36: Wedge


  this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect but it can't be complained [TS]

  about by my co-host John siracusa how [TS]

  are you John I'm pretty good this is [TS]

  episode number 36 we want to say thanks [TS]

  to our two sponsors source bits calm and [TS]

  sifter app.com who will tell you about [TS]

  as the program goes on we also want to [TS]

  mention the bandwidth for the shows [TS]

  brought to you by Midas green tech [TS]

  Virtual Private servers submerged in oil [TS]

  get free bandwidth today at Midas green [TS]

  tech comm slash 5x5 36 of these does [TS]

  that make you feel just dandy dandy you [TS]

  know people like a couple people said [TS]

  they liked how you said submerged in oil [TS]

  and now you're all self-conscious about [TS]

  it so now it's like I don't like know I [TS]

  try to vary it I tried you know you're [TS]

  overthinking it now I'm afraid the same [TS]

  thing is gonna happen with the [TS]

  complaining part well it's going away [TS]

  the oil [TS]

  yeah but they complaining part is like [TS]

  gonna read the new oil don't steal my [TS]

  thunder [TS]

  right how are you I'm fine [TS]

  did you watch this Terra Nova no I have [TS]

  that on TiVo although I tried to leave I [TS]

  tried to remain spoiler free and like [TS]

  muted you when you were talking about [TS]

  that a couple minutes ago because I [TS]

  didn't want to hit but I hear that you [TS]

  didn't like it I assumed I wouldn't like [TS]

  to it I haven't gotten to it yet I'm a [TS]

  little bit behind okay yeah I did I did [TS]

  watch the fringe but we should talk [TS]

  about that maybe maybe maybe we'll get [TS]

  to it I'm also glad to faith didn't pick [TS]

  me as the mean person right one of the [TS]

  one of the other go sketch guys those [TS]

  live knows I was sweating that my [TS]

  fingers are crossed like don't let it be [TS]

  me don't let it be me [TS]

  you know what no and I'll tell you I'll [TS]

  tell you why you are it despite despite [TS]

  the way that that you come across uh you [TS]

  are actually quite a kind sensitive [TS]

  person behind the scenes beneath your [TS]

  Romulan exterior you are quite [TS]

  compassionate you care about the little [TS]

  people [TS]

  mmm-hmm that's me what are we talking [TS]

  about I had stuff prepared for this week [TS]

  it was we were going to finish off the [TS]

  Microsoft stuff then I was going [TS]

  going to what's wrong with Microsoft but [TS]

  the Amazon stuff has come along and [TS]

  smushed that in my mind so I will yes I [TS]

  will delay it me mind the mind smooshing [TS]

  effects of Amazon yeah so far still not [TS]

  getting lots of complaints about [TS]

  Microsoft one or two people said they [TS]

  could care less about Microsoft but [TS]

  mostly no complaints in a few people [TS]

  like that so maybe we will actually come [TS]

  back to both tail into the Windows 8 [TS]

  stuff next week and going through what's [TS]

  wrong with Microsoft but the Amazon [TS]

  stuff what's interesting enough that I [TS]

  want to do that but I'm behind in amazon [TS]

  stuff I actually haven't even watched [TS]

  the whole presentation yet I've read a [TS]

  lot about it ah but I didn't read I [TS]

  didn't sorry I didn't see the entire [TS]

  video I'm like halfway through it mostly [TS]

  because it was so boring did you try to [TS]

  watch that video is bad he's I saw you [TS]

  tweeting where can i watch the whole [TS]

  yeah and then I found it I'll put it in [TS]

  the show notes link but like I dairy [TS]

  like I'm surprised anyone left that room [TS]

  alive I dare you watch this thing and [TS]

  not be bored to death oh not not a good [TS]

  presentation and I don't know why like [TS]

  they had exciting things to announce and [TS]

  Jeff Bezos Bezos in on Aaron's last name [TS]

  he's a nice guy [TS]

  personal he's got interesting things to [TS]

  say but it just it wasn't the [TS]

  electricity wasn't there I don't know [TS]

  doesn't have the the Steve Jobs [TS]

  magnetism perhaps it's not as so much [TS]

  that it's also the people in the room [TS]

  like they weren't enthusiastic about I [TS]

  think it's just pressed so you'd hear [TS]

  like camera and the SLR mirrors snapping [TS]

  up and down you know that's right it [TS]

  also has a shutter sound but it's it's [TS]

  the mirrors you hear that but you [TS]

  wouldn't hear people like people weren't [TS]

  amped for these Kindles but just which [TS]

  is strange because I know people who [TS]

  really were and for these Kindle stuff [TS]

  like there was excitement about this [TS]

  announcement but those people were not [TS]

  in the room right like when they [TS]

  announced the the price you you expected [TS]

  people to have some reaction to it but [TS]

  and I don't know if it's because it was [TS]

  already leaked and everybody who knew [TS]

  what the price would be but it was like [TS]

  drop dead sighs it was all jaded press [TS]

  every announcement they made and he [TS]

  didn't and that that hurt him he [TS]

  couldn't you know feed off of that I [TS]

  don't know it was boring presentation [TS]

  I'm about I'm just up to the part where [TS]

  they're and I was in the Kindle Fire so [TS]

  I didn't but I want to talk about any of [TS]

  us I think I have all the facts covered [TS]

  I just wanted to see the presentation to [TS]

  see how did it really go ah beside heard [TS]

  different things so I but before we do [TS]

  that we have follow-up [TS]

  try to get through this quick I have [TS]

  a bit of old follow-up Thunderbolt [TS]

  follow-up I mentioned damage last time [TS]

  that I got the Thunderbolt monitor [TS]

  didn't I did you I don't think you [TS]

  mentioned that I think you mentioned no [TS]

  maybe you did mention it because yes you [TS]

  were telling me to be wife your wife was [TS]

  plugging into it you did mention that [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  and so I've got that set up now and [TS]

  people are asking me what I think of it [TS]

  it mean it works as advertised you plug [TS]

  plug your air and do it with a little [TS]

  thunder bolt cable and you got a full [TS]

  fledged computer and so far no issues [TS]

  with it really one time when we lack the [TS]

  spacebar to wake the Machine up the [TS]

  other monitor didn't wake up like the [TS]

  big monitor didn't wake up and I didn't [TS]

  really know what to do about that we [TS]

  just had to restart the machine hmm [TS]

  you couldn't detect displays go into [TS]

  system preferences I couldn't get into [TS]

  the windows they're all in the main [TS]

  scroll in the main yeah so the menu bar [TS]

  is up there and everything so how how to [TS]

  do restart it then angels SSH and shut [TS]

  down - are now come on where we are yeah [TS]

  I do what people maybe not everybody in [TS]

  the audience knows about this yeah I [TS]

  know but if you don't I don't want to [TS]

  explain I would like to explain what you [TS]

  do is you go to System Preferences you [TS]

  go into sharing and there will be a [TS]

  checkbox that is called a remote login [TS]

  by checking that you will be allowing [TS]

  SSH connection so then you could go to [TS]

  an another machine if you'd like and [TS]

  that other machine could be used to SSH [TS]

  into that box and then you can shut it [TS]

  down using the watch shut eye a shutdown [TS]

  command by itself or do you still do the [TS]

  - Shh shut down - are now Oh to reboot [TS]

  yes then want to manually boot it up if [TS]

  you really want to feel cool you can [TS]

  type sync a couple times in every turn a [TS]

  sink sink sink semicolon shut down space [TS]

  - our space now no I don't think we need [TS]

  to sink these days yeah no right no it's [TS]

  fine I wonder if the commands email on [TS]

  Mac OS 10 I doubt it my horse just [TS]

  hooked up to a do nothing command so [TS]

  anyway I got I am Thunderbolt Display I [TS]

  think I mentioned this last time the [TS]

  only weird thing I've seen about is that [TS]

  the Thunderbolt connector gets slightly [TS]

  warm huh [TS]

  which is a little bit creepy but we do [TS]

  know that from previous things that is a [TS]

  little chip in there and that I assume [TS]

  is what's getting warm not hot you know [TS]

  so the reason I bring it up is few [TS]

  things I had two links from a couple [TS]

  weeks ago that had never got - one was [TS]

  for a PCI Express breakout box that [TS]

  gives you three external piece [TS]

  I express slots over thunderbolt [TS]

  connection put a link to that in the [TS]

  show notes it's magma express box and [TS]

  the other one is Belkin has a little [TS]

  breakout box that gives you three USB [TS]

  ports a thunderbolt port so you can [TS]

  daisy chain stuff firewire port and [TS]

  gigabit ethernet port so it's kind of [TS]

  like the Thunderbolt Display without the [TS]

  display part so you can if you want your [TS]

  air to have a whole bunch more ports we [TS]

  were thinking like maybe they'll be [TS]

  Thunderbolt to fire our connectors or [TS]

  whatever but I bet these little dock [TS]

  port thingies become more popular [TS]

  because you don't just get a firewire [TS]

  you if I were you can knit a daisy chain [TS]

  thing and more USB ports and that these [TS]

  were all from earlier in the month but I [TS]

  never linked them so they will be in the [TS]

  show notes as well so it's interesting [TS]

  that we're finally seeing some [TS]

  accessories go out this and uh for [TS]

  thunderbolt and finally the iFixit did a [TS]

  teardown of the Thunderbolt Display and [TS]

  this is surprising amount of stuff in [TS]

  there did you see that that URL no can [TS]

  you please put that in the show notes [TS]

  I've not seen that one it's in the URL [TS]

  that they break it up and you would [TS]

  think it's going to be a big display and [TS]

  then some little printed circuit board [TS]

  but there's a lot of circuit board e [TS]

  stuff in there like well the big thing [TS]

  in one of the stories is that he's kind [TS]

  of subwoofer like it's got it's got two [TS]

  speakers and a third one presumably for [TS]

  low volume stuff it doesn't look like [TS]

  much of a subwoofer I mean the cone is [TS]

  not that big but it's got it looks like [TS]

  it has more printed circuit boards in [TS]

  this monitor considerably more than in [TS]

  the MacBook Air and there's a little [TS]

  power supply and once again I have [TS]

  unknowingly bought a display device that [TS]

  has a fan in it the good thing in this [TS]

  case this is a reference to your plasma [TS]

  television I didn't realize had fans in [TS]

  it right you wouldn't use any fans man [TS]

  well it's the noise but in this case I [TS]

  did not realize that a fan until I did [TS]

  the opposite thing the thing is totally [TS]

  silent like you know and I don't because [TS]

  then the air is on it makes almost no [TS]

  noise and this monitor I had no idea [TS]

  that was a fan of it so don't be afraid [TS]

  of the fan it passes the Syracuse a fan [TS]

  test I could not hear it it didn't [TS]

  bother me maybe like in a summer it'll [TS]

  get hot and start cranking up and will [TS]

  bother me but so far not an issue but [TS]

  seeing all this junk shoved into that [TS]

  display as I tweeted earlier this week [TS]

  makes me think the idea of putting a GPU [TS]

  in there is not so crazy because already [TS]

  a lot of stuff in there it's not just [TS]

  one little circuit board in the display [TS]

  it's a pretty big circuit board three [TS]

  speakers you know the analog power [TS]

  supply [TS]

  I inside there it's it's very [TS]

  interesting I like this new the new [TS]

  Thunderbolt future that we live in I [TS]

  approve [TS]

  do you think you know for a long time [TS]

  we've had us be it's been forever [TS]

  and that has become the de facto [TS]

  standard for pretty much all non I guess [TS]

  you would say that you know things that [TS]

  are not too high bandwidth it's it's [TS]

  been the standard it's been what what [TS]

  people use do you see a day when there [TS]

  will be one type of connector for [TS]

  everything and maybe it's Thunderbolt [TS]

  but that whether it's a any kind of [TS]

  peripheral mouse keyboard hard drive [TS]

  monitor whatever that it'll just you [TS]

  just plug it in and it just works is [TS]

  that where we're headed is it them it'll [TS]

  there's there's two things working [TS]

  against that one for some things you can [TS]

  say there's some sort of convergence on [TS]

  a single standard or thing and those are [TS]

  mostly things that have to do with human [TS]

  perception so at a certain point you [TS]

  reach the limit of human hearing [TS]

  perception we're not there yet in terms [TS]

  of audio quality because of the [TS]

  compression and artifacts inside but [TS]

  eventually making the audio quality any [TS]

  better doesn't make a difference and you [TS]

  would imagine that you would eventually [TS]

  converge on some kind of single standard [TS]

  for audio that is totally maxes out [TS]

  human perception you're perfectly good [TS]

  to go and then what point is there [TS]

  having other standards you know this [TS]

  bandwidth isn't a concern or whatever on [TS]

  same thing with visually but for for [TS]

  connectors [TS]

  I think they'll always be a cheap low [TS]

  speed one and another high speed one [TS]

  simply because our appetite for high [TS]

  speed will never be sated by any [TS]

  particular technology like it's not as [TS]

  if we're going to say we never need any [TS]

  more bandwidth and eventually our high [TS]

  bandwidth connector becomes cheap enough [TS]

  to put in cereal boxes therefore this [TS]

  will be the one connector I think [TS]

  they'll always be the cheap low speed [TS]

  more expensive high speed slit split in [TS]

  consumer electronics now it could be [TS]

  that our bandwidth requirements never [TS]

  run out on the high end but they do run [TS]

  out in the consumer space because the [TS]

  only things we're transferring our media [TS]

  that max out our human perception so we [TS]

  say well I never need to send you any [TS]

  more than like a an ADK HD movie with 20 [TS]

  channels of audio and blah blah blah and [TS]

  that fits over now what is now that she [TS]

  blows BD connector so we never need the [TS]

  high-speed connector but I don't think [TS]

  that will happen in our lifetime so I [TS]

  would say for everyone listening to this [TS]

  at the time that you're alive there will [TS]

  be a low speed and a high speed standard [TS]

  for connecting your consumer electronic [TS]

  devices [TS]

  I'll more follow up the metro get some [TS]

  feedback from Steve Holzer I'm prancing [TS]

  his name right saying that one of the [TS]

  reasons that Metro might be a [TS]

  predominantly landscape is that remember [TS]

  that Windows 8 also has to run on PCs [TS]

  and of course PC monitors are landscape [TS]

  hmm that made me think about the old [TS]

  days with the portrait Mac displays to [TS]

  remember those yeah those are great [TS]

  I still see people at work you see this [TS]

  lot if you work without a developers [TS]

  they will buy you know whatever the Dell [TS]

  monitors they buy you in and they're [TS]

  rotatable and they'll rotate them just [TS]

  to get the big long strip of code right [TS]

  right especially if the Windows users [TS]

  liked everything zoom to full screen now [TS]

  they can zoom their code window which is [TS]

  always black with dark blue text on it [TS]

  on how these people don't go blind in [TS]

  any way they will zoom that thing to [TS]

  full screen in a big portrait display so [TS]

  we know that actually that's a really [TS]

  good topic for perhaps a future segment [TS]

  on a show is is exactly the what you [TS]

  just identified is the different styles [TS]

  of people looking at at screens do you [TS]

  prefer the BBEdit [TS]

  style white background with dark texts [TS]

  like a page of paper or do you prefer [TS]

  the the more sort of hipster black [TS]

  screen with colorful text on it [TS]

  which of those is that's not hip studies [TS]

  to be like terminal nerd but yeah well [TS]

  no but today it's considered hipster [TS]

  like if well if you don't observe you [TS]

  have seven color texts you made [TS]

  Halloween themed or whatever but that's [TS]

  yes that is a whole other topic uh and [TS]

  you know what I think it comes down to [TS]

  is that a lot of these kids today using [TS]

  the dark color background it's because [TS]

  they're in the dark they're sitting in [TS]

  the dark and if you have the white [TS]

  background while you're sitting in the [TS]

  dark at 3:00 a.m. writing code like [TS]

  listening to that emo music then it's [TS]

  too harsh it's too bright you can't look [TS]

  at it so that's why they have the dark [TS]

  background and then just a character [TS]

  stand out and plus it makes them feel [TS]

  like neo in the matrix the first one [TS]

  people at work aren't sitting in the [TS]

  dark those no that's why if you're if [TS]

  you're in an office if you're in a [TS]

  brightly lit for Larsson office like you [TS]

  prefer then you've got to have the white [TS]

  background I think topic for a future [TS]

  show all right more follow up this is [TS]

  this is a good one from by the way [TS]

  someone in the chat room said it was [TS]

  that Steve Holt is Steve hol zer I'm [TS]

  sorry I don't know this is a good tip [TS]

  for people writing in if you think [TS]

  to be able to pronounce your name [TS]

  putting some phonetic thing to give me [TS]

  some help [TS]

  speaking of here's Jonathan hello drew [TS]

  PLO udre how this is a letter holder [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  this is a good letter very succinct I'll [TS]

  read it pretty much word for word he [TS]

  says [TS]

  you're killing me John I'm dying it's [TS]

  pronounced Mary oh it's not pronounced [TS]

  Mary oh it's Mario i disgust none I you [TS]

  know that's a northeastern thing man [TS]

  what I replied it was like you grew up [TS]

  on Long Island people say Mary oh yeah I [TS]

  understand we all have our pronunciation [TS]

  pet peeves my pronunciation pet peeve is [TS]

  and I'll test this on Dan because you're [TS]

  from Florida so god knows how I'm not [TS]

  from Florida Adelphia whatever I don't [TS]

  know you spend most I wouldn't when did [TS]

  you move to Florida I would spent the [TS]

  first maybe third of my life in [TS]

  Philadelphia and it was more than enough [TS]

  time for me to develop a Philadelphian [TS]

  northeastern accent and recognize them [TS]

  and in Florida everybody's from New York [TS]

  anyway oh yeah alright so any South [TS]

  versus my pronunciation quiz some people [TS]

  how do you pronounce these free words ma [TS]

  ry the girl's name ma ry as in to Wed [TS]

  and m ER ry as in Christmas they're all [TS]

  the same Merida they're actually they're [TS]

  actually not all the same they are all [TS]

  the same they're all related [TS]

  let's read it through what's the first [TS]

  one ma ry the girl's name mary ma rry as [TS]

  in to Wed Mary and M ery as in Christmas [TS]

  Mary C that's three words you did it [TS]

  right what about wate our MMS that's [TS]

  getting into more regional but I'm the [TS]

  thing I'm annoyed with is well in words [TS]

  that have distinct pronunciations they [TS]

  don't have different distinct [TS]

  pronunciations and to compress the [TS]

  countries they just blend there's a good [TS]

  I wish I could find this I've searched [TS]

  for many times it was a good map of the [TS]

  u.s. showing how many different vowel [TS]

  sounds and different sounds there are in [TS]

  the accent in different regions of the [TS]

  country and what it showed is it showed [TS]

  the current map as it exists now and it [TS]

  showed the map over time showing that [TS]

  the number of vowel sounds number of [TS]

  distinctive Allison's only decreases in [TS]

  other words the people who who say all [TS]

  three of those words the same are [TS]

  expanding to absorb the people who [TS]

  differentiate that the differentiation [TS]

  of Val [TS]

  sounds is disappearing because it's like [TS]

  a like a virus spreading across the [TS]

  country of the language becoming you [TS]

  know more less less distinctive and I'm [TS]

  sure that's probably true compared our [TS]

  language to like Old English or all [TS]

  these things from centuries ago I'm sure [TS]

  we've it's just that the overall trend [TS]

  is fewer vowel sounds uh fewer [TS]

  distinctions I don't know but I still [TS]

  think if you're going to marry marry [TS]

  marry you should know that you are [TS]

  wedding a girl who is happy you can take [TS]

  the test at home that should be read a [TS]

  little more with the Marvel comic dust [TS]

  and the marry marry marry test so yes I [TS]

  apologize for saying marry oh I think I [TS]

  said I guess a yahoo sometime people I [TS]

  don't remember what I said I said I said [TS]

  I didn't say yahoo I said Yahoo yeah I [TS]

  would mostly blame that on around but [TS]

  I'm proud of my Long Island heritage and [TS]

  I wear my mispronunciations in that [TS]

  regard proudly oh where else do we have [TS]

  here something about CoffeeScript which [TS]

  I should talk about it sometime but not [TS]

  today it's taking a long time to reach I [TS]

  why don't you read these notes I'll do a [TS]

  sponsor then since you're obviously you [TS]

  can unplug our first sponsor today [TS]

  longtime sponsor source bits this [TS]

  episode is sponsored by source bits [TS]

  these guys provide software design and [TS]

  development services for iOS Android Mac [TS]

  and the web they're at the bleeding edge [TS]

  of emerging technologies they've got [TS]

  tons and tons of experience they've got [TS]

  a successful track record building well [TS]

  tested visually stunning world-class [TS]

  apps and here's the thing this is what [TS]

  I'm finding out a lot of time is that [TS]

  there's people who maybe you're a good [TS]

  iOS developer and you've got an idea for [TS]

  an iOS app right but maybe you don't [TS]

  have such a such a great set of [TS]

  experience building the back-end [TS]

  services that you want to power it maybe [TS]

  you don't know how to do push [TS]

  notifications for example who knows well [TS]

  the point is these guys they can do the [TS]

  piece that you don't know how to do so [TS]

  maybe you're a developer but you're just [TS]

  not an expert in every aspect of what [TS]

  you want to build they'll build you the [TS]

  other part or they'll build you the [TS]

  whole app it doesn't matter maybe you [TS]

  want an Android version of your iOS app [TS]

  and you don't to learn what you have to [TS]

  learn to do that [TS]

  well go to source bits calm these guys [TS]

  we'll hook you out set that fan to [TS]

  follow up I think we can start on the [TS]

  Amazon stuff now lot of Amazon stuff so [TS]

  if you've been if you hasn't been paying [TS]

  attention to this Amazon earlier in the [TS]

  week announced some new Kindles there'd [TS]

  already been a lot of news and [TS]

  information about the Kindle Fire and [TS]

  even shortly before the event news came [TS]

  out about how much it would cost and [TS]

  what it would be a long and short of it [TS]

  is it's a it's a very similar hardware [TS]

  to the the playbook it is a Android [TS]

  powered but it is Amazon's own heavily [TS]

  modified version of Android so much so [TS]

  that the message is this isn't a an [TS]

  Android tablet this is an Amazon tablet [TS]

  don't worry about the OS that's there [TS]

  just enjoy it use it use the way that [TS]

  we've we've built it it is an IDI [TS]

  designed to be a platform obviously for [TS]

  reading but also for getting it to their [TS]

  Amazon Prime streaming movies and and [TS]

  and and really it's a great gateway to [TS]

  buy all of the stuff that Amazon sells [TS]

  that's digital and and and that was the [TS]

  big announcement but they also announced [TS]

  I guess it's called the Kindle 2011 [TS]

  which is the essentially the updated [TS]

  version of the Kindle that we all have [TS]

  right now except with no keyboard there [TS]

  is the Kindle Touch which is similar but [TS]

  has a touch panel on it and and then of [TS]

  course there are the existing Kindles [TS]

  which are still being sold right and [TS]

  there's a thousand Kindles that you can [TS]

  choose from and each one of these I [TS]

  think with the exception of the fire [TS]

  comes in two different models one of [TS]

  which has commercials essentially [TS]

  advertisements that appear and a version [TS]

  that doesn't and you pay anywhere from [TS]

  12 maybe it's 20 or 30 bucks to 240 [TS]

  bucks to get the one without the [TS]

  advertisements that come up so did you [TS]

  watch the presentation I watched about [TS]

  half of it I thought was interesting how [TS]

  he opened up with kind of [TS]

  a some summary defense of e-books [TS]

  that's what do you mean by that as he [TS]

  sang a to review and to convince people [TS]

  might not be listening here's why you [TS]

  might ever want this thing called an [TS]

  e-book like look I can look up a word [TS]

  and I have lots of books in my pocket [TS]

  and I had a little ad in the beginning [TS]

  saying uh you know I'm technically [TS]

  literate and I can use ebooks and even [TS]

  you know like it was like reminding [TS]

  people ebooks exist they are a thing [TS]

  that people do people seem to like them [TS]

  here's why you might like them so it's [TS]

  still at that stage where you know we [TS]

  wouldn't do this with an iPod where it [TS]

  the fifth ipod that comes out they're [TS]

  like you could bring your music with you [TS]

  wherever you go it's really nice that [TS]

  they're they're past the level of [TS]

  explaining why you ever might want to [TS]

  have a digital music player on two [TS]

  levels [TS]

  explaining why this particular digital [TS]

  music player is better or whatever but [TS]

  it seems like ebooks despite how far [TS]

  they've come and they showed the graph [TS]

  of like out and the e-book sales passing [TS]

  paper book sales and all that stuff they [TS]

  still felt like they needed to open by [TS]

  explaining to people what the heck [TS]

  ebooks are and why people might like [TS]

  apply I thought that was that was [TS]

  interested oh that was necessary but [TS]

  apparently they thought they felt it was [TS]

  necessary and they would be the ones to [TS]

  know right um they've got the numbers [TS]

  yeah so it the predictions on this were [TS]

  pretty much on from everybody I remember [TS]

  I described it a few shows ago as I [TS]

  thought it would be a magical colorful [TS]

  window through which you can give money [TS]

  to Amazon and Marco was much more [TS]

  succinct and he called it a vending [TS]

  machine hmm for Amazon I think both of [TS]

  those things were apt but the angle that [TS]

  I got out of this this whole [TS]

  announcement was slightly different it [TS]

  comes back to one of the things that [TS]

  we've talked about in previous shows and [TS]

  that that centers on this silk thing [TS]

  right let's talk about this so silk it's [TS]

  not a great name I think we picked it [TS]

  because it's like a thin but very strong [TS]

  thread connecting you to blah blah blah [TS]

  some marketing BS but the idea is that [TS]

  when you are web browsing from your [TS]

  Kindle Fire which is the name of the [TS]

  color tablet thing rather than your [TS]

  Kindle Fire thing making TCP connections [TS]

  to the web server just like your desktop [TS]

  thing does it is going to connect to [TS]

  Amazon servers and Amazon servers are [TS]

  going to get the web page for you [TS]

  and then give it back to you like it's [TS]

  acting like a proxy now if you just know [TS]

  that about what's the point of that why [TS]

  are Amazon servers faster they closer to [TS]

  me seems like it's making two trips I [TS]

  got a request Amazon servers that Amazon [TS]

  servers got to request the page then [TS]

  it's got to send the page back to me [TS]

  that seems really dumb the key to [TS]

  understanding this is I don't haven't [TS]

  gotten up this part in the presentation [TS]

  when I assume they mentioned it is this [TS]

  speedy protocol SPDY that Google came [TS]

  out with I think it was like it last [TS]

  year or maybe the year before that it [TS]

  was experimental then but it's it it's a [TS]

  new protocol for the web instead of HTTP [TS]

  and I don't know how much do you want me [TS]

  to go into technically there's a why yes [TS]

  yeah okay so of course so that when your [TS]

  web browser requests a web page it first [TS]

  makes a request for the URL that it [TS]

  represents the page and it has to open [TS]

  up a TCP connection say I want this page [TS]

  and over that same connection it will [TS]

  send back the server or send back [TS]

  informations as here's the patron it's [TS]

  going to have the HTML content right [TS]

  right now modern web browsers will keep [TS]

  that connection open and say well but I [TS]

  know I'm going to have to request [TS]

  something else because the page is just [TS]

  the HTML text HTML still with image tags [TS]

  and references to CSS and JavaScript and [TS]

  also it's all this stuff that the [TS]

  browser doesn't have those yet it's just [TS]

  got the page it's okay here's the page [TS]

  and it's filled with this crap [TS]

  and then it's alright I'm going to need [TS]

  that stuff so I'm going to make one [TS]

  request over the same connection one one [TS]

  request for this JavaScript thing right [TS]

  but browsers if they just use one [TS]

  connection be really slow so they're [TS]

  they allow themselves to have I don't [TS]

  know what the limits are in modern [TS]

  browsers for like four or five or six [TS]

  connections per domain per domain name [TS]

  say okay I'll make one request for the [TS]

  JavaScript file then I hope a new [TS]

  connection and get this other javascript [TS]

  file and I'll put a new connection and [TS]

  get the CSS file then I'll open a new [TS]

  connection and get this image now I've [TS]

  got 50 other things I want to get most [TS]

  of which are probably images but I can't [TS]

  request them yet because as a flight [TS]

  browser I will only open up six [TS]

  connections per domain name or whatever [TS]

  the current limit is used to be much [TS]

  lower ease to be like two or three but [TS]

  now it's higher and then it's got to [TS]

  wait and say like the CSS has taken a [TS]

  while to come because it's coming from [TS]

  like you know I for whatever reason [TS]

  takes a while that thing is hung up and [TS]

  or a big image is loading and you could [TS]

  be loading smaller things so you have to [TS]

  you have six little workers to do your [TS]

  things and also you have to open up six [TS]

  TCP connections and there's a handshake [TS]

  there and takes a little while to go it [TS]

  used to be even worse before keepalive [TS]

  was around it would close the connection [TS]

  after I got a response then have to open [TS]

  up another one so you burn up a lot of [TS]

  your work on the overhead of opening [TS]

  closing connections and you also are [TS]

  limited in how much information you can [TS]

  get because you only have a handful of [TS]

  connections to work within everyone else [TS]

  is just waiting down there all those [TS]

  images in the rest of the page [TS]

  you're not even requesting them you [TS]

  could be getting them right now but you [TS]

  haven't even started to ask for them yet [TS]

  so speedy there are many many techniques [TS]

  that have been used to get around the [TS]

  speed is just Google's particular one [TS]

  and if you go to the speedy white paper [TS]

  that a link in the show notes it will [TS]

  they talk about alternatives of HTTP [TS]

  pipelining and a couple other things [TS]

  what's the other one I should look at [TS]

  the things like s TCP or SCP or [TS]

  something like that anyway speedy uses a [TS]

  single network connection and it it [TS]

  multiplex is the data over that one [TS]

  connection so it even though it only [TS]

  lists a single connection it can request [TS]

  a whole bunch of stuff and then those [TS]

  things come back in pieces interleaved [TS]

  with each other and the thing will and [TS]

  and the protocol will sort out okay [TS]

  here's a piece of this files but you [TS]

  know it you don't you don't have to wait [TS]

  for the one big slow file to come if a [TS]

  little piece of some other file is [TS]

  available it'll come over the connection [TS]

  to it so it's lots of little pieces of [TS]

  the files interleaved with each other [TS]

  rather than being a queue over a whole [TS]

  bunch of different connection so it [TS]

  eliminates the problem of having to open [TS]

  50 million connections it eliminates the [TS]

  problem of having a queue of stuff that [TS]

  you have to wait for to come back the [TS]

  one the data is available it will be [TS]

  sent to you no matter what it's a [TS]

  two-way bi-directional connections they [TS]

  can talk to each other over it and the [TS]

  interesting technical additions to it is [TS]

  that it's always SSL and it's always [TS]

  gzip compressed and actually isn't gzip [TS]

  yeah which are two things that are [TS]

  optional and regular HTTP but they just [TS]

  built it into this nice and look it's [TS]

  best practice secure to make make it SSL [TS]

  all the time and compression is a win [TS]

  for a lot of the content we deal with so [TS]

  it's always gzip compressed and they [TS]

  have like special-purpose compression [TS]

  for the HTTP headers where they're [TS]

  compressing a message of a known type [TS]

  like you're always going to have like a [TS]

  content type header or content length [TS]

  header there's certain headers that are [TS]

  pretty much always there so they [TS]

  massively compress the well-known H [TS]

  EP headers instead of compressing like [TS]

  you with gzip you can just make the HTTP [TS]

  you know the content type header be like [TS]

  header number one or something and [TS]

  hetero not any know what the compression [TS]

  is but you can imagine with a known data [TS]

  set you can get huge compression so this [TS]

  protocol invented by Google and actually [TS]

  implemented on Google servers and in [TS]

  Google web browser Chrome has been [TS]

  around for a while I think was marked as [TS]

  experimental or whatever but amazon has [TS]

  adopted it now before I get back onto [TS]

  Amazon with this I just want to point [TS]

  out that the speedy thing is an example [TS]

  of Google not being afraid to try to [TS]

  make a better version of some sort of [TS]

  ubiquitous technology most companies [TS]

  wouldn't say you know what we could do [TS]

  HTTP is is you know common in all but [TS]

  why don't we make our own protocol [TS]

  instead of HTTP it sounds nuts like what [TS]

  it was like what do you talk what are [TS]

  you what's next you can mix up instead [TS]

  of tcp/ip you have a better networking [TS]

  stack than that [TS]

  you go back to NetBIOS so they they made [TS]

  an entire and it seems like well that's [TS]

  never going to work fine make your own [TS]

  protocol it's like a little academic [TS]

  exercise but no one's going to use it [TS]

  everybody uses HTTP well Google happens [TS]

  to have a couple web servers that you [TS]

  might have heard of and used on daily [TS]

  basis and they also have their own web [TS]

  browser that said we don't really care [TS]

  if nobody uses this thing we're making [TS]

  speedy we're going to build it into [TS]

  chrome and we're going to put it on our [TS]

  web servers and when our web browser [TS]

  connects to our web servers you will [TS]

  have a better experience because it will [TS]

  be faster now in our web server it [TS]

  connects to another site it'll be the [TS]

  same speed as everybody else but we have [TS]

  a big advantage over other people like [TS]

  you know if you use Safari to connect to [TS]

  your gmail account it will be slightly [TS]

  worse than if you use Chrome right and [TS]

  that gives them a leg up on their [TS]

  browser side and on the server side if [TS]

  you use their combination their servers [TS]

  seem faster like I could use Google Mail [TS]

  or I could use some other mail service [TS]

  but you know Gmail seems faster for some [TS]

  reason we're at speed stuff helps with [TS]

  that it's very bold and daring it shows [TS]

  the confidence that they think they [TS]

  can't and is usually true if some [TS]

  standard has been around for a long time [TS]

  you can probably improve Bronner pretty [TS]

  well the problem is always like what [TS]

  good does that do you if you don't get [TS]

  adoption it's pointless well they have [TS]

  enough adoption to make a significant [TS]

  dent in their business by doing this [TS]

  it's interesting to compare that to a [TS]

  similar proposal where they want to [TS]

  ditch JavaScript which is old and [TS]

  creaking has lots of stuff wrong with it [TS]

  and they say well [TS]

  we do extensive amounts of JavaScript [TS]

  development here at Google so we know [TS]

  all the bad parts of it and let's make [TS]

  our own language it's better than that [TS]

  and we'll build that into our browser [TS]

  more write our stuff with it and stuff [TS]

  like that and there was a lot of [TS]

  backlash from that maybe we should do a [TS]

  show on that in the programming language [TS]

  like so then trying to fork the web and [TS]

  make a proprietary language they control [TS]

  and people are all kind of upset about [TS]

  that right you know if they just did it [TS]

  on on their products and just did it in [TS]

  their browser maybe they could take a [TS]

  similar approach because but better [TS]

  things are better in theirs even if they [TS]

  only do it themselves they still have [TS]

  the advantage that their products are [TS]

  better because of it even if no one ever [TS]

  uses it again but now here we are with [TS]

  Amazon seeing the speedy thing and [TS]

  saying you know better things are better [TS]

  let's let's look into that maybe we can [TS]

  use that for something and they decided [TS]

  this would help them make their mobile [TS]

  browser better because you won't have to [TS]

  have your mobile browser to make a [TS]

  million requests and grind through all [TS]

  this stuff and actually if you a lot of [TS]

  this performance that in like mobile [TS]

  safari stuff the iPad has to do with [TS]

  JavaScript but the network connections [TS]

  don't help especially over bad network [TS]

  connections like 3G or when you're when [TS]

  you're on the move on a phone type [TS]

  platform if you can make only one [TS]

  connection that really really helps you [TS]

  and if you don't have to wait if you can [TS]

  interleave all the available data [TS]

  through that one connection [TS]

  it makes the browsing experience better [TS]

  they also so Amazon is going to use [TS]

  speedy and then what you're connecting [TS]

  to is Amazon's ec2 Elastic Compute cloud [TS]

  thing that they run all their stuff off [TS]

  of and they provide as a service for [TS]

  everybody else and when you connect ec2 [TS]

  the application you're connected to [TS]

  doesn't just proxy the stuff for you and [TS]

  doesn't just you know translate to and [TS]

  from speedy and the various HTTP things [TS]

  and the other thing that they point out [TS]

  is that you know once you get there I [TS]

  see two servers we have gigantic pipes [TS]

  the internet will get your data well [TS]

  we'll do the multiple HTTP connections [TS]

  that we have to do to talk to these web [TS]

  servers don't speak speedy right [TS]

  I'm wonder if they talk speedy to the [TS]

  Gmail servers that would be interesting [TS]

  if they do straight through for that [TS]

  anyway they will also take the content [TS]

  and tailor it for you so they're not [TS]

  going to send you back a giant five [TS]

  megabyte image if they know that that [TS]

  you know it's a waste on your screen [TS]

  they're going to trim that image down to [TS]

  be the maximum resolution of your screen [TS]

  and make the image much smaller at the [TS]

  same time and they will also do caching [TS]

  on top of that where if lots of people [TS]

  are requesting a particular piece of [TS]

  content [TS]

  cash it and ec2 briefly and you know [TS]

  it's it's acting as a caching [TS]

  compressing proxy with a better protocol [TS]

  and I think this is also happening [TS]

  server side as well they'll also see [TS]

  that like if everybody goes to a [TS]

  particular web page immediately clicks [TS]

  on this headline we will prefetch the [TS]

  headline and have it start sending that [TS]

  you know Chrome does that already if you [TS]

  use just the chrome desktop browser and [TS]

  you go to you know the Apple com [TS]

  homepage and then you click on the the [TS]

  main banner thing for the new iMac Brent [TS]

  eventually Clau Rome learns that you [TS]

  know I don't know if it learns but it [TS]

  definitely prefetches other URLs or pre [TS]

  resolves domain names and stuff like [TS]

  that so this is not a new innovation for [TS]

  them but the fact that they're pushing a [TS]

  lot of this the server side is very [TS]

  interesting and it makes a lot of sense [TS]

  they pick they saw a technology that [TS]

  speedy thing they could use they have [TS]

  you know this this stack of services and [TS]

  that's what they're they're leaning on [TS]

  top of to make their browsing experience [TS]

  better and perhaps it's because I don't [TS]

  know what the hardware specs are and [TS]

  detail or anything but perhaps it's [TS]

  because without this their browser would [TS]

  seem slow so it remains to be seen if [TS]

  there's like this may be they may be [TS]

  compensating for something [TS]

  we can't tell because it you have to [TS]

  think of someone using this and see what [TS]

  it's really like but technologically [TS]

  speaking its it's a great move to do [TS]

  this but the interesting thing [TS]

  competitively about it as well want one [TS]

  they're pulling this thing from Google [TS]

  but the second is that they're [TS]

  leveraging their strengths their Amazon [TS]

  strengths technology wise like in terms [TS]

  of fielding a technology product not as [TS]

  like selling stuff is obviously great at [TS]

  that is their data center operations [TS]

  sort of like Google you know when we [TS]

  talked about what Apple was doing in its [TS]

  data centers and how it was using third [TS]

  party opportunities and third party [TS]

  products instead of rolling everything [TS]

  on its own like Google and Amazon same [TS]

  to Amazon has built a huge business [TS]

  about these cloud services right and [TS]

  they they're on dog food and they use [TS]

  them this that this is their strength [TS]

  this is somewhere where Apple can't [TS]

  compete with them Apple which I have to [TS]

  think is in their sights is a big [TS]

  competitor Apple is not strong in this [TS]

  area and I remember we were talking [TS]

  about Apple's iCloud things I said it [TS]

  was hard to imagine a future where data [TS]

  center operations aren't a really [TS]

  important part of what any technology [TS]

  company does right right and and you [TS]

  know and you don't outsource your core [TS]

  competency right so it seems [TS]

  like Apple understands the cloud [TS]

  computing is important like everything I [TS]

  said about iCloud was like yes fine [TS]

  they're getting it the cloud is [TS]

  important syncing blah blah blah stuff [TS]

  like that and it's too bad we didn't get [TS]

  to the metro cloud stuff yet but similar [TS]

  story there uh and in other things that [TS]

  it does Apple really wants to control [TS]

  the whole stack they want they want to [TS]

  control Mac os10 and iOS from from the [TS]

  compiler all the way up like that name [TS]

  it like using GCC no we have our own [TS]

  compiler we got our own language got our [TS]

  own stack we control the entire software [TS]

  stack but an iCloud they're like well we [TS]

  can let some people have huge portions [TS]

  that stack our arse not just hardware [TS]

  but software written by other companies [TS]

  really important parts of it is like [TS]

  well we'll let as your handle this and [TS]

  we use this for CDN 'm you know whatever [TS]

  again it's still speculation it's what [TS]

  they're actually using because apples [TS]

  never gonna come out and tell you what [TS]

  they're using but I would imagine if [TS]

  they had something great to say about [TS]

  they would but even if they were writing [TS]

  it all in-house what Amazon does [TS]

  fielding it as a product it really [TS]

  really makes your services better if you [TS]

  if you have something to use internally [TS]

  it's usually it can only get so good but [TS]

  once you have to start giving it the [TS]

  customers that really makes your product [TS]

  better particularly when it comes to [TS]

  software because you're willing to put [TS]

  up a lot of stuff when you write your [TS]

  software internally but once you start [TS]

  giving it the customers they have higher [TS]

  standards than you do so it is really [TS]

  smart of Amazon to sort of hit Apple [TS]

  where it can't hit back all right [TS]

  they didn't as many other people point [TS]

  out they didn't say that the Kindle Fire [TS]

  is like an app platform where they're [TS]

  gonna have a big app store like they [TS]

  didn't do it all the Android tablets did [TS]

  we're exactly like the iPad we have an [TS]

  app store we guys you know developers [TS]

  come make your apps play Angry Birds you [TS]

  know read your news watch your movies [TS]

  stuff like that they are leveraging [TS]

  their strengths which are different than [TS]

  Apple strengths that the places where [TS]

  Apple is weak to their data center [TS]

  operation is that the huge variety of [TS]

  content they have where Apple's not a [TS]

  weak there but Amazon is stronger [TS]

  arguably and they're valuing the [TS]

  purchase price over the quality the [TS]

  design quality of the product not that [TS]

  they're bad looking or anything but [TS]

  they're they're not even saying look at [TS]

  this beautiful tablet doesn't it look [TS]

  awesome isn't it better than a not it's [TS]

  look how low our prices are yeah and [TS]

  we're going to get this into a lot of [TS]

  people's hands and when I got finally [TS]

  got to the point when the fire was [TS]

  introduced in the little key know when [TS]

  when the CEO of Amazon Amazon whose name [TS]

  I can't last name I can't pronounce [TS]

  correctly [TS]

  builds up to pulling out the fire and [TS]

  saying look at our tablet it's great [TS]

  over everything he's showing a slide [TS]

  containing a huge menagerie of [TS]

  name-brand services that Apple Apple [TS]

  that Amazon provides it was like Amazon [TS]

  Prime ec2 Amazon Web Services I don't [TS]

  know if he had s3 up there it and he was [TS]

  like how can we make a product that that [TS]

  builds on all the and what he's saying [TS]

  is how can we make a product that builds [TS]

  on our services like we have great cloud [TS]

  services we want a product to unify and [TS]

  expose them and that's a very different [TS]

  angle than Apple or any other hardware [TS]

  makers coming out of Apple's not saying [TS]

  we have these great network services how [TS]

  can we get them to you they're saying we [TS]

  have this great hardware product and [TS]

  through it we'll make some stuff for you [TS]

  to do with it like you buy from a store [TS]

  and we'll make this iCloud thing to sync [TS]

  your stuff like it's the the cart and [TS]

  the horse are reversed in both of these [TS]

  situations here so it's fascinating to [TS]

  see a network cloud I hate st. cloud but [TS]

  I don't have another good name for a [TS]

  cloud services company saying that's [TS]

  what we're going to build on it and [TS]

  we're all focusing on like all the [TS]

  Amazon's gonna be a way for you to buy [TS]

  stuff and it is and that's entirely true [TS]

  that's I'm not discounting I'm just not [TS]

  talking about it because it seems [TS]

  obvious at this point but the the [TS]

  interest more interesting point from [TS]

  this presentation that I came away was [TS]

  they are building on their services kind [TS]

  of in a way that Google does although [TS]

  Google doesn't pimp their services [TS]

  individually but like that's what the N [TS]

  makes it's bad for Apple I think because [TS]

  there are two big competitors Google and [TS]

  Amazon both have strengths in this area [TS]

  that Apple is weak and the two of them [TS]

  took years and years and years and years [TS]

  to get those strengths you can't get [TS]

  them overnight you can't hire a bunch of [TS]

  people and get that strength the same [TS]

  way that Google can't hire like couple [TS]

  of designers and have like oh now now we [TS]

  can make hardware and software as well [TS]

  as Apple to be able to design hardware [TS]

  as well as Apple it takes decades uh you [TS]

  can't just get that overnight and in the [TS]

  same way I think Apple is really really [TS]

  behind on this cloud stuff and it seems [TS]

  to become becoming increasingly [TS]

  important the next thing I have in here [TS]

  is a link from our friend Horus Horus [TS]

  Java a tsimko com [TS]

  yeah co-host of critical path here on [TS]

  this very show very Network rather [TS]

  I haven't listened to his latest episode [TS]

  yet because I'm behind so maybe talked [TS]

  about those buddy just posted something [TS]

  today it was great it was the case [TS]

  against the Kindle as a low-end tablet [TS]

  disruption mmm we didn't talk about that [TS]

  very much so he's what he's discussing [TS]

  is that low price that I was talked [TS]

  about obviously Canton Amazon strategy [TS]

  is get the price down get this thing [TS]

  into people's hands [TS]

  and the model is we make money on the [TS]

  blades now on the razor so here's your [TS]

  razor use this thing to buy stuff from [TS]

  us in that look than that perspective is [TS]

  like well how does all the speedy stuff [TS]

  we just talked about is this silk [TS]

  business play into that it plays into it [TS]

  I guess if you're using the amazon.com [TS]

  website through your tablet to buy stuff [TS]

  and that doesn't hurt it plays into it [TS]

  in a way from that Chris Espinosa [TS]

  article I'll talk about in a little a [TS]

  minute but that's that's well what do [TS]

  you think John what do you think they're [TS]

  making on this thing when they sell it [TS]

  so that was Horace this point the Horace [TS]

  point is that if you look at this device [TS]

  and look at their pricing doesn't seem [TS]

  like they have much big margins like [TS]

  certainly not Apple size margins you [TS]

  know 30% 40% note like they're not these [TS]

  are not big margins because as many [TS]

  people pointed out as you talked about [TS]

  with Gruber that people seem to think [TS]

  that the hardware is very similar to the [TS]

  PlayBook hardware and a playbook was way [TS]

  more expensive than the fire even if [TS]

  it's like fire sale haha fire sale [TS]

  prices from the vendor was like we got [TS]

  all this stuff we were supposed to make [TS]

  play books and that's not quite working [TS]

  out so we'll give it to you at a [TS]

  discount but it you and it's seven-inch [TS]

  instead of a tinge tablet so it's not [TS]

  the same price as an iPad because the [TS]

  screen is less expensive and you know [TS]

  and has less memory everything about it [TS]

  but if if they're not losing money on [TS]

  these things [TS]

  the margins are really really small [TS]

  right so Horace's point is that if you [TS]

  have a really low margin product and [TS]

  you're going to make your money back by [TS]

  selling the the blades you're but [TS]

  selling the books movies whatever it is [TS]

  that's where you plan to get your money [TS]

  in your whole strategy is give everybody [TS]

  this thing through which they can buy [TS]

  stuff from us it takes a long time to [TS]

  make the money back even if you're not [TS]

  taking a lot so it's like to make you [TS]

  know Apple as soon as it sells you an [TS]

  iPad gets the whatever 30% margin on the [TS]

  $500 product right how long does it take [TS]

  to make that same amount of money [TS]

  by selling $0.99 book on 99 cent books [TS]

  99 cent songs or $9 books and you have [TS]

  to give some portion of the money to the [TS]

  artist you know as a retailer it's [TS]

  harder to make money if you look at what [TS]

  Apple Apple does a pretty good business [TS]

  retailing digital media but that's not [TS]

  making them their money they they say [TS]

  well we run our music store like around [TS]

  break-even like they're making money but [TS]

  it's not big big money yeah but Apple [TS]

  makes big pink money selling you those [TS]

  computers those Mac books and those [TS]

  iPads and they make it as soon as you [TS]

  buy it you buy that iPad boom that's [TS]

  their profit right in their pocket they [TS]

  don't have to wait to see what the [TS]

  attach rate will be which is how much [TS]

  stuff you buy that's a term from [TS]

  videogame industry I think that use it [TS]

  elsewhere how much other stuff will you [TS]

  buy for how many games will you buy when [TS]

  you buy your console I know the other [TS]

  example that Horus use in the Articles [TS]

  game consoles game consoles have a [TS]

  similar model where they sell you the [TS]

  game console either at a loss sometimes [TS]

  at a big loss or it just barely break [TS]

  even [TS]

  the only exception in that world is [TS]

  Nintendo which has historically sold his [TS]

  console its consoles never at a loss at [TS]

  a small profit or whatever but then for [TS]

  the people who do sell it at a loss or [TS]

  whatever to make your money you can say [TS]

  oh I gotta sell this guy a lot of games [TS]

  because the margins on games are great I [TS]

  just gotta print a CD or DVD or even [TS]

  cartridges you know and we make huge [TS]

  margins on the games so we want to sell [TS]

  as many games as possible and what that [TS]

  means is you have to keep that console [TS]

  in the market for years because the [TS]

  longer you keep that console in the [TS]

  market a the cheaper it gets to make so [TS]

  in your first or second year yeah of the [TS]

  thing maybe you're taking a loss of [TS]

  breaking even but in your third fourth [TS]

  and fifth year it's become you know [TS]

  technology event has advanced to the [TS]

  point where now you can make that same [TS]

  console way way cheaper sometimes as the [TS]

  case in Sony they reduce the number of [TS]

  chips until the entire consoles down to [TS]

  like one chip after it's been in the [TS]

  market for years like a Sony start [TS]

  introducing the slim versions of the [TS]

  PlayStation 2 PlayStation 3 it's because [TS]

  they can make it even cheaper fewer [TS]

  chips smaller size lower power more [TS]

  reliable their margins on that hardware [TS]

  are going up finally but you have to [TS]

  leave it in the market for years and [TS]

  during that time you know PC gamers and [TS]

  everybody else that technology has [TS]

  advanced so game the game consoles are [TS]

  old and slow or whatever but the reason [TS]

  they're left in the market for so long [TS]

  is because they need that they need to [TS]

  make their money back like they took you [TS]

  know $50 loss and every single [TS]

  PlayStation 3 they sold and they sold [TS]

  millions of munch [TS]

  it takes a long time to make that money [TS]

  back and then you get into the fat part [TS]

  where you're like now finally we really [TS]

  cranked I'm really making profit those [TS]

  these Playstations are so cheap for us [TS]

  to make we sell them we still get like [TS]

  40% margins but selling these cheap [TS]

  PlayStation twos but in slim model and [TS]

  and people are buying games like crazy [TS]

  or developers who've really figured out [TS]

  how to make games like they want to stay [TS]

  in that fat profit zone for the longest [TS]

  possible time but what it means is that [TS]

  the products don't get better that fast [TS]

  now compare this to Apple where Apple [TS]

  makes its money by making you the better [TS]

  product they they put out the iPad one [TS]

  and they're not like let's let the iPad [TS]

  one stay in the market for four or five [TS]

  years so we can really milk that no they [TS]

  want they want the profit from selling [TS]

  the device they're not trying to milk [TS]

  you music sales profits or your video [TS]

  rental profits or anything like that [TS]

  they need to get the iPad 2 out there [TS]

  pronto so people will buy a new iPad and [TS]

  give them another 50 60 70 80 90 bucks [TS]

  in profit uh so all their profits are [TS]

  apples profits are earned immediately [TS]

  and immediately fold back fold it back [TS]

  into development and they end and they [TS]

  release a new better one now the game [TS]

  console makers as soon as a game console [TS]

  comes out they start working on the next [TS]

  one like maybe even before that they [TS]

  have to be ready like what the [TS]

  PlayStation 4 started developing [TS]

  probably before the PlayStation 3 was [TS]

  launched or you know in this generation [TS]

  is a little bit variability but maybe 2 [TS]

  to 3 is a better example but [TS]

  historically they've been working on the [TS]

  next console as soon as possible so it's [TS]

  not like they're sitting on their thumbs [TS]

  but they know they can't put out the [TS]

  next console like why would they would [TS]

  they be they'd be killing the Golden [TS]

  Goose they'd we're just getting into the [TS]

  part where we're raking in the money [TS]

  let's not put out a new console we need [TS]

  to just let this sit for a while and [TS]

  make our money and then you know that's [TS]

  a four or five year cycle or two or [TS]

  three year cycle at least ah but again [TS]

  it's very different when Apple Apple [TS]

  wants to get a new one out every year [TS]

  get your money now Amazon what Horace is [TS]

  saying is very student is a lot more [TS]

  like the game console guys because they [TS]

  want to make their money I want to make [TS]

  his money on the on selling new video [TS]

  and books and movies and everything else [TS]

  you can buy through your Amazon device [TS]

  right and that's a slower way to make [TS]

  money it it's not you know the Amazon is [TS]

  not going to be burning down the door to [TS]

  release a much better version of the [TS]

  Kindle Fire six months from now this is [TS]

  the this is the theory in your article [TS]

  anyway now I think the the counter [TS]

  example might be that they [TS]

  been releasing Kindles pretty regularly [TS]

  as it been a yearly basis maybe the chat [TS]

  room can tell I think it's been more [TS]

  than a year but maybe the chat room [TS]

  knows us but I feel like I feel like [TS]

  every it's not like every year they've [TS]

  come out with a new one because there's [TS]

  been Kindles have been out for more than [TS]

  a few years yeah and Horace's point is [TS]

  the point is that like you can only do [TS]

  that if the advances you can make to [TS]

  your to the device part of it aren't [TS]

  that big of a deal it's like yeah we can [TS]

  make you a better thing but like it's a [TS]

  mature technology and they're not that [TS]

  many big advances whereas Apple's iOS [TS]

  devices are still or have so far been in [TS]

  the part where each new one has [TS]

  something that's like wow yeah the old [TS]

  one would like the Retina display yeah [TS]

  this is a big step up it's not it's not [TS]

  a tiny little incremental change right [TS]

  obviously they get way faster compared [TS]

  the a5 iPad to the original iPhone like [TS]

  we're still in that part we're in this [TS]

  business selling tablet type devices and [TS]

  smart phones and stuff we're still [TS]

  making the big leaps and so if you sit [TS]

  out a year a year and a half or two long [TS]

  and this weird saying this because the [TS]

  iPhone 4 it's been out for 18 months or [TS]

  whatever you know other people can eat [TS]

  your lunch by putting out a new version [TS]

  so if you try to let these kindle fires [TS]

  not advanced as fast to say the ipad is [TS]

  advancing eventually your Kindle Fire is [TS]

  even with all this silk stuff is looking [TS]

  pretty you know old and crusty right [TS]

  they're saying Kindle the Kindle 3 in [TS]

  toxic sushi is saying the Kindle 3 is 14 [TS]

  months old and W summer says it's about [TS]

  every two but I would say oh the Kindles [TS]

  if you look at them like what did they [TS]

  really change besides making it cheaper [TS]

  and that's different than when Apple [TS]

  does Apple maintains the price and adds [TS]

  more stock now don't they make it [TS]

  cheaper though I mean there are a lot of [TS]

  people who are saying that the latest [TS]

  Kindle I'm not talking about the Kindle [TS]

  Fire and things were introduced the [TS]

  other day but I'm saying that the that [TS]

  the the Kindle for lack of a better term [TS]

  the the darker Kindle versus the earlier [TS]

  lighter Kindle a lot of people were [TS]

  complaining and saying it's they're [TS]

  using lower quality components or [TS]

  components yeah but as you say that's [TS]

  their model because they want they want [TS]

  to get the price down they're not trying [TS]

  to like what I was going to say is when [TS]

  they keep releasing new Kindles they're [TS]

  not like all this Kindle the screen on [TS]

  this Kindle makes a little past Kindle [TS]

  screen looks like crap of course I'm [TS]

  going to what they were [TS]

  is green it's the surrounding they went [TS]

  through the screen but then you'd buy it [TS]

  and you'd be like all right so the [TS]

  screen is a little bit better but the [TS]

  rest of the Kindles feeling pretty [TS]

  cruddy and I guess they were even just [TS]

  the graphite one when you hold it you [TS]

  know it's lighter it's smaller but it [TS]

  does it doesn't feel like it feels [TS]

  cheaper here and can you imagine like [TS]

  Apple makes it stuff than or two but [TS]

  when they make them thinner they don't [TS]

  make them feel cheaper you know they [TS]

  they feel better with time because that [TS]

  so I actually think if you were to pick [TS]

  up an iPhone 4 in compared to anything [TS]

  that came before it progressively [TS]

  they're getting denser and and nicer and [TS]

  higher-quality overall and that's an [TS]

  apples really good at doing they almost [TS]

  never even know who was it that was it [TS]

  was it Marco I forget who was that had [TS]

  they had taken pretty sure was Marco [TS]

  they were taking close-ups of even just [TS]

  the slight edge on the aluminum those [TS]

  Marco the magnetized less sharp and yeah [TS]

  just let just in a such a subtle way the [TS]

  edges of the aluminum chassis are less [TS]

  sharp than they used to be in the [TS]

  previous generation it's the subtle [TS]

  refinements and improvements and [TS]

  obviously it would cost more money to [TS]

  round off the edges than it would to [TS]

  just leave them sharp since they're [TS]

  making them with a laser whatever uh [TS]

  whereas the Kindles gone the other way [TS]

  there they're still too sharp but but [TS]

  yeah so the this is a very difference in [TS]

  philosophy and and even though the [TS]

  Kindles have been revved they've been [TS]

  revved in ways that don't make you say [TS]

  oh man I need the new Kindle so much [TS]

  more than the past one because of some [TS]

  big quality improvement yeah now the [TS]

  touch addition and removing the keyboard [TS]

  and stuff is helping there but I will be [TS]

  interesting to see what the quality is [TS]

  like on the new Kindles you that you [TS]

  order one of the e-ink ones are just a [TS]

  fire I order just the fire yeah so [TS]

  because this is this is another this is [TS]

  another question is how many people are [TS]

  sitting there with the Kindle saying oh [TS]

  this one isn't good enough I need I need [TS]

  to get the touch one now I need to get [TS]

  the other one now and I don't think [TS]

  Amazon is concerned about that whereas [TS]

  Apple would be concerned if you had your [TS]

  iPad one and you saw the iPad to come [TS]

  out and one yeah I don't really need the [TS]

  iPad 2 and some people did do that but I [TS]

  same thing with the phone like it iPhone [TS]

  4 comes out with the Retina display if [TS]

  you would say my 3ds ok some people did [TS]

  that but there are a lot of people who [TS]

  like oh man I need that iPhone 4 like [TS]

  but Amazon as far as its concerned if [TS]

  you want to keep using your Kindle one [TS]

  very original Kindle and you keep [TS]

  plunking than money and buying their [TS]

  books they're okay with that they don't [TS]

  have a problem it's a different model [TS]

  now what Horace was saying is that in [TS]

  the market for tablets like maybe they [TS]

  can get away with that with e-readers [TS]

  but in the market for tablets it could [TS]

  be that if they don't Rev the way Apple [TS]

  revs like don't just give us a new fire [TS]

  in a year but give us a new fire that's [TS]

  like that is - the original fire like [TS]

  the iPad - was the iPad one if they [TS]

  don't do that kind of jump two or three [TS]

  iterations and Apple's tablets are so [TS]

  much better than the fire that it's kind [TS]

  of like oh you got one of those fire [TS]

  things yeah that it have nice content [TS]

  and all but yeah no come on it's like [TS]

  you're using Windows 95 and roll or iOS [TS]

  10 so yeah some of the chatroom points [TS]

  out that Apple might not be concerned [TS]

  don't get it every time they just want [TS]

  to get them every second revision or [TS]

  whatever but the point is Apple makes [TS]

  its money selling selling the thing and [TS]

  they want to give you a reason to [TS]

  upgrade whereas as Amazon is not so much [TS]

  into that and will be very interesting [TS]

  to see can you can you sell it a bit [TS]

  like that can you sell it tab like a [TS]

  game console where you just let it sit [TS]

  in the market and the other ones get so [TS]

  much but especially there's a direct [TS]

  competitor it's as if there are many [TS]

  other reason ball game consoles sell [TS]

  this but don't do this but it's as if [TS]

  you come with the PlayStation 2 and you [TS]

  sit let it sit there for five years and [TS]

  during that time your competitor makes [TS]

  five new console versions so by the time [TS]

  your five comes around PlayStation 2 is [TS]

  competing against something that has [TS]

  graphics that are like 60 times better [TS]

  and as in control and as all sorts of [TS]

  things you're like that's not how the [TS]

  console market works for variety of [TS]

  other reasons I'm going to do with game [TS]

  compatibility and libraries and really [TS]

  schedules and IP and blah blah blah [TS]

  people want us to do a gaming show maybe [TS]

  we will let a in this market apples [TS]

  already they're doing the thing where [TS]

  they make you want the new iPad Amazon's [TS]

  coming into that later and saying we [TS]

  have this thing it looks like an iPad [TS]

  but we're going to treat it differently [TS]

  or it seems like they're going to treat [TS]

  it differently uh but we'll see so I [TS]

  thought that was a very astute insight [TS]

  into how Amazon's model is different the [TS]

  different entry is the difference in the [TS]

  content way that we all talked about [TS]

  different in the building on your cloud [TS]

  services in area where the apples weak [TS]

  which is something that I noticed [TS]

  and in the pricing structure of how [TS]

  they're going to make their money and [TS]

  how and what they want you to do with it [TS]

  consumer behavior that they're trying to [TS]

  encourage now competitively I think [TS]

  being low-priced I didn't get a chance [TS]

  to talk about those iPhone stuff so I'll [TS]

  just throw it in a little bit at the end [TS]

  here I think being low-priced is really [TS]

  important and as I've said for years I [TS]

  was saying that Apple needs to get their [TS]

  iOS devices there are phones in [TS]

  particular get it on more carriers that [TS]

  was saying get on Verizon you know ASAP [TS]

  because it's kind of too late I was [TS]

  getting to be too late and they just [TS]

  barely got it in time I think spread the [TS]

  thing out and start doing what you did [TS]

  with the iPod diversify make the cheap [TS]

  low-cost ones and they kind of do that [TS]

  with it leave the old one in the market [TS]

  and stuff like that but I think Apple [TS]

  really needs to step it up Tim Cook is [TS]

  always like sasaeng he's not going to [TS]

  leave was it he's not going to leave a [TS]

  price umbrella or he's not going to make [TS]

  a price umbrella some phrases saying I'm [TS]

  not going to leave a gap in the market [TS]

  where our competitors can come in and [TS]

  make sales that we can't make because we [TS]

  weren't meeting a price point Apple [TS]

  won't make crap but at a certain point [TS]

  you can make a pretty darn good phone [TS]

  like you know the 3GS it's not a bad [TS]

  phone it's pretty good smartphone right [TS]

  it's not as good as iPhone 4 but now [TS]

  when the new one comes out presumably [TS]

  they can make the iPhone 4 cheap enough [TS]

  for that to be the $49 model or one or [TS]

  whatever Apple needs to push down into [TS]

  the market with good quality phones even [TS]

  if they're just last year's phones or [TS]

  maybe like the stigma of lash or [TS]

  something maybe make you know diversify [TS]

  in the same way that you had the Nano [TS]

  and the classic and the shuffle they're [TS]

  all iPods with the three different [TS]

  products and you don't feel like you're [TS]

  getting last year's product is you oh [TS]

  I'm getting this year's shuffle even [TS]

  though you know this year's shuffle is [TS]

  no greater than last you know last [TS]

  year's shuffle really it's still a [TS]

  shuffle compared to the big fancy one [TS]

  right I think Apple needs to start [TS]

  pushing down pushing down price-wise [TS]

  with the iPad if it's just with one [TS]

  model the iPad fine or maybe diversified [TS]

  and have a high end alone but definitely [TS]

  with the phone push down to that $49 [TS]

  phone and don't just make it last year's [TS]

  model because I think it's a stigma [TS]

  attached to it because Amazon is going [TS]

  down there Amazon sell it $79 [TS]

  Kindles right there they're selling a [TS]

  lot they're going to sell a lot of [TS]

  razors that way and I think Amazon's [TS]

  ability to make money off the blades [TS]

  continuing this belaboring this analogy [TS]

  is better than Apple's ability because [TS]

  they just have a wider selection they [TS]

  have that more [TS]

  selling stuff apples great about selling [TS]

  digital stuff and especially great about [TS]

  selling apps and Amazon is not nearly [TS]

  competitive there but that one sells [TS]

  like I'm son sells everything like they [TS]

  sell you lawn chairs do that thing [TS]

  you're not going to get the lawn chair [TS]

  on your device but it'll be delivered to [TS]

  your house but you bought it through [TS]

  them like Amazon is that is the retail [TS]

  king and so I think they have more [TS]

  bandwidth to make the big bucks selling [TS]

  the blades than Apple does with just its [TS]

  catalog of stuff that has now now they [TS]

  said there's a couple questions so when [TS]

  I ask you one oh one of them relates to [TS]

  iPods another relates to Amazon Prime [TS]

  and now we also need to talk about [TS]

  Fringe but before we do that I want to [TS]

  want to do our second sponsor can we do [TS]

  that you can okay did were you just [TS]

  unplugging I was just taking a drink of [TS]

  water okay with you it's alright maybe [TS]

  there was a long rant sifter so I can [TS]

  sponsor it's an intentionally basic bug [TS]

  track or what does this mean well these [TS]

  days teams are made up of much more than [TS]

  developers they're not all hardcore [TS]

  programmers anymore you've got designers [TS]

  a lot of the time you want your clients [TS]

  if you're developing with the [TS]

  involvement of a client you need for [TS]

  them to be able to get in there and file [TS]

  bugs and help you figure stuff out I [TS]

  mean you've got business team members [TS]

  you've got people in sales you get [TS]

  non-technical users that's the key here [TS]

  well it's important to get everybody [TS]

  involved it can't just just be the [TS]

  developers anymore this is 2011 people [TS]

  come on [TS]

  most bug trackers are great for the [TS]

  developers but they're they're not very [TS]

  good for people who are not technical [TS]

  and there's a very fine line between [TS]

  providing these great features for the [TS]

  developers the ones they need to use but [TS]

  also being able to loop in your [TS]

  designers declines your non-technical [TS]

  people and get them to participate well [TS]

  sifter focuses obsessively on making [TS]

  sure that non-technical team members are [TS]

  comfortable diving in and that in [TS]

  helping close bugs and in close issues [TS]

  that's what it's all about [TS]

  and go to sifter app comm you can try [TS]

  this thing free for for 30 days and just [TS]

  try it out whether you're just a lone [TS]

  developer whether you've got a whole you [TS]

  know thousand person team doesn't matter [TS]

  check them out sifter app comm written [TS]

  by the amazing Garrett diamond go check [TS]

  it out [TS]

  so your question is to remember them [TS]

  iPods we'll start with that I think I [TS]

  talked to John [TS]

  groover about this on the talk show this [TS]

  week but I wanted to get your take [TS]

  because you are you are an avid iPod [TS]

  user you have three iPod Touches is that [TS]

  correct that's correct three of those do [TS]

  you have any regular iPods or do your [TS]

  kids cuz you've got kids yeah we have a [TS]

  quite a collection of iPod and quite a [TS]

  collection of kids just to just to mmm [TS]

  alright I thought you were adding some [TS]

  upgrading now you're just going to [TS]

  upgrade the current ones yes [TS]

  do they have iPods traditional iPods or [TS]

  are they using the two of the touches [TS]

  they're using one of the share one of [TS]

  the touches great kids you have that [TS]

  they can share one one piece of [TS]

  technology yeah well you know they still [TS]

  grab bars when everything gets a little [TS]

  handsome it's not like they feeling a [TS]

  propriety towards down what do you make [TS]

  of the rumors that are saying that the [TS]

  traditional iPod the iPod Classic may be [TS]

  may be canceled and that may be [TS]

  everything except the iPod Nano well and [TS]

  and the iPod Touch will go will go away [TS]

  go the way of the dinosaur I think the [TS]

  classic is over - is it like do you I'm [TS]

  you keep a product like that in the [TS]

  market just for DJ's there are people [TS]

  who who enjoy and use the classic and [TS]

  they will be annoyed when it's gone but [TS]

  there's I don't think is enough for [TS]

  those people I'm amazed that it's stayed [TS]

  around maybe stay there and of like [TS]

  nostalgia kind of the way they kept the [TS]

  Mac you know member the Mac classic - [TS]

  like the only reason that form factor [TS]

  was around because it was like classic [TS]

  coke kind of marketing angle and it was [TS]

  nostalgia so so yeah I don't I don't I'm [TS]

  not going to be surprised if the classic [TS]

  goes away I thought I think it should [TS]

  have been gone already and my other [TS]

  question about the touch yeah I mean do [TS]

  you so you're saying then that the touch [TS]

  which has far far far less storage than [TS]

  the iPod Classic and is more expensive [TS]

  at the lower end than the higher-end [TS]

  matte classic you I'm not Classic iPod [TS]

  Classic you're saying that the iPod [TS]

  Touch is going to replace essentially [TS]

  fill the fill the space of the iPod no I [TS]

  think nothing is going to fill that [TS]

  space for a while like nothing can fill [TS]

  it until flash memory gets up to [TS]

  whatever those things one of those [TS]

  little hard drives are up to it though [TS]

  they have to 160 or something in for how [TS]

  big they were so what do people do you [TS]

  don't don't you flash will eventually [TS]

  get up to [TS]

  point but until it does apples not going [TS]

  to be crying over the fact they don't [TS]

  have an offering at 160 gigs really no [TS]

  they'll just met DJ's have 360 gigs iPod [TS]

  classics anyway so now they'll have six [TS]

  ipod touches or they'll just use a [TS]

  laptop or there's so many so many other [TS]

  options it's not it's not a consumer [TS]

  problem where people are saying I need [TS]

  that 160 gig model and you cannot remove [TS]

  it from the line until you give me an [TS]

  alternative 160 gig model that's not a [TS]

  problem that Apple has so you don't you [TS]

  don't think that they will feel [TS]

  obligated in some way you don't you [TS]

  don't feel that they will now they're [TS]

  not obligated to unless this consumers [TS]

  who want to buy there's not enough [TS]

  people who need that much storage for [TS]

  music cuz just not huh I don't know I [TS]

  just I think I think they're going to [TS]

  keep this thing around I just it feels [TS]

  it feels wrong to me it feels wrong to [TS]

  me that is something doesn't feel right [TS]

  I feel like I mean I won't be shocked if [TS]

  they get rid of this thing they can keep [TS]

  it or I mean like it so should we drive [TS]

  it now because I want I want to have one [TS]

  of these John or the classic you mean [TS]

  yeah well what so what's the cost of [TS]

  then keeping around there like it [TS]

  doesn't cost us anything to keep them [TS]

  around not even only a few people buy [TS]

  them like this obviously it cost them [TS]

  something to keep around but that they [TS]

  have accountancy we're going to say this [TS]

  is how much money we'll save who we [TS]

  ditch this line there's not much money [TS]

  we made from it last year this is a [TS]

  trend line how much more money we're [TS]

  going to make from this year it's a [TS]

  business decision it's not know anything [TS]

  more than that you but that's what I'm [TS]

  saying how what does it cost the money [TS]

  to keep it around well you have stock to [TS]

  deal with I you want to sell as many of [TS]

  the same thing as possible if you sell [TS]

  only a few of a thing then you still [TS]

  have some constant overhead for each [TS]

  product line dealing with you know [TS]

  manufacturing those components and [TS]

  buying a small quantity of those little [TS]

  hard drives that starts to cost you much [TS]

  more than buying a humongous quantity of [TS]

  the flash and yeah it's talk to an MVA I [TS]

  don't know the details but it comes down [TS]

  to a business decision based on pretty [TS]

  clear mouth and the only thing that [TS]

  might enter in into it is sentimentality [TS]

  or for example ruin either DJ market [TS]

  even though we don't make enough money [TS]

  and we really need those guys because [TS]

  they are the thought leaders in consumer [TS]

  electronic buying but they're not so [TS]

  sorry TJ [TS]

  sorry TJ [TS]

  yes I think they'll be pretty upset if [TS]

  they take that away one more thing in [TS]

  Amazon before we yeah to jump back to [TS]

  that is that someone uh actually no I [TS]

  think I found this myself somehow there [TS]

  was a VentureBeat completely [TS]

  unsubstantiated rumor that says the [TS]

  headline is amazon has pom ended [TS]

  shopping cart will it click buy well [TS]

  Amazon would have bought with one click [TS]

  first of all but right now the remember [TS]

  we talked about like I suggest that now [TS]

  that pom seems to be out of favor at HP [TS]

  Amazon could really use a company like [TS]

  that they would let it have even more [TS]

  full ownership over its OS and what I [TS]

  said was like that was the time to have [TS]

  the conversation before you release your [TS]

  tablet decide do we want palm do we want [TS]

  to put off our tablet thing and put it [TS]

  out later [TS]

  Amazon apparently decided they're [TS]

  definitely putting out their tablet now [TS]

  it's important to get into the market [TS]

  they're going to go with what they [TS]

  developed which is this Android thing [TS]

  but it's not doesn't really look like [TS]

  Android and what I said was that even if [TS]

  they decide no we have to ship now we [TS]

  got to get in the market it's time to [TS]

  get the ball rolling they're not closing [TS]

  the door on some day buying palm at [TS]

  forest fire sale prices and getting to [TS]

  own their own OS because the Amazon the [TS]

  Kindle Fire 2 or whatever the heck they [TS]

  call the next version of it could run [TS]

  webOS no but notice the only thing [TS]

  you'll notice is like well you bought [TS]

  apps from the Android App Store that run [TS]

  on the thing but I really do not see the [TS]

  fire being positioned as a you know hey [TS]

  run apps on it that it does that but and [TS]

  maybe will develop for it and if they [TS]

  sell a whole julien fire you don't think [TS]

  that's their angle at all you don't [TS]

  think that this is part of them [TS]

  that's part of the thing but it's like [TS]

  that's not what their strengths is not [TS]

  what they're leaning on if if they fall [TS]

  ass-backward into it sorry [TS]

  marker i it fall backwards into it they [TS]

  won't complain so if they sell tons and [TS]

  tons of fires because they're just so [TS]

  cheap and people just want to really [TS]

  cheap tablet then suddenly app [TS]

  developers are going to perk up and say [TS]

  well you know we got to start developing [TS]

  for that but their expertise is not in [TS]

  having a development platform or [TS]

  supporting developers or treating them [TS]

  nicely or not giving away their apps for [TS]

  free because they agreed to it in the [TS]

  Terms of Service or changing their [TS]

  prices all these things that they do [TS]

  mags Apple look like a dream to deal [TS]

  with so I'm not banking on I don't think [TS]

  Amazon is Bank on the strength as an [TS]

  application maker and that's why I say [TS]

  the door is not closed [TS]

  to going with webOS and owning your own [TS]

  OS if they decide that strategically [TS]

  important for them because you know [TS]

  Google is a competitor but they're using [TS]

  their technology and that's not a great [TS]

  long-term way to go you know that [TS]

  whatever is underpinning the Kindles as [TS]

  Linux and stuff like that but like the [TS]

  it's is not owned and controlled by [TS]

  another competitor company right so I [TS]

  think that this rumor of them buying [TS]

  palm [TS]

  even though simply unsubstantiated is [TS]

  that the fact that this is in the air [TS]

  now [TS]

  it's something that we're thinking about [TS]

  at the very least I was at Amazon should [TS]

  hire all the people who are being laid [TS]

  off from HP or her work group um but the [TS]

  very least get the talent right because [TS]

  there's a very small pool of the talent [TS]

  of people who can work on mobile devices [TS]

  and stuff like that and the pond people [TS]

  did great work they made a great product [TS]

  you want those people even if you don't [TS]

  want the company you want the people but [TS]

  buying palm I still think it's worth [TS]

  talking about and as I said the previews [TS]

  can't broadcast I have very strong [TS]

  arguments for and against buying palm [TS]

  but I don't like the fact I was in [TS]

  Amazon I would not like the fact that we [TS]

  are using Android did we have to say [TS]

  that word that our apps are Android apps [TS]

  even though we have our own store and [TS]

  it's separate and we're not using Google [TS]

  stuff and is open source it's just a [TS]

  little Wiggy you know yeah fringe fringe [TS]

  you want to do iPod or iPhone [TS]

  announcement predictions is that you [TS]

  refuse every show we have to we have to [TS]

  I guess I stopped I guess we can't talk [TS]

  about the fringe then yeah yeah let's [TS]

  hear what do you predict but now first [TS]

  you refuse to make good prediction on [TS]

  the talk shows like you know I made a [TS]

  pre made it what was it then those [TS]

  reiterated my prediction was that we [TS]

  will and and I mean maybe I'm changing [TS]

  this because I've been thinking about it [TS]

  a lot I think that the iPhone for form [TS]

  factor is a great form factor for the [TS]

  reasons that that John said on that [TS]

  episode we should probably put that in [TS]

  the show notes but he gave a lot of [TS]

  really good reasons why Apple would not [TS]

  go with a teardrop shape as everybody [TS]

  has been predicting and it if you had [TS]

  asked me to make a prediction about the [TS]

  form factor of [TS]

  the new iPhone 5 before [TS]

  I had heard those arguments I would have [TS]

  said duds gonna be tears a teardrop [TS]

  shape dummy but now I'm hearing all of [TS]

  his arguments against it I'm if it's [TS]

  very difficult for me to see why Apple [TS]

  would create something that in short is [TS]

  an unbalanced device and if you look at [TS]

  all of their devices that are that are [TS]

  portable all the iOS devices they're [TS]

  balanced you can hold them in it up or [TS]

  down and that's absolutely one of the [TS]

  strengths if you compare how effectively [TS]

  you can rotate an iOS device sideways or [TS]

  even upside down depending on the app [TS]

  you don't need to know which end is up [TS]

  you don't need to know that and in fact [TS]

  that's icing I think a huge strength of [TS]

  the platform is that it works just as [TS]

  well upside down as it does right side [TS]

  up or side with whatever it's just great [TS]

  that way and the rotation is seamless [TS]

  all the apps just do it it's actually [TS]

  criteria for submitting an app and in [TS]

  many cases that it has to work that way [TS]

  so the idea that you would have [TS]

  something that would not be balanced in [TS]

  your hands when you're holding it upside [TS]

  down or sideways that's a very [TS]

  compelling argument against a teardrop [TS]

  shape so I'm gonna say and you know what [TS]

  I'm okay being wrong about this but it [TS]

  Apple if they do a tear drop shape [TS]

  they'll have a compelling reason as to [TS]

  why they did it that way but I'm going [TS]

  to say that it's going to be the similar [TS]

  form factor to what we have right now [TS]

  with the iPhone 4 I wouldn't be [TS]

  surprised if it was lighter or thinner [TS]

  but I think that the iPod Touch is is [TS]

  the edge of thinness I don't think we [TS]

  can go any thinner than that and still [TS]

  have something that people could [TS]

  comfortably hold and not worry about [TS]

  snapping in half like it like a match [TS]

  stick or toothpick I made you go first [TS]

  biggest when you're on talk-show you [TS]

  were swayed by uber going first you're [TS]

  like you know those are all like you [TS]

  know strong opinion of your own you just [TS]

  go at the end the last guy who talked [TS]

  about it was very convincing but they're [TS]

  gonna listen someone else where you go [TS]

  with that opinion coming from the wind [TS]

  no I don't so I'm convinced I'm [TS]

  convinced by what he said that there's [TS]

  there's no way that they could do an [TS]

  unbalanced shape now if they do it [TS]

  it'll-it'll I'll really want to hear [TS]

  what they're thinking is for it because [TS]

  look at this look go back to the very [TS]

  first the very first iPhone even the [TS]

  iPod itself is a balance device and and [TS]

  I've used the iPod upside-down plenty of [TS]

  times but it's still balanced and and I [TS]

  don't see that as a downside I see that [TS]

  as an upside I don't I don't know I [TS]

  think I think it'll be a long time [TS]

  before we see a teardrop shape I mean [TS]

  obviously with it's a people were [TS]

  speculating about that but now I'm just [TS]

  sitting you're looking on I don't know [TS]

  but I'll tell you what I want I want a [TS]

  lighter even if it's the same thickness [TS]

  I just want this thing to be lighter [TS]

  this is a heavy phone it's heavy this [TS]

  density that's getting you yeah all [TS]

  right so we there was a fault the quick [TS]

  fall and what you said about the [TS]

  orientation because we did have a lot of [TS]

  people falling up on the orientation of [TS]

  like iOS devices and apps being rejected [TS]

  for different orientations yeah I [TS]

  thought I'd waffled enough on this but [TS]

  apparently not last time we discussed it [TS]

  I said Apple wants it to work in all [TS]

  orientations and they might reject your [TS]

  app if you're willfully not working in [TS]

  some orientation that you could but of [TS]

  course there are apps that only work in [TS]

  landscape in the example I gave was [TS]

  games lots of games are only landscape [TS]

  and stuff like that so people felt the [TS]

  need to send me messages to tell me to [TS]

  point me to the exact section of the [TS]

  gods say you should run in all [TS]

  orientations on the iPad in particular a [TS]

  buddy grap needs to run an only portrait [TS]

  or landscape you should and it gives a [TS]

  bunch of examples for if it has to do it [TS]

  so on and so forth so yes the apple [TS]

  doesn't require that every single app [TS]

  work in all orientations [TS]

  I was just comparing it to Microsoft [TS]

  saying if you want to work on only on an [TS]

  11 inch 16 by 9 tablet you can make your [TS]

  app only work in this very specific case [TS]

  offering that as an example is very [TS]

  different from Apple trying to say it [TS]

  should work on all the orientations less [TS]

  you have a good reason if you have a [TS]

  good reason fine [TS]

  so that was worth bringing up now for [TS]

  the for the predictions for this yet [TS]

  what do you say the thing now Gruber and [TS]

  I discussed this actually after the show [TS]

  and I don't think we came to any [TS]

  agreement they don't the first thing [TS]

  I'll say is that I think it's more [TS]

  wedge-shaped in teardrop shaped the [TS]

  shape that keeps showing in those rumors [TS]

  I have the same everything you said [TS]

  about that the wedge shape is true and [TS]

  my big objection to the web shape in [TS]

  terms like is is a good idea to have a [TS]

  web shape besides all the stuff he [TS]

  mentioned is that [TS]

  like battery technology is not advancing [TS]

  that fast if you make it wedge-shaped [TS]

  you are subtracting battery and most of [TS]

  what's inside the phone is battery [TS]

  there's not a lot of room and there's [TS]

  not a lot of empty room and it's [TS]

  basically just a big battery and a very [TS]

  tiny circuit board float around the [TS]

  edges barely and then a screen on top of [TS]

  it this is the big battery if you make [TS]

  it wedge you are subtracting a pretty [TS]

  big amount of space that could have been [TS]

  holding battery and for what so it's [TS]

  thinner but only on one side what does [TS]

  that you know thinner is one thing like [TS]

  oh I we made a thinner phone if it's [TS]

  just thinner on one side what is it that [TS]

  I can now do with my phone or increase [TS]

  comfort that is worth the battery life [TS]

  I'm losing from you shaving off that [TS]

  edge now it could be that if the other [TS]

  part of the rumors are true that it's [TS]

  actually a bigger screen and stuff that [TS]

  we're actually using battery because [TS]

  what we cut off in the thickness we [TS]

  gained in width and height because the [TS]

  whole phone is bigger that could be [TS]

  possible as well where I come down on [TS]

  the phone is that I will be I'll do it [TS]

  in levels of certainty I will be [TS]

  insanely shocked if this phone has a [TS]

  glass back on it all right I will be [TS]

  very surprised I agree with ya it will [TS]

  be very surprised if this phone does not [TS]

  have a new form factor so like I think [TS]

  you think it will it will have a [TS]

  completely different form factor not [TS]

  just something and it does thinner count [TS]

  as a new form factor something that is [TS]

  immediately recognizable if it was next [TS]

  to an iPhone 4 that it's not an iPhone 4 [TS]

  well they want that and I think the the [TS]

  consumers expect that and I think there [TS]

  would be a lot of grumblings of oh they [TS]

  didn't change the form factor it's the [TS]

  same old phone you know no I think they [TS]

  have to but I don't know about a tear [TS]

  drop so the thing is that before getting [TS]

  up like that why would it look different [TS]

  right I think they're overdue for a [TS]

  design now the thing against that [TS]

  looking different is you remember when [TS]

  the MacBooks sort of like went to [TS]

  unibody they had a period of stability [TS]

  or even even before the unibody in the [TS]

  aluminum book there's a period of [TS]

  stability in MacBook and MacBook Pro [TS]

  design where it's like it's silver it's [TS]

  rectangular the keyboards in the middle [TS]

  the power button is there there's a [TS]

  screen and the details changed but they [TS]

  have like a middle period where despite [TS]

  the fact that they were revving the [TS]

  cases every single version even if it's [TS]

  just changing the ports on the side like [TS]

  on a MacBook with fire or without like [TS]

  oh it's a new case I can tell it from [TS]

  the other [TS]

  one but they decided that it like kind [TS]

  of like Porsche 911 this is what this [TS]

  product looks like a MacBook is a silver [TS]

  box it looks like this this is where [TS]

  everything is laid out there's a [TS]

  trackpad you know minor differences with [TS]

  button or no button or whatever they [TS]

  could have decided this is what an [TS]

  iPhone looks like it's rectangular solid [TS]

  with flat front and back curved curved [TS]

  top and bottom the antennas around the [TS]

  side and we'll change the details like [TS]

  maybe it's not glass or maybe we use the [TS]

  two things and doesn't look like an Oreo [TS]

  sandwich anymore or whatever but like [TS]

  this is the shape that's the only thing [TS]

  making me like what would make them not [TS]

  change it I think it needs to be an [TS]

  all-new case I think it will be in [TS]

  although case now finally the final [TS]

  piece of that is something definitely [TS]

  not a glass back almost certainly a new [TS]

  case but then it's like oh so right so [TS]

  fine is that case teardrop shaped and [TS]

  that's where we get into my hemming and [TS]

  hawing about the battery what but I'm [TS]

  leaning towards for the teardrop thing [TS]

  is but well there's so much noise about [TS]

  this ear drop thing I have to imagine [TS]

  that if it's not released it was at [TS]

  least a possibility or something you're [TS]

  right but the thing I leaned towards in [TS]

  the teardrop is like maybe that's not [TS]

  the new iPhone maybe that's new iPod [TS]

  Touch these new iPod touch [TS]

  could benefit from the bigger screen [TS]

  because people use iPod Touches kind of [TS]

  like as a gaming alternative you know [TS]

  you know what I mean yeah like that [TS]

  teardrop thing as the new iPod Touch [TS]

  they always do weird crap with the iPod [TS]

  Touch yeah they're sacrificing battery [TS]

  but maybe gets wider it's going to have [TS]

  a better camera or credit your camera [TS]

  the screens not as nice the screen is [TS]

  bigger but it's not as nice as the the [TS]

  iPhone like they do all sorts of weird [TS]

  on Apple like stuff with the touch [TS]

  because they have to keep the price down [TS]

  it's not subsidized right they can't [TS]

  make it as good as the iPhone 4 because [TS]

  800 bucks so when I see that teardrop [TS]

  thing if it appears I would be not [TS]

  surprised to see that that's actually [TS]

  the iPod Touch assuming there even are [TS]

  new iPod touch assume there will be uh [TS]

  so so that's what I think I think new [TS]

  case for the iPhone no glass back [TS]

  probably something that's identifiable [TS]

  immediately as not the same as the [TS]

  current iPhone 4 and teardrop I'm down [TS]

  I'm down with all the anti teardrop [TS]

  things I just think just because we [TS]

  think it's a dumb idea doesn't mean it's [TS]

  not going to be introduced in an Apple [TS]

  product they do they do we ready to [TS]

  syncretic stuff all think of the button [TS]

  the shuffle right yeah [TS]

  then they don't bad a thousand and I [TS]

  would love to hear how they're going to [TS]

  explain to me why that taper is a good [TS]

  thing because we all know the reason so [TS]

  it's not a good thing what why is it [TS]

  worth doing that what what about it [TS]

  makes it feel better work better be able [TS]

  to fit into better pockets maybe it [TS]

  comes out of your pocket easier if they [TS]

  have any kind of rationale or if they [TS]

  just go and look at this nice taper next [TS]

  slide like if they do that that's what [TS]

  Steve Jobs would do if he didn't have a [TS]

  good reason he'd be like he'd say it [TS]

  it's like I'm look at this great taper [TS]

  and moving on and we just left to say [TS]

  you know the press is left either say [TS]

  agree and say oh look at the nice paper [TS]

  without thinking critically of like so [TS]

  what's great about what is it you know [TS]

  takes away battery size but what does it [TS]

  even I don't know so I am all flustered [TS]

  about this but I will still be shocked [TS]

  if it doesn't have a new case and yes [TS]

  not tear drew wedge-shaped not tear drop [TS]

  I don't think it looks tear drop the [TS]

  moribund [TS]

  yeah they look wedge-shaped in profile [TS]

  wedge and also you can talk about this [TS]

  too much but like would you like your [TS]

  phone your iPhone to get bigger and [TS]

  width and height no most people like I [TS]

  think he get a little bit bigger and not [TS]

  feel like visit have you seen the the [TS]

  Droid the big honking droids like these [TS]

  4G things but I don't how big the [TS]

  screens are but they seem like they're [TS]

  big like it's not a 7-inch tablet but [TS]

  you're like what the heck am i holding [TS]

  here I feel it's like that side talking [TS]

  thing yeah hold them your Mac Pro up to [TS]

  your head Oh [TS]

  I mean you know again I think I think if [TS]

  you ant most of the people that I talked [TS]

  to who are iPhone 4 owners if you ask [TS]

  them what they think of it they'll say [TS]

  they like it I'll say did you know [TS]

  what's wrong with it those ants a little [TS]

  heavy and I in the course of glass back [TS]

  what will replace the glass back yeah [TS]

  that's that's why they keep going around [TS]

  in circles with this because you want it [TS]

  to be metal for durability but it's not [TS]

  so great for the antenna the back is [TS]

  metal and when you if you make an [TS]

  external antenna you get a touch of [TS]

  juice you want the antenna to be [TS]

  internal inside a cheap plastic back [TS]

  because that has a really good RF [TS]

  performance you don't you need more [TS]

  right but that doesn't look nice so [TS]

  they're like well glass that's not bad [TS]

  for RF and we can get the strong glass [TS]

  and it is strong for bending but people [TS]

  don't break them by bending them most of [TS]

  the time there's a grill [TS]

  grass can withstand a lot but yeah it [TS]

  still shatters it's not like replacing [TS]

  the back isn't that big of a deal it's [TS]

  not that expensive to do but and it [TS]

  looks really nice I bet they're probably [TS]

  happy with how it looks as a product but [TS]

  I think they want to experiment more [TS]

  carbon-fibre part aluminum like the [TS]

  iPhone one was but part flat I don't [TS]

  know there's lots of places they can go [TS]

  with it if they can get it to work with [TS]

  a metal back with just some sort of [TS]

  radio transparent plastic section like [TS]

  all the plastic apples where the radios [TS]

  come through like they kind of do on the [TS]

  the iPad and stuff like that I don't [TS]

  know that's that's their problem to sort [TS]

  out they have conflicting requirements [TS]

  they're good RF performance but also [TS]

  attractive means dirty will the iPhone 5 [TS]

  be John Syracuse's first iPhone I can [TS]

  let my wife listen to this episode she [TS]

  still desperately wants an iPhone and I [TS]

  still say the plans are too expensive if [TS]

  it's teardrop shaped I have another [TS]

  reason so I'll come on we're not getting [TS]

  that teardrop shape now you're way doing [TS]

  it wet it was wedged I know and I said [TS]

  now you got me doing it I would I would [TS]

  like an iPhone I don't want to pay for [TS]

  the data plans and the voice plans I [TS]

  don't use a mobile phone that much so I [TS]

  just keep getting iPod Touches and that [TS]

  would just be continued to be [TS]

  disappointed in the ways that the iPod [TS]

  Touch does not measure up to the current [TS]

  generation phone mm-hmm so I'll get [TS]

  another ipod touch okay fringe 77 [TS]

  minutes in here hmm when you want to say [TS]

  about French you liked it you were you [TS]

  remain much more enthusiastic about [TS]

  fringe than I am and I thought that the [TS]

  that episode we just saw was not a great [TS]

  episode I was I was saying that it was [TS]

  you know was okay um I know a lot of a [TS]

  lot of people who are new to fringe who [TS]

  loved that episode yeah you know you [TS]

  know one person I can't believe she [TS]

  liked like that's not representative of [TS]

  the show it wasn't a good example of an [TS]

  episode I don't know they're just saying [TS]

  she liked it to make you feel better she [TS]

  liked it no I do like it for real and [TS]

  what did you what did you like about it [TS]

  didn't have Pacey hahaha damn fine man [TS]

  well seriously what what did you I mean [TS]

  obviously I I was intrigued by it maybe [TS]

  that's a better way to say I thought it [TS]

  was a fine episode I mean it's the [TS]

  sci fi on on network TV like I didn't [TS]

  really understand what was going on at [TS]

  all [TS]

  no shoes and try it but I was intrigued [TS]

  by it maybe I'm not accounting for how [TS]

  interesting and novel the characters are [TS]

  if you haven't seen them for three [TS]

  seasons you know because Walters kind of [TS]

  a character and Olivia is somewhat [TS]

  interesting and then they do kind of [TS]

  x-files stuff did you watch the x-files [TS]

  babe yes I did and did you like that I [TS]

  love the x-files and did you did you not [TS]

  see this episode of Fringe as like a [TS]

  really really really poor man's x-files [TS]

  um I think I would say that though yeah [TS]

  alright well we'll see how I I think you [TS]

  should not have watch this episode and [TS]

  should have start from the beginning [TS]

  because I think the best things Fringe [TS]

  has to offer are about the the nature of [TS]

  the overall story arc and the individual [TS]

  details and individual episodes they can [TS]

  be faulted a lot and there are lots of [TS]

  problems there but if you were just to [TS]

  sketch out the story in outline form [TS]

  like I got an idea for a series and this [TS]

  is what's gonna happen you'd be like [TS]

  that's a cool story I'd watch that show [TS]

  yeah I thought she needed she does need [TS]

  to start at the beginning and she [TS]

  probably but you spoiled like spoil it's [TS]

  not so hard but serious like she's [TS]

  watching episode already you've spoiled [TS]

  stop her her if anything if anything I [TS]

  think that she's smart enough to not not [TS]

  be swayed by the little things and she's [TS]

  heard here get out the men black thing [TS]

  and just a purr and then she can start [TS]

  from episode one who's gonna give her [TS]

  episode one we gotta take up a [TS]

  collection she's got to get all three [TS]

  series you can buy them on iTunes [TS]

  expensive yeah well you boss it's a lot [TS]

  it's a lot of time commitment that she'd [TS]

  have to invest that's not it's not so [TS]

  much that I would so I'm not the one [TS]

  encouraging her to watch fringe because [TS]

  if I wanted to make her watch a show I'd [TS]

  make it watch like The Sopranos if she [TS]

  hadn't seen it or something like that [TS]

  she doesn't want to watch that's too [TS]

  violent yeah that's you get into that [TS]

  nothing's very very sensitive agent [TS]

  violence yeah it's good top of the show [TS]

  and I would address the mean people [TS]

  thing but we don't have time maybe next [TS]

  episode that's look maybe in supposedly [TS]

  her show ends at 11:45 and this is 15 [TS]

  minute gap so I could do a brief [TS]

  15-minute after dark in there talking [TS]

  about meeting people and then we can [TS]

  start my show time mm-hm [TS]

  all right John well if people if people [TS]

  want to hear more of this show they can [TS]

  hear all of the previous uh 35 episodes [TS]

  of this that's something like you know a [TS]

  lot of these shows go over an hour's [TS]

  that's like 40 hours of content that we [TS]

  provided to them mainly you have [TS]

  provided to them they can do that by [TS]

  going to find by five that TV slash [TS]

  hypercritical if they go there they will [TS]

  see the list of episodes they can click [TS]

  on the episode they'd like and see all [TS]

  of the show notes for it which John [TS]

  siracusa has carefully curated and you [TS]

  can follow John siracusa on Twitter at [TS]

  siracusa nosey in there [TS]

  figure it out I'm Dan benjamin on [TS]

  twitter and you can also rate this show [TS]

  on itunes it's a great way to help new [TS]

  people find out about it and we [TS]

  appreciate that oh we have 999 ratings [TS]

  right now who's gonna be number 5,000 [TS]

  who's going to be iTunes caching is such [TS]

  that 1000 is almost certainly coming [TS]

  through but you can pretend that you [TS]

  don't understand about CD ends and [TS]

  caching and think you are the 1000 [TS]

  person so yes put a Shova push push so [TS]

  over the limit the one thousandth [TS]

  reviewer you won't know that because it [TS]

  goes up by ratings not reviews so this [TS]

  fewer than a thousand reviews but [TS]

  there's almost a thousand ratings that's [TS]

  the number they show the 1000 rating [TS]

  what we won't be able to figure out who [TS]

  that is yeah I was going to say they [TS]

  could have they could get a free you [TS]

  know like you could you could have [TS]

  dinner with them at the local pizza [TS]

  place if we ever get to a thousand [TS]

  reviews I don't know how we'd know that [TS]

  some person went up there and count them [TS]

  or at least count up the pages and [TS]

  assume there's an equal number per page [TS]

  but yeah and you should also mention [TS]

  being comparable the incomparable pop [TS]

  news about that right I do have some [TS]

  news the John siracusa upset me by going [TS]

  on another another podcast and at the [TS]

  minute that he did it I said I have to [TS]

  listen to this show I was on that before [TS]

  I had a show here I believe [TS]

  mmm yeah well dad I found out about that [TS]

  show and I had to listen to it which [TS]

  bothered me I only want to listen to you [TS]

  on this show but it turned out was a [TS]

  great show it's got well you can you [TS]

  tell who's on that show besides you [TS]

  Jason Snell who else Dan Morin Glenn [TS]

  Fleischmann Greg nah Steve lot says it's [TS]

  a huge rotating crew of people depending [TS]

  on what they're talking about and it's [TS]

  about a geek culture like there's a [TS]

  comic book episodes occasionally book [TS]

  club so talk about sci-fi and fantasy [TS]

  books movies television and depending on [TS]

  who's into a particular thing for [TS]

  example I'll never be on a comic book [TS]

  episode because I'm not into comic books [TS]

  so that they have people who are heavily [TS]

  into comic books they come on for the [TS]

  come quick episode but when they have [TS]

  the episodes about Star Wars Star Wars [TS]

  I'm there so it's not just me or create [TS]

  just any individual people and and it's [TS]

  now in five by five so yeah I've been [TS]

  listening to this show and I actually [TS]

  when when Jason Snell the founder of the [TS]

  show I was doing it I told him early on [TS]

  I said please you know let me help do [TS]

  this on five by five way I'll work and [TS]

  we're gonna see where it goes we're [TS]

  gonna see what and and this great I told [TS]

  him I said listen you got it you've got [TS]

  to make this show you've got to keep [TS]

  doing this show and he did and I mean he [TS]

  he's been doing it he's been doing all [TS]

  the editing himself and and I've been [TS]

  I've been bugging him but please please [TS]

  bring this over to file my file please [TS]

  bring this over because this is great [TS]

  this is exactly you know this is what [TS]

  what the listeners want and bring it [TS]

  over and we'll join for it and he did it [TS]

  he finally did and and uh I wrote a [TS]

  thing in Ruby it imported all the old [TS]

  shows have brought it over so it from [TS]

  from show one to the current show the [TS]

  incomparable podcast is now a shining [TS]

  star in the 5x5 crown and the shows are [TS]

  not like about news or like the new [TS]

  movies let it all out this week [TS]

  or about the new books that have come [TS]

  out so I would strongly encourage people [TS]

  to look through the back catalogue and [TS]

  there's going to be shows you're not [TS]

  interested in if you're not interested [TS]

  in a particular television show or a [TS]

  particular kind of comic book or movie [TS]

  don't listen to those episodes but look [TS]

  through the descriptions I guarantee you [TS]

  will find at least four or five episodes [TS]

  that you want to cherry pick from the [TS]

  pretty extensive back catalogue a lot of [TS]

  it appeal for the show it's a great it [TS]

  is a great show it's great fun it's it's [TS]

  smart geeky people talking about the [TS]

  things that they love and what could be [TS]

  better than that [TS]

  that's right and sometimes John [TS]

  circulation and rate that on iTunes when [TS]

  this was not on 5x5 when it was toiling [TS]

  in obscurity I would say how is it that [TS]

  my show doesn't have has like all these [TS]

  reviews and all these ratings but the [TS]

  incomparable which i think is also a [TS]

  great show has like nothing no you know [TS]

  it had almost no reviews so please maybe [TS]

  this week instead of going to review my [TS]

  show or in addition to going writing [TS]

  reviewer on my show listen to being [TS]

  comfortable see what you think of it and [TS]

  rate it very least click the little [TS]

  stars and put some reviews and because [TS]

  Lou wheat people on the incomparable [TS]

  feel bad these other shows are doing so [TS]

  much better than we are on the iTunes of [TS]

  world so now it's time to focus the full [TS]

  power of the 5x5 audience incomparable [TS]

  and you can you can do that by going to [TS]

  the 5x5 section of iTunes there's a a [TS]

  whole section that's just us or you can [TS]

  click the iTunes link on 5x5 that TV [TS]

  slash incomparable it's all good welcome [TS]

  to the family Jon siracusa times 2 twice [TS]

  is twice as much alright so that's it [TS]

  that's it for this week we'll be back [TS]

  next week though right unless you're [TS]

  going on vacation again you go on [TS]

  vacation I'm all out of occasionally [TS]

  alright well thanks everybody for tuning [TS]

  in we'll see you again next week [TS]

  you [TS]

  you [TS]