Roderick on the Line

Ep. 243: "Hoeing My Till"



  hello hi John

  hi Merlin how's it going

  good it's been a long time it's been a

  long time you sound good

  oh hey that's nice thank you you sound

  good too thank you

  do I sound like I have a new power

  supply on my computer I can feel the

  clean power 300 watts yeah huh mm-hmm

  I can feel it it's like a like an SVT

  just putting that clean thump thump

  loved so does that that's a power supply

  inside the computer or do you talk about

  the outboards like a power brick no it's

  uh it's a classic I had classic symptoms

  of a classic problem it was classic oh

  not hard to fix oh that's classic but

  it's you know it is a I mentioned this

  in some other places but this is worth

  mentioning because I think this is the

  kind of thing that probably well I feel

  like I know drives you crazy

  it's here's how this evidences to

  Tuesday nights ago I'm just doing my

  thing on my computer and I don't do as

  you do and it goes away as the beer goes

  away well as though basically some

  import sprite had just disconnected to

  power like pulled the movement out of

  the outlet it goes away from I think oh

  oh that's not optimal so I'm going back

  I bring it back up I think you know

  probably one-time thing I will go

  through this whole thing but it's yeah

  it's one of those kinds of problems

  that's difficult it's difficult to

  reproduce because the nature of the

  problem the evidence is itself in fairly

  random things so then step two of that

  is I start doing the troubleshooting

  which is you know it involves a lot of

  like incantations and chicken bones and

  then you just wait but there's something

  a peculiar kind of purgatory to being

  nearly certain that the tool that you're

  using is going to break at any second

  you have a very different view of how

  you use that device when you know that

  it could go any second oh yeah it's a

  strip but I mean you've had this part

  like you wonder if that is the power

  going to go out because my phone battery

  going to die

  but in this case it's even worse because

  I'm like okay well I no need to leave

  this running and test this thing but I

  you know I want to do stuff still I'm in

  the early stages of grieving where I

  like I haven't like got my mind right

  you know yeah you haven't gotten your

  mind right

  that's terrible feeling and so I'm just

  sitting there way and then it goes but

  then I go okay

  gotta get fresh set of chicken bones I

  have a used type of delay pedal that

  would just sometimes go into demo mode


  huh like like you're over at the store

  and you want to show off what the thing

  can do yeah yeah the the the the mode

  that I'm not even sure why it's built

  into the thing you should just if you're

  a company like that you should just

  build one that's a demo and give it to

  Guitar Center and it can sit and demo

  but all of them had built into it this

  like sort of cycle through everything it

  does so that I guess you could sit a

  guitar Center and just turn on this

  feature and and these are strum yeah and

  then hit here it goes through it saying

  but it would go into it just sort of

  randomly and it happened one night we

  were playing with the Decembrists in

  Boston and it was right when the

  Decembrists were getting big and it was

  kind of right when the long winters were

  getting big and it was a it was a big

  show and it was one of those shows that

  hadn't expected to sell like buzz had

  accumulated while you yeah yeah yeah we

  were out you know the early shows on

  that tour were not very well attended

  and by the middle of the tour the shows

  were sold out and by the end of the tour

  the shows were getting moved to a bigger

  venue kind of what you always hope for

  and so it's Boston and there's you know

  that it's oversold right there kids kind

  of hanging on the walls and halfway

  through our set my delay pedal goes into

  demo mode oh my god and when it went

  into demo mode the normal way that you

  turned it

  no longer worked you couldn't just like

  the delay pedals on click the switch it

  goes off but when it's in demo mode no

  there is no switch to click off because

  it's cycling through every and so it

  just has to do its thing it just has to

  run its course oh my god and so I said

  there through an entire song and just

  you know and it's a it's a delay pedal

  right so it's like here's what it can do

  Wow Wow wait while you're trying to play

  rock and roll power chords yeah I

  planned you know stupid or whatever and

  uh and it was really it was really fun

  it was fun for me that was back at a

  time when I had a real sense of humor

  about things you so I could use it you

  guess and it ah really I was just

  sitting there thinking to myself if I

  could be on the shop floor of line 6

  right now mmm it grabbed the foreman I'm

  just like ghost of Christmas past this

  used to be equipment that you could save

  your life you'd be hanging from a thread

  yeah yeah that's right yeah you need

  those things to be tough I've had a lot

  of pedals over the years well first of

  all there's just always the thing of

  like it's at least back in my time this

  might have changed it was always

  difficult to know without tasting your

  9-volt like exactly how much juice you

  had left yeah okay flat my bolt yeah

  right all right up here um but like you

  know if you were in the middle of some

  ragin solo and suddenly the signal gets

  real quiet and then just goes away or

  something like that

  that's that would be the worst also I

  had a lot I think you know you notice

  with stomp boxes you get them and you

  just use them forever and they get

  treated terribly and clumped around

  there are a couple that had ace I

  remember in particular it was my wasn't

  an Ibanez it was the boss distortion +

  feedback pedal that orange pedal that I

  use it for lots that is a pretty shitty

  sound but I got a bad pedal but it's but

  it was fun to see like what it would

  come up with what feedback to make given

  what you were doing it would be so

  random and weird but uh that

  had a loose a quarter-inch I want to say

  on the input jack and sometimes you just

  revert to a clean signal we just like go

  up I need to reset myself now your cat


  ah you know it's frustrating when you

  can't depend on things it is well in

  fact right now I'm trying to send some

  I'm trying to send some texts from my

  laptop to people I'm trying to say look

  I can't make it to lunch today yeah and

  uh the machine has decided that I can no

  longer send text because my password has

  changed and my password has changed

  because sometimes we some time recently

  it forced me to change my password

  because of something you know there was

  some reason that it needed something

  different they did something to be

  different all right because I I plugged

  in my my iPad which I hadn't used in a

  while because I wanted to start using it

  as a drum machine I thought that was a

  good idea so I plugged my iPad in it

  told me that it needed to have a new

  operating system I tried to ignore it it

  said that didn't want me to try tonight

  did I want that's right did I want to

  sync my iTunes with it I said no it said

  or that then it said you know all this

  stuff and I finally surrendered it was

  like alright okay fine I'll fine like

  I've sworn I will never do this but this

  time will be different won't it Apple

  this time will be different this time

  you'll do it'll be logical it'll be

  natural you won't you won't ask me to

  upgrade a thing if that upgrade will

  brick the thing you would know

  internally you would know that it

  couldn't handle it and you wouldn't ask

  so I'm going to trust you and so I went

  on and it gave me some cryptic message

  like there can only be one iTunes

  account would you like them would you

  like this to be that or


  they know I know I don't hit the wrong

  thing because the the consequences are

  unknown and so that consequences are

  unknown that's precisely right it's not

  that you know them because the languages

  there's it's a huge deal I mean there's

  one you probably got in the last couple

  years which was something along the

  lines of f you updated iOS it said

  something like do you want to switch

  over to cloud drive or something like

  that and you go you'd normally personal

  of course I want to switch over to cloud

  drive or whatever the F it's called but

  like this if what it didn't tell you was

  that that was an iOS only feature it was

  not available on your Mac and the way

  that your all your cloud stuff work

  would change fundamentally you might not

  be able to get to some of it until the

  operating system on your computer was

  updated but that's the but that's you

  know what that doesn't fit in a pop up

  message well and so what happened was I

  put this thing on which had uh you know

  eight hundred songs on it and it spent

  an hour but churning yeah I thought I

  was like I was like huh that's


  and then when it came back up all my

  music was gone because it had synced to

  an iTunes - it synced to the iTunes on

  my computer that had come with a free

  michael franti CD and that u2 album yeah

  tell me so oh no this is bad all that's

  on my iPad now is nothing and put a new

  iOS on there that that has now turned it

  into a thing where if you touch

  something on the screen it thinks about

  it for a while it goes and makes a pot

  of coffee and it comes back and it

  decides whether or not it's going to

  follow through you're currently

  evaluating your requests

  yeah and half of the apps crash the

  thing now I mean it was like the thing

  was better the iPad was more useful when

  I was using it as a hot like a like a

  trivet yeah sure he put a put a pan on

  there yeah than it is now that don't

  have any OS it just makes me want to

  kill but you know I will help you sell

  troubleshooting that

  might be useful it seems like it's it

  seems like it's done right the music's


  what is the troubleshooting like the

  music they just they evaporated it well

  right not still that stuff I want to

  save for after we're done recording but

  there's some good security hygiene you

  should do it sure at your earliest

  opportunity and that's one thing but uh

  you know it depends it might be confused

  about if you have more than one Apple ID

  this is a very confusing matter this did

  not used to be such a confusing matter

  lots of people when they signed up for

  Apple stuff at the time it required an

  Apple ID got a new Apple ID that could

  be me Mac iCloud it could be Gmail it

  could be whatever you signed up with

  it's very confusing and a lot of people

  don't know that they have more than one

  Apple ID where the username and the

  password match and so if you enter in

  the wrong one very confusing things

  happen because you're basically asking

  it for an entire different set of files

  so was that stuff that you had synced

  directly to the iPad with iTunes

  previously like with a tethered


  this isn't here's the problem for many

  many years I had that that desktop that

  I've used over the years to record our

  program and that was my main computer

  and that's the thing that I synced my

  phone to and that I synced my iPad to

  yeah then I bought a laptop and when I

  arrived with the laptop it we were past

  the we were past the border into the

  clewd mmm

  and and so the new laptop was like hello

  welcome to computing it says though

  you've never heard of a computer before

  so would you like me to it looks like

  you're trying to compose a message would

  you like to walk through how that the

  miracle of in of the cloud man and I was

  like yeah I just I got I believe me I've

  used computer before thank you let me

  just get to where I was you know and

  they're like oh well you know you can

  keep all your music in the cloud and I

  was like I don't think I can I mean over

  the years I've already had this problem

  where they're like oh this you don't you

  know this song

  that you've been listening to for five

  years now you don't have access to it

  because at some point in 1999 somebody

  gave this to you right and it was fine

  for a long time but now it's not fine

  anymore little groups of eco type

  situation where it's really sounds great

  until you get there and then you're like

  oh shit this is not going to work at all

  for what I'm going to accomplish

  and when of course it does stuff like in

  the last few years last two three years

  it started doing stuff like where Apple

  will for the first time ever incorrectly

  guess what your music is and then the

  metadata is like now this is associated

  with some obscure Led Zeppelin live

  album you like no that's not what this

  is right and then you lose them

  consequently you guys stuff because when

  the metadata is wrong now there's a very

  good chance things will just get lost

  because it's not what it looks like it

  looks like garbage now I have no idea

  how to get the I mean because on my on

  my desktop I have 50,000 songs or you

  know I have like the all the music of

  that I've had over the my whole computer

  life I have no idea how to get those

  into the cloud and I don't want to know

  because every time I log on now the

  cloud tells me that I don't have enough

  storage so I know I don't have enough

  storage for 50,000 songs because all I

  have on there is like a copy of the book

  that I'm writing and uh what like to I

  don't know I didn't even know what I

  have on there it's nothing to I have

  they gave me like five megabytes of

  space oh this is a yes that this is a

  huge deal this is a even the nerds are

  like this is the most unconscionable

  hardware thing they had was still

  selling 16 gig devices which is

  ridiculous you can't even update the iOS

  and the OS in most cases but yeah the

  the parsimonious amounts of data it's

  gotten better but it's still pretty

  costly for what you get and will not

  accommodate even basic stuff yeah all by

  way of saying on my laptop I've just

  said okay I don't need music on there I

  don't know how to get it from my desktop

  yeah and I just don't care but when I

  synced my phone I finally was like well

  I gotta sync my phone to my new computer

  can't keep sinking it to this computer

  from 2004

  well wiped all the music off my phone Oh

  Jim because it's you know what I mean

  because it's not on the new one it's not

  on the new one yeah and I'm like and I

  all I want is therefore to be able so

  there to be a box that says would you

  like the iTunes that's on your phone to

  be the master or the one that's on the

  computer to be the master right but it

  doesn't allow for that and so all the

  musics off my phone well then I had I

  had it on my iPad which I was using to

  control the Sonos until I just did this

  thing I made this mistake again I forgot

  to never upgrade I forgot to never never

  trust their box always say cancel if

  it's if you push cancel and it's like

  Yelp if it says would you like to use

  the app yes

  or cancel and you cancel then you then

  you go away you don't get to use it yep

  you have to use the app if you're

  looking at on your phone right and so

  unless you unless you delete the app oh

  I don't even know if I did I had do I

  have the app probably that's the same

  with you - if you get YouTube on your

  phone it'll always use that and it's a

  pretty crappy out so I never use Yelp

  because apparently I downloaded the app

  one time I never want to use the app if

  they ask me I just want to look at the

  thing because it's right there I can see

  it I just want to click on and look at

  it I don't want an extra step to go look

  at their app so I'm like and watch it

  boot up and presumably take me to iTunes

  so I'm always like no I don't care I

  don't want to use Yelp I do not want to

  use it not only do I not want to use it

  I want to say the word Yelp with a wit

  like spit coming out of the corners of

  my mouth every time I say it like oh is

  it on Yelp yeah anyway so I cooked up my

  iPad and then all my musics gone from

  there so the only place any of that

  stuff lives anymore is my desktop which

  I'm terrified of disturbing I'm a

  terrified of waking it up from its nap

  anymore because it contains multitudes

  and every other way every other way that

  Apple has to force me to either buy all

  that stuff again or go the rest of my

  life only listening to Michael Franti

  and spearhead Apple's trying to do it

  and they're trying to do it by way of

  these cryptic little pop-ups that it's

  like would you like to make a decision

  right now that's that

  fully difficult mmm it feels that way

  sometimes but you know there there is a

  dirt huh this is not a particular

  interesting topic no it's not but you

  know it is there I want to say I hear

  your frustration because there's all

  kinds of stuff that's super frustrating

  you know one of those things is it did

  feel like for a pretty long time Apple

  there are two things at least that Apple

  got pretty well which was that things

  always did seem to be kind of getting

  better things did get more reliable um

  and there was the things there were

  improvements and you accepted one

  accepted them gladly because they did

  improve the devices the software the

  surface whatever where but but the

  second part is that it also kind of felt

  like like you got used to Apple being a

  good shepherd being a good guy being a

  good Sherpa being a good good friend

  like you know you could just hit that

  Update button if you're about to get on

  a plane and know that like yeah you know

  spring a chance is not just gonna really

  screw up and this is the most horrible

  general kind of comment but I think in

  both cases the feeling as a typical

  garden-variety user is that neither of

  those things is the case anymore and

  then both trends are going the other way

  if you you know if you do if you do run

  some kind of an update especially on iOS

  it is like we said it's very unclear

  sometimes what's going to happen after

  you do this and that's that makes people

  resistant the last thing you want is to

  have people resistant to operating

  updating the operating system but you

  know hand-in-hand with that is that

  second part which is like now I'm scared

  you use my desktop because I don't want

  do anything that makes it eat all of my

  mp3's because it has a different account

  associated with it like what stuff is

  mine that I get to keep forever you know

  I don't think they're trying to make you

  buy it again I just think sometimes

  there are pretty tone-deaf about helping

  guide people into whatever the new thing

  is going to be and sometimes they're

  reluctant to just admit you know what

  that way we used to do it we're really

  abandoning that but we're not telling

  you that you keep running this like it's

  a thing that's going to be there but

  like unless you're in the you know the

  Mac arathi and like following every

  headline you're not going to know that

  that thing's already very close to

  end-of-life that basically wins the

  stuff stops getting upgrades the stuff

  stops you know what I mean that's not a

  salutary sign and you would notice that

  if it's

  working properly until just one day it

  doesn't and I don't think they're very

  responsible sometimes about

  communicating that with people

  well it's interesting we've talked about

  the tech world for for a long time for

  the decades and decades we've been doing

  this program absolutely is one of our

  one of our first topics this technology

  decades ago that's right that's right

  about biology this is you know if you go

  on to LinkedIn you'll see the technology

  is one of my whatever core competencies

  I think I endorsed you for that or

  whatever yeah thumbs upses but uh but

  you know the not very long ago you and I

  had a brief conversation where I was

  saying you know I used to love a tweet

  bot and Tweetbot tweet ba was this great

  program I used it a lot and then it just

  started to be less and less functional

  it was it couldn't do certain things it

  wouldn't I wouldn't let me see embedded

  content it just sort of started to fall

  apart and I kept using it wondering what

  was going on and it felt like there were

  a few times over the years where lonely

  sandwich would put up an app or some

  friend of yours would put up an app and

  I would get it and I would use it until

  it stopped being functional and I would

  ask you and they were like oh yeah they

  stopped using that or well you know

  there was that why you know they just

  stopped updating it it was it turned

  into it how it happens it happens

  sometimes stuff just goes away but like

  you wouldn't expect like if you had a

  favorite like kitchen knife you wouldn't

  expect it to just stop working one day

  if it became double you would notice

  that and then deal with that buy a new

  it but there's no you don't get a pop up

  on kitchen knives that like oh by the

  way this is no longer supported right

  and so I figured that was what was going

  on with Tweetbot well so I got to a

  point where it just it wasn't functional

  anymore and I and I was I was sad but I

  went over and started using them the

  Twitter app which was awful people have

  strong shows about Twitter clients it's

  a very it's very personal relationship

  yeah but I put this out there on the web

  and and I got a ton of people saying

  well why don't you use tweet bot and I

  was like well I did I thought it was tea

  away so I wrote you and said what the

  WTF and you said oh you need to

  companies and it seems like a simple

  answer but it's actually the closer we

  get to

  what's actually happening it requires

  like a whiteboard and a chalk talk to

  explain why why your tweet bot is not

  working yeah you're like oh you have to

  go in and pay for the update that's the

  way that people that make small apps

  that aren't like massive that's how they

  fund it you have to go buy stop that's

  how they get paid is how I would put it

  sorry yeah they're not it's not like

  they're you know putting out a tin cup

  like this is what these people do for a

  living that's how the only way they can

  make money is to sell and you sell you a

  new version or have in-app purchases

  yeah yes that is how you explained it to

  me at the time however that was not

  clear to me as a layperson because I'm

  not reading Macworld or whatever and so

  how was I to know that it there was

  never in tweet bought a thing that

  popped up and said by the upgrade

  because we don't we need to get paid

  because this is what we do for a living

  or there was never bail on your phone

  that said oh by the way the ecosystem

  you think you're used to has quietly

  changed in the last few years here's

  some bullet points from Apple explaining

  exactly how the 70% take versus 30% like

  oh here's what all that means like no

  it's it's all it's a black art to even

  understand why things happen like wire

  what how come all of a sudden almost

  everything is free but I have to pay for

  the good stuff well sit down have a

  sandwich this is gonna take about

  explain right and I was thrilled to buy

  this $4.99 drum machine app for my iPad

  because it was one of these moments

  these you know I I've been down to the

  music store a few times like which one

  of these Roland 808 is the right vintage

  drum machine for me and I'm talking to

  the tech dudes like if I get this will I

  in there and they're kind of all looking

  at me like I don't know how that works

  man I just do it all in the computer

  right I'm like you don't know how this

  classic drum machine works they're like

  nah we just have that here for the Nerds

  like you some like the Greybeards that

  want to come in and fondle something

  from their childhoods we don't know how

  it works it's not a thing that we would

  ever use look at me I'm to live crude

  yeah because drop whatever is 808 beats

  whatever this 808 does there's thing on

  my phone that does it ten times better


  like get with the times and so I was

  like ugh

  but I found this this cool drum machine

  simple to use and it's on the iPad and

  it cost six bucks or something and I was

  like that's six bucks that I'm happy to

  spend it happy better to spend than 1500

  bucks on a on you know MC blow fish's

  fucking 808 stays so I get it and it but

  but I have to like get my whole system

  in line and now I'm fucked now I now I

  paid $5.00 for the drum machine and it

  has to think about every beat and I

  don't know if you I don't know if you

  can speak to this but I certainly can

  you do not want to think about every

  beat you want this to not you know what

  that's good that one's going in that's

  going in the e-book says get that I

  don't want it right you don't want to

  have to think about every beat you don't

  know uh well I'm done thank you so much

  for tuning in to tech world

  I'm John Kirkland and this is another

  episode of why computers are amazing hmm

  it's it's fun to fun it's fun to sit in

  the Apple Store and listen to all the

  other conversations it's so I have a

  little initiative I guess everybody does

  this if there's a thing that you feel

  like you're super interested or know a

  lot about you kind of want to do these

  blind questions of people like I have a

  friend who works on the Star Wars movies

  and somebody was mentioning his checkout

  person was mentioning um wrote one and

  he was without revealing that he had

  worked on some of the shots was asking

  like what did you think about grand moff

  tarkin and what did you think about that

  any of the characters and I did a

  similar thing we're like if I see

  somebody wearing Apple earpods

  I'll always ask them how out of

  curiosity do you use double tap for Siri

  or do you use double tap for play pause

  you know if you want to go out and kind

  of ask around and and learn these kinds

  of things you you do that because you

  have some you had some vested interest


  that I just try I try to get a gauge I

  do a little bit of Thomas Friedman work

  right I like to just without being too

  much of a nerd you know like if you're

  in a ride ride hailing car like there's

  a good chance that person's got some

  personal technology they have to have

  that in there and that's an interesting

  times like notice like which phone

  they've got how they're using it how

  many do they have or like I go type it

  up I pick up lunch for the family and I

  notice that the burger place we go to

  has an array of seven different not just

  iPads but Samsung's they have an array

  of they've got this whole area it looks

  like you know Charles from the wrens you

  ever look at his pedal board it looks

  like that except it's all tablets to

  take orders you know I'm just I'm a

  different format yeah yeah from like

  this is caviar this is you know spoonful

  this is knife edge or whatever I don't

  know I just always think that's

  interesting to just kind of like get a

  gauge about how other people are

  thinking about and using technology and

  the Apple Store is super interesting for

  that just yeah yeah let me let me ask

  you this yes you there um this sounds

  like something that the old Merlin man

  would do back when he was Merlin man and

  was a technology pundit yeah I was a

  seasoned today oh just you know yeah now

  it seems like you're just a layperson

  just a farmer you're just a farmer Merle

  just as God made me uh and you're out

  you know you're just out hoeing you're

  your ro Helen my till why why exactly is

  this just an is just like a distracted

  interest or are you are you still still

  is it or you like the Brad Pitt

  character in the in the mortgage movie

  or you know kind of keeping your hand in

  the game even more the Christian Bale's

  oh the Christian the Christian Bale on

  the picture did you times I got some

  speed metal in a confusing high because

  I like sitting on the bus and listening

  to people talk I do - I just like

  observing people in the wild not not not

  in a snarky like I want to put your

  picture on the internet with your raven

  kind of way but like you know like oh


  no that's just that is super interesting

  watching even how the lady my genius at

  the app bar like how I thought they even

  say genius or Apple bar anymore but the

  woman who helped me get my computer

  repair like watching how she interacts

  like wow how she does stuff on the phone

  that's it's not out of a vocational need

  really although this stuff does come up

  on you know I don't know I don't know

  how you define what it is that I'm doing

  these days but like it does come up I

  end up talking are several shows we're

  like I have three different shows where

  stuff about Apple will come up even

  though it's not the primary topic but

  it's mostly just my own interests like

  talking to my friends watching what

  they're doing but you know it's I don't

  know I'm not sure the point I'm trying

  to make except that it there is such an

  interesting and confusing range of

  people's reckons about technology that

  you really get to overhear as they as

  the consumers playing it to the person

  at the Genius Bar and you know let's you

  know that's not every genius is a genius

  you get real differing wait a minute

  wait a minute not all geniuses bouncing

  whole hold the phone yeah this about

  Bernie where's John is this about Bernie

  break they don't exist


  I my computer's not working right now

  and it's the thing is that having done

  this with the iPad now my laptop and my

  whole system doesn't work right because

  I had to do all these things in order to

  upgrade I had to change passwords and

  then in by changing passwords I reset

  settings accidentally not on purpose it

  wasn't that I did it it was that the

  computer did it without asking right so

  now my message app won't let me send

  messages and I keep sending it and then

  Google just sent me an email saying an

  unsecured insecure app just tried to log

  on to your Google and that and I'm just

  in the laptop sending messages via the

  message app like I didn't have anything

  to do with Google on this but but it's

  going through some you know yeah it's

  going through the the passages of my

  mind or whatever hmm uh and so anyway so

  here I am I got I got three messages I

  need to send I need to send them

  kisum so that's crazy problem I'm

  putting anger right now I see I'm trying

  not to talk about this on the program

  because we should talk about this

  offline you're worried that somebody

  listening to the program is going to

  immediately use their superior hacking

  qualities to how am i sorry I'm worried

  that's already happened on somebody's oh

  I see so if you can't if you're if

  cranium you should never need to change

  your password to do an update that's oh

  no I don't think I had to do that it was

  that they it was that uh why I mean

  honestly I have no idea right they think

  the thing to do to figure this out is to

  take your known good Apple name and I'm

  trying to look you up here look whatever

  you're using for your come on contact

  card yeah you should go and see if you

  can log in you go to

  and see if you can log in with what you

  know to be the correct credentials yeah

  all right well Annie what you should do

  so thanks for your coming apart thank

  you thanks for coming to Mack comm show

  I'm your host you-you-you don't ask

  aunty your sequestered from from so much

  of my world probably by design you can't

  even imagine the feedback that I get

  from people about what I should be

  helping you with it's very frustrating

  to people that I'm not constantly going

  in and correcting anything that's even

  slightly wrong you're running from

  submit but also if you have the

  slightest technical problem the entire

  internet is very frustrated with me that

  I don't fly to se a B Viva Seattle

  Tacoma leave a SeaTac and personally go

  I'd help you with whatever your


  oh yeah feedback I get feedback about

  this yeah I'm I'm a pro straighter with

  the - what the hell aren't you doing

  that I know you know what this is part

  of Jeff oshins portfolio why don't you

  fly up here and fix this this message

  app right now oh you know what it is

  it's this it's the second device

  authentication did I agree to that I

  agreed to which means that now I can't

  do anything without

  also finding my phone and typing in they

  might have lock your car keys into a

  second set of car keys I did oh so look

  at you so just look at you squared away

  okay oh wait a minute what was that that

  just happened why did I oh no what

  happened John ah it said you need to put

  this code into your other machine and I

  said okay he dismissed an and then I'm

  and then I dismissed it no because I

  didn't know where I wanted me to put it

  chit chit and and I was like a Zapotec

  get back but you got in you found you

  can find your car keys inside the car

  keys you're gonna get a lot I'm gonna

  try right now hang on okay yeah but this

  is such good radiuses good fun um I got

  the numbers in verifying trust this

  browser it asks me do I trust the

  browser what is that what blew the

  browser Safari then he got hacked I got

  a virus I got heck with the virus be

  said you done dude it okay alright I


  oh wait a minute hey my cloud storage is

  almost full oh it's photos videos

  documents and data will no longer be

  updated but I can learn more let's see

  what it says good manage my iCloud

  storage oh I can increase my storage

  just 50 gigabytes who would ever need

  that many gigabytes for $0.99 US dollars

  a month you know I'm a flurbot terabyte

  go for the terabyte I'm not going to put

  another eel on my bottom

  it's you know it's like it's it's like

  um it's like the the Cosa Nostra right

  they stopped by your cheese shop and

  they go you got a real nice cheese shop

  here it'll be a shame if anything

  happened your camembert it's it's like

  that except in this case the putting the

  army'll on you with attention where it's

  like every morning it's gonna go you

  know what I mean well I mean in the time

  okay here's the great thing in the time

  that it took me to write and set to

  write the person I was trying to so so

  there's a mayoral race in Seattle this

  season and uh my good friend former

  mayor Mike McGinn mm-hmm has thrown his

  hat back in the race to run against his

  arch nemesis and current mayor uh ed

  Murray Cassie

  ed Murray had a dust-up ed Murray is in

  the newspapers a lot recently here and

  I'm not trying to be provocative but I

  feel like I've heard some things uh he

  has uh he is it in the midst of scandal

  okay he says when she says is uh like

  dirty tricks right well I mean I I don't

  have any problem just outlying the facts

  of the case

  yeah which are that uh you know ed

  Murray is gay he was a volunteer and

  like a like a an activist a community

  activist in Portland in the 80s okay

  and he was in his 30s in the late 1980s

  and he worked with you know at-risk

  youth for many years accusations have

  dog Tim's that he in the process of

  mentoring uh street kids groomed and you

  know helped a couple of them uh in the

  sense that he let the

  live at his house okay and uh and then

  the accusation then there were

  accusations at the time that he had that

  he was sexually abusing them and this is

  was like a a whisper in the press or was

  this kind of a public say no he wasn't

  he wasn't I don't think prominent enough

  then that it would have been a whisper

  in the press know a kid actually went to

  the cops okay in the eighties thanks and

  in the 80s it was a scene where you know

  here was this upstanding sort of guy in

  his 30s who is working with at-risk

  youth versus a 15 year old drug addict

  street kid and so the cops just you know

  brushed it under the table right they

  just like the they didn't pursue it so

  now at right at the start of this

  election season the handful of guys who

  were teenagers in the 80s have come

  forward and said this happened to me and

  they they all have a lot of supportive

  for supporting evidence you know they

  all remember a certain sort of aspect of

  his penis it had a bump on it and a


  one of the guys remembers Ed's phone

  number by heart you know from late 80s

  and it was a you know it is precisely a

  my own private Idaho scenario in some

  ways right these guys were these teens

  were Street kids and drug kids and they

  were hustlers and they freely admit that

  they were hustlers but this was a

  different scene with IDI right he was

  like I mean one of the kids adopted Ed's

  last name as his you know he was

  borderline adopting them this is very


  yeah and doing all that stuff you know

  giving them money taking them to the

  doctor promoting them saying you know go

  to college he was acting as a father

  figure in a lot of ways

  and they you know and and all these kids

  say you know that in a way they loved

  him and some ways really loved him but

  he also was you know they kind of

  weren't they didn't want to have his

  penis in them hmm and that was sort of

  what he would that was his game I guess

  this is the accusation I have no I have

  no knowledge one where they up obviously

  and complicating matters further the

  people that are from that are pushing

  this lawsuit are it's a law firm and a

  kind of a group that is a very

  conservative Christian group that is

  pushing a very strong agenda and they

  come at at a few different ways they're

  they're the type of group that does this

  sort of thing to other politicians one

  of the guys in the in the article the

  newspaper article about these accusers

  one of the guys had taken a masking tape

  and written on the front of his blue

  t-shirt written Jesus Saves in masking

  tape across the shirt for the photoshoot

  because he forgot to wear his Jesus

  Saves shirt so that is you know the

  leftists right are very suspicious of

  that whole thing and so we're off to the

  races right the mayor's office denies

  everything they went to the dot they

  went to had some doctor examine him and

  say there's no bump on his penis even

  though it's sort of one of those things

  where it's like really there's like four

  guys that all say the same thing um and

  so it's like it's very it's very

  complicated and all Oh non-complicated

  also because if you're running against

  him that's not the way you'd want to win

  you were right well it isn't except that

  you know like this will bring a lot of

  crazies into the

  but the thing about McGinn is that he is

  against Edie Marie profoundly and McGinn

  doesn't care begin will never mention

  this this this isn't on his radar at all

  he he just he's against Ed's personality

  he's against his policies he's a he is

  he's a he's been sitting on the

  sidelines for the last four years

  just like chomping at it he really

  helped my City Council campaign and it

  was in that time that I realized that

  he's a player he wants in you know and

  so this was just a you know the lot a

  lot of the reason that McGinn wouldn't

  have run against it and I'm sure he was

  conceived been thinking about it the

  entire time is Ed's a very good

  politician too and had shored up support

  from a lot of different quadrants and a

  lot of that support in politics I

  learned in running is I mean everybody's

  very half-hearted they're like well we

  don't like this about we don't like this

  or that about this person but he's our

  best shot so we're throwing everything

  behind him right because there's no

  there's no half endorsement in politics

  nobody goes like well we sort of like

  both people but you know I mean the only

  people that do that are the stranger

  right who who endorsed my opponent by

  saying this guy's kind of a creepy

  serial killer but he knows policy John

  Roderick is a really fun rakish exciting

  guy that we like a lot but he just

  hasn't been in the game long enough and

  that's an endorsement that helps nobody

  or satisfies nobody right that's just

  like thank-thanks but most like the

  union's everybody else restaurant it

  would be like a restaurant review where

  they can't personally find anything to

  like on the menu but they can give you

  reasons not to order two different

  things it's like well okay so should I

  avoid the restaurant altogether like

  right it's a I kid that's not really

  super actionable unless I just side not

  to vote yeah or just you just got you're

  like I mean there

  I guess they're open about lesser of two

  evils but 99% of the people don't don't

  read even that deep into it they just

  they pulled the cheat sheet out and

  check the box that they tell him to

  check you sure but in this case the the

  question of whether or not Mike McGinn

  would run against Edie Marie was always

  a question of how vulnerable is Edie and

  Edie is a very good politician and so he

  had shored up support from all of the

  groups all of the the all of the people

  you need so he seemed in he seemed less

  vulnerable not invulnerable ever right

  but he seemed like if all the powers

  that be were going to get behind him

  he's a much more difficult person to run

  against this this unfortunate

  controversy and I and I don't mean it

  just that it's unfortunate for Ed it's

  unfortunate for all involved it's and

  and presuming I think that you kind of

  can presume that there's truth to these

  accusations cuz it just doesn't seem

  unlikely you know it seems like there's

  just points you get to and I don't know

  anything about this I'm not trying to

  speculate but you know there are those

  kinds of things that you run into where

  you're like this there's so many

  different pieces coming to even small

  pieces coming from so many different

  places you know it isn't like a you know

  well one-one idiot says Iraq has WMDs

  you know it isn't even anything like

  that it's more like there's so much

  little bits of chatter and smoke from so

  many different places it almost seems in

  the in retrospect with cases like that

  it seems like there's probably something

  going on well and also and this is the

  this is the problem that makes it hard

  to shake for sure if if you talk to if

  you talk to anyone who was a gay

  teenager in the 1980s there was a

  culture then and there wasn't there was

  a culture that was that that just had a

  very different idea of what the age of

  the appropriate age of consent was and

  in a lot of these western states like

  that the age of consent in Oregon has

  been 18 for a long time but across

  America the there are a there states

  where the age of consent was 12 until

  not that long ago no in Ohio for

  heterosexual business uh-uh yeah because

  because homosexual business was against

  the law no matter how old you were

  there was no age of consent for it right

  it could not be it was illegal by my

  definition but the age of consent for

  heterosexual sex in a mean it's still

  very state to state and there are states

  where it's 14 years old still there are

  a lot of yeah there are a lot of states

  where it's 16 like the number of states

  that it was 18 were definitely in the

  minority for a long time I think that's

  not true now but so so this idea that we

  have that 18 years old is the age of

  consent or even 16 is the age of consent

  isn't necessarily that that's a that's a

  that is an idea that has been evolving

  over time and in the 80s in in Oregon on

  the streets of Portland and I was on the

  streets of Portland in the 80s and it

  was a dark and lawless place but it's

  not just digitally can find a finally

  wasn't there no but I did meet keanue we

  went for a motorcycle ride but like all

  of them all the American streets right

  like the the gay communities were not

  able to be out and proud they had they

  had their own sort of system their own

  law and a lot of you know if you talk to

  Dan Savage about his own experiences or

  anybody my age who was gay in the 80s

  their experiences are incredibly varied

  and a lot of them had mentors who were

  older men that sort of brought them into

  the life showed them the way and were

  and that's a thing that that in a

  heterosexual context it never it's

  always a little bit uh creepy the idea

  of a mentor right or like an older man

  that's going to show it your money

  out anytime I just loves hearing about

  these problems that you see or know I

  think University University of

  California is changing as of this week I

  think changing the structure for how

  things like especially things with

  faculty get reported and tracked down

  you know I mean that's I think that's

  something where the anytime there's a

  power differential there's going to be

  questions right I mean anytime that

  there is one person has venus otro for

  sexual harassment that anytime there's a

  power differential like the way that

  every aspect of how that gets treated is

  different it's one thing for it to be

  your 18 year old neighbor and another

  thing for it to be like a 40 year old

  powerful man you know who has who has a

  reputation and who has the ability to

  affect any way it's just it's it's not

  difficult not to look weird even that is

  a recent you know or an evolving idea

  right we we see that power now as a

  thing that that it that power

  differential as a thing that is that we

  we pour a lot of energy into seeing it

  as uh as exploitative um but that wasn't

  the case in the seventies right or or in

  the 90s even it is oh really

  interactively interfer in terms of a

  mutual consent mostly relationship yeah

  just in that in that but it wasn't

  usually like I I had several instructors

  in college who dated students like who

  were in the class with me that used to

  be like a pretty normal thing my

  guidance counselor at the University of

  Washington when I was 22 and she was 38

  huh I remember this seduced me and um

  and had control over my transcripts and

  what because I was transferring to the

  University she was the person

  determining what the my credits were

  going to be like I was coming from a

  school that had a semester system I was

  joining a school that had a

  system and it was sort of up to her

  discretion whether or not a semester

  credit was written down as a credit for

  a quarter or credit for two quarters

  almost every college garlis of how good

  the colleges is if you transfer in they

  will find a way to shave credit no

  matter where you went and she found a

  way to not shave those credits Wow

  um she found a way because she had the

  she had the the number two pencil that

  some of my higher level classes that

  were owned that were a semester long got

  turned into two quarters worth of credit

  because we were sleeping together

  and that wasn't mm-hmm that that wasn't

  lost on me but and not not that I was

  doing it not that I was doing it like

  right now with malice aforethought it

  wasn't like you said oh I'm gonna go

  have this relationship in order to get

  more credits no I had no idea that such

  a relationship was possible until I was

  in it but it became very weird later

  when I kind of like you broke up with

  her for lack of a better term and she

  called my house my mom's house saying hi

  this is John's guidance counselor I'm

  really worried about him do you have any

  information about you know like it was

  there was an incredible power

  differential and she was in the end I

  think a very nice person who was in her

  own life kind of going through a period

  going through a a midlife crisis maybe

  even and um and I always have seemed

  older than I was or more mature than I

  was but I it wasn't just that I was 22

  like I was pretty inexperienced not I

  was not a 22 year old who had had

  ten long-term relationships with girls

  my own age you know I was still pretty

  new I didn't lose my virginity until I

  was 20 and I had you know and then

  though that next couple of years from 20

  to 22 were not particularly fruitful

  years in terms of getting to know ladies

  and what and how to how to behave how I

  behave myself and in do and she did

  teach me right she taught me uh things

  that I didn't know about things that I

  didn't that hadn't occurred to me to

  know you know yeah like it wasn't just a

  she wasn't exploiting me or I mean I

  didn't I didn't feel like I guess I felt

  like that at the time but I didn't feel

  like um I you know it's not like I was I

  wasn't afraid of anything I'm not I'm

  not exactly I haven't really thought

  about it in a long time and tried to

  process it in a modern context because

  at the time it just felt like and you

  know and if you say to your friends like

  oh yeah they're like whoa right because

  it's a because it's a the nature of a

  younger man older woman relationship is

  that people don't have sympathy for that

  right they're talking about that this

  week on DoubleX

  gab fest they were talking about the

  whole thing of like just that that weird

  imbalance between we're like if you see

  an older predatory man with a younger

  woman I mean you know a child or you

  know teenager you everybody looks at

  that and goes you but like there is

  still this narrative of when it's an

  older potentially predatory woman who's

  using their power willfully in this case

  maybe like everybody goes yeah right

  like it's so like you know yeah but in

  that case you like you were an adult you

  weren't a minor at the time but there's

  still in our Delta I mean and I but I

  was a minor in my mind you know that I

  was still a child but there was when we

  when she and I would go shopping

  this was always very interesting because

  of what I would talk to my friends and

  even my even my uh my girlfriend's like

  my younger woman friends yeah it was

  always it was always uh regarded as that

  I that this was evidence that I was a

  that I was a big wheelwright that I was

  sleeping with this older woman that was

  in a position of power and she was a

  lawyer - I mean she she had she she had

  left her career in order to work at the

  University for some reason I don't know

  maybe hmm maybe it was maybe because

  look back huh has she ever been in the

  clergy yeah exactly

  but when we would go to the grocery

  store together other middle-aged women

  would glare at her and so much so that I

  noticed it and I mentioned it to her one

  time because we were waiting in line you

  know we were checking out we had bought

  some ingredients for she was gonna make

  me something she called green pizza and

  we were sitting there in the and the

  woman checking us out at the grocery

  store was given you know was just kind

  of giving her a lot of vibe and and

  there were a couple of encounters where

  we were walking down the aisle and

  putting stuff in the shopping cart and

  it was clear that we were there as a

  romantic couple and not as she wasn't my

  mom right and uh and you know and and

  she just got the stink-eye and I

  mentioned to her and she was like oh

  yeah well she sort of blew it off as

  though it was you know uh she wasn't

  surprised and it it did surprise me and

  still kind of surprises me because I'm

  not sure what I'm not sure what that

  means within the within a culture of

  middle-aged women like what why you

  would be mad at someone who had a young

  boyfriend what exactly what exact crime


  come on without getting any too specific

  because who knows but I mean the basic

  one is oh I know what you're up to right


  everybody might have different reasons

  why it bothers them that she's up to

  that but I mean it's a common thing is

  like oh you're not fooling anybody

  yeah and and it feels a little bit like

  the like Monty Python Housewives like

  hey pearl pearl clutching mm-hmm but um

  all of that is sort of uh beside the

  point or or at least tangential to the

  point which is that you all you had to

  do it seemed so simple was to send uh

  send the text to the mayoral candidate

  hmm to Houston

  oh right solvent popping the stack John

  so here I Mike McGinn who has declared

  that he's running for the for the mayor

  allottee the only reason he's chosen to

  do it is that that he saw he saw

  political advantage right there ISM

  there was a moment where Ed's newfound

  vulnerability was going to cause enough

  of the people that enough of the unions

  that had thrown their support behind him

  to waver and to be unsure that there

  would be a there was an opportunity for

  Mike to get in he has you know Mike

  wouldn't care if it was just that Ed had

  stubbed his toe might be getting an

  opening yeah and he Mike's going to do a

  better job and he's going to be better

  for the city is why he's running right

  that's what that's his his justification

  so anyway he and I were supposed to meet

  for lunch today but the problem was and

  this is the problem I never put things

  into my calendar right I have made three

  separate lunch dates for today at noon

  Oh John and I didn't realize it I didn't

  realize I had done it I was like

  everybody that talked to me last week it

  was like we should get lunch next week I

  was like what about Monday and each

  person was like let me get back to you

  and when they got back to me we're like

  yes let's do Monday 12:30 let's do

  Monday at 12:30 I was like great and

  last night

  I was like sittin and stewing and I was

  like wait a minute do I have something

  to do tomorrow

  uh-huh I looked at my calendar there

  wasn't anything there and um and then I

  was like I think I'm having lunch with

  the mayor and I thought wait a minute

  aren't I also having lunch with Brian

  and Scott

  what does anybody else that I'm having

  lunch with and then I did I said can I

  wear is there anybody did I just feel

  like then I was like oh shit I'm having

  lunch with Kate and I felt like such a

  dunce over okay

  dunce over okay

  quite a feeling I hate that feeling it's

  like like this and unforced error like

  Oh jiminy what am I doing here yeah yeah

  like what did I turn three different

  people and all these are important

  lunches right I want to have lunch with

  Kate I want to have lunch with Mike I

  want to have lunch with Brian and Scott

  don't leave it all in garden consolidate

  them it's just what I thought for a

  minute but every one of those

  conversations all three of them are

  supposed to be competent I don't know

  it's just this is how bearing out is

  these so telling you you guys should be

  working together all one big team so all

  morning I've been sending you know

  trying to send this message like hey I

  got to reschedule hey I got a reschedule

  uh I just got a text on my phone from

  Brian and Scott saying get this this is

  these two these two fucking guys it's

  11:10 a.m. they're like we're here at

  the restaurant get here when you can

  play mini seriously you guys gonna sit

  there for an hour so I'm gonna show up

  at or an hour and a half I'm gonna show

  up at 12:30 and you're gonna you know

  and the checks gonna be on the table and

  have a thumb of coffee left in the cup

  so so what what I just did was i it as

  Brian and Scott sent me that saying that

  they're already there

  that indicates to me that I am NOT

  taking that lunch date seriously anymore

  oh really

  okay because I'm gonna go there right

  but I'm gonna swing by because you're

  gonna swing by my swing ugly ready like

  we had state for 12:30 not for 11

  they're there already they're gonna have

  their own little how can these men but

  that's that's a little bit of a

  passive-aggressive move I'll say it puts

  you back on your heels no unnecessarily

  so I'm gonna swing by and let's just

  sales but I sent a thing to Kate saying

  I was sorry could we reschedule and then

  I asked the mayor if we could push it

  back till 2:00 and the mayor just wrote

  back and said yep so Wow I'm I'm on it

  too with the mayor I cancel with Kate

  I'm going to see you get your swing by

  first and then you're gonna go back the


  I'm gonna go meet the mayor and then

  early dinner with Adam Savage because

  I'm interviewing him tonight at the

  University of Washington Oh No kidding

  and we're gonna talk about what we're

  going to talk about wait wait hang on

  you talk about Mythbusters guy yeah I

  like that just he get he got he got

  brought to town by the University Office

  he didn't want him he's a very nice man

  very nice man they asked if I would be

  the moderator and I said of course

  so that's my day-to-day is swing by like

  sorry had to have to skip Kate huh

  bounce over to the Merrit too and then

  early dinner with Adam at 5:00 boy

  you're a hell of a day going on this is

  a good day it's exciting right

  just another day in the life hmm I woke

  up and I fell out of bed mm-hmm I didn't

  even dragged a comb across oh you didn't

  even find your way upstairs and have a

  cup I have my cups or downstairs but

  then when you looked up

  do you notice you really noticed I was

  like what am i late to the show I was

  those few minutes late we both made


  no no I'm USA USA ding ding I asked it's

  Adams really good summit it's a fun time

  I got it very rated as a masterpiece but

  it's a very good song the thing is that

  nobody had ever done it before so thank

  you so you get a bye you get a pass when

  nobody's ever done so it's for you get

  useful pass the George Martin Georgia

  Martin gets full points for that but

  like you know it's good it's good you

  know it's no and your Burke I sing yeah

  sorry I don't mean to take off your

  lunch talk my brother Bart once said to

  me as I was complaining about revolution

  number 9 uh my brother

  defended revolution number nine and did

  it as you know as a groundbreaking

  watershed experimentation a thing that

  was you know that changed the world

  there was never you couldn't go back

  couldn't put revolution number nine back

  in the bottle and I was unsophisticated

  at the time I was just a I was just a

  teenager and I was saying it's a huge

  chunk of an album that's already too

  long and everyone in the world has only

  listened to it once or twice like it's

  not a song that you play the The White

  Album our revolution number nine number

  nine oh yeah we don't know yeah I I

  happen to adore that record but no

  you're right that's that's that's us

  that's a skipper yet you don't put that

  side of the album on yeah it's like that

  butcher song on an odyssey an Oracle

  like every great album has a song every

  bass ket's cuz it's - drekia

  dum not every about a lot but my brother

  wouldn't hear it he would not hear nope

  because it was the first and I feel like

  because it was the first like music

  concrete brought in to rock yeah I mean

  it was it was innovative in in there

  were so many techniques that had that

  even in the even in an avant-garde

  context hadn't been tried yet okay

  multitrack right multi-tracking him I

  guess I I don't care for it I think it's

  I don't think it's aged well no no it

  has and and I and I think the orchestral

  swells of a day-in-the-life

  are uh you know we're all used to them

  they are they are but they're and I

  think that that was a fine solution to

  that problem but you can tell by the way

  that they built it right they they had

  the one part they had the other part

  they didn't know what to do they counted

  off that that area right on either side

  yeah and said leave Spacey more thing

  yeah we'll put something here uh-huh and

  the solution was what they with how they

  solve it right that's that's what

  happened but I don't think that in a

  world of infinite possibility

  the I don't think that that was the best

  thing that could have gone in that

  pocket hmm let's just put it that way

  but nobody asked me nobody wants nobody

  wants to ghost of Christmas past me back

  to Abbey Road no to get my you know my

  thoughts on it like hey you guys touch

  it before we do this this was remember

  white white up we talk about the White

  Album we talk about Daniel life

  oh okay Dan the Life Sergeant Pepper

  right you know what's weird when I was

  going to sleep last night you're not

  gonna believe the song I had in my head

  uh she's leaving home for some reason

  was in my head it's a great song it's a

  really good song he's make me so sad

  when I was like 12 or 13 oh this must be

  what it's like when your child leaves

  home must suck yeah yeah me too

  thinking about how his wife's got a

  dressing-gown I started to think as I

  was falling asleep I was thinking how it

  sounds like English people have lots of

  different clothes for different modes

  that Americans just don't have well they

  have sleeping hats that's true yep

  yeah dress gowns night shirts do about

  unions did you ever wear a nightshirt

  yeah and not something I felt very

  comfortable about but I'm usually like a

  pajamas or underwear man I got the whole

  sickening sweatpants yeah for a while in

  the 1980s during the I think what I'm

  going to call the initial prep revival

  um when Lands End first really was

  making a stab for the boat shoe market

  oh sure there was a there was a point

  where I got an LLB n-- plaid flannel

  nightshirt hmm um and you know what I

  mean by nightshirt right it's knee

  length flannel oh go to the cleaner pan

  you get like a long long search like

  almost like a tooth right mm-hmm and I

  was like I'm gonna I'm doing this I'm

  I'm I'm rockin the nightshirt now it was

  right when I had transitioned from

  tighty whitey underwear or y-fronts

  to boxer shorts and I felt like these

  were the items of

  sophisticated manhood men did not wear

  white underwear they wore plaid boxers

  because that's because I don't know

  where I got that idea and nightshirts is

  how we slept and I rocked this

  nightshirt for a while but I'm a I'm an

  active sleeper and I would get tangled

  up in this thing I would get tangled up

  in it like like when you put four towels

  in a dryer uh like I was just it was

  like up over my head and I'm an athletic


  I've jump around I bounce around when

  I'm sleeping and then one day I came

  home from school and my nightshirt had

  been cut in half huh because my sister

  decided that it was a cool punk rock

  layering so yeah development she had a

  belt and you got a got a steel going

  there well except that she cut the

  bottom nine inches off because it did

  more like a Madonna like a midriff type

  situation she had well no it wasn't that

  high but she had cut she just decided

  that she had the power to take scissors

  to my stuff that's pretty crazy

  it was brassy and if I hadn't if she


  I probably would have the nightshirt

  would have gone down the river I would

  have never thought about it again if

  she'd said can I have that even but the

  fact that she cut that thing means that

  I will never forget that night sure

  right I'm still upset about still you're

  still stewing I'm still stewing I had a

  very interesting dream scape last night

  are you okay four-time yeah I don't know

  those guys I'm just gonna swing by

  opinions I had a very interesting so

  normally my when I lay in bed and I'm

  trying to go to sleep or if I wake up

  and I want to go back to sleep I kind of

  have this dream landscape that I

  conjured that's that's full of adventure

  right it's high adventure

  what what what drifts me off to sleep is

  that I'm you know I'm like part of a

  secret mission that's doing a halo jump

  into some kind of you know like jungle

  where we're going to take on some

  drug criminals or you know I'm like I

  have a I sketch out a little adventure

  scenario and then I put myself sort of

  up there and this in the like with my

  parachute on and my oxygen mask on and

  my teammates and we're like let's go and

  we jump and then it's sort of like

  jumping off into sleep Wow Wow uh like I

  do a lot of that kind of and I'm not

  sure how long those adventure scenarios

  carry over into my dreams but that's

  kind of like how I head off to sleep and

  you would think they're very adventurous

  scenarios that it would get my heart

  beating and I wouldn't fall asleep but

  it exactly is like the opposite of what

  you want I think about trying to get my

  heartbeat to lower no no I'm always just

  like alright here we go

  like this then we're or like heist

  scenarios right we're where I'm where

  I'm thinking like and the high scenarios

  always maybe what puts me to sleep is

  not so much the stealing of the thing

  but the fencing of the thing when I sit

  and think about because I run high

  scenarios periodically I spend more time

  thinking about fencing the goods or

  laundering the money like bye-bye

  like we've dollar heist involved like

  gold bullion you got some bars like how

  you monetize that how do you monetize it

  right if you if you're one of those

  those guys that steals a pallet full of

  money in the back of a of a armored car

  yeah and and you make it let's say you

  make it to Mexico or wherever you're

  going how do you launder that money that

  is what I really like to think about the

  heist itself I figure is fait accompli

  sure right we're gonna go and we're

  gonna take the diamonds we're gonna get

  the money the gold whatever well so

  gonna take the pen 1 2 3 we're like

  obviously success is not a guarantee but

  the really interesting part in some ways

  not really interesting but the second

  interesting part is what happens after

  they're done and how they get caught

  because how they get caught part of the

  heist is always a fun part too and

  that's how that's the that's the part of

  the heist an area that I never want to I

  don't want to have under thought it

  right I've got I'm gonna have a plan too

  much so much of the upfront like you get

  the English guy with the bomb in the



  the backend like how do we get to

  Guatemala or what have you that's right

  like you find the guy with the big

  glasses who walks you through a back

  door and there's a passport waiting for

  you anyway last night

  I'm thinking um you know I'm laying in

  bed and I'm like kind of flipping

  through my rolodex of heist stories and

  hallo jumps and just spontaneously I

  don't know where this came from at all I

  it was not intentional I'm lying there

  and all of a sudden I'm driving a bus in

  Ireland huh

  I'm on the wrong you know I'm on the

  left side of the street and I'm in

  Western Ireland so rural coastal Ireland

  and I'm just driving a municipal bus Wow

  and I'm making all my stops and people

  are getting on people are riding my bus

  and they're getting off and I lay in bed

  and drove this bus around Western

  Ireland for I it feels like all night oh

  my god you just clean your route let

  people get on people just just doing my

  route and and there were people that got

  on and recognized that I was a new bus

  driver mmm-hmm

  and there were some small villages where

  the road was very curvy going down a

  hill and I had to maneuver the bus

  through these narrow streets going down

  a very curvy switchback and I did that

  quite well I didn't have any snafus and

  so when I woke up this morning I had a

  you know I woke up kind of early and I

  and I had a little opportunity to go

  back to sleep for a while I call that a

  measly bonus sleep when you get a little

  bonus sleep yeah a little bit of you

  know point after the touchdown type

  situation that's how it was mm-hmm and I

  immediately started driving my bus in

  Ireland against a club back and where I

  go yeah and I just couldn't be happier

  driving this bus

  and it's just like you would think

  you're driving along it's a little bit

  overcast the oceans over there

  little little sort of stone villages

  facing the water and you pull up to the

  stop and there's a lady with her hair

  and a hankerchief carrying two plastic

  grocery bags sure and you stop and she

  gets on let her on the bus and she pays

  her fare she goes back and then I close

  the door and I and I Drive was it I mean

  it's difficult to say by me wasn't a

  pleasant feeling did you enjoy driving

  the bus it was wonderful it sounds nice

  it was really what really - no you're

  rude like it's gonna be nice you get to

  know the people a little bit starts just

  feeling feeling like you're in a groove

  that's what I'm hoping and I and I think

  that you know that it's gonna be unusual

  for them that American is driving their

  bus I think that's going to be a novelty

  once we start chatting once the word

  gets out that the new bus drivers

  American uh-huh no sure I but I'm gonna

  be fine with that I'm you know I enjoy

  that kind of attention sounds kind like

  a say or like a Bill Forsyth movie like

  a fish out of water in the UK type movie

  George on the bus driver John's the sort

  of the bus driver and I feel like I'm

  gonna get to know everybody and I'm

  gonna learn their ups and downs and you

  know they're gonna be that few people

  trust their bus driver bus drivers uh

  A's irregularities like the mailman he's

  somebody you see all the time

  he's a trusted public servant yeah right

  you put your kid on the bus you take the

  kid to school right you you feel you

  feel confident that you're that the bus

  is a safe place so uh so that's my new

  thing and I and I hope I don't this may

  be as maybe the beginning of a new

  chapter for me which part the bus

  well first dreaming about the bus that

  feels important dreaming about driving

  the bus feels very important that

  driving bus dream I mean and uh and I

  think if it if it keeps going I feel

  like you know this is the thing about

  halo jumps and high scenarios they're

  not really I'm probably never going to

  do a halo jump and I'm probably not ever

  going to

  steal a bunch of gold bars but I could I

  could drive a bus in Ireland hmm

  according to dreams which I'm

  assuming knows everything about dreams

  um you got the dream of being on a bus

  may suggest you are going along with the

  crowd not taking responsibility dreaming

  of driving the bus may suggest you are

  the leader of your group and the dream

  is providing an opportunity to examine

  your leadership skills and where you're

  taking them paying the fare may be a

  metaphor for the price you are paying

  but you're not paying for you're driving

  the bus I'm driving it and what about

  Ireland king of Ireland well I don't

  know I have Clare what is dreaming of

  Ireland signify I'm sure somebody must

  have talked about it dreaming of our

  lady there's a lot of songs called

  dreaming of Ireland yeah I know I think

  it has to be meaningful I've decided

  it's meaningful yeah I think it is I

  think it is if I mean I'm I'm always

  looking for that that thing where I find

  my duck and maybe that maybe that's it

  we might think about it it's not a halo

  jump but here's the thing is it's like

  it's in a nice somewhat past door ah

  don't be condescending but it's probably

  in a somewhat like pastoral calm setting

  it represents a what do you call it like

  it's it's a job and not only is it a job

  where you have to be there on time

  you got to be places at the job on time

  it sounds like the ultimate grind but in

  fact it's not it sounds like the soul

  wanting some kind of regularity that's

  comfortable not just a grind mm-hmm that

  man talk about a dream buddy whoa that's

  a dream if the sign says the bus got has

  to be there at 10:15 that's not a thing

  that's not a thing that's up open to

  negotiation that's like your only thing

  she got to shop impact she needs to get

  on your bus she does right and the thing

  is I think your thing about about what I

  imagine about Western Ireland is that

  nobody there is striving Yeah right

  nobody's getting on that bus because

  they're going to the local community

  college to get a degree in computer

  science because they want to move to one

  Cupertino Square

  if they are you know they're doing their

  they have some bucolic errands uh

  they've got to move seeds oh you know

  whatever God is they got turf for

  mulches probably uh-huh uh-huh Pete Pete

  old Pete Pete some somebody's got it up

  should be a bus driver name your bus

  driver illegal Pete yeah

  scratchy old cheese the morning mrs.