4: iOS vs. The World


  hi I'm Dan benjamin the founder [TS]

  five-by-five it has been exactly one [TS]

  year since I started 5x5 and I wanted to [TS]

  take a moment to say thanks so much to [TS]

  you for listening for all of your [TS]

  donations for your kind ratings in [TS]

  iTunes and for all of the support you've [TS]

  given along the way we absolutely [TS]

  wouldn't and couldn't be here doing [TS]

  these shows without your help here's to [TS]

  another great year [TS]

  this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

  ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

  the world of Apple and related [TS]

  technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

  so perfect that it can be complained [TS]

  about at least not by my co-host John [TS]

  siracusa you may know him from his [TS]

  writing at ARS technica and elsewhere [TS]

  I'm Dan Benjamin and thanks for [TS]

  listening this episode is sponsored by [TS]

  screens from IDO viacom screens let you [TS]

  access your Mac from anywhere using any [TS]

  iOS device it's a universal VNC client [TS]

  you can use multi-touch gestures [TS]

  shortcuts and more and you can even [TS]

  connect to Windows and Linux pcs which [TS]

  is John circuses favorite thing to do [TS]

  when he's out of the house it's VNC made [TS]

  simple and it only cost $19.99 check it [TS]

  out at at doe Viacom slash screens or on [TS]

  the iTunes App Store we'd also like to [TS]

  say thanks to campaign monitor email [TS]

  marketing software for designers [TS]

  developers and their clients you can [TS]

  design great-looking emails with your [TS]

  own tools track your email related [TS]

  conversions and sales and manager [TS]

  subscribers with ease and here's some [TS]

  news campaign monitor has just released [TS]

  a brand new API monthly pricing [TS]

  autoresponders and more and you can sign [TS]

  up today at campaign monitor calm and [TS]

  now that that those things are done I [TS]

  can say hello to my very best friend [TS]

  ever [TS]

  John circus nosey syracusa [TS]

  I don't dad doing good thanks for your [TS]

  help earlier in the week trying to [TS]

  figure out what was wrong with that [TS]

  drive should we talk about lack of help [TS]

  can what now you kind of helped can we [TS]

  can we talk about the drive you can I [TS]

  think it's an interesting story it's [TS]

  kind of a grayscale yeah oh yeah so I [TS]

  got a bata bought an older g5 from a [TS]

  friend of mine and had an older hard [TS]

  drive sitting around I wanted to use in [TS]

  this thing and I I i put the drive in [TS]

  and booted up the machine launch you [TS]

  know booted up the booted from the [TS]

  leopard installer and it saw the drive [TS]

  just fine but it wouldn't it wouldn't [TS]

  let me format it all of the options to [TS]

  format it were grayed out as if it was a [TS]

  cd-rom drive and so at first I googled [TS]

  and looked up you know reasons why this [TS]

  might be see if there's another way to [TS]

  do it that kind of thing but the reason [TS]

  why is I had used this drive in an [TS]

  external chassis too and I had used on [TS]

  Linux I had used the DD command to put [TS]

  an ubuntu install image on it and and of [TS]

  course when it does that it does it in [TS]

  the ISO nine six six zero format so it [TS]

  it thought the Mac OS 10 system saw it [TS]

  as as a cd-rom drive even though clearly [TS]

  it was a hard drive and it even showed [TS]

  the hard drive icon in Disk Utility and [TS]

  the Installer it it refused to let me [TS]

  format it it wouldn't even try because [TS]

  it saw it as this other it saw it as a [TS]

  cd-rom drive which of course is [TS]

  read-only the interesting that gave it [TS]

  the hard drive icon you would think that [TS]

  the operating system or that that [TS]

  program would make the decision about [TS]

  whether I can reformat this and whether [TS]

  it's a hard drive kind of it would be [TS]

  the same decision so you think it would [TS]

  either show the CD image not like you [TS]

  format right or the hard drive image and [TS]

  let you format yes weird yeah but it [TS]

  didn't and I have to try the same thing [TS]

  I want to connect it to a Snow Leopard [TS]

  machine to see if it has the same [TS]

  problem if not I guess I'm gonna have to [TS]

  go into Final Linux machine and and use [TS]

  that to change it or something well you [TS]

  know Michael Westen has DD command so [TS]

  you can just wipe the thing from the [TS]

  command line that way if you're really [TS]

  really really careful that's it [TS]

  have to do but yeah it just struck me as [TS]

  being so funny because here here's [TS]

  something that clearly it recognizes as [TS]

  a hard drive based on the icon but based [TS]

  on the file format it's thinking it's a [TS]

  cd-rom drive so kind of kind of an edge [TS]

  case but don't do that of all the story [TS]

  never use Linux right so what's up we [TS]

  have we have some follow up john from [TS]

  from last week amp as always we have [TS]

  follow up it but I made a decision on [TS]

  the follow up I've decided not to do any [TS]

  backup related follow-up this time [TS]

  because we just have so much backup [TS]

  related follow-up and I feel like the [TS]

  show is becoming the backup show right [TS]

  in John siracusa so I want to going to [TS]

  save that I'm gonna save the backup [TS]

  follow-up maybe will be for next episode [TS]

  maybe the episode after but there is a [TS]

  huge outpouring you'll outpouring of [TS]

  people who have things to add or ask or [TS]

  say about backups but skipping that for [TS]

  this episode yeah before right when we [TS]

  were starting people in the chat room [TS]

  we're saying hey I wonder if they'll [TS]

  talk about backups today no isn't that's [TS]

  just just to tell you that we're not [TS]

  going to talk about back right so we'll [TS]

  save it okay so I've got those notes for [TS]

  another episode okay but last episode we [TS]

  talked about a aside from backup stuff [TS]

  talk to about Mac OS 10 version to be [TS]

  determined Lian and we talked all about [TS]

  what Apple thought of that I got a [TS]

  little bit of follow up on the the lion [TS]

  stuff hopefully not a half an hour's [TS]

  worth so we can save room for the actual [TS]

  topic of today's show one thing that [TS]

  people brought up that I should have [TS]

  mentioned but totally didn't think about [TS]

  but I have thought about a lot in the [TS]

  past is the name of the operating system [TS]

  and you know that the big cat names [TS]

  really don't leak ahead of time for the [TS]

  most part we haven't known the big cat [TS]

  names of the various versions of Mac OS [TS]

  10 right until Apple says so and that [TS]

  always I guess people don't care but I [TS]

  always cared I thought is meaningless [TS]

  really but I always thought it was [TS]

  interesting and I really didn't think [TS]

  this time around that they would go with [TS]

  lion because you know you save line for [TS]

  the end wouldn't you because once you do [TS]

  the king of the jungle you know it's the [TS]

  biggest big cat or yeah you've got [TS]

  nowhere else to go right a lion you [TS]

  can't go back to like links or Ocelot or [TS]

  something so this one's clearly call [TS]

  Lyonne and that's kind of like a strong [TS]

  hint that this is either at the end of [TS]

  the line for cat branding possibly the [TS]

  end of the line for Mac os10 branding [TS]

  okay that's that's very interesting and [TS]

  you know you bring up a great point I [TS]

  remember thinking I don't I don't [TS]

  especially like the name lion for for [TS]

  this as much as some of the other cats [TS]

  that are out there because line it [TS]

  sounds like lying you know what I'm [TS]

  saying is a little things like that and [TS]

  so I was thinking the same thing I was [TS]

  thinking I want there has to be a reason [TS]

  why they would pick lion and and that [TS]

  that has to be the answer which is it [TS]

  though which is it is it that it's the [TS]

  end of end of the end of the line for OS [TS]

  10 or is it cat names are done why would [TS]

  they why would they go away from cat [TS]

  names when there's so many left the [TS]

  first thing I would say is that I think [TS]

  all of my all the things that I talked [TS]

  about in the last episode still stand in [TS]

  terms of what the product will be this [TS]

  is entirely about naming and branding is [TS]

  nothing about the content of the [TS]

  operating system so whether or not they [TS]

  go away from big cat branding or they go [TS]

  away from the Mac os10 branding I think [TS]

  the content of the next version of what [TS]

  is now known as Mac OS 10 will be the [TS]

  same I don't think that because they [TS]

  changed the name suddenly I would revise [TS]

  my guesses about the you know whether it [TS]

  will be more or less like iOS I think [TS]

  they're clearly going on that transition [TS]

  to make it more iOS like but the [TS]

  transition is not going to go any faster [TS]

  if they rename things it would P really [TS]

  be a positioning thing and just a [TS]

  branding thing and maybe it would help [TS]

  people feel more comfortable with it but [TS]

  I don't think it would help them [TS]

  overcome the technical challenges of [TS]

  slowly converting this operating system [TS]

  and its applications to be a more iOS [TS]

  like model so that's what bothers me [TS]

  about this naming stuff is that people [TS]

  get hot and bothered about it but I [TS]

  really think it is a side issue so with [TS]

  that without cheating can you name all [TS]

  of the versions by their code names [TS]

  starting with with 10.0 all the way up [TS]

  to ten not seven obviously and ten zero [TS]

  was cheetah ten one Puma ten two Jaguar [TS]

  ten three Panther ten four tiger ten [TS]

  five leopard ten six Snow Leopard and [TS]

  then whatever they're going to call this [TS]

  one lion they haven't really talked [TS]

  about a version a number as far as an [TS]

  however [TS]

  assumes it will be ten seven and I think [TS]

  that's a good bet too but I don't think [TS]

  they've actually talked about it maybe [TS]

  it's on their website I don't know I'm [TS]

  impressed do you know what the code name [TS]

  for the public beta was the code name [TS]

  for the public beta yeah geez [TS]

  that one I that's very time very [TS]

  important matter you did so well [TS]

  listing those laughs once you say it [TS]

  will probably be reminded of about it on [TS]

  Kodiak yeah yeah I would have [TS]

  that does sound very familiar we had to [TS]

  pay 30 bucks for that too yeah happy to [TS]

  do it but they did have wine names to it [TS]

  day before you'll get the bit in the [TS]

  beginning they were going to have wine [TS]

  names I don't remember what the wine [TS]

  names were but they were for a while [TS]

  there I think around the time of Jaguar [TS]

  though it was a rumor that the wine name [TS]

  was going around and the rumor was that [TS]

  they were going to be the official names [TS]

  but I guess that didn't get past [TS]

  marketing yeah it's only a retron survey [TS]

  or some other wine aficionado trying to [TS]

  make that stick and once it bounced up [TS]

  the mark and they're like yeah no we're [TS]

  not gonna do that so so what do you [TS]

  think this means though I mean does it [TS]

  doesn't mean the end of the big cat [TS]

  names here's what I think III think it [TS]

  will they will abandon cat names when [TS]

  they abandon when they abandoned the Mac [TS]

  os10 [TS]

  OS as a whole I don't you really think [TS]

  that they do a Mac OS 10 dot whatever [TS]

  eight and not do a cat name I think lion [TS]

  has to be the end of the cabinet as it [TS]

  just makes no sense to do another cat [TS]

  after lion unless now it makes no sense [TS]

  they're very impressive reading but [TS]

  reading that subtle hint from from Apple [TS]

  do you think anyone else has picked up [TS]

  on this yeah I've talked about it like [TS]

  crazy as soon as it was called ly even [TS]

  before it was called lion there were [TS]

  speculation is always speculation what [TS]

  does the big cat gain I'm going to be [TS]

  and someone always suggests lion and [TS]

  then everyone else says no they're [TS]

  saving that for the end that won't be [TS]

  until XYZ so so it's clearly it is the [TS]

  end and it's the end of big cat branding [TS]

  I would say pretty certainly and if [TS]

  they're going to get rid of big cat [TS]

  branding you they could just say well [TS]

  we're done with that silly thing where [TS]

  they were we put a cat in a fair we're [TS]

  just going to call it Mac os10 [TS]

  another option is they could just drop [TS]

  the Mac and just call it OS 10 so it [TS]

  sort of matches better with iOS I don't [TS]

  know remember when they did that for a [TS]

  brief period of time [TS]

  there was this tiny window where yeah [TS]

  they were trying to call the operating [TS]

  system that ran on the iPod Touch and [TS]

  iPhone OS 10 by itself without the Mac [TS]

  prefix yeah and then they changed their [TS]

  mind and decided to call it iOS because [TS]

  for a long time I was called iPhone OS [TS]

  running on devices that were an iPhone [TS]

  right that makes sense [TS]

  yeah where they called it we're gonna [TS]

  call it OS 10 which made a little bit [TS]

  more than key it's not Mac OS 10 its OS [TS]

  10 but then the final decision from [TS]

  marketing was apparently iOS which I [TS]

  don't know that doesn't get better it's [TS]

  not really very ie so so cute well [TS]

  here's here's the question then if if [TS]

  that's I Oh s do you think we would see [TS]

  X OS now because the I prefix is the [TS]

  whole iMac Apple's always done this Alex [TS]

  you're right because I don't want X OS I [TS]

  think it'd be horrible it would not say [TS]

  it as X that's always 10 I know I'm just [TS]

  asking you I think people ask me these [TS]

  questions all the time I'm just really [TS]

  but branding Apple's wacky with branding [TS]

  like they like simplicity our MacBook [TS]

  MacBook is a horrible brand people get [TS]

  used to it people used to anything [TS]

  that's not a measure of how good it is [TS]

  like Wii is a bad name but people get [TS]

  used to it and then it becomes fine but [TS]

  MacBook is not as good as power buck [TS]

  either probably used to that too [TS]

  I think I don't think Mac is going to go [TS]

  away because think it is still strong a [TS]

  strong brand they've kind of realized [TS]

  that by calling our Mac books Mac is a [TS]

  brand and I think they still believe in [TS]

  that brand [TS]

  called Mac iOS just who knows who the [TS]

  heck knows if this is really but the key [TS]

  part of this is entirely up to the [TS]

  marketing department and the people to [TS]

  make those decisions and it has nothing [TS]

  to do with the technical content of the [TS]

  operating system the engineering side [TS]

  worries about technical content and [TS]

  evolving the operating system and no [TS]

  matter what they do the marketing people [TS]

  are going to do with the marketing [TS]

  people are going to do and they're [TS]

  really two separate threads so here [TS]

  here's a question then what what would [TS]

  really be required for them to no longer [TS]

  call it or no longer think of it as OS [TS]

  10 I mean you know think back to the to [TS]

  the old days system 7 became 8 9 10 what [TS]

  what I mean obviously with 10 there was [TS]

  a huge huge change it was an all new [TS]

  operating system at least for Apple I [TS]

  mean we all know it came [TS]

  next but it was it was an essentially a [TS]

  completely new OS I don't know if the [TS]

  change from eight to nine would be [TS]

  considered a whole new OS but how do [TS]

  they you know the windows side of things [TS]

  you've got operating systems that that [TS]

  are all kind of Co related but every [TS]

  time they come out with a new thing they [TS]

  they call it something completely new [TS]

  they're not releasing you know although [TS]

  it might be you you might argue that it [TS]

  really is it's not Windows three and [TS]

  then four and then five and then six [TS]

  they always have these different names [TS]

  they're not the lineages are not obvious [TS]

  you're not suggesting they're going to [TS]

  do something like that you're saying the [TS]

  opposite you're saying it's still going [TS]

  to be the same OS that we love [TS]

  regardless of the name I'm saying naming [TS]

  and technology have almost no relation [TS]

  like remember we went from system seven [TS]

  point five point whatever to Mac OS 7.6 [TS]

  and there was you know there was this to [TS]

  change from seven point five to seven [TS]

  point six was no bigger than the change [TS]

  between any other seven versions really [TS]

  they changed the name of it they just [TS]

  change because I felt like it where as [TS]

  as you pointed out the change from Mac [TS]

  OS 9 to Mac OS 10 with the Roman numeral [TS]

  was like a hundred percent change yeah [TS]

  so really the naming has absolutely [TS]

  nothing to do with the amount the [TS]

  operating system changes and any [TS]

  discussion that starts from that premise [TS]

  or is based on that is just pointless [TS]

  discussion to have the names of the [TS]

  names and they're fun to talk about [TS]

  everything too but they really [TS]

  independent of the tech the next time [TS]

  there's a a tech jump like there was [TS]

  from nine to ten that's probably a good [TS]

  topic for another show as I have some [TS]

  theories about what that might be and [TS]

  possibly when it might come but that's [TS]

  and surely they will do a name change [TS]

  then but that's not doesn't have [TS]

  anything to do with the branding stuff [TS]

  Josh in the chat room asks what about [TS]

  Mac OS 10 server as a separate branded [TS]

  product yeah yeah there was they [TS]

  released Mac OS 10 server 1.0 which was [TS]

  basically rhapsody that really had no [TS]

  relation to the current Mac OS 10 except [TS]

  that both had next underpinnings and [TS]

  that was kind of a dead product and then [TS]

  they revived it and when they revived [TS]

  that it was Mac OS 10 server I think it [TS]

  was called 10-point Oh where they were [TS]

  trying to sync the versions up with the [TS]

  real Mac OS 10 but now that they've [TS]

  ditched the Xserve Mac OS 10 server [TS]

  like is not long for this world maybe [TS]

  they'll just keep having it limp along [TS]

  and become increasingly more like Mac [TS]

  os10 client it already is basically [TS]

  identical except for some parameters [TS]

  tweaked and tons of new bundled [TS]

  applications but I mean I wouldn't want [TS]

  to be in that group at Apple working on [TS]

  that stuff because that area of the [TS]

  business seems to just be atrophying [TS]

  well yeah and and and as you mentioned [TS]

  there are a handful of other utilities [TS]

  and tools but a lot of them were Xserve [TS]

  specific a lot of them were x-rayed [TS]

  specific I mean if you if you really [TS]

  there's nothing that would stop you from [TS]

  taking OS 10 as it stands today and [TS]

  using it as a server there's almost [TS]

  nothing that you really you don't really [TS]

  need those additional tools except if [TS]

  you're doing it in kind of a a workplace [TS]

  environment and you're using it for file [TS]

  serving and things like that if you're [TS]

  just thinking of it in terms of like [TS]

  serving a web server or database server [TS]

  a straightforward file server a lot of [TS]

  those things you don't even need so yeah [TS]

  I mean does it make sense for them to [TS]

  maintain OS 10 server for a little while [TS]

  I mean right now there's how people who [TS]

  put it on their Tower computers to help [TS]

  them you know serve they have shared [TS]

  home directories or something to help [TS]

  them serve a bunch of users and a video [TS]

  editing suite there are places for it [TS]

  and there are still places for the one [TS]

  or two little proprietary features that [TS]

  Apple is added because they have their [TS]

  own GUI for directory services that's on [TS]

  top of like LDAP and all that stuff but [TS]

  the other things are just open source [TS]

  stuff that they package and throw on [TS]

  there it's kind of a melange of Apple [TS]

  modified stuff custom Apple stuff [TS]

  complete open source stuff and you know [TS]

  it's it's a big mishmash that I guess [TS]

  the people who are using it want it to [TS]

  continue to be supported but for the [TS]

  rest of the world it is like let me get [TS]

  a Linux server and install the software [TS]

  I need to install on it and I'll be fine [TS]

  and like you said it has a control panel [TS]

  control panel and a neck serve and [TS]

  everything that's the only place where [TS]

  you absolutely positively need this [TS]

  offer because you can't get any of this [TS]

  cool xserve controlling gooeys from any [TS]

  other company but that's gone away now [TS]

  so yeah but that's another topic yeah [TS]

  but I got one well do you wanna do one [TS]

  more follow up yeah yeah yeah all right [TS]

  so [TS]

  actually two more follow-ups so on the [TS]

  line thing I mentioned that spaces look [TS]

  like they were completely gone and other [TS]

  people have pointed out that you can't [TS]

  really tell because just because they [TS]

  didn't demo spaces at all throwing their [TS]

  little October demo doesn't mean they're [TS]

  gone it just means they decide not to [TS]

  demo it but I mean they said Mission [TS]

  Control combines you know all these [TS]

  things including spaces into one unified [TS]

  interface but then they never ever [TS]

  showed spaces or at least what we think [TS]

  of as spaces and that led me to believe [TS]

  that they're just ditching entirely but [TS]

  that's my hunches for all I know it's [TS]

  still there and they just decided never [TS]

  to activate it [TS]

  I got impression that they were [TS]

  replacing it too though and I I don't [TS]

  know I'm on the fence about that I [TS]

  really did get the impression they were [TS]

  they were saying we're done with it they [TS]

  don't really demo spaces that much they [TS]

  demoed it when it was introduced but [TS]

  they hardly ever you know if any sort of [TS]

  demoed in store automatically running [TS]

  demo people demonstrating it they never [TS]

  show spaces so it could still be there [TS]

  and it's all in its existing buggy state [TS]

  but I have my doubts but let me write it [TS]

  wanted out rightly that we don't know [TS]

  for sure and it's just still speculation [TS]

  at this point because I don't think [TS]

  there's even been a dev build of Lion [TS]

  given out to anybody that I know of no [TS]

  and the final follow up all the way back [TS]

  to the first show was when we talked [TS]

  about TV there was this thing that I [TS]

  tweeted the other day about some I don't [TS]

  know what this company is but some [TS]

  companies some experiment where they [TS]

  tried to take regular people and have [TS]

  them replace their cable box yeah we [TS]

  just talked about that on on briefly [TS]

  awesome yeah they they is it something [TS]

  he'll yeah your holiday or no holiday [TS]

  something like that but yeah they they [TS]

  and these are regular people these [TS]

  weren't people like us these are regular [TS]

  human beings and then they like you know [TS]

  they did a study but they also videotape [TS]

  the people talking about it so you can [TS]

  follow the link in the show notes and [TS]

  watch the videos and see what the people [TS]

  had to say but the bottom line was that [TS]

  none of these boxes are ready to [TS]

  completely replace cable it's kind of an [TS]

  unfair comparison because these boxes [TS]

  are not sold as replacements they [TS]

  usually set sold is you know supplements [TS]

  to your existing watching but [TS]

  positioning them as replacements is [TS]

  saying here we're going to take away [TS]

  your cable really highlights all the [TS]

  flaws of these boxes of you know this [TS]

  not a lot of content available the [TS]

  expectations of television is that it [TS]

  doesn't crash and you don't have [TS]

  spinning weight cursors and those are [TS]

  all over these machines and some people [TS]

  were making the point that they don't [TS]

  want to be so [TS]

  actively involved in having to choose [TS]

  what they want they want programming to [TS]

  be broadcast at them which is kind of a [TS]

  novel concept for those of us in the [TS]

  TiVo generation who have already you [TS]

  know sort of taking control the [TS]

  television and it's not like we're [TS]

  sitting there racking our brains out to [TS]

  watch we set up recordings in season [TS]

  passes for the shows were interested in [TS]

  and whenever it's convenient for us we [TS]

  sit down and we have a bunch of content [TS]

  that we chose ready for us so that idea [TS]

  of sitting down in front of the box and [TS]

  flipping through channels [TS]

  first of all changing channels on any [TS]

  modern cable box is so incredibly [TS]

  painful and slow that I can imagine [TS]

  there are people who are actually [TS]

  flipping through channels do you [TS]

  remember doing that with like it may be [TS]

  the 80s and 90s television could change [TS]

  channels really fast in the advert in [TS]

  the remote you could change channels [TS]

  almost as fast usually hit the button [TS]

  yeah like the gag in Toy Story 2 about [TS]

  you know going around the horn if you go [TS]

  into react does not work anymore for [TS]

  kids who are growing up now they're like [TS]

  you can't change channels that fast [TS]

  because the stupid cable box takes 20 [TS]

  minutes to sync to the next you know [TS]

  yeah you don't even they're there that's [TS]

  the whole reason that the guide is so [TS]

  critical because you can't she can't [TS]

  change channels by flipping a button you [TS]

  would go nuts I mean like waiting [TS]

  especially when they're you know this [TS]

  channels in HD this channel is not and [TS]

  you're waiting for your TV to resync it [TS]

  isn't horrendously slow that's another [TS]

  example of a television thing that's [TS]

  gotten worse over time so flipping [TS]

  through channels is alien to me but some [TS]

  of these older people in the video we're [TS]

  saying they just want to sit down and [TS]

  flip through the 3 or 4 channels that [TS]

  they're interested in see what's on [TS]

  quote unquote winning it's a phenomenon [TS]

  that like I can't remember the last time [TS]

  in the last five or six years that I've [TS]

  sat down front of television said let me [TS]

  see what's on no I sit down and I expect [TS]

  programs that I recorded previously that [TS]

  I know I like to be ready and waiting [TS]

  for me and I just choose which one of [TS]

  them I want to watch yeah well I there [TS]

  are a lot of people who turn a TV on [TS]

  just to have the background noise or [TS]

  they're people who just you know they [TS]

  know there's a show on and they maybe [TS]

  they watch what's on it before it or [TS]

  after it but very much it's become a [TS]

  consumer-driven process of how we how we [TS]

  watch TV as opposed to a network driven [TS]

  process of what they showed to us well [TS]

  for some people anyway life is like I [TS]

  said you saw the people in this video [TS]

  and it was a it's a different world from [TS]

  you know my contemporaries or people in [TS]

  the circles that I travel in but it's [TS]

  clear the people like that are out there [TS]

  and it shows that these boxes have [TS]

  stalled no chance to penetrate the [TS]

  mainstream [TS]

  as a replacement or cable and even as a [TS]

  supplement it seems like it doesn't fit [TS]

  in with their pattern of walking [TS]

  television so these are the type of [TS]

  people you may just have to wait for [TS]

  them to die off before these boxes [TS]

  become pervasive yes so what are you [TS]

  what are your kids do do they have like [TS]

  a TiVo or do they have things that are [TS]

  that are theirs that they can watch or [TS]

  do they sit down and watch like you put [TS]

  on Nick jr. or something they just watch [TS]

  it [TS]

  they've never watched live TV and they [TS]

  never watch commercials either and my [TS]

  son is six now and he the only [TS]

  commercials he's seen as a two shows [TS]

  that he records have one commercial [TS]

  break in them and he knows how 30 [TS]

  seconds get past them so he just [TS]

  literally has literally never seen [TS]

  commercials at the age of six by the [TS]

  time I was six I'd probably seen you [TS]

  know whatever it is 20 million hours of [TS]

  career right right right [TS]

  interestingly the not seen commercials [TS]

  does not make him not want to beg for [TS]

  toys because well go to the toy store he [TS]

  sees the toys there and you don't eat [TS]

  ads to make toys tractive two three four [TS]

  five and six-year-old so maybe would be [TS]

  worse if you saw commercials but no [TS]

  maybe the first time a commercial came [TS]

  on he called me into the room when he [TS]

  was three or four and sits daddy there's [TS]

  something wrong with the TV night wire [TS]

  where's my show exactly what I didn't [TS]

  understand what this way you know it's [TS]

  over why is it over it's not only it's [TS]

  this commercial they get annoyed now [TS]

  like he watches some shows that release [TS]

  a new episode every week in a particular [TS]

  season and when he watched one episode [TS]

  he wants to watch another when I say [TS]

  hasn't aired yet and it I still struggle [TS]

  to explain that concept that you know [TS]

  they make the shows ahead time but they [TS]

  dole them out sort of one every week and [TS]

  then why can't you just show me the show [TS]

  like we haven't recorded to get its [TS]

  broadcast and then like it's his mental [TS]

  model does not match the actual model [TS]

  for television it matches mostly the [TS]

  TiVo model yeah it's funny because kids [TS]

  growing up now really won't ever have [TS]

  the same concept of TV that that we had [TS]

  and most of the people who are listening [TS]

  to this show probably had to which is [TS]

  very very fundamentally different uh you [TS]

  know we have all these shows and we [TS]

  actually went through this transition [TS]

  with our kid he's three being able to go [TS]

  from all of that we just got to be [TS]

  honest we just kind of got fed up with [TS]

  him saying I wouldn't I want to watch [TS]

  this one oh but I don't I don't just [TS]

  want Dinosaur Train you know I want the [TS]

  one where they [TS]

  I'm the Triceratops you know or it [TS]

  became this specific you know what we're [TS]

  putting on a Nick jr. and whatever's on [TS]

  that's what we're watching for the next [TS]

  half hour while we eat lunch or whatever [TS]

  it is you know well while we try to take [TS]

  the trash out and do all these other [TS]

  things around the house you're gonna get [TS]

  to watch a show for 30 minutes and it's [TS]

  whatever's on and he there was this [TS]

  transition because for for so long [TS]

  we kind of doled out to him oh well we [TS]

  only want him to watch so much TV so [TS]

  we'll give him this show in this show [TS]

  because he seems to like him and we had [TS]

  to sort of transition it to this is [TS]

  what's on and we don't control what's on [TS]

  you know the end and that was his shift [TS]

  his mindset change was TV is happening [TS]

  and we don't always control it so I like [TS]

  it so my kids still request specific [TS]

  episodes that makes it was nothing [TS]

  interesting Evo is it for us do you have [TS]

  a description of a show the one where [TS]

  the mean dog says X Y Z and then you've [TS]

  got to look through the show [TS]

  descriptions to find it but at a certain [TS]

  point you get good at finding them I'm [TS]

  also using it as a way to teach my kids [TS]

  to read because you'll make them read [TS]

  the titles and descriptions of the [TS]

  show's themselves in the menu but it's [TS]

  interesting going through all this when [TS]

  they have sort of they can pick any [TS]

  episode of any of their shows they want [TS]

  to watch it anytime both of them pretty [TS]

  quickly arrived upon the random play via [TS]

  Daddy technique whether to say just just [TS]

  pick any one dad and so I pick a random [TS]

  episode and that's what they get to [TS]

  watch or their choices now are random [TS]

  play by dad the latest episode which [TS]

  they do understand the concept of that [TS]

  is the one at the top of the list it's [TS]

  the newest one even if it happens to be [TS]

  a repeat ah and then a specific [TS]

  description of you know show me the one [TS]

  with this or my daughter who's 3 her [TS]

  description is I don't want the one with [TS]

  the bugs and I don't want the one with [TS]

  you know something else and then you [TS]

  pick any from over there so I don't mind [TS]

  as long as and and my kids only [TS]

  basically watch PBS - so no ads every [TS]

  show has some educational content with [TS]

  the exception of Clone Wars which the [TS]

  chatroom is talking about and yes my son [TS]

  is addicted to that as well maybe we [TS]

  will do a star wars episode eventually [TS]

  but I don't want this to turn into the [TS]

  talk show so I mean see alright show [TS]

  topic today is actual show topic you [TS]

  pick this one as usual yeah before you [TS]

  forced me to pick them I would rather [TS]

  you just pick them but you know I like [TS]

  for you to pick them [TS]

  because I'm the one who's writing the [TS]

  topics and if I pick them I feel like [TS]

  there has to be Chinese ball I write [TS]

  down the topics and you pick them it [TS]

  adds a little bit of dynamic you know I [TS]

  don't know I just feel like if I picked [TS]

  them I'll always pick the ones that are [TS]

  most interesting to me and perhaps not [TS]

  the most interesting to the listener so [TS]

  you add a second you're so considerate [TS]

  I try so today is a is iOS versus the [TS]

  world yeah love that iOS versus the [TS]

  world yeah and the short description of [TS]

  this was what Apple need huh we just [TS]

  lost John hold on because that was who's [TS]

  just getting on did what happen [TS]

  what happened I'm back yes I had a [TS]

  little software malfunction okay so say [TS]

  that again cuz I was I was in the edge [TS]

  of my seat alright so iOS versus the [TS]

  world is what Apple needs to do to [TS]

  achieve iPod like success with iOS [TS]

  devices and some would argue they [TS]

  already have well I in my definition of [TS]

  that phrase I'm saying iPod loss like [TS]

  success is just complete dominance so if [TS]

  you have a digital music player you know [TS]

  anyone has a digital music player it's [TS]

  an iPod yeah you it's pretty good guess [TS]

  it's just like if you know anybody who [TS]

  has a computer you know across the [TS]

  entire world you can say it's a Windows [TS]

  PC yeah I mean among our friends yes [TS]

  it's always going to be Mac's or [TS]

  whatever but doesn't matter like iPod is [TS]

  like Windows it's not like just among [TS]

  you know geek nerds who travel the exact [TS]

  same tech circles as you do you can [TS]

  guess what it's not anybody pick any [TS]

  random human in the United States or in [TS]

  the first world right and say he has a [TS]

  digital use a music player guess what it [TS]

  is [TS]

  you guys I applaud your right 70% of the [TS]

  time just like you guess windows whoo [TS]

  right 90% of the time or whatever their [TS]

  percentages are um and so I wrote about [TS]

  this [TS]

  when was that back in the summer thrust [TS]

  of the article was something slightly [TS]

  different but this was in the core of [TS]

  the article the article was called can [TS]

  you buy me now which was my play on [TS]

  Verizon's can you hear me now thing and [TS]

  it was about why Apple needs to go to [TS]

  Verizon and why they have to do it soon [TS]

  right [TS]

  looks like they listened to you well [TS]

  yeah then listen to me that's [TS]

  interesting though speaking of Apple [TS]

  going to Verizon I remember and whenever [TS]

  they whenever they had WDC and they [TS]

  announced the [TS]

  yeah I guess it was the iPhone 4 in June [TS]

  of this year was that the announcement [TS]

  then was June June or July but anyway [TS]

  during the summer when they had WotC and [TS]

  everyone was talking about Verizon as [TS]

  they always do before any type of thing [TS]

  as soon as they came on stage and did [TS]

  their presentation about the iPhone I [TS]

  just knew January 2011 Verizon iPhone [TS]

  like people were talking about it coming [TS]

  earlier and they didn't know when the [TS]

  contract was gonna be up and they didn't [TS]

  know what was going to be but as soon as [TS]

  they did that whole presentation on a [TS]

  new iPhone didn't mention Verizon once [TS]

  and had this brand-new hardware and this [TS]

  new OS and everything it was clear to me [TS]

  that this is not happening until at [TS]

  least 2011 but they want to do it as [TS]

  soon as they can so that's one of the [TS]

  times I had the clearest premonition [TS]

  about when based on nothing really just [TS]

  gut instinct based on lend Verizon [TS]

  iPhone for coming to turned out to be [TS]

  right not that I could do anything with [TS]

  that information but that was just a fun [TS]

  coincidence but anyway this article was [TS]

  about why they need to get on Verizon as [TS]

  soon as possible and it was talking [TS]

  about how everyone likes to apply the [TS]

  Windows PC [TS]

  template on top of any sort of tech [TS]

  debate used to be they would they would [TS]

  apply the the Betamax [TS]

  yeah VHS beta maybe just things that [TS]

  they applied the VHS Betamax analogy to [TS]

  PCs but now now this day and age people [TS]

  apply the PC analogy and the PC analogy [TS]

  is you know Macintosh came along and it [TS]

  was arguably a better product but window [TS]

  license Micron's window is far and wide [TS]

  and everybody got on board that train [TS]

  and Apple was marginalized in Windows [TS]

  came to dominate and so that's the [TS]

  template that they try to shoehorn every [TS]

  single thing into it and then right if [TS]

  you were to update that analogy it fits [TS]

  pretty well you can say you know today [TS]

  Google is Microsoft they're their [TS]

  licensing their operating system for and [TS]

  what I do know Android is their Windows [TS]

  right so you can operating system [TS]

  everybody can have they sell it to hard [TS]

  drive they sell it they give it away [TS]

  actually to hardware makers and an iOS [TS]

  is the Macintosh operating system and [TS]

  Apple Apple is Apple in both analogies [TS]

  which I think is interesting it's like [TS]

  the one player that has not changed in [TS]

  you know two generations of tech battles [TS]

  and the whole article talks about why [TS]

  these why do the difference why this [TS]

  template doesn't really hold um [TS]

  I'll go through a couple the reasons why [TS]

  it doesn't hold briefly can read the [TS]

  article if you want to but uh for [TS]

  pricing Windows PCs were always weight [TS]

  cheaper than Mac's still are arguably [TS]

  didn't you know knock-knock the not [TS]

  equivalent machines but you can get into [TS]

  a PC for Less yeah and it wasn't at [TS]

  various points it wasn't like five bucks [TS]

  cheaper it was like hundreds of dollars [TS]

  you know it's something that in the [TS]

  mid-90s it was you know double the price [TS]

  sometimes for similarly powerful [TS]

  computers and that is simply not the [TS]

  case with iOS based devices the iPhone [TS]

  cost about the same amount as any other [TS]

  phone does any other comparable [TS]

  smartphone and the main thing is that [TS]

  the the majority of the cost of phones [TS]

  is not in the phone themselves just in [TS]

  the contract Apple doesn't even control [TS]

  that price right and that's more or less [TS]

  the same for everybody so that's a big [TS]

  difference um in this case Apple got the [TS]

  critical mass pretty fast with the iOS [TS]

  App Store and everything they never [TS]

  liked the hip higher iOS market share no [TS]

  matter how you measure it then they ever [TS]

  did for the Mac even in the Mac's heyday [TS]

  I think the Mac barely got above 10% and [TS]

  like it's best time and you know apples [TS]

  got 16% or something of a smartphone [TS]

  market now and in terms of the App Store [TS]

  in terms of number of applications and [TS]

  downloads Apple never had this kind of [TS]

  dominance with Mac apps there were never [TS]

  you know 10 times 20 times as many Mac [TS]

  apps as window apps right so Apple did [TS]

  really get out ahead here um one of the [TS]

  big things that people and talk about [TS]

  much is that people not shop based on [TS]

  spec anymore like they did in the PC [TS]

  world there's always like how many [TS]

  megahertz how many megabytes how big is [TS]

  the hard drive how big is the screen how [TS]

  many colors you know they would shop [TS]

  based on those criteria and that's why a [TS]

  book couldn't be in a price because [TS]

  their machines were always more [TS]

  expensive for a similar specs that said [TS]

  a different software on them right [TS]

  people didn't really factor in the [TS]

  Socceroos a software is free right but [TS]

  now people might shop like that like [TS]

  people don't even know the specs of [TS]

  their phones they just know it's an [TS]

  extent that they care at all about the [TS]

  hardware over the phone they just know [TS]

  like does it feel fast yeah that's it [TS]

  they don't they don't care an apple I [TS]

  think it you can you have to credit them [TS]

  for that because they've never really [TS]

  talked about the specs of the iPhone [TS]

  yeah they stop talking about the specs [TS]

  of their Macs in fact they don't want to [TS]

  talk about that they don't want it they [TS]

  know that is not their strength and they [TS]

  learned [TS]

  PC you know Wars like we're never gonna [TS]

  win on that so just to talk about it if [TS]

  they could not tell you how fast the CPU [TS]

  was in your max they would if they could [TS]

  not tell you how much RAM they had they [TS]

  would like they just don't want it they [TS]

  don't want to talk about that at all and [TS]

  and thing is people especially with [TS]

  phones people barely even care if it [TS]

  feels fast they mostly shop based on [TS]

  like whim branding and advertising [TS]

  campaign what their friends have [TS]

  availability of applications but people [TS]

  can put up with pretty crappy interfaces [TS]

  and not complain so we all appreciate [TS]

  the iOS is awesome because it's [TS]

  responsive but I would be cautious about [TS]

  assigning too much value to that in the [TS]

  wider market because the bottom line is [TS]

  most people do not care as much as we do [TS]

  you can say they subconsciously notice [TS]

  and it does make a difference but it's [TS]

  not the deal breaker like it is with us [TS]

  like we want to make many sacrifices to [TS]

  keep a good interface whereas most other [TS]

  people will trade that away much faster [TS]

  than we will for some other advantage [TS]

  that they consider significant and [TS]

  fashion has a lot to do with phones [TS]

  people buy phones because they're cute [TS]

  because they have a cool case because [TS]

  you know there's a Hello Kitty stamped [TS]

  on the back whatever much more so than [TS]

  laptops and certainly more so than PCs [TS]

  even though Apple tried to do that with [TS]

  the candy IMAX and everything and people [TS]

  did buy them because they were cute [TS]

  fashion is much more relevant to things [TS]

  that you hold with things especially [TS]

  something to use like as much as a phone [TS]

  and the final thing that's different is [TS]

  one hardware maker versus many hardware [TS]

  makers like in the PC Mac Wars it was [TS]

  Apple versus an entire industry was [TS]

  Apple versus Compaq Dell and a million [TS]

  Asian suppliers and Gateway and just [TS]

  there was tons and tons of companies and [TS]

  then on the Apple side that was just [TS]

  Apple and one company can't compete with [TS]

  that kind of diversity so there's people [TS]

  making pcs for point-of-sale peeking [TS]

  leaking and for use in factories right [TS]

  waterproof ones that you can use [TS]

  underwater you know one shape like a [TS]

  shoe with televisions built-in ones with [TS]

  stereos but it just it was and those [TS]

  companies would go out of business [TS]

  because no one wanted those things well [TS]

  they would it was a million companies [TS]

  all trying every possible thing and the [TS]

  ones that stuck kind of survived and [TS]

  there was eventually consolidation and [TS]

  so on and so forth but during the growth [TS]

  period it was tough for Apple to keep up [TS]

  even when Apple had like 8 bazillion [TS]

  performers that we couldn't keep track [TS]

  of and they were trying to sound through [TS]

  Sears and everything they still didn't [TS]

  have as many products as pcs you could [TS]

  get the exact PC that you wanted if you [TS]

  couldn't get you could [TS]

  that not that many people did that but [TS]

  it was tough for Apple to compete in [TS]

  that thing but in the sort of modern era [TS]

  when they did the iPod they had a [TS]

  similar scenario Apple II only company [TS]

  that makes iPods Apple and millions of [TS]

  companies made digital music players you [TS]

  know hundreds of no-name [TS]

  you know Asian knockoff things and what [TS]

  was it like I don't remember all of them [TS]

  Rio or the other ones Samsung made hope [TS]

  you know made a whole bunch it really [TS]

  was Apple versus tons of other companies [TS]

  but Apple showed that if all those other [TS]

  things are different all the other [TS]

  things that I talked about are not the [TS]

  same that just the one hardware hardware [TS]

  maker versus many hardware maker issue [TS]

  is not enough to you know automatically [TS]

  make it so that you can't win so they [TS]

  covered the needs of pretty much an [TS]

  entire market with just one company's [TS]

  product line with three or four products [TS]

  start out with one iPod then there was [TS]

  two then they replace them inning with [TS]

  the Nano then they threw the shuffle in [TS]

  the mix now you've got the touch but it [TS]

  still may be one two three four models [TS]

  and they covered you know 70 80 percent [TS]

  of everybody's needs people are not [TS]

  skipping an iPod because oh well I want [TS]

  one that has this much memory but has [TS]

  this form factor but as a screen but [TS]

  that has you know that's what people [TS]

  will do with PCs they would say well I [TS]

  like the Mac but I really want one has [TS]

  two slots but I want two hard drive bays [TS]

  but I want the second hard drive bay to [TS]

  be five and a quarter but I mean nobody [TS]

  does that with you know you could do [TS]

  that with iPod you could say well the [TS]

  current nano stinks because doesn't have [TS]

  physical buttons I don't like a [TS]

  touchscreen so I have no other options [TS]

  that's right you don't have your options [TS]

  right don't shop like that it helps it [TS]

  there you know an order of magnitude [TS]

  less expensive than a PC but people [TS]

  literally used to you know shop for mac [TS]

  fund find that they couldn't get exactly [TS]

  the specs that they wanted and decide [TS]

  that well you know I have no other [TS]

  options I'm going to go for a PC because [TS]

  I have a whole world of choices but that [TS]

  doesn't happen in the in the modern era [TS]

  when specs don't count that much so you [TS]

  know this almost harkens back to the the [TS]

  major shift that Apple has made recently [TS]

  and I say recently meaning last few [TS]

  years you know calling it the year of [TS]

  the laptop the year of the portable [TS]

  computer they have so de-emphasized Mac [TS]

  Pro's that it it it's not like they [TS]

  don't admit to making them anymore but [TS]

  these things are way in the background [TS]

  you know these things are way way off to [TS]

  the side as well you know the special [TS]

  people who want those we we keep them [TS]

  over here and when those people come to [TS]

  town we'd say of course you can have one [TS]

  of these things but they're not out [TS]

  there selling them and marketing them [TS]

  it's all you know laptops and IMAX now I [TS]

  mean that's really where the their [TS]

  emphasis is and it should be I mean [TS]

  those are the machines that are that are [TS]

  the best and and that they have the best [TS]

  luck and success with but it's like [TS]

  that's example the customers leading [TS]

  Apple tonight right I think you're right [TS]

  at a certain point this is kind of like [TS]

  audio at a certain point the technology [TS]

  advances to where it's covering the [TS]

  average person's need it [TS]

  technologically speaking so in audios [TS]

  cases like when does audio get good [TS]

  enough that the average person thinks [TS]

  it's good enough and unfortunately for [TS]

  audiophiles [TS]

  and people like me that happened without [TS]

  you know 256 kilobits compressed mp3s [TS]

  for most people it's good enough right [TS]

  visual fidelity I think we're still [TS]

  getting there especially since visual is [TS]

  you know 2d and everything instead of [TS]

  real 3d like we see in real life so a [TS]

  visual fidelity may take much longer the [TS]

  current video is not quite good enough [TS]

  to most people say that well this is [TS]

  this is close enough to the limits of [TS]

  human visual perception that I think I'm [TS]

  fine with that people still see you know [TS]

  difference between HD and SD people see [TS]

  the difference between 3d and regular [TS]

  even though the 3d is crappy and [TS]

  ridiculous they see a difference with [TS]

  audio we've reached the point of [TS]

  diminishing returns now the customer is [TS]

  also recognized in the PC space that at [TS]

  a certain point this little laptop does [TS]

  everything I needed to do I don't need a [TS]

  machine the size of a refrigerator that [TS]

  makes horrible noise because thousands [TS]

  of dollars and it took a while people to [TS]

  get out of the habit of buying those [TS]

  things eventually people said you know [TS]

  once you get your first laptop you go [TS]

  you know what for what I do with the [TS]

  computer this laptop does everything I [TS]

  need and look how much smaller it is I [TS]

  can carry it around and you're just [TS]

  never going to buy desktop again after [TS]

  that so computing has reached the [TS]

  computing networking has reached the [TS]

  point where you can fill most people's [TS]

  needs with a much smaller simpler [TS]

  machine I think it'll keep going in that [TS]

  direction maybe all of us have you know [TS]

  SuperDuper iPads with larger screens [TS]

  that are on whatever is derived from Mac [TS]

  OS 10 in the future but once customers [TS]

  started doing that and the sales started [TS]

  shifting Apple loved it like great we [TS]

  hate how selling these gigantic things [TS]

  love to sell you more of these small [TS]

  devices especially since we've become [TS]

  such such an expert company building [TS]

  these things with the iPod you know we [TS]

  want everything to be completely spec [TS]

  lists sealed units that you don't have [TS]

  to worry about the internals of that we [TS]

  make huge margins out and then we sell [TS]

  you so that was a that transition is [TS]

  ongoing and so getting back the article [TS]

  I ended the article with the my call to [TS]

  say you know Apple needs to get on more [TS]

  carriers because the one thing the final [TS]

  thing is different between the sort of [TS]

  iOS Wars and the desktop PC Wars was the [TS]

  distribution was not really an issue in [TS]

  the old in the old days with Mac PC if [TS]

  you wanted to Mac you could get it [TS]

  almost anywhere there are resellers on [TS]

  every corner you could buy Macs and [TS]

  Sears you can buy them a copy USA you [TS]

  know you could the distribution wasn't a [TS]

  problem retail was everywhere retail [TS]

  margins were similar everywhere everyone [TS]

  could get to the customers but with you [TS]

  know the cell phone market that is not [TS]

  the case that the carrier's control [TS]

  whether you can get the customers [TS]

  because there's no coverage in an area [TS]

  where somebody lives or bad coverage you [TS]

  just can't sell to them period and you [TS]

  have to get on some carrier you can't [TS]

  sell a cell phone at all Apple does not [TS]

  have a cell network so they are the [TS]

  gatekeepers and it seemed like at the [TS]

  time I wrote this that Android was [TS]

  coming up big because people just wander [TS]

  into what they considered the cell phone [TS]

  store which is like a kiosk at a mall or [TS]

  wherever they bought their last cell [TS]

  phone or you know whatever they consider [TS]

  the cell phone store and they turn in [TS]

  their old phone and they say oh I want [TS]

  to get a new one what have you got they [TS]

  look around and they pick the best phone [TS]

  to see in the store and if Apple stone [TS]

  is not in that store they're not going [TS]

  to get it if it's a Verizon store apple [TS]

  stone is not in it and so they were [TS]

  losing you know a huge number of [TS]

  customers simply because they weren't [TS]

  even in the game you know Apple does [TS]

  have its retail store which is a big [TS]

  advantage but people don't go to the [TS]

  Apple store to buy phones not people who [TS]

  are not specifically interested in the [TS]

  iPhone you know once they're [TS]

  specifically interested in the iPhone [TS]

  you've got them already anyway but the [TS]

  majority people are just going into the [TS]

  phone store turning in their old phone [TS]

  for the best new phone and Apple needed [TS]

  to get in front of those people and you [TS]

  know now they are on Verizon and we saw [TS]

  the sales numbers uh yeah I mean they [TS]

  are the sales these sales statistics not [TS]

  numbers they just said how big they are [TS]

  they didn't say quantity right and they [TS]

  said that that it was the biggest I've [TS]

  the biggest iPhone so the biggest phones [TS]

  mail that they sold faster than inactive [TS]

  ever they ever offered in and so I don't [TS]

  know what those numbers are they sold [TS]

  down in I think twelve hours yeah I was [TS]

  twelve I was like - it's like two hours [TS]

  or something from the time for my 3:00 [TS]

  a.m. to 5:00 it really yeah something I [TS]

  read this morning said from 3:00 a.m. to [TS]

  5:00 a.m. in that two hour window [TS]

  Verizon sold out all of its pre-orders [TS]

  for the iPhone that's even that's even [TS]

  faster than I had heard wow this and the [TS]

  thing is that's interesting from like a [TS]

  sensational point of view but I that's [TS]

  not what I was talking about I'm talking [TS]

  about after the people who don't even [TS]

  know that you know these people are [TS]

  going to buy their iPhones and get them [TS]

  early just like you did but a few weeks [TS]

  from now when the ads that are running [TS]

  in television finally start to penetrate [TS]

  the mainstream and someone goes to [TS]

  replace their phone you go hey you know [TS]

  I'm going to get a new cell phone they [TS]

  go to the cell phone store and they go [TS]

  there and it's a horizon store and they [TS]

  see that there's an iPhone they're like [TS]

  I can get an iPhone on my verizon [TS]

  contract and the salesperson says you [TS]

  certainly can that's that's where the [TS]

  big market is it's not these guys who [TS]

  were dying to get a Verizon iPhone but [TS]

  those are all you know Mac iPhone nerds [TS]

  already you've already got people maybe [TS]

  they were like you and suffering under [TS]

  the yoke of bet ATT coverage and can now [TS]

  finally go back to the herd but that's [TS]

  not the mass market the mass market of [TS]

  the people we're just going to wander [TS]

  the store see an iPhone and it's going [TS]

  to win because it's better let me let me [TS]

  read this to you it says it says that at [TS]

  8:10 p.m. [TS]

  Verizon ceased online orders the iPhone [TS]

  to existing customers and the most [TS]

  successful first day sales of the [TS]

  history in the history of the company [TS]

  this is an exciting day sedan me DS [TS]

  president chief executive officer for [TS]

  them in in just our first two hours we'd [TS]

  already sold more phones than any [TS]

  first-day launch in our history and when [TS]

  you consider these initial orders were [TS]

  placed between the hours of 3:00 a.m. [TS]

  and 5:00 a.m. it is an incredible [TS]

  success story it is gratifying to know [TS]

  that our customers responded so [TS]

  enthusiastically to this exclusive offer [TS]

  designed to reward them for their [TS]

  loyalty that's pent-up demand and that's [TS]

  not an explosive bubble and also had [TS]

  probably has to do with a lot about [TS]

  supply constraint because iPhone 4 has [TS]

  been supply constrained for seven months [TS]

  and there's no reason to believe that [TS]

  the CDMA iPhone 4 is not also going to [TS]

  be supply constraint for a long time [TS]

  yeah I'm sure Apple wishes [TS]

  wasn't the case but it is they can't [TS]

  make them fast enough so let me ask you [TS]

  this if if I wanted to buy an iPhone 4 [TS]

  on 18 t today do you think I would be [TS]

  successful I could go to an Apple store [TS]

  and buy one let's just say I have no [TS]

  cell phone no plans nothing to worry [TS]

  about I just want to go buy an iPhone [TS]

  today you have to think that by now [TS]

  finally the gsm iphone 4 should not be [TS]

  supply constraint simply because of the [TS]

  rise an iphone thing is siphoning off [TS]

  customers and they've had 7 months to [TS]

  ramp up on on the gsm iphone 4 you never [TS]

  know I guess because like remember the [TS]

  we that we was supply constrained for [TS]

  like a year and a half or something [TS]

  ridiculous like that and it's not like [TS]

  these companies don't know how to [TS]

  manufacture lots of items it's just at a [TS]

  certain point you you know it's like one [TS]

  diode or one thing that you can't get in [TS]

  enough quantity and that holds up your [TS]

  entire line when you're when you're [TS]

  selling things in these kind of [TS]

  quantities it's very difficult to make [TS]

  them as fast as people want to buy them [TS]

  ah but I have to think that the 18 T [TS]

  iPhone is not going next time there's an [TS]

  earnings conference call and they talk [TS]

  to them and they say is is the iPhone 4 [TS]

  still comply supply constrained on 18 T [TS]

  they have to say no I can't imagine it's [TS]

  going to be if it is supply constrain [TS]

  then Apple's stock is going to go up [TS]

  another 50 bucks because that means [TS]

  people are just buying iPhones like [TS]

  crazy yeah I think the CMA iPhone is [TS]

  going to be supply constrained for a [TS]

  long time just because it's a brand new [TS]

  product even though it looks the same on [TS]

  the outside they're all new internals [TS]

  and there's this big bubble of demand [TS]

  and this is national advertising [TS]

  campaign so expect that to be tough to [TS]

  get for a while and and it's going to [TS]

  limit their sales it's going to limit [TS]

  how many applicants sell up which is [TS]

  kind of a shame from a learning [TS]

  standpoint but they'll get over it [TS]

  eventually if anything you know the [TS]

  light at the end of tunnel is that the [TS]

  iPhone 4 could be supply constrained for [TS]

  its entire life and then the iPhone 5 [TS]

  comes out this summer and finally you [TS]

  can get some iPhone 4s like they're 99 [TS]

  bucks at Walmart right exactly [TS]

  it'll be a little bit perverse so that [TS]

  was that was the article about you know [TS]

  what I think I always needs to do to [TS]

  achieve iPod like success and the the [TS]

  two main thrusts are get on more [TS]

  carriers alright check box you know that [TS]

  would basically get on more calories [TS]

  meant to get on Verizon in the u.s. [TS]

  because almost every other country had [TS]

  multiple carries already [TS]

  u.s. is a huge market it was clear that [TS]

  they were number [TS]

  and I was trying to explain why it's so [TS]

  important for them to get on Verizon [TS]

  ASAP before Android comes and eats the [TS]

  rest of their lunch and the other thing [TS]

  was to try to express that I think it is [TS]

  possible for a single vendor with a [TS]

  limited product line to come to dominate [TS]

  a market because Apple did it with the [TS]

  iPod and there's no reason they can't do [TS]

  the same thing with the iPhone now that [TS]

  would mean they would have to diversify [TS]

  their hardware just like they did with [TS]

  the iPod I don't remember how long they [TS]

  had just one iPod but it was a pretty [TS]

  long period of time I mean for a long [TS]

  time I was Mac only and then there was [TS]

  on Windows and then finally they [TS]

  introduced the mini and that kind of led [TS]

  to an explosion even though the mini was [TS]

  like less value for your money because [TS]

  occasion five times less storage for 50 [TS]

  bucks less money or whatever it was and [TS]

  people you know didn't think that was [TS]

  great but I think Apple will eventually [TS]

  need to diversify its hardware line they [TS]

  kind of have two iPhones now because [TS]

  they would take the previous model and [TS]

  make that the $99 thing so you kind of [TS]

  have the good iPhone that everyone wants [TS]

  and then the cruddy one then the kardi [TS]

  one is just last year's model mm-hmm I [TS]

  think they would benefit from [TS]

  diversifying even further going to to [TS]

  current model phones and then like you [TS]

  know one previous model phone or [TS]

  something and I'm not sure now is the [TS]

  time to do that I'm certainly not saying [TS]

  that they have to make a phone with a [TS]

  physical keyboard or go crazy like that [TS]

  but they could do like an iPhone nano or [TS]

  a decon sented iPhone that you know [TS]

  strip out some of the more expensive [TS]

  stuff instead of having a really nice 5 [TS]

  megapixel camera put a credit camera in [TS]

  there and make the phone free with the [TS]

  contract or something you know I don't [TS]

  know if they're at that point yet but [TS]

  downward price pressure I think will [TS]

  eventually maybe a year or two from now [TS]

  so you wait a minute or two you two [TS]

  years from now you'll walk into the [TS]

  character of your choice and it will be [TS]

  a penny phone I think they have to feel [TS]

  the model like that eventually we're in [TS]

  the early stages of smartphones [TS]

  kind of like the early stages of the PC [TS]

  market where everything was fancy do you [TS]

  remember in the early years of the Mac [TS]

  every Mac that Apple introduced was [TS]

  better than all of its previous Macs in [TS]

  every possible way [TS]

  yeah like the Mac plus there's nothing [TS]

  worse about the Mac plus in the Mac 128 [TS]

  right or the Mac 512 nothing worse about [TS]

  that than the 128 and the plus the SC [TS]

  was better than the plus the 128 that [TS]

  you know the 512 in every possible way [TS]

  that it could be better no spec was not [TS]

  better [TS]

  right that was what it was like in the [TS]

  beginning of a market you just do one [TS]

  upmanship and better and better [TS]

  eventually Apple had to diversify the [TS]

  line editor introduced a computer that [TS]

  was not as good as one of its [TS]

  pre-existing computers hmm and you know [TS]

  once you start down that path nail it's [TS]

  just the status quo obviously the [TS]

  MacBook is not as good as a previous [TS]

  model Mac what produce do it all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  smartphones will reach that point as [TS]

  well smartphones will get to the point [TS]

  where it will run apps if I run iOS and [TS]

  everything but it's not as good as the [TS]

  previous top-of-the-line iPhone 7 or [TS]

  whatever and I think that's key to ever [TS]

  achieving market dominance like the iPod [TS]

  did because the iPod yeah but show the [TS]

  one vendor could do it we need more than [TS]

  one model if Apple had stuck with the [TS]

  iPod Classic they wouldn't have been [TS]

  able to dominate the market the way they [TS]

  do you need you need to feel some sort [TS]

  of diversified team so that people feel [TS]

  like oh I've got enough choice just like [TS]

  car companies if you're a Ford family [TS]

  for life Ford makes enough cars that [TS]

  they can sell you a truck a minivan a [TS]

  sedan a sporty car they've got a [TS]

  diversified line they don't have every [TS]

  car in the entire world but they have [TS]

  something to fill every kind of need I [TS]

  think Apple will need to do that [TS]

  eventually um but the underlying thing [TS]

  the reason this topic came up or the [TS]

  connection to this topic to your recent [TS]

  shows is that on a talk show this week [TS]

  you're talking about a Gruber's [TS]

  obsession with market share yeah it's [TS]

  all he's always writing I'm sick I'm [TS]

  sick and tired of it really hey [TS]

  I mentioned Gruber and market share at [TS]

  the end of this article as well [TS]

  I mentioned that he's one of the phrases [TS]

  that I quoted remember I think was you [TS]

  can't cash checks with market share and [TS]

  the big difference in profit share and [TS]

  market share and you mentioned on the [TS]

  show that the thing where he's talked [TS]

  about Marcus is just a convenient way to [TS]

  keep score yeah [TS]

  who's winning listen yeah and it's sort [TS]

  of an underlying that the the line item [TS]

  I have for this is psychoanalyzing group [TS]

  is obsession with market share and it [TS]

  really applies to me as well be cycle [TS]

  analyzing my own obsession with market [TS]

  share and just everybody's of my [TS]

  generation and I'm going to try to wrap [TS]

  this up quickly because we're almost [TS]

  over time but I'm going to do an [TS]

  immediate godwyn of this you know [TS]

  Godwin's law what is Godwin's law [TS]

  Cobbins law is named after some guy [TS]

  whose last name I believe is Godwin is [TS]

  that in any debate online if it goes on [TS]

  long enough someone will make some [TS]

  not zero Hitler and Hitler reference [TS]

  it's just it's inevitable and that the I [TS]

  think is a corollary to order is that [TS]

  once someone does that the discussion is [TS]

  over a rational discourse can no longer [TS]

  happen from that point it actually reads [TS]

  as an online discussion grows longer the [TS]

  probability of a comparison involving [TS]

  Nazis or Hitler approaches one yeah [TS]

  that's the Wikipedia page right and I [TS]

  think then the main thing and most [TS]

  people think of when they say that now [TS]

  is that that means it's the end of the [TS]

  discussion that means you immediate loss [TS]

  to discuss anything rational again is [TS]

  hyperbole yeah whoever the other way [TS]

  I've heard it said is whoever mentions [TS]

  the Nazis loses exactly so I'm going I'm [TS]

  going to immediately God God when the [TS]

  psychoanalyzing thing but then I'm gonna [TS]

  try to pull it back so yes I am here hey [TS]

  so I'm going to say that your group is [TS]

  obsession with market chair and mine [TS]

  obsession with market share is very [TS]

  similar to something from my childhood [TS]

  done after you talked oh is Marco [TS]

  Marco's wife or they grew up in Long [TS]

  Island I don't know if you know but I [TS]

  grew up in Long Island and you said you [TS]

  hadn't heard a Long Island accent in a [TS]

  long time you're kind of hearing one for [TS]

  me I don't know it's not very strong I [TS]

  mean I knew I I just knew years as sort [TS]

  of northeastern and I didn't I don't [TS]

  think I'll of me I don't have the Jersey [TS]

  Shore Long Island accent most of the [TS]

  people in Jersey Shore actually from [TS]

  Long Island but there's a little [TS]

  accident there but any but growing up an [TS]

  eye on a lot or perhaps most of my [TS]

  friends were Jewish and I would go over [TS]

  their houses and you know talk to their [TS]

  parents and grandparents and many of [TS]

  them I don't know how many maybe all of [TS]

  them any of them had grandparents living [TS]

  with them the big thing with the [TS]

  grandparents of my Jewish friends was [TS]

  that they wouldn't ride in German cars [TS]

  Oh my grandparents were so upset at me [TS]

  that we had a Volkswagen oh my god they [TS]

  literally almost spit on the ground [TS]

  right it's just it's just an old [TS]

  something it's not like I won't buy and [TS]

  with them since I was on Long Island and [TS]

  my friends were Jewish a lot of them are [TS]

  well-to-do it was about like Mercedes [TS]

  right you know not only when they not [TS]

  buy her Mercedes or they wouldn't ride [TS]

  in one so if you had one you came to [TS]

  pick them up the grandparents were like [TS]

  I will not ride in that car right and [TS]

  these people you know their families had [TS]

  money they were they living the American [TS]

  dream they were successful right they [TS]

  could buy nice expensive cars but and [TS]

  most of the nice expensive cars for [TS]

  German but they would refuse to buy them [TS]

  my grandparents exactly the same way [TS]

  and the thing is [TS]

  actually speaking you said look the [TS]

  people who designed and built these cars [TS]

  probably weren't born until r2 is over [TS]

  right [TS]

  these they're these are not the Nazi [TS]

  Germany's are your our friend now the [TS]

  Nazis are gone these cars are not made [TS]

  by Nazis you are not benefiting Nazis or [TS]

  anything like that by buying let alone [TS]

  riding in these cars this doesn't seem [TS]

  like a rational choice and they're [TS]

  they're essentially sacrificing their [TS]

  comfort and you know their ability to [TS]

  have a nice car based on this you know [TS]

  attitude they have towards this ah my [TS]

  something I tweeted about recently is [TS]

  why I was in front of my mind this is [TS]

  very similar to my decision not to have [TS]

  an Xbox Xbox is a game console made by [TS]

  Microsoft right well think it's better [TS]

  than the PlayStation in many possible [TS]

  ways and I agree that it actually is far [TS]

  for the same reason my Jewish friends [TS]

  grandparents wouldn't write a German car [TS]

  I won't have an Xbox on my ass right and [TS]

  this all right the the analogy here is [TS]

  isn't that well this feeling that I have [TS]

  is the same way about Microsoft as if [TS]

  you only other people have but Nazis now [TS]

  the analogy is not that the Microsoft [TS]

  the Microsoft are Nazis like I owned by [TS]

  Microsoft products therefore Microsoft [TS]

  equals Nazis now the analogy is about [TS]

  the irrationality of the choice is not [TS]

  the context it's this idea of making a [TS]

  choice that's is hurting yourself for [TS]

  irrational reasons based on past events [TS]

  that's the analogy the analogy is not [TS]

  Microsoft or Nazis all right so I hope [TS]

  you can understand this this psychology [TS]

  without trying to bring the Nazis into [TS]

  it it's it's about a rational choice [TS]

  about biting off your nose to spite your [TS]

  face based on some past experience now [TS]

  it gets get you now a past experience [TS]

  that was horrific Microsoft was not [TS]

  horrific Nazis are a lot falls apart [TS]

  I've just got one the entire [TS]

  conversation but this is what popped [TS]

  into my mind I think I hope we can all [TS]

  keep level heads about this and move on [TS]

  from from the analogy but the reason it [TS]

  comes up in this context is because that [TS]

  struggle of Mac versus PC Apple versus [TS]

  Microsoft [TS]

  sort of defines the the adolescence and [TS]

  Technik technological blossoming of [TS]

  people of my generation your generation [TS]

  and Gruber's generation who were into [TS]

  this type of stuff right it underlies [TS]

  everything and the way we think about [TS]

  everything and even if we're smart [TS]

  enough like in that whole article [TS]

  say it's not the same deal with iOS as [TS]

  it was with Mac PC even if we're smart [TS]

  enough to realize that the Germans who [TS]

  built this car were not even born when [TS]

  we're work until world war two was over [TS]

  right it still it still informs our [TS]

  thinking at a subconscious emotional [TS]

  level so the reason Gruber and I and [TS]

  other people are so obsessed with market [TS]

  share is because we live through a [TS]

  situation where the better party didn't [TS]

  win we felt like and we were [TS]

  disappointed by it and we want to make [TS]

  sure that that doesn't happen again [TS]

  this one one more layer back before I [TS]

  bounce all the way back up [TS]

  the reason Windows versus Mac was so [TS]

  upsetting is because geeks in general [TS]

  like meritocracy in order and they want [TS]

  the best thing to win and in general [TS]

  tech geeks or especially Mac eeks didn't [TS]

  think Windows was the better product [TS]

  they think it won for reasons that [TS]

  didn't seem fair for the same way that [TS]

  the jocks were more popular for reasons [TS]

  it didn't seem fair to the Nerds right [TS]

  there they weren't interesting or smart [TS]

  or whatever they just play one game [TS]

  better sports or whatever they were [TS]

  taller better-looking it didn't seem [TS]

  fair wasn't a meritocracy according to [TS]

  the merits that we decided well windows [TS]

  went ran won the contest for reasons we [TS]

  didn't think we're fair and our team the [TS]

  Mac lost and we thought it was just [TS]

  terrible and the same thing for like [TS]

  Amiga users or B users or Atari people [TS]

  or whatever but there's many more Mac [TS]

  users who worse or for similar reasons [TS]

  it's a really good analogy with the [TS]

  persecution the Nerds feel like in high [TS]

  school right the same persecution that [TS]

  those same nerds felt about their [TS]

  favorite computer at the hands of [TS]

  Windows Windows didn't seem like it [TS]

  should win and we hate something that [TS]

  shouldn't win winning because doesn't [TS]

  deserve to and so that situation of [TS]

  saying you know something that we didn't [TS]

  think should win did it was so upsetting [TS]

  to us that now now we want any battle [TS]

  between the product that we enjoy and a [TS]

  product that we don't think is worthy we [TS]

  want to win it decisively just like [TS]

  Windows wanted decisively in our youth [TS]

  and the way you do that is is to do a [TS]

  Windows dip which is to get massive [TS]

  market share to say Windows had 90% [TS]

  market share all my friends had Windows [TS]

  computers ran Windows period for a first [TS]

  approximation therefore for the product [TS]

  I like to win now that's what we must do [TS]

  we must get market share and group is [TS]

  obsession with it is his rational mind [TS]

  in my obsession is a rational mind [TS]

  trying to reconcile [TS]

  with the fact that perhaps that's not [TS]

  the case now hmm maybe you don't need [TS]

  market share but and you know group post [TS]

  about all the time well Apple doesn't [TS]

  have market share but look how much [TS]

  profit share they have them they're just [TS]

  they're selling more phones and they're [TS]

  making all the money in the industry [TS]

  just trying to you know it's like this [TS]

  is trying to convince himself that that [TS]

  we are winning but that nagging thing at [TS]

  the back of his mind that makes him keep [TS]

  coming back to that well is that but [TS]

  we're not winning in the way that [TS]

  Windows won and so maybe there's still [TS]

  the possibility that we keep defeated in [TS]

  that way and we must prevent that that [TS]

  thing that little you know Marlon man [TS]

  lizard brain thing in the back your mind [TS]

  is just nagging and making us go back to [TS]

  the well of market share and keep [TS]

  looking at it keep trying to convince [TS]

  ourselves it's okay we don't have market [TS]

  share we're not in danger we could still [TS]

  win yeah but how can you really win [TS]

  unless every single person you know has [TS]

  an iPhone unless it's like Windows how [TS]

  could how can that be winning remember [TS]

  what it was like with Windows don't we [TS]

  deserve that victory and that's also [TS]

  what makes Mac fans keep going that you [TS]

  know let's count the iPad as a PC does [TS]

  that help us there's still time to win [TS]

  race or like we have this great thing if [TS]

  we can throw the iPad into the PC comm [TS]

  maybe we can go back and read it you [TS]

  know right up Wars yeah still have a [TS]

  shot at that one it's not over you know [TS]

  and sometimes they want to come out the [TS]

  iPad as a PC and a phone because they [TS]

  can use it to help the phone war right [TS]

  yeah that's our Saint Canada's both you [TS]

  know right because then you could then [TS]

  go back and win the Wars of the past and [TS]

  win this new war I think it's just [TS]

  fascinating this I think most people who [TS]

  think about this a lot understand that [TS]

  this is the case but it's a fascinating [TS]

  struggle between our rational minds and [TS]

  and you know just all sorts of issues [TS]

  tied up in our own adolescents and and [TS]

  the desktop PC Wars and deciding what [TS]

  victory looks like and I think it's [TS]

  unique to people of our age and of our [TS]

  particular inclination most other people [TS]

  don't care one way or the other that's [TS]

  my attempt to explain the the obsession [TS]

  with market share and I really don't [TS]

  think it's going to go away and even [TS]

  within myself I have trouble really [TS]

  truly in my heart of hearts believing [TS]

  that iOS can win unless it gets you know [TS]

  dominant iPod like market share so what [TS]

  happen [TS]

  if it doesn't win ah if it doesn't win I [TS]

  don't think it's that bad that's the [TS]

  other thing that you'll see in a lot of [TS]

  these stories is the like the bargaining [TS]

  stage well you know even if we only get [TS]

  ten or 50% look at the Mac the Mac said [TS]

  10 and 15% and we're pretty much happy [TS]

  with our Mac's right I mean really they [TS]

  don't seem to be going away again right [TS]

  but we're still sore that we lost but [TS]

  it's the you know I'll take the [TS]

  consolation price consolation prizes the [TS]

  company doesn't go out of business we [TS]

  still get to use the computers we want [TS]

  it's certainly better than if Apple had [TS]

  gone under [TS]

  gone under [TS]

  I've been bought by Sun or some other [TS]

  horrific you know real failure brain so [TS]

  we'll take that as a consolation prize [TS]

  and that's what you tell yourself when [TS]

  you think it's just not going to happen [TS]

  when you think just apples apples not [TS]

  going to be able to do it [TS]

  I think the iPod is really an optimistic [TS]

  story the iPod proves that they can do [TS]

  it that it's possible that all the [TS]

  pieces are there Apple can get it done [TS]

  if they make the right moves at the [TS]

  right times and a lot of moves they are [TS]

  making are good the same sign of things [TS]

  to do with the iPod the the reason [TS]

  pricing is not an issue anymore is [TS]

  because apples been really strong with [TS]

  that with the big buys on flash ahead of [TS]

  time and everything and cornering the [TS]

  market on certain components yeah [TS]

  Apple's margins are huge and they're [TS]

  parts prices are low and with the phones [TS]

  that runs on the same CPU more or less [TS]

  they're buying the same parts from [TS]

  Qualcomm and Broadcom and all these [TS]

  other companies that make the the radios [TS]

  in them we're all buying the same flash [TS]

  screens from different vendors it's a [TS]

  level playing field Nygaard regard and [TS]

  Apple is doing really well in that area [TS]

  so in a lot of ways they are kind of [TS]

  following the same iPod path but it's [TS]

  but you know the iPod never had an [TS]

  Android like competitor who is competent [TS]

  and extremely well-funded and you know [TS]

  giving Apple more of a runt Rhodes money [TS]

  than any iPod competitor ever did it [TS]

  would have been interesting if at Google [TS]

  was powerful at the time of the iPods [TS]

  you know ascent to the throne see if [TS]

  they would have fielded a competitive [TS]

  and b3 player that synced with Google [TS]

  wirelessly or something that that would [TS]

  have been interesting to see if the Ames [TS]

  Ames hi Google this point is kind of [TS]

  doing the Microsoft thing where they [TS]

  they'll just want to be in every [TS]

  business you're like the way to ask them [TS]

  to make money let's get them maybe they [TS]

  would have thought there was no way from [TS]

  the big money with portable and B 3 [TS]

  players but we'll see it's only 8 [TS]

  minutes over not bad well I mean we [TS]

  started 5 minutes late yeah so really [TS]

  we're only two two and a half minutes [TS]

  over yeah this this whole issue I feel [TS]

  like is underlying every discussion on [TS]

  you know on the talk show and really [TS]

  analyze it everything about market share [TS]

  because it's it's all it's all a bunch [TS]

  of guys who are all in our 30s who lived [TS]

  through the Mac PC Wars and I think all [TS]

  of us are struggling with this this [TS]

  feeling inside when we discuss this [TS]

  issue [TS]

  it's the subtext of everything that gets [TS]

  written about it [TS]

  that's it though that's it for this show [TS]

  I feel like it is I mean you get we [TS]

  gotta end at some point a little bit of [TS]

  ranting but that's not bad no this is [TS]

  great this is I feel like we're finally [TS]

  starting to get comfortable you know [TS]

  what I mean like you're finally starting [TS]

  to loosen up a little I was uptight on [TS]

  the first three rows you think well [TS]

  especially the first one but you're you [TS]

  know you this is the kind of rant I [TS]

  expected from you all along now I'm [TS]

  going to be disappointed if it doesn't [TS]

  happen if we go through a show where you [TS]

  don't have a little bit of a tirade on [TS]

  I'm going to think it was not a [TS]

  successful show and there goes there [TS]

  goes your mic right there right on cue [TS]

  right on schedule [TS]

  we'll end it say goodbye are you replug [TS]

  in how's that better yeah and it's fixed [TS]

  all done [TS]

  good bye everybody thanks so thanks for [TS]

  tuning in appreciate you being here [TS]

  great topic it's a problem with the [TS]

  Ranchos is now you've got a lot more [TS]

  editing star for you or your editor no [TS]

  no we're don't edit any I keep it all [TS]

  but did you did you order your t-shirts [TS]

  you don't have to I'll send you one did [TS]

  not order t-shirts oh I will eventually [TS]

  if you had not sent me t-shirts and if [TS]

  you never get around this anyway no [TS]

  teachers I will probably eventually buy [TS]

  one because I have a clothes only [TS]

  there's only a week left [TS]

  we're only keeping it open for a couple [TS]

  weeks so if you guys are listening you [TS]

  haven't gotten your t-shirts yet you go [TS]

  to store it on 5x5 TV and you get a [TS]

  t-shirt for another week before we shut [TS]

  it down today you have to do a limited [TS]

  run thing yeah so yeah so check that out [TS]

  thanks everybody for tuning in we also [TS]

  want to say thanks to our sponsors at [TS]

  doe Viacom campaign monitor comm and [TS]

  also thanks to MailChimp comm who's been [TS]

  paying for our bandwidth this month so [TS]

  that you guys can download all in these [TS]

  episodes so thank you to to all of them [TS]

  John have a good one we'll be back next [TS]

  week and Friday at noon right that's [TS]

  right maybe we'll talk about backups all [TS]

  right all right very good take it take [TS]

  care have a good one [TS]

  you [TS]