Hypercritical

26: White Smoke

 

  [Music] [TS]

  this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect that it can't be complained [TS]

  about by the host of this show John [TS]

  siracusa I know him from Ars Technica [TS]

  and elsewhere and by me I'm Dan Benjamin [TS]

  we would like to say thanks very much to [TS]

  fresh books calm and shopify calm for [TS]

  making this show possible and also like [TS]

  to mention that bandwidth for this [TS]

  episode of hypercritical has been [TS]

  provided by Midas green technologies [TS]

  Virtual Private servers submerged in oil [TS]

  seriously check them out and Midas green [TS]

  tech dot-com how are you today Jon big [TS]

  week for you well may or may be not I [TS]

  don't think so [TS]

  you're saying that you're saying it's [TS]

  good next week is the week ah yeah [TS]

  that's what I heard [TS]

  that's delivery and fourth hand rumored [TS]

  but the story I've got is that no Lian [TS]

  this week I thought it was gonna be [TS]

  yesterday obviously it wasn't and what [TS]

  I've heard is that it's not gonna be [TS]

  this week do we have a reason why no [TS]

  this is I'm very far removed from these [TS]

  rumors but by the time they get to me [TS]

  all I get is not this week that's uh you [TS]

  know I'm just gonna be honest I'm [TS]

  disappointed in so am i I hoped it would [TS]

  be yesterday I'm not disappointed in now [TS]

  I'm disappointed in you for not [TS]

  understanding why and warning me oh for [TS]

  not understand so what is the day you're [TS]

  hearing now the nineteenth now I hear I [TS]

  have no date rumored all I know is not [TS]

  this week and I only know that vaguely [TS]

  third hand so I don't know I don't know [TS]

  what they're waiting for but that's [TS]

  that's actually one of our follow-up [TS]

  talk topics so is it [TS]

  yeah well it's vaguely follow-up related [TS]

  I have a whole bunch of all up today and [TS]

  we do have the markdown thing as the [TS]

  main topic but I actually have enough [TS]

  follow-up to push that to another show [TS]

  if we really wanted to Wow so this could [TS]

  be an antenna see this is why I think we [TS]

  should I know you like [TS]

  compartmentalizing things I do I know [TS]

  that you do but my feeling is that if we [TS]

  stopped calling it follow-up and just [TS]

  talked that that is somehow it would be [TS]

  more freeing because if it's like oh [TS]

  well we did 90 minutes of follow-up well [TS]

  then it wasn't really follow [TS]

  was the main table it was just topics [TS]

  just topics that are perhaps recurring [TS]

  topics yeah how about this you call it [TS]

  follow up I'll call it recurring topics [TS]

  and we'll both be happy yeah there is a [TS]

  difference was follow up is supposed to [TS]

  be talking about things that have been [TS]

  discussed on past shows versus things [TS]

  that are just here something interesting [TS]

  in the news or an interesting topic that [TS]

  we've never talked about before I don't [TS]

  know why we have to make the [TS]

  differentiation I mean they don't have [TS]

  to make like I bet I'm willing to bet [TS]

  that you talk to your wife every every [TS]

  single day about the house or the kids [TS]

  or whatever you don't go to her oh honey [TS]

  I have some follow-up for you about da [TS]

  or son no you just didn't have [TS]

  follow-ups but shows have format well [TS]

  for me this is my life for me this is my [TS]

  show okay [TS]

  I like the follow-up all right fine [TS]

  follow him all right [TS]

  which again so the first one is a link [TS]

  that went around maybe one around last [TS]

  week and we just didn't get to her in [TS]

  the show it was a giggle story that was [TS]

  also linked on slash dot and the [TS]

  headline was Facebook trapped in my [TS]

  sequel fate worse than death or MySQL [TS]

  fate worse than death if you want to go [TS]

  that way and the gist of the story was [TS]

  that Facebook had sort of bit off more [TS]

  that it could chew with its number of [TS]

  mice equal instances this is a quote [TS]

  from the thing it says that Facebook has [TS]

  split its my sequel database into four [TS]

  thousand shards and all order to handle [TS]

  the site's massive data volume and is [TS]

  running nine thousand instances of [TS]

  memcache or memcache D in order to keep [TS]

  up with the number of transactions the [TS]

  database must serve now this is all not [TS]

  from Facebook officially but it's from [TS]

  someone named Michael Stonebraker which [TS]

  is a great name stone breaker is [TS]

  apparently one of the one of the guys [TS]

  behind ingress really old relational [TS]

  database system that eventually spawned [TS]

  Postgres and he's gone had done a bunch [TS]

  of other database related projects he's [TS]

  been a professor at the University of [TS]

  California Berkeley I believe and his [TS]

  current business is another database [TS]

  company called vault DB he's the [TS]

  co-founder and CTO of that company so [TS]

  the slash just on this thread was well [TS]

  what a surprise somebody from a [TS]

  competing database [TS]

  says that Facebook is screwed because [TS]

  they use my sequel right and the other [TS]

  gist of this story well get the reason [TS]

  it's in the fall because we talked about [TS]

  how Facebook was what they were doing [TS]

  for scaling and they were the one who [TS]

  was taking taking existing open source [TS]

  off-the-shelf software and bending it to [TS]

  their needs so they use PHP which is off [TS]

  the shelf but they've done all sorts of [TS]

  crazy things with it I've since heard [TS]

  that they are they have stopped [TS]

  supposedly compiling PHP into C++ but I [TS]

  haven't heard what they've replaced it [TS]

  with I don't know if that's true but any [TS]

  write they use PHP apparently they use [TS]

  my sequel I hadn't seen that part of the [TS]

  story denied but they're using it at [TS]

  just a massive scale so I mean a one my [TS]

  sequel database instance is fine [TS]

  splitting it up into ten or twenty [TS]

  shards fine but when you have four [TS]

  thousand shards and you need nine [TS]

  thousand memcache servers to you know so [TS]

  you don't hit the my sequel databases as [TS]

  much that's pretty darn big so so the [TS]

  slash comments were that this guy has a [TS]

  complex of interest obviously because [TS]

  he's from a competing database thing but [TS]

  the most convincing argument I saw [TS]

  against this article was that Facebook [TS]

  works you know we're saying you're using [TS]

  my sequel you're really screwed because [TS]

  when you get to the large scale it's not [TS]

  going to work well who's larger scale [TS]

  than Facebook they have like 700 million [TS]

  users and it may be a horrible ugly hack [TS]

  but the bottom line is they took this [TS]

  thing this crappy database and I'm not a [TS]

  big my sequel fan I like Postgres way [TS]

  better well they took this this crappy [TS]

  open source thing and you know through [TS]

  force of will and engineering and money [TS]

  they made it work for them at the [TS]

  highest scale you could possibly be at I [TS]

  mean who's who's doing something are you [TS]

  going to tell them if you're really big [TS]

  you're in trouble who's bigger than them [TS]

  so it's an interesting case of you know [TS]

  this guy the Stonebraker guy I'm sure he [TS]

  knows what he's doing I'm sure volt DB [TS]

  is great I love Postgres I like it so [TS]

  much better than my sequel his his [TS]

  technical knowledge is completely sound [TS]

  I'm sure in theory he's right [TS]

  but in practice he's got a database [TS]

  product that nobody is using at this [TS]

  scale and my sequel has is used at the [TS]

  biggest scale possible albeit in [TS]

  probably a horrible crappy [TS]

  way that is fragile and right [TS]

  to blow up at any second but that's [TS]

  probably true of all Facebook is that [TS]

  it's just a gigantic pile of crap at [TS]

  this point it's amazing that it stays up [TS]

  but it does you know so you can't you [TS]

  can't tell someone that their choice of [TS]

  Technology is a deal breaker when when [TS]

  they're actually using it and at the [TS]

  scale that you've been warning them [TS]

  about that's fine to bring that star [TS]

  back up I just thought it was kind of [TS]

  funny although I am rooting for volt DB [TS]

  or any other alternatives because [TS]

  relational databases they're great and [TS]

  all but no one has really figured out [TS]

  the magic scaling fairy dust I think I [TS]

  don't know if Stonebraker was the author [TS]

  of this paper but is that the cap theory [TS]

  of scaling you ever heard of that see ap [TS]

  maybe you can explain it I don't think [TS]

  I've heard of that one [TS]

  I I don't have it in my notes I have to [TS]

  go over memory so it's it's basically [TS]

  saying what are this who in the chat [TS]

  room can bring this up see is for like [TS]

  consistency [TS]

  P is for network partitioning and maybe [TS]

  one of them is for a is for availability [TS]

  it's basically saying that you can't [TS]

  have all three of those things if you [TS]

  want two of them you have to sacrifice [TS]

  one of them so I wanted nicer than that [TS]

  if you want to be resilient to network [TS]

  partitions like you you lose network [TS]

  connections between the hosts then you [TS]

  can't have one of the other two of them [TS]

  you can't have consistency everywhere or [TS]

  you can have you know 100% availability [TS]

  and so on and so forth so it's all about [TS]

  trading off yet so so people the [TS]

  chatroom is said its availability [TS]

  consistency and partition tolerance [TS]

  partition tolerance so really there [TS]

  should be a T at the end of it but it's [TS]

  harder to say it's just a nice way to [TS]

  think about like it's a nice formalized [TS]

  way to think about what are the [TS]

  trade-offs between [TS]

  having like an Oracle RAC cluster where [TS]

  you have a bunch of machines running a [TS]

  relational database versus something [TS]

  that's like eventually consistent where [TS]

  you may not see the latest data right [TS]

  away but eventually you will and it's [TS]

  distributed and resilient and always [TS]

  available that you you know it's the [TS]

  various trade-offs of how to scale data [TS]

  out and this is a problem that's really [TS]

  not solved which is why there's so much [TS]

  activity that's there you've got a [TS]

  CouchDB MongoDB volt DB there's even a [TS]

  menace and something else to projects [TS]

  for making persistent versions of [TS]

  memcache deep it's like the same [TS]

  interface to it but instead of but when [TS]

  you pull the plug the data doesn't go [TS]

  away it's on disk somewhere a whole [TS]

  bunch of the and the no sequel databases [TS]

  that you know a couple of them I just [TS]

  mentioned plus there's [TS]

  the stuff that Google's got internally [TS]

  and HBase and you know all sorts of [TS]

  things this is not a solve problem so [TS]

  it's it's I wish it was a solved problem [TS]

  relational databases were solve problem [TS]

  and Postgres if you want a relational [TS]

  database Postgres is like the pinnacle [TS]

  of evolution of epics it's free open [TS]

  source you know [TS]

  non-commercial you don't have to pay a [TS]

  million dollars to Oracle for it and [TS]

  it's a great relational database so if [TS]

  you want a relational database there's [TS]

  one for you but relational databases are [TS]

  heavily on the side of consistency and [TS]

  are very far away from you know Network [TS]

  partition tolerance and and availability [TS]

  and on the internet the trade-off seems [TS]

  to be in the other direction where they [TS]

  want it to be available and they wanted [TS]

  to be resilient to network failures but [TS]

  if things are not consistent right away [TS]

  that's okay for like your Facebook page [TS]

  or you know something like that maybe [TS]

  not for banking transactions which is [TS]

  why the banks still use relational [TS]

  databases but this is not a solved [TS]

  problem and it's a very interesting area [TS]

  and I wish someone would solve it [TS]

  because it would be great if my [TS]

  grandkids when they go to start their [TS]

  technology start they say oh and we'll [TS]

  just use this for our data storage and [TS]

  we know that it scales infinitely and we [TS]

  don't have to tweak it and we don't have [TS]

  to worry about I would just Chuck our [TS]

  data into it and as big as we get we'll [TS]

  be fine but that day is not here yet [TS]

  that was another link in the show notes [TS]

  that I'm assuming you put there about [TS]

  the Google+ thing we asked anything yeah [TS]

  there was a Google engineer showed up [TS]

  and said ask me anything and it was [TS]

  specific to the infrastructure behind [TS]

  Google and I thought that that sort of [TS]

  touched on one of the topics that you [TS]

  brought up which was not so much an [TS]

  infrastructure one as a software one as [TS]

  far as Howard Howard how is this working [TS]

  how is it scaling he kind of addressed [TS]

  that yeah I read through it as I skimmed [TS]

  through most of it I read the questions [TS]

  that piqued my interest it's actually [TS]

  more of a follow-up to what you talked [TS]

  about and build and analyze with marco [TS]

  because he was saying yeah he was [TS]

  wondering like how we were generating [TS]

  the source code because he had to parse [TS]

  it on with Instapaper [TS]

  but was obviously machine generated not [TS]

  human generated in that QA they talked a [TS]

  lot about what they used client-side and [TS]

  a little bit of what language they wrote [TS]

  the application in like I said they use [TS]

  Java and they didn't use GWT but they [TS]

  never talked about what exists on the [TS]

  server side they didn't say where what [TS]

  they're using for data storage [TS]

  what their data model is or how their [TS]

  servers are distributed or how they [TS]

  communicate or anything like that in [TS]

  typical Google fashion they will tell [TS]

  you that we use the closure Java [TS]

  compiler which we released as open [TS]

  sourced it's really good great you [TS]

  should try it and they'll tell you if [TS]

  they use GWT and they'll tell you they [TS]

  use Java or if they use their go [TS]

  language they don't use go apparently [TS]

  and this but nothing about what the [TS]

  server side looks like so Google [TS]

  continues to protect its its crown [TS]

  jewels by not talking about them in any [TS]

  particular detail but does talk about [TS]

  the client-side stuff which I guess it [TS]

  wants to spread because it wants web [TS]

  applications to be as good as they can [TS]

  be so it's Google's tools advantage to [TS]

  share the love about writing web [TS]

  applications in terms of the client side [TS]

  but the server side still keeping close [TS]

  to the best so next item here is a show [TS]

  bot show bot Emmy yeah from Jeremy Mac [TS]

  he did a nice post to his blog [TS]

  explaining the origins of show bots and [TS]

  how he the IRC throttling business and [TS]

  how he rewrote it and where it's hosted [TS]

  and so on and so forth so I put that in [TS]

  the show notes people should follow that [TS]

  I wholeheartedly endorse the show bot [TS]

  Emmy website versus the horribly [TS]

  throttled IRC thing yeah [TS]

  well let's oh hold on let's take a step [TS]

  back because right right now this is [TS]

  like super meta and we need to kind of [TS]

  unfold this a little bit so for the [TS]

  people who only listen to this show as a [TS]

  podcast as an audio thing that they [TS]

  download or even for the people who [TS]

  listen live but don't know there is a [TS]

  what we refer to as a chat room and the [TS]

  chat room if you go to five by five dot [TS]

  TV slash live there's a little button a [TS]

  little link there that says chat room or [TS]

  something I should know what it says [TS]

  because I wrote the page but I can't [TS]

  remember and it essentially initiates [TS]

  within your web browser a connection to [TS]

  the 5x5 IRC channel on freenode net so [TS]

  if you happen to be a true geek and you [TS]

  like to use IRC independently not in a [TS]

  web client you can just go to freenode [TS]

  then join the channel the 5x5 channel [TS]

  there we'd love to have you and during [TS]

  the show these people communicate with [TS]

  us and they correct all the mistakes [TS]

  that we make or I make and give us [TS]

  little links and other interesting [TS]

  things and you know it's it's it's sort [TS]

  of the you know [TS]

  chat room it's the chat we love those [TS]

  people the Nerds in there and uh [TS]

  periodically people would come up with [TS]

  the title suggestions and things and [TS]

  comments and other things that would be [TS]

  relevant to the show or people would say [TS]

  hey well when is the show going live or [TS]

  whatever and this this kid who is this [TS]

  kid Jeremy he said you know what I'm [TS]

  going to write this this bot and the bot [TS]

  is going to sit in the channel and [TS]

  listen and it'll answer people's [TS]

  questions it'll collect title [TS]

  suggestions that people make in the [TS]

  charrids great and this is the story [TS]

  this is the story of show bots and the [TS]

  new show botany website it's a beautiful [TS]

  thing and the last show we were [TS]

  complaining about how it was very slow [TS]

  and doling out the titles afterwards [TS]

  because of IRC throttling so that's why [TS]

  that's what's website gets around the [TS]

  website loads immediately you can see [TS]

  all the titles and it's a cute little [TS]

  format with speech bubbles and it [TS]

  divides it up by show so it knows when [TS]

  the shows start and starts collecting [TS]

  titles for that show it's great it's [TS]

  great feature Oh [TS]

  next thing I have is it's about about [TS]

  lion I mean we're both disappointed that [TS]

  line wasn't out yeah I still blame you [TS]

  for that I think they got wind of your [TS]

  of your article coming and they said not [TS]

  so fast John oh but I hate when that [TS]

  happens because now now my article which [TS]

  is done and edited and copy edited it's [TS]

  just sitting there [TS]

  aging and I'm out here knowing first of [TS]

  all I know there's tons of things that I [TS]

  didn't include in the article no matter [TS]

  how long a review is there's always [TS]

  stuff that gets left out sure one of the [TS]

  inevitable comments it's always like [TS]

  this is too long and boring that's [TS]

  obvious comment in the second comment is [TS]

  why didn't you talk about block whatever [TS]

  blah is whatever thing they're [TS]

  interested in is just you cannot talk [TS]

  about everything it's in an operating [TS]

  system released I have to pick the [TS]

  things that are interesting to me and [TS]

  that the worst part is when people [TS]

  describe my reviews as comprehensive [TS]

  they're anything but comprehensive [TS]

  comprehensive implies that they cover [TS]

  everything that there is to cover on the [TS]

  operating system they do not do that [TS]

  they cover what I think are the most [TS]

  important topics and cover them in lots [TS]

  of depth so they're thorough you could [TS]

  say the thorough if you if you think of [TS]

  the thoroughness as how deep is each [TS]

  topic that I talked about explored but [TS]

  they're not comprehensive tons of things [TS]

  are not covered at all not even [TS]

  mentioned and you have a section at the [TS]

  end of all of our reviews called [TS]

  grab-bag where I just throw out random [TS]

  stuff that I found so what I usually do [TS]

  is right up to the point where it's [TS]

  published I'm throwing stuff into that [TS]

  grab bag where it's like oh here's [TS]

  something else I forgot or I go through [TS]

  my notes oh I forgot to mention this [TS]

  this is a neat feature or maybe I should [TS]

  throw that in there this would make a [TS]

  good screenshot just the little things [TS]

  you know and I used to be able to put in [TS]

  tons of those little things so that if [TS]

  like if I saw any other little things [TS]

  out there on the web of people looking [TS]

  at pre releases or whatever I collect [TS]

  them in my notes and put them in there [TS]

  but now I'm holding off on editing [TS]

  because the process those sort of the [TS]

  workflow process at ours where it goes [TS]

  through editing and copy editing and now [TS]

  it's being transformed into other forms [TS]

  think they're doing you know they have [TS]

  the PDF version ebook versions stuff [TS]

  that's also much more formalized and [TS]

  that and the people are still working on [TS]

  that workflow and if I start editing the [TS]

  original at this point I'm screwing them [TS]

  up is they have to start there you know [TS]

  it's not it's not automated a lot of it [TS]

  is done by hand and people are doing it [TS]

  so I'm not free to randomly add stuff to [TS]

  the review but I have things that I [TS]

  could add to it like just you know just [TS]

  little things here or there mostly for [TS]

  the grab bag section and there's a [TS]

  couple of major features that I would [TS]

  have covered if I had more time but it's [TS]

  it's got it's not like a print deadline [TS]

  but it's kind of like that and that [TS]

  you're once you enter the machinery of [TS]

  the publishing process you're not free [TS]

  to edit not free dude keep writing it [TS]

  stop writing at some point you have to [TS]

  some point yet the ship so I've picked [TS]

  that point basically and yesterday I [TS]

  think it made my last edit to the the [TS]

  article which is just some a few wording [TS]

  changes here and there [TS]

  after the copy editing was done and so [TS]

  that's it this is what it's going to be [TS]

  so inevitably when the review comes out [TS]

  people are going to say why don't you [TS]

  talk about this or I read this elsewhere [TS]

  and this review is supposed to be [TS]

  comprehensive why didn't use it doesn't [TS]

  have everything no no one review has [TS]

  anything a Mac os10 is just too big for [TS]

  that what I hope I did is I covered the [TS]

  these parts that I thought were most [TS]

  significant about Lion and a few of the [TS]

  more esoteric technical parts that I [TS]

  found interesting and that's all I can [TS]

  hope to do so if people are disappointed [TS]

  because I didn't cover your favorite [TS]

  feature or didn't complain about the [TS]

  thing that annoys you and I guess we'll [TS]

  talk about this more when the review is [TS]

  published but the reason it comes up on [TS]

  this follow-up topic is that part of the [TS]

  one of the reasons that I think perhaps [TS]

  that line could be delayed because at [TS]

  this point I don't think they're going [TS]

  to have another GMC [TS]

  because they announce to developers like [TS]

  hey do you want your stuff to be on on [TS]

  the Mac App Store build it with our [TS]

  current GM see the lion and submit it to [TS]

  us so they're basically asking for [TS]

  developers to use the GMC they have to [TS]

  build their Mac applications and send [TS]

  them to Apple for submission to the Mac [TS]

  App Store and I have a hard time [TS]

  believing Apple would say oh yeah feel [TS]

  free to build your applications on a [TS]

  pre-release version of the operating [TS]

  system and we'll put them in the nack [TS]

  App Store so it seems like this GM seed [TS]

  is going to be the actual GM right now [TS]

  but what you had said is that for those [TS]

  of us who have and I have not but for [TS]

  those of us who have installed this we [TS]

  are not going to be able to update so [TS]

  that when the first dot release or point [TS]

  update or whatever drops you're saying [TS]

  we won't be able to use software update [TS]

  to update the GM oh what I said was that [TS]

  you can't update to the gene you can't [TS]

  up you software update on any release [TS]

  that is not the final retail release bit [TS]

  for bit really yeah now if they declare [TS]

  that this GM seed is the actual GM and [TS]

  they release it to the Mac App Store [TS]

  without changing a single bit on it well [TS]

  then yeah you could you can but isn't [TS]

  that what you're saying that's what [TS]

  you're saying [TS]

  no because they could they could do [TS]

  something like for example in the past [TS]

  they've when they've declared an RC to [TS]

  be the release it's not bit for bit the [TS]

  same like the very least they'll change [TS]

  the software version plist which is [TS]

  buried down there just to change it to [TS]

  be you know ten point x point zero or [TS]

  whatever now historically they are in [TS]

  this most recent release they don't need [TS]

  to do that because I believe systems [TS]

  softs system version that plist does [TS]

  have ten seven zero in it but the bottom [TS]

  line is you don't know until you see [TS]

  something on the Mac App Store is every [TS]

  single bit of this identical to the one [TS]

  we have is the build number the same or [TS]

  all the the strings is saying the [TS]

  license agreement everything you know is [TS]

  it exactly the same software or did they [TS]

  do another sort of release build where [TS]

  they didn't recompile the software but [TS]

  they just change the metadata and the [TS]

  packaging and then distributed that so [TS]

  that's why I say wait one was if there's [TS]

  going to be another GM seed obviously [TS]

  you're screwed and the other is even if [TS]

  there's not another GM see that they [TS]

  changed something small about it it [TS]

  could be the software up they've all [TS]

  refused updated so because of the [TS]

  uncertainty I recommend it against doing [TS]

  that and just assuming that you'll be [TS]

  fine you can't assume that you'll be [TS]

  fine you might be but you might not so [TS]

  that's why I said don't upgrade but I [TS]

  was thinking what so if that's the case [TS]

  if this is if they're not going to have [TS]

  another GMC but what's the delay other [TS]

  than to make it so we can't talk about [TS]

  Lian for another week show is that there [TS]

  are new Hardware rumors right the [TS]

  hardware there's and there's a handful [TS]

  Hardware rumors not just that not just a [TS]

  couple first they came out with new I [TS]

  mean everybody's been talking about [TS]

  MacBook Airs being refreshed with the [TS]

  the Sandy Bridge and the Thunderbolt so [TS]

  that's that's been out there in the wild [TS]

  for a little while but then another [TS]

  rumor came well they're also getting [TS]

  lighted backlit keyboards and then we [TS]

  got a whole bunch of new serial numbers [TS]

  that they were saying oh these are for [TS]

  the new Mac Pros but it turns out [TS]

  they're there apparently not for Mac [TS]

  Pros they're for new the the white [TS]

  plastic Mac books and Mac minis and [TS]

  they're saying that the Mac Pros [TS]

  themselves will be updated in a few [TS]

  weeks - so you think that's what the [TS]

  holdup is if the GM they feel really [TS]

  good about it they're ready to go with [TS]

  it what could be the holdup the holdup [TS]

  is a hardware why not release the [TS]

  hardware our first sponsor today whom we [TS]

  would like to greatly thank for making [TS]

  this show possible as FreshBooks comm if [TS]

  you run your own business and rely on [TS]

  invoicing to get paid then you need to [TS]

  check out fresh books fresh books lets [TS]

  you focus on your actual work not [TS]

  paperwork it's just the fastest way to [TS]

  track time organized expenses and [TS]

  invoice your clients I use and I love it [TS]

  are you still retyping client addresses [TS]

  on invoices in word or manually [TS]

  calculating invoice totals in Excel you [TS]

  can just put all that stuff behind you [TS]

  when you think of accounting you know [TS]

  you have unorganized spreadsheets in a [TS]

  shoebox of receipts I'm telling you I [TS]

  know exactly what this is like if fresh [TS]

  books changed all of this for me I know [TS]

  will for you and for your business too [TS]

  and here's the cool part getting started [TS]

  is completely free you just go to fresh [TS]

  books calm you sign up for a free [TS]

  account and they're doing something [TS]

  special for five-by-five listeners [TS]

  they're going to give away and they've [TS]

  done this before they're continuing this [TS]

  they're giving away a birthday cake [TS]

  every week to somebody who signs up from [TS]

  this show all you need to do for a [TS]

  chance to win it is where they're asking [TS]

  you how you heard about us you enter in [TS]

  hypercritical and and know it doesn't [TS]

  have to be [TS]

  if they win you can still win a birthday [TS]

  cake check them out at FreshBooks [TS]

  dot-com what you think well finally they [TS]

  do believe that there that there will be [TS]

  some new hardware in our near future [TS]

  like it in a few days I don't know how [TS]

  many days I thought you said and I look [TS]

  air is obvious it needs to be updated [TS]

  you know but but when there's any kind [TS]

  of hardware rumor every hardware rumor [TS]

  gloms onto it's like you said is any [TS]

  machine you can think of you don't think [TS]

  I haven't heard is like new Mac and new [TS]

  iMacs right at least no one has said [TS]

  that because those were just updated [TS]

  with the Thunderbolt and everything uh [TS]

  basically Apple's gonna put I mean we [TS]

  know this Apple is going to put [TS]

  Thunderbolt on all all Macs they're all [TS]

  going to get it they're all going to get [TS]

  it it's a matter of when and what other [TS]

  updates are going to come along as part [TS]

  of that and end for delay reasons you [TS]

  could say well they're gonna want lion [TS]

  to ship on these new machines so even if [TS]

  it did go GM back when this was released [TS]

  on the 1st of July or whatever even if [TS]

  this was the official GM takes a while [TS]

  to get that you know the hardware [TS]

  manufacturing lead time to get that [TS]

  software on the machines to ship them [TS]

  out yet don't get it I've got to tweak [TS]

  whatever installation settings to make [TS]

  it just right and all the defaults for [TS]

  the particular system and then they've [TS]

  got to get a print those that they even [TS]

  ship they do ship with DVDs still a lot [TS]

  of them so to get a press those they've [TS]

  got oh yeah that'll be interesting to [TS]

  see will they come when you buy a [TS]

  machine comes with line will it come [TS]

  with a DVD I'll have to well obviously [TS]

  the air is won't they'll come with that [TS]

  little USB stick but you'd assume they [TS]

  have to but it kind of wouldn't be kind [TS]

  of weird that like you can't buy Lion on [TS]

  a DVD but if you buy a new Mac it comes [TS]

  with one well so here's here's the [TS]

  question that I have and this is this is [TS]

  the one topic that I had on my list that [TS]

  I absolutely wanted to talk to you about [TS]

  and that is this let lets say that I am [TS]

  sure that somewhere on this planet [TS]

  somebody has a small work group of Macs [TS]

  and they are not on a fiber connection [TS]

  to the end I mean I I know it's hard to [TS]

  believe but somewhere out there this [TS]

  exists and that person is saying you [TS]

  know what I would like to update these [TS]

  computers to lion and I can I can't [TS]

  because we don't have the right kind of [TS]

  internet connection that would make this [TS]

  possible or we don't have any internet [TS]

  connection we're a secret lab somewhere [TS]

  no no only one door whatever and how are [TS]

  they going to install this they can't [TS]

  you can't tell me that the Mac App Store [TS]

  is going to be the only way to update [TS]

  this that you won't be able to buy a DVD [TS]

  are you kidding [TS]

  that's what you're saying I know I don't [TS]

  think Apple announced that but I mean [TS]

  that's a bigger Thor is the only way to [TS]

  for you to buy Lion that's not obviously [TS]

  it comes with your new Mac so here's [TS]

  we're getting into a territory of my [TS]

  review but I have a whole page on this [TS]

  but I'm planning to read this review do [TS]

  we do a dramatic reading of your review [TS]

  by the way we'll get to that later all [TS]

  right so yeah so I think I don't know [TS]

  what the physical media situation is [TS]

  going to be but the bottom line is I [TS]

  don't think Apple Apple has to get this [TS]

  thing onto the new machines because they [TS]

  don't want to ship machines now they'd [TS]

  have Snow Leopard on them if they're [TS]

  brand new they have to be coming with [TS]

  line so the most interesting rumor that [TS]

  I saw here also most likely to be false [TS]

  was the rumor about Mac Pro's this is [TS]

  when they thought the back when I [TS]

  thought the serial numbers were for Mac [TS]

  Pros and other things before they [TS]

  discovered the serial numbers weren't I [TS]

  don't know if I even believe either one [TS]

  of those that the serial numbers were [TS]

  for Mac Pro's or that they're now [TS]

  determined not to be it's just that [TS]

  those rumors are extremely sketchy but [TS]

  the discussion of the Mac Pros and [TS]

  whether they need to be updated and what [TS]

  that update might look like is eternally [TS]

  interesting to me especially since I [TS]

  believe the current Mac Pro's external [TS]

  design has been with us for eight years [TS]

  is it eight all right yeah because it's [TS]

  well it started with the g5 yeah our [TS]

  side office eight years but it's some [TS]

  ridiculously long amount of time that [TS]

  that machine has not been refreshed [TS]

  externally inside the inside they've [TS]

  changed a lot obviously used to have [TS]

  PowerPC chips but everything about the [TS]

  inside what where the motherboard is [TS]

  where the RAM is where the drives are [TS]

  how many drives there are almost [TS]

  everything about it has been changed [TS]

  inside but the outside it kind of looks [TS]

  the same so the rumor the almost [TS]

  certainly false rumor from days ago this [TS]

  is from nine to five Mac was that it [TS]

  would have a redesigning closure that's [TS]

  narrower and rack-mountable and 16 core [TS]

  CPUs and Thunderbolt and blah blah blah [TS]

  happy I hadn't heard that around far [TS]

  right recommendable seems like it's such [TS]

  a crazy pipe dream they just killed the [TS]

  XOR why in the world would they produce [TS]

  another rack mountable computer but not [TS]

  outside you know they could say well the [TS]

  XR [TS]

  was an enterprise computer but this is [TS]

  actually just a Mac Pro that's squished [TS]

  well this kind of enters into the and [TS]

  this put this happens every time every [TS]

  time that they're sort of rumors out [TS]

  there lurking if if the rumors aren't [TS]

  answered promptly by whatever the new [TS]

  release is that's initially creating and [TS]

  generating the rumors [TS]

  if there isn't a swift response like the [TS]

  rumors come out and then six days later [TS]

  Apple has the the release then you start [TS]

  getting all these weird now I think it [TS]

  would be great I mean if you're asking [TS]

  me what would I like to have of course [TS]

  I'd love to have a have a Mac Pro that I [TS]

  could slap a you know a slider on each [TS]

  end of it and just rackmount the thing I [TS]

  mean would that be great that'd be [TS]

  perfect of course and yeah this this [TS]

  ancient net you know in computer terms [TS]

  ancient enclosure yeah it's a great [TS]

  enclosure but you know it Apple is [TS]

  really really pushing limits of what you [TS]

  can do with space so why don't we have a [TS]

  smaller enclosure do we need all that [TS]

  space still you know no we don't let's [TS]

  make it smaller let's let's let's be [TS]

  inventive with with the way that we do [TS]

  it I mean look at the Mac Mini something [TS]

  between give us something between a Mac [TS]

  Mini and a Mac Pro with the the [TS]

  expandability or close to it of the [TS]

  current Mac Pro and that you would think [TS]

  that would thing would sell really well [TS]

  and hey by the way put some rails on [TS]

  it'll go right in the rack that's when [TS]

  you start thinking that that's too good [TS]

  to be true [TS]

  that's one of the things I want to talk [TS]

  about the reason why to bring this up [TS]

  not so much that I believe these Mac Pro [TS]

  rumors but that well there's two topics [TS]

  first is the X Mac which which Marco [TS]

  didn't mention I'm build and analyze for [TS]

  people who don't know I put a link to it [TS]

  in the show notes [TS]

  my old ex Mac story the X Mac it's a [TS]

  little X capital M I believe this term [TS]

  originated in the ARS technica forums I [TS]

  tried to research it back when I wrote [TS]

  this article to see if I could find [TS]

  earlier instances of it and I couldn't [TS]

  so I'm going with that I the X Mac was [TS]

  the term for basically for the machine [TS]

  between the iMac and the Mac Pro it's a [TS]

  big gaping hole and apples lineup that's [TS]

  been there forever that you could buy an [TS]

  all-in-one computer with a monitor and [TS]

  everything and it's a cute little iMac [TS]

  and the iMac goes of course changed so [TS]

  much over the years but it's always been [TS]

  an all-in-one thing or you can get a Mac [TS]

  Pro which is a big honking tower with [TS]

  more expandability than almost anyone [TS]

  will ever need [TS]

  it's big and noisy and heavy and super [TS]

  expensive right and there's an obvious [TS]

  huge gap between those two computers and [TS]

  there's nothing there so the ex Mac was [TS]

  the term for the computer would slot in [TS]

  there now since it's so vaguely defined [TS]

  everybody thinks the ex Mac is whatever [TS]

  kind of computer they want so depending [TS]

  on what they want out of the ex Mac they [TS]

  will just map their desires onto it the [TS]

  only thing you need to have is it it can [TS]

  have a built-in monitor right and it [TS]

  can't be as big as the Mac Pro but [TS]

  everything else is all open season so in [TS]

  my old ex Mac article I wrote a story [TS]

  about what I thought of would be a great [TS]

  Mac X Mac not that I thought Apple was [TS]

  going to do it but it was my take on [TS]

  here's what I wanted for for the X Mac [TS]

  my current definition of the X Mac which [TS]

  I think is a reason is what most people [TS]

  the vast majority people mean when they [TS]

  talk about it at least the Nerds the [TS]

  arstechnica nerds and other people is [TS]

  that you know obviously it's not not an [TS]

  iMac and not a Mac Pro what that means [TS]

  is it has user serviceable RAM hard [TS]

  drive and video card like like a Mac Pro [TS]

  it doesn't have an embedded or an [TS]

  integrated video like it has an actual [TS]

  video card not one of those things [TS]

  that's soldered on the motherboard or [TS]

  integrated into the CPU and you can have [TS]

  more than one the hard drive it those [TS]

  three bullet points are probably the [TS]

  only ones you can get everyone agreed to [TS]

  for the X Mac what it boils down to is [TS]

  if for example gamers is a good thing if [TS]

  you want to do games on a Mac you have [TS]

  to buy stupid Mac Pro because the gaming [TS]

  cards in the IMAX have always been so [TS]

  awful they've gotten a lot better over [TS]

  time in fact the current one is actually [TS]

  pretty darn good and it's actually I [TS]

  believe an external card now although [TS]

  it's not user serviceable because that [TS]

  iMac is pretty well sealed up and you [TS]

  don't want to be digging in there but if [TS]

  you want a good if you want the best [TS]

  available video card that you can get on [TS]

  a Mac you have to buy a Mac Pro which is [TS]

  a huge waste because this is this huge [TS]

  volume of space in there and slot so [TS]

  you're not going to use and and hard [TS]

  drive slots and all this stuff and it [TS]

  seems like such a waste of money to buy [TS]

  a huge expensive three thousand alot [TS]

  computer just because you want to play [TS]

  games so it's like give me give me a [TS]

  small computer that has a big fancy [TS]

  gaming video card but otherwise is [TS]

  compact and quiet and maybe holds two [TS]

  hard drives instead of four and maybe [TS]

  doesn't support dual socket CPU is just [TS]

  one CPU is enough for gaming just make [TS]

  it the high clock speed you know it [TS]

  doesn't have to have as many cores Apple [TS]

  does not make that machine and people [TS]

  always want it so anytime there's any [TS]

  kind of rumor [TS]

  Mac Pros and other instance of people [TS]

  saying well Mac Pro is really old and [TS]

  wouldn't be great if there were a little [TS]

  bit smaller because it seems so big and [TS]

  the everyone just everyone will come [TS]

  back to the X Mac they don't know the X [TS]

  Mac name but that hole in the lineup is [TS]

  there and they will converge on it with [TS]

  their rumors and desires and the reasons [TS]

  Apple doesn't make that machine are [TS]

  pretty obvious first first the most [TS]

  important now is probably because most [TS]

  people buy laptops Apple sales have been [TS]

  majority of laptops for a long time and [TS]

  it continues a shift in that direction [TS]

  so Apple's attention paid to the desktop [TS]

  line as always it's always kind of [TS]

  second fiddle to the portables but even [TS]

  beyond that there's not really any [TS]

  upside for Apple and building the X Mac [TS]

  it would necessarily have lower margins [TS]

  than the Mac Pro because the whole point [TS]

  is it wouldn't be as expensive as the [TS]

  Mac Pro it's not supposed to be like the [TS]

  g4 cube where it's small and cute but [TS]

  also super expensive it's supposed to be [TS]

  cheaper otherwise why not just buy a Mac [TS]

  Pro it's also more complex than the iMac [TS]

  so it's kind of one of those don't make [TS]

  me think situations where Apple doesn't [TS]

  want a customer to come into the store [TS]

  and say well I could buy this iMac but [TS]

  people tell me there's this other one [TS]

  where you get the monitor separate and [TS]

  it could be less expensive or more [TS]

  expensive depending on how you configure [TS]

  it and blah blah [TS]

  they don't like that confusion that's [TS]

  not the Apple Wave it's no one goes into [TS]

  the the Apple Store confused where they [TS]

  should get a Mac Pro or an iMac because [TS]

  if you want an AK Pro you know you want [TS]

  a Mac Pro right if you don't want a Mac [TS]

  Pro guess what you get in an iMac or a [TS]

  laptop right so it's like portable or [TS]

  not portable and then once you pick [TS]

  once you pick not portable I don't if [TS]

  you want to call desktop once you big [TS]

  desktop the choice is really easy [TS]

  there's no confusion so why would Apple [TS]

  introduced a new model that adds [TS]

  customer confusion that lowers their [TS]

  margins cannibalizing sales of the Mac [TS]

  Pro most likely more than pulling people [TS]

  up from the iMac it just doesn't make [TS]

  any financial or practical sense for [TS]

  than ever to produce this Mac but [TS]

  computer nerds would love that for there [TS]

  to be one and I would too barring that [TS]

  which I don't think is ever going to [TS]

  happen what I would like to see is a [TS]

  revision to the Mac Pro enclosure for a [TS]

  couple of reasons first is it's just [TS]

  fashion like don't you get bored with [TS]

  the same everyone else gets redesigned [TS]

  the iMac Scott redesigned seven [TS]

  different ways a Sunday even even the [TS]

  laptops which are so limited in how they [TS]

  can look because they have to be [TS]

  portable and you know there's only a [TS]

  limited number of things you can do with [TS]

  laptop those have changed radically over [TS]

  the years in subtle ways and the iMac [TS]

  even more radically but the stupid Mac [TS]

  Pro you know it's time for us to have [TS]

  some fun - I'd so [TS]

  for the Mac Pro to change more slowly [TS]

  than the other models but it should [TS]

  change like I don't want to have this [TS]

  case I don't want to be buying my third [TS]

  computer that looks like a giant cheese [TS]

  grater let's just let's draw the line [TS]

  somewhere but internally there are [TS]

  actual practical issues that can that [TS]

  can be fixed so actually before we get [TS]

  internally externally those handles [TS]

  they're super sharp and they're not [TS]

  particularly comfortable they may look [TS]

  cool but and they're better than no [TS]

  handles but they're not great to pick [TS]

  the thing up from not that I carry [TS]

  around my Mac's a lot people who work in [TS]

  labs or any other place else where you [TS]

  do actually have to lift these things [TS]

  you know that those handles are pretty [TS]

  cruel let me let me ask you a question [TS]

  before you get too into destroying the [TS]

  current enclosure has there ever been a [TS]

  Mac desktop enclosure that we've had for [TS]

  as long as we've had this current one [TS]

  across the board in any model I don't [TS]

  think so the only one I would say is if [TS]

  you wanted to count all of the g4s as [TS]

  one model where they just changed the [TS]

  sort of plastic cladding then maybe you [TS]

  could count that or if you just wanted [TS]

  to count that shape like the g3 through [TS]

  g4 shape the one with a little that they [TS]

  handles at an angle right that external [TS]

  shape lasted for a really long time [TS]

  you're talking about the bits the visual [TS]

  oh you in the Bozell yeah now the whole [TS]

  thing the whole case shaped like if you [TS]

  were just look at it in silhouette from [TS]

  the Yosemite g3 all the way up to [TS]

  whatever the last g4 thing was with [TS]

  mirrored Drive doors whatever that shape [TS]

  stayed with us for a long time - but it [TS]

  at least it changed fashion wise to [TS]

  change color that features changed it's [TS]

  sprouted vents and glory holes and all [TS]

  sorts of slots and shiny things and [TS]

  letters and that changed in much more [TS]

  interesting ways so yeah but I do think [TS]

  the mac pro case has changed at least [TS]

  for the longest amount of time maybe the [TS]

  Xserve ones that maybe the Xserve [TS]

  changed less than that I know they move [TS]

  the vents and change to three hard [TS]

  drives when they went to I believe when [TS]

  they went to Intel so at least that had [TS]

  a break in the content of the X or it [TS]

  did look kind of the same about it but [TS]

  fashion aside and handles aside on the [TS]

  inside I liked when they change from two [TS]

  hard drives to four because that's one [TS]

  of the reasons I buy a Mac Pro is I want [TS]

  to be able to buy cheap hard drive [TS]

  mechanisms without any other stuff [TS]

  attached to them and just stick them [TS]

  into - you chuck it in there it's the [TS]

  cheapest way to get extra storage much [TS]

  less expensive than [TS]

  sometimes at this point the external [TS]

  cases you buy like so you just want a [TS]

  cheap USB case or firewire case or a [TS]

  thunderbolt case someday those cases [TS]

  tend to cost as much or more than the [TS]

  hard drive which kills me and I always [TS]

  like well I'll buy one these cases but [TS]

  I'll be able to reuse it but you can't [TS]

  really because first of all one of my [TS]

  lot of my cases are parallel ata which [TS]

  of course isn't used anymore so those [TS]

  all went by the wayside and the second [TS]

  thing is when you have a case with a [TS]

  hard drive minute you think you're going [TS]

  to reuse the case what are you going to [TS]

  do with the hard drive is in there and [TS]

  it seems like such a waste to just take [TS]

  it out and put in the attic or throw it [TS]

  in the garbage see you know what ends up [TS]

  happening is you don't reuse them as [TS]

  much as you thought you would and [TS]

  eventually they become obsolete it's oh [TS]

  I'd much prefer to have internal space [TS]

  for drives and the current models drives [TS]

  have these drive sled things I don't [TS]

  know if you have you pulled out the [TS]

  drive sleds in your Mac Pro you yeah so [TS]

  it's like a metal it's like a flimsy [TS]

  l-shaped metal thing with four screws on [TS]

  it to the drive attaches to but it's not [TS]

  a great experience like it's well [TS]

  alright they're very hard to get an out [TS]

  right and they there's sort of a point [TS]

  of tension where you have to pull but if [TS]

  you pull too hard the thing will just [TS]

  sort of fly out like a rocket and and [TS]

  also when you're pulling since it's an [TS]

  l-shaped piece of metal if you pull on [TS]

  the bottom of the L shape you're [TS]

  applying vertical pressure you know as a [TS]

  lever you just want to be pulling it out [TS]

  horizontally right you try to pull it [TS]

  horizontally it's no place there's no [TS]

  place to grip it so that you're pulling [TS]

  directly horizontal so the force vector [TS]

  is going entirely horizontally and so [TS]

  there's no other force vectors going up [TS]

  or down [TS]

  Oh physically yeah the only place you [TS]

  have to grab it causes force vectors ago [TS]

  in all sorts of directions in it and it [TS]

  binds up and sometimes it's hard to get [TS]

  them out all right and and it's metal on [TS]

  metal it's it's a piece of anodized [TS]

  aluminum or something sliding into metal [TS]

  slots and that's not a nice experience [TS]

  you know metal sliding it's metal is [TS]

  like it's not fingers on the chalkboard [TS]

  but it's close it's like scrapey and if [TS]

  you remember the B Power Mac g5 you [TS]

  remember what that hard drive thing was [TS]

  like yeah it had what you would do is [TS]

  you would take your hard drive mechanism [TS]

  that you bought from the store and they [TS]

  have these little dome headed screws [TS]

  they're almost rubberized yeah although [TS]

  the screws were on rubberized screws [TS]

  were smooth shiny metal that's right I'm [TS]

  sorry dome heads on them and they had to [TS]

  let fit into a little trough inside [TS]

  right yeah and the trough was plastic so [TS]

  here you had [TS]

  smooth metal on soft plastic when the [TS]

  great thing was that those little screws [TS]

  had little places for them to be like [TS]

  there was four screw holes for them to [TS]

  be stuck inside the case so it would [TS]

  come with one hard drive with the screws [TS]

  already in it but when you got your [TS]

  second hard drive you'd be like where [TS]

  are those dogs where are the screws how [TS]

  do I have to buy them but they were [TS]

  already there yeah yeah they were they [TS]

  were sort of there were four little [TS]

  screw holes up inside that you just had [TS]

  to I guess you just had to know that [TS]

  they were there or if you read your [TS]

  manual perhaps it said yeah and if you [TS]

  want to buy them third party like you [TS]

  made the mistake of taking a drive out [TS]

  and didn't take the screws off those [TS]

  things were really expensive yeah that's [TS]

  the same thing with a drive sled so the [TS]

  other thing with the drive slides is if [TS]

  you want [TS]

  I've been swapping drives a lot with [TS]

  having a lion Drive and I took out my [TS]

  Windows drive for a while and I've been [TS]

  you know that you're just using our [TS]

  wife's computer for that I'm using [TS]

  everything I'm using every piece of [TS]

  hardware in this house including my [TS]

  things so I'm swapping out drives but [TS]

  swapping out drives as a penguin then I [TS]

  sled because you have to unscrew this [TS]

  lead and screwed into the other one [TS]

  you're was afraid you're going to strip [TS]

  those tiny little screws because they're [TS]

  really small Phillips head size zero [TS]

  zero zero or whatever I would like to [TS]

  have an extra sled because I need to sly [TS]

  up the sled and slide the other one in [TS]

  but the sleds again cost half as much as [TS]

  an entire hard drive because they're [TS]

  there I don't know they're rare I don't [TS]

  know why they cost so much drive sleds [TS]

  always cost a bazillion dollars I guess [TS]

  it's a supply and demand thing so I [TS]

  would like to not have drive sleds the [TS]

  g5 situation where you had shiny metal [TS]

  screws smooth metal screws on plastic [TS]

  that was a much more pleasing sliding [TS]

  experience the only problem with the g5 [TS]

  one was that only it only had two drives [TS]

  and to get one of them out you had to [TS]

  take the other one out like you could [TS]

  take one of them in and out [TS]

  independently but if you wanted to take [TS]

  the second one out you also had to take [TS]

  the first one out because it was weird [TS]

  sliding thing so I would like something [TS]

  that like the current Mac Pro's where [TS]

  you've got four or more drives in fact I [TS]

  would say four or five six let me put as [TS]

  many drops as I want there I'll use them [TS]

  all but do not have metal and metal have [TS]

  to be a smooth slide without any bad [TS]

  mechanical you know mechanisms in there [TS]

  that caused them to bind up so there's [TS]

  definitely room for improvement in the [TS]

  user serviceable parts on the Mac Pro [TS]

  and the RAM is a little bit testy too [TS]

  but you ever use the Drobo no I'm not a [TS]

  Drobo family but we talked about that I [TS]

  think we did right I was just wondering [TS]

  if you have ever because they have a [TS]

  kind of an interesting [TS]

  drive insertion mechanism that doesn't [TS]

  require doing anything to the drive you [TS]

  just slide it in and it locks into place [TS]

  and there are people who [TS]

  like in people who don't I was just [TS]

  curious if you had tried yeah I like [TS]

  I've seen it I've seen like videos of [TS]

  people doing it I like the idea you know [TS]

  no weird screws no sleds just slide the [TS]

  drive in and if it works fine and [TS]

  there's not a lot of slop and you don't [TS]

  get like the connector shaking loose or [TS]

  anything then it seems fine let's I've [TS]

  been using Drobo's for years and I've [TS]

  never had a problem with drive insertion [TS]

  or anything in Ottomans it's simple it [TS]

  just works [TS]

  and I do would think that Apple would [TS]

  innovate something like that yeah well [TS]

  you know hard drives are kind of creepy [TS]

  in that there's one of the last pieces [TS]

  of a computer that's not hot swappable I [TS]

  don't know if Siri lays a technically [TS]

  support hot swapping I think it might [TS]

  but certainly the Mac the packet is not [TS]

  so do not remove your hard drive while [TS]

  the computer is on do not put a new one [TS]

  in to mine our drivers on bad things [TS]

  will happen and Thunderbolt obviously [TS]

  fixes this but then you have the whole [TS]

  external case issue and does the case [TS]

  have a fan does the case have a power [TS]

  supply it's not bus powered that gets so [TS]

  much messier I'm a big fan of internal [TS]

  drives I always pack my machines with as [TS]

  many drives as they can fit internally [TS]

  we would also like very much to thank [TS]

  Shopify comm one of our long-term [TS]

  sponsors love these guys [TS]

  Shopify is absolutely the best way to [TS]

  sell anything online I love them now you [TS]

  get your own online store you'll be able [TS]

  to accept credit cards you'll be able to [TS]

  use your own domain you'll be able to [TS]

  customise your stores design they host [TS]

  everything for you you don't have to do [TS]

  anything it's all right there it's just [TS]

  done it's done you can pick from over 50 [TS]

  free and premium themes in their theme [TS]

  store and if you know HTML and CSS [TS]

  forget it design your own it's up to you [TS]

  you'll get your own shopping card to get [TS]

  streamlined checkout and they have a [TS]

  dedicated team of security experts with [TS]

  a really thick rimmed glasses that will [TS]

  handle all of your ecommerce stuff and [TS]

  make it secure for you so you don't have [TS]

  to worry about it I mean they've got [TS]

  everything they've got analytics they'll [TS]

  keep track of your stores progress over [TS]

  time they do all of this you know again [TS]

  you don't have to install anything or do [TS]

  anything it's just right their unique [TS]

  visitors everything now there's a 30-day [TS]

  free trial but if you use the discount [TS]

  code 5x5 you will get your first three [TS]

  months free a shop in minutes of [TS]

  business for life at Shopify com I love [TS]

  them you will to check them [TS]

  so on new hardware and the line delay I [TS]

  don't know what's coming I assume [TS]

  MacBook Airs are coming I assume there [TS]

  will be no Mac Pro thing like like Marco [TS]

  said on his show the Intel roadmap [TS]

  dictates that the CPUs Apple would use [TS]

  for its macros and not yet available but [TS]

  on the other hand as he also said Apple [TS]

  occasionally gets stuff early so there's [TS]

  rumors flying around about that I think [TS]

  he most recently posted something that [TS]

  was his take on this serial number [TS]

  mismatch thing was that oh it looks [TS]

  those are actual Co numbers for the [TS]

  white MacBook of the Mac Mini just goes [TS]

  to show there's not going to be any new [TS]

  Mac pros because the chips aren't ready [TS]

  and that's probably true so and you're [TS]

  in you're going to go on record right [TS]

  okay so today is Wednesday so July 13th [TS]

  you're going on record and saying there [TS]

  will be no this is eating your gut [TS]

  feeling and whatever insider information [TS]

  you have and are downplaying no new Macs [TS]

  this week no line this week that's what [TS]

  I'm saying next week definitive definite [TS]

  absolutely uh stink you've already [TS]

  notional no new line I mean this is just [TS]

  rumors I'm just guessing I'm guessing [TS]

  like everybody else I'm saying no lion [TS]

  this week probably know are we're this [TS]

  week next week [TS]

  I assume lion will will be released and [TS]

  hardware I give 50/50 chance for next [TS]

  week just because new hardware is coming [TS]

  doesn't mean it's coming at the same [TS]

  time as lion or next week you know what [TS]

  I mean like it's obvious as you people [TS]

  have drawn a man another they've they've [TS]

  made that connection and said that the [TS]

  reason that we don't have the airs yet [TS]

  I'll just pick the airs out of the all [TS]

  of the list cuz that's been the longest [TS]

  runner and we know those need to be [TS]

  updated the reason that there's no new [TS]

  errors is because lion wasn't completely [TS]

  ready and it takes them a week or two to [TS]

  go from saying okay this is our GM seed [TS]

  we think it's going to be good too [TS]

  saying it is good to then printing it on [TS]

  to whether it's books or DVDs which they [TS]

  may or may not be selling or even just [TS]

  burning the image down onto the little [TS]

  DVD of the little USB stick rather to [TS]

  ship along with the MacBook Airs and [TS]

  putting them into the boxes and getting [TS]

  them an image done to the hard drives [TS]

  and all the little things they need to [TS]

  do that that could take a week or two [TS]

  but you know what I feel like that [TS]

  kind of going back to the previous this [TS]

  is follow up a follow up but couldn't [TS]

  they have announced the new MacBook Airs [TS]

  and said they ship in a week or they [TS]

  ship in two weeks like the minute that [TS]

  they were a hundred percent sure that [TS]

  the GM was ready to go the minute that [TS]

  they said that GM is good the GM this is [TS]

  the West is our boy this is the one he's [TS]

  ready to go out in the world that at [TS]

  that minute they say all right MacBook [TS]

  Airs [TS]

  coming out yeah Apple sizing we're I [TS]

  wait why wait why not just save shit [TS]

  because tonight it's not like they have [TS]

  a thing about shipping Julie you won't [TS]

  announce analyst at shipping today [TS]

  because they announced stuff is all the [TS]

  time all the time but on the other hand [TS]

  you know Apple does like to have like a [TS]

  medium message I think it's probably [TS]

  dictated by marketing because they do [TS]

  they do want to announce things in a [TS]

  certain order to push a certain message [TS]

  and if marketing has decided that the [TS]

  best way to release these is in this [TS]

  order this and out you know that's the [TS]

  that's the way it's going to go if they [TS]

  say we should release lion and we should [TS]

  release the hardware two days before or [TS]

  we should at least the new hardware two [TS]

  days after actually we should wait for [TS]

  all the line stuff to die down before [TS]

  announcing the new hardware you know I [TS]

  think along when you say marketing [TS]

  that's a euphemism for Steve Jobs no not [TS]

  really because I think he delegates the [TS]

  launch order of most things to the [TS]

  actual marketing department really has a [TS]

  lot of power within Apple and really if [TS]

  you think he dedicates that you when you [TS]

  say delegates that is a euphemism for [TS]

  giving them the specific date and time [TS]

  and order in which to launch sometimes [TS]

  I'm sure he has strong feelings other [TS]

  but the way the way my impression is the [TS]

  way things work inside Apple is not that [TS]

  he dictates everything with just that he [TS]

  if you feel strongly about something he [TS]

  has no problem reaching down the [TS]

  organization and making it so but if he [TS]

  doesn't feel strongly and that's why he [TS]

  hires good people they come to him with [TS]

  something they say we're thinking to do [TS]

  an X and he goes yeah that sounds fine [TS]

  or no it doesn't and I think he says [TS]

  yeah that sounds fine a lot with the [TS]

  marketing people now obviously when it's [TS]

  it's something involving him like the [TS]

  iCloud launch or whatever he's going to [TS]

  say no iCloud it has to be the same time [TS]

  as wcwc is going to be iOS 5 line and [TS]

  iCloud and that's going to be our push [TS]

  you know that was a clear message to [TS]

  that conference that they had those [TS]

  three things so even if iCloud was early [TS]

  ready or iOS five was really ready or [TS]

  anything all those three we're going to [TS]

  coincide it W that we see no matter what [TS]

  but for Hardware stuff like this you've [TS]

  seen with a [TS]

  with the hardware like they'll update [TS]

  the Mac Pros and not even say anything [TS]

  that you press roots maybe if you're [TS]

  lucky same thing with the white Mac [TS]

  books and stuff and then occasionally [TS]

  they'll be like the new heirs will get [TS]

  on the front page and they'll be a press [TS]

  release but it's not that big of a push [TS]

  obviously lion is going to be a big push [TS]

  so I don't know when these things are [TS]

  going to come but I would imagine that [TS]

  marketing has a lot to do with it [TS]

  and if they if they really thought it [TS]

  was super important for line to be out [TS]

  this week like if there was some sort of [TS]

  external pressure they would have just [TS]

  done it and if the hardware wasn't ready [TS]

  they would have announced it if they [TS]

  decided it's best for us to announce [TS]

  hardware and software at the same time [TS]

  they would have just announced it but [TS]

  not this week probably next week and I [TS]

  wouldn't be surprised if you either [TS]

  don't see the hardware or see the [TS]

  hardware before the software because I [TS]

  don't know what the know what the best [TS]

  sequence is for this you know they could [TS]

  like you said they could announce the [TS]

  hardware hey new MacBook Air say they [TS]

  announced that on Monday and then on [TS]

  Wednesday they they announced line and [TS]

  they could announce the MacBook Airs [TS]

  will be shipping with lion but you won't [TS]

  get them in for two weeks or whatever [TS]

  you know well yeah maybe that maybe that [TS]

  just goes back to playing their hand as [TS]

  far as announced pre announcing when [TS]

  lion ships without intending to in other [TS]

  words if they say oh yeah it's available [TS]

  in two weeks well then everybody says oh [TS]

  well that means lines not ready and [TS]

  lines not coming out for two weeks but [TS]

  now we know it comes out in two weeks so [TS]

  that gives you know that plays their [TS]

  hand and all that they do they're going [TS]

  to keep their July promise I'm assuming [TS]

  so I don't know so we'll see you next [TS]

  week oh they'll keep their July promise [TS]

  I think I think we might you know what [TS]

  there's still a couple days left in a [TS]

  week they've they've been known to [TS]

  release things on Thursdays before I [TS]

  would be shocked if it happen I'd hope I [TS]

  just want to see what you look like [TS]

  shocked so Josh the yokomen chatroom [TS]

  mentioned that lion has a different [TS]

  solution for enterprise and education [TS]

  customers for distributing the software [TS]

  what he says is that those customers are [TS]

  allowed to download a line install our [TS]

  app from the App Store and then just [TS]

  download it once and then you can use [TS]

  that installer app to install on all the [TS]

  machines on the site so basically we're [TS]

  in a situation where you if you have [TS]

  today if you have a Mac and the Mac has [TS]

  no operating system on it let's say the [TS]

  hard drive completely failed and the [TS]

  hard drive is gone and you buy a brand [TS]

  new hard drive for [TS]

  and you would like to install lion [TS]

  directly you cannot well you could [TS]

  because if you bought a Mac it you [TS]

  didn't buy a Mac you have this Mac from [TS]

  before did you get it from no you you [TS]

  bought it from a fiery buddy from your [TS]

  mom come with it should have come she [TS]

  lost that she lost the DVD she lost it [TS]

  find that you're gonna the same thing [TS]

  would happen if you bought a Mac pre [TS]

  lion and you lost the DVD and you lost [TS]

  the harddrive you have to boot it from [TS]

  something to get the OS installed you [TS]

  put in the brand-new line DVD boot up [TS]

  format but if you had a lion DVD that's [TS]

  what my point is how do you get how do [TS]

  you get line on there you can't you get [TS]

  a bison you got to go and find a copy or [TS]

  buy a copy of Snow Leopard [TS]

  if you boy yeah I'm assuming the machine [TS]

  will come with something you can boot it [TS]

  from uh Snow Leopard machine what if [TS]

  it's an existing machine no it was an [TS]

  existing machine it came with originally [TS]

  a Snow Leopard but I lost the disc I [TS]

  know but you're in no different [TS]

  situation if you lost that disc weather [TS]

  line exists or not you know I'm saying [TS]

  no I am because if it shipped on if [TS]

  whatever the latest operating system was [TS]

  shipped on DVD I could drive any Apple [TS]

  Store or call up Amazon or whatever I [TS]

  needed to do and get the DVD put it into [TS]

  the Machine and install it you [TS]

  understand what I'm saying what if it [TS]

  what if yeah and there's I you you I [TS]

  know that this is just something you [TS]

  can't fathom but there are a lot of [TS]

  people who are like still wanting to do [TS]

  it this way or might have to do it this [TS]

  way and I'm saying there there has to be [TS]

  a way listen I'm the first person in [TS]

  line to say let's get rid of DVDs I I [TS]

  hate all of that kind of media I I love [TS]

  all of this electronic distribution and [TS]

  for me it's perfect I'm the kind of [TS]

  person who died I never need to see that [TS]

  kind of stuff again get every everything [TS]

  should be streamed everything should be [TS]

  downloadable every everybody should have [TS]

  files power to the people but the [TS]

  reality is there's a lot of people who [TS]

  just don't don't have this in the world [TS]

  I'm talking about the world like you [TS]

  know the continent of Europe I think [TS]

  they're almost there getting Internet [TS]

  soon but I talking about in the [TS]

  individuals or institutions individuals [TS]

  the individual as an institution discuss [TS]

  but anyway you know what I'm saying I'm [TS]

  saying that that an individual person [TS]

  who isn't as in this situation it's not [TS]

  typical but there's still people like [TS]

  that what are the what does that person [TS]

  do they got to go find a copy of [TS]

  snow leopard install that get on to the [TS]

  App Store make the account by Snow [TS]

  Leopard [TS]

  I mean lion wait while that thing [TS]

  downloads install it from Snow Leopard [TS]

  that's that's a headache that's a honey [TS]

  that room some of the chat room says [TS]

  they are on a two hundred megabyte per [TS]

  day satellite internet care you there [TS]

  you that's a typical listener I guess [TS]

  where do you think that person looks UK [TS]

  because they don't have internet over [TS]

  there Ohio there you go so I don't think [TS]

  Apple cares about the people with no net [TS]

  connections that I do I do think there [TS]

  has to be some sort of physical out for [TS]

  these people even if the physical out is [TS]

  to go to an Apple store and set and tell [TS]

  them your plight say you know I've got a [TS]

  computer at home I lost the CD I really [TS]

  want to put lion on it you guys don't [TS]

  sell Snow Leopard anymore I guess you [TS]

  could probably bison all over from [TS]

  Amazon to something but there's no more [TS]

  Snow Leopard DVDs available anyway if I [TS]

  get a new hard drive how do I reinstall [TS]

  the operating system on this thing now [TS]

  like you suggested earlier it could be [TS]

  that new computers will come with the [TS]

  DVD line DVD and Apple will have a bunch [TS]

  of in the back of the room for you [TS]

  assume this person also has no friends [TS]

  by the way because you could someone [TS]

  could burn you a lion DVD for using the [TS]

  Installer pretty easily or imagine they [TS]

  live you know they live in Ohio or [TS]

  somewhere where they're no other they [TS]

  have yeah they have no other geek friend [TS]

  right no access anything but they can [TS]

  drive to an Apple store would the Apple [TS]

  store burn you a DVD or have some in the [TS]

  background for you or would they have [TS]

  like thumb drives that you can buy for a [TS]

  nominal fee or something like that I [TS]

  don't know it seems like it's not as big [TS]

  a problem [TS]

  I think practically speaking it's going [TS]

  to be very difficult to ever be in a [TS]

  situation where you absolutely can't get [TS]

  a physical version like who has no [TS]

  friends who have max you know who also [TS]

  has on that I don't know it seems like [TS]

  you could get something very much an end [TS]

  case but I just I think it's I think [TS]

  it's a pretty big deal I think it's a [TS]

  pretty big deal it's as big of a deal as [TS]

  maybe as not having a floppy drive in [TS]

  the IMAX when that happened so are you [TS]

  going to predict the new machines that [TS]

  come with line are they going to ship [TS]

  with an optical disc that you can boot [TS]

  from you know I could almost imagine [TS]

  instead just why not have the little USB [TS]

  thumb drive that they do just for the [TS]

  airs why not want to do that for all new [TS]

  Macs [TS]

  well the opto this is way cheaper than [TS]

  that USB thumb yeah but and cents well I [TS]

  know that but I think I just think [TS]

  that's such a neat way to do it it isn't [TS]

  he so so you do you think they'll have [TS]

  something physical whether it's a thumb [TS]

  drive or an optical drive but they have [TS]

  two new machines in ship with line have [TS]

  to come with a physical things you think [TS]

  I think so I think they have to I be I [TS]

  wouldn't be shocked if they didn't but I [TS]

  I suspect something I suspect I'll have [TS]

  to I think they will and I think it will [TS]

  be an optical disk yeah for that would [TS]

  not that would not surprise me but then [TS]

  does that mean you wouldn't be able to [TS]

  buy one of those in the store eventually [TS]

  I don't I don't think they're gonna ever [TS]

  sell them you may be able to obtain them [TS]

  from your friendly Apple store if you [TS]

  just go and tell them and no either burn [TS]

  you one or have a bunch in the backroom [TS]

  or once you can prove that you actually [TS]

  purchase line by showing them on the Mac [TS]

  App Store see look I purchased it I just [TS]

  can't download this Apple stores are [TS]

  always accommodating with stuff like [TS]

  that and what and why wouldn't they what [TS]

  other than you know as long as you make [TS]

  a Genius Bar appointment and you've made [TS]

  your appointment you filled your time [TS]

  slot you come in there and say you know [TS]

  what I need I need Lion I bought it on [TS]

  the Mac App Store let me log you in the [TS]

  Mac App Store on one of these Macs and [TS]

  show you see I bought it but I totally [TS]

  can't get it because I'm in Ohio and I [TS]

  have satellite internet can you help me [TS]

  out what's like what's the kid's name in [TS]

  Ohio what's the kid's name that was a TJ [TS]

  Loma am i mangling that name that says [TS]

  he knows comm TJ yeah so here we are [TS]

  burned through a bunch of follow up and [TS]

  we still didn't get the mark down I'm [TS]

  still not even done with my follow up [TS]

  well let's just do we'll do a whole [TS]

  episode of follow up yeah [TS]

  oh it what is this next thing I see [TS]

  quick pic oh I wanted that forever that [TS]

  has been in my notes for months and [TS]

  months and that's that's a rant topic oh [TS]

  we could save that for another time I [TS]

  guess once more around with DHCP yeah [TS]

  you put that in there I looked at the [TS]

  article I thought you would like that [TS]

  you don't like that it was technically [TS]

  interesting to explain why max can join [TS]

  networks quickly when you have you ever [TS]

  I mean if you're a Mac user and most I [TS]

  would think most of our audience [TS]

  probably is you may not you may not know [TS]

  this but because you're a lot of people [TS]

  who use Mac's only use Mac's but if you [TS]

  open up your your Mac laptop by the time [TS]

  that you can get [TS]

  a web browser assuming you're on a [TS]

  network that you've been on once before [TS]

  you know Wi-Fi network by the time you [TS]

  can like get to start typing something [TS]

  into the web browser you're online [TS]

  you're you're browsing web you're there [TS]

  you've got your DHCP address assigned [TS]

  you're on the network you're ready to go [TS]

  you may not know this but it's not that [TS]

  way for non Mac machines especially not [TS]

  Windows machines Linux not really either [TS]

  that takes a little bit longer now we're [TS]

  not talking about minutes where you're [TS]

  sitting there waiting and waiting and [TS]

  waiting waiting to get a signal no but [TS]

  it's a perceptible amount of time that [TS]

  might it might be several seconds longer [TS]

  if not maybe even longer for an older [TS]

  machine whereas all the Macs are just [TS]

  boom they're right there on the network [TS]

  so this guy wrote this this article very [TS]

  technical article what's this guy's name [TS]

  David Simmons he's a software engineer [TS]

  and he does like the low-level system [TS]

  stuff and it occurred to him one day [TS]

  that his Mac's were way faster getting [TS]

  on the network so he's analyzed this [TS]

  whole thing he used a samsung galaxy tab [TS]

  running 10.1 a MacBook Pro running 10 6 [TS]

  8 and I was would those the only two [TS]

  machines he tests are do you test [TS]

  something else but he basically watched [TS]

  how they get the their links established [TS]

  and what happens behind the scenes in [TS]

  DHCP and should he integrate this into [TS]

  the Linux kernel and what did you make [TS]

  of this thing that was pretty neat it [TS]

  what it shows me because he shows the [TS]

  packets and in the timings yeah [TS]

  what it shows me is that this is not a [TS]

  technology thing where like Apple has [TS]

  some super advanced technology they [TS]

  don't have right it's it's an attention [TS]

  to decent detail thing because the only [TS]

  difference is the policy that's used the [TS]

  Apple someone an Apple said it's [TS]

  annoying when I open up my laptop lid [TS]

  and I can't use the network for like 10 [TS]

  seconds right you know or five seconds [TS]

  or whatever so someone high enough up [TS]

  said that's annoying can we fix that and [TS]

  when you say someone that's a euphemism [TS]

  for Steve Jobs or anybody else who has [TS]

  been influenced by his you know value [TS]

  system so the PC laptop that he's got [TS]

  what it shows is basically it does a [TS]

  bunch of stuff and then it waits and it [TS]

  decides after 10 seconds which is [TS]

  probably configurable time out somewhere [TS]

  it's like well [TS]

  I guess there's no that you know this is [TS]

  a different network let me see if this [TS]

  is DHCP server that's just a policy it's [TS]

  like try your old networking if you [TS]

  can't get to it see if there's a DHCP [TS]

  server and there's a 10 second wait [TS]

  between it so the boom there's your 10 [TS]

  seconds so the guy who got this request [TS]

  at Apple said I don't like waiting that [TS]

  amount of time I said well we don't have [TS]

  to do it that way why don't we just [TS]

  remember the last few networks we've [TS]

  connected with and see if any of them [TS]

  are still viable and get right back to [TS]

  using them and we can do that in more [TS]

  quickly than if we use this other policy [TS]

  it's just a change in what do you do [TS]

  when you wake up and how long do you [TS]

  wait to see if the thing you thought was [TS]

  there is there or not or whatever so [TS]

  that's just that there's no reason [TS]

  Windows or any other vendor can't do [TS]

  this probably Windows the reason Windows [TS]

  can't do everything is because they say [TS]

  well there's some enterprise vendor [TS]

  somewhere that says if we change this [TS]

  mechanism it will invalidate their [TS]

  network security and the government says [TS]

  we have to do follow this algorithm [TS]

  exactly in the 10 second wait is [TS]

  mandatory and blob you know there's [TS]

  always some reason why Windows can't do [TS]

  anything when during Windows is totally [TS]

  bogged down with enterprise [TS]

  entanglements I think it did an article [TS]

  on that way back when but it's still as [TS]

  true today as it was then enterprise [TS]

  entanglements tie at Microsoft's hands [TS]

  or Microsoft believes they tie its hands [TS]

  they choose to cater to that audience so [TS]

  they can't do stuff so Apple doesn't [TS]

  have those problems Apple's not going to [TS]

  sell some big clients gonna say wait [TS]

  wait wait actually the old algorithm the [TS]

  way it works is that's our network needs [TS]

  you to wait that 10 seconds because we [TS]

  do X Y and C it up says no it's more [TS]

  important for the majority of our [TS]

  customers to open the lid and get the [TS]

  network connection as fast as possible [TS]

  so we're going to change our network [TS]

  stack a little bit on our Wi-Fi thing [TS]

  and say all right when you when they [TS]

  lift the lid actually send out these [TS]

  four or five packets remember the last [TS]

  few networks you've connected to see if [TS]

  them any of them available and quickly [TS]

  reconnect to them because it gives a [TS]

  better user experience and we don't care [TS]

  if it violates the expectations of the [TS]

  network administering 10 seconds so [TS]

  that's another example of Windows and PC [TS]

  vendors failing not because they lack [TS]

  the technology or expertise but because [TS]

  they have the wrong value system they're [TS]

  to make they make the wrong choices [TS]

  about what's important so I guess it [TS]

  wasn't a pet sorry a little technical [TS]

  rated in the shona really for this show [TS]

  a little technical [TS]

  a little technical [TS]

  yeah well I don't know I'm not a network [TS]

  guy so is a little technical assistance [TS]

  because something that I don't [TS]

  understand thoroughly so I have a vague [TS]

  understanding of network related topics [TS]

  so you don't want to talk about that but [TS]

  you'll fry and talking about chemistry [TS]

  or whatever physics physics so do you [TS]

  think then we basically got two days [TS]

  this week in two days next week where [TS]

  we're line could be announced or [TS]

  released to know whether or not next [TS]

  week's show will be about it we were [TS]

  hoping it might be this week's show my [TS]

  now now we're thinking might be next [TS]

  week's show you got to think you know [TS]

  Apple likes Tuesdays so I'm still [TS]

  thinking next Tuesday or next Wednesday [TS]

  now if this if Oh when's day I thought [TS]

  it was only Tuesday or Thursday and even [TS]

  no Wednesday was on potential what is [TS]

  Wednesday Wednesday is I don't know [TS]

  you're right it's probably Tuesday or [TS]

  Monday - who knows who knows I heard I [TS]

  heard the 19th a long time ago I was [TS]

  saying the 19th and then these these [TS]

  12th and 14th rumours started in the [TS]

  fine yeah I'll tell I'll tell you what [TS]

  this is hope the listeners will know if [TS]

  line comes out into white smoke well [TS]

  know they'll know if line comes out [TS]

  they'll know that this show is going to [TS]

  be in a lion extravaganza spread apart [TS]

  six six six to ten different episodes [TS]

  well it will begin long series will [TS]

  begin will say I don't know how long [TS]

  it's gonna take us to go through it it [TS]

  depends on if you have a specific [TS]

  question might take might take a good [TS]

  six months well one thing I can say is [TS]

  I'm going to assume that when we do that [TS]

  show that the people listening have [TS]

  either read or skim to the article [TS]

  because I'm not going to reiterate [TS]

  everything in the art or perhaps they [TS]

  will have listened the article perhaps [TS]

  they will have listened to my dramatic [TS]

  reading of the article if I can acquire [TS]

  the rights to do that I'm not sure I [TS]

  mean you're right your response to that [TS]

  I have not eyed so for the people who [TS]

  don't shame on you if you don't follow [TS]

  me on Twitter I'm Dan benjamin on [TS]

  twitter and you can follow john at [TS]

  siracusa no z-s IRAC us a note there's [TS]

  no longer is Ian that and you can you [TS]

  could follow the discussion there and [TS]

  basically what I did is I asked people I [TS]

  said what would you enjoy a dramatic [TS]

  reading of either perhaps some or maybe [TS]

  all there's only 85 pages you know [TS]

  essentially an audiobook format now it [TS]

  would really ideal would be for Merlin [TS]

  to read it in his a car van honks voice [TS]

  can you do an impression of Merlin [TS]

  knowing that impression no but I can and [TS]

  will do and it in a Squidward voice [TS]

  which is the same as doing it in a John [TS]

  siracusa voice let's hear that [TS]

  impression I will have an art school I [TS]

  don't you you need to just go watch the [TS]

  show I know I would like to hear your [TS]

  impression [TS]

  you'll hear it when I do the dramatic [TS]

  reading all right all right so anyway I [TS]

  have applied through the powers it be [TS]

  over at ARS technica can I say Who I did [TS]

  I asked I shouldn't I asked the powers [TS]

  that be that's enough and I'm waiting [TS]

  for a response it would be great I [TS]

  didn't you know I don't know what the [TS]

  legality of it is I know that if you [TS]

  ever listen to regular traditional or [TS]

  satellite radio they read they read [TS]

  things all the time they rarely read [TS]

  something in its entirety but they [TS]

  frequently read it and then they'll take [TS]

  excerpts from it and things like this [TS]

  now this is a different situation [TS]

  because we're talking about you know 85 [TS]

  pages and that's not a lot for me to [TS]

  read I could read 85 pages and you know [TS]

  in an hour and a half easy I mean I [TS]

  could do it like the micromachines guy [TS]

  remember those commercials the FedEx guy [TS]

  Micro Machines guy the fast reader [TS]

  I don't think of this reading let me [TS]

  just go on record and say that I think a [TS]

  dramatic reading is a dumb idea and no [TS]

  one should ever listen to it because you [TS]

  have to let yet see the screenshots and [TS]

  you know it just maybe I'll make it a [TS]

  screencast and I'll show the screenshots [TS]

  while I'm reading it it just seems like [TS]

  a weird thing I'm trying to raise money [TS]

  to do it and they give you the rights [TS]

  I'm trying to raise money for you I'm [TS]

  gonna let people donate they can donate [TS]

  nothing or they can I'll donate a [TS]

  hundred percent of the profits to you [TS]

  well why don't you wait to see you get [TS]

  the rights because I think to read the [TS]

  entire thing you definitely do need the [TS]

  rights from the people what about this I [TS]

  know that I could read some excerpts of [TS]

  it certainly yeah anyway long long story [TS]

  short long story short I would I would [TS]

  very much like to read perhaps part of [TS]

  it perhaps just like an intro like a [TS]

  very cool intro I just read the intro do [TS]

  you have a cool intro paragraph or [TS]

  something where you like set the stage [TS]

  for the whole article I could just read [TS]

  no bar no part of what I wrote in this [TS]

  article is cool hate the bruster bubble [TS]

  I think your stuff is kind of cool yeah [TS]

  maybe that might that my son asked me [TS]

  yesterday if I was cool oh he had to ask [TS]

  I thought it was a trick question [TS]

  like did you tell him were you honest I [TS]

  did would you say something like in what [TS]

  context I did I more or less I did say [TS]

  you know probably not but some nerdy [TS]

  people think some of the things I talk [TS]

  about is cool so it really depends on [TS]

  who you're talking to because yeah I [TS]

  mean you're the same deal you're [TS]

  definitely not cool but there are people [TS]

  who think you're cool because you're [TS]

  cool to them you know what I mean yes [TS]

  the wider scheme of things definitely [TS]

  not cool that's okay that's that's why [TS]

  we're nerds here you know nobody judges [TS]

  here that's right but I would say yes [TS]

  from in the in the real definition of [TS]

  cool there was nothing cool in my [TS]

  article but if you're going to Mac os10 [TS]

  maybe you'll find some parts of the cool [TS]

  I don't know so I wouldn't I wouldn't [TS]

  worry about next week's show even if [TS]

  fine is now because I got so much stuff [TS]

  I don't know why my list of topics [TS]

  exploded I didn't get to here's all the [TS]

  things I didn't get to we didn't get to [TS]

  mark down again sorry people we didn't [TS]

  get to the quick quick thing which has [TS]

  been on my list forever ah [TS]

  I wanted to I fun so I was riding the [TS]

  line review and I'm Way behind on five [TS]

  by five shows which is annoying because [TS]

  now I'm living in the past basically I'm [TS]

  listening to shows for two and three [TS]

  weeks ago I just heard the show with you [TS]

  and Merlin flailing helplessly in in the [TS]

  sea of Mack misremembered Mack facts and [TS]

  oh it feels like a million years or and [TS]

  Star Wars things yeah that's how far [TS]

  behind we did that show just for you [TS]

  yeah well it was it was painful so I [TS]

  wanted I would want to talk about that I [TS]

  have lots of things to talk about in [TS]

  subsequent shows so don't worry if Mac [TS]

  os10 is not out next week we will [TS]

  definitely still have things and I'm [TS]

  sorry we didn't get to all of them this [TS]

  week [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  but I think that's it for us well we [TS]

  will be back next week and if you hear [TS]

  about Lyon or any new Apple stuff coming [TS]

  out before Wednesday you'll know we'll [TS]

  be talking about it otherwise and [TS]

  markdown that's right maybe maybe we'll [TS]

  have a good week John you too [TS]

  well that about does it for this week's [TS]

  episode of hypercritical were really [TS]

  glad that you decided to join us this [TS]

  week you can follow John on Twitter at [TS]

  siracusa nosie I'm Dan Benjamin on [TS]

  Twitter also nosy please check out 5x5 [TS]

  TV and you can hear previous episodes of [TS]

  this show as well as the entire catalog [TS]

  of five-by-five shows which we would [TS]

  love for you to check out if you want [TS]

  you can rate the show on iTunes it helps [TS]

  new listeners find the show it does a [TS]

  whole lot of other great things so [TS]

  please consider doing that if you [TS]

  donated thank you so much for doing that [TS]

  every little bit helps and and that's [TS]

  about it we want to make sure to say [TS]

  thanks to our amazing sponsors fresh [TS]

  books calm and Shopify calm be sure to [TS]

  go and check those guys out and help the [TS]

  show that way too we will be back next [TS]

  week maybe to talk about line maybe not [TS]

  you never know but we'll be here see you [TS]

  next week [TS]

  you [TS]