0:00:00are you ready for my prepared statement
0:00:01about the news Brady have you been right
0:00:04it's like what you've been doing the
0:00:05last three or four days just just just
0:00:08handing it that's right yeah I have a
0:00:10have an opening statement about the news
0:00:12okay there's 20,000 words and I will I
0:00:16will truck no direct response afterward
0:00:20put a big piece of gaff tape over my
0:00:23mouth
0:00:24I have penguin news this is gonna be
0:00:28penguin ooh
0:00:29a shaggy dog story okay I'll get
0:00:32comfortable and I've thought about how
0:00:34to tell that but I've decided to tell it
0:00:36chronologically so you can experience it
0:00:39as I experienced it so very very quick
0:00:42background ER for people who are new to
0:00:44the podcast a couple of years back now I
0:00:46think it was gray and I were involved in
0:00:48a fundraising event at Bristol Zoo
0:00:50raising money for South African penguins
0:00:53which I found I actually have the
0:00:54nickname jackass penguins because of the
0:00:56noise they make which was new
0:00:58information to me okay anyway and to
0:01:02thank us for helping with the
0:01:03fundraising the zoo took the very
0:01:06unusual step of naming one of their
0:01:08newborn penguins
0:01:09CGP grey this was only the second time
0:01:12they've ever named a penguin the other
0:01:14one that has a name is the generic one
0:01:16that anyone who sponsors penguins gets a
0:01:18certificate about so having a name was a
0:01:20big deal we were very grateful and I
0:01:23promised to sort of follow the Penguins
0:01:25progress and I have to admit besides
0:01:27getting some video of its first weigh-in
0:01:30and revealing the fact that the penguin
0:01:32was a lady mm-hmm that was pretty much
0:01:35the last we spoke about
0:01:36CGP grey the lady penguin yes you gave
0:01:40me a bit of a ribbing about not
0:01:41following it very closely but anyway
0:01:43only because you said you were going to
0:01:46take up the mantle of regular reports
0:01:48otherwise I would I would not have
0:01:49ribbed you okay Hey look I deserve I
0:01:52deserved it I'll take it you got you got
0:01:55me anyway some news came to hand a few
0:01:58weeks ago who was spotted by the Thames
0:02:00not by us that as a result of a tragedy
0:02:04in the capital of Georgia city called
0:02:06Tbilisi where there was serious serious
0:02:09flooding in which many humans died but
0:02:11it also was very very devastating
0:02:13for their zoo they lost many many of
0:02:16their animals and as a result the people
0:02:19that oversee zoos in Europe asked all
0:02:21the other European zoos to help them
0:02:23repopulate their animal population and
0:02:27Bristol Zoo was kind of requestor but
0:02:31also kind of instructed because how it
0:02:33works to give a certain number of their
0:02:36penguins to Tbilisi zoo which Bristol
0:02:41Zoo did this came to our attention and
0:02:43of course the first thing we wondered
0:02:45was was CGP grey among the Penguins
0:02:47shipped to Tbilisi and we didn't know
0:02:50there's the background what has happened
0:02:54since here we go okay it was story all
0:02:58right so the story has not yet begun the
0:03:00story hasn't again that was the vectra's
0:03:03was the background okay yeah now in true
0:03:06investigative nature some some of the
0:03:08more zealous fans of the podcast started
0:03:12trying to make contact with Tbilisi Zoo
0:03:14and I saw on reddit someone had
0:03:16contacted the zoo through Facebook and
0:03:18said is CGP grey the penguin with you
0:03:21this is easy to find out because CGP
0:03:24grey the penguin has a name tag or a
0:03:26number tag on the wing a two oh five
0:03:29eight three right it's the wing number
0:03:31anyway so you could look up databases in
0:03:33there and the word from Tbilisi was
0:03:34apparently this was their answer I
0:03:36couldn't read it because it wasn't in
0:03:38English but their answer was CGP grey
0:03:40the penguin is not here apparently the
0:03:43zoo has a popular penguin that it wasn't
0:03:45willing to send presumably CGP grey so
0:03:48CGP grey is still in bristol uh-huh and
0:03:50there was all chat on reddit about her
0:03:52and it was problem solved and well done
0:03:54and a second person said actually my
0:03:56mum's friend works at Tbilisi Zoo
0:03:59amazingly they also made some inquiries
0:04:02and confirmed that CGP grey wasn't set
0:04:04okay I had been trying to contact
0:04:08Bristol Zoo I'd sent some emails to
0:04:10various people in their media department
0:04:13I wasn't getting replies I wasn't happy
0:04:17about not getting replies you were not
0:04:19getting the reserved don't say it I just
0:04:22want to say cuz I like I know that tone
0:04:24of voice I like these people are not
0:04:26responding to my emails quick
0:04:27enough I know I know how you get pretty
0:04:30anyway and then I thought this is not
0:04:33the brainy way to be crowdsourcing
0:04:36hearsay on reddit or to be waiting for
0:04:39press people to maybe reply and maybe
0:04:42not especially when the zoo is only 20
0:04:43minutes from my house so I this was a
0:04:46call to arms and I thought I'm not just
0:04:48gonna sit here I'm gonna be a man of
0:04:50action I'm going to go to the zoo I'm
0:04:52going to find the penguin so I got my
0:04:56camera with my long lens Wow
0:04:58so okay so I could zoom in I've got a
0:05:00special new super long lens and you know
0:05:03I'm not going to deny I made bit of a
0:05:05hoo-ha on Twitter and on snapchat about
0:05:08it made a big deal saying that's it I'm
0:05:10coming to the zoo this ends today I said
0:05:13I took pictures on the way as I crossed
0:05:15the suspension bridge and I was going in
0:05:17so I'm you know I was I was not quiet
0:05:19about the fact I was doing this were you
0:05:21making
0:05:21snapchat story about it were you doing
0:05:24that I was I wasn't a snapchat story I'm
0:05:26okay lie so I arrived at the zoo half
0:05:29expecting them to be waiting for me
0:05:31right with a red Carson head I
0:05:33understand yeah well no not necessarily
0:05:34the red car but I thought maybe it would
0:05:36be a bit more defensive than that the
0:05:38people on Twitter had seen my comments
0:05:40and it's at all well we've seen your
0:05:42email and we're going to get back to you
0:05:43and I'm like now you've had your chance
0:05:45and I've played on went straight to the
0:05:48penguin enclosure long-lens uh-huh
0:05:51and actually it was feeding time when I
0:05:53got there and I said to the woman
0:05:54feeding Oh have you said I'm looking for
0:05:56a specific penguin and she was like she
0:05:59wasn't having any of it she was like oh
0:06:00I'm not the usual penguin keeper I can't
0:06:02help ya she could hey I just love I love
0:06:05the idea from this person's perspective
0:06:07that like a crazy man with a telephoto
0:06:09lens like I'm here for a specific
0:06:11penguin yeah yeah anyway so I got out
0:06:16the long lens and I started zooming in
0:06:18on and then there's loads of penguins
0:06:20there yeah then it turns out it turns
0:06:23out even with the long lens it was quite
0:06:24hard to read the numbers and also the
0:06:26penguins don't make your job any easier
0:06:28like they face the way they want to face
0:06:30branding that's it that's the way they
0:06:31can her face so I was always waiting for
0:06:33penguins to turn around but sometimes
0:06:35the wing tag is flat the wrong way
0:06:36around and it's in there like wing pit
0:06:38like in that
0:06:40okay and so for those ones I had to wait
0:06:41for them to flap their wings to even get
0:06:43a look at the number some of them didn't
0:06:45seem to have a number they just had like
0:06:47a a wing band with no number written on
0:06:49ER and I was wearing that might be CGP
0:06:51grey huh and just as I was giving up
0:06:53hope this penguin steps out from behind
0:06:56the wall and I look at the number that's
0:06:58the number I've been looking for ends
0:06:59with the three and it's got all the
0:07:01thing I start taking loads and loads of
0:07:03pictures of it it even starts posing for
0:07:05me I go onto snapchat and say look who
0:07:07it is and I like put a fun thing and I
0:07:09you know make a big deal that I've found
0:07:11the penguin huh then I think I haven't
0:07:13got that I haven't got the killer photo
0:07:14yet of the wing number on the thing so I
0:07:17decided to get one more number before
0:07:19leaving the zoo and when I go for that
0:07:21photo and I look closely it turns out
0:07:23that's not the number that uh it's out
0:07:25by one digit it looked just like the
0:07:28number but it was out but I double
0:07:29checked I found my mistake okay so they
0:07:32actually do just number them
0:07:33sequentially they don't have check
0:07:34digits or anything like that I don't
0:07:36know this was a very similar number so
0:07:38anyway back to square one some of them
0:07:40are sleeping in their little hatches and
0:07:42things I'm having to wait for them to
0:07:43come out I must have been there 45
0:07:45minutes and then suddenly these two
0:07:48people appear behind me and this is a
0:07:51older man and a younger lady who it
0:07:53turns out is the social media manager
0:07:55for you know the Twitter person and like
0:07:58the head of communications with the zoo
0:07:59and they're like oh you're Brady and I'm
0:08:03like yeah I am
0:08:03I was really friendly really friendly
0:08:05yes I am I'm here looking for CTP great
0:08:08the penguin and they're like yeah to me
0:08:11you know can we have a chair and I'm
0:08:12like yeah yeah sure we can late and they
0:08:14wanted to take me away from the penguin
0:08:15enclosure and I'm like oh we can chat
0:08:17here and they're like no no let's go for
0:08:18a chat
0:08:19oh they took me ahead of the enclosure
0:08:21we went cells bench right they want you
0:08:24to have a seats there for a moment
0:08:26before we talk to you yeah okay mmm and
0:08:28I say before we go like is my penguin
0:08:30there I want to take a picture of CGP
0:08:32Grey and they say no it was you know in
0:08:33the gone to Tbilisi and I'm like oh
0:08:35that's great I thought they was scared
0:08:37that I was going to be upset they'd sent
0:08:38it to Tbilisi mm-hmm so I said don't
0:08:40worry like gray and I'll be really happy
0:08:43if it's going to timbala see we think
0:08:44it's a really good story etc etc you
0:08:46know we like that you know we'd like the
0:08:48story then Merc head of communication
0:08:50says well unfortunately CGP grey the
0:08:53ping
0:08:54and died on the trip to Tbilisi there
0:09:04were 19 penguins sent three of them
0:09:06actually died on this trip and one of
0:09:08them CGP grey the penguin and I tell you
0:09:11I have never I cannot think of a weird
0:09:14time in my life then sitting on this
0:09:16bench at the zoo with these two zoo
0:09:18employees either side of me and it was
0:09:21like in the movies like when the surgeon
0:09:22comes out and says yeah that's that's
0:09:24what it feels like that's what it feels
0:09:25like it was just like that or like when
0:09:27the police come and it was like and it
0:09:29was really difficult because like they
0:09:31would devastate to have to do this I
0:09:33felt really bad for them and I was kind
0:09:36of having to console them and I was
0:09:38saying putting the armor inside don't
0:09:40worry about it look you know this these
0:09:41things happen and they're like we're so
0:09:43sorry we should have told you we should
0:09:44have told you we were moving it and we
0:09:46should have told you what happened and
0:09:47we're really you know we really said
0:09:48that the Penguins died and was this
0:09:50really weird thing and then they got
0:09:52like the head of birds for the zoo to
0:09:55come and meet me and give me like the
0:09:56full story of everything that happened
0:09:58and his assistant and we're having this
0:10:00big long talk and we ended up talking
0:10:02for like half an hour in great minutiae
0:10:05about everything and then then I was
0:10:08like well all right I guess I'll be
0:10:12going now then sorry sorry that this
0:10:14happened and I left the zoo and CGP grey
0:10:18the lady penguin has died I feel very
0:10:21strange about this I tell you what I the
0:10:23more I think about it the sadder I feel
0:10:26because you know when that was just a
0:10:27baby we were there we saw it I feel
0:10:29attached to it I made that cute video of
0:10:31it with the cute music as a baby I
0:10:33posted the footage of it being weighed
0:10:35and I feel this real attachment and I
0:10:36feel I feel sad when any animal dies but
0:10:39I feel especially sad about this mmm-hmm
0:10:44wondering about those numbers for zoo
0:10:47animal transport like those seem like
0:10:50pretty high fatal numbers you said
0:10:52nineteen penguins went and three of them
0:10:54died in transit yeah it seems like a
0:10:56high percentage I was told that birds
0:10:58dying in transit is more common than say
0:11:01a gorilla right okay I have a somewhat
0:11:03like if you send 20 gorillas and you
0:11:05lose three of them it's really
0:11:06concerning I
0:11:07receive an autopsy report the zoo with
0:11:09all the details they haven't got it yet
0:11:11they've actually promised to give me a
0:11:12full briefing when they find out what
0:11:14happened they don't know exactly what
0:11:15happened themselves this is for real
0:11:17autopsy going to be done about this well
0:11:19there's some kind of report yeah
0:11:21apparently that has to happen I guess
0:11:23that makes sense that if you're
0:11:25transporting zoo animals back and forth
0:11:26the sending zoo is going to want to know
0:11:28the details it's just it just never
0:11:31occurred to me but it's serious it's
0:11:33very serious
0:11:34so I feel like I have to put this on
0:11:37record and fairness to the zoo because
0:11:39this is basically a publicity stunt gone
0:11:42terribly terribly wrong because of all
0:11:45the Penguins that could have died the
0:11:47one that like has this like really
0:11:48popular podcast following it and this
0:11:50like silly guy who made the big ruckus
0:11:53on Twitter and stuff mm-hmm
0:11:55I feel really sorry for them that they
0:11:57tried to do a good thing it's like blown
0:11:59up in their face and it's and it's made
0:12:01this penguin dying an even bigger deal
0:12:02than it would have been mm-hmm and I
0:12:04also want to say everyone has different
0:12:06views about the rights and wrongs of
0:12:08zoos and I can see all sides of the
0:12:10story but I do have to point out that
0:12:13the zoo does a lot for penguins the
0:12:16reason we were raising money for them is
0:12:17they have this special program will they
0:12:19send their experts to South Africa every
0:12:22year and they like rescue all these
0:12:24hatchlings and then hand reer them and
0:12:26release them back into the wild
0:12:28so like this zoo has an above-average
0:12:30interest in the welfare of South African
0:12:33penguins yeah so for us now to be doing
0:12:35a podcast about a penguin that they were
0:12:37transporting died I feel a bit sorry for
0:12:40them because they're try and do the
0:12:42right thing by penguins and it's kind of
0:12:44this has kind of gone a bit wrong so I
0:12:46feel like I should say that I also have
0:12:49taken lessons from it myself good and
0:12:51bad okay
0:12:53would it would have you learn really my
0:12:55first lesson is maybe be a bit more
0:12:57careful before you make a big ruckus on
0:12:59social media is love what do you mean
0:13:06because I was like oh this ends today
0:13:08and I was going in there all guns
0:13:10blazing and everyone was saying we can't
0:13:12wait to find out Brady what's the news
0:13:14and then suddenly I was like confronted
0:13:16by this horrible outcome mm-hmm and I
0:13:20didn't want to then like tweet
0:13:21or snapchat hey that the penguin has
0:13:23died right which is what had happened
0:13:25uh-huh so I kind of had to go quiet
0:13:28while I thought about it and that was
0:13:30just like getting people more and more
0:13:31fired up the suspense is killing us
0:13:33where's the penguin how is she maybe I
0:13:36played my hand a bit early on the on the
0:13:39social media side of things I can see
0:13:41how this particular time this worked out
0:13:43as an unfortunate outcome for you uh I
0:13:47don't think this is like a general
0:13:48lesson to learn from the situation like
0:13:51it is a lesson gray you know because
0:13:52this is not the first time this sort of
0:13:54thing has happened to me admittedly
0:13:56social media but like I remember this
0:13:58another thing that happened to me once
0:14:00twice in the course of a week I'd been
0:14:03trying to contact you know some of my
0:14:04academics around the university about
0:14:06making films and sometimes I just wander
0:14:08around the university and go to their
0:14:10offices just for a chat and I walked
0:14:12past a few of the offices of people I'd
0:14:14been emailing for a while and one of
0:14:15them I walked in and said hey how you're
0:14:17doing like jokey I was like why aren't
0:14:19you replying to my emails I emailed you
0:14:21like three or four times in the last few
0:14:22months what's going on and then he was
0:14:24like my mum died a few weeks ago and
0:14:27then I was like ah sorry and like that
0:14:33explains why you're not replying to my
0:14:34emails then so I was like maybe I should
0:14:36have been a bit more sensitive about not
0:14:38replying to my emails and then like a
0:14:40few days later the exact same thing
0:14:42happened with another academic and I
0:14:43made the same joke and again he'd had
0:14:45like I think it was a parent died as
0:14:47well so I don't know maybe I'm just
0:14:50unlucky perhaps there is a distinction
0:14:52to be drawn in the difference between
0:14:54the lack of Correspondence from a human
0:14:56being and the lack of Correspondence
0:14:57from a penguin it hadn't occurred to me
0:14:59that because of all that stuff that had
0:15:02been going on on reddit the idea that
0:15:04the penguin could have died had gone out
0:15:05of my head right right one never thinks
0:15:08of penguin mortality does one write
0:15:10until you have to face it directly I'm
0:15:12not like going through like you know the
0:15:14stages of grief or anything because it's
0:15:15just it's just penguin but I am also
0:15:17wondering whether I'm partly to blame
0:15:19because if I had done more that penguin
0:15:22in terms of coverage and publicity would
0:15:24it have become so valuable to the zoo
0:15:26that they would not have dared even
0:15:27Transporter like if it had become more
0:15:29famous did I not make it famous enough I
0:15:32think that's undeniable that is true
0:15:34if the penguin had been promoted more
0:15:37with updates about her weight and her
0:15:40health over time and and you had sent
0:15:43more people to the zoo through your
0:15:45efforts you could have saved her life do
0:15:47not think there's any way that isn't
0:15:48true like it has to be true that that's
0:15:51the case even if I just cold about it
0:15:53more often they would have thought
0:15:54because one of the things they were so
0:15:55sorry about was they were saying we're
0:15:57so sorry we didn't tell you it was being
0:15:58moved we probably should have told you
0:15:59but if I was someone who like you know
0:16:01called about it every month and stuff
0:16:03they would have known I was watching and
0:16:05maybe not had center so yeah that's true
0:16:07awful is true I think your negligence
0:16:09definitely does have a hand in this
0:16:10Brady I think there's I think there's no
0:16:12way around that
0:16:13by the way just to be clear I did say
0:16:15this earlier the zoo kind of did have to
0:16:18send penguins to tibula see this is how
0:16:20this is how Sue's work by the way like
0:16:23there's an overarching body that looks
0:16:25after breeding populations and what
0:16:26animals go where and if this body says
0:16:28you're sending animals here and there
0:16:30that's pretty much binding as long as
0:16:33where you're sending it is like a legit
0:16:34proper zoo and you and it was so yeah
0:16:37yeah that's totally understood I saw a
0:16:40few things on the reddit where people
0:16:41were actually discussing that about how
0:16:43I didn't realize that's video that
0:16:44there's like a it's like a meta su
0:16:46organization that directs the transport
0:16:49of animals around like you said for
0:16:50breeding populations against one of
0:16:52those things like it makes total sense
0:16:53once you think about it that that would
0:16:54exist it's in the interest of all zoos
0:16:57to mix their animals more than they
0:16:59would be mixing just within the zoo yes
0:17:02but yeah but yeah you can see like it
0:17:03becomes a kind of contract where there's
0:17:05meta organization directs the movement
0:17:07of animals around so okay I'm not I'm
0:17:09not holding the zoo in any blame at all
0:17:12I'm just saying that you're basically
0:17:14just blaming me yeah yeah that's that's
0:17:16exist to make it really clear it's not
0:17:18the zoo's fault if Brady had acted
0:17:20differently could things be different
0:17:22the answer is yes that's undeniable
0:17:25there's one more lesson from this okay
0:17:28this is a lesson to me kind of about
0:17:31journalism but also about you could you
0:17:33could talk about this in other aspects
0:17:35of life and it reminded me of lessons I
0:17:37learned in my early days and this I'm
0:17:39not making this part of our earlier
0:17:40discussions about the media and
0:17:41journalism this has nothing to do with
0:17:42any of that this is just a general thing
0:17:45about being a journalist okay and there
0:17:47is
0:17:48the best journalism always comes from
0:17:52getting off your butt and going to the
0:17:54place because I thought the problem had
0:17:57been solved by this reddit Facebook
0:17:59stuff and also I thought I'll probably
0:18:01get an answer from the press department
0:18:02eventually although it didn't look like
0:18:04I was doing it but really I didn't get
0:18:07to the bottom of things as terrible as
0:18:09it was until I just like turned up and
0:18:12gotten faces and started counting
0:18:14penguins and looking at numbers and like
0:18:16being there on the spot and making them
0:18:18actually come and see me and looking
0:18:20people in the eyes and having the
0:18:21discussion and it doesn't just apply to
0:18:23journalism applies to lots of other
0:18:25things in life like if you sit around
0:18:27and wait for stuff to get done by other
0:18:30people or nothing beats if it's feasible
0:18:35and possible going there and being there
0:18:37and being on the spot because you always
0:18:39find out more and you always get closer
0:18:43to the bottom of the things if you are
0:18:44like at the place the hello internet
0:18:47nation is indebted to your journalism on
0:18:50this particular issue really well I wish
0:18:54I wish I was the bearer of better news
0:18:56but that do you know what when I first
0:18:58started as a journalist you know I would
0:19:01interview and did lots of things over
0:19:02the phone because that's the way things
0:19:03work quite often but then often you need
0:19:05photographs to go with it and we would
0:19:07have these forms you would fill out and
0:19:09give to the photograph editor saying I
0:19:11need a picture of this or this place or
0:19:13this person and you'd organize it all
0:19:15and set it all up and then you'd fill
0:19:17out the form with the addresses and the
0:19:18phone numbers and the times and that and
0:19:20there was a box you would tick to say
0:19:22whether or not the journalist was going
0:19:23on the story or not whether the journals
0:19:25wanted to go with the photographer to
0:19:28sort of director or maybe you hadn't
0:19:29interviewed the person yet so you needed
0:19:31to be there so it was a yes or no and I
0:19:33would always tick no because I don't
0:19:36know maybe a little bit of laziness and
0:19:38a little bit of shyness you know I was I
0:19:39was still that younger journalist who
0:19:41was a bit who wasn't that confident I'll
0:19:44always take know and I remember one time
0:19:45the photo editor sort of took me to one
0:19:48side because I got along really well
0:19:49with him and he said you should go on
0:19:51some of these stories more often because
0:19:52it's good to go there and like see
0:19:55things and you know it'll make your
0:19:56stories better so then I started ticking
0:19:59yes more often and I would just go even
0:20:01though I'd spoken to these
0:20:02people on the phone often and I already
0:20:04knew the story I would go along just to
0:20:06be there for the photo shoot and I found
0:20:08that so valuable and so interesting and
0:20:11it always I always found it so mitt so
0:20:13much more amazing stuff and interesting
0:20:15stuff and like my stories became so much
0:20:17better by doing it that it just became
0:20:19my rule when I would take yes for
0:20:21everything like no matter what it was I
0:20:22just wanted to go and see the stuff and
0:20:24be part of the story it got to the point
0:20:26where a year or two later the photo
0:20:28editor pulled me aside and said do you
0:20:29actually have to go on all these stories
0:20:31because it's really inconvenient for me
0:20:32for the photographer's to always have to
0:20:34come back and pick you up and take you
0:20:35so it backfired on him but it was a
0:20:39really good lesson there's a really good
0:20:40lesson if you're doing anything and you
0:20:42feasibly can go there there's a lot to
0:20:45be said for I like that your enthusiasm
0:20:47was causing logistics problems for ya
0:20:50the organization that you're working for
0:20:51his like yeah okay buddy it's good to be
0:20:53enthusiastic but not this enthusiastic
0:20:56yeah we're just taking it and we're just
0:20:57taking a photograph of the person
0:20:59sitting at that desk do you have to be
0:21:00there yes I want to be there I could ask
0:21:02good query to do a ride-along once every
0:21:05couple months right but yeah it's not
0:21:06every day not twice a day not three
0:21:09times a day that's not what we were
0:21:10looking for yeah anyway I there we go
0:21:15CGP grey the lady penguin rest in peace
0:21:19rest in peace gone to that great rocky
0:21:22outcrop in the sky gone to a farm in
0:21:24upstate yeah I figured some I figured
0:21:27some rocky outcrop in the middle of the
0:21:29sea is the penguin equivalent of the
0:21:31farm no it's all the farm all the
0:21:33animals go to the farm together that's
0:21:35how that works that's what they could
0:21:37have done they could have put me on that
0:21:38bench and said
0:21:39CGP grey the penguin isn't here and
0:21:40isn't it Tbilisi she's gone to a special
0:21:43magical zoo for the firemen Tbilisi
0:21:47shall be we shall be running through the
0:21:49forest the happy penguin okay that
0:21:51doesn't make any sense don't question it
0:21:53too much man don't question it we're
0:21:54just telling you a story here we need to
0:21:56think of something to do about this gray
0:21:58I feel like it can't end here what do
0:22:02you mean I don't know I feel like this
0:22:03can't be the end of the story
0:22:05all stories come to an end and death is
0:22:07an ending I'm not sure what you're
0:22:10looking for here Brady yeah
0:22:12with those people who like that timing
0:22:15how long it takes
0:22:16death to come up in our podcast are
0:22:18gonna got a cracking opening opening for
0:22:21the Miss time don't we opening stories
0:22:23about that when I was thinking about how
0:22:25to tell the story like obviously I had
0:22:28to tell you and the listeners about this
0:22:30I was thinking do I tell it
0:22:32chronologically how it happened to me or
0:22:34do I just say it from the start look
0:22:36before I start the story who the penguin
0:22:39is dead and now here's how I found out
0:22:41because I was a bit worried as I told
0:22:43the story you'd be mr. jokey I Brady
0:22:45you're so funny and like you'd be
0:22:46laughing and stuff and then like I drop
0:22:48the bomb and then you'd feel bad about
0:22:50being jokey because that's what happened
0:22:52to me you know I was joking about it all
0:22:54the time and making a big joke at the
0:22:55whole thing yeah yucking it up on social
0:22:57media right right right right and check
0:22:59that you're gonna have to cache later no
0:23:02so I didn't want to put you in the same
0:23:04position but I felt like you should
0:23:06experience it as I experienced it I
0:23:08think there was the appropriate choice
0:23:10there breathing and you also had that
0:23:11moment that I had when they said
0:23:13actually no we want to talk to you
0:23:14somewhere else but yeah I know there's
0:23:17never good right there this ah ah okay
0:23:20whenever whenever people say they want
0:23:22to talk to you like how many times is
0:23:25that good news the answer is never right
0:23:27it's never good news and they literally
0:23:29took me somewhere where I could sit down
0:23:31yeah yeah if they want to talk to you
0:23:33and they also want to change locations
0:23:36that is never good right these just you
0:23:38just know you know something something
0:23:40bad is about to happen there so Marty
0:23:45black stump is ticking along there's
0:23:47been a lot of online investigations into
0:23:49the height of Marty black stump versus
0:23:51Telstra house people seem to be in in
0:23:54the same way they were relying on sort
0:23:55of redder and the internet to figure out
0:23:57what happened to the penguin they seem
0:23:59to be using sort of you know all this
0:24:01Google Earth and visualization stuff to
0:24:03settle the matter of which building is
0:24:06taller which I don't think is going to
0:24:08provide an adequate solution yeah all I
0:24:10want to know is if there's if there's
0:24:11somebody out there with I don't know
0:24:13what are those things people use like
0:24:15the little triangle things to measure
0:24:16this like the old a lot or something
0:24:18like yes okay so one of those things
0:24:19right yeah you see them in like old
0:24:21manuscripts that's what I want I want a
0:24:23dude with one of those measuring Heights
0:24:26in Adal
0:24:26that that's all we need I want sketches
0:24:29I want triangles
0:24:30I want trigonometry yeah parchment the
0:24:33sketches on a parchment would something
0:24:35like that that's that's a we near
0:24:37blueprints the thing that is crucial
0:24:39here Telstra house which claims to be
0:24:42one metre taller it does seem to make
0:24:44sense that would be one meter taller
0:24:46because it was built a lot later and why
0:24:48would you build a new building in
0:24:50Adelaide and not make it the tallest
0:24:52when you were so close
0:24:53you would chuck an extra meter on there
0:24:55just for bragging rights yeah of course
0:24:57even though it only held the title for
0:24:58one year before the other building came
0:25:00along but the problem is the mighty
0:25:03black stump has this antenna on top that
0:25:06Telstra house does not and the antenna
0:25:07clearly makes the mighty black stump
0:25:09taller if you include that and this
0:25:12leads to this can of worms about how do
0:25:14you define the height of a building and
0:25:17this is a huge issue there's a great
0:25:20Wikipedia article about it as there is
0:25:22about everything this is not a new
0:25:24debate this has been going on since they
0:25:27started building skyscrapers really from
0:25:29the moment the builders of the Chrysler
0:25:31Building put that cheeky spire on top
0:25:33that they hadn't told anyone about so
0:25:35that they could take top spot and they'd
0:25:36head the spire until the last minute
0:25:38like do you count antennas
0:25:40do you count spires is it from the
0:25:43architectural top of the building what's
0:25:45the difference between a spire and an
0:25:47antenna is that the highest level that
0:25:50people can actually habitate you're
0:25:52always a guy that has opinions if you
0:25:54were defining the height of a building
0:25:57what would you use is your cutoff point
0:26:00so thinking about this earlier today I
0:26:02think there's only two choices to go
0:26:04with hmm one is the ground height to the
0:26:11top of the structure including antennas
0:26:14or spires or whatever just anything
0:26:16that's physical anything that's physical
0:26:19I think that counts right like okay I
0:26:21think that's one measure to do is just
0:26:23like if a kid is asking how tall a
0:26:25building is I think that's their their
0:26:28idea the tallest point but I was
0:26:31thinking though I actually like the
0:26:34definition that it is
0:26:36it's not actually the top of the
0:26:38building it's the top most part of the
0:26:41building that is like where a person can
0:26:45stand that isn't maintenance right
0:26:48that's the usable part of the building
0:26:51that to me seems like a non Chiddy way
0:26:54to talk about what is the tallest
0:26:56structure I feel like those are the two
0:26:58things that I would go with like what is
0:27:00the the place at which someone can
0:27:02either have an office or an apartment at
0:27:04the top of this building or what is the
0:27:06actual tippy top of the building I think
0:27:07those are those are two not unreasonable
0:27:10ways to try to figure out what the
0:27:12tallest building is I hear a Brady sigh
0:27:16over there what are you thinking well
0:27:18it's fair enough what you're saying is
0:27:19fair enough but it just opens more cans
0:27:22of worms you know there's a big
0:27:24difference between that spire at the top
0:27:26of the Chrysler Building which is like a
0:27:28proper meaty structure and they're just
0:27:31bolting some token flagpole to the top
0:27:34to give yourself a few meters some
0:27:36rickety piece of wood in a you know in a
0:27:38pot I think now I think this way lies
0:27:42madness because you're right about that
0:27:44I know I know it Jimmy like the Chrysler
0:27:46Building is a great example
0:27:48it's like hollow on the inside isn't it
0:27:49it's just like a hat with the buildings
0:27:51wearing it's not a whole lot I think
0:27:53there is a difference between that and
0:27:55just sticking an antenna up as tall as
0:27:57it can possibly go but I think there's
0:28:00no meaningful way to try to come up with
0:28:02a way to say here's how we are going to
0:28:04distinguish essentially antenna from
0:28:08decorative adornments on the top of the
0:28:11building people do try by the way that
0:28:13there isn't a tent okay I'm sure you
0:28:15know I'm sure there is but I just think
0:28:17there's no there's no way that you can
0:28:19possibly get around that you always
0:28:22going to be rules lawyer ring about this
0:28:23whole thing maybe I'm wrong but I feel
0:28:25like the top most usable part of the
0:28:29building is a lot harder to rules lawyer
0:28:32your way around and I think it gets to
0:28:34the idea of why do we want tall
0:28:36buildings because they're fun to go up
0:28:38into yeah right there like there needs
0:28:41to be space for people at the top of
0:28:42these tall buildings otherwise what's
0:28:44the point of it so you would count
0:28:46observation decks yeah I would count an
0:28:48observation deck as
0:28:50top points like the Empire State
0:28:51Building the observation deck I think is
0:28:54that yeah is the highest part where
0:28:55people can go and that seems to me like
0:28:57I think that's where you should measure
0:28:58the height from for what the tallest
0:29:00building is I mean also it comes down
0:29:02here to whether we're counting things as
0:29:04buildings or structures because I think
0:29:06they're two different categories what
0:29:09you're talking about is a fair
0:29:10categorization of a tallest building
0:29:12maybe but not a tall structure okay you
0:29:16know so like a red so a radio masts
0:29:18could be a taller structure but it's not
0:29:20building obviously hmm okay all right
0:29:23yeah I think you have a point there
0:29:25right because the structure is going to
0:29:26be a place that doesn't have any human
0:29:28usable space on the inside of it there's
0:29:30a certain definition to our current
0:29:32member water is off the top of my head
0:29:33that precludes the CN tower from being a
0:29:37building but it is a structure even
0:29:39though it's got that lovely observation
0:29:41deck because so much of it is just Tower
0:29:44and lift mm-hmm to get you to what is
0:29:47basically just a floating observation
0:29:48deck that gets crossed off there's some
0:29:51definition of a building I don't know if
0:29:52it's a percentage of the structure that
0:29:54can be habited or you know I can already
0:29:57see here from the Wikipedia page right
0:29:59that they have three categories they
0:30:00have buildings structures and towers
0:30:02yeah so I guess I'm just going to make
0:30:05it up but I'm presuming then that our is
0:30:07a thing that a person can go up into so
0:30:10it has some limited amount of usable
0:30:11space versus the structure which
0:30:13probably has none like a radio tower but
0:30:16which is a structure within these
0:30:17definitions I'm gonna guess it's a mess
0:30:20but but and you know this is what
0:30:22happens when you deal with mighty mighty
0:30:24buildings like the mighty black stump
0:30:25these kind of questions need to be
0:30:27answered so there is some definition by
0:30:30which the mighty black stump is taller
0:30:32than Telstra house cuz it's got this
0:30:33wispy little antenna on top mmm but the
0:30:36jury's still out
0:30:37there's still a lot to go this is not
0:30:39the last you've heard of it but despite
0:30:41Grey's wishes once again I'm looking at
0:30:44these two buildings in the 3d rendering
0:30:48and it looks like Telstra house might
0:30:50have higher usable space but it's hard
0:30:52to tell are those just elevator banks on
0:30:55the top what is that I don't know who
0:30:56knows who knows someone needs to go out
0:30:59there in person to take care of them
0:31:01they using all this visualization
0:31:03software I don't
0:31:03what it is and what they've been doing
0:31:05is they've been like virtually going to
0:31:07the top of the mighty Black Star and
0:31:09when they do that they can like see onto
0:31:11the top of Telstra house and then they
0:31:13virtually go onto the top of Telstra
0:31:15house and you can't see onto the top of
0:31:17the mighty black stump so they're saying
0:31:19look it's proof it's proof but I don't
0:31:21even know what this software is like I
0:31:22don't know what's going on here it's not
0:31:24satisfactory to me they said this needs
0:31:27to be done I'm sorry this needs to be
0:31:28done in person this is not something
0:31:30that's going to be solved virtually
0:31:32google earth is not going to cut it for
0:31:34Brady that's what's happening here
0:31:35that's right I wasn't real earth in this
0:31:37particular case if the Black Star
0:31:41building manager had shown me the
0:31:42respect I deserved and had let me onto
0:31:45the roof I would be a lot closer to
0:31:47knowing the answer to this that's true
0:31:48that's true but he didn't let me up
0:31:50there so we don't know someone who had a
0:31:53lead has to be able to get access to
0:31:55those rooms I think that that's got to
0:31:57happen of course immediately following
0:31:59our discussion there was and there was a
0:32:01total lockdown of all Wikipedia pages
0:32:03pertaining to Adelaide buildings I'm
0:32:06getting a little bit upset about
0:32:07something and I've been dealing with
0:32:08this a lot on reddit and online but I
0:32:10want to have it on the podcast so that
0:32:12everyone has heard it the black stamp is
0:32:14a legitimate long term nickname for the
0:32:19Grenville Center it was cold that when I
0:32:21was growing up you can go through
0:32:23newspaper archives it's referred to all
0:32:25the time there is nothing wrong with the
0:32:27Wikipedia page referring to this
0:32:29building as the black stump the word
0:32:32mighty has been added by grey to be
0:32:35facetious no one calls up the mighty
0:32:37black stump in Adelaide that is a joke
0:32:39of course it should not be on the
0:32:40Wikipedia page but the black stump is
0:32:42completely legitimate and it's driving
0:32:45me crazy that people keep deleting
0:32:47references to the black stump saying oh
0:32:49this is just some hello internet joke
0:32:51and nuisance makers there is not
0:32:53nuisance making the black stump is 100%
0:32:56legitimate and it's driving me crazy
0:32:58that people now think it's some joke hmm
0:33:01and we do have a primary source for
0:33:04being called the black stump because we
0:33:07have a primary source of t-shirt sales
0:33:09that say is the mighty black stump
0:33:11I've gone and I've pointed people to old
0:33:14newspaper articles that predate hello
0:33:16Internet
0:33:17referring to it you know Real Estate
0:33:19Sale articles referring to the black
0:33:20stamp but I just I can't win this one
0:33:23it's this Wikipedia vandalism backfiring
0:33:26on me I blame you me with your stupid
0:33:28mighty yeah because you because you put
0:33:31my tea in there and have confused
0:33:32everything if I have caused some kind of
0:33:35Wikipedia trouble I'm terribly sorry
0:33:37I've never wanted to cause I would like
0:33:39to get it on record here that I have
0:33:40never wanted to cause Wikipedia trouble
0:33:42I have never encouraged Wikipedia
0:33:44trouble I'm just saying like I think we
0:33:46have a primary source that shows that
0:33:47it's called the mighty black stump the
0:33:49I've never seen a primary source for
0:33:51saying that it's called the black stump
0:33:52and the mighty black stump is just a
0:33:54better name but you know like I'm sure
0:33:55people will sort it out in the Wikipedia
0:33:56like that's how this works the truth
0:33:58will triumph Brady now last episode just
0:34:01very very quickly last episode we spoke
0:34:03about something that both you and I
0:34:05disliked and that is April Fool's Day
0:34:07mm-hmm I'm adding to that list from my
0:34:11and at least Star Wars day as another
0:34:13completely naff day that everyone jumps
0:34:16on and thinks they're the master or dead
0:34:19jokes and they look like complete idiots
0:34:21stop it with all your may the 4th be
0:34:23with your jokes stop your corporate
0:34:26people photoshopping Darth Vader into
0:34:28whatever your corporate picture is to
0:34:29make it look like you're down with the
0:34:30Star Wars fans you look silly Star Wars
0:34:33day was cool for a couple of years it
0:34:35was funny for a couple of years now it's
0:34:37been co-opted by the idiots and anyone
0:34:39else needs to get the hell out of Dodge
0:34:41whoa wow that's just my opinion
0:34:45you for die yeah yeah pretty intense
0:34:48about this what about you you think Star
0:34:51Wars days you know oh is the last best
0:34:54breathing I don't want to be lumped in
0:34:57with you as this grump
0:34:59who doesn't like fun That's not me I'm
0:35:01about the fun and a holiday based on a
0:35:05pun like man I couldn't imagine
0:35:07something that'd be more down for I
0:35:09think that's a fantastic idea and yeah
0:35:12it's great
0:35:13I love seeing corporate cross promotion
0:35:16I love seeing dad jokes I've loved
0:35:18everything about it so so don't get me
0:35:20wrong
0:35:20listening audience Brady is the
0:35:22curmudgeon here I'm I think it's great I
0:35:25think it's awesome is it purely the pun
0:35:28or is there some link to the data
0:35:31well like it wasn't the date that the
0:35:32film premiered or anything was it is
0:35:34purely the patent I think I think it's
0:35:36literally just a pun that's all it is
0:35:38Star Wars day Wikipedia yeah it's
0:35:41entirely just a pun it's just a pun
0:35:42based holiday I'm perfectly in favor of
0:35:45I think it's like a good pen yeah yeah
0:35:48it's my favorite it's it's the best I
0:35:50think Brady the problem is you just
0:35:52don't like things when they get too
0:35:54popular you like Star Wars when it was
0:35:56just you and your friends who knew about
0:35:58it yeah when when virtually no one had
0:36:01heard of Sarah was except me in my
0:36:02friends exactly just you and your
0:36:04friends back in the 70s had watched Star
0:36:07Wars right but now that everybody knows
0:36:08about it now you don't like it I think
0:36:10that's what's happening here
0:36:11yeah yeah I like Star Wars before it was
0:36:13popular so like that's like a day before
0:36:15it came out this episode is brought to
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0:36:38that's a hassle I was very happy to give
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0:37:46/hello thank you so much to Squarespace
0:37:49for supporting this show I saw something
0:37:52on the hello Internet reddit which I
0:37:55really liked Brady it was a picture of a
0:37:58guy installing his newbie house his new
0:38:02apiary wearing the nail and gear did you
0:38:06see this photo I'm looking at it now
0:38:08he's a handsome man
0:38:10it's a handsome man I have to say I gave
0:38:12him credit for not wearing the bee suit
0:38:14if you look closely in the photo he has
0:38:16bees all over him is that his real
0:38:18Bader's you got one of those babies oh
0:38:20it's good question ah let's enhance I'm
0:38:24enhancing click to enhance that is a bee
0:38:27beard Wow ok there's actually way more
0:38:29bees on here I first thought super
0:38:32impressive I wanted to mention this
0:38:34photo because this one made me really
0:38:37smile because you might think this is
0:38:40crazy I have this idea Brady that when I
0:38:44retire from the internet when I give up
0:38:47the tremendous volume of outputs that I
0:38:51create when I hang up my reddit user
0:38:54name and retire I have this like crazy
0:38:58idea that you know what I left you in my
0:39:00retirement
0:39:01I'd love to raise bees I don't know why
0:39:04I have this idea that like I'll get a
0:39:07bee house and I'll tend to the bees this
0:39:10is just like this little idea that I
0:39:11have as an old man hobby I love a cgb
0:39:15gray why that what of all the old man
0:39:19hobbies you could have like you know I
0:39:21mean you know if you'd said I want to
0:39:23build a train set I'd be like oh yeah
0:39:25I'm totally on board and then who
0:39:26doesn't want to be able to I can awesome
0:39:27train set I don't want to build an
0:39:29awesome train set now that seems that
0:39:31strikes me as incredibly tedious
0:39:32that sounds uninteresting why the bays
0:39:35then why the base good I have no idea
0:39:37this is one of these things that I'm
0:39:38just aware that okay so sometimes I
0:39:41watch these property shows I think I
0:39:43mentioned before on the podcast I
0:39:45watches property show called escape to
0:39:48the country where people who live in
0:39:49London decide they're going to go retire
0:39:51out in the country you've just melted my
0:39:54brain why have i melted your brain
0:39:55that's like a TV show you don't watch
0:39:58too
0:39:58hey how do you even watch that what
0:40:00device do you watch that on its you know
0:40:02you can you can find you can find the
0:40:04show I can't believe you watch escape to
0:40:06the country I'm so sure I've mentioned
0:40:08this before to you Bri this is a bigger
0:40:10shock to me than the penguin dying
0:40:11hahaha it's fantastic it's a great show
0:40:16it is a great show but I can't believe
0:40:18you watch it or like it it's a great
0:40:20show of essentially for pensioners my
0:40:22wife and I will make a cup of tea we'll
0:40:23put a blanket over our legs like we're
0:40:2580 years old and we'll watch escaped to
0:40:27the country and it's fantastic do you
0:40:30think you could ever live in a rural
0:40:31location with your base here's where I'm
0:40:33going with this right is because I watch
0:40:36this show and there's a funny thing that
0:40:38always happens on the show we're like a
0:40:39couple who's lived in London their
0:40:40entire life they're like oh we're gonna
0:40:41go retire and they'll be describing what
0:40:45they want to have in a house when they
0:40:47retire and they'll be like okay we want
0:40:50this feature we want that feature we
0:40:51want this other feature and then the
0:40:52husband will always say something dumb
0:40:54like oh and I want a really big yard
0:40:56because I'm going to manage goats right
0:40:59and there's like have you ever taken
0:41:01care of goats before he's like now
0:41:02that's just a thing that I want to do
0:41:03and I'm watching the show and I always
0:41:05feel like what an idiot like this this
0:41:07guy thinks he's going to be managing a
0:41:08herd of goats in his retirement like
0:41:10that's a disaster like we all know how
0:41:12this is going to end
0:41:13goats roaming the country free once
0:41:15they've escaped from his backyard right
0:41:17or if they're all gonna die like who
0:41:19knows it's just not going to end well
0:41:20like is idiot has never raised goats
0:41:22this is what he things he's want to do
0:41:23but like I have this same crazy idea in
0:41:26my head like at some point in my future
0:41:28I'm gonna be raising bees and I don't
0:41:30know why I don't know why I have it
0:41:31there Brady but it's just like it's this
0:41:33idea my old man hobby and it's a
0:41:36contradiction because I'm aware that I
0:41:38am totally disdainful of other people
0:41:40who on a TV show that I watch have
0:41:41essentially the same idea for their
0:41:43retirement and I'm like Otto's idiots
0:41:45right but now but me this somehow feels
0:41:47different I think this is gonna happen
0:41:48at some point Brady do you like honey
0:41:50yeah it's good honey's good are you
0:41:53allergic to bass ah seem like you would
0:41:56be do I that's a good question I've been
0:41:59stung but wait why do we why does it
0:42:01seem like I would be allergic to bees
0:42:02how can someone seem like they're
0:42:03allergic to bees
0:42:04I don't know you just seem like an
0:42:06allergic kind of guy oh yeah like all
0:42:11kinds of things I should just be
0:42:12allergic to them this is the way it
0:42:13seems let's just the vibe I get like you
0:42:16don't look sickly or anything but you
0:42:17just I get an allergic vibe from you
0:42:19okay
0:42:20yeah I've been stung by bees as a kid
0:42:22okay can you get allergic later in life
0:42:25I don't know I have no idea do you wanna
0:42:27hear my base tongue story of course you
0:42:29have a bee stung story tell me really I
0:42:31grew up with a swimming pool in
0:42:33Australia my parents had a swimming pool
0:42:35so my sister and I had a swimming pool
0:42:37by default and I remember one day my mum
0:42:39took us to the shops and bought us lots
0:42:42of fun stuff for the pool like
0:42:44inflatable stuff and these big plastic
0:42:46oars and things like that so we were
0:42:48going to have like the time of our life
0:42:49playing with them in the pool but for
0:42:52some reason I was going to go to my
0:42:53friend's house first to play cricket my
0:42:56sister and I because were little kids
0:42:57we'll funny about you know not getting
0:42:59to play with the toys first so we made a
0:43:01pet that when I got back we would play
0:43:03with the toys together one of us
0:43:05wouldn't get to enjoy the toys before
0:43:07the other one and my sister who's a lot
0:43:09just completely sweet just agreed to
0:43:11that and said yes that's fine so we put
0:43:14all the toys around the pole and said
0:43:16we'll play with them when I get home but
0:43:17first I'm going to go over to my mates
0:43:18house to play cricket and we were
0:43:20playing cricket and then after a while I
0:43:21said to my mates we've got all these
0:43:22awesome new toys in the pool my sister
0:43:25thinks I'm going to play with them with
0:43:26her but why don't we put our bathers on
0:43:28secretly and run around and go and play
0:43:30with them before she gets the chance
0:43:31because that would be like you know just
0:43:33to just a tormentor because that was
0:43:35what brothers do to sisters right yes so
0:43:37we changed into obey this and my sister
0:43:39was like watching TV in like a living
0:43:41room that looked out over the pole and
0:43:42we came storming into the backyard
0:43:44nobody was going whoo-hoo-hoo and we
0:43:46picked up all the inflatables and one of
0:43:48the oars was sitting by the side of the
0:43:50pool and I threw the inflatable in and
0:43:52picked up the yaw and jumped into the
0:43:54pool with the or ready to go rowing and
0:43:57my sister came into the backyard crying
0:43:58because what was terrible thing we were
0:44:01doing to her and tormenting her and
0:44:02suddenly I had this tremendous pain in
0:44:05my hand and I'd been stung by a bee and
0:44:09that was on the or and it turns out
0:44:12while I was playing cricket my sister
0:44:13had rescued a bee from the pole using
0:44:16the oar and had like fished it out and
0:44:19let it be or by the side of the pole
0:44:21because she's so humane
0:44:22she wanted the beach you know dry out
0:44:24and fly away right so when I'd come
0:44:25running and picked up the oil from the
0:44:27side of the pool my hands straight on
0:44:29the B and got stung that's how I got my
0:44:32I learned my lesson I got my comeuppance
0:44:33Oh believe you did that
0:44:36oh I was getting all angry after what I
0:44:38just done there so you learned to never
0:44:41torment your sister again isn't how that
0:44:43works that was the last day I ever
0:44:44tormented her ever that was the last day
0:44:46that's good yeah that's good I'm glad
0:44:47you learned that lesson it weren't
0:44:49pretty yeah my stepfather's a beekeeper
0:44:54oh yeah really hmm interesting I've
0:44:57never gone and seen his bees or hives he
0:44:59kept them on another property away from
0:45:01the house when I was growing up and yeah
0:45:03but he would sometimes go away and tend
0:45:05to his bees see even I like just the
0:45:07idea of it like it just sounds romantic
0:45:08like Oh tending to bees huh yeah of
0:45:10course that sounds like a great thing to
0:45:11do I've caught myself sometimes reading
0:45:13about how to keep hives and like what
0:45:15the hell am i doing right it's like I
0:45:17can't I can't help myself this is
0:45:19definitely one of the strangest things
0:45:21that I find my mind like vaguely drawn
0:45:24to every once in a while you can't leave
0:45:26them alone gray you could get an
0:45:27allotment somewhere and just go once a
0:45:29week just go check on them leave the
0:45:31allotment people to deal with life of
0:45:33ease that Ferguson I guess some around
0:45:36the country I can see why that would
0:45:39appeal to you because there's like you
0:45:40know because bees are all about
0:45:41organization and colonies and all those
0:45:44sort of things that you find so
0:45:45interesting you know organizational
0:45:46structures so being like the god of some
0:45:49organization I would quite a people to
0:45:51that's what I'm doing it for it's the
0:45:52power trip yeah that is I am the god of
0:45:56this hive you nailed afraid of yeah
0:46:00you've gotten to the core of my they're
0:46:03interested obviously I don't think you
0:46:05want to do it to be the god of bees but
0:46:07I can see why like you know studying and
0:46:09looking at it would be interesting to
0:46:11you I can see why I'd be an interesting
0:46:12hobby tea yeah it's just that just it
0:46:14captures my attention what are you going
0:46:17to do in your retirement breeding I
0:46:18would like to spend more time in
0:46:20mountains and walking up I'd like to be
0:46:22one of those people who like goes to
0:46:23Scotland and captures Monroe's you know
0:46:26how there are people who try and get to
0:46:27every peak in Scotland and stuff like
0:46:29that I would like to climb Hills in your
0:46:32retirement yeah how people do it it's
0:46:35not like you know cramp
0:46:36and an ice axe and stuff it's just okay
0:46:38Pleasant walks up Scottish Hills okay
0:46:42alright basically tell me that you're
0:46:44gonna be you're gonna be some budding
0:46:45peaks in your environment which seemed a
0:46:47little bit like I've got bad news for
0:46:49you yeah I think I would like to do that
0:46:52I like hills and mountains I like that I
0:46:57think that's that's a romantic image of
0:46:58a Brady when the Brady retires you'll
0:47:01see him on the Scottish hills in the
0:47:04distance walking around
0:47:06that's a Brady will do bagging another
0:47:09peak yeah bagging my list crossing it
0:47:11off my list I like there I like taking a
0:47:14pointing selfie at the top pointing to
0:47:16the the style or whatever's up there the
0:47:18trig point will say I like this will
0:47:21have relaxing retirements Brady mmm
0:47:23maybe maybe this is a good point to move
0:47:26on to Mount Everest then as you know I
0:47:27love talking about Mount Everest it is
0:47:29as we are recording at the moment we're
0:47:32just coming into the Everest climbing
0:47:33season it should be more accurately
0:47:35described as the Everest death season
0:47:38because that's when we start here start
0:47:40hearing all the stories about people
0:47:41dying at Mount Everest which seems to
0:47:42becoming more and more common more and
0:47:46more people go every year right isn't
0:47:47that how that works is it like a busy
0:47:49place now Everest
0:47:50all the tourists have ruined it there's
0:47:52a Starbucks at base camp there's not a
0:47:55stat bucket there's very good Wi-Fi at
0:47:56base camp I give it time not be a
0:47:58Starbucks there eventually right there's
0:48:00better phone reception at base camp than
0:48:01where I live that's for sure that is
0:48:03true you live in the center of a black
0:48:05hole of reception that can be crazy
0:48:06every time my droughts I'm like it feels
0:48:08like I'm in the third world as far as my
0:48:10phone is concerned like why can't I get
0:48:11no signal in your house it's crazy
0:48:14making a good place for Bay's though out
0:48:18here but the first death that was
0:48:20reported was not of a tourist or some
0:48:24amateur it was actually as far as
0:48:26Mountaineers go it was a guy who is
0:48:28probably the superstar of mountaineering
0:48:31at the moment is a guy called Ueli Steck
0:48:34or his nicknames the swiss machine and
0:48:37he's like a really famous mountaineer
0:48:39he's really good at climbing Peaks
0:48:40quickly and he was getting ready to try
0:48:43and do an unusual Everest climb this
0:48:46season and he was just kind of
0:48:47acclimatizing and
0:48:49warming up sort of sort of thing and he
0:48:52was actually just going up a little side
0:48:53peak called nutsy it's funny Mount
0:48:57Everest to my mind is really three
0:48:59mountains kind of joined together
0:49:01Everest
0:49:02lot C and nutsy and yet they all are
0:49:05treated separately and lot C in fact is
0:49:07the fourth highest mountain in the world
0:49:08but actually I just it's really just
0:49:10like a southern peak of Everest hmm
0:49:12anyway so there's these three sort of
0:49:14mountains join together they form like a
0:49:16little cradle around this western room
0:49:18and he was sort of doing an
0:49:21acclimatization climb on nutsy and has
0:49:24fallen to his death which is terribly
0:49:27sad thing to have happened but an
0:49:29interesting thing about him is you ly
0:49:30stick is actually the star of my
0:49:33all-time favorite YouTube video which I
0:49:37actually have since found out I think
0:49:38maybe a little bit of a free boot but
0:49:40it's been free booted so much now I
0:49:42don't really know what to say this it's
0:49:43a clip from a longer film where he's
0:49:46climbing the Eiger in record time and
0:49:49it's got a really cool song that I
0:49:51really love to it as well this is the
0:49:53video that you sent to me before the
0:49:55show started of this again thing didn't
0:49:58even occur to me but obviously there's
0:50:00going to be records for how fast people
0:50:03can summit yes and it seems like that
0:50:06that was this guy specialty when I'm
0:50:08watching this video it starts off by
0:50:09he's saying oh you want to go quickly
0:50:11but you can't make any mistakes
0:50:13yeah and I'm just thinking like of
0:50:14course that's any kind of climb you want
0:50:16to get up quickly because you want to
0:50:17get to the top or you want this
0:50:19experience to be completed it didn't
0:50:22occur to me that people would be racing
0:50:25for time which just seems so crazy to me
0:50:28it's that you're doing an already
0:50:30dangerous thing and you're turning it
0:50:33into a vertical race but the video is
0:50:37very impressive to see him moving up the
0:50:40mountain at quite a rapid pace it's an
0:50:43impressive little video and I'll put it
0:50:44in the show notes I'm pretty sure it's
0:50:46the North Face of the Eiger which is
0:50:48that the famous Face of the Eiger and is
0:50:50also you always hear about North Face I
0:50:52think that must come from the North Face
0:50:53of the Eiger it's the famous difficult
0:50:55climb he would go up with you know very
0:50:58little equipment and super super fast so
0:51:01when I saw that this person had died
0:51:03oh that's the guy in that video isn't it
0:51:05and I went back and sure enough so so
0:51:07that was sad news that video is like
0:51:10quite beautiful though isn't it like did
0:51:12what did you think watching that video
0:51:14like it's beautifully filmed it must be
0:51:16really quite breathtaking to be in these
0:51:19locations and and that that shot of him
0:51:21right as he's like walking along the
0:51:24crest of the mountain right toward
0:51:26towards the peak it says I can't imagine
0:51:27what that experience is like to have the
0:51:31mountain plummeting down on on either
0:51:33side of you as you're as you're walking
0:51:34along this Ridge towards the top like it
0:51:36must be an amazing experience well I'm
0:51:38glad you said that that leads me to the
0:51:40thing that this has had be thinking over
0:51:42the last week or so obviously he died
0:51:45falling off a mountain and when that
0:51:47happens it's like well that's just a
0:51:49total tragedy but he was a guy who was
0:51:52very aware of the risk he talked a lot
0:51:53about the risks of what he did he wasn't
0:51:55like a cowboy he knew he was doing a
0:51:57risky thing and he obviously made this
0:52:00decision that it was worth it and when
0:52:03you see that video and you see the sorts
0:52:04of things he was experiencing it did
0:52:07make me think about how do you make this
0:52:09calculus of risk in your life versus
0:52:13getting to experience that sort of
0:52:14amazing stuff astronauts who walk go to
0:52:17the moon people who do amazing things
0:52:19and see amazing things but risk their
0:52:21life doing it and like how does one make
0:52:24that decision and it's very easy you
0:52:26know the week after the person dies to
0:52:28say well he made the wrong decision
0:52:29because he's died at the age of 40 but
0:52:31like I don't know I kind of think I get
0:52:34why you were doing it but I think it was
0:52:35and I kind of think it was worth the
0:52:37risk
0:52:38he you know he got to see and do lots of
0:52:40amazing things that you and I will never
0:52:43get to experience he got to experience
0:52:44what it's like to go up that snow field
0:52:47at the top of the Eiger on your own
0:52:48after having just climbed the North Face
0:52:50and that's pretty amazing stuff and I
0:52:52guess you could say what counts for
0:52:53nothing when you've died but I've been
0:52:55thinking a lot about that calculus to
0:52:57the last week or so because of his death
0:52:58well we're all dust in the end Brady
0:53:00like that doesn't change things but I
0:53:02don't think a guy like this makes these
0:53:04calculations I think people like this
0:53:06are I mean this in the best possible way
0:53:09I think they're total freaks
0:53:11I think someone like this is
0:53:15they're not doing any kind of like risk
0:53:17reward calculation and feeling like I'll
0:53:19see amazing things if I do this very
0:53:21dangerous thing I think this is just a
0:53:22person who was more or less born to do a
0:53:25very extreme thing and you probably
0:53:27couldn't possibly stop them whenever you
0:53:30see people doing like really extreme
0:53:32sports or or even things like astronauts
0:53:35all right like someone becomes an
0:53:36astronaut like those people are just
0:53:38such extremely driven people as to be
0:53:43such a small percentage of the human
0:53:45population that it's it's just like of
0:53:47course you were going to do something I
0:53:49don't think this is a calculation as
0:53:51happens in the human population like
0:53:54there's going to be somebody who wants
0:53:55to do this sort of thing they almost
0:53:58can't help themselves I think I think
0:53:59that's the way that works out okay is
0:54:02that not what you want to hear Brady no
0:54:04I mean yeah it makes sense um but I mean
0:54:07I feel like I make the calculations like
0:54:08I just I've gone to every Space Camp a
0:54:11couple of times you know despite this
0:54:13dicey Airport that some people are a bit
0:54:15scared of and walking at the altitude
0:54:17because I thought you know I waited up
0:54:20and my desire to see this place and go
0:54:22there was greater than mmm my fear that
0:54:24you know I'd come to an untimely end but
0:54:27on the other hand I really want to go
0:54:28and see k2 and there's like a trip that
0:54:31I've been looking into to go there
0:54:33but it does involve going through a few
0:54:35places that are not considered very safe
0:54:36for sort of political reasons and I've
0:54:40been put off that and I've decided not
0:54:41to do that at the moment because I don't
0:54:43think it's worth it you know when I've
0:54:45weighed everything up so I feel like I
0:54:47do make those decisions and I just
0:54:49wonder yeah but precisely precisely you
0:54:52making those decisions is the reason
0:54:54that you're not doing speed runs up
0:54:56Mount Everest right that's precisely
0:54:59what I'm saying right as I like I don't
0:55:01think that there's another person who's
0:55:02doing the calculus in the other way like
0:55:04yes no I think this is gonna be worth it
0:55:06I think someone like this is just like I
0:55:08got a client like I gotta climb
0:55:09mountains fast and I just I don't know
0:55:11why but I just have to do it like I
0:55:13think that's what this is so you think
0:55:15when he would do tall I know you haven't
0:55:17followed his career or read interviews
0:55:19with him but you think when he would do
0:55:20talk about you know I'm aware of the
0:55:22risks and I weigh things up you think
0:55:24that's just lip service and really he
0:55:26just had this drive that was
0:55:28all-consuming
0:55:29yeah lips lip service isn't exactly
0:55:32right but it's like I just think that
0:55:33the like the way the person's brain is
0:55:36set up is doing this calculation in a
0:55:39very different way than anybody else
0:55:40would do it that's what I mean is like
0:55:42the adrenaline reward wired in his brain
0:55:45is like way higher than it would be for
0:55:48somebody else right and it's also a
0:55:50person who's probably had like just the
0:55:52right experiences to be this sort of
0:55:55person so that's what I mean by like
0:55:57people who do this kind of stuff are
0:55:59freaks in a particular way I often use
0:56:04this example of like like Richard
0:56:06Branson as a business person who I think
0:56:09is this similar thing he's like oh he's
0:56:11like a broken human being but he's
0:56:13broken in such a way that he can't stop
0:56:16starting businesses I think it's just
0:56:18things like kind of hardwired into him
0:56:19it's not a thing that's about whenever
0:56:22you're looking at anybody who's in like
0:56:23the top point Oh 1% of people in any
0:56:25category you just it's crazy to think
0:56:28that they'd be like a normal person
0:56:30who's just decided to do something else
0:56:32like I think all of those people are
0:56:34sort of freaks who can't help themselves
0:56:37that's why like you're saying they're
0:56:39thinking about all the political
0:56:40problems and wherever I need to fly
0:56:41through to get to k2 like yeah that's
0:56:42why you're not that's why you're not
0:56:44climbing up k2 I mean maybe in your
0:56:46retirement brain yeah you have more time
0:56:47to it you'll you'll do things a little
0:56:49bit differently but that's kind of my
0:56:51take on it like I just don't think these
0:56:52are normal people I think like
0:56:54definitionally they have to not be
0:56:56normal people he was the same age as me
0:56:58oh really
0:56:59and he twice won this award which is
0:57:02like the Oscars of mountaineering I like
0:57:04that there's like mountaineering has
0:57:05this rewarded for you how does that even
0:57:06mean the Oscars of mountaineering that
0:57:08doesn't make any sense I can't pronounce
0:57:10that the payload or which French for the
0:57:14golden ice axe the annual mountaineering
0:57:16award given by the French magazine
0:57:17Montag's I don't understand how that
0:57:20could work I think it's if you do
0:57:23something that year that's like
0:57:24pioneering lucky you know you piety or
0:57:26some new route or you do you climb
0:57:28something in a new way that hasn't been
0:57:30done before it's like I don't know I'm
0:57:33trying to I'm trying to get a nice
0:57:35little precis of what it's given for but
0:57:36I can't really find it anyway
0:57:39there has been another death at base
0:57:41camp he was attempting to become the
0:57:44oldest man to climb Everest he had been
0:57:47the oldest man before his record had
0:57:50been taken from him so he was trying to
0:57:52get it back and he was 85 and he died
0:57:56bassist here he died he was Nepalese so
0:57:59he was quite he was quite good at
0:58:01altitude but he died at base camp they
0:58:04think of a heart attack which you know
0:58:07again very sad hard to be completely
0:58:09shocked when someone really old dies
0:58:11trying to climb the highest mountain in
0:58:13the world yeah I'm not surprised when 85
0:58:16year old man dies of a heart attack at
0:58:17Everest base camp
0:58:19that's not exactly shocking news no this
0:58:22is the thing I wanted to ask you about
0:58:23was that the authorities now in Nepal
0:58:27are considering an age limit on people
0:58:30climbing Everest you have to be over 16
0:58:32to be allowed to climb Everest to get a
0:58:34permit they're now considering putting a
0:58:36limit on and for some reason I'm not
0:58:39exactly sure why I've got a theory why
0:58:41but I don't know they're thinking of
0:58:42setting the limit as 76 so okay I need
0:58:49to know your theory is what why do you
0:58:50think 76 this Nepalese guy that would
0:58:53held the record before did climber at
0:58:57the age of 76 so I wonder if maybe
0:58:59they're using that could the record know
0:59:01is 80 a Japanese guy who was 80 broke
0:59:04the REC broke the record but this this
0:59:07Nepalese guy that used to have the
0:59:08record was 76 when he did it so I wonder
0:59:10if maybe that number is being used
0:59:12somehow there could be other reasons I
0:59:14don't know but what do you think about
0:59:15setting an age limit on climbing Mount
0:59:18Everest because you're all into like you
0:59:20know freedom and people can do what they
0:59:22want yeah stuff that seems crazy I mean
0:59:24I there's a thing that I don't like
0:59:26which is rules for what I imagine are
0:59:28really rare circumstances how many
0:59:30people over 65 are trying to climb
0:59:32Everest every year how many people can
0:59:35that possibly be I'm imagining it's not
0:59:37a huge number and it's like if if
0:59:40someone someone who is older wants to
0:59:42try to climb Everest and presumably you
0:59:46know you have to sign some waiver or
0:59:47whatever be like yeah I know I'm
0:59:49climbing Everest I know is going to be
0:59:50dangerous like I don't I don't like this
0:59:52kind of stuff
0:59:53like why what what is the point of this
0:59:56to stop people from dying on Everest
0:59:58it's like well it seems like lots of
0:59:59people
0:59:59people
1:00:00well died on Everest what difference
1:00:01does it make if they dive they're old
1:00:02well I can give you a point if you want
1:00:04one just to make the argument and that
1:00:06is when people get into strife on
1:00:08Everest that actually can cause a lot of
1:00:11other people strife because inevitably
1:00:13sometimes they'll try to rescue them
1:00:15it's very costly to try and rescue
1:00:17people people can lose their life trying
1:00:20to help other people who are losing
1:00:21their life so getting more people on the
1:00:24mountain who are incredibly likely to
1:00:26get into strife has that implication you
1:00:30know if you send someone up there who's
1:00:31almost definitely going to get
1:00:32themselves into trouble and then
1:00:34everyone else is going to have to try to
1:00:35save them suddenly you're risking a
1:00:36whole bunch of other lives so that's
1:00:38that's an argument I have a question for
1:00:40you because I don't I don't know is
1:00:42there some kind of qualification that
1:00:43you need to do to climb Mount Everest
1:00:45do you need to prove yourself physically
1:00:48in some way I actually do not know the
1:00:50answer to that famously that people
1:00:52complain that you know any old tourist
1:00:54can get dragged to the top practically
1:00:56by their guides but I don't know how
1:00:59much that's an exaggeration and you have
1:01:00to prove some kind of ability I imagine
1:01:04most of the companies that help you get
1:01:05to the top of Everest would reply and
1:01:07say yes we have a vetting process we
1:01:09don't take any Tom Dick or Harry up
1:01:11there how stringent that is I don't know
1:01:15and I don't know I don't know that the
1:01:17answer is I don't know I guess I mean
1:01:18like what I'm wondering is like okay
1:01:20let's say I go out and I buy some boots
1:01:21and then I fly to Nepal and I all right
1:01:23I'm walking up that mountain with what's
1:01:25gonna stop me from doing that you would
1:01:26have to get a permit from the government
1:01:28okay to go above a certain height so if
1:01:30you are not doing it with a company and
1:01:31you're just going on your own right I
1:01:33don't know how easy it is to get permits
1:01:37for that and that I don't know what the
1:01:38government would require from you I
1:01:40don't know how they check so there
1:01:42exists some sort of permit yes to go
1:01:44above a certain height like I went to
1:01:46base camp if I when I was there I sat or
1:01:48I think I got the kubu ice fault and see
1:01:50how far I can get I would be breaking
1:01:51the law okay like that was as far as I'm
1:01:53allowed to go without a permit right and
1:01:55then the Everest police would grab you
1:01:57when they bridge whenever is Jail okay
1:01:58and the permits are super expensive all
1:02:02right my feeling and this is whatever
1:02:05you need to get the permit like that
1:02:06that should I just don't like this
1:02:08artificial like for your own good rule I
1:02:12would be totally fine if
1:02:13there was like Oh as part of the permit
1:02:15process when you arrived in Nepal
1:02:17there's a exercise room and you have to
1:02:20be able to complete a certain number of
1:02:21physical tasks to demonstrate that
1:02:23you're able to do this right yeah and I
1:02:25was like that's that's fine that's
1:02:26totally fine like I wouldn't have any
1:02:28problem with that I don't like the age
1:02:31limit seems to be arbitrary yeah it
1:02:33seems a bit arbitrary right but it's
1:02:35like if you have to go into a room and
1:02:36you have to be able to do 100 pushups
1:02:37yeah and if you can't do 100 pushups
1:02:39they don't let you climb the mountain
1:02:41yeah that seems fine right I would be
1:02:44okay with that if a bunch of pensioners
1:02:46want to freeze to death on Mount Everest
1:02:48thumbs up from greater that that's fine
1:02:51as someone who's a little bit fascinated
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1:03:45jaqen had great access to all the main
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1:04:07audiobooks go to audible.com slash hello
1:04:10Internet to sign on for a free trial
1:04:12that URL was handy for us too because
1:04:15they'll know you came from the podcast
1:04:17that's audible.com slash hello Internet
1:04:20hello internet or one word and enjoy a
1:04:23man on the moon as much as I did or if
1:04:25that's not your cup of tea you can
1:04:27choose any
1:04:27other title as your freebie I finally
1:04:31met someone who made a strong case for
1:04:32the Apple watch
1:04:33really I almost feel a little bit
1:04:35insulted by the way you started this
1:04:36conversation because I feel like how
1:04:38many times have we discussed here we've
1:04:39discussed this many times Gray has often
1:04:41over dinner and over a drink
1:04:43you know women not podcasting I
1:04:45sometimes say to gray gray sell me on
1:04:47the Apple watch and he tells me why he
1:04:49likes it how it fits in with his life I
1:04:51understand the logic of the things that
1:04:54gray says the honey makes sense and like
1:04:57okay you know if that's if that's how
1:05:00your brain works and that's what you
1:05:01want I can get it but the case you make
1:05:04never seems compelling enough to me it
1:05:06doesn't it just never lands and they're
1:05:08really like like even in your case I
1:05:10think the things you're saying it helps
1:05:13you with don't seem strong enough to me
1:05:15for what I think the pleasure I imagine
1:05:17you could get from having like a nicer
1:05:19watch that's just me that's just me no
1:05:22it is like I wanted to get you on record
1:05:24for that because I do always think it's
1:05:26funny because it's it's not just that
1:05:27you find my reasons unconvincing for you
1:05:30you find my reasons unconvincing for me
1:05:33yeah I kind of play I kind of do I can't
1:05:35I mean obviously it's your decision and
1:05:37obviously the case is compelling enough
1:05:39because you wear an Apple watch and you
1:05:40don't wear the other watch but I feel
1:05:42almost a bit I know it sounds really
1:05:43arrogant but I feel almost like if only
1:05:45you knew but I know like I know yeah we
1:05:49have is like I can see it in your little
1:05:50baby eyes yeah but you're thinking like
1:05:52Oh gray I know better than you on this
1:05:55topic and if only I get that's how I
1:05:58feel that's how I feel but I spoke to
1:06:00someone the other day thinking it would
1:06:01the discussion would go the same way and
1:06:03at the end of it I was like now okay you
1:06:05should have an Apple watch okay I have
1:06:08to know what is this argument well he
1:06:10was the person driving me to the airport
1:06:12okay so he's our like a car driver
1:06:15he runs a car service for a living and
1:06:18he used to have nice watches and then it
1:06:23was an Apple watch tumbler why do you
1:06:24why do you wear the Apple watch tell me
1:06:25and the two reasons that seemed
1:06:28completely compelling to me and they
1:06:30were both relating to his work one is
1:06:33he's always driving and just being able
1:06:36to fix his wrist while still holding the
1:06:38steering wheel to see what's going on
1:06:40is a strong case as opposed to fishing a
1:06:42phone out which is not only dangerous
1:06:44but it's illegal mm-hmm and I don't want
1:06:46any driver fishing their telephone out
1:06:48and checking their phone all the time
1:06:49but he can just flick his wrist at the
1:06:51wheel and he's driving all day long row
1:06:53so but the second part of that is is the
1:06:57business case he's self-employed he
1:06:59needs to get bookings it's an industry
1:07:01where booking cars I'm like this if I
1:07:04try to book a car with someone and they
1:07:05don't get back to me really quickly
1:07:07I'll just book one with someone else
1:07:08because I want to get it done so he
1:07:10can't afford to miss opportunities so he
1:07:14needs notifications to him are so
1:07:17important and he's driving all the time
1:07:19so being notified every time an email
1:07:22comes in from someone who might want to
1:07:24book him seems really compelling and
1:07:27like it would start to hurt his business
1:07:29if he was missing those messages those
1:07:31emails and those opportunities so the
1:07:33fact he's always driving combined with
1:07:36his really really compelling need for
1:07:39notifications which I think's much
1:07:41stronger than your need for
1:07:42notifications as you've told me he sold
1:07:44me on and I was like all right I still
1:07:46think your watch looks a bit Nath
1:07:48but I see why you're wearing it it
1:07:53sounds like you're just making a case
1:07:54for distracted driving that's what it
1:07:55sounds like that's like a prayer so I'm
1:07:57listening this is like this guy doesn't
1:07:59need an Apple watch that the all I'm
1:08:00hearing is like I'd be trying to talk
1:08:02this guy out of his Apple watch that
1:08:03sounds it's like oh great now I've got a
1:08:05guy who's looking at his watch a hundred
1:08:07times while he's driving this is no good
1:08:08hey dude look at his watch once the
1:08:10whole trip but I was soda I was Arthur
1:08:12okay I can't visit the worst argument in
1:08:15the world and this is what you feel like
1:08:16you finally see someone has a compelling
1:08:18reason to use the Apple watch I can't
1:08:20believe this no because you are like a
1:08:22bit
1:08:22mumsy about safety you're thinking mom
1:08:24say something something that is this
1:08:26slanderous there's a slanderous
1:08:28accusation where you are a bit you are a
1:08:30bit of a little you're a bit careful so
1:08:32I think so when I tell this story you're
1:08:34set you're seeing the horror of someone
1:08:36looking at their watchin crashing
1:08:37whereas I see more just a glance oh
1:08:40that's something I need to deal with and
1:08:42I will you know at the next petrol
1:08:44station I don't see it as a safety
1:08:46concern but I can see how the gray eyes
1:08:49of safety are seeing it somewhat
1:08:51differently he could just he could just
1:08:53check his phone at the pet
1:08:54no station instead this is a keg I feel
1:08:56infuriated that this is the argument you
1:08:58feel like is landed for you for an Apple
1:09:00watch this is crazy this is crazy
1:09:02Wow I think people using their phones
1:09:04while driving is like really really bad
1:09:06yeah of course and at least this is a
1:09:08bit safer and you're never going to stop
1:09:11people connecting while driving you just
1:09:14can't do it it's an impossible it's
1:09:15impossible gray like you cannot stop
1:09:19people wanting to check emails and
1:09:21Internet's and things and social media
1:09:23while driving it just can't be done and
1:09:26if the watch like scales that back a
1:09:28little bit okay I'll take it I'll take
1:09:32it okay so you're doing this thing is
1:09:34like it's not that he's going to be a
1:09:35responsible person and check his
1:09:37notifications at the petrol station you
1:09:39are saying it's less distracting for him
1:09:41using the watch but he's still doing a
1:09:43bad thing that's what you feel like here
1:09:45that's your argument
1:09:45I'm not doing anything I'm trying to say
1:09:48something I'm trying to say something
1:09:50nice about the stupid Kaka toy Apple
1:09:53watch for once and you're slapping me
1:09:55down because this is a little chunky
1:09:58silly thing and I'm like I'm trying to
1:10:01throw you a bone and now you're saying
1:10:03he should check his phone at the petrol
1:10:04station okay and get yourself a nice
1:10:06watch too while you're at it that's what
1:10:08I'm thinking this guy should this guy
1:10:09should be checking his phone at the
1:10:10petrol station and he should get a nice
1:10:12watch so I just disagree disagree we can
1:10:15never we can never come to a meeting of
1:10:17the minds on the Apple watch Brady until
1:10:19eventually one of these days you will
1:10:21end up with a SmartWatch just like I
1:10:23know you will it's only a matter of time
1:10:24so Brady I need an update on something a
1:10:29little bit more first-hand journalism
1:10:31hmm I know you've been to the US and I
1:10:34probably have very many US stories but
1:10:36there's one thing that I want to know
1:10:37which is tell me are the at-ats are they
1:10:42still a Dulles are they still there they
1:10:45most certainly are
1:10:46oh thank god yeah so I've just been
1:10:49there it was my first time at Dulles now
1:10:54gray has spoken rather negatively about
1:10:57Washington Dulles Airport uh-huh over
1:11:00the course of this podcast it's true
1:11:03Stan he made it sound pretty terrible so
1:11:07this was my first
1:11:08saying it with my own eyes and I have to
1:11:10say I'm inclined to agree with gray okay
1:11:15thank God I was like I was I was wait I
1:11:17could feel myself building up like this
1:11:19this tension because I don't like Brady
1:11:21Brady's gonna spout a bunch of nonsense
1:11:23about how it's not so bad and he's hard
1:11:25as nails okay so but you're on my side
1:11:28with this one I arrived but I was a
1:11:29little bit excited I was going to get to
1:11:31see these ATS maybe if they were still
1:11:33operating we didn't know if that there
1:11:34was there were rumors that they were no
1:11:35longer operating because of some train
1:11:37that's being built but anyway I got off
1:11:40my plane and I didn't quite realize how
1:11:43these ATS would work but it was like we
1:11:46were a bunch of dazed prisoners being
1:11:50led off the plane and before we could
1:11:52even like get our feet and figure out
1:11:54we're going you'll kind of Shepherd it
1:11:56around this steep corner into this
1:11:58holding area and then like cattle you
1:12:02have shuffled into through this door and
1:12:04you don't know what the door was to okay
1:12:06don't worry no it's not obvious where
1:12:08you're going and like you're not
1:12:10prepared for it don't say you're gonna
1:12:11get put on this thing there's no like
1:12:13chance to do anything else and suddenly
1:12:15you're in this weird room with carpeted
1:12:19walls that doesn't even seem like a
1:12:22vehicle mm-hmm and then it does it's a
1:12:25weird thing where it changes its height
1:12:27and starts driving the lack of
1:12:30communication about what's going on when
1:12:32you've just gotten off a long-haul
1:12:33flight it was really disappointing so
1:12:35anyway I chugged along in the app and I
1:12:38saw all the other ones crawling around
1:12:40and that was kind of cool I mean it was
1:12:41kind of otherworldly because I got this
1:12:43sort of late at night so seeing these
1:12:47things crawling all around the airport
1:12:48was kind of cool I was just one gate
1:12:50away from the cursed gate which I think
1:12:53was b50 I saw it from a distance but I
1:12:56didn't get to take a photo of oh and
1:12:58then I got and then the adapter posited
1:13:00us at the arrivals you know immigration
1:13:03area which again was kind of not a very
1:13:06pleasant place and not a very pleasant
1:13:08experience these places really are to be
1:13:10honest but this was particularly bad and
1:13:12they were pretty rubbish with what
1:13:14queues to put us in and then I got moved
1:13:16from Q to Q and I was thinking ah this
1:13:18couldn't get any worse and just when I
1:13:20thought it couldn't get any worse
1:13:21almost as if gray had arranged it that a
1:13:24little kid a little tiny kid standing
1:13:27next to me some toddler suddenly got
1:13:29down on his haunches and started
1:13:30vomiting before so some so I'm waiting
1:13:34in queue next to a pile of vomit Dallas
1:13:38[Laughter]
1:13:41you know I'd like to be sympathetic but
1:13:43no no this that's like though nobody is
1:13:47sympathetic to children when they're
1:13:48traveling right this is like lose a kid
1:13:50your only job is to be quiet and that's
1:13:53it to be quiet I know don't don't expel
1:13:57anything from your body right yeah just
1:13:59be silent and miserable like the rest of
1:14:01us yeah so like I finally got through
1:14:04and got my bag and then I had to join
1:14:06some other queue with my bag which was
1:14:08even longer than the immigration queue
1:14:10where they just wanted to take a piece
1:14:12of paper off me and let me continue so
1:14:15and then you know and then I ordered my
1:14:17uber and my uber guy phoned me up and
1:14:19wanted to figure out where I was going
1:14:20and just obviously decided I wasn't a
1:14:22good fare and canceled on me so I was
1:14:24having over problems as well I'm falling
1:14:26out of love with you but I can tell you
1:14:28that right now
1:14:28yeah and but that's a whole other story
1:14:30there anyway so my Dulles experience was
1:14:34terrible and when I left Washington
1:14:36I went via Ronald Reagan Airport which
1:14:39is lovely I'm realizing that you didn't
1:14:41actually you were barely in the CD
1:14:44terminals I didn't even have you know
1:14:46experience all the things you hate about
1:14:47it I had a quite limited exposure and
1:14:50even that put me offer it is now on the
1:14:52list of places that hello internet
1:14:55listeners can check off that they've
1:14:57gone to on a worldwide - hello internets
1:15:00scavenger hunt
1:15:02I guess so I'm glad I'm glad now that
1:15:04all this have been there yeah that's
1:15:06exactly what it is yeah I'm glad the
1:15:08both of us have been there
1:15:09so yeah I'm fun for you I'm sorry that a
1:15:12child vomited in line I'm sorry that
1:15:14you're falling out of love with uber it
1:15:16sounds like difficult travels but did
1:15:17you make it to your math festival on
1:15:19time I did I enjoyed Washington it was
1:15:22only my second time I'd spent any time
1:15:23there and I really enjoyed her mm-hmm I
1:15:26was there for this national math
1:15:28festival which was interesting it was
1:15:30really good it was I really loved it
1:15:32it coincided with the March for science
1:15:34which was held in Washington
1:15:35which I think there was some worry that
1:15:37it might sort of you know the Nerds
1:15:39might do the match for science instead
1:15:40of the math festival but I think the two
1:15:42sort of played off each other quite well
1:15:44and luckily for the math festival it
1:15:46absolutely poured with rain in
1:15:47Washington that day so I think a lot of
1:15:49people who were thinking I'll do the
1:15:51March and then go to the festival or
1:15:52I'll go to the festival and go to the
1:15:53match thought bugger that I'm just going
1:15:55to go to the math festival that's why I
1:15:57thought maybe the winners for them I
1:16:00love that Lee who have come all the way
1:16:02to protest oh but it's raining
1:16:04how much do I really care turns out not
1:16:07rains worth much it was a great success
1:16:10that match for science anyway and I must
1:16:12speak positively about it if only
1:16:13because our friend Duke from the Vatican
1:16:15was one of their like hosts of it and I
1:16:18didn't catch up with him for a drink in
1:16:19Washington the wave function that is
1:16:21Dirk did spread to Washington so I got
1:16:24to see him while I was there I didn't
1:16:25know he was there for that yeah he was
1:16:27the guy he was the guy up on the stage
1:16:29you know showboating around in the dry
1:16:31no doubt covered by the stage yeah ya
1:16:33know for for that pretty face they can't
1:16:35let him get wet no that's not happened
1:16:37exactly as sunshine machines at the top
1:16:40of the stage to keep him nice and warm
1:16:41I'm sure that's how that works
1:16:42so now you feel like you have to speak
1:16:44positively about it that's funny
1:16:45interesting I can show a bit of
1:16:47solidarity so the math festival well I
1:16:52obviously got there early mm-hmm and I
1:16:55had to do these like three presentations
1:16:57two of them with Matt Parker and one
1:16:59with cliff style who have people in
1:17:01might numberphile videos and there was
1:17:04just like really big room that we were
1:17:06doing it in and like I'm thinking
1:17:08there's no way people are going to come
1:17:10to this room hmm I get really nervous
1:17:12about that like I just imagine like
1:17:14three people turning up because I'm like
1:17:16who's going to want to come to this and
1:17:18then after that I knew I had to do this
1:17:20slacker they'd set up this kind of
1:17:23meet-and-greet thing for me like meet
1:17:25Brady from numberphile which I was a bit
1:17:27uneasy about and I want it to be as
1:17:29low-key as possible and then I went to
1:17:32the place where it was going to happen
1:17:33which was this huge area at the
1:17:35Convention Center in Washington that I
1:17:37swear was three times bigger than an
1:17:41aircraft hangar and then there's this
1:17:44one tiny desk over on the side with a
1:17:46sign saying meet Brady from numberphile
1:17:48and like a chair and like ropes and
1:17:50stuff and I'm like why their ropes that
1:17:54makes it like you do not need crowd
1:17:56control this is not going to be a big
1:17:58thing I felt really like really uneasy
1:18:00about it and really embarrassed about it
1:18:02hmm so so luckily lots of people came to
1:18:06the presentations there was a really
1:18:08good audience there were lots of Tim's
1:18:11my met the guy that does nerd stats on
1:18:13reddit okay you complain to him about
1:18:16that worth the weight measurement the
1:18:17terribly means worth the weight
1:18:19measurement I didn't I didn't really get
1:18:20time to discuss that but if I had I
1:18:22would have he was disappointingly normal
1:18:25I was hoping he'd be a bit nerdy abut
1:18:27anyway he seemed kind of normal but
1:18:29anyway anyway so I met lots of Tim's saw
1:18:33a few nailing gears around the place and
1:18:35then I went up like a three o'clock
1:18:38whatever I went up to this desk well I
1:18:41was going to have to sit for hours which
1:18:42I thought was going to be the most
1:18:43embarrassing moment of my life and I was
1:18:45going to be sitting at a table for like
1:18:46three hours on mine there are a few
1:18:48people milling there when I got there so
1:18:51I'm like hi and liked it signed a few
1:18:53things and did a few selfies and then
1:18:55amazingly like it was never like a long
1:18:59key like a you know VidCon where like a
1:19:01thousand screaming people line up to
1:19:03meet some vlogger but there was always
1:19:06just like 10 people like for the whole
1:19:09three hours like I think people would
1:19:12come along and think other queue there's
1:19:14a key oh there's no queue I'll join the
1:19:15queue now so like for the whole three
1:19:17hours that never stopped like I was able
1:19:19to just spend three hours meeting people
1:19:21which was nice and also incredible
1:19:24relief for my like personal pride really
1:19:27really what I love I love this stuff
1:19:30because it's like it's like you don't
1:19:33know who you are Brady if you're worried
1:19:35you worry did all these events that
1:19:36nobody is going to show up but you want
1:19:38like you're the mighty Brady Haran yeah
1:19:40you are a number file at a math
1:19:43convention like you think nobody's gonna
1:19:45show up
1:19:45to say hello like do you have any
1:19:47concept of who you are in the situation
1:19:50I'm amazed at that you weren't mobbed
1:19:52right the fans didn't dare you limb from
1:19:53limb screaming and excitement to see you
1:19:55there right it's like it's it's just
1:19:58it's so funny to me cuz like I saw the
1:20:00same thing at VidCon really like wonder
1:20:02anybody's gonna show but like now dude
1:20:03like you're Brady Haran you had a math
1:20:06convention like I think you're going to
1:20:07be fine for a meet-and-greet like I
1:20:09think you're gonna be just fine all
1:20:12right that's not that's that's fair
1:20:14enough
1:20:14but having said that and they were quite
1:20:17and quite a few hello Internet listeners
1:20:18came just for hello Internet I probably
1:20:20went who probably weren't numberphile
1:20:22fans but my favorite people who lined up
1:20:25and there were a few of these and I
1:20:27remain bamboos would buy them people who
1:20:29were waiting in line for maybe you know
1:20:3215 20 minutes because sometimes I would
1:20:34talk to people for a while and someone
1:20:36would get to the front of the queue and
1:20:38I'd say hey how are you mm-hmm and they
1:20:41would say to me yeah I'm good thanks who
1:20:44are you I saw this queue of people or
1:20:46people wanting to know so I thought okay
1:20:48I want to find out who you are and that
1:20:50I would have to like to a total stranger
1:20:51who've been waiting in queue to meet me
1:20:54I would have to say oh well my name's
1:20:56Brady and I make these YouTube videos
1:20:57about mathematics and some people like
1:21:00them they're like oh really oh that
1:21:01sounds really interesting how long have
1:21:02you been doing that for and I talk to
1:21:04them for like five minutes they had no
1:21:06idea who I was and then and then there
1:21:09would be oh can I have a picture with
1:21:10you I'm like yeah of course you can't or
1:21:13can I have a signature yeah yeah you can
1:21:16yeah and then they would just walk away
1:21:17I feel like I can't believe that that's
1:21:20real it's true it happened three times
1:21:22one of them was a family it was a mum
1:21:24with like all her kids and then I had to
1:21:26like have pictures with the kids and
1:21:28none of them knew who I was I really
1:21:30almost can't believe that what kind of
1:21:32person would do that and I were just
1:21:34saying a cue and thought maybe I was
1:21:35someone interesting or famous but like
1:21:38it's not like this is Soviet Russia and
1:21:39you see a line and you just have to get
1:21:40on the back of it because maybe they'll
1:21:42be bred like it there I don't oh my god
1:21:45I don't know I cannot him okay I mean I
1:21:49was grateful for them because they kind
1:21:50of you know patted out the line a bit
1:21:51but but I've kind of felt a bit sorry
1:21:54for I would find out the strangest
1:21:56moment to be in a way justifying the
1:22:00existence of the line to see you like
1:22:03someone gets at the friend like you
1:22:05don't seem that impressive who are you
1:22:07that is so weird I can't believe that
1:22:10that happens at all let alone like if
1:22:12you told me one person did it I'd be
1:22:13like well obviously there's some
1:22:14lunatics
1:22:15in this world but three people hmm
1:22:18that's one an hour on average I don't
1:22:21understand how those people can exist
1:22:22that is very strange to me I'm sorry
1:22:26that you had to go through that so from
1:22:29Washington I went on to Miami and like
1:22:33I'm not going to talk for ages about
1:22:34Miami but it was a weird place also were
1:22:42there expectations that you are going to
1:22:43talk for ages about Miami because
1:22:45everybody knows it's a place that you
1:22:46talk a lot about I have never been to
1:22:47Miami tell me how about a Brady I'm not
1:22:49going to go too much into Miami because
1:22:51you know I don't want to turn hello
1:22:52internet into what Brady did in his
1:22:54holiday but there was one thing that
1:22:57struck me as interesting and this was I
1:23:00mean probably the thing that's most
1:23:03famous for and its greatest essay is
1:23:05it's lovely big long beautiful beach big
1:23:09long sandy beach beautiful water always
1:23:11great weather all the hotels look out at
1:23:15the beach I had a hotel room looking out
1:23:16over the beach everyone sits by the
1:23:18pools at their hotel that are oriented
1:23:20so you can look out over the beach or
1:23:21you sit on the beach itself mm-hmm and
1:23:23everyone gazes this marvelous Vista so
1:23:26being America obviously this is seen as
1:23:29an advertising opportunity and they have
1:23:32lots and lots of planes dragging ads
1:23:35behind them and I actually quite like
1:23:37that I find that quite quite quaint and
1:23:40I'm in favor of those planes dragging
1:23:44ads through the sky on one condition
1:23:47they have to be those ads that are like
1:23:49made of like letters that have obviously
1:23:51been you know taken from a stockpile of
1:23:54letters and they just rearrange the
1:23:56letters depending on who the advertiser
1:23:57is you know that you know that cliche
1:23:59kind of I'm talking about right well I
1:24:01get would you want letter like you you
1:24:03want letterpress here like like a
1:24:05Gutenberg rearrangement of the letters
1:24:07for the advertisement because what
1:24:09happens now is some of the planes are
1:24:10dragging behind them like these huge
1:24:12obviously like silk-screened posters
1:24:14with like pictures of women holding
1:24:16machine guns saying come to our firing
1:24:18range and that sounds pretty awesome I
1:24:20think I could be sold on that that one
1:24:23was awesome but generally those ones I
1:24:25don't approve of it's a bit too
1:24:26high-tech but when there's those ones
1:24:28just like dragging
1:24:29like letters I feel like I've gone like
1:24:31to the 1960s or something and it's quite
1:24:33I feel like I'm in like Scarface or
1:24:36something and I'm back in Miami in some
1:24:37cool time okay but it but if it's like a
1:24:39bottom third banner advertisement on a
1:24:42YouTube video that's not cool
1:24:44that you don't like yeah what I want the
1:24:46letters I want the printing press
1:24:47letters so they're okay but there's
1:24:49another kind of advert that I was
1:24:51horrified by and that was every sort of
1:24:5420 minutes or so probably about a
1:24:57hundred 200 meters out to see this
1:25:01slowly chugging boat goes along like you
1:25:04know from right to left and then left to
1:25:06right along the whole stretch of the
1:25:08beach with this giant TV screen facing
1:25:11back to all the people on the land
1:25:13playing video ads at them and it just
1:25:15chugs along and you've got to watch all
1:25:17these video ads from this advertising
1:25:19boat that just chugs up and down the
1:25:21beach all day and I do not approve of
1:25:23that I'm gonna say that might be one of
1:25:25the most offensive kind of ads I've ever
1:25:28heard it was terrible
1:25:29it was terrible I cannot believe they're
1:25:31allowed to do it I think right below
1:25:33that the kind of ad that always bothered
1:25:35me the most is and it particularly see
1:25:37the minute in in Las Vegas is they have
1:25:41these in quotation marks I wanna say
1:25:43like trucks like their little trucks but
1:25:45on the back of them they're carrying
1:25:47nothing except a gigantic vertical
1:25:49poster right in either direction and
1:25:51those things always bother me because it
1:25:52feel like your whole job little truck is
1:25:54to drive up and down some of the busiest
1:25:58streets in a city just causing more
1:26:01traffic while advertising you offend me
1:26:03here at least don't have the
1:26:04advertisement be actively in the way of
1:26:06everybody else on the road and I've seen
1:26:09them in London every once in a while too
1:26:10and I was like those really bother me
1:26:11but to have someone essentially
1:26:13literally drag a TV across an ocean view
1:26:17yeah I feel it I would make me furious
1:26:22if I was on vacation that is horrific
1:26:24it's the way you know it's your thing
1:26:26it's their beautiful thing it's why
1:26:27you're there and like I like I said I
1:26:29can get on board with the planes because
1:26:32I don't know it's like from another era
1:26:34but the TV screens that's like a crime
1:26:37against humanity
1:26:38that's that looked like to me come on
1:26:39Miami sort yourself out yeah those
1:26:41things
1:26:44quick sports ball corner gray doesn't
1:26:47involve a bowl this is from the world of
1:26:49athletics and something that I thought
1:26:52you might find interesting
1:26:53mm-hmm and there is obviously you know
1:26:56who wins things is quite important in
1:26:58athletics you get your gold medals and
1:26:59stuff but a sub important thing about
1:27:01athletics is who has the World Records
1:27:03who has you know run the fastest 100
1:27:06meters or who was throwing the javelin
1:27:07the farthest right now because of all
1:27:10the problems that athletics has been
1:27:13having with doping and things like that
1:27:15and drug cheats a controversial proposal
1:27:18seems to be close to becoming a thing
1:27:21and that is they are thinking of
1:27:24scrubbing the record books of any world
1:27:28record that was set before 2005 and
1:27:32that's because before 2005 they didn't
1:27:35keep samples since then they do keep
1:27:38samples so as they come up with like
1:27:39better drug tests and better ways of
1:27:41finding cheats you mean they can run in
1:27:43blood samples I think blood or urine and
1:27:46things like that I'm not sure exactly
1:27:47sure which I think I think that's the
1:27:49reason I'm pretty sure that's the reason
1:27:51so basically the rule the rules are such
1:27:54for World Records to be recognized it
1:27:57has to have been achieved at a
1:27:58competition that's unlike a list of
1:28:00approved events where I guess they have
1:28:01you know the right clocks and tape
1:28:03measures and stuff right the athlete has
1:28:05to have been subject to an agreed number
1:28:07of doping control tests in the months
1:28:09leading up to the event okay
1:28:11and the doping control sample that was
1:28:13taken from them after they set their
1:28:15record has to have been stored and
1:28:17available for retesting for ten years
1:28:20and basically up until 2005 that didn't
1:28:24happen since then they've had these more
1:28:26stringent requirements so I think for
1:28:28like the integrity of the sport because
1:28:30some of the some of these World Records
1:28:32for example the world records set by
1:28:33Florence Griffith Joyner who was a
1:28:36American sprinter and her records are
1:28:39considered pretty suspect but they still
1:28:41stand they've decided we can say that
1:28:44because she's died so we can defame her
1:28:46but anyway is that how that works okay
1:28:50yeah all right that's okay I'm not
1:28:52better than this I don't know how that
1:28:53in caves in defamation so what they've
1:28:56said is for sort of the integrity of
1:28:58these records they've decided to take
1:29:00this heavy-handed broad brush approach
1:29:03and say let's just wipe out all the
1:29:05records from before 2005 and of course a
1:29:08whole bunch of people who probably are
1:29:10clean and certainly say they're clean
1:29:12are saying hang on this is really unfair
1:29:14we're losing all our world records but
1:29:17this is the decision that there seem to
1:29:18be coming to let's wipe the slate clean
1:29:21start World Records from then I was
1:29:24wondering what you would think of this
1:29:25this is an interesting decision my first
1:29:27impression is you're telling me that
1:29:29somewhere in the world there's a vault
1:29:31with ten years worth of athlete's blood
1:29:35and urine samples like this that's what
1:29:38I'm getting out of this story's like
1:29:39somewhere they have these samples stored
1:29:42that is weird
1:29:43that is really weird to think about I
1:29:45think they would only keep the ones of
1:29:46people who have like won the medals and
1:29:49set the World Records I don't think like
1:29:51anyone who ever does anything has
1:29:52everything kept although I imagine they
1:29:54must have to try and keep 4th and 5th
1:29:56and 6th maybe they do it for all the
1:29:57finalists you've gotta keep a few right
1:30:00because we're gonna we're gonna go back
1:30:01in time and we're going to reset who's
1:30:03the record you're gonna have to test
1:30:04who's number two as well right yeah
1:30:06otherwise you're just filming the lead
1:30:08golfer all the time right and that's no
1:30:09good
1:30:09to film everybody okay so after you get
1:30:12over the shock of the way in the blood
1:30:14no but isn't that interesting to you
1:30:15like do you think they're all in one
1:30:16place where do you think they I want to
1:30:18know where their caps I don't know I've
1:30:20seen like reports and stuff before from
1:30:22these facilities that do this it's like
1:30:23a whole industry you know checking
1:30:25athlete's samples for doping they always
1:30:28just look like big giant labs with
1:30:30fridges and freezers and if they decide
1:30:32to pass this new rule and then let's say
1:30:36one of the facilities that's storing all
1:30:37of the blood and urine burns to the
1:30:39ground do all of those people then lose
1:30:41their record there is an interesting
1:30:43question I think I think maybe there's a
1:30:45degree of higher powers there and people
1:30:48would say well that's not your fault
1:30:49you're not going to lose your record for
1:30:50that I think this 2005 thing is they've
1:30:53said we didn't really get our act
1:30:55together in terms of you know having
1:30:57good mechanisms in place to stop
1:30:59cheating into 2005 let's make that our
1:31:03new start point let's reset the clock
1:31:05you know and if there's a whole bunch of
1:31:07people who are saying they're sort of
1:31:08innocent victims but I mean I mean World
1:31:11Records are funny things anyway because
1:31:13it's not like they're it like you don't
1:31:15get medals for having a world record
1:31:16they're just like they're just pieces of
1:31:18information anyway yeah and even if
1:31:21someone new has the world record for the
1:31:22hundred meters
1:31:23women's hundred meters everyone's going
1:31:26to know it was run quicker you know in
1:31:282002 but that one doesn't count yeah
1:31:30everyone's everyone's going to know that
1:31:32yeah that's how that works
1:31:34hmm I thought it was an interesting
1:31:35decision that you might have thoughts on
1:31:37because I I never really know where you
1:31:38stand on drugs in sport anyway I kind of
1:31:40part of me thinks you think maybe there
1:31:42okay so I'm pro doping really yeah it
1:31:47seems like a stupid arbitrary thing to
1:31:50say like oh we can do all of these
1:31:52things that are sports training which
1:31:55are all about manipulating the chemicals
1:31:57inside your body
1:31:58through physical means yeah and you can
1:32:00eat healthy food oh that's not fair you
1:32:02ate too many carrots that's making you
1:32:04really strong it's dumb like I'm all in
1:32:06favor of doping I don't even mean that
1:32:08as a joke I won a hundred percent I'm in
1:32:10favor of doping I think it's it's dumb
1:32:13that it's not allowed point people then
1:32:16like put their own lives at risk as I
1:32:17sort of push themselves to the limit own
1:32:19sports be more exciting when people are
1:32:21at people's lives are on the line or the
1:32:24game what's the downside here alright it
1:32:26seems like it's all upside the sport
1:32:27gets more exciting you're gonna have
1:32:29more impressive physical feats which is
1:32:31the whole purpose of it I have no
1:32:33problem with this I've no problem with
1:32:34this whatsoever
1:32:35well it amuses me that you think that I
1:32:38think it would be a little bit
1:32:39irresponsible if we allowed doping in
1:32:42sport yeah cuz sport is filled with
1:32:43nothing but responsible necessary
1:32:46responsible field it's all aboveboard
1:32:49everything's fine there's nothing you're
1:32:51responsible about the whole notion of
1:32:52professional sports in the first place
1:32:54but doping no that is too far sir right
1:32:57that work definitely that's not allowed
1:32:58I mean like all that crazy stuff about
1:33:01people doing like high-altitude training
1:33:02and like taking out their blood and then
1:33:04like pumping their own blood back into
1:33:06them it's like well that's not doping
1:33:07because it's your own genetic material
1:33:08like this stuff is crazy I'm totally
1:33:10fine with it like you want to take some
1:33:11steroids to be a better athlete I'm okay
1:33:14with that I have no say yes saying let's
1:33:16make sport like you know technological
1:33:18arms race and just take it to its
1:33:19conclusion
1:33:20wherever that is that it's that already
1:33:22like yeah yeah I got a camera where I
1:33:25came across it I came across something
1:33:26which was just talking about even like
1:33:29sports records as they relate to like
1:33:31baseball bats and tennis rackets and all
1:33:34kinds of things where you just you don't
1:33:36even really think about it but it's like
1:33:37oh of course of course there's actually
1:33:39quite a lot of technology that goes into
1:33:41a tennis racket and how it responds yeah
1:33:44to the tennis balls like oh yeah
1:33:46this is all like a thing anyway that's
1:33:47that's about progress yeah I mean your
1:33:49people so are countries with the best
1:33:51you know chemists will start winning all
1:33:53the medals but as it stands now the
1:33:55countries with the best training
1:33:57facilities win all the medals so I
1:33:59understand that argument I do think
1:34:01there's like a human safety element to
1:34:04some of the drug stuff that probably is
1:34:06worthy of consideration don't get me
1:34:08wrong it's worthy of consideration but I
1:34:11think well we'll just end up happening
1:34:13as well start genetically breeding
1:34:15people to be more receptive to those
1:34:17drugs to compete in our sports and we'll
1:34:20just end up with an entire class of
1:34:21people who are bred to be athletes I
1:34:24think that's the natural logical
1:34:25conclusion of this and it'll be an
1:34:28amazing sporting future would you rather
1:34:30watch that sporting contest between like
1:34:32the super bred drugged up uber humans or
1:34:35robots competing hmm or base this
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1:36:30thank you so much two away travel for
1:36:32supporting this episode of hello
1:36:34Internet so Brady piece of news broke
1:36:39through my bubble net which is we're
1:36:41going to have an election here in the UK
1:36:43a snap election a snap election how
1:36:47exciting the Prime Minister Theresa May
1:36:49is just decided let's have an election I
1:36:52thought this new law where you had an
1:36:54election every five years which was new
1:36:56to the UK was designed to stop this
1:36:58being like a thing you were allowed to
1:36:59do but obviously it's not I don't
1:37:02actually know what that new five-year
1:37:03law is for now if you can call snap
1:37:06elections anyway I don't understand how
1:37:08she's allowed to do it but it's
1:37:09happening so yeah we're we mentioned
1:37:11this once when the law first came out
1:37:14and my understanding is that that law
1:37:15was primarily to just shorten the
1:37:18maximum length between elections in the
1:37:21UK it was six years before wasn't it oh
1:37:24okay okay so this new this law whatever
1:37:26it's called about having a set election
1:37:28every five years on a set date is just a
1:37:31fancy way of saying the limit now is
1:37:33five years between elections that was my
1:37:35understanding of it and that seems to be
1:37:36the case background for Americans right
1:37:38there's there's this thing in the UK
1:37:39just very briefly where you can have an
1:37:42election at any point and then you have
1:37:44its what six weeks is the whole whole
1:37:46cycle before
1:37:48the election actually takes place like
1:37:50this is a thing that can happen in UK
1:37:51politics and it can happen either
1:37:53because you have a coalition government
1:37:55that falls apart or it can happen as has
1:37:58happened in this case where the party in
1:38:00power thinks that they can more firmly
1:38:02lock in their power and you can just you
1:38:05can have an election and the thing that
1:38:07happens now which i think is interesting
1:38:09is that it looks like it resets the
1:38:13clock so it's again the next election
1:38:16can be no more than five years from this
1:38:19election is the way it works so we don't
1:38:22have like a fixed election cycle in the
1:38:25UK in the same way that the United
1:38:26States does yeah and that is what has
1:38:29happened most recently with Theresa May
1:38:32calling the snap election in the UK and
1:38:34for those who don't follow British
1:38:36politics pretty obviously what's
1:38:38happened is the the opposition party in
1:38:41the UK is in such dire state and it's so
1:38:45far behind in the polls that I think the
1:38:48Prime Minister here thought it was a
1:38:49fait accompli that she would win an
1:38:50election and win it handsomely and
1:38:53probably increase her mandate and not
1:38:55only would it reset her clock she's
1:38:57probably arguing it'll give her a bit
1:38:59stronger mandate for all the bricks at
1:39:01who her and stuff that's to follow so
1:39:03it's sort of a opportunism isn't it or
1:39:06shrewdness or whatever you want to call
1:39:09it I saw your tweet I saw your tweet but
1:39:13which one tweet I don't even remember
1:39:15what we don't have a gate wait I think
1:39:17it was I think it was right because it
1:39:19was one of these things where obviously
1:39:21I don't follow the day-to-day of
1:39:22politics I have no interest of this but
1:39:23this did burst through my bubble from
1:39:25bunch of people sending me stuff about
1:39:26the election happening as soon as I saw
1:39:29it I thought it wouldn't have occurred
1:39:32to me but it does seem like there was a
1:39:34very clever move on her part some of
1:39:38those things in retrospect it seems
1:39:39almost obvious like it's a good decision
1:39:41for her to gain more power and to sort
1:39:45of lock in more more victories for her
1:39:47party I mean it may disgust for months
1:39:49and months but she just kept promising
1:39:51she wouldn't do it it wasn't a shock
1:39:53because no one thought she would do it
1:39:55like everyone thought it was a really
1:39:56obvious move but she just promised that
1:39:58she wouldn't do it so the reason it was
1:40:00a shock was because it was such a
1:40:01a brazen break of her promise I have a
1:40:04hard time holding someone to the notion
1:40:07of like if you've had the opinion once
1:40:08you have to have that opinion for
1:40:10forever yeah right yeah I wouldn't even
1:40:12pass it off cynically as like Oh
1:40:13politicians you can't trust them it's
1:40:14just like no you know you don't
1:40:15necessarily know what reasons like why
1:40:17things change even if it was just
1:40:19straight-up strategic to say like oh
1:40:21we're not going to hold an election and
1:40:22then later we're gonna do it anyway it's
1:40:23like yeah people have their reasons some
1:40:25I can never like fault someone for
1:40:27changing their mind I think it's okay to
1:40:30change your mind I don't think it's okay
1:40:31to lie for strategic reasons when you
1:40:34are a leader of people because then
1:40:36people could make decisions like if
1:40:39before an election you promised you
1:40:40would do something mm-hmm and you knew
1:40:42for a fact you wouldn't do it and
1:40:44everyone voted on you on that basis and
1:40:46then you did the other thing what hope
1:40:48have we got for democracy if like Strich
1:40:51eat like I'm not saying it will stop
1:40:52happening but if it's like acceptable
1:40:55and everyone's saying I know it's fine
1:40:56yeah yeah it's okay to lie I think when
1:40:59you do strategic lying that will never
1:41:01stop but I think you need to be cold on
1:41:03it and slept over the wrists I think if
1:41:05we create a world where strategic lying
1:41:07is like fine then what hope have we got
1:41:11as like voters but what like what like
1:41:14we dislike we're just flip flopping in
1:41:15the wind now because they can just do
1:41:17whatever they want there has to be some
1:41:18penalty for your strategic yeah and too
1:41:21much strategic lying has to result in
1:41:23you like you know getting kicked out
1:41:25we're a little bit of strategic lying
1:41:27you kind of get away with it yeah it's
1:41:29funny because it's like when I when I
1:41:31was first saying that I was having in my
1:41:32mind like I was going to go to some like
1:41:34World War two analogy about what will a
1:41:36leader say on the radio that's a dirty G
1:41:38collided like win a victory it's like
1:41:39yes but at the other end of that
1:41:41spectrum is just straight-up lies that
1:41:43we can all agree you're like terrible
1:41:45like I'm never gonna fulfill this
1:41:46promise at all lies so yeah obviously
1:41:48there's got to be somewhere there's got
1:41:50to be something that's somewhere in
1:41:51between there yeah I'm okay with being
1:41:56strategic about when you want to
1:41:57announce a snap election feels like it's
1:42:00someone who is already in office trying
1:42:04to time a thing I feel like I'm okay
1:42:08with that but maybe maybe much further
1:42:11is not okay is it a little bit like that
1:42:13because I know you're someone who is
1:42:15really opposed to gerrymandering ie like
1:42:19you think you think that's pretty poison
1:42:20thing that happens in the u.s. yeah
1:42:22right and that is a prime example of the
1:42:25people who are in power being able to
1:42:28manipulate the electoral system is snap
1:42:31elections another example of that they
1:42:33like she had the power and she's
1:42:36manipulated the system by calling the
1:42:38election at the moment that gives her
1:42:40the maximum opportunity to win not like
1:42:42an arbitrary fair time that's been
1:42:44decided this date in the future is this
1:42:47not like a kind of gerrymandering how is
1:42:50it different so yeah I think you're
1:42:51right that in a way this is a kind of
1:42:53gerrymandering but I'm more okay with it
1:42:56because I think this is again we have to
1:42:59talk like in the abstract about how do
1:43:00you have a government yeah system work
1:43:02like we're not talking about this
1:43:02particular election yeah I'm kind of ok
1:43:05with it because I think this is just the
1:43:07natural consequence of the way this
1:43:10system is set up that you could also
1:43:12have a moment where you have like an
1:43:15impasse in the government and then you
1:43:17can have an election that that occurs
1:43:19when there is an impasse and the
1:43:21election is like the thing that solves
1:43:23this political impasse if a coalition
1:43:27government isn't able to stick together
1:43:28and I think it's very hard to imagine it
1:43:31like a set of rules where you can have
1:43:34the government dissolve but not have it
1:43:37dissolved strategically this is like the
1:43:40consequence of the way the system is set
1:43:42up but I totally agree that there's this
1:43:45what has occurred now is probably the
1:43:47situation where someone is strategically
1:43:49dissolving the government in order to
1:43:52win by a bigger margin I mean she's
1:43:55pretty upfront about that just to
1:43:57quickly come back to this practical
1:43:58example they were mainly talking in
1:44:00abstractions I mean there was no real
1:44:02impasse in the UK and no one has even
1:44:05pretended there was she she basically
1:44:07has said I want a stronger mandate you
1:44:10know going into the next few years with
1:44:13all the things that are ahead for the UK
1:44:14and to be fair the opposition all the
1:44:17other parties lay down and approved it
1:44:20like you know it went through the
1:44:21Parliament so it's not like they all
1:44:22said cried foul and said stop that so
1:44:25but I don't think it's not even like
1:44:28they
1:44:29she manipulated the system and created
1:44:31some bill over which no one could agree
1:44:33that would result in the Parliament
1:44:35collapsing she just basically said I
1:44:37want more votes what do you all say who
1:44:41and you know what opposition isn't going
1:44:43to approve an election because you look
1:44:46cowardly if you say no
1:44:47putting aside the particulars of the
1:44:49policy this was just a totally brilliant
1:44:52game theory move right because I think
1:44:56this whole situation with brexit and
1:44:58then the UK having another election
1:45:00she's able to do the like do you want to
1:45:04vote to make us stronger in a
1:45:06negotiation or do you want to make us
1:45:08weaker in a negotiation it is such a
1:45:10killer electoral move and to time it at
1:45:15a place where yet the opposition party
1:45:17seems like they are particularly weak I
1:45:20don't follow the details of a day to day
1:45:22but I expect that the Conservatives are
1:45:24going to walk away with like a huge a
1:45:26huge victory over this one it's hard to
1:45:30imagine how that that wouldn't happen I
1:45:34do think that that she's right in a way
1:45:36that the more resounding of a victory
1:45:40she can win like the better it makes it
1:45:43for the UK negotiating with the European
1:45:46Union and it's like oh god like what
1:45:48like you're trapped in this in this
1:45:49position where is she's made it almost
1:45:52feel like if you don't vote her way you
1:45:56were voting against the best interests
1:45:58of the UK that's why I did think like as
1:46:00soon as I like I heard that the election
1:46:02was occurring and then I saw her little
1:46:03speech about like oh you need to you
1:46:05need to vote with us or you're against
1:46:07us you're against the UK thing I was
1:46:09like man it just feels like it's a
1:46:10really clever little game theory win on
1:46:15the behalf of the Conservatives so I
1:46:17just I think it's an interesting
1:46:19situation and I'm going to be very
1:46:20curious to see how it turns out but I'm
1:46:22expecting that they're really gonna
1:46:23clean house yeah they're anything I
1:46:25disagree with him what you just said was
1:46:27capturing it as like some brilliant move
1:46:29like she's just solved from ours Last
1:46:30Theorem or something I think it was like
1:46:32just bit of an no brainer and she was
1:46:34just a bit ruthless I don't think you
1:46:36know she's pulled off some political act
1:46:39of genius like it was just like everyone
1:46:41was saying for months
1:46:43yeah she'll probably call a snap
1:46:44election because she'll crush him and
1:46:46increase her majority and then sure
1:46:48enough that's what she did it's not just
1:46:50calling the snap election it's the it's
1:46:52the tie in with brexit that's what makes
1:46:55it a stronger position I'm not saying
1:46:58that this is like ooh this is some
1:46:59strategic 3d chess move it's an
1:47:02interesting thing that has occurred in
1:47:05the way this system works and I think
1:47:07combining it with brexit it just feels
1:47:10like a kind of trap for the voters where
1:47:14you you have yeah very little
1:47:17maneuverability yeah I guess I guess
1:47:19that the the sneaky move was calling a
1:47:22snap election after triggering yeah yeah
1:47:24that's what it is
1:47:25it's no longer a revote on bricks like
1:47:27bricks that's happening you can't stop
1:47:29it now but are you going to sabotage the
1:47:30country or not that's probably the
1:47:32interesting thing about the timing if
1:47:34she'd said I'm not going to call article
1:47:3650 until you decide on me as your new
1:47:38prime minister then it would have become
1:47:40referendum too right it's like oh well
1:47:42you know I'm flying this plane we've
1:47:45taken off we know where we're going and
1:47:47now are you going to let me pick the
1:47:49crew that I fly the plane with or not
1:47:51we're all on this plane together like we
1:47:53needed to get where it's going and we
1:47:55can't get you out of the cockpit so it's
1:47:58almost crazy to try to like pick people
1:48:00who are going to work against you it's
1:48:01just that's why I think it's just it's
1:48:02an interesting thing it's also sort of
1:48:05like sad to see the opposition parties
1:48:07are trying to negotiate with each other
1:48:10to run candidates or not run candidates
1:48:14in various districts based on who was
1:48:15going to win or who is like it's just
1:48:17you can see all of the side effects of
1:48:19the strategic voting that has to occur
1:48:21everywhere else it's just you know again
1:48:25that's just like a just a very
1:48:26frustrating situation take an
1:48:29interesting thing about politics cry
1:48:30yeah like just to touch on you know my
1:48:34consumption of news again I'm really
1:48:36into my political podcast at the moment
1:48:39there are quite a few I like listening
1:48:40to particularly American politics you
1:48:42know it's become so interesting now that
1:48:44I've really increased my intake of
1:48:46American politics stuff and there's also
1:48:48like a few like there's a satirical
1:48:50magazine that comes out every two weeks
1:48:52in the UK called Private Eye which deals
1:48:55a lot with politics and it's one of my
1:48:56fav
1:48:56of things to read and I've always got
1:48:59great pleasure from these things but the
1:49:01problem is because you know I'm a busy
1:49:02person and there's so much of this stuff
1:49:04you can't consume it straight away you
1:49:06know you've got a picture times when you
1:49:08go for a drive or you go to the gym and
1:49:09stuff and in the last year or so
1:49:12politics has just started changing so
1:49:16quickly that all of these things become
1:49:20completely pointless to listen to within
1:49:23hours of coming out it's been a really
1:49:26crazy thing I guess I'm helping make one
1:49:28of your arguments here in a way but like
1:49:30this stuff is changing so soon that if I
1:49:32have any podcast about American politics
1:49:35and I don't listen to it that day and
1:49:37leave it three or four days I may as
1:49:39well be listening to them talk about
1:49:41Andrew Jackson or something it's so out
1:49:43of date like stuff they're talking about
1:49:44it's crazy I don't know why politics is
1:49:47moving so quickly now I don't know
1:49:49whether it's changed or I've changed or
1:49:51something but it's just everything's
1:49:53just happened so fast now it makes my
1:49:55head spin has something changed that's
1:49:57made politics go into some kind of
1:49:59fast-forward or is it just like it's
1:50:01just a weird little time we're living in
1:50:02at the moment or is it just the way I'm
1:50:04perceiving it right I know I know you
1:50:07don't follow it but you must be aware
1:50:08that all this stuff that's happening so
1:50:09quickly now I feel resistant to
1:50:11arguments about how things are happening
1:50:13faster now than they have ever been I
1:50:15wonder because I think that that is
1:50:18almost certainly going to be affected by
1:50:20how much people are discussing things
1:50:22the amount of talking is going to make
1:50:24stuff feel faster than otherwise like I
1:50:29am NOT saying that things aren't faster
1:50:31I'm just saying that like your
1:50:32perception of how fast things are
1:50:34essentially what I'm saying here Brady
1:50:36is I think you might be subscribed to a
1:50:37lot of political podcasts right which
1:50:39are talking about a whole bunch of stuff
1:50:41and you only have so much time to
1:50:44actually listen to your political
1:50:45podcasts which then makes you aware of
1:50:47all the ones you didn't get to have
1:50:50become totally meaningless and
1:50:52irrelevant than the time that has passed
1:50:54and so then it feels like wow things are
1:50:56things are going by so quickly because I
1:50:58didn't get a chance to listen to these
1:51:00three other political podcasts about
1:51:02this thing yeah I understand the point
1:51:05you're making there perhaps I framed
1:51:06that incorrectly and made it sound like
1:51:08I listened to loads and loads of them
1:51:09there
1:51:10like two or three of them and I do
1:51:11listen to them within a few days and
1:51:13they just seem out of date really really
1:51:17quickly so why do you listen to them
1:51:18then I think a big part of it is the
1:51:20Fiat the handful I do listen to I like
1:51:23the people as much as anything which is
1:51:25always an import of a podcast I'm just
1:51:27enjoying smart hearing smart people talk
1:51:29about interesting things in an
1:51:31interesting way so it's not that I'm
1:51:32like some you know total political
1:51:35junkie I mean I think what's happening
1:51:36in America is quite interesting at the
1:51:38moment it's quiet it's quite a show but
1:51:40I don't think that's the whole reason I
1:51:41think I also just enjoy listening to
1:51:43these people but like so many things
1:51:44that landscapes is changing really
1:51:46quickly it's kind of a bit dizzying
1:51:48sometimes and the UK doesn't feel that
1:51:49much different and this snap election
1:51:51has certainly hasn't helped like it's
1:51:53just just when the UK felt like okay
1:51:55let's sped in for two years of brexit
1:51:58slog it's like no no we're having
1:52:00another election she called the election
1:52:02you know a few days before the council
1:52:04elections and so there are election
1:52:06results coming in during the election
1:52:08campaign and it's like wow man it's a
1:52:11bit fatiguing to be honest it's a bit
1:52:13fatigued maybe you should you should
1:52:15listen to fewer blue and I need a good
1:52:17beekeeping one do you know any however
1:52:19find some like it I get a good
1:52:21beekeeping recommendation start one it
1:52:23could be called the buzz with CGP grey
1:52:25and it's just all about that latest
1:52:27happenings in the world of beekeeping I
1:52:29was about to say there's no possible way
1:52:31that there can be news in the beekeeping
1:52:33world but if there's anything I've
1:52:34learned from the internet right it's
1:52:36that is that everything is a world unto
1:52:40itself right every topic has an infinite
1:52:42amount of depth to it so I'm absolutely
1:52:46sure that there's like beekeeping
1:52:48monthly and a podcast and politics
1:52:53within the beekeeping world every topic
1:52:55is an infinite topic of course there's
1:52:57been another big election though this
1:52:59has been the French election did you
1:53:01follow this ah do you know what happened
1:53:05no I was already there was been a French
1:53:10presidential election I wanted to ask
1:53:12you about their voting system but if you
1:53:13don't even know what happened you
1:53:14probably not going to oh I know about
1:53:16the two-round French voting system yeah
1:53:17okay I know that okay okay I think you
1:53:20probably should know that there was a
1:53:21which presidential election on the
1:53:23weekend but I totally respect that you
1:53:24don't win see and let's think that's
1:53:28good because that will make your
1:53:30discussion completely non-political
1:53:31which is which is great how many
1:53:33elections happened worldwide every month
1:53:36there must be a bunch yeah but from
1:53:37France is a pretty big important country
1:53:39and this is like you know particularly
1:53:41in the context of are you saying other
1:53:42people's elections are not important
1:53:44Brady that's what that's what I'm here
1:53:45is particularly in the context of what's
1:53:47happening in the EU and although we're
1:53:48not going to go into the details the
1:53:50nuances of this election you know
1:53:51involving you know who was running and
1:53:54what was going on and some of the
1:53:56implications in a broader context this
1:53:58was an interesting one this was why did
1:54:00I miss something important like as
1:54:02someone who missed the whole thing
1:54:03what's different now than before the
1:54:05father runt the final two-person runoff
1:54:07was between a centrist candidate and a
1:54:09far-right candidate who was very anti
1:54:12Europe so it was considered bit of a a
1:54:14referendum on that was this going to be
1:54:16like a you know brick suit
1:54:18rerun after recent election results
1:54:20where more right views have prevailed a
1:54:23lot of people were thinking is this a
1:54:24trend that's going to continue this
1:54:26woman who was running for French
1:54:28president was quite extreme from quite
1:54:30an extreme side of politics so there
1:54:32were lots of eyeballs on it to see what
1:54:33what would happen and in the end the
1:54:36sort of more centrist candidate won the
1:54:38two-person runoff
1:54:39in bit of a landslide but the thing that
1:54:42was interesting from purely a voting
1:54:43perspective was the round before where
1:54:47there was just this right-wing candidate
1:54:50and then lots of other candidates who
1:54:51were left and centrist in that they all
1:54:53split the vote amongst themselves and
1:54:55the right wing and that did really
1:54:57really well so but then what happened
1:55:00was when it became a two-person runoff
1:55:02all the people then consolidated behind
1:55:04the the centrist one so it was just
1:55:06really interesting from a sort of an
1:55:07electoral Theory perspective so I
1:55:10thought maybe you'd followed it for that
1:55:11reason
1:55:12now that sounds like the system works
1:55:14then that is the French system like it's
1:55:15round one one vote per person and then
1:55:20you pick the two most popular and they
1:55:21face off in the final election it's a
1:55:25better system than the
1:55:26first-past-the-post system but that's
1:55:27not hard to do because first bad suppose
1:55:29is the worst ever is it a better system
1:55:31than the transferable vote though what
1:55:33are the advantages or disadvantages to
1:55:35the
1:55:35run off system versus a transferable
1:55:38vote just having one round in the first
1:55:40place and everyone just has their
1:55:41priorities and knows that everything's
1:55:43going to get shuffled around in the end
1:55:45to where it should be if I'm going to
1:55:46rank these two things I would say that
1:55:49the two round system is better than
1:55:50first-past-the-post but it's not as good
1:55:53as a as a ranked method like single
1:55:56transferable vote or Instant Runoff
1:55:58around it's because you're losing you're
1:56:01losing information about preference what
1:56:05you're essentially doing is you're
1:56:06having to first-past-the-post votes one
1:56:11after the other in the two round system
1:56:13and so it sounds like in this latest
1:56:16French election that what can happen is
1:56:19exactly this where you get you get a
1:56:22candidate who has a smaller fanatical
1:56:25base that sticks together wins they get
1:56:28a bunch of votes and then there happens
1:56:31to be somebody else who is also has a
1:56:33bunch of votes who might be like a
1:56:34centrist candidate like the round two
1:56:37essentially is an option to undo the
1:56:41winner of round one in a way like that's
1:56:44what the two round system is doing
1:56:45whereas if it was just a straight run
1:56:47off of straight first-past-the-post vote
1:56:49wasn't happen but the thing with like
1:56:51with a single transferable vote system
1:56:53or an instant runoff system is you're
1:56:55able to say like oh I like this person
1:56:56and that person is more information to
1:56:58work with yeah about how much the people
1:57:01like each of the candidates and and what
1:57:04their ranking is better than
1:57:06first-past-the-post not as good as some
1:57:08other systems even with this you get
1:57:10very quickly into this this kind of like
1:57:13fun debatable area where with all voting
1:57:18systems like I like them because you you
1:57:21have to be making some kind of
1:57:23negotiation between what the mathematics
1:57:26tells you about how systems work and
1:57:28then what is it that you are valuing in
1:57:30an electoral system which the math can't
1:57:33possibly tell you and it's why arguments
1:57:36about this stuff will never end because
1:57:37there's no mathematical answer to say oh
1:57:39this system is obviously the best you
1:57:42can only just say this system meets a
1:57:44bunch of different criteria in better or
1:57:46worse ways and then ultimately there has
1:57:48to be
1:57:49human judgment about which of the
1:57:51criteria matter more than others there's
1:57:55no way to just say like oh this is the
1:57:56best or this is not the best but we can
1:57:58all agree that first-past-the-post is
1:57:59the worst
1:57:59I guess the advantage of the runoff I
1:58:03mean I think I agree with you I already
1:58:05like the transferable vote but I guess
1:58:07the advantage of the runoff is once you
1:58:10know people's preferences the first time
1:58:12around and the landscape changes you can
1:58:14like debate again in in the new context
1:58:17like yet you know you have the second
1:58:19election campaign for a few weeks
1:58:20suddenly now that the stakes are
1:58:23different and who's against who is
1:58:24different you might want to change your
1:58:26vote like you might think oh like hey if
1:58:28I knew it was good if I knew those two
1:58:29were the two most popular I'd want to
1:58:32hear what they thought about this and
1:58:34that and that it might change the way I
1:58:35vote so what I also think is really
1:58:37valid in a voting system is this whole
1:58:39idea of you know again in theory you
1:58:42should be voting for the person that you
1:58:44totally like that you agree with more
1:58:45and that you like more but let's be
1:58:47honest there's there's a huge amount of
1:58:48the voting system which is well I don't
1:58:50want that person in charge right like
1:58:52I'll take anybody but that person and so
1:58:54I think the two-round system it gives
1:58:56you that moment of saying like okay well
1:58:58I didn't like Joe Bloggs but when Joe
1:59:03Bloggs is running against Bob logs like
1:59:05oh he's that guy's the worst like I'll
1:59:06take anybody over here and it allows you
1:59:08to do that kind of switch like this
1:59:09there's that information change that
1:59:12happens between the rounds it's why
1:59:14something like a ranked system just
1:59:15happens to collect all that information
1:59:17upfront by asking you to order the
1:59:19candidates because that's implicitly
1:59:20what you're doing like would you like
1:59:22this person over this person over that
1:59:25person and then you're able to run like
1:59:27a bunch of theoretical elections like
1:59:30that's again that's the main problem
1:59:31with just a single first-past-the-post
1:59:32election is that you can very often end
1:59:35up with a candidate that the majority of
1:59:39the citizens all agree they'd rather
1:59:42have anybody else than that candidate
1:59:45and at least the two round system
1:59:48prevents that from happening because it
1:59:50allows people in the second round to
1:59:52consolidate around a candidate that
1:59:54everybody prefers to the other person
1:59:56it's fine but I do fine
1:59:56it's fine but I do fine
2:00:00mildly amusing that this massive country
2:00:03which is the nearest country to the
2:00:04country you live in just had this really
2:00:07like tumultuous interesting presidential
2:00:09election and you were just like mm-hmm
2:00:12like hell I plodding away driving your
2:00:15truck simulator and having the time of
2:00:16your life and then I would no idea was
2:00:18happening