Hello Internet

H.I #81: Adpocalypse

 

  all right I'm gonna minimize the brady

  for maximum bandwidth yeah breathing is

  gonna make the don't minimize me joke no

  I checked for ages now you haven't you

  have an almost method I never don't

  think remember a while back I told you

  about my little experiment where I

  changed my gray icon on all my system

  from being your flask and gear symbol

  Harter like a smiling gray face because

  I thought it would make me feel more

  fondly towards you when you send your

  robotic text messages and emails to me

  that you still fear yes yes you found my

  messages too brief and too cold and you

  thought a happier picture might improve

  the situation as I remember yeah how's

  that going I think it's worked you know

  oh yeah I think has worked so after

  running the experiment for a while my

  advice is if there's someone who pisses

  you off a little bit with their

  messaging change the picture to like the

  friendliest possible picture and it

  changes the way you view the person hmm

  like a text messaging psychological

  start over that's what's happening yeah

  you just look happier more of the time

  to me and I don't imagine you being all

  sort of grumpy and robotic with your

  brief replies I'm picturing you smiling

  as you think about me Freddie

  every time I send you a text message I

  send it with a smile yeah you're a real

  smile a minute you are I'm amazed I even

  have a picture of you smiling that

  wasn't great get so gray you know I

  spend a lot of time thinking about the

  Marty Blackstone yeah I dunno you spend

  a lot of time thinking about that might

  be bland stuff there is now a Wikipedia

  article just dedicated to the tallest

  buildings in Adelaide and whoever made

  that by the way you are my personal hero

  I was a little bit humbled though when I

  saw that the tallest building in

  Adelaide is actually the 115th tallest

  building in Australia I was gonna like

  Wikipedia they have the lists of

  everything but I was wondering a list of

  the tallest buildings in Adelaide how

  tall can these buildings actually be and

  that sounds like that's the answer

  this article though makes for

  fascinating reading on numerous levels

  it does partly because there's a whole

  bunch of buildings that have been

  proved or under construction and it's

  going to turn the world upside down I

  mean a whole bunch of the approved ones

  will be taller than the black stamp one

  will even beat older than the current

  tallest so it's all happening in

  Adelaide yeah I imagine so I'm looking

  at this list and the mighty black stump

  also known as the grenfell Center on

  this list which I think probably should

  be amended if someone's really diligent

  out there

  yeah it's number three on this list this

  is what I want to talk about uh-huh

  this needs to be settled because you may

  remember when I spoke to the sort of the

  building manager of the mighty black

  stamp when I visited and he told me that

  it was the second tallest building and

  he was upset that there were articles

  going around that were claiming it was

  third and this third place position for

  the black stamp is becoming more and

  more entrenched on the internet and fair

  enough if that's the fact of the matter

  I'll accept it but I've got a suspicion

  that it's not over do you

  you think this the hell straw house

  which is claiming to be one meter taller

  you think there's some shenanigans going

  on there yeah and I don't know whether

  or not this 103 meters versus 104 meters

  mm-hmm I think maybe that refers to like

  the top of the building and not maybe

  masts and things on top which probably

  should be included I don't know but I

  want to get to the bottom of it but I

  have no resources available to me other

  than the Internet and the Internet has

  this kind of self-perpetuating aspect to

  it where everyone just copies everything

  else off the previous articles and I get

  the feeling that everywhere I look I'm

  just reading the same stuff from the

  same source yeah so I need someone with

  like contacts and influence and maybe

  access to sort of blueprints and

  surveying equipment or something I want

  to settle once and for all what is

  taller between Telstra house at 30 Perry

  Street and the Grenville Center at 25

  grand fall straight to be second place

  as Adelaide's told us building behind

  Westpac house which is a runaway winner

  obviously runaway winner of course

  obviously I've loaded up Adelaide here

  on the 3d Apple maps on the computer

  yeah this is trying to see which one

  looks taller as though I can see a

  metres difference in this 3d

  representation close to each other these

  two

  it looks like they are across the street

  from each other not quite actually no

  are they even on the same block or am I

  looking at a different building I think

  maybe Telstra houses maybe not quite the

  same block I'm not sure that's it here's

  the thing Brady I know this is once

  again evidence of how the mighty black

  stump is mighty in your mind but is not

  necessarily super obvious on the actual

  skyline of Adelaide I think it is

  because it's like so black it's like

  it's been painted with that vente black

  that is like the blackest substance

  known to man when you look at the

  Adelaide skyline it's not noticeable

  because of its height it's noticeable

  because of its blackness no no of course

  I understand no they are right next to

  each other it looks like there's a tiny

  little church in between these two rival

  buildings for second place in the city

  they're right next to each other yeah

  actually yeah they are very close to

  each other now that I look at the map

  yeah but this needs to be sorted gray by

  experts and it needs to be sorted in my

  favor preferably again do you want to

  count it looks like there's a little

  antenna on top of the mighty black stump

  should antennas count do you think that

  it should count if it works in your

  favor it shouldn't count if it doesn't

  work in your favor I think that sums up

  my attitude yes okay that's the way that

  works yeah

  can we get some people to do that kind

  of surveying you do when you're looking

  at mountains with these two buildings in

  Adelaide yeah that's what I'm hoping for

  triangulates from known heights the

  heights of these two buildings I would

  like to see that and you know I don't

  want to make promises mm-hmm but H I

  medals of Honor could be at stake here

  depending on the result yeah depending

  on the result and be aware dear

  listeners I will find it nothing but

  hilarious

  if the Grenville centre mighty black

  stump is firmly solidified in third

  place that would be hilarious for me not

  so hilarious for Brady well

  interestingly I'm looking at that

  picture that you sent and I mean toaster

  building does look a little bit taller

  from that angle but you can't really

  tell yeah also by the way you don't know

  this but I'll tell you so that you're

  fully in the picture the tallest

  building is also in that picture just

  the bottom part of it hmm in the top

  right corner of that picture you sent

  you see like a sort of a oh right Riano

  page building that's the tallest

  building but so what you're telling me

  no matter what the current situation is

  which of these buildings is a metre

  taller than the other yeah there's going

  to be a lot of new construction

  in the ever dynamic urban core that is

  Adelaide that's going to dwarf all of

  these buildings if that's what's

  happening here yeah well not Toto be cuz

  one of the nice things about Adelaide is

  it's not too tall like then they do that

  on purpose cousins you know pleasant

  place we don't want all your big nasty

  skyscrapers nothing worse than a

  skyscraper the pinnacle of human

  achievement you don't want that Natalie

  now don't get me wrong don't get me

  wrong you know I do love a good skies

  mate but the funny thing is I'm here

  saying come on someone help me out my

  job when I was the Civic reporter at the

  Adelaide Advertiser

  was actually going to the Adelaide City

  Council archives and looking at all the

  planning applications and getting them

  all out because I would report on you

  know new buildings that were going to be

  built so I am the man to do this

  but unfortunately I'm just too far away

  from Adelaide now so you don't want to

  do it for the love of journalism brady

  go fly down and do a little

  investigative reporting yourself to find

  this out no you don't want to do oh

  maybe maybe we considered a Kickstarter

  this is a sort of a mission to go down

  to Adelaide measure some buildings I

  feel like there's got to be a video in

  this somewhere for you Brady right on

  your building file channel or whatever

  like somewhere there's a YouTube video

  of you going down to Adelaide to measure

  these two buildings that are next to

  each other there's got to be a place

  that you have to put that off or the

  book I'm writing will hook up publishing

  down out the comprehensive history of

  the muddy black stuff from when it was

  just a twinkle in someone's eye right

  through to when it was finally surpassed

  as the tallest building in Adelaide

  somehow this feels like an inevitability

  I'll just wait for the publication I

  don't know I guess a lot of Tim's would

  buy it but other than that I don't think

  there's going to be an obviously like

  building manager of the building might

  but the one who thinks I'm crazy after I

  gave him a t-shirt really I don't think

  this is a project that you're doing for

  the money I think this is a project

  you're doing for the love and I can just

  interject that all right this is a

  passion project of yours mighty black

  stamp watch this space come on let's

  pull together here wisdom of the crowds

  and all that let's figure this one out

  speaking of architectural marvels that

  have been written into hello internet

  law I am going to Dulles this weekend oh

  are you I am I'm flying to Washington no

  not even this weekend I'm in two days

  time from when we're speaking Brady you

  exhaust me with your seemingly from my

  perspective constant flying

  know that I have a like a selection bias

  here that I hear about all the time that

  your fly so it feels more frequent than

  it probably really is but it seems to me

  like you are constantly John ting to

  different areas of the world to film

  things to go on vacation for exciting

  travels to meet Russian poets you're

  just doing amazing things around the

  world constantly and I feel like I can

  never keep up well at this point I would

  interject and correct you and add some

  clarification but you just made me sound

  so awesome that I'm just going to let

  that fly ya know just let it slide man

  it's totally fine and this is how you

  are in my mind you're like some kind of

  modern adventurer except with airplanes

  with the amount of traveling that you're

  the Russian poet thing was a nice touch

  as well it made me feel that Lord Byron

  or something I'm just describing your

  life to you man that's all I'm doing

  that's not how my life feels but it's so

  cool I'm just gonna keep going I am

  going to Washington for the National

  math festival Oh as part of my

  numberphile and MSRI responsibilities

  I'm looking forward to doing a couple of

  live shows with Matt Parker and the very

  exciting one with cliff style the crazy

  Klein bottle guy he's also good value so

  I would spend more time promoting it but

  by the time this podcast has gone out it

  will have been in God and then I'm going

  to Miami where I've never been before

  for a brief holiday and then I'm coming

  home but the thing I want to know from

  you is how to prepare myself for my

  Dulles experience because I'm pretty

  sure this is going to be my first time

  there what do I look for what do I do

  like talk me through it well it all

  depends on where you're getting in I

  presume that you're going to be landing

  in the international terminal because I

  get tweets from people who are like oh

  I'm in Dulles it's not so bad right and

  that's the voice that they're using in

  my head when they tweet those things

  yeah and that is because they are in the

  domestic a B terminals terrible

  terminals the old terminals with

  inconsistent heating and low ceilings

  and smelly carpets is the CD terminals

  which are generally used for

  international flights so I'm gonna guess

  that you're probably in there yeah

  now can we remember off the top of our

  head one of those gates was a cursed

  gate where an accident took place on a

  previous episode hello Internet well

  loop that up yeah we got to find that

  out Brady so that's obviously one of the

  tourist spots that you need to go and

  point at that's

  to be on your list Thank You Fido of it

  yep yeah now it's funny that you

  mentioned this because I have not

  verified this I'm going to be relying on

  your journalistic skills to verify this

  I have just heard today breaking Dulles

  news that the at transports are no

  longer in operation at that Airport oh

  yeah I don't know if it's true I can't

  verify this firsthand I'm going to rely

  on you to let me know what the situation

  is down there with what happened did

  Luke Skywalker cut a hole in the bottom

  I want to throw a charge into it yeah

  okay Disney was like you need to pay as

  licensing rights for you things one of

  the two I know that there has been a lot

  bunch of redevelopment work at Dulles to

  try to take it from worst Airport in the

  world to just marginally acceptable

  Airport in the world and as part of that

  I saw a construction on some kind of

  train transport between the terminals

  last time I was there and so I've just

  heard that that is now done and those at

  transports might be over which quite

  frankly I'll be a little sad about if

  that is true because it was by far and

  away the most remarkable and most

  interesting thing at Dulles Airport and

  now even that will be gone which makes

  it even less interesting I'm gutted I

  was so looking for that was the one

  thing I was looking forward to I know

  it's the only thing a person can look

  forward to at that Airport I hope I'm

  wrong I'll hear about that from you in

  the future otherwise no the best thing I

  can tell you to do is if you're landing

  there just get out as fast as you can

  after visiting the cursed gate at Dulles

  Airport Hara I'll let you know how a guy

  I'll report back with the pictures and

  all that sort of stuff

  pointing pointing pictures speaking also

  of sort of breaking news of things we

  like to follow and again I'm a little

  bit in the dark here but this is

  potentially huge

  hmm CGP grey the penguin the lady

  penguin right if you have a look at the

  link that I've put there in the notes

  apparently Bristol Zoo where CGP grey

  the penguin lives hmm has sent 19 of its

  young South African penguins to Tbilisi

  is that how you pronounce it capital of

  Georgia oh yeah two Blissett I'm very

  familiar with Tbilisi that is exactly

  how you pronounce a 19 penguins have

  been sent there to the penguin pool at

  Tbilisi Zoo

  mm-hmm they had some problems there

  recently with flooding and the zoo

  suffered a lot of damage and animal

  losses along with human losses and sort

  of because Bristol is sort of the sister

  city of Tbilisi the zoos are sort of

  friendly so these penguins have been

  sent and if it's a young South African

  penguin and 19 of them have gone you

  know I'm thinking are you telling me

  that CGP grey the penguin might have

  died in a flood and I Georgia is that

  what you're telling me this article that

  you've sent me says two hundred and

  eighty-one of the zoo's thousand plus

  animals died in this disaster now grey

  the penguins have been sent after the

  flood to help restock the zoo okay

  that's less alarming yes sorry other

  animals I are not named after me I care

  much less about your well-being so what

  I'm saying is I don't know but it's

  possible that grey has left the country

  this is going to make it much more

  difficult for you to keep up your

  regular and ongoing correspondence with

  CGP creator penguin that you have so

  diligently maintained low these past

  years and months keeping the audience

  updated on what she's up to

  you've been so diligent about it this is

  going to make that a bit more difficult

  but I'm sure you'll keep doing just as

  good of a job as you have been doing in

  the future if she actually has left I

  was fondly sucking myself up to go and

  do this visit now maybe she's not even

  there I love that you're telling

  yourself like oh you were psyching

  yourself up for this visit like I was

  just about to visit I feel like when I

  was a kid and my parents would yell at

  me to clean my room I always had this

  feeling like ah I was just about to

  write but there's no way I was really

  just about to like now that I'm being

  told to do a thing like you have this

  reverse memory of like I was just about

  to why'd you have to bother me so you

  kind of think you were just about to

  visit this penguin you only feel that

  way because now there's a possibility

  that you can't okay that's true but

  isn't it really frustrating at those

  times when you were just about to do

  something and then you get told to do it

  and you know no I really was just about

  to do it but how do you distinguish that

  feeling from just the constant feeling

  and what it does happen right I think

  this is like a false memory you know

  when you were really going to do it so

  anyway ctp gray the lady penguin wing

  tag number a 205 83 mm-hmm I don't know

  where she is

  it's been a holiday here in the UK since

  I found out the news frustratingly it's

  been a four-day holiday over Easter as I

  can't contact anyone at the zoo but uh

  we need to get on this I think the more

  exciting thing is for some Tbilisi Tim's

  with a zoom lens to go out to the zoo

  and try to find the lady penguin CGP

  grey out there if they can I think

  that's what should happen

  Tbilisi Tim's you were called upon in

  this moment you weren't expecting this

  yeah but we're relying on you so put on

  hold that trip to Adelaide you were

  doing to survey the muddy black stump

  and first of all head to your local Zoo

  and check out the Penguins

  I mean I'd feel a bit sad if they went

  there and it turns out grey hasn't been

  moved but that's part of it that's part

  of it just go carefully catalog all of

  the serial numbers of all of the

  Penguins and let us know let us know

  what the situation is I wonder if it

  kept its wing tag and number or it has

  to get like a tbilisi wing tag with a

  new number and the other ones been cut

  off I don't know hmm feels like there

  should be some sort of international

  identification number system for zoos

  transferring animals back and forth

  otherwise like if you're loaning a zoo

  an animal how do you know if you got the

  same one back if you're allowed to cut

  off the tags I feel like those tags have

  to be the same everywhere good point

  they don't let they come on and off very

  easily either but they must come off

  there because presumably the wing grows

  and they need to put bigger tags on I

  don't know there's a lot of unanswered

  questions here I really we're rapidly

  wandering into like meat security

  questions here's like somebody out there

  it's their job to deal with the

  technology behind the tags on a penguin

  fake and they're like screaming at the

  podcast right now I thought the answer

  to this question I do this all day this

  is the third podcast this week I've

  heard get that wrong speaking of animals

  orgies snoring a bit so I'm just gonna

  give her a little nudge with my foot

  stop snoring stop it oh I'll send you

  the tibula see

  oh poor Audrey I would never do that she

  knows a little delicate background

  snores they can be part of the podcast

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  making this episode possible you may

  remember Brady on the podcast long ago

  I may have complained a little bit about

  the way Kindles

  format the text on screen I don't know

  if this sounds familiar to you or not it

  was a minor annoyance of yours I seem to

  recall there was a minor annoyance that

  was like a dagger in my soul every time

  I tried to use a Kindle yeah so much so

  that I eventually abandoned my beloved

  Kindle and went over to iBooks because

  knows how you're supposed to format text

  on a screen and Kindle did not well I

  would be remiss if I did not mention

  that remarkably as of yesterday a mere

  several decades after Kindles have come

  out they have finally released an update

  that allows a reader to have a ragged

  right on their text to left align all of

  the words on the page it's an amazing

  moment for all of us

  I must have received ten twenty thousand

  tweets letting me know that there was a

  software update for Kindles that finally

  allowed the thing that I asked about for

  so long for so passionately that I

  wanted it is now here and it's available

  if you have a Kindle people go update

  the software on your Kindle you too can

  experience an amazing reading experience

  huge man it's like the JFK assassination

  where were you when can define and went

  right ragged I remember where I was I

  was at home I had a Kindle and I was

  pressing the update my Kindle button

  right like I want to see this software

  update like update update update my

  Kindle was going like I don't know what

  you're talking about there's no software

  update available I was shaking my fist

  and like curse you CDN like this update

  hasn't been distributed yet to the UK or

  wherever it is in your Amazon network so

  actually like I like I want to see this

  right now so I went onto the kindle

  support page and like hard downloaded

  the software update manually transferred

  via USB over to the Kindle did like a

  force reboot update of the device with

  like I need to see what this looks like

  first hand I can't trust people's

  reports of how it looks I need to see

  this for myself and the answer is it

  looks like books are supposed to look so

  it's fantastic that sounds like quite a

  day you know sometimes I think I

  couldn't make up stories to make you fit

  your stereotype any better than the

  actual stories that you tell what do you

  mean baby I could have made that up if

  someone said make up a story that makes

  gray sound like really pedantic and

  nerdy and into technology I wouldn't

  have come up with a better story than

  the one you just told what about doing

  the manual update like who actually sits

  looking to screen saying curse you CDM

  but that's what it is like they just

  haven't distributed the update to all of

  the networks yet I know I understand

  what happened I didn't want to wait it

  seems very straightforward to me okay

  let's all thing and is this going to

  result in you going back to Kindle here

  is the interesting thing the interesting

  thing is why did I have a Kindle to

  update in the first place because I had

  abandoned Kindle a long time ago and I

  hated their old paperwhite Kindle hmm so

  Amazon has been very slowly trying to

  make their typography better and over

  the summer they introduced a precursor

  to this which was actually hyphenating

  words correctly so they used to never

  even break words at the syllable level

  on the edge of a page they used to just

  have these horrific ugly gaps and what I

  wanted to see this past summer because I

  have been making a real concerted effort

  to try to read more books over the past

  year or so essentially to take time away

  from reddit and hacker news and to

  divert that time war into books and that

  was one of the things that when I was

  using Kindle years ago that I really

  liked is that I always found that having

  it as a separate device was helpful to

  reading more as opposed to reading on my

  iPad but I gave it up because I couldn't

  deal with the formatting so when they

  introduced some slightly better

  typography plus when they introduced the

  latest version of the Kindle which is

  the Kindle Oasis which actually is

  designed with revolutionary buttons for

  turning the page and it's designed

  actually to be a good ebook reader I

  thought I'm gonna give this a try like

  I'm gonna give you a second go here

  Kindle and see how it works and I was

  using it for the summer I was using it

  for a little while I found that the

  hyphenation alone did not make enough of

  a difference like it's still very

  annoying for the little narrator in my

  head to be speeding up and slowing down

  ever so slightly even if it was way

  better so I put it away reluctantly like

  I was hoping that that Kindle experiment

  would work but it didn't quite take yeah

  but that's why I had it in a drawer and

  so when I heard this news is like I'm

  updating this right away so it just

  happened yesterday

  I've been reading a couple of books on

  the Kindle annoyingly Kindle for some

  reason they don't do it with all books

  they only have this available for some

  books

  so you have to check in advance but I'm

  going to give this a real go and try to

  use the Kindle again as a dedicated

  separate breeding device because I

  really do think that is a big advantage

  plus it doesn't help that Apple has not

  updated their software for iBooks in

  like three years they've added no new

  features and Kindle has very slowly been

  adding useful features over this time

  none of them are deal-breakers on their

  own but each one is like a nice little

  addition so the Kindle is again an

  attractive option that I'm going to give

  a real try this time so I'm very happy

  about this well now that the Kindle

  influencer CGP grey has been fully wooed

  I think it's your move iBooks what could

  i books do to get you back to iBooks

  here's the problem right

  iBooks always has one major disadvantage

  which is that it's always going to be on

  an iPad yeah and I do really like having

  a separate thing I find it's nice to

  have a separate thing that's like a

  physical reminder of oh you should be

  reading a book as dumb as that sounds I

  really do like that even when you're

  traveling grind when you're thinking

  argh on the pliant gotta pack my iPad

  and my Kindle wouldn't it be better to

  have one device it would be better in

  terms of packing to have one device but

  it is that extra reminder that I find is

  visually there so it's more top of mind

  that this is an additional thing I

  really do like that and iBooks is always

  going to lose that battle in that I'm

  always going to be able to do something

  else and I'm aware that when I'm reading

  on an iPad even on my like super

  lockdown I can only do very few things

  on this except read iPad I'm still

  always tempted to like flip away and oh

  let me just quickly add something to a

  little note that I have somewhere else

  I'm still more likely to flip out of it

  whereas with a dedicated device I'm less

  likely to flip out of it so it's always

  a big advantage to Kindle I don't know

  how books could do but it's funny

  because I went back and I read that that

  old article that I wrote when I was

  talking about originally switching from

  Kindle to iBooks and I made a note about

  how like Oh Kindles software development

  is glacially slow and so like I booked

  some obviously will be developed more

  quickly than that as like iBooks

  hasn't changed at all in that whole time

  that like turns out glacially slow

  development is faster than nothing at

  all

  so iBooks is the tortoise like winning

  this race against a hare that is totally

  napping great as always there's been

  lots of listener emails

  never really know which ones to put on

  the show but I've got a couple here that

  caught my eye that I tell you about

  that's the right thing there Brady you

  don't mention how many because then I

  can just cut them yeah sometimes you're

  like oh I have exactly three listening

  emails and I have to cut that sentence

  and then just have a number of listener

  emails so this one came in from a Tim

  you two unveiled the world of podcast to

  me and I'm a long time listener to your

  show now nothing compares to a long and

  naughty episode of hallo internet I just

  had my wisdom tooth extracted and you

  guys made me bear this horrid procedure

  ever since I was a child I never liked

  any form of surgical intrusion and like

  those children who do it I can't say who

  are those people I'm sure there's at

  least one one weirdo but for the most of

  us now No thank you and I absolutely

  despise disappointment at my dentist so

  what this Tim did was he listened to an

  episode of hello Internet while having

  the procedure done thank you guys for

  making my tooth surgery more tolerable

  and please keep producing the world's

  most interesting podcast on the internet

  and on vinyl this is some serious

  sucking up going on here yeah I know

  gray wants proof and as my wisdom tooth

  had to be sawn into tiny pieces in order

  to even get it out of the guns god I'm

  sending you a picture of my medication

  instead of a shattered tooth and there's

  basically a picture of a whole bunch of

  medical things plus a phone listening to

  hello Internet as proof the thing I

  found interesting though was this Tim

  also pointed out to the episode that he

  listened to during the procedure I'm

  guessing you might be able to guess what

  it is no but it was episode 35 which is

  entitled are my teeth real so very nice

  choice so great I had a question I was

  going to ask you as a result of this

  lesson but I don't need to ask you

  because coincidentally we have another

  email from another Tim this is an

  Australian Tim called Sandra mm-hmm and

  Sandra says user

  all my titles here so showing total

  respect dear dr. Brady hard as nails

  soft as cushions Herron this is a

  partial good yes I'll forgive that one

  yes that was in the right place yeah

  and the dr. counts for a lot I know yeah

  it's a bit like getting like an MBA or

  an OBE

  wrong you know softest cushions Pasha's

  cushions as long as cushions are in

  there were okay so anyway this one from

  Sandra says I've just had my upper right

  wisdom teeth extracted tweet us if you

  have a go wisdom tooth from oh no I'm

  only tweet brady bleh pretty we got a

  lot of people listening to this right

  the number people who are getting a

  wisdom tooth extracted right now is a

  non-trivial number uh only tweet me if

  you're having a wisdom tooth removed you

  are in the chair and you are listening

  to hello Internet yeah and only tweet

  brady no come on surely you would allow

  tweet for that that's not how this works

  again didn't you learn haven't you learn

  from the tweet of me if you're not on a

  plane debacle that will haunt us until

  the end of time yeah but then I open the

  door for everyone surely my more

  detailed description there is gonna keep

  it specific not as the podcast keeps

  growing man like we're getting into big

  numbers here so now I want to make it

  real clear do I really admire your

  ambition that you're worried about the

  number of people who are right now

  sitting in a dentist's chair listening

  to hello Internet anyway as I say and I

  had wisdom teeth removed now the dentist

  made the offer to keep the extracted

  tooth mm-hmm

  Sandra declined instead I've donated my

  tooth to the student hospital for

  education purposes which I didn't even

  know was a thing like I would have

  thought wisdom teeth were a dime a dozen

  anyway my question to you is whether you

  and gravy wants to answer have had your

  wisdom teeth extracted and if so did you

  keep your extracted tooth you strike me

  I think as me Brady you strike me as

  someone who would hoard his teeth kind

  regards Sandra have you had your wisdom

  teeth extracted gray if you wish to

  answer I know you know your medical

  records sir you're going business but I

  think we can safely go into the wisdom

  teeth territory yes I had one of my

  wisdom teeth removed hmm because it was

  causing a problem in the back of my gums

  I had one of them removed in retrospect

  very sketch

  gee dentist office that was just up a

  staircase on this high street and I'll

  never forget that it was done so quickly

  and sort of without ceremony the whole

  it just made me have this done this

  sounds Wow dodgy some back lined it was

  in London I mean this is like 12 years

  ago now I still do past that staircase

  every once in a while and I'm like oh

  yeah I know there's a little man up

  there who pulls out teeth yeah I thought

  that spot is it like that dodgy guy that

  does your iPhone screen for ya and quit

  or something I think that's essentially

  what it was right yeah I would have been

  like a very poor student at the time so

  it's like a discount dentist but yeah I

  remember it because the guy reaches in

  there and he's like wiggling around he

  seems to not be able to get the tooth

  out and he looks at me he goes I'm gonna

  really lean into this one and before I

  could do anything he kinda like got up

  on top of me and just leaned like right

  into this tool that was holding onto the

  tooth and it was the loudest most

  terrifying crack in my head that I'd

  ever heard all right and you think

  playing crash chord is inappropriate

  you're asking this question that's what

  happens he got the whole thing out but

  it was like he did it so quickly because

  I think he knew I would object much more

  sternly if I had a moment to realize

  what was happening and he's like I'm

  just gonna throw my body weight into

  this one buddy like that's how we're

  gonna get this tooth out so yes I've had

  one wisdom tooth removed and now since

  then what about you brain I bet you're a

  guy that doesn't like going to the

  dentist oh yeah of course not of course

  not know who does Monda I don't Monda we

  mean you don't mind it I don't know I

  always have quite pleasant experiences

  when I go to the dentist this is again

  you live in this whole like Brady

  alternate universe where everybody's

  friendly and things are always pleasant

  I don't understand and we you are given

  the option to keep this tooth already

  already sold it to sell in some black

  market down the back lane or something I

  don't even remember if I was given the

  option to keep obviously I don't have it

  why would anyone keep a wisdom tooth I

  don't remember yeah if I was even given

  the option or if it was immediately sold

  and as in somebody else's head in China

  now like I have no idea

  I have not had my wisdom teeth removed

  I've never really had a bad dental

  procedure mm-hmm whether I'd keep it on

  I probably would I don't know what I'd

  do with it but what would you do with it

  why would you keep I don't know but I

  know about a year ago Audrey had to have

  some teeth removed because she had some

  teeth problems and I have got those

  teeth somewhere in my room in a little

  tiny little testing because they're so

  cute they like this look tiny cute

  little dog teeth and she's got such tiny

  teeth or Dury they're like you know

  little pinpricks do you take him out

  every once in a while do you show them

  to Audrey no I showed my wife and I

  don't think she was particularly

  impressed I wonder is there anybody you

  could show these teeth to who would be

  particularly impressed I don't know

  you're right I probably shouldn't have

  kept him I think you can safely get rid

  of those Brady let's start the dehorning

  process with something small tiny

  Chihuahua gee that's a bad as small as

  you can start with exactly so there you

  go Sandra Grey has had it done quite

  horrific we by the sounds of it and did

  not keep the tooth and I have not had it

  done and as you will keep the tooth do

  you know what I think maybe I wouldn't

  oh wow I feel like we're making progress

  Brady

  I don't like teeth I don't like how

  teeth look when they're not in a mouth

  and in gums like teeth when they're out

  and you see like all the roots and the

  whole full horror of a tooth it's not

  quite as nice as when you just see the

  part that sticks out above the gum

  they're not good looking things teeth I

  don't like how they've got those two

  little prong bits on the bottom that

  yeah now now I wouldn't keep the roots

  that dig into your gums Brady that's you

  don't like to think about that don't

  like it your whole mouth is just just

  full of pieces of calcium that have

  roots that dig into your soft gums you

  don't like thinking about that although

  you just said who would like Audrey's

  teeth Sandra actually signed off her

  email as from Sandra fellow Aussie

  devoted hello internet listener and

  number for Audrey fan bracket after you

  your wife and gray maybe that would be

  an appropriate gift to Sandra and I'll

  get rid of the teeth Sandra if you would

  like Audrey's teeth let me know and I'll

  get them shipped over to us for you I

  had the crazy things I know that you

  will actually do this if it happens I

  just know what I'll take it right

  however you're going to get rid of those

  teeth whatever you need to do I think

  that'll work

  I'll be happy if that's how they go I'd

  put them straight in the garbage but if

  you feel they need to send them to

  Australia that works too

  one last listener email this is

  brilliant

  okay you're gonna like this now you're

  big in it up Brady I'm confident you're

  confident okay alright you know it's

  really got to work if you big it up like

  that well one of the few things that I

  know you do like that shows you're more

  human side mm-hmm

  at cute animals oh yeah I think you're a

  bit of a sucker for cute animals I think

  you're wrong

  cute animals now did do not move my

  metallic art what you does Audrey is a

  very nice doggy this is from Rosie it

  starts off dear Brady

  here's another things people do while

  listening to a chai story for you last

  summer

  I conducted wildlife surveys in the

  Carrizo Plain National Monument in

  California we spent one month trapping

  San Joaquin antelope squirrels a

  threatened species okay I'm going to

  send you a picture of what one of these

  sand will Queen antelope squirrels looks

  like there has been sent advice quite a

  name that's quite an infernal it is

  here's a picture of one via Rosie so

  this was taken by Rosie in Scituate

  we marked their bums with Sharpie okay

  we will get there I was running out of

  ideas for symbols to do but since I had

  been marathoning AJ while doing some of

  our more tedious surveys I realized I

  could give a few of them a chai themed

  names so attached are some pictures of

  squirrels named hello Internet Brady

  Haran

  CGP and nailing gear and just so you can

  see what we're talking about here are

  you about to send me pictures of

  squirrel butts with names written on

  them yep here's the squirrel back with

  b8 written on it for Brady Haran and

  then here comes the squirrel but with

  cgp

  written on it so basically these tiny

  squirrels quite largely have had these

  things done on them but best of all is

  the nailing gear

  here is a endangered squirrel in

  California with an ailing gear drawn on

  its bum in sharpie I would describe this

  as the rump of the squirrel is where

  this is drunk this is not what I was

  imagining around the actual real butt of

  the squirrel right that's what I was

  expecting you sending me for pictures of

  right this is yeah squirrel rump right

  not yet world but just a cipher work

  yeah exactly right yeah if you're

  listening to hello internet at work you

  can safely click on this link and not

  have to worry that your boss is gonna

  come over in an opportune time and ask

  why on earth are you looking at

  photographs of scroll bot yeah you can

  say it's like a boss it's just the rump

  yeah it's just the rump totally safe for

  work that nail in gear on little

  squirrel though that's very cute is very

  cute it is cool and also you know I've

  sent you bits of paper where they were

  doing all the work anyway you get the

  impression how long do they need to

  track these squirrels for though because

  that has to come off eventually is this

  just a temporary tracking process that's

  going on here I imagine I imagine so

  anyway she finishes her mo with

  ironically CGP the squirrel ended up

  being a female just like the penguin

  that seems like this is the this is how

  it works when cgb is a different animal

  I'm sure you can guess what my

  one-sentence reply to Rosie was I cannot

  well I wanted to know what the gender of

  Brady H I and Nalin gear were all right

  okay so here's a little chart here's a

  little chart oh you can look it up

  yourself on the chat Brady's a boy I

  prefer man but ok boy ha sorry yeah no

  wait

  I don't think a male squirrel can be a

  man I think that's what can be a boy

  either look right because dogs dogs can

  be a good boy right but you would never

  say to a grown up dog that he's a good

  man

  right right I do say to my dogs good

  girl I've never called them good woman

  yeah all right that'd be super weird so

  I just call them ladies though I do call

  my dogs ladies that's also fine right

  you can see like oh hello ladies right

  when the two of them walk in the room I

  think I sometimes sing all the single

  ladies when they walk in the room okay

  it's a little too much personal

  information but that still works right

  that's what I'm saying if I'd sung it

  that would have been weird okay or I

  think you can address a pack of dogs as

  guys right all of this works but I don't

  think it works if we're going to a man

  or a woman so I'm gonna stick with

  The Brady Haran squirrel is a boy

  squirrel what could we go mail or we

  could say he's a mail squirrel that is

  also true because that's what Rosie said

  Rosie said Brady was a mail so was a

  chai and Nalin gear so the only lady was

  CGP that's fine I'm happy with that

  that were right with that I know CGP

  grey the squirrel she's the one actually

  making sure that there are more of these

  endangered squirrels in the future she's

  doing the hard work yeah I'm not gonna

  argue with that thank you very much

  definitely have a look at these pictures

  of squirrel rumps in the show notes if

  you are so inclined yeah if you want to

  see squirrel rumps we've got some you've

  come to the right point one hello

  Internet I've never heard that podcast

  arts that one will they always talk

  about squirrel rumps oh yeah I like that

  stuff I love those squirt room guys

  they're awesome

  yeah who could have thought they'd get

  so many episodes out of it but anyway

  yeah I can't wait for all of this follow

  up in the future right nailing gear

  squirrels spotted in the wild right

  someone's just walking around in

  California they happen to be a Tim and

  right by them runs a squirrel with an

  and character on the rump like what the

  heck

  I'm never gonna believe this speaking of

  things you would not believe mm-hmm

  we have just passed another April Fool's

  Day why wouldn't you believe that it

  comes every year I thought that was a

  nice segue you've just completely ruined

  it was that a joke was there now's to be

  a job but uh how was that anyway because

  like things you wouldn't believe in

  April Fool's days telling people you

  know making people believe things that

  aren't real doesn't matter it's very

  clever

  I'm sorry Brady it's very clever that

  was a fantastic segue there thank you

  thank you it's it's gonna give a better

  man ten out of ten would say way again

  so April Fool's Day we've got to retire

  this thing thank God

  I know what a waste of time it also

  feels like you've ruined it everybody

  yeah right you have ruined it you're all

  too into this that now it's not fun

  anymore do you know what's ruined up

  gray what social media and

  corporatization yeah social media that's

  a good one but I was going to say it's

  companies getting on board yet now is

  the worst I imagine there are businesses

  now that have whole departments

  dedicated to like next year's April

  Fool's Day joke mm-hmm and like April

  Fool's Day is not about that what is the

  true meaning of April Fool's

  I actually don't know what its history

  is and I don't need to know because now

  the bloody subreddits gonna be full of

  it

  so I'm going to spend the next two weeks

  basically immersed in the minutiae of

  how April Fool's Day came to be I don't

  care how it came to be I'm sure it's a

  good story

  I liked April Fool's Day back in the day

  when it was like a thing that maybe one

  newspaper would maybe do or like your

  local TV station London something every

  few years and you know there are some

  classics but now it's just tiresome like

  what they need to do is that all the

  businesses and PR departments and

  companies and people in the world and

  news organizations that need to get

  together and say alright this year you

  can do one mm-hmm and no one else can do

  it because when every man and their dog

  is doing it all giggling to themself

  like a dad who's just told a dad joke

  yeah we just did like oh yeah look what

  you just did and every single other

  person in my timeline just did go away

  yeah you know what that's what it is

  it's like dad joke day

  yeah that's precisely what it is it's

  like Oh Google has a video about their

  Google Nome instead of Google home it's

  like oh my god I can't deal with this

  this is terrible

  yeah yes it's like dad jokes from

  corporations because real humor always

  has a little bit of like an edge to it

  that's what makes it funny but a company

  they don't want to have any edge to

  anything so which is going to be some

  stupid pun right that's what they're

  gonna do and you also know they're like

  measuring their engagement with the joke

  right last year's April Fool's Day

  performance we had double the retweets

  of this year's April Fool's Day

  tweet that we did last year and it's

  like if anyone is going to be suckered

  in by some traditional day and a bit of

  tomfoolery it's me and I bloody hate it

  yeah I'm actually kind of surprised that

  you're on this side of it I assumed you

  were going to be on the other side of

  this I've like a let's return to the

  true meaning of April Fool's but I'm

  actually somewhat surprised yeah that

  you don't you don't want to go along

  with this non tastic tradition can't

  stand get rid of it for the past several

  years I have taken April Fool's as my

  annual don't go on the Internet at all

  day and here's the thing in the past I

  occasionally would tweet about this like

  I put up a little image like I'm just

  not going to be online today everybody

  like goodbye I recommend you do this

  same thing like just unplugged for a day

  you won't miss anything but I was aware

  this year that April fools again because

  of social media it like it's it bleeds

  into it's actually a lot closer to two

  days like two and a half days yeah

  because you have people all over the

  world and the day after people are still

  retweeting stuff from April Fool's so I

  think in the future I might have to

  start quarantine in this day with like a

  whole week around it of like I'm just

  not going on the internet at this time

  because everything is super dumb it's

  super dumb and it's super frustrating

  and the Internet's full of untrue crap

  anyway in an era of fake news let's not

  even start a fake news this is talk

  about stuff that's wrong or stuff that's

  supposed to be a joke and this stuff

  lasts forever - it's not like a

  newspaper story or an old TV telecast on

  the BBC 40 years ago that went out and

  was forgotten yeah or the fish and chips

  was Repton this stuff hangs around

  forever as well yeah so it just becomes

  this like legacy of that's not the point

  yes it's not the old BBC broadcast about

  the spaghetti harvest yeah so guess what

  everybody

  everyday is April Fool's on the Internet

  in some way right where it's just like

  filled with stuff that can't possibly be

  real and trying to sort it out from the

  stuff that isn't so yeah it's a

  frustrating holiday if it's not

  corporations being dumb I also feel like

  it's a weird day where it's like people

  have a permission to be like a jackass

  like this is a holiday that has almost

  no redeeming characteristics at all I'm

  not sure I'd call a holiday but I know

  you know yeah we put it we put it in the

  pantheon of holidays right a st.

  Patrick's Day

  Cupid's Day I don't think there are

  people that have like a day off April

  Fool's Day they like but anyway the

  problem is every day has this done to it

  because now like there's like so much

  stuff there's so much Twitter and

  Facebook and there's so much PR and spin

  and stuff everything gets ruined and I

  accept you know Christmas has to be

  ruined that's what Christmas is mm-hmm

  and all these major holidays everyone

  jumps on but it seems like anything that

  comes up now gets destroyed like this

  and another prime example that you're

  probably not as exposed to because you

  don't have a mathematics YouTube channel

  but I do mmm and that's pi day this you

  know 14th of March through 14 like when

  that sort of got a little bit of

  traction a few years ago and like I put

  up a couple of Pi Day videos and you

  know

  was a little fun thing but now just like

  every man woman and their dog jumps all

  over pi day as an excuse for publicity

  and attention and it's like ah I almost

  want to pull off the internet now for

  three days before in three days after pi

  day because i obviously follow a lot of

  math you people and stuff and like my

  timeline facebook and that just becomes

  a kind of issue around that time as well

  this makes me laugh because i feel like

  you are at the center of a particular

  kind of storm here

  i have a hard time imagining anybody who

  might be on the receiving end of more pi

  day stuff than you is like if we're

  complaining about Oh hot stopper news

  like there's just too much of it all the

  time it's like well actually we're like

  the Nexus of all hot stuff is it's not

  like a society-wide problem and that

  might be a little bit of pi day for you

  yeah it's like you're gonna be right at

  the center of this anyway I proposed I

  had enough but gah why I do have to

  mention one thing here though that I

  would be remiss if I did not mention

  which is that one corporation that I

  think at least does something

  interesting sometimes on April Fool's is

  reddit they don't do jokes right they're

  not doing some joke they don't release

  like a dumb feature that they pretend is

  real but they have done little like

  experiments on their user base sometimes

  over April Fool's and the one that they

  did this year was actually quite amazing

  and did cross my attention which was our

  place this big pixel art I don't know if

  you saw this at all break yes I did I

  did I found it very interesting

  so for listeners who are unaware reddit

  what they started on April 1st and they

  let it run for I think 72 hours in the

  end or something like that was they

  created a blank grid there was a

  thousand pixels by a thousand pixels and

  all of reddits users every 5 minutes

  could color in one of the pixels any

  color they wanted over the 72 hours I

  have to say it was just

  very interesting thing to see different

  groups of people coming together to try

  to represent their group on this piece

  of artwork that was being created this

  was a just a very interesting look into

  groups interacting with each other on

  the internet because it required

  teamwork didn't you would have to say

  okay everyone let's let tag at this

  portion of the grid and use of all our

  app credits or our time or our colors to

  try and create this image and other

  people might try and come in and

  encroach upon it that's exactly like as

  an individual user all you could do was

  just put down a pixel and there were

  plenty of people who were just

  essentially defacing the image by just

  putting down random color pixels all

  over the place but then there were much

  bigger groups that we're trying to say

  like we will defend the American flag in

  the center of this image right but in

  order to do that we need to convince a

  couple thousand people to keep this tab

  open in the background on their

  computers and monitor the American flag

  and change all the colors to make it

  match there was a group that was calling

  themselves just the Void who was trying

  to black out the whole canvas and it's

  really interesting like people have put

  together time lapses of what happens

  with this image over time and you can

  see like these factions coming and going

  and like the void is growing and

  expanding and then people are working to

  push back the void and is I found it a

  very very interesting thing and of

  course the most interesting thing is

  that the listeners of hello Internet the

  huge number of Tim's that there are were

  able to secure a corner of the place for

  hello Internet and so there's our logo

  and not insignificant gray they did a

  really good job type they did a really

  good job it is not just a tiny little

  thing like it's a decent little chunk of

  this thing it's multiple images like we

  have our faces we have Flags rebel flags

  maybe but they're our rebels so it's

  okay yeah it was really interesting to

  see and especially because this didn't

  really cross my radar until just I think

  maybe only two hours before the whole

  thing was going to shut down so I have

  to give total credit to our audience

  that this was 100% arranged and

  accomplished just by them but for

  anybody listening I got put some links

  in the show notes

  of some of the time lapses what the

  final image looks like some close-ups of

  the hello Internet section yeah I I

  think this was a very interesting thing

  that occurred on the internet that was

  connected to April Fool's and is

  probably the best April Fool's related

  thing I have ever seen because it was

  actually interesting it's got nothing to

  do with April Fool's gray though other

  than they did it on April 4 yeah so I

  think I wouldn't count that as April

  Fool's but I thought it was cool I guess

  we have to talk about this one red pixel

  they approached on our little territory

  and someone put a little red pixel on

  the little H eye section of the image

  that unfortunately was there when it all

  shut down so it's there for eternity how

  do you feel about that oh but I'm

  totally fine with that right because

  that's what this thing is like I think

  that red pixel is an indicator of what

  this project was right where there are

  there are some people who are working

  against the coherence of the overall

  thing but I love this stuff because like

  as much trouble as we give Wikipedia I

  think Wikipedia is a testament to the

  fact that although people don't always

  think it most people are good and

  helpful right the a thing like Wikipedia

  could never exist if most people were

  what sometimes it seems like most people

  think anonymous people are which is just

  a bunch of jackasses out to ruin

  everything right and it's like if people

  weren't willing and able to coordinate

  and work towards the better good

  something like our place could never

  have happened at all it would just be a

  big massive noise but the fact that some

  people just want to see the world burn

  that's part of the experience of the

  Internet but overall people wanting to

  work together and be good is a bigger

  part of it so I feel like I'm totally

  fine with that red dot that red dot is

  almost symbolic of the fact that

  coordination triumphs over chaos so I

  have no problem with it

  there's also tradition I think it's a

  Far Eastern tradition amongst the sort

  of famous old rug makers who would

  stitch these incredible huge rugs that

  they put one stitch in the rug that is a

  mistake deliberately and that's like a

  reminder that only God is perfect you

  can't make a perfect rug cool so maybe

  that's a imperfect stitch as well I like

  it I have to say it was

  interesting to see the final image I

  think people should really take a look

  at it watch the time lapses they're very

  interesting and I have to say if I'm so

  pleased and surprised that our audience

  was able to coordinate and accomplish

  this thing all on their own it's very

  impressive it's very impressive speaking

  of our audience in Tim's I would like to

  say a quick hello to the surprisingly

  high number of Tim's that I bumped into

  at VidCon in Amsterdam European VidCon

  oh did you go which I mentioned I was

  going to I didn't know you were going oh

  and although gray is playing coy Gray

  was there as well or was I you wouldn't

  know there you were there I had a really

  good time mainly because I liked hanging

  out with you and some of our friends I

  had a really good time doing that I also

  did the things I had to do I did a talk

  on the first morning and I also went

  along and did a little workshop with

  some Tim's who had the surprise of gray

  coming along as a special guest you

  actually agreed to come along and talk

  with me which was very kind of you

  I was strong-armed into coming along by

  an unprepared Brady is how I would

  describe the situation you absolutely

  would not strong-armed I said it would

  be lovely for you to come along be a

  nice surprise for the people who came

  but you under no pressure and it's

  completely up to you I said I would like

  you to do it but if you don't like

  absolutely no problem I can see the

  ostia I think you were curious I will in

  public allow you to indulge that

  delusion how things went on it's not my

  personal experience of how it went down

  but no you did strong-arm me into going

  into a thing and yes I was there at

  VidCon in the end much to my surprise

  what did you think of it I mean I

  haven't been to the big American VidCon

  for years so I always forget that oh

  yeah what was your overall impression of

  VidCon Europe any sort of just quick

  executive summary I feel like I'm just

  the worst person in the world to try to

  give an executive summary of these

  things because I am I am going in such a

  strange way I feel like I am going as a

  tourist who is interested in this thing

  in a very abstract way because I'm not

  there as a creator learning how to work

  in the industry I'm also not there

  is one of the creators who like you is

  actually doing presentations and has an

  onstage presence so I always feel like

  very much like an odd man out at VidCon

  I feel I feel very much like I'm not

  really supposed to be here I'm here and

  just observing this like an

  anthropologist I just find it an

  interesting experience I don't know how

  other people experience VidCon like I

  think it's a very different thing if

  you're going on a stage I'm not asking

  how other people experience I'm asking

  how you experience it but that's what

  I'm saying like I experienced it as a

  tourist like I think it's very

  interesting to see I'm always very

  interested in how big things get pulled

  off like I find it fascinating of like

  how does this thing go from an idea in

  someone's head - oh there's thousands of

  people here

  and there are also sandwiches on that

  table over there and all of this has to

  be arranged somehow and it all seems

  like it's just so far beyond the mind of

  a single individual person and I don't

  understand how its coordinated like I

  always just find my mind being drawn

  towards that kind of stuff yeah and one

  of these days I will get someone who's

  in charge of VidCon like I will bully

  them into a corner and give them a pen

  and be like draw for me the org chart on

  this napkin like I don't understand how

  all of this happens and I would like to

  see on a piece of paper the logistics

  behind all of this

  I find that stuff very very interesting

  I have got a quick sports book owner

  gray ok well I've picked one that I

  think is relevant to you you always do

  okay alright go ahead

  do you have some story about a person is

  that what you think is is relevant to me

  yeah okay here we go great yeah nailed

  it perfect 10 out of 10 10 attends

  fourth-wall corner

  the topic is golf okay but it's not the

  Masters golf which everyone is gonna be

  hoping I'm talking about which is the

  big tournament that just happened oh is

  that what everyone's gonna be hoping

  you're talking about yeah because I

  watched the Masters and I was like

  tweeting while I was watching everyone

  saying oh you got to talk to gray about

  this but there's nothing to talk to grab

  air about the Masters it was just a good

  golf tournament mm-hmm

  but what I want to talk about is the

  tournament the week before I called the

  aana inspiration which obviously is a

  sponsors name but this is one of the

  four May

  tournaments for women golfers and I want

  to tell you what happened on the final

  day because I want to know what you

  think about this whether you think this

  is a good thing

  and makes you happy and makes you happy

  with the world or you think it's like a

  bit of a travesty

  this woman as you know it well as you

  probably don't know typically a golf

  tournament is played over four days you

  play the 18 holes over four consecutive

  days and whoever has the lowest

  accumulated score is the winner right

  and this woman called Lexi Thompson was

  leading after three days and she was

  playing on the fourth day and she was

  still leading the tournament she was

  streaking away and was going to win the

  tournament it was clear she had this

  comfortable lead and then what happened

  was a TV viewer contacted the network

  and the organisers of the tournament and

  said I was watching some footage from

  the third day and when this woman picked

  up her golf ball from the green and like

  cleaned the grass off it and then put it

  back down where she'd put her marker she

  didn't put it in exactly the right place

  it was like a few millimeters wrong

  there are very strict rules about how

  this works with golf so the people

  organizing the tournament went back and

  watched the previous day's footage and

  yes she had reached this rule which I

  think was so trivial it hardly matters

  but anyway it didn't make a big

  difference but she did technically

  breach this rule the penalty for doing

  that is a two-shot penalty mm-hmm so

  they gave her a two-shot penalty there's

  another penalty in golf that if you sign

  your scorecard at the end of the day and

  the score is incorrect you get a

  two-shot penalty and cuz she designed a

  scorecard that was now incorrect

  although how could she have known

  otherwise she got another two-shot

  penalty so she got this four shot

  penalty they walk out to her on the golf

  course and say because of what you did

  yesterday which some viewers saw which

  we've now gone and found we're docking

  you for shots and she went on to lose

  the tournament in a playoff because of

  this now I know that you're a big fan of

  TV replays and you think it's crazy that

  TV replays aren't used in sport hmm so I

  want to know what you think about this

  happening by the way one of the problems

  is when you're leading the tournament

  you're getting filmed a whole lot more

  often

  so you're much more likely to get caught

  doing this trivial little mistake mm-hmm

  so that's one thing but a thing I want

  to know is no referee saw it no one saw

  it on the day no one associated with the

  tournament Sora

  she was basically you know was a tail

  tattle viewer sitting in their sofa at

  home hold on her you're showing your

  hand there I think we can all

  objectively call this person a

  tattletale yes so I wanna know where

  great a big butt

  great a big butt

  flavor and using of technology and

  replays and things in sport and getting

  a fair outcome feels about the story as

  I just told I will have an asterisk to

  this the statement yeah but in general I

  would say what are sports but a

  collection of rules yep if we're just

  going to say that we're not going to

  follow those rules all the time then

  what are we even doing here right why

  are we all together what is this thing

  that's occurring yep

  so if a viewer spotted a thing that none

  of the referee spotted and it was

  technically something she should not do

  it doesn't matter by how little she did

  the thing that she should not do she did

  a thing that she was not supposed to do

  that was against the rules that

  encourages penalty and then she received

  that penalty I don't see what the

  problem is I think that viewer I think

  we could fairly describe them as a rules

  hero that's what that person is right

  they're calling in doing their civic

  duty right doing a thing that actually

  has an effect in the world enforcing the

  rules and taking someone who would have

  I think again we can objectively say

  stolen a place in the playoff from

  somebody else

  and giving it to the person who actually

  won so I see no problem with this I

  think this is great okay all right I

  mean I also think part of roles need to

  be who has the power to enforce the

  rules and I think you have to draw lines

  like the infringement has to be seen by

  the right person but is that is that

  part of the rules it doesn't sound like

  that was part of the rules I also think

  they need to be Lions drawed like are we

  gonna start going through like footage

  from the 1950s and finding times where

  people broke rules and start like

  reallocating scores and trophies like

  back through the ages I would do that I

  would happily do that I would take a

  gold medal out of a retired Olympians

  hand and give it to the deserved winner

  and I would feel good doing all right

  right I would feel like I was writing an

  injustice in the universe yeah they're

  holding on to it with like their

  decrepit old claw like no this is the

  most meaningful thing I've ever done and

  it's like no you didn't do it somebody

  else did it

  give me that trophy and hand it to the

  actual winner and think about the joy in

  the real winners eyes so I feel like

  that person was a hero at home my little

  asterisk is there's something that

  sounds like the second to stroke penalty

  sounds a bit like I don't understand the

  interpretation of the rules here I

  tiredly that one pisses me off more than

  anything that one I feel like we need to

  go to the rule book on that one I think

  I could be persuaded that that is like

  an overly harsh interpretation of how

  this is supposed to happen

  yeah because presumably that is like

  knowingly signing a wrong card there is

  something about that one that doesn't

  quite sit right with me but if she

  didn't put the ball back down where it

  was supposed to go it's like hey this is

  your job you're supposed to put the ball

  back down in that spot and I don't even

  have a problem with the fact that

  they're being filmed more like I

  obviously everyone should be filmed all

  the time but if the leader is being

  filmed more than someone in the behind

  areas it's like well this is just like

  the robber in Settlers of Catan right

  it's like a Hubble the leader effect and

  this is just what happens in this sport

  okay I'm okay with all of this all right

  I'm glad I brought it up I'm glad you've

  cast a different light on the argument I

  mean do you disagree though do you think

  the tattle tale at home shouldn't have

  called in they should have just kept it

  - well I'm not saying they shouldn't

  have called it you can't stop people

  call again if they feel guilty for the

  rest of their lives for not writing this

  injustice but I do think is a wrong

  decision I don't think like the

  arbitrariness of people at home who

  calls in and who doesn't the decisions

  have to be made by the decision makers

  and I don't think people at home should

  be acting as chair referees I don't

  think it's right I'm also fine with

  having a rule that says at the end of

  the day whatever happened becomes the

  unchangeable score like you can make

  that part of the sport and just have

  that be set down like hey listen we're

  not going to adjudicate this overtime so

  that in 50 years CGP grey can come along

  and steal gold medals away from our

  winners and give them to other people

  right you can make that part of the

  process but it sounds like this wasn't

  part of the process for the Masters I

  mean I agree with like you know drug

  cheats and things like that

  losing medals ripped respectively but I

  do think this was wrong and that extra

  two shots for signing the incorrect

  scorecard which even you seem to grasp

  as being a bit weird did cost her the

  tournament she would have won if it

  wasn't for that even though anyway see I

  thought I

  one that was half interesting to you

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  likes for us to recommend a book and

  I've been making a really concerted

  effort to try to read more and not just

  read more but also read differently so I

  recently read a book that was a little

  bit out of the normal kind of thing that

  I would pick up but that I can highly

  recommend and it's tribe by Sebastian

  Junger he's the same guy who wrote a

  perfect storm if you ever read that it's

  a little bit of a difficult book to

  describe but I can briefly say that it

  is a little bit about people in war

  particularly men in war and how that

  affects them it talks about some of the

  difficult things like why is it that

  some soldiers really find solace in

  being in a group in war and why they can

  have difficulty reintegrating into

  society afterwards that makes the book

  sound like it's a huge downer but I

  actually found it a fascinating non

  downer read and it's also very short

  which is the thing that I really

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  Internet that's a UD IB le com slash

  hello Internet

  alright so the next thing we're going to

  try to talk about is the news coverage

  that has surrounded YouTube advertising

  and a subsequent boycott and all this

  lot of stuff now gray and I have tried

  to discuss this a couple of times before

  one of them made it to the show but

  we've also tried other times and we've

  gotten a bit hot and bothered talking

  about it because it always tends to veer

  into a discussion about our conflicting

  views on journalism and news coverage

  and we've just thought that didn't go to

  plan

  and we've cut it from the show but we're

  going to try again and we've also just

  had a few conversations in person which

  we were any good recording but like we

  get caught in the vortex yeah of this

  topic so if this conversation seems a

  little strange listeners if it's made it

  into the show just keep that in mind

  this is like the fifth time

  Brady and I are actually going to talk

  about Fitz so go so I've tried something

  a bit different because I can never make

  my points and I sort of I get confused

  and heated and then we start putting

  each other off and going down rabbit

  holes so I've done is I've written like

  a statement or like an open letter I

  think that's it I cannot believe that

  you have done this I find this hilarious

  but I also feel like if I had known that

  you were really gonna write like an

  opening statement I should have written

  opening statement too right and now

  suddenly we're in court and I feel like

  I'm at a terrible disadvantage because

  you were coming to the table with a

  prepared statement and I feel like I'm

  walking up to the bench like no your

  honor I'm just defending myself

  I have no preparations I've got no

  papers with me and you're over there

  with a team of lawyers right and you're

  already you're like no we're gonna fight

  this so yeah well if it's any

  consolation great it's not like a

  crafted document I did just

  hunt-and-peck this an hour before the

  show okay so it's a little bit rough

  around the edges you would like to enter

  a statement into the record yeah and the

  reason is not because I want to have

  another like argument about the media

  but when we start talking about what

  we're going to talk about which is you

  know YouTube advertising and media

  coverage around ER I have criticisms to

  make of them of the media like yeah okay

  but I don't want to have to keep like

  adding little addendums or little

  qualifications and professing I want

  people to know where I stand about

  journalism and how it's different to you

  because I think most people know where

  you stand I mean most Rauh know where I

  stand - but you're setting up that

  framing because also you don't want me

  to respond to your

  opening statement right you just want to

  read it and then you wanna move right

  along I just keep my mouth shut I'm

  worried if you're too clever in your

  response we're just gonna have the same

  old arguments but anyway I'll read this

  and then you say whatever you are and

  then we'll talk about what we're going

  to talk about it's a little bit long

  sorry

  go right ahead sir enter your statement

  into the record here we go Laura's yours

  dear CGP grey haha no I didn't write

  that okay alright I was like you can't

  expect me not to say something if you're

  opening it with great addressing it to

  me okay I didn't say that they just kind

  of addressed to you but it's sort of

  neutral okay I want to say a few things

  about news and journalism before we get

  lost in the weeds this is because as you

  know I get a little frustrated by some

  attitudes to news reporting I'll preface

  all this by saying I'm aware we probably

  agree on more things than we disagree on

  and not everything I'm about to say

  necessarily reflects your views it's

  more general than that so please don't

  think I'm putting words in your mouth

  I'll also try not to use the word media

  too often because that's so nebulous

  that it seems to confuse matters I'll

  opt instead for journalism and reporting

  but let me start by making mention of my

  nephew he's 19 years old he's a good lad

  but he has never read a book not one he

  claims he thinks they're boring and

  reckons he can get everything he needs

  from other sources mainly YouTube and

  snapchat it seems I can understand this

  why would anyone do anything they find

  boring I guess I could argue that

  exercise is boring eating healthy

  vegetables is boring that we do some

  things for our own well-being that

  reading a book could be the intellectual

  equivalent of a session at the gym but

  as I'm someone who doesn't eat very

  healthily or exercise enough that might

  be a bit rich and it does sound kind of

  lame anyway so why do I even mention my

  nephews refusal to read books because

  the emotion it incites in me is so

  similar to the emotion I feel about

  people who willfully ignore the news

  while their reasons and motives are

  different I think this kind of willful

  ignorance and an accompanying

  broad-brush generalization that so often

  goes with it really frustrates me

  so let's deal with the reasons I think

  we should pay at least some attention to

  news to journalism to reporting on

  events that are happening in our

  communities and the wider world

  the first reason I think is just being a

  good caring empathetic citizen most of

  us live on a road or community with a

  few dozen people a city or a town with

  hundreds of thousands of other people a

  planet with seven billion other people

  now you may not be directly affected by

  their hardships their struggles the

  events in their lives but I think it is

  part of the human experience to know

  about and share some of this yes it can

  be overwhelming and we can't possibly

  take it all in but slamming the door on

  their plots because we don't care or it

  makes us feel bad while we're eating our

  evening dinner is a sad state of affairs

  I really think this is the most

  important reason of all to have some

  awareness of news because there are

  fellow men and women and we should care

  about them we should care about what

  they care about

  I think it's selfish and it's not the

  kind of person I want to be to only care

  about things that directly affect me by

  the way and I guess this applies to

  people who are a bit more social but I

  also think it's just good practice to

  know about the two or three biggest

  things that are going on at a given time

  just for like social reasons just to

  show you're a person who's aware of the

  bigger picture in your town or your

  country or on the planet just so you're

  not the guy or the girl the watercooler

  who doesn't know that London Bridge is

  falling down but another more important

  reason I think we need to pay attention

  to journalism is because a well informed

  citizenry is pretty important to the way

  people in power can exploit us knowing

  what governments are doing what

  political leaders are doing what courts

  are doing what the police are doing what

  big business is doing the Fourth Estate

  our reporters play a key role in this

  accountability public opinion is very

  important to people in power whether

  it's polls elections or consumer habits

  and I think it's important that public

  opinion is based on factual information

  not misinformation or no information

  where that factual information will come

  from if not from journalists is

  something I don't know it certainly

  won't come from the governments and

  businesses themselves

  and I can't see anything in the world of

  social media taking the place of

  old-fashioned journalism if anything

  much of what I see happening on social

  media seems to be a step in the wrong

  direction now clearly this is where

  someone listening might be thinking well

  journalists hardly do a good job

  providing useful or factual information

  and yes I was once a traditional

  newspaper and TV journalists and have

  some skin in this game but I think this

  blanket dismissal of journalists and

  large media organizations is silly just

  as silly as my nephew arguing that all

  books are boring or saying that all

  YouTube videos are frivolous or all

  politicians are corrupt etc etc yes

  there are bad journalists and bad media

  organizations citing the examples of

  certain rolling news channels or some of

  Britain's scummiest tabloid newspapers

  are easy pickings but there are also a

  lot of good journalists a lot of good

  newspapers good news websites good TV

  news programs yes even the good ones

  have their faults and they should be

  held to account for their misdeeds but

  this dismissal of journalism because of

  those easy targets is well lazy now I'm

  not saying that we all have the same

  appetite for news that we should all sit

  around and consume news for hours each

  day I'd even argue that my own news

  appetite is quite low much of the time I

  really only skim a newspaper for 5 to 10

  minutes over my breakfast and maybe dip

  into a website in a quiet moment just to

  see what the few top stories are I'm

  also not recommending what sources of

  news and individuals should use everyone

  has their own preferences trusted

  sources and stylistic preferences but I

  think a willful decision to avoid news

  is unhealthy

  it's a fast-tracked uninformed citizens

  who care about no one but themselves and

  see the world only through the prism of

  the Select people they've decided to

  follow on Twitter and Facebook or which

  subreddit silos they've decided suit

  them best it results in public opinions

  and beliefs maybe even elections being

  decided by people who are ignorant

  now journalists are easy punching bags

  like politicians I guess and they do not

  deserve a free pass there are some very

  good ones some very bad ones and lots of

  just average ones they're also employed

  by organizations with conflicted in

  interests barrows to push this can color

  their coverage from time to time and we

  need to see this I've certainly picked

  on journalists plenty of times here in

  hello Internet there are frequent source

  of my paper cuts but I think the role of

  the Fourth Estate is important ignoring

  them to the point of extinction is a sad

  situation and I don't know what the

  world will look like without a free

  media my last point is this and I can

  never expect someone like you gray to

  change your mind and suddenly become

  someone who consumes news anymore than I

  can expect my nephew to suddenly start

  reading books or me to start eating

  salads but influential people dismissing

  the merits of the press even indirectly

  by being a little too proud of an

  information light diet worries me we now

  live in a world where numerous people in

  positions of power have made it their

  modus operandi to discredit and

  undermine trust in the media because

  this suits their own agendas it's

  reached almost farcical proportions the

  way some people assume every utterance

  on TV or every word in the newspaper is

  a lie journalism is certainly at a

  crossroads and it's a messy problem

  involving changing technology shifts and

  advertising and a strange political

  climate at the moment I don't think it's

  necessarily our job to advocate

  subsidized or save journalism it has

  evolved as a business and maybe that's

  how it would die but I do feel like

  there's a little more to the role of

  journalists than just filling the gaps

  between advertising and as my buddy here

  on the podcast is known for being a

  little disparaging towards the media I

  wanted to have my say too to say that I

  think it's a good thing anyway now I've

  said all this I would like to get on

  with the show and give a kicking to The

  Times of London your opening statement

  has been entered into the record reading

  obviously there are many points that I

  would choose to disagree with of course

  but I was intentionally keeping my hands

  out the keyboard and not making a

  point-by-point analysis or noting the

  points where I feel like you're

  conflating two different issues I will

  ask you one question which you might not

  want to answer okay but I'm sort of

  curious about with regards to that

  statement let's say a listener to the

  podcast had at some point followed my

  advice

  and had stopped following the news and

  was moved by your opening statements to

  come back into the world of news hmm

  where do you think they should start

  with that because I do find it

  interesting that you don't want to

  mention any particular source and I can

  understand very many reasons why you

  might not want to do that yeah but I

  feel like that comes to a particular

  feeling that I have sometimes of where

  do you think they should go if they are

  moved by your statement yeah I mean the

  reason that I would answer that is

  because I don't want to get into that

  kind of mix in a way I think it's

  different for everyone I would say there

  are certain newspapers I guess that some

  people refer to as papers of record

  which of newspapers which supposedly are

  a little bit less politically biased

  which are hard to find in the UK but you

  know that they're around so I would say

  maybe you know newspapers are websites

  that have less of a political agenda I

  guess is one thing I could maybe suggest

  but I think there are lots of options I

  don't want to start recommending it

  because I think this is what we do we'll

  get lost in the weeds and we can find

  examples of where people have much

  things up and I think people need to

  find their own way and their own sources

  I'm genuinely I am not trying to trick

  you here I know you know I'm not trying

  to get you to name a name and then up

  and then I'll point to a story that I

  thought was terrible that they did yeah

  what I'm trying to get at here is that I

  think this is a vastly more difficult

  task than it sounds when you say

  something like oh people should read a

  newspaper of record because for someone

  like me like that doesn't necessarily

  mean anything like I don't know which

  papers you you mean by that

  and again I understand why you don't

  want to recommend something in

  particular I'm imagining someone who may

  have taken my advice in the past to

  disengage from the news cycle who was

  looking for a reentry point and I just

  wanted to know if you had a particular

  place that you would recommend that they

  start I have an answer for than if you

  don't want to give one I'm just curious

  as to your feelings on that

  I feel like I don't want to have that

  discussion today on it which is a nice

  bit of a cop-out I feel like you know

  you gave me a lot latitude you let me

  have my say and you didn't slap down

  things you disagree with and for me to

  now like go further and start going into

  the weeds that I was trying to avoid

  would be a bad idea but I do think you

  should tell people what your advice is

  no people are gonna know right I'm gonna

  recommend they read The Economist right

  because when we had a now long ago

  deleted conversation the news yeah I

  don't really follow the news but we do

  have a subscription to The Economist in

  my house and as I've mentioned before my

  wife reads The Economist and she often

  recommends articles to me out of it yeah

  and I did on a couple of Sundays just

  make an effort to say like oh I'm gonna

  just read The Economist again just a

  little bit more than I normally would

  just picking it up and going through and

  and it can just reconfirm to me that

  like as a person who does not have

  interest in following the news who would

  argue that on an individual basis it

  might not be the best thing for a person

  to do I do think that the Economist is a

  pretty great job of reporting on stuff

  in a way that is accessible for someone

  who doesn't necessarily have background

  information I think I've mentioned

  previous on the podcast but one thing I

  do love is their style guide is to

  always write articles assuming that a

  person has essentially no background so

  they always explain what everything is

  you never feel like you're lost and I

  feel like they do a pretty good job of

  hitting things down the middle and in my

  own research anyway I have yet to come

  across any major howlers in the

  Economist in the way they report things

  unlike just about every other place I've

  ever gone where it's like oh this really

  interesting story when you dig into it

  turns out to be entirely misrepresented

  so if people are looking for a place to

  enter the news I would recommend the

  economists use offer code gray for no

  discount at all because this isn't an ad

  but you know telling gray sent you so

  let's talk about the actual issue at

  hand yeah so what we want to talk about

  is this ongoing brouhaha that is related

  to the news and is related to youtube

  and advertising which was I think

  started by the very article that you

  first brought up on the podcast a couple

  episodes ago which I foreshadowed is

  becoming a big deal yeah

  which is in the times was it yeah the

  Times of London Times of London yeah no

  I do just want to enter it on the record

  that I had not read that article when we

  were discussing it on the podcast it was

  a bit of a surprise to me so I hadn't

  gone through it and I think that

  slightly coloured the conversation that

  we had because I would have been vastly

  more angry had I actually read it

  because I think that article is a

  perfect example of how news stories I

  think sometimes intentionally

  misrepresent situations but anyway

  putting that aside so we don't get

  sucked into the weeds hmm

  The Times did an article describing how

  on YouTube there are advertisements that

  are shown against extremist content and

  this has since snowballed into what I

  think we can fairly described as a very

  big problem

  for YouTube there have been advertisers

  big brand advertisers that have pulled

  out from advertising on YouTube lots of

  people can see it in the data event ad

  rates on YouTube have gone down this is

  actually something that I can see

  directly in my own channel and on my own

  video the most recent one that I put up

  is at about 20 percent of the rate that

  I would expect it to be under normal

  circumstances some entire channels have

  been demonetised or very close to being

  demonetised for having advertiser

  unfriendly content this has turned into

  a very big brouhaha that YouTube seems

  to be having a hard time getting out

  from under and the newspapers seem to

  keep liking to report on that sort of

  this the state of the situation right

  now would you say yes I think that's a

  pretty fair summary okay I guess my more

  emotional reaction to this and my

  feeling about it is I am infuriated with

  this whole topic because I view this as

  a self-serving storm that the

  traditional news industry is cooking up

  that works tremendously in their favor

  and that is essentially a total non

  problem on YouTube

  but that they can use to constantly hit

  and berate YouTube over like the

  question of the massive amount of

  content that is uploaded to YouTube

  there is always going to be something

  that someone is able to point to as

  objectionable that YouTube will not be

  able to remove immediately I view this

  as a kind of problem that is just

  intrinsic to the medium and is never

  going to go away but the scale of the

  problem is never reported in these

  stories so all of the examples I ever

  see are examples on videos with very low

  view numbers on channels that are

  essentially not watched and these are

  brought up as examples of oh look how

  big companies like Pepsi are funding

  terrorism through YouTube and there's

  never any context of scale given to this

  that's my frustration is when I when I

  see these things it seems very much like

  these stories are not intended to be

  vehicles to well inform the public of

  how the YouTube advertising system works

  and how this process is happening and

  how an advertisement might end up in

  front of a video that it doesn't want to

  be in front of there's no elucidation of

  this it's just entirely presented as

  like YouTube is facilitating the funding

  of terrorism with big brand money and I

  find that incredibly frustrating it is

  frankly causing needless economic harm

  irresponsibly I do you want me to start

  with the parts where I disagree with you

  or the parts where I agree with you

  you start wherever you want man well

  let's get the disagreements out of the

  way I guess mmm first of all let's admit

  we have a big conflict of interest here

  you just said yourself you know we're

  very affected by this so we need to bear

  that in mind you know this is hitting us

  in the hip pocket and obviously the

  conflict of interest for the newspapers

  starting with The Times which is owned

  by Rupert Murdoch and you know it's been

  picked up by lots of other papers now

  who I think have seen the opportunity

  this conflict is massive mm-hmm and I'm

  finding it rather tiresome they flogged

  the dead whore

  way too hard to the point where I'm

  thinking come on enough enough and also

  I don't know you probably don't realize

  this but in recent days it's now

  switched to Facebook they've said gosh

  that worked better than we thought and

  now they're targeting Facebook and

  they're looking for examples of you know

  pedophiles on Facebook and all this

  other stuff so that's really funny I

  feel like shock surprise there because

  it's like Google and Facebook or

  something like 80 percent of all the

  advertising money spent on the Internet

  are spent on those two websites yeah I

  was like oh you turned your attention to

  Facebook yeah color me shocked nice oh

  I'm a little jaded and cynical about it

  hmm

  and I'm also rather jaded and cynical by

  how they keep referring to these

  investigations they're doing I don't I

  don't think they have done like an

  undercover investigation

  they probably used Google ironically but

  they've just basically searched for

  extremist content I mean anyone can do

  this like this is not an investigation

  they've just like done something that

  any five-year-old could do in ten

  minutes yes so like digging themselves

  up as these like people who have

  uncovered some mystery frustrates me

  somewhat and the reporting of it because

  it's an area I know quite well and you

  know quite well some of the reporting of

  it has been not as thorough accurate as

  it could have been so I'm quite upset by

  the generous description but I think

  some of the things you're arguing about

  and some of the things that are

  upsetting you not the point and I think

  you're kind of getting lost in the

  minutiae of the details and ignoring the

  problem that does exist if I can go off

  on a tangent for a second this is what

  you remind me of at the moment there's

  an episode of the TV show The Office the

  British office in which there's a pub

  quiz that goes to a tiebreaker mm-hmm

  the two guys have to stand on stage

  opposite each other and they have to say

  the answer first whichever one of you

  says the answer first wins yeah and it

  says a quote from Shakespeare and one

  guy says that and gets it wrong but then

  he just keeps naming play after play

  after play trying to get it right and he

  he keeps getting it wrong and eventually

  the other guy says the right answer and

  he wins and then for the next couple of

  minutes the guy who was saying answer

  after answer and got told off for saying

  too many plays gets into this big

  argument with the quizmaster about you

  never said I could only say one so

  that's why I was saying lots and lots so

  I didn't break the rules no rules were

  broken you know you never said that and

  he's ignoring the fact he never even

  said the right answer mm-hmm and it's oh

  it doesn't matter anyway and he's so

  busy arguing over the minutiae of the

  rules Rose ignoring the fact he didn't

  know the answer then he lost the quiz

  anyway hmm and I feel a bit like you're

  that guy you're so busy worrying about

  the fact that they gave the wrong number

  for the amount of money or they didn't

  explain very clearly how the advertising

  algorithm works and that you're kind of

  ignoring the fact that money that once

  belongs to a company is ending up in the

  pocket of people who've uploaded

  inappropriate content to YouTube that's

  the problem and how it happened and

  whether it flowed through an auction

  system or whether Joe Bloggs knew that

  the money was going to end up here or

  not and whose fault was it and whether

  it was a bot or a human mm-hmm that

  isn't really the argument here the

  argument is there was money that once

  belongs to Pepsi to use your example and

  now that's in the pocket of someone who

  puts something deeply wrong on the

  internet and they've been rewarded for

  it with money that once belonged to

  Pepsi and that's what's upsetting Pepsi

  yeah oh yeah so I saw you uploaded your

  video about how YouTube auctions works I

  mean it could be a coincidence but I

  feel like you must have been motivated

  or sped up by this recent controversy

  you felt like this was something that

  needed to be explained more clearly oh

  yeah that was a video uploaded in anger

  yeah and you did a good job of

  explaining how the system works you know

  well done it was a really nice video but

  I think it's completely irrelevant to

  this 2-bay and it changes nothing

  well yeah I didn't really want to talk

  about this debate I wanted to talk about

  a thing that I think is important which

  is the understanding that humans are not

  assigning these ads and I also just want

  to just agree emphasized there's an

  enormous amount of content but no I made

  that video because I've as with all my

  videos I feel like I want this to last

  beyond this particular debate right

  which will go away eventually of course

  but I think it's completely irrelevant

  that like humans don't do it YouTube are

  the enablers googler the enablers well

  they've done it with an algorithm or 400

  people in a call center in chow

  however they've done it they've created

  the system that advertisers put money

  into the big black box no but doesn't

  matter what happens in the black box and

  then the money ends up in people's

  pockets whether it's your pocket my

  pocket or some crazy person who's

  uploading hate speech and how to make

  bombs and stuff right this is the

  problem and like if the extent of the

  problems being exaggerated that is an

  issue don't get me wrong but I do think

  a problem exists I've always thought

  it's a problem just like I think it's a

  problem that freebooters get money you

  know do you remember

  I've said this a couple of times I've

  even said it on the podcast that I think

  the best way to get freebooting dealt

  with would be to get in the advertisers

  ears and say to them did you know that

  your advertising on stolen content

  mm-hmm this is exactly what's happened

  the times have gotten in the ears via

  the power of their newspaper and their

  influence have gotten in the ears of the

  advertisers and said do you know that

  your money says some of your money's

  ending up here now they've done it with

  what I think somewhat disingenuous

  motive mm-hmm but that's exactly what's

  happened and YouTube have been caught

  doing the wrong thing yes like then yeah

  but had to act

  they've been penalized for I know it's

  been skewed you can go ahead and explain

  how it's been skewed but I think they

  have done the wrong thing they have to

  act and they are acting yeah but yeah

  like I have to fundamentally disagree

  with your description thereof YouTube

  has done the wrong thing right I don't

  think that is a fair description of what

  is occurring because what you're asking

  for is a perfect system that has to deal

  with essentially an infinite amount of

  content yeah but you're giving them a

  leave pass for that reason you're saying

  because it's hard and because it's big

  we've done enough I don't think they

  have done enough this is our fundamental

  disagreement because I do think and the

  reason why the way all of the new

  stories have reported on YouTube

  frustrates me is because I think that

  you have to report on the Internet as a

  different thing like this is not a TV

  schedule this is not advertising against

  known content this is algorithmically

  matching your advertisement

  - what algorithms think the content is

  yeah that's what advertising on the

  Internet is and I think if you ignore

  that if you want to ignore the

  fundamental way that the internet works

  and then hold the company Google

  responsible as though they're putting

  ads on an episode of Seinfeld where you

  know what it is hold them to the same

  standard of like oh we didn't air

  Seinfeld that evening we actually aired

  a terrorist recruiting video and we just

  left all the ads in and hold them to

  that kind of standard like I don't think

  that that's a fair assessment that's why

  I think it is an important part of this

  story how does the internet work but all

  of the newspapers are reporting upon

  Google and a presumably now Facebook yet

  I'm no friend of Facebook but you can't

  report on them like they're just a

  bigger newspaper it's a fundamentally

  different kind of thing and I think what

  makes the internet different is what

  really matters in this story and to

  ignore that is irresponsible this is

  where we fundamentally disagree but this

  is kind of where I think you're the guy

  debating after the pub quiz all that

  matters is that Pepsi saw their

  advertisement that they paid for next to

  Bob the bombers video and like that's

  happened yep and YouTube took the money

  they took the money and when they took

  the money they knew they weren't

  supposed to put it next to Bob the

  bomber they knew that even the way

  you're describing it though like is

  implying a kind of intent like oh well

  hahaha we're taking Pepsi's money and

  we're gonna put it against this

  terrorist video okay let's not call it

  intent let's call it negligence

  negligence is also not a word that I can

  agree with and right I was just winding

  you up but you're doing what I think

  exactly the newspapers are doing right

  they'll write a word like negligent all

  right and then you're implying a certain

  kind of thing I get super interesting

  because I wanted to check that right

  after this had happened I actually

  bought a bunch of ads from my own

  YouTube channel on YouTube because I

  just wanted to quickly see how the

  system was like after we had that first

  conversation yeah

  just as I had remembered when I tried

  this years and years ago as with other

  stuff like

  the amount of options and preferences

  they give you to try to target your ad

  to exactly who you want and the number

  of check boxes that you can tick for all

  the kinds of things that you want to try

  to have your ad not be shown against

  it's enormous

  like I've always like they have an

  incentive kind of stuff is that oh they

  have all of this like inappropriate

  content but they also have things like

  gambling like they have a bunch of

  related kinds of things that you might

  not want your ads to run against this

  writer they have like mild violence they

  have a whole bunch of categories that

  you can specify you don't want your ads

  to run against and there's no reason

  that they'd be like negligent where it's

  like ah ha ha we'll just have them take

  a bunch of these boxes and we won't do

  anything on the other end like it is in

  YouTube's direct financial interest to

  put the ads where the advertiser wants

  them to go it's not a kind of negligence

  to an extent

  that's not completely true it's in their

  interest to do it as long as it doesn't

  cost them too much to do that it's in

  their interest to do it because YouTube

  charges when a user clicks on an ad

  right so they are in the business of

  matching ads to interested viewers yeah

  they're not selling billboards on the

  highway here at a price that at a price

  to them they're in the business of doing

  that at a price to them that isn't too

  great that I can't employ 400 million

  people to do it right they employ no one

  to do it they avoid a computer to do it

  there's not a huge cost on the other end

  it's not a big army of people where

  they're like oh if we get these people

  to slack off a bit right this is

  Google's whole thing is this kind of AI

  and categorization right this is their

  whole deepmind project like this is

  everything they do is making this stuff

  good yeah and so that's why I think if

  you ignore this that is a kind of

  negligence if you just ignore how this

  system is different how YouTube is in

  the business of categorizing decade's

  worth of content every day and you find

  the couple of videos that no one has

  watched and you keep refreshing and

  refreshing them until you find an ad

  from a big company that you know you can

  bully because I think the other side of

  this is I don't disagree with any of

  these big companies from pulling out

  because I think

  newspapers and the news are able to

  bully these big companies into negative

  PR campaigns to move their money

  elsewhere that's definitely true I

  definitely agree with that but the news

  is causing the very problem that they're

  threatening will happen right like boy

  won't it be terrible news for you if we

  keep writing stories that associate your

  brand name with horrible thing in the

  title which is exactly what we want to

  do so to me this is like a mafia

  shakedown that they're doing here it's

  like we'll always be able to find of the

  decades worth of stuff every day we'll

  be able to find something that has been

  miscategorized and we'll always be able

  to hold that over your head so it'd be a

  real shame if we keep having to tarnish

  your brand all the time it'd be a real

  shame if we caused a constant problem

  for our main competitor for advertising

  dollars so this is why I find it

  frustrating is I think this is

  intentionally misrepresented what this

  thing is the Internet is just not a

  newspaper it's not a television schedule

  it's a different kind of advertising and

  I feel like pretty much everybody knows

  this but nonetheless traditional media

  can bully companies into pulling their

  dollars off of it like I would even

  believe that people on the board of

  Pepsi or whatever know what this whole

  situation is but they're just pulling

  their dollars because they feel like we

  can't don't please don't put us at the

  center of the story like we're just

  taking our money out leave us alone for

  a while I would believe that that's

  happening that even the people in charge

  of the advertising of the big companies

  understand the situation fully but just

  feel like okay we can't be involved in

  this like we're forced to make a move

  here because of this story that has been

  generated I agree with what you just

  said I am Not sure that the problems

  quite as tiny as you say like you're

  making it sound like these are like five

  videos with eight views and they've made

  like point zero one of a penny mm-hmm I

  don't know in some of the examples I've

  read about have been you know hundreds

  and hundreds of thousands of views it

  would be interesting to know the money

  involved and whether or not YouTube are

  willing to disclose that I mean

  obviously they're not willing to

  disclose that

  because the numbers would probably would

  be quite big even though you would call

  them small yeah like they could easily

  say uh yet we've looked at it and we've

  done an order and we've paid out you

  know $33 hmm over the last year two

  extreme content but obviously the number

  isn't $33 it's obviously numbers that

  are big enough that people are going to

  get spooked I don't know if they're

  numbers that are big enough that people

  are going to get spooked because the

  other thing that I've seen in the

  articles like I've seen people passing

  around that I find really frustrating is

  again this is a kind of thing that I see

  often in the news but this is an example

  of it where it's like you start talking

  about a really terrible thing but you

  transition into something else and so

  I've seen articles where they start out

  by talking about like oh here's a

  horrible beheading video that's Walmart

  ran an ad against or whatever yeah and

  then they transition to videos that have

  let's say unpopular political speech

  that have hundreds of thousands of views

  in them and then they suddenly they

  start talking about popular channels

  that might say unpopular things and it's

  like whoa whoa you've done like a

  switcheroo here because you're kind of

  implying that this horrible thing is

  getting the numbers of this other thing

  that you're talking about yeah and if I

  didn't follow this world as closely as I

  do

  I would not be aware of what has just

  occurred like if I'm just reading an

  article suddenly I think there are

  channels on YouTube that show terrorist

  recruiting videos that have millions of

  subscribers and hundreds of thousands of

  views and it's like those things don't

  exist yeah those are not on YouTube and

  so that is just another thing that I

  find really frustrating where it's like

  you news article or news story are like

  you're no fool you're deliberately doing

  this thing of like talk about the

  horrible thing and then switch to the

  maybe controversial thing but act as

  though they're the same like it's a kind

  of false equivalence I think some of

  them are folks by the way they I think

  in some cases they don't even quite get

  it themselves

  then I think it was as clever as you

  think well there we go score one for the

  journalists then are they malevolent or

  just fools I think that's exactly what

  you said braiding hair and I'm gonna put

  that on up no no I think you're right I

  said in my statement in my now famous

  statement I didn't say that you know

  they're a bad journalist out there and

  they need to be called out and I think

  some of this reporting you know it's

  perfectly fair to call that and you know

  you make you make some good points about

  it but I do think big organizations and

  companies don't act to improve things

  until they're called out sometimes and

  you know YouTube have now announced some

  you know new system and stuff and I saw

  a few people tweeting saying okay that

  looks like an interesting thing they're

  going to do to get around the problem

  well let's talk about this

  how have YouTube responded well the main

  thing that I've seen which I thought I

  believe I said on Twitter it's a

  brilliant response yeah is YouTube has

  decided that unless your YouTube channel

  has 10,000 lifetime views across all the

  videos yeah you will not be able to

  monetize the channel Yeah right now

  10,000 views is no money it's like a

  dollar especially after the ad boy yeah

  it's essentially nothing yeah so this

  hurts

  no creators right nobody with less than

  10,000 views is making a living on

  YouTube and I thought this was a

  fantastic response because I viewed it

  essentially as YouTube had to be seen

  doing something and here's them able to

  say like okay look we're gonna do this

  because we know that the videos people

  are pointing to have essentially no

  views right that they're getting flagged

  and they're getting pulled out of the

  system really fast and so since the view

  numbers on those things are so small

  anyway we can set a comically low

  threshold before videos can be monetized

  I think YouTube's response shows exactly

  what the level of the problem really is

  it's like okay fine we have to be seen

  to be doing something so we're going to

  implement a quote solution to fix this

  trivial problem I think it was a good PR

  move on YouTube's side like I think that

  was a good decision to do but what I

  don't think is happening is behind the

  scenes is YouTube is going how jeez guys

  never trying to find bad content before

  we were just taking all the Pepsi's

  money and running it on these these

  horrible ads like shucks we better stop

  doing that I think again with YouTube in

  particular they already had a hell of an

  incentive to do this so I really don't

  think that there's something going on at

  YouTube where they're trying to like

  improve their categorization algorithm

  more than they already were doing but if

  they had already had this system in

  place this 10,000 view system mm-hmm

  wouldn't it have been the case that

  there would have been no beheading

  videos with Walmart ads next to them in

  the first place and they wouldn't have

  had this ammunition okay yeah right yes

  I would agree with that but what I'm

  saying is I think the amount of money

  here is so trivial that it is nothing

  right so what you're asking is is the

  difference between a literal 0 problem

  and a essentially near zero problem I

  don't think that that difference is a

  significant difference well it must feel

  significant when lot your stock price

  goes down by a billion dollars but this

  is my whole point

  it feels significant because the news

  has made a thing out of nothing to their

  own advantage should YouTube have seen

  it coming I don't know if YouTube should

  have seen it coming because I feel like

  you can't possibly see how your enemies

  are always going to attack you in the

  future but this seems like a really

  obvious attack to me I even suggested it

  in the context of freebooting shame

  advertisers by showing them what their

  content is being shown against like it

  seems like an obvious tactic if you'd

  sat me down and said Brady we need to

  stop ad people advertising on YouTube

  give us some ideas I think I would have

  come up with that in the first hour or

  two okay right yeah you're coming up

  with ways to attack YouTube yeah you're

  not selling me on like what an amazing

  piece of investigative journalism

  they're doing here right no no but what

  I'm saying in the context of should

  YouTube have been prepared for it and

  said we need to make sure that like

  we're not open to this attack because

  it's such an easy attack you know I'm

  not saying it's not trivial I'm saying

  it's easy to do I guess I sort of see

  what you're saying here but I feel like

  you're giving in to my whole premise

  then that this

  whole story is like a made-up nonsense

  story right like it isn't that surely

  the infuriating part and it's like a

  gigantic company is never going to be

  able to protect itself from generated

  fury you can never possibly foresee all

  of the ways that your enemies are going

  to attack you especially if they're able

  to spin up non problems into gigantic

  problems yeah okay so I'm saying is this

  does seem like an obvious one to me and

  if you think the ten thousand solution

  has an impact I'm surprised they didn't

  do it before yeah but again I don't see

  you're asking youtube to be able to

  anticipate all of the problems yeah I am

  actually I think a big smart business

  does sit around and anticipate all their

  problems and how they're going to get

  attacked and how to protect themselves

  against it don't they but presumably you

  would be concerned about your actual big

  problems first and you wouldn't

  necessarily be sitting around and

  thinking what are all of our tiniest

  problems I don't think this is a tiny

  problem for them

  I think it's been shown to not be a tiny

  problem for them again this is where

  language is a thing though yes this is

  now a real problem for YouTube that has

  been spun out of bullshit that's my

  feeling on this is like you can't

  foresee all of the both problems that

  someone is going to attack you with yeah

  but I think this one could have been for

  saying is what I'm saying I would have

  foreseen it well that's because you

  think like a yellow journalist okay

  because you know how the minds of

  journalists work and how they're going

  to attack their enemies

  so I guess YouTube should hire you as a

  consultant very good just sitting around

  thinking of all the ways you could

  attack them yeah I don't know great I

  don't know what to say because I don't

  know some of the stuff you're saying I

  don't know if you're right you're saying

  to me that the people making

  inappropriate content and making very

  very little money

  like nothing money you're saying that to

  me I don't know if that's true or not so

  I don't know whether to disagree with

  you yeah if that's true there's nothing

  really you're saying that's particularly

  wrong yeah just to be clear one of the

  bigger problems that is happening is

  this question of like what is advertiser

  appropriate on YouTube

  this gets very quickly into a realm

  where it's very hard to know what is

  happening but like I do sort of know

  through unofficial channels that YouTube

  does have behind the scenes like bins

  that they put different channels into of

  saying like oh this is perfectly okay

  content like this is unknown content

  yeah and there's a very different

  question about categorizing channels and

  what happens to channels that are

  considered more or less advertiser

  friendly again I think that that is like

  a related problem but a much more

  difficult to talk about problem because

  you just don't know but one of the

  things that I do start getting very

  uncomfortable about is what you're

  touching on here is like the boundaries

  of what do we consider okay and not okay

  content right and there's there's always

  like a huge gray area there on one end

  we have like the absolute stuff that

  everybody agrees is totally horrible but

  then as you start getting towards the

  end of the spectrum which is where I

  think the conflation starts beginning is

  like politically unpopular speech which

  starts becoming like a grey zone and you

  like well is this okay is this not okay

  like then that becomes much harder and

  to be clear I am 100% on the side like

  if advertisers don't want to advertise

  on politically unpopular videos like

  that's totally their prerogative it's

  their money to spend

  it's 100% their choice advertisers

  should be able to say like don't put our

  videos on anything that seems remotely

  political but then that starts getting

  into much more complicated questions

  about like what kind of content is

  YouTube implicitly through the way their

  system works promoting or not promoting

  the creation of this starts becoming a

  real mess like there are definitely

  channels on YouTube that get lots of

  views that you can point to easily that

  say like oh people don't like this

  channel and they're making a bunch of

  money but I think that gets very easily

  conflated with the absolute stuff that

  we all agree is horrible and so my

  stance is like the worst of the worst

  stuff is not making

  any money on YouTube but that doesn't

  mean that like channels where we start

  having some disagreement over are they

  making money like those channels do

  exist and I do think if advertisers

  don't want to advertise on them that is

  the advertisers prerogative but that's a

  much subtler question I think than what

  most of these new stories are talking

  about and I mean Google's solo it up the

  kazoo they must have contracts in place

  that are saying you know we don't know

  what people are putting in their videos

  sometimes and if suddenly CGP grey

  uploads a video that's different to all

  the ones that have come before it's hard

  for them to realize that your tone has

  changed immediately that is exactly

  right as I mentioned on the show before

  I was told by someone YouTube like oh

  you are listed as one of the school safe

  channels so YouTube has a mode which is

  where schools can have a super lockdown

  version of YouTube yeah and it's like

  okay that's great I know my channels on

  there but I could upload a video that's

  a different thing like how long does it

  take before the system would pull that

  yeah right this is what I mean by like

  you can never possibly have a perfect

  system here there's always going to be a

  thing that you can point to yeah at the

  higher levels it becomes a much more

  complicated issue to talk about hmm what

  do you think in there Brady well my

  overall feeling is that the old-school

  media particularly the times has really

  overcooked this and I'm finding it a

  little bit offensive how conflicted they

  are and how hard they're going and

  they've movie on the bounds of raising

  an issue and stirring up a bit of

  controversy and asking a few questions

  about accountability they've totally

  moved over into feathering their own

  nest mm-hmm

  however I do think it was legitimate to

  point out that there's this

  inappropriate content around sometimes

  it's got ads on it is this something

  that should questions should be asked

  about I think there was legitimate I

  still think it's legitimate I don't know

  I think you're coming across as very

  much like so Pro YouTube that it's

  almost like surprising it's an

  uncomfortable position to be in

  yeah and I do think that YouTube like

  any big company will sometimes only act

  to improve systems whether it's their

  algorithm and how things are

  when they have the blowtorch put on them

  so I do think sometimes it's good for a

  blowtorch such as media attention to be

  applied to companies to make them act

  and look at their systems and think

  should we have a 10,000 rule is there

  more we can do so I think it was fine to

  put a blowtorch on them but I think the

  blowtorch has gone way too far to some

  kind of SuperDuper mother of all flame

  throwers mm-hmm and it's gone beyond the

  realms of what was fair reporting and

  I'm finding it quite frustrating what do

  you think the net result is if you think

  the blowtorch has been held too long and

  turned up too high and we also have to

  look at creators on the margin right for

  whom this does have an impact right and

  a decrease in like we're looking at all

  of the various things and the

  possibility of what YouTube can change

  yeah in your view do you think this

  comes out as a net win or a net loss I

  think it when all the dust settles that

  for a few months or a year or two the

  needle has swung ever so slightly

  maybe the newspapers have stalled this

  move in advertising maybe slightly

  I think it's overall the trend will

  continue

  I think the creators who are the big

  losers are kind of collateral damage hmm

  I mean there's been a lot written about

  this and I think the interesting thing

  is what a lot of the experts I'm reading

  as saying is that all these big

  advertising budgets that are being

  pulled out of YouTube are just going to

  go into sort of Google ads and search

  anyway because they set aside you know

  100 million dollars a year for online

  advertising mm-hmm and they're just

  going to reallocate it around the

  internet anyway and goo who's gonna

  Hoover up most of it anyway well it was

  gonna go to Facebook but somebody else

  is next on the list yeah and also when

  you look at sort of the wording of all

  the media statements from the companies

  they're never saying we're pulling all

  their advertising from the internet or

  Google they're quite canny with their

  wording usually so you can tell they're

  still advertising online so I don't

  think it's quite the victory for

  newspapers that they probably think

  they've landed the only real losers are

  probably you and me well this is why

  I've arranged my whole business so that

  this isn't a problem yeah this is why I

  have my fantastic patrons yeah it is

  really interesting because I'm I've been

  digging around

  data for my own analytics behind the

  scenes trying to see what I can see yeah

  and I am fairly certain that the video I

  uploaded about the YouTube system has

  been put into some kind of political

  category because I could see what the

  CPM s were at the start mmm and like for

  the first two days it was lower than

  normal and then all of a sudden it

  crashed to almost nothing and it's like

  ha this is really interesting like

  somewhere switched was clearly flipped

  where the algorithm thinks oh this is a

  video maybe about politics or whatever

  like who knows what it is but it's

  interesting because I've never had a

  video do that before like comparing it

  with everything else where it's like

  okay now this is earning essentially

  nothing it's interesting to see but I

  still say like its creators on the

  margin who are most affected by this but

  yeah I didn't hear a clear answer from

  you there of overall summing everything

  up is this whole debacle that happens on

  the long scale is it a net positive for

  the world or is it a net negative for

  the world

  what does Brady think oh no I think it

  just balances out like so might as well

  have not happened it's a net neutral

  that's what you're saying like

  everything in the world there are lot

  winners and losers who are the winners I

  feel like this is very important who do

  you think is the winner in this

  situation who comes out better after

  these news stories whoa I'm sure if you

  ask Google and YouTube if they could

  turn back the clock and have the stories

  not appear they would say yes let's have

  them not appear and if you ask the times

  do you regret running them do you want

  to not do them they would say no no

  we're glad we did it so based on that

  clearly the winners in that battle is

  the newspaper I think it will result in

  it being a little bit harder for people

  creating an appropriate content to make

  money so that's like a small positive

  that's come out of it I don't know how

  big a positive because again I don't

  know how much money these make you tell

  me it's nothing you're more likely to

  know than me so I'm assuming a right but

  I don't know that you're right

  regardless I think it will be even

  harder to make money with inappropriate

  content now I think that's a good result

  I think people who

  make their living via revenue on YouTube

  have taken a hit I don't know how long

  that hit will last for their losers if

  they are making appropriate content

  which most of them are so I don't really

  think of it like that I don't really

  think of it as winners and losers that I

  just think it's like I've really got to

  do the society calculus right we add up

  all the benefits and all the harms alike

  and there's a net positive for the world

  or a net negative for the world I need a

  bit longer I haven't got all the data I

  mean I haven't got enough data to know

  how big the problem was yeah that's that

  that is the big unknown you think it's

  completely trivial I think it's much

  much less than the times made it sound

  but I don't know if it's as trivial as

  you're making it sound mmm

  I don't know if it was a problem I think

  it kind of was a problem but if these

  videos have made like half of one cent

  and they just screen captured the one

  moment in history when an ad was served

  against it then okay it was not a

  problem I tend to think it must be a

  little bit worse than that all I can go

  on is the fact that when people free

  boot my videos there's certainly a

  boatload of ads running against them so

  whatever mechanisms are in place to stop

  freebooting aren't working and people

  are making money from that a little

  different I don't think those things get

  flagged as fast as a terrorist

  recruitment video I realize that but

  what I'm saying is that's all I've got

  to go on right and if that's all I've

  got to go on then the history has shown

  me that these hosts of media aren't

  particularly super red-hot on doing this

  they do it they get around to it and if

  this has made them improve their systems

  a bit if the new 10,000 rule is a big

  positive then something's come of it I

  guess but don't get me wrong I think it

  was a bit scummy the times are overdone

  er they're continuing to overdo it it's

  driving me crazy it's making me a little

  bit mad now when I read age mourning

  it's like just because of the brazenness

  of it I think more than anything like

  the obvious of it I just find it a

  little bit

  yeah bit yucky you know like I don't

  care about Facebook but I don't like

  Facebook no I don't like me look I

  reckon I still don't want to see that

  their business slandered essential

  their business slandered essential

  blew by supposedly reputable news

  sources I don't I agree I've done a

  really terrible job of answering a

  question because I don't really think of

  it in terms of winners and losers it's

  been bit of a mucky episode but you know

  a Walmart aired running against one

  beheading video is also unfortunate I

  understand why it happens and the system

  we work in but I think you're a lot more

  of an apologist for these automated

  systems than i apologist the apologist

  realist brady really was a realist I

  think you can always make it better and

  I think they don't have best in making

  these things better until they felt the

  heat I don't think they should have felt

  as much heat as they have when this much

  money moves around and investment is

  pulled real lives are affected and we

  shouldn't forget that as well but I also

  think like in general terms one of the

  roles the media can play is holding

  businesses to account that aren't doing

  enough to do their job properly I don't

  know if that's what happened here you

  say absolutely not I say maybe they

  could have done more maybe I'd like to

  see some data I do think that's a

  legitimate role for journalists to play

  I don't think the times should be

  beating their chests about

  investigations I think this is trivial

  what they've done they've just spun it

  into a clever story that there we go

  it's happened that's a we can say for

  sure it's a thing that happened that we

  and I'll be introducing how it ends

  it'll never end they'll do this forever

  I'll find another read on some obscure

  video and then add a little kick off

  again it'll never end Brady that I can

  pretty much guarantee you it'll end when

  the times goes out of business this

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  let's do it I have finally finished

  Westworld

  I started watching this and stopped then

  you told me you'd watched it and

  finished it so I I went back to it and

  finished it so that we have both speak

  from position of knowledge yes although

  at this point it has been quite a while

  since I watched Westworld yeah so I

  think our conversation might be somewhat

  brief but I'm happy to discuss Westworld

  a little bit because everybody seemed to

  want us to at least touch upon it

  yeah and as I briefly mentioned when we

  first brought it up but you you wanted

  to cut me off this is an example of

  people recommending a thing recommending

  it in the right way simply just saying

  watch Westworld

  not mentioning anything about it

  and I watched a thing and I definitely

  enjoyed it so this was a good

  recommendation

  from the audience from my perspective

  now since the Brady rule is that you

  have to lay your cards down on the table

  yep we can't play poker not across a

  smoky table yeah with guns on our side

  we have to just put it down on the table

  yep what did you think Brady well what

  is your opinion of the west-world

  well we've both kind of tipped our hands

  a little bit yeah but you didn't finish

  it so it doesn't no but I did stop

  because I wasn't enjoying it mm-hmm and

  a lot of people did say to me now stick

  with it it gets better which I don't

  agree with I kind of do agree with it I

  do agree with that I enjoyed the second

  half more than the first half of the

  series mm-hmm so should I go first and

  say a few things a few of my thoughts

  yeah but so is that a you liked it this

  is worth watching this was a good look

  at my time okay it's a high quality show

  it's well-made it's thought-provoking

  it's interesting it has a lot to

  recommend itself and I would say watch

  if someone said to me Brady I'm thinking

  of watching Westworld should I do it I

  would say yes definitely do it okay

  great that's what I wanted to know

  that's what I was interested in and yet

  frankly I feel a little bit relieved

  that that is your opinion

  yeah because my feeling is like if

  someone watches two episodes of

  Westworld and they don't like it I don't

  think I could confidently say you should

  go on and continue to watch it because I

  feel like it is what it is right from

  the start and right through the end so

  it's interesting that you had a bit of a

  different experience that you liked it

  more as it went on okay I can maybe

  explain why that's the case I'll say the

  things I didn't like about it okay

  because that's always the most

  interesting yeah it's an it's the

  easiest and the most fun is to complain

  about yeah now Westworld

  started at a slight disadvantage because

  I think I don't have a natural affinity

  for the Wild West genre ah yeah and half

  the show is kind of wild Westy obviously

  half the shows in all the cool super

  high-tech labs but half of the show is

  out in the theme park ones all wild

  Westy and I just don't have a natural

  enjoyment of the

  Wester Chandra don't Australians have

  like a Wild West there must have been

  like cowboy genres out in Australia

  right yeah we we had our frontiers and

  that doesn't mean that I like the genre

  in films just because I'm from a country

  where we had a frontier no I disagree

  100 percent of Americans love the West

  that's how that works

  okay so that was a slight disadvantage

  for me and I certainly enjoyed the

  moments in the labs and things much more

  than the scenes out in the park mmm that

  appealed to me more and another thing I

  would say about the series was I felt

  like like it was a bit of a slow burn on

  some of the storylines and I don't mind

  a slow burn but I felt like maybe this

  was too slow a burn and some of the

  payoffs came a little bit too late I

  think some of these storylines that you

  invested in that later on how to pay off

  maybe they should have sprinkled in some

  of that a bit earlier because some of

  the stuff some of the little twists and

  things that came later on I thought oh

  that's nice like I feel glad I watched

  now I felt like if they sprinkled them

  in earlier it would have pulled me

  through the series a bit better rather

  than kind of back loading all of the

  twists and interesting stuff and maybe

  that's why I enjoyed the second half

  more because I felt like at last I was

  getting some payment for my investment

  in these stories so I was like okay I

  see what you did there thank you took me

  long enough but all right yeah I'll

  agree that they probably could have cut

  one episodes worth of contents and not

  really suffered anything I think the

  biggest problem though for me was there

  were too many storylines and characters

  that I didn't engage with and like hmm

  so you know how when you're watching a

  really good series that you really like

  every time they cut to a new storyline

  or a new person and what they're up to

  you're like I forgot about this I loved

  this one - mm-hmm like and there are

  very few where it's like oh this is the

  boring one this is when I have a cup of

  coffee or not pad like a good series has

  none of them a bad series has lots of

  them Westworld had a couple like there

  were a couple of times when it was like

  no I don't like this one I wish they'd

  go back to the other one if you remember

  which which were some of the storylines

  you found lesson

  I can't specifically remember now in

  hindsight but a lot of it was groups of

  people riding around on horses going

  places I didn't really know where they

  were going okay

  it's a pretty big swath of things I like

  the people on the horses

  yeah just to mention very briefly not to

  interject but a thing that I found

  really interesting so one of the ways I

  like watching a series like this is I

  sort of binge it all and then when it's

  done the exciting part for me is like

  now I'm gonna go on Reddit and see what

  the discussions are when the whole thing

  is done and over with yeah like I find

  that a very very enjoyable part of some

  bin jabal TV shows it's like I don't

  want to follow this as we're going along

  but I'm very interested afterward and

  like a perfect example this is like mr.

  robot or stranger things where people

  can point out stuff that you didn't

  notice and so it was the same thing with

  Westworld it was like okay great now I

  want to go find all the details that

  people have found in all this this

  fabulous stuff but one of the other

  reasons that I think is very interesting

  is it seemed like there was a big

  consensus that people did not like the

  one storyline in particular which was

  about the madam trying to escape from

  West world that had like a whole bunch

  of thumbs down of her constantly waking

  up in technology land and trying to

  escape from West world as I it's really

  interesting to see how there can be a

  strong consensus about a thing that I

  think if I had seen people talking about

  that going along it might have infected

  my mind but I thought like oh no I like

  that part I had no issue with it

  whatsoever so that's why I was just kind

  of curious to see like did you hit upon

  the thing well that at least commenters

  on the Internet seemed to dislike the

  most

  I liked that storyline I liked that as a

  character like I was interested in like

  it kind of lost a bit of puff towards

  the last episode or two yeah but overall

  I liked her storyline the sandy Newton's

  character but the weak link for me for

  the show in terms of this kind of thing

  mm-hmm was in a show filled with like

  really good actors and actresses

  was Dolores hmm

  who was such an important character to

  the show mm-hmm and she just got more

  and more important as it went along to

  the end where she was super important I

  just never really liked her hmm and I

  don't know if it was the way she was

  written or if it was the way she was

  acted but I just never cared about her

  at all like I mean I know she's a robot

  and stuff but like I didn't care about

  robots I know I just never she was a big

  weak link to me from always from the

  first five minutes of the series right

  to the end

  I never warmed to her I never cared

  about her I never wanted bad things to

  happen to her or good things to happen

  to her she just left me completely cold

  in every way and because she was so

  pivotal to what they were doing I don't

  know who the actress is actually or if

  she's like some mega superstar but I

  felt like they could have done with like

  a real heavy hitter in the acting

  Department hmm in that role because you

  know you got Ed Harris and Anthony

  Hopkins and you got some got some good

  actors in that show and really like

  people who just really captivate you hmm

  and she just was the opposite maybe it

  was supposed to be that way and like it

  was some act of genius but she was a

  real weak link in the show for me hmm

  and one last criticism I'll make before

  I hand the floor to her friend is a

  criticism you often make which i think

  is one of my favorite ways you criticize

  things but it is always a criticism is

  your whoa dude criticism like that's a

  way of saying something's trying to be

  smart but it's not your kind of frat boy

  puffing on a bong going well dude this

  is like philosophy I think as I liked

  Westfield but West Weald was whoa dude

  for the pseudo-intellectual people who

  like trendy glass concrete architecture

  and cool iPads and people who say AI and

  cognitive a lot hmm like it was whoa

  dude dressed in sheep's clothing and

  like most of the time it was you know

  whoa what if the robots are alive well

  what if this is that like it was whoa

  dude all the time but for redditors who

  think they're too smart to say whoa dude

  there was a lot of that I like how you

  portray that is a general criticism

  whereas it was a criticism of one

  particular book was the world dude but I

  totally get what you're saying and this

  is always whenever watching anything

  that you have feeling of if it strikes

  you you're always willing to go along

  with stuff and if it doesn't strike you

  you're not willing to go along with

  stuff like that's how all movies and

  media work and I can totally see how

  especially in the earlier episodes if

  you're not going along with it like the

  ridiculous

  set where it's like we all work in 100%

  glass offices can feel like it's a

  little much I can definitely see that

  and they do have a little bit of their

  techno jargon when they're talking about

  oh these robots they have reveries and

  they're able to remember their past

  selves it is a bit like I would you're

  going a bit far here like this stuff

  doesn't really matter these details and

  it feels like you're doing something to

  do something so I can see how you could

  feel that at certain parts in the show

  but I like to I am genuinely glad that

  you liked it I'm glad that you didn't

  feel like it was a waste of your time no

  definitely not tell me your thoughts

  about it tell me what captured you and

  what you liked and didn't like here's a

  problem for me Brady is I feel like this

  show was the center of a bull's eye for

  a few things that then allowed me to go

  along with a whole bunch of other stuff

  and so center of the bullseye number one

  is I love this environment of it's the

  Wild West but it's also the future I

  love this in West world I love this in

  Firefly one of the video games I play

  the most called rim world is also set in

  this kind of like it's the Wild West but

  it's also the future I don't know why

  but I feel like this setting really

  nails it for me I feel like there's

  something about the fact that the

  American idea of the Wild West is such

  like a made-up thing anyway like what

  Americans think the Wild West was is

  like nothing at all like what the actual

  Wild West was something about that to me

  kind of lends itself in a strange way to

  the science fiction genre like it's such

  an artificial setting that I think using

  it as the setting for this park

  just works perfectly it's like this

  wild-west it wasn't real in the first

  place and now we're creating like a

  little fantasy place for people to ride

  around on horses that is totally the

  center of the bullseye for me the other

  thing which is going to be a little bit

  hard to explain is this show was very

  enjoyable to me on another level which

  is I have played in the past massively

  multiplayer online role-playing games so

  things like World of Warcraft and I

  would just love to know but like I think

  the writers of this show had to be

  fairly heavily influenced by the way

  those games work because so much of this

  show felt like oh we're going to do

  world of warcraft but we're going to put

  it in a real-world setting so there's

  lots of elements in the show that I felt

  like I'm enjoying this on two levels

  because it's like oh the show is

  happening but it's like they're kind of

  calling out oh yes some of these

  characters these are where quests begin

  right this is the exact way it works in

  World of Warcraft these event Nara tapes

  I call them yeah the narratives right

  but it's like in World of Warcraft

  those characters have like golden

  exclamation marks above their head so

  you know like this is where a story can

  begin yeah or the idea that like it gets

  more dangerous the further out from the

  center of town you go it's like oh of

  course

  there's like the protective starting

  newbie area just like in all of these

  games in the further you get from that

  the more dangerous it gets so I feel

  like there were so many things that felt

  like they were intentional calls or

  references to a particular kind of way

  that certain video games work and then

  that works for me on an additional level

  because in those games I never really

  care about the game at all

  I only care about just exploring like

  and riding around on a horse and then so

  it's it's this double thing with like oh

  of course in West world what do they do

  they're riding around on horses like

  they're exploring this whole world yeah

  so I felt like again it just hit me in

  the right spot in a couple of ways that

  a bunch of stuff that in another show I

  might have been annoyed with or find

  tiresome I felt very happy to just go

  along with it

  I felt like I was really on board with

  his show yeah okay and just in a way the

  TV shows are made like what you were

  saying before I felt like this is a

  well-crafted show I like it when it

  feels like effort has been put into

  making an interesting watching

  experience I thought it's a show that

  did a great job of naturally exploring

  its own premise yeah so a lot of the

  things that they did of like oh of

  course we're in an amusement park where

  some people are robots and so since

  those people who are robots they don't

  age we can show you things out of order

  and you won't realize it until later

  yeah because the robots are always

  looking the same but the people who

  aren't robots look different I didn't

  see that coming to be honest that was

  quite well done yeah I have to say like

  sometimes when you're watching shows you

  feel like oh I know where this is going

  and even in a show like this you're like

  someone's gonna be a robot who is in a

  robot like obviously right we know this

  is how these stories work but I still

  felt like they did it in an interesting

  way adding in this fact that you're

  constantly seeing stuff out of order and

  not realizing it added to the

  interestingness of it and I went back

  and watched a few of the earlier

  episodes again knowing that I was like

  oh yes this is doubly clever like I'm

  getting an enjoying viewing experience

  the second time through in a different

  way hmm which by the way is one of the

  reasons why I love the reddit because

  people were pointing out that if you

  know that there are these two different

  timelines there's all sorts of little

  clues in all of the scenes that let you

  know right where you are in time like

  stuff in the background is different

  that you just don't notice on the first

  one or so

  so I'd say like I just felt like really

  great show explored its premise I liked

  it a whole lot I'm frankly a little

  concerned that there's going to be a

  season two because I feel like it's a

  nice little self-contained thing I don't

  really feel like there's a need for

  another season here at the end I did cuz

  I didn't know if I'm making season 2 or

  not but I did think well obviously

  they're setting up season 2 or you could

  end it there really class early but

  they're going season 2 are they you can

  never enter classily right it's like

  I've seen a couple of shows where I feel

  like oh what a nice complete first

  season we could end it there oh there's

  going to be another one like well are we

  going to go to Samurai

  and for season two that they hinted at I

  feel I feel ready to be disappointed by

  a second season because the first season

  was just such a nice self-contained

  thing so I really liked it was there

  anything you didn't like what did you

  think about all the storylines and the

  characters and the acting and the what

  do you think of the character

  development you haven't talked about

  that side of things at all really well I

  guess because again I was mostly on

  board with it I agree with some of the

  things you say like there were a couple

  places where I felt like it was dragging

  a little bit towards the end but again

  I'm also marathoning these things over

  two days yeah and I feel like that leads

  to a very different viewing experience

  than if you're watching it yeah

  segmented Lee so I really don't have any

  major complaints I just think it was

  interesting and well done and I liked it

  two thumbs up and it's probably one of

  the I'm going to say one of the top TV

  viewing experiences I've had in a very

  long time

  so I don't actually have a long list of

  complaints but I do recognize that there

  are things that I would complain about

  in a less well-done show but I was fine

  with them in this show I'm very happy

  with it

  I guess like a thing that I think is a

  kind of interesting question which is

  not really about the show by like I've

  been wondering and I don't have a good

  answer to this I would like to know if

  you would go to Westworld like if this

  was a real thing would you go brady i

  feel like i have no idea how you would

  answer this I reckon I would yeah you

  would okay why would you go oh I like a

  good adventure mm-hmm and you know I

  like that it's kind of exclusive and

  posh as well because that is that part

  of what you like about it

  interesting yeah it looks like they take

  care of their customers uh-huh

  you know you think you get the respect

  you deserve see exactly what yeah and

  I'd like the adventure of like getting

  to you know have adventures with guns

  and stuff without being scared of dying

  hmm

  so you know because I quite like you

  know I like playing paintball and things

  like that I always find that quite

  adventurous you know running around the

  forest and shooting and stuff here's the

  thing that I've wondered that so that

  the fakeness of it wouldn't bother you

  like the fact that it's all set up and

  that you know that you're protected that

  wouldn't undermine it for you no I think

  I would appreciate

  a the safety of it hmm in the context of

  it's a place where you go to escape and

  have adventures and you know mm-hmm you

  know I wouldn't go there trying to like

  yeah make new friends better what about

  you would you go to West world oh my god

  yeah of course in the heartbeat I would

  go why because that to me seems like the

  perfect kind of adventure to have where

  I don't want to ride around on a horse

  in the real American West yeah

  because I can die of thirst or get stung

  by a scorpion all right like there's all

  kinds of bad things that can happen yeah

  and so I would ride around in in West

  world for the same reason that I rode

  around in World of Warcraft because

  there is some kind of pleasure to

  exploring new things and that could be

  achieved in this kind of environment and

  the fact that it's a safe environment

  allows you to have a certain kind of

  more adventurous fun than you normally

  would so oh yeah I would be on board

  immediately and also I would go to West

  world

  you can keep your samurai world that

  sounds really boring and uninteresting I

  have no desire to go there to take it a

  step further and to take it where the

  show took it would you have ethical

  concerns about what was being done to

  the hosts is it cruel what they're doing

  to those robots so that's the

  interesting question right I think if a

  real-life West world had this kind of

  technology and the robots were actually

  conscious then to me it's like it's

  unambiguous this is morally

  reprehensible right this is essentially

  slavery I don't think there's any way

  you can argue around that if they're

  conscious but what I what I have found

  really interesting is it seems like

  people disagree on the morality of it if

  West's world works in a sense the way

  it's supposed to that the robots are

  just complicated toasters right that

  there's nothing inside that they don't

  have any actual feelings that they're

  just simulating experience and emotion

  and then I feel like well I have no

  problem with this in the same way that I

  don't have a problem with Disney's Hall

  of Presidents right like there's no

  moral problem there you've just made a

  thing that's much more convincing but

  it's interesting that like

  from people I've spoken to about the

  show it seems like in some people's

  minds there's a line that gets crossed

  if a thing becomes too convincingly

  human then it's a moral even if the

  thing isn't conscious where do you sit

  on that line what's the question it is

  the question that if it seems to human

  will I start thinking it's conscious

  there's two questions what I think is

  the easy question is Westworld wrong

  morally wrong if the robots inside of it

  are conscious creatures yeah if they're

  conscious in the way that I'm conscious

  yeah in the way that you're conscious

  right so like when when people are

  stabbing them they're feeling pain

  yeah stabbing them and raping them and

  shooting them in the head and if they're

  conscious then yes yes yeah that's the

  easy question yeah the harder question

  is it morally wrong if they're not

  conscious if they are like a mechanical

  object that experiences nothing then in

  most cases no because it's no different

  to shooting a bottle of a shelf at a

  shooting gallery if it's just a

  inanimate object okay so what do you

  mean by most cases though well it does

  start raising questions where you're

  tapping into the dark side of the humans

  so you know if a human's going to this

  place to start performing depraved acts

  and feeding and fueling sides of their

  personality that a morally ambiguous you

  could probably have conversations around

  that is it right for you know a married

  man or woman to go to this place and

  start performing acts and doing things

  that they wouldn't do in the real world

  because they can get away with it

  they're then then you could start having

  a conversation around that mm-hmm I

  don't know where that conversation would

  take you but that obviously is

  questionable isn't it like you know you

  displaying your murderer you know or

  going there to act out your murderous

  intent is that a good thing to do is it

  good for there to be a place where

  people can act on impulses they wouldn't

  act on in the real world sometimes I

  think that's okay other time it's maybe

  not I don't know yeah I think there's a

  two questions here in this which is

  someone's actions in Westworld even if

  there's nothing morally wrong because

  the robots are not feeling anything and

  it feels like it could raise some

  questions about the person though yeah

  like if you know your buddy goes to West

  world and he spends his day torturing

  the robots yeah slowly and in detailed

  ways I'd feel a little uncomfortable

  letting him take care of my dog for the

  weekend yeah right because I feel like

  you're getting some information about

  the person yeah

  and that's that's like an uncomfortable

  thing because you're finding out

  something about a person but it's more

  than just finding out about it is it

  also cultivating it isn't starting to

  you know breed those impulses and make

  them more likely to be act upon that's

  where it becomes an interesting question

  that is an interesting question but what

  I also find interesting though is that I

  have found disagreement with people

  about whether or not that would be wrong

  for someone to do right even if the

  thing isn't experience anything it's

  interesting that there seemed

  disagreement over here and I like when I

  was watching the show I kept being aware

  of like if I was in West world I would

  be playing it the same way that I played

  World of Warcraft which is essentially

  like I don't care about your quests

  right I just want to ride my horse

  around and explore these different areas

  and if I did do any of those quests or

  those adventures I was trying to think

  like where is the line how far would I

  want to push this line and it's like oh

  I could see a fun adventure where I'm

  shooting bandits at a distance and an

  adventure like there's some guys on a

  mountaintop that I'm shooting yeah but

  boy is it gets closer and closer it

  becomes more and more uncomfortable

  sticking and nothing they got and right

  yeah and it's like that's what I was

  trying to think it's like okay

  hand-to-hand combat with knives even if

  I think the robot is unconscious that

  feels uncomfortable like that would not

  be an enjoyable experience yeah

  I think like it's just interesting to

  kind of think it through it's like oh I

  could imagine enjoying an adventure

  where you're shooting someone at a

  distance but like the hand-to-hand stuff

  it's like even if this is not a real

  thing like this this robot is not

  conscious it's not experience anything

  it's like I don't want to do this right

  like I don't want to slit

  guys neck right up close even if none of

  its real and I'm ultimately safe and no

  one is being harmed like it just it

  would feel like it's personally crossing

  some kind of line like this is not an

  enjoyable experience and I would find it

  concerning if we're in West world and

  like somebody else's is doing that all

  the time

  it's why I think I think the show is an

  interesting point of conversation around

  some of that stuff yeah it's sort of

  like the holodeck question like you

  mentioned before they have you on Star

  Trek when they use the holodeck like can

  you cheat on your spouse in the holodeck

  there's some disagreement about whether

  or not that's cheating yeah it's a

  question without a good answer in date

  in date anyway two thumbs up from West

  world for me well I haven't watched it

  and you've listened somehow go watch it

  I guess

  did you see how Netflix now has switched

  to you give a thumbs up or a thumbs down

  to a show at the end and no more star

  ratings Oh have they yeah oh I can't

  believe you haven't seen that everyone's

  been pointing that out to us oh I miss I

  missed that somehow you must take that

  as a big victory did I promote that in

  the past at one point did I say did I

  promote everyone's talking to me like

  it's a victory for me but I keep

  thinking why are you saying that's a

  victory for me that sounds like a

  victory for grey you know me i'm i was

  using minutes on a clock to rate the

  film so if i ever promoted that i don't

  remember

  but you're more like thumbs up or thumbs

  down to whether things are good or not

  you're not one for like you know three

  and a half stars or seven out of ten

  you're like thumbs up or thumbs down i

  yeah i like thumbs up for movies yeah

  cuz i think maybe what people are

  remembering is i know we had a

  conversation a long time ago about with

  five star ratings on youtube before

  youtube switched everybody was either

  giving things five stars or one star

  like that that's what tends to happen

  with readings that are 5 so like i bet

  that happens with uber right that the

  ratings are like yeah five stars or one

  star yeah i remember being born out of

  you giving a thumbs down to her which i

  couldn't believe like i oh yeah

  thumbs down a strong thumbs dan yeah

  yeah yes sir i'm some sticking by that

  reading but yeah yeah okay yeah just to

  be clear yeah I recommend nobody watch

  her boring

  you

  and you did whole you did bite your

  tongue enough so good yeah I'm glad you

  you thought I bit my tongue enough yeah

  I let that statement slide and that's a

  compliment to you by the way that wasn't

  like that was that was like saying you

  were very gracious I was I was sticking

  a fork in my leg the whole time like

  don't say anything don't use very

  gracious you were very gracious