0:00:00we need more investigative journalism
0:00:02known actually I mean with the exception
0:00:03of I guess 9to5 mac and Bloomberg
0:00:07because they got what's-his-name like
0:00:09who's out there digging through
0:00:10dumpsters to find out what the new Mac
0:00:12Pro is going to be let's get some
0:00:13journalism old fashion journalism on
0:00:15this I think first Apple needs to figure
0:00:18out what the new Mac Pro suppose yeah
0:00:19well you know if you dig through
0:00:20dumpsters and find out like you know too
0:00:23bad they don't use paper anymore but
0:00:24like find out there just now having
0:00:26meetings about what they might do about
0:00:27this like you can get time lines on it
0:00:29but anyway as time passes and we wait
0:00:31for wec to appear things could leak
0:00:33let's you know let's find stuff out
0:00:36let's get some engineers drunk let's
0:00:38find out some answers yeah because that
0:00:40always works all that gets you as a
0:00:42pre-release iphone yeah that's the only
0:00:44thing that works yeah I mean I can spoil
0:00:46it for you right now John you're not
0:00:48going to know until like it launches the
0:00:51two things that you're going to complain
0:00:52about and commit yourself not to buy it
0:00:54about you're not gonna know the price
0:00:55ain't not going to know the GPU choice
0:00:57ah the GPU choice could leak like if
0:01:00they're using nvidia i feel like i could
0:01:01leak right and if they are using nvidia
0:01:03they're going to be they're going to be
0:01:04using pascal it might leak that they're
0:01:06using in video but it wouldn't it
0:01:07wouldn't leak like which one they're
0:01:09using you know that it would leak that
0:01:10are using pascal architecture would just
0:01:12be a question of like which part but
0:01:14like even that would be enough like I
0:01:15said you know to be exciting it's been
0:01:20so long since we talked a lot has
0:01:23happened in the news this week of april
0:01:25eighth or ninth or whatever right you
0:01:29know today as we talk has obviously got
0:01:31to be april 12 2017 of course this but
0:01:35rather than talk about the exciting news
0:01:38that has happened this week we thought
0:01:40we'd talk more about what has happened
0:01:42say early last week maybe before april
0:01:46sixth indeed yeah we thought we'd just
0:01:49do a recap because why wouldn't we and
0:01:51and so here we are and so that that
0:01:55amazing news about nintendo that
0:01:57happened you know just a couple of days
0:01:59ago on the 10th through the 11th we're
0:02:01going to save that for next week the
0:02:03good news is we've covered everything
0:02:04that we could possibly cover about the
0:02:05mac pro so we don't have to talk about
0:02:06it until it comes out in 2019 so let's
0:02:09talk about some other things do we
0:02:10really have no follow-up trademark
0:02:13about the mac bro that Casey get through
0:02:15his little song and dance don't worry
0:02:17don't you worry all right I can't even
0:02:23take this seriously because I know that
0:02:24I'll be murdered if I don't bring up Mac
0:02:26Pro stuff so here we go kids that crunch
0:02:31the things I do for you to I hope you
0:02:33appreciate me I'm so sorry Casey I'm
0:02:36just so sorry for you for during this
0:02:38time I know this is this is a very
0:02:41difficult time to be on on our podcast
0:02:44during Mac for a week and back for a
0:02:47week a week right you should be me it's
0:02:50Mac Pro's ear yeah i'm going to call
0:02:53this the the year of mac pro and we're
0:02:55just going to keep calling it the year
0:02:56of mac pro until they release one right
0:02:58which might be a whole other year right
0:02:59uh anyway all right let's do a little
0:03:02follow-up about the mac pro and then
0:03:04hopefully we can move on techcrunch matt
0:03:07pans reno and team at techcrunch have
0:03:10posted the full transcript of their
0:03:12meeting i guess he recorded it by some
0:03:14mechanism and had hammer one of his
0:03:17people go ahead and transcribe it also
0:03:20we will put that in the show notes i've
0:03:22yet to have a chance to even look at it
0:03:24there are definitely parts as much as I
0:03:26snark that um that I that I think are
0:03:28interesting that I'd like to read a
0:03:29little more about but I have another
0:03:30chance yet so you can check that out in
0:03:33the show notes is that really the only
0:03:36Mac Pro follow because how many other
0:03:38topic I see the topic is anyway we'll
0:03:40get to it on the transcript I read the
0:03:43whole transcript and of course surprise
0:03:45surprise the you know the people they
0:03:47had their reporting on it did a good job
0:03:49reporting on it like there's any
0:03:51important information in the transcript
0:03:53that you're missing you can read it just
0:03:54to get a flavor of what they said and
0:03:56stuff like that but this it was well
0:03:59covered but you know it's not as if they
0:04:01left out of major sections that were
0:04:02important the only fun thing about the
0:04:05transcript as you can see since it's a
0:04:06fairly faithful transcript I would
0:04:08imagine because it's got all people's
0:04:09false starts and weird sentence
0:04:11structures and stuff it's just what
0:04:13happens when people speak you can see
0:04:17occasionally people getting their
0:04:21raining in their instincts one
0:04:22particular instance is a Craig federighi
0:04:24talking about
0:04:25you know the old Mac Pro and the
0:04:28architecture with the tube in the
0:04:29heating and you know how it was
0:04:31difficult to put different components
0:04:34and everything and so he talks about all
0:04:35of that and then he said how they really
0:04:39put a lot of energy behind that design
0:04:41and his the next bit is in retrospect
0:04:43that was dot dot dot and he's about to
0:04:47say in retrospect that was it that was a
0:04:48mistake that was the right idea that was
0:04:50not the right thing to do but he doesn't
0:04:52say that because he's disciplined he
0:04:54gets into the sentence for that he is
0:04:55abort abort in retrospect that was new
0:04:58sentence while that system is going to
0:04:59be fantastic for a huge number of
0:05:01customers we want to do more there you
0:05:03go and fill smiles next to us it's a
0:05:05good job Greggy almost you almost landed
0:05:06in it there but anyway they're very
0:05:09disciplined with their message Craig
0:05:12still manages to be funny and witty
0:05:13within the bounds of being disciplined
0:05:16for PR and Phyllis is Phyllis fell he's
0:05:20the guy we know and love so if if you
0:05:23have seen a lot of presentations with
0:05:25the people who are at this meeting then
0:05:28you will definitely get the flavor of
0:05:29them just reading the transcript and I
0:05:31don't know much about John Curtis I'm
0:05:33not sure I've ever seen him on stage but
0:05:34he's the other guy fair enough alright
0:05:38moving on that's then just like that
0:05:39we're done with Mac Pro right kids right
0:05:41okay so work alone so somebody that
0:05:44listen star show had a conversation with
0:05:46the support team at work flow and they
0:05:50received the following email which was
0:05:53then forwarded on to us the person at
0:05:55work flow said you know blah blah blah
0:05:58fix for your problem blah blah blah but
0:06:01just so you know we have no further
0:06:03planned updates for workflow that being
0:06:06said we are continuing to support
0:06:08workflows current functionality have no
0:06:09plans to end supports let me know if you
0:06:11run across any buds or crashes cue the
0:06:14sad trombone here Marco womp womp yeah I
0:06:18mean to be honest like you know when we
0:06:20when workflow was acquired and we did
0:06:22mention like you know they they might
0:06:24just let it die or kill it outright and
0:06:27you know have have the staff work on
0:06:29other stuff built into iOS that was kind
0:06:31of the the long term idea that was most
0:06:33likely to happen I will admit I did not
0:06:36foresee them
0:06:38because of the way it was bought and
0:06:41because of the messaging around the time
0:06:42that it was bought and and what they
0:06:44told the users I did not foresee them
0:06:47totally stopping all updates to the app
0:06:50right now or at least like I think what
0:06:52what what this the other way this reads
0:06:54it's like they might do bug fix updates
0:06:57but that's it like no new features are
0:06:59coming to work flow and that is
0:07:02unfortunate but i guess not a huge
0:07:06surprise you know because like that's
0:07:08that's what happens with you know this
0:07:09was clearly an aqua hire you know in the
0:07:13sense that Apple wanted the staff more
0:07:15than the product and whether that was to
0:07:17make the staff work on something boring
0:07:19like you know Mail app probably not it
0:07:22was probably to have the staff work on
0:07:23workflow like functionality you know the
0:07:26automation technologies for iOS that you
0:07:28know that's that's my guess but the fact
0:07:32is if you're a workflow user this
0:07:33doesn't make it any easier to take that
0:07:35basically workflow is effectively dead
0:07:39in in the sense that no one will really
0:07:41be working on it anymore unless they
0:07:44want to fix some bugs for some reason
0:07:46but that's about it so that that is
0:07:48pretty unfortunate for workflow users
0:07:49and i hope i hope that in the end this
0:07:52will prove worth it you know like in in
0:07:55in many aqua hires what happens is the
0:07:59product gets shut down the team goes to
0:08:01work on something similar within the
0:08:02bigger acquiring company and sometimes
0:08:05that sees the light of day and sometimes
0:08:07it doesn't or sometimes what what
0:08:09eventually comes out of that from the
0:08:10bigger company is not nearly as good as
0:08:12the acquired app was and it's kind of a
0:08:16crapshoot you don't really know so I I
0:08:17hope that this will lead to better stuff
0:08:20in iOS that will replace the need for
0:08:22workflow for the people who use it today
0:08:24but honestly you know that's not the
0:08:27most likely outcome the most likely
0:08:29outcome is iOS stove moves forward a
0:08:32little bit you know we get some part of
0:08:36this in a future version of iOS and then
0:08:40maybe maybe you know the original staff
0:08:42who created it goes to work on other
0:08:44things with an apple or maybe after a
0:08:45few years they got unhappy and leave and
0:08:46do something else that's that kind of
0:08:49thing is more likely to happen
0:08:51then then iOS gaining complete
0:08:55functionality like workflow or even
0:08:57something close to it I tell you I I
0:09:01place much higher odds on workflow being
0:09:05an apple-branded application for some
0:09:07period of time you know like that it
0:09:09would be brought into the fold workflow
0:09:11by Apple as a downloadable thing on the
0:09:14App Store possibly bundled with the
0:09:16future Wes update wild you know while
0:09:18they worked on the next integration of
0:09:20you know and just this is pretty quick
0:09:22it wasn't like you said the the press
0:09:24releases and then very shortly after
0:09:27yeah we're not doing that in what's been
0:09:29like 10 days like it has not been very
0:09:31long yes at times hi I don't know I mean
0:09:34I don't know what to make of all this
0:09:36it's just gonna be interesting watching
0:09:39Mike have to become a real true
0:09:42honest-to-goodness programmer and
0:09:43writing Python easter spells cause he's
0:09:45gonna be he's gonna have no other choice
0:09:46so Mike welcome to our world well no cuz
0:09:49workflow will keep working like I think
0:09:51they will keep it working it's just like
0:09:53I've been flowing you know well yeah
0:09:55well what are were their major features
0:09:57that people want add to work for like
0:09:58you can you can add workflows people can
0:10:01continue to do that and share and
0:10:02distribute those isn't the workflow app
0:10:04is just the engine so I feel like it
0:10:06should last people until something new
0:10:10comes but so that that's a good outcome
0:10:12but if you were if you were really
0:10:13excited about the engine gaining
0:10:15features then you're sad well so you
0:10:17know what if you know in in the past I
0:10:20remember like what extensions came out
0:10:21and I think even sometime last year for
0:10:23some reason I've discussed on this show
0:10:25how I think the future of you are of URL
0:10:29scheme usage on iOS is probably limited
0:10:32because you know now Apple has things
0:10:34like universal links which replace a lot
0:10:37of the need for URL schemes for like
0:10:39average juices and X callback URL and
0:10:42things like that are used only by a
0:10:45narrow amount of power users for like
0:10:48legitimate purposes and there's lots of
0:10:50abuses that they're used for and Apple
0:10:53has slowly clamped down that over time
0:10:55to the degree that they can with various
0:10:58iOS changes like having to declare your
0:11:00URL schemes that you that you query for
0:11:02in your info type plist file and stuff
0:11:04like that
0:11:04but it's it's no real secret that Apple
0:11:08is not a huge fan of URL schemes being
0:11:10used for purposes like this that i would
0:11:13guess Apple probably wants to get rid of
0:11:14them and you know make them actually
0:11:15impossible for various privacy and
0:11:18security reasons which is completely
0:11:20reasonable so it would not surprise me
0:11:22at all if you know say I maybe not iOS
0:11:2611 but maybe iOS 12 maybe end support
0:11:30for calling other apps via openurl and
0:11:34can open URL and at that point workflow
0:11:38would you know they're there are still
0:11:39other features of workflow as it exists
0:11:41today it could do other things but that
0:11:44would lop off such a big portion of what
0:11:46it could do that I think that would
0:11:48effectively kill the app and hopefully
0:11:51by the time Apple does something like
0:11:52that if they're going to do something
0:11:53like that hopefully they would have some
0:11:55kind of replacement in mind like maybe
0:11:57whatever the workflow staff is working
0:11:59on an apple now I hope that's how it
0:12:02would go but the thing is with big
0:12:03companies and with acquisitions you
0:12:05don't know that's gonna it's actually
0:12:06gonna go that way like that could be
0:12:08everyone's intention and plan now but at
0:12:11big companies things change you know in
0:12:13six months there something else might be
0:12:15a bigger priority they might be
0:12:16reassigned to work on that and this
0:12:18project just doesn't continue or
0:12:20anything like that I mean this is kind
0:12:21of just a side effect of the the
0:12:25economy's going on here you know if you
0:12:29know like I had a early on in insta
0:12:32papers days I had a couple of early
0:12:34discussions about aqua hires companies
0:12:38you know some some of the big tech
0:12:39companies wanting to buy Instapaper for
0:12:42some relatively insignificant amount in
0:12:45order to get me to come work for them
0:12:47and these conversations always stopped
0:12:49pretty early on because at that time is
0:12:52people was making very good money
0:12:54because it was selling for like ten
0:12:56bucks and then later five bucks in the
0:12:58app store and it was selling pretty well
0:12:59and so whenever I would whenever we get
0:13:03to them to the money part of the early
0:13:06conversations it would very quickly end
0:13:07the conversations because it was like
0:13:09well it for me to stop making this money
0:13:11from this app you're going to have to
0:13:12pay at least X for it and that was more
0:13:15than they were willing to pay to just
0:13:17get some engineer to come work for
0:13:18and the problem is that as the app
0:13:22economy has gotten worse and as the the
0:13:26you know big handful of tech companies
0:13:29have gotten bigger and have had more
0:13:31money and have even tighter competition
0:13:34for engineering talent the reishi like
0:13:36the the economics of this have shifted
0:13:38so much so that it is very hard for most
0:13:42app developers to turn down a decent
0:13:45aqua hire deal today because most apps
0:13:48are not making that much money anymore
0:13:51and these companies can now afford to
0:13:53pay a lot for good engineering talent
0:13:55and they would rather and they're soaked
0:13:58there's so much competition for that
0:13:59they would rather do that then then you
0:14:03know let these apps continue I guess and
0:14:05so the and again like as the developers
0:14:07of these apps you can't really fault
0:14:08them because if someone comes around
0:14:10offering them like you know ten times
0:14:12what they're making now per year in an
0:14:14upfront some to buy their app and then
0:14:16oh you'll also have a nice stable job
0:14:19with us instead of having to rely on the
0:14:21ups and downs of your apps on the App
0:14:22Store I don't blame developers at all
0:14:24for taking those offers they you know in
0:14:26many ways like well you can't really say
0:14:28no to to some of these offers because
0:14:29they're so good and the only way this is
0:14:31ever going to change is if the economics
0:14:33of of app development change such that
0:14:36it is more worthwhile for people to keep
0:14:38their apps and not sell them and not
0:14:40take jobs somewhere else then to do that
0:14:43but I don't see that happening in the
0:14:45near future right if anything I see
0:14:47things going the other direction just
0:14:49assume the work will developers have
0:14:50gotten to work on the Mac Pro it's a
0:14:52safe bet rent no because apparently the
0:14:55Mac Pro is only started a week ago and
0:14:56they they went there 10 days ago we're
0:14:58getting to that we'll get to it oh my
0:15:01word you guys I didn't even start my
0:15:03holiday party yet this is gonna be a
0:15:04long show for me probably should we were
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0:17:07John about a possible explanation for
0:17:09increased free space with a PFS on 10.3
0:17:12if you please continuing the streak of a
0:17:15PFS follow-up and what are we on like
0:17:17five shows in a row now I don't know
0:17:19we're keeping the streak alive some show
0:17:23in the past we talked about people
0:17:25upgrading to iOS 10.3 and saying hey I
0:17:27have more free space available on my iOS
0:17:30device now and you know that could have
0:17:33been clearing caches or just rebooting
0:17:35or other things related to the upgrade
0:17:37and not related to the file system
0:17:38itself I heard one theory that I thought
0:17:40was worth pondering it has to do with a
0:17:44PFS space sharing
0:17:46I thought you guys remember what that is
0:17:48because I think your eyes glad we're
0:17:50going to talk about a PFS but yep I do
0:17:52hey it's basically copy-on-write right
0:17:54no no it's the that's one of the
0:17:56features but the thing they caught refer
0:17:58to a space sharing is well is this the
0:18:00thing where you can have like two
0:18:01different partitions that both kind of
0:18:02share some space and so it's kind of
0:18:04like whoever fills the first gets to
0:18:06keep it exactly so you got a one gig
0:18:09disk and you can put two partitions on
0:18:10it you can put 21 gig partitions on it
0:18:12you're like how can you put 21 gig
0:18:14partitions on a one gig disk can't you
0:18:15put two partitions that are like 500 and
0:18:17500 + 250 or 750 how can you have 21 gig
0:18:21partitions that makes no sense as
0:18:22exactly how space sharing works that I
0:18:24figure with the terms are they call it a
0:18:25container or something and within the
0:18:27container you could have separate
0:18:28volumes and they share that space and
0:18:30like Marco said whoever fills it first
0:18:32wins right and that produces weird weird
0:18:35results for saying how much free space
0:18:37you have any way so this theory goes
0:18:40that iOS has I don't know if this is
0:18:42true maybe Marco does although I've
0:18:44heard it before that as to places where
0:18:47put stuff one is sort of the OS
0:18:49partition and one is the user space
0:18:51partition and they are separate from
0:18:52each other does that sound familiar
0:18:53Marco honestly I've never looked that
0:18:55low level at the OS that's a question
0:18:57for seat for Steve trout and Smith not
0:18:58me yeah anyway um the idea is that yeah
0:19:02there's an arrangement that has been
0:19:03there for a while but with a PFS and
0:19:05space sharing it changes the way free
0:19:07space is reported and that the increase
0:19:10in free space you're seeing is related
0:19:12to that now I tried to think through
0:19:13this to say well how does that work
0:19:15exactly what would that do and what you
0:19:16know having the notes your experiments
0:19:19required unfortunately because we just
0:19:20record four days ago I have not done
0:19:21these experiments but changing the way
0:19:25space is both shared and reported with
0:19:27the file system could possibly account
0:19:29for discrepancies in what is reported in
0:19:32the u.s. you would think that apple
0:19:33would work this out but you know in that
0:19:36example I just gave what is the right
0:19:38thing to do if you have 21 gig
0:19:40partitions on a one gig disk and you ask
0:19:43one of them how much free space it's
0:19:44going to say I have one gig available
0:19:45and the ass the other one it's going to
0:19:46say I have one gig available that's kind
0:19:48of the truth because there's nothing in
0:19:50the disk that both technically do have
0:19:51one gig available but if they were to
0:19:53both start filling really fast you're
0:19:55not going to fit one gig into each one
0:19:56of those things so now you have like
0:19:58smartass file systems now
0:19:59like well technically I have one gig
0:20:01available I didn't lie to you right you
0:20:03could put what you could put one gig be
0:20:05as long as you put nothing in any of the
0:20:06other partitions that are sharing the
0:20:08same space yeah anyway I I really you
0:20:12know i wish i had more information to
0:20:13provide but i just want to bring up
0:20:14space sharing to remind people that
0:20:16space sharing a pms is the thing and
0:20:17it's weird and it's this is one of those
0:20:19things where it's difficult from user
0:20:20interface perspective to determine what
0:20:22is the right thing to do it's not like
0:20:23oh you just need to update your
0:20:24operating system to report to understand
0:20:27a PFS and report the right thing
0:20:28people's mental model of how space works
0:20:30on disks does not match how a PFS file
0:20:32you know space sharing works so i don't
0:20:35know what they're going to do on mac OS
0:20:36iOS you don't this doesn't manifest in
0:20:39any way that you can see except perhaps
0:20:40in this free space thing but further
0:20:43news as events warrant maybe next week i
0:20:45will have some experiments and next week
0:20:47is actually two weeks from now oh
0:20:48goodness alright fair enough can we talk
0:20:54about t-shirts because we've had a
0:20:57little bit of agita with our t-shirt
0:20:59rolled out this year so you guys have
0:21:02been generous enough to spend most of
0:21:04your time doing this I have been
0:21:06completely swamped in all aspects of
0:21:09life this week so take me through the
0:21:11pain and suffering that you've gone
0:21:13through to bring t-shirts to our lovely
0:21:14listeners I don't want to go through the
0:21:16pain and suffering but I do want to say
0:21:18that as usual every time we do a t-shirt
0:21:20launch there's something that's weird or
0:21:21wrong and hot about it and we work it
0:21:23out this time it was about mostly about
0:21:26size availability where as far as we're
0:21:29able to determine we had no visibility
0:21:30into what sizes will be available until
0:21:32after we launch it and in that and then
0:21:35when we launched it like the you can go
0:21:38to the size pop-up menu like I pick the
0:21:40shirk that I want now I need to pick my
0:21:41size and you will see all the sizes
0:21:43listed all the sizes that we could see
0:21:45before lunch we can see this shirt is
0:21:46available from extra small to 3x L right
0:21:48and then we launched it and you go to
0:21:51the shirt and you see that pop-up menu
0:21:52with those sizes in it but only two of
0:21:54them would be selectable if I usually
0:21:56extra small and some other weird size
0:21:57like none of the common sizes would be
0:21:59available to you and that's bad we want
0:22:02the shirt to be available in all sizes
0:22:03so what we had to do for a lot of the
0:22:06shirts is sort of delete or end the
0:22:09campaigns which by the way some people
0:22:11bought shirts and those campaigns and my
0:22:12understanding is they
0:22:13we'll get delivered it is kind of weird
0:22:14that you you were the one of the two or
0:22:16three lucky people who got that shirt
0:22:17before we frantically deleted it and
0:22:19you're sure might be titled ATP shirt
0:22:21delete me in the emails that you get a
0:22:22better if you get an email and it says
0:22:24delete me that's us trying to keep track
0:22:26of which ones are the old bad ones and
0:22:28which ones are the new good ones and
0:22:30anyway and we replace them with
0:22:32identical-looking shirts but with shirts
0:22:34from a different vendor who had stock in
0:22:36all sizes and we've been working on that
0:22:38working with teespring to get more size
0:22:40it's available and recreating them and
0:22:42so on and so forth all this is to say
0:22:44that have you tried to buy a shirt
0:22:45because you heard the show last week or
0:22:48whenever and you went there and you
0:22:50couldn't find the shirt in the size you
0:22:52wanted or the shirt wasn't available in
0:22:54any sizes which was true or some cases
0:22:56like the purple one that I really loved
0:22:57was literally available in 0 sizes like
0:22:59you could no one could order it because
0:23:00you could not select any sizes at all it
0:23:03would let you hit by now and then it's a
0:23:04please pick your size and they were all
0:23:05disabled so that's fixed you get your
0:23:08purple shirts now we added a few shirts
0:23:11to be larger sizes because some of the
0:23:12other shirts only went up to 2 XL and
0:23:14now we have three XL and I think up to
0:23:165xl on the European one so and also
0:23:20finally teespring is told us that as
0:23:22stock comes in four different sizes and
0:23:25different colors those sizes will become
0:23:28available so technically if you just
0:23:31want to you know wait and check back
0:23:33next week or something even if the size
0:23:35isn't available right now maybe it will
0:23:36become available so we apologize for
0:23:38this it's difficult we'll try to do
0:23:42better next year as always every year we
0:23:44have to have something last year it was
0:23:45really expensive shipping outside the US
0:23:47this year we do not have super duper
0:23:49expensive shipping outside the US which
0:23:50is good but we have some size issues so
0:23:53thank you to everybody who's bought
0:23:55shirts and good luck out there yeah we
0:23:58you know last year we had to apologize
0:24:00for the expensive international shipping
0:24:02and this year we're having to apologize
0:24:03for some of these operational issues and
0:24:05we we are sorry that we have to deal
0:24:07with this and you have to deal with this
0:24:08the reality is that printing and
0:24:11shipping shirts all over the world is
0:24:13complicated and you know we every vendor
0:24:17who does it has different trade-offs
0:24:18we've now tried you know two of the
0:24:20major vendors and each one has strengths
0:24:23and weaknesses and you know we've chosen
0:24:25a different set of trade-offs this year
0:24:26saal
0:24:26but we have not yet found a perfect
0:24:29solution and we hope in the future that
0:24:31one materializes or that we can tweak
0:24:34things a little bit better but in the
0:24:35meantime we're sorry please buy our
0:24:37shirts now thank you one more thing we
0:24:40are thinking about this is not yet
0:24:42happened but the thing that may happen
0:24:43is that you may get your shirts earlier
0:24:45than you would expect we had said all
0:24:47these things to be like a time-limited
0:24:48campaign that we're going to end about
0:24:4920 days from now we're still going to
0:24:51end it that's still going to happen so
0:24:52buy your shirts because we're going to
0:24:53end this thing right but during the time
0:24:56that it is running there is some
0:24:57potential not a sure thing that your
0:24:59church could ship like shortly after you
0:25:02are them instead of having everybody
0:25:04wait till the end of the 20 days and
0:25:05then all the shirts go out at once and
0:25:06the reason we're thinking about that is
0:25:08it it gives you more time to hopefully
0:25:10get your shirt in time for ww see if
0:25:12you're coming or so you don't have to
0:25:13wait so long or if their issues with it
0:25:15you know anyway that's why we're
0:25:17thinking about that and that may be a
0:25:18thing so if your shirt suddenly arrives
0:25:20and you didn't expect over 20 days don't
0:25:22be surprised so apples clips app came
0:25:26out today and I think we should spend a
0:25:28lot of time talking about that because
0:25:30it's my turn to talk about something
0:25:31that I want to talk about didn't I put
0:25:33that in there way way down below all
0:25:35this cool new Mac Pro stuff well guess
0:25:37what buddy it just got escalated and
0:25:41actually I don't have too much to say if
0:25:43I'm really honest with you so this is
0:25:44only going to take a moment but Clips
0:25:46came out today I played with it very
0:25:48very very briefly and it's pretty cool I
0:25:51like the I don't know what the official
0:25:54term for it is but the transcribe what
0:25:56you're saying as you're saying it
0:25:59feature so you can turn on a like text
0:26:04mode or it's a little speech bubble and
0:26:06as you record speech will or your speech
0:26:10will appear on screen so you know you
0:26:12can hold to record and then as you talk
0:26:15you can make it show the words that
0:26:18you're speaking I just did that as we
0:26:20were recording as I was saying those
0:26:22words and it says honda accord instead
0:26:26of hold while you record so this is
0:26:27already going well I mean you know
0:26:30automated transcription is still a very
0:26:33very long way away from being good
0:26:36reliably like even you know we you know
0:26:39we we can criticize Apple for
0:26:40like not being good at some of these
0:26:41things sometimes but nobody can do this
0:26:43very well yet you know even like the
0:26:45fancy Google algorithms that do YouTube
0:26:48transcription and everything like even
0:26:50they are pretty bad at this so it's
0:26:53going to be a fun little thing finding
0:26:55like you know funny mistranslation to
0:26:56people's videos sometimes and otherwise
0:26:59it's a cool idea it's a cool use of
0:27:01technology but yeah it's going to be
0:27:03pretty imperfect for possibly ever if
0:27:07not a long time it's going to make
0:27:08people enunciate that's what it's going
0:27:10to do I tried that feature as well
0:27:11because I was excited to see if I could
0:27:13do the thing that I talked about when we
0:27:15first talked about clips which is make
0:27:18the words appear over the video with
0:27:20with a cadence with the purpose like say
0:27:22things in a certain way and emphasize
0:27:24certain things to have the words appear
0:27:25with that rhythm and the lag seem to be
0:27:28so big I'm not quite sure why whether
0:27:30it's the you know rendering it on top of
0:27:31the video versus understanding the
0:27:33speech or whatever but the lag was so
0:27:35much worse than for example when you
0:27:37talk to one of Google now or the hell
0:27:39they call it hard work where it shows
0:27:41your words in real time or even Siri
0:27:42these days but Google now was the first
0:27:44one I remember being startled by exactly
0:27:46how fast the words were appearing as I
0:27:47spoke them that there wasn't a delay
0:27:49that it wasn't like let me just think
0:27:50about what you just said and make it
0:27:52appear that it seemed to follow my
0:27:53cadence and clips clips lags I found it
0:27:57difficult even when trying to emphasize
0:27:59in a very exaggerated rhythm to get that
0:28:02rhythm to manifest in the video so oh
0:28:04well the people using real video editors
0:28:06can continue to dominate in the perfect
0:28:09timing of their word appearances and
0:28:11transitions but the meantime yeah it is
0:28:13a cool app and the effects are really
0:28:15neat and it makes it so easy to do
0:28:17something you don't need any expertise
0:28:19in any kind of video editing or
0:28:20production you just need to be able to
0:28:22tap things on the screen and hold your
0:28:24finger on a giant red button and you
0:28:26will make cool videos yeah i like i said
0:28:29i only played with it briefly but really
0:28:30really impressed with what I've seen so
0:28:32far I also really like I think this was
0:28:35covered on connected recently I forget
0:28:38where I heard it but um rather than
0:28:41rather than Apple trying to make their
0:28:44own social network and do something
0:28:45ridiculous like that they're actually
0:28:46just embracing other social networks so
0:28:50this is an app to pipe your video into
0:28:53other
0:28:54faces which i think is really smart did
0:28:56you see her that I'm connected what did
0:28:58we talk about it it's fine damn fine
0:29:00it's like you thought you're on the show
0:29:02with me when I said that same thing but
0:29:04it's fine you can cite connected it's
0:29:06all a blur monette event follow-up Casey
0:29:08yeah you know they did it's it's weird
0:29:10we appropriated it but it was all that I
0:29:11actually heard that from some wasn't
0:29:13connected with what was it bonanza that
0:29:14did the the thing with like the echo and
0:29:16reverb good god no that was that was
0:29:19either the prompter connected all right
0:29:20well anyway someone wrote me to say I
0:29:23totally thought they invented it because
0:29:24they had a cool sound effect follow
0:29:25anyway they've been said they've been
0:29:27set straight oh good so anyhow my very
0:29:33brief playing with this app I definitely
0:29:35like it although it confirmed to some
0:29:37degree that I'm an old man because I it
0:29:40took me a minute to realize how to share
0:29:42a video that I created because it didn't
0:29:46it wasn't obvious to me that in the like
0:29:48creation screen is where you're doing
0:29:52all your mod modifications and edits and
0:29:54whatnot and from what I can tell you
0:29:56have to back out to your like library
0:29:58screen in order to actually share
0:30:00something which I thought was a little
0:30:01peculiar but you know whatever but
0:30:04either way I in my very brief playing
0:30:06with it I I really really like it and I
0:30:09don't know that i'll use it that much
0:30:10but it was really cool the only
0:30:12complaint I have about it which actually
0:30:15is probably for the best is that I kind
0:30:18of wish it wasn't just square so as an
0:30:20example I had recorded a video of myself
0:30:24and Declan very quickly and I wanted to
0:30:27share it as an Instagram story and when
0:30:30I sucked it into Instagram it looked
0:30:32awful and it was like only the center of
0:30:35the of the video and it took me a second
0:30:38to realize oh it's scaling it because
0:30:41the video is square but Instagram
0:30:43stories annoyingly our portrait only and
0:30:46so it's just doing the best I can but
0:30:48that ruined my video and so that was a
0:30:50little frustrating but to be honest it's
0:30:52probably for the best that um that that
0:30:56that it is square because it's kind of
0:30:58generic I also didn't see a way to share
0:31:00to twitter but that again could be user
0:31:02error and i only looked for a moment but
0:31:04all in all I definitely liked it and I
0:31:05think it's pretty good they gotta fix
0:31:07that the answer
0:31:08story thing that's not a minor issue is
0:31:09that like I said the whole point of this
0:31:11is to is to share another networks and
0:31:13you have Instagram stories is does the
0:31:15particular format the app needs to
0:31:17support that in some way you can leave
0:31:19the defaults is whatever they are but
0:31:21someone who wants to use this app
0:31:23primarily as a way to do instrum stories
0:31:25that is not going to do it if they you
0:31:27know it just won't feel it won't feel
0:31:29right to not be able to shoot it in the
0:31:31same aspect ratio so get on that clip
0:31:33steam all right uh let's see what else
0:31:37has happened recently now that was your
0:31:39one you get your one that all cheese dad
0:31:42wow that's how it is hi fine let me go
0:31:46pass out hi kids have fun I'll see them
0:31:48I'll see you next week make a drink I
0:31:50can't it's all the way downstairs
0:31:51there's non Mac Pro stuff will clear the
0:31:54mac pro eventually and come out the
0:31:57other side in 2019 into the sunlight
0:32:00where we'll discuss patents and nvidia
0:32:03drivers and all sorts of other things i
0:32:05think we'll make it okay see you guys
0:32:07next week so this is more mac pro ! the
0:32:11show notes say i'm pretty sure i didn't
0:32:13do that i I you know I didn't do it I
0:32:15think I put the word more in there the
0:32:18first bit is a rumor that I don't know
0:32:21how much you know worth too attached to
0:32:25but it is a rumor and it has been
0:32:27reblogged as we used to say all over the
0:32:30place which does not make it any more
0:32:32true but anyway it's from OS news OS
0:32:36news com and it is a rumor cited to
0:32:40people and sources who know their stuff
0:32:43that kills confidence that definitely
0:32:48means it's true that's that's the way
0:32:52rumors should be cited because that
0:32:54again matches the the reliability this
0:32:59says the macro was in limbo in size
0:33:00Apple the decision to go ahead and
0:33:02develop a modular Mac blurp low
0:33:04replacement seems to have been made only
0:33:06in recent months with development
0:33:08starting only a few weeks ago so we were
0:33:11last year we're talking about all this
0:33:12you know seems like it must have
0:33:13happened at the earliest during the last
0:33:1612 months probably during last six
0:33:18months this one says in recent months
0:33:19the decision was made
0:33:21and development started only a few weeks
0:33:22ago so that is the tightest timeline i
0:33:25have seen even suggested and then it
0:33:27goes on to say why why did Apple do this
0:33:29what why did Apple make them 180 on the
0:33:31mac pro and the reason cited is a more
0:33:34specific version of a thing we've talked
0:33:35about a lot that apple was surprised by
0:33:38the reaction of the macbook pro with
0:33:40touch bar which heard from many
0:33:42different places in a vague sort of
0:33:44Apple thought that everyone was going to
0:33:47love their product and the negative
0:33:50reaction in the press if not in the
0:33:52sales numbers caught them by surprise
0:33:53and so this adds some more detail to
0:33:56that with some more vaguely source
0:33:58rumors after it says after announcement
0:34:02of the new mac pro with the macbook pro
0:34:04with touch bar orders for refurbished
0:34:06old macbook pro supposedly went through
0:34:08the roof and after the initial batch of
0:34:10reviews came out they shot up even
0:34:11higher so that would be a signal that I
0:34:14think Apple would pay attention to hey
0:34:16we've got the new macbook pro a touch
0:34:17bar and the refurbished version of the
0:34:20old one goes up really high now to
0:34:23believe this you have to a believe this
0:34:24is founded on anything and be you have
0:34:26to believe that this is not something
0:34:27that always happens every time a new
0:34:28model is introduced which I'm not
0:34:30entirely sure because maybe every time
0:34:31you introduce two new model is different
0:34:32from the old one people by the
0:34:34refurbished ones really quickly because
0:34:35they want to get their last chance to
0:34:36get the model they know and love but
0:34:38anyway that is a suggestion how that
0:34:42would reflect on the Mac Pro it would be
0:34:44just basically like we thought we knew
0:34:45what pros wanted but we seem to be wrong
0:34:48and they say similar combined with the
0:34:50problems of the LG Display and stuff
0:34:53like that and then finally to add more
0:34:56exciting on source rumors that will make
0:34:58Marco happy if you can bring himself to
0:35:00believe in briefly so far I can't go
0:35:03ahead yeah Apple is said to be exploring
0:35:05additional retina macbook pro models
0:35:07without the touch bar Oh wouldn't you
0:35:09love that so there's something for
0:35:12everybody in this vaguely source rumor
0:35:14but again I you know since since people
0:35:18are talking about it like I do believe
0:35:22that the the new Mac Pro decision end
0:35:24project were very recent I'm not sure
0:35:28her believed a few weeks ago but very
0:35:30recent and I do believe that Apple was
0:35:32surprised by the press react
0:35:35to the macbook pro with touch bars as
0:35:37Apple emphasizes every time you talk to
0:35:39them about it including the transcript
0:35:40that we cited before the new macbook pro
0:35:42would touch bar is incredibly popular
0:35:44and has the most orders ever of any
0:35:45laptop evel's ever produced people love
0:35:48it and it's awesome and all the numbers
0:35:49are great for it but like so many other
0:35:51things Apple said in that transcript and
0:35:53about the Mac Pro and everything they
0:35:56may be true but if you don't update a
0:35:59model for a really long time some of
0:36:02these results fall out of it you know
0:36:04like we're not really selling a lot of
0:36:06mac pro screw people buy them well you
0:36:08haven't updated it in years so that's a
0:36:10self-fulfilling prophecy as we've
0:36:12discussed before and the mac pro pro
0:36:14touch bar is the best-selling model ever
0:36:15well again the macbook pro was a little
0:36:18bit overdue for an update so there's
0:36:20pent-up demand for it and the then you
0:36:25have to map and like the curve like our
0:36:26mac sales increasing overall I think the
0:36:29macbook pro is a successful product for
0:36:31them but again I do believe that Apple
0:36:32was surprised by the negative reaction
0:36:35of some of the press about it they even
0:36:37emphasized in the transcript by the way
0:36:38went back to the well on the battery
0:36:41life of like their metrics say that the
0:36:43battery life for the new macbook pro
0:36:45with touch bar is better than the
0:36:46outgoing ones I believe that too you
0:36:48know what because the outgoing ones are
0:36:50old and the new models are brand-new
0:36:52don't feel that I'm sure they factor
0:36:55that in and I'm sure they can tell the
0:36:56age and normalize for it or whatever but
0:36:58it's difficult to to hang your hat on a
0:37:01lot of the stats because every what's
0:37:02that they say I'm like a hundred percent
0:37:04believe that but I also don't have
0:37:06enough information to to really tell
0:37:09whether it shows the thing you're saying
0:37:12that it shows what they're trying to say
0:37:14it shows this name the new macbook pro
0:37:15with touch bar has better battery life
0:37:17than our outgoing model but you haven't
0:37:19given me enough information to believe
0:37:20that all you've said is the stats say
0:37:23people are getting better a better
0:37:24battery life out of it than the old one
0:37:26you don't tell me whether you've
0:37:26controlled for the age of the machines
0:37:28and you know you don't tell me if it's
0:37:32an average or usage of what the
0:37:33percentiles are what the histogram looks
0:37:35like and also as well as tough as Marcos
0:37:36pointed out many other times you get
0:37:38fantastic battery life out of these new
0:37:39models until you do something intensive
0:37:41and then I tank and I bet if more people
0:37:43don't do in terms of things people
0:37:44aren't playing games with their laptop
0:37:46unplugged because they did their game
0:37:48be over in two and a half hours they're
0:37:50lucky yeah and that would really bring
0:37:52the numbers down but most people just
0:37:53don't play and don't do that so that
0:37:54doesn't show up in the stat so anyway I
0:37:56want to go off on that tangent but
0:37:57that's that's where my men mind went
0:38:00when reading this weird rumor believe it
0:38:02if you want to feel good for a little
0:38:03while yeah i mean this this is not an
0:38:06incredibly reliable source this is not
0:38:09like somebody with a great track record
0:38:11I don't lend a lot of credibility to
0:38:13this basically it lines up with solemn
0:38:16the other thing is that we've heard here
0:38:17and there but not very strongly and
0:38:19honestly for the most part it doesn't
0:38:22really matter I think what matters is
0:38:24Apple is at least you know if we believe
0:38:29what they said and I don't think we have
0:38:30any reason not to they were on a bad
0:38:33path before they have finally recognized
0:38:36that and yes they did recognize it
0:38:38pretty late down that path they did not
0:38:41recognize they were on a bad path in
0:38:422013 like it took a lot longer than that
0:38:45I would guess they recognize it in 2016
0:38:48sometime possibly even 2017 but the fact
0:38:52is they are on the path to fixing it
0:38:56something has clearly switched an apple
0:39:00it's like something has clearly flipped
0:39:02over or changed to to make them make
0:39:05this decision because before this it was
0:39:09very clear that they were doing things
0:39:13their way what they thought was right
0:39:14which involved a lot of things that did
0:39:17not serve Pro users basically he
0:39:19involved Singh saying no a lot and
0:39:22taking a long time to do pretty much
0:39:24everything and ignoring a lot of product
0:39:26lines and and and to some degree this is
0:39:29still what they're doing you know the
0:39:31not a lot has changed in in their actual
0:39:34actions here I think it probably will
0:39:37over the next you know two years or so
0:39:39as some of the stuff shakes out because
0:39:41clearly something has changed to to make
0:39:44them do this 180 on the Mac Pro because
0:39:45again like they didn't decide three
0:39:49years ago that this design needed to be
0:39:51replaced and it took them three years
0:39:54plus whatever is going to be nowt to do
0:39:55it no they decided three years ago to
0:39:57stop development Mac Pro and they have
0:40:00been effectively
0:40:02looking for what however many you know
0:40:04whatever time span between then and
0:40:07within the last few months they have
0:40:10thought we don't need it we don't need
0:40:11to develop mac pro anymore this is a
0:40:13dead product line it is no longer
0:40:15necessary for us to do we won't do it
0:40:17well it's not like they weren't
0:40:18developing in the buzz that something
0:40:19came on the transcript like that they
0:40:21further emphasized in the details that
0:40:23they did think about upgrading this
0:40:26component or that component they didn't
0:40:27say that they actually tried it out but
0:40:29how else would they have known that they
0:40:30couldn't support like some one of the
0:40:32the people present or one of the press
0:40:34people present asked them specifically
0:40:35oh so you I think maybe as panzram
0:40:37saying so you were thinking like oh we
0:40:38could increase the GPU frequency by 300
0:40:41megahertz because that doesn't quite
0:40:42seem worth it so we won't bother
0:40:43updating it and one of the apple evil
0:40:46said yes exactly yet that what you said
0:40:48is what happened like so it they stopped
0:40:51developing it in terms of ever releasing
0:40:54products but it seemed like at least in
0:40:56the beginning they would love to have
0:40:57done a spec bump or component bump but
0:40:59they just couldn't do it because the
0:41:01design they had didn't support what they
0:41:03had decided is basically we're not going
0:41:05to invest in entirely new model so if
0:41:07you can't update this one and the
0:41:08engineer say we can't because they
0:41:10either tested or ran the numbers or
0:41:11whatever we'll look into it again when
0:41:13the next round of GPUs and CPUs comes
0:41:15out but in the meantime no you can't
0:41:17have the budget to make a new one so
0:41:19it's semantics say does that mean
0:41:20stopping support or whatever but it does
0:41:21mean that they they they would have
0:41:23liked to have been able to offer speed
0:41:26bumps in this one because it is
0:41:27embarrassing to offer the same high-end
0:41:29computer for multiple years without not
0:41:31making it any faster well I die I would
0:41:34nitpick a little about that I'm not
0:41:35gonna go too far into it now for KC sake
0:41:37but that's buddy but yeah I think they
0:41:40could have done more in the meantime
0:41:42like they could have updated to see the
0:41:45CPU was thermally fine it was only the
0:41:47GPU thermal balance that was the issue
0:41:49with that design they could have updated
0:41:52the CPU to the same model like the
0:41:54equivalent models in the new families
0:41:56and then they could have updated the
0:41:58GPUs to more mid-range mid temperature
0:42:02models over the years like they didn't
0:42:04have to keep selling three and a half
0:42:05year old parts like they could have
0:42:08updated it by using similar class parts
0:42:11there that they already used in that
0:42:12design it wouldn't have been as
0:42:15competitive but it is even less
0:42:18competitive with three year old parts
0:42:19they were saying they didn't think that
0:42:21trade-off was worth it like the yep we
0:42:22could have the parts that would fit in
0:42:24there weren't better enough to warrant
0:42:26it now arguably after three years if you
0:42:27had merely done that thing that you
0:42:29never thought was worth it a couple of
0:42:30times then you would be farther from
0:42:31where you are or even he wait till the
0:42:33end and done it that's definitely
0:42:35arguable but you know at some point I
0:42:37think it really was you know so far on
0:42:40the back burner that they weren't even
0:42:41entertaining updates to it but what they
0:42:44said in this thing was you know even
0:42:46though we could have made incremental
0:42:47improvements the incremental
0:42:48improvements didn't seem worthwhile I
0:42:50guess I couldn't justify whatever it
0:42:52would take to you know the basically the
0:42:53overhead of ever doing a spec bump and
0:42:55making new models and doing all the
0:42:57stuff or whatever this is taking
0:42:59everything they said at face value who
0:43:00knows but actually what's actually going
0:43:01on and how far along they got with any
0:43:03kind of upgrades this thing and at what
0:43:06point they were nixed whether in the
0:43:08idea phase or after it had been almost
0:43:10ready for sale you never tell because
0:43:11all we see is what they actually release
0:43:13right but anyway so the point I was
0:43:15trying to make is obviously something
0:43:17has changed with with apples philosophy
0:43:21or the whatever they're using to make
0:43:24these decisions of whether to invest in
0:43:26certain product lines whether to update
0:43:28them or not because they were clearly
0:43:30going in one direction for some time and
0:43:32they are still going in that direction
0:43:33for most the product lines I mean you
0:43:35know nothing has changed in their
0:43:37releases yet but it's pretty clear if
0:43:39you look at the release schedule since
0:43:41about 2012 everything slowed down and it
0:43:45seemed like they went from releasing as
0:43:48much as they could in most the product
0:43:50lines to releasing as little as they
0:43:53could get away with and that is
0:43:56worrisome and that's what we've been
0:43:57complaining about for years and so it
0:44:00does it seems like whatever was causing
0:44:03that to be the result maybe a maybe a
0:44:07change has happened there in their
0:44:09thinking or their decision making or
0:44:12whatever else something has changed to
0:44:14make apple flip around on the mac pro
0:44:17and on displays and have this meeting
0:44:20and tell us what they were thinking like
0:44:22I hope that doesn't just apply to
0:44:25placating the media enough for the mac
0:44:28pro
0:44:29thing to say okay well now Apple cares
0:44:30about us again in the end I hope that
0:44:32applies to their entire thinking about
0:44:34all their products I'm tired of Apple
0:44:39seemingly thinking you know what if we
0:44:41can't do something incredibly innovative
0:44:43and awesome we're better off just doing
0:44:45nothing you know I think that's the
0:44:47wrong approach I think they should they
0:44:49should be saying yes to things that are
0:44:52simple updates to their products like
0:44:53it's one thing to spread yourself too
0:44:56thin with new stuff you know new
0:44:58initiatives new you know new heart
0:45:01entire product lines things like that
0:45:02that you could make an argument and we
0:45:05have that they should you know be really
0:45:07careful with that because it's hard it's
0:45:09it's a huge risk of spread themselves
0:45:10too thin but it is not hard it shouldn't
0:45:14you know it if it's hard for them to
0:45:16like update the Mac Mini with the same
0:45:18processor line but the new version of it
0:45:21like if that's hard they've set that up
0:45:23wrong like they are a huge company with
0:45:26tons and tons of money and tons of
0:45:28engineering resources they should be
0:45:31able to do what I described last week as
0:45:33like boring updates like what if there's
0:45:35a new processor put it in and start
0:45:37selling it to all the products that
0:45:38could use it like that there is no
0:45:40reason why they need to do things like
0:45:43what like what the Mac Mini is right now
0:45:45right which is like sitting around with
0:45:48ancient parts being neglected the last
0:45:50he made it worse than it was before
0:45:52there's nothing stopping them from doing
0:45:54a new mac mini except high high up
0:45:57somewhere they have decided that that is
0:45:59not worth investing any resources into
0:46:00at all and I think that's a mistake and
0:46:03maybe we'll see something that turn
0:46:05around again probably not especially
0:46:06like the mac mini has always been a very
0:46:08diluted product but I don't think that's
0:46:11that's not a good excuse like if Apple
0:46:13really wants like to fulfill what they
0:46:16say they are and make the best products
0:46:18for people that they can and only make
0:46:20great stuff like they sit that's what
0:46:22they say they do that isn't always true
0:46:23but that is what they say to do and I
0:46:25believe that's what they want to do and
0:46:26that is what that is what they want to
0:46:27be then they have to set up their
0:46:30product line in a way that allows them
0:46:33and end their management structure and
0:46:35their priorities they have to set this
0:46:36up in a way that allows them to not
0:46:40leave things in complete neglect for
0:46:42years because they aren't the most
0:46:45profitable product lines in the world
0:46:46like you know they sell a lot of all
0:46:49these things all these products like and
0:46:51we mentioned last week like they like
0:46:53the one percent or whatever of mac sales
0:46:55asst is like still like 200,000 a year
0:46:57and like as many as the B interview x5
0:46:59like it is worth them if they're going
0:47:01to have a product line at all I think
0:47:05it's worth it's worth them keeping it
0:47:06minimally updated and what that means is
0:47:09not every four years you make it worse
0:47:11what that means is you keep it updated
0:47:14every time you can and you don't have to
0:47:17do a whole new case design you know that
0:47:20like that's that I feel like you know
0:47:22but like last week discussing about how
0:47:24like Apple needs like the audacity and
0:47:26confidence to release boring products
0:47:29sometimes it seems like it seemed like
0:47:30they would rather you know that they
0:47:31would rather do nothing and neglect
0:47:33something for years then release
0:47:35something that isn't that exciting and I
0:47:37just think that's the wrong decision I
0:47:38think that they need to start thinking
0:47:40either way of like that might be true
0:47:42for certain products I don't know
0:47:43certain like you know mass consumer
0:47:45fashion type of products maybe the
0:47:47iphone although that's kind of its own
0:47:49schedule anyway you know not true the
0:47:51watch they just gave that a speed bump
0:47:52yeah what's your name on the outside
0:47:54better stuff on the inside that's your
0:47:55thicker but really I feel like they need
0:47:59to bring that same philosophy to all
0:48:01their products of just like you know
0:48:02what when when there's like if the mac
0:48:05mini can't be updated at least every two
0:48:08years you know the stuff goes into it
0:48:10like every year if the mac mini can't
0:48:12consider at least every two years to
0:48:14whatever's current first form factor
0:48:15then it was badly designed and it should
0:48:17be redesigned at me neither it is the
0:48:19problem with the map really you know if
0:48:21the mac pro can't be updated easily then
0:48:23that they then they did a horrible job
0:48:25designing it and so any of their
0:48:28products that that you can say that
0:48:29about like I feel like they they need to
0:48:32and maybe this is what it to it like
0:48:35they need to get like some humility in
0:48:37the sense that like their designs need
0:48:39to be a little more humble and they have
0:48:42to be okay releasing you know like a
0:48:44slightly more utilitarian version of
0:48:46some of these products not all of them
0:48:48but some of them and then they also then
0:48:50have to have the confidence as I said
0:48:51last week they have a confidence that
0:48:53they you know what it's okay
0:48:55to release a boring Mac Pro update and a
0:48:58boring mac mini update that's okay no
0:49:01one's gonna say Apple kit enemy anymore
0:49:03anybody's ass because the mac mini got
0:49:05updated again like that I don't think
0:49:08that's true at all it's Tyra because
0:49:10because the thing he's talking about
0:49:11speed bumps we have a name for them
0:49:13because they were so common so so common
0:49:16for a long time for years and years and
0:49:19years this was just a thing that
0:49:20happened just like model years of cars
0:49:22they were introduced a model and then
0:49:24there would be speed bumps and that
0:49:26eventually there would be a new model
0:49:27that's fancier in some way that's how
0:49:29Apple products work for a long time and
0:49:31during that time every time there was a
0:49:33speed bump nobody says oh no Apple can't
0:49:36innovate anymore because we understood
0:49:37with speed bumps were the fancy new one
0:49:40is in here it's just a speed bump for
0:49:41the other one and people go oh this is
0:49:43boring announcement it's just a speed
0:49:45bump but we had a word for it because it
0:49:47was a thing that happened routinely
0:49:48little did we know that you may not you
0:49:51may like I don't want speed bumps I want
0:49:52a fancy new one every time you know
0:49:53what's worse than speed bumps no speed
0:49:55bumps yeah exactly just nothing new at
0:49:58all so I think there is no PR damage of
0:50:03speed bumps it's just that at some point
0:50:04Apple decided that speed bumps weren't a
0:50:08thing they wanted to do and I have my
0:50:10own completely unverified anonymous
0:50:12sources who are not the ATP tipster or
0:50:14they could be for all we know because
0:50:15it's just email man I don't know where
0:50:16the exit stuff comes from who conveyed
0:50:20this again completely on source
0:50:22information that the high-end imac was
0:50:25the thing that Apple isn't playing for a
0:50:27while so there are hopes for that to
0:50:29have good internal who talk a bit more
0:50:30about that with more on source rumors
0:50:32later this is the unsourced rumor show
0:50:33but the decision about the new Mac Pro
0:50:37and display were made fairly recently
0:50:39and the summary is neither of these
0:50:42products meaning the high-end imac and
0:50:44the new Mac Pro are a good financial roi
0:50:46but there is now recognition to the
0:50:48senior VP and CEO level that's important
0:50:51for the company to make them and that's
0:50:52what it boils down to like that I can
0:50:55totally imagine all these products not
0:50:56being a good return on investment
0:50:58doesn't mean that they're they make
0:51:00losses but you know good ROI means i put
0:51:02x em on in and I want to get x times
0:51:04some large number amount out and a
0:51:07better ROI me like
0:51:08yeah it doesn't seem like I make enough
0:51:09money on speed bump Mac minis to even
0:51:11bother doing that at all what if we just
0:51:13don't do it how did the sales look it's
0:51:15like up sales are flat it's like great
0:51:17we just saved some money I just
0:51:18increased the ROI and the mac mini by
0:51:20not speed bumping it and they did they
0:51:21did increase the ROI in the mac mini and
0:51:23I think they can kind of get away with
0:51:24that in the mac mini but a reasonable
0:51:25amount but like one Mac Pro's what if we
0:51:28just don't ever update the mac pro
0:51:30because engineering says it would cost a
0:51:31lot of money in require a redesign what
0:51:33are the sales look like they go down a
0:51:34little bit but they're about the same
0:51:35great we just increased the ROI on the
0:51:37Mac Pro and you know the what this
0:51:40bullion source rumor now conveys is that
0:51:43even though it's not a good ROI which is
0:51:46a point I've been emphasizing since 2013
0:51:48it's important for the company to make
0:51:50these products anyway an apple is
0:51:52totally on that page now and again
0:51:55another thing you can pick up from the
0:51:56transcript is everything Marco said
0:51:57about frequent updates that was in all
0:51:59the summary articles like that apple
0:52:01says they want to make a new Mac Pro
0:52:02that can have frequent updates it is
0:52:04further emphasizing the transcript like
0:52:06further in detail emphasizes like they
0:52:08want to make a Mac Pro that they can
0:52:10make the parts inside of it better on a
0:52:13regular basis they don't commit to doing
0:52:15it on a particular schedule but they
0:52:16emphasize this is the thing we did wrong
0:52:19and we're going to fix it by doing it
0:52:21right we want a machine that without
0:52:23redesigning the machine we can regularly
0:52:26and steadily and easily and cheaply do
0:52:28this things that we used to think are
0:52:30boring which are called speed bumps and
0:52:32so you know that's why we're all so
0:52:33happy about this is because they didn't
0:52:35just say we're going to make a new pro
0:52:36mac pro and trust us you really like it
0:52:37just wait they said specific things
0:52:39about and the specific things they said
0:52:41and emphasized are exactly what we want
0:52:43so yay Apple let's now fast-forward for
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0:54:50goodness do you have any other thoughts
0:54:55about this particular rumor I wouldn't
0:54:58put too much into it you know and the
0:55:00theta the other parts a bit about how
0:55:01like you know like Apple is said to be
0:55:03making a non-touch bar 15-inch MacBook
0:55:05Pro option yeah that does just trolling
0:55:08Marco I I honestly first of all you know
0:55:12I want to be clear I don't hate the
0:55:14touch bar that much I would just given
0:55:16the choice to get it or not get it right
0:55:18now I chose not get it and they're added
0:55:21like that's due to other factors also
0:55:22like like I wanted something smaller and
0:55:24the the 13-inch that comes in both touch
0:55:27bar on non touch bar like the non-touch
0:55:29bar gets better battery life by a lot
0:55:31and I really and better life is very
0:55:33important to me right now so like you
0:55:35know
0:55:35it's obviously like you know other
0:55:38factors have go into this decision for
0:55:40everybody you know there's cost
0:55:41considerations for a lot of people in it
0:55:43so like I don't think there's actually
0:55:46that much demand to make 15-inch MacBook
0:55:49Pros without the touch bar and I also
0:55:52would be incredibly surprised if Apple
0:55:56did that for user satisfaction reasons
0:56:00now what they might do you know there's
0:56:03also a lot of complaints about the
0:56:04pricing of the new macbook pros because
0:56:05it is higher so I could see them may be
0:56:08offering you know in in the next update
0:56:11to the macbook pro generation whenever
0:56:14that comes I don't know if it's I don't
0:56:15know when the chips are coming out maybe
0:56:16this fall or next spring who knows but
0:56:18whenever that happens it would not
0:56:20surprise me if they made an entry level
0:56:2215 inch model that was maybe you know
0:56:261999 and that one had no discrete GPU
0:56:30and no touch bar to hit that price point
0:56:33the 15 inch escape yeah basically you
0:56:36know it cuz in the past they you know
0:56:38they've done that with the GPU selection
0:56:39which I've talked about before where is
0:56:40like in the past like the retina
0:56:41generation everything the and even the
0:56:43one right before that they had like the
0:56:45base model which was about two thousand
0:56:47bucks had only the Intel integrated GPU
0:56:50and you had to spend a few hundred more
0:56:52to get one with a little bit more stuff
0:56:54in an end to discrete GPU and it would
0:56:57not surprise me at all to see them to
0:56:58the same thing here she just give it
0:57:00another one that is 1999 so people will
0:57:03stop complaining about the price and has
0:57:04a few things cut out of it and one of
0:57:05them would probably be this discrete GPU
0:57:07and one of them might be the touch bar
0:57:08and that would be totally fine like but
0:57:11that wouldn't be because quote everyone
0:57:13hates the touch bar it would be because
0:57:15they want to hit a price point yeah they
0:57:18did also mention the transcripts people
0:57:19have some questions about ports they
0:57:21didn't say they were going to even
0:57:22entertain this idea but it was mentioned
0:57:25as an idea that exists just like the mac
0:57:27mini as a product that exists in the
0:57:28lineup of having a macbook pro like with
0:57:37legacy ports like that the only things
0:57:39on the side of it wouldn't be the
0:57:40Thunder ball three USB a few things that
0:57:43was there was brought up as a question
0:57:44and Apple didn't immediately shut the
0:57:46door and say we are never doing that and
0:57:48that's you know in the Apple it's like
0:57:50wow they're entertaining the idea of
0:57:52possibly having a macbook pro with
0:57:53different ports on the side of it may be
0:57:55an SD card slot I don't would hold your
0:57:56breath for it but you know that's what
0:57:58Apple does like they said they make a
0:57:59product we do the best we can see what
0:58:01people think of it what their behavior
0:58:03indicates and then for the next one you
0:58:05know they said for the next one we're
0:58:06going to do better and we'll take what
0:58:08we've learned and you know and Marco
0:58:10suggestion sounds totally plausible both
0:58:12because it makes sense from a business
0:58:13perspective and also because if that's
0:58:15what people are telling them based on
0:58:16like you know this rumor of buying
0:58:18refurbished ones or people buying the
0:58:20escape or whatever they'll do that to
0:58:22fill a market need and the same by the
0:58:23same token like this is something that
0:58:26didn't get too much discussion in the
0:58:27Articles that was mentioned a few times
0:58:28apple said and we've been hearing about
0:58:31for a while that they went they have
0:58:33been going out to Pro users reaching out
0:58:35to just regular people like hey you use
0:58:37our products in a pro capacity tell us
0:58:39about it for a long time now leading up
0:58:41to this Mac Pro announcement and they do
0:58:43this stuff like that all the time so
0:58:44just just knowing that it's like that's
0:58:45they're gonna make a new mac what they
0:58:46do that all the time like they say even
0:58:48when you just go to the apple store buy
0:58:49a new mac get new iphone sometimes they
0:58:51send your random survey about it
0:58:52whatever but they were going to people
0:58:53and saying tell us how you use our pro
0:58:55hardware what do you like about it what
0:58:56do you not like about it what things are
0:58:58important to you what things are not
0:58:59important to you to try to gauge you
0:59:01know whether they should make a new mac
0:59:03pro and the decision they came to is yes
0:59:04they should and probably like what do
0:59:06you think about the new macbook pros and
0:59:08what you know if we made a new one what
0:59:11would you want to see in it and stuff
0:59:11like that so they're they're doing their
0:59:13job they're doing what they're supposed
0:59:15to be doing and hopefully we'll see this
0:59:18feedback loop closed with the next round
0:59:20of macbook pros and I mean I don't want
0:59:24to call like if the next round of macros
0:59:26has the 15 inch escape and has an SD
0:59:30card slot and has better batteries that
0:59:33they supposedly couldn't fit in this one
0:59:35for some reason I forget that this is
0:59:36the model or it was another one that the
0:59:37rumor was about anyway if they come out
0:59:40with that it doesn't mean that they made
0:59:42a terrible mistake and have fixed it
0:59:43just means they're making their products
0:59:44better over time that's what they always
0:59:46do but for the mac pro I was thinking
0:59:49that this Mac Pro that comes out that in
0:59:51theory i will buy
0:59:53Yeah right Ellen yeah is elevated is
0:59:57worthy of being elevated to the
0:59:57worthy of being elevated to the
1:00:00holder of the coveted title of apology
1:00:03Mac Pro right alongside the apology
1:00:05mouse people don't remember the apology
1:00:07mouse is the mouse apple released was
1:00:09much fanfare after subjecting the world
1:00:12to the completely circular puck based
1:00:13mouse on the original iMac and they
1:00:16apologized for that by making a mess
1:00:18that was not completely circular and
1:00:19therefore easier to a line and it was
1:00:21under everybody seat at a macworld expo
1:00:24keynote and i got one because i was
1:00:27there and the mouse wasn't undo seat it
1:00:29was like a little card and you go to the
1:00:30back of the room and gives him on a cart
1:00:31and they give you an apology mouse and i
1:00:33still have it and it's awesome and i
1:00:35would love an apology mac pro and it
1:00:36looks like i'm going to get one well
1:00:38you're going to have one released are
1:00:40you going to buy one area luckily get
1:00:43one unlike if it's not going to be a
1:00:44card under my seat at ww sees as i get a
1:00:46free one but yeah oh and i'm on the
1:00:49topic of other were i'm skipping a bunch
1:00:51of the mac pro a more mac pro topic for
1:00:55your case but what i mean though that's
1:00:57too bad no one thing i want to talk
1:01:00about is this from we want to hit every
1:01:02single person who was in that meeting
1:01:03he's always like five journalists this
1:01:04is from lancelin off at Mashable he I
1:01:08quoted this because I didn't have the
1:01:09transcript of time but let's give him
1:01:10credit he be reported and I pulled it
1:01:12out when I asked if Apple might consider
1:01:15a touchscreen Mac Shilla shook his head
1:01:17and said no he told me it's simply not a
1:01:20big request from Mac Pro customers we're
1:01:22talking to them and the things they're
1:01:24most interested in this doesn't even
1:01:25register he had you can see the full
1:01:27quotes in the transcript if you're
1:01:28interested but it was basically he just
1:01:29like cut them off and like said no no
1:01:32touchscreen Mac this is not something
1:01:34customers interests and have it know
1:01:35what customers are interested is because
1:01:36they're talking to them right this is a
1:01:38great example of I feel like if I was in
1:01:41that meeting I mean I don't know I'm
1:01:42it's hard to say what you were doing
1:01:44your in these meetings but in a relaxed
1:01:47environment where I didn't feel pressure
1:01:48to be well behaved I would say but come
1:01:52on guys you know you can't just ask
1:01:53customers what they want like new yeah
1:01:55you have to do that but customers don't
1:01:57always know what they want until you
1:01:58showed them no one would know customer
1:02:00would have ever requested the iphone but
1:02:01guess what when you made it there like
1:02:03yes that if you ask them what they
1:02:04wanted they would have been like a
1:02:05fancier version of whatever nokia
1:02:07smartphone they had right now right I
1:02:09don't I think Matt custom Mac Pro
1:02:12customers aren't requesting a touch
1:02:13screaming but if it turns out that the
1:02:16surface to do is a good idea that has
1:02:18legs by the time your customers are
1:02:21requesting it it's way too late because
1:02:23of because of the the things you would
1:02:25have to do to your OS or you know to
1:02:28your to App Store economy depending on
1:02:30whether you're trying to make a mac into
1:02:31that or make an iOS device into that
1:02:33will take you a long time so Apple
1:02:36should not be asking its customers like
1:02:38you know not be deciding just because
1:02:40its customers don't want one now that
1:02:42it's not a good idea clearly Apple
1:02:44thinks it's still not a good idea and
1:02:45I'm sure that experimented with and I'm
1:02:46sure they use the service studio prop
1:02:48they even even a dumped on the surface
1:02:50studios like a drawing experience like
1:02:53they basically said the ipad pro has a
1:02:54better drawing experience i'm assuming
1:02:55you mean more responsive and less
1:02:57parallax because you did this you know
1:02:58like which is true right it totally true
1:03:01but I you know they may be right this is
1:03:05not that the surface to do idea it
1:03:07doesn't have legs in the design
1:03:09community but the reason I would cite
1:03:11for that is not that the first iteration
1:03:13of this has flaws versus some existing
1:03:15tech because that's just like I'm you
1:03:17know a PR whatever like the first
1:03:19version of everything is wonky right you
1:03:22know the first Mac web was Ram starve
1:03:24the first iphone like didn't even shoot
1:03:26video right you know so you can't cite
1:03:28that right that doesn't mean and you
1:03:29also can't site of our customers aren't
1:03:31asking this of course they're not asking
1:03:32for they're never going to ask for the
1:03:34visionary next big thing is they don't
1:03:35know they want it yet but if the server
1:03:37studio starts getting penetration and
1:03:38starts being used by more people
1:03:40eventually they will be saying hey I why
1:03:42don't you have something like this and
1:03:43maybe Apple will say take this humongous
1:03:46iPad pro and try to find pearl apps for
1:03:48it or something so anyway that bothered
1:03:50me a little bit because I don't like to
1:03:51say no and then you're not thinking
1:03:53about it is fine but to cite those
1:03:55reasons like those are those are not
1:03:58those are not reasons that should be
1:04:00convincing to you internally if their
1:04:01reasons you want to pair it back to the
1:04:02press to give explanations that's fine
1:04:04but I really hope internally like there
1:04:06does that fear I get especially want to
1:04:08hear people who are good at talking to
1:04:10the press at Apple the fear I get that
1:04:13they believe their own hype that the
1:04:15reasons they give externally for things
1:04:17are also the reasons they use internally
1:04:19to justify their decisions which I
1:04:20sincerely hope is not the case because
1:04:22so many of the reasons are our bad
1:04:24reasons you know like they're there
1:04:26like their their Apple 101 bad reasons
1:04:29like the whole history of Apple shows
1:04:30this is not how you should be making
1:04:31decisions because every success you had
1:04:33you know defied these or even just like
1:04:35plain old you know ed catmull creativity
1:04:37and success hides problem reasons what
1:04:39evers like it's fine to tell them to
1:04:41other people but i really hope you don't
1:04:43believe like because this first server
1:04:45studio has technical flaws that that's
1:04:47why it's a terrible idea if you're going
1:04:49to say we've tried the idea internally
1:04:51and we found out that it's terrible
1:04:52which they have said in the past that at
1:04:54least I give more credence to because it
1:04:55shows you are seriously pursuing the
1:04:57idea but anyway that bothered me I still
1:05:00think the server studio is an idea that
1:05:02has some potential some artists also
1:05:04agree I just hope apple doesn't get
1:05:08caught flat-footed on this one because
1:05:10again it's not like oh well so it
1:05:11becomes accessible Apple can make one
1:05:13they have a serious software and
1:05:14platform thing to resolve to ever ship
1:05:16anything like that they have to decide
1:05:18whether it's a mac or an iPad and either
1:05:20decision they make their a bunch of
1:05:21other software and ecosystem things they
1:05:23have to do to make that work yeah I mean
1:05:25like everyone I've known who has bought
1:05:28a surface to do or used one and the
1:05:30granite this is not a large group of
1:05:31people but you know it's like people on
1:05:33Twitter and stuff the responses are all
1:05:35are pretty consistent which is this is
1:05:39really cool there's really something to
1:05:41this but windows sucks like we we all
1:05:44know that I really like this is no
1:05:46surprise to anybody listen to this show
1:05:47and I like no likelihood but you know
1:05:50there is clearly like you know there's
1:05:52something there's something here and I
1:05:54think if Apple chose to do something
1:05:57with that they might be able do a really
1:05:59good job with it I mean there would be
1:06:01certain limitations there's you know
1:06:03every computer input method has weird
1:06:07limitations to it the ipad you know has
1:06:10problems with text entry unless you do
1:06:12keyboards but that's a weird hack you
1:06:14know the computers have problems with
1:06:17you know direct interaction and maybe
1:06:18leash in like at least there's all sort
1:06:20of like everything you do is get it is
1:06:21going to be imperfect but i think you
1:06:23know the the kind of the model for
1:06:25modern computing and devices and in like
1:06:28the last decade has really just been
1:06:29like well you know what we're going to
1:06:31embrace that we can't get this perfect
1:06:33and we're going to make things anyway
1:06:35the best we can that take advantage of
1:06:38what they are and
1:06:39leave what they aren't to other devices
1:06:41so like you know because if you didn't
1:06:44if you weren't willing to do things that
1:06:45way tablets wouldn't exist because
1:06:47tablets are this this kind of weird
1:06:49hybrid that is good at certain things
1:06:51computers are good at terrible other
1:06:53things are good at and but but they can
1:06:56do things the computer can't you know
1:06:58it's like it when apple says like oh
1:07:00this this we've tried this and it
1:07:02doesn't work it can't be done there's
1:07:03lots of problems or whatever you could
1:07:05have said the same thing about tablets
1:07:06in 2009 but they made the ipad anyway
1:07:10they found a way they found like like a
1:07:12slot for it to fit in in the way people
1:07:16use things they there there were things
1:07:18that it was really good at and that made
1:07:20it worth doing despite all the you know
1:07:22downsides of tablets and those downsides
1:07:25are still there today but it doesn't
1:07:26matter because the things that good at
1:07:28it's really good at for certain people
1:07:29and so any kind of like touch or pen Mac
1:07:34hybrid might be the same thing it might
1:07:37be like you know this is kind of weird
1:07:39for these reasons over here but it's
1:07:42really good at these things and I think
1:07:44the surface studios you know slight
1:07:46success among among some artisan stuff
1:07:49shows that to be the case that like you
1:07:51know the drawing on Windows is weird you
1:07:54know using a pen and touched on this
1:07:56giant you know like drafting table form
1:07:59factor pc running a PCOS is weird and
1:08:04does have downsides but it also has
1:08:07really cool upsides so there I think
1:08:09there might be something there and and I
1:08:10think it would be it would be
1:08:14unfortunate if there was something there
1:08:17and Apple wasn't able to or wasn't
1:08:19willing to find it and deliver it
1:08:22because they either are making bad
1:08:25assumptions or that they aren't willing
1:08:28to tackle the you know the software
1:08:31integration costs that would result in
1:08:33doing this kind of like Mac iOS touch
1:08:36kind of hybrid OS and because those
1:08:38aren't small problems you know those are
1:08:40big problems but but I do think it would
1:08:43be kind of a shame if there was really a
1:08:45product here to be had that could be
1:08:46really useful to some people and that we
1:08:48weren't ever going to get it because of
1:08:49these other issues you know that being
1:08:52said
1:08:53one of the other things I'm concerned
1:08:55about is it does kind of seem like at an
1:09:00increasing pace Apple is being surprised
1:09:04by customer reactions to what they do
1:09:07and that's a little concerning like we
1:09:11keep like you know first like when you
1:09:13know with with the the 2016 MacBook Pros
1:09:15those came out and were you know really
1:09:18met with a lot of ambivalence from
1:09:19people head and a lot of criticism and a
1:09:22lot of anger that they weren't certain
1:09:24other things and an apple was you know
1:09:27allegedly they were like shocked by this
1:09:29that they were like we thought this was
1:09:30and you know say the touch bar think we
1:09:32thought we thought this was amazing like
1:09:34it seems like it's actually not being
1:09:35well-received like what how did this
1:09:37possibly happen why is it so different
1:09:39from what we expected and similar with
1:09:41the mac pro you know it turns out that
1:09:42if you kill your pro hardware line
1:09:45slowly over years with you know neglect
1:09:48after releasing and already polarizing
1:09:50product then it turns out people get mad
1:09:53who like the old thing or one of the
1:09:54current things stay current and they
1:09:56seemed greatly surprised by that as well
1:09:59that reminds me of something else that i
1:10:01forgot to address there on that exact
1:10:02topic of hey you know what happens if
1:10:04you don't up you're at you're you're
1:10:06Mike proprio it's not one of the things
1:10:07they cited in this very strange lead-up
1:10:09that I think a few of the journalists
1:10:10over there noted is very strange lead-up
1:10:12to this announcement of this meeting was
1:10:13let me tell you how few people use the
1:10:17mac pro and let me tell you how many
1:10:19pros use other products how many pros
1:10:21use MacBook Pros uh i think i flubbed
1:10:25that let me tell you how many people do
1:10:28not use the mac pro and instead write
1:10:30use imax or macbook pros right that was
1:10:32their whole intro if you read the
1:10:34transcript it was all about that right
1:10:36it's like and this is a thing where
1:10:38they're going to announce guess what
1:10:39we're making a new mac pro if you had
1:10:41just heard the intro it's like this is
1:10:42leading up to them telling us why they
1:10:43don't need to have a micro anymore
1:10:45because they're saying look at all these
1:10:46pros and we're defining probes is
1:10:47someone who uses a pro app at least once
1:10:49a week or someone who uses it every few
1:10:51weeks and they does all you know the
1:10:54number one piece of hardware used by our
1:10:55prose is guess what the macbook pro the
1:10:57number two piece of hardware you buy our
1:10:58pros guess what the imac right and the
1:11:01distant third is this mac pro such a
1:11:03small percentage all that a hundred
1:11:06percent believe
1:11:07but if you don't update the mac pro for
1:11:10three years of course they're gonna flee
1:11:12elsewhere of course they're gonna start
1:11:13buying I maxamed but what choice do they
1:11:15have what choice like and again I
1:11:19totally understand from PR perspective
1:11:21this is this is the line this is the
1:11:23move I just sincerely hope that
1:11:24internally that they they have there are
1:11:27clear-eyed about all this and you can't
1:11:29tell they're not going to tell you what
1:11:30but they talk about in their boardrooms
1:11:32what do they put up in their slides and
1:11:33I really believe they are clear I've is
1:11:34it remember they had like a leak of the
1:11:36like slideshow many years ago samsung
1:11:40thing about it like like we don't have
1:11:41bigger phones and customers want them
1:11:43yeah right we'd we do not have what
1:11:44customers want we need to make a bigger
1:11:46phone yeah yeah that's that's how you
1:11:48talk to yourself internally in a healthy
1:11:50way and I'm sure they do but like it's
1:11:51when you only get the external like the
1:11:54you know the party line of like here's
1:11:55what we have to tell you it makes me
1:11:59worried sometimes because it's just so
1:12:00hard like they'll they'll never they'll
1:12:03never tell you what they tell themselves
1:12:04internally and you just worry that their
1:12:06believe in their own height because they
1:12:07are so consistent and disciplined with
1:12:09their message to the outside world and
1:12:10because they choose to offer up these
1:12:12things like this that are just like
1:12:13instantly refutable like oh people who
1:12:16are moving to I'm accent and macbook
1:12:18pros like well duh like like why even
1:12:21tell us that aren't we all smart here
1:12:23don't of course they're moving to like
1:12:25what else are they gonna do I guess I
1:12:26could go to Windows is the other choice
1:12:27right which is also happening by the way
1:12:29and you're not going to tell us about
1:12:30that so that anyway sorry to derail
1:12:33there yeah anyway so all that is to say
1:12:36that it it it certainly has seemed in in
1:12:40recent times that Apple seems to be
1:12:42increasingly surprised that people don't
1:12:44universally loved what they brew what
1:12:46they put out there and that that
1:12:49concerns me and I hope in in whatever
1:12:53has kind of flipped around or changed
1:12:55that has caused them to decide to do the
1:12:57Mac Pro again and to start you know
1:12:59really serving pros well hopefully again
1:13:01whatever whatever has changed to cause
1:13:05that I hope it has also fixed whatever
1:13:07was causing them to put out products
1:13:11with with a very different internal
1:13:15impression of what was going to happen
1:13:16or how they're going to be received then
1:13:19what public actually delivery because
1:13:20that is worrisome
1:13:21like Apple should not be that caught off
1:13:25guard by their reactions to their
1:13:27products you know Apple is really good
1:13:30most of the time at product design they
1:13:33have a huge history doing it very well
1:13:35the track record is very very good they
1:13:37have incredible talent within the
1:13:39company you know and like you know if
1:13:41they're going to do something like the
1:13:43Apple TV remote that is incredibly bad
1:13:46just terrible good thing they update the
1:13:49Apple TV every year so that will have to
1:13:51deal with that bad remote for a long
1:13:52time right yeah like to get something
1:13:55like that out into the world there are
1:13:57people inside of the company who are
1:13:59smart enough and clearly and
1:14:01clear-headed enough to look at that and
1:14:03say you know what this is kind of a bad
1:14:04idea and here's why but for some reason
1:14:07they weren't listen to so I just I hope
1:14:09something that whatever has changed that
1:14:12caused this Mac Pro thing is also going
1:14:15to let them be a little bit more honest
1:14:18about their own product reactions
1:14:20internally before they decide to release
1:14:23things or go ahead with things so that
1:14:25they are less surprised when the public
1:14:27doesn't love every weird beautiful
1:14:29useless thing they release chatroom
1:14:31points out a quick real-time follow-up
1:14:34that federighi said and the things the
1:14:36Mac Pro sales didn't fall off that's
1:14:37what I said before when I said oh you
1:14:38releasing Mac Pro and trash can and then
1:14:40sales are kind of level it's another one
1:14:43of those facts that could be a hundred
1:14:44percent true but it doesn't tell you
1:14:46what the initial value was so if the if
1:14:48the trashcan Mac Pro was only appealing
1:14:50to a certain very small subset of people
1:14:52and those people were trapped into but
1:14:53repeatedly buying it year after year
1:14:54even though it didn't get updated
1:14:55without result in flat sales and because
1:14:58it's such a small percentage it would
1:15:00result in look how many people who we
1:15:01classify as pros according to the
1:15:03wheeled met weird metric by our much
1:15:05more popular machines well of course
1:15:07they do those are your most popular
1:15:07machines and you know like anyway stats
1:15:11that are true but do not necessarily
1:15:13prove the thing you're saying that they
1:15:14prove it's it's a frustration yeah we go
1:15:16ahead ukz now it's some it's curious
1:15:21tread reason through what Apple is
1:15:23thinking with regard to their products
1:15:27and how they're received because you
1:15:29know anyone I've ever spoken to us who
1:15:31has spent any amount of time as an apple
1:15:34employee has all
1:15:35he's vehemently said that their biggest
1:15:39critics are themselves and I completely
1:15:42agree with you guys that from the
1:15:43outside it seems clear that they offered
1:15:46up this you know touch bar macbook pro
1:15:48on a platter and said look at this
1:15:49magnificent piece of electronics you
1:15:52should be blessed enough to be able to
1:15:54give us a whole pile of money for one of
1:15:56these and then it did seem from the
1:15:59outside like they were surprised that
1:16:00people were like yeah we're good but I
1:16:03don't know on the inside it's it's it's
1:16:06a bold claim for any of us to make if if
1:16:09we think that on the inside they were
1:16:10really taken aback by it because as you
1:16:13said John you know the messaging from
1:16:14the out to the outside will always be oh
1:16:16no this is exactly what we planned but
1:16:18the inside I bet that they're being
1:16:21pretty darn honest with themselves and
1:16:23maybe the expectation was different but
1:16:27I don't think it took them very long to
1:16:28realize that who this didn't go the way
1:16:30we thought it did and now they're
1:16:33turning around now I will concede that
1:16:34it certainly seems like the mac pro
1:16:36something just went totally wrong there
1:16:39because I concede and agree that it took
1:16:41way too long way way way too long for
1:16:45them to make any statement about what's
1:16:47coming and and the consistent reports
1:16:50you neyo be that rumors that it's been
1:16:53in the last six weeks to six months that
1:16:55they've really gotten in on a new mac
1:16:57pro like that's kind of alarming but at
1:17:00least they're turning the ship around no
1:17:03it's just it seems weird it seems weird
1:17:05to meet it for us to assume that that
1:17:08there aren't some very vocal critics
1:17:10within Apple of Apple Oh totally are
1:17:13leavin marco was saying that they are
1:17:14it's just a question of like they don't
1:17:15win they don't win the argument because
1:17:17we can tell who wins by what they
1:17:18actually ship and yeah and the and like
1:17:21i said i think that the presentation
1:17:22about the iphone before they had a big
1:17:24iphone with a slide i was trying to
1:17:26quote was like you know customers want
1:17:29what we don't have or something similar
1:17:30phrasing like they were just totally
1:17:32brutal about we don't have big phones
1:17:33customers want them we should make one
1:17:36and they did and guess what it sold
1:17:37really really well so like I believe
1:17:39internally that everything we're saying
1:17:41has been said internally by multiple
1:17:43people and it's just a question of who
1:17:45wins the argument and my general
1:17:47frustration is because
1:17:48they have executives who are so good at
1:17:50talking to the public so good at talking
1:17:53to the public in terms of they'll never
1:17:55get off message and also like they're
1:17:58willing to throw out things that don't
1:18:00actually support what they're saying but
1:18:01sound like they do at first at first
1:18:02glance and I find it frustrating to
1:18:04never be able to get to the no seriously
1:18:06just talk to me like a human being like
1:18:07I guess you'd have to be off the record
1:18:09on the record they're never going to do
1:18:10that but because because in the end it
1:18:13doesn't matter like who cares about the
1:18:14internal politics so the products are
1:18:15what they are when you ask me questions
1:18:17about it i'm not going to trash my own
1:18:18product and i'm not going to tell you
1:18:20about future ones they could be working
1:18:21on a surface studio style computer they
1:18:23could have had it in the works for three
1:18:25years now and they're trying to get it
1:18:26right there never tell you that they're
1:18:28you know they're just going to say right
1:18:29to the point where they release it Steve
1:18:30Jobs style that's not a good idea we
1:18:32don't think it's a good idea until they
1:18:33come out and say we finally cracked it
1:18:34here it is and now it's a great idea
1:18:36because we did it right that's just the
1:18:37way they work and it can just be
1:18:38frustrating from the outside but but
1:18:41yeah when when the when the stuff that's
1:18:43coming out that tells you that tells you
1:18:45who won arguments and what decisions
1:18:47were made and that we can judge them
1:18:48based on and so yeah it's also it's hard
1:18:52to like you know if if you are like you
1:18:56know an engineer working on you know
1:18:58photos app or something like that are
1:19:01you really gonna be willing to take the
1:19:03the political hit internally to
1:19:06criticize a wrote that was designed by
1:19:09jony ive or richard how earth-like is
1:19:12that really going to be a wise career
1:19:14move you know like the company is set up
1:19:16in a way you know it's a big company
1:19:18there's there's rank there's politics
1:19:21internally there's you know every big
1:19:23company has this stuff so like not
1:19:25everybody can get their voice heard if
1:19:29they have a criticism about a product
1:19:30that's that that is being considered for
1:19:32being designed like it's up to there
1:19:35have to be people who it has to be set
1:19:38up in a way that like high up people can
1:19:41criticize and that and the people who
1:19:43are at the high up levels need to
1:19:45criticize when necessary and this is you
1:19:48know like we talked before about like
1:19:50this is one of one of Steve Jobs
1:19:52greatest strengths and and one of the
1:19:54reasons why he had such a great
1:19:57relationship with Johnny ive and with
1:20:00the engineering is like there was a
1:20:01great balance
1:20:02of editing and criticism and honesty
1:20:05internally that resulted in mostly only
1:20:08great stuff coming out like the hit rate
1:20:09was pretty good there and and when
1:20:11things did come out there weren't a lot
1:20:13of controversial or polarizing
1:20:16attributes of new products as there are
1:20:18now like now it seems like almost
1:20:21everything that comes out there's you
1:20:24know great advances in some areas but
1:20:26almost all those advances come at some
1:20:29kind of massively polarizing cost and I
1:20:32feel like that's happening more recently
1:20:34than it used to and maybe that's because
1:20:36the the collaboration or the editing up
1:20:40top is not happening it with the same
1:20:42health and same balance that it used to
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1:22:00sponsoring our show I wanted to go back
1:22:06just briefly I thought that the
1:22:09statistic that John it brief that had
1:22:12talked about earlier very quickly was
1:22:14just fascinating and this is
1:22:16voting from Gruber apples research shows
1:22:18that fifteen percent of all mac users
1:22:20use at least one pro app frequently
1:22:22these are apps for things like music
1:22:24creation video editing graphic design
1:22:26and software development basically apps
1:22:28at our performance intensive and
1:22:29additional fifteen percent of all mac
1:22:31users use pro apps less frequently but
1:22:34at least a few times per month per month
1:22:36that thirty percent of the overall Mac
1:22:38user base is what Apple considers the
1:22:40pro market I don't really have a lot to
1:22:42extrapolate from this but I just thought
1:22:44it was very very interesting that
1:22:46according to Apple fifteen percent of
1:22:49users uses them uses a pro app
1:22:52frequently whatever that definition is
1:22:55be that daily or multiple times a week
1:22:56or what have you and then another
1:22:58fifteen that uses them at least a few
1:23:01times a month and I just thought that
1:23:04was a really fascinating statistic that
1:23:06I never expected to come out of that
1:23:08meeting yeah that's that's a lot higher
1:23:10than I would have guessed for is you
1:23:11know especially like the thirty percent
1:23:12total that's kind of amazing well they
1:23:16didn't clearly communicate that because
1:23:18if you read the transcript and it was
1:23:19much debate about this but many people
1:23:21interpreting but now having read the
1:23:22transcript it is no more clear to me the
1:23:25question is first one is clear fifteen
1:23:28percent use use what they classify as a
1:23:30pro app at least once a week totally
1:23:32clear the second one is the problem
1:23:33because they say this group of users
1:23:35uses a pro app like once every few weeks
1:23:40or whatever was some longer period and
1:23:41the question is does that second group
1:23:43of users include the first Gruber
1:23:45clearly thinks it does because whether
1:23:47Apple said was thirty percent use it you
1:23:50know in the longer period and 15 in the
1:23:52shorter but I can't tell up the 15 is
1:23:54part of the 30 like other exclusive
1:23:56groups are they inclusive and so you
1:23:57can't tell if the total is thirty
1:23:59percent or 45 Apple could have
1:24:02communicated that better like perhaps
1:24:03than text or in some other fashion or it
1:24:05could have been clarified so depending
1:24:07on how you interpret what they said in
1:24:09the transcript and I think it's a big
1:24:12difference are are forty-five percent of
1:24:14mac users classified as occasional or
1:24:17frequent Pro users or is it thirty
1:24:20percent and 15 of them are once a week
1:24:23either way these are very nice high
1:24:25numbers higher than I would have guessed
1:24:26but Apple pics what it means to be a pro
1:24:29user they use a pro app which they don't
1:24:30tell us what it is that it's that oh you
1:24:31know like one of those apps use to make
1:24:33things right well I think it's I think
1:24:36it's pretty clear that what they mean by
1:24:37pro app is anything Apple makes it ends
1:24:40in pro so logic pro Final Cut Pro also
1:24:42probably like I would say adobe creative
1:24:44suite apps make sense there and i think
1:24:46it was also very clear they meant xcode
1:24:47and that includes a lot of people yeah I
1:24:50would agree with all of those but there
1:24:52how many other things are in that
1:24:54categories they didn't give us an
1:24:55exhaustive like you're just going by
1:24:57their metrics and I bet they're picking
1:24:58something pretty broad for example there
1:25:01could be just one application that is
1:25:02frequently used that they happen to
1:25:03classify as pro that pulls up the
1:25:05average everything else these are you
1:25:07know we have no visibility duties the
1:25:08Apple has all the information so I'm not
1:25:10surprised that number it sounds about
1:25:12what I would think they would because of
1:25:13their very broad definition of pro
1:25:15everything you defined like I don't
1:25:16think that's brought but I'm gonna try
1:25:18to think of like one other applications
1:25:19they could throw in there there would be
1:25:21like oh if you if you ever launched
1:25:22terminal you count as a pro app you
1:25:24could argue for that but there's
1:25:25millions of people who are launching
1:25:27terminal just so they can use their mac
1:25:28desis a Shinto something to do something
1:25:30and they're not using their makina
1:25:32Procope asset it's it's a you know it's
1:25:34a glass TTYL is we used to say back in
1:25:36the day and that is not a pro use
1:25:38because you can do that from the macbook
1:25:40adorable and it works fine but if you
1:25:43classify terminal as a pro app suddenly
1:25:45that brings up your numbers play pro is
1:25:47a state of mind oh my goodness alright
1:25:53what else do we have to talk about with
1:25:55regard to the mac pro well we can move
1:25:56on to the imac pro because there was
1:25:58another completely on source rumor and
1:25:59this is a place where we're dumping them
1:26:00all on the show right this is from all
1:26:03of them on this episode yet all of them
1:26:06job this one also got reblogged
1:26:08everywhere i'm surprised like people
1:26:10reblogging i thought that the mac
1:26:11blogosphere had gotten over that like
1:26:15that there'll be one completely
1:26:16unsourced rumor and some random thing in
1:26:18it everybody else will grab it and
1:26:19you'll see it appear on every site and
1:26:21sometimes you'll have to like pour over
1:26:24the site to try to figure out they just
1:26:25signing that one thing i read on that
1:26:26totally unsourced vlog and sometimes
1:26:29they don't link to it and sometimes they
1:26:30don't source it until the very end and
1:26:32you trying to figure out and you see it
1:26:33in so many places like well it must be
1:26:34true i seen every mac side i've seen
1:26:36it's been telling me about this these
1:26:37the specs of this new imac pro like you
1:26:41trace it all back and it's just this one
1:26:42completely on
1:26:43source thing anyway this completely
1:26:44unsourced thing is giving us supposed
1:26:46specs for the imac pro and this one says
1:26:49it will have a intel III 1285 v6 i have
1:26:53no idea what the hell that is it's
1:26:55nothing yeah i think is ram upgrade over
1:26:5832 or 64 ECC memory faster SSDs and up
1:27:04to two terabytes of the SSD size and AMD
1:27:07graphics with support for VR and pro
1:27:09apps whatever the hell that means
1:27:10Thunderbolt 3 USBC gentoo with tada a
1:27:13brand new keyboard for Casey oh right
1:27:15something for everybody alright so
1:27:18basically just to summarize quickly here
1:27:20Xeon e3 it might as well not be as easy
1:27:24on the Xeon e3 is only barely different
1:27:29from the consumer chips the imac already
1:27:32uses the only thing that we get you is
1:27:35support for ECC ram that's pretty good
1:27:37though that's so that that that is
1:27:39something but and so like that i feel
1:27:42like you know if if the imac pro which
1:27:45you know i just assumed whenever we say
1:27:47I'm night pro its and thinker quotes if
1:27:50if the imac pro is something to handle
1:27:55like you know heavy horsepower then
1:27:57that's not gonna do it you know that
1:27:58that's that's what the old imac already
1:28:00has had if it's something to add check
1:28:03marks to make pro stop complaining about
1:28:05certain things it helps a little bit in
1:28:07that area in this is in the sense that
1:28:08it enables ECC ram but that's about it
1:28:11and thunderbolt three and USBC like i'm
1:28:13assuming it has a lot of pci express
1:28:15lanes does i don't know i don't know i
1:28:17don't think it has any more get you have
1:28:18to go to the e5 series like they they're
1:28:21i'm pretty sure has the same pci express
1:28:23configuration as the regular i7 high-end
1:28:25chips because it really is just an i7
1:28:27with like ECC compatibility basically
1:28:30there's there's there's really nothing
1:28:33else to it that's that's literally all
1:28:34it is it is a way you know the III line
1:28:38it is mostly it mostly exists to make
1:28:41cheap server options because it you know
1:28:44servers almost always want to ECC and
1:28:46you know server needs almost always use
1:28:48that like in data centers and stuff and
1:28:51it's a way to basically bring the
1:28:52wonderful economy and power of the
1:28:55consumer i7 line
1:28:56into cheap 1u rackmount servers so it's
1:29:00there's not really a huge benefit and
1:29:03that's why I like remember like about
1:29:05two years ago they started selling not
1:29:07they not Apple but like the pc enter
1:29:09start selling xeon laptops and that was
1:29:13the same kind of thing it was it was
1:29:14based it was like using this III line
1:29:15where it's like yeah that's that's not
1:29:17really anything more than what we had
1:29:18before it's not really anything more
1:29:20than the consumer line so that's same
1:29:22thing here like it would enable ECC but
1:29:25that would be the only advantage that it
1:29:26would have over what we already have any
1:29:28imac that being said it would also not
1:29:31require any additional thermal head room
1:29:33because it isn't a bigger chip it isn't
1:29:36it doesn't have more cores it doesn't
1:29:37have a higher tdv like you know it would
1:29:40be very easy for apple to configure an
1:29:42imac with an e3 so if the idea of the
1:29:44imac pro is to do as little work as
1:29:48possible and check off a few more boxes
1:29:50for pros while changing almost nothing
1:29:52about the imac then okay maybe but
1:29:55that's probably not like that wouldn't
1:29:58be a very compelling product for almost
1:29:59anybody so i hope that isn't what
1:30:01they're doing i hope they're doing more
1:30:02than that well if it's the only one that
1:30:05comes with Thunderbolt three in USBC
1:30:06then something that becomes a lot more
1:30:08attractive because it's not just people
1:30:09who are looking for pro we're buying it
1:30:10it's like anybody who wants basically a
1:30:12modern 105 k imac would buy it's like
1:30:14well if that's the only one that has all
1:30:16the new ports on it I'll get it and if
1:30:18they want that fancy new keyboard right
1:30:19other other ancillary rumors attach this
1:30:22and I keep seeing this and I haven't
1:30:24traced this back to the origin to the
1:30:25fantastical origin but the 8k display
1:30:29apples working on an 8k display for the
1:30:30next generation of macros 8k display has
1:30:34been floating around for a long time is
1:30:35that thing something that anyone is it
1:30:38asking for will tell just shipped one
1:30:41you see like Dell just shipped 145 grand
1:30:43I know I know all right so yeah right
1:30:45but my question is like you like it like
1:30:47it does the size math work out to be
1:30:49something reasonable like like how big
1:30:51would it have to be to keep the current
1:30:53DPI yeah like I think would have to be
1:30:54like 40 inches would it would have to be
1:30:56pretty big I i think you know we we
1:30:59learned from past monitor things and
1:31:01some some like current day ones where
1:31:04you know like you have like that one LG
1:31:06like super wide 35 inch or whatever
1:31:09yep so like we've seen like kind of you
1:31:12know rough idea of what these you know
1:31:13what monitor sizes are and what works
1:31:15and what doesn't we can we can probably
1:31:17agree actually I'm curious John because
1:31:20you're probably the contrarian here what
1:31:23do you think is the largest you know
1:31:25inch diagonal measurement that that a
1:31:28single monitor could reasonably be for
1:31:31practical desktop computer use where you
1:31:34wouldn't have to sit so far back from it
1:31:35that the resolution would be wasted so
1:31:38my answer to that question would
1:31:39probably be maybe like 32 inches maybe
1:31:44at most 35 what do you think I would go
1:31:48up to 42 because I know people who use
1:31:50televisions as their monitors obviously
1:31:52the resolution is horrendous right but
1:31:54they're using like actual televisions as
1:31:56their monitors because they can get to
1:31:57me really big sizes and why because if
1:31:59you have any kind of vision impairment
1:32:01you can't buy a computer monitor that
1:32:03makes things as big as you want that
1:32:05doesn't make it look like you're looking
1:32:06through a tiny little portal so they
1:32:08will get a 42 inch television and putted
1:32:10it like a resolution that we would run a
1:32:1323 inch display at and keep it like
1:32:16normal computer distance from them and
1:32:17just let them see things better so I
1:32:18think it's actually surprising
1:32:20surprisingly big but but that wouldn't
1:32:22be a use case for 8k though ak is
1:32:24talking about like right now you but you
1:32:25just asked about the inch sizes right
1:32:27now in case specifically the reason the
1:32:28reason I'm skeptical the 8k thing is not
1:32:30because I think 8k is not a thing right
1:32:32but just when I envision Apple making a
1:32:34monitor for its Mac Pro I envisioned 8k
1:32:37as a thing that only people who are
1:32:39working like at ILM yet so they can look
1:32:41at their 8k video you know composites or
1:32:43whatever like that you know people who
1:32:44are working with source material shot an
1:32:468k but traditionally Apple has left that
1:32:49market to like the super duper high end
1:32:52color calibrated weird monitors with
1:32:55hoods over them and like like that type
1:32:57of thing Apple has never sold one of
1:32:58those they've always sold a really good
1:33:01monitor for regular people it has great
1:33:02color calibration but always during the
1:33:04entire history of Apple if you go into a
1:33:06very fancy place that even just does
1:33:08stuff with Photoshop or with special
1:33:10effects or whatever you will see one of
1:33:12those really weird i don't think any
1:33:13seam makes a bunch of them or you know
1:33:14one of those really weird monitors just
1:33:17for this specific industry and right now
1:33:20I feel like 8k is in that category the
1:33:22only people who knew
1:33:23k our people who are shooting 8k footage
1:33:25who want to see it displayed in 8k so
1:33:28you want it k monitor but like I'm not
1:33:31going to be sad if Apple makes one I
1:33:32think it'll be awesome but that seems
1:33:34such like such a narrow thing that Apple
1:33:37is going to go from we're not making a
1:33:38matter at all to guess what i'm making
1:33:40an 8k one and to get back to where you
1:33:41were saying Marco if they do make an 8k
1:33:43one I hope it's not the only one because
1:33:46i really don't i personally don't
1:33:49actually want a 40 inch monitor and I
1:33:51think 8k at 27 or 30 inches is overkill
1:33:54for my needs so if they only make an 8k
1:33:56monitor it's going to be super expensive
1:33:58and be oh god I probably actually buy it
1:34:01too would not like oh you would it's not
1:34:05it's not what I want out of modern I'm
1:34:06thinking they're going to make a 5k
1:34:08display because I think 5k is in the
1:34:09spot where Apple usually makes monitors
1:34:11and they leave a k2 Dell and NEC and
1:34:14viewsonic and whoever else is making
1:34:16these monitors for for professional
1:34:18things that you can already buy today
1:34:20but we'll see the 8k rumor won't die
1:34:23anything else on the mac pro kids
1:34:26there's always said you why do you even
1:34:28keep asking that you know if you just
1:34:29stopped asking that and just moved on
1:34:31you would like catch us off guard no
1:34:34because that there's more unfortunately
1:34:35perkasie two related stories that were
1:34:39in the notes last week or what least one
1:34:41of them was and we didn't get to it that
1:34:43may or may not be related the more
1:34:45recent one is Nvidia's announcement that
1:34:48their new graphics cards have mac
1:34:51support and you're like what what do you
1:34:54mean by that there are no max with card
1:34:56slots what are you talking about how can
1:34:58you have mac support but it's like oh
1:35:00yeah all those cheese graters yeah you
1:35:02can put these things in there so Nvidia
1:35:04is offering drivers for its Pascal based
1:35:08GPUs that's their latest architecture of
1:35:09GPUs and this is the the titan nvidia
1:35:12titan XP as their product they are
1:35:13launching but the drivers they're making
1:35:15will work with any pascal based GPU
1:35:17apparently on the mac and why would they
1:35:20do that I mean people will choose
1:35:23graders can buy them and you know or
1:35:25people with hackintosh is right we want
1:35:27to run mac OS and do all this stuff and
1:35:29Apple didn't ship drivers for this
1:35:32because they don't ship any machines
1:35:34with Pascal GP using them as far
1:35:35I'm aware like it do they have a Pascal
1:35:37base 11 of the portables I forget maybe
1:35:39the chat room people tell me but anyway
1:35:40I don't think Apple ships nvidia
1:35:42anything right now apple an apple an
1:35:44nvidia had seemed to have some kind of
1:35:46major fallout and they I think they ship
1:35:48ati stuff or AMD stuff now everywhere
1:35:51which is kind of a problem like you know
1:35:53we we keep hearing I don't want to see
1:35:56what you're going to say if you're gross
1:35:56sales but we keep hearing from people
1:35:58who know this stuff that like really
1:36:01NVIDIA has has kicked AMD's butt so hard
1:36:03and GPUs and things like GPUs like those
1:36:06like parallel computing cards recently
1:36:08that Apple really really apparently if
1:36:13they want to be competitive in these
1:36:14high-end GPU areas they should really
1:36:17consider going back to Nvidia and it
1:36:20seems like for for whatever reason
1:36:22possibly some kind of weird like
1:36:24business disagreement or history they
1:36:26have been unwilling to do that so far
1:36:28but maybe they should reconsider now
1:36:30they're try to address pros better so
1:36:33that balance of power between AMD and
1:36:35NVIDIA it has swung around it's not like
1:36:37Intel and AMD where Intel just dominated
1:36:40it has come back from the bruising of
1:36:43the athlon age as we discussed in a past
1:36:45show has just dominated for a long time
1:36:47and like rising is just like the the
1:36:49turn around possibly now but AMD Nvidia
1:36:52have traded the lead many times and
1:36:54specifically for apples purposes not
1:36:58talking about the highest the high end
1:36:59which Apple has been ignoring anyway
1:37:01very often the ati or AMD part actually
1:37:03is the right choice for specific things
1:37:06but if your concern is i want the best
1:37:10performance in a given thermal envelope
1:37:12or whatever and that thermal envelope
1:37:14isn't really really low nvidia is
1:37:16currently the leader that could change
1:37:19with the next generation of GPUs but
1:37:22either way Apple has nothing in any of
1:37:25its product and hasn't for many many
1:37:26years that could be considered a
1:37:28high-end GPU none just they don't they
1:37:30don't sell them they didn't even when
1:37:32the 2013 trashcan Mac Pro was brand new
1:37:35the day it was released today was
1:37:38announced for that matter you could buy
1:37:40faster cards and put the new pcs single
1:37:42cards double cards everything I'm pretty
1:37:44sure like the last time they had
1:37:46competitive GPUs was when
1:37:49you and at the time i bought the 2008
1:37:51mac pro and you could for two hundred
1:37:54dollars get an nvidia 8800 GT and at the
1:37:57time that was like an upper mid-range
1:37:58card and we're like oh that's Brett's a
1:38:00nice option thanks yeah it was it was a
1:38:02decent car long time ago yeah and always
1:38:04there has been there have been
1:38:06third-party people like buying pc cards
1:38:08and flashing the firmware and stuff and
1:38:09it was just a matter of like does apple
1:38:11support this GPU architecture because if
1:38:12they supported it sometimes the drivers
1:38:14would work with the higher end cards
1:38:15that were just overclocked or just had
1:38:16more vram and stuff like that and so
1:38:18this announcement by nvidia has a lot of
1:38:21people thinking maybe maybe the new pack
1:38:23that apple just admitted they were
1:38:25creating like three days ago maybe it's
1:38:27going to use pascal base GPUs and and
1:38:29you know what that would be awesome and
1:38:31i hope it does because they're really
1:38:33good right but i can't draw any kind of
1:38:36same connecting line between nvidia
1:38:38supporting max with its current crop of
1:38:42lines and anything that Apple's going to
1:38:44do by its as-yet-unknown to anybody
1:38:46outside Apple Mac Pro project so I can't
1:38:51connect those lines but I really
1:38:52sincerely do hope that an option on the
1:38:56new Mac Pro is the highest of high end
1:38:58video cards from Nvidia because that
1:39:01would be awesome and they kept talking
1:39:03about how people want a single really
1:39:05fast GPU and this is sing a really fast
1:39:07EPO for all we know Apple could have
1:39:09made a deal with NVIDIA for them to
1:39:10develop these drivers because like
1:39:12that's that's the only line i can draw
1:39:13is like why the heck is envy doing this
1:39:14are they so desperate for money that
1:39:15they want the seven people who have hack
1:39:17and dodges to buy this card and put it
1:39:18in right like what why because making
1:39:22drivers for making mac drivers for a
1:39:25video card is non-trivial it's it's a
1:39:28difficult thing to do working with
1:39:30apples you know driver stack so
1:39:32different from windows and for what
1:39:34benefit so maybe there was some kind of
1:39:37agreement or money changing hands to
1:39:39have nvidia do this sometime in the
1:39:42past-- and they're just like well while
1:39:44we wait to be in the new mac pro will
1:39:45sell this to people or whatever i don't
1:39:48know but anyway i'm excited about this
1:39:49people who have cheese graters who are
1:39:51more that are more modern than mine that
1:39:53actually run this i believe i can't run
1:39:54this in mind because i think it requires
1:39:55more pieces you can even run sierra you
1:39:59know yeah I can hear it anyway this
1:40:02seems like an X
1:40:03announcement for a very small group of
1:40:04mech nerds I'm excited by the prospect
1:40:06of a very super high-end GPU and if
1:40:09you're dramatic pro but for now I can't
1:40:13I can't connect the dots on this to say
1:40:15that this means anything about what what
1:40:17GPU the next Mac Pro is going to have
1:40:18and related to this is the older story
1:40:22which is about apple moving away from
1:40:25imagination the power be our power VR
1:40:29GPUs that it uses in all of its iOS
1:40:31products for many many years speaking of
1:40:33of GPUs Apple's GPUs in its iOS devices
1:40:36have been awesome they have been
1:40:39amazingly good they always show that
1:40:41graph that shows look how crappier GPUs
1:40:43were in the beginning of the of the iOS
1:40:45devices before we even called it iOS and
1:40:47look at this curve every time we come up
1:40:50with the new product the GP was like
1:40:51super duper faster it's like it's not
1:40:53linear it's like going up like a hockey
1:40:55stick if we are kicking butt on GPUs and
1:40:57look what we can do with these games and
1:40:58you know and it's true they have been
1:41:01doing a really good job with the GPUs
1:41:02and for I think for the entire life of
1:41:05iOS devices they have been using power
1:41:09vr base GPUs with intellectual property
1:41:12license from imagination technology and
1:41:14imagination technology put out this
1:41:18press release is very sad angry press
1:41:20release that's like Apple tells us
1:41:23they're not going to be using our
1:41:24intellectual property anymore and Apple
1:41:27by the way is like more than fifty
1:41:28percent of our revenue but we think
1:41:30basically it's impossible to make a
1:41:33modern GPU without infringing our
1:41:35intellectual property which by the way
1:41:36is another reason the patent system is
1:41:38ridiculous I like little biz Apple no is
1:41:40literally impossible to make a modern
1:41:42GPU without our intellectual property
1:41:43right so we own these ideas forevermore
1:41:47or like whatever the ridiculous term
1:41:49limit is on patents but Joanne patents
1:41:53are to foster innovation without patents
1:41:56nobody would innovate no one would ever
1:41:58be able to make a GP without these ideas
1:42:00that are not obvious to everybody who is
1:42:02what is it obvious to people verse the
1:42:05well versed in the art anyway I hate
1:42:06patents but but apple says there they
1:42:10are not licensing this technology which
1:42:12means that Apple is going to make GPUs
1:42:14for its iOS devices presumably
1:42:16or when you know whatever they do
1:42:18they're not going to make GPUs or
1:42:19they're going to make GPUs license from
1:42:21somebody else or they're going to make
1:42:22their own Apple has as Phil Schiller
1:42:25points out or one of the people points
1:42:26out one of the best chip design groups
1:42:29in the world arguably the best going
1:42:31based on how good their system-on-chips
1:42:33are for their devices and like have you
1:42:35seen like have you seen liked hit the
1:42:36benchmarks of the new samsung s 80 River
1:42:39it's like it matches the performance of
1:42:41like the iphone 6s like two generations
1:42:43behind and yeah their apple is doing
1:42:46amazing like they're making these chips
1:42:48themselves yes its arm its arm based
1:42:50technology and they have that license
1:42:51from arm to use the instruction set and
1:42:53all that other stuff or whatever and yes
1:42:54their licensing GPU stuff from power boo
1:42:57yarbrough but Apple make no mistake
1:42:59Apple is designing these things ever
1:43:00since the the confusingly named swift
1:43:02CPU actually it was the first one that
1:43:04they really like did themselves from
1:43:06scratch as the iphone 5 right yeah
1:43:08they're they're doing amazing so I have
1:43:11zero doubt that if Apple wanted to they
1:43:13have the in-house expertise to make an
1:43:15amazing GPU for the next iPhone whether
1:43:18or not infringed on patents who the hell
1:43:20knows what the lawyers fight it out if
1:43:21the camels going to win that one because
1:43:22they have more money and that's how our
1:43:23legal system works like you know what if
1:43:27you imagination we're going to buy your
1:43:28company done and done we win and that's
1:43:32and that's their worst case scenario so
1:43:34Apple will not lose this or they could
1:43:39be licensing someone else's think but
1:43:41combining the new Mac Pro rumor which
1:43:43now it affects everything but that is
1:43:46discussed at surrounding the Mac it's
1:43:48like does this mean Apple is going to
1:43:49make their own GPUs for the new Mac Pro
1:43:51and while I think that would be amazing
1:43:54and fantastical i'm going to say Noah
1:43:56yeah that makes no sense because because
1:43:59Apple already doesn't like the ROI on
1:44:02the Mac Pro reportedly and and in fact
1:44:05they seem to not like it so much they
1:44:07didn't even make one they just barely
1:44:08decided to make one the if Apple is
1:44:11making a GPU architecture they're making
1:44:13it for iOS devices and I have a hard
1:44:16time believing that the GPU design could
1:44:19even be adapted from iOS devices to
1:44:23something like the new mac pro so I'm
1:44:25thinking the new Mac Pro will not have a
1:44:27GPU of Apple's own design
1:44:29I'm hoping it will have a super I an
1:44:32NVIDIA GPU or at least the the best
1:44:34whatever the best architecture is that
1:44:36AMD has Africa what this is called is it
1:44:38Maxwell and I remember maybe that's
1:44:40another end video on and I don't think
1:44:44the the imagination rumor is connected
1:44:46to the mac pro either it does make me
1:44:47kind of excited about what the next
1:44:49iPhone you know and the GPUs are going
1:44:52to look like they're because like
1:44:53presumably Apple is ditching imagination
1:44:57for some benefit and I don't think the
1:44:59benefit is the relatively piddling
1:45:02amount of money they pay it's like only
1:45:03so only 75 million dollars a year which
1:45:06is a lot of money to imagination
1:45:07technologies apparently is like you know
1:45:08the Apple is their biggest customer it's
1:45:10like more than half of their revenue but
1:45:12Apple sneezes in 75 million dollars
1:45:14comes out and falls on the carpet like I
1:45:15thought that's how much they got so much
1:45:16they they spend for snacks at the the
1:45:19defunct Apple car project right yeah so
1:45:25I think they wanted to do it for the
1:45:27same reason they do or they want I want
1:45:28to control the blah blah blah technology
1:45:30blah blah blah and I bet they have some
1:45:32good ideas about you know that that chip
1:45:35team is like we have some good ideas
1:45:36about how to do a GPU in ways that are
1:45:40are there our own our own ideas why
1:45:43don't we do it why do we need this
1:45:44imagination technology stuff anymore we
1:45:46have all the expertise in-house to make
1:45:47an amazing GPU ourselves we don't need
1:45:49them anymore it will free us up to do
1:45:51what we want now there's a couple of
1:45:53good articles about this is saying all
1:45:54right so Apple could do this but there
1:45:57is an entire software ecosystem built up
1:45:59around the power of the architecture
1:46:02that take advantage of features of the
1:46:05power of ER architecture that are tuned
1:46:08to work well on that architecture in
1:46:10terms of you know for games you can get
1:46:12really low level type of stuff like
1:46:14things that perform particularly well on
1:46:15a particular chip with a particular set
1:46:17of execution units in a particular
1:46:18arrangement with particular latencies
1:46:20that's how game development works a lot
1:46:21of the time especially as you get up
1:46:23towards the high end if Apple makes a
1:46:25new GPU that has very different
1:46:28characteristics or that doesn't support
1:46:29any of these weird power vr specific
1:46:32extensions that are there are things
1:46:35that game developers can use or could
1:46:38have used in the past that may be a
1:46:40problem for iOS game compatibility
1:46:43like metal may help with this because
1:46:46presumably metal provides I mean it's
1:46:49it's less of an abstraction layer than
1:46:51OpenGL but it's more than like writing
1:46:54against the you know the bare metal of
1:46:56the GPU so there could be troubled
1:46:59waters at for iOS game performance but I
1:47:02have faith that Apple knows about all
1:47:04these issues and will have software
1:47:06based solutions and because their new
1:47:07GPU will be so much faster than the old
1:47:09ones games tuned for the power via our
1:47:11performance specifics they'll get by on
1:47:13the know in just because it's it's so
1:47:14much faster so this this development
1:47:17this sort of corporate divorce divorce
1:47:19makes me excited to see what what the
1:47:22next GPU will be like and I assume it's
1:47:25like the not this year's one but next
1:47:27year's like might as well find out this
1:47:29soon as the iphone 8 or whatever they're
1:47:30going to call it comes out and someone
1:47:31checks it out and see it sees if it has
1:47:33a power via our base to GPU in there but
1:47:36i'm kind of excited about that but i
1:47:38don't think it's related to the mac pro
1:47:40yeah i agree completely there's no way
1:47:43that is connected to the mac pro the
1:47:45timing is a coincidence yeah there's no
1:47:47way i also think you know with with the
1:47:49with the idea of like you know changing
1:47:51it and being a problem for games i don't
1:47:54think it's that big of a deal because
1:47:56there aren't that many people writing
1:47:59high-performance low-level game engines
1:48:01at that you know at that level on for
1:48:04iOS or for anything really you know
1:48:06there's not a lot of original low-level
1:48:08game engines being written at any given
1:48:10time you know most games that come at
1:48:12are using someone else's engine so it's
1:48:16it's a relatively small number of like
1:48:19engine providers and authors that will
1:48:21need to adapt to any changes like this
1:48:23anyway and the fact is enough I phones
1:48:27are sold that if the new iPhones from
1:48:30this point forward have this
1:48:31architecture every mobile game developer
1:48:34is going to demand support for that and
1:48:36so the engine makers are going to do it
1:48:38so it it's really not an issue like
1:48:41that's that's not going to be a problem
1:48:42at all yeah it's still it's still better
1:48:45at same thing on game columns like
1:48:46consoles these days we're like game
1:48:48consoles will feel free to rev their
1:48:50hardware and then
1:48:51console game developers just deal with
1:48:53it like when the PSP s4 pro comes out or
1:48:56the Scorpio like this lik well the
1:48:58hardware changed in a way that we have
1:49:00never optimized for but then again also
1:49:02the hardware is faster as this new GPU
1:49:03will faster as well and they figure it
1:49:05out because that's how you make as how
1:49:07you make the money how you sell the
1:49:09games thanks for our three sponsors this
1:49:12week Squarespace audible and fracture we
1:49:15will see you next week now the show is
1:49:21over they didn't even mean to begin cuz
1:49:25it was accidental oh it was accidental
1:49:28John didn't do any research Marco and
1:49:33Casey wouldn't let him cuz it was
1:49:36accidental it was accidental and you can
1:49:41find the show notes at ATP FM and if
1:49:46you're into twitter you can follow them
1:49:50at cas Eyl ISS so that's Casey list ma
1:49:56RTO a RM can t marco arment as I r kc
1:50:03USA Syracuse
1:50:18ah so once i went back and listened to
1:50:21the tape last time it certainly does
1:50:23appear that i'm going to win the bet in
1:50:24all likelihood because I never I never
1:50:27bet on it being unmodified I just said
1:50:29if the 2013 Mac Pro is still for sale on
1:50:31january first that's gonna make someone
1:50:35did provide a link that i actually
1:50:37removed from follow up that was like see
1:50:39look they didn't change the name of it
1:50:40and they gave me a link to the page that
1:50:42talks about the 2013 but i couldn't find
1:50:44anything on the page that said that it
1:50:46wasn't just like a page hadn't yet been
1:50:47updated like nothing about it indicated
1:50:49that that page was aware that they did
1:50:51the reconfiguration thing but anyway I
1:50:53everything that I've seen indicates to
1:50:56me that this is just a price drop and a
1:50:59model elimination and everything about
1:51:01them will be exactly the same including
1:51:04the name and the model number and so no
1:51:06even on the strictest possible
1:51:08definition they could still be for sale
1:51:10yeah so I won't do clear victory until
1:51:12January first but I am confident that
1:51:14i'm most likely to win this you should
1:51:17just start scrounging for money in your
1:51:18couch kch day if you find any change
1:51:20there a little jar and by the end of the
1:51:23air you'll have five dollars now
1:51:24remember I found five dollars at the end
1:51:26of last week's story so we're going and
1:51:32some well we don't worry at some point
1:51:33we're going to talk about something else
1:51:34just that time is not today I'm
1:51:37skeptical it's probably not until 2018
1:51:41actually no and then in 2018 it'll be Oh
1:51:44where's the mac pro where's the mac pro
1:51:46where's the macro it's not here where's
1:51:48Mac Pro it's not here why isn't it here
1:51:50Apple is doomed where's the mac pro it's
1:51:52not here they already said it didn't
1:51:54even say was gonna come in 2018 so we're
1:51:56already we're already saying it might
1:51:58not be here to play 19 so our
1:51:59expectations are appropriately set will
1:52:01be like that's gonna stop you too they
1:52:04totally like this I seriously though
1:52:06this announcement that they're doing
1:52:08this thing gets rid of a lot of anxiety
1:52:12it's like it's just a matter of what we
1:52:13used to before say it's just a matter of
1:52:15when but we didn't know now we know they
1:52:17put a stake in the ground they said
1:52:19words they made promises they're going
1:52:20to keep them like it's gonna happen it's
1:52:22gonna happen for us I know it mmm then
1:52:26we can plan what they release that's
1:52:27where the good stuff is after they
1:52:29release something or announce it
1:52:30everything in between to like
1:52:32if they preview it at you know a fall
1:52:34event or WTC or whatever else then we
1:52:37can nitpick the preview to death that
1:52:39that's at least two episodes yep then we
1:52:41can say like they said they were gonna
1:52:43make the parts upgradeable but
1:52:44everything is soldered to this
1:52:45motherboard what were they thinking that
1:52:46they just mean that they're gonna create
1:52:48an a they won't even upgrade it if
1:52:49everything is soldered on yeah well have
1:52:52fun there but but now they said so many
1:52:54of the right things is just that this
1:52:56this is going to be a long honeymoon
1:52:57period for me to just imagine how
1:52:59awesomeness things going to be and then
1:53:01a three-year-long just tirade about how
1:53:06it doesn't meet your every expectation
1:53:07I'm still even considering buying the
1:53:11imac pro like in addition to the mat
1:53:14just has been so long so they bought a
1:53:16mac i should do a marco thing where i'm
1:53:17gonna buy the imac pro keep it for a
1:53:19little while sell it by the mac pro
1:53:21because I i had the mac pro for only
1:53:23about 9 or 10 months before the 5k came
1:53:26out and i didn't lose that much money on
1:53:28it like I lost I think like fifteen
1:53:31percent or something over like you know
1:53:34almost a year that I consider that
1:53:36pretty good yeah do you think I a
1:53:38macbook adorable update is eminent cuz
1:53:41I'm really itching to buy one you mean
1:53:42the speed bump sorry I blows and do
1:53:44those anymore it's really it honestly is
1:53:48a very good question like where the heck
1:53:50that is because it sure seems like you
1:53:53know that that probably should have come
1:53:54out this spring pretty sure the trip was
1:53:56available but you know at me there could
1:53:59be seen a like now we don't know before
1:54:01we could just say it's just Tim Cook
1:54:03being you know Tim Cook now we can say
1:54:05maybe they're rethinking things maybe
1:54:06like now we can be a little more
1:54:08optimistic and like well maybe maybe
1:54:09they're doing something else well like I
1:54:12said when you talked about the mac mini
1:54:13just because they've realized that if
1:54:16you want a high-end computer you have to
1:54:17update it like they've clearly made that
1:54:19realization that a they do want a lion
1:54:21computer and be you can't have my
1:54:22computer you don't update it right that
1:54:24doesn't mean they made that same
1:54:25realization but anything else in the
1:54:26product line because they could be
1:54:28saying as you go down the line it's like
1:54:29you can have a macbook adorable that we
1:54:31never update it's not a high-end product
1:54:33nobody cares about performance it's fine
1:54:34why why waste time updating it every
1:54:36year with speed bumps you know and like
1:54:38that that's one of those things like so
1:54:40many things that Apple reconsider is
1:54:41like why does a computer have to have an
1:54:43opt
1:54:43dr why why the batteries have to be
1:54:45removable laptops right all these things
1:54:47that other companies won't consider one
1:54:50of the one of the recent ones that Apple
1:54:52has adopted is do you have to speed bump
1:54:56computers every year just because new
1:54:57components are available and apples
1:54:59answer bus no no you don't like our
1:55:02sales don't seem to suffer from it in
1:55:04fact maybe they do better because we
1:55:05built up all this demand among the
1:55:06people who know that our computers are
1:55:08old and crappy that we have these big
1:55:09spikes when we release new things so
1:55:12maybe you don't have to do that now on
1:55:13the high end they've changed their mind
1:55:15but the whole rest of the line I will
1:55:18need to be convinced that they realize
1:55:19that speed bumps are a thing that they
1:55:20should go back to doing and honestly I
1:55:22don't know if they should quote unquote
1:55:24should for the business we all want them
1:55:26tech nerds get upset that like speed
1:55:29bumps don't happen but maybe they're
1:55:31right for non high-end products that the
1:55:33customers for those products don't care
1:55:36and we'll just keep buying the macbook
1:55:37adorable and updated every two years or
1:55:39every three years or whatever and it
1:55:40will be fine and and honestly I can kind
1:55:42of get on the same page with them if
1:55:44they have the numbers to back that up
1:55:45because the role of those products is
1:55:47not to be the very fastest thing you can
1:55:49get and when you do comparisons against
1:55:51competitive products it's like what we
1:55:53got mac OS you can't design apples to
1:55:55apples comparison haha because who cares
1:55:57if you can buy a dell laptop for way
1:55:59cheaper that has updated components no
1:56:02Mac OS so that could be what they're
1:56:05saying now I hope they go back to speed
1:56:08bumps because I think it's just a
1:56:09healthier thing to do overall and the
1:56:10lack of speed bumps makes technical
1:56:12people angry at Apple which spills over
1:56:14into our attitudes about everything else
1:56:15that they do but who knows but anyway
1:56:17they made the right decision in the mac
1:56:18pro again I'm still basking in that some
1:56:20honeymoon period you know if you look at
1:56:24the if you look at the macrumors buyer's
1:56:26guide macbook don't buy macbook air
1:56:28don't buy macbook pro yeah imac don't
1:56:31buy mac mini don't buy mac pro by now i
1:56:35can't i can't believe they did that like
1:56:37it's like a bug in their systems like
1:56:38yeah i know they quote unquote updated
1:56:42it by changing prices but like you got
1:56:44to turn that back to don't buy like
1:56:47don't don't buy that yeah there's no way
1:56:49that is earned there is no way that's a
1:56:52bug that is earned even less than the
1:56:54new badge was when we started this show
1:56:55from 10-12 mac pro
1:56:57is it still that way because I saw those
1:56:59same screen shots when people screens
1:57:00haha look at this isn't as funny their
1:57:02buggy software put it as a bi but it's
1:57:04still there maybe I mean someone at
1:57:05macrumors actually think so it's I would
1:57:06looked a minute ago they never change
1:57:08still there it right there right on top
1:57:10by now it says buy now price drop so it
1:57:13at least clarifies that it's not an
1:57:15update but but don't but don't buy now
1:57:18no one should buy those unless you have
1:57:20less you have to less you know you have
1:57:23to because like whatever reason that
1:57:25Casey's co-worker means about right but
1:57:27regular people don't buy those it did
1:57:29not improve no and the price drop if if
1:57:32they had dropped the price is fifty
1:57:33bucks yeah definitely buy right but I
1:57:35didn't know it feel pretty darn
1:57:38expensive you should not buy it yeah now
1:57:41to get a good configuration instead of
1:57:42spending seven thousand dollars you'll
1:57:43spend five thousand dollars still
1:57:45probably not or spending for almost four
1:57:48year old computer for a computer that
1:57:50your phone beats into yeah marks well
1:57:52it's not that bad but it's not great
1:57:54there's a refurb macbook adorables I
1:57:58know my brain is telling me no but my
1:58:01heart is saying yes don't just don't I I
1:58:04want one though I'm sick of having an
1:58:07iPad that doesn't let me get anything
1:58:08done on it imagine if I pets actually
1:58:12worked for getting things done I'd be
1:58:13amazing oh my god