It's Above Average
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the Intolerable number 157 June 2017
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welcome back everybody to the
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incomparable I am NOT your host Jason
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Snell no I am Erika ensign and I'm
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usually a panelist here on the
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incomparable but alas our fearless
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leader is not able to be with us today
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if you are a regular listener to the
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podcast you'll know that one thing we do
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very rarely is talk about current movies
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films that are in the theater now and
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that is because it is so hard to find
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time for enough of us to get to the
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theater and watch them in time to record
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a sort of timely podcast about a new
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movie but this is one of those rare
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occasions when we are going to do just
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that we are here to talk about Wonder
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Woman starring gal gadot and directed by
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patty Jenkins I think Jason would
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probably have liked to have been here
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but there's this little thing this week
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called WWDC and apparently that doesn't
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stand for Wonder Woman from Detective
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Comics who knew so yeah what's that
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about yeah so while the host is a way
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the panelists will play and I have a
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fine assortment of panelists joining me
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today to talk about this blockbuster
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film first of all we have a Shannon
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ceteris welcome back to the podcast
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Shannon or lafa tikis and you heard his
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voice a moment ago and David J Laura's
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here what would that oh oh that's a
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watch Alyssa Frankie welcome welcome to
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be incomparable hello and a Kelly
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camonte how do you do buckaroos and last
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but not least I drag my spouse along
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Stephen Chbosky hello nanu-nanu huh yeah
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off the rails already and with with
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introductions but hey that means I'm
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pretty much on pace for many a typical
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Jason introduction so I don't feel so
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terrible about it but no no no as I said
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yes we are here to talk about Wonder
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Woman and there are a lot of us who not
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only were excited to see the film but
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actually got to see it on opening
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weekend at least once I think maybe some
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of us have seen it more than that so I
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think we're going to go around and and
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do some some maybe John Syracuse's style
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opening statements or just some rough
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overall stuff Before we jump into
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spoiler territory so so don't don't jump
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in with the spoilers right away
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but I would like to to kind of hear what
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your your opinions are in a general
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sense and how many times you've seen
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this what it was sort of the experience
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was like in the theatre anyone want to
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jump in basically I have been dying for
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this movie ever since it got greenlit I
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am a Wonder Woman fan going all the way
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Super Friends the Lynda Carter TV show
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subscribe to the comics for a while
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followed the DC Animated universe just
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because I loved the character so much
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and the movie lived up to my
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beautifully I've left the theater I've
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only seen it once so far but I'm going
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back and it totally totally satisfied me
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awesome Kelly did you see this more than
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once I did I saw it three times holy cow
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your hero indeed that's about seven
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hours yeah so the first time was I have
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a regular movie going buddy
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so we will go in the afternoon when it's
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cheaper because what our schedules will
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flex that way and he was complaining
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about having nobody to go to movies with
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so we've gone and seen stuff and he shot
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me a note and said hey I'm going
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Thursday night we've got a bunch of
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people getting together do you want to
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go and I'm like sure so he showed up and
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so I actually got to see it with Greg
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Rucka whoa dude please tell those in the
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audience tonight who don't know who that
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is um he's a big deal hmm let's go with
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that um he he writes Wonder Woman
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currently and actually got to see the
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film earlier this year and said that
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they hadn't really made any sub citizen
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changes so he was looking forward to it
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with the score and some some finished CG
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and stuff because it didn't have music
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when he saw it and and was talking about
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how when he went in they really kind of
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had to he felt like they were going to
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really have to work to impress him and
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then they did and so he's been excited
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about it for ages and of course couldn't
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really say much about it to anybody so
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that was really great
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um and he's so nice and super friendly
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and like it was really great never met
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before and I got a chance to actually
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sit with him and we chatted a little
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before and after the movie and he's so
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nice so like on top of everything else
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like that was really great and then I
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saw it on Friday with some friends of
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mine and then again on Saturday with
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some friends of mine and one thing that
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I noticed is I saw it the first time in
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a local theater like an independent
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theater that's not a searchlight or
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Cinemark or any of those and then I saw
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the other the other two times I saw it
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in Cinemark theatres and Wow I just sort
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of forgot how many commercials um for
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those movies when you go to big places
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um I really enjoyed getting to see a
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movie where a woman was front and center
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and the whole thing wasn't about how is
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the woman gonna respond to this and I
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really felt like the performance of our
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two main characters was balanced I feel
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like Steve Trevor Chris Pine did a
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really good job of I don't know how to
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describe it but like he knew it wasn't
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his movie when right like I feel like
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that was kind of an important thing
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because it's not often that the guy that
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particularly for you Chris Pine who
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spent three movies as the center of the
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film is Captain Kirk you know um feeling
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like it was sort of interesting to watch
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him play second fiddle and so that was
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also a really interesting part of it I
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want to get into specific stuff later so
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I'm just going to leave it at I really
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enjoyed it and I would not be sad at all
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if I had accidentally ended up with
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plans to see it a fourth time today mhm
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yeah I I saw it Friday night and I loved
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it and I one of the things I was I was
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really impressed by was the chemistry
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between the two of them I thought that
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was delightful they were there were
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there were moments straight out of a 30s
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or 40s mid film and sometimes a
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screwball comedy and sometimes a drama
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and they they carried them beautifully
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and and you're exactly right about him
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knowing that it's not his film and
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playing that brilliantly I kind of wish
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his Jim Kirk were a little bit more like
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Steve Trevor at least in the first two
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movies there's a little better in Star
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JJ Abrams movies he's a little too bro
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and this was much more this this is a
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hero this is a good character yeah yeah
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I had a little eye rolling when I heard
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that he'd been cast because at that
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point all we had was two Star Trek
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movies and a Jack Ryan movie right you
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know to sort of look at and it was and
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I'm like oh that hurts a little you know
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I wasn't sure how they were gonna do
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that but I was I was really impressed
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with him and I actually came out of that
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with a much higher estimation of Chris
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Pine than I did going in nine so Alyssa
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what was your experience like so I saw
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it on Friday it was a birthday party
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actually for one of my gal friends and
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walking into the theater it was an
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amazing experience in and of itself
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there was these two little girls that
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were running up the street alongside me
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and they ran up and they ran to the
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movie poster they started shrieking and
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they ran up to the ticket box and they
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started shrieking and they were jumping
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up and down like absolutely gleeful just
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to be able to go and see this the movie
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theater was not all women unfortunately
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we did not get one of those showings
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where I am but the women kind of took it
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over it was a very vocal audience but
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sort of in the best way possible there
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was a lot of cheering for the fanservice
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we had with a lovely scene with Chris
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Pine and we'll talk later
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we talked more about it later but it was
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very vocally appreciated by the women in
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my audience fans and watches so many
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fans of watches in that theater and
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everyone was just powered up like every
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single fight scene every single amazing
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moment from Wonder Woman you could just
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hear the appreciation in the audience
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just everyone absolutely losing it so I
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was really excited you know I think
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we've had a lot of women in superhero
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movies this is the first time I felt
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that this was a very focused female
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superhero movie that was really designed
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and make them feel really like the stars
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of this you know we've talked a little
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bit but like he always feels like the
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second fiddle guy sort of comes in and
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takes a lot of the space in these movies
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but the journey was entirely about
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Wonder Woman and I just came out of
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there feeling absolutely fired up and
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amazing it was so exciting and I loved
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I was kind of amazed actually that our
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guy I went to an independent theater -
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not crowded it was kind of a weird time
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from time of day but it was it was a
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fairly gender balanced group but there
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were a lot of little girls and as the
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movie went on they got louder and louder
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and louder and just a happier and
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cheering and clapping and everybody
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clapped at the end of the movie it's not
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often I've been in a theater here in
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Indiana where that happens so well
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Steven I know you saw this once with me
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and I don't think either one of us
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really knew anything about it going in
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did you I the only thing I knew about
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Wonder Woman is Lynda Carter because
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used to watch Wonder Woman when I was
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five or six and I had such a crush on
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her years before I knew why I should
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have a crush on her you're Canadian me
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and then the then I've played Lego
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dimensions where the Wonder Woman is a
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character this is so I and then there
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was this movie Andy and you told me
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Erica that we're going to this movie
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because you know it's important that we
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support this with the dolls I said sir
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absolutely let's watch it I had never
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seen a DC movie before of the current DC
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EU so already it's the best DC movie
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that I've seen uh technically it's also
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the worst though I suppose it is but if
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it was on the Marvel Universe B of which
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I've seen every single one this would be
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the best Marvel movie I think I just
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need to um it was really really good I
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think by about twenty or twenty five
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minutes and I was hooked
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um and and I I just adored that film
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tube it's possibly the most out of the
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three of us you me and our friend
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Annette which kind of surprised me I
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thought you were both really full-on on
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board with this as much as I was but I
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think um my level of enthusiasm talked
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we walked out of the theater and Annette
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and I were kind of nodding like yeah I
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was those all right and Steven was like
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he had stars in his eyes and he was
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floating through the party so well Chris
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Pine is a handsome man it'd be a fair
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yeah yeah this is this is the first
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female superhero starring film since
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well I mean I guess technically we had
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but I was going to say Supergirl 1984 um
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so this is this is this was a big deal
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from even before like the moment that it
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got greenlit and not only is it
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starring gal gadot a whose name I have
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been pronouncing wrong a lot so I
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apologize and I didn't run that on
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purpose but it's also directed by a
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woman which i think is kind of an
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interesting thing so we've got some
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double standards that have been that
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it's been sort of subjected to even
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before it hit the theaters and even
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before anybody anybody saw it
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I mean you you'd be surprised by some of
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the reviews you know there's a lot of
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positive reviews and certainly the movie
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has made enough money that I don't think
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anybody is seriously going to say that
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this wasn't successful but there's
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already people attributing the success
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of the movie to Zack Snyder there are
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people saying that Jenkins is being
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hired as a sort of political correctness
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nod and that they can't attribute the
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success of the movie to her so I'm sorry
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no no no the feel of the movie is
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obviously obviously a woman's viewpoint
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year was not a single shot in those
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fight scenes of deliberate let's get a
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close-up of her boobs let's get a
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close-up you know of this part of her
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body the warriors the Amazons fought
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like warriors fought just you know there
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was no titillation there was nothing
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about those fight scenes designed to say
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lookie here look at the girls yeah and
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you know it it takes so long for that to
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sink in because we are so used to how
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you know it goes back to comics how a
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lot of male artists draw women in comics
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that's been transferred a good deal too
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the movie universe to the Marvel movies
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of you know showing off the pretty
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woman's figure instead of showing off
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that she can kick ass it's going to be
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the the top grossing movie this weekend
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I'm really excited about that because
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that is math that's that's an objective
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thing that's not something like oh
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you're just saying you like it because
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because you're a girl or it gives you
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like her because this or because that
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like you can't dismiss math math is not
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math was not subject to I don't know in
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this society we can try want to but this
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is one of the few things where like you
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can't just chalk this up to me myself
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going well I really liked it well yeah
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but there's no but I'm not alone here
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right this is not a cult movie this is
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not a movie that lives underground and
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gets rediscovered 20 years later this is
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a hit out of the box yeah and it's all
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the one cautionary the one cautionary
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thing I'll say is that not to bring
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anybody down but just to fire you up for
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the next battles that need to be fought
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if that Hollywood sort of has a history
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of taking movies that were successfully
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directed by women on their first go and
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giving subsequent movies to male
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directors this happened with Twilight
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even though you know shattered records
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for the time raised a ton of money and
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was seen you know generally as the
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success subsequent movies getting passed
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on to male directors and the female
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director getting quite a bit of negative
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press related to that of saying that you
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know just couldn't work with them moving
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forward so keep fighting so that patty
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Jenkins can direct everything yeah
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whatever comes next after Justice League
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like you know we get the November
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Justice League and then she directs the
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next one yeah that's like I will will
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get to my Zack Snyder issue later I have
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a Syracuse's statement on Zack Snyder
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but but the things that I loved in this
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movie were clearly all patty Jenkins and
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all filtered to that sensibility and I
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have a friend who she doesn't she's not
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a big movie person she's really not a
◼
►
big superhero movie person and I said
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you know you might enjoy this partly
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because I mean the superior stuff is
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fine it's the human stuff and it's there
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is a believability and plausibility in
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everything about the human characters
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and then in Diana's discovering the
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human world that you don't get in a lot
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►
of superhero movies and I mean just the
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range of types of characters that
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surround her in this movie when have we
◼
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seen that in a superhero movie it's it's
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really lovely and then there's then
◼
►
there's a little bit that's Zack Snyder
◼
►
II so what she does a great job at the
◼
►
the action sequence it's usually a
◼
►
sequences in comic book movies bore me
◼
►
to tears because they usually have an
◼
►
inevitable outcome which is usually
◼
►
nobody wins or nobody loses and they're
◼
►
just you know smashing parked cars for a
◼
►
few minutes before before it ends here
◼
►
there's almost like a billeted style to
◼
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it where they just sort of slows down
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sort of hover in midair we focus on a
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move a little bit and then BOOM returns
◼
►
to like normal speed again like it never
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►
felt dizzying or disorientating or
◼
►
boring in any way there was always just
◼
►
enough of those little moves put into
◼
►
fight scene so that always just was
◼
►
super interesting and fun to watch with
◼
►
there are moments in there that almost
◼
►
look like Alex Ross paintings come to
◼
►
life which comparison if you don't know
◼
►
Alex Ross go look him up you know you've
◼
►
seen his stuff he does all the covers
◼
►
for aster city he did Kingdom Come and
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and it's amazing to me that they managed
◼
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to get that look in that style in a lot
◼
►
of the fight sequences of this and a lot
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of the sort of slowed down almost glory
◼
►
shots right yeah sure I gorgeous I think
◼
►
another important thing is your rights
◼
►
even they had consequences it's not just
◼
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bashing up cars for five minutes and
◼
►
then we move on every fight scene had
◼
►
consequences and they showed the true
◼
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sort of human horror of all the
◼
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destruction that they're going through I
◼
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think my big problem with Marvel movies
◼
►
lately has it's been you know one big
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city destruction after another and you
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just sort of move on and there hasn't
◼
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been a lot of focus on the horror that
◼
►
they must be witnessing there
◼
►
and Wonder Woman wasn't afraid of that
◼
►
it didn't shy away from that it really
◼
►
focused in on that horrific element to
◼
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every single fight scene which is in
◼
►
keeping with the tone of the movie you
◼
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know setting it during World War one and
◼
►
having the whole reason for Diana to
◼
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emerge from Fennessy era to try and stop
◼
►
this huge horrific war that they didn't
◼
►
they didn't sugarcoat it that was the
◼
►
thing that I really noticed in this was
◼
►
aftermath there's there's a fair amount
◼
►
of like aftermath and consequence that's
◼
►
very visible and very upfront which I
◼
►
thought was impressive but the thing I
◼
►
liked about the fight scenes was they
◼
►
were longer shots yes yes usually I end
◼
►
up checking out of fight scenes because
◼
►
you're showing me a fraction of a second
◼
►
and then a new angle or a new place
◼
►
where fighting is happening and then you
◼
►
come back and Herc and jerk and like I
◼
►
have a TD and I can't keep up and so I
◼
►
end up just sort of letting it go by and
◼
►
not really paying attention until the
◼
►
fighting stops and there's no
◼
►
consequences so we just go back to
◼
►
whatever story is happening so I really
◼
►
liked the the speed manipulation and I
◼
►
also liked getting to actually see what
◼
►
was going on and understand what was
◼
►
going on and then see and understand
◼
►
those consequences afterwards like
◼
►
altogether it was much more impactful to
◼
►
watch the fighting in this film than in
◼
►
a lot of others it's it's the same
◼
►
reason Fred Astaire insisted on
◼
►
full-frame long shot take camera takes
◼
►
for all the dance sequences in his films
◼
►
because you need to see the whole thing
◼
►
it's not elements right you don't get
◼
►
anything from that you don't get
◼
►
anything from quick cuts you need to see
◼
►
the whole performance and and in your
◼
►
brain realize what went into making that
◼
►
right yeah and it's a problem with a lot
◼
►
of superhero movies these days and just
◼
►
a lot of action movies these days is
◼
►
that it's so much quick cutting and
◼
►
there's no you you you don't have to be
◼
►
decent at this to be able to pull that
◼
►
off right yeah you can mask a lot with
◼
►
with a lot of quick cutting and I tend
◼
►
to be the first person to say that
◼
►
action sequences are boring of any kind
◼
►
yes and yet honestly I think they were
◼
►
my favorite parts of the film and I mean
◼
►
I kind of walked out going you know I
◼
►
wonder if all of the other superhero
◼
►
films like had all of the dude heroes
◼
►
with long flowing hair and
◼
►
skirts and super kicky boots if I would
◼
►
appreciate them a little more and that
◼
►
might help but I do think that it was
◼
►
the the framing and the the sense of
◼
►
place that you have in in each one of
◼
►
the action sequences that made me more
◼
►
rooted in it so before we before we talk
◼
►
more about the consequences of the
◼
►
action sequences we should probably blow
◼
►
the spoiler horn but before that is
◼
►
there anything else that anybody wants
◼
►
to say is sort of an opening statement
◼
►
type of a thing quick shout out you know
◼
►
we've mentioned here and there the
◼
►
acting but I think gal gadot and Chris
◼
►
Pine Kelly earlier mentioned balance and
◼
►
I think that's just such a key element
◼
►
in the writing and the performances that
◼
►
the actors brought to the roles because
◼
►
you have this amazing balance of things
◼
►
that make up Wonder Woman you've got all
◼
►
of this education and wisdom from
◼
►
centuries of growing up with the Amazons
◼
►
and you smash that against her total
◼
►
ignorance of the rest of the outside
◼
►
world and just the her innocence and the
◼
►
delight she takes in so many things that
◼
►
she sees compared to you know the things
◼
►
that bother her or you know are horrify
◼
►
her and meet Chris Pine that this Steve
◼
►
Trevor I love this Steve Trevor
◼
►
um again not taking over the movie he is
◼
►
just enough of a flirt um he is smart
◼
►
he is capable he's not played to be some
◼
►
doofy sidekick that it drags her down
◼
►
they wind up making a really good team
◼
►
together and it all just balances so
◼
►
very well hey everybody it's Jason I'm
◼
►
here remotely it's going well so far
◼
►
don't you think but I need to tell you
◼
►
about our sponsor yes I've been pulled
◼
►
back to tell you about our sponsor our
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well I think that's a very good note too
◼
►
to bring us to the other part of the
◼
►
podcast which will balance out this
◼
►
first pot part and that it after the
◼
►
spoiler horn so if you don't be spoiled
◼
►
go see the movie really just go go see
◼
►
okay so I know that quite often when we
◼
►
talk about movies on this podcast Jason
◼
►
sort of takes us through them
◼
►
sequentially after only one viewing for
◼
►
some of us that's going to be a tough
◼
►
thing to do but I do think that we've we
◼
►
should start with with kind of the
◼
►
framing element we have the the very
◼
►
beginning the very end of the movie
◼
►
which I assume is sort of set and around
◼
►
the same time as the Man of Steel and um
◼
►
Batman versus other film doesn't exist
◼
►
those those I thought it was slightly
◼
►
after the film we dare not speak its
◼
►
mm-hmm yeah that one and we do have that
◼
►
which I didn't understand what it was
◼
►
and I didn't know that if it was if it
◼
►
was following on to a conversation since
◼
►
I didn't see that movie that we don't
◼
►
want a name but she gets this really
◼
►
cool picture which later on at the end
◼
►
of the movie we find out that it's her
◼
►
and and all of her buddies from World
◼
►
War one which was kind of a I thought
◼
►
that was a nice frame II touch to sort
◼
►
of ground it in the world of the DC
◼
►
movies that exist now in a way that
◼
►
absolutely makes no difference to the
◼
►
story that's being told in this film
◼
►
right right yeah basically I went
◼
►
looking YouTube very handily has a few
◼
►
compilations of just the Wonder Woman
◼
►
minutes from that movie so you know
◼
►
that's all I needed but yes apparently
◼
►
Lex Luthor had found this photo and
◼
►
Bruce Wayne managed to get a copy of it
◼
►
and then you know sends it sends it to
◼
►
her to say you know found this why here
◼
►
the story sometime and as you said it's
◼
►
a really neat little framing device for
◼
►
the people who are in into comics and
◼
►
into the DC world and it does not
◼
►
distract the people who aren't sure
◼
►
what's going on I I was ok with the
◼
►
photograph and everything else about the
◼
►
sequence was like shut up and start my
◼
►
movie I don't I don't give it I don't
◼
►
give a flying something about any of
◼
►
this cake uh because yeah and flying
◼
►
dropkick yeah it was short enough for me
◼
►
it was short enough not said it was
◼
►
short it got it got out of the way I
◼
►
didn't I didn't need any of the
◼
►
narration you know that was extraneous I
◼
►
was okay with it I knew nothing
◼
►
you know of this universe going and so
◼
►
someone going into this this movie on
◼
►
this universe I was perfectly okay with
◼
►
the amount spent on the sort of the
◼
►
prologue and then the the origin story
◼
►
aspect of it I thought that was right
◼
►
nicely patient you know they they kind
◼
►
of had to do it because they've already
◼
►
set her in our present day so there had
◼
►
to be some kind of explanation and some
◼
►
kind of setup in there yeah I get it I
◼
►
get it I just don't think any of the
◼
►
other movies exist so one of the things
◼
►
I liked about how they did that with the
◼
►
with the case was a Wayne industries
◼
►
travel that's all yeah yeah great even
◼
►
if you don't know about that film um you
◼
►
still know like we've seen this other
◼
►
ones that Batman and then like you can
◼
►
kind of like you can kind of put
◼
►
together like oh that's right like she's
◼
►
not she doesn't run with the avengers
◼
►
she runs with like Batman in them so
◼
►
like I felt like it was a nice way to
◼
►
set it up because even people who don't
◼
►
necessarily know about the other movies
◼
►
would still be able to be like oh that's
◼
►
Batman and like know that I thought that
◼
►
that was really nice and I don't know
◼
►
about the rest of you the last trailer
◼
►
before our showing was Justice League so
◼
►
it so it was sort of a little bit of Yap
◼
►
teaser to that it was kind of funny
◼
►
because I felt like I was watching the
◼
►
trailer for the sequel before I've
◼
►
watched the movie that I'm there to see
◼
►
right and I and I again I much rather
◼
►
wanted to see the movie I was there to
◼
►
see but I was very curious you know what
◼
►
was in the case like what could Batman
◼
►
be sending her like I don't know to me
◼
►
it was it was sort of interesting to
◼
►
figure out like what that was going to
◼
►
be so I was I was interested in that
◼
►
first bit but when I first started
◼
►
hearing the narration I sort of thought
◼
►
like is this going to start like Lord of
◼
►
the Rings where we have to spend five
◼
►
minutes listening to a disembodied voice
◼
►
tell me what's what before we get in
◼
►
because like I don't know how much of
◼
►
this I need to know and then the armored
◼
►
truck rolled up and then I was sort of
◼
►
interested like what is Wayne industries
◼
►
doing you know and so for me it was a
◼
►
little bit different so I was at like my
◼
►
moment of dread was probably much
◼
►
shorter than shorter than your statement
◼
►
and I have the the thing with the
◼
►
narration was it's like okay well who
◼
►
this is one of the things I learned when
◼
►
I started writing one-person shows who
◼
►
is the person talking to and at the end
◼
►
we find out that none of that narration
◼
►
is in the email to Bruce so who is she
◼
►
talking to we don't that was just hurt I
◼
►
thought that was just sort of her inner
◼
►
monologue her her sort of I mean it
◼
►
could be it just didn't connect to
◼
►
anything I think you could do that
◼
►
without any narration whatsoever it
◼
►
would still work it would actually work
◼
►
better I think hmm maybe well let's
◼
►
let's jump into the to the mascara and
◼
►
her her life with the Amazons it starts
◼
►
off with an adorable adorable child oh
◼
►
yes my god is very low sotius little
◼
►
diana who really really wants to fight
◼
►
and as soon as she starts peeking over
◼
►
the wall and and sees her her aunt
◼
►
played by robin wright as a entire I did
◼
►
not recognize I'm still talking myself
◼
►
that I did not right and I recognized
◼
►
her right away and was just like I'm
◼
►
right cuz I didn't know she was going to
◼
►
be in this I was like she's in this and
◼
►
then not only was she in it but she was
◼
►
playing an older woman with you know by
◼
►
scars and wrinkles and you know like
◼
►
somewhat you know flabby arms a little
◼
►
bit edge not very not very but she
◼
►
looked like an older woman who was
◼
►
absolutely kicking asked just and no
◼
►
question all of it mmm-hmm all of it
◼
►
yeah yeah the casting of the Amazons in
◼
►
general there were star athletes hidden
◼
►
among the like there's a prize-winning
◼
►
boxer in there all of these women again
◼
►
female director directing women warriors
◼
►
not women just dressed up in cute
◼
►
leather armor and standing around
◼
►
imposing right and when I think of like
◼
►
all of the fighting that happens like
◼
►
one of the moments I think of as Robin
◼
►
Wright when she flips through the air
◼
►
and shoots the three arrows at once oh
◼
►
like that is so ha every time remember
◼
►
I've seen it three times and every time
◼
►
like Brett like it was breathtaking
◼
►
every time and that's why that's one of
◼
►
those super standout moments is cuz like
◼
►
even when like I know I I know
◼
►
what's coming and I know what's coming
◼
►
because now seeing it twice before still
◼
►
like huh every time when like launched
◼
►
up into the air and it's just amazing
◼
►
and watching that was I know it was a
◼
►
little bit 3d service but at the same
◼
►
time holy Wow it's just one of the like
◼
►
iconic when I think of like the the
◼
►
still frames from this movie that's one
◼
►
of the first ones that comes to mind I
◼
►
think one of the things that really
◼
►
struck me about this was sort of the
◼
►
diversity in the background right you
◼
►
know they really work should bring in
◼
►
various different types of women from
◼
►
all races and ethnicities and while I'll
◼
►
be the first to say I loved the Warriors
◼
►
to pieces they also show they also
◼
►
showed a fuller richer the mascara you
◼
►
know you had senators you had teachers
◼
►
you had academics you had this whole
◼
►
society that was there that women were
◼
►
active in all parts of it of course
◼
►
because there's only women but how often
◼
►
do you get to see that sort of ancient
◼
►
Greek style society where women are in
◼
►
all of those roles and you're not seeing
◼
►
you know old white men with big long
◼
►
beards taking on all of those positions
◼
►
so that to me was just amazing that they
◼
►
made it so rich and we took the time to
◼
►
fully develop this world that they were
◼
►
living in I was actually surprised at
◼
►
how much of the movie took place there I
◼
►
yes yeah I mean because they think it's
◼
►
not like I showed her entire youth and
◼
►
on all of her growing up but they gave
◼
►
you quite a grounding and who this
◼
►
person was from from a child who is you
◼
►
know really interested in fighting to a
◼
►
teenager to the woman that we eventually
◼
►
see absolutely kicking butt you know
◼
►
better than anybody else and you know I
◼
►
liked that they just sort of dribbled
◼
►
out hints about what her actual history
◼
►
was and we sort of you know for those of
◼
►
us who didn't already know discovered it
◼
►
along with her and I recognized that the
◼
►
comic books have had multiple different
◼
►
versions of her origin story depending
◼
►
on where you are in the comic book canon
◼
►
but I liked that the way that that it
◼
►
was sort of dribbled out before we even
◼
►
and and before things start start
◼
►
happening on the island it was it was a
◼
►
very smart way of starting a very
◼
►
meditative contemplative you kind of got
◼
►
into the life of the island which was a
◼
►
lovely way to establish everything and
◼
►
and I think this was a very good is this
◼
►
might be my favorite version of the
◼
►
origin it just kind of makes sense to me
◼
►
the way some of them did not yeah that's
◼
►
I'm very very relieved that they did not
◼
►
go the route of Diana entering this
◼
►
competition to see who would win the
◼
►
right to take Steve back and masking
◼
►
and because her mother forbade her to
◼
►
you know they went to it more directly
◼
►
you know her mother saying look you
◼
►
and Diana basically turning around and
◼
►
saying well yes I'm going to try so yeah
◼
►
I love how they handled the decision for
◼
►
her to go out and take take Steve Trevor
◼
►
back to the real world yeah she had to
◼
►
Shannon she had agency throughout the
◼
►
whole first part you know she was doing
◼
►
what she wanted to do which was nice
◼
►
she wasn't sort of pushed into it or
◼
►
like forced into it that was her choice
◼
►
and I loved how her mother and the
◼
►
leader of the of the the colony or
◼
►
whatever attended the was it called the
◼
►
island the the island of the Amazon the
◼
►
island Amazon's was was you know sad and
◼
►
that she was going but knew that she
◼
►
couldn't stop her I really like that
◼
►
mm-hmm yeah and I think that it was
◼
►
important to establish the place that
◼
►
she came from and the person that she
◼
►
was before leaving because so much of
◼
►
the rest of the movie is about how she
◼
►
deals with the world outside of her
◼
►
Island and if you didn't have a good
◼
►
grounding in that it wouldn't it
◼
►
wouldn't play out quite as well so the
◼
►
moment that you see this airplane fly
◼
►
through and crash I mean that's kind of
◼
►
a an almost jarring moment because I had
◼
►
sort of been lulled into a sense of this
◼
►
place so well that I was like huh
◼
►
yeah this is this is nice I I like the
◼
►
blue skies and the and then the first
◼
►
time they cut to the outside and you see
◼
►
like with the boats out there and I was
◼
►
just it was incredibly jarring
◼
►
we charring which I guess it was for her
◼
►
to because she never she never seen a
◼
►
man before yeah one thing I did like
◼
►
about how they established the mascara
◼
►
was that they leaned very very subtly
◼
►
into sort of the queer themes of this
◼
►
whole island ruck has been explicit in
◼
►
his run that the mascara was going to be
◼
►
a place without heteronormativity so
◼
►
marriage wouldn't be called gay marriage
◼
►
on an island full of women it's just
◼
►
going to be marriage there was there was
◼
►
one moment when Robin Wright is killed
◼
►
where you have her mother and Diana
◼
►
coming but there's also another random
◼
►
unnamed woman who comes up and my first
◼
►
thought when I saw that was wife that's
◼
►
definitely got to be her wife mm-hmm and
◼
►
uh there was also that really just
◼
►
everything about the boat scene when
◼
►
Diana and Steve was yeah excellent the
◼
►
the whole line of men are necessary for
◼
►
procreation but unnecessary for pleasure
◼
►
that was the line where my audience
◼
►
completely lost their like all the girls
◼
►
were yelling one girl was like yeah girl
◼
►
our theatre did the same thing I've got
◼
►
a grin as about to split my face and
◼
►
chips just sort of looking down I just
◼
►
laughed yeah that's about right
◼
►
I think I'm funny but still I love the
◼
►
one review that was like confusingly she
◼
►
says this it's like without even looking
◼
►
I'm like oh that review was written by a
◼
►
man yeah you like by the Hat I do ever
◼
►
reviewed it for the Guardian jeepers
◼
►
oh yeah saw that go by and it was really
◼
►
awful one of the thing that might be my
◼
►
favorite images cuz it made me laugh the
◼
►
most this isn't true but it was one of
◼
►
the ones that mention something that we
◼
►
mentioned earlier is a good thing which
◼
►
was they didn't shoot her all sexy like
◼
►
at any point and not one of the like
◼
►
things against it in this review which
◼
►
should tell all you need to know about
◼
►
her for drools or something I don't
◼
►
remember exactly what the phrase was but
◼
►
hey it was grammatically awful B it was
◼
►
an awful image to try to put in
◼
►
someone's head and see this movie didn't
◼
►
need that unless you're going to start
◼
►
doing that to Thor so yeah yeah I think
◼
►
I think that review like referred to
◼
►
like it ignored the SNM origins of the
◼
►
comic or something bla bla bla like so
◼
►
have most following versions of the
◼
►
comment exactly and I gotta say there is
◼
►
no way to shoot gal gadot poorly so I
◼
►
mean what is his problem and do you want
◼
►
proof of that she was five months
◼
►
pregnant when they did some of the
◼
►
reshoots and they green-screen to her
◼
►
Tommy so that they could get the the
◼
►
shots in so yeah think about that for a
◼
►
minute some of what she was doing there
◼
►
was more than halfway through a
◼
►
pregnancy and she still yeah Wow Wow
◼
►
well and and some of it was her fight
◼
►
and double she's not actually the
◼
►
greatest stage combat person but they
◼
►
did a very good job of masking that I
◼
►
believed it yeah yeah yeah it was
◼
►
totally believable yeah I liked Alec
◼
►
Guinness as obi-wan to and he wasn't the
◼
►
best sword fighter he was great in this
◼
►
before we leave the mascara which we
◼
►
probably should before too long or this
◼
►
podcast is going to be as long as the
◼
►
movie and we don't want that we can't go
◼
►
back yeah we we have to talk about the
◼
►
the purple hot tub scene we've mentioned
◼
►
to watch but I please let's talk about
◼
►
that scene I think I think it is
◼
►
important that you know we we mentioned
◼
►
that we we haven't we didn't have shots
◼
►
of gal gadot that were all like you know
◼
►
cheesecake II and and we didn't we
◼
►
really didn't have terribly cheese or
◼
►
beef cakey I guess shots of Chris Pine
◼
►
either but he was the one that was sort
◼
►
of the most objectified spell oh yeah
◼
►
it's certainly the most exposed how did
◼
►
you how did your theaters react to that
◼
►
I'm curious Oh ours how old are you
◼
►
Larry Asst yes and lots of giggles um
◼
►
and especially when because because it's
◼
►
very carefully in the beginning and then
◼
►
when it goes to the full shot and you
◼
►
could hear kind of gasps in the back of
◼
►
the room going oh my god they did the
◼
►
full shot yeah and and but you know and
◼
►
again played it beautifully under played
◼
►
you know it was just it was exactly the
◼
►
right tone for it it was there were very
◼
►
appreciative women and if you should
◼
►
have met in my audience had the sale
◼
►
yeah yep and even the you know that the
◼
►
careful framing of her looking down and
◼
►
you can't see what she's looking at and
◼
►
saying what's that and of course we you
◼
►
know mentioned the watch and and it's oh
◼
►
whoa it's a it's a watch and and that's
◼
►
that is sort of the first moment that
◼
►
you get a little bit of of the adorable
◼
►
sort of naivete I guess that's not
◼
►
really the word that I want innocent yes
◼
►
search for innocence about some of the
◼
►
things that happen off of off of her
◼
►
Island and you know you let this little
◼
►
little thing tell you what to do and
◼
►
when to do it and that was it was which
◼
►
has another double meaning to you let
◼
►
that little thing tell you what to do
◼
►
yeah and I gotta say I am not at all
◼
►
inclined to that way and even I kind of
◼
►
went wow he's pretty he is in fact above
◼
►
average what's the great me share that
◼
►
that got a great got a great laugh in
◼
►
our in our theater as well that day yep
◼
►
so of course she decides for herself
◼
►
that the you know mom you can't tell me
◼
►
what I do I do what I want I'm gonna go
◼
►
and and decides to leave which and I I I
◼
►
didn't know if she was just going to
◼
►
sneak off and I was really glad that she
◼
►
didn't because she got the goodbye scene
◼
►
with you know all these people that she
◼
►
is leaving behind forever and ever
◼
►
yeah I actually have a question for you
◼
►
guys about that because this is the
◼
►
thing that I've wondered about and I'm
◼
►
sort of taking this informal poll so mom
◼
►
says uh you know that if you leave you
◼
►
may never return now does she mean you
◼
►
can't or does she mean it's possible you
◼
►
won't because I couldn't really tell if
◼
►
what she meant was your
◼
►
check it out is one way or if she meant
◼
►
it's possible that once you leave you
◼
►
know you you may never be able to find
◼
►
your way back here and I couldn't really
◼
►
tell what she meant I took it as
◼
►
possible yes I took it as possible yeah
◼
►
that you might not come back
◼
►
yeah and I thought so too because I
◼
►
thought the I thought it was carefully
◼
►
written to sort of leave that door open
◼
►
and certainly the way the line was
◼
►
delivered I thought I thought that there
◼
►
was a bit of an emphasis on May so I
◼
►
didn't think that meant that the door
◼
►
was closed which makes me happy because
◼
►
I would I mean honestly I would be happy
◼
►
I'm Thomas Kira I would have a I would
◼
►
totally have a rogue one or yeah road
◼
►
one style movie of of just stuff that
◼
►
happens on the mascara like the the war
◼
►
we heard about with the book mm-hmm yeah
◼
►
you know like the book was a really nice
◼
►
sequence which i think is probably not
◼
►
going to get the attention it deserves
◼
►
instantly yeah I think she probably
◼
►
realized it at some point while Diana
◼
►
was out in the real world so to speak
◼
►
she would discover her true identity and
◼
►
her true destiny and you know as a god
◼
►
who would want to come back to you know
◼
►
the cocoon again so to speak I think
◼
►
there'd be a much greater world for her
◼
►
out there and I loved her question who
◼
►
would I be if I stayed right yes and it
◼
►
might be metaphorical too you know right
◼
►
the fact that she is a God you you may
◼
►
never come back as and you may never
◼
►
come back to this philosophy this world
◼
►
as a metaphysical space its existence
◼
►
exactly we can't go home again and and I
◼
►
can't I can't imagine that they would
◼
►
totally close the door or never
◼
►
returning there as a plot device but it
◼
►
it works either way it works if they
◼
►
want to go back it works if they never
◼
►
go back I mean it did seem kind of I was
◼
►
interested that it that everybody from
◼
►
the Army was just or the Navy I guess
◼
►
was was able to just plow right in there
◼
►
I assume that they were protected by
◼
►
something but I guess they're just
◼
►
disguised is that the case because who
◼
►
else it's that that sort of a cloaking
◼
►
device or you know the fog right yeah so
◼
►
it seems like if she could find her way
◼
►
back to that same location she might be
◼
►
able to just warn her back in but but as
◼
►
you said Steven you know she probably
◼
►
won't won't be the same person
◼
►
regardless you know it's like when you
◼
►
go home from college for the first time
◼
►
not the same person anymore right
◼
►
mm-hmm-hmm so yes then we get the lovely
◼
►
lovely boat scene with the two of them
◼
►
and yes the whole and that was beautiful
◼
►
I mean that was he sleep next to me that
◼
►
was that was like straight out of a
◼
►
preston sturges film right just this
◼
►
very just crackling comic dialogue but
◼
►
also human and and just filled with
◼
►
character and and I mean even his sort
◼
►
of fumbling and going well well well I'm
◼
►
above average right you know just sort
◼
►
of like trying trying not to be the
◼
►
matinee idol right nice yep and I knew I
◼
►
knew that Chris Pine could do comedy
◼
►
because he he is funny in in a lot of
◼
►
places in the Star Trek films but this
◼
►
was a different kind of comedy which I
◼
►
I will admit that I I had trouble
◼
►
differentiating Steve here from from
◼
►
Kirk because that's the only thing I'd
◼
►
ever seen him as so I really did keep
◼
►
seeing him as Kirk most of the way
◼
►
through the movie but that doesn't mean
◼
►
I enjoyed his performance any less he
◼
►
was still he was really good and no he
◼
►
wasn't playing exactly the same
◼
►
character it was just in my mind but it
◼
►
was moments like yeah that helped yeah
◼
►
and I had the opposite effect I kept
◼
►
marveling about you know that you know
◼
►
this is not Kirk like this is heat Steve
◼
►
Trevor he's got this totally new
◼
►
character going and I love it this this
◼
►
is I always think of this when I see
◼
►
things like this my mother used to say
◼
►
this about some actors she and she
◼
►
thought that about George Clooney she
◼
►
would totally have thought this about
◼
►
Chris Pine that they are just there's a
◼
►
performance that where they become a a
◼
►
movie star and this might be it it's
◼
►
it's that same kind of you know it's a
◼
►
very casual very you know totally at
◼
►
ease Clooney has the same kind of
◼
►
comfort in these kind of roles yeah it's
◼
►
it's it's it shows that you know if
◼
►
they're any guys watching this movie
◼
►
that you don't need to do what many
◼
►
generations of men have done well
◼
►
actually do you do need to do what many
◼
►
told women over the decades and
◼
►
millennia is to know your place I there
◼
►
is a place for men and you know he's not
◼
►
subservient he's not as you said earlier
◼
►
ELISA he's not weak he is strong at his
◼
►
role but he knows where he isn't and
◼
►
that's where Diana comes in um for me I
◼
►
think I mean I I love I love the movie
◼
►
and everything else but I think honestly
◼
►
the the role of Steve Trevor and
◼
►
especially the way that Chris Pine plays
◼
►
it kind of reminds me of Han Solo in the
◼
►
first Star Wars film and that there's a
◼
►
lot of mystic mystic mumbo jumbo going
◼
►
on and like you know Amazon I mean Korea
◼
►
is a super serious place where not the
◼
►
humor goes down there's a lot of I must
◼
►
find Ares in that sort of thing and he
◼
►
sort of levels it he sort of brings it
◼
►
down to sort of like just a just a wry
◼
►
amount of cynicism just to keep everyone
◼
►
just sort of grounded a little bit and
◼
►
keep it real a little bit and that's
◼
►
that was successful to the movie if they
◼
►
you know it prevented it from becoming
◼
►
too much of a DC Philip let's put it
◼
►
that way yeah I think when I'm cleaning
◼
►
it I think one of the things I really
◼
►
loved about that scene is that Diana is
◼
►
uh earnest and not hung up on social
◼
►
convention the way Steve Trevor is but
◼
►
she's not innocent either you know
◼
►
they're having all these conversations
◼
►
and she you know never seen a man before
◼
►
but she has read plenty she understands
◼
►
what goes on sometimes between men and
◼
►
women she just doesn't have the hang-up
◼
►
about sleeping alongside men right she
◼
►
knows what she does and does not want to
◼
►
do she's perfectly happy either way but
◼
►
practically speaking it's better for
◼
►
both of them to sleep up on the front of
◼
►
the boat where they can stretch out and
◼
►
I thought she played that whole
◼
►
fish-out-of-water thing with so much
◼
►
earnestness that it never felt like we
◼
►
were taking Diana down a peg by putting
◼
►
her in a new environment she was ready
◼
►
to learn she was ready to be out there
◼
►
but some things about what women are
◼
►
expected to do in the early 20th century
◼
►
are just incredibly silly
◼
►
and I like that they move the movie try
◼
►
cuz apparently that the comics starting
◼
►
World War two I like it yes World War
◼
►
one because there's yes you know what we
◼
►
don't even have the vote but by World
◼
►
War one and so there's on there's even
◼
►
more restrictions on women in that time
◼
►
period to post them out of their dress
◼
►
their duty in society that sort of thing
◼
►
so there's even more barriers to sort of
◼
►
smash down I think if if you know that's
◼
►
the the you know always trying to sort
◼
►
of like stifle the reveal of her costume
◼
►
until until the grand moment in no-man's
◼
►
land it feels more natural here because
◼
►
all your barely dress - you know
◼
►
nineteen seventeen or eighteen of not
◼
►
dress yeah yeah yeah what's gonna be
◼
►
like a USO two or something if she was
◼
►
wearing that outfit in World War two so
◼
►
there would be as as out of place if you
◼
►
know what I mean right yes right yeah
◼
►
that was a good move I think the World
◼
►
War one move was brilliant it would it's
◼
►
kind of funny because the very first
◼
►
trailer I saw I was like wait a minute
◼
►
that's World War one isn't it and then I
◼
►
second-guess myself going like no no she
◼
►
started in World War two and then yes
◼
►
they did choose World War one number one
◼
►
distances itself from Captain America a
◼
►
bit which I think was a good idea and
◼
►
number two as you all said you know the
◼
►
the division between gender roles much
◼
►
stronger and also the fact that World
◼
►
War one was the first global modern
◼
►
conflict killing people by the millions
◼
►
that ties in with uh with the mythos
◼
►
that they used of Ares causing all of
◼
►
these problems and Wonder Woman having
◼
►
to go try to kill Ares I think you know
◼
►
World War two yes horrible and massive
◼
►
in its own way but that was the second
◼
►
time around and people had at least a
◼
►
grasp of of death on this scale by then
◼
►
what I think World War one fit in with
◼
►
the themes better that they created with
◼
►
the Wonder Woman origin story with her
◼
►
conflict with Ares but also with with
◼
►
the whole thing of you know Ares idea
◼
►
that I don't actually do this it's them
◼
►
they do this and so it doesn't matter if
◼
►
you kill me because they'll keep doing
◼
►
works to go all right you know not to
◼
►
get ahead of ourselves plot wise here
◼
►
but at the end when yes we've stopped it
◼
►
in World War one is over and we don't
◼
►
even call it World War one it's the
◼
►
great war to end all wars and of course
◼
►
it doesn't and we know that and the
◼
►
other the other thing I think which was
◼
►
a very smart decision on their part was
◼
►
at the end when Ares well see again I'm
◼
►
getting hit myself Franco but at the
◼
►
very end when Ares has been dispatched
◼
►
and everyone is sort of released from
◼
►
that spell for a little bit and you see
◼
►
the the Americans and the German
◼
►
soldiers kind of relieved and everything
◼
►
it's a little easier to watch German
◼
►
soldiers like that when they're not
◼
►
wearing swastikas that's what I was
◼
►
thinking was moving to World War one
◼
►
meant no swastika oh yeah yeah yeah and
◼
►
teenagers boys yeah and young teenage
◼
►
boys because that World War one was that
◼
►
the first one to take an entire
◼
►
generation of men and throw them into
◼
►
this conflict and one thing that I liked
◼
►
as as as a Canadian is that oftentimes
◼
►
Hollywood will turn World War 2 into an
◼
►
American war true whereas water 1
◼
►
America ride very late
◼
►
this is unapologetically set in Belgium
◼
►
you know it's a Belgian village it gets
◼
►
destroyed there are Germans uh all about
◼
►
Europe exactly it's all about Europe and
◼
►
I thought it was a from an American
◼
►
movie that was that was somewhat bold to
◼
►
sort of like take that decision to move
◼
►
it away from the origins of the comic
◼
►
and place it in a tear in an era that
◼
►
most Americans are a lot less familiar
◼
►
with Kelly what were you going to say
◼
►
yeah the thing I liked about also doing
◼
►
that was I feel like if they had tried
◼
►
to do this with World War two Steve
◼
►
comes out of World War two and tries to
◼
►
sort of sell them on helping him stop
◼
►
the war that it's going to be a harder
◼
►
sell because like you guys have done
◼
►
this once already and I felt like that
◼
►
moment when he said you know millions of
◼
►
people women and children slaughtered
◼
►
weapons like nothing you have ever seen
◼
►
it's the end of the world
◼
►
that only could have been effective in
◼
►
World War one because you know by the
◼
►
time you get to World War two everything
◼
►
has to have an asterisk
◼
►
I know we said this once before but now
◼
►
we mean it you know I know we tried to
◼
►
tell you it was the war to end all wars
◼
►
but here we are again and so I really
◼
►
felt like that was one of the smart
◼
►
things to do with it and then also I
◼
►
felt like the current political climate
◼
►
and I don't know how much this entered
◼
►
into it but you know now with less
◼
►
swastikas was a super smart move on
◼
►
their part because it doesn't derail the
◼
►
discussion of the film right into
◼
►
something political whether you're
◼
►
talking about politics that are politics
◼
►
now and I thought that that was also a
◼
►
really smart way to just sidestep all of
◼
►
that entirely and I really liked how
◼
►
they did that and I liked that it wasn't
◼
►
here and I liked that it wasn't an
◼
►
American war and Americans charging in
◼
►
to save the day and like when you look
◼
►
at who charges in you know the little
◼
►
fellowship that gets together to go off
◼
►
and stop the war is a woman who is
◼
►
basically not from Earth you know I mean
◼
►
only technically in that she's made of
◼
►
clay um you know so we've got her we
◼
►
have an American we have a Scotsman and
◼
►
we have a Native American who has I
◼
►
think one of the a very nice moment with
◼
►
Diana in his own right when they have
◼
►
the discussion at the campfire that we
◼
►
could talk about right and I and Sammy
◼
►
who was from I don't know where but I
◼
►
think his Egyptian Turkey I was from
◼
►
Turkey yeah okay oh well thanks oh and
◼
►
it was kind of neat that that little
◼
►
band because you know first I'm
◼
►
wondering what I could do do we need
◼
►
this we had you know Captain America had
◼
►
his ragtag group of folks do we need
◼
►
this and then I went looking online
◼
►
that's actually a callback to a DC comic
◼
►
property the Black Hawk squadron and
◼
►
world war two so it's like it's an
◼
►
easter egg I'll allow it and it's a
◼
►
really good Easter Egg yeah and I really
◼
►
enjoyed watching the chemistry between
◼
►
all of them like again Jay casting like
◼
►
this was a really fun group of people I
◼
►
could totally imagine them after
◼
►
spending all day shooting the scene
◼
►
where they celebrate with beers that
◼
►
they all go out and celebrate with beers
◼
►
like I could envision
◼
►
that one of my favorite moments is when
◼
►
when they're talking they're sort of
◼
►
getting to know one another in samia's
◼
►
you know I always wanted to be an actor
◼
►
but I am the wrong the wrong race I'm
◼
►
the wrong person color yeah we're on
◼
►
color and I immediately I wanted to see
◼
►
a movie with the rest of them again I
◼
►
just want to see them doing stuff
◼
►
because they all of them were great
◼
►
characters and he was delightful and
◼
►
that is such a heartbreaking line and it
◼
►
is a very meta line yes in its I think I
◼
►
think that that that group and Diana's
◼
►
place in it is really important to to
◼
►
show us how she is discovering the world
◼
►
outside and and you know later on when
◼
►
she gets to the point where she's having
◼
►
her conversation slash showdown with
◼
►
Ares the the feelings that she's
◼
►
developed for these people in the way
◼
►
that she has come to know them it's a
◼
►
big part of how and why she's able to
◼
►
make the decision she does toward the
◼
►
end so yeah the the travel along with
◼
►
with these folks is is important in that
◼
►
those relationships deepen as she goes
◼
►
but I think it's I think the film does a
◼
►
nice job of showing the relationships
◼
►
they're sort of blooming I mean they
◼
►
already have their little their little
◼
►
team and she's getting us there for the
◼
►
fresh part but when you see them
◼
►
reacting to her jumping up and you know
◼
►
running across no-man's land which was
◼
►
an amazing amazing yes it's it was that
◼
►
was just such a cool thing because you
◼
►
get to see them sort of discovering what
◼
►
she really is and each person's reaction
◼
►
to that and then the fact that you know
◼
►
it's a it's a war movie trope that
◼
►
battle brings people together so yes
◼
►
though when they're having the beers
◼
►
afterwards and they're celebrating it it
◼
►
feels earned and it feels like they have
◼
►
taken a step on there in their
◼
►
relationship it's great and one of the
◼
►
things I loved about them was they
◼
►
didn't care like that that she was a
◼
►
girl they didn't like and well I won't
◼
►
say they didn't care but it didn't seem
◼
►
to matter to them that she was that they
◼
►
were gonna drop her off at the war that
◼
►
she was going to go off and do some sort
◼
►
of fighting or something like they just
◼
►
sort of took her at face value and then
◼
►
when that value changed like
◼
►
they didn't and I thought that that was
◼
►
really great and wasn't like they sort
◼
►
of treated her with kid gloves or
◼
►
anything yeah you know like before they
◼
►
they internalized she can do that Wow
◼
►
okay let's use this one she made small
◼
►
crab for that guy in the bar yeah they
◼
►
realized she can handle it but then even
◼
►
after that one of the small things I
◼
►
noticed in the movie is when they're
◼
►
headed to the boat to go meet chief as
◼
►
they're walking and they're having the
◼
►
conversation about a liar a murderer a
◼
►
smuggler Charlie keeps sticking his arm
◼
►
out to her side to keep people from
◼
►
bumping into her mm-hmm yeah and I
◼
►
thought that was just a really kind
◼
►
thing and that seemed like like they
◼
►
were very friendly even then you know
◼
►
that he was like you you know that he
◼
►
had a certain amount of respect for her
◼
►
you know like as a woman like he would
◼
►
have opened the door for her you know or
◼
►
whatever I felt like they they sort of
◼
►
were we're still kind of formal and he
◼
►
was kind of you know trying to make sure
◼
►
that she wasn't getting bumped into by
◼
►
all these people and I thought that was
◼
►
a really a very small moment that was
◼
►
very nice that I really enjoyed and one
◼
►
I loved when they're in the town once
◼
►
they've saved the town and they're
◼
►
celebrating and we mean it's not like we
◼
►
take time to get to know anybody there
◼
►
but we get to know the town we get to
◼
►
know the the atmosphere of it and the
◼
►
feeling of it and that comes back in
◼
►
devastating manner later in the movie
◼
►
oh that comes again to the feeling of
◼
►
there are consequences to things yes
◼
►
they really didn't shy away from making
◼
►
us fall in love with this little town
◼
►
where they found a moment of peace in
◼
►
this war and this was Diana's big first
◼
►
triumph against this war of saving these
◼
►
people saving this town and that all got
◼
►
taken away so it's a very good moment of
◼
►
a human tragedy in the loss of the
◼
►
village and the personal tragedy for
◼
►
Diana to lose all of these people that
◼
►
she had just saved you know I thought
◼
►
that was so well done I can't believe
◼
►
they went there I can't believe they
◼
►
they really committed to that and didn't
◼
►
back off from it and I think it was also
◼
►
a kind of twofold important scene for
◼
►
relationship between Diana and Steve
◼
►
because during the battle you actually
◼
►
have him running out with his with his
◼
►
buddies and you know getting that big
◼
►
piece of metal and doing the shield
◼
►
thing so it showed us he seen them do it
◼
►
before I love that bit too he was that
◼
►
he attention to to the battle enough and
◼
►
recognized that this is this is a thing
◼
►
that she is capable of this is the thing
◼
►
that I am not capable of I am literally
◼
►
going to bend down and and kneel so that
◼
►
she can do this thing that that is
◼
►
amazing and then I catch you steps on my
◼
►
back yep yes girls continue kicking ass
◼
►
right there and the beauty of it is it's
◼
►
both you know saying here I can be
◼
►
subservient and you know you can take
◼
►
the primary role and it's also saying
◼
►
I'm a really smart tactical yeppers
◼
►
right to do this as a team player and
◼
►
that's the thing you know yes she's
◼
►
taking the brunt of it but they are
◼
►
functioning as a team one of the things
◼
►
I also liked about that was the way they
◼
►
portrayed the Scottish sharpshooters
◼
►
PTSD riot in that everyone was super
◼
►
understanding and respectful of what it
◼
►
was that he was going through because
◼
►
that was also a major theme to come out
◼
►
of world war one is that you have all of
◼
►
these young men coming back with this
◼
►
incredible trauma and they don't really
◼
►
know how to cope with that how to deal
◼
►
with that how to diagnose or treat it
◼
►
and a lot of survivors with PTSD and
◼
►
other forms of trauma were not treated
◼
►
all right as a result of it so it was
◼
►
kind of nice to see this movie address
◼
►
it in a way that this group of people is
◼
►
going to understand the trauma that he
◼
►
is going through and be respectful of
◼
►
him and find other ways to work around
◼
►
it I felt like that was another thing
◼
►
that um sort of gave Diana evidence that
◼
►
that man is more than what Ares is is
◼
►
chalking up to them and I read that was
◼
►
one of the things I really enjoyed was
◼
►
that moment where she looked over and
◼
►
all three of them are like I'm out and
◼
►
they just held hands and put their heads
◼
►
together and waited for the end and I
◼
►
was heartbroken for them and yes I felt
◼
►
like them taking care of Charlie like he
◼
►
just that he is who he is and and you
◼
►
know he doesn't mean anything by it and
◼
►
they were very understanding of him and
◼
►
like chief still has a good relationship
◼
►
with Steve you who took this from you
◼
►
his people and you know and Sammy's
◼
►
declaration of I'm just the wrong color
◼
►
like all of them it was exactly what
◼
►
Sammy said everyone's fighting their own
◼
►
battles just as you're fighting yours
◼
►
and I really liked that they all had
◼
►
this this love and affection for each
◼
►
other genuinely that Diana was getting
◼
►
and so the demonstration you know the
◼
►
love that she believes in is not just
◼
►
I'm in love with Steve it was they love
◼
►
each other and they care about each
◼
►
other because they'd had this moment in
◼
►
the village with all these other people
◼
►
you know in that moment when like chief
◼
►
is refusing payment and you know Sammy's
◼
►
bringing beers around to everybody and
◼
►
like all of those little things that
◼
►
happened in the village where we really
◼
►
get those moments that was really
◼
►
fundamentally kind and it was one of the
◼
►
parts of people that I like to think
◼
►
about and Charlie was singing he hasn't
◼
►
sung in years yeah it was it was it was
◼
►
kind of a breakthrough for for a lot of
◼
►
them in many ways and I had to say that
◼
►
I found the the sequence with Diana and
◼
►
Steve dancing at the end and then you
◼
►
know going up and getting on it on much
◼
►
more sweetly sincere than a lot of
◼
►
similar romantic scene
◼
►
in other movies whether they be
◼
►
superhero movies or not because yeah
◼
►
this is right this is a film where
◼
►
sincerity and earnestness are not
◼
►
treated as a syrupy they are just right
◼
►
for character and they are a part of my
◼
►
world and and they're surrounded by all
◼
►
of these you know this darkness and
◼
►
these battles that like we keep saying
◼
►
have actual consequences it feels like
◼
►
like amidst all of that it's a much more
◼
►
realistic feeling relationship right
◼
►
it's going under it's under played it's
◼
►
realistic it's human and I loved that
◼
►
it starts off where it's like well
◼
►
you're you're standing awfully close
◼
►
because evil yeah that's going to do
◼
►
this yeah that's wrong and in most
◼
►
movies and TV these days it would
◼
►
continue being witty and snappy and
◼
►
funny and it just gets very quiet as
◼
►
they both realize oh oh you are standing
◼
►
a little close and then we go to another
◼
►
place where they're going to stand a lot
◼
►
closer and there's no there's no
◼
►
smirking about it there's no hey look at
◼
►
me I'm above average right it's just
◼
►
this is the next step that we're taking
◼
►
and that's that right and and then it
◼
►
fades out to the next scene
◼
►
it doesn't dwell on that but what I love
◼
►
is that you know probably a typically a
◼
►
male directed film would probably have
◼
►
Steve Trevor go into that room close the
◼
►
crisp I've ever in this movie hesitates
◼
►
wonders where this is going is this is
◼
►
this what I think it is okay I guess it
◼
►
is now I close the door he you know he
◼
►
didn't assume he didn't assume that he
◼
►
was going to get some there he you know
◼
►
it was what Diana wanted and though
◼
►
that's when he closed the door that's
◼
►
what I really loved about that it was a
◼
►
beautiful moment yeah and it wasn't a
◼
►
prize you know Diana wasn't a prize that
◼
►
Steve had won and she was active had
◼
►
agency in that very much you know a
◼
►
driving participant in all of that
◼
►
happening which is just so so rare to
◼
►
see in any movie not just in the
◼
►
superhero genre that that was that
◼
►
absolutely made that scene for me mm-hmm
◼
►
okay well I want to we need to keep
◼
►
things really here so I want to take a
◼
►
sharp left turn and actually talk about
◼
►
the the the villains in this this and
◼
►
I'm not talking about areas yet who
◼
►
actually did anybody else figure out who
◼
►
Aires was like and his first appearance
◼
►
on screen okay you know he had an
◼
►
inkling and then I forgot that I'd had
◼
►
that inkling until the reveal I see
◼
►
first basically you have David Thewlis
◼
►
in a movie so he's going to be a bad guy
◼
►
and because not always a bad guy well my
◼
►
name is Luton I know it's my problem I'm
◼
►
like reefer yeah whooping can't be the
◼
►
bad guy thing see I've been watching
◼
►
Fargo so I knew he was going to play uh
◼
►
and but but it was literally Chekhov's
◼
►
Aires they kept harping on it and
◼
►
harping on it and harping on it and with
◼
►
all of that you kind of go yes we're
◼
►
gonna find out that it's not really a
◼
►
big deal because we know that the second
◼
►
world war comes along but we're gonna
◼
►
run into him and it's probably gonna be
◼
►
David Thewlis I didn't mean to go Casey
◼
►
Kasem there but that's how I should be
◼
►
by surprise maybe I was clueless as to
◼
►
how superhero movies work like this but
◼
►
I I just thought he was a kindly I
◼
►
thought he was gonna like the Ray fine
◼
►
it's kind of like my work you in the
◼
►
body yeah and then like gives them the
◼
►
money and like yeah she can run it from
◼
►
my office and I've said I've said this
◼
►
it's totally from being a writer I I
◼
►
think about plot things and I think
◼
►
about it's it's when a movie can
◼
►
surprise me and still work in context of
◼
►
the movie that is a fantastic thing and
◼
►
it happens to me very rarely I loved
◼
►
this anyway but yeah I knew instantly as
◼
►
soon as he walks is like up there is
◼
►
well it's because it's got any surprises
◼
►
right for seeing it again is now that
◼
►
you know when you go back and you watch
◼
►
then all of it makes perfect sense when
◼
►
you go in knowing who were after yeah
◼
►
because of course he's gonna send them
◼
►
to mess it up because he thinks they're
◼
►
gonna mess it up in the wars gonna get
◼
►
to continue and then he and he totally
◼
►
is playing them from the moment they
◼
►
show up and when you start there then
◼
►
you know when you know going in that
◼
►
Lupin is the bad guy uh-un
◼
►
up you know when he for 21st walks into
◼
►
that war room where he's trying to talk
◼
►
about the Armistice and and he's so
◼
►
ineffectual at it right yeah it's
◼
►
getting interrupted and talked over and
◼
►
huh you know it's like no he's he's
◼
►
playing something but at first like I
◼
►
didn't at first I didn't see it that way
◼
►
at all and then when I watched it the
◼
►
second time I could see that um it
◼
►
wasn't surprised at the lady in the war
◼
►
room it was surprised that she's off the
◼
►
island now right no it's an interesting
◼
►
I assume she's here for me and I felt
◼
►
like that was a big moment for him which
◼
►
is you know the first time we see him
◼
►
because like that I feel like that's
◼
►
what's driving the rest of his actions
◼
►
through the movie is that he recognizes
◼
►
Diana and when you go in knowing that's
◼
►
who that's what's gonna happen
◼
►
it's a little bit different when you
◼
►
watch him because I was like okay I'm
◼
►
gonna watch him this time now that I
◼
►
know that he's the bad guy because you
◼
►
see the weird stuff happened with
◼
►
Ludendorff and all of the things that
◼
►
that he's up to and then he starts um
◼
►
you know huffing the little perfume
◼
►
samples and like his face starts to
◼
►
light up and you know he turns into like
◼
►
superpowers like I sort of like it was
◼
►
to me the first time through it was very
◼
►
obvious oh well this is just him
◼
►
channeling his inner God you know and so
◼
►
this it's just peaking out you know in
◼
►
the in the light in his face and so you
◼
►
know so then I was sort of confused when
◼
►
she runs the sword through him and the
◼
►
roof and pins in there and like nothing
◼
►
changes I felt like Diana at that point
◼
►
like nothing changed I don't understand
◼
►
what's going on here and so when you go
◼
►
in and you know that he's a bad guy and
◼
►
you watch him you can see him do that
◼
►
whole like wait no stop don't you know
◼
►
like like yeah half-heartedly trying it
◼
►
and then playing everybody to his
◼
►
advantage I thought we were leading up
◼
►
to a bait-and-switch that dr. Maru was
◼
►
going to be Ares like right up until the
◼
►
point yeah that David Thewlis showed up
◼
►
I was thinking see okay here's the bait
◼
►
and switch we're going to get
◼
►
dr. maura now and she's gonna have been
◼
►
Aries all along like nipple aiding him
◼
►
with the perfumed samplers he was
◼
►
huffing then I was like oh my god loop
◼
►
is the bad guy yeah I thought it was
◼
►
like how was it not him well obviously
◼
►
it's doctor poison like that was totally
◼
►
where I was right first him through yeah
◼
►
yes he I was going it's going to be the
◼
►
least likely person and you know and
◼
►
that's the twist it's got to be a
◼
►
surprise it's not a surprise if it's one
◼
►
of the two of them and but also when you
◼
►
go back and watch it now it works
◼
►
beautifully because either they're gonna
◼
►
screw it up or she's going to be seduced
◼
►
to his side cuz that's part of what he's
◼
►
after at the end and either way he comes
◼
►
out ahead exactly yep and it's
◼
►
beautifully constructed that way and
◼
►
it's really beautifully constructed too
◼
►
because his argument Ares argument that
◼
►
I don't make them do this this is just
◼
►
them I've you know I've given them some
◼
►
ideas but they're the ones that choose
◼
►
to carry them out that is absolutely the
◼
►
case with Ludendorff and and dr. poison
◼
►
because you know they they are the ones
◼
►
who did absolutely just completely
◼
►
killed that village that she that she
◼
►
fell in love in and with and it was it
◼
►
was it was he was human beings all along
◼
►
that were doing this yes killed but
◼
►
settled their own um their own
◼
►
commanders that were getting ready to
◼
►
sign the armistice it's like oh we're
◼
►
going to take care of this yeah and like
◼
►
like the first time I think we see
◼
►
Ludendorff he says you know I haven't
◼
►
eaten I haven't slept like what's your
◼
►
deal maybe we need to remind everybody
◼
►
that an attack can come at any moment
◼
►
let's do that bang mm-hmm and and the
◼
►
thing I will say about this is that it
◼
►
was a very emotional final battle for me
◼
►
as we talked about everybody bringing
◼
►
their own stuff in fighting their own
◼
►
battles because I live in Portland so
◼
►
this was just barely a week after the
◼
►
incident on the max so talking about how
◼
►
mankind is terrible and mankind is
◼
►
horrible and mankind does all this stuff
◼
►
to each other like I was totally sitting
◼
►
in my seat going yeah I know like it was
◼
►
very sad like from here because like I
◼
►
see that everywhere like it's happening
◼
►
in downtown Portland right now as we
◼
►
regard this as a matter of fact
◼
►
so it was it was one of those things
◼
►
where it was it resonated with me
◼
►
personally and you know everybody
◼
►
sitting in my room sure like as we were
◼
►
sitting there watching them talk
◼
►
watching Aires talk about how humanity
◼
►
is so terrible and you know yeah it did
◼
►
you know it it he's absolutely right
◼
►
I felt like you know it I was like I
◼
►
gotta see your point dude like there was
◼
►
a moment there where I'm like yeah he's
◼
►
kind of making a convincing argument
◼
►
like we kind of do suck and then when I
◼
►
knew it was him and we went back the
◼
►
next time like there was a lot of stuff
◼
►
going on in town where people have had
◼
►
crazy amounts of money donated to the
◼
►
families and donated to the guy who
◼
►
survived so that he can pay all of his
◼
►
medical bills and there's a company that
◼
►
donated a bunch of t-shirts say piece on
◼
►
them and they like went down to the max
◼
►
stop and started giving them away to
◼
►
people and like there's still a bunch of
◼
►
flowers there and people are talking
◼
►
about a permanent memorial to these
◼
►
people and and that like all of that
◼
►
news started coming out on Friday so
◼
►
when when I when I get went again on
◼
►
Friday I felt like I cited more with
◼
►
Diana at the end you know like they are
◼
►
more than that like yeah actually we are
◼
►
you know we need to be reminded of that
◼
►
so it was a very emotion a motional II
◼
►
between seeing at Thursday and seeing at
◼
►
Friday for that reason you know and it
◼
►
was really nice to sort of have that
◼
►
reminder and like be sort of reassured I
◼
►
guess yeah the one piece of his of areas
◼
►
argument that just didn't sit well for
◼
►
me and I don't think it was supposed to
◼
►
was his idea that okay so you have like
◼
►
you know if anybody in this movie could
◼
►
could be said to have been fringed its
◼
►
Steve because he is the one who
◼
►
sacrifices himself and dies I mean at
◼
►
least he but chooses to sacrifice
◼
►
himself so it's not like really yeah
◼
►
fridging but no but so he dies and she
◼
►
explodes with her anger which I thought
◼
►
that was a great teen she did a really
◼
►
nice job but then Aries is his point is
◼
►
sort of see he went and he left you
◼
►
alone so you should you should believe
◼
►
me and follow me and I was just like how
◼
►
dumb are you - thank you she's upset
◼
►
because she cared about him and you
◼
►
totally misread the situation while you
◼
►
must be a God of War and clearly not a
◼
►
so so so then she goes on to to
◼
►
recognize that no people are better and
◼
►
and and she's she becomes our wonderful
◼
►
Wonder Woman what which I have to also
◼
►
say it's nice that nobody said Wonder
◼
►
Woman at all in the entire movie yeah
◼
►
yeah that's true her reaction to his to
◼
►
his death was was awesome and his
◼
►
reaction to her reaction to Steve's
◼
►
death was baffling to me the only
◼
►
downside for me for a lot of that is I
◼
►
thought David Thewlis was totally
◼
►
totally perfect as Sir Patrick and as he
◼
►
was turning into revealing himself to be
◼
►
Aerys it was still okay once we were in
◼
►
the full-on god I really kind of wish
◼
►
that they'd given him like a full-on
◼
►
helm that covered everything but his uh
◼
►
but his eyes because I'm sorry
◼
►
that is Ares does not wear that would be
◼
►
little mustache to me sitting there you
◼
►
know he was sitting there talking about
◼
►
after I fell to earth and I was too weak
◼
►
and whatever and they show him and he's
◼
►
like sad and uncloudy in that stash oh
◼
►
you've got to put it the 70s and now
◼
►
it's World War one I don't understand
◼
►
what happened here yes that's it's it's
◼
►
kind of it's the why the USS Enterprise
◼
►
makes noise in space it's so we can
◼
►
remember who he is because we can't
◼
►
possibly figure that out but I think
◼
►
that was the sex acts nighter thing I
◼
►
don't think that was the director
◼
►
because that's just dumb yeah and the
◼
►
wrists and the rest of this movie is not
◼
►
dumb that way well there was still a
◼
►
confrontation between the two there
◼
►
still had to be dialogue between the two
◼
►
so that's what you know that's why they
◼
►
couldn't necessarily turn we've got ears
◼
►
we've got ears we can hear him hahaha
◼
►
you just see this you know there there
◼
►
is a thing to be said about about
◼
►
humanity and movies and if it was just
◼
►
sort of a CG monster I think we would
◼
►
sort of lose that connection a little
◼
►
bit but I think we can see the eyes in
◼
►
the mouth moving of of the human that's
◼
►
under perhaps his mustache should have
◼
►
singed off I suppose that maybe we go
◼
►
I will give one very brief defense of
◼
►
his statement about he's gone and left
◼
►
you alone because that to me didn't
◼
►
actually feel odd i from a family where
◼
►
people have served in the US military
◼
►
particularly the US Navy I've got many
◼
►
friends who's had people serve in Iraq
◼
►
and Afghanistan and the thing that
◼
►
strikes me about the grieving process
◼
►
for people who serve in the military and
◼
►
put themselves in risky situations is
◼
►
that usually the anger part of that
◼
►
grief is they've gone and left you that
◼
►
nobody forced them at least for people
◼
►
who served after the draft and even then
◼
►
many people who serve during the draft
◼
►
had options to get out as did many of my
◼
►
family members who could have gone to a
◼
►
higher education rather than serve in
◼
►
the military at that time the anger part
◼
►
of that is you did not have to go and
◼
►
serve in this conflict you did not have
◼
►
to take that action that self-sacrifice
◼
►
to protect other people or in the case
◼
►
of what Steve's doing here you didn't
◼
►
have to go and decide that you and you
◼
►
alone could save everybody and decide to
◼
►
sacrifice yourself that that anger part
◼
►
of grief that that someone has made the
◼
►
decision to leave you is very real and I
◼
►
think the thing with Steve that struck
◼
►
me with Ares is that Steve is another
◼
►
one of in a way areas warriors he's not
◼
►
in love with war the way Ares is but
◼
►
he's participating in the conflict he's
◼
►
doing his best that he can to end the
◼
►
conflict but he is participating in it
◼
►
and Diana even expresses some discomfort
◼
►
at how Steve is valuing lives and how
◼
►
he's choosing to accept certain missions
◼
►
and who he's choosing to go in and save
◼
►
so for me that made perfect sense that
◼
►
this this might be a moment to convince
◼
►
man is weak man will continue to act out
◼
►
and be violent and that could have been
◼
►
seen as another failing of Steve's for
◼
►
Diana I'm glad that Diana reacted the
◼
►
way she did but that moment to me didn't
◼
►
seem at all odd thank you for putting
◼
►
that way because that's that is
◼
►
something I had not considered and now
◼
►
that moments it's much better with me
◼
►
thank you that that moment didn't seem
◼
►
odd to me either also because I mean I
◼
►
and this is part of my thing
◼
►
I didn't entirely by his resolution to
◼
►
this I don't think that was the best way
◼
►
to resolve things but in flying the
◼
►
plane up and getting it out of the way
◼
►
he's showing that he's valuing everyone
◼
►
else who's on the ground he could have
◼
►
blown it up on the ground and that would
◼
►
have you know wiped out everybody else
◼
►
who was there but he took it out of the
◼
►
way by himself and now he's valuing only
◼
►
his he's valuing everyone else's lives
◼
►
above his own instead of saying well I'm
◼
►
gonna make a choice and destroy this
◼
►
here but you know maybe I'll survive and
◼
►
we'll go off and do whatever so it kind
◼
►
of made the sacrifice a little more
◼
►
meaningful I still don't quite buy it as
◼
►
an ending but and he did it without a
◼
►
quip too which is nice right you know
◼
►
man something he hesitated and he yeah
◼
►
exactly thinking and that's another
◼
►
thing I love I love to see characters
◼
►
think on stage and screen
◼
►
I don't care where and you don't get to
◼
►
see that often enough I really in like a
◼
►
team know enjoyed it but I was really
◼
►
impressed with that and then when we get
◼
►
the play back later where you can hear
◼
►
him and he tells Diana I can save the
◼
►
day but you can save the world and I
◼
►
really liked that he it sort of felt
◼
►
like he'd done the math on all of that
◼
►
you know even when when he said I need
◼
►
you guys to give me some cover and run
◼
►
into the plane or whatever it was you
◼
►
know and they all tried to talk him out
◼
►
of it and then he finds her and gets the
◼
►
chance to talk to her for a second and
◼
►
then goes up and that was the thing like
◼
►
he did hesitate and and you watch him
◼
►
like it sort of felt like when he grabs
◼
►
her lasso when he tells her they're
◼
►
going anyway and that he lied you know
◼
►
oh this is the to idea yeah and and I
◼
►
sort of felt like he was thinking about
◼
►
that like I even said this was a
◼
►
terrible idea and it's sort of like
◼
►
working through it in his head if he's
◼
►
like but it's what I have to do right
◼
►
and you know I know that there's a
◼
►
certain amount of that that probably had
◼
►
to happen for story reasons and you know
◼
►
one thing another like we can't make
◼
►
another movie with Steve Trevor and
◼
►
that'd that I have ideas now yeah you
◼
►
know and well he can come back to be a
◼
►
nedda's movie he's good at second fiddle
◼
►
to the lady so we should just do that
◼
►
more where it's at a show with the
◼
►
occasional appearance and special guest
◼
►
Steve Trevor I'd be into that so yeah
◼
►
I've got ideas for the sequel they could
◼
►
do it they really want to oh yeah yeah
◼
►
Wonder Woman rogues gallery has witches
◼
►
has magic users that stuff can be done I
◼
►
get out my big problem with it and this
◼
►
is this is the Zack Snyder influence is
◼
►
that Diana needs to be free to flirt
◼
►
with Bruce Wayne and I don't care
◼
►
flirting with Bruce Wayne shield Oh
◼
►
Steve Trevor that's Wonder Woman come on
◼
►
he's a good life for her but a later
◼
►
version Zack Snyder has proven in
◼
►
several films now that he totally
◼
►
misunderstands Batman Superman and all
◼
►
the rest of them so of course it's gonna
◼
►
be yeah anyway hi I've started haven't I
◼
►
oh but well so yeah I can I can go ahead
◼
►
and do it very quickly because that's
◼
►
you know that's part of it is I love so
◼
►
much of this movie and then it comes to
◼
►
the big climactic battle scene
◼
►
beautifully shot beautifully
◼
►
choreographed that's fine it's from a
◼
►
totally different movie and I don't care
◼
►
there's too much of it it's too big it
◼
►
is straight out of Zack Snyder's fevered
◼
►
imagination in the middle of this really
◼
►
good movie otherwise and I don't know
◼
►
how I would have ended it I don't know
◼
►
how I would have done it differently but
◼
►
I you know I kind of just tuned out
◼
►
after a while it's like but I've seen
◼
►
this I've seen x-men I've seen Batman
◼
►
and Superman I've seen Man of Steel
◼
►
I don't care show me something new the
◼
►
rest of the movie showed me something
◼
►
new and you're ending it like a Zack
◼
►
Snyder movie did anybody else have that
◼
►
same feeling I can see David's point I
◼
►
don't think I've seen enough superhero
◼
►
movies to be totally tired of it but but
◼
►
I can see the possibility
◼
►
I mean if it's the only one you've seen
◼
►
then it would work that's not the only
◼
►
one I've seen but I know I know and it
◼
►
fits the beat as you said it fits the
◼
►
beat of a typical superhero movie which
◼
►
is not necessarily what we've gotten to
◼
►
this point right it was I mean I usually
◼
►
get bored by - invincible beings going
◼
►
up against each other but I feel that
◼
►
the actions in the fight were sort of
◼
►
earned and deserved and there wasn't
◼
►
gratuitous in any way and it wasn't they
◼
►
weren't there just to show off the moves
◼
►
so to speak I think that I think that it
◼
►
had just about the right amount I
◼
►
usually buy those things I was not bored
◼
►
by that by the fight scene and now that
◼
►
you mention it now that I think about it
◼
►
we've seen the effect of crossing her
◼
►
bracelets early on why didn't she just
◼
►
do that like ten minutes earlier but she
◼
►
lives a tank and she does this and she
◼
►
does that does that and then finally
◼
►
what what beats him crossing her
◼
►
bracelets well duh you know so I believe
◼
►
it was Zack Snyder dumb I don't like
◼
►
what it were for me it was it was longer
◼
►
than it needed to be I yeah yeah but but
◼
►
the the fight and I think even the the
◼
►
style of the fight of the two super
◼
►
beings was kind of important because all
◼
►
of the other fight scenes in the movie
◼
►
you know had consequences were war based
◼
►
fight scenes but the whole thing was
◼
►
this is her journey from a little girl
◼
►
on an island to recognizing the god
◼
►
goddess that she is and and coming into
◼
►
those powers fully and I think if we
◼
►
didn't have this sort of you know God
◼
►
level conflict at the end it wouldn't
◼
►
have been a full a full circle sort of a
◼
►
thing of her her coming into her own in
◼
►
the way that she should have I do agree
◼
►
that I didn't need as much of it as I
◼
►
got right and it and it totally makes
◼
►
sense that way and and yeah I think I
◼
►
think it did need something like that i
◼
►
I just wanted it to be smarter the way
◼
►
the rest of the movie was
◼
►
mm-hmm I think I could have done with a
◼
►
little less of it and then you know a
◼
►
few minutes not not cut it in half or
◼
►
anything like that but a little bit less
◼
►
of that and a tiny bit more sort of
◼
►
aftermath standing there you know
◼
►
finding out a little bit about about the
◼
►
characters we know and like where is dr.
◼
►
Poisson you know after all of this
◼
►
because Diana didn't throw the tank on
◼
►
her and you know does she sneak off so
◼
►
that now we have another story
◼
►
possibility for something down the line
◼
►
or whatever and you know getting to
◼
►
plant some seeds for other stuff like I
◼
►
would have been nice with a couple three
◼
►
minutes of just that there as the Sun
◼
►
rose you know and and those
◼
►
excruciatingly ly young guys are taking
◼
►
off the gas masses and marveling at the
◼
►
sunrise was I thought that part was
◼
►
really powerful and I felt way more
◼
►
invested in that sort of aftermath than
◼
►
I was in a good portion of the battle
◼
►
that preceded it yeah well and cuz cuz
◼
►
again we know she's going to win so
◼
►
there's not a lot of suspense there so
◼
►
why drag it out do enough but yeah yeah
◼
►
I figured it was to serve the
◼
►
conversation they were having yep and I
◼
►
didn't necessarily know that she was
◼
►
going to to defeat him and kill him I
◼
►
mean for cuz since I don't know much
◼
►
about the the comic books I didn't know
◼
►
if he was she was going to just let him
◼
►
go and be like you know what you're
◼
►
right it is them so you might as well
◼
►
just go live on a mountain somewhere I'm
◼
►
gonna keep trying to help humanity but
◼
►
no she actually destroyed him and I you
◼
►
know I appreciated the size of the
◼
►
crater that was impressive yes yeah yeah
◼
►
it was above average alright well we
◼
►
have been going at this for quite a
◼
►
while so I think we should go around and
◼
►
do a - a round of final thoughts before
◼
►
we before we close things out so Alyssa
◼
►
what what are your final thoughts on
◼
►
Wonder Woman take everyone you know to
◼
►
go see this take your daughters take
◼
►
your friends take random strangers on
◼
►
the street and bring them in I think
◼
►
this is really just a fantastic movie to
◼
►
show a unique version of the heroes
◼
►
and I'm also just really invested in
◼
►
seeing a movie held by a woman and
◼
►
directed by a woman really make it big
◼
►
be successful and sort of own that
◼
►
victory so everyone should go see this
◼
►
if you have not seen it yet here here
◼
►
Steven final thoughts
◼
►
I hope this leads to many more female
◼
►
directed female driven movies I would be
◼
►
happy to see female directed male driven
◼
►
movies because even that is a different
◼
►
perspective that we don't have much of I
◼
►
hope this hope this leads to at least
◼
►
two I don't want one so that the press
◼
►
will automatically compare this one to
◼
►
the to the last one and as they always
◼
►
seem to do here here so it's it's uh you
◼
►
know I like to watch for I'm a toy list
◼
►
I like watching how directors do things
◼
►
and you know the best this is the best
◼
►
comic book movie I've seen in some time
◼
►
and I think one of the best movies I've
◼
►
seen ever was edited by a woman up being
◼
►
I appreciate the feel much perspective
◼
►
on action movies they deserve to have
◼
►
more chances to shine alright Shannon I
◼
►
echo both of those things go see it give
◼
►
us more women telling these stories I
◼
►
also appreciate that the movie had I
◼
►
think just the right balance of
◼
►
fanservice I mentioned the Easter egg of
◼
►
the of the Blackhawk squad the fight in
◼
►
the alleyway where she gets the bullet
◼
►
on her bracelet in front of him goes
◼
►
back to the Superman Christopher Reeve
◼
►
scene you know that there's so many
◼
►
wonderful little bits in there um that
◼
►
really really work whether you know the
◼
►
comics or the history or not I just
◼
►
think they found a really good again
◼
►
balance in so many different ways mm-hmm
◼
►
David final thoughts I agree with
◼
►
everybody I you know and even even with
◼
►
my Zack Snyder reservations
◼
►
I loved this movie this is one of the
◼
►
best comic book movies I've ever seen it
◼
►
it gets what and I've said this on other
◼
►
episodes about comic book movies it gets
◼
►
the essence of what it is to be heroic
◼
►
that you can be heroic because it's just
◼
►
the right thing to do right and that's
◼
►
part of when she says you know what
◼
►
would I be if I stayed that's that's the
◼
►
and Man of Steel didn't get it Batman
◼
►
versus Superman didn't get it
◼
►
a lot of the Marvel movies do right they
◼
►
make the choice and she makes that
◼
►
choice too because this is what I have
◼
►
to do and I don't I can't I can't not do
◼
►
right and who would I be if I didn't do
◼
►
it and it's just nice to see that it's
◼
►
nice to see the earnestness played for
◼
►
what it is to just you don't have to
◼
►
have this ironic smirk at everything you
◼
►
see right and and especially setting it
◼
►
in that time period to helps to
◼
►
emphasize that to say this was a more
◼
►
innocent time and that's okay so yeah I
◼
►
take take everyone you can to see it
◼
►
tell everyone to see it go see it more
◼
►
than once it's just really well done
◼
►
and and and the chemistry between them
◼
►
that's part of why I was upset about his
◼
►
ending because I want more movies of the
◼
►
two of them together they were so lovely
◼
►
together I can do it if they really want
◼
►
to okay yeah drums shatter I will better
◼
►
kelly close this out what are your what
◼
►
are your final thoughts um all of that
◼
►
it was super fun um if you are a person
◼
►
whom I personally know I will gladly go
◼
►
with you again I will hold your hand and
◼
►
supply Kleenex is necessary
◼
►
um and the thing for me for about this
◼
►
movie was um I'm sad it took until I was
◼
►
basically an adult for it to happen but
◼
►
I'm really happy that it did because if
◼
►
it hadn't taken this long we wouldn't
◼
►
have gotten the movie we got and you
◼
►
know and let until unless and until all
◼
►
of the other stuff happened that that
◼
►
got the movie to this point where it
◼
►
finally did get patty Jenkins and it
◼
►
finally did get gal gadot and it did get
◼
►
Chris Pine and it did get Robin Wright
◼
►
like if if it had been before now we
◼
►
wouldn't have gotten those people and so
◼
►
you know it's it's that thing that
◼
►
Leslie Jones said on SNL that I was
◼
►
think of you know somebody fired Oprah
◼
►
when she was 23 well of course they did
◼
►
she wasn't over yet and she had to get
◼
►
fired in order to become Oprah you know
◼
►
and I feel like that's what this that's
◼
►
how this movie went so I was sad not to
◼
►
have it when I was a little girl but I'm
◼
►
really glad that this is the one that
◼
►
the world gets to see and I'm really
◼
►
glad because it's so good it's
◼
►
objectively good and maybe now we'll get
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►
a black widow movie and maybe now we'll
◼
►
get you know like I'm gonna say this for
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►
girls for for Gail Simone herself there
◼
►
needs to be a birds-of-prey movie and
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►
maybe now that will be a thing or you're
◼
►
here the secret six or something like
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►
because it's it's not that this is a
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►
novelty it's not that this is weird it's
◼
►
just a good movie and there's a lot to
◼
►
be done for good movies you know just
◼
►
objectively and I really liked the the
◼
►
statement about like a woman's
◼
►
perspective on on any particular stories
◼
►
is different and interesting and we
◼
►
should see that and given the number of
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►
reboots and sequels and prequels that go
◼
►
on now one of the trailers for the movie
◼
►
when I saw it was a Transformers trailer
◼
►
yeah they're doing that again uh yeah
◼
►
deep sigh and I role um for me like I
◼
►
don't want to see that so much as I want
◼
►
to see you know what the next patty
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►
Jenkins movie or who worked with patty
◼
►
Jenkins who's going to go direct their
◼
►
own movie and what's that going to be
◼
►
about and how is that going to be
◼
►
interesting and that's what I want so I
◼
►
really hope that this sort of becomes a
◼
►
you know the way Star Wars was a big
◼
►
deal space movie like maybe this will be
◼
►
the big deal girl superhero movie and
◼
►
now we will get more of them because
◼
►
people will understand it does make
◼
►
money and you do sell tickets to girls
◼
►
and you can sell tickets to boys even if
◼
►
the movie stars a girl and you know it
◼
►
really would have been okay if you had
◼
►
called the movie princess of Mars and
◼
►
like yeah there's a whole bunch I have a
◼
►
lot to bring to this but for me that's
◼
►
what I want is for this
◼
►
in a fabulous pair of boots to kick down
◼
►
that door so that more of this can
◼
►
happen here here Kelly one of the things
◼
►
that that you said was that you were sad
◼
►
for yourself that you didn't get this
◼
►
movie when you were a little kid and I
◼
►
think one of my favorite things about
◼
►
the existence in this movie is the fact
◼
►
that there are a ton of little girls who
◼
►
do have in this movie now and all of the
◼
►
pictures that I saw on Twitter of little
◼
►
girls dressed up as Wonder Woman and
◼
►
just being so excited about it like that
◼
►
that just warms my heart I'm really
◼
►
really excited and I co everything
◼
►
everybody else has said about hoping
◼
►
that this means that there will be more
◼
►
because I think that those little girls
◼
►
deserve more than just a single awesome
◼
►
movie they should be able to get more
◼
►
they should also be able to get some
◼
►
some female led movies that fail and and
◼
►
have that be okay because Lord I've had
◼
►
it once and then maybe grow up not to
◼
►
just be heroic and do good things
◼
►
themselves but to grow up and write and
◼
►
direct movies - yep yep yeah exactly so
◼
►
thank you everybody for joining me
◼
►
Shannon thanks so much for being here
◼
►
always a pleasure Melissa been fantastic
◼
►
Stephen I know that I sort of didn't
◼
►
give you a choice but thank you anyway
◼
►
knows when to be subservient I know my
◼
►
role and I know my place and I was happy
◼
►
to be here with you all today
◼
►
dick fit as always thank you for being
◼
►
here well as always thank you not Jason
◼
►
I think you are also above average I am
◼
►
Kelly month thank you so much for being
◼
►
here thanks so much for having me it was
◼
►
a really fun time and again I am Erica
◼
►
and sign and we'll see you hopefully
◼
►
with Jason back in his chair next time