Hypercritical

11: I Am the Steve Jobs of This Sandwich

 

  [Music] [TS]

  this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong the [TS]

  world of Apple and related technologies [TS]

  and businesses nothing is so perfect [TS]

  that John siracusa cannot complain about [TS]

  it hey John how are you I'm doing fine [TS]

  I'm Dan Benjamin this is episode number [TS]

  ten eleven almost at 10:00 it's 11:00 we [TS]

  want to preemptively thank mailchimp.com [TS]

  will tell you about what they what [TS]

  they've got going on later in the show [TS]

  but here it is a big number 11 we flew I [TS]

  feel like we crossed some milestone by [TS]

  going you know it's like when people [TS]

  would celebrate the new millennium [TS]

  ending in 2000 but really that it's not [TS]

  it's not until 2001 for example that [TS]

  you're supposed to celebrate that you [TS]

  knew that I was actually hoping that we [TS]

  can make it at 10 shows before you [TS]

  rescheduled it we almost made it almost [TS]

  this is a good time yeah the great time [TS]

  for at least the next nine episodes yeah [TS]

  we'll hold out for nine more at least so [TS]

  what have you been up to you have to [TS]

  follow up I do I have some follow up I [TS]

  always say not a lot but that it ends up [TS]

  being half the show so just to just [TS]

  figure this is gonna be half the show [TS]

  let's start yeah so we've got last show [TS]

  was no I life as an island yeah good [TS]

  show got some feedback on that one a lot [TS]

  of people just agreeing but uh one [TS]

  person was noting that the iPad is not a [TS]

  great multi person machinist gets kind [TS]

  of into iOS as a single user operating [TS]

  system when you're going back to [TS]

  episodes for follow-up now pop knows no [TS]

  bounds okay all right I like that what [TS]

  you were yeah um yeah and this is the [TS]

  older follow-up so comes first so this [TS]

  was a Martin Steiger was knowing that [TS]

  iPads think if you have like one for the [TS]

  whole family it's a big fight over you [TS]

  know who gets to put what on the home [TS]

  screen and whose apps or what whose [TS]

  email accounts are in the mail app and [TS]

  who's instapaper account is [TS]

  automatically logged in and means to [TS]

  favorite you know I mean they're not [TS]

  exactly good multi-user devices and [TS]

  there's no real reason for it in theory [TS]

  they could add fast user switching you [TS]

  know dump everything else out of memory [TS]

  and and [TS]

  which to a different user that might [TS]

  take a little while it might you know [TS]

  decrease the experience Apple would just [TS]

  say why doesn't everybody the family buy [TS]

  an iPad you know but at 500 bucks a pop [TS]

  that's not yet an option maybe one there [TS]

  one hundred and fifty dollars in five [TS]

  years [TS]

  then it won't be such a big deal so I [TS]

  expect Apple is going to just stick to [TS]

  its guns in this one and say iOS it's [TS]

  one person one device there's no user [TS]

  switching that's ridiculous [TS]

  we'll get the price down eventually [TS]

  don't worry about it eventually you'll [TS]

  each have one and won't be a problem [TS]

  it's kind of like complaining about how [TS]

  you know we're all sharing a phone in [TS]

  the family we have one cell phone and [TS]

  it's annoying because the home screen is [TS]

  not the way I want everyone has their [TS]

  own phone now and that's you know the [TS]

  things I think eventually everyone will [TS]

  have their own tablet thing I mean this [TS]

  problem will go away but for now it is [TS]

  kind of annoying that you can't share a [TS]

  device and it's actually it's about to [TS]

  come up in our household because we got [TS]

  our iPad you did yeah you got yours too [TS]

  right no no no it's out for delivery [TS]

  today again so they say oh you saw they [TS]

  tried and didn't quite make it no they [TS]

  they it sat in Anchorage actually did [TS]

  saying sit in Anchorage but before that [TS]

  it was in it was in some place I'm not [TS]

  even sure how to pronounce in Hong Kong [TS]

  is it land ha Lantau Island I don't know [TS]

  it was there for four or five days it [TS]

  was an anchorage for four to five days [TS]

  then it was in Memphis for two days and [TS]

  today it says it's on vehicle for [TS]

  delivery it's taken at or on its way to [TS]

  you [TS]

  and I'm not I mean you know again I [TS]

  don't I don't mind waiting I think would [TS]

  be fun to talk about it but it'll get [TS]

  here when gets here there's Pete [TS]

  everybody wants it right now gotta have [TS]

  it right now day one [TS]

  yeah my wife had the same problem we [TS]

  ordered one online after she failed to [TS]

  get one in person and she just couldn't [TS]

  wait for the one to come online so she [TS]

  went to an Apple store early this [TS]

  morning and waited in line and got one [TS]

  and cancelled our online order I knew a [TS]

  lot of people that that were doing that [TS]

  and yeah I mean I didn't bring it to me [TS]

  whenever you get it bring it to me [TS]

  that's fine it is kind of annoying that [TS]

  they decide the inventory goes to the [TS]

  stores first and the people who mail [TS]

  order to just have to wait you know [TS]

  because it's obviously for the entire [TS]

  time we've been waiting for our order to [TS]

  to ship the supposed to three to four [TS]

  weeks stores have been getting your [TS]

  shipments every single day so [TS]

  like why not send some of those to the [TS]

  people who ordered theirs but I guess [TS]

  they have their priorities you know I [TS]

  guess they do and I don't can I mean I I [TS]

  don't really understand the logic of [TS]

  that of how they make how they actually [TS]

  make the decision of where to send what [TS]

  it seems it's kind of a puzzle I think [TS]

  they think that people who order online [TS]

  are the people who are going to get it [TS]

  anyway so you don't have to satisfy them [TS]

  and the people who go to the stores or [TS]

  the regular Joe's and you want to get [TS]

  those people when you can like the guy [TS]

  order online knew from the second it was [TS]

  announced he was going to get it or knew [TS]

  right before that he was gonna get it [TS]

  whereas someone wandering behind the [TS]

  mall saying oh you know iPad I heard [TS]

  about that and they wander into an Apple [TS]

  store that gets your kind of casual [TS]

  spontaneous one of the mill non tech [TS]

  followers and you have to have inventory [TS]

  for them if I had to make the decision I [TS]

  would I would do the same thing it's [TS]

  just annoying when we're one of the [TS]

  people who you know mail ordered it but [TS]

  it's the stores obviously don't have [TS]

  enough stock as it is and those are the [TS]

  places where you want to get the new [TS]

  people and poach the you know the in [TS]

  between e customers I mean if you [TS]

  because as strange as this sounds I [TS]

  think for a lot of people this is almost [TS]

  like an impulse buy yeah we're not not [TS]

  impulse buys just if you're not in tech [TS]

  circles by now you've probably heard [TS]

  about the iPad or some sort of tablet or [TS]

  maybe you get it confused with the iPod [TS]

  touch what you call the I touch you know [TS]

  you just he you know there's something [TS]

  going on out there but you're not it's [TS]

  not in front of your mind you're like [TS]

  yeah whatever [TS]

  and you just happen to be in the mall or [TS]

  happen to be wherever you are and the [TS]

  Apple store is there and you're killing [TS]

  time you let you just wander in and say [TS]

  let me check out what they have here and [TS]

  then it then it gets you because you're [TS]

  not prepared to see this thing you [TS]

  hadn't given any thought in your entire [TS]

  life about what it would be like to use [TS]

  a big touchscreen and fill around web [TS]

  pages with your finger and you do it [TS]

  once and you're like all right I've got [TS]

  a credit card how much is this and walk [TS]

  out with one something else on the iPad [TS]

  before we leave this one to go in the [TS]

  next thing this is not really a die pads [TS]

  but it's from the common from the same [TS]

  guy I'm gonna guess by his name that [TS]

  maybe he's in Germany [TS]

  Martin Steiger but he says that [TS]

  microwave ovens are not ubiquitous [TS]

  wherever he is yeah and he says maybe [TS]

  microwave a widespread microwave up and [TS]

  use might be an American thing I hadn't [TS]

  given that much thought but I suppose [TS]

  that could be true I don't know you know [TS]

  I don't I can't it's 2,000 [TS]

  eleven I am sure that in many countries [TS]

  they don't have luxuries of things like [TS]

  microwaves and that but you get the [TS]

  sense that if if you can go to a corner [TS]

  store and buy a newspaper and you've got [TS]

  electricity in your house and plumbing [TS]

  and things that work if you're lucky [TS]

  enough to live in a that kind of a [TS]

  country you would just assume it people [TS]

  who are listening to this show that they [TS]

  have a microwave yeah you think we're [TS]

  gonna get your Albania but that's us [TS]

  centric view of the world because really [TS]

  we just don't know anything about the [TS]

  rest of the world I don't know that he [TS]

  says he doesn't have a microwave and has [TS]

  never had one how could you get by with [TS]

  in a microwave he says he has a steamer [TS]

  but you know maybe like in Europe it's [TS]

  not really heat up a can of soup and a [TS]

  steamer I don't know I guess you'd put [TS]

  that right on the stove in a pot take 20 [TS]

  minutes to get it to room temperature [TS]

  sometimes it's it's puzzling to me but [TS]

  like I said I think both of us have very [TS]

  us centric views of the world I totally [TS]

  think I know I do so but microwaves are [TS]

  not ubiquitous huh apparently not then [TS]

  again you know if you write about [TS]

  anything someone will this is what the [TS]

  show is gonna be about eventually [TS]

  someone somewhere will will object or [TS]

  have a counter-argument you don't know [TS]

  if that person is representative [TS]

  anything except for themselves or their [TS]

  one you know pet peeve with there's been [TS]

  times I've had three microwaves yeah [TS]

  just for convenience sake I don't want [TS]

  to walk to that into the kitchen I'll [TS]

  get one for this I don't even want to go [TS]

  to the kitchen we'll put one in here the [TS]

  bathtub chicken in every pot a microwave [TS]

  in every room but one in the car in case [TS]

  you want to eat while you're driving [TS]

  alright the next one [TS]

  Apple's online stuff that was actually [TS]

  the last show episode 10 yeah a couple [TS]

  of quick points in this a lot of people [TS]

  pointed out that Google has exchanged [TS]

  support for the iPhone like you connect [TS]

  you tell your iPhone to connect to it as [TS]

  if it's an exchange server and her email [TS]

  pretends like it is right and there were [TS]

  suggestions that that might work better [TS]

  than trying to pop or IMAP from it I've [TS]

  been a little bit afraid to try it [TS]

  because when I go to the link that been [TS]

  provided by a bunch of people it seems [TS]

  to want to sync everything like my [TS]

  contacts on my counter does it does and [TS]

  I do not want [TS]

  do that because Google's Gmail's [TS]

  contacts are horrible because every [TS]

  person you email to or receive email [TS]

  from seemingly ends up in your address [TS]

  book with an email only entry and that [TS]

  drives me nuts I want my email book to [TS]

  be you know to use the word the last two [TS]

  years curated I pick the people that are [TS]

  in it and I you know tell their entries [TS]

  and that's it and I do not want every [TS]

  single person although complete can put [TS]

  those people in there when I start [TS]

  typing an email address that then it can [TS]

  suggest anyone I've ever emailed to or [TS]

  from but I don't want them on my [TS]

  contacts list so the last thing I ever [TS]

  want to do it allow Google contacts to [TS]

  flood out like a bunch of green aliens [TS]

  swarming oh yeah you do have the ability [TS]

  I believe in the chat room seems to be [TS]

  saying is to you have the ability to [TS]

  control what actually gets synced but [TS]

  I'm with you I don't yeah it's not where [TS]

  I figured that ability had to be in [TS]

  there but I'm still just worried of [TS]

  trying it because it like if I get it [TS]

  wrong or I don't turn it off and [TS]

  accidentally sync once yeah you know it [TS]

  I got it I'll be spending an hour [TS]

  cleaning out my contacts because I [TS]

  didn't find the right check Bob you [TS]

  should you should be wary of it [TS]

  yeah so I use the web UI for that on the [TS]

  phone too [TS]

  and another person pointed out a bunch [TS]

  of people actually and I should have [TS]

  remembered this because I remember when [TS]

  it happened but apples a calendar update [TS]

  remember when they had that new MobileMe [TS]

  calendar with new UI looks like the iPad [TS]

  you guys sure the beckylyn well the [TS]

  external feature is like oh look this [TS]

  new UI and looks fancy use a sprout core [TS]

  whatever they're using under the covers [TS]

  it looks like the iPad but the other [TS]

  change internally is that apparently [TS]

  it's server canonical now it's not like [TS]

  you know that the devices are the [TS]

  canonical representations and they use [TS]

  the computers the way point it's the [TS]

  server is the source of truth and [TS]

  everybody else sinks down from that so [TS]

  it was like a double change there the UI [TS]

  and the model and that would be good for [TS]

  me if I actually see whose MobileMe [TS]

  calendar but I don't and the reason I [TS]

  don't is and again this is this is a [TS]

  barrier for Apple not so much based on [TS]

  fact but on perception my perception is [TS]

  that if I do [TS]

  MobileMe calendar well can other people [TS]

  see my calendar and can I share with [TS]

  them do they have to be mold me [TS]

  subscribers you know I we pay from old [TS]

  me for the house but we don't do a [TS]

  family plan we just have my one account [TS]

  yeah and so then I get a calendar but my [TS]

  wife doesn't have MobileMe calendar so [TS]

  do we want to upgrade to the family plan [TS]

  so she can get a mold me calendar and [TS]

  then what about all my other relatives [TS]

  they have to get a mobile me or can it [TS]

  sync with Google calendars or you know [TS]

  all these questions may have answers [TS]

  that that satis [TS]

  you know yes you can do this no it's not [TS]

  a problem this is you can do this is [TS]

  just fine [TS]

  but the fact that I don't know and have [TS]

  no good way to find out without like [TS]

  paying and trying it keeps me away from [TS]

  it and mainly the thing keeps me way is [TS]

  that I used Google Calendar for free I [TS]

  know every single person use it we can [TS]

  share all these calendars among our [TS]

  family in school and whatever else we're [TS]

  sharing calendars with there's no [TS]

  barrier to entry it's again it's the for [TS]

  pay model versus the the free with ads [TS]

  model and the free with ads model is a [TS]

  lot easier to sort of go viral then [TS]

  trying to convince everyone you know to [TS]

  pay nine dollars a year for I'm old me [TS]

  so they can use the fancy web UI that [TS]

  bothers me about the family pack to like [TS]

  the family pack is better than when they [TS]

  didn't have it because no one's going to [TS]

  pay $100 a year for every single person [TS]

  in their family but it still bothers me [TS]

  that like if you only pay $100 a year [TS]

  yeah you can get multiple email accounts [TS]

  but you only get one of the good stuff [TS]

  you get like one set of contacts and you [TS]

  know one calendar and what you don't [TS]

  it's not a multi-user thing but just [TS]

  having another email addresses someone [TS]

  doesn't give them the full mobile me [TS]

  experience and then maybe I would pay [TS]

  for the family plan like mobile me more [TS]

  but no one else really cares about [TS]

  syncing everyone else uses free web [TS]

  services and I just use the mobile me [TS]

  sync stuff so the last bit of follow-up [TS]

  was also from the online thing and [TS]

  that's about one of the points I made [TS]

  later in the show I thought about it it [TS]

  was another aspect of that that I should [TS]

  have talked about I want to talk about [TS]

  it now I made the point that Google's [TS]

  operations were its biggest advantage in [TS]

  terms of like data centers and how to [TS]

  run that was when you're quizzing me [TS]

  about it right yeah and I asked you what [TS]

  you thought it was and a lot of people [TS]

  would say like what's their search [TS]

  algorithm or they're great at selling [TS]

  advertising or whatever but I was saying [TS]

  that their biggest advantage is that [TS]

  operation stuff and there was an aspect [TS]

  of it that didn't don't think I quite [TS]

  focused on enough and I want to revisit [TS]

  it it's not so much it's not just the [TS]

  stuff that we talked about in terms of [TS]

  how they manage the data center is how [TS]

  they buy commodity hardware and have [TS]

  tweaked it so they have these custom [TS]

  things and they build everything so the [TS]

  machines can fail and stuff like that [TS]

  they that is all true but the key thing [TS]

  that's an advantage to them is that that [TS]

  stuff is not off-the-shelf stuff it's [TS]

  not as if if you want to do to be in [TS]

  make a similar business where you're in [TS]

  cloud computing or whatever you [TS]

  study up read a bunch of books read a [TS]

  lot on the web and then just you know [TS]

  get some combination of like nginx [TS]

  MongoDB memcache my sequel Oracle and [TS]

  like combine it together with best [TS]

  practices and come up with something [TS]

  like Google the Google does not use that [TS]

  stuff or rather uses that stuff in [TS]

  limited capacities but it's sort of you [TS]

  know it's custom it's not off-the-shelf [TS]

  they're not using the same open-source [TS]

  software as everyone else for the most [TS]

  part ah in some cases they even like [TS]

  with go they even invent their own stuff [TS]

  right and that's from saying it's all [TS]

  their own stuff that they're inventing [TS]

  for them for the hardcore you know [TS]

  infrastructure and that's why the the [TS]

  strategy you should do a Google does if [TS]

  you have an online business Google's [TS]

  created operations you should do just [TS]

  what they do you can't do what they do [TS]

  because they're not you know everyone [TS]

  thinks if you're starting a web 2.0 [TS]

  startup just figure out what what the [TS]

  best practices are and look at what [TS]

  everyone else is using and just you know [TS]

  hire a bunch of people who can figure it [TS]

  out and build something on that but if [TS]

  you're gonna imitate Google you can't do [TS]

  that because you can't you don't access [TS]

  to the stuff that they have access to [TS]

  they're the only ones with this [TS]

  technology and it's kind of like a [TS]

  secret weapon in like a world where all [TS]

  the weapons are increasingly open where [TS]

  everybody has access to all these open [TS]

  source you know infrastructure things [TS]

  everybody can use Apache ever and can [TS]

  can look at the latest greatest know [TS]

  sequel database and you know give it a [TS]

  spin you know anybody can use my sequel [TS]

  anybody can buy Oracle but you don't [TS]

  have access to those things that Google [TS]

  has and there are some open source [TS]

  alternatives like people see what Google [TS]

  has and like go find Google you're not [TS]

  going to give us that thing what we're [TS]

  going to write Hadoop to try to make [TS]

  something that's similar to what you [TS]

  have and there are cases where Google [TS]

  make something and releases it like go [TS]

  they invent this language and say here [TS]

  you want to use go go nuts with it have [TS]

  fun but for the most part its core [TS]

  infrastructure stuff is not distributed [TS]

  as open-source software and it's and [TS]

  it's there you know key advantage here [TS]

  and it's kind of like like it's a [TS]

  question of how big a lead do they have [TS]

  because eventually the open source stuff [TS]

  will catch up with this or they'll [TS]

  release it as open source buthe they [TS]

  won't see it as so much of a competitive [TS]

  advantage anymore or you know the world [TS]

  will move on in some other way but they [TS]

  do have what feels kind of like apples [TS]

  10-ish year lead and the GUI where Apple [TS]

  had the best yeah for a you know that is [TS]

  a big lead in everybody else and they [TS]

  you know you could say they took [TS]

  advantage that elite a little bit to [TS]

  make tons of money the 90s but they also [TS]

  kind of squandered it I'm wondering what [TS]

  Google will do with its lead because it [TS]

  it had especially you know three or four [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  just a humongous lead on everybody in [TS]

  terms of operations there's still ahead [TS]

  but I feel like people are kind of [TS]

  catching up well and I fear ially if you [TS]

  think about it what you can do with the [TS]

  cloud services that are out there today [TS]

  whether it's with Rackspace or Amazon or [TS]

  or whoever it it really is possible to [TS]

  all of a sudden scale up really really [TS]

  really quickly to unimaginable sizes [TS]

  sizes that you never in a million years [TS]

  could have gotten to you can do that now [TS]

  just literally by by checking some boxes [TS]

  and hitting submit with a credit card [TS]

  and I'm not saying that people can go [TS]

  and compete with Google and now that's [TS]

  the minor leagues though the minor [TS]

  league is it easier to go from zero to [TS]

  pretty darn big with your minor league [TS]

  things but if you want to go to the [TS]

  major leagues like I'm thinking of [TS]

  another company that's at Google scale [TS]

  think of maybe Facebook and I they [TS]

  invent some stuff on their own with the [TS]

  most part they're using commodity stuff [TS]

  but it really depends the nature of your [TS]

  application but the bottom line is that [TS]

  all these companies you have to control [TS]

  your own destiny something somewhat and [TS]

  I wouldn't I wouldn't want to base my [TS]

  whole business on anybody's cloud thing [TS]

  on ec2 or on Amazon's own app engine or [TS]

  anything like that at a certain point [TS]

  when you get to a certain size that [TS]

  becomes a liability you either have to [TS]

  buy the company that you're relying on [TS]

  you know we're using this Amazon ec2 [TS]

  which we just buy Amazon or you have to [TS]

  roll your own because it's just too much [TS]

  of a risk to have something that [TS]

  critical relying on another party so you [TS]

  have to either roll your own out of [TS]

  open-source parts or commercial parts or [TS]

  build it all yourself and that's why [TS]

  Google is up there on its throne with [TS]

  it's all its custom stuff that it is [TS]

  honed over years and years that it [TS]

  continues to improve a lot of which the [TS]

  key parts are not available of the [TS]

  people and they say ok you know come at [TS]

  us you want a facebook you want to do [TS]

  with huge swarms of servers with PHP on [TS]

  them and some weird database stuff that [TS]

  you invent yourself you know we'll we'll [TS]

  take that bet and again not that [TS]

  infrastructure alone makes you succeed [TS]

  but it's a I think it's a big part of [TS]

  why Google it's a Google's biggest [TS]

  advantage and the other part of this is [TS]

  you just do what Google does it's kind [TS]

  of the equivalent sort of useless advice [TS]

  to the advice to you hero just do what [TS]

  Apple does and for the same reasons [TS]

  because when people say Joe you should [TS]

  just do what Apple does look what Apple [TS]

  does and copying them not so much copy [TS]

  what they do but like the [TS]

  fee of the company and what companies do [TS]

  there's sort of like a concrete part and [TS]

  an intangible part and the concrete part [TS]

  of what Apple does you can write a [TS]

  little business books about and copy [TS]

  like the concrete parts are simplicity [TS]

  don't have like a million products a [TS]

  vertical integration and control the [TS]

  whole step don't ship bad products kill [TS]

  a bad products before they get out get [TS]

  out the door like those are concrete [TS]

  things that any business can do it you [TS]

  sell doorknobs you sell whatever you [TS]

  sell there's some lessons to be learned [TS]

  from what Apple does then maybe that [TS]

  will help you succeed in your business [TS]

  but the things that help you more that [TS]

  are the intangibles and you can't copy [TS]

  those I'll just do what Apple those make [TS]

  really good products make the right [TS]

  decisions about what features to include [TS]

  what features not to include and figure [TS]

  out what people want before they even [TS]

  know that they're gonna want it [TS]

  themselves you know it that stuff you [TS]

  can say it but you can't copy it in the [TS]

  same way that you can say oh you know [TS]

  write your own infrastructure software [TS]

  just like Google does and make it [TS]

  awesome uh yeah how do I do that again [TS]

  it's it's it's tough to copy greatness [TS]

  this and so whenever these decks see [TS]

  these things of like you know do what [TS]

  Apple does and you will succeed [TS]

  half of that is true and then half of it [TS]

  it's like you know so the great [TS]

  instruction on how to avoid sexual [TS]

  harassment in the workplace step one be [TS]

  handsome succeed like Apple be handsome [TS]

  it's the truth all right I think that's [TS]

  all my follow up I just I felt like I'm [TS]

  on the Google thing we just spent too [TS]

  much time talking about data center not [TS]

  enough about that software secret weapon [TS]

  Indiana it gets a big deal do you [TS]

  understand sir we want to go on to the [TS]

  main topic I would like to I would like [TS]

  to do the sponsor I think because it's [TS]

  kind of relates you're kind of talking [TS]

  about codes and algorithms and that's [TS]

  kind of what our sponsor is so we've had [TS]

  we've had MailChimp as a sponsor before [TS]

  but this is something that they're doing [TS]

  it that's pretty cool [TS]

  they've launched a 1 million dollar [TS]

  integration fund for developers million [TS]

  bucks they're giving away so this is how [TS]

  it works are accepting applications from [TS]

  anybody who's interested in building an [TS]

  integration on MailChimp platform this [TS]

  can be an app that you've already built [TS]

  that you want to integrate with [TS]

  MailChimp it could be a web app can be [TS]

  iOS it could be Android whatever you [TS]

  want all it has to do is integrate with [TS]

  the MailChimp platform you go to [TS]

  MailChimp comm slash in agree [TS]

  raishin fund and they will give you I [TS]

  don't know if they give them though I [TS]

  don't think they give the million bucks [TS]

  to one person I think they spread it out [TS]

  a little bit but you could get a lot of [TS]

  money you could get it quite a bit of [TS]

  money because they're giving away a [TS]

  million dollars and all you do is go [TS]

  there you enter you can fill in a few [TS]

  blanks tell them about your app and then [TS]

  they give you some money they don't want [TS]

  equity the value to them is that you're [TS]

  using their platform and that's it no [TS]

  pay to do it so go to MailChimp comm [TS]

  slash integration fund and get it I [TS]

  don't know part of a million bucks seems [TS]

  like that's what people should be doing [TS]

  it's building apps these days why what a [TS]

  world we live in that that the big thing [TS]

  that a company wants to sell you is no [TS]

  longer like buy our widget so much is [TS]

  build on our platform matter who you are [TS]

  no matter what your business is use our [TS]

  API that's kind of the buzzword thing [TS]

  like do you have an API whatever but it [TS]

  really is true in the non buzzword sense [TS]

  that people are realizing to the big [TS]

  success comes from platforms and it's [TS]

  it's an interesting change from when you [TS]

  just make a product and sell it from [TS]

  your deck exactly exactly so now what's [TS]

  our main topic today the mystery topic [TS]

  about to be unveiled the mystery [TS]

  ingredient is it's not a mystery because [TS]

  you named use requested it last week [TS]

  I've already forgotten what was yeah you [TS]

  forgot to ask you if you could explain [TS]

  what you think the topic is that you [TS]

  tell me is it name of it and it'll [TS]

  explain it ah was the crust it was the [TS]

  topic that you think is about like [TS]

  online criticism and stuff okay what's [TS]

  the title I don't know I don't have my [TS]

  own in the topic list I don't think we [TS]

  had in topic WestEd like all the other [TS]

  topics it's based on some article [TS]

  article usually the title of the article [TS]

  that I wrote was hyper critical which is [TS]

  what the show is named after I really [TS]

  thought we do this is topic is the very [TS]

  first episode to kind of explain you [TS]

  know what is it that we're going to do [TS]

  on this podcast or whatever but we would [TS]

  use cross the the ten mark so maybe this [TS]

  is proof that we would you know we [TS]

  executed first right we delivered we [TS]

  shipped it now we'll explain it you [TS]

  shake the kinks out for the first time [TS]

  episodes but yeah if you made through [TS]

  ten episodes and can't figure out what [TS]

  the hell it is we're doing here we'll [TS]

  try to explain it right well I think [TS]

  people have the gist of it but uh so [TS]

  I'll just dive right in here so this [TS]

  this article when I wrote it was another [TS]

  one of those things that was stewing in [TS]

  my head for a long time and is oh I want [TS]

  to give my disclaimer before we go into [TS]

  this this probably qualifies as a non [TS]

  tech topic so if you're here to hear [TS]

  about technology stuff and how we like [TS]

  our iPads and Technology business and [TS]

  industry stuff now would be a time to [TS]

  you know perhaps listen to another [TS]

  podcast but if you do like non tech [TS]

  topics that's what this show is going to [TS]

  be about I think it's been you know five [TS]

  episodes since our last non tech show [TS]

  this one is mostly non tech so but it [TS]

  very much relates to tech though it's [TS]

  not it's not tech in the sense that [TS]

  we're not going to be talking about [TS]

  firewire 800 connectors right but it's [TS]

  very very centred on technology it [TS]

  relates to online but it's more [TS]

  touchy-feely than that it's like it's [TS]

  it's edging into Merlin's own you know I [TS]

  don't think it is not that far we'll see [TS]

  how we go okay so where was that now [TS]

  like I said this is a topic that I [TS]

  wanted to write about for a long time [TS]

  but I held off on because it was non [TS]

  techie you like because I don't want to [TS]

  write on ARS technica so much about [TS]

  things that don't have to do with the [TS]

  computer industry because they're like [TS]

  you write it on your personal blog it's [TS]

  not it's not appropriate for our stanca [TS]

  but in the end I thought this was [TS]

  appropriate and I had an apple angle to [TS]

  it so I just did it and when I wrote the [TS]

  article I tweeted the the URL and I said [TS]

  I said here's the article wherein I [TS]

  liken myself to both Steve Jobs in [TS]

  Wolverine and I said that hoping that it [TS]

  would be so ridiculous that they would [TS]

  be intriguing to people and be they [TS]

  would realize that that I thought it was [TS]

  ridiculous that I was comparing myself [TS]

  to Steve Jobs him over ranae because I'm [TS]

  not Steve Jobs and be because Wolverine [TS]

  his fictional character he's a superhero [TS]

  or whatever but apparently I was not [TS]

  ridiculous enough because many many [TS]

  people took that seriously and I had to [TS]

  deal with all the you know this guy [TS]

  thinks he's Wolverine Steve Jobs rolled [TS]

  into one which is kind of part of the [TS]

  topic of this whole thing about when you [TS]

  write anything a lot what kind of [TS]

  feedback do you get so I'm going to sort [TS]

  of take you through the article but you [TS]

  haven't read because it's too long I [TS]

  know and you don't like all those words [TS]

  and do you have a lot there's a lot you [TS]

  have to click through every individual [TS]

  page you're a premier subscriber tower [TS]

  stacking that you would not have to [TS]

  click through pages because everything [TS]

  will be all on one page I guess I've [TS]

  just shown my hand [TS]

  that's right you're just you don't value [TS]

  content enough to paper [TS]

  I think up with the RS premier is but [TS]

  it's cheap it's like fifty bucks a year [TS]

  or something anyway that's very [TS]

  affordable you guys do put it but the [TS]

  and then I don't have to click that next [TS]

  yeah well the bad thing about that [TS]

  because I have that turned on is when I [TS]

  go to like my snow leopard review the [TS]

  page Scrolls for like ten years it was a [TS]

  certain point having everything all one [TS]

  page becomes unwieldy didn't all right [TS]

  so the article started with this kind of [TS]

  personal history navel-gazing [TS]

  touchy-feely thing that actually does go [TS]

  somewhere so if you're reading it I [TS]

  would encourage you to power through it [TS]

  and I was talking about when I was a kid [TS]

  about how I had you know I was told that [TS]

  I had artistic talent and I was [TS]

  encouraged to explore my artistic talent [TS]

  and everything and how I later realized [TS]

  that that artistic talent wasn't so much [TS]

  the that wasn't that was like a [TS]

  secondary effect of my ability to see [TS]

  what was wrong with my drawings and even [TS]

  though I was very bad [TS]

  making the drawings I could find the [TS]

  parts that were wrong and correct them [TS]

  so iteratively they would get a little [TS]

  bit better uh and that was my discovery [TS]

  that the actual skill I had was the [TS]

  criticism part and not so much the [TS]

  artistic part which explains why I don't [TS]

  really draw anything today so that was [TS]

  the lead-in and then I went into the [TS]

  meat of it which is about criticism you [TS]

  know more generally like across various [TS]

  industries um the interesting thing I [TS]

  note about criticism is it's a little [TS]

  bit different than you'll see online and [TS]

  will get to be online part at the end is [TS]

  that in general it's accepted that the [TS]

  critics can't do what they're [TS]

  criticizing so like no one expects a [TS]

  movie critic to be able to make a better [TS]

  movie than the movie that criticized no [TS]

  one no one reads a bad review of like [TS]

  transformers 2 and says oh yeah well [TS]

  where's your better movie people [TS]

  understand that you're a movie critic [TS]

  your your job is to you know look at the [TS]

  movie and say what you think you're not [TS]

  responsible for having to be able to [TS]

  make a better movie and so almost [TS]

  certainly you can't and this is true in [TS]

  in and you know almost any mature media [TS]

  that has criticism in it but the critic [TS]

  has a job to it's not to make the movies [TS]

  that try to help people think in new [TS]

  ways about what makes a good movie you [TS]

  know and maybe they'll pick out a movie [TS]

  that you wouldn't otherwise think is [TS]

  good and talk to you about it and [TS]

  explain why they think it's good and it [TS]

  will help you appreciate other movies [TS]

  that [TS]

  that thing and the other side is that [TS]

  that the movie makers themselves are [TS]

  also the audience of the critics so they [TS]

  read reviews and the even is not of [TS]

  their movie they read a movie review and [TS]

  it helps them think more about what [TS]

  makes a good movie and so when they go [TS]

  to make their next movie that critics [TS]

  it's helped them perhaps think of [TS]

  something more interesting or new to do [TS]

  in their next adventure so it's kind of [TS]

  a cycle where everyone looks at these [TS]

  critics complaining about something that [TS]

  was made and the people who make the [TS]

  next round of movies use that to perhaps [TS]

  make their movies better in response to [TS]

  it so that's kind of the the virtuous [TS]

  cycle there right um and creeping up on [TS]

  computers here so the next example I use [TS]

  to try to get closer to the computer [TS]

  side of things and the online side of [TS]

  things our cars it's another thing that [TS]

  I'm into I for reading car magazines [TS]

  since I was a kid I still read them and [TS]

  among the things that that I'm [TS]

  interested in the hobbies and stuff I [TS]

  have I hold up car automotive journalism [TS]

  and car criticism to be sort of the gold [TS]

  standard that tech journalism should [TS]

  apply to enough people read like Auto [TS]

  week or Motor Trend maybe they think [TS]

  this is ridiculous I like car and driver [TS]

  personally there are some rags and in [TS]

  the audio industry is in any big [TS]

  industry but the reason I like the car [TS]

  stuff so much is that cars are like [TS]

  computers and they have tons of tech [TS]

  specs cars have tons of things about [TS]

  them you can measure this 0 to 60 time [TS]

  braking distance lap time 0 to 100 0 the [TS]

  weight the size in the skid pad grip [TS]

  tons and tons of stats and and like [TS]

  computers car magazines obsessively [TS]

  measure the stats sometimes they have an [TS]

  entire page in each car you dedicate [TS]

  just to the stats you can look at all [TS]

  the numbers and they have at the top you [TS]

  know 50 cars from 0 to 60 times and they [TS]

  have the you know highest mileage cars [TS]

  and the lowest mileage cars statistics [TS]

  up the wazoo which looks a lot like [TS]

  computers you know megahertz megabytes [TS]

  hard drive sizes screen size size weight [TS]

  of laptops everything stats everywhere [TS]

  certain kind of guys just like stats and [TS]

  it doesn't seem to matter whether it's [TS]

  cars or computers but the stats thing [TS]

  kind of runs a it's a common thread [TS]

  through all guy stuff it seems yeah and [TS]

  and especially anything that has to do [TS]

  with tech like cars or computers in that [TS]

  this tons of stuff to measure like if [TS]

  you [TS]

  are you know your cigar aficionado it's [TS]

  not a lot of stats there right or like [TS]

  you're into like Ming vases yeah maybe [TS]

  the eight will stop beyond the cigar [TS]

  thing there are actually a lot of stats [TS]

  and a lot of actions but not compared to [TS]

  baseball I don't know enough cigars to [TS]

  know what stats you're measuring you [TS]

  know not nothing like being as you have [TS]

  in cars and baseballers like she's like [TS]

  a length and circumference and chrome [TS]

  you lence uh you definitely would have [TS]

  what they call the the ring gauge of the [TS]

  of the cigar the length which is [TS]

  categorized in a variety of different [TS]

  ways there's the binder the wrapper the [TS]

  wrapper by the way is not the plastic [TS]

  thing that goes around the cigar there's [TS]

  there's a whole bunch of tasting notes [TS]

  and that there's again though it I'm [TS]

  just not so much that is not to that is [TS]

  that let with lab equipment you know [TS]

  yes that's stats are a whole different [TS]

  different thing and they're really you [TS]

  know what sports and cars I think even [TS]

  place in in in a category apart from [TS]

  computers I think I think you find even [TS]

  more stats and those things any wooden [TS]

  computers sports stats are a little bit [TS]

  different I'm thinking mostly of things [TS]

  where there's like a product created by [TS]

  somebody and then there are people [TS]

  responsible and trying to say how [TS]

  successful they were so you make a movie [TS]

  and I tell you how good is the movie and [TS]

  this really not many stats except a [TS]

  running time in that there's lots of art [TS]

  right right you make car and then these [TS]

  car magazines dedicated telling you how [TS]

  good it is and as I was saying before [TS]

  someone in the chat were throughout [TS]

  their road and track makes Car and [TS]

  Driver look like amateur hour [TS]

  I got to say I'm a car and driver guy [TS]

  not not to disparage road and track too [TS]

  much it's good but I'm a car and driver [TS]

  guy I need to always have been get to [TS]

  they're the reasons of that and a little [TS]

  bit I think so the other thing that the [TS]

  car reviews do besides having all these [TS]

  stats especially in Car and Driver is [TS]

  that and this is this is not just you [TS]

  know a recent thing for the entire [TS]

  history of car criticism if you want to [TS]

  call that there's been this really [TS]

  healthy tradition of like insight into [TS]

  what makes a car good far far beyond the [TS]

  stats and the best reviews of cars note [TS]

  all the stats about it but then say what [TS]

  why do we really love or hate this car [TS]

  and it's subjective and that's why [TS]

  people don't like it you get these [TS]

  constant Wars in the car magazines of [TS]

  saying how could you rate this car to be [TS]

  better than this car when look at this [TS]

  one has faster 0-60 time this one has a [TS]

  better fuel mileage and blah blah this [TS]

  thing beats in every possible stat and [TS]

  you said it's [TS]

  better and that's car magazines do not [TS]

  shy away from that I don't and car and [TS]

  driver in particular tends to go with [TS]

  its gut and you can disagree with his [TS]

  gut and say it's you know you [TS]

  touchy-feely stuff and you shouldn't be [TS]

  ever rating this car better than a [TS]

  Corvette because the Corvette beats it [TS]

  in every possible performance measure [TS]

  and you're supposed to be car and driver [TS]

  or how can you say this but that's what [TS]

  they do and they recognize that what [TS]

  makes a car good is not those numbers [TS]

  those numbers help or hurt but that's [TS]

  not the entirety of the car and I don't [TS]

  think that's really up for debate [TS]

  despite the people who get annoyed with [TS]

  their car quote unquote if there are [TS]

  co-write on or on the right into point [TS]

  or other covets their car keeps losing [TS]

  in the comparison so that's another [TS]

  thing car driver there's actual [TS]

  comparisons where they rank the cars [TS]

  first place second place third place [TS]

  fourth place they're willing to do that [TS]

  but they do it based on criteria half of [TS]

  which are completely subjective and [TS]

  especially in the 80s and 90s for [TS]

  computers that was just foreign if you [TS]

  went to a computer magazine they give [TS]

  you the big grid they say one of the [TS]

  megahertz what are the speed what's the [TS]

  price and you know and they rank them [TS]

  based on that and it was not like well [TS]

  this computer is you know slower than [TS]

  the other one it cost more money and has [TS]

  less space but I really like you know [TS]

  the feel of the keyboard it just makes [TS]

  me happy to use it so I'm put in rating [TS]

  at number one that just never never [TS]

  never happened in the computer industry [TS]

  it was computer industry was just you [TS]

  know stats alone and there was not any [TS]

  real debate about if you if you pulled [TS]

  something that in a computer magazine it [TS]

  would be open revolt from the readers [TS]

  they would say this magazine is crap if [TS]

  I wanted to know how happy a computer [TS]

  made you feel um that's not why I'm [TS]

  reading your magazine tell me the stats [TS]

  and rank them in that order just don't [TS]

  rank them at all [TS]

  um I think that hurt computers for a [TS]

  long time the fact that especially when [TS]

  we were kids and everything it was just [TS]

  100% about the stats because it was made [TS]

  by nerds and that's all we cared about [TS]

  and these computers were you know ugly [TS]

  and unpleasant but nobody really cared [TS]

  that much uh and that's it's hurts kind [TS]

  of tech industry criticism like there [TS]

  hasn't been until very very recently [TS]

  this culture of criticism in the sense [TS]

  of like art criticism like movie critics [TS]

  there was only a statistical reporting [TS]

  and that is the reason that comes up and [TS]

  my thoughts a lot is that even the very [TS]

  crappiest car brands like the car brands [TS]

  that by all objective measures that you [TS]

  know they've spent decades making very [TS]

  very bad cars like brands don't even [TS]

  exist anymore like Pontiac and [TS]

  Oldsmobile or and I can name a couple [TS]

  other ones but I will probably already [TS]

  get mail from people about those people [TS]

  are have crazy loyalty to these car [TS]

  brands completely outside the realm of [TS]

  like you know is this a good car is it [TS]

  reliable is it comfortable or whatever [TS]

  there's like Pontiac families but they [TS]

  only get Pontiacs and alls we'll be a [TS]

  families but they only get Oldsmobiles [TS]

  right [TS]

  Ford Chevy's even more crazy and I'm [TS]

  picking these American brands because in [TS]

  the car magazines they were generally [TS]

  considered to be not as good as you know [TS]

  the import rivals and stuff like that [TS]

  and that was the opinion of the car [TS]

  magazines but people love them because [TS]

  they had attachments to cars that had [TS]

  nothing to do with how reliable is it [TS]

  how fast is it you know like there were [TS]

  attributes of the car that made them [TS]

  feel a certain way they want an [TS]

  Oldsmobile because their dad had knows a [TS]

  bill in there and always would be [TS]

  flailing they loved it and it makes them [TS]

  feel good they have an automobile [TS]

  because they know how to fix and also be [TS]

  law they just like the way they look or [TS]

  they like the color they come into like [TS]

  the sound they make when they turn them [TS]

  on or they like the fact that the key is [TS]

  on the floor the sob you know in the [TS]

  middle console because it makes them [TS]

  feel like they're quirky and original [TS]

  mm-hmm like turbo lag whatever it is [TS]

  that they like about the car people [TS]

  don't really you know people are doing [TS]

  that for decades and they didn't really [TS]

  feel i need to defend it you know if you [TS]

  like sobs that's what you like and you [TS]

  get yourself a Saab and it's not like [TS]

  well you know for the same exact amount [TS]

  of money you could have got this car [TS]

  which would have been had more room and [TS]

  at better mileage and you know no one no [TS]

  one has discussions like that but [TS]

  remember when back in the 90s you've got [TS]

  a Mac the site you know for the price [TS]

  that Mac I could have bought - 486 pcs [TS]

  in the way it's as fast they would had [TS]

  twice as much harddrive space and blah [TS]

  blah blah [TS]

  - discussions that you know one [TS]

  discussion who never took place in the [TS]

  car world it always took place happens [TS]

  this day you know even in articles [TS]

  online now if you mentioned anything [TS]

  about Apple stuff they'll tell you what [TS]

  you could have bought for the same money [TS]

  that has better specs so the exception [TS]

  to this as noted on the thing it is [TS]

  Apple the exception of these stats Wars [TS]

  is Apple Apple it sort of took it over [TS]

  there there wasn't this culture of [TS]

  mature criticism of computers it was [TS]

  immature with stats based [TS]

  Apple had to come so they couldn't Apple [TS]

  couldn't rely on that to lift them up [TS]

  they had to come at it from the other [TS]

  and say we're going to make computers [TS]

  that are acknowledged to be slower more [TS]

  expensive you know it does have much as [TS]

  much capacity so on and so forth [TS]

  and we're going to find a way to sell [TS]

  them and become successful with it and [TS]

  it took them a long time of like you [TS]

  that you know they make the iMac it's [TS]

  like yet successful for Apple but you [TS]

  know come on everyone still has a PC [TS]

  right they just kept going and kept [TS]

  going kept going and then when they went [TS]

  into the consumer realm with the iPod [TS]

  and the iPhone and the iPad they finally [TS]

  started to get into a realm where [TS]

  traditionally stats haven't mattered as [TS]

  much and all of a sudden like the [TS]

  playing field is getting a little bit [TS]

  more uh less slanted against Apple [TS]

  saying okay well apples iPods you know [TS]

  might not have all the features you know [TS]

  as you know less space than a Nomad no [TS]

  wireless it's pretty lame right but they [TS]

  you know the consumers didn't care and [TS]

  once they got their toe in that door [TS]

  they just ran with it all right so now [TS]

  we have Apple's products being compared [TS]

  more like cars people buy the pink iPod [TS]

  mini because it's pink and it's cute and [TS]

  I don't really care what the heck the [TS]

  stats are the same reason they write [TS]

  that by a VW Bug or the new VW bug or [TS]

  some Volkswagen Cabriolet convertible [TS]

  which is a piece of crap car cost way [TS]

  too much money because it's durable and [TS]

  they love it you know and it's happen is [TS]

  happening now like this the post PC era [TS]

  consumer devices has always been like [TS]

  that you buy a cell phone because it's [TS]

  because it's a nice-looking or its slim [TS]

  you buy a razor because it looks really [TS]

  cool and futuristic and you feel like [TS]

  you're using a tricorder with it you [TS]

  know stats were not a factor there and [TS]

  computers are becoming like that that's [TS]

  why you're seeing Apple you know zooming [TS]

  up the ranks in the PC realm is that pcs [TS]

  are started into that realm to where [TS]

  they're fast enough and so you're not [TS]

  too worried about stats but man those [TS]

  MacBook Airs sure look slick right and [TS]

  yeah they're more expensive than a [TS]

  netbook but I feel like I'm getting more [TS]

  and the same reason that your Jaguar is [TS]

  more expensive than a Corvette and [TS]

  performs worse I feel like I'm getting [TS]

  more with the Jaguar because it looks [TS]

  awesome and the Jaguar brand has a [TS]

  cachet to it and you know whatever [TS]

  reasons you may like the Jaguar better [TS]

  than the Corvette they have very little [TS]

  to do with stats and the article was [TS]

  talking about how if there had been a [TS]

  healthier environment of mature [TS]

  criticism in the tech industry this [TS]

  would have been an easier road to hoe [TS]

  that pcs wouldn't have been mired in [TS]

  that get over so long where it was just [TS]

  about stats because I think that really [TS]

  hurt the industry was just nerds just [TS]

  complaining about stats and it took [TS]

  a first mover like Apple to break out [TS]

  with the iMac and go completely in that [TS]

  direction arguably they did it already [TS]

  with the Mac of setting we're gonna make [TS]

  a GUI it's easier to use you know it's [TS]

  not a stat you can measure ease of use [TS]

  is not a number we can put on a box what [TS]

  we're telling you this is going to be [TS]

  better trust us and some people did come [TS]

  along with the program but it was a long [TS]

  long road to hoe and still Apple's web [TS]

  and in PC market share but in the [TS]

  consumer electronics that's going the [TS]

  other direction fast and the angle and [TS]

  the article is that Steve Jobs is that [TS]

  made that happen that he was Apple sort [TS]

  of uber critic where there was no [TS]

  external critics there was no external [TS]

  source of the kind of criticism that [TS]

  produces these good products so Steve [TS]

  Jobs had to be the internal critics who [TS]

  would tell people I don't care [TS]

  you know what the storage capacity is or [TS]

  what the megahertz rating is I just want [TS]

  the product to be good in the ways that [TS]

  I care about that have very little to do [TS]

  with stats and by him internal [TS]

  internally facing being that kind of [TS]

  critic it allowed the company to build [TS]

  these products to a different standard [TS]

  than the outside products and again it [TS]

  took a long time for consumers to start [TS]

  to accept those and going into the [TS]

  consumer realm really helped that but [TS]

  from the very beginning he was using his [TS]

  criteria his much more mature criteria [TS]

  of what it is that makes a great product [TS]

  that goes way beyond the numbers and [TS]

  that was trying to give the the value [TS]

  explain the value of criticism in the [TS]

  computer industry I think it wrapped it [TS]

  up with something telling people the [TS]

  value of criticism in their own lives [TS]

  and stuff and that's a more dubious [TS]

  value but I think we'll get into that [TS]

  now with the final bit which is [TS]

  criticism online which I didn't really [TS]

  talk about in the article but I think is [TS]

  kind of the meat of what we want to talk [TS]

  about here because you've talked about [TS]

  it on your other shows as well I think [TS]

  one of the very early build and analyzes [TS]

  with Marco he mentioned that he does not [TS]

  want to blog about tech topics do you [TS]

  remember that conversation yeah yeah [TS]

  just because the repercussions from it [TS]

  are that the feedback is usually [TS]

  incredibly passionate in a frequently [TS]

  negative way yeah and so a lot of people [TS]

  just blog about tech topics but Marcos [TS]

  blog is kind of you know [TS]

  he goes different but it here's what [TS]

  does blog about tough targets he's [TS]

  finding it he gets different types of [TS]

  feedback because once you start talking [TS]

  about [TS]

  things that nerds like I guess or stats [TS]

  and numbers you get a lot of unsolicited [TS]

  advice let's say right if you're just [TS]

  describing this is how I did something [TS]

  hey I had a problem in my house and I [TS]

  wanted to hear music in this room so I [TS]

  set up the server over here to do this [TS]

  and I connected this cable to that thing [TS]

  and I put this off around here and [TS]

  that's how I let myself you know listen [TS]

  to songs in the shower without moving my [TS]

  iTunes through my Mac Mini in the other [TS]

  room right that's your blog post just [TS]

  like I'm sharing something that I that I [TS]

  did what you get in response to that is [TS]

  all the ways that you could have done [TS]

  that differently or better you shouldn't [TS]

  have used this piece of software if you [TS]

  use this you could do that better you [TS]

  know really if you did you pay money for [TS]

  that there's an open-source equivalent [TS]

  that you should have used and you should [TS]

  be using flat files or OGG Vorbis [TS]

  instead of AAC blah blah right then [TS]

  that's the kind version the harsher more [TS]

  harsh version is like I'm I'm running a [TS]

  service that you all use like let me [TS]

  tell you how I set up the Instapaper [TS]

  servers you're all instapaper users and [TS]

  here's what I do for the Instapaper [TS]

  servers for the backup process I think [TS]

  this is actually close to example that [TS]

  he did like here's what I do for the [TS]

  backup process of the instapaper [TS]

  infrastructure and then all these [TS]

  tech-savvy Instapaper users said oh my [TS]

  god you can't do that for your backups [TS]

  you have to do this and that and the [TS]

  other thing my data is safe now and blah [TS]

  blah blah all sorts of you know again [TS]

  unprompted it wasn't like the blog post [TS]

  was like hey guys tell me how you think [TS]

  I should do this it was more like this [TS]

  is how I've done it and I'm sharing it [TS]

  with you and then you get this torrent [TS]

  of feedback um so that's that was Markos [TS]

  problem with it with feedback at least [TS]

  the one that he talked about there the [TS]

  other one was a Gruber I don't know if [TS]

  he's ever talked about this on your [TS]

  podcast but I know he talked about on [TS]

  the Macworld podcast years ago I put the [TS]

  link in the show notes actually link to [TS]

  a blog post links to the the podcast and [TS]

  if you ever talked about the lack of [TS]

  comments on daring fireball with him no [TS]

  that's on my list but I've talked to him [TS]

  about it personally but I don't think [TS]

  we've really done it on the show as a [TS]

  topic yeah he's he's covered in lots of [TS]

  other plate like it's been discussed to [TS]

  death I feel like but it is kind of a [TS]

  long I think he blogged about it [TS]

  tangentially a few times and he did that [TS]

  podcast about it this was about 2006 or [TS]

  something on a long time ago or they [TS]

  just said point bike why don't you have [TS]

  comments that he explained it in a [TS]

  straightforward manner why he doesn't [TS]

  have comments and I'll try to summarize [TS]

  what he said people should listen to the [TS]

  actual podcast to hear you know from [TS]

  horse's mouth so to speak but what he [TS]

  was basically saying is that he's not [TS]

  interested in that type of feedback and [TS]

  he wants to present son of a kind of [TS]

  clean interface to the people who are [TS]

  coming to read daring fireballer the key [TS]

  phrase I remember is that he says when [TS]

  people come to Darren fireball I want [TS]

  them to read every single word on the [TS]

  site and that's and I want to write [TS]

  every single one of those words so it's [TS]

  not you know what some Diouf said you [TS]

  read some really insightful article and [TS]

  the first comment is first post or some [TS]

  you know racist slur or a viagra ad or [TS]

  some other you know it kind of you know [TS]

  takes away from the experience so this [TS]

  is coming from a different angle [TS]

  not so much I don't want to hear what [TS]

  people have to say because it gets time [TS]

  to feedback email I'm sure but I don't [TS]

  want other people's words on my site [TS]

  because this is my site than the [TS]

  experience I want to present is just my [TS]

  words in the amount that I want them and [TS]

  you know you have your own site for [TS]

  putting your own stuff on you know it [TS]

  shows I think it shows there's so many [TS]

  people who say that without without [TS]

  providing users a channel to interact [TS]

  with you that you'll never be successful [TS]

  and yet I would say he has been by any [TS]

  measure well the thing is there's so [TS]

  many channels to interact with him it's [TS]

  not as if he's like the Internet is [TS]

  still there yeah now hum you can do your [TS]

  own blog post you know he's got his [TS]

  vanity Google search going like crazy so [TS]

  if you link to him he'll find you and [TS]

  read what you have to say it's not as if [TS]

  he's like in a cocoon like I don't want [TS]

  to hear what anybody's saying right you [TS]

  want that there doesn't want a sign on [TS]

  it that those are his words right that's [TS]

  it so now these two these two stances on [TS]

  comments I'm gonna give you my take on [TS]

  it in light of that whole thing we just [TS]

  talked about with criticism ah and what [TS]

  I'm going to say is true for me just as [TS]

  it's just as what Gruber Marco said is [TS]

  true for them so it's not an endorsement [TS]

  of one particular philosophy or the [TS]

  other is really just you know another [TS]

  viewpoint into the stew here now my [TS]

  articles that ours do have comments [TS]

  every article at RSS comments which I [TS]

  subset would you like an I love comments [TS]

  now ours kinda has the best of both [TS]

  worlds in it when you look at an article [TS]

  at ours you don't see a single comment [TS]

  so that gets rid of the stupid thing [TS]

  where someone gets to the end of your [TS]

  wonderful insightful article and then [TS]

  the next sentence they read is something [TS]

  horrible and offensive stupid and [TS]

  obnoxious you don't even see those [TS]

  because it's you [TS]

  to click to see the comments so it has [TS]

  the advantage of a site that's not you [TS]

  know wrapped up with other people's [TS]

  inane words but I do like to see the [TS]

  comments on what I write and I love the [TS]

  comments I love everything about the [TS]

  comments I love the good comments left [TS]

  the bad comments I love everything [TS]

  because in light of this whole criticism [TS]

  thing when I see comments and anything [TS]

  that I write I want to see people [TS]

  criticizing it or trying to criticize it [TS]

  or saying what they didn't like about it [TS]

  and individually those comments may be [TS]

  you know this guy didn't understand what [TS]

  I was saying this guy is has some other [TS]

  axe to grind or this is totally wrong or [TS]

  whatever but in aggregate combined [TS]

  together if you if you write a big thing [TS]

  and it's 50 of the 400 people who [TS]

  comment all have some particular [TS]

  complaint whether you disagree with that [TS]

  or not I feel like that's time to figure [TS]

  out what it is that they're on about [TS]

  like my view is that in aggregate [TS]

  there's some kernel of truth underlying [TS]

  every negative thing said about you [TS]

  online and doesn't mean what they say is [TS]

  true it may mean maybe like a [TS]

  third-order effect where they're mad [TS]

  about X and then made them mad about Y [TS]

  and then they said Z and Z you know you [TS]

  can say well the Z is totally not true [TS]

  well so why are they saying that why why [TS]

  are some large percentage of people [TS]

  complaining about this what what is [TS]

  possibly true about a milder version is [TS]

  that if someone says this thing was too [TS]

  long or I was bored or you talked about [TS]

  topic X for too long [TS]

  one or two guys are always going to say [TS]

  that right but if half your audience [TS]

  says you talked about X for too long [TS]

  it's time to think about that is it time [TS]

  to say maybe I did think about X too [TS]

  long no maybe you just talked about it [TS]

  and didn't make it interesting enough or [TS]

  maybe you didn't do a good job of [TS]

  explaining why it was relevant or you [TS]

  know the 50 other reasons to think about [TS]

  what what the problem might be but you [TS]

  know I there's tremendous value in that [TS]

  feedback now that feedback and come by [TS]

  email too but I found that the comment [TS]

  feedback tends to be like more more evil [TS]

  more evil than email feedback II people [TS]

  email you generally tend to be pull up [TS]

  more polite than comment stuff because [TS]

  there's no audience that was the I [TS]

  should link to this the took a point [TS]

  really good point [TS]

  Gabriel some something something Gabriel [TS]

  law of Internet dickwads help me out uh [TS]

  nice zip it's a penny it's a penny [TS]

  arcade's strip and basically it's a [TS]

  blackboard with an equation that says [TS]

  anonymity plus audience equals jerk [TS]

  although I think it uses a more harsh [TS]

  word and it's the fact that everyone can [TS]

  read KJ Healy says internet dick one [TS]

  theory yeah it has a longer name to [TS]

  someone from the chatroom we'll get it [TS]

  eventually I'll put it in the show notes [TS]

  but the fact that comments are out there [TS]

  for everybody to read and have an [TS]

  audience that makes people misbehave [TS]

  because they're not they're not just [TS]

  communicating with you comments are [TS]

  communicating with you and they know [TS]

  that everyone else is going to read the [TS]

  comments too so they have an audience [TS]

  for stuff so it's very different from [TS]

  email where they think they have the [TS]

  only expectations that you are you're [TS]

  the person who's going to read this they [TS]

  are writing for you but they're also [TS]

  writing for their audience to try to [TS]

  pump themselves up in the eyes of their [TS]

  audience to try to make themselves feel [TS]

  better about themselves for putting down [TS]

  some popular writer in a comment type of [TS]

  you know atmosphere speaking about [TS]

  someone put in the in the chat room and [TS]

  I already have in the show notes the [TS]

  daring fireball with comments Safari [TS]

  extension have you ever seen that yeah I [TS]

  have yeah that's that's great and I [TS]

  actually run that sometimes I'm sure [TS]

  Gruber hates that but because I want to [TS]

  see what people people have to say now [TS]

  if obviously a self-selected audience of [TS]

  people with an axe to grind against crib [TS]

  or whatever but every once in a while I [TS]

  fire it up and I peek at what people are [TS]

  commenting on the articles most of them [TS]

  are bad because again it's self selected [TS]

  for people who are inclined not to like [TS]

  stuff but every once in a while this is [TS]

  a little you know funny nugget in there [TS]

  or insightful nugget buried in and all [TS]

  the the dreck but it just goes to show [TS]

  how desperate people are to have an [TS]

  audience in a place on a popular site [TS]

  via uh and and so the other thing about [TS]

  comments aside from email is that it's [TS]

  less of a barrier then then sending an [TS]

  email certainly less of a barrier than [TS]

  doing your own response blog post and [TS]

  again that's good in bed it's good that [TS]

  there's a barrier because it keeps out [TS]

  the people who just have one stupid [TS]

  comment to say they're not going to do a [TS]

  whole blog post about their one stupid [TS]

  snarky thing and they're probably not [TS]

  even going to email you their snarky [TS]

  thing but if there's a comment box of [TS]

  the bottom an article that put it there [TS]

  but there's also advantages to that low [TS]

  barrier and one of the advantages is [TS]

  that you get things like typos or [TS]

  factual errors reported really fast [TS]

  because people who know too factual are [TS]

  when they're reading like you have that [TS]

  finger laziness we're like all done so I [TS]

  want to I want to start a new email find [TS]

  the [TS]

  guys email address and send an email and [TS]

  type it in and put a subject line [TS]

  duelist you know it seems like more work [TS]

  but if I can just scroll to the bottom [TS]

  of this box type in my name or if I'm [TS]

  already logged into the site with some [TS]

  other thing and hit it button on the [TS]

  same page that I'm already reading I can [TS]

  say hey you left that letter e on this [TS]

  thing or hey you missed a semicolon [TS]

  there or actually you know this thing [TS]

  came out in this year and not in that [TS]

  year and in the magic of online [TS]

  publishing it's great to have that [TS]

  feedback as fast as possible and with [TS]

  the biggest volume is possible the [TS]

  comments are kind of like the chatroom [TS]

  of the the you know the 5x5 chatroom of [TS]

  the the world of static writing instead [TS]

  of podcasting you get this audience of [TS]

  people collaborating to help you improve [TS]

  your article in the first five minutes [TS]

  that it's up right so the comments start [TS]

  streaming in the errors and typos go in [TS]

  there you fix them you refresh the [TS]

  article and then you respond to them in [TS]

  the comments and say that you fix them [TS]

  and by the time the you know mm person [TS]

  comes along a lot of the obvious errors [TS]

  are gone and that's definitely something [TS]

  I appreciate from from comments where [TS]

  there's a low barrier to entry to [TS]

  writing them up and the final thing I [TS]

  have in this is something that came up a [TS]

  few times in email and in the chat room [TS]

  about the music that precedes this show [TS]

  we had it was a lot of feedback about [TS]

  that surprisingly yeah as we talked [TS]

  about on the show if you Don so people [TS]

  have it opinion with you like what was [TS]

  the old song I forget what the name of [TS]

  it was Rondo by Marais I think these are [TS]

  both words that are not English so I [TS]

  cannot pronounce them correctly so I [TS]

  died all right I just do it once but [TS]

  that's people people called the obonda [TS]

  masterpiece theater yes it was a [TS]

  reminiscent of that yeah and the new one [TS]

  is some what is it a Mozart thing I [TS]

  don't remember yeah that's a gallon it [TS]

  is it is now what you wanted it to be [TS]

  yeah and so originally when you were [TS]

  looking at classical music themes you [TS]

  you through went out to me and you said [TS]

  what do you think of this one for [TS]

  classical music and I did my typical [TS]

  Hemant hawing about how I didn't want [TS]

  any music at all but if we had to pick [TS]

  one that one is fine but then when the [TS]

  show came out you had put a different [TS]

  song in front of it either because you [TS]

  forgot what I suggested or because you [TS]

  just picked a different one I just [TS]

  picked it like I'm I can I complained [TS]

  about it and then so you you brought [TS]

  back the one that I originally had [TS]

  picked right more recent shows so let me [TS]

  get some email some people [TS]

  I like the new song it's great other [TS]

  people saying oh I missed the old song [TS]

  so what do I do with this feedback like [TS]

  it's not comments of his people [TS]

  you know emailing or whatever but what [TS]

  do I do with this criticism I've got [TS]

  criticism 50/50 in both sides and I've [TS]

  got my own opinion that I just like the [TS]

  new one better but hearing enough people [TS]

  say that they like the old one better [TS]

  makes me think why why do they like the [TS]

  old but they're like the olden better [TS]

  just because it's the first one they [TS]

  associated with the show now they met [TS]

  you know you just fear of change anytime [TS]

  you change anything like you change the [TS]

  interface on a computer people flip out [TS]

  because they're used to the old way or [TS]

  whatever could that be it are you know [TS]

  this probably some truth to that but [TS]

  doesn't give me much actionable stuff to [TS]

  go on so I'm just thinking maybe the [TS]

  people like the old song some people [TS]

  actually cited this and other people [TS]

  didn't because because of the [TS]

  masterpiece theater angle because it [TS]

  sounded so ridiculously pompous and you [TS]

  know silly that we're going to have the [TS]

  show where we're going to complain about [TS]

  stuff as if we're high and mighty and we [TS]

  get to complain about everything right [TS]

  and the music the music added humor [TS]

  value and when I thought about it I [TS]

  thought I kind of had that feeling about [TS]

  the old song - initially I it repelled [TS]

  me because like ah jeez I don't want [TS]

  people to think that it's like [TS]

  masterpiece theater now we will discuss [TS]

  what is wrong with everything because [TS]

  right that's why I picked that song [TS]

  because yeah yeah but but again with the [TS]

  Wolverine Steve Jobs thing it's tough to [TS]

  say whether you know it's you know it's [TS]

  ridiculous and I know it's ridiculous [TS]

  but people can very quickly say this is [TS]

  what they seriously think they're just [TS]

  you know fold themselves so there's that [TS]

  danger in there but I find that I like [TS]

  it wore on me in terms of like I like [TS]

  the humor angle of it eventually when it [TS]

  became clear that people were willing to [TS]

  understand that it was ridiculous to [TS]

  even be thinking that this was sort of a [TS]

  parody type thing that it did have that [TS]

  desirable characteristic and added [TS]

  something to the show so thinking about [TS]

  these people's criticism instead of just [TS]

  saying well I like what I like [TS]

  and it seems to t-50 other way therefore [TS]

  I just go with my opinion it you know [TS]

  accepting criticism not at face value [TS]

  but as as a valid form of feedback that [TS]

  triggers you to think about something [TS]

  gave me a better appreciation for the [TS]

  old song I still like the new one better [TS]

  I still said we stick with the new one [TS]

  but I was even open to saying like when [TS]

  I respond to that guy on Twitter maybe [TS]

  leave it up to Dan maybe does 50/50 [TS]

  maybe maybe he rotated maybe never know [TS]

  what theme is going to be not because [TS]

  again not because I like the old one [TS]

  better than the new one [TS]

  like the new one better but in this type [TS]

  of environment if people like the old [TS]

  one sometimes two maybe would be good to [TS]

  mix it up or something I feel we I feel [TS]

  like I don't I want to just pick [TS]

  something and run with it yeah you want [TS]

  to have you want to have solid type [TS]

  branding and continuity but then you [TS]

  wouldn't have changed at all after [TS]

  tennis I changed it because you were so [TS]

  compatible when oh it's I wanna you know [TS]

  I want to keep you want to keep you [TS]

  happy I know either what I'm saying now [TS]

  is that either one is fine with me I [TS]

  still like the new one better because I [TS]

  think there's less of a chance of it [TS]

  being confused for being sort of [TS]

  attitudinal which definitely is not but [TS]

  some people like the old one - I don't [TS]

  want reams of feedback of people voting [TS]

  for so long they want this is not a [TS]

  democracy you don't get to pick which [TS]

  song it is we'll just work with what we [TS]

  have and if we want want to stick with [TS]

  the new one we'll stick with the new one [TS]

  if you want to change it back to the old [TS]

  one for an episode or two we'll change [TS]

  the back heel one you'll ever know yeah [TS]

  it'll be a surprise you know I feel like [TS]

  I you have you more to say about this [TS]

  thing it's just so much to talk about [TS]

  with with criticism and the whole [TS]

  hypercritical code but I would encourage [TS]

  people to go power their way through it [TS]

  it's not that long it's maybe two three [TS]

  screen folds of stuff it's got some [TS]

  meandering in there but I think there's [TS]

  some some value buried in that flabby [TS]

  thing that I wrote and I would love to [TS]

  actually discuss it with other people [TS]

  have different opinions about criticism [TS]

  because again I gave I gave my view on [TS]

  criticism but really it what it comes [TS]

  down to for individual is if having [TS]

  comments on your site makes you feel bad [TS]

  don't put comments on your site right if [TS]

  not having comments on your site makes [TS]

  you feel bad put them there like [TS]

  whatever there's one issue you didn't [TS]

  address about comments is that is and [TS]

  this is the situation that I ran into on [TS]

  type logic because for many years I had [TS]

  no comments then I brought then I added [TS]

  them and when I added them they worked [TS]

  they were quite popular I mean some [TS]

  posts would get hundreds of comments [TS]

  that was not unusual and most of the [TS]

  posts that I was writing after a while a [TS]

  lot of the time I'd write about [TS]

  technical things and I might do tutorial [TS]

  on day you know how to install MySQL on [TS]

  you know Mac OS tiger [TS]

  for example and this is this is back [TS]

  before homebrew and other things that [TS]

  made it much easier to do that kind of [TS]

  thing but I would I would write these [TS]

  tutorials and any time you write a [TS]

  tutorial it's not going to work for [TS]

  everybody even though you test it and [TS]

  you try it on multiple machines you make [TS]

  sure it works you show it to two people [TS]

  and have them try it and everybody says [TS]

  it works there's always going to be [TS]

  somebody who either they mistyped [TS]

  something they made a mistake they [TS]

  didn't follow every step or there's a [TS]

  there's an install something else [TS]

  installed on their own system that's [TS]

  going to create a problem or an [TS]

  inconsistency or they've already [TS]

  monkeyed around with things now for [TS]

  whatever reason something doesn't work [TS]

  and maybe and legitimately in some cases [TS]

  the instructions have had a few issues [TS]

  here and there too so you know people [TS]

  would find those they're going to post [TS]

  those to the comments well if I don't [TS]

  and and this is true for the [TS]

  non-technical ones too of course but [TS]

  it's even it's even more of an issue for [TS]

  the technical ones because people treat [TS]

  this like oh well that this is the Bible [TS]

  that's the Google said this was the [TS]

  number one result for installing it so I [TS]

  this has to be right and and and what [TS]

  wouldn't be right they would they would [TS]

  put a comment in and say actually I ran [TS]

  this on this system and this is the [TS]

  message I got please help well then I'm [TS]

  a jerk if I don't sit there and reload [TS]

  my comments every single hour of every [TS]

  day and reply to every single person who [TS]

  has a problem and solve it for them now [TS]

  this is a specific unique kind of case [TS]

  right but there are a lot of situations [TS]

  where if you write a piece that is [TS]

  somewhat controversial and I saw this a [TS]

  lot of the time with the comments on on [TS]

  a list apart when I wrote that CMS we [TS]

  would see that a lot that people would [TS]

  you know an author would go and write [TS]

  this piece they they're not even [TS]

  thinking that it's controversial or even [TS]

  you know they're hoping it's interesting [TS]

  enough for people to read it it turns [TS]

  out it they proposed something that's [TS]

  controversial as some CSS thing that oh [TS]

  my gosh I can't believe you would have [TS]

  proposed this and then they'll get [TS]

  hundreds of comments for people [TS]

  basically calling them out or insulting [TS]

  them or or whatever whatever you see in [TS]

  comments and meanwhile the author didn't [TS]

  even know it they just submitted this [TS]

  piece to a list apart and they got told [TS]

  it was going to be published and they're [TS]

  off you know giving some talk in Belgium [TS]

  so [TS]

  it's you know then they look like a jerk [TS]

  because they're not responding they're [TS]

  ignoring people and comments are very [TS]

  much a responsibility I think of the [TS]

  site if not the author too to get in [TS]

  there and and respond and that's the [TS]

  reason why I just don't like comments [TS]

  anymore because to be honest and I've [TS]

  gone back and forth on on the 5x5 site [TS]

  saying yeah I should I should do [TS]

  comments I should put comments there but [TS]

  that's um I want to hear from you about [TS]

  what is is there an obligation as the [TS]

  author as a creator is the owner of a [TS]

  website or a curator to jump in and do [TS]

  that because to two parts of this one is [TS]

  the the more cut-and-dried part but you [TS]

  didn't mention too much with just spam [TS]

  spam by robots or even by people spam is [TS]

  a factor on comments terrible and it's [TS]

  kind of like it's a factor where [TS]

  personal opinion doesn't go into it much [TS]

  I don't think anybody what likes to read [TS]

  spam comments and no one likes to [TS]

  receive them so they're just they're a [TS]

  fact of life like the weather when you [TS]

  sign up for comments you are also [TS]

  signing up for the responsibility of [TS]

  dealing with spam as I would say you [TS]

  can't have comments unless you are [TS]

  willing to take that responsibility so [TS]

  this has nothing to do with personal [TS]

  feelings or anything that is just like [TS]

  you just got a deal with it so right [TS]

  right off the bat that's enough to kill [TS]

  comments on in lots of situations but [TS]

  you can say I love to have comments I [TS]

  love everything about comments but I [TS]

  simply do not have the time to deal with [TS]

  spam yeah and that's you know that's [TS]

  that's cut and dry so we don't need to [TS]

  talk about that too much except for the [TS]

  fact that like like when you asked about [TS]

  comments for the site I I've said to you [TS]

  know don't do comments because do you [TS]

  really have time to deal with all that [TS]

  spam games like you're you know you've [TS]

  got too much other stuff to do [TS]

  it's not along the critical path for now [TS]

  maybe someday later where you can have [TS]

  someone deal with the comments and then [TS]

  that will not be a factor anymore we can [TS]

  talk about other factors right [TS]

  so other factors I've tried ties into [TS]

  what you were saying about your my [TS]

  sequel post but when I talked earlier [TS]

  about doing what feels good for you [TS]

  someone said that it was a cop-out that [TS]

  you know don't be wishy-washy give give [TS]

  strong sort of advice about what you [TS]

  should do is criticism good or bad [TS]

  should you have comments yes or no and [TS]

  again I think they were just being silly [TS]

  but there's there's something to that in [TS]

  that when you were saying about the my [TS]

  sequel thing [TS]

  sequel thing [TS]

  think we're you you post that type of [TS]

  article that goes out of date you don't [TS]

  have I guess you didn't have the [TS]

  comments close on it that's another [TS]

  that's another hedge against this if you [TS]

  have the comments cut off after a [TS]

  certain point when the article gets to a [TS]

  certain age yeah yeah the door closes [TS]

  but yeah ignoring that for now and then [TS]

  someone comes in comments and says they [TS]

  have a problem and what you said is that [TS]

  you said as you know and then I'm the [TS]

  jerk for not helping they look like a [TS]

  jerk to other people who might read this [TS]

  to say hey this guy but these [TS]

  instructions and then people had all [TS]

  these problems and like the bottom 50% [TS]

  of the comments is people complaining [TS]

  about problems and now they think you as [TS]

  the owner of the page or a jerk because [TS]

  you didn't help these people yes well so [TS]

  that that right there is when it changes [TS]

  from let's discuss the value of comments [TS]

  or whatever - how do you feel about [TS]

  because if you feel like a jerk nothing [TS]

  anyone's going to say is going to make [TS]

  you not feel like a jerk you feel like a [TS]

  jerk because you feel like you have a [TS]

  responsibility to those people to help [TS]

  them and you don't want to feel like a [TS]

  jerk so you're not going to do that and [TS]

  there's nothing you can say about well [TS]

  really you should know the comments are [TS]

  just wonderful because they help you [TS]

  learn about what you're doing wrong blah [TS]

  blah blah doesn't matter if you feel [TS]

  like a jerk that means you've decided [TS]

  your value system is that I have a [TS]

  responsibility to the readers of my site [TS]

  to tell this or even if your value [TS]

  system is simply I don't want other [TS]

  people to think I'm a jerk because when [TS]

  they read this it looks like I'm a jerk [TS]

  that that's that's a value judgment on [TS]

  how you feel about something there's [TS]

  nothing inherently jerky I would say [TS]

  objectively about having a blog post at [TS]

  3 years later has a bunch of people who [TS]

  are having problems with it because it [TS]

  is old because like if you have a date [TS]

  header anywhere on that post anyone with [TS]

  a brain can look at it and say well this [TS]

  thing was written in 2004 so yeah you're [TS]

  having problems you know like it there's [TS]

  nothing I would you there's nothing in [TS]

  there that says you know you were doing [TS]

  something that's bad people right but if [TS]

  you feel like you're doing something bad [TS]

  to people it means you hope you feel [TS]

  like you have a responsibility to you [TS]

  know to help people or to help everyone [TS]

  who comes to your side urge at least or [TS]

  maybe you just feel like everyone's [TS]

  ability to not look like you're you know [TS]

  you're a jerk in your own eyes on the [TS]

  site they had some of the personal [TS]

  decision and is a value judgment that [TS]

  has nothing to do with the inherent [TS]

  quality of the comments or the nature of [TS]

  comments everything to do with how you [TS]

  feel as a person about that now I'll [TS]

  give an example for me for me if I was [TS]

  in that situation I would not feel like [TS]

  a jerk because I would say look anybody [TS]

  who comes to this thing and thinks I'm a [TS]

  jerk because a bunch of people in you [TS]

  know a post from [TS]

  2004 are having problems now in 2011 [TS]

  because the instructions don't work for [TS]

  them on their Snow Leopard system anyone [TS]

  who thinks I'm a jerk because they can't [TS]

  read the date header there I'm willing [TS]

  to be a jerk in their eyes so I'm [TS]

  willing to say if you can't figure out [TS]

  that systems change over time and and [TS]

  these instructions don't work you can't [TS]

  be bothered to read the date hitter you [TS]

  can't figure out that this is old then [TS]

  I'm okay with you thinking I'm a jerk [TS]

  because it doesn't bother me in the [TS]

  slightest because I feel like it's not [TS]

  my responsibility to keep everything I [TS]

  ever wrote up to date forever if I wrote [TS]

  instructions and I put this for this [TS]

  version of the software and here's a [TS]

  date header whenever and you can't deal [TS]

  with that I don't I don't feel that [TS]

  problem that all seems they'll with [TS]

  email like some people feel bad when [TS]

  they don't respond to every piece of [TS]

  email and it's like this great personal [TS]

  struggle to get to the point where they [TS]

  can not respond to all their emails I've [TS]

  never felt that profound but I've never [TS]

  felt any compunction to not responding [TS]

  to im's not responding to emails [TS]

  anything like that and it's not because [TS]

  I get so many of them isn't so popular [TS]

  and I just can't deal with the day load [TS]

  it's just simply that I've never had a [TS]

  problem not responding to stuff like [TS]

  that because everyone has their own [TS]

  priorities in terms of how these things [TS]

  make you feel and that's what you have [TS]

  to make the decisions on because you're [TS]

  not here to like conform to everyone [TS]

  else's opinion of what's right or wrong [TS]

  about things you're here to have you [TS]

  know a good time doing whatever is [TS]

  you're doing especially for me where [TS]

  it's mostly recreational this online [TS]

  writing thing and stuff like that I'm [TS]

  you know I have my set of what I feel [TS]

  responsible for and you know putting out [TS]

  good content being correct on the facts [TS]

  and stuff like that but I don't feel [TS]

  that responsibility in terms of [TS]

  communication because if I did I would [TS]

  you know again I don't get that much [TS]

  stuff but if I responded every single [TS]

  email I got it would just take up so [TS]

  much my day and I would just come to [TS]

  dread it and hate it not that it's such [TS]

  a huge volume but a two paragraph email [TS]

  like if I respond to it like really [TS]

  respond to it I respond to it for three [TS]

  pages and every time I do something bad [TS]

  I'm like look I'm responding to one [TS]

  person I'm spending all this time but a [TS]

  big giant response into one person's [TS]

  email and no one is getting benefit of [TS]

  this except for this one guy would would [TS]

  this guy's question be better for me to [TS]

  address in a public forum where whatever [TS]

  it is I have to say about it can be read [TS]

  by the 7 other people who can email me [TS]

  on exactly the same topic you know what [TS]

  I mean it's the same reason that I like [TS]

  most of the 5x5 feedback I do respond to [TS]

  with a one or two liner [TS]

  especially if it's just something simple [TS]

  about hey did you know about this or [TS]

  what about that those are easy to do but [TS]

  mostly what I'll take from those is the [TS]

  ones [TS]

  don't respond to is that I'll throw that [TS]

  into the feedback and like someone [TS]

  wanted to know about this and we'll talk [TS]

  about it on the show where everybody can [TS]

  hear about it I'm drifting off a little [TS]

  bit here but I want to get to visit the [TS]

  whole the whole angle on the comments [TS]

  thing was it the the nugget of truth [TS]

  buried null is whenever you came to the [TS]

  conclusion this happens this happens [TS]

  therefore I'm the jerk I feel like a [TS]

  jerk I feel a responsibility that's [TS]

  everything to do with what you feel [TS]

  about that and that's why I think giving [TS]

  some sort of hard and fast advice of you [TS]

  should always have comments you should [TS]

  never have comments it's pointless [TS]

  because like what are we all doing here [TS]

  we're not we're not here to try to [TS]

  satisfy everyone else's opinion to what [TS]

  we should be doing if we're trying to do [TS]

  what we want to do so decide what you [TS]

  want to do decide what you're [TS]

  comfortable with and do it [TS]

  the whole big thing I said about Y value [TS]

  comments stuff you know people's [TS]

  opinions change so maybe perhaps someone [TS]

  who was on the fence about comments [TS]

  would maybe think well you know that guy [TS]

  was talking about criticism and stuff [TS]

  and how he gets value out of the [TS]

  comments and maybe I'll give it a try [TS]

  because he's pushed me over the edge I [TS]

  was on the fence about it maybe I'll [TS]

  maybe I'll try this out maybe I'll see [TS]

  if I can get a little bit more value [TS]

  from these comments that I did before [TS]

  maybe it will help me to be less [TS]

  offended or less bothered by situations [TS]

  because now I know there's someone else [TS]

  out there who isn't bothered by that you [TS]

  know and it takes a long time like if [TS]

  you haven't been on line for a long time [TS]

  I remember when I first start on the [TS]

  Internet you know typical Internet noob [TS]

  just arguing with everybody getting [TS]

  offended about everything personally [TS]

  identifying with the Mac platform and [TS]

  doing all these Mac Windows PC Wars you [TS]

  know what I mean but after a decade or [TS]

  two of it you tend to develop more of a [TS]

  thick skin but some people never develop [TS]

  it is especially on certain topics like [TS]

  Marco has not developed a thick skin [TS]

  about dealing with what other people [TS]

  have to say about his tech steps [TS]

  otherwise he would just do tech blog [TS]

  post and not really care what the heck [TS]

  anyone else says maybe he'll never get [TS]

  to that point but getting at that point [TS]

  is not like a like a finish line it's [TS]

  like you get a prize for it you feel the [TS]

  way you feel about it's not hurting him [TS]

  in terms of you know is his life choices [TS]

  that he he's you know he gets annoyed by [TS]

  a technical feedback and stuff [TS]

  some people just find things more [TS]

  annoying than other people I the reason [TS]

  I don't find it annoying is because I [TS]

  ignored the same reason that you know [TS]

  Gruber probably doesn't find a lot of [TS]

  his harsh feedback as annoying as other [TS]

  people might think because he's decided [TS]

  that this feedback is you know that he [TS]

  disagrees with it's just so we just have [TS]

  to agree to disagree and it doesn't [TS]

  weigh on him that like it was a certain [TS]

  group of people we feel he should calm [TS]

  he's decided what he wants on his site [TS]

  and he's not put upon but all these [TS]

  people saying you should really have [TS]

  comments you know so that's why I think [TS]

  this really is a personal issue and it's [TS]

  more of a again more of a Merlyn topic [TS]

  than a then perhaps a a tech topic or an [TS]

  Apple topic especially when it comes to [TS]

  to feedback online I don't think it's [TS]

  too far off from your usual stuff but it [TS]

  really comes down and making it sound [TS]

  like maybe you don't yeah maybe you [TS]

  don't care well that's that's part of it [TS]

  the thick-skinned thing is at a certain [TS]

  point especially as you get older you [TS]

  just stop caring about certain things [TS]

  that might have bothered you a lot [TS]

  previously and I'm not even going to say [TS]

  whether that's good or bad but it just [TS]

  is what it is [TS]

  and it changes the decisions you might [TS]

  make about about feedback for four [TS]

  companies it's a little bit different [TS]

  because your main issue was not how do I [TS]

  feel about this but like does this help [TS]

  the company does this hurt the company [TS]

  and you know that becomes a lot more of [TS]

  a dispassionate business decision about [TS]

  weighing the benefits in terms of [TS]

  networking and you know social [TS]

  interfacing and viral marketing a lot of [TS]

  stuff versus the cost of hiring the guy [TS]

  to deal with the spam and hiring the [TS]

  moderator and stuff like that but mostly [TS]

  I'm talking about on the individual [TS]

  basis individual blog right individual [TS]

  you know articles and an individual [TS]

  author responding to comments I also [TS]

  think actually on the comments one more [TS]

  thing on that I really love to be able [TS]

  to interact with the people who read [TS]

  what I write and I find that even like [TS]

  old school newspaper guys love that [TS]

  stuff in that like their entire life you [TS]

  know they they were spent 40 years in [TS]

  the newspaper business and they always [TS]

  run newspaper and then they write online [TS]

  for the first time and they see that [TS]

  first five or six comments appear [TS]

  underneath their thing and they just [TS]

  it's like crack vader's crack it but [TS]

  because for their entire career they'd [TS]

  been giving the copy to the copy boy or [TS]

  wherever the heck I know nothing about [TS]

  the music newspaper industry whatever [TS]

  and it goes off to the presses then it [TS]

  comes out maybe they can see people [TS]

  reading it on the subway and like peer [TS]

  over the shoulder like see if they're [TS]

  smiling or frowning when they're reading [TS]

  my op-ed or my movie review or whatever [TS]

  but it is nothing like write it post it [TS]

  stare at the screen for five minutes hit [TS]

  reload and see 20 people give feedback [TS]

  and that [TS]

  especially to like people who have never [TS]

  been exposed to it like the internet [TS]

  virgins the internet instant feedback [TS]

  virgins like those newspaper guys it is [TS]

  crazy like Roger Ebert is a good example [TS]

  that he was not online but he got hooked [TS]

  big-time with a little instant feedback [TS]

  and stuff like that that's an obvious [TS]

  benefit of comments that if you like [TS]

  that sort of thing [TS]

  it's it's like nothing else and I do [TS]

  like having that feedback and engaging [TS]

  with the readers not engaging to like [TS]

  try to correct them or you know argue [TS]

  with them about things although [TS]

  sometimes that's fun to do too but some [TS]

  people enjoy that kind of engagement [TS]

  some people do not like that kind of [TS]

  engagement and some people feel the [TS]

  responsibility to do that kind of [TS]

  engagement even though they don't enjoy [TS]

  it like well you know if someone asked [TS]

  me a question in the comment I feel like [TS]

  I'm a jerk if I don't respond to them if [TS]

  that's the way you feel and you also [TS]

  don't want to respond to them don't have [TS]

  comments right so I think that's the [TS]

  calculus on that stuff mm-hmm I would [TS]

  love to hear you talk to Merlin about [TS]

  this he touches on it sometimes in some [TS]

  of those things about not letting other [TS]

  people's concept of what they expected [TS]

  you define what you want to do and all [TS]

  that stuff but I would just love to hear [TS]

  him go to town on exactly do haven't do [TS]

  the exactly the same show as mine no but [TS]

  it'll be totally different all in [TS]

  criticism comments that I got loved [TS]

  everybody has to say yeah it sounds like [TS]

  a good topic [TS]

  well crossed you can't really dictate [TS]

  topics damn can you no not really I mean [TS]

  the Royal you like cumulative ly now he [TS]

  comes up with him nobody puts Marlon in [TS]

  a corner it's a great great movie [TS]

  reference wonder who will get that don't [TS]

  eat mail us that will not be the title [TS]

  this episode by the way no no we are you [TS]

  I already have a title his episode what [TS]

  is it I'll tell you afterwards okay but [TS]

  I already picked it I'm queer so I had [TS]

  this week you pick a topic last week I [TS]

  picked the title as soon as you pick the [TS]

  topic nice we're out of the game here we [TS]

  do have a few potential titles Josh I'm [TS]

  sorry Josh I'm gonna toriel your idols [TS]

  I've got one picked Josh tell me tell me [TS]

  what they are we'll throw them out there [TS]

  but yeah I think I think this is um this [TS]

  is such an interesting it is you know it [TS]

  is I guess it is a non-technical topic [TS]

  because it doesn't have to do with fire [TS]

  wire connectors but it very much is I [TS]

  think the kind of thing [TS]

  people think about I mean it you can [TS]

  almost compare it you can think about [TS]

  the way that Apple does it they they [TS]

  they really don't engage with people the [TS]

  way that other companies say you need to [TS]

  and that pisses people off right because [TS]

  people that's exactly the same situation [TS]

  people think they should engage oh I'm [TS]

  one of those people who think they [TS]

  should engage but Apple is not a person [TS]

  so it's kind of like when I say I think [TS]

  they should engage I have reasons that [TS]

  have to do with it would be better for [TS]

  the company if you engaged because then [TS]

  I list a bunch of business reasons it's [TS]

  not the same as an individual but it's [TS]

  the same sentiment is that everyone has [TS]

  their expectations of what other people [TS]

  should do in response to their feedback [TS]

  and if they deviate from those you know [TS]

  they think you know apples a jerk [TS]

  because they don't do you know they [TS]

  don't listen to our feedback or they [TS]

  just put up that Chinese wall or [TS]

  whatever I don't think that's productive [TS]

  especially since Apple is not a person [TS]

  to engage in that [TS]

  but since Apple is not a person I don't [TS]

  think Apple can use the thing of like [TS]

  well we got upset when we were engaged [TS]

  or bother they're not a person is people [TS]

  inside Apple would love to have a more [TS]

  open dialogue and I put these people at [TS]

  Apple who wish they could keep even more [TS]

  stuff secret so as a corporation you [TS]

  have to talk about does this help hurt [TS]

  the company and in what ways and Apple [TS]

  makes its internal calculus and decides [TS]

  this is the kind of public face we want [TS]

  to put on right and I bet they would [TS]

  have pretty strong arguments to back why [TS]

  why they think this is a good idea you [TS]

  know [TS]

  look how successful we've been with the [TS]

  strategy look at the bad things we avoid [TS]

  look at the good things that we get by [TS]

  you know having the Chinese wall and [TS]

  then you'd come back with like well look [TS]

  at the app store thing in the NBA and [TS]

  the ill-will that you got for just not [TS]

  talking about stuff and you can go back [TS]

  and forth on it but since Apple is not a [TS]

  person it's a much it's a much less [TS]

  touchy-feely discussion and much more of [TS]

  a how does this help or hurt your [TS]

  business discussion follow-up knows no [TS]

  bounds source of truth being handsome [TS]

  criticisms virtuous cycle uber critic or [TS]

  uber critical those are all good titles [TS]

  they're just not the one I already have [TS]

  pick tonight [TS]

  let's put them out there all right so so [TS]

  that's it then [TS]

  that's it for this episode we'll be back [TS]

  next week live Eastern Time [TS]

  do you want to try to pull another one [TS]

  like you did last time and pick the [TS]

  topic topic [TS]

  ahead of time yeah but first let me go [TS]

  tell them one that when we're going to [TS]

  be back next Friday 2 p.m. Eastern you [TS]

  join us live here at 5x5 TV lunch live [TS]

  can be in the chat room you can listen [TS]

  live we want to say thanks to [TS]

  mailchimp.com go to mailchimp.com slash [TS]

  integration fund and get part of your [TS]

  million dollars for your app now what [TS]

  are the potentials what are the choices [TS]

  I don't have all the top grades all I am [TS]

  adding oh my goodness not prepared to [TS]

  look at the topic page you're an [TS]

  operator I have it up no I'm too focused [TS]

  on the conversation there you go all [TS]

  right [TS]

  is that you that's you there it is but [TS]

  go in there now I added a whole bunch at [TS]

  the bottom there oh I got the bottom [TS]

  look at this well we've got it we've got [TS]

  to do don't read them all off each I'm [TS]

  not gonna read any of them off just [TS]

  looking I wouldn't rely wouldn't do that [TS]

  - look at this you even have like [TS]

  archived two previous shows by that one [TS]

  you have on the top I'm never gonna pick [TS]

  that one [TS]

  you're never I'm gonna bung it a force [TS]

  pick that one eventually because I knew [TS]

  you would never pick it but I want to [TS]

  talk about it I saw I saw Jurassic Park [TS]

  I don't need to talk about uh-huh no [TS]

  we're gonna talk about that one we are [TS]

  going to I will eventually force that [TS]

  one now that I know you're never gonna [TS]

  pick of it I think people want to hear [TS]

  about it because usually someone hear [TS]

  about it people want to hear about you [TS]

  can see that one unknown as a park and [TS]

  that's it we don't have time that's wait [TS]

  yeah and that we're gonna talk to Ally [TS]

  topic are you never gonna pick a number [TS]

  two - have you ever even read that thing [TS]

  I like them yeah yeah yeah right then [TS]

  yeah well you didn't read all like it's [TS]

  too long but it was pretty long a lot of [TS]

  words that's it that's a heavy tech [TS]

  topic and I do want to talk about that [TS]

  one that one oh we'll pick um I really [TS]

  like number three I really like number [TS]

  three yeah no you keep picking that one [TS]

  but I have and I like to enjoy Hedwig [TS]

  wishy-washy things to say that I like [TS]

  number four and I wound umber five is [TS]

  new no that's right I thought about was [TS]

  I had the bottom two and I was like you [TS]

  know what I'm gonna add that one too I [TS]

  think right now all second from the [TS]

  second from the either the bottom to our [TS]

  mind are my top picks yeah I think all [TS]

  those maybe I can combine them into one [TS]

  show but let's do that let's do that our [TS]

  unfocused ideas and I think I just have [TS]

  a little bit like one [TS]

  little points to say about each of them [TS]

  and maybe we'll save the third from [TS]

  bottom for last can we say what they are [TS]

  no well we can just say that next week [TS]

  if Dan wants to pick these we're going [TS]

  to say we're going to walk them along [TS]

  with insert well-known company here and [TS]

  we'll do three company [TS]

  what's wrong with insert company name [TS]

  and the two of them are none of them are [TS]

  Apple yeah we already we do up all the [TS]

  time but they are there I'm sure you [TS]

  sure people will guess the two big ones [TS]

  yeah we're the third one in there that [TS]

  that will make nobody people will cry if [TS]

  they because no but nobody has that have [TS]

  you ever heard anyone have that [TS]

  discussion no never ever and and I and I [TS]

  was thinking about like you know what [TS]

  I'm planning to say well but you never [TS]

  hear anyone talking ever and I'm ready [TS]

  to defend it I will stand up and defend [TS]

  the 30 times you can't you can't defend [TS]

  it because I'll defend it it's not like [TS]

  I'm going to say for any of these [TS]

  companies this company is the devil you [TS]

  know yeah but I always gonna be this [TS]

  company is great but just look with [TS]

  Apple here it you know Apple is great [TS]

  but made a third company has brute just [TS]

  all they want to do is make people happy [TS]

  all right just don't give it away well [TS]

  do I'm not giving it away I'll put them [TS]

  in the I'll set them up for next week [TS]

  company can do no wrong but don't email [TS]

  us of what you think it is [TS]

  please we get so many emails you've [TS]

  practically given it away already [TS]

  I have not super smart people in the [TS]

  chat we've already figured it they [TS]

  haven't looked in the chat room to see [TS]

  if they actually have but I'm assuming [TS]

  they if anyone is still listening they [TS]

  figured they are throwing out names and [TS]

  I won't even give them I have not even [TS]

  looking at the names so I don't know if [TS]

  it's actually been I won't [TS]

  I won't spoil it out but I'll tell you [TS]

  later do look at it and then people are [TS]

  all way up all right so listen that's it [TS]

  for this show thanks to to MailChimp [TS]

  thanks to you guys for tuning in you we [TS]

  need you to rate this show that's what [TS]

  we also need we it's really helpful when [TS]

  you do that they didn't review because [TS]

  the reviews are my comments man no [TS]

  comments on the site for for [TS]

  well-founded reason this thing doesn't [TS]

  have time to deal with that but but but [TS]

  iTunes deal with your spammy comments [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  and what are your ads and to iTunes and [TS]

  make some poor guy click it away but we [TS]

  appreciate you listening and John is [TS]

  always another great show always [TS]

  enjoying too [TS]

  of great time always enjoyed doing this [TS]

  view so thank you John Syracuse it can [TS]

  be found on Twitter at Syracuse ah there [TS]

  is no Z in Syracuse oh that's how you [TS]

  remember how to spell it [TS]

  I'm Dan Benjamin also Dan Benjamin on [TS]

  Twitter and we hope you enjoyed it and [TS]

  we'll see you all next week [TS]

  you [TS]