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Roderick on the Line

Ep. 242: "Mr. Jingle-Jangle"

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0:00:13super train

0:00:15[Music]

0:00:19hello hi John hi moon how's it going Oh

0:00:25super duper might tell you something at

0:00:30the outset oh yeah lets your have an

0:00:32important public service announcement

0:00:34for you this never happens yeah so if I

0:00:37edited the show I would cut this out but

0:00:38five or so days ago my mac started

0:00:45suddenly dying like as in it was the

0:00:48equivalent of like basically if you just

0:00:50pulled out the plug did we stop oh wow

0:00:54yeah there's winches us as we say in the

0:00:56woke Twitter community it's problematic

0:00:59does that a bug or a feature yeah sure

0:01:02yeah well here's the thing long story

0:01:05short i'm pretty sure it's probably the

0:01:06power supply for a variety of reasons

0:01:09including that it takes about five days

0:01:11to get an appointment to drop your mac

0:01:12off to be looked at i've been doing lots

0:01:13of uh like crazy monkey stuff trying to

0:01:17like figure if i can troubleshoot it

0:01:19myself I think I've ice you know it's

0:01:22this is real medieval stuff basically

0:01:24I've tried unplugging everything I've

0:01:26reset everything I've done many many

0:01:28things and it appears so far that your

0:01:32computer guy well I used to be sure it

0:01:34appears that if I don't as long as i

0:01:36don't use a certain keyboard it stays up

0:01:39for at least 36 hours ok i just i here's

0:01:42the thing i love our relationship I

0:01:45think it's a strong relationship but if

0:01:46for some reason i suddenly stop talking

0:01:48and go hey it might be because the imac

0:01:52one day I have will nap I understand

0:01:54maybe get sleepy get sleepy you know

0:01:56yeah does well I had it better for over

0:01:58a year it's been pretty tired I have a

0:02:03couple of questions hmm yes you there is

0:02:06a technical question well a couple I

0:02:08mean for question number one when I

0:02:11first met you you had a lot of computers

0:02:14yeah yeah had a computer over here you

0:02:16had a computer over there yet a computer

0:02:18here you had one under the desk a talk

0:02:20to Arab mm-hmm right um how many

0:02:23computers are you like are when you say

0:02:26my computer you down to a computer

0:02:28that's a very it's a very very good

0:02:30question yeah you met

0:02:32at a time when I had I believe when we

0:02:36first started hanging out when we had

0:02:37our important last weekend where you me

0:02:40and Sean made the long winters website

0:02:41it was I had my desktop Mac which I

0:02:46think at that point was still my big

0:02:47blue and white g through Yosemite I had

0:02:50a windows pc on a plank that i was using

0:02:53to do cold fusion development and I

0:02:56probably was yes I was definitely still

0:02:58using my powerbook from the late

0:03:00nineties it wasn't their computer

0:03:02running in the background doing SETI

0:03:03Research mm-hmm Oh yet still looking

0:03:05yeah I think thing is when you and I

0:03:09first met when we we ah that does you

0:03:16know you can you can cut this out now

0:03:18but I think your main computer was a pc

0:03:23and you had just recently purchased an

0:03:25apple that you were experimenting what

0:03:27that is an impression that is very

0:03:30understandable um uh no actually i've

0:03:34been using a mac since 1987 it's how i

0:03:37learned how to use a computer and my

0:03:40first job be job and I you know I

0:03:43eventually got a mac in college and one

0:03:47of the lower end mak sae with me drives

0:03:50learn on a apple 2e no no I hated

0:03:54computers hey did computers I somewhat

0:03:57famously in the mythology dropped music

0:03:59theory when I was a senior and moved him

0:04:01to stage man to play guitar I hated it I

0:04:03didn't understand basic I thought it was

0:04:05stupid but no I'm the the thing was I

0:04:08had even I had my total amount of time

0:04:10until about two thousand one my total

0:04:14amount of time ever on a on a PC would

0:04:17probably be less than two hours ever Wow

0:04:20but there this long stories a boring

0:04:21story but basically there's this

0:04:23development environment that was much

0:04:24easier to do on a pc so my boss gave me

0:04:26a janky ass five year old pc to do this

0:04:28on oh icic but you know what the thing

0:04:30here's the thing that's really changed

0:04:32is you used to really have to have a

0:04:34computer because that's where your stuff

0:04:36lived and you know it's it was where

0:04:41that everything you think of book you're

0:04:42obviously your files and your

0:04:43applications you know if you wanted to

0:04:45have another copy of word on another

0:04:47computer you bought another copy of word

0:04:49and you move around the floppy disk or

0:04:51eventually network drives but no i mean

0:04:54like we make jokes about the cloud but

0:04:56like honestly it's it's amazing how much

0:04:58stuff i can do on any device and there's

0:05:00and that's actually I think I think we

0:05:03kid but I think that stuff that actually

0:05:05has gotten on Apple's and has gotten a

0:05:07lot better hmm the dying imac it's

0:05:09probably my fault i'm probably using it

0:05:11wrong but i holding it wrong okay now

0:05:14here's another question yes about your

0:05:16hygiene computer hygiene do you just

0:05:18leave it on all the time if you turn it

0:05:20off I do there was a time when it was

0:05:23believed there's so many things there

0:05:25just based on you ever heard this an

0:05:27ulcer I heard from John Syracuse you

0:05:28ever heard the old story about cutting

0:05:30the ends off the roast um the story goes

0:05:35the story goes that that someone in the

0:05:38house is preparing a roast and we've got

0:05:40the ends off the roast the story already

0:05:42don't cut the ends off the roadway cut

0:05:44the ends off the roast and and and then

0:05:46the other person the younger person that

0:05:48perhaps the child says you know hey why

0:05:50do you cut the ends off the rose and say

0:05:52I cut the ends off the rest because my

0:05:54mom cut the ends off the roast and you

0:05:56go it says its ends the roast all the

0:05:58way down until you eventually discover

0:06:00the original roast cutter did it because

0:06:02he only had a small pan and would make

0:06:04it Oh Sees not a good story see that's a

0:06:08good story good story there's all kinds

0:06:10of cutting the ends off the rest things

0:06:12the computer users have done for years

0:06:13that don't even really make that says I

0:06:15mean how many times have you been

0:06:16somewhere and you see people in line if

0:06:19they're not playing a facebook game or

0:06:20something they're they're quitting apps

0:06:21like you don't need to quit apps on your

0:06:23phone but people think that's a thing

0:06:24you should do you have to do that you

0:06:26don't have to do that um got a pan you

0:06:29got a pan big enough to hold the roast

0:06:30okay yes the pan the pan has says has

0:06:32gotten bigger and so one of that one of

0:06:34the pieces of conventional wisdom back

0:06:35in my day was you should turn off the

0:06:36computer at night it saves energy it

0:06:39increases the lifetime of the computer

0:06:41and then of course you get as we call in

0:06:42the business it turns out where people

0:06:44say no actually it takes more energy and

0:06:46we're on the computer to restart and I

0:06:47don't know if any of it was true but

0:06:49they're so energy efficient today and

0:06:52they do so much in the background that

0:06:54I think it you know just paisa leave

0:06:56them on yeah well I mean you know what

0:06:58did they say that it it ends up using

0:07:01more energy to to wash your hands and it

0:07:05does just to cure meningitis oh my

0:07:07goodness is that it's that recent

0:07:09scholarship John yeah I think it is I

0:07:11had no idea Jimenez is a big problem it

0:07:14really is and it comes from not watching

0:07:15your hands oh my goodness i I've gone

0:07:17through a whole renaissance of washing

0:07:19my hands again I'm back on the hand

0:07:20washing oh good good good no I never

0:07:22left it I really ok I see I feel like

0:07:25this is something where you peg people

0:07:26as OCD but like once you've had a kid

0:07:28and like in our case we were so freaked

0:07:30out we had several autumn if you

0:07:32remember we had several hand sanitizer

0:07:33stationed around the house for when

0:07:35people would arrive but you know I can I

0:07:38feel like this is anecdotal this might

0:07:39be cutting the ends off the roast but my

0:07:41kid went to a preschool we're washing

0:07:43hands was part of everything that they

0:07:44do always were washing hands and she got

0:07:46a lot fewer colds now today you go on a

0:07:49field trip the kids have been touching

0:07:51trees and railings like monsters and

0:07:53they just shove a sandwich in there

0:07:54gaping mom Oh God you know you get that

0:07:56we get that Dutch elm disease from that

0:07:58is that what happens is that yeah which

0:08:00is worse is that or meningitis is worse

0:08:02you touch a tree okay you just say you

0:08:04cram a sandwich into your mouth with

0:08:06your tree gummy hands you get Dutch elm

0:08:08disease right away I think that's way

0:08:10worse than it sounds terrible or like

0:08:12that zombie ant thing where do you get a

0:08:14tree beetle infestation Oh are there are

0:08:18instances that you can think of in your

0:08:20own life that you have cut the ends off

0:08:22the roast oh yeah yeah yeah there's tons

0:08:26of stuff in technology and there's just

0:08:28tons of stuff like you know I guess the

0:08:31word would be superstition that's too

0:08:33strong a word but it's something we're

0:08:34like there's this thing we do okay how

0:08:36about this do you do well you probably

0:08:39do this with your truck but warming the

0:08:41car up it used to be more sure do it get

0:08:45the bane of everyone in my family

0:08:48because we get out of the truck room

0:08:49I'll turn it up sit there for 18 minutes

0:08:53and everyone's like let's go right well

0:08:57and you figure you here in our language

0:09:00today like you say well I take the car

0:09:01in for a tune-up well you probably don't

0:09:03need to take your car you do but like

0:09:05you don't need to take most cars in for

0:09:07a tune up because there's

0:09:07thing to tune up in the conventional

0:09:09sense right that's right we often do you

0:09:12say like so like you want to show you

0:09:13ever do you still say like I'm gonna

0:09:14take that show no cuz you know tape

0:09:18things I don't take things but or like

0:09:20you know you you might say you're going

0:09:22to tape something when you're shooting a

0:09:23video on your phone some people still

0:09:25say i'm working on a record yeah how

0:09:30many grams of vinyl I loved your new

0:09:33record yeah you know I heard like one

0:09:35track on a email yeah in in music all

0:09:41the time I mean I catch myself doing

0:09:44things patterns that I learned in the

0:09:48very earliest days of picking up the

0:09:50guitar the little boxes and shapes that

0:09:53I learned that I should have unlearned a

0:09:57thousand years ago I sent it I sent an

0:09:59email the other day I'm sorry a text I

0:10:02started a text thread that included Ted

0:10:06Leo aimee mann jonathan coulton a couple

0:10:10other guitar playing ding-a-lings and I

0:10:13said Jimbo's a couple of these people

0:10:16and I said how do you fret how do you

0:10:18Fred a G chord how do you make a G chord

0:10:21hmm so open G just an open G chord in

0:10:25some senses the simplest chord open Jean

0:10:29my favorite cord and of the seven people

0:10:32on the thread I got back seven answers

0:10:34what Oh different and it started a huge

0:10:37argument between between all these

0:10:41accomplished guitar players who have

0:10:42been playing guitar for 30 years in most

0:10:45cases and they're all like you play a G

0:10:47chord like that that's done that's the

0:10:49you know me and the décor where I play

0:10:51it backwards cheetor it seems like a

0:10:53non-controversial chord where the main

0:10:56thing is do you include the extra BCD do

0:10:59you include the extra d on the B string

0:11:02that that was one of the things one of

0:11:04the major bones of contention I think

0:11:08you you you do don't you I do as a as a

0:11:11diddle but i don't i don't now like I

0:11:15think Ted plays the D in the G every

0:11:19time

0:11:19Oh interesting I said I woulda guessed

0:11:21he does I would see him doing more like

0:11:24a power cord well yeah except peas

0:11:27theatre PG in the deion en a string he's

0:11:30mr. jingle jangle yeah it's true now i

0:11:32guess but uh like I always play the the

0:11:37low G I always prep the E string on the

0:11:40G in my c cords oh I know I learned that

0:11:43from you and I never looked back yeah

0:11:44I've never played this changes

0:11:45everything but uh but so G chord rhett

0:11:50and the reason I asked it the reason I

0:11:52sent it out there was I was I was

0:11:53playing my g as I do and I and I became

0:11:59self-conscious about it because it's

0:12:01like the I Fred it the ultimate sort of

0:12:04cowboy like day one of your guitar

0:12:09lessons way just the basic gist kind of

0:12:13don g chord yeah and it and it felt

0:12:17unsophisticated to me all of us but it's

0:12:19so pure it was just like it's on an

0:12:21acoustic guitar so many open strings

0:12:23it's us a perfect chord yeah but it just

0:12:26felt like herpaderp so I so I asked all

0:12:28my friends I was like what do you guys

0:12:29do and you know like Jonathan Coulton

0:12:33has this whole this whole philosophy of

0:12:37a G store over G chord that I'm the way

0:12:42he frets it involves like muting strings

0:12:46with the with the fat part of his

0:12:48fingers and and he keeps himself like he

0:12:52keeps the cord wide open so he can do

0:12:54all these little Jackson Browne tweeny

0:12:57twang at ease with his other features

0:12:59like surfing he likes to fogelberg it up

0:13:00yeah he's he's fronting it basically

0:13:03with his pinky on the top and his thumb

0:13:05on the bottom I don't remember how he

0:13:06did it but I will she do the

0:13:07reach-around yeah it was very

0:13:09contrasting and everybody was like

0:13:11cushaw but he had that smug you know

0:13:14yale music degree kind of say John

0:13:17typical typical Yeah right right now so

0:13:21anyways all by way of saying when I sit

0:13:23down at the piano or when I sit at the

0:13:25guitar which you don't actually sit and

0:13:28we can yeah you can get where those

0:13:29fruity little stools and put your foot

0:13:30up in the air it was the guy that who's

0:13:32the

0:13:33blond guy about our age that played

0:13:34guitar like flipped up uh-huh or like

0:13:39how did he play it he he was like in the

0:13:4180s kind of like a bluesy rock guy

0:13:44blanket r-jefferson blunt guitar it

0:13:47wasn't black tar Jeffers and it might

0:13:49have been might have been a blind willie

0:13:51stewpot uh-huh right right right or he

0:13:54might be a blind blind Jimmy bindle pack

0:13:57he's yet bindle packs he's from the long

0:14:00line of bendel packs the facebook

0:14:03investors the twins the patch tool

0:14:08there's still millionaires I don't feel

0:14:10sorry for them they're all about the

0:14:11Bitcoin now is that right mmm wait a

0:14:14minute do you own a Bitcoin uh I don't

0:14:16know hmm what does it talk about these

0:14:20things oh icici it's a cryptocurrency

0:14:21isn't it one of those things like my dad

0:14:24used to get paid in in like a Aleutian

0:14:27art and and like you was get it's like

0:14:30it's a fur Confederate script if it's

0:14:33like the barter instead of giving you

0:14:35kicking people pay you and bake gonna

0:14:37have a Confederate scrip but I'm telling

0:14:39you buddy it's looking like a not make a

0:14:40comeback Jefferson Davis and so so any

0:14:45support all these things that were like

0:14:48some guy wrote out on a piece of

0:14:50notebook paper like here's the blues

0:14:52scale then I went home and I was like I

0:14:54own a Marilyn a blues scale and I still

0:14:57fucking play at every single day the

0:15:00exact I never learned anything else

0:15:01everybody's got a funny compulsive thing

0:15:03that they do you know my compulsive

0:15:05thing with little hammer on see you know

0:15:07the little walk up that's so good they i

0:15:09know i love the little walk that's when

0:15:11i'm playing my little guitar ukulele

0:15:11which is the main guitar that i play

0:15:13when i'm just sitting around thinking

0:15:14i'll do that or i'll do the basic box

0:15:17where you slide from them i'll do an a

0:15:19pentatonic where you do like a slide

0:15:21from GA do do do do do and I'll do that

0:15:24little bend over the fifth no compulsive

0:15:27thing you know everything everybody's

0:15:29got this they've got those little like

0:15:31yeah compulsive things I just recently

0:15:33started arranging my dishwasher in a new

0:15:36configuration than this is a huge this

0:15:38is a big deal it's a big deal i don't i

0:15:40don't like it but we all know what did

0:15:44come out of a reason or you just felt

0:15:45like you needed a change yeah I just I

0:15:48you know I didn't want to be one of

0:15:49those guys that I ranges his dishwasher

0:15:52the same way for the rest of his life

0:15:54good for you John yeah so I started

0:15:56doing it a different way and it's a it's

0:15:58a radically different way it's going

0:16:00across the grain mmm and there's a part

0:16:03of me that feels like mmm this couldn't

0:16:06work this can't work but I still I mean

0:16:10that there's no there's no wasted space

0:16:12in the dishwasher and I still managed to

0:16:14get all the typical it's not like I have

0:16:16a bunch of leftover dishes hmm so it's

0:16:20working but i'm i'm still does it feel

0:16:24wrong i'm just on pins and needles about

0:16:27it it's like changing the way you wipe

0:16:28some of those things were like you as

0:16:29you feel like there's an improvement to

0:16:30the system it still feels wrong it feels

0:16:33like you're at cross purposes with

0:16:34everything you know we know the

0:16:35apparently many many many years ago i

0:16:40encountered some little skirmish in the

0:16:44toilet paper roll wars mm-hmm where it

0:16:47was it was presented to me as a choice

0:16:50that you can either put the toilet paper

0:16:51roll on top feeding or bottom feeding

0:16:54yep and it was given to me that the

0:16:58majority used the top feeding method and

0:17:01so in order I mean mine my native

0:17:05response to that was to be to take the

0:17:08road less traveled by and that has made

0:17:10all the difference and so I put it on

0:17:12bottom rolling now because two rolls

0:17:14diverted in a wood that's right not

0:17:17because I preferred it not because I

0:17:18cared one way or the other because

0:17:20nothing could be more insignificant yeah

0:17:22but I just did it that way and then I

0:17:26posted a picture the other day of my

0:17:28toilet paper rolls somehow on the on the

0:17:34internet and I got all this blowback all

0:17:38this like you know you're doing it wrong

0:17:40yeah all that you're doing it wrong

0:17:42voices echoing out of the well actually

0:17:44and I never heard a single person say

0:17:47thank goodness a man standing up for

0:17:49justice and so now I feel I'm in a

0:17:54posture like the last time I change the

0:17:56toilet paper rolls

0:17:57put him on top over not because I

0:18:00succumbed to peer pressure but because I

0:18:03was wondering if there was some

0:18:04technological reason if there was some

0:18:06massive improvement in though in the the

0:18:10way that this toilet paper was going to

0:18:11perform and so now I've been dealing

0:18:14with this sort of over-the-top stuff and

0:18:16I'm trying to figure out like am I am I

0:18:19doing this better am I am I more

0:18:22refreshed when i leave the the the water

0:18:26closet am i do I go about my day with

0:18:29more of us bring in my step it's really

0:18:31hard to discern in such a short short

0:18:34amount of time but it doesn't feel right

0:18:38yeah i mean i used to have feelings

0:18:43about this you know there's just been

0:18:44there's been so many minor differences

0:18:48that the world and the internet in

0:18:50particular chooses to have a obsession

0:18:52about i mean you get the whole like

0:18:54pineapple on pizza there's all these

0:18:56different things that have zero impact

0:18:57and that seems to make them all the more

0:18:58important yeah I yeah I don't know I'd

0:19:01apple on one kind of pizza let's agree

0:19:03hmm well it's all green pineapple it's

0:19:06all Hawaiian style pizza yeah if you if

0:19:08you order that you get you get pineapple

0:19:09on it there it is it's the end oh

0:19:11interesting mekka lekka hi mekka hiney

0:19:12ho right yeah Oh wah wah wah wah oh look

0:19:17like it took a look like a look okay I

0:19:18was not really insensitive of me I was

0:19:21thinking about this the other day yes

0:19:23the degree this was this was very

0:19:25confusing to me at first but then I

0:19:28thought that I thought that I found a

0:19:30way out of the jungle which was that I

0:19:32was reflecting on Noam Chomsky mm-hmm

0:19:38and I was reflecting on the fact that

0:19:41you know I i liked not liked you can't

0:19:45say that you like Noam Chomsky but I did

0:19:49a deep dive on Noam Chomsky during the

0:19:51time that we all did back in art back in

0:19:53our 20s in and and my experience of Noam

0:19:59Chomsky was that there was nothing he

0:20:01said that that you could point a finger

0:20:04at and say I just you know that's wrong

0:20:07right i mean everything he said

0:20:10conformed to my own beliefs and and

0:20:13supported my own suspicions and you know

0:20:17confirmed kind of my vision of the world

0:20:19and I didn't I I agreed with noam

0:20:22chomsky all the way down but still it

0:20:28seemed that Noam Chomsky was wrong like

0:20:33he was you couldn't point at anything

0:20:36like all of his proofs were correct and

0:20:40yet still in the aggregate from the from

0:20:45a mile high he was just he was just

0:20:48wrong like anarcho-syndicalism or

0:20:51whatever is not the solution and and I

0:20:55and I was you know kind of chewing on

0:20:57this because it seems like a it seems

0:20:59like it would be it was I was trying to

0:21:01figure out how that was some insight

0:21:03into now and I realized that or I didn't

0:21:07realize but I but then I started

0:21:08thinking about how in math and in

0:21:11science you people will pursue these

0:21:16elegant solutions to problems and the

0:21:19solution will be this beautiful thing

0:21:22that that is right absolutely right all

0:21:25the way through it and then at the very

0:21:28end it is not correct right it doesn't

0:21:31solve for x and the mathematician goes

0:21:37back to the drawing board and and a lot

0:21:39of times is a lot of times they waste

0:21:42years because it the thing they're

0:21:45working on is so beautiful and so true

0:21:48that they can't abandon it and it and it

0:21:52started to just sort of start spin in my

0:21:55head that in the sciences where we're

0:22:00able at least at the end to to examine

0:22:07the thing that is that is beautiful and

0:22:09if it doesn't work we have to throw it

0:22:12away even even in spite of its beauty or

0:22:14we keep certain parts of it but but we

0:22:16have to we have to acknowledge that it

0:22:18it it isn't true and in the social

0:22:22sciences and Impala

0:22:23we can pursue these ideas these like

0:22:29tallies towering sort of formations of

0:22:32ideas and they feel true and they seem

0:22:34true and they all sort of logically

0:22:36follow but at the end we don't have that

0:22:39you know that the anna and i think it's

0:22:44not that there isn't a true answer it's

0:22:48just that we don't have the technology

0:22:50right now the intelligence or the

0:22:52technology to discern what the true

0:22:56answer is in in the science and the

0:22:59social sciences are in politics right we

0:23:01just can't see it and you know a

0:23:06thousand years from now or even two

0:23:07hundred years from now it may be

0:23:09possible to see that the true answers

0:23:13there but now they're just still sort of

0:23:17like oh its sources all the way down or

0:23:20you know the the stars in the sky are

0:23:23pinpricks in the fabric and so we follow

0:23:27these elegant solutions and we see these

0:23:30beautiful sort of you know elaborate

0:23:33thought storms and we say this must be

0:23:36true and when we when we apply them to

0:23:40the world and they don't work and they

0:23:43you know they like they utterly fail in

0:23:47a lot of cases to actually describe

0:23:49reality or to be useful we can't abandon

0:23:53them because we because that isn't

0:23:55there's no control group large enough

0:23:58for there's you know there isn't that

0:24:01that arrival at like does this solve the

0:24:04problem absolutely not no it's always a

0:24:08question of does this all problem well

0:24:09we haven't applied it enough times or we

0:24:11haven't we don't have a funding or you

0:24:14know it only works in a vacuum or

0:24:17whatever and and so I was really like

0:24:19chewing on that as I kind of I don't

0:24:23know like a hopefulness that that where

0:24:28we are now which is this like world of

0:24:30total subjectivity in politics and

0:24:33culture where everything is just like

0:24:36your opinion

0:24:37man mm-hmm isn't the end that isn't that

0:24:41or even it could be something where

0:24:42there's near-universal ascent for now

0:24:45about the scientific rigor and validity

0:24:48of a given theory which doesn't mean

0:24:51what everybody thinks it means but you

0:24:52know whether that's gravity or something

0:24:54there you know how the shape of the

0:24:57earth there are still going to be people

0:25:01who have the reasons why they choose to

0:25:04believe that it isn't true or can't be

0:25:06true the earth is sitting in a gravity

0:25:08bag yeah we're like a great great tweet

0:25:10i saw not long ago there are flatter of

0:25:12society people all over the globe I I

0:25:16think it's I do think about this as

0:25:19somebody who's just an observer of all

0:25:21of these things and you know an

0:25:23enthusiast sometimes about some of these

0:25:25topics but I i think there's will have

0:25:27these sort of rough mental models none

0:25:29of which is very complete but yeah well

0:25:31here's one example one example is my

0:25:33computer right now where you know why is

0:25:35my computer work well I don't know why

0:25:37or how my computer works I can tell when

0:25:39it stops working and then I can choose

0:25:41to identify what it is that made it work

0:25:43again I don't know if it was actually

0:25:45unplugging the keyboard the quota fix

0:25:46this I don't think that's it I think

0:25:48that was probably a symptom of a deeper

0:25:49problem so I can I can for the moment be

0:25:52recording this program with you

0:25:53believing that the problem is solved but

0:25:55I don't even know what the problem is

0:25:57I'm not sure if it's solved and I don't

0:25:59know if it will or won't come back again

0:26:00because because who knows that's one

0:26:02kind of model for it is that you know

0:26:03it's it's all again that's a lot like

0:26:05cutting the ends off the roast but with

0:26:07the science stuff for any kind of

0:26:08scholarship in particular in this is an

0:26:11incomplete mental model but I do think

0:26:14of it a little bit like a like a puzzle

0:26:16like I think about when I was a kid my

0:26:18family my mom mainly was putting

0:26:20together this very difficult I think it

0:26:23was over 500 pieces but a very very

0:26:25large puzzle of a coin it was a liberty

0:26:27dollar so that it's more than 500 pieces

0:26:31because I see 1,500 piece puzzles all

0:26:33the time that's toys for kids I know I

0:26:36know and I never saw the appeal

0:26:37personally but you know the thing is to

0:26:39think about that think about making a

0:26:401000 piece puzzle of a coin it's like a

0:26:45recipe for madness it would be like

0:26:46doing a puzzle of a

0:26:49a brown shot of a pool I mean every

0:26:53piece looks pretty much exactly the same

0:26:54so I mean I mean first you to figure out

0:26:57what the puzzle is that you're trying to

0:26:58solve you wonder if you have all the

0:27:00pieces and then as you go along you

0:27:02start fitting them again and complete

0:27:04but like that's the way I think about a

0:27:05little bit and these two pieces seem to

0:27:06fit together but you may find that they

0:27:08actually fit together with this other

0:27:09piece and that takes time and it never

0:27:11really even takes into account whether

0:27:13you should be solving a puzzle at all

0:27:14but that's that's the thing is like some

0:27:15scientific stuff for some scholarship

0:27:16comes too early sometimes maybe it comes

0:27:19too late sometimes it comes at the you

0:27:21know maybe again maybe like with my

0:27:23computer there's some kind of there's

0:27:24something valid in what they're

0:27:26discussing but it isn't one hundred

0:27:28percent correct accurate for all x in

0:27:31ways that may not be apparent for years

0:27:33but that doesn't mean it's not useful I

0:27:35mean that's how you discover penicillin

0:27:36yeah well I mean right but what we don't

0:27:40remember is the is the like thousands of

0:27:44people that were injected with human

0:27:46feces and died in the search for

0:27:50penicillin alright and ideally as I

0:27:52understand the process which is the

0:27:54process I don't actually understand but

0:27:55part of it is documenting the times it

0:27:57didn't work this is where you get into

0:27:58the file drawer effect where you only

0:27:59publish the results to turn out the way

0:28:01you want it you know to seems like to

0:28:03you really have to have to be replicable

0:28:06and you have to talk about ways that it

0:28:07might not be replicable and you know

0:28:10that that desire to find not the truth

0:28:14with a capital T but like what I can

0:28:15prove for now and document it that's the

0:28:18real scientist the real science is not

0:28:20having some article that you know shows

0:28:21up on public radio it's about that

0:28:23search for what I what I can prove how I

0:28:25think I can prove it and then how that

0:28:27maybe fits into something else but

0:28:29that's a much more humble kind of

0:28:32science well and I think that's exactly

0:28:35what I'm getting at because in the

0:28:37social sciences and politics there is

0:28:44really really really a strong trend and

0:28:48very little incentive to admit when a

0:28:53thing doesn't work because if that's not

0:28:57going to get you that's not going to get

0:28:58you headlines right in what science page

0:29:01of the local paper it

0:29:03so doesn't this is the problem right a

0:29:05theory feels so gratifying when you when

0:29:09you when you feel like it explains

0:29:11everything and to abandon it to abandon

0:29:16aspects of it or it entirely is really

0:29:21destabilizing and it makes you feel

0:29:22awful and and you realize that it isn't

0:29:25everything isn't explained by a by a

0:29:29sort of book or a paragraph in a book

0:29:32and there's no incentive to do it

0:29:35because I'm you know when we started

0:29:37calling them the social sciences we were

0:29:41trying to give them the imprimatur of

0:29:43science because we thought we could use

0:29:46the scientific method to investigate

0:29:49these these sort of soft ideas or hard

0:29:56to prove things that what that are only

0:29:58provable in mass aggregate over hundreds

0:30:02of years or something but we've sort of

0:30:04abandoned the science side of it and

0:30:07it's now just it's become a thing where

0:30:11your conviction versus my conviction and

0:30:13any any any feeling of doubt within

0:30:17yourself or any feeling of doubt within

0:30:19your community where you're like did

0:30:21this work is this working does this is

0:30:24this accurate is really shouted down

0:30:27because it's because it's understood to

0:30:31its kind of under fine tenor

0:30:32revolutionary that's right

0:30:33counter-revolutionary under undermine

0:30:35our our our great struggle and that's

0:30:39the that's the thing the feeling of like

0:30:43oh this isn't this actually isn't it's

0:30:47not that any one particular idea or any

0:30:49any group of ideas is is plaguing me

0:30:53it's more that this isn't a method this

0:30:56isn't a future method this isn't what

0:30:58we'll be doing forever we will again

0:31:01remember

0:31:02that we have to test things and when

0:31:05they don't work we have to have the

0:31:06courage to say they don't work right and

0:31:09that rather than trying to shore up

0:31:12whatever flimsy proof you have that it

0:31:14does work yeah or just say or to make

0:31:17those excuses that it doesn't work

0:31:18because of you know because of all these

0:31:22external factors that we can't control

0:31:23and we need to if we just keep applying

0:31:26our program that doesn't work long

0:31:29enough it will be shown to work after we

0:31:33have changed every other conditions uh

0:31:36and you know that's a pretty good

0:31:40traction in a certain light colored

0:31:42house in DC right now uh well and in and

0:31:45in the left even more or or equally as

0:31:48much now we can we basically we have

0:31:50nicer chicken bones that's what we're

0:31:53doing the same foo do but we think our

0:31:54chicken bones st. you know have a

0:31:55graduate degree yeah our stone soup has

0:31:58more stone now its twenty percent more

0:32:01stone this episode of Roderick on the

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0:34:23much to Casper for sporting Roderick on

0:34:25the line and all the great shows I'm

0:34:29just looking for some relief my dad my

0:34:32imagination I can't I can't put it in

0:34:35this in these stone soups it just you

0:34:38know it just keep swimming to the top

0:34:40and thing we please pluck me back we had

0:34:43a row we had a kind of school related

0:34:45Easter activity this weekend my wife and

0:34:48another parent put together this egg

0:34:51hunt for the kids it was really fun I

0:34:52ended up talking to his buddy of mine

0:34:54I've worked with a lot in the past and

0:34:56you know we are aligned on many many

0:34:59things oh you know who it is it's your

0:35:02member when I interviewed you in my yard

0:35:04and my friend that the glasses was there

0:35:06and he brought his friend who kept

0:35:06talking and you yelled in him uh-huh

0:35:08isn't it fun with the glasses yeah your

0:35:10friend with the glasses he was a very he

0:35:13was a very good help to me he's good

0:35:15again he's good man thorough very

0:35:16professional I thought I daughter's go

0:35:18to school together now hmm so but he we

0:35:21were talking and you know the of course

0:35:24as with any Easter occasion in 2017

0:35:26eventually you turn to talking about a

0:35:28just everything and but he's so much

0:35:32more on top of the ball like he's like

0:35:33scheduled time to go like make calls and

0:35:36do stuff like I'm so I'm so covered with

0:35:39shame about how much I'm still just

0:35:41sinker going Merc my understand anything

0:35:43I just want to understand things again

0:35:46you gave me the opportunity to pull out

0:35:49two wonderful quotes that are widely

0:35:50known I want to cite these quotes here

0:35:53with credit credited to Helmuth von

0:35:56Moltke no battle plan survives contact

0:35:59with the enemy that's right that's a

0:36:01wonderful right that's a great it's a

0:36:03great quote and I say it all the time

0:36:04and it's it's been adapted to many

0:36:07different as of course you know the

0:36:09computer people they're always getting

0:36:11other people's things as you know but

0:36:13damn it no you no no no documentation

0:36:16survives contact with the user in any of

0:36:18those kinds of things and then the other

0:36:19one from the great classical philosopher

0:36:21Mike Tyson everybody has a plan until

0:36:23they get punched in the mouth in the

0:36:29mouth you know it's funny because it's

0:36:32true you know yeah yep I i I've been

0:36:38I've been chewing on chewing on some

0:36:41ideas I've been I I realized yesterday

0:36:46as I was I was cleaning my house

0:36:48yesterday my house is I've let it go on

0:36:51cleaned I let the yard go on trimmed for

0:36:55a couple of seasons and everything had

0:36:57gone to everything had gone to chaos

0:37:00there were there were receipts from

0:37:047-eleven where I never go from like 2013

0:37:08sort of laying around yeah like I need

0:37:10this well and just like how did this but

0:37:13how did this end up here how did why

0:37:15would I put this down on a table and how

0:37:18is it still here yeah what that is that

0:37:21says bad things that's it in like it's

0:37:24not disputable there's nothing where you

0:37:26get you don't get an appeal on this

0:37:28there is as we used to say in military

0:37:30school no excuse sir there is no there's

0:37:32no excuse because the piles speak for

0:37:35themselves they are in chronological

0:37:36order except for the time you must it up

0:37:38a bit trying to find something actually

0:37:39useful I missed all of your kibble yeah

0:37:42there it is but so I spent an entire day

0:37:44let's call it two days I've been working

0:37:48on I've been working on the yard for

0:37:49several weeks but I and I did some

0:37:52things that I'd been planning to do for

0:37:54years like I chop the top out of my ugly

0:37:56apple tree and let it do what it's gonna

0:37:59do let it fair its own you know what I

0:38:01mean like it's apple tree can't hang

0:38:03then it's out of here my mom is very

0:38:05unsentimental about trees unlike other

0:38:08things and I could take I could take a

0:38:11lesson from her but this tree I was just

0:38:13like you know what I've hated the top of

0:38:14you for a long time and you're gone but

0:38:17that's been over the past couple of

0:38:18weeks but the last two days I decided I

0:38:21was going to clean the house I was going

0:38:22to do a deep deep dive and I realized

0:38:26that I could work on a project in the

0:38:29house for a sustained hour before I

0:38:35needed a 20 minute vacation mm-hmm and

0:38:38I'd never because I I'd never like I'd

0:38:46never seen it in action this way because

0:38:48I have these stupid stupid stupid little

0:38:50games on my phone that are just so

0:38:53stupid and I think they're so getting to

0:38:56you and some monkey part of my brain is

0:38:58just like well got 20 minutes to kill

0:39:01yeah might as well go bleep on my so I

0:39:05worked all I work from 8am to 8 p.m.

0:39:09yesterday cleaning the house and I took

0:39:12six 20-minute breaks to go boopy boopy

0:39:19boopy boopy but I worked diligently the

0:39:23rest of the time that's still better

0:39:25than most people on a given day I would

0:39:27postulate I am and way better than I

0:39:30normally do yeah but what was

0:39:32interesting was that I didn't I didn't

0:39:36chastise myself for the 20-minute breaks

0:39:38because the hour I'd gotten a lot done

0:39:39and so I was like I'm gonna take a

0:39:42little break and I play the thing until

0:39:44I would hit that point where my brain

0:39:47had turned to mush there wasn't anything

0:39:48else here to find

0:39:51and then I went back and I it really was

0:39:54a a kind of workflow and I wonder if

0:40:00there isn't something there for me to

0:40:02mine you know you're saying there's no

0:40:05reason you can't extend that to your

0:40:06indoor sudo digital life well I'm 22

0:40:10everything to writing songs like work on

0:40:12it for an hour and then go take 20

0:40:14minutes where you do this like where you

0:40:16play minesweeper and then back at it

0:40:19instead of and recognize that the

0:40:23minesweeper playing is also part of the

0:40:25work day it's part of the it's it's an

0:40:28integral part of the hour um here's the

0:40:33one with you yeah oh I'm dying well in

0:40:36the days when I was considered by some

0:40:37to be a Productivity guru I wrote about

0:40:39this and I called it the procrastination

0:40:41dash which is just the idea this is I've

0:40:43since heard this called things like the

0:40:45Pomodoro Technique sure whatever but the

0:40:48basic idea was of my idea was if there's

0:40:50something you've been putting off

0:40:51remember there's light at the end of the

0:40:53tunnel and this could go for anything

0:40:54doesn't have to be something you're

0:40:55procrastinating but like the idea is you

0:40:57spend n minutes working on the thing and

0:41:01then no matter what you stop at the end

0:41:03of those arbitrary and minutes I would

0:41:05say 20 minutes at the end of that 20

0:41:07minutes you take a five-minute break or

0:41:08an ax minute break you decide what the

0:41:10you know the end and the exes but the

0:41:12idea is you build in that like I know

0:41:14I'm only going to have to do this thing

0:41:16for so long and then I'm going to go do

0:41:18this other thing that maybe it's a thing

0:41:20I like or maybe it's a thing that's

0:41:21different but like you know if you try

0:41:23to organize instead of saying I'm going

0:41:25to spend three hours on this if he

0:41:27instead you say I'm going to spend the

0:41:28this number of these 20 minutes cycles

0:41:30on this I think that's I think that's a

0:41:33good way to kind of bang on your brain a

0:41:34little bit and to make it make it

0:41:35totally doable bang on the brain because

0:41:39at least helps you get bang on the brain

0:41:40with a baseball breakup i ended up a

0:41:43yeah you at least you know the the thing

0:41:46is the trick inside the trick the double

0:41:48turns out is that it gets you to work on

0:41:49something you've been procrastinating

0:41:50about putting off for whatever reason

0:41:52because you at least get started the

0:41:53hardest part of anything is getting

0:41:54started and that's all your brain needs

0:41:55to know I'm not going to die if I get

0:41:57started on this the hardest part of

0:41:59breaking up is folgers in your cup right

0:42:01that's the worst part worst part of

0:42:03breaking up is folgers in your cup we've

0:42:05replaced John's Folgers crystals with a

0:42:08Minecraft like game hmm like a new word

0:42:11game I like I should I shouldn't tell

0:42:13you about it well no I would see a word

0:42:16game would be a massive improvement over

0:42:18these like basically as Chris Leak grip

0:42:21games well as Chris camellia once once

0:42:23put it putting away the dishes he's like

0:42:27all these games that you play are just

0:42:28putting away the dishes like I hate

0:42:31really good dishes why would i play one

0:42:33of these games that's just putting away

0:42:34the dishes Oh God and I'm just like

0:42:36putting away anyway putting those issues

0:42:40uh what pop but I've so a word game at

0:42:42least would be using like some other

0:42:45part of so the part of my brain that

0:42:46recognizes letters yeah yeah what is it

0:42:49you really want to know well yes it's

0:42:51called type shift time should one word

0:42:53and type shift you you get this little

0:42:55imagine like a like a little clicky

0:42:59combination lock on a suitcase where you

0:43:00got the little tourney things to fail so

0:43:02basically these letters drop-down and

0:43:04there's several letters in each of

0:43:08however many vertical rows and you move

0:43:11them around to create words and you try

0:43:12and create as many words as you can in a

0:43:15short period of time I'm not really

0:43:16selling it very well but it's a there's

0:43:18several different versions of it inside

0:43:19of the game and it's really fun it's not

0:43:21horribly addictive it's not like that

0:43:22terrible threes game but it is really

0:43:25enjoyable all right well I'll give it a

0:43:28try i usually those games that are like

0:43:30racing with somebody else to come up

0:43:32with many words as you can with four

0:43:33letters hmm aye aye aye mmm it's like

0:43:38people say to me all the time you should

0:43:39come join our trivia game our trivia

0:43:41team our pub trivia team pub trivia tea

0:43:45and I'm like no thank you that just I

0:43:47mean so stressful it does to sit there

0:43:50and be like Oh what was the name of the

0:43:51second Bananarama LP guy guy guy then

0:43:54somebody else has it and you're just

0:43:55like fuck yeah I don't want that I don't

0:43:57want that it right no no no no you don't

0:43:59want that no no no no no I just found

0:44:02I'm sitting here on the table I I was

0:44:06cleaning I was cleaning up I've been

0:44:07moving a lot of stuff to my office

0:44:09moving stuff that I realized doesn't

0:44:10belong in my house shouting office that

0:44:13that causes an unusual mode of thinking

0:44:15I've it really don't you I'm seriously

0:44:17it's a novel way of having to think

0:44:19about your life and how it gets

0:44:21segmented well I mean not just you but

0:44:22anybody else who happens to be involved

0:44:24in your house like how it affects them

0:44:25like this is really need to be here yeah

0:44:27right right like uh like I so I like I

0:44:31like these six boxes of comic books to

0:44:33be at the house but nobody else really

0:44:35needs that yeah I don't really need that

0:44:37no no I my dad went through a long long

0:44:41phase throughout the late 70s thought no

0:44:44no I'm sorry throughout the from about

0:44:4773 if if my research indicates correctly

0:44:51from about 73 to probably 83 my dad fell

0:44:58victim to the disease the mental

0:45:02disorder of thinking that slides were

0:45:06better than Prince all right have we

0:45:09talked about this before he might have

0:45:11been all inherit again well slide slide

0:45:13you get out you get a really

0:45:14high-quality image you get a

0:45:15high-quality image that you can only see

0:45:18projected against the wall of your

0:45:19living room or one of those cool little

0:45:21dinguses we were you stick it into

0:45:22little viewer yeah but who wants to look

0:45:25at pictures that way nobody mean or

0:45:27nobody any more well and who wants to

0:45:29look at the metal right and so my dad

0:45:31took my dad took twenty thousand

0:45:35pictures on slides and then at some

0:45:38point along the way he felt like he

0:45:41needed to have those slides ready to

0:45:43view and so he started buying slide

0:45:47reels the the circular can sort of

0:45:49carousels that's right the like you're

0:45:52like it's a machine gun and he bought I

0:45:56don't know 25 carousels and loaded them

0:46:02with slides and then put them back in

0:46:05the box and I'm sure never looked at

0:46:09them again yeah and so now I inherited

0:46:1225 full carousels whenever we have the

0:46:17same box in our we have a giant giant

0:46:19box of my father-in-law slides in cream

0:46:21sauce yeah

0:46:24was a it was like a weird it was like

0:46:26going to asked it was a it was a

0:46:28collective like what well yeah what do

0:46:31they call that a like a delusion er yeah

0:46:35hysteria or something out and so I have

0:46:38all these slides and I have them here at

0:46:39the house right because pictures belong

0:46:41at the house and then I realized these

0:46:45pictures do not belong at the house

0:46:46these pictures belong at the office and

0:46:48one day and the thing about them is so

0:46:50many of them were like uh well they're

0:46:53constructing the pipeline and my dad got

0:46:56hired by a pipeline service company to

0:47:01provide the framework for like high

0:47:06school equivalency degrees for the guys

0:47:10who were welding the pipe and so my dad

0:47:13goes up he had this kind of thing going

0:47:15on all the time my dad started a

0:47:16university at one point and so he went

0:47:19up uh he went up to the pipeline as it

0:47:23was being built like early 70s and in

0:47:26the style that he had he had his canon

0:47:30ae-1 and he just see seemingly just

0:47:33pointed the camera randomly without

0:47:36looking through them I hold this that's

0:47:38back when you had to kind of tweak a lot

0:47:41of stuff to get a good photo ya know if

0:47:43it was a good photo until you got it

0:47:44developed that's right and so they're

0:47:47all these pictures of light well there's

0:47:50a dirt parking lot full of pipe and

0:47:54there's the back end of a truck and the

0:47:58door of a mobile home oh boy and

0:48:01thinking about this huh and there's the

0:48:04coffee maker inside the mobile home it's

0:48:06very dark it's very dark in there

0:48:09because he didn't adjust the f stops uh

0:48:12so there's the coffee maker I think I

0:48:14can make it out and then there's like

0:48:15three guys standing around in sunglasses

0:48:18that note that he didn't know let alone

0:48:22me today so an AI that did a better job

0:48:25of this well and I know so but that but

0:48:28my disease his disease was that my

0:48:31disease is this is this the disease of

0:48:34here is an envelope of pictures of

0:48:36people you never knew

0:48:38that's your legacy you you have your

0:48:41good steward of that but one day like

0:48:44there aren't that many pictures of the

0:48:47pipeline being built even poorly taken I

0:48:50mean I guess there are probably millions

0:48:53of pictures of the pipeline being built

0:48:54but there aren't pictures of the

0:48:55pipeline being built that are so in

0:48:57artfully done and maybe there's someone

0:49:01out there that's like that's the only

0:49:03extant picture of that particular brand

0:49:06of coffee maker all right no one ever

0:49:08thought to take that picture my dad died

0:49:10a week after that and it's the only

0:49:12photo of him we have from that time yeah

0:49:14that's right okay and is that is that

0:49:16part part of the thinking is like what

0:49:18if this is precious in a way that is not

0:49:20clear from the seemingly useless

0:49:23low-quality nature of it as I understand

0:49:26it yeah like what are you what is this

0:49:28Abby's favorite thing and I just don't

0:49:30know it in the background on one of

0:49:32these photos there's a mound and it

0:49:35turns out 50 years from now someone

0:49:38discovers that that mound is actually an

0:49:40Alaskan pyramid doll yeah and

0:49:44everybody's like wow and suddenly

0:49:48pictures of that Alaskan pyramid

0:49:50accidentally taken in the background of

0:49:52the alyeska pipeline construction

0:49:54company they're like they're crucial

0:49:58evidence I don't it's not like and we

0:50:02commissioned in a court with your

0:50:03carousels clickety-clack your honor your

0:50:06honor it supports out of order and you

0:50:13can't handle the truth I who are you sir

0:50:17what what I need to do is set this set a

0:50:20slide projector up and sit in my

0:50:24darkened office and watch these slides

0:50:27and take the few out that mean anything

0:50:30but then you have four slides with no

0:50:35context that at some point in your life

0:50:38you thought meant something and you took

0:50:41them out of their context and then

0:50:43forever forever after they are rootless

0:50:46meaning just floating nothing you're the

0:50:49memories

0:50:50Yeah right and then the rest of the

0:50:53slides are what what are they they're

0:50:56just like camp fire starters or you send

0:50:58them to Goodwill and some a deist buys

0:51:01them like I keep imagining that they're

0:51:03artists out there mm-hmm and I don't

0:51:06even know if there are but there used to

0:51:09be artists out there that would go

0:51:11thrift stores and buy old photographs

0:51:13until there was such a glut of old

0:51:15photographs that whoever those artists

0:51:17were they did all their art there's

0:51:19nobody out there making art of old

0:51:20peoples you know prom photos and all

0:51:24those websites they're like that is if

0:51:26only I had more photos of a mobile home

0:51:28door I have a full concept of these odds

0:51:33that I'm making from Zesco pipeline call

0:51:37it pour tous and I and so what are they

0:51:41yeah right collective memory but they're

0:51:44not useful we have you know we have

0:51:47every like peggy sue got married is all

0:51:49we need to know about the 50s why do I

0:51:52need what is essentially a 500-person

0:51:56haircut like repositories that's all it

0:52:00is just like well here's some haircuts

0:52:02right this guy had a different haircut

0:52:04than that guy like here they are not in

0:52:06the five-person what is it if I person

0:52:08found a person haircut or a repository

0:52:12sorry save it as a photos of the

0:52:13haircuts or you're saving the clipped

0:52:15hair no I don't have access to their

0:52:17hair but about one you know one day

0:52:19people be like now hot I know that I

0:52:21know how like the fonz were here but I

0:52:24secular guy wear his hair right but but

0:52:28if you wanted to do that you'd go to the

0:52:30library or the thrift store and buy all

0:52:33the yearbooks and you'd have them all

0:52:36there in a book these are all basically

0:52:38yearbook photos of the van wert high

0:52:40school class of nineteen fifty why do

0:52:43you need those there's a year for those

0:52:46anyway the only reason to keep them is

0:52:49that you're an artist or that you know

0:52:50an artist or that you believe there are

0:52:52artists still who do collage work

0:52:55collage artists sure multimedia your

0:52:59problem out of business when you sort

0:53:01those slides who knows what you're doing

0:53:02to the the collage industry

0:53:04that's right that's right it's hard you

0:53:07know and you it'sit's you know when I've

0:53:09tried to do cleanups in the past I found

0:53:11a lot of resistance to getting started I

0:53:13found it very painful at first but the

0:53:16feeling I inevitably almost inevitable

0:53:18inevitably get to is oh my god I really

0:53:21probably could have just thrown almost

0:53:23all of this away sight unseen but I

0:53:26didn't you know how you get sorted it

0:53:28got you know triaged but like you know

0:53:30when you're done you have a lot less

0:53:33stuff than you started with and you

0:53:34sometimes I feel a quickening or I'm

0:53:35like oh god give me more now I want to

0:53:38especially player got it called a holler

0:53:39you know dump guy or something like that

0:53:41like I really want this to be worth the

0:53:43money and the time I want to fill that

0:53:45man's white truck with Kipple well and

0:53:48that happened to me yesterday I got a

0:53:50big box and I was like all this stuff's

0:53:51going to the office and I started

0:53:53throwing shoeboxes full of wall warts

0:53:56and quarter into hable con and old

0:53:59guitar picks and and weird like ah and

0:54:02I'm throwing it all in this box and if

0:54:04it had been a dumpster I would have been

0:54:07fine hmm like if it had been a dumpster

0:54:09I never would have thought of these

0:54:10things again but as it is i'm going to

0:54:11take it to my office and I'm gonna go

0:54:13through i'm gonna put all the quarter

0:54:14inch cables and this and i put all the

0:54:16broken pics in that and and it should

0:54:19have just been it could have been a hole

0:54:20in the earth and I should remember that

0:54:23I should remember that that you know as

0:54:25soon as you start hucking it into that

0:54:26guy's white truck just this fill that

0:54:29truck up you know like that's best gift

0:54:31you can give yourself if you got the

0:54:32space to have it there for a few days is

0:54:34rent yourself a three yard dumpster oh

0:54:36good well I've been involved without

0:54:39saying too much I've been involved in

0:54:40things that involved having to go

0:54:42through a lot of things very quickly in

0:54:43a difficult way and I will just say that

0:54:46my one bulwark against madness was the

0:54:48ability to whip something through the

0:54:50air toward a very very large target and

0:54:52know that I wouldn't look at it again

0:54:54and you know it's bad about you don't be

0:54:56precious you know to disassemble

0:54:57anything you just draw it into the three

0:54:59yard dumpster and it goes away but it's

0:55:02there for a few days in case oh nice

0:55:06three yard dumpster I'm looking at some

0:55:07here these are nice you actually buy one

0:55:09of these you on you got the flip up top

0:55:10you probably got a dual flip up top but

0:55:12I'm just get a little door you can go in

0:55:13through the little door if you're not

0:55:14going there and like you have lunch or

0:55:15something

0:55:16but I I think that's a big difference I

0:55:18mean I'm I don't mean to be accidentally

0:55:20reverting to my former retired career

0:55:23but like I think there's a big

0:55:25difference if you if you go into a

0:55:27situation where you need to clean stuff

0:55:28out and you brought like a single

0:55:30Chinese food takeout bag that the

0:55:33results are going to be very different

0:55:34than if you had brought a 13 gallon

0:55:36hefty bag will be very different than if

0:55:39you had brought a giant contractor bag

0:55:40will be very different here's a big one

0:55:43contractor bag in a big hefty like clean

0:55:48up after a party size because you don't

0:55:51have to you your goal is just fill I

0:55:54want to see as many black contractor

0:55:56bags at the end of the day as possible

0:55:57mm-hmm you know I mean setting aside

0:55:59being green and stuff whatever that's

0:56:00fine but like if you've really got to do

0:56:02that you don't want to feel constrained

0:56:04by like which one should I put this in

0:56:05is this the USB cables i save which is

0:56:10the USB cable they donate i somehow in

0:56:16here and i thought it might have come

0:56:18from you there was a brand new mostly

0:56:23unused or i guess that's the definition

0:56:26of brand-new that was a redundancy no

0:56:28one of those plug your computer in

0:56:32direct to the modem with a cable what is

0:56:34that called hot cable or me talking

0:56:37about a hot cable and pancake table yeah

0:56:40if your cabling you want to kick it

0:56:42table cable yeah right so it was a hot

0:56:44cable you don't throw that out that's

0:56:45brand new and unused that is wasteful

0:56:48200 feet long what Oh Ethan net cable

0:56:51yeah yeah cuz one time you need to run

0:56:54ethernet way way way up to like the

0:56:56second floor right but this was 200 feet

0:56:58this could go over to my neighbor's

0:57:00house sure and giving player could make

0:57:03a little house out of it yeah and I was

0:57:05like what the how would I ever like this

0:57:09is something that you know that

0:57:10sometimes you know one of the great

0:57:11things about you Merlin is that

0:57:12sometimes you're just like oh that's a

0:57:14good idea and you push it you push the

0:57:16button on amazon and it shows up at my

0:57:18house king yeah and i'm like wow this

0:57:21thing you know it's like cabled like a

0:57:23like an anchor chain on a ship

0:57:25and I was like what am I going to do

0:57:28this it's like heavy to pick up and but

0:57:31it it was unused and it seemed eminently

0:57:33useful what if I want a hot cable into

0:57:36something and then I realized it needs

0:57:39to go to the it means to go to Goodwill

0:57:40somebody is going to want to run

0:57:42internet to their friend's house and

0:57:43this is the thing they're going to

0:57:45string it up through the trees like

0:57:46Christmas lights mm-hmm and it's gonna

0:57:48bring internet to the world could be

0:57:50there could be a collage artist who's

0:57:53recently decided to go digital and need

0:57:55a way to get it after their tree house

0:57:56where they like to put their collages

0:57:58together you're affording that the one

0:58:01thing I was worried about is if I had

0:58:03used it was my IP address in there still

0:58:06a lot of your data is probably still in

0:58:07that pipe yeah should I have deleted it

0:58:09or you want to reset the firmware on it

0:58:12and reflash it right anyone it like a

0:58:14tooth these squeeze it real hard to get

0:58:15the last little bits up because a lot of

0:58:17the special characters at that point

0:58:19will be out but a lot of the lowercase

0:58:21letters and numbers will still be in

0:58:23there you don't want them I know we're

0:58:25all very worried about hackers and

0:58:26hacking hacking hacker hacker Stan

0:58:29mm-hmm and and I know the hackers for

0:58:34macro standard like some of them are the

0:58:36worst they create all those BOTS they

0:58:38call it and so I'm sure I was just

0:58:40worried like about all this stuff all

0:58:41these USB cables and wall warts and

0:58:43stuff whether there's like oh yeah I

0:58:45know in this apparently there's so much

0:58:47stuff I need to throw out I flick need

0:58:48to go like full-on mr. robot and like

0:58:50drill through old hard drives and throw

0:58:52it into a crematorium or something

0:58:53mm-hmm that's so mr. robot oh my god

0:58:57yeah I right up here I I have two mini

0:59:01well here's the other thing i bought at

0:59:04your recommendation many years ago yeah

0:59:06i like how much this comes back to me

0:59:09well this is sense where since we're on

0:59:11the opportunity bring it up no since

0:59:15we're on a run where you're revisiting

0:59:16your your career as a former executive

0:59:19sales person hello uh-uh-uh who talked

0:59:23into his shoe phone that's fine i was

0:59:26Merlin man you remember that I figured

0:59:29we'd go all the way back to when I

0:59:31bought one of those tiny little video

0:59:33cameras that was called a flip

0:59:35oh great cameras I love my flip camera I

0:59:38had three of them I loved him well yeah

0:59:40well yeah right and so I bought one cuz

0:59:42I was like clip 1 i'm joining the flip

0:59:44revolution hosted that most of the best

0:59:47video we have of my daughter was with

0:59:49the flip phone cuz it was there was zero

0:59:51resistance he would just whip it out and

0:59:52hit the button that's all there was it's

0:59:54even easier than with an iphone

0:59:55certainly not as good video but like one

0:59:57night we this is really lame but one

0:59:59night

0:59:59night

1:00:00it occurred to me that my daughter will

1:00:02not always be washed in a bucket for the

1:00:03rest of her life and when she was an

1:00:05infant we shot the entire bath all the

1:00:07way up to getting her ready for bedtime

1:00:08and i'm so glad I've got it oh yeah yeah

1:00:11I know but that but I would have done

1:00:13that if I had to go well let me go get

1:00:15the handycam and make sure it doesn't

1:00:17have days of our lives on it but then

1:00:19something happened just as I was getting

1:00:22into my flip as I got something

1:00:24something in the mail some the

1:00:26registered letter that was like we're no

1:00:27longer supporting the flip platform and

1:00:30then it always did letter about that

1:00:32yeah and then it all went to it all went

1:00:34poof in a day like it couldn't there

1:00:36wasn't what was it the hot plug didn't

1:00:38work anymore no idea it's not be stopped

1:00:40pancaking under relevant environmental

1:00:42resources so you plug it in and it would

1:00:46just say air or air or air or that's

1:00:49that's a goddamn shame mine are still

1:00:50sitting there in the closet I want I had

1:00:52one and then I got the upgraded one one

1:00:55of them broke about another so I've got

1:00:56a total of three and III think you can

1:00:58still pop it in and get your stuff off

1:01:00it I think really yeah that you still

1:01:03got you still got a computer that has a

1:01:05USB port on it so you'll be good to

1:01:06guess yes I do boy you know that you're

1:01:09gonna love the next time you need to get

1:01:10a Mac are you post USB I have a laptop

1:01:14that has a headphone jack and exactly

1:01:18one port on it so but it's not it's not

1:01:21a port that I've ever used in my life so

1:01:23it's an entire new world of dongles for

1:01:25me and what kind of port isn't it's

1:01:28called a USB see oh and approximately

1:01:32just if you eyeballed it it would look

1:01:33pretty much like the what's called

1:01:37lightning cable for your phones about

1:01:39that size but it's not that size hmm and

1:01:42so when you say dongles what how do you

1:01:46get stuff on a dongle well that means

1:01:49that like you know if you're like most

1:01:51of the planet and you've got lots of

1:01:53stuff that's the kind of classic USB

1:01:55little boxy shape like you need the most

1:01:58basic one I've got one where I've this

1:02:00is really boring but you plug in the

1:02:02dingus I've got a thing that's a little

1:02:04hub so you put a USB hub the mail guy

1:02:08goes into your math

1:02:09and then you use a cord cable to power

1:02:12that device and that gives you three

1:02:15like USB 3 i'm picturing this and it's

1:02:18box making me so hot mmhmm yeah but no

1:02:21but if you want to have Ethernet know

1:02:22who has ethernet anymore why would

1:02:24anybody need that you want to don't USB

1:02:26thumb drives what yeah you need

1:02:28something like that no no you don't need

1:02:29that stuff so how long will we be able

1:02:32to traffic in vintage computers until

1:02:35they no longer work um you know there's

1:02:38always going to be people who are

1:02:39interested in old computers but unless

1:02:41it's in really good condition sort of

1:02:43like comic books like nobody nobody

1:02:44wants a busted-ass comic book but I mean

1:02:46if I went if I went on the internet

1:02:48right now and i bought a very good

1:02:50quality high quality computer from just

1:02:54the most recent future where it still

1:02:56had ports would i be able to you would

1:03:00that be useful to me how long how long

1:03:04would it do you say yeah how long i mean

1:03:06i'm considering getting a getting a

1:03:08desktop but i don't want to go all the

1:03:11way in right this thing where the

1:03:12desktop is just like a it's just like a

1:03:14cue ball that pulses that i know i

1:03:17understand you don't want that you don't

1:03:19like a Logan's Run computer well I would

1:03:20be remiss I will be I will be

1:03:22reprimanded via text message by John

1:03:23Cirque you see if I don't advise you

1:03:25that yes I can help you with this this

1:03:27is not the perfect time to do that but

1:03:28it won't will become soon but if it's a

1:03:31sound like you're talking about a

1:03:33desktop with a laptop in some ways the

1:03:36the thing that's inevitably going to go

1:03:38is the battery because the battery can

1:03:40only do so many charges and and the

1:03:42capacity goes down and down much like

1:03:44the human mind what would still be

1:03:46useful if you buy oh you bought a

1:03:47typical mac laptop today you will pretty

1:03:51definitely it's like buying a Toyota

1:03:53like it's not fancy but it'll be fine

1:03:55you know in Toyota runs for 300,000

1:03:57miles well yeah it's honestly like I my

1:03:59last laptop which I finally retired I

1:04:02bought in 2010 which is like a million

1:04:05years ago in laptop years but if you

1:04:07want if you bought a laptop today and

1:04:09it's not the greatest time to buy land

1:04:11it's not a good time to buy anything but

1:04:13an ipad right now so if you did do that

1:04:16and you know the one I got my laptop was

1:04:18very inexpensive as laptops go well do

1:04:21you know but you don't want that it's

1:04:22only got one port

1:04:23but if you wanted a laptop you could get

1:04:26like a refurbished macbook pro that

1:04:28still got a lot of miles on the tires

1:04:30and it's not as costly as long as a

1:04:33computer with a quarter inch in yep

1:04:36quarter inch cable if you get a high of

1:04:38a hot pan cake it you want to be able to

1:04:40have you in a flapjack your uh your

1:04:42bandwidth mm-hmm you would have a

1:04:44quarter inch cable I want to I want a

1:04:46three quarter three and a quarter inch

1:04:49floppy drive oh I still sure you much

1:04:53for your work I still have a lot of

1:04:55floppies that have stuff on them l me

1:04:59too i'm not sure what is on the floppies

1:05:02and it might be like i had this terrible

1:05:04i had this terrible thing when my dad

1:05:07was moving out of his his final

1:05:11apartment my siblings were all there all

1:05:13my useless siblings and and and my very

1:05:18useful sister was not there that it was

1:05:21just me and the useless ones yeah and we

1:05:23were going through his house there like

1:05:24alice is garbage and he had some it

1:05:28wasn't even a dell it was like a pattern

1:05:31are compounding or some yanika gateway a

1:05:33gateway it was some kind of pc that he

1:05:36used to sit and you know hunt and peck

1:05:39emails to me that were like John I hope

1:05:42you're fine you know um fuck you love

1:05:48dad and so he was the shooter a lot

1:05:53stronger when the center that here was

1:05:56this computer and I was like get that

1:05:57out of here that nobody's ever gonna use

1:05:59that and then like six years later i SAT

1:06:02up in bed in the middle of the night in

1:06:03a cold sweat and I was like oh what if

1:06:06he was secretly writing his memoirs oh

1:06:08Jesus you don't need that in your head

1:06:11IVF that whole time he had been secretly

1:06:15tapping away and then in 72 i bought the

1:06:20pair of plaid pants that i would wear to

1:06:22court every time for the next 14 years

1:06:25has a lot of theoretical responsibility

1:06:30John yep yep so I so I had to say like

1:06:34well I

1:06:36he had been doing that it would have

1:06:39been very hard to it would have been

1:06:40unreadable because he didn't know how to

1:06:42type so good all right good off your

1:06:45plate vaya con Dios intimate are the

1:06:48three yard dumpsters I don't like things

1:06:51I wrote and things that I drew this is

1:06:54before they invented minna de internet

1:06:56pornography I mean for the you know men

1:06:58of the Internet really so you were

1:07:00drawing your drawing naked picture yes

1:07:02it there in Mac Paint Megan Megan dicks

1:07:04I I actually thought about that the

1:07:13other day there was a time in I don't

1:07:17know eighth grade maybe where I SAT and

1:07:19drew dirty pictures sure I I made some

1:07:24very anatomically incorrect vaginas in

1:07:26my dad and I had a junt it looked like

1:07:29it looked like somebody dropped a mango

1:07:30I have these dirty pictures that I drew

1:07:33of like people having sex as I imagined

1:07:37it sure and I used to hide them I would

1:07:41roll the dirty pictures up that I had

1:07:43drawn into a lamp I hid them inside a

1:07:47lamp that's good spy craft yeah yeah

1:07:50yeah who's gonna look inside the lamp no

1:07:52one and the lamps of that family of lamp

1:07:57have stayed with me unto the present day

1:08:00and I was walking through the house and

1:08:03I looked at all I looked at one of these

1:08:04lamps and I was like wait a minute no

1:08:08that's the lamp that I hid the dirty

1:08:10pictures oh no but I didn't open it

1:08:14mm-hmm I looked at it and I was like

1:08:17legal if there if I if there are

1:08:21long-lost dirty pictures in that lamp

1:08:23and then I just walked yeah i just

1:08:24walked now just like you should at least

1:08:26document it's sort of like that that

1:08:28Nicolas Cage movie where they find you

1:08:31know the the what is it the declaration

1:08:33of independence has a treasure map on it

1:08:35Oh shouldn't you leave a clue say here's

1:08:37the places to look for my hand-drawn

1:08:39pornography I mean this is part of your

1:08:40legacy make it easy for others i'm

1:08:43wondering i mean if i if i pulled it out

1:08:45i would probably want to take pictures

1:08:46of it and put it on

1:08:47instagram and then those who get flagged

1:08:49i might get banned no ban hammer you can

1:08:51yeah yeah and there's lot in pencil too

1:08:54so I don't know they're degrading every

1:08:56day I guess I guess they're on notebook

1:08:58paper in pencil oh god I cannot I cannot

1:09:01remember I one of the first things that

1:09:04ever happened when I turned on my IBM

1:09:0864k pc with dual disc drives and booted

1:09:14up word star and started to learn how to

1:09:17use word star you learn all the hot key

1:09:20commands or though what were they they

1:09:23weren't hot key they were like they were

1:09:25the commands you did in basic right not

1:09:27sure that would give you italics or your

1:09:31what capital letters even um but so I'm

1:09:36sitting there in basehor and the thing

1:09:37is my mom got me this computer she

1:09:39worked in computers and she was like

1:09:40this will help you with your homework

1:09:41because back then they were selling

1:09:43these 64k computers like manage your

1:09:46finances with our new financial med

1:09:49which is still how they're selling

1:09:50computers let me on yeah true nobody

1:09:53does it nobody manages their finances

1:09:55let's just say full stop nobody manages

1:09:57their finances at all it's like cutting

1:09:58the ends off the roast it's little talk

1:10:00about nobody does it nobody does mm-hmm

1:10:02but I don't search s book give me a

1:10:04break who did that once your checkbook

1:10:07what are you a Boeing engineer yeah come

1:10:10on they get this guy over here I hadn't

1:10:11i balanced the checkbook since uh since

1:10:14nevermind was out I I got it I got a

1:10:16message on facebook the other day from a

1:10:21gal that I had not thought of in a long

1:10:23long time who was married to a friend of

1:10:26mine and it was not a private message it

1:10:29was just a post on my page shot on your

1:10:32wall Jon on my wall this stuff walls on

1:10:35facebook I'm not sure I go there once a

1:10:37week but there's a post on my wall and

1:10:39it said hey John I found these old tapes

1:10:43in some guy was clearing out his

1:10:46basement so he didn't say some guy he

1:10:49said Chris was cleaning out his basement

1:10:51and he found these tapes because he's

1:10:54moving to Uzbekistan and he brought them

1:10:57by my house and I have them

1:10:59and I I still have an a damn machine

1:11:02that I dug up out of the basement and I

1:11:04listened to the tapes and I think you

1:11:06would like them I don't know how to use

1:11:10email all right and what did he say I

1:11:14don't know so he was writing from his

1:11:18wife's account soon and he said call me

1:11:23and he just put his phone number out

1:11:25there on my page 44 God and everybody to

1:11:28see and this guy is a is a fellow like a

1:11:33like a maybe a senior fellow or some

1:11:37kind of fellow an associate fellow at

1:11:40bowen like he sits at Boeing all day in

1:11:44designs he thinks my thoughts hyperspace

1:11:47airplanes and stuff and he doesn't know

1:11:50how to communicate with me anyway other

1:11:52than by using his wife's facebook

1:11:54account to post on my wall and put his

1:11:57phone number there what like he he's

1:11:59like I don't know how to text I don't

1:12:01know how to private message I don't know

1:12:03how to do any of these things like he

1:12:05works deeply embedded in technology as

1:12:09an engineer says his wife is his like

1:12:11tech rabbi he whoa that's sick of

1:12:15interesting because he's siloed over

1:12:17here in this crazy autocad world and he

1:12:22never ever ever did the like internet

1:12:25thing but i mean on the this is a little

1:12:27flimsy but it feels like a veteran auto

1:12:31mechanic who doesn't know how to drive

1:12:32mm-hmm you know well you know he doesn't

1:12:37he lives across the street from the plan

1:12:38he never needed to learn how to drive

1:12:40that's good for you I mean that we think

1:12:43of the internet as being computers and

1:12:46science but you remember that moment in

1:12:491994 I mean I remember when my friend

1:12:52Phil Ellis was like I'm on the internet

1:12:53we were like what's that he said well

1:12:56watch okay I'm gonna send this myth this

1:12:59message to a guy in Georgia and when we

1:13:02come back here in six hours that'll be a

1:13:04reply from him and we were like no get

1:13:08out of here and we all stood around and

1:13:10watch these two guys have this super

1:13:11boring converse

1:13:12that laughs you know over the course of

1:13:14weeks it was like that's amazing but but

1:13:17my friend Ian did not find it that

1:13:19amazing and so didn't pursue it and I

1:13:22think probably within Boeing there's

1:13:24your even dis incentivized to log on to

1:13:28the outside world from inside your ear

1:13:32secrétaire point that's interesting

1:13:34yeah okay like you're in the skiff right

1:13:37yeah you're in the skiff yeah you're in

1:13:39there with your you're with your

1:13:41building blocks and you're building

1:13:42super space aircraft button if you need

1:13:44to i mean i bet you those guys still

1:13:47wheel a cart down to the library mm-hmm

1:13:50like the boeing library may pull big

1:13:52dusty tomes off the wall and what they

1:13:54do I hope they do that's a nice image

1:13:56there are people there that worked at

1:13:58Boeing for 50 years from a time when

1:14:01they were building airplanes out of

1:14:03balsa wood well all by way of saying

1:14:07when I first SAT the tapes before he

1:14:10goes to was it was Becca Stan well so

1:14:13though this is the other thing this guy

1:14:15Chris that he's talking about Oh Chris

1:14:18found these tapes and he brought him

1:14:19over I'm like Chris who are you talking

1:14:23about Ian I haven't talked to you in 20

1:14:26years hydro Chris's mm-hmm and then i

1:14:29SAT and thought and I was like a dad

1:14:31tapes a tad tapes Chris Chris ah chris

1:14:36is the guy with the rooster and the El

1:14:39Camino you're kidding Chris was rooster

1:14:43El Camino dude who has the a dat tapes

1:14:47right in his basement for all this time

1:14:51starting together ever since rooster El

1:14:53Camino days yeah and Ian in talks about

1:14:58him like he's somebody that he and I

1:15:00were just chatting about I'm the only

1:15:02person who doesn't remember yet let

1:15:06alone talk to everyone they ever knew

1:15:08cuz I was like oh yeah an old Chris I'm

1:15:09like what what Chris when who like I

1:15:13feel like yes you and I have met but

1:15:14whoo-hoo and you still talk and like

1:15:17what do you get wings it's like I feel

1:15:19so out of the loop well yeah and IAM

1:15:21doesn't even know how to use computers

1:15:23or his own phone how is he still in

1:15:26touch

1:15:26with Chris like Chris el camino del

1:15:31Camino rooster yeah how are they how is

1:15:34how did Chris get in touch with him like

1:15:36if Chris was thinking oh somebody from

1:15:39the bun family players needs to come to

1:15:41get these tapes like he would presumably

1:15:45be able to find me pretty easily but no

1:15:48it's ian ian is his point of contact and

1:15:50it makes it all the more amazing that

1:15:51the connection happened well so i am

1:15:55gonna figure out a way to be a tap

1:15:58multi-tracks of the blood family players

1:16:00playing you know a protic proto versions

1:16:04of love our like weird weird tunes weird

1:16:07tracks mmm another another another big

1:16:11pile and media for John yeah there it is

1:16:13what's what I need is a bunch of boxes

1:16:15of a duct tapes and all the end of da

1:16:17dat machines that he is like well while

1:16:18you're here why don't you just take all

1:16:20this stuff but remember carousels

1:16:21somewhere out there I think in in my

1:16:29office now is a box that has I swear to

1:16:33you my 64k IBM PC what and somewhere

1:16:37there is a box of floppy disks and what

1:16:44what got me off on this was after i did

1:16:47a couple of reports for school on this

1:16:49and printed them out on my little dot

1:16:52matrix printer i was sitting in the

1:16:54basement one night working on something

1:16:56and i closed it and i opened a new file

1:16:59and i started typing a sex story i was

1:17:04like she came in to the room and he was

1:17:07there and there was a red Corvette

1:17:09parked in the driveway and they laura

1:17:11deluxe Lord delights and he took off his

1:17:16elaborate hat and he's fine it's peachy

1:17:22showed her boob and he he was very very

1:17:27very interested in her boob and looked

1:17:30at it very closely and she let him and

1:17:33then she didn't seem to mind and I was

1:17:37so

1:17:38I was so turned on by my own writing as

1:17:41I was putting it down like oh my god

1:17:43this is a lot teenagers brain is the

1:17:46biggest sex organ yeah and I couldn't

1:17:48like now I can't even put myself into I

1:17:51mean I don't know I haven't sat at my

1:17:52computer for a long time and been like

1:17:53her boobs worse you could see them and

1:17:57she didn't care they were both there

1:17:59good to see him and she said look at

1:18:03those and I was like mad and I took my

1:18:06big hat off and I say I'm gonna just do

1:18:10that then may I hang up your cape she

1:18:13said girlishly and then her dragon her

1:18:17pet dragon wet her I know nothing like

1:18:20me don't ya DNA she said cook Ashley she

1:18:27was dressed like the girl on the cover

1:18:29of heavy metal the movies and then she

1:18:31had a boob out and then the other boob

1:18:33yeah two of them haha that's hot so and

1:18:39the reason I think I still have that 64k

1:18:41IBM pc with dual disc drives is that at

1:18:44some point because I used it all the way

1:18:45through college other kids had computers

1:18:48that had color screens and uh if not

1:18:53mice then we have some kind of motion

1:18:57gesturing device yeah you get that nice

1:18:59laptop with a little red nipple hunted a

1:19:01lot of people had those yeah and I still

1:19:03had this this computer 64 entire k and

1:19:06we had we were way ahead of the curve in

1:19:09nineteen eighty or 81 because we got the

1:19:12orange colored screen instead of the

1:19:14green screen oh nice I still have this

1:19:18stuff and I think at some point in 95 my

1:19:21mom said well that's probably gonna be

1:19:23worth money someday and I said I don't

1:19:25think so mom it's covered with Rainier

1:19:27beer stickers it's not like it's not a

1:19:30it's not pristine she was like oh you

1:19:33know that's what we said about the 56

1:19:35Chrysler 300 I was like hmm but anyway I

1:19:40still have it if anybody's interested

1:19:41contact me CZ info at the long winters

1:19:46com yep yeah that's the policy two in

1:19:49one out

1:19:50boobs all right