Hypercritical

10: Like Giving a Machine Gun to a Baby

 

  you're listening to hypercritical a [TS]

  weekly talkshow ruminating on exactly [TS]

  what is wrong in the world of Apple and [TS]

  related technologies and businesses [TS]

  nothing is so perfect that my co-host [TS]

  John siracusa cannot complain about it [TS]

  sometimes I complain too I'm Dan [TS]

  Benjamin and that we would like to thank [TS]

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  about those as the show goes on we'd [TS]

  also like to say thanks to photo case [TS]

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  five by five is a coupon code and you [TS]

  will save 15% on your purchase so thanks [TS]

  to photo case calm how are you John I'm [TS]

  pretty good it's good to be back here in [TS]

  the virtual studio with you it's been a [TS]

  long week my finger is much better [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  did you talk about that on other shows [TS]

  no just your just this show all right [TS]

  well I'm like we need to go into it in [TS]

  too much detail but you could post some [TS]

  disgusting pictures for the fans of the [TS]

  trust me I'm too embarrassed to do that [TS]

  and we don't we'll just yeah we'll move [TS]

  on alright oh we get a lot of feedback [TS]

  about about this segment of the show the [TS]

  follow-up segment we get more feedback [TS]

  about this than most of the topics it [TS]

  just seems that way I think was it's [TS]

  like it's like 50/50 split some people [TS]

  like it for the same reasons that I like [TS]

  it and some people don't like it for the [TS]

  same reasons that I think you don't like [TS]

  oh I do listen that's the thing I do [TS]

  like it [TS]

  I love the fuck I could do a hole I [TS]

  could do every show could be a follow up [TS]

  on the previous show I think we'd be do [TS]

  fine that would be the talk show then [TS]

  right it's just everything is talking [TS]

  about what you talked about before and [TS]

  you go around in circles and other [TS]

  people just want us to get to the main [TS]

  meat of the show right like immediately [TS]

  but it's not it's not how I operate you [TS]

  got a circle back I like it no I for the [TS]

  record I have no problem with the follow [TS]

  up John [TS]

  I like the fall so let's get to it do it [TS]

  so last week we did know iLife is an [TS]

  island a medium amount of feedback about [TS]

  this I got a lot of feedback about this [TS]

  from people who I know personally like [TS]

  my relatives and wife and everything [TS]

  because [TS]

  they are annoyed by it in the same way [TS]

  that I am right now [TS]

  and one bit of information that I didn't [TS]

  talk about was something that has [TS]

  bothered me for so long that I guess I [TS]

  forgotten about it even if you ignore [TS]

  the server or the cloud or whatever else [TS]

  if you just have a single Mac even just [TS]

  like Apple seems to want you to have but [TS]

  you have multiple accounts on it even [TS]

  that very small sharing scenario Apple's [TS]

  apps kind of fall down because you're [TS]

  supposed to you know switch from one [TS]

  user to the other and keep your own [TS]

  accounts and keep your stuff separate [TS]

  which is great and everything but then [TS]

  you have a single Mac and if one [TS]

  person's log into their account they [TS]

  can't connect the camera to pull the [TS]

  pictures off of it because our iPhoto [TS]

  libraries and the other person's account [TS]

  the thing that drove me nuts about fast [TS]

  user switching way back when they first [TS]

  introduced it in 2003 was that if you [TS]

  have a husband and wife and who share a [TS]

  Mac what's in their house you both need [TS]

  to type your password to switch accounts [TS]

  you can't just like say okay if I'm not [TS]

  logged into my account I give permission [TS]

  to automatically switch to this other [TS]

  person's account and vice versa and so [TS]

  here we are you know it makes fast user [TS]

  switching it puts more of a barrier on [TS]

  it I'm always trying to convince people [TS]

  like my parents and stuff to set up [TS]

  separate accounts and I said well why [TS]

  don't we just both use the same account [TS]

  it's easier because they don't want to [TS]

  enter that password they don't wanna [TS]

  select from that menu it just puts a [TS]

  little you know impediment there but [TS]

  once I finally get them over that hurdle [TS]

  now what I've done is said okay now you [TS]

  just have little islands of media [TS]

  because the iLife apps won't share your [TS]

  stuff I've done stuff with the user [TS]

  shared folder where you can put a [TS]

  directory in Mac OS 10 slash users slash [TS]

  shared where the permissions are set up [TS]

  by default to be friendly to users who [TS]

  share the same group and you can put [TS]

  some stuff there like my music folders [TS]

  and user shared but in general the iLife [TS]

  apps and everything Apple does it [TS]

  doesn't have any way to share even on a [TS]

  single machine so it's even deeper than [TS]

  oh I have multiple Macs and I can't [TS]

  share or there's no cloud-based thing [TS]

  and stuff like that even at the very [TS]

  simple level of a single machine with [TS]

  two accounts sharing falls down [TS]

  I actually filed a bug on that fast user [TS]

  switching thing back in 2003 still open [TS]

  I guess they're just never going to get [TS]

  yeah I I don't up on waiting on that one [TS]

  that's a radar three three nine zero [TS]

  five one five any Apple you [TS]

  or listening go put it out of its misery [TS]

  clothes as works as designed or [TS]

  something I think it was an enhancement [TS]

  request yeah that might be my oldest [TS]

  open blog because all my bugs from [TS]

  before that I think they finally closed [TS]

  out alright um there's one thing that [TS]

  just I saw it fly by in the chat room I [TS]

  show up saw it fly by and Twitter and I [TS]

  think I actually retweeted it but I [TS]

  thought it was worth throwing in here as [TS]

  a follow up on the iPad stuff from two [TS]

  shows ago someone posted something on [TS]

  the site called tech inch that I'd never [TS]

  heard of before [TS]

  Matthew gu a wife and I'm not going to [TS]

  try to pronounce and his article was the [TS]

  iPad is the microwave oven of computing [TS]

  hmm it's a short one page or a little [TS]

  thing and it's pretty self-explanatory [TS]

  kind of goes into how that you know the [TS]

  microwave is this new thing that seemed [TS]

  frivolous and it was initially expensive [TS]

  and people didn't understand why you [TS]

  needed one because you got a 50 [TS]

  different ways in the kitchen already [TS]

  the heat up food and a lot of the early [TS]

  press about microwaves was how you could [TS]

  use it to like make an entire meal or [TS]

  make a souffle or bake a cake or do all [TS]

  these things where they say look it's a [TS]

  complete replacement for for another [TS]

  oven and we all know how this turned out [TS]

  microwaves are not complete replacement [TS]

  for other elements but now we all have [TS]

  them for some reason even though before [TS]

  they were introduced they seem frivolous [TS]

  my takeaway from this article is that [TS]

  this is certainly what Apple and other [TS]

  techies hope the iPad will be and you [TS]

  can see a lot of similarities I don't [TS]

  think you can make the case convincingly [TS]

  now that this has happened [TS]

  oh wait wait five years and see it [TS]

  pretty much everybody you know has some [TS]

  sort of tablet computer just like pretty [TS]

  much everybody you know has a PC now [TS]

  yeah like a long time for that to happen [TS]

  for you to just take a random person off [TS]

  the street and say you've got a computer [TS]

  right now pretty much everybody does the [TS]

  same thing with cell phones went faster [TS]

  everyone had a cell phone seemingly [TS]

  overnight so we'll see how the tablet [TS]

  things do but I really like the analogy [TS]

  and so did a lot of other people which [TS]

  is why it's being retweeted all over the [TS]

  web right now I was surprised to see a [TS]

  problem in the chatroom as soon as I [TS]

  peeked in the window right after [TS]

  retweeting and adding and shown mm-hmm [TS]

  the speed of internet immediacy it's all [TS]

  about immediacy yeah I've got a little [TS]

  mini one from like three shows ago when [TS]

  I was complaining about it was the lion [TS]

  episode I was complaining about in Snow [TS]

  Leopard how they curved the bottom [TS]

  corners of the [TS]

  the windows and a goodtime player yeah [TS]

  chopped off those little pixels yes you [TS]

  can get rid of that why can't I see [TS]

  those pixels yeah so somebody I forget [TS]

  who it was it Pinal but i had in the [TS]

  notes for a while someone pointed out [TS]

  that you can get rid of those with one [TS]

  of those uh pilla stacks where you know [TS]

  you the defaults command from the [TS]

  command line and what they pointed out [TS]

  was not just the hack but this is an [TS]

  application which actually have [TS]

  installed them had installed forever [TS]

  it's a preference pane called seek [TS]

  secrets too many secrets yeah and it's [TS]

  got it's not cause you own any secrets [TS]

  is it it's just called secret is secret [TS]

  and it's got a server side component [TS]

  that tracks all these little tips all [TS]

  these little commands you can type to [TS]

  add a little key to some property list [TS]

  for an application and since it's [TS]

  server-side it's updated frequently so [TS]

  you've got this little preference pane [TS]

  and you just go to it and you find the [TS]

  application you want to know some tweaks [TS]

  about it says here's all the list of [TS]

  funny tweaks that people have figured [TS]

  out and because it's server-side it's [TS]

  constantly updating or whatever and I [TS]

  didn't even think to look there but if [TS]

  you look there for QuickTime Player or [TS]

  QuickTime Player Capital X I guess is [TS]

  what they're calling these no I / [TS]

  QuickTime Player you know it's got a [TS]

  little hack for taking rid of the square [TS]

  the square corners now I tried it and it [TS]

  does cause a whole bunch of cosmetic [TS]

  issues at least for me or occasionally [TS]

  the window drawers funny and you get [TS]

  these little ugly things on it and it [TS]

  doesn't get rid of my even bigger [TS]

  complaint about that player which is the [TS]

  controller that floats over the movie [TS]

  but it's something and it shows that [TS]

  someone an apple some engineered Apple [TS]

  was similarly anal-retentive and said [TS]

  what you mean you want me to chop off [TS]

  those two pixels like some artist or [TS]

  designer said yeah no we want the bottom [TS]

  corners around it and he was also [TS]

  offended but you know by the principle [TS]

  of the matter and everything's up and so [TS]

  there it is yeah oh the last one I have [TS]

  I don't know this is this I was thinking [TS]

  this could be a whole show but I really [TS]

  doubt it it's about the iPhone 5 now I [TS]

  should actually put this tweet in the [TS]

  show notes but back in July of 2010 when [TS]

  the antennas stuff was going on it's a [TS]

  shame we didn't have the show then [TS]

  because I would have had a lot to say [TS]

  about the antenna thing I did write [TS]

  something about it but I felt like I [TS]

  could have expounded well I wanted to do [TS]

  the show for the record I wanted to do [TS]

  it then yes yes yes yes I just I [TS]

  couldn't let that go all right couldn't [TS]

  get it together but uh one of my things [TS]

  that I was thinking of as this antenna [TS]

  thing was going through is [TS]

  I phrased it in the form of a question [TS]

  is will Apple ever release a phone with [TS]

  an unshielded antenna like where you can [TS]

  touch the antenna again like that was in [TS]

  when all the dust had settled that was [TS]

  the question in my mind and it was a [TS]

  leading question because my answer was [TS]

  no I don't think they'll ever release [TS]

  another phone where you can touch the [TS]

  antenna like the next design the next [TS]

  redesign of the phone yeah do not be an [TS]

  antenna that you can touch on it and I [TS]

  thought that for a lot of reasons one I [TS]

  thought that the ability to touch the [TS]

  antenna does make it more susceptible to [TS]

  interference than then you know antennas [TS]

  that you can't touch simply because you [TS]

  can get your body parts closer to it and [TS]

  isn't you can't any closer than touching [TS]

  right so if it was inside some plastic [TS]

  or maybe a couple of millimeters away [TS]

  the distance that kind of distance [TS]

  counts especially those like you know a [TS]

  case between you and the thing or if you [TS]

  don't know where the antenna is when you [TS]

  can see the antenna and when you can [TS]

  touch it in specific places it's you're [TS]

  just going to have more problems now [TS]

  that doesn't mean that the antenna is [TS]

  worse it could be the antenna is better [TS]

  than one that it's inside a case and [TS]

  touching it really brings it down to the [TS]

  same level as an internal antenna or [TS]

  maybe doesn't make it as bad we don't [TS]

  that's never been settled as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned the hole is the antenna better [TS]

  and then touching it makes it as bad as [TS]

  the competition better and then touching [TS]

  it doesn't make it as bad as the [TS]

  competition I don't know but the bottom [TS]

  line is touching is worse than not [TS]

  touching and we just don't know what the [TS]

  net effective it is yeah but the real [TS]

  reason I think they're going to do it is [TS]

  because this whole hubbub over the [TS]

  touchable antenna it's just you know a [TS]

  PR annoyance for Apple I wouldn't know [TS]

  if you've called a P I guess maybe [TS]

  that's call it PR disaster because when [TS]

  they have to call a press conference to [TS]

  settle an issue like that that's raised [TS]

  to the level of disaster I think and so [TS]

  if only for the reasons they don't want [TS]

  to have to deal with that again for the [TS]

  iPhone 5 let's just take the issue off [TS]

  the table you know hey guys let's find a [TS]

  way to put the antenna someplace where [TS]

  you can't touch it and then we just [TS]

  don't have to talk about this anymore [TS]

  and maybe one or two guys will ask oil [TS]

  so you put it inside does that mean when [TS]

  we could touch it you're now admitting [TS]

  it was bad that we could touch it they [TS]

  don't have to answer that they can just [TS]

  say we think the iPhone 5 is great and [TS]

  blah blah blah blah blah I don't think [TS]

  that would be an admission of guilt or [TS]

  even admitting the iPhone 4 like it [TS]

  could be that they put the antenna [TS]

  inside and the iPhone caught his worst [TS]

  reception in the iPhone 4 because they [TS]

  put the end [TS]

  inside but just to get the issue off the [TS]

  table I feel like they're going to tuck [TS]

  that thing in there somehow and remember [TS]

  how it came up because there was a [TS]

  couple of rumors of aluminum backside [TS]

  for the for the iPhone 5 with a read [TS]

  redesigned antenna and supposedly the [TS]

  antenna was going to be behind the [TS]

  plastic Apple logo on the back or I [TS]

  don't know I don't know what the iPhone [TS]

  5 is gonna look like I have no idea this [TS]

  is just vague rumors at this point but [TS]

  I'm anxious to see where that antenna is [TS]

  do you want to like make a bet where [TS]

  it's gonna be or if we're gonna see it [TS]

  back lumina back I wouldn't bet on the [TS]

  aluminum back but I would go 51 percent [TS]

  to 49 that it's not going to be you're [TS]

  not gonna be able to touch it with your [TS]

  hand it'll be behind something I've been [TS]

  leaning that direction as soon as I saw [TS]

  that PR thing just just because just to [TS]

  get it out of the way that's a bit [TS]

  aluminum back I really like because I [TS]

  like the iPhone one how solid it felt [TS]

  the iPhone 4 is nice too with the glass [TS]

  back but I think that's another instance [TS]

  where they learn the lesson of even if [TS]

  the iPhone 4 is back doesn't crack any [TS]

  more than the 3G or 3GS did the [TS]

  perception and the PR thing is like well [TS]

  maybe it's not worth it because people [TS]

  hear glass and you're shattering and it [TS]

  breaks in a more spectacular way than [TS]

  the hairline convex you've got the 3G [TS]

  j'son's I think they'll just be like [TS]

  alright been there done that let's move [TS]

  on to the next thing I have an iPhone [TS]

  one the first generation I have the 3G I [TS]

  don't have the 3GS and I have a four of [TS]

  the three of the four phones that I have [TS]

  my favorite as far as how it feels in [TS]

  your hand when you're carrying it and [TS]

  walking around and talking on it is [TS]

  still the first generation phone I like [TS]

  that as far as at how it feels when [TS]

  you're using it not as a phone but as a [TS]

  smart device as a small computer in your [TS]

  pocket [TS]

  I like the field of four better I like [TS]

  the the grip enos of it it really does I [TS]

  think Steve Jobs was saying on stage [TS]

  when they announced it that it feels [TS]

  like it just feels so dense and it feels [TS]

  like a very very high-end camera I'd [TS]

  like that but I'd love to see the back [TS]

  code back to an aluminium style the way [TS]

  the first generation one had it just [TS]

  felt really like I never was worried [TS]

  about dropping it and there are always [TS]

  people who say oh I never dropped any of [TS]

  the phones or none of them are slippery [TS]

  or you know [TS]

  whatever but for me I think the first [TS]

  gen iPhone had had the right feeling you [TS]

  don't feel that the the squared off [TS]

  edges [TS]

  speaking of like apples hardware blind [TS]

  spots from that episode about the sharp [TS]

  edges and the power books you don't feel [TS]

  these squared off edges in the iPhone 4 [TS]

  make it less comfortable in your hand [TS]

  and for example the more curved 3g 3gs [TS]

  you know they it depends on on how I'm [TS]

  holding it if I'm holding it up to my [TS]

  ear to talk which I almost never do I [TS]

  was used to headset of some kind but if [TS]

  I'm doing it that way then you then yeah [TS]

  I prefer the curved shape to the square [TS]

  but if I'm holding in my hand and I'm [TS]

  using it as a smart device then I don't [TS]

  mind so much the edges but there you [TS]

  know I could go either way I'm not not [TS]

  picky about that they are rounded over [TS]

  they're not like sharp sharp reenact [TS]

  books but it does feel more like a [TS]

  rectangular solid it looks a little bit [TS]

  more like an object art than something [TS]

  that's meant to be held where is the [TS]

  iPhone one and and the 3G one had the [TS]

  curves on them was sort of it kind of [TS]

  acknowledging that we want this to feel [TS]

  good in your hand or going to the [TS]

  extreme you'd think of something like [TS]

  the Palm Pre which they're whole but [TS]

  there's nothing habitus yes yeah [TS]

  polished stone in the river and it [TS]

  really that is a round shapely thing [TS]

  like that they're hard words got other [TS]

  problems but that design philosophy is [TS]

  not coming from Apple the iPhone 4 was a [TS]

  step away from that to say no it's more [TS]

  like like the you know it's more like an [TS]

  industrial thing it's more of a was like [TS]

  AI dieter Rams kind of design that's all [TS]

  I've got for follow up today let's not [TS]

  see that's not so bad [TS]

  yeah people survived it's really really [TS]

  not that bad so today's topic [TS]

  yes chosen by mr. Benjamin from the list [TS]

  the secret list that no one can see [TS]

  right people have asked it for me to for [TS]

  me to disregard what you say and publish [TS]

  the list and solicit feedback yes and [TS]

  you threw me under the bus when you [TS]

  reply to that guy's I did I own the list [TS]

  I have disdain for you do are you going [TS]

  to deny that I mean see that's that's [TS]

  mean you know what you need to add to [TS]

  the list John is you need to add your [TS]

  feelings about comments we could do a [TS]

  whole show on [TS]

  on the list is that yes it's the first [TS]

  one you keep skipping over I didn't read [TS]

  like that to me but all right well we'll [TS]

  that'll be an x-rays that so it's more [TS]

  clear what that showed would be not [TS]

  maybe you'll pick it next time yeah I [TS]

  will pick it that is a good topic but [TS]

  today's is Apple's online learning [TS]

  disability my will meet ping and other [TS]

  disasters - my one-liner thing oh but [TS]

  when I think about it there's not really [TS]

  many other disasters it's just mobile me [TS]

  and payment we're going to talk about [TS]

  but it sounds better when you say other [TS]

  disasters maybe people can add their own [TS]

  disasters so before we start in this I [TS]

  think we'll just art with the premise [TS]

  that the premise is that everyone pretty [TS]

  much agrees that Apple's online services [TS]

  are not the best that's I don't think we [TS]

  have to debate that it's generally a [TS]

  consensus of opinion like if you ask [TS]

  people you know who does online really [TS]

  well this Apple do online really well [TS]

  they say no they're not great at their [TS]

  good other things but they're not good [TS]

  at that and if you just go buy if you [TS]

  ignore pain you just go by a number of [TS]

  people people use lots of things online [TS]

  people use Facebook you know Gmail lots [TS]

  of services that have millions and [TS]

  millions of people not as many people [TS]

  use Apple's online services or it just [TS]

  doesn't have the numbers doesn't have [TS]

  the users it never did many competitors [TS]

  came from zero and right past it [TS]

  for reasons we'll get into later but so [TS]

  if you go by opinion or numbers this is [TS]

  not apples strength and this topic is [TS]

  basically why what's the problem why is [TS]

  this not Apple strength how are they so [TS]

  good at everything so good at seemingly [TS]

  everything they do and that every time [TS]

  they touch online they screw it up [TS]

  somehow so what's the problem here and I [TS]

  think the way to combat that is to go in [TS]

  the other direction and say what makes a [TS]

  good online service and then see how [TS]

  Apple does in all these categories [TS]

  yeah let's do that the first category I [TS]

  think and these kind of order ordered in [TS]

  terms of importance depending on my mood [TS]

  they can go back and forth but I think [TS]

  the number one has to be reliability [TS]

  this is kind of true of everything where [TS]

  people ask you you know what do you look [TS]

  for in a house what do you look for in a [TS]

  car and the first answer isn't well the [TS]

  house should keep the rain out and the [TS]

  car shouldn't explode when I get into it [TS]

  but with online services I think the [TS]

  reliability and drain [TS]

  it's been so bad for all online services [TS]

  that you have to put reliability as [TS]

  number one because people rightly or [TS]

  wrongly have an apprehension about [TS]

  online stuff where their stuff is [TS]

  somewhere where they can't touch it and [TS]

  their only access to it is through this [TS]

  wire that's you know connected to their [TS]

  house that they're relying on this [TS]

  utility company they pay a monthly bill [TS]

  to to allow it to work it's not the same [TS]

  in their mind as something that's [TS]

  physically in their house that only [TS]

  needs electricity to run and we're [TS]

  comfortable that way so reliability is [TS]

  the first big stumbling block for any of [TS]

  these online services and and it the [TS]

  worst thing about it is because when [TS]

  there is some sort of problem it doesn't [TS]

  just affect you like my hard drive goes [TS]

  bad and I can't get my stuff for a while [TS]

  it's very upsetting to me but my [TS]

  neighbor doesn't have a problem and no [TS]

  one else has a problem the local [TS]

  problems are distributed randomly across [TS]

  time whereas if there's some sort of [TS]

  online problem for it with for example [TS]

  you know you can't get your email and [TS]

  you yahoo mail [TS]

  well everybody who uses yahoo mail can't [TS]

  get their mail so a million people are [TS]

  pissed off and inconvenience at the same [TS]

  time and it's a bad bad scene so that [TS]

  kind of magnifies the effect of [TS]

  reliability for online services now [TS]

  apples I'm going to pick this whole [TS]

  section I'm gonna pick on a dot Mac [TS]

  MobileMe it's gone very under various [TS]

  names sort of like the Bell Atlantic [TS]

  Verizon singular AT&T keep changing the [TS]

  name it's all the same thing that it's [TS]

  all the same yeah people hate your name [TS]

  change the name but don't like the [TS]

  service any better that's the cynical [TS]

  analysis of that move so mobile me then [TS]

  known as dot Mac and previously I tools [TS]

  I'll pick email in particular I put a [TS]

  whole bunch of links in the show notes [TS]

  of the reliability of dot Mac and mobile [TS]

  me email it's down time I don't know if [TS]

  there's anyone ever graphed this but how [TS]

  many times you know could you not get [TS]

  your mail from Apple's service they had [TS]

  huge amounts of downtime the links I put [TS]

  in one of them was was a story saying [TS]

  that it was the 15th recorded outage it [TS]

  for the month of June can you imagine if [TS]

  Gmail went down 15 times in a single [TS]

  month another link had dot Mac mail [TS]

  going offline for six [TS]

  hours can you imagine not being able to [TS]

  get your me mail email for six hours I [TS]

  mean if you're using it for personal [TS]

  maybe but if you're using this thing for [TS]

  like work and business which a lot of [TS]

  people are and word that's crushing and [TS]

  even if it's just your personal email [TS]

  like people just it's like a betrayal of [TS]

  the Internet when you can't get or send [TS]

  email so you're some dude and you have [TS]

  one email address and you love max you [TS]

  made Joe at matcom and then for six [TS]

  hours you can't send or receive email [TS]

  it's like wait a second emails supposed [TS]

  to be like running water at the tap it's [TS]

  like when you turn on the tap and [TS]

  nothing comes out it's you know did you [TS]

  know your civilization at that point did [TS]

  you ever do you CP I did not I didn't I [TS]

  wasn't online in those days you see I [TS]

  had a uucp gateway machine in my house [TS]

  because I had an ISDN line and it was [TS]

  tricky to get uucp to work over tcp/ip [TS]

  in those days but you could do it and [TS]

  before that I just had one that was over [TS]

  just a dial-up modem so you kind of had [TS]

  this feeling back then that I could send [TS]

  emails and then I would have to wait [TS]

  until you know at least an hour when it [TS]

  was time for my gateway to call in and [TS]

  the machine would pick up the phone and [TS]

  dial out and talk uucp to the to the [TS]

  other gateway servers send the send the [TS]

  the email out get whatever email was [TS]

  waiting and bring it back in and I would [TS]

  pop check the mail off my own server and [TS]

  the weird thing was I knew that that [TS]

  email that I just sent out it would have [TS]

  to sit there for up to an hour and then [TS]

  it would be another hour before I would [TS]

  know if somebody had we even written me [TS]

  back but that was exposing the store and [TS]

  forward nature of email yeah you you [TS]

  know that there was so abstraction [TS]

  behind it but the idea of waiting six [TS]

  hours today it seems unbelievable in [TS]

  time time by the time regular people got [TS]

  email addresses it was supposed to be [TS]

  like a utility like your television or [TS]

  water or electricity and you know it was [TS]

  it was the type of thing where when it [TS]

  doesn't work it seems like it's not fair [TS]

  that this is always supposed to work [TS]

  right this is just an affront to the [TS]

  the natural order of thing and so for [TS]

  dot Mac to be going down all that time [TS]

  and they had worse things to it another [TS]

  one of the worst things they had was [TS]

  that they used to do spam filtering [TS]

  where they were trying to do you know [TS]

  the best they could to get to deal with [TS]

  spam but they would do it in a typical [TS]

  Apple fashion all server-side with no [TS]

  visibility to the user so if they got it [TS]

  wrong and they filtered out one of your [TS]

  spammy one of your legitimate emails as [TS]

  spam you just never saw it and it would [TS]

  make you go crazy someone say hey [TS]

  emailed you and you'd say I did I didn't [TS]

  get it and again another another [TS]

  betrayal of the Internet it's suppose [TS]

  you're supposed to email me I'm supposed [TS]

  to get it and when when you don't see [TS]

  that email is just maddening and you [TS]

  know experienced users could figure out [TS]

  what's going on we know that your users [TS]

  figured out there doing server-side spam [TS]

  filtering and this must have got caught [TS]

  in the spam filter and do I have any [TS]

  knobs to turn on the spam filtering is [TS]

  it someplace I can look for that mail no [TS]

  it's just gone I remember people [TS]

  complained to Apple about it and apples [TS]

  you know responses from deep within the [TS]

  bowels of the company were more or less [TS]

  well we have to filter spam because you [TS]

  have no idea how much spam we get and if [TS]

  we didn't filter it it would just be [TS]

  untenable and yeah we're going to get it [TS]

  wrong sometimes but oh well and that's [TS]

  just that's not the attitude to have you [TS]

  know Apple Way is that we don't want to [TS]

  show you those knobs we don't want to [TS]

  show you your spam boom we don't want [TS]

  users to you will deal with that that's [TS]

  all well and good but if it's something [TS]

  where you can't get it 100% right you're [TS]

  breaking the contract of email and then [TS]

  the other thing unreliability is dot Mac [TS]

  homepage I don't know if you remember [TS]

  that but it was one of their first sort [TS]

  of webpage building things you would [TS]

  upload your media and then use like a [TS]

  web interface to build pages we have [TS]

  very frustrating experience they're like [TS]

  little templates and you could put your [TS]

  pictures in and write captions it was [TS]

  not a very good web app but a lot of [TS]

  people including a lot of people my [TS]

  family built websites on that just [TS]

  because as bad as it was it was easier [TS]

  than anything that had tried before this [TS]

  was before you know the advent of [TS]

  blogging software was it was ubiquitous [TS]

  and you could really you know and I had [TS]

  integration with the Apple stuff it had [TS]

  an easy way to get your stuff from your [TS]

  iPhoto library onto the thing so they [TS]

  built whole sides of that you know every [TS]

  month they would be here's the pictures [TS]

  of the kids here's what they did here's [TS]

  a little story about them and they would [TS]

  fiddle with the web pages and do all [TS]

  their stuff or upload a little video [TS]

  the new baby or whatever and then Apple [TS]

  decided to phase it out and it was [TS]

  December of last year and not only did [TS]

  they phase it out but they made it so [TS]

  that if you had web pages up there what [TS]

  was this is a quote from the thing [TS]

  they're they're a little document on it [TS]

  web pages created using dot match on Mac [TS]

  homepage will still exist on the web but [TS]

  only the HTML text and other content and [TS]

  it says photos and movies will no longer [TS]

  be viewable so that's great so you tell [TS]

  me the HTML will be there the HTML pages [TS]

  but if you go to them they'll just be [TS]

  whole with broken images well [TS]

  considering you're just mostly putting [TS]

  up photos and movies that's sort of a [TS]

  non-starter and this this is a [TS]

  reliability thing because you invested [TS]

  this time and energy into putting your [TS]

  data up there you wrote little captions [TS]

  that were cute you wrote little stories [TS]

  you you know arranged the pictures you [TS]

  picked which ones you wanted you did [TS]

  everything you put all this time into it [TS]

  so everyone could see it and the sort of [TS]

  the unspoken contract of online is once [TS]

  I put something up there it stays there [TS]

  forever unless you know I take it down [TS]

  right and Apple said yeah now we're not [TS]

  going to host that anymore sorry and [TS]

  they didn't give you any good options to [TS]

  get it this stuff back they're like well [TS]

  you know they had these little in the [TS]

  article I linked in the show notes they [TS]

  said well here's how you can kind of [TS]

  extract the pictures and put them up in [TS]

  a different thing but the pictures were [TS]

  lower quality versions in most cases [TS]

  than the the ones that were and I [TS]

  thought it was they were compressed [TS]

  JPEGs that were shrunken right and so [TS]

  you have to recompress them or like they [TS]

  didn't maintain the link with their with [TS]

  their original source and iPhoto even if [TS]

  you still had it so you can't you know [TS]

  reput those up with a new dot mac [TS]

  gallery or MobileMe gallery that lets [TS]

  you put up the full quality images and [TS]

  if you if you pull down the small images [TS]

  which are really small because this was [TS]

  a long time ago [TS]

  homepage and like it would make your [TS]

  images very very tiny they look [TS]

  positively miniscule on a 27-inch iMac [TS]

  for example and then you have to [TS]

  recompress them and put them up [TS]

  someplace else into templates that [TS]

  expected bigger pictures it's just there [TS]

  was no good way to do it there wasn't [TS]

  even a good way my sister was begging [TS]

  for this she wanted some way to just [TS]

  print everything that was on there just [TS]

  print my entire homepage site print [TS]

  every single page of it on sheets [TS]

  favored in color glossy paper and I [TS]

  could put it in a little scrapbook and [TS]

  say this is what I did during the first [TS]

  four years of my children's life and I [TS]

  printed it out I have a paper copy and [TS]

  I'm comfortable with it fine you can get [TS]

  rid of it but they didn't have anything [TS]

  like that and so this is kind of a a [TS]

  another betrayal of reliability where [TS]

  they're doing something that is outside [TS]

  the realm of what people expect out of [TS]

  online brain services and all these [TS]

  little things all these these [TS]

  reliability concerns and isolation each [TS]

  one of them could be explained away and [TS]

  you can excuse it but they build they [TS]

  build up and it builds a reputation for [TS]

  basically if you couldn't do something [TS]

  online and you want to do it with a [TS]

  company that's trustworthy [TS]

  don't do it with Apple because you'll [TS]

  get screwed eventually and especially [TS]

  people who have been using the service [TS]

  for years and years we have that [TS]

  personal experience throughout but even [TS]

  if you don't even if you ask about this [TS]

  anyway I'm thinking of setting up an [TS]

  email account what should I use they [TS]

  don't say oh you should definitely sign [TS]

  up for a MobileMe account they use that [TS]

  for your email everybody says Gmail at [TS]

  this point yeah [TS]

  so let me well let me and let me throw [TS]

  this back at you for a minute but [TS]

  without the railing actually I have a [TS]

  question for you and that is why why is [TS]

  this so bad or is that later do you want [TS]

  to answer that yeah we did we did [TS]

  reliability before we do performance we [TS]

  can do a sponsor and we can go on to the [TS]

  other topics at the very end that's the [TS]

  last thing is that's a very less I'm [TS]

  just yeah I just I want to give drop a [TS]

  little hint let people know that that [TS]

  that there's going to be a little nugget [TS]

  at the end the end of this our rainbow [TS]

  there there will be I don't want to [TS]

  otherwise I mean I'll give you other [TS]

  categories that we just the reliability [TS]

  after the sponsor will do performance [TS]

  features and access and then we'll do a [TS]

  little sidebar and ping and then we'll [TS]

  do an explanation of what the problem is [TS]

  I think people are starting to think [TS]

  this is like the the lost of the podcast [TS]

  world and then too you'll continue to [TS]

  throw curve balls without providing any [TS]

  real tangible answers [TS]

  it's a story man you gotta listen I'm [TS]

  going to be getting into the middle to [TS]

  the end all right yeah I watched lost [TS]

  all all all the seasons so I can stick [TS]

  with this there you go should we do this [TS]

  or should we do the sponsor now and I [TS]

  think we should alright so listen this [TS]

  is a new sponsor I want everybody to [TS]

  check this I'm really excited about this [TS]

  one it's it's audible so here's here's [TS]

  how this works [TS]

  audible has over 85,000 panels in it [TS]

  basically every genre that exists out [TS]

  there and [TS]

  we've been talking about what we could [TS]

  do and here's what we're going to do [TS]

  they're going to give a free audiobook [TS]

  and a 14-day trial [TS]

  to everybody who goes to audible [TS]

  podcast.com slash hypercritical you go [TS]

  there and you can get your free [TS]

  audiobook and I'd love it I listen to a [TS]

  lot of podcasts and besides besides [TS]

  podcasts the only thing that I listen to [TS]

  anymore it's is is audiobooks I don't I [TS]

  don't even listen to music and list [TS]

  anything else this is it it's great you [TS]

  know what I like to listen this stuff [TS]

  believe it or not I'll actually look [TS]

  when I have to go to the grocery store [TS]

  when I'm on a drive that's the perfect [TS]

  time for me because I can kind of get in [TS]

  a zone and I that's what that's how I do [TS]

  it now John you were saying you listened [TS]

  to a lot of podcasts I'm gonna try and [TS]

  get you hooked on on audiobooks too you [TS]

  need to expand into this I'm just bad [TS]

  reading in general I don't make enough [TS]

  time I can barely listen to the amount [TS]

  of podcasts I get but the one thing I [TS]

  would definitely say to recommend [TS]

  podcasts and audiobooks over music is [TS]

  that I find listening to somebody talk [TS]

  is more relaxing less distracting listen [TS]

  listening to music everything commute so [TS]

  that's why I'm listening to podcast [TS]

  during my commute because just it's just [TS]

  you know better than music yeah I feel [TS]

  like I have to pick like make a playlist [TS]

  of songs if there's God knows you can't [TS]

  turn on the radio because it's just a [TS]

  wasteland so you know I have my podcasts [TS]

  all cued up and I don't have to worry [TS]

  about figuring out what song I want or [TS]

  from the mood to hear this song because [TS]

  song as you listen to hundreds of times [TS]

  but podcast I listen to more or less [TS]

  only once so I just listen I pull out [TS]

  the new five by five podcast that I [TS]

  haven't heard I put them in the order [TS]

  that I want to listen to them and then [TS]

  they just play and it's relaxing well I [TS]

  didn't know books could be the same way [TS]

  on a lot longer trip yeah I think they [TS]

  can I do I was gonna say I do the same [TS]

  thing but I mix into that all mix in [TS]

  audiobooks because I really especially [TS]

  and not all of them work this way but [TS]

  there are a lot of audiobooks on on [TS]

  audible that where that the authors of [TS]

  the book will actually read them it's [TS]

  not always the case but it's always cool [TS]

  especially if the author has a good [TS]

  reading speaking voice so it audible [TS]

  podcast.com slash hypercritical you get [TS]

  a free book and and here's a they said [TS]

  you know what why don't you guys [TS]

  recommend some books for listeners get [TS]

  get them started so you don't have to [TS]

  get these but these [TS]

  the these are the ones that I'm [TS]

  recommend though the one that I'm [TS]

  recommending is a book it's by it's by [TS]

  Jay Elliott it's called the Steve Jobs [TS]

  way I leadership for a new generation [TS]

  and this is a great book I've been [TS]

  recommending this for a little while now [TS]

  I'm really enjoying it's read by [TS]

  Christopher hurt written by Jay Eliot [TS]

  and if you're in a this is the use of [TS]

  former senior VP of Apple so you've got [TS]

  you've got to check this out this is a [TS]

  really great book I'm really enjoying it [TS]

  so that's my recommended you have one I [TS]

  know we're trying we're trying to get [TS]

  you on board with the with the [TS]

  audiobooks John do you have one directly [TS]

  I have a book recommendation I first [TS]

  time I talk about the the author reading [TS]

  the book the reason I like it when an [TS]

  author reads the book is because it's [TS]

  insight into the author's mind when [TS]

  you're reading the words on the page [TS]

  you're not sure what they say but the [TS]

  person meant when they wrote them when [TS]

  the author reads it they give emphasis [TS]

  to you know that sometimes again to and [TS]

  start acting and stuff but they give [TS]

  emphasis to words and phrases and [TS]

  sequences that reveals more insight into [TS]

  what the author was thinking when they [TS]

  wrote the book much more so than even if [TS]

  you do an interview with the author and [TS]

  you're like well tell me about your [TS]

  latest book and I you know ramble on in [TS]

  a vague way about it when they read it [TS]

  you can tell like which part of the book [TS]

  they're most excited about what what the [TS]

  money scenes are what the key phrases [TS]

  are and I really like that unfortunately [TS]

  sometimes authors have bad voices which [TS]

  why they have professionals yeah they [TS]

  got to get to some rationale in there so [TS]

  what's yours so my pick is something I [TS]

  did a podcast on last night but just [TS]

  hasn't been published yet but it was an [TS]

  episode of being comparable and it's the [TS]

  name of the wind it's part of apparently [TS]

  a three book series and it's a fantasy [TS]

  book and it's a fantasy book that people [TS]

  have been talking about for years and it [TS]

  finally bubbled up to my sphere of of [TS]

  influences I'm not really into fantasy [TS]

  books anymore these days although I was [TS]

  heavily when I was a kid but this was [TS]

  you know everyone's saying even if you [TS]

  hadn't read fantasy books in a while [TS]

  this one is great you got to read it you [TS]

  got to read it and so I did read it and [TS]

  if you've listened to the podcast I had [TS]

  many many unkind things to say about [TS]

  this book and a lot of it has to do with [TS]

  the reasons why I am NOT a big fantasy [TS]

  book reader but as we also talked about [TS]

  in the podcast I read the thing straight [TS]

  through like you know it's a page-turner [TS]

  as they say and I'm reading the [TS]

  humongous 900 page sequel now so [TS]

  obviously there's something good in this [TS]

  book that makes even someone like me [TS]

  sort of a lapsed fantasy book aficionado [TS]

  interested in it if you want to hear [TS]

  more details about the book you should [TS]

  listen to the podcast but I would just [TS]

  say that if you if you read fantasy [TS]

  books when you were a kid and you kind [TS]

  of like grew out of them or weren't into [TS]

  them or just got bored with them if you [TS]

  want to try a book to sort of get you [TS]

  back into the genre give this one a try [TS]

  because it's it's just off kilter enough [TS]

  that I think it will grab your interest [TS]

  and suck you in and if you're into [TS]

  fantasy books apparently people love [TS]

  fantasy books love this too so okay if [TS]

  this sounds like it's up your alley give [TS]

  it a try [TS]

  well we'll have links to Jon's pick and [TS]

  in mine in the in the show notes so you [TS]

  can get those and you can get your own [TS]

  free book it audio podcast com slash [TS]

  hypercritical and that's also gonna be [TS]

  the show alright is that okay [TS]

  audible podcast that skay looking at [TS]

  will get you reading we're gonna get you [TS]

  reading them pretty soon here it's hard [TS]

  I guess it's hard enough for me to read [TS]

  books audiobooks I'd have to cut into my [TS]

  podcast ooh don't say that [TS]

  maybe if you start recording less your [TS]

  podcast then I would have more time for [TS]

  audiobook you just need a longer commute [TS]

  yeah right that's not what I mean [TS]

  all right let's continue yes so we did [TS]

  reliability so number two about what [TS]

  makes a good online service I'd say is [TS]

  performance and I'm putting that before [TS]

  a bunch of other issues just after [TS]

  reliability reliability is basically [TS]

  does it work period and performance is [TS]

  how fast is it work and it sounds like a [TS]

  frill but it's it's not Wow now before I [TS]

  want I'm going to want you to break this [TS]

  down into two things John one is [TS]

  perceived performance and the other is [TS]

  actual performance you're like it's like [TS]

  you're reading my mind like this okay [TS]

  first the very second point also the [TS]

  first one to have is that sort of Gmail [TS]

  change the game for web apps web [TS]

  interfaces before Gmail in general but a [TS]

  few exceptions were kind of like every [TS]

  time you did anything to pay that too [TS]

  low it's not the Gmail invented Ajax or [TS]

  anything like that but Gmail was the [TS]

  first high profile pervasively Ajax [TS]

  throw out the old thing you know even [TS]

  though it did have the cruddy snow [TS]

  the cruddy plain HTML interface Gmail [TS]

  was clearly meant designed in a post [TS]

  Ajax world and that that just changed [TS]

  the perception of web applications [TS]

  entirely for the masses even though [TS]

  there had been plenty of small [TS]

  applications that did exactly the same [TS]

  thing before that Gmail was the first [TS]

  time that everybody saw oh oh this you [TS]

  mean this is a web app hey it's not so [TS]

  bad and the Gmail thing the other thing [TS]

  that did it was it didn't ape any sort [TS]

  of desktop applications UI it played to [TS]

  the strengths of the web so it didn't [TS]

  care [TS]

  you know how Apple Mail or Eudora or [TS]

  Outlook worked is that no this is how [TS]

  this is how email is going to work for [TS]

  us and Gmail was going to be its own [TS]

  thing we're going to rethink the [TS]

  interface from you know from the ground [TS]

  up from the lack of folders the [TS]

  introduction of labels and doing [TS]

  everything in terms of conversations and [TS]

  just the big linear list of stuff and it [TS]

  was very different from desktop [TS]

  application now the second point a veer [TS]

  is perception of speed versus actual [TS]

  speed that's the key because there was [TS]

  always going to be that round-trip to [TS]

  the server and that delay it was never [TS]

  going to be as fast as local in most [TS]

  cases but as long as you make it feel [TS]

  fast as long as the interface feels [TS]

  responsive as long as you're never [TS]

  waiting for a whole page to load and [TS]

  things seem to happen you know it [TS]

  interface isn't blocked when you've [TS]

  selected an action you can always select [TS]

  the different action and most common [TS]

  things are very fast Gmail did a really [TS]

  good job on that now contrast that to [TS]

  Apple's online web thing so now back in [TS]

  the day Apple had the you know you have [TS]

  to reload the whole webpage to do [TS]

  anything so the home page builder was [TS]

  kind of like that there wasn't much Ajax [TS]

  but you can't really blame them because [TS]

  I was pre a check the post Ajax Apple [TS]

  took that technology and used it to make [TS]

  their applications feel like the desktop [TS]

  version so if you look for example to [TS]

  mobile memes in mail interface today it [TS]

  looks kind of like the Apple Mail [TS]

  interface and it's all Ajax again it [TS]

  does everything asynchronously and you [TS]

  don't have to reload the page and stuff [TS]

  like that [TS]

  but it still feels fast slower than the [TS]

  equivalent desktop application they [TS]

  didn't you know define their own [TS]

  interface they didn't do what Gmail did [TS]

  and say we've got a new set of rules [TS]

  this is a new interface it's there's not [TS]

  that there's no basis of comparison for [TS]

  Gmail because there's no desktop [TS]

  application that ever worked like Gmail [TS]

  to work like Gmail and Apple Mail works [TS]

  like Apple me well mobile me works like [TS]

  Apple Mail and it's not as fast I mean [TS]

  if you take the little scroll thumb and [TS]

  scroll it in the MobileMe mail thing you [TS]

  get that little spinning cursor and the [TS]

  thing is empty and it says loading and [TS]

  you're waiting for something now Gmail [TS]

  makes you wait to but when you the [TS]

  expectations of a desktop application is [TS]

  when I grab the scroll thumb and yank it [TS]

  down I see stuff that's lower down I [TS]

  don't see a big spinning weight cursor [TS]

  in a blank screen and that perception is [TS]

  you know hammered in by years and years [TS]

  of desktop experience whereas on the [TS]

  Gmail side I have no expectation of [TS]

  what's going to happen when I click on a [TS]

  label right it changes you know it's not [TS]

  they don't look like folders if they had [TS]

  put a folder icon back to it made it [TS]

  like an active selection like a source [TS]

  list when I clicked on it and [TS]

  highlighted I'd be like why isn't the [TS]

  right pane up yeah yeah I mean they gave [TS]

  you basically a new a new language to [TS]

  speak when using their app yeah and you [TS]

  didn't have this unfavorable basis of [TS]

  comparison where their application was [TS]

  always going to be found wanting [TS]

  they just went off in a different [TS]

  direction but Apple has taken all this [TS]

  technology and built what seems to be a [TS]

  pretty credible you know nice clone of a [TS]

  desktop application but it's always [TS]

  going to be it's always going to pale in [TS]

  comparison to a real one and so it feels [TS]

  slower than it really is and I think it [TS]

  actually is slower than Gmail for [TS]

  reasons we'll get to in a later point [TS]

  and then I'm gonna make a little sidebar [TS]

  get off the mail thing to go to I disk [TS]

  oh my god talk about slow I just guess [TS]

  that the ultimate multi-year long is it [TS]

  but a decade yet it's been a long time [TS]

  where I disk is synonymous but slow is [TS]

  there if there's a slower way to access [TS]

  your files from a server somewhere I [TS]

  don't think I've ever experienced it it [TS]

  was it would block the entire [TS]

  application for a long time everything [TS]

  took forever lots of spinning weight [TS]

  cursors back in the day it was like well [TS]

  it's because they built I disk on top of [TS]

  synchronous file system API so in UNIX [TS]

  when you make a read system call and it [TS]

  goes down through the layers to the file [TS]

  system API yeah it's synchronous the [TS]

  application can't do anything else while [TS]

  it's waiting for that read but they seem [TS]

  to have overcome that a little bit but [TS]

  it still boggles my mind that using I [TS]

  disk in the finder is still slower than [TS]

  using web dev to hit that very same AI [TS]

  disk and pretty much any third-party [TS]

  application so if you have like in der [TS]

  archaea or transmitted or something like [TS]

  that and you open up your I disk and [TS]

  navigate it [TS]

  still faster to do that than it is to [TS]

  navigate your ideas going to find her I [TS]

  don't even know why anymore at this [TS]

  point they don't even care and I did [TS]

  that they did that a local discipling [TS]

  where you could have a whole disk image [TS]

  locally and it would try to sync them [TS]

  and syncing is not really Apple strength [TS]

  either so that was the worst it would [TS]

  put this giant disk image on your [TS]

  computer is just it was true they were [TS]

  trying to banned it and they kind of [TS]

  made it worse then the bottom line is [TS]

  the Dropbox dropkicks eye disk to the [TS]

  curb then it's like asana let's not [TS]

  let's not even talk about high discs [TS]

  anymore because and Dropbox shows it [TS]

  like some little company with a couple [TS]

  dudes in it made what I just should have [TS]

  been for a decade and it's like well [TS]

  here it is yeah Apple you're a [TS]

  multi-billion dollar cooperation with [TS]

  like more profit in five minutes that [TS]

  will have in the entire year and you [TS]

  couldn't do this and we just did and [TS]

  here it is I don't want to go into like [TS]

  whether or not a polite Dropbox or [TS]

  anything like that just the bottom line [TS]

  is I disk bed Dropbox good Apple big [TS]

  corporation lots of money Dropbox small [TS]

  so there's this problem here it's a [TS]

  major major failure do you think it [TS]

  really I know we're gonna jump in ahead [TS]

  jump but I mean do you think that that's [TS]

  the mentality big company versus small [TS]

  company mentality ork there that's not [TS]

  it okay you got there I'm not gonna I'm [TS]

  not gonna give them that excuse not yeah [TS]

  so so performance it's just killing [TS]

  Apple and and again if you can do [TS]

  anything online you [TS]

  if it feels slow it doesn't you know how [TS]

  does it affect your work well I do way [TS]

  back two seconds to get my file it just [TS]

  makes you not want to use it it makes it [TS]

  unpleasant [TS]

  and that's why I think performance that [TS]

  it's kind of like the same way iOS is so [TS]

  pleasant to use because it's so [TS]

  responsive and they focus so heavily on [TS]

  performance they just don't have that [TS]

  religion when it comes to server-side [TS]

  stuff and it's just as important there [TS]

  if not more important because you know [TS]

  you're farther away from the thing [TS]

  you're interacting with it's not you [TS]

  know it's not running on a CPU right in [TS]

  front of you it's on a server somewhere [TS]

  and is latency if send things over a [TS]

  wire and wait for a response and they're [TS]

  just not prioritizing it correctly so [TS]

  the next item is features it's a third [TS]

  item and list reliability performance [TS]

  then finally you get two features [TS]

  finally you get two like the stuff that [TS]

  Apple feels like it can compete on but [TS]

  the problem with that is that features [TS]

  in the online game are different than [TS]

  features in the desktop game so Gmail is [TS]

  a good example if you look at what Gmail [TS]

  do it's kind of like a an octopus that [TS]

  will put its tentacles into every part [TS]

  of your life Gmail will pull email from [TS]

  other services including computing [TS]

  services you can send email out through [TS]

  those other services so they look like [TS]

  they legitimately came from those other [TS]

  things there are extensions and those [TS]

  lab things where you can add lots of [TS]

  interesting features and mix-and-match [TS]

  and change themes and just customize it [TS]

  it does pop an IMAP it has server-side [TS]

  filters like features Gmail features [TS]

  have just been coming fast and heavy [TS]

  since the very beginning and they don't [TS]

  limit themselves to features that fit [TS]

  within our world you if somebody wants [TS]

  it if you know if someone somewhere [TS]

  thinks this is a useful feature they [TS]

  throw it in there so you can make Gmail [TS]

  your home for email on the web and I [TS]

  know have done that simply because it [TS]

  integrates with every other service you [TS]

  can just work in Gmail and make it look [TS]

  like you have 15 different email [TS]

  accounts but see them all in Gmail and [TS]

  send out through them all in Gmail and [TS]

  get them in any desktop application you [TS]

  want and have everything synchronized [TS]

  right those types of features apples so [TS]

  far behind in its mail client for doing [TS]

  that like Apple has tiny little feelers [TS]

  into maybe pulling in mail from other [TS]

  things and they do pop an IMAP but they [TS]

  don't want to you know they don't want [TS]

  they wouldn't do something like [TS]

  extensions because they said we define [TS]

  the interface for Apple Mail and for the [TS]

  webmail and we don't want you messing [TS]

  with it we don't want you putting an [TS]

  ugly picture of clouds in the background [TS]

  that changes based on the weather [TS]

  stuff like that server-side filters is a [TS]

  philosophical difference between the two [TS]

  things where Apple says well we have a [TS]

  rules in our you know Apple Mail [TS]

  application but when you're doing it [TS]

  from the server that's like when you're [TS]

  going through the web interface that's [TS]

  just like a temporary I just want to [TS]

  check my mail on the web but you'll go [TS]

  back and do it on your real mail client [TS]

  later [TS]

  whereas Gmail says not Gmail is the one [TS]

  true interface to mail and if they're [TS]

  going to be mail filtering rules they're [TS]

  going to be in Gmail and real lives on a [TS]

  server all those things all those [TS]

  features mean that Gmail is basically [TS]

  beating Apple in the market in the [TS]

  checkbox for and the chat box bar [TS]

  doesn't seem like it it's that important [TS]

  Apple doesn't participate in it in terms [TS]

  of its hardware products and its [TS]

  software but for online services if you [TS]

  want to win and get the people to use [TS]

  yours as you as your primary email [TS]

  address or your you know your primary [TS]

  disk storage thing like Dropbox Apple's [TS]

  going to lose every time [TS]

  the guys who are more flexible and [TS]

  that's why everyone uses Gmail and [TS]

  Dropbox instead of that Mac a male and [TS]

  an I disk and is one instance for apples [TS]

  we don't compete on features we compete [TS]

  on like feel and everything like that it [TS]

  doesn't make a difference in online you [TS]

  have to compete on features and [TS]

  especially in the sort of the Borg type [TS]

  ways where you absorb other stuff into [TS]

  it because I had so many different email [TS]

  accounts at different places including [TS]

  my Mac one and Gmail was the one that [TS]

  was promiscuous enough to be willing to [TS]

  absorb the other one so now my dot Mac [TS]

  email gets funneled through Gmail so [TS]

  does my you know all my other email [TS]

  accounts and that becomes my home [TS]

  because it was it wasn't so picky about [TS]

  all we don't associate with the service [TS]

  we really prefer that you just not use [TS]

  all those horses and come use us at [TS]

  gmail recognizes that you're gonna have [TS]

  a lot of email addresses and identities [TS]

  and it will it will do anything it will [TS]

  do what it takes to get business what's [TS]

  it gonna take to get you into a gmail [TS]

  today a little do it so final one is is [TS]

  access and this is kind of underlying [TS]

  the whole thing I've been paying enough [TS]

  attention to the chat room but a bit [TS]

  people already screaming about this in [TS]

  terms of appliable you know of course [TS]

  gmail of course Apple mobile me doesn't [TS]

  have as many customers and of course the [TS]

  heavily limitations are us daily guys [TS]

  because they charge money for it they're [TS]

  not it's not a free service unlike all [TS]

  the other ones that we've been talking [TS]

  about you can't get in on Mac or mobile [TS]

  meat without paying money it's 100 bucks [TS]

  a year has been forever and that right [TS]

  away right out the gate limits you to [TS]

  the number of people you're going to [TS]

  have and if that Mac was like really [TS]

  awesome paying for it can make people [TS]

  feel more secure does you be like well [TS]

  you're using that free thing but at any [TS]

  second that could be because you're not [TS]

  paying the money but I pay for my [TS]

  service and I feel more secure with it [TS]

  well and that was that was one of the [TS]

  very big things about the first [TS]

  generation of what we'll call webmail [TS]

  services whether it was hotmail or [TS]

  whoever was oh well that's free could go [TS]

  away could break it could you know and [TS]

  they're not going to they're not going [TS]

  to help you they're not going to care [TS]

  and people would pick Apple services for [TS]

  that reason well I know I'm paying for [TS]

  this so it's gonna be good yeah and if [TS]

  Apple was if Apple was great at all the [TS]

  other things I just listed reliability [TS]

  performance feature [TS]

  as if Apple did a good job on those [TS]

  paying for would make you feel more [TS]

  secure but they're not the best that in [TS]

  those things so I think paying for makes [TS]

  you feel less secure because then you [TS]

  start going to getting into the negative [TS]

  side of paying for things and here's two [TS]

  aspects of the negative side one is that [TS]

  when something like home page being [TS]

  retired comes in you feel even more [TS]

  betrayed because like what is like what [TS]

  what have I been paying all this money [TS]

  for if not to ensure the longevity of [TS]

  these you know the first three years of [TS]

  my kid's life that I put up on the web [TS]

  and you tell them he's going to go away [TS]

  why am I even paying for this if I [TS]

  wanted someone to just dump my data I [TS]

  would have taken one of the free [TS]

  services just I kind of expect that from [TS]

  them because hey I never paid them any [TS]

  money you get what you pay for [TS]

  I've been paying a hundred dollars a [TS]

  year and you do this so it you know it [TS]

  reverses itself on Apple it becomes a [TS]

  detriment and the other one is that [TS]

  you're always one missed bill away from [TS]

  losing everything like that's not really [TS]

  true Apple has grace periods and they'll [TS]

  preserve your stuff and you can keep [TS]

  your name if you miss a bill and renew [TS]

  and do all this stuff but there's the [TS]

  perception that since you're paying for [TS]

  it if you stop paying for it then [TS]

  everything is gone and then then you [TS]

  feel trapped by like well I've got all [TS]

  this stuff on this service but I hate [TS]

  the service I really don't want to use [TS]

  it anymore but but I've got it because [TS]

  if I stopped paying for it then all my [TS]

  stuff is gone and and that makes people [TS]

  feel bitter about having paid for it [TS]

  like all they trapped me because like I [TS]

  pay all this money now I have to pay [TS]

  them forever if I want my stuff to all [TS]

  the negative because their bed and all [TS]

  those other things all the negative [TS]

  aspects of paying come out I'm not going [TS]

  to say that paying for it is bad I think [TS]

  paying for it could've been a huge huge [TS]

  plus if they were good at it but since [TS]

  they're bad at it paying for it becomes [TS]

  a negative it's lips over to the other [TS]

  side ah I'm gonna do a little sidebar [TS]

  and ping so we mostly just been talking [TS]

  about mobile news anyone remember ping [TS]

  how long ago was that it seems like a [TS]

  long time ago doesn't I really wasn't [TS]

  but yeah it really seems like ages ago [TS]

  and I did you try it did you sign you [TS]

  know sign up for it and try it out I did [TS]

  I tried to try it was I successful at [TS]

  trying it I I tried to do whatever it is [TS]

  they wanted me to do with ping but I [TS]

  just feel like ping was DOA [TS]

  yeah really wasn't it maybe it took two [TS]

  days to realize that three days but I'll [TS]

  be honest with you John I [TS]

  I don't really think of myself as an [TS]

  Apple fanboy although I probably [TS]

  probably am I mean I'm rational enough [TS]

  to see that I probably am like it's like [TS]

  when you you kind of get the idea you [TS]

  have a problem and everyone tells you [TS]

  you have the problem you kind of start [TS]

  to believe them I can see that so it at [TS]

  least at least what I would say is that [TS]

  I'm always I want Apple to be successful [TS]

  because I really like the stuff that [TS]

  Apple makes and that that's the way that [TS]

  I see it and when they do something like [TS]

  this it it wasn't so much like I don't [TS]

  think anybody was surprised that ping [TS]

  was sort of as you say is sort of DOA [TS]

  but it it's almost the kind of thing [TS]

  like with MobileMe dot Mac I really want [TS]

  Apple to do it right I really want them [TS]

  to get it right I really want them to [TS]

  buy Dropbox and and or or do whatever it [TS]

  takes to make Dropbox just always there [TS]

  on every Mac that I ever use or give to [TS]

  my family member or anything any any [TS]

  just make it part of the OS whether you [TS]

  buy them or license it I don't care just [TS]

  get it in there make it part of it that [TS]

  that makes sense to me and MobileMe [TS]

  having a service like that and doing it [TS]

  right makes sense to me and I would [TS]

  rather pay Apple or use app something [TS]

  Apple build than something that the [TS]

  Google build but not because I don't [TS]

  like Google but because the integration [TS]

  is usually better when you are sticking [TS]

  on the Apple side of things usually I'd [TS]

  I have I use Google apps I use tons of [TS]

  stuff on Google I don't dislike them at [TS]

  all and I've had an Android phone for [TS]

  the better part of a year and I was [TS]

  somewhat content with that I have no [TS]

  problem with Google so here's the thing [TS]

  John when I looked at ping the first [TS]

  question I thought why is Apple doing [TS]

  this I get why they would do mobile me [TS]

  why would they do ping what are a lot of [TS]

  reasons for them to have done ping from [TS]

  like a synergy perspective I'm doing the [TS]

  air quotes now yeah in terms of helping [TS]

  to make it more fun to buy things in [TS]

  iTunes or to buy music you know the [TS]

  social aspect amuses it's a lot of [TS]

  companies making money off that but of [TS]

  all the things that we just listed all [TS]

  those different categories if I had to [TS]

  pick one category that killed ping [TS]

  only I think it only really takes one [TS]

  thing to kill pain wasn't reliability [TS]

  because it for the time that it was [TS]

  there it's still there I guess it worked [TS]

  fine it was like down performance seemed [TS]

  to be okay compared to you know other [TS]

  online things that wasn't really [TS]

  intensive in terms of data volume [TS]

  features kind of fell down there but [TS]

  like a version one you always expect to [TS]

  not have a lot of features but access is [TS]

  the reason that ping cratered and access [TS]

  starts from the the basic interaction [TS]

  with ping and that it was only in iTunes [TS]

  you don't make an online service that [TS]

  you can't use in a web browser in 2010 [TS]

  you just don't game over [TS]

  anything you can only do an iTunes is [TS]

  not an online service the store works [TS]

  only in iTunes because they control the [TS]

  store it's the only way to get to the [TS]

  iTunes Store that's why they want to do [TS]

  it fine I'll buy stuff there and hey [TS]

  that's where the media is going anyway [TS]

  but ping is supposed to be a social [TS]

  thing and if I can only use a social [TS]

  thing from iTunes forget it it's dead um [TS]

  and the other thing was they tied it so [TS]

  heavily the iTunes again is their [TS]

  unwillingness to be promiscuous only the [TS]

  songs you bought in iTunes participated [TS]

  in this you know world of sharing [TS]

  alright what well you have tons and tons [TS]

  of music that people have never heard of [TS]

  that's not on the iTunes Store and you [TS]

  want to like share and talk about it [TS]

  lots of services let you do that like a [TS]

  I don't know a last.fm and a few other [TS]

  things like that where what's that other [TS]

  one the smell alone forgetting the name [TS]

  of where they will go to great lengths [TS]

  to catalog and add metadata for and [TS]

  figure out all this obscure music that [TS]

  people have because they're not trying [TS]

  to sell you the music they just they [TS]

  know that you want to share your tastes [TS]

  and if you like some weird you know [TS]

  drum only band from Africa that no one's [TS]

  ever heard of that has never released [TS]

  anything except for on the internet and [TS]

  you have a track of that you want to [TS]

  share that with people and you want to [TS]

  annotate it with a metadata and maybe [TS]

  the seven other people who are into that [TS]

  band will do it too and you can just [TS]

  share your appreciation for music the [TS]

  doing it the way that they did it I mean [TS]

  I like I understand that they wanted to [TS]

  play in this but this is the thing that [TS]

  surprised me so much about paying is [TS]

  that usually I look at look at the way [TS]

  that that Apple launches a product a [TS]

  physical tangible product I mean look at [TS]

  the MacBook Air recently the the iPhone [TS]

  4 the iPad 2 all of these things [TS]

  they they create something I don't want [TS]

  to call it flawless but they create [TS]

  something that's awesome and when there [TS]

  are flaws they do a really good job of [TS]

  downplaying them and usually what the [TS]

  flaws that are there are not they're not [TS]

  they're not killer flaws right they're [TS]

  not things that are like all that [TS]

  product is no good but then whenever [TS]

  they launch an online service like this [TS]

  it it really doesn't match it really [TS]

  doesn't you can't say that about it you [TS]

  can't say that there aren't usually and [TS]

  that flaws are usually showstoppers in [TS]

  some cases I mean even with Game Center [TS]

  the way that when people add you and you [TS]

  keep getting notifications things like [TS]

  that that maybe they address but there [TS]

  there are issues there that are [TS]

  potentially show-stopping issues and [TS]

  ping was just so not usable it was not [TS]

  friendly was not fun to use it it [TS]

  revealed information you didn't want if [TS]

  you hid the information you'd get [TS]

  thousands of emails and people asking [TS]

  for your you know to you to be their [TS]

  friend I mean it was just it was it did [TS]

  so many things wrong and it's like how [TS]

  can Apple who does such a great job [TS]

  building these amazing devices that we'd [TS]

  love to use so not get it with a service [TS]

  like this I had that Facebook [TS]

  integration that reportedly fell through [TS]

  at the last moment but you know that I [TS]

  wouldn't use as an excuse because Apple [TS]

  supposed to be the company that kills [TS]

  these things if it doesn't adopt [TS]

  expectations you kill it you like all [TS]

  right well it didn't work out we [TS]

  couldn't do the deal with Facebook and [TS]

  without that the old Facebook there's no [TS]

  way this is gonna fly because presumably [TS]

  Facebook would have been the web face of [TS]

  this service so this should have killed [TS]

  it but they launched it anyway and it [TS]

  was a ghost town I think it still is a [TS]

  ghost town [TS]

  there's a couple DIY in the chat who do [TS]

  loved it I guess you could I don't know [TS]

  I don't wanna go too far down the ping [TS]

  hole s or say that the consensus is that [TS]

  it hasn't been a successful service [TS]

  I think that's safe to say now are we [TS]

  ready to start talking about why yeah so [TS]

  before we do let's thank our second [TS]

  sponsor then what do you think about [TS]

  that go for it [TS]

  you're right you're ready for this it's [TS]

  source bits com they provide software [TS]

  design and development services for iOS [TS]

  Android Mac they also do web stuff I bet [TS]

  they know how to sing stuff up source [TS]

  bits is at the bleeding edge of emerging [TS]

  technologies [TS]

  they're deep experience and successful [TS]

  track record ensures that your idea will [TS]

  be transformed into a functional well [TS]

  tested visually stunning world-class app [TS]

  in no time they have to know how to do [TS]

  this and I've been saying this that [TS]

  these guys they really know what they're [TS]

  doing this is this is a full-stack [TS]

  software development house it's not a [TS]

  couple high school kids with a you know [TS]

  with the with an iphone these guys this [TS]

  is the real deal and they they will save [TS]

  you a lot of time and money and then [TS]

  they'll get it done right so if you have [TS]

  an idea for an app you call them source [TS]

  bits calm cutting-edge app development [TS]

  please go check the mountain but no we [TS]

  sent you all right John let's hear it [TS]

  catch - so what seems after having said [TS]

  all this what is it that Apple doesn't [TS]

  understand about online yeah why why can [TS]

  they not get this there are probably a [TS]

  lot of things that understand about long [TS]

  but I picked a few first thing that [TS]

  strikes me is that all the things that [TS]

  make apples hardware and applications [TS]

  and software great make its online [TS]

  efforts bad so because they're so good [TS]

  at doing you know the hardware device [TS]

  and desktop application thing their [TS]

  inclination is to sort of copy those [TS]

  interfaces online and they just don't [TS]

  translate it's a different it's a [TS]

  different thing [TS]

  don't make your online email application [TS]

  look like your desktop one no matter how [TS]

  awesome you think your desktop one or [TS]

  your iOS one or your anything you know [TS]

  don't make your online calendar look [TS]

  like the iPad calendar app they're [TS]

  different things and even though that's [TS]

  your strengths even though you have [TS]

  awesome artists who can make everything [TS]

  look beautiful down to the pixel online [TS]

  is different and the vertical [TS]

  integration where they say well we make [TS]

  the hardware the software the whole [TS]

  stack online you can't do the whole [TS]

  stack you don't you're not an ISP you [TS]

  don't control the wires you don't [TS]

  control stuff on the users you know [TS]

  users end of things you don't control [TS]

  how they're going to look at your your [TS]

  product you can't make it iOS only for [TS]

  your web application or anything like [TS]

  that you can't make people use your [TS]

  iTunes application to use your social [TS]

  network you just can't do that vertical [TS]

  integration it's a minus not a plus and [TS]

  online and an online by its nature is [TS]

  about openness and sharing so Apple [TS]

  can't have total control of everything [TS]

  this goes against their very nature they [TS]

  don't want openness and sharing [TS]

  they don't want to touch or interact [TS]

  with or deal with other services like [TS]

  Gmail does sucking in all the email [TS]

  everything that because now they're [TS]

  relying on other parties like what if [TS]

  they change their API we have to keep [TS]

  chasing their API around we have it's [TS]

  just it's hard to cooperate with other [TS]

  people because that means you rely on [TS]

  other people on Apple seems [TS]

  constitutionally incapable of entering [TS]

  into agreements where they rely on the [TS]

  third party and we had lots of other [TS]

  shows about this same issue they just [TS]

  feel that they can't trust other people [TS]

  but online you have to it's all about [TS]

  integration API is it's all about when [TS]

  that guy changes their API you change [TS]

  yours you cooperate you make deals we [TS]

  participate in an open relationship and [TS]

  that underlies everything that has to do [TS]

  with online and Apple doesn't work like [TS]

  that they're there for pay business [TS]

  model Apple wants you to pay money for [TS]

  everything that's their business that's [TS]

  why they have a bazillion dollars [TS]

  because they don't give away stuff for [TS]

  free we make cool things you want them [TS]

  you pay us money but in the online world [TS]

  and online services the for pay business [TS]

  model is really hard [TS]

  majority ones out there are free and you [TS]

  could say the fruit that free ones are [TS]

  bad then they're you know if you're not [TS]

  paying for a product then you are the [TS]

  products because they're just selling [TS]

  you to advertisers this is all true and [TS]

  people don't like it but the bottom line [TS]

  is that online no one has really figured [TS]

  out the for pay business model with the [TS]

  exception of small things to businesses [TS]

  like 37signals and stuff like that all [TS]

  the big email things are free all of the [TS]

  you know big photo sharing sites are [TS]

  free Facebook is free you know you can [TS]

  complain about the model you want but [TS]

  the bottom line is that Apple hasn't [TS]

  figured it out either so if you're going [TS]

  to do for pay and you're not going to do [TS]

  it any better than anybody else you're [TS]

  going to be limited just like the New [TS]

  York Times pay wall thing they're trying [TS]

  to do even the New York Times is trying [TS]

  to figure out how do we get people to [TS]

  pay for things online yeah who knows how [TS]

  they're going to do everyone's trying to [TS]

  crack this nut but Apple hasn't cracked [TS]

  it either and it's really hurting them [TS]

  and they just you know people keep this [TS]

  as rumors about mold me being free I [TS]

  don't know if that solves any problems [TS]

  or anything but it being for pay for [TS]

  such a long time as hurt Apple in many [TS]

  different ways especially since it's [TS]

  been such a bad service [TS]

  and the final thing is that online [TS]

  services our server centric Apple is not [TS]

  like that Apple is device centric you're [TS]

  the data is here and we may synchronize [TS]

  it through a waypoint on the internet [TS]

  back [TS]

  back [TS]

  down to some other device but the [TS]

  devices are canonical and they [TS]

  synchronize with each other through a [TS]

  middleman instead of the server being [TS]

  canonical and the devices are just local [TS]

  incarnations that data briefly and this [TS]

  to flip this around I'm going to pick [TS]

  Google as the leader in in the online [TS]

  service space I don't think that's a [TS]

  controversial choice and I say what what [TS]

  does Google understand about this that [TS]

  Apple doesn't to turn it around on them [TS]

  I think Google's greatest strengths [TS]

  actually I'm going to ask you this [TS]

  because I always wonder what people say [TS]

  what do you think Google's greatest [TS]

  strengths as a company is in this realm [TS]

  of online stuff that's a tough one I [TS]

  mean I think it's it's clearly not user [TS]

  interface design that's good you've [TS]

  eliminated one maybe it'd be easier to [TS]

  eliminate them than two in order to [TS]

  identify it honestly I really I think I [TS]

  think what they understand what they do [TS]

  very well is provide the kind of [TS]

  services that people want to use they [TS]

  don't waste a lot of time and maybe [TS]

  waste is the wrong word but they don't [TS]

  waste a lot of time trying to create [TS]

  unique experiences they just provide [TS]

  tons and tons of services that generally [TS]

  meet with most of the criteria that you [TS]

  identified at the top of the show they [TS]

  generally tend I mean sure everything is [TS]

  going to have downtime but generally [TS]

  they tend to be fairly reliable they [TS]

  tend to be very accessible they tend to [TS]

  be either free or very affordable and [TS]

  they really meet those criteria do you [TS]

  identify I should add this to the topic [TS]

  best show on everything that's wrong [TS]

  with Google because I have a lot to say [TS]

  about what's wrong with Google and there [TS]

  is a lot let's do that but but this [TS]

  particular thing Apple are Google's [TS]

  great what do you think it is you're [TS]

  nibbling at the edges of it but maybe [TS]

  you have to I'm surprised you didn't get [TS]

  this busy work in this area before but I [TS]

  think Google's greatest strength is [TS]

  operations in terms of everyone has a [TS]

  different word for this but the servers [TS]

  they operate in the infrastructure [TS]

  and this is general generally speaking [TS]

  you're talking about the infrastructure [TS]

  the way that they have their data [TS]

  centers running the way every machine [TS]

  has its own internal ups the way that [TS]

  machines are all in [TS]

  replacing them with one another and from [TS]

  the micro level all the way up to the [TS]

  big big level and coming of this with [TS]

  Apple like Apple in the enterprise we [TS]

  already went over a little bit but do [TS]

  you think that's what next is that what [TS]

  makes Google successful well yeah so let [TS]

  me just finish this will be quick as [TS]

  with the last second last bit here so we [TS]

  know why Apple doesn't work well with [TS]

  the enterprise they ditch the Xserve [TS]

  they don't like announcing their [TS]

  schedules ahead of time they don't like [TS]

  supporting the enterprise the thing the [TS]

  enterprise values is like price [TS]

  performance they don't care about [TS]

  elegance and Apple just doesn't work [TS]

  with that and in the enterprise when [TS]

  Apple has to do enterprise stuff right [TS]

  it has to have servers and things like [TS]

  that and Apple can't use its own [TS]

  hardware and software to do that stuff [TS]

  anymore now that it's ditching the [TS]

  Xserve certainly but even before a bunch [TS]

  of 1u exurbs apples not running us [TS]

  entire business on that they have to use [TS]

  products from other vendors other [TS]

  vendors who are willing to go into that [TS]

  dirty realm of faceless servers that are [TS]

  ugly and disgusting commodity hardware [TS]

  and stuff that you expect to break and [TS]

  stuff like that Apple has to use that to [TS]

  run its business just like every other [TS]

  business but it doesn't make that stuff [TS]

  so it's kind of like oh you know that's [TS]

  that other thing I imagine managers at [TS]

  Apple who are in charge of these [TS]

  divisions they just want this stuff to [TS]

  work they don't care about like you're [TS]

  using Sun using Linux servers what are [TS]

  you using to to route the mail to store [TS]

  the mail using EMC storage are you [TS]

  making you know they don't want to be [TS]

  bothered with details just make it work [TS]

  just make it work fast I don't care [TS]

  about it because it's not Apple [TS]

  technology it's not like the other state [TS]

  in the case is bi they say well I don't [TS]

  care what you do with that phone just [TS]

  make it a cool phone no that's their [TS]

  bread and butter we make phones that's [TS]

  what we do as a company as Apple as a [TS]

  company says doesn't say we make awesome [TS]

  servers and we run data centers they [TS]

  don't do that at all so they don't [TS]

  didn't want to know about it just make [TS]

  it work it's just not their strength but [TS]

  flipped on the flip side Google that's [TS]

  what the company Google is all about [TS]

  this is their core competency I think [TS]

  beyond like search and advertising what [TS]

  they make their money on stuff like that [TS]

  the core competency of Google is [TS]

  operations data center operations and it [TS]

  shows Google has built this massive [TS]

  general-purpose infrastructure they run [TS]

  their whole company on MapReduce GFS [TS]

  BigTable those services were not easy to [TS]

  make cost a lot of money took a lot of [TS]

  time a lot of really smart people and [TS]

  they made them general-purpose so they [TS]

  can run their entire business on the on [TS]

  those things every kind of product [TS]

  from the Duds like Google Wave that [TS]

  sucks to the great things like Gmail is [TS]

  awesome all built on the same common [TS]

  infrastructure of services and they and [TS]

  they improve those infrastructure and [TS]

  they revise it they do what Apple does [TS]

  with its consumer products or apples [TS]

  comes out with one iPod and they make it [TS]

  better and they make it smaller and they [TS]

  have multiple models and they make the [TS]

  version two and they make the version [TS]

  three and just gets better and better [TS]

  and races ahead of everybody Google has [TS]

  done that not I guess you could say it's [TS]

  not it was search or Gmail stuff like [TS]

  that but they do it with their [TS]

  infrastructure most importantly GFS a [TS]

  version two BigTable didn't exist that [TS]

  then you know MapReduce has been revised [TS]

  I got over a hundred and fifty different [TS]

  versions of how they do the data centers [TS]

  and the reason you know this is Google's [TS]

  core competency is that they don't tell [TS]

  you anything about it they don't talk [TS]

  about it they do white papers on these [TS]

  things I do white papers and that [TS]

  produced in GFS and BigTable but when it [TS]

  comes to like revealing their secrets [TS]

  they won't tell you how the data center [TS]

  works they won't tell you details and [TS]

  how they deal with hardware failures and [TS]

  how they arrange your infrastructure and [TS]

  geographically distributing data centers [TS]

  and stuff like that they give you vague [TS]

  terms enough for them to brag but that [TS]

  is their you know that in their search [TS]

  algorithms are their secret and they [TS]

  won't tell you that the same way Apple [TS]

  won't tell you how it makes you know iOS [TS]

  or makes it's great applications and [TS]

  this is the biggest difference between [TS]

  Apple and Google and I think is Google's [TS]

  biggest strengths because Google's going [TS]

  to make dud products like Chris [TS]

  mentioned wave and or couldn't God knows [TS]

  what else they're doing and they're [TS]

  going to make good products but they're [TS]

  all going to be built on a big solid [TS]

  foundation the same way Apple is going [TS]

  to make good applications in bed but [TS]

  they're all going to be built on a solid [TS]

  foundation of Apple understands hardware [TS]

  and software integration use your [TS]

  interface design all that stuff and this [TS]

  is I think the big sort of schism [TS]

  between the two companies and the [TS]

  biggest chasm between Google anyone else [TS]

  because other companies even if they're [TS]

  in this business don't consider that [TS]

  data center operations general-purpose [TS]

  infrastructure stuff to be like the most [TS]

  important thing they do and Google with [TS]

  its money but it's time with this effort [TS]

  with this manpower has shown that [TS]

  products come and go but the [TS]

  infrastructure is what you build your [TS]

  company on and they continue to build [TS]

  and revise infrastructure to be ready [TS]

  for any product that anyone comes up [TS]

  with to support it to have those things [TS]

  we talk about reliability performance [TS]

  access everything well I think I think I [TS]

  think it's time to invoke Godwin's law [TS]

  or Godwin's law of these shows which is [TS]

  the north carolina apple day [TS]

  Center I get the pressed want to think [TS]

  about that because it's like it's like [TS]

  giving a you know a machine gun to a [TS]

  baby yeah you know this big datacenter [TS]

  Apple what do you know Apple dot running [TS]

  big day nice I was like I say well we [TS]

  run you know the biggest music store in [TS]

  the world and we do this it's just a [TS]

  different category of stuff but the [TS]

  store business is a lot of it is [TS]

  read-only data distributed on CD ends [TS]

  it's very different than running an [TS]

  interactive web application and they [TS]

  have nowhere near the infrastructure [TS]

  expertise and systems to support generic [TS]

  applications that Google does so how did [TS]

  it get it oh the first thing they have [TS]

  to do is figure out that this is their [TS]

  problem they don't they've they don't [TS]

  have this as a core competency and maybe [TS]

  you can't be good at both I would my [TS]

  last little bit here is the heading is [TS]

  Paradise Lost and think back to five [TS]

  years ago six years ago before the [TS]

  iPhone certainly you know maybe even [TS]

  before the iPod or around that time the [TS]

  dream that the tech nerd dream was who [TS]

  can have Apple hardware and software and [TS]

  Google online services remember when [TS]

  they had Eric Schmidt on the board and [TS]

  we joined the board it's like boy this [TS]

  is a great relationship because Apple [TS]

  makes the best right you consumer [TS]

  devices they make awesome software and I [TS]

  love their apps and everything I love [TS]

  their OS and Google Google has that [TS]

  great search and they do great online [TS]

  stuff the two of these guys together it [TS]

  would be synergy but instead what has [TS]

  actually happened is that both of the [TS]

  businesses have sort of aggressively [TS]

  expanded into each other's turf and now [TS]

  we have a situation where Apple sucks at [TS]

  Google's business Apple can't do servers [TS]

  operations or anything like that [TS]

  and Google sucks at Apple's business [TS]

  Google can't do user interfaces consumer [TS]

  hardware software UI all that stuff now [TS]

  let's roll back let's go roll back the [TS]

  clock a little bit and say let's say [TS]

  Google never did Android never did [TS]

  Android and they never stepped into that [TS]

  space at all and Eric was still on the [TS]

  board why wouldn't a police a you know [TS]

  what the Google guys really do [TS]

  understand operations they really do [TS]

  understand you know Jon Syracuse's three [TS]

  rules for success ah we're just going to [TS]

  do everything we can do to integrate [TS]

  with these great services and and you [TS]

  know we know Google's going to be around [TS]

  so we're just going to fully integrate [TS]

  we're going to fully embrace I mean you [TS]

  see little hints of that you you know [TS]

  iCal kind [TS]

  of integrates with Google Calendar and [TS]

  address book [TS]

  weirdly integrates with Google contact I [TS]

  mean you know iPhone kind of supports [TS]

  some of the the Gmail stuff so they [TS]

  could be a lot better there and clearly [TS]

  those are very straightforward solvable [TS]

  problems that doesn't take a cultural [TS]

  change at Apple those are things that [TS]

  just don't well will will support the [TS]

  API really well and apples go to doing [TS]

  that do you think that is that what's [TS]

  stopping it is that why they're not [TS]

  embracing it or is it is it the whole [TS]

  thing that happened with Microsoft where [TS]

  they said never again will we be tied to [TS]

  another external company that we we [TS]

  can't control I think it's just that the [TS]

  the philosophy of independence of not [TS]

  relying on outsiders that is serve them [TS]

  so very well in all other aspects of [TS]

  their business they can't they can't [TS]

  break from for this other aspect they [TS]

  saying well it's worked out great for [TS]

  everything else we've ever done why [TS]

  shouldn't also work out great and online [TS]

  and maybe it's difficult to have a [TS]

  company where you're of two minds about [TS]

  something we're in this realm we have to [TS]

  cooperate and be open or we have to rely [TS]

  on Google like if they're going to rely [TS]

  on Google to the extent that I don't [TS]

  think you know Apple didn't even like [TS]

  rely on Google for maps for the phone [TS]

  they said we got to get our own map [TS]

  company let's buy that map come let's [TS]

  get their map dated we got to get off [TS]

  google map but they don't like relying [TS]

  on Google research we got to do this [TS]

  thing with Bing to try to keep Google on [TS]

  its toes they don't like relying on [TS]

  outsiders but in an online world and [TS]

  online services you absolutely have to [TS]

  not just rely on but like it's a [TS]

  relationship it's 100% integration no [TS]

  one with the exception possibly Facebook [TS]

  which I hate by the way that could be [TS]

  another show no one is an island you [TS]

  have to integrate with other people you [TS]

  have to cooperate yes that means that [TS]

  you rely on them but then they rely on [TS]

  you too it becomes a symbiotic [TS]

  relationship you can't go it alone and [TS]

  it's kind of it's horrible that we had [TS]

  the situation where we had Google who [TS]

  was great and online and Apple that was [TS]

  great [TS]

  it consumer electronics and UI and it [TS]

  seems like you guys just get together [TS]

  you can you know work together but you [TS]

  know they didn't they instead they [TS]

  decided they each wanted to do [TS]

  everything and they each do each other's [TS]

  business badly I maybe it's the case [TS]

  that if one of them had gotten bigger [TS]

  than the other and they had bought each [TS]

  other like Apple buys Google Google buy [TS]

  his Apple back in the day you'd say well [TS]

  finally it's the best of both worlds [TS]

  it's chocolate and peanut butter we get [TS]

  everything we need [TS]

  eat in one company but it seems like [TS]

  maybe the philosophy of one company or [TS]

  the other would come to dominate the [TS]

  other so if it was Google buying Apple [TS]

  eventually the vertical integration and [TS]

  attention to user interface detail and [TS]

  everything would disappear because [TS]

  Google's philosophy that serves them [TS]

  well online would overwhelm the [TS]

  philosophy the serves Apple well and [TS]

  it's realm or vice versa that Apple will [TS]

  buy Google and then try to amplify it [TS]

  and say yeah well Google is not going to [TS]

  be a good net citizen anymore because we [TS]

  want to be our own we want to control [TS]

  everything we don't rely on anybody else [TS]

  so it's just a bad situation I think the [TS]

  solution is either the easy solutions [TS]

  are stick to what you're good at and if [TS]

  that's too pessimistic you say well if [TS]

  we stick to what we're good at we would [TS]

  never grow growth means becoming good to [TS]

  other things well if you want to become [TS]

  good at other things then you have to [TS]

  figure out some way to have two ideas in [TS]

  your mind at the same time within you [TS]

  know the the fictional brain of the [TS]

  company do what's best for your consumer [TS]

  products and your user interfaces and [TS]

  your desktop stuff here but when it [TS]

  comes to online do like Google does more [TS]

  or less and you can't you can't have one [TS]

  philosophy for the whole company because [TS]

  the businesses are just too different [TS]

  there's a couple things that scroll by [TS]

  in the chat room then I want to address [TS]

  before we wrap this up okay where was [TS]

  one of them so some someone was saying [TS]

  that uh I said that Google's cruddy it [TS]

  consumer electronics of stuff and [TS]

  someone mentioned that there is actually [TS]

  doing better in the foam realm phone [TS]

  realm in terms of social and syncing and [TS]

  I would agree because that's the [TS]

  intersection between you know the [TS]

  consumer device and the OS which Apple [TS]

  does really well but once you start [TS]

  getting into the realm of synchronizing [TS]

  contacts or having interfaces with other [TS]

  network services Google does that better [TS]

  or pom for that matter pom you turn on [TS]

  the palm phone you enter your [TS]

  information it will suck down everything [TS]

  from every other service and integrated [TS]

  into a unified inbox and the server is [TS]

  canonic and all that stuff as soon as [TS]

  even in the Apple's devices that are [TS]

  awesome as soon as you touch the online [TS]

  realm other companies superior [TS]

  philosophy serves them better there and [TS]

  gives a better experience to the user or [TS]

  like people love the Google phones where [TS]

  you get a new Google phone you just type [TS]

  in your your Google ID and password and [TS]

  boom everything you want is there and [TS]

  that's a demo that I think Apple would [TS]

  love to give but give but they don't [TS]

  understand to make that happen you have [TS]

  to be like Google in that realm yeah [TS]

  some of the people in a chat room would [TS]

  they were saying John that [TS]

  well you know what what doesn't work [TS]

  with the iOS integration what's not [TS]

  what's broken for you what's and I did I [TS]

  didn't didn't mean to imply that it [TS]

  doesn't work it just again I used an [TS]

  Android phone for a long time and you [TS]

  you give it your username and password [TS]

  and everything is there and it yeah sure [TS]

  maybe you don't want everything to be [TS]

  there but you can turn things off but it [TS]

  the integration is seamless and it's [TS]

  it's across all apps it's across the [TS]

  whole OS and again yeah I mean it that [TS]

  might be more than Apple would want to [TS]

  do and they've they've done a good job [TS]

  of making things integrate but they [TS]

  really they really could do more I feel [TS]

  like and I really wish there was a world [TS]

  where Google never started stepping on [TS]

  Apple stuff and vice versa because I [TS]

  think the two of them together just [TS]

  content that what they were doing would [TS]

  would have been better for us as [TS]

  consumers all right maybe it wouldn't [TS]

  have been better maybe they would have [TS]

  just computed on something else but it's [TS]

  clear where each company's strengths and [TS]

  weaknesses are and it's a shame that [TS]

  they both want to do full stack they [TS]

  just want to be want to do everything [TS]

  themselves it's is an advantage to Apple [TS]

  mostly at this point because you can [TS]

  take your Apple phone and connect to [TS]

  Google's services with it even if you're [TS]

  just using Safari like my email [TS]

  application on my iPod touch I use [TS]

  Safari with the Gmail interface I don't [TS]

  use Apple's Mail app because I find the [TS]

  web as cruddy as it is I find the web [TS]

  app interface the Gmail superior to [TS]

  trying to do IMAP or pop to my gigantic [TS]

  email which just has crushed many a [TS]

  desktop email client how gigantic is it [TS]

  one I don't think it's even that big [TS]

  it's only a couple gigabytes and but I [TS]

  get a lot of I get a lot of mail bus I'm [TS]

  a lot on a lot of mailing lists and I [TS]

  have a lot of labels you just I need [TS]

  full access to the Gmail interface to [TS]

  deal with that if it has to download all [TS]

  those messages I'll be waiting around [TS]

  forever for it to download whereas Gmail [TS]

  just shows me the screen and you know [TS]

  the server has already got them it just [TS]

  sent me the summaries I didn't have to [TS]

  wait for the entire messages to be [TS]

  downloaded locally I don't know it's [TS]

  whatever the problem is I have not have [TS]

  found desktop application mail [TS]

  application that can handle my volume of [TS]

  email and my IMAP and all my labels with [TS]

  Gmail as successfully as just using the [TS]

  web interface see for me I'm so [TS]

  sensitive to a bad [TS]

  user experience that Gmail is completely [TS]

  unusable for me I I never use it I need [TS]

  to me if I mail app I mean that's not [TS]

  the best app either I like it but it's [TS]

  it's not the most amazing app either but [TS]

  it's so far and above better of a user [TS]

  experience for me I probably don't get [TS]

  as much I get I get a lot of mail but [TS]

  probably it sounds like you get even [TS]

  more I still use it and even if it's [TS]

  slower I'd rather have it be slower and [TS]

  and work the way it works then have to [TS]

  use the Gmail and and for me it's so bad [TS]

  that like if mail app stops responding [TS]

  for some reason once in a while you know [TS]

  there IMAP gateway is offline or [TS]

  something I just won't check mail I [TS]

  won't I would I never never even occurs [TS]

  to me to use the Gmail interface it's so [TS]

  bad like for me that would be like I'm [TS]

  stranded at an airport in the only way I [TS]

  can send an email is to use the Gmail [TS]

  interface like then I might might use it [TS]

  you you might be converted yet because I [TS]

  used to be you I was a hardcore desktop [TS]

  email client user I was Claire's email [TS]

  where was my first love and then yeah [TS]

  entourage and then I'm on the outlook [TS]

  which I have to use for work because of [TS]

  exchanger but I have all these things on [TS]

  my local computer too and I was I said [TS]

  there's no way I'll ever use a web [TS]

  interface melih always use a desktop [TS]

  client and without making a conscious [TS]

  decision I slowly sort of just drifted [TS]

  over to the web interface and I agree [TS]

  that it's worse than the desktop [TS]

  interface in many ways but the ways it [TS]

  is superior just one out instantly its [TS]

  members are the cool board commands and [TS]

  stuff I do I do [TS]

  server-side rules was that was the big [TS]

  one though because I hated having to [TS]

  keep rules updated because I get so much [TS]

  mail a lot of it is mailing lists my [TS]

  like it's so much of it it all has to be [TS]

  routed like very little lands in my [TS]

  inbox inbox everything is routed [TS]

  somewhere sometimes multiple ear outed [TS]

  or auto-reply doing lots of complicated [TS]

  stuff going on there and doing that in [TS]

  seven different desktop clients killed [TS]

  me and then if I was over someone else's [TS]

  house I couldn't check my mail there if [TS]

  I looked it in the web interface things [TS]

  wouldn't get routed right so I just put [TS]

  all the rules on the server and then the [TS]

  clients just reflect what the server has [TS]

  already done because of the way Google [TS]

  does its email with the IMAP and the [TS]

  labels and everything it's not a good [TS]

  fit for desktop clients and if I try to [TS]

  use a desktop client with my Gmail like [TS]

  I'll move a message but then it won't it [TS]

  won't show up as moved or it'll be in [TS]

  both places or I'll market [TS]

  red but then it will not be read or be [TS]

  read in one folder but not on the other [TS]

  that mismatch between online in the [TS]

  desktop world it made me maybe make a [TS]

  choice [TS]

  it's like what you're going to are the [TS]

  advantage of online enough to keep you [TS]

  into that thing are you going to fight [TS]

  it on the on the desktop and I just I [TS]

  just gave in and I made the Gmail web [TS]

  interface my main interface to email and [TS]

  that's how I do everything I still use [TS]

  desktop clients I use it at work I use [TS]

  them at home too and I use it at home [TS]

  mostly so that I have all my email in a [TS]

  local cop because I still do have that [TS]

  paranoia so I always have I don't I [TS]

  don't I map from Gmail I pop from Gmail [TS]

  so all my mail is on my computer and [TS]

  backed up 50 times in blah blah blah [TS]

  from the backup episode but my main [TS]

  interface to email is with Gmail and [TS]

  maybe eventually you will come around to [TS]

  that as well it really it really depends [TS]

  it depends on how much I don't know if [TS]

  you do everything from a home office [TS]

  maybe you don't the move around as much [TS]

  but if you have to even just go to home [TS]

  and work and deal with that and you want [TS]

  to like look at your personal email from [TS]

  home having a weapon from work rather [TS]

  having a web interface is nice that was [TS]

  actually you've identified the last time [TS]

  that I used a web interface for mail and [TS]

  I'm fairly sure this is before Gmail [TS]

  existed because I certainly would have [TS]

  used Gmail or at least it was there was [TS]

  there must have been a reason like maybe [TS]

  I was always using a domain and I didn't [TS]

  didn't want to use a pure Gmail before [TS]

  Google Apps but I worked at a very large [TS]

  telecommunications company I had to use [TS]

  their windows you know 2000 was brand [TS]

  new had to use that machine and used a [TS]

  web mail client just so that I could do [TS]

  email but it was like one where you [TS]

  could host your own domain with them [TS]

  they would give you a web interface and [TS]

  you could use that to send mail and of [TS]

  course at home I had everything popping [TS]

  down that was only storms those are the [TS]

  worst interfaces where it's just some [TS]

  random ISP or something is horrible [TS]

  because it just goes to show like web [TS]

  mail interfaces are hard to do and [TS]

  Google is among the best in class and if [TS]

  some random company tries to do it you [TS]

  don't want to use it up because I have [TS]

  the same thing for you know various ISPs [TS]

  or small companies that have given me [TS]

  email but I have to use their web [TS]

  interface and you just want to shoot [TS]

  yourself because those are you know [TS]

  so you guys are not Google you're not [TS]

  doing a good job that even if it's fast [TS]

  and everything that's always just ugly [TS]

  the worst was for Microsoft's of course [TS]

  Outlook Web Access do you remember that [TS]

  oh yeah gosh I was terrible that was [TS]

  just hideous that was like the worst of [TS]

  all possible worlds it was you know at [TS]

  least at one Apple trust ate the desktop [TS]

  applications they do a classy job on it [TS]

  that was just some web access was you [TS]

  know one more thing we went by in the [TS]

  chat back someone had to be in their [TS]

  bonnet about all the problems that Gmail [TS]

  and Dropbox have had the drop off ones [TS]

  they were mentioning was that back in [TS]

  the day Dropbox didn't understand the [TS]

  Mac metadata very well so if you through [TS]

  an application bundle into there and you [TS]

  synced it up on another machine the [TS]

  application wouldn't run because it [TS]

  screw up the permissions or didn't [TS]

  handle the Mac metadata correctly you [TS]

  know all the problems that yeah discs [TS]

  are whereas i disk for all its slowness [TS]

  and evil and ridiculousness [TS]

  got 100% of the mac metadata because you [TS]

  know it's Apple doing it that's the [TS]

  number one priority and any file you can [TS]

  put anywhere you should be able to put [TS]

  on an eye disk and have it show up [TS]

  exactly the same on another computer [TS]

  when you pull it up on the eye disk and [TS]

  what I would and ng mail out is to like [TS]

  Gmail losing mail or people having [TS]

  problems with the online services is [TS]

  what I would say about those two things [TS]

  one on the Dropbox problem with with the [TS]

  Mac mandate and everything that that [TS]

  difference in philosophy is part of why [TS]

  Dropbox is better and in the online [TS]

  world it's better to get a solution for [TS]

  80% of the people on there and just get [TS]

  it out the door and what Dropbox found [TS]

  is that yeah all right [TS]

  we don't work with every file we don't [TS]

  understand all your metadata but people [TS]

  also want to do is throw a little file [TS]

  in there there's like a plain file a zip [TS]

  file a JPEG whatever the heck it is and [TS]

  have it show up someplace else and [TS]

  having to be fast reliable and you know [TS]

  access to it and everywhere in every [TS]

  operating system plus a web interface [TS]

  that's more important than oh you drop a [TS]

  little bit of lemon remember the 80% [TS]

  solution it and you have to do that in [TS]

  the online world that's how you get [TS]

  ahead in online you don't don't let [TS]

  perfect be the enemy of good and if you [TS]

  chase perfect you end up with something [TS]

  like I disc you've just completely lost [TS]

  and on a gmail reliability thing [TS]

  Gmail's big out is always what are you [TS]

  paying for this thing we're giving you [TS]

  you know tremendous bandwidth and [TS]

  storage gigabytes of storage memory when [TS]

  they came out they said we're gonna give [TS]

  you two gigs of email storage people [TS]

  thought they were kidding [TS]

  Apple was like a 20 Meg's you paid a [TS]

  hundred dollars a year for like 20 Meg's [TS]

  or whatever it was two hundred Meg's [TS]

  maybe at that point and Google said [TS]

  here's two gigabytes for free and now [TS]

  it's up like [TS]

  seven or whatever the heck is that [TS]

  Gmail's always got that out they said [TS]

  this isn't you're not it's a free [TS]

  service you're not even paying for and [TS]

  you see the services the gmail charges [TS]

  for like that whatever is Gmail [TS]

  applications for businesses where you [TS]

  get your own domain and whatever people [TS]

  complain like crazy about that because I [TS]

  say it's worse than the public interface [TS]

  like it's less reliable it's slower it's [TS]

  crappier and they pay for it and it just [TS]

  burns them that that Gmail for [TS]

  businesses is so horrible when the Gmail [TS]

  for the public I mean I don't for me to [TS]

  tell whether Gmail who businesses is [TS]

  worse then the Gmail for the public or [TS]

  it's just simply the value of the fact [TS]

  once they start paying for they think it [TS]

  should be better so you know you may say [TS]

  it's good or bad but any problem the [TS]

  Gmail haves I always think I've used [TS]

  Gmail for so many years and gotten so [TS]

  much value out of and I've not paid one [TS]

  red cent to them and I don't even see [TS]

  whatever ads I think they're trying to [TS]

  show me so I feel like I'm getting the [TS]

  better side of that deal as long as you [TS]

  protect yourself as I am with having [TS]

  local copies of all your mail and [TS]

  everything I think that's a you know [TS]

  that's a good bargain and it's why Gmail [TS]

  gets away with having a few outages here [TS]

  and there and why MobileMe does not get [TS]

  away with it and shouldn't well well [TS]

  said this is a heavy-duty topic I didn't [TS]

  know it was gonna be such a heavy-duty [TS]

  topic when I picked it yeah it's [TS]

  upsetting when you know a company does [TS]

  one thing so well to something else so [TS]

  poorly next week I think we should do [TS]

  the comments one yeah you always have [TS]

  the choice I oh I just I just made it [TS]

  I just made it comment you just like to [TS]

  tell people what's gonna come I think [TS]

  I'm gonna look forward to see don't [TS]

  don't give in to the demands of users [TS]

  and listeners see that's the topic isn't [TS]

  it you'll say I think I'd be surprised [TS]

  no but I mean that that very statement [TS]

  that you made is the topic [TS]

  don't giving in to listeners and users [TS]

  by allowing time back online that was [TS]

  one of the first topics of putting there [TS]

  because a lot of your early shows with [TS]

  your first couple shows with Marco and a [TS]

  couple of early talk shows where you [TS]

  talked about that a lot of it was about [TS]

  what it's like to have a presence online [TS]

  and what kind of feedback you like [TS]

  getting I don't like getting what the [TS]

  value of it is and then it cut into the [TS]

  whole wide group doesn't have comments [TS]

  on his blog and mark our way then about [TS]

  why he doesn't blog about tech topics so [TS]

  we waited a little long to get to it but [TS]

  I think [TS]

  a lot to talk about next week alright [TS]

  John have a great week have a great [TS]

  weekend now you do thanks everybody for [TS]

  tuning in you can hear previous episodes [TS]

  of this show and others at five-by-five [TS]

  TV and we'd love it if you would [TS]

  consider rating the show in itunes [TS]

  somebody I think did just a to bug John [TS]

  gave a really positive review and then a [TS]

  one-star rating now what they did John [TS]

  they did I got the joke it's clever cool [TS]

  but don't do that give us the good [TS]

  ratings because it helps new people find [TS]

  out about the show we want to say thanks [TS]

  to source Fitz calm and don't forget to [TS]

  go to audible podcast.com slash [TS]

  hypercritical to get your free audiobook [TS]

  and two-week trial and and that's it so [TS]

  thanks John we'll see you next week all [TS]

  right bye [TS]

  you [TS]