190: ‘Anything Luxury’, With Special Guest Ben Thompson
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lots to talk about what do you want to
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start with you wanna start with this
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Microsoft build keynote yeah it was it
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was interesting as you watch it now I
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didn't watch it I was going to whoever
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uh yeah sorry I failed to value out
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there uh it was it was good uh it was
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funny I really liked it the as I was
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listening to it he like there was a very
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much a sort of coherent vision you know
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that took the idea of you know Microsoft
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but you know by necessity has to kind of
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you know weep over the the mobile sort
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of area and to extent they certainly
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have in the cloud but kind of painting a
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vision beyond that and kind of from a
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big picture what I liked best is that at
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previous builds there's always two
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keynotes yeah and the first day is
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usually sort of the windows keynote and
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the second day is the azure keynote and
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this year it's the opposite as er is the
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first day in Windows the second day and
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I think that's appropriate because
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that's realistically where Microsoft's
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growth and opportunities are so so from
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that perspective I you know I enjoyed it
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I think the the problem though is all
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that stuff on the edge Mike I'll talk
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about building a sort of thing from the
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from the quality of the edge like they
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don't have very many edge end points and
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that continues to be a problem hmm
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edge being the devices that people use
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is that what you mean yeah yeah exactly
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I mean even on in not just mobile
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devices but also sort of on computers I
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mean the big computer the big criticism
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of always have for Microsoft and even
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under saturated data is they've done a
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great job of sort of you know locking in
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the folks that they've always had but if
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you're a new company starting today
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which piece of Microsoft software are
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you going to buy and why and Microsoft
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doesn't have a very good answer for that
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question yeah that's a very good point
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I would buy none yeah you right I mean
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it you would probably buy Excel right
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yeah I have office just e5 actually use
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that for for my email in it in part
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because I vastly prefer using email on
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an offline client even if it's outlook
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as opposed to the problem Gmail is I
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have it I have an assistant so I have
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some shared mailboxes
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and it only supports shared mailboxes
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through the online interface so that's
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obviously the reason why I use obviously
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five but the uh but yeah but I mean
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beyond that I used Google Docs for a
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year for you or Google Apps I should say
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irreverence called for for the first
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several years and there's times I miss
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it times I don't yeah but but
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realistically this it's not really if it
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wasn't for my own personal I can choose
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software based my own personal foibles
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if I were an administrator sir Ector II
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was a larger company I'm sure I would be
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on on Google
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I mean I'm obviously an edge case in
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that I'd I've lived a Windows free life
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my entire life but off the top of my
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head the only Microsoft software I can
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think that I use regularly is right now
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Skype I don't think I use anything else
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I haven't had office having a Microsoft
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Office and oh my god at least 10 years
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and Lee I don't even yeah late I don't
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know if I ever even used a Mac os10 ah
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you're probably better off his forehead
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over that case but but I mean if you use
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Excel like for real
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there it which I rarely do but but the
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occasional times I do it's like there's
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numbers is not really competitive if you
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want to just display stuff like make a
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little chart numbers is actually
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arguably better and easier and certainly
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you know Excel make some really ugly
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charts but if you there are some things
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I occasionally do on on Excel that I
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mean it numbers just it's not numbers is
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what it is like it serves its role well
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it's not an excel competitor though I
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don't know I have nothing but good thing
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I haven't used Excel in a long time but
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I was never a serious spreadsheet person
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but when I've seen like serious
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spreadsheets it's it's very impressive
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piece of software yeah it's kind of like
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the I mean people have made this this
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this point before but it's very true it
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really is sort of the programming
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language for normal people yes like I
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mean if you think about it people are
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bend it to do all kinds of crazy things
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in part because it's offering sort of in
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place computation in a way that is
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accessible for for you know sort of
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normal people who don't know how to code
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it is basic out or whatever it's clever
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chewy back hey remember it's called
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vbscript v yeah whatever
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scripting languages so you can do actual
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sort of programming which again is still
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different than you know still pretty
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basic but even just using a cell you
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know equals this cell plus that cell
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divided by that's like--that's
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programming and and in that respect it's
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even more impressive when you think of
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it that in that light even back in 1991
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when I was a freshman in college for the
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as a freshman I ended up switching to
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computer science the next year but as a
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freshman I was an engineering major and
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there was a mandatory like intro to
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programming course but not it again this
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wasn't the computer science this was you
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know and it was all bit was ridiculous
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for me I mean I was like a in like the
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Donlin on the computer programming team
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in high school it could be I was I was
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it was great for me I was the type of
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student you don't know if you were the
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same but when I got a course like that I
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didn't try to place out of it I was just
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like oh this is great I'm to do any work
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but if we ended up I think like second
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half of the thing was like an intro to
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Pascal which dates me and we were still
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learning Pascal but I think the first
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like month of the course was all spent
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in Excel it was sort of like Excel was
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the this is how you learn you know learn
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the program and I think oh that's
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interesting
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just trying to build the mindset not
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necessarily build exactly that makes a
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ton of sense yeah and in honestly going
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through life I bet more engineers do
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programming in Excel than writing source
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code I mean at least in some ways um I
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think the other thing that Excel has as
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a and all spreadsheets but the thing
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that they have that really makes them is
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so much more approachable for people who
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think they can't program but are
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actually doing you know creating your
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own custom programmatic things is it
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makes data structures completely visual
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and there's yeah so there's this entire
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layer of abstraction of creating a data
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structure that is completely removed if
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you just see it and so much data
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actually fits to conceptually in a grid
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and you don't even know it you don't
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realize that as you're setting up this
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two-dimensional and you know I know you
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can do three dimensional stuff too but
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you know even if it's just to do a
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simple little two-dimensional
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spreadsheet
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you're creating a data structure but you
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don't even you know you're not really
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thinking about it that way yeah I think
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that's exactly it and you get and you
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can visualize you know you can literally
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visualize like how the numbers are
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moving around and moving through
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equations in you know like you're you're
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debugging you don't even realize you are
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but but that's exactly what's going on
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right anyway nothing but good things to
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say about excel so what else happened at
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this keynote what are they talking about
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what's the big what are people need to
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know about where Microsoft is is wants
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people to go and build it for those who
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don't know it's their developer
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conference so it's you know it's not
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necessarily consumer focus but it's what
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they want people developers to do yeah
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well I think that's that's part of the
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point is there really wasn't anything
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for consumers in in this at all I mean
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there was they had this or Cortana
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skills kit you know which which it would
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be you know a Dallas to sort of the
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Amazon echo skills things like that they
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have a new database service for Azure
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called cosmos DB which is very
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interesting but again speaking of data
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structure is not really something that
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people you know most people would think
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about or or or care about and where as
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tomorrow all right
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which I was yet tomorrow I always try to
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speak in terms of us time but even when
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I would it's not but tonight my time
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tomorrow they will have I think more
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consumer facing stuff but again I think
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it's it's really emblematic of the shift
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in the company that that is on day two
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and to me that's that's kind of the
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biggest high-level takeaway yeah it's
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they're sort of doing on their own
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volition you know under Satya Nadella
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what some people ten years ago add or I
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guess more than 10 years ago at this
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point I had argued that should be done
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by law which is break break the windows
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division off into its own subsidiary or
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separate company or something like that
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yep you know like I think that that let
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Microsoft stay focused on the future and
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let Windows sort of ride out the you
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know the role that it has to play is
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sort of legacy infrastructure yeah I
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think that's exactly that's exactly
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right and it's I didn't think they I
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didn't think they were capable of it
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like Windows was so long you know had so
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much gravitational pole in
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the company mej extent that at one of
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these keynotes a while ago like Asher
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was renamed Windows Azure even though it
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wasn't really Windows but but yeah
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that's a great point know here one of my
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favorite sort of little details here is
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they announced theirs now you could
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access the command line in this sort of
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your Azure dashboard or whatever it is
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like through web browser or on a mobile
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app and it supports bash today and
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PowerShell is coming PowerShell is the
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command line program for Windows and to
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me that that's that really that shows it
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right which one do they support first
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they support bash because what actually
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matters for most cloud applications is
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what most developers are used to is you
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know Linux and and the linux shell and
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that's where and so that's what they're
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serving first and the Windows part is
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coming but it will come it will come
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soon yeah I think it isn't PowerShell in
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a nutshell like there was the das prompt
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and PowerShell is sort of them okay we
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want a command line terminal type thing
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but das this piece of crap so here's
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something you know modern and and at
[TS]
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least maybe not modeled after UNIX
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shells but at least as powerful as UNIX
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shell yeah I mean it's it's it's a it's
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a whole thing I mean it's you know it's
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a shell and a whole Wincott us its own
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scripting language and it's not actually
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open source lis or not but it yeah it
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was released in 2006 I believe I'm just
[TS]
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◼
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looking it up so I mean it's it's very
[TS]
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◼
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far removed from the sort of DOS days I
[TS]
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◼
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mean it's a proper shell like if it's
[TS]
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◼
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used very heavily by system
[TS]
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◼
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administrators and and folks that are
[TS]
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◼
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managing computers and things like that
[TS]
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◼
►
it's used on the server so it mean it's
[TS]
00:10:33
◼
►
a proper shell it's but it's not you
[TS]
00:10:35
◼
►
know it's different then as as one would
[TS]
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◼
►
expect it's different than than bash can
[TS]
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◼
►
I just as an aside it's so funny because
[TS]
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◼
►
I didn't think we'd be talking about
[TS]
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◼
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shells but I do you ever use use command
[TS]
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◼
►
line on Mac os10 you use it sometimes
[TS]
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◼
►
right yeah rarely I have a couple
[TS]
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◼
►
servers that did not my not destroy your
[TS]
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◼
►
server that's managed but um I have a
[TS]
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◼
►
few other servers that I do stuff on and
[TS]
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◼
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I use it for that but I rarely I don't
[TS]
00:11:02
◼
►
do much scripting on on my
[TS]
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◼
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computer do you do you care what shall
[TS]
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◼
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you use no I don't care at all I use it
[TS]
00:11:09
◼
►
I use it very rarely I've I've used the
[TS]
00:11:11
◼
►
UNIX shell since at least 1990 - that's
[TS]
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◼
►
when ice when I switch to computer
[TS]
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◼
►
science at Drexel and I've you know I
[TS]
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◼
►
mean I'm um I know enough to get
[TS]
00:11:25
◼
►
whatever I need to do done but I've
[TS]
00:11:28
◼
►
never enjoyed it never really and I
[TS]
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◼
►
never really liked writing shell scripts
[TS]
00:11:33
◼
►
and so if I ever had anything that you
[TS]
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◼
►
most people would write a shell script
[TS]
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◼
►
once I found out about parole I just
[TS]
00:11:38
◼
►
wrote everything in Perl and just
[TS]
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◼
►
treated Perl if I needed to as my shell
[TS]
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◼
►
scripting language so I never really got
[TS]
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◼
►
deep roots and I know I think I think
[TS]
00:11:46
◼
►
Mac os10 used to when it first shipped
[TS]
00:11:49
◼
►
was using tcsh as the shell or something
[TS]
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◼
►
I don't know and at some point it
[TS]
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◼
►
switched to bash because bash sort of
[TS]
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◼
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become is like the most popular modern
[TS]
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◼
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scripting language because Linux uses
[TS]
00:12:01
◼
►
that I think but I never had deep roots
[TS]
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◼
►
like it was never like like people get
[TS]
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◼
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tied up and they have like these shelves
[TS]
00:12:08
◼
►
or files you know the what do you call
[TS]
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◼
►
your profile where you've got all these
[TS]
00:12:13
◼
►
aliases and all this stuff set up so
[TS]
00:12:15
◼
►
that you can't really switch shells very
[TS]
00:12:17
◼
►
easily because you'd have to rewrite it
[TS]
00:12:18
◼
►
so anyway recently I switched my shell
[TS]
00:12:22
◼
►
err on my Mac's to fish have you heard
[TS]
00:12:24
◼
►
about this shell I've heard you chatting
[TS]
00:12:28
◼
►
about it but it's no I it's fascinating
[TS]
00:12:31
◼
►
and I think anybody who has deep roots
[TS]
00:12:32
◼
►
into a UNIX shell is not going to switch
[TS]
00:12:35
◼
►
but it's a like a new shell it's you
[TS]
00:12:38
◼
►
know something that this guy Peter a man
[TS]
00:12:40
◼
►
made he's a engineer at Apple this isn't
[TS]
00:12:44
◼
►
an apple project it's something he did
[TS]
00:12:46
◼
►
on the side but it's amazing and I thing
[TS]
00:12:48
◼
►
I like about it is it's like completely
[TS]
00:12:50
◼
►
logical in terms of how you do stuff and
[TS]
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◼
►
it doesn't have any kind of it by
[TS]
00:12:57
◼
►
separating itself from from the history
[TS]
00:12:59
◼
►
of UNIX shells it breaks a bunch of
[TS]
00:13:03
◼
►
things that other UNIX shells all do but
[TS]
00:13:06
◼
►
it like just for one thing one thing
[TS]
00:13:08
◼
►
that's so nice is that instead of
[TS]
00:13:09
◼
►
spewing a whole bunch of like dot files
[TS]
00:13:12
◼
►
you know the UNIX way of making a file
[TS]
00:13:14
◼
►
quote-unquote invisible a start the name
[TS]
00:13:16
◼
►
of the dot which is
[TS]
00:13:17
◼
►
so gross that we're still using that but
[TS]
00:13:21
◼
►
they did they had these you end up with
[TS]
00:13:25
◼
►
like six of these files in your home
[TS]
00:13:26
◼
►
folder for each shell that you use
[TS]
00:13:28
◼
►
because in Iran they don't have names
[TS]
00:13:30
◼
►
that make any sense and no they drive me
[TS]
00:13:32
◼
►
up the wall I know exactly we talk about
[TS]
00:13:33
◼
►
right it doesn't make any sense at all
[TS]
00:13:35
◼
►
with fish you still have it you know a
[TS]
00:13:38
◼
►
dot file but it's it's a folder which is
[TS]
00:13:44
◼
►
it called it's called but I'm really
[TS]
00:13:48
◼
►
exciting tonight aren't I
[TS]
00:13:49
◼
►
I should do this later and I love that
[TS]
00:13:52
◼
►
it's called I think it's called like dot
[TS]
00:13:54
◼
►
config or something like that but
[TS]
00:13:56
◼
►
there's one it's a it makes it folder
[TS]
00:13:58
◼
►
instead of a file and it's just one
[TS]
00:14:00
◼
►
folder called dot config and inside
[TS]
00:14:03
◼
►
there is is where everything else goes
[TS]
00:14:10
◼
►
so you just there's like a folder in dot
[TS]
00:14:13
◼
►
config that says fish and then inside
[TS]
00:14:15
◼
►
that folder is all officious stuff so if
[TS]
00:14:17
◼
►
other utilities use this convention
[TS]
00:14:20
◼
►
everything could go nice and neatly into
[TS]
00:14:23
◼
►
one folder called config anyway it's
[TS]
00:14:25
◼
►
really neat I'll put a link in the show
[TS]
00:14:26
◼
►
notes to fish it's really I think it's
[TS]
00:14:29
◼
►
really neat so oh that reminds me what
[TS]
00:14:33
◼
►
is the last time I was on um 2000
[TS]
00:14:36
◼
►
January 2017 looks like and we talked
[TS]
00:14:39
◼
►
about the Mac a little bit then and I I
[TS]
00:14:41
◼
►
do have to say I think pretty much that
[TS]
00:14:43
◼
►
that episode holds up I think pretty
[TS]
00:14:45
◼
►
well after the after the the news that's
[TS]
00:14:50
◼
►
come out about the Mac Pro and things
[TS]
00:14:51
◼
►
like that like I think our general
[TS]
00:14:53
◼
►
presumption was that there was a screw
[TS]
00:14:55
◼
►
up they wand update it but couldn't and
[TS]
00:14:57
◼
►
they're not abandoning the platform and
[TS]
00:15:00
◼
►
and it was just a screw-up and I think
[TS]
00:15:02
◼
►
that's basically what ended up would end
[TS]
00:15:04
◼
►
up happening so that I'm glad we uh glad
[TS]
00:15:06
◼
►
we got that one right yeah I think so
[TS]
00:15:09
◼
►
anyway before I glued fish I'll just say
[TS]
00:15:11
◼
►
this if you're a nerd and nerdy enough
[TS]
00:15:12
◼
►
to use the terminal but you've somehow
[TS]
00:15:14
◼
►
never gotten attached to bash or
[TS]
00:15:16
◼
►
seashell or Z shell or any of those
[TS]
00:15:19
◼
►
things you should give fish a try it's
[TS]
00:15:21
◼
►
really easy to install
[TS]
00:15:22
◼
►
through homebrew and I like it so much
[TS]
00:15:25
◼
►
more than any shell I've ever tried
[TS]
00:15:27
◼
►
because it's just somehow makes sense it
[TS]
00:15:29
◼
►
makes sense that it comes from somebody
[TS]
00:15:30
◼
►
who works at Apple
[TS]
00:15:31
◼
►
it sort of makes sense in the way Apple
[TS]
00:15:32
◼
►
software does right that's what made me
[TS]
00:15:35
◼
►
think of it is the idea of like change
[TS]
00:15:36
◼
►
like one even having access to a shell
[TS]
00:15:39
◼
►
and being able to change it and all the
[TS]
00:15:41
◼
►
things you can do through a shell like
[TS]
00:15:42
◼
►
that's it's it's a thing you do on
[TS]
00:15:45
◼
►
computers which is that I start remember
[TS]
00:15:47
◼
►
why I went back to that last episode but
[TS]
00:15:49
◼
►
yeah that's why I mean it's a great
[TS]
00:15:51
◼
►
example yeah it does things like it has
[TS]
00:15:52
◼
►
like if you want to change the color the
[TS]
00:15:54
◼
►
syntax colouring for the shell like for
[TS]
00:15:56
◼
►
which like a command is this color the
[TS]
00:15:58
◼
►
arguments are this color the outputs
[TS]
00:16:00
◼
►
this color in error is this color when
[TS]
00:16:02
◼
►
you config you don't have to just type
[TS]
00:16:04
◼
►
in a file you can do something and it
[TS]
00:16:05
◼
►
opens a little web local web browser
[TS]
00:16:07
◼
►
window and so you can visually pick the
[TS]
00:16:10
◼
►
colors and see actually see the colors
[TS]
00:16:12
◼
►
as you add to them it's oh nice amazing
[TS]
00:16:14
◼
►
stuff it's so anyway it's really cool so
[TS]
00:16:20
◼
►
anyway PowerShell it's is coming soon it
[TS]
00:16:23
◼
►
and bash is already is the default and
[TS]
00:16:26
◼
►
first available thing that support for
[TS]
00:16:29
◼
►
this for this dashboard sort of
[TS]
00:16:31
◼
►
interface for the other thing I saw it
[TS]
00:16:32
◼
►
was announced was I forget what they
[TS]
00:16:34
◼
►
call it but whatever Microsoft version
[TS]
00:16:36
◼
►
of Xcode is what's it called virtual
[TS]
00:16:39
◼
►
studio visual studio whatever the visual
[TS]
00:16:41
◼
►
studio universal studio is now I know
[TS]
00:16:43
◼
►
it's not wasn't a surprise but it's
[TS]
00:16:45
◼
►
there's a version of it for Mac now
[TS]
00:16:47
◼
►
which is crazy yep and they did a demo
[TS]
00:16:51
◼
►
and it was more like oh we're doing a
[TS]
00:16:53
◼
►
demo on a Mac it wasn't like a we're
[TS]
00:16:55
◼
►
definitely this program but there's
[TS]
00:16:56
◼
►
actually when they were doing the I
[TS]
00:16:58
◼
►
think is when they're demoing the shell
[TS]
00:17:00
◼
►
and it was on a map yeah
[TS]
00:17:03
◼
►
and that it you know it it's of a piece
[TS]
00:17:06
◼
►
it's the exact same you know two sides
[TS]
00:17:08
◼
►
of the same coin with the windows
[TS]
00:17:10
◼
►
keynote being on day two the entire idea
[TS]
00:17:14
◼
►
that if you're developing on Windows
[TS]
00:17:18
◼
►
server side technologies the assumption
[TS]
00:17:21
◼
►
that you're developing with a Windows
[TS]
00:17:22
◼
►
client and with your hands on the
[TS]
00:17:24
◼
►
keyboard is no longer there like they're
[TS]
00:17:26
◼
►
completely come you know committed and
[TS]
00:17:28
◼
►
realized that but I don't know if it's a
[TS]
00:17:31
◼
►
majority of developers but certainly an
[TS]
00:17:34
◼
►
enormous chunk of them are using Mac's
[TS]
00:17:37
◼
►
as their client whether they're writing
[TS]
00:17:39
◼
►
Mac software or not even if they're just
[TS]
00:17:41
◼
►
doing like web development or Windows
[TS]
00:17:42
◼
►
development or something like that
[TS]
00:17:43
◼
►
or saw anything server-side I think
[TS]
00:17:45
◼
►
there's an enormous chunk of them who
[TS]
00:17:47
◼
►
are using MacBooks yep
[TS]
00:17:51
◼
►
no yep and and the platforms that
[TS]
00:17:53
◼
►
they're developing for um you know yes
[TS]
00:17:56
◼
►
on PC it's still meal windows still as
[TS]
00:17:59
◼
►
it you know dominant more the dominant
[TS]
00:18:01
◼
►
share but pcs aren't a piece species are
[TS]
00:18:06
◼
►
the fast I mean in a very real way or in
[TS]
00:18:08
◼
►
you know to a topic I'm sure we'll get
[TS]
00:18:11
◼
►
to there they were never even a thing so
[TS]
00:18:13
◼
►
and that's that's the reality that
[TS]
00:18:16
◼
►
Microsoft has to deal with for and to in
[TS]
00:18:18
◼
►
and I think they by and large are again
[TS]
00:18:20
◼
►
that doesn't mean that they're out of
[TS]
00:18:22
◼
►
the woods because they still have this
[TS]
00:18:24
◼
►
stuff to actually reach consumers
[TS]
00:18:25
◼
►
actually get in front of them both in
[TS]
00:18:27
◼
►
terms both in that applies to business
[TS]
00:18:29
◼
►
just as much as applies to to end-users
[TS]
00:18:31
◼
►
but at least they're you know not stuck
[TS]
00:18:35
◼
►
focused on focused on the past yeah yeah
[TS]
00:18:40
◼
►
so now we're in unusual how things
[TS]
00:18:45
◼
►
change situation where Microsoft is the
[TS]
00:18:48
◼
►
company that's flexible about what what
[TS]
00:18:51
◼
►
machines people are using to develop
[TS]
00:18:52
◼
►
against their technologies and apples
[TS]
00:18:54
◼
►
the company that makes you develop on a
[TS]
00:18:56
◼
►
Mac to write for their phone OS right
[TS]
00:18:59
◼
►
exactly exactly
[TS]
00:19:00
◼
►
not that I blame Apple for that might
[TS]
00:19:03
◼
►
have come out as me you know blaming
[TS]
00:19:04
◼
►
them I to makes profiles again but uh
[TS]
00:19:08
◼
►
it's just it's just a funny situation
[TS]
00:19:14
◼
►
yeah I mean the apples the company with
[TS]
00:19:17
◼
►
an operating system was such over well
[TS]
00:19:18
◼
►
at overwhelming market share that they
[TS]
00:19:20
◼
►
can compel developers to buy a machine
[TS]
00:19:23
◼
►
that they otherwise wouldn't buy just to
[TS]
00:19:25
◼
►
do development for it yeah it's it it
[TS]
00:19:28
◼
►
it's hard to especially if you were
[TS]
00:19:31
◼
►
following Apple I'm sure it's harder for
[TS]
00:19:33
◼
►
you than for me I mean back in I was
[TS]
00:19:35
◼
►
following Apple that I used when I
[TS]
00:19:36
◼
►
wasn't using one and to really
[TS]
00:19:41
◼
►
appreciate the extent to which they are
[TS]
00:19:43
◼
►
not the underdog
[TS]
00:19:45
◼
►
at all it like it's it's easy easier the
[TS]
00:19:48
◼
►
situation to change on the ground before
[TS]
00:19:49
◼
►
it's before changes sort of your mental
[TS]
00:19:52
◼
►
state and I think that's a proper app
[TS]
00:19:54
◼
►
that was an app prom for Apple
[TS]
00:19:56
◼
►
internally to like you
[TS]
00:19:57
◼
►
you act and behave changes when you're
[TS]
00:20:00
◼
►
when you're dominant as opposed to when
[TS]
00:20:02
◼
►
you're you know the sort of scrappy
[TS]
00:20:05
◼
►
scrappy underdog yeah um yeah totally so
[TS]
00:20:10
◼
►
what else is going on at surface or not
[TS]
00:20:12
◼
►
surface had build you know that's a
[TS]
00:20:14
◼
►
conference I was I was at the one time I
[TS]
00:20:16
◼
►
was in a video yes that's right uh feels
[TS]
00:20:20
◼
►
like a long time ago well it's it's I
[TS]
00:20:23
◼
►
mean it's crazy I'll lightning ahead Way
[TS]
00:20:24
◼
►
was a while ago it has to been what four
[TS]
00:20:27
◼
►
four or five years ago three years ago I
[TS]
00:20:29
◼
►
think I think was wrong I think so that
[TS]
00:20:32
◼
►
was somebody's I thought I was still in
[TS]
00:20:33
◼
►
the states when that happened but yeah I
[TS]
00:20:35
◼
►
think it was three years ago
[TS]
00:20:36
◼
►
but I could be wrong but long story
[TS]
00:20:37
◼
►
short for those who don't remember this
[TS]
00:20:39
◼
►
was when I was working with Brent
[TS]
00:20:40
◼
►
Simmons and Dave wish because they we
[TS]
00:20:42
◼
►
called her social q-branch we had her
[TS]
00:20:43
◼
►
app vesper and we did the sinking our
[TS]
00:20:47
◼
►
own sinking back-end for various reasons
[TS]
00:20:51
◼
►
but we built it on I guess I think we
[TS]
00:20:54
◼
►
were there right we were doing it at the
[TS]
00:20:55
◼
►
time when they called it Windows Azure
[TS]
00:20:58
◼
►
and they made like they made us one of
[TS]
00:21:01
◼
►
the like examples in a little video that
[TS]
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they showed on the in the keynote flew
[TS]
00:21:06
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us out there and everything was kind of
[TS]
00:21:08
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nice kind of weird they have yeah they
[TS]
00:21:11
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have this uh they have a real-time
[TS]
00:21:13
◼
►
translator for Microsoft PowerPoint
[TS]
00:21:15
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►
that's kind of nifty so when you can be
[TS]
00:21:18
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presenting and it will be show like
[TS]
00:21:20
◼
►
real-time translation of the of the UH
[TS]
00:21:25
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►
yeah so that's kind interesting but
[TS]
00:21:28
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again I mean it's it was mostly like it
[TS]
00:21:30
◼
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was it was mostly all back and stuff so
[TS]
00:21:32
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which which which is fine I think as far
[TS]
00:21:36
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as consumer-facing stuff you know the
[TS]
00:21:38
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one today is probably going to be more
[TS]
00:21:40
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more interesting but then again they
[TS]
00:21:42
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just announced the the windows s and the
[TS]
00:21:44
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new laptop so a couple weeks ago so I
[TS]
00:21:46
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think they're disposed there's really
[TS]
00:21:48
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might be a Cortana speaker like a like
[TS]
00:21:50
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►
an echo type device yeah at which but
[TS]
00:21:54
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again you know I mean actually getting
[TS]
00:21:56
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customers to get customers hands is
[TS]
00:21:58
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gonna is going to be the challenge I
[TS]
00:22:00
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guess the reason I was going to say I
[TS]
00:22:02
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gave somebody who observes Apple it's
[TS]
00:22:05
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weird because I
[TS]
00:22:07
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I have muscle memory you know and it's
[TS]
00:22:11
◼
►
weird to see a company that's so on
[TS]
00:22:13
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►
Apple like like it's baffling to me that
[TS]
00:22:16
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they would hold an event a week before
[TS]
00:22:19
◼
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their big developer conference right or
[TS]
00:22:21
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they would talk about a new operating
[TS]
00:22:23
◼
►
system and unveil these new products
[TS]
00:22:25
◼
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like why wouldn't you do that in the
[TS]
00:22:26
◼
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keynote but I'm guessing you know that
[TS]
00:22:28
◼
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the keynote this morning ran long and
[TS]
00:22:30
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then the Windows one tomorrow they're
[TS]
00:22:31
◼
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their keynotes already already run long
[TS]
00:22:34
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right I mean today was really I mean it
[TS]
00:22:37
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was much more of yeah it was pretty
[TS]
00:22:40
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hardcore like back-end development or
[TS]
00:22:42
◼
►
wine a business application sort of
[TS]
00:22:44
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►
stuff I mean it wasn't a really consumer
[TS]
00:22:46
◼
►
facing thing at all it not even on the
[TS]
00:22:49
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►
slightest and yeah maybe they could have
[TS]
00:22:51
◼
►
announced the the things tomorrow but I
[TS]
00:22:53
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think yeah there's a very queer sort of
[TS]
00:22:56
◼
►
bifurcation and I think you've nailed it
[TS]
00:22:58
◼
►
before what Windows is sort of its own
[TS]
00:23:00
◼
►
thing particularly the consumer facing
[TS]
00:23:02
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►
side of Windows and I think they there's
[TS]
00:23:05
◼
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relatively free rein to do what they can
[TS]
00:23:07
◼
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to you know support and earn customers
[TS]
00:23:10
◼
►
but that doesn't necessarily really have
[TS]
00:23:12
◼
►
much impact particularly from a
[TS]
00:23:15
◼
►
strategic perspective on the rest of
[TS]
00:23:17
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Microsoft which is you know really the
[TS]
00:23:19
◼
►
future of the company and that's
[TS]
00:23:21
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►
probably this is probably a good example
[TS]
00:23:23
◼
►
of that
[TS]
00:23:24
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►
it was weird I know today's build they
[TS]
00:23:28
◼
►
move it around I think all that I think
[TS]
00:23:29
◼
►
they often move it around but this Sears
[TS]
00:23:31
◼
►
is in Seattle when I went two or three
[TS]
00:23:33
◼
►
years ago three four years ago whenever
[TS]
00:23:35
◼
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it was it was in San Francisco in
[TS]
00:23:36
◼
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Moscone which only added to this sort of
[TS]
00:23:40
◼
►
we were feeling bizarro
[TS]
00:23:42
◼
►
like I was in a bizarro developer
[TS]
00:23:44
◼
►
bizarro WWDC because they even had the
[TS]
00:23:48
◼
►
keynote at third floor you know we wrap
[TS]
00:23:50
◼
►
what Apple always calls the room
[TS]
00:23:51
◼
►
Presidio you know that the those big
[TS]
00:23:56
◼
►
convention spaces are sort of like
[TS]
00:23:58
◼
►
modular you know there's walls that can
[TS]
00:24:00
◼
►
be moved around to change the shape and
[TS]
00:24:02
◼
►
make room slightly bigger or smaller but
[TS]
00:24:07
◼
►
the thing that Microsoft did what and
[TS]
00:24:09
◼
►
I've seen so many keynotes in that room
[TS]
00:24:11
◼
►
because Macworld Expo used to have
[TS]
00:24:13
◼
►
keynotes
[TS]
00:24:13
◼
►
in the same room WWDC every year I guess
[TS]
00:24:18
◼
►
those are the two things but they're
[TS]
00:24:19
◼
►
Macworld Expo and W
[TS]
00:24:21
◼
►
Sika notes in that room and apples
[TS]
00:24:23
◼
►
configuration of the room is almost
[TS]
00:24:25
◼
►
always the same it's a very if you'd
[TS]
00:24:27
◼
►
almost think that it the room always
[TS]
00:24:29
◼
►
looks like that but it's actually like
[TS]
00:24:30
◼
►
an apple setup like it when WWDC has
[TS]
00:24:33
◼
►
done all that everything in there is out
[TS]
00:24:35
◼
►
and the thing that Microsoft did was
[TS]
00:24:37
◼
►
they had their stage along what in
[TS]
00:24:41
◼
►
Apple's configuration is the side like
[TS]
00:24:44
◼
►
Apple sits the room with the stage in
[TS]
00:24:46
◼
►
the front and the room goes back long
[TS]
00:24:48
◼
►
Microsoft set it up said that the stage
[TS]
00:24:51
◼
►
was wide and the room wasn't as deep and
[TS]
00:24:55
◼
►
they site in a way that that made sense
[TS]
00:24:57
◼
►
even though it made more people
[TS]
00:24:59
◼
►
everybody was closer to the stage and
[TS]
00:25:01
◼
►
Microsoft's configuration but people
[TS]
00:25:03
◼
►
were further from the center if you
[TS]
00:25:05
◼
►
didn't have a center seat and they made
[TS]
00:25:07
◼
►
up for that by having huge screens that
[TS]
00:25:09
◼
►
were just showed the same instead of
[TS]
00:25:11
◼
►
having one big screen that shows
[TS]
00:25:13
◼
►
something they had like a wall of
[TS]
00:25:15
◼
►
screens that all showed the same thing
[TS]
00:25:16
◼
►
over and over again and it just weirded
[TS]
00:25:20
◼
►
me out it was just guess it's you know
[TS]
00:25:23
◼
►
it's like coming home and somebody has
[TS]
00:25:24
◼
►
moved all of the furniture like
[TS]
00:25:26
◼
►
everything is the same except they've
[TS]
00:25:28
◼
►
rotated every room in your house by 90
[TS]
00:25:30
◼
►
degrees that would be weird uh but yet
[TS]
00:25:34
◼
►
no no no Moscone keynote again this year
[TS]
00:25:37
◼
►
I mean right well they've been in the
[TS]
00:25:39
◼
►
the what is it the Billy Billy Graham
[TS]
00:25:41
◼
►
auditorium oh is that what it's called I
[TS]
00:25:44
◼
►
uh something like that I don't think I
[TS]
00:25:46
◼
►
mean they might never do Apple might
[TS]
00:25:48
◼
►
never do a Moscone right I was gonna say
[TS]
00:25:50
◼
►
yeah what might be uh which is fine he
[TS]
00:25:54
◼
►
wasn't it wasn't the greatest I didn't
[TS]
00:25:56
◼
►
like the I'm not a big fan of the Apple
[TS]
00:25:57
◼
►
set up in Moscow nee I'm not either
[TS]
00:26:00
◼
►
really I don't have anything against it
[TS]
00:26:02
◼
►
but I thought the Microsoft setup was
[TS]
00:26:03
◼
►
actually very nice I've it worked very
[TS]
00:26:06
◼
►
well and I felt like everybody got to
[TS]
00:26:09
◼
►
you couldn't really see may not be able
[TS]
00:26:11
◼
►
to see the actual people but if you know
[TS]
00:26:13
◼
►
I feel like if you were sitting seated
[TS]
00:26:15
◼
►
along the side you had a much bigger
[TS]
00:26:16
◼
►
screen in front of you than you get
[TS]
00:26:18
◼
►
seated in the back in Moscow me an apple
[TS]
00:26:21
◼
►
setup right exactly yeah I don't think
[TS]
00:26:24
◼
►
Apple Apple might never have an event in
[TS]
00:26:26
◼
►
San Francisco again you never say never
[TS]
00:26:27
◼
►
I mean who knows but I because I feel
[TS]
00:26:30
◼
►
like for their smaller events they're
[TS]
00:26:32
◼
►
going to have them at their headquarters
[TS]
00:26:32
◼
►
in the Steve Jobs theater
[TS]
00:26:34
◼
►
right I don't think you name the theater
[TS]
00:26:36
◼
►
Steve Jobs theater unless you intend to
[TS]
00:26:39
◼
►
use it quite a bit to unveil new
[TS]
00:26:41
◼
►
products right like I'm sure they're you
[TS]
00:26:44
◼
►
know have you been to the new campus you
[TS]
00:26:46
◼
►
know I've never I don't even know where
[TS]
00:26:48
◼
►
it is I was asking about it when I was
[TS]
00:26:49
◼
►
out there for the Mac Pro summit
[TS]
00:26:52
◼
►
whatever you want to round table
[TS]
00:26:54
◼
►
discussion it was a I guess it just
[TS]
00:26:58
◼
►
isn't close I don't know to be I just
[TS]
00:27:01
◼
►
worked there
[TS]
00:27:01
◼
►
so I one of the buildings that was that
[TS]
00:27:03
◼
►
was torn down so I definitely know where
[TS]
00:27:06
◼
►
it is be guys it's it's it's like
[TS]
00:27:08
◼
►
another exit on the freeway from from
[TS]
00:27:10
◼
►
where the current campus is right and I
[TS]
00:27:12
◼
►
did you could drive there through
[TS]
00:27:14
◼
►
through through city roads but yeah it's
[TS]
00:27:16
◼
►
a little bit of a hike it on the other
[TS]
00:27:18
◼
►
side of the freeway so it just wasn't
[TS]
00:27:21
◼
►
convenient and I didn't have a car so
[TS]
00:27:22
◼
►
what wasn't like I was going to take an
[TS]
00:27:24
◼
►
uber to go look at a construction site I
[TS]
00:27:27
◼
►
mean those fly overs that people publish
[TS]
00:27:29
◼
►
from those drones are probably better
[TS]
00:27:31
◼
►
than what you'd get looking at the
[TS]
00:27:32
◼
►
ground from the outside yep yeah I think
[TS]
00:27:36
◼
►
so I mean maybe uh I mean I imagine the
[TS]
00:27:42
◼
►
ID well I guess we'll see with the
[TS]
00:27:44
◼
►
iPhone with the iPhone announcement but
[TS]
00:27:47
◼
►
they did that they did that in San Jose
[TS]
00:27:49
◼
►
also not last year but for the when they
[TS]
00:27:53
◼
►
did the watch the watch unveiling was
[TS]
00:27:55
◼
►
was in San Jose uh yeah where was that I
[TS]
00:28:00
◼
►
forget where it was I don't think it was
[TS]
00:28:01
◼
►
San Jose no it was at the the watch
[TS]
00:28:04
◼
►
unveiling was at the the College in
[TS]
00:28:08
◼
►
Cupertino
[TS]
00:28:08
◼
►
oh is that was that Cupertino I I hope
[TS]
00:28:12
◼
►
it wasn't it's like some that I forget
[TS]
00:28:15
◼
►
the name of the college but De Anza or
[TS]
00:28:17
◼
►
something I I forget what the hell of
[TS]
00:28:19
◼
►
this but it was not know the one that
[TS]
00:28:20
◼
►
was in San Jose was an iPad event like
[TS]
00:28:23
◼
►
in 2011 I think or 2012 I don't know it
[TS]
00:28:26
◼
►
was right before Scott Forstall got
[TS]
00:28:28
◼
►
fired how was the how was the the Danza
[TS]
00:28:33
◼
►
auditorium or whatever it was I was all
[TS]
00:28:35
◼
►
right it wasn't it wasn't anything to
[TS]
00:28:39
◼
►
write home about that was the one where
[TS]
00:28:41
◼
►
Apple build a big mysterious white box
[TS]
00:28:42
◼
►
out front right right right and that was
[TS]
00:28:44
◼
►
the end ecology of the ends is that what
[TS]
00:28:46
◼
►
it is DeAnza College
[TS]
00:28:48
◼
►
yep um it was okay uh I'm not surprised
[TS]
00:28:52
◼
►
that they haven't been back since I
[TS]
00:28:54
◼
►
don't think it was great I think the one
[TS]
00:28:56
◼
►
thing people don't seem to understand is
[TS]
00:28:58
◼
►
that this Steve Jobs theater is not that
[TS]
00:29:00
◼
►
big either like there's no way they
[TS]
00:29:01
◼
►
can't have like a WWE seeking out there
[TS]
00:29:07
◼
►
some people have speculated that you
[TS]
00:29:09
◼
►
know maybe this year they'll secretly
[TS]
00:29:11
◼
►
bus everybody to the new campus to have
[TS]
00:29:13
◼
►
the keynote there or something that's
[TS]
00:29:14
◼
►
like--that's that no you can't but it
[TS]
00:29:17
◼
►
can't bus 5,000 people there but B it's
[TS]
00:29:20
◼
►
not a 5,000 person auditorium I don't
[TS]
00:29:21
◼
►
know what this evening and see that they
[TS]
00:29:23
◼
►
don't want 5,000 people writing her on
[TS]
00:29:25
◼
►
that campus right I don't think yeah I
[TS]
00:29:27
◼
►
don't think they want people on their
[TS]
00:29:28
◼
►
campus well be the old the old uh the
[TS]
00:29:31
◼
►
old one town uh what's called God
[TS]
00:29:33
◼
►
yeah Tony Hall that was tiny that was
[TS]
00:29:36
◼
►
turn it was like but I said I'm sure
[TS]
00:29:39
◼
►
yeah that makes sense though I suppose
[TS]
00:29:42
◼
►
the I bet WABC will end up back in San
[TS]
00:29:45
◼
►
Francisco we'll see I'll probably see
[TS]
00:29:48
◼
►
how it goes this year and then because
[TS]
00:29:50
◼
►
the reason it's in San Jose this year is
[TS]
00:29:51
◼
►
because Moscone Center construction I
[TS]
00:29:53
◼
►
don't know what I don't believe that
[TS]
00:29:55
◼
►
I really don't what well basically all
[TS]
00:29:57
◼
►
of the but everyone is not in Moscone by
[TS]
00:30:01
◼
►
and large like how they have there been
[TS]
00:30:02
◼
►
any big events there I mean I know only
[TS]
00:30:03
◼
►
part of Muskaan's are construction but I
[TS]
00:30:05
◼
►
don't think Apple is the only one to let
[TS]
00:30:08
◼
►
their stuff on their schedule if you
[TS]
00:30:09
◼
►
look it's so north and south Moscone
[TS]
00:30:11
◼
►
north and south the big like the expo
[TS]
00:30:13
◼
►
hall ones are closed and they're ripping
[TS]
00:30:15
◼
►
up the street i if there's an argument
[TS]
00:30:17
◼
►
for it it's the fact that they've got
[TS]
00:30:19
◼
►
the street ripped up I guess that's
[TS]
00:30:20
◼
►
Howard Street is all ripped up for the
[TS]
00:30:23
◼
►
north and south expansion but Moscone
[TS]
00:30:25
◼
►
West is still open and is not being
[TS]
00:30:27
◼
►
renovated and I've you know before Apple
[TS]
00:30:30
◼
►
made this announcement you could look on
[TS]
00:30:31
◼
►
the schedule in their world you know
[TS]
00:30:33
◼
►
there was like one open week in June but
[TS]
00:30:35
◼
►
the otherwise there's stuff in Moscone
[TS]
00:30:37
◼
►
week Moscone West all the time I could
[TS]
00:30:41
◼
►
be wrong yeah not are you right I don't
[TS]
00:30:44
◼
►
know I mean who cares if the streets
[TS]
00:30:46
◼
►
ripped up I've seen people say well the
[TS]
00:30:47
◼
►
streets all ripped up oh who gives a
[TS]
00:30:49
◼
►
I don't know you'd say nobody's done
[TS]
00:30:51
◼
►
like everybody's driving down Howard
[TS]
00:30:53
◼
►
Street to get to WWDC I think if Apple
[TS]
00:30:55
◼
►
wanted to have it at Moscone West this
[TS]
00:30:57
◼
►
year they would have
[TS]
00:30:58
◼
►
I think there's other reasons you know
[TS]
00:31:01
◼
►
whether they got a better deal whether
[TS]
00:31:03
◼
►
they really you know I I do think I
[TS]
00:31:05
◼
►
think Apple is if you can put a
[TS]
00:31:07
◼
►
personality on a company there are a
[TS]
00:31:09
◼
►
homebody company they they don't that
[TS]
00:31:13
◼
►
are not a San Francisco company I know
[TS]
00:31:14
◼
►
they have a couple of offices there but
[TS]
00:31:16
◼
►
you know they really are at as a company
[TS]
00:31:19
◼
►
they're at home on their campus in
[TS]
00:31:21
◼
►
Cupertino and I feel like they being
[TS]
00:31:23
◼
►
closer to home is better for them yeah
[TS]
00:31:26
◼
►
no question I mean just being in the
[TS]
00:31:30
◼
►
valley I mean they're they're not it's
[TS]
00:31:31
◼
►
it's own insular sort of culture like
[TS]
00:31:34
◼
►
it's much less sort of interspersed I've
[TS]
00:31:37
◼
►
obviously an employee level that's on
[TS]
00:31:39
◼
►
the solicit case but especially once you
[TS]
00:31:41
◼
►
get more into senior management I mean
[TS]
00:31:42
◼
►
it's it's it's own world like it's in
[TS]
00:31:45
◼
►
the same geographic area but the rest of
[TS]
00:31:48
◼
►
the valley I think is much more
[TS]
00:31:49
◼
►
intertwined with Google and there's much
[TS]
00:31:53
◼
►
more of a sort of back and forth in in
[TS]
00:31:54
◼
►
that perspective when it comes to sort
[TS]
00:31:56
◼
►
of Big Valley companies and and you know
[TS]
00:31:58
◼
►
in San Francisco but yeah my Apple has
[TS]
00:32:00
◼
►
always been its own its own sort of
[TS]
00:32:03
◼
►
universe and you see it you see that all
[TS]
00:32:05
◼
►
over the place not just in the valley
[TS]
00:32:06
◼
►
you see it sort of online you see it
[TS]
00:32:08
◼
►
when it comes to Apple fans there's a
[TS]
00:32:10
◼
►
lot of people who are Apple fans or that
[TS]
00:32:11
◼
►
are not necessarily tech fans you know I
[TS]
00:32:14
◼
►
actually see that when it comes to like
[TS]
00:32:15
◼
►
readers and you see it you know in
[TS]
00:32:19
◼
►
popular culture where yeah it's
[TS]
00:32:22
◼
►
interesting it really is its own sort of
[TS]
00:32:23
◼
►
its own sort of entity for better or
[TS]
00:32:26
◼
►
worse yeah and I think at a practical
[TS]
00:32:28
◼
►
level it's absolutely the case I mean
[TS]
00:32:30
◼
►
there's no argument no spin it's just
[TS]
00:32:32
◼
►
just a fact that San Jose is so much
[TS]
00:32:35
◼
►
closer to Apple's campus or campuses and
[TS]
00:32:39
◼
►
Cupertino that for engineers at Apple
[TS]
00:32:43
◼
►
who have things to do that week that
[TS]
00:32:46
◼
►
they need to be at the office they can
[TS]
00:32:47
◼
►
swing by they might be able to do a
[TS]
00:32:49
◼
►
couple of hours work in their office and
[TS]
00:32:51
◼
►
then go to WWDC in the afternoon for
[TS]
00:32:55
◼
►
labs or something like that and people
[TS]
00:32:57
◼
►
might get you know attendees might get
[TS]
00:32:59
◼
►
interaction with significantly more
[TS]
00:33:01
◼
►
engineers from Apple who couldn't take
[TS]
00:33:03
◼
►
an entire day to go up to San Francisco
[TS]
00:33:06
◼
►
because it's night and day
[TS]
00:33:07
◼
►
I mean San Francisco is can be over an
[TS]
00:33:10
◼
►
hour away
[TS]
00:33:11
◼
►
depending on traffic and San Jose it's
[TS]
00:33:14
◼
►
you know probably like 10 15 minute
[TS]
00:33:15
◼
►
drive yep yep exactly as you you found
[TS]
00:33:19
◼
►
us you found a good spot for for the
[TS]
00:33:21
◼
►
talk show yeah yeah I'm in that
[TS]
00:33:22
◼
►
California theater where that iPad event
[TS]
00:33:26
◼
►
was the one that was in San Jose so he's
[TS]
00:33:30
◼
►
a lot bigger than the old place good
[TS]
00:33:32
◼
►
place where I had my show yeah oh my god
[TS]
00:33:34
◼
►
it's so much bigger it's guys like as I
[TS]
00:33:37
◼
►
get 1,100 seat capacity and I thought
[TS]
00:33:39
◼
►
that when we had it mezzanine in San
[TS]
00:33:42
◼
►
Francisco which I love which I still if
[TS]
00:33:44
◼
►
you know I love that facility I love
[TS]
00:33:47
◼
►
doing a show there but I think we capped
[TS]
00:33:48
◼
►
it at 500 I think you could mezzanine a
[TS]
00:33:53
◼
►
attendance cap is significantly higher
[TS]
00:33:55
◼
►
than that but 500 seems to you know and
[TS]
00:33:58
◼
►
and judging from people's reactions over
[TS]
00:34:00
◼
►
the years if it's it keeps it from
[TS]
00:34:02
◼
►
getting too crowded like I don't want to
[TS]
00:34:04
◼
►
attack the most number of people in
[TS]
00:34:05
◼
►
there I feel bad when people like I
[TS]
00:34:08
◼
►
think tickets sold out in like 10
[TS]
00:34:09
◼
►
minutes last year so I feel bad that
[TS]
00:34:10
◼
►
people want to go can't come but I'd
[TS]
00:34:13
◼
►
rather have everybody I draw there are
[TS]
00:34:16
◼
►
fewer people come and more people
[TS]
00:34:17
◼
►
excluded but have everybody be
[TS]
00:34:19
◼
►
comfortable but I uh yeah are there
[TS]
00:34:21
◼
►
gonna be drinks I think that's probably
[TS]
00:34:23
◼
►
the the more pressing question there
[TS]
00:34:24
◼
►
will be drinks and I don't know how
[TS]
00:34:26
◼
►
that's going to work because it's a
[TS]
00:34:28
◼
►
the--it's a real theater theater and I
[TS]
00:34:30
◼
►
don't know yeah any pictures right now
[TS]
00:34:31
◼
►
right I don't know how easy it'll be for
[TS]
00:34:33
◼
►
people who are sitting in the middle of
[TS]
00:34:34
◼
►
a road to go get drinks so I don't know
[TS]
00:34:36
◼
►
it might have to be sort of a you know
[TS]
00:34:40
◼
►
get your load on get your load on before
[TS]
00:34:42
◼
►
the show starts that was the great thing
[TS]
00:34:43
◼
►
about Bethenny's you could like every
[TS]
00:34:45
◼
►
obviously there was the seating and if
[TS]
00:34:46
◼
►
you're in a seat was the your
[TS]
00:34:48
◼
►
interviewer or you know the show was
[TS]
00:34:50
◼
►
going on you wouldn't get up and go but
[TS]
00:34:51
◼
►
you could also just sort of be in the
[TS]
00:34:53
◼
►
back and be you know mingling a little
[TS]
00:34:55
◼
►
bit and getting a drink and uh so yeah
[TS]
00:34:58
◼
►
it kind of served a you could watch you
[TS]
00:35:00
◼
►
could watch the show in multiple in
[TS]
00:35:02
◼
►
multiple ways okay which was nice well
[TS]
00:35:05
◼
►
we'll see I don't know
[TS]
00:35:05
◼
►
but 1,100 people Jesus that's going to
[TS]
00:35:07
◼
►
be nerve-racking as a balcony and
[TS]
00:35:10
◼
►
everything it does is it's very
[TS]
00:35:12
◼
►
beautiful I'm looking at the looking at
[TS]
00:35:14
◼
►
the pictures right now yeah take it
[TS]
00:35:17
◼
►
still aren't on sale but they will be
[TS]
00:35:20
◼
►
that's right now okay I forgot that you
[TS]
00:35:24
◼
►
hadn't I like that maybe people give the
[TS]
00:35:26
◼
►
Munsell with how you post what I am you
[TS]
00:35:28
◼
►
know I'm not waiting till the last
[TS]
00:35:29
◼
►
minute but it's just lots of little too
[TS]
00:35:31
◼
►
it's not too much work I don't have to
[TS]
00:35:33
◼
►
it's not like I'm sitting there hooking
[TS]
00:35:34
◼
►
microphones up and stuff but there's a
[TS]
00:35:37
◼
►
lot of details to be worked out yet
[TS]
00:35:38
◼
►
anyway well hopefully hopefully I didn't
[TS]
00:35:40
◼
►
give it give anything away no no no no
[TS]
00:35:42
◼
►
no no that's a secret it even the venue
[TS]
00:35:44
◼
►
is art it's right there on apple's
[TS]
00:35:45
◼
►
website and stuff like that so i'm not
[TS]
00:35:47
◼
►
keeping it secret anyway let's take a
[TS]
00:35:50
◼
►
break i thank our four sponsors our good
[TS]
00:35:51
◼
►
friends at fracture fracture is the
[TS]
00:35:54
◼
►
photo decor company that's out to rescue
[TS]
00:35:56
◼
►
your favorite images from the digital
[TS]
00:35:58
◼
►
ether that's their words not mine here's
[TS]
00:36:01
◼
►
what they do they take your photos they
[TS]
00:36:02
◼
►
print them directly on glass right there
[TS]
00:36:04
◼
►
on the glass on the glass not a piece of
[TS]
00:36:06
◼
►
paper glued to glass they I don't know
[TS]
00:36:08
◼
►
what they have they've custom
[TS]
00:36:09
◼
►
proprietary stuff they just put glass
[TS]
00:36:12
◼
►
into the printer the printer puts your
[TS]
00:36:15
◼
►
photo right on the glass and then they
[TS]
00:36:16
◼
►
mail it to you and it looks amazing it's
[TS]
00:36:19
◼
►
got that Retina effect where it just
[TS]
00:36:21
◼
►
looks like it doesn't look it looks
[TS]
00:36:23
◼
►
there's just such a different effect
[TS]
00:36:25
◼
►
than a piece of paper behind a piece of
[TS]
00:36:27
◼
►
glass and frame and it takes all the
[TS]
00:36:30
◼
►
pain-in-the-ass stuff out of hanging
[TS]
00:36:32
◼
►
pictures up because this happens to me
[TS]
00:36:34
◼
►
every time every time I used to get like
[TS]
00:36:37
◼
►
Ikea frames or something like that you'd
[TS]
00:36:38
◼
►
put a photo in there and then you have
[TS]
00:36:40
◼
►
to get those little things on the back
[TS]
00:36:42
◼
►
that take that secure the cardboard you
[TS]
00:36:44
◼
►
flip them up and then you put the
[TS]
00:36:46
◼
►
picture in then you put the cardboard
[TS]
00:36:47
◼
►
back in and you flip them back down and
[TS]
00:36:48
◼
►
inevitably the picture goes like two
[TS]
00:36:50
◼
►
degrees off and you got to open it up
[TS]
00:36:53
◼
►
start all over again what a pain in the
[TS]
00:36:54
◼
►
ass with the pictures from fractured
[TS]
00:36:57
◼
►
there's nothing like that can happen
[TS]
00:36:58
◼
►
it's just a piece of glass so it's
[TS]
00:36:59
◼
►
always perfectly aligned and they ship
[TS]
00:37:02
◼
►
you everything you need to hang it on
[TS]
00:37:04
◼
►
the wall in the box they even include
[TS]
00:37:06
◼
►
the wall anchor just upload your digital
[TS]
00:37:08
◼
►
photo on their website pick the size and
[TS]
00:37:10
◼
►
just wait for it to show up in a mail
[TS]
00:37:12
◼
►
that's it could not be easier where do
[TS]
00:37:15
◼
►
you go to find out more fracture me.com
[TS]
00:37:18
◼
►
slash podcast not did everyone every
[TS]
00:37:22
◼
►
time I read it I feel like I'm making a
[TS]
00:37:23
◼
►
mistake and that that's some kind of
[TS]
00:37:25
◼
►
placeholder but that's really the URL
[TS]
00:37:26
◼
►
fracture me.com slash podcast and then I
[TS]
00:37:30
◼
►
guess they use the same URL for all
[TS]
00:37:32
◼
►
podcasts but then at the end when you
[TS]
00:37:34
◼
►
they'll say hey where'd you find out
[TS]
00:37:35
◼
►
about fracture and you can say the talk
[TS]
00:37:38
◼
►
hey go buy something for Father's Day
[TS]
00:37:40
◼
►
it's a great great gift too late for
[TS]
00:37:41
◼
►
Mother's Day Mother's Day is like two
[TS]
00:37:43
◼
►
days from now but fathers days coming up
[TS]
00:37:46
◼
►
next month what an amazing gift go buy a
[TS]
00:37:49
◼
►
fracture for your for your father your
[TS]
00:37:51
◼
►
husband anything like that what a great
[TS]
00:37:55
◼
►
well I fractured me is is memorable yeah
[TS]
00:37:59
◼
►
and to your l's at euros are hard
[TS]
00:38:01
◼
►
there's someone was making fun of there
[TS]
00:38:04
◼
►
is a tweets and effective tech before so
[TS]
00:38:07
◼
►
are so uncreated that they have a site
[TS]
00:38:09
◼
►
about strategy and tactile trajectory
[TS]
00:38:10
◼
►
and I'm like it's it's true I've no I've
[TS]
00:38:13
◼
►
no excuse every dairy firewall as always
[TS]
00:38:16
◼
►
I'm always like damaged I should have
[TS]
00:38:19
◼
►
hired you to get a name you find me a
[TS]
00:38:21
◼
►
name before I started but I know it's
[TS]
00:38:23
◼
►
now it's too late
[TS]
00:38:24
◼
►
it's the other thing too is is getting
[TS]
00:38:25
◼
►
any URLs hard and the one of the things
[TS]
00:38:27
◼
►
when I started I had no money I was I
[TS]
00:38:30
◼
►
was in debt that you know and the idea
[TS]
00:38:33
◼
►
like going out and spending money to get
[TS]
00:38:35
◼
►
a a URL or whatever or Twitter handle
[TS]
00:38:38
◼
►
stuff like one of the advantages of
[TS]
00:38:40
◼
►
trajectory is it was available um I
[TS]
00:38:41
◼
►
would I like I said I probably wouldn't
[TS]
00:38:43
◼
►
use it again if I starting over because
[TS]
00:38:45
◼
►
it's you know so hard to say hard to
[TS]
00:38:46
◼
►
spell hahaha which is not a good not a
[TS]
00:38:49
◼
►
good combo but but yeah it's it's hard
[TS]
00:38:52
◼
►
you the whole URL Twitter handle thing
[TS]
00:38:55
◼
►
is uh it's tough you know I remember
[TS]
00:38:59
◼
►
fracture me especially now after you
[TS]
00:39:01
◼
►
sort of made that that that little joke
[TS]
00:39:03
◼
►
you know that I have during fireball
[TS]
00:39:06
◼
►
calm right yeah but it redirects to done
[TS]
00:39:09
◼
►
it right and some people don't ask about
[TS]
00:39:11
◼
►
that anymore in the early years people
[TS]
00:39:12
◼
►
would be like why why do you why do you
[TS]
00:39:14
◼
►
redirect to.net why don't you know
[TS]
00:39:16
◼
►
wouldn't would most people if I have
[TS]
00:39:18
◼
►
both redirected calm and I think it's
[TS]
00:39:22
◼
►
like to me it's like I started using the
[TS]
00:39:24
◼
►
internet so early when most domains
[TS]
00:39:28
◼
►
weren't comms you know like dot orgs and
[TS]
00:39:31
◼
►
dot ed use bed use were probably the
[TS]
00:39:33
◼
►
most popular that I used uh and net to
[TS]
00:39:37
◼
►
but to me.com was sort of crass in the
[TS]
00:39:41
◼
►
early years and I know that in the you
[TS]
00:39:43
◼
►
know after the document even called the
[TS]
00:39:45
◼
►
bubble the calm bubble like
[TS]
00:39:47
◼
►
sort of became the the neutral one right
[TS]
00:39:51
◼
►
it's like ground zero of all the
[TS]
00:39:53
◼
►
top-level domains like by default you
[TS]
00:39:55
◼
►
wanna calm but like when I was I'm in my
[TS]
00:39:59
◼
►
mind it still is sort of crass I don't
[TS]
00:40:02
◼
►
again the early years all the dot-com
[TS]
00:40:04
◼
►
sites were garbage right with it was
[TS]
00:40:08
◼
►
supposed to be like commercial right I
[TS]
00:40:09
◼
►
think it was dancefloor then try I like
[TS]
00:40:12
◼
►
I liked I agree I like dotnet better but
[TS]
00:40:15
◼
►
yes I give in to the to the prevailing I
[TS]
00:40:18
◼
►
own trajectory got net also but it
[TS]
00:40:19
◼
►
redirects in the opposite direction
[TS]
00:40:21
◼
►
right and like Kottke I think a lot of
[TS]
00:40:23
◼
►
really early types you know like me I
[TS]
00:40:27
◼
►
was it like hockey org yeah and I just
[TS]
00:40:29
◼
►
it wouldn't work like neither it somehow
[TS]
00:40:32
◼
►
is part of the domain like cocky net
[TS]
00:40:34
◼
►
wouldn't be right cocky calm would be
[TS]
00:40:36
◼
►
awful like it just it wouldn't be the
[TS]
00:40:39
◼
►
same like Kottke org is exactly right
[TS]
00:40:41
◼
►
and for whatever reason in my mind it's
[TS]
00:40:44
◼
►
just like when you rewrite a sentence
[TS]
00:40:46
◼
►
and just use the same words but you put
[TS]
00:40:49
◼
►
a clause in the middle of the sentence
[TS]
00:40:51
◼
►
as opposed to at the end or something
[TS]
00:40:52
◼
►
like that and one way reads great in one
[TS]
00:40:54
◼
►
way it doesn't to me daring firebolt net
[TS]
00:40:56
◼
►
reads better than daring fireball calm I
[TS]
00:41:00
◼
►
relayed the great thing
[TS]
00:41:01
◼
►
Mozart go ahead go ahead man oh no I
[TS]
00:41:04
◼
►
just I just gonna say there's a great
[TS]
00:41:05
◼
►
thing about daring fireball is it's so
[TS]
00:41:07
◼
►
distinct that you can one if you type
[TS]
00:41:11
◼
►
these if you type in URL and then the
[TS]
00:41:13
◼
►
thing is that no one actually types you
[TS]
00:41:14
◼
►
know us us nerds do but the best or
[TS]
00:41:16
◼
►
people don't even you know type URLs
[TS]
00:41:19
◼
►
like the google has the whole you know
[TS]
00:41:22
◼
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uh like a huge number back in the day
[TS]
00:41:25
◼
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like they they could track how popular
[TS]
00:41:27
◼
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Facebook was because my people you know
[TS]
00:41:28
◼
►
typing Facebook into Google to go to
[TS]
00:41:30
◼
►
Facebook know what's more people doesn't
[TS]
00:41:33
◼
►
really rusher but that's great about
[TS]
00:41:34
◼
►
during fireball even if you do your L or
[TS]
00:41:36
◼
►
you do a Google search whatever it's
[TS]
00:41:37
◼
►
going to its memorable and it's going to
[TS]
00:41:39
◼
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come up right away
[TS]
00:41:40
◼
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wasn't there a thing where oh off the
[TS]
00:41:43
◼
►
top of my head I'm not remembering it
[TS]
00:41:45
◼
►
right but there was a thing where the
[TS]
00:41:46
◼
►
number one result for facebook login was
[TS]
00:41:48
◼
►
no longer the facebook login page and
[TS]
00:41:51
◼
►
the poor bugger who had it was just some
[TS]
00:41:54
◼
►
guy site or something and they the guy
[TS]
00:41:56
◼
►
was just inundated with thousands of
[TS]
00:41:58
◼
►
people saying how to
[TS]
00:42:00
◼
►
what have you done to Facebook this
[TS]
00:42:01
◼
►
doesn't look like Facebook do you
[TS]
00:42:03
◼
►
remember that I I don't but that would
[TS]
00:42:06
◼
►
be brutal
[TS]
00:42:06
◼
►
right it's pretty because that's how
[TS]
00:42:08
◼
►
people get to the facebook login sign
[TS]
00:42:10
◼
►
they go to Google and then type facebook
[TS]
00:42:12
◼
►
login hit return I'll expect expect to
[TS]
00:42:15
◼
►
be taken there funny stuff that's what
[TS]
00:42:20
◼
►
my son gets around the internet he just
[TS]
00:42:21
◼
►
type stuff into Google yeah that's
[TS]
00:42:24
◼
►
that's pretty normal
[TS]
00:42:26
◼
►
baby that's pretty normal behavior I
[TS]
00:42:27
◼
►
mean if people you know to the extent
[TS]
00:42:30
◼
►
people are still using the Internet I
[TS]
00:42:32
◼
►
mean it's uh it it really shows the
[TS]
00:42:36
◼
►
extent to which Google is the sort of
[TS]
00:42:39
◼
►
linchpin for the Internet I mean yes you
[TS]
00:42:41
◼
►
can type your Elle's go to places but
[TS]
00:42:43
◼
►
the reality is in the way that people
[TS]
00:42:45
◼
►
actually experience online is is the
[TS]
00:42:48
◼
►
rule it's not just about like typing
[TS]
00:42:49
◼
►
Facebook into Google search page but
[TS]
00:42:52
◼
►
there's just so much stuff there's
[TS]
00:42:54
◼
►
there's so many things that it's
[TS]
00:42:58
◼
►
incomprehensible to to anyone even the
[TS]
00:43:01
◼
►
smartest person person on earth I mean
[TS]
00:43:03
◼
►
and Google what make schools so
[TS]
00:43:05
◼
►
brilliant is such a brilliant sort of
[TS]
00:43:07
◼
►
invention is that you know the old
[TS]
00:43:10
◼
►
search engines the more stuff there was
[TS]
00:43:13
◼
►
the more they bogged down because they
[TS]
00:43:14
◼
►
were you know I mean the original Yahoo
[TS]
00:43:16
◼
►
was literally a directory I mean
[TS]
00:43:17
◼
►
obviously the future search engines
[TS]
00:43:18
◼
►
weren't you were much more sophisticated
[TS]
00:43:20
◼
►
but Google by sort of building on top of
[TS]
00:43:23
◼
►
the link instead of building on top of
[TS]
00:43:24
◼
►
the pages themselves it well it turned
[TS]
00:43:27
◼
►
out when you got more links Google got
[TS]
00:43:29
◼
►
smarter and understood it better and
[TS]
00:43:31
◼
►
well when the web got larger everyone
[TS]
00:43:34
◼
►
else got worse except for Google which
[TS]
00:43:36
◼
►
actually got even better and and and
[TS]
00:43:38
◼
►
that's you know that's sort of the core
[TS]
00:43:40
◼
►
piece of the company's dominance and and
[TS]
00:43:43
◼
►
why they're the you know the winch pin
[TS]
00:43:46
◼
►
for for the entire Internet which brings
[TS]
00:43:50
◼
►
us to Windows 10 s and the way that on
[TS]
00:43:56
◼
►
Windows 10s you can't change your
[TS]
00:43:58
◼
►
default search engine you get Bing and
[TS]
00:44:00
◼
►
you like it
[TS]
00:44:01
◼
►
yeah and I think that's I I believe
[TS]
00:44:03
◼
►
they're giving away tennis to yes I am
[TS]
00:44:07
◼
►
so that's that's at the primary way that
[TS]
00:44:09
◼
►
they're going to I mean obviously
[TS]
00:44:10
◼
►
there's app sells as well but app cells
[TS]
00:44:13
◼
►
and and Bing searches and stuff like
[TS]
00:44:16
◼
►
that I think Bing is actually profitable
[TS]
00:44:18
◼
►
now or or very close to it it has been
[TS]
00:44:21
◼
►
for a little bit actually it should be
[TS]
00:44:23
◼
►
don't you think I mean it doesn't make
[TS]
00:44:25
◼
►
sense that they would keep they'd keep
[TS]
00:44:27
◼
►
losing money on it because I mean now
[TS]
00:44:28
◼
►
I'm still you know how much could it
[TS]
00:44:30
◼
►
cost other than labor you know yeah like
[TS]
00:44:33
◼
►
yeah it's where those things where it
[TS]
00:44:36
◼
►
it's not like a Winnie er sort of thing
[TS]
00:44:39
◼
►
where they make a little more money a
[TS]
00:44:41
◼
►
little more money and that now they're
[TS]
00:44:42
◼
►
profitable they're going like it's like
[TS]
00:44:43
◼
►
you're either losing a lot or you're
[TS]
00:44:45
◼
►
making a good amount like once you get
[TS]
00:44:48
◼
►
the sort of scale effects that are
[TS]
00:44:49
◼
►
they're kicking in uh yeah it but it's
[TS]
00:44:53
◼
►
still it's not actually growing pretty
[TS]
00:44:54
◼
►
decently I should I think five five
[TS]
00:44:56
◼
►
point three billion in revenue the last
[TS]
00:44:57
◼
►
fiscal year I should try it again I
[TS]
00:44:59
◼
►
haven't tried Bing in a while I done
[TS]
00:45:02
◼
►
different max are different devices at
[TS]
00:45:04
◼
►
any given time I sometimes switch to
[TS]
00:45:06
◼
►
DuckDuckGo which I admire is the plucky
[TS]
00:45:09
◼
►
little startup you know and their local
[TS]
00:45:12
◼
►
to Philly to its which it gives me a
[TS]
00:45:14
◼
►
little affection for them but I have to
[TS]
00:45:16
◼
►
admit that there there's a lot of times
[TS]
00:45:18
◼
►
with DuckDuckGo where it's semi-free
[TS]
00:45:22
◼
►
yeah if you're going to do it you at
[TS]
00:45:24
◼
►
some point in a week you're going to be
[TS]
00:45:26
◼
►
typing to look there's a trick they have
[TS]
00:45:27
◼
►
you can even type like GE exclamation
[TS]
00:45:29
◼
►
mark and it redoes the same query but
[TS]
00:45:31
◼
►
redirects you to Google because there's
[TS]
00:45:34
◼
►
just sometimes it's you know it's it's
[TS]
00:45:36
◼
►
not as good as Google search I mean they
[TS]
00:45:37
◼
►
do some really cool stuff and I like the
[TS]
00:45:39
◼
►
privacy aspect of it but it sounds good
[TS]
00:45:41
◼
►
but the thing that surprises me is I I
[TS]
00:45:43
◼
►
thought Microsoft might catch up to
[TS]
00:45:45
◼
►
Google search with Bing cuz it seems
[TS]
00:45:47
◼
►
like the sort of problem that Microsoft
[TS]
00:45:50
◼
►
would be able to solve like it never
[TS]
00:45:54
◼
►
surprises me that Microsoft software
[TS]
00:45:56
◼
►
never has is nice of a UI as Apple
[TS]
00:45:58
◼
►
software because it's institutionally
[TS]
00:46:00
◼
►
they're just they just don't have the
[TS]
00:46:01
◼
►
people who have the taste for that but
[TS]
00:46:04
◼
►
web search is really just you don't have
[TS]
00:46:07
◼
►
to have taste for that you know it's
[TS]
00:46:09
◼
►
it's a purely algorithmic challenge to
[TS]
00:46:12
◼
►
get that right well they're not quite
[TS]
00:46:14
◼
►
you need data I mean the
[TS]
00:46:15
◼
►
the thing with Google is it is a the
[TS]
00:46:19
◼
►
algorithm itself is far bit far beyond a
[TS]
00:46:23
◼
►
any one person could you know it was
[TS]
00:46:26
◼
►
designed by a person to start at this
[TS]
00:46:28
◼
►
point it's so complex and have loaded
[TS]
00:46:30
◼
►
and a lot of it is is just constant
[TS]
00:46:31
◼
►
iterative feedback so when people are
[TS]
00:46:33
◼
►
doing searches it not in that I'm not
[TS]
00:46:35
◼
►
about the individual I search is just as
[TS]
00:46:37
◼
►
a whole like which results are they
[TS]
00:46:39
◼
►
quick like Google wants the first the
[TS]
00:46:41
◼
►
proper results we the first result so
[TS]
00:46:43
◼
►
they are tracking which result you
[TS]
00:46:45
◼
►
actually click on where how far down you
[TS]
00:46:46
◼
►
go and and plus websites are optimizing
[TS]
00:46:50
◼
►
cells for Google and they and so by
[TS]
00:46:51
◼
►
crafty has to you know would attach on
[TS]
00:46:54
◼
►
to that but it's one of those situations
[TS]
00:46:55
◼
►
where thanks to the feedback loop that
[TS]
00:46:57
◼
►
comes from having the most data and the
[TS]
00:47:00
◼
►
most users and the most searches if two
[TS]
00:47:03
◼
►
identical search engines if one starts
[TS]
00:47:05
◼
►
at fifty one percent market share and
[TS]
00:47:07
◼
►
one starts at forty nine percent market
[TS]
00:47:08
◼
►
absent sort of any exterior force the
[TS]
00:47:12
◼
►
one with market share is going to get
[TS]
00:47:14
◼
►
better over time relative to the other
[TS]
00:47:16
◼
►
one it which means which and then when
[TS]
00:47:18
◼
►
it gets better that lets it get more
[TS]
00:47:20
◼
►
users because it's a better search
[TS]
00:47:21
◼
►
engine and then it gets even more data
[TS]
00:47:24
◼
►
relative to the competition so it even
[TS]
00:47:26
◼
►
has a bigger advantage so the reality is
[TS]
00:47:28
◼
►
is even Microsoft could have the
[TS]
00:47:30
◼
►
smartest sort of search folks in the
[TS]
00:47:31
◼
►
world but because it's a problem that's
[TS]
00:47:33
◼
►
not just about algorithm design it's
[TS]
00:47:36
◼
►
it's about the entire sort of system and
[TS]
00:47:38
◼
►
having it a feedback loop they will it's
[TS]
00:47:41
◼
►
very difficult to to ever catch up
[TS]
00:47:45
◼
►
absent some sort of like incredible you
[TS]
00:47:48
◼
►
know breakthrough you can't buy your way
[TS]
00:47:49
◼
►
out and all there's no way to write that
[TS]
00:47:52
◼
►
it doesn't get you there that's
[TS]
00:47:53
◼
►
interesting I think your that to me has
[TS]
00:47:55
◼
►
to be the explanation because I just
[TS]
00:47:57
◼
►
don't think that I don't think the
[TS]
00:47:59
◼
►
problem is that Microsoft doesn't have
[TS]
00:48:02
◼
►
the intelligence in the engineering to
[TS]
00:48:04
◼
►
do it I you know and they obviously will
[TS]
00:48:06
◼
►
had no problem spending money on it you
[TS]
00:48:09
◼
►
know for years famously they were losing
[TS]
00:48:10
◼
►
billions on bing I think that's just it
[TS]
00:48:14
◼
►
though that Google so popular that it it
[TS]
00:48:16
◼
►
you know that their popularity feeds
[TS]
00:48:19
◼
►
upon their accuracy right if there are
[TS]
00:48:21
◼
►
seeds upon their popularity and this is
[TS]
00:48:24
◼
►
where Google is in some respects it's
[TS]
00:48:26
◼
►
like a Facebook effect but it's like
[TS]
00:48:28
◼
►
there there is
[TS]
00:48:29
◼
►
sort of network effect but it's not
[TS]
00:48:30
◼
►
necessary about people per se it's the
[TS]
00:48:32
◼
►
interaction between people and the sort
[TS]
00:48:34
◼
►
of data they generate but you get the
[TS]
00:48:36
◼
►
same sort of idea where the larger
[TS]
00:48:38
◼
►
service like because did I think I
[TS]
00:48:40
◼
►
always write a lot of about user
[TS]
00:48:42
◼
►
experience and the point I always have
[TS]
00:48:45
◼
►
to sometimes forget to make this and
[TS]
00:48:46
◼
►
when I forget to make this point I was
[TS]
00:48:48
◼
►
regretted because I get a bunch people
[TS]
00:48:49
◼
►
ask me you know pointing asking
[TS]
00:48:50
◼
►
questions user experience does not mean
[TS]
00:48:52
◼
►
user interface user interface is an
[TS]
00:48:54
◼
►
important part of the user experience
[TS]
00:48:56
◼
►
and is critical you know for something
[TS]
00:48:58
◼
►
like a phone for example that's in your
[TS]
00:49:00
◼
►
hand you're interacting with and
[TS]
00:49:02
◼
►
actually you know we talked about you
[TS]
00:49:04
◼
►
know we can stuff in Congress in a
[TS]
00:49:05
◼
►
little bit but the user experience is
[TS]
00:49:08
◼
►
the totality of the experience which
[TS]
00:49:10
◼
►
means you know having better search
[TS]
00:49:12
◼
►
results means it's a better experience
[TS]
00:49:14
◼
►
having more friends on Facebook more
[TS]
00:49:16
◼
►
family on Facebook not having to try to
[TS]
00:49:18
◼
►
recruit people to get on there means
[TS]
00:49:21
◼
►
it's a better it's a better experience
[TS]
00:49:22
◼
►
that has nothing to do with the
[TS]
00:49:23
◼
►
interface per se and these aspects of
[TS]
00:49:26
◼
►
the experience are they build on
[TS]
00:49:28
◼
►
themselves and this is why you have
[TS]
00:49:29
◼
►
these companies that are so dominant and
[TS]
00:49:31
◼
►
what makes it so tricky and I've been
[TS]
00:49:33
◼
►
writing a lot about this you know over
[TS]
00:49:35
◼
►
the last years so these companies are so
[TS]
00:49:37
◼
►
powerful because of these sort of data
[TS]
00:49:39
◼
►
effects and these network effects and
[TS]
00:49:41
◼
►
they're powerful in a way that's
[TS]
00:49:42
◼
►
actually better for the consumer like
[TS]
00:49:44
◼
►
google is popular because it's better
[TS]
00:49:47
◼
►
which means it gets more users and when
[TS]
00:49:49
◼
►
it gets more users it actually becomes
[TS]
00:49:51
◼
►
even even better which means it's it's
[TS]
00:49:53
◼
►
so there is it's positive on the user
[TS]
00:49:55
◼
►
perspective and same a Facebook it has
[TS]
00:49:58
◼
►
the most user so it more people join it
[TS]
00:50:00
◼
►
because it's there and the more people
[TS]
00:50:02
◼
►
join it now it has more users and you
[TS]
00:50:03
◼
►
get the same sort of feedback loop where
[TS]
00:50:06
◼
►
people choose it because it's better and
[TS]
00:50:08
◼
►
that sort of makes from a anti-trust
[TS]
00:50:11
◼
►
perspective that makes sort of US
[TS]
00:50:13
◼
►
antitrust like fall completely apart
[TS]
00:50:15
◼
►
because it's based on consumer benefit
[TS]
00:50:18
◼
►
and there's actually they're providing a
[TS]
00:50:19
◼
►
ton of consumer benefit that's why
[TS]
00:50:20
◼
►
they're winning right
[TS]
00:50:24
◼
►
all right as a summary of like 15
[TS]
00:50:26
◼
►
scenarios I've been writing about did
[TS]
00:50:30
◼
►
you see the story that in the verge had
[TS]
00:50:33
◼
►
it that the surface laptop now the most
[TS]
00:50:36
◼
►
like unique thing about these surface
[TS]
00:50:38
◼
►
laptops that they announced is that the
[TS]
00:50:39
◼
►
other than the keyboard and a trackpad
[TS]
00:50:41
◼
►
that what you touch on the front face is
[TS]
00:50:44
◼
►
like a like a soft touch leather like
[TS]
00:50:48
◼
►
fake leather type thing but it's like
[TS]
00:50:50
◼
►
it's called which looks awful to me but
[TS]
00:50:53
◼
►
how Cantara
[TS]
00:50:54
◼
►
apparently a lot of carmakers use it
[TS]
00:50:57
◼
►
high-end car makers well I don't want to
[TS]
00:50:59
◼
►
judge it on photos but from the photos
[TS]
00:51:01
◼
►
to me it looks terrible I would not want
[TS]
00:51:04
◼
►
that I wouldn't if I had the choice when
[TS]
00:51:07
◼
►
buying a laptop whether I just have the
[TS]
00:51:09
◼
►
bare aluminum surface or like no pun
[TS]
00:51:13
◼
►
intended surface or have it covered with
[TS]
00:51:15
◼
►
this stuff if without having seen it in
[TS]
00:51:17
◼
►
person I would zero hesitation I would
[TS]
00:51:19
◼
►
just say just give me the aluminum this
[TS]
00:51:20
◼
►
seems like a disaster yeah but I saw
[TS]
00:51:24
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people excoriating Microsoft for having
[TS]
00:51:27
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said told the verge that you need to
[TS]
00:51:32
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treat it like a like a luxury purse or
[TS]
00:51:36
◼
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something like that or a luxury handbag
[TS]
00:51:39
◼
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and I think people took that as meaning
[TS]
00:51:43
◼
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that it's like dainty and that it's
[TS]
00:51:46
◼
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you're like you have to treat it
[TS]
00:51:47
◼
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preciously I think that's how people
[TS]
00:51:50
◼
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reacted to this like the headline I
[TS]
00:51:51
◼
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think Microsoft says the fabric on the
[TS]
00:51:53
◼
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surface laptop should be cared for like
[TS]
00:51:55
◼
►
a luxury handbag and I think the verge
[TS]
00:51:59
◼
►
did a disservice with that headline
[TS]
00:52:01
◼
►
because it's not really that's that
[TS]
00:52:03
◼
►
that's not a quote the only quote in
[TS]
00:52:05
◼
►
that headline is the word luxury here's
[TS]
00:52:09
◼
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the actual statement from Microsoft I
[TS]
00:52:11
◼
►
hate this use of the word luxury just
[TS]
00:52:14
◼
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like anything luxury that you buy like
[TS]
00:52:16
◼
►
that it should be luxurious or something
[TS]
00:52:19
◼
►
or any luxury product that you buy but
[TS]
00:52:21
◼
►
it still it seems self-serving for them
[TS]
00:52:23
◼
►
to describe it as luxury but anyway just
[TS]
00:52:25
◼
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like anything luxury that you buy like
[TS]
00:52:28
◼
►
great handbags or a pair of shoes or
[TS]
00:52:30
◼
►
even expensive cars there is a care
[TS]
00:52:32
◼
►
that's needed for the device the so I
[TS]
00:52:37
◼
►
you know I think Note has to be some
[TS]
00:52:39
◼
►
care for but I think the thing that
[TS]
00:52:41
◼
►
people aren't maybe maybe now you and I
[TS]
00:52:43
◼
►
understand it with with our spouses but
[TS]
00:52:47
◼
►
you can get like there are handbags that
[TS]
00:52:51
◼
►
that are might be you know from a luxury
[TS]
00:52:53
◼
►
brand and they're not really dainty
[TS]
00:52:55
◼
►
they're actually the opposite they're
[TS]
00:52:57
◼
►
actually very they're they're built to
[TS]
00:53:00
◼
►
last for decades you know and yep and
[TS]
00:53:03
◼
►
you know you do have to treat leather
[TS]
00:53:04
◼
►
and if you get it wet you have to take
[TS]
00:53:05
◼
►
care of it right away and stuff like
[TS]
00:53:06
◼
►
that but they actually hold up
[TS]
00:53:09
◼
►
surprisingly well they're not dainty
[TS]
00:53:11
◼
►
little Faberge eggs that are actually
[TS]
00:53:13
◼
►
much more rugged in some ways than than
[TS]
00:53:16
◼
►
typical lower-cost bags so that
[TS]
00:53:20
◼
►
sometimes you like as long as you buy a
[TS]
00:53:22
◼
►
nice bag or some nice pair of shoes that
[TS]
00:53:25
◼
►
are luxury but you buy them because they
[TS]
00:53:28
◼
►
last way longer and hold up much better
[TS]
00:53:31
◼
►
and age much more attractively than
[TS]
00:53:33
◼
►
something that's that's lower costs
[TS]
00:53:35
◼
►
right a difference it was a weird
[TS]
00:53:39
◼
►
Twitter account I was into for a while
[TS]
00:53:40
◼
►
was it was one of those ones that was
[TS]
00:53:42
◼
►
interesting only when it was anonymous
[TS]
00:53:43
◼
►
and then when somebody figured out who
[TS]
00:53:45
◼
►
the guy was there's no fun anymore
[TS]
00:53:47
◼
►
GS elevator remember that it was oh yeah
[TS]
00:53:50
◼
►
yeah it was so so put it was written
[TS]
00:53:52
◼
►
from the perspective of stuff overheard
[TS]
00:53:54
◼
►
in the elevators at Goldman Sachs and it
[TS]
00:53:58
◼
►
was often hilarious often very very rude
[TS]
00:54:00
◼
►
sort of from the that very lewd that bro
[TS]
00:54:04
◼
►
a alpha male banker mentality um but I
[TS]
00:54:10
◼
►
remember the guy who wrote it had liked
[TS]
00:54:12
◼
►
it was like a he also had like articles
[TS]
00:54:15
◼
►
I was just like alright so you got a job
[TS]
00:54:16
◼
►
and an investment bank here's what did
[TS]
00:54:18
◼
►
you know your kid out of college here's
[TS]
00:54:20
◼
►
what here's the clothes that you need to
[TS]
00:54:22
◼
►
buy and one of his things was that you
[TS]
00:54:24
◼
►
should get like I forget I forget if you
[TS]
00:54:28
◼
►
recommended Gucci or what but you know
[TS]
00:54:29
◼
►
something like get like a nice pair of
[TS]
00:54:30
◼
►
Gucci shoes yes there's $800 or $700 but
[TS]
00:54:34
◼
►
they will last you way longer than 10
[TS]
00:54:38
◼
►
pairs of $200 shoes if you take care of
[TS]
00:54:41
◼
►
right yep you know there's obviously
[TS]
00:54:44
◼
►
some things that are luxury priced that
[TS]
00:54:45
◼
►
are not you know that you're just you
[TS]
00:54:48
◼
►
know like a sports car like if you buy a
[TS]
00:54:49
◼
►
Lamborghini you're just pissing money
[TS]
00:54:51
◼
►
it's not really it you're not really
[TS]
00:54:54
◼
►
buying it for the value of I mean the
[TS]
00:54:58
◼
►
car is valuable but it's not like you're
[TS]
00:55:00
◼
►
not going to sink tens of thousands of
[TS]
00:55:01
◼
►
dollars in it maintenance as you go like
[TS]
00:55:03
◼
►
nobody buys a Lamborghini because it's
[TS]
00:55:05
◼
►
worth it's a good investment reliability
[TS]
00:55:08
◼
►
wise compared to a Honda right yep we're
[TS]
00:55:12
◼
►
but there are some things like a nice
[TS]
00:55:14
◼
►
shoe or a nice belt or something like
[TS]
00:55:15
◼
►
that where you actually yes you're
[TS]
00:55:17
◼
►
paying a lot of money but it's actually
[TS]
00:55:19
◼
►
might be you might be paying five times
[TS]
00:55:20
◼
►
more than what you're used to but you're
[TS]
00:55:22
◼
►
actually getting like ten times better
[TS]
00:55:23
◼
►
product I don't think that the surface
[TS]
00:55:26
◼
►
laptop is like that though I don't know
[TS]
00:55:28
◼
►
yeah yeah I went to that's not I went to
[TS]
00:55:31
◼
►
use that word choice and yeah that now
[TS]
00:55:33
◼
►
that I'm looking at that just like
[TS]
00:55:35
◼
►
anything luxury that's driving me up the
[TS]
00:55:37
◼
►
wall that's that's terrible they have to
[TS]
00:55:39
◼
►
they have to have tested this I know
[TS]
00:55:41
◼
►
it's like last week on the showed Renee
[TS]
00:55:44
◼
►
and I were joking about that the iPad
[TS]
00:55:45
◼
►
our iPod that Kate I think was like an
[TS]
00:55:48
◼
►
iPod Nano that was super easily
[TS]
00:55:51
◼
►
scratched do you remember that was the
[TS]
00:55:53
◼
►
original the original nano yeah it was I
[TS]
00:55:56
◼
►
almost in a you know I would love is one
[TS]
00:55:58
◼
►
of those like behind the scenes things I
[TS]
00:56:00
◼
►
would love to someday get that story out
[TS]
00:56:02
◼
►
of Apple as to how in the hell did they
[TS]
00:56:05
◼
►
make tens of thousands of these things
[TS]
00:56:08
◼
►
or a half a million of these things out
[TS]
00:56:09
◼
►
of a plastic that you scratch with your
[TS]
00:56:11
◼
►
fingernail like what the hell are they
[TS]
00:56:14
◼
►
thinking how did that not get caught in
[TS]
00:56:15
◼
►
testing I don't mean if you saw one like
[TS]
00:56:19
◼
►
they and with in not long I mean they
[TS]
00:56:22
◼
►
would be just completely destroyed like
[TS]
00:56:23
◼
►
to the point where you could barely even
[TS]
00:56:25
◼
►
read the screen we in the whole it was
[TS]
00:56:27
◼
►
the whole front not just the screen like
[TS]
00:56:28
◼
►
the entire surface would be right would
[TS]
00:56:30
◼
►
be just completely yeah all shredded up
[TS]
00:56:33
◼
►
yeah it's hard to remember compared to I
[TS]
00:56:35
◼
►
phones where everything is so much
[TS]
00:56:37
◼
►
closer to the surface now but with the
[TS]
00:56:40
◼
►
iPods even with the Nano there was sort
[TS]
00:56:42
◼
►
of a thick layer of screen or not even
[TS]
00:56:45
◼
►
screen but just plastic on the whole
[TS]
00:56:47
◼
►
front of all these models or a bunch of
[TS]
00:56:50
◼
►
them I remember we got demand when I was
[TS]
00:56:53
◼
►
working at Giant I forget we hit some
[TS]
00:56:56
◼
►
kind of milestone or something and so
[TS]
00:56:57
◼
►
everybody in the company got one as a
[TS]
00:57:01
◼
►
and in our company like Chad I forget we
[TS]
00:57:06
◼
►
even used for chat it wasn't slack
[TS]
00:57:08
◼
►
obviously wasn't around but the
[TS]
00:57:09
◼
►
equivalent of slacks IRC I wasn't IRC
[TS]
00:57:12
◼
►
that I forget what we were using but uh
[TS]
00:57:13
◼
►
hip hip hip tin and that was a long
[TS]
00:57:16
◼
►
title - yeah I don't remember uh I don't
[TS]
00:57:19
◼
►
know why I'm trying to bank on it but we
[TS]
00:57:20
◼
►
had like a company-wide chat who
[TS]
00:57:21
◼
►
everybody got these in we're like
[TS]
00:57:22
◼
►
everybody was you know having fun with
[TS]
00:57:24
◼
►
their new iPod in and it took like an
[TS]
00:57:26
◼
►
hour for people to be like holy shit
[TS]
00:57:28
◼
►
it's mines all scratched up yep anyway
[TS]
00:57:32
◼
►
it doesn't five man has already been 12
[TS]
00:57:35
◼
►
years I can't help but think that
[TS]
00:57:36
◼
►
Microsoft had to have like stress tested
[TS]
00:57:39
◼
►
these things with actual sweaty palms in
[TS]
00:57:42
◼
►
you know warm you know use it you know
[TS]
00:57:45
◼
►
use this for a while with you know maybe
[TS]
00:57:47
◼
►
have us in a warm room with somebody who
[TS]
00:57:50
◼
►
sweats through their palms or something
[TS]
00:57:51
◼
►
right these things can't just pick up
[TS]
00:57:53
◼
►
ugly palm sweat stains yeah I mean I'm
[TS]
00:57:57
◼
►
not that's right I want to admit to this
[TS]
00:57:59
◼
►
but my even my MacBook is always the
[TS]
00:58:03
◼
►
keyboard and that all ends up just
[TS]
00:58:05
◼
►
totally filthy it's pretty disgusting
[TS]
00:58:06
◼
►
actually I should probably clean it yeah
[TS]
00:58:09
◼
►
you probably should that's Crispin I
[TS]
00:58:11
◼
►
don't know I I just doesn't see my the
[TS]
00:58:14
◼
►
more I think about it this just doesn't
[TS]
00:58:15
◼
►
seem like a good idea I don't know it
[TS]
00:58:17
◼
►
just seems it too many laptops get too
[TS]
00:58:20
◼
►
grungy as is as as as easy to clean a
[TS]
00:58:23
◼
►
surface as aluminum is I mean it's
[TS]
00:58:26
◼
►
pretty hard to think of something that's
[TS]
00:58:27
◼
►
easier to clean than that it everyone
[TS]
00:58:29
◼
►
just wants everyone just wants them to
[TS]
00:58:30
◼
►
make a nice laptop that's all they want
[TS]
00:58:32
◼
►
just a regular they like but so they did
[TS]
00:58:34
◼
►
the surface book thing over they did the
[TS]
00:58:36
◼
►
surface and the surface book thing and
[TS]
00:58:37
◼
►
now there's a laptop but yeah it has it
[TS]
00:58:39
◼
►
has did but I mean there's I know
[TS]
00:58:42
◼
►
there's lots of politics and competing
[TS]
00:58:43
◼
►
with the OEMs all sort of stuff but but
[TS]
00:58:47
◼
►
yeah I'd rather get it I'd rather get a
[TS]
00:58:50
◼
►
think pad with the nub anyway I know I
[TS]
00:58:55
◼
►
know I mean I think it's it's so
[TS]
00:58:57
◼
►
different
[TS]
00:58:58
◼
►
I don't know didn't they used in the old
[TS]
00:58:59
◼
►
days it was like the nub was the only
[TS]
00:59:00
◼
►
thing right they didn't even have a
[TS]
00:59:01
◼
►
trackpad yep it used to be just just to
[TS]
00:59:04
◼
►
Justin up but not yeah they are both now
[TS]
00:59:06
◼
►
that's almost like an apple like
[TS]
00:59:07
◼
►
devotion like apples devotion to the
[TS]
00:59:10
◼
►
single button Mouse
[TS]
00:59:11
◼
►
you know in the world where everybody
[TS]
00:59:12
◼
►
went the other way the old IBM ThinkPads
[TS]
00:59:15
◼
►
devotion to the little red nub yeah well
[TS]
00:59:19
◼
►
I mean if you there's a lot of people
[TS]
00:59:20
◼
►
that I mean not like as relatively
[TS]
00:59:22
◼
►
speaking out a ton but there are you
[TS]
00:59:25
◼
►
know people like it I mean once you is
[TS]
00:59:26
◼
►
if you're used to it it's one of those
[TS]
00:59:28
◼
►
things where if you really like it like
[TS]
00:59:30
◼
►
why would you you're gonna just keep I
[TS]
00:59:34
◼
►
think that you drive even think about it
[TS]
00:59:36
◼
►
and I think part of the problem too is
[TS]
00:59:37
◼
►
this you know touchpads have always been
[TS]
00:59:39
◼
►
so terrible on Windows right that
[TS]
00:59:41
◼
►
showdown that was the big reason yeah
[TS]
00:59:43
◼
►
those are the big reasons that I when I
[TS]
00:59:44
◼
►
rise using OS that Microsoft I used to
[TS]
00:59:47
◼
►
think pad and that was the biggest
[TS]
00:59:50
◼
►
reason I started using it up in the
[TS]
00:59:52
◼
►
first place that the trackpad was
[TS]
00:59:53
◼
►
atrocious but then you know you use it
[TS]
00:59:55
◼
►
and you actually grow to really really
[TS]
00:59:57
◼
►
like it I mean the the not having to uh
[TS]
00:59:57
◼
►
like it I mean the the not having to uh
[TS]
01:00:00
◼
►
um I mean you're absolutely used to it
[TS]
01:00:01
◼
►
moving you move your hand much on on a
[TS]
01:00:04
◼
►
um on a computer but on a MacBook but
[TS]
01:00:09
◼
►
just having right there what you're used
[TS]
01:00:10
◼
►
to it's it's nice yeah it's great it's
[TS]
01:00:12
◼
►
given them an actual like
[TS]
01:00:13
◼
►
differentiation it's it in a world you
[TS]
01:00:16
◼
►
know like the big problem that PC OEMs
[TS]
01:00:18
◼
►
have is that what what's to keep you
[TS]
01:00:20
◼
►
know let's say you sell somebody an HP
[TS]
01:00:22
◼
►
laptop once they keep them from buying a
[TS]
01:00:24
◼
►
different brand the next time they buy
[TS]
01:00:26
◼
►
one nothing really
[TS]
01:00:27
◼
►
it's yep and the little red nubbin is
[TS]
01:00:30
◼
►
actually a little bit of a
[TS]
01:00:31
◼
►
differentiator if they have the the
[TS]
01:00:35
◼
►
muscle memory port yep I always thought
[TS]
01:00:39
◼
►
they were weird anyway what else do want
[TS]
01:00:47
◼
►
to talk about before we get to that what
[TS]
01:00:49
◼
►
Oh to to the to the WeChat thing yeah uh
[TS]
01:00:53
◼
►
well I think I actually think we've
[TS]
01:00:55
◼
►
through talk about various things have
[TS]
01:00:57
◼
►
have set the stage set set the stage
[TS]
01:01:00
◼
►
nicely so um oh yeah what do you think
[TS]
01:01:04
◼
►
about the two new echoes there's the oh
[TS]
01:01:06
◼
►
yeah there's the camera one and then
[TS]
01:01:08
◼
►
there's the the one with the screen well
[TS]
01:01:09
◼
►
let's talk about that after I thank
[TS]
01:01:11
◼
►
another one of our friends it's our good
[TS]
01:01:13
◼
►
friend just a new sponsor first time I
[TS]
01:01:15
◼
►
really like this company though Pingdom
[TS]
01:01:18
◼
►
p ing do em some it's a service for
[TS]
01:01:23
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monitoring web sites and servers you can
[TS]
01:01:25
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go to wpm calm /l p / talk-show Pingdom
[TS]
01:01:32
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comm /l p / talk-show and have a nice
[TS]
01:01:36
◼
►
little landing page there for towed
[TS]
01:01:38
◼
►
listeners of the show address just to
[TS]
01:01:40
◼
►
you you get a 14-day free trial and when
[TS]
01:01:43
◼
►
you enter the code the talk show a check
[TS]
01:01:46
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out you get 20% off your first invoice
[TS]
01:01:49
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that's a big deal 20% being that makes
[TS]
01:01:51
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the web faster and more reliable for
[TS]
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everyone by offering powerful easy to
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01:01:55
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01:02:00
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01:02:01
◼
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great so you got a web server you can
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just point something to it and they can
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like simulate visits it's not just like
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a ping to the server even though that's
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their name but they can actually
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simulate an actual visit to the website
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and you can write tests to make sure
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certain
[TS]
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components and modern websites have so
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many things where you're drawing things
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from multiple services to to make your
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website where it's not just one server
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that can go down there's all sorts of
[TS]
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fail points along the way and you can
[TS]
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write these tests with Pingdom to test
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if everything that you expect to be
[TS]
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working is working and when it's not
[TS]
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they'll notify you instantly Pingdom
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detects more than 13 million outages
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more than 400,000 outages every day Wow
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01:02:43
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and you know if you ever notice stuff
[TS]
01:02:46
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actually breaks on the internet all the
[TS]
01:02:48
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time here's a way to find out if your
[TS]
01:02:49
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stuff broke a really great service used
[TS]
01:02:53
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by a whole bunch of big names if you go
[TS]
01:02:55
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to their website I told you Pingdom calm
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/lp slash talk show and just look at the
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big names that use Pingdom for
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monitoring their service servers and
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websites it's amazing so go there and
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check them out and they will know you
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01:03:16
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my thanks to Pingdom great great service
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01:03:20
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yeah so Amazon they have two new what do
[TS]
01:03:26
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they call them echo products they both
[TS]
01:03:27
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yeah there's an echo look which is the
[TS]
01:03:30
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just a camera and then there's the in
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01:03:32
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bill met they're pitching it for putting
[TS]
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in your closet right or wardrobe and
[TS]
01:03:38
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then the echo the bigger probably the
[TS]
01:03:41
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one they made a bigger splash about was
[TS]
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the echo show which is a has a screen
[TS]
01:03:46
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pen screen this is now now echo can show
[TS]
01:03:48
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you things I believe is the tagline
[TS]
01:03:50
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right and obviously also has a camera
[TS]
01:03:52
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since it does like photo video calls
[TS]
01:03:56
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right which I actually think is is the
[TS]
01:03:59
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most the most interesting part of it and
[TS]
01:04:02
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it really featured very heavily in the
[TS]
01:04:05
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sort of the introductory video yeah I
[TS]
01:04:09
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have to I have to watch that again but
[TS]
01:04:10
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it did seem like it's almost more like
[TS]
01:04:13
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the bigger announcement is that they're
[TS]
01:04:15
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doing their own they don't have a name
[TS]
01:04:18
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for it though right there's no they
[TS]
01:04:19
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don't have like a name like FaceTime
[TS]
01:04:21
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right no it's just it's just uh yeah and
[TS]
01:04:24
◼
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it's not just the echo show because they
[TS]
01:04:27
◼
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updated the the Alexa app and so you can
[TS]
01:04:31
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go between phones and the echo show and
[TS]
01:04:34
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or or echo showed echo show I don't know
[TS]
01:04:39
◼
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for sure if you can go phone to phone
[TS]
01:04:41
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but I presume you I presume you can
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01:04:43
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yeah that's not about yesterday I wrote
[TS]
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that I presume you can and that's gonna
[TS]
01:04:46
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look it up and then I backed it up right
[TS]
01:04:49
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but yeah but it but it is basically a
[TS]
01:04:51
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FaceTime competitor without being called
[TS]
01:04:53
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a FaceTime competitor but that's
[TS]
01:04:55
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certainly what it is well it's because
[TS]
01:04:57
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it would so that the the trick to the
[TS]
01:05:01
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whole thing is that they've updated the
[TS]
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the phone app for I guess Android and
[TS]
01:05:05
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iOS I know the iOS once updated where
[TS]
01:05:08
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both for you to have one of these calls
[TS]
01:05:11
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with somebody who doesn't own an echo or
[TS]
01:05:15
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you know what good who would want to use
[TS]
01:05:18
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this if you had to be in the room where
[TS]
01:05:20
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your echo is to get the call thank it's
[TS]
01:05:23
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like yours all of a sudden you're back
[TS]
01:05:24
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to like landline days where you've got a
[TS]
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quick run to the kitchen to take a phone
[TS]
01:05:28
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call that that's not gonna fly but well
[TS]
01:05:32
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yeah but I mean I remember all the I
[TS]
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think the with the echo first first came
[TS]
01:05:39
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along you know it was it had in the
[TS]
01:05:42
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original interactive video which
[TS]
01:05:44
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unfortunately taken down but it was even
[TS]
01:05:47
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it was super corny and I'm a rock with
[TS]
01:05:49
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made fun of it but actually I kind of
[TS]
01:05:51
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liked it because it was and you can see
[TS]
01:05:53
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the same thing in the new echo show
[TS]
01:05:55
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video which is it's very sort of there's
[TS]
01:05:59
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no like fancy like marketing commercial
[TS]
01:06:02
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stuff going on here it's very
[TS]
01:06:03
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straightforward like showing people
[TS]
01:06:05
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explicit use cases for this product and
[TS]
01:06:08
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people go through use cases like the dad
[TS]
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is changing the baby's diaper and he's
[TS]
01:06:11
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ordering new diapers like it's not
[TS]
01:06:13
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subtle at all but I kind of like that
[TS]
01:06:14
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like it's you're not limited to a
[TS]
01:06:16
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30-second grab you're not trying to
[TS]
01:06:18
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instill sort of I think it's a mistake a
[TS]
01:06:21
◼
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lot of marketers in tech have
[TS]
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traditionally made is they've they hire
[TS]
01:06:25
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these branding agency especially in the
[TS]
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early attack these Brian agencies that
[TS]
01:06:28
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we're used to doing like consumer goods
[TS]
01:06:30
◼
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because we were packaged goods and there
[TS]
01:06:31
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it's all about building sort of brand
[TS]
01:06:33
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affinity because the goal is when
[TS]
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someone's in a store and they're faced
[TS]
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with like 15 options for crackers that
[TS]
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they choose
[TS]
01:06:41
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one or they or Joe or might be they
[TS]
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choose one and they don't really know
[TS]
01:06:45
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why they chose it they just they just do
[TS]
01:06:47
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and that's the payoff of all that
[TS]
01:06:49
◼
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advertising and branding and all that
[TS]
01:06:50
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all that that sort of stuff with with
[TS]
01:06:52
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tech products it's much more of a
[TS]
01:06:54
◼
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deliberate choice so to use sort of
[TS]
01:06:57
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brand type marketing I think is much
[TS]
01:07:01
◼
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inferior to just showing it showing how
[TS]
01:07:04
◼
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it works I mean this is something that
[TS]
01:07:06
◼
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somebody my favorite Apple ads actually
[TS]
01:07:08
◼
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were the original iPhone ads not the
[TS]
01:07:11
◼
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first one like the holo hello at the
[TS]
01:07:12
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Academy Awards but now all the ads after
[TS]
01:07:14
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that for the first year they were just
[TS]
01:07:16
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showing people using the phone the ones
[TS]
01:07:18
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were they know that Bob Bircher I think
[TS]
01:07:20
◼
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is nameless right yeah at the very end
[TS]
01:07:22
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the phone with the phone and ring so
[TS]
01:07:24
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they show them reading their times they
[TS]
01:07:26
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show them uh you know scrolling playing
[TS]
01:07:28
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a game or not playing a game but doing
[TS]
01:07:30
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stuff on the phone that you could do on
[TS]
01:07:31
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the phone and then active at the very
[TS]
01:07:33
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under commercial and it's the same one
[TS]
01:07:34
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every time the phone would ring say oh
[TS]
01:07:36
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and it's a phone and it was so effective
[TS]
01:07:38
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both in explaining what the iPhone is
[TS]
01:07:41
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they're also teaching people how to use
[TS]
01:07:42
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it it was some of my favorite
[TS]
01:07:45
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commercials just because I think the way
[TS]
01:07:47
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they really it was a new way of doing
[TS]
01:07:51
◼
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commercials I think it was much better
[TS]
01:07:53
◼
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for a tech product and uh something I
[TS]
01:07:56
◼
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was always very frustrated by when I was
[TS]
01:07:58
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at Microsoft because I thought they were
[TS]
01:08:00
◼
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so so many the commercials were in this
[TS]
01:08:03
◼
►
CPG branding mindset when you're selling
[TS]
01:08:06
◼
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a very different kind of product yeah
[TS]
01:08:08
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yeah those I phone commercials were
[TS]
01:08:10
◼
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brilliant because they were fast they
[TS]
01:08:12
◼
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when they were 30-second spots but they
[TS]
01:08:13
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they showed things and they I you know
[TS]
01:08:17
◼
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they showed it they showed the product
[TS]
01:08:18
◼
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but David was like real things and
[TS]
01:08:20
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they're like look you maybe you don't
[TS]
01:08:21
◼
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believe it maybe you hear somebody
[TS]
01:08:22
◼
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saying you know you can get Maps on your
[TS]
01:08:24
◼
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phone now and on these iPhones you can
[TS]
01:08:26
◼
►
get a usable map but they'd show it they
[TS]
01:08:29
◼
►
say here look type Starbucks and hit up
[TS]
01:08:32
◼
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one button very easy just says you know
[TS]
01:08:35
◼
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like search or whatever and then a map
[TS]
01:08:37
◼
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shows up showing how far you are from
[TS]
01:08:38
◼
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Starbucks or whatever the example wasn't
[TS]
01:08:40
◼
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a commercial yep yep exactly yeah the
[TS]
01:08:42
◼
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map one was it was it was it was a big
[TS]
01:08:43
◼
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one and that was any it was so
[TS]
01:08:45
◼
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immediately became apparent what the
[TS]
01:08:47
◼
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value was to people right right yeah and
[TS]
01:08:50
◼
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yet this is something you can it's this
[TS]
01:08:52
◼
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is something you can understand like
[TS]
01:08:54
◼
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Apple on
[TS]
01:08:55
◼
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stood that did it sounds funny but it's
[TS]
01:08:58
◼
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the thing that I think a lot of tech
[TS]
01:09:00
◼
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people even tech marketers overlook is
[TS]
01:09:02
◼
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that you tell a lot of people okay
[TS]
01:09:04
◼
►
you've got a cell phone we know that we
[TS]
01:09:08
◼
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know you're frustrated by it we know
[TS]
01:09:09
◼
►
that you probably can't figure out how
[TS]
01:09:11
◼
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to do anything on it other than make the
[TS]
01:09:13
◼
►
phone calls we're trying to sell you a
[TS]
01:09:15
◼
►
phone that does browses the web gets
[TS]
01:09:19
◼
►
your email has maps let you watch
[TS]
01:09:23
◼
►
youtube videos but trust us none of this
[TS]
01:09:26
◼
►
is more complicated and making phone
[TS]
01:09:27
◼
►
calls is even easier than it was on your
[TS]
01:09:29
◼
►
old phone yep
[TS]
01:09:31
◼
►
yeah is that it's exactly right so I
[TS]
01:09:33
◼
►
mean these these at these Amazon echo
[TS]
01:09:35
◼
►
spots are not like that there and
[TS]
01:09:38
◼
►
they're not nearly as you know high
[TS]
01:09:40
◼
►
producing they're still pretty corny but
[TS]
01:09:42
◼
►
if you're showing a product a two
[TS]
01:09:45
◼
►
hundred dollar product and in the
[TS]
01:09:47
◼
►
original echo I think was the same it
[TS]
01:09:48
◼
►
was $99 for Prime members but people are
[TS]
01:09:50
◼
►
on your you're on the web you have
[TS]
01:09:52
◼
►
infinite space you can show as short or
[TS]
01:09:54
◼
►
long a video as you want you're not
[TS]
01:09:56
◼
►
limited to 30 seconds and people are
[TS]
01:09:58
◼
►
being deliberate about their choice why
[TS]
01:10:01
◼
►
not take advantage of that and actually
[TS]
01:10:02
◼
►
show how this product might be useful
[TS]
01:10:05
◼
►
and and I think that's something they've
[TS]
01:10:07
◼
►
done pretty consistently with these and
[TS]
01:10:08
◼
►
and I think I think it's smart I think
[TS]
01:10:11
◼
►
it's a much better way to think about
[TS]
01:10:12
◼
►
you know marketing your product because
[TS]
01:10:16
◼
►
you're marketing a different kind of
[TS]
01:10:17
◼
►
product in a different context
[TS]
01:10:18
◼
►
particular for Amazon because it's you
[TS]
01:10:20
◼
►
know it's it's on there they have a big
[TS]
01:10:22
◼
►
website that they can use yeah I know
[TS]
01:10:24
◼
►
that the I'm going to get the name wrong
[TS]
01:10:27
◼
►
I can't remember these right because
[TS]
01:10:28
◼
►
there's weird like the echo show and I
[TS]
01:10:30
◼
►
could look but it's like to me adopt is
[TS]
01:10:32
◼
►
the little one well echo show is is the
[TS]
01:10:36
◼
►
one with the TV set and right go look is
[TS]
01:10:39
◼
►
the one that's like for your dressing
[TS]
01:10:41
◼
►
room right but you could call it like
[TS]
01:10:46
◼
►
it's one of those things where all right
[TS]
01:10:49
◼
►
echo look is the one that is a camera
[TS]
01:10:51
◼
►
and you show it you get dressed and you
[TS]
01:10:53
◼
►
get like a selfie and you can get like
[TS]
01:10:56
◼
►
some kind of analysis as to whether your
[TS]
01:10:58
◼
►
shoes match your belt or whatever but it
[TS]
01:11:01
◼
►
just the name echo look it could also
[TS]
01:11:04
◼
►
mean the thing that you look at the
[TS]
01:11:05
◼
►
thing with your screen right and echo
[TS]
01:11:08
◼
►
show which is the one with the screen
[TS]
01:11:09
◼
►
that could be the name of the one that's
[TS]
01:11:11
◼
►
the camera like here echo let me show
[TS]
01:11:13
◼
►
you what I'm wearing right yeah I would
[TS]
01:11:16
◼
►
call the other one like just this is
[TS]
01:11:17
◼
►
called echo camera laughing so too good
[TS]
01:11:19
◼
►
is it clear that's what it is right and
[TS]
01:11:21
◼
►
I think the the whole like gives you
[TS]
01:11:23
◼
►
tips on what you wear I I always feel
[TS]
01:11:27
◼
►
like they put that in for the tech geeks
[TS]
01:11:28
◼
►
like I mean the reality is like this
[TS]
01:11:30
◼
►
whole like taking pictures of your
[TS]
01:11:33
◼
►
outfit is a huge thing like a massive
[TS]
01:11:35
◼
►
thing and people do do it every day they
[TS]
01:11:37
◼
►
mostly do it by holding up their arm and
[TS]
01:11:38
◼
►
taking a selfie or staying in front of a
[TS]
01:11:40
◼
►
mirror and snapping a picture like and
[TS]
01:11:41
◼
►
like it's a is it like it's a massive
[TS]
01:11:45
◼
►
massive massive thing so I think that's
[TS]
01:11:46
◼
►
clearly what this product is focused on
[TS]
01:11:49
◼
►
that's the point of it and every maybe
[TS]
01:11:52
◼
►
in the long run it will be useful to
[TS]
01:11:54
◼
►
like do the sort of AI stuff but I was
[TS]
01:11:58
◼
►
like that was like throwing a bone to to
[TS]
01:12:00
◼
►
all the techies saying like oh and
[TS]
01:12:02
◼
►
there's this thing - it's a selfie
[TS]
01:12:03
◼
►
camera like that what it is and it's and
[TS]
01:12:06
◼
►
that's not to belittle it because that
[TS]
01:12:08
◼
►
is a massive market and and it's a
[TS]
01:12:11
◼
►
massive market that's really interesting
[TS]
01:12:12
◼
►
there's lots of stuff about like retail
[TS]
01:12:13
◼
►
and retail changing and one of the big
[TS]
01:12:15
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drivers of this is social media and on
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01:12:17
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social media it used to be back in the
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01:12:20
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day like what drove fashion was it was
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01:12:22
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all status thing right you want to go
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and you're them all you buy the high
[TS]
01:12:25
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status items and then you would wear
[TS]
01:12:26
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them to school or whatever now it's much
[TS]
01:12:30
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more about standing out poppin on social
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01:12:32
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media and variety and having something
[TS]
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interesting and different is much more
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important and I think playing into that
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01:12:40
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I love because you said we wear it to
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01:12:42
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school or whatever and you're I know
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01:12:44
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exactly why you said that and I think I
[TS]
01:12:45
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even know why you hesitated after saying
[TS]
01:12:47
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is I think you had the same thought that
[TS]
01:12:49
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I had did as you said it is you're
[TS]
01:12:51
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talking from the perspective of me and
[TS]
01:12:53
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you two guys in our Latino because when
[TS]
01:12:57
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when retail was the only way to buy
[TS]
01:12:59
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clothes that's when you and I were in
[TS]
01:13:01
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cyka school idol and and by the time we
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01:13:05
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got out of school that was when the
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01:13:06
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internet was a thing and I had the same
[TS]
01:13:08
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thought it's like well yeah back in the
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01:13:10
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days back in the days when you used to
[TS]
01:13:12
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have to buy all your clothes at the mall
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01:13:13
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you'd wear them school everybody worn to
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school but of course there were
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generations of adults ahead of us who
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wore than
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01:13:20
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to other places yeah Venera it's it is
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01:13:25
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funny like it's always hard to uh or it
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01:13:28
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you have to be like super you're right
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01:13:30
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because the hesitation was the snap of
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01:13:31
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self-awareness like I'm probably over
[TS]
01:13:33
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personalizing this experience but but I
[TS]
01:13:35
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you do see this you know this sort of
[TS]
01:13:38
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like traditional brands that dominated
[TS]
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sort of malls and you know they're all
[TS]
01:13:43
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struggling you know mightily and you you
[TS]
01:13:48
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you see other things like there's this
[TS]
01:13:49
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uh other websites and services that are
[TS]
01:13:52
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much more inexpensive and it's much more
[TS]
01:13:55
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about having something unique and
[TS]
01:13:57
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indifferent uh as opposed to having the
[TS]
01:14:00
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same branded
[TS]
01:14:02
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you know teacher is everybody saying
[TS]
01:14:04
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that I think the New York Times just had
[TS]
01:14:05
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a story that the j-cruise
[TS]
01:14:07
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and financial distress the gap is too
[TS]
01:14:11
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there's a company know companies that
[TS]
01:14:13
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ankle and grumpy and Fitch like all of
[TS]
01:14:15
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them all of them are struggling right
[TS]
01:14:17
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and he would thought well Abercrombie
[TS]
01:14:19
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and Fitch was always a little bit more
[TS]
01:14:23
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niche you know because they had the you
[TS]
01:14:26
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know it smells weird and it purposefully
[TS]
01:14:28
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made an unwelcoming front it's actually
[TS]
01:14:31
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kind of an interesting retail strategy
[TS]
01:14:32
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where they they kind of made the front
[TS]
01:14:34
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of their stores sort of hard to get into
[TS]
01:14:36
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like I said I'm a big wide opening they
[TS]
01:14:39
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would just have a door and it was sort
[TS]
01:14:41
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of you know like they wanted you know
[TS]
01:14:45
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it's totally contrary to most retailers
[TS]
01:14:49
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but it was sort of like they only wanted
[TS]
01:14:50
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the right people to come in you know
[TS]
01:14:52
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young people who were shopping for
[TS]
01:14:54
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Abercrombie Coll clothes but anyway the
[TS]
01:14:57
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gap to me is more of the universal my
[TS]
01:14:59
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god everybody can go in the gap and find
[TS]
01:15:00
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something that they would consider
[TS]
01:15:02
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wearing too weird that they're having
[TS]
01:15:05
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fun and I'm not weird but it's just it's
[TS]
01:15:07
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it's obviously like a foundation of
[TS]
01:15:10
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American retail is crumbling if stores
[TS]
01:15:13
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like that aren't doing well
[TS]
01:15:15
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here's a question for you do you still
[TS]
01:15:16
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do you do you ever like when you need
[TS]
01:15:19
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like you feel like you need like some
[TS]
01:15:21
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new shirts do you go out and buy shirts
[TS]
01:15:22
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in a retail store and you buy everything
[TS]
01:15:24
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online I I look I usually every summer I
[TS]
01:15:30
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go and just buy a ton of stuff actually
[TS]
01:15:34
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we always it's a thing because my
[TS]
01:15:36
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brother lives in Minneapolis and so we
[TS]
01:15:38
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always go there and see my brother and
[TS]
01:15:39
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then one day we go to the Mall of
[TS]
01:15:41
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America and there's no sales tax on
[TS]
01:15:43
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clothing there and everything's there
[TS]
01:15:45
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and we just like spend one day buying
[TS]
01:15:47
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Early's I do try to buy all the clothes
[TS]
01:15:49
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I need for the entire year is what I do
[TS]
01:15:52
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need things otherwise yeah I go to
[TS]
01:15:54
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department stores here I don't I don't
[TS]
01:15:56
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buy I don't buy online but I mean
[TS]
01:15:58
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everything online here is mostly in
[TS]
01:16:00
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Chinese and whatnot and obviously a
[TS]
01:16:02
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little more difficult but my wife buys a
[TS]
01:16:03
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ton of stuff online she buys stuff
[TS]
01:16:04
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online all the time my wife finds
[TS]
01:16:06
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everything online every almost
[TS]
01:16:07
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everything I don't I can't recall the
[TS]
01:16:10
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last time she went out shopping for
[TS]
01:16:12
◼
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clothes she just buys everything online
[TS]
01:16:13
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and unlike me she's not afraid to send
[TS]
01:16:15
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stuff back like that's my problem I I
[TS]
01:16:18
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don't I hate I just don't like packing
[TS]
01:16:20
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stuff up stand back it's irrational it's
[TS]
01:16:24
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completely irrational and it's not like
[TS]
01:16:26
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I've amassed all these like a big pile
[TS]
01:16:30
◼
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of clothes that I don't like or that
[TS]
01:16:31
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don't fit that I just suck the you know
[TS]
01:16:35
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just eat the cost of it because I don't
[TS]
01:16:37
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send but it's why I don't buy stuff like
[TS]
01:16:39
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shirts like if I was going to buy like a
[TS]
01:16:41
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dress shirt I don't buy it online in
[TS]
01:16:43
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your last night I know I'm the same way
[TS]
01:16:45
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if I know that there's like a shirt from
[TS]
01:16:49
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Banana Republic that I already have one
[TS]
01:16:51
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and I know the exact size and I can
[TS]
01:16:53
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judge from the picture exactly what this
[TS]
01:16:55
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one looks like I would buy that online
[TS]
01:16:56
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but that's because I've actually tried
[TS]
01:16:58
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it on yeah I'm the same way I just
[TS]
01:17:02
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that's sort of like yes it's a hassle to
[TS]
01:17:05
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get in the car like go to the store or
[TS]
01:17:07
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however you get you to the store but for
[TS]
01:17:10
◼
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me that that sort of hassle doesn't
[TS]
01:17:12
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register whereas having a bunch of boxes
[TS]
01:17:14
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and having to pack stuff up and put it
[TS]
01:17:17
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out and oh that's just like sounds like
[TS]
01:17:19
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absolute torture to me even if you know
[TS]
01:17:21
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even if you were to actually go through
[TS]
01:17:22
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and add up the number of minutes that it
[TS]
01:17:23
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takes it's less the the feeling of it is
[TS]
01:17:26
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is much worse so I'm now completely
[TS]
01:17:28
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view but for stuff like like underwear
[TS]
01:17:31
◼
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and socks and stuff like that I don't
[TS]
01:17:33
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think I've bought anything like that in
[TS]
01:17:34
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a retail store in ten years I mean why
[TS]
01:17:36
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would you you know it's crazy I feel
[TS]
01:17:39
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like you feel like you need some new
[TS]
01:17:40
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underwear boom just like a couple of
[TS]
01:17:43
◼
►
items and it's at your house the Amazon
[TS]
01:17:45
◼
►
Apparel thing all is very interesting
[TS]
01:17:47
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►
because they're they've not announced
[TS]
01:17:49
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►
any numbers about it but there's sort of
[TS]
01:17:51
◼
►
hints that that it's actually doing much
[TS]
01:17:53
◼
►
better than you think and they're
[TS]
01:17:54
◼
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growing really rapidly I suspect a lot
[TS]
01:17:57
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of it you know is probably things like
[TS]
01:17:58
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you just said you know basics and
[TS]
01:18:01
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whatnot but they're making for at a
[TS]
01:18:04
◼
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minimum there for sure making massive
[TS]
01:18:05
◼
►
investments in it like just huge not
[TS]
01:18:09
◼
►
just the Amazon book although I think
[TS]
01:18:10
◼
►
that is interesting in that regard but
[TS]
01:18:13
◼
►
they have all kinds of interesting
[TS]
01:18:14
◼
►
projects going on they've watched
[TS]
01:18:15
◼
►
multiple brands uh you know that you
[TS]
01:18:19
◼
►
know that because they're brands for
[TS]
01:18:22
◼
►
they sort of categories own they own
[TS]
01:18:24
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Zappos yeah but this is this is all in
[TS]
01:18:28
◼
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Amazon itself like I think it's not it's
[TS]
01:18:30
◼
►
not the Zappos thing was I think at they
[TS]
01:18:34
◼
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bought them because they were doing well
[TS]
01:18:36
◼
►
in their own e-commerce sites and so
[TS]
01:18:38
◼
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they want to bet they wanted to take
[TS]
01:18:40
◼
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them out I mean they just closed down or
[TS]
01:18:42
◼
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they're on the verge of closing down
[TS]
01:18:43
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what's the other when they bought
[TS]
01:18:44
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diapers diapers calm yeah same thing
[TS]
01:18:47
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they you know I think in the long run I
[TS]
01:18:50
◼
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would I'd be surprised if Zappos remains
[TS]
01:18:52
◼
►
ongoing concern but I mean people like
[TS]
01:18:54
◼
►
it people go there so maybe they'll keep
[TS]
01:18:55
◼
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those they'll keep it around but the
[TS]
01:18:57
◼
►
long run for sure is is all Amazon maybe
[TS]
01:18:59
◼
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they want because in this is the other
[TS]
01:19:01
◼
►
thing oh this is the top of which talk
[TS]
01:19:02
◼
►
about I'm writable this yet but um the
[TS]
01:19:04
◼
►
Amazon Prime video be on Apple TV oh
[TS]
01:19:08
◼
►
yeah well that's here I'm making a note
[TS]
01:19:10
◼
►
we'll talk about that a minute yeah well
[TS]
01:19:12
◼
►
because I think Amazon is really trying
[TS]
01:19:14
◼
►
to own every aspect of your they they
[TS]
01:19:17
◼
►
want to be the facilitator of basically
[TS]
01:19:19
◼
►
everything in your life particularly
[TS]
01:19:21
◼
►
everything in the home and this is what
[TS]
01:19:22
◼
►
makes the whole echo line so brilliant
[TS]
01:19:25
◼
►
for Amazon it's I mean the opportunity
[TS]
01:19:27
◼
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the reason the opportunity is there is
[TS]
01:19:29
◼
►
because the home is the one place you
[TS]
01:19:31
◼
►
don't necessarily have your phone with
[TS]
01:19:32
◼
►
you right if you're out and about you
[TS]
01:19:33
◼
►
always have your phone with you if
[TS]
01:19:35
◼
►
you're at phone if you're at home it's
[TS]
01:19:36
◼
►
plugged in and charging and whereas and
[TS]
01:19:40
◼
►
the other thing is if you aren't about
[TS]
01:19:41
◼
►
to just suddenly talk a Tran
[TS]
01:19:43
◼
►
it's getting perhaps more and more
[TS]
01:19:45
◼
►
socially acceptable but still a little
[TS]
01:19:46
◼
►
weird where it's at home to kind of
[TS]
01:19:47
◼
►
shout at Chartres and echo is is totally
[TS]
01:19:50
◼
►
fine but there's nothing like it's your
[TS]
01:19:52
◼
►
house you can do what you want but also
[TS]
01:19:54
◼
►
it fits with the sort of long-term
[TS]
01:19:57
◼
►
Amazon model of basically being the
[TS]
01:20:02
◼
►
infrastructure for your for your home
[TS]
01:20:04
◼
►
it's how the things your home get there
[TS]
01:20:05
◼
►
is how you resupply it's how you do
[TS]
01:20:08
◼
►
everything and so that's the focus on
[TS]
01:20:09
◼
►
clothes and echo and all sort of stuff
[TS]
01:20:11
◼
►
fits into that and having a uh having
[TS]
01:20:16
◼
►
another brand that's not Amazon I think
[TS]
01:20:19
◼
►
doesn't fit into that in the long run
[TS]
01:20:20
◼
►
especially with prime because they want
[TS]
01:20:22
◼
►
to be it's all Amazon it's all prime and
[TS]
01:20:25
◼
►
so I I will see how long that poses for
[TS]
01:20:29
◼
►
this world but it's I doubt it'll be a
[TS]
01:20:31
◼
►
focus of their sort of apparel efforts
[TS]
01:20:32
◼
►
oh I think that is doing well I just
[TS]
01:20:35
◼
►
maybe it's just continues to run as a
[TS]
01:20:37
◼
►
sort of independent you know I think you
[TS]
01:20:40
◼
►
could easily be it well maybe not maybe
[TS]
01:20:42
◼
►
they make you sign in with Amazon I
[TS]
01:20:44
◼
►
don't know but I thought I was going to
[TS]
01:20:45
◼
►
say that I think you can shop at Zappos
[TS]
01:20:47
◼
►
and not even know that they're a
[TS]
01:20:48
◼
►
subsidiary but yeah right and I think
[TS]
01:20:52
◼
►
that that's fine fram's I mean as long
[TS]
01:20:55
◼
►
as it's not someone else as long as they
[TS]
01:20:58
◼
►
own it here's the thing that it doesn't
[TS]
01:21:00
◼
►
surprise me but it's it it it still I
[TS]
01:21:05
◼
►
still found it striking was how much of
[TS]
01:21:07
◼
►
the reaction to the Amazon are the echo
[TS]
01:21:09
◼
►
look the one that's a camera for you
[TS]
01:21:11
◼
►
getting dressed was a sort of knee-jerk
[TS]
01:21:14
◼
►
you think I'm putting a camera connected
[TS]
01:21:17
◼
►
to the cloud in my dressing room you got
[TS]
01:21:19
◼
►
to be kidding me
[TS]
01:21:20
◼
►
um like a sort of knee-jerk I am NOT
[TS]
01:21:23
◼
►
putting a computerised camera that you
[TS]
01:21:25
◼
►
know uploads pictures to the web I don't
[TS]
01:21:28
◼
►
you know that you don't trust it or
[TS]
01:21:29
◼
►
whatever and I understand it and it you
[TS]
01:21:32
◼
►
know it certainly is it's a reasonable
[TS]
01:21:36
◼
►
concern that you'd want it to be private
[TS]
01:21:39
◼
►
and you want it to come from a company
[TS]
01:21:40
◼
►
that you trust and you know it common
[TS]
01:21:43
◼
►
sense that you'd think you know at least
[TS]
01:21:44
◼
►
think twice before you bought it and
[TS]
01:21:46
◼
►
installed it
[TS]
01:21:48
◼
►
but I think it's almost silly to take
[TS]
01:21:51
◼
►
the point that you don't think that
[TS]
01:21:53
◼
►
we're going to have cameras all over our
[TS]
01:21:55
◼
►
houses soon like it's clearly that's
[TS]
01:21:58
◼
►
where it's the only way to go yeah the
[TS]
01:22:01
◼
►
other thing too is I mean is a is a
[TS]
01:22:04
◼
►
camera really much worse than the echo
[TS]
01:22:06
◼
►
itself I mean the the entire category is
[TS]
01:22:10
◼
►
very but that's how we've acted that a
[TS]
01:22:13
◼
►
couple years ago they just dies down it
[TS]
01:22:16
◼
►
and I'm not saying that we should yeah I
[TS]
01:22:21
◼
►
think you know I think anybody who knows
[TS]
01:22:22
◼
►
me at all through the show or Darren
[TS]
01:22:25
◼
►
fireball would would guess that I'm it's
[TS]
01:22:28
◼
►
not like I rush headlong into new things
[TS]
01:22:31
◼
►
without thinking about them you know in
[TS]
01:22:34
◼
►
some ways on the lowercase C
[TS]
01:22:35
◼
►
conservative a lot of it you know and I
[TS]
01:22:38
◼
►
don't but you know I find out what I
[TS]
01:22:41
◼
►
like it and I stick with it so I'm not
[TS]
01:22:44
◼
►
drawn to new and shiny all the time
[TS]
01:22:47
◼
►
but I feel like everybody's a little bit
[TS]
01:22:49
◼
►
- in some ways it's good that there's a
[TS]
01:22:51
◼
►
lot of people who are whose first
[TS]
01:22:53
◼
►
concerns privacy as opposed to thinking
[TS]
01:22:55
◼
►
about the cool things you could do with
[TS]
01:22:57
◼
►
something like this but I'm reminded of
[TS]
01:22:59
◼
►
God it must probably like 99 or
[TS]
01:23:02
◼
►
something like that but way back you
[TS]
01:23:04
◼
►
know around the the millennium when like
[TS]
01:23:07
◼
►
Mac apps into Indy Mac apps first
[TS]
01:23:10
◼
►
started adding features where they would
[TS]
01:23:12
◼
►
phone home and just say like you
[TS]
01:23:15
◼
►
couldn't even upgrade it would like
[TS]
01:23:17
◼
►
sparkle the technologies where you can
[TS]
01:23:19
◼
►
hit a button and have you know you're
[TS]
01:23:21
◼
►
using version 3.1 version 3.2 is out
[TS]
01:23:24
◼
►
would you like to upgrade you just hit a
[TS]
01:23:26
◼
►
button and it downloads and upgrades and
[TS]
01:23:27
◼
►
quits and relaunches and there you go
[TS]
01:23:29
◼
►
you're running the new one but there
[TS]
01:23:30
◼
►
were apps that would just just put a
[TS]
01:23:32
◼
►
dialogue up and say hey there's a new
[TS]
01:23:34
◼
►
version do you want to go to the website
[TS]
01:23:35
◼
►
and download it and people freaked the
[TS]
01:23:37
◼
►
fuck out because they were like what the
[TS]
01:23:39
◼
►
hell you'd you know and and you know
[TS]
01:23:41
◼
►
sniffing the network traffic and you
[TS]
01:23:43
◼
►
know and and it's not like they were
[TS]
01:23:45
◼
►
revealing anything but the fact that the
[TS]
01:23:47
◼
►
app was phoning home with anything even
[TS]
01:23:49
◼
►
just check the version was too much for
[TS]
01:23:52
◼
►
people and there were people who would
[TS]
01:23:54
◼
►
be like I'm you know and a minute I'm
[TS]
01:23:55
◼
►
deleting this app I'm switching to a
[TS]
01:23:57
◼
►
competitor because there's no way that
[TS]
01:23:59
◼
►
any song
[TS]
01:24:00
◼
►
where mine is going to phone home to the
[TS]
01:24:02
◼
►
developer server even if it's just to
[TS]
01:24:05
◼
►
check the Virgin and I I don't want to
[TS]
01:24:09
◼
►
make fun of it too bad but I mean that's
[TS]
01:24:11
◼
►
you know there is there an app that you
[TS]
01:24:15
◼
►
use today that doesn't doesn't notify
[TS]
01:24:17
◼
►
you when there's a new version and I
[TS]
01:24:19
◼
►
feel like yeah we're going that way with
[TS]
01:24:21
◼
►
microphones and cameras we are with us I
[TS]
01:24:24
◼
►
think there's there's two sort of points
[TS]
01:24:26
◼
►
to make one is your broader point in
[TS]
01:24:29
◼
►
this is the most important point is this
[TS]
01:24:31
◼
►
is sort of inevitable like we're going
[TS]
01:24:33
◼
►
down this direction and the fact of the
[TS]
01:24:35
◼
►
matter is that most people just don't
[TS]
01:24:38
◼
►
care and and this applies to their
[TS]
01:24:41
◼
►
online privacy it applies to and this is
[TS]
01:24:43
◼
►
the big problem with with you know sort
[TS]
01:24:45
◼
►
of fighting for for privacy when it
[TS]
01:24:49
◼
►
comes technology products is that
[TS]
01:24:51
◼
►
unfortunately people don't care and
[TS]
01:24:53
◼
►
maybe at some point there will be some
[TS]
01:24:55
◼
►
scandal that's so bad that is so big
[TS]
01:24:57
◼
►
that it will actually become something
[TS]
01:25:00
◼
►
that people care about but to date
[TS]
01:25:02
◼
►
there's no evidence that that's going to
[TS]
01:25:04
◼
►
happen people value convenience they
[TS]
01:25:06
◼
►
just they just do and and related to
[TS]
01:25:11
◼
►
that though that it actually is really
[TS]
01:25:14
◼
►
concerning like the whole echo thing
[TS]
01:25:15
◼
►
like I have I have echoes over my house
[TS]
01:25:17
◼
►
but the actual like it's not really
[TS]
01:25:21
◼
►
I mean amazon says that that they're
[TS]
01:25:23
◼
►
that they're secure and all this sort of
[TS]
01:25:25
◼
►
stuff but there's no really recourse for
[TS]
01:25:28
◼
►
people if they were used badly like it
[TS]
01:25:32
◼
►
really is just kind of trusting this
[TS]
01:25:33
◼
►
massive corporation is going to do the
[TS]
01:25:36
◼
►
right thing and uh and yeah obviously
[TS]
01:25:40
◼
►
people can and will track their network
[TS]
01:25:43
◼
►
and make sure that it's only sending
[TS]
01:25:45
◼
►
when you know when Alexis triggered
[TS]
01:25:47
◼
►
whatever might be and but then once it's
[TS]
01:25:49
◼
►
on the servers you don't really know
[TS]
01:25:50
◼
►
what's happening to it it really is a
[TS]
01:25:51
◼
►
massive massive problem unfortunately
[TS]
01:25:53
◼
►
it's a problem that absent some sort of
[TS]
01:25:58
◼
►
like popular will it's hard to see
[TS]
01:26:00
◼
►
anything being done about it right once
[TS]
01:26:04
◼
►
you once your yo dingus you know turn
[TS]
01:26:08
◼
►
out turn out the lights in the kitchen
[TS]
01:26:09
◼
►
command goes there you have no idea
[TS]
01:26:11
◼
►
where that audio
[TS]
01:26:13
◼
►
and how long and lasts and what they do
[TS]
01:26:15
◼
►
with it it's a bit as a black box so I'm
[TS]
01:26:17
◼
►
not discounting the privacy concerns but
[TS]
01:26:19
◼
►
I think and it's just like it's such a
[TS]
01:26:21
◼
►
small example but just like how apps
[TS]
01:26:23
◼
►
that can run a version check and notify
[TS]
01:26:26
◼
►
you of a new version it is a trade-off
[TS]
01:26:29
◼
►
of privacy where you know there is some
[TS]
01:26:32
◼
►
information of yours that is going to
[TS]
01:26:34
◼
►
the developer and they can you know
[TS]
01:26:36
◼
►
maybe you know a lot of times send other
[TS]
01:26:39
◼
►
things too like what model McIntosh
[TS]
01:26:41
◼
►
you're on and how much RAM you have or
[TS]
01:26:42
◼
►
something like that you're are trading
[TS]
01:26:44
◼
►
some privacy by allowing the software to
[TS]
01:26:46
◼
►
do it but in return you're getting
[TS]
01:26:48
◼
►
something of such convenience it is so
[TS]
01:26:50
◼
►
much that the days when you used to have
[TS]
01:26:52
◼
►
to manually you know like follow you
[TS]
01:26:54
◼
►
know there's to be a website like Mac
[TS]
01:26:56
◼
►
update where you'd like part of my
[TS]
01:26:58
◼
►
morning was go to Mac updating and what
[TS]
01:27:01
◼
►
was the other one version version
[TS]
01:27:02
◼
►
tracker you'd go to version tracker and
[TS]
01:27:05
◼
►
just see if any of the software I use
[TS]
01:27:06
◼
►
has a new version out and if so go go
[TS]
01:27:09
◼
►
and update it yeah I mean that was
[TS]
01:27:11
◼
►
actually part of my like daily routine
[TS]
01:27:14
◼
►
it seems like madness at this point and
[TS]
01:27:17
◼
►
you know there's so much of the
[TS]
01:27:18
◼
►
convenience of these AI assistants the
[TS]
01:27:24
◼
►
in were just just touching our toes in
[TS]
01:27:26
◼
►
it like I don't know I the more I think
[TS]
01:27:28
◼
►
about it and I know I've been talking
[TS]
01:27:30
◼
►
about it a lot more on the show like if
[TS]
01:27:32
◼
►
I were to go to a company like Apple or
[TS]
01:27:35
◼
►
Microsoft or something or n8 or Google
[TS]
01:27:37
◼
►
like what what would I want to be
[TS]
01:27:39
◼
►
working on I mean until now it almost
[TS]
01:27:42
◼
►
unquestionably what I would want to be
[TS]
01:27:43
◼
►
working on is you visual user interface
[TS]
01:27:46
◼
►
stuff for the GUI I think if I were
[TS]
01:27:50
◼
►
there now I think the AI stuff would be
[TS]
01:27:53
◼
►
what I would want to work on because I
[TS]
01:27:55
◼
►
feel like there's so much potential
[TS]
01:27:56
◼
►
there wasn't it's interesting about the
[TS]
01:27:59
◼
►
echo and with the echo show is I think
[TS]
01:28:00
◼
►
it's in some respects it was good for
[TS]
01:28:03
◼
►
Amazon to watch with just the speaker
[TS]
01:28:05
◼
►
because it sort of it was like the
[TS]
01:28:07
◼
►
original Mac launching without arrow
[TS]
01:28:09
◼
►
keys so you like you had to use the
[TS]
01:28:12
◼
►
mouse and like the foundation of it
[TS]
01:28:14
◼
►
being a voice interface was is baked in
[TS]
01:28:18
◼
►
very very deeply and so now the show
[TS]
01:28:19
◼
►
comes out and it has a screen but it's
[TS]
01:28:22
◼
►
not a touch screen it's still all
[TS]
01:28:23
◼
►
voice-controlled but it's a weird
[TS]
01:28:26
◼
►
because if
[TS]
01:28:27
◼
►
came out originally we say why there's a
[TS]
01:28:28
◼
►
screen it's not touchscreen this is so
[TS]
01:28:29
◼
►
weird in people like wouldn't really get
[TS]
01:28:31
◼
►
how to interact with it now it's like oh
[TS]
01:28:33
◼
►
wow it's so much so convenient is it you
[TS]
01:28:35
◼
►
it's an echo with a screen like the
[TS]
01:28:38
◼
►
whole framing in the way you think about
[TS]
01:28:39
◼
►
the product is actually totally
[TS]
01:28:42
◼
►
different because they it was a more
[TS]
01:28:44
◼
►
sort of limited product to start out
[TS]
01:28:46
◼
►
with I did not realize it was not a
[TS]
01:28:47
◼
►
touchscreen I find that shocking it's
[TS]
01:28:50
◼
►
not a touchscreen I know wow that's
[TS]
01:28:53
◼
►
shocking to me I find that crazy I think
[TS]
01:28:55
◼
►
that's a huge mistake I think there's
[TS]
01:28:58
◼
►
all sorts of things that you'd want to
[TS]
01:28:59
◼
►
do that you'd want to be able to touch
[TS]
01:29:00
◼
►
to confirm or something like that
[TS]
01:29:02
◼
►
wait ah yeah no that's I'm totally wrong
[TS]
01:29:04
◼
►
it is a touchscreen oh I thought I
[TS]
01:29:09
◼
►
thought maybe someone at Amazon had a
[TS]
01:29:11
◼
►
stroke or something yeah I know I did
[TS]
01:29:14
◼
►
that's funny I don't know I knew it's a
[TS]
01:29:16
◼
►
touchscreen and I guess I got stuck in
[TS]
01:29:18
◼
►
my head that was not a touchscreen the
[TS]
01:29:19
◼
►
the the the point I was been meaning to
[TS]
01:29:22
◼
►
make talk about it ordered altitude no
[TS]
01:29:26
◼
►
way man we're living on the point I try
[TS]
01:29:29
◼
►
to make though is the the primary means
[TS]
01:29:31
◼
►
of interacting with it is is voice I had
[TS]
01:29:34
◼
►
it been a touchscreen to start out with
[TS]
01:29:35
◼
►
as I'm trying to say it would have it
[TS]
01:29:37
◼
►
would have been much more limited than
[TS]
01:29:39
◼
►
it is because every developers all the
[TS]
01:29:42
◼
►
skills would have all been biased
[TS]
01:29:44
◼
►
towards touch now they're all biased
[TS]
01:29:46
◼
►
towards voice you can add on touch yeah
[TS]
01:29:48
◼
►
that was weird I just completely
[TS]
01:29:49
◼
►
hallucinate for like five minutes there
[TS]
01:29:51
◼
►
I just wrote about it yesterday I wrote
[TS]
01:29:52
◼
►
about of being a touchscreen I just
[TS]
01:29:54
◼
►
think I do see your point that I see
[TS]
01:29:55
◼
►
your point though that it is it is voice
[TS]
01:29:58
◼
►
first and it matters what's first you
[TS]
01:30:00
◼
►
know that the Mac being Mouse first
[TS]
01:30:02
◼
►
influenced the design that the GUI in a
[TS]
01:30:05
◼
►
way that if you could have treated it as
[TS]
01:30:07
◼
►
keyboard first it that's how the
[TS]
01:30:09
◼
►
software would have been written because
[TS]
01:30:10
◼
►
that's how all the other software and
[TS]
01:30:12
◼
►
all the other platforms was written
[TS]
01:30:13
◼
►
right exactly exactly
[TS]
01:30:14
◼
►
now is you could use an original
[TS]
01:30:17
◼
►
Macintosh like if you had two of the
[TS]
01:30:21
◼
►
original Macintosh side by side and one
[TS]
01:30:23
◼
►
of them only had the mouse hooked up and
[TS]
01:30:24
◼
►
the other one only had the keyboard
[TS]
01:30:26
◼
►
hooked up you could get more done on the
[TS]
01:30:28
◼
►
one that had the mouse hooked up and
[TS]
01:30:29
◼
►
there might have been things that you
[TS]
01:30:31
◼
►
couldn't even do on the keyboard one
[TS]
01:30:32
◼
►
yeah you couldn't even get to the menu
[TS]
01:30:35
◼
►
bar the only thing you could do in the
[TS]
01:30:36
◼
►
menu bar was have the keyboard shortcuts
[TS]
01:30:38
◼
►
memorized
[TS]
01:30:39
◼
►
right and I mean in the long run day
[TS]
01:30:42
◼
►
they brought them back and it's better
[TS]
01:30:43
◼
►
it's better to have all you know the
[TS]
01:30:45
◼
►
arrow he's there and right and whatnot
[TS]
01:30:46
◼
►
but but as far as like getting the
[TS]
01:30:48
◼
►
paradigm watch and and you know if had
[TS]
01:30:52
◼
►
it been a touchscreen to start it would
[TS]
01:30:55
◼
►
have you know it that's just kind of
[TS]
01:30:57
◼
►
like it it was just a phone but worse
[TS]
01:31:00
◼
►
because it's locked in went one spot in
[TS]
01:31:01
◼
►
the to really drive home that it is a
[TS]
01:31:05
◼
►
voice interface yeah I think they're
[TS]
01:31:07
◼
►
better off starting there but that said
[TS]
01:31:09
◼
►
the other thing though with the screen
[TS]
01:31:12
◼
►
is I think this this calling thing we
[TS]
01:31:16
◼
►
mentioned do talk board with the phone
[TS]
01:31:17
◼
►
and stuff like that but I think there
[TS]
01:31:19
◼
►
really is value to being able to just
[TS]
01:31:23
◼
►
initiate a conversation and probably the
[TS]
01:31:25
◼
►
most interesting thing here in here
[TS]
01:31:26
◼
►
Amazon totally sort of ripped off one of
[TS]
01:31:28
◼
►
their one of their companies like that
[TS]
01:31:30
◼
►
they have a venture fund for like
[TS]
01:31:32
◼
►
companies that enamel acts have built in
[TS]
01:31:34
◼
►
there's company that built a voice
[TS]
01:31:36
◼
►
communication device that has the echo
[TS]
01:31:39
◼
►
built in and it's basically Amazon just
[TS]
01:31:41
◼
►
completely Sherlock them it which is bad
[TS]
01:31:44
◼
►
enough when its software and it's
[TS]
01:31:46
◼
►
probably far more painful when it's
[TS]
01:31:47
◼
►
hardware but once you have trusted
[TS]
01:31:50
◼
►
people you can drop in which basically
[TS]
01:31:52
◼
►
means you can initiate a call without
[TS]
01:31:55
◼
►
there having to go through it like
[TS]
01:31:56
◼
►
actually answer it or do whatever you
[TS]
01:31:57
◼
►
you just be like sort of instant sort of
[TS]
01:31:59
◼
►
thing now if that sounds terrible a lot
[TS]
01:32:00
◼
►
situations but for me I'm in a different
[TS]
01:32:03
◼
►
a separate office from down the street
[TS]
01:32:05
◼
►
from from the house to be able just like
[TS]
01:32:08
◼
►
turn on bail to literally drop in its
[TS]
01:32:11
◼
►
someone if I was working from home to
[TS]
01:32:13
◼
►
have some be able to you know come in
[TS]
01:32:14
◼
►
the stop the door stick their head in
[TS]
01:32:16
◼
►
it's the same sort of idea obviously
[TS]
01:32:18
◼
►
you're not gonna use it all the time but
[TS]
01:32:20
◼
►
the possibility I think is is compelling
[TS]
01:32:22
◼
►
and interesting and fundamentally
[TS]
01:32:24
◼
►
different from FaceTime fundamentally
[TS]
01:32:25
◼
►
different from having to get your phone
[TS]
01:32:26
◼
►
and pull it out for the kids to call you
[TS]
01:32:29
◼
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know grandma like something like this is
[TS]
01:32:31
◼
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really is more convenient than than
[TS]
01:32:34
◼
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having to use FaceTime mmm-hmm
[TS]
01:32:37
◼
►
I forget what it was in the context on
[TS]
01:32:41
◼
►
one of these things where I was like you
[TS]
01:32:42
◼
►
know but just how crude all of these
[TS]
01:32:45
◼
►
things whether whatever your favorite is
[TS]
01:32:47
◼
►
you know the Alexa platform or Siri or
[TS]
01:32:49
◼
►
Google or whatever it's so early days on
[TS]
01:32:52
◼
►
them that will we will look back and you
[TS]
01:32:55
◼
►
know this is like to the you know
[TS]
01:32:57
◼
►
personal computer like what the Apple to
[TS]
01:32:59
◼
►
was in 1981 you know its we're just at
[TS]
01:33:03
◼
►
the tip of the iceberg but that you can
[TS]
01:33:05
◼
►
see where we're going and I wrote that I
[TS]
01:33:07
◼
►
know really what I want is I want like a
[TS]
01:33:09
◼
►
c-3po but I thought about a couple days
[TS]
01:33:12
◼
►
later I realized I was totally wrong
[TS]
01:33:13
◼
►
that that's too much because the that's
[TS]
01:33:15
◼
►
a having the actual like robot who can
[TS]
01:33:18
◼
►
walk around is an entirely different set
[TS]
01:33:19
◼
►
of problems for these AI assistants what
[TS]
01:33:22
◼
►
I want is how from 2001 and I I wrote
[TS]
01:33:25
◼
►
that and I feel like every time you
[TS]
01:33:26
◼
►
bring up how everybody just goes
[TS]
01:33:28
◼
►
immediately to yeah but he you know
[TS]
01:33:30
◼
►
killed a bunch of astronauts and tried
[TS]
01:33:31
◼
►
to kill the other you know tried to kill
[TS]
01:33:32
◼
►
the last one too and had to be how'd it
[TS]
01:33:34
◼
►
be put right on alright put aside the
[TS]
01:33:37
◼
►
fact that he killed people
[TS]
01:33:38
◼
►
hahaha and he but he did kill people for
[TS]
01:33:41
◼
►
a very logical reason you know that I
[TS]
01:33:43
◼
►
don't want to spoil the movie but it's
[TS]
01:33:44
◼
►
you know and about it if you haven't
[TS]
01:33:47
◼
►
watched doesn't what do you watch
[TS]
01:33:48
◼
►
doesn't one but if you just if you think
[TS]
01:33:51
◼
►
about the stuff that how does in the
[TS]
01:33:53
◼
►
movie and how the astronauts interact
[TS]
01:33:56
◼
►
with them it's exactly where we're going
[TS]
01:33:58
◼
►
it is exactly the it is it it could not
[TS]
01:34:04
◼
►
be a better
[TS]
01:34:04
◼
►
everybody is racing towards how where
[TS]
01:34:07
◼
►
it's not just a voice in a speaker where
[TS]
01:34:10
◼
►
you can ask how you know what's what's
[TS]
01:34:12
◼
►
the square root of 256 or something like
[TS]
01:34:15
◼
►
that and get an answer it's that it's
[TS]
01:34:18
◼
►
the home automation integration where
[TS]
01:34:21
◼
►
you can say things like tell your dingus
[TS]
01:34:24
◼
►
to you know close all the blinds if you
[TS]
01:34:27
◼
►
have blinds that are hooked up to the
[TS]
01:34:29
◼
►
smart house or something like that or
[TS]
01:34:30
◼
►
change the color of your lights or
[TS]
01:34:32
◼
►
something like that like that's how they
[TS]
01:34:34
◼
►
ran the spaceship is they would tell how
[TS]
01:34:36
◼
►
to you know open the pod bay doors or
[TS]
01:34:38
◼
►
something like that like that's exactly
[TS]
01:34:40
◼
►
where we're going with all these things
[TS]
01:34:41
◼
►
and it's you know and you watch and one
[TS]
01:34:45
◼
►
of the things that you know if Kubrick
[TS]
01:34:47
◼
►
got so well in that movie is that they
[TS]
01:34:49
◼
►
you know from the perspective of
[TS]
01:34:51
◼
►
somebody watching it in 1968 it was like
[TS]
01:34:53
◼
►
whiz-bang futuristic stuff like wow you
[TS]
01:34:55
◼
►
can tell how to open the door and the
[TS]
01:34:57
◼
►
door opens but the astronauts acted like
[TS]
01:34:59
◼
►
it was the most normal thing in the
[TS]
01:35:00
◼
►
world because they were used to it
[TS]
01:35:04
◼
►
anyway I think everybody needs to watch
[TS]
01:35:06
◼
►
how and realize that that's exactly
[TS]
01:35:08
◼
►
where we're going any other thing too
[TS]
01:35:09
◼
►
about how was that and it would have
[TS]
01:35:12
◼
►
been so easy from 1968 perspective to
[TS]
01:35:17
◼
►
imagine how as a big refrigerator
[TS]
01:35:20
◼
►
computing device that's located in like
[TS]
01:35:24
◼
►
the bridge of the spaceship and did
[TS]
01:35:27
◼
►
think of that you know because that's
[TS]
01:35:29
◼
►
what computers were but how was
[TS]
01:35:30
◼
►
everywhere right they were just little
[TS]
01:35:33
◼
►
little red cameras all around the ship
[TS]
01:35:35
◼
►
he was a system that was running
[TS]
01:35:37
◼
►
throughout the whole ship right and
[TS]
01:35:40
◼
►
that's exactly the model of like I mean
[TS]
01:35:43
◼
►
in the Amazon tivity where you you you
[TS]
01:35:46
◼
►
could sprinkle these dots throughout
[TS]
01:35:48
◼
►
your house so that you know if you're
[TS]
01:35:50
◼
►
upstairs or downstairs you can access
[TS]
01:35:52
◼
►
the exact same system the other the
[TS]
01:35:56
◼
►
other I completely agree I think it is a
[TS]
01:36:00
◼
►
great example of of the what what
[TS]
01:36:04
◼
►
everyone is going for the other point I
[TS]
01:36:06
◼
►
would make I was just think about this
[TS]
01:36:07
◼
►
in terms of FaceTime is Google launched
[TS]
01:36:10
◼
►
a FaceTime competitor I came or what
[TS]
01:36:13
◼
►
it's called
[TS]
01:36:14
◼
►
um wowing or was it a low no hellos the
[TS]
01:36:17
◼
►
chat app we have weirdly they launched
[TS]
01:36:20
◼
►
two apps separately the Google duo yeah
[TS]
01:36:23
◼
►
I mean it's a problem the problem with
[TS]
01:36:27
◼
►
that is it's a separate app you have to
[TS]
01:36:29
◼
►
go download it etc and it's work beyond
[TS]
01:36:33
◼
►
you know why FaceTime is built-in
[TS]
01:36:36
◼
►
now obviously the advantage is you can
[TS]
01:36:38
◼
►
through I could go across platform then
[TS]
01:36:40
◼
►
you're competing against Skype those
[TS]
01:36:41
◼
►
which which has similar capability and
[TS]
01:36:44
◼
►
it's just it's just a hard is it the
[TS]
01:36:46
◼
►
Google's problem is always sort of the
[TS]
01:36:48
◼
►
go-to-market how they actually get their
[TS]
01:36:49
◼
►
products and technology into people's
[TS]
01:36:51
◼
►
hands and you know obviously Android is
[TS]
01:36:55
◼
►
one way to do that but then you have the
[TS]
01:36:57
◼
►
the other cross people on iPhones
[TS]
01:36:59
◼
►
download its anyhow it's hard my
[TS]
01:37:01
◼
►
impression of Google from the outside
[TS]
01:37:03
◼
►
and a load a load duo thing is a perfect
[TS]
01:37:05
◼
►
example of it is that they're their
[TS]
01:37:07
◼
►
company culture is so resistant to like
[TS]
01:37:11
◼
►
product people
[TS]
01:37:13
◼
►
you know like in and of itself there's
[TS]
01:37:15
◼
►
nothing on product like about a lo or
[TS]
01:37:18
◼
►
duo but there's clearly no overarching
[TS]
01:37:20
◼
►
strategy connecting the two or otherwise
[TS]
01:37:22
◼
►
they wouldn't exist as separate products
[TS]
01:37:24
◼
►
but there's nobody I don't feel as
[TS]
01:37:25
◼
►
anybody in position of authority to sort
[TS]
01:37:27
◼
►
of crack that whip and and guide it it's
[TS]
01:37:31
◼
►
you know it's just a thousand individual
[TS]
01:37:34
◼
►
cats wandering around Mountain View
[TS]
01:37:36
◼
►
doing whatever the hell they want yeah I
[TS]
01:37:40
◼
►
I don't know it is it is it doesn't
[TS]
01:37:42
◼
►
certainly does not seem ideal but the
[TS]
01:37:44
◼
►
difference here with the with Alexa and
[TS]
01:37:46
◼
►
this voice calling is because of this
[TS]
01:37:50
◼
►
show device like there is actually a
[TS]
01:37:53
◼
►
reason to download the app and to use it
[TS]
01:37:57
◼
►
because there is capability that is like
[TS]
01:38:00
◼
►
it's it's not just a ripoff it's
[TS]
01:38:02
◼
►
actually doing something new and unique
[TS]
01:38:05
◼
►
that is worth going to the trouble of
[TS]
01:38:06
◼
►
downloading the app for and so it's
[TS]
01:38:08
◼
►
actually I would argue much more of a
[TS]
01:38:10
◼
►
threat in the long run to FaceTime than
[TS]
01:38:13
◼
►
Google or Skype whatever even though
[TS]
01:38:15
◼
►
those have the advantage of being
[TS]
01:38:16
◼
►
cross-platform ello is not only
[TS]
01:38:19
◼
►
cross-platform but also has this third
[TS]
01:38:22
◼
►
dimension that makes you want to want to
[TS]
01:38:25
◼
►
use it hmm yeah I can sort of see that I
[TS]
01:38:33
◼
►
wonder how many people use a low I never
[TS]
01:38:36
◼
►
really hear about it anymore seems like
[TS]
01:38:38
◼
►
one of those things that you know an
[TS]
01:38:41
◼
►
example using it well I mean this is a
[TS]
01:38:44
◼
►
it's created for Google's benefit
[TS]
01:38:46
◼
►
because they need a chat app right yeah
[TS]
01:38:48
◼
►
like there's there's no market need for
[TS]
01:38:51
◼
►
it like there are plenty of chat apps
[TS]
01:38:53
◼
►
and this is the and you can't they added
[TS]
01:38:58
◼
►
some features like you can't just tack
[TS]
01:39:00
◼
►
on some features like you have to you
[TS]
01:39:03
◼
►
have to create a fund like the echo show
[TS]
01:39:06
◼
►
creates a fundamentally new use case for
[TS]
01:39:08
◼
►
video calling because it's like this
[TS]
01:39:10
◼
►
omnipresent object in a civil occasion
[TS]
01:39:13
◼
►
like you know in a place where it
[TS]
01:39:15
◼
►
actually makes sense yes it's kind of a
[TS]
01:39:17
◼
►
landline and blah blah blah but you know
[TS]
01:39:18
◼
►
you can't when you're wondering on your
[TS]
01:39:20
◼
►
house and your phone with you to be able
[TS]
01:39:21
◼
►
just shout out call whoever and you can
[TS]
01:39:24
◼
►
call other echoes you can it's not just
[TS]
01:39:27
◼
►
can call from echo to phone like there's
[TS]
01:39:30
◼
►
it's a fundamentally new use case
[TS]
01:39:32
◼
►
whereas these Google products had some
[TS]
01:39:34
◼
►
new features but the actual use case was
[TS]
01:39:36
◼
►
well served by plenty of other apps that
[TS]
01:39:38
◼
►
were there early and it's even more
[TS]
01:39:40
◼
►
difficult because it's a network
[TS]
01:39:41
◼
►
products and the single most important
[TS]
01:39:44
◼
►
feature the single most important
[TS]
01:39:46
◼
►
feature of any chat app is do your
[TS]
01:39:48
◼
►
friends and family use it like nothing
[TS]
01:39:50
◼
►
else matters beyond that yep because
[TS]
01:39:52
◼
►
it's it's like the old argument about
[TS]
01:39:54
◼
►
you know who bought the first fax
[TS]
01:39:56
◼
►
machine right who the hell are you
[TS]
01:40:00
◼
►
getting faxes from you just bought the
[TS]
01:40:01
◼
►
first one but all of a sudden if one guy
[TS]
01:40:04
◼
►
across town buys the second one all of a
[TS]
01:40:06
◼
►
sudden you've got something that's
[TS]
01:40:07
◼
►
valuable I mean it has more value than
[TS]
01:40:10
◼
►
it did when you each was the only fax
[TS]
01:40:11
◼
►
machine on the on the phone network and
[TS]
01:40:14
◼
►
this is what one thing was really
[TS]
01:40:16
◼
►
interesting was when the whole messaging
[TS]
01:40:17
◼
►
app like revolution would not it was
[TS]
01:40:21
◼
►
very brief was like two or three years
[TS]
01:40:22
◼
►
and what happened was it was really one
[TS]
01:40:26
◼
►
sort of country by country and in
[TS]
01:40:28
◼
►
countries which basically settle on one
[TS]
01:40:30
◼
►
service and that was it and it was over
[TS]
01:40:32
◼
►
like the fight was the it was done there
[TS]
01:40:34
◼
►
was no more there's no more of a fight
[TS]
01:40:37
◼
►
to be had and you had companies like we
[TS]
01:40:39
◼
►
Chad and line spending all kinds of
[TS]
01:40:41
◼
►
money trying to break into other
[TS]
01:40:43
◼
►
countries but once you're already
[TS]
01:40:46
◼
►
established absent absent some massive
[TS]
01:40:50
◼
►
leap in functionality like the reason
[TS]
01:40:53
◼
►
why messaging you know was such a big
[TS]
01:40:54
◼
►
deal is that in nearly every country the
[TS]
01:40:56
◼
►
world except for the US you have to pay
[TS]
01:40:57
◼
►
for SMS and I think this is why they I
[TS]
01:41:00
◼
►
still this is why the US thing is more
[TS]
01:41:03
◼
►
fragmented and is much further much more
[TS]
01:41:06
◼
►
behind as opposed to like message it at
[TS]
01:41:08
◼
►
penetration I mean and why I message is
[TS]
01:41:10
◼
►
probably the strongest the strongest
[TS]
01:41:13
◼
►
network because it's piggyback on SMS
[TS]
01:41:15
◼
►
but it's different it was different in
[TS]
01:41:17
◼
►
almost every other country in the world
[TS]
01:41:17
◼
►
we're not having to pay is a really
[TS]
01:41:21
◼
►
powerful way to drive adoption right uh
[TS]
01:41:24
◼
►
but once that was done once everyone is
[TS]
01:41:27
◼
►
already using a chat app that lets them
[TS]
01:41:29
◼
►
chat for free to get them to switch and
[TS]
01:41:33
◼
►
not just switch one person because you
[TS]
01:41:35
◼
►
have to switch everyone simultaneously
[TS]
01:41:37
◼
►
at the same time is basically these all
[TS]
01:41:40
◼
►
you know extreme
[TS]
01:41:41
◼
►
be difficult alright the lack of
[TS]
01:41:44
◼
►
foresight that the carrier's had by
[TS]
01:41:46
◼
►
trying to milk the SMS revenue at the
[TS]
01:41:49
◼
►
expense of well if we just give
[TS]
01:41:52
◼
►
everybody free at the very least they're
[TS]
01:41:54
◼
►
they're attached to the phone right then
[TS]
01:41:58
◼
►
a right number and we've got we've got
[TS]
01:42:00
◼
►
like a at least got a sticky platform
[TS]
01:42:02
◼
►
like in the way that I message has been
[TS]
01:42:04
◼
►
very very good Apple even though they've
[TS]
01:42:06
◼
►
never once charged a send one of apples
[TS]
01:42:08
◼
►
yeah right yes yeah I mean it's one of
[TS]
01:42:12
◼
►
apples but III probably - uh Natasha
[TS]
01:42:15
◼
►
before for sure I've complained about of
[TS]
01:42:17
◼
►
exponents but people often ask like or I
[TS]
01:42:20
◼
►
get emails whenever I write about
[TS]
01:42:21
◼
►
messaging messaging apps and people like
[TS]
01:42:23
◼
►
you know Oh Apple why is an iMessage
[TS]
01:42:26
◼
►
in the stock price well you know we ten
[TS]
01:42:28
◼
►
cent is worth X amount Facebook's worth
[TS]
01:42:30
◼
►
X amount Facebook Apple stock should be
[TS]
01:42:32
◼
►
higher because they have this this they
[TS]
01:42:34
◼
►
have iMessage and I know
[TS]
01:42:36
◼
►
iMessage is absolutely accounted for
[TS]
01:42:38
◼
►
it's accounted for in the phone like it
[TS]
01:42:41
◼
►
is a reason why Apple can maintain
[TS]
01:42:44
◼
►
charge such high margins on the phone
[TS]
01:42:46
◼
►
can maintain its share can be so
[TS]
01:42:48
◼
►
dominant in iMessage is it's not the
[TS]
01:42:51
◼
►
reason but it is a significant reason
[TS]
01:42:53
◼
►
why people on iPhones continue to buy
[TS]
01:42:57
◼
►
iPhones and so it's super valuable and
[TS]
01:43:00
◼
►
it is accounted for
[TS]
01:43:02
◼
►
it's just embedded in the iPhone yeah I
[TS]
01:43:05
◼
►
do think it might be discounted in some
[TS]
01:43:07
◼
►
ways but it's different than the
[TS]
01:43:09
◼
►
independent messaging platforms like
[TS]
01:43:11
◼
►
what do it make
[TS]
01:43:12
◼
►
yeah but if you broke it out if I messes
[TS]
01:43:14
◼
►
was actually available on Android and
[TS]
01:43:16
◼
►
and why is that's all that matters yes
[TS]
01:43:19
◼
►
maybe the iMessage category or whatever
[TS]
01:43:24
◼
►
division would be worth a lot but the
[TS]
01:43:26
◼
►
iPhone I think the cost that would be
[TS]
01:43:30
◼
►
borne by the iPhone would actually be
[TS]
01:43:31
◼
►
even greater than that
[TS]
01:43:32
◼
►
right alright anyway when there was that
[TS]
01:43:35
◼
►
rumor last year that Apple was going to
[TS]
01:43:37
◼
►
ship uh I you know I message for Android
[TS]
01:43:40
◼
►
I I do believe in fact I heard from
[TS]
01:43:44
◼
►
people that they're absolutely
[TS]
01:43:46
◼
►
positively were mocks that were floated
[TS]
01:43:48
◼
►
within Apple but that doesn't mean that
[TS]
01:43:50
◼
►
there was ever any serious intention to
[TS]
01:43:52
◼
►
do it it's almost more like well
[TS]
01:43:54
◼
►
why wouldn't there be why wouldn't they
[TS]
01:43:55
◼
►
at least you know sketch out how it
[TS]
01:43:57
◼
►
would work whether they have any
[TS]
01:43:59
◼
►
intention of doing it or not but it just
[TS]
01:44:00
◼
►
seemed to me so unlikely because it
[TS]
01:44:03
◼
►
seemed to me like whatever they would
[TS]
01:44:05
◼
►
get from it they would lose in the
[TS]
01:44:08
◼
►
stickiness that my message gives to the
[TS]
01:44:10
◼
►
phone in terms of yeah any kind of
[TS]
01:44:12
◼
►
temptation you have if you have tons and
[TS]
01:44:15
◼
►
tons of blue bubbles in your text with
[TS]
01:44:17
◼
►
your friends and family any temptation
[TS]
01:44:19
◼
►
you might have to switch to an Android
[TS]
01:44:20
◼
►
phone when it dawns on you that you lose
[TS]
01:44:23
◼
►
all those AI messages and everything
[TS]
01:44:24
◼
►
goes green it's like it maybe not right
[TS]
01:44:28
◼
►
and that's why they in that that's a
[TS]
01:44:30
◼
►
motivation for making AI messages more
[TS]
01:44:33
◼
►
and more have more and more features and
[TS]
01:44:35
◼
►
and things like that I mean I think
[TS]
01:44:36
◼
►
they've done a poor job of it but the
[TS]
01:44:39
◼
►
motivation is to differentiate it from
[TS]
01:44:42
◼
►
SMS even further so that yet to switch
[TS]
01:44:45
◼
►
something else doesn't you know feel it
[TS]
01:44:48
◼
►
feels like a terrible idea
[TS]
01:44:49
◼
►
yeah I mean I I you know I'm not a I'm
[TS]
01:44:53
◼
►
not a big fan of I don't like using
[TS]
01:44:55
◼
►
Android in part I'm not used to it but
[TS]
01:44:57
◼
►
there's there's little things that I
[TS]
01:44:58
◼
►
don't like um that that kinda off the
[TS]
01:45:01
◼
►
wall but without question the but I
[TS]
01:45:04
◼
►
still I have a pixel now I've use
[TS]
01:45:08
◼
►
Android phones occasionally but I
[TS]
01:45:10
◼
►
messages without question the most
[TS]
01:45:13
◼
►
straight-up frustrating aspect of using
[TS]
01:45:16
◼
►
a Android phone for any period of time
[TS]
01:45:18
◼
►
I don't like there's little stuff but I
[TS]
01:45:20
◼
►
need with us a flirt or you can use
[TS]
01:45:21
◼
►
student get over it you can't really get
[TS]
01:45:24
◼
►
past their not being our message right
[TS]
01:45:25
◼
►
but it's interesting to think of
[TS]
01:45:27
◼
►
iMessage as a wholly owned proprietary
[TS]
01:45:29
◼
►
to iOS and Mac OS to a lesser degree
[TS]
01:45:33
◼
►
messaging platform that Apple owns and
[TS]
01:45:36
◼
►
think about this and tell me if you
[TS]
01:45:37
◼
►
think this is interesting hypothetical
[TS]
01:45:39
◼
►
but what if when Instagram was on the
[TS]
01:45:45
◼
►
what if Apple had bought Instagram
[TS]
01:45:46
◼
►
instead of Facebook and kept it
[TS]
01:45:49
◼
►
io io s only is
[TS]
01:45:53
◼
►
interesting I think of I I think it kind
[TS]
01:45:55
◼
►
of is like in the way that people use
[TS]
01:45:57
◼
►
you know that it that the blue bubbles
[TS]
01:46:00
◼
►
are seen as having more status than
[TS]
01:46:02
◼
►
green bubbles like imagine if there were
[TS]
01:46:04
◼
►
tens of millions of people sharing
[TS]
01:46:06
◼
►
photos on Instagram you know and you do
[TS]
01:46:10
◼
►
only wait you couldn't even look at it
[TS]
01:46:11
◼
►
unless you had an iPhone it is really
[TS]
01:46:14
◼
►
interesting I mean because you're it's
[TS]
01:46:16
◼
►
valued destructive uh you know II
[TS]
01:46:19
◼
►
according like theoretically its value
[TS]
01:46:21
◼
►
destructive to by a sort of like
[TS]
01:46:24
◼
►
horizontal service and limit it to we're
[TS]
01:46:27
◼
►
platform in the context of the service
[TS]
01:46:29
◼
►
itself so like Instagram is worth what
[TS]
01:46:31
◼
►
you know however a huge amount of money
[TS]
01:46:35
◼
►
vastly more than Facebook paid for it
[TS]
01:46:38
◼
►
they paid 1 million dollars I don't know
[TS]
01:46:39
◼
►
what I pay 1 billion but I would I
[TS]
01:46:41
◼
►
wouldn't be surprised if they tried to
[TS]
01:46:42
◼
►
sell it now I would I mean I would think
[TS]
01:46:44
◼
►
like 50 billion I don't know I mean it's
[TS]
01:46:46
◼
►
all yes it's worth so much that it's
[TS]
01:46:48
◼
►
almost you know you you have to it's a
[TS]
01:46:52
◼
►
who whatever somebody would be willing
[TS]
01:46:53
◼
►
to pay for it it's kind of like a value
[TS]
01:46:55
◼
►
on it and and they'd be pay they be
[TS]
01:46:57
◼
►
willing to pay a lot but so it would not
[TS]
01:47:00
◼
►
be worth that it by itself but to your
[TS]
01:47:04
◼
►
point by the time
[TS]
01:47:06
◼
►
Android came out and which was like
[TS]
01:47:07
◼
►
three days before Facebook bought it the
[TS]
01:47:11
◼
►
momentum and sort of place that
[TS]
01:47:13
◼
►
Instagram had in sort of like popular
[TS]
01:47:16
◼
►
culture even with only having however
[TS]
01:47:18
◼
►
many users it had it was it was it was a
[TS]
01:47:20
◼
►
thing it was very much a thing just
[TS]
01:47:22
◼
►
being on iOS and yeah I would it still
[TS]
01:47:25
◼
►
be a thing I think that's sort of the
[TS]
01:47:27
◼
►
longer-run question like would it be
[TS]
01:47:28
◼
►
able to maintain that or would a
[TS]
01:47:30
◼
►
cross-platform service really you know
[TS]
01:47:34
◼
►
whether I mean snapchat would probably
[TS]
01:47:37
◼
►
be much better shape today if if Apple
[TS]
01:47:39
◼
►
had done that uh being a something
[TS]
01:47:43
◼
►
that's more broadly accessible and um
[TS]
01:47:46
◼
►
it's a really missing it's a religion
[TS]
01:47:48
◼
►
point I Oh clearly Facebook would have
[TS]
01:47:51
◼
►
been would have if Apple had bought
[TS]
01:47:53
◼
►
Instagram Facebook would have done their
[TS]
01:47:55
◼
►
best given we see what they do with like
[TS]
01:47:57
◼
►
snapchat they would have tried seven
[TS]
01:47:59
◼
►
different ways to copy Instagram you
[TS]
01:48:01
◼
►
know whether it was with a their own new
[TS]
01:48:03
◼
►
app or whether putting it in your
[TS]
01:48:05
◼
►
regular Facebook feed you know just like
[TS]
01:48:06
◼
►
they've copied snapchats stories gimmick
[TS]
01:48:09
◼
►
like seven different ways so maybe it
[TS]
01:48:12
◼
►
would have been Facebook somehow would
[TS]
01:48:13
◼
►
have done it but I still think there's
[TS]
01:48:15
◼
►
something interesting there and the idea
[TS]
01:48:16
◼
►
would be that it would wouldn't
[TS]
01:48:17
◼
►
necessarily like Instagram itself as an
[TS]
01:48:20
◼
►
Apple subsidiary wouldn't be worth
[TS]
01:48:21
◼
►
anywhere near what Instagram is worth
[TS]
01:48:23
◼
►
today it's a Facebook subsidiary with
[TS]
01:48:25
◼
►
all the so many more users but it might
[TS]
01:48:29
◼
►
but with the iPhone be worth that one
[TS]
01:48:31
◼
►
buy the iPhone might be worth more
[TS]
01:48:32
◼
►
because people would be terrified of
[TS]
01:48:34
◼
►
getting a different phone because they
[TS]
01:48:36
◼
►
wouldn't be able to share their stuff to
[TS]
01:48:37
◼
►
Instagram anymore and they've got 4,000
[TS]
01:48:40
◼
►
followers or whatever on Instagram and
[TS]
01:48:42
◼
►
the only way they can keep that going is
[TS]
01:48:44
◼
►
if they keep buying iPhones yeah and I
[TS]
01:48:47
◼
►
can't help but think that that was I've
[TS]
01:48:48
◼
►
never heard this from anybody so this is
[TS]
01:48:51
◼
►
just complete speculation on my part no
[TS]
01:48:53
◼
►
not single birdy has ever said anything
[TS]
01:48:55
◼
►
to me but I thought it was so
[TS]
01:48:56
◼
►
conspicuous I thought it right at the
[TS]
01:48:57
◼
►
time that Instagram for Android shipped
[TS]
01:49:00
◼
►
coincident with their acquisition from
[TS]
01:49:03
◼
►
Facebook like it was only after the
[TS]
01:49:05
◼
►
Facebook acquisition was made official I
[TS]
01:49:08
◼
►
forget if like all the eyes were dotted
[TS]
01:49:10
◼
►
ya know it was like the same week yeah
[TS]
01:49:13
◼
►
you know I cannot help but think that
[TS]
01:49:16
◼
►
Apple might have at least been at the
[TS]
01:49:17
◼
►
table and you know the fact you know
[TS]
01:49:20
◼
►
would be a lot easier to never have had
[TS]
01:49:22
◼
►
an Android version than to sell the
[TS]
01:49:24
◼
►
Apple right exactly exactly Android
[TS]
01:49:26
◼
►
version and I think the only part of it
[TS]
01:49:28
◼
►
that was even interesting to Apple was
[TS]
01:49:30
◼
►
that it was iOS exclusive yeah and
[TS]
01:49:33
◼
►
famously without without question yeah
[TS]
01:49:35
◼
►
Instagram as it is today is not labeled
[TS]
01:49:37
◼
►
it isn't wouldn't know he's not
[TS]
01:49:39
◼
►
available Apple and you're in the end
[TS]
01:49:40
◼
►
right that you're not any cutting at all
[TS]
01:49:42
◼
►
right that's the funny thing is that
[TS]
01:49:43
◼
►
Instagram is more valuable today but it
[TS]
01:49:47
◼
►
wouldn't be more valuable to Apple it
[TS]
01:49:48
◼
►
was only valuable to Apple as an iOS
[TS]
01:49:50
◼
►
exclusive and it emphasizes their
[TS]
01:49:52
◼
►
product marketing that that camera is
[TS]
01:49:54
◼
►
better on the iPhone uh that you know it
[TS]
01:49:57
◼
►
it kind of fit in yeah you know mr.
[TS]
01:50:00
◼
►
Schiller shouldered deleted his
[TS]
01:50:01
◼
►
Instagram account right after that the
[TS]
01:50:04
◼
►
Android version the more you mention it
[TS]
01:50:06
◼
►
yeah I think they probably should have
[TS]
01:50:08
◼
►
done it again
[TS]
01:50:11
◼
►
Instagram would not be worth what it is
[TS]
01:50:12
◼
►
today as a part of Apple and it's very
[TS]
01:50:15
◼
►
possible to your point another network
[TS]
01:50:17
◼
►
will come along against and supplant it
[TS]
01:50:18
◼
►
but would it be
[TS]
01:50:20
◼
►
worth more than 1 billion dollars of
[TS]
01:50:22
◼
►
value to the iPhone franchise without
[TS]
01:50:24
◼
►
question I bet you don't have to sell
[TS]
01:50:27
◼
►
that many marginal iPhones to to make up
[TS]
01:50:30
◼
►
a billion dollars I mean my end yeah
[TS]
01:50:32
◼
►
it's it's a really interesting point and
[TS]
01:50:35
◼
►
even now today I may forget what year
[TS]
01:50:37
◼
►
that was when that happened but even now
[TS]
01:50:39
◼
►
today it's it plays even more into the
[TS]
01:50:43
◼
►
camera emphasis of Apple's iPhone
[TS]
01:50:46
◼
►
product marketing yeah absolutely
[TS]
01:50:48
◼
►
yep I agree I agree is amiss I need the
[TS]
01:50:51
◼
►
real the real shame is any script sold
[TS]
01:50:53
◼
►
at all I mean the I feel like things
[TS]
01:50:55
◼
►
would be so much healthier if I mean
[TS]
01:50:58
◼
►
Instagram is really the purchase that
[TS]
01:51:00
◼
►
cemented Facebook's dominance yep
[TS]
01:51:03
◼
►
because it's its Instagram that that is
[TS]
01:51:06
◼
►
it's different enough from Facebook in a
[TS]
01:51:09
◼
►
way that it really the market need
[TS]
01:51:12
◼
►
market niche that it's filling is uh is
[TS]
01:51:16
◼
►
is really it was really a big a big hole
[TS]
01:51:19
◼
►
for Facebook and it'd be nice was an
[TS]
01:51:23
◼
►
independent company it's yeah yeah and
[TS]
01:51:25
◼
►
it's it a terrific complement to
[TS]
01:51:28
◼
►
Facebook and it's a better Twitter than
[TS]
01:51:30
◼
►
Twitter in some ways or at least a
[TS]
01:51:32
◼
►
Twitter it's a Twitter that knows and I
[TS]
01:51:34
◼
►
love Twitter I do love Twitter and an
[TS]
01:51:36
◼
►
Instagram is of course completely
[TS]
01:51:38
◼
►
pointless and useless for something like
[TS]
01:51:40
◼
►
news like as we speak today 24 hours ago
[TS]
01:51:43
◼
►
we just found out that the Trump fired
[TS]
01:51:46
◼
►
the head of the FBI it was a I'm sure I
[TS]
01:51:50
◼
►
don't know if what you did if you were
[TS]
01:51:52
◼
►
up maybe you were sleeping at the time
[TS]
01:51:53
◼
►
but as soon as you found out about it I
[TS]
01:51:54
◼
►
bet you went to Twitter right right I
[TS]
01:51:57
◼
►
mean you know politics over there side
[TS]
01:51:59
◼
►
when I found out that Trump fired head
[TS]
01:52:01
◼
►
of the FBI is investigating his own
[TS]
01:52:04
◼
►
campaigns ties to Russia I went to
[TS]
01:52:06
◼
►
Twitter to see you know what were the
[TS]
01:52:09
◼
►
news articles that were coming out what
[TS]
01:52:10
◼
►
were people who I was opinion I value on
[TS]
01:52:13
◼
►
such subjects Instagram has nothing to
[TS]
01:52:15
◼
►
do with something like that you don't go
[TS]
01:52:16
◼
►
to Instagram for breaking news but the
[TS]
01:52:18
◼
►
problem that twitter has that's part
[TS]
01:52:19
◼
►
that's that's part of history badly
[TS]
01:52:20
◼
►
right right and that's part why people
[TS]
01:52:22
◼
►
you know it it but it's Twitter like in
[TS]
01:52:27
◼
►
that it's the same basic model that
[TS]
01:52:29
◼
►
Twitter pioneered which is you
[TS]
01:52:33
◼
►
you it's very simple it's it's brilliant
[TS]
01:52:36
◼
►
it seems so obvious but nobody did it
[TS]
01:52:37
◼
►
before Twitter which is you have a feed
[TS]
01:52:40
◼
►
of the things you post and you pick
[TS]
01:52:42
◼
►
people whose feeds you want to see and
[TS]
01:52:45
◼
►
then when you look at the app you see
[TS]
01:52:47
◼
►
all of the posts from the people who
[TS]
01:52:49
◼
►
you've chosen to follow it you know in
[TS]
01:52:52
◼
►
one stream and you scroll down and then
[TS]
01:52:55
◼
►
when you get bored you hit one that
[TS]
01:52:56
◼
►
you've already seen before you stop it's
[TS]
01:52:59
◼
►
like they took that basic model and made
[TS]
01:53:01
◼
►
something that was very self-assured and
[TS]
01:53:03
◼
►
knew exactly what it was for and what
[TS]
01:53:06
◼
►
people would do with it like people
[TS]
01:53:08
◼
►
don't look at Instagram and say I don't
[TS]
01:53:09
◼
►
know what to do with this like they'd
[TS]
01:53:10
◼
►
like a lot of normal people do when they
[TS]
01:53:12
◼
►
see Twitter they're like I don't know
[TS]
01:53:14
◼
►
what I'm looking at right and the end
[TS]
01:53:16
◼
►
photos are are such a and this is
[TS]
01:53:19
◼
►
something that Facebook knew when they
[TS]
01:53:21
◼
►
bought Instagram I mean Facebook was
[TS]
01:53:23
◼
►
built on photos photo sharing but to
[TS]
01:53:26
◼
►
take to be break that down just to a
[TS]
01:53:29
◼
►
stream of individual photos and not only
[TS]
01:53:31
◼
►
that is it super understandable super
[TS]
01:53:32
◼
►
approachable and something people like
[TS]
01:53:34
◼
►
but it went itself very obviously and
[TS]
01:53:36
◼
►
easily to advertising and in a way that
[TS]
01:53:38
◼
►
Twitter you know it's advertising on
[TS]
01:53:41
◼
►
Twitter is is hard like yes you can have
[TS]
01:53:44
◼
►
the promoted tweet thing but it's so
[TS]
01:53:46
◼
►
like you're strolling past it so quickly
[TS]
01:53:48
◼
►
and it's hard to really sort of get
[TS]
01:53:50
◼
►
immersed in it and it's part you know to
[TS]
01:53:52
◼
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start to add more media in part because
[TS]
01:53:54
◼
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it makes a better canvas for advertising
[TS]
01:53:56
◼
►
but just the way you use Twitter is not
[TS]
01:53:58
◼
►
really amenable to it and Twitter's had
[TS]
01:53:59
◼
►
zero luck getting any sort of direct
[TS]
01:54:01
◼
►
response where you see something and you
[TS]
01:54:03
◼
►
take an action that's just not how
[TS]
01:54:04
◼
►
people think and operate when they're on
[TS]
01:54:07
◼
►
Twitter where's Instagram you know
[TS]
01:54:09
◼
►
you've had it there is successes you
[TS]
01:54:11
◼
►
people like put products like people
[TS]
01:54:13
◼
►
mall brands on Instagram because they
[TS]
01:54:14
◼
►
know they like looking at products and
[TS]
01:54:16
◼
►
sometimes they will look at a product I
[TS]
01:54:17
◼
►
want to buy the product and it's another
[TS]
01:54:19
◼
►
baking that possible no I've seen
[TS]
01:54:21
◼
►
product I you know just watch stuff I
[TS]
01:54:24
◼
►
follow a lot of watch accounts on
[TS]
01:54:26
◼
►
Instagram like and for obvious reasons
[TS]
01:54:28
◼
►
the watch stuff is way to me at least
[TS]
01:54:31
◼
►
it's way more interesting on Instagram
[TS]
01:54:33
◼
►
than it is on Twitter because it's all
[TS]
01:54:34
◼
►
visual it's like hey you know take a
[TS]
01:54:36
◼
►
look at this picture of a watch it's if
[TS]
01:54:38
◼
►
you're interested in watches that's you
[TS]
01:54:40
◼
►
know interesting whereas here's some
[TS]
01:54:42
◼
►
text about a watches not really
[TS]
01:54:44
◼
►
interesting I mean but yeah there's
[TS]
01:54:46
◼
►
product shots they have
[TS]
01:54:47
◼
►
thousands and thousands of likes it's
[TS]
01:54:49
◼
►
you know thousands you know it's people
[TS]
01:54:52
◼
►
definitely you know I for an advertiser
[TS]
01:54:55
◼
►
to get likes under ad that's that's a
[TS]
01:54:58
◼
►
huge deal
[TS]
01:54:59
◼
►
like I don't all right like in the rest
[TS]
01:55:02
◼
►
of the web you know they're trying to
[TS]
01:55:05
◼
►
get people from blocking off their heads
[TS]
01:55:07
◼
►
and whereas on Instagram they're looking
[TS]
01:55:09
◼
►
for them and yeah I know is it no it's
[TS]
01:55:12
◼
►
it's like no one is yeah exactly no one
[TS]
01:55:14
◼
►
is I mean some people do complain about
[TS]
01:55:17
◼
►
yeah you know as the getting the ads in
[TS]
01:55:21
◼
►
front of people do plan Instagram to
[TS]
01:55:24
◼
►
two-degree but um same thing with the
[TS]
01:55:26
◼
►
sort of Facebook you know sort of feed
[TS]
01:55:29
◼
►
there's the like what's so brilliant
[TS]
01:55:32
◼
►
about these mobile advertisements and
[TS]
01:55:34
◼
►
why they're actually it turned out never
[TS]
01:55:36
◼
►
ever was how about Oh mobiles were so
[TS]
01:55:38
◼
►
much less prioritized in desktops better
[TS]
01:55:39
◼
►
Baba well it turned out actually no
[TS]
01:55:40
◼
►
mobile was way more valuable you said to
[TS]
01:55:42
◼
►
figure out the format right and what's
[TS]
01:55:44
◼
►
so brilliant about the format of both
[TS]
01:55:45
◼
►
Instagram and Facebook is you
[TS]
01:55:47
◼
►
simultaneously have a much more of a
[TS]
01:55:52
◼
►
grip on a user's attention like an ad on
[TS]
01:55:54
◼
►
Facebook or Instagram literally takes
[TS]
01:55:57
◼
►
over the entire screen of your device
[TS]
01:55:58
◼
►
alright but it's a very but because it's
[TS]
01:56:02
◼
►
embedded in this feed that you're going
[TS]
01:56:03
◼
►
through it doesn't feel nearly as
[TS]
01:56:05
◼
►
obtrusive as I'm looking at this article
[TS]
01:56:07
◼
►
I'm looking at a web page on the on the
[TS]
01:56:09
◼
►
browser right now on the back and
[TS]
01:56:11
◼
►
there's this big banner ad on the side
[TS]
01:56:13
◼
►
it's so annoying and it and despite the
[TS]
01:56:15
◼
►
fact if you actually think about it it's
[TS]
01:56:17
◼
►
not actually obstructing me at all right
[TS]
01:56:19
◼
►
but it feels weird how that via the feed
[TS]
01:56:24
◼
►
is such a perfect advertising vehicle
[TS]
01:56:26
◼
►
right it it's as you know as you know as
[TS]
01:56:28
◼
►
the inventor right it just makes
[TS]
01:56:34
◼
►
intuitive sense to me in that it always
[TS]
01:56:39
◼
►
had it always did from the moment the
[TS]
01:56:41
◼
►
iPhone came out that of course it's
[TS]
01:56:42
◼
►
eventually is going to be a terrific
[TS]
01:56:44
◼
►
place to do advertising in some way like
[TS]
01:56:47
◼
►
the hard part is only figuring out the
[TS]
01:56:48
◼
►
right way but to discount it as less
[TS]
01:56:51
◼
►
valuable ad you have to be a moron
[TS]
01:56:53
◼
►
because it's obviously the device you
[TS]
01:56:56
◼
►
only have to spend two minutes in 2007
[TS]
01:57:00
◼
►
you know looking at an iPhone original
[TS]
01:57:03
◼
►
iPhone owners relationship with their
[TS]
01:57:05
◼
►
phone and see that it's by far and away
[TS]
01:57:07
◼
►
than the most emotionally attached
[TS]
01:57:09
◼
►
computing device that they own it's
[TS]
01:57:11
◼
►
right it's intimate and of course that's
[TS]
01:57:14
◼
►
valuable it's super value and it's with
[TS]
01:57:16
◼
►
them all the time
[TS]
01:57:16
◼
►
if Crockett that not be more valuable
[TS]
01:57:18
◼
►
you know it's again not I'm not saying
[TS]
01:57:20
◼
►
it was obvious at all that something
[TS]
01:57:22
◼
►
like inst you know Instagram I'd be a
[TS]
01:57:24
◼
►
very wealthy man if I had come up with
[TS]
01:57:26
◼
►
the idea for Instagram in 2007 but it I
[TS]
01:57:30
◼
►
just knew though that there was some
[TS]
01:57:31
◼
►
kind of opportunity there right right
[TS]
01:57:34
◼
►
crazed actually a discounted just
[TS]
01:57:36
◼
►
because you couldn't show the same type
[TS]
01:57:37
◼
►
of ads that you could show on that on a
[TS]
01:57:39
◼
►
on the desktop and write it yet let me
[TS]
01:57:43
◼
►
take a break let me take a break here
[TS]
01:57:44
◼
►
and think it our next sponsor unless you
[TS]
01:57:45
◼
►
had a good point to make you have a good
[TS]
01:57:47
◼
►
now I now I know no good point point all
[TS]
01:57:49
◼
►
right our third and final sponsor of the
[TS]
01:57:53
◼
►
episode is our good friends at
[TS]
01:57:56
◼
►
Squarespace look next time you have to
[TS]
01:57:59
◼
►
do something new you got a new company
[TS]
01:58:01
◼
►
you're starting you want to start a
[TS]
01:58:02
◼
►
podcast your own podcast you want to
[TS]
01:58:04
◼
►
start a blog your and it's it's may may
[TS]
01:58:09
◼
►
be your student your graduating you want
[TS]
01:58:10
◼
►
to put together a portfolio site of your
[TS]
01:58:12
◼
►
work do it in Squarespace make your next
[TS]
01:58:15
◼
►
move on Squarespace you want to make a
[TS]
01:58:17
◼
►
website do it on Squarespace I'm telling
[TS]
01:58:19
◼
►
you do it first by the time you spend
[TS]
01:58:22
◼
►
half an hour trying it in Squarespace
[TS]
01:58:24
◼
►
you'll be halfway to have in your thing
[TS]
01:58:26
◼
►
done whereas if you did it by hand you'd
[TS]
01:58:29
◼
►
still be you know learning PHP or
[TS]
01:58:33
◼
►
something like that I'm telling you you
[TS]
01:58:35
◼
►
can make your own website with
[TS]
01:58:36
◼
►
Squarespace with no coding experience no
[TS]
01:58:38
◼
►
programming experience no system
[TS]
01:58:40
◼
►
administrator experience all of that
[TS]
01:58:42
◼
►
stuff is all taken care of it's an
[TS]
01:58:44
◼
►
all-in-one platform this is the thing I
[TS]
01:58:46
◼
►
think people don't know don't get about
[TS]
01:58:47
◼
►
Squarespace is that everything from
[TS]
01:58:51
◼
►
registering your domain name to keeping
[TS]
01:58:52
◼
►
the server running to collecting the
[TS]
01:58:54
◼
►
stats that show you which pages on site
[TS]
01:58:57
◼
►
people are going to and and stuff like
[TS]
01:58:58
◼
►
that it's all there it's all in the
[TS]
01:59:00
◼
►
platform so you don't have to do well
[TS]
01:59:02
◼
►
you do this and then you have it's just
[TS]
01:59:04
◼
►
hosted but then if you want to get stats
[TS]
01:59:06
◼
►
you've got to install some other
[TS]
01:59:07
◼
►
analytics package or something like that
[TS]
01:59:09
◼
►
none of it all of it is right there in
[TS]
01:59:11
◼
►
Squarespace platform
[TS]
01:59:12
◼
►
and the thing I always keep emphasizing
[TS]
01:59:14
◼
►
is they have all these templates to
[TS]
01:59:16
◼
►
choose from but they have so many
[TS]
01:59:17
◼
►
templates and the templates are so
[TS]
01:59:19
◼
►
easily configured with your own graphics
[TS]
01:59:22
◼
►
or fonts or something like that
[TS]
01:59:23
◼
►
that your site doesn't look like a
[TS]
01:59:25
◼
►
cookie cutter Squarespace site I
[TS]
01:59:27
◼
►
guarantee you you you visit Squarespace
[TS]
01:59:29
◼
►
sites every day and don't even realize
[TS]
01:59:30
◼
►
they're Squarespace sites because they
[TS]
01:59:33
◼
►
look original to the brands of the
[TS]
01:59:35
◼
►
company whose site it is so next time
[TS]
01:59:36
◼
►
you need a new website go to Squarespace
[TS]
01:59:39
◼
►
calm and slash talk show and use the
[TS]
01:59:44
◼
►
code Gruber my last name when you
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01:59:46
◼
►
actually fork over the dough and you'll
[TS]
01:59:48
◼
►
save 10% off your first order my thanks
[TS]
01:59:50
◼
►
to Squarespace longtime sponsor the show
[TS]
01:59:53
◼
►
good friends all right we got to get to
[TS]
01:59:57
◼
►
China right this all right
[TS]
01:59:57
◼
►
China right this all right
[TS]
02:00:00
◼
►
no but you're on the show yeah III this
[TS]
02:00:03
◼
►
is my busy season um by busy season I
[TS]
02:00:06
◼
►
mean it's the NBA playoffs so I haven't
[TS]
02:00:09
◼
►
had a chance to listen to the your
[TS]
02:00:12
◼
►
episode last week where I think you
[TS]
02:00:15
◼
►
discuss this by a little bit but it was
[TS]
02:00:17
◼
►
it's what I wrote about was more you
[TS]
02:00:20
◼
►
know if you read my article than here
[TS]
02:00:21
◼
►
you know where I stand
[TS]
02:00:23
◼
►
got it yeah I hope I represented you
[TS]
02:00:26
◼
►
Farrah do you feel like I represented
[TS]
02:00:27
◼
►
you fairly uh yeah I think so I mean I I
[TS]
02:00:30
◼
►
still think I think the part where you
[TS]
02:00:32
◼
►
disagree with me you're wrong which is
[TS]
02:00:34
◼
►
fine because we can we can talk about it
[TS]
02:00:36
◼
►
it should we should because I forgot
[TS]
02:00:38
◼
►
jesting I would say that more like I got
[TS]
02:00:42
◼
►
more hey I usually agree with you but I
[TS]
02:00:44
◼
►
think you're wrong on this I got more of
[TS]
02:00:46
◼
►
that for that that stance then anything
[TS]
02:00:49
◼
►
that in recent memory
[TS]
02:00:50
◼
►
which doesn't make me dig in my heels it
[TS]
02:00:53
◼
►
makes me think there's a good chance I'm
[TS]
02:00:54
◼
►
wrong about this yeah and this is one of
[TS]
02:00:57
◼
►
the great things about writing for the
[TS]
02:00:59
◼
►
web generally that like it like you've
[TS]
02:01:02
◼
►
made this comment before and I've stolen
[TS]
02:01:03
◼
►
it because I think it's such a great way
[TS]
02:01:05
◼
►
to put it the goal I love being right
[TS]
02:01:08
◼
►
but the way you're right is by fixing
[TS]
02:01:12
◼
►
the parts when you're wrong right and
[TS]
02:01:14
◼
►
having tons of people giving you
[TS]
02:01:15
◼
►
feedback and is a great way to get right
[TS]
02:01:18
◼
►
much more quickly than was ever possible
[TS]
02:01:20
◼
►
before right I like to be right all the
[TS]
02:01:22
◼
►
time and a way to be right all the time
[TS]
02:01:24
◼
►
is to catch the times that you're wrong
[TS]
02:01:26
◼
►
and correct them and right is it like
[TS]
02:01:29
◼
►
that I totally stole that right like
[TS]
02:01:30
◼
►
from you but I think it's a great way to
[TS]
02:01:32
◼
►
think about right and too many people
[TS]
02:01:33
◼
►
who want to be right all the time
[TS]
02:01:34
◼
►
it's and let's say they're right most of
[TS]
02:01:37
◼
►
the time it they're defensive about the
[TS]
02:01:42
◼
►
times that are wrong and when they are
[TS]
02:01:43
◼
►
wrong they you see it all the time you
[TS]
02:01:45
◼
►
see it in politics you see it in tech
[TS]
02:01:47
◼
►
you see that anything you follow but
[TS]
02:01:48
◼
►
when they're wrong you can see it that
[TS]
02:01:50
◼
►
they're digging in and trying to spin a
[TS]
02:01:53
◼
►
way to make it that they're right
[TS]
02:01:55
◼
►
whereas the racist thing in the world to
[TS]
02:01:57
◼
►
do is to just publish an update and say
[TS]
02:01:59
◼
►
you know what totally wrong yeah I mean
[TS]
02:02:02
◼
►
I write these every now and then like I
[TS]
02:02:04
◼
►
actually I like it in some respects when
[TS]
02:02:07
◼
►
something comes along that I was wrong
[TS]
02:02:09
◼
►
about and sometimes I'm factually wrong
[TS]
02:02:11
◼
►
or I get and that's fine
[TS]
02:02:13
◼
►
easy correction I just screwed something
[TS]
02:02:14
◼
►
up or whatever I'm like saying that
[TS]
02:02:16
◼
►
there's no touchscreen sometimes like I
[TS]
02:02:19
◼
►
predictions are wrong or my analysis is
[TS]
02:02:21
◼
►
wrong and in some respects I actually
[TS]
02:02:23
◼
►
value that because as soon as that
[TS]
02:02:25
◼
►
happens I will write a big post that I
[TS]
02:02:28
◼
►
will say what I got wrong I'll say why I
[TS]
02:02:30
◼
►
got wrong my thought process that went
[TS]
02:02:32
◼
►
into it what part of my thought process
[TS]
02:02:34
◼
►
in retrospect was incorrect and then the
[TS]
02:02:37
◼
►
value that that accrues is not just that
[TS]
02:02:40
◼
►
now I'm right but also you know it kind
[TS]
02:02:43
◼
►
of gives you capital to say other stuff
[TS]
02:02:46
◼
►
in the future because people will take
[TS]
02:02:47
◼
►
you more seriously because even if you
[TS]
02:02:50
◼
►
what you're saying is wrong like they
[TS]
02:02:53
◼
►
they will know that you're you know you
[TS]
02:02:55
◼
►
won you will correct yourself in the
[TS]
02:02:56
◼
►
future but - there's a process that goes
[TS]
02:03:01
◼
►
into it that it's not just sort of like
[TS]
02:03:03
◼
►
shooting from the hip sort of thing so
[TS]
02:03:04
◼
►
for me I actually think it's not just a
[TS]
02:03:07
◼
►
benefit of the web I don't need an
[TS]
02:03:09
◼
►
editor so although that's that is from a
[TS]
02:03:11
◼
►
very sort of small perspective the case
[TS]
02:03:14
◼
►
I think from a big perspective it's is
[TS]
02:03:16
◼
►
one of the wonderful things about
[TS]
02:03:17
◼
►
writing for a large audience yeah yeah
[TS]
02:03:21
◼
►
and it's sort of I could have chose to
[TS]
02:03:23
◼
►
you know like being happy what every
[TS]
02:03:24
◼
►
once in a while when you you know after
[TS]
02:03:26
◼
►
correct a pretty big error or just you
[TS]
02:03:29
◼
►
know like oh I was convinced that it was
[TS]
02:03:31
◼
►
all doors should open from the left but
[TS]
02:03:34
◼
►
dude that's idiotic sometimes the door
[TS]
02:03:36
◼
►
should open from the right he publishes
[TS]
02:03:39
◼
►
you know you just say it like that it's
[TS]
02:03:41
◼
►
sort of proof that the system works like
[TS]
02:03:43
◼
►
I you know a way of you know I like to
[TS]
02:03:45
◼
►
think that when I'm wrong I will
[TS]
02:03:47
◼
►
recognize it instantly and you know
[TS]
02:03:51
◼
►
swallow my pride and do what I can to to
[TS]
02:03:53
◼
►
fix it as unambiguously as possible but
[TS]
02:03:59
◼
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if I don't do it for a while how do I
[TS]
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know that I'm not even though I think
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that that's what I'm willing to do how
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do I know that I'm not just going into
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denial every time I'm wrong ya know
[TS]
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exactly and this is something that I
[TS]
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think about a ton like this idea of like
[TS]
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confirmation bias where you're you
[TS]
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always look for evidence that supports
[TS]
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your position and and what it takes like
[TS]
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a lot of like discipline to actively
[TS]
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look for reasons why you might be wrong
[TS]
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which I absolutely try to do
[TS]
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but then also just having like I said
[TS]
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the the fact you get instant feedback
[TS]
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and people pushing back on you like
[TS]
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forces you to to think about that I mean
[TS]
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it's wonder yeah so any I'll is just
[TS]
02:04:37
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stay sort of meta sort of commentary the
[TS]
02:04:41
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oh so go ahead well I I think a good
[TS]
02:04:43
◼
►
example of that I think probably the the
[TS]
02:04:45
◼
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review that I'm as a product review that
[TS]
02:04:48
◼
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I probably did the worst job on was the
[TS]
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◼
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original Apple watch and that's why I
[TS]
02:04:51
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like a month later I wrote like a second
[TS]
02:04:53
◼
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one was more or less the same basic idea
[TS]
02:04:55
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of here's this new product from Apple
[TS]
02:04:58
◼
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what is it what do I think about it like
[TS]
02:05:00
◼
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the first one was just it I don't know
[TS]
02:05:04
◼
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it wasn't awful but it wasn't like
[TS]
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◼
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poorly written but just I just never sat
[TS]
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right with me and rereading it a month
[TS]
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later I was like just I did I don't know
[TS]
02:05:11
◼
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it felt like a swing on a mess and I
[TS]
02:05:14
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feel like part of the problem was that
[TS]
02:05:16
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it was it was too much of a what's good
[TS]
02:05:20
◼
►
about this product review whereas it
[TS]
02:05:22
◼
►
should have you know it wasn't it was
[TS]
02:05:24
◼
►
written from that perspective I don't
[TS]
02:05:26
◼
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know if that's quite confirmation bias
[TS]
02:05:28
◼
►
but it's it Apple wouldn't do this if
[TS]
02:05:31
◼
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they didn't have a good reason to do it
[TS]
02:05:32
◼
►
so what are those good reasons whereas
[TS]
02:05:34
◼
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think the story was more this is a you
[TS]
02:05:37
◼
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know especially that 1.0 watch was this
[TS]
02:05:39
◼
►
is a product that doesn't really know
[TS]
02:05:40
◼
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what it's good for
[TS]
02:05:41
◼
►
yeah yeah no I mean it's funny I I was
[TS]
02:05:45
◼
►
all over the place on the watch my
[TS]
02:05:47
◼
►
original take was that which is like
[TS]
02:05:49
◼
►
this is a product that is lacking vision
[TS]
02:05:51
◼
►
like it doesn't know what it is
[TS]
02:05:52
◼
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I think that's get more accurate
[TS]
02:05:54
◼
►
writings I was then I went back and I in
[TS]
02:05:57
◼
►
I actually fell into the like I had too
[TS]
02:05:59
◼
►
much faith in Apple like dunno really
[TS]
02:06:01
◼
►
are they really just watching this
[TS]
02:06:02
◼
►
beautiful device and then that's really
[TS]
02:06:04
◼
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the point and and so I actually went
[TS]
02:06:07
◼
►
back and changed my mind and that this
[TS]
02:06:08
◼
►
very notorious contentious episode of
[TS]
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◼
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exponent were being James arguing about
[TS]
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◼
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it and then I and then eventually I
[TS]
02:06:14
◼
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didn't back my in this case my fix was
[TS]
02:06:18
◼
►
actually wrong and worse and so I had to
[TS]
02:06:20
◼
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go back into like you know actually I
[TS]
02:06:22
◼
►
had it right the first time and now it's
[TS]
02:06:24
◼
►
a I hate that I hate that that happened
[TS]
02:06:26
◼
►
especially because I actually had it
[TS]
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◼
►
right the first time but yeah I mean
[TS]
02:06:31
◼
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whatever it happens if you're giving
[TS]
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◼
►
your if you're giving your analysis or
[TS]
02:06:36
◼
►
opinion four days a week you're going to
[TS]
02:06:38
◼
►
get it wrong which is fine as long as
[TS]
02:06:40
◼
►
you as long as you correct it so you you
[TS]
02:06:41
◼
►
run in as we've spoken about this that
[TS]
02:06:45
◼
►
we you don't right Stratego e is not
[TS]
02:06:48
◼
►
it's the tech in general I mean and if
[TS]
02:06:51
◼
►
you tend to fight against er tech reef
[TS]
02:06:53
◼
►
so to take your attacker ease detectors
[TS]
02:06:56
◼
►
a daiquiri tech about tech I honestly
[TS]
02:06:59
◼
►
don't even do it to brass you I honestly
[TS]
02:07:01
◼
►
have done it I though I make it a
[TS]
02:07:03
◼
►
certain amount the mister I pronounce it
[TS]
02:07:05
◼
►
differently at the beginning so I made
[TS]
02:07:07
◼
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it even worse is already a bad name and
[TS]
02:07:09
◼
►
I made it worse so it's all 100 my fault
[TS]
02:07:12
◼
►
but alas it is what it is so um I just
[TS]
02:07:17
◼
►
tell people why people as what my slide
[TS]
02:07:19
◼
►
I just um to search for Ben Thompson on
[TS]
02:07:20
◼
►
Google because the that's the to don't
[TS]
02:07:23
◼
►
Jason freed thing like we were talking
[TS]
02:07:24
◼
►
about domain names like for years and
[TS]
02:07:26
◼
►
years base camp
[TS]
02:07:27
◼
►
they didn't have base camp comm they
[TS]
02:07:28
◼
►
have it now but they just had basecamphq
[TS]
02:07:31
◼
►
calm because he didn't yeah he didn't
[TS]
02:07:33
◼
►
you know somebody had base camp dot-com
[TS]
02:07:35
◼
►
and he didn't feel like paying their
[TS]
02:07:36
◼
►
exorbitant price he did eventually but
[TS]
02:07:38
◼
►
he was like screw it people just google
[TS]
02:07:39
◼
►
for base camp anyway right it is true
[TS]
02:07:43
◼
►
anyway I you've written about this like
[TS]
02:07:48
◼
►
so you don't um it's certainly not your
[TS]
02:07:51
◼
►
writing is not Apple focused it not even
[TS]
02:07:54
◼
►
in a way that mine is but you certainly
[TS]
02:07:55
◼
►
do right enough about apples simply
[TS]
02:07:57
◼
►
because if you write about tech in
[TS]
02:07:58
◼
►
general Apple is kind of a big company
[TS]
02:08:01
◼
►
and they kind of do enter a lot of tend
[TS]
02:08:03
◼
►
to do interesting things but you've
[TS]
02:08:04
◼
►
spoken about this that when you write
[TS]
02:08:06
◼
►
articles or have like a column that's
[TS]
02:08:08
◼
►
sort of critical of Apple you you get
[TS]
02:08:11
◼
►
like on subscriptions sometimes it so
[TS]
02:08:13
◼
►
yeah I don't want to hear it no way
[TS]
02:08:16
◼
►
that's always been the case I mean it
[TS]
02:08:17
◼
►
was so when I started I wrote a lot more
[TS]
02:08:19
◼
►
probably even more about Apple in part
[TS]
02:08:22
◼
►
because that was the company I knew the
[TS]
02:08:23
◼
►
best like I've been following closely
[TS]
02:08:24
◼
►
I'd written like I'd written a huge
[TS]
02:08:26
◼
►
paper about them in school uh like in I
[TS]
02:08:29
◼
►
spent a lot of time trying to understand
[TS]
02:08:32
◼
►
and think about what made them
[TS]
02:08:33
◼
►
successful and I was saying in turn
[TS]
02:08:34
◼
►
there um it at a university would in
[TS]
02:08:37
◼
►
what God came to learn and understand so
[TS]
02:08:40
◼
►
much about sort of the inner workings it
[TS]
02:08:42
◼
►
was a fantastic experience and
[TS]
02:08:43
◼
►
especially when I started also it was
[TS]
02:08:45
◼
►
when the whole Samsung is gonna is
[TS]
02:08:48
◼
►
disrupting Apple narrative was was in
[TS]
02:08:51
◼
►
was in place
[TS]
02:08:52
◼
►
and so I got tons of articles saying
[TS]
02:08:54
◼
►
this is dumb like India trying to
[TS]
02:08:56
◼
►
explain Apple and their differentiation
[TS]
02:08:58
◼
►
and back then it was controversial to
[TS]
02:09:00
◼
►
say that iOS it was not going to be
[TS]
02:09:03
◼
►
swamped by Android and developers
[TS]
02:09:04
◼
►
working awfully on mass and all the sort
[TS]
02:09:06
◼
►
of stuff like that was still a thing
[TS]
02:09:07
◼
►
back then yeah so I am an iPhone dead in
[TS]
02:09:11
◼
►
the water Henry Blodgett right right and
[TS]
02:09:13
◼
►
and the biggest you know as I've
[TS]
02:09:16
◼
►
recounted the sort of biggest event in
[TS]
02:09:19
◼
►
the early church every day's for gaining
[TS]
02:09:21
◼
►
readership was you linking to me and
[TS]
02:09:22
◼
►
saying you know this is a fantastic new
[TS]
02:09:24
◼
►
blog and you wink too much are a bunch
[TS]
02:09:26
◼
►
of articles and as per kind of like this
[TS]
02:09:28
◼
►
column this week like oh this is a great
[TS]
02:09:30
◼
►
blog the really good biloba but for the
[TS]
02:09:33
◼
►
first time I disagree with mr. Thomson
[TS]
02:09:34
◼
►
that he like explained where explain
[TS]
02:09:36
◼
►
where I was wrong um which but that was
[TS]
02:09:39
◼
►
an outright disagreement though not this
[TS]
02:09:41
◼
►
time this time it's like I said it's a
[TS]
02:09:42
◼
►
subtle difference of of wait I would say
[TS]
02:09:46
◼
►
yeah and I actually I actually think
[TS]
02:09:48
◼
►
you're right in that case um and so it
[TS]
02:09:50
◼
►
was definitely right back then I was
[TS]
02:09:53
◼
►
just waited that's the I was just really
[TS]
02:09:55
◼
►
I was just waiting for you to make a
[TS]
02:09:56
◼
►
mistake and then I knew I could link to
[TS]
02:09:58
◼
►
you because then instead of just saying
[TS]
02:09:59
◼
►
how great it was I could also point out
[TS]
02:10:00
◼
►
that you made an error and you're
[TS]
02:10:02
◼
►
thinking I was just a hit for it would
[TS]
02:10:05
◼
►
the the lot of service always sort of my
[TS]
02:10:07
◼
►
initial and then after that I got linked
[TS]
02:10:09
◼
►
to by Marco a couple times and so I
[TS]
02:10:11
◼
►
really started in the sort of Apple
[TS]
02:10:13
◼
►
blogosphere is where awareness of me
[TS]
02:10:16
◼
►
started to grow so a lot of my initial
[TS]
02:10:18
◼
►
followers were were in that in that
[TS]
02:10:22
◼
►
arena so if that's forward like a year
[TS]
02:10:24
◼
►
or something and I wrote something about
[TS]
02:10:26
◼
►
Apple and services and basically I was a
[TS]
02:10:29
◼
►
this was a I said it was in a good point
[TS]
02:10:32
◼
►
it's a point that I brought up again and
[TS]
02:10:34
◼
►
again is how companies are sort of
[TS]
02:10:35
◼
►
shaped by their by their origin and
[TS]
02:10:37
◼
►
they're there and that influences the
[TS]
02:10:41
◼
►
culture and the way they approach
[TS]
02:10:42
◼
►
products for the entire life of a
[TS]
02:10:44
◼
►
company and I gave talk about Google
[TS]
02:10:45
◼
►
talked about Microsoft talked about
[TS]
02:10:46
◼
►
Apple talked about a bunch of examples
[TS]
02:10:48
◼
►
and this case I was make trying to
[TS]
02:10:49
◼
►
explain that Apple struggle with
[TS]
02:10:53
◼
►
services not because they're dumb but
[TS]
02:10:55
◼
►
because they're so great at products and
[TS]
02:10:57
◼
►
this is a point you know obviously I've
[TS]
02:10:58
◼
►
returned to this point in the past like
[TS]
02:11:00
◼
►
to say that Apple strove the services is
[TS]
02:11:02
◼
►
not to criticize Apple or say they're
[TS]
02:11:04
◼
►
dumb people it's
[TS]
02:11:06
◼
►
in a recognition that the same things
[TS]
02:11:08
◼
►
that make Apple the best product company
[TS]
02:11:11
◼
►
an amazing product company work against
[TS]
02:11:13
◼
►
being a great services company right ETL
[TS]
02:11:16
◼
►
people didn't want to hear after people
[TS]
02:11:18
◼
►
did not want to hear it so I had just
[TS]
02:11:20
◼
►
started the daily update then and so my
[TS]
02:11:23
◼
►
you know my subscriber numbers were in
[TS]
02:11:24
◼
►
the you know I think at that point as
[TS]
02:11:26
◼
►
only a couple months in so maybe the low
[TS]
02:11:27
◼
►
hundreds and I got like 20 or 30 like
[TS]
02:11:31
◼
►
unsubscription like immediately people
[TS]
02:11:33
◼
►
were met and it was it was shocking like
[TS]
02:11:36
◼
►
I did not expect that to come at all um
[TS]
02:11:38
◼
►
it was good it was a good lesson to
[TS]
02:11:40
◼
►
learn like the people were cared more
[TS]
02:11:43
◼
►
about Apple than they did about me and
[TS]
02:11:45
◼
►
that's fine I have no no problem with
[TS]
02:11:47
◼
►
that and over time you know certainly
[TS]
02:11:48
◼
►
I've come to build up you know a user
[TS]
02:11:52
◼
►
base and when the great things why model
[TS]
02:11:53
◼
►
is it's ten dollars a month so if you
[TS]
02:11:54
◼
►
want to quit it doesn't really affect me
[TS]
02:11:55
◼
►
my life in the slightest which is great
[TS]
02:11:58
◼
►
but I actually love that about about
[TS]
02:12:00
◼
►
this model but yeah it's funny whenever
[TS]
02:12:02
◼
►
I write something that is not purely
[TS]
02:12:06
◼
►
optimistic about Apple there is
[TS]
02:12:07
◼
►
definitely an uptick in people turning
[TS]
02:12:10
◼
►
off auto renewal and there are other
[TS]
02:12:12
◼
►
subscriptions I've seen it on sports
[TS]
02:12:14
◼
►
- like I follow some Yankees beat
[TS]
02:12:16
◼
►
writers on tweeter Twitter and every
[TS]
02:12:19
◼
►
once in a while they'll get an argument
[TS]
02:12:20
◼
►
with people and there's a certain
[TS]
02:12:21
◼
►
certain flavor of Yankee fan who just
[TS]
02:12:25
◼
►
doesn't want to hear it that the Yankees
[TS]
02:12:27
◼
►
aren't the best team in baseball now
[TS]
02:12:28
◼
►
this year they actually are the best
[TS]
02:12:29
◼
►
team in baseball but but like last year
[TS]
02:12:32
◼
►
last couple of years the Yankees have
[TS]
02:12:33
◼
►
been kind of you know there haven't been
[TS]
02:12:36
◼
►
bad they haven't had a losing season but
[TS]
02:12:37
◼
►
there clearly were not going anywhere
[TS]
02:12:39
◼
►
you know weren't going to win a
[TS]
02:12:41
◼
►
championship and any kind of sports
[TS]
02:12:43
◼
►
coverage along the lines of you know
[TS]
02:12:45
◼
►
it's not really a great strategy to be
[TS]
02:12:47
◼
►
paying 27 million dollars to a 41 41
[TS]
02:12:50
◼
►
year old Alex Rodriguez with a bad hip
[TS]
02:12:53
◼
►
and the Yankees fans like wow what well
[TS]
02:12:55
◼
►
how can you you know why do you want to
[TS]
02:12:56
◼
►
write about the Yankees if you hate them
[TS]
02:12:57
◼
►
so much
[TS]
02:12:58
◼
►
right like unfollow and it's like
[TS]
02:13:01
◼
►
actually he's just sort of an expert on
[TS]
02:13:03
◼
►
baseball and he's pointing out something
[TS]
02:13:04
◼
►
that's actually pretty obvious which is
[TS]
02:13:06
◼
►
that you know having old people on your
[TS]
02:13:09
◼
►
team is not a good way to win it sports
[TS]
02:13:11
◼
►
yeah and I it's a great it's a great
[TS]
02:13:13
◼
►
thing for Apple it's one of Apple's
[TS]
02:13:14
◼
►
really core strengths is the the
[TS]
02:13:19
◼
►
devotion that Apple has fans right like
[TS]
02:13:22
◼
►
it's that's not a from a business
[TS]
02:13:24
◼
►
perspective I look I put my business a
[TS]
02:13:25
◼
►
nose hat on and I that's amazing and
[TS]
02:13:28
◼
►
it's something that Apple uses as a tool
[TS]
02:13:31
◼
►
as a strategic tool again and again like
[TS]
02:13:34
◼
►
they that's that's how the iPhone know
[TS]
02:13:38
◼
►
they would go into a country and they
[TS]
02:13:40
◼
►
would dictate terms and deleting
[TS]
02:13:43
◼
►
carriers would say no and then they go
[TS]
02:13:45
◼
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the second place carrier and often they
[TS]
02:13:46
◼
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say no they go to third place carrier
[TS]
02:13:48
◼
►
who's desperate to catch up and say okay
[TS]
02:13:51
◼
►
we accept your terms and then the iPhone
[TS]
02:13:53
◼
►
is on the carrier like Japan is probably
[TS]
02:13:55
◼
►
the classic example of this Softbank was
[TS]
02:13:57
◼
►
well in third place and the iPhone is on
[TS]
02:14:00
◼
►
Softbank and people started switching
[TS]
02:14:04
◼
►
their carriers which they never did
[TS]
02:14:06
◼
►
before to get the iPhone and by and
[TS]
02:14:09
◼
►
large particularly at the beginning they
[TS]
02:14:11
◼
►
were Apple fans who already loved Apple
[TS]
02:14:13
◼
►
loved Apple products desperately wanted
[TS]
02:14:14
◼
►
an iPhone and they switched this
[TS]
02:14:16
◼
►
happened the US was eight with AT&T same
[TS]
02:14:17
◼
►
thing and over time then Apple could
[TS]
02:14:20
◼
►
eventually now the iPhone is on all the
[TS]
02:14:23
◼
►
carriers and it's on Apple's terms with
[TS]
02:14:25
◼
►
all of them and that's all because of
[TS]
02:14:27
◼
►
the devotion that people have the Apple
[TS]
02:14:29
◼
►
it's an amazing it's a it's an amazing
[TS]
02:14:31
◼
►
tool well uh what what a weird duck the
[TS]
02:14:35
◼
►
Verizon iPhone 4 was right it's like
[TS]
02:14:38
◼
►
that it's like the only sort of half
[TS]
02:14:40
◼
►
live phone that was ever made like it's
[TS]
02:14:42
◼
►
not just like when we'll get to this in
[TS]
02:14:43
◼
►
a minute or two but not like oK we've
[TS]
02:14:45
◼
►
made the pie from seven in red I mean
[TS]
02:14:48
◼
►
that's just a color it was available in
[TS]
02:14:51
◼
►
white though because remember the white
[TS]
02:14:52
◼
►
phone was super delayed yeah but when
[TS]
02:14:55
◼
►
the Verizon one shipped it the white one
[TS]
02:14:56
◼
►
still wasn't even out so like I think
[TS]
02:14:58
◼
►
the Verizon won't shipped in early
[TS]
02:15:00
◼
►
February but it was weird it I thought
[TS]
02:15:02
◼
►
it was the same time yeah but we are
[TS]
02:15:04
◼
►
like it was still weird yeah yeah it was
[TS]
02:15:05
◼
►
like eight months later and had a
[TS]
02:15:07
◼
►
different antenna you know had the the
[TS]
02:15:09
◼
►
modern iPhone 4s antenna design not the
[TS]
02:15:12
◼
►
the slightly problematic and tenha gate
[TS]
02:15:15
◼
►
one from the
[TS]
02:15:17
◼
►
the GSM version anyway what a weird
[TS]
02:15:19
◼
►
thing all right so let's do this yes so
[TS]
02:15:25
◼
►
the yeah so basically the overall
[TS]
02:15:28
◼
►
premise is that in China the user
[TS]
02:15:33
◼
►
interface WeChat is so dominant that it
[TS]
02:15:37
◼
►
reduces sort of the software lock-in
[TS]
02:15:40
◼
►
that an iPhone has which makes it more
[TS]
02:15:43
◼
►
viable to switch a very sort of high
[TS]
02:15:46
◼
►
level that's it and I would just kind of
[TS]
02:15:48
◼
►
tap down one level which means when I
[TS]
02:15:51
◼
►
talk about the the walk-in it's not just
[TS]
02:15:53
◼
►
a walk-in in in that there's no iMessage
[TS]
02:15:55
◼
►
or that apps are available in both
[TS]
02:15:57
◼
►
platforms which is the case I mean
[TS]
02:15:58
◼
►
there's no app that's why I use in China
[TS]
02:16:00
◼
►
that's not available on Android like
[TS]
02:16:02
◼
►
it's not really an iOS first sort of
[TS]
02:16:04
◼
►
environment the way it is in the US
[TS]
02:16:07
◼
►
we're even still there'll be hot new
[TS]
02:16:09
◼
►
apps that are there iOS only to start so
[TS]
02:16:11
◼
►
that's not so that's part of it but also
[TS]
02:16:13
◼
►
it's not just the apps it's the
[TS]
02:16:15
◼
►
interaction it's the user interface when
[TS]
02:16:18
◼
►
you're in one app all the time you're
[TS]
02:16:20
◼
►
using that app and that's the dominant
[TS]
02:16:23
◼
►
way that you experience your phone
[TS]
02:16:24
◼
►
whereas in the u.s. yes we may use
[TS]
02:16:27
◼
►
Facebook and uber and and PayPal or or
[TS]
02:16:32
◼
►
Square cash or whatever it might be that
[TS]
02:16:34
◼
►
are all analogs for WeChat functions but
[TS]
02:16:37
◼
►
every time you switch an app every time
[TS]
02:16:39
◼
►
use the app switcher every time you go
[TS]
02:16:40
◼
►
back to the home screen
[TS]
02:16:41
◼
►
that's all interact with the operating
[TS]
02:16:43
◼
►
system your interact with the operating
[TS]
02:16:44
◼
►
system constantly on and Ayana and in
[TS]
02:16:48
◼
►
China you're not really interacting with
[TS]
02:16:52
◼
►
the operating system at all so there's
[TS]
02:16:53
◼
►
no even the little niggling things about
[TS]
02:16:56
◼
►
moving stuff around is is reduced and so
[TS]
02:17:01
◼
►
the lock-in is not just about a actual
[TS]
02:17:04
◼
►
like on paper locking it's like in the
[TS]
02:17:06
◼
►
user experience lock-in is less as well
[TS]
02:17:09
◼
►
it almost sounds to me like it's used
[TS]
02:17:11
◼
►
for so much that it's actually a problem
[TS]
02:17:13
◼
►
that iOS doesn't let you define you know
[TS]
02:17:18
◼
►
like like they don't show the icon
[TS]
02:17:21
◼
►
anymore but you know how like from the
[TS]
02:17:22
◼
►
lockscreen you can jump right to the
[TS]
02:17:23
◼
►
camera by swiping to the side and when
[TS]
02:17:25
◼
►
they first introduced that feature they
[TS]
02:17:27
◼
►
had a little camera icon in
[TS]
02:17:28
◼
►
corner right yell and you could like I
[TS]
02:17:30
◼
►
think used to drag up instead of drag
[TS]
02:17:32
◼
►
over um like they've changed the
[TS]
02:17:34
◼
►
interaction but the idea is here's an
[TS]
02:17:37
◼
►
app that's so important and you know
[TS]
02:17:40
◼
►
obviously cameras a little different
[TS]
02:17:41
◼
►
than we chat because camera it might be
[TS]
02:17:42
◼
►
a fleeting moment you're trying to
[TS]
02:17:44
◼
►
capture so the being able to get there
[TS]
02:17:45
◼
►
quick it's not just that you use it a
[TS]
02:17:46
◼
►
lot but that getting there quickly
[TS]
02:17:48
◼
►
from a locked phone can be the
[TS]
02:17:50
◼
►
difference between getting the shot not
[TS]
02:17:52
◼
►
getting the shot um but iOS doesn't let
[TS]
02:17:55
◼
►
you do things like say let me put WeChat
[TS]
02:17:58
◼
►
on my lock screen so I can jump right to
[TS]
02:18:01
◼
►
we chat from a locked phone right away
[TS]
02:18:04
◼
►
like you did none of that's configurable
[TS]
02:18:06
◼
►
and it sounds to me like we chat is so
[TS]
02:18:07
◼
►
central into the experience in China
[TS]
02:18:09
◼
►
that the iPhone would be a better OS if
[TS]
02:18:12
◼
►
you could yeah well it's not it in many
[TS]
02:18:16
◼
►
respects all the all the sort of lock in
[TS]
02:18:18
◼
►
things on an iPhone that are
[TS]
02:18:20
◼
►
occasionally mild irritants uh you know
[TS]
02:18:23
◼
►
here but by and large the iPhone like
[TS]
02:18:25
◼
►
the Apple's built-in stuff is usually
[TS]
02:18:27
◼
►
good enough that it's it's fine like you
[TS]
02:18:29
◼
►
know you can't switch the default
[TS]
02:18:30
◼
►
browser you can switch the default email
[TS]
02:18:31
◼
►
client or all sorts that little stuff
[TS]
02:18:34
◼
►
that that can be kind of irritating if
[TS]
02:18:35
◼
►
you care but at the end of the day it's
[TS]
02:18:37
◼
►
not that big a deal in China it's much
[TS]
02:18:39
◼
►
more of it's much more of an irritant
[TS]
02:18:41
◼
►
like any member Android there is is
[TS]
02:18:43
◼
►
completely it's not Google Android it's
[TS]
02:18:46
◼
►
all it they're all like Chinese variants
[TS]
02:18:49
◼
►
and and a lot of them are offer much
[TS]
02:18:52
◼
►
more sort of flexibility Zi and Whittle
[TS]
02:18:56
◼
►
you know they just use phones kind of
[TS]
02:18:59
◼
►
differently than we do here and so in
[TS]
02:19:00
◼
►
some respects and iPhone is not just
[TS]
02:19:02
◼
►
it's not just that because you're most
[TS]
02:19:04
◼
►
using WeChat the experience is mostly
[TS]
02:19:06
◼
►
the same in some respects it's arguably
[TS]
02:19:09
◼
►
actually worse in a way that it isn't
[TS]
02:19:11
◼
►
you know in other parts of the world
[TS]
02:19:12
◼
►
yeah then that's that is terrible for
[TS]
02:19:16
◼
►
Apple and so let's just say this before
[TS]
02:19:18
◼
►
we get into speculation or analysts but
[TS]
02:19:21
◼
►
it's just a fact it's a statement of
[TS]
02:19:23
◼
►
fact that iPhone sales in China are down
[TS]
02:19:25
◼
►
year over year I think in the just
[TS]
02:19:27
◼
►
completed quarter they were down 14%
[TS]
02:19:30
◼
►
yeah in the second year in a row they
[TS]
02:19:33
◼
►
were down even more last year
[TS]
02:19:34
◼
►
two years in a row and until then there
[TS]
02:19:37
◼
►
were the the it was it it was an
[TS]
02:19:41
◼
►
increase it's it's sharp
[TS]
02:19:42
◼
►
different it's almost like a v-shaped
[TS]
02:19:43
◼
►
curve I think it's fair to say where it
[TS]
02:19:46
◼
►
was it was rising very quickly you're
[TS]
02:19:48
◼
►
over a year and then all of a sudden now
[TS]
02:19:50
◼
►
it's dropping your veer wasn't like it
[TS]
02:19:51
◼
►
was off for a while
[TS]
02:19:53
◼
►
there's no plateau really I don't think
[TS]
02:19:55
◼
►
and so why I mean it's a fact that
[TS]
02:19:58
◼
►
iPhone sales are down it is also we
[TS]
02:20:01
◼
►
can't say it's a fact but there's least
[TS]
02:20:03
◼
►
to market research studies like you you
[TS]
02:20:06
◼
►
found one that was written in Chinese
[TS]
02:20:08
◼
►
and then there's another one that
[TS]
02:20:09
◼
►
Business Insider linked up last year I
[TS]
02:20:12
◼
►
forget who some us analyst firm but both
[TS]
02:20:15
◼
►
of them found roughly the same thing
[TS]
02:20:16
◼
►
which is that um in 2016 in China iPhone
[TS]
02:20:21
◼
►
users people who already owned an iPhone
[TS]
02:20:23
◼
►
and they if they bought a new smartphone
[TS]
02:20:25
◼
►
only about 50 to 55 percent of them
[TS]
02:20:28
◼
►
bought another iPhone and in the rest of
[TS]
02:20:31
◼
►
the world that number ranges from around
[TS]
02:20:34
◼
►
there like the mid 70s in Japan to the
[TS]
02:20:36
◼
►
mid 80s in the US and UK and the high
[TS]
02:20:38
◼
►
80s in Germany and so we can't say it's
[TS]
02:20:43
◼
►
a fact that 50 percent of Chinese iPhone
[TS]
02:20:46
◼
►
users bought an Android phone last year
[TS]
02:20:48
◼
►
but we can say it's a fact that to
[TS]
02:20:49
◼
►
market research studies that seem pretty
[TS]
02:20:51
◼
►
well rigorously performed to me say so
[TS]
02:20:54
◼
►
right and it's shown in Apple's numbers
[TS]
02:20:57
◼
►
- I mean there's there several there's
[TS]
02:20:59
◼
►
several data points to triangulate on
[TS]
02:21:01
◼
►
here right in it that in that that's a
[TS]
02:21:03
◼
►
like that's a stunning difference like
[TS]
02:21:05
◼
►
it's not like it's one it's not small
[TS]
02:21:07
◼
►
but - I mean one of the real points that
[TS]
02:21:11
◼
►
I talked about going back to those Apple
[TS]
02:21:13
◼
►
arguments you know back when I first
[TS]
02:21:14
◼
►
started checker II like one of the core
[TS]
02:21:16
◼
►
things that was critical to understand
[TS]
02:21:18
◼
►
with the iPhone is that iPhone users
[TS]
02:21:19
◼
►
bought new iPhones and Android users
[TS]
02:21:22
◼
►
often changed and if you just play that
[TS]
02:21:25
◼
►
out in the long run in a saturated
[TS]
02:21:27
◼
►
market that's actually the Apple's favor
[TS]
02:21:29
◼
►
because they're going to keep their
[TS]
02:21:30
◼
►
users and they're just going to slowly
[TS]
02:21:32
◼
►
keep adding other ones and that's what
[TS]
02:21:34
◼
►
is actually happening what's so
[TS]
02:21:35
◼
►
interesting about this this core the
[TS]
02:21:38
◼
►
iPhone 7 both this quarter and last
[TS]
02:21:40
◼
►
quarter is that if you exclude China
[TS]
02:21:42
◼
►
it's a smashing success
[TS]
02:21:43
◼
►
yeah like it is still growing and it's
[TS]
02:21:46
◼
►
growing nicely and it's growing in
[TS]
02:21:48
◼
►
quote-unquote saturated markets and this
[TS]
02:21:50
◼
►
is exactly in this is something that
[TS]
02:21:52
◼
►
I've been I've been writing since way
[TS]
02:21:54
◼
►
back when that actually a saturated
[TS]
02:21:56
◼
►
is going to be good for Apple because of
[TS]
02:21:58
◼
►
this you know if you just pull out the
[TS]
02:22:00
◼
►
math and Tim Cook has made that point
[TS]
02:22:02
◼
►
but it's more compelling from you
[TS]
02:22:04
◼
►
because he is to draw about her well
[TS]
02:22:07
◼
►
yeah you and I were chatting about this
[TS]
02:22:09
◼
►
and you you completely convinced me you
[TS]
02:22:11
◼
►
you you you made me rethink my take on
[TS]
02:22:14
◼
►
apples just complete a quarter that is
[TS]
02:22:17
◼
►
actually pretty good except that it's
[TS]
02:22:19
◼
►
really stinky in China right and in it's
[TS]
02:22:23
◼
►
good in a it's good in an understandable
[TS]
02:22:25
◼
►
predictable way right it's not like
[TS]
02:22:27
◼
►
these these growing numbers like wow
[TS]
02:22:29
◼
►
look at Apple growing no if you actually
[TS]
02:22:31
◼
►
think through and you you've talked
[TS]
02:22:33
◼
►
about it before why advertising would be
[TS]
02:22:35
◼
►
compelling on mobile because mobile is
[TS]
02:22:36
◼
►
so important to your life well if mobile
[TS]
02:22:38
◼
►
is so important to your life
[TS]
02:22:40
◼
►
that means of all the objects even if
[TS]
02:22:42
◼
►
you have to save money or cut costs
[TS]
02:22:43
◼
►
what's the one object you're actually
[TS]
02:22:46
◼
►
going to splurge on all right probably
[TS]
02:22:48
◼
►
the object that's the single most
[TS]
02:22:49
◼
►
important object in your life right and
[TS]
02:22:51
◼
►
that's the iPhone that's Apple and the
[TS]
02:22:53
◼
►
iMessage thing and having blue bubbles
[TS]
02:22:55
◼
►
in the status that confers to it and the
[TS]
02:22:57
◼
►
fact people use it all the time and like
[TS]
02:22:58
◼
►
all that stuff like there's just really
[TS]
02:23:01
◼
►
no reason to why would you want to
[TS]
02:23:04
◼
►
switch and whereas there are reasons to
[TS]
02:23:07
◼
►
go in the other direction and this has
[TS]
02:23:08
◼
►
always been the problem of being an om
[TS]
02:23:10
◼
►
whether it be a Windows OEM that we
[TS]
02:23:12
◼
►
talked about before like HP and think
[TS]
02:23:13
◼
►
pattern you know what's the difference
[TS]
02:23:15
◼
►
same thing with Android like at the end
[TS]
02:23:17
◼
►
the day what's really the difference yes
[TS]
02:23:18
◼
►
Samsung is doing some innovative stuff
[TS]
02:23:20
◼
►
with hardware but that's not a
[TS]
02:23:22
◼
►
sustainable that's not a sustainable
[TS]
02:23:23
◼
►
advantage and uh whereas Apple's has
[TS]
02:23:27
◼
►
always had the software part and that's
[TS]
02:23:28
◼
►
so critical I think that's a you know we
[TS]
02:23:32
◼
►
worth underlining again just how
[TS]
02:23:35
◼
►
interesting that observation is and I'm
[TS]
02:23:36
◼
►
convinced that it's true but if you go
[TS]
02:23:39
◼
►
back six seven the last five six seven
[TS]
02:23:42
◼
►
years I think that the and and going to
[TS]
02:23:46
◼
►
the error you were talking about where
[TS]
02:23:48
◼
►
the the the narrative was that Samsung
[TS]
02:23:51
◼
►
is coming to eat apples lunch because of
[TS]
02:23:53
◼
►
some combination of you can't stay
[TS]
02:23:57
◼
►
differentiated forever and the majority
[TS]
02:24:00
◼
►
oh we saw what happened the last time
[TS]
02:24:02
◼
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with Windows and Mac the majority OS
[TS]
02:24:04
◼
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eventually eats the other one and
[TS]
02:24:08
◼
►
I think part of that narrative at the
[TS]
02:24:09
◼
►
time too though was that the go-go years
[TS]
02:24:12
◼
►
were all about expanding to new
[TS]
02:24:15
◼
►
countries and in the rural countries
[TS]
02:24:17
◼
►
expanding the new carriers like being
[TS]
02:24:20
◼
►
exclusive on AT&T for four years and now
[TS]
02:24:23
◼
►
all of a sudden you've got Verizon and
[TS]
02:24:25
◼
►
in a year later you had Sprint and
[TS]
02:24:26
◼
►
t-mobile and you know and obviously that
[TS]
02:24:29
◼
►
was the Go Go the true gogo years of the
[TS]
02:24:31
◼
►
iPhone were based on that and but the
[TS]
02:24:33
◼
►
narrative was well that's over now and
[TS]
02:24:35
◼
►
it's a the markets are getting saturated
[TS]
02:24:37
◼
►
and that dooms the iPhone I think that
[TS]
02:24:40
◼
►
you have a really compelling case that
[TS]
02:24:41
◼
►
the saturated markets are actually good
[TS]
02:24:43
◼
►
for the iPhone right then they'll the
[TS]
02:24:46
◼
►
only real danger that the iPhone faces
[TS]
02:24:48
◼
►
in most of the world is people holding
[TS]
02:24:50
◼
►
on to their iPhones longer like no one
[TS]
02:24:52
◼
►
like no one again outside China is
[TS]
02:24:54
◼
►
really switching away it's just the the
[TS]
02:24:57
◼
►
phones are so good now that you can use
[TS]
02:24:59
◼
►
a phone for four four to three years
[TS]
02:25:01
◼
►
whereas maybe before like the difference
[TS]
02:25:04
◼
►
in year to year the difference every two
[TS]
02:25:05
◼
►
years was so huge I mean I'm never going
[TS]
02:25:07
◼
►
from like I actually you know sighs you
[TS]
02:25:09
◼
►
know I was reported back when I was poor
[TS]
02:25:12
◼
►
and a student I only got a phone every
[TS]
02:25:15
◼
►
two years so I got the 3G and then I got
[TS]
02:25:17
◼
►
the UM not the 3GS because when I came
[TS]
02:25:20
◼
►
back over from the states
[TS]
02:25:21
◼
►
and then and ipod touch before then and
[TS]
02:25:25
◼
►
then I got the skip to for and I got the
[TS]
02:25:28
◼
►
4s I've been going from the 3GS to the
[TS]
02:25:30
◼
►
4s it was such an unbelievable leap in
[TS]
02:25:33
◼
►
every single aspect of the phone the
[TS]
02:25:35
◼
►
form factor was so superior you had the
[TS]
02:25:38
◼
►
Retina screen it was a million times
[TS]
02:25:40
◼
►
faster like just it was amazing whereas
[TS]
02:25:43
◼
►
going from a six to a seven it's
[TS]
02:25:46
◼
►
definitely faster you feel that uh in
[TS]
02:25:48
◼
►
going back in the button feels weird
[TS]
02:25:51
◼
►
it's like that but at the end of the day
[TS]
02:25:53
◼
►
could i it just the the delta from the
[TS]
02:25:57
◼
►
way it's experienced is much smaller
[TS]
02:25:58
◼
►
than is and this is the case for
[TS]
02:25:59
◼
►
technology it's always the case that you
[TS]
02:26:01
◼
►
get kind of decreasing returns but I'm
[TS]
02:26:04
◼
►
not going to switch away yeah the three
[TS]
02:26:07
◼
►
I think that the the 4s was right around
[TS]
02:26:09
◼
►
the time to where I phone was arguably a
[TS]
02:26:14
◼
►
reasonable point and shoot camera in and
[TS]
02:26:16
◼
►
of itself whereas the 3GS of is still a
[TS]
02:26:18
◼
►
cell phone camera
[TS]
02:26:20
◼
►
yep leggo it's it's been so long now and
[TS]
02:26:22
◼
►
people take so many pictures on their
[TS]
02:26:24
◼
►
phones that it's hard to imagine that
[TS]
02:26:26
◼
►
like in the early years of the iPhone
[TS]
02:26:27
◼
►
cellphone cameras were took like a
[TS]
02:26:30
◼
►
second a totally it was almost like a
[TS]
02:26:32
◼
►
different medium than I've done a camera
[TS]
02:26:34
◼
►
photo you know it was no Instagram
[TS]
02:26:36
◼
►
that's not part of all Instagram but off
[TS]
02:26:37
◼
►
the ground because your 3G I think it
[TS]
02:26:39
◼
►
came out with a 3GS in or right around
[TS]
02:26:41
◼
►
that and your phones were so bad that
[TS]
02:26:43
◼
►
the filters were just a cool effect they
[TS]
02:26:45
◼
►
actually made a mic passable right they
[TS]
02:26:47
◼
►
disguised the the lack of optical
[TS]
02:26:50
◼
►
quality in the originals you know right
[TS]
02:26:52
◼
►
right it was true it was also true too
[TS]
02:26:58
◼
►
like in the early years of Instagram
[TS]
02:27:00
◼
►
like when people were shooting on 3GS or
[TS]
02:27:02
◼
►
iPhone 4 or something where people would
[TS]
02:27:04
◼
►
say like hashtag no filter because it
[TS]
02:27:06
◼
►
was hard to believe if you got a good
[TS]
02:27:08
◼
►
photo effect like like seriously I did
[TS]
02:27:11
◼
►
not use a photo people be like oh you
[TS]
02:27:13
◼
►
know a filter doesn't feel like yes you
[TS]
02:27:14
◼
►
did this looks too good no I swear to
[TS]
02:27:16
◼
►
God the light was nice
[TS]
02:27:18
◼
►
so anyway bottom line something is
[TS]
02:27:20
◼
►
different for the iPhone in China and it
[TS]
02:27:22
◼
►
is not good for Apple and especially if
[TS]
02:27:26
◼
►
I'm I accepted I accept that the what's
[TS]
02:27:29
◼
►
that what's it called the rate that
[TS]
02:27:31
◼
►
people rebuy the same product iPhone all
[TS]
02:27:36
◼
►
I a new iPhone what's it called
[TS]
02:27:38
◼
►
retention yeah the retention rate
[TS]
02:27:40
◼
►
retention rate is significantly lower
[TS]
02:27:43
◼
►
and again it's not catastrophic it's you
[TS]
02:27:45
◼
►
know 50 to 55 percent most most it's
[TS]
02:27:48
◼
►
still the best of any OEM in China most
[TS]
02:27:50
◼
►
I glanced pretty significant margin most
[TS]
02:27:52
◼
►
OEMs would kill for that rate but that's
[TS]
02:27:54
◼
►
that's not good for Apple so something
[TS]
02:27:57
◼
►
is different and you and I are in
[TS]
02:27:59
◼
►
complete agreement that we chat is
[TS]
02:28:01
◼
►
obviously the biggest part of that I I
[TS]
02:28:04
◼
►
think that you can't prove it but it
[TS]
02:28:07
◼
►
just seems it I can't imagine what else
[TS]
02:28:11
◼
►
would be yeah and what I think it's hard
[TS]
02:28:13
◼
►
to really understand is merely because
[TS]
02:28:16
◼
►
the analogy would be like a Facebook
[TS]
02:28:17
◼
►
will face you know Facebook spin
[TS]
02:28:19
◼
►
people's and tons of time on that biloba
[TS]
02:28:20
◼
►
but the extent to which you know
[TS]
02:28:22
◼
►
Facebook and apps like that are dominant
[TS]
02:28:25
◼
►
in kind of leisure time and downtime and
[TS]
02:28:29
◼
►
WeChat is dominant in all times and it's
[TS]
02:28:32
◼
►
not just and the other big thing it's
[TS]
02:28:34
◼
►
not just on device times so yes they're
[TS]
02:28:36
◼
►
dominant in your social interactions or
[TS]
02:28:39
◼
►
dominant in news they're dominant in you
[TS]
02:28:41
◼
►
know watching all sorts of things you've
[TS]
02:28:43
◼
►
the MBA is on $0.10 um you like so
[TS]
02:28:46
◼
►
they're they're dominant as far as on
[TS]
02:28:48
◼
►
device things but the degree to which
[TS]
02:28:50
◼
►
you use your phone for the real world is
[TS]
02:28:52
◼
►
far more extensive in China than it is
[TS]
02:28:54
◼
►
in the US I mean the China is way ahead
[TS]
02:28:56
◼
►
in this sort of they called oto online
[TS]
02:28:58
◼
►
to offline this whole arena is much
[TS]
02:29:00
◼
►
bigger much more well developed in China
[TS]
02:29:02
◼
►
so you're using your phone constantly
[TS]
02:29:04
◼
►
throughout the day to interact with us
[TS]
02:29:06
◼
►
in it's all via WeChat so you're really
[TS]
02:29:08
◼
►
living this app I mean I mean government
[TS]
02:29:11
◼
►
interactions are through through this
[TS]
02:29:12
◼
►
like not not just getting cars paying
[TS]
02:29:13
◼
►
for food paying for goods uh you know
[TS]
02:29:16
◼
►
you see there's QR codes everywhere like
[TS]
02:29:18
◼
►
the whole thing runs on QR codes and and
[TS]
02:29:19
◼
►
you know what's the promised QR codes is
[TS]
02:29:21
◼
►
you don't know where the what actually
[TS]
02:29:23
◼
►
use to snap the QR code well there's no
[TS]
02:29:25
◼
►
question about which app to use there
[TS]
02:29:27
◼
►
and so the pervasiveness of WeChat in
[TS]
02:29:30
◼
►
just your interaction is is there's no
[TS]
02:29:33
◼
►
app there's really is nothing in the
[TS]
02:29:36
◼
►
outside of China that is comparable and
[TS]
02:29:37
◼
►
and and that's why that's good for Apple
[TS]
02:29:41
◼
►
because it's not it's Facebook it really
[TS]
02:29:43
◼
►
isn't the same right like you said that
[TS]
02:29:45
◼
►
like it's like you go out to lunch with
[TS]
02:29:48
◼
►
your colleagues and you know go to like
[TS]
02:29:50
◼
►
a counter service place and get
[TS]
02:29:51
◼
►
something and you know like if you're
[TS]
02:29:53
◼
►
paying with cash you look instead of
[TS]
02:29:54
◼
►
taking out your phone to pay with WeChat
[TS]
02:29:56
◼
►
you look like you're you know like like
[TS]
02:29:58
◼
►
trying to be a hipster or something
[TS]
02:30:00
◼
►
right yeah I don't want to overstate it
[TS]
02:30:02
◼
►
because it's still I mean that's that's
[TS]
02:30:03
◼
►
more the case in specific areas like
[TS]
02:30:05
◼
►
Beijing and Shanghai and some of the and
[TS]
02:30:08
◼
►
whereas you know there's lots of parts
[TS]
02:30:09
◼
►
trying to reach still use cash a lot in
[TS]
02:30:10
◼
►
in the big cities as well but the trend
[TS]
02:30:13
◼
►
is like super strong and it's not in it
[TS]
02:30:15
◼
►
it's in surprising places right you can
[TS]
02:30:17
◼
►
go to like markets in like the little
[TS]
02:30:19
◼
►
lady we have we have a phone I mean like
[TS]
02:30:20
◼
►
there's no x-square sort of thing just
[TS]
02:30:22
◼
►
it's all via it's all via $0.10 and this
[TS]
02:30:24
◼
►
gets into a point I made earlier like
[TS]
02:30:26
◼
►
the user experience is not just about
[TS]
02:30:28
◼
►
the user interface like the user
[TS]
02:30:29
◼
►
interface like Apple pays is superior
[TS]
02:30:31
◼
►
like to make an outfit purchase is so
[TS]
02:30:33
◼
►
elegant right you just hold it up and
[TS]
02:30:34
◼
►
put your thumb on it's amazing but if
[TS]
02:30:37
◼
►
when you consider the totality of it
[TS]
02:30:40
◼
►
where you have to figure out oh do you
[TS]
02:30:42
◼
►
accept Apple
[TS]
02:30:43
◼
►
you have to like be awkward and ask and
[TS]
02:30:44
◼
►
look around and they have to bring it up
[TS]
02:30:46
◼
►
with the user whereas the yeah may be
[TS]
02:30:49
◼
►
more clumsy have to open an app and get
[TS]
02:30:51
◼
►
a get a QR code to show but if that's
[TS]
02:30:54
◼
►
the expectation and everyone does it and
[TS]
02:30:57
◼
►
everyone is equipped for it then yeah
[TS]
02:30:59
◼
►
that specific aspect of the UI is
[TS]
02:31:02
◼
►
inferior but the totality of the user
[TS]
02:31:04
◼
►
experience is far far superior than then
[TS]
02:31:07
◼
►
another solution I was at the liquor
[TS]
02:31:11
◼
►
store today and I paid with Apple pay
[TS]
02:31:14
◼
►
they're usually because they have a chip
[TS]
02:31:15
◼
►
reader and it's it's so much it's worse
[TS]
02:31:18
◼
►
than it used to be with a credit card so
[TS]
02:31:19
◼
►
they made out of cards worse and slower
[TS]
02:31:21
◼
►
and Apple pay is fast and it you know
[TS]
02:31:24
◼
►
it's my neighborhood liquor store and I
[TS]
02:31:26
◼
►
know that Apple pay works there and the
[TS]
02:31:28
◼
►
guy was like a crotchety old guy I won't
[TS]
02:31:30
◼
►
go into there long rant about
[TS]
02:31:31
◼
►
Pennsylvania liquor stores being
[TS]
02:31:32
◼
►
government owned and operated but he was
[TS]
02:31:35
◼
►
a total government employee and he said
[TS]
02:31:38
◼
►
how do you know I gonna pay cash or
[TS]
02:31:39
◼
►
credit and I said I'll pay Apple pay and
[TS]
02:31:41
◼
►
he goes oh he can't do that
[TS]
02:31:43
◼
►
and admit like the terminal was broken
[TS]
02:31:46
◼
►
and I looked at instance and saying he
[TS]
02:31:47
◼
►
goes we don't accept that and I said yes
[TS]
02:31:49
◼
►
you do actually you do I was like I pay
[TS]
02:31:51
◼
►
with it here in this store all the time
[TS]
02:31:52
◼
►
and he goes no you don't it goes the
[TS]
02:31:55
◼
►
state the state won't the state won't
[TS]
02:31:57
◼
►
and I was like I'm telling you I was
[TS]
02:31:58
◼
►
just in here yesterday and and bought
[TS]
02:32:01
◼
►
something and uh it and I just thought
[TS]
02:32:07
◼
►
you know what I'm not gonna I am NOT why
[TS]
02:32:09
◼
►
am i arguing this as I got pay credit
[TS]
02:32:12
◼
►
that's funny
[TS]
02:32:13
◼
►
they should want to pay credit and hold
[TS]
02:32:15
◼
►
up your phone in and stealthily pay
[TS]
02:32:17
◼
►
anyway cuz I know that that will
[TS]
02:32:18
◼
►
actually happen yeah but oh the other
[TS]
02:32:21
◼
►
thing the other the other point to make
[TS]
02:32:23
◼
►
about this oh sorry the analogy we
[TS]
02:32:25
◼
►
talked a little bit about Microsoft so
[TS]
02:32:27
◼
►
enjoy that I just told a story that
[TS]
02:32:29
◼
►
makes it sound as though I run out of
[TS]
02:32:31
◼
►
liquor day I don't well I I doubted that
[TS]
02:32:33
◼
►
but I just gotta let it stand but I
[TS]
02:32:35
◼
►
totally do so he said I was there
[TS]
02:32:36
◼
►
yesterday it actually it's true that I
[TS]
02:32:38
◼
►
was there day before but it wasn't so
[TS]
02:32:40
◼
►
much that I drank myself out of liquor
[TS]
02:32:42
◼
►
in a day but that I'm a very poor
[TS]
02:32:44
◼
►
planner in terms of knowing what else I
[TS]
02:32:47
◼
►
might be running low on but anyway yeah
[TS]
02:32:50
◼
►
uh-oh the point to make about this uh
[TS]
02:32:53
◼
►
about how we chat does so many things
[TS]
02:32:55
◼
►
whereas
[TS]
02:32:56
◼
►
Facebook only does some things is what
[TS]
02:33:00
◼
►
happened back in the day when Microsoft
[TS]
02:33:02
◼
►
was dominant like we used lots of apps
[TS]
02:33:05
◼
►
and those apps were actually what we use
[TS]
02:33:07
◼
►
the computer for but the reason why
[TS]
02:33:09
◼
►
Microsoft got all the value and was the
[TS]
02:33:11
◼
►
most valuable them all is they were sort
[TS]
02:33:13
◼
►
of the common the commonality right they
[TS]
02:33:16
◼
►
all ran on Windows and so it was sort of
[TS]
02:33:18
◼
►
by having lots of disparate apps that
[TS]
02:33:20
◼
►
Windows itself got all the value and the
[TS]
02:33:23
◼
►
same thing with with the iPhone there's
[TS]
02:33:25
◼
►
yeah there's we actually use apps we
[TS]
02:33:27
◼
►
don't use the iPhone we spend more time
[TS]
02:33:29
◼
►
inside Facebook inside whatever it might
[TS]
02:33:31
◼
►
but they're all running on the iPhone
[TS]
02:33:34
◼
►
and we use enough different ones that
[TS]
02:33:36
◼
►
where's the winch pin where is the sort
[TS]
02:33:38
◼
►
of you know the the squeeze is is at the
[TS]
02:33:40
◼
►
OS level all right
[TS]
02:33:42
◼
►
what made what what ended Microsoft's
[TS]
02:33:45
◼
►
dominance it was was and why Google
[TS]
02:33:48
◼
►
became dominant because is because the
[TS]
02:33:51
◼
►
web there was so many websites and what
[TS]
02:33:54
◼
►
became the common what became the winch
[TS]
02:33:56
◼
►
point it was Google it was the search
[TS]
02:33:57
◼
►
box right and when everything would you
[TS]
02:34:02
◼
►
guys sort of a one-to-one relationship
[TS]
02:34:03
◼
►
where all between Google using Google
[TS]
02:34:06
◼
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and the computer ran on the value in
[TS]
02:34:09
◼
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sort of the value chain kind of went up
[TS]
02:34:11
◼
►
to stack it where to the new platform
[TS]
02:34:13
◼
►
where all the sites sort of sat on top
[TS]
02:34:15
◼
►
of it right so it went up as long it in
[TS]
02:34:18
◼
►
the analogy the phone is as long as
[TS]
02:34:20
◼
►
you're using multiple apps and multiple
[TS]
02:34:22
◼
►
apps are important to your day then the
[TS]
02:34:24
◼
►
actual value the point of leverage is
[TS]
02:34:26
◼
►
the OS but once everything consolidates
[TS]
02:34:30
◼
►
into one app then that point of leverage
[TS]
02:34:32
◼
►
skips up a level and that that is the
[TS]
02:34:35
◼
►
case in China and it's not the case in
[TS]
02:34:37
◼
►
in other places if that makes sense you
[TS]
02:34:39
◼
►
have to have an app that does everything
[TS]
02:34:40
◼
►
if it only did some things it's not
[TS]
02:34:43
◼
►
going to it's not going to steal
[TS]
02:34:44
◼
►
leverage in a similar way in it in the
[TS]
02:34:49
◼
►
Apple's decades old you know almost
[TS]
02:34:51
◼
►
foundational you know literally I mean
[TS]
02:34:55
◼
►
like it software wasn't quite as
[TS]
02:34:57
◼
►
important in the Apple 2 days or Apple 1
[TS]
02:35:00
◼
►
days even as it is today but you know it
[TS]
02:35:04
◼
►
was the marriage of hardware and
[TS]
02:35:06
◼
►
software that made Apple products
[TS]
02:35:08
◼
►
what you know different right from the
[TS]
02:35:11
◼
►
get-go I mean and again like I mentioned
[TS]
02:35:12
◼
►
in my thing writing about your thing
[TS]
02:35:14
◼
►
that was it's Steve Wozniak's is
[TS]
02:35:17
◼
►
venerated and mostly thought of as an
[TS]
02:35:19
◼
►
engineer hardware engineer because
[TS]
02:35:21
◼
►
that's what he was an electrical
[TS]
02:35:22
◼
►
engineer but he was the software genius
[TS]
02:35:24
◼
►
too I mean he he never written a
[TS]
02:35:26
◼
►
compiler in his life and he he made the
[TS]
02:35:28
◼
►
Apple basic he put the Apple Beit he
[TS]
02:35:31
◼
►
completely created Apple basic from
[TS]
02:35:33
◼
►
scratch yeah it's incredible put it in a
[TS]
02:35:35
◼
►
rock like he didn't eat like borrowed
[TS]
02:35:39
◼
►
somebody's like his neighbor's
[TS]
02:35:41
◼
►
neighborhood HP in a cubicle borrowed
[TS]
02:35:44
◼
►
like a compiler book couldn't taught
[TS]
02:35:47
◼
►
himself to write a compiler in ROM I
[TS]
02:35:49
◼
►
mean he was this software genius it was
[TS]
02:35:52
◼
►
a great basic it was a great version of
[TS]
02:35:54
◼
►
basic and it was right there as soon as
[TS]
02:35:56
◼
►
you turn the machine on in that formula
[TS]
02:36:00
◼
►
of hardware differentiated by
[TS]
02:36:03
◼
►
proprietary software if the software
[TS]
02:36:05
◼
►
side is way more important to Apple in
[TS]
02:36:07
◼
►
long term than the hardware side right
[TS]
02:36:10
◼
►
there's just is how they monetize it
[TS]
02:36:11
◼
►
it's it's a it's a money vehicle all
[TS]
02:36:14
◼
►
right and that's people focus on it
[TS]
02:36:16
◼
►
because it's that's the actual thing you
[TS]
02:36:17
◼
►
buy and certainly Finance people for
[TS]
02:36:19
◼
►
tech people concentrate on it because
[TS]
02:36:22
◼
►
it's easier to do a review of new
[TS]
02:36:24
◼
►
hardware than it is slowly that it is to
[TS]
02:36:28
◼
►
review slowly evolve involves evolving
[TS]
02:36:34
◼
►
software over time but the software is
[TS]
02:36:37
◼
►
way more important than the hardware I
[TS]
02:36:39
◼
►
mean you can have something like the Mac
[TS]
02:36:40
◼
►
Pro that doesn't get updated for four
[TS]
02:36:42
◼
►
years and it's not going to kill the Mac
[TS]
02:36:44
◼
►
but if the software you know was this
[TS]
02:36:47
◼
►
stagnant as the Mac Pro Hardware would
[TS]
02:36:49
◼
►
be a disaster well that and then it
[TS]
02:36:51
◼
►
almost did kill Apple right right that
[TS]
02:36:53
◼
►
is back back in the 90s and yeah this is
[TS]
02:36:55
◼
►
the this was going back to why all those
[TS]
02:36:58
◼
►
people were so wrong about the iPhone
[TS]
02:37:00
◼
►
this is exactly why right they didn't
[TS]
02:37:02
◼
►
properly value software and they didn't
[TS]
02:37:05
◼
►
properly value software because that's
[TS]
02:37:06
◼
►
not Apple didn't charge for it but that
[TS]
02:37:08
◼
►
was - that's what people always fail do
[TS]
02:37:11
◼
►
not understand about Apple is that the
[TS]
02:37:13
◼
►
entire reason why they can charge for
[TS]
02:37:16
◼
►
much for the hardware is because it's
[TS]
02:37:18
◼
►
not for is different I mean there's
[TS]
02:37:18
◼
►
you'd always read reviews right there'd
[TS]
02:37:20
◼
►
be like a review way back in the IP
[TS]
02:37:22
◼
►
magazine like the new Mac Pro it would
[TS]
02:37:24
◼
►
compare it to or Mac or whatever they're
[TS]
02:37:26
◼
►
called back then they would compare it
[TS]
02:37:27
◼
►
to the PC Baba power and it was such
[TS]
02:37:29
◼
►
yeah it was it was it was dumb it was a
[TS]
02:37:32
◼
►
farce right because the reality is if
[TS]
02:37:35
◼
►
you're in the market for a Mac there is
[TS]
02:37:38
◼
►
no competition like that in how do you
[TS]
02:37:41
◼
►
make a lot of money make other way by
[TS]
02:37:42
◼
►
having monopolies like Apple has a
[TS]
02:37:44
◼
►
monopoly they have a monopoly on their
[TS]
02:37:46
◼
►
software the only way to get their
[TS]
02:37:47
◼
►
software is by buying their hardware
[TS]
02:37:49
◼
►
which lets them charge way more for
[TS]
02:37:52
◼
►
their hardware than anyone else can
[TS]
02:37:53
◼
►
charge for there's it I mean in its
[TS]
02:37:55
◼
►
that's why they're the most valuable
[TS]
02:37:57
◼
►
company in the world yep
[TS]
02:37:59
◼
►
and you know again like a perfect point
[TS]
02:38:01
◼
►
the only time Apple was ever actually in
[TS]
02:38:02
◼
►
real trouble and circa you know 1996 or
[TS]
02:38:07
◼
►
so was when their software stack had
[TS]
02:38:11
◼
►
been exposed as being antiquated you
[TS]
02:38:14
◼
►
know and add serious technical problems
[TS]
02:38:17
◼
►
and they were really you know it you
[TS]
02:38:19
◼
►
could make a really compelling case that
[TS]
02:38:21
◼
►
for you know in some cases for some
[TS]
02:38:23
◼
►
people not for everybody but for some
[TS]
02:38:25
◼
►
people it was you know decidedly a worst
[TS]
02:38:28
◼
►
platform than than the competition
[TS]
02:38:29
◼
►
that's all I mean any apples where it
[TS]
02:38:32
◼
►
had been slower than PCs for multiple
[TS]
02:38:35
◼
►
years at that point but when when you
[TS]
02:38:37
◼
►
were getting a situation where like just
[TS]
02:38:39
◼
►
the I mean no protected memory and and
[TS]
02:38:41
◼
►
it was like honestly if you actually
[TS]
02:38:45
◼
►
cared about the work you were doing at
[TS]
02:38:47
◼
►
any given time on your computer you were
[TS]
02:38:49
◼
►
kind of nuts to not use a it's not used
[TS]
02:38:52
◼
►
what was Windows got protected memory
[TS]
02:38:54
◼
►
like to not use Windows you know I might
[TS]
02:38:56
◼
►
have socks but really what I love you
[TS]
02:38:57
◼
►
computer specially all the time a mine
[TS]
02:38:59
◼
►
was not crashing all the time but you
[TS]
02:39:01
◼
►
but the reason of mine wasn't crashing
[TS]
02:39:03
◼
►
all the time was that I was sufficiently
[TS]
02:39:05
◼
►
you were careful about it right
[TS]
02:39:06
◼
►
sufficiently expert at using a Macintosh
[TS]
02:39:08
◼
►
that I knew not to install I knew what
[TS]
02:39:10
◼
►
type of stuff not to install I knew
[TS]
02:39:11
◼
►
exactly and if and if I did crash and I
[TS]
02:39:14
◼
►
got you know I had Mac's bug installed I
[TS]
02:39:16
◼
►
could I wasn't like an expert at Mac's
[TS]
02:39:18
◼
►
bug but I could at least see what it was
[TS]
02:39:21
◼
►
that crash you know I could figure out
[TS]
02:39:22
◼
►
what it was that was causing the problem
[TS]
02:39:24
◼
►
right right that's a problem the fact
[TS]
02:39:26
◼
►
that you had to be an expert Mac and Mac
[TS]
02:39:28
◼
►
user to have that ability that was a
[TS]
02:39:31
◼
►
problem because it weren't supposed to
[TS]
02:39:32
◼
►
it's fine
[TS]
02:39:35
◼
►
where the Mac is today is is a terrific
[TS]
02:39:37
◼
►
position in that regard where if you
[TS]
02:39:40
◼
►
want to be an expert and are an expert
[TS]
02:39:42
◼
►
you can do amazing things that other
[TS]
02:39:43
◼
►
people can't but that the casual user is
[TS]
02:39:46
◼
►
not a necessity though right right it
[TS]
02:39:49
◼
►
does it's absolutely not a necessity
[TS]
02:39:51
◼
►
just to use the web and check your email
[TS]
02:39:53
◼
►
and find out what's going on on Facebook
[TS]
02:39:56
◼
►
right what what really shows how dumb
[TS]
02:39:59
◼
►
the argument about hardware is is that
[TS]
02:40:01
◼
►
the Mac became more valuable as a
[TS]
02:40:04
◼
►
product wine once its Hardware became
[TS]
02:40:06
◼
►
the same as everybody else
[TS]
02:40:07
◼
►
yeah right exactly it it like what's
[TS]
02:40:10
◼
►
they started using ever all standard
[TS]
02:40:12
◼
►
it was a more vile product they sold
[TS]
02:40:15
◼
►
more and it's yet people couldn't get
[TS]
02:40:17
◼
►
went back to the iPhone and said all
[TS]
02:40:20
◼
►
because the hardware well it's yeah it's
[TS]
02:40:22
◼
►
it's so funny how people just don't even
[TS]
02:40:26
◼
►
today I mean I think it's mostly the war
[TS]
02:40:29
◼
►
has been won but even today there's
[TS]
02:40:31
◼
►
something like that people don't get the
[TS]
02:40:33
◼
►
the software is not sold for a dollar
[TS]
02:40:37
◼
►
and it's the most viable thing they made
[TS]
02:40:39
◼
►
there was a plan in the 90s before the
[TS]
02:40:41
◼
►
next they settled on then you know
[TS]
02:40:43
◼
►
acquiring next and and using next step
[TS]
02:40:46
◼
►
as their operating system of the future
[TS]
02:40:48
◼
►
but at the point where they were
[TS]
02:40:49
◼
►
evaluating their options and they were
[TS]
02:40:51
◼
►
think about buying the BOS that one of
[TS]
02:40:56
◼
►
the options I think it was Alan Hancock
[TS]
02:40:58
◼
►
who is then the chief technical officer
[TS]
02:41:00
◼
►
which is a position that I don't think
[TS]
02:41:02
◼
►
anybody even held after her at Apple but
[TS]
02:41:04
◼
►
I think it was her who endorsed it and
[TS]
02:41:07
◼
►
if not I apologize to ellen hancock but
[TS]
02:41:09
◼
►
somebody at Apple seriously investigated
[TS]
02:41:11
◼
►
like using Windows NT as the foundation
[TS]
02:41:16
◼
►
and just building like like a TouchWiz
[TS]
02:41:19
◼
►
like a Macintosh TouchWiz interface on
[TS]
02:41:21
◼
►
top of NT you know like what TouchWiz is
[TS]
02:41:24
◼
►
to Android that Apple you just paint a
[TS]
02:41:27
◼
►
little you know a little apple like
[TS]
02:41:29
◼
►
magic on top of it but you can you know
[TS]
02:41:31
◼
►
outsource the actual operating system to
[TS]
02:41:33
◼
►
Windows NT that would have it would have
[TS]
02:41:35
◼
►
completely sunk the company company
[TS]
02:41:36
◼
►
would have been gone and yeah it had it
[TS]
02:41:39
◼
►
exactly upside down right with the way
[TS]
02:41:41
◼
►
right but they can do West doing the
[TS]
02:41:43
◼
►
exact same thing on the hardware side by
[TS]
02:41:44
◼
►
switching the internals to bog-standard
[TS]
02:41:46
◼
►
Intel you know pcs I could
[TS]
02:41:49
◼
►
dual boot into Windows if you wanted
[TS]
02:41:51
◼
►
them to or still can today you know
[TS]
02:41:54
◼
►
what's the best thing that ever happened
[TS]
02:41:55
◼
►
to Mac hardware right and so the reason
[TS]
02:41:58
◼
►
this matters is if you're into why the
[TS]
02:42:00
◼
►
iPhone 7 will sell well is if you need a
[TS]
02:42:02
◼
►
new phone you're gonna buy your honor
[TS]
02:42:04
◼
►
you're gonna buy an iPhone 7 right it's
[TS]
02:42:05
◼
►
faster and it's better and yes in the
[TS]
02:42:07
◼
►
camera is better and yeah it may it may
[TS]
02:42:08
◼
►
be it looks the same as iPhone 6 but
[TS]
02:42:10
◼
►
like your when that's your only choice
[TS]
02:42:12
◼
►
it's not really that big of a deal right
[TS]
02:42:15
◼
►
and and the problem in the problem in it
[TS]
02:42:18
◼
►
whereas Android like it's like the what
[TS]
02:42:21
◼
►
lock in there's not really any lock in
[TS]
02:42:22
◼
►
all sales has been trying to create some
[TS]
02:42:24
◼
►
sort of walk-in for years and they fail
[TS]
02:42:26
◼
►
because they're that's not what they're
[TS]
02:42:27
◼
►
good at
[TS]
02:42:28
◼
►
so here's where we disagree where we
[TS]
02:42:29
◼
►
disagree we agree that it's a big
[TS]
02:42:31
◼
►
problem for Apple if we that we Chad's
[TS]
02:42:33
◼
►
dominance is more important more central
[TS]
02:42:36
◼
►
than iOS to the experience would then
[TS]
02:42:39
◼
►
lend you believe that more iPhone users
[TS]
02:42:41
◼
►
would be willing to switch to Android
[TS]
02:42:42
◼
►
and we're seeing proof of that that it's
[TS]
02:42:44
◼
►
happening right where we subtly disagree
[TS]
02:42:47
◼
►
is that you also think it's a factor in
[TS]
02:42:49
◼
►
these declining sales is the fact that
[TS]
02:42:51
◼
►
the iPhone 7 looks so much like a 6 and
[TS]
02:42:53
◼
►
success yeah and the Hazen's because
[TS]
02:42:57
◼
►
yeah great this is the point that's the
[TS]
02:42:59
◼
►
exact point where my sort of definitely
[TS]
02:43:03
◼
►
contrary into most people because I
[TS]
02:43:05
◼
►
think that most people who oh pine
[TS]
02:43:07
◼
►
professionally about the design of
[TS]
02:43:09
◼
►
phones took that you know emphasize the
[TS]
02:43:13
◼
►
wow it's the same form factor as the
[TS]
02:43:15
◼
►
last two years and that's not you know
[TS]
02:43:18
◼
►
that that's an inherently negative thing
[TS]
02:43:20
◼
►
I I agree in the basics though you know
[TS]
02:43:25
◼
►
I'm not I'm not like I'm not arguing the
[TS]
02:43:27
◼
►
extreme point that the iPhone is now in
[TS]
02:43:29
◼
►
a perfect shape and should never change
[TS]
02:43:32
◼
►
in any dimension or something like that
[TS]
02:43:34
◼
►
I just think it's less of a factor than
[TS]
02:43:38
◼
►
you do and in fact almost irrelevant in
[TS]
02:43:40
◼
►
the China case well see I so I agree
[TS]
02:43:43
◼
►
with you in in most to the rest of the
[TS]
02:43:45
◼
►
world because at the end of day you're
[TS]
02:43:47
◼
►
by to buy an iPhone is to buy in an iOS
[TS]
02:43:52
◼
►
delivery device right at the end of day
[TS]
02:43:54
◼
►
the hardware is a vehicle to get the
[TS]
02:43:56
◼
►
software that you want and this is what
[TS]
02:43:59
◼
►
Apple is and always has been the
[TS]
02:44:02
◼
►
but what it would just set aside Apple
[TS]
02:44:04
◼
►
for a while and think about what drives
[TS]
02:44:05
◼
►
high-end Samsung sells what drives you
[TS]
02:44:08
◼
►
know other high-end vendors in China
[TS]
02:44:10
◼
►
Huawei and Oppo like why would you
[TS]
02:44:13
◼
►
choose one or the other we are going to
[TS]
02:44:15
◼
►
choose based on hardware you're going to
[TS]
02:44:18
◼
►
choose and what goes into hardware with
[TS]
02:44:20
◼
►
some aspect of it is features like the
[TS]
02:44:22
◼
►
camera and which is better not some
[TS]
02:44:24
◼
►
aspect of it is the way it looks we're
[TS]
02:44:25
◼
►
talking about a device that's with you
[TS]
02:44:28
◼
►
all the time your most personal device
[TS]
02:44:29
◼
►
it's it's you pull out you put on the
[TS]
02:44:31
◼
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table it's something that says who you
[TS]
02:44:34
◼
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are and part of that is if you something
[TS]
02:44:38
◼
►
that looks the same here's the analogy I
[TS]
02:44:39
◼
►
would take think about buying a Mercedes
[TS]
02:44:43
◼
►
or buying a BMW or Audi or whatever or
[TS]
02:44:46
◼
►
whatever you want are there differences
[TS]
02:44:48
◼
►
in how they drive in their performance
[TS]
02:44:50
◼
►
yes of course there are and some people
[TS]
02:44:52
◼
►
will always only buy a Mercedes there'll
[TS]
02:44:54
◼
►
always only buy a BMW and that's the
[TS]
02:44:57
◼
►
same thing with using say WeChat on a
[TS]
02:44:59
◼
►
phone or using on Android some people
[TS]
02:45:01
◼
►
will only ever buy one of them because
[TS]
02:45:02
◼
►
it's still different it's still there's
[TS]
02:45:04
◼
►
some aspect of the experience that is
[TS]
02:45:05
◼
►
still you know about iOS and those it's
[TS]
02:45:08
◼
►
not to say that that's not a factor in
[TS]
02:45:10
◼
►
China it still is it just it's not as
[TS]
02:45:12
◼
►
big is the number of people that
[TS]
02:45:14
◼
►
actually carry out that are fewer but
[TS]
02:45:17
◼
►
the way some people will choose to buy
[TS]
02:45:18
◼
►
which car to buy is well it's been the
[TS]
02:45:21
◼
►
you know BMP which came with a new 5
[TS]
02:45:23
◼
►
Series but before then the sales were
[TS]
02:45:24
◼
►
really bad the previous year why is it
[TS]
02:45:26
◼
►
been the same design for five years and
[TS]
02:45:28
◼
►
now this year the sales are really good
[TS]
02:45:29
◼
►
why because they just came out with a
[TS]
02:45:31
◼
►
new model and it's the same sort of
[TS]
02:45:33
◼
►
thing if it's this if it's the old model
[TS]
02:45:36
◼
►
maybe you'll buy it because you just
[TS]
02:45:37
◼
►
actually like an iPhone that much but
[TS]
02:45:39
◼
►
maybe you'll buy something else and the
[TS]
02:45:42
◼
►
implication is I'm actually a bit of an
[TS]
02:45:44
◼
►
optimist in the short term because the
[TS]
02:45:45
◼
►
new iPhones going to come out I think
[TS]
02:45:47
◼
►
lots of people want to buy it I my point
[TS]
02:45:51
◼
►
that it's not relevant though is that it
[TS]
02:45:52
◼
►
even if there is a spike let's say let's
[TS]
02:45:57
◼
►
just say that the rumors are true and
[TS]
02:45:58
◼
►
Apple ships in September at least one
[TS]
02:46:02
◼
►
iPhone that's a very distinctly new
[TS]
02:46:04
◼
►
design and you know maybe all three of
[TS]
02:46:06
◼
►
them you know there's somebody came out
[TS]
02:46:08
◼
►
with a report this week that the 7 + 7 s
[TS]
02:46:11
◼
►
or 7 S + + 7s are also going to have
[TS]
02:46:16
◼
►
glass packs it would which I don't want
[TS]
02:46:19
◼
►
to get down this rattle but it's
[TS]
02:46:20
◼
►
nonsense if it's true that the the
[TS]
02:46:22
◼
►
second tier new phones not the super
[TS]
02:46:24
◼
►
phone not the iPhone pro that might be
[TS]
02:46:26
◼
►
you know 1200 or $1400 but like the ones
[TS]
02:46:30
◼
►
that are replacing the seven and seven
[TS]
02:46:32
◼
►
plus if they have class packs they're
[TS]
02:46:34
◼
►
not going to call them the 7s and 7s
[TS]
02:46:36
◼
►
plus because the S thing only applies to
[TS]
02:46:38
◼
►
looks exactly the same as the last years
[TS]
02:46:40
◼
►
but with new new technology if they do
[TS]
02:46:43
◼
►
that they all all three phones would
[TS]
02:46:45
◼
►
have new names but anyway that's a
[TS]
02:46:47
◼
►
different point let's just say Apple
[TS]
02:46:51
◼
►
comes out with exciting new phone and
[TS]
02:46:53
◼
►
Chinese oh and behold Chinese sales
[TS]
02:46:55
◼
►
spiked again and you know there's pretty
[TS]
02:46:58
◼
►
strong correlation that a new design
[TS]
02:47:01
◼
►
equals I've you know apples back in
[TS]
02:47:03
◼
►
China I'll apologize to you admit that
[TS]
02:47:06
◼
►
you were right if it's a noticeable
[TS]
02:47:08
◼
►
spike it gives it it would have once
[TS]
02:47:12
◼
►
have to be a it not just that they'd
[TS]
02:47:14
◼
►
have to be a spike but it would have to
[TS]
02:47:15
◼
►
prove it I think it would have to mean
[TS]
02:47:17
◼
►
that Chinese growth would be even
[TS]
02:47:19
◼
►
greater than the growth everywhere else
[TS]
02:47:20
◼
►
from the sale of this new iPhone right
[TS]
02:47:22
◼
►
that the argument here is that the
[TS]
02:47:24
◼
►
Chinese market is more sensitive both
[TS]
02:47:27
◼
►
ways to the hardware design of a phone
[TS]
02:47:30
◼
►
that when it is new and wow you've got
[TS]
02:47:32
◼
►
the best new iPhone they're even more
[TS]
02:47:34
◼
►
willing to buy it than the rest of the
[TS]
02:47:36
◼
►
world and when they feel like it's stale
[TS]
02:47:37
◼
►
they're more willing to abandon it do
[TS]
02:47:39
◼
►
you feel like that's a fair assessment i
[TS]
02:47:42
◼
►
I do think so I thought you were going
[TS]
02:47:44
◼
►
to say that they'd have to sell even
[TS]
02:47:46
◼
►
more than the iPhone 6 cuz I'm not sure
[TS]
02:47:48
◼
►
I don't know about that that's true
[TS]
02:47:49
◼
►
right yeah cuz there's two parts of one
[TS]
02:47:52
◼
►
yes I I do believe that's the case and I
[TS]
02:47:54
◼
►
do think that iPhone growth in China
[TS]
02:47:56
◼
►
will be greater than in other regions of
[TS]
02:47:58
◼
►
the world when a new when a new design
[TS]
02:48:00
◼
►
comes out I do wonder though something
[TS]
02:48:03
◼
►
that that that I've been thinking a lot
[TS]
02:48:05
◼
►
about and this is this is the real bear
[TS]
02:48:07
◼
►
case for Apple in China is I mean the
[TS]
02:48:11
◼
►
iPhone 6 it wasn't just that it was the
[TS]
02:48:14
◼
►
big phone it was that's also the first
[TS]
02:48:16
◼
►
phone that came out in China Mobile
[TS]
02:48:17
◼
►
which is the the largest carrier in in
[TS]
02:48:19
◼
►
China and at the same time you had the
[TS]
02:48:22
◼
►
continued emergence of of you know a
[TS]
02:48:24
◼
►
middle class that
[TS]
02:48:26
◼
►
that can stretch for a luxury good that
[TS]
02:48:29
◼
►
in the grand scheme of things isn't that
[TS]
02:48:31
◼
►
expensive like I just talked about cars
[TS]
02:48:32
◼
►
right right do I need to buy a phone is
[TS]
02:48:34
◼
►
a fraction of the cost even if you're
[TS]
02:48:36
◼
►
buying the very best phone in the world
[TS]
02:48:37
◼
►
right so my big question though in this
[TS]
02:48:41
◼
►
is the the bear bowl case the best news
[TS]
02:48:45
◼
►
for Apple it would be exactly what I say
[TS]
02:48:47
◼
►
where there's I think regards is gonna
[TS]
02:48:49
◼
►
be a big jump the questions was the
[TS]
02:48:50
◼
►
iPhone 6 a fan you know what I mean
[TS]
02:48:53
◼
►
where new is the thing to get and now
[TS]
02:48:56
◼
►
you know it would like luxury goods go
[TS]
02:48:59
◼
►
through this right right one point it's
[TS]
02:49:01
◼
►
Louie Vuitton then it's Chanel then it's
[TS]
02:49:03
◼
►
like her best and it's Balenciaga or
[TS]
02:49:05
◼
►
whatever might be like is that is it was
[TS]
02:49:08
◼
►
the iPhone 6 affair was just the thing
[TS]
02:49:10
◼
►
to get or I don't think that's the case
[TS]
02:49:14
◼
►
it might be a little bit or is the
[TS]
02:49:16
◼
►
iPhone and Apple a luxury good and an
[TS]
02:49:20
◼
►
aspirational good which I do think it is
[TS]
02:49:22
◼
►
and this matters and matters in China
[TS]
02:49:24
◼
►
matters way more in China than in the US
[TS]
02:49:26
◼
►
and it like the level of conspicuous
[TS]
02:49:29
◼
►
consumption in China is it's kind of
[TS]
02:49:31
◼
►
jarring when you go like you you can be
[TS]
02:49:33
◼
►
in like some run-down part of town or
[TS]
02:49:37
◼
►
messy and dirty and there's stuff flying
[TS]
02:49:40
◼
►
around and there's people walking down
[TS]
02:49:41
◼
►
the road with like Chanel bags like it's
[TS]
02:49:43
◼
►
it's it's very different and matters and
[TS]
02:49:46
◼
►
you pull out your phone you put on the
[TS]
02:49:48
◼
►
table in the coffee shop and yeah even
[TS]
02:49:50
◼
►
if it's in a case you can see what kind
[TS]
02:49:52
◼
►
of phone it is and and it really matters
[TS]
02:49:55
◼
►
and Apple still has a great brand and it
[TS]
02:49:57
◼
►
still means something that it's an Apple
[TS]
02:49:59
◼
►
and I think that's the that's why
[TS]
02:50:01
◼
►
they're still maintaining cells to the
[TS]
02:50:04
◼
►
degree that they are and so I I'm still
[TS]
02:50:07
◼
►
relatively bullish if you want to be
[TS]
02:50:10
◼
►
bearish though would be that oh it was
[TS]
02:50:11
◼
►
just a fad which I don't think is true
[TS]
02:50:13
◼
►
but it's possible but here's my my point
[TS]
02:50:15
◼
►
is that this going back to the software
[TS]
02:50:19
◼
►
being more important than the hardware
[TS]
02:50:21
◼
►
what has you attached to the Apple brand
[TS]
02:50:24
◼
►
has to be the software to it's not just
[TS]
02:50:26
◼
►
that Apple as a company needs to be more
[TS]
02:50:28
◼
►
focused on the software platform but if
[TS]
02:50:30
◼
►
the software software platform isn't
[TS]
02:50:32
◼
►
what's primarily keeping you buying
[TS]
02:50:34
◼
►
iPhones then you're so much less sticky
[TS]
02:50:37
◼
►
like if you really are just learned
[TS]
02:50:40
◼
►
somebody else can I would argue that the
[TS]
02:50:43
◼
►
competition is way closer to iPhone
[TS]
02:50:45
◼
►
quality hardware than they are then
[TS]
02:50:48
◼
►
Android is to being iOS quality software
[TS]
02:50:51
◼
►
like note that that's that's absolutely
[TS]
02:50:54
◼
►
true but in I really do think in China
[TS]
02:50:56
◼
►
and this isn't like a Johnny completely
[TS]
02:50:58
◼
►
observation I've made this point like
[TS]
02:51:00
◼
►
three four years ago that the big
[TS]
02:51:03
◼
►
differentiation for Apple in China has
[TS]
02:51:05
◼
►
always been the brand like that matters
[TS]
02:51:08
◼
►
more and that's something one of Apple's
[TS]
02:51:11
◼
►
actually advantages and something they
[TS]
02:51:12
◼
►
learn with the whole 5c thing is having
[TS]
02:51:15
◼
►
only a high-end brand or a high-end
[TS]
02:51:18
◼
►
phone is a good thing because there is
[TS]
02:51:21
◼
►
no watering down of the brand right yes
[TS]
02:51:23
◼
►
you can have a high-end Samsung there's
[TS]
02:51:24
◼
►
also low end crappy ones floating around
[TS]
02:51:26
◼
►
same thing with with all the other
[TS]
02:51:27
◼
►
Chinese brands the fact that an iPhone
[TS]
02:51:30
◼
►
is always an expensive device is a is
[TS]
02:51:34
◼
►
something that actually helps preserve
[TS]
02:51:37
◼
►
that's always an expensive device or an
[TS]
02:51:39
◼
►
old device right right and so doing what
[TS]
02:51:42
◼
►
it was expensive at some point right
[TS]
02:51:44
◼
►
okay so what about the red iPhone I
[TS]
02:51:46
◼
►
didn't mention that in my article I got
[TS]
02:51:48
◼
►
a whole bunch of well what about the red
[TS]
02:51:49
◼
►
one because the red one is obviously new
[TS]
02:51:51
◼
►
like people can quibble about whether
[TS]
02:51:53
◼
►
the jet-black iPhone looks new but the
[TS]
02:51:55
◼
►
red one is unmistakably new do you think
[TS]
02:51:58
◼
►
the red one the red iPhone 7 will make a
[TS]
02:52:00
◼
►
difference in the second half of this
[TS]
02:52:01
◼
►
financial year it might I think that you
[TS]
02:52:05
◼
►
know what I think Cook was totally right
[TS]
02:52:08
◼
►
to say that there's anticipation for a
[TS]
02:52:10
◼
►
new device which I again I think I think
[TS]
02:52:13
◼
►
that was about China that comment right
[TS]
02:52:15
◼
►
that people are waiting for the new
[TS]
02:52:16
◼
►
device so I it might have an impact but
[TS]
02:52:20
◼
►
I think it will be muted that at this
[TS]
02:52:22
◼
►
point people are waiting and people like
[TS]
02:52:24
◼
►
are super super up-to-date on this stuff
[TS]
02:52:27
◼
►
like the I don't live in China but I
[TS]
02:52:32
◼
►
will just say being here in Taiwan
[TS]
02:52:33
◼
►
like I think rumors are on the nightly
[TS]
02:52:35
◼
►
news oh that's amazing I said well I'm
[TS]
02:52:38
◼
►
I'm laughing because I realized that in
[TS]
02:52:41
◼
►
some circles that's a politically
[TS]
02:52:42
◼
►
charged sentence but I'm also laughing
[TS]
02:52:44
◼
►
at the fact that I'm also laughing at
[TS]
02:52:46
◼
►
the fact that the iPhone rumors are on
[TS]
02:52:48
◼
►
the nightly news
[TS]
02:52:49
◼
►
yeah it's the the pervasiveness end of
[TS]
02:52:53
◼
►
just mobile devices is I mean the u.s.
[TS]
02:52:58
◼
►
is really behind I mean they're behind
[TS]
02:52:59
◼
►
in that everyone because everyone the US
[TS]
02:53:02
◼
►
had a PC the what mobile means in the
[TS]
02:53:06
◼
►
u.s. is all the times between in between
[TS]
02:53:10
◼
►
when you're using your PC right and what
[TS]
02:53:12
◼
►
happened in China is for the vast
[TS]
02:53:16
◼
►
majority of people their first of their
[TS]
02:53:18
◼
►
first computing device is the phone
[TS]
02:53:20
◼
►
right and and so the reason why we chat
[TS]
02:53:24
◼
►
is is what it is it's not just that it
[TS]
02:53:27
◼
►
gobbled up all these services I'm not
[TS]
02:53:29
◼
►
Indian Ragab well up they created them
[TS]
02:53:31
◼
►
but you don't know what can you use
[TS]
02:53:32
◼
►
WeChat from a browser no right noble
[TS]
02:53:36
◼
►
only yeah they have they have an app for
[TS]
02:53:40
◼
►
mac and windows it what's the this is
[TS]
02:53:43
◼
►
actually it's worth downloading because
[TS]
02:53:45
◼
►
I think it's really interesting people
[TS]
02:53:47
◼
►
it drives through the wall like people
[TS]
02:53:48
◼
►
who are using PC's just a present the
[TS]
02:53:50
◼
►
wall but I think if you can understand
[TS]
02:53:52
◼
►
how the palatable mac app works you'll
[TS]
02:53:54
◼
►
start to kind of rock this so what you
[TS]
02:53:56
◼
►
do is you can download the WeChat app
[TS]
02:53:59
◼
►
from like the Mac Apple Store or Mac
[TS]
02:54:02
◼
►
Apple Store the Mac App Store and when
[TS]
02:54:04
◼
►
you launch the app what it does is it uh
[TS]
02:54:07
◼
►
it brings up a much I promotional Mouse
[TS]
02:54:10
◼
►
I should get it so you bring it up and
[TS]
02:54:12
◼
►
it has your picture and you click login
[TS]
02:54:14
◼
►
when you click login you don't actually
[TS]
02:54:17
◼
►
type a username or password it brings up
[TS]
02:54:20
◼
►
a QR code and what you have to do is you
[TS]
02:54:22
◼
►
have to open the WeChat app on your
[TS]
02:54:24
◼
►
phone scan the QR code which I'll do it
[TS]
02:54:27
◼
►
now and then boom you're logged in on
[TS]
02:54:29
◼
►
the desktop because it like it sends it
[TS]
02:54:30
◼
►
up to the WeChat servers that yes this
[TS]
02:54:32
◼
►
is this is the right device and then it
[TS]
02:54:34
◼
►
and then you're logged in it's it's
[TS]
02:54:37
◼
►
honestly worth downloading just to
[TS]
02:54:38
◼
►
experience this because if you're a
[TS]
02:54:41
◼
►
regular PC user and I heard from people
[TS]
02:54:43
◼
►
like oh man I have you tried using it on
[TS]
02:54:45
◼
►
the PC it's terrible what do you mean
[TS]
02:54:46
◼
►
they have a good user experience blah
[TS]
02:54:47
◼
►
blah blah well mainly that app is there
[TS]
02:54:51
◼
►
for old fogies like you and I who still
[TS]
02:54:52
◼
►
want to use a PC but it really gets the
[TS]
02:54:57
◼
►
centrality of mobile like you have to
[TS]
02:55:00
◼
►
use your phone to log in on on the PC
[TS]
02:55:02
◼
►
and it once you grok that I think you
[TS]
02:55:05
◼
►
can kind of start to understand what it
[TS]
02:55:07
◼
►
means that mobile actually be the center
[TS]
02:55:09
◼
►
of everything not to be a peripheral
[TS]
02:55:12
◼
►
alright here's my other thing I want to
[TS]
02:55:14
◼
►
get before we wrap this up and we I
[TS]
02:55:15
◼
►
think we're hitting them on our mark
[TS]
02:55:18
◼
►
[Laughter]
[TS]
02:55:20
◼
►
two hours now three three hours all
[TS]
02:55:23
◼
►
right well we can't go over four I got
[TS]
02:55:27
◼
►
it right
[TS]
02:55:27
◼
►
how do you square this obsession with
[TS]
02:55:30
◼
►
the appearance of the external
[TS]
02:55:33
◼
►
appearance of the phones with the fact
[TS]
02:55:35
◼
►
that it all around the world majority of
[TS]
02:55:39
◼
►
users put their phones in cases but in
[TS]
02:55:41
◼
►
China it's by all accounts is it
[TS]
02:55:44
◼
►
probably the highest rate of people
[TS]
02:55:46
◼
►
putting their phones in cases because
[TS]
02:55:48
◼
►
the resale protecting the rear it's the
[TS]
02:55:51
◼
►
whole thing we know that with the people
[TS]
02:55:52
◼
►
not wanting to use the home button and
[TS]
02:55:54
◼
►
using the accessibility feature to put a
[TS]
02:55:56
◼
►
virtual home button on the screen
[TS]
02:55:58
◼
►
because they don't want to wear out the
[TS]
02:55:59
◼
►
button so that it protects the resale
[TS]
02:56:02
◼
►
value of the phone so if everybody puts
[TS]
02:56:04
◼
►
their phone in a case how do you even
[TS]
02:56:06
◼
►
you know like the red you know let the
[TS]
02:56:09
◼
►
red phone is a perfect example you put
[TS]
02:56:10
◼
►
the red iPhone in a case the button is
[TS]
02:56:12
◼
►
even red so you know way to tell that
[TS]
02:56:14
◼
►
it's a red iPhone uh yeah this is one of
[TS]
02:56:17
◼
►
the reasons why it might be dampened I
[TS]
02:56:19
◼
►
think so there's two there's two aspects
[TS]
02:56:23
◼
►
of Apple it's not just it being a new
[TS]
02:56:25
◼
►
device it's also the fact that it's an
[TS]
02:56:27
◼
►
apple like Apple is a meaningful brand
[TS]
02:56:29
◼
►
it it is status conferring brand so and
[TS]
02:56:33
◼
►
that remains the case and will remain
[TS]
02:56:35
◼
►
the case even if you're you have a case
[TS]
02:56:38
◼
►
it's not like you're worried yes it's
[TS]
02:56:40
◼
►
not like a purse or something where you
[TS]
02:56:42
◼
►
can see across the road that someone has
[TS]
02:56:44
◼
►
a purse you're conveying status not to
[TS]
02:56:46
◼
►
strangers you're conveying status to the
[TS]
02:56:48
◼
►
people you're with and around you so
[TS]
02:56:50
◼
►
when you sit down at the office and you
[TS]
02:56:52
◼
►
pull your phone you put on your desk or
[TS]
02:56:53
◼
►
you're in a coffee shop I said you pull
[TS]
02:56:55
◼
►
it out you can see by you can just even
[TS]
02:56:58
◼
►
if it's in the case you can tell if it's
[TS]
02:57:00
◼
►
a if it's a new phone or not
[TS]
02:57:02
◼
►
interestingly you can't really tell if
[TS]
02:57:05
◼
►
it's a six or if it's a seven but you
[TS]
02:57:08
◼
►
can definitely tell if it's a 5s or or
[TS]
02:57:12
◼
►
six even right and you could tell the
[TS]
02:57:13
◼
►
difference between a and
[TS]
02:57:15
◼
►
for Android and and right right so you
[TS]
02:57:18
◼
►
start the Apple stats you can see that
[TS]
02:57:21
◼
►
it's an iPhone but it's not there's no
[TS]
02:57:23
◼
►
there's no status conferring for newness
[TS]
02:57:25
◼
►
in the fact that I can afford to buy the
[TS]
02:57:29
◼
►
newest phone and I have the the best
[TS]
02:57:31
◼
►
phone and and like why buy it yes if
[TS]
02:57:36
◼
►
you're if you're rich and you can afford
[TS]
02:57:37
◼
►
it and yes by all means buy a new iPhone
[TS]
02:57:40
◼
►
every year but if you're buying an
[TS]
02:57:43
◼
►
iPhone not just because it's an iPhone
[TS]
02:57:44
◼
►
but you want the status that it confers
[TS]
02:57:47
◼
►
on you well why not keep the iPhone 6
[TS]
02:57:50
◼
►
that looks the exact same as the iPhone
[TS]
02:57:51
◼
►
7 and spend your what little cash you
[TS]
02:57:54
◼
►
have I mean every Chinese rich
[TS]
02:57:56
◼
►
relatively speaking especially in the
[TS]
02:57:59
◼
►
big cities but on an absolute dollar
[TS]
02:58:01
◼
►
basis you know much much less money why
[TS]
02:58:04
◼
►
not spend that money on buying a new
[TS]
02:58:06
◼
►
wallet or something like that and I've
[TS]
02:58:08
◼
►
been thinking about it I actually think
[TS]
02:58:09
◼
►
that the prominent the prominence of
[TS]
02:58:12
◼
►
cases that the or the the puts the word
[TS]
02:58:16
◼
►
on the board but the fact that cases are
[TS]
02:58:18
◼
►
so ubiquitous actually plays against the
[TS]
02:58:21
◼
►
the ways that the iPhone 7 is new
[TS]
02:58:24
◼
►
because you can't see the jet black you
[TS]
02:58:27
◼
►
can't see that it's a red iPhone you
[TS]
02:58:31
◼
►
know the color alone and see that you
[TS]
02:58:32
◼
►
can see the dual camera yeah but that's
[TS]
02:58:35
◼
►
it so there are some changes but it's
[TS]
02:58:37
◼
►
there's it's nowhere near as much I
[TS]
02:58:39
◼
►
happen to think and I feel like one of
[TS]
02:58:42
◼
►
the most fascinating things about that
[TS]
02:58:44
◼
►
there's so much rumor and so much
[TS]
02:58:46
◼
►
speculation about this year's new
[TS]
02:58:48
◼
►
iPhones it's it's clearly a higher pitch
[TS]
02:58:50
◼
►
than usual years because there's this
[TS]
02:58:53
◼
►
every all the rumors are saying that
[TS]
02:58:55
◼
►
it's going to be something new and new
[TS]
02:58:56
◼
►
is more exciting than something that's
[TS]
02:58:57
◼
►
not new and like you said that there on
[TS]
02:59:01
◼
►
the nightly news in Taiwan um but
[TS]
02:59:05
◼
►
despite the fever pitch of these rumors
[TS]
02:59:07
◼
►
that there's something new and we hear
[TS]
02:59:08
◼
►
that it's an edged edge screen so that
[TS]
02:59:10
◼
►
we there's no actual leaks of what it's
[TS]
02:59:13
◼
►
going to look like like that to me like
[TS]
02:59:15
◼
►
you said you didn't lose him over in a
[TS]
02:59:16
◼
►
Richie and I talked about it last week
[TS]
02:59:18
◼
►
like it's almost excruciating reading
[TS]
02:59:20
◼
►
mark durman's stuff at Bloomberg because
[TS]
02:59:24
◼
►
it's entirely written around the central
[TS]
02:59:28
◼
►
point which is that mark
[TS]
02:59:29
◼
►
has no fucking idea what the next iPhone
[TS]
02:59:30
◼
►
looks like none and that's it
[TS]
02:59:34
◼
►
it's really kind of hard to write the
[TS]
02:59:36
◼
►
story where the gist of the story is I
[TS]
02:59:39
◼
►
have no idea what the iPhone next iPhone
[TS]
02:59:41
◼
►
looks like so it's is there's there is a
[TS]
02:59:45
◼
►
little bit I mean recently isn't there
[TS]
02:59:46
◼
►
like there's like some blueprints that
[TS]
02:59:47
◼
►
got out like the vertical camera and
[TS]
02:59:49
◼
►
stuff like that supposedly right but
[TS]
02:59:51
◼
►
they're all but they're not consistent
[TS]
02:59:53
◼
►
yeah so the vertically aligned camera
[TS]
02:59:54
◼
►
but government government did have
[TS]
02:59:58
◼
►
something about that but he
[TS]
02:59:58
◼
►
something about that but he
[TS]
03:00:00
◼
►
he wasn't first though like I don't
[TS]
03:00:02
◼
►
think any of that I don't think that
[TS]
03:00:03
◼
►
vertically aligned cameras came from him
[TS]
03:00:04
◼
►
first I think that plans leaked and then
[TS]
03:00:06
◼
►
he just wrote about him but then he
[TS]
03:00:08
◼
►
wrote that it would it would help the
[TS]
03:00:10
◼
►
iPhone moving the the dual camera from
[TS]
03:00:12
◼
►
horizontal to vertical II aligned would
[TS]
03:00:14
◼
►
to help the iPhone take better pictures
[TS]
03:00:15
◼
►
oh it wouldn't still do lenses the same
[TS]
03:00:20
◼
►
distance from each other it just it just
[TS]
03:00:23
◼
►
changes where they are on the body but
[TS]
03:00:25
◼
►
anyway uh I think that's why anyway
[TS]
03:00:29
◼
►
here's what I think there's my point my
[TS]
03:00:30
◼
►
point is this I think Apple is very much
[TS]
03:00:33
◼
►
aware of how many people put their
[TS]
03:00:37
◼
►
phones in cases and I think they're very
[TS]
03:00:39
◼
►
much aware and I think that part of the
[TS]
03:00:41
◼
►
design of the whatever the next form
[TS]
03:00:43
◼
►
factor for iPhone is is very much
[TS]
03:00:45
◼
►
designed in mind with the fact that it's
[TS]
03:00:47
◼
►
going to be in a case and I think they
[TS]
03:00:49
◼
►
started this with the iPhone 6 because I
[TS]
03:00:51
◼
►
think it's I think it's doing a way that
[TS]
03:00:53
◼
►
they justified to themselves the camera
[TS]
03:00:55
◼
►
bump which is that for most users the
[TS]
03:00:57
◼
►
camera bump is irrelevant because they
[TS]
03:00:59
◼
►
never noticed because it's in a case and
[TS]
03:01:00
◼
►
the case even the thinnest case is
[TS]
03:01:02
◼
►
thicker than the camera bump the camera
[TS]
03:01:05
◼
►
bump is actually a penalty for people
[TS]
03:01:06
◼
►
like me who don't use a case yeah I I
[TS]
03:01:10
◼
►
think that's a great point and the other
[TS]
03:01:12
◼
►
the other thing that I think it's really
[TS]
03:01:14
◼
►
interesting is this idea of this iPhone
[TS]
03:01:16
◼
►
like plus or preneur pro or whatever it
[TS]
03:01:18
◼
►
is that's going to be much more
[TS]
03:01:19
◼
►
expensive to me this is a very easy uh
[TS]
03:01:24
◼
►
it's it's interesting in water specs I
[TS]
03:01:25
◼
►
think it's a pretty optimal path
[TS]
03:01:28
◼
►
actually I think for Apple to grow
[TS]
03:01:30
◼
►
revenue because like theirs they're like
[TS]
03:01:36
◼
►
right now there is no we haven't them
[TS]
03:01:39
◼
►
and tested how high they can go they
[TS]
03:01:41
◼
►
know they can sell a lot at this price
[TS]
03:01:43
◼
►
point with it but the iPhone plus pushed
[TS]
03:01:45
◼
►
it up a hundred dollars and they sold
[TS]
03:01:46
◼
►
ton of um they're selling more even more
[TS]
03:01:48
◼
►
than they expected and this is the third
[TS]
03:01:49
◼
►
year in a row they've had the plus and
[TS]
03:01:51
◼
►
for three years in a row they've under
[TS]
03:01:52
◼
►
produced the plus size like the the plus
[TS]
03:01:54
◼
►
share of the iPhone is actually is
[TS]
03:01:57
◼
►
actually becoming more and more and I'm
[TS]
03:02:00
◼
►
really interested about this sort of new
[TS]
03:02:02
◼
►
even higher tier sort of sort of model
[TS]
03:02:06
◼
►
and I think it is a something that will
[TS]
03:02:08
◼
►
play very well in in the China market I
[TS]
03:02:11
◼
►
not just uh I think it's a balance right
[TS]
03:02:15
◼
►
so you don't want to ruin the brand
[TS]
03:02:16
◼
►
value of the seven 600 700 700 ollar
[TS]
03:02:20
◼
►
phone I mean once you you are getting
[TS]
03:02:23
◼
►
pretty darn expensive once you're going
[TS]
03:02:26
◼
►
beyond that but the implication of being
[TS]
03:02:29
◼
►
going beyond that is the sort of status
[TS]
03:02:31
◼
►
and visibility that comes from having
[TS]
03:02:33
◼
►
that is even greater and where do you
[TS]
03:02:36
◼
►
strike the balance between being
[TS]
03:02:38
◼
►
accessible to enough people versus
[TS]
03:02:40
◼
►
getting in a iPhone 5c situation where
[TS]
03:02:43
◼
►
it's kind of like the the there was a a
[TS]
03:02:46
◼
►
gulf between or in perception because
[TS]
03:02:49
◼
►
you're clearly buying the cheap iPhone
[TS]
03:02:50
◼
►
right that's going to be very very
[TS]
03:02:52
◼
►
interesting to see how that plays out
[TS]
03:02:53
◼
►
and how how far they try to push it yeah
[TS]
03:02:56
◼
►
I think that if it's true and Rene was
[TS]
03:02:59
◼
►
talking about this last week where Rene
[TS]
03:03:01
◼
►
seems pretty sold on the idea that the
[TS]
03:03:05
◼
►
successors to the 7s and 7s bar 7 and 7
[TS]
03:03:09
◼
►
and 7 plus god it's I get the S is wrong
[TS]
03:03:13
◼
►
whether they call it the 7s or they call
[TS]
03:03:15
◼
►
it the iPhone 8 or something maybe if
[TS]
03:03:18
◼
►
it's even newer but that there will be
[TS]
03:03:20
◼
►
at this you know the same price points
[TS]
03:03:21
◼
►
as the 7 and 7 plus today that this
[TS]
03:03:24
◼
►
iPhone Pro or whatever you want to call
[TS]
03:03:26
◼
►
it is going to be significantly more
[TS]
03:03:28
◼
►
expensive um I think that's the only way
[TS]
03:03:31
◼
►
to do it it's the only way that makes
[TS]
03:03:32
◼
►
sense and I feel like a lot of times you
[TS]
03:03:34
◼
►
can kind of answer like the the
[TS]
03:03:37
◼
►
Kremlinology of Apple is is it going to
[TS]
03:03:39
◼
►
cause people to lose their shit the
[TS]
03:03:41
◼
►
moment it's announced and like I'd say
[TS]
03:03:44
◼
►
let's say they come out with let's say
[TS]
03:03:46
◼
►
they come out with a replacement for the
[TS]
03:03:49
◼
►
7 and the 7 plus to call it the 7s and
[TS]
03:03:52
◼
►
7s plus just for the sake of this
[TS]
03:03:54
◼
►
discussion at the same price points and
[TS]
03:03:56
◼
►
it has reasonably you know what you
[TS]
03:03:58
◼
►
expect from Apple year-over-year
[TS]
03:03:59
◼
►
technology wise the GPU graph keeps
[TS]
03:04:02
◼
►
going up on the hockey stick the camera
[TS]
03:04:04
◼
►
has x y&z that it does better and you
[TS]
03:04:07
◼
►
can take a side by side picture with the
[TS]
03:04:09
◼
►
year-old camera and you can see things
[TS]
03:04:10
◼
►
that are better in the new one
[TS]
03:04:13
◼
►
better battery life maybe you know just
[TS]
03:04:15
◼
►
typical things like that and they have
[TS]
03:04:17
◼
►
this phone that is a jaw-dropping
[TS]
03:04:19
◼
►
physical form factor and let's say the
[TS]
03:04:21
◼
►
starting price is $1,500
[TS]
03:04:24
◼
►
like people would lose their fuckin shit
[TS]
03:04:26
◼
►
if all of a sudden in this market of
[TS]
03:04:29
◼
►
Apple and these Samsung and all these
[TS]
03:04:31
◼
►
super phones that are in the 700 800
[TS]
03:04:33
◼
►
dollar range and Apple just doubles the
[TS]
03:04:34
◼
►
price for this new top tier and sells a
[TS]
03:04:37
◼
►
fifteen or sixteen hundred dollar
[TS]
03:04:39
◼
►
starting point
[TS]
03:04:40
◼
►
iPhone would people lose their shit
[TS]
03:04:44
◼
►
absolutely now the other tricky Apple
[TS]
03:04:46
◼
►
thing that they could be doing is
[TS]
03:04:47
◼
►
seeding this idea of a higher than
[TS]
03:04:51
◼
►
thousand dollar starting point and then
[TS]
03:04:53
◼
►
just making the new design at the at the
[TS]
03:04:56
◼
►
existing starting points that the whole
[TS]
03:04:57
◼
►
thing is some kind of ruse and that
[TS]
03:04:59
◼
►
everybody thinks fears that this new
[TS]
03:05:00
◼
►
phone is going to be super expensive and
[TS]
03:05:02
◼
►
it turns out to be you know the same
[TS]
03:05:05
◼
►
prices the current ones because remember
[TS]
03:05:06
◼
►
like that famously the iPad yes leaked
[TS]
03:05:10
◼
►
is a thousand dollars and it started
[TS]
03:05:12
◼
►
like $4.99 that was amazing cuz it works
[TS]
03:05:15
◼
►
so well like people were blown away at
[TS]
03:05:19
◼
►
how inexpensive this device right
[TS]
03:05:21
◼
►
because that did and it set the
[TS]
03:05:23
◼
►
expectations right Jobs had talked it up
[TS]
03:05:25
◼
►
sufficiently talked it up during the
[TS]
03:05:27
◼
►
keynote lounging in his nice little
[TS]
03:05:29
◼
►
chair that it easily sounded like he was
[TS]
03:05:32
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going to say this thing is so freakin
[TS]
03:05:34
◼
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great you're gonna love spending $1000
[TS]
03:05:36
◼
►
on this and it was half the price but
[TS]
03:05:38
◼
►
anyway the I could see them doing it
[TS]
03:05:40
◼
►
both ways I would have to say that in
[TS]
03:05:41
◼
►
the post Steve Jobs world it's more
[TS]
03:05:43
◼
►
likely that they're going to sell it for
[TS]
03:05:44
◼
►
$1,500 yeah maybe that that people would
[TS]
03:05:48
◼
►
definitely lose their minds on that the
[TS]
03:05:50
◼
►
other thing that's interesting I wonder
[TS]
03:05:52
◼
►
if the high end is there's going to be
[TS]
03:05:53
◼
►
do you think it'll be like a pencil sort
[TS]
03:05:55
◼
►
of thing like the the Samsung Note sort
[TS]
03:05:59
◼
►
under that would be a way to
[TS]
03:06:00
◼
►
differentiate it and call it pro and
[TS]
03:06:02
◼
►
kind of match the the iPad pro I don't
[TS]
03:06:04
◼
►
know maming I don't know I can't see
[TS]
03:06:06
◼
►
them doing a pencil for it or if they
[TS]
03:06:08
◼
►
did it would just be the regular pencil
[TS]
03:06:09
◼
►
right I don't get where it has pencil
[TS]
03:06:13
◼
►
support you as opposed to having
[TS]
03:06:14
◼
►
something built in yeah it could be it
[TS]
03:06:17
◼
►
could be the pencil I don't know I mean
[TS]
03:06:18
◼
►
it obviously the pencil obviousl support
[TS]
03:06:21
◼
►
in the device obviously costs enough
[TS]
03:06:23
◼
►
money that they didn't put it in the
[TS]
03:06:25
◼
►
quote-unquote new iPad nine point seven
[TS]
03:06:29
◼
►
you know that always also it's a very
[TS]
03:06:31
◼
►
strong differentiator to I'm a very
[TS]
03:06:32
◼
►
queer thing that this more expensive
[TS]
03:06:35
◼
►
device does this this cheaper device
[TS]
03:06:36
◼
►
does not I could see them tossing if
[TS]
03:06:39
◼
►
they start at like fourteen fifteen
[TS]
03:06:41
◼
►
sixteen hundred dollars I could see them
[TS]
03:06:42
◼
►
putting air putts in the box yeah that's
[TS]
03:06:46
◼
►
I mean I that would blow my it would
[TS]
03:06:48
◼
►
blow my mind it was fifty hundred
[TS]
03:06:49
◼
►
dollars i guy was as thing like maybe
[TS]
03:06:51
◼
►
like a thousand or sores something like
[TS]
03:06:53
◼
►
that maybe you're right maybe maybe
[TS]
03:06:55
◼
►
they'll go all out I think it makes a
[TS]
03:06:57
◼
►
lot more sense in fact I think if you're
[TS]
03:06:59
◼
►
gonna go for it go for it well here's my
[TS]
03:07:01
◼
►
argument I've been thinking about this
[TS]
03:07:02
◼
►
an awful lot is if it's only a hundred
[TS]
03:07:04
◼
►
dollars more expensive like going from
[TS]
03:07:05
◼
►
the 7 to the 7 plus like getting
[TS]
03:07:08
◼
►
plus-sized with the otherwise same
[TS]
03:07:10
◼
►
components is a hundred dollar upgrade
[TS]
03:07:11
◼
►
right or is it a little more than
[TS]
03:07:13
◼
►
hundred a hundred and twenty uh yeah
[TS]
03:07:14
◼
►
yeah they did raise the price and I
[TS]
03:07:16
◼
►
think that was a lesson for Apple too
[TS]
03:07:18
◼
►
they raised the price and it didn't
[TS]
03:07:19
◼
►
matter they actually sold even more
[TS]
03:07:22
◼
►
pluses this year than than last year
[TS]
03:07:23
◼
►
right I don't really speaking I think it
[TS]
03:07:26
◼
►
has to be so much more expensive that it
[TS]
03:07:27
◼
►
keeps people from buying it that people
[TS]
03:07:29
◼
►
say I can I'm not there's no way I'm
[TS]
03:07:31
◼
►
buying I love it that looks amazing but
[TS]
03:07:32
◼
►
I'm not spending sixteen hundred dollars
[TS]
03:07:34
◼
►
on an iPhone and and therefore it can
[TS]
03:07:37
◼
►
ship in much lower quantities yeah
[TS]
03:07:41
◼
►
because if it's only a hundred dollars
[TS]
03:07:42
◼
►
more everybody would buy it everybody
[TS]
03:07:44
◼
►
not everybody but an enormous number of
[TS]
03:07:47
◼
►
people who would have otherwise but the
[TS]
03:07:50
◼
►
second level the one that's the new
[TS]
03:07:52
◼
►
phones that are level down they're all
[TS]
03:07:54
◼
►
just going to get the one that's more
[TS]
03:07:55
◼
►
expensive it can't just be $100 more
[TS]
03:07:57
◼
►
expensive if they're also doing if
[TS]
03:07:59
◼
►
they're really doing three new phones
[TS]
03:08:02
◼
►
yeah yeah the Apple it's really the
[TS]
03:08:05
◼
►
whole Apple pricing curve is really
[TS]
03:08:06
◼
►
fascinating because again it's a
[TS]
03:08:08
◼
►
monopoly right there you if you want iOS
[TS]
03:08:11
◼
►
you only have one choice so the optimal
[TS]
03:08:15
◼
►
where does Apple sign the right line
[TS]
03:08:18
◼
►
between uh you know maximizing
[TS]
03:08:22
◼
►
maximizing profit which by the way that
[TS]
03:08:24
◼
►
like the maximizing profit price is
[TS]
03:08:26
◼
►
always going to be higher than what it
[TS]
03:08:29
◼
►
would be in a more competitive well
[TS]
03:08:31
◼
►
obviously you're gonna sell fewer
[TS]
03:08:34
◼
►
devices but your your your total profits
[TS]
03:08:35
◼
►
gonna be more uh yet but they've your
[TS]
03:08:37
◼
►
they've never as I said before they've
[TS]
03:08:40
◼
►
never really pushed the high end but
[TS]
03:08:41
◼
►
you're right with the plus they are
[TS]
03:08:43
◼
►
did push it up 100 and they pushed up
[TS]
03:08:44
◼
►
another $30 and it has not only in its
[TS]
03:08:49
◼
►
increased sales it hasn't decreased them
[TS]
03:08:51
◼
►
which is like how much more Headroom
[TS]
03:08:53
◼
►
might they have it might be a lot and I
[TS]
03:08:55
◼
►
think it makes a lot of the more I think
[TS]
03:08:57
◼
►
about it the more I think it's going to
[TS]
03:08:58
◼
►
be you know who knows or maybe be $2,000
[TS]
03:09:01
◼
►
I don't know maybe be crazy expensive
[TS]
03:09:02
◼
►
you know because they're going to put
[TS]
03:09:04
◼
►
stuff into it that they cannot they
[TS]
03:09:06
◼
►
can't put in a $700 phone and or you
[TS]
03:09:10
◼
►
know cost wise and or they simply cannot
[TS]
03:09:13
◼
►
make in sufficient quantity there's you
[TS]
03:09:15
◼
►
know they sold
[TS]
03:09:15
◼
►
I think 77 million phones in the holiday
[TS]
03:09:18
◼
►
quarter last year something like that
[TS]
03:09:20
◼
►
seventy some million what if there's
[TS]
03:09:23
◼
►
some kind of cool new technology but
[TS]
03:09:25
◼
►
they can only reasonably expect to get
[TS]
03:09:27
◼
►
maybe five million of them in the first
[TS]
03:09:29
◼
►
quarter
[TS]
03:09:29
◼
►
you know then they'd have to they can
[TS]
03:09:32
◼
►
either not make the device and and stick
[TS]
03:09:35
◼
►
to what they can make in in quantities
[TS]
03:09:38
◼
►
like 70 million or they could price the
[TS]
03:09:41
◼
►
device at a point where five million
[TS]
03:09:43
◼
►
would be closer to the where supply and
[TS]
03:09:46
◼
►
demand me yeah if that or arrow could
[TS]
03:09:50
◼
►
just be that they they want to make more
[TS]
03:09:51
◼
►
I mean well they remember to this is the
[TS]
03:09:53
◼
►
company that's sold $20,000 gold Apple
[TS]
03:09:56
◼
►
watches I mean I'm excited you know and
[TS]
03:09:59
◼
►
they still you know they have the
[TS]
03:10:00
◼
►
addition now I mean and you know if they
[TS]
03:10:02
◼
►
called it the iPhone addition and they
[TS]
03:10:04
◼
►
maybe they'll charge $2,500 for it I
[TS]
03:10:06
◼
►
don't know and maybe will be ceramic I
[TS]
03:10:08
◼
►
mean I remember the I can remember what
[TS]
03:10:11
◼
►
his name is the great guy who writes
[TS]
03:10:12
◼
►
those brilliant konishiki articles yeah
[TS]
03:10:14
◼
►
he had a shot down the whole ceramic
[TS]
03:10:16
◼
►
iPhone thing and you know a big part of
[TS]
03:10:19
◼
►
his point was about was about volume and
[TS]
03:10:20
◼
►
like there's no way if they were
[TS]
03:10:22
◼
►
actually gonna do is add volume one and
[TS]
03:10:24
◼
►
be almost impossible but to like we
[TS]
03:10:26
◼
►
would definitely know about it uh but if
[TS]
03:10:28
◼
►
it's a women in addition $1500 phone
[TS]
03:10:33
◼
►
well Apple could probably pull that off
[TS]
03:10:35
◼
►
much more easily if they're already
[TS]
03:10:37
◼
►
making what's already making the watch
[TS]
03:10:38
◼
►
right it's not even it could be
[TS]
03:10:40
◼
►
something that sells in so few
[TS]
03:10:42
◼
►
quantities because it has to because
[TS]
03:10:43
◼
►
like maybe it's ceramics maybe it's
[TS]
03:10:45
◼
►
these OLED screens whatever else the
[TS]
03:10:47
◼
►
thing they have I don't know what if it
[TS]
03:10:49
◼
►
cost three thousand dollars and this axe
[TS]
03:10:52
◼
►
the Apple 2 Edition might so my wife my
[TS]
03:10:53
◼
►
wife actually has it uh it's it looks
[TS]
03:10:55
◼
►
good I think it will
[TS]
03:10:56
◼
►
but I mean better than the the gold ones
[TS]
03:10:59
◼
►
just looked wrong yeah I say I agree but
[TS]
03:11:02
◼
►
the the white ceramic with its it looks
[TS]
03:11:05
◼
►
really really good
[TS]
03:11:06
◼
►
and it pairs with all the straps and it
[TS]
03:11:08
◼
►
looks fantastic a phone that looks like
[TS]
03:11:10
◼
►
that would be would be it'd be hot yeah
[TS]
03:11:14
◼
►
it looks somehow to me I've always been
[TS]
03:11:16
◼
►
a fan of the black phones and to me I
[TS]
03:11:19
◼
►
just don't like the way that the black
[TS]
03:11:21
◼
►
rectangle of the screen looks surrounded
[TS]
03:11:24
◼
►
by a white bezel I don't like it on iPad
[TS]
03:11:26
◼
►
I just don't it's a personal thing
[TS]
03:11:28
◼
►
whereas on that the edition watch the
[TS]
03:11:31
◼
►
way that the black and the white
[TS]
03:11:32
◼
►
integrate because it's not really a
[TS]
03:11:34
◼
►
black rectangle surrounded by white it's
[TS]
03:11:36
◼
►
that black sapphire piece on top with
[TS]
03:11:38
◼
►
the black screen it rice really good
[TS]
03:11:41
◼
►
yeah it may just the watch usually kind
[TS]
03:11:44
◼
►
of has an offset color for the watch
[TS]
03:11:46
◼
►
face anyways yeah it's uh maybe Fisher
[TS]
03:11:48
◼
►
sort of expectations for the wrist
[TS]
03:11:50
◼
►
anyway so watch this become tight
[TS]
03:11:53
◼
►
Business Insider to headline tomorrow
[TS]
03:11:55
◼
►
John Gruber says iPhone edition set cost
[TS]
03:11:58
◼
►
three thousand dollars now all right
[TS]
03:12:01
◼
►
I'm literally nobody is ever I have no
[TS]
03:12:04
◼
►
source on this whatsoever I'm just
[TS]
03:12:06
◼
►
speculating I'm just saying it wouldn't
[TS]
03:12:08
◼
►
shock me and I would relish the I would
[TS]
03:12:12
◼
►
just love the the post keynote reaction
[TS]
03:12:15
◼
►
and III I mean I'm talking myself into
[TS]
03:12:19
◼
►
my own self created rumor but this idea
[TS]
03:12:21
◼
►
of it being a being ceramic being a
[TS]
03:12:24
◼
►
different material yeah I think would
[TS]
03:12:25
◼
►
really help them and know what off it is
[TS]
03:12:28
◼
►
anybody talking about the material of
[TS]
03:12:30
◼
►
the phone I don't think that they are
[TS]
03:12:31
◼
►
and they're talking about glass backs
[TS]
03:12:33
◼
►
but the glass back rumor seems to be
[TS]
03:12:35
◼
►
about the the you know regular level new
[TS]
03:12:38
◼
►
iPhones right it's a way to get away
[TS]
03:12:40
◼
►
with selling again I think like I think
[TS]
03:12:42
◼
►
this high-end phone is gonna like be it
[TS]
03:12:44
◼
►
would be a huge hit in China for all
[TS]
03:12:46
◼
►
these status sort of conferring reasons
[TS]
03:12:47
◼
►
I just I just discussed and this is a
[TS]
03:12:50
◼
►
way to get away with that without that I
[TS]
03:12:53
◼
►
was thinking about the whole pencil
[TS]
03:12:54
◼
►
thing right and I don't think Apple
[TS]
03:12:56
◼
►
wants to do that on the phone either I
[TS]
03:12:57
◼
►
should think about the what is going to
[TS]
03:12:58
◼
►
be the what's going to be the cell to
[TS]
03:13:01
◼
►
justify it being so much more expensive
[TS]
03:13:04
◼
►
whereas if it's a completely different
[TS]
03:13:05
◼
►
material uh in the case you know I think
[TS]
03:13:10
◼
►
you could especially since they already
[TS]
03:13:12
◼
►
set the precedent with the watch right
[TS]
03:13:13
◼
►
how much does it cost like 1200 or
[TS]
03:13:15
◼
►
something so it's it's it's four times
[TS]
03:13:17
◼
►
as much as the as the base watch and
[TS]
03:13:19
◼
►
much more a much more reasonable spread
[TS]
03:13:22
◼
►
in price I would say than the the
[TS]
03:13:24
◼
►
original edition to say the least and
[TS]
03:13:26
◼
►
you could see a similar thing I think
[TS]
03:13:29
◼
►
that it would be a thing they could pull
[TS]
03:13:30
◼
►
that off people would be Wes they would
[TS]
03:13:32
◼
►
lose their shit they would loot with
[TS]
03:13:34
◼
►
Cayman square properly they would lose
[TS]
03:13:36
◼
►
their shit because the price is so high
[TS]
03:13:38
◼
►
but it would be like how on earth are
[TS]
03:13:41
◼
►
they can even contemplate just fine it's
[TS]
03:13:43
◼
►
like wow they actually actually went
[TS]
03:13:45
◼
►
there as opposed to I don't understand
[TS]
03:13:47
◼
►
this doesn't make any sense right and
[TS]
03:13:48
◼
►
then I guarantee you that the thing I've
[TS]
03:13:51
◼
►
cited it to I think it's such a lovely
[TS]
03:13:52
◼
►
lovely a little quote but the Andy
[TS]
03:13:56
◼
►
Warhol quote about coke being like the
[TS]
03:13:59
◼
►
greatest American product because
[TS]
03:14:00
◼
►
there's just one type of coke and it's
[TS]
03:14:02
◼
►
the best it's the best soda and you know
[TS]
03:14:06
◼
►
that the bum on the street drinks the
[TS]
03:14:07
◼
►
exact same coke that the president
[TS]
03:14:09
◼
►
drinks that Liz Taylor drinks nobody
[TS]
03:14:11
◼
►
else you know nobody can get a better
[TS]
03:14:12
◼
►
coke and like with the Apple watch I got
[TS]
03:14:18
◼
►
so much stuff from readers who are like
[TS]
03:14:19
◼
►
this is a complete violation of Apple's
[TS]
03:14:21
◼
►
principles because apples always been
[TS]
03:14:22
◼
►
like coke in that regard where you can
[TS]
03:14:24
◼
►
get the you know you can get the best
[TS]
03:14:27
◼
►
phone in the world and you pay the same
[TS]
03:14:29
◼
►
that people buy for other phones you
[TS]
03:14:31
◼
►
know president United States can't get a
[TS]
03:14:33
◼
►
better cell phone than then you can but
[TS]
03:14:35
◼
►
if you're going to sell it for three or
[TS]
03:14:36
◼
►
four thousand dollars and all of a
[TS]
03:14:38
◼
►
sudden you're you know cutting people
[TS]
03:14:40
◼
►
off from the best but trust me happily
[TS]
03:14:43
◼
►
but apples already no crossed that well
[TS]
03:14:46
◼
►
no but they didn't though because the
[TS]
03:14:47
◼
►
low-end watch was still the same you
[TS]
03:14:49
◼
►
could get the exact same functionality
[TS]
03:14:51
◼
►
and that because Apple at the end of day
[TS]
03:14:53
◼
►
is a software company right and and but
[TS]
03:14:55
◼
►
this is so interesting is what if maybe
[TS]
03:14:59
◼
►
this high-end phone there are no other
[TS]
03:15:01
◼
►
differences right like maybe the
[TS]
03:15:03
◼
►
hardware is completely the same it's
[TS]
03:15:04
◼
►
just material and what whether because
[TS]
03:15:06
◼
►
the problem is Apple's market in China
[TS]
03:15:08
◼
►
is just different than the rest of the
[TS]
03:15:10
◼
►
world so again I think if they do this I
[TS]
03:15:13
◼
►
really think it's a China thing because
[TS]
03:15:14
◼
►
in China they are competing on brand in
[TS]
03:15:17
◼
►
status so in that case you don't want to
[TS]
03:15:20
◼
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be Andy Warhol you don't want to be
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anywhere else coke you want to be able
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create a special coke that people will
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pay lots of money to get my house they
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did I fired swear that circle
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I've tossed the I've tossed it out we're
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defending even obviously was a mistake I
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don't think it was wrong to try though
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with the solid gold edition' and I think
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the ceramic is a terrific second stab at
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the same idea but to me it's not that
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you're getting a better coke it's the
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exactly gig you said like you know
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03:15:51
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because of the software and because the
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CPU is the same and everything it's more
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03:15:55
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like drinking your coke out of a very
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03:15:56
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fancy goblet as opposed I exactly I'm on
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the street is drinking it out of the can
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03:16:01
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it's just both getting the same coke but
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03:16:03
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the person drinking it out of the you
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03:16:06
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know gold rimmed goblet is you know paid
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03:16:09
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for the rapper one thing that would be
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different would be the display because
[TS]
03:16:12
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every all the rumors point to to the you
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03:16:16
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know the to regular ought new iPhones
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03:16:17
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having the same size 4.7 and 5.5 inch
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03:16:20
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displays and the 5.8 inch super fancy
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03:16:24
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you know edge to edge display would be
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03:16:26
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on the new one but I wouldn't be
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03:16:28
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surprised if it as the exact same system
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03:16:29
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on a chip and same RAM and same storage
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03:16:31
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and stuff like that
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03:16:32
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well III yeah I may be there so yeah I
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03:16:35
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don't know right I see I've always been
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03:16:37
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skeptical of the 7s and 7s plus having
[TS]
03:16:41
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the same four factor as a seven there
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03:16:43
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being a new form factor at the very high
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end because we already saw how that
[TS]
03:16:47
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plays out with with the the 5c it's like
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03:16:49
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it it's well I didn't say same form
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03:16:52
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factor and the rumors don't say same
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03:16:53
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form factor the rumors just say same
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03:16:55
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screen sizes got it oh yeah yeah we'll
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see I mean I do this is pure speculation
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03:17:02
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as I think we said the beginning we
[TS]
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would say again I do completely making
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this stuff up uh but I yeah it seems
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just seem to make much more sense to me
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that the only differentiation being
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materials but maybe you're right maybe
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maybe it's bigger and bigger is better
[TS]
03:17:16
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in China is also will note I mean this
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03:17:19
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the people you can care about getting
[TS]
03:17:23
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like a small form-factor like the se
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03:17:25
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phone if you're not using your phone for
[TS]
03:17:27
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everything right that that almost comes
[TS]
03:17:29
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with the presumption that you're using a
[TS]
03:17:31
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PC regularly if you're or an iPad or
[TS]
03:17:33
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whatever if you want a smaller phone if
[TS]
03:17:36
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the phone is actually
[TS]
03:17:38
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what you use all the time and it's the
[TS]
03:17:40
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key to your life and everything that you
[TS]
03:17:41
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do both inside the house and outside the
[TS]
03:17:43
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house you want the bigger if you want a
[TS]
03:17:45
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bigger screen like there's just no
[TS]
03:17:46
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there's no ifs ands or buts about it
[TS]
03:17:48
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all right Ben Thompson the Todd Vaziri
[TS]
03:17:51
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is going to be very happy Todd Vaziri is
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03:17:54
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the talk show listener who periodically
[TS]
03:17:56
◼
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charts episode lengths over time but is
[TS]
03:18:00
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usually whenever I post a long episode
[TS]
03:18:03
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usually he usually deems me I thought
[TS]
03:18:05
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just a thumbs up
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03:18:06
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no no context no reference I just get it
[TS]
03:18:08
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I get a thumbs up from todd Vaziri
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03:18:11
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that's buddy I predict this will be a
[TS]
03:18:13
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thumbs up episode everybody can read you
[TS]
03:18:15
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and your your fine work at strattera
[TS]
03:18:19
◼
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just this search for Ben Thompson on
[TS]
03:18:21
◼
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Google for Ben Thompson wait I think
[TS]
03:18:24
◼
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what the first times eyes on I
[TS]
03:18:25
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misspelled search a curry and I think I
[TS]
03:18:27
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went and bought the misspelled domain
[TS]
03:18:30
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and I spelled it wrong and then I
[TS]
03:18:32
◼
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directed it to my site yeah just to
[TS]
03:18:34
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prevent on something you can't go wrong
[TS]
03:18:35
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and we've got at Ben Thompson on Twitter
[TS]
03:18:38
◼
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a fine Twitter account and then there's
[TS]
03:18:39
◼
►
also your no tech Ben Twitter account
[TS]
03:18:42
◼
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where you tweet about the NBA who ya
[TS]
03:18:45
◼
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thinks going to win that NBA this year
[TS]
03:18:47
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Oh Warriors alright I think they're the
[TS]
03:18:50
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very heavy favorite Sunday night it
[TS]
03:18:53
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would be amazing and phenomenal if if
[TS]
03:18:55
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the Cavs rate will not come off but I
[TS]
03:18:56
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mean I think they have to be the oops
[TS]
03:18:58
◼
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they have to be the very heavy favorites
[TS]
03:18:59
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►
yeah what's going on with the Spurs why
[TS]
03:19:01
◼
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this first struggling well the problem
[TS]
03:19:04
◼
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the problem the Spurs at a very high
[TS]
03:19:07
◼
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level is they don't have very dynamic
[TS]
03:19:08
◼
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guard play because their guards got old
[TS]
03:19:10
◼
►
and now Tony Parker's injured which is
[TS]
03:19:12
◼
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very sad but the I think another problem
[TS]
03:19:14
◼
►
is the Spurs system is so their system
[TS]
03:19:18
◼
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is so amazing and everyone plays well
[TS]
03:19:20
◼
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and they always have amazing bench units
[TS]
03:19:22
◼
►
and I think a lot of the reason in the
[TS]
03:19:24
◼
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regular season they're just better
[TS]
03:19:25
◼
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prepared and deeper than all the other
[TS]
03:19:27
◼
►
teams so they just win lots of games
[TS]
03:19:29
◼
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because of the system the problem is
[TS]
03:19:31
◼
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when you get to the playoffs the
[TS]
03:19:33
◼
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rotations become shorter you play fewer
[TS]
03:19:35
◼
►
players sometimes you play too few like
[TS]
03:19:37
◼
►
I think the Spurs won last night because
[TS]
03:19:39
◼
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the Rockets just got too tired they only
[TS]
03:19:41
◼
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played seven people right so some
[TS]
03:19:42
◼
►
players but once you have the playoffs
[TS]
03:19:44
◼
►
the it's it's not the median versus the
[TS]
03:19:48
◼
►
median where's the regular season it's
[TS]
03:19:49
◼
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kind of like the system in the play
[TS]
03:19:51
◼
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it's the best versus the best you're
[TS]
03:19:52
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playing your best guys they're playing
[TS]
03:19:53
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more minutes
[TS]
03:19:54
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you're expressly game planning for your
[TS]
03:19:56
◼
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opponent attacking their weaknesses and
[TS]
03:19:58
◼
►
picking on them again and again and
[TS]
03:19:59
◼
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again and so the playoffs are just so
[TS]
03:20:01
◼
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very different than regular season that
[TS]
03:20:03
◼
►
I think they have a hard time going up
[TS]
03:20:05
◼
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to another level because they're already
[TS]
03:20:07
◼
►
at such a high level yeah the intensity
[TS]
03:20:09
◼
►
is so much higher that it tends to keep
[TS]
03:20:11
◼
►
the games closer and then you get in a
[TS]
03:20:13
◼
►
fourth quarter and it really just comes
[TS]
03:20:14
◼
►
down to you know your best five or six
[TS]
03:20:16
◼
►
against the other best five or six yeah
[TS]
03:20:18
◼
►
in just the whole game because a lot of
[TS]
03:20:20
◼
►
Spurs in the regular season in like that
[TS]
03:20:22
◼
►
second and fourth quarter when the bench
[TS]
03:20:23
◼
►
units are in they'll often blow the game
[TS]
03:20:25
◼
►
open yeah but in the in the playoffs the
[TS]
03:20:28
◼
►
those time periods are very very short
[TS]
03:20:31
◼
►
so I mean this spurt the Spurs are
[TS]
03:20:33
◼
►
amazing they they've won four or five
[TS]
03:20:35
◼
►
titles people think five titles in the
[TS]
03:20:38
◼
►
last you know whatever number of years
[TS]
03:20:40
◼
►
the NBA it's unbelievably difficult to
[TS]
03:20:42
◼
►
win a title like four teams account for
[TS]
03:20:44
◼
►
like 70% of all the titles because it
[TS]
03:20:48
◼
►
just it's so dependent on having the
[TS]
03:20:50
◼
►
best player that a best player or
[TS]
03:20:53
◼
►
collection of best players just
[TS]
03:20:54
◼
►
dominates for for for a long time right
[TS]
03:20:57
◼
►
but the Spurs that have also in that
[TS]
03:20:59
◼
►
time period they've won a lot they've
[TS]
03:21:00
◼
►
also lost a lot even when the higher
[TS]
03:21:02
◼
►
seed and I think it's because of this
[TS]
03:21:06
◼
►
they're great they perform at such a
[TS]
03:21:08
◼
►
high level with such consistency that
[TS]
03:21:10
◼
►
they dominate the regular season again
[TS]
03:21:12
◼
►
and again but that is less meaningful in
[TS]
03:21:15
◼
►
a playoff context do you think the
[TS]
03:21:17
◼
►
Warriors lose a game before the finals
[TS]
03:21:21
◼
►
I don't if I uh I think it would I take
[TS]
03:21:28
◼
►
an injury or something somebody's going
[TS]
03:21:29
◼
►
to somebody would have to get in the way
[TS]
03:21:31
◼
►
they're playing now there's no one in
[TS]
03:21:32
◼
►
the West who's going to win a game from
[TS]
03:21:33
◼
►
yeah they're the probably the best bet
[TS]
03:21:37
◼
►
is Houston gets there and they just make
[TS]
03:21:39
◼
►
like thirty threes in a game right um
[TS]
03:21:41
◼
►
and it just just through sheer shooting
[TS]
03:21:45
◼
►
so I think it'd be a reasonable bet um
[TS]
03:21:48
◼
►
but yeah there was that game a few
[TS]
03:21:50
◼
►
months ago yeah again the regular season
[TS]
03:21:51
◼
►
so it'll can't take too much from it but
[TS]
03:21:53
◼
►
where the Spurs jumped out like a twenty
[TS]
03:21:55
◼
►
five to three weed on the Warriors and
[TS]
03:21:57
◼
►
the Warriors ended up winning by like
[TS]
03:21:59
◼
►
fifteen that's right it that it was like
[TS]
03:22:02
◼
►
is just the morale it had to be
[TS]
03:22:03
◼
►
demoralizing for
[TS]
03:22:04
◼
►
is demoralizing as a vassal fast like
[TS]
03:22:06
◼
►
yeah that's it's over all right I look
[TS]
03:22:09
◼
►
forward to seeing you next month in
[TS]
03:22:12
◼
►
person yes I will I will see you soon
[TS]