13: The Tortoise and the Hare


  [Music] [TS]

  you are listening to hypercritical this [TS]

  is a weekly talkshow ruminating on [TS]

  exactly what is wrong in the world of [TS]

  Apple and related technologies [TS]

  businesses nothing you see is so perfect [TS]

  that it can't be complained and [TS]

  criticized by my co-host John siracusa [TS]

  I'm Dan benjamin the show is made [TS]

  possible by fresh books calm mailchimp [TS]

  calm which will tell you about in a [TS]

  little bit but this is episode number 13 [TS]

  creepy 13 are you superstitious I am NOT [TS]

  in some cultures 13 is considered lucky [TS]

  a lot of people would say it's unlike [TS]

  them should we skip should we just call [TS]

  this episode 14 and my culture 13 is the [TS]

  number epic 12 [TS]

  good enough good enough for me you sold [TS]

  me how are you how's your week been been [TS]

  good so far good we have a giant pile of [TS]

  follow-up I'm still thinking about what [TS]

  parts I'm going to trim don't trim any [TS]

  of it I say we do the whole thing all of [TS]

  it the whole show would be follow up [TS]

  then yeah maybe once and for all clear [TS]

  it out start fresh no this wouldn't [TS]

  clear it out this was just supposed to [TS]

  be one shows worth would it expanded but [TS]

  I think I'll stop about halfway through [TS]

  I want to start with stuff about Pixar [TS]

  believe it or not it was the big shock [TS]

  on last week's show yeah well it was a [TS]

  shock I was shocked [TS]

  yeah not a lot of feedback on that [TS]

  surprisingly it brought out a few of the [TS]

  people who had previously had bad [TS]

  thoughts about Pixar but didn't feel [TS]

  safe expressing them so now once they [TS]

  hear someone else say anything bad about [TS]

  Pixar they will come out of the woodwork [TS]

  and tell you what they think is wrong [TS]

  with Pixar right some of them agree but [TS]

  and some of them I didn't but there was [TS]

  one good one that stuck out to me and it [TS]

  was someone who brought up a point that [TS]

  I thought about before but hadn't tied [TS]

  it in to what I said on last week's show [TS]

  but he did in a connected all together [TS]

  this was Kieran Healy he's usually in [TS]

  the chatroom I don't know if he's there [TS]

  today he was pointing out that most [TS]

  Pixar movies have male lead characters I [TS]

  think all of them do at this point and [TS]

  there's very few female characters and [TS]

  this is something you tend not to notice [TS]

  and movies in general you know because [TS]

  certain genres always have male [TS]

  characters and Pixar does kids movies in [TS]

  her adventure movies and they always [TS]

  have male leads right and that's not a [TS]

  big deal exactly until you know he had [TS]

  his daughter say to him while watching [TS]

  the Cars movie why don't the girls get [TS]

  to go on the racetrack and you don't [TS]

  notice it until you hear something like [TS]

  that and then you know you have this [TS]

  emotional reaction where you're like you [TS]

  know what why don't the girls get to go [TS]

  on the racetrack what's what exactly and [TS]

  then you just look at all the other [TS]

  movies that Pixar does and the [TS]

  protagonist is always a male and the [TS]

  female characters are [TS]

  you know important too strong that the [TS]

  main exception is Elastigirl from The [TS]

  Incredibles I guess well she's still a [TS]

  secondary character it's about think [TS]

  it's about the dad right but now see I [TS]

  don't I don't think that Pixar any movie [TS]

  studio needs to have some sort of [TS]

  balance like you know that their lead [TS]

  characters must exactly match the [TS]

  percentages of people on the earth so [TS]

  fifty-one percent women and X percent [TS]

  this race in it that's that's ridiculous [TS]

  the Pixar really does strike me as a [TS]

  male oriented or as you would say [TS]

  orientated I would company or production [TS]

  company if you think about it name name [TS]

  that the the movies that they've made [TS]

  I'm not saying girls don't love these [TS]

  these movies too but to me they feel [TS]

  they feel like boy movies yeah so that [TS]

  was the tie-in to last week I was [TS]

  talking about how they had a sort of a [TS]

  culture of engineering creativity yeah [TS]

  and engineering cultures and engineers [TS]

  in general it tends to be like a [TS]

  male-dominated culture so Kiran was [TS]

  wondering are these two things connected [TS]

  is the sort of engineer lead culture of [TS]

  Pixar it is that causing this sort of [TS]

  male-dominated storyline phenomenon I [TS]

  don't know if the two are connected but [TS]

  it's it's an interesting to consider and [TS]

  the comparison is with Miyazaki who [TS]

  always comparing Pixar too and [TS]

  Miyazaki's movies are I don't know if [TS]

  it's majority but it seems like the vast [TS]

  majority of the protagonists are female [TS]

  that's one of the reasons I have my [TS]

  daughter watch all those movies because [TS]

  they're their movies were the lead [TS]

  character it's a female and I don't I [TS]

  started her off on these movies and she [TS]

  you know only saw movies with female [TS]

  lead characters in the beginning of her [TS]

  life just to sort of normalize her on [TS]

  the idea that yes you can do everything [TS]

  that the male characters can do there's [TS]

  no limitations based on your gender [TS]

  she's never said anything about the [TS]

  Pixar movies because she's seen them too [TS]

  but it is a stark contrast between [TS]

  rescue cultures now I have no idea why [TS]

  Miyazaki pick female leads and have no [TS]

  idea what pics are mostly picks male [TS]

  leads but the correlation is there I [TS]

  thought it was interesting because I [TS]

  mean it's to balance things out like in [TS]

  the universe that could be I mean it [TS]

  could just be coincidence it could just [TS]

  be you know that's the way [TS]

  the cookie crumbled for each of the [TS]

  stories and the other Pixar news I got [TS]

  and feedback was all the other various [TS]

  Pixar projects because I was talking [TS]

  about what Pixar should do next and [TS]

  their their culture of not letting bad [TS]

  things out the door so on that front a [TS]

  couple people pointed out and I had [TS]

  heard this long ago but it forgotten [TS]

  about it but people would remind me that [TS]

  Pixar's movie Newt as in like a little [TS]

  lizard thing was canceled last year I [TS]

  think it's the first time that I recall [TS]

  that a sort of high profile pics our [TS]

  project that people knew about outside [TS]

  the company was cancelled hmm and this [TS]

  was supposed to be a movie about a [TS]

  blue-footed Newt who was in a lab and he [TS]

  was the last one on earth but then they [TS]

  found a female in the wild and they [TS]

  bring a female from the wild into him to [TS]

  help to try to get them to mate the PR [TS]

  they showed for it had the male Newt in [TS]

  the cage and he could see from his cage [TS]

  a poster on the wall detailing the nine [TS]

  steps of the mating ritual the [TS]

  blue-footed Newt so he had been studying [TS]

  that poster you know before when the [TS]

  female comes right but there was a [TS]

  coffee machine blocking the night step [TS]

  so it wasn't sure what it is but that's [TS]

  the premise of the movie the two of them [TS]

  end up escaping from the cage and going [TS]

  out in the wild and fighting with each [TS]

  other yeah it's sort of like a romantic [TS]

  comedy with newts [TS]

  so it sounded interesting to me but that [TS]

  was canned and so when you hear that [TS]

  that's canned is that you know was it [TS]

  cancelled because it was too you know [TS]

  ambitious and risque or was a cancel [TS]

  just because it wasn't working out you [TS]

  know so you don't you don't know based [TS]

  on the fact that it was canceled whether [TS]

  this is an example Pixar not taking [TS]

  enough risks or this is an example fix [TS]

  are killing something that was just not [TS]

  working out you know but it is [TS]

  interesting that those type of things [TS]

  are happening publicly now whereas [TS]

  before you know the rewrites at Toy [TS]

  Story 2 and stuff like that happened [TS]

  internally had only heard about them [TS]

  after the fact like after the movie was [TS]

  already out and successful Pixar's [TS]

  actual next movie is called brave it [TS]

  used to be called the bear in the bow or [TS]

  the bow and the bear or something but [TS]

  now it's called brave and this one [TS]

  surprise has a female protagonist it's a [TS]

  Scottish girl who's the daughter of a [TS]

  king and she goes off on some sort of [TS]

  adventure so that's going to be their [TS]

  actual next movie they'll be interesting [TS]

  to see what that ends up like and then a [TS]

  couple of people pointing me to the [TS]

  live-action projects that I alluded to [TS]

  for the X Pixar people one of them was a [TS]

  Andrew Stanton who did a wall-e and [TS]

  stuff he's going on to do a live-action [TS]

  movie not with Pixar called John Carter [TS]

  of Mars based on a sci-fi character from [TS]

  a long ago right and it's interesting [TS]

  that first it's going to be rated pg-13 [TS]

  so it's not going to be entirely kids [TS]

  filled and second it's live-action it's [TS]

  Disney but it's not Pixar so this sort [TS]

  of hemming and hawing about well is this [TS]

  a is this a Pixar movie this is a spic [TS]

  stars first live-action movie well not [TS]

  really but it's you know as I understand [TS]

  but the Pixar people aren't working on [TS]

  it but it's in Disney but not Disney [TS]

  owns Pixar so maybe this is a an [TS]

  experiment to try to give the Pixar [TS]

  treatment to a live-action movie and if [TS]

  it works out maybe Pixar could go off in [TS]

  that direction but we'll see but I think [TS]

  it is interesting is going to be pg-13 I [TS]

  think Incredibles with just PG right not [TS]

  pg-13 I'm pretty sure was PG out I'll [TS]

  look at that but no would you say did [TS]

  you mention Ponyo we talked about last [TS]

  week yeah I mean would you say that the [TS]

  main character was female it seemed like [TS]

  that it was as much about her as it was [TS]

  about the little boy it it's tough to [TS]

  say in some of these movies like [TS]

  Princess Mononoke is another example [TS]

  where it seems that the protagonist is [TS]

  male but the title character and the [TS]

  main sort of semi antagonist are both [TS]

  females and important females at Ponyo [TS]

  saint-like Ponyo as the title character [TS]

  but she has very little dialogue and you [TS]

  open on and follow what you open up on [TS]

  you but you follow the little boys [TS]

  adventure so the little boy I feel like [TS]

  the protagonist but Ponyo is obviously [TS]

  important but she doesn't have much to [TS]

  say during the movie and then is that [TS]

  the mother and everything a female [TS]

  characters in Miyazaki movies have no [TS]

  limitations Rana and it just so happens [TS]

  to be the clear lead and many of them is [TS]

  female um so not only was the [TS]

  Incredibles PG but it was the first [TS]

  Pixar film to be PG right I remember [TS]

  that being a big deal so you know John [TS]

  Carter of Mars live-action pg-13 not [TS]

  really Pixar but a Pixar guy at the helm [TS]

  so it'll be interesting to see how that [TS]

  turns out I have one other movie thing [TS]

  but it's it's a big rant maybe I'll tack [TS]

  it on the end if we finish early but I [TS]

  doubt that will happen but the next [TS]

  thing I wanted to talk to it which isn't [TS]

  actually follow up and I'm just sticking [TS]

  stuff in here that aren't part [TS]

  the main topic but it's that Open [TS]

  Compute thing that happened this week [TS]

  did you talk about that with anybody yet [TS]

  ah [TS]

  Cristina Warren and I talked about it [TS]

  yesterday a little bit but the gist of [TS]

  it is Open Compute is Facebook's attempt [TS]

  I think this is my my gut feeling on [TS]

  this is that this is their attempt to [TS]

  sort of out Google Google by not only [TS]

  saying we have the most awesome data [TS]

  center ever but we're going to share all [TS]

  of the details about how we did this [TS]

  going to give away all the specs all [TS]

  every everything you want to know about [TS]

  making an awesome data center the way [TS]

  that Google has never really revealed [TS]

  that we're going at which episode we [TS]

  talked about that but which one was when [TS]

  I was talking about what Google's [TS]

  biggest advantages I think it was maybe [TS]

  the one about Apple online stuff but [TS]

  anyway I had said that Google's biggest [TS]

  competitive advantage was its operations [TS]

  was this data center operations and it's [TS]

  hardware and software in that regard and [TS]

  I said that they had basically like a [TS]

  ten-year head start [TS]

  yeah what I meant by that was like [TS]

  starting from the time that they did [TS]

  this not starting from now obviously so [TS]

  there's some ways into their 10 year [TS]

  head start the question is how far and [TS]

  in the past episode I said that there's [TS]

  lots of open source stuff in this area [TS]

  that's like well Google won't give us [TS]

  what we have so we'll make our own so [TS]

  there's stuff like Hadoop or the various [TS]

  no SQL databases and stuff like that [TS]

  where they're they're open source [TS]

  initiatives to try to do the stuff that [TS]

  Google has but isn't sharing um [TS]

  and the lead that they have like when I [TS]

  say they have a 10 year lead I'm kind of [TS]

  implying that the leads going to go away [TS]

  that the open source stuff will [TS]

  eventually catch up but mostly the open [TS]

  source stuff I mentioned is just on the [TS]

  software side and the hardware side is a [TS]

  big part of this so I think Facebook [TS]

  Facebook makes its intentions clear this [TS]

  is a quote right from their Open Compute [TS]

  website says by releasing Open Compute [TS]

  Project technologies is open hardware [TS]

  our goal is developed to develop servers [TS]

  and data centers following the model [TS]

  traditionally associated with open [TS]

  source software projects they're [TS]

  basically saying we are doing with [TS]

  hardware what people normally do with [TS]

  open source software and that's that's a [TS]

  clear indication that what Facebook [TS]

  feels is that they acknowledge that [TS]

  Google has had the lead in this area in [TS]

  data center operations and they think [TS]

  the only way that they can or maybe the [TS]

  way they can catch up [TS]

  fastest possibly the only way they can [TS]

  ever catch them is to reframe the game [TS]

  as everybody versus Google hmm so [TS]

  they're going to be the everybody's like [TS]

  we could try to do it on our own Google [TS]

  doing our own Google has more money than [TS]

  us they have a big head start it's gonna [TS]

  be really tough to catch them but if we [TS]

  just say everybody versus Google then [TS]

  suddenly it's more of a fair fight [TS]

  so trying to suit you know hasten the [TS]

  demise of Google's lead in this area and [TS]

  you'll know that the lead is gone like [TS]

  if you're watching the space you'll know [TS]

  the lead is gone when Google starts [TS]

  opening up its data center hardware [TS]

  stuff I don't think they would do that [TS]

  just just to have a response you don't [TS]

  think they would do that just to say [TS]

  they need to yet but like because look [TS]

  with it in the software world all these [TS]

  open-source sort of semi equivalents of [TS]

  stuff that Google does based on Google's [TS]

  white papers and their vague you know [TS]

  notions they're not coming out and say [TS]

  okay you can have our whole software [TS]

  infrastructure because you guys are [TS]

  doing open-source equivalents they're [TS]

  happy to let Yahoo and everybody else [TS]

  work on their open-source equivalents in [TS]

  the various no sequel databases and all [TS]

  that stuff and you know that Facebook [TS]

  has described blogging logging [TS]

  infrastructure all sorts of projects [TS]

  like that go on and Google says that's [TS]

  fine you guys go with that but we still [TS]

  feel like our stuff is better and in [TS]

  fact we're revising our stuff we're not [TS]

  sitting on our hands we are making the [TS]

  version - of all our internal stuff or [TS]

  whatever but no one was challenging them [TS]

  in the hardware so now facebook is with [TS]

  this initiative trying to formalize the [TS]

  software effort and then saying we're [TS]

  going to try to compete with you on fard [TS]

  we're by pulling everybody else into our [TS]

  circle say we did a little bit of [TS]

  working out everybody join in and see if [TS]

  we can't as an entire you know industry [TS]

  compete with this one company that won't [TS]

  share its goodies and I think as soon as [TS]

  you see Google dip its toe and say well [TS]

  you know we're releasing X is [TS]

  open-source so we're you know here's our [TS]

  hardware specs or whatever that's [TS]

  basically end of their lead they will be [TS]

  acknowledging that it they've at least [TS]

  decided that the open-source stuff is [TS]

  about to pass them by and they need to [TS]

  contribute now I don't know how [TS]

  successful this efforts going to be in [TS]

  that regard because the software part [TS]

  that's kind of happening already but it [TS]

  happens slowly and organically and [TS]

  hardware is harder because you can't [TS]

  just get contributors to hardware like [TS]

  you know randomly off the internet right [TS]

  this minimum you know level of entry [TS]

  that you have to the crosses how are you [TS]

  a hardware engineer do you have hardware [TS]

  to work with are you a company that does [TS]

  this you know did you ever consider [TS]

  going into an outside of the [TS]

  house doing the hardware engineer so I [TS]

  majored in computer engineering which [TS]

  doesn't have software any and is really [TS]

  electrical engineering major and we do [TS]

  go over hardware stuff but I did enough [TS]

  hardware stuff to know that I didn't [TS]

  like it [TS]

  or rather that I like software better [TS]

  not that I didn't like it but I [TS]

  definitely like software I could see you [TS]

  in there with you know a little [TS]

  soldering iron kind of you know [TS]

  hunkering over one of those little [TS]

  RadioShack things or the transistors in [TS]

  it yeah you have to do that for class [TS]

  but like the people who are building [TS]

  these Facebook things are really more [TS]

  systems integrators like their specking [TS]

  out stuff to hardware manufacturers in [TS]

  Taiwan who are you know producing [TS]

  prototypes for them and they're getting [TS]

  and I think the interesting thing about [TS]

  this joan is that there this is mostly [TS]

  custom stuff this isn't off the rack so [TS]

  yeah that's that's the big deal yes [TS]

  Google does all its custom stuff and [TS]

  they said we're going to do our custom [TS]

  stuff we're going to have a motherboard [TS]

  made for us tailored to our exact [TS]

  specifications we're going to build our [TS]

  own case you know spec out where the [TS]

  fans are going to go our own power [TS]

  supply the power supply is like half the [TS]

  project is they you know design their [TS]

  own power supply to be super efficient [TS]

  and run off AC and DC Google's power [TS]

  supplies I think have built in UBS's so [TS]

  they don't to use a big UPS in the data [TS]

  center it's all sorts of extremely [TS]

  custom stuff here and it would be better [TS]

  for Facebook to try to recoup those [TS]

  costs by saying everybody let's share [TS]

  let's all work on these designs together [TS]

  so we don't have to bear the full cost [TS]

  of developing this we would like to do [TS]

  it as a community google says we'll just [TS]

  bear the whole cost and you don't get to [TS]

  share with us so I'll definitely be [TS]

  watching that space because that will be [TS]

  I think it'll be a big indicator of [TS]

  where Google sees itself right now I [TS]

  haven't heard a thing from Google so I [TS]

  think there's a secure and what they [TS]

  have and secure and what they're going [TS]

  to do next the worst thing I could [TS]

  imagine would happen would be that [TS]

  Google would say oh yeah here you go you [TS]

  want GFS and all this cool stuff we have [TS]

  internally here's the version one of all [TS]

  those things but internally they using [TS]

  version 2 that's like super lame I don't [TS]

  think that would be an indication of [TS]

  anything except for ill-will on Google's [TS]

  part where they're saying we're not [TS]

  going to give you the good good stuff [TS]

  but if you want to use but we were using [TS]

  five years ago go nuts guys it's the [TS]

  better than you have now oh where are we [TS]

  so I got three more little follow-up [TS]

  things but I think I'm going to skip [TS]

  them and maybe we'll circle back if we [TS]

  have time at the end are you sure ah [TS]

  we're about 20 something minutes in well [TS]

  so here here are my three things and you [TS]

  can pick one of them if you want to do [TS]

  it yeah let's let's pick one yeah so one [TS]

  is on you're going to plan I'm going to [TS]

  complain about George Lucas and Star [TS]

  Wars briefly oh that's a whole show I [TS]

  know but it's a very it's a very [TS]

  specific focus that's number two number [TS]

  two is that Quick Pick app that was [TS]

  rejected from the Mac App Store this [TS]

  week did you see that story I did not [TS]

  see that story so maybe that be good was [TS]

  another complaining about a projection [TS]

  story and number three is Google [TS]

  contacts and how they're annoying and [TS]

  the options to make them less annoying [TS]

  and I want to do that one I would say I [TS]

  would say the first one or the second [TS]

  one but I uh my gut says go with the [TS]

  first one you want to hit okay I'll do [TS]

  the Star Wars one this is not your eyes [TS]

  I got a whole show about Star Wars I [TS]

  don't know how tech related this is but [TS]

  I doubt any of our listeners have ever [TS]

  seen Star Wars so this keeps coming up [TS]

  in my trial I think the thing that [TS]

  triggered this same anger and me [TS]

  recently was seeing the the blu-ray [TS]

  release of Star Wars and stuff that's [TS]

  being advertised now and it's just [TS]

  making me angry about the stuff again so [TS]

  everyone knows what the problem is with [TS]

  Star Wars a certain set of fans want the [TS]

  original versions without the special [TS]

  effects added you know they want the [TS]

  cleaned up you know removing the mat [TS]

  lines from the optical effects on the [TS]

  original fly fighter doesn't look like [TS]

  it's on a piece of black cardboard as it [TS]

  flies across that's that's deemed [TS]

  acceptable because it didn't really [TS]

  change the content of the movie but [TS]

  anything where you start changing the [TS]

  content of the MODY adding scenes adding [TS]

  new elements that weren't there people [TS]

  don't like that and Lucas as we know it [TS]

  doesn't want to release those movies now [TS]

  there was this URL that went around [TS]

  sometime last year called the secret [TS]

  history of Star Wars and it was a [TS]

  section it's actually a book now I'll [TS]

  link to the site in the show notes but [TS]

  but the section of that book was [TS]

  specifically about the original print [TS]

  itself and one of the excuses that Lucas [TS]

  and company have used at various times [TS]

  is that even if you wanted the original [TS]

  trilogy thing oh that that film doesn't [TS]

  exist anymore so all that exists is a [TS]

  special edition so tough luck and I will [TS]

  link to this thing about the film stock [TS]

  of the you know saving the Star Wars [TS]

  film and how they cut pieces out of the [TS]

  original negatives to make the special [TS]

  editions and what you would what would [TS]

  be involved in having to try to piece [TS]

  together a digital copy of the original [TS]

  Algie without the special edition [TS]

  effects in it and this thing goes [TS]

  through you know it's another excuse [TS]

  Lucas's use first he said like the [TS]

  footage doesn't exist and secondly said [TS]

  well it to make it exist we would have [TS]

  to read Italy scan and restore all these [TS]

  little bits and pieces of various film [TS]

  it would cost like 20 million dollars or [TS]

  something like that now it's obvious the [TS]

  real reason why he doesn't want these [TS]

  things he just doesn't want it he says [TS]

  this is my version of the movie I it's [TS]

  my movie I get to decide what it is [TS]

  that's it but every time he gives a [TS]

  financial excuse or an excuse about the [TS]

  non-existence of the negatives which is [TS]

  basically disproved by this this saving [TS]

  Star Wars thing from the secret history [TS]

  of Star Wars I think about the unique [TS]

  situation that Star Wars is in where a [TS]

  lot of times there's something a bunch [TS]

  of fans want like some hardcore fan base [TS]

  says I want to really want the X version [TS]

  of Y and I just want to have this thing [TS]

  or whatever and then there's the reality [TS]

  what it would take to do that well you [TS]

  know it cost 10 million dollars and if [TS]

  there's only 100 people or 100,000 or [TS]

  whatever you know you won't recoup your [TS]

  cost because it costs a lot of money to [TS]

  do this work and we simply can't afford [TS]

  to do this work for such a small subset [TS]

  of fans and this is very true about [TS]

  really small narrow interest stuff like [TS]

  maybe some particular anime thing that [TS]

  you could never justify the cost of [TS]

  doing it now Star Wars you can debate [TS]

  how many people would buy in a real [TS]

  original trilogy you know blu-ray for [TS]

  example and maybe it's like it seems [TS]

  like a lot in our circles because all of [TS]

  our friends want that but in the grand [TS]

  scheme of things it's not enough to [TS]

  recoup the cost but Star Wars is in a [TS]

  unique position because the people who [TS]

  want that original trilogy cut of the [TS]

  film have a humongous and I'm just [TS]

  supposing here but I think you'll [TS]

  probably agree with me have a humongous [TS]

  overlap with the people who have the [TS]

  expertise and access to the equipment to [TS]

  do the work for free right probably [TS]

  right of all the people in the world [TS]

  who'd want the original Star Wars [TS]

  trilogy how many of them do you think [TS]

  work in the in the film scanning special [TS]

  effects industry right who have access [TS]

  to the film scanners who are experts in [TS]

  this area who would do the work for free [TS]

  in a heartbeat [TS]

  like if Lucas went out I said of course [TS]

  if we want to restore the original [TS]

  version of Star Wars and put out a [TS]

  blu-ray but we don't want to pay a cent [TS]

  for labor to do the work right it would [TS]

  get not only would they get volunteers [TS]

  at the bhasu they will get volunteers [TS]

  who are the very best in their field at [TS]

  what they do right willing to volunteer [TS]

  their time to do this [TS]

  and I just can't even think about you [TS]

  know because people are clamoring to do [TS]

  this I bet it you know if you put out [TS]

  that call in the first day you would [TS]

  have the best possible team you could [TS]

  assemble and it's willing to work for [TS]

  free and so any money that you made off [TS]

  this at all like the whole thing for [TS]

  free Luke's wouldn't have to be involved [TS]

  at all any money you made at us at all [TS]

  all you'd have to recoup is the cost of [TS]

  the ten cents that would never happen I [TS]

  never do that but like it is it's the [TS]

  most unique situation where what else [TS]

  you gonna get this for free what else [TS]

  you gonna say it's a zero risk [TS]

  proposition George we will do all the [TS]

  work for free or we will do a better job [TS]

  on this than you the people who made the [TS]

  you know the actual Brewers because the [TS]

  people working on this will be working [TS]

  at it out of the goodness of their heart [TS]

  and they will use like all their skills [TS]

  and all their powers to quote from The [TS]

  Godfather which we should talk about it [TS]

  we'll talk we'll talk about that yeah to [TS]

  make this the best blu-ray release ever [TS]

  in the history of the universe and if [TS]

  they happen to leak a bunch of digital [TS]

  scans onto the internet during the [TS]

  process then you know oh well but I just [TS]

  get angry when I think about that I [TS]

  guess maybe someday Lucas will be gone [TS]

  and someone else will think about that [TS]

  but it just bothers me that all this is [TS]

  tied up in economics when we're in a [TS]

  situation you're weakened Alex doesn't [TS]

  have to matter at all so that was my [TS]

  Star Wars thing I don't know how it got [TS]

  triggered and how I think I was just [TS]

  thinking about movies and seeing the [TS]

  Star Wars blu-ray go by on the internet [TS]

  and people talking about it and I just [TS]

  got angry all over again about that [TS]

  that's not even today's topic and before [TS]

  we say what today's topic is John this [TS]

  is your cue to unplug your microphone [TS]

  because they're doing are like our first [TS]

  aww answer and and this is a great [TS]

  sponsor this is a I love it when I get [TS]

  to talk a lot about my personal [TS]

  experience with the sponsor and this is [TS]

  this is one of them FreshBooks comm [TS]

  we've had them on the show before and I [TS]

  was using them a little bit but I hadn't [TS]

  really made the switch from QuickBooks [TS]

  because my accountant was getting say no [TS]

  no you know QuickBooks is just easier [TS]

  it's easier for us I finally just [TS]

  I got to say I said no I'm done with I'm [TS]

  done with QuickBooks I can't hit it's [TS]

  horrible I need a way I need something [TS]

  that's more modern I need something that [TS]

  takes the headache out of invoicing be [TS]

  I hate it I hate the whole invoicing [TS]

  process item night it's not fun trying [TS]

  to keep track of have they seen the [TS]

  invoice even have they paid it where [TS]

  where is it in the process well this is [TS]

  the this is the beautiful thing about [TS]

  fresh books is that when you send an [TS]

  invoice to a customer to a client you [TS]

  know instantly if they've seen it forget [TS]

  if they've paid it yet it shows you that [TS]

  of course well I mean it's it it shows [TS]

  you they've seen they have seen the [TS]

  invoice it's great [TS]

  tons of integration you can set up [TS]

  recurring payments and and all kinds of [TS]

  stuff and it just takes the headache out [TS]

  of this custom logos everything you name [TS]

  it and so here's what they're doing for [TS]

  hypercritical listeners every week they [TS]

  are going to give away a birthday cake [TS]

  even if it's not your birthday you can [TS]

  still get this they're going to give [TS]

  away a cake to a hypercritical listener [TS]

  every week so you go to fresh books calm [TS]

  you sign up and when you sign up by the [TS]

  way that's free it doesn't cost anything [TS]

  to sign up you can even send invoices [TS]

  and stuff for free you don't you don't [TS]

  have to pay anything to trip but please [TS]

  do try it out once you get in there [TS]

  don't just sign up to get the cake trust [TS]

  me you're going to love this once you [TS]

  get in there you put in as you're [TS]

  filling up hypercritical that's where [TS]

  you heard about the show and you will be [TS]

  eligible to get one of these free K [TS]

  every week they're sending out a cake so [TS]

  go check them out fresh books calm [TS]

  you're gonna love it [TS]

  did you plug back in John are you back [TS]

  I'm back you know you mentioned you had [TS]

  ditched QuickBooks ya know every word [TS]

  reminded me of another legacy financial [TS]

  program that a lot of people are stuck [TS]

  on each tree so I've got a I use quicken [TS]

  here and I use whatever the last version [TS]

  of quicken was for Mac OS 10 before they [TS]

  went off on this weird quicken life [TS]

  financial whatever stuff but it's [TS]

  PowerPC only I think it's like quicken [TS]

  2007 or something it's an ancient [TS]

  program it's PowerPC only and I'm [TS]

  realizing as I'm playing with lion and [TS]

  everything that it's going to be a [TS]

  problem because lion doesn't seem to run [TS]

  Mac OS R PowerPC apps and I thought I [TS]

  have no PowerPC apps left but once you [TS]

  can't run them at all you realize how [TS]

  many you rely on so what the heck am I [TS]

  going to do want to upgrade the Lion am [TS]

  I just gonna keep one machine back and [TS]

  run [TS]

  working on it like there's no good [TS]

  alternative to it I wish there was I [TS]

  know there are a lot of alternatives to [TS]

  quicken but like if you're all your data [TS]

  is in quicken and you know and you want [TS]

  to keep I'd rather just keep using [TS]

  quicken because it's what we know how to [TS]

  use it works fine [TS]

  the fact that it's PowerPC doesn't [TS]

  bother me I don't want to go through the [TS]

  whole hassle of having to upgrade to [TS]

  some other program even if some program [TS]

  says that it imports quicken files and [TS]

  everything is just a hassle you know oh [TS]

  that that's that's gotta meet the press' [TS]

  that is QuickBooks for the Mac PowerPC [TS]

  or is it Intel I don't quick-quick books [TS]

  is Intel well at least the people in a [TS]

  better situation with that but yeah hero [TS]

  financial program seems like one of [TS]

  those I don't want I don't want to do it [TS]

  I don't want to do it anymore I don't [TS]

  want to have to have this this ancient [TS]

  apt of the terrible yet face that's [TS]

  what's been happening is the web [TS]

  services are taking over a lot of these [TS]

  apps that were financial although the [TS]

  wigs a lot of people out like putting [TS]

  financial information in the web but [TS]

  it's clearly the way all these type of [TS]

  apps are going you know so maybe that's [TS]

  the solution maybe I'm not they just [TS]

  they already bought mint so I can't [TS]

  really get a way to Roy from Intuit for [TS]

  my fan it says I don't know I'm [TS]

  depressed about that all right all right [TS]

  what's the topic you don't even know but [TS]

  we didn't talk about it all I added the [TS]

  30 minutes into the show let's hear the [TS]

  topic yeah so this is one you kept [TS]

  picking yes weeks and we never did this [TS]

  is this is Apple's philosophy and [TS]

  practice of UI consistency across the [TS]

  years I've been wanting this one I [TS]

  didn't think I had much to say on this [TS]

  but when I was doing notes for it I [TS]

  guess I do I don't know there's so much [TS]

  to talk about I mean how far back do you [TS]

  want to go that's the real that's how I [TS]

  always start that's why I'm not having a [TS]

  lot to say that I gotta go back there go [TS]

  back then beginning to talk about [TS]

  anything you know cuz it keep in mind [TS]

  that even though probably I'm guessing a [TS]

  lot of our listeners or Mac users they [TS]

  may not have been Mac users three years [TS]

  ago or five years ago or ten years ago [TS]

  or in 1984 like we were not have been [TS]

  alive in 1984 very true it's all feel [TS]

  old together that's all let's all join [TS]

  hands and you know sing songs about our [TS]

  misspent youth but anyway the point is [TS]

  there are a lot of people who never even [TS]

  used OS 9 let alone [TS]

  yeah you know then and they don't know [TS]

  about the hague and they don't know [TS]

  about all of this this extra stuff and [TS]

  geeks like us we obsess about this so I [TS]

  think there's some stuff that will be [TS]

  surprising even for old-timers I'm going [TS]

  to try to put a lot of these things in [TS]

  the show notes a lot of them are just [TS]

  screenshots like disembodied images that [TS]

  I googled around for because it's hard [TS]

  to find good comprehensive pictures of [TS]

  old UIs [TS]

  but I would suggest that people actually [TS]

  look at them after the show and so they [TS]

  can see what I'm talking about here so [TS]

  I'm going to go back to the beginning [TS]

  with the Mac um now the people who don't [TS]

  know the youngins the Mac really was the [TS]

  first major GUI platform that had [TS]

  widespread success there were gooeys [TS]

  before it but they weren't as successful [TS]

  as the Mac the neck sort of defined that [TS]

  the graphical user interface ah and [TS]

  along with that was this big push from [TS]

  Apple to get developers to make Mac apps [TS]

  that sounds kind of silly it's like well [TS]

  obviously you know if you make a new [TS]

  platform you want people to make apps [TS]

  what would the memo that was they wanted [TS]

  you to make an application it looked [TS]

  like it belong in the Mac they didn't [TS]

  want you to take like a das or Apple to [TS]

  program and put it in a window and say [TS]

  look I brought my program to the Mac you [TS]

  know you double-click this icon the [TS]

  program launches and inside the window [TS]

  is what you would see previously on on [TS]

  the da screen or what you would see [TS]

  previously on an Apple 2 screen that is [TS]

  the last thing Apple want they wanted [TS]

  you to make Mac applications and the [TS]

  famous example of them sort of enforcing [TS]

  this with hardware they didn't put arrow [TS]

  keys on the original Mac's keyboard [TS]

  which sounds crazy you know how can you [TS]

  have a keep over that arrow keys but [TS]

  that was their clear signal to people [TS]

  writing applications do not make no [TS]

  function keys either by the way do not [TS]

  make the dots application in a window do [TS]

  not make an Apple 2 application in a [TS]

  window there are no arrow keys you have [TS]

  to use the mouse make a Mac application [TS]

  and this was part of their push to sort [TS]

  of establish the GUI is a viable [TS]

  paradigm for computing which also sounds [TS]

  ridiculous like you know people or [TS]

  younger don't even realize that there [TS]

  was a long time before the GUI was [TS]

  anything and there was it you know you [TS]

  had to computer with a mouse attached it [TS]

  was like there must be some toy computer [TS]

  is it a fisher-price you know real men [TS]

  use the command-line interface this is [TS]

  not a real computer there's good decade [TS]

  of that after the Mac was introduced of [TS]

  dismissing it as a toy so Apple was you [TS]

  know Apple's challenge was make this [TS]

  acceptable maple people to understand [TS]

  that it's OK for a computer to [TS]

  like this and that you should make your [TS]

  applications look like this and that [TS]

  that old stuff with the command line [TS]

  that's going away and that was an [TS]

  incredibly tough sell and if you didn't [TS]

  live through it it's hard to even [TS]

  imagine that this would be an issue of [TS]

  debate because nowadays you could not [TS]

  get a regular person to sit in front of [TS]

  a command line and do anything but back [TS]

  then that was the dominant metaphor for [TS]

  interfacing with a computer you know [TS]

  that was considered and I'll just [TS]

  mention this there was a notion for many [TS]

  years that even even the youngest in our [TS]

  audience should remember that it was [TS]

  considered that that Mac's were for [TS]

  artists and designers and maybe [TS]

  musicians and pcs were like if you [TS]

  wanted to do real work you know you're [TS]

  in business you get a PC even that was a [TS]

  triumph even that was a triumph to say [TS]

  yes there was a class of people for whom [TS]

  the Mac is actually useful tool like [TS]

  just getting the artist to because [TS]

  previously was just like oh come on [TS]

  you're not gonna buy this thing it's [TS]

  like a fisher-price I mean you can't do [TS]

  a thing with it it's got these pictures [TS]

  on the screen is it for kids or [TS]

  something you know it's useless for [TS]

  every button and finally you know [TS]

  desktop publishing and stuff like that [TS]

  came in all right so fine I guess it's [TS]

  okay for those hippies yeah we had we [TS]

  had a medical study at our school that [TS]

  that was the one of the the only ones [TS]

  and it was the Makah see that we did the [TS]

  school newspaper and like the yearbook [TS]

  on and people would line up waiting to [TS]

  use this thing but but people need to [TS]

  remember that John I think that that the [TS]

  Mac was off in this own like there was a [TS]

  you needed to have a mouse because there [TS]

  were a lot of people that didn't have a [TS]

  mouse that was not weird oh yeah again [TS]

  for years and years and years pcs did [TS]

  not come with the mouse or any kind of [TS]

  pointing device they just ignored what [TS]

  the Mac was doing and then you know the [TS]

  fact that Mac started going desktop [TS]

  publishing and I still find there's some [TS]

  class of users they need to use this [TS]

  type of computer but seriously if you're [TS]

  going to liam Peter for your house [TS]

  obviously you get a PC and don't worry [TS]

  about that Mouse and gooey stuff it's [TS]

  silly and we have Windows anyway and [TS]

  it's almost the same thing right so the [TS]

  advent of Windows you know and the [TS]

  popularization of Windows was an [TS]

  admission that maybe there is something [TS]

  the scoobies thing but Windows ran from [TS]

  das and it was a whole other you know [TS]

  thing there I might a quick aside on [TS]

  Windows and das my favorite thing about [TS]

  Windows the windows and das battle this [TS]

  is this is a slight tangent here but you [TS]

  know when I was [TS]

  of all windows versus the Mac and as we [TS]

  all know Windows came to dominate but in [TS]

  the beginning it was a bunch of DOS [TS]

  people installing Windows 3.1 which was [TS]

  like the first decent version that [TS]

  operated anything like a real GUI had [TS]

  overlapping windows and mouse support [TS]

  and stuff like that and the way you [TS]

  would do it is you install Windows but [TS]

  then when you booted your computer you'd [TS]

  be at a DOS prompt and what you would do [TS]

  at the DOS prompt is type win which is [TS]

  short for Windows that was a shorter [TS]

  version they launched windows Mary and [TS]

  the sheer psychological weight of [TS]

  millions of PC users typing the word win [TS]

  there Wow has always just sat on my [TS]

  shoulders think how much did this have [TS]

  to do with Windows winning the the [TS]

  desktop battle because at that point was [TS]

  only geeks who are using any kind of [TS]

  computer and we all knew there was this [TS]

  battle hood desktop and here these users [TS]

  typing win win win win millions of every [TS]

  day win win and just the repetition had [TS]

  to hammer into their head you know a [TS]

  psychological predisposition to think [TS]

  that Windows was going to win the Mac PC [TS]

  wars that is that perhaps the [TS]

  touchy-feely 'us hippie dippie ASEC [TS]

  splen asian for why the Mac lost the war [TS]

  for the desktop that you could possibly [TS]

  imagine but it is always not sat right [TS]

  with me and I just wonder if there's [TS]

  someone inside Microsoft who decided to [TS]

  put in that little shortcut who was [TS]

  smiling as people were typing it all [TS]

  right go back back to the GUI time so [TS]

  the Mac with the first major GUI [TS]

  something that gooeys came with the [TS]

  command line things didn't really was [TS]

  that it came with like parts out of the [TS]

  box you know if you're writing a GUI app [TS]

  you don't have to draw every pixel [TS]

  yourself it came with a bunch of parts [TS]

  you want to draw a button the operating [TS]

  system had a way to draw a button for [TS]

  you if you wanted to our window the [TS]

  operating system had a way to draw a [TS]

  window for you it had scroll bars [TS]

  cursors menus little pieces from which [TS]

  you can assemble your application right [TS]

  but on top of that Apple had their [TS]

  written guidelines like here's how you [TS]

  assemble these parts to make something [TS]

  that is an appropriate Mac application [TS]

  so first of all definitely use these [TS]

  parts don't you know do a command line [TS]

  thing inside a window but second well [TS]

  when you use the parts here's how you do [TS]

  it when you have a dialog box put these [TS]

  two buttons on them the okay button goes [TS]

  over here the cancel button goes over [TS]

  there the default button you know should [TS]

  look like this make sure there always is [TS]

  a default button all these sorts of [TS]

  guidelines and they call it The Hague [TS]

  the human interface guidelines now human [TS]

  interface guidelines existed before the [TS]

  Mac but [TS]

  they were more important for the Mac [TS]

  because here were these parts that you [TS]

  were going to assemble to make an [TS]

  application you can assemble these parts [TS]

  and also it's a different way so there [TS]

  was much more stricter guys much [TS]

  stricter guidelines than you had for [TS]

  example for the Apple to wear they had [TS]

  some guidelines about you know keyboard [TS]

  commands and how input should look and [TS]

  stuff like that but it wasn't like when [TS]

  you draw this in the screen this should [TS]

  be this many pixels away from that this [TS]

  should be over here this should be [TS]

  aligned with that it was just you know [TS]

  much stricter and the guidelines that [TS]

  were there were an attempt to not only [TS]

  make Mac applications like Mac [TS]

  application so make them all look like [TS]

  each other because they were trying to [TS]

  push the benefits of the GUI which is [TS]

  not only that it's easier to use but [TS]

  that once you learn how to use one Mac [TS]

  application you can use any of them you [TS]

  know so this may be foreign and crazy [TS]

  for you moving around this little thing [TS]

  with the cord hanging from a ball in the [TS]

  bottom but once you figure out how to do [TS]

  it once the next application you use you [TS]

  won't have that learning curve again [TS]

  provided that we can get all developers [TS]

  to make their applications look the same [TS]

  way to behave the same way to have [TS]

  similar you know menu structures similar [TS]

  dialog boxes so that you would see the [TS]

  benefit of the GUI and then applicants I [TS]

  see huh GUI pretty good right now during [TS]

  this time you had people who saw the Mac [TS]

  and said wow this is awesome like it's [TS]

  clearly the way all computers are going [TS]

  to be the Mac is awesome I love the Mac [TS]

  that would have been me as a kid and [TS]

  lots of other people alright and they're [TS]

  there Apple itself had sort of a similar [TS]

  fervor to say we want the maxes to seed [TS]

  we want to establish the GUI as a [TS]

  dominant paradigm because we have the [TS]

  best GUI and therefore we will win now [TS]

  what happened during that time I think [TS]

  is sort of the the fervor to establish [TS]

  the GUI got tangled up with religious [TS]

  adherence to the hIgG because the Mac [TS]

  fans would be like we love the GUI and [TS]

  if you're writing GUI map you got you [TS]

  got to follow these guidelines and since [TS]

  we're you know geeks and otaku would be [TS]

  a better term we're just obsessive about [TS]

  this stuff you have to follow the hague [TS]

  because here's the hague the Higa's are [TS]

  you know the held it like the bible the [TS]

  hague is our bible if you want to join [TS]

  us this is what you have to do and if [TS]

  you don't follow the hague you're not [TS]

  helping the platform succeed right and [TS]

  and that that you know i think it's just [TS]

  for the people way back then who are in [TS]

  in the midst of that revolution there [TS]

  that the strongest adherence to the hIgG [TS]

  is the bible you have to do what it says [TS]

  and if you don't you are you're making a [TS]

  lesser application [TS]

  but in reality even Apple itself was [TS]

  never as rigid as these as these people [TS]

  who were the the rabid Apple fans were [TS]

  Apple did want its platform succeed and [TS]

  it did say you should use the hIgG but [TS]

  they were the G is for guideline not [TS]

  gospel all right if you look at like the [TS]

  original Mac that came out of the box in [TS]

  1984 one of which I had from day one [TS]

  Apple was not did not feel constrained [TS]

  by the human interface guidelines it did [TS]

  itself had written for the Mac because [TS]

  if you if you look the best example I [TS]

  was trying to think of an example from [TS]

  the original Mac that you look at and [TS]

  say this does not follow The Hague this [TS]

  is completely wrong not only is it wrong [TS]

  but it's a giant mess so if I had to [TS]

  think one thing I would pick the control [TS]

  panel do you remember with the original [TS]

  Macintosh control panel look like yeah I [TS]

  think I do it was it was you know a one [TS]

  screen thing and it had all the little [TS]

  icons inside of it and you'd pick the [TS]

  one that you want to double click it and [TS]

  it would it would sort of launch them as [TS]

  individual apps right no you gotta go [TS]

  way farther back right open I will put [TS]

  it in the show notes the original [TS]

  control panel that's right it was just [TS]

  one it was one winning with and you [TS]

  could pick the background with a little [TS]

  background widget and you could pick the [TS]

  the fight yeah that was good I missed [TS]

  that that was so simple it was one [TS]

  window and there is pretty much not a [TS]

  standard control anywhere and I gotta [TS]

  find a screenshot of this for the show [TS]

  no it will be in the shop I found he's [TS]

  already oh you already got it excellent [TS]

  so actually I'll send it to you now send [TS]

  it to me now I go look at it right now I [TS]

  remember that how those little [TS]

  backgrounds were so cool and it had did [TS]

  but there was a different you had to how [TS]

  did you change the sounds you have to [TS]

  get that separate what was the name of [TS]

  the app that let you put the house [TS]

  sounds on there for the ejecting the [TS]

  track that was much later but yeah there [TS]

  was kaboom and so masters of my sound [TS]

  master this is this is the original max [TS]

  at it out of the box no no contamination [TS]

  from third-party applications is what [TS]

  they're shipping with on day one and the [TS]

  control panel which is a pretty darn [TS]

  important piece of functionality because [TS]

  it's the only place you can change the [TS]

  volume of the computer change the mouse [TS]

  track and stuff like that you know it [TS]

  has no standard controls on it it's got [TS]

  this crazy little thing with a mouse [TS]

  with lines come in front it lets you [TS]

  change the mouse speed and has a zero [TS]

  and a one button what the heck to those [TS]

  mean I guess one is faster than zero for [TS]

  the keyboard key press speed it has a [TS]

  little bit I con of a turtle and then [TS]

  the number zero through four and the [TS]

  little icon of a rabbit [TS]

  slow the rabbit is fast and then it has [TS]

  like a thing you're pressing a button [TS]

  and another series of numbers these none [TS]

  of these are standard controls and [TS]

  they're nonsensical like this is the [TS]

  original you know this is the brush [TS]

  metal of its day this out of the gate [TS]

  Apple is saying we have these guidelines [TS]

  but we are going to make an important [TS]

  part of the system totally disregard [TS]

  every single one the only thing this [TS]

  thing has on it's a standard control is [TS]

  the title bar the title bar has a closed [TS]

  box on it it's a standard title bar and [TS]

  maybe you could say the volume slider is [TS]

  a standard slider control I don't think [TS]

  is so cool like that is insane and if [TS]

  Apple today came out and like Mac OS 10 [TS]

  line and I had some app UI like that [TS]

  people would flip out right so this this [TS]

  is my first example of how the adherence [TS]

  to the hague is really sort of an [TS]

  illusion of the the faithful and that [TS]

  Apple never felt constrained fine never [TS]

  never never felt constrained by now if [TS]

  we go forward through time you know to [TS]

  say did they get this out of the system [TS]

  that was there ever a golden era where [TS]

  they said okay now you know forget about [TS]

  that crazy stuff forget about the custom [TS]

  controls forget about these windows that [TS]

  make no sense but the funny icons that [TS]

  you can't figure out we're gonna [TS]

  everything's gonna be standard right [TS]

  that's that's the one yeah but I don't [TS]

  think they ever got there because in [TS]

  like I'm gonna I'm gonna fast-forward to [TS]

  system 7 system 6 was didn't change too [TS]

  much from the other ones it introduced [TS]

  color banana mineral matter but system 7 [TS]

  was the first OS with real color in it [TS]

  all right um now I'm always a fan of [TS]

  system 7 because they could have gone [TS]

  much crazier with the color in system 7 [TS]

  so some 7 was the first one written [TS]

  written from day one to support color [TS]

  and they could have made everything like [TS]

  purple and blue or like you know like [TS]

  windows basically they could have used [TS]

  garish color everywhere instead what [TS]

  they did was they took the original look [TS]

  and I just highlighted it with just a [TS]

  little bit of color around the edges [TS]

  like very subtle light color [TS]

  highlighting the edges of the existing [TS]

  black and white art do you have any [TS]

  screenshots yeah oh I'll have I need to [TS]

  see these so we can talk about you don't [TS]

  remember what system 6 looks like no I [TS]

  remember a member system 7 so I don't [TS]

  have any good system stuff in [TS]

  screenshots and notes but I will get one [TS]

  for you at the end of the show but you [TS]

  know a system 7 look like Rio I loved [TS]

  system 7 that was my that was my [TS]

  favorite Mac OS since up to now up to [TS]

  present [TS]

  not including present rather yeah I [TS]

  think I think for me leopard is on par [TS]

  with system 7 so some well Snow Leopard [TS]

  is better for me system 7 is [TS]

  tied up in the age that I was at the [TS]

  time so the original system seven is [TS]

  these operating system release I was [TS]

  most excited about on the one that I was [TS]

  most satisfied with which really has no [TS]

  foundation in the facts because system [TS]

  seven itself was a little bit buggy and [TS]

  you know there wasn't even a fonts [TS]

  folder until 7.1 and it was clearly [TS]

  shipped out early and a lot of a lot of [TS]

  things not to recommend system seven but [TS]

  because of where I was in my life at a [TS]

  time and how excited I was about it that [TS]

  that was the best the ID that our [TS]

  friends the Nerds in the chat room have [TS]

  submitted it's a very nice screen system [TS]

  yes isn't that a guidebook GUI site now [TS]

  I don't need I don't need to look at it [TS]

  cuz I assist them something has burned [TS]

  in my brain and it feels good to look at [TS]

  it alright but even in system seven [TS]

  Apple still you know they made new [TS]

  guidelines for color and everything and [TS]

  how things should look in a bunch of new [TS]

  controls but they still said yeah this [TS]

  doesn't apply to us I mean do you [TS]

  remember the CD player application [TS]

  mm-hmm right that was like the iTunes of [TS]

  its day but even worse all right so [TS]

  first of all the CD application again [TS]

  had no standard controls that are [TS]

  discerned anywhere on it every control [TS]

  was custom and only were they custom [TS]

  didn't even look like standard control [TS]

  so the buttons look like physical [TS]

  buttons right on an actual CD player and [TS]

  it looked like there was a little deck [TS]

  for stuff to go in there was lots of [TS]

  recesses and highlights and stuff like [TS]

  that I mean it's play space us in the [TS]

  chat room because people I want to take [TS]

  a look at it too but not only was it [TS]

  crazy-looking even the title bar by the [TS]

  way even the title bars notice the end [TS]

  of the clothes which it was not a [TS]

  complete custom you are but on top of [TS]

  that you could change the color of the [TS]

  thing you could pick black or like a [TS]

  hundred percent separate saturated red [TS]

  or I think other colors were yellow or [TS]

  blue or green you could change the [TS]

  entire GUI to some incredibly garish [TS]

  color and again if they came out with a [TS]

  version of iTunes and said now it comes [TS]

  in colors and you can pick from this [TS]

  popup menu and change the color of the [TS]

  whole app and by the way there's not a [TS]

  standard control anywhere to be found in [TS]

  the app people will go nuts yeah and [TS]

  this is basically the equivalent of [TS]

  iTunes it was the audio player of its [TS]

  day there was no mp3 is just playing [TS]

  audio CDs from your CD Drive which is a [TS]

  you know advanced technology and the [TS]

  rest of the OS was you know fairly [TS]

  standard but they never felt any [TS]

  compunction from just completely going [TS]

  off the map to do whatever the heck they [TS]

  wanted but no reason like why did the CD [TS]

  player look like that leaves it a better [TS]

  application [TS]

  because of that you know was there some [TS]

  reason that it had to be non-standard [TS]

  hey it's the apple of today has always [TS]

  been the end apples always been like [TS]

  that it's not a new phenomenon that you [TS]

  make a great point and I'd forgotten [TS]

  about some of these these things they [TS]

  didn't and that's true they always have [TS]

  been kind of weird here's the height of [TS]

  apples and sanity I think if you could [TS]

  say it today that they're not as bad as [TS]

  they had once been this would be the [TS]

  peak the peak was when they were comment [TS]

  doing the the Copeland project which was [TS]

  going to be the next generation Mac OS [TS]

  but it was modern and everything this [TS]

  was the original Mac OS 8 Apple [TS]

  eventually released something called Mac [TS]

  OS 8 but is not this this was their [TS]

  original project of this and they had a [TS]

  technology in there called the [TS]

  appearance manager which would let you [TS]

  change the appearance of all the [TS]

  standard controls to whatever the heck [TS]

  you want and Apple itself made a bunch [TS]

  of themes for the appearance manager and [TS]

  their themes the appearance manager were [TS]

  crazy like they were clearly just trying [TS]

  to show off what it was that they could [TS]

  do with the appearance manager I pasted [TS]

  some more URLs into the chat here so I [TS]

  don't know if people remember these but [TS]

  one of them was called gizmo and gizmo [TS]

  gizmo had made the window border into [TS]

  squiggly lines and is I don't know how [TS]

  to describe it it's obvious it's obvious [TS]

  ly something you would not want to use [TS]

  like it's just you know this is clearly [TS]

  for kids or something like that right [TS]

  that's what people would say about the [TS]

  top widgets look like you know a spike [TS]

  with a bunch of colored blocks stuck [TS]

  onto it and the borders were striped and [TS]

  the scroll bars were red right and then [TS]

  they have made one called high tech [TS]

  which was all black and dark and Blade [TS]

  Runner in all the world there are black [TS]

  that actually looks looks like what they [TS]

  had in Linux on the Enlightenment window [TS]

  yes years the high tech one does look [TS]

  like a Linux scheme slot but the key [TS]

  feature that the technology in question [TS]

  here was that they were saying we're [TS]

  going to build into the operating system [TS]

  a way for you to change what every [TS]

  single thing looks and look how far they [TS]

  had come from saying every Mac [TS]

  application has to look and behave the [TS]

  same just saying okay I think people get [TS]

  the GUI now but you know let's let you [TS]

  change anything you want right now Mac [TS]

  OS 8 Copeland did not ship instead they [TS]

  shipped a evolution of Mac OS 7 system 7 [TS]

  that they eventually renamed [TS]

  Mac OS 7.6 that they eventually renamed [TS]

  Mac OS 8 and they add a lot of these [TS]

  technologies to it so the appearance [TS]

  manager actually shipped in the real Mac [TS]

  OS 8 which was just an evolution of [TS]

  system 7 and so you could do you know [TS]

  themes and stuff for an in fact if you [TS]

  if you manage to get your hands on the [TS]

  Apple themes they would work in the [TS]

  shipping actual Mac OS 8 and you could [TS]

  run them and change your things to look [TS]

  like that there's another one they did [TS]

  called drawing board actually which [TS]

  looks classier but again crazy look like [TS]

  a drafting a drafting board type of look [TS]

  work a lot it's like someone had drawn [TS]

  your Windows on a graphing board and [TS]

  done that thing where you make the lines [TS]

  go filter that yeah farther yeah I'll [TS]

  paste that one in the chat room too now [TS]

  you miss out if you're not in the [TS]

  chatroom people keep asking how do you [TS]

  do this you get a five by five TV slash [TS]

  live or slash audio if you just just [TS]

  want audio in an html5 player without [TS]

  flash and you click the little chat [TS]

  button or if if you're a geek then you [TS]

  can launch your favorite IRC client go [TS]

  to freenode net and join room 5x5 and [TS]

  apple's efforts in these areas were not [TS]

  in a vacuum like there was a thriving [TS]

  community of third party theming things [TS]

  and that you used the appearance manager [TS]

  that Apple had built or did their own [TS]

  sort of thing with you know memory [TS]

  patching and all the great things that [TS]

  we did back in the days of classic Mac [TS]

  OS 10 [TS]

  the big one was called kaleidoscope [TS]

  where people make kaleidoscope games and [TS]

  kaleidoscope could change any part of [TS]

  the GUI so there's a huge culture [TS]

  surrounding changing the GUI to look [TS]

  like all sorts of crazy things and it's [TS]

  not just from but like I said it's not [TS]

  just some third party Apple built the [TS]

  the plumbing for this into the operating [TS]

  system and planned to build into the [TS]

  next generation operating system when [TS]

  they couldn't they just poured it to [TS]

  their regular operating system which [TS]

  continued to limp on for many years [TS]

  after that now the message about this I [TS]

  think was made clear in this book that I [TS]

  have that I think very few people have [TS]

  it was published back in 1991 called [TS]

  Todd on interface you know Todd is I [TS]

  really remember talk I don't have this [TS]

  book so this is Bruce [TS]

  Todd Mazzini I hope I'm pronouncing his [TS]

  name right he was a I don't know if he [TS]

  was head of the human interface group [TS]

  but he was influential in human [TS]

  interface in Apple he'd been an apple [TS]

  for years since the Apple 2 and he's the [TS]

  one to put together the hIgG and did all [TS]

  the user interface tests [TS]

  stuff like that so he wrote a book sort [TS]

  of outside the auspices of Apple saying [TS]

  here's what I have to say about [TS]

  interface design but he used examples [TS]

  from his Apple work all the time of the [TS]

  book so I guess it had to have some sort [TS]

  of Apple blessing or cooperation um it [TS]

  was published by addison-wesley I'll put [TS]

  try to put a link to that in the show [TS]

  notes but I think it's out of print so [TS]

  on page 157 of this book he's got a [TS]

  little diagram and a paragraph or two [TS]

  about what he calls multiplex meanings [TS]

  and he shows first he shows a bunch of [TS]

  little house icons for Hyper card and [TS]

  only gonna remember HyperCard but there [TS]

  was a concept of going home in a hyper [TS]

  card stack and he showed these seventeen [TS]

  different icons the hyper card came with [TS]

  four going home all sorts of different [TS]

  sizes of houses houses chimneys [TS]

  two-story house one-story house house [TS]

  from the side you know house from a [TS]

  different angle and he said that it's [TS]

  not too much to ask the user to [TS]

  recognize all these as being houses like [TS]

  once you figure out that house means [TS]

  home which may or may not be a hurdle to [TS]

  get over when you see the little house [TS]

  icon anywhere in a hypercard stack you [TS]

  click it and you go home and it doesn't [TS]

  matter oh well this house has its [TS]

  chimney but the last one didn't I have [TS]

  no idea what this house is going to do [TS]

  when I click it now you recognize it as [TS]

  a house and the other example he gave [TS]

  was from system 7 [TS]

  he showed six or seven different puzzle [TS]

  piece icons which in system 7 were for [TS]

  system extensions things that change the [TS]

  way the system worked most of them are [TS]

  kind of hacky but for example at a [TS]

  system extension for changing the [TS]

  appearance like kaleidoscope would be a [TS]

  partially system extension or drivers [TS]

  and stuff like that and they were puzzle [TS]

  piece icons because they were you know [TS]

  fitting together to change the way the [TS]

  system works whatever whatever metaphor [TS]

  they was using they were they were [TS]

  puzzle pieces but there are many of them [TS]

  there was just puzzle piece facing this [TS]

  way puzzle piece with a hole in the [TS]

  bottom and a tab on the top puzzle piece [TS]

  facing sideways it all sorts of [TS]

  different directions but all them [TS]

  clearly recognizable as puzzle pieces [TS]

  right and the message was that things [TS]

  don't have to look identical they just [TS]

  have to be identifiable as the things [TS]

  they're supposed to be so once you [TS]

  figure out the puzzle piece icon means [TS]

  extension you don't have to be a slave [TS]

  to only use the standard puzzle piece [TS]

  icon because if you don't people have no [TS]

  idea what it what it means and it will [TS]

  make the system worse right and he had a [TS]

  little quote at the end of this remember [TS]

  this is 1991 so this is ages ago on [TS]

  technology wise but what he said was as [TS]

  bandwidth of you as the bandwidth of use [TS]

  interfaces increases he put bandwidth in [TS]

  quotes because he's kind of just talking [TS]

  as technology increases he's kind of [TS]

  these kinds of multiplexing will become [TS]

  more and more practical so what he's [TS]

  saying is that as we can make nicer [TS]

  icons as the fidelity of on-screen [TS]

  images and the fidelity interface [TS]

  increases there'll be even more things [TS]

  that we can do that make the appearance [TS]

  different but are still leaves the items [TS]

  identifiable as what they're supposed to [TS]

  be all right so now here we are today [TS]

  with you know the Retina displays on [TS]

  iPads and millions of colors on [TS]

  everything and you know huge huge [TS]

  bandwidth in his parlance of the [TS]

  interface so we can make the appearance [TS]

  very to crazy degree but the same [TS]

  question applies now is it applied then [TS]

  what's the point why are you burying the [TS]

  appearance so what why have seven [TS]

  different puzzle pieces why have twelve [TS]

  different kinds of houses why I have 50 [TS]

  different things that do the same thing [TS]

  but look slightly different and there's [TS]

  a couple of reasons for this first [TS]

  obviously is fashion and I don't think [TS]

  you can dismiss that fashion is a valid [TS]

  reason to change the appearance of [TS]

  something fashion has changed you know [TS]

  who's to say what's the purpose of [TS]

  fashions and people's clothes you know [TS]

  long hair short hair long skirts short [TS]

  skirts tight pants loose-fitting pants [TS]

  you know stripes plaid plain things [TS]

  fashion changes and the function of [TS]

  fashion is not it doesn't do anything [TS]

  for you it's just it's as part of the [TS]

  human experience and too so why [TS]

  shouldn't fashion be part of the [TS]

  computing experience as well so if [TS]

  someone decides something year that the [TS]

  fashion of Mac OS 10 is going to be [TS]

  different than it was last year and we [TS]

  think we're moving from the 60s into the [TS]

  70s or the 80s or you know using the [TS]

  equivalent fashion errors why not right [TS]

  I think that's that is reason alone to [TS]

  say yes you can change the appearance of [TS]

  the user interface purely on the basis [TS]

  of fashion a correlator this is kind of [TS]

  mood mood gets more into objective [TS]

  measures where you can have a look of an [TS]

  interface that's frantic or sort of you [TS]

  know exciting like an example I would [TS]

  give is the Windows XP blue themed let [TS]

  me remember what that was in the chat [TS]

  room like when XP first came out you [TS]

  could put it in classic Windows 95 look [TS]

  but the sort of native [TS]

  Windows XP look it was in all the [TS]

  screenshots was really saturated blue [TS]

  yeah with a green background and it [TS]

  looked very different from the old one [TS]

  this little chunkier and dissing I'm [TS]

  wrong and that was a very different mood [TS]

  than Windows 95 which was mostly grey [TS]

  so whatever Microsoft was trying to said [TS]

  they were they were conveying a message [TS]

  with their UI this is more exciting [TS]

  Windows XP it's it's not this stayed old [TS]

  Windows 95 they used it it was all grey [TS]

  it's it's you know it's new it's shiny [TS]

  you know it's plastic fantastic whatever [TS]

  first thing I would do in a row get on [TS]

  an XP box and I still have a couple of [TS]

  them here in the studio that we use for [TS]

  different things immediately immediately [TS]

  switch it back to classic immediately [TS]

  yeah even the metrics were different [TS]

  like the windows were the window title [TS]

  bar was thicker yeah tarimov blue thing [TS]

  it wasn't any clearly was not an [TS]

  improvement nobody liked that some [TS]

  people did because I thought you're [TS]

  interesting but hey Mon so so let's [TS]

  compare this to a different mood from an [TS]

  OS vendor which is a next step next step [TS]

  was just gray as far as the eye could [TS]

  see everything was gray or black it [TS]

  looked like you know a banker suit right [TS]

  these things sounds like I'm just [TS]

  talking about fashion again but I'm not [TS]

  because there's a mood to the operating [TS]

  system that affects the people using it [TS]

  if you make something bright and shiny [TS]

  and blinking and everything that has a [TS]

  different effect on the user than if you [TS]

  make something that sort of calm or [TS]

  soothing right now in today's market for [TS]

  computers this happens on an app by app [TS]

  basis sometimes like for example games [TS]

  tend to have more frantic you eyes with [TS]

  you know the menus make noises when you [TS]

  mouse over them and things are animated [TS]

  there's a background going on there's [TS]

  music and stuff like that that's [TS]

  appropriate for a game versus the other [TS]

  end of the spectrum are like these uh [TS]

  Merlin's favorite distraction free [TS]

  writing environments where the UI just [TS]

  go away entirely and just simple calm [TS]

  screen just your words in front of you [TS]

  to help you think so this is an [TS]

  interface that's not changing based on [TS]

  fashions changing because they think [TS]

  making this thing look different will [TS]

  make the user feel different it makes [TS]

  user perform differently and the whole [TS]

  OS has that you know can do that as well [TS]

  now with the whole OS it's different [TS]

  than on app by app basis because the [TS]

  whole of us has to strike a balance they [TS]

  can't make a UI that looks like the [TS]

  interface to a pop cap game because [TS]

  people will not use that daily basis [TS]

  right but they also probably don't want [TS]

  to make an interface look [TS]

  like the old next step where just [TS]

  everything is super boring all the time [TS]

  because one of the important features of [TS]

  all these things with UI is I can [TS]

  divided Apple make that CD player look [TS]

  like that why did the control panel have [TS]

  the little turtle and the hare icons on [TS]

  it sometimes you do things this is you [TS]

  know a third thing fashion mood [TS]

  sometimes just doing for fun because hey [TS]

  let's have some fun here that when I [TS]

  remember seeing that little turtle in [TS]

  the hair and I'd figured out is like a [TS]

  10 year old oh that means faster and [TS]

  slower than rain it's fun to discover [TS]

  that it's fun to have a CD player that [TS]

  you can change to bright red because I [TS]

  always made mine red because I thought [TS]

  they look the best a lot other people [TS]

  kept there as as black you know it's [TS]

  like what color do you keep your CD play [TS]

  it's just a music player why not make it [TS]

  fun right now the limitations of all [TS]

  these changes of you know doing things [TS]

  for fashion or for mood or just for the [TS]

  heck of it is are we straying too far [TS]

  away from the users ability to figure [TS]

  out what it is can people still identify [TS]

  where the clothes boxes do they know [TS]

  that this is a button do they know that [TS]

  you can press this and we've seen [TS]

  instances where they've gone too far [TS]

  like the QuickTime 4 player remember [TS]

  that oh yeah it was one of the first [TS]

  brush metal things you had a remote [TS]

  control that was a dial like you like a [TS]

  thumb dial I got a physical device where [TS]

  use a dial that was embedded in the [TS]

  device in just a small arc of the circle [TS]

  would stick above the top knee but rub [TS]

  it with your thumb right so they put [TS]

  this in a UI a picture of a dial that [TS]

  you were looking at head on that you had [TS]

  to like scrub your mouse across to turn [TS]

  the dye it's not obvious that that's [TS]

  what you were supposed to do with that [TS]

  thing because no one had ever seen in [TS]

  control like that before and I guess you [TS]

  could kind of hear it with there was a [TS]

  dial but you weren't sure how to [TS]

  manipulate it with your mouse cursor you [TS]

  know which touch you guys is easier [TS]

  because I think if you put that in front [TS]

  of a kid as a touch you I they might [TS]

  just swipe it with the finger and figure [TS]

  it out but with a mouse we weren't [TS]

  thinking quite the same thing there so [TS]

  you can definitely go too far in that [TS]

  direction now fast forwarding to Mac OS [TS]

  10 right all the things that we just [TS]

  subscribed from system 7 and the [TS]

  original Mac OS and stuff like that [TS]

  we've seen in Mac OS 10 and I would say [TS]

  to lesser degrees so they did the brush [TS]

  metal thing but it wasn't a custom [TS]

  control you can make your own brush [TS]

  metal windows and no one really [TS]

  understood why you would make something [TS]

  brush metal did have to do with mood was [TS]

  it just fashion was there some was it [TS]

  more fun to do brush metal people made [TS]

  their own decisions about that [TS]

  but eventually Apple rained it back in [TS]

  and said okay it's clear that the [TS]

  advantage of brush metal whatever they [TS]

  may be are outweighed by the [TS]

  disadvantages of people just using it [TS]

  willy-nilly so we'll bring it back down [TS]

  so I think leopard was there when they [TS]

  unified everything that was perhaps the [TS]

  most stayed they have ever been with [TS]

  user interface elements where they [TS]

  unified all their applications to a [TS]

  single appearance and they hadn't start [TS]

  going off and weird iOS directions yet [TS]

  so it's kind of like a quiet period for [TS]

  for the UI but Mac OS 10 introduced a [TS]

  new feature to user interface something [TS]

  that people usually talk about because [TS]

  you can't see it that well in [TS]

  screenshots that Mac OS 10 this is an [TS]

  example of a togs increased bandwidth it [TS]

  might be on appearance it added [TS]

  animation so this is another [TS]

  characteristic of user interface that [TS]

  doesn't show up in screenshots but now [TS]

  we've suddenly had the technology to [TS]

  make things move and how they move would [TS]

  define how they felt to you so there [TS]

  between a picture of a cat to see a cat [TS]

  walk a cat feels different once you know [TS]

  how it moves right so once animation [TS]

  became a valid vector for innovation [TS]

  Apple threw it on top of Mac OS 10 and [TS]

  said oh for example we're gonna do a [TS]

  genie to a dock we're going to make the [TS]

  window animate in the smooth way down to [TS]

  the dock now that was whimsical right it [TS]

  was fun and it was interesting in people [TS]

  all who do nod when they first saw it [TS]

  but actually also served a purpose let [TS]

  you know where the heck to your window [TS]

  went because if you click that minimize [TS]

  widget you have no idea that when you [TS]

  minimize windows they go to the docks [TS]

  boom you you click the the window widget [TS]

  and the window disappeared you be like [TS]

  where'd my window go mm-hmm and if you [TS]

  didn't notice that a tiny white square [TS]

  it appeared in your dock you know maybe [TS]

  you wouldn't notice that and the dock [TS]

  itself animates as well it moves the [TS]

  dock slowly expands to accept the window [TS]

  going into it so the Genie thing was [TS]

  like a great example firing on all [TS]

  cylinders in terms of the UI it was [TS]

  whimsical it was fun it set a mood and [TS]

  it served an important function you [TS]

  could not do without it all right and [TS]

  with the advent of core animation in [TS]

  later versions of Mac OS 10 animations [TS]

  just everywhere now and in most cases [TS]

  animation does all those things [TS]

  continues to do all those things it [TS]

  conveys information that's important to [TS]

  the user it's fun and whimsical [TS]

  interesting and it sets the mood for the [TS]

  operating system this is a smooth place [TS]

  where things glide from place to place [TS]

  and they don't jump from one place the [TS]

  other it's not [TS]

  it's not garish it's not frantic or [TS]

  off-putting it's just it's relaxing and [TS]

  calm and casual and things glide like [TS]

  water it puts me into the flow right [TS]

  yeah this is this is an example of [TS]

  things don't have to look the same to [TS]

  behave to look exactly the same like so [TS]

  for the genie effect you can do it where [TS]

  it squishes the window down into a [TS]

  little funnel you can do the one where [TS]

  it scales [TS]

  I'm sure they had other effects like I [TS]

  don't think that used to be one that [TS]

  where it sheared it all these different [TS]

  animation effects don't confuse people [TS]

  in terms of what does it mean when the [TS]

  window scales down to the dock versus [TS]

  when it loses down there like it's being [TS]

  squeezed into a genie bottle it means [TS]

  the same thing people don't get confused [TS]

  about it at all now is some more [TS]

  examples from today that have people [TS]

  angry and freaking out when they move [TS]

  the window widgets and iTunes do you [TS]

  remember that it was like iTunes 10 yeah [TS]

  and the is it been the mini player and [TS]

  all the players in some some versions of [TS]

  some modes the window widgets and iTunes [TS]

  are stacked vertically like stoplights [TS]

  instead of horizontally like they are [TS]

  every place else now this is an example [TS]

  of where if you were to ask somebody and [TS]

  they said where's the closed widget on [TS]

  the iTunes window they would look for [TS]

  the red dot and they would find it right [TS]

  whereas the minimized waited all the [TS]

  yellow dot and they would find it it's [TS]

  clearly identifiable as the clothes [TS]

  minimize and zoom widgets they're just [TS]

  in different places right but the [TS]

  downside is that those widgets changing [TS]

  their appearance would [TS]

  their appearance would [TS]

  we've been fine they kept the appearance [TS]

  but they change the position and what [TS]

  that does is it breaks your muscle [TS]

  memories when you reach for like the [TS]

  minimize widget it's not where it used [TS]

  to be right when you reach for the zoom [TS]

  box the change from any player to the [TS]

  other player it's not where it used to [TS]

  be so you end up reaching with your [TS]

  mouse to the wrong spot briefly and then [TS]

  correcting if they move all the widgets [TS]

  there eventually your muscle man we were [TS]

  to retrain itself but if you just move [TS]

  it in one application you're never going [TS]

  to retrain your hand your hand is going [TS]

  to be retrained for all the the other [TS]

  windows that are normal and when you hit [TS]

  the iTunes window you will forever be [TS]

  going to their slightly the wrong place [TS]

  going it's like a little it's like a [TS]

  little pebble in your shoe yeah you know [TS]

  it starts off it's not a big deal but [TS]

  eventually like aw for the love of God [TS]

  put the thing back where it's supposed [TS]

  to be that's why I was so annoyed by the [TS]

  moving this thing is because what's the [TS]

  advantage did you change the appearance [TS]

  to change in the mood no is it whimsical [TS]

  and fun no all you did was put in a [TS]

  different place or the one I try to [TS]

  click on it I miss slightly and I'm [TS]

  never gonna learn it because every other [TS]

  widget is in a different place so I [TS]

  applied that hack that puts them back [TS]

  into the right place this would be an [TS]

  example of a change that not many people [TS]

  were bothered by you didn't you know you [TS]

  heard a little bit of noise from people [TS]

  here and there but people just got used [TS]

  to it but I would say this is this is an [TS]

  example the worst possible change that [TS]

  Apple can do because it had none of the [TS]

  advantages of changing the appearance or [TS]

  any of the other ways it goo is working [TS]

  and a disadvantage that just you know [TS]

  grows with time and grates on you all [TS]

  right let me stop you we're going to do [TS]

  our second sponsor break this one is [TS]

  pretty cool this is my MailChimp but [TS]

  it's it's a special thing they've built [TS]

  called chimp kit have you heard about [TS]

  this John maybe you're unplugging you [TS]

  should unplug now I did unplugging on [TS]

  back ok you heard about this chimp kit I [TS]

  have this is very cool so if one of the [TS]

  problems that you have as an iOS [TS]

  developer is getting in touch with the [TS]

  people who are actually using and [TS]

  downloading your apps you pretty much [TS]

  you can you don't know who's using and [TS]

  buying your apps Apple insulates you [TS]

  from that and that's certainly a good [TS]

  thing for the consumer but what if the [TS]

  consumer actually wants to hear about [TS]

  the stuff that you're working on how do [TS]

  you tell them well you have to send them [TS]

  out to an external website they have to [TS]

  sign up with the form whatever that's a [TS]

  mess and so this is MailChimp way of [TS]

  trying to address this issue and they've [TS]

  created this thing called chip kit and [TS]

  basically it's a drop-in I mean you can [TS]

  customize it style [TS]

  it anyway you want but it's a drop-in [TS]

  component that you put right into your [TS]

  app all the code is there it's all open [TS]

  sourced and what it does is it allows [TS]

  you to keep in touch with your users by [TS]

  providing it with a simple signup form [TS]

  so that they can get your newsletter and [TS]

  MailChimp also lets you have 2,000 [TS]

  subscribers for free so so not only is [TS]

  the chimp kit free but you can have [TS]

  2,000 subscribers for free and integrate [TS]

  this into your app so that that way [TS]

  people can just with a couple taps [TS]

  they're signed up there getting your [TS]

  newsletter they're hearing what other [TS]

  cool apps you're building you can get [TS]

  directly in touch with them so if you're [TS]

  building an iOS app you've got to use [TS]

  this you've just got to put it in you [TS]

  can find out more about it by going to [TS]

  MailChimp calm slash chimp kit I want to [TS]

  see this in every iOS app now because [TS]

  there's a lot of times yeah how do you [TS]

  find out that Angry Birds Rio came out [TS]

  if you forget to go to the site every [TS]

  day you wouldn't know it's all I'm [TS]

  saying I love the fact that they prefix [TS]

  everything with chimp like back in the [TS]

  old days every Mac application had Mac [TS]

  Mac right Mac Paint Mac you draw Mac [TS]

  this and now it's chimp chimp this [TS]

  that's right yeah exactly everything is [TS]

  it's about is to anything valid prefix [TS]

  for any kind of product if your company [TS]

  name is MailChimp yeah all right so the [TS]

  last little bit I've got on the UI thing [TS]

  is the most recent example is the the [TS]

  iCal in Lion which can we can we talk [TS]

  about this yeah cuz it leaked all over I [TS]

  just pasted a URL into the chat room [TS]

  it's a ARS technica article that shows [TS]

  the very top what I Cal looks like in [TS]

  the second Developer Preview of I know I [TS]

  haven't installed that yet what are you [TS]

  running that on II rebooting into it [TS]

  what are you doing I read into it I have [TS]

  another drive dedicated just for her [TS]

  lion I had more machines i wouldnt have [TS]

  to do that but yeah so people who aren't [TS]

  looking at the screenshot right now the [TS]

  iCal in Lion Developer Preview to the [TS]

  top of the window where it's normally [TS]

  like the title bar on the toolbar that [TS]

  whole thing is made to look like a [TS]

  leather and underneath the toolbar [TS]

  there's a big thick row what looks like [TS]

  a row be white stitching going [TS]

  it's the stents what holds the paper [TS]

  into the leather binding right and then [TS]

  the paper portion like [TS]

  where the calendar is it looks like a [TS]

  tear-off that calendar we got torn off a [TS]

  few pages beforehand there's a little [TS]

  scrim of paper that didn't get torn off [TS]

  all the way right all right so the word [TS]

  for this I should have put this in my [TS]

  notes but is it someone else will say [TS]

  does it skeuomorphic something like that [TS]

  the word for making a interface look [TS]

  like a physical thing that they really [TS]

  has no reason to correspond with so you [TS]

  know it this let's make it look like a [TS]

  physical calendar let's make the user [TS]

  interface look like a physical calendar [TS]

  even though it is not a physical [TS]

  calendar and has no reason to be bound [TS]

  by the same things now here's we're [TS]

  going to say about the crazy iCal [TS]

  weather whether it actually ships in the [TS]

  final version the operating system or [TS]

  not so first let's look at what they did [TS]

  did they move anything around not really [TS]

  the window widgets are in the same place [TS]

  there are buttons that are the same [TS]

  there's a tab control which is the same [TS]

  as the standard tab controls search [TS]

  boxes in the same place same size and [TS]

  shape so this is not going to mess with [TS]

  you in terms of I don't know where the [TS]

  controls are where's the search box [TS]

  where is the clothes widget how do I [TS]

  change view everything is exactly where [TS]

  you would expect it in the same size you [TS]

  would expect it they didn't make the [TS]

  target smaller they didn't make the the [TS]

  things bigger so they're taking up more [TS]

  room so there are no problems there no [TS]

  is it whimsical and fun well that really [TS]

  depends on your point of view I would [TS]

  definitely say it's whimsical yes you [TS]

  know what whether or not it's fun I [TS]

  don't know it what it comes down to I [TS]

  think is the reason people are screaming [TS]

  about iCal is that if you think it's [TS]

  ugly then you don't like it all right so [TS]

  it's not a functional problem and it's [TS]

  not even that there are spoil sports and [TS]

  don't want interfaces to be fun because [TS]

  there are plenty of Apple interfaces [TS]

  that are fun where people think it's [TS]

  appropriate or interesting but if you [TS]

  think if you think it's ugly or if you [TS]

  think I Cal is a serious application and [TS]

  it should not be this whimsical and [TS]

  interesting those are two reasons why [TS]

  you might not like this and it's tough [TS]

  for Apple to make judgments on that [TS]

  because Apple sort of the one that [TS]

  dictates the the mood of the application [TS]

  they say we want we want calendaring to [TS]

  be fun so we're going to make our [TS]

  application you know more fun and [TS]

  interesting because we think that's what [TS]

  people want an apple probably has some [TS]

  support in that area but they say look [TS]

  what we did on the iPad [TS]

  all our apps on the iPad or so [TS]

  of fun and whimsical and sometimes look [TS]

  like physical applications and hey [TS]

  people seem to love those so why don't [TS]

  we do the same thing on the Mac No maybe [TS]

  it's a different user base maybe they [TS]

  misjudged the way most people will react [TS]

  to this or maybe they'll just stick to [TS]

  their guns ignore the the the cries for [TS]

  you know against this look and just ship [TS]

  it and say you know it's not the end of [TS]

  the world people got used to it the [TS]

  first time you show it new Mac user this [TS]

  thing will say oh wow look at that and [TS]

  then from that point on whenever they [TS]

  see the weird application with a title [TS]

  bar looks like the outside of a football [TS]

  let's say oh that's iCal maybe that's [TS]

  what they're going to do is define a [TS]

  brand for this and you know from this [TS]

  point on this is way would be the way [TS]

  that I Cal looks or maybe they'll change [TS]

  them on another major version but in the [TS]

  end of the day I don't think this change [TS]

  is any more radical than any of Apple's [TS]

  own official appearance schemes than any [TS]

  kaleidoscope scheme then the original [TS]

  control panel on the original Mac from [TS]

  day one it's not any worse than any [TS]

  other things I've done in fact I think [TS]

  it's better in many respects in it at [TS]

  the very least they're not breaking a UI [TS]

  that works they're not making the [TS]

  control so far away from what they [TS]

  normally look like the people don't [TS]

  understand what they do [TS]

  they've just simply chosen a fashion [TS]

  that people may or may not agree with [TS]

  now there is if there is a checkbox in [TS]

  there that said that you could revert [TS]

  back just by checking a box and switch [TS]

  to non leather-bound version of the [TS]

  calendar would you I don't use iCal so I [TS]

  have no opinion one way or the other I'm [TS]

  think I probably would because I think [TS]

  it's ugly right and that's a subjective [TS]

  you think based on fashion I just simply [TS]

  think it's ugly and off-putting [TS]

  now people as people will ask John what [TS]

  do you use instead of iCal [TS]

  eyes Google Calendar because I can share [TS]

  the calendars with all the rest of the [TS]

  family and we can update each other's [TS]

  calendars and you can you can use iCal [TS]

  to talk to a Google Calendar with I know [TS]

  I think I actually do have iCal set up [TS]

  to sync up my Google Calendar but I [TS]

  simply never launched it ok maybe when I [TS]

  get my own iPad I will start using my [TS]

  caching right I check out busy Cal yeah [TS]

  I've heard good things about those [TS]

  things I'm not sure about using not a [TS]

  big calendaring guy the only thing I'm [TS]

  using my calendar for it to keep up with [TS]

  like family events so [TS]

  when we have to take up the kids or you [TS]

  know when we have appointments or things [TS]

  stuff like that what I don't what I [TS]

  don't like the only thing I don't like [TS]

  about I I agree that is kind of ugly but [TS]

  I feel like the interface might grow on [TS]

  me a little bit I just don't like the [TS]

  little the little shim a paper that's [TS]

  left I don't like like that really bugs [TS]

  me seeing a little torn off remnants it [TS]

  does this because I like you know I what [TS]

  I like about Mac os10 is it's clean it's [TS]

  nice it's still it has a bit of [TS]

  personality to it without being [TS]

  over-the-top and then you look at this [TS]

  and you're like why leave a little rip [TS]

  piece of pay I just don't like that [TS]

  because I in real life if I had that [TS]

  little rip piece of paper I'd go get a [TS]

  little you know safety pin or pencil [TS]

  eraser and remove that I don't like that [TS]

  I don't like I don't like notebooks [TS]

  where you tear stuff off if the [TS]

  perforation isn't really good that's one [TS]

  of the reasons why I really like these [TS]

  like the field notes calendar the field [TS]

  notes calendar is great because it just [TS]

  has those two staples and when you rip [TS]

  off the the month calendar there's [TS]

  nothing left you don't have that binding [TS]

  up that just bugs me you get buildup on [TS]

  the staples too eventually [TS]

  no no because these staples are pretty [TS]

  firm and they actually stand out in a [TS]

  way they're very strong rigid staples [TS]

  that they used so you actually have [TS]

  space there and there's nothing we get [TS]

  stuck under there so you know there's a [TS]

  big overlap between people who have [TS]

  vague sort of OCD tendencies and people [TS]

  who are heavily into computers because [TS]

  computers are sort of that one place in [TS]

  the world where you can make things just [TS]

  super fancy it's not it's not a physical [TS]

  world so you can you can align things [TS]

  perfectly for example if you're into [TS]

  like aligning pixels or whatever right [TS]

  you can erase things completely but you [TS]

  can't do on real paper and so people who [TS]

  are drawn to that because they get upset [TS]

  in real life by things that are [TS]

  physically imperfect were drawn to the [TS]

  computers at a young age and now are the [TS]

  most enthusiastic computer users so when [TS]

  you give them an interface that brings [TS]

  the things they didn't like about the [TS]

  physical world into the they're formerly [TS]

  clean place yeah they've got upset too [TS]

  I don't think that's a valid reason for [TS]

  Apple not to do this because the vast [TS]

  majority people are not inclined like [TS]

  that and others think it's cute and [TS]

  never give it a second thought after [TS]

  after that right all right so I think [TS]

  that is not a reason for them to say [TS]

  well you know we are we are violating [TS]

  this perfect space that previously was a [TS]

  place where we these limitations [TS]

  apply if if the entire world were like [TS]

  you and I then yes they would they would [TS]

  have to get rid of it but our world is [TS]

  not like you and I so I think a lot of [TS]

  people would think III really listening [TS]

  to the show will agree that yeah but [TS]

  people just a regular regular person or [TS]

  a regular human is gonna look at [TS]

  distance no that's cool looks is like a [TS]

  calendar man this is like calendar yeah [TS]

  or not notice it at all which is the the [TS]

  case there would be most common and for [TS]

  example if I was to put this thing in [TS]

  front of my parents they would I would [TS]

  take I would have to ask them like you [TS]

  see anything what do you think about [TS]

  this he's anything different first they [TS]

  wouldn't even recognize that the window [TS]

  title bar is different right like they [TS]

  would just think I'll you know it [TS]

  wouldn't occur to them that there is a [TS]

  standard window title bar and this one [TS]

  is not standard in a second if you try [TS]

  to get to see those little pieces of [TS]

  paper forget it like and when you did [TS]

  pointed out that they like oh so what am [TS]

  I supposed to be seeing here yeah looks [TS]

  like baby paper whatever like so here's [TS]

  something now in in the past when Apple [TS]

  did for the most part when they came out [TS]

  with different styles of window chrome [TS]

  like brushed metal brushed aluminum uh [TS]

  you you could use that as a developer [TS]

  you could say I want a brushed metal [TS]

  look for my app you know you could make [TS]

  an app that used brush metal and you you [TS]

  would be you would be defamed by your [TS]

  user group but I mean you could you [TS]

  could do that do you do you think that [TS]

  these unique styles are going to be I'm [TS]

  not I haven't looked at the the lion SDK [TS]

  at all do you know if these are going to [TS]

  be available if you heard any discussion [TS]

  of this like if I wanted to make an app [TS]

  could I grab the leather binding and use [TS]

  that it's looking I think brush metal is [TS]

  an aberration like I said all the [TS]

  previous cases where they made custom UI [TS]

  is like the cd-player thing or that you [TS]

  know any other application that look [TS]

  different that was not available to [TS]

  third-party developers brush metal was [TS]

  one of the first times you know in the [TS]

  Mac os10 era they got completely got rid [TS]

  of theming right but they experimented [TS]

  with all sorts of new UI is like that [TS]

  drawer member drawers popping out of the [TS]

  ends and sheets and it was the first [TS]

  time they'd gone back to the drawing [TS]

  board and said are there some new parts [TS]

  that we can put it in our parts bin and [TS]

  one of those parts was a window that [TS]

  looks different and that was a change [TS]

  because in the past there had not been [TS]

  such radical different looks in the [TS]

  standard sort of tool box for building [TS]

  things and I think they decided [TS]

  that experiment was not successful and [TS]

  then even though Apple thought they knew [TS]

  when using brush metal was appropriate [TS]

  if you put it in the tool box it gets [TS]

  used far and wide and in ways that Apple [TS]

  didn't think it was appropriate so I [TS]

  think they are back to keeping the [TS]

  toolbox pared down and most definitely [TS]

  not providing you with a way to make the [TS]

  top of your window leather not providing [TS]

  you with a way to make it would like in [TS]

  GarageBand I'm not regiments they like [TS]

  that but apples Applications photo booth [TS]

  you know even things like iMovie you [TS]

  know they will do custom controls that [TS]

  they feel are appropriate or even custom [TS]

  windows entirely they feel are [TS]

  appropriate for their applications but [TS]

  they will not provide third-party [TS]

  libraries for other people to do that [TS]

  you want to do it for your app feel free [TS]

  to make your own custom control but if [TS]

  they make it as easy as a checkbox then [TS]

  every single you know a $0.99 shareware [TS]

  thing or whatever in the Mac App Store [TS]

  is going to have leather window and it [TS]

  would just be a plague of leather [TS]

  windows and in places where it's totally [TS]

  not appropriate so I don't know whether [TS]

  that's part of the standard UI but I'm [TS]

  going to say 99.9 repeating percent [TS]

  chance that that is not a standard [TS]

  control that people can use nor will it [TS]

  ever be I think that's a reasonable [TS]

  decision okay so one last point in this [TS]

  so Gruber has this talk that he gave a [TS]

  while back I don't know if he still [TS]

  gives it about the hIgG is dead mm-hmm I [TS]

  think it was said one of the early c4c [TS]

  gave it talked originally ah [TS]

  and despite I I don't know if you just [TS]

  hear the title you think that that talk [TS]

  agrees with what I just talked about or [TS]

  disagrees with it but either way I think [TS]

  it's just a question of looking at the [TS]

  same issue from two different sides the [TS]

  first thing I'm going to say is that the [TS]

  egg is not dead in the sense that it's [TS]

  gone yeah I will put this in the show [TS]

  notes you can link to the Mac os10 human [TS]

  interface guidelines they're on Apple's [TS]

  website you can look at them and you can [TS]

  read them in there every bit as fussy as [TS]

  they have ever been this is how big [TS]

  button should be this is how far apart [TS]

  there should be down to the pixel this [TS]

  is how you should align things these are [TS]

  the labels you should put on button name [TS]

  right so the type of dialogues you [TS]

  should have and this is the image you [TS]

  should have in the corner of everything [TS]

  with this these are the kind of windows [TS]

  that should have minimize what it's [TS]

  active and inactive and close it is [TS]

  every bit as details it used to be and [TS]

  if anything it is more detailed oh but [TS]

  what what the big is dead is talking [TS]

  about is basically the idea which I [TS]

  don't think was ever a real thing but [TS]

  the idea in people's heads [TS]

  that there was a time when the human [TS]

  interface guidelines were gospel and you [TS]

  had to follow them and that Apple itself [TS]

  religiously adhered to them and now we [TS]

  were in the bad the bad times when Apple [TS]

  has gone crazy that is completely false [TS]

  there was never a time like that Apple [TS]

  has always been completely willing to do [TS]

  whatever the heck it wants with its you [TS]

  eyes and try any possible thing and [TS]

  during that time it was also still [TS]

  couraging people not do as I say not as [TS]

  I do make your UI standard but we're [TS]

  going to experiment and that has always [TS]

  been the case with Apple and it is to [TS]

  this day so I don't think there is a [TS]

  time in the past this golden era of UI [TS]

  consistency and if anything the recent [TS]

  unification in leopard was one of the [TS]

  comest periods in in the end the and the [TS]

  Mac UI that has ever existed so I would [TS]

  definitely would not have gone with the [TS]

  hIgG as dead as title because it seems [TS]

  to lend credence to the idea that there [TS]

  was a time when the egg was more [TS]

  important than it is now I think the [TS]

  entire history of Apple has shown that [TS]

  they've always behaved the same way in [TS]

  this regard and if anything the wildest [TS]

  possible period was that brief period [TS]

  when they were considering doing the [TS]

  appearance manager but they bailed at [TS]

  that at the last minute anyway they left [TS]

  the software in there that you could use [TS]

  to to theme with third-party themes and [TS]

  I never actually shipped their own [TS]

  themes they just sort of leaked out of [TS]

  Apple but they never really committed to [TS]

  that so I would say Digg is alive and [TS]

  well and behaves exactly as it always [TS]

  behaved and Apple is behaving the way it [TS]

  is always behaved and users as always [TS]

  are behaving the way they always behave [TS]

  making a big fuss over small changes and [TS]

  forgetting about things that have [TS]

  happened in the past all that said the [TS]

  new iCal is still ugly and I hope they [TS]

  change it and that we you know and [TS]

  that's something else that you know that [TS]

  there's still a lot of time they could I [TS]

  doubt they will I think this is clearly [TS]

  the direction that they're going for all [TS]

  their apps yeah do be I was thinking [TS]

  about the previous ugly app I really [TS]

  hate it I think this was in leopard 2 [TS]

  the way they changed the mail you I [TS]

  remember that with those sort of laws [TS]

  and she blew laws and shaped buttons and [TS]

  not because you know not because it was [TS]

  bad UI but because I thought it was ugly [TS]

  just plain coming out I thought these [TS]

  these are ugly but they're still there [TS]

  like how they look they could change [TS]

  them a little bit they're not the blue [TS]

  capsules that they used to know they're [TS]

  not blue but they're they're still the [TS]

  same sort of strange yeah so but that's [TS]

  it's it's our onic that the most noise [TS]

  you hear on the internet is about the [TS]

  that people find ugly that there's no [TS]

  actual problem with the UI in terms of [TS]

  understandability or functionality but [TS]

  just because it's ugly and it grates on [TS]

  people well that says a lot though about [TS]

  the current state of user interface [TS]

  development is that pretty much all of [TS]

  these things are relatively useable they [TS]

  are providing a consistent interface and [TS]

  and now it's really down to two things [TS]

  like that but what I don't like is that [TS]

  you're for these things are forced upon [TS]

  you and it's not like they're a third [TS]

  party app where you can look at it and [TS]

  say oh I'm not going to get that app I'm [TS]

  not going to buy it and you can sort of [TS]

  punish the developer for straying too [TS]

  far from the norm by not buying their [TS]

  app and create change and affect change [TS]

  in that way it's like this way of course [TS]

  I want all the new things that lion has [TS]

  to offer and now I've got to use this [TS]

  crappy looking calendar app but I don't [TS]

  have any say in it [TS]

  see we should have done the Quick Pick [TS]

  Mac App Store rejection thing because [TS]

  that would have been a point on that is [TS]

  that you know it's all well and good but [TS]

  when there are no alternatives to the [TS]

  application then people are forced to [TS]

  use you're forced to use it you're [TS]

  forced to support it and and then this [TS]

  is the one this is the one thing and you [TS]

  touched on this but I'll just kind of [TS]

  reiterate it the more Apple does this [TS]

  the more it encourages developers to do [TS]

  it the more it oh it says this is okay [TS]

  right I'd say I don't [TS]

  maybe maybe developers are encouraged by [TS]

  that but but again from from day one [TS]

  developers could have looked at what [TS]

  Apple did in the control bound side well [TS]

  they feel no compunction about making [TS]

  completely custom UI so I my word [TS]

  processor but I think that the real the [TS]

  real Gateway is when you provide them a [TS]

  checkbox interface builder to make your [TS]

  window brush metal then the floodgates [TS]

  open yes yes yes you're right you're [TS]

  right but at the same time there are a [TS]

  lot of developers out there who are [TS]

  gonna say ah the regular Mac OS [TS]

  interface that's boring now they're [TS]

  doing this other cool stuff and there's [TS]

  all these iOS apps out there I'm gonna [TS]

  I'm gonna do my own thing now and I'm [TS]

  you know it just I feel like the [TS]

  proliferation of this is gonna this dis [TS]

  encourage I feel like Apple's [TS]

  encouraging it by doing this that's what [TS]

  I mean I think it's been around forever [TS]

  though because the thing is there's a [TS]

  high bar to doing a custom UI like this [TS]

  you have to have artists on staff or be [TS]

  an artist yourself it's not like you can [TS]

  say I'm going to draw my own leather [TS]

  pattern it will look terrible and no [TS]

  matter how [TS]

  bad you know and how little taste you [TS]

  have you'll recognize that it looks [TS]

  terrible you will say Apple this [TS]

  something looks like nice and leather I [TS]

  scribbled in Photoshop for five minutes [TS]

  and this looks horrible right and the [TS]

  market will decide that for you because [TS]

  Mac applications are supposed to look [TS]

  nice but there's been a long long [TS]

  history especially in Mac os10 Linde [TS]

  quote-unquote bandwidth of the UI has [TS]

  been so high of making completely custom [TS]

  UI that look awesome like think of [TS]

  something like delicious library where [TS]

  the entire UI is basically you know a [TS]

  drawing of a book okay show but they [TS]

  were so cool and so innovative and so [TS]

  good that Apple actually had to hire [TS]

  their guys away but that's how good they [TS]

  were that's when else once Apple [TS]

  basically wants they say we would love [TS]

  it if you had artists that were ours and [TS]

  tout as talented as our artists are or [TS]

  more talented then you made your apps [TS]

  look awesome that's what we want but [TS]

  they're not going to come out and say [TS]

  you should make a custom UI for your app [TS]

  but WABC they're going to say use [TS]

  standard controls do not use custom [TS]

  controls make your things that and what [TS]

  they're trying to say is look if if [TS]

  you're going to listen to me when I say [TS]

  use standard controls what you hear is [TS]

  always use standard controls that means [TS]

  you realize you do not have the ability [TS]

  to make good looking controls and if you [TS]

  do have the ability to make good looking [TS]

  custom controls I know you're going to [TS]

  ignore me anyway so the message that [TS]

  they have to say is use standard [TS]

  controls because the subtext is trust me [TS]

  you cannot make apps as awesome as we as [TS]

  we make them you are not an artist your [TS]

  developer do not attempt what we are [TS]

  doing here we have an entire staff of [TS]

  people dedicated to doing this stuff if [TS]

  you try to do it you will fail use [TS]

  standard controls and the people who [TS]

  won't fail who really do have artists on [TS]

  staff aren't offended by this message [TS]

  they understand who Apple is talking to [TS]

  when they say that they don't go back [TS]

  and say well I was going to make an [TS]

  awesome looking you know delicious [TS]

  library interface with with bookshelves [TS]

  and stuff but they told me not to no [TS]

  they're going to make it with whether [TS]

  you tell them not to or not or not uh [TS]

  you know and the people with the skill [TS]

  to do it do it and they come out head [TS]

  and shoulders above everybody else and I [TS]

  think this is the way Apple wants it in [TS]

  the way Apple has always wanted they're [TS]

  not going to tried you for making custom [TS]

  controls like they give you Apple Design [TS]

  Awards I think a lot of these [TS]

  applications that want Apple Design [TS]

  Awards these are applications that [TS]

  violate the hIgG ten ways to Sunday but [TS]

  if you if you can pull it off if you can [TS]

  make your app look awesome [TS]

  Apple says great thumbs up here's an [TS]

  award we're giving you an award for [TS]

  violating our guidelines right they very [TS]

  rarely do they give you an award for [TS]

  making an application that exactly [TS]

  complies with [TS]

  and interface guidelines they want you [TS]

  to go above and beyond what they don't [TS]

  want you to do is try to go above and [TS]

  beyond when you don't have the skills to [TS]

  do it so that's why their message is [TS]

  always no custom controls do not use [TS]

  custom controls at a really really good [TS]

  reason trust us you'll make more work [TS]

  for yourself you make your app uglier [TS]

  uglier when we make a new version of the [TS]

  operating system your custom controls [TS]

  are going to break [TS]

  you're not going to inherit new [TS]

  behaviors it's going to be tons of work [TS]

  for you to keep your app updated and we [TS]

  don't like that so use custom controls [TS]

  and wink-wink nudge-nudge the you guys [TS]

  out there who have SuperDuper skills we [TS]

  know what you're going to do what you do [TS]

  anyway and we'll give you an award for [TS]

  it later okay I'll have to say on that's [TS]

  it just that yeah just that okay good [TS]

  what do we skip over we skipped over the [TS]

  the App Store rejection I'll save that [TS]

  for later [TS]

  yeah you gotta say where email contacts [TS]

  yeah we're done yeah we're done this a [TS]

  good week this is a good week I let [TS]

  people love it when you go on a rant [TS]

  like that love it I do too [TS]

  how many those I have left in me were [TS]

  running out of topics on the restaurant [TS]

  I'm gonna start adding topics when you [TS]

  run out yeah and we can always talk [TS]

  about movies I don't know how people [TS]

  feel about that no well I let's say [TS]

  how's it for feedback but well here's [TS]

  what we'll do we will end a show here [TS]

  and then we'll keep talking and we'll [TS]

  make an after dark out of it so people [TS]

  who are super fans want to hear this [TS]

  next part of the conversation they can [TS]

  go to five by five TV slash after dark [TS]

  where they get all the special [TS]

  behind-the-scenes stuff but that's it so [TS]

  listen thanks to FreshBooks comm please [TS]

  go check these guys out there I'm so [TS]

  excited cuz it's changed my life and [TS]

  also check out MailChimp com they have a [TS]

  great service even if you don't make iOS [TS]

  apps but if you do go to MailChimp comm [TS]

  slash chimp kit and John siracusa can be [TS]

  followed [TS]

  on twitter at siracusa there's no Z in [TS]

  Syracuse and that's him on Twitter I'm [TS]

  Dan Benjamin on Twitter thanks for [TS]

  tuning in thanks for being a part of the [TS]

  show we'll be back next week [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  you [TS]