Cortex 51: Meeting for Lunch


  hello Mike hi gray I feel like last show

  we really clarified something mm-hmm you

  know what's about to begin

  season two of cortex we did our clip

  show stroke

  looking back on cortex last time and we

  talked about a bunch of things and one

  of them was talking about this idea that

  we you and I are sort of meeting for

  lunch and we're discussing our working

  lives and talking things through and how

  for both of us this is a beneficial


  it's like talking about the thing that

  you're doing helps you do things better

  even if you're not explicitly talking

  about how to make your working life

  better and this is one of these things

  like I find I have this kind of

  conversation with lots of people in my

  life and I feel like this is a learned

  kind of skill but it's it's something

  that almost sounds so banal that people

  don't recognize it as a skill the little

  just thinking in the background about

  how you work and running it over every

  once in a while and thinking about how

  things go and there was a there was a

  particular comment from the reddit that

  I really liked that I felt like summed

  this up and also pointed out the learned

  nature of this skill and it was a

  comment from logic 42 who said the thing

  I've learned from cortex is

  introspection before cortex I just did

  things I didn't think about the process

  of getting things done by simply

  considering the meta problem I began to

  see ways to improve and I feel like I

  feel like that's what we're doing here

  Mike you and I were engaged in the meta

  process and hopefully we're bringing

  listeners along with us on this ride

  and from this comment and the reddit I

  feel like it is evidenced that we are

  accomplishing this thing so you

  mentioned you mention it last time

  mention at this time the idea of of me

  and you just basically having our

  lunches but we've Skype in the middle


  you know where we just sit down and talk

  about the way that we work and that has

  been rattling around in my brain quite a

  lot and I'm thinking about trying to

  find ways to incorporate that that kind

  of process into the show even more than


  mm-hm and one of the reasons is not

  everybody in their lives has this person

  that they're able to talk to so then we

  actually help fulfill that for a lot of

  people I think right like as as is

  pointed out by logic 42 it's just

  sometimes you're just hearing these

  conversations helps people yeah that

  that's what that's a real that's a real

  I don't know I don't know how to explain

  it very well but like I'm not a big

  believer in like the abstract notion of

  like like the self-help section of a

  bookstore right which i think is mostly

  garbage and fraud are' and you say what

  you really think

  luxe tourism right but but I think there

  is like I have found in my own life

  there was there was real value to

  hearing people explaining their thought

  process about why they do a thing and

  I'm aware of like when I listen to

  podcasts that is something I am always

  really interested in it's like oh I want

  to hear somebody explain their reasons

  for doing a thing even if it's like oh

  you have no interest in doing that thing

  or you have no interest in that person

  directly like if there's I think there

  is benefit to being just like exposed to

  this person who's just explaining

  something and I have found that there is

  advantage in hearing someone just like

  talk through their working process which

  then just ends up making me think about

  the way that I do things and the other

  for the other thing that I have I have

  found is is like it is a Taysom what

  rarer skill then I might have first

  imagined in the world like it was a

  thing I was really aware of in

  I working life that I found a lot of my

  colleagues just didn't fall into that

  category of like doing doing that meta

  problem analysis like thinking about why

  things happen as opposed to giving an

  answer like oh we just always do things

  that's why you're like you're just

  sticking with the the first way that a

  thing is being done so that's why I find

  it useful to talk to somebody else like

  yourself and I think that it is it is

  useful to listen to other people doing

  the same thing even if you're not a part

  of that conversation because that's

  something that I have been doing for

  years myself with podcasts about a year

  ago I read this article motherboard

  about professional wrestling podcasts

  and the idea is that and the headline

  says it all really podcasts are group

  therapy sessions for pro wrestling fans

  with the idea being that most people

  that like professional wrestling tend

  not to have somebody else in their life

  that also likes it right right so

  professional wrestling podcasts are so

  popular and they are massively popular

  because these people don't get to talk

  to anybody else about it so they get to

  listen to the podcasts that other people

  make about this stuff ooh and I expect

  that there is a kind of weird similarity

  between those shows on this show and

  that I don't know how many people that

  listen to the show really have somebody

  else in their life that they can talk to

  about their to do system right all right

  but if people get that enjoyment out of

  listening to me and you chat about them

  we have to think we have this very

  similar thing with the pen addict as

  well mm-hmm you know how many people do

  you know in your life that really love

  pens like a very very deep level well

  any and Brad do you know you know it's a

  similar kind of thing yeah it is that's

  definitely the case and like I know

  sometimes when we recording the show I

  have a real feeling of I know that a

  much younger version of myself would

  listen to this show right like I'm aware

  of that as a thing that I feel like

  particularly with the boom of podcast

  like in the last five years

  I feel like this this was not a thing

  that was around particularly like when I

  was a kid was being able to hear people

  just kind of like talk through a bunch

  of stuff and I know like that is

  definitely something I would have

  listened to when I was younger and and

  so that's that's like that's what's

  happening here like we've because I feel

  like sometimes when people describe like

  what that what the show is sometimes

  said like oh it's a Productivity show

  and even right from the start I've

  always felt like that that is never it's

  never quite sat

  or for what this show is but I've never

  been able to figure out a better a

  better way to describe it quickly and

  and we still may not have a good way to

  describe the show quickly but I think

  something about this idea of like this

  open lunch conversation that is around

  the topic of our working lives like that

  that is a more accurate description of

  what the show is and it's really it's

  really like gelled something in my mind

  about what we're doing here and it only

  took 50 episodes to work it out so

  that's pretty good yeah like yeah that's

  the thing like hey listen if you're out

  there and you're starting a podcast let

  this be a lesson to you you may go for

  quite a while before you feel like oh I

  really know what I'm doing here this

  episode of cortex is brought to you by

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  cortex and real AFM why don't we talk

  about productivity a little bit just the

  idea of that phrase and what it means


  because in the same way that people

  refer to this shows being a Productivity

  show I think it's it's it was useful for

  me and you to try and explain what we

  actually think that term even really

  means and how it applies to us because

  productivity I think is very frequently

  mixed up with the term of being a

  workaholic mm-hmm and I don't think that

  that that works very well I've never

  considered myself a workaholic because I

  actually don't know if that is being


  you know like the idea of getting in to

  the office a a.m. and leaving at 7:00

  because you're just so busy mmm that

  never sat with me for me it was always

  about like how can I get out of here at

  5:00 and that was the part that was me

  being productive who's like I need to

  get out of this office as close to five

  o'clock as possible how do I get from

  here at 9:00 a.m. to there at 5:00 that

  more activity for me yeah that was that

  was my exact same thing when I was being

  a teacher what was that like when the

  when the kids go home I want to be going

  home in like 20 minutes after that


  sprint and it's like I really I really

  do like their there are some there are

  some elements of my personality which

  obviously like you just you just have

  like they've just been with me for

  forever but I think that that part of

  being in the working world really honed

  for me like an informed a particular

  idea of of like how I think about a lot

  of things related to work it's like what

  I'm looking for here is maximum

  effectiveness in minimum amount of time

  toward a goal and the goal is to go home

  right as fast as possible yep and yeah

  like spent so much time thinking about

  all of these various ways to save

  seconds on a thing right the like that

  would add up overall weight well that's

  this very different question from like

  raw output I think I don't know if I've

  mentioned it before but one of my

  favorite examples of trying to save time

  was like thinking about the meta thing

  is my least favorite part of the job was

  writing reports for the kids which is

  the whole like long complicated thing

  and there's there was so many things I

  did to try to streamline this process

  but the best bang for the buck ever was

  I had to sign every one of these

  profiles for the kids and I thought one

  day pull anybody notice and or care if

  when I print them off of the printer I

  just put my signature directly on there

  so it's just printed off the pot a

  template yeah on a template and I played

  around with it a little bit so that the

  the signature printing ink looked as

  real as I could make a signature look by

  also lightening the whole rest of the

  document so it looks like I'm signing

  with a slightly darker pen that it's

  being printed right it's like yeah you

  laughs right but it matters because what

  am I doing here like I'm trying to see

  if anyone will care about this thing

  which doesn't make any difference right

  like is the profile any better if I

  personally sign it no because I've been

  working like I'm working on this thing

  anyway and that what that was the thing

  I did and his like man I don't know how

  many hours of time that saved me but the

  answer was

  lot where like things would come back

  like oh you haven't signed this or I

  don't have to sit down and do it that to

  me is like a pure example of a

  Productivity win it's like doesn't

  affect the output at all and decreases

  the amount that I have to do to actually

  get this thing done so when I was

  managing a bank branch I had to sign

  probably more things than you write

  because I'm gonna guess I don't know if

  you know but basically the but the

  branch manager basically puts their

  signature on everything right your a

  signature machine isn't yet they've

  actually hired so I changed my signature

  oh yeah yeah so I just made it this like

  little squiggle as opposed to anything

  that would even slightly resemble my

  name because I was unhappy with the

  amount of time that it would take for me

  to sign everything your kids that is

  productivity right there yeah that is

  what we think for activity is and you

  will not be surprised to hear that I did

  the exact same thing upon becoming a

  teacher very very quickly realized that

  writing out GRE why in a legible way is

  not worth my time septa ball yeah and my

  signature became a recognizable G with a

  line that dipped briefly to like vaguely

  indicate that maybe there's a why here

  and then continued onward and it's like

  yep that's it good enough it's

  identifiable enough when we need to go

  through the paperwork so we know who

  signed what but it's like the minimum

  amount of time I can possibly take is

  like I'm not Precious about my signature

  like the hell with you do you have a

  different signature when you sign

  autographs uh you might not well answer

  that question I don't know

  well the okay so the tricky thing with

  the autographs is I feel I feel

  compelled to include my initials when I

  do the autograph yeah yeah right so it

  it takes long but the the the gray is

  very similar to my teacher signature is

  perhaps a little less stylized because I

  feel I feel like there's there's there's

  a moment of there's a moment of

  importance like when someone has asked

  you to sign a thing like that's a moment

  think about a time on that

  yeah and it's it's it's like a it's also

  like a strange amount of pressure and so

  well I just I just pay more attention

  right where's what I had to sign stuff

  professionally it's like yeah whatever

  like you just need an indication the

  this piece of paper it doesn't need to

  actually look good because I feel like

  signing a thing is a slightly different

  domain area that it has to this look

  better so me and you talking about work

  is not necessarily the same as talking

  about productivity and it's one of the

  reasons that every now and then we talk

  about video games because the

  productivity enables the video games

  right yeah it's the whole thing it's the

  whole piece yeah it's it's like just

  like just like you were saying that you

  want to get at five I wanted to leave as

  soon after the children leave as

  possible it's like the thing the thing

  that has carried through from that is is

  this idea that the work is in service of

  some other goal and my feeling has

  always been like the goal that I am

  aiming for is to build a life that I

  want to live and a life that I want to

  live is is not the same thing as

  producing the maximum number of videos

  that is possible like these things are

  in these things are in conflict it's

  like I want to make videos but I feel

  like all of all of my thoughts around

  work and gradations and the tools we

  talked about and everything we've ever

  done is is a question about effectively

  making videos in a sustainable way in

  the long term and and that's not the

  same thing necessarily as being

  productive in the way that you talk

  about like an economy is productive

  which means like every year the amount

  of copper forged goes up like that's a

  that's a very different way I do think

  it's interesting that people sometimes

  conflate these things and I feel like

  it's it's an interesting thing that is

  sometimes hard hard to can convey is

  this is this idea of like yes I'm very

  concerned with the effectiveness of work

  but that question is not necessarily

  related to the volume of work when you

  see me talking about video games

  you can feel very assured that I have

  been productive right and I feel like

  that statement it could be could be

  written with either our names underneath

  it because it's like if I am able to do

  this it means I've taken care of the


  mmm and and it is like that the

  productivity the idea of getting the

  work done what that is like it is in

  service of that

  mm-hm and it's the that's what year of

  less was mmm and it's what you know I

  I'm six months into my year of less and

  haven't really paid much attention to it

  I was gonna ask about how that was going

  but I am again it popped up in my head

  the other day because I realized that I

  have a much smaller appetite for being a

  part of new projects hmm like relay FM

  can be and is but my involvement my like

  day-to-day direct involvement ie as a

  host who that appetite is going down

  over time so you're talking about your

  desire to do new shows yes mm-hmm

  my problem is my appetite for new ideas

  can never be filled and so I have been

  paying attention to this and doing a

  couple of different things one is I'm

  trying my best to not start new things

  mm-hmm right they're like things pop up

  in my head opportunities come my way and

  I think about them a lot more deeply

  than I would have in the past like and

  if something doesn't feel like a

  complete no-brainer then I I spend more

  time thinking about it like I have spent

  too much time in my career over the last

  seven years of allowing myself to

  completely taken by a whim Lu and some

  of those things have turned out to be

  great and some of them haven't been and

  I need to do a better job and I am doing

  a better job of trying to quantify these

  decisions of a scale that is better than

  just excitement level mm-hmm

  because what I am trying to avoid is an

  inevitable burnout yeah and then a

  slashing of projects because I enjoy all

  of my current projects that's why I do

  them but if I add much more on top of

  that that's going to be a problem so one

  of the other things that I've done to

  prepare myself for this is what I've

  been speaking about for months is that

  getting help

  hmm you know having an assistant now who

  helps me has been a great way to help

  with this because what I'm doing is

  staving off the Burnell with my current

  project level right that's what I've

  done I've secured that so all the stuff

  that I'm currently doing I now feel less

  pressure than I did maybe three or four

  months ago about my current workload

  this is exactly the thing that I was

  going through last year with year of

  less right like is is this exact thing a

  feeling like needing to have more

  specific reasons to pick up a side

  project for example right or needing to

  be able to to take parts of the job and

  try to hand them to somebody else like

  in I want to say before about this idea

  like trying to build a life that you

  want to live like I find it I find it

  really effective when thinking about my

  working life and this has always been

  the case right from the start is the

  most effective thing is to try to

  eliminate or reduce the thing that you

  dislike as opposed to what is often the

  more compelling part which is to add a

  new more exciting thing right and and I

  and I have found that that that is

  definitely held true for me that's like

  time is better invested

  recognising and eliminating or

  outsourcing parts of the business that I

  don't like or that are causing me stress

  like that that is way better for

  building a life that I want to live then

  adding a new thing that I'm super

  excited about like I think excitement is

  almost against it's good it's good to

  have about a project but I think at a

  certain point when you you have a bunch

  of things that are successful it can

  quickly become a kind of I don't know

  like a red herring that you're always

  chasing is like excitement alone at a

  certain point does not become enough to

  justify working on a thing when you're

  already working on a whole bunch of

  things like you have to start thinking

  about stuff in a in a much more ruthless

  way I actually have a related I'll score

  text question so jason wrote in about

  side projects to say do they get really

  bored or distracted and find themselves

  moving on to something new

  very constantly before finishing current

  projects leaving behind like a trail of

  unfinished things mm-hm

  so Jason asks do you have any tips for

  getting over the slump that comes after

  the initial excitement now the reason I

  find these two things to be connected is

  in just what you were saying right

  like that it's way too easy to be

  attracted by that bright light that new

  shiny thing and go to it this is

  something that I have been doing over

  the last six months or so you wanted one

  of the things that I've been thinking

  about with my balance is to find

  excitement in existing projects so to

  like manufacture for myself new things

  to do and to find things within those

  projects to make exciting to find new

  experiences or new ways of thinking

  about something that I'm currently doing

  or shaking something up like I have been

  a real proponent of the stuff that I've

  done in my podcasting career

  of rebranding shows and repackaging

  shows if I have gotten tired of a show

  format to like shake it up give it a new

  name give it a new coat of paint and

  give myself the ability to kind of jump

  in and reboot it before it gets to say

  me for me mm-hmm

  so like I have in the past like I used

  to do this interview show every week

  right I think it had four different

  names over it's like three or four year

  career because it was like a way for me

  to give something a kickstart again and

  to kind of push forward right and and so

  I it's really difficult to find these

  things but it's just something that I've

  been trying to pay more and more

  attention to to like take the projects

  that work really well and add new stuff

  to it as a way to try and keep me

  interested in and invested yeah when we

  related to the the other part of the

  question about you know how do you how

  do you not have a graveyard of on

  unfinished things as I well we all have

  graveyards of unfinished things like I

  have I have a graveyard of unfinished

  things the vast Josie's bigger than most

  right vast vast Arlington Cemetery of

  unfinished things it's it's enormous but

  but one of the things I measure is

  thinking about you know changes that I

  made last year about being more ruthless

  with the kind of projects that I take on

  and what I feel really good about is in

  the last you know since starting the

  year of less I have gotten way better at

  what ends up in that graveyard like I

  feel better about those projects as

  opposed to taking on a bunch of stuff

  that's even if it worked out would have

  just continued to add to my workflow so

  I think one of the biggest things that

  has made it made a huge difference for

  me is is like thinking about new

  projects they have they have to be in

  the category of things that can be

  completed so that they are finished at a

  particular date

  things that can be handed off largely to

  some but somebody else or things that

  add an extremely minimal amount of work

  for a very good payoff and it's like

  when I look at my graveyard of

  unfinished things those projects are

  much more in in that domain than they

  are like oh let me start up a whole

  brand new thing which would give me a

  whole brand new job to do if it turns

  out to be successful so there is a way

  to think about the quality of the things

  going into the graveyard not just the

  number of tombstones that are there it's

  like what is buried matters as opposed

  to just the fact that a thing was buried

  happened I think it's crazy to try to

  avoid to avoid that like and there's

  also there's also the side effect of

  like you just don't know where things

  are going to go sometimes and thinking

  about my my current year right here of

  redirection like I am really happy with

  a bunch of the decisions that I have

  made about how to how to run my business

  this year have directly led to having a

  bunch of free time to be able to noodle

  around with projects that may or may not

  turn into anything but I feel like I

  have a better ability to dedicate a

  bunch of time to a thing that seems

  interesting even if I'm not exactly sure

  where it's going to go and and to just

  evaluate it a little bit before thinking

  about it really seriously so it's it's

  it's a it's a hard it's a hard thing to

  to answer but I do think the graveyard

  of unfinished things is is important to

  keep growing you just need to be mindful

  about how it is growing like what kinds

  of things are going in there like are

  things going in there that like let's be

  honest you were never really going to do

  are like oh like that that Mandarin

  course right you got Rosetta Mandarin

  and you were going to learn that like

  was that really going to happen probably

  not like that doesn't seem like a good

  project so how much value you extracting

  from live streaming your truck

  because you know you talk about minimal

  work I know you spent a significant

  amount of time attempting to

  troubleshoot that thing okay okay all

  right is it I think I think this is

  actually mean right no no you're not

  being me you're not be mean I think this

  is this is a great example because like

  let me take a moment to explain

  something that is probably not obvious

  to the people who are watching the

  streaming so the streaming that has been

  happening in the last couple of weeks is

  totally 100% an example of me changing

  things to have more free time to be able

  to dump a bunch of time in a very narrow

  window into a single project which is

  like I'm gonna figure out how to stream

  right which turned out to be more of a

  technical challenge tonight than I

  expected it would be right but the whole

  way this started is like I can actually

  point I can actually point to the exact

  video which is Hank green of vlog

  brothers and VidCon and crash course and

  a million things very productive ma'am

  yeah he's like the Richard Branson of

  the Internet's he just can't stop

  creating new things Hank did have a

  video on his on his personal Channel

  Hanks channel where he was just going

  through some of the statistics for the

  YouTube channels that he runs they were

  just like talking talking through this

  and I thought like oh this is this is

  exactly the kind of thing I'm really

  interested in to see a little bit of the

  data behind somebody else's business and

  I went to go watch it and the thing that

  kicked off my whole streaming was

  watching him in the very first few

  minutes just simply setting up what he

  was going to do was a live stream

  because he didn't pre record that video

  he was just going to go through it live

  and like take questions from people in

  the comments and talk about some stuff

  and as dumb as this ask is like okay so

  I am a person who is not watch streams

  I'm not really into streaming I feel

  like I never really got it but I was

  watching him do the pre setup and

  something about that suddenly clicked

  where I could see before the show

  was quote ready he was obviously using

  some kind of software to arrange all the

  windows just the way he wanted to put a

  little overlay on it so that it looked

  nice and it's the simplest thing in the

  world but it was a thing that suddenly

  clicked in my head of like ah okay I had

  somehow always thought that streaming

  was simply recording the computer screen

  as you're looking at it which always

  seemed like a huge hassle from my

  perspective but seeing that like oh

  there's a tool to set this up what I

  found about that was like I I don't know

  when I don't know where I don't know how

  but something about this feels like a

  skill that I should add to my repertoire

  of things that I can do on the Internet

  and this is like I feel like my whole

  career is based on trusting some

  instincts in my brain like recognizing a

  certain kind of interest and and this

  was definitely one of those things of

  realizing like I don't know where when

  this might be useful but I think it

  would be good to know how to stream so

  that if I ever want to do it I don't

  have to at that moment invest several

  days in messing around with the software

  and figuring out how to make everything

  look right and getting it all done and

  so the truck streaming project wall is

  partly just fun and interesting to try

  to do the truck streaming one of the

  main purposes of that project is I want

  to have another tool in my tool belt I

  don't necessarily have a purpose for it

  now but I have a gut feeling that maybe

  at some point I will want to know how to

  do this and and be able to do it

  immediately and I'm like I'm investing

  that time now this is so funny to me why

  because what you had watching Hank is

  what I have watching you so when I saw

  you doing it I'm realized like you were

  talking about the tools that you were

  using mm-hmm

  I then realized oh this isn't what I

  thought it was right I could do that

  look that's how

  Arius I cut that's so funny cuz like I

  it's been in my head I can't get out of

  my head like I keep I keep looking at

  these like streaming boxes and stuff

  and I just want to show everybody how I

  play Zelda right but this is this is a

  perfect example of you know last year

  gray wouldn't really have had the time

  to guilt free just do this at like and I

  know I'm always mentioning side projects

  like there's a bunch of stuff that

  people just don't see like this is two

  of the things I'm working on which like

  people just don't see but this is an

  example of a thing that people can see

  but I just don't think it's I think a

  lot of people watching it aren't aware

  of like what is what is it that I'm

  doing here and and this is what I'm

  doing I'm intentionally trying to add a

  skill to the list of things that I can

  do on the Internet okay and as as a

  self-employed person who like cobbles

  together a bunch of skills to to make it

  work together in a productive way like

  this just seems to me like a skill that

  I should definitely have ready to go

  even if I'm not using it intensely at

  any particular moment I think anybody

  that is self employed should or does

  have this about them especially if you

  work in a creative space because at any

  point the thing that you do could go

  away yeah and having a vast skill set

  which you can apply to other things is

  very important it is the reason that I

  started making YouTube videos yeah but

  yeah that's it that's exactly that's a

  great comparison right as you just you

  want to be aware of other things and the

  other thing as well as like aside from

  just trying to figure out technically

  how to do a thing there was a real part

  of my brain which just felt like I don't

  understand streaming on the Internet as

  in I don't really understand why people

  watch streams I don't understand really

  what's going on on the streams it's just

  is it was just outside of my domain of

  expertise but I also think like this

  this is an important meta skill to

  cultivate is

  curiosity over dismissal right it's it's

  really easy to dismiss things as like oh

  whatever those people are doing like

  they're watching people play video games

  live like isn't that dumb alright

  because like is it dumb or do you just

  not understand what they're doing and

  and I feel like that was also part of

  this processes like I want to have an

  intuitive understanding of what this is

  and I think I have a much better

  understanding of it now than I did

  before I started it's very difficult to

  articulate I feel in this in the same

  way that like I've always said like with

  teacher training there's just so much

  stuff you just have to do in a classroom

  like the no amount of learning ahead of

  time will actually prepare you for it

  like you just have to be in charge of a

  bunch of kids before you really get what

  teachers mean when they say like

  consistency is really important it's

  like you but you don't understand until

  you're there and I feel like there was

  something similar about that with the

  streaming like I don't feel like I get

  it 100% yet but I feel like um 75% of

  the way there but it's very difficult to

  articulate because it's just a thing

  that you have to do and and that is

  what's going on in in this side project

  of mine is skill acquisition and feeding

  curiosity about new things that are

  coming along instead of just ignoring

  them potentially to the detriment of my

  business in the future

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  this show the people have spoken gray I

  don't think it's legitimate Mike because

  you riled them up it doesn't matter they

  they needed to know first and once I let

  them know they felt the need to request

  in droves in waves of cortex listeners

  want to know why you left the iPhone se

  and went back to the iPhone 7 I just

  want to again get it on record here that

  I feel like you fomented a mob right

  that's that's what you did last time I

  think that it's really unfair for you to

  refer to our listeners that way to turn

  this around all I'm doing I'm just

  trying to provide them with some

  information to let them choose you know

  we didn't hear from anyone that

  specifically said they didn't want to

  hear about this yeah yeah yeah that's


  cuz that's who that's who you hear tons

  from is the people who don't want to

  hear about a thing if they really don't

  want to know tell you you know that's

  enough they don't you never you never

  get the people who say no if I feel like

  the silent majority they're not being

  represented here but I know Mike I feel

  like um I feel so hesitant to tell the

  story because I feel like it's a tale of

  woe right a tale of woe and there have

  been many tales of woe about Apple stuff

  that is probably why I just I sort of

  haven't wanted to talk about it so I

  don't I don't know where to begin how

  long ago did you move away from the

  iPhone se uh okay so it was it was

  actually like days before you spotted me

  using the iPhone 7 cult you know okay if

  you want to use the word caught if you

  want to frame this in a particular way

  you go right ahead

  well all I remember is the look on your

  face when I asked you what that was

  and you just looked at me and you said

  you didn't want to talk about it in your

  pocket no no don't you don't you jealous

  I'm all teary that is and then we didn't

  see you again for the rest of the

  weekend no just to be clear

  Mike is full of lies and nothing

  happened at the Google conference there

  what actually happened is I was just

  using it in front of him

  and he asked me about it I was like I

  don't want to get into it now and then

  whatever this is

  six months later I still have to get

  into it I just want to let our listeners

  know that this has been something that I

  have been trying to get great to talk

  about for six months now every now and

  then it's just sat in our show document

  and I move it in and then gray adds a

  little line that says I'm not ready to

  talk about this yet but clearly some

  timers heal all wounds well no I mean

  mostly it's just that like we're getting

  we're getting up to new iPhone season so

  if we don't talk about it like we'll

  have wasted a topic right that's that's

  what's that's what's happened also

  there'll be like a confusion gap when

  you talk about moving from one phone to

  the other yeah yeah there'll be a

  confusion gap okay so I guess I guess

  the place to start is like what did i do

  what did I do

  what was my initial reasoning here right

  is this is partly connected to what I

  was thinking about four-year of


  which now I can't even remember what the

  hell the original idea what I was gonna

  call it was your new I think maybe we

  thought what was seems like you yeah

  which was get the wrong name in every

  sense yeah the exact opposite of what I

  was actually intending to do you may

  also call a year of more yeah yeah

  exactly you're more by which I will

  actually be doing less I mean more or

  less right yeah in the year of less what

  did I do more I did more more than I've

  ever done like but you have to

  understand the way I mean these words

  people uh but so anyway looking forward

  to what I was thinking about doing

  towards the end of 2016 and throughout

  2017 one of the things that was on my

  list was more traveling in a bunch of

  different ways more more traveling both

  for personal reasons and more traveling

  for business

  reasons and that is definitely something

  that has happened as I anticipated like

  I've been on way more flights in the

  last six to eight months then I've been

  on in the past many years in the last

  six months maybe in the last year I have

  seen you more overseas than in London I

  said yeah you know what I think you're

  right yeah I think I think you are

  totally right about that yeah I do not

  think that is an exaggeration um so yeah

  I don't always mention it on on podcast

  buts like I've done more traveling than

  I thought I make reference to and I was

  thinking about this and part of my like

  one of the big things that's frustrating

  about traveling for me is a kind of

  range anxiety about the batteries in the

  devices that I use I feel like so much

  of my life is just spent around managing

  batteries yeah and it's getting like it

  is really getting worse like I feel like

  I've crossed some kind of threshold

  where there's just so many batteries to

  worry about it drives me crazy it is by

  far and away one of my biggest

  complaints about technology in the

  modern world yeah is battery management

  and like let like laying out all my gear

  and obsessively trying to figure out

  what's the minimum number of wires that

  I can take that will cover all of these

  devices and it's it's it's frustrating

  and it's it's yeah it's annoying and in

  particular the device that you do not

  want to die on you while you're

  traveling is the phone what this does

  the most important thing that you want

  to keep alive and basically what I was

  thinking of is like I wanted to try the

  iPhone 7 with the battery pack because

  since ever since the the iPhone the the

  first time was the 6 of the 6s I don't

  remember where they came out with the

  battery pack which I think you actually

  showed me first on this podcast someone

  I think that was you yeah you hadn't

  seen it yeah yeah that's what it was I

  hadn't seen it and I was expecting

  abject horror from

  you but you have but you were very

  interested in it yeah I was very

  interested in it and I was super annoyed

  they didn't make it for the the six plus

  or the 6s plus whatever it was at the

  time so ever since that came out when my

  wife and I go traveling she uses her

  phone with the battery pack and I've

  always been hugely impressed by how long

  her phone lasts even when she's doing

  some intensive pokey hunting as we're

  traveling around the world right it's

  like look like you got to catch them all

  Mike that was also mindful I think so I

  was like I was always very interested in

  that and I feel like I have terrible

  luck with iPhone batteries like my

  iPhone it just it feels like it never

  lasts as long as it should I feel like I

  barely use my phone and it makes it

  through half the day and if I'm

  traveling and I've mentioned this to you

  in a numerous times like if I'm going to

  Amsterdam right or if I'm flying I swear

  to god it's like the battery just drops

  like a rock I feel like I'm not touching

  you like I put you in low-power mode

  straight away I've just left you in my

  pocket like I'm specifically not

  touching you phone and it's like it just

  just drops the battery just dropped so

  fast it's a huge frustration I have a

  suspicion that it's related to low

  signal but that's what the phone that's

  what's causing the problem is there's

  lots of situation with the signal is low

  in the battery just drops yeah that that

  is like the most surefire way to destroy

  a phone battery is when it's searching

  for a network yeah like I'm sitting on a

  train and I can feel it warm in my

  pocket and it's like what are you doing

  phone is like oh you're you're switching

  cell carriers every every five minutes


  you know it's like just even around

  London like even just today I had a like

  a very normal morning where I barely

  used the phone and I got home at noon

  and the battery was down to 50% as like

  oh right but I spent some time in some

  low signal areas like it's just an

  endless frustration and it's

  particularly bad on traveling so I

  thought you know what I'm gonna do I'm

  gonna try to use the iPhone 7 with the

  battery pack because if I'm if I'm

  traveling a bunch this is really

  important to me to not lose the battery

  this doesn't feel like enough well let

  me just like the thing I've been

  interested to see is like because I've

  been going to some conferences I'm aware

  of like how much more the phone really

  matters a conference

  in ways that I wouldn't have expected

  like it's interesting just to go now

  you're totally right is is this enough

  there's a few other things that have

  happened one of the primary things

  that's happened which I really don't

  want to get into it like I feel like

  there's so many stories here but like I

  just don't want to get into all of them

  so we're going to try to move past some

  things but one of them is one of the big

  reasons why I moved down to the iPhone

  se was also if you remember I had taken

  up running around that time and running

  with a plus-size phone is like a total

  deal-breaker it's a it's a real pain in

  the butt to have a plus-size phone can

  literally be a pain in the butt it can

  literally be a pain like I'm on my

  running gear the only pocket like the

  leasts are the least uncomfortable

  pocket is like a pocket on the back and

  then it is literally a pain in the butt

  you can't fit with us nowhere to live no

  there's no way to live so I switched out

  to BSE is like a huge advantage while

  running like enormous advantage while

  running now and I was running three

  times a week up again like story I don't

  want to get into I eventually decided

  like I had give running enough of the

  try and realized I hate you running I

  thought this is not for me this is no

  story you need to explain to me there is

  of all physical exertion running is my

  least favorite like I hate running up a

  passion there is I don't understand how

  anybody enjoys it my brother just ran

  the London Marathon oh I enjoyed it yeah

  and I don't understand how that is a

  thing that is possible for a human to to

  experience I just can't I just called

  out yeah so it's like I wanted to give

  it a fair try I felt like I gave it a

  fair try and could reasonably come to

  the conclusion that like this is not for

  me I don't like so happy cuz I really

  was annoyed that you were running I

  never mentioned it but I hate it why did

  you hate it I just felt like of everyone

  that I know you would be the person that

  would also not like running well guess


  you're right I'm so happy to hear this

  so I switch running for the exercise I

  vastly prefer which is cycling and so

  it's like okay

  in cycling like you're on a bike it's a

  whole different equipment set up right

  you have you like baskets to hold things

  there's like you're bringing equipment

  with you you have them like it's just a

  totally different set up and so that

  like cycling well you know I can't win

  every time with you Mike but so that was

  the case we're like the SE it didn't

  matter so much I thought like I'm gonna

  give I'm gonna give the seven to try and

  what I was what I wanted to also try was

  if I just use this with the battery pack

  all the time right not just for

  traveling if I just use it with the

  battery pack can I get used to the

  physical size that I don't like does the

  battery pack make it big enough in my

  hands that it's not uncomfortable to use

  and so like that that's what I wanted

  that's what I wanted to try I still feel

  like there is an important part of this

  though oh oh yeah there is sorry there

  is there is one more thing okay there is

  one more thing which I will straight up

  acknowledge is a kind of personality

  flaw with me but is the thing like I

  recognize about myself and the thing

  that I recognize is if I'm using

  something and I feel like that thing has

  no future I have a very hard time

  continuing to use it okay and I became

  more and more convinced that I was just

  using a dead phone what about it being

  old it was that - that play into it you

  were using an old product the oldest

  like I know you will think that that is

  the the factor but that is very minor

  factor it's it's much more that I just

  kept being convinced like I don't think

  Apple is ever going to make a phone in

  this size again okay

  didn't want to get too used to again

  yeah that was kind of it like I I loved

  that phone but it was it just kept

  niggling in the back of my mind that

  it's like well like this phone is

  already dead right in my hands like I'm

  just I'm like I'm like a sucker holding

  on to a bygone era

  and like this is this is a part of my

  personality which again like sometimes

  I'll recognize that it can be a flaw and

  sometimes it is amazing but it's like I

  just I cannot look backward like I have

  a really hard time with that and even if

  something in the present feels like in

  the future it will be backward I'm like

  now this I can't I can't deal with this

  cuz you know the whole time I'm sitting

  here thinking like there is a myriad of

  battery cases that would fit the iPhone


  okay so slight other thing I had already

  tried doing a whole bunch of battery

  cases with the SE and all of them had

  various frustrations and a long story

  short none of them worked as well as the

  battery case on the seven not not even

  close so I use battery cases I had used

  battery case on the SE while traveling

  and they were better than nothing

  but so the conclusion of this is like

  okay so I tried these various reasons I

  got the seven I got the battery case and

  my experience of it was this battery

  case is glorious because it finally

  takes the phone into like what that what

  the Apple watch is where it's like I

  don't ever have to really think about

  this as long as I plug it in for some

  amount of time once in the day I never

  have to think about what the battery is

  on this phone and over time that case

  for me like now I am used to it the way

  it looks when I see it because initially

  it was like one of the ugliest things

  I've ever seen Apple make because it's

  like this hump on the back of the phone

  mm-hmm I have also since held one mmm

  and it is really a tale of function over

  form it is stupid to have this just like

  a hump on the back of the phone for many

  reasons I think it looks really weird

  and like you put it down on the table

  and you press something in on the phone

  that it flips over when you're holding

  it in your hand like you rest your hand

  kind of around the bump and it actually

  is really nice to hold and it doesn't

  feel like how a lot of these battery

  cases feel where you feel like you've

  doubled the thickness of your phone yeah

  yeah that's the other problem is like

  apples using a lot of their own


  and they're able to pull a bunch of

  tricks part of which is that they're

  using the female lightning connector on

  the bottom which is a huge win again

  because if talking about battery

  management is like the number of cable

  if I can make the number of cables less

  this is a win it's like if I can avoid a

  microUSB that's fantastic

  like I don't want to have to have one of

  these yeah that sucks it's a real

  annoyance but I have I have just nothing

  but tremendous praise for the battery

  case for the seven and it to me it feels

  like what the battery of a phone should

  be which is I can even with reasonably

  heavy use on a travel day expect that

  this phone will make it till the end of

  the day without being plugged in which I

  just I don't feel like that's a lot to

  ask but I know that with modern phone

  design it apparently is yeah they would

  do it if they could yeah everyone wants

  this everybody knows this like but there

  they just whatever all funds seem to not

  really be able to provide it

  yeah now the other thing which again

  this is for my personality in particular

  is I I might over value wins that take

  something off my mental plate and so

  feeling like I never have to think about

  the battery of this phone is such an

  outsized win in my mind it's hard to

  explain it's the same way like with you

  know with the Apple watch it's like the

  fact that I never have to think about

  this that sometimes I have I have worn a

  watch for two days in a row without even

  charging it it's like it's such a win

  that I don't have to think about it I

  love that and especially with battery

  management I totally love it so on a

  number of different travelling occasions

  all of which happened in very rapid

  succession after you saw me and Ireland

  with seven I was using the 7 I was like

  this battery case is amazing this this

  is fantastic this is this is really

  great but here's the thing like I tried

  so hard I tried so hard to like the size

  of the 7 with the battery case making it

  a little bigger

  but I just couldn't I just couldn't

  I find that sighs for me it is the

  physically wrong size it's uncomfortable

  to use over a long period of time it's

  not small enough to use one-handed it's

  too small to use two-handed it doesn't

  turn sideways so that I can use it two

  handed oh my god just slowly slowly

  drove me crazy he doing what I think

  you're doing right now and I I had to

  let it go and so you don't you don't

  know what I'm doing but I'm using this

  seven plus now yes because that was the

  only place - gasps I know you get it I

  know you're happy about you Zack to me

  this is I didn't expect it to go this

  way no one do you have one to talk to me

  about it you know it's really funny Mike

  I have used the seven plus in front of

  you and you've never noticed because

  it's the correct natural human being

  phone it's like I have I have hidden

  nothing from you I just there was a

  couple of times when I was using this

  the seven in front of you and you just

  you just didn't pick up on it so I just

  I thought that was funny but but yeah

  it's like I tried like I have never

  tried as hard as I tried to really like

  the seven with the battery case like I

  just I desperately wanted to really like

  it but I just I just couldn't get over

  the physical uncomfortableness of that

  size for me and that but this is why

  like I feel like this is this this tale

  of woe right of like where am I going in

  this product line they're their main

  product line it's like physically

  uncomfortable for me like I just don't

  like it

  they have two other sizes with both of

  which I do like like I still really like

  the small size right I still really like

  the plus but but each of these have

  other disadvantages that their main line

  of phone doesn't have so which is it's

  just frustrating I feel like I don't

  have a really good home in this line

  because I'm using I'm using the seven

  plus but that actually doesn't get very

  much better battery life than the S II

  did like if you look on the battery life

  tests there are many times at the S II

  actually outperforms a seven plus

  because even though the battery is way

  bigger the screen is also way bigger

  right which drain out the battery it's

  and it's like I'm back in the same

  position of when I'm traveling having to

  do the mental management of battery on

  this phone and it's just frustrating

  like I was on a trip recently and I was

  just aware like I was out I was taking a

  walk like in a city and I was having a

  really nice time but I was also we're

  like oh my phone is down at 5% on low

  battery mode I've thrown it into

  airplane mode and I need to make sure

  that I have enough battery to get me

  back when I'm done with walking around

  right and it's like I hate that I hate

  having to pay attention to it I hate the

  way that Apple does the low-power mode

  where you have to manually turn it on so

  if you miss it like you can burn through

  the last bit of your battery like I just

  I find it very very frustrating it's

  like I wish I wish they would make a

  battery case with a bigger phone but

  they don't and yeah

  so that's that's why I mic I feel like

  it's a big tale of woe is connected to

  everything in my life and that's and

  that's where we are but I know that at

  least you're going to be happy that I'm

  using the 7 plus there is a lesson to be

  learned here gray what is that lesson

  like that when Mike was right he remains

  that way oh yeah yeah is that the lesson

  to be learned here yep I don't know if

  that's a lesson like I think it is hmm I

  just you know I just like you know I'm

  sure the listeners can hear my voice

  like I'm I'm genuinely frustrated and

  this is all the other like big thing

  this is connected to which I feel like I

  barely even want to mention but is these

  rumors that like the next the next

  iPhone they're their flagship phone is

  going to be the same size as the current

  7 and maybe there's another generation

  of like 7s that symbolize like I just I

  just feel frustrated with maybe the way

  that this is going to go like I'm

  worried about what their next phone is

  going to be if it's the same size as the

  7 so that's that's also why I feel like

  I might even here just have some kind of

  stay of execution with the plus size

  phone I don't know I really I struggle

  to understand why you find that 7 size

  so uncomfortable though like I just

  think it's it's it's not worth it I just

  figure you may as well go to the top

  right you know because I just think it


  the most sense to go with the plus foam

  over the regular size one I just think

  that you get a lot everything that you

  get you get more of the kind of just

  think that it makes to me just makes so

  much more sense but like you seem

  much more sense but like you seem

  to have this like real anti like

  visceral anti reaction to the size of

  that phone in in a way that I don't

  think I fully understand I mean one of

  the places I feel at the most intensely

  is with the keyboard like I'm really

  just aware the keyboard when I'm typing

  it's just a little too big to

  comfortably type with one hand right and

  then when I bring my other hand over to

  it's now too small

  well I mean you know the solace that you

  may get from this new phone is

  apparently the screen will be a similar

  size to the plus just in a smaller body

  so stuff like that it might not feel too

  bad you'll have more screen real estate

  to actually use both hands with I feel

  like I need to see a 7 plus overlaid on

  a 7 to understand the relative size of

  these things because I'm like I've been

  reading all of the articles about like

  what what the new size might be industry

  like isn't it just a taller screen it's

  not actually a whole lot wider and say

  well that's that's not that doesn't help

  anything you can actually get this

  experience now you can go to a phone

  store and try the Galaxy S a similar

  dimensions hmm I might actually do that

  just just to let my mind rest a little

  bit about this like there's that the two

  sizes they're both like smaller than the

  iPhones but they have bigger screens and

  both of them hmm I might literally do

  that this whole shoes whole bunch of

  like galaxies um

  pop-up stores all around London they're

  ever lettest yeah they're everyone they

  are everywhere to get you to go in and

  try out the phone like you can't you

  can't walk around without them I get

  scared every time I leave the house now

  I'm gonna return home with one it's a

  real fear that I have whenever I go into

  central London I'm I do my very best to

  avoid the coffin warehouse I just can't

  go near it

  because I see it I get sucked in the

  only time I went to look at one and have

  held one was when they weren't for sale

  but they had them in the stores and well

  I can't buy one right now so this is

  safe I love that design man yeah no it

  looks good it looks good but like that I

  just I'm just concerned I'm concerned

  about where this is going in the future

  and edges

  because I feel like I'm set I'm

  sensitive to that size I'm like extra

  worried I'm extra worried that that I've

  just again like bought myself to stay of

  execution I hope you're happy now

  listeners do you have the story today's

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  supporting cortex and real afm so now

  you've been on this like vision quest of

  device to device to device a trail of

  sadness uh-huh there is like you know we

  were talking earlier about this

  graveyard of ideas there must be some

  graveyard of iPhones somewhere like what

  what even happened to all these funds

  they like in in use in various ways

  playing different sound effects remember

  at your house or something like well

  that's ridiculous Mike oh right yeah yep

  yep who would have who would have use

  for three phones no nobody nobody would

  have use for three phones now for on the

  other hand the iPhone the iPhone 7 went

  on to someone who could use it so that

  is that is gone but no the SE the multi

  phone lifestyle Bessie has ended up

  filling a very interesting role

  in my life now several shows ago people

  were asking why the hell don't you just

  use two phones you idiot

  alright that's like if you have the if

  there's things you like about one and

  don't like by the other like just used

  to and my frustration is there's no way

  software wise to use two phones if

  you're all in on the Apple ecosystem

  health data is locked to a single phone

  and Apple watches are locked to a single

  phone so if you want to try to use two

  phones and you're also tracking your

  health and use an Apple watch it's just

  a it's just a total non-starter because

  data and notifications are not going to

  seamlessly move back and forth between

  the two of them but I found an

  interesting an interesting sort of case

  that has worked out quite nicely because

  while I've been using the the plus and I

  do like a lot of the advantages of the

  plus like the bigger screen is nice

  particularly for reading ebooks like it

  is nice to have that out and about but

  the place I didn't like the Plus very

  much is in the house because if I have a

  phone in my pocket like it's still a big

  phone right whenever you sit down I'm

  always really aware of it physically

  like in my pocket and if I would take it

  out I would sort of lose it around the

  house because I didn't remember where I

  was putting it down and so I don't have

  a day phone and a night phone but I have

  ended up with a house phone and an

  outdoor phone because here's the thing

  when I'm in the house the seven-plus

  sits on a little charger and all of the

  notifications that I would get from the

  seven-plus through my Apple watch all of

  that stuff still works like all of the

  fussy way that I have set up the phone

  to notify me when I want with particular

  like with a particular watch setup all

  of that still works because the phone is

  in the house on the Wi-Fi connected to

  the watch and then I can just use the SE

  as a little pocket phone right for in

  the house and this this is fantastic

  because now it doesn't take up a whole

  bunch of space

  I can still use it to control all the

  lights in my house I can use it to send

  back a quick text message to someone if

  I need to like all of all of the useful

  stuff that you would use a phone for in

  your house I can use little se for which

  I totally love a little se for it it's

  perfect for that so now now the routine

  is when I come home I simply just swap

  the phones the seven plus goes on the

  charger and I take off the SE and the SE

  is the house phone and the seven plus is

  the outdoor phone so I'm still using

  both of them and I still really like

  both of them each is adapted to a

  perfect ecological niche now you gave

  only two use cases there so I mean might

  be to dig into this a little bit more

  you said if I need to send back a quick

  reply to a message I need to filter all

  my lights hmm

  you can do both of these extremely

  adequately with your watch you can use

  the home app or the home complication to

  control the lights or you can ask Siri

  and you can also send canned responses

  speak into the watch or draw on the

  watch to say yeah you can send canned

  responses but there's tons of like I

  have OmniFocus to set up on the little

  phone like I have I have a whole bunch

  of the normal stuff that I would use now

  it works on the watch but not for

  entering have you ever tried to actually

  enter something complicated on the watch

  with OmniFocus like good luck with that

  all right

  also the Notes app which I use all the

  time to just capture some thoughts like

  there's a tons of stuff that the phone

  does yeah but like that's useful with a

  little keyboard like the watch is not

  replacing that from what you've

  mentioned me and then the show in the

  past you don't like live in a manor

  house no we have three rooms with the

  amount of iPads that I know that you own

  surely there is never a device out of

  reach there are times when there is a

  device out of reach like if I'm in the

  kitchen is particularly the case where

  like there's not an iPad Within Reach

  in the kitchen right that is by far and

  away the time that is most useful to

  have the phone there in a kitchen iPad

  no no we don't need a kitchen knife at

  that's crazy talk like oh right that's

  sorry that's crazy talk I've pushed it

  too far yeah you have pushed it too far

  I find it is just more convenient

  sometimes to have a device in the pocket

  to respond to certain kinds of things or

  to make notes of certain kinds of things

  so I find it really useful I like it for

  that there's also a way

  which that little phone I have just set

  up to be default connected to some of

  the speakers in our house then also just

  uses like a little podcast machine for

  when I'm playing podcasts around the

  house I really like it as this as this

  smaller device to just have with me to

  do a few minor things and then I don't

  have to have the big bulky seven plus in

  my pocket when I'm walking around the

  house all the time I'm telling you Mike

  you're thinking I'm ridiculous now but

  I'm just gonna wait just gonna wait

  until you have a house Knoll outdoor

  phone I followed you down the multipad

  lifestyle yeah you thought that was

  crazy look who's laughing now

  no there is no realm in wit now I really

  don't think this is gonna happen either

  I just love it if it did I I like really

  don't like any iPhone sighs other than

  the plus ya and the so then I would have

  to that doesn't make I mean I wouldn't

  have to put that there's no point right

  right yeah uh this this one this is a

  bridge too far for me this one I'm

  afraid this is a bridge too far for just

  about anyone I think it should be as

  well yeah that this is basically me

  solving the problem of I don't like

  having the big phone in my pocket but I

  also still want a phone in my pocket

  when I'm in the house I don't know about

  this one gray I'm not sold on this okay

  I am I am genuinely not trying to sell

  you on this I know you know I am I am

  not trying to sell anyone on this just

  to be clear I can really see why you

  didn't want to talk about all of this

  now cuz you've had to let me win again

  with with the superior phone sighs I'm

  actually totally fine having you having

  you win on this one with the with the

  big bust size it's it's just like I feel

  like this is connected to everything in

  my like there's so much we haven't even

  discussed here that I felt like mentally

  exhausted discussing this at all it's

  like so many so many rabbit holes we

  could go down to great we can come back

  to this another time then no no we don't

  need to go down this again okay that's I

  mean maybe we will when the next fella

  comes out no I'm sure they'll be a lot

  there'll be a lot of that come September

  will there be anything to discuss with


  found surely not there enough surely not

  neveress let's end our productivity show

  talking a little bit about America truck

  simulator again ooh

  everyone's favorite segment struck time

  the point of all work is to drive a

  pretend truck ultimate so it makes sense

  that at the end of the show we get there

  right like that's that's it

  listen to the show Stephen wrote in to

  let me know I didn't know this that

  apparently there is beta support for VR

  and American Truck Simulator did you

  know about this oh yeah of course I know

  about that I didn't know about this it

  has been around for a while and it's

  pretty buggy but it does work mm-hmm now

  that is a it's just an increasingly more

  intriguing aspect of this game to be

  completely immersed in it you know that

  it feels like it's just an added level

  yeah look I don't know when I don't know

  how but at some point in some way I'm

  gonna be driving an imaginary truck in

  VR like this like this is coming this is

  in my future I sent this to you today I

  saw this on the verge this this gaming

  PC called the Corsair one which is very

  intriguing to me I didn't get a chance

  to look at this super properly I'm

  guessing that it's essentially a Windows

  PC that's set up to be like a game

  console is that what it is that's

  exactly what it is so it is small and it

  has everything and you buy all in one

  package so again I apologize to all the

  PC gamers in the audience because I

  cannot imagine how hard they're rolling

  their eyes to the idea that this is the

  PC that intrigues us like the one that

  is created to being not that right like

  that it is made to be like a games

  console but this is finally like the PC

  that makes I think the most sense for me

  if I was going to go down this route

  like it is a PC that is designed in part

  to be put on a desk mmm like it is it is

  I think a little bit taller but similar

  ish dimensions to the Mac Pro woohoo and

  I'm very intrigued by this because like

  as I said like one of the things that I

  really didn't want

  was to have a big box for this stuff and

  this is not going to be the most

  powerful PC I get that but like I think

  that this looks to me like it a little

  bit of reading about it it looks to me

  like the best middle ground for a lot of

  this stuff yeah I haven't had a chance

  to look at super fully I'm just glancing

  at the at the website now and going

  through some of this stuff I can say I

  have not been more tempted by any PC in

  the last 15 years than this one

  Yeah right like this this looks like oh

  well well hello Corsair one yeah cuz it

  looks the styling is not too much it

  looks like a games console in styling

  mmm but just the idea that it is so

  we've both done this right like we mean

  you have spent quite a bit of time just

  like looking at what is available in the

  PC gaming market yeah and my biggest

  problem is I just don't know what I'm

  looking for building a PC there's no

  there's no way to cut it like it's just

  a bigger deal than buying a Mac my

  buying a Mac is like guess what you've

  got a couple options and you know what

  just to get because like I remember when

  I used to build PCs and buy pcs it's

  like you need to know a bunch of stuff

  and this feels like exactly what I'm

  looking for us like look I just you just

  make it for me put it in a cylinder I

  want to think about this thing as little

  as possible alright like what what I

  want to do is be able to turn this on

  and boot into steam as fast as possible

  yep that's that is my goal here and I

  don't want to have to have an entire

  room in my house set up with like a

  whole other set up like this just this

  looks really really tempting and if it

  can run VR it's like well maybe

  TRUCKING VR with Corsair one could be a

  possibility and I saw that they're

  making double trailers you excited about

  this like you can have two trailers

  attached to a truck I love that I love

  that you're following the trucking news

  Mike III

  pay more attention to the trucking news

  than I do play it I'm just I started

  following the SDS software Twitter

  account I think because they tweeted

  about you and I thought that was really

  funny yeah so idea they tweeted

  something about like I got my pizza or

  whatever when I was playing the key yeah

  I think I think you'd retweeted or

  something and I'm sorry I was like all I

  like these these people that's cool what

  I really want them to do though is to

  make an actual multiplayer experience

  there are mods mmm like it looks like

  there's like this server or something

  that you can use it that there look

  there are mods for multiplayer games and

  the reason this interests me is that as

  null on Twitter sent us a tweet that

  intrigues me greatly about the idea of

  me and you driving down the road

  together as a claw text episode like

  talking over CB radio I feel like this

  is Hugh just trying to get into my

  office in a different way Mike right now

  this that's what this feels the

  multiplayer is not local it's online no

  it I know it's not local but something

  about this feels like the thin end of

  the wedge right that that's what this

  feels like

  we need to land pile in this thing I

  have great internet yeah see that's

  exactly it right you know yeah well it

  will start remotely like Oh it'll be a

  LAN party and then it'll be like so

  where are you during the day

  oh that's that's that's gonna happen

  here I I think that you are taking my

  innocent very innocent idea just wanted

  to play a video game you know and you're

  turning it into this thing

  she's unfair I don't think it is unfair

  I think I know how your Mike mind works

  all I want to do is just is just drive a

  truck with you I don't think that that's

  too much to ask I like driving my truck

  alone right that's that's what I like

  it's not going to be in the same truck

  so it's a solitary experience Mike and

  driving a truck across solitary

  experience that you shared with

  thousands on the Internet

  yeah but it's different they're not

  driving trucks I mean someone could be

  right that's actually not true some of

  them are but you know it's look I'm just

  I'm trying to just say it's it's like an

  experience it's a solitary

  desert experience that sometimes shared

  with a couple thousand passengers but

  mostly solitary experience

  let's truck driving