0:00:01this is hypercritical episode number 12
0:00:05this is a weekly talkshow ruminating on
0:00:07exactly what is wrong in the world of
0:00:09Apple and related technologies and
0:00:11businesses my co-host John siracusa of
0:00:14Ars Technica and elsewhere insists that
0:00:18nothing is so perfect that he can't
0:00:19complain about it I tend to agree that
0:00:22that is true
0:00:22i'm dan benjamin and john we'd like to
0:00:25say thanks to to two sponsors very
0:00:27quickly will tell you more about them
0:00:29later but the first one is sound studio
0:00:31for from felt-tip software and the
0:00:34second is worldview from campaign
0:00:36monitor we'll get to those during the
0:00:37show hi John hi Dan how are you just
0:00:41dandy
0:00:42great been a long week a lot of lot has
0:00:46happened yeah I think I've forgotten it
0:00:48all already but we don't need to talk
0:00:50about anything that's good
0:00:53when we need to talk about if people at
0:00:56last we show a very very speculative
0:00:58about what the third company is but
0:01:01before that there's follow-up there's a
0:01:03lot of follow-up there always is there's
0:01:06a good two three hours of follow-up well
0:01:09I'll try to do it fast as usual you
0:01:11ready yeah I'm ready I'm told I'm so
0:01:13ready alright so last week we were
0:01:16talking about criticism online and off
0:01:19more or less and I thought last week's
0:01:23show was kind of a microcosm of itself
0:01:25sort of in an inception kind of way
0:01:28because I started the show talking about
0:01:29how I had written this you know this
0:01:32blog post about criticism and how I
0:01:34tweeted about it and said something that
0:01:36I thought was silly and then some people
0:01:39took it seriously right and that was
0:01:42kind of like an example with this like a
0:01:43gap between like the intention of the
0:01:44person creating something and the
0:01:46audience's interpretation so that was
0:01:47just a tweet right well and last week's
0:01:49show we had one person who took ah you
0:01:54know interpreted what we said in a
0:01:55different way that then we definitely
0:01:57intended to be so I thought we'd address
0:01:59that now okay let's do it yeah so this
0:02:01was a I threw out a reference to an old
0:02:05SNL sketch about sexual harassment
0:02:06somewhere in the middle of last week's
0:02:08fun as yeah and see pop-culture
0:02:11references like that are kind of risky
0:02:12B's not ever
0:02:13room we'll get them right so not
0:02:15everyone has seen all the same TV shows
0:02:16as you and this was an old SNL clip if I
0:02:18remember it wasn't in 2005 or something
0:02:21it wasn't like a recent thing but either
0:02:24way usually when a pop culture reference
0:02:25doesn't land because people don't know
0:02:27what you're talking about that's not a
0:02:28big deal but in this case if you didn't
0:02:30catch the reference it sounded like the
0:02:32point I was making was exactly the
0:02:34opposite of the point down this way so
0:02:36in the show notes today I have a link to
0:02:37the actual Saturday Night Live sketch
0:02:39that I was referencing it was a joke
0:02:42corporate seminar film about sexual
0:02:44harassment um and one reader thought we
0:02:48were endorsing sexual harassment right
0:02:50work wait what are you endorsing it
0:02:52though no that is exactly the opposite
0:02:54and what I was doing it it's also the
0:02:56opposite of what this ayat live sketch
0:02:57is doing so if you go and look at the
0:03:00YouTube video alright so even now so now
0:03:02I've given you the context on the side
0:03:03on a live video and you're saying all
0:03:05clearly he endorses this video so if you
0:03:07go to the video and you look at the
0:03:09YouTube description a guy in the
0:03:11description also does not agree with me
0:03:14he's he's taking away from this this
0:03:16video that he has posted the exact
0:03:19opposite point that I took away from it
0:03:21so to further clarify lest you go to
0:03:23this video and read the description and
0:03:24say oh my god he agrees with the guy who
0:03:25posted this video I do not agree with
0:03:27the guy who posted that video he said
0:03:29what is that I think I would quote from
0:03:30in here yeah I'm not gonna quote him but
0:03:33he basically said that what makes
0:03:36something sexual harassment is the
0:03:37response of the person has to and again
0:03:40I think that is the exact opposite of
0:03:42the point of the sketch that the writers
0:03:44intended and certainly what I intended
0:03:46the point of the sketch as I see it is
0:03:48that the reception of your actions does
0:03:53not determine whether something is
0:03:55sexual harassment or not it's the
0:03:56actions themselves and I thought this
0:03:58was pretty clear because like at the end
0:04:00of the sketch they have the handsome guy
0:04:01Tom Brady was hosting the show he's the
0:04:03handsome guy walk up to Homans desk
0:04:05wearing his underwear and the woman's
0:04:07like oh hi how you doing she takes it
0:04:09just fine because he's handsome
0:04:10that's humors way of trying to tell you
0:04:12that that's actually not okay
0:04:14walking up to your desk in your
0:04:15underwear is not okay even if you're
0:04:17handsome and the fact that some people
0:04:18think it's okay that's the joke the joke
0:04:20is on them
0:04:21so now that I've sucked every ounce of
0:04:23humor out of that sketch by trying well
0:04:25why go watch it anyway go watch it is
0:04:27funny it's an oldie it's a goodie that's
0:04:29what I was referring to I'm not pro
0:04:31sexual harassment all right we got that
0:04:35out of the way I think I think so yeah I
0:04:38would get emails about how bad the skit
0:04:40actually was I thought it was anyway uh
0:04:44related to that is something I forgot to
0:04:46bring up and there's a lot of things
0:04:47that I forgot to bring up in the last
0:04:49show is that I listen to all of my own
0:04:53shows I know a lot of people over on
0:04:54podcast don't listen themselves there
0:04:57can't list themselves or find it painful
0:04:58you know but I listen to every single
0:05:01one the shows that I'm on and yes it is
0:05:04very painful to do that especially like
0:05:05in the beginning when you're not used to
0:05:07hearing your own voice and everything
0:05:08but eventually you get over that and
0:05:10just deal with the Kermit factor and
0:05:13just listen but the reason I'm listening
0:05:15is the same reason I talked about in
0:05:16last show that I want to hear what I'm
0:05:17doing wrong so that I can fix it and it
0:05:20doesn't mean that I'm fixing it every
0:05:22single time but it means that I'm gonna
0:05:24how do I know how I'm doing if I don't
0:05:26listen to myself you know what I mean
0:05:27and so in the course of listening to
0:05:29last week's show I saw that I misspoke
0:05:30like 50 different times like I called
0:05:32something Amazon App Engine when App
0:05:33Engine and obviously belongs to Google I
0:05:35say PowerBook all the time a lot of
0:05:37people do this but I mean you know these
0:05:39are also these are nitpicky things that
0:05:41aren't really worth right but this but
0:05:43well I think it's worthwhile because I
0:05:44want to listen oh you know I'm not gonna
0:05:46go into all my podcasting flaws but the
0:05:48only way you're gonna get better is to
0:05:49it's gonna have it you are right it's
0:05:52listen to what what it's like to listen
0:05:54to yourself and I do listen to a lot of
0:05:55podcast so I feel like I have a baseline
0:05:56level of you know what I'm supposed to
0:05:59be doing what I'm not supposed to be
0:06:00doing right and I guess if you really if
0:06:05it really bothers you to listen to
0:06:06yourself then then you know it's better
0:06:08for your not to but I feel like it's a
0:06:10big part of being able to improve it's
0:06:12it's like writing something and refusing
0:06:14to read what you write because you find
0:06:15it too embarrassing that's the time line
0:06:17you should read it now to learn from
0:06:19your mistakes all right um there's
0:06:24another whole thread for the criticism
0:06:26thing that I didn't get into I'll just
0:06:27try to go through it briefly and skip
0:06:29the rest of the follow up okay because I
0:06:31don't want to talk about microwave ovens
0:06:32you know I actually do oh you do all
0:06:36right well I'll try to do this fast
0:06:37enough so we can talk about microwave uh
0:06:39so
0:06:41one of the things about blogging online
0:06:43criticism that I wanted to talk about
0:06:45was the inclination of the author like
0:06:48given the same event what what is a
0:06:52somebody's reaction to it what are they
0:06:54what are they interested in writing
0:06:55about on their blog for example and your
0:06:59inclination your angle on stories will
0:07:02give you can give you a reputation like
0:07:04for example Gruber is the most obvious
0:07:06one where a lot of people label him as a
0:07:07fanboy mmm you've talked about out of
0:07:10this on the show with him it because his
0:07:11inclination is when something happens
0:07:15it's related to the things that he
0:07:16writes about he will look for he will
0:07:21criticize the people who are criticizing
0:07:23Apple basically so if you think
0:07:24something Apple is doing is good he will
0:07:27find the people who think that that same
0:07:28thing is bad and explain why they're
0:07:30wrong right I would say that's very
0:07:33accurate and there yet the Mac elope is
0:07:36like that to a Mac world the the
0:07:38ever-elusive Mac elope who has a column
0:07:39it is 100% like find the most ridiculous
0:07:42idiotic person who said the stupidest
0:07:44thing and just tear them apart Gruber's
0:07:46is less humor based more serious like
0:07:48he'll he'll talk about this you know
0:07:50he'll address the serious criticisms for
0:07:51people who are you know more versed in
0:07:54the field occasionally he'll pick on the
0:07:56idiots too um now I come up come at it
0:07:59from the other way most of the time if
0:08:01Apple does something I'm looking for
0:08:04what is it about what they did that's
0:08:05bad and then I will complain about that
0:08:08right now you would think this would
0:08:10this would line min bian Gruber up to be
0:08:13constantly at odds because if every time
0:08:15something happens I'm going to say
0:08:16what's wrong with what Apple did and
0:08:18he's going to criticize the people who
0:08:19are saying that Apple did something
0:08:21wrong but in reality we tend not to
0:08:22cross paths like that and it's it's know
0:08:24why is then it's mostly because if you
0:08:28were to talk to both of us about most
0:08:30issues I think we would probably agree
0:08:31it's just that he's concentrating on one
0:08:33side I'm concentrating on the other in
0:08:34most cases when he does link to me he'll
0:08:36agree with my criticism or maybe have
0:08:38one or two things to say with it say
0:08:40about it but what the end result for the
0:08:42reader is like oh Gruber's a fanboy and
0:08:43then I'm a hater right so everything you
0:08:45know you hate Apple you must be a PC you
0:08:47know I used to get that way back on a
0:08:48date I don't get it that much now I
0:08:49think people have figured out that I'm
0:08:51actually a Mac user but big time when I
0:08:53first started writing is that you've
0:08:54clearly
0:08:55never used in Agra for in your life and
0:08:56you must love ms-dos or and you know but
0:09:01in reality just two sides of the same
0:09:03coin you know where I'm you know what we
0:09:08choose to focus on doesn't mean that if
0:09:10you took those two pieces together like
0:09:11the things that he says that the apples
0:09:13doing good mostly I agree with and the
0:09:15things that I'm saying that apples doing
0:09:16is bad mostly he's agree he agrees but
0:09:18this is just where we decide to focus
0:09:19you know what I mean
0:09:20it's a you're almost saying it's it's
0:09:22sort of the same issues but you focus on
0:09:26them in a different way
0:09:27right and isn't you know he's picking on
0:09:31the criticisms that are stupid and I'm
0:09:32hoping that I'm given criticisms that
0:09:34are not stupid and the things that he's
0:09:36saying that are really good I'm not you
0:09:39know I'm not counteracting them I'm not
0:09:41I'm not saying that you know that he's
0:09:43wrong about that I just am not as
0:09:45interested in talking about what's good
0:09:46now occasionally if you look like my Mac
0:09:48os10 reviews I will go off and you know
0:09:50a couple paragraphs or page or two about
0:09:51something that's really good I do tend
0:09:54to do that it's just not my inclination
0:09:55you know it's not my inclination to say
0:09:57you know I guess I'm more into negative
0:09:59reinforcement than positive
0:10:00reinforcement and again this doesn't
0:10:01really apply in to people but the
0:10:03corporations into analysis of tech
0:10:05industry I think both approaches are
0:10:07perfectly valid and I think it's unfair
0:10:09that either one of us gets the labels
0:10:11that we tend to get that he gets labeled
0:10:12as a fanboy that I get labeled as a
0:10:14hater who just you know complains about
0:10:15everything right but it really just has
0:10:18to do with the part of the issue that we
0:10:21find interesting I like I read all the
0:10:23same things about people criticizing
0:10:24Apple and being stupid about it I'm just
0:10:26not interested as interested in
0:10:28explaining why they're stupid because
0:10:30for me it's kind of like well if you
0:10:32can't see that it's stupid yourself
0:10:33probably nothing I'm going to say is
0:10:34going to convince you when it's not
0:10:35worth my time to try to do so but other
0:10:37people make different value judgments
0:10:38about that and or they you know they
0:10:40find humor value in it or they can they
0:10:42can be funny while explaining why
0:10:44somebody is wrong right you know that's
0:10:48just different ways to look at the world
0:10:51I guess but but again I think it's
0:10:53ridiculous that people get put into
0:10:56little corners and given labels based on
0:10:59the aspect of issues they decide to look
0:11:00at and not based on like what their
0:11:02total opinion is like if you were to if
0:11:03someone who labels me a hater was to sit
0:11:05down and talk to me for five minutes
0:11:07that would realize that I love Apple and
0:11:08gives them
0:11:09so dollars and have wonderful things to
0:11:11say about lots of things that they do
0:11:12it's just not what I choose to write
0:11:14about most of the time right ah
0:11:18microwaves yes we'll skip over the rest
0:11:20of this and go right to microwaves what
0:11:22do you want to talk about about
0:11:22microwaves I have a lot of snippets here
0:11:24from feedback we've gotten well yeah I
0:11:26mean we got all that we got a lot of
0:11:27feedback surprisingly I think we got
0:11:29more feedback that in in in one way or
0:11:32another focus is on microwave so we
0:11:35might get it we might get something
0:11:37where the someone write in and say Oh
0:11:39John you're wrong about this but I agree
0:11:41with you about this and then at the end
0:11:42PS I live in X country in Europe and we
0:11:48have everybody I know has a microwave I
0:11:50have a microwave I've had one since I
0:11:52was in grad school and then for every
0:11:54one of those we get we'll get another
0:11:55one that says not only don't we have
0:11:57microwaves we don't have central heating
0:11:58in there that's a fair representation of
0:12:04it right yeah a lot of people were
0:12:06trying to gather up stats which I found
0:12:08useful but I don't really care that much
0:12:11about who has microwaves or don't you
0:12:14know especially since these stats are
0:12:16from different years and not really
0:12:17comparable to each other and stuff like
0:12:19that so it some of the information we
0:12:22got was basically the u.s. really does
0:12:24have a lot of microwaves per capita
0:12:25right and other other similar
0:12:28westernized countries have high
0:12:30percentages but slightly less yeah and
0:12:33of course we got you know your people
0:12:35coming in the people who are going to
0:12:36tell us that they have a different kind
0:12:38of eating style and diet plan and that's
0:12:39but what we do you know I mean we've to
0:12:43be completely honest we use being being
0:12:46on the kind of diet that we're on we use
0:12:48a microwave very in a very limited
0:12:50capacity and I realize most of what we
0:12:53use it for these days
0:12:54could prob we could probably do without
0:12:57it we could probably have no problem
0:12:58without a microwave at all these days
0:13:01the few years ago you know we were
0:13:03definitely heating up heating up stuff
0:13:05in there but what happens if you want to
0:13:07quickly steam some vegetables you just
0:13:09throw them in there it's convenient you
0:13:10know something like that but apparently
0:13:12that a lot of people are at they think
0:13:16of microwaves as being a distinctly
0:13:18American phenomenon even though they may
0:13:20exist
0:13:21some number in their country or in their
0:13:23their area or in their circle they think
0:13:27of it as being a very American thing and
0:13:30sort of typifies everything that's wrong
0:13:32with America the instant gratification
0:13:34the instant you know the ease of use the
0:13:38disposable philosophy that they perceive
0:13:42right perhaps correctly from many
0:13:44Americans to have and the poor quality
0:13:47of the food like processed for us to
0:13:48know that usually use what you're
0:13:50putting the microwave is some horrible
0:13:51you know not that necessarily has to be
0:13:53the case but it's associated with those
0:13:54actions that the worst processed foods
0:13:57and frozen foods you know you can heat
0:13:59them up in the microwave right that's
0:14:02not to say that that's what you know
0:14:03that's the only thing I microwave is
0:14:04good for you could use it to boil a cup
0:14:05of water so you know it's a versatile
0:14:07device but yeah I like that somebody I
0:14:10think somebody from hungry or something
0:14:11had noted that a lot of people in his
0:14:13country say that using a microwave is
0:14:15unhealthy because it damages the
0:14:17molecules and causes cancer right it's
0:14:18kind of like one of those things you get
0:14:19when it there's there any kind of new
0:14:21technology someone somewhere will become
0:14:23convinced that it's you know
0:14:24carcinogenic and you know some some
0:14:26reasonable centage of the time there
0:14:27right so that sort of reinforces the
0:14:28idea but yeah what it's interesting that
0:14:32when that type of thing can take hold in
0:14:34a widespread manner you know the way he
0:14:39was trying to express it here that he
0:14:40that this is you know not just one or
0:14:42two cooks but a lot of people actually
0:14:44believe this that damages the molecules
0:14:46and causes cancer because its uses
0:14:48radiation or whatever no matter what you
0:14:52no matter what new technology you have
0:14:54someone will believe that about it so we
0:14:56got that and we got some email from
0:14:57people who was this guy said he doesn't
0:14:59eat box foods planes' meals and the meal
0:15:01times are scheduled so that means you
0:15:02don't you don't need cooking time to be
0:15:04fast because if you know when you're
0:15:05gonna eat you just plan ahead of time
0:15:07and sure put things on the stove in the
0:15:08oven and a lot of European countries
0:15:10they get three four hours in the middle
0:15:12of the day for their lunch they only got
0:15:14that anymore they get you know three
0:15:16months vacation they get free health
0:15:19care it's always sunny it never rains
0:15:22it's always 72 degrees which is 18
0:15:25degrees Celsius or whatever and you know
0:15:29they live they all drive Lamborghinis
0:15:31you know that there
0:15:34their significant others are beautiful
0:15:36just like they are and there's no crime
0:15:39I mean that's that's pretty much
0:15:42everywhere except America is what our
0:15:44emails tell us and they don't use my
0:15:46clothes that's kind of one of those ways
0:15:48but you can hack your own life but if
0:15:50you get rid of a microwave you're
0:15:51removing the option for having food sort
0:15:54of in a rush on the go and that forces
0:15:55you to plan ahead yeah I could maybe
0:15:57make you slow your life down or whatever
0:15:59it's turning into a Marlin tip show but
0:16:01I would say I can't remember the last
0:16:03time that I that I heated like that like
0:16:06I'll put a meal into the microwave it's
0:16:09probably been years since I've done it
0:16:10but I'll tell you what it is it feels
0:16:12broccoli better than anything else I
0:16:14know of yeah but don't don't use it for
0:16:16reheating because I have tons of
0:16:17leftovers and is great for reheat orbit
0:16:20doll hands it depends like I don't like
0:16:21to taste a chicken out of a microwave if
0:16:24it's reheated I'll use a toaster oven we
0:16:26actually do a heck of a lot of reheating
0:16:29in a toaster oven it means that I need
0:16:32to put that on topic list the why I hate
0:16:33all toasters but yeah toaster for
0:16:35anything that needs to be crisp all I'd
0:16:36love to talk to you about a toaster oven
0:16:37on a show we could do I could do I could
0:16:40talk hours about toasters that's a whole
0:16:42show but I think it will be I think
0:16:44it'll be our best show but our best show
0:16:47Y all toasters are horrible
0:16:48then might have to do a series on then
0:16:52it's not some we want to try and squeeze
0:16:54into just one show we can be done with
0:16:56the follow-up now if you want I will
0:16:58have that letter skipped but that's
0:17:00weaker cuz we have a really great topic
0:17:02yes really excited about this one and by
0:17:05the way we just want to mention that it
0:17:06is opening day in the major league
0:17:09baseball world today you didn't mention
0:17:12that I don't care I know your big fan
0:17:14not a big fan but insofar as I am a fan
0:17:17I am a Yankees fan just to put that out
0:17:21there it doesn't let's get some let's
0:17:22get some more hey well you will I'm a
0:17:25Phillies fan like all all good Americans
0:17:27should be mm-hmm all right you ready for
0:17:32the main topic ready hit me wait before
0:17:35we say it let's do it let's do a sponsor
0:17:37all right we actually we have a couple
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0:18:45looking for the you know alright so
0:18:46sounded at 16 is old what is it that
0:18:49replaces it yeah I want a thing that
0:18:50shows me the sound and I chop it up with
0:18:52a little cursor and you know like I had
0:18:54basic needs and it took a long time on a
0:18:55Mac os10 error before I found sound
0:18:58studio yeah you don't you don't need to
0:18:59be a genius or go to a class at the
0:19:02Apple store to figure out how to use it
0:19:03you can just launch it and record
0:19:05something and edit it and hit delete and
0:19:08hit save and it works yep
0:19:10and OGG Vorbis I know it's big for you
0:19:12you know you're miss categorizing your
0:19:14like if you're gonna make fun of me for
0:19:16being nerdy you got to figure out what
0:19:17I'm nerdy about that's like a sort of a
0:19:19you know free software neckbeard kind of
0:19:21thing I don't think I've ever even had
0:19:23an OGG Vorbis file on my hard drive
0:19:26alone let alone playable funny it's
0:19:28funnier that way no it would be funnier
0:19:31if you did like DRM encrypted AAC files
0:19:33like all my audio has fair play and you
0:19:36still haven't talked about he's a
0:19:37crapple fanboy he's still I haven't
0:19:39talked about I encrypt yeah I'm not well
0:19:42this they always gets kicked off the
0:19:43follow up you know wait until at the
0:19:46lines released and we can have a whole
0:19:47show on ink written so this show though
0:19:50now the big reveal 20 minutes in what
0:19:53are we talking about today so last week
0:19:55when we were going through the topic
0:19:57list in the end the tail end of the show
0:19:59you were looking at these three ones
0:20:01that I recently
0:20:02added that sort of fit the format of
0:20:04what's wrong with blank we're blank is
0:20:05some well-known company yeah and since I
0:20:08didn't think single one of those
0:20:10companies I had enough to say about to
0:20:11fill I'll show we're going to do three
0:20:12of them today and I'll try to get
0:20:13through them quickly and what's wrong
0:20:16with like exactly there's lots of things
0:20:17wrong with everything right so we're
0:20:18trying to look for the most significant
0:20:20challenge that these companies have and
0:20:22I don't think the things I'm going to
0:20:23pick are particularly like people going
0:20:26to be blown away fry them because no one
0:20:27ever thought and they're the obvious
0:20:29things that are wrong with these
0:20:30companies but I think it's worth talking
0:20:32about like the biggest challenges of
0:20:33these of these well-known companies
0:20:35because the discussion will be
0:20:36interesting if not the you know oh my
0:20:38god this is amazing inside that this is
0:20:39what's wrong with this company and in
0:20:42that spirit I'm going to let you as
0:20:43usual
0:20:45try to guess what you think the most
0:20:47significant challenge what I'm going to
0:20:48say is the most significant challenge of
0:20:50these companies so we're gonna start
0:20:51with Google mmm like this is a pretty
0:20:53easy one what do you think you can give
0:20:57your opinion or you can try to guess
0:20:58what I'm going to say what is the most
0:20:59significant challenge to to Google as a
0:21:01company at this point when you say
0:21:04challenge you mean the thing that they
0:21:05need to do well it's like what's wrong
0:21:08with them like what's wrong with are
0:21:09they doing everything perfectly do they
0:21:11have some sort of problem what's wrong
0:21:12with all these things what's wrong with
0:21:14the company if you have to pick one
0:21:16thing and get these are all companies
0:21:17that are massively successful that are
0:21:18really awesome companies that you know
0:21:20are by any standard doing almost almost
0:21:23everything right and that's why it's
0:21:24interesting to find the one or two
0:21:25things that they're doing wrong you know
0:21:27I don't think it's possible for me to
0:21:29guess what you're going to say so I want
0:21:31you just give your own opinion I'll give
0:21:32my own opinion of what I think it the
0:21:35thing that strikes me as being the most
0:21:38wrong with Google is that I I don't ever
0:21:41feel like they have a single focus or a
0:21:46single track that unifies all of the
0:21:48different projects products and and
0:21:50focuses that they they need a focus if
0:21:52you look at what Apple is doing as a
0:21:55company that has a supremely sharp focus
0:21:57and compare that to what Google is doing
0:21:59Google has so many different things
0:22:02going on and it seems to me that that
0:22:05they suffer because of that they're sort
0:22:07of if you ever heard the term monkey
0:22:09mind how about that term it's a great we
0:22:12could talk about that at some point
0:22:14monkey mind is if you mad
0:22:15little monkey running around in a jungle
0:22:19somewhere he runs over he looks at the
0:22:21ants running around then he goes over
0:22:22climbed up the tree bounces off the tree
0:22:24jumps onto the other tree jumps off his
0:22:25brother's back does a backflip rolls
0:22:27around on the ground looks at the ants
0:22:29again grab some seeds from a tree and
0:22:31can't get his hand out of the tree drops
0:22:32isn't you know this is that this is the
0:22:35thing that a monkey does he's never he's
0:22:38never focused and because he's never
0:22:41focused these things that they do they
0:22:43can they can be successful like Google's
0:22:45have been successful but they also have
0:22:47these very strange and and in some cases
0:22:50huge missteps these huge mistakes that
0:22:53they make and it doesn't seem like they
0:22:55have a single unified vision so that
0:22:57would mean what I say is that what do
0:22:59you say so that's it's interesting that
0:23:01what you ended up talking about is what
0:23:04I'm going to end up talking about too
0:23:05but coming at it from entirely different
0:23:06directions so I'm going to start with
0:23:08what I think most people would say if
0:23:11you especially were talking to a
0:23:12business analyst on the business side
0:23:14would is wrong with Google and it
0:23:16actually went around the web you know
0:23:19like last week or so it's being passed
0:23:20around the blogs and the shownotes link
0:23:23that link to Gruber's link to the this
0:23:25story in the New York Times and a
0:23:28business analyst would say that what's
0:23:29wrong with Google is that if you look at
0:23:30its balance sheet you'll see that it
0:23:31derives 96% of its revenue from
0:23:33advertising and just on a plain business
0:23:36percentage like oh that's not
0:23:37diversified enough like you're putting
0:23:38all your eggs in one basket even though
0:23:40you have all these different things that
0:23:41you do it like so your your a complaint
0:23:43was that they're too scattered and not
0:23:44focused on anything right and then this
0:23:46complaining the other side is on the
0:23:47business side that they're too focused
0:23:48on one count sheet yeah their balance
0:23:50sheet is is not diversified enough
0:23:52they're making all their money from one
0:23:53thing and that makes them vulnerable
0:23:54extremely vulnerable to any sort of
0:23:56perturbance in the advertising world
0:23:58right but I'm not going to say that's
0:24:01the the thing that's not the root
0:24:03problem that's like a symptom and the
0:24:05reason for that is if you think about
0:24:06Apple if you try to apply the same
0:24:08yardstick to them they're their income
0:24:11looks diversified if you chop it up by
0:24:12product fine but if you just look at it
0:24:14in terms of like how they make their
0:24:16money they make all right similar
0:24:17percentage like not as high as 96 but
0:24:19like 90 percent they make from hardware
0:24:21no one really categorizing hardware and
0:24:23then software and other services they
0:24:24make about 90 percent of their of their
0:24:26revenue from hardware oh they're not
0:24:27diversified well you say they have seven
0:24:28different hardware
0:24:29they're very diversified of iPods iPhone
0:24:32even distribution that they can
0:24:34introduce new product lines all the time
0:24:35and those quickly grow to become
0:24:36significant revenue sources so it shows
0:24:38they're not vulnerable to for example
0:24:39weakness in the mp3 player Margaret if
0:24:42they just had the iPod that market has
0:24:44sort of gone down in terms of you know
0:24:46its importance its growth is as
0:24:48stagnated and the margins are not as big
0:24:51as they used to be right but they
0:24:53diversify but it's still hardware and if
0:24:55you said the same thing about Google you
0:24:56make 90 percent 96 percent from
0:24:58advertising I said well this all sorts
0:24:59of ads those mobile ads and people's
0:25:01phones there's ads and search results
0:25:02there's ads on the products that we have
0:25:04you know on the sidebar of all of our
0:25:06popular products and stuff like that so
0:25:07I think the too much of your revenue
0:25:10from one source thing is a red herring
0:25:12because Google would just use the same
0:25:15argument that Apple does to say that
0:25:16actually are reasonably diversified and
0:25:18I think advertising and hardware are
0:25:20just too vague terms to say that you're
0:25:21not diversified without any more details
0:25:23but the real problem I think is related
0:25:25to not not that they have so much of
0:25:28their money coming from one thing but
0:25:30what that one thing is and since the one
0:25:33thing is advertising I think they're the
0:25:34REIT problem the root problem is they
0:25:36have too few customers and that sounds
0:25:40silly very you know everybody uses
0:25:41Google and it seems like they have you
0:25:43know so what do you mean qualify matters
0:25:44what do you mean to to you but but
0:25:46customers you know the people who are
0:25:47using search are not the customer to see
0:25:50old cliche I have no idea who said this
0:25:52and I tried to look it up and could not
0:25:53track to the origin but basically if
0:25:55you're not paying for it then you're the
0:25:56product all right so everyone is using
0:25:58Google for search they are not Google's
0:26:01customers schools customers are the
0:26:02advertisers and there aren't that many
0:26:04advertisers in the world compared to the
0:26:06number of people in the world that kind
0:26:07of makes sense like if there was you
0:26:08know 90% of the world where advertisers
0:26:10who would they be advertising to there
0:26:12is a limited number of people who have
0:26:13goods and services to advertise and they
0:26:15want to advertise them to millions and
0:26:17millions of people so Google's actual
0:26:19customers the people who pay Google
0:26:21money are advertisers and they're not
0:26:23there aren't a lot of them now let's
0:26:26compare that the Apple where Apple's
0:26:28customers are the customers they want to
0:26:30make you know a little hardware widget
0:26:32they can sell you and they want to make
0:26:34it appealing to the customer and the
0:26:35customer gives the money directly it's a
0:26:36direct relationship between the person
0:26:38with the money gives them gives Apple
0:26:40the money and they get the piece of
0:26:41hardware and Apple makes you know 90% of
0:26:42its money from that hard
0:26:43type of thing oh and but Google on the
0:26:47other hand is motivated many things the
0:26:48advertisers like because what happens to
0:26:51them is advertisers hand them money and
0:26:53they hand the advertisers an opportunity
0:26:55to sell their goods in a way that they
0:26:56like now obviously advertisers like lots
0:26:58of customers so there's an indirect link
0:27:00to making customers happy but it's kind
0:27:02of like advertisers give us the money
0:27:04and in exchange we give the advertisers
0:27:06what they want and what they want is
0:27:07access to a lot of customers therefore
0:27:08we have to make something that a lot of
0:27:09customers will use therefore we make
0:27:10something the customers like mmm that is
0:27:12a much more indirect link then Apple has
0:27:15to make a piece of art where that a
0:27:16customer is going to give them money for
0:27:17you know and this makes me think that
0:27:21has something to do with why so many
0:27:22Google products fail this is the monkey
0:27:24mind thing I guess where they make you
0:27:25know all sorts of little things they
0:27:27make wave to make Orkut they make buzz
0:27:28Google Google Buzz I mean they're doing
0:27:31all sorts of things all over the place
0:27:33right you know but their batting average
0:27:36is not great when they have hits they
0:27:38have hits with it but they're you know
0:27:39the bad average is not that good
0:27:41certainly not as good as Apple's where
0:27:43when Apple comes up with something
0:27:44significant it's a big story if it fails
0:27:45so Google's just doing you know going in
0:27:47a million directions at once I mean just
0:27:49I can't even just try think of all the
0:27:50things that Google is doing with like
0:27:51scanning books and so not every our
0:27:54self-driving cars is an example but that
0:27:56you know everything that they're doing
0:27:58there and you know I mean I understand
0:28:00they've got more money than most other
0:28:01companies do so why not invest a little
0:28:04bit of that into many different areas
0:28:06but even in the areas that we know that
0:28:09they focus on like for example web
0:28:11applications in that in that web
0:28:13application space they still have a lot
0:28:15of you know they've got a couple big
0:28:17home runs
0:28:18like for example search and Mail but
0:28:21they've had a whole lot of fouls are
0:28:25mediocre things like Google Apps and
0:28:26stuff like that yeah and the thing is I
0:28:29think the reason that comes is because
0:28:30Google's expertise is not in building
0:28:32products that consumers like Google's
0:28:34expertise seems to be in monetizing its
0:28:38hits all right so they make tons and
0:28:40tons of products for consumers but
0:28:41they're not great at it so their average
0:28:42is not good but when they get a hit boy
0:28:44they really good at monitoring that
0:28:46thing and making money off of it by
0:28:48selling access to it to advertisers
0:28:50right and so
0:28:54I think that is that sort of encapsulate
0:28:58why Google acts the way it does why they
0:29:02seem to be monkey minded why the fact
0:29:05that they're driving all the revenue
0:29:07from advertising is bad it's not because
0:29:09it's it's not diversified it's because
0:29:10being in the advertising business is is
0:29:15you know it's a bad relationship with
0:29:18consumers now obviously it's maybe it's
0:29:20a good relationship with advertisers if
0:29:21I was an advertiser I'd be say this is
0:29:23not a problem for Google and maybe
0:29:24someone has to serve the advertising
0:29:25community but what it leaves the Google
0:29:27vulnerable to is someone who's better at
0:29:29making the same kind of services eating
0:29:31their lunch by making a service that
0:29:33people like better than Gmail for
0:29:34example and finding some way to get
0:29:36money from customers for it now again
0:29:38that's that's a challenge I mean when we
0:29:40talk about Apple in the online world we
0:29:42talked about how it's really hard to get
0:29:45money directly from consumers for things
0:29:46that you do online it's possible but
0:29:48people haven't really cracked that code
0:29:49yet maybe it has to be a cultural change
0:29:50or you know a some change in
0:29:53expectations of the consumers so for now
0:29:55Google is the king but I would say that
0:29:57the fact that it has so few actual
0:29:59customers leaves it a possibility of
0:30:03being held captive by those customers
0:30:05that they spend too much time serving
0:30:07the advertisers and not enough time
0:30:08serving the consumers because that's
0:30:10just a second level concern hmm so
0:30:15that's Google Facebook yeah I didn't
0:30:19Facebook this is an interesting one
0:30:23because if you ask people they think is
0:30:24wrong with Google maybe they'll come up
0:30:27with like the privacy advertising stuff
0:30:29maybe if they're in the business I'll
0:30:31talk about the revenue but Facebook
0:30:32people a lot tons of complaints about oh
0:30:34yeah have that have little to do with I
0:30:36think the company and more to do with
0:30:37when something is popular everyone's got
0:30:39some complaint of that no well that what
0:30:42would be some of the big complaints
0:30:44you'd expect to hear about Facebook
0:30:45obviously privacy is one of them I
0:30:47wouldn't even go with I said the first
0:30:49one would be for like user two off the
0:30:51street that that they're annoyed by
0:30:52something in Facebook and God knows what
0:30:54it would be the like they don't like how
0:30:55that you change the redesign they don't
0:30:57like how you can't reply to this thing
0:30:58or how someone can delete your comments
0:31:00or how you can't delete that like little
0:31:02petty things that really aren't what's
0:31:03wrong with the company but just but from
0:31:05the fact that if once you have millions
0:31:06and millions of people you
0:31:07do something everyone's going to have a
0:31:08complaint about it's kind of like back
0:31:09in the days of Windows when everyone had
0:31:11to complain about Windows because
0:31:12everyone had to use Windows and yes
0:31:13Windows was you know not great do you
0:31:15use Facebook I I signed up for Facebook
0:31:19way back when so you have an account you
0:31:21just don't use it I just do not use it
0:31:23which is bad because a lot of people who
0:31:24do use it you know or sending me things
0:31:26and then getting upset because I'm not
0:31:27replying but I log onto Facebook maybe
0:31:29once a month you know quickly retreat so
0:31:34the way I think I'm going to come at
0:31:35this Facebook thing is to do one of the
0:31:38nother one of those let's go back in
0:31:39time type of things and try to compare
0:31:42Facebook to some similar phenomenon so
0:31:47let's talk about the history of PCs very
0:31:50briefly so way back when you know nobody
0:31:53had no know individuals had computers
0:31:55and then the personal computer stuff
0:31:57started to happen and very in the in
0:32:00those early days you had a lot of
0:32:01different competitors sort of jockeying
0:32:02for position like you had things that
0:32:04probably young people have never heard
0:32:06of today but it was the homebrew thing
0:32:08where you try to make your own computer
0:32:09and there was the Altair and the helmet
0:32:11or Texas Instruments Tandy RadioShack
0:32:14used to have make computers you know
0:32:15there was Atari all sorts of things sort
0:32:17of jockeying for position in like you
0:32:18know now we're the king well now I hear
0:32:19there's a great new you know Commodore
0:32:21pet coming out but then the Tandy's is a
0:32:23contender to write lots of Trading
0:32:26Places lots of you know activity going
0:32:27on there but very few people had
0:32:29computers that stage and when you were
0:32:31like the winner like you had the best
0:32:33computer though you know what was it
0:32:35called was a context back then whatever
0:32:37whatever the you know the west coast
0:32:38computer fair with an e at the end you
0:32:42you had the best-in-show but you didn't
0:32:43really win much like you got you got the
0:32:45biggest slice of what was a really
0:32:46really tiny pie so there was lots of
0:32:48motion back then you know in any sort of
0:32:50early industry expected before there's
0:32:52any sort of consult consolidation and
0:32:54then you had sort of like the maturing
0:32:56of the personal computer you had the
0:32:57Apple 2 versus the IBM PC eventually the
0:32:59the Mac and that was kind of like where
0:33:02the bend in the hockey stick was you
0:33:03know in the graph where you went from
0:33:07really nobody has computers and nobody
0:33:09really cares who had the best you know
0:33:10computer this year because who the heck
0:33:12what kind of person owns a computer in
0:33:14their house anyway just you know super
0:33:15nerds right to the point where now at
0:33:18least people were going to have
0:33:19computers at work and they were thinking
0:33:20about getting one for the
0:33:21home it's it's really you know where
0:33:23that where that line kinked and
0:33:26unfortunately for many people but
0:33:28fortunately for Microsoft they were the
0:33:30one who just happened to be on top at
0:33:31that crucial point when the line kinked
0:33:34right so they didn't just get the
0:33:35biggest piece of a tiny pie they got the
0:33:37biggest piece of a pie that was growing
0:33:38humongously and the network effect
0:33:40kicked in for them and you know when
0:33:43when you know when everyone you know has
0:33:45a IBM pc-compatible thing we're going to
0:33:47put aside the part of IBM dropping the
0:33:50ball by giving Microsoft the license for
0:33:52the software so they realized everyone
0:33:53else but we just say Microsoft / IBM bc1
0:33:57because as soon as that network effect
0:33:59kicked in
0:33:59they were the winner at that particular
0:34:01point and then their lead became
0:34:02insurmountable simply because of the
0:34:04growth of the market now if we look at
0:34:08getting closer to Facebook now we'll
0:34:09creep up on it social networking type
0:34:12services had a similar sort of history
0:34:16so in the beginning you had things like
0:34:17BBS's that you would dial into and
0:34:19connect to a modem when you had Lister
0:34:21and then you have stuff like Jeannie and
0:34:23CompuServe prodigy like everyone had
0:34:25some sort of online thing it wasn't the
0:34:27Internet it was this place you connected
0:34:29to usually through a phone modem and
0:34:30there was but it was a social network
0:34:31you could see other people you could
0:34:33mail back and forth they had chat rooms
0:34:34there were you know topics of interest
0:34:36little groups where you could talk about
0:34:37things that you know people are
0:34:39interested in you know different subject
0:34:43matter divisions right but again
0:34:45the winners of this these stages didn't
0:34:47really win much like just because
0:34:49CompuServe at you know trounced prodigy
0:34:52and Jeannie they got the biggest slice
0:34:54of a very very tiny pie of people who
0:34:57had modems in their house and were
0:34:58willing to get their loans on that lying
0:35:00to it and everything and this is
0:35:02interesting partner then AOL came along
0:35:04right an AOL came at the time where the
0:35:09people online graph was kinking and
0:35:11doing that hockey stick thing right and
0:35:14then all of a sudden the AOL diss for
0:35:16everywhere and now you know your mom is
0:35:18online everybody is online it's like
0:35:20this is this is that moment when that
0:35:22everything takes off you know surely AOL
0:35:24will rule forever all right uh but and
0:35:27I'm sure IOL thought that too no yeah
0:35:29but then the line kinked again because
0:35:31people didn't realize exactly how
0:35:32vertical the slope of this graphic again
0:35:35again with the internet it's like AOL
0:35:37that everyone's on AOL yeah but only the
0:35:38Nerds are online at all you know there's
0:35:40parents that are his relatives and it
0:35:42wasn't that you know once the internet
0:35:43came then it was like no seriously
0:35:46everybody everybody's going to be on and
0:35:49AOL wasn't ready for that because they
0:35:50had built their empire on the we are our
0:35:53own online service and we'll build a
0:35:55gateway to the internet for you or
0:35:56whatever and they they they got run over
0:35:58by by the internet basically and then
0:36:01within the realm of the internet was
0:36:02like let's start all right start over
0:36:04new game new game guys forget about that
0:36:05of this stuff AOL just got trounced the
0:36:07internet is common run steamrolled
0:36:08everybody but now within the internet
0:36:10let's see what we can do for this you
0:36:12know social networking society thing so
0:36:14like geo cities or you could build your
0:36:16own page and Friendster and LinkedIn and
0:36:18Orkut and all sorts of stuff like that
0:36:20where everyone was trying to build the
0:36:21new social network on the new playing
0:36:23field where there's just where the
0:36:24stakes are much much higher because
0:36:25everybody is in the internet the entire
0:36:26world right so a lot of those were to
0:36:29narrow like Flickr and stuff was never
0:36:31going to be the dominant social network
0:36:33just because it was focused on photos
0:36:35sorry and some things like Google's
0:36:37Orkut another example of Google kind of
0:36:39dropping the ball there they just I
0:36:40don't know what happens I wanted just
0:36:41spawn off into left field now is just
0:36:43all Brazilians on it or something I
0:36:44forget right what countries orchid is
0:36:46popular in it but it's massively popular
0:36:47new countries but worldwide not so by
0:36:50prinster that's a sad story you know we
0:36:52all know what happened to them LinkedIn
0:36:53is still around but it's more focused on
0:36:55business you know when myspace came
0:36:58along it was kind of the like
0:37:01general-purpose social network it was
0:37:04just a little tiny bit early right just
0:37:07a little little tiny bit early in the
0:37:09game so everyone was rushing to MySpace
0:37:11and but it had the kind of that music
0:37:12focus come look at my band's page and
0:37:14stuff like that yeah I spaced pages and
0:37:16I think the attraction to all these
0:37:18things in the social network was let you
0:37:19communicate with people online without
0:37:21having technical expertise like that's
0:37:23that's the pitch because everyone wants
0:37:24to do stuff online they want to show
0:37:26people pictures of their kids or talk to
0:37:27their friends or whatever it is they
0:37:28want to do but they don't have to know
0:37:31anything about you know technology to do
0:37:33it they just want to click some buttons
0:37:34and just share with people the same way
0:37:35you have social interactions in real
0:37:36life you know so my spikes let people do
0:37:39that but Facebook was you know right
0:37:42there with them a little bit behind and
0:37:44it was Facebook was slightly nicer than
0:37:46MySpace like not as ugly not as many
0:37:48flash
0:37:48GGO city's looking the place add more
0:37:51controlled growth because it was like
0:37:52confined to college students first and
0:37:54like slowly rolled out across the
0:37:55country and that that sort of built
0:37:57cachet for the service and it was just
0:38:00perfectly timed for like the myspace
0:38:02backlash when people were kind of sick
0:38:03of my space when it's like everyone's
0:38:05got a myspace page real Annoying and I
0:38:07go there and there's animated stuff in
0:38:09the background and I don't care about
0:38:10your stupid band and I just want to
0:38:12share photos with people and myspace
0:38:14doesn't have enough features for yet to
0:38:16let me do that and you know and Facebook
0:38:18said we're the kind of a gentler
0:38:20alternative that come over to us and and
0:38:22they were a little bit later and and
0:38:23that you know that was the the final
0:38:26kink where everyone is online and like I
0:38:29mean look at Facebook's numbers nothing
0:38:30they like 500 million people
0:38:33150 million people in the u.s. that's
0:38:35that's about half the u.s. population
0:38:36and it's the majority of like the
0:38:39eligible population like if you think
0:38:41about a baby's heart on Facebook and I
0:38:42think you're not assignable if you're
0:38:44not thirteen years old or something but
0:38:46Facebook's the victory sort of like
0:38:48Microsoft's was they got the biggest
0:38:50piece of a just humongous pie and the
0:38:53pie is not going to get any bigger
0:38:54really you know in the u.s. because once
0:38:56you've gotten more once you go over more
0:38:58than half of the adult population is on
0:39:00Facebook everything else is just you
0:39:02know icing on top of that you've won
0:39:04more or less I don't think they should
0:39:05be afraid there's another kink coming
0:39:08but the upshot of all these victories
0:39:10here is that the bad things about the
0:39:13victors become sort of entrenched aren't
0:39:16enshrined in the and it businesses
0:39:18themselves so if you think about
0:39:19Microsoft like they won the battle for
0:39:22the desktop they were everywhere right
0:39:23but every bad thing about Microsoft was
0:39:26now like made official
0:39:27so hey so if they have any problems
0:39:30their victim of their own success you
0:39:32know so the windows everywhere was their
0:39:34strategy and then you know serve them so
0:39:36well they got windows to go everywhere
0:39:38all right but windows everywhere is not
0:39:41a good strategy when the internet comes
0:39:42along hmm
0:39:43we're gonna make the Internet run on
0:39:44Windows and we'll use Windows Server as
0:39:46well servers haven't really been our
0:39:47strengths and I don't know how come the
0:39:49internet really doesn't seem to need
0:39:50Windows but no no windows everywhere
0:39:53kind of mostly miss the the internet
0:39:55revolution there hi and the same thing
0:39:58with mobile like mobile that I think
0:39:59Mobile is a next big thing well can we
0:40:01do Windows
0:40:02mobile I guess we can make Windows we
0:40:03have Windows on tablets we have Windows
0:40:05CE II for consumer electronics but you
0:40:07know Windows Mobile C it's right in the
0:40:09name Windows Mobile how about about
0:40:11Windows Phone no they and it does it's
0:40:14not even a technology thing it's just a
0:40:15mindset where like they're their
0:40:18platforms that they built it serve them
0:40:19so well the windows API win32 getting
0:40:22all those developers and everything like
0:40:23that it just they couldn't apply that
0:40:25same stuff to the mobile space as well
0:40:27and you know they just couldn't get over
0:40:31the hump maybe they will in the mobile
0:40:32and Windows Phone we'll see how that
0:40:33turns out but so far it's not going that
0:40:35well and also their enterprise
0:40:36entanglements like so I like to call
0:40:38when you when you have lots of demanding
0:40:40customers like all these companies that
0:40:41have Windows PCs on their desks they
0:40:43dictate to Microsoft more or less that
0:40:44you know you can't change too much too
0:40:46fast hmm and sometimes changing too much
0:40:48too fast is what you need to do to get
0:40:50on to the next big thing so this is a
0:40:52fit you know Microsoft became ossified
0:40:53and it's in its desktop victory state
0:40:57now in Facebook's case this is another
0:41:02complaint that you'd hear from nerds
0:41:03about Facebook is that is that it's too
0:41:05insular that it's not really a
0:41:06participant in the web you know what I
0:41:08mean it's kind of like an AOL where like
0:41:09you go into Facebook and when you're in
0:41:11Facebook there's a bunch of stuff in
0:41:13that world but the outside web is a
0:41:16foreign thing so you don't see lots of
0:41:17deep links into Facebook right because
0:41:19you can't see this person's page unless
0:41:20you're a friend of them so why bother
0:41:21giving a link it's like a separate thing
0:41:24it's kind of like going into AOL where
0:41:26you log in day oh well this is world of
0:41:27keywords and these special things and
0:41:29whatever they're doing and then there's
0:41:30the outside web well in the web itself
0:41:32there's the web and then there's
0:41:33Facebook which is other little island
0:41:34that you're going into all right I don't
0:41:38know if that's going to be a long-term
0:41:40problem so far it hasn't but it
0:41:42definitely sort of defines what they're
0:41:43doing you know like that's what Facebook
0:41:46is like and if that ever becomes a real
0:41:48problem for them I'm not sure they can
0:41:50turn turn that ship fast enough to say
0:41:52no no seriously we're a good web citizen
0:41:54we have you know permanent URLs and
0:41:56everything you know your data is not
0:41:58just our data it's your data and you can
0:42:00see your Facebook comment anywhere for
0:42:02forever and you can search on it and so
0:42:03on and so forth versus once you're
0:42:05inside our walled garden you just do
0:42:07whatever you do and we own all your data
0:42:08hmm and and you can't get to it from the
0:42:10outside and the other thing is that
0:42:13they're free so we've got the same
0:42:14situation as Google where the users
0:42:16the product there and they're selling
0:42:17they're making money somehow but it's
0:42:18not from the users people aren't paying
0:42:20to use Facebook and again so far that
0:42:21hasn't been a problem for online things
0:42:23in fact that seems to be the only way to
0:42:24go from mass-market online things but if
0:42:26it does become a problem they're going
0:42:29to be in the same situation as Google
0:42:30where their their customers are not the
0:42:33customers and if someone figures out how
0:42:35to make the customers the customers
0:42:37they're vulnerable to that now what does
0:42:40Facebook vulnerable to they vulnerable
0:42:42to a Netscape type of situation like
0:42:44Netscape came along and Microsoft
0:42:45freaked out and had that internet tidal
0:42:46wave memo and all sorts stuff yeah and
0:42:48and they put down Netscape you know they
0:42:50they think they put it out of its misery
0:42:52they rose to that challenge that you
0:42:54know panic scrambled and then they got
0:42:56rid of Netscape more or less Internet
0:42:58Explorer triumph right so maybe Facebook
0:43:00and can fight off some challengers like
0:43:02that but eventually you know they get
0:43:05you right so when Google came along
0:43:07Microsoft really had no answer to that
0:43:09all right and when Facebook faces it's
0:43:11Google maybe when it faces its Netscape
0:43:14it might be able to to be nimble about
0:43:16it but when it faces its Google perhaps
0:43:17not
0:43:18and that's basically like I had the boil
0:43:21down I would say that Facebook just
0:43:22doesn't seem nimble all right it seems
0:43:25even less nimble than Microsoft was
0:43:26because Microsoft for all of its
0:43:28problems was willing to at least try to
0:43:31do what it takes when the internet came
0:43:33along they tried to turn the whole
0:43:34company as fast as they could and again
0:43:35a reasonable job of it and the same
0:43:37thing with mobile they're trying to do
0:43:39that now and I did like Facebook you see
0:43:42all these complaints about Facebook but
0:43:44they don't seem to change direction in
0:43:46response to the complaints maybe the
0:43:47thing they don't have - maybe they going
0:43:48in the right direction already but they
0:43:49just don't seem like if they had any
0:43:52sort of serious challenger they would be
0:43:54able to change direction now just like
0:43:55Microsoft there was no one was going to
0:43:57dethrone Microsoft from the desktop
0:43:58right but that wasn't the challenge that
0:44:02it had to be worded it had to be worried
0:44:03about when it didn't matter that you
0:44:04owned the desktop and then what do you
0:44:05do so eventually this is this this is
0:44:08the proper haps the weakest complained
0:44:10about any couple maybe until the next
0:44:11one eventually Facebook will say we are
0:44:13the victors of social networking but
0:44:14then social networking won't matter in
0:44:16something else will Twitter kind of
0:44:18looks a little bit like a Netscape to me
0:44:20or there like a challenger to Facebook
0:44:24because they're a different thing but
0:44:25they're they're not playing the same
0:44:26game as Facebook all right
0:44:28maybe they are Google too I
0:44:30so far I think Facebook tried to buy
0:44:32them once but so far twitter hasn't been
0:44:34a problem but when when when Facebook's
0:44:36Google does come along I have little
0:44:38faith that the company is going to be
0:44:39nimble enough to turn their little
0:44:41walled garden everything is free
0:44:43advertisers pay us to get access to our
0:44:45users information business model is
0:44:47going to survive so that's Facebook
0:44:53already problem until how long will that
0:44:55take
0:44:55I don't know it's like Microsoft had
0:44:59quite a rain didn't they it was like you
0:45:00know 10 years a long time right so long
0:45:03so long that it was almost unimaginable
0:45:05that they wouldn't be where they are
0:45:08yeah and that's that's the network
0:45:10effect like when you build up that many
0:45:11people when the majority of eligible
0:45:13people in the United States are using
0:45:15your service no challenge was going to
0:45:17come from behind right it swamp you in
0:45:20some massive victory what's going to
0:45:21happen is that your victory will not
0:45:23will become less important and that the
0:45:25game will change and the game will be
0:45:27someplace else and no one will care that
0:45:29everyone is on Facebook right so I think
0:45:32that's what will happen some someone
0:45:34will eventually come up with something
0:45:36that's better than Facebook enough and
0:45:38different enough that people start using
0:45:40that and just slowly realize that
0:45:42they've stopped using Facebook because
0:45:43they're using this new thing but that
0:45:45could be a while now the third one you
0:45:49didn't say in the last episode what the
0:45:51third company was now I know what it is
0:45:55because it's in the notes and we sort of
0:45:57talked about it but we a bunch of people
0:46:02we're trying to guess they were sort of
0:46:03guessing and a very few people actually
0:46:07identified what it is it's been a
0:46:09mystery for at leat for a week if not
0:46:11more for people what is the third
0:46:15company and before you say it let's say
0:46:18thanks to world view this is a new and
0:46:19totally addictive take on email
0:46:21reporting from campaign monitor
0:46:23basically when you send a newsletter
0:46:25they will show you on a map in real-time
0:46:29whenever somebody opens it when they
0:46:31click on a link when they forward it to
0:46:33a buddy okay but get this they also show
0:46:36you who is liking your email on Facebook
0:46:39perfect to mention there but also on
0:46:41Twitter
0:46:42and again on a map the moment that it
0:46:45happens exact moment that it happens a
0:46:47moment somebody mentions it clicks it
0:46:49links it forwards it whatever you see
0:46:52this on a map and here's the best part
0:46:53it's free for every email campaign that
0:46:55you send you can check out a demo of
0:46:57this at campaign monitor comm slash
0:47:00world view one word like that pretty
0:47:03cool
0:47:04all right company number three you know
0:47:08I was surprised anybody in the chatroom
0:47:11now wanna want to throw out what they
0:47:13think it is cuz this is gonna surprise I
0:47:14think it's going to surprise a lot of
0:47:15people I like seeing people's guesses
0:47:17because it gave me new ideas for other
0:47:19companies and think about one of my
0:47:20favorites was Dropbox like that's that's
0:47:23that's the thing that interested me you
0:47:24can you throw out a company and then I
0:47:26can't think of anything bad about them
0:47:27all right Dropbox I had to think a
0:47:30little while but we're not taught this
0:47:31Dropbox is not the company no a bunch of
0:47:33people are saying Amazon and Twitter and
0:47:35you know Microsoft's hard to think about
0:47:37things that are bad about Microsoft here
0:47:39that's not that's not a challenge this
0:47:42is this is the kind of thing people who
0:47:44hear what you're about to say are likely
0:47:46gonna just turn the show off because
0:47:48you're hitting you're hitting in it and
0:47:50we're never turn the show off because
0:47:51they want their ideas challenged this
0:47:54company is the sole the very backbone of
0:47:57uh of America Zappos out that's a good
0:48:03one Zappos is a good guess I'm not in
0:48:05Zappos but everyone seems to love it I
0:48:06don't think I've ever even bought
0:48:07anything from it so far in the chat room
0:48:08nobody who's gone to get let's let's
0:48:10let's uh let's lower that the hatchet
0:48:13let's let him have right so this this is
0:48:16the biggest challenge and company that
0:48:18you can think of something what what's
0:48:20the what's wrong with this company
0:48:21nothing just answer me his pics are no
0:48:25have you ever heard nothing's wrong with
0:48:27Big Show are ever had anyone say
0:48:29anything bad about fix on the this
0:48:31company is the heart and soul of
0:48:32everything that's right with America
0:48:36there's nothing wrong with them how dare
0:48:38you
0:48:38and it's another Steve Jobs company
0:48:40right now think about Apple this you
0:48:42have no problem finding people who can
0:48:44say something that's wrong about Apple
0:48:45right it's Steve Jobs baby you know but
0:48:48you can find it's too can throw a rock
0:48:50on the internet without somebody that
0:48:51hates Apple but then look at this other
0:48:52company Pixar can you find anybody who
0:48:54has ever said anything bad about pixel
0:48:56and they're sure it's not because I
0:48:58haven't try but here here John I'll tell
0:49:00you something bad about Pixar this is
0:49:01horrible this is something they should
0:49:02be totally ashamed of is that the
0:49:05graphics in Toy Story 1 weren't as good
0:49:07as they weren't oyster 2 and the ones in
0:49:09Toy Story 2 weren't as good as the
0:49:11graphics in Toy Story 3 I'm a shame on
0:49:13the horrible company can you believe
0:49:14that yeah that's the type of stuff you
0:49:16can only you can only variables that and
0:49:19this this is oh yeah I didn't come at
0:49:21this as a I'm trying to think of a
0:49:23company that is so good that I can't
0:49:25think of anything wrong with it this
0:49:26came to me in the opposite direction as
0:49:27things always do I was I forget what I
0:49:29was thinking about I saw I saw a tweet
0:49:31and it made me think about Pixar and it
0:49:34made me realize that that they have a
0:49:36weakness
0:49:36we're just shocking because every other
0:49:38thought I've ever had about Pixar was
0:49:40the how wonderful they are now perfectly
0:49:41alright so again this is not trying to
0:49:44say that the Pixar is a horrible company
0:49:46Pixar is perhaps the best company in the
0:49:47entire universe so would why which is
0:49:50why what's wrong with them you think of
0:49:52one thing that's wrong trying to think
0:49:53of what you're gonna I'm trying to think
0:49:55of what you're gonna say yeah it's and
0:49:57again like my facebook one was weak it's
0:49:58like oh they'll be so dominant it that
0:50:01eventually they'll miss the next big
0:50:02thing like that's pretty weak already ah
0:50:04this may be even weaker and less
0:50:07convinced are you going to say that it's
0:50:08because they and people in the chat room
0:50:10are this wasn't the one thing I had
0:50:11thought of and this is what people in
0:50:13the chat room are saying is it because
0:50:15of their I guess Disney owns them or
0:50:18their relationship with Disney is that
0:50:20it that's a good guess actually because
0:50:22that's the fear of like you know when
0:50:24Disney takes over they'll do make bad
0:50:25decisions but I think it was kind of a
0:50:27reverse takeover where a Pixar Pixar
0:50:28took over Disney animation sure does
0:50:30seem like it for kind of like next you
0:50:32know Apple bought next but you know next
0:50:34all right but for now I'm I'm not
0:50:37worried about that oh no here's here's
0:50:39the tweet this between actually came
0:50:41from I wish you would tell us how to
0:50:43pronounce his name
0:50:43Horus did do a Simcoe a Simcoe calm that
0:50:47guy yeah he's great he tweeted this and
0:50:50this this triggered this thought process
0:50:52his tweet was Pixar developed the
0:50:54process to engineer art Apple develop
0:50:56the process to make art of engineering
0:50:58and that says you know it's a nice tweet
0:51:00about to Steve Jobs companies and their
0:51:02and their different approaches one is in
0:51:03the world of creativity and they brought
0:51:05technology to bear and apples in the
0:51:07world of technology and they brought
0:51:08creativity to bear and it's
0:51:10Steve Jobs his thing that he puts up
0:51:11that street sign the intersection of
0:51:12liberal arts and technology you know
0:51:14he's done that for the past couple years
0:51:16and this was a little encapsulation of
0:51:18that and it reminded me of something
0:51:21that I saw it was a talk from Ed Catmull
0:51:26in 2007 to the Stanford Graduate School
0:51:28of Business I put the link in the show
0:51:30notes and I just want to do a sidebar in
0:51:32the show notes because I know sometimes
0:51:33when I listen to podcasts and they're
0:51:35like oh yeah we'll have a link in the
0:51:36show notes no one has any idea how the
0:51:37heck to get to the show notes because
0:51:39you're listening to a podcast and you're
0:51:41doing whatever you're jogging you're you
0:51:43know you're walking around your
0:51:44headphones on you have no idea
0:51:45like can I remember that the name of the
0:51:47show where is that the URL of the site
0:51:49how do I get to the show notes and by
0:51:51the time you get back to the computer
0:51:52you've forgotten so here for the people
0:51:54who keep here as we're hearing us refer
0:51:55to show notes and have no idea where
0:51:57they are this is where it is it's the
0:51:59number five by5 dot TV slash
0:52:04hypercritical right
0:52:05I've by five dot TV slash hypercritical
0:52:07now will list all the episodes you click
0:52:09on one of the episodes and you will see
0:52:10the show notes yeah I just go to the
0:52:12episode that you were listening to if
0:52:14you know it and we have descriptions up
0:52:15there of each episode so if you weren't
0:52:17sure which is the one where John was
0:52:19talking about which companies were the
0:52:21bad ones that'll be there right in the
0:52:22description so some some reading will be
0:52:24involved if you're not sure of the
0:52:26number but we also do say the number at
0:52:28the top of the show I already said the
0:52:30distinguish I don't know if people know
0:52:31that you have to go to five by five dot
0:52:33TV like that you know they go
0:52:35hypercritical com or they try to click
0:52:37through an iTunes so just there it is
0:52:38I'm by five dot TV slash hypercritical
0:52:40you will find the show notes and I say
0:52:42this because this Ed Catmull speech Ed
0:52:45Catmull is one of the founders of Pixar
0:52:46uh this talk that he gave it's really
0:52:49long he talks slowly and he looks like
0:52:51your dad right I take the time out to
0:52:55watch this thing I think is like an hour
0:52:56long or whatever it is really long and
0:52:57you think you're going to be bored but
0:52:59if you find this podcast remotely
0:53:01interesting I think you'll you will get
0:53:03tremendous value out of watching this so
0:53:04you should watch this this very long
0:53:06video of Ed Catmull talking he talks
0:53:08about the founding of Pixar but mostly
0:53:11about how Pixar faced its challenges
0:53:14like when Pixar had many trials and
0:53:16tribulations that from the outside you
0:53:17would not imagine that they had because
0:53:19we just see the results and the results
0:53:20are wonderful these great movies right
0:53:21but he talks about how
0:53:23how did this happen how did this company
0:53:25make these great movies time and time
0:53:26again and what are the problems that
0:53:28face and how did address them and the
0:53:30reason I thought of it is because that
0:53:32tweet was saying you know the Pixar
0:53:33developed a process to engineer art and
0:53:35Edie cat moles talk talks about that
0:53:37process he's an engineer he was you know
0:53:41a technical guy not a business guy who
0:53:43just became a business guy because he
0:53:46was the founder of the company and he
0:53:47took a technical approach to to doing
0:53:50business stuff you know it's like let's
0:53:54find something that went wrong think of
0:53:57a solution for it and then formalize the
0:53:59solution to prevent the problem from
0:54:00happening again so you're trying to
0:54:01ratchet your company up so every time
0:54:03there's a problem address it formalize
0:54:05the solution and you know and make that
0:54:07part of your process and they want and
0:54:09that's what engineers want they want a
0:54:10repeatable process all right they don't
0:54:12they don't want touchy-feely kind of let
0:54:15the artist do his work because that's
0:54:16not predictable process is predictable
0:54:19and an engineering approach is to say
0:54:20look if our process is not producing
0:54:23things that we that are creatives find
0:54:24are good the process is broken so let's
0:54:26adjust the process now see how income
0:54:32with this so this approach produces all
0:54:36the movies that we've seen these Pixar
0:54:38movies and it just it it's kind of a
0:54:40triumph of engineering to say that you
0:54:41can engineer creativity by taking an
0:54:45engineering approach to something that
0:54:47used to be purely within the realm of
0:54:49emotions that like that like take motion
0:54:50out of the equation and this in the Ed
0:54:52Catmull speech you'll see lots of
0:54:53situations where they threw away a
0:54:54tremendous amount of work they had done
0:54:56which you know is not what artists will
0:54:59want to do they will fight for their
0:55:00creation forever and but you know
0:55:03they're taking a dispassionate
0:55:04engineering approach and saying no we
0:55:06have to throw this out it's not good
0:55:07enough let's try again all right
0:55:09that's a Steve Jobs approach getting
0:55:10back to the criticism thing of just not
0:55:12letting anything that's not good enough
0:55:13out the door the key thing is not that
0:55:15Pixar is amazingly wonderful about doing
0:55:18everything they're just amazingly
0:55:19wonderful about killing anything that's
0:55:21not good right it's the opposite
0:55:23approach it's that they they have the
0:55:24same failures as everybody else they
0:55:26just do not let the failures out the
0:55:27door so that's that's their approach to
0:55:30this but what this approach I think
0:55:32gives you is a to do like Pixar which I
0:55:36would say that they're over
0:55:37average of product is better than anyone
0:55:40elses I can't think of another movie
0:55:42studio or another another entity that
0:55:44has produced a higher average quality
0:55:46you know just movie after movie after
0:55:47movie to average them together just head
0:55:51and shoulders but above everybody else
0:55:53but what I was thinking about is John
0:55:55Lasseter another was he a founder of
0:55:57Pixar he was one of the early creatives
0:55:59brought in and how he said he's a bigwig
0:56:00at Pixar brain a stylist he's been
0:56:02running it for a long time for de-facto
0:56:04running in right because you know he's
0:56:06jobs isn't there because he's at Apple
0:56:08or whatever so Lassiter's running things
0:56:10and he's a creative rent and his hero
0:56:12that he talks about all the time one of
0:56:15his his animation Heroes is a Miyazaki
0:56:17Japanese animator and and this and I'm
0:56:21also he's active and I thought about
0:56:22this I thought if you were to ask John
0:56:25Lasseter would he say that any Pixar
0:56:28movie is as good or better than his
0:56:30favorite Miyazaki and if you think about
0:56:34Miyazaki's work the average quality of
0:56:37Miyazaki movies I would say is like not
0:56:41up to Pixar stands there that you know
0:56:42they're like throwaway ones and duds
0:56:44here and there yeah I think the peaks of
0:56:47Miyazaki's work higher than the peaks of
0:56:49any of Pixar's work and I think it's
0:56:52because Pixar's approach to engineering
0:56:55is preventing them from ever having big
0:56:57failures but also preventing them from
0:56:59having a transcendent success to the
0:57:03heights of the best of Miyazaki hmm and
0:57:06I'm wondering if you even if you ask
0:57:07John Lasseter the V Pixar guy would he
0:57:09would he agree would he say that he has
0:57:11matched his hero in any particular way
0:57:13in any movie and would do what'd he say
0:57:16that he has surpassed his favorite you
0:57:18know so I think this this approach to
0:57:19engineering art the advantages you get a
0:57:22consistently good product the
0:57:24disadvantage may be that you can never
0:57:26get that highest high because I think to
0:57:28get the highest high you have to be
0:57:29willing to have big failures you have to
0:57:32be willing to have the riskier
0:57:33divergences that don't fit within your
0:57:35past experience your past experience is
0:57:36telling you this is not good do not let
0:57:38it out the door everything that is made
0:57:39you have series of hit movies one after
0:57:42the other all that you know knowledge
0:57:44and experience is telling you do not let
0:57:46this happen because this will be bad and
0:57:47that is killing the more sort of divert
0:57:51interesting ideas before they you know
0:57:54they get out the door now if you watch
0:57:56the Ed Catmull speech he talks about
0:57:58this this is obviously the engineering
0:57:59approaches to acknowledge this is the
0:58:01fact that that a process can stifle
0:58:02creativity so we have to let people you
0:58:04know bring in new blood bring in fresh
0:58:06people don't shoot down a just because
0:58:07I'm not what we haven't done before but
0:58:09I have to think that that approach that
0:58:11that when I see this numb this many
0:58:14consistently good movies coming out it
0:58:16makes me think there's there's a
0:58:18sickness in the company that is not
0:58:20going to let them ever have the
0:58:22transcendent success because I think
0:58:23they have the transcendent success you
0:58:24have to be allow for the big failures
0:58:26and the fact they haven't had a big
0:58:27failure makes me think that that's a
0:58:29problem with their process hmm so you
0:58:32almost you would almost feel better
0:58:34about Pixar if they had had a big
0:58:37failure like yeah do something ambitious
0:58:40really really ambitious and have it fall
0:58:42on its face right and because you would
0:58:45think after this period of time it's not
0:58:47like you expect their second movie to be
0:58:48that but they're this period of time
0:58:49surely they're you know you're not
0:58:51taking enough risks if you're not if
0:58:53you're never failing right and this gets
0:58:56back to speech to one of the things he
0:58:58talks about in the speeches like like
0:59:00what I'm saying is it it's not like I'm
0:59:03saying Pixar is horrible or doom drink
0:59:05like that is exact opposite of that
0:59:06right but it doesn't mean that this one
0:59:08thing I had to dig out this tiny little
0:59:10nugget I had to dig out of you know so
0:59:11hard to think of anything wrong with
0:59:12Pixar doesn't mean that this is any less
0:59:14dire than any more obvious thing that's
0:59:16wrong with other companies and as Edie
0:59:18camel says in the speech success hides
0:59:20problems and the more successful you are
0:59:22the bigger problems you can hide so the
0:59:24fact that I that this never occurred to
0:59:26me until I got triggered by that
0:59:28engineering art phrase nothing doesn't
0:59:29mean that this is not a real problem and
0:59:31it doesn't mean that this problem
0:59:32actually isn't is small it might be a
0:59:34big problem because they've had such
0:59:35massive success and the more successful
0:59:37you are the more it hides problems like
0:59:39that you know you can you know you get
0:59:43my thing is like how long can Pixar
0:59:45continue like this
0:59:46how long can Pixar possibly make the
0:59:51same great movies over and over again
0:59:53like will they ever fail and at a
0:59:56certain point the culture of the company
0:59:57becomes make sure we
0:59:57becomes make sure we
1:00:00don't have a failure instead of make
1:00:02sure the next movie is just the best
1:00:04movie we ever made
1:00:06I don't know if there at that point yet
1:00:08what I hear from inside you know Pixar
1:00:11about their plans and everything sounds
1:00:12to me like they know that this is an
1:00:14issue and they're actively working to
1:00:16fight it like when they brought in Brad
1:00:17Bird for The Incredibles for example
1:00:18like they know that they need to do this
1:00:22they know like make our next movie
1:00:23completely unlike any movie we've ever
1:00:25made before you know bringing new people
1:00:28to do it people who are not constrained
1:00:30by the ideas of our previous movies but
1:00:33yeah yeah like I said the fact that I
1:00:35don't see any big flops the fact that I
1:00:36don't see any super ambitious product
1:00:38but you know that falls on its face
1:00:39makes me think they're not risking
1:00:41enough but so but if you look at if you
1:00:43look at what they did with Toy Story 1
1:00:45that was that was that risk that moved
1:00:48only the first one is you know is the
1:00:50big risk you know just registering
1:00:52they're not evolving they're not
1:00:54continuing to push the envelope in any
1:00:56way so what would that look like what
1:00:57would a big risk look like well that's
1:00:59what I was going to ask I mean would be
1:01:00for example again you don't say you have
1:01:03to do any of these things I'm just
1:01:04trying to think of things that would be
1:01:05diverged so a big divergence would be a
1:01:06movie that's not for kids obviously I
1:01:08think they did The Incredibles that was
1:01:09PG but the seriously a movie for adults
1:01:12you know another risk would be a movie
1:01:15in a genre that they that had they've
1:01:18never done before like trying to do
1:01:20photo realism not because that that's
1:01:22what you should do because animation is
1:01:23bad but just because it's the opposite
1:01:24of what they've done so far and all
1:01:27these may be bad ideas but if some if
1:01:29someone has some inspiration to do
1:01:31something great based on one of these
1:01:33ideas I wouldn't I would like to see
1:01:36that idea run with instead of you know
1:01:39tried but then you know thrown away
1:01:41because it wasn't good enough or or
1:01:43reworked or just you know we want to put
1:01:46out a solid product but we're not
1:01:48willing to risk you on you know it was
1:01:49at some point it's gonna be someone who
1:01:50has some crazy idea that's so good but
1:01:52that everyone at Pixar disagrees with
1:01:54right and I would like to see that guy
1:01:56given a chance to do what he wants
1:01:59despite the fact that everyone thinks is
1:02:00going to be a disaster just in case it's
1:02:02something amazing when you've got a
1:02:03single guy like Miyazaki I think he has
1:02:05a higher level of control there and he
1:02:06can do his duds where he's like I'm
1:02:07really into you know cats and I'm going
1:02:09to do a movie about that no it's not
1:02:10great you know so he has hits and misses
1:02:13that's what
1:02:13individuals like but an organization
1:02:15sort of smooths out the lumps but I want
1:02:18to see those lumps on these lumps stick
1:02:19up I'm not so interested in a lot and
1:02:20the values that go down the the duds I'm
1:02:22not saying I need to have a bad movie
1:02:24you know I want to see those Peaks that
1:02:26poke out and I think you need to have
1:02:28the valleys to get the peaks not dare
1:02:33you yeah you know like I would never
1:02:37have said this three years ago four
1:02:38years ago but Pixar has been around for
1:02:40a long time now and it's just something
1:02:43beyond the chat room brought cars to I
1:02:45know nothing about cars too and I
1:02:47suspect that Pixar's magic is that even
1:02:49though you think Cars 2 is going to be
1:02:50dumb and it's just a sequel it's got to
1:02:51in the title they do what no one else
1:02:54does and you make a good sequel like Toy
1:02:55Story 2 is fantastic Toy Story 3 was
1:02:57fantastic and movies with numbers after
1:02:59them are supposed to get worse and be
1:03:00horrible and they're not because of
1:03:02Pixar's process they're not but Cars 2
1:03:05does not make me think this is going to
1:03:06be the transcend most amazing movie the
1:03:08Lassiter is finally going to agree is
1:03:10better than his favorite Miyazaki movie
1:03:11you know what I mean yeah no I hear you
1:03:13there and I actually haven't I I've seen
1:03:15previews of cars too I'm not I'm not in
1:03:17love with it but I don't I don't feel
1:03:21like that qualifies as being a flop
1:03:23because it it doesn't strike me as a
1:03:24movie that's taking a risk and we don't
1:03:28know I mean I think when they say
1:03:31they're making Toy Story 2 it's like oh
1:03:32you can't do that man Toy Story 1 was
1:03:34just so perfect why do you have to go
1:03:35and make a sequel but if they have
1:03:36something new and interesting to say you
1:03:38can do a sequel well but it's really
1:03:40difficult for a sequel to sort of break
1:03:43through and reach new heights it's
1:03:46sequels can be better than the original
1:03:47like I think Toy Story 2 in many ways is
1:03:49better than Toy Story 1 and some people
1:03:51would make the same argument for three
1:03:52but it's not like an order of magnitude
1:03:54better whereas if somebody wants to do
1:03:57like an adult murder mystery in in CG
1:04:01that and it's fantastic and it like it
1:04:04wins the Academy Award for Best Picture
1:04:05above live-action movies or something
1:04:07like that's the type of victory that I'm
1:04:09talking about now that is not going to
1:04:11happen that if they're not willing to
1:04:14take the risk of just falling on their
1:04:15face and the rienne again the reason I
1:04:17think they're not taking the risk of
1:04:18falling on the face is because they
1:04:19haven't over such a long period of time
1:04:21surely if they were risking falling on
1:04:23their face they would have done it by
1:04:24now law of averages right
1:04:28maybe maybe no become more optimistic
1:04:32about them than you are it's not no I
1:04:35didn't get I don't think so this is you
1:04:37know Pixar is doomed but you know
1:04:41nothing is so perfect right that's true
1:04:45you really like
1:04:46again I would encourage everybody to
1:04:48watch that Ed Catmull talk because it is
1:04:49just fantastic isn't the show notes it
1:04:52is in the show notes well here's you
1:04:54here's another thing here's another
1:04:55thing you can do if you're a big fan and
1:04:57you want show notes and you don't want
1:04:59to be bothered to go to the website you
1:05:02can subscribe to any one of these feeds
1:05:05you have to go to the website once to
1:05:08get the URL for them but once you do
1:05:10that you can subscribe to them in your
1:05:11in your news reader whatever that is
1:05:13whatever app or or platform you want to
1:05:16use and the show notes are in there and
1:05:19your news reader should be smart enough
1:05:20not to try to download the the mp3 file
1:05:23attachment but it'll just show you the
1:05:25notes of full notes with links and text
1:05:27and everything right in there so you
1:05:29don't even have to go to the website
1:05:30well they didn't even know I didn't even
1:05:32know this sure we're going to the
1:05:33website simple you should go to the
1:05:35website but to subscribe and in your
1:05:39news reader and you'll see them right
1:05:40there that said this is a custom
1:05:44solution that I wrote myself that's why
1:05:46there's so many options and that's also
1:05:48why there's so many little bugs
1:05:50well you'll fix those someone in the
1:05:53chatroom is saying that up and Wally are
1:05:55examples of the big risks and I guess it
1:05:58just so happens that they they succeeded
1:06:01so if you think about those two movies
1:06:04what was risky about Wally
1:06:06well everyone cites the beginning part
1:06:09where there's no dialogue and everything
1:06:10as it's risky I keep kids attention but
1:06:13you know kids are entertained by puppet
1:06:14shows for the puppets don't talk so I
1:06:17don't think it's a risk to do physical
1:06:19comedy to kids and keep their attention
1:06:21and I would say that the the larger
1:06:24story the larger ecological saved the
1:06:26planet story on wall-e was kind of
1:06:28ham-fisted not that I'm not a fan of
1:06:30wall-e but I I'm not as impressed by
1:06:33that it wasn't it wasn't as subtle as I
1:06:37thought it should have been
1:06:39up I guess the risk there is the main
1:06:42character is an old guy but then they
1:06:43put in the cute kid anyway so there was
1:06:45someone for the little kids in the
1:06:46audience to relate to yeah and the risk
1:06:48is showing that sequence it ends in a
1:06:49sad note I'm not sure how devastated
1:06:53children were by that opening segment
1:06:55our ones going to tell me right into
1:06:57their kid cried during that part but it
1:06:58was I think it was more devastating to
1:07:00people who can relate to the idea of
1:07:02being married and you know Ramona little
1:07:05kids and stuff like that right so adults
1:07:07have more of a line into that thing even
1:07:09if the kids cried about it too because
1:07:10they didn't like it when they that the
1:07:11old lady died but that was that was more
1:07:14aimed at the adult so I don't think that
1:07:15was a risk to do something like that
1:07:17because I didn't think kids were going
1:07:18to leave that knot I didn't think was a
1:07:21risk obviously was a risk but it wasn't
1:07:22the type of we may fall on our face
1:07:25completely risk because I think if you
1:07:27told anyone you were going to do that
1:07:28they would say yeah I can see how that
1:07:29can work because the kids you know won't
1:07:31be too devastated by they won't leave
1:07:32the theater crying and tears but the
1:07:34parents will be drawn in and then we've
1:07:35got them for the rest of the movie mmm
1:07:37it's easy to explain why that's going to
1:07:39work it's not as easy to explain why you
1:07:42think you know I don't let me think of
1:07:44another crazy idea for Pixar I keep
1:07:46going about the photorealism simply
1:07:47because they haven't done it and
1:07:48everyone says it's a horrible idea like
1:07:50do not do photo realism there's no point
1:07:51in it and the strength of animation is
1:07:53that doesn't look like real life just do
1:07:54not do it but you know that that's
1:07:57that's a pic for you know whatever you
1:07:58need to do that and then do an adult
1:07:59genre you know - I don't know oh can you
1:08:04think of a genre that would be the exact
1:08:06opposite of what Pixar has done I think
1:08:07murder mystery but that might be too
1:08:09close gosh that's a tough question a
1:08:13photo realistic CG movie about the
1:08:15Holocaust let's bring up the Hoff
1:08:16singing cuz listeners love when I like
1:08:19Gimli Schindler's List you know it from
1:08:22Pixar right I never say this is this is
1:08:24the worst idea ever first of all you're
1:08:25doing it for realistic what the heck is
1:08:26the point why Andrews do with
1:08:27live-action hack just a second of all
1:08:29doing and doing anything having to with
1:08:31the Holocaust in animation is insulting
1:08:32to the actual like it is a terrible idea
1:08:34and they would never let that idea go
1:08:36through and it's exactly opposite of
1:08:37what they do and maybe it is a terrible
1:08:39idea maybe that idea would fall on its
1:08:40face but these the type of I'm trying to
1:08:41think of the worst possible idea ever
1:08:43these are the type of ideas that someday
1:08:46someone's going to happen on the with
1:08:47you I don't how about the Godfather yeah
1:08:51there you go like organized
1:08:52crime drama yeah for adults only rated-r
1:08:55more not a Yakuza thing it has to be in
1:08:58the American mob yes because has been
1:09:01done in animation it's been great yeah
1:09:06so maybe that'll come by what is what is
1:09:07Pixar's a next project I forget I think
1:09:09it's a mob film for adults only no it
1:09:13was that every time I hear what the next
1:09:15film was going to be I'm surprised so it
1:09:16shows that they are innovating but the
1:09:19fact that they have never ever failed
1:09:20and makes me suspect of this whole
1:09:22engineering art thing so what's next
1:09:26week's topic gonna be oh I gotta pull
1:09:30the page we gotta take your time we're
1:09:40getting down to just the ones that you
1:09:41don't want to pick then you have to pick
1:09:44one oh I know you want the the third one
1:09:48because you've picked it many times your
1:09:50but I just don't have that much to say
1:09:51about well maybe we do that and then we
1:09:53talked about we talked about toasters
1:09:55the rest the time toasters I feel like I
1:09:57have to prep for that's a serious
1:10:00serious topic so yeah yeah maybe you
1:10:03could put some work into the show and by
1:10:05the way for the people who brought this
1:10:06up I'm speaking specifically about
1:10:08toaster ovens when I just say toasters I
1:10:10mean a toaster oven you're not talking
1:10:11about the kind where you put not talking
1:10:13about slot toasters which may also stink
1:10:15too but I just don't use them we can
1:10:17tell I could talk about those enough to
1:10:18cover for it they all say well I might
1:10:23add items to the list okay and we just
1:10:27did a non tech show so we're not I can't
1:10:29yell at you about your called diets or
1:10:30anything like that right well I can but
1:10:34I'll do that off the air indeed all
1:10:38right so I get I guess that's it for
1:10:39this one you don't you don't to say what
1:10:41we're doing next week we'll leave it a
1:10:42mystery they don't need to know yeah and
1:10:44also for this this format of what's
1:10:46wrong with X they're all jackals anyway
1:10:48those people I may have other we may
1:10:51come back to this this may be a regular
1:10:53thing you know in a couple weeks if I
1:10:55decide what's wrong with you know if I
1:10:57decide I want to do what's wrong with
1:10:58Dropbox or people have suggestions for
1:11:00companies or anything like that because
1:11:03I like like thinking about this the more
1:11:04popular the company the more beloved the
1:11:06more interest
1:11:06thing it is Dan and hey we can always do
1:11:11encryption oh we got to do that I'm
1:11:14gonna do that do it someday
1:11:20in the meantime everyone's data will be
1:11:22mercifully unencrypted all right so go
1:11:26to five by five TV you can hear previous
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1:11:30show notes and listen to other shows
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1:11:36and of course please rate the show you
1:11:38have to rate it and review it for John
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1:11:43comments on it any comments somewhere
1:11:45and the siracusa on twitter accent on
1:11:50the a well you don't have the accent
1:11:52mark we can work on that siracusa on to
1:11:55it i'm dan benjamin on twitter we'd like
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1:12:11week
1:12:20you