The Accidental Tech Podcast

221: Personal Body Chemistry

 

  real-time follow-up as of approximately

  10 or so minutes ago I'm now an uncle

  hey congratulations eh

  do you intend to be a creepy uncle or a

  fun uncle or some other kind of I hadn't

  even thought about it but I mean you got

  to think about these things he's gonna

  try to be the cool uncle we already know

  that the question is the question is

  what is he going to be that is it that's

  true 100% that is 100% accurate I I wish

  I could deny it but that is absolutely

  accurate so I wanted to spend a moment

  and talk about the somewhat political

  section of our last episode and we got a

  lot of feedback we got a lot of good

  feedback we got a lot of bad feedback

  but one thing that was common that I

  think was on me that I wanted to

  apologize to listeners for is at one

  point in the heat of getting fired up or

  in the midst of getting fired up I'd

  said in so many words you know if you

  disagree with me you're a monster

  and name-calling is not really a

  constructive way to have a reasoned

  debate not to say that that debate was

  terribly reasoned anyway but

  name-calling does not really help the

  scenario and and you know if I'm gonna

  if I'm going to be grumpy about other

  people name-calling then I should be

  grumpy about me doing it and so no no

  snark intended I really do apologize for

  name-calling I stand by the general

  premise of what I said which is to say I

  think that some of the behaviors of

  those who who want to take away health

  care that is a monstrous behavior but

  that does not bind a zesty make somebody

  a monster so I know you guys can either

  confirm or deny everything I've just

  said but for what it's worth I feel bad

  about that and I wish I had handled that

  a little bit better despite by-and-large

  sticking by pretty much everything I

  said but the name-calling doesn't help I

  think you undercut yourself with the

  monstrous behaviorist thing because I'm

  not sure that distinction is

  particularly important but that like

  that and we don't usually talk about

  politics and show and I think we kind of

  accidentally talked about it which is

  fitting because it was not on a topic

  list and it was not slid right into it

  from wiki Tribune which was on the topic

  list and end up staying in the show

  unlike many other similar discussions

  but one of the main problems with

  anytime we get into

  politics is that for the most part the

  three of us are coming from the same

  place like we we agree on the issues and

  actually surprisingly difficult to talk

  about a controversial political issue

  amongst three people who all agree with

  each other and it's why we get the

  complaints of like you know echo chamber

  so and so for the good thing and the bad

  thing about podcast is even though it's

  just three of us talking about it and we

  all agree in aggregate it's not an echo

  chamber because believe me the opposing

  opinions are presented to us right so we

  just don't get them in real time it is

  delayed but that's not you know we're

  not doing a political debate show but

  but yeah so when we're all talking about

  and we all more or less agree we're just

  like saying things that each one of us

  agrees about there's not even that much

  nuanced or a disagreement and it just

  kind of spirals off from there and I

  don't I don't it's difficult to it's

  difficult to clarify our thinking on it

  when there is essentially no opposition

  on the podcast itself so that's that's

  difficulty I always feel when when

  engaging those enema and listening to

  them always trying to look for an angle

  that is illuminating rather than just

  the three of us venting which

  occasionally happens occasionally got a

  vent and occasionally we're feeling bad

  about things I'm surprised after the

  presidential election we didn't have a

  similar show somehow we avoided it but

  it came out last week

  I have no regrets I had a feeling but

  you know like in and out Lance says in

  the chat saying that the people are

  monsters is kind of productive and makes

  the argument sound dumb and I would

  agree with that so I am sorry for that

  that portion of the discussion the rest

  of it I pretty much stick by I think one

  thing that that is really badly missing

  in our culture is the ability to agree

  on some like you know cause and effect

  norms or like being able to talk about

  cause and effect without it being

  assumed to be or without being

  politicized cuz like you know if we you

  know like the health care debate it's

  like you know would like when I was

  saying last week about how like I want

  people to actually think through their

  arguments of you know like well how do

  we think people in society should be

  treated and how do we think you know the

  government should take care of people or

  not take care of people I wish we could

  talk about that in we as a society I

  wish we could talk about that

  at without it being so politically

  charged in people immediately jumping

  down each other's throats about their

  about like their identities because what

  we need to instead be able to talk about

  is like you know what how do we want to

  treat people in our society who need

  some kind of help

  hey you know how do we want the standard

  of that should be to be that we should

  just let people you know fail and die

  and starve or not and if the answer is

  not then how do we allocate these

  resources how do we pay for them and I

  wish we could actually talk about that

  but the second you you give an opinion

  either way on that whether you say I

  think society should help those less

  fortunate whether you think you know we

  should provide for people and we should

  like not let people fail too badly or

  starve or die or whether you think that

  we should just let people do all those

  things that shouldn't be a US Republican

  versus Democrat thing but it is and so

  it's hard to say like oh we should stay

  away from political topics or or that

  every view is valid when some of these

  views people on both sides think that

  it's not just politics that it's like

  base the basics of their identity or of

  human standards of decency and

  obligations to each other and it's not

  just political it's not like I think we

  should you know vote for the person on

  the red versus the person in the blue or

  whatever else it's like I want people

  who aren't like me to die or I want to

  help people and those shouldn't be

  political opinions those should be like

  this is the one that we teach ourselves

  and that we value because we're good

  people and this is the other one but

  apparently that's not what these things

  are but nobody wants people to die

  that's no no gonna say I'll save it ever

  they very much do I mean so that's

  that's it I don't want to get into it

  again but let's I feel like I can argue

  the other side pretty decently to like

  the old other side again I voted to like

  the 80s when they used to make arguments

  actually we all agree on what we want to

  accomplish is just a difference of

  opinion on how to best accomplish it

  right that debate is a lot easier to

  have what you're getting at is it

  doesn't feel like we're even unified on

  the goal but even though the

  consequences of these decisions may be

  real it's not connected in a straight

  line in terms of I want people who

  aren't like me to die like I I don't

  think you will get anybody to own that

  opinion anywhere well that's true but

  the problem is that people will will

  very strongly own opinions that precede

  that but if you actually follow them

  through the conclusions then that is

  that as a penalty so suppose somebody

  has a life-threatening illness that is

  treatable but they can't afford the

  treatment what should happen in this

  case should should our society find a

  way to pay for people in these kinds of

  conditions to get treatment or should we

  let them die that is that is a

  fundamental you know argument that that

  we have seemingly about every ten years

  and if you're on the side of we should

  help people it seems like you'd be a

  total monster to use Casey's word right

  it seemed to keep me a total monster to

  argue the other side of that to say like

  you know actually no we we should let

  people die like no that's but but that

  actually want them to die then want them

  they're not wishing them ill they wish

  that if they could snap their fingers

  and cure them they would say yes you're

  cured we should totally do that

  it's just unfortunate situation and

  there's just you know debating the best

  way to allocate scarce resources and to

  incentivize the right behaviors and blah

  blah blah like it we start shift into

  the more intellectual argument towards

  it but when you connect it up to like

  MAOIs like to say that people have

  malice towards that like it's not and

  get it ignoring the specifics of this

  thing

  more generally the other general topic

  on the political stuff is this happens

  the maze happens to everybody when

  you're listening to someone talk about

  something whether it's political or

  technological or anything on a podcast

  they will especially a things with two

  sides red-blue Mac PC whatever it may be

  you know the two-sided debate they will

  address a thing like people who support

  X are wrong because blah blah blah blah

  and if people support X are on a

  particular team and

  you were also on that team but you don't

  support X they'll say people is for X

  here's what I don't like about it and

  people will get offended to say well I

  don't support X but on the same team as

  the people support Xing because you're

  yelling at that person I feel you're set

  you're yelling at me and like it's very

  difficult to hold on to the the thread

  that says look if they are complaining

  about something that you don't believe

  they're not talking to you well you know

  I mean like that but but when there are

  two teams it's like what they're saying

  anything about my team even though I

  agree with them on this specific point

  it's like they're attacking my team and

  I feel attacked like are you trying to

  say that I believe X is like well if you

  don't believe X we're not talking to you

  and so like is this not addressed with

  you but when there's two teams when the

  two teams and it's on your team you

  can't help but get pulled into it and

  again that happens that happens with

  everybody especially with two sided

  debates or you know actual sports teams

  as the case may be where you can't can't

  wrap your mind around a player on your

  favorite sports team maybe did something

  bad but you really do love the sports

  team you try square that circle so when

  someone says hey that that person had

  smart team did a bad thing you say you'd

  be quiet he didn't do a bad thing and

  really in your heart of hearts you also

  agree did a bad thing but you love the

  sports team right so anyway that's a

  difficulty and when I'm listening to

  people talk about you know whether it's

  to like or dislike a particular movie or

  a director or a TV show or you know Mac

  versus PC things is very easy to think

  that they're talking about you or to you

  ascribing to you beliefs that you don't

  have when you have to realize it's a

  broadcast medium and no one is saying

  you specifically they're believed these

  things and if you don't then don't don't

  take on the burden of thinking that

  you're you're being reprimanded for

  something that you don't believe the

  good news though is that there are some

  universal truths of the world in

  speaking of sports there are universal

  truths like Bill Belichick is a cheater

  and Tom Brady really should not be

  playing football so anyway let's talk

  about the back of the iPhone at a monk

  morgue excuse me out of mark Wright's in

  to say my take on that rumor image with

  touch ID in the back is that it's a real

  schematic for a real prototype but it's

  only for testing there have been more

  leaked schematics with no touch ID on

  the back and I'm surprised that this has

  been debated in two episodes as an

  inevitability in my opinion this is Adam

  there is zero chance at Apple

  as a phone with such ID in the back it's

  too big of a paradigm shift in form and

  function Apple has done more work for

  far less in the past I'd bet a lot of

  money it's under the screen at launch it

  really feels like a deal breaking

  feature they would wait for so I think

  to be clear none of us were saying that

  was inevitability merely that this was a

  supposedly thing and that we could all

  conceive of Apple releasing such a thing

  now obviously it would be not the ideal

  and obviously you know plan a is the

  thing under the screen but we were

  discussing it was like what if they did

  what if they couldn't get onto the

  screen would they put it on the back

  like obviously Apple doesn't want to

  they want to do that thing on the screen

  it's totally cool right but I you know

  as I said when we first started talking

  about this I believe it is a thing that

  Apple would do because if the choice is

  between doing that and not having a new

  phone form factor at all they would

  totally do that but I also totally buy

  this you know but this is not a

  slam-dunk this is just a random drawing

  that could be totally fake and as I said

  we'll find out when the real phone is

  released and we look at the millimeter

  sizing and if I got it down to three

  decimal points chances are that it was

  at the very least a real leak or

  something manufactured based on the

  knowledge of what the phone would be

  like but yeah could be a prototype it

  could be just a testing thing it's hard

  to think of it being a prototype like

  that because it would take a lot of

  stuff to move around the touch ID to the

  back even just for testing because

  there's a bunch of other crap there on

  the phone but anyway for my part I'm not

  tied to any one of these particular

  rumors and obviously the the plan a in

  terms of rumors and in terms of what

  what Apple would want to do is a thing

  in the screen and so that's what I'm

  certainly hoping for but if it doesn't

  arrive and the thing is on the back we

  won't all be flipping out because I feel

  like we will be acclimated to that idea

  through these leaks all right let's talk

  about dirty fabric on laptops sure let's

  this this is this is a little bit of an

  odd more than a little bit of an odd

  thing so to set some context the surface

  laptop has Alcantara is that how you

  pronounce it I just avoid it just just

  avoid it like we avoid all the words we

  can't pronounce just avoid it and so it

  has some sort of fabric e leathery

  something rather on it and that is to my

  understand

  ending including where your wrists sit

  and that seems to me to be a really poor

  choice for any human being of any kind

  because I remember having a poly book hi

  Steven Hackett which is to say a white

  polycarbonate MacBook and I had to take

  a mr. Clean Magic Eraser to that thing

  like once every couple weeks um or deal

  with all of my wrist gunk and sweat and

  whatever and oils turning that thing

  Brown and it was gross and that's

  plastic

  imagine fabric and so there's a link to

  what does this be a boy genius report or

  something like that I don't remember BGR

  stands but it's trans booger Oh fair

  enough

  so uh we have a link to something and

  they show an example of a surface with

  or it appears to be a surface keyboard

  with some really gross crystals all over

  it because clearly it's been used a lot

  and that just strikes me as a poor

  choice but I don't know maybe I'm

  missing something what do you guys think

  when we talked about the fabric on the

  surface laptops last show I was

  concerned about the edges fraying and

  like the difficulty of sort of mating

  that material but it more broadly as

  this dirty fabric issue brings up a

  laptop is something that gets a lot of

  contact does even though you're not

  supposed to rest your wrist when you're

  typing people do and you know people's

  hands and wrists are going to be in

  contact with this thing very very

  frequently during use and for anything

  like that it's a good idea to make it

  out of a material that is durable or

  washable or ideally both because there

  is gunk on our hands and it is going to

  come off and I go on to the thing that

  we're touching and there needs to be

  some plan for that so on the iPhone

  screens a they're made of glass which is

  very you know hard material easy clean

  and B they have that coating that tries

  to repel oil so that when you do try to

  wipe all your gunk off it will come off

  easily and that's a good plan for the

  front of cell phone that you're going to

  be touching all the time

  similarly for the track pads on Macs I

  think we all remember the original track

  pads before they were glass there were

  you know various kinds of plastic and

  over time the track pads would get kind

  of shiny and slippery and warned down

  and discolored

  on the particular parts that you that

  you touch them moving to the glass

  trackpad really help solve that problem

  to keep it sort of uniformly colored and

  textured easy to clean because it is a

  part that you're touching all the time

  same thing with key caps making them out

  of hard plastic figuring out how to make

  key caps so that the letters and numbers

  don't come off I'm sure we have all met

  somebody who is some strain of X person

  which means that they secrete oils from

  their bodies that where the letters off

  of key caps right some people just have

  I don't know it's if it's acidic or

  otherwise solvent-based secretions from

  their fingertips that will defeat almost

  any keyboard and leave their key caps

  perfectly smooth and featureless but

  it's a challenge to wait people have

  acid fingers that's awesome I don't know

  if it's actually acid all I know is that

  some you know if you look at some

  people's keyboards they will have the

  exact same keyboard as you and all the

  letters will be gone from like the home

  row or like the e key and the return

  stuff and you're like look I'm using the

  same keyboard to you for the same period

  of time there's always some difference

  in our body chemistry that is causing

  this tab which is fine like whatever but

  the job of making keyboard is to make it

  easy to clean and make the little you

  know letters resist wearing off for a

  laptop to cover it in fabric fabric

  falls down and almost all these

  categories it is not easy to clean

  because anything that gets in there goes

  down into the weave or whatever and to

  really watch fabric you put it in the

  washing machine if you're lucky that

  does a good job but you're not putting

  your laptop in the washing machine so

  you've got a problem already

  to wash fabric you need moisture you

  like you need like liquid which unless

  you're Casey that's not going anywhere

  near your laptop yet and you know it

  still needs to pass through it like it

  wasn't like I'm just going to go on the

  surface and you want to make it so that

  whatever does get on it comes off easily

  you know and the the surface stays the

  same if you have it in from year-to-year

  and the fabric fabric wears down in

  phrase and can get thin and you know rub

  through in spots and so on and so forth

  so it is not a great solution for

  anything that you're going to handle

  that much I mean even even clothes wear

  out because they're made of cloth we put

  on our body eventually you get two holes

  in the knees and holes in the pockets

  and you know they just fray and like so

  it is definitely a material that you

  can't treat the same way you

  retreat even even Casey's plastic Abba

  and one of the problems with it with the

  plastic iBooks was they were white and

  they had some discoloration issues that

  may not have been noticeable if they

  were like a boring gray or if you know

  if they could if the plastic could be

  formulated differently if it was a

  different color but they were like very

  white and translucent and that was a

  problem I think they probably could be

  cleaned pretty easily I don't know if

  they were porous or what but an even for

  the very what the black book also had

  similar problems with the texture the

  surface texture going eventually Apple

  settled on materials that are pretty

  darn resilient the aluminum and the

  finish they put on the aluminum it's not

  super glossy you know it's like it's

  it's a finish that will stay looking the

  same for pretty much the life of the

  thing and combined with the glass pack

  trackpad and good key caps in the glass

  screens you can have a Apple laptop that

  looks more or less the same plus or

  minus dents and maybe scratches but in

  terms of color discoloration and finish

  many many years later one of these

  fabric-covered things I think no matter

  how careful you are depending on your

  personal body chemistry and amount of

  crap on your hands not literally but

  maybe literally like it's going to be

  very difficult very very difficult to

  keep this thing looking like new with

  unwashable fabric coating the surface

  where your hands are going to be so

  perhaps not a wise choice is a

  differentiator it is a style difference

  as I mentioned last show I think it's a

  style difference that doesn't go far

  enough because it essentially looks like

  an Apple laptop and someone put put a

  bunch of felt on top of which I think

  it's not a good look and B I think is

  apes Apple's design cues still too

  strongly despite the fabric anyway be

  careful out there with your fabric

  covered laptops one thing I will also

  point out I was thinking about this

  earlier today and as Casey's talking

  about the plastic MacBook it kind of

  reminded me of this that you know it

  wasn't that long ago that most of

  Apple's lower end or consumer grade

  products were plastic and that you had

  to pay it like pay more to get the

  premium Pro ones that were metal and for

  all the complaining I do about some of

  Apple's product decisions or apathy or

  various things there you know nearby

  there

  the move to pretty much everything being

  made of premium materials is appreciated

  that is something that not every brand

  does in fact no other brand does it as

  far as I know in computing every laptop

  like every every Mac that Apple sells is

  now made of metal every phone now like

  is made of you know decent metal and has

  a decent g├╝strow design like there are

  no more like cheap plastic options that

  unless I'm forgetting something big but

  as far as as far as hell there aren't

  any everything now is made of the nice

  materials that you know for the most

  part that age well and things like that

  so Apple TVs plastic right oh yeah but

  you don't touch that or move it anyway

  is it's nice-looking plastic and you

  totally don't touch it yeah same deal

  with time capsule thanks tip story I

  forgot the time capsule everybody forgot

  about the time capsule yeah Apple

  forever the time capsule but they don't

  sell it they're out of the router

  business I think they still are for sale

  I think they just weren't going to make

  more of them really yeah anyway it

  doesn't matter anyway so yeah just nice

  little note that it's nice that now

  everything is made of good materials

  some of the camera mention the iPhone 5c

  which is my immediate thought with

  plastic I think the iPhone 5c is it

  shows that plastic can look and feel

  premium because I think the 5c was great

  design a great external designer phone

  every time I see them in public

  they look like they're brand new like

  you know it's just very hard durable

  shiny probably really easy to clean

  plastic that doesn't get dirty right so

  it can be done and you know you

  mentioned the Apple TV it's a similar

  type of thing that even people were

  handling that I think would be very

  resistant because if we just make it out

  of like plastic is not just one material

  it's a million different formulations

  and Apple sort of learned the hard way

  which formulations do and don't work

  from the soft plastic on the screen of

  the first iPod Nano you know to the

  discoloring mac books and other

  materials they tried like the titanium

  power book that had problems with the

  paint staying on like they eventually

  set it on a solution that works well and

  they've spread it throughout their line

  which is a good idea but I'm not going

  to count out plastic entirely but I

  think I'm gonna kind of can out fabric

  entirely that's something that you want

  to put the quote-unquote wrist rest area

  of a lap

  as I like no matter how you know you go

  to the furniture store and they say

  we've got the magic coating that repels

  water and you can throw like jell-o

  pudding on this couch and nothing will

  happen and that's true until that

  coating wears away and then you know

  that then you know it's anything that

  you're going to rub something up against

  it's just it's not going to last

  so I suppose they could work on was that

  Simon izing or whatever all sorts of

  SuperDuper waterproofing coating for

  fabrics but a that they make the fabric

  feel more like plastic at that point and

  be even those wear off eventually can I

  pay the extra fifty cents at the car

  wash to get it resized is that about I

  don't know what that I'm just pulling

  that board out of my head know where

  they came I believe that's wax at the

  car wash but I'm not positive yes I go

  through drive-thru car washes you know

  don't add me bro or whatever I can't

  believe you do that I wouldn't do that

  I'm sure Casey wouldn't I I decided I

  decided a few years ago after first

  doing it for cars that I didn't know

  better or didn't care and then I started

  getting nicer cars and people like you

  guys scared me into not going through

  automatic car washes and I didn't want

  to get my clear coat all swirly or

  whatever and the result of that was I

  had really nice cars that were always

  incredibly embarrassingly dirty if you

  live in upstate New York that's what

  you're supposed to have so instead I

  decided starting with with my current

  car I decided I'm not going to care

  anymore

  I'm just going to go through the car

  wash when I feel like it and my car has

  been way cleaner as a result and I don't

  care it's just the lease what do you

  care all the scratches that are getting

  from little little bits of grit that are

  on those flabby things scratching your

  car over the place it's not yours and

  honestly I don't really notice like I I

  know I know what to look for it is a

  little bit different now that my car is

  red it like it's way more notice one

  black on the red it's a lot less

  noticeable or it's noticeable I've fewer

  angles I guess so I don't care and most

  of the time from almost every angle my

  car looks better now that I'm going

  through car washes whenever I feel like

  it rather than when I would go like five

  months of that getting a car wash

  because I had to wait until I could go

  to the place it took an hour or when

  Casey visited pretty much oh to be

  blissfully ignorant again and you know

  it turns out maybe the black cars

  weren't so

  good idea moving on oh man am Archaea

  Banerjee and I'm sorry if I pronounced

  that wrong asks do you folks think that

  the popularity of touch input on Windows

  laptops could just be attributed to the

  terrible trackpads that given a good

  trackpad having a fridge toaster OS in a

  laptop form factors unnecessary I don't

  it's very hard for me to say because

  I've never had a touchscreen laptop and

  I've only ever used them a couple times

  and I found them very frustrating

  because I wasn't used to being able to

  touch the screen and maybe I grazed it

  accidentally and all of a sudden my

  cursor moved or maybe I was stabbing at

  it like a monster who knows but anyway

  because I've never really understood

  understood the appeal of it I don't

  think that it's a trackpad problem

  although I do know that Windows

  computers have just low fly terrible

  trackpads I think that people just

  genuinely do like having touchscreen

  laptops like anyone who I've ever spoken

  to who has a touchscreen Windows laptop

  pretty much every single one of them

  enjoys it and likes having the option of

  stabbing at the screen I don't get that

  it seems kind of kooky to me but that's

  pretty universally my anecdotal

  experience what do you guys think I mean

  we've all been around computers for a

  long time now we know that there are

  screen textures and non screen textures

  so maybe the screen texture is finally

  just one yeah close they don't touch my

  screen I know I agree with Daisy that

  yes they have travel track pads but this

  is a separate issue people like to touch

  the screen and I don't think they do it

  super duper often they just like the

  option of being able to do it because I

  mean just think of the generation it's

  going to grow up with the expectation

  that every screen is touchable to have

  one that's not just seems broken it

  doesn't mean that you're going to spend

  the vast majority of your time on your

  your traditionally laptop shaped piece

  of hardware stabbing at the screen I

  mean you're going to be typing on the

  keyboard you're going to be using the

  trackpad and every once in a while

  you're going to stab at the screen it's

  just all the piece and I think it mostly

  comes down to software like if the touch

  targets are frustratingly small as I

  think it would be if you just slap the

  touchscreen on a Mac that won't be a

  good experience but if you're using

  something like a modern version of

  Windows where a lot of the applications

  and parts of the OS make an effort to

  have touchable targets whatever it's I

  think it's fine and I don't think it has

  to do with the bed

  trackpads because honestly like we we

  track pet connoisseurs Marco in

  particular with his hatred of the forest

  trust trackpad maybe picky about these

  things

  regular people cannot distinguish

  between the worst windows trackpad and

  the best Apple one this because I mean I

  think I think most people have trackpad

  skills that are more in line with mine

  I'm not a tactical acquit I am not

  particularly graceful with the trackpad

  I think I'm closer to the average and

  being a closer to the average trackpad

  person I know how clumsy it feels and

  that is the overwhelming factor in

  trackpad use not the quality of the

  trackpad like or the mouse tracking or

  the size of the trackpad or how

  sensitive it is or whatever no matter

  how good the trackpad is I feel clumsy

  so I think that's how most people feel

  that's why if you were trying to put the

  to track bits maybe they would notice

  the Apple one is bigger but other than

  that they're like whatever they're both

  trackpad so no that's not the reason

  that touchscreens uh I think that's a

  little bit aggressive I think that

  certainly not everyone notices how far

  improved the Apple trackpads are but I

  think a lot of quote-unquote normal

  people do notice I certainly they notice

  the size just like you said but I think

  it's noticed more often than most

  offered people that are not like super

  nerds say to me oh you know I got this

  Mac and man that trackpads much better

  it doesn't happen a lot to your point

  but it does happen for sure it's kind of

  one of those things where if they

  haven't tried the better one they're not

  sitting there using their Windows laptop

  and you come from man how can you use

  that track Reggie like yeah it's fine

  now if you were to give them an Apple

  laptop per weekend they had to go back

  maybe they could tell the difference but

  it's I don't I don't hear it as a pain

  point I don't hear it is a reason people

  don't like their computers or if I go to

  have to use someone's Windows computer

  at work and I say to the person I don't

  know how you work on this trackpad

  they'll be like what what's wrong with

  it it's fine because they don't have

  anything to compare it to and it is is

  the same awkward little thing that

  they're just used to using or they just

  use the keyboard all the time don't

  forget the culture of being a Windows

  user which is like everything kind of

  doesn't work and so you just like that's

  what you expect as normal like you don't

  even realize how much better things can

  be when things work and our thoughtfully

  designed because on Windows you're just

  constantly like lying on a bed of nails

  and you don't even notice it after a

  while like that sometimes I go to

  something use someone's Windows laptop

  of work and they have like like four

  buttons like two above and two below the

  trackpad or some other weird arrangement

  or there's basically redundant left and

  right mouse buttons on the surface of

  the laptop and I'll try to do it and

  like nothing will happen like oh yeah

  that set of buttons doesn't work use

  these ones it continued to tolerate and

  use this thing you consider it not

  broken when some of the buttons and some

  of the major buttons on the front of it

  don't work you just get around you just

  have to use that button well no no what

  probably is happening there is it

  probably has both an inferior trackpad

  pointing device and the unequivocally

  superior TrackPoint style pointing

  device and the buttons above the

  trackpad are for the track point

  yeah banal and then oftentimes that'll

  get turned off because people are wrong

  and they use the trackpad instead before

  the entire world well actually is me

  remember that I'm basing this opinion on

  a pre gesture time now the gestures are

  a thing then trackpads honestly are the

  better approach but before gestures were

  a thing I tell you all you people who

  laugh at that little nubbin Mouse you're

  wrong it was way better anyway Corey

  Floyd wrote Syd wrote in to say that

  they work at Wikimedia and heard our

  latest show discussing like a Tribune

  project and they wanted to kind of not

  necessarily correct but bring up a few

  things

  whicka Tribune isn't affiliated with

  Wikipedia or Wikimedia in any way which

  has been causing some confusion in the

  media this is Corey still I think this

  mostly came across in your episode but I

  also wanted to include a few other

  interesting specifics below what

  contribute is based on WordPress not

  media weak wiki like Wikipedia and its

  sister projects additionally it is not

  actually developed or otherwise

  maintained by existing Wikimedia or

  Wikipedia community and finally

  Wikimedia also has an existing albeit

  unsuccessful project called wiki News

  which is in some ways a competitor to

  wiki Tribune in the first place and

  that's it wiki news org will put all

  these links in the show notes so I've

  got Jimmy Wales that is the connecting

  thread but don't be confused about the

  fact that this is a Wikipedia spin-off

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  another Amazon cylinder that isn't a

  cylinder thing came out and I really

  don't care so to somebody who actually

  gives a crap want to talk about this

  marker and I mean this is more of a

  three-dimensional trapezoid fair enough

  yeah good point this is a marker

  that you got we've got a quote from

  someone named Marco who wrote in to the

  show to say I'd upgrade our kitchen echo

  to this in a heartbeat he says looking

  at a vineyard picture of the actual echo

  show yeah

  so Marco have you upgraded your kitchen

  echo to this now that your heart has

  beaten no I haven't because it isn't out

  yet but I did place a pre-order and it

  will be hereon allegedly june 28th so we

  will see when that comes basically the

  gist of it is you know the the Amazon

  echo is is quite wonderful to many

  people myself included and my family has

  really gotten into it we use it all the

  time and it's it lives in our kitchen

  and it is wonderful for playing music

  around the house for setting timers

  especially while cooking TIF uses it all

  the time for things like checking the

  weather in the morning when running

  around getting Adam ready for school so

  it there are a number of use cases

  during the day where it would be nice to

  have a screen for instance the timers

  that I just mentioned it would be nice

  to see how much time is left to see them

  counting down if there ever becomes a

  way to set multiple named timers right

  now you can set multiple timers but you

  can't name them I'm pretty sure the

  Google home you can name them but the

  echo does not support that at the moment

  but again like when you have multiple

  timers going be nice to see them

  visually and maybe they have little

  touch buttons to pause or cancel them

  individually because right now it's kind

  of you kind of can't do it very well but

  via voice if you have multiple ones

  going when TIFF checks the weather in

  the morning first of all though these

  pictures show it kind of always have a

  like this home screen that has the clock

  and the current weather conditions on

  the screen all the time so that would be

  nice to do just not even have to ask at

  certain things if you're walking by you

  can glance at it and see the weather so

  there's all sorts of wonderful things

  like that where like many of the uses

  that we currently use the echo for would

  be nicer sometimes or all the time with

  a screen now there is a fair argument to

  be made why don't you just put an iPad

  like right there and just use an iPad

  all the time and enable the hey dingus

  feature on it and and just use that and

  that is a fair argument I have an iPad

  that sits right next to it that I you

  that I take around the first floor and

  please podcast

  while we do things but we really enjoy

  the Amazon echo ecosystem we enjoy the

  way the product works it works very well

  for us to have another echo come out

  that has a screen

  I am willing to give Amazon the benefit

  the doubt on this you know when the

  first came out we all made fun of it

  because they released this horrible

  video and it seemed so weird and creepy

  not to not the difference we mentioned

  last week for from the new echo look the

  weird like dressing-room camera thing

  but you know I I will give them the

  benefit the DAP because as weird as the

  first echo seemed because they were very

  bad at selling it or at promoting it and

  giving us an idea of what it would be

  like it turned out to be pretty great

  for a lot of people myself included and

  my family included also to point out -

  so there have been increasing rumors and

  increasing rumblings that Apple is

  probably going to release something

  similar to this rumors are that it might

  even come as soon as like next month at

  WTC keep in mind that if Apple does

  something like this which would be like

  a premium speaker with some kind of

  screen and some kind of built-in you

  know Siri thing how much is that going

  to cost because this Amazon thing is 230

  bucks and if you might see with them you

  get $100 off that's what I do backwards

  I figure so I will have a say you for

  the second one maybe four maybe we'll

  give it to you know our parents or

  whatever else there is no way that Apple

  is going to release a standalone speaker

  with a screen that is very iPad like

  possibly for $200 like that's not going

  to happen so this will be interesting to

  see like you know how Apple plays in

  this market and also again like you know

  it's going back to previous discussions

  about it like a lot of what makes the

  echo so good are things that Apple's not

  store eclis been so great at things like

  having a really easy to use open

  ecosystem to integrate really well with

  it things like having a really reliable

  voice service that is fast that is very

  consistent that works the same way every

  single time and here's you very very

  well every single time these are things

  that apples so far has struggled with so

  we'll see how that goes but I am

  optimistic about this this Amazon thing

  and to have this only be like 50 bucks

  more than the one without the screen

  is pretty impressive and yeah so I'm

  looking forward to when it arrives in

  June and look it might be terrible we

  don't know yet nobody has a review of it

  no one no one outside of Amazon as far

  as I know has gotten a chance to use one

  yet but again I think Amazon's track

  record in this particular area has

  actually been proven to be pretty good

  so we'll see what happens

  you mentioned before you thought it was

  a fair argument that buncher's have an

  iPad in your kitchen instead of this I

  don't think that's a particularly good

  argument because the iPad even setting

  aside software issues in terms of how

  well Siri understands it can respond to

  what you can do and how open the

  ecosystem is for adding you know various

  skills and actions that connect other

  devices in your house even just setting

  that aside just in terms of the hardware

  an iPad can't compete with this type of

  device in two of the three areas that

  are most important one speakers iPad the

  new iPads have very good speakers but

  this device is dedicating way more room

  for speakers so in theory again we

  haven't seen one of these in theory you

  can put way way way better speakers in

  this thing because it's just so much

  more room for quote unquote real

  speakers instead of very clever little

  cavities in your skinny little thing and

  playing audio to fill the whole kitchen

  or whatever is an important function of

  these types of devices and the second

  one is microphones the iPad has I think

  it has multiplex probably for noise

  cancellation but I think that's to the

  strengths of the echo is whatever weird

  five microphone beamforming BS it does

  to be able to you're fast how many eight

  eight I know anyway there's way more

  room for more microphones in this type

  of thing and again we don't know how

  many microphones this thing has but

  based on the the the echos that they

  have put out this is one of the most

  important function of this thing is to

  be able to hear you no matter where you

  are and the iPad the current iPads just

  don't dedicate that much hardware for

  that the third area where I think it

  feel like it can match it is in the

  camera because you didn't mention this

  but this doesn't just have a screen it

  has a camera and they're selling the

  kind of video conferencing thing who

  knows how that will go that's a whole

  sort of network effect the ecosystem

  type thing we may just still end up end

  up facetiming each other on our phones

  I do see why they

  added this and I think people will use

  it just not me yeah you get one to

  Grandma who doesn't who doesn't have an

  iPhone doesn't know how iPhones work and

  she can just come in front of this

  especially the drop end feature like

  where you don't actually where the

  certain time where your thing is open to

  just suddenly seeing you seeing these

  people on the screen you know like if

  you set this up with with relatives who

  are not tech savvy to just to be able to

  do video conferencing where you could

  you could never get them to use an iPad

  even that was too much for them if you

  just plot this down in their counter

  like I think that could be effective for

  that particular purpose yeah but for

  regular people I don't know but the

  camera again getting back to the the

  work all the look or the AV echo look

  over what the hell's it call that go

  scream was to call ago go look at go

  show echo show that's because every one

  things to podcast but now the other one

  talking about the look the fashion feel

  the worst names okay yeah that's that's

  called the look yeah so are saying last

  week that this this device category of

  computing devices in your home that have

  cameras that can see you has legs and

  here we have within the next week

  another device that grant from the same

  company that puts a camera in your house

  they could see you and does something

  with it

  both of them look like they have tiny

  little you know tablet type cameras so I

  think that's a wash in terms of the iPad

  competing with this but I would be

  looking for these type of devices the

  look and the show and other things like

  this to get increasingly sophisticated

  cameras they can follow you that made

  multiple cameras to synthesize an image

  with you know depth sensors and stuff

  like that because that's where these

  things are going to have more sort of

  awareness of what's going on they can

  project sound and video to you and they

  can be aware of where you are they can

  hear you roam at ur where you are and

  they could see you no matter where you

  are as far as I can tell from this one

  no it's easy when you're in front of it

  and that leads me to that all the things

  I don't like about this particular

  hardware product like if it is a fixed

  camera that's kind of crappy you hope

  it'll be smarter but again cost you know

  whatever this is the first original

  weight this thing is homely it's not

  it's not an attractive device yeah I

  will agree with you on that I mean but

  to be to be fair like the echo cylinder

  is also not very attractive I think

  that's pretty sleek and I think the

  cylinder has a thing going for it would

  be unobtrusive you could put it off the

  side although I do there's another

  reason why I like the

  the Google home now that I think about

  it because I was thinking about you know

  if we got an echo where would I put it

  the home is smaller than the echo and it

  is less obtrusive in the place where I

  have it but this you can't make this

  unobtrusive because it has to be a place

  where you can see the screen and it's

  it's not particularly attractive it

  black or white it looks kind of like a

  sort of retro 70s piece of hardware it's

  very it's very strange it just certainly

  doesn't look elegant it doesn't look

  like an Apple device anyway and it

  doesn't you know it has kind of sort of

  it's kind of like a Brutalism kind of

  like a rugged you know maybe soviet-era

  hardware yeah I guess it has has a

  certain appeal but and then finally this

  this thing is I can't really tell from

  the pictures but it's slanted back in

  all the pictures I see it's tilted

  backwards like the shape dictates the

  tilt it doesn't seem to have an

  adjustable tilt and for something that

  you're going to be looking at that's

  going to be looking back at you that

  seems just organically and practically

  speaking very limiting because the echo

  you can put literally anywhere that it

  can hear you like high low left-right

  just whatever it's fine this thing you

  need sight lines and you need to be able

  to see it and it needs to be able to see

  you and depending on how tall you are or

  how tall most of the people are even

  just being able to see kids and adults

  like how would you get that thing in a

  position where it can both where grandma

  can both see your you know kids that are

  half your height and you and even just

  if you're you know just living by

  yourself you have to put it on a surface

  where the camera can see you and you can

  see the screen which just like it seemed

  it seems like that it would have been

  better to design this to have a little

  bit more flexibility about angle and

  stuff again costs I understand like you

  can't have an adjustable stand or any

  kind of tilt thing that is any

  reasonable quality for this price point

  so like I'm willing to to give a lot of

  leeway there but this definitely it kind

  of reminds me of the first Kindle

  remember what a monster the first Kindle

  was oh that was that was something but a

  weird angular white thing with the weird

  terrible hardware keyboard on it it's

  like they took a lot of shots of that

  until they kind of settled down onto

  like the paperwhite which is kind of the

  epitome of the old-style Kindle and now

  they've gone by that weird things like

  thick on one edge and thin on the other

  they need to iterate on this one I'm

  sure they will although I say I'm sure

  they will but were they done to the

  Amazon echo it's still the same black

  cylinder it always was made

  just nail that one on the first try but

  I worry about the software your system

  too because once I start get into the

  realm of like video calling and stuff

  like that I think it's going to be

  difficult for them to compete with

  FaceTime this is basically what they've

  got here they've got their own little

  version of FaceTime and FaceTime for all

  of the wonkiness of like the weird

  patent thing that costumes have the

  restructure the way it's done and the

  fact that Steve Jobs impulsively said it

  was going to be opened up to the world

  and it ever was and all the things I use

  it for its intended purpose frequently

  and it works you know I mean I can

  successfully send video and audio to

  people the only limiting factor is ever

  crappy internet connections which is

  really nothing you can do about right

  because if you're trying to communicate

  with somebody was a crappy internet

  connection or you have a crappy internet

  connection it's not great but it will

  gracefully degrade to a black screen

  with just audio and also things it

  basically works and Amazon as far as I'm

  aware this is kind of their first foray

  into this I think did they do like kind

  of video support for one of the the

  color fire tablets maybe so maybe it's

  not not their very first thing yes yeah

  they had some kind of thing where it was

  it was like a screen sharing thing where

  you could wear like their support rep

  could like login to your tablet and show

  you how to do things or do things for

  you because I see them or do they see

  you I don't know I never I don't think

  I've heard anybody actually using this

  feature but they did have that kind of

  thing and again I think this is one of

  those things like Amazon you know

  similar to the to the like the the drop

  in thing was that what they call oddness

  where you can like kind of force call

  someone yeah it's the same as the Google

  like knock knock thing that we thought

  was a dangerous you know sort of thing

  thing for abuse but this is opt-in but

  but at least the way they're doing it

  yeah it's like it's update its whitelist

  only you know so and it seems like it's

  pretty well controlled but like I do

  give Amazon credit they have four years

  on their tablets and other products you

  know other like you know mainstream

  consumer products for years they have

  been adding features like that or like

  very good you know

  parental controls and like kids

  scheduling and everything else like

  features that that you really would

  expect it coming like Apple to do

  because that you know Apple so

  considerate and innovative and cares a

  lot about the customer experience and

  everything Amazon has really made a lot

  of these features over the years and and

  they can kind of get away with it

  because they're scale is so much

  like they like imagine the the staffing

  required if Apple were to do one of

  those things or they will log in to your

  computer with you and show you how to do

  things like that they would never in a

  million years be able to you know handle

  that on any kind of scale but but Amazon

  can do it because they're they're really

  at a much smaller scale for most these

  products as far as we're aware well

  that's true there's no labels in the

  y-axis they make a bunch of weird stuff

  and not all of it works but it does seem

  like III think they have they have

  earned the benefit the doubt in that

  some of their weird stuff is actually

  really good it's also weird that like I

  made a setting aside Apple which is has

  a strange history with these type of

  devices and just like being almost like

  stubbornly unwilling to enter markets

  even after it's proven they're they're

  viable just because it doesn't seem big

  enough to Apple they have different

  plans or they're pursuing other

  strategies and just in the meantime we

  get nothing and now maybe they're fun

  going to come out with one but like an

  apple that was doing the opposite of

  what it's actually doing the current

  Apple is reducing the number of things

  that it's not getting rid of the the you

  know the the routers and reducing trying

  to simplify its computer and phone lines

  and you know it's it's going the other

  direction but if it wasn't going in that

  direction it was expanding there's a lot

  of categories of devices that you feel

  like Apple could make a good one up and

  also Google both of these companies have

  the have all the pieces to be able to

  make a really good Bluetooth speaker a

  really good thing that listens to you I

  I would I would argue that I don't think

  we have seen great hardware from Google

  cool I mean Google hummus is fine we've

  seen lots of things that come kind of

  close and they always kind of fall down

  on the support they don't follow through

  or the products end up being delayed and

  not shipping or they have weird

  shortcomings or they only get an OS for

  like six months like Google I think

  Google has shown that they are really

  not set up to be a company that sells

  and supports their own hardware but they

  don't follow through but they have all

  the pieces to make it they have the

  server side component they can make

  reasonable hardware even if it's just a

  broken part chromecast shoved in a

  cylinder which is the Google home and

  the chromecast for that matter like that

  little Donnelly thing like I I agree

  with you that the follow-through isn't

  there but

  they have the pieces to make it happen

  like any company can make a Bluetooth

  speaker but once you start connecting it

  up to services not everybody has

  services google has tons of services

  Apple has enough services that you know

  you give Siri and and Google now and so

  like what's on the other end of this

  making it work right and so those simple

  categories of like wouldn't we have all

  you know loved if Apple made a good

  Bluetooth speaker and had been revising

  it over the years we would all give them

  an extra 50 bucks for the Apple one

  because it would be nice in some way if

  it was actually nice and the same thing

  for you know essentially a Bluetooth

  speaker with a screen the Siri that you

  can ask the weather that you know like

  the cheapest possible iPad shoved into a

  Bluetooth speaker thing with much better

  like Apple could have made this is what

  I'm saying Apple could make the exact

  echo show and who knows at WABC they may

  announce the thing they've made that is

  like this but better and has Marco said

  twice is expensive whatever but they

  haven't been participating in this

  market at all leaving other people to

  try all sorts of things and I supposed

  to gain loyalty and to build their

  ecosystems and someone is over to the

  point where I feel like Google so what

  happening they're like oh we should have

  a cylinder and so they do and maybe

  Google will try to come out with

  something like this too and just to see

  Apple sit on the sidelines it's it's

  fine if they are working on the next big

  thing but it may turn out that these

  little things build up the next big

  thing and if Apple's going to sit it out

  for much longer I think it's a mistake

  I'm curious to see what happens

  and I'll use me as an example if it

  let's say at WWDC they announced the the

  Apple equivalent of this tube thing I'm

  stumbling because I don't want to say

  any of the like trigger words and I have

  to have you believe them later but

  anyway it's called the Apple Alexa hey

  Siri yeah well you did this to yourself

  so anyway if Apple releases a a lady in

  a canister equivalent I'm curious to see

  what my reaction will be because sitting

  here now like again I don't doubt that

  the echo is very nice and that it serves

  a purpose for a lot of people and that

  I've no doubt Marco that you guys use it

  constantly and love it like that that's

  there's nothing wrong with that me I I

  don't feel like this is solving a

  problem that I have my life I said that

  many times before I'm curious as kind of

  a litmus test to how susceptible I am to

  whatever Apple tells me to do I'm

  curious to see what happens if Apple

  releases their own leading

  canister and what my reaction is to that

  because if I'm like well holy crap I've

  got to have one of these how could I've

  lived without it and it's really just a

  echo but Apple branded then apparently I

  really am a lemming and and it's all

  downhill from here

  in reality it would most likely be $300

  and you would say oh I don't want to buy

  this one I'll get the next one maybe and

  then inevitably I'll buy it anyway

  yeah it's six months later you'll have

  three of them speaking of a Google Alma

  miner Google home update they added a

  thing like let's you distinguish people

  by voice and so they can ask for you

  know tell me what my day is like and it

  will tell you your calendar by directing

  guising who you are so it's basic multi

  user functionality unfortunately no one

  ever asked Google home what's on their

  calendar because it's just not a thing

  that we do and so distinguishing us by

  voice is not particularly useful I think

  the only two voices and notice that this

  thing is mine and my daughter's because

  we are like the most frequent users but

  all that said I continue to be impressed

  by I mean it's basically this Google

  search behind the scenes because I'm

  always impressed by Google search when

  you do when you type in something in

  that search box and it somehow figures

  out what you mean and gives you relevant

  results that's the magic of Google most

  recent one is we were talking about

  something of dinner table and we're

  talking about a movie and and like was

  that release then or well you know what

  year was that released we could ask the

  Google home what year was the movie bla

  bla bla released and I didn't have to

  think about how do I have to phrase this

  in a way they can understand I don't

  even remember how I phrased it I just

  asked it the same way I would ask a a

  person with encyclopedic knowledge of

  movie releases who's sitting in the

  corner of the room and the thing spoke

  out the movie bla bla was released in

  March bla bla bla bla bla that to me is

  still magic because a it's exactly like

  Google search like I probably just

  turned it into into text and typed into

  Google search and then read me the top

  hit or something like that but the

  bottom line is it answered my question

  it wasn't just like a a general purpose

  like what's the weather what does my day

  look like I had a specific question

  about a movie about the release date and

  interesting just tell me the movie and

  list off like all the metadata let me

  tell you everything about this movie

  starring this person directly this

  person releasing I had to wait for the

  it just told me the release date of the

  movie

  and that I love that right and that's

  something that I feel like you can't do

  if you aren't backed by Google because

  the hard part is not hearing me in

  translating a text the hard part is

  figuring out what did you say and what

  did you mean and how do I answer you now

  for all I know that's a canned thing

  that they expect people to ask or

  whatever but the more of those I have

  the less I think I'm just getting lucky

  and happening to hit upon something they

  anticipated and especially coded support

  for and there's just like the magic of

  Google so what was the movie Speight I

  don't remember I hope it was too long

  ago but despite this by Google home I

  feel like it's still it's still not

  being revised as quickly as I would have

  hoped and its capabilities not expanding

  in the way that I hoped but just for the

  basic functionality of answering my

  questions let me have the dinner table

  and quickly settling arguments it's

  money well spent

  all right name a movie on 4 October

  there you go Alexa what year was the

  Hunt for Red October released the movie

  The Hunt for Red October was released in

  1989 it's magic there's been a lot of

  these queries where I will ask the echo

  one of the you know a question like this

  and the things that I will say will that

  that I think there's no way that it's

  going to be able to help me with this

  well it didn't because it's wrong it's

  the 2nd of March 1990

  really minor points morning-time DB that

  was the American really is that

  international versus you okay we'll hold

  on though lately when I thought to

  myself that didn't sound right to me

  you can ask similar questions about

  albums and songs and an artist or who

  sings the song whatever and all the

  lyrics search where you can name any

  lyrics in the song and it will figure it

  out I mean there's a lot of overlap

  between these things but like that that

  I think is amazing and like ask the same

  question say you know what is the

  release date for what year was it

  released you know when was it put out

  like just try different phrasings and

  see like eventually if you can stump it

  but it's pretty good well but basically

  so my point is I have asked it questions

  like this a number of times thinking

  that it would get it wrong the thinking

  that there would there be no chance

  that'll get it right and it gets it

  right about maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the time

  when I ask a weird question like that

  which is not only better than I expect

  but but is probably fairly similar to

  most of these things he probably even

  fairly similar how many how often Google

  gets it right like in my experience the

  the accuracy of search results between

  different search engines lately like I

  still use DuckDuckGo as my primary

  search engine Google like it turns out

  this this kind of stuff is actually not

  that rare to be decent at like there it

  is not just Google that can do these

  things like it is possible for other

  companies it you know in the case of

  like DuckDuckGo way smaller companies to

  be able to be competent at search just

  not Apple most of the time unfortunately

  but it is very possible for other

  companies

  remember Amazon had its own search where

  was I called a three it was called Alexa

  oh no yeah no Alex it was the rank right

  a three right eight a nine was was their

  search engine but it was anyway there's

  not a lot of them is Bing there's

  DuckDuckGo there's Google there's a 9

  which Raleigh no still exists Apple has

  never dipped its toe into this field I

  don't think they need to be that many

  people especially if it's like App Store

  Coffea level can't start to domain way

  smaller than the web in an efficient

  manner well I look see researches things

  right see like especially like on in in

  context like Apple TV or Apple music

  like well from Alfre know the Apple TV

  at Rosalie it's searching libraries of

  content you know and and the App Store

  is really just a really big version of

  that that should be way better than it

  is no it is not yes no it's so is it you

  know just occurred to me doesn't Amazon

  own IMDB now yeah they sure do yeah they

  don't so how could they have gotten this

  wrong if IMDB says it's 1990 you can't

  find anything on the IMDB website with

  your own eyes and hands so it's like

  whatever it I am to be is now at work

  hard at work obscuring the information

  you want to know about movies because I

  go to that website page number like just

  who played the main character and I'm

  just scanning and seeing I have to

  disclose something or click on something

  it's just tons of you know sound and

  fury signifying nothing

  I miss the old IMDB yeah I mean chances

  are like the Alexa was trying to find

  the answer on this page and just got

  blocked by all the ads oh oh yeah what

  one more one more thing in the echo show

  Marco is lucky busy has a fairly

  long kitchen I would have never infested

  my kitchen as much as I would like to

  have a thing like this that is I think

  another limitation for a divide I can't

  really tell how big it is from the

  pictures but certainly it is both wider

  than the echo and you can't like put it

  behind or nestled into a corner or

  whatever you has to be somewhere where

  you can see it well I think it actually

  might be fairly small because didn't

  people say it's a seven inch screen yeah

  maybe it's I'm its hardtail maybe it's

  smaller than it looks like but anyway

  you can't you can't nestle it in a

  corner or hide it somewhere you do need

  the space and the line of sight for the

  thing which makes me think that it could

  replace like a kitchen TV so if this

  thing started getting live TV if Amazon

  wanted to pull a YouTube what is the

  YouTube one YouTube TV and Hulu as a

  live TV oh everyone at Apple has a

  skinny bundle and a live TV offering

  that would be great thing to cooperate

  this is people do like little TVs in

  their kitchen to like watch cooking

  shows or whatever with like

  voice-activated DVR functionality they

  already showed like hooking cooking up

  to your like a you know baby cam to show

  your baby and your crib and stuff the

  potential for a smart screen with good

  speakers and a camera that's internet

  connected with good software in your

  kitchen that feels like a fruitful like

  it's a device that has been made a

  million times over if you're old and

  remember all like the the Audrey or the

  that three come the maybe that's the

  Audrey that I'm thinking of but that

  Sony is made with Sony was it the evil I

  don't know this there's been tons of

  like things like this and they were just

  then we're going to say they were ahead

  of their time they were ahead of the

  tech they weren't ready there was no

  ecosystem there wasn't the smart search

  behind it there wasn't a speech

  recognition there wasn't so often there

  wasn't the internet for the really old

  ones I feel like the time is now and I

  really hope that we see more of these

  devices from from the big the big three

  or four however many however you want to

  count it Apple Amazon Google and whoever

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  show ah

  [Music]

  all right so somebody has put something

  that I find actually somewhat terrifying

  in the show notes the show notes reads

  brief quiz I saw that earlier too and

  got a little bit scared of what I I knew

  immediately that it was John I mean come

  on yeah there was an article going

  around that hopefully you two were too

  busy this evening to read and follow the

  link for that involves a brief quiz that

  I think we should all take I have

  already taken it takes two seconds

  and so I will paste the URL into the

  chat room now what it is a thing that

  asks you to make a bunch of selections

  so just don't read the article don't

  scroll down just go to

  part where you make the selections and

  make the selections do not share your

  comments and then we've all done it come

  back and we will discuss our choices so

  here you guys in the chat room okay so

  what the hell is alphabet that's Google

  right Google's parent that's Google if

  an evil monarch forced you to choose in

  which order would you give up these

  inescapable Giants of text so okay I'm

  done well I give me I gotta think about

  this for a second easy-peasy people yeah

  Casey's got a mullet over just a little

  yell done yes

  all right so now I will explain the

  premise they list the big tech companies

  alphabet basically Google Apple

  Microsoft Facebook and Amazon and asks

  you and what are you would you be

  willing to give them up so if there's

  one company that you're like I don't

  care if that company goes away tomorrow

  that's obviously your number one pick

  you'd pick that one and like and you

  keep working your way down at the end

  you'll be left with the company you

  would least like to see depart this

  earth like if they just disappeared or

  whatever so who wants to go first what

  what uh well let's just let's go through

  our let's do top four style okay first

  of all the question of like how many

  people do you think arrived at this

  article and knew what alphabet was and

  then every time they mention it they

  have to say the parent company of Google

  because nobody knows what that is

  because Google is so bad at everything

  branding wise everything human they

  can't do I would have just called it

  Google but yes Lee uses the Google brand

  and I don't think can you think of

  something that is in alpha but not in

  Google that you care about like S&S

  stuff or something anyway let's let's

  now do our number one choice they're

  backwards top for the company that we

  would all be willing to get rid of first

  I'm willing to bet we all have the same

  one for this one yes Facebook Facebook

  nope whoa no all right what did you pick

  Microsoft Microsoft hmm what is

  Microsoft done for me lately and by

  lately I mean in the last year no more

  than that well they did like provide

  your livelihood for many years right

  okay yeah that's why I said only in the

  last year and you're absolutely right

  yeah but now you have a grudge like it

  in the style I am Mike

  figure edge no no no I will never be a

  grudge day well no it will never be

  grunts like you but you know uh what is

  Microsoft done for me lately nothing

  really I mean I do love Visual Studio

  code yes people are mentioning Visual

  Studio for the Mac but that's just a

  rebranded xamarin develop monodevelop

  whatever it's called I don't think that

  there's anything that Microsoft has

  given me in the last eight days 12 to 18

  months that really affects me day-to-day

  and maybe I'm just missing something but

  I do get some value out of Facebook

  believe it or not whereas I don't think

  IG actively get any value out of

  Microsoft today what value do you get at

  Facebook

  oh shit Instagram oh shoot I didn't mean

  that at all oh that might change my tune

  yeah I just wrote but let's see I can't

  throw Microsoft under the bus either

  because I use their keyboard ha ha and

  also they own sky which were you which

  we don't love but we use it every week

  and there's nothing good to replace it

  these are all hard choices i factored

  this into my choice for Facebook is

  number one

  despite oculus which you also forgot

  about and Instagram or whatever that

  Facebook is the one I get rid of and

  rehab is evil monarch it doesn't

  necessarily say which one of these

  affects you that so that's the framing

  device that you're bringing to it

  Casey's decided the way he's going to

  pick this is like which one effects his

  life but there are many other factors

  that you use in determining which one do

  you want to depart this earth magically

  and Facebook I want to depart for so

  many reasons

  despite Instagram which I enjoy and

  despite oculus which may or may not be

  an interesting thing that I used some

  day that almost everything else they do

  i don't like and i believe that the need

  they fill could be filled equally or

  better by some other company if they

  were to just poof out of existence so

  facebook is my number one i don't like

  them yeah I'm going to stick with that

  to Eve as much as I love Instagram it it

  is like the other things on this list

  are more important to me and the

  omission of Facebook from the world I

  think I agree with you I think would

  have a better effect on the world not

  just me then then the removal of any

  other ones here Flickr could rise again

  to fill the Instagram if Instagram

  didn't exist I feel like something else

  would have done a similar thing because

  what it does is not as revolutionary as

  the

  that it was able to do it and gather

  this network of people and so on and so

  forth I mean honestly it's kind of

  amazing that tumblr didn't do that and I

  know I'm biased here but it was I

  looking back on it I think that tumblr

  had a big opportunity to be what

  Instagram was but their timing to mobile

  was all wrong because you know it was

  similar cases what would almost made

  Facebook pretty irrelevant in the mobile

  age is that like when you have like a

  big like desktop browser web service

  it's hard when mobile comes around to

  realize that you have to change

  everything and be mobile first Facebook

  realized it almost too late

  tumblr got it got it on it eventually

  too but by that point like a lot of the

  ground was already taken and including

  things against a gram alright so number

  two Facebook yeah for me is Microsoft

  obviously I saw for me as well and you

  know like you know like pieces they

  haven't done a lot for me recently

  however again these companies are all

  really big they do own a lot of stuff

  like you know none of us had anything

  nice except for Casey had anything nice

  to say about about the Facebook product

  itself but Instagram is owned by it so

  we have to consider that oculus think

  things like that

  with Microsoft they own a lot of stuff

  too as a dimension they own Skype we're

  all using Skype right now and as much as

  we hate it there's there's no clear

  better thing for podcasters to use

  except whatever the Germans are using

  with that studio link thing but I don't

  know anything about that I can't read

  German I can't understand the page and

  it looks like it's some kind of weird

  plugin for another app I don't use so

  well well well I guess I'll figure out

  some other time hope but so far so far

  you can still use Google Translate

  because you haven't got rid of Google

  yet so yeah right I actually did use

  that to read the day I opened the page

  in chrome so I could use the built-in

  Translate but but yeah ultimately

  Microsoft doesn't have a large role in

  my life so that would be my number two

  and it's not I don't really like I don't

  really dislike Microsoft I kind of feel

  bad for them these days because they're

  playing catch-up on so many major

  important fronts in the industry

  but they just don't provide a lot of

  value for me compared to the other ones

  above it on this list

  I picked Microsoft for a bunch of

  reasons most of which are not evil

  grudges there is evil grudge in the back

  of my mind

  but I can think of a lot of reasons why

  I actually wouldn't want them to go away

  which is why they're not number one Xbox

  even though I don't like it is an

  important counterbalance to PlayStation

  it's only real competitor in the same

  sort of level playing field because

  Nintendo is always off doing its own

  weird things so I think it's good that

  it exists that they did by Bungie which

  will wait them for forever but on the

  other hand we would not have the Bungie

  that we have today if it was not for

  Microsoft right so there's some credit

  there the cloud stuff they're doing I

  think is interesting and again is a

  counterbalance to both Amazon and Google

  and so I'd like to see more competition

  there but I don't like Word or Excel or

  office I think all this program the

  world will be better if those programs

  disappeared and we should you know again

  what come up with modern alternatives

  there dinosaurs we can't get rid of them

  because they've always been here and you

  know like it's a self-perpetuating cycle

  and you know the all those products I

  listed I either don't use them or would

  love to use something else so I don't I

  don't say goodbye to them with a grudge

  but out of this group they are my number

  two all right

  so number three Google for me yep dead

  oh there excuse me I selected alphabet

  whatever that means but I'm gonna say it

  means Google and this is again tricky

  because this includes things like

  YouTube which is you know that's a major

  I didn't consider that I think I think I

  stick by it

  but that's the thing all of these

  companies they have major acquisitions

  and major properties that you don't

  think of necessarily but you know Google

  owns YouTube and that's a major thing

  so that will you know that's hard to

  give up in a lot of ways for a lot of

  people and that but like you know there

  are other ways to find videos online

  just none of them are very big I guess

  but that doesn't mean somebody else

  couldn't make one I don't know it's it's

  a weird calculus but you know I don't

  use Google's Web Apps for anything other

  than the show notes for this show which

  we could you know we've again we decided

  that's the best for us to just use

  Google Docs for our share notes for the

  show but there are other options you

  know the we've all decided they aren't

  as good but we could go to one of them

  and I don't use Google web search the

  vast majority of

  time I'm almost always using DuckDuckGo

  I only occasionally jump into Google

  when I'm not finding the answer I want

  so it's that would be fairly easy for me

  but for a lot of other people that would

  be really hard because they they have a

  lot of tie ins to things like Gmail that

  are really important to them so it's

  kind of easy one for me to say Google

  but I wouldn't think that would be very

  common I did not say Google I said

  Amazon interesting you know as we were

  talking I started to wonder if me

  choosing Google for number three was a

  poor choice because specifically of

  youtube i I don't contribute to YouTube

  very often although I have once but I I

  feel like I am on YouTube almost every

  day to look at something or look up

  something or something like that so my

  answer was to put Google as number 3 but

  I wonder if maybe I should have swapped

  that with Amazon so how did you land on

  Amazon as the next one to go John well

  Google stuff that Google does is you

  know going back to the Casey framing of

  like these things that are important you

  like to use I use it for my email there

  is no alternative for a gmail that has

  the same properties like I don't like

  something my own server using IMAP is

  not the same as Gmail I am a gmail user

  at this point not an email user I use

  Google search all the time and I the

  alternatives are differently able to do

  things but I'm used to the way Google

  works and I just use it so extensively

  that I wouldn't want to have to try to

  get you something else

  YouTube was a big factor in my decision

  as well I spend a lot of time watching

  YouTube videos and I believe that it's

  not a matter of if they went away

  someone else can make a video a service

  because even before Google owned YouTube

  YouTube is very good at what it what it

  does in terms of you know making video

  that plays when you hit the play button

  that the recommendation engine to

  figuring out things you might be

  interested in and you know there's all

  sorts of terrible things about YouTube

  as well inevitably is the big dominant

  player in a field but I think they do a

  good job of what they do and if you know

  Google went away tomorrow it would take

  a long time for those ecosystems to

  reform around what another set of

  services so I wouldn't want to say

  goodbye to as well and

  all the other stuff that Google does all

  the wacky things that it does for the

  most part I like them the translation

  engine that was translating a German web

  page for you Google has really good

  translation and it gets better all the

  time all their weird projects with

  hot-air balloons and Wi-Fi and

  self-driving cars and like I love all

  that stuff about Google and I think the

  world would be lesser for them not to be

  there so that's why an Amazon why would

  I pick Amazon as my number three Amazon

  is great I use it like crazy like that

  that's what I was thinking about like if

  Amazon one way where would I order all

  my stuff because I order so much stuff

  from there right but I've used other

  places that sell you stuff over the

  internet and they're not that much worse

  than Amazon now maybe they don't have as

  much selection and maybe they don't have

  as cheap shipping and so on and so forth

  I live beg to differ here I've used

  enough of them to know I mean even just

  like a simple is like when I you know

  camera stuff I can buy from Amazon or I

  can buy it from B&H photo and bnh photo

  is not a Titan of the internet industry

  but it's fine lens rentals comm is not

  Amazon but but it was fine you know like

  but I've I bought enough stuff online

  from non Amazon places that I feel like

  I could live with that

  and often my defaulting of Amazon that

  we all do like I go to buy somewhere

  let's go to Amazon that defaulting runs

  me to trouble more often these days

  because I will accept Amazon selection

  as well Amazon does it have it must not

  exist which is not true or if Alison has

  a price it must be a reasonable price

  which is not true sometimes something on

  Amazon is insanely highly priced and you

  need to do some comparisons elsewhere

  for a variety of weird reason so I do

  use it I do value and rely on the

  service but I believe that it is not as

  impressive and because I don't have an

  echo and don't do I'm not in that

  ecosystem either and also I believe that

  other people can do similar things

  it was my number three was this was

  probably my most difficult choice

  between these two Amazon and an alphabet

  slash Google but I came down on Amazon

  interesting alright so that makes number

  four next is that right see this is

  where I picked Amazon for my number four

  I saved it for this same here you know

  my reasoning

  for saving it for so long throughout

  this this elimination is basically that

  you know there are lots of places like

  you know you mentioned B and H there are

  lots of other online retailers for the

  and by the way again Amazon owns a lot

  of stuff including if you're a

  programmer AWS which is kind of

  important for a lot of stacks and and

  not always easy to replace the

  components you're using depending on

  what you're using but anyway for retail

  alone whenever I buy anything from other

  places I very often wish I would have

  bought it from Amazon for various

  reasons there's a lot of parts of it

  that other people can do reasonably well

  sometimes but it's rare that you get any

  other vendor anywhere else online that

  has the the combination of everything

  ends on offers and and this is not only

  like the the kind of fundamentals of

  buying stuff online which is you know

  get it for a good price I mean now a lot

  of places offer the same price on things

  as Amazon or similar price close enough

  pricing but also be able to ship to you

  quickly and for not that much money and

  be able to accept returns really easily

  if it doesn't work out for you if it

  arrives broken be able to provide you

  know basic order tracking and things

  like that many of the other online

  retail things that are that are good

  amazon actually owns them things like

  Zappos and SOCOM which is now merged

  into Amazon diapers.com all this stuff

  like a lot of those things that Amazon

  actually owns them all so it would it

  would rule out a bunch of that stuff and

  it's also just really nice to have

  somewhere where like I've been buying

  large quantities of things from Amazon

  for so many years now for well over a

  decade now that I can go back and search

  my order history whenever I need to know

  what was that thing I bought or when did

  I buy this thing that might be about to

  break and I want to know how long it's

  Warren T is like when did I buy this how

  much should I pay for it back then you

  know how do I you know if I want to get

  another one of these things because the

  one I have just wore out or broke or ran

  out or whatever

  what exactly was that so I can just go

  buy the same thing again Amazon is great

  when you have a big history like that

  and so there are there are other than

  there's other retailers that that

  provides some of these parts but to have

  it all in one place like Amazon is is

  really very very convenient there are

  lots of things about Amazon retail that

  is that are bad things like you know the

  conditions in their warehouses or for

  some friends for some other workers like

  there have been various reports over

  time about how those aren't those are

  less than great so it's not it's not

  wonderful in always being a seller on

  Amazon apparently has a lot of issues

  because of things like they're

  incredibly overly generous return policy

  for the for the customer which is very

  problematic for a lot of the sellers but

  for the most part as a user of Amazon I

  really really greatly greatly enjoy it

  again it isn't perfect like they're like

  for example I recently got a need to get

  a a SanDisk memory card a fairly fast

  decent one that was like 60 bucks and

  any memory card is kind of a risk to buy

  from Amazon because they have such a

  problem with counterfeit products being

  in their stock and memory cards are very

  commonly counterfeited so anything like

  that I'll buy from B&H because they're

  they're much more reliable on that in

  that in that way and things like pro

  audio gear I'll buy from B&H most of

  time too but like for the with the with

  those few exceptions anything I can buy

  from Amazon I usually will buy from

  Amazon which is a Charles remember AWS

  s3 ec2 and all the other services that

  Amazon that's powering tons of star ups

  I know there are equivalent cloud

  offerings from Microsoft in Google but

  if they were to disappear the next day

  we're probably kill like half the

  internet startups and a bunch of other

  companies like it was like when as three

  goes down you find out how many

  companies are relying on it so it is a

  tough one but yeah I I had a number

  three instead of number four you never

  and I had Google in them before but I

  already talked about that

  fair enough so we all chose Apple last

  yeah I mean surprise like obviously

  we're going to do that but I suppose

  this is a good litmus test for this quiz

  doesn't give you much doesn't give you

  much guidance you could use any criteria

  you want to remove it and we're all

  talking about different things we

  thought about but I I would guess that

  for for the reason we kept to Google or

  Apple until last is mostly based on the

  fact that we use Macs and

  iOS devices so it's suddenly a very

  personal decision I get that factored in

  like oh I use Gmail or I already lots of

  stuff from Amazon or you know I get some

  value from Facebook and not from

  Microsoft cuz I don't use their stuff

  but for Apple I think would actually be

  harder to argue about like if Apple is

  gone no one will be able to do X right I

  think at least for me it more comes down

  to I use them like the Mac and there is

  no alternative that I would want to use

  and I use them like iOS devices and

  there's probably no alternative that I

  would want to use and so I don't want

  those things to go away for me it is

  less about if Apple is gone they'll

  never be self-driving cars because

  that's not true if Apple is gone no one

  will ever make VR a are not true like if

  Apple is gone no one will ever make a

  you know a handheld touch operating

  system again actually we have those now

  you know so it's not it's not based on

  future stuff like I think in the past if

  we were sort of in the in the beginning

  phases like just after the iPod and when

  Apple was making a series of you know

  computers that were really impressive

  and weird and you know setting the world

  on fire and then the iPod the surprise

  success the surprise overnight five-year

  success I think I would have said at

  that time I'm saying now before last

  because I want to see what they do next

  because they're just doing hit after hit

  after hit and even the duds like the

  cube are still awesome right you know

  what what is that Apple going to do next

  these days I have less of what is an

  Apple go to do next thing and it's more

  just like please Apple you make many

  products that I like and enjoy that an

  important part of my life and I wouldn't

  like the alternatives please

  keep making them and improving them

  which is a lesser thing but I did save

  it for last and for me it's for very

  selfish reasons I mean I make my living

  off of Apple no matter how you slice it

  be at this show or my job' job it's all

  because of Apple at this point so I

  would be pretty sad and broke if he

  disappeared for me it's all about Beats

  I just don't want to give up my feet my

  beats solo2 studio-x headphones don't an

  apple music connect right is that really

  a big part of your life yes yes

  definitely I really love connecting with

  my engaged I don't even know what it

  does it's a big part of finding the

  setting to remove that

  your toolbar in iOS that's the best yeah

  no I mean you know so like Casey I also

  make my my living off of Apple stuff you

  know whether it's through my iOS app

  which could not exist anymore Apple went

  away you know and you know yes overcast

  does have a web player which is used by

  something like 1% of the user base so

  that's probably not much of a business

  there granted it does suck but it's

  still not much not much users there so

  my living would go away or most of it at

  least we could theoretically keep

  podcasting and we could make money that

  way but a large part of what we talked

  about would go away especially if we

  limit LIGO 5 companies look for keys

  here we'd all be using Windows or Linux

  and androids I think we'd have a lot of

  things to talk about that's yeah that's

  the spirit so that would be a problem

  but and also I will go one step further

  speaking of that John that you know you

  mentioned that you know like that you

  would that without Apple you know you

  couldn't really say like all without

  Apple nobody would ever do X or this

  this thing would ever exist I would say

  that there are many of those things in

  practice but the one that I will point

  out here is I think without Apple nobody

  would ever make a great personal

  computing platform again and there's

  lots of reasons why and this could be a

  bigger discussion I don't know but this

  is part of the reason why I'm so

  defensive of Apple continuing to make

  Pro hardware and keeping the Mac healthy

  because without that many slices of

  people have to go to Windows or Linux or

  whatever future options might come about

  and I honestly do not believe that

  anyone else any other company will ever

  make a good general purpose computer

  operating system as we know it today

  besides Apple well you put a lot of

  qualifiers on that because you're saying

  as we know it like I think that if Apple

  was to go away and you're waiting for

  the next great one of those things it

  would be an nos that is not quote

  unquote as we know today like to give an

  example from the past that didn't quite

  do it but I feel like could have webOS

  and remember webOS this little mess had

  some bad idea

  but it's not is not a desktop operating

  system or general purpose operating

  system as we know it right and even you

  can even argue Android like I feel like

  the next what you'd be waiting for is

  the next great computing platform after

  Android essentially because we've

  already got Android and iOS here race

  we've already raised Google's or Android

  has gone and then we have raced Apple so

  that was gone so we're left sided with

  this void right and I feel like the next

  thing to emerge would be more like webOS

  iOS and Android you're right that there

  would never be with all your qualifiers

  a great personal computing

  general-purpose computing platform as we

  know it because I feel like that time

  has passed and so it is true that we'd

  be losing we'd be losing a category of

  things right and that would be sad for

  us because we're old but I would indeed

  be a great a new great computing

  platform it just wouldn't be

  recognizable to us as like a

  general-purpose computing platform I

  mean it's surely in this day and age it

  would be entirely like lockdown and

  filled with an app store and also other

  stuff exactly probably be touch based

  that or VR based or whatever and like an

  ad base you know no we'll see I mean I

  thought you were gonna say privacy

  that's what I thought you were if you

  look at all these companies which one of

  these even makes like most of don't even

  make faints in the direction of privacy

  right I mean at Google I feel like this

  is kind of good on the security of its

  own data but that's just so it can data

  myself doesn't open to the outside world

  right but Apple is the by far the

  strongest on data privacy for you know

  and even things like you know energy

  sustainability and stuff like things

  that Apple apples like apples core

  values under Tim Cook or otherwise these

  other companies don't express in the

  same strong way and so data privacy

  could be with that Apple how long would

  it take for another company of that size

  to actually care about the privacy

  security your data to the point where

  it's fighting the government to prevent

  it from turning stuff over that is not a

  value that is spread very far and wide

  in tech so it would be shame to lose

  that as well interesting quiz for sure

  yeah so now now we can scroll down

  anything and see what everyone else

  picked so 57% pick Facebook is number

  one which I think is interesting I mean

  who knows like this is a self-selecting

  thing who's going to click on these

  things probably a bunch of tech nerds

  there's a lot of hatred of Facebook

  among tech nerds but this is the New

  York Times by the way it's on its thing

  so I'm thinking that maybe the audience

  is broader then I might imagine maybe

  it's not entirely tech nerds and the

  what I want to believe is that it shows

  that Facebook is popular because

  Facebook is popular but you know people

  don't really have that much love for it

  right they're like you have to be on

  Facebook because everyone's on Facebook

  and everyone's on Facebook because I

  runs on Facebook but not universally

  beloved for whatever reason whether it's

  the software platform itself or the

  things people associate with it or the

  resent the fact that they have to be

  there or whatever you know Microsoft and

  second you know Microsoft is is not on

  the way up I'm effects on the way down

  but it isn't it is in transition so it

  doesn't surprise me transition down

  Amazon third and one third kind of

  surprises to me because I thought I

  would think more people would frame this

  as here's a service that I use all the

  time if I couldn't order from Amazon but

  maybe maybe only tech nerds with more

  money than time water everything on

  Amazon I don't know alphabet assuming

  people knew what the hell that was

  oh I'll bet is third I think people like

  Google I think people like YouTube

  especially YouTube I think people you

  know in the general population don't

  want it they just think of Google is the

  way you search things they don't know

  what the duck taco exists they maybe

  heard the word Bing once googles and

  essential thing everything is googling

  and then YouTube if they even know where

  the YouTube was part of it they like I'm

  not giving up YouTube YouTube is

  basically my TV and then Apple most

  people wanted to drop that last because

  I don't know like the Apple Apple

  customer sat and brand recognition and

  good feelings you know people have a lot

  of good feelings about this is not a

  strict ranking is it really just tells

  you you know 32% chose to drop it last

  and 26% chose to drop alphabet first so

  it to slice and dice this data it would

  be difficult but anyway if you look at

  the little bar graphs at the bottom

  Facebook drop first is just the runaway

  winner and then drop last actually no

  GLE was that had a higher percentage of

  drop last so you go 40% for google and

  32% for apple so two companies with a

  recognizable brain

  and that people really really like and

  Facebook nobody likes them we are

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  [Music]

  Marco you want to talk to us about how

  you don't believe in Dropbox anymore and

  that would have been your first one to

  go if you had the option yeah so a few

  up maybe about a month or two ago now I

  forget exactly when it was about a month

  ago maybe I decided to try a life

  without Dropbox basically I still have

  my

  count but I uninstalled it from all my

  computers and and I stopped using it for

  anything except I logged into the

  website to download the audio files that

  you guys give me every week for this

  podcast and because and there were a

  number of reasons why I wanted to drop

  Dropbox their software on the Mac has

  gotten increasingly invasive of the

  system it does creepy things like trying

  to hack the accessibility database and

  installing kernel extensions and things

  all in the name of features that I don't

  want you know think things like the

  accessibility thing I think was about

  like sucking in photos or something and

  and the kernel extensions are for things

  like their their project infinite file

  system thing that I don't need or want

  and there was there's no like good

  options to just say no please don't do

  this thanks just give me the basic thing

  that uses the supported API in Mac OS to

  do this to stuff that you're doing for

  syncing the folder like that's all I

  really want is a synced folder like

  that's that's all I really wanted this

  thing what you know basically the thing

  it used to be so and so all these

  features I think are like all this stuff

  that I don't want or use that are part

  of Dropbox now let's see what else I can

  get away with and and what I've what

  I've settled on at the moment is I just

  moved everything to iCloud Drive and

  because I already pay for our cloud

  storage for all my photos I already have

  all Apple devices that I'm running this

  on with one important exception which is

  my my server that runs my blog engine

  which I'll get to but for the most part

  is like iCloud Drive should work fine

  for me so let's see how this goes so far

  it's mostly fine but I think I'm gonna

  go back anyway in everyday use

  everything's fine with iCloud Drive I

  even like to make the transition easier

  with some of my muscle memory of like

  running shell scripts in my Dropbox

  folder I I sim linked home slash Dropbox

  to whatever the crazy path is like

  mobile documents left whatever whatever

  the path is the actual iCloud iCloud

  Drive folder on your Mac I sim linked

  home slash Dropbox to that so so I at

  least start you know that everything is

  kind of where I expected to be if I if I

  into like a muscle memory of like you

  know going to Dropbox folder we're

  running a cert from there whatever else

  so that was actually a very easy

  progression as far as I can tell

  doing that has not caused anything

  really weird to happen I do keep running

  out of file descriptors but it's

  probably not really it's probably not

  that I also laugh anyway so so for

  sharing my own files between my

  computers like the basic synced folder

  iCloud Drive has been totally fine for

  me I haven't noticed any kind of weird

  data loss

  everything is always right there when I

  want it one of the interesting things

  about it is because it kind of has like

  infinite background privileges on iOS I

  was out working today out in the world

  on my iPad not something I actually do

  very often but but I was doing it today

  for various reasons number one cellular

  max don't exist but anyway I was doing

  this and I went to the iCloud Drive app

  on my iPad for the very first time I

  have never launched it before and all my

  stuff was there and all the files that I

  worked out that I wanted to access we're

  already there because it is always

  working in the background it is

  privileged it has like apples blessing

  to do whatever it wants so it unlike

  Dropbox which can only work like if I

  had already ever launched it first of

  all and then you know whenever it gets a

  background update but then the system

  controls that and limits it and if I

  never use it it won't really get any so

  it has privileges on Apple platforms

  that Dropbox can't eat can't have I mean

  on the Mac again camera on iOS it can't

  so for the most part for just that

  purpose of sharing your own files

  between your own devices iCloud Drive

  has been totally fine for me the main

  areas that that hurt are number one I

  built my blog engine on Dropbox now I

  don't blog very often anymore and that's

  that's a separate discussion and I want

  to change that but one of the main

  problems with this is that now I don't

  have a way to edit my blog except for SS

  aging into my server and using them on

  the in the terminal to edit is their

  best yeah

  which is which is clumsy to say the

  least I could also just switch to a

  regular CMS but you know I'm not going

  to do that

  exactly you know me I know me that's not

  going to happen and so that's yeah so

  that that has been that has been a pain

  and a bigger pain has been our shared

  our shared folder for this show the way

  we do the show is that this is a common

  thing you know like you guys give me

  audio files every week from your

  recording I take them out of the Dropbox

  folder I make a project record it never

  you know sync it all up and edit and

  everything else and publish it we also

  work together on certain files and

  folders within that shared folder so

  when we're doing things like t-shirt

  designs where we're working often with

  shared files in that folder and this is

  an area that as far as I know iCloud

  Drive has nothing to offer that there

  are no as far as I know right there's no

  collaborative iCloud Drive folder

  syncing options and maybe it's everybody

  see maybe they'll change that so maybe I

  should wait but but for the most part as

  far as I know that doesn't exist so

  collaborate with other people and

  working with other people in a shared

  folder I don't that seems like it's I'm

  gonna have to either go without that or

  do what I do now which is just download

  stuff the web interface but that makes

  it it's much less commuting to actually

  like work in the folders with you guys I

  guess one thing if you're if you're just

  giving me files and I just have to

  download them that's fine but if we are

  working together on something where

  we're like we're all kind of editing

  stuff in a folder together the web

  interface is going to suck royally for

  that that I should not be using that so

  basically I'm probably going to go back

  to Dropbox because of those two big

  things of shared folders and it isn't

  just you guys okay I occasionally need

  for other things but it's this show is

  the one that happens most often but so

  basically Dropbox shared folders and the

  blog engine problem now I could install

  another cloud service to do these things

  I could for instance use something like

  whatever the new name is for BitTorrent

  sync was it's rosalie oh yeah I could do

  that there's a bunch of other things

  that are kind of like that you know

  other other various services and

  products that will behave like Dropbox

  so maybe I should

  try some of those first but that's it's

  probably going to be hard to ever

  address the shared folder problem with

  those things because we'll drive will do

  it

  well I found that's on that drive is

  fine I trust Google even less than

  Dropbox I have a terabyte of Google

  Drive stuff and I'm like I'll stop

  paying for that one I don't need it

  anymore but I don't it's nice to have I

  mean I still I still prefer Dropbox but

  Google Drive and onedrive which is not

  as terrible as you think it is speaking

  of someone who has had forcibly

  installed on their Mac at work I don't

  know it's this is the problem I have is

  that all the other options sound worse

  to me like from the ones that are from

  big companies like like Google Drive or

  I think even Amazon has something like

  this and box and boxes where I see right

  about you're right about that so yeah so

  this thing like I think all of these

  things are worse in some way and to

  address the shared folder problem I

  pretty much need to use what everyone

  else around me is using and it around

  our community and around these parts

  that's Dropbox no question like it's

  always Dropbox so I basically have to

  decide like how much am I willing to

  fight Dropbox or two to fight not having

  Dropbox how much is that worth to me

  versus how annoying is it to just have

  it and tolerate its crappy Mac client

  and I'm leaning more towards

  reinstalling it just because it's not

  having it has been a pain in those two

  big areas but we will see I don't have

  made any final decisions yet what do you

  guys think

  didn't you disable the privileged

  accessibility blah blah blah thing I

  just say no every time it boots up and

  it says we'd your password to work

  properly I'm like no you don't I know

  you're lying to me Dropbox so I just say

  no I just cancel every time I reboot but

  it that pisses me off like why should I

  have to say that you should let it it's

  probably dumb enough that you can let it

  install and then modify the thing such

  that the OS will refuse to run them and

  so the check to see that it is

  successfully installed will return true

  but then they'll never actually run and

  you'll get some errors in your console

  like you just chmod the files to because

  it's especially the kernel extension Mac

  OS is super picky about the permissions

  of every single thing having to do with

  the Chrome extension for

  reasons if you just flip on the right

  bit unlike group or other on one file

  the OS will refuse to load it and it

  will just join errorlog and I bet you

  that Dropbox is dumb enough that when it

  tries to see whether it needs to prompt

  you it will just look to see if like a

  file exists and it's not getting down to

  the permission level who knows anyway

  there are possible ways to hack around

  that or you just let it do what it does

  because I let it do what it does I don't

  use the infinite thing I don't think I

  ever will

  Dropbox drop boxes occasionally gets

  flipped out because it tries to drink

  from the fire hose of filesystem events

  yep right and I wish it would drink from

  a smaller firehose of just the

  filesystem events that happen inside the

  Dropbox folder but my impression based

  on the activity of dbfs event D or

  whatever the hell that thing is called

  is that it's flipping out when stuff is

  going on on the filesystem that is not

  inside the Dropbox folder and I wish it

  would just chill out but other than that

  which I can solve by quitting Dropbox

  which by the way is the thing I can't do

  as easily with the iCloud Drive thing I

  prefer and I'm still terrified of iCloud

  drive because of the weird behaviors

  that I've seen with weird the locked

  files that can't be opened or deleted

  anywhere and and no recourse and no

  ability to turn it on and often no way

  to control the indication of download

  state or force things to download no way

  to pin files to my iOS devices I don't

  know if that's even true but I'm

  assuming it is all features that I have

  with Dropbox I just find Dropbox so much

  more tractable because it is a third

  party thing and I am concerned about the

  increasing invasiveness but as long as

  practically speaking it doesn't do

  anything bad to my computer and if I

  need to turn it off I can I'm still

  definitely sticking with that I do have

  Google Drive installed and well note and

  a bunch of other things and occasionally

  I fire up Google Drive and I think it's

  fine

  Google Drive is fine I just prefer

  Dropbox for now and and as you said the

  network effect it's the reason you know

  you're using it because everyone else is

  using it is this the way people

  collaborate and that's this difficult

  overcome ok see what should I do I think

  you should take off your tinfoil hat

  you should reinstall Dropbox and and

  when we all get all of our data stolen

  and leaked then you can blame me cool

  thanks for our three sponsors this week

  Warby Parker Squarespace and away and we

  will see you next week

  now the show is over

  they didn't even mean to begin cuz it

  was accidental oh it was accidental John

  didn't do any research Marco and Casey

  wouldn't let him cuz it was accidental

  it was accidental and you can find the

  show notes today T P dot F M and if

  you're into Twitter you can follow them

  at CAS II WA L is s so that's Casey Liz

  M a are Co AR m auntie Marco Arment and

  I are DC USA Syracuse

  Tech

  ah so what's the drama with your switch

  scenario at home because we were talking

  the relay chat if it seems as though you

  are in an impossible predicament where

  you would like to buy another switch but

  they're deep penalties for doing so yet

  if you don't buy another switch you will

  never play the switch because Tiff's

  basically is taking it over I thought

  you're gonna talk about him putting the

  little sliding thing on the joique on

  the wrong way well there's that too but

  I was setting up Mario Kart for kids I

  was trying to why you can't have nice

  things yeah why does it go on the wrong

  way if it if it locks it there plus goes

  to plus minus goes to one is matches

  match the shapes I didn't notice that at

  first though in Marcos defense I did

  eventually notice that + + + - - but at

  first I did by well and I wasn't using

  the wrong one for the controller I was

  using the correct one but backwards I

  know but but you didn't you didn't match

  up the symbols they go next to each

  other why does it go on backwards yeah I

  like that you had to resort to a YouTube

  video to get out of it like basically if

  there was no internet you would be at

  home staring at this like you've staring

  at your broken toy being like do you

  want to rethink your ordering from

  earlier now no I hey oh yeah I really

  was about to get a screwdriver and start

  disassembling it to try to get this

  thing off because like I remember I

  forget which one they were like two or

  three

  samsung phones ago where like if you put

  the stylus in the slot the wrong way it

  would just it would just get stuck in

  there forever like why like why is the

  switch design in such a way that you can

  so easily attach these two very commonly

  attached parts in the wrong direction

  and when you do it gets stuck really

  hard I think the switch hardware is not

  Nintendo like in so many ways that it is

  yeah delicate and fragile and you can

  easily do the wrong thing and like it is

  it is weirdly non it's not like Nintendo

  doesn't have a history of making

  portable devices just look at the huge

  history of portal devices and almost all

  of them are rugged to the point of

  fisher-price nests and very difficult to

  do something wrong with like the

  original fire wire connector is

  supposedly was inspired by the Game Boy

  Connect thing of having you know it was

  novel the time connector can only go

  incorrectly one way and they can be

  plugged unplugged lots of times and

  still be sturdy

  and then the switch comes along and it's

  I mean it kind of started switching to

  it in the Wii U was making stuff glossy

  to try to make it look more sort of pro

  and fancy I'm not going to say Apple

  like but like less pressure price like

  let's say for the Wii U and like the Wii

  U pro controller especially the glossy

  black model being the high end and the

  switch is just like what is this a Sony

  device like it looks Sonia shit looks

  like you know a PSP right right down to

  the the the delicate little bits that

  seem like they could break off and the

  ability to put things on backwards it

  should never be possible to do that it

  should be super rugged but you know but

  it is fun to make fun of Margaux for

  doing that but he doesn't follow gaming

  websites oh he doesn't he didn't see the

  8,000 stories when the switch was

  launched about putting those things on

  backwards

  yeah you're right exactly so I just did

  it tonight as I was trying to set up

  these controllers for two kids to play

  Mario Kart with us and yeah it was it

  was tough anyway but besides that I am

  greatly enjoying the switch because now

  Mario Cart came out and I'm having so

  much fun with this suction credibly fun

  game and if you are the kind of video

  game person who has already played it on

  the Wii U like John it's not much new

  for you 60 frames per second but as

  somebody who hasn't played Mario Kart

  since the Nintendo 64 version hey buddy

  right it is so much fun and so I really

  am quite enjoying this and it really

  literally is fun for the whole family

  we like now Adams playing and and like

  other the auto-steer or like the kind of

  bumper cars version of it that jon was

  complaining about last week is indeed a

  problem when adults are playing and you

  don't realize little antennas in the

  back of their car but the the

  combination of that and the automatic

  acceleration is awesome for having small

  children play because they can play with

  the whole family and not be too too far

  behind not get themselves stuck and have

  to try to show them how to reverse and

  like it's it's really nice and and in

  addition to it just being a really fun

  you know mario kart racing game for for

  adults when they're playing it in like

  the normal or hard modes I'm just having

  so much fun with this game the only

  downside

  this game is that I'm going to have to

  buy more Pro controllers probably so

  it's going to cost a lot of money that

  way and also the switch is still mostly

  being dominated by Tiff's and Adam

  playing Zelda as it should be

  and I also thought like you know what it

  like there will be times when I want a

  second switch dock so for instance like

  when we go to a beach house in the

  summertime or we have a but we have a

  second TV in our in our playroom and

  like so maybe somebody's using the main

  TV but when I'm playing a small screen

  maybe I want to play on it back there

  let me see if I can get a second dog how

  much could it cost 40 bucks nope 90

  bucks another story that if you had read

  the gaming press you would have seen a

  million OVA on around lunchtime or when

  the prices were announced people were

  shocked people also shocked by the way

  with how much the pro controller cost

  yeah yeah that's like 70 right I have to

  them now and it's I pay way too much

  it's like it sounds like and so I

  started doing some research of like you

  know if I want a second doc and it's $90

  and a new switch is only 250 that comes

  with it 300 oh is 300 and it's hard to

  know with the real prices this is the

  jump that Marco makes very quickly $90

  300 they're basically the same

  Ryan years makes no difference well it's

  like it will you know do I need more joy

  kansai I thought I was gonna need one a

  few hours ago because I thought I broke

  one of mine so so I'm like so I started

  adding it's a funcle' actually this

  isn't that ridiculous that maybe we

  should just get a second switch that

  wait if can play Zelda on the main TV

  and I can go in the back room play Mario

  Kart and then I can take one when I

  travel to everybody cientific and stay

  here and play with that on everything

  else so I started asking around with

  friends like John of like how does that

  actually work with like game transfers

  and like I bought this game to digitally

  I don't have cartridge for any of them

  on John's advice which in most cases is

  good and that was the right decision no

  no no the carts won't save you like even

  if you had held on a cart and you

  plugged into the other thing the save

  date is not on the cart so it's not

  helping you right so so basically I'm

  basically running into all of the issues

  of being a Nintendo fan that in tendo

  fans have been yelling about for like 10

  years and I which is that really a part

  of it I was

  out of I was kind of out of the game so

  to speak for all that time and now that

  I come back in from Mario Kart and I'm

  like man wouldn't it be great if I had a

  second system or first first let me just

  get a second HDMI doc Wow that's

  expensive okay let me get a couple more

  controllers my god those are expensive

  oh well I'd well I bought my games

  digitally let me see if I could just

  download onto a second console wow that

  system kind of sucks it is very limited

  okay how about our save game will that

  transfer nope that won't it's like to

  put all the things again like Nintendo

  fans this is not news to anybody who's

  been a Nintendo fan forever

  but because I haven't been this is this

  is all new to me

  yeah well take issue with one thing John

  just said though that the cart wouldn't

  help it would help in getting the

  software between the two devices I agree

  it will not help in any way shape or

  form with save but it will absolutely

  help with getting the game in between

  the devices quickly and easily without

  it without any sort of fuss well you can

  it can only be activated on one device

  but I bet if you download it onto both

  you could just like activate deactivate

  I don't know I've never tried it in

  theory it might be better but I really

  would not relish the idea of taking

  those tiny little cartridges in and out

  and walking them back and forth from

  even just within your house because talk

  about something that could easily get

  like vacuumed up or eaten by a dumb dog

  or all sorts of other things that can

  happen to a dog's aren't smart then also

  when it comes to things that the shooter

  shouldn't be eating let's say having a

  my dog

  particularly loves cat poop so you know

  the the the bad tasting Nintendo

  cartridge forget it they also don't chew

  and apparently don't taste things so

  it's like one swallow and it's gone yeah

  I wouldn't relish doing that and I yeah

  I don't know what's worse is the having

  it downloaded on both of them but I only

  active on one versus carrying a cart

  back and forth uh you are way over

  blowing the difficulty of the cartridge

  I have cartridges for both Zelda Mario

  Kart and I have to swap between them

  when I want to play different games and

  you are way way way over blowing how

  difficult it is to keep track of no I'm

  saying if you're walking across the

  house like which room is it in from one

  for one side to the other and just wait

  until Declan d-twah knows gardening I

  think you're making a mountain out of a

  mole my house isn't that big

  no the transfer between the two places

  means you're not sure which location it

  is which means you're not sure

  this period which means you can get lost

  they're very tiny I mean if it was an

  n64 Kart you'd be okay but these are not

  64 cards

  fair enough yeah I don't know I I will

  say though that I've been deeply

  enjoying both Mario Kart and Zelda and

  much to my own surprise I have I have

  almost as much time in Mario Kart as I

  do in Zelda and I think that comes back

  to what I believe I was saying on this

  show might have been analog that I just

  find it much easier to just kind of pick

  up Mario Kart and play where to me yeah

  we were talking about on the show where

  Danny Zelda's not quite so simple

  because I am not good at video games and

  so I need the context you don't have

  what it takes to save Hyrule's where

  you're getting it probably just to go

  the world just gonna go unsaved yeah

  that's correct you're gonna say well it

  seems like a lot of work to save the

  world when I just go run in circles few

  times in this kart racing game right

  yeah to me as somebody who's only

  watched Zelda and not actually played it

  because I I really am NOT into that kind

  of game at all to me it's like sitting

  down for watching an epic film versus

  like watching a quick youtube video for

  fun but like I said this Zelda is the is

  incredibly easy to pick up and do a

  small amount of things I don't think

  you'll actually ever finish the game by

  sitting them in small amount of things

  but it is it doesn't force you to say

  I'm going to do the next dungeon like

  the old Zelda games that you can do a

  very small amount of things pick up at

  any time do a little thing and stop and

  the way it this is one thing that and

  kind of has actually finally gotten

  right the way you can put the system to

  sleep and it wakes back up and you're

  like literally back at the exact second

  you put it to sleep it sounds like you

  something you would take for granted but

  it is taking in 10 - this long to

  successfully do that that makes it so

  much easier to take up I mean even just

  for me like I will pick up the switch

  this is the main time of using portable

  mode like and do my amiibo random reward

  thing because it's just easy to do

  turned on I'm exactly where I left off

  hit a button hit the little NFC thing

  open up my chest see what I got put it

  back to sleep there's no way I would do

  that if I had to boot it up or load a

  game or wait for a long turning on

  sequence or something like that and

  again it sounds like stuff you should

  take for granted the other modern

  consoles have done forever but now

  Nintendo is find in that aspect we're

  just still waiting for them to

  understand how the hell this crazy

  online thing works

  because they haven't figured it out yet

  do you guys have your switches nearby by

  chance no it's in the other room oh you

  suck

  what are you to play now no I would

  never do that to hone your games Tony CC

  comes Auto unlocked in this right yeah

  everything almost everything is unlocked

  from the start like all the tracks as

  far as I know right it's too easy all

  the characters the only the only things

  like some of the tires and stuff you

  need to unlock yeah although that is

  disappointing I've I haven't spent

  enough time in it unlock oh my favorite

  write the card I usually uses the f01

  they have like a little at zero low yeah

  I have that one the Blue Falcon I think

  yeah some other ones I like and I think

  I haven't unlocked it yet but no in the

  original Marik car that you had to

  slowly unlock things and a lot of the

  things were DLC like a lot of the

  additional tracks but this is all the

  DLC and everything unlocked except for

  some of the card stuff and 200 cc 200

  didn't even exist in America it for a

  long time that was think part of a DLC

  pack 150 was stopped so I three start

  all of 150 and 200 cc came out and I was

  like now I'm not doing that

  but I've three start a couple of them

  and 200 cc I don't think I'm going to do

  all them I love one of my favorite

  things about Mario Kart as somebody who

  was out of it for so long is that if you

  are familiar with the Nintendo 64

  version and its mechanics and the way

  the vehicles handle and the controls and

  how you you know how the weapons handle

  how you like can hold on to stuff behind

  you and how you do the jump and skid

  thing and how you can hold the skid and

  everything I was like all of that muscle

  memory translates perfectly like

  everything still handles pretty much the

  exact same way it still feels like that

  game and so you're able to others I was

  able to jump in and and pretty much know

  how to play immediately and actually I

  can say the same thing for for Tiff's

  and for some of our friends who have

  played it like everyone I've seen pick

  up this game has just immediately gotten

  it because we all played the n64 version

  back in the day and it just it's it it

  handles the same way like it's it's our

  it's new but familiar it doesn't handle

  the same way

  it totally does by any stretch of the

  imagination no I mean like it is is the

  same conceptually but like Bert yeah I

  don't know you need to be a very car

  connoisseur but America's handling it's

  so unlike the n64 one

  which is in turn is unlike a double -

  maybe the closest you could say is the

  America it is a little bit like the Wii

  version but I I find the handling very

  very different shockingly different

  between those different versions of

  Mario Kart so much so that it's almost

  hard to believe that it the same game

  you know that they have like the same

  graphics everything you write the

  concepts are all the same the things

  you're doing it more or less the same

  but marikar day is a nice compromise

  between well I don't know it double - is

  my favorite in terms of handling that's

  how I wish all of them handled the Wii

  version was a little bit floaty the n64

  version was a little imprecise and yet

  sprites going on there so it was a

  little bit of mess and there was a lot

  of hopping so it was very different

  there's no hopping just remember in its

  n64 hopping no hopping and eggless right

  but yeah Mario Kart 8 doesn't feel slow

  to use the Wii version it's not as

  snappy and precise as double - but I it

  is a nice compromise it it's like all

  round in the middle like nicely

  I don't nicely round it handling but it

  doesn't it doesn't feel as precise to me

  in terms of the racing as much as my

  favorites my only complaint about it is

  that when I first started playing it I

  was able to immediately figure out how

  to handle the cars and everything but I

  had a lot of trouble figuring out like

  you know what all these different tires

  do and what are the different air foils

  do and what is the deal with that

  because I still haven't really figured

  that out well so well and and also I

  didn't even realize like what what are

  the coins for like what are they what a

  coins do and like there's so much done

  so much help with it with your game

  right and so what so I don't want to

  just search for because the first thing

  I want to know is like what are the

  actual like weight classes of these

  characters that I don't recognize

  oh wait classes that's not how it works

  and well and so so I went and found like

  there's a deal with IGN like wiki kind

  of thing that has all this all these

  numbers as iOS apps but now I finally I

  finally understand like all I took the

  20 minutes to read all that stuff and I

  read about the thing I like you know you

  gotta if you hop off of a jump you get a

  little boost and I figured out what the

  little anti-graft things were and how

  they worked and like all the stuff that

  like that everyone who's playing it just

  kind of knows - this is probably

  introduced over the last 7 years in

  various iterations of his game but I've

  you know I the last time I played was in

  64 version so that was a long time ago

  that didn't have things like coins and

  and jump you jump boost and and

  grab wheels and things like that so what

  is the deal with like the different

  wheels and in sales and whatnot like how

  does that empirically attract you guys

  both know how to show the stats which

  they frustratingly don't show by default

  and don't remember your preferences

  about oh I didn't know that when you're

  picking a car you hit the plus button

  say what it's it's another thing that

  annoys you of America it is they don't

  they don't remember your preference for

  that so every time you go to that screen

  you have to hit it the other thing I

  don't know if this is true America it

  deluxe what I'm pretty sure it is they

  when you hit the plus you will see the

  stats for the things and you'll notice

  that the wheels change your stats I

  don't know if wings change your stats

  but anyway not all some of the wings

  change your stats but they it's very

  minor waves but anyway like really you

  shouldn't obsess too much about that

  because it a lot of it comes down that

  use it to things here's my advice for

  picking stats when you are not good at

  the courses or not good at the game pick

  acceleration over anything else because

  if you will get are going to get hit or

  make a bad turn or whatever the most

  important thing is to get up to speed

  faster and if you also have difficulty

  and fault the course ladder aren't

  familiar with or whatever prefer

  handling alright so the fastest cars are

  the ones that have bad acceleration high

  top speed and handle slowly and those

  are the hardest to race and it will make

  you feel like you're worse at the game

  I've never really built up to the point

  where I liked using those and seeing

  speed rumors

  speed rumors

  use high acceleration low top speed

  things for the handling purposes it

  leads me to believe that those are a

  sucker's bet so a lot of them like wow

  great speed look at the top speed I'll

  use this thing like the big Mercedes car

  like the shiny gold one from one of the

  earlier mares huge top speed cruddy

  handling you will never get a good time

  with that you'll never win a race

  especially when the million items are

  flying at you so those are the stats I

  would look at handling acceleration and

  don't ignore speed because if you have

  decent handling acceleration and you use

  your boosts and that's the winning

  formula interesting I have to check that

  out you know you could do that and yeah

  hop hop on at you're off jumps yeah like

  it seemed it seems like the the

  character matters the most and in the

  car like is like a small multiplier on

  that and then the tires seem to be a

  smaller multiplier on that and then the

  wing has like a very slight modifier and

  don't forget about bikes yes so why

  should I use bikes or not used bike I

  haven't tried one yet I have never taken

  a shine to bikes but if my impression is

  that bikes have potentially different or

  better handling characteristics than

  cars I'm not sure what they give up I've

  just never liked what ever is different

  about bikes America or date I have not

  it has not worked with me I so I just

  ignore them pretend they don't exist I

  just do everything on cards but your

  mileage may vary usually I go the

  opposite way usually I play as Bowser

  and some kind of big heavy thing because

  I appreciate the high top speed that you

  were just let me not not to go for but

  you're handling this crap though yeah

  well III run off the track a lot but

  then I my top and I use it so long to

  get back up to speed but when top speed

  is ridiculous and I get to crash into

  anybody I want and nothing bad ever

  happens to me well bad things happen if

  you get hit with a shell I mean it's not

  anyway Mauser is probably good for like

  a nun if you don't were not racing with

  computers it was just a bunch of people

  because then you do have a lot of

  defense about like bumping people off

  the track and stuff like that but I

  still I don't kind of go in for that

  what do you play Luigi you seem like a

  Luigi person no I mean Yoshi man same

  here it's been a Yoshi man mm-hmm

  came here I mean Yoshi was the obvious

  choice for the n64 because he was

  clearly the best character yeah but I

  feel like now maybe we have we have not

  only more balance but also more options

  yeah I mean really I'm just picking like

  a mid

  range type of thing and you and it's

  because then 64 line picking it honestly

  like and I've carried Yoshi through all

  the way whether he's the best character

  or not he oh she's my your she's my

  thing you get your two different colors

  now so how do you how does that work if

  you pick your own me is your player I

  don't do that

  I don't know you I've got outfits for

  myself though the Me's actually it says

  that apparently the Me's are these

  figure out their weight class based on

  like the Damis size and weight yeah you

  got to use like we fit to try that

  change your weight class I got a fat

  enough so you could be Bowser so sitting

  here now Marco what do you think you can

  do you're gonna get another switch at

  some point when you can actually get one

  now probably not an above will probably

  just stick with what we have and just

  fight over it that's a very Casey answer

  the problem in not a very Marco answer

  to the problem normally you'd be right

  but so if the game sinks work he would

  already avala well if I could get a hold

  of one yeah probably but yeah so that

  yeah if if there was a better sink

  solution in place for both purchases and

  for saved game data that would make that

  would make that a lot more compelling

  option especially considering like how

  much the accessories cost and how much

  comes with the switch when you buy it so

  that that would be a more compelling

  option in that case but because that is

  not an option or that because there's no

  good solution there that then instead I

  will most likely just take what we have

  and just hope that TIF gets bored of

  Zelda pretty soon but I don't think

  that's on the horizon so we'll see how

  close is she to finishing I can't tell

  you for sure I believe she has just

  defeated the last like big fire monster

  thing that you have to defeat and return

  to their saviors or whatever so it

  appears that they're fairly far in the

  game but so because it's open-world you

  don't have to do anything you could go

  right to the final boss battle as soon

  as you get off of the tutorial area

  essentially you probably die but you

  could so she could go and she could have

  gone before to quote-unquote finish the

  game and she could go now to

  quote-unquote finish the game but merely

  doing that does not mean you are done

  with the game by a long shot I finished

  the game a long time ago and have put in

  you know tens of hours since then and

  continue to put hours into the

  so just because she finishes the game

  don't expect that you're gonna get the

  thing back good eventually she probably

  will get tired of it she's not going to

  find all nine hundred core oxys or

  anything but um she might spend some

  more time trying to get trying to crank

  up a number of shrines and if she's

  paranoid about going into the final

  endgame with enough attributes she might

  send some time you know increasing a

  number of hearts and stuff like that but

  are there any other games coming up that

  I'm gonna want to play

  besides Mario Kart like like are there

  any 2d Mario games on the horizon or am

  I just going to convert to 3d because

  now apparently and it's a Nintendo stuff

  well this is the 3d mirror coming out I

  think you will get that and play it and

  you probably like it

  I don't remember what's on the schedule

  and is what tune which you may or may

  not like yeah I've actually I've never

  played it I don't even all I know is it

  everyone loves it but I don't know I

  can't even tell you what kind of game it

  is it's a you run around and shoot paint

  on people in different areas it's kind

  of like a friendly shooter game instead

  of shooting bullets you're shooting

  paint and painting areas it's it's Nate

  okay so like and this is like I'm sure

  like all these characters in Mario Kart

  that I don't recognize they're probably

  all from these different franchises that

  I've missed right like some of them

  appear we wearing paints MOX

  yeah like the squid the squid people are

  from from splatoon arms is coming out

  which is a new IP which is kind of like

  a weird boxing game with stretchy arms

  which I really don't know how that's

  going to be literally arms they are msl

  a figure maybe was like you know

  armaments but no it's actually arms like

  it that's fantastic okay alright yeah so

  I shouldn't get a second one that I'll

  just I'll be patient with this one you

  are the patience is not in your

  vocabulary sir no it's not it's only a

  matter of time you're probably right

  it is I'm telling you what's going to

  happen is I'm going to call you one day

  from like target and say hey I'm looking

  at a switch do you want me to send it to

  you and you're going to say just I'm

  gonna say and then I'm going to say well

  how fast would you like me to ship it

  and you're going to say overnight you

  know I'm going to say really that's

  going to be like another fifty or a

  hundred dollars and you're going to say

  yeah that's fine just do it that's

  exactly how this entire conversation

  will go I can guarantee it if you were

  Amazon I could get it the next day for

  three bucks

  I am NOT Amazon unfortunately it looks

  like rhyme might be coming out for

  switch unless on this readings are just

  Google just to see the lineup and it's

  showing a bunch shams like yeah yeah

  fighting game Alex and Alex Marco that

  other person is not into this rhyme is

  this coming for switch temp race runs

  bring it's a third person little boy

  running around in a weird mysterious

  ancient world kind of thing okay yeah

  like it's a lot of indie games coming as

  when we get it yeah yeah I think this

  thing's coming to switch f 0 not 0 is

  coming no it's uh Thomas we move down

  and come on right out as f 0 but not but

  I mark already has enough 0 but not yeah

  I had the other one the fast rmx isn't

  it yeah I haven't played a one since

  getting mario kart it was a bunch of a

  little little indie games that you might

  look at yeah honestly Marco I think

  probably what you really be interested

  in isn't probably the next year when

  Virtual Console stuff ramps up yeah I

  would like to see that too like cuz you

  know all the stuff it means funny like

  you know like seeing like you know Zelda

  which is basically a you know a game

  that was obviously intended for the Wii

  U first and then seeing Mario Kart being

  released for the switch that is really

  just a repackaging and slightly expanded

  version of a of a Wii U game it seems so

  new to people like me and Casey who

  totally ignored the Wii U and I feel

  like Nintendo is probably like screaming

  like why didn't you care about these

  games before as they rake in all the

  money well I think they're happy to say

  like we have a ready game library of

  like basically already completed games

  that we just have to port that most

  people haven't seen and like wow this is

  great and so I think it's a great you

  know I don't think they're angry about

  it I think they're happy that they don't

  have to develop all these games from

  scratch there's sort of shovel-ready

  games to just Chuck over there and

  they're all new to you and everyone's

  happy to have them I think it really

  speaks to like not only how big of a

  flop that Wii U was but also just like

  the difference in reception between

  these two platforms like I think at

  being somebody who has been on the

  outside of it and who's only casually

  seen in here and there the Wii U I was

  never tempted to get a Wii U the Wii U

  seemed profoundly uncool in a none

  compelling in a lot of ways and some of

  that might not have been warranted but

  that's how it seemed

  on the outside and the switch just

  seemed like the cool new thing that you

  have to get in on and it's so nice and

  you get it so fun and like I know the

  Wii U was probably that much fun also

  when I came out but for whatever reason

  I was never tempted to get a Wii U and

  because it just seemed it seemed like

  such a bad idea with for no good reason

  again I just see it seemed uncool and

  uncompelled and you you make a few

  changes to the hardware and you release

  basically the same games and now it's

  the coolest thing ever if you can find

  one for cheap it is worth getting the

  Wii U just to play a Nintendo and I mean

  it's not a reason to buy the entire

  console what's that it's there it's

  there packing uh no murmurs packing game

  but it's their game that basically

  demonstrates here's what you can do with

  this wacky hardware that no one really

  picked up on but there are there are

  games in there that give you that kind

  of Wii Sports type experience where I

  have never played a game like this in

  this way before that is super fun

  especially for handle games very often

  with young children for many many years

  when we had the Wii U whenever my son

  would have his friend come over of all

  the gaming hardware we have in the house

  they would choose to play one of the

  minigames in Nintendo land which it was

  an okay mini game but of all really of

  all the things that we have this is what

  you want to play they would play for

  hours just you know week after week

  month after month and I don't even think

  that's the best minigame and ten Allah

  knows all minigames essentially and a

  lot of them are really fun and really

  interesting and I will tell you that you

  have never played a game it would you

  know and never played because it's a

  different hardware arrangement you have

  multiple screens a TV a handheld thing

  playing in the same environment with

  these very strange mechanics with motion

  controls and cameras and so many good

  ideas in there none of which obviously

  is a full-fledged game they're all

  minigames but totally worth it just to

  have that experience if you can find one

  cheap somewhere and probably won't it's

  so uncool