The Talk Show

◼   ► lots to talk about what do you want to [TS]

◼   ► start with you wanna start with this [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft build keynote yeah it was it [TS]

◼   ► was interesting as you watch it now I [TS]

◼   ► didn't watch it I was going to whoever [TS]

◼   ► uh yeah sorry I failed to value out [TS]

◼   ► there uh it was it was good uh it was [TS]

◼   ► funny I really liked it the as I was [TS]

◼   ► listening to it he like there was a very [TS]

◼   ► much a sort of coherent vision you know [TS]

◼   ► that took the idea of you know Microsoft [TS]

◼   ► but you know by necessity has to kind of [TS]

◼   ► you know weep over the the mobile sort [TS]

◼   ► of area and to extent they certainly [TS]

◼   ► have in the cloud but kind of painting a [TS]

◼   ► vision beyond that and kind of from a [TS]

◼   ► big picture what I liked best is that at [TS]

◼   ► previous builds there's always two [TS]

◼   ► keynotes yeah and the first day is [TS]

◼   ► usually sort of the windows keynote and [TS]

◼   ► the second day is the azure keynote and [TS]

◼   ► this year it's the opposite as er is the [TS]

◼   ► first day in Windows the second day and [TS]

◼   ► I think that's appropriate because [TS]

◼   ► that's realistically where Microsoft's [TS]

◼   ► growth and opportunities are so so from [TS]

◼   ► that perspective I you know I enjoyed it [TS]

◼   ► I think the the problem though is all [TS]

◼   ► that stuff on the edge Mike I'll talk [TS]

◼   ► about building a sort of thing from the [TS]

◼   ► from the quality of the edge like they [TS]

◼   ► don't have very many edge end points and [TS]

◼   ► that continues to be a problem hmm [TS]

◼   ► edge being the devices that people use [TS]

◼   ► is that what you mean yeah yeah exactly [TS]

◼   ► I mean even on in not just mobile [TS]

◼   ► devices but also sort of on computers I [TS]

◼   ► mean the big computer the big criticism [TS]

◼   ► of always have for Microsoft and even [TS]

◼   ► under saturated data is they've done a [TS]

◼   ► great job of sort of you know locking in [TS]

◼   ► the folks that they've always had but if [TS]

◼   ► you're a new company starting today [TS]

◼   ► which piece of Microsoft software are [TS]

◼   ► you going to buy and why and Microsoft [TS]

◼   ► doesn't have a very good answer for that [TS]

◼   ► question yeah that's a very good point [TS]

◼   ► I would buy none yeah you right I mean [TS]

◼   ► it you would probably buy Excel right [TS]

◼   ► yeah I have office just e5 actually use [TS]

◼   ► that for for my email in it in part [TS]

◼   ► because I vastly prefer using email on [TS]

◼   ► an offline client even if it's outlook [TS]

◼   ► as opposed to the problem Gmail is I [TS]

◼   ► have it I have an assistant so I have [TS]

◼   ► some shared mailboxes [TS]

◼   ► and it only supports shared mailboxes [TS]

◼   ► through the online interface so that's [TS]

◼   ► obviously the reason why I use obviously [TS]

◼   ► five but the uh but yeah but I mean [TS]

◼   ► beyond that I used Google Docs for a [TS]

◼   ► year for you or Google Apps I should say [TS]

◼   ► irreverence called for for the first [TS]

◼   ► several years and there's times I miss [TS]

◼   ► it times I don't yeah but but [TS]

◼   ► realistically this it's not really if it [TS]

◼   ► wasn't for my own personal I can choose [TS]

◼   ► software based my own personal foibles [TS]

◼   ► if I were an administrator sir Ector II [TS]

◼   ► was a larger company I'm sure I would be [TS]

◼   ► on on Google [TS]

◼   ► I mean I'm obviously an edge case in [TS]

◼   ► that I'd I've lived a Windows free life [TS]

◼   ► my entire life but off the top of my [TS]

◼   ► head the only Microsoft software I can [TS]

◼   ► think that I use regularly is right now [TS]

◼   ► Skype I don't think I use anything else [TS]

◼   ► I haven't had office having a Microsoft [TS]

◼   ► Office and oh my god at least 10 years [TS]

◼   ► and Lee I don't even yeah late I don't [TS]

◼   ► know if I ever even used a Mac os10 ah [TS]

◼   ► you're probably better off his forehead [TS]

◼   ► over that case but but I mean if you use [TS]

◼   ► Excel like for real [TS]

◼   ► there it which I rarely do but but the [TS]

◼   ► occasional times I do it's like there's [TS]

◼   ► numbers is not really competitive if you [TS]

◼   ► want to just display stuff like make a [TS]

◼   ► little chart numbers is actually [TS]

◼   ► arguably better and easier and certainly [TS]

◼   ► you know Excel make some really ugly [TS]

◼   ► charts but if you there are some things [TS]

◼   ► I occasionally do on on Excel that I [TS]

◼   ► mean it numbers just it's not numbers is [TS]

◼   ► what it is like it serves its role well [TS]

◼   ► it's not an excel competitor though I [TS]

◼   ► don't know I have nothing but good thing [TS]

◼   ► I haven't used Excel in a long time but [TS]

◼   ► I was never a serious spreadsheet person [TS]

◼   ► but when I've seen like serious [TS]

◼   ► spreadsheets it's it's very impressive [TS]

◼   ► piece of software yeah it's kind of like [TS]

◼   ► the I mean people have made this this [TS]

◼   ► this point before but it's very true it [TS]

◼   ► really is sort of the programming [TS]

◼   ► language for normal people yes like I [TS]

◼   ► mean if you think about it people are [TS]

◼   ► bend it to do all kinds of crazy things [TS]

◼   ► in part because it's offering sort of in [TS]

◼   ► place computation in a way that is [TS]

◼   ► accessible for for you know sort of [TS]

◼   ► normal people who don't know how to code [TS]

◼   ► it is basic out or whatever it's clever [TS]

◼   ► chewy back hey remember it's called [TS]

◼   ► vbscript v yeah whatever [TS]

◼   ► scripting languages so you can do actual [TS]

◼   ► sort of programming which again is still [TS]

◼   ► different than you know still pretty [TS]

◼   ► basic but even just using a cell you [TS]

◼   ► know equals this cell plus that cell [TS]

◼   ► divided by that's like--that's [TS]

◼   ► programming and and in that respect it's [TS]

◼   ► even more impressive when you think of [TS]

◼   ► it that in that light even back in 1991 [TS]

◼   ► when I was a freshman in college for the [TS]

◼   ► as a freshman I ended up switching to [TS]

◼   ► computer science the next year but as a [TS]

◼   ► freshman I was an engineering major and [TS]

◼   ► there was a mandatory like intro to [TS]

◼   ► programming course but not it again this [TS]

◼   ► wasn't the computer science this was you [TS]

◼   ► know and it was all bit was ridiculous [TS]

◼   ► for me I mean I was like a in like the [TS]

◼   ► Donlin on the computer programming team [TS]

◼   ► in high school it could be I was I was [TS]

◼   ► it was great for me I was the type of [TS]

◼   ► student you don't know if you were the [TS]

◼   ► same but when I got a course like that I [TS]

◼   ► didn't try to place out of it I was just [TS]

◼   ► like oh this is great I'm to do any work [TS]

◼   ► but if we ended up I think like second [TS]

◼   ► half of the thing was like an intro to [TS]

◼   ► Pascal which dates me and we were still [TS]

◼   ► learning Pascal but I think the first [TS]

◼   ► like month of the course was all spent [TS]

◼   ► in Excel it was sort of like Excel was [TS]

◼   ► the this is how you learn you know learn [TS]

◼   ► the program and I think oh that's [TS]

◼   ► interesting [TS]

◼   ► just trying to build the mindset not [TS]

◼   ► necessarily build exactly that makes a [TS]

◼   ► ton of sense yeah and in honestly going [TS]

◼   ► through life I bet more engineers do [TS]

◼   ► programming in Excel than writing source [TS]

◼   ► code I mean at least in some ways um I [TS]

◼   ► think the other thing that Excel has as [TS]

◼   ► a and all spreadsheets but the thing [TS]

◼   ► that they have that really makes them is [TS]

◼   ► so much more approachable for people who [TS]

◼   ► think they can't program but are [TS]

◼   ► actually doing you know creating your [TS]

◼   ► own custom programmatic things is it [TS]

◼   ► makes data structures completely visual [TS]

◼   ► and there's yeah so there's this entire [TS]

◼   ► layer of abstraction of creating a data [TS]

◼   ► structure that is completely removed if [TS]

◼   ► you just see it and so much data [TS]

◼   ► actually fits to conceptually in a grid [TS]

◼   ► and you don't even know it you don't [TS]

◼   ► realize that as you're setting up this [TS]

◼   ► two-dimensional and you know I know you [TS]

◼   ► can do three dimensional stuff too but [TS]

◼   ► you know even if it's just to do a [TS]

◼   ► simple little two-dimensional [TS]

◼   ► spreadsheet [TS]

◼   ► you're creating a data structure but you [TS]

◼   ► don't even you know you're not really [TS]

◼   ► thinking about it that way yeah I think [TS]

◼   ► that's exactly it and you get and you [TS]

◼   ► can visualize you know you can literally [TS]

◼   ► visualize like how the numbers are [TS]

◼   ► moving around and moving through [TS]

◼   ► equations in you know like you're you're [TS]

◼   ► debugging you don't even realize you are [TS]

◼   ► but but that's exactly what's going on [TS]

◼   ► right anyway nothing but good things to [TS]

◼   ► say about excel so what else happened at [TS]

◼   ► this keynote what are they talking about [TS]

◼   ► what's the big what are people need to [TS]

◼   ► know about where Microsoft is is wants [TS]

◼   ► people to go and build it for those who [TS]

◼   ► don't know it's their developer [TS]

◼   ► conference so it's you know it's not [TS]

◼   ► necessarily consumer focus but it's what [TS]

◼   ► they want people developers to do yeah [TS]

◼   ► well I think that's that's part of the [TS]

◼   ► point is there really wasn't anything [TS]

◼   ► for consumers in in this at all I mean [TS]

◼   ► there was they had this or Cortana [TS]

◼   ► skills kit you know which which it would [TS]

◼   ► be you know a Dallas to sort of the [TS]

◼   ► Amazon echo skills things like that they [TS]

◼   ► have a new database service for Azure [TS]

◼   ► called cosmos DB which is very [TS]

◼   ► interesting but again speaking of data [TS]

◼   ► structure is not really something that [TS]

◼   ► people you know most people would think [TS]

◼   ► about or or or care about and where as [TS]

◼   ► tomorrow all right [TS]

◼   ► which I was yet tomorrow I always try to [TS]

◼   ► speak in terms of us time but even when [TS]

◼   ► I would it's not but tonight my time [TS]

◼   ► tomorrow they will have I think more [TS]

◼   ► consumer facing stuff but again I think [TS]

◼   ► it's it's really emblematic of the shift [TS]

◼   ► in the company that that is on day two [TS]

◼   ► and to me that's that's kind of the [TS]

◼   ► biggest high-level takeaway yeah it's [TS]

◼   ► they're sort of doing on their own [TS]

◼   ► volition you know under Satya Nadella [TS]

◼   ► what some people ten years ago add or I [TS]

◼   ► guess more than 10 years ago at this [TS]

◼   ► point I had argued that should be done [TS]

◼   ► by law which is break break the windows [TS]

◼   ► division off into its own subsidiary or [TS]

◼   ► separate company or something like that [TS]

◼   ► yep you know like I think that that let [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft stay focused on the future and [TS]

◼   ► let Windows sort of ride out the you [TS]

◼   ► know the role that it has to play is [TS]

◼   ► sort of legacy infrastructure yeah I [TS]

◼   ► think that's exactly that's exactly [TS]

◼   ► right and it's I didn't think they I [TS]

◼   ► didn't think they were capable of it [TS]

◼   ► like Windows was so long you know had so [TS]

◼   ► much gravitational pole in [TS]

◼   ► the company mej extent that at one of [TS]

◼   ► these keynotes a while ago like Asher [TS]

◼   ► was renamed Windows Azure even though it [TS]

◼   ► wasn't really Windows but but yeah [TS]

◼   ► that's a great point know here one of my [TS]

◼   ► favorite sort of little details here is [TS]

◼   ► they announced theirs now you could [TS]

◼   ► access the command line in this sort of [TS]

◼   ► your Azure dashboard or whatever it is [TS]

◼   ► like through web browser or on a mobile [TS]

◼   ► app and it supports bash today and [TS]

◼   ► PowerShell is coming PowerShell is the [TS]

◼   ► command line program for Windows and to [TS]

◼   ► me that that's that really that shows it [TS]

◼   ► right which one do they support first [TS]

◼   ► they support bash because what actually [TS]

◼   ► matters for most cloud applications is [TS]

◼   ► what most developers are used to is you [TS]

◼   ► know Linux and and the linux shell and [TS]

◼   ► that's where and so that's what they're [TS]

◼   ► serving first and the Windows part is [TS]

◼   ► coming but it will come it will come [TS]

◼   ► soon yeah I think it isn't PowerShell in [TS]

◼   ► a nutshell like there was the das prompt [TS]

◼   ► and PowerShell is sort of them okay we [TS]

◼   ► want a command line terminal type thing [TS]

◼   ► but das this piece of crap so here's [TS]

◼   ► something you know modern and and at [TS]

◼   ► least maybe not modeled after UNIX [TS]

◼   ► shells but at least as powerful as UNIX [TS]

◼   ► shell yeah I mean it's it's it's a it's [TS]

◼   ► a whole thing I mean it's you know it's [TS]

◼   ► a shell and a whole Wincott us its own [TS]

◼   ► scripting language and it's not actually [TS]

◼   ► open source lis or not but it yeah it [TS]

◼   ► was released in 2006 I believe I'm just [TS]

◼   ► looking it up so I mean it's it's very [TS]

◼   ► far removed from the sort of DOS days I [TS]

◼   ► mean it's a proper shell like if it's [TS]

◼   ► used very heavily by system [TS]

◼   ► administrators and and folks that are [TS]

◼   ► managing computers and things like that [TS]

◼   ► it's used on the server so it mean it's [TS]

◼   ► a proper shell it's but it's not you [TS]

◼   ► know it's different then as as one would [TS]

◼   ► expect it's different than than bash can [TS]

◼   ► I just as an aside it's so funny because [TS]

◼   ► I didn't think we'd be talking about [TS]

◼   ► shells but I do you ever use use command [TS]

◼   ► line on Mac os10 you use it sometimes [TS]

◼   ► right yeah rarely I have a couple [TS]

◼   ► servers that did not my not destroy your [TS]

◼   ► server that's managed but um I have a [TS]

◼   ► few other servers that I do stuff on and [TS]

◼   ► I use it for that but I rarely I don't [TS]

◼   ► do much scripting on on my [TS]

◼   ► computer do you do you care what shall [TS]

◼   ► you use no I don't care at all I use it [TS]

◼   ► I use it very rarely I've I've used the [TS]

◼   ► UNIX shell since at least 1990 - that's [TS]

◼   ► when ice when I switch to computer [TS]

◼   ► science at Drexel and I've you know I [TS]

◼   ► mean I'm um I know enough to get [TS]

◼   ► whatever I need to do done but I've [TS]

◼   ► never enjoyed it never really and I [TS]

◼   ► never really liked writing shell scripts [TS]

◼   ► and so if I ever had anything that you [TS]

◼   ► most people would write a shell script [TS]

◼   ► once I found out about parole I just [TS]

◼   ► wrote everything in Perl and just [TS]

◼   ► treated Perl if I needed to as my shell [TS]

◼   ► scripting language so I never really got [TS]

◼   ► deep roots and I know I think I think [TS]

◼   ► Mac os10 used to when it first shipped [TS]

◼   ► was using tcsh as the shell or something [TS]

◼   ► I don't know and at some point it [TS]

◼   ► switched to bash because bash sort of [TS]

◼   ► become is like the most popular modern [TS]

◼   ► scripting language because Linux uses [TS]

◼   ► that I think but I never had deep roots [TS]

◼   ► like it was never like like people get [TS]

◼   ► tied up and they have like these shelves [TS]

◼   ► or files you know the what do you call [TS]

◼   ► your profile where you've got all these [TS]

◼   ► aliases and all this stuff set up so [TS]

◼   ► that you can't really switch shells very [TS]

◼   ► easily because you'd have to rewrite it [TS]

◼   ► all [TS]

◼   ► so anyway recently I switched my shell [TS]

◼   ► err on my Mac's to fish have you heard [TS]

◼   ► about this shell I've heard you chatting [TS]

◼   ► about it but it's no I it's fascinating [TS]

◼   ► and I think anybody who has deep roots [TS]

◼   ► into a UNIX shell is not going to switch [TS]

◼   ► but it's a like a new shell it's you [TS]

◼   ► know something that this guy Peter a man [TS]

◼   ► made he's a engineer at Apple this isn't [TS]

◼   ► an apple project it's something he did [TS]

◼   ► on the side but it's amazing and I thing [TS]

◼   ► I like about it is it's like completely [TS]

◼   ► logical in terms of how you do stuff and [TS]

◼   ► it doesn't have any kind of it by [TS]

◼   ► separating itself from from the history [TS]

◼   ► of UNIX shells it breaks a bunch of [TS]

◼   ► things that other UNIX shells all do but [TS]

◼   ► it like just for one thing one thing [TS]

◼   ► that's so nice is that instead of [TS]

◼   ► spewing a whole bunch of like dot files [TS]

◼   ► you know the UNIX way of making a file [TS]

◼   ► quote-unquote invisible a start the name [TS]

◼   ► of the dot which is [TS]

◼   ► so gross that we're still using that but [TS]

◼   ► they did they had these you end up with [TS]

◼   ► like six of these files in your home [TS]

◼   ► folder for each shell that you use [TS]

◼   ► because in Iran they don't have names [TS]

◼   ► that make any sense and no they drive me [TS]

◼   ► up the wall I know exactly we talk about [TS]

◼   ► right it doesn't make any sense at all [TS]

◼   ► with fish you still have it you know a [TS]

◼   ► dot file but it's it's a folder which is [TS]

◼   ► it called it's called but I'm really [TS]

◼   ► exciting tonight aren't I [TS]

◼   ► I should do this later and I love that [TS]

◼   ► it's called I think it's called like dot [TS]

◼   ► config or something like that but [TS]

◼   ► there's one it's a it makes it folder [TS]

◼   ► instead of a file and it's just one [TS]

◼   ► folder called dot config and inside [TS]

◼   ► there is is where everything else goes [TS]

◼   ► so you just there's like a folder in dot [TS]

◼   ► config that says fish and then inside [TS]

◼   ► that folder is all officious stuff so if [TS]

◼   ► other utilities use this convention [TS]

◼   ► everything could go nice and neatly into [TS]

◼   ► one folder called config anyway it's [TS]

◼   ► really neat I'll put a link in the show [TS]

◼   ► notes to fish it's really I think it's [TS]

◼   ► really neat so oh that reminds me what [TS]

◼   ► is the last time I was on um 2000 [TS]

◼   ► January 2017 looks like and we talked [TS]

◼   ► about the Mac a little bit then and I I [TS]

◼   ► do have to say I think pretty much that [TS]

◼   ► that episode holds up I think pretty [TS]

◼   ► well after the after the the news that's [TS]

◼   ► come out about the Mac Pro and things [TS]

◼   ► like that like I think our general [TS]

◼   ► presumption was that there was a screw [TS]

◼   ► up they wand update it but couldn't and [TS]

◼   ► they're not abandoning the platform and [TS]

◼   ► and it was just a screw-up and I think [TS]

◼   ► that's basically what ended up would end [TS]

◼   ► up happening so that I'm glad we uh glad [TS]

◼   ► we got that one right yeah I think so [TS]

◼   ► too [TS]

◼   ► anyway before I glued fish I'll just say [TS]

◼   ► this if you're a nerd and nerdy enough [TS]

◼   ► to use the terminal but you've somehow [TS]

◼   ► never gotten attached to bash or [TS]

◼   ► seashell or Z shell or any of those [TS]

◼   ► things you should give fish a try it's [TS]

◼   ► really easy to install [TS]

◼   ► through homebrew and I like it so much [TS]

◼   ► more than any shell I've ever tried [TS]

◼   ► because it's just somehow makes sense it [TS]

◼   ► makes sense that it comes from somebody [TS]

◼   ► who works at Apple [TS]

◼   ► it sort of makes sense in the way Apple [TS]

◼   ► software does right that's what made me [TS]

◼   ► think of it is the idea of like change [TS]

◼   ► like one even having access to a shell [TS]

◼   ► and being able to change it and all the [TS]

◼   ► things you can do through a shell like [TS]

◼   ► that's it's it's a thing you do on [TS]

◼   ► computers which is that I start remember [TS]

◼   ► why I went back to that last episode but [TS]

◼   ► yeah that's why I mean it's a great [TS]

◼   ► example yeah it does things like it has [TS]

◼   ► like if you want to change the color the [TS]

◼   ► syntax colouring for the shell like for [TS]

◼   ► which like a command is this color the [TS]

◼   ► arguments are this color the outputs [TS]

◼   ► this color in error is this color when [TS]

◼   ► you config you don't have to just type [TS]

◼   ► in a file you can do something and it [TS]

◼   ► opens a little web local web browser [TS]

◼   ► window and so you can visually pick the [TS]

◼   ► colors and see actually see the colors [TS]

◼   ► as you add to them it's oh nice amazing [TS]

◼   ► stuff it's so anyway it's really cool so [TS]

◼   ► anyway PowerShell it's is coming soon it [TS]

◼   ► and bash is already is the default and [TS]

◼   ► first available thing that support for [TS]

◼   ► this for this dashboard sort of [TS]

◼   ► interface for the other thing I saw it [TS]

◼   ► was announced was I forget what they [TS]

◼   ► call it but whatever Microsoft version [TS]

◼   ► of Xcode is what's it called virtual [TS]

◼   ► studio visual studio whatever the visual [TS]

◼   ► studio universal studio is now I know [TS]

◼   ► it's not wasn't a surprise but it's [TS]

◼   ► there's a version of it for Mac now [TS]

◼   ► which is crazy yep and they did a demo [TS]

◼   ► and it was more like oh we're doing a [TS]

◼   ► demo on a Mac it wasn't like a we're [TS]

◼   ► definitely this program but there's [TS]

◼   ► actually when they were doing the I [TS]

◼   ► think is when they're demoing the shell [TS]

◼   ► and it was on a map yeah [TS]

◼   ► and that it you know it it's of a piece [TS]

◼   ► it's the exact same you know two sides [TS]

◼   ► of the same coin with the windows [TS]

◼   ► keynote being on day two the entire idea [TS]

◼   ► that if you're developing on Windows [TS]

◼   ► server side technologies the assumption [TS]

◼   ► that you're developing with a Windows [TS]

◼   ► client and with your hands on the [TS]

◼   ► keyboard is no longer there like they're [TS]

◼   ► completely come you know committed and [TS]

◼   ► realized that but I don't know if it's a [TS]

◼   ► majority of developers but certainly an [TS]

◼   ► enormous chunk of them are using Mac's [TS]

◼   ► as their client whether they're writing [TS]

◼   ► Mac software or not even if they're just [TS]

◼   ► doing like web development or Windows [TS]

◼   ► development or something like that [TS]

◼   ► or saw anything server-side I think [TS]

◼   ► there's an enormous chunk of them who [TS]

◼   ► are using MacBooks yep [TS]

◼   ► no yep and and the platforms that [TS]

◼   ► they're developing for um you know yes [TS]

◼   ► on PC it's still meal windows still as [TS]

◼   ► it you know dominant more the dominant [TS]

◼   ► share but pcs aren't a piece species are [TS]

◼   ► the fast I mean in a very real way or in [TS]

◼   ► you know to a topic I'm sure we'll get [TS]

◼   ► to there they were never even a thing so [TS]

◼   ► and that's that's the reality that [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft has to deal with for and to in [TS]

◼   ► and I think they by and large are again [TS]

◼   ► that doesn't mean that they're out of [TS]

◼   ► the woods because they still have this [TS]

◼   ► stuff to actually reach consumers [TS]

◼   ► actually get in front of them both in [TS]

◼   ► terms both in that applies to business [TS]

◼   ► just as much as applies to to end-users [TS]

◼   ► but at least they're you know not stuck [TS]

◼   ► focused on focused on the past yeah yeah [TS]

◼   ► so now we're in unusual how things [TS]

◼   ► change situation where Microsoft is the [TS]

◼   ► company that's flexible about what what [TS]

◼   ► machines people are using to develop [TS]

◼   ► against their technologies and apples [TS]

◼   ► the company that makes you develop on a [TS]

◼   ► Mac to write for their phone OS right [TS]

◼   ► exactly exactly [TS]

◼   ► not that I blame Apple for that might [TS]

◼   ► have come out as me you know blaming [TS]

◼   ► them I to makes profiles again but uh [TS]

◼   ► it's just it's just a funny situation [TS]

◼   ► yeah I mean the apples the company with [TS]

◼   ► an operating system was such over well [TS]

◼   ► at overwhelming market share that they [TS]

◼   ► can compel developers to buy a machine [TS]

◼   ► that they otherwise wouldn't buy just to [TS]

◼   ► do development for it yeah it's it it [TS]

◼   ► it's hard to especially if you were [TS]

◼   ► following Apple I'm sure it's harder for [TS]

◼   ► you than for me I mean back in I was [TS]

◼   ► following Apple that I used when I [TS]

◼   ► wasn't using one and to really [TS]

◼   ► appreciate the extent to which they are [TS]

◼   ► not the underdog [TS]

◼   ► at all it like it's it's easy easier the [TS]

◼   ► situation to change on the ground before [TS]

◼   ► it's before changes sort of your mental [TS]

◼   ► state and I think that's a proper app [TS]

◼   ► that was an app prom for Apple [TS]

◼   ► internally to like you [TS]

◼   ► you act and behave changes when you're [TS]

◼   ► when you're dominant as opposed to when [TS]

◼   ► you're you know the sort of scrappy [TS]

◼   ► scrappy underdog yeah um yeah totally so [TS]

◼   ► what else is going on at surface or not [TS]

◼   ► surface had build you know that's a [TS]

◼   ► conference I was I was at the one time I [TS]

◼   ► was in a video yes that's right uh feels [TS]

◼   ► like a long time ago well it's it's I [TS]

◼   ► mean it's crazy I'll lightning ahead Way [TS]

◼   ► was a while ago it has to been what four [TS]

◼   ► four or five years ago three years ago I [TS]

◼   ► think I think was wrong I think so that [TS]

◼   ► was somebody's I thought I was still in [TS]

◼   ► the states when that happened but yeah I [TS]

◼   ► think it was three years ago [TS]

◼   ► but I could be wrong but long story [TS]

◼   ► short for those who don't remember this [TS]

◼   ► was when I was working with Brent [TS]

◼   ► Simmons and Dave wish because they we [TS]

◼   ► called her social q-branch we had her [TS]

◼   ► app vesper and we did the sinking our [TS]

◼   ► own sinking back-end for various reasons [TS]

◼   ► but we built it on I guess I think we [TS]

◼   ► were there right we were doing it at the [TS]

◼   ► time when they called it Windows Azure [TS]

◼   ► and they made like they made us one of [TS]

◼   ► the like examples in a little video that [TS]

◼   ► they showed on the in the keynote flew [TS]

◼   ► us out there and everything was kind of [TS]

◼   ► nice kind of weird they have yeah they [TS]

◼   ► have this uh they have a real-time [TS]

◼   ► translator for Microsoft PowerPoint [TS]

◼   ► that's kind of nifty so when you can be [TS]

◼   ► presenting and it will be show like [TS]

◼   ► real-time translation of the of the UH [TS]

◼   ► yeah so that's kind interesting but [TS]

◼   ► again I mean it's it was mostly like it [TS]

◼   ► was it was mostly all back and stuff so [TS]

◼   ► which which which is fine I think as far [TS]

◼   ► as consumer-facing stuff you know the [TS]

◼   ► one today is probably going to be more [TS]

◼   ► more interesting but then again they [TS]

◼   ► just announced the the windows s and the [TS]

◼   ► new laptop so a couple weeks ago so I [TS]

◼   ► think they're disposed there's really [TS]

◼   ► might be a Cortana speaker like a like [TS]

◼   ► an echo type device yeah at which but [TS]

◼   ► again you know I mean actually getting [TS]

◼   ► customers to get customers hands is [TS]

◼   ► gonna is going to be the challenge I [TS]

◼   ► guess the reason I was going to say I [TS]

◼   ► gave somebody who observes Apple it's [TS]

◼   ► weird because I [TS]

◼   ► I have muscle memory you know and it's [TS]

◼   ► weird to see a company that's so on [TS]

◼   ► Apple like like it's baffling to me that [TS]

◼   ► they would hold an event a week before [TS]

◼   ► their big developer conference right or [TS]

◼   ► they would talk about a new operating [TS]

◼   ► system and unveil these new products [TS]

◼   ► like why wouldn't you do that in the [TS]

◼   ► keynote but I'm guessing you know that [TS]

◼   ► the keynote this morning ran long and [TS]

◼   ► then the Windows one tomorrow they're [TS]

◼   ► their keynotes already already run long [TS]

◼   ► right I mean today was really I mean it [TS]

◼   ► was much more of yeah it was pretty [TS]

◼   ► hardcore like back-end development or [TS]

◼   ► wine a business application sort of [TS]

◼   ► stuff I mean it wasn't a really consumer [TS]

◼   ► facing thing at all it not even on the [TS]

◼   ► slightest and yeah maybe they could have [TS]

◼   ► announced the the things tomorrow but I [TS]

◼   ► think yeah there's a very queer sort of [TS]

◼   ► bifurcation and I think you've nailed it [TS]

◼   ► before what Windows is sort of its own [TS]

◼   ► thing particularly the consumer facing [TS]

◼   ► side of Windows and I think they there's [TS]

◼   ► relatively free rein to do what they can [TS]

◼   ► to you know support and earn customers [TS]

◼   ► but that doesn't necessarily really have [TS]

◼   ► much impact particularly from a [TS]

◼   ► strategic perspective on the rest of [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft which is you know really the [TS]

◼   ► future of the company and that's [TS]

◼   ► probably this is probably a good example [TS]

◼   ► of that [TS]

◼   ► it was weird I know today's build they [TS]

◼   ► move it around I think all that I think [TS]

◼   ► they often move it around but this Sears [TS]

◼   ► is in Seattle when I went two or three [TS]

◼   ► years ago three four years ago whenever [TS]

◼   ► it was it was in San Francisco in [TS]

◼   ► Moscone which only added to this sort of [TS]

◼   ► we were feeling bizarro [TS]

◼   ► like I was in a bizarro developer [TS]

◼   ► bizarro WWDC because they even had the [TS]

◼   ► keynote at third floor you know we wrap [TS]

◼   ► what Apple always calls the room [TS]

◼   ► Presidio you know that the those big [TS]

◼   ► convention spaces are sort of like [TS]

◼   ► modular you know there's walls that can [TS]

◼   ► be moved around to change the shape and [TS]

◼   ► make room slightly bigger or smaller but [TS]

◼   ► the thing that Microsoft did what and [TS]

◼   ► I've seen so many keynotes in that room [TS]

◼   ► because Macworld Expo used to have [TS]

◼   ► keynotes [TS]

◼   ► in the same room WWDC every year I guess [TS]

◼   ► those are the two things but they're [TS]

◼   ► Macworld Expo and W [TS]

◼   ► Sika notes in that room and apples [TS]

◼   ► configuration of the room is almost [TS]

◼   ► always the same it's a very if you'd [TS]

◼   ► almost think that it the room always [TS]

◼   ► looks like that but it's actually like [TS]

◼   ► an apple setup like it when WWDC has [TS]

◼   ► done all that everything in there is out [TS]

◼   ► and the thing that Microsoft did was [TS]

◼   ► they had their stage along what in [TS]

◼   ► Apple's configuration is the side like [TS]

◼   ► Apple sits the room with the stage in [TS]

◼   ► the front and the room goes back long [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft set it up said that the stage [TS]

◼   ► was wide and the room wasn't as deep and [TS]

◼   ► they site in a way that that made sense [TS]

◼   ► even though it made more people [TS]

◼   ► everybody was closer to the stage and [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft's configuration but people [TS]

◼   ► were further from the center if you [TS]

◼   ► didn't have a center seat and they made [TS]

◼   ► up for that by having huge screens that [TS]

◼   ► were just showed the same instead of [TS]

◼   ► having one big screen that shows [TS]

◼   ► something they had like a wall of [TS]

◼   ► screens that all showed the same thing [TS]

◼   ► over and over again and it just weirded [TS]

◼   ► me out it was just guess it's you know [TS]

◼   ► it's like coming home and somebody has [TS]

◼   ► moved all of the furniture like [TS]

◼   ► everything is the same except they've [TS]

◼   ► rotated every room in your house by 90 [TS]

◼   ► degrees that would be weird uh but yet [TS]

◼   ► no no no Moscone keynote again this year [TS]

◼   ► I mean right well they've been in the [TS]

◼   ► the what is it the Billy Billy Graham [TS]

◼   ► auditorium oh is that what it's called I [TS]

◼   ► uh something like that I don't think I [TS]

◼   ► mean they might never do Apple might [TS]

◼   ► never do a Moscone right I was gonna say [TS]

◼   ► yeah what might be uh which is fine he [TS]

◼   ► wasn't it wasn't the greatest I didn't [TS]

◼   ► like the I'm not a big fan of the Apple [TS]

◼   ► set up in Moscow nee I'm not either [TS]

◼   ► really I don't have anything against it [TS]

◼   ► but I thought the Microsoft setup was [TS]

◼   ► actually very nice I've it worked very [TS]

◼   ► well and I felt like everybody got to [TS]

◼   ► you couldn't really see may not be able [TS]

◼   ► to see the actual people but if you know [TS]

◼   ► I feel like if you were sitting seated [TS]

◼   ► along the side you had a much bigger [TS]

◼   ► screen in front of you than you get [TS]

◼   ► seated in the back in Moscow me an apple [TS]

◼   ► setup right exactly yeah I don't think [TS]

◼   ► Apple Apple might never have an event in [TS]

◼   ► San Francisco again you never say never [TS]

◼   ► I mean who knows but I because I feel [TS]

◼   ► like for their smaller events they're [TS]

◼   ► going to have them at their headquarters [TS]

◼   ► in the Steve Jobs theater [TS]

◼   ► right I don't think you name the theater [TS]

◼   ► Steve Jobs theater unless you intend to [TS]

◼   ► use it quite a bit to unveil new [TS]

◼   ► products right like I'm sure they're you [TS]

◼   ► know have you been to the new campus you [TS]

◼   ► know I've never I don't even know where [TS]

◼   ► it is I was asking about it when I was [TS]

◼   ► out there for the Mac Pro summit [TS]

◼   ► whatever you want to round table [TS]

◼   ► discussion it was a I guess it just [TS]

◼   ► isn't close I don't know to be I just [TS]

◼   ► worked there [TS]

◼   ► so I one of the buildings that was that [TS]

◼   ► was torn down so I definitely know where [TS]

◼   ► it is be guys it's it's it's like [TS]

◼   ► another exit on the freeway from from [TS]

◼   ► where the current campus is right and I [TS]

◼   ► did you could drive there through [TS]

◼   ► through through city roads but yeah it's [TS]

◼   ► a little bit of a hike it on the other [TS]

◼   ► side of the freeway so it just wasn't [TS]

◼   ► convenient and I didn't have a car so [TS]

◼   ► what wasn't like I was going to take an [TS]

◼   ► uber to go look at a construction site I [TS]

◼   ► mean those fly overs that people publish [TS]

◼   ► from those drones are probably better [TS]

◼   ► than what you'd get looking at the [TS]

◼   ► ground from the outside yep yeah I think [TS]

◼   ► so I mean maybe uh I mean I imagine the [TS]

◼   ► ID well I guess we'll see with the [TS]

◼   ► iPhone with the iPhone announcement but [TS]

◼   ► they did that they did that in San Jose [TS]

◼   ► also not last year but for the when they [TS]

◼   ► did the watch the watch unveiling was [TS]

◼   ► was in San Jose uh yeah where was that I [TS]

◼   ► forget where it was I don't think it was [TS]

◼   ► San Jose no it was at the the watch [TS]

◼   ► unveiling was at the the College in [TS]

◼   ► Cupertino [TS]

◼   ► oh is that was that Cupertino I I hope [TS]

◼   ► it wasn't it's like some that I forget [TS]

◼   ► the name of the college but De Anza or [TS]

◼   ► something I I forget what the hell of [TS]

◼   ► this but it was not know the one that [TS]

◼   ► was in San Jose was an iPad event like [TS]

◼   ► in 2011 I think or 2012 I don't know it [TS]

◼   ► was right before Scott Forstall got [TS]

◼   ► fired how was the how was the the Danza [TS]

◼   ► auditorium or whatever it was I was all [TS]

◼   ► right it wasn't it wasn't anything to [TS]

◼   ► write home about that was the one where [TS]

◼   ► Apple build a big mysterious white box [TS]

◼   ► out front right right right and that was [TS]

◼   ► the end ecology of the ends is that what [TS]

◼   ► it is DeAnza College [TS]

◼   ► yep um it was okay uh I'm not surprised [TS]

◼   ► that they haven't been back since I [TS]

◼   ► don't think it was great I think the one [TS]

◼   ► thing people don't seem to understand is [TS]

◼   ► that this Steve Jobs theater is not that [TS]

◼   ► big either like there's no way they [TS]

◼   ► can't have like a WWE seeking out there [TS]

◼   ► some people have speculated that you [TS]

◼   ► know maybe this year they'll secretly [TS]

◼   ► bus everybody to the new campus to have [TS]

◼   ► the keynote there or something that's [TS]

◼   ► like--that's that no you can't but it [TS]

◼   ► can't bus 5,000 people there but B it's [TS]

◼   ► not a 5,000 person auditorium I don't [TS]

◼   ► know what this evening and see that they [TS]

◼   ► don't want 5,000 people writing her on [TS]

◼   ► that campus right I don't think yeah I [TS]

◼   ► don't think they want people on their [TS]

◼   ► campus well be the old the old uh the [TS]

◼   ► old one town uh what's called God [TS]

◼   ► yeah Tony Hall that was tiny that was [TS]

◼   ► turn it was like but I said I'm sure [TS]

◼   ► yeah that makes sense though I suppose [TS]

◼   ► the I bet WABC will end up back in San [TS]

◼   ► Francisco we'll see I'll probably see [TS]

◼   ► how it goes this year and then because [TS]

◼   ► the reason it's in San Jose this year is [TS]

◼   ► because Moscone Center construction I [TS]

◼   ► don't know what I don't believe that [TS]

◼   ► I really don't what well basically all [TS]

◼   ► of the but everyone is not in Moscone by [TS]

◼   ► and large like how they have there been [TS]

◼   ► any big events there I mean I know only [TS]

◼   ► part of Muskaan's are construction but I [TS]

◼   ► don't think Apple is the only one to let [TS]

◼   ► their stuff on their schedule if you [TS]

◼   ► look it's so north and south Moscone [TS]

◼   ► north and south the big like the expo [TS]

◼   ► hall ones are closed and they're ripping [TS]

◼   ► up the street i if there's an argument [TS]

◼   ► for it it's the fact that they've got [TS]

◼   ► the street ripped up I guess that's [TS]

◼   ► Howard Street is all ripped up for the [TS]

◼   ► north and south expansion but Moscone [TS]

◼   ► West is still open and is not being [TS]

◼   ► renovated and I've you know before Apple [TS]

◼   ► made this announcement you could look on [TS]

◼   ► the schedule in their world you know [TS]

◼   ► there was like one open week in June but [TS]

◼   ► the otherwise there's stuff in Moscone [TS]

◼   ► week Moscone West all the time I could [TS]

◼   ► be wrong yeah not are you right I don't [TS]

◼   ► know I mean who cares if the streets [TS]

◼   ► ripped up I've seen people say well the [TS]

◼   ► streets all ripped up oh who gives a [TS]

◼   ► crap [TS]

◼   ► I don't know you'd say nobody's done [TS]

◼   ► like everybody's driving down Howard [TS]

◼   ► Street to get to WWDC I think if Apple [TS]

◼   ► wanted to have it at Moscone West this [TS]

◼   ► year they would have [TS]

◼   ► I think there's other reasons you know [TS]

◼   ► whether they got a better deal whether [TS]

◼   ► they really you know I I do think I [TS]

◼   ► think Apple is if you can put a [TS]

◼   ► personality on a company there are a [TS]

◼   ► homebody company they they don't that [TS]

◼   ► are not a San Francisco company I know [TS]

◼   ► they have a couple of offices there but [TS]

◼   ► you know they really are at as a company [TS]

◼   ► they're at home on their campus in [TS]

◼   ► Cupertino and I feel like they being [TS]

◼   ► closer to home is better for them yeah [TS]

◼   ► no question I mean just being in the [TS]

◼   ► valley I mean they're they're not it's [TS]

◼   ► it's own insular sort of culture like [TS]

◼   ► it's much less sort of interspersed I've [TS]

◼   ► obviously an employee level that's on [TS]

◼   ► the solicit case but especially once you [TS]

◼   ► get more into senior management I mean [TS]

◼   ► it's it's it's own world like it's in [TS]

◼   ► the same geographic area but the rest of [TS]

◼   ► the valley I think is much more [TS]

◼   ► intertwined with Google and there's much [TS]

◼   ► more of a sort of back and forth in in [TS]

◼   ► that perspective when it comes to sort [TS]

◼   ► of Big Valley companies and and you know [TS]

◼   ► in San Francisco but yeah my Apple has [TS]

◼   ► always been its own its own sort of [TS]

◼   ► universe and you see it you see that all [TS]

◼   ► over the place not just in the valley [TS]

◼   ► you see it sort of online you see it [TS]

◼   ► when it comes to Apple fans there's a [TS]

◼   ► lot of people who are Apple fans or that [TS]

◼   ► are not necessarily tech fans you know I [TS]

◼   ► actually see that when it comes to like [TS]

◼   ► readers and you see it you know in [TS]

◼   ► popular culture where yeah it's [TS]

◼   ► interesting it really is its own sort of [TS]

◼   ► its own sort of entity for better or [TS]

◼   ► worse yeah and I think at a practical [TS]

◼   ► level it's absolutely the case I mean [TS]

◼   ► there's no argument no spin it's just [TS]

◼   ► just a fact that San Jose is so much [TS]

◼   ► closer to Apple's campus or campuses and [TS]

◼   ► Cupertino that for engineers at Apple [TS]

◼   ► who have things to do that week that [TS]

◼   ► they need to be at the office they can [TS]

◼   ► swing by they might be able to do a [TS]

◼   ► couple of hours work in their office and [TS]

◼   ► then go to WWDC in the afternoon for [TS]

◼   ► labs or something like that and people [TS]

◼   ► might get you know attendees might get [TS]

◼   ► interaction with significantly more [TS]

◼   ► engineers from Apple who couldn't take [TS]

◼   ► an entire day to go up to San Francisco [TS]

◼   ► because it's night and day [TS]

◼   ► I mean San Francisco is can be over an [TS]

◼   ► hour away [TS]

◼   ► depending on traffic and San Jose it's [TS]

◼   ► you know probably like 10 15 minute [TS]

◼   ► drive yep yep exactly as you you found [TS]

◼   ► us you found a good spot for for the [TS]

◼   ► talk show yeah yeah I'm in that [TS]

◼   ► California theater where that iPad event [TS]

◼   ► was the one that was in San Jose so he's [TS]

◼   ► a lot bigger than the old place good [TS]

◼   ► place where I had my show yeah oh my god [TS]

◼   ► it's so much bigger it's guys like as I [TS]

◼   ► get 1,100 seat capacity and I thought [TS]

◼   ► that when we had it mezzanine in San [TS]

◼   ► Francisco which I love which I still if [TS]

◼   ► you know I love that facility I love [TS]

◼   ► doing a show there but I think we capped [TS]

◼   ► it at 500 I think you could mezzanine a [TS]

◼   ► attendance cap is significantly higher [TS]

◼   ► than that but 500 seems to you know and [TS]

◼   ► and judging from people's reactions over [TS]

◼   ► the years if it's it keeps it from [TS]

◼   ► getting too crowded like I don't want to [TS]

◼   ► attack the most number of people in [TS]

◼   ► there I feel bad when people like I [TS]

◼   ► think tickets sold out in like 10 [TS]

◼   ► minutes last year so I feel bad that [TS]

◼   ► people want to go can't come but I'd [TS]

◼   ► rather have everybody I draw there are [TS]

◼   ► fewer people come and more people [TS]

◼   ► excluded but have everybody be [TS]

◼   ► comfortable but I uh yeah are there [TS]

◼   ► gonna be drinks I think that's probably [TS]

◼   ► the the more pressing question there [TS]

◼   ► will be drinks and I don't know how [TS]

◼   ► that's going to work because it's a [TS]

◼   ► the--it's a real theater theater and I [TS]

◼   ► don't know yeah any pictures right now [TS]

◼   ► right I don't know how easy it'll be for [TS]

◼   ► people who are sitting in the middle of [TS]

◼   ► a road to go get drinks so I don't know [TS]

◼   ► it might have to be sort of a you know [TS]

◼   ► get your load on get your load on before [TS]

◼   ► the show starts that was the great thing [TS]

◼   ► about Bethenny's you could like every [TS]

◼   ► obviously there was the seating and if [TS]

◼   ► you're in a seat was the your [TS]

◼   ► interviewer or you know the show was [TS]

◼   ► going on you wouldn't get up and go but [TS]

◼   ► you could also just sort of be in the [TS]

◼   ► back and be you know mingling a little [TS]

◼   ► bit and getting a drink and uh so yeah [TS]

◼   ► it kind of served a you could watch you [TS]

◼   ► could watch the show in multiple in [TS]

◼   ► multiple ways okay which was nice well [TS]

◼   ► we'll see I don't know [TS]

◼   ► but 1,100 people Jesus that's going to [TS]

◼   ► be nerve-racking as a balcony and [TS]

◼   ► everything it does is it's very [TS]

◼   ► beautiful I'm looking at the looking at [TS]

◼   ► the pictures right now yeah take it [TS]

◼   ► still aren't on sale but they will be [TS]

◼   ► soon [TS]

◼   ► that's right now okay I forgot that you [TS]

◼   ► hadn't I like that maybe people give the [TS]

◼   ► Munsell with how you post what I am you [TS]

◼   ► know I'm not waiting till the last [TS]

◼   ► minute but it's just lots of little too [TS]

◼   ► it's not too much work I don't have to [TS]

◼   ► it's not like I'm sitting there hooking [TS]

◼   ► microphones up and stuff but there's a [TS]

◼   ► lot of details to be worked out yet [TS]

◼   ► anyway well hopefully hopefully I didn't [TS]

◼   ► give it give anything away no no no no [TS]

◼   ► no no that's a secret it even the venue [TS]

◼   ► is art it's right there on apple's [TS]

◼   ► website and stuff like that so i'm not [TS]

◼   ► keeping it secret anyway let's take a [TS]

◼   ► break i thank our four sponsors our good [TS]

◼   ► friends at fracture fracture is the [TS]

◼   ► photo decor company that's out to rescue [TS]

◼   ► your favorite images from the digital [TS]

◼   ► ether that's their words not mine here's [TS]

◼   ► what they do they take your photos they [TS]

◼   ► print them directly on glass right there [TS]

◼   ► on the glass on the glass not a piece of [TS]

◼   ► paper glued to glass they I don't know [TS]

◼   ► what they have they've custom [TS]

◼   ► proprietary stuff they just put glass [TS]

◼   ► into the printer the printer puts your [TS]

◼   ► photo right on the glass and then they [TS]

◼   ► mail it to you and it looks amazing it's [TS]

◼   ► got that Retina effect where it just [TS]

◼   ► looks like it doesn't look it looks [TS]

◼   ► there's just such a different effect [TS]

◼   ► than a piece of paper behind a piece of [TS]

◼   ► glass and frame and it takes all the [TS]

◼   ► pain-in-the-ass stuff out of hanging [TS]

◼   ► pictures up because this happens to me [TS]

◼   ► every time every time I used to get like [TS]

◼   ► Ikea frames or something like that you'd [TS]

◼   ► put a photo in there and then you have [TS]

◼   ► to get those little things on the back [TS]

◼   ► that take that secure the cardboard you [TS]

◼   ► flip them up and then you put the [TS]

◼   ► picture in then you put the cardboard [TS]

◼   ► back in and you flip them back down and [TS]

◼   ► inevitably the picture goes like two [TS]

◼   ► degrees off and you got to open it up [TS]

◼   ► start all over again what a pain in the [TS]

◼   ► ass with the pictures from fractured [TS]

◼   ► there's nothing like that can happen [TS]

◼   ► it's just a piece of glass so it's [TS]

◼   ► always perfectly aligned and they ship [TS]

◼   ► you everything you need to hang it on [TS]

◼   ► the wall in the box they even include [TS]

◼   ► the wall anchor just upload your digital [TS]

◼   ► photo on their website pick the size and [TS]

◼   ► just wait for it to show up in a mail [TS]

◼   ► that's it could not be easier where do [TS]

◼   ► you go to find out more fracture me.com [TS]

◼   ► slash podcast not did everyone every [TS]

◼   ► time I read it I feel like I'm making a [TS]

◼   ► mistake and that that's some kind of [TS]

◼   ► placeholder but that's really the URL [TS]

◼   ► fracture me.com slash podcast and then I [TS]

◼   ► guess they use the same URL for all [TS]

◼   ► podcasts but then at the end when you [TS]

◼   ► they'll say hey where'd you find out [TS]

◼   ► about fracture and you can say the talk [TS]

◼   ► show [TS]

◼   ► hey go buy something for Father's Day [TS]

◼   ► it's a great great gift too late for [TS]

◼   ► Mother's Day Mother's Day is like two [TS]

◼   ► days from now but fathers days coming up [TS]

◼   ► next month what an amazing gift go buy a [TS]

◼   ► fracture for your for your father your [TS]

◼   ► husband anything like that what a great [TS]

◼   ► gift [TS]

◼   ► well I fractured me is is memorable yeah [TS]

◼   ► and to your l's at euros are hard [TS]

◼   ► there's someone was making fun of there [TS]

◼   ► is a tweets and effective tech before so [TS]

◼   ► are so uncreated that they have a site [TS]

◼   ► about strategy and tactile trajectory [TS]

◼   ► and I'm like it's it's true I've no I've [TS]

◼   ► no excuse every dairy firewall as always [TS]

◼   ► I'm always like damaged I should have [TS]

◼   ► hired you to get a name you find me a [TS]

◼   ► name before I started but I know it's [TS]

◼   ► now it's too late [TS]

◼   ► it's the other thing too is is getting [TS]

◼   ► any URLs hard and the one of the things [TS]

◼   ► when I started I had no money I was I [TS]

◼   ► was in debt that you know and the idea [TS]

◼   ► like going out and spending money to get [TS]

◼   ► a a URL or whatever or Twitter handle [TS]

◼   ► stuff like one of the advantages of [TS]

◼   ► trajectory is it was available um I [TS]

◼   ► would I like I said I probably wouldn't [TS]

◼   ► use it again if I starting over because [TS]

◼   ► it's you know so hard to say hard to [TS]

◼   ► spell hahaha which is not a good not a [TS]

◼   ► good combo but but yeah it's it's hard [TS]

◼   ► you the whole URL Twitter handle thing [TS]

◼   ► is uh it's tough you know I remember [TS]

◼   ► fracture me especially now after you [TS]

◼   ► sort of made that that that little joke [TS]

◼   ► you know that I have during fireball [TS]

◼   ► calm right yeah but it redirects to done [TS]

◼   ► it right and some people don't ask about [TS]

◼   ► that anymore in the early years people [TS]

◼   ► would be like why why do you why do you [TS]

◼   ► redirect to.net why don't you know [TS]

◼   ► wouldn't would most people if I have [TS]

◼   ► both redirected calm and I think it's [TS]

◼   ► like to me it's like I started using the [TS]

◼   ► internet so early when most domains [TS]

◼   ► weren't comms you know like dot orgs and [TS]

◼   ► dot ed use bed use were probably the [TS]

◼   ► most popular that I used uh and net to [TS]

◼   ► but to me.com was sort of crass in the [TS]

◼   ► early years and I know that in the you [TS]

◼   ► know after the document even called the [TS]

◼   ► bubble the calm bubble like [TS]

◼   ► sort of became the the neutral one right [TS]

◼   ► it's like ground zero of all the [TS]

◼   ► top-level domains like by default you [TS]

◼   ► wanna calm but like when I was I'm in my [TS]

◼   ► mind it still is sort of crass I don't [TS]

◼   ► know [TS]

◼   ► again the early years all the dot-com [TS]

◼   ► sites were garbage right with it was [TS]

◼   ► supposed to be like commercial right I [TS]

◼   ► think it was dancefloor then try I like [TS]

◼   ► I liked I agree I like dotnet better but [TS]

◼   ► yes I give in to the to the prevailing I [TS]

◼   ► own trajectory got net also but it [TS]

◼   ► redirects in the opposite direction [TS]

◼   ► right and like Kottke I think a lot of [TS]

◼   ► really early types you know like me I [TS]

◼   ► was it like hockey org yeah and I just [TS]

◼   ► it wouldn't work like neither it somehow [TS]

◼   ► is part of the domain like cocky net [TS]

◼   ► wouldn't be right cocky calm would be [TS]

◼   ► awful like it just it wouldn't be the [TS]

◼   ► same like Kottke org is exactly right [TS]

◼   ► and for whatever reason in my mind it's [TS]

◼   ► just like when you rewrite a sentence [TS]

◼   ► and just use the same words but you put [TS]

◼   ► a clause in the middle of the sentence [TS]

◼   ► as opposed to at the end or something [TS]

◼   ► like that and one way reads great in one [TS]

◼   ► way it doesn't to me daring firebolt net [TS]

◼   ► reads better than daring fireball calm I [TS]

◼   ► relayed the great thing [TS]

◼   ► Mozart go ahead go ahead man oh no I [TS]

◼   ► just I just gonna say there's a great [TS]

◼   ► thing about daring fireball is it's so [TS]

◼   ► distinct that you can one if you type [TS]

◼   ► these if you type in URL and then the [TS]

◼   ► thing is that no one actually types you [TS]

◼   ► know us us nerds do but the best or [TS]

◼   ► people don't even you know type URLs [TS]

◼   ► like the google has the whole you know [TS]

◼   ► uh like a huge number back in the day [TS]

◼   ► like they they could track how popular [TS]

◼   ► Facebook was because my people you know [TS]

◼   ► typing Facebook into Google to go to [TS]

◼   ► Facebook know what's more people doesn't [TS]

◼   ► really rusher but that's great about [TS]

◼   ► during fireball even if you do your L or [TS]

◼   ► you do a Google search whatever it's [TS]

◼   ► going to its memorable and it's going to [TS]

◼   ► come up right away [TS]

◼   ► wasn't there a thing where oh off the [TS]

◼   ► top of my head I'm not remembering it [TS]

◼   ► right but there was a thing where the [TS]

◼   ► number one result for facebook login was [TS]

◼   ► no longer the facebook login page and [TS]

◼   ► the poor bugger who had it was just some [TS]

◼   ► guy site or something and they the guy [TS]

◼   ► was just inundated with thousands of [TS]

◼   ► people saying how to [TS]

◼   ► what have you done to Facebook this [TS]

◼   ► doesn't look like Facebook do you [TS]

◼   ► remember that I I don't but that would [TS]

◼   ► be brutal [TS]

◼   ► right it's pretty because that's how [TS]

◼   ► people get to the facebook login sign [TS]

◼   ► they go to Google and then type facebook [TS]

◼   ► login hit return I'll expect expect to [TS]

◼   ► be taken there funny stuff that's what [TS]

◼   ► my son gets around the internet he just [TS]

◼   ► type stuff into Google yeah that's [TS]

◼   ► that's pretty normal [TS]

◼   ► baby that's pretty normal behavior I [TS]

◼   ► mean if people you know to the extent [TS]

◼   ► people are still using the Internet I [TS]

◼   ► mean it's uh it it really shows the [TS]

◼   ► extent to which Google is the sort of [TS]

◼   ► linchpin for the Internet I mean yes you [TS]

◼   ► can type your Elle's go to places but [TS]

◼   ► the reality is in the way that people [TS]

◼   ► actually experience online is is the [TS]

◼   ► rule it's not just about like typing [TS]

◼   ► Facebook into Google search page but [TS]

◼   ► there's just so much stuff there's [TS]

◼   ► there's so many things that it's [TS]

◼   ► incomprehensible to to anyone even the [TS]

◼   ► smartest person person on earth I mean [TS]

◼   ► and Google what make schools so [TS]

◼   ► brilliant is such a brilliant sort of [TS]

◼   ► invention is that you know the old [TS]

◼   ► search engines the more stuff there was [TS]

◼   ► the more they bogged down because they [TS]

◼   ► were you know I mean the original Yahoo [TS]

◼   ► was literally a directory I mean [TS]

◼   ► obviously the future search engines [TS]

◼   ► weren't you were much more sophisticated [TS]

◼   ► but Google by sort of building on top of [TS]

◼   ► the link instead of building on top of [TS]

◼   ► the pages themselves it well it turned [TS]

◼   ► out when you got more links Google got [TS]

◼   ► smarter and understood it better and [TS]

◼   ► well when the web got larger everyone [TS]

◼   ► else got worse except for Google which [TS]

◼   ► actually got even better and and and [TS]

◼   ► that's you know that's sort of the core [TS]

◼   ► piece of the company's dominance and and [TS]

◼   ► why they're the you know the winch pin [TS]

◼   ► for for the entire Internet which brings [TS]

◼   ► us to Windows 10 s and the way that on [TS]

◼   ► Windows 10s you can't change your [TS]

◼   ► default search engine you get Bing and [TS]

◼   ► you like it [TS]

◼   ► yeah and I think that's I I believe [TS]

◼   ► they're giving away tennis to yes I am [TS]

◼   ► so that's that's at the primary way that [TS]

◼   ► they're going to I mean obviously [TS]

◼   ► there's app sells as well but app cells [TS]

◼   ► and and Bing searches and stuff like [TS]

◼   ► that I think Bing is actually profitable [TS]

◼   ► now or or very close to it it has been [TS]

◼   ► for a little bit actually it should be [TS]

◼   ► don't you think I mean it doesn't make [TS]

◼   ► sense that they would keep they'd keep [TS]

◼   ► losing money on it because I mean now [TS]

◼   ► I'm still you know how much could it [TS]

◼   ► cost other than labor you know yeah like [TS]

◼   ► yeah it's where those things where it [TS]

◼   ► it's not like a Winnie er sort of thing [TS]

◼   ► where they make a little more money a [TS]

◼   ► little more money and that now they're [TS]

◼   ► profitable they're going like it's like [TS]

◼   ► you're either losing a lot or you're [TS]

◼   ► making a good amount like once you get [TS]

◼   ► the sort of scale effects that are [TS]

◼   ► they're kicking in uh yeah it but it's [TS]

◼   ► still it's not actually growing pretty [TS]

◼   ► decently I should I think five five [TS]

◼   ► point three billion in revenue the last [TS]

◼   ► fiscal year I should try it again I [TS]

◼   ► haven't tried Bing in a while I done [TS]

◼   ► different max are different devices at [TS]

◼   ► any given time I sometimes switch to [TS]

◼   ► DuckDuckGo which I admire is the plucky [TS]

◼   ► little startup you know and their local [TS]

◼   ► to Philly to its which it gives me a [TS]

◼   ► little affection for them but I have to [TS]

◼   ► admit that there there's a lot of times [TS]

◼   ► with DuckDuckGo where it's semi-free [TS]

◼   ► yeah if you're going to do it you at [TS]

◼   ► some point in a week you're going to be [TS]

◼   ► typing to look there's a trick they have [TS]

◼   ► you can even type like GE exclamation [TS]

◼   ► mark and it redoes the same query but [TS]

◼   ► redirects you to Google because there's [TS]

◼   ► just sometimes it's you know it's it's [TS]

◼   ► not as good as Google search I mean they [TS]

◼   ► do some really cool stuff and I like the [TS]

◼   ► privacy aspect of it but it sounds good [TS]

◼   ► but the thing that surprises me is I I [TS]

◼   ► thought Microsoft might catch up to [TS]

◼   ► Google search with Bing cuz it seems [TS]

◼   ► like the sort of problem that Microsoft [TS]

◼   ► would be able to solve like it never [TS]

◼   ► surprises me that Microsoft software [TS]

◼   ► never has is nice of a UI as Apple [TS]

◼   ► software because it's institutionally [TS]

◼   ► they're just they just don't have the [TS]

◼   ► people who have the taste for that but [TS]

◼   ► web search is really just you don't have [TS]

◼   ► to have taste for that you know it's [TS]

◼   ► it's a purely algorithmic challenge to [TS]

◼   ► get that right well they're not quite [TS]

◼   ► you need data I mean the [TS]

◼   ► the thing with Google is it is a the [TS]

◼   ► algorithm itself is far bit far beyond a [TS]

◼   ► any one person could you know it was [TS]

◼   ► designed by a person to start at this [TS]

◼   ► point it's so complex and have loaded [TS]

◼   ► and a lot of it is is just constant [TS]

◼   ► iterative feedback so when people are [TS]

◼   ► doing searches it not in that I'm not [TS]

◼   ► about the individual I search is just as [TS]

◼   ► a whole like which results are they [TS]

◼   ► quick like Google wants the first the [TS]

◼   ► proper results we the first result so [TS]

◼   ► they are tracking which result you [TS]

◼   ► actually click on where how far down you [TS]

◼   ► go and and plus websites are optimizing [TS]

◼   ► cells for Google and they and so by [TS]

◼   ► crafty has to you know would attach on [TS]

◼   ► to that but it's one of those situations [TS]

◼   ► where thanks to the feedback loop that [TS]

◼   ► comes from having the most data and the [TS]

◼   ► most users and the most searches if two [TS]

◼   ► identical search engines if one starts [TS]

◼   ► at fifty one percent market share and [TS]

◼   ► one starts at forty nine percent market [TS]

◼   ► share [TS]

◼   ► absent sort of any exterior force the [TS]

◼   ► one with market share is going to get [TS]

◼   ► better over time relative to the other [TS]

◼   ► one it which means which and then when [TS]

◼   ► it gets better that lets it get more [TS]

◼   ► users because it's a better search [TS]

◼   ► engine and then it gets even more data [TS]

◼   ► relative to the competition so it even [TS]

◼   ► has a bigger advantage so the reality is [TS]

◼   ► is even Microsoft could have the [TS]

◼   ► smartest sort of search folks in the [TS]

◼   ► world but because it's a problem that's [TS]

◼   ► not just about algorithm design it's [TS]

◼   ► it's about the entire sort of system and [TS]

◼   ► having it a feedback loop they will it's [TS]

◼   ► very difficult to to ever catch up [TS]

◼   ► absent some sort of like incredible you [TS]

◼   ► know breakthrough you can't buy your way [TS]

◼   ► out and all there's no way to write that [TS]

◼   ► it doesn't get you there that's [TS]

◼   ► interesting I think your that to me has [TS]

◼   ► to be the explanation because I just [TS]

◼   ► don't think that I don't think the [TS]

◼   ► problem is that Microsoft doesn't have [TS]

◼   ► the intelligence in the engineering to [TS]

◼   ► do it I you know and they obviously will [TS]

◼   ► had no problem spending money on it you [TS]

◼   ► know for years famously they were losing [TS]

◼   ► billions on bing I think that's just it [TS]

◼   ► though that Google so popular that it it [TS]

◼   ► you know that their popularity feeds [TS]

◼   ► upon their accuracy right if there are [TS]

◼   ► seeds upon their popularity and this is [TS]

◼   ► where Google is in some respects it's [TS]

◼   ► like a Facebook effect but it's like [TS]

◼   ► there there is [TS]

◼   ► sort of network effect but it's not [TS]

◼   ► necessary about people per se it's the [TS]

◼   ► interaction between people and the sort [TS]

◼   ► of data they generate but you get the [TS]

◼   ► same sort of idea where the larger [TS]

◼   ► service like because did I think I [TS]

◼   ► always write a lot of about user [TS]

◼   ► experience and the point I always have [TS]

◼   ► to sometimes forget to make this and [TS]

◼   ► when I forget to make this point I was [TS]

◼   ► regretted because I get a bunch people [TS]

◼   ► ask me you know pointing asking [TS]

◼   ► questions user experience does not mean [TS]

◼   ► user interface user interface is an [TS]

◼   ► important part of the user experience [TS]

◼   ► and is critical you know for something [TS]

◼   ► like a phone for example that's in your [TS]

◼   ► hand you're interacting with and [TS]

◼   ► actually you know we talked about you [TS]

◼   ► know we can stuff in Congress in a [TS]

◼   ► little bit but the user experience is [TS]

◼   ► the totality of the experience which [TS]

◼   ► means you know having better search [TS]

◼   ► results means it's a better experience [TS]

◼   ► having more friends on Facebook more [TS]

◼   ► family on Facebook not having to try to [TS]

◼   ► recruit people to get on there means [TS]

◼   ► it's a better it's a better experience [TS]

◼   ► that has nothing to do with the [TS]

◼   ► interface per se and these aspects of [TS]

◼   ► the experience are they build on [TS]

◼   ► themselves and this is why you have [TS]

◼   ► these companies that are so dominant and [TS]

◼   ► what makes it so tricky and I've been [TS]

◼   ► writing a lot about this you know over [TS]

◼   ► the last years so these companies are so [TS]

◼   ► powerful because of these sort of data [TS]

◼   ► effects and these network effects and [TS]

◼   ► they're powerful in a way that's [TS]

◼   ► actually better for the consumer like [TS]

◼   ► google is popular because it's better [TS]

◼   ► which means it gets more users and when [TS]

◼   ► it gets more users it actually becomes [TS]

◼   ► even even better which means it's it's [TS]

◼   ► so there is it's positive on the user [TS]

◼   ► perspective and same a Facebook it has [TS]

◼   ► the most user so it more people join it [TS]

◼   ► because it's there and the more people [TS]

◼   ► join it now it has more users and you [TS]

◼   ► get the same sort of feedback loop where [TS]

◼   ► people choose it because it's better and [TS]

◼   ► that sort of makes from a anti-trust [TS]

◼   ► perspective that makes sort of US [TS]

◼   ► antitrust like fall completely apart [TS]

◼   ► because it's based on consumer benefit [TS]

◼   ► and there's actually they're providing a [TS]

◼   ► ton of consumer benefit that's why [TS]

◼   ► they're winning right [TS]

◼   ► all right as a summary of like 15 [TS]

◼   ► scenarios I've been writing about did [TS]

◼   ► you see the story that in the verge had [TS]

◼   ► it that the surface laptop now the most [TS]

◼   ► like unique thing about these surface [TS]

◼   ► laptops that they announced is that the [TS]

◼   ► other than the keyboard and a trackpad [TS]

◼   ► that what you touch on the front face is [TS]

◼   ► like a like a soft touch leather like [TS]

◼   ► fake leather type thing but it's like [TS]

◼   ► it's called which looks awful to me but [TS]

◼   ► how Cantara [TS]

◼   ► apparently a lot of carmakers use it [TS]

◼   ► high-end car makers well I don't want to [TS]

◼   ► judge it on photos but from the photos [TS]

◼   ► to me it looks terrible I would not want [TS]

◼   ► that I wouldn't if I had the choice when [TS]

◼   ► buying a laptop whether I just have the [TS]

◼   ► bare aluminum surface or like no pun [TS]

◼   ► intended surface or have it covered with [TS]

◼   ► this stuff if without having seen it in [TS]

◼   ► person I would zero hesitation I would [TS]

◼   ► just say just give me the aluminum this [TS]

◼   ► seems like a disaster yeah but I saw [TS]

◼   ► people excoriating Microsoft for having [TS]

◼   ► said told the verge that you need to [TS]

◼   ► treat it like a like a luxury purse or [TS]

◼   ► something like that or a luxury handbag [TS]

◼   ► and I think people took that as meaning [TS]

◼   ► that it's like dainty and that it's [TS]

◼   ► you're like you have to treat it [TS]

◼   ► preciously I think that's how people [TS]

◼   ► reacted to this like the headline I [TS]

◼   ► think Microsoft says the fabric on the [TS]

◼   ► surface laptop should be cared for like [TS]

◼   ► a luxury handbag and I think the verge [TS]

◼   ► did a disservice with that headline [TS]

◼   ► because it's not really that's that [TS]

◼   ► that's not a quote the only quote in [TS]

◼   ► that headline is the word luxury here's [TS]

◼   ► the actual statement from Microsoft I [TS]

◼   ► hate this use of the word luxury just [TS]

◼   ► like anything luxury that you buy like [TS]

◼   ► that it should be luxurious or something [TS]

◼   ► or any luxury product that you buy but [TS]

◼   ► it still it seems self-serving for them [TS]

◼   ► to describe it as luxury but anyway just [TS]

◼   ► like anything luxury that you buy like [TS]

◼   ► great handbags or a pair of shoes or [TS]

◼   ► even expensive cars there is a care [TS]

◼   ► that's needed for the device the so I [TS]

◼   ► you know I think Note has to be some [TS]

◼   ► care for but I think the thing that [TS]

◼   ► people aren't maybe maybe now you and I [TS]

◼   ► understand it with with our spouses but [TS]

◼   ► you can get like there are handbags that [TS]

◼   ► that are might be you know from a luxury [TS]

◼   ► brand and they're not really dainty [TS]

◼   ► they're actually the opposite they're [TS]

◼   ► actually very they're they're built to [TS]

◼   ► last for decades you know and yep and [TS]

◼   ► you know you do have to treat leather [TS]

◼   ► and if you get it wet you have to take [TS]

◼   ► care of it right away and stuff like [TS]

◼   ► that but they actually hold up [TS]

◼   ► surprisingly well they're not dainty [TS]

◼   ► little Faberge eggs that are actually [TS]

◼   ► much more rugged in some ways than than [TS]

◼   ► typical lower-cost bags so that [TS]

◼   ► sometimes you like as long as you buy a [TS]

◼   ► nice bag or some nice pair of shoes that [TS]

◼   ► are luxury but you buy them because they [TS]

◼   ► last way longer and hold up much better [TS]

◼   ► and age much more attractively than [TS]

◼   ► something that's that's lower costs [TS]

◼   ► right a difference it was a weird [TS]

◼   ► Twitter account I was into for a while [TS]

◼   ► was it was one of those ones that was [TS]

◼   ► interesting only when it was anonymous [TS]

◼   ► and then when somebody figured out who [TS]

◼   ► the guy was there's no fun anymore [TS]

◼   ► GS elevator remember that it was oh yeah [TS]

◼   ► yeah it was so so put it was written [TS]

◼   ► from the perspective of stuff overheard [TS]

◼   ► in the elevators at Goldman Sachs and it [TS]

◼   ► was often hilarious often very very rude [TS]

◼   ► sort of from the that very lewd that bro [TS]

◼   ► a alpha male banker mentality um but I [TS]

◼   ► remember the guy who wrote it had liked [TS]

◼   ► it was like a he also had like articles [TS]

◼   ► I was just like alright so you got a job [TS]

◼   ► and an investment bank here's what did [TS]

◼   ► you know your kid out of college here's [TS]

◼   ► what here's the clothes that you need to [TS]

◼   ► buy and one of his things was that you [TS]

◼   ► should get like I forget I forget if you [TS]

◼   ► recommended Gucci or what but you know [TS]

◼   ► something like get like a nice pair of [TS]

◼   ► Gucci shoes yes there's $800 or $700 but [TS]

◼   ► they will last you way longer than 10 [TS]

◼   ► pairs of $200 shoes if you take care of [TS]

◼   ► right yep you know there's obviously [TS]

◼   ► some things that are luxury priced that [TS]

◼   ► are not you know that you're just you [TS]

◼   ► know like a sports car like if you buy a [TS]

◼   ► Lamborghini you're just pissing money [TS]

◼   ► it's not really it you're not really [TS]

◼   ► buying it for the value of I mean the [TS]

◼   ► car is valuable but it's not like you're [TS]

◼   ► not going to sink tens of thousands of [TS]

◼   ► dollars in it maintenance as you go like [TS]

◼   ► nobody buys a Lamborghini because it's [TS]

◼   ► worth it's a good investment reliability [TS]

◼   ► wise compared to a Honda right yep we're [TS]

◼   ► but there are some things like a nice [TS]

◼   ► shoe or a nice belt or something like [TS]

◼   ► that where you actually yes you're [TS]

◼   ► paying a lot of money but it's actually [TS]

◼   ► might be you might be paying five times [TS]

◼   ► more than what you're used to but you're [TS]

◼   ► actually getting like ten times better [TS]

◼   ► product I don't think that the surface [TS]

◼   ► laptop is like that though I don't know [TS]

◼   ► yeah yeah I went to that's not I went to [TS]

◼   ► use that word choice and yeah that now [TS]

◼   ► that I'm looking at that just like [TS]

◼   ► anything luxury that's driving me up the [TS]

◼   ► wall that's that's terrible they have to [TS]

◼   ► they have to have tested this I know [TS]

◼   ► it's like last week on the showed Renee [TS]

◼   ► and I were joking about that the iPad [TS]

◼   ► our iPod that Kate I think was like an [TS]

◼   ► iPod Nano that was super easily [TS]

◼   ► scratched do you remember that was the [TS]

◼   ► original the original nano yeah it was I [TS]

◼   ► almost in a you know I would love is one [TS]

◼   ► of those like behind the scenes things I [TS]

◼   ► would love to someday get that story out [TS]

◼   ► of Apple as to how in the hell did they [TS]

◼   ► make tens of thousands of these things [TS]

◼   ► or a half a million of these things out [TS]

◼   ► of a plastic that you scratch with your [TS]

◼   ► fingernail like what the hell are they [TS]

◼   ► thinking how did that not get caught in [TS]

◼   ► testing I don't mean if you saw one like [TS]

◼   ► they and with in not long I mean they [TS]

◼   ► would be just completely destroyed like [TS]

◼   ► to the point where you could barely even [TS]

◼   ► read the screen we in the whole it was [TS]

◼   ► the whole front not just the screen like [TS]

◼   ► the entire surface would be right would [TS]

◼   ► be just completely yeah all shredded up [TS]

◼   ► yeah it's hard to remember compared to I [TS]

◼   ► phones where everything is so much [TS]

◼   ► closer to the surface now but with the [TS]

◼   ► iPods even with the Nano there was sort [TS]

◼   ► of a thick layer of screen or not even [TS]

◼   ► screen but just plastic on the whole [TS]

◼   ► front of all these models or a bunch of [TS]

◼   ► them I remember we got demand when I was [TS]

◼   ► working at Giant I forget we hit some [TS]

◼   ► kind of milestone or something and so [TS]

◼   ► everybody in the company got one as a [TS]

◼   ► gift [TS]

◼   ► and in our company like Chad I forget we [TS]

◼   ► even used for chat it wasn't slack [TS]

◼   ► obviously wasn't around but the [TS]

◼   ► equivalent of slacks IRC I wasn't IRC [TS]

◼   ► that I forget what we were using but uh [TS]

◼   ► hip hip hip tin and that was a long [TS]

◼   ► title - yeah I don't remember uh I don't [TS]

◼   ► know why I'm trying to bank on it but we [TS]

◼   ► had like a company-wide chat who [TS]

◼   ► everybody got these in we're like [TS]

◼   ► everybody was you know having fun with [TS]

◼   ► their new iPod in and it took like an [TS]

◼   ► hour for people to be like holy shit [TS]

◼   ► it's mines all scratched up yep anyway [TS]

◼   ► it doesn't five man has already been 12 [TS]

◼   ► years I can't help but think that [TS]

◼   ► Microsoft had to have like stress tested [TS]

◼   ► these things with actual sweaty palms in [TS]

◼   ► you know warm you know use it you know [TS]

◼   ► use this for a while with you know maybe [TS]

◼   ► have us in a warm room with somebody who [TS]

◼   ► sweats through their palms or something [TS]

◼   ► right these things can't just pick up [TS]

◼   ► ugly palm sweat stains yeah I mean I'm [TS]

◼   ► not that's right I want to admit to this [TS]

◼   ► but my even my MacBook is always the [TS]

◼   ► keyboard and that all ends up just [TS]

◼   ► totally filthy it's pretty disgusting [TS]

◼   ► actually I should probably clean it yeah [TS]

◼   ► you probably should that's Crispin I [TS]

◼   ► don't know I I just doesn't see my the [TS]

◼   ► more I think about it this just doesn't [TS]

◼   ► seem like a good idea I don't know it [TS]

◼   ► just seems it too many laptops get too [TS]

◼   ► grungy as is as as as easy to clean a [TS]

◼   ► surface as aluminum is I mean it's [TS]

◼   ► pretty hard to think of something that's [TS]

◼   ► easier to clean than that it everyone [TS]

◼   ► just wants everyone just wants them to [TS]

◼   ► make a nice laptop that's all they want [TS]

◼   ► just a regular they like but so they did [TS]

◼   ► the surface book thing over they did the [TS]

◼   ► surface and the surface book thing and [TS]

◼   ► now there's a laptop but yeah it has it [TS]

◼   ► has did but I mean there's I know [TS]

◼   ► there's lots of politics and competing [TS]

◼   ► with the OEMs all sort of stuff but but [TS]

◼   ► yeah I'd rather get it I'd rather get a [TS]

◼   ► think pad with the nub anyway I know I [TS]

◼   ► know I mean I think it's it's so [TS]

◼   ► different [TS]

◼   ► I don't know didn't they used in the old [TS]

◼   ► days it was like the nub was the only [TS]

◼   ► thing right they didn't even have a [TS]

◼   ► trackpad yep it used to be just just to [TS]

◼   ► Justin up but not yeah they are both now [TS]

◼   ► that's almost like an apple like [TS]

◼   ► devotion like apples devotion to the [TS]

◼   ► single button Mouse [TS]

◼   ► you know in the world where everybody [TS]

◼   ► went the other way the old IBM ThinkPads [TS]

◼   ► devotion to the little red nub yeah well [TS]

◼   ► I mean if you there's a lot of people [TS]

◼   ► that I mean not like as relatively [TS]

◼   ► speaking out a ton but there are you [TS]

◼   ► know people like it I mean once you is [TS]

◼   ► if you're used to it it's one of those [TS]

◼   ► things where if you really like it like [TS]

◼   ► why would you you're gonna just keep I [TS]

◼   ► think that you drive even think about it [TS]

◼   ► and I think part of the problem too is [TS]

◼   ► this you know touchpads have always been [TS]

◼   ► so terrible on Windows right that [TS]

◼   ► showdown that was the big reason yeah [TS]

◼   ► those are the big reasons that I when I [TS]

◼   ► rise using OS that Microsoft I used to [TS]

◼   ► think pad and that was the biggest [TS]

◼   ► reason I started using it up in the [TS]

◼   ► first place that the trackpad was [TS]

◼   ► atrocious but then you know you use it [TS]

◼   ► and you actually grow to really really [TS]

◼   ► like it I mean the the not having to uh [TS]

◼   ► like it I mean the the not having to uh [TS]

◼   ► um I mean you're absolutely used to it [TS]

◼   ► moving you move your hand much on on a [TS]

◼   ► um on a computer but on a MacBook but [TS]

◼   ► just having right there what you're used [TS]

◼   ► to it's it's nice yeah it's great it's [TS]

◼   ► given them an actual like [TS]

◼   ► differentiation it's it in a world you [TS]

◼   ► know like the big problem that PC OEMs [TS]

◼   ► have is that what what's to keep you [TS]

◼   ► know let's say you sell somebody an HP [TS]

◼   ► laptop once they keep them from buying a [TS]

◼   ► different brand the next time they buy [TS]

◼   ► one nothing really [TS]

◼   ► it's yep and the little red nubbin is [TS]

◼   ► actually a little bit of a [TS]

◼   ► differentiator if they have the the [TS]