The Accidental Tech Podcast

221: Personal Body Chemistry

 

  real-time follow-up as of approximately [TS]

  10 or so minutes ago I'm now an uncle [TS]

  hey congratulations eh [TS]

  do you intend to be a creepy uncle or a [TS]

  fun uncle or some other kind of I hadn't [TS]

  even thought about it but I mean you got [TS]

  to think about these things he's gonna [TS]

  try to be the cool uncle we already know [TS]

  that the question is the question is [TS]

  what is he going to be that is it that's [TS]

  true 100% that is 100% accurate I I wish [TS]

  I could deny it but that is absolutely [TS]

  accurate so I wanted to spend a moment [TS]

  and talk about the somewhat political [TS]

  section of our last episode and we got a [TS]

  lot of feedback we got a lot of good [TS]

  feedback we got a lot of bad feedback [TS]

  but one thing that was common that I [TS]

  think was on me that I wanted to [TS]

  apologize to listeners for is at one [TS]

  point in the heat of getting fired up or [TS]

  in the midst of getting fired up I'd [TS]

  said in so many words you know if you [TS]

  disagree with me you're a monster [TS]

  and name-calling is not really a [TS]

  constructive way to have a reasoned [TS]

  debate not to say that that debate was [TS]

  terribly reasoned anyway but [TS]

  name-calling does not really help the [TS]

  scenario and and you know if I'm gonna [TS]

  if I'm going to be grumpy about other [TS]

  people name-calling then I should be [TS]

  grumpy about me doing it and so no no [TS]

  snark intended I really do apologize for [TS]

  name-calling I stand by the general [TS]

  premise of what I said which is to say I [TS]

  think that some of the behaviors of [TS]

  those who who want to take away health [TS]

  care that is a monstrous behavior but [TS]

  that does not bind a zesty make somebody [TS]

  a monster so I know you guys can either [TS]

  confirm or deny everything I've just [TS]

  said but for what it's worth I feel bad [TS]

  about that and I wish I had handled that [TS]

  a little bit better despite by-and-large [TS]

  sticking by pretty much everything I [TS]

  said but the name-calling doesn't help I [TS]

  think you undercut yourself with the [TS]

  monstrous behaviorist thing because I'm [TS]

  not sure that distinction is [TS]

  particularly important but that like [TS]

  that and we don't usually talk about [TS]

  politics and show and I think we kind of [TS]

  accidentally talked about it which is [TS]

  fitting because it was not on a topic [TS]

  list and it was not slid right into it [TS]

  from wiki Tribune which was on the topic [TS]

  list and end up staying in the show [TS]

  unlike many other similar discussions [TS]

  but one of the main problems with [TS]

  anytime we get into [TS]

  politics is that for the most part the [TS]

  three of us are coming from the same [TS]

  place like we we agree on the issues and [TS]

  actually surprisingly difficult to talk [TS]

  about a controversial political issue [TS]

  amongst three people who all agree with [TS]

  each other and it's why we get the [TS]

  complaints of like you know echo chamber [TS]

  so and so for the good thing and the bad [TS]

  thing about podcast is even though it's [TS]

  just three of us talking about it and we [TS]

  all agree in aggregate it's not an echo [TS]

  chamber because believe me the opposing [TS]

  opinions are presented to us right so we [TS]

  just don't get them in real time it is [TS]

  delayed but that's not you know we're [TS]

  not doing a political debate show but [TS]

  but yeah so when we're all talking about [TS]

  and we all more or less agree we're just [TS]

  like saying things that each one of us [TS]

  agrees about there's not even that much [TS]

  nuanced or a disagreement and it just [TS]

  kind of spirals off from there and I [TS]

  don't I don't it's difficult to it's [TS]

  difficult to clarify our thinking on it [TS]

  when there is essentially no opposition [TS]

  on the podcast itself so that's that's [TS]

  difficulty I always feel when when [TS]

  engaging those enema and listening to [TS]

  them always trying to look for an angle [TS]

  that is illuminating rather than just [TS]

  the three of us venting which [TS]

  occasionally happens occasionally got a [TS]

  vent and occasionally we're feeling bad [TS]

  about things I'm surprised after the [TS]

  presidential election we didn't have a [TS]

  similar show somehow we avoided it but [TS]

  it came out last week [TS]

  I have no regrets I had a feeling but [TS]

  you know like in and out Lance says in [TS]

  the chat saying that the people are [TS]

  monsters is kind of productive and makes [TS]

  the argument sound dumb and I would [TS]

  agree with that so I am sorry for that [TS]

  that portion of the discussion the rest [TS]

  of it I pretty much stick by I think one [TS]

  thing that that is really badly missing [TS]

  in our culture is the ability to agree [TS]

  on some like you know cause and effect [TS]

  norms or like being able to talk about [TS]

  cause and effect without it being [TS]

  assumed to be or without being [TS]

  politicized cuz like you know if we you [TS]

  know like the health care debate it's [TS]

  like you know would like when I was [TS]

  saying last week about how like I want [TS]

  people to actually think through their [TS]

  arguments of you know like well how do [TS]

  we think people in society should be [TS]

  treated and how do we think you know the [TS]

  government should take care of people or [TS]

  not take care of people I wish we could [TS]

  talk about that in we as a society I [TS]

  wish we could talk about that [TS]

  at without it being so politically [TS]

  charged in people immediately jumping [TS]

  down each other's throats about their [TS]

  about like their identities because what [TS]

  we need to instead be able to talk about [TS]

  is like you know what how do we want to [TS]

  treat people in our society who need [TS]

  some kind of help [TS]

  hey you know how do we want the standard [TS]

  of that should be to be that we should [TS]

  just let people you know fail and die [TS]

  and starve or not and if the answer is [TS]

  not then how do we allocate these [TS]

  resources how do we pay for them and I [TS]

  wish we could actually talk about that [TS]

  but the second you you give an opinion [TS]

  either way on that whether you say I [TS]

  think society should help those less [TS]

  fortunate whether you think you know we [TS]

  should provide for people and we should [TS]

  like not let people fail too badly or [TS]

  starve or die or whether you think that [TS]

  we should just let people do all those [TS]

  things that shouldn't be a US Republican [TS]

  versus Democrat thing but it is and so [TS]

  it's hard to say like oh we should stay [TS]

  away from political topics or or that [TS]

  every view is valid when some of these [TS]

  views people on both sides think that [TS]

  it's not just politics that it's like [TS]

  base the basics of their identity or of [TS]

  human standards of decency and [TS]

  obligations to each other and it's not [TS]

  just political it's not like I think we [TS]

  should you know vote for the person on [TS]

  the red versus the person in the blue or [TS]

  whatever else it's like I want people [TS]

  who aren't like me to die or I want to [TS]

  help people and those shouldn't be [TS]

  political opinions those should be like [TS]

  this is the one that we teach ourselves [TS]

  and that we value because we're good [TS]

  people and this is the other one but [TS]

  apparently that's not what these things [TS]

  are but nobody wants people to die [TS]

  that's no no gonna say I'll save it ever [TS]

  they very much do I mean so that's [TS]

  that's it I don't want to get into it [TS]

  again but let's I feel like I can argue [TS]

  the other side pretty decently to like [TS]

  the old other side again I voted to like [TS]

  the 80s when they used to make arguments [TS]

  actually we all agree on what we want to [TS]

  accomplish is just a difference of [TS]

  opinion on how to best accomplish it [TS]

  right that debate is a lot easier to [TS]

  have what you're getting at is it [TS]

  doesn't feel like we're even unified on [TS]

  the goal but even though the [TS]

  consequences of these decisions may be [TS]

  real it's not connected in a straight [TS]

  line in terms of I want people who [TS]

  aren't like me to die like I I don't [TS]

  think you will get anybody to own that [TS]

  opinion anywhere well that's true but [TS]

  the problem is that people will will [TS]

  very strongly own opinions that precede [TS]

  that but if you actually follow them [TS]

  through the conclusions then that is [TS]

  that as a penalty so suppose somebody [TS]

  has a life-threatening illness that is [TS]

  treatable but they can't afford the [TS]

  treatment what should happen in this [TS]

  case should should our society find a [TS]

  way to pay for people in these kinds of [TS]

  conditions to get treatment or should we [TS]

  let them die that is that is a [TS]

  fundamental you know argument that that [TS]

  we have seemingly about every ten years [TS]

  and if you're on the side of we should [TS]

  help people it seems like you'd be a [TS]

  total monster to use Casey's word right [TS]

  it seemed to keep me a total monster to [TS]

  argue the other side of that to say like [TS]

  you know actually no we we should let [TS]

  people die like no that's but but that [TS]

  actually want them to die then want them [TS]

  they're not wishing them ill they wish [TS]

  that if they could snap their fingers [TS]

  and cure them they would say yes you're [TS]

  cured we should totally do that [TS]

  it's just unfortunate situation and [TS]

  there's just you know debating the best [TS]

  way to allocate scarce resources and to [TS]

  incentivize the right behaviors and blah [TS]

  blah blah like it we start shift into [TS]

  the more intellectual argument towards [TS]

  it but when you connect it up to like [TS]

  MAOIs like to say that people have [TS]

  malice towards that like it's not and [TS]

  get it ignoring the specifics of this [TS]

  thing [TS]

  more generally the other general topic [TS]

  on the political stuff is this happens [TS]

  the maze happens to everybody when [TS]

  you're listening to someone talk about [TS]

  something whether it's political or [TS]

  technological or anything on a podcast [TS]

  they will especially a things with two [TS]

  sides red-blue Mac PC whatever it may be [TS]

  you know the two-sided debate they will [TS]

  address a thing like people who support [TS]

  X are wrong because blah blah blah blah [TS]

  and if people support X are on a [TS]

  particular team and [TS]

  you were also on that team but you don't [TS]

  support X they'll say people is for X [TS]

  here's what I don't like about it and [TS]

  people will get offended to say well I [TS]

  don't support X but on the same team as [TS]

  the people support Xing because you're [TS]

  yelling at that person I feel you're set [TS]

  you're yelling at me and like it's very [TS]

  difficult to hold on to the the thread [TS]

  that says look if they are complaining [TS]

  about something that you don't believe [TS]

  they're not talking to you well you know [TS]

  I mean like that but but when there are [TS]

  two teams it's like what they're saying [TS]

  anything about my team even though I [TS]

  agree with them on this specific point [TS]

  it's like they're attacking my team and [TS]

  I feel attacked like are you trying to [TS]

  say that I believe X is like well if you [TS]

  don't believe X we're not talking to you [TS]

  and so like is this not addressed with [TS]

  you but when there's two teams when the [TS]

  two teams and it's on your team you [TS]

  can't help but get pulled into it and [TS]

  again that happens that happens with [TS]

  everybody especially with two sided [TS]

  debates or you know actual sports teams [TS]

  as the case may be where you can't can't [TS]

  wrap your mind around a player on your [TS]

  favorite sports team maybe did something [TS]

  bad but you really do love the sports [TS]

  team you try square that circle so when [TS]

  someone says hey that that person had [TS]

  smart team did a bad thing you say you'd [TS]

  be quiet he didn't do a bad thing and [TS]

  really in your heart of hearts you also [TS]

  agree did a bad thing but you love the [TS]

  sports team right so anyway that's a [TS]

  difficulty and when I'm listening to [TS]

  people talk about you know whether it's [TS]

  to like or dislike a particular movie or [TS]

  a director or a TV show or you know Mac [TS]

  versus PC things is very easy to think [TS]

  that they're talking about you or to you [TS]

  ascribing to you beliefs that you don't [TS]

  have when you have to realize it's a [TS]

  broadcast medium and no one is saying [TS]

  you specifically they're believed these [TS]

  things and if you don't then don't don't [TS]

  take on the burden of thinking that [TS]

  you're you're being reprimanded for [TS]

  something that you don't believe the [TS]

  good news though is that there are some [TS]

  universal truths of the world in [TS]

  speaking of sports there are universal [TS]

  truths like Bill Belichick is a cheater [TS]

  and Tom Brady really should not be [TS]

  playing football so anyway let's talk [TS]

  about the back of the iPhone at a monk [TS]

  morgue excuse me out of mark Wright's in [TS]

  to say my take on that rumor image with [TS]

  touch ID in the back is that it's a real [TS]

  schematic for a real prototype but it's [TS]

  only for testing there have been more [TS]

  leaked schematics with no touch ID on [TS]

  the back and I'm surprised that this has [TS]

  been debated in two episodes as an [TS]

  inevitability in my opinion this is Adam [TS]

  there is zero chance at Apple [TS]

  as a phone with such ID in the back it's [TS]

  too big of a paradigm shift in form and [TS]

  function Apple has done more work for [TS]

  far less in the past I'd bet a lot of [TS]

  money it's under the screen at launch it [TS]

  really feels like a deal breaking [TS]

  feature they would wait for so I think [TS]

  to be clear none of us were saying that [TS]

  was inevitability merely that this was a [TS]

  supposedly thing and that we could all [TS]

  conceive of Apple releasing such a thing [TS]

  now obviously it would be not the ideal [TS]

  and obviously you know plan a is the [TS]

  thing under the screen but we were [TS]

  discussing it was like what if they did [TS]

  what if they couldn't get onto the [TS]

  screen would they put it on the back [TS]

  like obviously Apple doesn't want to [TS]

  they want to do that thing on the screen [TS]

  it's totally cool right but I you know [TS]

  as I said when we first started talking [TS]

  about this I believe it is a thing that [TS]

  Apple would do because if the choice is [TS]

  between doing that and not having a new [TS]

  phone form factor at all they would [TS]

  totally do that but I also totally buy [TS]

  this you know but this is not a [TS]

  slam-dunk this is just a random drawing [TS]

  that could be totally fake and as I said [TS]

  we'll find out when the real phone is [TS]

  released and we look at the millimeter [TS]

  sizing and if I got it down to three [TS]

  decimal points chances are that it was [TS]

  at the very least a real leak or [TS]

  something manufactured based on the [TS]

  knowledge of what the phone would be [TS]

  like but yeah could be a prototype it [TS]

  could be just a testing thing it's hard [TS]

  to think of it being a prototype like [TS]

  that because it would take a lot of [TS]

  stuff to move around the touch ID to the [TS]

  back even just for testing because [TS]

  there's a bunch of other crap there on [TS]

  the phone but anyway for my part I'm not [TS]

  tied to any one of these particular [TS]

  rumors and obviously the the plan a in [TS]

  terms of rumors and in terms of what [TS]

  what Apple would want to do is a thing [TS]

  in the screen and so that's what I'm [TS]

  certainly hoping for but if it doesn't [TS]

  arrive and the thing is on the back we [TS]

  won't all be flipping out because I feel [TS]

  like we will be acclimated to that idea [TS]

  through these leaks all right let's talk [TS]

  about dirty fabric on laptops sure let's [TS]

  this this is this is a little bit of an [TS]

  odd more than a little bit of an odd [TS]

  thing so to set some context the surface [TS]

  laptop has Alcantara is that how you [TS]

  pronounce it I just avoid it just just [TS]

  avoid it like we avoid all the words we [TS]

  can't pronounce just avoid it and so it [TS]

  has some sort of fabric e leathery [TS]

  something rather on it and that is to my [TS]

  understand [TS]

  ending including where your wrists sit [TS]

  and that seems to me to be a really poor [TS]

  choice for any human being of any kind [TS]

  because I remember having a poly book hi [TS]

  Steven Hackett which is to say a white [TS]

  polycarbonate MacBook and I had to take [TS]

  a mr. Clean Magic Eraser to that thing [TS]

  like once every couple weeks um or deal [TS]

  with all of my wrist gunk and sweat and [TS]

  whatever and oils turning that thing [TS]

  Brown and it was gross and that's [TS]

  plastic [TS]

  imagine fabric and so there's a link to [TS]

  what does this be a boy genius report or [TS]

  something like that I don't remember BGR [TS]

  stands but it's trans booger Oh fair [TS]

  enough [TS]

  so uh we have a link to something and [TS]

  they show an example of a surface with [TS]

  or it appears to be a surface keyboard [TS]

  with some really gross crystals all over [TS]

  it because clearly it's been used a lot [TS]

  and that just strikes me as a poor [TS]

  choice but I don't know maybe I'm [TS]

  missing something what do you guys think [TS]

  when we talked about the fabric on the [TS]

  surface laptops last show I was [TS]

  concerned about the edges fraying and [TS]

  like the difficulty of sort of mating [TS]

  that material but it more broadly as [TS]

  this dirty fabric issue brings up a [TS]

  laptop is something that gets a lot of [TS]

  contact does even though you're not [TS]

  supposed to rest your wrist when you're [TS]

  typing people do and you know people's [TS]

  hands and wrists are going to be in [TS]

  contact with this thing very very [TS]

  frequently during use and for anything [TS]

  like that it's a good idea to make it [TS]

  out of a material that is durable or [TS]

  washable or ideally both because there [TS]

  is gunk on our hands and it is going to [TS]

  come off and I go on to the thing that [TS]

  we're touching and there needs to be [TS]

  some plan for that so on the iPhone [TS]

  screens a they're made of glass which is [TS]

  very you know hard material easy clean [TS]

  and B they have that coating that tries [TS]

  to repel oil so that when you do try to [TS]

  wipe all your gunk off it will come off [TS]

  easily and that's a good plan for the [TS]

  front of cell phone that you're going to [TS]

  be touching all the time [TS]

  similarly for the track pads on Macs I [TS]

  think we all remember the original track [TS]

  pads before they were glass there were [TS]

  you know various kinds of plastic and [TS]

  over time the track pads would get kind [TS]

  of shiny and slippery and warned down [TS]

  and discolored [TS]

  on the particular parts that you that [TS]

  you touch them moving to the glass [TS]

  trackpad really help solve that problem [TS]

  to keep it sort of uniformly colored and [TS]

  textured easy to clean because it is a [TS]

  part that you're touching all the time [TS]

  same thing with key caps making them out [TS]

  of hard plastic figuring out how to make [TS]

  key caps so that the letters and numbers [TS]

  don't come off I'm sure we have all met [TS]

  somebody who is some strain of X person [TS]

  which means that they secrete oils from [TS]

  their bodies that where the letters off [TS]

  of key caps right some people just have [TS]

  I don't know it's if it's acidic or [TS]

  otherwise solvent-based secretions from [TS]

  their fingertips that will defeat almost [TS]

  any keyboard and leave their key caps [TS]

  perfectly smooth and featureless but [TS]

  it's a challenge to wait people have [TS]

  acid fingers that's awesome I don't know [TS]

  if it's actually acid all I know is that [TS]

  some you know if you look at some [TS]

  people's keyboards they will have the [TS]

  exact same keyboard as you and all the [TS]

  letters will be gone from like the home [TS]

  row or like the e key and the return [TS]

  stuff and you're like look I'm using the [TS]

  same keyboard to you for the same period [TS]

  of time there's always some difference [TS]

  in our body chemistry that is causing [TS]

  this tab which is fine like whatever but [TS]

  the job of making keyboard is to make it [TS]

  easy to clean and make the little you [TS]

  know letters resist wearing off for a [TS]

  laptop to cover it in fabric fabric [TS]

  falls down and almost all these [TS]

  categories it is not easy to clean [TS]

  because anything that gets in there goes [TS]

  down into the weave or whatever and to [TS]

  really watch fabric you put it in the [TS]

  washing machine if you're lucky that [TS]

  does a good job but you're not putting [TS]

  your laptop in the washing machine so [TS]

  you've got a problem already [TS]

  to wash fabric you need moisture you [TS]

  like you need like liquid which unless [TS]

  you're Casey that's not going anywhere [TS]

  near your laptop yet and you know it [TS]

  still needs to pass through it like it [TS]

  wasn't like I'm just going to go on the [TS]

  surface and you want to make it so that [TS]

  whatever does get on it comes off easily [TS]

  you know and the the surface stays the [TS]

  same if you have it in from year-to-year [TS]

  and the fabric fabric wears down in [TS]

  phrase and can get thin and you know rub [TS]

  through in spots and so on and so forth [TS]

  so it is not a great solution for [TS]

  anything that you're going to handle [TS]

  that much I mean even even clothes wear [TS]

  out because they're made of cloth we put [TS]

  on our body eventually you get two holes [TS]

  in the knees and holes in the pockets [TS]

  and you know they just fray and like so [TS]

  it is definitely a material that you [TS]

  can't treat the same way you [TS]

  retreat even even Casey's plastic Abba [TS]

  and one of the problems with it with the [TS]

  plastic iBooks was they were white and [TS]

  they had some discoloration issues that [TS]

  may not have been noticeable if they [TS]

  were like a boring gray or if you know [TS]

  if they could if the plastic could be [TS]

  formulated differently if it was a [TS]

  different color but they were like very [TS]

  white and translucent and that was a [TS]

  problem I think they probably could be [TS]

  cleaned pretty easily I don't know if [TS]

  they were porous or what but an even for [TS]

  the very what the black book also had [TS]

  similar problems with the texture the [TS]

  surface texture going eventually Apple [TS]

  settled on materials that are pretty [TS]

  darn resilient the aluminum and the [TS]

  finish they put on the aluminum it's not [TS]

  super glossy you know it's like it's [TS]

  it's a finish that will stay looking the [TS]

  same for pretty much the life of the [TS]

  thing and combined with the glass pack [TS]

  trackpad and good key caps in the glass [TS]

  screens you can have a Apple laptop that [TS]

  looks more or less the same plus or [TS]

  minus dents and maybe scratches but in [TS]

  terms of color discoloration and finish [TS]

  many many years later one of these [TS]

  fabric-covered things I think no matter [TS]

  how careful you are depending on your [TS]

  personal body chemistry and amount of [TS]

  crap on your hands not literally but [TS]

  maybe literally like it's going to be [TS]

  very difficult very very difficult to [TS]

  keep this thing looking like new with [TS]

  unwashable fabric coating the surface [TS]

  where your hands are going to be so [TS]

  perhaps not a wise choice is a [TS]

  differentiator it is a style difference [TS]

  as I mentioned last show I think it's a [TS]

  style difference that doesn't go far [TS]

  enough because it essentially looks like [TS]

  an Apple laptop and someone put put a [TS]

  bunch of felt on top of which I think [TS]

  it's not a good look and B I think is [TS]

  apes Apple's design cues still too [TS]

  strongly despite the fabric anyway be [TS]

  careful out there with your fabric [TS]

  covered laptops one thing I will also [TS]

  point out I was thinking about this [TS]

  earlier today and as Casey's talking [TS]

  about the plastic MacBook it kind of [TS]

  reminded me of this that you know it [TS]

  wasn't that long ago that most of [TS]

  Apple's lower end or consumer grade [TS]

  products were plastic and that you had [TS]

  to pay it like pay more to get the [TS]

  premium Pro ones that were metal and for [TS]

  all the complaining I do about some of [TS]

  Apple's product decisions or apathy or [TS]

  various things there you know nearby [TS]

  there [TS]

  the move to pretty much everything being [TS]

  made of premium materials is appreciated [TS]

  that is something that not every brand [TS]

  does in fact no other brand does it as [TS]

  far as I know in computing every laptop [TS]

  like every every Mac that Apple sells is [TS]

  now made of metal every phone now like [TS]

  is made of you know decent metal and has [TS]

  a decent g├╝strow design like there are [TS]

  no more like cheap plastic options that [TS]

  unless I'm forgetting something big but [TS]

  as far as as far as hell there aren't [TS]

  any everything now is made of the nice [TS]

  materials that you know for the most [TS]

  part that age well and things like that [TS]

  so Apple TVs plastic right oh yeah but [TS]

  you don't touch that or move it anyway [TS]

  is it's nice-looking plastic and you [TS]

  totally don't touch it yeah same deal [TS]

  with time capsule thanks tip story I [TS]

  forgot the time capsule everybody forgot [TS]

  about the time capsule yeah Apple [TS]

  forever the time capsule but they don't [TS]

  sell it they're out of the router [TS]

  business I think they still are for sale [TS]

  I think they just weren't going to make [TS]

  more of them really yeah anyway it [TS]

  doesn't matter anyway so yeah just nice [TS]

  little note that it's nice that now [TS]

  everything is made of good materials [TS]

  some of the camera mention the iPhone 5c [TS]

  which is my immediate thought with [TS]

  plastic I think the iPhone 5c is it [TS]

  shows that plastic can look and feel [TS]

  premium because I think the 5c was great [TS]

  design a great external designer phone [TS]

  every time I see them in public [TS]

  they look like they're brand new like [TS]

  you know it's just very hard durable [TS]

  shiny probably really easy to clean [TS]

  plastic that doesn't get dirty right so [TS]

  it can be done and you know you [TS]

  mentioned the Apple TV it's a similar [TS]

  type of thing that even people were [TS]

  handling that I think would be very [TS]

  resistant because if we just make it out [TS]

  of like plastic is not just one material [TS]

  it's a million different formulations [TS]

  and Apple sort of learned the hard way [TS]

  which formulations do and don't work [TS]

  from the soft plastic on the screen of [TS]

  the first iPod Nano you know to the [TS]

  discoloring mac books and other [TS]

  materials they tried like the titanium [TS]

  power book that had problems with the [TS]

  paint staying on like they eventually [TS]

  set it on a solution that works well and [TS]

  they've spread it throughout their line [TS]

  which is a good idea but I'm not going [TS]

  to count out plastic entirely but I [TS]

  think I'm gonna kind of can out fabric [TS]

  entirely that's something that you want [TS]

  to put the quote-unquote wrist rest area [TS]

  of a lap [TS]

  as I like no matter how you know you go [TS]

  to the furniture store and they say [TS]

  we've got the magic coating that repels [TS]

  water and you can throw like jell-o [TS]

  pudding on this couch and nothing will [TS]

  happen and that's true until that [TS]

  coating wears away and then you know [TS]

  that then you know it's anything that [TS]

  you're going to rub something up against [TS]

  it's just it's not going to last [TS]

  so I suppose they could work on was that [TS]

  Simon izing or whatever all sorts of [TS]

  SuperDuper waterproofing coating for [TS]

  fabrics but a that they make the fabric [TS]

  feel more like plastic at that point and [TS]

  be even those wear off eventually can I [TS]

  pay the extra fifty cents at the car [TS]

  wash to get it resized is that about I [TS]

  don't know what that I'm just pulling [TS]

  that board out of my head know where [TS]

  they came I believe that's wax at the [TS]

  car wash but I'm not positive yes I go [TS]

  through drive-thru car washes you know [TS]

  don't add me bro or whatever I can't [TS]

  believe you do that I wouldn't do that [TS]

  I'm sure Casey wouldn't I I decided I [TS]

  decided a few years ago after first [TS]

  doing it for cars that I didn't know [TS]

  better or didn't care and then I started [TS]

  getting nicer cars and people like you [TS]

  guys scared me into not going through [TS]

  automatic car washes and I didn't want [TS]

  to get my clear coat all swirly or [TS]

  whatever and the result of that was I [TS]

  had really nice cars that were always [TS]

  incredibly embarrassingly dirty if you [TS]

  live in upstate New York that's what [TS]

  you're supposed to have so instead I [TS]

  decided starting with with my current [TS]

  car I decided I'm not going to care [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  I'm just going to go through the car [TS]

  wash when I feel like it and my car has [TS]

  been way cleaner as a result and I don't [TS]

  care it's just the lease what do you [TS]

  care all the scratches that are getting [TS]

  from little little bits of grit that are [TS]

  on those flabby things scratching your [TS]

  car over the place it's not yours and [TS]

  honestly I don't really notice like I I [TS]

  know I know what to look for it is a [TS]

  little bit different now that my car is [TS]

  red it like it's way more notice one [TS]

  black on the red it's a lot less [TS]

  noticeable or it's noticeable I've fewer [TS]

  angles I guess so I don't care and most [TS]

  of the time from almost every angle my [TS]

  car looks better now that I'm going [TS]

  through car washes whenever I feel like [TS]

  it rather than when I would go like five [TS]

  months of that getting a car wash [TS]

  because I had to wait until I could go [TS]

  to the place it took an hour or when [TS]

  Casey visited pretty much oh to be [TS]

  blissfully ignorant again and you know [TS]

  it turns out maybe the black cars [TS]

  weren't so [TS]

  good idea moving on oh man am Archaea [TS]

  Banerjee and I'm sorry if I pronounced [TS]

  that wrong asks do you folks think that [TS]

  the popularity of touch input on Windows [TS]

  laptops could just be attributed to the [TS]

  terrible trackpads that given a good [TS]

  trackpad having a fridge toaster OS in a [TS]

  laptop form factors unnecessary I don't [TS]

  it's very hard for me to say because [TS]

  I've never had a touchscreen laptop and [TS]

  I've only ever used them a couple times [TS]

  and I found them very frustrating [TS]

  because I wasn't used to being able to [TS]

  touch the screen and maybe I grazed it [TS]

  accidentally and all of a sudden my [TS]

  cursor moved or maybe I was stabbing at [TS]

  it like a monster who knows but anyway [TS]

  because I've never really understood [TS]

  understood the appeal of it I don't [TS]

  think that it's a trackpad problem [TS]

  although I do know that Windows [TS]

  computers have just low fly terrible [TS]

  trackpads I think that people just [TS]

  genuinely do like having touchscreen [TS]

  laptops like anyone who I've ever spoken [TS]

  to who has a touchscreen Windows laptop [TS]

  pretty much every single one of them [TS]

  enjoys it and likes having the option of [TS]

  stabbing at the screen I don't get that [TS]

  it seems kind of kooky to me but that's [TS]

  pretty universally my anecdotal [TS]

  experience what do you guys think I mean [TS]

  we've all been around computers for a [TS]

  long time now we know that there are [TS]

  screen textures and non screen textures [TS]

  so maybe the screen texture is finally [TS]

  just one yeah close they don't touch my [TS]

  screen I know I agree with Daisy that [TS]

  yes they have travel track pads but this [TS]

  is a separate issue people like to touch [TS]

  the screen and I don't think they do it [TS]

  super duper often they just like the [TS]

  option of being able to do it because I [TS]

  mean just think of the generation it's [TS]

  going to grow up with the expectation [TS]

  that every screen is touchable to have [TS]

  one that's not just seems broken it [TS]

  doesn't mean that you're going to spend [TS]

  the vast majority of your time on your [TS]

  your traditionally laptop shaped piece [TS]

  of hardware stabbing at the screen I [TS]

  mean you're going to be typing on the [TS]

  keyboard you're going to be using the [TS]

  trackpad and every once in a while [TS]

  you're going to stab at the screen it's [TS]

  just all the piece and I think it mostly [TS]

  comes down to software like if the touch [TS]

  targets are frustratingly small as I [TS]

  think it would be if you just slap the [TS]

  touchscreen on a Mac that won't be a [TS]

  good experience but if you're using [TS]

  something like a modern version of [TS]

  Windows where a lot of the applications [TS]

  and parts of the OS make an effort to [TS]

  have touchable targets whatever it's I [TS]

  think it's fine and I don't think it has [TS]

  to do with the bed [TS]

  trackpads because honestly like we we [TS]

  track pet connoisseurs Marco in [TS]

  particular with his hatred of the forest [TS]

  trust trackpad maybe picky about these [TS]

  things [TS]

  regular people cannot distinguish [TS]

  between the worst windows trackpad and [TS]

  the best Apple one this because I mean I [TS]

  think I think most people have trackpad [TS]

  skills that are more in line with mine [TS]

  I'm not a tactical acquit I am not [TS]

  particularly graceful with the trackpad [TS]

  I think I'm closer to the average and [TS]

  being a closer to the average trackpad [TS]

  person I know how clumsy it feels and [TS]

  that is the overwhelming factor in [TS]

  trackpad use not the quality of the [TS]

  trackpad like or the mouse tracking or [TS]

  the size of the trackpad or how [TS]

  sensitive it is or whatever no matter [TS]

  how good the trackpad is I feel clumsy [TS]

  so I think that's how most people feel [TS]

  that's why if you were trying to put the [TS]

  to track bits maybe they would notice [TS]

  the Apple one is bigger but other than [TS]

  that they're like whatever they're both [TS]

  trackpad so no that's not the reason [TS]

  that touchscreens uh I think that's a [TS]

  little bit aggressive I think that [TS]

  certainly not everyone notices how far [TS]

  improved the Apple trackpads are but I [TS]

  think a lot of quote-unquote normal [TS]

  people do notice I certainly they notice [TS]

  the size just like you said but I think [TS]

  it's noticed more often than most [TS]

  offered people that are not like super [TS]

  nerds say to me oh you know I got this [TS]

  Mac and man that trackpads much better [TS]

  it doesn't happen a lot to your point [TS]

  but it does happen for sure it's kind of [TS]

  one of those things where if they [TS]

  haven't tried the better one they're not [TS]

  sitting there using their Windows laptop [TS]

  and you come from man how can you use [TS]

  that track Reggie like yeah it's fine [TS]

  now if you were to give them an Apple [TS]

  laptop per weekend they had to go back [TS]

  maybe they could tell the difference but [TS]

  it's I don't I don't hear it as a pain [TS]

  point I don't hear it is a reason people [TS]

  don't like their computers or if I go to [TS]

  have to use someone's Windows computer [TS]

  at work and I say to the person I don't [TS]

  know how you work on this trackpad [TS]

  they'll be like what what's wrong with [TS]

  it it's fine because they don't have [TS]

  anything to compare it to and it is is [TS]

  the same awkward little thing that [TS]

  they're just used to using or they just [TS]

  use the keyboard all the time don't [TS]

  forget the culture of being a Windows [TS]

  user which is like everything kind of [TS]

  doesn't work and so you just like that's [TS]

  what you expect as normal like you don't [TS]

  even realize how much better things can [TS]

  be when things work and our thoughtfully [TS]

  designed because on Windows you're just [TS]

  constantly like lying on a bed of nails [TS]

  and you don't even notice it after a [TS]

  while like that sometimes I go to [TS]

  something use someone's Windows laptop [TS]

  of work and they have like like four [TS]

  buttons like two above and two below the [TS]

  trackpad or some other weird arrangement [TS]

  or there's basically redundant left and [TS]

  right mouse buttons on the surface of [TS]

  the laptop and I'll try to do it and [TS]

  like nothing will happen like oh yeah [TS]

  that set of buttons doesn't work use [TS]

  these ones it continued to tolerate and [TS]

  use this thing you consider it not [TS]

  broken when some of the buttons and some [TS]

  of the major buttons on the front of it [TS]

  don't work you just get around you just [TS]

  have to use that button well no no what [TS]

  probably is happening there is it [TS]

  probably has both an inferior trackpad [TS]

  pointing device and the unequivocally [TS]

  superior TrackPoint style pointing [TS]

  device and the buttons above the [TS]

  trackpad are for the track point [TS]

  yeah banal and then oftentimes that'll [TS]

  get turned off because people are wrong [TS]

  and they use the trackpad instead before [TS]

  the entire world well actually is me [TS]

  remember that I'm basing this opinion on [TS]

  a pre gesture time now the gestures are [TS]

  a thing then trackpads honestly are the [TS]

  better approach but before gestures were [TS]

  a thing I tell you all you people who [TS]

  laugh at that little nubbin Mouse you're [TS]

  wrong it was way better anyway Corey [TS]

  Floyd wrote Syd wrote in to say that [TS]

  they work at Wikimedia and heard our [TS]

  latest show discussing like a Tribune [TS]

  project and they wanted to kind of not [TS]

  necessarily correct but bring up a few [TS]

  things [TS]

  whicka Tribune isn't affiliated with [TS]

  Wikipedia or Wikimedia in any way which [TS]

  has been causing some confusion in the [TS]

  media this is Corey still I think this [TS]

  mostly came across in your episode but I [TS]

  also wanted to include a few other [TS]

  interesting specifics below what [TS]

  contribute is based on WordPress not [TS]

  media weak wiki like Wikipedia and its [TS]

  sister projects additionally it is not [TS]

  actually developed or otherwise [TS]

  maintained by existing Wikimedia or [TS]

  Wikipedia community and finally [TS]

  Wikimedia also has an existing albeit [TS]

  unsuccessful project called wiki News [TS]

  which is in some ways a competitor to [TS]

  wiki Tribune in the first place and [TS]

  that's it wiki news org will put all [TS]

  these links in the show notes so I've [TS]

  got Jimmy Wales that is the connecting [TS]

  thread but don't be confused about the [TS]

  fact that this is a Wikipedia spin-off [TS]

  because it's not we are sponsored this [TS]

  week by Warby Parker with prescription [TS]

  eyeglasses starting at just [TS]

  $95 including prescription lenses to [TS]

  learn more visit Warby Parker comm / ATP [TS]

  Warby Parker makes buying glasses online [TS]

  easy and risk-free here's how they do it [TS]

  they have a home Tryon program and this [TS]

  is totally free what you do is you pick [TS]

  out up to five pairs of glasses they [TS]

  ship them to you you can try them on and [TS]

  get feedback or look at yourself in the [TS]

  mirror to post selfies or whatever you [TS]

  want for five days and there's no [TS]

  obligation to buy because they ship it [TS]

  to you for free and then they give you a [TS]

  prepaid return shipping label so of [TS]

  course also free you can see for [TS]

  yourself once again Warby Parker comm / [TS]

  ATP their glasses start at just 95 [TS]

  dollars including prescription lenses [TS]

  and it's with anti glare and anti [TS]

  scratch code these are nice glasses they [TS]

  come on a wonderful case with a nice [TS]

  cleaning cloth my wife has it has a few [TS]

  pairs of these and they really are [TS]

  fantastic we are big fans of every [TS]

  Parker here and they look good too and [TS]

  also for every pair you buy Warby Parker [TS]

  distributes a pair of glasses to someone [TS]

  in need through various vision charities [TS]

  around the world so check out the home [TS]

  Tryon kit to see for yourself how great [TS]

  Warby Parker's glasses are you will be [TS]

  surprised how easy it is [TS]

  they various previewing tools even on [TS]

  lines you can get an idea of what I look [TS]

  like on you before you even try it on [TS]

  there app can also help you out they [TS]

  have an app in the App Store with a home [TS]

  Tron companion feature you can take [TS]

  pictures of you wearing the frames you [TS]

  stitch into a video you can share it [TS]

  with friends to help pick a winner and [TS]

  all this again for just $95 starting a [TS]

  pair starting for a pair glasses [TS]

  including prescription lenses glasses [TS]

  should not cost as much as an iPhone [TS]

  they should be affordable so make sure [TS]

  that you should be able to have multiple [TS]

  pairs if you want to more like fashion [TS]

  accessories so check it out today [TS]

  Warby Parker comm / ATP to get your free [TS]

  home try on kit try put five pairs of [TS]

  glasses for free risk-free no obligation [TS]

  to buy check it out today will be Parker [TS]

  com / ATP thank you very much - Warby [TS]

  Parker for sponsoring our show so [TS]

  another Amazon cylinder that isn't a [TS]

  cylinder thing came out and I really [TS]

  don't care so to somebody who actually [TS]

  gives a crap want to talk about this [TS]

  marker and I mean this is more of a [TS]

  three-dimensional trapezoid fair enough [TS]

  yeah good point this is a marker [TS]

  that you got we've got a quote from [TS]

  someone named Marco who wrote in to the [TS]

  show to say I'd upgrade our kitchen echo [TS]

  to this in a heartbeat he says looking [TS]

  at a vineyard picture of the actual echo [TS]

  show yeah [TS]

  so Marco have you upgraded your kitchen [TS]

  echo to this now that your heart has [TS]

  beaten no I haven't because it isn't out [TS]

  yet but I did place a pre-order and it [TS]

  will be hereon allegedly june 28th so we [TS]

  will see when that comes basically the [TS]

  gist of it is you know the the Amazon [TS]

  echo is is quite wonderful to many [TS]

  people myself included and my family has [TS]

  really gotten into it we use it all the [TS]

  time and it's it lives in our kitchen [TS]

  and it is wonderful for playing music [TS]

  around the house for setting timers [TS]

  especially while cooking TIF uses it all [TS]

  the time for things like checking the [TS]

  weather in the morning when running [TS]

  around getting Adam ready for school so [TS]

  it there are a number of use cases [TS]

  during the day where it would be nice to [TS]

  have a screen for instance the timers [TS]

  that I just mentioned it would be nice [TS]

  to see how much time is left to see them [TS]

  counting down if there ever becomes a [TS]

  way to set multiple named timers right [TS]

  now you can set multiple timers but you [TS]

  can't name them I'm pretty sure the [TS]

  Google home you can name them but the [TS]

  echo does not support that at the moment [TS]

  but again like when you have multiple [TS]

  timers going be nice to see them [TS]

  visually and maybe they have little [TS]

  touch buttons to pause or cancel them [TS]

  individually because right now it's kind [TS]

  of you kind of can't do it very well but [TS]

  via voice if you have multiple ones [TS]

  going when TIFF checks the weather in [TS]

  the morning first of all though these [TS]

  pictures show it kind of always have a [TS]

  like this home screen that has the clock [TS]

  and the current weather conditions on [TS]

  the screen all the time so that would be [TS]

  nice to do just not even have to ask at [TS]

  certain things if you're walking by you [TS]

  can glance at it and see the weather so [TS]

  there's all sorts of wonderful things [TS]

  like that where like many of the uses [TS]

  that we currently use the echo for would [TS]

  be nicer sometimes or all the time with [TS]

  a screen now there is a fair argument to [TS]

  be made why don't you just put an iPad [TS]

  like right there and just use an iPad [TS]

  all the time and enable the hey dingus [TS]

  feature on it and and just use that and [TS]

  that is a fair argument I have an iPad [TS]

  that sits right next to it that I you [TS]

  that I take around the first floor and [TS]

  please podcast [TS]

  while we do things but we really enjoy [TS]

  the Amazon echo ecosystem we enjoy the [TS]

  way the product works it works very well [TS]

  for us to have another echo come out [TS]

  that has a screen [TS]

  I am willing to give Amazon the benefit [TS]

  the doubt on this you know when the [TS]

  first came out we all made fun of it [TS]

  because they released this horrible [TS]

  video and it seemed so weird and creepy [TS]

  not to not the difference we mentioned [TS]

  last week for from the new echo look the [TS]

  weird like dressing-room camera thing [TS]

  but you know I I will give them the [TS]

  benefit the DAP because as weird as the [TS]

  first echo seemed because they were very [TS]

  bad at selling it or at promoting it and [TS]

  giving us an idea of what it would be [TS]

  like it turned out to be pretty great [TS]

  for a lot of people myself included and [TS]

  my family included also to point out - [TS]

  so there have been increasing rumors and [TS]

  increasing rumblings that Apple is [TS]

  probably going to release something [TS]

  similar to this rumors are that it might [TS]

  even come as soon as like next month at [TS]

  WTC keep in mind that if Apple does [TS]

  something like this which would be like [TS]

  a premium speaker with some kind of [TS]

  screen and some kind of built-in you [TS]

  know Siri thing how much is that going [TS]

  to cost because this Amazon thing is 230 [TS]

  bucks and if you might see with them you [TS]

  get $100 off that's what I do backwards [TS]

  I figure so I will have a say you for [TS]

  the second one maybe four maybe we'll [TS]

  give it to you know our parents or [TS]

  whatever else there is no way that Apple [TS]

  is going to release a standalone speaker [TS]

  with a screen that is very iPad like [TS]

  possibly for $200 like that's not going [TS]

  to happen so this will be interesting to [TS]

  see like you know how Apple plays in [TS]

  this market and also again like you know [TS]

  it's going back to previous discussions [TS]

  about it like a lot of what makes the [TS]

  echo so good are things that Apple's not [TS]

  store eclis been so great at things like [TS]

  having a really easy to use open [TS]

  ecosystem to integrate really well with [TS]

  it things like having a really reliable [TS]

  voice service that is fast that is very [TS]

  consistent that works the same way every [TS]

  single time and here's you very very [TS]

  well every single time these are things [TS]

  that apples so far has struggled with so [TS]

  we'll see how that goes but I am [TS]

  optimistic about this this Amazon thing [TS]

  and to have this only be like 50 bucks [TS]

  more than the one without the screen [TS]

  is pretty impressive and yeah so I'm [TS]

  looking forward to when it arrives in [TS]

  June and look it might be terrible we [TS]

  don't know yet nobody has a review of it [TS]

  no one no one outside of Amazon as far [TS]

  as I know has gotten a chance to use one [TS]

  yet but again I think Amazon's track [TS]

  record in this particular area has [TS]

  actually been proven to be pretty good [TS]

  so we'll see what happens [TS]

  you mentioned before you thought it was [TS]

  a fair argument that buncher's have an [TS]

  iPad in your kitchen instead of this I [TS]

  don't think that's a particularly good [TS]

  argument because the iPad even setting [TS]

  aside software issues in terms of how [TS]

  well Siri understands it can respond to [TS]

  what you can do and how open the [TS]

  ecosystem is for adding you know various [TS]

  skills and actions that connect other [TS]

  devices in your house even just setting [TS]

  that aside just in terms of the hardware [TS]

  an iPad can't compete with this type of [TS]

  device in two of the three areas that [TS]

  are most important one speakers iPad the [TS]

  new iPads have very good speakers but [TS]

  this device is dedicating way more room [TS]

  for speakers so in theory again we [TS]

  haven't seen one of these in theory you [TS]

  can put way way way better speakers in [TS]

  this thing because it's just so much [TS]

  more room for quote unquote real [TS]

  speakers instead of very clever little [TS]

  cavities in your skinny little thing and [TS]

  playing audio to fill the whole kitchen [TS]

  or whatever is an important function of [TS]

  these types of devices and the second [TS]

  one is microphones the iPad has I think [TS]

  it has multiplex probably for noise [TS]

  cancellation but I think that's to the [TS]

  strengths of the echo is whatever weird [TS]

  five microphone beamforming BS it does [TS]

  to be able to you're fast how many eight [TS]

  eight I know anyway there's way more [TS]

  room for more microphones in this type [TS]

  of thing and again we don't know how [TS]

  many microphones this thing has but [TS]

  based on the the the echos that they [TS]

  have put out this is one of the most [TS]

  important function of this thing is to [TS]

  be able to hear you no matter where you [TS]

  are and the iPad the current iPads just [TS]

  don't dedicate that much hardware for [TS]

  that the third area where I think it [TS]

  feel like it can match it is in the [TS]

  camera because you didn't mention this [TS]

  but this doesn't just have a screen it [TS]

  has a camera and they're selling the [TS]

  kind of video conferencing thing who [TS]

  knows how that will go that's a whole [TS]

  sort of network effect the ecosystem [TS]

  type thing we may just still end up end [TS]

  up facetiming each other on our phones [TS]

  I do see why they [TS]

  added this and I think people will use [TS]

  it just not me yeah you get one to [TS]

  Grandma who doesn't who doesn't have an [TS]

  iPhone doesn't know how iPhones work and [TS]

  she can just come in front of this [TS]

  especially the drop end feature like [TS]

  where you don't actually where the [TS]

  certain time where your thing is open to [TS]

  just suddenly seeing you seeing these [TS]

  people on the screen you know like if [TS]

  you set this up with with relatives who [TS]

  are not tech savvy to just to be able to [TS]

  do video conferencing where you could [TS]

  you could never get them to use an iPad [TS]

  even that was too much for them if you [TS]

  just plot this down in their counter [TS]

  like I think that could be effective for [TS]

  that particular purpose yeah but for [TS]

  regular people I don't know but the [TS]

  camera again getting back to the the [TS]

  work all the look or the AV echo look [TS]

  over what the hell's it call that go [TS]

  scream was to call ago go look at go [TS]

  show echo show that's because every one [TS]

  things to podcast but now the other one [TS]

  talking about the look the fashion feel [TS]

  the worst names okay yeah that's that's [TS]

  called the look yeah so are saying last [TS]

  week that this this device category of [TS]

  computing devices in your home that have [TS]

  cameras that can see you has legs and [TS]

  here we have within the next week [TS]

  another device that grant from the same [TS]

  company that puts a camera in your house [TS]

  they could see you and does something [TS]

  with it [TS]

  both of them look like they have tiny [TS]

  little you know tablet type cameras so I [TS]

  think that's a wash in terms of the iPad [TS]

  competing with this but I would be [TS]

  looking for these type of devices the [TS]

  look and the show and other things like [TS]

  this to get increasingly sophisticated [TS]

  cameras they can follow you that made [TS]

  multiple cameras to synthesize an image [TS]

  with you know depth sensors and stuff [TS]

  like that because that's where these [TS]

  things are going to have more sort of [TS]

  awareness of what's going on they can [TS]

  project sound and video to you and they [TS]

  can be aware of where you are they can [TS]

  hear you roam at ur where you are and [TS]

  they could see you no matter where you [TS]

  are as far as I can tell from this one [TS]

  no it's easy when you're in front of it [TS]

  and that leads me to that all the things [TS]

  I don't like about this particular [TS]

  hardware product like if it is a fixed [TS]

  camera that's kind of crappy you hope [TS]

  it'll be smarter but again cost you know [TS]

  whatever this is the first original [TS]

  weight this thing is homely it's not [TS]

  it's not an attractive device yeah I [TS]

  will agree with you on that I mean but [TS]

  to be to be fair like the echo cylinder [TS]

  is also not very attractive I think [TS]

  that's pretty sleek and I think the [TS]

  cylinder has a thing going for it would [TS]

  be unobtrusive you could put it off the [TS]

  side although I do there's another [TS]

  reason why I like the [TS]

  the Google home now that I think about [TS]

  it because I was thinking about you know [TS]

  if we got an echo where would I put it [TS]

  the home is smaller than the echo and it [TS]

  is less obtrusive in the place where I [TS]

  have it but this you can't make this [TS]

  unobtrusive because it has to be a place [TS]

  where you can see the screen and it's [TS]

  it's not particularly attractive it [TS]

  black or white it looks kind of like a [TS]

  sort of retro 70s piece of hardware it's [TS]

  very it's very strange it just certainly [TS]

  doesn't look elegant it doesn't look [TS]

  like an Apple device anyway and it [TS]

  doesn't you know it has kind of sort of [TS]

  it's kind of like a Brutalism kind of [TS]

  like a rugged you know maybe soviet-era [TS]

  hardware yeah I guess it has has a [TS]

  certain appeal but and then finally this [TS]

  this thing is I can't really tell from [TS]

  the pictures but it's slanted back in [TS]

  all the pictures I see it's tilted [TS]

  backwards like the shape dictates the [TS]

  tilt it doesn't seem to have an [TS]

  adjustable tilt and for something that [TS]

  you're going to be looking at that's [TS]

  going to be looking back at you that [TS]

  seems just organically and practically [TS]

  speaking very limiting because the echo [TS]

  you can put literally anywhere that it [TS]

  can hear you like high low left-right [TS]

  just whatever it's fine this thing you [TS]

  need sight lines and you need to be able [TS]

  to see it and it needs to be able to see [TS]

  you and depending on how tall you are or [TS]

  how tall most of the people are even [TS]

  just being able to see kids and adults [TS]

  like how would you get that thing in a [TS]

  position where it can both where grandma [TS]

  can both see your you know kids that are [TS]

  half your height and you and even just [TS]

  if you're you know just living by [TS]

  yourself you have to put it on a surface [TS]

  where the camera can see you and you can [TS]

  see the screen which just like it seemed [TS]

  it seems like that it would have been [TS]

  better to design this to have a little [TS]

  bit more flexibility about angle and [TS]

  stuff again costs I understand like you [TS]

  can't have an adjustable stand or any [TS]

  kind of tilt thing that is any [TS]

  reasonable quality for this price point [TS]

  so like I'm willing to to give a lot of [TS]

  leeway there but this definitely it kind [TS]

  of reminds me of the first Kindle [TS]

  remember what a monster the first Kindle [TS]

  was oh that was that was something but a [TS]

  weird angular white thing with the weird [TS]

  terrible hardware keyboard on it it's [TS]

  like they took a lot of shots of that [TS]

  until they kind of settled down onto [TS]

  like the paperwhite which is kind of the [TS]

  epitome of the old-style Kindle and now [TS]

  they've gone by that weird things like [TS]

  thick on one edge and thin on the other [TS]

  they need to iterate on this one I'm [TS]

  sure they will although I say I'm sure [TS]

  they will but were they done to the [TS]

  Amazon echo it's still the same black [TS]

  cylinder it always was made [TS]

  just nail that one on the first try but [TS]

  I worry about the software your system [TS]

  too because once I start get into the [TS]

  realm of like video calling and stuff [TS]

  like that I think it's going to be [TS]

  difficult for them to compete with [TS]

  FaceTime this is basically what they've [TS]

  got here they've got their own little [TS]

  version of FaceTime and FaceTime for all [TS]

  of the wonkiness of like the weird [TS]

  patent thing that costumes have the [TS]

  restructure the way it's done and the [TS]

  fact that Steve Jobs impulsively said it [TS]

  was going to be opened up to the world [TS]

  and it ever was and all the things I use [TS]

  it for its intended purpose frequently [TS]

  and it works you know I mean I can [TS]

  successfully send video and audio to [TS]

  people the only limiting factor is ever [TS]

  crappy internet connections which is [TS]

  really nothing you can do about right [TS]

  because if you're trying to communicate [TS]

  with somebody was a crappy internet [TS]

  connection or you have a crappy internet [TS]

  connection it's not great but it will [TS]

  gracefully degrade to a black screen [TS]

  with just audio and also things it [TS]

  basically works and Amazon as far as I'm [TS]

  aware this is kind of their first foray [TS]

  into this I think did they do like kind [TS]

  of video support for one of the the [TS]

  color fire tablets maybe so maybe it's [TS]

  not not their very first thing yes yeah [TS]

  they had some kind of thing where it was [TS]

  it was like a screen sharing thing where [TS]

  you could wear like their support rep [TS]

  could like login to your tablet and show [TS]

  you how to do things or do things for [TS]

  you because I see them or do they see [TS]

  you I don't know I never I don't think [TS]

  I've heard anybody actually using this [TS]

  feature but they did have that kind of [TS]

  thing and again I think this is one of [TS]

  those things like Amazon you know [TS]

  similar to the to the like the the drop [TS]

  in thing was that what they call oddness [TS]

  where you can like kind of force call [TS]

  someone yeah it's the same as the Google [TS]

  like knock knock thing that we thought [TS]

  was a dangerous you know sort of thing [TS]

  thing for abuse but this is opt-in but [TS]

  but at least the way they're doing it [TS]

  yeah it's like it's update its whitelist [TS]

  only you know so and it seems like it's [TS]

  pretty well controlled but like I do [TS]

  give Amazon credit they have four years [TS]

  on their tablets and other products you [TS]

  know other like you know mainstream [TS]

  consumer products for years they have [TS]

  been adding features like that or like [TS]

  very good you know [TS]

  parental controls and like kids [TS]

  scheduling and everything else like [TS]

  features that that you really would [TS]

  expect it coming like Apple to do [TS]

  because that you know Apple so [TS]

  considerate and innovative and cares a [TS]

  lot about the customer experience and [TS]

  everything Amazon has really made a lot [TS]

  of these features over the years and and [TS]

  they can kind of get away with it [TS]

  because they're scale is so much [TS]

  like they like imagine the the staffing [TS]

  required if Apple were to do one of [TS]

  those things or they will log in to your [TS]

  computer with you and show you how to do [TS]

  things like that they would never in a [TS]

  million years be able to you know handle [TS]

  that on any kind of scale but but Amazon [TS]

  can do it because they're they're really [TS]

  at a much smaller scale for most these [TS]

  products as far as we're aware well [TS]

  that's true there's no labels in the [TS]

  y-axis they make a bunch of weird stuff [TS]

  and not all of it works but it does seem [TS]

  like III think they have they have [TS]

  earned the benefit the doubt in that [TS]

  some of their weird stuff is actually [TS]

  really good it's also weird that like I [TS]

  made a setting aside Apple which is has [TS]

  a strange history with these type of [TS]

  devices and just like being almost like [TS]

  stubbornly unwilling to enter markets [TS]

  even after it's proven they're they're [TS]

  viable just because it doesn't seem big [TS]

  enough to Apple they have different [TS]

  plans or they're pursuing other [TS]

  strategies and just in the meantime we [TS]

  get nothing and now maybe they're fun [TS]

  going to come out with one but like an [TS]

  apple that was doing the opposite of [TS]

  what it's actually doing the current [TS]

  Apple is reducing the number of things [TS]

  that it's not getting rid of the the you [TS]

  know the the routers and reducing trying [TS]

  to simplify its computer and phone lines [TS]

  and you know it's it's going the other [TS]

  direction but if it wasn't going in that [TS]

  direction it was expanding there's a lot [TS]

  of categories of devices that you feel [TS]

  like Apple could make a good one up and [TS]

  also Google both of these companies have [TS]

  the have all the pieces to be able to [TS]

  make a really good Bluetooth speaker a [TS]

  really good thing that listens to you I [TS]

  I would I would argue that I don't think [TS]

  we have seen great hardware from Google [TS]

  cool I mean Google hummus is fine we've [TS]

  seen lots of things that come kind of [TS]

  close and they always kind of fall down [TS]

  on the support they don't follow through [TS]

  or the products end up being delayed and [TS]

  not shipping or they have weird [TS]

  shortcomings or they only get an OS for [TS]

  like six months like Google I think [TS]

  Google has shown that they are really [TS]

  not set up to be a company that sells [TS]

  and supports their own hardware but they [TS]

  don't follow through but they have all [TS]

  the pieces to make it they have the [TS]

  server side component they can make [TS]

  reasonable hardware even if it's just a [TS]

  broken part chromecast shoved in a [TS]

  cylinder which is the Google home and [TS]

  the chromecast for that matter like that [TS]

  little Donnelly thing like I I agree [TS]

  with you that the follow-through isn't [TS]

  there but [TS]

  they have the pieces to make it happen [TS]

  like any company can make a Bluetooth [TS]

  speaker but once you start connecting it [TS]

  up to services not everybody has [TS]

  services google has tons of services [TS]

  Apple has enough services that you know [TS]

  you give Siri and and Google now and so [TS]

  like what's on the other end of this [TS]

  making it work right and so those simple [TS]

  categories of like wouldn't we have all [TS]

  you know loved if Apple made a good [TS]

  Bluetooth speaker and had been revising [TS]

  it over the years we would all give them [TS]

  an extra 50 bucks for the Apple one [TS]

  because it would be nice in some way if [TS]

  it was actually nice and the same thing [TS]

  for you know essentially a Bluetooth [TS]

  speaker with a screen the Siri that you [TS]

  can ask the weather that you know like [TS]

  the cheapest possible iPad shoved into a [TS]

  Bluetooth speaker thing with much better [TS]

  like Apple could have made this is what [TS]

  I'm saying Apple could make the exact [TS]

  echo show and who knows at WABC they may [TS]

  announce the thing they've made that is [TS]

  like this but better and has Marco said [TS]

  twice is expensive whatever but they [TS]

  haven't been participating in this [TS]

  market at all leaving other people to [TS]

  try all sorts of things and I supposed [TS]

  to gain loyalty and to build their [TS]

  ecosystems and someone is over to the [TS]

  point where I feel like Google so what [TS]

  happening they're like oh we should have [TS]

  a cylinder and so they do and maybe [TS]

  Google will try to come out with [TS]

  something like this too and just to see [TS]

  Apple sit on the sidelines it's it's [TS]

  fine if they are working on the next big [TS]

  thing but it may turn out that these [TS]

  little things build up the next big [TS]

  thing and if Apple's going to sit it out [TS]

  for much longer I think it's a mistake [TS]

  I'm curious to see what happens [TS]

  and I'll use me as an example if it [TS]

  let's say at WWDC they announced the the [TS]

  Apple equivalent of this tube thing I'm [TS]

  stumbling because I don't want to say [TS]

  any of the like trigger words and I have [TS]

  to have you believe them later but [TS]

  anyway it's called the Apple Alexa hey [TS]

  Siri yeah well you did this to yourself [TS]

  so anyway if Apple releases a a lady in [TS]

  a canister equivalent I'm curious to see [TS]

  what my reaction will be because sitting [TS]

  here now like again I don't doubt that [TS]

  the echo is very nice and that it serves [TS]

  a purpose for a lot of people and that [TS]

  I've no doubt Marco that you guys use it [TS]

  constantly and love it like that that's [TS]

  there's nothing wrong with that me I I [TS]

  don't feel like this is solving a [TS]

  problem that I have my life I said that [TS]

  many times before I'm curious as kind of [TS]

  a litmus test to how susceptible I am to [TS]

  whatever Apple tells me to do I'm [TS]

  curious to see what happens if Apple [TS]

  releases their own leading [TS]

  canister and what my reaction is to that [TS]

  because if I'm like well holy crap I've [TS]

  got to have one of these how could I've [TS]

  lived without it and it's really just a [TS]

  echo but Apple branded then apparently I [TS]

  really am a lemming and and it's all [TS]

  downhill from here [TS]

  in reality it would most likely be $300 [TS]

  and you would say oh I don't want to buy [TS]

  this one I'll get the next one maybe and [TS]

  then inevitably I'll buy it anyway [TS]

  yeah it's six months later you'll have [TS]

  three of them speaking of a Google Alma [TS]

  miner Google home update they added a [TS]

  thing like let's you distinguish people [TS]

  by voice and so they can ask for you [TS]

  know tell me what my day is like and it [TS]

  will tell you your calendar by directing [TS]

  guising who you are so it's basic multi [TS]

  user functionality unfortunately no one [TS]

  ever asked Google home what's on their [TS]

  calendar because it's just not a thing [TS]

  that we do and so distinguishing us by [TS]

  voice is not particularly useful I think [TS]

  the only two voices and notice that this [TS]

  thing is mine and my daughter's because [TS]

  we are like the most frequent users but [TS]

  all that said I continue to be impressed [TS]

  by I mean it's basically this Google [TS]

  search behind the scenes because I'm [TS]

  always impressed by Google search when [TS]

  you do when you type in something in [TS]

  that search box and it somehow figures [TS]

  out what you mean and gives you relevant [TS]

  results that's the magic of Google most [TS]

  recent one is we were talking about [TS]

  something of dinner table and we're [TS]

  talking about a movie and and like was [TS]

  that release then or well you know what [TS]

  year was that released we could ask the [TS]

  Google home what year was the movie bla [TS]

  bla bla released and I didn't have to [TS]

  think about how do I have to phrase this [TS]

  in a way they can understand I don't [TS]

  even remember how I phrased it I just [TS]

  asked it the same way I would ask a a [TS]

  person with encyclopedic knowledge of [TS]

  movie releases who's sitting in the [TS]

  corner of the room and the thing spoke [TS]

  out the movie bla bla was released in [TS]

  March bla bla bla bla bla that to me is [TS]

  still magic because a it's exactly like [TS]

  Google search like I probably just [TS]

  turned it into into text and typed into [TS]

  Google search and then read me the top [TS]

  hit or something like that but the [TS]

  bottom line is it answered my question [TS]

  it wasn't just like a a general purpose [TS]

  like what's the weather what does my day [TS]

  look like I had a specific question [TS]

  about a movie about the release date and [TS]

  interesting just tell me the movie and [TS]

  list off like all the metadata let me [TS]

  tell you everything about this movie [TS]

  starring this person directly this [TS]

  person releasing I had to wait for the [TS]

  it just told me the release date of the [TS]

  movie [TS]

  and that I love that right and that's [TS]

  something that I feel like you can't do [TS]

  if you aren't backed by Google because [TS]

  the hard part is not hearing me in [TS]

  translating a text the hard part is [TS]

  figuring out what did you say and what [TS]

  did you mean and how do I answer you now [TS]

  for all I know that's a canned thing [TS]

  that they expect people to ask or [TS]

  whatever but the more of those I have [TS]

  the less I think I'm just getting lucky [TS]

  and happening to hit upon something they [TS]

  anticipated and especially coded support [TS]

  for and there's just like the magic of [TS]

  Google so what was the movie Speight I [TS]

  don't remember I hope it was too long [TS]

  ago but despite this by Google home I [TS]

  feel like it's still it's still not [TS]

  being revised as quickly as I would have [TS]

  hoped and its capabilities not expanding [TS]

  in the way that I hoped but just for the [TS]

  basic functionality of answering my [TS]

  questions let me have the dinner table [TS]

  and quickly settling arguments it's [TS]

  money well spent [TS]

  all right name a movie on 4 October [TS]

  there you go Alexa what year was the [TS]

  Hunt for Red October released the movie [TS]

  The Hunt for Red October was released in [TS]

  1989 it's magic there's been a lot of [TS]

  these queries where I will ask the echo [TS]

  one of the you know a question like this [TS]

  and the things that I will say will that [TS]

  that I think there's no way that it's [TS]

  going to be able to help me with this [TS]

  well it didn't because it's wrong it's [TS]

  the 2nd of March 1990 [TS]

  really minor points morning-time DB that [TS]

  was the American really is that [TS]

  international versus you okay we'll hold [TS]

  on though lately when I thought to [TS]

  myself that didn't sound right to me [TS]

  you can ask similar questions about [TS]

  albums and songs and an artist or who [TS]

  sings the song whatever and all the [TS]

  lyrics search where you can name any [TS]

  lyrics in the song and it will figure it [TS]

  out I mean there's a lot of overlap [TS]

  between these things but like that that [TS]

  I think is amazing and like ask the same [TS]

  question say you know what is the [TS]

  release date for what year was it [TS]

  released you know when was it put out [TS]

  like just try different phrasings and [TS]

  see like eventually if you can stump it [TS]

  but it's pretty good well but basically [TS]

  so my point is I have asked it questions [TS]

  like this a number of times thinking [TS]

  that it would get it wrong the thinking [TS]

  that there would there be no chance [TS]

  that'll get it right and it gets it [TS]

  right about maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the time [TS]

  when I ask a weird question like that [TS]

  which is not only better than I expect [TS]

  but but is probably fairly similar to [TS]

  most of these things he probably even [TS]

  fairly similar how many how often Google [TS]

  gets it right like in my experience the [TS]

  the accuracy of search results between [TS]

  different search engines lately like I [TS]

  still use DuckDuckGo as my primary [TS]

  search engine Google like it turns out [TS]

  this this kind of stuff is actually not [TS]

  that rare to be decent at like there it [TS]

  is not just Google that can do these [TS]

  things like it is possible for other [TS]

  companies it you know in the case of [TS]

  like DuckDuckGo way smaller companies to [TS]

  be able to be competent at search just [TS]

  not Apple most of the time unfortunately [TS]

  but it is very possible for other [TS]

  companies [TS]

  remember Amazon had its own search where [TS]

  was I called a three it was called Alexa [TS]

  oh no yeah no Alex it was the rank right [TS]

  a three right eight a nine was was their [TS]

  search engine but it was anyway there's [TS]

  not a lot of them is Bing there's [TS]

  DuckDuckGo there's Google there's a 9 [TS]

  which Raleigh no still exists Apple has [TS]

  never dipped its toe into this field I [TS]

  don't think they need to be that many [TS]

  people especially if it's like App Store [TS]

  Coffea level can't start to domain way [TS]

  smaller than the web in an efficient [TS]

  manner well I look see researches things [TS]

  right see like especially like on in in [TS]

  context like Apple TV or Apple music [TS]

  like well from Alfre know the Apple TV [TS]

  at Rosalie it's searching libraries of [TS]

  content you know and and the App Store [TS]

  is really just a really big version of [TS]

  that that should be way better than it [TS]

  is no it is not yes no it's so is it you [TS]

  know just occurred to me doesn't Amazon [TS]

  own IMDB now yeah they sure do yeah they [TS]

  don't so how could they have gotten this [TS]

  wrong if IMDB says it's 1990 you can't [TS]

  find anything on the IMDB website with [TS]

  your own eyes and hands so it's like [TS]

  whatever it I am to be is now at work [TS]

  hard at work obscuring the information [TS]

  you want to know about movies because I [TS]

  go to that website page number like just [TS]

  who played the main character and I'm [TS]

  just scanning and seeing I have to [TS]

  disclose something or click on something [TS]

  it's just tons of you know sound and [TS]

  fury signifying nothing [TS]

  I miss the old IMDB yeah I mean chances [TS]

  are like the Alexa was trying to find [TS]

  the answer on this page and just got [TS]

  blocked by all the ads oh oh yeah what [TS]

  one more one more thing in the echo show [TS]

  Marco is lucky busy has a fairly [TS]

  long kitchen I would have never infested [TS]

  my kitchen as much as I would like to [TS]

  have a thing like this that is I think [TS]

  another limitation for a divide I can't [TS]

  really tell how big it is from the [TS]

  pictures but certainly it is both wider [TS]

  than the echo and you can't like put it [TS]

  behind or nestled into a corner or [TS]

  whatever you has to be somewhere where [TS]

  you can see it well I think it actually [TS]

  might be fairly small because didn't [TS]

  people say it's a seven inch screen yeah [TS]

  maybe it's I'm its hardtail maybe it's [TS]

  smaller than it looks like but anyway [TS]

  you can't you can't nestle it in a [TS]

  corner or hide it somewhere you do need [TS]

  the space and the line of sight for the [TS]

  thing which makes me think that it could [TS]

  replace like a kitchen TV so if this [TS]

  thing started getting live TV if Amazon [TS]

  wanted to pull a YouTube what is the [TS]

  YouTube one YouTube TV and Hulu as a [TS]

  live TV oh everyone at Apple has a [TS]

  skinny bundle and a live TV offering [TS]

  that would be great thing to cooperate [TS]

  this is people do like little TVs in [TS]

  their kitchen to like watch cooking [TS]

  shows or whatever with like [TS]

  voice-activated DVR functionality they [TS]

  already showed like hooking cooking up [TS]

  to your like a you know baby cam to show [TS]

  your baby and your crib and stuff the [TS]

  potential for a smart screen with good [TS]

  speakers and a camera that's internet [TS]

  connected with good software in your [TS]

  kitchen that feels like a fruitful like [TS]

  it's a device that has been made a [TS]

  million times over if you're old and [TS]

  remember all like the the Audrey or the [TS]

  that three come the maybe that's the [TS]

  Audrey that I'm thinking of but that [TS]

  Sony is made with Sony was it the evil I [TS]

  don't know this there's been tons of [TS]

  like things like this and they were just [TS]

  then we're going to say they were ahead [TS]

  of their time they were ahead of the [TS]

  tech they weren't ready there was no [TS]

  ecosystem there wasn't the smart search [TS]

  behind it there wasn't a speech [TS]

  recognition there wasn't so often there [TS]

  wasn't the internet for the really old [TS]

  ones I feel like the time is now and I [TS]

  really hope that we see more of these [TS]

  devices from from the big the big three [TS]

  or four however many however you want to [TS]

  count it Apple Amazon Google and whoever [TS]

  else not fewer we're sponsored this week [TS]

  by away visit away travel comm slash ATP [TS]

  and use promo code ATP to save $20 off a [TS]

  suitcase we've heard of a few companies [TS]

  here and there in podcast ads that have [TS]

  taken old stodgy business models and [TS]

  revolutionize them by giving you a [TS]

  nicely designed modern thoughtful [TS]

  product at a really great price [TS]

  that's what a way has done [TS]

  that's what a way has done [TS]

  for luggage they use high quality [TS]

  materials at much lower prices compared [TS]

  to other brands by cutting out middlemen [TS]

  and selling directly to you so they have [TS]

  four different sizes nine different [TS]

  colors the one you probably heard about [TS]

  is the carry on because this is [TS]

  interesting this has a built-in USB [TS]

  charging battery so you can actually you [TS]

  know like you normally need it in a [TS]

  checked bag so they don't put it in that [TS]

  one but in the carry-on you're going to [TS]

  have that with you throughout the [TS]

  airport through I travel and you can [TS]

  just plug your phone into your suitcase [TS]

  as you're waiting in an airport or [TS]

  whatever and charge it up it's so handy [TS]

  and they also have a hundred day trial [TS]

  any bag you get from away you can [TS]

  actually live with it for a hundred days [TS]

  you can travel with it during the free [TS]

  trial period and if any point you decide [TS]

  it's not for you you return it and you [TS]

  get a full refund no questions asked so [TS]

  it really is risk free and free shipping [TS]

  within the lower 48 states carry-on [TS]

  sizes are compliant with all major US [TS]

  airlines and maximize the amount you can [TS]

  pack there's so many thoughtful things [TS]

  not only the battery but also a [TS]

  removable washable laundry bag a [TS]

  patent-pending compression system for [TS]

  360 degrees spinning wheels which makes [TS]

  it much easier maneuver around the [TS]

  airport [TS]

  these are awesome suitcases and amazing [TS]

  prices even if you if you happen to be [TS]

  in New York City you can even visit [TS]

  their retail store to see them in person [TS]

  so check it out today go to away travel [TS]

  calm slash ATP and use promo code ATP [TS]

  during checkout to get $20 off once [TS]

  again Oh a travel calm slash ATP code [TS]

  ATP for 20 bucks off a suitcase thank [TS]

  you very much to a waiver sponsor in our [TS]

  show ah [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  all right so somebody has put something [TS]

  that I find actually somewhat terrifying [TS]

  in the show notes the show notes reads [TS]

  brief quiz I saw that earlier too and [TS]

  got a little bit scared of what I I knew [TS]

  immediately that it was John I mean come [TS]

  on yeah there was an article going [TS]

  around that hopefully you two were too [TS]

  busy this evening to read and follow the [TS]

  link for that involves a brief quiz that [TS]

  I think we should all take I have [TS]

  already taken it takes two seconds [TS]

  and so I will paste the URL into the [TS]

  chat room now what it is a thing that [TS]

  asks you to make a bunch of selections [TS]

  so just don't read the article don't [TS]

  scroll down just go to [TS]

  part where you make the selections and [TS]

  make the selections do not share your [TS]

  comments and then we've all done it come [TS]

  back and we will discuss our choices so [TS]

  here you guys in the chat room okay so [TS]

  what the hell is alphabet that's Google [TS]

  right Google's parent that's Google if [TS]

  an evil monarch forced you to choose in [TS]

  which order would you give up these [TS]

  inescapable Giants of text so okay I'm [TS]

  done well I give me I gotta think about [TS]

  this for a second easy-peasy people yeah [TS]

  Casey's got a mullet over just a little [TS]

  yell done yes [TS]

  all right so now I will explain the [TS]

  premise they list the big tech companies [TS]

  alphabet basically Google Apple [TS]

  Microsoft Facebook and Amazon and asks [TS]

  you and what are you would you be [TS]

  willing to give them up so if there's [TS]

  one company that you're like I don't [TS]

  care if that company goes away tomorrow [TS]

  that's obviously your number one pick [TS]

  you'd pick that one and like and you [TS]

  keep working your way down at the end [TS]

  you'll be left with the company you [TS]

  would least like to see depart this [TS]

  earth like if they just disappeared or [TS]

  whatever so who wants to go first what [TS]

  what uh well let's just let's go through [TS]

  our let's do top four style okay first [TS]

  of all the question of like how many [TS]

  people do you think arrived at this [TS]

  article and knew what alphabet was and [TS]

  then every time they mention it they [TS]

  have to say the parent company of Google [TS]

  because nobody knows what that is [TS]

  because Google is so bad at everything [TS]

  branding wise everything human they [TS]

  can't do I would have just called it [TS]

  Google but yes Lee uses the Google brand [TS]

  and I don't think can you think of [TS]

  something that is in alpha but not in [TS]

  Google that you care about like S&S [TS]

  stuff or something anyway let's let's [TS]

  now do our number one choice they're [TS]

  backwards top for the company that we [TS]

  would all be willing to get rid of first [TS]

  I'm willing to bet we all have the same [TS]

  one for this one yes Facebook Facebook [TS]

  nope whoa no all right what did you pick [TS]

  Microsoft Microsoft hmm what is [TS]

  Microsoft done for me lately and by [TS]

  lately I mean in the last year no more [TS]

  than that well they did like provide [TS]

  your livelihood for many years right [TS]

  okay yeah that's why I said only in the [TS]

  last year and you're absolutely right [TS]

  yeah but now you have a grudge like it [TS]

  in the style I am Mike [TS]

  figure edge no no no I will never be a [TS]

  grudge day well no it will never be [TS]

  grunts like you but you know uh what is [TS]

  Microsoft done for me lately nothing [TS]

  really I mean I do love Visual Studio [TS]

  code yes people are mentioning Visual [TS]

  Studio for the Mac but that's just a [TS]

  rebranded xamarin develop monodevelop [TS]

  whatever it's called I don't think that [TS]

  there's anything that Microsoft has [TS]

  given me in the last eight days 12 to 18 [TS]

  months that really affects me day-to-day [TS]

  and maybe I'm just missing something but [TS]

  I do get some value out of Facebook [TS]

  believe it or not whereas I don't think [TS]

  IG actively get any value out of [TS]

  Microsoft today what value do you get at [TS]

  Facebook [TS]

  oh shit Instagram oh shoot I didn't mean [TS]

  that at all oh that might change my tune [TS]

  yeah I just wrote but let's see I can't [TS]

  throw Microsoft under the bus either [TS]

  because I use their keyboard ha ha and [TS]

  also they own sky which were you which [TS]

  we don't love but we use it every week [TS]

  and there's nothing good to replace it [TS]

  these are all hard choices i factored [TS]

  this into my choice for Facebook is [TS]

  number one [TS]

  despite oculus which you also forgot [TS]

  about and Instagram or whatever that [TS]

  Facebook is the one I get rid of and [TS]

  rehab is evil monarch it doesn't [TS]

  necessarily say which one of these [TS]

  affects you that so that's the framing [TS]

  device that you're bringing to it [TS]

  Casey's decided the way he's going to [TS]

  pick this is like which one effects his [TS]

  life but there are many other factors [TS]

  that you use in determining which one do [TS]

  you want to depart this earth magically [TS]

  and Facebook I want to depart for so [TS]

  many reasons [TS]

  despite Instagram which I enjoy and [TS]

  despite oculus which may or may not be [TS]

  an interesting thing that I used some [TS]

  day that almost everything else they do [TS]

  i don't like and i believe that the need [TS]

  they fill could be filled equally or [TS]

  better by some other company if they [TS]

  were to just poof out of existence so [TS]

  facebook is my number one i don't like [TS]

  them yeah I'm going to stick with that [TS]

  to Eve as much as I love Instagram it it [TS]

  is like the other things on this list [TS]

  are more important to me and the [TS]

  omission of Facebook from the world I [TS]

  think I agree with you I think would [TS]

  have a better effect on the world not [TS]

  just me then then the removal of any [TS]

  other ones here Flickr could rise again [TS]

  to fill the Instagram if Instagram [TS]

  didn't exist I feel like something else [TS]

  would have done a similar thing because [TS]

  what it does is not as revolutionary as [TS]

  the [TS]

  that it was able to do it and gather [TS]

  this network of people and so on and so [TS]

  forth I mean honestly it's kind of [TS]

  amazing that tumblr didn't do that and I [TS]

  know I'm biased here but it was I [TS]

  looking back on it I think that tumblr [TS]

  had a big opportunity to be what [TS]

  Instagram was but their timing to mobile [TS]

  was all wrong because you know it was [TS]

  similar cases what would almost made [TS]

  Facebook pretty irrelevant in the mobile [TS]

  age is that like when you have like a [TS]

  big like desktop browser web service [TS]

  it's hard when mobile comes around to [TS]

  realize that you have to change [TS]

  everything and be mobile first Facebook [TS]

  realized it almost too late [TS]

  tumblr got it got it on it eventually [TS]

  too but by that point like a lot of the [TS]

  ground was already taken and including [TS]

  things against a gram alright so number [TS]

  two Facebook yeah for me is Microsoft [TS]

  obviously I saw for me as well and you [TS]

  know like you know like pieces they [TS]

  haven't done a lot for me recently [TS]

  however again these companies are all [TS]

  really big they do own a lot of stuff [TS]

  like you know none of us had anything [TS]

  nice except for Casey had anything nice [TS]

  to say about about the Facebook product [TS]

  itself but Instagram is owned by it so [TS]

  we have to consider that oculus think [TS]

  things like that [TS]

  with Microsoft they own a lot of stuff [TS]

  too as a dimension they own Skype we're [TS]

  all using Skype right now and as much as [TS]

  we hate it there's there's no clear [TS]

  better thing for podcasters to use [TS]

  except whatever the Germans are using [TS]

  with that studio link thing but I don't [TS]

  know anything about that I can't read [TS]

  German I can't understand the page and [TS]

  it looks like it's some kind of weird [TS]

  plugin for another app I don't use so [TS]

  well well well I guess I'll figure out [TS]

  some other time hope but so far so far [TS]

  you can still use Google Translate [TS]

  because you haven't got rid of Google [TS]

  yet so yeah right I actually did use [TS]

  that to read the day I opened the page [TS]

  in chrome so I could use the built-in [TS]

  Translate but but yeah ultimately [TS]

  Microsoft doesn't have a large role in [TS]

  my life so that would be my number two [TS]

  and it's not I don't really like I don't [TS]

  really dislike Microsoft I kind of feel [TS]

  bad for them these days because they're [TS]

  playing catch-up on so many major [TS]

  important fronts in the industry [TS]

  but they just don't provide a lot of [TS]

  value for me compared to the other ones [TS]

  above it on this list [TS]

  I picked Microsoft for a bunch of [TS]

  reasons most of which are not evil [TS]

  grudges there is evil grudge in the back [TS]

  of my mind [TS]

  but I can think of a lot of reasons why [TS]

  I actually wouldn't want them to go away [TS]

  which is why they're not number one Xbox [TS]

  even though I don't like it is an [TS]

  important counterbalance to PlayStation [TS]

  it's only real competitor in the same [TS]

  sort of level playing field because [TS]

  Nintendo is always off doing its own [TS]

  weird things so I think it's good that [TS]

  it exists that they did by Bungie which [TS]

  will wait them for forever but on the [TS]

  other hand we would not have the Bungie [TS]

  that we have today if it was not for [TS]

  Microsoft right so there's some credit [TS]

  there the cloud stuff they're doing I [TS]

  think is interesting and again is a [TS]

  counterbalance to both Amazon and Google [TS]

  and so I'd like to see more competition [TS]

  there but I don't like Word or Excel or [TS]

  office I think all this program the [TS]

  world will be better if those programs [TS]

  disappeared and we should you know again [TS]

  what come up with modern alternatives [TS]

  there dinosaurs we can't get rid of them [TS]

  because they've always been here and you [TS]

  know like it's a self-perpetuating cycle [TS]

  and you know the all those products I [TS]

  listed I either don't use them or would [TS]

  love to use something else so I don't I [TS]

  don't say goodbye to them with a grudge [TS]

  but out of this group they are my number [TS]

  two all right [TS]

  so number three Google for me yep dead [TS]

  oh there excuse me I selected alphabet [TS]

  whatever that means but I'm gonna say it [TS]

  means Google and this is again tricky [TS]

  because this includes things like [TS]

  YouTube which is you know that's a major [TS]

  I didn't consider that I think I think I [TS]

  stick by it [TS]

  but that's the thing all of these [TS]

  companies they have major acquisitions [TS]

  and major properties that you don't [TS]

  think of necessarily but you know Google [TS]

  owns YouTube and that's a major thing [TS]

  so that will you know that's hard to [TS]

  give up in a lot of ways for a lot of [TS]

  people and that but like you know there [TS]

  are other ways to find videos online [TS]

  just none of them are very big I guess [TS]

  but that doesn't mean somebody else [TS]

  couldn't make one I don't know it's it's [TS]

  a weird calculus but you know I don't [TS]

  use Google's Web Apps for anything other [TS]

  than the show notes for this show which [TS]

  we could you know we've again we decided [TS]

  that's the best for us to just use [TS]

  Google Docs for our share notes for the [TS]

  show but there are other options you [TS]

  know the we've all decided they aren't [TS]

  as good but we could go to one of them [TS]

  and I don't use Google web search the [TS]

  vast majority of [TS]

  time I'm almost always using DuckDuckGo [TS]

  I only occasionally jump into Google [TS]

  when I'm not finding the answer I want [TS]

  so it's that would be fairly easy for me [TS]

  but for a lot of other people that would [TS]

  be really hard because they they have a [TS]

  lot of tie ins to things like Gmail that [TS]

  are really important to them so it's [TS]

  kind of easy one for me to say Google [TS]

  but I wouldn't think that would be very [TS]

  common I did not say Google I said [TS]

  Amazon interesting you know as we were [TS]

  talking I started to wonder if me [TS]

  choosing Google for number three was a [TS]

  poor choice because specifically of [TS]

  youtube i I don't contribute to YouTube [TS]

  very often although I have once but I I [TS]

  feel like I am on YouTube almost every [TS]

  day to look at something or look up [TS]

  something or something like that so my [TS]

  answer was to put Google as number 3 but [TS]

  I wonder if maybe I should have swapped [TS]

  that with Amazon so how did you land on [TS]

  Amazon as the next one to go John well [TS]

  Google stuff that Google does is you [TS]

  know going back to the Casey framing of [TS]

  like these things that are important you [TS]

  like to use I use it for my email there [TS]

  is no alternative for a gmail that has [TS]

  the same properties like I don't like [TS]

  something my own server using IMAP is [TS]

  not the same as Gmail I am a gmail user [TS]

  at this point not an email user I use [TS]

  Google search all the time and I the [TS]

  alternatives are differently able to do [TS]

  things but I'm used to the way Google [TS]

  works and I just use it so extensively [TS]

  that I wouldn't want to have to try to [TS]

  get you something else [TS]

  YouTube was a big factor in my decision [TS]

  as well I spend a lot of time watching [TS]

  YouTube videos and I believe that it's [TS]

  not a matter of if they went away [TS]

  someone else can make a video a service [TS]

  because even before Google owned YouTube [TS]

  YouTube is very good at what it what it [TS]

  does in terms of you know making video [TS]

  that plays when you hit the play button [TS]

  that the recommendation engine to [TS]

  figuring out things you might be [TS]

  interested in and you know there's all [TS]

  sorts of terrible things about YouTube [TS]

  as well inevitably is the big dominant [TS]

  player in a field but I think they do a [TS]

  good job of what they do and if you know [TS]

  Google went away tomorrow it would take [TS]

  a long time for those ecosystems to [TS]

  reform around what another set of [TS]

  services so I wouldn't want to say [TS]

  goodbye to as well and [TS]

  all the other stuff that Google does all [TS]

  the wacky things that it does for the [TS]

  most part I like them the translation [TS]

  engine that was translating a German web [TS]

  page for you Google has really good [TS]

  translation and it gets better all the [TS]

  time all their weird projects with [TS]

  hot-air balloons and Wi-Fi and [TS]

  self-driving cars and like I love all [TS]

  that stuff about Google and I think the [TS]

  world would be lesser for them not to be [TS]

  there so that's why an Amazon why would [TS]

  I pick Amazon as my number three Amazon [TS]

  is great I use it like crazy like that [TS]

  that's what I was thinking about like if [TS]

  Amazon one way where would I order all [TS]

  my stuff because I order so much stuff [TS]

  from there right but I've used other [TS]

  places that sell you stuff over the [TS]

  internet and they're not that much worse [TS]

  than Amazon now maybe they don't have as [TS]

  much selection and maybe they don't have [TS]

  as cheap shipping and so on and so forth [TS]

  I live beg to differ here I've used [TS]

  enough of them to know I mean even just [TS]

  like a simple is like when I you know [TS]

  camera stuff I can buy from Amazon or I [TS]

  can buy it from B&H photo and bnh photo [TS]

  is not a Titan of the internet industry [TS]

  but it's fine lens rentals comm is not [TS]

  Amazon but but it was fine you know like [TS]

  but I've I bought enough stuff online [TS]

  from non Amazon places that I feel like [TS]

  I could live with that [TS]

  and often my defaulting of Amazon that [TS]

  we all do like I go to buy somewhere [TS]

  let's go to Amazon that defaulting runs [TS]

  me to trouble more often these days [TS]

  because I will accept Amazon selection [TS]

  as well Amazon does it have it must not [TS]

  exist which is not true or if Alison has [TS]

  a price it must be a reasonable price [TS]

  which is not true sometimes something on [TS]

  Amazon is insanely highly priced and you [TS]

  need to do some comparisons elsewhere [TS]

  for a variety of weird reason so I do [TS]

  use it I do value and rely on the [TS]

  service but I believe that it is not as [TS]

  impressive and because I don't have an [TS]

  echo and don't do I'm not in that [TS]

  ecosystem either and also I believe that [TS]

  other people can do similar things [TS]

  it was my number three was this was [TS]

  probably my most difficult choice [TS]

  between these two Amazon and an alphabet [TS]

  slash Google but I came down on Amazon [TS]

  interesting alright so that makes number [TS]

  four next is that right see this is [TS]

  where I picked Amazon for my number four [TS]

  I saved it for this same here you know [TS]

  my reasoning [TS]

  for saving it for so long throughout [TS]

  this this elimination is basically that [TS]

  you know there are lots of places like [TS]

  you know you mentioned B and H there are [TS]

  lots of other online retailers for the [TS]

  and by the way again Amazon owns a lot [TS]

  of stuff including if you're a [TS]

  programmer AWS which is kind of [TS]

  important for a lot of stacks and and [TS]

  not always easy to replace the [TS]

  components you're using depending on [TS]

  what you're using but anyway for retail [TS]

  alone whenever I buy anything from other [TS]

  places I very often wish I would have [TS]

  bought it from Amazon for various [TS]

  reasons there's a lot of parts of it [TS]

  that other people can do reasonably well [TS]

  sometimes but it's rare that you get any [TS]

  other vendor anywhere else online that [TS]

  has the the combination of everything [TS]

  ends on offers and and this is not only [TS]

  like the the kind of fundamentals of [TS]

  buying stuff online which is you know [TS]

  get it for a good price I mean now a lot [TS]

  of places offer the same price on things [TS]

  as Amazon or similar price close enough [TS]

  pricing but also be able to ship to you [TS]

  quickly and for not that much money and [TS]

  be able to accept returns really easily [TS]

  if it doesn't work out for you if it [TS]

  arrives broken be able to provide you [TS]

  know basic order tracking and things [TS]

  like that many of the other online [TS]

  retail things that are that are good [TS]

  amazon actually owns them things like [TS]

  Zappos and SOCOM which is now merged [TS]

  into Amazon diapers.com all this stuff [TS]

  like a lot of those things that Amazon [TS]

  actually owns them all so it would it [TS]

  would rule out a bunch of that stuff and [TS]

  it's also just really nice to have [TS]

  somewhere where like I've been buying [TS]

  large quantities of things from Amazon [TS]

  for so many years now for well over a [TS]

  decade now that I can go back and search [TS]

  my order history whenever I need to know [TS]

  what was that thing I bought or when did [TS]

  I buy this thing that might be about to [TS]

  break and I want to know how long it's [TS]

  Warren T is like when did I buy this how [TS]

  much should I pay for it back then you [TS]

  know how do I you know if I want to get [TS]

  another one of these things because the [TS]

  one I have just wore out or broke or ran [TS]

  out or whatever [TS]

  what exactly was that so I can just go [TS]

  buy the same thing again Amazon is great [TS]

  when you have a big history like that [TS]

  and so there are there are other than [TS]

  there's other retailers that that [TS]

  provides some of these parts but to have [TS]

  it all in one place like Amazon is is [TS]

  really very very convenient there are [TS]

  lots of things about Amazon retail that [TS]

  is that are bad things like you know the [TS]

  conditions in their warehouses or for [TS]

  some friends for some other workers like [TS]

  there have been various reports over [TS]

  time about how those aren't those are [TS]

  less than great so it's not it's not [TS]

  wonderful in always being a seller on [TS]

  Amazon apparently has a lot of issues [TS]

  because of things like they're [TS]

  incredibly overly generous return policy [TS]

  for the for the customer which is very [TS]

  problematic for a lot of the sellers but [TS]

  for the most part as a user of Amazon I [TS]

  really really greatly greatly enjoy it [TS]

  again it isn't perfect like they're like [TS]

  for example I recently got a need to get [TS]

  a a SanDisk memory card a fairly fast [TS]

  decent one that was like 60 bucks and [TS]

  any memory card is kind of a risk to buy [TS]

  from Amazon because they have such a [TS]

  problem with counterfeit products being [TS]

  in their stock and memory cards are very [TS]

  commonly counterfeited so anything like [TS]

  that I'll buy from B&H because they're [TS]

  they're much more reliable on that in [TS]

  that in that way and things like pro [TS]

  audio gear I'll buy from B&H most of [TS]

  time too but like for the with the with [TS]

  those few exceptions anything I can buy [TS]

  from Amazon I usually will buy from [TS]

  Amazon which is a Charles remember AWS [TS]

  s3 ec2 and all the other services that [TS]

  Amazon that's powering tons of star ups [TS]

  I know there are equivalent cloud [TS]

  offerings from Microsoft in Google but [TS]

  if they were to disappear the next day [TS]

  we're probably kill like half the [TS]

  internet startups and a bunch of other [TS]

  companies like it was like when as three [TS]

  goes down you find out how many [TS]

  companies are relying on it so it is a [TS]

  tough one but yeah I I had a number [TS]

  three instead of number four you never [TS]

  and I had Google in them before but I [TS]

  already talked about that [TS]

  fair enough so we all chose Apple last [TS]

  yeah I mean surprise like obviously [TS]

  we're going to do that but I suppose [TS]

  this is a good litmus test for this quiz [TS]

  doesn't give you much doesn't give you [TS]

  much guidance you could use any criteria [TS]

  you want to remove it and we're all [TS]

  talking about different things we [TS]

  thought about but I I would guess that [TS]

  for for the reason we kept to Google or [TS]

  Apple until last is mostly based on the [TS]

  fact that we use Macs and [TS]

  iOS devices so it's suddenly a very [TS]

  personal decision I get that factored in [TS]

  like oh I use Gmail or I already lots of [TS]

  stuff from Amazon or you know I get some [TS]

  value from Facebook and not from [TS]

  Microsoft cuz I don't use their stuff [TS]

  but for Apple I think would actually be [TS]

  harder to argue about like if Apple is [TS]

  gone no one will be able to do X right I [TS]

  think at least for me it more comes down [TS]

  to I use them like the Mac and there is [TS]

  no alternative that I would want to use [TS]

  and I use them like iOS devices and [TS]

  there's probably no alternative that I [TS]

  would want to use and so I don't want [TS]

  those things to go away for me it is [TS]

  less about if Apple is gone they'll [TS]

  never be self-driving cars because [TS]

  that's not true if Apple is gone no one [TS]

  will ever make VR a are not true like if [TS]

  Apple is gone no one will ever make a [TS]

  you know a handheld touch operating [TS]

  system again actually we have those now [TS]

  you know so it's not it's not based on [TS]

  future stuff like I think in the past if [TS]

  we were sort of in the in the beginning [TS]

  phases like just after the iPod and when [TS]

  Apple was making a series of you know [TS]

  computers that were really impressive [TS]

  and weird and you know setting the world [TS]

  on fire and then the iPod the surprise [TS]

  success the surprise overnight five-year [TS]

  success I think I would have said at [TS]

  that time I'm saying now before last [TS]

  because I want to see what they do next [TS]

  because they're just doing hit after hit [TS]

  after hit and even the duds like the [TS]

  cube are still awesome right you know [TS]

  what what is that Apple going to do next [TS]

  these days I have less of what is an [TS]

  Apple go to do next thing and it's more [TS]

  just like please Apple you make many [TS]

  products that I like and enjoy that an [TS]

  important part of my life and I wouldn't [TS]

  like the alternatives please [TS]

  keep making them and improving them [TS]

  which is a lesser thing but I did save [TS]

  it for last and for me it's for very [TS]

  selfish reasons I mean I make my living [TS]

  off of Apple no matter how you slice it [TS]

  be at this show or my job' job it's all [TS]

  because of Apple at this point so I [TS]

  would be pretty sad and broke if he [TS]

  disappeared for me it's all about Beats [TS]

  I just don't want to give up my feet my [TS]

  beats solo2 studio-x headphones don't an [TS]

  apple music connect right is that really [TS]

  a big part of your life yes yes [TS]

  definitely I really love connecting with [TS]

  my engaged I don't even know what it [TS]

  does it's a big part of finding the [TS]

  setting to remove that [TS]

  your toolbar in iOS that's the best yeah [TS]

  no I mean you know so like Casey I also [TS]

  make my my living off of Apple stuff you [TS]

  know whether it's through my iOS app [TS]

  which could not exist anymore Apple went [TS]

  away you know and you know yes overcast [TS]

  does have a web player which is used by [TS]

  something like 1% of the user base so [TS]

  that's probably not much of a business [TS]

  there granted it does suck but it's [TS]

  still not much not much users there so [TS]

  my living would go away or most of it at [TS]

  least we could theoretically keep [TS]

  podcasting and we could make money that [TS]

  way but a large part of what we talked [TS]

  about would go away especially if we [TS]

  limit LIGO 5 companies look for keys [TS]

  here we'd all be using Windows or Linux [TS]

  and androids I think we'd have a lot of [TS]

  things to talk about that's yeah that's [TS]

  the spirit so that would be a problem [TS]

  but and also I will go one step further [TS]

  speaking of that John that you know you [TS]

  mentioned that you know like that you [TS]

  would that without Apple you know you [TS]

  couldn't really say like all without [TS]

  Apple nobody would ever do X or this [TS]

  this thing would ever exist I would say [TS]

  that there are many of those things in [TS]

  practice but the one that I will point [TS]

  out here is I think without Apple nobody [TS]

  would ever make a great personal [TS]

  computing platform again and there's [TS]

  lots of reasons why and this could be a [TS]

  bigger discussion I don't know but this [TS]

  is part of the reason why I'm so [TS]

  defensive of Apple continuing to make [TS]

  Pro hardware and keeping the Mac healthy [TS]

  because without that many slices of [TS]

  people have to go to Windows or Linux or [TS]

  whatever future options might come about [TS]

  and I honestly do not believe that [TS]

  anyone else any other company will ever [TS]

  make a good general purpose computer [TS]

  operating system as we know it today [TS]

  besides Apple well you put a lot of [TS]

  qualifiers on that because you're saying [TS]

  as we know it like I think that if Apple [TS]

  was to go away and you're waiting for [TS]

  the next great one of those things it [TS]

  would be an nos that is not quote [TS]

  unquote as we know today like to give an [TS]

  example from the past that didn't quite [TS]

  do it but I feel like could have webOS [TS]

  and remember webOS this little mess had [TS]

  some bad idea [TS]

  but it's not is not a desktop operating [TS]

  system or general purpose operating [TS]

  system as we know it right and even you [TS]

  can even argue Android like I feel like [TS]

  the next what you'd be waiting for is [TS]

  the next great computing platform after [TS]

  Android essentially because we've [TS]

  already got Android and iOS here race [TS]

  we've already raised Google's or Android [TS]

  has gone and then we have raced Apple so [TS]

  that was gone so we're left sided with [TS]

  this void right and I feel like the next [TS]

  thing to emerge would be more like webOS [TS]

  iOS and Android you're right that there [TS]

  would never be with all your qualifiers [TS]

  a great personal computing [TS]

  general-purpose computing platform as we [TS]

  know it because I feel like that time [TS]

  has passed and so it is true that we'd [TS]

  be losing we'd be losing a category of [TS]

  things right and that would be sad for [TS]

  us because we're old but I would indeed [TS]

  be a great a new great computing [TS]

  platform it just wouldn't be [TS]

  recognizable to us as like a [TS]

  general-purpose computing platform I [TS]

  mean it's surely in this day and age it [TS]

  would be entirely like lockdown and [TS]

  filled with an app store and also other [TS]

  stuff exactly probably be touch based [TS]

  that or VR based or whatever and like an [TS]

  ad base you know no we'll see I mean I [TS]

  thought you were gonna say privacy [TS]

  that's what I thought you were if you [TS]

  look at all these companies which one of [TS]

  these even makes like most of don't even [TS]

  make faints in the direction of privacy [TS]

  right I mean at Google I feel like this [TS]

  is kind of good on the security of its [TS]

  own data but that's just so it can data [TS]

  myself doesn't open to the outside world [TS]

  right but Apple is the by far the [TS]

  strongest on data privacy for you know [TS]

  and even things like you know energy [TS]

  sustainability and stuff like things [TS]

  that Apple apples like apples core [TS]

  values under Tim Cook or otherwise these [TS]

  other companies don't express in the [TS]

  same strong way and so data privacy [TS]

  could be with that Apple how long would [TS]

  it take for another company of that size [TS]

  to actually care about the privacy [TS]

  security your data to the point where [TS]

  it's fighting the government to prevent [TS]

  it from turning stuff over that is not a [TS]

  value that is spread very far and wide [TS]

  in tech so it would be shame to lose [TS]

  that as well interesting quiz for sure [TS]

  yeah so now now we can scroll down [TS]

  anything and see what everyone else [TS]

  picked so 57% pick Facebook is number [TS]

  one which I think is interesting I mean [TS]

  who knows like this is a self-selecting [TS]

  thing who's going to click on these [TS]

  things probably a bunch of tech nerds [TS]

  there's a lot of hatred of Facebook [TS]

  among tech nerds but this is the New [TS]

  York Times by the way it's on its thing [TS]

  so I'm thinking that maybe the audience [TS]

  is broader then I might imagine maybe [TS]

  it's not entirely tech nerds and the [TS]

  what I want to believe is that it shows [TS]

  that Facebook is popular because [TS]

  Facebook is popular but you know people [TS]

  don't really have that much love for it [TS]

  right they're like you have to be on [TS]

  Facebook because everyone's on Facebook [TS]

  and everyone's on Facebook because I [TS]

  runs on Facebook but not universally [TS]

  beloved for whatever reason whether it's [TS]

  the software platform itself or the [TS]

  things people associate with it or the [TS]

  resent the fact that they have to be [TS]

  there or whatever you know Microsoft and [TS]

  second you know Microsoft is is not on [TS]

  the way up I'm effects on the way down [TS]

  but it isn't it is in transition so it [TS]

  doesn't surprise me transition down [TS]

  Amazon third and one third kind of [TS]

  surprises to me because I thought I [TS]

  would think more people would frame this [TS]

  as here's a service that I use all the [TS]

  time if I couldn't order from Amazon but [TS]

  maybe maybe only tech nerds with more [TS]

  money than time water everything on [TS]

  Amazon I don't know alphabet assuming [TS]

  people knew what the hell that was [TS]

  oh I'll bet is third I think people like [TS]

  Google I think people like YouTube [TS]

  especially YouTube I think people you [TS]

  know in the general population don't [TS]

  want it they just think of Google is the [TS]

  way you search things they don't know [TS]

  what the duck taco exists they maybe [TS]

  heard the word Bing once googles and [TS]

  essential thing everything is googling [TS]

  and then YouTube if they even know where [TS]

  the YouTube was part of it they like I'm [TS]

  not giving up YouTube YouTube is [TS]

  basically my TV and then Apple most [TS]

  people wanted to drop that last because [TS]

  I don't know like the Apple Apple [TS]

  customer sat and brand recognition and [TS]

  good feelings you know people have a lot [TS]

  of good feelings about this is not a [TS]

  strict ranking is it really just tells [TS]

  you you know 32% chose to drop it last [TS]

  and 26% chose to drop alphabet first so [TS]

  it to slice and dice this data it would [TS]

  be difficult but anyway if you look at [TS]

  the little bar graphs at the bottom [TS]

  Facebook drop first is just the runaway [TS]

  winner and then drop last actually no [TS]

  GLE was that had a higher percentage of [TS]

  drop last so you go 40% for google and [TS]

  32% for apple so two companies with a [TS]

  recognizable brain [TS]

  and that people really really like and [TS]

  Facebook nobody likes them we are [TS]

  sponsored tonight by Squarespace [TS]

  use offer code ATP when you sign up to [TS]

  get 10% off your first purchase make [TS]

  your next move with a beautiful website [TS]

  from Squarespace we all know how to make [TS]

  websites most people listen to this [TS]

  program how to make websites we've been [TS]

  around the block a few times around here [TS]

  but the fact is you really shouldn't [TS]

  spend your time writing cmss from [TS]

  scratch or posting your own services and [TS]

  put installing your own software on my [TS]

  posting just for stuff that you can do [TS]

  on Squarespace and this includes so much [TS]

  more than you might think if you haven't [TS]

  looked at it recently Squarespace has [TS]

  not only you know what you'd expect from [TS]

  a CMS blogs galleries info pages Maps [TS]

  calendar stuff like that but they also [TS]

  have a complete store functionality you [TS]

  can even host podcasts on there if you [TS]

  want to they have so much built into the [TS]

  Squarespace platform and it's so easy to [TS]

  use no matter what your skill level so [TS]

  whether you're a programmer like some of [TS]

  us or whether you are just a nerd or [TS]

  whether you're a total novice [TS]

  Squarespace makes it easy for you to do [TS]

  what you want to do in very little time [TS]

  it's incredibly powerful incredibly [TS]

  customizable everything is what you see [TS]

  is what you get it's so incredibly easy [TS]

  to make it look yours and to make it [TS]

  look great and they handle all the [TS]

  support for you they handle the hosting [TS]

  they handle the security they handle so [TS]

  much for you that you don't have to [TS]

  worry about and you can get back to [TS]

  doing your actual project whatever [TS]

  you're making a website to do you should [TS]

  be focused more on that than on your [TS]

  hosting platform because you shouldn't [TS]

  have to worry about that Squarespace [TS]

  gives you the luxury of not worrying [TS]

  about your hosting platform so start a [TS]

  free trial site today at squarespace.com [TS]

  when you sign up make sure to use the [TS]

  offer code ATP to get 10% off your first [TS]

  purchase make your next move with a [TS]

  beautiful website from Squarespace ah [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  Marco you want to talk to us about how [TS]

  you don't believe in Dropbox anymore and [TS]

  that would have been your first one to [TS]

  go if you had the option yeah so a few [TS]

  up maybe about a month or two ago now I [TS]

  forget exactly when it was about a month [TS]

  ago maybe I decided to try a life [TS]

  without Dropbox basically I still have [TS]

  my [TS]

  count but I uninstalled it from all my [TS]

  computers and and I stopped using it for [TS]

  anything except I logged into the [TS]

  website to download the audio files that [TS]

  you guys give me every week for this [TS]

  podcast and because and there were a [TS]

  number of reasons why I wanted to drop [TS]

  Dropbox their software on the Mac has [TS]

  gotten increasingly invasive of the [TS]

  system it does creepy things like trying [TS]

  to hack the accessibility database and [TS]

  installing kernel extensions and things [TS]

  all in the name of features that I don't [TS]

  want you know think things like the [TS]

  accessibility thing I think was about [TS]

  like sucking in photos or something and [TS]

  and the kernel extensions are for things [TS]

  like their their project infinite file [TS]

  system thing that I don't need or want [TS]

  and there was there's no like good [TS]

  options to just say no please don't do [TS]

  this thanks just give me the basic thing [TS]

  that uses the supported API in Mac OS to [TS]

  do this to stuff that you're doing for [TS]

  syncing the folder like that's all I [TS]

  really want is a synced folder like [TS]

  that's that's all I really wanted this [TS]

  thing what you know basically the thing [TS]

  it used to be so and so all these [TS]

  features I think are like all this stuff [TS]

  that I don't want or use that are part [TS]

  of Dropbox now let's see what else I can [TS]

  get away with and and what I've what [TS]

  I've settled on at the moment is I just [TS]

  moved everything to iCloud Drive and [TS]

  because I already pay for our cloud [TS]

  storage for all my photos I already have [TS]

  all Apple devices that I'm running this [TS]

  on with one important exception which is [TS]

  my my server that runs my blog engine [TS]

  which I'll get to but for the most part [TS]

  is like iCloud Drive should work fine [TS]

  for me so let's see how this goes so far [TS]

  it's mostly fine but I think I'm gonna [TS]

  go back anyway in everyday use [TS]

  everything's fine with iCloud Drive I [TS]

  even like to make the transition easier [TS]

  with some of my muscle memory of like [TS]

  running shell scripts in my Dropbox [TS]

  folder I I sim linked home slash Dropbox [TS]

  to whatever the crazy path is like [TS]

  mobile documents left whatever whatever [TS]

  the path is the actual iCloud iCloud [TS]

  Drive folder on your Mac I sim linked [TS]

  home slash Dropbox to that so so I at [TS]

  least start you know that everything is [TS]

  kind of where I expected to be if I if I [TS]

  into like a muscle memory of like you [TS]

  know going to Dropbox folder we're [TS]

  running a cert from there whatever else [TS]

  so that was actually a very easy [TS]

  progression as far as I can tell [TS]

  doing that has not caused anything [TS]

  really weird to happen I do keep running [TS]

  out of file descriptors but it's [TS]

  probably not really it's probably not [TS]

  that I also laugh anyway so so for [TS]

  sharing my own files between my [TS]

  computers like the basic synced folder [TS]

  iCloud Drive has been totally fine for [TS]

  me I haven't noticed any kind of weird [TS]

  data loss [TS]

  everything is always right there when I [TS]

  want it one of the interesting things [TS]

  about it is because it kind of has like [TS]

  infinite background privileges on iOS I [TS]

  was out working today out in the world [TS]

  on my iPad not something I actually do [TS]

  very often but but I was doing it today [TS]

  for various reasons number one cellular [TS]

  max don't exist but anyway I was doing [TS]

  this and I went to the iCloud Drive app [TS]

  on my iPad for the very first time I [TS]

  have never launched it before and all my [TS]

  stuff was there and all the files that I [TS]

  worked out that I wanted to access we're [TS]

  already there because it is always [TS]

  working in the background it is [TS]

  privileged it has like apples blessing [TS]

  to do whatever it wants so it unlike [TS]

  Dropbox which can only work like if I [TS]

  had already ever launched it first of [TS]

  all and then you know whenever it gets a [TS]

  background update but then the system [TS]

  controls that and limits it and if I [TS]

  never use it it won't really get any so [TS]

  it has privileges on Apple platforms [TS]

  that Dropbox can't eat can't have I mean [TS]

  on the Mac again camera on iOS it can't [TS]

  so for the most part for just that [TS]

  purpose of sharing your own files [TS]

  between your own devices iCloud Drive [TS]

  has been totally fine for me the main [TS]

  areas that that hurt are number one I [TS]

  built my blog engine on Dropbox now I [TS]

  don't blog very often anymore and that's [TS]

  that's a separate discussion and I want [TS]

  to change that but one of the main [TS]

  problems with this is that now I don't [TS]

  have a way to edit my blog except for SS [TS]

  aging into my server and using them on [TS]

  the in the terminal to edit is their [TS]

  best yeah [TS]

  which is which is clumsy to say the [TS]

  least I could also just switch to a [TS]

  regular CMS but you know I'm not going [TS]

  to do that [TS]

  exactly you know me I know me that's not [TS]

  going to happen and so that's yeah so [TS]

  that that has been that has been a pain [TS]

  and a bigger pain has been our shared [TS]

  our shared folder for this show the way [TS]

  we do the show is that this is a common [TS]

  thing you know like you guys give me [TS]

  audio files every week from your [TS]

  recording I take them out of the Dropbox [TS]

  folder I make a project record it never [TS]

  you know sync it all up and edit and [TS]

  everything else and publish it we also [TS]

  work together on certain files and [TS]

  folders within that shared folder so [TS]

  when we're doing things like t-shirt [TS]

  designs where we're working often with [TS]

  shared files in that folder and this is [TS]

  an area that as far as I know iCloud [TS]

  Drive has nothing to offer that there [TS]

  are no as far as I know right there's no [TS]

  collaborative iCloud Drive folder [TS]

  syncing options and maybe it's everybody [TS]

  see maybe they'll change that so maybe I [TS]

  should wait but but for the most part as [TS]

  far as I know that doesn't exist so [TS]

  collaborate with other people and [TS]

  working with other people in a shared [TS]

  folder I don't that seems like it's I'm [TS]

  gonna have to either go without that or [TS]

  do what I do now which is just download [TS]

  stuff the web interface but that makes [TS]

  it it's much less commuting to actually [TS]

  like work in the folders with you guys I [TS]

  guess one thing if you're if you're just [TS]

  giving me files and I just have to [TS]

  download them that's fine but if we are [TS]

  working together on something where [TS]

  we're like we're all kind of editing [TS]

  stuff in a folder together the web [TS]

  interface is going to suck royally for [TS]

  that that I should not be using that so [TS]

  basically I'm probably going to go back [TS]

  to Dropbox because of those two big [TS]

  things of shared folders and it isn't [TS]

  just you guys okay I occasionally need [TS]

  for other things but it's this show is [TS]

  the one that happens most often but so [TS]

  basically Dropbox shared folders and the [TS]

  blog engine problem now I could install [TS]

  another cloud service to do these things [TS]

  I could for instance use something like [TS]

  whatever the new name is for BitTorrent [TS]

  sync was it's rosalie oh yeah I could do [TS]

  that there's a bunch of other things [TS]

  that are kind of like that you know [TS]

  other other various services and [TS]

  products that will behave like Dropbox [TS]

  so maybe I should [TS]

  try some of those first but that's it's [TS]

  probably going to be hard to ever [TS]

  address the shared folder problem with [TS]

  those things because we'll drive will do [TS]

  it [TS]

  well I found that's on that drive is [TS]

  fine I trust Google even less than [TS]

  Dropbox I have a terabyte of Google [TS]

  Drive stuff and I'm like I'll stop [TS]

  paying for that one I don't need it [TS]

  anymore but I don't it's nice to have I [TS]

  mean I still I still prefer Dropbox but [TS]

  Google Drive and onedrive which is not [TS]

  as terrible as you think it is speaking [TS]

  of someone who has had forcibly [TS]

  installed on their Mac at work I don't [TS]

  know it's this is the problem I have is [TS]

  that all the other options sound worse [TS]

  to me like from the ones that are from [TS]

  big companies like like Google Drive or [TS]

  I think even Amazon has something like [TS]

  this and box and boxes where I see right [TS]

  about you're right about that so yeah so [TS]

  this thing like I think all of these [TS]

  things are worse in some way and to [TS]

  address the shared folder problem I [TS]

  pretty much need to use what everyone [TS]

  else around me is using and it around [TS]

  our community and around these parts [TS]

  that's Dropbox no question like it's [TS]

  always Dropbox so I basically have to [TS]

  decide like how much am I willing to [TS]

  fight Dropbox or two to fight not having [TS]

  Dropbox how much is that worth to me [TS]

  versus how annoying is it to just have [TS]

  it and tolerate its crappy Mac client [TS]

  and I'm leaning more towards [TS]

  reinstalling it just because it's not [TS]

  having it has been a pain in those two [TS]

  big areas but we will see I don't have [TS]

  made any final decisions yet what do you [TS]

  guys think [TS]

  didn't you disable the privileged [TS]

  accessibility blah blah blah thing I [TS]

  just say no every time it boots up and [TS]

  it says we'd your password to work [TS]

  properly I'm like no you don't I know [TS]

  you're lying to me Dropbox so I just say [TS]

  no I just cancel every time I reboot but [TS]

  it that pisses me off like why should I [TS]

  have to say that you should let it it's [TS]

  probably dumb enough that you can let it [TS]

  install and then modify the thing such [TS]

  that the OS will refuse to run them and [TS]

  so the check to see that it is [TS]

  successfully installed will return true [TS]

  but then they'll never actually run and [TS]

  you'll get some errors in your console [TS]

  like you just chmod the files to because [TS]

  it's especially the kernel extension Mac [TS]

  OS is super picky about the permissions [TS]

  of every single thing having to do with [TS]

  the Chrome extension for [TS]

  reasons if you just flip on the right [TS]

  bit unlike group or other on one file [TS]

  the OS will refuse to load it and it [TS]

  will just join errorlog and I bet you [TS]

  that Dropbox is dumb enough that when it [TS]

  tries to see whether it needs to prompt [TS]

  you it will just look to see if like a [TS]

  file exists and it's not getting down to [TS]

  the permission level who knows anyway [TS]

  there are possible ways to hack around [TS]

  that or you just let it do what it does [TS]

  because I let it do what it does I don't [TS]

  use the infinite thing I don't think I [TS]

  ever will [TS]

  Dropbox drop boxes occasionally gets [TS]

  flipped out because it tries to drink [TS]

  from the fire hose of filesystem events [TS]

  yep right and I wish it would drink from [TS]

  a smaller firehose of just the [TS]

  filesystem events that happen inside the [TS]

  Dropbox folder but my impression based [TS]

  on the activity of dbfs event D or [TS]

  whatever the hell that thing is called [TS]

  is that it's flipping out when stuff is [TS]

  going on on the filesystem that is not [TS]

  inside the Dropbox folder and I wish it [TS]

  would just chill out but other than that [TS]

  which I can solve by quitting Dropbox [TS]

  which by the way is the thing I can't do [TS]

  as easily with the iCloud Drive thing I [TS]

  prefer and I'm still terrified of iCloud [TS]

  drive because of the weird behaviors [TS]

  that I've seen with weird the locked [TS]

  files that can't be opened or deleted [TS]

  anywhere and and no recourse and no [TS]

  ability to turn it on and often no way [TS]

  to control the indication of download [TS]

  state or force things to download no way [TS]

  to pin files to my iOS devices I don't [TS]

  know if that's even true but I'm [TS]

  assuming it is all features that I have [TS]

  with Dropbox I just find Dropbox so much [TS]

  more tractable because it is a third [TS]

  party thing and I am concerned about the [TS]

  increasing invasiveness but as long as [TS]

  practically speaking it doesn't do [TS]

  anything bad to my computer and if I [TS]

  need to turn it off I can I'm still [TS]

  definitely sticking with that I do have [TS]

  Google Drive installed and well note and [TS]

  a bunch of other things and occasionally [TS]

  I fire up Google Drive and I think it's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  Google Drive is fine I just prefer [TS]

  Dropbox for now and and as you said the [TS]

  network effect it's the reason you know [TS]

  you're using it because everyone else is [TS]

  using it is this the way people [TS]

  collaborate and that's this difficult [TS]

  overcome ok see what should I do I think [TS]

  you should take off your tinfoil hat [TS]

  you should reinstall Dropbox and and [TS]

  when we all get all of our data stolen [TS]

  and leaked then you can blame me cool [TS]

  thanks for our three sponsors this week [TS]

  Warby Parker Squarespace and away and we [TS]

  will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin cuz it [TS]

  was accidental oh it was accidental John [TS]

  didn't do any research Marco and Casey [TS]

  wouldn't let him cuz it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental and you can find the [TS]

  show notes today T P dot F M and if [TS]

  you're into Twitter you can follow them [TS]

  at CAS II WA L is s so that's Casey Liz [TS]

  M a are Co AR m auntie Marco Arment and [TS]

  I are DC USA Syracuse [TS]

  Tech [TS]

  ah so what's the drama with your switch [TS]

  scenario at home because we were talking [TS]

  the relay chat if it seems as though you [TS]

  are in an impossible predicament where [TS]

  you would like to buy another switch but [TS]

  they're deep penalties for doing so yet [TS]

  if you don't buy another switch you will [TS]

  never play the switch because Tiff's [TS]

  basically is taking it over I thought [TS]

  you're gonna talk about him putting the [TS]

  little sliding thing on the joique on [TS]

  the wrong way well there's that too but [TS]

  I was setting up Mario Kart for kids I [TS]

  was trying to why you can't have nice [TS]

  things yeah why does it go on the wrong [TS]

  way if it if it locks it there plus goes [TS]

  to plus minus goes to one is matches [TS]

  match the shapes I didn't notice that at [TS]

  first though in Marcos defense I did [TS]

  eventually notice that + + + - - but at [TS]

  first I did by well and I wasn't using [TS]

  the wrong one for the controller I was [TS]

  using the correct one but backwards I [TS]

  know but but you didn't you didn't match [TS]

  up the symbols they go next to each [TS]

  other why does it go on backwards yeah I [TS]

  like that you had to resort to a YouTube [TS]

  video to get out of it like basically if [TS]

  there was no internet you would be at [TS]

  home staring at this like you've staring [TS]

  at your broken toy being like do you [TS]

  want to rethink your ordering from [TS]

  earlier now no I hey oh yeah I really [TS]

  was about to get a screwdriver and start [TS]

  disassembling it to try to get this [TS]

  thing off because like I remember I [TS]

  forget which one they were like two or [TS]

  three [TS]

  samsung phones ago where like if you put [TS]

  the stylus in the slot the wrong way it [TS]

  would just it would just get stuck in [TS]

  there forever like why like why is the [TS]

  switch design in such a way that you can [TS]

  so easily attach these two very commonly [TS]

  attached parts in the wrong direction [TS]

  and when you do it gets stuck really [TS]

  hard I think the switch hardware is not [TS]

  Nintendo like in so many ways that it is [TS]

  yeah delicate and fragile and you can [TS]

  easily do the wrong thing and like it is [TS]

  it is weirdly non it's not like Nintendo [TS]

  doesn't have a history of making [TS]

  portable devices just look at the huge [TS]

  history of portal devices and almost all [TS]

  of them are rugged to the point of [TS]

  fisher-price nests and very difficult to [TS]

  do something wrong with like the [TS]

  original fire wire connector is [TS]

  supposedly was inspired by the Game Boy [TS]

  Connect thing of having you know it was [TS]

  novel the time connector can only go [TS]

  incorrectly one way and they can be [TS]

  plugged unplugged lots of times and [TS]

  still be sturdy [TS]

  and then the switch comes along and it's [TS]

  I mean it kind of started switching to [TS]

  it in the Wii U was making stuff glossy [TS]

  to try to make it look more sort of pro [TS]

  and fancy I'm not going to say Apple [TS]

  like but like less pressure price like [TS]

  let's say for the Wii U and like the Wii [TS]

  U pro controller especially the glossy [TS]

  black model being the high end and the [TS]

  switch is just like what is this a Sony [TS]

  device like it looks Sonia shit looks [TS]

  like you know a PSP right right down to [TS]

  the the the delicate little bits that [TS]

  seem like they could break off and the [TS]

  ability to put things on backwards it [TS]

  should never be possible to do that it [TS]

  should be super rugged but you know but [TS]

  it is fun to make fun of Margaux for [TS]

  doing that but he doesn't follow gaming [TS]

  websites oh he doesn't he didn't see the [TS]

  8,000 stories when the switch was [TS]

  launched about putting those things on [TS]

  backwards [TS]

  yeah you're right exactly so I just did [TS]

  it tonight as I was trying to set up [TS]

  these controllers for two kids to play [TS]

  Mario Kart with us and yeah it was it [TS]

  was tough anyway but besides that I am [TS]

  greatly enjoying the switch because now [TS]

  Mario Cart came out and I'm having so [TS]

  much fun with this suction credibly fun [TS]

  game and if you are the kind of video [TS]

  game person who has already played it on [TS]

  the Wii U like John it's not much new [TS]

  for you 60 frames per second but as [TS]

  somebody who hasn't played Mario Kart [TS]

  since the Nintendo 64 version hey buddy [TS]

  right it is so much fun and so I really [TS]

  am quite enjoying this and it really [TS]

  literally is fun for the whole family [TS]

  we like now Adams playing and and like [TS]

  other the auto-steer or like the kind of [TS]

  bumper cars version of it that jon was [TS]

  complaining about last week is indeed a [TS]

  problem when adults are playing and you [TS]

  don't realize little antennas in the [TS]

  back of their car but the the [TS]

  combination of that and the automatic [TS]

  acceleration is awesome for having small [TS]

  children play because they can play with [TS]

  the whole family and not be too too far [TS]

  behind not get themselves stuck and have [TS]

  to try to show them how to reverse and [TS]

  like it's it's really nice and and in [TS]

  addition to it just being a really fun [TS]

  you know mario kart racing game for for [TS]

  adults when they're playing it in like [TS]

  the normal or hard modes I'm just having [TS]

  so much fun with this game the only [TS]

  downside [TS]

  this game is that I'm going to have to [TS]

  buy more Pro controllers probably so [TS]

  it's going to cost a lot of money that [TS]

  way and also the switch is still mostly [TS]

  being dominated by Tiff's and Adam [TS]

  playing Zelda as it should be [TS]

  and I also thought like you know what it [TS]

  like there will be times when I want a [TS]

  second switch dock so for instance like [TS]

  when we go to a beach house in the [TS]

  summertime or we have a but we have a [TS]

  second TV in our in our playroom and [TS]

  like so maybe somebody's using the main [TS]

  TV but when I'm playing a small screen [TS]

  maybe I want to play on it back there [TS]

  let me see if I can get a second dog how [TS]

  much could it cost 40 bucks nope 90 [TS]

  bucks another story that if you had read [TS]

  the gaming press you would have seen a [TS]

  million OVA on around lunchtime or when [TS]

  the prices were announced people were [TS]

  shocked people also shocked by the way [TS]

  with how much the pro controller cost [TS]

  yeah yeah that's like 70 right I have to [TS]

  them now and it's I pay way too much [TS]

  it's like it sounds like and so I [TS]

  started doing some research of like you [TS]

  know if I want a second doc and it's $90 [TS]

  and a new switch is only 250 that comes [TS]

  with it 300 oh is 300 and it's hard to [TS]

  know with the real prices this is the [TS]

  jump that Marco makes very quickly $90 [TS]

  300 they're basically the same [TS]

  Ryan years makes no difference well it's [TS]

  like it will you know do I need more joy [TS]

  kansai I thought I was gonna need one a [TS]

  few hours ago because I thought I broke [TS]

  one of mine so so I'm like so I started [TS]

  adding it's a funcle' actually this [TS]

  isn't that ridiculous that maybe we [TS]

  should just get a second switch that [TS]

  wait if can play Zelda on the main TV [TS]

  and I can go in the back room play Mario [TS]

  Kart and then I can take one when I [TS]

  travel to everybody cientific and stay [TS]

  here and play with that on everything [TS]

  else so I started asking around with [TS]

  friends like John of like how does that [TS]

  actually work with like game transfers [TS]

  and like I bought this game to digitally [TS]

  I don't have cartridge for any of them [TS]

  on John's advice which in most cases is [TS]

  good and that was the right decision no [TS]

  no no the carts won't save you like even [TS]

  if you had held on a cart and you [TS]

  plugged into the other thing the save [TS]

  date is not on the cart so it's not [TS]

  helping you right so so basically I'm [TS]

  basically running into all of the issues [TS]

  of being a Nintendo fan that in tendo [TS]

  fans have been yelling about for like 10 [TS]

  years and I which is that really a part [TS]

  of it I was [TS]

  out of I was kind of out of the game so [TS]

  to speak for all that time and now that [TS]

  I come back in from Mario Kart and I'm [TS]

  like man wouldn't it be great if I had a [TS]

  second system or first first let me just [TS]

  get a second HDMI doc Wow that's [TS]

  expensive okay let me get a couple more [TS]

  controllers my god those are expensive [TS]

  oh well I'd well I bought my games [TS]

  digitally let me see if I could just [TS]

  download onto a second console wow that [TS]

  system kind of sucks it is very limited [TS]

  okay how about our save game will that [TS]

  transfer nope that won't it's like to [TS]

  put all the things again like Nintendo [TS]

  fans this is not news to anybody who's [TS]

  been a Nintendo fan forever [TS]

  but because I haven't been this is this [TS]

  is all new to me [TS]

  yeah well take issue with one thing John [TS]

  just said though that the cart wouldn't [TS]

  help it would help in getting the [TS]

  software between the two devices I agree [TS]

  it will not help in any way shape or [TS]

  form with save but it will absolutely [TS]

  help with getting the game in between [TS]

  the devices quickly and easily without [TS]

  it without any sort of fuss well you can [TS]

  it can only be activated on one device [TS]

  but I bet if you download it onto both [TS]

  you could just like activate deactivate [TS]

  I don't know I've never tried it in [TS]

  theory it might be better but I really [TS]

  would not relish the idea of taking [TS]

  those tiny little cartridges in and out [TS]

  and walking them back and forth from [TS]

  even just within your house because talk [TS]

  about something that could easily get [TS]

  like vacuumed up or eaten by a dumb dog [TS]

  or all sorts of other things that can [TS]

  happen to a dog's aren't smart then also [TS]

  when it comes to things that the shooter [TS]

  shouldn't be eating let's say having a [TS]

  my dog [TS]

  particularly loves cat poop so you know [TS]

  the the the bad tasting Nintendo [TS]

  cartridge forget it they also don't chew [TS]

  and apparently don't taste things so [TS]

  it's like one swallow and it's gone yeah [TS]

  I wouldn't relish doing that and I yeah [TS]

  I don't know what's worse is the having [TS]

  it downloaded on both of them but I only [TS]

  active on one versus carrying a cart [TS]

  back and forth uh you are way over [TS]

  blowing the difficulty of the cartridge [TS]

  I have cartridges for both Zelda Mario [TS]

  Kart and I have to swap between them [TS]

  when I want to play different games and [TS]

  you are way way way over blowing how [TS]

  difficult it is to keep track of no I'm [TS]

  saying if you're walking across the [TS]

  house like which room is it in from one [TS]

  for one side to the other and just wait [TS]

  until Declan d-twah knows gardening I [TS]

  think you're making a mountain out of a [TS]

  mole my house isn't that big [TS]

  no the transfer between the two places [TS]

  means you're not sure which location it [TS]

  is which means you're not sure [TS]

  this period which means you can get lost [TS]

  they're very tiny I mean if it was an [TS]

  n64 Kart you'd be okay but these are not [TS]

  64 cards [TS]

  fair enough yeah I don't know I I will [TS]

  say though that I've been deeply [TS]

  enjoying both Mario Kart and Zelda and [TS]

  much to my own surprise I have I have [TS]

  almost as much time in Mario Kart as I [TS]

  do in Zelda and I think that comes back [TS]

  to what I believe I was saying on this [TS]

  show might have been analog that I just [TS]

  find it much easier to just kind of pick [TS]

  up Mario Kart and play where to me yeah [TS]

  we were talking about on the show where [TS]

  Danny Zelda's not quite so simple [TS]

  because I am not good at video games and [TS]

  so I need the context you don't have [TS]

  what it takes to save Hyrule's where [TS]

  you're getting it probably just to go [TS]

  the world just gonna go unsaved yeah [TS]

  that's correct you're gonna say well it [TS]

  seems like a lot of work to save the [TS]

  world when I just go run in circles few [TS]

  times in this kart racing game right [TS]

  yeah to me as somebody who's only [TS]

  watched Zelda and not actually played it [TS]

  because I I really am NOT into that kind [TS]

  of game at all to me it's like sitting [TS]

  down for watching an epic film versus [TS]

  like watching a quick youtube video for [TS]

  fun but like I said this Zelda is the is [TS]

  incredibly easy to pick up and do a [TS]

  small amount of things I don't think [TS]

  you'll actually ever finish the game by [TS]

  sitting them in small amount of things [TS]

  but it is it doesn't force you to say [TS]

  I'm going to do the next dungeon like [TS]

  the old Zelda games that you can do a [TS]

  very small amount of things pick up at [TS]

  any time do a little thing and stop and [TS]

  the way it this is one thing that and [TS]

  kind of has actually finally gotten [TS]

  right the way you can put the system to [TS]

  sleep and it wakes back up and you're [TS]

  like literally back at the exact second [TS]

  you put it to sleep it sounds like you [TS]

  something you would take for granted but [TS]

  it is taking in 10 - this long to [TS]

  successfully do that that makes it so [TS]

  much easier to take up I mean even just [TS]

  for me like I will pick up the switch [TS]

  this is the main time of using portable [TS]

  mode like and do my amiibo random reward [TS]

  thing because it's just easy to do [TS]

  turned on I'm exactly where I left off [TS]

  hit a button hit the little NFC thing [TS]

  open up my chest see what I got put it [TS]

  back to sleep there's no way I would do [TS]

  that if I had to boot it up or load a [TS]

  game or wait for a long turning on [TS]

  sequence or something like that and [TS]

  again it sounds like stuff you should [TS]

  take for granted the other modern [TS]

  consoles have done forever but now [TS]

  Nintendo is find in that aspect we're [TS]

  just still waiting for them to [TS]

  understand how the hell this crazy [TS]

  online thing works [TS]

  because they haven't figured it out yet [TS]

  do you guys have your switches nearby by [TS]

  chance no it's in the other room oh you [TS]

  suck [TS]

  what are you to play now no I would [TS]

  never do that to hone your games Tony CC [TS]

  comes Auto unlocked in this right yeah [TS]

  everything almost everything is unlocked [TS]

  from the start like all the tracks as [TS]

  far as I know right it's too easy all [TS]

  the characters the only the only things [TS]

  like some of the tires and stuff you [TS]

  need to unlock yeah although that is [TS]

  disappointing I've I haven't spent [TS]

  enough time in it unlock oh my favorite [TS]

  write the card I usually uses the f01 [TS]

  they have like a little at zero low yeah [TS]

  I have that one the Blue Falcon I think [TS]

  yeah some other ones I like and I think [TS]

  I haven't unlocked it yet but no in the [TS]

  original Marik car that you had to [TS]

  slowly unlock things and a lot of the [TS]

  things were DLC like a lot of the [TS]

  additional tracks but this is all the [TS]

  DLC and everything unlocked except for [TS]

  some of the card stuff and 200 cc 200 [TS]

  didn't even exist in America it for a [TS]

  long time that was think part of a DLC [TS]

  pack 150 was stopped so I three start [TS]

  all of 150 and 200 cc came out and I was [TS]

  like now I'm not doing that [TS]

  but I've three start a couple of them [TS]

  and 200 cc I don't think I'm going to do [TS]

  all them I love one of my favorite [TS]

  things about Mario Kart as somebody who [TS]

  was out of it for so long is that if you [TS]

  are familiar with the Nintendo 64 [TS]

  version and its mechanics and the way [TS]

  the vehicles handle and the controls and [TS]

  how you you know how the weapons handle [TS]

  how you like can hold on to stuff behind [TS]

  you and how you do the jump and skid [TS]

  thing and how you can hold the skid and [TS]

  everything I was like all of that muscle [TS]

  memory translates perfectly like [TS]

  everything still handles pretty much the [TS]

  exact same way it still feels like that [TS]

  game and so you're able to others I was [TS]

  able to jump in and and pretty much know [TS]

  how to play immediately and actually I [TS]

  can say the same thing for for Tiff's [TS]

  and for some of our friends who have [TS]

  played it like everyone I've seen pick [TS]

  up this game has just immediately gotten [TS]

  it because we all played the n64 version [TS]

  back in the day and it just it's it it [TS]

  handles the same way like it's it's our [TS]

  it's new but familiar it doesn't handle [TS]

  the same way [TS]

  it totally does by any stretch of the [TS]

  imagination no I mean like it is is the [TS]

  same conceptually but like Bert yeah I [TS]

  don't know you need to be a very car [TS]

  connoisseur but America's handling it's [TS]

  so unlike the n64 one [TS]

  which is in turn is unlike a double - [TS]

  maybe the closest you could say is the [TS]

  America it is a little bit like the Wii [TS]

  version but I I find the handling very [TS]

  very different shockingly different [TS]

  between those different versions of [TS]

  Mario Kart so much so that it's almost [TS]

  hard to believe that it the same game [TS]

  you know that they have like the same [TS]

  graphics everything you write the [TS]

  concepts are all the same the things [TS]

  you're doing it more or less the same [TS]

  but marikar day is a nice compromise [TS]

  between well I don't know it double - is [TS]

  my favorite in terms of handling that's [TS]

  how I wish all of them handled the Wii [TS]

  version was a little bit floaty the n64 [TS]

  version was a little imprecise and yet [TS]

  sprites going on there so it was a [TS]

  little bit of mess and there was a lot [TS]

  of hopping so it was very different [TS]

  there's no hopping just remember in its [TS]

  n64 hopping no hopping and eggless right [TS]

  but yeah Mario Kart 8 doesn't feel slow [TS]

  to use the Wii version it's not as [TS]

  snappy and precise as double - but I it [TS]

  is a nice compromise it it's like all [TS]

  round in the middle like nicely [TS]

  I don't nicely round it handling but it [TS]

  doesn't it doesn't feel as precise to me [TS]

  in terms of the racing as much as my [TS]

  favorites my only complaint about it is [TS]

  that when I first started playing it I [TS]

  was able to immediately figure out how [TS]

  to handle the cars and everything but I [TS]

  had a lot of trouble figuring out like [TS]

  you know what all these different tires [TS]

  do and what are the different air foils [TS]

  do and what is the deal with that [TS]

  because I still haven't really figured [TS]

  that out well so well and and also I [TS]

  didn't even realize like what what are [TS]

  the coins for like what are they what a [TS]

  coins do and like there's so much done [TS]

  so much help with it with your game [TS]

  right and so what so I don't want to [TS]

  just search for because the first thing [TS]

  I want to know is like what are the [TS]

  actual like weight classes of these [TS]

  characters that I don't recognize [TS]

  oh wait classes that's not how it works [TS]

  and well and so so I went and found like [TS]

  there's a deal with IGN like wiki kind [TS]

  of thing that has all this all these [TS]

  numbers as iOS apps but now I finally I [TS]

  finally understand like all I took the [TS]

  20 minutes to read all that stuff and I [TS]

  read about the thing I like you know you [TS]

  gotta if you hop off of a jump you get a [TS]

  little boost and I figured out what the [TS]

  little anti-graft things were and how [TS]

  they worked and like all the stuff that [TS]

  like that everyone who's playing it just [TS]

  kind of knows - this is probably [TS]

  introduced over the last 7 years in [TS]

  various iterations of his game but I've [TS]

  you know I the last time I played was in [TS]

  64 version so that was a long time ago [TS]

  that didn't have things like coins and [TS]

  and jump you jump boost and and [TS]

  grab wheels and things like that so what [TS]

  is the deal with like the different [TS]

  wheels and in sales and whatnot like how [TS]

  does that empirically attract you guys [TS]

  both know how to show the stats which [TS]

  they frustratingly don't show by default [TS]

  and don't remember your preferences [TS]

  about oh I didn't know that when you're [TS]

  picking a car you hit the plus button [TS]

  say what it's it's another thing that [TS]

  annoys you of America it is they don't [TS]

  they don't remember your preference for [TS]

  that so every time you go to that screen [TS]

  you have to hit it the other thing I [TS]

  don't know if this is true America it [TS]

  deluxe what I'm pretty sure it is they [TS]

  when you hit the plus you will see the [TS]

  stats for the things and you'll notice [TS]

  that the wheels change your stats I [TS]

  don't know if wings change your stats [TS]

  but anyway not all some of the wings [TS]

  change your stats but they it's very [TS]

  minor waves but anyway like really you [TS]

  shouldn't obsess too much about that [TS]

  because it a lot of it comes down that [TS]

  use it to things here's my advice for [TS]

  picking stats when you are not good at [TS]

  the courses or not good at the game pick [TS]

  acceleration over anything else because [TS]

  if you will get are going to get hit or [TS]

  make a bad turn or whatever the most [TS]

  important thing is to get up to speed [TS]

  faster and if you also have difficulty [TS]

  and fault the course ladder aren't [TS]

  familiar with or whatever prefer [TS]

  handling alright so the fastest cars are [TS]

  the ones that have bad acceleration high [TS]

  top speed and handle slowly and those [TS]

  are the hardest to race and it will make [TS]

  you feel like you're worse at the game [TS]

  I've never really built up to the point [TS]

  where I liked using those and seeing [TS]

  speed rumors [TS]

  speed rumors [TS]

  use high acceleration low top speed [TS]

  things for the handling purposes it [TS]

  leads me to believe that those are a [TS]

  sucker's bet so a lot of them like wow [TS]

  great speed look at the top speed I'll [TS]

  use this thing like the big Mercedes car [TS]

  like the shiny gold one from one of the [TS]

  earlier mares huge top speed cruddy [TS]

  handling you will never get a good time [TS]

  with that you'll never win a race [TS]

  especially when the million items are [TS]

  flying at you so those are the stats I [TS]

  would look at handling acceleration and [TS]

  don't ignore speed because if you have [TS]

  decent handling acceleration and you use [TS]

  your boosts and that's the winning [TS]

  formula interesting I have to check that [TS]

  out you know you could do that and yeah [TS]

  hop hop on at you're off jumps yeah like [TS]

  it seemed it seems like the the [TS]

  character matters the most and in the [TS]

  car like is like a small multiplier on [TS]

  that and then the tires seem to be a [TS]

  smaller multiplier on that and then the [TS]

  wing has like a very slight modifier and [TS]

  don't forget about bikes yes so why [TS]

  should I use bikes or not used bike I [TS]

  haven't tried one yet I have never taken [TS]

  a shine to bikes but if my impression is [TS]

  that bikes have potentially different or [TS]

  better handling characteristics than [TS]

  cars I'm not sure what they give up I've [TS]

  just never liked what ever is different [TS]

  about bikes America or date I have not [TS]

  it has not worked with me I so I just [TS]

  ignore them pretend they don't exist I [TS]

  just do everything on cards but your [TS]

  mileage may vary usually I go the [TS]

  opposite way usually I play as Bowser [TS]

  and some kind of big heavy thing because [TS]

  I appreciate the high top speed that you [TS]

  were just let me not not to go for but [TS]

  you're handling this crap though yeah [TS]

  well III run off the track a lot but [TS]

  then I my top and I use it so long to [TS]

  get back up to speed but when top speed [TS]

  is ridiculous and I get to crash into [TS]

  anybody I want and nothing bad ever [TS]

  happens to me well bad things happen if [TS]

  you get hit with a shell I mean it's not [TS]

  anyway Mauser is probably good for like [TS]

  a nun if you don't were not racing with [TS]

  computers it was just a bunch of people [TS]

  because then you do have a lot of [TS]

  defense about like bumping people off [TS]

  the track and stuff like that but I [