever what are we [TS]

  gonna do next and that's much harder and [TS]

  or scary I've talked about this before [TS]

  as the most important lesson of Steve [TS]

  Jobs that you know he showed the large [TS]

  companies don't have to be you know [TS]

  don't have to play defense don't have to [TS]

  be beholding to shareholders in Wall [TS]

  Street and just do the the defensive [TS]

  things and at the very end of this thing [TS]

  they were talking about why it's easier [TS]

  to it's more difficult to add value than [TS]

  to have cost another reason he lists is [TS]

  that these executives have found ways to [TS]

  reward themselves lavishly as Upton [TS]

  Sinclair noted it's difficult to get a [TS]

  man to understand something when his [TS]

  salary depends on his not understanding [TS]

  it so this is just the worst of the [TS]

  worst where the company starts playing [TS]

  defense the people who get rewarded our [TS]

  salespeople and accountants and all the [TS]

  rewards they reap instead of being [TS]

  folded back into the company because I [TS]

  wouldn't you know what if the company [TS]

  need money for we already know we're [TS]

  doing we have a monopoly in this market [TS]

  or whatever we don't need any money on [TS]

  R&D or to make new products or whatever [TS]

  let's just reward ourselves big bonuses [TS]

  pay off the salespeople you know it [TS]

  becomes a little Club where this company [TS]

  with a monopoly in a field becomes a way [TS]

  to make a small number of people very [TS]

  rich for simply maintaining that [TS]

  monopoly but that's really the worst of [TS]

  the worst [TS]

  that's the ultimate sickness of a [TS]

  corporation right so we're going to talk [TS]

  about what what ails Microsoft obviously [TS]

  I'm leading into this because I think [TS]

  the what ails Microsoft is they well [TS]

  it's not as simple as saying they start [TS]

  playing defense but the similarities to [TS]

  this article this article which by the [TS]

  way I don't think even mentions [TS]

  Microsoft it mentioned like Xerox and [TS]

  IBM and other companies that as the [TS]

  example set of companies this so [TS]

  Microsoft did get a near monopoly on a [TS]

  market or a government certified [TS]

  monopoly if you want to put it that way [TS]

  in the United States on the desktop [TS]

  computing market but did they start [TS]

  playing defense I it can be argued that [TS]

  Microsoft has Microsoft could have [TS]

  written this article and say yes we're [TS]

  aware of all these things we know that [TS]

  we can't just defend we have to play [TS]

  offense we have to try to enter new [TS]

  markets we have to do all these things [TS]

  right so the internet tidal wave memo [TS]

  where Gates it was it came to realize [TS]

  through the input of his subordinates [TS]

  and stuff and just looking around that [TS]

  the internet was a big deal [TS]

  we just really need to turn this whole [TS]

  company around and and get on this [TS]

  internet thing everything has to be [TS]

  about the internet and just you know [TS]

  let's take this big company and turn it [TS]

  and he was the big CEO and he made it [TS]

  happen and he crushed Netscape which I'm [TS]

  assuming he considered a victory not [TS]

  perhaps not understanding a crushing [TS]

  Netscape is not the same as defeating [TS]

  the internet or becoming savvy on the [TS]

  internet they created msn which the [TS]

  money-loser for years because i thought [TS]

  they were fighting AOL AOL wasn't a real [TS]

  enemy to fight like Microsoft has been [TS]

  trying to it hasn't said oh we're not [TS]

  going to endure the Internet we're not [TS]

  going to try to have an online service [TS]

  and we're not going to be into web [TS]

  browsers they've been trying to not be [TS]

  defensive so you can't pin the the [TS]

  sickness describe nazar I'll go exactly [TS]

  on them in that regard and the Xbox and [TS]

  stuff like that someone inside the [TS]

  company says hey I think we should make [TS]

  game consoles because that might be the [TS]

  future of computing because it's all [TS]

  about owning the living room and we have [TS]

  the technology to get into that business [TS]

  and we have PC games let's see if we can [TS]

  adapt that to the Xbox and they lost [TS]

  billions of billions of dollars over [TS]

  many years but certainly you can't say [TS]

  the Xbox is the case of them playing [TS]

  defense right they are playing offense [TS]

  this is just not doing a good job of it [TS]

  all right the in many cases they chose [TS]

  the wrong enemy or they spent a lot of [TS]

  money and were never successful in the [TS]

  case of msn like that's combination they [TS]

  all they chose the wrong enemy and they [TS]

  never really defeated enemy the enemy [TS]

  died of its own natural causes all the [TS]

  while they just lost money trying to [TS]

  attack it so how do I think this relates [TS]

  to what what I think Microsoft problem [TS]

  is the problem is not so much that they [TS]

  were going to be on defense all the time [TS]

  but guys just defend everything we have [TS]

  the problem is that all their offensive [TS]

  strategies in terms of like how we're [TS]

  going to break into a new market how we [TS]

  have to react to a threat so on and so [TS]

  forth that was all well and good but [TS]

  they were a big enough company they said [TS]

  while we do these offensive things oh [TS]

  and by the way we certainly can't do [TS]

  anything to lose what we've built right [TS]

  so they did all this offensive stuff but [TS]

  it was just a given that we must also [TS]

  protect windows in office which are [TS]

  their two big moneymakers obviously we [TS]

  will continue to protect them and we [TS]

  will you know go off on these new [TS]

  initiatives and try to do you know all [TS]

  these different things and try to work [TS]

  on a tablet computer and [TS]

  you know get into the gaming market in [TS]

  the online market and make a web browser [TS]

  you know but of course you know windows [TS]

  and office movie protected at all cost [TS]

  and so that's that's different than the [TS]

  Apple strategy which is go off and do [TS]

  the new thing and if the new thing [TS]

  totally destroys the old thing so be it [TS]

  so the example that would be the iPhone [TS]

  where the iPhone and iOS initiatives [TS]

  were launched at a time when the iPod [TS]

  was a huge percentage of Apple's [TS]

  revenues and they were dominant in the [TS]

  music player market and they didn't say [TS]

  well we're going to make this new iOS [TS]

  thing but of course we have to do [TS]

  everything we can to defend our 70% or [TS]

  whatever it was market share in the [TS]

  music player market of course we need to [TS]

  defend that they said look the our iPod [TS]

  market share revenues profit everything [TS]

  about it is going to start going down [TS]

  and that's okay as long as we're the one [TS]

  cannibalizing ourselves so they didn't [TS]

  do all sorts of bending over backwards [TS]

  and shenanigans to make sure their iPod [TS]

  you know revenues and sales and market [TS]

  share to stay exactly as it was and [TS]

  tried to grow and just defend it to [TS]

  death they said like if it dies dies of [TS]

  natural causes so be it the world has [TS]

  moved on it used to be the music players [TS]

  where where it was at now that a lot of [TS]

  that stuff is being subsumed into cell [TS]

  phones and that's what we're going to be [TS]

  next [TS]

  Microsoft has never done that Microsoft [TS]

  has never said we are going to do this [TS]

  game console initiative and we think [TS]

  that the game console is going to be the [TS]

  platform of the future and the PC is not [TS]

  so we expect game console revenue and [TS]

  profits and sales and everything to go [TS]

  up and we expect PC sales to go down so [TS]

  we're going to start we're going to [TS]

  start cannibalizing our own PC business [TS]

  by like selling people Microsoft Word [TS]

  and Xbox it's now this is a silly [TS]

  example obviously but I'm just saying [TS]

  like giving an example of a product that [TS]

  that Microsoft did produce they would [TS]

  never allow it to do things that hurt [TS]

  its other businesses so that's what [TS]

  that's the thing I have my notes here is [TS]

  that Microsoft has been defined by the [TS]

  fear of losing what it's built all right [TS]

  they they are afraid of losing that big [TS]

  thing they built which is dominant to [TS]

  the desktop operating system ah [TS]

  either that or they've never they've [TS]

  never produced anything they thought [TS]

  potentially could cannibalize their [TS]

  existing [TS]

  business-like you say well the Xbox's is [TS]

  an example what do they make that could [TS]

  possibly cannibalize their existing [TS]

  business maybe they've only introduced [TS]

  products which were not natural [TS]

  replacements for this top pcs of course [TS]

  the desktop PC has been defended because [TS]

  they're defending against other [TS]

  competitors not against themselves some [TS]

  of the chatroom said that the Xbox [TS]

  cannibalize the gaming PC Microsoft [TS]

  never makes money on the gaming PC ATI [TS]

  and NVIDIA perhaps made their money on [TS]

  the gaming PC by selling high-end video [TS]

  cards at large profit involvement [TS]

  margins but that wasn't making Microsoft [TS]

  any money if you played games on your PC [TS]

  which you can continue to do so [TS]

  Microsoft makes money on its windows [TS]

  licenses and the next part I'm going to [TS]

  get to is what Microsoft mostly makes [TS]

  aware though I read no coming from it's [TS]

  not coming from individual PC gamers [TS]

  buying Windows computers for their house [TS]

  Microsoft's cash cows very quickly got [TS]

  tied up into what I call Enterprise [TS]

  entanglements where you sign large [TS]

  numbers of computers to corporations you [TS]

  want to sell them licenses for exchange [TS]

  server for sequel server you want to [TS]

  sell them the dev tools over the making [TS]

  stuff and you want to sell them a [TS]

  license for Windows for every single [TS]

  desktop in this huge thousand two [TS]

  thousand three thousand person huge [TS]

  company they thought they sold Windows [TS]

  in office to corporations and yes home [TS]

  users buy Windows in office too but [TS]

  that's not really a regular recurring [TS]

  revenue where you get subscriptions and [TS]

  really like that server software with [TS]

  the exchange licensing it used to be [TS]

  Pursey licensing for like you know the [TS]

  Windows NT server and the desktops and [TS]

  all that stuff that's where the big [TS]

  money is because then you get you know [TS]

  that you you can't get that kind of [TS]

  money out of interval consumers yes they [TS]

  have that the scale for consumers and [TS]

  they get this you know whatever they get [TS]

  10 20 30 bucks for each Windows license [TS]

  attached to a PC that's sold but they [TS]

  really want that that enterprise income [TS]

  in that tight relationship between [TS]

  Microsoft and the enterprise created the [TS]

  situation where Microsoft was willing to [TS]

  listen to what the enterprise wanted [TS]

  that's why enterprise love them [TS]

  enterprise love the fact that they could [TS]

  buy soft hardware from different vendors [TS]

  and pit them against each other and and [TS]

  they would talk to microphone and say we [TS]

  really want to know we really want this [TS]

  feature and that feature and we want to [TS]

  be able to do remote deployments is the [TS]

  IT department talking to Microsoft not [TS]

  the individual people using computers [TS]

  and corporations obviously ID Department [TS]

  we want centralized control of you know [TS]

  software installation we want to be able [TS]

  to control [TS]

  the internet explorer installations and [TS]

  say but this set the security policies [TS]

  for them then we want to be able to [TS]

  remote update them to new versions and [TS]

  just everything the enterprise wanted [TS]

  for them we want an exchange server with [TS]

  centralized control over the the all the [TS]

  phones we put out so that if someone [TS]

  connects to an exchange server with [TS]

  their mobile phone we want to force them [TS]

  to have a keypad entry coded on their [TS]

  phone so their phone is locked and all [TS]

  that business that relationship between [TS]

  Microsoft and the enterprise made it so [TS]

  that the thing driving the development [TS]

  of Windows wasn't individual consumers [TS]

  at home and it wasn't even people [TS]

  working in their desks and businesses [TS]

  it was the IT department at the large [TS]

  corporations right and so this is a [TS]

  situation that Microsoft got itself into [TS]

  its its most important cash cow is a [TS]

  product being driven by someone other [TS]

  than the end users and that that is [TS]

  always death for your product quality if [TS]

  your product is it you know what is [TS]

  motivating your product development is [TS]

  not the end users like what would the [TS]

  end user like then right away you've got [TS]

  a conflict of interest because you're [TS]

  making things that people aren't going [TS]

  to like but they're forced being forced [TS]

  to use by the our IT department and now [TS]

  Microsoft probably knew it was in this [TS]

  situation what what the thing I want to [TS]

  get into this the heart of what I'm [TS]

  trying to get into in this podcast is [TS]

  not so much where do they go wrong what [TS]

  lessons do we can take for but like sort [TS]

  of an alternate history [TS]

  what could Microsoft's had done [TS]

  differently what if you could go back in [TS]

  time and explain to Microsoft how the [TS]

  future is going to play out and they [TS]

  believed you is all right well so what [TS]

  do we do what do we do what could we do [TS]

  that will prevent the present state of [TS]

  Microsoft Word they've been knocked off [TS]

  their perch is the biggest technology [TS]

  company they say they're seemingly [TS]

  irrelevant in so many businesses they're [TS]

  the struggling to get into nubes you [TS]

  know what can we do to prevent that from [TS]

  happening and the thing I think about is [TS]

  like well well how did Apple sort of [TS]

  turn things around and it's not it's [TS]

  nothing it's not a good scenario to [TS]

  present to the market [TS]

  I go back in time talk to the Microsoft [TS]

  people and say well so here's what Apple [TS]

  did Apple almost went out of business [TS]

  laid off thousands of people lost tons [TS]

  of money went through multiple CP o CEOs [TS]

  uh em was supposedly 90 days from [TS]

  bankruptcy all right and then they [TS]

  brought back their old CEO or they [TS]

  brought in this great guy Steve Jobs and [TS]

  he fired more people and cut more [TS]

  projects and and basically tore the [TS]

  company down it's sort of like the [TS]

  equivalent of an alcoholic hitting [TS]

  bottom right and then he made it picked [TS]

  like one or two you know simplified [TS]

  everything removed tons of products [TS]

  abandoned customers killed entire [TS]

  platforms and then just picked one or [TS]

  two special products he was going to pay [TS]

  attention to like when sched with the [TS]

  iMac and then I mentioned the iPod and [TS]

  put all his is you know weight behind [TS]

  those ah that doesn't sound like [TS]

  something you could sell to Microsoft in [TS]

  1995 you know so but I think that was a [TS]

  key to Apple success like Apple had the [TS]

  luxury of slimming down to near death [TS]

  sizes before Jobs came back and saved it [TS]

  and he saved it by cutting even further [TS]

  you can't tell Microsoft in 1995 what [TS]

  you know what you have to do is destroy [TS]

  your business and make it and make [TS]

  yourself almost go bankrupt and destroy [TS]

  all shareholder value and become like [TS]

  falling off of the fortune 500 maybe [TS]

  falling off the Fortune 1000 and then [TS]

  finally you can you can get yourself in [TS]

  position to be a success in a future [TS]

  that's sort of a non-starter right ah [TS]

  and I think I really do think that if [TS]

  Jobs had come back to an Apple in like [TS]

  1990 or something where they were still [TS]

  making lots of profits selling really [TS]

  expensive Macintoshes it would have been [TS]

  harder for him to have the success that [TS]

  he had because you would have to then [TS]

  convince everybody that we should stop [TS]

  making all this money it's not hard to [TS]

  convince everybody that we should stop [TS]

  doing what we're doing because we're [TS]

  having massive lawsuits if you come in [TS]

  when the company's going down the tubes [TS]

  and you're losing money left and right [TS]

  if you have a strong idea what you [TS]

  should do they'll be willing to do it [TS]

  but if you're coming into a company [TS]

  that's successful like a an apple in the [TS]

  90s or like a Microsoft in the mid-90s [TS]

  still making tons of money you have to [TS]

  be really convincing to come to to make [TS]

  the company say I don't want to make [TS]

  money that way I want to make money a [TS]

  different way uh so here's here's the [TS]

  key lack of will that I think Microsoft [TS]

  the the key McKee mistaken reasoning [TS]

  that Microsoft had no before before you [TS]

  reveal that we get it I know I don't [TS]

  like to interrupt you when you're on you [TS]

  know you're on fire all right and if [TS]

  we've got a do we get a pay some bills [TS]

  are gonna do a sponsor but there's a [TS]

  good one United pixel workers calm you [TS]

  heard about this I have but I'm you need [TS]

  to explain it to me because I don't know [TS]

  what it is yet big name everywhere then [TS]

  the name is everywhere and what these [TS]

  guys do is periodically they come out [TS]

  with some really cool t-shirts will get [TS]

  you one I believe that they consider [TS]

  Massachusetts to be a full-blown State [TS]

  these days so they will they will make [TS]

  one for this what it is is they have a [TS]

  50 states sale very very cool t-shirts [TS]

  there they've done a special run all 50 [TS]

  states and Washington DC and these are [TS]

  really cool t-shirts that have the state [TS]

  printed on them there are American [TS]

  Apparel very high quality and they were [TS]

  originally going to only do it through [TS]

  this week and I said let's let's do a [TS]

  special thing we'll do a discount for [TS]

  5x5 listeners and we'll extend the sale [TS]

  for one more week they said well if we [TS]

  do that we'll it'll be really stressful [TS]

  for us to get it out for the holidays I [TS]

  said well do you want to sell some [TS]

  shirts or not and they said okay let's [TS]

  do it so they're giving 10% off your [TS]

  entire order use coupon code five by [TS]

  five United pixel workers calm they also [TS]

  have a hoodie but all these are printed [TS]

  on the super soft American Apparel [TS]

  things whatever your state is you go [TS]

  there you pick Massachusetts and you [TS]

  will get a Massachusetts shirt so that's [TS]

  what it is United pixel workers calm 10% [TS]

  off your order code five by five [TS]

  don't be also have something where [TS]

  internet celebrities like Mike Montero [TS]

  do design their own shirts and yes yes [TS]

  absolutely Mike Montero has done one I [TS]

  think Zelda Minh has done one so people [TS]

  like that [TS]

  can can be recognized by their for their [TS]

  talents and they will do special shirt [TS]

  but right now they're on this bed but [TS]

  here's the thing I should mention this [TS]

  after this run the 50 states out there [TS]

  gone that's what I was gonna say like if [TS]

  you wanted to get the mic when Tara one [TS]

  tough like that's gone right yeah that's [TS]

  too bad so if you want if you want a 58 [TS]

  shirt move now [TS]

  it's not like they just have a stock of [TS]

  these things and keep them around [TS]

  forever right it is going to end [TS]

  November 29 2011 that's a mere four days [TS]

  from now at 11:00 a.m. is when it ends I [TS]

  don't know why it it's 11:00 a.m. [TS]

  Eastern Time but that's when it's over [TS]

  so go get you go pick out your state and [TS]

  if you want you can get all 50 states [TS]

  and Washington DC and you'll still get [TS]

  10% a lot of t-shirts do you wear [TS]

  t-shirts up there [TS]

  I do we gotta get them to send you a [TS]

  Massachusetts now here's the real [TS]

  question I've asked everybody this this [TS]

  this week but I want to ask you where [TS]

  you were born and raised in is it Rhode [TS]

  Island try again [TS]

  not Massachusetts no it's not New York [TS]

  State somewhere yes okay so would you [TS]

  get New York State or would you get [TS]

  Massachusetts or both if they had a Long [TS]

  Island sure to get that just Long Island [TS]

  you know the important part of New York [TS]

  State but assuming they don't I mean I [TS]

  had to get Massachusetts like that's [TS]

  where I'm spending my adult life right [TS]

  so even though I grew up in Long Island [TS]

  in New York I would go with [TS]

  Massachusetts shirt I think although [TS]

  again having both wouldn't be bad either [TS]

  well there is tempers enough but I'm [TS]

  looking at the Massachusetts one it's [TS]

  not bad [TS]

  everybody loves pixels all right because [TS]

  Marco was talking about something in his [TS]

  show saying what upstate was and right [TS]

  and he was saying that anything is north [TS]

  of where you are in New York that's kind [TS]

  of a a humorous way to describe it but I [TS]

  think there's an actual definition of [TS]

  what upstate is it does get fuzzy around [TS]

  where he lives but basically it's easy [TS]

  to find what upstate is not upstate is [TS]

  not Long Island or the New York metro [TS]

  area and where you draw the line at New [TS]

  York metro area like how far north along [TS]

  the Hudson do you go before you say okay [TS]

  you're out of the New York metro area [TS]

  there is some fuzz around there but it's [TS]

  not that it's not that big of a fuzz [TS]

  strip like [TS]

  somewhere above Westchester around there [TS]

  certain point that there's a lot the [TS]

  line is somewhere in that fuzzy region [TS]

  right but there's the whole rest of New [TS]

  York and that's all upstate except for [TS]

  Long Island and New York metro area so [TS]

  here in Albany who says they're not [TS]

  upstate that bed nation they're upstate [TS]

  why is it bad to be upstate why's there [TS]

  it's not bad it's just like you know [TS]

  there is where is upstate upstate New [TS]

  York or just saying upstate that's [TS]

  that's where it is it seems like where [TS]

  do you live I live in upstate New York [TS]

  well we most people should know where [TS]

  that is with some sort of fuzz around [TS]

  you know where does the New York metro [TS]

  area end as you go north Mountain Hudson [TS]

  but certainly no one's going to think [TS]

  you live in you know Staten Island Bronx [TS]

  or Long Island if you live in upstate [TS]

  New York but Albany is no ambiguity none [TS]

  you know Buffalo anything like that's [TS]

  upstate all right so where was I oh I [TS]

  actually totally lost my train of [TS]

  thought [TS]

  I can even know where I wasn't a note [TS]

  suppose what was I gonna say before the [TS]

  break I was got so interested in these [TS]

  t-shirts I did that's right nothing [TS]

  they're distracted they're very [TS]

  distracting uh well you were taught you [TS]

  were about to reveal it was a big reveal [TS]

  I remember that much there's a big [TS]

  reveal you were gonna give it all away [TS]

  this is the what you've been leading up [TS]

  to for 25 minutes no pressure no [TS]

  pressure all right so I think what what [TS]

  I was getting at with it but the [TS]

  slimming down to near-death sizes right [TS]

  because you had just talked about Steve [TS]

  Jobs coming in and completely beating [TS]

  the beating your company into a [TS]

  different shape than it was in before [TS]

  but it was like almost dead at that [TS]

  point right so the whole thing that room [TS]

  is saying what what could Microsoft do [TS]

  if you went back in Jesse yes that's on [TS]

  another the overall thing with like the [TS]

  individual part miles here so no one [TS]

  wants to go into a company that's making [TS]

  money like gangbusters and change the [TS]

  way they do things but also here does [TS]

  that for remember this the key decision [TS]

  decision in Microsoft's mind like the [TS]

  one thing that you need to change in [TS]

  Microsoft's mind is the idea that then [TS]

  not serving the enterprise IT market or [TS]

  like home PC users or hardware [TS]

  manufacturers everything like that being [TS]

  being so afraid to do things differently [TS]

  than the thing that brought them that [TS]

  big monopoly and the thing that they [TS]

  were afraid of and probably still are [TS]

  afraid of was that if they didn't do [TS]

  that if they didn't if they didn't talk [TS]

  to those IT managers say what do you [TS]

  guys want we'll work with you for the [TS]

  next revision of Windows and you know [TS]

  work with the PC manufacturers and the [TS]

  hardware vendors and everybody you know [TS]

  and Intel and AMD and just like beat [TS]

  serve be the software component of the [TS]

  PC platform and like work with those [TS]

  guys the fear is if that they didn't do [TS]

  that someone else would come and take [TS]

  that and take that business away from [TS]

  them remember when they were super [TS]

  afraid of Linux like oh my god you know [TS]

  we were making these money off Windows [TS]

  license is what Linux is free [TS]

  what if Dell or HP or something suddenly [TS]

  start selling Linux machines and then [TS]

  donate P would do these little dance [TS]

  moves over to the Linux side of things [TS]

  and be all oh yeah we're thinking of [TS]

  making Linux pcs and Microsoft forget [TS]

  all scared okay okay we'll give you a [TS]

  break on one you know that's all this [TS]

  break up the windows licenses this whole [TS]

  dance around like they're always afraid [TS]

  that someone else was going to take that [TS]

  business from and that that fear that [TS]

  fear that if we look if we need to keep [TS]

  doing this Windows an office thing we [TS]

  know what it takes we know what we had [TS]

  to do to win this market we know what it [TS]

  takes to keep this market we need to [TS]

  continue to do what all the all the [TS]

  people all our stakeholders in this [TS]

  market want of us because if we let this [TS]

  go someone else is going to get it and [TS]

  someone else gets it them they're going [TS]

  to be the new Microsoft and they're [TS]

  going to have billions of dollars [TS]

  they're going to have the windows and [TS]

  office cash cows and we'll be nothing [TS]

  right and that's that that fear that [TS]

  that someone else was going to come and [TS]

  eat their their lunch who is the thing [TS]

  that most handicapped the company and [TS]

  probably still continues to have [TS]

  accounts company enough I was back at [TS]

  Microsoft in those days I would have [TS]

  tried to play this out a little bit and [TS]

  say ah so if you don't do this you don't [TS]

  do what this idea vendors want if you [TS]

  don't make these hardware manufacturers [TS]

  happy if you don't if you don't mold [TS]

  your your company and your strategy and [TS]

  all your products around these [TS]

  stakeholders you're not your end [TS]

  consumers [TS]

  if you break we're backward [TS]

  compatibility but the app vendors like [TS]

  all the people who are how to stake in [TS]

  Windows who you currently serve with [TS]

  your things what are you afraid is going [TS]

  to happen who is going to come and take [TS]

  that market from you Linux if they said [TS]

  well what about Linux is this new thing [TS]

  maybe they didn't know or whatever I [TS]

  guess I look I've seen the future Linux [TS]

  is not a threat to you [TS]

  Linux is not going to come in and steal [TS]

  that marker from you because they are [TS]

  just it Linux is not a company it is an [TS]

  amorphous open-source thing yeah they're [TS]

  going to eat your lunch in the server [TS]

  space you're right to be afraid of that [TS]

  but like the desktop where you one you [TS]

  know we we own the desktop and corporate [TS]

  IT and the mail servers know stuff like [TS]

  that I'm actually amazed at how well [TS]

  exchange is held up against the Linux [TS]

  Mail service and for the same reason is [TS]

  that you know it's that's not another [TS]

  company with the strategies is an [TS]

  amorphous group of people working on an [TS]

  open-source product it has its place and [TS]

  it's going to hurt you in business but [TS]

  they're not going to come and take the [TS]

  PC desktop from you they're just not [TS]

  Linux on the desktop is the reason it [TS]

  hasn't happened they are even less [TS]

  capable than you are of doing what [TS]

  customers want and they're also not as [TS]

  capable of doing what the IT people want [TS]

  so the IT bill like who the IT people [TS]

  going to go to Red Hat like an [TS]

  individual Linux company you know Linux [TS]

  is bigger than Red Hat you can't just go [TS]

  to Red Hat and say we're done with [TS]

  Microsoft Microsoft has betrayed us [TS]

  Linux you are our Savior and then just [TS]

  talk to Red Hat and ran a bit like well [TS]

  it's great and all but we don't write [TS]

  Linux you know there's a lot of people [TS]

  who contribute to Linux so like we like [TS]

  to sell you something but you're not [TS]

  talking to Linux now you're talking to [TS]

  red hat and you know it's it so Linux is [TS]

  not going to looks just cannot take that [TS]

  market from you just constitutionally is [TS]

  unable to take the the PC desktop and ID [TS]

  market as you know it away from you [TS]

  Apple Apple doesn't even want those [TS]

  markets this I think is the killer one [TS]

  they're like be OS or Apple or whatever [TS]

  like oh they're going to take Apple [TS]

  spent after Steve Jasper they don't even [TS]

  want that market you keeping that market [TS]

  is helping Apple because I would be [TS]

  afraid if I was at Apple that Microsoft [TS]

  would do moves that took it away from [TS]

  the interests of that market and that [TS]

  market would come to Apple and say where [TS]

  Microsoft is doing things we don't like [TS]

  they're not listening to us anymore [TS]

  they're breaking compatibility they're [TS]

  making our lives more difficult we're [TS]

  looking around for alternatives can you [TS]

  help us and I would be terribly afraid [TS]

  that if Microsoft had been a polite bad [TS]

  leadership the leadership would go [TS]

  I don't know we haven't really been in [TS]

  that market but cheese that's a whole [TS]

  lot of money over there you know how [TS]

  many units uh [TS]

  you know Microsoft sells for software [TS]

  licenses for that you know much they [TS]

  make them at exchanged up you know how [TS]

  many seats they have Windows PCs game I [TS]

  know we're not really into that I know [TS]

  we're doing this consumer digital hub [TS]

  thing with the iMac but but geez we [TS]

  can't we can't leave that money over [TS]

  there we gotta go look at that now that [TS]

  would happen if Steve Jobs was there [TS]

  Steve Jobs oh that he would just tell [TS]

  them look if you want to use your [TS]

  computers fine here they are we'll do [TS]

  some stuff to help you if you want but [TS]

  we're not going to change the way we [TS]

  make our products for your stupid needs [TS]

  we're trying to make the best products [TS]

  possible you know so they'll add all [TS]

  that exchange stuff to iOS so you could [TS]

  use your corporate email with it and [TS]

  they'll do you know they'll do the [TS]

  enterprise deployment for the App Store [TS]

  and stuff but they're not gonna slap on [TS]

  a hardware keyboard because you think [TS]

  that's what all your you know your [TS]

  corporate customers want they're not [TS]

  going to make $200 desktop PCs that are [TS]

  pieces of crap because that's what the [TS]

  enterprise wants cuz they want like the [TS]

  volume just count Dell black pizza box [TS]

  thing to put all their people's desk [TS]

  sitting up there is not going to do that [TS]

  apples it was under Steve Jobs that said [TS]

  this is what we make will meet you know [TS]

  will help you a little bit but we're not [TS]

  going to be like Microsoft so who who [TS]

  was it that was going to take this [TS]

  market from Microsoft nobody was going [TS]

  to take it and the reason nobody was [TS]

  going to take it is because either [TS]

  they're incapable of it or in Apple's [TS]

  case they don't they realize that like [TS]

  who wants to be the king that's like [TS]

  fighting the old war Microsoft won that [TS]

  war he they are that King getting that [TS]

  going back there and say huh we're king [TS]

  of the desktop now that would hurt Apple [TS]

  because suddenly Apple would be beholden [TS]

  to all those different markets and that [TS]

  that's the thing like a race Microsoft [TS]

  from history right now like a the [TS]

  company blips out of existence including [TS]

  all their products and everyone is [TS]

  scrambling oh my god I have a computer [TS]

  at Microsoft flipped out of existence so [TS]

  I need another computer are they all [TS]

  gonna go out and buy Macs financially [TS]

  they can't most of the time because like [TS]

  I have to my I'm allowed $300 per seat [TS]

  in my ten thousand person company for [TS]

  PCs and I can't even get iPads of that [TS]

  price and Apple just doesn't do that [TS]

  kind of volume business they're just [TS]

  there did not they're not a capable of [TS]

  doing that it would bankrupt me to do [TS]

  that and if you did buy all those things [TS]

  that's just Apple doesn't have products [TS]

  or services that serve that market and [TS]

  they simply don't want it which is part [TS]

  of the big reason why Apple's products [TS]

  are so much better than Microsoft's is [TS]

  because they are there [TS]

  for consumers to satisfy the needs of [TS]

  individual people first and corporate IT [TS]

  departments xx if at all right so this [TS]

  big fear that Microsoft had that they do [TS]

  something to anger their constituents [TS]

  someone else will eat their lunch uh was [TS]

  unfounded there was no one no one who [TS]

  could or wanted to take that market from [TS]

  them so that's why I said if I was going [TS]

  to tell Microsoft that some of the [TS]

  chatter Briggs opposed to warp that's [TS]

  that's another example of like you're a [TS]

  pig war Peter no so IBM was going to [TS]

  take that marker from you like this that [TS]

  Microsoft didn't quite understand how [TS]

  strong their position was which is [TS]

  strange to think like always to warp was [TS]

  gonna come and take their market IBM was [TS]

  was even older King than Microsoft no [TS]

  one was going to say well Microsoft is [TS]

  gone let's go back to IBM they'll serve [TS]

  our needs IBM wants to sell you its own [TS]

  Hardware wanted to back then and that's [TS]

  corporate he doesn't like that they'd [TS]

  rather buy from Dell or Gateway Rover [TS]

  that crap boxes they're buying right uh [TS]

  and they wanted windows compatibility [TS]

  with all your software and always to had [TS]

  did have windows compatibility but it [TS]

  was still you know tied to Microsoft on [TS]

  that and Microsoft could slowly change [TS]

  things to make you know os/2 is you know [TS]

  that the whole has two windows thing [TS]

  like that that battle was done and [TS]

  settled so this what I'm talking about [TS]

  is the point after that where Microsoft [TS]

  which is clearly dominant os/2 was [TS]

  basically dead and it was not coming [TS]

  back and people had settled into the [TS]

  routine of Microsoft gives us the [TS]

  software licenses and we could buy [TS]

  Hardware from whoever we want right so [TS]

  what I would tell Microsoft to do during [TS]

  this phase is look at your products and [TS]

  decide what about them people don't like [TS]

  they're too complicated they've got lots [TS]

  of all legacy crap that's in there from [TS]

  before that you were afraid you couldn't [TS]

  take out these we take this out of a [TS]

  break a bunch of stuff all the things [TS]

  that Apple did like abandon legacy ports [TS]

  break backwards compatibility radically [TS]

  simplify your operating system sort of [TS]

  kind of like what they're doing with [TS]

  Metro where you know just throw [TS]

  everything out and anytime anyone [TS]

  proposed that a Microsoft during like [TS]

  the mid 90s and late 90s when they were [TS]

  so down people's hell we can't do that [TS]

  will you know we will lose it if we tell [TS]

  the corporate IT [TS]

  but yeah the next version will break a [TS]

  bunch of your applications but and [TS]

  change where everything is and radically [TS]

  simplify the operating system but just [TS]

  gonna have to deal with it because we [TS]

  think this is better in a long term for [TS]

  everybody involved [TS]

  then there's oh no they'll they'll go to [TS]

  someone else they'll all deploy Linux [TS]

  they'll they'll just play max instead [TS]

  they wouldn't or couldn't you Microsoft [TS]

  didn't understand the power in the [TS]

  position that it had there was no [TS]

  alternative to them they had enough [TS]

  power to that they had to be confident [TS]

  enough in their position to say at the [TS]

  peak of our power now is the time when [TS]

  we can make radical changes to our [TS]

  operating system that make it more [TS]

  attractive to the people who have to use [TS]

  it to prevent you know Mac OS 10 or iOS [TS]

  from coming and looking like such a [TS]

  breath of fresh air compared to the [TS]

  ridiculously complicated windows [TS]

  everything microsoft did with windows so [TS]

  it's like well we'll try to make a [TS]

  simple I diversion but if you want the [TS]

  classic view you can get that back and [TS]

  if you want see the classic control [TS]

  panel you can see that again you know [TS]

  all those kind of hedging your bets and [TS]

  all that stuff even Metro you can say [TS]

  like well Windows 8 it's totally nude [TS]

  unrelated but if you want to go back to [TS]

  the old desktop it's back there to [TS]

  switch to the other you know they never [TS]

  did the any transition there was [TS]

  equivalent to Mac OS 10 as compared to [TS]

  classic Mac OS they did it with the core [TS]

  OS the Windows NT core that eventually [TS]

  became quote-unquote mainstream in [TS]

  Windows 2000 ish that was a big internal [TS]

  reshuffle albeit with maintaining as [TS]

  much backward compatibility as they [TS]

  could possibly keep but I think they [TS]

  abandon like old 16-bit apps and some [TS]

  old da stuff that had to run in a VM or [TS]

  whatever but they never made that hard [TS]

  split that Mac OS end and they certainly [TS]

  never made the hard jump that that iOS [TS]

  is there's no no Mac apps whatever no [TS]

  backward compatibility completely new [TS]

  platform because they were afraid and [TS]

  they didn't think they could do it and [TS]

  what the time that they could have done [TS]

  that was one that they were at the peak [TS]

  of their power because nobody was [TS]

  willing or able to take that market from [TS]

  so even though everyone would have [TS]

  screamed and complained and people to [TS]

  say their stock value would have been [TS]

  punished and their profits wouldn't gone [TS]

  down or whatever it's not like that [TS]

  business would have gone elsewhere and [TS]

  eventually they could have fielded a [TS]

  product it was so much better than the [TS]

  ones that they had you know killed and [TS]

  those corporate IT people had probably [TS]

  maybe had some bad experiences trying to [TS]

  deploy Linux and [TS]

  and fault with a bond realized Apple is [TS]

  just not interested in them and want to [TS]

  come back to Microsoft and but they [TS]

  would have eventually come out of winter [TS]

  so this I think it is the main thing [TS]

  that that Microsoft did wrong in the [TS]

  past few decades the idea that it had to [TS]

  maintain this market because if it [TS]

  didn't someone else would take it they [TS]

  under played their hand their hand was [TS]

  much stronger than they thought it would [TS]

  may be an obviously it's easy with [TS]

  hindsight to say well how do they know [TS]

  Linux wouldn't take it how do they know [TS]

  Apple wasn't doing that if if your [TS]

  Microsoft you think everybody thinks [TS]

  like Microsoft you said if we if we [TS]

  abandon this market by betraying those [TS]

  people and doing something that we think [TS]

  is better for the long-term health of [TS]

  our product but worse for for our [TS]

  constituents who want our products to be [TS]

  a certain way apples going to eat our [TS]

  lunch because if I was at Apple that's [TS]

  what I would do that's the Microsoft [TS]

  philosophy all of our competitors [TS]

  stumble we swoop right in and say [TS]

  whatever that competitor is no longer [TS]

  willing to do for you we will do that [TS]

  for you we're ready to to be your [TS]

  servant in this need to be your partner [TS]

  and figuring out what kind of products [TS]

  you need maybe maybe they thought that [TS]

  Apple would think like them you know and [TS]

  again it hindsight is easy to is easy to [TS]

  see oh sure you know they didn't know [TS]

  everything that we know now that Steve [TS]

  Jobs in his attitude and they they [TS]

  couldn't have predicted you know was too [TS]

  dangerous to move this is I admit [TS]

  hindsight you know I'm just saying like [TS]

  if you could go back in time with full [TS]

  knowledge what would be the correct move [TS]

  and I think that's it that it turns out [TS]

  they had a lot stronger hand they [TS]

  thought they did and they didn't play [TS]

  now they're kind of playing it out with [TS]

  Metro as I alluded to we would did old [TS]

  several episodes in Metro where it [TS]

  really is a clean break except for the [TS]

  fact that you can still see the windows [TS]

  that's not but on the tablets and [TS]

  everything like the apps don't look like [TS]

  they do this entirely new UI paradigm [TS]

  you know new API is the whole nine yards [TS]

  with the hedge of the desktop hiding [TS]

  underneath but I actually think that [TS]

  from Microsoft really to turn itself [TS]

  around maybe the best thing that could [TS]

  happen to them is for Metro to fail [TS]

  miserably and you know like at this [TS]

  point the only option maybe the 90 days [TS]

  from bankruptcy option or you just [TS]

  everything goes to crap the desktop [TS]

  starts falling apart not because the [TS]

  competitors taking your place but [TS]

  because everyone starts using iPads or [TS]

  god knows what like some other some [TS]

  other horrible thing starts happening [TS]

  too [TS]

  business and you're just the company [TS]

  declined sales declined your cash cow [TS]

  stops being a cash cow your new next [TS]

  generation product Metro just fails [TS]

  miserably in the market Windows 7 [TS]

  doesn't take off when the company [TS]

  shrinks to some tiny sad little [TS]

  shriveled ball of what it used to be [TS]

  like Apple in 1996-97 right and then [TS]

  someone comes in with a clearer vision [TS]

  in terms of turns the thing around you [TS]

  know that that maybe uh that's probably [TS]

  not the scenario than anybody who's a [TS]

  Microsoft fan or shareholder an employee [TS]

  wants to happen [TS]

  but that may be the most likely dramatic [TS]

  turnaround scenario at this point so [TS]

  because they didn't back when they had [TS]

  the strongest hand they didn't use that [TS]

  hand to force you know to force their [TS]

  customers and constituents to accept a [TS]

  more radical change in their ready [TS]

  forwards that's been Apple's MO from day [TS]

  one of jobs has returned forcing Apple [TS]

  customers Apple developers everybody who [TS]

  has a stake in an Apple hardware [TS]

  software to to choke down more than they [TS]

  were willing to choke down it's always [TS]

  been their mo well you're taking all our [TS]

  ports away it's just us beyond this iMac [TS]

  peripheral manufacturers like grumble [TS]

  grumble grumble Kay fine we'll make [TS]

  bunch of USB stuff with teal plastic all [TS]

  over and for your iMac you know that it [TS]

  you're making an entirely new operating [TS]

  system it's objective-c with a new [TS]

  language and a new API and you're [TS]

  telling me this this backward [TS]

  compatibility layer I still have to [TS]

  modify my apps and by the way you're [TS]

  taking that away too it's always been [TS]

  whatever you think you can handle my [TS]

  crapples is taking away a little bit [TS]

  more uh ask for a little bit more right [TS]

  the App Store we have full approval in [TS]

  your applications the customers aren't [TS]

  even ours that's just too much but just [TS]

  always Apple is always asking for more [TS]

  whereas Microsoft has just been so shy [TS]

  about that not wanting to anger the [TS]

  people who it serves not don't anger [TS]

  them too much right and I think that's [TS]

  just the wrong strategy for having a [TS]

  long term success I think that's the end [TS]

  of my Microsoft notes hmm it's a topic [TS]

  that I don't see discussed a lot is [TS]

  everyone's talking about like what [TS]

  Microsoft should do now but whenever [TS]

  anyone talks about Microsoft did in the [TS]

  past it's always about how great they [TS]

  did look at how Microsoft won the [TS]

  desktop market look at all these great [TS]

  moves that I make [TS]

  I mean there's a lot of things that [TS]

  Microsoft did though that helped Apple [TS]

  yeah unintentionally unintentionally not [TS]

  on purpose or because they didn't think [TS]

  Apple was a threat but it was you know [TS]

  that the thing I think it's most [TS]

  important of our history is back when [TS]

  everyone thought it was doing so great [TS]

  back were all the stories about [TS]

  Microsoft were about how savvy it was in [TS]

  business and how it crushed Apple that [TS]

  was the point where it made its worst [TS]

  mistake not playing its hand not not [TS]

  using you know think of think of the [TS]

  hands that Apple has played I know it's [TS]

  bluffing or what but it would be like [TS]

  taking all the ports away from the iMac [TS]

  they were an imposition of strengths [TS]

  when I did that they were gone down the [TS]

  tubes and that was the time that they [TS]

  they rightly Jobs rightly I don't know [TS]

  if you call it a bluff or whatever but [TS]

  he was like you trust me on this like we [TS]

  make this computer awesome-looking I [TS]

  know people scream and complain that [TS]

  just has USB ports but it'll work will [TS]

  take away the floppy drive to look trust [TS]

  me I know it seem crazy but I have the [TS]

  people who like Apple I think they'll go [TS]

  with us in this our hand is stronger [TS]

  than we think it as whereas if you're an [TS]

  outside observer you're saying you [TS]

  kidding you're practically bankrupt you [TS]

  can't sign any computers that you have [TS]

  and you're going to do a bunch of stuff [TS]

  that you know is going to piss off your [TS]

  customers your loyal customers who love [TS]

  you the only people who are buying your [TS]

  stuff anymore but he did it so imagine [TS]

  how strong Microsoft's hand was if they [TS]

  had done Apple like moves back when they [TS]

  were so dominant they just think that [TS]

  their customers had nowhere to go [TS]

  oh god I've got some more things I want [TS]

  to ask you about this all right before I [TS]

  do let's do our second and and last [TS]

  sponsor it's a mail chimp they have a [TS]

  brand new mobile app so you're on the go [TS]

  you want to see some reports you want to [TS]

  see people signing up people are reading [TS]

  the list you do that the app is pretty [TS]

  pretty amazing as a brand new version [TS]

  out there for iOS and Android all you [TS]

  need is OS 4.3 or new or an Android 2.2 [TS]

  or newer and a MailChimp account which [TS]

  is free and it's a shortcut to your [TS]

  stats just a few taps you can see our [TS]

  campaigns are doing you can see what [TS]

  your subscribers are doing with your [TS]

  campaigns if they're sharing them and [TS]

  how and what if you're out somewhere and [TS]

  you you have somebody and you're talking [TS]

  about this this cool newsletter you do [TS]

  and they're like oh I sign me up for [TS]

  that what how do I have to sign [TS]

  oh you got to go to my website and here [TS]

  let me write down the oral and then you [TS]

  go to slash newsletter and you fill out [TS]

  the form no you can subscribe them right [TS]

  there on the spot with the app it's [TS]

  amazing again it's all free go to [TS]

  MailChimp com there's a link to it there [TS]

  or you can go to the iTunes App Store [TS]

  and search for MailChimp you'll find it [TS]

  it's pretty great stuff [TS]

  MailChimp com is a longtime sponsor of [TS]

  ours we love them [TS]

  love what they're doing newsletters are [TS]

  a big deal [TS]

  Ida sign up for siracusa newsletter [TS]

  there was one should be one instead of a [TS]

  blog a lot of work to write then you [TS]

  would have to write it yeah so looking [TS]

  at this this situation what do you feel [TS]

  looking forward five years from now not [TS]

  at Apple which is what we're all fond of [TS]

  doing but at Microsoft what what kind of [TS]

  company is Microsoft five years from now [TS]

  in 2000 a 2015 that's not quite five [TS]

  years from now what what is what in 2015 [TS]

  what is Microsoft is it the same thing [TS]

  are they still struggling have they come [TS]

  out with something amazing are they [TS]

  I mean what's what's the story the [TS]

  problem I have with predicting any kind [TS]

  of non boring future for Microsoft is [TS]

  the boring future is like well they kind [TS]

  of like they are now but like their [TS]

  desktop business is making less money [TS]

  than you used to and they're kind of [TS]

  trying to be more successful Windows [TS]

  Phone 7 Metro is kind of out there like [TS]

  but that's boring though that's not like [TS]

  a they're going to be dead because they [TS]

  won't and it's not like they're going to [TS]

  be 20 times the size they are now or [TS]

  massively successful because I don't [TS]

  think they will and the reason for that [TS]

  is that when I look at all Microsoft's [TS]

  efforts even in cases where I think [TS]

  they're kind of doing the right thing [TS]

  albeit too late everything they're doing [TS]

  is a reaction to something somebody else [TS]

  did that's what it seems like to me and [TS]

  the things they're not doing that are [TS]

  reactions I just never get out the door [TS]

  so just look at all their product lines [TS]

  Windows Phone 7 it's a reaction to iOS [TS]

  the like MIT like pretty much every [TS]

  mobile thing in the entire market since [TS]

  2007 has been a reaction to the iPhone [TS]

  right because they Microsoft had a [TS]

  window uh windows you know what was it [TS]

  called Windows Mobile and then was [TS]

  called [TS]

  see before that's great that they name [TS]

  the product whose if you pronounce this [TS]

  acronym is wince yeah does that was [TS]

  pretty much for people dip in Houston [TS]

  and they had a mobile operating system [TS]

  for a long time right so it's like oh [TS]

  they weren't we weren't reacting to [TS]

  iPhone we've been doing this mobile [TS]

  thing forever clearly iPhone came out [TS]

  and they said all that mobile stuff [TS]

  we've been doing is crap when you start [TS]

  over Windows Phone 7 and I actually got [TS]

  a chance to use Windows Phone 7 for the [TS]

  first time for like you know three and a [TS]

  half minutes I was very impressed by it [TS]

  much more impressed than I've ever been [TS]

  with my three minutes spent with a [TS]

  variety of Android or palm phones were [TS]

  you able to try out the Siri like [TS]

  functionality that Windows has had on [TS]

  the phone for decades or whatever the no [TS]

  no I did not I did not try that out I [TS]

  was just flipping around looking at you [TS]

  know the applications a scrolling [TS]

  responsiveness how they've got stuff [TS]

  organized is definitely different than [TS]

  the iPhone which I think is good and [TS]

  actually maybe that's a counter example [TS]

  to what I'm saying how everything to do [TS]

  is a reaction Windows Phone 7 interface [TS]

  and Metro interface it's very least is [TS]

  not directly derivative of things other [TS]

  people doing but I think the the effort [TS]

  itself that effort we need to make next [TS]

  generation mobile platform because all [TS]

  the ones we've had so far are not good [TS]

  enough because of the iPhone that's a [TS]

  reaction and the Xbox is a reaction [TS]

  basically to the game console market [TS]

  starting to grip up its PC power like [TS]

  the PlayStation 2 being so massively [TS]

  dominant and starting to be a powerful [TS]

  enough thing that you know it's got a [TS]

  net it's got networking on it uh and [TS]

  it's got a powerful CPU and lots of [TS]

  memory it's like boy you know to be that [TS]

  starting to look like pcs we need to be [TS]

  in that market so the Xbox Xbox is a [TS]

  reaction to the console market that [TS]

  existed before them and and they they [TS]

  did sort of the same things that the [TS]

  rest of the console market did same [TS]

  thing on the phone that you know it's [TS]

  got to be all screen it's got to be all [TS]

  touchscreen yeah we'll do it from UI [TS]

  buts react into the iPhone whatever set [TS]

  MSN is your action data well windows [TS]

  your reaction to the Mac one other [TS]

  efforts might forgetting something the [TS]

  Microsoft's doing now that one of their [TS]

  important things Kinect is a great [TS]

  example Kinect is a reaction to we you [TS]

  know the the we was the innovator [TS]

  they're saying we're going to change the [TS]

  input for consoles from this little [TS]

  thing you hold your hand through thumbs [TS]

  to something different [TS]

  Kinect is more innovative than [TS]

  PlayStation Move because it's like oh no [TS]

  control at all like but it's still a [TS]

  reaction to what's something that [TS]

  competitor did but I don't see from [TS]

  Microsoft is them [TS]

  doing something where they're the first [TS]

  one to do this thing and everyone's [TS]

  going to be reacting to them I'll Bing [TS]

  is another example Bing does reaction to [TS]

  Google right they weren't the ones [TS]

  spearheading that effort so if [TS]

  everything they do is your reaction to [TS]

  somebody else no matter how good they [TS]

  are even have to execute like ten times [TS]

  better than the other guy they'll never [TS]

  be the one who defined that market the [TS]

  Zune the reaction of the iPod there [TS]

  they'll always be playing catch-up [TS]

  they'll always be behind they'll [TS]

  especially behind for people like Apple [TS]

  who are super secretive who's we have no [TS]

  idea what the hell a polygamist Evy [TS]

  product so if they do something that [TS]

  turns out to be successful Microsoft [TS]

  gets a start like unannounced and a [TS]

  scrambling to make their competitor [TS]

  product they don't get you know they [TS]

  don't get the two years of R&D that are [TS]

  already gone into the Apple thing or do [TS]

  you think that's a big part of the Apple [TS]

  secrecy targeted specifically at the big [TS]

  companies like Microsoft that if they [TS]

  really had and I mean a lot a lot of [TS]

  people are speculating that the secrecy [TS]

  behind Apple ism is as much for you know [TS]

  it's more about like people they want to [TS]

  surprise people and they don't want [TS]

  people to not buy the things that [TS]

  they're offering out of their inventory [TS]

  but maybe it sounds like you're saying [TS]

  that it sure it's those things but maybe [TS]

  it's more directed at their big big [TS]

  competitors like Microsoft I think the [TS]

  most important for the reason a police [TS]

  OC croteau I think mostly ties in with [TS]

  Steve Jobs is personality but ignoring [TS]

  like the origins of a wire secret if I [TS]

  had to rank the benefits of being [TS]

  secretive ignoring why what it motivated [TS]

  in the first place what what is the [TS]

  actual result of this what are the [TS]

  benefits the number one benefit I would [TS]

  say is how how the market reacts to [TS]

  stuff and how do consumers react it sort [TS]

  of under-promise over-deliver thing [TS]

  where they don't do the thing where they [TS]

  show you what they're going to give you [TS]

  in a year because that is just poison [TS]

  because no matter what you show them [TS]

  either like they want it right now and [TS]

  they start thinking your existing [TS]

  products are crappy or they bill look [TS]

  fantasies in their head about what it's [TS]

  going to be about or you don't exactly [TS]

  meet what you showed in the demo like [TS]

  that the whole knowledge navigator thing [TS]

  where they made like a fantasy video [TS]

  like this is what Apple computers are [TS]

  going to be like in the future and then [TS]

  I'm gonna not ever own a set don't don't [TS]

  show anything if you've got something to [TS]

  show that is the number one benefit of [TS]

  that what that does to the market is not [TS]

  benefit from Apple secrecy that it frees [TS]

  them from all sorts of BS in terms of [TS]

  public relations consumers everything is [TS]

  like there is nothing but rumors until [TS]

  we show you the thing and rumors is like [TS]

  you know lucky those crazy rumors about [TS]

  everything like that's not affecting [TS]

  their market there's there's nothing [TS]

  this this holiday season are people you [TS]

  know I don't want to buy an iPad because [TS]

  the iPad 3 is coming out and it's got a [TS]

  double resolution display maybe as Apple [TS]

  said that no you know you can't if Apple [TS]

  has shown like the last WotC and we're [TS]

  cons great new iPad and look it's got a [TS]

  double resolution spray is going to be [TS]

  awesome people that dampens the [TS]

  enthusiasm of people buying an iPad for [TS]

  their you know families this Christmas [TS]

  right nothing they say nothing until [TS]

  they're ready with the thing and the [TS]

  environment that creates our own Apple [TS]

  products from a consumers perspective [TS]

  and for retail and very that is the most [TS]

  important result of secrecy and also by [TS]

  the way yet another reason why they are [TS]

  totally incompatible with corporate IT [TS]

  because that's not what corporate IT [TS]

  wants they want a roadmap and Apple [TS]

  doesn't want that so that the second [TS]

  biggest reason probably is not honestly [TS]

  like not tipping your hand to [TS]

  competitors that's what you were getting [TS]

  at like you don't let people know that [TS]

  you're you know you see all these these [TS]

  this footage of you know that the brand [TS]

  new version of whatever new car is [TS]

  coming out and how they'll have it all [TS]

  disguised when they're doing the the [TS]

  test runs in you know wonder if you're [TS]

  up if you're fan of any kind of sports [TS]

  whenever they're doing their practice [TS]

  they're very very careful about who can [TS]

  go and see them running their drills and [TS]

  and you know that that's a known thing [TS]

  so there's part of that is there for the [TS]

  competitors but I guess I'm just curious [TS]

  what where them the main concern is as a [TS]

  competitors or is it I bet secondary [TS]

  concern is competitors because the thing [TS]

  about competitors is you can't do what [TS]

  you do to consumers to them consumers [TS]

  like literally do not know if an iPad 3 [TS]

  exists with the double resolution [TS]

  display or when it's coming out or like [TS]

  all we have just vague rumors like we [TS]

  get nothing solid [TS]

  but competitors usually have pretty [TS]

  solid leads like for example if Apple is [TS]

  talking to every single television [TS]

  network there's just no way you can hide [TS]

  that from competitors who's also talking [TS]

  to the same guys I know apples going to [TS]

  say as part of this legal [TS]

  you can't say you ever met with us bla [TS]

  bla bla but when it's when it's like [TS]

  when you're in the room with the guy [TS]

  running CBS and Apple guys we're just [TS]

  there that week you can tell whether [TS]

  Apple's been there or not [TS]

  even if they [TS]

  even if they [TS]

  never said like it's just especially [TS]

  when you're doing deals with people for [TS]

  content which is increasing what the [TS]

  stuff is about other people can get wind [TS]

  of the big moves that Apple's make me [TS]

  more like manufacturers oh I'm sorry we [TS]

  don't have manufacturing capacity for [TS]

  those LCDs why well we just don't like [TS]

  another you know we can't tell you who [TS]

  is taking that manufacturing capacity or [TS]

  yeah you can figure it out because you [TS]

  are talking directly to the same people [TS]

  that Apple talked their consumers were [TS]

  just talking to people who talked to [TS]

  people or the rumored from this guy you [TS]

  know it's really hard to hide your [TS]

  strategic moves as in Apple's making a [TS]

  TV from your competitors because they're [TS]

  talking to all the same people you are [TS]

  all the people you need to do your [TS]

  manufacturing to your business deal city [TS]

  you're shipping to do everything but [TS]

  what you can hide from them is what [TS]

  exactly are you doing like they can try [TS]

  to piece together they have much more [TS]

  solid information than consumers do [TS]

  about what you're doing but they don't [TS]

  know exactly what the new Apple TV think [TS]

  is going to be like they just can't so [TS]

  they'll be alerted they'll be on alert [TS]

  like geez Apple students until we gotta [TS]

  do some TV thing but they can't make [TS]

  their reaction product until they see [TS]

  what the heck you you've made an Apple [TS]

  is good enough with secrecy to prevent [TS]

  them from know exactly we're going to [TS]

  make sure they scramble go oh my god we [TS]

  got to make a Microsoft TV and then make [TS]

  a whole big TV set with a Microsoft logo [TS]

  on it with like an Xbox strapped to the [TS]

  back or something and turns out Apple [TS]

  ships another little black box and not a [TS]

  television set they goofed they didn't [TS]

  react to the right thing they knew there [TS]

  was something going on TV they could [TS]

  kind of say sometime next year there's [TS]

  got to be something going on the TV we [TS]

  should do something to you they don't [TS]

  know what to do exactly so that's I [TS]

  think that's a secondary benefit to [TS]

  their secrecy it'll be gone to the [TS]

  secrecy topic again it's a good topic [TS]

  we're talking about what you are [TS]

  refusing to predict what Microsoft will [TS]

  call you anyway ourself would be [TS]

  infighting so so I was saying that the [TS]

  thing that's keeping them back is that [TS]

  everything you're doing is a reaction to [TS]

  somebody else [TS]

  ah and that's they have to stop that [TS]

  they have to do something that is their [TS]

  own there they are [TS]

  if you want to be a big player in this [TS]

  market you have to be the first one to [TS]

  do this thing or the first one that you [TS]

  know the first one to do but the first [TS]

  one to do it well like for example in [TS]

  Gmail Gmail was a pretty big [TS]

  game-changer for Google obviously Google [TS]

  search [TS]

  like they did search better than [TS]

  everybody else they're not the first one [TS]

  to make search but the first one to just [TS]

  make search much much better and just [TS]

  you know really defined search right so [TS]

  that was Google's big thing but Gmail [TS]

  was another example they're not the [TS]

  first ones do webmail hotmail was out [TS]

  and all those other things were out [TS]

  there whatever but Gmail changed the [TS]

  game just same way the iPhone changed [TS]

  the game where there was plenty of smart [TS]

  phones before the iPhone but the iPhone [TS]

  had a new way to do it that was so much [TS]

  more compelling the other ways that it [TS]

  came to define the smartphone so Gmail [TS]

  just stomped on its competitors because [TS]

  of what I figure what it was like two [TS]

  gigabytes of space and it's free and [TS]

  it's fast and it's reliable and this [TS]

  little text ads on the side instead of [TS]

  giant viagra banners in line denied you [TS]

  know it was just it you know that [TS]

  defined webmail for that point I was [TS]

  like you want to do web mail well you [TS]

  you get you gotta compete with Gmail now [TS]

  like that's you know you want to make a [TS]

  smart phone look at the iPhone because [TS]

  that's what you got to deal with all [TS]

  right so they they Google did something [TS]

  granted and you know I don't know how [TS]

  much money they still just token all [TS]

  their money from advertising but it was [TS]

  sort of a defining product that wasn't [TS]

  following what everybody else did in [TS]

  that space this gets back to what Gruber [TS]

  was talking before every time I said is [TS]

  people are gonna say what do you mean [TS]

  you know not following everything's [TS]

  apples done has been a following of [TS]

  somebody else they weren't the first [TS]

  ones to make the GUI about the whole [TS]

  idea that innovation means you had the [TS]

  very first one to ever do this that's [TS]

  not what it means that think about the [TS]

  iPhone it sort of saying there's so many [TS]

  mobile phones for the iPhone so many [TS]

  smart phones so many applications on [TS]

  phones before the iPhone yet clearly the [TS]

  iPhone is this discontinuity and then [TS]

  everything after the iPhone was changed [TS]

  that type of move is with Microsoft that [TS]

  does it has to do maybe metros I don't [TS]

  know a metro I still see metro and [TS]

  Windows 8 as reaction to iOS is hard not [TS]

  to see it that way [TS]

  even though the software is so different [TS]

  but if margosa wants to be someplace [TS]

  other than someplace boring in 10 or 15 [TS]

  years they need to do some I don't know [TS]

  what that is that's up to them to decide [TS]

  what a disk whatever whatever they [TS]

  decide that is you know Microsoft could [TS]

  leverage its entire company to try to [TS]

  become the future of TV you know ditch [TS]

  everything else like allow it to be [TS]

  cannibalized say we are going to be the [TS]

  future television whatever they have to [TS]

  do like buy up all the content with the [TS]

  huge cash reserves to buy their own [TS]

  network for delivery loader they could [TS]

  be the future television and that could [TS]

  be their future in 15 years if they [TS]

  decided the [TS]

  point of Microsoft has become to become [TS]

  the future of television and all those [TS]

  people who have been using our existing [TS]

  products tough luck they'll have to [TS]

  figure something out if they all go to [TS]

  Apple that we think will actually weigh [TS]

  Apple down like a like a boat anchor and [TS]

  will help us zoom ahead to become the [TS]

  future of television not I'm saying this [TS]

  is what Microsoft should do in [TS]

  television is probably not the future of [TS]

  anything anyway but I'm just saying like [TS]

  that type of that type of move that that [TS]

  Apple did in each little endeavor with [TS]

  the iMac with the iPhone with the iPad [TS]

  each one of those things Apple was [TS]

  willing to say if Apple in 20 years is [TS]

  just the company that makes the iPad and [TS]

  although the products are dead we're [TS]

  fine with that [TS]

  because we'll just keep making new [TS]

  products and new products you know like [TS]

  their each new product it they're ok [TS]

  with that being the the cornerstone of [TS]

  their business in fact they hope it does [TS]

  eat all their other business like when [TS]

  the iPhone comes out as it came to [TS]

  dominate the Mac you know even the iPod [TS]

  the iPod came and suddenly Apple makes [TS]

  more money for my pods and Macs Apple [TS]

  isn't freaking about that so no we're [TS]

  the Mac company we can't have a product [TS]

  makes more money than Mac and the iPhone [TS]

  came out and made more on the iPad [TS]

  they're ok with that and our iPhone made [TS]

  more money than the iMac or the iPod [TS]

  they were ok with that too and the [TS]

  iPhone if you look at the chart Horace's [TS]

  great charts you can see the iPad [TS]

  starting to grow in the percentage of [TS]

  revenues and profits and everything [TS]

  Apple's ok with that too Margaret has no [TS]

  charts like that no charts where Zune [TS]

  comes out and starts slowly getting to [TS]

  be as big as Windows in office and then [TS]

  you know the metro comes out and tablets [TS]

  start to become as big as the Zune they [TS]

  they just don't have that model so where [TS]

  does that microphone going to be in 15 [TS]

  years without a product is not a [TS]

  follower product following someone [TS]

  else's innovation they're gonna be like [TS]

  they are now but even a little bit more [TS]

  set like they are now but more sad a [TS]

  little bit more sad okay and I mean a [TS]

  thing that's I'm not predicting and I'm [TS]

  saying if they don't do that [TS]

  there's no they have so much money and [TS]

  so much talent in so many brains it's [TS]

  just a matter of like will and [TS]

  priorities and I guess making the right [TS]

  bet on what it is that you want to do I [TS]

  think television probably be the wrong [TS]

  bet kind of like game consoles were the [TS]

  wrong bet in hindsight like they made a [TS]

  great game console that's not where the [TS]

  future of the industry was and so now [TS]

  they're kind of like second place game [TS]

  console but even like the first league [TS]

  game consoles terrified of iOS like [TS]

  Nintendo's out there you know getting [TS]

  its lunch eaten by iOS so obviously the [TS]

  future was in [TS]

  they accept my croissant bet on mobile [TS]

  they just been whoo good job right yeah [TS]

  we haven't talked about games and gaming [TS]

  consoles on this show like like that [TS]

  industry have we not enough that'd be a [TS]

  good topic for future show I would like [TS]

  that to be a topic for you to show I'm [TS]

  not sure how to focus it it's you know [TS]

  it's kind of an amorphous concept I [TS]

  don't know what I don't know thing I [TS]

  think I've actually have this in my [TS]

  notes for this show is talking about [TS]

  Nintendo does Nintendo I think is a very [TS]

  interesting analog to Apple and it's [TS]

  also a company at the crossroads so [TS]

  maybe I'll just do a whole show on on [TS]

  Nintendo or on the aspects of Nintendo [TS]

  that remind me of Apple and they relate [TS]

  to Apple so I'll tuck that away for for [TS]

  the future probably in the show then [TS]

  yeah we also never talked about patents [TS]

  somehow we managed remember that whole [TS]

  pile yeah everybody everybody was [TS]

  talking about patents and I never I'm [TS]

  not that I have a particular unique [TS]

  injures or interesting take on patents [TS]

  but it will be worth throwing into some [TS]

  show he kept quiet no everyone else was [TS]

  doing you know people had more of a [TS]

  connection like Marco had a more direct [TS]

  connection with the with the whole lot [TS]

  sis things and stuff like that so it's [TS]

  better to leave that to them and I [TS]

  forget what I was talking about at the [TS]

  time probably something completely [TS]

  unrelated so it didn't quite fit in but [TS]

  maybe I'll circle back to it eventually [TS]

  because it you know it doesn't leave the [TS]

  news stays in there we should end it [TS]

  then I think so too bad you don't have [TS]

  any turkey sitting there waiting for you [TS]

  to go eat for late late lunch [TS]

  no I what I did bring to Thanksgiving [TS]

  was the dessert so I got a lot I got a [TS]

  lot of desserts in the house that's kind [TS]

  of bad though big it's like yeah say [TS]

  that don't you say that like it's a good [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah just well I know you yeah but [TS]

  generally you don't want to load up on [TS]

  that stuff no matter even if even if you [TS]

  loved it even if you love desserts you [TS]

  can have too much of your favorite [TS]

  dessert and then you just don't want to [TS]

  have it anymore [TS]

  mmm that never happened to me instead it [TS]

  happens to me it's not true of like your [TS]

  favorite savory food I think mostly not [TS]

  true like it's like not like your your [TS]

  on steaks you know like I just can't I [TS]

  can't have another steak I had steak [TS]

  three times this week [TS]

  you still like steak you have have you [TS]

  had apple pie three times last week and [TS]

  came time for dessert you wouldn't be up [TS]

  for the Apple no not me maybe for [TS]

  dessert anyway reset for the after dark [TS]

  but I'll save it for the after dark [TS]

  alright so listen up people who were [TS]

  enjoying this episode we don't have a [TS]

  lot of show notes but I've actually been [TS]

  making some tweaks to the show notes a [TS]

  little bit of feedback somebody emailed [TS]

  to say Dan you refer to the show notes [TS]

  and then when I actually go to the show [TS]

  notes page it says episode links what [TS]

  are you trying to do to me so I've [TS]

  actually fixed that and a number of [TS]

  other things and I did something just [TS]

  for you John I haven't deployed this yet [TS]

  but in my early morning coding efforts [TS]

  over the last week or so I've been doing [TS]

  making little enhancements and one of [TS]

  them is something I think you might or [TS]

  might not care about you your friends at [TS]

  the incomparable podcast on 5x5 probably [TS]

  would or will care about this but I've [TS]

  made a place for there to be extended [TS]

  notes which can include embedded links [TS]

  and things like that so if you want to [TS]

  do like a mini blog post along with an [TS]

  episode you can now do there's a place [TS]

  for you to do that and people may be [TS]

  listening to this wondering what it is [TS]

  we have show notes the show notes by the [TS]

  way are sponsored by help spot comm [TS]

  which is great check them out but you [TS]

  can go to 5x5 that TV slash [TS]

  hypercritical slash 44 and all of the [TS]

  links and things that the John and [TS]

  sometimes me have found they will be [TS]

  there right there and you can follow [TS]

  John on Twitter head siracusa I'm Dan [TS]

  benjamin on twitter and rate the show in [TS]

  itunes there was somebody emailed to say [TS]

  that there were 666 reviews of this show [TS]

  or ratings of the show was a different [TS]

  show was are you sure that was this one [TS]

  we've got reviews or ratings ratings now [TS]

  this there were way over that number of [TS]

  ratings okay although we should be [TS]

  higher everybody just go and click [TS]

  little stars we're stuck we're stuck [TS]

  around a thousand [TS]

  I just noted power through that yeah but [TS]

  that's it so glad you had a good [TS]

  Thanksgiving and everybody thanks for [TS]

  tuning in we'll be back next week same [TS]

  time same station thanks John yep [TS]

  you [TS]