28: Trust, But Verify


  [Music] [TS]

  you are listening to hypercritical [TS]

  weekly talkshow ruminating on exactly [TS]

  what is wrong in the world of Apple and [TS]

  related technologies and businesses [TS]

  nothing is so perfect cannot be [TS]

  complained about by my co-host John [TS]

  siracusa i'm dan benjamin this is [TS]

  episode number 28 we'd like to say a [TS]

  very quick thank you to one of our [TS]

  sponsors campaign monitor they've just [TS]

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  bandwidth for July 2011 has been [TS]

  provided by - green technologies Virtual [TS]

  Private servers submerged in oil check [TS]

  them out at - green tech calm so John [TS]

  this is a big week do you know why this [TS]

  is a big week why is this a big week and [TS]

  this is a big week because this is the [TS]

  week after your Lian review came out and [TS]

  a week after we did the week after we [TS]

  did the show alright [TS]

  it is this exciting stuff [TS]

  sure and I have some good news for you [TS]

  in fact I think I think this is you've [TS]

  set a record here whether you know it or [TS]

  not a big record got set more downloads [TS]

  in one week of our last show than any [TS]

  show in the history of this network 5x5 [TS]

  power of lion Dan over 1 million [TS]

  downloads of your show did you see the [TS]

  email that I sent you I did I saw it [TS]

  congratulations are in order to you sir [TS]

  congratulations to you biggest week ever [TS]

  biggest week of your life I don't know [TS]

  about that but yeah sure it's a big week [TS]

  come on did you laugh was that human a [TS]

  human emotion coming through yeah it's [TS]

  exciting you've updated your program see [TS]

  how much of it is sustained you know [TS]

  this is kind of a lumpy type of [TS]

  phenomenon where once every two years [TS]

  big review comes out lots of activity in [TS]

  traffic and then it settles down so [TS]

  we'll see I don't know I think we [TS]

  you may have just earned yourself a [TS]

  handful of new listeners in the process [TS]

  I hope so I hope so too [TS]

  I think so I know so I always wonder [TS]

  what my like my glass ceiling is on [TS]

  readers or listeners because the things [TS]

  I talk about and the way I talk about [TS]

  them probably have a pretty narrow [TS]

  appeal so C is a with you I've you said [TS]

  like how many people in the entire world [TS]

  who are not related to me would be [TS]

  interested in listening to me talk about [TS]

  this stuff apparently quite a few well [TS]

  and what percentage of that that we [TS]

  already have the same thing with Apple [TS]

  like you always wondering uh what could [TS]

  Mac marketshare possibly be like what is [TS]

  the what is the ceiling on that could it [TS]

  ever be 90 percent 50 25 what is the [TS]

  point after which Apple's philosophy of [TS]

  making not the cheapest possible [TS]

  computer that you can make when does [TS]

  that become a limiting factor for them [TS]

  you know what I mean same thing with me [TS]

  so I think there's plenty of room for [TS]

  both the Mac and me to grow well I think [TS]

  I certainly think so I don't I don't [TS]

  think you're anywhere near your glass [TS]

  ceiling I always think about the people [TS]

  who subscribe to Gruber's podcast and [TS]

  read his thing and follow him on Twitter [TS]

  and I wonder what percentage like if [TS]

  someone follows John Gruber on Twitter I [TS]

  say why isn't that person following me [TS]

  because we talk about the same type of [TS]

  things but he talked about them on his [TS]

  website and I talked about them on [TS]

  Twitter if you follow him on Twitter [TS]

  you're hearing about baseball and you [TS]

  know all sorts of other topics and he [TS]

  doesn't even tweet that much maybe [TS]

  that's why he has so many followers but [TS]

  if you read his website he talks about [TS]

  Apple stuff all the time if you follow [TS]

  me on Twitter I talk about Apple stuff [TS]

  all the time so I wonder what percentage [TS]

  of his followers like that's probably [TS]

  like my glass ceiling I could never [TS]

  possibly have more than he has but of [TS]

  the people who follow him and listen to [TS]

  him it seems like there should be some [TS]

  significant overlap between those people [TS]

  and the people will be interested in [TS]

  what I had to say so I have a long way [TS]

  to go I would I think that makes sense [TS]

  but in a way I mean what you do and what [TS]

  he does I see him is very very different [TS]

  very different things I mean he his [TS]

  whole like for him Twitter is [TS]

  at best supplementary but for you that's [TS]

  sort of the primary way that you [TS]

  communicate yeah it's true I mean it's [TS]

  like you're second at my second email I [TS]

  think that's like a a demerit though [TS]

  because people don't like it when you [TS]

  fill their Twitter feed with stuff it's [TS]

  much easier to follow somebody who [TS]

  tweets every couple of days one thing [TS]

  you know you don't have the urge to [TS]

  unfollow that person if they're not [TS]

  filling your stream with a bunch of crap [TS]

  whereas if you follow me every day [TS]

  that's going to be wanted your tweets [TS]

  probably and if you don't like those [TS]

  wanted your tweets you like why am i [TS]

  following this guy am i interested in a [TS]

  stuff and yon fall you're saying you're [TS]

  saying with you you know what you're [TS]

  getting yet you're going to get kind of [TS]

  occasionally geeky Apple related crap [TS]

  yeah but it's I think it's similar to [TS]

  the stuff that the Gruber posts just [TS]

  without the bases yeah at least in his [TS]

  linked list he'll a lot of the stories [TS]

  that he has on his side I will also [TS]

  tweet about and vice versa you know the [TS]

  technology stories of the day related to [TS]

  Apple so it's just a different medium to [TS]

  get that information when you at least [TS]

  for this week regardless of what your [TS]

  glass ceiling is this week you are [TS]

  number one revel in it yeah all those [TS]

  people who subscribe should also leave a [TS]

  review because my review count is still [TS]

  way lower than the talk show as well a [TS]

  lot of catching up to do [TS]

  I mean I'm starting to catch you in [TS]

  terms of Twitter followers though but I [TS]

  I noticed that you did have a nice boost [TS]

  there recently but you're still growing [TS]

  faster so I don't think I'll ever catch [TS]

  you I think that's okay I know I'm [TS]

  always surprised because it's based on [TS]

  you know based on the sort of polls that [TS]

  I've done there are quite a few people [TS]

  who listen to the shows that just don't [TS]

  use Twitter don't don't do much on [TS]

  Twitter yeah that's weird you know is [TS]

  weird shame on them so so hold on [TS]

  siracusa on twitter that's you right yep [TS]

  that's me and just to keep the count [TS]

  going good I'm Tam Benjamin on Twitter [TS]

  we don't want John to get too far and I [TS]

  think we should be tied let's try and [TS]

  get tied well say I am that's the thing [TS]

  about catching [TS]

  anybody on Twitter if you look at the [TS]

  growth graphs you think gee you know I'm [TS]

  growing I'm getting these good boost but [TS]

  then you look at somebody else who has [TS]

  maybe 10 times as many followers and [TS]

  they're growing even faster than you are [TS]

  so you'll never catch them so we're [TS]

  gonna talk about line smart today I [TS]

  think we have two and the first thing I [TS]

  have some a few all right I don't often [TS]

  get to do the a few but or at least I [TS]

  don't get to contribute as much I'd like [TS]

  to start off by saying you and I both [TS]

  last week me more than you even [TS]

  complained about this this window [TS]

  animation thing where you you're you're [TS]

  running line you open a new window for [TS]

  an app whether that's you know command [TS]

  and to open a new window or whatever it [TS]

  is right you run that and the window [TS]

  starts at that little center point you [TS]

  get this this animation that shows it [TS]

  sort of growing from the center point of [TS]

  where the fully grown window will be [TS]

  right and you and I both said this thing [TS]

  is this is the worst because it it [TS]

  actually makes things feel slower you're [TS]

  waiting and watching for window to open [TS]

  and even if it takes exactly the same [TS]

  amount of time as you said same amount [TS]

  of time to open a new window that it [TS]

  would without the animation the [TS]

  animation somehow works to make it feel [TS]

  slower so we got we said please tell us [TS]

  how to get rid of this this is terrible [TS]

  get rid of this thing and who was it [TS]

  that wrote in to us we got an email and [TS]

  I think I didn't know that you had [TS]

  already tweeted I would have just [TS]

  retweeted you but I we both sort of [TS]

  tweeted it and the guy didn't say who [TS]

  his twitter name was but it was his name [TS]

  Trevor or something no it was it was [TS]

  actually in the chat room and it was [TS]

  either during the show or just after the [TS]

  show I just wasn't paying enough [TS]

  attention to the chat room moves Tomas [TS]

  from Zen I'm so I don't know if I'm [TS]

  mangling his last name it's tio mas F at [TS]

  Twitter and I didn't see his Twitter [TS]

  name yet so he posted it in the chat [TS]

  room right he emailed us through the [TS]

  feedback form and I believe he also [TS]

  tweeted it so he blanketed all media I [TS]

  believe he was the first one to tell us [TS]

  about this thing and he actually you [TS]

  didn't actually look it up or find it on [TS]

  some web so whatever he did the thing [TS]

  that people do to find these things [TS]

  which is you just put a little hook in [TS]

  one of the methods that reads from [TS]

  property lists and then you try Gus [TS]

  trigger the animation and see which [TS]

  property list property it reads pretty [TS]

  cool [TS]

  yeah I think the way to do it there's [TS]

  lots of different ways to do it so [TS]

  obviously he's a programmer knows how to [TS]

  I think he called it's whistling the [TS]

  method but as Linda method swizzle is [TS]

  such an overloaded word in computer [TS]

  science if you go look up like the [TS]

  Wikipedia page or google it or double [TS]

  you'll see that swizzle has meant so [TS]

  many different things in so many [TS]

  different contexts but but yeah the [TS]

  bottom line is you put a little hook in [TS]

  so you can see when a method runs what [TS]

  it's actually doing and he fent he [TS]

  actually found the thing and then [TS]

  shortly after that I tweeted it and and [TS]

  then once I found his Twitter name I [TS]

  gave him credit [TS]

  through through his uh by putting his ad [TS]

  name in the next follow-up and then you [TS]

  tweeted it and then we got more and more [TS]

  emails and started appearing in articles [TS]

  and even as of today even this morning [TS]

  people were still eating me and saying [TS]

  hey I found this thing so thanks to [TS]

  everybody who is sending in this tip [TS]

  because it is a good one I actually put [TS]

  it in the show notes for the last show [TS]

  because like I said I found it right [TS]

  after the show ended and I figured if [TS]

  people go look at the show notes it's [TS]

  good for them to see it I linked to the [TS]

  secrets application website you know [TS]

  about secrets yeah secrets is a great [TS]

  app for people who don't know about it [TS]

  it's essentially it's an app but it [TS]

  shows up as a preference pane right [TS]

  system pref yep and it it's called [TS]

  secrets because it has all of these [TS]

  secret or in some cases secret or [TS]

  undocumented or little-known settings so [TS]

  that instead of having an open terminal [TS]

  and type you know default and then some [TS]

  long string of characters which might [TS]

  frighten some some people this presents [TS]

  all of these great little tweaks and app [TS]

  changes and undocumented you know things [TS]

  that aren't available from applications [TS]

  own preference panes it allows you to [TS]

  just go in there check some boxes and it [TS]

  even restarts things for you it's very [TS]

  handy little app is it in Secret Santas [TS]

  this in secret yeah that's where I mean [TS]

  it was put in sequence by somebody else [TS]

  it was put in by jens Aten or something [TS]

  like that he's I believe he's the guy [TS]

  who talking moose he's another [TS]

  well-known Matt talker moose yeah so so [TS]

  you can contribute or maybe just the [TS]

  stickies app I don't know but you can [TS]

  contribute to this database this is the [TS]

  key feature of secrets is it's not just [TS]

  a preference pane that as a list of [TS]

  stuff it reads from an online database [TS]

  of Secrets that anyone can contribute to [TS]

  so you download the secret application [TS]

  once and you just hit the little update [TS]

  secrets button and within it and it will [TS]

  pull the latest set of secrets that [TS]

  people have figured out from [TS]

  this shared database it's much better [TS]

  than remembering this side had this tip [TS]

  and this side have that tip or googling [TS]

  for what you think it is eventually all [TS]

  these things find their way into secrets [TS]

  and you can search in real-time and find [TS]

  the things that have the keywords if you [TS]

  just search for animation or something [TS]

  you would find this one you can see and [TS]

  it's not just for the system it's for [TS]

  individual applications like they have [TS]

  ones for members looking to list now [TS]

  they have ones for the DVD player for [TS]

  the fission app for acorn just [TS]

  third-party apps Apple apps everything [TS]

  so I highly so I highly recommend [TS]

  secrets it's in the show notes or if [TS]

  it's not I'll put it there it's a secret [TS]

  stop black tree comm great a little [TS]

  great little app yep it's a good tip [TS]

  shame on them for not sponsoring oh wait [TS]

  they can it's free so that's alright [TS]

  great tip though and it's in there now [TS]

  that's what you're saying so we've been [TS]

  getting a lot of emails from people [TS]

  still saying have you have you heard [TS]

  this is how you do it so we appreciate [TS]

  all of those is what you're also seeing [TS]

  right we thank you for sale because we [TS]

  asked to be told and you know they told [TS]

  us at the magic of the podcast that [TS]

  shows the power of hypercritical versus [TS]

  the power of the article that millions [TS]

  of people read and nobody knows about [TS]

  the fact that I had said I really look [TS]

  forward to knowing this usually when I [TS]

  ask for something within a Mac os10 [TS]

  review I got a flood of evil nobody sent [TS]

  an email I was afraid that those citing [TS]

  didn't even exist but then the show [TS]

  mention it once immediately we get the [TS]

  answer so maybe you should quit writing [TS]

  and just do more shows yeah maybe so [TS]

  we should also mention there were a [TS]

  handful of people I I don't remember if [TS]

  there's email more or Twitter but it in [TS]

  in one or both of those places a number [TS]

  of people said to me you know the the [TS]

  typical dead volt devil's advocate which [TS]

  is not only don't they make it seem [TS]

  slower they are clarifying the meaning [TS]

  of what's happening and we have tons and [TS]

  tons of people on our network or in [TS]

  where we work or whatever it is wherever [TS]

  this person or people have you that this [TS]

  actually clarifies what's going on that [TS]

  there are so many people out there who [TS]

  they click something and they don't they [TS]

  don't know that a window is opening and [TS]

  they sit there wondering for a long time [TS]

  has a window opened is something [TS]

  happening I don't know I saw some [TS]

  windows person talking about that and [TS]

  the windows person had a good point as [TS]

  it relates to windows I don't use [TS]

  windows much but I use it enough to [TS]

  understand what this person was saying [TS]

  it was the when you use Windows [TS]

  especially older versions of Windows [TS]

  Windows 7 is apparently better in this [TS]

  regard and I never used SS I don't know [TS]

  but like an XP and earlier versions if [TS]

  you did something in Windows opened an [TS]

  application either by double-clicking it [TS]

  or by clicking a little the taskbar icon [TS]

  in the taskbar the quick launch area or [TS]

  anything like that you'd click it and [TS]

  you'd be like nothing what happened on [TS]

  the screen you would say well it did it [TS]

  register that quick that I did I miss is [TS]

  it is the application launching like [TS]

  there's no bouncing dock icon there was [TS]

  no little rubber band animation of the [TS]

  application opening and you get in a [TS]

  situation where people would doubt and [TS]

  then click again and then you've ended [TS]

  up with two instances of IE launching [TS]

  instead of one because you weren't sure [TS]

  if the first one registered or not [TS]

  there's there was long delay between the [TS]

  time you click in the time something [TS]

  happens and during that time nothing [TS]

  visual is happening on the screen now [TS]

  the Mac has never suffered from that [TS]

  problem because of course I'm Mac OS 10 [TS]

  you had a little bouncing and that is [TS]

  clear indicator that yeah yeah we got [TS]

  your click we're trying to do what it is [TS]

  the us but it's going to take a while [TS]

  meanwhile watch this little thing bounce [TS]

  so it's a clear indication that [TS]

  something is happening and then the old [TS]

  classic Mac OS when you double-click [TS]

  from application there would be this [TS]

  little rubber band animation which be [TS]

  basically like an outline of a rectangle [TS]

  that would start small at the origin of [TS]

  your click and get bigger and bigger and [TS]

  bigger to show you hey this thing that [TS]

  you double clicked it's launching now [TS]

  and in the very old days despite the [TS]

  fact this rubber band animation was [TS]

  there from day one you could also hear [TS]

  the floppy disk grunt you know and or [TS]

  the activity light blinking there was [TS]

  always some sort of visual physical [TS]

  indication that your thing started but [TS]

  Windows kind of got into that [TS]

  uncomfortable zone where the physical [TS]

  manifestations of your action became [TS]

  less obvious because hard drives got [TS]

  tucked away inside the machines activity [TS]

  lights weren't as obvious the computer [TS]

  was behind the monitor or under the desk [TS]

  or something floppy disks went away and [TS]

  you couldn't really tell is something [TS]

  happening out and that's one of the [TS]

  things that people talked about the [TS]

  other one was that specific animation [TS]

  that we were complaining about in a [TS]

  specific animation that I had a video up [TS]

  in my review was an instance of a window [TS]

  starting from a small dot in its final [TS]

  position and zooming to its full size so [TS]

  there was no indication of where this [TS]

  window came from it's like this window [TS]

  is going to appear at this position and [TS]

  it will start its small deposition and [TS]

  eventually get full size in that [TS]

  position so the animation my argument [TS]

  argument was there was not giving you [TS]

  any additional information it wasn't [TS]

  saying [TS]

  from where did this window come from it [TS]

  was just saying here's the window it's [TS]

  going to appear here and have the window [TS]

  appeared fully formed in that same [TS]

  position it would have provided the same [TS]

  information [TS]

  one person argued that they liked the [TS]

  animation because it draws your eye more [TS]

  than if the window just appeared by [TS]

  itself I would say that that's one of [TS]

  the things against it because you do [TS]

  want to know that a new window appeared [TS]

  on the screen but this window is going [TS]

  to appear in front of all other windows [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  and by by animating it draws your eye [TS]

  too much I think the idea was that like [TS]

  when you hit command end which is what I [TS]

  was doing that video there's no origin [TS]

  like it's not the window doesn't fly out [TS]

  of your keyboard there's no way you can [TS]

  animate from where you the command but [TS]

  when you type command then the computer [TS]

  has no idea where you're looking and [TS]

  that was the person's argument was like [TS]

  yeah it has no idea where you're looking [TS]

  so it's trying to say hey this is where [TS]

  the window is going to appear to [TS]

  indicate to you where it's going to [TS]

  appear well because it doesn't know [TS]

  where I'm looking say I'm looking [TS]

  elsewhere because I'm doing some other [TS]

  tasks that's the beauty of keyboard [TS]

  commands that you can fire off command [TS]

  end from muscle memory while also [TS]

  starting your next task which is looking [TS]

  over to the side to drag an icon or [TS]

  looking in another window or reading [TS]

  something and as soon as that animation [TS]

  appears your eyes are drawn towards [TS]

  where the animation is you're losing the [TS]

  advantage of being able to fire off [TS]

  command end to make a new window while [TS]

  you're in the middle well you're [TS]

  immediately off doing some of the tasks [TS]

  like you you initiate the macro in your [TS]

  head which makes your fingers do command [TS]

  then and as soon as you issue that [TS]

  command it's like fire and forget you're [TS]

  off to your next task but as soon as the [TS]

  animation starts playing the primordial [TS]

  lizard brain mammalian avoid the [TS]

  saber-toothed tiger hunting you sorry [TS]

  please don't write me in saber-toothed [TS]

  Tigers did not live at the same time as [TS]

  humans I'm sorry you know makes your eye [TS]

  it makes your eye be drawn to this [TS]

  animation the car like what animation it [TS]

  more so than just the window appearing [TS]

  so in addition to it feeling slow it's [TS]

  it's pulling your eye away from what you [TS]

  were trying to do now the same people [TS]

  point out that if you go to the file [TS]

  menu and select new the animation begins [TS]

  at the file menu and I think that's [TS]

  actually useful animation because who's [TS]

  going to the file menu and selecting [TS]

  file new novice users right and not as [TS]

  users are the wanting to do the most [TS]

  hand-holding to understand this command [TS]

  that you initiated has produced this [TS]

  window so that animation starts [TS]

  from the menu that you just use and the [TS]

  window you know the animation slides [TS]

  over to where the window is finally [TS]

  going to appear connecting your action [TS]

  with the resulting window but advanced [TS]

  users are the ones who are all going to [TS]

  be hitting command in and they don't [TS]

  need their I've drawn tour the new [TS]

  window appears because they know new [TS]

  window is going to appear it's good to [TS]

  be on top of all other windows anyway [TS]

  unless it's a microscopic window which I [TS]

  Mac os10 really doesn't like you to make [TS]

  small windows anyway it's going to be [TS]

  obvious where it appears that animation [TS]

  is the one that drives me nuts because I [TS]

  make new documents all the time and be [TS]

  the editor you know any other thing [TS]

  constantly making new texts windows for [TS]

  just scratch areas and discarding them [TS]

  and making new ones so I'm very glad [TS]

  that this animation could be turned off [TS]

  some of the other animations like the [TS]

  bounce animation where the dialog comes [TS]

  up with it it animates from its small [TS]

  size to a size slightly larger limits [TS]

  final size and then shrinks back down [TS]

  sorta like it's bouncing at you for [TS]

  alerts and errors and stuff like that [TS]

  since they're rare and you're and [TS]

  they're not manually initiated they have [TS]

  slightly more of a reason to draw your [TS]

  attention especially for novice users [TS]

  who might not even notice that a dialog [TS]

  appeared for advanced users I still like [TS]

  the ability to turn that off but it's [TS]

  not the same thing as user initiated [TS]

  action triggering an animation and makes [TS]

  things feel slower so I will definitely [TS]

  have this setting turned off yeah I [TS]

  turned it off now do you think that the [TS]

  inspiration for this came to kind of [TS]

  create I mean you were I feel like you [TS]

  were leading up to this to create parody [TS]

  you know when you when you double-click [TS]

  a file let's say you've got a text file [TS]

  on your desktop and you double click it [TS]

  there's sort of that animation of the [TS]

  text file flying toward you you know [TS]

  what I'm saying the icon getting a [TS]

  little bigger yeah that's just indicate [TS]

  that it registered your click it doesn't [TS]

  it doesn't fly towards where the [TS]

  document will appear no it just sort of [TS]

  just jumps toward you yeah do you feel [TS]

  that this is somehow getting parity with [TS]

  that in some way no it's just an [TS]

  addition of animation like they love [TS]

  animation ever since core animation was [TS]

  introduced they've been adding it [TS]

  everywhere they possibly can [TS]

  core animation just makes it a little [TS]

  bit too easy I think to add animation [TS]

  because you're like you know what this [TS]

  is an animatable property why not [TS]

  animate it it's really easy from a [TS]

  program [TS]

  perspective now to animate stuff so they [TS]

  have their they have to think less hard [TS]

  about well do we really want this [TS]

  animation because it's going to be a lot [TS]

  of work to make it it's not a lot of [TS]

  work and you end up with animations [TS]

  everywhere and sometimes they go over [TS]

  the line a little bit so I'll let's do [TS]

  our first sponsor and you know what [TS]

  what's cool is if you're in the chat [TS]

  room if you join us live sometimes we do [TS]

  things like this when when we have like [TS]

  especially like when we have an iOS [TS]

  sponsor they're going to be given we [TS]

  have a whole bunch of codes to give away [TS]

  faith is going to be putting those into [TS]

  the not all of them this time we get to [TS]

  spread them out over some the other [TS]

  shows but she'll be putting a few into [TS]

  the into the chat room so if you're not [TS]

  in the chat room go join the chat room [TS]

  you can go to five by five dot TV slash [TS]

  live and there's like a button that says [TS]

  chat with us or link or something go [TS]

  there and faith will be dropping these [TS]

  and sometimes you do it over Twitter [TS]

  today we're going to do some in the [TS]

  chatroom [TS]

  and the sponsor is WX now this is a by [TS]

  company called hunter research and [TS]

  technology we've had some their apps on [TS]

  there they do really really cool apps [TS]

  they do iOS apps and Matt Capps and what [TS]

  I'm going to tell you about mainly today [TS]

  is WX this is an award-winning US [TS]

  weather app I know we have some [TS]

  international you know listeners so [TS]

  maybe you get a pressure this guy to do [TS]

  an international version but it's a US [TS]

  weather app it works on the Mac iPad [TS]

  iPhone it was a name to 2009 Mac Jim by [TS]

  Mac world magazine [TS]

  gyro lens it's another one is an [TS]

  innovative camera that levels photos in [TS]

  real time it puts an end to crooked [TS]

  shots I'm guilty of that especially the [TS]

  iPhone and theodolite now this is a cool [TS]

  app this is the one that makes your [TS]

  iPhone or your iPad into essentially [TS]

  into luke skywalker's viewfinder from [TS]

  Empire Strikes Back in the beginning you [TS]

  know when he's out there with the [TS]

  imperial probe droid you know I'm [TS]

  talking about John or you often I do I [TS]

  was considering whether I should do my [TS]

  imitation of the probe droid but that's [TS]

  about it [TS]

  I don't know we gotta have got excited [TS]

  not to okay it shows over so you can try [TS]

  it when I'm sorry I mean that's pretty [TS]

  good moves he rears no all right so this [TS]

  is this is a top-selling one I have to [TS]

  tell you I went to I went to the Dollar [TS]

  W axon I said listen [TS]

  I said that this theodolite ye you've [TS]

  got to make a game out of this because [TS]

  I'll sit there I'll put this on on my [TS]

  boys iPad or on his on he has a little [TS]

  iPhone it's like a game he can run [TS]

  around you know like I said if you just [TS]

  had something that shot you know could [TS]

  shoot things you know it would be like a [TS]

  virtual reality you know like a [TS]

  augmented reality kind of game is that I [TS]

  don't know if that would sell but anyway [TS]

  so if you want that you can pressure [TS]

  them into it but this has this is like a [TS]

  viewfinder with a rangefinder and int [TS]

  in-clinic inclinometer how do you say [TS]

  that a compass a GPS map I mean it's got [TS]

  everything so you can find out about all [TS]

  of this stuff read about their [TS]

  development services they do that too at [TS]

  HRT apps comm go check them out if [TS]

  you're in the chatroom faith will give [TS]

  out now you know faith maybe give out [TS]

  one of the one of the wx4 Mac one of the [TS]

  iPad ones one of the gyro Lynch just [TS]

  like one of each drop well maybe a [TS]

  couple of the theodolite [TS]

  that's it thanks to them for sponsoring [TS]

  HRT APSCo I'm looking at that app on the [TS]

  website it really does look like it [TS]

  really does the thing from it's almost [TS]

  like that he could make extra money if [TS]

  you actually licensed from Lucasfilm the [TS]

  exact appearance of that thing I'm [TS]

  surprised he doesn't get sued already [TS]

  because it's it's close but not it's [TS]

  different enough George Lee has bigger [TS]

  fish to fry [TS]

  he's worried more about who shot first [TS]

  yeah or that guy making a prop helmets [TS]

  for stormtroopers right did you rate [TS]

  that started this big you know do we [TS]

  have that in a show no it's tell people [TS]

  what you're talking about [TS]

  so some one of the guys who made the [TS]

  original helmets for Star Wars to start [TS]

  stormtrooper helmets decided that he was [TS]

  employed he was employed by Lucas to [TS]

  make these things isn't right he worked [TS]

  there and he still had the mold from [TS]

  when he made the original ones that [TS]

  appear in the movies who is it hey I bet [TS]

  I could clean up these molds and make a [TS]

  couple sure enough stormtrooper helmets [TS]

  and sell them and of course Lucas gets [TS]

  wind of it and is all cranky and tries [TS]

  to sue him and he eventually won his [TS]

  case that he is allowed to make and sell [TS]

  these helmets from these molds because I [TS]

  guess a lot of the reason he won is that [TS]

  he's not in the US he's in the UK and he [TS]

  has no assets in the US so US laws don't [TS]

  apply to him and probably his employment [TS]

  contract with Lucy Lucas was such that [TS]

  Lucas didn't say oh we reserve the [TS]

  rights to all these molds and you don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  blah blah like a modern contract would [TS]

  have said they just hired him to do it [TS]

  and didn't claim ownership of those [TS]

  molds or the intellectual property that [TS]

  they represent you know so it's kind of [TS]

  a victory against the Empire for this [TS]

  one guy and he's it's not like he's [TS]

  becoming a millionaire all but he was [TS]

  just selling something to make some [TS]

  money I should find that link put in the [TS]

  show no did you buy one no you did come [TS]

  on oh there that's I think they're [TS]

  expensive is that magic so is your [TS]

  plasma TV yeah but the plasma TV or [TS]

  watch every day and I get you know what [TS]

  I have a prediction for what's going to [TS]

  happen next WWDC someone's gonna get me [TS]

  an actual storm trip round how much of [TS]

  these things will work on it well race [TS]

  it will do for now I think I think [TS]

  they're thousands of dollars because I [TS]

  guess they're collectors would you wear [TS]

  it like everyday to or to and from work [TS]

  yeah like I had like you know in the [TS]

  1940s and 50s and you know any any man [TS]

  who had any kind of decency would be [TS]

  wearing a nice fedora would you wear [TS]

  would you wear this to work as you can [TS]

  no I think I displayed a sculpture I [TS]

  think that was part of the trial like in [TS]

  arguing whether it was a piece of [TS]

  sculpture like art or whether it was a [TS]

  costume or something like that would you [TS]

  ever wear a full a full you know like a [TS]

  full on stormtrooper suit I don't I [TS]

  can't think of any context when that [TS]

  would happen like a comic-con if we send [TS]

  you two packs or comic-con or something [TS]

  yeah but I wouldn't like I'm not one of [TS]

  those people who dresses up that's what [TS]

  I'm trying to find out if you are know [TS]

  when you LARP you dress up though [TS]

  you're the LARPing on me I've never LARP [TS]

  so you say really Aven I did go to a [TS]

  Medieval Faire as a kid does that count [TS]

  I wasn't role-playing but I just up as a [TS]

  knight I was 10 years old it wasn't that [TS]

  weird everybody dressed up to hold the [TS]

  whole class we had to get we had to [TS]

  dress it you know we had to make our art [TS]

  you know uniforms and whatever they were [TS]

  you know so some people went as a knight [TS]

  some people went is you know a jester or [TS]

  whatever I don't know whatever it goes [TS]

  on I didn't care everybody was dressed [TS]

  up I was 10 years old then someone threw [TS]

  up on the bus on the way home it was the [TS]

  worst thing and the way the teacher [TS]

  tried to counteract this the way she [TS]

  tried to mask the smell of the vomit on [TS]

  the tour bus on [TS]

  the way home on the three-hour drive [TS]

  home from Sarasota back to South Florida [TS]

  was to spray her perfume which combined [TS]

  with the smell of vomit and became [TS]

  something much much worse [TS]

  that's called childhood Dan well this is [TS]

  the closest thing to lie this is my [TS]

  LARPing experience we didn't roleplay [TS]

  although I was knighted I'll bet you're [TS]

  not in the way you've ended is that code [TS]

  for something no it's not absolutely not [TS]

  far as I know alright so what other [TS]

  topics about lion do you want to cover I [TS]

  have a big list here but you can pick [TS]

  your allow me to read off my lesson you [TS]

  can pick which one yes of course [TS]

  okay sandboxing Ark HFS+ wait slow down [TS]

  hold on sandboxing Ark I think you [TS]

  covered Ark well beyond where I want to [TS]

  I mean that you killed that in the [TS]

  article I don't want to do that you [TS]

  wanna do it at all [TS]

  no all right well we'll see if they will [TS]

  see if there's a revolt from the [TS]

  listeners I did get a lot of questions [TS]

  about it high DPI stuff the linking [TS]

  general linking in the article and then [TS]

  any other topics that I didn't cover in [TS]

  the review that you want to talk about [TS]

  well I would definitely like to talk [TS]

  about sandboxing because I don't I think [TS]

  I think it's an interesting topic I [TS]

  think they've done a lot of work behind [TS]

  the scenes on it and I think it's [TS]

  something that regular human beings [TS]

  would actually benefit from even though [TS]

  none of them listen to the show [TS]

  that this is something that people could [TS]

  know about somebody else covered our cut [TS]

  that was it Marco I think we talked [TS]

  about it I don't to be honest I kind of [TS]

  tuned out during the arc stuff no [TS]

  sandboxing I mean a little bit but not [TS]

  that not the way you do yeah I'll cover [TS]

  I think it's gonna become you really [TS]

  want to talk about our fine your show [TS]

  I'll do whatever you want it's your shot [TS]

  I'll talk about that monster million [TS]

  downloads we're on for the people who [TS]

  don't listen to Marco show or whatever [TS]

  show this was on so sandboxing is a [TS]

  feature that existed in a more limited [TS]

  form and Snow Leopard I was introduced [TS]

  in Snow Leopard I think and Apple mostly [TS]

  use it for their daemon processes so the [TS]

  dog demon processes are processes that [TS]

  run in the background continuously [TS]

  either when you're logged in or just [TS]

  continuously when the machine is booted [TS]

  and they perform services like they this [TS]

  font demons and [TS]

  caching demons and all sorts of things [TS]

  that other processes communicate with to [TS]

  get information about the system I and [TS]

  since this possible time since a lot of [TS]

  them run will either be except to both [TS]

  will use file or the whole fast or [TS]

  whatever good day hang on a sec your [TS]

  your audio is breaking up on me what are [TS]

  you doing there are you on the files [TS]

  it's not I'm on class is it Mac or C no [TS]

  it's not your mic it's uh let me try it [TS]

  let me try it back maybe skype is [TS]

  playing games with us alright [TS]

  I am we'll get him back yeah see we [TS]

  gonna make two of each face you can do [TS]

  two of each trying to John back here [TS]

  this is connecting and ever you know you [TS]

  never know what what the cause could be [TS]

  with Skype which we could move away from [TS]

  Skype entirely and I have to I have to [TS]

  be honest this I could be this stupid on [TS]

  this stupid router what they gave us can [TS]

  they still hear us in the chat room see [TS]

  this is that's terrible who knows it who [TS]

  knows what this is I am I'm really [TS]

  getting a really getting fed up with [TS]

  this thing John I say we have to blame [TS]

  this on your end no this is this is [TS]

  definitely my on that time now there's [TS]

  something weird it's like it I've got it [TS]

  I've got to go in and mess with this [TS]

  router that they gave me it's a piece of [TS]

  piece of garbage and I have to get them [TS]

  to change it out or something because it [TS]

  periodically it's like everything will [TS]

  be fine and then you'll then you'll lose [TS]

  it a little like the DHCP lease will [TS]

  expire and you won't renew I'll have to [TS]

  go in and network preferences and renew [TS]

  it now what is that don't know low [TS]

  quality weapon seriously what I send you [TS]

  this stuff anyway we don't need to waste [TS]

  time so please continue your thought I'm [TS]

  sorry too [TS]

  sub sandboxing so as I was saying [TS]

  sandboxing was introduced in snow [TS]

  leopard as a way to isolate demon [TS]

  processes to some degree I don't [TS]

  remember what the details of the [TS]

  sandboxing were but you could limit [TS]

  their privileges in a few ways it wasn't [TS]

  really promoted as a feature for [TS]

  application developers yet it was just a [TS]

  framework for making demon processes not [TS]

  be able to have full access to the file [TS]

  system or be able to do you know [TS]

  everything that our process can normally [TS]

  do with the privileges of a super user [TS]

  whatever user it's running it so in Lion [TS]

  they've greatly expanded the sandboxing [TS]

  and are now promoting it for use by [TS]

  applications and the idea is that [TS]

  applications have to declare the things [TS]

  that they're expected to do so if you [TS]

  have an application that expects to open [TS]

  a network connection you would say I [TS]

  need to be able to open network [TS]

  connections or every application expects [TS]

  incoming network connections it says I [TS]

  need to be able to open a port to listen [TS]

  for incoming network connections I need [TS]

  access to the movies folder because [TS]

  that's where I'm going to read stuff [TS]

  from or I need access to the user's home [TS]

  directory or you know it is not that [TS]

  many omits not really fine-grain I think [TS]

  there's only like 30 or something you [TS]

  know there's less than 100 of these [TS]

  entitlements they're called where you [TS]

  declare what your application is [TS]

  supposed to do and as part of the Mac [TS]

  App Store review process come November [TS]

  your application must be sandbox and [TS]

  what that means is that if you submit to [TS]

  the Mac App Store after November you [TS]

  must have Sam bossing enabled and then [TS]

  you must have this list of entitlements [TS]

  that say what your application is [TS]

  expected to do and you can't just say [TS]

  okay fine I'll list all the entitlements [TS]

  because then I don't have to worry about [TS]

  the sandbox so much I said I just need [TS]

  access to everything I need access so [TS]

  the whole file system may need access to [TS]

  the network everything everything what [TS]

  do what Apple will do in the review [TS]

  process is say you know hey this is a [TS]

  weather application why do you need [TS]

  access Y do you need to open a port for [TS]

  listening on the network why do you need [TS]

  to complete access to the file system [TS]

  for your weather application and they'll [TS]

  reject it and they'll say it doesn't [TS]

  seem like your application should need [TS]

  this entitlement to do its job please [TS]

  explain to us why you think it does and [TS]

  what they're trying to do is reduce the [TS]

  surface area [TS]

  of attack so that if one of these [TS]

  applications is exploited by a buffer [TS]

  overflow or some other kind of bug you [TS]

  can only do the things that the [TS]

  application is it restricted to doing so [TS]

  if the application doesn't need to open [TS]

  a network port as far as normal [TS]

  operation if the application is [TS]

  exploited the X point can open a network [TS]

  port either now to go further than that [TS]

  what they also want application [TS]

  developers to do is something called [TS]

  privilege separation where instead of [TS]

  having deciding what their application [TS]

  has to do it has to read and write files [TS]

  it has to talk on the network it has to [TS]

  you know have access to the camera and [TS]

  the microphone whatever things that the [TS]

  application needs to do instead of [TS]

  taking that and saying let me just make [TS]

  a list and then give my application [TS]

  these entitlements that what Apple wants [TS]

  you to do is to break up your [TS]

  application into individual sort of sub [TS]

  programs or sub applications that only [TS]

  do a specific task so for example an [TS]

  apples on a QuickTime Player it has to [TS]

  decode video and decoding video is a [TS]

  notoriously difficult process that has [TS]

  to be high performance and there have [TS]

  been a lot of exploits in sort of [TS]

  decoding of compressed information [TS]

  because that code has to be very fast [TS]

  and tends to be vulnerable to the buffer [TS]

  or buffer overflows because it can't [TS]

  constantly be checking bounds on [TS]

  everything because it has to be fast and [TS]

  that the algorithms are complex and the [TS]

  code is complex so what Apple does is [TS]

  this I we're going to offload the [TS]

  decoding of video to a separate process [TS]

  and that process doesn't need to have [TS]

  any access to the file system because we [TS]

  will feed it the data oh you know [TS]

  through memory through a inter process [TS]

  communication from the parent thing and [TS]

  this that process isn't I need to have [TS]

  any access to the network you know it [TS]

  can be extremely isolated the only thing [TS]

  that process sees is data given to it by [TS]

  its parent process and then it returns [TS]

  did all happening in memory no [TS]

  privileges for anything so if there is [TS]

  some sort of exploit in side like the [TS]

  h.264 decoding algorithm or something or [TS]

  there's some sort of bug there that if [TS]

  you feed a it maliciously created video [TS]

  to the video player something you can [TS]

  take over your computer [TS]

  well that that video will find itself [TS]

  taking over a external process that has [TS]

  almost no privileges you can't do [TS]

  anything and that that's what they want [TS]

  application developers to do is to think [TS]

  about their application and instead of [TS]

  giving [TS]

  at the superset of all entitlements that [TS]

  we need to do with job break it down [TS]

  into sub applications each of which only [TS]

  needs a few of those inside them so that [TS]

  the parent application itself would have [TS]

  a very very few entitlements and then [TS]

  supplications would have the other few [TS]

  we'll spread it out throughout them now [TS]

  splitting up your application like this [TS]

  is kind of a pinyin because you're like [TS]

  oh so where do I put these other [TS]

  executables how do I launch them how do [TS]

  I feed them data how do I reap the [TS]

  process when they're done I know you [TS]

  know how do I communicate back and forth [TS]

  but then I don't have to make my own [TS]

  propos it's kind of annoying so what [TS]

  Apple's done is created this ex PC [TS]

  framework I guess you call it that [TS]

  manages this for you it's sort of a [TS]

  system for creating separate executables [TS]

  that get stored in your applications [TS]

  bundle and what you do is operate at a [TS]

  very high level you basically call a [TS]

  method that will trigger the creation of [TS]

  this separate process on-demand handle [TS]

  the communication with it and handle [TS]

  cleaning up the process when it's done [TS]

  so you don't have to deal with those [TS]

  details making it easier for you to now [TS]

  everyone knows you should do this [TS]

  privilege separation thing if you see [TS]

  the presentation so yeah that's not but [TS]

  I don't I deal with the details so Apple [TS]

  is trying to be able to many of the [TS]

  details as possible to encourage the [TS]

  most number of developers to do this now [TS]

  this isn't you can sandbox your [TS]

  application and not do this at all but [TS]

  Apple really wants to encourage people [TS]

  to do this because they think it's a [TS]

  better way from a security perspective [TS]

  to design an application sandboxing I [TS]

  was just talking about the X PC thing [TS]

  and splitting up your application into [TS]

  pieces right all right so the [TS]

  interesting part of this is that as you [TS]

  can imagine on the Mac almost every [TS]

  application these days seems like it [TS]

  should need full access to the file [TS]

  system because how else do open files [TS]

  like it does the application can't know [TS]

  where your files are they could be [TS]

  anywhere they could be any desktop and [TS]

  your Documents folder on a server volume [TS]

  it's just expected that Mac applications [TS]

  can open up any file and so it seems [TS]

  like every Mac application or at least [TS]

  some subcomponent or a Mac application [TS]

  needs to have complete access to the [TS]

  file system and that is a big [TS]

  vulnerability because if that app is [TS]

  exploited by you know some sort of [TS]

  maliciously created file that it opens [TS]

  or any other mechanism where over the [TS]

  network or any other mechanism where you [TS]

  can take [TS]

  control this application then you have [TS]

  complete access to all that users files [TS]

  you could for example recursively delete [TS]

  their entire home directory or you know [TS]

  a plant the virus somewhere and there [TS]

  that launches every time they log in or [TS]

  do all sorts of nasty things [TS]

  so Apple solution to this is to provide [TS]

  a an intermediate a trusted intermediary [TS]

  that provides access to the full file [TS]

  system but only in response to explicit [TS]

  user actions so for example when you go [TS]

  to the file menu and select open or hit [TS]

  commando what it does is it hands-off [TS]

  operation to this power box daemon and [TS]

  the power box daemon has access to the [TS]

  full file system but your application [TS]

  doesn't and the only way you get to the [TS]

  power box thing is by explicit user [TS]

  action because you selected open from [TS]

  the file menu or you hit command o it [TS]

  wasn't something that the program did it [TS]

  was a user input that went through you [TS]

  know the input mechanism in the event [TS]

  mechanism and caused you know the open [TS]

  dialog to come up that is a signal to [TS]

  the application that yes this is a user [TS]

  doing this and not a program and then [TS]

  you're handed off to the power box [TS]

  application which is okay I will poke a [TS]

  little hole in your sandbox to allow you [TS]

  access to whichever file that I pick now [TS]

  the application is in control the power [TS]

  box applications is okay you hang on [TS]

  over there let me take over [TS]

  I'll let the guy pick the application [TS]

  that he wants and when he picks it I [TS]

  will give that one application back to [TS]

  you so the application still doesn't [TS]

  have complete access to the file so it [TS]

  just says okay I've handed off control [TS]

  to this intermediary it will give me the [TS]

  file that I want it can't it the [TS]

  application can't tell power box which [TS]

  file to open [TS]

  it's it waits for power box tell it [TS]

  here's the file that the user selected [TS]

  and that's the way that they want [TS]

  applications basically no Mac [TS]

  applications just say I need full access [TS]

  to the file system unless it's like a [TS]

  disc checker or something where it has [TS]

  to scan your whole disk that would be a [TS]

  legitimate use but for general [TS]

  applications just because you need to [TS]

  open a file you don't need full access [TS]

  to the file system this this [TS]

  intermediary they will do it for you and [TS]

  this applies to things like dragging an [TS]

  icon onto an application in the dock or [TS]

  in the finder all those mechanisms that [TS]

  are an explicit user action trigger the [TS]

  the use of this power box intermediary [TS]

  and are explicitly allowed because it [TS]

  was done by a user so this is [TS]

  kind of this is not a new innovation [TS]

  many systems use this kind of security [TS]

  model but it's the first time it's been [TS]

  coming to Mac os10 and Apple's really [TS]

  pushing it hard and the article I talked [TS]

  about the carrot and the stick the [TS]

  carrot is do this because your [TS]

  application will be more secure we're [TS]

  providing these really nice API it's [TS]

  like the X PC thing for managing [TS]

  external applications yeah we'll take [TS]

  care of the details for you we've done [TS]

  all this work for you that's the carrot [TS]

  the stick is if you want to be in the [TS]

  Mac App Store we're going to start [TS]

  requiring this November so you best get [TS]

  used to it [TS]

  a lot of legacy Mac applications have [TS]

  expectations way beyond the things that [TS]

  sandboxing allows and one of the big [TS]

  ones is Apple events you can do a lot [TS]

  with Apple events you can communicate [TS]

  from one application to the other and [TS]

  make applications do almost anything and [TS]

  some applications are built around Apple [TS]

  events for example BBEdit makes [TS]

  extensive use of them and this was the [TS]

  best practice from Apple many many years [TS]

  ago so yeah do everything with Apple [TS]

  events within your your script ability [TS]

  is great and other applications can [TS]

  communicate with you and so on and so [TS]

  forth but from a security perspective [TS]

  it's not great to do that so there's a [TS]

  severe restrictions on app cross [TS]

  application Apple events and even I [TS]

  think within application Apple events [TS]

  when you're in a sandbox so it's going [TS]

  to be a problem for some applications [TS]

  that were built based on apples previous [TS]

  advice about best practices now that [TS]

  advice is changed and there may be kind [TS]

  of a rocky road for some apps to get [TS]

  themselves within the sandbox simply [TS]

  because some assumptions are just baked [TS]

  into their design and it's not as easy [TS]

  as just giving yourself a list of [TS]

  entitlements that you that you need or [TS]

  breaking replication up into pieces so I [TS]

  think that cover sandboxing raids [TS]

  I wonder how important is this to modern [TS]

  operating systems I mean is this [TS]

  something that's sort of critical that [TS]

  they all need or is this Apple doing [TS]

  something extra that it's not required [TS]

  is this innovation I mean - what's your [TS]

  take on this is this like an about time [TS]

  kind of a thing well like a lot of the [TS]

  things in Lion all this was field tested [TS]

  in iOS so they are not kind of flying [TS]

  blind like in iOS they have a system [TS]

  where applications are by default even [TS]

  more restricted they have don't have [TS]

  full access of the filesystem they they [TS]

  are confined to their own little world [TS]

  they're very very restricted and not in [TS]

  a very configurable way [TS]

  ah and so what they're trying to say is [TS]

  we found that can work that people can [TS]

  write applications that that the user is [TS]

  like being severely severely restricted [TS]

  and I say well the Mac is the Wild West [TS]

  how do we get from the Wild West to [TS]

  something closer to that and so this is [TS]

  them trying to move the Mac in that [TS]

  direction and to their credit there they [TS]

  have taken the lead in this even in [TS]

  previous versions like in Snow Leopard [TS]

  Safari was made to split up like [TS]

  internet plugins like flash and [TS]

  everything into separate applications so [TS]

  the one that crashed they don't take [TS]

  down the whole app and any of is that [TS]

  obviously Safari is one of those [TS]

  applications where security is critical [TS]

  because you're constantly on the web [TS]

  reading data from unknown sources all [TS]

  day long and in Lion they've done the [TS]

  same thing where you know now the [TS]

  QuickTime application is a sandbox [TS]

  executable for decoding that PDF [TS]

  rendering is pushed off into a separate [TS]

  application by the framework that does [TS]

  that of the preview application they [TS]

  using WebKit to which further separates [TS]

  not just separating plugins and [TS]

  separating video decoding and stuff like [TS]

  that but also separating the rendering [TS]

  process itself from the actual Safari [TS]

  application so it's getting to the point [TS]

  where Apple's applications are just [TS]

  shells for other services that are [TS]

  spawned off in other applications and [TS]

  they're starting with the ones that are [TS]

  most vulnerable security wise there's [TS]

  been tons of PDF exploits so they wanted [TS]

  to make sure that their PDF rendering [TS]

  was isolated and of course web exploits [TS]

  they're constantly making Safari more [TS]

  resilient to this so I think it's [TS]

  inevitable and it's not a surprise [TS]

  they're doing it it's not an about time [TS]

  I think it's pretty much on schedule [TS]

  because there is a mismatch between the [TS]

  traditional expectations of desktop [TS]

  applications and what iOS apps can do [TS]

  and they do want to heard desktop [TS]

  applications in that direction there's [TS]

  so many different angles in this this is [TS]

  security angle there's the stability [TS]

  angle there is the simplicity angle in [TS]

  terms of if we can confine applications [TS]

  to a specific directory that the user [TS]

  doesn't have to know about them they [TS]

  don't have their files scattered all [TS]

  over the place [TS]

  iCloud will go further in that direction [TS]

  because in iCloud if you want to make a [TS]

  file ubiquitous which is their their [TS]

  terminology for a file that appears on [TS]

  all your different machines like put it [TS]

  in the cloud [TS]

  the local location of that file on your [TS]

  file system on your Mac is supposed to [TS]

  be immaterial [TS]

  like you'll you can find it and know [TS]

  where it is if you're interested but [TS]

  once you once you put it into the cloud [TS]

  you're not supposed to really care where [TS]

  the document is on your file system if [TS]

  if for example an application if all of [TS]

  its files were in file cloud file cloud [TS]

  and if all of its files were in iCloud [TS]

  they would not have to have full access [TS]

  the files they could be sandbox like an [TS]

  iOS application is because that's what [TS]

  iOS apps are like their files have to be [TS]

  within their little little world like if [TS]

  they can't reach into other applications [TS]

  files and that's limiting from a sharing [TS]

  perspective but it's great from a [TS]

  security perspective where you can't [TS]

  mess with other applications so if a Mac [TS]

  application was 100% dedicated to iCloud [TS]

  it could behave like that too now there [TS]

  is there's an opposition to this which [TS]

  is but what about application or what [TS]

  about files that I use in multiple [TS]

  applications what like a PDF that I want [TS]

  to open in PDF pen to edit but I also [TS]

  want to open in preview but I also open [TS]

  it in my web browser occasionally or [TS]

  open it in some sort of ebook reader [TS]

  application a single PDF can be open to [TS]

  many different applications and you [TS]

  can't you can't have it just confined to [TS]

  the preview applications little iCloud [TS]

  document mobile documents and box area [TS]

  because then how would the other [TS]

  applications see it so the Mac is [TS]

  different from iOS and Apple is going to [TS]

  have to walk that line between security [TS]

  and stability and not having to worry [TS]

  about the file system but also [TS]

  acknowledging that you do need to share [TS]

  applications between you need to share [TS]

  data between applications on the Mac and [TS]

  I would argue that you need to do that [TS]

  in iOS as well a lot of people [TS]

  complained how annoying it is that once [TS]

  PDF for example gets sucked up into [TS]

  iBooks if you want to open that PDF in [TS]

  another application it's not quite as [TS]

  easy unless you go back to the original [TS]

  email that it came in and you know tap [TS]

  and hold down and say open another [TS]

  application it'll be an interesting [TS]

  balancing act but right now we're still [TS]

  in the early stages and I think for the [TS]

  most part Mac [TS]

  applications should be able to adopt [TS]

  sandboxing without freaking users or [TS]

  developers out too much but they could [TS]

  help with a couple of exceptions [TS]

  surrounding Apple events and other [TS]

  applications that want to do more [TS]

  interesting things you with all these [TS]

  things you don't want Apple to get too [TS]

  draconian about the restrictions because [TS]

  you will be eliminating interesting [TS]

  applications that do things that are [TS]

  outside the bounds of sandboxing useful [TS]

  things that you would want to do like [TS]

  for example SuperDuper obviously needs [TS]

  to read every single file on your disk [TS]

  to make it clone but if Apple is to [TS]

  decree that all applications must be [TS]

  sandbox only sandbox applications can [TS]

  run in by the way that entitlement where [TS]

  you want to read every file on disk [TS]

  we're not letting you have that or it's [TS]

  super duper is already out of the Mac [TS]

  App Store because you needed Min [TS]

  privileges to read every file in the [TS]

  disk because normally you can only read [TS]

  your files what about the function the [TS]

  other work inside so no I don't think [TS]

  anyone would argue that super dooper is [TS]

  not a useful application it's a [TS]

  tremendously useful but it doesn't fit [TS]

  within Apple's worldview right now and [TS]

  it would be a shame to see more [TS]

  applications that are interesting and [TS]

  useful get pushed to the side because [TS]

  they're not in the 80 percent of like an [TS]

  application that you open text files or [TS]

  audio in or some simple thing like that [TS]

  I think that's my take on sandboxing [TS]

  mostly good but it all depends on how [TS]

  Apple handles the rollout and execution [TS]

  and how developers handle it and you're [TS]

  feeling optimistic about that in general [TS]

  though right yeah because like where [TS]

  they're doing it now is where it makes [TS]

  so much sense like I want Safari to be [TS]

  chopped up into little pieces in sandbox [TS]

  I want PDF rendering to be off in a [TS]

  separate process and all that other [TS]

  stuff from a user's perspective all [TS]

  those things are good and I will be [TS]

  happy when and when I if I download a [TS]

  little Mac application that lets me edit [TS]

  audio or something that it doesn't need [TS]

  full access to the file system it [TS]

  doesn't need to be able to turn on the [TS]

  camera or the microphone on my monitor [TS]

  and all sorts of that they're their [TS]

  entitlements for all sorts of stuff like [TS]

  that right I'm glad that Apple is making [TS]

  sure that an application some simple [TS]

  application like that like a game [TS]

  doesn't need to do things that are way [TS]

  outside the realm it's it's malware [TS]

  protection basically so that that's a [TS]

  good use of Apple's power and you know [TS]

  as long as they avoid the bad uses I [TS]

  think it'll turn out okay you know who's [TS]

  a really a big proponent of sandboxing [TS]

  who's that source Fitz calm these guys [TS]

  make amazing software software design [TS]

  development services for iOS Mac they [TS]

  even do Android do you know if Android [TS]

  has the same boxing I don't know [TS]

  anyway they also do web stuff there [TS]

  they're a bleeding edge kind of a [TS]

  company they they're on top of this that [TS]

  this stuff we're talking about now [TS]

  that's new they've been this is their [TS]

  this is all hat for them and their deep [TS]

  experiencing successful track record [TS]

  will ensure your idea because you go to [TS]

  them with an idea that's what these guys [TS]

  do you go to them with an idea you say I [TS]

  have an idea I don't know what to do I [TS]

  have this great idea and they said don't [TS]

  worry about it we'll make you a visually [TS]

  stunning world-class app in no time they [TS]

  know how to do this they'll save you [TS]

  time and money by getting it done right [TS]

  the first time [TS]

  they're very diamond seriously these [TS]

  guys they're cutting edges Tom man if [TS]

  you want something done and this is the [TS]

  thing people show up with an idea and [TS]

  they say well I guess I have to go out [TS]

  and review iOS developers I guess I have [TS]

  to go on Craigslist and then hire [TS]

  somebody or whatever you don't I mean [TS]

  I'm not saying don't do that [TS]

  but typical projects that's not how you [TS]

  want to get started you just call these [TS]

  guys you go to source bits calm you tell [TS]

  them look I heard about you guys on [TS]

  hypercritical [TS]

  set me up give me a good you know get me [TS]

  going here and in days you'll have a [TS]

  prototype app up and running and working [TS]

  it's amazing so check these guys [TS]

  outsource boots comm they do web apps [TS]

  too don't forget about that check em out [TS]

  tell them we send your source Fitz comm [TS]

  check it out they do sandboxing yeah [TS]

  everyone will I think the motivation to [TS]

  be in the Mac App Store is very high and [TS]

  if an application can conceivably be in [TS]

  the Mac App Store according to apples [TS]

  rules most developers want their app to [TS]

  be there at this point even if they [TS]

  still sell it separately they still they [TS]

  want to be available in as many markets [TS]

  as possible in the Mac App Store has [TS]

  been driving sales for people so what [TS]

  are some of these other things you want [TS]

  to talk because I still think you know I [TS]

  still think people want to hear more [TS]

  about your rants on them the user [TS]

  interface have you have you been using [TS]

  line now yet is your primary oh no it's [TS]

  gonna be a while before I upgrade a [TS]

  while why what absolutely waiting for I [TS]

  still have to figure out what I'm gonna [TS]

  do with Quicken [TS]

  I really don't is it doesn't hope [TS]

  there's quick and just not run is that [TS]

  the profit just won't run or what [TS]

  doesn't run does not law doesn't realize [TS]

  so I need to do you use Quicken for your [TS]

  personal finances yeah yeah so I need to [TS]

  figure out what I'm going to do there I [TS]

  start auditioning applications I need to [TS]

  figure what I'm going to do with [TS]

  Photoshop because I don't like not [TS]

  having Photoshop on my system I do have [TS]

  a copy of a corn and a couple other [TS]

  programs that I purchased but I kind of [TS]

  like Photoshop even though I use one [TS]

  eight thousandth of its functionality [TS]

  I'm used to it and occasionally I do use [TS]

  one or two of the more advanced features [TS]

  so I gotta figure what I'm going to do [TS]

  there yeah I'm collecting updated [TS]

  versions of applications now I've gotten [TS]

  updated version of macfuse some of my [TS]

  open store stuff I'll probably rebuild I [TS]

  don't know it's going to be awhile and [TS]

  it work it's a similar issue where I [TS]

  have to use disk encryption at work but [TS]

  I don't know if the if work has yet [TS]

  approved Apple's disk encryption so this [TS]

  is what I was going to ask you we spend [TS]

  a lot of time last week John talking [TS]

  about the encryption and then you came [TS]

  out with a link [TS]

  I didn't I dang I didn't put in this [TS]

  week's show notes but it's a great link [TS]

  somebody actually ran some benchmarks [TS]

  they actually have some legitimate [TS]

  benchmarks showing how much of a [TS]

  performance hit you will you will feel [TS]

  and it was bigger than you made it seem [TS]

  to be honest well I added two links I [TS]

  was just basically posting links that [TS]

  other people sent me I don't know the [TS]

  Providence of these things are what Alex [TS]

  tends to the testing was what if someone [TS]

  sends me some information with a graph [TS]

  all retweeted right all you all you need [TS]

  to get John to retweet something is send [TS]

  to have a graph on the page and you'll [TS]

  retweet you if it's something useful so [TS]

  the first one showed that read [TS]

  performance was not really impacted by [TS]

  write performance was like like 50% [TS]

  reduction uh and so I just posted that I [TS]

  there was no explanation accompanying it [TS]

  was just like this guy did this testing [TS]

  he's the benchmark here's the graph he's [TS]

  produced that's a lot though 50% all [TS]

  right so a little bit later someone else [TS]

  produced another graph that showed a [TS]

  much much lower hit with a different SSD [TS]

  and a different system I don't even know [TS]

  if the benchmark was a shame showing [TS]

  that reads were not really affected that [TS]

  much and rights were barely affected and [TS]

  that was a dramatic difference from one [TS]

  guy's testing on his machine with it as [TS]

  a state to another guy's testing so just [TS]

  go I mean we're the benchmarks different [TS]

  is because the SSD Hardware was [TS]

  different is because one had different [TS]

  drivers that you know I I make people [TS]

  can draw their own conclusions I have no [TS]

  information about these two people's [TS]

  benchmarks or what they mean now I did [TS]

  see some interesting theories one thing [TS]

  to understand about SSDs is that they [TS]

  have to write data in big hunking blocks [TS]

  even if you just update like one byte [TS]

  somewhere they can't just go in there [TS]

  and twiddle the bits in that one byte [TS]

  what they have to do is take an entire [TS]

  region I forget how big these regions [TS]

  are what they're called this correct [TS]

  terminology if you go to the Wikipedia [TS]

  page on SSDs or flash storage they have [TS]

  to wipe the entire region and rewrite it [TS]

  with the change inside it so as you can [TS]

  imagine doing writes could potentially [TS]

  be a lot slower than than doing reads if [TS]

  you have to erase some big giant region [TS]

  before you write it in there and one [TS]

  person's theory was that a lot of SSDs [TS]

  have firmware on them or you know chips [TS]

  that try to figure out just just the [TS]

  deltas between what's there now and what [TS]

  you have and they try to be more [TS]

  efficient about just writing the deltas [TS]

  even though they have to clear the [TS]

  entire area and since when you just [TS]

  change one or two little bits if the [TS]

  underlying storage is encrypted the [TS]

  entire block could actually change and [TS]

  not just those one or two bits because [TS]

  in the unencrypted world you change one [TS]

  into a little bits but when you re [TS]

  encrypt that the whole frickin block is [TS]

  changed and so then you have to actually [TS]

  the diff is 100% no matter what you [TS]

  change even if you just change one byte [TS]

  in this area that was one theory I heard [TS]

  some guy put forward to why the write [TS]

  performance would be so massively [TS]

  affected the reads wouldn't be as [TS]

  effective as we were just saying read [TS]

  this it just comes right off the disk [TS]

  and gets decrypted so it would mean that [TS]

  it's not the encryption and decryption [TS]

  process that's slowing it down but it's [TS]

  the fact that changing one byte in the [TS]

  decrypted world means changing in making [TS]

  the entire block different in the [TS]

  encrypted world and so that that would [TS]

  account for the writes being so much [TS]

  slower but but again the second test [TS]

  that showed the rights weren't is slow [TS]

  maybe that's a different set of firmware [TS]

  or smaller block size different kinds of [TS]

  flash I don't know the details though [TS]

  I'm saying is that if you have concerns [TS]

  remember that encryption is always [TS]

  reversible you can encrypt a small disk [TS]

  into a benchmark on it yourself with [TS]

  your actual design and decrypt it or you [TS]

  could just you know take a hands-off [TS]

  approach and say I'm not going to I'm [TS]

  not going to try this until I see more [TS]

  information [TS]

  a lot of people are saying hey i heard [TS]

  john recommending encryption so I'm [TS]

  going and doing it that's all well and [TS]

  good remember I also I'm also not [TS]

  upgrading my own computer I'm also [TS]

  recommending making really good backups [TS]

  and you know don't don't just do [TS]

  something because I say so [TS]

  you're not absolved of responsibility or [TS]

  using these features because I said it [TS]

  was good you have to do your own due [TS]

  diligence and really decide based on [TS]

  what you know for a fact whether whether [TS]

  this will hurt your particular usage see [TS]

  I actually disagree I just do whatever [TS]

  you recommend and I assume that you're [TS]

  going to vet it and and prequalify it [TS]

  and if you say I mean if you say that [TS]

  you do it it's good enough for me well [TS]

  every now that's the value of the show [TS]

  John value to show is if you come in you [TS]

  roll in you're like mothers what I do [TS]

  I'm done I'm I'm gonna do that I'll say [TS]

  I did run it for months and months all [TS]

  the devils I never had a single problem [TS]

  but you don't have the same hardware as [TS]

  me and you and I certainly wasn't doing [TS]

  any disk intensive operations so you [TS]

  know all the saying is that I never [TS]

  noticed a performance hit in my casual [TS]

  testing operations oh it is reversible [TS]

  make a good backup encrypt your disk let [TS]

  it go overnight right run the thing for [TS]

  a day or two if you don't notice a speed [TS]

  hit and it works fine for you then [TS]

  you're fine if you think it's bothering [TS]

  you're causing a speed hook then you can [TS]

  reverse it a lot of people are giving [TS]

  false positives on it like where Gus [TS]

  Mueller I think a guy who makes a corn [TS]

  and Voodoo pad and a bunch of other [TS]

  applications flying meat software he [TS]

  tweeted that he had encrypted his disk [TS]

  and was going to reverse it because it [TS]

  was making everything much slower and [TS]

  then a couple minutes later he tweeted [TS]

  actually it wasn't the encryption [TS]

  because I decrypt it and things are [TS]

  still slow and I gotta figure out what [TS]

  this problem actually is so anytime you [TS]

  change anything is a tendency to blame [TS]

  and blame any problems you have on [TS]

  whatever it is that you just did so you [TS]

  know do good a be testing do benchmarks [TS]

  if you want or just wait on the web to [TS]

  see people do better benchmarks I'll [TS]

  just wait for I'll just wait for you to [TS]

  say what to do yeah I'm not gonna [TS]

  encrypt my Mac Pro because at home [TS]

  because it doesn't move so do you ever [TS]

  worry do you ever worried somebody might [TS]

  break in your house while you're gone [TS]

  and like get on your computer and or [TS]

  take the whole computer take the whole [TS]

  thing it could happen [TS]

  I don't think there's anything [TS]

  on there that you know your quicken you [TS]

  go quicken yeah that's not there's [TS]

  nothing in quick it doesn't anyone who's [TS]

  interested in my finances would learn [TS]

  all about my finances but not like my [TS]

  passwords are all in their their bank [TS]

  passwords or anything is just an [TS]

  accounting of money and various accounts [TS]

  all I know is I want to get in there and [TS]

  see your quicken I wouldn't steal [TS]

  anything I would just look around poke [TS]

  around in there benevolent Hank yeah I [TS]

  don't worry too much about people bring [TS]

  I live in a very low crime area [TS]

  thankfully that's good oh you wanna do a [TS]

  hfs+ disc stuff AJ you know I like HFS+ [TS]

  discussions because well I thought that [TS]

  was one of the areas that we didn't get [TS]

  to cover last week and that's something [TS]

  that is very I mean maybe we make this [TS]

  our final topic but I think I think this [TS]

  is very much an interesting interesting [TS]

  thing to talk about for me because you [TS]

  know if you think back to the the olden [TS]

  days [TS]

  HFS was ahead of its time HFS was great [TS]

  HFS used to be a really wonderful file [TS]

  system that did things that few few [TS]

  other file systems were capable of am i [TS]

  right yeah it was in it for its time not [TS]

  so much cutting edge in terms of the [TS]

  file system particulars but in terms of [TS]

  what the file system decided to support [TS]

  you know let me think about this rate [TS]

  resource Forks and stuff like that think [TS]

  about this let's go back in time let's [TS]

  go back in time to I guess we're talking [TS]

  about systems 7 on the Mac and what was [TS]

  what was going on in the windows world [TS]

  at that time was it windows for [TS]

  workgroups or just Windows 3.1 I don't [TS]

  remember but it was something like that [TS]

  it was a you know have you have to go [TS]

  back much farther that HFS was really no [TS]

  I'm not saying HFS I'm just going to [TS]

  point something out I'm just going to [TS]

  point something out at that time period [TS]

  is that while Windows was in the 3.1 [TS]

  time Microsoft DOS ms-dos and then you [TS]

  type win to launch Windows and you [TS]

  couldn't you couldn't do things in [TS]

  Windows at that time and there's a lot [TS]

  of people who they weren't even alive [TS]

  they weren't even using computers if [TS]

  they were alive at this time period I [TS]

  mean we're talking a long time [TS]

  mean we're talking a long time [TS]

  listeners that might have never gone [TS]

  through this and I'm sure you went [TS]

  through this kind of thing on the Mac if [TS]

  you wanted to you could put you could [TS]

  have an app running an application sorry [TS]

  old school terms an application they [TS]

  could just sit on the desktop you just [TS]

  double-click it to launch it that's it [TS]

  oh you don't want it there you put it in [TS]

  another folder drag it to another folder [TS]

  there were very it mattered very little [TS]

  where things were I mean obviously if [TS]

  you wanted your extensions to load they [TS]

  had to be in in your extensions folder [TS]

  in your system folder but I mean other [TS]

  than that you could put stuff wherever [TS]

  you felt like putting it the [TS]

  applications while they were running [TS]

  pick him up drag and put him somewhere [TS]

  else people in a like so what big deal [TS]

  right who cares well back then I mean [TS]

  that was a big deal that was one of the [TS]

  big selling points of the Mac is you [TS]

  just stuff worked the way that the end [TS]

  user wanted it to work Mac os10 [TS]

  that they got a little bit tougher about [TS]

  that because it's a you know UNIX [TS]

  underpinnings so they they got a little [TS]

  bit tougher but it's still pretty good [TS]

  like that but well if you moved one of [TS]

  Windows files or applications or [TS]

  something I mean it just wouldn't work a [TS]

  flat-out not work I remember when I was [TS]

  I used to be an IT support guy and some [TS]

  lady called me down to her office and [TS]

  she said Dan you know my computer is [TS]

  acting really weird it gets acting [TS]

  really weird really weird again it's not [TS]

  doing something really weird is it all [TS]

  right no you don't come down so I went [TS]

  down her office and it was it was acting [TS]

  very weird all kinds of really weird [TS]

  dialog boxes things are crashing looking [TS]

  around so you know first thing you do is [TS]

  you launch Windows Explorer or whatever [TS]

  it was back then you look and and she [TS]

  had two folders at the root of her hard [TS]

  drive now this is back in the days where [TS]

  you had to have like a C colon slash [TS]

  Windows and inside of that there was a [TS]

  Windows system I mean it was very you [TS]

  had to have certain things set up just [TS]

  just so she had two folders one was her [TS]

  name I don't remember let's just say her [TS]

  name was Janine Janine that was one [TS]

  folder Janine and then there was another [TS]

  folder called stupid stuff and she had [TS]

  while the system was running she had [TS]

  moved the windows and the windows system [TS]

  and everything she had moved that into [TS]

  the stupid stuff folder because it was [TS]

  stupid she didn't like that she didn't [TS]

  want to see that at the root of her hard [TS]

  drive every time [TS]

  so she had moved it there I mean when [TS]

  the machine was just going crazy I'm not [TS]

  saying you could have done the [TS]

  equivalent thing on the Mac and [TS]

  everything would have worked but going [TS]

  back to the whole file system thing you [TS]

  could you could have case sensitivity [TS]

  and it understood that you could [TS]

  navigate the file system and I'm much [TS]

  more pleasant much easier way and a big [TS]

  part of that was that was what HFS [TS]

  allowed you to do you could have you [TS]

  know certain files opening with the [TS]

  applications that you actually want them [TS]

  to and there wasn't some registry that [TS]

  you would need to edit to make a change [TS]

  I mean you give it some credit man what [TS]

  the big innovation that I think that the [TS]

  original HFS had in long filenames [TS]

  obviously because in the PC world that [TS]

  was not common then no you couldn't you [TS]

  couldn't do that for real you would have [TS]

  the file name with the little tilde on [TS]

  it and that was that was only Windows 95 [TS]

  yeah 80 10 years before you have long [TS]

  names the lack of file name extensions [TS]

  because there was other metadata that it [TS]

  used instead of filename extension so [TS]

  the file name was completely in the [TS]

  domain of the user and they did file [TS]

  tracking through unique IDs that were [TS]

  unique that was the vault it was a [TS]

  volume ID and then a file ID so if you [TS]

  move the file while it was open and [TS]

  applications keep track of it because [TS]

  they were referencing it by its unique [TS]

  ID not by its names you could move it [TS]

  rename it and the application would [TS]

  still know where it was some of these [TS]

  things had a little backsliding in Mac [TS]

  OS 10 the extensions file extensions [TS]

  came on we should do a whole show and [TS]

  finally I'm extending as well just yell [TS]

  about that but not today [TS]

  tracking files a lot of the next derived [TS]

  applications tracked files by paths and [TS]

  if you moved the file out of the way or [TS]

  renamed it they would lose track of it [TS]

  they fixed most of these things over the [TS]

  course of Mac OS 10 were they that raw [TS]

  right now we have a way to track the [TS]

  file when it's renamed we have a way to [TS]

  hide the extensions we have a different [TS]

  system for binding files to applications [TS]

  we have long file names like we always [TS]

  had but we have you know HFS+ bought [TS]

  Unicode support in 1999 or whatever it [TS]

  was introduced so there was a little bit [TS]

  of backsliding into the bad old world [TS]

  and some of that we've never fully [TS]

  recovered from like filing sentence but [TS]

  yeah HFS was a pretty good file system [TS]

  but I'm in all my Mac OS 10 reviews over [TS]

  the years I've been complaining about [TS]

  the file system or asking when we're [TS]

  going to get a new file system or in my [TS]

  blog and ours I've been talking [TS]

  about for years and years and years [TS]

  about well what about ZFS or even before [TS]

  that Apple hired the guy over the B file [TS]

  system for from bos oh is he going to [TS]

  make a new file system for Apple so many [TS]

  things looking to making a new file [TS]

  system and most people aren't interested [TS]

  like they don't know what the file [TS]

  system is they don't even know what I [TS]

  mean by a file system do that they think [TS]

  I mean the finder or where folders are [TS]

  or something like that then if you don't [TS]

  know what a file system is it's [TS]

  difficult to explain to somebody oh this [TS]

  is the piece of software that manages [TS]

  we're on the spinning disk or on the SSD [TS]

  the data for your files are stored and [TS]

  when you ask for a file to be looked up [TS]

  it figures out you know it's it's [TS]

  keeping indexes of files and information [TS]

  about which files and what directory and [TS]

  what the files are named and where all [TS]

  the blocks that make up those files are [TS]

  are you know that if you don't know what [TS]

  a file system is is difficult to explain [TS]

  so I've been complaining about this for [TS]

  years and nothing's been happening like [TS]

  there was we almost got ZFS years and [TS]

  years ago when I think we like Snow [TS]

  Leopard server was coming out on Apple [TS]

  comm it said and a great new feature of [TS]

  Snow Leopard server ZFS it's this great [TS]

  new file system and this is this this [TS]

  made to the apple.com website long after [TS]

  there had been talk on the web that [TS]

  Apple was porting ZFS and Apple had [TS]

  posted publicly - mailing lists hey we [TS]

  want to pour ZFS to Mac OS 10 if you [TS]

  want to help come on board we'll hire [TS]

  you you'll be a contract or whatever [TS]

  just so much will meant to be behind ZFS [TS]

  going on to Mac OS 10 a ZFS what people [TS]

  don't know is that file system created [TS]

  by Sun that was like a next-generation [TS]

  file system I did I mean this thing did [TS]

  ever this thing was this was going to be [TS]

  the bomb the ZFS this is what people [TS]

  were ruling this is what they were [TS]

  killing for it was it was made for [TS]

  server operating system though it was [TS]

  never really quite a good fit for client [TS]

  operating system but but the point is [TS]

  Apple got so far along with this process [TS]

  that they actually put on their publicly [TS]

  accessible website that regular people [TS]

  could see this line item on a page [TS]

  listing the features of an upcoming [TS]

  operating system the server won't only [TS]

  not the client but it was there but as [TS]

  we all know they took that off the [TS]

  webpage Snow Leopard was released [TS]

  without any official ZFS support except [TS]

  for like this open source thing that you [TS]

  could download and install that was [TS]

  always buggy and weird and eventually [TS]

  those projects died out some people say [TS]

  it was because of legal reasons or [TS]

  licensing some people say it's because [TS]

  Oracle bought Sun [TS]

  others say it's because it was not the [TS]

  file system just didn't perform up to [TS]

  the standards that it needs to perform [TS]

  it wasn't a good fit for it was maybe a [TS]

  good fit for servers but not a good fit [TS]

  for apples client operating system [TS]

  certainly not a good fit for iOS all [TS]

  sorts of reasons why it didn't make it [TS]

  but the bottom line is that now we are [TS]

  left with HFS+ which has been as I said [TS]

  in the review of Mac OS the Mac OS [TS]

  itself got a big reset when we went to [TS]

  Mac OS 10 classic Mac OS in Mac OS 10 [TS]

  have very very little in common except [TS]

  branding and a little bit of a [TS]

  philosophy the code bases are very very [TS]

  different from each other so that was a [TS]

  discontinuity at but we got a [TS]

  next-generation operating system with [TS]

  all sorts of wizzy new features and [TS]

  great stuff we didn't get a [TS]

  next-generation file system instead we [TS]

  just stuck with the file system that was [TS]

  the current file system in classic mac [TS]

  OS m and a lot of stuff has been added [TS]

  to it over the years journaling and [TS]

  extended attributes internal compression [TS]

  and and now they've added encryption [TS]

  through the core storage stuff which is [TS]

  actually a layer above the file system [TS]

  itself and I thought I would take time [TS]

  in this review finally to explain why do [TS]

  I care what why do I think we need a new [TS]

  fastest one all seems fine if you asked [TS]

  a regular person if you were able to [TS]

  adequately explain to them what a file [TS]

  system is they'd be like all right well [TS]

  so the one I have obviously gets the job [TS]

  done because I see my files and they [TS]

  open and close just fine and I could [TS]

  save files and what's the big deal so I [TS]

  tried to explain here's what's wrong [TS]

  with HFS+ here's why we need another [TS]

  file system like here's how the state of [TS]

  the artist moved on I tried to avoid [TS]

  saying look at this specific modern file [TS]

  system and things it has HFS doesn't [TS]

  because then people would just say oh [TS]

  well that may be true but like if I pick [TS]

  ZFS that may be true but ZFS takes a lot [TS]

  of memory see if I super slow about this [TS]

  logging file systems turn random you [TS]

  know sequential reads into random reads [TS]

  and they turn random writes into [TS]

  sequential writes in that and that data [TS]

  pattern is not conducive to my [TS]

  particular application and but there's [TS]

  so many reasons you can shoot down any [TS]

  other particular alternative and I [TS]

  wouldn't argue with them all I'm saying [TS]

  is that hfs+ is showing its age really [TS]

  badly so I listed all sorts of weird [TS]

  legacy things that H of s does you know [TS]

  specific technical details that that [TS]

  show the mega hfs+ show its age but [TS]

  the bottom line is that in my daily [TS]

  experience using Mac OS 10 and everybody [TS]

  else is probably it's you know if I had [TS]

  to list the the things that are wrong [TS]

  with it [TS]

  the the biggest one is that it's not [TS]

  reliable like if you just run a Mac for [TS]

  a year and and at the end of that year [TS]

  you're on Disk Utility it will probably [TS]

  find errors not hardware errors but [TS]

  software errors on the disk where you [TS]

  know this this particular note it'll say [TS]

  some weird thing you won't understand if [TS]

  you don't understand the internals of [TS]

  hs+ but like you know incorrect thread [TS]

  crown incorrect extent node count you [TS]

  know some some metadata about the way [TS]

  data for a particular file is arranged [TS]

  or the way the files in a particular [TS]

  directory are arranged is incorrect and [TS]

  usually that data can be fixed by [TS]

  scanning the filesystem finding the [TS]

  correct number and putting it in there [TS]

  but if you get an accumulation of those [TS]

  errors or a bad one of them in the wrong [TS]

  place you can lose data sometimes lots [TS]

  of data one of the things I pointed out [TS]

  and the Articles that they added hard [TS]

  links to directories to HFS+ them I'm [TS]

  going to go into explaining what hard [TS]

  links are but it's it's a just for now [TS]

  know that it's a they thing from UNIX [TS]

  that the Mac operating system didn't [TS]

  have and when Mac OS 10 came along they [TS]

  needed support for hard links and then [TS]

  when Time Machine came along they used [TS]

  hard links to directories which was even [TS]

  odd in the world of UNIX so they needed [TS]

  to add support for that to the file [TS]

  system and the way they added it was [TS]

  that this little directory of the root [TS]

  level your hard drive called HFS+ [TS]

  private day there or something like that [TS]

  with some non-printing characters [TS]

  chopped on the front of it it's [TS]

  invisible you can't normally see it you [TS]

  can't normally get to it but it's there [TS]

  and for every hard link they just put a [TS]

  little file in that directory and all [TS]

  the hard links on the entire disk and [TS]

  the entire volume anyway have a [TS]

  representative file in that directory [TS]

  now when you do a time machine back up [TS]

  there are millions and files on a you [TS]

  know average sized Mac disk and when you [TS]

  make Time Machine backups they make hard [TS]

  links between them so they don't have to [TS]

  have 20 copies of the same file if you [TS]

  have twenty different backups instead [TS]

  they have one copy of the file and 20 [TS]

  hard links so if you were to count up [TS]

  how many hard links you have in that [TS]

  directory on your time machine volume [TS]

  you would see this hundreds of thousands [TS]

  of hard links all sitting in a single [TS]

  directory and I think even regular [TS]

  people can understand that if you have a [TS]

  singer' folder with hundreds of [TS]

  thousands of files in it that's not good [TS]

  it's [TS]

  it's pushing the limits of the file [TS]

  system and if you ever get any sort of [TS]

  corruption in that directory you're not [TS]

  just losing the contents of that [TS]

  directory the content of that directory [TS]

  applied to the entire disk scary things [TS]

  like that are because they had to hack [TS]

  the implementation of hard links in that [TS]

  particular manner now there are actually [TS]

  advantages to this hacking [TS]

  implementation for example it's very [TS]

  fast much faster than it is on most [TS]

  modern file systems to enumerate all the [TS]

  hard disk hard links on a disk because [TS]

  they're all in that same directory and [TS]

  in fact base press Plus actually stores [TS]

  some more information where you can from [TS]

  a particular file trace it back to all [TS]

  the other files that are hard link for [TS]

  another thing it's very difficult to do [TS]

  in traditional UNIX file system so [TS]

  they've taken advantage of their hacky [TS]

  implementations when they could but it's [TS]

  still not ideal and it's not the way you [TS]

  would probably do it if you didn't have [TS]

  to retrofit a feature to an existing [TS]

  file system of that breaking binary [TS]

  compatibility so that's why I spent all [TS]

  this time in this review talking about [TS]

  HFS+ giving concrete details and saying [TS]

  trying to express to regular people [TS]

  here's why we need a new file system and [TS]

  the thing I would want out of a new file [TS]

  system is number one better reliability [TS]

  I'd like to run a Mac for a year and [TS]

  then run some disk checker on it and [TS]

  have this checker say of course [TS]

  everything's fine because our software [TS]

  is correct and bug free and the only [TS]

  reason you're going to have a problem in [TS]

  this file system where we have [TS]

  inconsistent metadata is if there's a [TS]

  hardware problem like I don't want [TS]

  software problems to cause this is [TS]

  supposed to be the promise of things [TS]

  like the data journaling metadata [TS]

  journaling log structured file systems [TS]

  you know if there's some sort of [TS]

  horrible crash and or someone Yanks out [TS]

  the plug on the computer I'm okay with [TS]

  losing whatever two or three files were [TS]

  in flight at that time but when the [TS]

  Machine comes back up I want the [TS]

  internal structures of the file system [TS]

  to be consistent with with each other [TS]

  even if it's missing some data it [TS]

  shouldn't be corrupted because that kind [TS]

  of corruption if you allow it to [TS]

  accumulate you've seen this happen on [TS]

  people's Mac swear that they'll just be [TS]

  using a laptop for years and years and [TS]

  all of a sudden one day it won't boot it [TS]

  will be missing some file and it's not a [TS]

  hardware problem the hardware is just [TS]

  fine it's just the accumulation of HFS+ [TS]

  metadata corruption has gotten to the [TS]

  point where now they've lost a bunch of [TS]

  data or need to recover with this quarry [TS]

  or some other tool or it's I don't think [TS]

  that should happen anymore and in modern [TS]

  file systems [TS]

  that you will be much more resilient [TS]

  this type of thing and the second thing [TS]

  I talk about which this this is not just [TS]

  hfs+ I would fault every existing modern [TS]

  file system except for maybe ZFS and a [TS]

  few other ones is that file systems tend [TS]

  to trust the hardware stack implicitly [TS]

  they trust that when the application [TS]

  says write this bit sequence to a file [TS]

  and sends it off through the IO layer [TS]

  they trusted that actually happened and [TS]

  the next time they say read me this [TS]

  region of that file that I just wrote [TS]

  they assume the stuff that comes off the [TS]

  disk is what they wrote before but they [TS]

  don't check they don't say well you know [TS]

  but they have no idea like you've you [TS]

  know three days later you've rebooted [TS]

  the computer three times when you read [TS]

  that section of that file that you wrote [TS]

  earlier you don't know what you wrote [TS]

  earlier so the application certainly [TS]

  can't check that it's correct it just [TS]

  implicitly accepts it oh well so the the [TS]

  disk and i/o subsystem fed me back this [TS]

  data this must be what's in the file and [TS]

  maybe this what's in the file but is it [TS]

  what you wrote before you don't know and [TS]

  what why would it not be why would why [TS]

  would the data be mismatched well there [TS]

  there can be firmware errors with the [TS]

  the firmware for the i/o system like the [TS]

  SATA chip or a raid chip or any other [TS]

  type of thing that's between you and [TS]

  your disk the disk itself can have [TS]

  hardware problems where some bits get [TS]

  flipped one way or the other [TS]

  and people I said well that's that's [TS]

  paranoia that doesn't happen that much [TS]

  the the incidence of hardware problems [TS]

  causing data to come off the disk and [TS]

  being correct or so incredibly rare so [TS]

  there's been a lot of studies on how [TS]

  rare is this actually and in large data [TS]

  centers or server farms or other places [TS]

  that have lots of disks lots of i/o and [TS]

  it is rare but the volume of data that [TS]

  we have is increasing so much that as [TS]

  rare as it is you know it's like if you [TS]

  have if you have a 1 million you know if [TS]

  there's only a one in a million chance [TS]

  of something that means like 300 people [TS]

  in China could do it or whatever [TS]

  I'm bad at math here but one in a [TS]

  million sounds like a lot but when [TS]

  there's billions of people in China [TS]

  wondering a million you have a lot of [TS]

  selection if that's your choice so if [TS]

  there's a one in three billion chance [TS]

  but disks suddenly expand to hold [TS]

  hundreds of billions of bytes suddenly [TS]

  it's starting to become a little bit [TS]

  more likely and that's what's happening [TS]

  with storage everywhere the amount of [TS]

  storage we have is just going up up up [TS]

  everywhere our storage is going up and [TS]

  we're storing things that are [TS]

  increasingly precious to us like our [TS]

  family photos and movies which are [TS]

  irreplaceable priceless and we don't [TS]

  have hard [TS]

  copies of because everyone has digital [TS]

  cameras and takes digital video and as [TS]

  many backups as you have I'll just make [TS]

  back observing well if this corruption [TS]

  on your disk and you make a backup of it [TS]

  you're just making a backup of the [TS]

  corruption you know like if the if that [TS]

  picture of your favorite picture of your [TS]

  son or daughter is if the couple bites [TS]

  got screwed up onto it because of a [TS]

  hardware problem on your disk and you [TS]

  make a backup of it when you ask the [TS]

  disk for those bytes it's going to give [TS]

  you the corrupted scrambled bytes so now [TS]

  you have a backup of it and say you have [TS]

  that backup and you push it through [TS]

  backup online because you're using an [TS]

  online backup service and you do the [TS]

  whole thing that we talked about in the [TS]

  backup vortex thing all you're doing is [TS]

  propagating the corruption to all of [TS]

  your backups possibly wiping out all [TS]

  diversions that weren't corrupt because [TS]

  eventually you know old versions of [TS]

  files even if your backup service holds [TS]

  old versions like Time Machine holds old [TS]

  versions and some online ones have a [TS]

  limited window of old versions [TS]

  eventually your corruption will push out [TS]

  all the old versions and then two years [TS]

  later when you try to make a slideshow [TS]

  let me look at the picture of my child [TS]

  when you know when he or she was a [TS]

  toddler and you look at that one [TS]

  favorite picture and it's all scrambled [TS]

  you're screwed and it's all because the [TS]

  i/o system in the operating system in [TS]

  the file system did no verification that [TS]

  the data that it wrote really was data [TS]

  that got stored there this is one thing [TS]

  the biggest selling point of ZFS is that [TS]

  it has provable data integrity where it [TS]

  does not trust the hardware to do the [TS]

  right thing it confirms that it has done [TS]

  the right thing with a series of check [TS]

  sums at various levels in the stack and [TS]

  you say well so so what but it does [TS]

  these check sums and now it knows it as [TS]

  an error why is why is that helpful to [TS]

  me [TS]

  well because ZFS will tell you that [TS]

  there's corruption and it has strategies [TS]

  that you can do to to mitigate that so [TS]

  one strategy is it can do a thing called [TS]

  diddle blocks where it writes the same [TS]

  data to multiple locations either on [TS]

  multiple disks or even on the same disk [TS]

  it can write the same data to multiple [TS]

  locations so that if one version of that [TS]

  data is corrupt it will still have a [TS]

  good version it can repair itself and [TS]

  heal itself if it tries to heal itself [TS]

  on the healing fails then it can sit [TS]

  they can make alert you and say hey this [TS]

  disk where you're storing stuff it's not [TS]

  doing what we're telling it to we told [TS]

  the store of the sequence of bytes when [TS]

  we did the checksum it's not storing [TS]

  them it's giving us back some different [TS]

  data and we tried to fix it and we [TS]

  couldn't from our ditto block or [TS]

  whatever so you should do something [TS]

  about that so you'll be alerted [TS]

  or you you know you could be alerted in [TS]

  Apple's implementation the file system [TS]

  can tell you this [TS]

  devices is failing and it has a problem [TS]

  you should do something about it now and [TS]

  that will alert you in time to not have [TS]

  the backup copy of this data propagate [TS]

  across all your backups across all times [TS]

  across all your 30-day window of [TS]

  whatever you're keeping you can do [TS]

  something about it at that point instead [TS]

  of just silently going everywhere and [TS]

  corrupting everything and of course they [TS]

  can do multi volume raid type situations [TS]

  where it spreads your data over multiple [TS]

  discs then you have real protection [TS]

  because I can say this this is going bad [TS]

  you could just yank out the disk throw [TS]

  in another one and it will you know [TS]

  refill with the data this is the type of [TS]

  thing that I think is not a frill and [TS]

  not a silly thing that only servers need [TS]

  that eventually it should be a required [TS]

  feature of all devices that store [TS]

  digital data that they should not trust [TS]

  the hardware they should be trust but [TS]

  verify [TS]

  they should have check sums in every [TS]

  piece of data that they put on to [TS]

  permanent storage and confirm that [TS]

  they're correct and if they're not [TS]

  notify the user and HFS+ so lien doesn't [TS]

  do that and neither do many other file [TS]

  systems with ZFS does so those are the [TS]

  two those are the two Biggie's on HFS [TS]

  it's and notice I didn't even list [TS]

  performance or anything like that which [TS]

  their big issue there as well but but [TS]

  there's reliability don't don't corrupt [TS]

  yourself there's no hardware problem I [TS]

  don't want the file system self screwing [TS]

  up and then there is data integrity [TS]

  which they're totally not touching at [TS]

  all do something about data integrity if [TS]

  it has to be there performance is the [TS]

  third one where there's lots of really [TS]

  silly things that HFS does in terms of [TS]

  performance that are not up to snuff [TS]

  alarm the biggest one is that like if [TS]

  anyone is writing to an H of S Plus disk [TS]

  it's one at a time you can't have [TS]

  concurrent writes so if any other [TS]

  process wants to write something has to [TS]

  wait because it's one big global lock on [TS]

  the entire catalog file of a metadata [TS]

  for the entire volume that is just [TS]

  ridiculous in an age of 18 cores you [TS]

  know you imagine you have like a big [TS]

  raid setup that appears as a single hfs+ [TS]

  volume you have 17 spindles you can only [TS]

  write to one at once because because the [TS]

  file system says well I've got the [TS]

  global lock nobody else can right right [TS]

  wait [TS]

  pretty hard yeah so all this I don't [TS]

  know what Apple is going to do in this [TS]

  area I'd ZFS plus the right choice but [TS]

  maybe it isn't especially with SSDs like [TS]

  the performance tree [TS]

  office of SSDs versus spinning disks are [TS]

  very different so it seems like if Apple [TS]

  ever did make a next-generation file [TS]

  system or adopt one from elsewhere it [TS]

  should be designed with SSDs in mind and [TS]

  not spinning disks in mind because that [TS]

  is clearly the future so whatever they [TS]

  do it could look very different from [TS]

  even from any existing file system but I [TS]

  think they need to do something [TS]

  eventually and I don't think they can [TS]

  get there by continuing to retrofit [TS]

  stuff on to HFS+ forever and ever [TS]

  because it's already kind of creaking [TS]

  under its own weight [TS]

  Oh that'd be good title creaking under [TS]

  its own weight [TS]

  maybe so that's it though John we get [TS]

  her we get a wrap this Anna I'm 84 [TS]

  minutes allowed to I'm allowed to bump [TS]

  Gruber now because I got more downloads [TS]

  in his show so he just I could just [TS]

  start talking forever and you just sit [TS]

  there twiddling his thumbs [TS]

  don't tell I'll tell him you said that [TS]

  yeah it's good to next week good to be [TS]

  king right yeah I saw what briefly I saw [TS]

  a lot of people in the chat room asking [TS]

  for Ark despite you not wanting to talk [TS]

  about it maybe next week we will [TS]

  actually talk about Ark despite Dan [TS]

  being tired of that topic alright so but [TS]

  yeah so you're gonna be available next [TS]

  week oh no not next week s last last [TS]

  week lads it was a tease because last [TS]

  week you said no no I'm on vacation and [TS]

  we talked about that and here you are [TS]

  stubbornly not going anywhere yeah no I [TS]

  was confused about the dates so this [TS]

  week I'm here next week I thought it was [TS]

  impossible for a Vulcan to make a [TS]

  mistake I'm not a Vulcan Romulan [TS]

  whatever I'm not even into Star Trek [TS]

  come on Star Wars [TS]

  I'm a Star Wars guy alright we'll figure [TS]

  you not mentioned it's hard to know you [TS]

  change it up every week I don't I'm [TS]

  consistent well we'll do we'll do [TS]

  something all right can follow you can [TS]

  follow John and you should follow him on [TS]

  Twitter at siracusa nosy si RAC USA [TS]

  siracusa [TS]

  i'm dan benjamin on twitter we're very [TS]

  glad and john wants you to go rate the [TS]

  show so even though he get to the [TS]

  downloads he doesn't get the rating so [TS]

  this is what you do you go to itunes you [TS]

  sign in you you find hypercritical and [TS]

  you give it a five star rating do you [TS]

  want your return do you want reviews or [TS]

  just ratings or you don't care both [TS]

  preferably but if you just want to do [TS]

  rating that's fine but reviews are [TS]

  always nice so that's what you do you go [TS]

  there and do that you go to 5 by 5 TV to [TS]

  to check out all the other shows that we [TS]

  do and you can tune in live sometimes to [TS]

  get freebies like you did today 5 by 5 [TS]

  that TV slash live there's a link to the [TS]

  schedule so you can see when we're doing [TS]

  it and I John I hope you have a great [TS]

  vacation we won't see you next week but [TS]

  when you get back we'll try and do a [TS]

  makeup episode and sounds good sure [TS]

  alright yep [TS]

  have a good one [TS]

  you [TS]