39: Quasimodo Backpack


  you're listening to hypercritical weekly [TS]

  talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

  wrong in the world of Apple related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect that it can't be utterly [TS]

  destroyed by my co-host John siracusa [TS]

  I'm Dan benjamin today is october 21st [TS]

  2011 this is episode number 39 we would [TS]

  like to say a quick thank you to our [TS]

  sponsors handle our studios makers of [TS]

  game minder and reminder Shopify comm [TS]

  the most elegant customizable affordable [TS]

  ecommerce platform in the world and [TS]

  source bits calm these guys make [TS]

  software for every platform out there [TS]

  are you doing John just fine how's your [TS]

  week been same as always [TS]

  same as always productive productive at [TS]

  work oh yeah well this is a good show [TS]

  that's what you do a talk show [TS]

  that's a talk show line you guys switch [TS]

  modes you're in hyper critical mode well [TS]

  you're not talking I'm getting ready [TS]

  oh you know what you know what happened [TS]

  ladies and gentlemen is that I was [TS]

  actually on time today I actually I was [TS]

  sitting here waiting for you to call and [TS]

  exactly noon uh John's phone rang and [TS]

  he's just so not used to us running [TS]

  ahead of schedule a TV shows actually [TS]

  12:01 according to now I right here on [TS]

  this on this skype box I can tell you [TS]

  right here is it synched with time [TS]

  that'll calm three minutes and 20 [TS]

  seconds we've been recording so one [TS]

  quite 11:01 yet alright or 12:01 in your [TS]

  time alright so we ready now I'm ready [TS]

  recording it's already started man yeah [TS]

  you usually do the intro I already [TS]

  required you recorded it but you didn't [TS]

  tell me I was so ready for you this time [TS]

  I'm like got all my ducks in a row this [TS]

  time John's not gonna know what happened [TS]

  I switched back to show bot that I mean [TS]

  to look at titles for faith show and [TS]

  everything I'm not editing any of this [TS]

  out either right marker [TS]

  for those who don't know what we're [TS]

  talking about you can listen to episode [TS]

  5 of geek Friday on 5x5 and you'll know [TS]

  you'll know everything in their haste [TS]

  look I cross promoted the show there you [TS]

  go boo synergy alright follow up follow [TS]

  up all from last week the first item of [TS]

  follow up at the very beginning of last [TS]

  show and a similar type of tangential [TS]

  not really related to anything segment [TS]

  although I think it was spawned by you I [TS]

  remember how it came up anyway we were [TS]

  talking about flu shots and stuff and I [TS]

  got a couple complaints about that and [TS]

  one listener in particular was very [TS]

  angry about that segment of the show you [TS]

  had asked me we talked about flu shots [TS]

  or our kids are getting them or whatever [TS]

  and you'd asked me if you thought it was [TS]

  worthwhile and I started pondering and [TS]

  thinking out loud like oh no well I used [TS]

  to not get flu shots and now I do but I [TS]

  get colds all the time and I was saying [TS]

  you don't get pretentious yeah I'm cold [TS]

  and while I'm talking out loud you're [TS]

  you kept asking me about whether I [TS]

  thought flu shots were rented the cold [TS]

  and I was just ignoring you I was having [TS]

  moved on to the next segment and and [TS]

  then this particular listener was saying [TS]

  are you trying to say that the flu shot [TS]

  prevents a cold [TS]

  no I did two of us were talking past [TS]

  each other in that segment and it wasn't [TS]

  clear to me during the segment when I'm [TS]

  back and went back and listened to it [TS]

  you could see how someone might get that [TS]

  impression so I got that same impression [TS]

  right and I didn't understand what you [TS]

  were asking about because like what now [TS]

  so what I was talking about was it is [TS]

  the flu shot worthwhile I was thinking [TS]

  like overall does the winter season do I [TS]

  feel better or worse during the winter [TS]

  season when they get a flu shot or not [TS]

  and what I was getting at was regardless [TS]

  whether or not I get a flu shot in other [TS]

  words regardless of whether or not I get [TS]

  the flu this season is dominated for me [TS]

  by a series of annoying Colts which is [TS]

  entirely different family of viruses and [TS]

  as long as did with the flu shot and so [TS]

  I said well when I didn't get the flu [TS]

  shot I felt miserable the whole winter [TS]

  and when I did get it I felt miserable [TS]

  the whole winter so maybe the flu shot [TS]

  is protecting me from getting the flu [TS]

  but I felt like the flu was not the [TS]

  dominant factor in my happiness during [TS]

  cold and flu season so that's what I was [TS]

  getting at so if people who are confused [TS]

  the flu shot does not protect you from a [TS]

  cold and I also said that it practicum [TS]

  one particular strain of flu would [TS]

  actually that [TS]

  apparently put several different strains [TS]

  in the flu shot some people said three [TS]

  some people said five some of the chat [TS]

  rooms saying ooh felt better because you [TS]

  didn't get the flu I don't know I used [TS]

  to not get the flu shot ever and did I [TS]

  get a flu during those times at people [TS]

  so if you got the flu you wouldn't know [TS]

  it maybe I just never got it maybe I'm [TS]

  not susceptible to it maybe my colds are [TS]

  very bad and I have difficulty [TS]

  differentiating the symptoms I was just [TS]

  comparing like before the time when I [TS]

  used to get flu shots because I never [TS]

  got them before I kids once you get kids [TS]

  you kind of get into that flu shot cycle [TS]

  where the kids are getting him and you [TS]

  might as well get them too and [TS]

  everything so anyway I just wanted to [TS]

  clarify that point so everyone is clear [TS]

  on the the efficacy of the flu shot I've [TS]

  heard that if you if you don't get a lot [TS]

  of colds if you only get one over a year [TS]

  or two that it'll be way worse than if [TS]

  you get them a lot good because I get [TS]

  calls constantly and the symptoms are [TS]

  very similar to flu symptoms it depends [TS]

  on what age you are and everything so if [TS]

  you go to a doctor they're not gonna [TS]

  know they're not the same well I don't [TS]

  know so you're right there some that are [TS]

  all specific to the flu like it but if [TS]

  you have the flu you feel like you got [TS]

  run over by a truck instantaneously yeah [TS]

  well it depends different people have [TS]

  different effects like something gets a [TS]

  body aches and you just feel like you [TS]

  can't get up some people children in [TS]

  particular can get nauseated and [TS]

  vomiting and everything I get what [TS]

  usually doesn't happen with the cold you [TS]

  know call it here's how you know cold [TS]

  always starts with a sore throat dun dun [TS]

  see I don't sometimes my colds last [TS]

  winter I didn't I just had the post [TS]

  nasal drip thing which is part of the [TS]

  cold symptoms because I think those [TS]

  viruses take root in your nasal I'm [TS]

  talking about things I shouldn't be [TS]

  talked about but anyway yeah the sore [TS]

  throat you're feeling is not like strep [TS]

  throat is an actual sore throat where [TS]

  that infects that region of your throat [TS]

  but this the post nasal drip thing is [TS]

  where you're getting a cold and it's [TS]

  making your throat feel sore because [TS]

  that anyway I don't want talk about [TS]

  germs right well I mean you and again [TS]

  you also are susceptible to [TS]

  techno-organic viruses most of us are [TS]

  not so so what else has been going on [TS]

  one other fog yeah so Star Wars blue [TS]

  rays next topic how did you get these I [TS]

  mentioned a couple shows ago that I was [TS]

  debating about whether was gonna get [TS]

  them and I said I probably would because [TS]

  the [TS]

  I wanted to see the special features and [TS]

  I wanted to have a high-definition [TS]

  version of Empire Strikes Back because [TS]

  it was the least adulterated of the [TS]

  special edition films and it is also my [TS]

  favorite even though they messed up the [TS]

  color balance and a few other things [TS]

  like well this they didn't change the [TS]

  content in Annoying ways and a figure be [TS]

  worth having and I had to buy the stupid [TS]

  set that had all of the movies including [TS]

  the prequels in it just because the [TS]

  special features are not included in the [TS]

  original trilogy only set which was [TS]

  really annoying so that I think last [TS]

  week I was complaining about the special [TS]

  features that they put it in a little [TS]

  window frame and had the surrounding [TS]

  stuff and that was annoying and I'm [TS]

  still going through the special features [TS]

  this is just from watching these these [TS]

  special features of the thing I still [TS]

  can actually watch any actual movies and [TS]

  during the special feature segments [TS]

  they're talking about like the making of [TS]

  Empire or stuff like that and they were [TS]

  show segments from Empire Strikes Back [TS]

  but they would show the high-definition [TS]

  version so here I am getting tiny little [TS]

  snippets of the new high-definition [TS]

  version of Empire still having not [TS]

  watched it and they would show a snippet [TS]

  like they'd be talking about the Hoth [TS]

  battle she scene and they would show up [TS]

  a two-second clip from the hoff battle [TS]

  scene while someone talks over it and [TS]

  they showed it to second clip I'm like [TS]

  wait a second what is that gun turret [TS]

  doing there like there was a new gun you [TS]

  know though the originate so many times [TS]

  that even something as subtle as just a [TS]

  small gun turret in the background is [TS]

  Right problematic I shouldn't be there [TS]

  and I rewound it I looked at it again [TS]

  and it looked like they added a CG gun [TS]

  turret to this particular scene with [TS]

  like a little animation where it's like [TS]

  rotating or something and and then they [TS]

  showed another scene with like a bounty [TS]

  hunter scene and they were talking about [TS]

  how Boba Fett and how that character [TS]

  came to be and stuff like that and they [TS]

  show Boba Fett and showed one of his [TS]

  scenes and and he says he's no good to [TS]

  me dead [TS]

  and it wasn't Boba Fett's voice it was a [TS]

  stupid Jango Fett's voice someone from [TS]

  the chat room tell me whether the Jango [TS]

  Fett actor is from New Zealand or [TS]

  Australia I'm sorry that I can't tell a [TS]

  difference so they change Boba Fett's [TS]

  voice to be the Jango Fett voice which [TS]

  is horrible and they added a bunch of [TS]

  stuff and then they were showing some [TS]

  other scenes but just a DAT Walker's [TS]

  moving and stuff in the the sides of the [TS]

  a DAT and other metal grey metal things [TS]

  look like they had a bad Photoshop D [TS]

  speckle filter applied to them like they [TS]

  look too smooth and I said did they did [TS]

  they redo all the ads and CG and replace [TS]

  them do they just do they just put new [TS]

  textures on the outside of them and like [TS]

  rotoscope it [TS]

  they just apply some sort of filter it [TS]

  just looked off so apparently the last [TS]

  time I've seen the last time I saw and [TS]

  Bryce Trackbacks must have been these [TS]

  special editions on VHS or something [TS]

  like last time I saw the special edition [TS]

  version yeah I don't think this stuff [TS]

  was in those special editions certainly [TS]

  it wasn't high-def and I don't think the [TS]

  extra gun turret was there and certainly [TS]

  they didn't add the Jango Fett voice [TS]

  because that those movies hadn't been [TS]

  made at the time I watched it so they [TS]

  are further adulterating Empire Strikes [TS]

  Back maybe that was already like the [TS]

  DVDs to I don't know but this is very [TS]

  upsetting and so I'm even more glad that [TS]

  I got hold of the over those things [TS]

  called the despecialized edition which [TS]

  are 720p versions of the movies that are [TS]

  trying to be as faithful as possible to [TS]

  the original obviously the originals [TS]

  were only available in standard def at [TS]

  this time right so they had take [TS]

  standard def and they tried to clean it [TS]

  up and blown up to 720p it's a little [TS]

  bit fuzzy it certainly doesn't look [TS]

  high-def it's not as crisp as these [TS]

  blu-rays are but everything looks the [TS]

  right way the Darth Baras lightsabers [TS]

  pink both has voices the right way and [TS]

  there are no weird CG things added where [TS]

  they don't need to be so kind of [TS]

  disappointing I'm speaking of this [TS]

  appointment front apparently the [TS]

  documentary movie which I wanted to see [TS]

  forever which was only shown at film [TS]

  festivals maybe last year maybe was the [TS]

  year before that maybe I've been waiting [TS]

  for two years it seems like a long time [TS]

  but this movie is called the people [TS]

  versus George Lucas and it's a [TS]

  documentary about exactly what it sounds [TS]

  like it's about alright someone goes [TS]

  around with the camera crew and talks to [TS]

  geeks and other people who are angry at [TS]

  George Lucas I'm like this this movie [TS]

  was made for me why can't I see it [TS]

  couldn't find it anywhere wasn't [TS]

  available netflix couldn't buy it on DVD [TS]

  couldn't get it was only in the film [TS]

  festival circuit so finally it is coming [TS]

  out on DVD I think this week so you can [TS]

  go to amazon.com I should put a link in [TS]

  the show notes to the People vs George [TS]

  Lucas I haven't seen it yet but I assume [TS]

  I will enjoy it one more bit here last [TS]

  show we talked about the TiVo premiere [TS]

  Elite his new series for upgrade of TiVo [TS]

  and upgrade to the series for TiVo [TS]

  architecture and I was quoting from an [TS]

  article that I'd found [TS]

  linked to a forum post and I had looked [TS]

  at both of those things but I hadn't [TS]

  done was paged through the entire forum [TS]

  thread apparently the article is written [TS]

  based on the first page or so of the [TS]

  forum thread but if you keep paging [TS]

  through it [TS]

  there are many Corrections offered so in [TS]

  last week's show I said that the the new [TS]

  TiVo premiere elite comes to double the [TS]

  RAM of the previous version apparently [TS]

  it does not the people in the forum [TS]

  thread got confused about megabits [TS]

  versus megabytes or gigabytes versus [TS]

  gigabytes when looking at the part [TS]

  numbers on the RAM so apparently it has [TS]

  the same amount of RAM as the other one [TS]

  and I think it also still has the same [TS]

  CPU and everything so I was trying to [TS]

  find an explanation of why why it's so [TS]

  much faster from the people's reports [TS]

  that they use the menus and the menus [TS]

  feel faster and it is running a newer [TS]

  version of the software and supposedly [TS]

  is compiled with the newer version of [TS]

  the compiler but there's still the [TS]

  outstanding question is is the tebow [TS]

  premier elite faster because the [TS]

  hardware is faster or is it just faster [TS]

  because it has a new version of the [TS]

  software and there's no definitive [TS]

  answer to that yet so I'm curious like [TS]

  if you wait a year dip will the regular [TS]

  TiVo premier get the new version of the [TS]

  software and it will be speedy or - I [TS]

  don't know I was and I was further [TS]

  frustrated by the fact that the tebow [TS]

  premier elite still has no built-in [TS]

  Wi-Fi what century is this they're [TS]

  they're giving you a box that they said [TS]

  they want they want you to buy their [TS]

  their third-party thing yes say it's [TS]

  like sixty bucks or whatever I don't [TS]

  just build it in but they took out the [TS]

  over-the-air HD support the TiVo premier [TS]

  used to be able to decode over-the-air [TS]

  HD signals and record them and [TS]

  everything so they took out all those [TS]

  supporting chips put in a Wi-Fi chip [TS]

  it's got cost two bucks stick it in [TS]

  there please it's it's ridiculous so [TS]

  yeah you have to stuff to buy the dongle [TS]

  so I'm still taking a wait-and-see [TS]

  attitude with the Premier elite I'll let [TS]

  it stew for a little longer before I [TS]

  consider buying one and shifting things [TS]

  around in my house yeah and finally Siri [TS]

  we talked a lot about Syria in the past [TS]

  few episodes and we got a lot of [TS]

  feedback on that did you put these in [TS]

  the show notes or dude I don't even [TS]

  remember any but I think I put that one [TS]

  in there there's a bunch of Siri links [TS]

  there is a one for how Siri works which [TS]

  is kind of inappropriate name is that [TS]

  someone speculating about how it works [TS]

  in terms of how the different components [TS]

  work you don't write [TS]

  get recognized you speak sends it off to [TS]

  a server somewhere after it's translated [TS]

  in as natural language processing but I [TS]

  think it's mostly speculative there's a [TS]

  good blog post from Kieran he really [TS]

  sorry from angling your name Kieran [TS]

  Healy in our chat room about Syrian [TS]

  practice what Siri is like for him to [TS]

  use and it goes through a whole bunch of [TS]

  situations where stuff that you would [TS]

  think stuff the mumps some people might [TS]

  think would work ends up not working so [TS]

  for example I have to use the exact [TS]

  wording from these examples here because [TS]

  it sounds too vague if you don't so if [TS]

  you make let's see let's find a good [TS]

  example if you make a calendar entry [TS]

  that says Kieran volunteers at school [TS]

  right that's that's the name of your [TS]

  thing your entry in the calendar and if [TS]

  you ask Siri when do I volunteer at [TS]

  school it has no idea what you're [TS]

  talking about if you ask it when does [TS]

  Kieran volunteer at school no idea [TS]

  they're just as Google searches for like [TS]

  I found eleven schools nearby all right [TS]

  if you say when is Kieran volunteers at [TS]

  school which sounds unnatural but [TS]

  apparently that's the phrasing that it [TS]

  wants then it will find it and it's a [TS]

  similar example if you make an [TS]

  appointment that just says dentist which [TS]

  is very similar to the appointments I [TS]

  tried to make my things on my calendar [TS]

  is like one word launch but you know 2 [TS]

  p.m. dentist right if you have a dentist [TS]

  you can't say when is my dentist [TS]

  appointment it won't find that and I [TS]

  guess even worse in this example his one [TS]

  that says when does lorry traveled to [TS]

  New York right if you have an event [TS]

  called travel to New York it doesn't [TS]

  doesn't find it so you say when do I [TS]

  travel to New York still isn't find it [TS]

  when do I go to New York no good even in [TS]

  this case when you say when is travel to [TS]

  New York which is exactly the the [TS]

  construction that worked before man it [TS]

  still doesn't work it's a Google search [TS]

  all these examples would work with a [TS]

  human right because at the context of [TS]

  say look is there any events anywhere [TS]

  and the near future that anything to do [TS]

  with New York like a human would figure [TS]

  it out but Siri does not and the fact [TS]

  that Siri does so well in so many other [TS]

  contexts can make even people who [TS]

  and that it's not actually real AI [TS]

  expectations these things working and if [TS]

  you if you end up having to say those [TS]

  four different phrasings [TS]

  and doesn't work all those times that's [TS]

  when you start to question like I'm [TS]

  actually being more efficient or numb [TS]

  and now am I playing a game by playing a [TS]

  game with this Siri thing but don't you [TS]

  think John that it's just a matter of [TS]

  time before the refinements and [TS]

  enhancements of that get better I mean [TS]

  right now we're starting with something [TS]

  that's you know very very new [TS]

  I won't don't you expect it whether it's [TS]

  six months or a year from now two years [TS]

  from now that little little things like [TS]

  the way that you phrase it won't won't [TS]

  they figure that out won't they update [TS]

  it won't they make sure in five to ten [TS]

  years is nothing to ten is that you're [TS]

  saying I always tell you fine again no [TS]

  whenever you ask any question about AI [TS]

  they say yeah in five to ten years we'll [TS]

  have a statistical and they've been [TS]

  saying that since 1972 [TS]

  all right well see what I think Siri is [TS]

  more like as game development so in game [TS]

  development you have a lot of similar [TS]

  situations or you want to have enemies [TS]

  in a game exhibiting intelligent [TS]

  behavior and providing you with the good [TS]

  with a good battle and with the advent [TS]

  of multiplayer gaming in the past two [TS]

  decades this has become less important [TS]

  but it's still there the pathfinding how [TS]

  they work as a group how they react to [TS]

  your actions the way game developers do [TS]

  it is they cheat [TS]

  that's what game development is all [TS]

  about it's like moviemaking you have to [TS]

  you have to cheat you have to do [TS]

  something that's actually really very [TS]

  simple especially in game development [TS]

  you have very little cpu resources and [TS]

  stuff to spare because you're using it [TS]

  on all the other stuff that you're doing [TS]

  so you can't do some sort of deep [TS]

  academic AI that thinks for 20 seconds [TS]

  you have like 160 milliseconds to make [TS]

  all your AI decisions for all your [TS]

  enemies on the screen or whatever they [TS]

  come up with heuristics and things that [TS]

  are not easy for you as the player to [TS]

  figure out what's going on but that make [TS]

  the enemies appear to be like a little [TS]

  bit more intelligent and that's what [TS]

  series got to end up doing because [TS]

  that's the actual solution solving the [TS]

  real problem like actually making [TS]

  something that understands what you're [TS]

  talking about is way way way harder than [TS]

  anything that's going to happen probably [TS]

  in our lifetimes it's the problem that [TS]

  have been worked on academia for all of [TS]

  our lives and will continue long after [TS]

  we're gone and it's really really hard [TS]

  but you can make something that use [TS]

  you know cheats and hacks and other [TS]

  things that are not that nothing to do [TS]

  with the way the human thinks or and [TS]

  really don't exhibit any sort of [TS]

  understanding in our sense but they give [TS]

  you the right answer Watson is a great [TS]

  example that Watson has no idea what [TS]

  that it's doing doesn't have any [TS]

  awareness of you know it's a bunch of [TS]

  really smart heuristics that happens to [TS]

  win the game of Jeopardy right but if [TS]

  you pose just an arbitrary question to [TS]

  Watson or if you replace Siri with [TS]

  Watson it would probably do better [TS]

  because Watson has way more computing [TS]

  resources but it would probably be [TS]

  slower because Watson is a little bit [TS]

  slower than Syria I think but those type [TS]

  of hacks and cheats where we're not [TS]

  trying to make something that's [TS]

  intelligent we're not trying to make [TS]

  something that's even as smart as a [TS]

  cockroach like we're not we're not doing [TS]

  that we're trying to make something that [TS]

  performs the function that we want Siri [TS]

  to perform in a way that seems amazing [TS]

  but may have nothing to do with the way [TS]

  human would form the same task and [TS]

  that's how I think Siri will advance [TS]

  it's not as if like well in a few years [TS]

  they'll figure it out in Siri will be [TS]

  awesome and it'll be able to understand [TS]

  us no but in a few years they'll make [TS]

  their AI better in the same way the game [TS]

  AI has gotten better in the same period [TS]

  of time because they have similar [TS]

  resource constraints you don't have like [TS]

  a giant supercomputer dedicated you you [TS]

  need your answer right now and they have [TS]

  a similarly narrowly defined set of [TS]

  things they need to do doesn't need to [TS]

  be a general purpose thing it you know [TS]

  has to know about reminders and events [TS]

  and the few things that exist in the [TS]

  world of the phone and the things you [TS]

  can do with phone just like Watson just [TS]

  doesn't know about Jeopardy questions [TS]

  right now Watson doesn't need to solve [TS]

  calculus problems if you pose a calculus [TS]

  problem - it will not give you the [TS]

  answer because that's not Jeopardy [TS]

  questions never ask things like that so [TS]

  I think Siri will get better but there [TS]

  was another link in the show notes I [TS]

  think I put this one in here from the [TS]

  formerly not lead iPhone developer of [TS]

  the standalone Syria application back [TS]

  when and it was an app because I guess [TS]

  before Apple bought them and one of the [TS]

  headings of his article is how Siri is [TS]

  not really it's called it's not really [TS]

  AI as a heading of a section where he's [TS]

  backing up my point of view and my [TS]

  particular definition of AI where when [TS]

  he says it's not really AI he means the [TS]

  same things I do it's not AI the way [TS]

  science fiction thinks of AI as and it's [TS]

  really intelligent it's artificial and [TS]

  it's trying to be intelligent but it's [TS]

  not AI a [TS]

  so with all the people telling me oh of [TS]

  course it's artificial intelligence is [TS]

  artificial and is trying to be [TS]

  intelligent that's not the definition [TS]

  that you're using it's also not the [TS]

  definition that the person who created [TS]

  Siri is using or developed at any we're [TS]

  talking very much about something that [TS]

  is self-aware okay not didn't need [TS]

  self-awareness just now something as [TS]

  smart as a toddler where you could [TS]

  converse with it like you converse for [TS]

  the with a toddler with or with a [TS]

  five-year-old right we're I think [TS]

  speaking of cockroach or the last time I [TS]

  looked into the AI field that was about [TS]

  the level of intelligence we felt like [TS]

  we were able to accurately simulate [TS]

  cockroach [TS]

  yeah like very very simple stimulus very [TS]

  simple reactions and even that is [TS]

  debatable it's like well that actually [TS]

  the cockroach exhibits much more much [TS]

  more sophisticated behavior than your [TS]

  program but yeah [TS]

  so that's I think that's demand more [TS]

  links for Siri let me see you put this [TS]

  one in with Andy Rubin yeah talk about [TS]

  your phone should not be an assistant [TS]

  and all I did when I saw that link was [TS]

  just added a link below it to a Gruber's [TS]

  take on that because bridge I grew with [TS]

  hundred percent he's like what what else [TS]

  is he going to say that's what Gruber [TS]

  said and during horrible you know [TS]

  another product has a headline feature [TS]

  and he he's not going to say yeah that's [TS]

  actually pretty good that's just not how [TS]

  competition works yeah sort of like when [TS]

  when the Android had all this great [TS]

  voice support and the iPhone didn't if [TS]

  you were if you could ever get a comment [TS]

  from an Apple person you would say what [TS]

  do you think all this voice stuff the [TS]

  Google's doing you know and in Android [TS]

  anyplace in the UI you can just speak in [TS]

  your dictation and stuff like that and [TS]

  they would have had if Apple was willing [TS]

  to comment at all they would have had to [TS]

  come up with some sort of answer and and [TS]

  I'm sure they were tried to say [TS]

  something bad like well we think that [TS]

  technology is not quite ready and if we [TS]

  were to do we would do it in a different [TS]

  better way or I don't know you always [TS]

  say something that's not so nice to your [TS]

  competition and a Gruber's example was [TS]

  how Jobs would always poopoo things [TS]

  before Apple did them like oh no we [TS]

  don't want video on an iPod it's too [TS]

  small to watch and then when they do it [TS]

  no well actually what Apple would says [TS]

  nobody wants to watch a video on it [TS]

  on a small screen yeah or nobody want [TS]

  the the e-book thing like all people [TS]

  that read anymore [TS]

  it's BS pointless and then they come [TS]

  with iBooks and they make no mention of [TS]

  that so that's just this is competition [TS]

  I don't put anything into that you know [TS]

  you shouldn't be talking to your phone [TS]

  um eventually Android volt and I think [TS]

  Google is actually head-on a lot of [TS]

  these things I'm surprised they didn't [TS]

  phrase that differently because Google [TS]

  has clearly been really into the voice [TS]

  support and all that stuff yeah there's [TS]

  been for a long time voice support in [TS]

  Android and in fact I remember when when [TS]

  the first signs of Siri coming out were [TS]

  were there that you know it was out [TS]

  people were immediately saying which is [TS]

  better Siri or Android now I also want [TS]

  to make a distinction is that their Siri [TS]

  and then there's I don't know if you [TS]

  would call it dictation or speech yeah [TS]

  because you can go into any of Apple's [TS]

  apps and any place where there is text [TS]

  entry where there little keyboard slides [TS]

  up you now also have a little microphone [TS]

  so you can tap the microphone and just [TS]

  dictate and it has a it has a little [TS]

  microphone so you tap you tap the little [TS]

  microphone button and in place of the [TS]

  keyboard there comes up a little just a [TS]

  little a bigger button and you can it [TS]

  which has a microphone on it you tap [TS]

  that you start talking you tap it again [TS]

  when you're done talking and it very [TS]

  very very quickly very quickly now I [TS]

  understand it's still using they're [TS]

  still using the internet it's still [TS]

  sending that out for processing it's not [TS]

  happening locally on the phone or at [TS]

  least most of its not but it sends that [TS]

  out to the internet and comes back very [TS]

  quickly with the this speech to text you [TS]

  know dictate dictation and then you have [TS]

  your text message or your email or [TS]

  whatever it was that you were composing [TS]

  I feel like there's a differentiation [TS]

  like to me and maybe there isn't maybe [TS]

  there isn't a distinction but to me I [TS]

  would almost want to say that's not Siri [TS]

  because it's just doing the [TS]

  text-to-speech it's err speech-to-text [TS]

  rather it's not doing there's no [TS]

  figuring out what I mean there's no [TS]

  taking an action or trying to provide [TS]

  answer or looking anything up it's just [TS]

  saying I heard these sounds and I'm [TS]

  making them into text for you well it's [TS]

  half of because that's an important part [TS]

  of Syria like I think nuance there using [TS]

  the nuance stuff and nuance is the ones [TS]

  that do Dragon Dictate and everything so [TS]

  that's their rest their speech [TS]

  recognition engine and then they have [TS]

  the language processing engine that [TS]

  figures out what to do right so but [TS]

  without that first half obviously Siri [TS]

  would not be useful so using the word [TS]

  Siri described it as that's the [TS]

  analogous lazy branding is an [TS]

  interesting way to say it but the thing [TS]

  about the dictation that I think about [TS]

  is that so I have the dragon or I have [TS]

  Mac speech dictator dragon dictator [TS]

  whatever whatever they renamed it to [TS]

  when nuance bought the mac speech guys [TS]

  and it uses the nuance speech [TS]

  recognition engine it even did before [TS]

  they bought them I think they just [TS]

  licensed it and you have to train it [TS]

  when you buy it you have to read through [TS]

  this 5-minute thing where you read and [TS]

  it and it you know it highlights words [TS]

  as you read them and that eventually [TS]

  learns your voice and saves a voice [TS]

  profile that's tied to both you and your [TS]

  microphone so this is you and the iPhone [TS]

  obviously doesn't have that training [TS]

  period you just take it out of the box [TS]

  and you can go into a Notes app and hit [TS]

  the little microphone things start [TS]

  talking and it'll make text and and like [TS]

  within Siri you can say well the [TS]

  vocabulary is constrained is just [TS]

  reminders and events and whatever else [TS]

  you can do with Siri but within just [TS]

  generic dictation you could say anything [TS]

  you want I know there is a sort of [TS]

  natural language processing component of [TS]

  speech recognition it's not just saying [TS]

  what what sounds did you make and what [TS]

  word corresponds them it knows the [TS]

  context it knows well usually after this [TS]

  word this word is more likely to come in [TS]

  that word you know they both sound the [TS]

  same now what's the Rex a nice Beach [TS]

  every other one wrec is a nice beach [TS]

  instead of recognized speech [TS]

  depending on how you slow they can sound [TS]

  very similar but one sentence is much [TS]

  more likely than the other and so there [TS]

  is and that Siri does the same thing [TS]

  like in this context following the [TS]

  things they've said previously what word [TS]

  is a small most likely and and it has a [TS]

  constrained vocabulary so even within [TS]

  the world of dictation there's some kind [TS]

  of Siri like intelligence where is [TS]

  that's just how the nuance speech [TS]

  dictation works it's not just convert [TS]

  sound to word in isolation [TS]

  it's consider everything that has been [TS]

  said before and after and what is the [TS]

  most likely sentence that comes out of [TS]

  this so [TS]

  it's kind of fair to label all that as [TS]

  Siri and yeah I can get back to Google [TS]

  they've been gung ho for this for a long [TS]

  time on the Google homepage I think on [TS]

  the web browser if you're using Chrome [TS]

  or whatever this little microphone icon [TS]

  you can just dictate right into it they [TS]

  they love this kind of they've got the [TS]

  self-driving cars too crying out loud [TS]

  obviously this is right up Google's [TS]

  alley else or it's not as if Google is [TS]

  going is not interested in this field if [TS]

  anything they were ahead in this field [TS]

  and Apple in typical fashion simply [TS]

  packaged it better and got out ahead [TS]

  with just the parts that are the most [TS]

  attractive to users not worrying so much [TS]

  about self-driving cars for now right [TS]

  the sponsors for sponsors right up your [TS]

  alley John [TS]

  game minder do you game you can do this [TS]

  app is for you this app game minder [TS]

  knows when apps are coming out games [TS]

  everything so you don't have to worry [TS]

  about it you hear about a game even if [TS]

  it's years away you search for it in [TS]

  game minder you use the reminder app and [TS]

  a little let you know when it's coming [TS]

  out so you can just keep playing xbox [TS]

  ps3 Wii PC Mac iOS even these new what [TS]

  does this one called PlayStation Vita [TS]

  Vita and I don't know how to pronounce [TS]

  it anyway they and they get the inside [TS]

  scoop on stuff so that's their first app [TS]

  game dot miner the second one is read [TS]

  dot minor so iOS gives you this [TS]

  reminders app but if you want more [TS]

  features if you want them tied into game [TS]

  minder if you want a more advanced [TS]

  schedule more customization reminder has [TS]

  that and even better is reminder Pro [TS]

  Plus which is the the Mac Daddy app well [TS]

  for all week long for just four 5x5 [TS]

  listeners they've dropped the price of [TS]

  reminder Pro Plus it's on sale 50% off [TS]

  so you can search for read minder in the [TS]

  iTunes Store or you can just go to 5x5 [TS]

  dot TV slash hypercritical slash 39 for [TS]

  this episode and the link will be there [TS]

  that's our first sponsor thanks to [TS]

  Hannah lumber you know that game [TS]

  reminder app that's a very an [TS]

  application of its time because it's [TS]

  kind of so it's going to remind you [TS]

  about games like you hold this game [TS]

  coming out I want to I want to not [TS]

  forget when that comes out so you're [TS]

  enough of a gamer to know that a game is [TS]

  coming out ahead of time and to be [TS]

  excited enough about it that you would [TS]

  be annoyed if you forgot about it but [TS]

  you're not hard [TS]

  or enough of a gamer to be constantly [TS]

  playing games like well of course I [TS]

  would never forget about that so it's [TS]

  basically people like us who were big [TS]

  gamers when we were younger but now you [TS]

  have a family and responsibilities and [TS]

  stuff like that it's it's the casual [TS]

  hardcore gamer you would be a hardcore [TS]

  gamer if you have the free time you had [TS]

  when you were in your teens or 20s or [TS]

  whatever but now you have more [TS]

  responsibilities but you don't want to [TS]

  miss that great game so you you have an [TS]

  application that is going to remind you [TS]

  of it [TS]

  I think of things like that all the time [TS]

  although in one particular case I've [TS]

  been waiting for a game for like three [TS]

  years now it's killing me and I don't [TS]

  need a reminder for it but sometimes I I [TS]

  lose track of when it's supposed to be [TS]

  coming out that game is a Last Guardian [TS]

  from the team the made I go and shout [TS]

  out the closets coarsely possibly eco [TS]

  depending on how you pronounce it people [TS]

  can read and tell me uh but yeah I've [TS]

  been waiting play game forever and I [TS]

  just asked the people who are more up on [TS]

  games I wanted when did they say that's [TS]

  coming out now I've got delay it again [TS]

  or whatever so yeah the that application [TS]

  for the casual hardcore gamer they can [TS]

  use that line if they like although I [TS]

  think it's probably insulting to most [TS]

  people but anyway I think it's very [TS]

  useful what do we have and one more [TS]

  thing on Siri we're talking about using [TS]

  Siri with Apple TV and problems inherent [TS]

  in that setup where the thing is far [TS]

  away from you but it has to understand [TS]

  your speech and it could be other people [TS]

  talking in the room mostly I was [TS]

  thinking of it is a way a way to solve [TS]

  the input problem because the input [TS]

  options for a television are not very [TS]

  rich they just remote control with a [TS]

  couple buttons or directional control [TS]

  and especially for things like you just [TS]

  want to turn it on and show some movie [TS]

  for the kid people say well the room is [TS]

  going to be too noisy and you don't want [TS]

  to have an expensive thing like an iPod [TS]

  to be used what can you do a couple of [TS]

  suggestions were like well put a little [TS]

  microphone in the remote my main [TS]

  suggestion was just you know pair it all [TS]

  down and go simple and say look it's not [TS]

  always listening to you you have to [TS]

  press a button to make it listen you [TS]

  have to talk right into a thing and you [TS]

  would be done and you can't do it when [TS]

  the television is on people like well [TS]

  what if the television is playing some [TS]

  show and it interprets the speech on the [TS]

  show as commands and people say well you [TS]

  could cancel the audio out because it [TS]

  knows what it's emitting so I'm sort of [TS]

  like a carrier sense multiple access in [TS]

  Ethernet where it would say well I'm [TS]

  emitting this and if you know I can [TS]

  cancel out what I'm emitting and see if [TS]

  anything else was on the line it you [TS]

  know in the air [TS]

  there are lots of technical solutions [TS]

  but I would simplify it I would just say [TS]

  if you can't do it when the television [TS]

  is playing and you have to talk right [TS]

  into a thing you have to activate a mode [TS]

  for it and even that alone which is very [TS]

  primitive it's just easier to you know [TS]

  pick up the thing and say play cars and [TS]

  have it play the cars movie instead we [TS]

  have to navigate through 50 menus and [TS]

  launch some application and find the [TS]

  cars movie for you or you know record [TS]

  the Cowboys game tonight or something to [TS]

  use herbage favorite team it'll be [TS]

  that's which we had some syrian telogen [TS]

  swear it can figure out the cow who the [TS]

  cowboys are if there's any programs in [TS]

  the upcoming schedule for the night that [TS]

  have anything to do with cowboys or you [TS]

  know that you could add some [TS]

  intelligence to make that work it's [TS]

  easier than flipping through the thing [TS]

  and trying to find the show you want to [TS]

  record so I still think there's [TS]

  potential for this I did like the idea [TS]

  of putting a microphone in the remote [TS]

  and basically my my strategy would be [TS]

  don't try to do something really [TS]

  complicated make it very simple very [TS]

  constrained very limited and it would [TS]

  still be better than using a little [TS]

  Direction pad to go see [TS]

  oh I've left up top down down right ride [TS]

  Oh up up down down left left right you [TS]

  know [TS]

  that's annoying we hate that end and I [TS]

  wouldn't suggest as the Google TV things [TS]

  we'll just give them a keyboard and [TS]

  we'll put the no I don't want to [TS]

  keyboard on my couch I don't want a [TS]

  slider remote that opens up into a [TS]

  keyboard it would be nice if you could [TS]

  just talk to it and it would work and [TS]

  someone made a web page with a mock-up [TS]

  of that by the way that's I haven't any [TS]

  show notes yeah I think that's it for [TS]

  follow up be sure unless you had [TS]

  anything else from now no I want to get [TS]

  on to the new stuff the good the good [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  hi the next thing I have is that's kind [TS]

  of follow up you so I want to talk a [TS]

  little bit I clawed a little bit more [TS]

  about iCloud well you know I got the [TS]

  phones showed up last Friday week ago [TS]

  and I've had a week to experiment with [TS]

  iCloud things I don't know if I'll be [TS]

  able to answer all of your questions but [TS]

  I imagine you've also been experimenting [TS]

  with it there right yeah in a limited [TS]

  fashion mostly this is a reaction to [TS]

  listening to back to work where Merlin [TS]

  when off on iCloud a little bit.i and [TS]

  listening to his experiences because he [TS]

  was brave enough to use the beta switch [TS]

  I never was I was like I'm not putting [TS]

  any of my data you know I did I didn't [TS]

  either register for I club with a new [TS]

  Apple ID during the lion beta just to [TS]

  see what it was like but that was such a [TS]

  long time ago and I never put any of my [TS]

  real data into it it was just me [TS]

  fiddling around with stuff but he's [TS]

  tried to put his real data into it and [TS]

  run into all sorts of weird issues and [TS]

  one of his big objections was that he [TS]

  seems to have no it's not trustworthy [TS]

  and it's not as trustworthy as Dropbox [TS]

  because he's not ever sure what's going [TS]

  on in that other place he can see what's [TS]

  on his devices and on his Mac but he's [TS]

  never sure if it wasn't there until you [TS]

  looked as kind of a shorteners cat kind [TS]

  of situation where I said well if I [TS]

  didn't look at that Pages document I [TS]

  just boarded a plane when I was on the [TS]

  plane I tried to pull up the Pages [TS]

  document would it not be there and it [TS]

  would try to fetch it at that point [TS]

  which point doesn't have it versus [TS]

  Dropbox Regis looks a little icons he's [TS]

  the checkbox and checkmark on the menu [TS]

  bar icon and knows it's got everything [TS]

  it's all synced you know that was the [TS]

  great title bed episode it's never not [TS]

  everywhere whereas with iCloud he's not [TS]

  so sure and I got him to likely know if [TS]

  you wanted to lead a photo from your [TS]

  photo stream there's no way to do that [TS]

  you got to reset the whole stream and [TS]

  that is not ideal and I think I talked [TS]

  about a little bit how it was more like [TS]

  a conduit and they weren't they didn't [TS]

  want you to have it's not a place you're [TS]

  supposed to think of like it's more like [TS]

  they just wanted to appear on all your [TS]

  devices they want it to work the way [TS]

  Dropbox works but when it doesn't you [TS]

  don't have as much of an a mechanism to [TS]

  reach into that middle place and see [TS]

  what's there I manipulate it right now [TS]

  what I want to say about this is [TS]

  something I was going to do an iCloud [TS]

  section in my line review and I cut it [TS]

  but what I would have put in there is my [TS]

  understanding of the iCloud philosophy [TS]

  from talking to people WWC and going to [TS]

  sessions and stuff like that and how it [TS]

  how it is different than the MobileMe [TS]

  philosophy you know I don't know if you [TS]

  did use mommy syncing a lot not I mean [TS]

  early on I did a few years ago but I I [TS]

  stopped using mobile me when I mean [TS]

  certainly by the time Dropbox was out I [TS]

  stopped using it because I wasn't you [TS]

  know I'm kind of weird I guess in that I [TS]

  don't use a lot of bookmarks there's [TS]

  only a handful of them it's not like I [TS]

  and I have that many machines I want to [TS]

  sync them back and forth to and that was [TS]

  for me that was the big selling point of [TS]

  mobile me I never used I disk I never [TS]

  used the photo albums anyway so what's [TS]

  left I mean the stinking stuff I mean it [TS]

  was great thinking address book syncing [TS]

  it in doing those uh you know I don't do [TS]

  a lot with keychain generally speaking [TS]

  because I use one password address books [TS]

  thinking you could do with Google uh so [TS]

  there really wasn't that much value of [TS]

  it for for value there for me after a [TS]

  while so I had stopped doing it [TS]

  but it sounds like Merlin was actually [TS]

  trying to use I disk which is braver [TS]

  than I was but I had such a bad [TS]

  experience with a disk yeah and I did I [TS]

  did keychain syncing I still do keychain [TS]

  syncing your Jimbo's thinking which [TS]

  Gruber mentioned that he uses as well [TS]

  and that the thing about mobile me [TS]

  sinking is it was so is very similar [TS]

  experience work although I should you [TS]

  know there's an API just like iCloud [TS]

  where the applications can use this API [TS]

  and you could choose on which machine [TS]

  you might which things to be synced to [TS]

  with a little compression Spain and the [TS]

  little I kind of desktop the shows when [TS]

  it's syncing stuff but the key [TS]

  difference is that the mobile me and the [TS]

  Sync Services Inc infrastructure that's [TS]

  built on I think syncs the sync services [TS]

  predate mobile me maybe it was in a dot [TS]

  Mac based to but I don't know it's all [TS]

  the same thing same thing the underlying [TS]

  architecture was that the sync stuff [TS]

  would run and so if you is pretend [TS]

  everything is in sync and then you go on [TS]

  one machine that's disconnected from the [TS]

  internet and you and you change [TS]

  somebody's phone numbered end and a four [TS]

  and you want another machine and you [TS]

  change that same guy's phone number ten [TS]

  to the five right then when you sync [TS]

  those two machines on one of them are [TS]

  possibly both of them you get dialog [TS]

  that says well one of these machines [TS]

  thinks this number should be a four and [TS]

  the other one thinks it should be a five [TS]

  which one is right you'd be presented [TS]

  with the conflict resolution dialog you [TS]

  remember that thing yes we would show it [TS]

  would basically show your computer as a [TS]

  five but dot Mac has a four choose one [TS]

  right and then it was a checkbox at the [TS]

  bottom that says make the same decision [TS]

  for all them so if you decided Mac was [TS]

  canonical like oh I'm sure what's on dot [TS]

  Mac is what I really want so you could [TS]

  just say don't don't ask me about these [TS]

  during the sync process just go through [TS]

  the rest of them and just take what that [TS]

  Mac has [TS]

  but if you're paranoid you go through [TS]

  each one automatic has this and you have [TS]

  that it would also prompt you who were [TS]

  going to change a certain percentage of [TS]

  the things like I'm about to change more [TS]

  than 20% of your contacts let me bring [TS]

  up this dialog it says are you sure you [TS]

  want to do this here's what it looks [TS]

  like though Mac has these contacts and [TS]

  you have these right Yojimbo was a great [TS]

  torture test for sync services I don't [TS]

  know if you call it great Apple to call [TS]

  it great but your Jimbo is this sort of [TS]

  I know you'd call it like a shoebox [TS]

  application where you can just put [TS]

  anything in there you can put captures [TS]

  of webpages bookmarks rich text [TS]

  documents I think this PDF so all sorts [TS]

  of stuff you can throw in your Jimbo and [TS]

  some of these can be very large even [TS]

  just a big capture of a very long [TS]

  webpage but it will save all the images [TS]

  associated with a webpage and the whole [TS]

  thing it would like you know get like a [TS]

  web archive of it right and when your [TS]

  Jimbo came out what you'd get was the [TS]

  dialog would come up and say you know [TS]

  dot Mac has this and your Mac has that [TS]

  and what it would show is a giant [TS]

  hexadecimal dump of binary data of like [TS]

  three megabytes of binary did and if it [TS]

  was over a certain size you get the [TS]

  spinning beach ball right in front of [TS]

  that review and dialogue and you'd never [TS]

  be able to do anything so now you're [TS]

  stuck you can't sink your Mac because [TS]

  the sink services can't handle the [TS]

  volume of data it's being asked to to [TS]

  review the changes too and it wouldn't [TS]

  matter anyway because you can't make [TS]

  heads or tails of this hex dump all you [TS]

  can really look at is the dates and say [TS]

  oh yeah I remember I changed that over [TS]

  there and I should replace it on this [TS]

  Mac you know that experience all right [TS]

  part of that is bugs right same services [TS]

  not being good part of that is design [TS]

  where they didn't have an interface [TS]

  where the applications could provide a [TS]

  piece of code that would say I know how [TS]

  to display Yojimbo documents so when [TS]

  someone asks for diff on your jimbo [TS]

  document use my code and splice diff you [TS]

  know the same services would just fall [TS]

  back to oh here's a binary dump make [TS]

  sense of that good luck so that was a [TS]

  feature missed [TS]

  missing features there and so they [TS]

  sorted out the performance eventually [TS]

  much thanks I'm sure to Yojimbo and all [TS]

  of its users torture testing it and you [TS]

  know back and forth between Apple and [TS]

  bare-bones to get that working and now [TS]

  does work really well and I don't get [TS]

  those dialogues anymore and it certainly [TS]

  doesn't beachball and freeze anymore [TS]

  that took many years to get to though in [TS]

  many years involving all sorts of as [TS]

  Merlin pointed strange incantations to [TS]

  reset things in the MobileMe side [TS]

  including the super secret apple [TS]

  internal applications that can [TS]

  a hard hard reset of your MobileMe state [TS]

  to just wipe everything clean not a fun [TS]

  experience right now but but the big [TS]

  design change that the Apple decided was [TS]

  a mistake with MobileMe with ever [TS]

  presenting the user with a dialogue that [TS]

  to resolve a conflict because then [TS]

  you're making them make a choice and no [TS]

  matter how good you make that decision [TS]

  and how much information you provide [TS]

  you've got a custom UI they could show [TS]

  you exactly the differences or whatever [TS]

  regular users are not like programmers [TS]

  they don't want to see a side-by-side [TS]

  diff and make a decision and so how do [TS]

  you get how do you get rid of that but [TS]

  still deal with the situation when you [TS]

  have one computer that changed the phone [TS]

  number ten with the for one computer [TS]

  changed em with the five what's what's [TS]

  the answer obviously there has to be [TS]

  some winner there because they the same [TS]

  phone number can't be you know to have [TS]

  two different endings right so the [TS]

  iCloud philosophy is don't ever show [TS]

  anyone a dialog box to ask them to make [TS]

  a decision and that's in keeping with [TS]

  Apple's philosophy of just not [TS]

  presenting options and just it's [TS]

  annoying like don't don't bother me with [TS]

  this I don't want to hear about it right [TS]

  but to make sure you know and then [TS]

  iCloud basically has to pick a winner [TS]

  but to make sure you don't screw the [TS]

  user over like say you pick the wrong [TS]

  thing icon philosophy seems to be if you [TS]

  have two things that conflict in some [TS]

  way they're big hammer to solve this is [TS]

  versioning so pick a winner [TS]

  push loser onto the stack of versions [TS]

  and then push the winner on to the stack [TS]

  of versions so no prompts no information [TS]

  no decisions you're being asked to mate [TS]

  that's why this can happen when you're [TS]

  not in front of the thing like it can [TS]

  sync to your phones by push to know that [TS]

  you know the device could have the [TS]

  screen turned off is laying on your desk [TS]

  right you don't want to pick up your [TS]

  phone and turn on have 50 dialog saying [TS]

  for you to resolve conflicts right it [TS]

  says I'm just going to pick a winner [TS]

  based on some simple heuristic like you [TS]

  know the least most recently updated or [TS]

  whatever it rules they decide but [TS]

  doesn't really matter because I the [TS]

  loser I pushed on to the stack of [TS]

  different versions and your application [TS]

  and the api's you're supposed to provide [TS]

  you with a way to get back that old [TS]

  version if you decide wait a second [TS]

  what's going on here right ah and in the [TS]

  WEC keynote they didn't emphasize this [TS]

  as much as they emphasized the other [TS]

  thing which was there's no place you go [TS]

  or app you run or thing you do for [TS]

  iCloud it's built into your applications [TS]

  so their ideal scenario is the [TS]

  applications them [TS]

  elves do the hard work to implement all [TS]

  this functionality to like oh how do I [TS]

  get back my previous version you know to [TS]

  pull the sync versions when I make a [TS]

  change I push it down to the cloud when [TS]

  they launch the application pull the [TS]

  changes from the cloud all this business [TS]

  make it in the application so there's no [TS]

  other place to go and it just seems to [TS]

  magically work that's the ideal scenario [TS]

  but as marilyn is finding that relies on [TS]

  all the applications doing all this [TS]

  fancy stuff and even Apple zones [TS]

  applications maybe making decisions [TS]

  about how to implement this stuff that [TS]

  are different so if pages for example if [TS]

  if you can only get your pages documents [TS]

  by launching pages and if you don't [TS]

  launch pages it hasn't synced with the [TS]

  cloud that's bad because that's not what [TS]

  that's not what Merlin expects it that's [TS]

  not how Dropbox would work because [TS]

  Dropbox is always running all right so [TS]

  they're trying to balance the need to [TS]

  have some always running third-party [TS]

  applications syncing all your files with [TS]

  the idea that they don't want it to be a [TS]

  thing that you deal with they don't want [TS]

  any decisions they don't want a third [TS]

  thing that you deal with our place that [TS]

  you go they don't want an eye sync [TS]

  application that you launch and hit a [TS]

  sync button they don't even want like a [TS]

  little sync process that appears they [TS]

  just want it to all be transparent but [TS]

  when you violate some assumption like [TS]

  the network is always available and you [TS]

  board a plane and you try to get your [TS]

  pages documented it's not there that's [TS]

  an upsetting experience of people like [TS]

  Marilyn and me and you I'm sure would [TS]

  like to have enough control to say [TS]

  alright I know enough about the [TS]

  internals to know that before I board [TS]

  this plane make sure my Dropbox is [TS]

  synced and then I'll know I'll have [TS]

  everything you know I see the little [TS]

  checkmark I'm good to go on the plane [TS]

  because I've got all the stuff locally [TS]

  it's an implementation detail that you [TS]

  understand right versus hiding this all [TS]

  and having nothing visible to anybody [TS]

  and not being sure well is there [TS]

  background process in iOS 5 that's [TS]

  pulling these things I think there is [TS]

  for photostream but is it does it pull [TS]

  pages documents or do I have to launch [TS]

  pages and maybe I should just launch [TS]

  pages to be safe and even when you [TS]

  launch pages if you saw your document [TS]

  listed another implementation detail [TS]

  could be oh well pages just pulled the [TS]

  metadata from iCloud it didn't pull the [TS]

  documents this is something that I [TS]

  thought does by the way because it wants [TS]

  to be parsimonious with its usage of the [TS]

  the network and everything and so it may [TS]

  only pull the metadata oh yeah this [TS]

  document this is how big it is and [TS]

  here's like a preview image but you [TS]

  don't have the [TS]

  until you open the documents oh yeah you [TS]

  get into this paranoia mode very like [TS]

  let me just make sure I have everything [TS]

  okay load it or did it load everything [TS]

  or maybe the only loaded the first page [TS]

  I mean maybe I should scroll through the [TS]

  thing [TS]

  it obviously it's us overthinking it but [TS]

  we're overthinking it because we run [TS]

  into situations where stuff is not [TS]

  always everywhere as Merlin put it and [TS]

  so we get paranoid about it as we know [TS]

  about the implementation but this [TS]

  implementation this whole thing with a [TS]

  grab bean or ribbon fingerprinting that [TS]

  I talked about in the lion review is an [TS]

  efficient way to to send and receive [TS]

  just the changes to files and to chunk [TS]

  them up into pieces so you you know the [TS]

  pieces don't all change when a one-bite [TS]

  at the end of the file changes it wasn't [TS]

  shift all the bytes over in the other [TS]

  pieces like they're trying to be [TS]

  efficient about network access and data [TS]

  storage and not constantly running stuff [TS]

  but they're also trying to make it [TS]

  appear like everything is everywhere and [TS]

  there's a conflict between those things [TS]

  and on top of that the never prompting [TS]

  for what you should do so there's not [TS]

  even any place you'd go reset just just [TS]

  pull everything I'm gonna board a plane [TS]

  just anything that's in the cloud I've [TS]

  got an hour before my flight leaves just [TS]

  just pull it all now because I'm on [TS]

  Wi-Fi there's no button for that because [TS]

  there's no place to go for that that's [TS]

  at as designed I think these are all [TS]

  solvable problems and I think Apple did [TS]

  choose the right thing of not prompting [TS]

  people those conflicts and having it all [TS]

  trying to be automated but it's obvious [TS]

  that sometimes the assumptions built [TS]

  into Apple system are being violated [TS]

  like when the network isn't accessible [TS]

  and that sort of breaks the illusion [TS]

  there and I think applications need to [TS]

  be updated to I don't know that needs to [TS]

  be like would you want pages to pull [TS]

  every single when your documents all the [TS]

  time some people would say yes [TS]

  maybe that maybe you have to have some [TS]

  sort of preference at that level or some [TS]

  way for it to do it [TS]

  earthy I'm going to board a plane button [TS]

  or something like that but Apple might [TS]

  say well that's that's an edge case and [TS]

  we don't want that at all and most [TS]

  people are always near a network you [TS]

  know this how many times I offer you on [TS]

  a plane [TS]

  so we'll just pull it on demand because [TS]

  that's the most efficient way to do [TS]

  things it's upsetting to Merlin and it [TS]

  may be upsetting the tech heads I wonder [TS]

  how regular people will feel about the [TS]

  transparency of iCloud I don't know if [TS]

  we have any and maybe guess they if she [TS]

  had it off she's making documents that [TS]

  are being sync to iCloud or how she's [TS]

  experienced this well she's editing that [TS]

  the other show but I'll ask her [TS]

  and it'll be interesting it's going to [TS]

  be a while before anyone in my extended [TS]

  family gets any iOS 5 devices because [TS]

  we're all using older iPods many of [TS]

  which can't be upgraded to that but if [TS]

  they don't have iPhones they're still [TS]

  using mobile me eventually they'll be on [TS]

  iCloud and everything that will be [TS]

  interesting to see it what they think of [TS]

  the syncing experience as I said last [TS]

  week the fact that you can do something [TS]

  on one device like take a picture with [TS]

  your phone and it automatically shows up [TS]

  at your other devices and that part [TS]

  actually works that is like 90% of the [TS]

  battle for regular people I think they [TS]

  didn't have to do anything they just [TS]

  signed and it just magically work and [TS]

  the details about well what if I want to [TS]

  delete it or what if I got on a plane or [TS]

  are my pages documents really there as [TS]

  much as that annoys people like us I [TS]

  think that's probably the 8090 percent [TS]

  solution and those details are not going [TS]

  to be that big of a deal source bits [TS]

  writing software design and development [TS]

  services for iOS Android Mac and the web [TS]

  source bits is at the bleeding edge of [TS]

  emerging technologies their deep [TS]

  experience and successful track record [TS]

  makes it so that you have an idea you [TS]

  and get it done you just go to search [TS]

  pits calm you tell them about it [TS]

  they make it happen you have a webapp [TS]

  piece you have an Android version iOS [TS]

  doesn't matter they just do it they do [TS]

  it all they do it right the first time [TS]

  and they save you money because you [TS]

  don't have to do it twice source bits [TS]

  calm cutting-edge app development I gave [TS]

  him that that's logo slogan not logo [TS]

  slow go I gave them that [TS]

  so generous it's their slow go they can [TS]

  do whatever they want it's theirs [TS]

  they're gonna have to run with this I [TS]

  mean I'm just the idea guy [TS]

  sore spits calm so our remaining time I [TS]

  I guess I'll circle I still don't have [TS]

  time I thought maybe I'd get to the what [TS]

  ails Microsoft probably can't get it [TS]

  give some hints drop some hints oh I'm [TS]

  gonna do a Microsoft topic and will [TS]

  creep up on I'll I still have a little [TS]

  tiny bit of Windows eight stop [TS]

  straggling from way way back four shows [TS]

  ago or something this is a long circle [TS]

  back but events transpired that [TS]

  prevented [TS]

  from coming so I'll try to finish up my [TS]

  thoughts on this Windows 8 video which [TS]

  ought to put in the show notes this was [TS]

  a demonstration of Windows 8 from was it [TS]

  a month ago it's a long time ago talking [TS]

  about the UI the philosophy behind the [TS]

  UI and some of the things behind it so I [TS]

  have at the tail end of those to make I [TS]

  can fit those in here so I think where I [TS]

  left off last time was on contracts I [TS]

  didn't talk about them at all so [TS]

  contracts is a concept in Windows 8 that [TS]

  it allows applications to work together [TS]

  without knowing anything about each [TS]

  other there are lots of technologies on [TS]

  all platforms that fits this description [TS]

  for example the clipboard on the Mac is [TS]

  a mechanism like that you can copy text [TS]

  one application to paste than the other [TS]

  and those two applications those [TS]

  developers need never have known [TS]

  anything about each other never met like [TS]

  this an intermediary they both work with [TS]

  the intermediary in the intermediary [TS]

  does the job of translating between and [TS]

  then mat clipboard does all sorts of [TS]

  stuff with storing different [TS]

  representations like the the sending [TS]

  application will send one or two [TS]

  representations then the receiving [TS]

  application will say which ones that can [TS]

  receive but that's that's a very basic [TS]

  form of having applications work [TS]

  together without knowing anything about [TS]

  each other and that was fairly [TS]

  revolutionary when the Mac came out the [TS]

  idea that you can copy for any [TS]

  application and paste into any other and [TS]

  for some platforms like Linux say that's [TS]

  or it's still revolutionary but that's [TS]

  due to accidents of history maybe those [TS]

  a cheap shot that so contracts in [TS]

  Windows 8 are a richer version of that [TS]

  actually before I get the contracts [TS]

  let's think about how that works in iOS [TS]

  there is a there's the clipboard in iOS [TS]

  right finally where you can copy and [TS]

  paste stuff from one place the other but [TS]

  there's also this weird thing with URL [TS]

  schemes where you can register a URL [TS]

  scheme you just make up one instead of [TS]

  HTTP colon slash slash it's like my cool [TS]

  app name colon slash slash and if you [TS]

  register that with the system then when [TS]

  the regular URL opening API is find an [TS]

  API that begins with that double sale [TS]

  when I see this URL I launch this other [TS]

  app and provide it with this thing and [TS]

  that's a really rudimentary way that you [TS]

  can from one application like you know [TS]

  open a PDF and find any applet well [TS]

  that's slightly different than the thing [TS]

  where they figure out what Apps can [TS]

  understand PDFs but they're very [TS]

  primitive ways by registering URL scheme [TS]

  handlers or by registering with the [TS]

  system [TS]

  kinds of documents that you understand [TS]

  that applications can provide content to [TS]

  each other through this intermediary of [TS]

  the system which knows which [TS]

  applications can handle which pretend [TS]

  protocols and which file right next [TS]

  engine so contracts is a severely [TS]

  cranked up version of that where the [TS]

  middleman isn't just a clipboard and it [TS]

  isn't just a registry of file types and [TS]

  URL schemes [TS]

  it's the middleman with some rich [TS]

  understanding of a few particular things [TS]

  and so you can I think what's one of it [TS]

  what's one of the the contracts here I [TS]

  may find a solid example so this there's [TS]

  a search system service to search things [TS]

  and if an application it is something [TS]

  searchable inside an application an [TS]

  application will write support for the [TS]

  search contract and it will become [TS]

  available as a thing that can be [TS]

  searched and even go so far as to when [TS]

  it brings up the UI for searching stuff [TS]

  if you're searching within your [TS]

  application your application gets a [TS]

  chance to present its content the way it [TS]

  wants to present it or present a UI that [TS]

  makes sense within that application that [TS]

  you know so this is actual UI component [TS]

  actual segments of your own code running [TS]

  to provide this interface I think they [TS]

  do it for settings too I could do for [TS]

  settings as well like so in an iOS where [TS]

  you've got the settings application do [TS]

  you remember when iOS first came out I [TS]

  said oh don't put your preferences in [TS]

  your application right put them all in [TS]

  settings and Mac users were like well I [TS]

  got to leave the application to tell [TS]

  whether I want the background and this [TS]

  thing to be light or dark well I can't [TS]

  just do it within here so now go to the [TS]

  Settings app setting app is actually [TS]

  kind of similar where you write [TS]

  something that defines data structure [TS]

  that the settings application reads and [TS]

  says I'll here's how I can provide [TS]

  settings this other application oh [TS]

  settings in Windows 8 use the contracts [TS]

  thing to provide its their charms on the [TS]

  side or error to provide a centralized [TS]

  UI for all settings and applications [TS]

  right to this the settings contract [TS]

  thing to be able to present their UI in [TS]

  that context instead of just providing [TS]

  data structure that I would actually [TS]

  have a chance to draw things on the [TS]

  screens though now the thing that this [TS]

  contracts I'm probably doing a bad job [TS]

  of describing all the richness available [TS]

  in contracts because it's been a while [TS]

  since I've seen this video my notes are [TS]

  not [TS]

  all the bells back but the things that [TS]

  the contracts made me think of whatever [TS]

  I saw it is like so obviously this is [TS]

  like clipboard on steroids or it's [TS]

  better than registering profile types [TS]

  and protocol handles like an iOS so it's [TS]

  clearly a step up in cooperation between [TS]

  applications providing more interesting [TS]

  cooperation and a richer set of [TS]

  behaviors for cooperation and what it [TS]

  may be think of because I'm an old man [TS]

  and an old Mac user was published and [TS]

  subscribe do you remember that hmm no no [TS]

  this is maybe in the 90s I should find a [TS]

  Wikipedia link for this so sometime when [TS]

  Apple was busy making strange new [TS]

  technologies but they weren't all really [TS]

  sticking like it was early enough that [TS]

  Apple was still doing really interesting [TS]

  things but late enough that they were [TS]

  starting to do interesting things that [TS]

  people would look at and go yeah I don't [TS]

  know kind of like I think this was [TS]

  before open doc before power talk if [TS]

  anyone remembers that probably not so [TS]

  publish and subscribe was similar type [TS]

  of thing where there was a there was a [TS]

  API defined in the system where [TS]

  applications could say would you like to [TS]

  publish something we'll use this publish [TS]

  API and say I am publishing this this [TS]

  graph from my spreadsheet application [TS]

  and then in your word processor the word [TS]

  processor would say oh I'm going to [TS]

  subscribe to that graph from this other [TS]

  application and then there would be like [TS]

  a little square inside your word [TS]

  processing application that showed the [TS]

  spread the graph from your spreadsheet [TS]

  application even though you know the two [TS]

  applications might not not know anything [TS]

  about each other they just happened to [TS]

  both support publish and subscribe [TS]

  some of the chamfers point out this is [TS]

  very similar to o le object linking and [TS]

  embedding Microsoft had a series of [TS]

  alphabet soup technologies which is [TS]

  similar things and this is kind of I [TS]

  believe publishing to describe it like a [TS]

  reaction to what Microsoft was doing and [TS]

  it never caught on very few applications [TS]

  ever had publish and subscribe items [TS]

  that metaphor didn't fit the reason I [TS]

  thought of it was because I just thought [TS]

  it was funny that so the intent is to do [TS]

  similar things have applications [TS]

  cooperated in a very rich way right you [TS]

  know by the way the embedding thing or [TS]

  the poet is described is like when you [TS]

  updated that chart in your spreadsheet [TS]

  it would also update in your word [TS]

  processor and again those two [TS]

  applications need not know anything [TS]

  about each other they just went through [TS]

  this API but so what Apple chose as the [TS]

  branding and the metaphor for this [TS]

  action was like [TS]

  something from the world of literature [TS]

  or print you published something and the [TS]

  other thing subscribes to it like a [TS]

  magazine or you or it you know it's kind [TS]

  of kind of arty whereas Microsoft shows [TS]

  contracts which has like a legal legal [TS]

  connotation where well you know we're [TS]

  we're not publishing artwork and [TS]

  subscribing to it we're making a [TS]

  contract because that's what we [TS]

  understand here at Microsoft is legally [TS]

  binding agreements between parties I [TS]

  wonder about stuff like that word does [TS]

  anyone think about the work did they [TS]

  just have to pick a different name [TS]

  because publishing the scribe was [TS]

  already used and and that thing didn't [TS]

  work is it I want to use that or and so [TS]

  that's why we had to pick contracts or [TS]

  is that the first thing that comes to [TS]

  mind and do they think about like the [TS]

  psychology behind their choice of names [TS]

  it just struck me as odd but the [TS]

  contracts technology itself I think is a [TS]

  great thing for Apple to look at and [TS]

  steel because one of the longest [TS]

  standing complaints from iOS developers [TS]

  is they want more richer better [TS]

  cooperation between applications they're [TS]

  all you know they're all sandbox that [TS]

  can't touch each other stuff but [TS]

  sometimes it makes so much sense to have [TS]

  them talk to each other and in a way [TS]

  that doesn't require you do it even if [TS]

  you wrote both the applications in iOS [TS]

  is hard it's hard to make them cooperate [TS]

  but we the ecosystem will be better if [TS]

  there was a standardized supported way [TS]

  for any application to do interesting [TS]

  things with each other and this this all [TS]

  goes back to the sandbagging sandboxing [TS]

  argument on the Mac and the Mac App [TS]

  Store where people are cranky that the [TS]

  new rules for sandboxing in the Mac App [TS]

  Store are preventing things that used to [TS]

  work in inter application communication [TS]

  on the Mac using Apple events and script [TS]

  ability and stuff like that those are [TS]

  going away I mean while on iOS people [TS]

  want more of that they would love to be [TS]

  able to you know send Apple events but [TS]

  some equivalent of talking and [TS]

  sophisticated way between applications [TS]

  within the rules with it you know [TS]

  let me speak out of my sandbox let me [TS]

  say hey I have something cool to provide [TS]

  you or if you're a photo editing [TS]

  application I would like to pop up a [TS]

  menu that says would you like to edit [TS]

  this picture in and then list all the [TS]

  interesting photo editing applications [TS]

  you can do that now with file types but [TS]

  they want more complicated types of [TS]

  arrangements and contracts provides that [TS]

  so if and when Windows 8 actually does [TS]

  ship I think this contract API will the [TS]

  API itself lease will probably [TS]

  the envy of most iOS developers of Apple [TS]

  hasn't caught up by then that's the [TS]

  thing about the windows a stop is [TS]

  they're showing a product that's not [TS]

  going to ship until like I think 2012 or [TS]

  something I don't know how it made the [TS]

  end of 2012 it's going to be a while [TS]

  like they showed it long before it's [TS]

  ready to come out so by that point you [TS]

  know is iOS 6 out yet [TS]

  it's 5.5 or whatever out you know it's [TS]

  hard to compared so Microsoft is ahead [TS]

  well my goal is not ahead until they [TS]

  ship on an apple of shipping iOS 5 so [TS]

  it's fair to compare iOS 5 with you know [TS]

  you don't compare with Microsoft has now [TS]

  so anyway I'll be interested to see how [TS]

  how things are when this stuff actually [TS]

  ships but I think right now Apple should [TS]

  be that rabble should have been working [TS]

  on this for a long time because like I [TS]

  said it's a long-standing iOS developer [TS]

  complaint and I think it's really [TS]

  important because all these sandboxing [TS]

  and security stuff that Apple is doing [TS]

  is great but it's getting to the point [TS]

  now where I OS developers are feeling [TS]

  limited by by Apple's rules and so they [TS]

  need to figure out a way to do this and [TS]

  a mediated system a mediated defined [TS]

  system likes contracts where it's [TS]

  defined by the vendor and you can only [TS]

  do a certain amount of things and you [TS]

  have you know it's a limited API it's [TS]

  not just like arbitrary Apple scripting [TS]

  you know where you could your [TS]

  application can just send an Apple event [TS]

  to the address book and say give me all [TS]

  your contacts lo I think you might be a [TS]

  better ready anyway o use it three [TS]

  different means but you can't just have [TS]

  a wide open field like you code in the [TS]

  Mac where any application can control [TS]

  any other using arbitrary code but you [TS]

  don't want everyone to be so isolated [TS]

  well they are now more Windows 8 stuff [TS]

  notifications was another interesting [TS]

  yeah a place that was different they [TS]

  made they were had a big emphasis in [TS]

  Windows 8 to saying we don't want a junk [TS]

  drawer of notifications and that was a [TS]

  dig at what Apple's doing an iOS and [TS]

  when android is always done where this [TS]

  is thing this piece of UI you can pull [TS]

  out the lists all your notifications and [TS]

  iOS users who've been begging for that [TS]

  because they hated the stupid modal [TS]

  dialogues and if you dismiss the [TS]

  notification it was gone forever and you [TS]

  know oh wait what was that text I missed [TS]

  it let me see my past six texts no and [TS]

  so not having that it was a big deal but [TS]

  then Microsoft comes out and says well [TS]

  you know Apple just spent all this time [TS]

  adding this thing we're saying that was [TS]

  a bad idea to add that we don't want a [TS]

  junk drawer of notifications we don't we [TS]

  don't want this place now by using the [TS]

  phrase [TS]

  junk drawer it's like it's language [TS]

  that's setting it up to be a bad thing [TS]

  without explaining really why it's a bad [TS]

  thing other than saying oh it's messy [TS]

  Steve Jobs did [TS]

  Steve Jobs did [TS]

  the Malheur thing when he was talking [TS]

  about the finder where there was too [TS]

  many windows in the finder I don't want [TS]

  to be the janitor to clean this up all [TS]

  right so just the way of talking about [TS]

  something there's an implied sense that [TS]

  it's bad without a real explanation of [TS]

  why is why is it bad to have lots of [TS]

  windows Steve because there it's visual [TS]

  clutter that bothers you or what if I'm [TS]

  looking at the contents of both of those [TS]

  windows maybe two windows isn't so bad [TS]

  if I really need to see what's in both [TS]

  of those windows you know what you're [TS]

  calling clutter to dismiss it over of [TS]

  course I wouldn't want that you know I [TS]

  don't want to be the janitor I just want [TS]

  to have one window right but that's [TS]

  rephrasing in particular ways am i [TS]

  calling this thing a junk drawer it's [TS]

  implying that oh it's a mess and it's [TS]

  just got a bunch of stuff jumbled in [TS]

  there but it's you know it's really kind [TS]

  of a time order list of things in an iOS [TS]

  five you can pick exactly what you want [TS]

  to appear there and how you want the [TS]

  notification to appear it's actually [TS]

  very flexible and powerful and I think [TS]

  that notification your face is [TS]

  interesting but Microsoft's philosophy [TS]

  as in many things Windows 8 runs counter [TS]

  to what both Android and Apple are doing [TS]

  and saying we want our notifications to [TS]

  be on the tiles because they have a [TS]

  whole tile interface if you don't [TS]

  remember what that is go back four [TS]

  episodes listening little business on [TS]

  tiles they say if it's important update [TS]

  your app tile you've got this big canvas [TS]

  on which to write stuff and you can put [TS]

  a small thing there when they zoom in on [TS]

  the tile you can get more information [TS]

  and when you launch the actual [TS]

  application you'll see the full thing I [TS]

  like the fact that it's different and [TS]

  I'm interested to see how that works but [TS]

  I don't like the idea of flipping [TS]

  through four or five screens worth of [TS]

  tiles to check everything for [TS]

  notification so just now what what [TS]

  happened in the two hours since I picked [TS]

  up my phone or my tablet having that [TS]

  quote-unquote junk drawer full of [TS]

  notifications is nice you know you can [TS]

  say all here's everything that happened [TS]

  if I have to flip through and scan every [TS]

  tile is there a new notification there [TS]

  no is there new notification there no it [TS]

  would be kind of like scanning through [TS]

  all your icons on the home screens on an [TS]

  iOS device looking for badges and then [TS]

  like tapping on those badges to get more [TS]

  information that's that's an interface [TS]

  that Apple could have gone with they [TS]

  didn't they did they did the [TS]

  quote-unquote junk drawer thing so every [TS]

  very interesting to see how their [TS]

  philosophy turns out in real life when [TS]

  someone gets a Windows 8 tablet or [TS]

  Windows 8 Phone do they find it better [TS]

  that notifications appear as tiles or is [TS]

  it what are they're going to be begging [TS]

  for a junk drawer and again just a zap [TS]

  is adding something Microsoft is not so [TS]

  much taking it out but saying we're [TS]

  never going to do that background [TS]

  processing this is something that they [TS]

  tiptoed around in the windows a [TS]

  presentation they didn't want to talk [TS]

  about like what's running or what's not [TS]

  that's why we were having all these [TS]

  discussions and past shows about like [TS]

  well is the desktop environment running [TS]

  until you launch it our different [TS]

  support real multitasking is going to [TS]

  kill your battery you know and they did [TS]

  talk about in when you're in the Metro [TS]

  land on Windows 8 with all these new [TS]

  style applications my impression is that [TS]

  applications are only running when [TS]

  they're on the screen and I don't think [TS]

  there's any guarantees that they're even [TS]

  in RAM when they're not on the screen so [TS]

  certainly it seems like they're [TS]

  suspending everything except for the [TS]

  frontmost application I mean they have [TS]

  to be because you can't you can't just [TS]

  do everything can multitask everywhere [TS]

  it will destroy your battery life [TS]

  especially when you have when one of [TS]

  those things and the everything is a [TS]

  full-fledged desktop environment that [TS]

  will just it would just kill a phone [TS]

  battery or even a tablet battery so they [TS]

  are doing although I'm not talking about [TS]

  as much it seems like they're doing [TS]

  something very dissimilar to what iOS [TS]

  does which is the front most [TS]

  applications the only thing guaranteed [TS]

  to be running and in memory and will try [TS]

  to manage stuff for you behind the [TS]

  scenes they didn't talk so much about [TS]

  user the application developers writing [TS]

  their applications to know how to [TS]

  restore their state exactly to the way [TS]

  it was which is a very important part of [TS]

  iOS development and it's a significant [TS]

  part like it's a significant effort to [TS]

  make sure that if I hit the home screen [TS]

  anywhere in your application when I real [TS]

  aunch that application I want to bring [TS]

  you back to right where I was before I [TS]

  hit the home button and there's some [TS]

  work involved in that apple provides [TS]

  some help for you to do that but it's up [TS]

  to the developer to do a good job on [TS]

  that [TS]

  that wasn't emphasized as much in the [TS]

  Windows 8 stuff maybe they just don't [TS]

  consider it as important but it did seem [TS]

  to me that they were saying you're not [TS]

  running if you're on the screen if [TS]

  you're not on the screen and you may not [TS]

  be in memory if you're not on the screen [TS]

  cloud roaming before you do cloud [TS]

  roaming let's do our third sponsor the [TS]

  final sponsor all right [TS]

  Shopify calm the Internet's most elegant [TS]

  customizable an affordable hosted [TS]

  e-commerce platform this is what I've [TS]

  always used to sell the five [TS]

  merchandise the t-shirts and other [TS]

  things use it for high-velocity ears [TS]

  before that I know a lot of other people [TS]

  have used it too and because it's easy [TS]

  to do you just want to sell stuff online [TS]

  don't screw around just go to Shopify [TS]

  calm you can sell anything it doesn't [TS]

  matter what it is anything at all they [TS]

  handle everything they make sure it's [TS]

  secure they've really awesome templates [TS]

  that are free if you want to spend a [TS]

  little money and get a really really [TS]

  high-end template they have a gallery of [TS]

  them there if your designer you want to [TS]

  design your own just use your own HTML [TS]

  and CSS it's a piece of cake to do it [TS]

  normally they give you a month free for [TS]

  5x5 listeners they're giving you three [TS]

  months free use coupon code 5x5 go to [TS]

  Shopify com sign up three months free [TS]

  and you can sell stuff during the three [TS]

  months it's not like you can just set [TS]

  something up and total your thumbs a [TS]

  shop in minutes of business for life [TS]

  Shopify dot-com it's easy did you give [TS]

  him that Louis that slow go slow go I [TS]

  gave they came up with the shop [TS]

  administer life slow go my slow go for [TS]

  them is uh it's easy I think uh staple [TS]

  to somebody already how's that one [TS]

  that's that was easy [TS]

  Oh totally this is just it's easy yeah [TS]

  plus when I say it I do a little karate [TS]

  chop gesture it's easy that works really [TS]

  well on a podcast yeah but it's part of [TS]

  this logo alright it's tempting to makes [TS]

  logo the title this episode but I'll [TS]

  save that for later all right cloud [TS]

  roaming so when Microsoft talks about [TS]

  roaming the silliest the silliest term [TS]

  I've ever heard did you come over then [TS]

  it's in my notes I'm assuming I copied [TS]

  it from something somebody said it makes [TS]

  underling so when they talk about this [TS]

  base people like it I think I liked it [TS]

  and see what the audience liked it [TS]

  because they say things that make us [TS]

  happy just like we all liked it when [TS]

  Apple introduced iCloud and they and the [TS]

  things they said during the iCloud [TS]

  presentation where the things we wanted [TS]

  to hear that you know that they'd [TS]

  rearranged that diagram instead of the [TS]

  Mac being the digital hub now the [TS]

  was the center the devices are around it [TS]

  and this is an arrangement a mental [TS]

  model that people who use Internet [TS]

  services like Dropbox have long come to [TS]

  appreciate and say yeah that's the way I [TS]

  wanted to work that's the arrangement [TS]

  that we like so when Apple said they're [TS]

  going to do that it made us happy and [TS]

  similarly when Microsoft talked about [TS]

  this in the Windows 8 them well where [TS]

  they said they gave some examples of [TS]

  saying like when you finish a game level [TS]

  on a device [TS]

  you shouldn't have to play that same [TS]

  level again in another device right or [TS]

  when you change a setting on a device [TS]

  you shouldn't have to change that [TS]

  setting again like we do you know don't [TS]

  remind me of this or don't show this [TS]

  dialogue like that I don't have to [TS]

  change that everywhere and that was that [TS]

  was them trying to say that we think [TS]

  everything you do should be recorded in [TS]

  some central place and that all your [TS]

  other devices should pull from that and [TS]

  that's the arrangement that we all think [TS]

  is a good idea the cloud centric [TS]

  everything everywhere don't make me [TS]

  repeat myself [TS]

  don't make every single device be an [TS]

  island and when they talk in [TS]

  generalities like that most people like [TS]

  thumbs up yep that's the way I want it [TS]

  to work I love that cloud syncing stuff [TS]

  just everything is everywhere steam does [TS]

  that for example with the newer Steam [TS]

  games I figure what they call they have [TS]

  some name for it but if you set up your [TS]

  key configuration that you like for you [TS]

  know playing portal and you bring up [TS]

  another machine and you install steam [TS]

  and download portal onto it you don't [TS]

  have to reset your key config it's [TS]

  already there because it pulled it from [TS]

  the cloud and we're like yes that's nice [TS]

  because we all remember the old days of [TS]

  having to set up the key configs and [TS]

  every time you install it or you just [TS]

  got a new computer replace the old one [TS]

  it's a hassle to do that stuff you just [TS]

  want it to work and be automatic and [TS]

  they do something similar to iCloud [TS]

  where they say I'm assuming this is for [TS]

  free that every single application every [TS]

  single Windows 8 application gets some [TS]

  small amount of per user cloud storage [TS]

  first for the state of the applications [TS]

  for settings and a small amount of [TS]

  content like it's not giving you [TS]

  gigabytes where you can store like your [TS]

  photos and everything but it's giving [TS]

  you stuff for all the settings and a [TS]

  small amount of content and enough state [TS]

  to provide that nice syncing experience [TS]

  yeah the Microsoft was saying all the [TS]

  right things there and saying all the [TS]

  right things even like we're going to [TS]

  give you that that seems to be like the [TS]

  the price of entry now this gets back to [TS]

  my point for many shows ago about how [TS]

  how data centers and server operations [TS]

  are now just an essential part of [TS]

  thing you do with technology like it's [TS]

  very very hard to be it to field any [TS]

  interesting product that does not have a [TS]

  significant very important essential [TS]

  server side component it's why I was [TS]

  saying that every company in the [TS]

  technology space needs to either have or [TS]

  be developing good expertise in the [TS]

  areas of service eyebrows even something [TS]

  like I said well if you're an individual [TS]

  app developer and you make a to-do list [TS]

  application well the better to do this [TS]

  application that have server components [TS]

  you know they could just use iCloud even [TS]

  even they just use iCloud there is a [TS]

  server component maybe the developer [TS]

  doesn't have to make the server [TS]

  component but that's that adds value to [TS]

  an application like about something like [TS]

  Instapaper where yeah there's a client [TS]

  application but the client application [TS]

  is nothing without the web service [TS]

  that's behind it and Marco had to write [TS]

  that web service and he enhances the [TS]

  application by enhancing the client too [TS]

  but also by answering the web service [TS]

  they go hand in hand you can't you know [TS]

  you can't take away the web service so I [TS]

  just want to write Objective C I don't [TS]

  want to do any of that server-side stuff [TS]

  because it's annoying and you get these [TS]

  big traffic spikes and I have to [TS]

  provision hardware and yeah that is hard [TS]

  but having that expertise doing that is [TS]

  what makes your product valuable so this [TS]

  cloud roaming thing is yet another [TS]

  instance apples Apple Microsoft is [TS]

  releasing Windows 8 it's a great new [TS]

  operating system that's got this cool [TS]

  new UI it's got all these gestures and [TS]

  look at all these cool devices and we've [TS]

  got this contracts thing but oh yeah we [TS]

  of course we have to have a server [TS]

  component and increasingly of course [TS]

  there has to be a free version of it [TS]

  like maybe we'll charge you for more [TS]

  content but it's just such an [TS]

  entry-level feature that just every [TS]

  application every Windows 8 application [TS]

  gets to store their settings in the [TS]

  cloud no no no argument no any visit [TS]

  anyone can have it's free whatever it is [TS]

  Windows Live ID whatever they change the [TS]

  name to you know that's just that's just [TS]

  the price of entry and doesn't seem like [TS]

  a such a big deal unless you're [TS]

  Microsoft or Apple and you realize [TS]

  providing every application with a free [TS]

  little bit of storage or every iCloud [TS]

  user with free you know syncing of their [TS]

  contacts and stuff like that well when [TS]

  you have millions of users that becomes [TS]

  a big deal and suddenly you're now in [TS]

  the situation of figuring out how to run [TS]

  giant data centers and scale them and [TS]

  handle large traffic spikes from you [TS]

  know Christmas morning when people get [TS]

  stuff and that's just that's just part [TS]

  of the industry now [TS]

  I think Microsoft is probably well [TS]

  equipped to do this I think they're [TS]

  going to run into the same problems that [TS]

  we just talked about with iCloud we're [TS]

  all right so this sounds great and [TS]

  everything but like to give the example [TS]

  like when I change a setting in an [TS]

  application I don't want to have to ever [TS]

  change it again well what if on your [TS]

  Windows 8 tablet you say the home screen [TS]

  and want the tiles to be this size like [TS]

  zoomed in because I can read the [TS]

  notification sent or whatever but on [TS]

  your phone you want that setting to be [TS]

  the opposite I'm making up a setting on [TS]

  off this is a real setting you want that [TS]

  setting to be the opposite because the [TS]

  screen is smaller do you have the [TS]

  ability to say actually I would like you [TS]

  to use a different setting based on the [TS]

  device now normally I want you know my [TS]

  key commands to be the same in all [TS]

  places where I run this game in steam [TS]

  but for some settings it's device [TS]

  specific on my PC my Windows 8 PC I want [TS]

  this but when is a tablet I want that [TS]

  you know now they have a conflict like [TS]

  what we wanted to hide all these details [TS]

  from you it's all built into the [TS]

  application it's up to the application [TS]

  developers to use our API stew right to [TS]

  the cloud but does not the application [TS]

  developer have to provide some setting [TS]

  that says are when you go to the [TS]

  settings application all right well [TS]

  change is setting on and then a sub [TS]

  setting that says but only on this [TS]

  computer right like you're you're opting [TS]

  out of the cloud syncing for that [TS]

  particular setting or something like [TS]

  that it becomes very complicated where [TS]

  you're merging settings together where [TS]

  these settings are you know what I want [TS]

  my default to be this but if I don't [TS]

  override in this particular device I [TS]

  want it to be that that that gets into [TS]

  stuff that only programmers want to [TS]

  think about but it's a complication of [TS]

  cloud syncing I just don't think every [TS]

  one people have got it figured out yet [TS]

  Dropbox like well grandpa's got to [TS]

  figured out they do have a simpler [TS]

  scenario they just deal with files last [TS]

  updater wins they don't prompt you for [TS]

  conflicts though but they do create [TS]

  those little I don't know Maura Marco I [TS]

  don't know if Merlin's ever seen this [TS]

  but I see it a lot because I am NOT [TS]

  careful with how I use Dropbox where you [TS]

  get the it'll be the filename of the [TS]

  document and then it will add [TS]

  parenthesis deleted in some big hex [TS]

  number have you ever seen that in [TS]

  Dropbox well to pee I mean at which [TS]

  point you'll be editing a document like [TS]

  oh and then you'll see it usually it [TS]

  seems to happen after you save it well [TS]

  what I'll get is I'll be editing a [TS]

  document on my Mac at home and grok will [TS]

  be synced and everything and then I'll [TS]

  go to work and edit that same document [TS]

  but I'll happen to catch it before it's [TS]

  like fully synced or something [TS]

  and when I come back home Oh wake my Mac [TS]

  up from sleep the document has been [TS]

  renamed in Dropbox to have parentheses [TS]

  deleted some hexadecimal no you know I [TS]

  have seen that but it's been a long time [TS]

  since I've seen that I have seen it in [TS]

  the past and that's its that's dropboxes [TS]

  way only it's really really big father [TS]

  right [TS]

  no no small file like this like they're [TS]

  just my show notes because I update [TS]

  shows and you know the other thing I get [TS]

  the same thing and to happen a lot yeah [TS]

  because I'm constantly doing [TS]

  simultaneous updating when one computer [TS]

  is asleep and so you end up with a [TS]

  situation where there's a conflict and [TS]

  Dropbox says well I don't want to [TS]

  overwrite your changes like I'm not [TS]

  going to make the document that you have [TS]

  open suddenly disappear and change [TS]

  because it's different but I've got to [TS]

  sync the newer one from Dropbox so I'll [TS]

  just rename yours go off to the side and [TS]

  then I have to kind of do my manual [TS]

  merge of the two things if I was [TS]

  interested in that data or just say oh [TS]

  yeah oh that's old I don't care about [TS]

  that I duplicated that work elsewhere if [TS]

  that problem still exists and you do see [TS]

  it if you push it too hard and get into [TS]

  situations where again where Dropbox is [TS]

  assumptions like you know that your [TS]

  computers are always online and we can [TS]

  resolve these conflicts sometimes they [TS]

  do just get things out of sync and it [TS]

  just does that for you and that regular [TS]

  user store they have no idea why that [TS]

  said parentheses deleted or maybe they [TS]

  continue editing that because it'll save [TS]

  that parenthesis deleted one in your [TS]

  Dropbox and sync it like any other file [TS]

  but then when you having a looking [TS]

  Dropbox fold you're like why are the [TS]

  three of these files and two of them [TS]

  have this weird thing in parentheses at [TS]

  the end you know it's something that [TS]

  people may not be prepared to deal with [TS]

  but but it exists but Dropbox I think [TS]

  has the simplest problem where there's [TS]

  like we just deal with files and [TS]

  contents those files we have no [TS]

  awareness of them it's much much harder [TS]

  when you're an application developer and [TS]

  you have things mean stuff like you have [TS]

  settings that mean things and some [TS]

  settings make sense to be global don't [TS]

  make sense to be goal but you don't want [TS]

  to burden the user with dealing with [TS]

  that and you want to do what the [TS]

  platform vendor says to make everything [TS]

  sink but then your users complain that [TS]

  it's weird yeah so this is a a frontier [TS]

  of UI development of figuring out the [TS]

  best balance between not troubling [TS]

  people with things we're not supposed to [TS]

  worry about and making them feel safe [TS]

  for their data is safe but also not [TS]

  annoying people with a pervasive [TS]

  sameness across all devices for things [TS]

  that you know might want to be different [TS]

  in different contexts [TS]

  I still skip to the end of this thing I [TS]

  was good they talked about Auto save and [TS]

  save stadia they're similar in Apple [TS]

  MetroCard they want you to alter save [TS]

  and they want you to save state and [TS]

  resume we talked about that it's to [TS]

  larger points that I want to make about [TS]

  the Metro stuff okay one is I was [TS]

  thinking about and a lot of people talk [TS]

  about this but Android and Metro and [TS]

  Windows 8 and stuff like that where they [TS]

  say well what Apple is doing where for a [TS]

  long time that wasn't even any [TS]

  multitasking and now it's really limited [TS]

  to multitasking and all these really [TS]

  harsh rules they have to keep things [TS]

  responsive and to keep the battery life [TS]

  up something I've seen online in a few [TS]

  places has been and I thought of it [TS]

  myself has been the idea that this is [TS]

  what's making Apple's devices better now [TS]

  and the people but the people who are [TS]

  taking the opposite approach like [TS]

  Android just letting everything run at [TS]

  once and having the process killers in [TS]

  Windows 8 saying you know this is an [TS]

  operating system that runs on desktops [TS]

  all the way down to phones and we're [TS]

  going to let everything run in the [TS]

  background when it's on the desktop and [TS]

  stuff did that strategy although [TS]

  detrimental now in the long run will be [TS]

  the clear winner because the hardware [TS]

  available on phones bloated Vance just [TS]

  like it did on the on the PC we kind of [TS]

  like we set back the clock or like a [TS]

  rewinding five years but in five more [TS]

  years our phones will be as powerful as [TS]

  our PCs are now and our PCs can handle [TS]

  they have the CPU they have the memory [TS]

  and stuff like that so this these rules [TS]

  that apples coming up with now for [TS]

  limiting things they're not stuck [TS]

  because I can just relax the rules later [TS]

  and they have a better they have better [TS]

  experience now but in the end you know [TS]

  everything wall running ones just like a [TS]

  dozen of PC we just got away for the [TS]

  hard way to catch up and my objection to [TS]

  that was always been that's all well and [TS]

  good for RAM and CPU and everything else [TS]

  but where you run into problems is [TS]

  battery battery in the physical size so [TS]

  this is some physics going on here where [TS]

  what is the best how much energy can we [TS]

  store in it in a particular volume right [TS]

  and at what rate is that increasing you [TS]

  know also we're going to have tiny [TS]

  nuclear reactors inside of tiny fusion [TS]

  reactors and inside there that are just [TS]

  burning matter directly into energy yeah [TS]

  like battery technology is woefully [TS]

  inefficient in the you know equals [TS]

  mc-squared sense and my question my sort [TS]

  of rhetorical question myself was like [TS]

  well so what does that curve look like [TS]

  compared to the curve for CPU speed RAM [TS]

  density and stuff like that and I always [TS]

  thought that that would be the limiter [TS]

  that Apple strategy is actually going to [TS]

  be with us for a long time simply [TS]

  because battery technology is not [TS]

  advancing at the same rate as those [TS]

  other technologies as the density of [TS]

  transistors on silicon and CPU speed and [TS]

  all that business the battery technology [TS]

  is just going slower now there are a [TS]

  couple of links that I found there there [TS]

  was like a the Moore's law off for [TS]

  batteries it was kind of like saying [TS]

  well here's the curve for batteries and [TS]

  actually it was surprisingly optimistic [TS]

  but I don't think it was as fast as the [TS]

  Moore's law for silicon and actually [TS]

  people said the Moore's law for silicon [TS]

  we were in for some trouble ahead as we [TS]

  reach the limitations of the wavelength [TS]

  of the light we're using for lithography [TS]

  and people looking into x-ray [TS]

  lithography and you get these 3d [TS]

  transistors like we're pushing up [TS]

  against some limits and our current [TS]

  technique for manufacturing silicon [TS]

  meanwhile apparently battery technology [TS]

  has been you know I'm sure due to [TS]

  massive investment on the amount of [TS]

  money involvement but making some pretty [TS]

  good strides so it'll be interesting to [TS]

  see how how that shakes out will battery [TS]

  technology for our lifetime be the big [TS]

  limiter and make Apple strategy the [TS]

  long-term winner at least in our in our [TS]

  lifetime and that they'll never Apple [TS]

  never relax all those restrictions so [TS]

  always have some restrictions in there [TS]

  because you just can't make you know the [TS]

  batteries can't hold enough energy and [TS]

  as low powered as you make stuff you [TS]

  can't make you can't make the components [TS]

  so low power that they don't need a [TS]

  certain size of battery and you can't [TS]

  make the battery any bigger because it's [TS]

  it's clumsy and people don't like that [TS]

  even today we're so I see so many people [TS]

  who buy this $200 iPhone plus a two-year [TS]

  contract worth thousands right at sleek [TS]

  and it's small and what's the first [TS]

  thing you do they slap on this lumpy [TS]

  Quasimodo backpack full of battery that [TS]

  makes it thing the size of a bar of a [TS]

  soap but they need to do that because [TS]

  they say well I need to be you know I [TS]

  need to wake up at 6 a.m. and I'm still [TS]

  working at 9 a.m. or [TS]

  my business travel or something I just [TS]

  can't have this better your honor out so [TS]

  I gotta get this Mophie Juice pack pack [TS]

  box whatever thing that's just what [TS]

  they've got to do it's great that they [TS]

  can do that but it shows that even in [TS]

  even with today's trade offs even with [TS]

  today's strict rules about multitasking [TS]

  and real limitations people still want [TS]

  more battery life and so battery [TS]

  technology is not keeping up with their [TS]

  demands like if Apple if Apple could [TS]

  provide a battery that provided 12 hours [TS]

  of web browsing on their phone they [TS]

  would do it like believe me they would [TS]

  do it [TS]

  currently the only way to do that is you [TS]

  need more volume sorry bad technology is [TS]

  such that even if we made the entire [TS]

  iPhone out of battery nothing else was [TS]

  in is just a simply a battery we still [TS]

  couldn't provide you with enough energy [TS]

  and it to a good approximation that's [TS]

  what the iPad is if you open it up it's [TS]

  just basically a giant battery with a [TS]

  screen attached to it and then these [TS]

  little dangly bits off to the side [TS]

  iPhone is mostly battery but you're [TS]

  getting down to small sizes where now [TS]

  the screen and the CPU starts to become [TS]

  a significant portion of the thing an [TS]

  apple so far has not been willing to [TS]

  make things thicker like if you look [TS]

  inside an iPhone 4 the battery takes up [TS]

  like the one half of the thing but the [TS]

  battery doesn't run the full width and [TS]

  the full height of the case you Apple [TS]

  wanted to they can make the entire case [TS]

  you know four millimeters thicker and [TS]

  make a full height full with battery [TS]

  covering the entire back of the thing [TS]

  maybe they'd have some problems with the [TS]

  Wi-Fi antenna do something good I know [TS]

  but yet that low battery would last a [TS]

  lot longer but the thing would start to [TS]

  look more like a bar of soap and Alba [TS]

  doesn't want to do that so this tension [TS]

  between how fast can battery technology [TS]

  advanced versus how how fast can the [TS]

  other components advanced is going to [TS]

  determine whether Microsoft and Android [TS]

  will have to rethink their idea of even [TS]

  having a possibility of just everything [TS]

  running in like desktop mode you know [TS]

  like you know Windows 8 tablet oh we can [TS]

  get a big hunk in 14-inch Windows 8 [TS]

  tablet but a huge battery in there and [TS]

  then ever you and when your desktop [TS]

  stuff and how long does that last is [TS]

  last it suddenly become like a laptop [TS]

  battery you know three hours four hours [TS]

  that like people would find that [TS]

  unacceptable if you had a tablet or the [TS]

  battery lasted three hours now the only [TS]

  reason we accept it on laptops is [TS]

  because we're just used to it that's how [TS]

  it's always been right so that's that's [TS]

  my battery oh my open question on [TS]

  battery technology I got to put those [TS]

  links in the show notes do thee the [TS]

  Moore's law for batteries curves [TS]

  and the next the final thing is that [TS]

  looking at Metro windows Metro that UI [TS]

  it really is the antithesis of typical [TS]

  Microsoft design which is why people are [TS]

  so excited about it it is just [TS]

  everything removed no shading no [TS]

  artificial 3d no no giggles no widgets [TS]

  flat stuff nice typography emphasis in [TS]

  typography plain colors and just a clean [TS]

  look and looking at Metro maybe I [TS]

  mentioned this on a previous show I'm [TS]

  just iterating it by looking at Metro it [TS]

  made am I looking back in iOS it made I [TS]

  always look old to me which is it's a [TS]

  pretty pretty amazing achievement yes [TS]

  usually what Apple does with its [TS]

  products right like they come out with a [TS]

  new product and you look at the old one [TS]

  you like all that space crap or like [TS]

  looking back at 10.3 with those [TS]

  pinstripes in Mac os10 right yeah I got [TS]

  how did I ever stare at the screen this [TS]

  is hideous these drawers and the [TS]

  pinstripes like it makes you it's it's [TS]

  fashion fashion makes you feel that way [TS]

  like how did I ever wear those [TS]

  bell-bottoms but how did I ever have a [TS]

  mullet you know alright so that I think [TS]

  is quite an achievement and that gets [TS]

  back to the whole skeuomorphic if I'm [TS]

  pronouncing that correctly the whole [TS]

  business of Apple loves to make its you [TS]

  eyes look like things like the reminder [TS]

  things with the time they look like [TS]

  those flippy over clocks where if the [TS]

  numbers slipped down and around uh I [TS]

  wonder if Apple will feel any pressure [TS]

  because there is now a competitor who [TS]

  regardless of how they do in the market [TS]

  the look of their products makes apples [TS]

  products look older and clunkier and I [TS]

  can't remember the last time that [TS]

  happened certainly it wasn't happening [TS]

  with Android and herb is not making [TS]

  apple stuff look older and clunkier but [TS]

  this just through sheer simplification [TS]

  is saying hey Apple if we just fast [TS]

  forward your timeline given current [TS]

  trends your UI should look like this [TS]

  later because historically Apple has [TS]

  with berries bumps in the road removed [TS]

  stuff like that removed texture remove [TS]

  attacks kind of reversing now is this is [TS]

  a lump and this is definitely a bump in [TS]

  the road they went way they remove [TS]

  remove remove moved all the way up like [TS]

  Mike I was 10.5 leopard and then they [TS]

  started adding back with ten seven and [TS]

  with the leather bits on the calendar [TS]

  and a linen pattern and then I [TS]

  OS 5 they're adding back like we had [TS]

  pretty clean buttons in earlier iOS but [TS]

  now that lending texture is everywhere [TS]

  and our applications have these weird [TS]

  papyrus looks and there's leather on [TS]

  stuff too and this little the flippy I [TS]

  wish I knew what the name of those bar [TS]

  you know the the digits where they have [TS]

  half the digit on one side and half [TS]

  digit in the other when they flip over [TS]

  no I'm not I know exactly what you mean [TS]

  flicker digit I don't know the technical [TS]

  term is flippy digits but yeah but [TS]

  adding like think about that they're [TS]

  adding that in there because someone [TS]

  thought it was like whimsical and [TS]

  interesting but it makes its heavyweight [TS]

  like you look at it in like the mental [TS]

  weight of that stuff this is all artsy [TS]

  fartsy designer e type stuff but there [TS]

  it I think anyone who's a designer or [TS]

  someone who's into aesthetics looks at [TS]

  that and then looks at the metro stop [TS]

  and the metro stuff is like oh that's [TS]

  like a breath of fresh air right and now [TS]

  it may you may like the Apple one better [TS]

  and it certainly is also the best [TS]

  looking flippy digits I've ever seen [TS]

  right there the artwork is amazing and [TS]

  it is interesting and it's and it's fun [TS]

  and it's familiar to people and maybe [TS]

  it's a more successful design but the [TS]

  feeling you get as an artist or designer [TS]

  or someone who's into these things when [TS]

  you look at metro and that is one of [TS]

  them feels like weight being lifted off [TS]

  your shoulders design wise and [TS]

  historically Apple has always been the [TS]

  company that gives you that feeling you [TS]

  look at Windows then you go to Mac OS 10 [TS]

  you be like ah nice just finally what [TS]

  stuff is gone look at 16 color icons [TS]

  sharp edges [TS]

  all right great pebbles and stuff right [TS]

  and this is this is a flip interesting [TS]

  flip that I still think I like the way [TS]

  iOS 5 looks better but here is another [TS]

  competitor UI that they seemed very [TS]

  competitive to giving me the feeling [TS]

  that normally Apple gives me this may [TS]

  have no significance because obviously [TS]

  the other factors will determine the [TS]

  success of Windows 8 in the market much [TS]

  more than this but it is a turn of [TS]

  events that I noted yeah put a marker in [TS]

  the in the timeline of a technology [TS]

  battle here marker on Microsoft giving [TS]

  me the Apple feeling for the first time [TS]

  so you're switching no I don't have an [TS]

  iPhone switching for what happen yeah [TS]

  there is one more minor point that I'll [TS]

  squeeze in here that Horus brought up [TS]

  from ages ago and I had in my notes [TS]

  forever I got to find it [TS]

  his point was about there's still no [TS]

  competition for the iPod Touch which is [TS]

  amazing because the iPod this is from [TS]

  tweet of his iPod to apple sold 4.1 [TS]

  million iPod Touches last quarter and 23 [TS]

  million iPod Touches in the last 12 [TS]

  months nobody else wants a piece of that [TS]

  nobody else thinks that they can sell 23 [TS]

  million phone without a phone products [TS]

  alright that's pretty amazing that for [TS]

  all this time Android and Windows 8 and [TS]

  Windows Mobile and whatever Windows [TS]

  Phone 7 nobody wants that like we make [TS]

  phones we make tablets there's nothing [TS]

  technically preventing them from making [TS]

  an iPod Touch is basically iPhone [TS]

  without the phone with a bunch of parts [TS]

  you know cheap and up because you can't [TS]

  you know the subsidy from the phone [TS]

  thing they could make that it's within [TS]

  their technological grasp but nobody [TS]

  doesn't and it's not all we don't think [TS]

  it's a good miss 23 million units in a [TS]

  year you can turn up your nose at that [TS]

  nobody wants to make that uh I think one [TS]

  of the interesting things about the why [TS]

  is that why are they make it it shows [TS]

  that the weaknesses of those platforms [TS]

  because the reason Apple can make it is [TS]

  it even without the phone and without [TS]

  the always avail always online stuff [TS]

  they have so many other strengths in the [TS]

  media world where they can make that [TS]

  device what can you do with that you can [TS]

  play games in your house you can you can [TS]

  download and watch movies you can listen [TS]

  to music is it's an iPod all those media [TS]

  and application things make that thing [TS]

  worthwhile it's why I use it all the [TS]

  time so yeah I use it on Wi-Fi and I can [TS]

  do my web browsing because it has a [TS]

  great web browser I can play games and [TS]

  run local applications and even if it's [TS]

  not online all the time and I can [TS]

  download media from store and buy things [TS]

  and watch movies and stuff like that the [TS]

  only other company that I think has [TS]

  those same strengths and canfield device [TS]

  like that is Amazon what would you do [TS]

  with an Amazon thing the size of an iPod [TS]

  touch it didn't have any sort of 3G Anna [TS]

  you still do all the stuff you could do [TS]

  with it with the fire you read books on [TS]

  it watch movies watch TV shows and [TS]

  hopefully eventually download [TS]

  applications but Android I think the [TS]

  Android vendors are like if we put out [TS]

  an Android phone that doesn't have a [TS]

  phone what are people gonna do with it [TS]

  go to the awesome Android store and buy [TS]

  first-run movies that are at you know [TS]

  download music from our music store and [TS]

  listen to stuff or play games like yeah [TS]

  you can play Angry Birds you can [TS]

  probably download a couple movies or if [TS]

  you're a geek you can you know download [TS]

  and rip and shove stuff on it because [TS]

  it's all open and everything but that's [TS]

  not that that market is too small it's [TS]

  not 23 but 23 million people don't know [TS]

  to download torrents and more we stick [TS]

  them on their Android thing so I've [TS]

  always considered the lack of an iPod [TS]

  Touch competitor as as an admission by [TS]

  the competition that their devices are [TS]

  not valuable enough without the phone [TS]

  functionality to be a standalone product [TS]

  or at least they think it is maybe [TS]

  they're wrong maybe it really would be a [TS]

  great seller if someone would just make [TS]

  one and there were like Samsung or a [TS]

  couple of people have had ipod touch [TS]

  competitor like devices you could argue [TS]

  that 7-inch tablets or creeping down to [TS]

  that thing - I think they even fielded [TS]

  one like I don't remember the names like [TS]

  the galaxy something-or-other blah blah [TS]

  was like it was like a Samsung phone [TS]

  without the phone but didn't didn't set [TS]

  the world on fire right yeah so I the [TS]

  lack of iPod Touch competitors is [TS]

  something I will continue to watch and [TS]

  what it says about the competition's [TS]

  confidence and the actuality of their [TS]

  ability to compete with Apple I think is [TS]

  very interesting we were over time but I [TS]

  think I probably finally I skipped a [TS]

  bunch of Windows 8 stuff believe it or [TS]

  not actually skip our tablet yeah I [TS]

  think we're done with it finally and [TS]

  then next week if no one else dies or no [TS]

  other major software is released or no [TS]

  one else is interesting podcast that I [TS]

  want to comment on I'll talk about what [TS]

  ails Microsoft all right what else [TS]

  Microsoft potentially seven days for now [TS]

  and if you're new to this show you can [TS]

  go to 5x5 odd TV slash hypercritical [TS]

  there's not including this 138 episodes [TS]

  for you to get caught up on how many how [TS]

  many would they have to listen to a day [TS]

  between now in the next week to get [TS]

  fully caught up you know I recently [TS]

  caught up on a podcast that I hadn't [TS]

  realized existed and it takes a long [TS]

  time to get caught up on yes but it's [TS]

  worth it just resign yourself to not [TS]

  being caught up for six months and just [TS]

  go through it let's go sir get kana [TS]

  every excuse to work out a little longer [TS]

  welcome to treadmill a little bit longer [TS]

  when we listen to one episode a day or [TS]

  lengthen your commute perhaps take the [TS]

  take the scenic route someone in the [TS]

  chat room gives the name of the thing [TS]

  was called the Galaxy player yes that [TS]

  was the thing I was thinking of huh yes [TS]

  it counts but that's on 23 million of [TS]

  them a year okay so uh let's see [TS]

  siracusa on twitter SI RAC USA I'm Dan [TS]

  Benjamin on Twitter and lots of good [TS]

  shows for you and 5x5 should go there [TS]

  and comparable that's a good one to get [TS]

  caught up on you're John siracusa in a [TS]

  whole different whole different way [TS]

  whole different light seems a whole [TS]

  similar not really you really come out [TS]

  of your shell on that show mm-hm you [TS]

  were on fire today though here this is a [TS]

  good one just one for the record books [TS]

  today alright well thanks everybody for [TS]

  tuning in and we will be back next week [TS]

  have a good week John you do [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  you [TS]