34: Pride in Craftsmanship


  [Music] [TS]

  this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple related technologies [TS]

  in business is nothing is so perfect [TS]

  it cannot be complained about by a host [TS]

  of the show John siracusa I'm Dan [TS]

  Benjamin this is episode number 34 like [TS]

  to say thanks for a bandwidth which has [TS]

  been provided by - Green Tech Virtual [TS]

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  get your free bandwidth today - green [TS]

  techcom / 5x5 would also like to say [TS]

  thanks to our two sponsors campaign [TS]

  monitor calm and Shopify dot-com will [TS]

  tell you about them more as the show [TS]

  goes on how're you doing this week John [TS]

  siracusa I'm pretty good fair yeah not [TS]

  great this week busy exciting week we [TS]

  exciting for for the Windows users among [TS]

  us I'm excited I'm not a Windows user [TS]

  and I'm excited excited to become to [TS]

  become a Windows user perhaps not really [TS]

  but I'm excited about the events of the [TS]

  week like what what besides Windows 8 or [TS]

  the big events when Metro but that's [TS]

  basically that's it the events of the [TS]

  week is matter we'll talk about that but [TS]

  I do have to burn through some follow up [TS]

  here ok burn it out try to do some [TS]

  lightning fast corrections lightning [TS]

  round [TS]

  take it on last week we actually be like [TS]

  lightning ful of you Oh [TS]

  lfyou is an acronym used for something [TS]

  already [TS]

  ok an abbreviation sorry so oh we get it [TS]

  as good go into the difference between [TS]

  an acronym and an abbreviation later if [TS]

  that could be a follow up for next week [TS]

  people can look it up in the dictionary [TS]

  and tell me I'm wrong [TS]

  so we talked about markdown a little bit [TS]

  last week and as I was listening to the [TS]

  show as I always do after I record it I [TS]

  realized that every time I was talking [TS]

  about markdown I'm giving like examples [TS]

  of how what markdown is like and I [TS]

  reversed the the meaning I was like all [TS]

  you put like a little asterisks around [TS]

  the word and we'll make it bold and you [TS]

  know and underscores we'll make it [TS]

  italic my how mark 10 works no no one [TS]

  sent me a correction for this but the [TS]

  second I heard it I realized it was [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  asterisks make it italic single [TS]

  underscores make it italic and [TS]

  wander scores make it bold so not that [TS]

  detail was particularly important but I [TS]

  was constantly getting it wrong in that [TS]

  whole show maybe you're thinking you [TS]

  were thinking of textile that's why I [TS]

  was probably thinking of as a friend of [TS]

  mine pointed out I made a couple of [TS]

  little UNIX utilities back in the day [TS]

  for sending plain text messages to lists [TS]

  and then I had it interpret plain text [TS]

  messages and dude like the vt100 escape [TS]

  codes to make like bold text and [TS]

  underlining and stuff and in my little [TS]

  thing when there were stars around a [TS]

  word i omitted the vt100 codes for bold [TS]

  text so I was thinking back to my [TS]

  misspent youth and how I interpreted the [TS]

  commonly used emphasis characters in [TS]

  plain ASCII communication i someone in [TS]

  the chat room says double asterisk not [TS]

  around and make it bold but anyway [TS]

  though for those relying on that last [TS]

  podcast for actual detailed information [TS]

  on how markdown works don't I put the [TS]

  link to these actual markdown syntax [TS]

  documentation in the show notes so let [TS]

  me ask you a question then shouldn't [TS]

  your general lack of familiarity with [TS]

  markdown and its usage imply that your [TS]

  opinion maybe should be called into [TS]

  question because you're not really [TS]

  familiar with it you haven't maybe given [TS]

  it a chance you haven't given it a fair [TS]

  chance [TS]

  it's like saying oh I don't I don't like [TS]

  f-16s oh well why not well they have [TS]

  this wrong with them and this wrong that [TS]

  we'll have you ever flown an f-16 [TS]

  - no I don't like it i I've I've used it [TS]

  plenty but I guess in my writing I don't [TS]

  make words bold or italic and often you [TS]

  just we'll see about indecision and [TS]

  again I knew which was which I just for [TS]

  whatever reason I misspoke repeatedly [TS]

  during the show like I said well soon as [TS]

  I listen to it I said that's not how you [TS]

  make things I feel like so right yeah [TS]

  and no one sent that in so it must not [TS]

  have been that important so I think I do [TS]

  I am familiar enough with markdown to [TS]

  have a reasonable opinion on it okay I [TS]

  will grant you that and I will also say [TS]

  that maybe our audiences so become so [TS]

  trusting of you now they were all asleep [TS]

  come on that they no longer another [TS]

  question question if siracusa says so it [TS]

  must be true now they were all asleep [TS]

  all right so the next one we talked [TS]

  about a languages with specks I think [TS]

  it's part of that same episode I was [TS]

  mentioning that Perl ray doesn't have a [TS]

  language spec and I didn't know if pie [TS]

  did someone sent in the Python reference [TS]

  and we're talking about spec versus [TS]

  reference blah blah right and they said [TS]

  whether somebody else said the pointing [TS]

  out that the Ruby one is I guess under [TS]

  development right so this is this Ruby [TS]

  spec project is a project to write an [TS]

  executable specification for the Ruby [TS]

  programming language so that that [TS]

  apparently is underway although you [TS]

  noted what an executable specification [TS]

  is I guess it's more kind of like the [TS]

  Perl six test suite I'm not sure but [TS]

  anyway I put the link in the show notes [TS]

  so if people are interested in the state [TS]

  of spec development for Ruby they can [TS]

  follow that I think it's Ruby spec [TS]

  torgue the MIT course that I talked [TS]

  about when you went off on some weird [TS]

  side rail about robot competitions I [TS]

  don't even remember what prompted that [TS]

  I'm talking about robots yeah maybe that [TS]

  the name of that course is 6.2 seven [TS]

  zero its MIT is autonomous robot design [TS]

  competition and I put a link to that in [TS]

  the show notes I also put it in last [TS]

  week's show so if you're interested in [TS]

  what that is I was trying to find the [TS]

  old Nova episode from like the late 80s [TS]

  that showed the particular competition [TS]

  that I saw and I couldn't find video it [TS]

  online but they do list all the old [TS]

  competitions on their website that I [TS]

  liked and one this is a way back one at [TS]

  one point I was talking about was I've [TS]

  got battery life or not I was banned [TS]

  bandwidth usage you asked me if Sprint [TS]

  unlimited bandwidth would be a motivator [TS]

  for me to go to sprint and I was [TS]

  mentioning how I and I bought the 3G [TS]

  from my iPad I picked the middle plan [TS]

  due to anchoring and all that business [TS]

  uh but I didn't even come close to using [TS]

  the bandwidth whatever was to gigs I [TS]

  didn't even come close to it and I said [TS]

  and I was using it all day and I even [TS]

  watch from television shows and I [TS]

  mentioned that I watched Game of Thrones [TS]

  i netflix and of course they didn't [TS]

  watch Game of Thrones on netbooks [TS]

  because Netflix doesn't care Game of [TS]

  Thrones is usually easy and you just [TS]

  want to see are we really paying [TS]

  attention yeah well no I see I hear them [TS]

  when I listen to the episode I'm like [TS]

  what that makes no sense but when I'm [TS]

  talking I guess comes out too fast me to [TS]

  think but anyway Game of Thrones was on [TS]

  the HBO go iPad app which you have to be [TS]

  a subscriber to HBO I believe to view [TS]

  I'm always frustrated by that app is I [TS]

  can never remember what the hell my [TS]

  login well actually not to correct you [TS]

  it's not as simple as being a subscriber [TS]

  to HBO you have to be an HBO subscriber [TS]

  on the appropriate through the [TS]

  appropriate cable provider really yes [TS]

  and many of you have HBO through RCN or [TS]

  some other thing [TS]

  can't get it right or for example if [TS]

  you're here in the great state of Texas [TS]

  you would like to do that and you can't [TS]

  because most of us here are Time Warner [TS]

  Cable people we want my people but we [TS]

  you we're getting our HBO through Time [TS]

  Warner Cable and Time Warner Cable has [TS]

  not come to any kind of agreement with [TS]

  HBO and what that means is that we do [TS]

  not have the luxury of being able to use [TS]

  this wonderful app that the whole rest [TS]

  of the world uses and loves and benefits [TS]

  from we can't use it because Time Warner [TS]

  Cable and HBO they won't you know they [TS]

  won't sit in the same row together so we [TS]

  don't get to use it let's do but it is [TS]

  stupid and even when you can use it I'm [TS]

  constantly trying to figure out and [TS]

  remember how do I log into this app to [TS]

  convince it that I am actually a serrata [TS]

  subscriber to HBO through Verizon FiOS [TS]

  blah blah blah because there's some [TS]

  connection to your verizon account right [TS]

  I can never remember what my login and [TS]

  password isn't I get the impression that [TS]

  two different logins and passwords to [TS]

  possibly work it's a frustrating [TS]

  application alright so those are my [TS]

  quick follow-ups and then I have a [TS]

  slightly longer follow-up that I still [TS]

  want to get through and enough time so [TS]

  we can talk about Windows 8 this is a [TS]

  follow up to something you were talking [TS]

  about on the talk show yesterday I [TS]

  believe talking about before yes we have [TS]

  a lot to talk about about that but [TS]

  before we do I just want to say John [TS]

  Gruber for those who don't listen to the [TS]

  talk show jumping back to your markdown [TS]

  thing this is in my notes here John [TS]

  Gruber would whether or not he will have [TS]

  a thorough response or not we don't know [TS]

  but he is going to be listening to last [TS]

  week's episode of hyper critical to [TS]

  listen to your comments about markdown [TS]

  and he may in typical Gruber fashion so [TS]

  yeah well his news right and that might [TS]

  be his response or he may have a long [TS]

  thing so I would recommend that those [TS]

  who are interested in furthering [TS]

  discussion of markdown probably to wear [TS]

  to its end point will listen to next [TS]

  week's episode of the top show so that's [TS]

  the strategy now I just mentioned [TS]

  markdown in every show it's an Emmy [TS]

  convinced Gruber tool actually listen to [TS]

  them alright I think that's probably the [TS]

  only way we can get him to listen to a [TS]

  show would be to talk about something [TS]

  that he's known for him and has done [TS]

  probably I talk about him all the time [TS]

  that doesn't make him listen anyway [TS]

  now we have the Douglas star wear it [TS]

  Star Wars yeah ah he talked about and [TS]

  well first of all I could not believe [TS]

  that he didn't know about the whole [TS]

  Return of the Jedi [TS]

  no insertion I didn't know about it [TS]

  either I'll get one Internet are you [TS]

  people using not currently the wrong one [TS]

  my wife knew about this last week [TS]

  seriously you guys are behind well I [TS]

  think we're counting on you two to bring [TS]

  us a whole Star Wars nerd ISM there oh [TS]

  I'm like I'm not I'm not reading movie [TS]

  websites every day but it just it [TS]

  pirkled up percolates whatever comes up [TS]

  and I don't know how I not even know [TS]

  where I read it but everybody knew man I [TS]

  mean I I feel terrible yeah so so you [TS]

  discuss that a lot and my favorite thing [TS]

  about that show was that one of you I [TS]

  forget which one was made worse in the [TS]

  chatroom link to the amazon.com review [TS]

  for the ants that was me blu-ray [TS]

  complete collection did you write that [TS]

  you know 1129 reviews 829 of which are 1 [TS]

  stock right 70 something percent are 1 [TS]

  star reviews for this quote-unquote [TS]

  beloved movie wipe Israel hate George [TS]

  Lucas now it's great to see that because [TS]

  I always think it's like I was just this [TS]

  angry Star Wars nerds the only people [TS]

  who care but the mass of humanity loves [TS]

  it so I expected to go there and see how [TS]

  Star Wars blu-ray 5 stars everyone loves [TS]

  Star Wars but at this point I mean that [TS]

  seems like a high number of me it's not [TS]

  just Star Wars nerds going out of the [TS]

  way to rate this badly and all right I [TS]

  don't know maybe this hard to tell so [TS]

  way back on hypercritical episode 13 I [TS]

  talked about I again I don't how's the [TS]

  topic came up but I talked about how [TS]

  easy it would be for George Lucas to [TS]

  find like the very best technicians and [TS]

  artists who work for free to produce a [TS]

  digital clean version of the original [TS]

  trilogy without modification because [TS]

  like the most talented people in the [TS]

  entire industry would work so hard for [TS]

  him for free yeah do and do better work [TS]

  than they do for their paid work because [TS]

  it would be a labor of love to simply [TS]

  preserve the original trilogy as it [TS]

  existed when it was shown in theaters [TS]

  you know maybe clean it up a little bit [TS]

  for that set but the content would [TS]

  remain unchanged right and I linked to [TS]

  that secret history of Star Wars the [TS]

  thing about saving Star Wars I'll link [TS]

  to it again in this show notes about the [TS]

  state of the actual film negatives for [TS]

  the original Star [TS]

  was like the fact that the cutting [TS]

  pieces out of them to use in the new [TS]

  things and Lucas's bogus claims about [TS]

  how the original negatives are gone [TS]

  mm-hmm all sorts of stuff like that so [TS]

  people should read that link again in [TS]

  the show unto the demon already uh and I [TS]

  think we're never asking Gruber was [TS]

  saying wha [TS]

  that he's not gonna buy this one that [TS]

  he's given that guy enough money's got [TS]

  50 cuz I had I had asked him if he was [TS]

  going to be getting the the blu-ray [TS]

  version of of all of the Star Wars [TS]

  because that's it there that's what this [TS]

  is all about is that you can go to your [TS]

  favorite store or ordered on Amazon that [TS]

  all of the movies all of the Star Wars [TS]

  movies are being released on blu-ray [TS]

  episodes all of them all the new all the [TS]

  old everything yeah they do actually [TS]

  sell a separate one with just the [TS]

  prequels I think in a separate one with [TS]

  just the real movies okay I don't know I [TS]

  don't know what anyone would buy the [TS]

  Complete Saga because no one should ever [TS]

  have the prequels in their house if they [TS]

  can help it yeah yeah [TS]

  so and he said he wasn't gonna buy see [TS]

  already at 50 million copies now I have [TS]

  many copies as well we got VHS copies a [TS]

  couple of different VHS copies one of [TS]

  which i think is even actually the [TS]

  special edition and I do have the DVD [TS]

  versions of the original trilogy also [TS]

  but I also have like a DVD transfer of [TS]

  the laserdisc version which is the [TS]

  unadulterated non special edition thing [TS]

  but it's only DVD quality so these are [TS]

  all standard def and the whole reason [TS]

  Star Wars blu-rays are big deals because [TS]

  it's the first time they'll be [TS]

  officially available high-definition [TS]

  version of the Star Wars movies as far [TS]

  as I know I think there's never been any [TS]

  official high debt versions of the [TS]

  movies released good they look really [TS]

  good visually and that's what people [TS]

  initially would think weakly oh it's [TS]

  gonna be all array it's gonna be Star [TS]

  Wars when they did that the DVDs I [TS]

  remember looking at them and thinking [TS]

  that for example Darth Vader's [TS]

  lightsaber look too pink to me like that [TS]

  I remembered it being redder and they [TS]

  supposedly had cleaned them up and colic [TS]

  right ebay ignored like in scenes didn't [TS]

  have any additions than no Digital [TS]

  Editions I don't know that just like it [TS]

  looked different to me and there's lots [TS]

  of scholarly research on the web where [TS]

  you can find people showing scenes with [TS]

  different color balances through many [TS]

  different versions people arguing over [TS]

  what it should look like how it was [TS]

  projected or whether when it was [TS]

  projected it look different because the [TS]

  projector was set up badly or whatever [TS]

  so we're I'm going to come down this is [TS]

  that I may buy the original trilogy on [TS]

  blu-ray for one reason and that reason [TS]

  is Empire Strikes Back which is one of [TS]

  my favorite movies of all times and [TS]

  crucially the least adulterated of the [TS]

  original trilogy films certainly now [TS]

  with the stupid no and Return of the [TS]

  Jedi as far as I know that have not been [TS]

  any additional crap Lucas isms added to [TS]

  Empire Strikes Back and the things added [TS]

  thus far have been smaller not lots of [TS]

  like plot altering sacrilegious content [TS]

  crap like you know Rito shooting first [TS]

  that business so that totally destroys a [TS]

  new hope right and those stupid [TS]

  dinosaurs jumping all over the place [TS]

  which grazetti didn't mind but I [TS]

  certainly do mine the knee replacement [TS]

  of the ghost at the end of Return our [TS]

  Jedi would that with Hayden Christensen [TS]

  yeah that Return of the Jedi hundreds [TS]

  more fathers do thing now it becomes [TS]

  unwatchable you can't even watch that so [TS]

  what about the Ewoks who blink and you [TS]

  can hear them blinking yeah like that I [TS]

  mean I think content changers are more [TS]

  egregious in elements so both Return of [TS]

  the Jedi and a new hope have these [TS]

  horrible content changes and Empire [TS]

  Strikes Back as far as I know it was the [TS]

  least adulterated before and as far as I [TS]

  know in the blu-ray it continues to be [TS]

  the least adulterated without any stupid [TS]

  content changes so what it will give me [TS]

  is a much higher quality version of [TS]

  Empire Strikes Back that I will actually [TS]

  deign to watch even though it is not [TS]

  100% pure like they painted in all the [TS]

  windows in the Cloud City and they have [TS]

  a new sequence where you fly through the [TS]

  cloud city before the money falcon lands [TS]

  and stuff like that sticks out and it's [TS]

  annoying and I could do without it oh [TS]

  the stupid scene with Darth Vader taking [TS]

  his shuttle from Cloud City back to the [TS]

  Star Destroyer as if we didn't know how [TS]

  he got there before now that explains it [TS]

  I did it before I was so confused when [TS]

  it appeared on the Stars bro right get [TS]

  there I have no idea so stuff like that [TS]

  I mean it's stupid but it's nothing [TS]

  close to yeah you know Greedo shooting [TS]

  first or or the the stupid ghost [TS]

  replacement or the no with Chuck and [TS]

  amber over so that's why I think I may [TS]

  find myself in possession of an empire [TS]

  strikes back [TS]

  a blu-ray at some point mm-hmm certainly [TS]

  not the prequels and the other two yeah [TS]

  so one last thing on this a friend of [TS]

  mine were talking about this online and [TS]

  he did a blog post recently about it [TS]

  with the great title bad motive [TS]

  and it's about George Lucas copyright [TS]

  and all that other business I put a link [TS]

  to it in the show notes his main point [TS]

  his larger point aside from you know [TS]

  Lucas tweaking these films and doing his [TS]

  horrible mistakes and stuff is that [TS]

  copyright is way too long I would [TS]

  basically have a eternal copyright in [TS]

  this country because of the various [TS]

  Mickey Mouse clauses every time Disney's [TS]

  properties come up for a cop to to go [TS]

  into the public domain [TS]

  Disney lobbies Congress and they extend [TS]

  copyright longer so even though [TS]

  copyright is supposed to be for quote [TS]

  unquote a limited time every time that [TS]

  limit is about to be reached [TS]

  they just extended farther so copyright [TS]

  is ridiculously long and my friend his [TS]

  name is John McCoy his point was that if [TS]

  the if the original Star Wars films had [TS]

  been released under the original 17-year [TS]

  term of copyright I don't remember what [TS]

  that term is from is that the original [TS]

  term in the first instance of copyright [TS]

  law I don't I didn't look it up but you [TS]

  can but anyway I trust his his research [TS]

  here if it had been released under that [TS]

  thing we wouldn't be having this debate [TS]

  because the material will be in the [TS]

  public domain and as he points out [TS]

  criterion could release a restored [TS]

  original version with commentary by you [TS]

  know historians and fans Walmart could [TS]

  release a version with all the incest [TS]

  taken out this alliance from his article [TS]

  ya know what if they if they're offended [TS]

  by their brother and sister kissing you [TS]

  know in Empire Strikes Back they could [TS]

  remove that right Lucas Lucas could make [TS]

  his stupid versions Jar Jar everywhere [TS]

  right and it's a quote from this thing [TS]

  the point is that art with the capital a [TS]

  would be served in commerce with a [TS]

  capital C little cent sign would be [TS]

  served as well so it the fact that you [TS]

  know the rights holders are not the [TS]

  right people to hold the rights of [TS]

  things you shouldn't have them this [TS]

  longer this had been if this was in the [TS]

  public domain people will be making more [TS]

  money and there would be more artistic [TS]

  freedom we wouldn't be having this [TS]

  debate you know it's not as if we'd be [TS]

  taking rights away from Lucas he would [TS]

  still have the right to release his [TS]

  great version with all these special [TS]

  stuffin and if that's actually better [TS]

  people would buy it but now these are [TS]

  the only versions you know as Gruber [TS]

  point out if someone just released the [TS]

  if you just released the original [TS]

  trilogy and these modified ones then the [TS]

  consumers could pick whichever we want [TS]

  no one would care they'd be like all [TS]

  those new changes think but I'm just [TS]

  gonna buy the other one right [TS]

  instead we wouldn't all be hating Lucas [TS]

  because he's just denying us the [TS]

  original movies that we want to see and [TS]

  hide that version so I suggest people [TS]

  read that length article [TS]

  a bad motivator on John McCoy's blog [TS]

  strangely titled pathetic fallacy ok [TS]

  faith has some sums ask us about this or [TS]

  me mainly alright ok this this is my [TS]

  question like I didn't understand why [TS]

  people were getting so like upset about [TS]

  Lukas changing the movies because [TS]

  they're his movies so shouldn't he [TS]

  shouldn't he'd be able to but you sort [TS]

  of just answered it so just correct me [TS]

  if I if I'm not getting this right so [TS]

  people the grievance people have with [TS]

  this is that the original versions are [TS]

  no longer available it's not solely that [TS]

  he's making alterations to them so I'm [TS]

  going to quote from John McCoy again [TS]

  who's my obi-wan on his topic you're [TS]

  your obi-wan yeah at a certain point the [TS]

  relevance art was more to the actions of [TS]

  the audience than to the author like [TS]

  it's his when he creates it and he [TS]

  deserves to be able to make money from [TS]

  it but once it goes out into the public [TS]

  consciousness it becomes part of our [TS]

  culture it's no longer his it's part of [TS]

  the culture and he can do whatever he [TS]

  wants with derivatives of it and change [TS]

  it and stuff like that but the original [TS]

  Star Wars should be part of the popular [TS]

  culture and should not be held captive [TS]

  for 90 years or however long to the [TS]

  whims of this person so much so if he [TS]

  refuses to release the original version [TS]

  of the film that we all saw in the 70s [TS]

  and 80s right that's part of the culture [TS]

  that's not his anymore it's bigger than [TS]

  him so he shouldn't be able to somebody [TS]

  shouldn't I mean the laws are the laws [TS]

  what I'm saying is do anything illegal [TS]

  or immoral or even unethical it's just [TS]

  bad for the culture it's it's bad for [TS]

  commerce not that that really matters [TS]

  that much but it's additionally bad for [TS]

  commerce and it's just bad for everybody [TS]

  bad for arc it makes all of us unhappy [TS]

  so again I wouldn't say what he's not [TS]

  doing anything legal he's not doing [TS]

  anything immoral and I don't think he's [TS]

  even doing anything unethical he's just [TS]

  doing something it is suboptimal [TS]

  let's say so yeah then the main gripe [TS]

  people have is not so much of he's [TS]

  changing his thing the way he wants it [TS]

  fine let him do whatever the heck he [TS]

  wants it's his it's that he's also you [TS]

  know being a stick-in-the-mud and not [TS]

  giving us the original versions that we [TS]

  all saw that we all want seriously it's [TS]

  not like it's on he went added an [TS]

  additional chapter to the end of a novel [TS]

  like Anthony Burgess did with Clockwork [TS]

  Orange where it changes the whole feel [TS]

  of a novel and that kind of thing you're [TS]

  saying that because the original not the [TS]

  work is is essentially been redacted [TS]

  it's been removed it's it's been read [TS]

  Condon there's there is no way to go [TS]

  back and see what was originally a like [TS]

  I unless you have an original negative [TS]

  from the original theatrical runs you [TS]

  can't even like you know if you're a [TS]

  movie theater so I want to show the [TS]

  original trilogy not the special [TS]

  editions you can't even get that movie [TS]

  you know it please I will sell tickets [TS]

  and I will give you money in exchange [TS]

  for people who come to see this movie [TS]

  and then know that we won't give it to [TS]

  you again that's his legal right and I [TS]

  don't think it's a moral or ethical [TS]

  thing that is just it's just worse for [TS]

  our culture our culture is poorer for it [TS]

  for not being able to see those movies [TS]

  you know we have to just wait has one [TS]

  ever to wait till he's dead I guess I [TS]

  wait you know who knows when the [TS]

  copyright bill ever expire or how long [TS]

  it will be with his estate that's [TS]

  another thing that John McCloy brings up [TS]

  in his article talking about the James [TS]

  Joyce estate and how they've held on to [TS]

  his rights for so long and how the [TS]

  ancestors of great artists are not [TS]

  necessarily the best stewards of the [TS]

  work because they're not interested in [TS]

  the greater benefit of the culture the [TS]

  more interested in either lining their [TS]

  pockets are protecting the works from [TS]

  any altercation alteration rather did [TS]

  you see there was an article that came [TS]

  out I don't know how actually how old [TS]

  the article was but affiliate was a [TS]

  recent where Steven Spielberg announced [TS]

  it for his blu-ray stuff of like et that [TS]

  he is going to be removing the things [TS]

  that he that he did to change it I want [TS]

  the the example that I remember was [TS]

  cited was at one point The Secret [TS]

  Service agents were running around with [TS]

  guns and while it was during the scene [TS]

  where Elliot and sorry for preventing [TS]

  the movie for those haven't seen et I [TS]

  guess it will get email oh you ruined [TS]

  social Redemption bleep okay okay fine [TS]

  don't listen for the next three minutes [TS]

  the part where Elliot et riding and the [TS]

  bike and et is up in the front and [TS]

  they're escaping after et wakes up and [TS]

  the I guess it in this scene the Secret [TS]

  Service agents are running around with [TS]

  yeah I don't know whether it was machine [TS]

  guns or pistols or whatever they had [TS]

  guns and Spielberg went back in and [TS]

  tweaked the heck out of this thing and [TS]

  turned it into walkie talkies so they [TS]

  were running around with walkie-talkies [TS]

  point [TS]

  to that ad I guess uh and so he he had [TS]

  changed that and he had I guess he said [TS]

  that he felt that he had somehow [TS]

  betrayed the original feeling associated [TS]

  with the movie and is is going to [TS]

  restore the original et movie the way it [TS]

  was originally filmed regardless of what [TS]

  was changed later he's restoring the [TS]

  original one for this final sort of [TS]

  blu-ray release as well he should and [TS]

  you know if I can I'll take a second to [TS]

  armchair psychoanalyze without ever [TS]

  meeting or really knowing anything about [TS]

  Lucas and Spielberg to compare why one [TS]

  is reversing the other has just doubled [TS]

  down Lucas has always been I think he [TS]

  sees himself as an outsider and always [TS]

  has seen himself as an outsider he [TS]

  wanted to get out of the Hollywood [TS]

  system he wanted to you know do his own [TS]

  thing on Scott Walker Ranch wanted to be [TS]

  an independent filmmaker didn't want to [TS]

  be under the thumb of studios didn't [TS]

  like dealing with him always wanted to [TS]

  be financially independent and I think [TS]

  that comes from like sort of an [TS]

  us-versus-them oppressed minority thing [TS]

  even though he's like you know the [TS]

  800-pound gorilla at this point right [TS]

  this is just his attitude so that's why [TS]

  when people criticize him for making [TS]

  changes he's not able to process that [TS]

  criticism constructively but simply [TS]

  withdraws and become stubborn says oh [TS]

  yeah well I'm going to add more stuff [TS]

  debt and you know climate wheezing it's [TS]

  doing what Dan paper kids the kids love [TS]

  like that [TS]

  he's the grumpy kid who's like being [TS]

  stubborn and just I know I won't do it [TS]

  the more you the more you yell about the [TS]

  more I'm going to you know where [TS]

  Spielberg is well-adjusted enough to [TS]

  look at the criticism and think about it [TS]

  so maybe they are right maybe I am going [TS]

  back and changing things because you [TS]

  know my attitude may be different when [TS]

  I'm older but the a younger Steven [TS]

  Spielberg made that movie and why [TS]

  shouldn't the work of that younger [TS]

  Steven Spielberg be preserved as part of [TS]

  our culture as being being erased well [TS]

  giving an example of that is that I [TS]

  heard an interview with with Spielberg [TS]

  and this was a number of years ago and [TS]

  they were saying is there anything that [TS]

  you would have changed about any of your [TS]

  movies and I guess they were talking [TS]

  about Close Encounters of the Third Kind [TS]

  and by the way I'm going to ruin the end [TS]

  of Close Encounters of the Third Kind [TS]

  now in case you haven't seen it have you [TS]

  not seen a face she's look [TS]

  me you haven't seen it oh wow well I'm [TS]

  going to ruin it for you I'm sorry this [TS]

  is the downside of the job [TS]

  occasionally I will ruin movies for you [TS]

  on the show uh Spielberg said well I [TS]

  wouldn't have had him go at the end I [TS]

  feel like as a dad now it would be [TS]

  irresponsible for him to go uh because [TS]

  he had a family out of you know a family [TS]

  wife I'm I do having him go was a very [TS]

  irresponsible thing that I as a young [TS]

  director without a family didn't see [TS]

  didn't think about didn't wasn't really [TS]

  aware of now I wouldn't have him go but [TS]

  he didn't go back and you know airbrush [TS]

  Dreyfuss uh off the the the plank [TS]

  walking onto the ship either [TS]

  he left it he's maybe he regretted that [TS]

  but he said you know what that this was [TS]

  the movie that I made another example is [TS]

  a jaws where they couldn't get the [TS]

  stupid mechanical shark torch at work at [TS]

  the time so they didn't have the shark [TS]

  in a lot of the shots right and [TS]

  everybody said oh you know that's so [TS]

  great so suspenseful right because we [TS]

  don't get to see the sure but really [TS]

  just because they couldn't get the [TS]

  special effects to work and he was [TS]

  worried about oh god we couldn't get the [TS]

  stupid mechanical shark to work if [TS]

  people are going to be scared by this [TS]

  movie and as it turns out they're even [TS]

  more scared by not seeing it so he [TS]

  couldn't go back in there the CG shark [TS]

  to all the scenes like I always wanted [TS]

  that mechanical shark to work him the [TS]

  stupid thing wouldn't work and I'm gonna [TS]

  go back and edit which is kind of like [TS]

  what Lucas did because he was one of [TS]

  these special effects to be just so and [TS]

  have more aliens and he went back and [TS]

  headed them but Steven Spielberg was [TS]

  smart enough to realize hey wait a [TS]

  second actually it's better without that [TS]

  everyone tells me and I find it to be [TS]

  true my own experience that not seeing [TS]

  the shark is even scarier than seeing it [TS]

  so were you going back and adding the CG [TS]

  shark condition to modifying the [TS]

  original it regardless whether you [TS]

  released original it would make the [TS]

  movie worse and so he he realizes that's [TS]

  the case and does not go back and add [TS]

  the CG shark so I found I found the [TS]

  article not to you know beat a dead [TS]

  horse or anything I found the article [TS]

  put it in the show notes but it was for [TS]

  the 20th anniversary edition Spielberg [TS]

  made some changes to the movie and he [TS]

  says some scenes of et got the CGI [TS]

  treatment to enhance his expression a [TS]

  certain description of Michael's breath [TS]

  was removed and most famously the police [TS]

  had their weapons replaced with walkie [TS]

  talkies and and and and he says here he [TS]

  I guess he was uh he was interviewed in [TS]

  front of a crowd at [TS]

  Raiders the Lost Ark event and he said [TS]

  if he needed to go back and change [TS]

  things in his movies the director [TS]

  responded quote I tried this once and I [TS]

  lived to regret it not because a fan [TS]

  outraged it but simply because I was [TS]

  disappointed in myself I was overly [TS]

  sensitive to some of the criticism et [TS]

  got from parent groups when was first [TS]

  released in 1982 having to do with [TS]

  Elliott saying penis breath or the guns [TS]

  and then there were certain other [TS]

  brilliant but rough around the edges [TS]

  close-ups of et that I was felt if [TS]

  technology ever evolves to the point [TS]

  where I can do some facial enhancement [TS]

  for et I'd like to he said it was okay [TS]

  for a while but then I realized what I [TS]

  had done was I had robbed the people who [TS]

  loved each of their memories of et and I [TS]

  regretted that which he received a [TS]

  massive applause the only contrition [TS]

  that I really performed is when et came [TS]

  out on DVD for the first time I asked [TS]

  Universal when you released this on DVD [TS]

  you have to come out for the same price [TS]

  of one DVD you have to put two movies in [TS]

  the box and one movie will be the 1982 [TS]

  version and the other will be the [TS]

  digitally enhanced version and then he I [TS]

  went on to ask the audience he says I [TS]

  know we're coming out with a blu-ray of [TS]

  ET if it just came out with one ET the [TS]

  1982 et would anyone object to that and [TS]

  he says there were loud knows from the [TS]

  audience and he said okay then so be it [TS]

  yeah see he's at least self-aware enough [TS]

  to realize like what's going like a war [TS]

  or something [TS]

  okay Cessna in the bar you in a Cessna [TS]

  I'm not an assessment that's a lawn [TS]

  mower [TS]

  that's a lawn mower what kind of lawns [TS]

  do you have up there n' if you want beer [TS]

  I'm pretty much done with the Star Wars [TS]

  thing so if you want you can do a [TS]

  sponsor before we go into Windows 8 [TS]

  that's a mower yes holy cow all right [TS]

  campaign monitor they've released a core [TS]

  these guys these are guys you go to if [TS]

  you want a gorgeous email newsletter [TS]

  these are the guys who go because they [TS]

  have they've updated their editor so you [TS]

  get them the most amazing editor out [TS]

  there for creating newsletters and to [TS]

  celebrate this release they're giving [TS]

  away tons of these these templates they [TS]

  went to the best designers on the web [TS]

  and they said we want you to make us [TS]

  some templates and we'll give them away [TS]

  to all of our users for free you go to [TS]

  campaign monitor comm slash templates [TS]

  you can see these you can also catch a [TS]

  demo of their new editor in action at [TS]

  the same address and campaign monitor [TS]

  you know the think of it as email [TS]

  marketing software but it's for web [TS]

  designers it's it's all elegant it's all [TS]

  beautiful it's a hundred percent rebrand [TS]

  Abul make a ton of features you can try [TS]

  it for free lots of different plans [TS]

  campaign monitor comm check them out [TS]

  there's still no no no we're still going [TS]

  you want to kill time by talking to [TS]

  faith about movie shed and seeing that [TS]

  should be done like 10 minutes well the [TS]

  one the one thing we've talked about and [TS]

  I will I will mention this now we [TS]

  haven't really we haven't really have we [TS]

  really said this or not but there there [TS]

  is a mum you and I enjoy I think a lot [TS]

  of the same movies although I'm not as [TS]

  much into you know like they're you know [TS]

  Dragon Slayer from 1982 as you are um we [TS]

  think that you know about that movie [TS]

  proves you wrong I've seen the movie I [TS]

  remember the little baby dragons I [TS]

  remember a shield oh yeah hear that it [TS]

  came out and so I'm guessing at the year [TS]

  and I was expecting you to tell me you [TS]

  know Dan it was 79 you fool uh not to be [TS]

  confused with with the Dragon Slayer [TS]

  game completely different thing that was [TS]

  the laserdisc game where you would have [TS]

  your little cartoon character running my [TS]

  dragon's lair think for a second what [TS]

  was that call dragon's lair lair lair [TS]

  that's what I said dragon's lair oh I'm [TS]

  missing the you're trying to do a [TS]

  some kind of bad pun there Slayer versus [TS]

  well the movie was Slayer the movie was [TS]

  lair I said not to be confused with [TS]

  dragon's lair okay okay all right where [TS]

  you add a little cartoon character and [TS]

  you would run and you'd supposed to hit [TS]

  the jump button at a certain exact [TS]

  moment impossible for a you know young [TS]

  teenager to perfectly time because you [TS]

  had no experience perfectly timing to [TS]

  the seeking speed of a laserdisc well [TS]

  the thing was jumping not that but was [TS]

  there a jump on I thought it was just [TS]

  the joystick there was a joystick there [TS]

  was a jump button there was an attack [TS]

  button there was everything you had [TS]

  everything confusing game and it cost 50 [TS]

  cents to play now now I think it's a [TS]

  good doll er to play the most basic [TS]

  video game but back when this game came [TS]

  out it would that was a fort that was a [TS]

  small fortune for a kid with an [TS]

  allowance and then you can you couldn't [TS]

  get past the second stage Oh what was I [TS]

  supposed to do was I supposed to jump [TS]

  was I supposed to attack this is [TS]

  supposed to hit left and then you'd see [TS]

  the guy who owned the arcade joint come [TS]

  over there and play for two hours on on [TS]

  a couple quarters as he'd been practiced [TS]

  prior to gauntlet you ever played [TS]

  gauntlet you're going farther down this [TS]

  rathole I guess I play gauntlet who are [TS]

  you in gauntlet Valkyrie we shot the [TS]

  food I was either the warrior or the [TS]

  health usually you know what would be [TS]

  cool is if you get the elf [TS]

  and you get the boots of speed oh watch [TS]

  out man watch out that's you'd run out [TS]

  there and grab all that treasure for the [TS]

  other warrior be back there you know [TS]

  hacking away the ghosts the grunts all [TS]

  right so pop pop the stack pop the stack [TS]

  here what is a hat I'm trying to tell [TS]

  you to clean your programmer I'm trying [TS]

  to tell you to to go back if you stack [TS]

  frames return from your deeply nested [TS]

  subroutine to the higher level thing you [TS]

  happy for the longer you got onto this [TS]

  topic because that you kill time I don't [TS]

  know you said kill time so this is what [TS]

  I do I kill the trainer I don't remember [TS]

  what the original thing was at this [TS]

  point it was something about how you're [TS]

  not a oh you're talking about movie us [TS]

  doing a movie thing yeah there you go [TS]

  Goodfellas yes we're going to talk about [TS]

  Goodfellas on an upcoming episode of the [TS]

  show and you [TS]

  you want some day we will because we [TS]

  have things in common [TS]

  movies that we like and this is this is [TS]

  one of the greatest all-time movies and [TS]

  you you suggested early on when we first [TS]

  started doing the show I said I said we [TS]

  should talk movies too because we have a [TS]

  lot of these movies that we have in [TS]

  common including Dragon Slayer which I [TS]

  know is when your favorites and you you [TS]

  had said well Goodfellas we have to talk [TS]

  about that and you in fact I think went [TS]

  on to say please don't talk about that [TS]

  with anybody else until we've had a [TS]

  chance to talk about because I have so [TS]

  much to say about it and I made you that [TS]

  promise I would just like to say Lou we [TS]

  should announce it at least now we're we [TS]

  do have plans to do this we will do it [TS]

  on the show we'll do it on no other show [TS]

  I think we already announced that it was [TS]

  so long ago people may have forgotten [TS]

  but yes I wanted to get dibs on it [TS]

  because I was afraid you're going to run [TS]

  out of Bond movies and start doing with [TS]

  Gruber we will not we will not be doing [TS]

  Goodfellas there we will do be doing in [TS]

  here I was trying to like plant all [TS]

  gangster movies so we could have [TS]

  Godfather 1 and 2 after that that's [TS]

  great they are you up for it and then [TS]

  pretend three doesn't exist and so on [TS]

  and so forth are you up for it and we'll [TS]

  see how the first one goes it's gotta be [TS]

  good Phyllis it's gotta be good fuck yes [TS]

  yes I'm all ready to watch in [TS]

  preparation for whenever we can arrange [TS]

  to record do we do it as part of the [TS]

  show or is it a special separate I think [TS]

  it's a special separate thing otherwise [TS]

  the shuttle go too long okay and some [TS]

  people don't want to people complain [TS]

  about many topics on hypercritical that [TS]

  are not relevant to Apple or technology [TS]

  huh even really in certainly Goodfellas [TS]

  so it will be a separate separate [TS]

  episode yes special you had some ideas [TS]

  for like making a special show with some [TS]

  weird title that would be you talking [TS]

  about movies with the fairies other host [TS]

  I would like that I feel like it could [TS]

  just be you and me on that show well [TS]

  maybe I'm stirring it all right let's uh [TS]

  when it was eight windows 8 Metro what [TS]

  can you say that hasn't been said at [TS]

  this point Oh what is that what is that [TS]

  we got leaf blowers now but they're the [TS]

  tail-end can you fix this in post or [TS]

  should we just wait for leaf blowers to [TS]

  go away I think it's adds a little bit [TS]

  of character to the to the show I don't [TS]

  I'm not taking any of this out all right [TS]

  I'll throw in another correction my [TS]

  friend John McCoy just points out that [TS]

  the original copyright term was 14 years [TS]

  not 17 he made a mistake in his article [TS]

  so there's a little real-time follow-up [TS]

  for you [TS]

  a Bernard you have up there and not not [TS]

  a big yard at all that's why they'll be [TS]

  done shortly you don't know that [TS]

  yourself no I did for a while but then [TS]

  like at a certain point I spent my whole [TS]

  teenage years mowing my parents lawn and [TS]

  they had a much bigger lawn than I do [TS]

  and a certain point of like you know [TS]

  what I'm done mowing lawns I've put in [TS]

  my quota of lawn mowing and yeah it's [TS]

  much much more economical I'm with you [TS]

  to have someone just do it for you done [TS]

  with you yeah cuz otherwise I'll be [TS]

  spending every single weekend during the [TS]

  summer just mowing the lawn and doing [TS]

  lawn maintenance all right that's not [TS]

  how I want to spend my weekends no I [TS]

  hear that this is this is sort of your [TS]

  take on the the good of the many [TS]

  outweigh the good of the one yeah [TS]

  so nuclear are they gone [TS]

  can we talk about how they're not gone [TS]

  but they're more distant so so Windows 8 [TS]

  uh I tried to watch some of the keynote [TS]

  and I could not handle the the [TS]

  presentation he went on forever I didn't [TS]

  like the ball guy is that what [TS]

  everything there was two hosts on the [TS]

  screen none the actual keynote the one [TS]

  like that the first keynote of the day [TS]

  there was two hosts who kept going back [TS]

  and forth through each other and they [TS]

  were just hyperactive and they were [TS]

  making me this is making me nervous to [TS]

  watch them but so then Gruber linked and [TS]

  recommended disliked the afternoon [TS]

  keynote or some other thing it was a [TS]

  Jensen Harris gave this talk on the [TS]

  title was eight traits of great [TS]

  metro-style apps and if the title is [TS]

  misleading is really just like going [TS]

  through the philosophy and underpinnings [TS]

  of the entire metro UI and it's 90 [TS]

  minutes long it's just one host and it [TS]

  is kind of long and boring but I watched [TS]

  the whole thing and it does do a good [TS]

  job of explaining the UI so while I was [TS]

  watching it I was making notes I might [TS]

  try to make notes watching the keynote [TS]

  but I just couldn't take any more of it [TS]

  I watched that whole nine you made a [TS]

  video I made lots of random notes so ah [TS]

  they're not really that well-organized I [TS]

  just kind of go through them in the [TS]

  order they appear on my on my note sheet [TS]

  here because I think I think Windows 8 [TS]

  is very interesting the first thing I [TS]

  notice that is I and I noted this Gruber [TS]

  as well it isn't kind of weird that [TS]

  Microsoft considers it [TS]

  a to publicly show broken and buggy code [TS]

  and demos like that's something it's [TS]

  very different from the Apple world [TS]

  where so Apple will show like user [TS]

  preview of the upcoming Mac OS 10 line [TS]

  in Steve Jobs or whoever Craig federighi [TS]

  is that his name will get up on stage [TS]

  and demo a pre-release version of the [TS]

  operating system acknowledging that it's [TS]

  not done yet but everything in that demo [TS]

  is going to work and if it doesn't it's [TS]

  you know it's notable right so even [TS]

  though the whole lesson may not be done [TS]

  everything they're going to demo has to [TS]

  work just demo the parts that work don't [TS]

  demo the parts that don't work and [TS]

  rehearse that demo six or seven times so [TS]

  that you know yeah when I do this is [TS]

  these all these things are going to work [TS]

  right whereas Microsoft and all the [TS]

  demos that I saw in this age you know [TS]

  traits of great metro-style apps and the [TS]

  other keynote tons of stuff wasn't [TS]

  working there was lots of you know lots [TS]

  of failures and lots of people pulling [TS]

  at the screen and not doing what they [TS]

  was supposed to do on the first second [TS]

  or third try I guess it was a little bit [TS]

  of that with uh with Craig federighi [TS]

  trying to do gestures with his very [TS]

  nervous shaky fingers on the the Magic [TS]

  Mouse right but you know that's not it's [TS]

  not so much as failure and software here [TS]

  I saw things happening with people to [TS]

  try to touch a button on the screen [TS]

  nothing would happen and they would [TS]

  reset the device at one point in the [TS]

  demo he switches to the Windows desktop [TS]

  goes to the task manager and kills a [TS]

  process then comes back and it [TS]

  relaunches and it works the second you [TS]

  know so lots really I mean I'm not [TS]

  saying that's bad it's pretty Lea [TS]

  software but it's a different it's a [TS]

  different philosophy that Microsoft was [TS]

  willing to do it do and show anything [TS]

  but they also didn't have the discipline [TS]

  to make sure that everything shown [TS]

  during their demos was guaranteed to [TS]

  work because they done it seven times [TS]

  before right like maybe they had done it [TS]

  before but the coulee didn't go through [TS]

  enough rehearsals to know whether this [TS]

  stuff was going to work maybe they [TS]

  didn't have time so that's just a [TS]

  different philosophy I think and it's [TS]

  different also WWDC in the sessions like [TS]

  not in the keynote but in the actual [TS]

  session as a WWC you'll see stuff not [TS]

  work and stop crashes they're showing [TS]

  some pre-release feature of an operating [TS]

  system but this was public this was I [TS]

  mean that's the difference I guess with [TS]

  Microsoft and everything else is [TS]

  everything that this build conference [TS]

  seems to be public on they put all the [TS]

  video on Channel nine for free I didn't [TS]

  have to pay anything I didn't have to [TS]

  sign up for any account I could just go [TS]

  to the website and look at the video so [TS]

  Microsoft is much more open and much [TS]

  more willing to show you the unfinished [TS]

  bits of [TS]

  they're doing so broadly speaking the [TS]

  first thing I noted when they were going [TS]

  through these Metro apps is you can [TS]

  write them in C++ C sharp or JavaScript [TS]

  HTML and zamel which is their XML UI [TS]

  definition thing that they do now that [TS]

  gets back to the k√∂ppen 2010 stuff [TS]

  we're saying a look at Microsoft they of [TS]

  course they have their C sharp memory [TS]

  manage language with the VM and all that [TS]

  other stuff and of course they have [TS]

  JavaScript HTML which is even higher [TS]

  level but there's also C++ and there's [TS]

  this whole big idea of a C++ Renaissance [TS]

  going on at Microsoft and other [TS]

  companies where previously C++ was [TS]

  dumped on because it was complicated and [TS]

  fragile and annoying but new C++ [TS]

  standards to come out adding new [TS]

  features and libraries that hide the [TS]

  ugly bits for you or standard people the [TS]

  community is standardized in some [TS]

  libraries that get rid of some of the [TS]

  rough edges let you do things that were [TS]

  previously too annoying to do yourself [TS]

  so it's in typical Microsoft fashion [TS]

  they want everything but you can do to [TS]

  see bus plus you can do it in c-sharp or [TS]

  just kind of in the middle there and you [TS]

  can even do in JavaScript you know so [TS]

  they're very different from Apple in [TS]

  that philosophy is they're not they [TS]

  didn't they didn't pick one language [TS]

  they have this whole language is [TS]

  spanning an entire range I that's come [TS]

  becomes interesting when you start [TS]

  talking about Windows unarm which [TS]

  Microsoft is doing they want to through [TS]

  their operating system to run on [TS]

  different processor architecture now if [TS]

  you write your app in javascript in HTML [TS]

  for example you don't have to worry [TS]

  about it running on arm because this [TS]

  like there's no compiling it will run an [TS]

  arm just fine right and c-sharp because [TS]

  it runs in the common language on time I [TS]

  assume will also have a similar property [TS]

  that your application will run an arm as [TS]

  long as they can get the common language [TS]

  runtime to run an arm right but your C++ [TS]

  application you will need to recompile [TS]

  if you wanted to run an arm so even [TS]

  their own language range is kind of [TS]

  spread across the the ease of getting on [TS]

  to arm and I think right now people [TS]

  didn't even know well so what you know [TS]

  windows an arm is that important am I [TS]

  going to want to do that is that like [TS]

  essential it's kind of a wait-and-see [TS]

  attitude so I'm not sure people are [TS]

  making language choices based on arm at [TS]

  this point till they see what the arm [TS]

  stuff is doing so the next thing that [TS]

  occurred to me watching this is that all [TS]

  these things are showing written [TS]

  everything but the key the key issue is [TS]

  Microsoft give the devs the developers [TS]

  to come over to their platform like [TS]

  that's always been the problem with [TS]

  Windows Phone they're always trying to [TS]

  throw money at people say if you make [TS]

  make your app for Windows Phone make [TS]

  Angry Birds for Windows Phone here will [TS]

  give you tons of money just you know [TS]

  make your cool app for Windows Phone [TS]

  please please you know anybody they're [TS]

  looking for anybody who does a great [TS]

  mobile app on another platform to come [TS]

  over and make mobile apps for Windows [TS]

  Phone Apple didn't have to really do [TS]

  that it seems like Apple didn't have to [TS]

  do that as much maybe Apple did go out [TS]

  to EA and everybody throw money at them [TS]

  and get them to make iPhone games [TS]

  originally but certainly at this point [TS]

  people are going to iOS because that's [TS]

  where the money already is whereas [TS]

  Microsoft is trying to get them to come [TS]

  to the phone and the tablet it's the [TS]

  same type of thing you can make this [TS]

  great cool platform but if you can't the [TS]

  developers to come and make your your [TS]

  apps for that platform you're just gonna [TS]

  you know it's a it's a chicken-egg thing [TS]

  so some of the things they were using [TS]

  the presentation to try to get [TS]

  developers over is the typical line you [TS]

  know some of you are going to get rich [TS]

  on this platform you know put the dollar [TS]

  signs in their eyes you come right you [TS]

  know Metro apps you will get rich some [TS]

  of you were going to build apps that are [TS]

  used by hundreds and millions of people [TS]

  you know because Microsoft has the [TS]

  biggest ecosystem that was the big thing [TS]

  they were pressing is like we're [TS]

  Microsoft you know even though I guess [TS]

  even though we're doing nothing in a [TS]

  tablet space and we're a distant third [TS]

  or fourth in the phone space right we [TS]

  hardly we're the biggest ecosystem at [TS]

  Ninon they are I guess we got the PC [TS]

  platform that's putting our big [TS]

  ecosystem but this is a tall you know [TS]

  they may have the biggest ego system [TS]

  there but they're not the biggest [TS]

  ecosystem of users paying for downloaded [TS]

  apps or for devs creating them right [TS]

  they don't have anything in that space [TS]

  you know they sell their apps and [TS]

  shrink-wrap and licenses to corporations [TS]

  they're not they're not selling it to [TS]

  individual users who are downloading [TS]

  them and in real time they don't have [TS]

  millions of credit card bearing accounts [TS]

  and people who are trained to buy things [TS]

  digitally from them or anything like [TS]

  that uh-huh [TS]

  another phrase is you want to get in on [TS]

  the ground floor you know Microsoft [TS]

  wants a gold rush in telling you you [TS]

  really want to get on the ground floor [TS]

  be the first guy to make the great app [TS]

  for this [TS]

  another point they were hammering was we [TS]

  have a more very more varied devices [TS]

  than any other ecosystem because they [TS]

  had that big display in the stage where [TS]

  they showed Windows 8 running on a big [TS]

  giant PC and then a smaller PC and then [TS]

  a big tablet and then a smaller tablet [TS]

  like they were showing Windows 8 [TS]

  commends this whole huge range of [TS]

  devices you know we have the biggest [TS]

  ecosystem [TS]

  I don't know if I would have leaned on [TS]

  as much as they did because I can't [TS]

  imagine anybody was on an Android [TS]

  developer looking dead and going oh [TS]

  great more fragmentation no I don't will [TS]

  tell me how many devices you have right [TS]

  I'm not quite sure what that's a big [TS]

  selling point for developers like I'm [TS]

  gonna make my app work on that entire [TS]

  range of stuff that's on the screen [TS]

  alright so if you've seen the Metro [TS]

  applications just looking to screenshots [TS]

  before I'd watch your videos I'm like [TS]

  these things are ridiculously simplified [TS]

  no there's almost nothing on the screen [TS]

  no nope no controls no typical chrome [TS]

  stuff and like not even a lot of content [TS]

  right it's just just nothing right I was [TS]

  thinking how much more simplified they [TS]

  are even then Apple's latest revision of [TS]

  simplified desktop apps right so like [TS]

  the address book when they changed that [TS]

  stupid book thing right but but they [TS]

  simplified the applications as two panes [TS]

  instead of three or iCal where they hid [TS]

  the little stuff under pop-ups that used [TS]

  to be sticking out on calendars looks [TS]

  like a big month calendar that's it they [TS]

  were trying to simplify that application [TS]

  that's nothing compared to this kind of [TS]

  simple Gatien this is just remove [TS]

  everything so I don't know if they've [TS]

  just leapt ahead of where Apple was in [TS]

  terms of simplification because the [TS]

  trend is in a clear direction there so [TS]

  let's just jump way it like if Apple is [TS]

  slowly simplifying these applications [TS]

  where you know forget we're gonna leave [TS]

  them the dust we're gonna super [TS]

  simplified stuff ah it was making me [TS]

  think okay I'll go back to the [TS]

  aesthetics in a little bit but it isn't [TS]

  jimana to uh note that they seem to [TS]

  leapfrog things in simplification but [TS]

  that's a good thing or not we'll say ah [TS]

  so in the UI once you see start seeing [TS]

  the thing in use all right I remember [TS]

  what made me think of as the iPad [TS]

  introduction so the iPad came out of [TS]

  room stalking well Apple's gonna make a [TS]

  tablet what's it gonna be like we all [TS]

  held the iPhone we wanted to make a [TS]

  tablet and there was lots of fantasies [TS]

  about well there was the hardware on one [TS]

  side which I think everyone more or less [TS]

  knew what hardware was going to be in [TS]

  the week or so leading up the thing I [TS]

  liked I think it did about post about it [TS]

  on ours where I tried to predict what [TS]

  the hardware would be and it was exactly [TS]

  what everyone thought it would be but [TS]

  the software people didn't know but [TS]

  there was speculation that maybe would [TS]

  be Mac OS 10 [TS]

  well an iOS or what kind of iOS would it [TS]

  be just like that what anybody was [TS]

  talking about Mac os10 nothing but the [TS]

  people but the reason people were think [TS]

  about Mac os10 because they would be [TS]

  like okay well sure iOS or iPhone or [TS]

  less is great on the phone but this is a [TS]

  bigger screen so I don't don't you need [TS]

  to make right isn't it more like a [TS]

  computer yeah yeah you would make [TS]

  different choices in terms of how you [TS]

  use screen so it's like the decisions [TS]

  you made when the screen was tiny and [TS]

  fit in your hand or should be different [TS]

  than the ones you make when it's big so [TS]

  that's why people say well Mabel they [TS]

  just put the full fledge mac OS x you [TS]

  could fit it on that size screen Ino is [TS]

  no good for touch about like I'm you [TS]

  know I don't I don't think Mac OS 10 [TS]

  being on it had really any Koreans but [TS]

  what I was thinking about was what are [TS]

  they gonna do to iOS to adapt it to this [TS]

  bigger screen and I remember being very [TS]

  disappointed when they showed it on the [TS]

  stage and the home screen was the exact [TS]

  same grid of icons just more widely [TS]

  spaced right like if someone had shown [TS]

  you that as as a faked up spy photo of [TS]

  like here's a leaked photo of the iPad [TS]

  maybe like you just took a picture of [TS]

  the the iPhone springboard and spread [TS]

  the icons out there's no way Apple would [TS]

  do that they're gonna come up with a new [TS]

  interface that's appropriate for the [TS]

  tablet nope it's springboard with the [TS]

  icon spread out more or less you know [TS]

  and I was very disappointed that Apple [TS]

  didn't try to think about how they could [TS]

  be different on a tablet size screen [TS]

  right and when I saw that decision again [TS]

  again back to the past we did about [TS]

  Steve Jobs and how we have no idea what [TS]

  Steve Jobs actually does so we can just [TS]

  assign to him whatever decisions we [TS]

  think but I thought that decision [TS]

  smelled like Steve Jobs and in the [TS]

  imaginary Steve Jobs in my head I [TS]

  imagine him being shown seven or eight [TS]

  different alternatives for like what the [TS]

  interface on the iPad would be like and [TS]

  him looking at all them and going yeah [TS]

  why can't me just do a grid of icons [TS]

  like the phone people people like that [TS]

  and it works why can't we just do that I [TS]

  don't understand why you don't why don't [TS]

  we just make it a grid of oh god that's [TS]

  it it's just gonna be a grid of icons [TS]

  who show me that I can't you see him [TS]

  doing that isn't that his type about it [TS]

  like thinking this why you show me all [TS]

  these fancy wizzy interfaces but I don't [TS]

  know what the alternatives possibly [TS]

  could have been it's like but well [TS]

  didn't we already solve this the iPhone [TS]

  just use the creative icons people like [TS]

  that do it alright so we have a grid of [TS]

  icons uh Microsoft did not do that [TS]

  Microsoft well I don't know you could [TS]

  say Microsoft to me to scale the version [TS]

  of what it's got [TS]

  Windows Phone but certainly it's not [TS]

  just a grid of icons it's it's a it's a [TS]

  weird you call it a mosaic of tiles not [TS]

  emotion in practice it's very hot very [TS]

  different uh using the thing with the [TS]

  lock screens in Windows 8 [TS]

  did you see that in the videos I'm [TS]

  thinking about that I don't think I saw [TS]

  that one to describe it how does that [TS]

  work so instead of you know an apple you [TS]

  slide the little yeah thing to the side [TS]

  to get your thing well they have is a [TS]

  gesture based thing where you have like [TS]

  a big desktop pattern but a big a big [TS]

  photo that's the background of your [TS]

  thing so they're always putting pictures [TS]

  of the kids or something on there and [TS]

  then you make a series of gestures on [TS]

  the picture of your kid to launch it [TS]

  that's right yeah they're like poking [TS]

  the left thigh poking the right eye [TS]

  slide on the smiley face in your thing [TS]

  opens right um someone did a logo like [TS]

  here's our company logo and I swipe [TS]

  across the top and logo and then trace [TS]

  these little lines in the logo and I get [TS]

  it unlocked uh I don't think that's I [TS]

  mean the security of those things is all [TS]

  subject to people looking at your screen [TS]

  at the right angle and seeing where your [TS]

  finger grease trails lead and to figure [TS]

  out how to unlock your thing and I could [TS]

  imagine it being frustrated frustrating [TS]

  if they didn't make it like if they [TS]

  didn't add a lot of slop in there where [TS]

  you don't have to be so precise so you [TS]

  didn't exactly hit your daughter's pupil [TS]

  so we're not gonna open it and you [TS]

  sitting there stabbing your kid in the [TS]

  face repeatedly trying to get so it's [TS]

  got to be really permissive but that [TS]

  also makes this security not so great [TS]

  not that like you know your numeric code [TS]

  one two three four on your phone is that [TS]

  great either but it just struck me is [TS]

  kind of weird as another thing I can't [TS]

  imagine Apple doing this I just you just [TS]

  poke your kid in the face few times to [TS]

  unlock your thing is not great but I can [TS]

  also see Steve Jobs trying to pimp that [TS]

  as a great feature so I could go either [TS]

  way [TS]

  ah so the look of the thing after [TS]

  staring at Windows 8 for like an hour or [TS]

  two hours and then looking back at an [TS]

  iPad or an iPhone [TS]

  it makes iOS look old like the same way [TS]

  that when a new version of Mac OS 10 [TS]

  comes out like maybe you skip like three [TS]

  versions and go back to like ten point [TS]

  three or ten point two and look at you [TS]

  know my god how do we even look at this [TS]

  with the pinstripes and the drawers and [TS]

  all it's just it's just hideous right [TS]

  well if you look at Metro for a long [TS]

  time then you look back at iOS it seems [TS]

  like busy and has lots of stuff and lots [TS]

  of you know they call it Chrome but you [TS]

  know the these little [TS]

  ashle rendered buttons in the toolbars [TS]

  on your iPad apps it's not a lot of UI [TS]

  but like oh they're made to look like [TS]

  it's kind of like recessed underneath a [TS]

  little you know the toolbar is like a [TS]

  little metal shell and there's a little [TS]

  recessed button under it with a little [TS]

  shadow on and all that shading and it's [TS]

  like it looks a little clunky after [TS]

  you've seen just this sort of clean [TS]

  empty regions of color that they use in [TS]

  Windows 8 when the Metro interface in [TS]

  Windows 8 I I don't know if that means [TS]

  anything but it does it's an impression [TS]

  that struck me after going from one [TS]

  environment into the other like usually [TS]

  that happens to Apple doing it to itself [TS]

  now here's someone potentially doing it [TS]

  to Apple I'll have to see them in real [TS]

  life to know whether that's actually the [TS]

  case but on the screen it looks less [TS]

  like a computer let's put it that way it [TS]

  looks less like a computer then then iOS [TS]

  or the Mac does and that's been Apple's [TS]

  trend is to make everything they do look [TS]

  less like a computer but this looks [TS]

  really less like a computer I thought it [TS]

  was notable that they have they were [TS]

  making a big deal out of the fact that [TS]

  all their text base lines are aligned [TS]

  like you know like within a print [TS]

  publication when you line the base line [TS]

  so the and also in a grid system and web [TS]

  design type thing that's something that [TS]

  Microsoft would never even acknowledge [TS]

  the existence of they the pre Windows 8 [TS]

  Microsoft here they were in a public [TS]

  presentation making a big point of it [TS]

  and saying you don't have to worry we'll [TS]

  take care of this for you but it's [TS]

  really important because look how this [TS]

  lines up from screen to screen and you [TS]

  know the same reason you do it in print [TS]

  it's not a revolution to figure this out [TS]

  it's a revolution for Microsoft for them [TS]

  actually thinking about stuff like this [TS]

  for a change now as for the actual [TS]

  operation of this thing if you haven't [TS]

  watched the video in the show notes you [TS]

  should pause the thing now and go watch [TS]

  the video for 90 minutes and then sleep [TS]

  and come back and listen to so you can [TS]

  talk more watch it while you sleep [TS]

  yeah also I'm not going to describe [TS]

  everything that's in it song assume you [TS]

  already seen it but my impression of the [TS]

  Start screen which is that big mosaic of [TS]

  icons is it yeah it doesn't look like a [TS]

  computer UI what it looks like to me [TS]

  well before I say this let me say what [TS]

  does it look like to you [TS]

  let me just this ifs no one told you [TS]

  that this was Windows 8 or anything how [TS]

  you just saw a screenshot or a picture [TS]

  of you know that thing what does it look [TS]

  like to you what other existing things [TS]

  that you know of all right [TS]

  does it look like do you mean besides [TS]

  the windows phone or is that the answer [TS]

  now besides the windows one yeah other [TS]

  thing does it look like maybe I'm dumb [TS]

  what does it read what does it remind [TS]

  you of [TS]

  none an on computer thing an on computer [TS]

  thing I all I know is computers so maybe [TS]

  it's just me that when I when I look at [TS]

  it what it looks like to me is a page in [TS]

  a catalog like you know a nicely laid [TS]

  out sort of avant-garde page and a [TS]

  catalog for clothes like an [TS]

  advertisement like an IKEA catalog yeah [TS]

  not not so much like a bunch of ads but [TS]

  like here are wares for sale we have [TS]

  these lovely dishes and here these happy [TS]

  people were in clothing you can buy and [TS]

  some text alongside on a target [TS]

  advertisement yeah it looks like a page [TS]

  in a catalog and if you look at those [TS]

  screenshots like they always put the [TS]

  beautiful happy people laughing and the [TS]

  the beautifully photographed merchandise [TS]

  or the big close up of a flower or some [TS]

  other thing you know and I look at that [TS]

  and it's they're nice-looking pictures [TS]

  but what it strikes me is sort of [TS]

  content free content like the image [TS]

  looks nice but what information is it [TS]

  conveying to me or do I have to read the [TS]

  text right and the second thing I [TS]

  thought of is that's how it looks in [TS]

  their demos but when the user gets this [TS]

  thing is that screen going to look so [TS]

  hot when it's not filled with super high [TS]

  quality high-res photos of models right [TS]

  when it's when it's like an avatar [TS]

  that's originally 64 by 64 and it's been [TS]

  scaled up to 512 we're just like you [TS]

  know we're not all models you can have [TS]

  pictures of your friends and family who [TS]

  are not as attractive and they will not [TS]

  be nicely lit are these these pictures [TS]

  of like I could have done like dinner [TS]

  plates and other stuff like [TS]

  professionally photographed expensive [TS]

  things mmm where you're gonna have [TS]

  pictures of your stuff that's just ugly [TS]

  with the flash burn on it take picture [TS]

  of it on you I don't like that screen is [TS]

  going to look very different when it's [TS]

  when it's you and when it's not [TS]

  Microsoft's marketing department filling [TS]

  that ah and I still question even in [TS]

  that case whether those images convey [TS]

  any information the main thing that I [TS]

  think is a detriment to those things is [TS]

  that [TS]

  this sounds dumb but like so they kept [TS]

  making point of than not being icons [TS]

  that means they're not iconic it's it is [TS]

  harder to identify items because when [TS]

  you're looking for you know I'm looking [TS]

  for words with friends and welcome to [TS]

  the icon with the yellow square with the [TS]

  little letters on it like it looks [TS]

  different than the other icons yeah [TS]

  they're all the same shape which is a [TS]

  bummer on the iPhone but color scheme [TS]

  wise and position wise you know it it's [TS]

  easier for me to fly another position I [TS]

  think they're doing okay with because [TS]

  they do seem to have a set set of [TS]

  screens and you can drag them wherever [TS]

  you want then make them whatever size [TS]

  you want they don't move on their own so [TS]

  I think position they're okay but you're [TS]

  still glancing to look for that yellow [TS]

  thing to confirm where you're going [TS]

  especially if it's not an app that use [TS]

  all the time and unlike the main screen [TS]

  right and I guess their Microsoft [TS]

  argument for this so John is that it's [TS]

  it should be about the content don't [TS]

  think about the apps then you have to [TS]

  find the thing to tap you have to find [TS]

  the thing right you could quickly find [TS]

  your newsreader right right doesn't it [TS]

  and if the if the it like if you [TS]

  remember the position you might be okay [TS]

  but if you don't know what screen you're [TS]

  on I'll I'm screen number three so I [TS]

  know it's always in the lower right [TS]

  you'll look in the lower right to try to [TS]

  confirm that that's the newsreader and [TS]

  it will be some random picture of some [TS]

  article but that's another thing if [TS]

  you're gonna do the newsreader like [TS]

  here's our newsreader look at all these [TS]

  pictures the articles I read don't have [TS]

  beautiful high-res photos of nice things [TS]

  attached to every single article in the [TS]

  RSS feed I don't know what's going to [TS]

  show for typical RSS feeds that are text [TS]

  only or have ugly images but anyway like [TS]

  how will you know that's the RSS reader [TS]

  without reading the text it's not iconic [TS]

  you can't pick it out quickly now they [TS]

  really hammered on this point this is a [TS]

  quote from the thing icons are [TS]

  yesterday's ways of representing apps [TS]

  they were constantly slamming Apple iPad [TS]

  and iOS s I think they should gives us [TS]

  their competitor right you know go after [TS]

  the big dog right but they were never [TS]

  named them they would never say an iPad [TS]

  never say iOS never say iPhone they [TS]

  would just make Illusionist no but we [TS]

  all know who they're talking about so [TS]

  icons are yesterday's way of [TS]

  representing apps they're antiquities [TS]

  are all quotes they're antiquated [TS]

  they're not alive they're not [TS]

  interesting they're not helpful well [TS]

  yesterday's way of quoting apps is now [TS]

  just like sigh we're the future they're [TS]

  the past fine [TS]

  they're antiquated again they're old [TS]

  they're not alive that's true they're [TS]

  usually not moving around unless you [TS]

  have the little shaky icon mode on right [TS]

  they're not interesting [TS]

  probably they're not interesting like I [TS]

  mean it gets interns I hate my [TS]

  interesting they're not helpful [TS]

  I would draw the line there they're [TS]

  definitely helpful you know and they're [TS]

  easily identifiable and they don't [TS]

  change appearance without you knowing [TS]

  that they're changing appearance I'll [TS]

  give you update an app you know you're [TS]

  doing that on your own right so here's [TS]

  another quote the best tiles is what [TS]

  they call little squares the best tiles [TS]

  are live with activity and they draw you [TS]

  in I don't really want things in my [TS]

  interface to be alive with activity [TS]

  right it's movement draws the eye the [TS]

  old lizard brain avoid the saber-toothed [TS]

  tiger predator prey thing movement you [TS]

  can't help it movement draws your eye [TS]

  it affects even you can you know yeah [TS]

  it's just a physiological fact of life [TS]

  and I usually don't want my eye draw [TS]

  until I go that little tiles change you [TS]

  know this tiles changing oh that's how [TS]

  it I don't want my interface to be quote [TS]

  alive with activity now whether it's raw [TS]

  inner I bet I better draw you in in a [TS]

  store display store displays always have [TS]

  the you know it come over here look at [TS]

  this I mean Apple store demos are filled [TS]

  with motion they they show those little [TS]

  videos on the on the devices to draw you [TS]

  and as I come look at this iPad look at [TS]

  this movie people moving around and [TS]

  happy people smiling and you know but in [TS]

  day to day use I really don't want my [TS]

  interface to be alive with activity I [TS]

  should preface all this by saying this [TS]

  is just from looking at a video I have [TS]

  no idea how it's going to be in real [TS]

  life but looking at the video these are [TS]

  the thoughts that are occurring to me [TS]

  it's this kind of stream of [TS]

  consciousness type of thing but you know [TS]

  sorry but I don't think that I'm [TS]

  condemning this interface without ever [TS]

  having used it I'm just going on what I [TS]

  have I haven't used it I haven't gotten [TS]

  to use it I'm just trying to think about [TS]

  how this is going to work out in real [TS]

  life [TS]

  so one of the points the other points [TS]

  they made is that these these animations [TS]

  are constantly summoning people back [TS]

  into your app when something new happens [TS]

  and they give a bunch of examples of [TS]

  what this animation can do can remind [TS]

  you of something that's supposed to [TS]

  happen like like maybe supposed to be an [TS]

  appointment ever can draw you in to [TS]

  being interested in going to that [TS]

  application you can show you what's [TS]

  coming up next like scheduling [TS]

  application it can show you stuff that [TS]

  happened while you're away oh oh all [TS]

  sorts of things like that reasons why [TS]

  you'd want your child to be alive with [TS]

  activity and interesting now some of [TS]

  these have good points about an [TS]

  application is not running giving you [TS]

  information so you don't have to launch [TS]

  it you can just look at the tile like [TS]

  the weather app you have the one [TS]

  the weather app what if it shows the [TS]

  little sunny rainy thing and some [TS]

  temperatures and a three-day forecast [TS]

  right on the top you don't need to [TS]

  launch it and this is a big complaint [TS]

  with like the pre iOS 5 lock screen [TS]

  where you didn't have any good [TS]

  information there except for the time [TS]

  and maybe a notification or two um and [TS]

  the fact that all you can do is bad your [TS]

  icons show that hey to think new things [TS]

  happen but you don't know if this is a [TS]

  new email from someone important or it's [TS]

  just in your spam stuff like that so [TS]

  there are very useful innovations in the [TS]

  tile concept but this this push to be [TS]

  alive with activity and just the ones [TS]

  they showed are currently cycling [TS]

  through these seven pictures of models [TS]

  or pictures of [TS]

  or pictures of [TS]

  love things that's not useful that's [TS]

  that's distracting that's I guess it's [TS]

  good for a demo but I would not want [TS]

  that on my tablet I rather have it stack [TS]

  updating with interesting information [TS]

  not scrolling this across they're all [TS]

  anime like the pictures don't just [TS]

  change they like fade from one to the [TS]

  other scroll up words like blinds [TS]

  changing or whatever I bet you like the [TS]

  elk our center face a little bit better [TS]

  the water L cars interface L cars yeah [TS]

  like Star Trek I don't even know what [TS]

  that it's a you you're way beyond my [TS]

  Star Trek knowledge I am NOT I'm not a [TS]

  Star Trek nerd [TS]

  I know think I know the interface [TS]

  talking about them with the belt those [TS]

  sort of like solid lines with making [TS]

  curved rectangle little skinny fonts and [TS]

  yeah so another point that was made [TS]

  about these tiles is it they are single [TS]

  hit targets it's not like you can [TS]

  interact they're not like little apps [TS]

  like you know when you go to dashboard [TS]

  you have a widget and there's a bunch of [TS]

  controls on it and buttons and things [TS]

  and you can fiddle with them even though [TS]

  these tiles are filled with stuff and [TS]

  animating and have lots of text and [TS]

  other stuff there's just one hit target [TS]

  there you put your finger on and the [TS]

  whole thing is selected you can't [TS]

  interact with it in tile form so they're [TS]

  trying to keep things simple and every [TS]

  site you can look at it but it's not [TS]

  interactive you have to punch the app to [TS]

  do something with it now all of this [TS]

  sort of making iOS look old not looking [TS]

  like a computer stuff is most [TS]

  interesting because lurking underneath [TS]

  all that stuff is the Windows desktop [TS]

  occasionally they pull away the covers [TS]

  you're like oh my god what is that well [TS]

  and that was the question I actually had [TS]

  is it is it beneath it or is it a [TS]

  separate ad that gets launched it's [TS]

  semantics of you know is it always gonna [TS]

  it well I mean you define it the key [TS]

  point that I think is that it it's not [TS]

  always running like that environment is [TS]

  not always running right all right so [TS]

  when it is running is it is underneath [TS]

  on top of blob was just you know it's [TS]

  the same Windows kernel that's running [TS]

  everything it's just you know there are [TS]

  very few processes in this Windows [TS]

  environment is one of them so the point [TS]

  I make aesthetically is when they when [TS]

  they pull back that curtain and show [TS]

  show the hideous underbelly of Windows [TS]

  like they were showing all this nice [TS]

  stuff where everything is aligned all [TS]

  the text base lines are line [TS]

  and all the the graphics are beautiful [TS]

  and the typography is beautiful and as [TS]

  animations and everything is smooth and [TS]

  evenly spaced out and then they had to [TS]

  jump back for a second to show like [TS]

  here's where you're going to build your [TS]

  apps this is Visual Studio right and he [TS]

  shows Visual Studio is like an open [TS]

  dialog box and it like your back to the [TS]

  world where everything is poorly spaced [TS]

  all that the fonts are tiny and skinny [TS]

  and invisible and just the controls are [TS]

  ugly and this gradients everywhere just [TS]

  the spacing alone it just kills me if [TS]

  you look at a window screenshot the [TS]

  controls and the white space around them [TS]

  is just like arbitrary it's like someone [TS]

  puked a bunch of controls onto your [TS]

  screen certainly visual studios like [TS]

  that too you know that's it's such a [TS]

  contrast between that world where [TS]

  Microsoft was like mad make sure the [TS]

  controls are there make sure you can do [TS]

  this and I don't care if that graphic is [TS]

  from ten years ago and it's 16 colors [TS]

  and throw a grating on that yeah it [TS]

  looks nice that's all the people like [TS]

  gradients now maybe reflection you make [TS]

  it blurry and transparent anyway just [TS]

  just throw it all on there that world is [TS]

  so different from this Metro world yeah [TS]

  and it's such a contrast when you see [TS]

  them on the same device and I don't know [TS]

  I couldn't tell if the guy was disgusted [TS]

  to have to show Visual Studio since like [TS]

  he was like gung-ho for like I'm mr. [TS]

  Metro he was very enthusiastic about [TS]

  Metro and the way things should be done [TS]

  uh he seems like he would fit right in [TS]

  an apple yeah right yeah then he had to [TS]

  show that other thing that's underneath [TS]

  there ah now he was showing Visual [TS]

  Studio pieces like here's when you build [TS]

  a metro wrap check this out look this is [TS]

  what you start with you start with a [TS]

  template a template has a bunch of boxes [TS]

  laid out with you and all your text base [TS]

  lines already aligned this is where the [TS]

  title of your app goes and you know air [TS]

  your margins and so and so forth and [TS]

  obviously like I mean Xcode has [TS]

  templates to it templates are like to [TS]

  help you get started it's not as if [TS]

  you're locked into doing things [TS]

  according this template this is trying [TS]

  to give you a leg up but when I see that [TS]

  I have to think like oh is that is that [TS]

  going to be kind of constraining for [TS]

  people or like because is your choice to [TS]

  use one of these templates or just go [TS]

  all on your own and make a crappy thing [TS]

  so when I see templates I'm like does [TS]

  that mean is going to be a bunch of [TS]

  cookie cutter applications all using [TS]

  this template that all look exactly the [TS]

  same except for the content of the tiles [TS]

  you know text to your image here a bunch [TS]

  of tiles you swipe back and forth on is [TS]

  that going to be it that it made me [TS]

  think that whoever came up with all [TS]

  these templates and they sort of you [TS]

  don't have to do it we can do it for you [TS]

  understands [TS]

  Microsoft's historical weakness that [TS]

  their developers make crappy apps I'm [TS]

  not bad like you know they're not but [TS]

  from a perspective of an Apple person [TS]

  like that they're not they don't have [TS]

  the Apple attention to detail they don't [TS]

  if they don't have the Metro attention [TS]

  to detail basically like all these [TS]

  things this philosophy of Metro and in [TS]

  terms of design aesthetic and adherence [TS]

  to a particular system for the way [TS]

  things should look and behave is very [TS]

  very app alike and historically Windows [TS]

  applications have not been like that [TS]

  developers can do whatever the hell they [TS]

  want and they do and it seemed like all [TS]

  of the developers who really cared about [TS]

  every single pixel of their applications [TS]

  we're not on Windows they were on the [TS]

  Mac platform or you know some other [TS]

  platform where that for whatever reason [TS]

  draws those type of people to that so [TS]

  Metro even if Metro was like the best [TS]

  thing ever [TS]

  Microsoft faces the challenge of either [TS]

  taking their current stable developers [TS]

  and changing their value system the same [TS]

  way Microsoft seems to have changed its [TS]

  value system or at least within the [TS]

  Metro team Microsoft volume is very [TS]

  different from Metro than for the rest [TS]

  of Windows they have to either get their [TS]

  existing developers at this conference [TS]

  to change their value system to behave [TS]

  more like Apple developers sweating over [TS]

  every pixel like you know panic or icon [TS]

  factory or something or they have to [TS]

  recruit new developers from other [TS]

  platforms who already have that [TS]

  philosophy and attract them to theirs [TS]

  and I think Metro being so interesting [TS]

  and different and so designer II will [TS]

  help them attract the new people [TS]

  maybe the templates and all of this like [TS]

  no you don't have to do it for you whoo [TS]

  here here's a template here's just you [TS]

  just you just give us the image you're [TS]

  just a lot about interface and metros [TS]

  like that you give us an image you give [TS]

  us the text we will lay it out for you [TS]

  it's like we don't trust you to take [TS]

  this box and lay out your content in two [TS]

  hours for example interface builder on [TS]

  the Mac you can just drag out a button [TS]

  drag out it now those guidelines [TS]

  snapping to the aqwal grid guidelines [TS]

  but Apple is more or less trusting Mac [TS]

  developers to make pleasing dialog box [TS]

  which can be difficult very difficult to [TS]

  relay all those controls so they're you [TS]

  know easy to find easy to scan and [TS]

  visually appealing the guides help but [TS]

  you could even get more the guys you see [TS]

  all seen Mac apps that have like a [TS]

  poorly laid out dialogue boxing like oh [TS]

  geez who made this thing but by and [TS]

  large the best Mac apps are not like [TS]

  that [TS]

  and the best windows apps even the ones [TS]

  made by Microsoft are still like that [TS]

  pretty crappy so hmm I had a slide near [TS]

  the end which was Metro design [TS]

  principles and the number one Metro [TS]

  design principle which I thought was [TS]

  very revealing in but and goes back to [TS]

  we're just talking about the number one [TS]

  Metro design principle it's pride in [TS]

  craftsmanship hmm the fact that's number [TS]

  one I would have been insulted if I was [TS]

  in that audience like what are you [TS]

  trying to say you trying to say we [TS]

  making Windows app sooner is making crap [TS]

  we don't care what we make we have no [TS]

  pride no craftsmanship we just want to [TS]

  make the you know fill in the form bla [TS]

  bla bla hit the button and the thing [TS]

  works that was their number one can you [TS]

  imagine Apple going to WWC and say the [TS]

  number one principle Mac OS 10 what [TS]

  we're telling you developers when you [TS]

  make your apps have this in mind is have [TS]

  pride in what you do yeah I can craft [TS]

  JIT everyone in WEC thinks they're [TS]

  making the best app in the world they're [TS]

  gonna kill themselves to try to make it [TS]

  the best app normal that's a great point [TS]

  maybe less so with like iOS apps you [TS]

  know with big game companies sending [TS]

  some random team to make it but [TS]

  historically speaking pride and [TS]

  craftsmanship has not been the problem [TS]

  on the Mac platform sir is platform well [TS]

  more than iOS that is led in sort of [TS]

  since it's been the gold rush there is a [TS]

  lack of pride of gratitude from a crap [TS]

  absent in the iOS store like people [TS]

  churning out 50 applications bogus fraud [TS]

  applications or just you just want to [TS]

  have something on iOS that is definitely [TS]

  lowered the pride in craftsmanship but [TS]

  those aren't like those are outsiders [TS]

  you know from the respect that if [TS]

  someone who's been this in this [TS]

  community for a long time is like the [TS]

  Mac developers and the next developer is [TS]

  definitely a pride in craftsmanship in [TS]

  iOS just because it's been so successful [TS]

  as as attracted the other people but [TS]

  Microsoft is talking to it's humungous [TS]

  installed base of Windows developers [TS]

  saying have pride in craftsmanship and [TS]

  the other ones were be fast and fluid do [TS]

  more with less [TS]

  and a bunch of other stuff like that but [TS]

  the pride and craftsmanship really got [TS]

  me you know who's got a lot of pride and [TS]

  craftsmanship for real I bet your family [TS]

  Shopify com the Internet's the most [TS]

  elegant customizable and affordable [TS]

  hosted ecommerce platform you can take [TS]

  advantage of Shopify thriving theme and [TS]

  application community which is all about [TS]

  crafts on a ship lets you add depth and [TS]

  beauty to your site you can customize [TS]

  your own storefront using HTML and CSS [TS]

  JavaScript if you like but no Perl [TS]

  and for a limited time usually they they [TS]

  have this thing where it's like one [TS]

  month for free and I said listen that [TS]

  one month that's not special and said [TS]

  who cares about one month I want three [TS]

  months and I want all of my listeners to [TS]

  get three months and they said there's [TS]

  no way we can do three months can't do [TS]

  it we could do we do 40 days [TS]

  I said that's forget it you know get out [TS]

  of here I don't care it we're done we're [TS]

  done here and I got up from the table I [TS]

  walked out and they ran after they said [TS]

  fine fine we will do three months free [TS]

  for your listeners they have to use the [TS]

  special code though I said fine what's [TS]

  the code and they said five by five and [TS]

  I looked at them and I stuck out my ant [TS]

  I said let's make it let's make this [TS]

  reality right now and they said you got [TS]

  it Shopify com code is five by five [TS]

  three months free you should add it [TS]

  apart but they had to go to their [TS]

  manager I got that's my man I could ask [TS]

  my and they go back no that's not how [TS]

  went down I'm not gonna lie all right [TS]

  yeah okay your story all right that's so [TS]

  much more than Windows 8 stuff let me [TS]

  ask you this let me let me cut to the [TS]

  chase here I'm not gonna skip to stop [TS]

  I'm gonna say over another show you know [TS]

  no god no that's please please do all [TS]

  right good [TS]

  what's the verdict here on this do do [TS]

  you do you think Windows 8 Metro is [TS]

  going to make any Mac users say well I I [TS]

  guess I can finally go back to Windows [TS]

  now I mean what how does this affect [TS]

  Windows in general not from mainly it [TS]

  sounds like what you've been talking [TS]

  about as a developer standpoint because [TS]

  obviously that's that's what you and [TS]

  certainly I and probably our audience [TS]

  are interested in but is this going to [TS]

  revitalize because look look at what Mac [TS]

  os10 did maybe not 10 dot oh but [TS]

  certainly subsequent versions and maybe [TS]

  10 dotto to look at what Mac OS 10 did [TS]

  for Apple is this Metro going to do that [TS]

  for Windows for the PC platform do you [TS]

  think because think about this Metro [TS]

  isn't just competing with Mac OS 10 its [TS]

  competing with older versions of Windows [TS]

  and it's also competing with things like [TS]

  Linux and [TS]

  everything else that's out there what [TS]

  what is this going to do is is this what [TS]

  Microsoft has been waiting for and I [TS]

  will add a rider question on to that [TS]

  question which is why not just call it [TS]

  Metro when there are no more windows as [TS]

  asked by John Gruber go alright so the [TS]

  impression I get from the Apple thing in [TS]

  the Mac os10 [TS]

  is not so much that Mac OS 10 [TS]

  revitalized or broad new people to the [TS]

  Mac platform it's a little bit different [TS]

  in that what what Matt goes tempered did [TS]

  first of all was it brought the next [TS]

  people to the Mac platform there was [TS]

  next people there was Mac people and the [TS]

  Mac people were small in the next people [TS]

  were vanishingly small and it brought [TS]

  those two groups together but the the [TS]

  makeup of those two groups was very [TS]

  similar those are the people who had [TS]

  obsessive pride and craftsmanship the [TS]

  Mac people were very already the the [TS]

  next people were kind of technical but [TS]

  the reason they were using these really [TS]

  low market share obscure platforms is [TS]

  because the particular technical and [TS]

  artistic attributes of them were [TS]

  attractive enough that they were willing [TS]

  to forego you know developing for [TS]

  Windows developing for the big platform [TS]

  where they could make way more money and [TS]

  you know so that was the content of the [TS]

  Mac and next communities before the [TS]

  advent of Mac OS 10 and those people [TS]

  were trying to make good apps they were [TS]

  trying to make good next apps and the [TS]

  Mac people were trying to make good Mac [TS]

  apps and they they were but it was kind [TS]

  of like toiling in obscurity right so [TS]

  when Mac os10 came along and Apple found [TS]

  a way to start selling its hardware to [TS]

  more people and you know to get out to [TS]

  reverse the PR death spiral that the [TS]

  company was in and the financial death [TS]

  spiral which triggered the PR does [TS]

  Fowler to make it so that you know at [TS]

  Apple they still in business changing [TS]

  that to be hey Apple have you seen this [TS]

  new Apple Computer the iMac it's blue [TS]

  you know they that reversal so getting [TS]

  people in the door to buy Macs and [TS]

  trying to you know make the company [TS]

  viable make it successful and grow the [TS]

  platform at the same time as combining [TS]

  the tiny little pool of next people and [TS]

  the slightly less tiny pool of Mac [TS]

  developers suddenly those guys had a [TS]

  bigger audience and lo and behold you [TS]

  know like when the users came along [TS]

  there [TS]

  say look at all these great apps for [TS]

  this for this platform that I'd never [TS]

  heard of before on this this is a really [TS]

  nice-looking app I like this like this [TS]

  FTP app this transmit thing this is much [TS]

  nicer than whenever I was using on [TS]

  Windows how did this thing get here well [TS]

  those guys were already there they were [TS]

  making that app before you even heard of [TS]

  the iMac before the iMac even existed [TS]

  before you idiot when you thought apples [TS]

  out of business they were making apps [TS]

  you know uh so it kind of gave the team [TS]

  that the Apple Mac next team and [TS]

  eventually the iOS did the same thing [TS]

  gave that team someplace to to sell its [TS]

  wares but we already have the team like [TS]

  same thing when iOS came along it was [TS]

  like alright anybody who was really into [TS]

  mac toolbox and couldn't make the [TS]

  transition to cocoa has pretty much [TS]

  faded out by now so it's just a bunch of [TS]

  cocoa guys and we're gonna do iOS which [TS]

  is very cocoa like and UI kid is very [TS]

  much like app kit but a little bit [TS]

  better and we shaved off the edges and [TS]

  it's made by the same guys who learn the [TS]

  lessons of app kit and you guys are [TS]

  familiar with that stuff you know the [TS]

  tools you know the language here's this [TS]

  mobile platform go same team even bigger [TS]

  audience and and people love now we got [TS]

  this other developer base of like once [TS]

  the audience gets to a certain size then [TS]

  the people making the crap app start [TS]

  coming out you know the game cheap code [TS]

  keyword spamming piece of crap crashy [TS]

  thing you know the hundred thousand apps [TS]

  in the App Store 100 million or having [TS]

  me I don't even know how many there are [TS]

  now so much of those are crap just [TS]

  because so much of everything is crap [TS]

  but the good ones are really good now [TS]

  Microsoft one team it's got a team two [TS]

  it's got a humongous team it's got the [TS]

  guys who make Windows software that's [TS]

  their team right that's I don't know if [TS]

  that team is ready to make apps to make [TS]

  Metro apps the quality that Microsoft [TS]

  wants them to because if they were [TS]

  they'd be making much better Windows [TS]

  apps in there now I'm sure there are [TS]

  great Windows apps out there too but [TS]

  like even the very best of the best [TS]

  Windows apps maybe they're held back by [TS]

  the toolkit maybe it's just that Windows [TS]

  controls and the tools that they're [TS]

  given it's just like they can't change [TS]

  the system phone system pause a little [TS]

  bit too small and the official spacing [TS]

  is a little bit tight and where the [TS]

  buttons are supposed to go and the per [TS]

  the prevalence of Wizards I don't know [TS]

  what's making Windows apps crappy from [TS]

  the perspective of a Mac user and more [TS]

  confusing and less pleasing from the [TS]

  respect of a regular consumer then you [TS]

  know an iPad app or an iOS app or [TS]

  anything like that [TS]

  maybe maybe you give that team this [TS]

  toolkit maybe they do make great apps I [TS]

  don't know but the Mac guys had a crappy [TS]

  toolkit when they were doing classic Mac [TS]

  OS like that thing it was way past its [TS]

  sell-by date they were still making [TS]

  great apps with those horrible tools and [TS]

  you know Metro work just like a breath [TS]

  of fresh air for them using like right [TS]

  yeah yeah MPW Macintosh programmers [TS]

  workshop and mr. C and like you know [TS]

  they were still able to make great apps [TS]

  that we all loved even given that [TS]

  horrible environment so I don't know if [TS]

  the team Microsoft's got is up to the [TS]

  challenge of making the apps that they [TS]

  want so that leaves you know sort of [TS]

  fine so pull somebody else pull some [TS]

  other team now Apple benefit greatly by [TS]

  getting the next team both internally [TS]

  the people who work for next became [TS]

  Apple people who ran the show basically [TS]

  from then on technically and then the [TS]

  next developers you know you got to [TS]

  develop applications and became the [TS]

  great Mac and the great iOS developers [TS]

  Microsoft didn't acquire anybody who has [TS]

  a little stable of great developers as [TS]

  far as I know maybe like maybe the [TS]

  danger guys I think that whole thing [TS]

  went bad with holes Kim I don't know [TS]

  those guys are still there but then out [TS]

  in the third-party world like had they [TS]

  acquired any other community of [TS]

  developers I don't think so so they have [TS]

  to they have to poach they have to I [TS]

  mean they have to pull Mac developers [TS]

  you know pull iOS developers it would be [TS]

  great if they could do that ah do they [TS]

  want a plan droid developers maybe maybe [TS]

  not [TS]

  maybe what they're looking for is a [TS]

  beautiful minimal interface according to [TS]

  a strict set of standards that are very [TS]

  limited maybe they don't maybe they [TS]

  don't want those guys so that's that [TS]

  that I think is their met their first [TS]

  the second challenge second challenge is [TS]

  how the hell we going to get people to [TS]

  make the apps that we want because [TS]

  they're pushing hard they know what they [TS]

  want they know the kayaks they want and [TS]

  they're they're really hoping that their [TS]

  community developers all those guys in [TS]

  the audience they will do it for them [TS]

  and if they can't do that they going to [TS]

  start poaching at their first challenge [TS]

  number one or maybe number zero is they [TS]

  have to execute in ship this is you know [TS]

  I don't know what the schedule thing is [TS]

  like a year from now these are they [TS]

  gonna be ready they got the execute [TS]

  execute execute and ship ship and [TS]

  execute and update don't do what they [TS]

  did with Windows Phone which was ship [TS]

  and then like [TS]

  promise you're gonna have an updated as [TS]

  copy-and-paste and like do nothing for [TS]

  months and months and months they have [TS]

  to get it done get it bug free and ship [TS]

  it and then ship the next version then [TS]

  ship the next version ship the next [TS]

  review they have to do you know that's [TS]

  do the Apple thing they have to do that [TS]

  execute so assuming the execute then [TS]

  their second challenge like I said is to [TS]

  get developers get people to write the [TS]

  great apps can they poach from the B [TS]

  world of iOS and Mac developers I think [TS]

  they have a legitimate shot I think a [TS]

  Mac developer or an iOS developer will [TS]

  be more inclined to say you know what [TS]

  I'm going to try another version of this [TS]

  app and actually I'm going to make it a [TS]

  Windows 8 version I have been resisting [TS]

  import to Android but I'm going to try [TS]

  I'm going to try that like when I [TS]

  thought of this one I should with some [TS]

  slide of saying we didn't give them [TS]

  getting contracts we will do the next [TS]

  row but about the contracts thing some [TS]

  other type of things you can imagine [TS]

  doing in Windows 8 huh you're saying [TS]

  what kind of applications might use the [TS]

  feature XY and Z and one of the ones [TS]

  that listed was read it later services [TS]

  and I thought of Marco who is thus far [TS]

  not wanted to do an Android version of [TS]

  that app maybe he'd be more inclined to [TS]

  do some sort of Windows 8 integration [TS]

  for Instapaper than he would for Android [TS]

  just because the tools are better and [TS]

  the platform owner is more friendly and [TS]

  it's not it's like kind of desktop you [TS]

  know it's kind of this weird hybrid 2 [TS]

  interface you're not doing it on the [TS]

  phone you're doing in a larger thing and [TS]

  like basically also you know it's it's [TS]

  more interesting than Android because [TS]

  it's not just a pale imitation of what [TS]

  Apple's doing and potentially [TS]

  potentially there's a big base out there [TS]

  bigger than entry view if you if [TS]

  Microsoft can convert its entire desktop [TS]

  PC base to running Windows 8 suddenly [TS]

  this work that you're done can run on [TS]

  every PC in the world basically except [TS]

  for Mac's right and by the way also [TS]

  tablets stuff like that so I think they [TS]

  have a legitimate shot of pulling some [TS]

  people over now what those people's [TS]

  experience is like like oh so we decided [TS]

  to make Windows 8 port and it was a [TS]

  horrible experience because the tools [TS]

  are bad or the whole thing was buggy [TS]

  that's not good or we decide to make a [TS]

  Windows 8 port but it was pointless [TS]

  because Microsoft could not sell like [TS]

  they couldn't get people upgrade from [TS]

  Windows 7 they couldn't get people off [TS]

  xp they couldn't sell on all these [TS]

  device [TS]

  running away whatever the problem was [TS]

  like they once they pull those two or [TS]

  three or four guys over maybe that's [TS]

  throw a little money there right [TS]

  whatever that's to do they have to make [TS]

  that experience beneficial like we did [TS]

  an Android port it was a big hassle we [TS]

  got nothing we did a Windows 8 port and [TS]

  it was a much nicer experience and we've [TS]

  seen some financial reward from it or [TS]

  was a fun experience or I like the end [TS]

  result I think it's cooler I've got a [TS]

  metro tablet and it's it's fun for me to [TS]

  use and I like it I never launched the [TS]

  Windows desktop part of it you know so I [TS]

  forget at this point I forgotten my [TS]

  original question was but I hope I've [TS]

  answered it well I think he did I think [TS]

  he more than did um Oh interesting to [TS]

  see where they go with this I mean it's [TS]

  it's a year away though right nine [TS]

  months or is it a year yeah that's [TS]

  that's just like says the Microsoft way [TS]

  they're showing up early I think I think [TS]

  they had to because otherwise you know [TS]

  everyone had written Microsoft off [TS]

  already and this gave them new life uh [TS]

  hopefully we don't forget about them a [TS]

  year and hopefully they'll keep the yet [TS]

  the flow of PR going to say yeah no [TS]

  we're really doing this it's actually [TS]

  gonna ship having done it have they done [TS]

  that before come out with something [TS]

  announced it and then sort of forgotten [TS]

  about it not ship that they've done that [TS]

  with some no I'm lighting sorry I mean [TS]

  the public forgetting about it because [TS]

  they're not in our face reminding us [TS]

  that they're gonna do this thing now [TS]

  sometimes margasoft is also done in our [TS]

  face yeah the slates stuff like that [TS]

  like they shop about it because they [TS]

  realize it was going nowhere but this is [TS]

  this is too Jake this is me this is when [TS]

  Windows 8 like Windows 7 they were kind [TS]

  of in our face about like here's the new [TS]

  windows like in Windows 8 is this is way [TS]

  bigger than Windows 7 so I think they [TS]

  will keep reminding us they're going to [TS]

  do it and then they had to say something [TS]

  early because if they didn't say either [TS]

  way till the end of this year to do what [TS]

  they just did now we'd be like God too [TS]

  little too late [TS]

  yeah I mean it may already be too late [TS]

  in terms of the tablet market we'll see [TS]

  but this Microsoft style sure show it [TS]

  early and you know do what you got to do [TS]

  to get people excited about it and you [TS]

  have way more Windows 8 stuff so people [TS]

  who do not want to hear more about [TS]

  Windows 8 the next show also probably [TS]

  you know the Reno topic of the show was [TS]

  going to be what ails Microsoft maybe [TS]

  I'll get to that at the end of the [TS]

  Windows eight stuff so this is going to [TS]

  be a little run of Microsoft stuff I [TS]

  know people didn't like it when I did [TS]

  two or three shows in a row about [TS]

  programming this is going to be two or [TS]

  three shows in a row talking about [TS]

  Microsoft because this is something I [TS]

  can't wait for that the most interesting [TS]

  thing happening in this this space [TS]

  right now I think that's it though and [TS]

  so for today I think I'll wrap it up [TS]

  yeah well you can follow John on Twitter [TS]

  just as simple it's simple to do this [TS]

  it's just siracusa si RAC USA there's no [TS]

  Z in that I am Dan Benjamin on Twitter [TS]

  can read a lot of John's writing over it [TS]

  Ars Technica your best stuff is there [TS]

  really I think my only stuff practically [TS]

  well let's up a Macworld to a couple of [TS]

  our obscure things don't downplay that [TS]

  hmm sometimes John it can be heard on [TS]

  other podcasts such as the incomparable [TS]

  or incomparable as you say which is a [TS]

  great show a lot of fun you can be heard [TS]

  over there with Jason Snell and a whole [TS]

  bunch of other excellent Mac nerds [TS]

  that's about it sir q saw on Twitter [TS]

  nosey and and that's it if you like this [TS]

  show please consider going to iTunes [TS]

  signing in and rating it that is a [TS]

  really the best way to keep it a kick in [TS]

  very much the same way that we are [TS]

  hoping that Microsoft will do something [TS]

  great here and and they are hoping we [TS]

  pay attention by keeping it in on the [TS]

  radar you can go to iTunes and keep this [TS]

  show on the radar by your rating it it's [TS]

  great that you rated it before thank you [TS]

  if you haven't rated it shame on you and [TS]

  please go down and write it also what I [TS]

  would suggest is so I obsessively read [TS]

  the reviews if you don't want a writer [TS]

  review whatever but there's these little [TS]

  buttons next to every review that says [TS]

  there was this review helpful yes no and [TS]

  there's kind of a self-fulfilling [TS]

  prophecy effect where after two or three [TS]

  people like when there was like three [TS]

  reviews someone came in and clicked on [TS]

  they read the three reviews and one of [TS]

  them was like the review they liked the [TS]

  best [TS]

  so they clicked this was helpful yeah [TS]

  it'd be helpful yes that was bad [TS]

  phrasing what really is do you agree [TS]

  with this review yes no so if it's a if [TS]

  it's a bad review and you think the show [TS]

  is bad you say you agree in vice-versa [TS]

  so the first few reviews up there a lot [TS]

  of people not a lot of people like 10 or [TS]

  15 people clicked on the you know yes [TS]

  this review was helpful that has been [TS]

  the number one review but it's sorted by [TS]

  which is most helpful [TS]

  that's been the number one review since [TS]

  the inception of the show and it only [TS]

  had like 10 or 15 clicks so there are I [TS]

  don't know how many reviews maybe 100 [TS]

  200 something like that but the number [TS]

  one review has ten of the this has been [TS]

  most helpful link so if we just want to [TS]

  go through the routine Osborne who else [TS]

  is motivated to read the views except [TS]

  for the people on the show but it would [TS]

  be nice I thought I thought to be more [TS]

  churn in terms of what the top reviewers [TS]

  of you if you go through the reviews and [TS]

  find one that you either agree with you [TS]

  actually think is helpful or whatever [TS]

  however you want interpret that click [TS]

  the yes or no link to either push [TS]

  reviews up or down in the list of [TS]

  reviews because I'm on the web interface [TS]

  and iTunes they just show you like the [TS]

  top two or three reviews and those never [TS]

  change despite the fact that if the tail [TS]

  end of those reviews if you sort by most [TS]

  recent and go to the last page or go to [TS]

  the first page you'll see people are [TS]

  writing reviews all the time and I read [TS]

  every single one of those so thank you [TS]

  for everybody who is writing reviews [TS]

  because I do read them but no one else [TS]

  is going to see them because at twenty [TS]

  pages back and no one ever goes 20 pages [TS]

  back and hits on a little yes this is [TS]

  helpful thing to make it bubble up to [TS]

  the top so if you're an obsessive fan of [TS]

  the show and looking for something to do [TS]

  when you like clicking cover me through [TS]

  some of the reviews and click on the [TS]

  ones that you think are well-written [TS]

  agree with what you agree with or if you [TS]

  want to write your own review get your [TS]

  friends to all click on that yes this [TS]

  was helpful you only need like 10 or 20 [TS]

  things to suddenly pop up to be the [TS]

  number one review in the list of reviews [TS]

  I think my mom has like 17 yes this was [TS]

  helpful or something so uh give that a [TS]

  try I like that alright go check out our [TS]

  to sponsors campaign monitor hum slash [TS]

  templates and Shopify comm using the [TS]

  code 5x5 we'll be back next week and we [TS]

  will announce will we announce when [TS]

  we're doing the Goodfellas thing will we [TS]

  announce ahead of time so people can [TS]

  watch it if they haven't or rewatch it [TS]

  if they haven't seen in a while they [TS]

  just say we should have been smart [TS]

  because they just had it on was it AME [TS]

  they just had it on but so you can't [TS]

  watch that you get a watch I got a DVD [TS]

  you can't watch well you can't watch [TS]

  commercials you can't watch with the [TS]

  editing I've got an HD version of it too [TS]

  and I have the DVD so yeah we're good to [TS]

  go and yeah we will announce it even if [TS]

  we've already recorded it you'll just [TS]

  hold it back and you know so we can [TS]

  announce it and then put it out well and [TS]

  I guess the difference is since it's not [TS]

  going to be part of this show people can [TS]

  know that oh it's a special thing it has [TS]

  a thing and then they they go they and [TS]

  we can say in the beginning if you [TS]

  haven't watched [TS]

  it go watch it and you said for a lot of [TS]

  people will listen to this and say no [TS]

  Dan don't do a review don't review it [TS]

  later do a mystery science 3000 thing [TS]

  and talk tell nobody will say that [TS]

  that's what you know they said that in [TS]

  the chat room already today [TS]

  joe said that I didn't see it was in [TS]

  there in the chat room well we know that [TS]

  you want that but I don't I do want that [TS]

  and I think it would be fine to do that [TS]

  and so and everybody who would like to [TS]

  do that no not fair [TS]

  anyone would not like that I think [TS]

  everybody who wants it if you don't want [TS]

  it don't bother to write in but if you [TS]

  do want it right in and then a hundred [TS]

  but the silent majority doesn't want [TS]

  that mysteri CagA the reason mst3k style [TS]

  doesn't work for people who are asking [TS]

  for it is that I think we've discussed [TS]

  this before as something happens on the [TS]

  screen that you want to discuss if your [TS]

  explanation is long-winded like mine [TS]

  always are and rambling by the time [TS]

  you're done talking about the thing you [TS]

  want to talk about you miss six others [TS]

  and here's what you do [TS]

  you you tell agree I agree and my answer [TS]

  is a subpar answer or as you would say a [TS]

  piss-poor answer but here's what you do [TS]

  you say okay hit pause everybody hit [TS]

  pause and they have to hit pause but say [TS]

  I'm a c3 chemistry K is prepared comedic [TS]

  statements time to make one look at [TS]

  rehearse it we could rehearse it we're [TS]

  gonna watch a movie just like the bond [TS]

  stop sorry like the bond it's what [TS]

  you've done before it's what we're gonna [TS]

  do this all right you win yes are we [TS]

  really like you too [TS]

  yes did you do a little fist pump errs [TS]

  under anything and that my fingers it [TS]

  excellent if you really want to do an [TS]

  mst3k thing like Don the incomparable [TS]

  they tried to do in mst3k thing actually [TS]

  did a RiffTrax thing yeah and it was [TS]

  funny and I was thinking of [TS]

  participating but that's hard my just [TS]

  tried I tried to like write jokes time [TS]

  today was only a twenty minute movie [TS]

  video thing that is hard I could come up [TS]

  with nothing and the people who did it [TS]

  did a great job but I that is not my [TS]

  skill set all right so we won't do that [TS]

  we'll just review it will give people a [TS]

  heads up when it's coming we'll record [TS]

  it get it record it soon movies not [TS]

  going anywhere but yeah right so you [TS]

  know we get it there's a vibe going on [TS]

  now I close man nights and weekends [TS]

  I do weekends how you say that but we [TS]

  never do nights and weekends I do all my [TS]

  incomparable at 11:00 p.m. [TS]

  are you a persuasive guy urges [TS]

  kowtow to things odd neither because if [TS]

  you can persuade my wife to let me cut [TS]

  out about I need about 3/4 never ask [TS]

  someone else to persuade your wife of [TS]

  anything blue three to four hours you [TS]

  should go to bed lucky you got baby I [TS]

  don't know how you doing officer I have [TS]

  no I I don't I have no advice for you [TS]

  and now here's what here's what's gonna [TS]

  have to happen I need about three or [TS]

  four hours because I got to watch the [TS]

  movie at least once maybe twice and then [TS]

  we gotta record about it I know right [TS]

  yes I understand a lot of what amount I [TS]

  can't imagine doing it if I had a [TS]

  newborn hear it armed and yet and yet [TS]

  Here I am doing shows and I have to I [TS]

  have to do this one I'm very excited [TS]

  about this one especially seeing it [TS]

  again rekindled my interest has been a [TS]

  long time since I watched it we're gonna [TS]

  do this alright [TS]

  thanks for tuning in everybody we'll be [TS]

  back next week have a good one job in [TS]

  Tim [TS]