20: I've Got Nothing


  [Music] [TS]

  this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect that it cannot be completely [TS]

  decimated and destroyed by my co-host [TS]

  John siracusa i'm dan benjamin and this [TS]

  is episode number 20 we'd like to say [TS]

  thanks to istockphoto.com the world's [TS]

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  the details we'd also like to say thanks [TS]

  to MailChimp comm for continuing their [TS]

  support these guys help you design email [TS]

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  per month how do they do that I don't [TS]

  know how they do that but check them out [TS]

  at MailChimp com hey John how you doing [TS]

  this week doing pretty well that we are [TS]

  real people we do a lot of work in posts [TS]

  on these shows especially when people [TS]

  are recording our I don't even want to [TS]

  say it but when people are foolish [TS]

  enough to record with a USB headset [TS]

  microphone I mean nobody nobody would [TS]

  would do that if they were serious about [TS]

  this but apparently we're both doing [TS]

  that this time [TS]

  it'll be okay you'll see we'll do a lot [TS]

  of work in post and why am i doing it [TS]

  because my recording studio situation is [TS]

  completely up in the air and I'm [TS]

  essentially studio listened almost [TS]

  homeless so this this week we're both [TS]

  we're on the even ground this week so [TS]

  we'll see what kind of magic we can do [TS]

  in post I'm sure we'll be fine [TS]

  so how are you how are things going [TS]

  you're headed to WWDC I can't believe it [TS]

  I can't believe it [TS]

  I am I told you this before I believe [TS]

  but you don't remember neither do I [TS]

  because we're both old men but yeah I [TS]

  can't believe you're getting on an [TS]

  airplane again so you know this this [TS]

  will be the longest plane flight I've [TS]

  ever taken I'm not looking forward to it [TS]

  but I think I'll survive the lesson [TS]

  you've been to WWC before that I have [TS]

  never been this will be my first and [TS]

  probably my only trip no kidding yes I I [TS]

  had no idea Wow [TS]

  your only trip why do you say that so [TS]

  pessimistic because it's so expensive [TS]

  and you know I'm basically taking [TS]

  vacation time to do this I'm paying for [TS]

  my own tickets it's just ridiculously [TS]

  expensive all for what is for me mostly [TS]

  a fun trip not really [TS]

  work-related or you know I mean right so [TS]

  other people that you'll be able to meet [TS]

  that you haven't met before is that part [TS]

  of it as well or yeah yeah I'm sure I'll [TS]

  I'll see people who I've only talked to [TS]

  online there but I mean the main thing [TS]

  that motivated me to go was that I was [TS]

  living in mortal fear that lion would be [TS]

  released before I was able to see the [TS]

  videos that they normally release after [TS]

  WotC because seeing seeing WWC sessions [TS]

  that's essential for me writing a decent [TS]

  review because I mean if you look at [TS]

  some my old Mac os10 reviews all they [TS]

  really are is summaries of my favorite [TS]

  parts of WDC sessions you know it's a [TS]

  it's distilling content down to a [TS]

  concentrated form because you have all [TS]

  these Apple engineers who wrote the [TS]

  stuff working on their presentations for [TS]

  you know weeks and months or however [TS]

  long they do it right that they give [TS]

  their presentations and I watch all [TS]

  their presentations then I find the [TS]

  things that I thought were interesting [TS]

  and distill them further than you get [TS]

  you know a Mac os10 review so without [TS]

  that stuff I don't have much to go off [TS]

  of me and anyone can click around in the [TS]

  OS and dig around in files with me it's [TS]

  much better to have you know from the [TS]

  horse's mouth explaining what the new [TS]

  ApS are like and the motivation behind [TS]

  them and stuff like that so I I saw the [TS]

  release dates that we didn't have any [TS]

  announced releases they just said summer [TS]

  so I said boy you know lion can come out [TS]

  at any time and align the first line [TS]

  developer builds we're looking pretty [TS]

  good in terms of stability and [TS]

  everything so I'm like aw what is this [TS]

  thing going to come out at WWDC before [TS]

  WWC I have to go other what that's my [TS]

  only my only chance to get some input [TS]

  from [TS]

  Apple engineers about this OS before I [TS]

  have to publish a review so I was kind [TS]

  of panicked about that a little bit less [TS]

  panic now because when they did that a [TS]

  announcement that said come to WEC to [TS]

  see previews of the next version of Mac [TS]

  OS 10 and iOS so when they say previews [TS]

  that makes me think the OS will not be [TS]

  released at the show like for Cranmer [TS]

  for consumers so that made me feel a [TS]

  little bit later but whatever what if [TS]

  it's released a week after the show or [TS]

  two weeks after the show maybe it'll be [TS]

  released in a window where I wouldn't [TS]

  have been able to see the videos yet [TS]

  even though Apple's really fast last [TS]

  year with the videos I think they had [TS]

  them up like two weeks after the show [TS]

  which was a record by far for their [TS]

  timeliness but I just felt like I had to [TS]

  go and I've been wanting to go for years [TS]

  and years and I've been talking with my [TS]

  wife about it I said you know someday I [TS]

  might want to go to this thing and it's [TS]

  a week long and it cost thousands of [TS]

  dollars and you know it's just really a [TS]

  fun thing for me and she said well you [TS]

  should go to one source get out of your [TS]

  system and this was the year you know [TS]

  and I knew I also knew that as soon as [TS]

  they announced the dates to the show it [TS]

  was going to be a kind of a click the [TS]

  button right now and by not I'd go home [TS]

  and talk to your wife I knew it was you [TS]

  know cos last year sold out so fast this [TS]

  year our new is going to be faster so as [TS]

  soon as that announcement came out which [TS]

  was luckily you know I was awake when it [TS]

  was announced this in Eastern Time and I [TS]

  I think I made just one either one phone [TS]

  call or I am - my wife did the confer [TS]

  confirmation I said well they've [TS]

  announced that should I do it or not and [TS]

  she just said go for it so I did got my [TS]

  ticket and I'm on my way [TS]

  this is exciting this is a big day this [TS]

  is a big day for Mac fans everywhere [TS]

  that know that you're going to be going [TS]

  out there and representing you know you [TS]

  represent Perl you represent [TS]

  five-by-five you're representing you [TS]

  know toaster ovens everywhere yeah I [TS]

  hand Ars Technica ours one wouldn't ship [TS]

  in send you know ours is sending people [TS]

  but they're gonna be the people you know [TS]

  are this actual staff and they're gonna [TS]

  be working they're gonna be reporting on [TS]

  the show I got it I gotta be honest I [TS]

  don't know I don't know the senior you [TS]

  know the bigwigs up at ours but the I [TS]

  only know about ours because of your [TS]

  reviews in it I'm not saying that they [TS]

  don't have any other value there they [TS]

  sure do but I got I became like an [TS]

  honors fan because of your 50 to 60 page [TS]

  you know Mac OS 10 reviews that were in [TS]

  there [TS]

  yeah but they I mean I write so [TS]

  infrequently these days and it does it's [TS]

  true that a lot of people came to ours [TS]

  because of me but they're not staying [TS]

  because of me I write like two things a [TS]

  year for them and the last thing the the [TS]

  lineage torvalds of Ars Technica if you [TS]

  want to say that I don't I'm I think [TS]

  it's fair at any rate they are sending [TS]

  people who will be working the show and [TS]

  doing reporting and I will not be doing [TS]

  that and even if they had I mean I [TS]

  probably if they had offered to pay for [TS]

  like my plane ticket or something like [TS]

  that or that the just the WotC ticket or [TS]

  something in exchange for me doing some [TS]

  amount of work when I was there I would [TS]

  have had to think about it because I [TS]

  really want to go there and not have to [TS]

  think about anything except for enjoying [TS]

  the show going to the sessions and doing [TS]

  stuff for my review yeah they all say [TS]

  what I feel you can't say which is shame [TS]

  on them I would not say shame one of [TS]

  course you would not I'll be glad to see [TS]

  the people who are going out there for [TS]

  ours and I think we only go in there [TS]

  like three days and I don't think [TS]

  they're staying for that I don't think [TS]

  they even got tickets to the actual [TS]

  conference something good is going as [TS]

  press to the keynote those people will [TS]

  be working much harder than I am for [TS]

  those three days I'll just be smiling [TS]

  and enjoying and they will be you know [TS]

  typing furiously and filing reports and [TS]

  stuff like that's all I'm glad that they [TS]

  have the real professionals doing it and [TS]

  not me [TS]

  ok nice disclaimer we have some a few [TS]

  follow-up how do you know you don't know [TS]

  what we have I'm just predicting you're [TS]

  right I don't know but I predict it you [TS]

  predict correctly amazing ah yeah so a [TS]

  little bit of follow-up Twitter we [TS]

  talked a little bit about a couple shows [TS]

  ago and then the last show we talked [TS]

  about Twitter annotations which were [TS]

  this way you can attach arbitrary extra [TS]

  data to tweets out-of-band well [TS]

  apparently I didn't read the page [TS]

  closely enough I looked at it and I saw [TS]

  the date and it was like from May 2010 [TS]

  and I didn't scrutinize it to see that [TS]

  they announced it in May 2010 but they [TS]

  didn't actually release it so someone [TS]

  wrote in to tell me that yeah that was a [TS]

  great presentation way back then but [TS]

  it's still not something that people can [TS]

  use but then the very [TS]

  same day I think this was a d9 or maybe [TS]

  it was someplace else Twitter actually [TS]

  did announce thing called tweet entities [TS]

  or Twitter entities which seemed like a [TS]

  reincarnation of this annotations thing [TS]

  it's just basically another way to [TS]

  attach things out-of-band to tweets and [TS]

  if you're using the REST API you have to [TS]

  ask for it explicitly blessing include [TS]

  entities and it will spit you back the [TS]

  associated entities but they're [TS]

  automatically include with the streaming [TS]

  API it's not clear from the very short [TS]

  page that I've got linked in the show [TS]

  notes about this tweet entities thing [TS]

  whether it's something that that [TS]

  everybody can use when they send a tweet [TS]

  or is it just something that Twitter [TS]

  sends back reading the page makes it [TS]

  sound like Twitter saying hey don't try [TS]

  parsing the URLs out of these tweets [TS]

  we'll send you back these entities which [TS]

  have the information it's already parsed [TS]

  out of it but does that mean the person [TS]

  who sent the tweet sent the entities [TS]

  with it or does Twitter too server-side [TS]

  parsing out the stuff using their own [TS]

  you know URL parsing stuff or maybe it [TS]

  only works with official try don't I [TS]

  don't know the entire deal is but anyway [TS]

  it's clear that there's some forward [TS]

  motion in the realm of out-of-band data [TS]

  on Twitter it's all still kind of tied [TS]

  up within the the notion of does Twitter [TS]

  control the platform to the degree where [TS]

  like it are is it only going to be [TS]

  something that Twitter's official [TS]

  clients can use and third-party clients [TS]

  are out of luck because Twitter doesn't [TS]

  really care about them anymore you know [TS]

  every time it order make some API [TS]

  announcement now I start thinking well [TS]

  is this an API thing that is only useful [TS]

  to Twitter's official clients or are you [TS]

  actually trying to encourage more [TS]

  third-party clients you know it's weird [TS]

  for a company that's been so quickly [TS]

  trying to pull all the clients into [TS]

  itself and to take control that to also [TS]

  be making API announcements because API [TS]

  strikes me is something that's for third [TS]

  party developers you know so I'm not [TS]

  sure what's going on there and then [TS]

  related to that that came up just a [TS]

  little bit before we started recording [TS]

  was this tweet Mark Steyn did you see [TS]

  that go by I did and I was just looking [TS]

  at that but you know I haven't had a [TS]

  much time to delve into it what's the [TS]

  story on that yeah this is a mountain [TS]

  Reese who does tweet library yeah which [TS]

  is an iOS application for archive [TS]

  tweets while he's also come out with a [TS]

  thing called tweet marks which is a [TS]

  service for keeping the year last read [TS]

  status in sync between different clients [TS]

  so it's like a web service where other [TS]

  I'm assuming other Twitter clients would [TS]

  use it and they would basically use this [TS]

  as a big bucket to store how far along [TS]

  the time line they are so if you had [TS]

  three clients that I'll use tweet marks [TS]

  anytime you pulled up a client it would [TS]

  be synced to whatever you last read [TS]

  whatever your last read tweet was across [TS]

  any of the clients where you read it now [TS]

  it boggles my mind that this service is [TS]

  not part of Twitter you know as this [TS]

  seems like something like what the hell [TS]

  is what are doing if it's not providing [TS]

  this service they they provide an API to [TS]

  get tweets they know people have clients [TS]

  to read them they don't think the people [TS]

  are going to keep their clients in sync [TS]

  maybe they just think it's like well you [TS]

  know they can everyone has to run their [TS]

  own server to keep track of how far [TS]

  they're along they're on the timeline [TS]

  well this is least trying to centralize [TS]

  it a little bit where every single [TS]

  Twitter client doesn't have to do its [TS]

  own service they could all use this [TS]

  tweet marks thing yeah yeah but it does [TS]

  okay well I was just going to say the [TS]

  problem with services like this which [TS]

  are really smart I mean this is a really [TS]

  great idea this is something that's so [TS]

  definitively great is that at the same [TS]

  time that is great it seems like that [TS]

  there would be I would think that people [TS]

  would hesitate as a developer as an app [TS]

  developer type person they would [TS]

  hesitate to use it simply because they [TS]

  know that as soon as they implemented [TS]

  Twitter could change it or come out with [TS]

  their own version of the service or [TS]

  what's you know is it something you want [TS]

  to use in the mean time and hope that [TS]

  that the Twitter doesn't wind up just [TS]

  doing it or changing the architecture in [TS]

  some way well it has the advantage of [TS]

  coming from a third party so I mean [TS]

  unless you think mantains gonna screw [TS]

  you which I don't think he's gon do you [TS]

  know like Twitter can't outlaw this [TS]

  because as far as Twitter is concerned [TS]

  this is a completely separate service [TS]

  it's just like storing and retrieving a [TS]

  number for you there's nothing really [TS]

  Twitter related to it they can't they [TS]

  can't illegally or technologically stop [TS]

  it from working and as long as you trust [TS]

  me and matthan to keep the servers up [TS]

  and running you know then you're fine [TS]

  with it no matter what Twitter does even [TS]

  a Twitter introduces the exact same [TS]

  service well then you have you have [TS]

  ample time to migrate off of tweet marks [TS]

  on to whatever [TS]

  Twitter provides it's a great idea it's [TS]

  a great and it is it's like it's one of [TS]

  those perfect services that you know you [TS]

  wonder why why wouldn't Witter be doing [TS]

  this and now you don't you have to worry [TS]

  about it yeah but from a man's [TS]

  perspective I would be afraid that like [TS]

  you do all this work on this service and [TS]

  you get some people using it and then [TS]

  you know Twitter just comes out and says [TS]

  well we did that for you you can get our [TS]

  service instead and then you kind of do [TS]

  feel like you're wasted your time and [TS]

  maybe he just needs to for his own [TS]

  applications and out of the goodness of [TS]

  his heart he's opening it up yeah so I [TS]

  don't know I just just just I just [TS]

  learned of this like you know an hour [TS]

  ago so I really don't know much about it [TS]

  he's right here in Austin - that guy man [TS]

  you should get him on the show I know [TS]

  him pretty well get him live in the [TS]

  studio uh yeah I I debate about it [TS]

  because a few years ago he said that he [TS]

  would send me a firewire cable and he [TS]

  never did he never made good on it and [TS]

  he promised he would do it and now [TS]

  sorry's on your enemies list now well I [TS]

  mean there's different I don't really [TS]

  feel like I have any enemies or anything [TS]

  but he's certainly not on he doesn't [TS]

  have a star next to his name and put [TS]

  that way all right you do though you [TS]

  have a big stevarino star new gold star [TS]

  you know speaking of tweet library man's [TS]

  other thing that's that's another [TS]

  service that you feel like Twitter [TS]

  should provide like why would I need an [TS]

  application to keep archived versions [TS]

  right eats well it's because Twitter [TS]

  lets the tweets fall off the end of the [TS]

  universe after like a couple of days and [TS]

  this this came up on Twitter today when [TS]

  the Twitter CEO was his name [TS]

  and Willie and not Abe Williams and I [TS]

  mean it was it was a Dorsey who was [TS]

  talking Jack Dorsey some someone from [TS]

  Twitter some bigwig from Ford was [TS]

  talking and I believe also at d9 and I [TS]

  was reading people's tweets from his [TS]

  presentation and I think was Joshua [TS]

  Topolsky if I'm saying his name right [TS]

  yeah brought up the fact that Twitter [TS]

  search doesn't go back past five days or [TS]

  so and therefore it's almost useless and [TS]

  why where are old tweets basically was [TS]

  was his his question and I've had the [TS]

  same thoughts they like you know you you [TS]

  do all this you spend all this time [TS]

  tweeting and then you can't get to your [TS]

  old tweets unless you remember the exact [TS]

  URL or you know you use Google or some [TS]

  other thing to find them I mean such a [TS]

  way that they don't exist though it's [TS]

  it's not actually correct to say that [TS]

  they're not actually accessible though [TS]

  is because they do exist [TS]

  like an example of this is if you favor [TS]

  to tweet you can go and you'll always [TS]

  see that in your favorites up to a point [TS]

  right or does it go away did those go [TS]

  away now - I think that if you had if [TS]

  you knew like the whatever that each [TS]

  tweet has an ID if you knew the big long [TS]

  ID of a tweet that you made in 2007 and [TS]

  2008 I think you could salt the page and [TS]

  get it but the thing is if you don't [TS]

  remember the exact ID because with AK [TS]

  memorizes their tweet IDs if some tweet [TS]

  you made last year you're like what was [TS]

  that tweet that I made about you know [TS]

  car distributor caps and you know you [TS]

  mentioned distributor cap in there it's [TS]

  probably unlikely to be you know see you [TS]

  go to Twitter search you do from [TS]

  Syracuse a register beuter cap and if [TS]

  you'll find no match it's because that [TS]

  search only goes back like five or ten [TS]

  days it's just useless and so it's left [TS]

  to everybody else to sort of archive [TS]

  their own tweets so that's why this [TS]

  tweet library app exists because he was [TS]

  sick of that obviously he was sick of [TS]

  not being able to keep track of his [TS]

  tweets he didn't want a favorite every [TS]

  single tweet that he wanted to otherwise [TS]

  your favoriting every other thing you [TS]

  know sometimes you just want to be able [TS]

  to to find it later I have the exact [TS]

  experience earlier this week where [TS]

  somebody mentioned to tip about how to [TS]

  get your iOS device syncing with your [TS]

  portable like if you're going to WABC [TS]

  for example and you write you're going [TS]

  to bring your ipod but you're going to [TS]

  bring your laptop but normally you sync [TS]

  with your Mac Pro which is my case here [TS]

  he said oh someone said you can just [TS]

  copy this file over to the new computer [TS]

  and then your iOS device will sync with [TS]

  is if it has always been singing with it [TS]

  and I remember seeing that tweak go by [TS]

  and going I should like star that or [TS]

  paste it into your Jimbo or do something [TS]

  with it so I remembered I'm like I'm [TS]

  sure I'll be able to look it up when I [TS]

  so when the time came I could remember [TS]

  who was from and I couldn't remember [TS]

  what day it was on and like I'll go I [TS]

  had to go backwards through my timeline [TS]

  you know on that page where you scroll [TS]

  down with the infinite scroll on the [TS]

  Twitter website and it loads more tweets [TS]

  and they scroll down that loads more [TS]

  tweets interestingly on Safari by the [TS]

  way if you do a search term like you [TS]

  know command F and you type a search [TS]

  term and this is okay not found if you [TS]

  scroll to the bottom of the page and it [TS]

  does the infinite scroll thing and it [TS]

  loads more tweets and you try to [TS]

  reinvent it will not find that word even [TS]

  if that word just appeared on the page [TS]

  below it I'm assuming this is far e bug [TS]

  where it doesn't notice that your dom [TS]

  nodes have been added and it doesn't [TS]

  search them so you have to stop cancel [TS]

  the search just miss the little short [TS]

  search sheet bring it back up type the [TS]

  same word again and search [TS]

  again that whole process is just [TS]

  ridiculous to me [TS]

  and of course I tried the Twitter search [TS]

  looking for the keywords and either had [TS]

  fallen off the end or I couldn't find it [TS]

  as I couldn't remember who was from it's [TS]

  just my best bet for a searching quarter [TS]

  these days is to go to you know Google [TS]

  on type site : twitter.com and then the [TS]

  words I'm looking for and sometimes in [TS]

  URL : the person's username that's like [TS]

  your only hope but yeah so that this [TS]

  tweet LibraryThing is another example of [TS]

  a service that the Twitter should be [TS]

  providing by all rights but is not and [TS]

  it kind of reminds me of the things in [TS]

  Mac OS 10 and even classic Mac OS that [TS]

  you thought Apple should have been [TS]

  providing but were provided for years [TS]

  and years by third parties until Apple [TS]

  finally woke up and folded them in like [TS]

  going all the way back to like the clock [TS]

  in the menu bar Apple didn't even [TS]

  provide that that had to be a third [TS]

  party app and they said all right fine [TS]

  we'll put clocking in the new bars like [TS]

  finally geez you know how many years did [TS]

  that take or window shade for example I [TS]

  which I believe me I don't know I don't [TS]

  know who's going to correct me we don't [TS]

  have a chat room here we're not live but [TS]

  right I believe window shade was was a [TS]

  third party first I don't know I'm [TS]

  getting to window shade was a third [TS]

  party tool absolutely and then well you [TS]

  know what I think it may have been it [TS]

  may have been a feature in OS light [TS]

  eight and then it was gone and then then [TS]

  it became a third party could that oh [TS]

  yeah no it was a Mac OS 10 of course [TS]

  there was never window shade and it had [TS]

  to be third a loss without this chat [TS]

  room yeah was it my insanity but I'm [TS]

  talking about like before it appeared in [TS]

  you know how like originally yeah I [TS]

  don't remember but anyway they're been [TS]

  all sorts of features that the were [TS]

  third one of that right there is gonna [TS]

  result in like 50 emails that's all [TS]

  right [TS]

  all right and actually I don't think [TS]

  anyone is old enough to remember that [TS]

  any better because anyone who was there [TS]

  is going to be our age and not remember [TS]

  it well and anyone else it you know [TS]

  young people going to go to Wikipedia [TS]

  and try to look it up feel free but [TS]

  anyway there's another example of a [TS]

  platform owner not implementing features [TS]

  that everyone else thinks are obvious [TS]

  and third parties I guess started [TS]

  parties get the advantage of you know [TS]

  filling that void for a period of time [TS]

  like if you're looking to archive [TS]

  tweet-tweet library is you know it's a [TS]

  chance permanent to have a business off [TS]

  of something that Twitter is not doing [TS]

  but on the other hand you're just [TS]

  waiting for that day where the platform [TS]

  owner says yeah we're folding that in [TS]

  now this sort of Damocles [TS]

  so listen I I actually found window [TS]

  shade Wikipedia entry it debuted in [TS]

  system 7.5 but disappeared in Mac OS 8 [TS]

  when the features implemented as part of [TS]

  the appearance manager a widget was [TS]

  added to the title bar to reproduce the [TS]

  functionality the entire feature [TS]

  disappeared at the release of Mac OS 10 [TS]

  since windows could be minimized [TS]

  to the dock or moved aside with expose [TS]

  Apple decided there was no more use for [TS]

  it however served several third-party [TS]

  utilities such as window shade 10 for [TS]

  unscented he's application enhancer [TS]

  software have brought the concept window [TS]

  shape back to the Mac OS it is since [TS]

  reappeared as a commercial hack c and [TS]

  offers other features like translucent [TS]

  windows and minimize in place it stems [TS]

  itself stems from a third party utility [TS]

  originally written for system 6.0 point [TS]

  7 by Rob Johnston there you go it's on [TS]

  Apple purchased the rights to the [TS]

  software from the developer for use in [TS]

  system 7.5 that's what I think a needy [TS]

  man just wants to get acquired by [TS]

  Twitter that's his whole thing my old [TS]

  man's memory is not entirely failing me [TS]

  yeah I actually just got off window [TS]

  shade took me a long time to get off [TS]

  that many years into is what almost [TS]

  eight nine ten years into me using Mac [TS]

  OS 10 and I finally had finally forced [TS]

  myself to give it up not because I [TS]

  didn't like it anymore but just because [TS]

  I it was the last thing on my system [TS]

  that was running a you know in-memory [TS]

  patcher thing well second to last I'm [TS]

  still running saft and Safari because [TS]

  they refused to restore the previously [TS]

  open windows when I launched it you [TS]

  could leave it with this Safari [TS]

  extension now yeah I know I I just [TS]

  prefer after a couple other reasons but [TS]

  yeah the shaft uses symbol which is a [TS]

  similar in memory patching thing but the [TS]

  window shade was the last one that I was [TS]

  using that was system-wide and I finally [TS]

  figured well if I can wean myself off of [TS]

  that then I could just remove that [TS]

  entire framework and I did it and it [TS]

  made me kind of sad I'm so glad those [TS]

  guys made that though because I don't [TS]

  know how I would have lived without it [TS]

  for all those years even now [TS]

  occasionally I click double click a [TS]

  title bar and then quietly frown as the [TS]

  window minimizes to the dock and our oh [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  it's not there anymore do you are you a [TS]

  minimizer or you a hider I never [TS]

  minimize when to almost never minimize [TS]

  windows to the dock [TS]

  I used to window shade windows a lot [TS]

  sometimes just to peek behind them [TS]

  sometimes just to get them mostly [TS]

  invisible but still be able to find them [TS]

  quickly but I since I don't have window [TS]

  shade anymore yeah I will hide others or [TS]

  option-click away from a nap I still use [TS]

  classic window layering by the way I [TS]

  don't think many people still do that or [TS]

  even know what it is but that that's the [TS]

  idea that when you click on any window [TS]

  from an application all the windows of [TS]

  that application come to the front [TS]

  that's the way it used to work in [TS]

  classic Mac OS and sort of my habits are [TS]

  predicated on that ability I always have [TS]

  like one window of an application poking [TS]

  out from behind the clutter so I can [TS]

  quickly get to you know for example my [TS]

  terminal windows this is usually one [TS]

  window that is skinny and to the far [TS]

  right of the screen so I can just poke [TS]

  it's a little edge and it will come and [TS]

  it will bring not just that terminal [TS]

  window forward but all of them forward [TS]

  and I have a modifier clicking Mac os10 [TS]

  lets me override that reverse D behavior [TS]

  that's volta Mac OS 10 without any [TS]

  extensions or anything is it when you [TS]

  click on a single window just a single [TS]

  window comes to the front and I can't [TS]

  work like that [TS]

  I suppose I could train myself to do it [TS]

  but I would probably slowly go insane I [TS]

  don't know you can click the dock the [TS]

  icon to make all the windows the [TS]

  application come to the forwards just [TS]

  it's just a question of habits and [TS]

  muscle memory and I'm not you know I [TS]

  have workflows man and they've been [TS]

  honed over what 20 years now it's really [TS]

  hard to to break them is is this because [TS]

  you is this because you like to because [TS]

  you don't like to command tab my command [TS]

  tab I can tab but mostly when I'm [TS]

  bouncing back and forth between two [TS]

  applications you know ABA be back and [TS]

  forth like that and if both of those [TS]

  applications dominate the screen mostly [TS]

  or if I'm mostly on the keyboard between [TS]

  the two applications I don't want to go [TS]

  over to the mouse but I do work when I [TS]

  arrange things on the screen I have I [TS]

  have arrangements of windows like I have [TS]

  a certain setup of how my terminal [TS]

  windows go and then I have a certain [TS]

  setup of how my text editor windows go [TS]

  all the text editor windows I have the [TS]

  least control over because once you get [TS]

  like 100 of those open which is not [TS]

  unheard of for me you arrange them and [TS]

  goes out the window and you're basically [TS]

  pulling from window list which isn't [TS]

  that bad but for the most applications [TS]

  like my [TS]

  I am application my terminal windows IRC [TS]

  windows and web browsers they are [TS]

  positioned on screen in their own little [TS]

  regions and have their own little growth [TS]

  patterns that I can form to so I can [TS]

  find quickly the application I want and [TS]

  hit really big targets to bring into the [TS]

  front without having to go down to the [TS]

  dock and hit the little icon or pick it [TS]

  out of the 18 other blue circles that [TS]

  are down there or I have used drag think [TS]

  2 or even just go over the drag thing [TS]

  dock and pick it out it's much faster [TS]

  for you know almost unconscious for me [TS]

  to just you know a push to the right [TS]

  middle and clicked on the corner of that [TS]

  terminal and oh that's pushing out the [TS]

  side to bring all my terminals forward [TS]

  and then quickly know where the you know [TS]

  this machine's terminal window is here [TS]

  and this machine terminal window is [TS]

  below it like it is it depends on like [TS]

  where I'm working what the machines are [TS]

  that I frequently have you know but I [TS]

  eventually get homes for things and I [TS]

  save those window sets in terminal so [TS]

  for example at work when I launch the [TS]

  terminal [TS]

  I had a keystroke that brings up my [TS]

  default set of windows and I know just [TS]

  by looking at the the size and position [TS]

  of the window that's this host that's [TS]

  that host that's the logs of this host [TS]

  that's my root window and this machine [TS]

  that's you know and it makes it so much [TS]

  easier and never have to read the title [TS]

  bars in fact all my title bars used to [TS]

  just say terminal because I would not [TS]

  rely on them to tell me where the [TS]

  windows were are rely on you know the [TS]

  position shape of the window and then [TS]

  once I go into ad I would look at my [TS]

  prompt to confirm that I'm not [TS]

  accidentally typing the wrong place oh [TS]

  yeah know how we got onto that from well [TS]

  from one's a great it's a great topic [TS]

  yeah so and and the final final bit of [TS]

  this is not really I guess this doesn't [TS]

  count as fault but we'll cut the [TS]

  follow-up here and say that's the end of [TS]

  the follow-up and okay as for topics for [TS]

  the show I've been spending all my time [TS]

  worrying about getting ready for WotC so [TS]

  this is the title of the show will be I [TS]

  got nothing because I have no prepared [TS]

  topic for the show whatsoever but that [TS]

  doesn't mean there's that doesn't mean [TS]

  there's not things to talk about and I [TS]

  have some suggestions but I'm sure you [TS]

  have some discussions too so why I'd [TS]

  like let's start with you I mean really [TS]

  I see this is very much a show driven by [TS]

  your creative intellect so I'd like to [TS]

  first hear your suggestions and and then [TS]

  I have some as a fallback if those [TS]

  should be subpar alright so just before [TS]

  we came on the air like literally just [TS]

  before I saw this announcement on daring [TS]

  fireball that brent simmons has sold net [TS]

  newswire [TS]

  yeah and that seems like a story to me [TS]

  worth talking about the only other thing [TS]

  I think to think about was you know [TS]

  obviously assuming record next week will [TS]

  be will be recording talking about what [TS]

  happened to every DC because that'll [TS]

  kind of be dominating the news I'm sure [TS]

  and even though you will talk about [TS]

  exactly the same things with Gruber and [TS]

  Marco it doesn't matter I think I'm [TS]

  going to talk about them too because I [TS]

  feel like I feel like we should [TS]

  definitely do that I feel like maybe if [TS]

  this is the unfortunate thing about the [TS]

  timing of my move and and the slow [TS]

  processes of us finding a new place to [TS]

  be because if I had my full set up I [TS]

  would say well why don't we do and I'm [TS]

  just going to tell everyone that this [TS]

  would have been possible because there's [TS]

  no way it's simply impossible now so [TS]

  I'll just tell everyone how great it [TS]

  would have been it would have been to [TS]

  get everybody together you know you [TS]

  Marco and Gruber and maybe even a fourth [TS]

  person to all uh be on the show and it [TS]

  would be a special show we just have [TS]

  some kind of special show and all just [TS]

  everybody contributing talk and argue [TS]

  and reminisce about the wonderful time [TS]

  we can't do it yeah there'll be time for [TS]

  that in the future and I'm sure that [TS]

  will happen in real life [TS]

  without you yeah that'd be great nope [TS]

  Ellen recording at hopefully yeah nobody [TS]

  recording you guys all sitting together [TS]

  at you know it's some smoky bar in that [TS]

  smoke the bowels of San Francisco yeah [TS]

  but uh but for this week you I think you [TS]

  talked about what could be happening WTC [TS]

  but I think that's so worth talking [TS]

  about [TS]

  so I was like those are my two things [TS]

  that what might happen at WotC and that [TS]

  news bar being sold and you can what are [TS]

  your suggestions [TS]

  well actually I I had seen this this [TS]

  announcement interview rather here that [TS]

  I haven't had a chance to read it [TS]

  because it's it's quite long and who [TS]

  knew that people still did interviews in [TS]

  text form like this I it's 2011 and yet [TS]

  there are still text interviews it's [TS]

  trans [TS]

  some people who type things in and this [TS]

  is you know in in the way that I [TS]

  frequently joke that your stuff is long [TS]

  and very very verbose John Gruber [TS]

  occasionally will do quite the same [TS]

  thing 5,000 words for a first single [TS]

  topic was my joke I used to have for him [TS]

  but this is this is like the most [TS]

  in-depth interview about this and it's a [TS]

  big deal it's a big deal in the Mac [TS]

  community the long shortened the tall of [TS]

  it is net newswire as you mentioned it's [TS]

  it's been acquired in in its entirety [TS]

  from black by black pixel which is run [TS]

  by Daniel Pascoe friend of mine and it's [TS]

  probably safe to say I guess I can I say [TS]

  this the black pixel are the guys I'm [TS]

  working with to develop the 5x5 app they [TS]

  already said that themselves in the [TS]

  interview if you're on that yeah I [TS]

  haven't gotten more than about a third [TS]

  in before we had to start the show [TS]

  so it I guess I can say it but yeah it's [TS]

  so they're they're great guys I've met [TS]

  Daniel back at a railsconf a couple [TS]

  years ago when I was speaking he came up [TS]

  to me at the end I'd never met him in [TS]

  person he's a great guy and they're [TS]

  based out of Seattle and I believe that [TS]

  Brent Simmons is also based out of [TS]

  Seattle as well so it makes sense to me [TS]

  but it's interesting because this Abnett [TS]

  newswire for me was the very very first [TS]

  RSS news reader that I ever used and I [TS]

  know it'll be in good hands with these [TS]

  guys but it's interesting because that's [TS]

  always the fear when something gets [TS]

  acquired that they're going to shut it [TS]

  down and it it sounds like there's a [TS]

  that's not the plan it sounds like this [TS]

  is very much a living breathing app and [TS]

  will continue to be so yeah they're not [TS]

  going to shut it down I can assure you [TS]

  of that [TS]

  yeah having only read half of the [TS]

  interview you know about this net net [TS]

  news of our acquisition I'm like I can [TS]

  actually in as I usually do turn this [TS]

  around and make it about me that the the [TS]

  thing about net newswire I'm I'm a long [TS]

  time net news of our user I've been [TS]

  using it since not since version one but [TS]

  buttons close to it and I very very [TS]

  quickly a convert right to net newswire [TS]

  like it changed the way I use my [TS]

  computer it changed like the ratio of [TS]

  which applications that I'm using [TS]

  at certain points I was doing the [TS]

  majority of my reading of webpages in [TS]

  the browser that was embedded in the [TS]

  news water that may still actually be [TS]

  the case I'm not sure I just lived in [TS]

  the thing and I love the synchronization [TS]

  between machines and I loves it you know [TS]

  being able to queue up stuff in tabs I [TS]

  they're not really tabs but you know you [TS]

  could open a web page in the embedded [TS]

  net newswire browser and when you went [TS]

  onto another machine and opened that [TS]

  news wire that opened web page would [TS]

  still be in there in this little side [TS]

  scrolling list of all the little things [TS]

  you had open so before Instapaper [TS]

  newswire was my read later button I [TS]

  would just you know I would go through [TS]

  my feeds using using keyboard shortcuts [TS]

  which I always thought of as the tin /rn [TS]

  keyboard shortcuts I don't know who [TS]

  listening this remembers with ten nrn [TS]

  were but they were terminal-based [TS]

  cursive you know character based I don't [TS]

  know how you would describe to laypeople [TS]

  applications they use from within the [TS]

  terminal window at a shell promptly use [TS]

  the cursors library or whatever to [TS]

  display text and they had kind of like [TS]

  command keys that were like VI where [TS]

  there was no modifier keystroke you [TS]

  would just type you know K to mark [TS]

  things as read not command K but just K [TS]

  or spacebar to go to the next unread you [TS]

  know and so on and so forth well then [TS]

  whose wire whether intentionally or not [TS]

  then we actually know if Brent was [TS]

  basing his keyboard shortcuts often in [TS]

  RM but it sure seems like he was because [TS]

  there were a lot of the same shortcuts [TS]

  so I had used you know tin is my main [TS]

  using that news reader way back in the [TS]

  day it was nice smooth transition into [TS]

  this gorgeous GUI Mac OS 10 application [TS]

  they used the exact same keystrokes and [TS]

  the other one that I loved about about [TS]

  this thing is that you could move the [TS]

  selection in that newswire between the [TS]

  panes using the arrow keys it just felt [TS]

  so natural no modifier keys so I could [TS]

  read the news you know read RSS feeds [TS]

  look at the summaries and look at the [TS]

  articles and queue them up for later [TS]

  reading all from the keyboard all the [TS]

  simple single keystrokes you know it was [TS]

  just without having to touch the mouse [TS]

  and with the great experience overall so [TS]

  that totally changed the way I do things [TS]

  and I still you know I mean if you look [TS]

  at my doc right now in Andrews wire is [TS]

  running it is running and every machine [TS]

  that I use and I've just been using it [TS]

  for years but the thing about it is that [TS]

  well first of all I get frustrated when [TS]

  an application that rely upon doesn't [TS]

  get updated as frequently as I want [TS]

  Brent talks about the struggles he's had [TS]

  with [TS]

  having you know too many irons in the [TS]

  fire at the same time the iOS version [TS]

  the iPad version revising the Mac [TS]

  version it was just becoming too much to [TS]

  do all that and in fact even before that [TS]

  when brent was just trying to know what [TS]

  newswire from mac himself just a support [TS]

  load alone of having this tremendously [TS]

  popular application was overwhelming him [TS]

  and that's why he went over to news [TS]

  Gator and got acquired by them and just [TS]

  to get some help on the application [TS]

  right and so there was you know that [TS]

  helps get get a speed under a little bit [TS]

  but then when the Iowas came out that [TS]

  just you know spread him even thinner [TS]

  now going around going back in time for [TS]

  a second you're talking about that news [TS]

  gator acquisition i interviewed him [TS]

  about that years ago when it happened on [TS]

  my one of my first podcasts which was [TS]

  called the hive illogic radio show he [TS]

  was nice enough to come on that and and [TS]

  talk to me about it and it was really [TS]

  interesting because at that time I mean [TS]

  he that he there was really not much [TS]

  competition in that space as far as RSS [TS]

  news reading it wasn't built into Safari [TS]

  right there weren't really many [TS]

  competitors if you wanted an RSS reader [TS]

  on the Mac that was it I think it still [TS]

  is it I mean I know there are [TS]

  alternative applications but like I [TS]

  remember that error that they already [TS]

  did that interview which I think [TS]

  actually listened to net newswire was [TS]

  the most popular news reader in the [TS]

  world not the most popular news reader [TS]

  on the Macintosh in the world and that [TS]

  was at a time when when the world was [TS]

  like 95 96 percent Windows computers [TS]

  instead of whatever it is nine and he [TS]

  you know it was just an unbelievably [TS]

  successful application and I still think [TS]

  it with all the Mac news readers that [TS]

  are out there that news wire is at least [TS]

  the best suited to my needs for news [TS]

  reading and you know the fact that [TS]

  Safari does RSS reading I don't think [TS]

  that is a factor at all in the success [TS]

  or failure in news wire but on the iOS I [TS]

  would say that net newswire is Iowa's [TS]

  versions are not the dominant news [TS]

  reader to that platform there are a lot [TS]

  of really good news readers for iOS and [TS]

  the competition is much stiffer there [TS]

  than it is in the Mac I don't know that [TS]

  should because the popularity of iOS or [TS]

  the gold rush was just you know that's [TS]

  where the the great developers are these [TS]

  days but of course Brent's there with [TS]

  his versions as well but more recently [TS]

  if you read about an interview that [TS]

  brentd [TS]

  pulled out the guts of all his [TS]

  newsreaders or not pulled out the guts [TS]

  left the guts alone and made a new core [TS]

  code base for all of his news readers [TS]

  and he released that news wire for light [TS]

  I believe is the name of the product [TS]

  which is the first product built on this [TS]

  new unified code base for the underlying [TS]

  stuff for you know getting feeds and [TS]

  managing threads and processing XML and [TS]

  all that stuff and then he was you know [TS]

  an interview he talks about how he was [TS]

  looking at how much work it would be [TS]

  even though he's finally got this [TS]

  unified code base how much work it would [TS]

  be to rebuild his existing applications [TS]

  on top of this new code base now the [TS]

  thing about net newswire for light is [TS]

  that it does much much less than the [TS]

  current version of net newswire for the [TS]

  Mac that I'm using which is three points [TS]

  something-or-other [TS]

  which is fine because it's got light in [TS]

  the name right but the my big fear was [TS]

  that the new version of net newswire for [TS]

  the Mac based on this unified codebase [TS]

  will also do much less than the current [TS]

  version of the newswire simply because [TS]

  Brent was always trying to trim features [TS]

  that either don't get used anymore or [TS]

  are too much of a pain to maintain you [TS]

  know it's a cost benefit trade-off where [TS]

  you want to get like the the features [TS]

  that 80% of the people use you know 80% [TS]

  of the time and then everything else [TS]

  gets cut because you don't want to spend [TS]

  time and energy maintaining a feature [TS]

  that only some tiny fraction or [TS]

  user-based used but if you're in that [TS]

  tiny fraction of the user base which I [TS]

  most decidedly am for a wide range of [TS]

  applications including that newswire I [TS]

  was afraid that the application that I [TS]

  came to know was going to be not not [TS]

  dumbed down because that makes it sound [TS]

  like is something you know it's it's not [TS]

  good to have it better to have more [TS]

  features and it's not good to be [TS]

  simplified it usually is better to be [TS]

  simplified but I was afraid that it was [TS]

  going to move farther away from my [TS]

  specific tastes and needs as it moved [TS]

  more towards the mainstream you know [TS]

  what I mean and that's that's a [TS]

  something that's happened a lot in iOS [TS]

  where iOS encourages you to simplify [TS]

  because if more people will be [TS]

  successful with your application but [TS]

  right as a your quote-unquote power user [TS]

  from you know to use that term from the [TS]

  80s and 90s I like the one that had all [TS]

  the bells and whistles or more [TS]

  specifically I want my specific bells [TS]

  and whistles that I'm perfectly happy [TS]

  for you to cut 90% of the features as [TS]

  long as the 10% is remaining is the [TS]

  exact 10% that I use and of course [TS]

  that's never going to happen so this is [TS]

  a specific case of a more general [TS]

  phenomenon where if you use an [TS]

  application for years [TS]

  come to like take this perverse sort of [TS]

  sense of ownership over the three [TS]

  features in the application that you use [TS]

  and if a developer is conscientious and [TS]

  developing the application actively it's [TS]

  it's incumbent upon them to probably at [TS]

  some point cut your pet features simply [TS]

  because applications evolve the user [TS]

  base evolves and like what is accepted [TS]

  as a level of complexity for an [TS]

  application changes over time [TS]

  so you may be married to a particular [TS]

  esoteric feature and think this is the [TS]

  whole reason I use this application how [TS]

  can you remove it well if you're the [TS]

  only one of you know 0.02 percent of the [TS]

  people who use this app who rely on that [TS]

  feature the developer should cut it and [TS]

  you're just out of luck but it's sad for [TS]

  me when that happens so I was really [TS]

  afraid that my my net newswire my [TS]

  application that I know and love would [TS]

  change in ways that what I would find [TS]

  upsetting and I'd be like Waldo had to [TS]

  find another news reader that I like now [TS]

  can I adapt to this new way using the [TS]

  news bar it's just it's stressful and [TS]

  upsetting mmm the best applications that [TS]

  this is a difficult balancing act so the [TS]

  best applications that do this like I [TS]

  don't really know what the success [TS]

  formula is but when I think about what [TS]

  are applications that I've used for a [TS]

  long time that have evolved in ways that [TS]

  if I look at what the applications like [TS]

  today and look at what it was like 10 [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  they're wildly different but in no point [TS]

  during that period of time that I feel [TS]

  like the rug was pulled out from under [TS]

  me [TS]

  that's a difficult thing to pull off a [TS]

  few that I can think of our probably BB [TS]

  edit because BB etic is just radically [TS]

  change from what it was you know in like [TS]

  1992 or whatever but at every point [TS]

  along the way they've cut deprecated [TS]

  features slowly giving you replacements [TS]

  for features and just slowly like herded [TS]

  the user base along even as they just [TS]

  mercilessly removed code remove co2 move [TS]

  code that change has actually been [TS]

  accelerating lately and at some points [TS]

  I've been a little bit uncomfortable but [TS]

  for the most part they have managed that [TS]

  transition with this long gradual slope [TS]

  of of deprecation and replacement that I [TS]

  think has been very successful and the [TS]

  other one I would say this is kind of [TS]

  bad for me to say because I'm not a not [TS]

  an expert user of this application by a [TS]

  longshot but I have been using it for [TS]

  you know since version 1 point out is [TS]

  Photoshop Photoshop has you [TS]

  it's very different today than it was [TS]

  and you know very I know whatever right [TS]

  but with the exception of the [TS]

  introduction of layers in 3.0 I think it [TS]

  was there was every every time they make [TS]

  a new version it's not a radical deep [TS]

  over the Nexus like we're refining we're [TS]

  adding tools we're kit were [TS]

  consolidating we're refining refining [TS]

  refining and when you have a [TS]

  professional tool like that that's the [TS]

  way you want to do it so that at no [TS]

  point do graphic designers say load up a [TS]

  new version of Photoshop and say I can't [TS]

  find anything I have no idea how this [TS]

  works now you know designers and anyone [TS]

  whose uses a program every day for years [TS]

  will get pissed when like they change [TS]

  the keyboard shortcut for you know the [TS]

  command H does something that it [TS]

  shouldn't anymore like it'll little [TS]

  things were perturbed them but for the [TS]

  most part it's not like they had to [TS]

  relearn a new application so that those [TS]

  are two examples of applications I think [TS]

  have evolved in a careful cautious [TS]

  manner but that's not always easy to do [TS]

  and in fact it's it's harder because [TS]

  like every feature that you wish you [TS]

  could get rid of you have to support for [TS]

  longer than you think you should just so [TS]

  you you bring everybody along with you [TS]

  right and the final example give this is [TS]

  a this will be a good test to see if you [TS]

  can do it the other way successfully in [TS]

  a big application is Final Cut Pro 10 [TS]

  which does look like a pretty darn [TS]

  radical reinvention of the way people [TS]

  who use Final Cut do their work it's [TS]

  it's akin to the kind of the the 2.5 to [TS]

  3 point no conversion Photoshop where [TS]

  they said you know channels are out and [TS]

  layers are in and here's this new layer [TS]

  palette and in both cases I think after [TS]

  people get over the initial shock like [TS]

  of layers they said well you know I'm [TS]

  used to having 10 million little [TS]

  Photoshop windows open and doing my [TS]

  chops my channel operations but I tried [TS]

  this layer thing for a week and you know [TS]

  what it's better and you know period end [TS]

  of story you know yes it was a big [TS]

  radical change but layers are good I [TS]

  think the the graphic design community [TS]

  pretty much agreed Photoshop plus layers [TS]

  equals good and got over their problem [TS]

  now Final Cut Pro 10 is it good enough [TS]

  is it better enough than the previous [TS]

  version of Final Cut so that the the big [TS]

  bump in the road for people smoothness [TS]

  of using their you know final cut on [TS]

  their color coded keyboards with the [TS]

  keyboard commands exactly the same and [TS]

  you know they know exactly how to use [TS]

  Final Cut Pro the current version that [TS]

  is ten comes along everything's moved in [TS]

  different places and maybe they change [TS]

  keyboard commands everything works [TS]

  definitely the timeline is different [TS]

  like is that going to be better enough [TS]

  that people's cranking this over the [TS]

  change in the UI [TS]

  we'll be overcome I think it will be [TS]

  view I think from the little demo and [TS]

  again speaking as someone who does not [TS]

  edit video for a living what the hell do [TS]

  I know but from the demo that they gave [TS]

  which was an amazingly good demo and [TS]

  from the tiny bit of video editing that [TS]

  I have done I can say that Final Cut Pro [TS]

  10 looks like the advantages of working [TS]

  in this new way will quickly overwhelm [TS]

  the disadvantages modulo the stability [TS]

  question reliability question so-and-so [TS]

  is always in there like if if the [TS]

  program crashes more if I can't read [TS]

  your old files are all sorts of [TS]

  practical concerns assuming they get all [TS]

  the practical things right and the only [TS]

  real problem is adapting to this new UI [TS]

  and workflow I think it will work so [TS]

  getting all way back to the newswire [TS]

  finally my hope for the acquisition not [TS]

  that anyone cares what the hell my help [TS]

  is but my hope as much as that counts [TS]

  for anybody involved in this is that [TS]

  this means that net newswire the next [TS]

  version of that newswire will still have [TS]

  all the features that I like you know [TS]

  will still will will nestled into my [TS]

  workflow nicely maybe there'll be a few [TS]

  things I want to adapt to but it will [TS]

  still be like that power users tool you [TS]

  know the way I use it or at least the [TS]

  three features that I want to stay there [TS]

  will still be there and and you know the [TS]

  only other thing I would say is that I [TS]

  think in acquisition if the people who [TS]

  acquired have more time to work on it [TS]

  that Brent did that can only be good [TS]

  yeah that definitely would be a good [TS]

  thing because that means that no matter [TS]

  what their choices are [TS]

  it means shorter time between versions [TS]

  and if I don't like something I won't [TS]

  have to wait three years to see if it [TS]

  gets revised you know so I'm mostly [TS]

  optimistic about the acquisition and I'm [TS]

  very interested to know what Brent is [TS]

  doing next which we ever do actually no [TS]

  I actually do know did you probably know [TS]

  about the dock addition to it didn't you [TS]

  I knew a little bit about it I didn't [TS]

  know as much as his apparently revealed [TS]

  in the staring fireball write-up [TS]

  interview the ten thousand page [TS]

  interview but I did know some things but [TS]

  I certainly do know what Brent is up to [TS]

  next and I can tell you that I like it [TS]

  but I can't speak about well I'm looking [TS]

  forward to it because at anytime you [TS]

  know there's a few in my pantheon of [TS]

  developers is a few little places and [TS]

  like you know the the Mount Olympus of [TS]

  developers and up on there are basically [TS]

  the developers [TS]

  of applications that I've used like for [TS]

  my entire life that I feel like are part [TS]

  of my computing life right right right [TS]

  and and the people up there like you [TS]

  know Brent Simmons with a newswire rich [TS]

  seagull with BBEdit [TS]

  you know the Bruce horn with the finder [TS]

  and who is it but Larry Steve Bruce and [TS]

  John for the original finder Leo I are [TS]

  you getting a Photoshop to John Knoll [TS]

  who is who was the original Photoshop [TS]

  guy I don't know you don't know awesome [TS]

  anyway but yet brent is up there with [TS]

  them and that's all text you can make [TS]

  one application that I use for years and [TS]

  years and years and can't live without [TS]

  you get a spot on my personal mantle is [TS]

  Olympus a software developer so whatever [TS]

  he does next I look forward to it and [TS]

  and even if it's not an application that [TS]

  I use for years and years I wish them [TS]

  the best of luck with it well that about [TS]

  does it for this week's show you can [TS]

  follow John on Twitter at siracusa si [TS]

  RAC USA nosy [TS]

  I'm Dan benjamin on twitter we'd also [TS]

  love it if you could take a minute to [TS]

  rate the show on iTunes it really really [TS]

  helps us it helps us with new listeners [TS]

  finding out about the show and it also [TS]

  really helps us with getting great [TS]

  sponsors to put in front of you guys so [TS]

  go to iTunes look up hypercritical and [TS]

  rate the show hopefully you'll write us [TS]

  well i've also visit 5x5 TV find out [TS]

  about other shows and older episodes of [TS]

  this show [TS]

  thanks to istockphoto.com slash 5x5 and [TS]

  MailChimp calm for making a show [TS]

  possible and as always thanks so much [TS]

  for you guys for tuning in we'll see [TS]

  y'all again next week [TS]

  you [TS]