19: Don't Make Me Read
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this is hypercritical weekly talkshow
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ruminating on exactly what is wrong in
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the microcosm of Apple from related
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technologies and businesses nothing is
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so perfect that it cannot be destroyed
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by my co-host John siracusa i'm dan
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benjamin and this is episode 19 like to
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say a quick thank you to our two
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sponsors today get harvest calm and felt
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tips sound studio for which we'll tell
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you about is a program commences how are
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you John I'm pretty good it's a good day
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for you today it's Friday before a
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holiday weekend yeah it's gonna be nice
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we got a hard stop at an hour though
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hard stop I mean like hard is slam the
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slam the laptop shut walk out the door
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kind of hard stop we'll see what we can
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do I hate doing that to you because I
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know you like to go along Sarah I think
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by the time an hour is up this room will
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be put darn hot you know you're out the
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summer podcasting situation oh I don't
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think I can have the a/c on because it
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will be too noisy that's what I'm just
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doing turning it off oh why don't you
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throw it off flip the switch you'll see
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I don't want you to suffer she shouldn't
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have to suffer for your art in 2011 I'll
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go as long as I can we'll say well just
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turn it on let's see here at the noise
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and alright Anna that might not be bad
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once we get you a good mic it won't be
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bad I'm not editing any of this out it's
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all stays what do you think I don't hear
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a thing no reason for you to suffer it
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alright I'll leave it on and leave it on
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I don't want you to said be tough I mean
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you you're angry enough as it is
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haven't you sweating in a sweat box in
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there and then your old family is a dad
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terrible alright let's get started on
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the clock we're on the clock
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yep let's go we're starting to up time
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yeah so what I did last week is I timed
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how long it took my toaster to toast a
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piece of bread ah starting from a cold
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start what did you do last week I moved
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1,300 miles across the country but did
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your time your toaster no I didn't I did
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not it was in a box and a moving truck
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unbelievable I know how long did it take
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I was close with my estimate it took
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five minutes and eight second what for
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single piece of bread come on five
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minutes and 18 seconds I find it that's
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not I know that's that's and you're
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asking me last week like how long would
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you take I just had to long well that's
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that is to or that really long too long
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it's just too darn long like next day it
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doesn't seem like a long time the next
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time you wake up in the morning look at
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your clock and wait until the hand moves
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five minutes and think that's how long
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to get in Stokes that's how long John
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siracusa waits for his toast no good
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that is really a long time now before
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you get it too much into your tirade
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here III just want to say straight up at
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the front of this at the top of the show
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the the biggest response that I saw
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coming in about toasters was if what he
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wants is toast why doesn't he just use a
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slot toaster oven they make really good
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toast and both sides get toasted and
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only takes like 45 seconds see when we
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just jump right to that point sure uh I
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I thought that kind of went without
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saying maybe it's just I thought it was
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implied in my discussion of toaster
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ovens that I want to toaster oven
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because I use the oven part of it I
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didn't talk about the oven part of it
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because that wasn't just kept talking
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that toast right but at the toast was
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the part doesn't work in the toaster up
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in the oven part of the toaster oven
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you know it works like an oven I don't
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have particular complaints about that
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part and the next question is well why
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not just get both of them on I have a
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slot toaster for toast and a toaster
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oven for whatever you use that for I
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just don't have the counter space for
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two appliances you know so it's like we
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have room for the toaster oven but no
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place really to put the slot toaster
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where we could get one so if I'm forced
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to choose between the two appliances I
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pick the one that can do two different
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things and I mentioned in the last show
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that you shouldn't be making pizza in
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your toaster I meant like cooking pizza
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one thing that you should be using your
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toaster for or your oven is for things
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like reheating a slice of pizza you
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should not reheat the leftover pizza in
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the microwave it just becomes a soggy
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disgustingness if you have a lot of
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pizza to reheat yeah use your oven but
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if it's if you just have one slice of
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pizza and you want to heat it up for
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lunch or something let's put the toaster
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oven is for um and it works right even
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my crappy toaster heats up the pizza
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just fine so that that's the slot
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toaster oven thing actually it I'll
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circle back to it after I talk about
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this next bit here so this is the best
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part about having a podcast or popular
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podcast we got in an email from someone
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who used to design toasters at Sunbeam
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in the 1980s and he described all the
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different aspects of toasters and why
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I'm unhappy with my toaster a nice long
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email this is exactly the kind of thing
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you're looking for like an expert guy
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who's been there and wrenches oh yeah to
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toaster technology so I'm not gonna go
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into every detail that he got we got two
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but the main thing he pinpointed about
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my toaster and the reason it takes so
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long is because it uses a steel tube
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with internal coiled resistant wire
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surrounding an electrical insulating
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chip to produce heat I think I just
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mangled that but anyway it's the thing
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that heats up the thing that turns
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orange is of a particular type that
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takes a long time to heat up and his his
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estimate was that it's going to take
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like at least two minutes before that
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thing starts glowing orange and the
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glowing orange part is important because
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toasters heat up things in different
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ways the way he listed was a conduction
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convection and radiation and radiation
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heat is the one you want to like brown
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your toast and that only happens once
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you once the thing turns orange is a my
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impression for reading this email so
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since it takes my toaster two minutes
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even to get that thing glowing orange
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right away that that first two minutes
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is not making you toast what it is doing
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is it basically baking your bread or
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turning it into a crouton or doing
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something that's not real like it's
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making it hot and strong it out but it's
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not toasting it and the the the
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benchmark for good toast is apparently
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you want the outside to be toasted and
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like lightly carbonized right or browned
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or whatever but the inside should not be
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all dried out it should still be like
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moist you shouldn't have taken every
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ounce of water and evaporated it out of
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the middle of the toast so the longer
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that piece of bread sits in there the
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more it becomes a crouton the less it
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becomes toast which is why slot toasters
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make better toast because they very
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quickly heat the outsides of the bread
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and yes they do it evenly and so on and
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so forth and because they do it so
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quickly the inside is still moist when
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they pop up you've got a toasted outside
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the end of oyster inside now obviously
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I'm not a toast kind of store all I just
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want is the top and bottom to be cooked
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relatively evenly and I can see how what
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what he's saying is true that if I had a
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slot toaster the inside of my
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would be more moist than it is in this
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toaster because for the first two
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minutes is just you know taking moisture
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out of the bread that that doesn't
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magically give me more counter space but
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it does make me consider like is there
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something else I can move on the
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counters to make room for a slot toaster
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because maybe this is worth doing if I
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can find a good slot toaster just to
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just to see what the what it's like to
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have better toast but I think I would
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also be happy with a working toaster
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oven so this guy I should give his name
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there Lowell Burnham some other thing he
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mentioned was uh different kinds of
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heating elements and toasters another
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one is a a radiant coil inside a clear
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quartz tube which apparently glows
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orange in about 15 seconds it gets much
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hotter than the steel thing does the
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only problem with that is that it could
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have a tendency to scorch because it
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does get so hot so it's like it's like a
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balancing between the steel elements
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that I have that probably do a better
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job of baking without scorching versus
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these which do a better job of toasting
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and it is apparently a fairly big
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balancing act to get a toaster oven that
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does toast well does oven well it's a
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constant trade-off which is why he was
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basically saying you're never going to
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get a toaster oven that makes his good
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toast is slot toaster because it's
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trying to do too many different things
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and everything that works towards making
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better toast works against the oven
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function I I still was like something
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that has a reasonable balance and I felt
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like I had a reasonable balance back in
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the day he mentioned at the old Black &
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Decker I was talking about was actually
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AG small appliances oven that changed
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owners when G was sold to black & decker
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so it should it shows that there is some
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memory of like that one model that we
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were all talking about it rang up I'm
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also saying Westinghouse I don't know if
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that was a related brand but back in the
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day when there were fewer models
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apparently whatever balance that one
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struck over many years of refinement and
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development I liked that balance and if
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I could find one that had that balance I
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would take it and it was nice to see
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that in the show notes for last week's
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show after it was over you added your
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toaster and and Marko's toaster and then
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I added my toaster so if you go back to
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last week's show notes you can find
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amazon links to all three of our
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toasters and compare them if you look at
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the amazon reviews or my toaster there's
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some horrible ones in there nobody likes
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it surprise surprise
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one person sided exploded firing shards
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of glass everywhere mine has done that
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yet but it's definitely not a good
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toaster yeah your toaster was like 180
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bucks as predicted right and Marcos was
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in that price range too but I got to
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tell you after looking at your toaster
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and hearing your your reviews of it and
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looking at the reviews online or reading
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the manual and looking at the
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measurements and everything I'm tempted
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to give your toaster a try so it's I put
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it on the Amazon wish list well I'll
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tell I'll tell you what you my wife
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researched this toaster and she is she
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is the best at researching things and at
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finding you know I don't want to say
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finding deals because it's not about
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that it's finding the right quality to
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cost ratio and she did a lot she did
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liked a lot of research on this toaster
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and because I had to look a certain way
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and be a certain thing with the other
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thing and she this is really the
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culmination of a lot of her you know her
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research combined with my somewhat
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specific requirements of the that you
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know when I do want to cook something in
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or do something it has to be a certain
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thing as to easy-to-clean really like
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this toaster I don't think Marcos
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toaster is worth your time I get I would
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didn't but is on my wish list that
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interface look bad and I that is his
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buttons were underneath the lit the the
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front lid thing that flaps down like
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when you open it you're covering the
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controls that seems silly to my strange
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this is also I think a little bit bigger
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your measurements are actually very
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similar to the measurements of my
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toaster so it would fit in the spot I
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have on it for the counter so anyway
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it's on the list maybe I'll ask for it
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as a Christmas present I maybe I will
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buy it for you guys because don't that
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be an exciting Christmas toaster maybe
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we should take a little donation from
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the audience that one that want you to
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have this and we you know take a little
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funds or something you don't have to
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pass the Hat I can I can afford a
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toaster it's just a question of pulling
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the trigger deciding that I want this in
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my life and that I can't handle the
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toaster that I have now or should I just
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continue to use the toaster that I have
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now until it actually does melt into a
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pile of cheap plastic and bright metal
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well because I have no idea where we're
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going to be living and and when we'll
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actually get our stuff into that place I
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if you can wait for however many weeks
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it takes to for all of that to be sorted
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if you can wait then when the toaster
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finally arrives here in Austin I will I
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we I will time it I will make a video
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for you I'll do whatever you like just
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just to stop watch the cold start in the
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morning put the bread in close the door
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press those button start the clock take
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it out when you think it's done to your
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satisfaction I didn't go super dark
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toast it was you know just brown it's
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one but also by the way I took mine out
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when the bottom was brown the top was
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not even toasted yet because my toaster
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is so horrible does one side so if I had
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waited for both you can't wait for both
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sides to be done because by the time the
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top is done the bottom is burnt so I was
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going entirely bought based on the
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bottom so it would take even longer if
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I'd waited for the top to get some color
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on I have a bad toaster is the moral not
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terrible all right a couple more quick
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follow-ups so I was talking about
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Twitter and in-band signaling the other
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day I'm surprised I didn't see more of
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this in the chat room one or two people
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in the chat room picked it up but
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apparently I'm completely out of the
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loop on Twitter because in May of last
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year at some presentation in London
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Twitter announced a new thing called
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Twitter annotations which is just what
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it sounds like it allows you when
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►
sending a tweet to just tack on a bunch
[TS]
◼
►
of annotations that's metadata it's
[TS]
◼
►
exactly what I was talking about it's
[TS]
◼
►
basically arbitrary metadata for your
[TS]
◼
►
tweet so you could put in whatever you
[TS]
◼
►
want there and then clients just have to
[TS]
◼
►
read that metadata and apply it and
[TS]
◼
►
apparently this is what Twitter itself
[TS]
◼
►
uses or something similar to do it's
[TS]
◼
►
like link short and stuff so that the
[TS]
◼
►
text it's not really what I want it
[TS]
◼
►
because the text in tweet still has the
[TS]
◼
►
link shortener length the TCO thing but
[TS]
◼
►
then the annotation is tell you what the
[TS]
◼
►
real URL is so you don't have to go look
[TS]
◼
►
it up through the shortener or anything
[TS]
◼
►
like that but you could in theory use
[TS]
◼
►
these annotations for everything for you
[TS]
◼
►
know who you're applying to us you
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't have to have the @ name at the
[TS]
◼
►
beginning of the tweet links you know
[TS]
◼
►
you could just have like byte-range
[TS]
◼
►
offsets and or you can even do like a
[TS]
◼
►
markup type thing where you just tag the
[TS]
◼
►
the the pieces of information and then
[TS]
◼
►
link them back to a URL like basically
[TS]
◼
►
there is a facility for doing this the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that it hasn't been picked up was
[TS]
◼
►
probably just momentum because you need
[TS]
◼
►
you need the clients to support it and
[TS]
◼
►
it's kind of a chicken and egg thing and
[TS]
◼
►
who's going to be the first client to
[TS]
◼
►
support this type of thing or who's
[TS]
◼
►
going to be the first client to generate
[TS]
◼
►
these types of tweets like sort of rich
[TS]
◼
►
Exce tweets with annotations on them
[TS]
◼
►
when they're not sure that anybody else
[TS]
◼
►
will be able to see it or that it'll
[TS]
◼
►
look all weird and screwed up when other
[TS]
◼
►
people see it so the transition is
[TS]
◼
►
always a difficult part transitioning
[TS]
◼
►
from clients that work the way they do
[TS]
◼
►
now to ones that use this annotations
[TS]
◼
►
instead of everything being in line so
[TS]
◼
►
it may be too little too late but you
[TS]
◼
►
can't really fault twitter for not
[TS]
◼
►
having an api the only weird thing about
[TS]
◼
►
it is that the the total size of
[TS]
◼
►
annotations can't be any more than 512
[TS]
◼
►
bytes they're really big on their data
[TS]
◼
►
limits so you don't get you could
[TS]
◼
►
probably blow through that with you know
[TS]
◼
►
a bunch of long URLs in a tweet and
[TS]
◼
►
already you're out of them this is a
[TS]
◼
►
total size of like the entire annotation
[TS]
◼
►
not just the values this is I think like
[TS]
◼
►
you can you pack it up to JSON or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever that whole thing has to be like
[TS]
◼
►
512 bytes and they say they're hoping to
[TS]
◼
►
increase that up to 2k but it's not like
[TS]
◼
►
for attaching images for example or
[TS]
◼
►
anything like that but I do have an API
[TS]
◼
►
for it and the fact that I'd never heard
[TS]
◼
►
of it shows just how few clients are
[TS]
◼
►
apparently using this it's kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
shame that it's out there and it doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
seem to be a clear transition path maybe
[TS]
◼
►
when Twitter has completely wiped out
[TS]
◼
►
all the third-party clients they will be
[TS]
◼
►
more free to more quickly innovate with
[TS]
◼
►
the clients they own and control adding
[TS]
◼
►
support for these annotations alright
[TS]
◼
►
what else will be having what else have
[TS]
◼
►
you got in there
[TS]
◼
►
we're definitely yeah intel SSD
[TS]
◼
►
warranties are now up to five years a
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of people sent me that when we're
[TS]
◼
►
talking about SSD reliability did you
[TS]
◼
►
see that story go by this week no I
[TS]
◼
►
totally missed that one I haven't been
[TS]
◼
►
following used as much because
[TS]
◼
►
everything going on what did it say so
[TS]
◼
►
it's like Intel's new line of SSDs like
[TS]
◼
►
the you know they're they're brand new
[TS]
◼
►
best performing SSDs now have a
[TS]
◼
►
five-year warranty on and you know the
[TS]
◼
►
press releases say you know Intel is so
[TS]
◼
►
confident and so happy with the
[TS]
◼
►
reliability of its of its devices that
[TS]
◼
►
it's increasing the warranty on these
[TS]
◼
►
things to five years and they're they're
[TS]
◼
►
working great and blah blah blah and a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of people sent this in to me you
[TS]
◼
►
know saying see your worries are
[TS]
◼
►
unfounded because these things have five
[TS]
◼
►
year warranties and hard drives most
[TS]
◼
►
hard drives only have three so SSDs you
[TS]
◼
►
know they must have a lot of confidence
[TS]
◼
►
that these things are going to last a
[TS]
◼
►
long time when I see a company increase
[TS]
◼
►
its warranties like that and do a press
[TS]
◼
►
release about it it makes me more wary
[TS]
◼
►
maybe them too cynical more worried
[TS]
◼
►
about reliability not less because very
[TS]
◼
►
rarely does it man
[TS]
◼
►
factor increase its warranty with
[TS]
◼
►
fanfare unless it's a reaction against
[TS]
◼
►
any you know bad PR that they have
[TS]
◼
►
reliability problems you know like they
[TS]
◼
►
want to show that we are not like those
[TS]
◼
►
other SS all right reliability problems
[TS]
◼
►
ours are really safe trust us but I mean
[TS]
◼
►
you could say like well who cares what
[TS]
◼
►
the reasoning is five years is still
[TS]
◼
►
five years and whether they're doing or
[TS]
◼
►
for cynical reasons or not or just to
[TS]
◼
►
try to get you to buy their stuff or try
[TS]
◼
►
to counter the prevailing story about
[TS]
◼
►
reliability who cares you still get a
[TS]
◼
►
free one for five years so I am pretty
[TS]
◼
►
much happy that their increase in the
[TS]
◼
►
warranty to five years but I am still
[TS]
◼
►
suspicious of the reliability and the
[TS]
◼
►
other thing about this warranty is that
[TS]
◼
►
it's not like five years period full
[TS]
◼
►
stop it's five years but there's like
[TS]
◼
►
fine print text that says but we have
[TS]
◼
►
our own little internal calibration on
[TS]
◼
►
each drive that says you get X number of
[TS]
◼
►
gigabytes of i/o per unit of time and if
[TS]
◼
►
you blow through a we consider to be the
[TS]
◼
►
the lifetimes work of this SSD and if
[TS]
◼
►
you blow through that in a year and a
[TS]
◼
►
half or two years because you're
[TS]
◼
►
constantly reading writing huge blocks
[TS]
◼
►
well then tough you don't get your
[TS]
◼
►
warranty and they have a different a
[TS]
◼
►
different price range for like
[TS]
◼
►
enterprise usage versus regular usage
[TS]
◼
►
and while I was clicking around those
[TS]
◼
►
stories and so someone else's link I
[TS]
◼
►
wish I could find it but I couldn't find
[TS]
◼
►
ever the show notes but they were
[TS]
◼
►
showing what their drive was reporting
[TS]
◼
►
as the useful life left in it after
[TS]
◼
►
using it for a year because you could
[TS]
◼
►
just you can query the drive and say
[TS]
◼
►
what how much life time you have left
[TS]
◼
►
like sort of like the oil lifetime on
[TS]
◼
►
your car or whatever and he was way
[TS]
◼
►
farther through the lifetime his Drive
[TS]
◼
►
than he thought he would be after only a
[TS]
◼
►
year and a half or so I don't know what
[TS]
◼
►
Intel's numbers are for the usage but
[TS]
◼
►
the fact that there's a tiered thing for
[TS]
◼
►
enterprise versus regular user and stuff
[TS]
◼
►
and the fact that the five-year thing is
[TS]
◼
►
null and void if you go through what it
[TS]
◼
►
considers to be a reasonable amount of
[TS]
◼
►
i/o it just gets back to that you know
[TS]
◼
►
the nature of solid-state storage is
[TS]
◼
►
that there's a limited number of rights
[TS]
◼
►
that you get and once you go through
[TS]
◼
►
them it's a physical limit on the
[TS]
◼
►
storage that's that's it you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's no getting around that so that
[TS]
◼
►
you know they give you over capacity
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes that Enterprise drives to give
[TS]
◼
►
you like four or five times the space
[TS]
◼
►
you actually need to give you the
[TS]
◼
►
Headroom to do all those right so when
[TS]
◼
►
you wear out a certain section of cells
[TS]
◼
►
they move to another one yeah these
[TS]
◼
►
things will be started at in time I
[TS]
◼
►
think the warranty increase is a move in
[TS]
◼
►
the right direction
[TS]
◼
►
I just hope Intel doesn't lose it
[TS]
◼
►
on the warranty increase they probably
[TS]
◼
►
won't because most people will buy these
[TS]
◼
►
things and not using that heavily and so
[TS]
◼
►
it'll be fine but I'm feeling that I use
[TS]
◼
►
my drives pretty heavily giving them
[TS]
◼
►
have disc thrashing I see my system
[TS]
◼
►
doing most of the time especially with
[TS]
◼
►
all the backups constantly raising all
[TS]
◼
►
reading all this data downloading this
[TS]
◼
►
last night that so I continue to wait
[TS]
◼
►
once I can get a one terabyte SSD for a
[TS]
◼
►
reasonable price I will almost certainly
[TS]
◼
►
buy one but that day is not today
[TS]
◼
►
all right I think it's all the follow up
[TS]
◼
►
I have record time huh that was really
[TS]
◼
►
good time I mean 20 22 minutes not less
[TS]
◼
►
than that 18 cents yes it's a fantastic
[TS]
◼
►
you're under sponsor you're gonna stick
[TS]
◼
►
it in later I'll stick it in now this
[TS]
◼
►
episode is sponsored by harvest and time
[TS]
◼
►
tracking and invoicing web-based
[TS]
◼
►
application you can send your clients
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful professional invoices via
[TS]
◼
►
email PDF or on the web you can accept
[TS]
◼
►
online credit card and check payments
[TS]
◼
►
and more you can even this is cool while
[TS]
◼
►
you're traveling I know you travel a lot
[TS]
◼
►
you fly a lot right John for work I mean
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of people do a lot of people
[TS]
◼
►
aren't like us and they don't mind
[TS]
◼
►
getting on planes and then when they're
[TS]
◼
►
out there they want to you know they
[TS]
◼
►
want to expense stuff or they want to
[TS]
◼
►
give they want to give their receipts to
[TS]
◼
►
the system how do they do that well with
[TS]
◼
►
this you could just you can take a
[TS]
◼
►
picture of your receipt and upload it
[TS]
◼
►
straight into the app how cool is that
[TS]
◼
►
well harvest is free for 30-days
[TS]
◼
►
but if you use code five by five TV all
[TS]
◼
►
one word all upper case you'll get 50%
[TS]
◼
►
off your first month after the 30 days
[TS]
◼
►
so check them out at get harvest calm
[TS]
◼
►
love these guys now let's let's make it
[TS]
◼
►
worth their while go check these guys
[TS]
◼
►
out get harvest calm I've heard so many
[TS]
◼
►
horror stories of people who do travel
[TS]
◼
►
for work have the things they have to go
[TS]
◼
►
through to get reimbursed oh yeah are
[TS]
◼
►
the expenses that they incurred that did
[TS]
◼
►
not is perhaps the vision is the least
[TS]
◼
►
evolved part of corporate culture so
[TS]
◼
►
many other parts of you know have gotten
[TS]
◼
►
better over the years but that's like
[TS]
◼
►
that that's where the trolls live in the
[TS]
◼
►
department that tries to give you the
[TS]
◼
►
money for your cab fare or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
alright ready for the show's topic I'm
[TS]
◼
►
so ready I'm ready
[TS]
◼
►
you're not ready
[TS]
◼
►
the topic you didn't want oh no not this
[TS]
◼
►
one yes this was this is the one all
[TS]
◼
►
right you're lucky it'll be it'll be it
[TS]
◼
►
you know it has to be short yeah you
[TS]
◼
►
your CE will suffer not too much
[TS]
◼
►
microwave ovens no oh so I'm gonna talk
[TS]
◼
►
about the finder um this is something I
[TS]
◼
►
talked about a lot a while ago I don't
[TS]
◼
►
feel like I've talked about that much
[TS]
◼
►
since but people are sick of hearing
[TS]
◼
►
about it from me so there is sort of
[TS]
◼
►
this I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
worn-out factor to the topic that's
[TS]
◼
►
probably why you don't want to hear
[TS]
◼
►
about it but you're going to because I
[TS]
◼
►
think it's time so I wrote about this
[TS]
◼
►
originally about eight years ago makes
[TS]
◼
►
me feel old to say that but that's how
[TS]
◼
►
long it was and I think probably to this
[TS]
◼
►
day it is my least understood article
[TS]
◼
►
mostly because I did a bad job of
[TS]
◼
►
communicating it's not the fault of the
[TS]
◼
►
reader that it was least understood it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's my fault now when I go back and
[TS]
◼
►
read it it looks like everything I
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to say is in there so it's not
[TS]
◼
►
like I didn't say what I wanted to say
[TS]
◼
►
but I said a bunch of other stuff too
[TS]
◼
►
and if you're not me you don't know
[TS]
◼
►
which stuff you should be concentrating
[TS]
◼
►
on like those it's just too big and
[TS]
◼
►
flabby really this is linked in the show
[TS]
◼
►
notes it's the first link in the show
[TS]
◼
►
notes the title of the article was about
[TS]
◼
►
the finder from April 2003 I tried to
[TS]
◼
►
when I did a retrospective like last
[TS]
◼
►
year about ten years of Mac os10 reviews
[TS]
◼
►
I tried to summarize the issues that
[TS]
◼
►
were described originally in that 2003
[TS]
◼
►
article I think that's a bitter you know
[TS]
◼
►
read six paragraphs and figure out what
[TS]
◼
►
back I'm talking about summary but it
[TS]
◼
►
does assume knowledge of reason that
[TS]
◼
►
came before it I think so I'm not sure
[TS]
◼
►
how good it is for a starting point but
[TS]
◼
►
I have that in the show notes as well
[TS]
◼
►
the page that link - you just have to
[TS]
◼
►
scroll down a little bit to get to the
[TS]
◼
►
part where I talk about the finder again
[TS]
◼
►
so this time on the show I'm going to
[TS]
◼
►
give it another another run at this
[TS]
◼
►
topic because maybe talking I'll be
[TS]
◼
►
better than I was writing about it I
[TS]
◼
►
really doubt it but we'll give it a go
[TS]
◼
►
I'm going to try slightly different
[TS]
◼
►
angle this time because every other
[TS]
◼
►
thing that I've tried has not worked
[TS]
◼
►
that well this requires some
[TS]
◼
►
participation from you meaning you
[TS]
◼
►
ask questions and and challenge me on
[TS]
◼
►
things don't make sense to you because I
[TS]
◼
►
really just talked about and thought
[TS]
◼
►
about this so much and maybe glossing
[TS]
◼
►
over things okay thank you for
[TS]
◼
►
permission to do that beyond yours be on
[TS]
◼
►
your toes all right all right so what
[TS]
◼
►
what the heck are we talking about this
[TS]
◼
►
is my new ankle a new angle as as I
[TS]
◼
►
usually do on the show is to start from
[TS]
◼
►
the history and I will it put it in
[TS]
◼
►
historical context I'll get that bus so
[TS]
◼
►
what I'm going to describe here is what
[TS]
◼
►
were the earliest sort of mass-market PC
[TS]
◼
►
interfaces what were they like like you
[TS]
◼
►
know pcs that were used more than by a
[TS]
◼
►
dozen or so people we don't really like
[TS]
◼
►
the first time I don't like Apple to IBM
[TS]
◼
►
PC the first time the personal computer
[TS]
◼
►
started to appear as a phrase and Time
[TS]
◼
►
magazine and stuff like that the dawning
[TS]
◼
►
so what were those interfaces like and
[TS]
◼
►
how I'm going to categorize them as they
[TS]
◼
►
were like conversations so you turn on
[TS]
◼
►
this this PC thing that you've got and
[TS]
◼
►
it would do some stuff and eventually
[TS]
◼
►
you'd be faced with sort of a blinking
[TS]
◼
►
prompt asking for input so that was the
[TS]
◼
►
conversation starter was the computer
[TS]
◼
►
saying to you and what what will you
[TS]
◼
►
have me do if I do like some instruction
[TS]
◼
►
right and there's really no indication
[TS]
◼
►
what it is you should do with that like
[TS]
◼
►
you have the paper manual that came with
[TS]
◼
►
the computer and you could read about it
[TS]
◼
►
you can learn something but just looking
[TS]
◼
►
at if you just brought the computer out
[TS]
◼
►
of the box you never use a PC before you
[TS]
◼
►
turned it on you got that blinking
[TS]
◼
►
prompt assuming you could even figure
[TS]
◼
►
out that it wanted you to type on a
[TS]
◼
►
keyboard to enter text at that prompt
[TS]
◼
►
which you would probably figure out
[TS]
◼
►
shortly you don't know what to type but
[TS]
◼
►
presuming you read the manual whatever
[TS]
◼
►
you know you would type instruction
[TS]
◼
►
that's your side of the conversation and
[TS]
◼
►
then you hit return to send it to the
[TS]
◼
►
computer and the computer would give you
[TS]
◼
►
an answer that read to tell you the
[TS]
◼
►
result of the question that you asked or
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you would ask follow-up questions
[TS]
◼
►
or would do something in response to
[TS]
◼
►
your command but it was basically a
[TS]
◼
►
conversation you tell what to do it
[TS]
◼
►
gives information back to you tell
[TS]
◼
►
something different it gives information
[TS]
◼
►
back back and forth right and that was
[TS]
◼
►
the dominant paradigm of using a PC as
[TS]
◼
►
far as people were concerned
[TS]
◼
►
basically until the Macintosh I mean and
[TS]
◼
►
again I'm only talking mass-market and I
[TS]
◼
►
want to get email from the people who
[TS]
◼
►
will tell me that you know such-and-such
[TS]
◼
►
computer had a GUI before the Mac and
[TS]
◼
►
everything that Mac was the one that
[TS]
◼
►
popularized this for better or for worse
[TS]
◼
►
and it you know it gets the credit in
[TS]
◼
►
history so when the Macintosh came
[TS]
◼
►
around and it started to be appear
[TS]
◼
►
magazines and everything it was a
[TS]
◼
►
different experience you turned on a Mac
[TS]
◼
►
when you first got out of the box and
[TS]
◼
►
you didn't get a command prompt so there
[TS]
◼
►
was no you know the reason you got a
[TS]
◼
►
command prompt models other computers is
[TS]
◼
►
it was like usually basic or something
[TS]
◼
►
built-in so what you were typing at in
[TS]
◼
►
the beginning was probably a basic
[TS]
◼
►
prompt or you were going to type some
[TS]
◼
►
sort of command to tell it what Drive to
[TS]
◼
►
load you know the program out of or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever to boot from this driver to run
[TS]
◼
►
this program and this driver something
[TS]
◼
►
like that when you turn it on a Mac you
[TS]
◼
►
didn't get a prompt of any kind and if
[TS]
◼
►
you did if your just took it out of the
[TS]
◼
►
box plugged in turns it on what you
[TS]
◼
►
would get is a picture on the screen of
[TS]
◼
►
what was supposed to be a floppy disk
[TS]
◼
►
which may or may not have been
[TS]
◼
►
recognizable to people because these
[TS]
◼
►
disks look a little bit different than
[TS]
◼
►
the older floppy disks with a blinking
[TS]
◼
►
question mark on it and I was trying to
[TS]
◼
►
tell you like that's it's it's visual
[TS]
◼
►
way of saying disk do you have a disk
[TS]
◼
►
for me and there's nothing you could do
[TS]
◼
►
with that screen you couldn't type stuff
[TS]
◼
►
there was no command prompt you couldn't
[TS]
◼
►
you know click on anything even if you
[TS]
◼
►
know how to use the mouse it was saying
[TS]
◼
►
that it needed a disk with pictures but
[TS]
◼
►
not with words which is interesting
[TS]
◼
►
because it saves on localization you
[TS]
◼
►
know obviously this has to be in the ROM
[TS]
◼
►
you don't have to localize the ROM so
[TS]
◼
►
use a picture of the floppy disk with a
[TS]
◼
►
assuming you figured out that that it
[TS]
◼
►
wanted a disk you take the disk the
[TS]
◼
►
computer came with and you shove it in
[TS]
◼
►
there and it would start going through
[TS]
◼
►
all this stuff would bring up a little
[TS]
◼
►
box it says welcome to Macintosh and
[TS]
◼
►
eventually would boot into what we now
[TS]
◼
►
know is the finder but what if you were
[TS]
◼
►
just looking at this what you would say
[TS]
◼
►
is a bunch of pictures on the screen
[TS]
◼
►
with little rectangles that look kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like little pieces of paper with the
[TS]
◼
►
Kalama faulted and little diamond shapes
[TS]
◼
►
and then windows with scroll bars and
[TS]
◼
►
all this sorts of stuff and it wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
asking you for anything there wasn't a
[TS]
◼
►
prompt to we're expecting you to type
[TS]
◼
►
some commands it was more like you were
[TS]
◼
►
looking at this thing now that the thing
[TS]
◼
►
was the desktop the desktop metaphor
[TS]
◼
►
when when people are writing about the
[TS]
◼
►
Macintosh early on that's what they were
[TS]
◼
►
they love to talk about like yeah
[TS]
◼
►
there's a little trash can in the corner
[TS]
◼
►
isn't it adorable and these little icons
[TS]
◼
►
it just is just like an office not
[TS]
◼
►
really a desk I was like an office you
[TS]
◼
►
know your office is a trash can your
[TS]
◼
►
office has folders your office has
[TS]
◼
►
pieces of paper you know those things
[TS]
◼
►
right yeah and this is what people got
[TS]
◼
►
stuck on especially in the early days
[TS]
◼
►
everybody talked about the Mac like wow
[TS]
◼
►
it's easy to use because it uses this
[TS]
◼
►
metaphor of things that people are
[TS]
◼
►
familiar with right you don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
learn very much to use it right but they
[TS]
◼
►
were saying like it's because because
[TS]
◼
►
people already know what a trash can is
[TS]
◼
►
and because we have you know that the
[TS]
◼
►
graphical capabilities to draw something
[TS]
◼
►
that people will recognize as trash can
[TS]
◼
►
but the pixels are really small right
[TS]
◼
►
and we have good artists and stuff and
[TS]
◼
►
we can draw this little thing it looks
[TS]
◼
►
like a folder and people know what
[TS]
◼
►
folders are already so there's not
[TS]
◼
►
there's nothing to learn it's familiar
[TS]
◼
►
right that's all people we're talking
[TS]
◼
►
about that but I think that's a
[TS]
◼
►
distraction the maybe in the early days
[TS]
◼
►
that was important in terms of like
[TS]
◼
►
making people feel comfortable so
[TS]
◼
►
they're not intimidated because they see
[TS]
◼
►
symbols on the screen that that look
[TS]
◼
►
like things that they are familiar with
[TS]
◼
►
but the real difference was that it
[TS]
◼
►
stopped being a conversation in almost
[TS]
◼
►
an adversarial conversation where the
[TS]
◼
►
computer says now you will type
[TS]
◼
►
something here and you were saying I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know what to type I'll try this
[TS]
◼
►
and it would say no you have typed the
[TS]
◼
►
wrong thing is something different no
[TS]
◼
►
that's the wrong thing to you type that
[TS]
◼
►
okay now I'll do what you told me to do
[TS]
◼
►
but I'm not going to tell you really
[TS]
◼
►
what that was maybe I'll tell you
[TS]
◼
►
whether it was successful or not maybe
[TS]
◼
►
silence means it was successful you know
[TS]
◼
►
that was intimidating versus this thing
[TS]
◼
►
where what it gave you is not a
[TS]
◼
►
conversation but a thing now I I got off
[TS]
◼
►
my first Mac when I was like 9 or 10
[TS]
◼
►
years old 1984 and giving this computer
[TS]
◼
►
to me and I had Mac's before I max
[TS]
◼
►
before I had computers before that
[TS]
◼
►
booted to a prompt and I'd done basic
[TS]
◼
►
program stuff like that so I understood
[TS]
◼
►
the concept of booting to a problem do
[TS]
◼
►
this thing but you gave me this other
[TS]
◼
►
thing did not boot to a prompt booted to
[TS]
◼
►
this this desktop and the mouse control
[TS]
◼
►
the cursor it was pretty clear what you
[TS]
◼
►
did with the mouse was just like a kind
[TS]
◼
►
of extension of your hand you move it
[TS]
◼
►
around the screen it's got one button on
[TS]
◼
►
the mouse what do you do is when the
[TS]
◼
►
little arrow was over something you push
[TS]
◼
►
the button and you see what the heck
[TS]
◼
►
happens it was kind it was kind of like
[TS]
◼
►
giving someone like an ant farm or like
[TS]
◼
►
a tavern puzzle or one of those 161 kids
[TS]
◼
►
it was it was like a thing not not a not
[TS]
◼
►
a conversation not not a challenge not
[TS]
◼
►
not a game but a thing where you could
[TS]
◼
►
poke the thing and you'd see how it
[TS]
◼
►
react like in a you know in it farm you
[TS]
◼
►
know what happens if I stick a stick in
[TS]
◼
►
there what happens if I cover over this
[TS]
◼
►
though anthill you know what happens if
[TS]
◼
►
and upset and shake or you know a tavern
[TS]
◼
►
puzzle you know what happens when I pull
[TS]
◼
►
this metal thing out whatever's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
you know so even as a nine-year-old who
[TS]
◼
►
had never seen a GUI before you could
[TS]
◼
►
pretty quickly figure out all right well
[TS]
◼
►
this is only really one way to get input
[TS]
◼
►
aside it wasn't touching the keyboard
[TS]
◼
►
because it was no there was no props
[TS]
◼
►
there was no type you know the number of
[TS]
◼
►
things you can type on a keyboard is
[TS]
◼
►
nearly infinite but clicking it's like
[TS]
◼
►
well I can click on these little
[TS]
◼
►
pictures on the screen and eventually
[TS]
◼
►
you figure out if you click two times
[TS]
◼
►
faster than something different you can
[TS]
◼
►
click and hold down and it drags you you
[TS]
◼
►
could figure out how it worked without
[TS]
◼
►
having to read a manual and without
[TS]
◼
►
having to type every possible string of
[TS]
◼
►
characters that you can type on a
[TS]
◼
►
keyboard and that in my view was was the
[TS]
◼
►
big difference between the Macintosh way
[TS]
◼
►
and the pre Macintosh way sort of the
[TS]
◼
►
GUI in the non GUI way is not not the
[TS]
◼
►
desktop metaphor and all the little
[TS]
◼
►
folders and letting people know what the
[TS]
◼
►
things were but the fact that you could
[TS]
◼
►
figure it out by trial and error in a
[TS]
◼
►
reasonable amount of time because it
[TS]
◼
►
worked more like a physical yeah object
[TS]
◼
►
then then like you know some sort of
[TS]
◼
►
obscure game system right well there's a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of value though to that to that
[TS]
◼
►
metaphor yeah I mean obviously the
[TS]
◼
►
metaphor was helping to be the thing to
[TS]
◼
►
look like a folder you'd have some
[TS]
◼
►
notion of what it might do and you could
[TS]
◼
►
open it you could put stuff in it you
[TS]
◼
►
know yeah I mean it was helping you
[TS]
◼
►
understand what was going on if they had
[TS]
◼
►
made them circle squares and Diamonds it
[TS]
◼
►
would have been more difficult to
[TS]
◼
►
understand but but even if they had make
[TS]
◼
►
them Sir made them circle squares and
[TS]
◼
►
kids in particular would figure it out
[TS]
◼
►
because if you think about video games
[TS]
◼
►
of the time everything on screen was
[TS]
◼
►
like a circle or a square or daimond or
[TS]
◼
►
some other simple shape very clued
[TS]
◼
►
crudely drawn with big hunk and pixels
[TS]
◼
►
but we didn't really care like the
[TS]
◼
►
abstraction went away but you could fare
[TS]
◼
►
like okay I in asteroids on this little
[TS]
◼
►
arrow shaped thing all right but it's
[TS]
◼
►
clear you know what other shape it is
[TS]
◼
►
you could have bit its circle diamond
[TS]
◼
►
whatever it's it's you that's you that's
[TS]
◼
►
the thing it shoots the asteroid hits
[TS]
◼
►
you and you die and no matter what shape
[TS]
◼
►
any of those objects are you could
[TS]
◼
►
change them all into completely
[TS]
◼
►
different pictures the game still makes
[TS]
◼
►
sense once you use it now the finder
[TS]
◼
►
it's right in his name is that the point
[TS]
◼
►
of the finder was to find things and is
[TS]
◼
►
it's interesting to contrast the the way
[TS]
◼
►
you find things the conversation wavers
[TS]
◼
►
is the Macintosh way so knowing what
[TS]
◼
►
things you were supposed to be finding
[TS]
◼
►
is one thing you know the fact that they
[TS]
◼
►
look like little
[TS]
◼
►
pieces of paper with the corners folded
[TS]
◼
►
or folders tell you if I'm looking for
[TS]
◼
►
something it's probably one of those
[TS]
◼
►
piece of paper things it's like my
[TS]
◼
►
electronic piece of paper or and they
[TS]
◼
►
might be inside of the folder something
[TS]
◼
►
like that but and all the screens you to
[TS]
◼
►
know that but pretend you knew it was
[TS]
◼
►
you refining the conversation way it was
[TS]
◼
►
like like a text adventure what you
[TS]
◼
►
would do is like you get at the prompt
[TS]
◼
►
that you type like look room that's the
[TS]
◼
►
equivalent of like LS order or one of
[TS]
◼
►
those commands and that would this is
[TS]
◼
►
theme of like info context adventures
[TS]
◼
►
and it would say exits or a B and C you
[TS]
◼
►
know and those are like you would list
[TS]
◼
►
the files and fold it in there and then
[TS]
◼
►
you'd say okay fine go to a or go north
[TS]
◼
►
that's that's C D right change directory
[TS]
◼
►
then you type look room again and it
[TS]
◼
►
would tell you what's in that room right
[TS]
◼
►
if anyone's played a text adventure this
[TS]
◼
►
is the process of wandering around text
[TS]
◼
►
adventure you this text printed on the
[TS]
◼
►
screen explain to you what's around but
[TS]
◼
►
you have to prompt you to say tell me
[TS]
◼
►
what's here where are my exits okay
[TS]
◼
►
going to that exit look around here do
[TS]
◼
►
that to that take this thing and put it
[TS]
◼
►
on top of that examine this okay go here
[TS]
◼
►
go there all the while you're moving
[TS]
◼
►
around your current location is kind of
[TS]
◼
►
kept in your head and you can ask the
[TS]
◼
►
computer where am i right that's instead
[TS]
◼
►
of the state you can say where am i
[TS]
◼
►
current working directory will say
[TS]
◼
►
you're in the north lobby there exist
[TS]
◼
►
north south oh yeah I forgot about that
[TS]
◼
►
and you spend a while and they're doing
[TS]
◼
►
stuff or whatever and you come back and
[TS]
◼
►
go to the computer so where am I tell me
[TS]
◼
►
again right but if you're just working
[TS]
◼
►
you're maintaining that state in your
[TS]
◼
►
head like what is my current directory
[TS]
◼
►
how did I get here
[TS]
◼
►
what are the contents of this directory
[TS]
◼
►
you know stuff like that yeah the
[TS]
◼
►
Macintosh Way was more like I was trying
[TS]
◼
►
to come up with a good analogy for this
[TS]
◼
►
is but it was not like a text adventure
[TS]
◼
►
it was more like like I said like a
[TS]
◼
►
physical thing like say you were looking
[TS]
◼
►
for something in a tool box like one of
[TS]
◼
►
those big red tool boxes in a garage
[TS]
◼
►
with 15 million drawers although it's
[TS]
◼
►
more like an infinitely deep tool box
[TS]
◼
►
bragging centers within drawers dr. you
[TS]
◼
►
open the drawer and inside that is
[TS]
◼
►
another drawer instead as another drawer
[TS]
◼
►
but that's that shouldn't distract from
[TS]
◼
►
the fact that that's the process of
[TS]
◼
►
doing stuff that your look room
[TS]
◼
►
equivalent is you open the drawer and
[TS]
◼
►
there is no command to look at the room
[TS]
◼
►
you just look with your eyes and you see
[TS]
◼
►
what are the contents of this you know
[TS]
◼
►
when I open this folder it opens this
[TS]
◼
►
window what's in that window I don't ask
[TS]
◼
►
the computer what's in the window the
[TS]
◼
►
computer shows me and if I can't see
[TS]
◼
►
something just like I can't see
[TS]
◼
►
something in a drawer I like pull the
[TS]
◼
►
drawer arm or move stuff out of the way
[TS]
◼
►
you know you dig around you rummage
[TS]
◼
►
around in there and yes you may find
[TS]
◼
►
another drawer inside there except
[TS]
◼
►
style and open that drawer and look
[TS]
◼
►
what's in there right and so the state
[TS]
◼
►
of where you are and what it was you're
[TS]
◼
►
looking at was maintained visually by
[TS]
◼
►
the computer you didn't have to remember
[TS]
◼
►
where you were you just look and see
[TS]
◼
►
like you know what what is it what is
[TS]
◼
►
where am i what is in this place that I
[TS]
◼
►
am it you know then there was a title
[TS]
◼
►
bar the window or whatever but you would
[TS]
◼
►
see this is what's in this window and
[TS]
◼
►
especially in the early days there's
[TS]
◼
►
like three or four icons per window you
[TS]
◼
►
could see everything that was in either
[TS]
◼
►
one of them and if you wanted to know
[TS]
◼
►
how did I get here
[TS]
◼
►
well you could see like where the drawer
[TS]
◼
►
was sticking out of in other words so
[TS]
◼
►
you could see by where the drawer when
[TS]
◼
►
you double-click the folder would do
[TS]
◼
►
that little animation and it would show
[TS]
◼
►
you this is coming from there it was
[TS]
◼
►
very crude animation because it was 1984
[TS]
◼
►
but it would have a series of lines
[TS]
◼
►
saying you know that folds of the
[TS]
◼
►
double-clicked is now opening this thing
[TS]
◼
►
that's where it came from and it would
[TS]
◼
►
gray out the the place where it came
[TS]
◼
►
and the new window would be in that
[TS]
◼
►
location and that's where the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
would be and you scroll around to look
[TS]
◼
►
for stuff and that's the key part is the
[TS]
◼
►
looking around for stuff was literally
[TS]
◼
►
looking around like when you rummage
[TS]
◼
►
through a like a junk drawer for
[TS]
◼
►
something you are you know and if the
[TS]
◼
►
drawer is messy it's going to be harder
[TS]
◼
►
to find stuff you know but but you you
[TS]
◼
►
can look around for stuff by you know
[TS]
◼
►
scrolling is not much different than
[TS]
◼
►
pulling out the drawer more moving stuff
[TS]
◼
►
out of the way with your hands you can
[TS]
◼
►
move stuff around and arrange things
[TS]
◼
►
however you want it if you're into lock
[TS]
◼
►
organization you can make a nice neat
[TS]
◼
►
junk drawer where you say okay well let
[TS]
◼
►
me I keep going in this drawer to get
[TS]
◼
►
stuff let me just arrange stuff the way
[TS]
◼
►
I want it to be so it'll to be you know
[TS]
◼
►
it'll be easier to find next time maybe
[TS]
◼
►
I'll put them in alphabetical order
[TS]
◼
►
maybe I'll put them in little groups
[TS]
◼
►
maybe I'll just arrange them arbitrarily
[TS]
◼
►
maybe I'll put my favorite ones on the
[TS]
◼
►
upper left and you know whatever you
[TS]
◼
►
want to do but eventually what you do is
[TS]
◼
►
you have a place for everything and
[TS]
◼
►
everything in its place
[TS]
◼
►
visually and this is this is kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
bargain that people are used to kind of
[TS]
◼
►
let me arrange things in places right
[TS]
◼
►
and people used to this in the real
[TS]
◼
►
world because this is what this is what
[TS]
◼
►
keeping your house is like or your
[TS]
◼
►
arranging your room or whatever it's up
[TS]
◼
►
to you to more or less you know keep
[TS]
◼
►
your silverware a nice neat pile so that
[TS]
◼
►
you know where the forks are instead of
[TS]
◼
►
putting all your so we're into a big
[TS]
◼
►
jumble if you want to put all your so
[TS]
◼
►
were in a big jumble fine and when you
[TS]
◼
►
want to go in there looking for a fork
[TS]
◼
►
you can you know sift through the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
and find the fork where but that's up to
[TS]
◼
►
you this is the bargain of life and this
[TS]
◼
►
is this was the bargain of the Mac
[TS]
◼
►
presented you with is that you could
[TS]
◼
►
arrange things however you wanted and if
[TS]
◼
►
you're a neat person you could be
[TS]
◼
►
needing you're a sloppy person you can
[TS]
◼
►
and what it did whether you need or
[TS]
◼
►
sloppy was it eventually let you build
[TS]
◼
►
up a memory of where things are the same
[TS]
◼
►
way kind of this is an example I use one
[TS]
◼
►
of the early articles I'll bring that
[TS]
◼
►
again just because I think it's it's
[TS]
◼
►
still a good one the same way when you
[TS]
◼
►
move into a new house which you'll be
[TS]
◼
►
doing shortly hopefully I hold you first
[TS]
◼
►
move in you don't really know where all
[TS]
◼
►
the light switches are right so every
[TS]
◼
►
time you come in home you're like is
[TS]
◼
►
this on the inside especially if you
[TS]
◼
►
can't move to New England from someplace
[TS]
◼
►
else the England puts light switches to
[TS]
◼
►
the bathrooms on the outside crazy stuff
[TS]
◼
►
like that from you know really old
[TS]
◼
►
houses just so you can like goof on on
[TS]
◼
►
your kids and turn the light off while
[TS]
◼
►
they're in there in the shower yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know why that is some person is a
[TS]
◼
►
contractor in New England will send us
[TS]
◼
►
an email and explain why the light
[TS]
◼
►
switches can you do your best New
[TS]
◼
►
England accent of the imitating the
[TS]
◼
►
contractor coming in and what he would
[TS]
◼
►
say I do not have a New England accent
[TS]
◼
►
nor can I imitate one NORC and most
[TS]
◼
►
people in Hollywood but I know one money
[TS]
◼
►
you can do Boston but yeah so but when
[TS]
◼
►
you've been there for a while eventually
[TS]
◼
►
you remember all the lights which is art
[TS]
◼
►
it's not like you spent some time like
[TS]
◼
►
okay kids we're going to spend an hour
[TS]
◼
►
tonight to memorize where all the light
[TS]
◼
►
switches are you don't expend any effort
[TS]
◼
►
on remembering where the light switch is
[TS]
◼
►
are you just leave you lived there for a
[TS]
◼
►
two weeks eventually you remember old
[TS]
◼
►
lights resort how the hell do you do
[TS]
◼
►
that how is it that suddenly you know
[TS]
◼
►
where all the light switches are and you
[TS]
◼
►
expended literally zero conscious
[TS]
◼
►
thought to remember where the light rays
[TS]
◼
►
are well you remember where they are
[TS]
◼
►
because they don't move and you know
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you didn't choose you didn't even
[TS]
◼
►
choose to put them there but you know
[TS]
◼
►
some other person but them in crazy
[TS]
◼
►
positions but eventually you remember
[TS]
◼
►
where they are just you know we call it
[TS]
◼
►
muscle memory or whatever we call it
[TS]
◼
►
obviously your muscles don't actually
[TS]
◼
►
have memory these are all phrases that
[TS]
◼
►
we've come up with to describe the
[TS]
◼
►
sensation of us not haven't you not use
[TS]
◼
►
our people brains to remember where
[TS]
◼
►
things are just happens automatically so
[TS]
◼
►
that's like that's obviously not me I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not thinking about it it's muscle memory
[TS]
◼
►
my muscles know so when I walk into the
[TS]
◼
►
room even it's like in the middle the
[TS]
◼
►
night I'm getting up to take a leak my
[TS]
◼
►
hand just automatically flicks the light
[TS]
◼
►
switch on I didn't think about it just
[TS]
◼
►
happened right so this obviously is easy
[TS]
◼
►
for something stationary like light
[TS]
◼
►
switch just don't move it you can have
[TS]
◼
►
the same experience with things that you
[TS]
◼
►
choose to put somewhere like eventually
[TS]
◼
►
when you move into new house you decide
[TS]
◼
►
where you're going to put the scissors
[TS]
◼
►
so that every time you want the scissors
[TS]
◼
►
you go and get this eventually you stop
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about where the scissors are
[TS]
◼
►
you just go I need to go get the
[TS]
◼
►
scissors it's like a macro
[TS]
◼
►
your body gets up walks through the
[TS]
◼
►
house without hitting any of the walls
[TS]
◼
►
correctly turns on all the lights which
[TS]
◼
►
is on its way there opens the drawer
[TS]
◼
►
where you know the scissors are takes
[TS]
◼
►
the scissors out of the drawer maybe
[TS]
◼
►
you're not even looking walks back with
[TS]
◼
►
the room of the scissors and you do your
[TS]
◼
►
thing right because you chose that this
[TS]
◼
►
is going to be in this drawer and you
[TS]
◼
►
have been living in this house for a
[TS]
◼
►
while and you've you know arranged the
[TS]
◼
►
furniture in a certain way and the rooms
[TS]
◼
►
are connected in a certain way
[TS]
◼
►
electrodes are a certain way all because
[TS]
◼
►
it behaves like the physical world and
[TS]
◼
►
it's not not surprising that people are
[TS]
◼
►
good at doing this because people have
[TS]
◼
►
been living in the physical world since
[TS]
◼
►
there have been people you have to
[TS]
◼
►
navigate 3d space look at things with
[TS]
◼
►
your eyes and do repetitive tasks
[TS]
◼
►
without thinking about them because if
[TS]
◼
►
we had to think like you know like
[TS]
◼
►
you're programming a robot pick up your
[TS]
◼
►
foot move it forward slightly lean your
[TS]
◼
►
body forward now your foot your body is
[TS]
◼
►
starting to tilt catch it with your foot
[TS]
◼
►
catch though I mean we don't think like
[TS]
◼
►
things become sort of automatic for us
[TS]
◼
►
to do because we this is just how we
[TS]
◼
►
evolved if we had to think consciously
[TS]
◼
►
about every little thing that we did we
[TS]
◼
►
would not be a successful species so the
[TS]
◼
►
human mind body and brain are completely
[TS]
◼
►
tuned to do things based on visual input
[TS]
◼
►
with our hands physically without
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about it and this is the the
[TS]
◼
►
most efficient possible way that you can
[TS]
◼
►
do anything really now the reason this
[TS]
◼
►
ties back to the Mac is that this is
[TS]
◼
►
what the Mac was like especially to
[TS]
◼
►
young childhood note to it know a thing
[TS]
◼
►
- it wasn't a change for anything it was
[TS]
◼
►
like the first interface that I've used
[TS]
◼
►
right it was like a little like a little
[TS]
◼
►
toy box like a little place where you
[TS]
◼
►
could rearrange things now they weren't
[TS]
◼
►
real things they were flat
[TS]
◼
►
two-dimensional things but they behaved
[TS]
◼
►
like real things they'd be it was like a
[TS]
◼
►
little diorama okay
[TS]
◼
►
and you just move things around arrange
[TS]
◼
►
things like looks like a little tiny
[TS]
◼
►
world in there and and the great thing
[TS]
◼
►
about it was that you know you could
[TS]
◼
►
draw lines and erase them and you didn't
[TS]
◼
►
you know it wasn't like paper they were
[TS]
◼
►
raised perfectly you could arrange
[TS]
◼
►
things perfectly and align them on this
[TS]
◼
►
pixel grid which is difficult to do in
[TS]
◼
►
real life and everything but but it was
[TS]
◼
►
this little world that you could
[TS]
◼
►
manipulate and the experience of the Mac
[TS]
◼
►
was that you turned it on and that's
[TS]
◼
►
what you saw like it wasn't like a
[TS]
◼
►
program that you ran right it wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
like you were running the finder program
[TS]
◼
►
then you know when you turn the computer
[TS]
◼
►
on on a boot did this is what you saw
[TS]
◼
►
applications ran on the computer when
[TS]
◼
►
you launched an application then you saw
[TS]
◼
►
something else and it was like oh okay
[TS]
◼
►
this is this application is interfaced
[TS]
◼
►
and this has palettes or it's a game or
[TS]
◼
►
it's whatever but when you quit the
[TS]
◼
►
application nothing else is running you
[TS]
◼
►
just saw the computer all right the
[TS]
◼
►
finder is what you saw when all the
[TS]
◼
►
applications were closed it was no
[TS]
◼
►
closing of the finder right to close the
[TS]
◼
►
finder was to turn off the computer and
[TS]
◼
►
the the upshot of this is what I wrote
[TS]
◼
►
way back in 2003 I still believe to this
[TS]
◼
►
day is that back then the finder was the
[TS]
◼
►
computer it's not like it was a program
[TS]
◼
►
running on the computer the finder was
[TS]
◼
►
the computer when it was it was a
[TS]
◼
►
magical little world called the finder
[TS]
◼
►
and that was the entire computer and
[TS]
◼
►
then you could run things on top of it
[TS]
◼
►
those were just like bonuses and the
[TS]
◼
►
reason the Mac was more friendly and
[TS]
◼
►
people liked it was not in my opinion so
[TS]
◼
►
much is because of desktop metaphor but
[TS]
◼
►
because that when everything was quit
[TS]
◼
►
and closed you were just left with the
[TS]
◼
►
you were left this little diorama thing
[TS]
◼
►
that people could understand and manage
[TS]
◼
►
they understood how it works because it
[TS]
◼
►
worked like the real world and if you
[TS]
◼
►
used it for any reasonable period of
[TS]
◼
►
time it was like the light switches in
[TS]
◼
►
your house you arrange things in a
[TS]
◼
►
certain way you knew where things were
[TS]
◼
►
or you chose not to arrange them and you
[TS]
◼
►
just live with the messy junk drawer but
[TS]
◼
►
at least you knew where the junk drawer
[TS]
◼
►
was right and it was it was a bargain
[TS]
◼
►
that people were used to and it felt
[TS]
◼
►
friendly it felt less effort than
[TS]
◼
►
remembering which you have to make a
[TS]
◼
►
conscious effort to remember all these
[TS]
◼
►
commands very few people you know make
[TS]
◼
►
programmers or maybe your UNIX geeks and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff have the capacity to remember all
[TS]
◼
►
these commands because you do have to
[TS]
◼
►
read man pages in the beginning and
[TS]
◼
►
remember what that flag tell s is and
[TS]
◼
►
remember what are the arguments go on on
[TS]
◼
►
the Ln command and stuff like that like
[TS]
◼
►
even no matter how good you are at
[TS]
◼
►
memorizing computers you have to make
[TS]
◼
►
some effort and some people can never
[TS]
◼
►
cross that threshold you know some
[TS]
◼
►
people you tried to teach simple
[TS]
◼
►
command-line stuff they never never get
[TS]
◼
►
over the hump they you know it is an
[TS]
◼
►
effort but if you put someone in front
[TS]
◼
►
of a 1984 Macintosh and you make them
[TS]
◼
►
use it for a week to do simple tasks
[TS]
◼
►
they will eventually figure out the very
[TS]
◼
►
least to find a part of it with like
[TS]
◼
►
okay well where's that file okay it's
[TS]
◼
►
over here over here there it is or
[TS]
◼
►
although you know put stuff on a desktop
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever um and so that was that was
[TS]
◼
►
the the the thing that the Mac
[TS]
◼
►
represented to me that was what made it
[TS]
◼
►
what they called user friendly right it
[TS]
◼
►
was because it wasn't a cop an
[TS]
◼
►
adversarial conversation where you
[TS]
◼
►
weren't getting hints by the computer it
[TS]
◼
►
was because it was more like a thing now
[TS]
◼
►
what else do I have here in my last
[TS]
◼
►
remaining ten minutes which time am I
[TS]
◼
►
be interrupting you on well so all right
[TS]
◼
►
we'll get through it I think all right
[TS]
◼
►
let me let me do the second sponsor we
[TS]
◼
►
also want to say thanks to sound studio
[TS]
◼
►
for its an easy to you I love this app
[TS]
◼
►
review system today's use Mac app for
[TS]
◼
►
recording and editing digital audio on
[TS]
◼
►
your computer you can digitize tapes
[TS]
◼
►
vinyl records you can record live
[TS]
◼
►
performances podcasts whatever you want
[TS]
◼
►
to do and you can edit with it - you can
[TS]
◼
►
do mixes crossfades tweak the levels in
[TS]
◼
►
the EQ you can export in all of your
[TS]
◼
►
favorite formats a if' wav mp3 AAC even
[TS]
◼
►
john Syracuse's favorite the OGG Vorbis
[TS]
◼
►
you can try sound studio for for free
[TS]
◼
►
for 15 days fully functional by visiting
[TS]
◼
►
felt-tip comm /ss for sound studio or if
[TS]
◼
►
you just want to go check it out in the
[TS]
◼
►
App Store you could do it they sell it
[TS]
◼
►
there just search for sound studio or
[TS]
◼
►
sound studio for and you'll find it love
[TS]
◼
►
this app use this app constantly any
[TS]
◼
►
time I need to just do string forward
[TS]
◼
►
recordings I don't want to have to mess
[TS]
◼
►
with logic and all that stuff that's
[TS]
◼
►
overkill for most people really this is
[TS]
◼
►
my go-to app highly recommended please
[TS]
◼
►
go check them out use that right tone
[TS]
◼
►
I do have sound studio I think I got in
[TS]
◼
►
one of those bundles way back when yeah
[TS]
◼
►
probably don't have the latest version
[TS]
◼
►
well the easy it was that was my sound
[TS]
◼
►
edit 16 replacement that's right it's a
[TS]
◼
►
small app shop they've continued to
[TS]
◼
►
update it it's very much
[TS]
◼
►
it's a 64-bit app now it's come a long
[TS]
◼
►
way a lot of new stuff in version 4 that
[TS]
◼
►
I'm happy with for years I was I was
[TS]
◼
►
looking for a replacement for sound data
[TS]
◼
►
16 which was my old go to you just want
[TS]
◼
►
that at some audio app and I couldn't
[TS]
◼
►
find one sound studio was the one I came
[TS]
◼
►
up with years ago I haven't updated it
[TS]
◼
►
since probably because it just still
[TS]
◼
►
works but I'll take a look at the newer
[TS]
◼
►
version so where was that now for
[TS]
◼
►
everything that I just described to work
[TS]
◼
►
for that to happen for that whole
[TS]
◼
►
magical moment of just like not having
[TS]
◼
►
to think about it and getting used to
[TS]
◼
►
where things are and everything for that
[TS]
◼
►
to work things have to be recognizable
[TS]
◼
►
and and recognizable without reading no
[TS]
◼
►
reading reading is like the you know the
[TS]
◼
►
Krugman is that his book don't make me
[TS]
◼
►
think I'm thinking of the Economist was
[TS]
◼
►
like Steve Krug is don't make me think
[TS]
◼
►
there you go right
[TS]
◼
►
when I hear that I think don't make me
[TS]
◼
►
read so things have to be recognizable
[TS]
◼
►
that doesn't mean making you read them
[TS]
◼
►
so that's a type dir or LS and get a
[TS]
◼
►
Content and read stuff or even has a
[TS]
◼
►
type CWD and read that thing no reading
[TS]
◼
►
don't make me read ah
[TS]
◼
►
the best way we recognize things with
[TS]
◼
►
our senses because again we don't we
[TS]
◼
►
didn't involve evolved inside a computer
[TS]
◼
►
we evolved in the world that's how we
[TS]
◼
►
recognize everything with our senses all
[TS]
◼
►
right so I you know the best way to
[TS]
◼
►
recognize things given computer
[TS]
◼
►
technology is visually it's it could be
[TS]
◼
►
argued that sound might be adding sound
[TS]
◼
►
to the mix would help but right now we
[TS]
◼
►
don't do that I would say like smells
[TS]
◼
►
another one okay we recognize things in
[TS]
◼
►
the real world with sound what's with
[TS]
◼
►
all our senses with taste I guess but
[TS]
◼
►
we're not quite ready to go for
[TS]
◼
►
or tasting our computer screens sound
[TS]
◼
►
maybe but no one has figured out a way
[TS]
◼
►
to do that's not annoying because sound
[TS]
◼
►
can be kind of annoying so we were on
[TS]
◼
►
the screen recognize things visually and
[TS]
◼
►
that's what the original finder used and
[TS]
◼
►
the way that worked is that when you
[TS]
◼
►
opened a folder there would be a single
[TS]
◼
►
window that was tied to that folder and
[TS]
◼
►
that window would have a certain size
[TS]
◼
►
shaping position that you could adjust
[TS]
◼
►
because it's like a little thing right
[TS]
◼
►
and because you chose how big to make it
[TS]
◼
►
and where to put it and the arrangement
[TS]
◼
►
of things inside it you would come to
[TS]
◼
►
recognize that arrange that visual thing
[TS]
◼
►
with like you'd recognize it visually
[TS]
◼
►
the same way you recognize you know a
[TS]
◼
►
room in your house or a street or
[TS]
◼
►
anything else you recognize visually oh
[TS]
◼
►
that's that window because I recognize
[TS]
◼
►
it by looking at all right and any
[TS]
◼
►
changes to that state rearranging the
[TS]
◼
►
contents scrolling a little bit you know
[TS]
◼
►
changing the size moving it that had to
[TS]
◼
►
be maintained by the computer because if
[TS]
◼
►
it wasn't then when you saw something on
[TS]
◼
►
the screen that visual information would
[TS]
◼
►
not be a reliable means of
[TS]
◼
►
identification and doesn't take much of
[TS]
◼
►
a deviation to make you start discarding
[TS]
◼
►
that information but if you if you did
[TS]
◼
►
some such weak look let me move that
[TS]
◼
►
over there and then the next time you
[TS]
◼
►
opened it it wasn't over there you start
[TS]
◼
►
to you know consciously or not you start
[TS]
◼
►
to say well I can't rely on these things
[TS]
◼
►
that my eyes are seeing to help me
[TS]
◼
►
identify things I have to I have to
[TS]
◼
►
start reading basically like oh that
[TS]
◼
►
looks like that window use last time
[TS]
◼
►
well no but you know oh that looks like
[TS]
◼
►
a the same arrangement of the icons well
[TS]
◼
►
is it well I have it to read you know
[TS]
◼
►
because if any of these changes that you
[TS]
◼
►
made if you try to arrange your
[TS]
◼
►
workspace if you tried to like say
[TS]
◼
►
you're a painter you put the you know
[TS]
◼
►
by out the the big cup of water over
[TS]
◼
►
there and your palette over here and you
[TS]
◼
►
put the red in the corner and the black
[TS]
◼
►
over there and the white over there and
[TS]
◼
►
you put the little towel over this bar
[TS]
◼
►
so you can get to it and you have your
[TS]
◼
►
seat here and your sandwiches behind you
[TS]
◼
►
up you make that nice arrangement then
[TS]
◼
►
you spend the time doing that and then
[TS]
◼
►
something moves and you go for the water
[TS]
◼
►
thing and it's not where you left it you
[TS]
◼
►
can be like okay I guess we can't get to
[TS]
◼
►
that water thing by just looking for it
[TS]
◼
►
I have to you know look it up by name or
[TS]
◼
►
Salvi's as the analogy falls down
[TS]
◼
►
because in pewter world is different but
[TS]
◼
►
the point is as soon as you stop
[TS]
◼
►
behaving like the real world does in
[TS]
◼
►
terms of state retention the user will
[TS]
◼
►
just start discarding that as valuable
[TS]
◼
►
information and they have to use
[TS]
◼
►
something else and look that something
[TS]
◼
►
else is is usually reading that where am
[TS]
◼
►
i I have to read something now and that
[TS]
◼
►
is way way less efficient you know
[TS]
◼
►
you'll never get to that sort of I know
[TS]
◼
►
world lights which is our thing if you
[TS]
◼
►
have to start reading stuff now the
[TS]
◼
►
finder that I described in the beginning
[TS]
◼
►
is the way the fine to work for 16 years
[TS]
◼
►
1984 through 2001 or so yeah the old
[TS]
◼
►
school fund your favorite finder yeah
[TS]
◼
►
and and that's what I call the spatial
[TS]
◼
►
finder spatial as you know as in you
[TS]
◼
►
know objects in space type of thing I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think I cone that term I probably
[TS]
◼
►
read it somewhere way back when and
[TS]
◼
►
you've just been repeating it since but
[TS]
◼
►
when I say spatial finder that's what I
[TS]
◼
►
mean and when other people say it I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not sure what it is they mean I hope
[TS]
◼
►
they mean the same thing as I do but
[TS]
◼
►
they're talking about you're talking
[TS]
◼
►
about the same thing if you've seen
[TS]
◼
►
Jurassic Park that's not the spatial fun
[TS]
◼
►
that is spatial okay what is that that
[TS]
◼
►
is the thing on SGI it's actually a real
[TS]
◼
►
program that is actually fly through the
[TS]
◼
►
file system no you know what those were
[TS]
◼
►
just like tiles that would fly a tree
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah that's not the spatial okay
[TS]
◼
►
what is it then all right so so it's
[TS]
◼
►
what I just described it's it's that
[TS]
◼
►
finder that works that way that is the
[TS]
◼
►
windows or tied to a single folder that
[TS]
◼
►
any sort of state change you make to the
[TS]
◼
►
arrangement of icons or the size and
[TS]
◼
►
position of the windows is retained
[TS]
◼
►
that's it simple the thing about the
[TS]
◼
►
spatial finder is it's not it's not like
[TS]
◼
►
fetishizing the past or some weird set
[TS]
◼
►
of rules that you have to comply to like
[TS]
◼
►
religion like only it's just an
[TS]
◼
►
arbitrary set of rules and it's it's our
[TS]
◼
►
Bible and we don't question why it's
[TS]
◼
►
there and you have to comply to it
[TS]
◼
►
because we're selling you it's good now
[TS]
◼
►
the spatial finder is a means to an end
[TS]
◼
►
the whole point of the spatial finder
[TS]
◼
►
whether they intended it or not
[TS]
◼
►
the reason it worked is because the way
[TS]
◼
►
that it behaved allowed the visual
[TS]
◼
►
spatial information to be significant
[TS]
◼
►
and it engaged that incredibly powerful
[TS]
◼
►
part of your brain that would recognize
[TS]
◼
►
that stuff and if it work differently if
[TS]
◼
►
you broke one of these rules of the
[TS]
◼
►
spatial finder then that you'd stop
[TS]
◼
►
leveraging that part of the brain so if
[TS]
◼
►
it didn't retain visual state if you
[TS]
◼
►
could have multiple windows open that
[TS]
◼
►
all represented the same folder when you
[TS]
◼
►
made a state change to it you'd be like
[TS]
◼
►
well so am I am i changing the size of
[TS]
◼
►
this folder but because I see it over
[TS]
◼
►
there and it's a different thing so next
[TS]
◼
►
time I open it where is it good you know
[TS]
◼
►
you don't think about this consciously
[TS]
◼
►
but basically what it boils down to is
[TS]
◼
►
that you don't spend the time to arrange
[TS]
◼
►
stuff because you don't have any
[TS]
◼
►
confidence you don't even know what it
[TS]
◼
►
is you're arranging you know how many
[TS]
◼
►
confidence it's gonna be the same way
[TS]
◼
►
the next time you use it
[TS]
◼
►
so in Mac in Mac OS 10 they introduced a
[TS]
◼
►
new model to the finder which is not it
[TS]
◼
►
was not new in 2001 mag was thinking
[TS]
◼
►
about but it was new to the Mac and that
[TS]
◼
►
that's browsing and we're all familiar
[TS]
◼
►
with browsing from web browser it's
[TS]
◼
►
basically the window is kind of like a
[TS]
◼
►
device through which you can view many
[TS]
◼
►
things like my magic magic device a
[TS]
◼
►
magic portal and the browser window is
[TS]
◼
►
wherever it is but the contents of that
[TS]
◼
►
window can be anything right and as you
[TS]
◼
►
change the contents of the window the
[TS]
◼
►
window itself doesn't change so you
[TS]
◼
►
don't you know a particular website
[TS]
◼
►
isn't in a particular position on your
[TS]
◼
►
screen the browser is like a little
[TS]
◼
►
device and you could view that same
[TS]
◼
►
website in seven browser devices all the
[TS]
◼
►
same time and that's the direction they
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to go with the finder in Mac OS
[TS]
◼
►
there's also another model on top of
[TS]
◼
►
that which is of course search which is
[TS]
◼
►
already existed but it's come become
[TS]
◼
►
more important where you type stuff in
[TS]
◼
►
and it just gives you a list of matches
[TS]
◼
►
independent of where they are in the
[TS]
◼
►
file hierarchy right now all these
[TS]
◼
►
models I describe they're useful in
[TS]
◼
►
various contexts my Mangum late with Mac
[TS]
◼
►
OS 10 was that they ditched the first
[TS]
◼
►
one I ditched that spatial model they
[TS]
◼
►
introduced browsing which is good and
[TS]
◼
►
has many purposes they made search a lot
[TS]
◼
►
better with spotlight but they decided
[TS]
◼
►
that that first one wasn't important and
[TS]
◼
►
they decided that basically through
[TS]
◼
►
neglect because they say well can't you
[TS]
◼
►
use the Mac OS and finder like that
[TS]
◼
►
can't you just make all your windows not
[TS]
◼
►
have side bars and toolbars you can't
[TS]
◼
►
this you can try to arrange things as
[TS]
◼
►
much as you want but the finder will
[TS]
◼
►
thwart you because it will spawn windows
[TS]
◼
►
that are browsers
[TS]
◼
►
or you'll browse to a location in a
[TS]
◼
►
browser window and change the size of
[TS]
◼
►
the window and not realize you're
[TS]
◼
►
changing the size of the window window
[TS]
◼
►
that you see in the other mode or maybe
[TS]
◼
►
you think you're changing it but you're
[TS]
◼
►
not or when you change the icon v1 and
[TS]
◼
►
in the browser are you changing the icon
[TS]
◼
►
view next time you open that window from
[TS]
◼
►
the dock maybe you are maybe you are
[TS]
◼
►
like I said it doesn't take much to
[TS]
◼
►
throw you off to make this information
[TS]
◼
►
not reliable and it's a shame that they
[TS]
◼
►
ditch that model because it is the most
[TS]
◼
►
efficient way that people recognize
[TS]
◼
►
things I had a hard time convincing
[TS]
◼
►
people of this back in the 2001 days
[TS]
◼
►
because they were saying well you know I
[TS]
◼
►
use the web browsers regret I use them
[TS]
◼
►
all the time and I like tabs and cool
[TS]
◼
►
stuff like that and I use Windows which
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't exactly behave this way and I'm
[TS]
◼
►
fine with it in fact I like Windows
[TS]
◼
►
Explorer and I like browsing you know
[TS]
◼
►
browsing is all well and good but it was
[TS]
◼
►
difficult to convince people especially
[TS]
◼
►
people who hadn't used the Mac for all
[TS]
◼
►
that time that the the spatial way of
[TS]
◼
►
doing things is good abstractly they
[TS]
◼
►
just don't get it but today I can use
[TS]
◼
►
iOS as an example
[TS]
◼
►
springboard which is the thing you see
[TS]
◼
►
when you turn on an iPhone with a little
[TS]
◼
►
grid of icons right that is a spatial
[TS]
◼
►
interface you pick where you want those
[TS]
◼
►
little icons to go by dragging them
[TS]
◼
►
around or whatever and they don't move
[TS]
◼
►
after you put them there and when new
[TS]
◼
►
ones appear they get tacked on to the
[TS]
◼
►
end or whatever but like stuff stays
[TS]
◼
►
where you put it and you have different
[TS]
◼
►
screens in them and it's like left and
[TS]
◼
►
right you know it's not it's a limited
[TS]
◼
►
spatial world does not really you know
[TS]
◼
►
they added folders but you don't really
[TS]
◼
►
go into them but even within the folders
[TS]
◼
►
it's like a little arrangement you know
[TS]
◼
►
and it's a series of screens it's a
[TS]
◼
►
spatial metaphor of like screen one
[TS]
◼
►
screen - it's a big linear sideways
[TS]
◼
►
one-dimensional list of screens where
[TS]
◼
►
you can swipe back and forth through
[TS]
◼
►
them there's no up and down folders is
[TS]
◼
►
like another little portal into the
[TS]
◼
►
world you can look at one level deep and
[TS]
◼
►
it's another grid of icons um but that's
[TS]
◼
►
things people are used to and if you put
[TS]
◼
►
like you know Safari in the upper left
[TS]
◼
►
hand corner it didn't stay there you
[TS]
◼
►
would be pissed you can feel it when
[TS]
◼
►
your thumb go that's why your thumb can
[TS]
◼
►
find these things when you pull out
[TS]
◼
►
you're following your iPod your thumb
[TS]
◼
►
finds the thing you want because that's
[TS]
◼
►
where you put it you decide that's where
[TS]
◼
►
it's gonna go and you get that muscle
[TS]
◼
►
memory thing now now in the 4 minutes
[TS]
◼
►
remaining well are that's fine for
[TS]
◼
►
Merlin moment which is where you could
[TS]
◼
►
have come in any point but Hatton that's
[TS]
◼
►
why I'm from Merlin moment is that well
[TS]
◼
►
that's fine in 1984 and we had seven
[TS]
◼
►
files but now we've got a bazillion file
[TS]
◼
►
so all the spatial business is crap and
[TS]
◼
►
it's pointless and we shouldn't use it
[TS]
◼
►
well I would point is as an example of a
[TS]
◼
►
modern incarnation of a spatial
[TS]
◼
►
it's value even though when you know the
[TS]
◼
►
year 2000 in the next millennium and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff but I keep coming back to the
[TS]
◼
►
spatial recognition is still the most
[TS]
◼
►
efficient way you have to to recognize
[TS]
◼
►
stuff if you have a lot of things you
[TS]
◼
►
have to fall back to less efficient
[TS]
◼
►
methods yes so for example on iOS if you
[TS]
◼
►
have 8 bazillion apps and you can't find
[TS]
◼
►
them because you're sick of swiped into
[TS]
◼
►
the screens you might resort to search
[TS]
◼
►
but that's that's a resort if we said to
[TS]
◼
►
launch any app you have to do search
[TS]
◼
►
you'd say that that sucks give me back
[TS]
◼
►
my little grid of icons right you know
[TS]
◼
►
there may be better ways to do it than a
[TS]
◼
►
grid of icons but it's it's you know for
[TS]
◼
►
a small number of things it's good and
[TS]
◼
►
we want to use that when we can and if
[TS]
◼
►
you happen to install more apps in that
[TS]
◼
►
you don't like rummaging around farther
[TS]
◼
►
than you can resort to search but but
[TS]
◼
►
it's still a fallback browsing would be
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere in the middle there where you
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to swipe around from screen
[TS]
◼
►
to screen you want to have some sort of
[TS]
◼
►
browsing interface where you can tap tap
[TS]
◼
►
tap and drill your way down to something
[TS]
◼
►
but you really don't have too much of a
[TS]
◼
►
hierarchy and in iOS for that and the
[TS]
◼
►
finder is similar I think it should be a
[TS]
◼
►
hierarchy of things where and it kind of
[TS]
◼
►
is a Mac OS then where for example
[TS]
◼
►
applications in that goes down the
[TS]
◼
►
application to use the most for regular
[TS]
◼
►
people are in the dock that's that's a
[TS]
◼
►
pretty much a spatial interface you put
[TS]
◼
►
them where you want them in the dock
[TS]
◼
►
they stay there the dock is always in
[TS]
◼
►
the same place assuming you don't move
[TS]
◼
►
it and that's your top level we're
[TS]
◼
►
finding stuff and if you have more than
[TS]
◼
►
that like most of us do you want some
[TS]
◼
►
sort of second level let's go with
[TS]
◼
►
search and I use Quicksilver for that
[TS]
◼
►
where you know it's it's search but it's
[TS]
◼
►
really really fast and it's limited to
[TS]
◼
►
just applications real like ok it's not
[TS]
◼
►
in the dock but I know I have this
[TS]
◼
►
application let me do command space and
[TS]
◼
►
type the first few letters the thing oh
[TS]
◼
►
there it is it returned right but that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's the second level very very few
[TS]
◼
►
people I would imagine are using
[TS]
◼
►
Quicksilver to launch an app that they
[TS]
◼
►
have in the dock maybe if they're always
[TS]
◼
►
on the keyboard and their hands aren't
[TS]
◼
►
on the mouse they might find that more
[TS]
◼
►
efficient and in Lion they're adding one
[TS]
◼
►
more intermediate layer there where it's
[TS]
◼
►
not you don't see it in the dock well
[TS]
◼
►
we'll give you like springboard and Mac
[TS]
◼
►
right so it's its launch pad thing where
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to give you essentially a
[TS]
◼
►
spatial view of all your applications in
[TS]
◼
►
a grid presumably arranged in some
[TS]
◼
►
fashion I don't know if you can manually
[TS]
◼
►
arrange those things or if they
[TS]
◼
►
alphabetical or whatever that it remains
[TS]
◼
►
to be seen whether this will be truly
[TS]
◼
►
spatial but they don't want you to have
[TS]
◼
►
to resort to rummaging through the file
[TS]
◼
►
system and when it comes to rummaging
[TS]
◼
►
through the file system which we do do
[TS]
◼
►
increasingly less with
[TS]
◼
►
you could use a browser to do that if
[TS]
◼
►
you want I just have one window and you
[TS]
◼
►
don't really know where things are or
[TS]
◼
►
you could do it the pseudo spatial way
[TS]
◼
►
and hope you just don't get any browser
[TS]
◼
►
windows in between but the main pitch of
[TS]
◼
►
the spatial finder is that spatial
[TS]
◼
►
interfaces is good are good and anytime
[TS]
◼
►
you do something that makes them not
[TS]
◼
►
work you're probably making a mistake
[TS]
◼
►
and so into the definer in particular I
[TS]
◼
►
think it's a shame that they ditched the
[TS]
◼
►
spatial way to operate it
[TS]
◼
►
simply because for many classes of work
[TS]
◼
►
that is still the most efficient method
[TS]
◼
►
and there's no reason to forgo entirely
[TS]
◼
►
add the other methods fine make search
[TS]
◼
►
better add browsing fine but there's no
[TS]
◼
►
reason to kill the spatial way and many
[TS]
◼
►
reasons to keep it as evidence by I
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't stuff for that that's basically
[TS]
◼
►
what they started with before they even
[TS]
◼
►
had search it was all staged and it
[TS]
◼
►
worked buying a work where can people
[TS]
◼
►
loved it and found it easy to use so how
[TS]
◼
►
can I disagree with you means makes
[TS]
◼
►
sense that's why I didn't want to do
[TS]
◼
►
this show because it makes sense we had
[TS]
◼
►
more time you would argue more maybe
[TS]
◼
►
we'll come back to it so I hope not
[TS]
◼
►
because I don't like this time I feel
[TS]
◼
►
like you said B's I don't disagree with
[TS]
◼
►
you it's fine spatial fun great I want
[TS]
◼
►
to tell you about the finder where you
[TS]
◼
►
fly through the file system like that I
[TS]
◼
►
know you're bringing that up as a what
[TS]
◼
►
is a making fun of this all spatial
[TS]
◼
►
interface no one wants to fly through
[TS]
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stuff you know what about that weird
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finder where things are up on the walls
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it's like a 3d thing you flip it around
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you know I'm talking about I don't but
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it looks like a room you can put stuff
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on the walls of your room oh yeah oh
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yeah yeah yeah I've seen those it's
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weird yeah no but I got a rat we got to
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stop I get a stop I got a the real
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estate person wait I got literally we
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get into a car right now all right all
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to be continued possibly huh we'll see
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don't send us email about it we'll just
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because we don't need more moments
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but John have a great week thanks forfor
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compressing yourself down into just 60
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minutes I try and thanks everybody for
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listening pee sure to check out get
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harvest calm and felt-tip calm and can
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follow John it what is it siracusa si
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RAC us a on Twitter I'm Dan benjamin on
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twitter and we appreciate you being here
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today thanks everybody tuning in thanks
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John have a great Memorial Day weekend
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you too and that's it everybody will see
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y'all again next week
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