The Incomparable

352: Hold My Space Beer

 

  the Intolerable number 352 May 2017

  welcome back everybody to the

  incomparable very special episode we're

  going to break from our tradition of not

  talking about new release films to talk

  about a new release film that's right

  guardians of the galaxy vol 2 we're

  gonna talk about it I've seen at one

  time I didn't take notes because I was

  watching a movie in the movie theater

  but we're still gonna talk about it with

  these fine people helene Wecker is back

  hello hi it wasn't Zardoz no it was not

  sorry office that was the last thing we

  inflicted on you so you know it wasn't

  Zardoz kelly camonte is also here hi

  Kelly

  hi I'm really excited to be here and get

  to talk about this yay David J Laura's

  here as he is contractually obligated to

  be I think hi David hi so trash Panda is

  that bad is that good I'm just cuz you

  know I get that it's bad and and chips

  uttereth is here chip saw the movie

  twice because he is a professional hi

  chip chains keep us together Jason mmm I

  thought you saw it three times once

  twice three times but I saw the ending

  of the movie once Wow well you did you

  did your work you did your research I

  think that's the important thing does it

  you did your research so uh guardians

  the galaxy vol 2 hot on the heels of

  guardians of the galaxy the original

  volume 1 now retcon that um it was uh

  you know guardians the galaxy the

  original was one of the things about it

  that I think appealed to a lot of people

  is that it was a very different feeling

  movie than what one might expect from a

  Marvel Comics blockbuster and right I

  mean it was like it didn't it didn't do

  much tying in it had the wacky

  soundtrack it was more kind of a fun

  funny adventure and I feel like volume 2

  was very much informed by that like

  let's lean into that let's do sort of

  everything we did the last time

  but a little bit more and a little bit

  further the sound about right that would

  everybody get that sense it's guardians

  of the galaxy in volume let's not make

  it ardian harder that's how they save

  money

  now volume going up in volume yeah the

  Marvel movies up to that point they had

  their light moments uh but guardians the

  galaxy the original was just fun just

  big fun I know some people who didn't

  just embrace it wholeheartedly the way I

  did it was it was like my favorite

  Marvel movie and just magical and fun

  and Star Wars II and stuff and I really

  do think that they saw the things that

  worked about guardians of the galaxy and

  leaned in hard for this one oh yeah and

  I mean I'm I'm right there with you know

  shocked it's my favorite Marvel movie

  because it's just fun and you know I saw

  a lot of reviews of this one before I

  saw it that we're like oh well you know

  it does what the first one did and the

  first one was surprising and this one

  was fine but you know you can't you

  can't do surprise twice so they did

  whatever and and so they were a little

  grumpy they were a little you know muted

  and I came out of this one all you know

  me and the boys saw it together we loved

  it we all three of us liked it better

  than the first one and and the thing

  about both of them that I think the

  reason we love them more than most of

  the Marvel movies to carry on a running

  joke is also location location location

  it's very far away from anything else

  yeah that's totally true one of the

  things I enjoyed about it when I watched

  it was to me it didn't feel like the

  same movie again it just right like they

  knew the moments that worked in the

  first one and sort of like the mix that

  they needed in order for the chemistry

  to happen and so then that's what they

  that's the parts that they sort of made

  like they didn't shoot the same movie a

  second time and like that was sort of

  the impression I got from reading some

  of those same reviews was that people

  were like not into it and I'm like you

  know not everybody goes to a Marvel

  movie for Kenneth Branagh like some

  people go to a movie for something like

  this

  I said not everybody they may not be

  everybody well he only direct Thor so

  after that he got involved but yeah

  but like I I get very much it very much

  feels to me like some of those people's

  expectations weren't managed it feels

  like these are the same people who

  wanted so much more out of say the

  Charlie's Angels movie than they got and

  all I can say to those people is you

  know what it's based on like manage

  those expectations you have to go in to

  me this felt like the first sort of

  summer movie I guess with the air quotes

  that you can totally see on a podcast

  um that I've seen in a long time

  primarily because it was late and fun

  and like there was there were touching

  moments there were some things that that

  totally made me extra happy that I'm

  sure we'll get into later but for the

  most part I just I went in and I had

  popcorn out of a baby group popcorn come

  here and had a great time and when I

  came out I felt better than I had when I

  went in and you know I had been

  completely entertained for those couple

  of hours and it seemed like it was fun

  and so it was I really enjoyed it it

  looked beautiful it sounded beautiful

  the actors all did an amazing job of

  their performances and you know like

  none of the CG stuff was super

  noticeable to me which was one of my

  hang-ups with rogue one so I was into it

  I was there I was like totally with it

  the whole time and had a blast

  I'll be the the person who is more in

  tune with the the critics blasphemer I'm

  sorry sorry um I felt like this movie

  just was much more aware of itself than

  the first one the first one was such a

  startling sort of Revelation and the it

  to me that I went in and I was like I

  didn't expect that in the least and this

  one and I know that that's part of you

  know the first movie and then you know

  sequel itís the the it's it's part of

  what you have to sort of deal with but

  even sort of taking that into account

  it was it wore itself much more heavily

  than the first one if that makes sense

  it will you could see the MA

  tools and the sinews and the strings

  moving in a way that I felt like I

  couldn't with the first and maybe that

  part of that was that the cast of

  characters was a little larger and you

  had to deal with more people sort of

  running around and and being separated

  from each other and not not to say that

  I didn't like it because I really did

  like it but I didn't leave with a song

  in my heart that I did with the first

  one and of course that's impossible

  sometimes to duplicate so so even though

  I I don't want to be the debbie downer

  but I was like this one was a good movie

  but I didn't have the oh my god I want

  to go buy a ticket and see that again

  way the reaction that I did with the

  first one yeah I it's funny I think I'm

  more with Helene here but although my

  experience with the first movie I liked

  it in the theater and every time I've

  seen it since then I've actually liked

  it more so I don't know how I'm gonna

  feel about this one because I felt I

  also liked it I appreciated it I did not

  come out thinking it was the most

  amazing movie ever but it may grow on me

  I do agree I think one of the problems

  with with replicating the success of

  that movie is that it the original is

  that it was a surprise and now we're you

  know it was a surprise departure from

  the tone of a Marvel movie and of course

  with the cosmic setting it it was a

  surprise and the surprise was part of

  the fun and this movie is not a surprise

  this movie is what it said on the tin it

  is repair it's not it can't replicate

  the surprise but it can replicate the

  feelings and that's what it tries to do

  and I think it does a pretty good job

  although there are aspects you know

  James Gunn who wrote and directed this

  movie you know he has his ideas about

  what a guardians of the galaxy movie

  should be and you always have to ask

  like is his idea of what a successful

  guardians of the galaxy movie the same

  as mine or yours or any other viewers

  and the one thing that I'm trying to

  figure out what struck me weird about

  this movie and I think one of them is

  that the original felt a little bit more

  like a travelogue of this weird space

  world and if you think about it what

  happens very early on is

  movie is that Peter and Gomorrah and

  Drax go meet ego and go to his planet

  and they don't leave until the end of

  the movie so they don't you know it's

  not not much of a travelogue the other

  characters go to like one other location

  but basically that part of it is not

  part of what this movie is this movie is

  really about the characters and this

  very specific set of interactions and

  decend discoveries right like self

  discoveries and and secrets that are

  uncovered and again I enjoyed it a lot

  and it might end up really growing on me

  in multiple viewings like the last one

  did but it did feel a little bit

  different like instead of having a pinch

  of all of those different things it had

  like a cup of all of those different

  ingredients and it's that's good

  on one level but it's not the same and

  it's hard to replicate that experience

  and and the thing that did bother me

  about this one is that the the section

  of the movie with with Peter and

  Gomorrah and Drax with Eko a lot of that

  is a lot of waiting and it's very

  passive and it's oh here's this

  wonderful place and you're kind of

  waiting for the shoe to drop but they're

  not really doing anything I felt like

  they were gonna go somewhere else that

  was actually a thing that I had in the

  middle of the movie where it sags and I

  guess again I don't want to be that

  person who's like no I have no I have no

  patience I just want more explosions I

  don't want to be that person right at

  the same time in the middle of this

  movie I was like at that moment where I

  was like oh you know they're not going

  to go anywhere else like I kept waiting

  for there to be a revelation and then

  they have to go somewhere and all that

  it's like nope they're not this is the

  movie they're just gonna be on this

  planet the whole rest of the movie so

  when I first when I first saw the movie

  my the first attempt I made to see the

  movie 2/3 the way into the movie a minor

  emergency happens and I have to leave

  the film so right when Peter Quill's

  eyes go all starfield nieces who can see

  eternity that's when I had the lead

  oh it's lying just because so so nothing

  happened after that it's funny

  exactly he just played catch with his

  dad and everybody had a good time I went

  on a pantheism Cat Stevens as I was

  outside the theater stewing and

  complaining and grumping I'm also

  replaying the movie in my head and it

  felt like a series of episodes of the

  guardians of the galaxy TV series yeah

  is a soap opera and it and I didn't feel

  super Salafists that is better that is

  exactly what I have here in my notes

  this felt to me like the second season

  of the guardians of the galaxy TV series

  compressed into movie life that it was

  it had those beats to it and maybe this

  is like a result of TV becoming more

  cinematic and and and how some of the

  you know what the difference now being

  mainly just length but it was like you

  could almost see where okay this is the

  first episode this is the second episode

  this is where this part is going to come

  back and now we've got the lull this is

  the mid-season low where everyone sort

  of sits around and waits for other

  things can happen off screen and then

  you know it and maybe maybe part of that

  is because of the Marvel Cinematic

  Universe process where it's like you

  know these characters are going to get

  used again and again and again so you

  can't have too much happen to them you

  can't make too many drastic changes that

  all you've got are like these sort of

  character beats and these small changes

  but I really did and I felt like that

  was part of the reason why by the end of

  the movie I felt pretty much the same as

  I had at the beginning of the movie

  about these characters was that we had

  gone through a thing and now we're back

  again and everyone's had a hug and a cry

  and now you know season break and then

  we're going to go on you know next year

  to something else hmm I see when in that

  big SAG in the middle when mantas is

  about to tell Drax there's something

  weird going on and then they don't

  follow through on it then it's like you

  know 25 minutes later oh there's that

  thing she was going to tell you

  it's like no no no no you don't don't

  wait oh so it was like something almost

  happens and that but you know for all

  that I and I think what worked for us

  was the characters it wasn't so much the

  plot although I you know I liked I think

  I liked the plot of this one better than

  the first one I don't know that I liked

  the execution of the plot better but I

  thought it was a little more interesting

  but it was the the characters developed

  a little bit more I think from this one

  than in the first one in the first one

  it's like here's a raccoon he's a

  wisecracking raccoon here's a tree you

  know it and this one allows them all to

  sort of do slightly different things

  yeah the first one's a travelogue the

  set right the second was a character

  study it did great with with with such a

  lean in on the family theme that and and

  this is this is this movie is all about

  family and it gets super sentimental

  about that in the end and it's either

  going to hit you or it's not depending

  on depending on your appetite for

  character driven stuff and fruit

  sentimentality I suppose well and I'm a

  sentimental person I totally am I have

  to put that out there and also this

  worked for me because one of the points

  that it tries to drive home you know is

  that family a you know the definition of

  family is up to you whoever you are

  your family is yeah is is partly up to

  you there's chosen family and then

  there's like the people you are related

  to and sometimes the ones you consider

  your family and keep close and really

  care about you know aren't necessarily

  people who are genetically related to

  you and I'm an adopted kid and I have

  divorced parents who remarried other

  people so my definition of family has

  always been flexible so anytime anybody

  else sort of gets into that realm and

  sort of normalizes that and makes it

  okay that I have this other definition

  of these people in my life who I care

  about and love and and they are my

  family and you know a blood test isn't

  going to tell you that I'm always really

  pleased to see that in a movie and I'm

  also a complete

  marshmallow so anytime I get something

  sentimental like that as a bonus like

  the whole thing with with yondu made me

  so happy yeah it's it's also fair I'd

  say I think it's fair play if somebody

  comes out of this movie going what the

  heck was that all about

  I would recommend that they look at the

  first scene of the original movie I mean

  it is about yep

  Peter's mom dying and him getting that

  mean the cassette tape and with the old

  music that's not just there I mean it is

  there to set the tone for the movie if

  you want to take the outside the I guess

  that's the dualist perspective my god I

  can't believe I'm go in here but right

  but from the internal logic he watt Sony

  in the internal logic perspective of the

  movie I mean what that is about is about

  Peter and his mom and that she's picked

  this music that she loves from the 70s

  even though he's a kid in the 80s and

  and that's what that's what that's all

  about from the first scene where she

  dies and he runs away with the stuff and

  then is kidnapped by yondu and then it

  all get you know it's this movie is kind

  of paying off Peter story but totally

  fair play like this this movie is not

  diverging from like the themes of the

  previous movie in any way I think it's

  completely fair in doing that I just and

  I love that part of it I like the aspect

  I feel like I'm something else we can

  throw in here I feel like the

  relationship between Gamora

  and nebula is more interesting than in

  the last movie yes and you know much

  right and the sisters and they don't get

  along because their data stano's what

  you're going to do but I felt like there

  could have been even more there that I

  was a little disappointed that there

  wasn't more but I was happy that it was

  more than the last movie and that adds

  to the the piling on of the family stuff

  I have to admit though the thing that

  maybe struck me wrong and it also

  explains the SAG in the middle of the

  movie is like Kurt Russell shows up and

  he's Peter's great god dad and they play

  ball they play catch and stuff like that

  and he has a planet that is paradise and

  he takes them back there and you know I

  don't know I kind of expected something

  like I expected that movie to play with

  me a little bit right because it's so

  clear from the beginning that where this

  story is going which is not going to be

  all yeah right he's not gonna be all he

  seems and there's gonna be something bad

  and it's gonna have to be resolved but

  it turns out that he's not the guy that

  Peter thinks he is

  all of that right like going in first

  scene you're like alright I know where

  this is going and unfortunately that's

  all it did that is exactly where I wait

  that's it what they do is instead of

  play with it or string it along in an

  interesting way they just cut away to

  rocket and yondu right which is way more

  interesting I think that was maybe at

  the heart of it one of my main the main

  reasons I was sort of a little

  disappointed coming out of the movie was

  that Peter quill was such the heart and

  soul of the first movie and I you know

  there's so many arrested man children in

  in cinema in modern cinema and if you

  want to take like the ultimate arrested

  man child and give him the best reason

  possible for being that arrested man

  child it is Peter quill it is that

  literally he was stolen from Earth on

  the night of his mother's death when he

  was a kid and in so many ways he is

  still back there at the hospital bedside

  with his mom and that just informed the

  entire first movie it was the reason why

  he risked his life to go back and get

  the Walkman and all of those sort of

  character beats that I felt like this

  movie sort of sold him short he spends a

  lot of time standing around looking at

  Kurt Russell's giant dioramas of himself

  and you know sort of getting faded

  information Ramage oh very look sort of

  plastic extruded looking things of

  himself yeah it was very 3d printed but

  it got weird yes it like I really hope

  he has like that Kurt Russell ego has

  like the giant Hall of dioramas of

  himself there all the time and it's not

  just for when his son comes to visit it

  it's like if you just sort of wanders

  through them looking at them every once

  in a while going yep I did that was a

  good one there's a separate hole that's

  just Kurt Russell films it's awesome I

  imagine there's like a Mount Rushmore

  that's just a bunch of ego heads and

  then there's a Hall of oil paintings

  that's all just paintings of ego and the

  like that's just the whole planet is

  just entirely two millennia it's a giant

  doll museum it's Mount Russell more and

  it would have been funny funnier to have

  it right I mean a like you could play

  you could play into it and haven't blown

  ago geez and then have Peter realized

  well no he's more nuanced than that and

  then find out no he's really not that

  but they don't do that either he's just

  like ego is I would say and I wasn't

  solving a mystery here ego is exactly

  what I expect him to be in the grand

  sense of being a disappointing dad and

  so and you're right

  Helene its sidelines Peter quill for a

  large portion the movie he is defanged

  and not interesting and not doing

  anything he's just sort of standing

  around saying whoa a lot yeah not only

  is he passive because of Kurt Russell

  he's passive because of Gamora you made

  me come here you made me listen to him

  now you want me to leave there's no

  there's no real choice on his part it's

  very odd and I get the argument that

  maybe Peter quill is the emotional

  center of guardians of the galaxy but

  he's not as outsized a personality as

  some of the other characters and so

  maybe that's James Gunn's decision like

  I'm going to give Peter this this

  emotional arc and outside of it I'm

  going to have some shenanigans with

  these other other characters that are

  going to be the more action and more

  kind of zany jokey material I get that

  it's just but I you know I think Peters

  more than just the emotional Center

  right I mean he's also a funny character

  Chris Pratt is a very talented actor and

  and so that's because I mean to take a

  step away from Peter and ego for a

  minute like we do have there's there is

  so much great so we get baby Groot for

  this entire movie until the end credits

  uh and he made the movie uh and boy you

  know I I feel like that was the moment

  where somebody had a funny idea to put

  baby Groot in the credits to show write

  that show the group didn't die or at

  least the part of Groot survived and is

  now going to be baby Groot and dances in

  the credits of the first movie right and

  then you come to this movie like what

  are we gonna do with Groot it's like

  we're gonna just do baby group baby

  Groot was so great can we can we sustain

  that for a whole movie the answers yeah

  yeah you can yeah it's a it's amazing

  it's a one hell of a calculated move

  but yes you can but it totally works and

  then at the very end we see grumpy

  teenage Groot but and that brings me to

  not only before we go into the other

  characters like baby Groot baby Groot is

  really great throughout but that opening

  sequence is one of the I want to say

  it's the best opening sequence in a

  movie I've seen since Watchmen in that

  the way the the confidence the way that

  it's shot where it is just being Groot

  and we basically stay on baby Groot and

  as an entire huge sci-fi battle happens

  behind him out of focus and off screen

  and with sound effects and I love the

  it's so great and so clever yeah to do

  it that way and it's not like you can't

  see it it's not like they were saving

  money like it's still very expressive to

  render space octopus monsters but what

  what a choice to do it and I mean the

  movie kind of won my heart right there

  that we have baby the adventures of baby

  group who just wants to dance you say

  the opening scene of the first one is

  kind of the the mission statement of the

  whole thing this scene is kind of the

  mission statement of this it's saying

  you know here's all this action this is

  all still here you're not going to miss

  anything but we're focusing on the

  character we're focusing on yeah that's

  this it is that explicit as now yeah

  and it's a hell of a dance remember the

  third the third time I saw it it was in

  3d and the the 3d actually really really

  really pops enjoys chip I want to know

  why you had to see this three times you

  told us about the first one what

  happened a second time second time was

  actually sitting through the whole thing

  because dammit I wanted to see how it

  ended and then the third time was hey

  I'm going to be on the incomparable ah

  okay but he had to leave to get back for

  the podcast right although this time

  Rockets handing yondu the spacesuit in

  the jet pack and I'm like I know what's

  coming

  oh to go yeah this episode of the

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  the incomparable so baby Groot like

  total total triumph right I mean it's

  like how do you replace Groot such a

  wonderful character can you can this

  baby Groot version do it and you know

  he's unreliable even more unreliable

  than Groot Groot was already let's let's

  not whitewash it Groot was not reliable

  but baby Groot is really not reliable

  the who note that but leaks the whole

  extend and immediately I need you to

  steal this thing I need you to steal

  this thing from my bedside stand right

  it's just I it's in there I need you to

  get it and I really did enjoy that just

  went on about 20 seconds too long but I

  was willing to give it to it because it

  was baby group being baby Groot he's

  just so awesome I like the escalation

  where first he's bringing stuff back and

  then and then after they do that for a

  little while then they show him a little

  bit and then you're like oh geez what's

  going to happen now but it's just yeah

  it's in greeting Lee increasingly

  ludicrous

  so that was yeah baby Groot what a it's

  a good

  decision great is that funny ho yeah oh

  my god is expression on the show forget

  it you talk about Michael Rooker just

  for a minute yeah let's do it

  oh yeah don't do spectacular I liked him

  in the first movie a lot and I like that

  he was back and then they gave him so

  much more to do in this movie which is

  which is good because again

  this is all you should see the movie

  we're gonna spoil everything here but he

  dies at the end and it's sad but he was

  so great in the whole movie that I was

  happy that we got that much of Michael I

  mean I like Michael Rooker and

  everything I loved him in the in the

  walking dead back when I was watching

  The Walking Dead and as yondu in the

  first movie and he is really great in

  this that kinda steals Days of Thunder

  it's a good Brad so far I've liked him

  because he's like your villain that

  turns out not to be the villain and he

  plays it really well that he's and we

  get the revelation that he was really

  saving Peter by not but not delivering

  him to his dad which is which is that

  you know that's such a beautiful turn he

  wasn't a spell after all that was the

  line at the end of mostly I was

  interested because I didn't really

  remember yondu from the books and so I

  was curious where they were gonna go

  with it what it was going to look like

  and I really liked that he got those

  super emotional scenes and I really

  thought it was like I was fascinated as

  soon as he ended up on the ship with

  rocket you know how like what's gonna

  happen here cuz they're both little rays

  of sunshine this is going to be an

  interesting trip you know and it was

  super fun to get to listen to them and

  one of the things that I loved about all

  of this was that nobody was sort of

  making their like serious heartfelt

  declaration you know it was all stuff

  that sort of got like flew out of

  people's mouths before they really

  thought about it you know like the whole

  thing with um nebula and Gamora you know

  was you wanted a sparring-partner and I

  just wanted a sister you know like whoa

  that changed their whole dynamic all at

  once and you know his is a yondu's

  assessment of rocket as rocket sort of

  gets more angry like you know yo

  no me and he's like oh yeah watch this

  this is exactly why and watching them

  interact myspace beer look like blurting

  that stuff out which is like the way

  that sort of thing happens in life and

  so watching that go on was just super

  gratifying to me that we got so much

  interesting stuff out of him and then

  when it became clear what was going to

  happen to him I was very very sad and

  what made me the saddest was I'm Mary

  Poppins y'all that was yes that moment

  that moment was gleeful and I jut like

  that's what makes guardians the galaxy

  for me like yondu dies at the end and

  we're all heartbroken but before that

  happened I'm Mary Poppins yeah it was

  amazing and and can we just take a

  moment for the the scene where they're

  they're locked away and and baby Groot

  is going off and bringing the stuff back

  because when you think about it he's the

  only human being in that scene anything

  you buy it you buy it

  he's yeah beautiful acting against

  against the computer animation he

  benefits so much from the reduced role

  that Chris Pratt's given yes you know

  he's and he steps up and carries so much

  more of the movie in terms of you know

  being fascinating to watch

  I really wish they hadn't tried to

  shoehorn in so much backstory for him so

  quickly in the scene immediately after

  when when they're in the brothel or

  whatever it the whole rabbit is the

  whole ravager this is Sylvester Stallone

  who I'm judging you it's like okay

  you're reintroducing us to yondu and

  this is going to give us sort of the the

  emotional hook of why he got kicked out

  of the Reavers that is then going to

  turn and be in the end of the movie but

  you're giving it him this opposite

  Sylvester Stallone and all I'm doing is

  looking at this movie thinking why is

  Sylvester Stallone one of those water

  lines are you making

  Wester Stallone deliver yeah yeah and

  then and he's just standing there it's

  like he doesn't even so let's just want

  to seem to try to be anyone other than

  Sylvester Stallone so it's like he's

  this giant Rambo shaped hole in the

  movie that is just drawing all of this

  energy to him and I can't afterwards I

  was like wait what was he saying to

  yondu what was the thing with yawn doing

  kids what was that and then I had to

  sort of piece it back together after

  like when they were making back

  references to it I think it could very

  easily have been I was you know

  delivering these kids I figured it out

  you were the one I saved without all of

  the guy getting kicked out of the

  Reavers and and you know sort of

  reestablishing himself at the funeral

  and all that just seemed to me to be a

  lot of unnecessary filler that was

  surrounding and sort of obscuring the

  thing that I wanted to see which was

  just more of yondu being the asshole

  with a heart of gold that that I think

  saw on the first one yeah well and

  filler but yeah and you don't really get

  it til the end of the movie setting up

  perhaps something for the next movie

  which that's a common problem in yeah we

  gonna you know cuz we're watching it and

  you know you're watching the opening

  credits he's he's still Wester Stallone

  pops up in the opening credits and then

  he's in the movie for like I don't know

  three minutes yeah any God why would he

  get a credit for that and then at the

  very end you're like oh because he's

  coming bad and Ving Rhames and Michelle

  yeah right that were it's like why I

  don't even realize that that was

  Michelle Yeoh until I went to DB and I

  was I think they get mushy Leona's like

  oh wait a minute

  oh okay for those who don't know there

  was originally a Marvel comic called

  guardians of the galaxy that featured a

  bunch of heroes from the far future and

  then they redid guardians of the galaxy

  with a sect a set up much more like what

  we have in these movies that that group

  at the end with Sylvester Stallone and

  Ving Rhames and Michelle Yeoh and the

  voice robot voice of Miley Cyrus those

  are those are intended to be vo

  regional guardians of the galaxy it take

  an homage to the original guardians of

  the galaxy at the end more than it is

  anything else

  I didn't that I don't look at him right

  and the sovereigns and hinting at atom

  atoms Adam warlock warlock yeah you know

  it's like that's a lot of stuff they're

  setting up for the the third I'm not

  entirely sure other than the Adam

  warlock thing I don't think they're even

  I don't think it's even a set up

  necessarily I think it's like it's just

  heavy laying on the references and it

  may be all that there is

  so maybe okay so uh so rocket in this

  what what I'm wondering what people feel

  about how rocket was handled because I

  feel like he he's a fun character I'm

  not sure he had a lot further to go

  emotionally and he so like you know I

  don't think he had as much work to be

  done on him to like deep in his

  character as some of the other

  characters in the movie so instead he's

  sort of like paired with yondu and they

  have a you know I'm just like you we're

  not we're not that different you and I

  kind of moments but I appreciated rocket

  I think he's great but I'm not quite

  sure how much development he had to have

  here see I thought I thought he had a

  lot of development just because you know

  he starts at you go alright he's still

  stealing things yeah Steven got her

  quite it is the whole plot is his fault

  right and and he's like you know I'm not

  like you you're not like me come on um

  but then also not just realizing that

  yeah alright yondu and I are kind of

  kind of like and oh wait a minute yonder

  was actually kind of a good guy uh and

  and so he sort of sees more of a

  Redemption as Redemption more as a

  possibility for himself even if he

  doesn't necessarily get there at the end

  of the movie we don't know we'll see

  yeah I think he'll still be stealing

  batteries in vol 3

  I hope so raccoons they just get a

  little bad about it I mean you know but

  yeah III thought I thought he actually

  had the most interesting development

  besides yondu I'm not sure that I saw

  that level of development there I

  thought that Brad Cooper did a great job

  as usual with the voice I thought the

  animation for rocket was phenomenal

  especially facial there's a scene where

  he's suddenly

  he's like stretched out and I was just

  like man look at that fur like it is

  just like amazing like how yeah it's

  amazing where he goes where he goes from

  the beginning of the movie to the end of

  the movie I don't see a lot of distance

  traveled um just he gets he has a moment

  with yondu and then it's back to smashy

  smashy yeah well I mean Drac similarly I

  feel like we got we learned a lot of

  important things about Drax and his

  sadness and his tragic backstory in the

  first movie and in this movie I feel

  like they're confident enough in Drax

  and Rocket but with Drax especially like

  Drax is really funny

  everything Drax does is funny let's just

  use Drax to be funny and they do drag

  his ex Rex is amazing again I love every

  I wanted more

  Drax because Drax is so great and so

  funny with his no subtext always tells

  the truth

  and I just I enjoy him so much so again

  I don't need all these characters to

  evolve I'm okay with it it was just more

  Drax but didn't it feel like Drax was a

  little sudden because when we first meet

  him you know he's seen some stuff and

  he's very sort of serious and we don't

  get a lot of um joy and mirth I guess

  from him and it seems like in this movie

  like every time we see him he ends up

  cracking himself up or something we

  found he's found his family right his

  old family died again it's the themes of

  family right his this is his new family

  and he's got a home again right but

  there was never like a nod to that for

  me and so I'm just like why is he

  laughing all the time what happened and

  then like you know they start hitting me

  over the head with family and you know

  like I said I'm never going to complain

  about that but like I had to go back and

  sort of apply that to Drax later as

  opposed to him having said something you

  know cuz he's a blurter as much as he

  was laughing through the whole movie and

  he's just sort of there to be funny he

  also had what for me was one of the most

  effective emotional beats of the movie

  which was that when he was just sitting

  on egos planet looking

  out over like that this gorgeous Vista

  and he was you know he mentioned that

  that he reminded him of something he'd

  taken his daughter to see and mantas

  touched him and started crying and he's

  just standing sitting there with this

  smile on his face and it was such a

  sophisticated moment that I was so glad

  that the movie still trusted its

  audience enough to know you take that in

  and appreciate it for what it was

  because mantis

  after she after after she sort of breaks

  down in tears she almost immediately

  pulls back a little bit and she's sort

  of sitting there with that sort of sad

  stoic expression as well and I love what

  that communicates but mentioning Drax

  brings me and and mantis brings me to if

  I have a big problem with guardians the

  galaxy

  both this movie and the previous one

  it's the broadness of the humors hmm and

  when and part of Bro humor is a certain

  level of jocular cruelty where you know

  your trash panda is worse that sort of

  thing but when the humor is directed at

  mantis it feels like bullying to me

  because it's the movie and the

  characters are making fun of her for

  being naive and innocent and when that

  kind of humor is being delivered towards

  mantis from Drax compared to uh you just

  need a woman who's pathetic to quill

  they come across as very very different

  to me and it makes me feel uncomfortable

  fair enough yeah yeah I wasn't thrilled

  with her character she had I liked I saw

  a couple of critiques that were like oh

  can we be done with empaths already and

  I think empaths I think it's still a fun

  concept especially for moments like the

  one with with her and Drax where she

  starts crying

  but when what was missing was agency it

  wasn't just that she could you know the

  fact that you can

  feel other people's emotions that in

  itself should make her this sort of

  helpless sort of wringing her hands all

  the time character she just she was just

  there I don't even know why she was

  there in the end she was there to put he

  go to sleep I get was it yes that was it

  yeah no and to explain that his secret

  when he would wouldn't be ready to

  reveal it and and and get the plot

  moving but yeah I agree I it sort of

  like I felt like I wanted more from her

  about like who she was and why she was

  everything she's meant to be an innocent

  and she's been raised by you know out on

  this planet essentially on her own and I

  I I understand that you know the Drax

  saying that she's hideous didn't bother

  me because it didn't bother me because

  it's um first off she's not and it's

  space and Drax it has very weird very

  weird standards and I enjoyed the payoff

  of that which is that he says no no

  you're beautiful on the inside which I

  again because it's being consistent

  Drax's standards of beauty are not the

  same as other people's and he doesn't

  have any subtext so I was okay with it

  especially since she's most clearly not

  hideous

  I thought that that was a funny a funny

  joke at Drax's expense because he what

  he sees is not but then again I didn't

  have a problem with the doctor not being

  able to tell Clara's age for the same

  reason which is it's an alien creature

  and where they're they're the butt of

  the jokes because they don't understand

  people so I was okay with those how I

  that was how I took Drax was uh was the

  same way it didn't feel it felt to me

  like um he was sort of uh dipping her

  aunt Anna in the inkwell to kind of you

  know make that joke like I'm gonna be

  mean to you because I actually like you

  and I don't know how to process that um

  so that was for my god was that a Little

  House on the Prairie joke it totally was

  oh wow wow wow

  that was kinda that was how I took it

  was like he was just trying to convince

  her that he didn't like her you know

  it's that same sort like you know that

  this dynamic is still going

  on in grade schools to this very day and

  I and when he first said it I took him

  at face value it didn't occur to me that

  there was any such subterfuge there or

  anything because I'm like maybe he

  really doesn't like her because she's

  like half the size and nowhere near as

  blue as what he generally prefers you

  know like I don't know what ladies look

  like on Drax's planet so I I sort of

  thought like he was just being honest

  with her the way he was being honest

  with Peter you need a woman who is

  pathetic like you you know I'm okay I

  guess he's just going to be kind of mean

  to her as well and for me that was why

  the payoff of that moment where they

  were there sitting looking out at the

  sunset or whatever was their doing um

  after she touches him and can feel what

  he's feeling that's why for me that had

  some payoff because I just felt like he

  he was letting her because he could have

  told her no he could have moved away or

  something and he didn't do it and so it

  was sort of to me it just felt like

  maybe they were starting to be friends

  maybe he was accepting her and then he

  did give her the pep talk

  you know you can do this I believe in

  you and I thought that that was also a

  really nice moment between the two of

  them and then the payoff towards the end

  when he's being buried by ego and tries

  to save her life and trying to hold her

  up so they're up and that's great I do

  still think that the movie is very

  unkind to mantis I mean it's not oh yeah

  exes behavior it's yes it's they'll give

  you that one even in that even in the

  even in the trailers where they made

  even a bigger deal of her getting hit by

  the debris at the end of the trailer and

  that's played for laughs ya know Drax

  this thing doesn't bother me but you're

  right she is she's the butt of many

  jokes and it's uh yeah it's I agree it's

  not it's not great yeah yeah um what do

  people think of the sovereign the gold

  the gold people this is sort of like I

  feel like a the next step after the the

  xandarians in the first movie where I

  think James Gunn likes to have really

  kind of highfalutin persnikitty aliens

  and in this case they're bad well you

  you have to have Margaret Dumont if you

  have the Marx Brothers yeah

  I mean I love I love the sovereigns and

  they also they play video games all of

  their fights are viable by a video game

  which made me laugh a lot but you know

  they're they're perfect and they will

  they are they are going to stop them

  because they stole batteries and and

  therefore they must die it's a problem

  though if every time you hire somebody

  to kill the last people who stole from

  you and they all steal from you like you

  you're never gonna get an arrest they

  were such a device they just slid

  straight off my brain i I just

  faceless gold people who are like out

  there they I found them funny but

  they're not like they're impervious they

  they're made to slide I think they may

  be actually be coated in death lon

  they're made of gold yeah well space

  space Teflon they are designed they are

  they are purely a plot device to create

  a great complication and that gets

  everybody to ego eventually um again

  going back to my first viewing of the

  movie and having to check out two-thirds

  the way through I got way more sovereign

  per capita and and that was not fun

  because they were just they were just

  there it was loads of fun watching the

  arcade scenes first of all the arcade

  gag is hysterical but second I'm sitting

  there watching it with my teenage son

  who is very much an online gamer and and

  a shouter and a Yeller and a cursor

  about it and the bit with a bit towards

  the end where there's the one the one

  ace pilot left who's trying to take out

  the Milano and all of the other

  sovereigns are crowded around him

  encouraging him on and then he blows up

  and they say oh you suck my my son just

  goes yes yes that's called knowing your

  audience yes

  what I gotta say I mean I love at the

  end when they show up partly because

  that's the best use of the song wham bam

  shang-a-lang I've heard I love it was

  just yeah I love the music direction in

  both of these films when they use the

  chain with the slow-mo walk

  yeah normally I'm like I just roll my

  eyes in the slow-mo walk but I have such

  a deep and um my affection for the chain

  is is just it yeah it makes everything

  else go away so so I was just I was just

  there for that was like the moment I was

  like yes yes take me with you in the

  slow-mo walk as long as long as we're

  talking about Fleetwood Mac and and and

  love being the thing that will kill you

  yes let's just do this I really liked

  the subtext that Fleetwood Mac brought

  to them so uh so let's talk a little bit

  about about Gomorrah and nebula because

  that's one of the things that I know

  there was a lot of talk about the these

  characters in the first film and here

  they are largely pitted against each

  other they kind of capture nebula and

  then she sort of escapes but then she

  sort of helps them and they get to they

  get to have a little bit of an emotional

  I mean again it's a weird relationship

  because they're both children of Thanos

  and that you know I've always been

  unclear on exactly what nebulas deal is

  she's got replacement parts and things

  like that but we did get to see in the

  family theme here right they they they

  seem to reach some sort of understanding

  of each other by the end of this movie

  that they did not have at the beginning

  or indeed in the last movie Karen Gillan

  is ear is up and down as an actress in

  Doctor Who um yes she's she's people I

  think she's generally good but sometimes

  she nails it and sometimes she doesn't

  quite um but the episode of Doctor Who

  that features her as an older pet as an

  old-time time duplicate the girl who

  waited um she is so fantastic in her and

  that one and that's the Karen Gillan

  that I saw in this movie I was so

  impressed with what she did she has she

  showed so much more range so much more

  steel she's not just randomly snarly she

  is swaggering she but she has funny

  she's just just rolling her eyes at the

  other people so much happening there um

  nebula is great and karen gillan is

  great yeah their their relationship in

  the first movie was one of the things

  that I was disappointed in in that

  because it's not very there's not very

  much development at all there's not it's

  like here are two women pit them against

  each other done and and you know she's

  an indestructible killing machine okay

  yeah this is the relationship I wanted

  to see there I wanted to see a little

  bit more of that set up in the first

  film but I thought it was it was really

  good in this just as is

  well getting the whole like the first

  movie had some problems I think script

  wise where there was supposed to be

  Thanos and then they were like no no we

  need fan OHS for the Avengers eventually

  and so like so umit's make it Ronin but

  then he's not there

  he's not their dad so they have to like

  have this weird like well we'll move

  some of their own and stuff here but

  we'll also keep Thanos and they'll talk

  about Thanos and you know I think it's I

  think their relationship suffered

  because of that decision in the first

  movie yes and and you're right in in the

  end she's just a secondary baddie

  she's like the the the the the thugs go

  before that sent out by the main bad

  eight yeah right and and cut and not

  that interesting and he or she's she's a

  lot more interesting oh yeah yeah so

  it's it's it's good um Gamora I would

  say Gamora has a tough it's a tough part

  because so with when she's wisk got to

  be the grown-up yeah so when she's with

  her sister at least there's this sister

  dynamic and you can see her learning and

  they fight and there's rocks collapsing

  and all those things but but with quill

  yeah she's like she's she's like the

  questioner and trying to bring him down

  from his high and that is a sort of a

  thankless role in the in the movie and

  anything like this that be the person

  who has to be like snap out of it this

  paradise that you're seeing can't be

  real it's a tough that's a tough part

  and you know it's she ends up sort of

  coming across as the Cyclops

  she's the hmm she said she's the one

  who's the has to be the adult in the

  room and she knows it at all times and

  she's got to hurt all of these

  ridiculous personalities and she ends up

  feel

  a little stiff and uninteresting I think

  because of it and so I was glad to see

  the stuff that she had with nebula in it

  it gave her a little bit of something to

  learn and you could also see her

  reflexes like I don't care I'm just

  going to hit my sister because that's

  what I'm trained to do that's that's

  just the way things have been and that

  was that that was something she had to

  get over but yeah the stuff with Peter

  just seemed really undeveloped like in

  the very beginning of the relation of

  the month are on the screen and I was

  like wait a minute so they're exactly

  where they were at the end of the first

  movie relationship-wise like I was

  totally expecting that they had had a

  full relationship and then broken it off

  and that it was going to be them

  learning like what had gone wrong and

  why they had to sort of reconfigure and

  get back to where they were and not like

  oh where do we've just been in a holding

  pattern for whatever span of time it is

  between the first movie in the second

  that they wouldn't have had you know had

  a conversation since then yeah even if

  it's odd it's still six months I mean it

  it is sort of indicative of the whole TV

  season style and I mean even bringing in

  cheers and the whole will they won't

  they

  alright I will say he's exactly right

  about Sam Cooke uh but again there's

  there's that whole you know you made me

  come here now you want me to leave and

  they don't they don't actually really do

  much with that there could have been so

  much more of you know yes I did think

  this was the right thing to do and no

  you we have to go now because I was

  wrong that would have been a much more

  interesting note to play with and and

  and to develop their relationship and

  both of their characters too because

  here's this mistake I've made I got us

  into this part of the plot and we should

  go as an accidental side-effect though

  for the sort of the way

  sort of undercooked I do appreciate that

  Gomorrah doesn't spin the movie the

  whole movie just basically falling over

  quill yes yes she what she maintains her

  agency and her independence and her and

  her strength as a character throughout I

  think in part because they they treat

  the relationship with restraint in the

  end it's something unspoken and I yeah I

  would like to have seen them do more

  with it but I also wonder if if they had

  done more with it would I have bought it

  as much I don't know well what was funny

  to me about that was he made the cheers

  reference and and I'm like no wait

  moonlighting and I'm like wait Peter

  wouldn't have been old enough to be

  watching moonlighting and appreciate it

  strictly speaking he would have been old

  enough to watch tears I think he was

  abducted before cheers came on missing

  Shh okay I thought it was it would I

  thought no that's not that's not true

  than that cheers Cheers premiered in

  1982 Peter quill was abducted in 1988

  okay I was gonna say 80 I thought was 83

  so 98 at least a little bit of 1988 it's

  it's the opening night but in the first

  movie there's a title that says 1988 I

  thought it was 83 - nope okay sorry

  lucky

  no I thought that cheers was 83 not 82

  and I thought I knew he was abducted

  after that so that means he never had to

  put up with Rebecca on Cheers

  oh oh lucky by to say I had the same

  thought about moonlighting and which was

  85 and I'm a little surprised that I

  mean yeah he might have been young but I

  and didn't understand all sorts of shows

  that I was too young for it would have

  been that was the obvious there but he

  didn't yeah he didn't go to the best

  moonlighting was the one that like my

  parents let me watch Cheers they did not

  let me watch moonlighting yeah I don't

  know what it was about the it was just

  that much more adult just like a little

  bit more adult yes maybe yeah genre came

  on after you were in bed that I believe

  it was four years of sexual tension you

  could cut within me there's there's a

  line in guardians the galaxy where I

  really thought they were going to go

  there where he where I really expected

  him to say you know what the

  isn't Cheers it's moonlighting and

  that's not what the law is and I was

  like you're right there you're right

  there just say it like this it would

  have been it would have been great it

  would have been amazing but uh they

  didn't didn't they're there were enough

  pop-culture references in this movie

  let's uh let's be clear there were many

  how could that kid not have Bruce Willis

  as like his personal hero he lives up on

  the notice cut to the chase music boys

  like how is that not the show that he

  would you know yeah great good point but

  I did like the fact that you know he's

  he makes the one pop-culture reference

  and then he's just so mad he's

  completely at sea and he can't think of

  anything so it would be a show that

  doesn't exist and it did like that he

  found himself backed into that corner it

  just kept kept at it anyway it was

  pretty great I did like that so I have a

  lot of complex headcanon about how those

  cassette tapes are still playing and and

  uh

  and the muscle pencils nasal tape well I

  think it involves like alien technology

  is used to make duplicates of the tapes

  or the tapes content and they're saved

  in other forms too so that he can still

  have the music even if the tapes die and

  that perhaps there's some sort of new

  power source that's been retrofitted

  into the Walkman in order for it to play

  it or perhaps they smuggle in some of

  those things that come off earth in

  various forms because of course at the

  end of the movie he gets a Zune with 300

  songs on it it's what everybody's

  listening to how must Jay Allard have

  felt after this the punch line good

  punch line 300 song they find like the

  one Zune that's still around where did

  they learn to take hours up yeah it is

  amazing that mp3 players are now like

  old signifiers because watching the

  first episode of iron fist there's a

  whole like thing that it dwells on that

  he's got an original iPod because he's

  been gone 15 years and I'm like wow mp3

  players are relics that used that are

  used to date characters no good Lord

  could we talk about crag Lin for a

  second he the I had to look his name up

  and IMDB after the end of the movies

  Kirk from Gilmore Girls but he's also

  the directors younger brother and he's

  and he's um yondu's like ii guess he's

  such a fun sweet character um

  he seems like it was he in the first

  movies he yes was he there okay he he he

  seems like he's sort of there by

  accident but he's like capable enough

  that he can get his feet under him and

  and make decisions and and sort of move

  the plot along when the Moot plot needs

  moving along and I love the it was my

  favorite part of the credit sequences is

  him trying to trying to power the arrow

  and I just I would totally watch more of

  him I don't know if I would want him to

  like have his own movie or whatever cuz

  I don't know if his character is rounded

  enough for that but he he was the only

  surprise to me in this movie I think was

  that he was just sort of there being

  sweet and awkward and being upset that

  that he'd accidentally started this um

  this mutiny you just from asking a

  question and and that he then felt that

  he needed to redeem himself after that I

  felt like in some ways he had like the

  biggest character journey of anyone in

  well except maybe for quill but that's

  only because like that entire character

  journey was just shoehorned and

  completely but the I just I just liked

  him he was there he wasn't doing all

  that much but what he was doing was

  enough and it was great and I loved him

  mm-hmm

  I enjoyed him very much he also does

  rock it on set ah yeah that's part of

  part of why he's there I was going to

  mention seeing him so we do have the

  mutiny against yondu by the Ravagers and

  and that's one of those things that

  kragle and ends up regretting it and he

  ends up sort of like getting them

  ends up sort of like getting them

  out of it again I do want to mention at

  least the extended series of jokes about

  the lead mutineer whose name is Jason

  face and why would you have a name is

  taser taser face and that just made me

  laugh a lot there is a Marvel character

  named taser face and I think James Gunn

  just decided that he thought that would

  be really funny the idea that somebody

  picks a name that he thinks is super

  intimidating and everybody laughs at it

  because it's ridiculous because he's

  taste based you wait wait your name is

  taser face yeah amazing

  I enjoyed that that was though some fun

  you know I I I can complain about the

  saggy middle and the fact that Kurt

  Russell like Kurt Russell I love Kurt

  Russell he kind of you know he does what

  he does what's expected of him he's he's

  chummy at the beginning and then at the

  end he gets growly and evil and he's

  fine but you know that part of the movie

  didn't really work for me it was it was

  okay but everything around it I really

  enjoyed that's the thing is I did enjoy

  this movie and I may enjoy it more on

  other viewings knowing what I know now

  about how its shaped but you know it I

  did but like the Kurt Russell stuff was

  just it's a good idea and I really

  wanted to see Kurt Russell and and and

  Chris Pratt kind of like have more to do

  and that part is I'm a little

  disappointed that that they didn't get

  more to do because you're Russell's not

  much at all he's super charismatic and I

  was doing in a really really long movie

  yeah I will say this this is the best

  this now the best Kurt Russell Sylvester

  Stallone film out there if they had

  taken the you have godlike powers thing

  more if they done more with it so that

  they done anything with it I think that

  anything with it you're right so that

  when there's that reveal that of course

  he's the one who put the tumor and and

  and Meredith's brain when so that

  there's more for for Peter quill to lose

  if he decides at that point to you know

  go

  to his dad um I mean that would have

  been what 10 15 minutes that would have

  been so much more for him to then have

  to say goodbye to and have a decision to

  make instead of the automatic well I've

  known you for 30 minutes when you're

  biologically my dad and you tossed a

  ball around with me but now I have to

  kill you because you killed my mom I

  almost wanted another step in the

  relationship like like like that they

  don't meet and go straight back to his

  planet but like they meet and at

  somewhere in space and have a

  conversation and maybe he unlocks some

  of this power and then Peter like uses

  the power and discovers that this is the

  awesome thing about about having this

  power and he can protect his friends and

  all of that and then he goes to his

  dad's planet realizes there's a horrible

  price something like that where there

  was sort of like a midpoint in the

  relationship and then he could maybe

  Peter becomes kind of more convinced and

  and so that that moment cuz the moment

  where he says that I felt really bad

  when I gave your mom the the brain tumor

  is like I don't feel it's earned I feel

  like it comes out of nowhere because at

  the end in the movie where he has it has

  to happen there has to be a turn you

  know I don't I I disagree I I liked the

  sudden turn there I did see where you're

  coming from about it not being earned

  but the you know he's he's he's tempted

  he's exploring all this other stuff and

  then the one line and that's it right I

  just like I just wanted them to mosey up

  to that line and I thought I felt like

  he just drops it like boom now I'm going

  to drop this and then the response is is

  great right like Chris Pratt's like whoa

  like it was fun that we played catch but

  you know that's I'm going to kill you

  it's over now right I just I just

  figured that there maybe there could be

  more there and it comes back to that

  same thing which is my feeling like

  something's missing like they go

  straight to the planet and then they're

  just on the planet and I kind of just

  wanted some other phase in that

  relationship other than to see his you

  know his murals to himself that one I

  kind of I'm right there with you I think

  that it's it's all very much like oh

  we've crashed on this thing and here's

  Kurt Russell and he's going to take us

  to his planet and that's great right and

  there's no there's no seduction I'm

  seduction isn't quite the right word but

  I guess in terms of like a con game it

  is there it's just like oh well of

  course you're you're his dad cool let's

  go

  whereas if if there had been a little

  more and maybe it would have made it a

  little more episodic but have sort of a

  couple of quick mini adventures where

  you get to see he's pursuing he's he's

  figured out that this kid who's running

  the guardians of the galaxy that's his

  kid and he's following him around he's

  trying to get to know him it's like come

  back with me there's more to you right

  he's like no I don't think so and then

  finally after two or three times the

  third time that's the charm that's

  alright alright fine let's go see what

  this is about

  even just flashbacks to show that would

  show him catching up like the bonus of

  it would be like here's some guardians

  the galaxy aftermath you know he shows

  up at the prison after they've

  demolished it he shows up at nowhere and

  sees you know we get a glimpse into what

  the guardians have been up to and then

  we get a glimpse of this guy who we

  don't know who he is we don't know what

  his deal is we just know he's chasing

  them and then like immediately the movie

  is set up with tension like who is this

  guy what's his deal what does he want

  with the guardians the galaxy why is he

  chasing them and then he finally gets to

  a point where their paths intersect and

  I feel like that sort of setup would

  have been better because then we would

  have gotten a better reveal of Kurt

  Russell than the one-inch man maybe we

  really do just want the the guardians of

  the galaxy TV series because we're all

  talking about these things than we want

  it like that's like an episode and a

  half right there we just we just want

  like the one episode in the middle that

  just focuses on the two of them and goes

  deeper into their relationship so that

  then there's more to lose toward the end

  of it and it's it's funny it's like

  we're stuck somewhere in the middle

  between TV and film at this point well

  that's always been the biggest issue

  that I have with the enjoy I love the

  Marvel Cinematic Universe

  I love these movies I there's only one

  of them that I haven't ever finished and

  that's the Incredible Hulk

  big surprise but at the

  and count but it's not only why not not

  that one the other one uh but neither

  that one either but I superhero comics

  an issue a month twenty two pages a

  month for years and years so much story

  so much story superhero movies two hours

  two or three years apart there's so much

  that you could do with these characters

  that you can't because yeah

  it's a movie yeah it's like it's like

  either either time Batman has faced the

  Joker in a movie it's one story and the

  Joker dies at the end and me there's

  there's no life long nemesis thing going

  on what fun is that it doesn't work yeah

  it's only interesting because you've

  brought the baggage of having read all

  those comics for all those years and now

  here they are in person in front of you

  facing off that's what makes the Joker

  awesome in both those movies is that you

  have spent your entire life watching

  them you know watching them I don't each

  other is that's what they calls it on

  your brothers right there like arching

  and arching and arching and so and then

  so when you finally get to see them in

  person it's it's not the payoff of the

  movie it's the payoff of a lifetime of

  having DC Comics in your box right this

  conversation makes me curious about you

  know maybe I should check out the

  guardians of the galaxy animated series

  because of story story story story story

  story story right but then I would watch

  it and I would not be here in Chris

  Pratt etc and I probably would not be as

  satisfied this is my first inkling that

  there is such a thing as the guardians

  of the galaxy animated series

  merchandise and Disney XD I think

  merchandising Disney XD very important

  to always be merchandise merchandise so

  moisturizing I tell you the you know I'm

  starting to think that maybe the problem

  with this with with this movie and again

  I did enjoy it but is that is the James

  Gunn got he latched on to ego the Living

  Planet which is a character from Marvel

  Comics and maybe the right decision was

  to have Kurt Russell be someone else

  maybe JSON of spartax which is the Peter

  Quill's dad in the comics maybe it's

  some other Marvel character he takes off

  a shell

  something where he could have he could

  get to know his son and his son could

  get to know him during an adventure

  somewhere and that they could tell this

  same story the problem with it being ego

  living planet is they have to go to him

  right they have to go to him because he

  is a planet and they have to live on his

  little planet for a while and that just

  that I think maybe in the end that's my

  complaint about this movie is that it

  feels static because they have to go to

  this deserted planet and one of the

  interesting things about these movies is

  the teeming weird space stations and

  planets and stuff they go to and would

  it have been better if this whole plot

  had taken place amid some adventure

  somewhere else in the galaxy and not on

  the really boring paradise planet I

  don't know I mean you have you have the

  Ravager ship you have the space brothel

  they're both filled with craziness and

  then you have this very peaceful empty

  place Hawaii you know it's fine and you

  also have to spend 15 minutes explaining

  how he is like a consciousness who's

  also a brain who's also a planner who's

  also a person who also went everywhere

  and made all these kids and it looks

  like hurt Russell we had what looks are

  Kurt Russell and has all the big plastic

  dioramas and it's so much narrative and

  an exposition just just to explain who

  this person is that it becomes it was

  just such a cumbersome decision might

  have been too far yeah so I want to ask

  you guys to fill in for me because I

  only have the vaguest recollection since

  we're talking about the comic book

  version of things um who Stanley was

  talking to oh it's the watchers what two

  watches the Watchers more than just a

  watcher right there like three of them

  but that's a a care well known character

  from Marvel Comics who is the he

  watching lives on the moon and he

  watches our planet and also all the like

  alternate realities he's the narrator of

  what if the classic Marvel comic where

  it's like well I loved what if I loved

  it so he is and I think that there are

  people who made who for whom that cameo

  was lost because well I have no idea

  what I except it doesn't matter right if

  if you want it's just the Stanley Kim

  no he's talking to a bunch of aliens

  right he's telling stories to a bunch of

  bald aliens and it doesn't matter and if

  you know the watchers it's extra funny

  and it was extra funny because I was

  like oh look the snares we got the

  watches how are the duck reappears

  briefly - so we get a little uh okay

  Electric Tower and I love that it's it's

  not just Stan Lee talking to them but

  Stan Lee saying well in in this

  adventure I was this guy and in this and

  and sort of making fun of the fact that

  he's in all the Marvel movies I was

  actually kind of surprised to see them

  there because I thought they'd be tied

  up with Fox and Fantastic Four and stuff

  but that's why they didn't name them Oh

  interesting uh anything before we go

  anything else that we didn't cover that

  you think we should we should mention

  david hasselhoff cameo check I should

  throw that in there and that was exactly

  the right amount of David Hasselhoff for

  any project I was a puncher he was a

  punch line it was perfect and then that

  was it because he is mm-hmm if you are

  agnostic too favorable towards 3d uh see

  this in 3d

  um if they do they use it well okay good

  to know since I am NOT agnostic or

  favorable toward 3d but it's good to

  know I want those people who have who

  bought the 2d glasses so if I have to go

  to a 3d showing I can just not see the

  3d that's yeah they make those I have

  them that's the thing yeah that's the

  thing you can buy 2d glasses they're

  pulled they're both polarized the same

  way so you put them on a 3d movie and

  then you only see one of the one of

  those sides yeah but it isn't blurry

  yeah that's amazing yeah

  2d glass pretty cool actually check them

  out they're available on Amazon into

  that you know I bought some y-your rebel

  all right well you know it's a fun movie

  and I think um one of the things I like

  about these movies is that Marvel you

  know Marvel movies are of a kind a lot

  of the time and superhero movies in

  general are of a kind there are the

  beats that they need to hit and

  guardians of the galaxy is different and

  and and the stories are shaped kind of

  differently and the tone is a little

  different and the space stuff is part of

  it you know is this really a superhero

  story at all or just a science fiction

  story I think that's part of it too but

  I enjoy that this is as we said at the

  very beginning right it's fun one of the

  things that I felt going out of the

  first movie was I hadn't had so much fun

  in a big blockbuster movie in a long

  time some there's something to be said

  for a fun space adventure like that was

  the feeling when I saw the Firefly movie

  serenity in the theater I was like this

  is was just fun it was like a fun

  adventure and guardians of galaxy was

  like that and so full credit to James

  Gunn for putting this movie together it

  is it is still fun and not like other

  Marvel or movies or other superhero

  movies and I really appreciate that

  about it so you know it that's that's

  even we can quibble about some of the

  stuff in it but I'm glad that a movie

  like this is allowed to exist inside the

  billion dollar billions of dollars

  machine that is Marvel's Cinematic

  franchise right yeah yeah yeah I have

  we're fortunate we're we're fortunate to

  have movies like this that do not end

  with the I guess the destruction of the

  universe is threatened at the end of the

  movie but it's really a right in the end

  love conquers all that's right they

  literally save the galaxy again to time

  savers at the galaxy yeah they get to

  raise their rates now they do yeah

  just thanks one of the things that I

  think um and I am going somewhere with

  this

  alright I feel like there wouldn't be a

  Deadpool without guardians of the galaxy

  because I feel like they did kind of the

  they stepped a little bit out of the

  standard-issue comic movie comic movie

  totally and so I think that was what

  allowed them to go yeah maybe we should

  take this Deadpool thing seriously yeah

  having a movie that takes these chances

  and makes a lot of money makes everybody

  who is worried about the future movies a

  little more courageous right just a

  little more courageous and a Deadpool

  does well and then everybody's looking

  through the intellectual property

  binders for things that they can do is

  r-rated superhero movies and and then

  you know that'll probably have terrible

  places but I agree that this is the this

  the first movie really opened up the

  playbook because it did so well and full

  credit to the people who I think that

  was literally just a tossed-off movie

  it's their second movie of the summer if

  it doesn't do well that's fine they

  could afford to take a gamble which is

  the same with ant-man which I liked a

  lot and and is a different feeling kind

  of Marvel movie it was the same deal it

  was like the pressure was off the second

  movie of the summer and the result was

  something really good that opened the

  door for other stuff but this gets back

  to what helene led with when we started

  talking about that you know guardians of

  the galaxy one opened the door for a lot

  of innovative stuff in other movies

  guardians of the galaxy 2 is not that

  innovative it is more calculated it is a

  it is designed to continue what you got

  out of the first movie and I'm down with

  that and I loved this but was I

  surprised by it or was it as was it as

  groundbreaking compared to the first one

  no it wasn't but but 'no here's my

  question having having said that you

  were surprised by guardians the galaxy

  one that's great i loved it i was

  surprised by it too but what surprise do

  we need from it now we kind of want more

  guardians right what what is it going to

  do to suddenly be you know this was a

  totally surprising movie you know gets

  more like you know if we if we get into

  season seven of Star Trek The Next

  Generation syndrome then I think your

  answer is that yeah they I think there's

  only they they moved it forward by

  focusing on the family and the

  relationships of the characters and

  stuff like that but then there's going

  to be a Guardians three and then there's

  going to be a Guardians four and then

  there's going to be fast and furious 8

  and then you know if it goes but there

  is a point of - Ingrid I guess I'll

  absolute I guess I would say that that

  that the second one is probably not it's

  probably fine that it is what is and I

  actually I would argue that that the big

  thing that it does is not amp up the

  even though there is a lot of explosion

  universe saving at the end of the movie

  I'd say it actually amps up that that

  love conquers all feeling

  that instead of having a wacky dance-off

  at the end of the movie they have this

  emotional decision that is what resolves

  the movie and I think that was kind of a

  bold choice

  so it was it and it was different in its

  own way that's I mean that's part of why

  I really liked it yeah I mean we we did

  with all thought about the you know they

  spent a lot of time eulogizing yondu at

  the end of the movie I mean yeah and and

  I yeah I'm a sentimental guy I actually

  did have tears streaming down I also

  know of people who were not moved by it

  because you know he's a secondary

  character he's not that important and

  story and because they're dead inside

  you should stop hanging parently I'm

  dead inside I I didn't I I know I know

  I I just know the I mean it wasn't Spock

  don't get me wrong

  yeah the thing that now we're getting

  back into specifics but they they

  broadcast what he was going to do so

  much earlier than he actually did it

  with with with rocket giving him like

  the the the the arrow and the end of the

  suit you know and saying okay now the

  lone monologue once you see it's coming

  yeah and it was like okay and that I

  think just goes sort of back to the

  sentimentality stuff which is which is

  very much about you know telling and not

  showing and I just sort of sat there

  like feeling like it wasn't earned and I

  wanted it to be earned I wanted to feel

  more for yondu in his death than that I

  was feeling I mean the line the one and

  what I did feel really did like we're

  saying before come back down to

  advocating the actor's name coop was it

  Cooper but what's his his name who plays

  yondu it comes Realty my Gregor Gege

  Rooker Michael Rooker I knew was Michael

  something his performance the way he

  says that you know ego may band your

  father but he wasn't your daddy which is

  a great line but also the delivery was

  just um

  like as he's about to die and it's just

  like that's that's the one thing that's

  all he has to say and that's what and

  that in itself is is sort of the

  distillation of the relationship between

  them and as like if we could have just

  had that and not like the big send-off

  and the the Sylvester Stallone and like

  we're going Everly watch his body turn

  into flakes and go out into space it's

  that level of detail probably

  unnecessary yeah yeah yeah no it was it

  was that moment where he says that you

  know he wasn't your daddy that's what

  got me crying not the rest of it yeah

  the rest of that was pretty good man

  but yeah yes so it's the bestest alone

  having a renewed respect for him at the

  end didn't ya never knew I think there's

  little that's belong Stallone don't make

  me cry

  I think the sadness for me though was

  for Peter in that moment because when

  you think cuz at the end of the day he

  lost his dad and he wants his dad I'd

  yeah and like again you know like hey I

  finally made it out and at least I can

  go back to the way things were ya know

  and I think that for me was the thing

  that made me so sad about about yondu

  laying down his life that way and but

  also I think a little bit of it was I'm

  really sad that we probably won't have

  any rocker in the next one but for the

  most part it was just that I was I was

  really sad for like the fallout of what

  that what that was going to do to Peter

  on a on a fundamental level yeah you

  know making that you know how that was

  going to warp him and and you know what

  that's going to do to him later so yeah

  to take it back to the stuff I like you

  know like West um West world this is one

  of his cornerstone memories you know and

  and in Doctor Who

  like the doctor has to travel for a

  while by himself because he can't be

  around anybody else and like is that

  what's going to happen to Peter now is

  he gonna feel like he needs to be alone

  and you know like make things worse

  between him and Gomorrah and him and

  rocket and and him and Drax like the

  rest of you know his family is he going

  to wall himself off from that

  he never has to feel like this again

  what's gonna happen like yeah I think

  about this stuff a lot stay tuned for

  season two end up in the mental

  institution in Legion mmm that's it Oh

  crossover fossa again that'll pick that

  all work leader all right with that we

  will leave it here I hope everybody out

  there has enjoyed our quick it's weird

  to talk about a movie I've only seen the

  one time but we did it we except for

  chip who's seen it two and a half times

  now thank you to all of my panelists

  Helene wicker it was a pleasure as

  always it was fantastic to be here thank

  you Kelly come on thank you thank you so

  much for having me it was a blast

  David jail or thank you thank you of

  course the these are all going to be

  like sprinkled through the end credits

  right that's right this is and now

  before I say goodbye to chip amid credit

  sequencing which scan lead thanks you

  for listening to it no chip thank you

  for going above and beyond to watch this

  movie second and a half time Jason

  you're beautiful right that's that's I

  appreciate

  I'll take it and crank up the week with

  Mack I guess thanks for listening to

  being comfortable we will see unit

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