190: ‘Anything Luxury’, With Special Guest Ben Thompson
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lots to talk about what do you want to
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start with you wanna start with this
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Microsoft build keynote yeah it was it
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was interesting as you watch it now I
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didn't watch it I was going to whoever
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uh yeah sorry I failed to value out
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there uh it was it was good uh it was
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funny I really liked it the as I was
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listening to it he like there was a very
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much a sort of coherent vision you know
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that took the idea of you know Microsoft
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but you know by necessity has to kind of
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you know weep over the the mobile sort
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of area and to extent they certainly
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have in the cloud but kind of painting a
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vision beyond that and kind of from a
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big picture what I liked best is that at
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previous builds there's always two
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keynotes yeah and the first day is
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usually sort of the windows keynote and
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the second day is the azure keynote and
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this year it's the opposite as er is the
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first day in Windows the second day and
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I think that's appropriate because
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that's realistically where Microsoft's
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growth and opportunities are so so from
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that perspective I you know I enjoyed it
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I think the the problem though is all
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that stuff on the edge Mike I'll talk
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about building a sort of thing from the
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from the quality of the edge like they
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don't have very many edge end points and
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that continues to be a problem hmm
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edge being the devices that people use
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is that what you mean yeah yeah exactly
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I mean even on in not just mobile
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devices but also sort of on computers I
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mean the big computer the big criticism
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of always have for Microsoft and even
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under saturated data is they've done a
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great job of sort of you know locking in
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the folks that they've always had but if
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you're a new company starting today
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which piece of Microsoft software are
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you going to buy and why and Microsoft
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doesn't have a very good answer for that
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question yeah that's a very good point
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I would buy none yeah you right I mean
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it you would probably buy Excel right
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yeah I have office just e5 actually use
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that for for my email in it in part
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because I vastly prefer using email on
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an offline client even if it's outlook
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as opposed to the problem Gmail is I
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have it I have an assistant so I have
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some shared mailboxes
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and it only supports shared mailboxes
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through the online interface so that's
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obviously the reason why I use obviously
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five but the uh but yeah but I mean
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beyond that I used Google Docs for a
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year for you or Google Apps I should say
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irreverence called for for the first
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several years and there's times I miss
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it times I don't yeah but but
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realistically this it's not really if it
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wasn't for my own personal I can choose
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software based my own personal foibles
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if I were an administrator sir Ector II
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was a larger company I'm sure I would be
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I mean I'm obviously an edge case in
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that I'd I've lived a Windows free life
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my entire life but off the top of my
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head the only Microsoft software I can
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think that I use regularly is right now
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Skype I don't think I use anything else
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I haven't had office having a Microsoft
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Office and oh my god at least 10 years
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and Lee I don't even yeah late I don't
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know if I ever even used a Mac os10 ah
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you're probably better off his forehead
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over that case but but I mean if you use
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Excel like for real
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there it which I rarely do but but the
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occasional times I do it's like there's
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numbers is not really competitive if you
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want to just display stuff like make a
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little chart numbers is actually
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arguably better and easier and certainly
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you know Excel make some really ugly
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charts but if you there are some things
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I occasionally do on on Excel that I
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mean it numbers just it's not numbers is
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what it is like it serves its role well
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it's not an excel competitor though I
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don't know I have nothing but good thing
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I haven't used Excel in a long time but
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I was never a serious spreadsheet person
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but when I've seen like serious
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spreadsheets it's it's very impressive
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piece of software yeah it's kind of like
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the I mean people have made this this
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this point before but it's very true it
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really is sort of the programming
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language for normal people yes like I
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mean if you think about it people are
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bend it to do all kinds of crazy things
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in part because it's offering sort of in
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place computation in a way that is
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accessible for for you know sort of
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normal people who don't know how to code
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it is basic out or whatever it's clever
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chewy back hey remember it's called
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vbscript v yeah whatever
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scripting languages so you can do actual
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sort of programming which again is still
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different than you know still pretty
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basic but even just using a cell you
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know equals this cell plus that cell
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divided by that's like--that's
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programming and and in that respect it's
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even more impressive when you think of
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it that in that light even back in 1991
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when I was a freshman in college for the
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as a freshman I ended up switching to
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computer science the next year but as a
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freshman I was an engineering major and
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there was a mandatory like intro to
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programming course but not it again this
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wasn't the computer science this was you
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know and it was all bit was ridiculous
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for me I mean I was like a in like the
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Donlin on the computer programming team
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in high school it could be I was I was
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it was great for me I was the type of
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student you don't know if you were the
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same but when I got a course like that I
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didn't try to place out of it I was just
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like oh this is great I'm to do any work
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but if we ended up I think like second
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half of the thing was like an intro to
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Pascal which dates me and we were still
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learning Pascal but I think the first
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like month of the course was all spent
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in Excel it was sort of like Excel was
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the this is how you learn you know learn
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the program and I think oh that's
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just trying to build the mindset not
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necessarily build exactly that makes a
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ton of sense yeah and in honestly going
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through life I bet more engineers do
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programming in Excel than writing source
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code I mean at least in some ways um I
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think the other thing that Excel has as
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a and all spreadsheets but the thing
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that they have that really makes them is
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so much more approachable for people who
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think they can't program but are
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actually doing you know creating your
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own custom programmatic things is it
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makes data structures completely visual
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and there's yeah so there's this entire
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layer of abstraction of creating a data
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structure that is completely removed if
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you just see it and so much data
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actually fits to conceptually in a grid
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and you don't even know it you don't
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realize that as you're setting up this
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two-dimensional and you know I know you
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can do three dimensional stuff too but
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you know even if it's just to do a
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simple little two-dimensional
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you're creating a data structure but you
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don't even you know you're not really
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thinking about it that way yeah I think
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that's exactly it and you get and you
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can visualize you know you can literally
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visualize like how the numbers are
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moving around and moving through
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equations in you know like you're you're
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debugging you don't even realize you are
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but but that's exactly what's going on
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right anyway nothing but good things to
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say about excel so what else happened at
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this keynote what are they talking about
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what's the big what are people need to
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know about where Microsoft is is wants
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people to go and build it for those who
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don't know it's their developer
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conference so it's you know it's not
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necessarily consumer focus but it's what
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they want people developers to do yeah
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well I think that's that's part of the
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point is there really wasn't anything
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for consumers in in this at all I mean
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there was they had this or Cortana
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skills kit you know which which it would
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be you know a Dallas to sort of the
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Amazon echo skills things like that they
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have a new database service for Azure
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called cosmos DB which is very
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interesting but again speaking of data
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structure is not really something that
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people you know most people would think
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about or or or care about and where as
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tomorrow all right
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which I was yet tomorrow I always try to
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speak in terms of us time but even when
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I would it's not but tonight my time
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tomorrow they will have I think more
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consumer facing stuff but again I think
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it's it's really emblematic of the shift
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in the company that that is on day two
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and to me that's that's kind of the
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biggest high-level takeaway yeah it's
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they're sort of doing on their own
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volition you know under Satya Nadella
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what some people ten years ago add or I
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guess more than 10 years ago at this
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point I had argued that should be done
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by law which is break break the windows
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division off into its own subsidiary or
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separate company or something like that
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yep you know like I think that that let
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Microsoft stay focused on the future and
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let Windows sort of ride out the you
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know the role that it has to play is
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sort of legacy infrastructure yeah I
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think that's exactly that's exactly
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right and it's I didn't think they I
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didn't think they were capable of it
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like Windows was so long you know had so
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much gravitational pole in
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the company mej extent that at one of
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these keynotes a while ago like Asher
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was renamed Windows Azure even though it
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wasn't really Windows but but yeah
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that's a great point know here one of my
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favorite sort of little details here is
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they announced theirs now you could
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access the command line in this sort of
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your Azure dashboard or whatever it is
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like through web browser or on a mobile
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app and it supports bash today and
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PowerShell is coming PowerShell is the
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command line program for Windows and to
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me that that's that really that shows it
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right which one do they support first
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they support bash because what actually
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matters for most cloud applications is
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what most developers are used to is you
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know Linux and and the linux shell and
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that's where and so that's what they're
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serving first and the Windows part is
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coming but it will come it will come
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soon yeah I think it isn't PowerShell in
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a nutshell like there was the das prompt
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and PowerShell is sort of them okay we
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want a command line terminal type thing
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but das this piece of crap so here's
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something you know modern and and at
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least maybe not modeled after UNIX
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shells but at least as powerful as UNIX
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shell yeah I mean it's it's it's a it's
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a whole thing I mean it's you know it's
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a shell and a whole Wincott us its own
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scripting language and it's not actually
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open source lis or not but it yeah it
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was released in 2006 I believe I'm just
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looking it up so I mean it's it's very
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far removed from the sort of DOS days I
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mean it's a proper shell like if it's
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used very heavily by system
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administrators and and folks that are
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managing computers and things like that
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it's used on the server so it mean it's
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a proper shell it's but it's not you
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know it's different then as as one would
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expect it's different than than bash can
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I just as an aside it's so funny because
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I didn't think we'd be talking about
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shells but I do you ever use use command
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line on Mac os10 you use it sometimes
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right yeah rarely I have a couple
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servers that did not my not destroy your
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server that's managed but um I have a
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few other servers that I do stuff on and
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I use it for that but I rarely I don't
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do much scripting on on my
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computer do you do you care what shall
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you use no I don't care at all I use it
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I use it very rarely I've I've used the
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UNIX shell since at least 1990 - that's
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when ice when I switch to computer
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science at Drexel and I've you know I
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mean I'm um I know enough to get
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whatever I need to do done but I've
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never enjoyed it never really and I
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never really liked writing shell scripts
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and so if I ever had anything that you
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most people would write a shell script
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once I found out about parole I just
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wrote everything in Perl and just
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treated Perl if I needed to as my shell
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scripting language so I never really got
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deep roots and I know I think I think
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Mac os10 used to when it first shipped
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was using tcsh as the shell or something
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I don't know and at some point it
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switched to bash because bash sort of
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become is like the most popular modern
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scripting language because Linux uses
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that I think but I never had deep roots
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like it was never like like people get
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tied up and they have like these shelves
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or files you know the what do you call
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your profile where you've got all these
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aliases and all this stuff set up so
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that you can't really switch shells very
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easily because you'd have to rewrite it
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so anyway recently I switched my shell
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err on my Mac's to fish have you heard
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about this shell I've heard you chatting
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about it but it's no I it's fascinating
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and I think anybody who has deep roots
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into a UNIX shell is not going to switch
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but it's a like a new shell it's you
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know something that this guy Peter a man
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made he's a engineer at Apple this isn't
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an apple project it's something he did
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on the side but it's amazing and I thing
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I like about it is it's like completely
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logical in terms of how you do stuff and
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it doesn't have any kind of it by
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separating itself from from the history
[TS]
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of UNIX shells it breaks a bunch of
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things that other UNIX shells all do but
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it like just for one thing one thing
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►
that's so nice is that instead of
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spewing a whole bunch of like dot files
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►
you know the UNIX way of making a file
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►
quote-unquote invisible a start the name
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►
of the dot which is
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so gross that we're still using that but
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►
they did they had these you end up with
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►
like six of these files in your home
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folder for each shell that you use
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►
because in Iran they don't have names
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►
that make any sense and no they drive me
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up the wall I know exactly we talk about
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►
right it doesn't make any sense at all
[TS]
◼
►
with fish you still have it you know a
[TS]
◼
►
dot file but it's it's a folder which is
[TS]
◼
►
it called it's called but I'm really
[TS]
◼
►
exciting tonight aren't I
[TS]
◼
►
I should do this later and I love that
[TS]
◼
►
it's called I think it's called like dot
[TS]
◼
►
config or something like that but
[TS]
◼
►
there's one it's a it makes it folder
[TS]
◼
►
instead of a file and it's just one
[TS]
◼
►
folder called dot config and inside
[TS]
◼
►
there is is where everything else goes
[TS]
◼
►
so you just there's like a folder in dot
[TS]
◼
►
config that says fish and then inside
[TS]
◼
►
that folder is all officious stuff so if
[TS]
◼
►
other utilities use this convention
[TS]
◼
►
everything could go nice and neatly into
[TS]
◼
►
one folder called config anyway it's
[TS]
◼
►
really neat I'll put a link in the show
[TS]
◼
►
notes to fish it's really I think it's
[TS]
◼
►
really neat so oh that reminds me what
[TS]
◼
►
is the last time I was on um 2000
[TS]
◼
►
January 2017 looks like and we talked
[TS]
◼
►
about the Mac a little bit then and I I
[TS]
◼
►
do have to say I think pretty much that
[TS]
◼
►
that episode holds up I think pretty
[TS]
◼
►
well after the after the the news that's
[TS]
◼
►
come out about the Mac Pro and things
[TS]
◼
►
like that like I think our general
[TS]
◼
►
presumption was that there was a screw
[TS]
◼
►
up they wand update it but couldn't and
[TS]
◼
►
they're not abandoning the platform and
[TS]
◼
►
and it was just a screw-up and I think
[TS]
◼
►
that's basically what ended up would end
[TS]
◼
►
up happening so that I'm glad we uh glad
[TS]
◼
►
we got that one right yeah I think so
[TS]
◼
►
anyway before I glued fish I'll just say
[TS]
◼
►
this if you're a nerd and nerdy enough
[TS]
◼
►
to use the terminal but you've somehow
[TS]
◼
►
never gotten attached to bash or
[TS]
◼
►
seashell or Z shell or any of those
[TS]
◼
►
things you should give fish a try it's
[TS]
◼
►
really easy to install
[TS]
◼
►
through homebrew and I like it so much
[TS]
◼
►
more than any shell I've ever tried
[TS]
◼
►
because it's just somehow makes sense it
[TS]
◼
►
makes sense that it comes from somebody
[TS]
◼
►
who works at Apple
[TS]
◼
►
it sort of makes sense in the way Apple
[TS]
◼
►
software does right that's what made me
[TS]
◼
►
think of it is the idea of like change
[TS]
◼
►
like one even having access to a shell
[TS]
◼
►
and being able to change it and all the
[TS]
◼
►
things you can do through a shell like
[TS]
◼
►
that's it's it's a thing you do on
[TS]
◼
►
computers which is that I start remember
[TS]
◼
►
why I went back to that last episode but
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's why I mean it's a great
[TS]
◼
►
example yeah it does things like it has
[TS]
◼
►
like if you want to change the color the
[TS]
◼
►
syntax colouring for the shell like for
[TS]
◼
►
which like a command is this color the
[TS]
◼
►
arguments are this color the outputs
[TS]
◼
►
this color in error is this color when
[TS]
◼
►
you config you don't have to just type
[TS]
◼
►
in a file you can do something and it
[TS]
◼
►
opens a little web local web browser
[TS]
◼
►
window and so you can visually pick the
[TS]
◼
►
colors and see actually see the colors
[TS]
◼
►
as you add to them it's oh nice amazing
[TS]
◼
►
stuff it's so anyway it's really cool so
[TS]
◼
►
anyway PowerShell it's is coming soon it
[TS]
◼
►
and bash is already is the default and
[TS]
◼
►
first available thing that support for
[TS]
◼
►
this for this dashboard sort of
[TS]
◼
►
interface for the other thing I saw it
[TS]
◼
►
was announced was I forget what they
[TS]
◼
►
call it but whatever Microsoft version
[TS]
◼
►
of Xcode is what's it called virtual
[TS]
◼
►
studio visual studio whatever the visual
[TS]
◼
►
studio universal studio is now I know
[TS]
◼
►
it's not wasn't a surprise but it's
[TS]
◼
►
there's a version of it for Mac now
[TS]
◼
►
which is crazy yep and they did a demo
[TS]
◼
►
and it was more like oh we're doing a
[TS]
◼
►
demo on a Mac it wasn't like a we're
[TS]
◼
►
definitely this program but there's
[TS]
◼
►
actually when they were doing the I
[TS]
◼
►
think is when they're demoing the shell
[TS]
◼
►
and it was on a map yeah
[TS]
◼
►
and that it you know it it's of a piece
[TS]
◼
►
it's the exact same you know two sides
[TS]
◼
►
of the same coin with the windows
[TS]
◼
►
keynote being on day two the entire idea
[TS]
◼
►
that if you're developing on Windows
[TS]
◼
►
server side technologies the assumption
[TS]
◼
►
that you're developing with a Windows
[TS]
◼
►
client and with your hands on the
[TS]
◼
►
keyboard is no longer there like they're
[TS]
◼
►
completely come you know committed and
[TS]
◼
►
realized that but I don't know if it's a
[TS]
◼
►
majority of developers but certainly an
[TS]
◼
►
enormous chunk of them are using Mac's
[TS]
◼
►
as their client whether they're writing
[TS]
◼
►
Mac software or not even if they're just
[TS]
◼
►
doing like web development or Windows
[TS]
◼
►
development or something like that
[TS]
◼
►
or saw anything server-side I think
[TS]
◼
►
there's an enormous chunk of them who
[TS]
◼
►
are using MacBooks yep
[TS]
◼
►
no yep and and the platforms that
[TS]
◼
►
they're developing for um you know yes
[TS]
◼
►
on PC it's still meal windows still as
[TS]
◼
►
it you know dominant more the dominant
[TS]
◼
►
share but pcs aren't a piece species are
[TS]
◼
►
the fast I mean in a very real way or in
[TS]
◼
►
you know to a topic I'm sure we'll get
[TS]
◼
►
to there they were never even a thing so
[TS]
◼
►
and that's that's the reality that
[TS]
◼
►
Microsoft has to deal with for and to in
[TS]
◼
►
and I think they by and large are again
[TS]
◼
►
that doesn't mean that they're out of
[TS]
◼
►
the woods because they still have this
[TS]
◼
►
stuff to actually reach consumers
[TS]
◼
►
actually get in front of them both in
[TS]
◼
►
terms both in that applies to business
[TS]
◼
►
just as much as applies to to end-users
[TS]
◼
►
but at least they're you know not stuck
[TS]
◼
►
focused on focused on the past yeah yeah
[TS]
◼
►
so now we're in unusual how things
[TS]
◼
►
change situation where Microsoft is the
[TS]
◼
►
company that's flexible about what what
[TS]
◼
►
machines people are using to develop
[TS]
◼
►
against their technologies and apples
[TS]
◼
►
the company that makes you develop on a
[TS]
◼
►
Mac to write for their phone OS right
[TS]
◼
►
not that I blame Apple for that might
[TS]
◼
►
have come out as me you know blaming
[TS]
◼
►
them I to makes profiles again but uh
[TS]
◼
►
it's just it's just a funny situation
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I mean the apples the company with
[TS]
◼
►
an operating system was such over well
[TS]
◼
►
at overwhelming market share that they
[TS]
◼
►
can compel developers to buy a machine
[TS]
◼
►
that they otherwise wouldn't buy just to
[TS]
◼
►
do development for it yeah it's it it
[TS]
◼
►
it's hard to especially if you were
[TS]
◼
►
following Apple I'm sure it's harder for
[TS]
◼
►
you than for me I mean back in I was
[TS]
◼
►
following Apple that I used when I
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't using one and to really
[TS]
◼
►
appreciate the extent to which they are
[TS]
◼
►
not the underdog
[TS]
◼
►
at all it like it's it's easy easier the
[TS]
◼
►
situation to change on the ground before
[TS]
◼
►
it's before changes sort of your mental
[TS]
◼
►
state and I think that's a proper app
[TS]
◼
►
that was an app prom for Apple
[TS]
◼
►
internally to like you
[TS]
◼
►
you act and behave changes when you're
[TS]
◼
►
when you're dominant as opposed to when
[TS]
◼
►
you're you know the sort of scrappy
[TS]
◼
►
scrappy underdog yeah um yeah totally so
[TS]
◼
►
what else is going on at surface or not
[TS]
◼
►
surface had build you know that's a
[TS]
◼
►
conference I was I was at the one time I
[TS]
◼
►
was in a video yes that's right uh feels
[TS]
◼
►
like a long time ago well it's it's I
[TS]
◼
►
mean it's crazy I'll lightning ahead Way
[TS]
◼
►
was a while ago it has to been what four
[TS]
◼
►
four or five years ago three years ago I
[TS]
◼
►
think I think was wrong I think so that
[TS]
◼
►
was somebody's I thought I was still in
[TS]
◼
►
the states when that happened but yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
think it was three years ago
[TS]
◼
►
but I could be wrong but long story
[TS]
◼
►
short for those who don't remember this
[TS]
◼
►
was when I was working with Brent
[TS]
◼
►
Simmons and Dave wish because they we
[TS]
◼
►
called her social q-branch we had her
[TS]
◼
►
app vesper and we did the sinking our
[TS]
◼
►
own sinking back-end for various reasons
[TS]
◼
►
but we built it on I guess I think we
[TS]
◼
►
were there right we were doing it at the
[TS]
◼
►
time when they called it Windows Azure
[TS]
◼
►
and they made like they made us one of
[TS]
◼
►
the like examples in a little video that
[TS]
◼
►
they showed on the in the keynote flew
[TS]
◼
►
us out there and everything was kind of
[TS]
◼
►
nice kind of weird they have yeah they
[TS]
◼
►
have this uh they have a real-time
[TS]
◼
►
translator for Microsoft PowerPoint
[TS]
◼
►
that's kind of nifty so when you can be
[TS]
◼
►
presenting and it will be show like
[TS]
◼
►
real-time translation of the of the UH
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so that's kind interesting but
[TS]
◼
►
again I mean it's it was mostly like it
[TS]
◼
►
was it was mostly all back and stuff so
[TS]
◼
►
which which which is fine I think as far
[TS]
◼
►
as consumer-facing stuff you know the
[TS]
◼
►
one today is probably going to be more
[TS]
◼
►
more interesting but then again they
[TS]
◼
►
just announced the the windows s and the
[TS]
◼
►
new laptop so a couple weeks ago so I
[TS]
◼
►
think they're disposed there's really
[TS]
◼
►
might be a Cortana speaker like a like
[TS]
◼
►
an echo type device yeah at which but
[TS]
◼
►
again you know I mean actually getting
[TS]
◼
►
customers to get customers hands is
[TS]
◼
►
gonna is going to be the challenge I
[TS]
◼
►
guess the reason I was going to say I
[TS]
◼
►
gave somebody who observes Apple it's
[TS]
◼
►
I have muscle memory you know and it's
[TS]
◼
►
weird to see a company that's so on
[TS]
◼
►
Apple like like it's baffling to me that
[TS]
◼
►
they would hold an event a week before
[TS]
◼
►
their big developer conference right or
[TS]
◼
►
they would talk about a new operating
[TS]
◼
►
system and unveil these new products
[TS]
◼
►
like why wouldn't you do that in the
[TS]
◼
►
keynote but I'm guessing you know that
[TS]
◼
►
the keynote this morning ran long and
[TS]
◼
►
then the Windows one tomorrow they're
[TS]
◼
►
their keynotes already already run long
[TS]
◼
►
right I mean today was really I mean it
[TS]
◼
►
was much more of yeah it was pretty
[TS]
◼
►
hardcore like back-end development or
[TS]
◼
►
wine a business application sort of
[TS]
◼
►
stuff I mean it wasn't a really consumer
[TS]
◼
►
facing thing at all it not even on the
[TS]
◼
►
slightest and yeah maybe they could have
[TS]
◼
►
announced the the things tomorrow but I
[TS]
◼
►
think yeah there's a very queer sort of
[TS]
◼
►
bifurcation and I think you've nailed it
[TS]
◼
►
before what Windows is sort of its own
[TS]
◼
►
thing particularly the consumer facing
[TS]
◼
►
side of Windows and I think they there's
[TS]
◼
►
relatively free rein to do what they can
[TS]
◼
►
to you know support and earn customers
[TS]
◼
►
but that doesn't necessarily really have
[TS]
◼
►
much impact particularly from a
[TS]
◼
►
strategic perspective on the rest of
[TS]
◼
►
Microsoft which is you know really the
[TS]
◼
►
future of the company and that's
[TS]
◼
►
probably this is probably a good example
[TS]
◼
►
it was weird I know today's build they
[TS]
◼
►
move it around I think all that I think
[TS]
◼
►
they often move it around but this Sears
[TS]
◼
►
is in Seattle when I went two or three
[TS]
◼
►
years ago three four years ago whenever
[TS]
◼
►
it was it was in San Francisco in
[TS]
◼
►
Moscone which only added to this sort of
[TS]
◼
►
we were feeling bizarro
[TS]
◼
►
like I was in a bizarro developer
[TS]
◼
►
bizarro WWDC because they even had the
[TS]
◼
►
keynote at third floor you know we wrap
[TS]
◼
►
what Apple always calls the room
[TS]
◼
►
Presidio you know that the those big
[TS]
◼
►
convention spaces are sort of like
[TS]
◼
►
modular you know there's walls that can
[TS]
◼
►
be moved around to change the shape and
[TS]
◼
►
make room slightly bigger or smaller but
[TS]
◼
►
the thing that Microsoft did what and
[TS]
◼
►
I've seen so many keynotes in that room
[TS]
◼
►
because Macworld Expo used to have
[TS]
◼
►
in the same room WWDC every year I guess
[TS]
◼
►
those are the two things but they're
[TS]
◼
►
Macworld Expo and W
[TS]
◼
►
Sika notes in that room and apples
[TS]
◼
►
configuration of the room is almost
[TS]
◼
►
always the same it's a very if you'd
[TS]
◼
►
almost think that it the room always
[TS]
◼
►
looks like that but it's actually like
[TS]
◼
►
an apple setup like it when WWDC has
[TS]
◼
►
done all that everything in there is out
[TS]
◼
►
and the thing that Microsoft did was
[TS]
◼
►
they had their stage along what in
[TS]
◼
►
Apple's configuration is the side like
[TS]
◼
►
Apple sits the room with the stage in
[TS]
◼
►
the front and the room goes back long
[TS]
◼
►
Microsoft set it up said that the stage
[TS]
◼
►
was wide and the room wasn't as deep and
[TS]
◼
►
they site in a way that that made sense
[TS]
◼
►
even though it made more people
[TS]
◼
►
everybody was closer to the stage and
[TS]
◼
►
Microsoft's configuration but people
[TS]
◼
►
were further from the center if you
[TS]
◼
►
didn't have a center seat and they made
[TS]
◼
►
up for that by having huge screens that
[TS]
◼
►
were just showed the same instead of
[TS]
◼
►
having one big screen that shows
[TS]
◼
►
something they had like a wall of
[TS]
◼
►
screens that all showed the same thing
[TS]
◼
►
over and over again and it just weirded
[TS]
◼
►
me out it was just guess it's you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's like coming home and somebody has
[TS]
◼
►
moved all of the furniture like
[TS]
◼
►
everything is the same except they've
[TS]
◼
►
rotated every room in your house by 90
[TS]
◼
►
degrees that would be weird uh but yet
[TS]
◼
►
no no no Moscone keynote again this year
[TS]
◼
►
I mean right well they've been in the
[TS]
◼
►
the what is it the Billy Billy Graham
[TS]
◼
►
auditorium oh is that what it's called I
[TS]
◼
►
uh something like that I don't think I
[TS]
◼
►
mean they might never do Apple might
[TS]
◼
►
never do a Moscone right I was gonna say
[TS]
◼
►
yeah what might be uh which is fine he
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't it wasn't the greatest I didn't
[TS]
◼
►
like the I'm not a big fan of the Apple
[TS]
◼
►
set up in Moscow nee I'm not either
[TS]
◼
►
really I don't have anything against it
[TS]
◼
►
but I thought the Microsoft setup was
[TS]
◼
►
actually very nice I've it worked very
[TS]
◼
►
well and I felt like everybody got to
[TS]
◼
►
you couldn't really see may not be able
[TS]
◼
►
to see the actual people but if you know
[TS]
◼
►
I feel like if you were sitting seated
[TS]
◼
►
along the side you had a much bigger
[TS]
◼
►
screen in front of you than you get
[TS]
◼
►
seated in the back in Moscow me an apple
[TS]
◼
►
setup right exactly yeah I don't think
[TS]
◼
►
Apple Apple might never have an event in
[TS]
◼
►
San Francisco again you never say never
[TS]
◼
►
I mean who knows but I because I feel
[TS]
◼
►
like for their smaller events they're
[TS]
◼
►
going to have them at their headquarters
[TS]
◼
►
in the Steve Jobs theater
[TS]
◼
►
right I don't think you name the theater
[TS]
◼
►
Steve Jobs theater unless you intend to
[TS]
◼
►
use it quite a bit to unveil new
[TS]
◼
►
products right like I'm sure they're you
[TS]
◼
►
know have you been to the new campus you
[TS]
◼
►
know I've never I don't even know where
[TS]
◼
►
it is I was asking about it when I was
[TS]
◼
►
out there for the Mac Pro summit
[TS]
◼
►
whatever you want to round table
[TS]
◼
►
discussion it was a I guess it just
[TS]
◼
►
isn't close I don't know to be I just
[TS]
◼
►
so I one of the buildings that was that
[TS]
◼
►
was torn down so I definitely know where
[TS]
◼
►
it is be guys it's it's it's like
[TS]
◼
►
another exit on the freeway from from
[TS]
◼
►
where the current campus is right and I
[TS]
◼
►
did you could drive there through
[TS]
◼
►
through through city roads but yeah it's
[TS]
◼
►
a little bit of a hike it on the other
[TS]
◼
►
side of the freeway so it just wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
convenient and I didn't have a car so
[TS]
◼
►
what wasn't like I was going to take an
[TS]
◼
►
uber to go look at a construction site I
[TS]
◼
►
mean those fly overs that people publish
[TS]
◼
►
from those drones are probably better
[TS]
◼
►
than what you'd get looking at the
[TS]
◼
►
ground from the outside yep yeah I think
[TS]
◼
►
so I mean maybe uh I mean I imagine the
[TS]
◼
►
ID well I guess we'll see with the
[TS]
◼
►
iPhone with the iPhone announcement but
[TS]
◼
►
they did that they did that in San Jose
[TS]
◼
►
also not last year but for the when they
[TS]
◼
►
did the watch the watch unveiling was
[TS]
◼
►
was in San Jose uh yeah where was that I
[TS]
◼
►
forget where it was I don't think it was
[TS]
◼
►
San Jose no it was at the the watch
[TS]
◼
►
unveiling was at the the College in
[TS]
◼
►
oh is that was that Cupertino I I hope
[TS]
◼
►
it wasn't it's like some that I forget
[TS]
◼
►
the name of the college but De Anza or
[TS]
◼
►
something I I forget what the hell of
[TS]
◼
►
this but it was not know the one that
[TS]
◼
►
was in San Jose was an iPad event like
[TS]
◼
►
in 2011 I think or 2012 I don't know it
[TS]
◼
►
was right before Scott Forstall got
[TS]
◼
►
fired how was the how was the the Danza
[TS]
◼
►
auditorium or whatever it was I was all
[TS]
◼
►
right it wasn't it wasn't anything to
[TS]
◼
►
write home about that was the one where
[TS]
◼
►
Apple build a big mysterious white box
[TS]
◼
►
out front right right right and that was
[TS]
◼
►
the end ecology of the ends is that what
[TS]
◼
►
it is DeAnza College
[TS]
◼
►
yep um it was okay uh I'm not surprised
[TS]
◼
►
that they haven't been back since I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think it was great I think the one
[TS]
◼
►
thing people don't seem to understand is
[TS]
◼
►
that this Steve Jobs theater is not that
[TS]
◼
►
big either like there's no way they
[TS]
◼
►
can't have like a WWE seeking out there
[TS]
◼
►
some people have speculated that you
[TS]
◼
►
know maybe this year they'll secretly
[TS]
◼
►
bus everybody to the new campus to have
[TS]
◼
►
the keynote there or something that's
[TS]
◼
►
like--that's that no you can't but it
[TS]
◼
►
can't bus 5,000 people there but B it's
[TS]
◼
►
not a 5,000 person auditorium I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know what this evening and see that they
[TS]
◼
►
don't want 5,000 people writing her on
[TS]
◼
►
that campus right I don't think yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think they want people on their
[TS]
◼
►
campus well be the old the old uh the
[TS]
◼
►
old one town uh what's called God
[TS]
◼
►
yeah Tony Hall that was tiny that was
[TS]
◼
►
turn it was like but I said I'm sure
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that makes sense though I suppose
[TS]
◼
►
the I bet WABC will end up back in San
[TS]
◼
►
Francisco we'll see I'll probably see
[TS]
◼
►
how it goes this year and then because
[TS]
◼
►
the reason it's in San Jose this year is
[TS]
◼
►
because Moscone Center construction I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know what I don't believe that
[TS]
◼
►
I really don't what well basically all
[TS]
◼
►
of the but everyone is not in Moscone by
[TS]
◼
►
and large like how they have there been
[TS]
◼
►
any big events there I mean I know only
[TS]
◼
►
part of Muskaan's are construction but I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think Apple is the only one to let
[TS]
◼
►
their stuff on their schedule if you
[TS]
◼
►
look it's so north and south Moscone
[TS]
◼
►
north and south the big like the expo
[TS]
◼
►
hall ones are closed and they're ripping
[TS]
◼
►
up the street i if there's an argument
[TS]
◼
►
for it it's the fact that they've got
[TS]
◼
►
the street ripped up I guess that's
[TS]
◼
►
Howard Street is all ripped up for the
[TS]
◼
►
north and south expansion but Moscone
[TS]
◼
►
West is still open and is not being
[TS]
◼
►
renovated and I've you know before Apple
[TS]
◼
►
made this announcement you could look on
[TS]
◼
►
the schedule in their world you know
[TS]
◼
►
there was like one open week in June but
[TS]
◼
►
the otherwise there's stuff in Moscone
[TS]
◼
►
week Moscone West all the time I could
[TS]
◼
►
be wrong yeah not are you right I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know I mean who cares if the streets
[TS]
◼
►
ripped up I've seen people say well the
[TS]
◼
►
streets all ripped up oh who gives a
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know you'd say nobody's done
[TS]
◼
►
like everybody's driving down Howard
[TS]
◼
►
Street to get to WWDC I think if Apple
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to have it at Moscone West this
[TS]
◼
►
year they would have
[TS]
◼
►
I think there's other reasons you know
[TS]
◼
►
whether they got a better deal whether
[TS]
◼
►
they really you know I I do think I
[TS]
◼
►
think Apple is if you can put a
[TS]
◼
►
personality on a company there are a
[TS]
◼
►
homebody company they they don't that
[TS]
◼
►
are not a San Francisco company I know
[TS]
◼
►
they have a couple of offices there but
[TS]
◼
►
you know they really are at as a company
[TS]
◼
►
they're at home on their campus in
[TS]
◼
►
Cupertino and I feel like they being
[TS]
◼
►
closer to home is better for them yeah
[TS]
◼
►
no question I mean just being in the
[TS]
◼
►
valley I mean they're they're not it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's own insular sort of culture like
[TS]
◼
►
it's much less sort of interspersed I've
[TS]
◼
►
obviously an employee level that's on
[TS]
◼
►
the solicit case but especially once you
[TS]
◼
►
get more into senior management I mean
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's it's own world like it's in
[TS]
◼
►
the same geographic area but the rest of
[TS]
◼
►
the valley I think is much more
[TS]
◼
►
intertwined with Google and there's much
[TS]
◼
►
more of a sort of back and forth in in
[TS]
◼
►
that perspective when it comes to sort
[TS]
◼
►
of Big Valley companies and and you know
[TS]
◼
►
in San Francisco but yeah my Apple has
[TS]
◼
►
always been its own its own sort of
[TS]
◼
►
universe and you see it you see that all
[TS]
◼
►
over the place not just in the valley
[TS]
◼
►
you see it sort of online you see it
[TS]
◼
►
when it comes to Apple fans there's a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of people who are Apple fans or that
[TS]
◼
►
are not necessarily tech fans you know I
[TS]
◼
►
actually see that when it comes to like
[TS]
◼
►
readers and you see it you know in
[TS]
◼
►
popular culture where yeah it's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting it really is its own sort of
[TS]
◼
►
its own sort of entity for better or
[TS]
◼
►
worse yeah and I think at a practical
[TS]
◼
►
level it's absolutely the case I mean
[TS]
◼
►
there's no argument no spin it's just
[TS]
◼
►
just a fact that San Jose is so much
[TS]
◼
►
closer to Apple's campus or campuses and
[TS]
◼
►
Cupertino that for engineers at Apple
[TS]
◼
►
who have things to do that week that
[TS]
◼
►
they need to be at the office they can
[TS]
◼
►
swing by they might be able to do a
[TS]
◼
►
couple of hours work in their office and
[TS]
◼
►
then go to WWDC in the afternoon for
[TS]
◼
►
labs or something like that and people
[TS]
◼
►
might get you know attendees might get
[TS]
◼
►
interaction with significantly more
[TS]
◼
►
engineers from Apple who couldn't take
[TS]
◼
►
an entire day to go up to San Francisco
[TS]
◼
►
because it's night and day
[TS]
◼
►
I mean San Francisco is can be over an
[TS]
◼
►
depending on traffic and San Jose it's
[TS]
◼
►
you know probably like 10 15 minute
[TS]
◼
►
drive yep yep exactly as you you found
[TS]
◼
►
us you found a good spot for for the
[TS]
◼
►
talk show yeah yeah I'm in that
[TS]
◼
►
California theater where that iPad event
[TS]
◼
►
was the one that was in San Jose so he's
[TS]
◼
►
a lot bigger than the old place good
[TS]
◼
►
place where I had my show yeah oh my god
[TS]
◼
►
it's so much bigger it's guys like as I
[TS]
◼
►
get 1,100 seat capacity and I thought
[TS]
◼
►
that when we had it mezzanine in San
[TS]
◼
►
Francisco which I love which I still if
[TS]
◼
►
you know I love that facility I love
[TS]
◼
►
doing a show there but I think we capped
[TS]
◼
►
it at 500 I think you could mezzanine a
[TS]
◼
►
attendance cap is significantly higher
[TS]
◼
►
than that but 500 seems to you know and
[TS]
◼
►
and judging from people's reactions over
[TS]
◼
►
the years if it's it keeps it from
[TS]
◼
►
getting too crowded like I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
attack the most number of people in
[TS]
◼
►
there I feel bad when people like I
[TS]
◼
►
think tickets sold out in like 10
[TS]
◼
►
minutes last year so I feel bad that
[TS]
◼
►
people want to go can't come but I'd
[TS]
◼
►
rather have everybody I draw there are
[TS]
◼
►
fewer people come and more people
[TS]
◼
►
excluded but have everybody be
[TS]
◼
►
comfortable but I uh yeah are there
[TS]
◼
►
gonna be drinks I think that's probably
[TS]
◼
►
the the more pressing question there
[TS]
◼
►
will be drinks and I don't know how
[TS]
◼
►
that's going to work because it's a
[TS]
◼
►
the--it's a real theater theater and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know yeah any pictures right now
[TS]
◼
►
right I don't know how easy it'll be for
[TS]
◼
►
people who are sitting in the middle of
[TS]
◼
►
a road to go get drinks so I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
it might have to be sort of a you know
[TS]
◼
►
get your load on get your load on before
[TS]
◼
►
the show starts that was the great thing
[TS]
◼
►
about Bethenny's you could like every
[TS]
◼
►
obviously there was the seating and if
[TS]
◼
►
you're in a seat was the your
[TS]
◼
►
interviewer or you know the show was
[TS]
◼
►
going on you wouldn't get up and go but
[TS]
◼
►
you could also just sort of be in the
[TS]
◼
►
back and be you know mingling a little
[TS]
◼
►
bit and getting a drink and uh so yeah
[TS]
◼
►
it kind of served a you could watch you
[TS]
◼
►
could watch the show in multiple in
[TS]
◼
►
multiple ways okay which was nice well
[TS]
◼
►
we'll see I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
but 1,100 people Jesus that's going to
[TS]
◼
►
be nerve-racking as a balcony and
[TS]
◼
►
everything it does is it's very
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful I'm looking at the looking at
[TS]
◼
►
the pictures right now yeah take it
[TS]
◼
►
still aren't on sale but they will be
[TS]
◼
►
that's right now okay I forgot that you
[TS]
◼
►
hadn't I like that maybe people give the
[TS]
◼
►
Munsell with how you post what I am you
[TS]
◼
►
know I'm not waiting till the last
[TS]
◼
►
minute but it's just lots of little too
[TS]
◼
►
it's not too much work I don't have to
[TS]
◼
►
it's not like I'm sitting there hooking
[TS]
◼
►
microphones up and stuff but there's a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of details to be worked out yet
[TS]
◼
►
anyway well hopefully hopefully I didn't
[TS]
◼
►
give it give anything away no no no no
[TS]
◼
►
no no that's a secret it even the venue
[TS]
◼
►
is art it's right there on apple's
[TS]
◼
►
website and stuff like that so i'm not
[TS]
◼
►
keeping it secret anyway let's take a
[TS]
◼
►
break i thank our four sponsors our good
[TS]
◼
►
friends at fracture fracture is the
[TS]
◼
►
photo decor company that's out to rescue
[TS]
◼
►
your favorite images from the digital
[TS]
◼
►
ether that's their words not mine here's
[TS]
◼
►
what they do they take your photos they
[TS]
◼
►
print them directly on glass right there
[TS]
◼
►
on the glass on the glass not a piece of
[TS]
◼
►
paper glued to glass they I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
what they have they've custom
[TS]
◼
►
proprietary stuff they just put glass
[TS]
◼
►
into the printer the printer puts your
[TS]
◼
►
photo right on the glass and then they
[TS]
◼
►
mail it to you and it looks amazing it's
[TS]
◼
►
got that Retina effect where it just
[TS]
◼
►
looks like it doesn't look it looks
[TS]
◼
►
there's just such a different effect
[TS]
◼
►
than a piece of paper behind a piece of
[TS]
◼
►
glass and frame and it takes all the
[TS]
◼
►
pain-in-the-ass stuff out of hanging
[TS]
◼
►
pictures up because this happens to me
[TS]
◼
►
every time every time I used to get like
[TS]
◼
►
Ikea frames or something like that you'd
[TS]
◼
►
put a photo in there and then you have
[TS]
◼
►
to get those little things on the back
[TS]
◼
►
that take that secure the cardboard you
[TS]
◼
►
flip them up and then you put the
[TS]
◼
►
picture in then you put the cardboard
[TS]
◼
►
back in and you flip them back down and
[TS]
◼
►
inevitably the picture goes like two
[TS]
◼
►
degrees off and you got to open it up
[TS]
◼
►
start all over again what a pain in the
[TS]
◼
►
ass with the pictures from fractured
[TS]
◼
►
there's nothing like that can happen
[TS]
◼
►
it's just a piece of glass so it's
[TS]
◼
►
always perfectly aligned and they ship
[TS]
◼
►
you everything you need to hang it on
[TS]
◼
►
the wall in the box they even include
[TS]
◼
►
the wall anchor just upload your digital
[TS]
◼
►
photo on their website pick the size and
[TS]
◼
►
just wait for it to show up in a mail
[TS]
◼
►
that's it could not be easier where do
[TS]
◼
►
you go to find out more fracture me.com
[TS]
◼
►
slash podcast not did everyone every
[TS]
◼
►
time I read it I feel like I'm making a
[TS]
◼
►
mistake and that that's some kind of
[TS]
◼
►
placeholder but that's really the URL
[TS]
◼
►
fracture me.com slash podcast and then I
[TS]
◼
►
guess they use the same URL for all
[TS]
◼
►
podcasts but then at the end when you
[TS]
◼
►
they'll say hey where'd you find out
[TS]
◼
►
about fracture and you can say the talk
[TS]
◼
►
hey go buy something for Father's Day
[TS]
◼
►
it's a great great gift too late for
[TS]
◼
►
Mother's Day Mother's Day is like two
[TS]
◼
►
days from now but fathers days coming up
[TS]
◼
►
next month what an amazing gift go buy a
[TS]
◼
►
fracture for your for your father your
[TS]
◼
►
husband anything like that what a great
[TS]
◼
►
well I fractured me is is memorable yeah
[TS]
◼
►
and to your l's at euros are hard
[TS]
◼
►
there's someone was making fun of there
[TS]
◼
►
is a tweets and effective tech before so
[TS]
◼
►
are so uncreated that they have a site
[TS]
◼
►
about strategy and tactile trajectory
[TS]
◼
►
and I'm like it's it's true I've no I've
[TS]
◼
►
no excuse every dairy firewall as always
[TS]
◼
►
I'm always like damaged I should have
[TS]
◼
►
hired you to get a name you find me a
[TS]
◼
►
name before I started but I know it's
[TS]
◼
►
now it's too late
[TS]
◼
►
it's the other thing too is is getting
[TS]
◼
►
any URLs hard and the one of the things
[TS]
◼
►
when I started I had no money I was I
[TS]
◼
►
was in debt that you know and the idea
[TS]
◼
►
like going out and spending money to get
[TS]
◼
►
a a URL or whatever or Twitter handle
[TS]
◼
►
stuff like one of the advantages of
[TS]
◼
►
trajectory is it was available um I
[TS]
◼
►
would I like I said I probably wouldn't
[TS]
◼
►
use it again if I starting over because
[TS]
◼
►
it's you know so hard to say hard to
[TS]
◼
►
spell hahaha which is not a good not a
[TS]
◼
►
good combo but but yeah it's it's hard
[TS]
◼
►
you the whole URL Twitter handle thing
[TS]
◼
►
is uh it's tough you know I remember
[TS]
◼
►
fracture me especially now after you
[TS]
◼
►
sort of made that that that little joke
[TS]
◼
►
you know that I have during fireball
[TS]
◼
►
calm right yeah but it redirects to done
[TS]
◼
►
it right and some people don't ask about
[TS]
◼
►
that anymore in the early years people
[TS]
◼
►
would be like why why do you why do you
[TS]
◼
►
redirect to.net why don't you know
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't would most people if I have
[TS]
◼
►
both redirected calm and I think it's
[TS]
◼
►
like to me it's like I started using the
[TS]
◼
►
internet so early when most domains
[TS]
◼
►
weren't comms you know like dot orgs and
[TS]
◼
►
dot ed use bed use were probably the
[TS]
◼
►
most popular that I used uh and net to
[TS]
◼
►
but to me.com was sort of crass in the
[TS]
◼
►
early years and I know that in the you
[TS]
◼
►
know after the document even called the
[TS]
◼
►
bubble the calm bubble like
[TS]
◼
►
sort of became the the neutral one right
[TS]
◼
►
it's like ground zero of all the
[TS]
◼
►
top-level domains like by default you
[TS]
◼
►
wanna calm but like when I was I'm in my
[TS]
◼
►
mind it still is sort of crass I don't
[TS]
◼
►
again the early years all the dot-com
[TS]
◼
►
sites were garbage right with it was
[TS]
◼
►
supposed to be like commercial right I
[TS]
◼
►
think it was dancefloor then try I like
[TS]
◼
►
I liked I agree I like dotnet better but
[TS]
◼
►
yes I give in to the to the prevailing I
[TS]
◼
►
own trajectory got net also but it
[TS]
◼
►
redirects in the opposite direction
[TS]
◼
►
right and like Kottke I think a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
really early types you know like me I
[TS]
◼
►
was it like hockey org yeah and I just
[TS]
◼
►
it wouldn't work like neither it somehow
[TS]
◼
►
is part of the domain like cocky net
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be right cocky calm would be
[TS]
◼
►
awful like it just it wouldn't be the
[TS]
◼
►
same like Kottke org is exactly right
[TS]
◼
►
and for whatever reason in my mind it's
[TS]
◼
►
just like when you rewrite a sentence
[TS]
◼
►
and just use the same words but you put
[TS]
◼
►
a clause in the middle of the sentence
[TS]
◼
►
as opposed to at the end or something
[TS]
◼
►
like that and one way reads great in one
[TS]
◼
►
way it doesn't to me daring firebolt net
[TS]
◼
►
reads better than daring fireball calm I
[TS]
◼
►
relayed the great thing
[TS]
◼
►
Mozart go ahead go ahead man oh no I
[TS]
◼
►
just I just gonna say there's a great
[TS]
◼
►
thing about daring fireball is it's so
[TS]
◼
►
distinct that you can one if you type
[TS]
◼
►
these if you type in URL and then the
[TS]
◼
►
thing is that no one actually types you
[TS]
◼
►
know us us nerds do but the best or
[TS]
◼
►
people don't even you know type URLs
[TS]
◼
►
like the google has the whole you know
[TS]
◼
►
uh like a huge number back in the day
[TS]
◼
►
like they they could track how popular
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook was because my people you know
[TS]
◼
►
typing Facebook into Google to go to
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook know what's more people doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
really rusher but that's great about
[TS]
◼
►
during fireball even if you do your L or
[TS]
◼
►
you do a Google search whatever it's
[TS]
◼
►
going to its memorable and it's going to
[TS]
◼
►
come up right away
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't there a thing where oh off the
[TS]
◼
►
top of my head I'm not remembering it
[TS]
◼
►
right but there was a thing where the
[TS]
◼
►
number one result for facebook login was
[TS]
◼
►
no longer the facebook login page and
[TS]
◼
►
the poor bugger who had it was just some
[TS]
◼
►
guy site or something and they the guy
[TS]
◼
►
was just inundated with thousands of
[TS]
◼
►
people saying how to
[TS]
◼
►
what have you done to Facebook this
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't look like Facebook do you
[TS]
◼
►
remember that I I don't but that would
[TS]
◼
►
right it's pretty because that's how
[TS]
◼
►
people get to the facebook login sign
[TS]
◼
►
they go to Google and then type facebook
[TS]
◼
►
login hit return I'll expect expect to
[TS]
◼
►
be taken there funny stuff that's what
[TS]
◼
►
my son gets around the internet he just
[TS]
◼
►
type stuff into Google yeah that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's pretty normal
[TS]
◼
►
baby that's pretty normal behavior I
[TS]
◼
►
mean if people you know to the extent
[TS]
◼
►
people are still using the Internet I
[TS]
◼
►
mean it's uh it it really shows the
[TS]
◼
►
extent to which Google is the sort of
[TS]
◼
►
linchpin for the Internet I mean yes you
[TS]
◼
►
can type your Elle's go to places but
[TS]
◼
►
the reality is in the way that people
[TS]
◼
►
actually experience online is is the
[TS]
◼
►
rule it's not just about like typing
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook into Google search page but
[TS]
◼
►
there's just so much stuff there's
[TS]
◼
►
there's so many things that it's
[TS]
◼
►
incomprehensible to to anyone even the
[TS]
◼
►
smartest person person on earth I mean
[TS]
◼
►
and Google what make schools so
[TS]
◼
►
brilliant is such a brilliant sort of
[TS]
◼
►
invention is that you know the old
[TS]
◼
►
search engines the more stuff there was
[TS]
◼
►
the more they bogged down because they
[TS]
◼
►
were you know I mean the original Yahoo
[TS]
◼
►
was literally a directory I mean
[TS]
◼
►
obviously the future search engines
[TS]
◼
►
weren't you were much more sophisticated
[TS]
◼
►
but Google by sort of building on top of
[TS]
◼
►
the link instead of building on top of
[TS]
◼
►
the pages themselves it well it turned
[TS]
◼
►
out when you got more links Google got
[TS]
◼
►
smarter and understood it better and
[TS]
◼
►
well when the web got larger everyone
[TS]
◼
►
else got worse except for Google which
[TS]
◼
►
actually got even better and and and
[TS]
◼
►
that's you know that's sort of the core
[TS]
◼
►
piece of the company's dominance and and
[TS]
◼
►
why they're the you know the winch pin
[TS]
◼
►
for for the entire Internet which brings
[TS]
◼
►
us to Windows 10 s and the way that on
[TS]
◼
►
Windows 10s you can't change your
[TS]
◼
►
default search engine you get Bing and
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and I think that's I I believe
[TS]
◼
►
they're giving away tennis to yes I am
[TS]
◼
►
so that's that's at the primary way that
[TS]
◼
►
they're going to I mean obviously
[TS]
◼
►
there's app sells as well but app cells
[TS]
◼
►
and and Bing searches and stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that I think Bing is actually profitable
[TS]
◼
►
now or or very close to it it has been
[TS]
◼
►
for a little bit actually it should be
[TS]
◼
►
don't you think I mean it doesn't make
[TS]
◼
►
sense that they would keep they'd keep
[TS]
◼
►
losing money on it because I mean now
[TS]
◼
►
I'm still you know how much could it
[TS]
◼
►
cost other than labor you know yeah like
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's where those things where it
[TS]
◼
►
it's not like a Winnie er sort of thing
[TS]
◼
►
where they make a little more money a
[TS]
◼
►
little more money and that now they're
[TS]
◼
►
profitable they're going like it's like
[TS]
◼
►
you're either losing a lot or you're
[TS]
◼
►
making a good amount like once you get
[TS]
◼
►
the sort of scale effects that are
[TS]
◼
►
they're kicking in uh yeah it but it's
[TS]
◼
►
still it's not actually growing pretty
[TS]
◼
►
decently I should I think five five
[TS]
◼
►
point three billion in revenue the last
[TS]
◼
►
fiscal year I should try it again I
[TS]
◼
►
haven't tried Bing in a while I done
[TS]
◼
►
different max are different devices at
[TS]
◼
►
any given time I sometimes switch to
[TS]
◼
►
DuckDuckGo which I admire is the plucky
[TS]
◼
►
little startup you know and their local
[TS]
◼
►
to Philly to its which it gives me a
[TS]
◼
►
little affection for them but I have to
[TS]
◼
►
admit that there there's a lot of times
[TS]
◼
►
with DuckDuckGo where it's semi-free
[TS]
◼
►
yeah if you're going to do it you at
[TS]
◼
►
some point in a week you're going to be
[TS]
◼
►
typing to look there's a trick they have
[TS]
◼
►
you can even type like GE exclamation
[TS]
◼
►
mark and it redoes the same query but
[TS]
◼
►
redirects you to Google because there's
[TS]
◼
►
just sometimes it's you know it's it's
[TS]
◼
►
not as good as Google search I mean they
[TS]
◼
►
do some really cool stuff and I like the
[TS]
◼
►
privacy aspect of it but it sounds good
[TS]
◼
►
but the thing that surprises me is I I
[TS]
◼
►
thought Microsoft might catch up to
[TS]
◼
►
Google search with Bing cuz it seems
[TS]
◼
►
like the sort of problem that Microsoft
[TS]
◼
►
would be able to solve like it never
[TS]
◼
►
surprises me that Microsoft software
[TS]
◼
►
never has is nice of a UI as Apple
[TS]
◼
►
software because it's institutionally
[TS]
◼
►
they're just they just don't have the
[TS]
◼
►
people who have the taste for that but
[TS]
◼
►
web search is really just you don't have
[TS]
◼
►
to have taste for that you know it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's a purely algorithmic challenge to
[TS]
◼
►
get that right well they're not quite
[TS]
◼
►
you need data I mean the
[TS]
◼
►
the thing with Google is it is a the
[TS]
◼
►
algorithm itself is far bit far beyond a
[TS]
◼
►
any one person could you know it was
[TS]
◼
►
designed by a person to start at this
[TS]
◼
►
point it's so complex and have loaded
[TS]
◼
►
and a lot of it is is just constant
[TS]
◼
►
iterative feedback so when people are
[TS]
◼
►
doing searches it not in that I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
about the individual I search is just as
[TS]
◼
►
a whole like which results are they
[TS]
◼
►
quick like Google wants the first the
[TS]
◼
►
proper results we the first result so
[TS]
◼
►
they are tracking which result you
[TS]
◼
►
actually click on where how far down you
[TS]
◼
►
go and and plus websites are optimizing
[TS]
◼
►
cells for Google and they and so by
[TS]
◼
►
crafty has to you know would attach on
[TS]
◼
►
to that but it's one of those situations
[TS]
◼
►
where thanks to the feedback loop that
[TS]
◼
►
comes from having the most data and the
[TS]
◼
►
most users and the most searches if two
[TS]
◼
►
identical search engines if one starts
[TS]
◼
►
at fifty one percent market share and
[TS]
◼
►
one starts at forty nine percent market
[TS]
◼
►
absent sort of any exterior force the
[TS]
◼
►
one with market share is going to get
[TS]
◼
►
better over time relative to the other
[TS]
◼
►
one it which means which and then when
[TS]
◼
►
it gets better that lets it get more
[TS]
◼
►
users because it's a better search
[TS]
◼
►
engine and then it gets even more data
[TS]
◼
►
relative to the competition so it even
[TS]
◼
►
has a bigger advantage so the reality is
[TS]
◼
►
is even Microsoft could have the
[TS]
◼
►
smartest sort of search folks in the
[TS]
◼
►
world but because it's a problem that's
[TS]
◼
►
not just about algorithm design it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's about the entire sort of system and
[TS]
◼
►
having it a feedback loop they will it's
[TS]
◼
►
very difficult to to ever catch up
[TS]
◼
►
absent some sort of like incredible you
[TS]
◼
►
know breakthrough you can't buy your way
[TS]
◼
►
out and all there's no way to write that
[TS]
◼
►
it doesn't get you there that's
[TS]
◼
►
interesting I think your that to me has
[TS]
◼
►
to be the explanation because I just
[TS]
◼
►
don't think that I don't think the
[TS]
◼
►
problem is that Microsoft doesn't have
[TS]
◼
►
the intelligence in the engineering to
[TS]
◼
►
do it I you know and they obviously will
[TS]
◼
►
had no problem spending money on it you
[TS]
◼
►
know for years famously they were losing
[TS]
◼
►
billions on bing I think that's just it
[TS]
◼
►
though that Google so popular that it it
[TS]
◼
►
you know that their popularity feeds
[TS]
◼
►
upon their accuracy right if there are
[TS]
◼
►
seeds upon their popularity and this is
[TS]
◼
►
where Google is in some respects it's
[TS]
◼
►
like a Facebook effect but it's like
[TS]
◼
►
sort of network effect but it's not
[TS]
◼
►
necessary about people per se it's the
[TS]
◼
►
interaction between people and the sort
[TS]
◼
►
of data they generate but you get the
[TS]
◼
►
same sort of idea where the larger
[TS]
◼
►
service like because did I think I
[TS]
◼
►
always write a lot of about user
[TS]
◼
►
experience and the point I always have
[TS]
◼
►
to sometimes forget to make this and
[TS]
◼
►
when I forget to make this point I was
[TS]
◼
►
regretted because I get a bunch people
[TS]
◼
►
ask me you know pointing asking
[TS]
◼
►
questions user experience does not mean
[TS]
◼
►
user interface user interface is an
[TS]
◼
►
important part of the user experience
[TS]
◼
►
and is critical you know for something
[TS]
◼
►
like a phone for example that's in your
[TS]
◼
►
hand you're interacting with and
[TS]
◼
►
actually you know we talked about you
[TS]
◼
►
know we can stuff in Congress in a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit but the user experience is
[TS]
◼
►
the totality of the experience which
[TS]
◼
►
means you know having better search
[TS]
◼
►
results means it's a better experience
[TS]
◼
►
having more friends on Facebook more
[TS]
◼
►
family on Facebook not having to try to
[TS]
◼
►
recruit people to get on there means
[TS]
◼
►
it's a better it's a better experience
[TS]
◼
►
that has nothing to do with the
[TS]
◼
►
interface per se and these aspects of
[TS]
◼
►
the experience are they build on
[TS]
◼
►
themselves and this is why you have
[TS]
◼
►
these companies that are so dominant and
[TS]
◼
►
what makes it so tricky and I've been
[TS]
◼
►
writing a lot about this you know over
[TS]
◼
►
the last years so these companies are so
[TS]
◼
►
powerful because of these sort of data
[TS]
◼
►
effects and these network effects and
[TS]
◼
►
they're powerful in a way that's
[TS]
◼
►
actually better for the consumer like
[TS]
◼
►
google is popular because it's better
[TS]
◼
►
which means it gets more users and when
[TS]
◼
►
it gets more users it actually becomes
[TS]
◼
►
even even better which means it's it's
[TS]
◼
►
so there is it's positive on the user
[TS]
◼
►
perspective and same a Facebook it has
[TS]
◼
►
the most user so it more people join it
[TS]
◼
►
because it's there and the more people
[TS]
◼
►
join it now it has more users and you
[TS]
◼
►
get the same sort of feedback loop where
[TS]
◼
►
people choose it because it's better and
[TS]
◼
►
that sort of makes from a anti-trust
[TS]
◼
►
perspective that makes sort of US
[TS]
◼
►
antitrust like fall completely apart
[TS]
◼
►
because it's based on consumer benefit
[TS]
◼
►
and there's actually they're providing a
[TS]
◼
►
ton of consumer benefit that's why
[TS]
◼
►
they're winning right
[TS]
◼
►
all right as a summary of like 15
[TS]
◼
►
scenarios I've been writing about did
[TS]
◼
►
you see the story that in the verge had
[TS]
◼
►
it that the surface laptop now the most
[TS]
◼
►
like unique thing about these surface
[TS]
◼
►
laptops that they announced is that the
[TS]
◼
►
other than the keyboard and a trackpad
[TS]
◼
►
that what you touch on the front face is
[TS]
◼
►
like a like a soft touch leather like
[TS]
◼
►
fake leather type thing but it's like
[TS]
◼
►
it's called which looks awful to me but
[TS]
◼
►
apparently a lot of carmakers use it
[TS]
◼
►
high-end car makers well I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
judge it on photos but from the photos
[TS]
◼
►
to me it looks terrible I would not want
[TS]
◼
►
that I wouldn't if I had the choice when
[TS]
◼
►
buying a laptop whether I just have the
[TS]
◼
►
bare aluminum surface or like no pun
[TS]
◼
►
intended surface or have it covered with
[TS]
◼
►
this stuff if without having seen it in
[TS]
◼
►
person I would zero hesitation I would
[TS]
◼
►
just say just give me the aluminum this
[TS]
◼
►
seems like a disaster yeah but I saw
[TS]
◼
►
people excoriating Microsoft for having
[TS]
◼
►
said told the verge that you need to
[TS]
◼
►
treat it like a like a luxury purse or
[TS]
◼
►
something like that or a luxury handbag
[TS]
◼
►
and I think people took that as meaning
[TS]
◼
►
that it's like dainty and that it's
[TS]
◼
►
you're like you have to treat it
[TS]
◼
►
preciously I think that's how people
[TS]
◼
►
reacted to this like the headline I
[TS]
◼
►
think Microsoft says the fabric on the
[TS]
◼
►
surface laptop should be cared for like
[TS]
◼
►
a luxury handbag and I think the verge
[TS]
◼
►
did a disservice with that headline
[TS]
◼
►
because it's not really that's that
[TS]
◼
►
that's not a quote the only quote in
[TS]
◼
►
that headline is the word luxury here's
[TS]
◼
►
the actual statement from Microsoft I
[TS]
◼
►
hate this use of the word luxury just
[TS]
◼
►
like anything luxury that you buy like
[TS]
◼
►
that it should be luxurious or something
[TS]
◼
►
or any luxury product that you buy but
[TS]
◼
►
it still it seems self-serving for them
[TS]
◼
►
to describe it as luxury but anyway just
[TS]
◼
►
like anything luxury that you buy like
[TS]
◼
►
great handbags or a pair of shoes or
[TS]
◼
►
even expensive cars there is a care
[TS]
◼
►
that's needed for the device the so I
[TS]
◼
►
you know I think Note has to be some
[TS]
◼
►
care for but I think the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
people aren't maybe maybe now you and I
[TS]
◼
►
understand it with with our spouses but
[TS]
◼
►
you can get like there are handbags that
[TS]
◼
►
that are might be you know from a luxury
[TS]
◼
►
brand and they're not really dainty
[TS]
◼
►
they're actually the opposite they're
[TS]
◼
►
actually very they're they're built to
[TS]
◼
►
last for decades you know and yep and
[TS]
◼
►
you know you do have to treat leather
[TS]
◼
►
and if you get it wet you have to take
[TS]
◼
►
care of it right away and stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that but they actually hold up
[TS]
◼
►
surprisingly well they're not dainty
[TS]
◼
►
little Faberge eggs that are actually
[TS]
◼
►
much more rugged in some ways than than
[TS]
◼
►
typical lower-cost bags so that
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes you like as long as you buy a
[TS]
◼
►
nice bag or some nice pair of shoes that
[TS]
◼
►
are luxury but you buy them because they
[TS]
◼
►
last way longer and hold up much better
[TS]
◼
►
and age much more attractively than
[TS]
◼
►
something that's that's lower costs
[TS]
◼
►
right a difference it was a weird
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter account I was into for a while
[TS]
◼
►
was it was one of those ones that was
[TS]
◼
►
interesting only when it was anonymous
[TS]
◼
►
and then when somebody figured out who
[TS]
◼
►
the guy was there's no fun anymore
[TS]
◼
►
GS elevator remember that it was oh yeah
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it was so so put it was written
[TS]
◼
►
from the perspective of stuff overheard
[TS]
◼
►
in the elevators at Goldman Sachs and it
[TS]
◼
►
was often hilarious often very very rude
[TS]
◼
►
sort of from the that very lewd that bro
[TS]
◼
►
a alpha male banker mentality um but I
[TS]
◼
►
remember the guy who wrote it had liked
[TS]
◼
►
it was like a he also had like articles
[TS]
◼
►
I was just like alright so you got a job
[TS]
◼
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and an investment bank here's what did
[TS]
◼
►
you know your kid out of college here's
[TS]
◼
►
what here's the clothes that you need to
[TS]
◼
►
buy and one of his things was that you
[TS]
◼
►
should get like I forget I forget if you
[TS]
◼
►
recommended Gucci or what but you know
[TS]
◼
►
something like get like a nice pair of
[TS]
◼
►
Gucci shoes yes there's $800 or $700 but
[TS]
◼
►
they will last you way longer than 10
[TS]
◼
►
pairs of $200 shoes if you take care of
[TS]
◼
►
right yep you know there's obviously
[TS]
◼
►
some things that are luxury priced that
[TS]
◼
►
are not you know that you're just you
[TS]
◼
►
know like a sports car like if you buy a
[TS]
◼
►
Lamborghini you're just pissing money
[TS]
◼
►
it's not really it you're not really
[TS]
◼
►
buying it for the value of I mean the
[TS]
◼
►
car is valuable but it's not like you're
[TS]
◼
►
not going to sink tens of thousands of
[TS]
◼
►
dollars in it maintenance as you go like
[TS]
◼
►
nobody buys a Lamborghini because it's
[TS]
◼
►
worth it's a good investment reliability
[TS]
◼
►
wise compared to a Honda right yep we're
[TS]
◼
►
but there are some things like a nice
[TS]
◼
►
shoe or a nice belt or something like
[TS]
◼
►
that where you actually yes you're
[TS]
◼
►
paying a lot of money but it's actually
[TS]
◼
►
might be you might be paying five times
[TS]
◼
►
more than what you're used to but you're
[TS]
◼
►
actually getting like ten times better
[TS]
◼
►
product I don't think that the surface
[TS]
◼
►
laptop is like that though I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah I went to that's not I went to
[TS]
◼
►
use that word choice and yeah that now
[TS]
◼
►
that I'm looking at that just like
[TS]
◼
►
anything luxury that's driving me up the
[TS]
◼
►
wall that's that's terrible they have to
[TS]
◼
►
they have to have tested this I know
[TS]
◼
►
it's like last week on the showed Renee
[TS]
◼
►
and I were joking about that the iPad
[TS]
◼
►
our iPod that Kate I think was like an
[TS]
◼
►
iPod Nano that was super easily
[TS]
◼
►
scratched do you remember that was the
[TS]
◼
►
original the original nano yeah it was I
[TS]
◼
►
almost in a you know I would love is one
[TS]
◼
►
of those like behind the scenes things I
[TS]
◼
►
would love to someday get that story out
[TS]
◼
►
of Apple as to how in the hell did they
[TS]
◼
►
make tens of thousands of these things
[TS]
◼
►
or a half a million of these things out
[TS]
◼
►
of a plastic that you scratch with your
[TS]
◼
►
fingernail like what the hell are they
[TS]
◼
►
thinking how did that not get caught in
[TS]
◼
►
testing I don't mean if you saw one like
[TS]
◼
►
they and with in not long I mean they
[TS]
◼
►
would be just completely destroyed like
[TS]
◼
►
to the point where you could barely even
[TS]
◼
►
read the screen we in the whole it was
[TS]
◼
►
the whole front not just the screen like
[TS]
◼
►
the entire surface would be right would
[TS]
◼
►
be just completely yeah all shredded up
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's hard to remember compared to I
[TS]
◼
►
phones where everything is so much
[TS]
◼
►
closer to the surface now but with the
[TS]
◼
►
iPods even with the Nano there was sort
[TS]
◼
►
of a thick layer of screen or not even
[TS]
◼
►
screen but just plastic on the whole
[TS]
◼
►
front of all these models or a bunch of
[TS]
◼
►
them I remember we got demand when I was
[TS]
◼
►
working at Giant I forget we hit some
[TS]
◼
►
kind of milestone or something and so
[TS]
◼
►
everybody in the company got one as a
[TS]
◼
►
and in our company like Chad I forget we
[TS]
◼
►
even used for chat it wasn't slack
[TS]
◼
►
obviously wasn't around but the
[TS]
◼
►
equivalent of slacks IRC I wasn't IRC
[TS]
◼
►
that I forget what we were using but uh
[TS]
◼
►
hip hip hip tin and that was a long
[TS]
◼
►
title - yeah I don't remember uh I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know why I'm trying to bank on it but we
[TS]
◼
►
had like a company-wide chat who
[TS]
◼
►
everybody got these in we're like
[TS]
◼
►
everybody was you know having fun with
[TS]
◼
►
their new iPod in and it took like an
[TS]
◼
►
hour for people to be like holy shit
[TS]
◼
►
it's mines all scratched up yep anyway
[TS]
◼
►
it doesn't five man has already been 12
[TS]
◼
►
years I can't help but think that
[TS]
◼
►
Microsoft had to have like stress tested
[TS]
◼
►
these things with actual sweaty palms in
[TS]
◼
►
you know warm you know use it you know
[TS]
◼
►
use this for a while with you know maybe
[TS]
◼
►
have us in a warm room with somebody who
[TS]
◼
►
sweats through their palms or something
[TS]
◼
►
right these things can't just pick up
[TS]
◼
►
ugly palm sweat stains yeah I mean I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not that's right I want to admit to this
[TS]
◼
►
but my even my MacBook is always the
[TS]
◼
►
keyboard and that all ends up just
[TS]
◼
►
totally filthy it's pretty disgusting
[TS]
◼
►
actually I should probably clean it yeah
[TS]
◼
►
you probably should that's Crispin I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know I I just doesn't see my the
[TS]
◼
►
more I think about it this just doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
seem like a good idea I don't know it
[TS]
◼
►
just seems it too many laptops get too
[TS]
◼
►
grungy as is as as as easy to clean a
[TS]
◼
►
surface as aluminum is I mean it's
[TS]
◼
►
pretty hard to think of something that's
[TS]
◼
►
easier to clean than that it everyone
[TS]
◼
►
just wants everyone just wants them to
[TS]
◼
►
make a nice laptop that's all they want
[TS]
◼
►
just a regular they like but so they did
[TS]
◼
►
the surface book thing over they did the
[TS]
◼
►
surface and the surface book thing and
[TS]
◼
►
now there's a laptop but yeah it has it
[TS]
◼
►
has did but I mean there's I know
[TS]
◼
►
there's lots of politics and competing
[TS]
◼
►
with the OEMs all sort of stuff but but
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I'd rather get it I'd rather get a
[TS]
◼
►
think pad with the nub anyway I know I
[TS]
◼
►
know I mean I think it's it's so
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know didn't they used in the old
[TS]
◼
►
days it was like the nub was the only
[TS]
◼
►
thing right they didn't even have a
[TS]
◼
►
trackpad yep it used to be just just to
[TS]
◼
►
Justin up but not yeah they are both now
[TS]
◼
►
that's almost like an apple like
[TS]
◼
►
devotion like apples devotion to the
[TS]
◼
►
single button Mouse
[TS]
◼
►
you know in the world where everybody
[TS]
◼
►
went the other way the old IBM ThinkPads
[TS]
◼
►
devotion to the little red nub yeah well
[TS]
◼
►
I mean if you there's a lot of people
[TS]
◼
►
that I mean not like as relatively
[TS]
◼
►
speaking out a ton but there are you
[TS]
◼
►
know people like it I mean once you is
[TS]
◼
►
if you're used to it it's one of those
[TS]
◼
►
things where if you really like it like
[TS]
◼
►
why would you you're gonna just keep I
[TS]
◼
►
think that you drive even think about it
[TS]
◼
►
and I think part of the problem too is
[TS]
◼
►
this you know touchpads have always been
[TS]
◼
►
so terrible on Windows right that
[TS]
◼
►
showdown that was the big reason yeah
[TS]
◼
►
those are the big reasons that I when I
[TS]
◼
►
rise using OS that Microsoft I used to
[TS]
◼
►
think pad and that was the biggest
[TS]
◼
►
reason I started using it up in the
[TS]
◼
►
first place that the trackpad was
[TS]
◼
►
atrocious but then you know you use it
[TS]
◼
►
and you actually grow to really really
[TS]
◼
►
like it I mean the the not having to uh
[TS]
◼
►
like it I mean the the not having to uh
[TS]
◼
►
um I mean you're absolutely used to it
[TS]
◼
►
moving you move your hand much on on a
[TS]
◼
►
um on a computer but on a MacBook but
[TS]
◼
►
just having right there what you're used
[TS]
◼
►
to it's it's nice yeah it's great it's
[TS]
◼
►
given them an actual like
[TS]
◼
►
differentiation it's it in a world you
[TS]
◼
►
know like the big problem that PC OEMs
[TS]
◼
►
have is that what what's to keep you
[TS]
◼
►
know let's say you sell somebody an HP
[TS]
◼
►
laptop once they keep them from buying a
[TS]
◼
►
different brand the next time they buy
[TS]
◼
►
one nothing really
[TS]
◼
►
it's yep and the little red nubbin is
[TS]
◼
►
actually a little bit of a
[TS]
◼
►
differentiator if they have the the
[TS]
◼
►
muscle memory port yep I always thought
[TS]
◼
►
they were weird anyway what else do want
[TS]
◼
►
to talk about before we get to that what
[TS]
◼
►
Oh to to the to the WeChat thing yeah uh
[TS]
◼
►
well I think I actually think we've
[TS]
◼
►
through talk about various things have
[TS]
◼
►
have set the stage set set the stage
[TS]
◼
►
nicely so um oh yeah what do you think
[TS]
◼
►
about the two new echoes there's the oh
[TS]
◼
►
yeah there's the camera one and then
[TS]
◼
►
there's the the one with the screen well
[TS]
◼
►
let's talk about that after I thank
[TS]
◼
►
another one of our friends it's our good
[TS]
◼
►
friend just a new sponsor first time I
[TS]
◼
►
really like this company though Pingdom
[TS]
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p ing do em some it's a service for
[TS]
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monitoring web sites and servers you can
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go to wpm calm /l p / talk-show Pingdom
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comm /l p / talk-show and have a nice
[TS]
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little landing page there for towed
[TS]
◼
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listeners of the show address just to
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you you get a 14-day free trial and when
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you enter the code the talk show a check
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that's a big deal 20% being that makes
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everyone by offering powerful easy to
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any one of the website you can do
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anything with these guys it's really
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great so you got a web server you can
[TS]
◼
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just point something to it and they can
[TS]
◼
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like simulate visits it's not just like
[TS]
◼
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a ping to the server even though that's
[TS]
◼
►
their name but they can actually
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◼
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simulate an actual visit to the website
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and you can write tests to make sure
[TS]
◼
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components and modern websites have so
[TS]
◼
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many things where you're drawing things
[TS]
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from multiple services to to make your
[TS]
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website where it's not just one server
[TS]
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that can go down there's all sorts of
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fail points along the way and you can
[TS]
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write these tests with Pingdom to test
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they'll notify you instantly Pingdom
[TS]
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more than 400,000 outages every day Wow
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[TS]
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by a whole bunch of big names if you go
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to their website I told you Pingdom calm
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[TS]
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big names that use Pingdom for
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my thanks to Pingdom great great service
[TS]
◼
►
yeah so Amazon they have two new what do
[TS]
◼
►
they call them echo products they both
[TS]
◼
►
yeah there's an echo look which is the
[TS]
◼
►
just a camera and then there's the in
[TS]
◼
►
bill met they're pitching it for putting
[TS]
◼
►
in your closet right or wardrobe and
[TS]
◼
►
then the echo the bigger probably the
[TS]
◼
►
one they made a bigger splash about was
[TS]
◼
►
the echo show which is a has a screen
[TS]
◼
►
pen screen this is now now echo can show
[TS]
◼
►
you things I believe is the tagline
[TS]
◼
►
right and obviously also has a camera
[TS]
◼
►
since it does like photo video calls
[TS]
◼
►
right which I actually think is is the
[TS]
◼
►
most the most interesting part of it and
[TS]
◼
►
it really featured very heavily in the
[TS]
◼
►
sort of the introductory video yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
have to I have to watch that again but
[TS]
◼
►
it did seem like it's almost more like
[TS]
◼
►
the bigger announcement is that they're
[TS]
◼
►
doing their own they don't have a name
[TS]
◼
►
for it though right there's no they
[TS]
◼
►
don't have like a name like FaceTime
[TS]
◼
►
right no it's just it's just uh yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
it's not just the echo show because they
[TS]
◼
►
updated the the Alexa app and so you can
[TS]
◼
►
go between phones and the echo show and
[TS]
◼
►
or or echo showed echo show I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
for sure if you can go phone to phone
[TS]
◼
►
but I presume you I presume you can
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that's not about yesterday I wrote
[TS]
◼
►
that I presume you can and that's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
look it up and then I backed it up right
[TS]
◼
►
but yeah but it but it is basically a
[TS]
◼
►
FaceTime competitor without being called
[TS]
◼
►
a FaceTime competitor but that's
[TS]
◼
►
certainly what it is well it's because
[TS]
◼
►
it would so that the the trick to the
[TS]
◼
►
whole thing is that they've updated the
[TS]
◼
►
the phone app for I guess Android and
[TS]
◼
►
iOS I know the iOS once updated where
[TS]
◼
►
both for you to have one of these calls
[TS]
◼
►
with somebody who doesn't own an echo or
[TS]
◼
►
you know what good who would want to use
[TS]
◼
►
this if you had to be in the room where
[TS]
◼
►
your echo is to get the call thank it's
[TS]
◼
►
like yours all of a sudden you're back
[TS]
◼
►
to like landline days where you've got a
[TS]
◼
►
quick run to the kitchen to take a phone
[TS]
◼
►
call that that's not gonna fly but well
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but I mean I remember all the I
[TS]
◼
►
think the with the echo first first came
[TS]
◼
►
along you know it was it had in the
[TS]
◼
►
original interactive video which
[TS]
◼
►
unfortunately taken down but it was even
[TS]
◼
►
it was super corny and I'm a rock with
[TS]
◼
►
made fun of it but actually I kind of
[TS]
◼
►
liked it because it was and you can see
[TS]
◼
►
the same thing in the new echo show
[TS]
◼
►
video which is it's very sort of there's
[TS]
◼
►
no like fancy like marketing commercial
[TS]
◼
►
stuff going on here it's very
[TS]
◼
►
straightforward like showing people
[TS]
◼
►
explicit use cases for this product and
[TS]
◼
►
people go through use cases like the dad
[TS]
◼
►
is changing the baby's diaper and he's
[TS]
◼
►
ordering new diapers like it's not
[TS]
◼
►
subtle at all but I kind of like that
[TS]
◼
►
like it's you're not limited to a
[TS]
◼
►
30-second grab you're not trying to
[TS]
◼
►
instill sort of I think it's a mistake a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of marketers in tech have
[TS]
◼
►
traditionally made is they've they hire
[TS]
◼
►
these branding agency especially in the
[TS]
◼
►
early attack these Brian agencies that
[TS]
◼
►
we're used to doing like consumer goods
[TS]
◼
►
because we were packaged goods and there
[TS]
◼
►
it's all about building sort of brand
[TS]
◼
►
affinity because the goal is when
[TS]
◼
►
someone's in a store and they're faced
[TS]
◼
►
with like 15 options for crackers that
[TS]
◼
►
one or they or Joe or might be they
[TS]
◼
►
choose one and they don't really know
[TS]
◼
►
why they chose it they just they just do
[TS]
◼
►
and that's the payoff of all that
[TS]
◼
►
advertising and branding and all that
[TS]
◼
►
all that that sort of stuff with with
[TS]
◼
►
tech products it's much more of a
[TS]
◼
►
deliberate choice so to use sort of
[TS]
◼
►
brand type marketing I think is much
[TS]
◼
►
inferior to just showing it showing how
[TS]
◼
►
it works I mean this is something that
[TS]
◼
►
somebody my favorite Apple ads actually
[TS]
◼
►
were the original iPhone ads not the
[TS]
◼
►
first one like the holo hello at the
[TS]
◼
►
Academy Awards but now all the ads after
[TS]
◼
►
that for the first year they were just
[TS]
◼
►
showing people using the phone the ones
[TS]
◼
►
were they know that Bob Bircher I think
[TS]
◼
►
is nameless right yeah at the very end
[TS]
◼
►
the phone with the phone and ring so
[TS]
◼
►
they show them reading their times they
[TS]
◼
►
show them uh you know scrolling playing
[TS]
◼
►
a game or not playing a game but doing
[TS]
◼
►
stuff on the phone that you could do on
[TS]
◼
►
the phone and then active at the very
[TS]
◼
►
under commercial and it's the same one
[TS]
◼
►
every time the phone would ring say oh
[TS]
◼
►
and it's a phone and it was so effective
[TS]
◼
►
both in explaining what the iPhone is
[TS]
◼
►
they're also teaching people how to use
[TS]
◼
►
it it was some of my favorite
[TS]
◼
►
commercials just because I think the way
[TS]
◼
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they really it was a new way of doing
[TS]
◼
►
commercials I think it was much better
[TS]
◼
►
for a tech product and uh something I
[TS]
◼
►
was always very frustrated by when I was
[TS]
◼
►
at Microsoft because I thought they were
[TS]
◼
►
so so many the commercials were in this
[TS]
◼
►
CPG branding mindset when you're selling
[TS]
◼
►
a very different kind of product yeah
[TS]
◼
►
yeah those I phone commercials were
[TS]
◼
►
brilliant because they were fast they
[TS]
◼
►
when they were 30-second spots but they
[TS]
◼
►
they showed things and they I you know
[TS]
◼
►
they showed it they showed the product
[TS]
◼
►
but David was like real things and
[TS]
◼
►
they're like look you maybe you don't
[TS]
◼
►
believe it maybe you hear somebody
[TS]
◼
►
saying you know you can get Maps on your
[TS]
◼
►
phone now and on these iPhones you can
[TS]
◼
►
get a usable map but they'd show it they
[TS]
◼
►
say here look type Starbucks and hit up
[TS]
◼
►
one button very easy just says you know
[TS]
◼
►
like search or whatever and then a map
[TS]
◼
►
shows up showing how far you are from
[TS]
◼
►
Starbucks or whatever the example wasn't
[TS]
◼
►
a commercial yep yep exactly yeah the
[TS]
◼
►
map one was it was it was it was a big
[TS]
◼
►
one and that was any it was so
[TS]
◼
►
immediately became apparent what the
[TS]
◼
►
value was to people right right yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
yet this is something you can it's this
[TS]
◼
►
is something you can understand like
[TS]
◼
►
stood that did it sounds funny but it's
[TS]
◼
►
the thing that I think a lot of tech
[TS]
◼
►
people even tech marketers overlook is
[TS]
◼
►
that you tell a lot of people okay
[TS]
◼
►
you've got a cell phone we know that we
[TS]
◼
►
know you're frustrated by it we know
[TS]
◼
►
that you probably can't figure out how
[TS]
◼
►
to do anything on it other than make the
[TS]
◼
►
phone calls we're trying to sell you a
[TS]
◼
►
phone that does browses the web gets
[TS]
◼
►
your email has maps let you watch
[TS]
◼
►
youtube videos but trust us none of this
[TS]
◼
►
is more complicated and making phone
[TS]
◼
►
calls is even easier than it was on your
[TS]
◼
►
yeah is that it's exactly right so I
[TS]
◼
►
mean these these at these Amazon echo
[TS]
◼
►
spots are not like that there and
[TS]
◼
►
they're not nearly as you know high
[TS]
◼
►
producing they're still pretty corny but
[TS]
◼
►
if you're showing a product a two
[TS]
◼
►
hundred dollar product and in the
[TS]
◼
►
original echo I think was the same it
[TS]
◼
►
was $99 for Prime members but people are
[TS]
◼
►
on your you're on the web you have
[TS]
◼
►
infinite space you can show as short or
[TS]
◼
►
long a video as you want you're not
[TS]
◼
►
limited to 30 seconds and people are
[TS]
◼
►
being deliberate about their choice why
[TS]
◼
►
not take advantage of that and actually
[TS]
◼
►
show how this product might be useful
[TS]
◼
►
and and I think that's something they've
[TS]
◼
►
done pretty consistently with these and
[TS]
◼
►
and I think I think it's smart I think
[TS]
◼
►
it's a much better way to think about
[TS]
◼
►
you know marketing your product because
[TS]
◼
►
you're marketing a different kind of
[TS]
◼
►
product in a different context
[TS]
◼
►
particular for Amazon because it's you
[TS]
◼
►
know it's it's on there they have a big
[TS]
◼
►
website that they can use yeah I know
[TS]
◼
►
that the I'm going to get the name wrong
[TS]
◼
►
I can't remember these right because
[TS]
◼
►
there's weird like the echo show and I
[TS]
◼
►
could look but it's like to me adopt is
[TS]
◼
►
the little one well echo show is is the
[TS]
◼
►
one with the TV set and right go look is
[TS]
◼
►
the one that's like for your dressing
[TS]
◼
►
room right but you could call it like
[TS]
◼
►
it's one of those things where all right
[TS]
◼
►
echo look is the one that is a camera
[TS]
◼
►
and you show it you get dressed and you
[TS]
◼
►
get like a selfie and you can get like
[TS]
◼
►
some kind of analysis as to whether your
[TS]
◼
►
shoes match your belt or whatever but it
[TS]
◼
►
just the name echo look it could also
[TS]
◼
►
mean the thing that you look at the
[TS]
◼
►
thing with your screen right and echo
[TS]
◼
►
show which is the one with the screen
[TS]
◼
►
that could be the name of the one that's
[TS]
◼
►
the camera like here echo let me show
[TS]
◼
►
you what I'm wearing right yeah I would
[TS]
◼
►
call the other one like just this is
[TS]
◼
►
called echo camera laughing so too good
[TS]
◼
►
is it clear that's what it is right and
[TS]
◼
►
I think the the whole like gives you
[TS]
◼
►
tips on what you wear I I always feel
[TS]
◼
►
like they put that in for the tech geeks
[TS]
◼
►
like I mean the reality is like this
[TS]
◼
►
whole like taking pictures of your
[TS]
◼
►
outfit is a huge thing like a massive
[TS]
◼
►
thing and people do do it every day they
[TS]
◼
►
mostly do it by holding up their arm and
[TS]
◼
►
taking a selfie or staying in front of a
[TS]
◼
►
mirror and snapping a picture like and
[TS]
◼
►
like it's a is it like it's a massive
[TS]
◼
►
massive massive thing so I think that's
[TS]
◼
►
clearly what this product is focused on
[TS]
◼
►
that's the point of it and every maybe
[TS]
◼
►
in the long run it will be useful to
[TS]
◼
►
like do the sort of AI stuff but I was
[TS]
◼
►
like that was like throwing a bone to to
[TS]
◼
►
all the techies saying like oh and
[TS]
◼
►
there's this thing - it's a selfie
[TS]
◼
►
camera like that what it is and it's and
[TS]
◼
►
that's not to belittle it because that
[TS]
◼
►
is a massive market and and it's a
[TS]
◼
►
massive market that's really interesting
[TS]
◼
►
there's lots of stuff about like retail
[TS]
◼
►
and retail changing and one of the big
[TS]
◼
►
drivers of this is social media and on
[TS]
◼
►
social media it used to be back in the
[TS]
◼
►
day like what drove fashion was it was
[TS]
◼
►
all status thing right you want to go
[TS]
◼
►
and you're them all you buy the high
[TS]
◼
►
status items and then you would wear
[TS]
◼
►
them to school or whatever now it's much
[TS]
◼
►
more about standing out poppin on social
[TS]
◼
►
media and variety and having something
[TS]
◼
►
interesting and different is much more
[TS]
◼
►
important and I think playing into that
[TS]
◼
►
I love because you said we wear it to
[TS]
◼
►
school or whatever and you're I know
[TS]
◼
►
exactly why you said that and I think I
[TS]
◼
►
even know why you hesitated after saying
[TS]
◼
►
is I think you had the same thought that
[TS]
◼
►
I had did as you said it is you're
[TS]
◼
►
talking from the perspective of me and
[TS]
◼
►
you two guys in our Latino because when
[TS]
◼
►
when retail was the only way to buy
[TS]
◼
►
clothes that's when you and I were in
[TS]
◼
►
cyka school idol and and by the time we
[TS]
◼
►
got out of school that was when the
[TS]
◼
►
internet was a thing and I had the same
[TS]
◼
►
thought it's like well yeah back in the
[TS]
◼
►
days back in the days when you used to
[TS]
◼
►
have to buy all your clothes at the mall
[TS]
◼
►
you'd wear them school everybody worn to
[TS]
◼
►
school but of course there were
[TS]
◼
►
generations of adults ahead of us who
[TS]
◼
►
to other places yeah Venera it's it is
[TS]
◼
►
funny like it's always hard to uh or it
[TS]
◼
►
you have to be like super you're right
[TS]
◼
►
because the hesitation was the snap of
[TS]
◼
►
self-awareness like I'm probably over
[TS]
◼
►
personalizing this experience but but I
[TS]
◼
►
you do see this you know this sort of
[TS]
◼
►
like traditional brands that dominated
[TS]
◼
►
sort of malls and you know they're all
[TS]
◼
►
struggling you know mightily and you you
[TS]
◼
►
you see other things like there's this
[TS]
◼
►
uh other websites and services that are
[TS]
◼
►
much more inexpensive and it's much more
[TS]
◼
►
about having something unique and
[TS]
◼
►
indifferent uh as opposed to having the
[TS]
◼
►
you know teacher is everybody saying
[TS]
◼
►
that I think the New York Times just had
[TS]
◼
►
a story that the j-cruise
[TS]
◼
►
and financial distress the gap is too
[TS]
◼
►
there's a company know companies that
[TS]
◼
►
ankle and grumpy and Fitch like all of
[TS]
◼
►
them all of them are struggling right
[TS]
◼
►
and he would thought well Abercrombie
[TS]
◼
►
and Fitch was always a little bit more
[TS]
◼
►
niche you know because they had the you
[TS]
◼
►
know it smells weird and it purposefully
[TS]
◼
►
made an unwelcoming front it's actually
[TS]
◼
►
kind of an interesting retail strategy
[TS]
◼
►
where they they kind of made the front
[TS]
◼
►
of their stores sort of hard to get into
[TS]
◼
►
like I said I'm a big wide opening they
[TS]
◼
►
would just have a door and it was sort
[TS]
◼
►
of you know like they wanted you know
[TS]
◼
►
it's totally contrary to most retailers
[TS]
◼
►
but it was sort of like they only wanted
[TS]
◼
►
the right people to come in you know
[TS]
◼
►
young people who were shopping for
[TS]
◼
►
Abercrombie Coll clothes but anyway the
[TS]
◼
►
gap to me is more of the universal my
[TS]
◼
►
god everybody can go in the gap and find
[TS]
◼
►
something that they would consider
[TS]
◼
►
wearing too weird that they're having
[TS]
◼
►
fun and I'm not weird but it's just it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's obviously like a foundation of
[TS]
◼
►
American retail is crumbling if stores
[TS]
◼
►
like that aren't doing well
[TS]
◼
►
here's a question for you do you still
[TS]
◼
►
do you do you ever like when you need
[TS]
◼
►
like you feel like you need like some
[TS]
◼
►
new shirts do you go out and buy shirts
[TS]
◼
►
in a retail store and you buy everything
[TS]
◼
►
online I I look I usually every summer I
[TS]
◼
►
go and just buy a ton of stuff actually
[TS]
◼
►
we always it's a thing because my
[TS]
◼
►
brother lives in Minneapolis and so we
[TS]
◼
►
always go there and see my brother and
[TS]
◼
►
then one day we go to the Mall of
[TS]
◼
►
America and there's no sales tax on
[TS]
◼
►
clothing there and everything's there
[TS]
◼
►
and we just like spend one day buying
[TS]
◼
►
Early's I do try to buy all the clothes
[TS]
◼
►
I need for the entire year is what I do
[TS]
◼
►
need things otherwise yeah I go to
[TS]
◼
►
department stores here I don't I don't
[TS]
◼
►
buy I don't buy online but I mean
[TS]
◼
►
everything online here is mostly in
[TS]
◼
►
Chinese and whatnot and obviously a
[TS]
◼
►
little more difficult but my wife buys a
[TS]
◼
►
ton of stuff online she buys stuff
[TS]
◼
►
online all the time my wife finds
[TS]
◼
►
everything online every almost
[TS]
◼
►
everything I don't I can't recall the
[TS]
◼
►
last time she went out shopping for
[TS]
◼
►
clothes she just buys everything online
[TS]
◼
►
and unlike me she's not afraid to send
[TS]
◼
►
stuff back like that's my problem I I
[TS]
◼
►
don't I hate I just don't like packing
[TS]
◼
►
stuff up stand back it's irrational it's
[TS]
◼
►
completely irrational and it's not like
[TS]
◼
►
I've amassed all these like a big pile
[TS]
◼
►
of clothes that I don't like or that
[TS]
◼
►
don't fit that I just suck the you know
[TS]
◼
►
just eat the cost of it because I don't
[TS]
◼
►
send but it's why I don't buy stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
shirts like if I was going to buy like a
[TS]
◼
►
dress shirt I don't buy it online in
[TS]
◼
►
your last night I know I'm the same way
[TS]
◼
►
if I know that there's like a shirt from
[TS]
◼
►
Banana Republic that I already have one
[TS]
◼
►
and I know the exact size and I can
[TS]
◼
►
judge from the picture exactly what this
[TS]
◼
►
one looks like I would buy that online
[TS]
◼
►
but that's because I've actually tried
[TS]
◼
►
it on yeah I'm the same way I just
[TS]
◼
►
that's sort of like yes it's a hassle to
[TS]
◼
►
get in the car like go to the store or
[TS]
◼
►
however you get you to the store but for
[TS]
◼
►
me that that sort of hassle doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
register whereas having a bunch of boxes
[TS]
◼
►
and having to pack stuff up and put it
[TS]
◼
►
out and oh that's just like sounds like
[TS]
◼
►
absolute torture to me even if you know
[TS]
◼
►
even if you were to actually go through
[TS]
◼
►
and add up the number of minutes that it
[TS]
◼
►
takes it's less the the feeling of it is
[TS]
◼
►
is much worse so I'm now completely
[TS]
◼
►
view but for stuff like like underwear
[TS]
◼
►
and socks and stuff like that I don't
[TS]
◼
►
think I've bought anything like that in
[TS]
◼
►
a retail store in ten years I mean why
[TS]
◼
►
would you you know it's crazy I feel
[TS]
◼
►
like you feel like you need some new
[TS]
◼
►
underwear boom just like a couple of
[TS]
◼
►
items and it's at your house the Amazon
[TS]
◼
►
Apparel thing all is very interesting
[TS]
◼
►
because they're they've not announced
[TS]
◼
►
any numbers about it but there's sort of
[TS]
◼
►
hints that that it's actually doing much
[TS]
◼
►
better than you think and they're
[TS]
◼
►
growing really rapidly I suspect a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of it you know is probably things like
[TS]
◼
►
you just said you know basics and
[TS]
◼
►
whatnot but they're making for at a
[TS]
◼
►
minimum there for sure making massive
[TS]
◼
►
investments in it like just huge not
[TS]
◼
►
just the Amazon book although I think
[TS]
◼
►
that is interesting in that regard but
[TS]
◼
►
they have all kinds of interesting
[TS]
◼
►
projects going on they've watched
[TS]
◼
►
multiple brands uh you know that you
[TS]
◼
►
know that because they're brands for
[TS]
◼
►
they sort of categories own they own
[TS]
◼
►
Zappos yeah but this is this is all in
[TS]
◼
►
Amazon itself like I think it's not it's
[TS]
◼
►
not the Zappos thing was I think at they
[TS]
◼
►
bought them because they were doing well
[TS]
◼
►
in their own e-commerce sites and so
[TS]
◼
►
they want to bet they wanted to take
[TS]
◼
►
them out I mean they just closed down or
[TS]
◼
►
they're on the verge of closing down
[TS]
◼
►
what's the other when they bought
[TS]
◼
►
diapers diapers calm yeah same thing
[TS]
◼
►
they you know I think in the long run I
[TS]
◼
►
would I'd be surprised if Zappos remains
[TS]
◼
►
ongoing concern but I mean people like
[TS]
◼
►
it people go there so maybe they'll keep
[TS]
◼
►
those they'll keep it around but the
[TS]
◼
►
long run for sure is is all Amazon maybe
[TS]
◼
►
they want because in this is the other
[TS]
◼
►
thing oh this is the top of which talk
[TS]
◼
►
about I'm writable this yet but um the
[TS]
◼
►
Amazon Prime video be on Apple TV oh
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well that's here I'm making a note
[TS]
◼
►
we'll talk about that a minute yeah well
[TS]
◼
►
because I think Amazon is really trying
[TS]
◼
►
to own every aspect of your they they
[TS]
◼
►
want to be the facilitator of basically
[TS]
◼
►
everything in your life particularly
[TS]
◼
►
everything in the home and this is what
[TS]
◼
►
makes the whole echo line so brilliant
[TS]
◼
►
for Amazon it's I mean the opportunity
[TS]
◼
►
the reason the opportunity is there is
[TS]
◼
►
because the home is the one place you
[TS]
◼
►
don't necessarily have your phone with
[TS]
◼
►
you right if you're out and about you
[TS]
◼
►
always have your phone with you if
[TS]
◼
►
you're at phone if you're at home it's
[TS]
◼
►
plugged in and charging and whereas and
[TS]
◼
►
the other thing is if you aren't about
[TS]
◼
►
to just suddenly talk a Tran
[TS]
◼
►
it's getting perhaps more and more
[TS]
◼
►
socially acceptable but still a little
[TS]
◼
►
weird where it's at home to kind of
[TS]
◼
►
shout at Chartres and echo is is totally
[TS]
◼
►
fine but there's nothing like it's your
[TS]
◼
►
house you can do what you want but also
[TS]
◼
►
it fits with the sort of long-term
[TS]
◼
►
Amazon model of basically being the
[TS]
◼
►
infrastructure for your for your home
[TS]
◼
►
it's how the things your home get there
[TS]
◼
►
is how you resupply it's how you do
[TS]
◼
►
everything and so that's the focus on
[TS]
◼
►
clothes and echo and all sort of stuff
[TS]
◼
►
fits into that and having a uh having
[TS]
◼
►
another brand that's not Amazon I think
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't fit into that in the long run
[TS]
◼
►
especially with prime because they want
[TS]
◼
►
to be it's all Amazon it's all prime and
[TS]
◼
►
so I I will see how long that poses for
[TS]
◼
►
this world but it's I doubt it'll be a
[TS]
◼
►
focus of their sort of apparel efforts
[TS]
◼
►
oh I think that is doing well I just
[TS]
◼
►
maybe it's just continues to run as a
[TS]
◼
►
sort of independent you know I think you
[TS]
◼
►
could easily be it well maybe not maybe
[TS]
◼
►
they make you sign in with Amazon I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know but I thought I was going to
[TS]
◼
►
say that I think you can shop at Zappos
[TS]
◼
►
and not even know that they're a
[TS]
◼
►
subsidiary but yeah right and I think
[TS]
◼
►
that that's fine fram's I mean as long
[TS]
◼
►
as it's not someone else as long as they
[TS]
◼
►
own it here's the thing that it doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
surprise me but it's it it it still I
[TS]
◼
►
still found it striking was how much of
[TS]
◼
►
the reaction to the Amazon are the echo
[TS]
◼
►
look the one that's a camera for you
[TS]
◼
►
getting dressed was a sort of knee-jerk
[TS]
◼
►
you think I'm putting a camera connected
[TS]
◼
►
to the cloud in my dressing room you got
[TS]
◼
►
to be kidding me
[TS]
◼
►
um like a sort of knee-jerk I am NOT
[TS]
◼
►
putting a computerised camera that you
[TS]
◼
►
know uploads pictures to the web I don't
[TS]
◼
►
you know that you don't trust it or
[TS]
◼
►
whatever and I understand it and it you
[TS]
◼
►
know it certainly is it's a reasonable
[TS]
◼
►
concern that you'd want it to be private
[TS]
◼
►
and you want it to come from a company
[TS]
◼
►
that you trust and you know it common
[TS]
◼
►
sense that you'd think you know at least
[TS]
◼
►
think twice before you bought it and
[TS]
◼
►
but I think it's almost silly to take
[TS]
◼
►
the point that you don't think that
[TS]
◼
►
we're going to have cameras all over our
[TS]
◼
►
houses soon like it's clearly that's
[TS]
◼
►
where it's the only way to go yeah the
[TS]
◼
►
other thing too is I mean is a is a
[TS]
◼
►
camera really much worse than the echo
[TS]
◼
►
itself I mean the the entire category is
[TS]
◼
►
very but that's how we've acted that a
[TS]
◼
►
couple years ago they just dies down it
[TS]
◼
►
and I'm not saying that we should yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
think you know I think anybody who knows
[TS]
◼
►
me at all through the show or Darren
[TS]
◼
►
fireball would would guess that I'm it's
[TS]
◼
►
not like I rush headlong into new things
[TS]
◼
►
without thinking about them you know in
[TS]
◼
►
some ways on the lowercase C
[TS]
◼
►
conservative a lot of it you know and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't but you know I find out what I
[TS]
◼
►
like it and I stick with it so I'm not
[TS]
◼
►
drawn to new and shiny all the time
[TS]
◼
►
but I feel like everybody's a little bit
[TS]
◼
►
- in some ways it's good that there's a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of people who are whose first
[TS]
◼
►
concerns privacy as opposed to thinking
[TS]
◼
►
about the cool things you could do with
[TS]
◼
►
something like this but I'm reminded of
[TS]
◼
►
God it must probably like 99 or
[TS]
◼
►
something like that but way back you
[TS]
◼
►
know around the the millennium when like
[TS]
◼
►
Mac apps into Indy Mac apps first
[TS]
◼
►
started adding features where they would
[TS]
◼
►
phone home and just say like you
[TS]
◼
►
couldn't even upgrade it would like
[TS]
◼
►
sparkle the technologies where you can
[TS]
◼
►
hit a button and have you know you're
[TS]
◼
►
using version 3.1 version 3.2 is out
[TS]
◼
►
would you like to upgrade you just hit a
[TS]
◼
►
button and it downloads and upgrades and
[TS]
◼
►
quits and relaunches and there you go
[TS]
◼
►
you're running the new one but there
[TS]
◼
►
were apps that would just just put a
[TS]
◼
►
dialogue up and say hey there's a new
[TS]
◼
►
version do you want to go to the website
[TS]
◼
►
and download it and people freaked the
[TS]
◼
►
fuck out because they were like what the
[TS]
◼
►
hell you'd you know and and you know
[TS]
◼
►
sniffing the network traffic and you
[TS]
◼
►
know and and it's not like they were
[TS]
◼
►
revealing anything but the fact that the
[TS]
◼
►
app was phoning home with anything even
[TS]
◼
►
just check the version was too much for
[TS]
◼
►
people and there were people who would
[TS]
◼
►
be like I'm you know and a minute I'm
[TS]
◼
►
deleting this app I'm switching to a
[TS]
◼
►
competitor because there's no way that
[TS]
◼
►
where mine is going to phone home to the
[TS]
◼
►
developer server even if it's just to
[TS]
◼
►
check the Virgin and I I don't want to
[TS]
◼
►
make fun of it too bad but I mean that's
[TS]
◼
►
you know there is there an app that you
[TS]
◼
►
use today that doesn't doesn't notify
[TS]
◼
►
you when there's a new version and I
[TS]
◼
►
feel like yeah we're going that way with
[TS]
◼
►
microphones and cameras we are with us I
[TS]
◼
►
think there's there's two sort of points
[TS]
◼
►
to make one is your broader point in
[TS]
◼
►
this is the most important point is this
[TS]
◼
►
is sort of inevitable like we're going
[TS]
◼
►
down this direction and the fact of the
[TS]
◼
►
matter is that most people just don't
[TS]
◼
►
care and and this applies to their
[TS]
◼
►
online privacy it applies to and this is
[TS]
◼
►
the big problem with with you know sort
[TS]
◼
►
of fighting for for privacy when it
[TS]
◼
►
comes technology products is that
[TS]
◼
►
unfortunately people don't care and
[TS]
◼
►
maybe at some point there will be some
[TS]
◼
►
scandal that's so bad that is so big
[TS]
◼
►
that it will actually become something
[TS]
◼
►
that people care about but to date
[TS]
◼
►
there's no evidence that that's going to
[TS]
◼
►
happen people value convenience they
[TS]
◼
►
just they just do and and related to
[TS]
◼
►
that though that it actually is really
[TS]
◼
►
concerning like the whole echo thing
[TS]
◼
►
like I have I have echoes over my house
[TS]
◼
►
but the actual like it's not really
[TS]
◼
►
I mean amazon says that that they're
[TS]
◼
►
that they're secure and all this sort of
[TS]
◼
►
stuff but there's no really recourse for
[TS]
◼
►
people if they were used badly like it
[TS]
◼
►
really is just kind of trusting this
[TS]
◼
►
massive corporation is going to do the
[TS]
◼
►
right thing and uh and yeah obviously
[TS]
◼
►
people can and will track their network
[TS]
◼
►
and make sure that it's only sending
[TS]
◼
►
when you know when Alexis triggered
[TS]
◼
►
whatever might be and but then once it's
[TS]
◼
►
on the servers you don't really know
[TS]
◼
►
what's happening to it it really is a
[TS]
◼
►
massive massive problem unfortunately
[TS]
◼
►
it's a problem that absent some sort of
[TS]
◼
►
like popular will it's hard to see
[TS]
◼
►
anything being done about it right once
[TS]
◼
►
you once your yo dingus you know turn
[TS]
◼
►
out turn out the lights in the kitchen
[TS]
◼
►
command goes there you have no idea
[TS]
◼
►
where that audio
[TS]
◼
►
and how long and lasts and what they do
[TS]
◼
►
with it it's a bit as a black box so I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not discounting the privacy concerns but
[TS]
◼
►
I think and it's just like it's such a
[TS]
◼
►
small example but just like how apps
[TS]
◼
►
that can run a version check and notify
[TS]
◼
►
you of a new version it is a trade-off
[TS]
◼
►
of privacy where you know there is some
[TS]
◼
►
information of yours that is going to
[TS]
◼
►
the developer and they can you know
[TS]
◼
►
maybe you know a lot of times send other
[TS]
◼
►
things too like what model McIntosh
[TS]
◼
►
you're on and how much RAM you have or
[TS]
◼
►
something like that you're are trading
[TS]
◼
►
some privacy by allowing the software to
[TS]
◼
►
do it but in return you're getting
[TS]
◼
►
something of such convenience it is so
[TS]
◼
►
much that the days when you used to have
[TS]
◼
►
to manually you know like follow you
[TS]
◼
►
know there's to be a website like Mac
[TS]
◼
►
update where you'd like part of my
[TS]
◼
►
morning was go to Mac updating and what
[TS]
◼
►
was the other one version version
[TS]
◼
►
tracker you'd go to version tracker and
[TS]
◼
►
just see if any of the software I use
[TS]
◼
►
has a new version out and if so go go
[TS]
◼
►
and update it yeah I mean that was
[TS]
◼
►
actually part of my like daily routine
[TS]
◼
►
it seems like madness at this point and
[TS]
◼
►
you know there's so much of the
[TS]
◼
►
convenience of these AI assistants the
[TS]
◼
►
in were just just touching our toes in
[TS]
◼
►
it like I don't know I the more I think
[TS]
◼
►
about it and I know I've been talking
[TS]
◼
►
about it a lot more on the show like if
[TS]
◼
►
I were to go to a company like Apple or
[TS]
◼
►
Microsoft or something or n8 or Google
[TS]
◼
►
like what what would I want to be
[TS]
◼
►
working on I mean until now it almost
[TS]
◼
►
unquestionably what I would want to be
[TS]
◼
►
working on is you visual user interface
[TS]
◼
►
stuff for the GUI I think if I were
[TS]
◼
►
there now I think the AI stuff would be
[TS]
◼
►
what I would want to work on because I
[TS]
◼
►
feel like there's so much potential
[TS]
◼
►
there wasn't it's interesting about the
[TS]
◼
►
echo and with the echo show is I think
[TS]
◼
►
it's in some respects it was good for
[TS]
◼
►
Amazon to watch with just the speaker
[TS]
◼
►
because it sort of it was like the
[TS]
◼
►
original Mac launching without arrow
[TS]
◼
►
keys so you like you had to use the
[TS]
◼
►
mouse and like the foundation of it
[TS]
◼
►
being a voice interface was is baked in
[TS]
◼
►
very very deeply and so now the show
[TS]
◼
►
comes out and it has a screen but it's
[TS]
◼
►
not a touch screen it's still all
[TS]
◼
►
voice-controlled but it's a weird
[TS]
◼
►
came out originally we say why there's a
[TS]
◼
►
screen it's not touchscreen this is so
[TS]
◼
►
weird in people like wouldn't really get
[TS]
◼
►
how to interact with it now it's like oh
[TS]
◼
►
wow it's so much so convenient is it you
[TS]
◼
►
it's an echo with a screen like the
[TS]
◼
►
whole framing in the way you think about
[TS]
◼
►
the product is actually totally
[TS]
◼
►
different because they it was a more
[TS]
◼
►
sort of limited product to start out
[TS]
◼
►
with I did not realize it was not a
[TS]
◼
►
touchscreen I find that shocking it's
[TS]
◼
►
not a touchscreen I know wow that's
[TS]
◼
►
shocking to me I find that crazy I think
[TS]
◼
►
that's a huge mistake I think there's
[TS]
◼
►
all sorts of things that you'd want to
[TS]
◼
►
do that you'd want to be able to touch
[TS]
◼
►
to confirm or something like that
[TS]
◼
►
wait ah yeah no that's I'm totally wrong
[TS]
◼
►
it is a touchscreen oh I thought I
[TS]
◼
►
thought maybe someone at Amazon had a
[TS]
◼
►
stroke or something yeah I know I did
[TS]
◼
►
that's funny I don't know I knew it's a
[TS]
◼
►
touchscreen and I guess I got stuck in
[TS]
◼
►
my head that was not a touchscreen the
[TS]
◼
►
the the the point I was been meaning to
[TS]
◼
►
make talk about it ordered altitude no
[TS]
◼
►
way man we're living on the point I try
[TS]
◼
►
to make though is the the primary means
[TS]
◼
►
of interacting with it is is voice I had
[TS]
◼
►
it been a touchscreen to start out with
[TS]
◼
►
as I'm trying to say it would have it
[TS]
◼
►
would have been much more limited than
[TS]
◼
►
it is because every developers all the
[TS]
◼
►
skills would have all been biased
[TS]
◼
►
towards touch now they're all biased
[TS]
◼
►
towards voice you can add on touch yeah
[TS]
◼
►
that was weird I just completely
[TS]
◼
►
hallucinate for like five minutes there
[TS]
◼
►
I just wrote about it yesterday I wrote
[TS]
◼
►
about of being a touchscreen I just
[TS]
◼
►
think I do see your point that I see
[TS]
◼
►
your point though that it is it is voice
[TS]
◼
►
first and it matters what's first you
[TS]
◼
►
know that the Mac being Mouse first
[TS]
◼
►
influenced the design that the GUI in a
[TS]
◼
►
way that if you could have treated it as
[TS]
◼
►
keyboard first it that's how the
[TS]
◼
►
software would have been written because
[TS]
◼
►
that's how all the other software and
[TS]
◼
►
all the other platforms was written
[TS]
◼
►
right exactly exactly
[TS]
◼
►
now is you could use an original
[TS]
◼
►
Macintosh like if you had two of the
[TS]
◼
►
original Macintosh side by side and one
[TS]
◼
►
of them only had the mouse hooked up and
[TS]
◼
►
the other one only had the keyboard
[TS]
◼
►
hooked up you could get more done on the
[TS]
◼
►
one that had the mouse hooked up and
[TS]
◼
►
there might have been things that you
[TS]
◼
►
couldn't even do on the keyboard one
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you couldn't even get to the menu
[TS]
◼
►
bar the only thing you could do in the
[TS]
◼
►
menu bar was have the keyboard shortcuts
[TS]
◼
►
right and I mean in the long run day
[TS]
◼
►
they brought them back and it's better
[TS]
◼
►
it's better to have all you know the
[TS]
◼
►
arrow he's there and right and whatnot
[TS]
◼
►
but but as far as like getting the
[TS]
◼
►
paradigm watch and and you know if had
[TS]
◼
►
it been a touchscreen to start it would
[TS]
◼
►
have you know it that's just kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like it it was just a phone but worse
[TS]
◼
►
because it's locked in went one spot in
[TS]
◼
►
the to really drive home that it is a
[TS]
◼
►
voice interface yeah I think they're
[TS]
◼
►
better off starting there but that said
[TS]
◼
►
the other thing though with the screen
[TS]
◼
►
is I think this this calling thing we
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned do talk board with the phone
[TS]
◼
►
and stuff like that but I think there
[TS]
◼
►
really is value to being able to just
[TS]
◼
►
initiate a conversation and probably the
[TS]
◼
►
most interesting thing here in here
[TS]
◼
►
Amazon totally sort of ripped off one of
[TS]
◼
►
their one of their companies like that
[TS]
◼
►
they have a venture fund for like
[TS]
◼
►
companies that enamel acts have built in
[TS]
◼
►
there's company that built a voice
[TS]
◼
►
communication device that has the echo
[TS]
◼
►
built in and it's basically Amazon just
[TS]
◼
►
completely Sherlock them it which is bad
[TS]
◼
►
enough when its software and it's
[TS]
◼
►
probably far more painful when it's
[TS]
◼
►
hardware but once you have trusted
[TS]
◼
►
people you can drop in which basically
[TS]
◼
►
means you can initiate a call without
[TS]
◼
►
there having to go through it like
[TS]
◼
►
actually answer it or do whatever you
[TS]
◼
►
you just be like sort of instant sort of
[TS]
◼
►
thing now if that sounds terrible a lot
[TS]
◼
►
situations but for me I'm in a different
[TS]
◼
►
a separate office from down the street
[TS]
◼
►
from from the house to be able just like
[TS]
◼
►
turn on bail to literally drop in its
[TS]
◼
►
someone if I was working from home to
[TS]
◼
►
have some be able to you know come in
[TS]
◼
►
the stop the door stick their head in
[TS]
◼
►
it's the same sort of idea obviously
[TS]
◼
►
you're not gonna use it all the time but
[TS]
◼
►
the possibility I think is is compelling
[TS]
◼
►
and interesting and fundamentally
[TS]
◼
►
different from FaceTime fundamentally
[TS]
◼
►
different from having to get your phone
[TS]
◼
►
and pull it out for the kids to call you
[TS]
◼
►
know grandma like something like this is
[TS]
◼
►
really is more convenient than than
[TS]
◼
►
having to use FaceTime mmm-hmm
[TS]
◼
►
I forget what it was in the context on
[TS]
◼
►
one of these things where I was like you
[TS]
◼
►
know but just how crude all of these
[TS]
◼
►
things whether whatever your favorite is
[TS]
◼
►
you know the Alexa platform or Siri or
[TS]
◼
►
Google or whatever it's so early days on
[TS]
◼
►
them that will we will look back and you
[TS]
◼
►
know this is like to the you know
[TS]
◼
►
personal computer like what the Apple to
[TS]
◼
►
was in 1981 you know its we're just at
[TS]
◼
►
the tip of the iceberg but that you can
[TS]
◼
►
see where we're going and I wrote that I
[TS]
◼
►
know really what I want is I want like a
[TS]
◼
►
c-3po but I thought about a couple days
[TS]
◼
►
later I realized I was totally wrong
[TS]
◼
►
that that's too much because the that's
[TS]
◼
►
a having the actual like robot who can
[TS]
◼
►
walk around is an entirely different set
[TS]
◼
►
of problems for these AI assistants what
[TS]
◼
►
I want is how from 2001 and I I wrote
[TS]
◼
►
that and I feel like every time you
[TS]
◼
►
bring up how everybody just goes
[TS]
◼
►
immediately to yeah but he you know
[TS]
◼
►
killed a bunch of astronauts and tried
[TS]
◼
►
to kill the other you know tried to kill
[TS]
◼
►
the last one too and had to be how'd it
[TS]
◼
►
be put right on alright put aside the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that he killed people
[TS]
◼
►
hahaha and he but he did kill people for
[TS]
◼
►
a very logical reason you know that I
[TS]
◼
►
don't want to spoil the movie but it's
[TS]
◼
►
you know and about it if you haven't
[TS]
◼
►
watched doesn't what do you watch
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't one but if you just if you think
[TS]
◼
►
about the stuff that how does in the
[TS]
◼
►
movie and how the astronauts interact
[TS]
◼
►
with them it's exactly where we're going
[TS]
◼
►
it is exactly the it is it it could not
[TS]
◼
►
everybody is racing towards how where
[TS]
◼
►
it's not just a voice in a speaker where
[TS]
◼
►
you can ask how you know what's what's
[TS]
◼
►
the square root of 256 or something like
[TS]
◼
►
that and get an answer it's that it's
[TS]
◼
►
the home automation integration where
[TS]
◼
►
you can say things like tell your dingus
[TS]
◼
►
to you know close all the blinds if you
[TS]
◼
►
have blinds that are hooked up to the
[TS]
◼
►
smart house or something like that or
[TS]
◼
►
change the color of your lights or
[TS]
◼
►
something like that like that's how they
[TS]
◼
►
ran the spaceship is they would tell how
[TS]
◼
►
to you know open the pod bay doors or
[TS]
◼
►
something like that like that's exactly
[TS]
◼
►
where we're going with all these things
[TS]
◼
►
and it's you know and you watch and one
[TS]
◼
►
of the things that you know if Kubrick
[TS]
◼
►
got so well in that movie is that they
[TS]
◼
►
you know from the perspective of
[TS]
◼
►
somebody watching it in 1968 it was like
[TS]
◼
►
whiz-bang futuristic stuff like wow you
[TS]
◼
►
can tell how to open the door and the
[TS]
◼
►
door opens but the astronauts acted like
[TS]
◼
►
it was the most normal thing in the
[TS]
◼
►
world because they were used to it
[TS]
◼
►
anyway I think everybody needs to watch
[TS]
◼
►
how and realize that that's exactly
[TS]
◼
►
where we're going any other thing too
[TS]
◼
►
about how was that and it would have
[TS]
◼
►
been so easy from 1968 perspective to
[TS]
◼
►
imagine how as a big refrigerator
[TS]
◼
►
computing device that's located in like
[TS]
◼
►
the bridge of the spaceship and did
[TS]
◼
►
think of that you know because that's
[TS]
◼
►
what computers were but how was
[TS]
◼
►
everywhere right they were just little
[TS]
◼
►
little red cameras all around the ship
[TS]
◼
►
he was a system that was running
[TS]
◼
►
throughout the whole ship right and
[TS]
◼
►
that's exactly the model of like I mean
[TS]
◼
►
in the Amazon tivity where you you you
[TS]
◼
►
could sprinkle these dots throughout
[TS]
◼
►
your house so that you know if you're
[TS]
◼
►
upstairs or downstairs you can access
[TS]
◼
►
the exact same system the other the
[TS]
◼
►
other I completely agree I think it is a
[TS]
◼
►
great example of of the what what
[TS]
◼
►
everyone is going for the other point I
[TS]
◼
►
would make I was just think about this
[TS]
◼
►
in terms of FaceTime is Google launched
[TS]
◼
►
a FaceTime competitor I came or what
[TS]
◼
►
um wowing or was it a low no hellos the
[TS]
◼
►
chat app we have weirdly they launched
[TS]
◼
►
two apps separately the Google duo yeah
[TS]
◼
►
I mean it's a problem the problem with
[TS]
◼
►
that is it's a separate app you have to
[TS]
◼
►
go download it etc and it's work beyond
[TS]
◼
►
you know why FaceTime is built-in
[TS]
◼
►
now obviously the advantage is you can
[TS]
◼
►
through I could go across platform then
[TS]
◼
►
you're competing against Skype those
[TS]
◼
►
which which has similar capability and
[TS]
◼
►
it's just it's just a hard is it the
[TS]
◼
►
Google's problem is always sort of the
[TS]
◼
►
go-to-market how they actually get their
[TS]
◼
►
products and technology into people's
[TS]
◼
►
hands and you know obviously Android is
[TS]
◼
►
one way to do that but then you have the
[TS]
◼
►
the other cross people on iPhones
[TS]
◼
►
download its anyhow it's hard my
[TS]
◼
►
impression of Google from the outside
[TS]
◼
►
and a load a load duo thing is a perfect
[TS]
◼
►
example of it is that they're their
[TS]
◼
►
company culture is so resistant to like
[TS]
◼
►
you know like in and of itself there's
[TS]
◼
►
nothing on product like about a lo or
[TS]
◼
►
duo but there's clearly no overarching
[TS]
◼
►
strategy connecting the two or otherwise
[TS]
◼
►
they wouldn't exist as separate products
[TS]
◼
►
but there's nobody I don't feel as
[TS]
◼
►
anybody in position of authority to sort
[TS]
◼
►
of crack that whip and and guide it it's
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's just a thousand individual
[TS]
◼
►
cats wandering around Mountain View
[TS]
◼
►
doing whatever the hell they want yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
I don't know it is it is it doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
certainly does not seem ideal but the
[TS]
◼
►
difference here with the with Alexa and
[TS]
◼
►
this voice calling is because of this
[TS]
◼
►
show device like there is actually a
[TS]
◼
►
reason to download the app and to use it
[TS]
◼
►
because there is capability that is like
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's not just a ripoff it's
[TS]
◼
►
actually doing something new and unique
[TS]
◼
►
that is worth going to the trouble of
[TS]
◼
►
downloading the app for and so it's
[TS]
◼
►
actually I would argue much more of a
[TS]
◼
►
threat in the long run to FaceTime than
[TS]
◼
►
Google or Skype whatever even though
[TS]
◼
►
those have the advantage of being
[TS]
◼
►
cross-platform ello is not only
[TS]
◼
►
cross-platform but also has this third
[TS]
◼
►
dimension that makes you want to want to
[TS]
◼
►
use it hmm yeah I can sort of see that I
[TS]
◼
►
wonder how many people use a low I never
[TS]
◼
►
really hear about it anymore seems like
[TS]
◼
►
one of those things that you know an
[TS]
◼
►
example using it well I mean this is a
[TS]
◼
►
it's created for Google's benefit
[TS]
◼
►
because they need a chat app right yeah
[TS]
◼
►
like there's there's no market need for
[TS]
◼
►
it like there are plenty of chat apps
[TS]
◼
►
and this is the and you can't they added
[TS]
◼
►
some features like you can't just tack
[TS]
◼
►
on some features like you have to you
[TS]
◼
►
have to create a fund like the echo show
[TS]
◼
►
creates a fundamentally new use case for
[TS]
◼
►
video calling because it's like this
[TS]
◼
►
omnipresent object in a civil occasion
[TS]
◼
►
like you know in a place where it
[TS]
◼
►
actually makes sense yes it's kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
landline and blah blah blah but you know
[TS]
◼
►
you can't when you're wondering on your
[TS]
◼
►
house and your phone with you to be able
[TS]
◼
►
just shout out call whoever and you can
[TS]
◼
►
call other echoes you can it's not just
[TS]
◼
►
can call from echo to phone like there's
[TS]
◼
►
it's a fundamentally new use case
[TS]
◼
►
whereas these Google products had some
[TS]
◼
►
new features but the actual use case was
[TS]
◼
►
well served by plenty of other apps that
[TS]
◼
►
were there early and it's even more
[TS]
◼
►
difficult because it's a network
[TS]
◼
►
products and the single most important
[TS]
◼
►
feature the single most important
[TS]
◼
►
feature of any chat app is do your
[TS]
◼
►
friends and family use it like nothing
[TS]
◼
►
else matters beyond that yep because
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's like the old argument about
[TS]
◼
►
you know who bought the first fax
[TS]
◼
►
machine right who the hell are you
[TS]
◼
►
getting faxes from you just bought the
[TS]
◼
►
first one but all of a sudden if one guy
[TS]
◼
►
across town buys the second one all of a
[TS]
◼
►
sudden you've got something that's
[TS]
◼
►
valuable I mean it has more value than
[TS]
◼
►
it did when you each was the only fax
[TS]
◼
►
machine on the on the phone network and
[TS]
◼
►
this is what one thing was really
[TS]
◼
►
interesting was when the whole messaging
[TS]
◼
►
app like revolution would not it was
[TS]
◼
►
very brief was like two or three years
[TS]
◼
►
and what happened was it was really one
[TS]
◼
►
sort of country by country and in
[TS]
◼
►
countries which basically settle on one
[TS]
◼
►
service and that was it and it was over
[TS]
◼
►
like the fight was the it was done there
[TS]
◼
►
was no more there's no more of a fight
[TS]
◼
►
to be had and you had companies like we
[TS]
◼
►
Chad and line spending all kinds of
[TS]
◼
►
money trying to break into other
[TS]
◼
►
countries but once you're already
[TS]
◼
►
established absent absent some massive
[TS]
◼
►
leap in functionality like the reason
[TS]
◼
►
why messaging you know was such a big
[TS]
◼
►
deal is that in nearly every country the
[TS]
◼
►
world except for the US you have to pay
[TS]
◼
►
for SMS and I think this is why they I
[TS]
◼
►
still this is why the US thing is more
[TS]
◼
►
fragmented and is much further much more
[TS]
◼
►
behind as opposed to like message it at
[TS]
◼
►
penetration I mean and why I message is
[TS]
◼
►
probably the strongest the strongest
[TS]
◼
►
network because it's piggyback on SMS
[TS]
◼
►
but it's different it was different in
[TS]
◼
►
almost every other country in the world
[TS]
◼
►
we're not having to pay is a really
[TS]
◼
►
powerful way to drive adoption right uh
[TS]
◼
►
but once that was done once everyone is
[TS]
◼
►
already using a chat app that lets them
[TS]
◼
►
chat for free to get them to switch and
[TS]
◼
►
not just switch one person because you
[TS]
◼
►
have to switch everyone simultaneously
[TS]
◼
►
at the same time is basically these all
[TS]
◼
►
you know extreme
[TS]
◼
►
be difficult alright the lack of
[TS]
◼
►
foresight that the carrier's had by
[TS]
◼
►
trying to milk the SMS revenue at the
[TS]
◼
►
expense of well if we just give
[TS]
◼
►
everybody free at the very least they're
[TS]
◼
►
they're attached to the phone right then
[TS]
◼
►
a right number and we've got we've got
[TS]
◼
►
like a at least got a sticky platform
[TS]
◼
►
like in the way that I message has been
[TS]
◼
►
very very good Apple even though they've
[TS]
◼
►
never once charged a send one of apples
[TS]
◼
►
yeah right yes yeah I mean it's one of
[TS]
◼
►
apples but III probably - uh Natasha
[TS]
◼
►
before for sure I've complained about of
[TS]
◼
►
exponents but people often ask like or I
[TS]
◼
►
get emails whenever I write about
[TS]
◼
►
messaging messaging apps and people like
[TS]
◼
►
you know Oh Apple why is an iMessage
[TS]
◼
►
in the stock price well you know we ten
[TS]
◼
►
cent is worth X amount Facebook's worth
[TS]
◼
►
X amount Facebook Apple stock should be
[TS]
◼
►
higher because they have this this they
[TS]
◼
►
have iMessage and I know
[TS]
◼
►
iMessage is absolutely accounted for
[TS]
◼
►
it's accounted for in the phone like it
[TS]
◼
►
is a reason why Apple can maintain
[TS]
◼
►
charge such high margins on the phone
[TS]
◼
►
can maintain its share can be so
[TS]
◼
►
dominant in iMessage is it's not the
[TS]
◼
►
reason but it is a significant reason
[TS]
◼
►
why people on iPhones continue to buy
[TS]
◼
►
iPhones and so it's super valuable and
[TS]
◼
►
it is accounted for
[TS]
◼
►
it's just embedded in the iPhone yeah I
[TS]
◼
►
do think it might be discounted in some
[TS]
◼
►
ways but it's different than the
[TS]
◼
►
independent messaging platforms like
[TS]
◼
►
yeah but if you broke it out if I messes
[TS]
◼
►
was actually available on Android and
[TS]
◼
►
and why is that's all that matters yes
[TS]
◼
►
maybe the iMessage category or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
division would be worth a lot but the
[TS]
◼
►
iPhone I think the cost that would be
[TS]
◼
►
borne by the iPhone would actually be
[TS]
◼
►
even greater than that
[TS]
◼
►
right alright anyway when there was that
[TS]
◼
►
rumor last year that Apple was going to
[TS]
◼
►
ship uh I you know I message for Android
[TS]
◼
►
I I do believe in fact I heard from
[TS]
◼
►
people that they're absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
positively were mocks that were floated
[TS]
◼
►
within Apple but that doesn't mean that
[TS]
◼
►
there was ever any serious intention to
[TS]
◼
►
do it it's almost more like well
[TS]
◼
►
why wouldn't there be why wouldn't they
[TS]
◼
►
at least you know sketch out how it
[TS]
◼
►
would work whether they have any
[TS]
◼
►
intention of doing it or not but it just
[TS]
◼
►
seemed to me so unlikely because it
[TS]
◼
►
seemed to me like whatever they would
[TS]
◼
►
get from it they would lose in the
[TS]
◼
►
stickiness that my message gives to the
[TS]
◼
►
phone in terms of yeah any kind of
[TS]
◼
►
temptation you have if you have tons and
[TS]
◼
►
tons of blue bubbles in your text with
[TS]
◼
►
your friends and family any temptation
[TS]
◼
►
you might have to switch to an Android
[TS]
◼
►
phone when it dawns on you that you lose
[TS]
◼
►
all those AI messages and everything
[TS]
◼
►
goes green it's like it maybe not right
[TS]
◼
►
and that's why they in that that's a
[TS]
◼
►
motivation for making AI messages more
[TS]
◼
►
and more have more and more features and
[TS]
◼
►
and things like that I mean I think
[TS]
◼
►
they've done a poor job of it but the
[TS]
◼
►
motivation is to differentiate it from
[TS]
◼
►
SMS even further so that yet to switch
[TS]
◼
►
something else doesn't you know feel it
[TS]
◼
►
feels like a terrible idea
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I mean I I you know I'm not a I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not a big fan of I don't like using
[TS]
◼
►
Android in part I'm not used to it but
[TS]
◼
►
there's there's little things that I
[TS]
◼
►
don't like um that that kinda off the
[TS]
◼
►
wall but without question the but I
[TS]
◼
►
still I have a pixel now I've use
[TS]
◼
►
Android phones occasionally but I
[TS]
◼
►
messages without question the most
[TS]
◼
►
straight-up frustrating aspect of using
[TS]
◼
►
a Android phone for any period of time
[TS]
◼
►
I don't like there's little stuff but I
[TS]
◼
►
need with us a flirt or you can use
[TS]
◼
►
student get over it you can't really get
[TS]
◼
►
past their not being our message right
[TS]
◼
►
but it's interesting to think of
[TS]
◼
►
iMessage as a wholly owned proprietary
[TS]
◼
►
to iOS and Mac OS to a lesser degree
[TS]
◼
►
messaging platform that Apple owns and
[TS]
◼
►
think about this and tell me if you
[TS]
◼
►
think this is interesting hypothetical
[TS]
◼
►
but what if when Instagram was on the
[TS]
◼
►
what if Apple had bought Instagram
[TS]
◼
►
instead of Facebook and kept it
[TS]
◼
►
interesting I think of I I think it kind
[TS]
◼
►
of is like in the way that people use
[TS]
◼
►
you know that it that the blue bubbles
[TS]
◼
►
are seen as having more status than
[TS]
◼
►
green bubbles like imagine if there were
[TS]
◼
►
tens of millions of people sharing
[TS]
◼
►
photos on Instagram you know and you do
[TS]
◼
►
only wait you couldn't even look at it
[TS]
◼
►
unless you had an iPhone it is really
[TS]
◼
►
interesting I mean because you're it's
[TS]
◼
►
valued destructive uh you know II
[TS]
◼
►
according like theoretically its value
[TS]
◼
►
destructive to by a sort of like
[TS]
◼
►
horizontal service and limit it to we're
[TS]
◼
►
platform in the context of the service
[TS]
◼
►
itself so like Instagram is worth what
[TS]
◼
►
you know however a huge amount of money
[TS]
◼
►
vastly more than Facebook paid for it
[TS]
◼
►
they paid 1 million dollars I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
what I pay 1 billion but I would I
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be surprised if they tried to
[TS]
◼
►
sell it now I would I mean I would think
[TS]
◼
►
like 50 billion I don't know I mean it's
[TS]
◼
►
all yes it's worth so much that it's
[TS]
◼
►
almost you know you you have to it's a
[TS]
◼
►
who whatever somebody would be willing
[TS]
◼
►
to pay for it it's kind of like a value
[TS]
◼
►
on it and and they'd be pay they be
[TS]
◼
►
willing to pay a lot but so it would not
[TS]
◼
►
be worth that it by itself but to your
[TS]
◼
►
point by the time
[TS]
◼
►
Android came out and which was like
[TS]
◼
►
three days before Facebook bought it the
[TS]
◼
►
momentum and sort of place that
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram had in sort of like popular
[TS]
◼
►
culture even with only having however
[TS]
◼
►
many users it had it was it was it was a
[TS]
◼
►
thing it was very much a thing just
[TS]
◼
►
being on iOS and yeah I would it still
[TS]
◼
►
be a thing I think that's sort of the
[TS]
◼
►
longer-run question like would it be
[TS]
◼
►
able to maintain that or would a
[TS]
◼
►
cross-platform service really you know
[TS]
◼
►
whether I mean snapchat would probably
[TS]
◼
►
be much better shape today if if Apple
[TS]
◼
►
had done that uh being a something
[TS]
◼
►
that's more broadly accessible and um
[TS]
◼
►
it's a really missing it's a religion
[TS]
◼
►
point I Oh clearly Facebook would have
[TS]
◼
►
been would have if Apple had bought
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram Facebook would have done their
[TS]
◼
►
best given we see what they do with like
[TS]
◼
►
snapchat they would have tried seven
[TS]
◼
►
different ways to copy Instagram you
[TS]
◼
►
know whether it was with a their own new
[TS]
◼
►
app or whether putting it in your
[TS]
◼
►
regular Facebook feed you know just like
[TS]
◼
►
they've copied snapchats stories gimmick
[TS]
◼
►
like seven different ways so maybe it
[TS]
◼
►
would have been Facebook somehow would
[TS]
◼
►
have done it but I still think there's
[TS]
◼
►
something interesting there and the idea
[TS]
◼
►
would be that it would wouldn't
[TS]
◼
►
necessarily like Instagram itself as an
[TS]
◼
►
Apple subsidiary wouldn't be worth
[TS]
◼
►
anywhere near what Instagram is worth
[TS]
◼
►
today it's a Facebook subsidiary with
[TS]
◼
►
all the so many more users but it might
[TS]
◼
►
but with the iPhone be worth that one
[TS]
◼
►
buy the iPhone might be worth more
[TS]
◼
►
because people would be terrified of
[TS]
◼
►
getting a different phone because they
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be able to share their stuff to
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram anymore and they've got 4,000
[TS]
◼
►
followers or whatever on Instagram and
[TS]
◼
►
the only way they can keep that going is
[TS]
◼
►
if they keep buying iPhones yeah and I
[TS]
◼
►
can't help but think that that was I've
[TS]
◼
►
never heard this from anybody so this is
[TS]
◼
►
just complete speculation on my part no
[TS]
◼
►
not single birdy has ever said anything
[TS]
◼
►
to me but I thought it was so
[TS]
◼
►
conspicuous I thought it right at the
[TS]
◼
►
time that Instagram for Android shipped
[TS]
◼
►
coincident with their acquisition from
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook like it was only after the
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook acquisition was made official I
[TS]
◼
►
forget if like all the eyes were dotted
[TS]
◼
►
ya know it was like the same week yeah
[TS]
◼
►
you know I cannot help but think that
[TS]
◼
►
Apple might have at least been at the
[TS]
◼
►
table and you know the fact you know
[TS]
◼
►
would be a lot easier to never have had
[TS]
◼
►
an Android version than to sell the
[TS]
◼
►
Apple right exactly exactly Android
[TS]
◼
►
version and I think the only part of it
[TS]
◼
►
that was even interesting to Apple was
[TS]
◼
►
that it was iOS exclusive yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
famously without without question yeah
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram as it is today is not labeled
[TS]
◼
►
it isn't wouldn't know he's not
[TS]
◼
►
available Apple and you're in the end
[TS]
◼
►
right that you're not any cutting at all
[TS]
◼
►
right that's the funny thing is that
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram is more valuable today but it
[TS]
◼
►
wouldn't be more valuable to Apple it
[TS]
◼
►
was only valuable to Apple as an iOS
[TS]
◼
►
exclusive and it emphasizes their
[TS]
◼
►
product marketing that that camera is
[TS]
◼
►
better on the iPhone uh that you know it
[TS]
◼
►
it kind of fit in yeah you know mr.
[TS]
◼
►
Schiller shouldered deleted his
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram account right after that the
[TS]
◼
►
Android version the more you mention it
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I think they probably should have
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram would not be worth what it is
[TS]
◼
►
today as a part of Apple and it's very
[TS]
◼
►
possible to your point another network
[TS]
◼
►
will come along against and supplant it
[TS]
◼
►
worth more than 1 billion dollars of
[TS]
◼
►
value to the iPhone franchise without
[TS]
◼
►
question I bet you don't have to sell
[TS]
◼
►
that many marginal iPhones to to make up
[TS]
◼
►
a billion dollars I mean my end yeah
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's a really interesting point and
[TS]
◼
►
even now today I may forget what year
[TS]
◼
►
that was when that happened but even now
[TS]
◼
►
today it's it plays even more into the
[TS]
◼
►
camera emphasis of Apple's iPhone
[TS]
◼
►
product marketing yeah absolutely
[TS]
◼
►
yep I agree I agree is amiss I need the
[TS]
◼
►
real the real shame is any script sold
[TS]
◼
►
at all I mean the I feel like things
[TS]
◼
►
would be so much healthier if I mean
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram is really the purchase that
[TS]
◼
►
cemented Facebook's dominance yep
[TS]
◼
►
because it's its Instagram that that is
[TS]
◼
►
it's different enough from Facebook in a
[TS]
◼
►
way that it really the market need
[TS]
◼
►
market niche that it's filling is uh is
[TS]
◼
►
is really it was really a big a big hole
[TS]
◼
►
for Facebook and it'd be nice was an
[TS]
◼
►
independent company it's yeah yeah and
[TS]
◼
►
it's it a terrific complement to
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook and it's a better Twitter than
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter in some ways or at least a
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter it's a Twitter that knows and I
[TS]
◼
►
love Twitter I do love Twitter and an
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram is of course completely
[TS]
◼
►
pointless and useless for something like
[TS]
◼
►
news like as we speak today 24 hours ago
[TS]
◼
►
we just found out that the Trump fired
[TS]
◼
►
the head of the FBI it was a I'm sure I
[TS]
◼
►
don't know if what you did if you were
[TS]
◼
►
up maybe you were sleeping at the time
[TS]
◼
►
but as soon as you found out about it I
[TS]
◼
►
bet you went to Twitter right right I
[TS]
◼
►
mean you know politics over there side
[TS]
◼
►
when I found out that Trump fired head
[TS]
◼
►
of the FBI is investigating his own
[TS]
◼
►
campaigns ties to Russia I went to
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter to see you know what were the
[TS]
◼
►
news articles that were coming out what
[TS]
◼
►
were people who I was opinion I value on
[TS]
◼
►
such subjects Instagram has nothing to
[TS]
◼
►
do with something like that you don't go
[TS]
◼
►
to Instagram for breaking news but the
[TS]
◼
►
problem that twitter has that's part
[TS]
◼
►
that's that's part of history badly
[TS]
◼
►
right right and that's part why people
[TS]
◼
►
you know it it but it's Twitter like in
[TS]
◼
►
that it's the same basic model that
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter pioneered which is you
[TS]
◼
►
you it's very simple it's it's brilliant
[TS]
◼
►
it seems so obvious but nobody did it
[TS]
◼
►
before Twitter which is you have a feed
[TS]
◼
►
of the things you post and you pick
[TS]
◼
►
people whose feeds you want to see and
[TS]
◼
►
then when you look at the app you see
[TS]
◼
►
all of the posts from the people who
[TS]
◼
►
you've chosen to follow it you know in
[TS]
◼
►
one stream and you scroll down and then
[TS]
◼
►
when you get bored you hit one that
[TS]
◼
►
you've already seen before you stop it's
[TS]
◼
►
like they took that basic model and made
[TS]
◼
►
something that was very self-assured and
[TS]
◼
►
knew exactly what it was for and what
[TS]
◼
►
people would do with it like people
[TS]
◼
►
don't look at Instagram and say I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know what to do with this like they'd
[TS]
◼
►
like a lot of normal people do when they
[TS]
◼
►
see Twitter they're like I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
what I'm looking at right and the end
[TS]
◼
►
photos are are such a and this is
[TS]
◼
►
something that Facebook knew when they
[TS]
◼
►
bought Instagram I mean Facebook was
[TS]
◼
►
built on photos photo sharing but to
[TS]
◼
►
take to be break that down just to a
[TS]
◼
►
stream of individual photos and not only
[TS]
◼
►
that is it super understandable super
[TS]
◼
►
approachable and something people like
[TS]
◼
►
but it went itself very obviously and
[TS]
◼
►
easily to advertising and in a way that
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter you know it's advertising on
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter is is hard like yes you can have
[TS]
◼
►
the promoted tweet thing but it's so
[TS]
◼
►
like you're strolling past it so quickly
[TS]
◼
►
and it's hard to really sort of get
[TS]
◼
►
immersed in it and it's part you know to
[TS]
◼
►
start to add more media in part because
[TS]
◼
►
it makes a better canvas for advertising
[TS]
◼
►
but just the way you use Twitter is not
[TS]
◼
►
really amenable to it and Twitter's had
[TS]
◼
►
zero luck getting any sort of direct
[TS]
◼
►
response where you see something and you
[TS]
◼
►
take an action that's just not how
[TS]
◼
►
people think and operate when they're on
[TS]
◼
►
Twitter where's Instagram you know
[TS]
◼
►
you've had it there is successes you
[TS]
◼
►
people like put products like people
[TS]
◼
►
mall brands on Instagram because they
[TS]
◼
►
know they like looking at products and
[TS]
◼
►
sometimes they will look at a product I
[TS]
◼
►
want to buy the product and it's another
[TS]
◼
►
baking that possible no I've seen
[TS]
◼
►
product I you know just watch stuff I
[TS]
◼
►
follow a lot of watch accounts on
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram like and for obvious reasons
[TS]
◼
►
the watch stuff is way to me at least
[TS]
◼
►
it's way more interesting on Instagram
[TS]
◼
►
than it is on Twitter because it's all
[TS]
◼
►
visual it's like hey you know take a
[TS]
◼
►
look at this picture of a watch it's if
[TS]
◼
►
you're interested in watches that's you
[TS]
◼
►
know interesting whereas here's some
[TS]
◼
►
text about a watches not really
[TS]
◼
►
interesting I mean but yeah there's
[TS]
◼
►
product shots they have
[TS]
◼
►
thousands and thousands of likes it's
[TS]
◼
►
you know thousands you know it's people
[TS]
◼
►
definitely you know I for an advertiser
[TS]
◼
►
to get likes under ad that's that's a
[TS]
◼
►
like I don't all right like in the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the web you know they're trying to
[TS]
◼
►
get people from blocking off their heads
[TS]
◼
►
and whereas on Instagram they're looking
[TS]
◼
►
for them and yeah I know is it no it's
[TS]
◼
►
it's like no one is yeah exactly no one
[TS]
◼
►
is I mean some people do complain about
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you know as the getting the ads in
[TS]
◼
►
front of people do plan Instagram to
[TS]
◼
►
two-degree but um same thing with the
[TS]
◼
►
sort of Facebook you know sort of feed
[TS]
◼
►
there's the like what's so brilliant
[TS]
◼
►
about these mobile advertisements and
[TS]
◼
►
why they're actually it turned out never
[TS]
◼
►
ever was how about Oh mobiles were so
[TS]
◼
►
much less prioritized in desktops better
[TS]
◼
►
Baba well it turned out actually no
[TS]
◼
►
mobile was way more valuable you said to
[TS]
◼
►
figure out the format right and what's
[TS]
◼
►
so brilliant about the format of both
[TS]
◼
►
Instagram and Facebook is you
[TS]
◼
►
simultaneously have a much more of a
[TS]
◼
►
grip on a user's attention like an ad on
[TS]
◼
►
Facebook or Instagram literally takes
[TS]
◼
►
over the entire screen of your device
[TS]
◼
►
alright but it's a very but because it's
[TS]
◼
►
embedded in this feed that you're going
[TS]
◼
►
through it doesn't feel nearly as
[TS]
◼
►
obtrusive as I'm looking at this article
[TS]
◼
►
I'm looking at a web page on the on the
[TS]
◼
►
browser right now on the back and
[TS]
◼
►
there's this big banner ad on the side
[TS]
◼
►
it's so annoying and it and despite the
[TS]
◼
►
fact if you actually think about it it's
[TS]
◼
►
not actually obstructing me at all right
[TS]
◼
►
but it feels weird how that via the feed
[TS]
◼
►
is such a perfect advertising vehicle
[TS]
◼
►
right it it's as you know as you know as
[TS]
◼
►
the inventor right it just makes
[TS]
◼
►
intuitive sense to me in that it always
[TS]
◼
►
had it always did from the moment the
[TS]
◼
►
iPhone came out that of course it's
[TS]
◼
►
eventually is going to be a terrific
[TS]
◼
►
place to do advertising in some way like
[TS]
◼
►
the hard part is only figuring out the
[TS]
◼
►
right way but to discount it as less
[TS]
◼
►
valuable ad you have to be a moron
[TS]
◼
►
because it's obviously the device you
[TS]
◼
►
only have to spend two minutes in 2007
[TS]
◼
►
you know looking at an iPhone original
[TS]
◼
►
iPhone owners relationship with their
[TS]
◼
►
phone and see that it's by far and away
[TS]
◼
►
than the most emotionally attached
[TS]
◼
►
computing device that they own it's
[TS]
◼
►
right it's intimate and of course that's
[TS]
◼
►
valuable it's super value and it's with
[TS]
◼
►
them all the time
[TS]
◼
►
if Crockett that not be more valuable
[TS]
◼
►
you know it's again not I'm not saying
[TS]
◼
►
it was obvious at all that something
[TS]
◼
►
like inst you know Instagram I'd be a
[TS]
◼
►
very wealthy man if I had come up with
[TS]
◼
►
the idea for Instagram in 2007 but it I
[TS]
◼
►
just knew though that there was some
[TS]
◼
►
kind of opportunity there right right
[TS]
◼
►
crazed actually a discounted just
[TS]
◼
►
because you couldn't show the same type
[TS]
◼
►
of ads that you could show on that on a
[TS]
◼
►
on the desktop and write it yet let me
[TS]
◼
►
take a break let me take a break here
[TS]
◼
►
and think it our next sponsor unless you
[TS]
◼
►
had a good point to make you have a good
[TS]
◼
►
now I now I know no good point point all
[TS]
◼
►
right our third and final sponsor of the
[TS]
◼
►
episode is our good friends at
[TS]
◼
►
Squarespace look next time you have to
[TS]
◼
►
do something new you got a new company
[TS]
◼
►
you're starting you want to start a
[TS]
◼
►
podcast your own podcast you want to
[TS]
◼
►
start a blog your and it's it's may may
[TS]
◼
►
be your student your graduating you want
[TS]
◼
►
to put together a portfolio site of your
[TS]
◼
►
work do it in Squarespace make your next
[TS]
◼
►
move on Squarespace you want to make a
[TS]
◼
►
website do it on Squarespace I'm telling
[TS]
◼
►
you do it first by the time you spend
[TS]
◼
►
half an hour trying it in Squarespace
[TS]
◼
►
you'll be halfway to have in your thing
[TS]
◼
►
done whereas if you did it by hand you'd
[TS]
◼
►
still be you know learning PHP or
[TS]
◼
►
something like that I'm telling you you
[TS]
◼
►
can make your own website with
[TS]
◼
►
Squarespace with no coding experience no
[TS]
◼
►
programming experience no system
[TS]
◼
►
administrator experience all of that
[TS]
◼
►
stuff is all taken care of it's an
[TS]
◼
►
all-in-one platform this is the thing I
[TS]
◼
►
think people don't know don't get about
[TS]
◼
►
Squarespace is that everything from
[TS]
◼
►
registering your domain name to keeping
[TS]
◼
►
the server running to collecting the
[TS]
◼
►
stats that show you which pages on site
[TS]
◼
►
people are going to and and stuff like
[TS]
◼
►
that it's all there it's all in the
[TS]
◼
►
platform so you don't have to do well
[TS]
◼
►
you do this and then you have it's just
[TS]
◼
►
hosted but then if you want to get stats
[TS]
◼
►
you've got to install some other
[TS]
◼
►
analytics package or something like that
[TS]
◼
►
none of it all of it is right there in
[TS]
◼
►
Squarespace platform
[TS]
◼
►
and the thing I always keep emphasizing
[TS]
◼
►
is they have all these templates to
[TS]
◼
►
choose from but they have so many
[TS]
◼
►
templates and the templates are so
[TS]
◼
►
easily configured with your own graphics
[TS]
◼
►
or fonts or something like that
[TS]
◼
►
that your site doesn't look like a
[TS]
◼
►
cookie cutter Squarespace site I
[TS]
◼
►
guarantee you you you visit Squarespace
[TS]
◼
►
sites every day and don't even realize
[TS]
◼
►
they're Squarespace sites because they
[TS]
◼
►
look original to the brands of the
[TS]
◼
►
company whose site it is so next time
[TS]
◼
►
you need a new website go to Squarespace
[TS]
◼
►
calm and slash talk show and use the
[TS]
◼
►
code Gruber my last name when you
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◼
►
actually fork over the dough and you'll
[TS]
◼
►
save 10% off your first order my thanks
[TS]
◼
►
to Squarespace longtime sponsor the show
[TS]
◼
►
good friends all right we got to get to
[TS]
◼
►
China right this all right
[TS]
◼
►
China right this all right
[TS]
◼
►
no but you're on the show yeah III this
[TS]
◼
►
is my busy season um by busy season I
[TS]
◼
►
mean it's the NBA playoffs so I haven't
[TS]
◼
►
had a chance to listen to the your
[TS]
◼
►
episode last week where I think you
[TS]
◼
►
discuss this by a little bit but it was
[TS]
◼
►
it's what I wrote about was more you
[TS]
◼
►
know if you read my article than here
[TS]
◼
►
you know where I stand
[TS]
◼
►
got it yeah I hope I represented you
[TS]
◼
►
Farrah do you feel like I represented
[TS]
◼
►
you fairly uh yeah I think so I mean I I
[TS]
◼
►
still think I think the part where you
[TS]
◼
►
disagree with me you're wrong which is
[TS]
◼
►
fine because we can we can talk about it
[TS]
◼
►
it should we should because I forgot
[TS]
◼
►
jesting I would say that more like I got
[TS]
◼
►
more hey I usually agree with you but I
[TS]
◼
►
think you're wrong on this I got more of
[TS]
◼
►
that for that that stance then anything
[TS]
◼
►
that in recent memory
[TS]
◼
►
which doesn't make me dig in my heels it
[TS]
◼
►
makes me think there's a good chance I'm
[TS]
◼
►
wrong about this yeah and this is one of
[TS]
◼
►
the great things about writing for the
[TS]
◼
►
web generally that like it like you've
[TS]
◼
►
made this comment before and I've stolen
[TS]
◼
►
it because I think it's such a great way
[TS]
◼
►
to put it the goal I love being right
[TS]
◼
►
but the way you're right is by fixing
[TS]
◼
►
the parts when you're wrong right and
[TS]
◼
►
having tons of people giving you
[TS]
◼
►
feedback and is a great way to get right
[TS]
◼
►
much more quickly than was ever possible
[TS]
◼
►
before right I like to be right all the
[TS]
◼
►
time and a way to be right all the time
[TS]
◼
►
is to catch the times that you're wrong
[TS]
◼
►
and correct them and right is it like
[TS]
◼
►
that I totally stole that right like
[TS]
◼
►
from you but I think it's a great way to
[TS]
◼
►
think about right and too many people
[TS]
◼
►
who want to be right all the time
[TS]
◼
►
it's and let's say they're right most of
[TS]
◼
►
the time it they're defensive about the
[TS]
◼
►
times that are wrong and when they are
[TS]
◼
►
wrong they you see it all the time you
[TS]
◼
►
see it in politics you see it in tech
[TS]
◼
►
you see that anything you follow but
[TS]
◼
►
when they're wrong you can see it that
[TS]
◼
►
they're digging in and trying to spin a
[TS]
◼
►
way to make it that they're right
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whereas the racist thing in the world to
[TS]
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do is to just publish an update and say
[TS]
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you know what totally wrong yeah I mean
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I write these every now and then like I
[TS]
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actually I like it in some respects when
[TS]
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something comes along that I was wrong
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about and sometimes I'm factually wrong
[TS]
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or I get and that's fine
[TS]
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easy correction I just screwed something
[TS]
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up or whatever I'm like saying that
[TS]
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there's no touchscreen sometimes like I
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predictions are wrong or my analysis is
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wrong and in some respects I actually
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value that because as soon as that
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happens I will write a big post that I
[TS]
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will say what I got wrong I'll say why I
[TS]
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got wrong my thought process that went
[TS]
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into it what part of my thought process
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in retrospect was incorrect and then the
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value that that accrues is not just that
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now I'm right but also you know it kind
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of gives you capital to say other stuff
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in the future because people will take
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you more seriously because even if you
[TS]
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what you're saying is wrong like they
[TS]
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they will know that you're you know you
[TS]
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won you will correct yourself in the
[TS]
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future but - there's a process that goes
[TS]
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into it that it's not just sort of like
[TS]
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shooting from the hip sort of thing so
[TS]
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for me I actually think it's not just a
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benefit of the web I don't need an
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editor so although that's that is from a
[TS]
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very sort of small perspective the case
[TS]
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I think from a big perspective it's is
[TS]
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one of the wonderful things about
[TS]
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writing for a large audience yeah yeah
[TS]
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and it's sort of I could have chose to
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you know like being happy what every
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once in a while when you you know after
[TS]
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correct a pretty big error or just you
[TS]
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know like oh I was convinced that it was
[TS]
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all doors should open from the left but
[TS]
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dude that's idiotic sometimes the door
[TS]
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should open from the right he publishes
[TS]
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you know you just say it like that it's
[TS]
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sort of proof that the system works like
[TS]
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I you know a way of you know I like to
[TS]
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think that when I'm wrong I will
[TS]
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recognize it instantly and you know
[TS]
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swallow my pride and do what I can to to
[TS]
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fix it as unambiguously as possible but
[TS]
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if I don't do it for a while how do I
[TS]
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know that I'm not even though I think
[TS]
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that that's what I'm willing to do how
[TS]
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do I know that I'm not just going into
[TS]
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denial every time I'm wrong ya know
[TS]
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►
exactly and this is something that I
[TS]
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think about a ton like this idea of like
[TS]
◼
►
confirmation bias where you're you
[TS]
◼
►
always look for evidence that supports
[TS]
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►
your position and and what it takes like
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of like discipline to actively
[TS]
◼
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look for reasons why you might be wrong
[TS]
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►
which I absolutely try to do
[TS]
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►
but then also just having like I said
[TS]
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►
the the fact you get instant feedback
[TS]
◼
►
and people pushing back on you like
[TS]
◼
►
forces you to to think about that I mean
[TS]
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►
it's wonder yeah so any I'll is just
[TS]
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►
stay sort of meta sort of commentary the
[TS]
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►
oh so go ahead well I I think a good
[TS]
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►
example of that I think probably the the
[TS]
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►
review that I'm as a product review that
[TS]
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►
I probably did the worst job on was the
[TS]
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►
original Apple watch and that's why I
[TS]
◼
►
like a month later I wrote like a second
[TS]
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►
one was more or less the same basic idea
[TS]
◼
►
of here's this new product from Apple
[TS]
◼
►
what is it what do I think about it like
[TS]
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►
the first one was just it I don't know
[TS]
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►
it wasn't awful but it wasn't like
[TS]
◼
►
poorly written but just I just never sat
[TS]
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right with me and rereading it a month
[TS]
◼
►
later I was like just I did I don't know
[TS]
◼
►
it felt like a swing on a mess and I
[TS]
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►
feel like part of the problem was that
[TS]
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►
it was it was too much of a what's good
[TS]
◼
►
about this product review whereas it
[TS]
◼
►
should have you know it wasn't it was
[TS]
◼
►
written from that perspective I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know if that's quite confirmation bias
[TS]
◼
►
but it's it Apple wouldn't do this if
[TS]
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►
they didn't have a good reason to do it
[TS]
◼
►
so what are those good reasons whereas
[TS]
◼
►
think the story was more this is a you
[TS]
◼
►
know especially that 1.0 watch was this
[TS]
◼
►
is a product that doesn't really know
[TS]
◼
►
what it's good for
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah no I mean it's funny I I was
[TS]
◼
►
all over the place on the watch my
[TS]
◼
►
original take was that which is like
[TS]
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►
this is a product that is lacking vision
[TS]
◼
►
like it doesn't know what it is
[TS]
◼
►
I think that's get more accurate
[TS]
◼
►
writings I was then I went back and I in
[TS]
◼
►
I actually fell into the like I had too
[TS]
◼
►
much faith in Apple like dunno really
[TS]
◼
►
are they really just watching this
[TS]
◼
►
beautiful device and then that's really
[TS]
◼
►
the point and and so I actually went
[TS]
◼
►
back and changed my mind and that this
[TS]
◼
►
very notorious contentious episode of
[TS]
◼
►
exponent were being James arguing about
[TS]
◼
►
it and then I and then eventually I
[TS]
◼
►
didn't back my in this case my fix was
[TS]
◼
►
actually wrong and worse and so I had to
[TS]
◼
►
go back into like you know actually I
[TS]
◼
►
had it right the first time and now it's
[TS]
◼
►
a I hate that I hate that that happened
[TS]
◼
►
especially because I actually had it
[TS]
◼
►
right the first time but yeah I mean
[TS]
◼
►
whatever it happens if you're giving
[TS]
◼
►
your if you're giving your analysis or
[TS]
◼
►
opinion four days a week you're going to
[TS]
◼
►
get it wrong which is fine as long as
[TS]
◼
►
you as long as you correct it so you you
[TS]
◼
►
run in as we've spoken about this that
[TS]
◼
►
we you don't right Stratego e is not
[TS]
◼
►
it's the tech in general I mean and if
[TS]
◼
►
you tend to fight against er tech reef
[TS]
◼
►
so to take your attacker ease detectors
[TS]
◼
►
a daiquiri tech about tech I honestly
[TS]
◼
►
don't even do it to brass you I honestly
[TS]
◼
►
have done it I though I make it a
[TS]
◼
►
certain amount the mister I pronounce it
[TS]
◼
►
differently at the beginning so I made
[TS]
◼
►
it even worse is already a bad name and
[TS]
◼
►
I made it worse so it's all 100 my fault
[TS]
◼
►
but alas it is what it is so um I just
[TS]
◼
►
tell people why people as what my slide
[TS]
◼
►
I just um to search for Ben Thompson on
[TS]
◼
►
Google because the that's the to don't
[TS]
◼
►
Jason freed thing like we were talking
[TS]
◼
►
about domain names like for years and
[TS]
◼
►
they didn't have base camp comm they
[TS]
◼
►
have it now but they just had basecamphq
[TS]
◼
►
calm because he didn't yeah he didn't
[TS]
◼
►
you know somebody had base camp dot-com
[TS]
◼
►
and he didn't feel like paying their
[TS]
◼
►
exorbitant price he did eventually but
[TS]
◼
►
he was like screw it people just google
[TS]
◼
►
for base camp anyway right it is true
[TS]
◼
►
anyway I you've written about this like
[TS]
◼
►
so you don't um it's certainly not your
[TS]
◼
►
writing is not Apple focused it not even
[TS]
◼
►
in a way that mine is but you certainly
[TS]
◼
►
do right enough about apples simply
[TS]
◼
►
because if you write about tech in
[TS]
◼
►
general Apple is kind of a big company
[TS]
◼
►
and they kind of do enter a lot of tend
[TS]
◼
►
to do interesting things but you've
[TS]
◼
►
spoken about this that when you write
[TS]
◼
►
articles or have like a column that's
[TS]
◼
►
sort of critical of Apple you you get
[TS]
◼
►
like on subscriptions sometimes it so
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I don't want to hear it no way
[TS]
◼
►
that's always been the case I mean it
[TS]
◼
►
was so when I started I wrote a lot more
[TS]
◼
►
probably even more about Apple in part
[TS]
◼
►
because that was the company I knew the
[TS]
◼
►
best like I've been following closely
[TS]
◼
►
I'd written like I'd written a huge
[TS]
◼
►
paper about them in school uh like in I
[TS]
◼
►
spent a lot of time trying to understand
[TS]
◼
►
and think about what made them
[TS]
◼
►
successful and I was saying in turn
[TS]
◼
►
there um it at a university would in
[TS]
◼
►
what God came to learn and understand so
[TS]
◼
►
much about sort of the inner workings it
[TS]
◼
►
was a fantastic experience and
[TS]
◼
►
especially when I started also it was
[TS]
◼
►
when the whole Samsung is gonna is
[TS]
◼
►
disrupting Apple narrative was was in
[TS]
◼
►
and so I got tons of articles saying
[TS]
◼
►
this is dumb like India trying to
[TS]
◼
►
explain Apple and their differentiation
[TS]
◼
►
and back then it was controversial to
[TS]
◼
►
say that iOS it was not going to be
[TS]
◼
►
swamped by Android and developers
[TS]
◼
►
working awfully on mass and all the sort
[TS]
◼
►
of stuff like that was still a thing
[TS]
◼
►
back then yeah so I am an iPhone dead in
[TS]
◼
►
the water Henry Blodgett right right and
[TS]
◼
►
and the biggest you know as I've
[TS]
◼
►
recounted the sort of biggest event in
[TS]
◼
►
the early church every day's for gaining
[TS]
◼
►
readership was you linking to me and
[TS]
◼
►
saying you know this is a fantastic new
[TS]
◼
►
blog and you wink too much are a bunch
[TS]
◼
►
of articles and as per kind of like this
[TS]
◼
►
column this week like oh this is a great
[TS]
◼
►
blog the really good biloba but for the
[TS]
◼
►
first time I disagree with mr. Thomson
[TS]
◼
►
that he like explained where explain
[TS]
◼
►
where I was wrong um which but that was
[TS]
◼
►
an outright disagreement though not this
[TS]
◼
►
time this time it's like I said it's a
[TS]
◼
►
subtle difference of of wait I would say
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and I actually I actually think
[TS]
◼
►
you're right in that case um and so it
[TS]
◼
►
was definitely right back then I was
[TS]
◼
►
just waited that's the I was just really
[TS]
◼
►
I was just waiting for you to make a
[TS]
◼
►
mistake and then I knew I could link to
[TS]
◼
►
you because then instead of just saying
[TS]
◼
►
how great it was I could also point out
[TS]
◼
►
that you made an error and you're
[TS]
◼
►
thinking I was just a hit for it would
[TS]
◼
►
the the lot of service always sort of my
[TS]
◼
►
initial and then after that I got linked
[TS]
◼
►
to by Marco a couple times and so I
[TS]
◼
►
really started in the sort of Apple
[TS]
◼
►
blogosphere is where awareness of me
[TS]
◼
►
started to grow so a lot of my initial
[TS]
◼
►
followers were were in that in that
[TS]
◼
►
arena so if that's forward like a year
[TS]
◼
►
or something and I wrote something about
[TS]
◼
►
Apple and services and basically I was a
[TS]
◼
►
this was a I said it was in a good point
[TS]
◼
►
it's a point that I brought up again and
[TS]
◼
►
again is how companies are sort of
[TS]
◼
►
shaped by their by their origin and
[TS]
◼
►
they're there and that influences the
[TS]
◼
►
culture and the way they approach
[TS]
◼
►
products for the entire life of a
[TS]
◼
►
company and I gave talk about Google
[TS]
◼
►
talked about Microsoft talked about
[TS]
◼
►
Apple talked about a bunch of examples
[TS]
◼
►
and this case I was make trying to
[TS]
◼
►
explain that Apple struggle with
[TS]
◼
►
services not because they're dumb but
[TS]
◼
►
because they're so great at products and
[TS]
◼
►
this is a point you know obviously I've
[TS]
◼
►
returned to this point in the past like
[TS]
◼
►
to say that Apple strove the services is
[TS]
◼
►
not to criticize Apple or say they're
[TS]
◼
►
dumb people it's
[TS]
◼
►
in a recognition that the same things
[TS]
◼
►
that make Apple the best product company
[TS]
◼
►
an amazing product company work against
[TS]
◼
►
being a great services company right ETL
[TS]
◼
►
people didn't want to hear after people
[TS]
◼
►
did not want to hear it so I had just
[TS]
◼
►
started the daily update then and so my
[TS]
◼
►
you know my subscriber numbers were in
[TS]
◼
►
the you know I think at that point as
[TS]
◼
►
only a couple months in so maybe the low
[TS]
◼
►
hundreds and I got like 20 or 30 like
[TS]
◼
►
unsubscription like immediately people
[TS]
◼
►
were met and it was it was shocking like
[TS]
◼
►
I did not expect that to come at all um
[TS]
◼
►
it was good it was a good lesson to
[TS]
◼
►
learn like the people were cared more
[TS]
◼
►
about Apple than they did about me and
[TS]
◼
►
that's fine I have no no problem with
[TS]
◼
►
that and over time you know certainly
[TS]
◼
►
I've come to build up you know a user
[TS]
◼
►
base and when the great things why model
[TS]
◼
►
is it's ten dollars a month so if you
[TS]
◼
►
want to quit it doesn't really affect me
[TS]
◼
►
my life in the slightest which is great
[TS]
◼
►
but I actually love that about about
[TS]
◼
►
this model but yeah it's funny whenever
[TS]
◼
►
I write something that is not purely
[TS]
◼
►
optimistic about Apple there is
[TS]
◼
►
definitely an uptick in people turning
[TS]
◼
►
off auto renewal and there are other
[TS]
◼
►
subscriptions I've seen it on sports
[TS]
◼
►
- like I follow some Yankees beat
[TS]