19: Don't Make Me Read


  [Music] [TS]

  this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the microcosm of Apple from related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect that it cannot be destroyed [TS]

  by my co-host John siracusa i'm dan [TS]

  benjamin and this is episode 19 like to [TS]

  say a quick thank you to our two [TS]

  sponsors today get harvest calm and felt [TS]

  tips sound studio for which we'll tell [TS]

  you about is a program commences how are [TS]

  you John I'm pretty good it's a good day [TS]

  for you today it's Friday before a [TS]

  holiday weekend yeah it's gonna be nice [TS]

  we got a hard stop at an hour though [TS]

  hard stop I mean like hard is slam the [TS]

  slam the laptop shut walk out the door [TS]

  kind of hard stop we'll see what we can [TS]

  do I hate doing that to you because I [TS]

  know you like to go along Sarah I think [TS]

  by the time an hour is up this room will [TS]

  be put darn hot you know you're out the [TS]

  summer podcasting situation oh I don't [TS]

  think I can have the a/c on because it [TS]

  will be too noisy that's what I'm just [TS]

  doing turning it off oh why don't you [TS]

  throw it off flip the switch you'll see [TS]

  I don't want you to suffer she shouldn't [TS]

  have to suffer for your art in 2011 I'll [TS]

  go as long as I can we'll say well just [TS]

  turn it on let's see here at the noise [TS]

  and alright Anna that might not be bad [TS]

  once we get you a good mic it won't be [TS]

  bad I'm not editing any of this out it's [TS]

  all stays what do you think I don't hear [TS]

  a thing no reason for you to suffer it [TS]

  sounds great [TS]

  alright I'll leave it on and leave it on [TS]

  I don't want you to said be tough I mean [TS]

  you you're angry enough as it is [TS]

  haven't you sweating in a sweat box in [TS]

  there and then your old family is a dad [TS]

  take a shower [TS]

  terrible alright let's get started on [TS]

  the clock we're on the clock [TS]

  yep let's go we're starting to up time [TS]

  yeah so what I did last week is I timed [TS]

  how long it took my toaster to toast a [TS]

  piece of bread ah starting from a cold [TS]

  start what did you do last week I moved [TS]

  1,300 miles across the country but did [TS]

  your time your toaster no I didn't I did [TS]

  not it was in a box and a moving truck [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  unbelievable I know how long did it take [TS]

  I was close with my estimate it took [TS]

  five minutes and eight second what for [TS]

  single piece of bread come on five [TS]

  minutes and 18 seconds I find it that's [TS]

  not I know that's that's and you're [TS]

  asking me last week like how long would [TS]

  you take I just had to long well that's [TS]

  that is to or that really long too long [TS]

  it's just too darn long like next day it [TS]

  doesn't seem like a long time the next [TS]

  time you wake up in the morning look at [TS]

  your clock and wait until the hand moves [TS]

  five minutes and think that's how long [TS]

  to get in Stokes that's how long John [TS]

  siracusa waits for his toast no good [TS]

  that is really a long time now before [TS]

  you get it too much into your tirade [TS]

  here III just want to say straight up at [TS]

  the front of this at the top of the show [TS]

  the the biggest response that I saw [TS]

  coming in about toasters was if what he [TS]

  wants is toast why doesn't he just use a [TS]

  slot toaster oven they make really good [TS]

  toast and both sides get toasted and [TS]

  only takes like 45 seconds see when we [TS]

  just jump right to that point sure uh I [TS]

  I thought that kind of went without [TS]

  saying maybe it's just I thought it was [TS]

  implied in my discussion of toaster [TS]

  ovens that I want to toaster oven [TS]

  because I use the oven part of it I [TS]

  didn't talk about the oven part of it [TS]

  because that wasn't just kept talking [TS]

  that toast right but at the toast was [TS]

  the part doesn't work in the toaster up [TS]

  in the oven part of the toaster oven [TS]

  you know it works like an oven I don't [TS]

  have particular complaints about that [TS]

  part and the next question is well why [TS]

  not just get both of them on I have a [TS]

  slot toaster for toast and a toaster [TS]

  oven for whatever you use that for I [TS]

  just don't have the counter space for [TS]

  two appliances you know so it's like we [TS]

  have room for the toaster oven but no [TS]

  place really to put the slot toaster [TS]

  where we could get one so if I'm forced [TS]

  to choose between the two appliances I [TS]

  pick the one that can do two different [TS]

  things and I mentioned in the last show [TS]

  that you shouldn't be making pizza in [TS]

  your toaster I meant like cooking pizza [TS]

  one thing that you should be using your [TS]

  toaster for or your oven is for things [TS]

  like reheating a slice of pizza you [TS]

  should not reheat the leftover pizza in [TS]

  the microwave it just becomes a soggy [TS]

  disgustingness if you have a lot of [TS]

  pizza to reheat yeah use your oven but [TS]

  if it's if you just have one slice of [TS]

  pizza and you want to heat it up for [TS]

  lunch or something let's put the toaster [TS]

  oven is for um and it works right even [TS]

  my crappy toaster heats up the pizza [TS]

  just fine so that that's the slot [TS]

  toaster [TS]

  toaster oven thing actually it I'll [TS]

  circle back to it after I talk about [TS]

  this next bit here so this is the best [TS]

  part about having a podcast or popular [TS]

  podcast we got in an email from someone [TS]

  who used to design toasters at Sunbeam [TS]

  in the 1980s and he described all the [TS]

  different aspects of toasters and why [TS]

  I'm unhappy with my toaster a nice long [TS]

  email this is exactly the kind of thing [TS]

  you're looking for like an expert guy [TS]

  who's been there and wrenches oh yeah to [TS]

  tell us about [TS]

  toaster technology so I'm not gonna go [TS]

  into every detail that he got we got two [TS]

  but the main thing he pinpointed about [TS]

  my toaster and the reason it takes so [TS]

  long is because it uses a steel tube [TS]

  with internal coiled resistant wire [TS]

  surrounding an electrical insulating [TS]

  chip to produce heat I think I just [TS]

  mangled that but anyway it's the thing [TS]

  that heats up the thing that turns [TS]

  orange is of a particular type that [TS]

  takes a long time to heat up and his his [TS]

  estimate was that it's going to take [TS]

  like at least two minutes before that [TS]

  thing starts glowing orange and the [TS]

  glowing orange part is important because [TS]

  toasters heat up things in different [TS]

  ways the way he listed was a conduction [TS]

  convection and radiation and radiation [TS]

  heat is the one you want to like brown [TS]

  your toast and that only happens once [TS]

  you once the thing turns orange is a my [TS]

  impression for reading this email so [TS]

  since it takes my toaster two minutes [TS]

  even to get that thing glowing orange [TS]

  right away that that first two minutes [TS]

  is not making you toast what it is doing [TS]

  is it basically baking your bread or [TS]

  turning it into a crouton or doing [TS]

  something that's not real like it's [TS]

  making it hot and strong it out but it's [TS]

  not toasting it and the the the [TS]

  benchmark for good toast is apparently [TS]

  you want the outside to be toasted and [TS]

  like lightly carbonized right or browned [TS]

  or whatever but the inside should not be [TS]

  all dried out it should still be like [TS]

  moist you shouldn't have taken every [TS]

  ounce of water and evaporated it out of [TS]

  the middle of the toast so the longer [TS]

  that piece of bread sits in there the [TS]

  more it becomes a crouton the less it [TS]

  becomes toast which is why slot toasters [TS]

  make better toast because they very [TS]

  quickly heat the outsides of the bread [TS]

  and yes they do it evenly and so on and [TS]

  so forth and because they do it so [TS]

  quickly the inside is still moist when [TS]

  they pop up you've got a toasted outside [TS]

  the end of oyster inside now obviously [TS]

  I'm not a toast kind of store all I just [TS]

  want is the top and bottom to be cooked [TS]

  relatively evenly and I can see how what [TS]

  what he's saying is true that if I had a [TS]

  slot toaster the inside of my [TS]

  would be more moist than it is in this [TS]

  toaster because for the first two [TS]

  minutes is just you know taking moisture [TS]

  out of the bread that that doesn't [TS]

  magically give me more counter space but [TS]

  it does make me consider like is there [TS]

  something else I can move on the [TS]

  counters to make room for a slot toaster [TS]

  because maybe this is worth doing if I [TS]

  can find a good slot toaster just to [TS]

  just to see what the what it's like to [TS]

  have better toast but I think I would [TS]

  also be happy with a working toaster [TS]

  oven so this guy I should give his name [TS]

  there Lowell Burnham some other thing he [TS]

  mentioned was uh different kinds of [TS]

  heating elements and toasters another [TS]

  one is a a radiant coil inside a clear [TS]

  quartz tube which apparently glows [TS]

  orange in about 15 seconds it gets much [TS]

  hotter than the steel thing does the [TS]

  only problem with that is that it could [TS]

  have a tendency to scorch because it [TS]

  does get so hot so it's like it's like a [TS]

  balancing between the steel elements [TS]

  that I have that probably do a better [TS]

  job of baking without scorching versus [TS]

  these which do a better job of toasting [TS]

  and it is apparently a fairly big [TS]

  balancing act to get a toaster oven that [TS]

  does toast well does oven well it's a [TS]

  constant trade-off which is why he was [TS]

  basically saying you're never going to [TS]

  get a toaster oven that makes his good [TS]

  toast is slot toaster because it's [TS]

  trying to do too many different things [TS]

  and everything that works towards making [TS]

  better toast works against the oven [TS]

  function I I still was like something [TS]

  that has a reasonable balance and I felt [TS]

  like I had a reasonable balance back in [TS]

  the day he mentioned at the old Black & [TS]

  Decker I was talking about was actually [TS]

  AG small appliances oven that changed [TS]

  owners when G was sold to black & decker [TS]

  so it should it shows that there is some [TS]

  memory of like that one model that we [TS]

  were all talking about it rang up I'm [TS]

  also saying Westinghouse I don't know if [TS]

  that was a related brand but back in the [TS]

  day when there were fewer models [TS]

  apparently whatever balance that one [TS]

  struck over many years of refinement and [TS]

  development I liked that balance and if [TS]

  I could find one that had that balance I [TS]

  would take it and it was nice to see [TS]

  that in the show notes for last week's [TS]

  show after it was over you added your [TS]

  toaster and and Marko's toaster and then [TS]

  I added my toaster so if you go back to [TS]

  last week's show notes you can find [TS]

  amazon links to all three of our [TS]

  toasters and compare them if you look at [TS]

  the amazon reviews or my toaster there's [TS]

  some horrible ones in there nobody likes [TS]

  it surprise surprise [TS]

  one person sided exploded firing shards [TS]

  of glass everywhere mine has done that [TS]

  yet but it's definitely not a good [TS]

  toaster yeah your toaster was like 180 [TS]

  bucks as predicted right and Marcos was [TS]

  in that price range too but I got to [TS]

  tell you after looking at your toaster [TS]

  and hearing your your reviews of it and [TS]

  looking at the reviews online or reading [TS]

  the manual and looking at the [TS]

  measurements and everything I'm tempted [TS]

  to give your toaster a try so it's I put [TS]

  it on the Amazon wish list well I'll [TS]

  tell I'll tell you what you my wife [TS]

  researched this toaster and she is she [TS]

  is the best at researching things and at [TS]

  finding you know I don't want to say [TS]

  finding deals because it's not about [TS]

  that it's finding the right quality to [TS]

  cost ratio and she did a lot she did [TS]

  liked a lot of research on this toaster [TS]

  and because I had to look a certain way [TS]

  and be a certain thing with the other [TS]

  thing and she this is really the [TS]

  culmination of a lot of her you know her [TS]

  research combined with my somewhat [TS]

  specific requirements of the that you [TS]

  know when I do want to cook something in [TS]

  or do something it has to be a certain [TS]

  thing as to easy-to-clean really like [TS]

  this toaster I don't think Marcos [TS]

  toaster is worth your time I get I would [TS]

  didn't but is on my wish list that [TS]

  interface look bad and I that is his [TS]

  buttons were underneath the lit the the [TS]

  front lid thing that flaps down like [TS]

  when you open it you're covering the [TS]

  controls that seems silly to my strange [TS]

  this is also I think a little bit bigger [TS]

  your measurements are actually very [TS]

  similar to the measurements of my [TS]

  toaster so it would fit in the spot I [TS]

  have on it for the counter so anyway [TS]

  it's on the list maybe I'll ask for it [TS]

  as a Christmas present I maybe I will [TS]

  buy it for you guys because don't that [TS]

  be an exciting Christmas toaster maybe [TS]

  we should take a little donation from [TS]

  the audience that one that want you to [TS]

  have this and we you know take a little [TS]

  funds or something you don't have to [TS]

  pass the Hat I can I can afford a [TS]

  toaster it's just a question of pulling [TS]

  the trigger deciding that I want this in [TS]

  my life and that I can't handle the [TS]

  toaster that I have now or should I just [TS]

  continue to use the toaster that I have [TS]

  now until it actually does melt into a [TS]

  pile of cheap plastic and bright metal [TS]

  well because I have no idea where we're [TS]

  going to be living and and when we'll [TS]

  actually get our stuff into that place I [TS]

  if you can wait for however many weeks [TS]

  it takes to for all of that to be sorted [TS]

  out [TS]

  if you can wait then when the toaster [TS]

  finally arrives here in Austin I will I [TS]

  we I will time it I will make a video [TS]

  for you I'll do whatever you like just [TS]

  just to stop watch the cold start in the [TS]

  morning put the bread in close the door [TS]

  press those button start the clock take [TS]

  it out when you think it's done to your [TS]

  satisfaction I didn't go super dark [TS]

  toast it was you know just brown it's [TS]

  one but also by the way I took mine out [TS]

  when the bottom was brown the top was [TS]

  not even toasted yet because my toaster [TS]

  is so horrible does one side so if I had [TS]

  waited for both you can't wait for both [TS]

  sides to be done because by the time the [TS]

  top is done the bottom is burnt so I was [TS]

  going entirely bought based on the [TS]

  bottom so it would take even longer if [TS]

  I'd waited for the top to get some color [TS]

  on I have a bad toaster is the moral not [TS]

  terrible all right a couple more quick [TS]

  follow-ups so I was talking about [TS]

  Twitter and in-band signaling the other [TS]

  day I'm surprised I didn't see more of [TS]

  this in the chat room one or two people [TS]

  in the chat room picked it up but [TS]

  apparently I'm completely out of the [TS]

  loop on Twitter because in May of last [TS]

  year at some presentation in London [TS]

  Twitter announced a new thing called [TS]

  Twitter annotations which is just what [TS]

  it sounds like it allows you when [TS]

  sending a tweet to just tack on a bunch [TS]

  of annotations that's metadata it's [TS]

  exactly what I was talking about it's [TS]

  basically arbitrary metadata for your [TS]

  tweet so you could put in whatever you [TS]

  want there and then clients just have to [TS]

  read that metadata and apply it and [TS]

  apparently this is what Twitter itself [TS]

  uses or something similar to do it's [TS]

  like link short and stuff so that the [TS]

  text it's not really what I want it [TS]

  because the text in tweet still has the [TS]

  link shortener length the TCO thing but [TS]

  then the annotation is tell you what the [TS]

  real URL is so you don't have to go look [TS]

  it up through the shortener or anything [TS]

  like that but you could in theory use [TS]

  these annotations for everything for you [TS]

  know who you're applying to us you [TS]

  wouldn't have to have the @ name at the [TS]

  beginning of the tweet links you know [TS]

  you could just have like byte-range [TS]

  offsets and or you can even do like a [TS]

  markup type thing where you just tag the [TS]

  the the pieces of information and then [TS]

  link them back to a URL like basically [TS]

  there is a facility for doing this the [TS]

  fact that it hasn't been picked up was [TS]

  probably just momentum because you need [TS]

  you need the clients to support it and [TS]

  it's kind of a chicken and egg thing and [TS]

  who's going to be the first client to [TS]

  support this type of thing or who's [TS]

  going to be the first client to generate [TS]

  these types of tweets like sort of rich [TS]

  Exce tweets with annotations on them [TS]

  when they're not sure that anybody else [TS]

  will be able to see it or that it'll [TS]

  look all weird and screwed up when other [TS]

  people see it so the transition is [TS]

  always a difficult part transitioning [TS]

  from clients that work the way they do [TS]

  now to ones that use this annotations [TS]

  instead of everything being in line so [TS]

  it may be too little too late but you [TS]

  can't really fault twitter for not [TS]

  having an api the only weird thing about [TS]

  it is that the the total size of [TS]

  annotations can't be any more than 512 [TS]

  bytes they're really big on their data [TS]

  limits so you don't get you could [TS]

  probably blow through that with you know [TS]

  a bunch of long URLs in a tweet and [TS]

  already you're out of them this is a [TS]

  total size of like the entire annotation [TS]

  not just the values this is I think like [TS]

  you can you pack it up to JSON or [TS]

  whatever that whole thing has to be like [TS]

  512 bytes and they say they're hoping to [TS]

  increase that up to 2k but it's not like [TS]

  for attaching images for example or [TS]

  anything like that but I do have an API [TS]

  for it and the fact that I'd never heard [TS]

  of it shows just how few clients are [TS]

  apparently using this it's kind of a [TS]

  shame that it's out there and it doesn't [TS]

  seem to be a clear transition path maybe [TS]

  when Twitter has completely wiped out [TS]

  all the third-party clients they will be [TS]

  more free to more quickly innovate with [TS]

  the clients they own and control adding [TS]

  support for these annotations alright [TS]

  what else will be having what else have [TS]

  you got in there [TS]

  we're definitely yeah intel SSD [TS]

  warranties are now up to five years a [TS]

  bunch of people sent me that when we're [TS]

  talking about SSD reliability did you [TS]

  see that story go by this week no I [TS]

  totally missed that one I haven't been [TS]

  following used as much because [TS]

  everything going on what did it say so [TS]

  it's like Intel's new line of SSDs like [TS]

  the you know they're they're brand new [TS]

  best performing SSDs now have a [TS]

  five-year warranty on and you know the [TS]

  press releases say you know Intel is so [TS]

  confident and so happy with the [TS]

  reliability of its of its devices that [TS]

  it's increasing the warranty on these [TS]

  things to five years and they're they're [TS]

  working great and blah blah blah and a [TS]

  lot of people sent this in to me you [TS]

  know saying see your worries are [TS]

  unfounded because these things have five [TS]

  year warranties and hard drives most [TS]

  hard drives only have three so SSDs you [TS]

  know they must have a lot of confidence [TS]

  that these things are going to last a [TS]

  long time when I see a company increase [TS]

  its warranties like that and do a press [TS]

  release about it it makes me more wary [TS]

  maybe them too cynical more worried [TS]

  about reliability not less because very [TS]

  rarely does it man [TS]

  factor increase its warranty with [TS]

  fanfare unless it's a reaction against [TS]

  any you know bad PR that they have [TS]

  reliability problems you know like they [TS]

  want to show that we are not like those [TS]

  other SS all right reliability problems [TS]

  ours are really safe trust us but I mean [TS]

  you could say like well who cares what [TS]

  the reasoning is five years is still [TS]

  five years and whether they're doing or [TS]

  for cynical reasons or not or just to [TS]

  try to get you to buy their stuff or try [TS]

  to counter the prevailing story about [TS]

  reliability who cares you still get a [TS]

  free one for five years so I am pretty [TS]

  much happy that their increase in the [TS]

  warranty to five years but I am still [TS]

  suspicious of the reliability and the [TS]

  other thing about this warranty is that [TS]

  it's not like five years period full [TS]

  stop it's five years but there's like [TS]

  fine print text that says but we have [TS]

  our own little internal calibration on [TS]

  each drive that says you get X number of [TS]

  gigabytes of i/o per unit of time and if [TS]

  you blow through a we consider to be the [TS]

  the lifetimes work of this SSD and if [TS]

  you blow through that in a year and a [TS]

  half or two years because you're [TS]

  constantly reading writing huge blocks [TS]

  well then tough you don't get your [TS]

  warranty and they have a different a [TS]

  different price range for like [TS]

  enterprise usage versus regular usage [TS]

  and while I was clicking around those [TS]

  stories and so someone else's link I [TS]

  wish I could find it but I couldn't find [TS]

  ever the show notes but they were [TS]

  showing what their drive was reporting [TS]

  as the useful life left in it after [TS]

  using it for a year because you could [TS]

  just you can query the drive and say [TS]

  what how much life time you have left [TS]

  like sort of like the oil lifetime on [TS]

  your car or whatever and he was way [TS]

  farther through the lifetime his Drive [TS]

  than he thought he would be after only a [TS]

  year and a half or so I don't know what [TS]

  Intel's numbers are for the usage but [TS]

  the fact that there's a tiered thing for [TS]

  enterprise versus regular user and stuff [TS]

  and the fact that the five-year thing is [TS]

  null and void if you go through what it [TS]

  considers to be a reasonable amount of [TS]

  i/o it just gets back to that you know [TS]

  the nature of solid-state storage is [TS]

  that there's a limited number of rights [TS]

  that you get and once you go through [TS]

  them it's a physical limit on the [TS]

  storage that's that's it you know [TS]

  there's no getting around that so that [TS]

  you know they give you over capacity [TS]

  sometimes that Enterprise drives to give [TS]

  you like four or five times the space [TS]

  you actually need to give you the [TS]

  Headroom to do all those right so when [TS]

  you wear out a certain section of cells [TS]

  they move to another one yeah these [TS]

  things will be started at in time I [TS]

  think the warranty increase is a move in [TS]

  the right direction [TS]

  I just hope Intel doesn't lose it [TS]

  on the warranty increase they probably [TS]

  won't because most people will buy these [TS]

  things and not using that heavily and so [TS]

  it'll be fine but I'm feeling that I use [TS]

  my drives pretty heavily giving them [TS]

  have disc thrashing I see my system [TS]

  doing most of the time especially with [TS]

  all the backups constantly raising all [TS]

  reading all this data downloading this [TS]

  last night that so I continue to wait [TS]

  once I can get a one terabyte SSD for a [TS]

  reasonable price I will almost certainly [TS]

  buy one but that day is not today [TS]

  all right I think it's all the follow up [TS]

  I have record time huh that was really [TS]

  good time I mean 20 22 minutes not less [TS]

  than that 18 cents yes it's a fantastic [TS]

  you're under sponsor you're gonna stick [TS]

  it in later I'll stick it in now this [TS]

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  out there they want to you know they [TS]

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  the system how do they do that well with [TS]

  this you could just you can take a [TS]

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  straight into the app how cool is that [TS]

  well harvest is free for 30-days [TS]

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  love these guys now let's let's make it [TS]

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  out get harvest calm I've heard so many [TS]

  horror stories of people who do travel [TS]

  for work have the things they have to go [TS]

  through to get reimbursed oh yeah are [TS]

  the expenses that they incurred that did [TS]

  not is perhaps the vision is the least [TS]

  evolved part of corporate culture so [TS]

  many other parts of you know have gotten [TS]

  better over the years but that's like [TS]

  that that's where the trolls live in the [TS]

  department that tries to give you the [TS]

  money for your cab fare or whatever [TS]

  alright ready for the show's topic I'm [TS]

  so ready I'm ready [TS]

  you're not ready [TS]

  the topic you didn't want oh no not this [TS]

  one yes this was this is the one all [TS]

  right you're lucky it'll be it'll be it [TS]

  you know it has to be short yeah you [TS]

  your CE will suffer not too much [TS]

  microwave ovens no oh so I'm gonna talk [TS]

  about the finder um this is something I [TS]

  talked about a lot a while ago I don't [TS]

  feel like I've talked about that much [TS]

  since but people are sick of hearing [TS]

  about it from me so there is sort of [TS]

  this I don't know [TS]

  worn-out factor to the topic that's [TS]

  probably why you don't want to hear [TS]

  about it but you're going to because I [TS]

  think it's time so I wrote about this [TS]

  originally about eight years ago makes [TS]

  me feel old to say that but that's how [TS]

  long it was and I think probably to this [TS]

  day it is my least understood article [TS]

  mostly because I did a bad job of [TS]

  communicating it's not the fault of the [TS]

  reader that it was least understood it's [TS]

  it's my fault now when I go back and [TS]

  read it it looks like everything I [TS]

  wanted to say is in there so it's not [TS]

  like I didn't say what I wanted to say [TS]

  but I said a bunch of other stuff too [TS]

  and if you're not me you don't know [TS]

  which stuff you should be concentrating [TS]

  on like those it's just too big and [TS]

  flabby really this is linked in the show [TS]

  notes it's the first link in the show [TS]

  notes the title of the article was about [TS]

  the finder from April 2003 I tried to [TS]

  when I did a retrospective like last [TS]

  year about ten years of Mac os10 reviews [TS]

  I tried to summarize the issues that [TS]

  were described originally in that 2003 [TS]

  article I think that's a bitter you know [TS]

  read six paragraphs and figure out what [TS]

  back I'm talking about summary but it [TS]

  does assume knowledge of reason that [TS]

  came before it I think so I'm not sure [TS]

  how good it is for a starting point but [TS]

  I have that in the show notes as well [TS]

  the page that link - you just have to [TS]

  scroll down a little bit to get to the [TS]

  part where I talk about the finder again [TS]

  so this time on the show I'm going to [TS]

  give it another another run at this [TS]

  topic because maybe talking I'll be [TS]

  better than I was writing about it I [TS]

  really doubt it but we'll give it a go [TS]

  I'm going to try slightly different [TS]

  angle this time because every other [TS]

  thing that I've tried has not worked [TS]

  that well this requires some [TS]

  participation from you meaning you [TS]

  ask questions and and challenge me on [TS]

  things don't make sense to you because I [TS]

  really just talked about and thought [TS]

  about this so much and maybe glossing [TS]

  over things okay thank you for [TS]

  permission to do that beyond yours be on [TS]

  your toes all right all right so what [TS]

  what the heck are we talking about this [TS]

  is my new ankle a new angle as as I [TS]

  usually do on the show is to start from [TS]

  the history and I will it put it in [TS]

  historical context I'll get that bus so [TS]

  what I'm going to describe here is what [TS]

  were the earliest sort of mass-market PC [TS]

  interfaces what were they like like you [TS]

  know pcs that were used more than by a [TS]

  dozen or so people we don't really like [TS]

  the first time I don't like Apple to IBM [TS]

  PC the first time the personal computer [TS]

  started to appear as a phrase and Time [TS]

  magazine and stuff like that the dawning [TS]

  of the PC age [TS]

  so what were those interfaces like and [TS]

  how I'm going to categorize them as they [TS]

  were like conversations so you turn on [TS]

  this this PC thing that you've got and [TS]

  it would do some stuff and eventually [TS]

  you'd be faced with sort of a blinking [TS]

  prompt asking for input so that was the [TS]

  conversation starter was the computer [TS]

  saying to you and what what will you [TS]

  have me do if I do like some instruction [TS]

  right and there's really no indication [TS]

  what it is you should do with that like [TS]

  you have the paper manual that came with [TS]

  the computer and you could read about it [TS]

  you can learn something but just looking [TS]

  at if you just brought the computer out [TS]

  of the box you never use a PC before you [TS]

  turned it on you got that blinking [TS]

  prompt assuming you could even figure [TS]

  out that it wanted you to type on a [TS]

  keyboard to enter text at that prompt [TS]

  which you would probably figure out [TS]

  shortly you don't know what to type but [TS]

  presuming you read the manual whatever [TS]

  you know you would type instruction [TS]

  that's your side of the conversation and [TS]

  then you hit return to send it to the [TS]

  computer and the computer would give you [TS]

  an answer that read to tell you the [TS]

  result of the question that you asked or [TS]

  maybe you would ask follow-up questions [TS]

  or would do something in response to [TS]

  your command but it was basically a [TS]

  conversation you tell what to do it [TS]

  gives information back to you tell [TS]

  something different it gives information [TS]

  back back and forth right and that was [TS]

  the dominant paradigm of using a PC as [TS]

  far as people were concerned [TS]

  basically until the Macintosh I mean and [TS]

  again I'm only talking mass-market and I [TS]

  want to get email from the people who [TS]

  will tell me that you know such-and-such [TS]

  computer had a GUI before the Mac and [TS]

  everything that Mac was the one that [TS]

  popularized this for better or for worse [TS]

  and it you know it gets the credit in [TS]

  history so when the Macintosh came [TS]

  around and it started to be appear [TS]

  magazines and everything it was a [TS]

  different experience you turned on a Mac [TS]

  when you first got out of the box and [TS]

  you didn't get a command prompt so there [TS]

  was no you know the reason you got a [TS]

  command prompt models other computers is [TS]

  it was like usually basic or something [TS]

  built-in so what you were typing at in [TS]

  the beginning was probably a basic [TS]

  prompt or you were going to type some [TS]

  sort of command to tell it what Drive to [TS]

  load you know the program out of or [TS]

  whatever to boot from this driver to run [TS]

  this program and this driver something [TS]

  like that when you turn it on a Mac you [TS]

  didn't get a prompt of any kind and if [TS]

  you did if your just took it out of the [TS]

  box plugged in turns it on what you [TS]

  would get is a picture on the screen of [TS]

  what was supposed to be a floppy disk [TS]

  which may or may not have been [TS]

  recognizable to people because these [TS]

  disks look a little bit different than [TS]

  the older floppy disks with a blinking [TS]

  question mark on it and I was trying to [TS]

  tell you like that's it's it's visual [TS]

  way of saying disk do you have a disk [TS]

  for me and there's nothing you could do [TS]

  with that screen you couldn't type stuff [TS]

  there was no command prompt you couldn't [TS]

  you know click on anything even if you [TS]

  know how to use the mouse it was saying [TS]

  that it needed a disk with pictures but [TS]

  not with words which is interesting [TS]

  because it saves on localization you [TS]

  know obviously this has to be in the ROM [TS]

  you don't have to localize the ROM so [TS]

  use a picture of the floppy disk with a [TS]

  question mark [TS]

  assuming you figured out that that it [TS]

  wanted a disk you take the disk the [TS]

  computer came with and you shove it in [TS]

  there and it would start going through [TS]

  all this stuff would bring up a little [TS]

  box it says welcome to Macintosh and [TS]

  eventually would boot into what we now [TS]

  know is the finder but what if you were [TS]

  just looking at this what you would say [TS]

  is a bunch of pictures on the screen [TS]

  with little rectangles that look kind of [TS]

  like little pieces of paper with the [TS]

  Kalama faulted and little diamond shapes [TS]

  and then windows with scroll bars and [TS]

  all this sorts of stuff and it wasn't [TS]

  asking you for anything there wasn't a [TS]

  prompt to we're expecting you to type [TS]

  some commands it was more like you were [TS]

  looking at this thing now that the thing [TS]

  was the desktop the desktop metaphor [TS]

  when when people are writing about the [TS]

  Macintosh early on that's what they were [TS]

  they love to talk about like yeah [TS]

  there's a little trash can in the corner [TS]

  isn't it adorable and these little icons [TS]

  look like [TS]

  it just is just like an office not [TS]

  really a desk I was like an office you [TS]

  know your office is a trash can your [TS]

  office has folders your office has [TS]

  pieces of paper you know those things [TS]

  right yeah and this is what people got [TS]

  stuck on especially in the early days [TS]

  everybody talked about the Mac like wow [TS]

  it's easy to use because it uses this [TS]

  metaphor of things that people are [TS]

  familiar with right you don't have to [TS]

  learn very much to use it right but they [TS]

  were saying like it's because because [TS]

  people already know what a trash can is [TS]

  and because we have you know that the [TS]

  graphical capabilities to draw something [TS]

  that people will recognize as trash can [TS]

  but the pixels are really small right [TS]

  and we have good artists and stuff and [TS]

  we can draw this little thing it looks [TS]

  like a folder and people know what [TS]

  folders are already so there's not [TS]

  there's nothing to learn it's familiar [TS]

  right that's all people we're talking [TS]

  about that but I think that's a [TS]

  distraction the maybe in the early days [TS]

  that was important in terms of like [TS]

  making people feel comfortable so [TS]

  they're not intimidated because they see [TS]

  symbols on the screen that that look [TS]

  like things that they are familiar with [TS]

  but the real difference was that it [TS]

  stopped being a conversation in almost [TS]

  an adversarial conversation where the [TS]

  computer says now you will type [TS]

  something here and you were saying I [TS]

  don't know what to type I'll try this [TS]

  and it would say no you have typed the [TS]

  wrong thing is something different no [TS]

  that's the wrong thing to you type that [TS]

  okay now I'll do what you told me to do [TS]

  but I'm not going to tell you really [TS]

  what that was maybe I'll tell you [TS]

  whether it was successful or not maybe [TS]

  silence means it was successful you know [TS]

  that was intimidating versus this thing [TS]

  where what it gave you is not a [TS]

  conversation but a thing now I I got off [TS]

  my first Mac when I was like 9 or 10 [TS]

  years old 1984 and giving this computer [TS]

  to me and I had Mac's before I max [TS]

  before I had computers before that [TS]

  booted to a prompt and I'd done basic [TS]

  program stuff like that so I understood [TS]

  the concept of booting to a problem do [TS]

  this thing but you gave me this other [TS]

  thing did not boot to a prompt booted to [TS]

  this this desktop and the mouse control [TS]

  the cursor it was pretty clear what you [TS]

  did with the mouse was just like a kind [TS]

  of extension of your hand you move it [TS]

  around the screen it's got one button on [TS]

  the mouse what do you do is when the [TS]

  little arrow was over something you push [TS]

  the button and you see what the heck [TS]

  happens it was kind it was kind of like [TS]

  giving someone like an ant farm or like [TS]

  a tavern puzzle or one of those 161 kids [TS]

  it was it was like a thing not not a not [TS]

  a conversation not not a challenge not [TS]

  not a game but a thing where you could [TS]

  poke the thing and you'd see how it [TS]

  react like in a you know in it farm you [TS]

  know what happens if I stick a stick in [TS]

  there what happens if I cover over this [TS]

  though anthill you know what happens if [TS]

  and upset and shake or you know a tavern [TS]

  puzzle you know what happens when I pull [TS]

  this metal thing out whatever's gonna [TS]

  you know so even as a nine-year-old who [TS]

  had never seen a GUI before you could [TS]

  pretty quickly figure out all right well [TS]

  this is only really one way to get input [TS]

  aside it wasn't touching the keyboard [TS]

  because it was no there was no props [TS]

  there was no type you know the number of [TS]

  things you can type on a keyboard is [TS]

  nearly infinite but clicking it's like [TS]

  well I can click on these little [TS]

  pictures on the screen and eventually [TS]

  you figure out if you click two times [TS]

  faster than something different you can [TS]

  click and hold down and it drags you you [TS]

  could figure out how it worked without [TS]

  having to read a manual and without [TS]

  having to type every possible string of [TS]

  characters that you can type on a [TS]

  keyboard and that in my view was was the [TS]

  big difference between the Macintosh way [TS]

  and the pre Macintosh way sort of the [TS]

  GUI in the non GUI way is not not the [TS]

  desktop metaphor and all the little [TS]

  folders and letting people know what the [TS]

  things were but the fact that you could [TS]

  figure it out by trial and error in a [TS]

  reasonable amount of time because it [TS]

  worked more like a physical yeah object [TS]

  then then like you know some sort of [TS]

  obscure game system right well there's a [TS]

  lot of value though to that to that [TS]

  metaphor yeah I mean obviously the [TS]

  metaphor was helping to be the thing to [TS]

  look like a folder you'd have some [TS]

  notion of what it might do and you could [TS]

  open it you could put stuff in it you [TS]

  know yeah I mean it was helping you [TS]

  understand what was going on if they had [TS]

  made them circle squares and Diamonds it [TS]

  would have been more difficult to [TS]

  understand but but even if they had make [TS]

  them Sir made them circle squares and [TS]

  diamonds [TS]

  kids in particular would figure it out [TS]

  because if you think about video games [TS]

  of the time everything on screen was [TS]

  like a circle or a square or daimond or [TS]

  some other simple shape very clued [TS]

  crudely drawn with big hunk and pixels [TS]

  but we didn't really care like the [TS]

  abstraction went away but you could fare [TS]

  like okay I in asteroids on this little [TS]

  arrow shaped thing all right but it's [TS]

  clear you know what other shape it is [TS]

  you could have bit its circle diamond [TS]

  whatever it's it's you that's you that's [TS]

  the thing it shoots the asteroid hits [TS]

  you and you die and no matter what shape [TS]

  any of those objects are you could [TS]

  change them all into completely [TS]

  different pictures the game still makes [TS]

  sense once you use it now the finder [TS]

  it's right in his name is that the point [TS]

  of the finder was to find things and is [TS]

  it's interesting to contrast the the way [TS]

  you find things the conversation wavers [TS]

  is the Macintosh way so knowing what [TS]

  things you were supposed to be finding [TS]

  is one thing you know the fact that they [TS]

  look like little [TS]

  pieces of paper with the corners folded [TS]

  or folders tell you if I'm looking for [TS]

  something it's probably one of those [TS]

  piece of paper things it's like my [TS]

  electronic piece of paper or and they [TS]

  might be inside of the folder something [TS]

  like that but and all the screens you to [TS]

  know that but pretend you knew it was [TS]

  you refining the conversation way it was [TS]

  like like a text adventure what you [TS]

  would do is like you get at the prompt [TS]

  that you type like look room that's the [TS]

  equivalent of like LS order or one of [TS]

  those commands and that would this is [TS]

  theme of like info context adventures [TS]

  and it would say exits or a B and C you [TS]

  know and those are like you would list [TS]

  the files and fold it in there and then [TS]

  you'd say okay fine go to a or go north [TS]

  that's that's C D right change directory [TS]

  then you type look room again and it [TS]

  would tell you what's in that room right [TS]

  if anyone's played a text adventure this [TS]

  is the process of wandering around text [TS]

  adventure you this text printed on the [TS]

  screen explain to you what's around but [TS]

  you have to prompt you to say tell me [TS]

  what's here where are my exits okay [TS]

  going to that exit look around here do [TS]

  that to that take this thing and put it [TS]

  on top of that examine this okay go here [TS]

  go there all the while you're moving [TS]

  around your current location is kind of [TS]

  kept in your head and you can ask the [TS]

  computer where am i right that's instead [TS]

  of the state you can say where am i [TS]

  current working directory will say [TS]

  you're in the north lobby there exist [TS]

  north south oh yeah I forgot about that [TS]

  and you spend a while and they're doing [TS]

  stuff or whatever and you come back and [TS]

  go to the computer so where am I tell me [TS]

  again right but if you're just working [TS]

  you're maintaining that state in your [TS]

  head like what is my current directory [TS]

  how did I get here [TS]

  what are the contents of this directory [TS]

  you know stuff like that yeah the [TS]

  Macintosh Way was more like I was trying [TS]

  to come up with a good analogy for this [TS]

  is but it was not like a text adventure [TS]

  it was more like like I said like a [TS]

  physical thing like say you were looking [TS]

  for something in a tool box like one of [TS]

  those big red tool boxes in a garage [TS]

  with 15 million drawers although it's [TS]

  more like an infinitely deep tool box [TS]

  bragging centers within drawers dr. you [TS]

  open the drawer and inside that is [TS]

  another drawer instead as another drawer [TS]

  but that's that shouldn't distract from [TS]

  the fact that that's the process of [TS]

  doing stuff that your look room [TS]

  equivalent is you open the drawer and [TS]

  there is no command to look at the room [TS]

  you just look with your eyes and you see [TS]

  what are the contents of this you know [TS]

  when I open this folder it opens this [TS]

  window what's in that window I don't ask [TS]

  the computer what's in the window the [TS]

  computer shows me and if I can't see [TS]

  something just like I can't see [TS]

  something in a drawer I like pull the [TS]

  drawer arm or move stuff out of the way [TS]

  you know you dig around you rummage [TS]

  around in there and yes you may find [TS]

  another drawer inside there except [TS]

  style and open that drawer and look [TS]

  what's in there right and so the state [TS]

  of where you are and what it was you're [TS]

  looking at was maintained visually by [TS]

  the computer you didn't have to remember [TS]

  where you were you just look and see [TS]

  like you know what what is it what is [TS]

  where am i what is in this place that I [TS]

  am it you know then there was a title [TS]

  bar the window or whatever but you would [TS]

  see this is what's in this window and [TS]

  especially in the early days there's [TS]

  like three or four icons per window you [TS]

  could see everything that was in either [TS]

  one of them and if you wanted to know [TS]

  how did I get here [TS]

  well you could see like where the drawer [TS]

  was sticking out of in other words so [TS]

  you could see by where the drawer when [TS]

  you double-click the folder would do [TS]

  that little animation and it would show [TS]

  you this is coming from there it was [TS]

  very crude animation because it was 1984 [TS]

  but it would have a series of lines [TS]

  saying you know that folds of the [TS]

  double-clicked is now opening this thing [TS]

  that's where it came from and it would [TS]

  gray out the the place where it came [TS]

  from [TS]

  and the new window would be in that [TS]

  location and that's where the stuff [TS]

  would be and you scroll around to look [TS]

  for stuff and that's the key part is the [TS]

  looking around for stuff was literally [TS]

  looking around like when you rummage [TS]

  through a like a junk drawer for [TS]

  something you are you know and if the [TS]

  drawer is messy it's going to be harder [TS]

  to find stuff you know but but you you [TS]

  can look around for stuff by you know [TS]

  scrolling is not much different than [TS]

  pulling out the drawer more moving stuff [TS]

  out of the way with your hands you can [TS]

  move stuff around and arrange things [TS]

  however you want it if you're into lock [TS]

  organization you can make a nice neat [TS]

  junk drawer where you say okay well let [TS]

  me I keep going in this drawer to get [TS]

  stuff let me just arrange stuff the way [TS]

  I want it to be so it'll to be you know [TS]

  it'll be easier to find next time maybe [TS]

  I'll put them in alphabetical order [TS]

  maybe I'll put them in little groups [TS]

  maybe I'll just arrange them arbitrarily [TS]

  maybe I'll put my favorite ones on the [TS]

  upper left and you know whatever you [TS]

  want to do but eventually what you do is [TS]

  you have a place for everything and [TS]

  everything in its place [TS]

  visually and this is this is kind of a [TS]

  bargain that people are used to kind of [TS]

  let me arrange things in places right [TS]

  and people used to this in the real [TS]

  world because this is what this is what [TS]

  keeping your house is like or your [TS]

  arranging your room or whatever it's up [TS]

  to you to more or less you know keep [TS]

  your silverware a nice neat pile so that [TS]

  you know where the forks are instead of [TS]

  putting all your so we're into a big [TS]

  jumble if you want to put all your so [TS]

  were in a big jumble fine and when you [TS]

  want to go in there looking for a fork [TS]

  you can you know sift through the stuff [TS]

  and find the fork where but that's up to [TS]

  you this is the bargain of life and this [TS]

  is this was the bargain of the Mac [TS]

  presented you with is that you could [TS]

  arrange things however you wanted and if [TS]

  you're a neat person you could be [TS]

  needing you're a sloppy person you can [TS]

  be slob [TS]

  and what it did whether you need or [TS]

  sloppy was it eventually let you build [TS]

  up a memory of where things are the same [TS]

  way kind of this is an example I use one [TS]

  of the early articles I'll bring that [TS]

  again just because I think it's it's [TS]

  still a good one the same way when you [TS]

  move into a new house which you'll be [TS]

  doing shortly hopefully I hold you first [TS]

  move in you don't really know where all [TS]

  the light switches are right so every [TS]

  time you come in home you're like is [TS]

  this on the inside especially if you [TS]

  can't move to New England from someplace [TS]

  else the England puts light switches to [TS]

  the bathrooms on the outside crazy stuff [TS]

  like that from you know really old [TS]

  houses just so you can like goof on on [TS]

  your kids and turn the light off while [TS]

  they're in there in the shower yeah I [TS]

  don't know why that is some person is a [TS]

  contractor in New England will send us [TS]

  an email and explain why the light [TS]

  switches can you do your best New [TS]

  England accent of the imitating the [TS]

  contractor coming in and what he would [TS]

  say I do not have a New England accent [TS]

  nor can I imitate one NORC and most [TS]

  people in Hollywood but I know one money [TS]

  you can do Boston but yeah so but when [TS]

  you've been there for a while eventually [TS]

  you remember all the lights which is art [TS]

  it's not like you spent some time like [TS]

  okay kids we're going to spend an hour [TS]

  tonight to memorize where all the light [TS]

  switches are you don't expend any effort [TS]

  on remembering where the light switch is [TS]

  are you just leave you lived there for a [TS]

  week [TS]

  two weeks eventually you remember old [TS]

  lights resort how the hell do you do [TS]

  that how is it that suddenly you know [TS]

  where all the light switches are and you [TS]

  expended literally zero conscious [TS]

  thought to remember where the light rays [TS]

  are well you remember where they are [TS]

  because they don't move and you know [TS]

  yeah you didn't choose you didn't even [TS]

  choose to put them there but you know [TS]

  some other person but them in crazy [TS]

  positions but eventually you remember [TS]

  where they are just you know we call it [TS]

  muscle memory or whatever we call it [TS]

  obviously your muscles don't actually [TS]

  have memory these are all phrases that [TS]

  we've come up with to describe the [TS]

  sensation of us not haven't you not use [TS]

  our people brains to remember where [TS]

  things are just happens automatically so [TS]

  that's like that's obviously not me I'm [TS]

  not thinking about it it's muscle memory [TS]

  my muscles know so when I walk into the [TS]

  room even it's like in the middle the [TS]

  night I'm getting up to take a leak my [TS]

  hand just automatically flicks the light [TS]

  switch on I didn't think about it just [TS]

  happened right so this obviously is easy [TS]

  for something stationary like light [TS]

  switch just don't move it you can have [TS]

  the same experience with things that you [TS]

  choose to put somewhere like eventually [TS]

  when you move into new house you decide [TS]

  where you're going to put the scissors [TS]

  so that every time you want the scissors [TS]

  you go and get this eventually you stop [TS]

  thinking about where the scissors are [TS]

  you just go I need to go get the [TS]

  scissors it's like a macro [TS]

  your body gets up walks through the [TS]

  house without hitting any of the walls [TS]

  correctly turns on all the lights which [TS]

  is on its way there opens the drawer [TS]

  where you know the scissors are takes [TS]

  the scissors out of the drawer maybe [TS]

  you're not even looking walks back with [TS]

  the room of the scissors and you do your [TS]

  thing right because you chose that this [TS]

  is going to be in this drawer and you [TS]

  have been living in this house for a [TS]

  while and you've you know arranged the [TS]

  furniture in a certain way and the rooms [TS]

  are connected in a certain way [TS]

  electrodes are a certain way all because [TS]

  it behaves like the physical world and [TS]

  it's not not surprising that people are [TS]

  good at doing this because people have [TS]

  been living in the physical world since [TS]

  there have been people you have to [TS]

  navigate 3d space look at things with [TS]

  your eyes and do repetitive tasks [TS]

  without thinking about them because if [TS]

  we had to think like you know like [TS]

  you're programming a robot pick up your [TS]

  foot move it forward slightly lean your [TS]

  body forward now your foot your body is [TS]

  starting to tilt catch it with your foot [TS]

  catch though I mean we don't think like [TS]

  that [TS]

  things become sort of automatic for us [TS]

  to do because we this is just how we [TS]

  evolved if we had to think consciously [TS]

  about every little thing that we did we [TS]

  would not be a successful species so the [TS]

  human mind body and brain are completely [TS]

  tuned to do things based on visual input [TS]

  with our hands physically without [TS]

  thinking about it and this is the the [TS]

  most efficient possible way that you can [TS]

  do anything really now the reason this [TS]

  ties back to the Mac is that this is [TS]

  what the Mac was like especially to [TS]

  young childhood note to it know a thing [TS]

  - it wasn't a change for anything it was [TS]

  like the first interface that I've used [TS]

  right it was like a little like a little [TS]

  toy box like a little place where you [TS]

  could rearrange things now they weren't [TS]

  real things they were flat [TS]

  two-dimensional things but they behaved [TS]

  like real things they'd be it was like a [TS]

  little diorama okay [TS]

  and you just move things around arrange [TS]

  things like looks like a little tiny [TS]

  world in there and and the great thing [TS]

  about it was that you know you could [TS]

  draw lines and erase them and you didn't [TS]

  you know it wasn't like paper they were [TS]

  raised perfectly you could arrange [TS]

  things perfectly and align them on this [TS]

  pixel grid which is difficult to do in [TS]

  real life and everything but but it was [TS]

  this little world that you could [TS]

  manipulate and the experience of the Mac [TS]

  was that you turned it on and that's [TS]

  what you saw like it wasn't like a [TS]

  program that you ran right it wasn't [TS]

  like you were running the finder program [TS]

  then you know when you turn the computer [TS]

  on on a boot did this is what you saw [TS]

  applications ran on the computer when [TS]

  you launched an application then you saw [TS]

  something else and it was like oh okay [TS]

  this is this application is interfaced [TS]

  and this has palettes or it's a game or [TS]

  you know [TS]

  it's whatever but when you quit the [TS]

  application nothing else is running you [TS]

  just saw the computer all right the [TS]

  finder is what you saw when all the [TS]

  applications were closed it was no [TS]

  closing of the finder right to close the [TS]

  finder was to turn off the computer and [TS]

  the the upshot of this is what I wrote [TS]

  way back in 2003 I still believe to this [TS]

  day is that back then the finder was the [TS]

  computer it's not like it was a program [TS]

  running on the computer the finder was [TS]

  the computer when it was it was a [TS]

  magical little world called the finder [TS]

  and that was the entire computer and [TS]

  then you could run things on top of it [TS]

  those were just like bonuses and the [TS]

  reason the Mac was more friendly and [TS]

  people liked it was not in my opinion so [TS]

  much is because of desktop metaphor but [TS]

  because that when everything was quit [TS]

  and closed you were just left with the [TS]

  computer [TS]

  you were left this little diorama thing [TS]

  that people could understand and manage [TS]

  they understood how it works because it [TS]

  worked like the real world and if you [TS]

  used it for any reasonable period of [TS]

  time it was like the light switches in [TS]

  your house you arrange things in a [TS]

  certain way you knew where things were [TS]

  or you chose not to arrange them and you [TS]

  just live with the messy junk drawer but [TS]

  at least you knew where the junk drawer [TS]

  was right and it was it was a bargain [TS]

  that people were used to and it felt [TS]

  friendly it felt less effort than [TS]

  remembering which you have to make a [TS]

  conscious effort to remember all these [TS]

  commands very few people you know make [TS]

  programmers or maybe your UNIX geeks and [TS]

  stuff have the capacity to remember all [TS]

  these commands because you do have to [TS]

  read man pages in the beginning and [TS]

  remember what that flag tell s is and [TS]

  remember what are the arguments go on on [TS]

  the Ln command and stuff like that like [TS]

  even no matter how good you are at [TS]

  memorizing computers you have to make [TS]

  some effort and some people can never [TS]

  cross that threshold you know some [TS]

  people you tried to teach simple [TS]

  command-line stuff they never never get [TS]

  over the hump they you know it is an [TS]

  effort but if you put someone in front [TS]

  of a 1984 Macintosh and you make them [TS]

  use it for a week to do simple tasks [TS]

  they will eventually figure out the very [TS]

  least to find a part of it with like [TS]

  okay well where's that file okay it's [TS]

  over here over here there it is or [TS]

  although you know put stuff on a desktop [TS]

  or whatever um and so that was that was [TS]

  the the the thing that the Mac [TS]

  represented to me that was what made it [TS]

  what they called user friendly right it [TS]

  was because it wasn't a cop an [TS]

  adversarial conversation where you [TS]

  weren't getting hints by the computer it [TS]

  was because it was more like a thing now [TS]

  what else do I have here in my last [TS]

  remaining ten minutes which time am I [TS]

  supposed to [TS]

  be interrupting you on well so all right [TS]

  we'll get through it I think all right [TS]

  let me let me do the second sponsor we [TS]

  also want to say thanks to sound studio [TS]

  for its an easy to you I love this app [TS]

  review system today's use Mac app for [TS]

  recording and editing digital audio on [TS]

  your computer you can digitize tapes [TS]

  vinyl records you can record live [TS]

  performances podcasts whatever you want [TS]

  to do and you can edit with it - you can [TS]

  do mixes crossfades tweak the levels in [TS]

  the EQ you can export in all of your [TS]

  favorite formats a if' wav mp3 AAC even [TS]

  john Syracuse's favorite the OGG Vorbis [TS]

  you can try sound studio for for free [TS]

  for 15 days fully functional by visiting [TS]

  felt-tip comm /ss for sound studio or if [TS]

  you just want to go check it out in the [TS]

  App Store you could do it they sell it [TS]

  there just search for sound studio or [TS]

  sound studio for and you'll find it love [TS]

  this app use this app constantly any [TS]

  time I need to just do string forward [TS]

  recordings I don't want to have to mess [TS]

  with logic and all that stuff that's [TS]

  overkill for most people really this is [TS]

  my go-to app highly recommended please [TS]

  go check them out use that right tone [TS]

  I do have sound studio I think I got in [TS]

  one of those bundles way back when yeah [TS]

  probably don't have the latest version [TS]

  well the easy it was that was my sound [TS]

  edit 16 replacement that's right it's a [TS]

  small app shop they've continued to [TS]

  update it it's very much [TS]

  it's a 64-bit app now it's come a long [TS]

  way a lot of new stuff in version 4 that [TS]

  I'm happy with for years I was I was [TS]

  looking for a replacement for sound data [TS]

  16 which was my old go to you just want [TS]

  that at some audio app and I couldn't [TS]

  find one sound studio was the one I came [TS]

  up with years ago I haven't updated it [TS]

  since probably because it just still [TS]

  works but I'll take a look at the newer [TS]

  version so where was that now for [TS]

  everything that I just described to work [TS]

  for that to happen for that whole [TS]

  magical moment of just like not having [TS]

  to think about it and getting used to [TS]

  where things are and everything for that [TS]

  to work things have to be recognizable [TS]

  and and recognizable without reading no [TS]

  reading reading is like the you know the [TS]

  Krugman is that his book don't make me [TS]

  think I'm thinking of the Economist was [TS]

  like Steve Krug is don't make me think [TS]

  there you go right [TS]

  when I hear that I think don't make me [TS]

  read so things have to be recognizable [TS]

  that doesn't mean making you read them [TS]

  so that's a type dir or LS and get a [TS]

  Content and read stuff or even has a [TS]

  type CWD and read that thing no reading [TS]

  don't make me read ah [TS]

  the best way we recognize things with [TS]

  our senses because again we don't we [TS]

  didn't involve evolved inside a computer [TS]

  we evolved in the world that's how we [TS]

  recognize everything with our senses all [TS]

  right so I you know the best way to [TS]

  recognize things given computer [TS]

  technology is visually it's it could be [TS]

  argued that sound might be adding sound [TS]

  to the mix would help but right now we [TS]

  don't do that I would say like smells [TS]

  another one okay we recognize things in [TS]

  the real world with sound what's with [TS]

  all our senses with taste I guess but [TS]

  we're not quite ready to go for [TS]

  smellivision [TS]

  or tasting our computer screens sound [TS]

  maybe but no one has figured out a way [TS]

  to do that's not annoying because sound [TS]

  can be kind of annoying so we were on [TS]

  the screen recognize things visually and [TS]

  that's what the original finder used and [TS]

  the way that worked is that when you [TS]

  opened a folder there would be a single [TS]

  window that was tied to that folder and [TS]

  that window would have a certain size [TS]

  shaping position that you could adjust [TS]

  because it's like a little thing right [TS]

  and because you chose how big to make it [TS]

  and where to put it and the arrangement [TS]

  of things inside it you would come to [TS]

  recognize that arrange that visual thing [TS]

  with like you'd recognize it visually [TS]

  the same way you recognize you know a [TS]

  room in your house or a street or [TS]

  anything else you recognize visually oh [TS]

  that's that window because I recognize [TS]

  it by looking at all right and any [TS]

  changes to that state rearranging the [TS]

  contents scrolling a little bit you know [TS]

  changing the size moving it that had to [TS]

  be maintained by the computer because if [TS]

  it wasn't then when you saw something on [TS]

  the screen that visual information would [TS]

  not be a reliable means of [TS]

  identification and doesn't take much of [TS]

  a deviation to make you start discarding [TS]

  that information but if you if you did [TS]

  some such weak look let me move that [TS]

  over there and then the next time you [TS]

  opened it it wasn't over there you start [TS]

  to you know consciously or not you start [TS]

  to say well I can't rely on these things [TS]

  that my eyes are seeing to help me [TS]

  identify things I have to I have to [TS]

  start reading basically like oh that [TS]

  looks like that window use last time [TS]

  well no but you know oh that looks like [TS]

  a the same arrangement of the icons well [TS]

  is it well I have it to read you know [TS]

  because if any of these changes that you [TS]

  made if you try to arrange your [TS]

  workspace if you tried to like say [TS]

  you're a painter you put the you know [TS]

  the [TS]

  by out the the big cup of water over [TS]

  there and your palette over here and you [TS]

  put the red in the corner and the black [TS]

  over there and the white over there and [TS]

  you put the little towel over this bar [TS]

  so you can get to it and you have your [TS]

  seat here and your sandwiches behind you [TS]

  up you make that nice arrangement then [TS]

  you spend the time doing that and then [TS]

  something moves and you go for the water [TS]

  thing and it's not where you left it you [TS]

  can be like okay I guess we can't get to [TS]

  that water thing by just looking for it [TS]

  I have to you know look it up by name or [TS]

  Salvi's as the analogy falls down [TS]

  because in pewter world is different but [TS]

  the point is as soon as you stop [TS]

  behaving like the real world does in [TS]

  terms of state retention the user will [TS]

  just start discarding that as valuable [TS]

  information and they have to use [TS]

  something else and look that something [TS]

  else is is usually reading that where am [TS]

  i I have to read something now and that [TS]

  is way way less efficient you know [TS]

  you'll never get to that sort of I know [TS]

  world lights which is our thing if you [TS]

  have to start reading stuff now the [TS]

  finder that I described in the beginning [TS]

  is the way the fine to work for 16 years [TS]

  1984 through 2001 or so yeah the old [TS]

  school fund your favorite finder yeah [TS]

  and and that's what I call the spatial [TS]

  finder spatial as you know as in you [TS]

  know objects in space type of thing I [TS]

  don't think I cone that term I probably [TS]

  read it somewhere way back when and [TS]

  you've just been repeating it since but [TS]

  when I say spatial finder that's what I [TS]

  mean and when other people say it I'm [TS]

  not sure what it is they mean I hope [TS]

  they mean the same thing as I do but [TS]

  they're talking about you're talking [TS]

  about the same thing if you've seen [TS]

  Jurassic Park that's not the spatial fun [TS]

  that is spatial okay what is that that [TS]

  is the thing on SGI it's actually a real [TS]

  program that is actually fly through the [TS]

  file system no you know what those were [TS]

  just like tiles that would fly a tree [TS]

  yeah yeah that's not the spatial okay [TS]

  what is it then all right so so it's [TS]

  what I just described it's it's that [TS]

  finder that works that way that is the [TS]

  windows or tied to a single folder that [TS]

  any sort of state change you make to the [TS]

  arrangement of icons or the size and [TS]

  position of the windows is retained [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  that's it simple the thing about the [TS]

  spatial finder is it's not it's not like [TS]

  fetishizing the past or some weird set [TS]

  of rules that you have to comply to like [TS]

  religion like only it's just an [TS]

  arbitrary set of rules and it's it's our [TS]

  Bible and we don't question why it's [TS]

  there and you have to comply to it [TS]

  because we're selling you it's good now [TS]

  the spatial finder is a means to an end [TS]

  the whole point of the spatial finder [TS]

  whether they intended it or not [TS]

  the reason it worked is because the way [TS]

  that it behaved allowed the visual [TS]

  spatial information to be significant [TS]

  and it engaged that incredibly powerful [TS]

  part of your brain that would recognize [TS]

  that stuff and if it work differently if [TS]

  you broke one of these rules of the [TS]

  spatial finder then that you'd stop [TS]

  leveraging that part of the brain so if [TS]

  it didn't retain visual state if you [TS]

  could have multiple windows open that [TS]

  all represented the same folder when you [TS]

  made a state change to it you'd be like [TS]

  well so am I am i changing the size of [TS]

  this folder but because I see it over [TS]

  there and it's a different thing so next [TS]

  time I open it where is it good you know [TS]

  you don't think about this consciously [TS]

  but basically what it boils down to is [TS]

  that you don't spend the time to arrange [TS]

  stuff because you don't have any [TS]

  confidence you don't even know what it [TS]

  is you're arranging you know how many [TS]

  confidence it's gonna be the same way [TS]

  the next time you use it [TS]

  so in Mac in Mac OS 10 they introduced a [TS]

  new model to the finder which is not it [TS]

  was not new in 2001 mag was thinking [TS]

  about but it was new to the Mac and that [TS]

  that's browsing and we're all familiar [TS]

  with browsing from web browser it's [TS]

  basically the window is kind of like a [TS]

  device through which you can view many [TS]

  things like my magic magic device a [TS]

  magic portal and the browser window is [TS]

  wherever it is but the contents of that [TS]

  window can be anything right and as you [TS]

  change the contents of the window the [TS]

  window itself doesn't change so you [TS]

  don't you know a particular website [TS]

  isn't in a particular position on your [TS]

  screen the browser is like a little [TS]

  device and you could view that same [TS]

  website in seven browser devices all the [TS]

  same time and that's the direction they [TS]

  wanted to go with the finder in Mac OS [TS]

  there's also another model on top of [TS]

  that which is of course search which is [TS]

  already existed but it's come become [TS]

  more important where you type stuff in [TS]

  and it just gives you a list of matches [TS]

  independent of where they are in the [TS]

  file hierarchy right now all these [TS]

  models I describe they're useful in [TS]

  various contexts my Mangum late with Mac [TS]

  OS 10 was that they ditched the first [TS]

  one I ditched that spatial model they [TS]

  introduced browsing which is good and [TS]

  has many purposes they made search a lot [TS]

  better with spotlight but they decided [TS]

  that that first one wasn't important and [TS]

  they decided that basically through [TS]

  neglect because they say well can't you [TS]

  use the Mac OS and finder like that [TS]

  can't you just make all your windows not [TS]

  have side bars and toolbars you can't [TS]

  this you can try to arrange things as [TS]

  much as you want but the finder will [TS]

  thwart you because it will spawn windows [TS]

  that are browsers [TS]

  or you'll browse to a location in a [TS]

  browser window and change the size of [TS]

  the window and not realize you're [TS]

  changing the size of the window window [TS]

  that you see in the other mode or maybe [TS]

  you think you're changing it but you're [TS]

  not or when you change the icon v1 and [TS]

  in the browser are you changing the icon [TS]

  view next time you open that window from [TS]

  the dock maybe you are maybe you are [TS]

  like I said it doesn't take much to [TS]

  throw you off to make this information [TS]

  not reliable and it's a shame that they [TS]

  ditch that model because it is the most [TS]

  efficient way that people recognize [TS]

  things I had a hard time convincing [TS]

  people of this back in the 2001 days [TS]

  because they were saying well you know I [TS]

  use the web browsers regret I use them [TS]

  all the time and I like tabs and cool [TS]

  stuff like that and I use Windows which [TS]

  doesn't exactly behave this way and I'm [TS]

  fine with it in fact I like Windows [TS]

  Explorer and I like browsing you know [TS]

  browsing is all well and good but it was [TS]

  difficult to convince people especially [TS]

  people who hadn't used the Mac for all [TS]

  that time that the the spatial way of [TS]

  doing things is good abstractly they [TS]

  just don't get it but today I can use [TS]

  iOS as an example [TS]

  springboard which is the thing you see [TS]

  when you turn on an iPhone with a little [TS]

  grid of icons right that is a spatial [TS]

  interface you pick where you want those [TS]

  little icons to go by dragging them [TS]

  around or whatever and they don't move [TS]

  after you put them there and when new [TS]

  ones appear they get tacked on to the [TS]

  end or whatever but like stuff stays [TS]

  where you put it and you have different [TS]

  screens in them and it's like left and [TS]

  right you know it's not it's a limited [TS]

  spatial world does not really you know [TS]

  they added folders but you don't really [TS]

  go into them but even within the folders [TS]

  it's like a little arrangement you know [TS]

  and it's a series of screens it's a [TS]

  spatial metaphor of like screen one [TS]

  screen - it's a big linear sideways [TS]

  one-dimensional list of screens where [TS]

  you can swipe back and forth through [TS]

  them there's no up and down folders is [TS]

  like another little portal into the [TS]

  world you can look at one level deep and [TS]

  it's another grid of icons um but that's [TS]

  things people are used to and if you put [TS]

  like you know Safari in the upper left [TS]

  hand corner it didn't stay there you [TS]

  would be pissed you can feel it when [TS]

  your thumb go that's why your thumb can [TS]

  find these things when you pull out [TS]

  you're following your iPod your thumb [TS]

  finds the thing you want because that's [TS]

  where you put it you decide that's where [TS]

  it's gonna go and you get that muscle [TS]

  memory thing now now in the 4 minutes [TS]

  remaining well are that's fine for [TS]

  Merlin moment which is where you could [TS]

  have come in any point but Hatton that's [TS]

  why I'm from Merlin moment is that well [TS]

  that's fine in 1984 and we had seven [TS]

  files but now we've got a bazillion file [TS]

  so all the spatial business is crap and [TS]

  it's pointless and we shouldn't use it [TS]

  well I would point is as an example of a [TS]

  modern incarnation of a spatial [TS]

  interface show [TS]

  it's value even though when you know the [TS]

  year 2000 in the next millennium and [TS]

  stuff but I keep coming back to the [TS]

  spatial recognition is still the most [TS]

  efficient way you have to to recognize [TS]

  stuff if you have a lot of things you [TS]

  have to fall back to less efficient [TS]

  methods yes so for example on iOS if you [TS]

  have 8 bazillion apps and you can't find [TS]

  them because you're sick of swiped into [TS]

  the screens you might resort to search [TS]

  but that's that's a resort if we said to [TS]

  launch any app you have to do search [TS]

  you'd say that that sucks give me back [TS]

  my little grid of icons right you know [TS]

  there may be better ways to do it than a [TS]

  grid of icons but it's it's you know for [TS]

  a small number of things it's good and [TS]

  we want to use that when we can and if [TS]

  you happen to install more apps in that [TS]

  you don't like rummaging around farther [TS]

  than you can resort to search but but [TS]

  it's still a fallback browsing would be [TS]

  somewhere in the middle there where you [TS]

  don't want to swipe around from screen [TS]

  to screen you want to have some sort of [TS]

  browsing interface where you can tap tap [TS]

  tap and drill your way down to something [TS]

  but you really don't have too much of a [TS]

  hierarchy and in iOS for that and the [TS]

  finder is similar I think it should be a [TS]

  hierarchy of things where and it kind of [TS]

  is a Mac OS then where for example [TS]

  applications in that goes down the [TS]

  application to use the most for regular [TS]

  people are in the dock that's that's a [TS]

  pretty much a spatial interface you put [TS]

  them where you want them in the dock [TS]

  they stay there the dock is always in [TS]

  the same place assuming you don't move [TS]

  it and that's your top level we're [TS]

  finding stuff and if you have more than [TS]

  that like most of us do you want some [TS]

  sort of second level let's go with [TS]

  search and I use Quicksilver for that [TS]

  where you know it's it's search but it's [TS]

  really really fast and it's limited to [TS]

  just applications real like ok it's not [TS]

  in the dock but I know I have this [TS]

  application let me do command space and [TS]

  type the first few letters the thing oh [TS]

  there it is it returned right but that's [TS]

  that's the second level very very few [TS]

  people I would imagine are using [TS]

  Quicksilver to launch an app that they [TS]

  have in the dock maybe if they're always [TS]

  on the keyboard and their hands aren't [TS]

  on the mouse they might find that more [TS]

  efficient and in Lion they're adding one [TS]

  more intermediate layer there where it's [TS]

  not you don't see it in the dock well [TS]

  we'll give you like springboard and Mac [TS]

  os10 [TS]

  right so it's its launch pad thing where [TS]

  they're going to give you essentially a [TS]

  spatial view of all your applications in [TS]

  a grid presumably arranged in some [TS]

  fashion I don't know if you can manually [TS]

  arrange those things or if they [TS]

  alphabetical or whatever that it remains [TS]

  to be seen whether this will be truly [TS]

  spatial but they don't want you to have [TS]

  to resort to rummaging through the file [TS]

  system and when it comes to rummaging [TS]

  through the file system which we do do [TS]

  increasingly less with [TS]

  you could use a browser to do that if [TS]

  you want I just have one window and you [TS]

  don't really know where things are or [TS]

  you could do it the pseudo spatial way [TS]

  and hope you just don't get any browser [TS]

  windows in between but the main pitch of [TS]

  the spatial finder is that spatial [TS]

  interfaces is good are good and anytime [TS]

  you do something that makes them not [TS]

  work you're probably making a mistake [TS]

  and so into the definer in particular I [TS]

  think it's a shame that they ditched the [TS]

  spatial way to operate it [TS]

  simply because for many classes of work [TS]

  that is still the most efficient method [TS]

  and there's no reason to forgo entirely [TS]

  add the other methods fine make search [TS]

  better add browsing fine but there's no [TS]

  reason to kill the spatial way and many [TS]

  reasons to keep it as evidence by I [TS]

  wasn't stuff for that that's basically [TS]

  what they started with before they even [TS]

  had search it was all staged and it [TS]

  worked buying a work where can people [TS]

  loved it and found it easy to use so how [TS]

  can I disagree with you means makes [TS]

  sense that's why I didn't want to do [TS]

  this show because it makes sense we had [TS]

  more time you would argue more maybe [TS]

  we'll come back to it so I hope not [TS]

  because I don't like this time I feel [TS]

  like you said B's I don't disagree with [TS]

  you it's fine spatial fun great I want [TS]

  to tell you about the finder where you [TS]

  fly through the file system like that I [TS]

  know you're bringing that up as a what [TS]

  is a making fun of this all spatial [TS]

  interface no one wants to fly through [TS]

  stuff you know what about that weird [TS]

  finder where things are up on the walls [TS]

  it's like a 3d thing you flip it around [TS]

  you know I'm talking about I don't but [TS]

  it looks like a room you can put stuff [TS]

  on the walls of your room oh yeah oh [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I've seen those it's [TS]

  weird yeah no but I got a rat we got to [TS]

  stop I get a stop I got a the real [TS]

  estate person wait I got literally we [TS]

  get into a car right now all right all [TS]

  right [TS]

  to be continued possibly huh we'll see [TS]

  don't send us email about it we'll just [TS]

  because we don't need more moments [TS]

  but John have a great week thanks forfor [TS]

  compressing yourself down into just 60 [TS]

  minutes I try and thanks everybody for [TS]

  listening pee sure to check out get [TS]

  harvest calm and felt-tip calm and can [TS]

  follow John it what is it siracusa si [TS]

  RAC us a on Twitter I'm Dan benjamin on [TS]

  twitter and we appreciate you being here [TS]

  today thanks everybody tuning in thanks [TS]

  John have a great Memorial Day weekend [TS]

  you too and that's it everybody will see [TS]

  y'all again next week [TS]

  you [TS]