12: Nothing Is So Perfect


  this is hypercritical episode number 12 [TS]

  this is a weekly talkshow ruminating on [TS]

  exactly what is wrong in the world of [TS]

  Apple and related technologies and [TS]

  businesses my co-host John siracusa of [TS]

  Ars Technica and elsewhere insists that [TS]

  nothing is so perfect that he can't [TS]

  complain about it I tend to agree that [TS]

  that is true [TS]

  i'm dan benjamin and john we'd like to [TS]

  say thanks to to two sponsors very [TS]

  quickly will tell you more about them [TS]

  later but the first one is sound studio [TS]

  for from felt-tip software and the [TS]

  second is worldview from campaign [TS]

  monitor we'll get to those during the [TS]

  show hi John hi Dan how are you just [TS]

  dandy [TS]

  great been a long week a lot of lot has [TS]

  happened yeah I think I've forgotten it [TS]

  all already but we don't need to talk [TS]

  about anything that's good [TS]

  when we need to talk about if people at [TS]

  last we show a very very speculative [TS]

  about what the third company is but [TS]

  before that there's follow-up there's a [TS]

  lot of follow-up there always is there's [TS]

  a good two three hours of follow-up well [TS]

  I'll try to do it fast as usual you [TS]

  ready yeah I'm ready I'm told I'm so [TS]

  ready alright so last week we were [TS]

  talking about criticism online and off [TS]

  more or less and I thought last week's [TS]

  show was kind of a microcosm of itself [TS]

  sort of in an inception kind of way [TS]

  because I started the show talking about [TS]

  how I had written this you know this [TS]

  blog post about criticism and how I [TS]

  tweeted about it and said something that [TS]

  I thought was silly and then some people [TS]

  took it seriously right and that was [TS]

  kind of like an example with this like a [TS]

  gap between like the intention of the [TS]

  person creating something and the [TS]

  audience's interpretation so that was [TS]

  just a tweet right well and last week's [TS]

  show we had one person who took ah you [TS]

  know interpreted what we said in a [TS]

  different way that then we definitely [TS]

  intended to be so I thought we'd address [TS]

  that now okay let's do it yeah so this [TS]

  was a I threw out a reference to an old [TS]

  SNL sketch about sexual harassment [TS]

  somewhere in the middle of last week's [TS]

  fun as yeah and see pop-culture [TS]

  references like that are kind of risky [TS]

  B's not ever [TS]

  room we'll get them right so not [TS]

  everyone has seen all the same TV shows [TS]

  as you and this was an old SNL clip if I [TS]

  remember it wasn't in 2005 or something [TS]

  it wasn't like a recent thing but either [TS]

  way usually when a pop culture reference [TS]

  doesn't land because people don't know [TS]

  what you're talking about that's not a [TS]

  big deal but in this case if you didn't [TS]

  catch the reference it sounded like the [TS]

  point I was making was exactly the [TS]

  opposite of the point down this way so [TS]

  in the show notes today I have a link to [TS]

  the actual Saturday Night Live sketch [TS]

  that I was referencing it was a joke [TS]

  corporate seminar film about sexual [TS]

  harassment um and one reader thought we [TS]

  were endorsing sexual harassment right [TS]

  work wait what are you endorsing it [TS]

  though no that is exactly the opposite [TS]

  and what I was doing it it's also the [TS]

  opposite of what this ayat live sketch [TS]

  is doing so if you go and look at the [TS]

  YouTube video alright so even now so now [TS]

  I've given you the context on the side [TS]

  on a live video and you're saying all [TS]

  clearly he endorses this video so if you [TS]

  go to the video and you look at the [TS]

  YouTube description a guy in the [TS]

  description also does not agree with me [TS]

  he's he's taking away from this this [TS]

  video that he has posted the exact [TS]

  opposite point that I took away from it [TS]

  so to further clarify lest you go to [TS]

  this video and read the description and [TS]

  say oh my god he agrees with the guy who [TS]

  posted this video I do not agree with [TS]

  the guy who posted that video he said [TS]

  what is that I think I would quote from [TS]

  in here yeah I'm not gonna quote him but [TS]

  he basically said that what makes [TS]

  something sexual harassment is the [TS]

  response of the person has to and again [TS]

  I think that is the exact opposite of [TS]

  the point of the sketch that the writers [TS]

  intended and certainly what I intended [TS]

  the point of the sketch as I see it is [TS]

  that the reception of your actions does [TS]

  not determine whether something is [TS]

  sexual harassment or not it's the [TS]

  actions themselves and I thought this [TS]

  was pretty clear because like at the end [TS]

  of the sketch they have the handsome guy [TS]

  Tom Brady was hosting the show he's the [TS]

  handsome guy walk up to Homans desk [TS]

  wearing his underwear and the woman's [TS]

  like oh hi how you doing she takes it [TS]

  just fine because he's handsome [TS]

  that's humors way of trying to tell you [TS]

  that that's actually not okay [TS]

  walking up to your desk in your [TS]

  underwear is not okay even if you're [TS]

  handsome and the fact that some people [TS]

  think it's okay that's the joke the joke [TS]

  is on them [TS]

  so now that I've sucked every ounce of [TS]

  humor out of that sketch by trying well [TS]

  why go watch it anyway go watch it is [TS]

  funny it's an oldie it's a goodie that's [TS]

  what I was referring to I'm not pro [TS]

  sexual harassment all right we got that [TS]

  out of the way I think I think so yeah I [TS]

  would get emails about how bad the skit [TS]

  actually was I thought it was anyway uh [TS]

  related to that is something I forgot to [TS]

  bring up and there's a lot of things [TS]

  that I forgot to bring up in the last [TS]

  show is that I listen to all of my own [TS]

  shows I know a lot of people over on [TS]

  podcast don't listen themselves there [TS]

  can't list themselves or find it painful [TS]

  you know but I listen to every single [TS]

  one the shows that I'm on and yes it is [TS]

  very painful to do that especially like [TS]

  in the beginning when you're not used to [TS]

  hearing your own voice and everything [TS]

  but eventually you get over that and [TS]

  just deal with the Kermit factor and [TS]

  just listen but the reason I'm listening [TS]

  is the same reason I talked about in [TS]

  last show that I want to hear what I'm [TS]

  doing wrong so that I can fix it and it [TS]

  doesn't mean that I'm fixing it every [TS]

  single time but it means that I'm gonna [TS]

  how do I know how I'm doing if I don't [TS]

  listen to myself you know what I mean [TS]

  and so in the course of listening to [TS]

  last week's show I saw that I misspoke [TS]

  like 50 different times like I called [TS]

  something Amazon App Engine when App [TS]

  Engine and obviously belongs to Google I [TS]

  say PowerBook all the time a lot of [TS]

  people do this but I mean you know these [TS]

  are also these are nitpicky things that [TS]

  aren't really worth right but this but [TS]

  well I think it's worthwhile because I [TS]

  want to listen oh you know I'm not gonna [TS]

  go into all my podcasting flaws but the [TS]

  only way you're gonna get better is to [TS]

  it's gonna have it you are right it's [TS]

  listen to what what it's like to listen [TS]

  to yourself and I do listen to a lot of [TS]

  podcast so I feel like I have a baseline [TS]

  level of you know what I'm supposed to [TS]

  be doing what I'm not supposed to be [TS]

  doing right and I guess if you really if [TS]

  it really bothers you to listen to [TS]

  yourself then then you know it's better [TS]

  for your not to but I feel like it's a [TS]

  big part of being able to improve it's [TS]

  it's like writing something and refusing [TS]

  to read what you write because you find [TS]

  it too embarrassing that's the time line [TS]

  you should read it now to learn from [TS]

  your mistakes all right um there's [TS]

  another whole thread for the criticism [TS]

  thing that I didn't get into I'll just [TS]

  try to go through it briefly and skip [TS]

  the rest of the follow up okay because I [TS]

  don't want to talk about microwave ovens [TS]

  you know I actually do oh you do all [TS]

  right well I'll try to do this fast [TS]

  enough so we can talk about microwave uh [TS]

  so [TS]

  one of the things about blogging online [TS]

  criticism that I wanted to talk about [TS]

  was the inclination of the author like [TS]

  given the same event what what is a [TS]

  somebody's reaction to it what are they [TS]

  what are they interested in writing [TS]

  about on their blog for example and your [TS]

  inclination your angle on stories will [TS]

  give you can give you a reputation like [TS]

  for example Gruber is the most obvious [TS]

  one where a lot of people label him as a [TS]

  fanboy mmm you've talked about out of [TS]

  this on the show with him it because his [TS]

  inclination is when something happens [TS]

  it's related to the things that he [TS]

  writes about he will look for he will [TS]

  criticize the people who are criticizing [TS]

  Apple basically so if you think [TS]

  something Apple is doing is good he will [TS]

  find the people who think that that same [TS]

  thing is bad and explain why they're [TS]

  wrong right I would say that's very [TS]

  accurate and there yet the Mac elope is [TS]

  like that to a Mac world the the [TS]

  ever-elusive Mac elope who has a column [TS]

  it is 100% like find the most ridiculous [TS]

  idiotic person who said the stupidest [TS]

  thing and just tear them apart Gruber's [TS]

  is less humor based more serious like [TS]

  he'll he'll talk about this you know [TS]

  he'll address the serious criticisms for [TS]

  people who are you know more versed in [TS]

  the field occasionally he'll pick on the [TS]

  idiots too um now I come up come at it [TS]

  from the other way most of the time if [TS]

  Apple does something I'm looking for [TS]

  what is it about what they did that's [TS]

  bad and then I will complain about that [TS]

  right now you would think this would [TS]

  this would line min bian Gruber up to be [TS]

  constantly at odds because if every time [TS]

  something happens I'm going to say [TS]

  what's wrong with what Apple did and [TS]

  he's going to criticize the people who [TS]

  are saying that Apple did something [TS]

  wrong but in reality we tend not to [TS]

  cross paths like that and it's it's know [TS]

  why is then it's mostly because if you [TS]

  were to talk to both of us about most [TS]

  issues I think we would probably agree [TS]

  it's just that he's concentrating on one [TS]

  side I'm concentrating on the other in [TS]

  most cases when he does link to me he'll [TS]

  agree with my criticism or maybe have [TS]

  one or two things to say with it say [TS]

  about it but what the end result for the [TS]

  reader is like oh Gruber's a fanboy and [TS]

  then I'm a hater right so everything you [TS]

  know you hate Apple you must be a PC you [TS]

  know I used to get that way back on a [TS]

  date I don't get it that much now I [TS]

  think people have figured out that I'm [TS]

  actually a Mac user but big time when I [TS]

  first started writing is that you've [TS]

  clearly [TS]

  never used in Agra for in your life and [TS]

  you must love ms-dos or and you know but [TS]

  in reality just two sides of the same [TS]

  coin you know where I'm you know what we [TS]

  choose to focus on doesn't mean that if [TS]

  you took those two pieces together like [TS]

  the things that he says that the apples [TS]

  doing good mostly I agree with and the [TS]

  things that I'm saying that apples doing [TS]

  is bad mostly he's agree he agrees but [TS]

  this is just where we decide to focus [TS]

  you know what I mean [TS]

  it's a you're almost saying it's it's [TS]

  sort of the same issues but you focus on [TS]

  them in a different way [TS]

  right and isn't you know he's picking on [TS]

  the criticisms that are stupid and I'm [TS]

  hoping that I'm given criticisms that [TS]

  are not stupid and the things that he's [TS]

  saying that are really good I'm not you [TS]

  know I'm not counteracting them I'm not [TS]

  I'm not saying that you know that he's [TS]

  wrong about that I just am not as [TS]

  interested in talking about what's good [TS]

  now occasionally if you look like my Mac [TS]

  os10 reviews I will go off and you know [TS]

  a couple paragraphs or page or two about [TS]

  something that's really good I do tend [TS]

  to do that it's just not my inclination [TS]

  you know it's not my inclination to say [TS]

  you know I guess I'm more into negative [TS]

  reinforcement than positive [TS]

  reinforcement and again this doesn't [TS]

  really apply in to people but the [TS]

  corporations into analysis of tech [TS]

  industry I think both approaches are [TS]

  perfectly valid and I think it's unfair [TS]

  that either one of us gets the labels [TS]

  that we tend to get that he gets labeled [TS]

  as a fanboy that I get labeled as a [TS]

  hater who just you know complains about [TS]

  everything right but it really just has [TS]

  to do with the part of the issue that we [TS]

  find interesting I like I read all the [TS]

  same things about people criticizing [TS]

  Apple and being stupid about it I'm just [TS]

  not interested as interested in [TS]

  explaining why they're stupid because [TS]

  for me it's kind of like well if you [TS]

  can't see that it's stupid yourself [TS]

  probably nothing I'm going to say is [TS]

  going to convince you when it's not [TS]

  worth my time to try to do so but other [TS]

  people make different value judgments [TS]

  about that and or they you know they [TS]

  find humor value in it or they can they [TS]

  can be funny while explaining why [TS]

  somebody is wrong right you know that's [TS]

  just different ways to look at the world [TS]

  I guess but but again I think it's [TS]

  ridiculous that people get put into [TS]

  little corners and given labels based on [TS]

  the aspect of issues they decide to look [TS]

  at and not based on like what their [TS]

  total opinion is like if you were to if [TS]

  someone who labels me a hater was to sit [TS]

  down and talk to me for five minutes [TS]

  that would realize that I love Apple and [TS]

  gives them [TS]

  so dollars and have wonderful things to [TS]

  say about lots of things that they do [TS]

  it's just not what I choose to write [TS]

  about most of the time right ah [TS]

  microwaves yes we'll skip over the rest [TS]

  of this and go right to microwaves what [TS]

  do you want to talk about about [TS]

  microwaves I have a lot of snippets here [TS]

  from feedback we've gotten well yeah I [TS]

  mean we got all that we got a lot of [TS]

  feedback surprisingly I think we got [TS]

  more feedback that in in in one way or [TS]

  another focus is on microwave so we [TS]

  might get it we might get something [TS]

  where the someone write in and say Oh [TS]

  John you're wrong about this but I agree [TS]

  with you about this and then at the end [TS]

  PS I live in X country in Europe and we [TS]

  have everybody I know has a microwave I [TS]

  have a microwave I've had one since I [TS]

  was in grad school and then for every [TS]

  one of those we get we'll get another [TS]

  one that says not only don't we have [TS]

  microwaves we don't have central heating [TS]

  in there that's a fair representation of [TS]

  it right yeah a lot of people were [TS]

  trying to gather up stats which I found [TS]

  useful but I don't really care that much [TS]

  about who has microwaves or don't you [TS]

  know especially since these stats are [TS]

  from different years and not really [TS]

  comparable to each other and stuff like [TS]

  that so it some of the information we [TS]

  got was basically the u.s. really does [TS]

  have a lot of microwaves per capita [TS]

  right and other other similar [TS]

  westernized countries have high [TS]

  percentages but slightly less yeah and [TS]

  of course we got you know your people [TS]

  coming in the people who are going to [TS]

  tell us that they have a different kind [TS]

  of eating style and diet plan and that's [TS]

  but what we do you know I mean we've to [TS]

  be completely honest we use being being [TS]

  on the kind of diet that we're on we use [TS]

  a microwave very in a very limited [TS]

  capacity and I realize most of what we [TS]

  use it for these days [TS]

  could prob we could probably do without [TS]

  it we could probably have no problem [TS]

  without a microwave at all these days [TS]

  the few years ago you know we were [TS]

  definitely heating up heating up stuff [TS]

  in there but what happens if you want to [TS]

  quickly steam some vegetables you just [TS]

  throw them in there it's convenient you [TS]

  know something like that but apparently [TS]

  that a lot of people are at they think [TS]

  of microwaves as being a distinctly [TS]

  American phenomenon even though they may [TS]

  exist [TS]

  some number in their country or in their [TS]

  their area or in their circle they think [TS]

  of it as being a very American thing and [TS]

  sort of typifies everything that's wrong [TS]

  with America the instant gratification [TS]

  the instant you know the ease of use the [TS]

  disposable philosophy that they perceive [TS]

  right perhaps correctly from many [TS]

  Americans to have and the poor quality [TS]

  of the food like processed for us to [TS]

  know that usually use what you're [TS]

  putting the microwave is some horrible [TS]

  you know not that necessarily has to be [TS]

  the case but it's associated with those [TS]

  actions that the worst processed foods [TS]

  and frozen foods you know you can heat [TS]

  them up in the microwave right that's [TS]

  not to say that that's what you know [TS]

  that's the only thing I microwave is [TS]

  good for you could use it to boil a cup [TS]

  of water so you know it's a versatile [TS]

  device but yeah I like that somebody I [TS]

  think somebody from hungry or something [TS]

  had noted that a lot of people in his [TS]

  country say that using a microwave is [TS]

  unhealthy because it damages the [TS]

  molecules and causes cancer right it's [TS]

  kind of like one of those things you get [TS]

  when it there's there any kind of new [TS]

  technology someone somewhere will become [TS]

  convinced that it's you know [TS]

  carcinogenic and you know some some [TS]

  reasonable centage of the time there [TS]

  right so that sort of reinforces the [TS]

  idea but yeah what it's interesting that [TS]

  when that type of thing can take hold in [TS]

  a widespread manner you know the way he [TS]

  was trying to express it here that he [TS]

  that this is you know not just one or [TS]

  two cooks but a lot of people actually [TS]

  believe this that damages the molecules [TS]

  and causes cancer because its uses [TS]

  radiation or whatever no matter what you [TS]

  no matter what new technology you have [TS]

  someone will believe that about it so we [TS]

  got that and we got some email from [TS]

  people who was this guy said he doesn't [TS]

  eat box foods planes' meals and the meal [TS]

  times are scheduled so that means you [TS]

  don't you don't need cooking time to be [TS]

  fast because if you know when you're [TS]

  gonna eat you just plan ahead of time [TS]

  and sure put things on the stove in the [TS]

  oven and a lot of European countries [TS]

  they get three four hours in the middle [TS]

  of the day for their lunch they only got [TS]

  that anymore they get you know three [TS]

  months vacation they get free health [TS]

  care it's always sunny it never rains [TS]

  it's always 72 degrees which is 18 [TS]

  degrees Celsius or whatever and you know [TS]

  they live they all drive Lamborghinis [TS]

  you know that there [TS]

  their significant others are beautiful [TS]

  just like they are and there's no crime [TS]

  I mean that's that's pretty much [TS]

  everywhere except America is what our [TS]

  emails tell us and they don't use my [TS]

  clothes that's kind of one of those ways [TS]

  but you can hack your own life but if [TS]

  you get rid of a microwave you're [TS]

  removing the option for having food sort [TS]

  of in a rush on the go and that forces [TS]

  you to plan ahead yeah I could maybe [TS]

  make you slow your life down or whatever [TS]

  it's turning into a Marlin tip show but [TS]

  I would say I can't remember the last [TS]

  time that I that I heated like that like [TS]

  I'll put a meal into the microwave it's [TS]

  probably been years since I've done it [TS]

  but I'll tell you what it is it feels [TS]

  broccoli better than anything else I [TS]

  know of yeah but don't don't use it for [TS]

  reheating because I have tons of [TS]

  leftovers and is great for reheat orbit [TS]

  doll hands it depends like I don't like [TS]

  to taste a chicken out of a microwave if [TS]

  it's reheated I'll use a toaster oven we [TS]

  actually do a heck of a lot of reheating [TS]

  in a toaster oven it means that I need [TS]

  to put that on topic list the why I hate [TS]

  all toasters but yeah toaster for [TS]

  anything that needs to be crisp all I'd [TS]

  love to talk to you about a toaster oven [TS]

  on a show we could do I could do I could [TS]

  talk hours about toasters that's a whole [TS]

  show but I think it will be I think [TS]

  it'll be our best show but our best show [TS]

  Y all toasters are horrible [TS]

  then might have to do a series on then [TS]

  it's not some we want to try and squeeze [TS]

  into just one show we can be done with [TS]

  the follow-up now if you want I will [TS]

  have that letter skipped but that's [TS]

  weaker cuz we have a really great topic [TS]

  yes really excited about this one and by [TS]

  the way we just want to mention that it [TS]

  is opening day in the major league [TS]

  baseball world today you didn't mention [TS]

  that I don't care I know your big fan [TS]

  not a big fan but insofar as I am a fan [TS]

  I am a Yankees fan just to put that out [TS]

  there it doesn't let's get some let's [TS]

  get some more hey well you will I'm a [TS]

  Phillies fan like all all good Americans [TS]

  should be mm-hmm all right you ready for [TS]

  the main topic ready hit me wait before [TS]

  we say it let's do it let's do a sponsor [TS]

  all right we actually we have a couple [TS]

  great sponsors this the first sponsor [TS]

  that we have a sound studio for I've [TS]

  talked about them before this is by [TS]

  felt-tip software you can record it [TS]

  use your audio with sound studio for its [TS]

  an easy-to-use mac app we have used this [TS]

  app here for years I used to use it [TS]

  exclusively to record everything that I [TS]

  did and I still use it whenever I'm not [TS]

  doing some kind of really super [TS]

  intensive multitrack recording it's [TS]

  great for for simple straightforward [TS]

  recording and and it's really easy to [TS]

  edit with and you can export all of your [TS]

  favorite formats from WAV AAC mp3 even [TS]

  this OGG Vorbis that john siracusa liked [TS]

  so much and it's available from the Mac [TS]

  App Store you can go check it out today [TS]

  you can also go to felt-tip calm /ss and [TS]

  it'll take you right to sound studio for [TS]

  we love this app there's an app that [TS]

  I've used again for years highly [TS]

  recommend that if you're thinking about [TS]

  recording anything and go check it out [TS]

  great Mac app to just it has that Mac [TS]

  know works the way you want it to work [TS]

  it's the replacement for sound that at [TS]

  16 you remember that I do what a great [TS]

  burger on that wasn't good years I was [TS]

  looking for the you know alright so [TS]

  sounded at 16 is old what is it that [TS]

  replaces it yeah I want a thing that [TS]

  shows me the sound and I chop it up with [TS]

  a little cursor and you know like I had [TS]

  basic needs and it took a long time on a [TS]

  Mac os10 error before I found sound [TS]

  studio yeah you don't you don't need to [TS]

  be a genius or go to a class at the [TS]

  Apple store to figure out how to use it [TS]

  you can just launch it and record [TS]

  something and edit it and hit delete and [TS]

  hit save and it works yep [TS]

  and OGG Vorbis I know it's big for you [TS]

  you know you're miss categorizing your [TS]

  like if you're gonna make fun of me for [TS]

  being nerdy you got to figure out what [TS]

  I'm nerdy about that's like a sort of a [TS]

  you know free software neckbeard kind of [TS]

  thing I don't think I've ever even had [TS]

  an OGG Vorbis file on my hard drive [TS]

  alone let alone playable funny it's [TS]

  funnier that way no it would be funnier [TS]

  if you did like DRM encrypted AAC files [TS]

  like all my audio has fair play and you [TS]

  still haven't talked about he's a [TS]

  crapple fanboy he's still I haven't [TS]

  talked about I encrypt yeah I'm not well [TS]

  this they always gets kicked off the [TS]

  follow up you know wait until at the [TS]

  lines released and we can have a whole [TS]

  show on ink written so this show though [TS]

  now the big reveal 20 minutes in what [TS]

  are we talking about today so last week [TS]

  when we were going through the topic [TS]

  list in the end the tail end of the show [TS]

  you were looking at these three ones [TS]

  that I recently [TS]

  added that sort of fit the format of [TS]

  what's wrong with blank we're blank is [TS]

  some well-known company yeah and since I [TS]

  didn't think single one of those [TS]

  companies I had enough to say about to [TS]

  fill I'll show we're going to do three [TS]

  of them today and I'll try to get [TS]

  through them quickly and what's wrong [TS]

  with like exactly there's lots of things [TS]

  wrong with everything right so we're [TS]

  trying to look for the most significant [TS]

  challenge that these companies have and [TS]

  I don't think the things I'm going to [TS]

  pick are particularly like people going [TS]

  to be blown away fry them because no one [TS]

  ever thought and they're the obvious [TS]

  things that are wrong with these [TS]

  companies but I think it's worth talking [TS]

  about like the biggest challenges of [TS]

  these of these well-known companies [TS]

  because the discussion will be [TS]

  interesting if not the you know oh my [TS]

  god this is amazing inside that this is [TS]

  what's wrong with this company and in [TS]

  that spirit I'm going to let you as [TS]

  usual [TS]

  try to guess what you think the most [TS]

  significant challenge what I'm going to [TS]

  say is the most significant challenge of [TS]

  these companies so we're gonna start [TS]

  with Google mmm like this is a pretty [TS]

  easy one what do you think you can give [TS]

  your opinion or you can try to guess [TS]

  what I'm going to say what is the most [TS]

  significant challenge to to Google as a [TS]

  company at this point when you say [TS]

  challenge you mean the thing that they [TS]

  need to do well it's like what's wrong [TS]

  with them like what's wrong with are [TS]

  they doing everything perfectly do they [TS]

  have some sort of problem what's wrong [TS]

  with all these things what's wrong with [TS]

  the company if you have to pick one [TS]

  thing and get these are all companies [TS]

  that are massively successful that are [TS]

  really awesome companies that you know [TS]

  are by any standard doing almost almost [TS]

  everything right and that's why it's [TS]

  interesting to find the one or two [TS]

  things that they're doing wrong you know [TS]

  I don't think it's possible for me to [TS]

  guess what you're going to say so I want [TS]

  you just give your own opinion I'll give [TS]

  my own opinion of what I think it the [TS]

  thing that strikes me as being the most [TS]

  wrong with Google is that I I don't ever [TS]

  feel like they have a single focus or a [TS]

  single track that unifies all of the [TS]

  different projects products and and [TS]

  focuses that they they need a focus if [TS]

  you look at what Apple is doing as a [TS]

  company that has a supremely sharp focus [TS]

  and compare that to what Google is doing [TS]

  Google has so many different things [TS]

  going on and it seems to me that that [TS]

  they suffer because of that they're sort [TS]

  of if you ever heard the term monkey [TS]

  mind how about that term it's a great we [TS]

  could talk about that at some point [TS]

  monkey mind is if you mad [TS]

  little monkey running around in a jungle [TS]

  somewhere he runs over he looks at the [TS]

  ants running around then he goes over [TS]

  climbed up the tree bounces off the tree [TS]

  jumps onto the other tree jumps off his [TS]

  brother's back does a backflip rolls [TS]

  around on the ground looks at the ants [TS]

  again grab some seeds from a tree and [TS]

  can't get his hand out of the tree drops [TS]

  isn't you know this is that this is the [TS]

  thing that a monkey does he's never he's [TS]

  never focused and because he's never [TS]

  focused these things that they do they [TS]

  can they can be successful like Google's [TS]

  have been successful but they also have [TS]

  these very strange and and in some cases [TS]

  huge missteps these huge mistakes that [TS]

  they make and it doesn't seem like they [TS]

  have a single unified vision so that [TS]

  would mean what I say is that what do [TS]

  you say so that's it's interesting that [TS]

  what you ended up talking about is what [TS]

  I'm going to end up talking about too [TS]

  but coming at it from entirely different [TS]

  directions so I'm going to start with [TS]

  what I think most people would say if [TS]

  you especially were talking to a [TS]

  business analyst on the business side [TS]

  would is wrong with Google and it [TS]

  actually went around the web you know [TS]

  like last week or so it's being passed [TS]

  around the blogs and the shownotes link [TS]

  that link to Gruber's link to the this [TS]

  story in the New York Times and a [TS]

  business analyst would say that what's [TS]

  wrong with Google is that if you look at [TS]

  its balance sheet you'll see that it [TS]

  derives 96% of its revenue from [TS]

  advertising and just on a plain business [TS]

  percentage like oh that's not [TS]

  diversified enough like you're putting [TS]

  all your eggs in one basket even though [TS]

  you have all these different things that [TS]

  you do it like so your your a complaint [TS]

  was that they're too scattered and not [TS]

  focused on anything right and then this [TS]

  complaining the other side is on the [TS]

  business side that they're too focused [TS]

  on one count sheet yeah their balance [TS]

  sheet is is not diversified enough [TS]

  they're making all their money from one [TS]

  thing and that makes them vulnerable [TS]

  extremely vulnerable to any sort of [TS]

  perturbance in the advertising world [TS]

  right but I'm not going to say that's [TS]

  the the thing that's not the root [TS]

  problem that's like a symptom and the [TS]

  reason for that is if you think about [TS]

  Apple if you try to apply the same [TS]

  yardstick to them they're their income [TS]

  looks diversified if you chop it up by [TS]

  product fine but if you just look at it [TS]

  in terms of like how they make their [TS]

  money they make all right similar [TS]

  percentage like not as high as 96 but [TS]

  like 90 percent they make from hardware [TS]

  no one really categorizing hardware and [TS]

  then software and other services they [TS]

  make about 90 percent of their of their [TS]

  revenue from hardware oh they're not [TS]

  diversified well you say they have seven [TS]

  different hardware [TS]

  they're very diversified of iPods iPhone [TS]

  even distribution that they can [TS]

  introduce new product lines all the time [TS]

  and those quickly grow to become [TS]

  significant revenue sources so it shows [TS]

  they're not vulnerable to for example [TS]

  weakness in the mp3 player Margaret if [TS]

  they just had the iPod that market has [TS]

  sort of gone down in terms of you know [TS]

  its importance its growth is as [TS]

  stagnated and the margins are not as big [TS]

  as they used to be right but they [TS]

  diversify but it's still hardware and if [TS]

  you said the same thing about Google you [TS]

  make 90 percent 96 percent from [TS]

  advertising I said well this all sorts [TS]

  of ads those mobile ads and people's [TS]

  phones there's ads and search results [TS]

  there's ads on the products that we have [TS]

  you know on the sidebar of all of our [TS]

  popular products and stuff like that so [TS]

  I think the too much of your revenue [TS]

  from one source thing is a red herring [TS]

  because Google would just use the same [TS]

  argument that Apple does to say that [TS]

  actually are reasonably diversified and [TS]

  I think advertising and hardware are [TS]

  just too vague terms to say that you're [TS]

  not diversified without any more details [TS]

  but the real problem I think is related [TS]

  to not not that they have so much of [TS]

  their money coming from one thing but [TS]

  what that one thing is and since the one [TS]

  thing is advertising I think they're the [TS]

  REIT problem the root problem is they [TS]

  have too few customers and that sounds [TS]

  silly very you know everybody uses [TS]

  Google and it seems like they have you [TS]

  know so what do you mean qualify matters [TS]

  what do you mean to to you but but [TS]

  customers you know the people who are [TS]

  using search are not the customer to see [TS]

  old cliche I have no idea who said this [TS]

  and I tried to look it up and could not [TS]

  track to the origin but basically if [TS]

  you're not paying for it then you're the [TS]

  product all right so everyone is using [TS]

  Google for search they are not Google's [TS]

  customers schools customers are the [TS]

  advertisers and there aren't that many [TS]

  advertisers in the world compared to the [TS]

  number of people in the world that kind [TS]

  of makes sense like if there was you [TS]

  know 90% of the world where advertisers [TS]

  who would they be advertising to there [TS]

  is a limited number of people who have [TS]

  goods and services to advertise and they [TS]

  want to advertise them to millions and [TS]

  millions of people so Google's actual [TS]

  customers the people who pay Google [TS]

  money are advertisers and they're not [TS]

  there aren't a lot of them now let's [TS]

  compare that the Apple where Apple's [TS]

  customers are the customers they want to [TS]

  make you know a little hardware widget [TS]

  they can sell you and they want to make [TS]

  it appealing to the customer and the [TS]

  customer gives the money directly it's a [TS]

  direct relationship between the person [TS]

  with the money gives them gives Apple [TS]

  the money and they get the piece of [TS]

  hardware and Apple makes you know 90% of [TS]

  its money from that hard [TS]

  type of thing oh and but Google on the [TS]

  other hand is motivated many things the [TS]

  advertisers like because what happens to [TS]

  them is advertisers hand them money and [TS]

  they hand the advertisers an opportunity [TS]

  to sell their goods in a way that they [TS]

  like now obviously advertisers like lots [TS]

  of customers so there's an indirect link [TS]

  to making customers happy but it's kind [TS]

  of like advertisers give us the money [TS]

  and in exchange we give the advertisers [TS]

  what they want and what they want is [TS]

  access to a lot of customers therefore [TS]

  we have to make something that a lot of [TS]

  customers will use therefore we make [TS]

  something the customers like mmm that is [TS]

  a much more indirect link then Apple has [TS]

  to make a piece of art where that a [TS]

  customer is going to give them money for [TS]

  you know and this makes me think that [TS]

  has something to do with why so many [TS]

  Google products fail this is the monkey [TS]

  mind thing I guess where they make you [TS]

  know all sorts of little things they [TS]

  make wave to make Orkut they make buzz [TS]

  Google Google Buzz I mean they're doing [TS]

  all sorts of things all over the place [TS]

  right you know but their batting average [TS]

  is not great when they have hits they [TS]

  have hits with it but they're you know [TS]

  the bad average is not that good [TS]

  certainly not as good as Apple's where [TS]

  when Apple comes up with something [TS]

  significant it's a big story if it fails [TS]

  so Google's just doing you know going in [TS]

  a million directions at once I mean just [TS]

  I can't even just try think of all the [TS]

  things that Google is doing with like [TS]

  scanning books and so not every our [TS]

  self-driving cars is an example but that [TS]

  you know everything that they're doing [TS]

  there and you know I mean I understand [TS]

  they've got more money than most other [TS]

  companies do so why not invest a little [TS]

  bit of that into many different areas [TS]

  but even in the areas that we know that [TS]

  they focus on like for example web [TS]

  applications in that in that web [TS]

  application space they still have a lot [TS]

  of you know they've got a couple big [TS]

  home runs [TS]

  like for example search and Mail but [TS]

  they've had a whole lot of fouls are [TS]

  mediocre things like Google Apps and [TS]

  stuff like that yeah and the thing is I [TS]

  think the reason that comes is because [TS]

  Google's expertise is not in building [TS]

  products that consumers like Google's [TS]

  expertise seems to be in monetizing its [TS]

  hits all right so they make tons and [TS]

  tons of products for consumers but [TS]

  they're not great at it so their average [TS]

  is not good but when they get a hit boy [TS]

  they really good at monitoring that [TS]

  thing and making money off of it by [TS]

  selling access to it to advertisers [TS]

  right and so [TS]

  I think that is that sort of encapsulate [TS]

  why Google acts the way it does why they [TS]

  seem to be monkey minded why the fact [TS]

  that they're driving all the revenue [TS]

  from advertising is bad it's not because [TS]

  it's it's not diversified it's because [TS]

  being in the advertising business is is [TS]

  you know it's a bad relationship with [TS]

  consumers now obviously it's maybe it's [TS]

  a good relationship with advertisers if [TS]

  I was an advertiser I'd be say this is [TS]

  not a problem for Google and maybe [TS]

  someone has to serve the advertising [TS]

  community but what it leaves the Google [TS]

  vulnerable to is someone who's better at [TS]

  making the same kind of services eating [TS]

  their lunch by making a service that [TS]

  people like better than Gmail for [TS]

  example and finding some way to get [TS]

  money from customers for it now again [TS]

  that's that's a challenge I mean when we [TS]

  talk about Apple in the online world we [TS]

  talked about how it's really hard to get [TS]

  money directly from consumers for things [TS]

  that you do online it's possible but [TS]

  people haven't really cracked that code [TS]

  yet maybe it has to be a cultural change [TS]

  or you know a some change in [TS]

  expectations of the consumers so for now [TS]

  Google is the king but I would say that [TS]

  the fact that it has so few actual [TS]

  customers leaves it a possibility of [TS]

  being held captive by those customers [TS]

  that they spend too much time serving [TS]

  the advertisers and not enough time [TS]

  serving the consumers because that's [TS]

  just a second level concern hmm so [TS]

  that's Google Facebook yeah I didn't [TS]

  Facebook this is an interesting one [TS]

  because if you ask people they think is [TS]

  wrong with Google maybe they'll come up [TS]

  with like the privacy advertising stuff [TS]

  maybe if they're in the business I'll [TS]

  talk about the revenue but Facebook [TS]

  people a lot tons of complaints about oh [TS]

  yeah have that have little to do with I [TS]

  think the company and more to do with [TS]

  when something is popular everyone's got [TS]

  some complaint of that no well that what [TS]

  would be some of the big complaints [TS]

  you'd expect to hear about Facebook [TS]

  obviously privacy is one of them I [TS]

  wouldn't even go with I said the first [TS]

  one would be for like user two off the [TS]

  street that that they're annoyed by [TS]

  something in Facebook and God knows what [TS]

  it would be the like they don't like how [TS]

  that you change the redesign they don't [TS]

  like how you can't reply to this thing [TS]

  or how someone can delete your comments [TS]

  or how you can't delete that like little [TS]

  petty things that really aren't what's [TS]

  wrong with the company but just but from [TS]

  the fact that if once you have millions [TS]

  and millions of people you [TS]

  do something everyone's going to have a [TS]

  complaint about it's kind of like back [TS]

  in the days of Windows when everyone had [TS]

  to complain about Windows because [TS]

  everyone had to use Windows and yes [TS]

  Windows was you know not great do you [TS]

  use Facebook I I signed up for Facebook [TS]

  way back when so you have an account you [TS]

  just don't use it I just do not use it [TS]

  which is bad because a lot of people who [TS]

  do use it you know or sending me things [TS]

  and then getting upset because I'm not [TS]

  replying but I log onto Facebook maybe [TS]

  once a month you know quickly retreat so [TS]

  the way I think I'm going to come at [TS]

  this Facebook thing is to do one of the [TS]

  nother one of those let's go back in [TS]

  time type of things and try to compare [TS]

  Facebook to some similar phenomenon so [TS]

  let's talk about the history of PCs very [TS]

  briefly so way back when you know nobody [TS]

  had no know individuals had computers [TS]

  and then the personal computer stuff [TS]

  started to happen and very in the in [TS]

  those early days you had a lot of [TS]

  different competitors sort of jockeying [TS]

  for position like you had things that [TS]

  probably young people have never heard [TS]

  of today but it was the homebrew thing [TS]

  where you try to make your own computer [TS]

  and there was the Altair and the helmet [TS]

  or Texas Instruments Tandy RadioShack [TS]

  used to have make computers you know [TS]

  there was Atari all sorts of things sort [TS]

  of jockeying for position in like you [TS]

  know now we're the king well now I hear [TS]

  there's a great new you know Commodore [TS]

  pet coming out but then the Tandy's is a [TS]

  contender to write lots of Trading [TS]

  Places lots of you know activity going [TS]

  on there but very few people had [TS]

  computers that stage and when you were [TS]

  like the winner like you had the best [TS]

  computer though you know what was it [TS]

  called was a context back then whatever [TS]

  whatever the you know the west coast [TS]

  computer fair with an e at the end you [TS]

  you had the best-in-show but you didn't [TS]

  really win much like you got you got the [TS]

  biggest slice of what was a really [TS]

  really tiny pie so there was lots of [TS]

  motion back then you know in any sort of [TS]

  early industry expected before there's [TS]

  any sort of consult consolidation and [TS]

  then you had sort of like the maturing [TS]

  of the personal computer you had the [TS]

  Apple 2 versus the IBM PC eventually the [TS]

  the Mac and that was kind of like where [TS]

  the bend in the hockey stick was you [TS]

  know in the graph where you went from [TS]

  really nobody has computers and nobody [TS]

  really cares who had the best you know [TS]

  computer this year because who the heck [TS]

  what kind of person owns a computer in [TS]

  their house anyway just you know super [TS]

  nerds right to the point where now at [TS]

  least people were going to have [TS]

  computers at work and they were thinking [TS]

  about getting one for the [TS]

  home it's it's really you know where [TS]

  that where that line kinked and [TS]

  unfortunately for many people but [TS]

  fortunately for Microsoft they were the [TS]

  one who just happened to be on top at [TS]

  that crucial point when the line kinked [TS]

  right so they didn't just get the [TS]

  biggest piece of a tiny pie they got the [TS]

  biggest piece of a pie that was growing [TS]

  humongously and the network effect [TS]

  kicked in for them and you know when [TS]

  when you know when everyone you know has [TS]

  a IBM pc-compatible thing we're going to [TS]

  put aside the part of IBM dropping the [TS]

  ball by giving Microsoft the license for [TS]

  the software so they realized everyone [TS]

  else but we just say Microsoft / IBM bc1 [TS]

  because as soon as that network effect [TS]

  kicked in [TS]

  they were the winner at that particular [TS]

  point and then their lead became [TS]

  insurmountable simply because of the [TS]

  growth of the market now if we look at [TS]

  getting closer to Facebook now we'll [TS]

  creep up on it social networking type [TS]

  services had a similar sort of history [TS]

  so in the beginning you had things like [TS]

  BBS's that you would dial into and [TS]

  connect to a modem when you had Lister [TS]

  and then you have stuff like Jeannie and [TS]

  CompuServe prodigy like everyone had [TS]

  some sort of online thing it wasn't the [TS]

  Internet it was this place you connected [TS]

  to usually through a phone modem and [TS]

  there was but it was a social network [TS]

  you could see other people you could [TS]

  mail back and forth they had chat rooms [TS]

  there were you know topics of interest [TS]

  little groups where you could talk about [TS]

  things that you know people are [TS]

  interested in you know different subject [TS]

  matter divisions right but again [TS]

  the winners of this these stages didn't [TS]

  really win much like just because [TS]

  CompuServe at you know trounced prodigy [TS]

  and Jeannie they got the biggest slice [TS]

  of a very very tiny pie of people who [TS]

  had modems in their house and were [TS]

  willing to get their loans on that lying [TS]

  to it and everything and this is [TS]

  interesting partner then AOL came along [TS]

  right an AOL came at the time where the [TS]

  people online graph was kinking and [TS]

  doing that hockey stick thing right and [TS]

  then all of a sudden the AOL diss for [TS]

  everywhere and now you know your mom is [TS]

  online everybody is online it's like [TS]

  this is this is that moment when that [TS]

  everything takes off you know surely AOL [TS]

  will rule forever all right uh but and [TS]

  I'm sure IOL thought that too no yeah [TS]

  but then the line kinked again because [TS]

  people didn't realize exactly how [TS]

  vertical the slope of this graphic again [TS]

  again with the internet it's like AOL [TS]

  that everyone's on AOL yeah but only the [TS]

  Nerds are online at all you know there's [TS]

  parents that are his relatives and it [TS]

  wasn't that you know once the internet [TS]

  came then it was like no seriously [TS]

  everybody everybody's going to be on and [TS]

  AOL wasn't ready for that because they [TS]

  had built their empire on the we are our [TS]

  own online service and we'll build a [TS]

  gateway to the internet for you or [TS]

  whatever and they they they got run over [TS]

  by by the internet basically and then [TS]

  within the realm of the internet was [TS]

  like let's start all right start over [TS]

  new game new game guys forget about that [TS]

  of this stuff AOL just got trounced the [TS]

  internet is common run steamrolled [TS]

  everybody but now within the internet [TS]

  let's see what we can do for this you [TS]

  know social networking society thing so [TS]

  like geo cities or you could build your [TS]

  own page and Friendster and LinkedIn and [TS]

  Orkut and all sorts of stuff like that [TS]

  where everyone was trying to build the [TS]

  new social network on the new playing [TS]

  field where there's just where the [TS]

  stakes are much much higher because [TS]

  everybody is in the internet the entire [TS]

  world right so a lot of those were to [TS]

  narrow like Flickr and stuff was never [TS]

  going to be the dominant social network [TS]

  just because it was focused on photos [TS]

  sorry and some things like Google's [TS]

  Orkut another example of Google kind of [TS]

  dropping the ball there they just I [TS]

  don't know what happens I wanted just [TS]

  spawn off into left field now is just [TS]

  all Brazilians on it or something I [TS]

  forget right what countries orchid is [TS]

  popular in it but it's massively popular [TS]

  new countries but worldwide not so by [TS]

  prinster that's a sad story you know we [TS]

  all know what happened to them LinkedIn [TS]

  is still around but it's more focused on [TS]

  business you know when myspace came [TS]

  along it was kind of the like [TS]

  general-purpose social network it was [TS]

  just a little tiny bit early right just [TS]

  a little little tiny bit early in the [TS]

  game so everyone was rushing to MySpace [TS]

  and but it had the kind of that music [TS]

  focus come look at my band's page and [TS]

  stuff like that yeah I spaced pages and [TS]

  I think the attraction to all these [TS]

  things in the social network was let you [TS]

  communicate with people online without [TS]

  having technical expertise like that's [TS]

  that's the pitch because everyone wants [TS]

  to do stuff online they want to show [TS]

  people pictures of their kids or talk to [TS]

  their friends or whatever it is they [TS]

  want to do but they don't have to know [TS]

  anything about you know technology to do [TS]

  it they just want to click some buttons [TS]

  and just share with people the same way [TS]

  you have social interactions in real [TS]

  life you know so my spikes let people do [TS]

  that but Facebook was you know right [TS]

  there with them a little bit behind and [TS]

  it was Facebook was slightly nicer than [TS]

  MySpace like not as ugly not as many [TS]

  flash [TS]

  GGO city's looking the place add more [TS]

  controlled growth because it was like [TS]

  confined to college students first and [TS]

  like slowly rolled out across the [TS]

  country and that that sort of built [TS]

  cachet for the service and it was just [TS]

  perfectly timed for like the myspace [TS]

  backlash when people were kind of sick [TS]

  of my space when it's like everyone's [TS]

  got a myspace page real Annoying and I [TS]

  go there and there's animated stuff in [TS]

  the background and I don't care about [TS]

  your stupid band and I just want to [TS]

  share photos with people and myspace [TS]

  doesn't have enough features for yet to [TS]

  let me do that and you know and Facebook [TS]

  said we're the kind of a gentler [TS]

  alternative that come over to us and and [TS]

  they were a little bit later and and [TS]

  that you know that was the the final [TS]

  kink where everyone is online and like I [TS]

  mean look at Facebook's numbers nothing [TS]

  they like 500 million people [TS]

  150 million people in the u.s. that's [TS]

  that's about half the u.s. population [TS]

  and it's the majority of like the [TS]

  eligible population like if you think [TS]

  about a baby's heart on Facebook and I [TS]

  think you're not assignable if you're [TS]

  not thirteen years old or something but [TS]

  Facebook's the victory sort of like [TS]

  Microsoft's was they got the biggest [TS]

  piece of a just humongous pie and the [TS]

  pie is not going to get any bigger [TS]

  really you know in the u.s. because once [TS]

  you've gotten more once you go over more [TS]

  than half of the adult population is on [TS]

  Facebook everything else is just you [TS]

  know icing on top of that you've won [TS]

  more or less I don't think they should [TS]

  be afraid there's another kink coming [TS]

  but the upshot of all these victories [TS]

  here is that the bad things about the [TS]

  victors become sort of entrenched aren't [TS]

  enshrined in the and it businesses [TS]

  themselves so if you think about [TS]

  Microsoft like they won the battle for [TS]

  the desktop they were everywhere right [TS]

  but every bad thing about Microsoft was [TS]

  now like made official [TS]

  so hey so if they have any problems [TS]

  their victim of their own success you [TS]

  know so the windows everywhere was their [TS]

  strategy and then you know serve them so [TS]

  well they got windows to go everywhere [TS]

  all right but windows everywhere is not [TS]

  a good strategy when the internet comes [TS]

  along hmm [TS]

  we're gonna make the Internet run on [TS]

  Windows and we'll use Windows Server as [TS]

  well servers haven't really been our [TS]

  strengths and I don't know how come the [TS]

  internet really doesn't seem to need [TS]

  Windows but no no windows everywhere [TS]

  kind of mostly miss the the internet [TS]

  revolution there hi and the same thing [TS]

  with mobile like mobile that I think [TS]

  Mobile is a next big thing well can we [TS]

  do Windows [TS]

  mobile I guess we can make Windows we [TS]

  have Windows on tablets we have Windows [TS]

  CE II for consumer electronics but you [TS]

  know Windows Mobile C it's right in the [TS]

  name Windows Mobile how about about [TS]

  Windows Phone no they and it does it's [TS]

  not even a technology thing it's just a [TS]

  mindset where like they're their [TS]

  platforms that they built it serve them [TS]

  so well the windows API win32 getting [TS]

  all those developers and everything like [TS]

  that it just they couldn't apply that [TS]

  same stuff to the mobile space as well [TS]

  and you know they just couldn't get over [TS]

  the hump maybe they will in the mobile [TS]

  and Windows Phone we'll see how that [TS]

  turns out but so far it's not going that [TS]

  well and also their enterprise [TS]

  entanglements like so I like to call [TS]

  when you when you have lots of demanding [TS]

  customers like all these companies that [TS]

  have Windows PCs on their desks they [TS]

  dictate to Microsoft more or less that [TS]

  you know you can't change too much too [TS]

  fast hmm and sometimes changing too much [TS]

  too fast is what you need to do to get [TS]

  on to the next big thing so this is a [TS]

  fit you know Microsoft became ossified [TS]

  and it's in its desktop victory state [TS]

  now in Facebook's case this is another [TS]

  complaint that you'd hear from nerds [TS]

  about Facebook is that is that it's too [TS]

  insular that it's not really a [TS]

  participant in the web you know what I [TS]

  mean it's kind of like an AOL where like [TS]

  you go into Facebook and when you're in [TS]

  Facebook there's a bunch of stuff in [TS]

  that world but the outside web is a [TS]

  foreign thing so you don't see lots of [TS]

  deep links into Facebook right because [TS]

  you can't see this person's page unless [TS]

  you're a friend of them so why bother [TS]

  giving a link it's like a separate thing [TS]

  it's kind of like going into AOL where [TS]

  you log in day oh well this is world of [TS]

  keywords and these special things and [TS]

  whatever they're doing and then there's [TS]

  the outside web well in the web itself [TS]

  there's the web and then there's [TS]

  Facebook which is other little island [TS]

  that you're going into all right I don't [TS]

  know if that's going to be a long-term [TS]

  problem so far it hasn't but it [TS]

  definitely sort of defines what they're [TS]

  doing you know like that's what Facebook [TS]

  is like and if that ever becomes a real [TS]

  problem for them I'm not sure they can [TS]

  turn turn that ship fast enough to say [TS]

  no no seriously we're a good web citizen [TS]

  we have you know permanent URLs and [TS]

  everything you know your data is not [TS]

  just our data it's your data and you can [TS]

  see your Facebook comment anywhere for [TS]

  forever and you can search on it and so [TS]

  on and so forth versus once you're [TS]

  inside our walled garden you just do [TS]

  whatever you do and we own all your data [TS]

  hmm and and you can't get to it from the [TS]

  outside and the other thing is that [TS]

  they're free so we've got the same [TS]

  situation as Google where the users [TS]

  the product there and they're selling [TS]

  they're making money somehow but it's [TS]

  not from the users people aren't paying [TS]

  to use Facebook and again so far that [TS]

  hasn't been a problem for online things [TS]

  in fact that seems to be the only way to [TS]

  go from mass-market online things but if [TS]

  it does become a problem they're going [TS]

  to be in the same situation as Google [TS]

  where their their customers are not the [TS]

  customers and if someone figures out how [TS]

  to make the customers the customers [TS]

  they're vulnerable to that now what does [TS]

  Facebook vulnerable to they vulnerable [TS]

  to a Netscape type of situation like [TS]

  Netscape came along and Microsoft [TS]

  freaked out and had that internet tidal [TS]

  wave memo and all sorts stuff yeah and [TS]

  and they put down Netscape you know they [TS]

  they think they put it out of its misery [TS]

  they rose to that challenge that you [TS]

  know panic scrambled and then they got [TS]

  rid of Netscape more or less Internet [TS]

  Explorer triumph right so maybe Facebook [TS]

  and can fight off some challengers like [TS]

  that but eventually you know they get [TS]

  you right so when Google came along [TS]

  Microsoft really had no answer to that [TS]

  all right and when Facebook faces it's [TS]

  Google maybe when it faces its Netscape [TS]

  it might be able to to be nimble about [TS]

  it but when it faces its Google perhaps [TS]

  not [TS]

  and that's basically like I had the boil [TS]

  down I would say that Facebook just [TS]

  doesn't seem nimble all right it seems [TS]

  even less nimble than Microsoft was [TS]

  because Microsoft for all of its [TS]

  problems was willing to at least try to [TS]

  do what it takes when the internet came [TS]

  along they tried to turn the whole [TS]

  company as fast as they could and again [TS]

  a reasonable job of it and the same [TS]

  thing with mobile they're trying to do [TS]

  that now and I did like Facebook you see [TS]

  all these complaints about Facebook but [TS]

  they don't seem to change direction in [TS]

  response to the complaints maybe the [TS]

  thing they don't have - maybe they going [TS]

  in the right direction already but they [TS]

  just don't seem like if they had any [TS]

  sort of serious challenger they would be [TS]

  able to change direction now just like [TS]

  Microsoft there was no one was going to [TS]

  dethrone Microsoft from the desktop [TS]

  right but that wasn't the challenge that [TS]

  it had to be worded it had to be worried [TS]

  about when it didn't matter that you [TS]

  owned the desktop and then what do you [TS]

  do so eventually this is this this is [TS]

  the proper haps the weakest complained [TS]

  about any couple maybe until the next [TS]

  one eventually Facebook will say we are [TS]

  the victors of social networking but [TS]

  then social networking won't matter in [TS]

  something else will Twitter kind of [TS]

  looks a little bit like a Netscape to me [TS]

  or there like a challenger to Facebook [TS]

  because they're a different thing but [TS]

  they're they're not playing the same [TS]

  game as Facebook all right [TS]

  maybe they are Google too I [TS]

  so far I think Facebook tried to buy [TS]

  them once but so far twitter hasn't been [TS]

  a problem but when when when Facebook's [TS]

  Google does come along I have little [TS]

  faith that the company is going to be [TS]

  nimble enough to turn their little [TS]

  walled garden everything is free [TS]

  advertisers pay us to get access to our [TS]

  users information business model is [TS]

  going to survive so that's Facebook [TS]

  already problem until how long will that [TS]

  take [TS]

  I don't know it's like Microsoft had [TS]

  quite a rain didn't they it was like you [TS]

  know 10 years a long time right so long [TS]

  so long that it was almost unimaginable [TS]

  that they wouldn't be where they are [TS]

  yeah and that's that's the network [TS]

  effect like when you build up that many [TS]

  people when the majority of eligible [TS]

  people in the United States are using [TS]

  your service no challenge was going to [TS]

  come from behind right it swamp you in [TS]

  some massive victory what's going to [TS]

  happen is that your victory will not [TS]

  will become less important and that the [TS]

  game will change and the game will be [TS]

  someplace else and no one will care that [TS]

  everyone is on Facebook right so I think [TS]

  that's what will happen some someone [TS]

  will eventually come up with something [TS]

  that's better than Facebook enough and [TS]

  different enough that people start using [TS]

  that and just slowly realize that [TS]

  they've stopped using Facebook because [TS]

  they're using this new thing but that [TS]

  could be a while now the third one you [TS]

  didn't say in the last episode what the [TS]

  third company was now I know what it is [TS]

  because it's in the notes and we sort of [TS]

  talked about it but we a bunch of people [TS]

  we're trying to guess they were sort of [TS]

  guessing and a very few people actually [TS]

  identified what it is it's been a [TS]

  mystery for at leat for a week if not [TS]

  more for people what is the third [TS]

  company and before you say it let's say [TS]

  thanks to world view this is a new and [TS]

  totally addictive take on email [TS]

  reporting from campaign monitor [TS]

  basically when you send a newsletter [TS]

  they will show you on a map in real-time [TS]

  whenever somebody opens it when they [TS]

  click on a link when they forward it to [TS]

  a buddy okay but get this they also show [TS]

  you who is liking your email on Facebook [TS]

  perfect to mention there but also on [TS]

  Twitter [TS]

  and again on a map the moment that it [TS]

  happens exact moment that it happens a [TS]

  moment somebody mentions it clicks it [TS]

  links it forwards it whatever you see [TS]

  this on a map and here's the best part [TS]

  it's free for every email campaign that [TS]

  you send you can check out a demo of [TS]

  this at campaign monitor comm slash [TS]

  world view one word like that pretty [TS]

  cool [TS]

  all right company number three you know [TS]

  I was surprised anybody in the chatroom [TS]

  now wanna want to throw out what they [TS]

  think it is cuz this is gonna surprise I [TS]

  think it's going to surprise a lot of [TS]

  people I like seeing people's guesses [TS]

  because it gave me new ideas for other [TS]

  companies and think about one of my [TS]

  favorites was Dropbox like that's that's [TS]

  that's the thing that interested me you [TS]

  can you throw out a company and then I [TS]

  can't think of anything bad about them [TS]

  all right Dropbox I had to think a [TS]

  little while but we're not taught this [TS]

  Dropbox is not the company no a bunch of [TS]

  people are saying Amazon and Twitter and [TS]

  you know Microsoft's hard to think about [TS]

  things that are bad about Microsoft here [TS]

  that's not that's not a challenge this [TS]

  is this is the kind of thing people who [TS]

  hear what you're about to say are likely [TS]

  gonna just turn the show off because [TS]

  you're hitting you're hitting in it and [TS]

  we're never turn the show off because [TS]

  they want their ideas challenged this [TS]

  company is the sole the very backbone of [TS]

  uh of America Zappos out that's a good [TS]

  one Zappos is a good guess I'm not in [TS]

  Zappos but everyone seems to love it I [TS]

  don't think I've ever even bought [TS]

  anything from it so far in the chat room [TS]

  nobody who's gone to get let's let's [TS]

  let's uh let's lower that the hatchet [TS]

  let's let him have right so this this is [TS]

  the biggest challenge and company that [TS]

  you can think of something what what's [TS]

  the what's wrong with this company [TS]

  nothing just answer me his pics are no [TS]

  have you ever heard nothing's wrong with [TS]

  Big Show are ever had anyone say [TS]

  anything bad about fix on the this [TS]

  company is the heart and soul of [TS]

  everything that's right with America [TS]

  there's nothing wrong with them how dare [TS]

  you [TS]

  and it's another Steve Jobs company [TS]

  right now think about Apple this you [TS]

  have no problem finding people who can [TS]

  say something that's wrong about Apple [TS]

  right it's Steve Jobs baby you know but [TS]

  you can find it's too can throw a rock [TS]

  on the internet without somebody that [TS]

  hates Apple but then look at this other [TS]

  company Pixar can you find anybody who [TS]

  has ever said anything bad about pixel [TS]

  and they're sure it's not because I [TS]

  haven't try but here here John I'll tell [TS]

  you something bad about Pixar this is [TS]

  horrible this is something they should [TS]

  be totally ashamed of is that the [TS]

  graphics in Toy Story 1 weren't as good [TS]

  as they weren't oyster 2 and the ones in [TS]

  Toy Story 2 weren't as good as the [TS]

  graphics in Toy Story 3 I'm a shame on [TS]

  the horrible company can you believe [TS]

  that yeah that's the type of stuff you [TS]

  can only you can only variables that and [TS]

  this this is oh yeah I didn't come at [TS]

  this as a I'm trying to think of a [TS]

  company that is so good that I can't [TS]

  think of anything wrong with it this [TS]

  came to me in the opposite direction as [TS]

  things always do I was I forget what I [TS]

  was thinking about I saw I saw a tweet [TS]

  and it made me think about Pixar and it [TS]

  made me realize that that they have a [TS]

  weakness [TS]

  we're just shocking because every other [TS]

  thought I've ever had about Pixar was [TS]

  the how wonderful they are now perfectly [TS]

  alright so again this is not trying to [TS]

  say that the Pixar is a horrible company [TS]

  Pixar is perhaps the best company in the [TS]

  entire universe so would why which is [TS]

  why what's wrong with them you think of [TS]

  one thing that's wrong trying to think [TS]

  of what you're gonna I'm trying to think [TS]

  of what you're gonna say yeah it's and [TS]

  again like my facebook one was weak it's [TS]

  like oh they'll be so dominant it that [TS]

  eventually they'll miss the next big [TS]

  thing like that's pretty weak already ah [TS]

  this may be even weaker and less [TS]

  convinced are you going to say that it's [TS]

  because they and people in the chat room [TS]

  are this wasn't the one thing I had [TS]

  thought of and this is what people in [TS]

  the chat room are saying is it because [TS]

  of their I guess Disney owns them or [TS]

  their relationship with Disney is that [TS]

  it that's a good guess actually because [TS]

  that's the fear of like you know when [TS]

  Disney takes over they'll do make bad [TS]

  decisions but I think it was kind of a [TS]

  reverse takeover where a Pixar Pixar [TS]

  took over Disney animation sure does [TS]

  seem like it for kind of like next you [TS]

  know Apple bought next but you know next [TS]

  all right but for now I'm I'm not [TS]

  worried about that oh no here's here's [TS]

  the tweet this between actually came [TS]

  from I wish you would tell us how to [TS]

  pronounce his name [TS]

  Horus did do a Simcoe a Simcoe calm that [TS]

  guy yeah he's great he tweeted this and [TS]

  this this triggered this thought process [TS]

  his tweet was Pixar developed the [TS]

  process to engineer art Apple develop [TS]

  the process to make art of engineering [TS]

  and that says you know it's a nice tweet [TS]

  about to Steve Jobs companies and their [TS]

  and their different approaches one is in [TS]

  the world of creativity and they brought [TS]

  technology to bear and apples in the [TS]

  world of technology and they brought [TS]

  creativity to bear and it's [TS]

  Steve Jobs his thing that he puts up [TS]

  that street sign the intersection of [TS]

  liberal arts and technology you know [TS]

  he's done that for the past couple years [TS]

  and this was a little encapsulation of [TS]

  that and it reminded me of something [TS]

  that I saw it was a talk from Ed Catmull [TS]

  in 2007 to the Stanford Graduate School [TS]

  of Business I put the link in the show [TS]

  notes and I just want to do a sidebar in [TS]

  the show notes because I know sometimes [TS]

  when I listen to podcasts and they're [TS]

  like oh yeah we'll have a link in the [TS]

  show notes no one has any idea how the [TS]

  heck to get to the show notes because [TS]

  you're listening to a podcast and you're [TS]

  doing whatever you're jogging you're you [TS]

  know you're walking around your [TS]

  headphones on you have no idea [TS]

  like can I remember that the name of the [TS]

  show where is that the URL of the site [TS]

  how do I get to the show notes and by [TS]

  the time you get back to the computer [TS]

  you've forgotten so here for the people [TS]

  who keep here as we're hearing us refer [TS]

  to show notes and have no idea where [TS]

  they are this is where it is it's the [TS]

  number five by5 dot TV slash [TS]

  hypercritical right [TS]

  I've by five dot TV slash hypercritical [TS]

  now will list all the episodes you click [TS]

  on one of the episodes and you will see [TS]

  the show notes yeah I just go to the [TS]

  episode that you were listening to if [TS]

  you know it and we have descriptions up [TS]

  there of each episode so if you weren't [TS]

  sure which is the one where John was [TS]

  talking about which companies were the [TS]

  bad ones that'll be there right in the [TS]

  description so some some reading will be [TS]

  involved if you're not sure of the [TS]

  number but we also do say the number at [TS]

  the top of the show I already said the [TS]

  distinguish I don't know if people know [TS]

  that you have to go to five by five dot [TS]

  TV like that you know they go [TS]

  hypercritical com or they try to click [TS]

  through an iTunes so just there it is [TS]

  I'm by five dot TV slash hypercritical [TS]

  you will find the show notes and I say [TS]

  this because this Ed Catmull speech Ed [TS]

  Catmull is one of the founders of Pixar [TS]

  uh this talk that he gave it's really [TS]

  long he talks slowly and he looks like [TS]

  your dad right I take the time out to [TS]

  watch this thing I think is like an hour [TS]

  long or whatever it is really long and [TS]

  you think you're going to be bored but [TS]

  if you find this podcast remotely [TS]

  interesting I think you'll you will get [TS]

  tremendous value out of watching this so [TS]

  you should watch this this very long [TS]

  video of Ed Catmull talking he talks [TS]

  about the founding of Pixar but mostly [TS]

  about how Pixar faced its challenges [TS]

  like when Pixar had many trials and [TS]

  tribulations that from the outside you [TS]

  would not imagine that they had because [TS]

  we just see the results and the results [TS]

  are wonderful these great movies right [TS]

  but he talks about how [TS]

  how did this happen how did this company [TS]

  make these great movies time and time [TS]

  again and what are the problems that [TS]

  face and how did address them and the [TS]

  reason I thought of it is because that [TS]

  tweet was saying you know the Pixar [TS]

  developed a process to engineer art and [TS]

  Edie cat moles talk talks about that [TS]

  process he's an engineer he was you know [TS]

  a technical guy not a business guy who [TS]

  just became a business guy because he [TS]

  was the founder of the company and he [TS]

  took a technical approach to to doing [TS]

  business stuff you know it's like let's [TS]

  find something that went wrong think of [TS]

  a solution for it and then formalize the [TS]

  solution to prevent the problem from [TS]

  happening again so you're trying to [TS]

  ratchet your company up so every time [TS]

  there's a problem address it formalize [TS]

  the solution and you know and make that [TS]

  part of your process and they want and [TS]

  that's what engineers want they want a [TS]

  repeatable process all right they don't [TS]

  they don't want touchy-feely kind of let [TS]

  the artist do his work because that's [TS]

  not predictable process is predictable [TS]

  and an engineering approach is to say [TS]

  look if our process is not producing [TS]

  things that we that are creatives find [TS]

  are good the process is broken so let's [TS]

  adjust the process now see how income [TS]

  with this so this approach produces all [TS]

  the movies that we've seen these Pixar [TS]

  movies and it just it it's kind of a [TS]

  triumph of engineering to say that you [TS]

  can engineer creativity by taking an [TS]

  engineering approach to something that [TS]

  used to be purely within the realm of [TS]

  emotions that like that like take motion [TS]

  out of the equation and this in the Ed [TS]

  Catmull speech you'll see lots of [TS]

  situations where they threw away a [TS]

  tremendous amount of work they had done [TS]

  which you know is not what artists will [TS]

  want to do they will fight for their [TS]

  creation forever and but you know [TS]

  they're taking a dispassionate [TS]

  engineering approach and saying no we [TS]

  have to throw this out it's not good [TS]

  enough let's try again all right [TS]

  that's a Steve Jobs approach getting [TS]

  back to the criticism thing of just not [TS]

  letting anything that's not good enough [TS]

  out the door the key thing is not that [TS]

  Pixar is amazingly wonderful about doing [TS]

  everything they're just amazingly [TS]

  wonderful about killing anything that's [TS]

  not good right it's the opposite [TS]

  approach it's that they they have the [TS]

  same failures as everybody else they [TS]

  just do not let the failures out the [TS]

  door so that's that's their approach to [TS]

  this but what this approach I think [TS]

  gives you is a to do like Pixar which I [TS]

  would say that they're over [TS]

  average of product is better than anyone [TS]

  elses I can't think of another movie [TS]

  studio or another another entity that [TS]

  has produced a higher average quality [TS]

  you know just movie after movie after [TS]

  movie to average them together just head [TS]

  and shoulders but above everybody else [TS]

  but what I was thinking about is John [TS]

  Lasseter another was he a founder of [TS]

  Pixar he was one of the early creatives [TS]

  brought in and how he said he's a bigwig [TS]

  at Pixar brain a stylist he's been [TS]

  running it for a long time for de-facto [TS]

  running in right because you know he's [TS]

  jobs isn't there because he's at Apple [TS]

  or whatever so Lassiter's running things [TS]

  and he's a creative rent and his hero [TS]

  that he talks about all the time one of [TS]

  his his animation Heroes is a Miyazaki [TS]

  Japanese animator and and this and I'm [TS]

  also he's active and I thought about [TS]

  this I thought if you were to ask John [TS]

  Lasseter would he say that any Pixar [TS]

  movie is as good or better than his [TS]

  favorite Miyazaki and if you think about [TS]

  Miyazaki's work the average quality of [TS]

  Miyazaki movies I would say is like not [TS]

  up to Pixar stands there that you know [TS]

  they're like throwaway ones and duds [TS]

  here and there yeah I think the peaks of [TS]

  Miyazaki's work higher than the peaks of [TS]

  any of Pixar's work and I think it's [TS]

  because Pixar's approach to engineering [TS]

  is preventing them from ever having big [TS]

  failures but also preventing them from [TS]

  having a transcendent success to the [TS]

  heights of the best of Miyazaki hmm and [TS]

  I'm wondering if you even if you ask [TS]

  John Lasseter the V Pixar guy would he [TS]

  would he agree would he say that he has [TS]

  matched his hero in any particular way [TS]

  in any movie and would do what'd he say [TS]

  that he has surpassed his favorite you [TS]

  know so I think this this approach to [TS]

  engineering art the advantages you get a [TS]

  consistently good product the [TS]

  disadvantage may be that you can never [TS]

  get that highest high because I think to [TS]

  get the highest high you have to be [TS]

  willing to have big failures you have to [TS]

  be willing to have the riskier [TS]

  divergences that don't fit within your [TS]

  past experience your past experience is [TS]

  telling you this is not good do not let [TS]

  it out the door everything that is made [TS]

  you have series of hit movies one after [TS]

  the other all that you know knowledge [TS]

  and experience is telling you do not let [TS]

  this happen because this will be bad and [TS]

  that is killing the more sort of divert [TS]

  interesting ideas before they you know [TS]

  they get out the door now if you watch [TS]

  the Ed Catmull speech he talks about [TS]

  this this is obviously the engineering [TS]

  approaches to acknowledge this is the [TS]

  fact that that a process can stifle [TS]

  creativity so we have to let people you [TS]

  know bring in new blood bring in fresh [TS]

  people don't shoot down a just because [TS]

  I'm not what we haven't done before but [TS]

  I have to think that that approach that [TS]

  that when I see this numb this many [TS]

  consistently good movies coming out it [TS]

  makes me think there's there's a [TS]

  sickness in the company that is not [TS]

  going to let them ever have the [TS]

  transcendent success because I think [TS]

  they have the transcendent success you [TS]

  have to be allow for the big failures [TS]

  and the fact they haven't had a big [TS]

  failure makes me think that that's a [TS]

  problem with their process hmm so you [TS]

  almost you would almost feel better [TS]

  about Pixar if they had had a big [TS]

  failure like yeah do something ambitious [TS]

  really really ambitious and have it fall [TS]

  on its face right and because you would [TS]

  think after this period of time it's not [TS]

  like you expect their second movie to be [TS]

  that but they're this period of time [TS]

  surely they're you know you're not [TS]

  taking enough risks if you're not if [TS]

  you're never failing right and this gets [TS]

  back to speech to one of the things he [TS]

  talks about in the speeches like like [TS]

  what I'm saying is it it's not like I'm [TS]

  saying Pixar is horrible or doom drink [TS]

  like that is exact opposite of that [TS]

  right but it doesn't mean that this one [TS]

  thing I had to dig out this tiny little [TS]

  nugget I had to dig out of you know so [TS]

  hard to think of anything wrong with [TS]

  Pixar doesn't mean that this is any less [TS]

  dire than any more obvious thing that's [TS]

  wrong with other companies and as Edie [TS]

  camel says in the speech success hides [TS]

  problems and the more successful you are [TS]

  the bigger problems you can hide so the [TS]

  fact that I that this never occurred to [TS]

  me until I got triggered by that [TS]

  engineering art phrase nothing doesn't [TS]

  mean that this is not a real problem and [TS]

  it doesn't mean that this problem [TS]

  actually isn't is small it might be a [TS]

  big problem because they've had such [TS]

  massive success and the more successful [TS]

  you are the more it hides problems like [TS]

  that you know you can you know you get [TS]

  my thing is like how long can Pixar [TS]

  continue like this [TS]

  how long can Pixar possibly make the [TS]

  same great movies over and over again [TS]

  like will they ever fail and at a [TS]

  certain point the culture of the company [TS]

  becomes make sure we [TS]

  becomes make sure we [TS]

  don't have a failure instead of make [TS]

  sure the next movie is just the best [TS]

  movie we ever made [TS]

  I don't know if there at that point yet [TS]

  what I hear from inside you know Pixar [TS]

  about their plans and everything sounds [TS]

  to me like they know that this is an [TS]

  issue and they're actively working to [TS]

  fight it like when they brought in Brad [TS]

  Bird for The Incredibles for example [TS]

  like they know that they need to do this [TS]

  they know like make our next movie [TS]

  completely unlike any movie we've ever [TS]

  made before you know bringing new people [TS]

  to do it people who are not constrained [TS]

  by the ideas of our previous movies but [TS]

  yeah yeah like I said the fact that I [TS]

  don't see any big flops the fact that I [TS]

  don't see any super ambitious product [TS]

  but you know that falls on its face [TS]

  makes me think they're not risking [TS]

  enough but so but if you look at if you [TS]

  look at what they did with Toy Story 1 [TS]

  that was that was that risk that moved [TS]

  only the first one is you know is the [TS]

  big risk you know just registering [TS]

  they're not evolving they're not [TS]

  continuing to push the envelope in any [TS]

  way so what would that look like what [TS]

  would a big risk look like well that's [TS]

  what I was going to ask I mean would be [TS]

  for example again you don't say you have [TS]

  to do any of these things I'm just [TS]

  trying to think of things that would be [TS]

  diverged so a big divergence would be a [TS]

  movie that's not for kids obviously I [TS]

  think they did The Incredibles that was [TS]

  PG but the seriously a movie for adults [TS]

  you know another risk would be a movie [TS]

  in a genre that they that had they've [TS]

  never done before like trying to do [TS]

  photo realism not because that that's [TS]

  what you should do because animation is [TS]

  bad but just because it's the opposite [TS]

  of what they've done so far and all [TS]

  these may be bad ideas but if some if [TS]

  someone has some inspiration to do [TS]

  something great based on one of these [TS]

  ideas I wouldn't I would like to see [TS]

  that idea run with instead of you know [TS]

  tried but then you know thrown away [TS]

  because it wasn't good enough or or [TS]

  reworked or just you know we want to put [TS]

  out a solid product but we're not [TS]

  willing to risk you on you know it was [TS]

  at some point it's gonna be someone who [TS]

  has some crazy idea that's so good but [TS]

  that everyone at Pixar disagrees with [TS]

  right and I would like to see that guy [TS]

  given a chance to do what he wants [TS]

  despite the fact that everyone thinks is [TS]

  going to be a disaster just in case it's [TS]

  something amazing when you've got a [TS]

  single guy like Miyazaki I think he has [TS]

  a higher level of control there and he [TS]

  can do his duds where he's like I'm [TS]

  really into you know cats and I'm going [TS]

  to do a movie about that no it's not [TS]

  great you know so he has hits and misses [TS]

  that's what [TS]

  individuals like but an organization [TS]

  sort of smooths out the lumps but I want [TS]

  to see those lumps on these lumps stick [TS]

  up I'm not so interested in a lot and [TS]

  the values that go down the the duds I'm [TS]

  not saying I need to have a bad movie [TS]

  you know I want to see those Peaks that [TS]

  poke out and I think you need to have [TS]

  the valleys to get the peaks not dare [TS]

  you yeah you know like I would never [TS]

  have said this three years ago four [TS]

  years ago but Pixar has been around for [TS]

  a long time now and it's just something [TS]

  beyond the chat room brought cars to I [TS]

  know nothing about cars too and I [TS]

  suspect that Pixar's magic is that even [TS]

  though you think Cars 2 is going to be [TS]

  dumb and it's just a sequel it's got to [TS]

  in the title they do what no one else [TS]

  does and you make a good sequel like Toy [TS]

  Story 2 is fantastic Toy Story 3 was [TS]

  fantastic and movies with numbers after [TS]

  them are supposed to get worse and be [TS]

  horrible and they're not because of [TS]

  Pixar's process they're not but Cars 2 [TS]

  does not make me think this is going to [TS]

  be the transcend most amazing movie the [TS]

  Lassiter is finally going to agree is [TS]

  better than his favorite Miyazaki movie [TS]

  you know what I mean yeah no I hear you [TS]

  there and I actually haven't I I've seen [TS]

  previews of cars too I'm not I'm not in [TS]

  love with it but I don't I don't feel [TS]

  like that qualifies as being a flop [TS]

  because it it doesn't strike me as a [TS]

  movie that's taking a risk and we don't [TS]

  know I mean I think when they say [TS]

  they're making Toy Story 2 it's like oh [TS]

  you can't do that man Toy Story 1 was [TS]

  just so perfect why do you have to go [TS]

  and make a sequel but if they have [TS]

  something new and interesting to say you [TS]

  can do a sequel well but it's really [TS]

  difficult for a sequel to sort of break [TS]

  through and reach new heights it's [TS]

  sequels can be better than the original [TS]

  like I think Toy Story 2 in many ways is [TS]

  better than Toy Story 1 and some people [TS]

  would make the same argument for three [TS]

  but it's not like an order of magnitude [TS]

  better whereas if somebody wants to do [TS]

  like an adult murder mystery in in CG [TS]

  that and it's fantastic and it like it [TS]

  wins the Academy Award for Best Picture [TS]

  above live-action movies or something [TS]

  like that's the type of victory that I'm [TS]

  talking about now that is not going to [TS]

  happen that if they're not willing to [TS]

  take the risk of just falling on their [TS]

  face and the rienne again the reason I [TS]

  think they're not taking the risk of [TS]

  falling on the face is because they [TS]

  haven't over such a long period of time [TS]

  surely if they were risking falling on [TS]

  their face they would have done it by [TS]

  now law of averages right [TS]

  maybe maybe no become more optimistic [TS]

  about them than you are it's not no I [TS]

  didn't get I don't think so this is you [TS]

  know Pixar is doomed but you know [TS]

  nothing is so perfect right that's true [TS]

  you really like [TS]

  again I would encourage everybody to [TS]

  watch that Ed Catmull talk because it is [TS]

  just fantastic isn't the show notes it [TS]

  is in the show notes well here's you [TS]

  here's another thing here's another [TS]

  thing you can do if you're a big fan and [TS]

  you want show notes and you don't want [TS]

  to be bothered to go to the website you [TS]

  can subscribe to any one of these feeds [TS]

  you have to go to the website once to [TS]

  get the URL for them but once you do [TS]

  that you can subscribe to them in your [TS]

  in your news reader whatever that is [TS]

  whatever app or or platform you want to [TS]

  use and the show notes are in there and [TS]

  your news reader should be smart enough [TS]

  not to try to download the the mp3 file [TS]

  attachment but it'll just show you the [TS]

  notes of full notes with links and text [TS]

  and everything right in there so you [TS]

  don't even have to go to the website [TS]

  well they didn't even know I didn't even [TS]

  know this sure we're going to the [TS]

  website simple you should go to the [TS]

  website but to subscribe and in your [TS]

  news reader and you'll see them right [TS]

  there that said this is a custom [TS]

  solution that I wrote myself that's why [TS]

  there's so many options and that's also [TS]

  why there's so many little bugs [TS]

  well you'll fix those someone in the [TS]

  chatroom is saying that up and Wally are [TS]

  examples of the big risks and I guess it [TS]

  just so happens that they they succeeded [TS]

  so if you think about those two movies [TS]

  what was risky about Wally [TS]

  well everyone cites the beginning part [TS]

  where there's no dialogue and everything [TS]

  as it's risky I keep kids attention but [TS]

  you know kids are entertained by puppet [TS]

  shows for the puppets don't talk so I [TS]

  don't think it's a risk to do physical [TS]

  comedy to kids and keep their attention [TS]

  and I would say that the the larger [TS]

  story the larger ecological saved the [TS]

  planet story on wall-e was kind of [TS]

  ham-fisted not that I'm not a fan of [TS]

  wall-e but I I'm not as impressed by [TS]

  that it wasn't it wasn't as subtle as I [TS]

  thought it should have been [TS]

  up I guess the risk there is the main [TS]

  character is an old guy but then they [TS]

  put in the cute kid anyway so there was [TS]

  someone for the little kids in the [TS]

  audience to relate to yeah and the risk [TS]

  is showing that sequence it ends in a [TS]

  sad note I'm not sure how devastated [TS]

  children were by that opening segment [TS]

  our ones going to tell me right into [TS]

  their kid cried during that part but it [TS]

  was I think it was more devastating to [TS]

  people who can relate to the idea of [TS]

  being married and you know Ramona little [TS]

  kids and stuff like that right so adults [TS]

  have more of a line into that thing even [TS]

  if the kids cried about it too because [TS]

  they didn't like it when they that the [TS]

  old lady died but that was that was more [TS]

  aimed at the adult so I don't think that [TS]

  was a risk to do something like that [TS]

  because I didn't think kids were going [TS]

  to leave that knot I didn't think was a [TS]

  risk obviously was a risk but it wasn't [TS]

  the type of we may fall on our face [TS]

  completely risk because I think if you [TS]

  told anyone you were going to do that [TS]

  they would say yeah I can see how that [TS]

  can work because the kids you know won't [TS]

  be too devastated by they won't leave [TS]

  the theater crying and tears but the [TS]

  parents will be drawn in and then we've [TS]

  got them for the rest of the movie mmm [TS]

  it's easy to explain why that's going to [TS]

  work it's not as easy to explain why you [TS]

  think you know I don't let me think of [TS]

  another crazy idea for Pixar I keep [TS]

  going about the photorealism simply [TS]

  because they haven't done it and [TS]

  everyone says it's a horrible idea like [TS]

  do not do photo realism there's no point [TS]

  in it and the strength of animation is [TS]

  that doesn't look like real life just do [TS]

  not do it but you know that that's [TS]

  that's a pic for you know whatever you [TS]

  need to do that and then do an adult [TS]

  genre you know - I don't know oh can you [TS]

  think of a genre that would be the exact [TS]

  opposite of what Pixar has done I think [TS]

  murder mystery but that might be too [TS]

  close gosh that's a tough question a [TS]

  photo realistic CG movie about the [TS]

  Holocaust let's bring up the Hoff [TS]

  singing cuz listeners love when I like [TS]

  Gimli Schindler's List you know it from [TS]

  Pixar right I never say this is this is [TS]

  the worst idea ever first of all you're [TS]

  doing it for realistic what the heck is [TS]

  the point why Andrews do with [TS]

  live-action hack just a second of all [TS]

  doing and doing anything having to with [TS]

  the Holocaust in animation is insulting [TS]

  to the actual like it is a terrible idea [TS]

  and they would never let that idea go [TS]

  through and it's exactly opposite of [TS]

  what they do and maybe it is a terrible [TS]

  idea maybe that idea would fall on its [TS]

  face but these the type of I'm trying to [TS]

  think of the worst possible idea ever [TS]

  these are the type of ideas that someday [TS]

  someone's going to happen on the with [TS]

  you I don't how about the Godfather yeah [TS]

  there you go like organized [TS]

  crime drama yeah for adults only rated-r [TS]

  more not a Yakuza thing it has to be in [TS]

  the American mob yes because has been [TS]

  done in animation it's been great yeah [TS]

  so maybe that'll come by what is what is [TS]

  Pixar's a next project I forget I think [TS]

  it's a mob film for adults only no it [TS]

  was that every time I hear what the next [TS]

  film was going to be I'm surprised so it [TS]

  shows that they are innovating but the [TS]

  fact that they have never ever failed [TS]

  and makes me suspect of this whole [TS]

  engineering art thing so what's next [TS]

  week's topic gonna be oh I gotta pull [TS]

  the page we gotta take your time we're [TS]

  getting down to just the ones that you [TS]

  don't want to pick then you have to pick [TS]

  one oh I know you want the the third one [TS]

  because you've picked it many times your [TS]

  but I just don't have that much to say [TS]

  about well maybe we do that and then we [TS]

  talked about we talked about toasters [TS]

  the rest the time toasters I feel like I [TS]

  have to prep for that's a serious [TS]

  serious topic so yeah yeah maybe you [TS]

  could put some work into the show and by [TS]

  the way for the people who brought this [TS]

  up I'm speaking specifically about [TS]

  toaster ovens when I just say toasters I [TS]

  mean a toaster oven you're not talking [TS]

  about the kind where you put not talking [TS]

  about slot toasters which may also stink [TS]

  too but I just don't use them we can [TS]

  tell I could talk about those enough to [TS]

  cover for it they all say well I might [TS]

  add items to the list okay and we just [TS]

  did a non tech show so we're not I can't [TS]

  yell at you about your called diets or [TS]

  anything like that right well I can but [TS]

  I'll do that off the air indeed all [TS]

  right so I get I guess that's it for [TS]

  this one you don't you don't to say what [TS]

  we're doing next week we'll leave it a [TS]

  mystery they don't need to know yeah and [TS]

  also for this this format of what's [TS]

  wrong with X they're all jackals anyway [TS]

  those people I may have other we may [TS]

  come back to this this may be a regular [TS]

  thing you know in a couple weeks if I [TS]

  decide what's wrong with you know if I [TS]

  decide I want to do what's wrong with [TS]

  Dropbox or people have suggestions for [TS]

  companies or anything like that because [TS]

  I like like thinking about this the more [TS]

  popular the company the more beloved the [TS]

  more interest [TS]

  thing it is Dan and hey we can always do [TS]

  encryption oh we got to do that I'm [TS]

  gonna do that do it someday [TS]

  in the meantime everyone's data will be [TS]

  mercifully unencrypted all right so go [TS]

  to five by five TV you can hear previous [TS]

  episodes of this show you can see the [TS]

  show notes and listen to other shows [TS]

  that are there love to have you go there [TS]

  and of course please rate the show you [TS]

  have to rate it and review it for John [TS]

  to be happy with you in index no [TS]

  comments on it any comments somewhere [TS]

  and the siracusa on twitter accent on [TS]

  the a well you don't have the accent [TS]

  mark we can work on that siracusa on to [TS]

  it i'm dan benjamin on twitter we'd like [TS]

  to thank you for listening thanks to our [TS]

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  thanks very much to them thanks for you [TS]

  for listening we'll see y'all again next [TS]

  week [TS]

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