Roderick on the Line

Ep. 251: "Popped Out"

 

  [Music] [TS]

  hello hi John John Ricca haha I'll just [TS]

  say that so how do you feel about that [TS]

  particular little hairpin in the career [TS]

  of DL Roth how'd you feel about that [TS]

  where's the stinky from the heat what's [TS]

  it called loco del colle or what's the [TS]

  name of it taco pasta crazy from the [TS]

  heat crazy Oh del colle or David Lee [TS]

  Roth official website how do I feel [TS]

  about it how did I then or how do I feel [TS]

  about it now well well oh goodness [TS]

  can I close this tab um well here's what [TS]

  you had you had you had the you had the [TS]

  van Halen like five really good albums [TS]

  well you know for really good albums did [TS]

  some good albums and then the DLR left [TS]

  and Sammy Hagar asked the musical [TS]

  question why can't this be love right so [TS]

  I don't remember exactly what happened I [TS]

  think there was some bad blood with that [TS]

  word sugar and DLR DL Roth goes off on [TS]

  his own and puts out low code el calor [TS]

  and what were the hits you had counts of [TS]

  California Gurls [TS]

  yep it would be and and just a gigolo [TS]

  slash I got nobody [TS]

  yeah yeah those were the big hits [TS]

  I I don't even think it was uh I don't [TS]

  even think it was a full record was it [TS]

  wasn't it like a big EP was it crazy [TS]

  from the heat oh my goodness [TS]

  oh my goodness no wait nevermind Oh Edom [TS]

  and smile heatoman smile came in 1986 oh [TS]

  my goodness you're so right okay okay [TS]

  here we go we got 14 minute long record [TS]

  oh my goodness 1406 temperament has his [TS]

  imprimatur on that one too I mean think [TS]

  about think about how many copies of [TS]

  that EP sold right yeah every single [TS]

  person started a cover band only a [TS]

  thousand people ever bought it think [TS]

  about that and think about this is the [TS]

  thing I've reflected on this before [TS]

  which is that David Lee Roth did not [TS]

  write any songs for this album right [TS]

  they're all covers so how difficult [TS]

  would it have been for him to make a [TS]

  full-length album at this point he could [TS]

  have just picked ten Tin Pan Alley songs [TS]

  instead of four okay so he's got a cure [TS]

  winter and Edgar Winter song and Edgar [TS]

  Winter cover get a Louis Prima right [TS]

  leave Prima cover you got a Beach Boys [TS]

  cover get a cover of a song I've never [TS]

  heard of by the lovin spoonful for songs [TS]

  tour songs now why why didn't he do what [TS]

  he do like good morning little [TS]

  schoolgirl and some coverage for David [TS]

  Lee Roth for dlr the man himself dl roth [TS]

  to do yeah in 1984 released in 1985 I [TS]

  think dem bones dem bones dem dry bones [TS]

  got behind the list absolutely it's just [TS]

  a strange it's a strange turn is all I'm [TS]

  saying [TS]

  it feels like a rush to market strategy [TS]

  I think is the business term thing if I [TS]

  want to get something out but [TS]

  look at the personnel you look at the [TS]

  personnel on this get Colson and [TS]

  Christopher Cross in the studio Wow [TS]

  well he have the power right mm-hmm this [TS]

  is before he before he put together a [TS]

  the band with Steve Vai let's see you [TS]

  can eat him and smile yeah Yankee [TS]

  woodsies see what I'm what I'm saying [TS]

  though is that if you look at the five [TS]

  greater let's say four great van Halen [TS]

  albums with TLR every one of them's got [TS]

  ice cream man or you know there's so [TS]

  much of that stuff that would fit right [TS]

  on eat him and smile or right on crazy [TS]

  from the heat David was chomping at the [TS]

  bit I think this is one of those you [TS]

  know the way the way Lennon talks about [TS]

  McCartney where he's like by the time I [TS]

  got to the end [TS]

  mmm-hmm I just knew exactly what he was [TS]

  gonna play at all times it was just he [TS]

  thought he thought he thought McCartney [TS]

  was corny yeah and I think that I think [TS]

  that Eddie Van Halen from the very [TS]

  beginning was like this guy is such [TS]

  cheeseball David always wanted to put [TS]

  more accordion in the thing eventually [TS]

  he was like I got a I got to do this [TS]

  myself I got to get out there and put on [TS]

  a show for people and have fun he's John [TS]

  Roderick DL Roth is above all a showman [TS]

  a show man in the business that is show [TS]

  you know you cannot keep that man in a [TS]

  box the answer to DL are in a box is not [TS]

  a bigger box let that man out of his box [TS]

  cuz he's got to show and he did girls [TS]

  wouldn't that when that video came out [TS]

  it encapsulated the 80s it really did [TS]

  that was peak eighties so DL are on the [TS]

  beach with all that and you know and [TS]

  like shameless [TS]

  it was so shameless just my math here [TS]

  but it had a lot of girls in bikinis was [TS]

  that right girls in bikinis there was a [TS]

  lot of fisheye lens shots mmm there was [TS]

  it was just like a costume parade it was [TS]

  a it was like a day at Venice Beach I [TS]

  don't know there was a [TS]

  of the 80s let's say the version of the [TS]

  80s that that was the that was the peak [TS]

  moment of it [TS]

  peek mid 80s I'm gonna peg to either [TS]

  that or you spin me round' by dead her [TS]

  life oh well see yeah sure that was one [TS]

  of the first well excluding Bananarama [TS]

  which we really haven't talked enough [TS]

  about excluding Bananarama that's when [TS]

  the stock Aitken Waterman thing I think [TS]

  that might have been their first essay [TS]

  w's first big hit was around and then [TS]

  they kind of owned it for a couple years [TS]

  everything with bump bump bump I don't [TS]

  know but was all octaves everywhere I [TS]

  listened to a yeah I listened to that [TS]

  the other day I listened to the single [TS]

  version which I liked but I listened to [TS]

  an extended it starts out mostly [TS]

  instrumental and you know that thing [TS]

  when they do a remix oh just makes it a [TS]

  long version where they would have part [TS]

  of the vocals and the vocals would be [TS]

  echoey and they call it a remix but man [TS]

  that is that is a Swiss clock of [TS]

  sequencing that's some nice ass sequence [TS]

  anyway I'm taking off your topic but [TS]

  that was a pivot point in the mid 80s I [TS]

  think was you spin me around but you [TS]

  might be right you might be right about [TS]

  um about el loco del Colle or that that [TS]

  that in the break to like the break in [TS]

  that in you spin me right round right [TS]

  where it goes [TS]

  that's very tough it's fun to play even [TS]

  on acoustic guitar you go like you know [TS]

  like a GCC or GDD you do like a little [TS]

  walk down bump bump bump alright wait [TS]

  witness an octave it's an octave [TS]

  it's dr. VAR v boy that's an octave [TS]

  anyway it's super fun to do but you do a [TS]

  walk down it's basically it's basically [TS]

  wipeout right it's why is the wipeout [TS]

  walk down the wipeout walk down I can't [TS]

  there's a there's there's a there's f1 [TS]

  tune that also does that yeah they're [TS]

  pretty well known one with that exact [TS]

  same walk down in the same key I believe [TS]

  pretty well yeah pretty well [TS]

  Taurus I believe well who was the man [TS]

  they ripped off was that Taurus Tarsus [TS]

  Tarsus Tarsus his early stairway rip off [TS]

  heaven never gonna give you up dude it [TS]

  was s aw that was this aw you got Kylie [TS]

  Minogue pump up the volume pump up the [TS]

  volume pump that maybe we should just [TS]

  vocalize psaltery like from a low point [TS]

  that was the beginning of the end for me [TS]

  that high energy high ass exactly that's [TS]

  the genre this and our Jim yeah that was [TS]

  for me there were that was where I [TS]

  started to pop out of 80's pop Tom okay [TS]

  pop cause it was it was so and I'm not [TS]

  talking about you spin me round' because [TS]

  that was still new wave it felt like [TS]

  that was an exciting moment of new wave [TS]

  that was well that was also it was with [TS]

  his persona and video and the sound I [TS]

  mean that was such a new sound that was [TS]

  I mean that did not sound like Shannon [TS]

  that I'm trying to think of other bands [TS]

  of that type but of that the high energy [TS]

  stuff but it really though if he was [TS]

  doing gender play two at a time when it [TS]

  was like what's happening here it was [TS]

  very exciting it was a lumberjack I mean [TS]

  that guy was really swinging for the [TS]

  fences no you're probably right but then [TS]

  you slide into you're sliding into 86 [TS]

  which in some ways is if not a [TS]

  high-water mark it's a mark but 1987 [TS]

  things are starting to get pretty rough [TS]

  87 88 and 88 I feel like things really [TS]

  87 88 like under the surface of the [TS]

  water the Ducks feet are moving around [TS]

  you're getting some Pixies action but [TS]

  like but man a lot of bands really some [TS]

  of their poorest work in 1987-88 I think [TS]

  of that era as being Bon Jovi dominated [TS]

  oh yeah right IANA steel horsey rides [TS]

  like in excess kick [TS]

  it was which I thought was a low point [TS]

  it was it was Def Leppard's adrenalized [TS]

  yeah it was all these bands that you [TS]

  know that had that it started off kind [TS]

  of sounding like teenage ac/dc and by [TS]

  the end had become just like comedic [TS]

  stadium rock that I just couldn't I [TS]

  couldn't I I had to bail out of all of [TS]

  that but it was also Peter Gabriel so so [TS]

  was hammers 86 yeah I think yeah okay [TS]

  here we go I don't wanna go through this [TS]

  whole thing because it would take a year [TS]

  but the list of Billboard Hot 100 [TS]

  number-one singles of 1987 no I know go [TS]

  to 88 80 go to 88 cuz you're right that [TS]

  was the that was dead dead time 88 okay [TS]

  Oh [TS]

  start with faith by George Michael [TS]

  that's a good song right [TS]

  it's so emotional I think better in [TS]

  retrospect I got my mind set on you not [TS]

  a great song right the way you make me [TS]

  feel not peak Jackson I need you tonight [TS]

  that's not bug me we you and me we go [TS]

  back and forth on the INXS but I think [TS]

  the earlier stuff is probably a little [TS]

  better I I need you tonight well in [TS]

  excess I owe you gonna give you up never [TS]

  gonna you know is true I tell you love [TS]

  your secret heart [TS]

  I was stand-in you were there two worlds [TS]

  collided tear us apart we don't know [TS]

  that the POW who is that [TS]

  okay man in the mirror Oh God get out of [TS]

  my dreams to get into my car [TS]

  he claims Billy ocean mmm the stone the [TS]

  stone roses when did when did Stone [TS]

  Roses come out oh shit dog look at this [TS]

  okay hang on [TS]

  Oh a couple more here let's see wishing [TS]

  well that's pretty good song together [TS]

  for the flame terrible song a cheap [TS]

  trick then you get I actually was really [TS]

  into Terence Trent d'Arby for that first [TS]

  fighter on that first blast and then you [TS]

  know where did he that was a good song [TS]

  that was a good record that's when that [TS]

  showed up Steve Winwood what do you [TS]

  think have you have you noticed this - [TS]

  no I think I think what we're getting at [TS]

  here yes is the beginning of what I this [TS]

  was the first generation gap that I [TS]

  strongly felt oh really like you feel [TS]

  yeah a little left behind or like you [TS]

  walked away from it you popped out well [TS]

  yeah not left behind by any means but [TS]

  like the the when I was a freshman in [TS]

  high school the seniors in high school [TS]

  had music that I identified as my music [TS]

  right the even the guys that had [TS]

  graduated a couple of years before I [TS]

  went into high school the music that [TS]

  they were listening to that was popular [TS]

  at the time right [TS]

  we still claimed as ours new wave punk [TS]

  rock but also but I mean there was this [TS]

  is like this murder of bands from that [TS]

  really you know you think of those you [TS]

  know if I say late 70s hard rock bands [TS]

  there's like six bands we could all name [TS]

  that pretty much everybody liked you [TS]

  know everybody liked foreigner everybody [TS]

  liked Boston [TS]

  almost everybody likes getting head back [TS]

  in black yeah well yeah the heavier [TS]

  stuff but there was like solid hard rock [TS]

  that was pretty unobjectionable to [TS]

  everybody up until it the early eighties [TS]

  when floor [TS]

  got synthesizers and stuff like that but [TS]

  you put that all the way through I mean [TS]

  even in 286 when we were listening to [TS]

  Glenn Frey and I mean all that stuff [TS]

  came out of bands of the 70s you could [TS]

  still make a connection to it yep but [TS]

  between 86 when I graduated an 88 two [TS]

  years later I still feel like I meet [TS]

  people in the world and you want to [TS]

  think you graduated high school in 88 we [TS]

  are almost exactly the same generation [TS]

  but I have feel so much more in common [TS]

  with the class of 84 that is that's a [TS]

  really good point yes the end of the 70s [TS]

  in some ways yeah and by the time I meet [TS]

  somebody who graduated in 88 almost all [TS]

  of their cultural touchstones are [TS]

  different they have different beginning [TS]

  points they're not based in a Arrowsmith [TS]

  economy yeah they're based in a you know [TS]

  they they're they came out of they came [TS]

  out of New Wave and and pop metal in a [TS]

  totally different way and so I'm I'm [TS]

  always feeling like somebody whose [TS]

  moment was you know their junior year [TS]

  whatever was in the late 80s I just [TS]

  can't I don't have that I and I felt it [TS]

  even then like what the hell is [TS]

  happening to you kids [TS]

  right right right they're games now the [TS]

  video games really catching on around in [TS]

  - yeah and I was 18 years old and I [TS]

  already felt like wow and that was [TS]

  Bossier between you between two [TS]

  generations that was why that the Guns [TS]

  N'Roses record was so powerful because [TS]

  it felt like a throwback it felt like [TS]

  very odd it was really well crafted and [TS]

  thought it's really authentic I know [TS]

  we'd like to avoid that term run the [TS]

  show it's been talking about music but [TS]

  it felt like now this is the real deal [TS]

  like this is the shit man well because [TS]

  those songs were were written in a blues [TS]

  vernacular they were blue scale songs [TS]

  and all metal at that time had [TS]

  transitioned to [TS]

  mixolydian you know it had gone it had [TS]

  gone through this weird classical this I [TS]

  this Yngwie Malmsteen idea that [TS]

  classical music was what we were gonna [TS]

  bring into metal got some hard rock to [TS]

  difficult rock difficult rock right and [TS]

  just like with scalloped stupid you're [TS]

  absolutely right but also you had to [TS]

  know what somebody's gotta laugh jokes [TS]

  Marilyn are you there here's the thing [TS]

  so this after that I will do all of [TS]

  these but here's your run-through feed [TS]

  run few days out of the year you [TS]

  includes don't worry be happy [TS]

  Love Bites by Def Leppard the very [TS]

  interesting crazy comeback of red red [TS]

  one by ub40 put on the radio I leave the [TS]

  venue ready for this November it gets [TS]

  pretty good you get to Kokomo Kokomo by [TS]

  the Beach Boys you get wild with so with [TS]

  Rob Lowe on drums right now on drums [TS]

  know it's the father from the San [TS]

  Francisco baby show John Stamos played [TS]

  something thank you put a question on [TS]

  that one [TS]

  Wow well West bad medicine your love is [TS]

  like bad medicine by Bon Jovi you get [TS]

  baby I love your way slash Freiberg [TS]

  medley by will to power look away by [TS]

  Chicago and finally you know it buddy [TS]

  Merry Christmas every rose has its thorn [TS]

  by poison annus horribilis that is so [TS]

  bad that is such a bad collection of [TS]

  songs and you know that should have been [TS]

  that should have been peak us I was [TS]

  nineteen eighteen nineteen I should have [TS]

  been like mm-hm [TS]

  and it was at the time I knew it was [TS]

  garbage at the time I was listening to [TS]

  the Steve Miller Band because there was [TS]

  nothing else let's see Oh toy soldiers [TS]

  now I'm in 289 by Marty I could do this [TS]

  all day yeah yeah yeah me too but I [TS]

  don't want to and and I don't want to [TS]

  validate that year by talking about it [TS]

  now [TS]

  lai was such a race down time and and I [TS]

  was I had ejected myself from from youth [TS]

  culture I don't think I don't think [TS]

  people now can understand this the the [TS]

  other thing that was happening he's [TS]

  culture killed your dog [TS]

  well it was the 20 year anniversary of [TS]

  the year that the baby boomers cresteds [TS]

  of 1968 and there was this total retro [TS]

  60s the 60s are gonna make the 90s look [TS]

  like the to 2010 it was you had it was [TS]

  88 let's see no it might be 89 when you [TS]

  had like the harmonic convergence coming [TS]

  remember that was gonna be a big thing [TS]

  yeah harmonic convergence moronic [TS]

  convergence the bhagwan shree rajneesh [TS]

  is out there bog warning you got waco [TS]

  you get your bug wands Bhagwan and you [TS]

  get your weight go no no that was a [TS]

  hippie er that was an again I felt kind [TS]

  of mad because I've been into the hippie [TS]

  stuff a little bit before that so I [TS]

  thought I was a little bit played well [TS]

  but it was hippie [TS]

  it was hippie music but it was also what [TS]

  year did the doors movie come out Oh [TS]

  with what's the same tile Kilmer doors [TS]

  yeah I'm gonna say 1990s my guests 91 [TS]

  okay so what was that right in there [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  oh my gosh but yet but there was a movie [TS]

  and this is before the 80s are gonna [TS]

  make those 60s look like the 42s [TS]

  mm-hmm there was a there was a Winona [TS]

  Ryder movie that had Ironman in it oh [TS]

  it's a transition from like brat pack to [TS]

  Love Bites no blood bites vote loves [TS]

  vulgar vulgar what's the what was her [TS]

  movie with the love rush actually love [TS]

  stinks [TS]

  no but it was a period piece it was set [TS]

  in 1968 it may have even been called [TS]

  1968 yes and it had like a lot of it had [TS]

  a lot of those scenes where somebody's [TS]

  driving a Volkswagen bus and it and the [TS]

  the soundtrack is Crosby Stills and Nash [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]

  60 song you know yeah who likes can't [TS]

  heat okay who comes home from work and [TS]

  the 60s and puts on fucking canned heat [TS]

  I've never understood that [TS]

  well that was also the era of singles [TS]

  radio everybody was buying 45s then so [TS]

  you didn't have to I mean there was [TS]

  there was AM radio and all that great [TS]

  70s music like long cool woman in a [TS]

  black dress like who you know nobody [TS]

  bought a Hollies album but they bought [TS]

  Hollies single yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  movies 1969 1969 came out in 1980 1969 [TS]

  is gonna make 1988 look like the 42 s [TS]

  that's Robert Downey jr. keep referring [TS]

  to Kiefer [TS]

  Keith er Sutherland you got Bruce [TS]

  different Paul Mariette Hartley [TS]

  she's a treat Wynonna Rider mmm 69 the [TS]

  movie and so I so that was that moment [TS]

  where it was like we are like I am 20 [TS]

  years old and I am celebrating the [TS]

  culture of 20 years ago and everyone's [TS]

  wearing little round glasses and drawing [TS]

  peace signs on their army jackets party [TS]

  world party right yes and and there was [TS]

  like this it was all it was that feeling [TS]

  that that was the high-water mark of the [TS]

  of the 20th century youth culture and we [TS]

  don't have our own because punk rock had [TS]

  like had become the de-facto youth [TS]

  culture of of a tiny fraction of youth [TS]

  and everyone else was just you know [TS]

  listening to dead or alive and sort of [TS]

  seen around it right but even the cult [TS]

  even the cult was putting out sixties [TS]

  music and rocking 60s Austin Tears for [TS]

  Fears sowing the seeds of love as a 60s [TS]

  retro don't you think so no it's it's [TS]

  basically I mean I've heard talk about [TS]

  this it was very influenced I watched [TS]

  something a cup this is really quick a [TS]

  week or two ago this amazing recent live [TS]

  performance by Tears for Fears which [TS]

  were primarily it's the two guys plus [TS]

  band people and they sounded fucking [TS]

  great they sounded so good and I always [TS]

  liked that tune I was lying it was very [TS]

  very emblematic of that new psychedelia [TS]

  or you know what I mean kind of updated [TS]

  psychedelia feeling the Tears for Fears [TS]

  is an embarrassing moment for me [TS]

  one of them one of several right that [TS]

  you get that you encountered throughout [TS]

  life when Tears for Fears was on the [TS]

  radio I despised it and partly it was I [TS]

  think I was picking up that that retro [TS]

  psychedelic vibe without really may be [TS]

  fully grokking where it was coming from [TS]

  but the two guys had such frowny faces [TS]

  they were just like so over serious and [TS]

  so like over emotive and just dramatic [TS]

  and it was very synth driven stuff and I [TS]

  was I just felt like opposed to it [TS]

  because there was a lot of catchy pop on [TS]

  the radio at the time yeah and and it [TS]

  was also a big period in our lives where [TS]

  your reaction to culture was as much [TS]

  about oh - talking here about probably [TS]

  like more of songs from the big chair [TS]

  than the hurting you're talking about [TS]

  like the shout era right well the whole [TS]

  thing was really good I mean you're [TS]

  right when you turn against a band [TS]

  though you know and because I'd been a [TS]

  huge flock of seagulls fan everybody [TS]

  else was what turned against him but I [TS]

  didn't think you could deny those [TS]

  singles I thought they were so strong [TS]

  that you know there wasn't any you [TS]

  couldn't futz around home Peter Parker [TS]

  goes to the homecoming dance in the [TS]

  spider-man movie he walks in there [TS]

  playing space a love song great song [TS]

  I mean that's not a cultural reference [TS]

  point for me but yes I get that you saw [TS]

  a spider-man movie once with the one [TS]

  that just came out made hundred [TS]

  seventeen million dollars and it's [TS]

  probably the best Marvel movie ever made [TS]

  yeah it's the one I'm talking about [TS]

  you're gonna want to see there's no [TS]

  origin story in it it goes straight to [TS]

  the meat and he's played by an actual [TS]

  kid it's really nice there's a nice [TS]

  scene with the save it for later which [TS]

  is a nice song that's a good song you [TS]

  know save it for later and happy [TS]

  dangerous flight pole-sitter [TS]

  same exact song cover save it for later [TS]

  well they did because because I think [TS]

  somebody said hey your song is the same [TS]

  as that song and then they covered it as [TS]

  I kind of like walk those guys the save [TS]

  it for later dudes the the pop star you [TS]

  beat thank you the beat they became big [TS]

  Harvey danger fans and whenever he yeah [TS]

  whenever the English beat was in town [TS]

  they would call Sean and Sean would jump [TS]

  up with them and do save it for later [TS]

  complicated that's a complicated [TS]

  anecdote so and then Harvey danger would [TS]

  do a medley of the two songs but what [TS]

  got more complicated way English beat [TS]

  singer guy blondie blondie we call him [TS]

  according to Sean he started calling him [TS]

  too much that's nice to hear we can the [TS]

  other guy was ranking Roger [TS]

  I remember ranking Roger yep because [TS]

  they were before the English be UK they [TS]

  were in they had that earlier BAM that [TS]

  was even [TS]

  like a different no Meah no no no you're [TS]

  reversing it the general public and [TS]

  before general public was devote oh okay [TS]

  okay that's what it is you know what a [TS]

  racist I am when I only knew them from [TS]

  having their singles collection [TS]

  what is beat which is a great singles [TS]

  collection I thought the black guy was [TS]

  the singer how about that how's that for [TS]

  racism there it is there it is you're [TS]

  gonna think so Dave weakling but back to [TS]

  see ya later on and I'm talking about [TS]

  2002 my good friend the Mike Squires [TS]

  that we talk about periodically Mike [TS]

  Henson remarks recent let's uh you know [TS]

  he's a piece of problematic figure oh [TS]

  did he have remarks recently what did [TS]

  Mike Squires have to say I mean look it [TS]

  up from the internet [TS]

  Mike squares has got a lot to say [TS]

  because Mike is too dumb to know it has [TS]

  to say here's what happened I was at [TS]

  Mike's house in in Portland Oregon I [TS]

  don't know why I probably ran out of gas [TS]

  or something and then he was the only [TS]

  guy I knew nearby that had a car I was [TS]

  there you know Mike has a incredible [TS]

  vinyl collection that he curates and it [TS]

  is it is really formidable this [TS]

  collection of vinyl and it's the hairs [TS]

  he cares and he put on Tears for Fears [TS]

  the hurting and he said hey dummy this [TS]

  is a great album and I said yeah yeah [TS]

  right I don't like them and he said shut [TS]

  up and listen and he played it and it's [TS]

  undeniable a classic pop album they're [TS]

  really really good songs and the [TS]

  performance is very distinctive the [TS]

  musicianship is very high and and as I [TS]

  listened to the record I had gradually [TS]

  their frowny faces their dumb British [TS]

  frowny faces went out of my head [TS]

  and was replaced by this in who you know [TS]

  like what ended up being an incredible [TS]

  appreciation of them so now you know it [TS]

  was a late in life like epiphany and now [TS]

  I feel like oh I should have liked them [TS]

  all along I like them now a lot I when [TS]

  their music comes on I'm always excited [TS]

  and it was because that big you know Oh [TS]

  Mike Squires right it had to give me an [TS]

  education which I didn't like getting [TS]

  from him of all people [TS]

  oh it's kind of a double for you served [TS]

  he's given me he served me a bunch of [TS]

  times that's one of the reasons that one [TS]

  of the reasons history will record him [TS]

  as history's greatest English [TS]

  skree politi another one what was that [TS]

  there's another band what's the one I'm [TS]

  thinking of that got better every album [TS]

  they had like a screenplay was good but [TS]

  then there was the one that was the band [TS]

  that like had an 80's hit that we all [TS]

  kind of go ha ha ha 80s hit but then [TS]

  they have like better album after better [TS]

  album in the late eighties and early 90s [TS]

  some space not right now but you know [TS]

  it's funny it's like a sweep up right [TS]

  you get some innocent civilians get get [TS]

  swept up in the dragnet and I think [TS]

  that's the case I mean we've all [TS]

  certainly written off certain songs or [TS]

  bands because you go oh it's that thing [TS]

  and I think that I think that happened [TS]

  with them well then you know it happened [TS]

  with Tears for Fears but also songs from [TS]

  the big chair really got the singles [TS]

  from that got really overplayed to where [TS]

  I would dread hearing the beginning of [TS]

  everybody wants to rule the world yeah [TS]

  absolutely although there were singles [TS]

  from that era that got over over [TS]

  overplayed that I never got tired of so [TS]

  there was something to that everybody [TS]

  wants to rule the world that I still [TS]

  have a trouble I still have trouble [TS]

  listening to that song it was just like [TS]

  jam down my throat if the rides was such [TS]

  a prom theme you know it was just like [TS]

  prom where as I will listen to that Don [TS]

  Henley song about the about Central [TS]

  America whatever the fuck that was don't [TS]

  know freaks oh sure right right right [TS]

  it was to do is dance I [TS]

  Nevada all day and that was on the radio [TS]

  constantly and that is a pie all you [TS]

  know by all standards pretty bad but I [TS]

  when that comes on I'm like yeah alright [TS]

  I'll take it oh sorry yeah thought [TS]

  technology in your direction I I don't I [TS]

  don't want or need an answer now but [TS]

  it's something I've just been thinking [TS]

  about in the back of my mind for a while [TS]

  especially since we've done this show [TS]

  and talk so much about cocaine in music [TS]

  you don't have to answer this now but I [TS]

  wonder if you were to cast your mind [TS]

  back over the years without knowing [TS]

  specifics necessarily do you how much do [TS]

  you think you would be able to go back [TS]

  and identify what songs are fairly [TS]

  legitimate zeitgeist hits which songs [TS]

  got pretty puffed up because of the way [TS]

  songs were recorded before SoundScan [TS]

  would you be able to identify which [TS]

  songs aren't were so improbably popular [TS]

  because of paola or similar do you think [TS]

  you could do that would you be able to [TS]

  go back and go oh that's why that's why [TS]

  starship was so popular in improbable [TS]

  because of cocaine you're saying well I [TS]

  mean on the one hand okay so I'm trying [TS]

  to get out these these three axes we're [TS]

  like on the one hand there's like you [TS]

  take a song like what sugar sugar by the [TS]

  Archies like that's a legitimately [TS]

  catchy pop song and you can understand [TS]

  why that would be a really popular song [TS]

  yeah there are others where I mean this [TS]

  the story has been told many times when [TS]

  they flip the switch to SoundScan a lot [TS]

  of stuff changed because I'm not telling [TS]

  you this I'm telling anybody our [TS]

  audience and you correct me if I'm wrong [TS]

  but basically it used to be like pretty [TS]

  much reporting and self reporting there [TS]

  was a number of Records shipped and then [TS]

  they will call around and you call the [TS]

  record store frequently the record store [TS]

  would say oh yeah you know what's [TS]

  popular this one album we have way too [TS]

  many copies of and need to move right so [TS]

  maybe this on the second level you got [TS]

  the dicey recording in the sound scam [TS]

  basically brought in this idea of like [TS]

  okay here's the reports on what people [TS]

  actually bought with money in a record [TS]

  store this week which was revolutionary [TS]

  because what do we discover hey people [TS]

  like hip hop and people like country and [TS]

  country owned the charts for years after [TS]

  that [TS]

  once they change the way was the codecs [TS]

  measured everything like hip up to right [TS]

  hip hop took over from there absolutely [TS]

  well Ian like I think it probably helped [TS]

  a lot to realize wow this stuff actually [TS]

  is really selling very well [TS]

  and it's getting at that point we're [TS]

  seeing a little poppier but I mean I [TS]

  wonder I just sometimes wonder like you [TS]

  know just a little bit little bit Alex [TS]

  Jones conspiracy theory stuff here but [TS]

  like I wonder like if with that [TS]

  particular lens if you think you could [TS]

  go back and go like oh that explains why [TS]

  we heard so much like Def Leppard I [TS]

  don't like that flip I you know I'm [TS]

  sorry I don't like post photograph Def [TS]

  Leppard's so much but I understand why [TS]

  they're popular it was like you know it [TS]

  was poppy you know uh that one guy [TS]

  Shania Twain's ex you know that God [TS]

  needs a pop you know I'm saying though [TS]

  do you think you could go back would you [TS]

  be able to eyeball it and know which [TS]

  ones were pretty much straight up like [TS]

  here's some cocaine play this album I [TS]

  feel I feel like the others the other [TS]

  thing in there is that again because it [TS]

  was hard to know whose culture we will [TS]

  we were dealing with at that time [TS]

  because the baby boomers like do you [TS]

  remember the tape TV show 30-something [TS]

  right the baby boomers were in their [TS]

  mid-30s which now we think of because [TS]

  you and I are in our 40s or you know [TS]

  around our 40s you know we look at 34 [TS]

  year olds and say I mean 34 you're just [TS]

  like getting started you're just a child [TS]

  you're only just getting normal right [TS]

  now come on [TS]

  34 like finally you're kicking into gear [TS]

  right when you're 29 you think you know [TS]

  anything but by 34 you're like okay yeah [TS]

  and at the time right we were teenagers [TS]

  third polls seemed like they were you [TS]

  know they like might as well give up I [TS]

  mean you're already you've already [TS]

  transitioned to irrelevant adulthood but [TS]

  that was the baby boomers then and they [TS]

  were still they were so much larger a [TS]

  generation than we were that they were [TS]

  still shoving heard it through the [TS]

  grapevine down our throats right and and [TS]

  they were still out like a predominant [TS]

  market force well and they were the most [TS]

  self-congratulatory generation of all [TS]

  time and the most like self you know [TS]

  just like soaking in [TS]

  their own their own at what turns out to [TS]

  be fairly recent past and so what you [TS]

  have is which job is Jefferson Airplane [TS]

  turning into Jefferson Starship who [TS]

  actually had a couple of pretty good [TS]

  hits in the late seventies yes you know [TS]

  pretty good rock songs and then they [TS]

  switch over to Jefferson or they'd [TS]

  switch over to starship right and they [TS]

  get two or three - I think just gimme [TS]

  hits where it's like they've earned it [TS]

  somehow they are in the in that oral [TS]

  history of we built the city Grace Jones [TS]

  it basically said like I would make some [TS]

  money like I want to recount what are [TS]

  you able to retire whatever it takes I [TS]

  would like a giant giant hit please and [TS]

  thank you and so and what they had then [TS]

  was the pre SoundScan they had the [TS]

  goodwill and the relationships with the [TS]

  music business people who again were all [TS]

  like pre 40 years old and they could [TS]

  just say here's our new record make it a [TS]

  hit and they're A&R and they're then the [TS]

  president of the record company had [TS]

  probably made his bones to Jefferson [TS]

  Airplane and it was and you know you [TS]

  look at that 80's heart record where [TS]

  heart was like incredible band [TS]

  throughout the 70s is so good in the 80s [TS]

  it was just like what are you doing stop [TS]

  please don't do that [TS]

  and I love those girls and I know you [TS]

  know I'm really good friends with one of [TS]

  the women that that co-wrote some of [TS]

  their songs who's a Seattle a luminary [TS]

  and and grammy-winning artist and Linda [TS]

  what's week one of my favorite no no no [TS]

  not not Linda what's her name okay she [TS]

  didn't write she didn't co-write like [TS]

  the big seventies hits but she she was a [TS]

  she was a friend and a co-writer with [TS]

  them but during the era that [TS]

  those those those mid-80s to talk about [TS]

  like these dreams yeah it was just like [TS]

  a knife in my heart yeah no pun intended [TS]

  and then you get then you get all the [TS]

  members of the Eagles and all the [TS]

  members of Genesis and all the members [TS]

  of you know and you get the Rolling [TS]

  Stones solo records and it was just like [TS]

  payday for all these people that had [TS]

  that had made you know made their [TS]

  epaulettes throughout the 70s that they [TS]

  were still in charge of the culture [TS]

  there wasn't anything there were no [TS]

  upstarts right and punk rock was kept [TS]

  out for the most part I mean new wave [TS]

  was was gathered together and and made [TS]

  into and and like almost immediately [TS]

  defanged and turned into bubblegum music [TS]

  but that's what I account for that and I [TS]

  think cocaine is accessory to it because [TS]

  that whole generation also was was you [TS]

  know like had the incredible bad cocaine [TS]

  judgment think about the Eric Clapton [TS]

  hits of the eighties and then that weird [TS]

  eighties blues revival with BB King [TS]

  suddenly being a huge star and Robert [TS]

  Cray and you got the Stevie Ray Vaughan [TS]

  circa 85 [TS]

  yeah and Stevie Ray is just he's just [TS]

  playing Texas Hendrix [TS]

  those are good albums in their killer [TS]

  albums yeah killer who's rockin ZZ Top [TS]

  you get you from your buddies in ZZ Top [TS]

  kind of like we can't we can't talk shit [TS]

  about southern rock oh no no I'm not [TS]

  talking shit about any of these people [TS]

  in that case but no you're right but [TS]

  like yeah Clapton had the he did that [TS]

  new version the slow version of after [TS]

  midnight he did what was this other big [TS]

  stuff you're right though yeah you're [TS]

  right you're right those inner everybody [TS]

  was not cashing in is the wrong word cuz [TS]

  doesn't totally [TS]

  caPSURE it it was more like it was like [TS]

  some credibility bond had matured and [TS]

  they were apart like a lots of people [TS]

  were cashing in bits of their [TS]

  credibility bond at that point do you [TS]

  know what I mean [TS]

  and yeah absolutely and one of the one [TS]

  of the ones that I would make an [TS]

  exception for is permanent vacation by [TS]

  Aerosmith which was Aerosmith's comeback [TS]

  longest run DMC [TS]

  mmm-hmm like Run DMC pulled Aerosmith [TS]

  out of the trash bin of history weren't [TS]

  amazing what an amazing how did this [TS]

  ever happen story when you really think [TS]

  about it well yeah and it just and I run [TS]

  DMC gave us such an education in the [TS]

  early days in history of hip hop by [TS]

  doing that just like this is how we did [TS]

  it we took these records that have these [TS]

  cool breaks like oh no no no no no no [TS]

  and we just looped them and wrapped over [TS]

  them so that's how it started so anyway [TS]

  thanks a lot we're gonna give this [TS]

  little like we're gonna throw this bone [TS]

  to Aerosmith who have been I mean [TS]

  there's a there's a great story in that [TS]

  Aerosmith autobiography of Joey Wanaka [TS]

  or whatever where he's driving his [TS]

  Ferrari on the highway on like you know [TS]

  interstate 95 or something like that and [TS]

  and he's just like so drugged out he's [TS]

  not paying attention and a semi truck [TS]

  stops on the highway in front of him and [TS]

  he just drives the Ferrari right up [TS]

  underneath that's right up underneath [TS]

  the semi I guess he has time that's time [TS]

  to duck and there was some scene in the [TS]

  in the recording studio with those guys [TS]

  where where somebody was shooting a [TS]

  crossbow like in the studio I mean those [TS]

  guys should have there's not a single [TS]

  member of Aerosmith that should be alive [TS]

  and then they came out with that with [TS]

  permanent vacation which although it [TS]

  features the garbage track dudes look [TS]

  dude looks like a lady mm-hmm it was it [TS]

  was a killer record it had killer tunes [TS]

  on it is that is that also like the [TS]

  beginning of the Alicia Silverstone [TS]

  videos era that came that came later you [TS]

  know permanent vacation was the was the [TS]

  tour that Guns and Roses Oak [TS]

  for Aerosmith really I think also it [TS]

  didn't didn't that Linda what's your [TS]

  name right some of those primitive [TS]

  vacation to her name its anon blonde [TS]

  lady right didn't she write no that has [TS]

  that has to be later hmm [TS]

  poor not Blanc he came later okay so you [TS]

  got hard time dude looks like a lady [TS]

  ragdoll 1989 you got pump like the [TS]

  trucks having intercourse look at that [TS]

  yeah lava and I when pump came out and [TS]

  I'd been a permanent vacation fan I [TS]

  remember walking down the streets of [TS]

  some little town and there was a record [TS]

  store and prominently featured in the [TS]

  window was the record cover of pump [TS]

  their new album which they had raced out [TS]

  you know pretty pretty quickly after [TS]

  permanent vacation and I felt that weird [TS]

  feeling of like we're feeling you used [TS]

  to get in Europe when you would see [TS]

  something American and feel a kinship [TS]

  with it immediately because you know [TS]

  Europe European still had mostly [TS]

  positive feelings about America and [TS]

  there would be something in the window [TS]

  of a shop that was like the new record [TS]

  from American band Aerosmith and I was [TS]

  like that's right that's right [TS]

  how you like how you like us now [TS]

  Frenchie's yeah listen to Aerosmith I [TS]

  bet I don't know I'm not saying I could [TS]

  pick it out but you know it's just it's [TS]

  another data point is all I'm saying [TS]

  it's a very confusing time and I I think [TS]

  we might be too close to it to to [TS]

  properly analyze it because every time [TS]

  you think you've got the 80s by by the [TS]

  nose then you know then somebody throws [TS]

  out some new thing where it's like oh [TS]

  well what do you have to say about [TS]

  Metallica mmm-hmm and then you're like [TS]

  ah fuck what it Metallica how does that [TS]

  where does that fit into anything that [TS]

  first the first suit you know [TS]

  like ride the lightning how do you how [TS]

  do you account for that so it's um yeah [TS]

  it's it's a little bit of a what was [TS]

  that what was it what was that ban I'm [TS]

  trying to remember the ban the very late [TS]

  eighties band where the singer was so [TS]

  Cokie just frenetic high-energy dancey [TS]

  music and the singer had like colored [TS]

  dreads that were he was a white guy [TS]

  colored dreads piled up on top of his [TS]

  head and he was dancing around just [TS]

  flailing waving his arms it was the [TS]

  beginning of that era where music videos [TS]

  happened on a completely white [TS]

  background music that would become like [TS]

  yeah unbelievable [TS]

  like would become that kind of music [TS]

  yeah that stuff were pre delight mmm [TS]

  like dance music but but done as though [TS]

  it's rock it's not Jamiroquai that's [TS]

  later on no that's later on big hat [TS]

  music there was that video of a band [TS]

  like maybe they even had two hits or he [TS]

  had two heads it was a guy that wore his [TS]

  hat down over his face and you could [TS]

  never see his face cuz he had his hat [TS]

  down over his eyes it was a type of [TS]

  thing and and the the cover of his [TS]

  record was just the bottom of his tennis [TS]

  shoes you could kind of see him in the [TS]

  background there's a lot of this stuff [TS]

  it really appeals to the English like an [TS]

  English pop music fan the the small [TS]

  device of like this guy wears his hat [TS]

  down over his eyes and it's like he's [TS]

  the hit of the summer like how does the [TS]

  British pop market like understand [TS]

  itself how can you look yourself in [TS]

  these it selves in the eye with the [TS]

  chain saw [TS]

  what was that remember the band with the [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  guy would play chainsaws v Bend with a [TS]

  chainsaw hmm what was that what was that [TS]

  band what band with chain saw don't [TS]

  overthink no my eye [TS]

  Kyl Jekyll you wonder are they Christian [TS]

  Wow yes [TS]

  the this my friend here in Seattle who [TS]

  co-wrote heart songs did not write the [TS]

  the early 70s once but did I'm now [TS]

  researching did co-write straight on [TS]

  coming straight up to you yeah right [TS]

  even it up these are killer man killer [TS]

  late seventies heart tunes right you [TS]

  want to think it's all Barracuda but [TS]

  then you like heart kept it comin [TS]

  yeah and then dog and butterfly which [TS]

  was a song that that Ken Stringfellow [TS]

  and I covered on the Ken Stringfellow [TS]

  tour where the long winters were his [TS]

  backing band oh I was I was at that yeah [TS]

  so I don't know if I mentioned that to [TS]

  you you met Scott Miller that man I find [TS]

  ever mentioned it to you [TS]

  right right so so there were there were [TS]

  several phases of heart the several [TS]

  phases of heart but oh the 80s heart and [TS]

  then you know then heart brought it back [TS]

  of course by by the grunge era like they [TS]

  I think I think heart saw themselves or [TS]

  they saw grunge in themselves not least [TS]

  because Cameron Crowe made the it the [TS]

  Nancy Wilson like crossover but yeah so [TS]

  she's doing soundtracks and songs for [TS]

  his films a lot right mmm that is a [TS]

  thing that is a thing that is a thing [TS]

  yeah no I'm not criticizing I'm just [TS]

  saying no no no I [TS]

  if I could do soundtracks for Cameron [TS]

  Crowe films I would I heard I heard that [TS]

  and you know when you think about it [TS]

  like Ann Wilson was 30 years old in 1990 [TS]

  what is that right [TS]

  no she's gotta be older than that Oh 40 [TS]

  years old 40 years old but still yeah I [TS]

  mean 46 young kids good deal older than [TS]

  Cameron right well that I was talk about [TS]

  and I'm you know I'm lost [TS]

  I'm looking at the Internet which makes [TS]

  for a great podcast well uh I heard [TS]

  through the grapevine that Cameron Crowe [TS]

  was a fan of a long winter oh I feel [TS]

  like you might have mentioned this you [TS]

  were waiting for a call for a long time [TS]

  weren't you have this is one of these [TS]

  grapevine situations where you're like [TS]

  how do I verify that right who do I call [TS]

  to say hey I hear you yeah you you know [TS]

  him like one time one time we played in [TS]

  New York City and and after the show [TS]

  somebody said oh AC Newman was here I [TS]

  was like AC Newman was that a long [TS]

  winter show oh yeah yeah it's great yeah [TS]

  you know big fan of the band big fan and [TS]

  so then I'm like oh shit AC Newman's a [TS]

  big fan of the band yeah that's a big [TS]

  deal I mean I mean you're like you know [TS]

  it's like it's got Miller type situation [TS]

  like when there's somebody who's like [TS]

  you're special like you know don't be [TS]

  creepy about it but like you know Zuppa [TS]

  know and New Pornographers were like man [TS]

  that was that was my jam yeah sure I [TS]

  mean he's one of the great pop song [TS]

  writers of our race he's got that kind [TS]

  of like at least maybe less so now that [TS]

  you know they've kind of the people know [TS]

  them and stuff but like or like Ted Leo [TS]

  frig's it for that matter where it's [TS]

  tough we were like no but like that's my [TS]

  special secret band and like to even the [TS]

  inkling that they might even know who [TS]

  you are such a big deal that's so [TS]

  exciting [TS]

  well and so every time I would see him [TS]

  at like festivals or something like that [TS]

  I would kind of roll up on him he's not [TS]

  a reason I roll up kind of guy [TS]

  what's up how's it going car going [TS]

  through it perverted guys super you know [TS]

  we'd always have a super smile on his [TS]

  face but I'd be like remember me if you [TS]

  were at our show you were at our show [TS]

  yeah he was always really friendly and [TS]

  we had we used to have fun on the [TS]

  internet together but you know but I [TS]

  definitely like feel like I kind of was [TS]

  so glad that he was at that chair [TS]

  question John if there should be a way [TS]

  to ask like you know and this hasn't [TS]

  gotten you past though means so many of [TS]

  both of us got it's best so many all the [TS]

  great shows and moments there should be [TS]

  some kind of a code where we just go [TS]

  wrong idea who I am like really awkward [TS]

  four four four six minutes to 14 years [TS]

  well this was always my thing with Doug [TS]

  Marsh I would roll up on him at every [TS]

  single event and Doug Marsh's as [TS]

  introverted as a fucking clam I didn't [TS]

  know oh yeah open to show a little bit [TS]

  and you're like hello and he squirts [TS]

  saltwater slams shut and I'd be like hi [TS]

  it's me again John Roderick and I'm not [TS]

  even gonna try the you know if I'm [TS]

  standing next to him at a buffet [TS]

  backstage somewhere and he takes a [TS]

  strawberry maybe I'll take a strawberry [TS]

  but I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna be [TS]

  like hey look at us - strawberry loving [TS]

  guys [TS]

  the Cameron Crowe thing I actually went [TS]

  to my people various people publicist [TS]

  agent you know and I was like hey the [TS]

  word on the street and I cannot tell you [TS]

  where this word came from at the time I [TS]

  probably could have [TS]

  now I have no recollection but Cameron [TS]

  Crowe is a fan of the long winter so you [TS]

  guys do your job and figure out how to [TS]

  get cameron crowe to do something where [TS]

  he loves me publicly and you know my [TS]

  people were just like huh [TS]

  what yeah I don't you know we don't have [TS]

  his phone number and it's really a big [TS]

  workflow for this particular kind of [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah just like I'll call his people Hey [TS]

  hi this is Joe publicist can you can [TS]

  find out from Cameron if he's ever heard [TS]

  of John Roderick just don't don't make a [TS]

  big deal out of it yeah do you like me [TS]

  yes or no check one exactly and you know [TS]

  the it still is possible that one day [TS]

  he'll make one of those classic Cameron [TS]

  Crowe films and there will be a long [TS]

  winter song in it and I'll be like [TS]

  validated mm-hmm life validation the the [TS]

  song lumberjack was released by jackal [TS]

  JC k yl in 1991 here's some the lyrics I [TS]

  was born in the backwoods of a two-bit [TS]

  nowhere town fathered up some rock and [TS]

  roll baby so your mothers could boogie [TS]

  down [TS]

  I ain't whistling Dixie no I'm a rebel [TS]

  with a groove all the way from the world [TS]

  they go round and round when they dig on [TS]

  my new stainless steel sound wait a [TS]

  minute was that a rat reference was that [TS]

  a little like tap a little rat reference [TS]

  there they go rap baby I'm a lumberjack [TS]

  baby I'm gonna cut you down to size I'm [TS]

  a lumberjack baby and you're the one [TS]

  that gets my prize when you hear my [TS]

  motor running you know I surely be cup [TS]

  and a rise so I'm gonna crank it up and [TS]

  cut it down no no none of them I have an [TS]

  interesting story about that the jackals [TS]

  the lumberjack okay yeah which is I was [TS]

  so I took my daughter to a choir class [TS]

  which is like little girl little girl [TS]

  choir apparently at the level of choir [TS]

  the genders are really separated still [TS]

  because there is girl choir and I have [TS]

  no idea where there is whether there is [TS]

  boy choir because I have a little girl [TS]

  and you are not given access to boy [TS]

  choir and there are no boys at all at [TS]

  girl choir okay not only know little [TS]

  boys but also there are no boys in the [TS]

  form of adult people's waiting in the [TS]

  hall even it's like a very mom daughter [TS]

  kind of situation they got a whole [TS]

  separate building if there is a boy [TS]

  choir it ain't in here I don't know [TS]

  where they are and I don't know where [TS]

  their concerts are I have no idea [TS]

  whether they even exist to check out it [TS]

  but I said you know I said I have a [TS]

  little girl I want her to go to choir [TS]

  obviously for obvious reasons I went to [TS]

  choir and choir is important and so so [TS]

  I'm the dad at choir who's standing in [TS]

  the hall listening to them you know sing [TS]

  the ABC song because they're little [TS]

  girls and they've you know that not a [TS]

  single one of them can carry a tune and [TS]

  so I'm out in the hall and I'm talking [TS]

  to the other moms and we're you know [TS]

  talking mom stuff and the choir the [TS]

  little girl choir that's happening is [TS]

  happening in one of what we would [TS]

  describe as Seattle's more affluent yet [TS]

  still downtown neighborhoods okay [TS]

  it's not one of the affluent [TS]

  neighborhoods where people have moved [TS]

  out to the suburbs and have just abandon [TS]

  all hope [TS]

  it's the downtown neighborhood where [TS]

  people are buying 1902 houses with eight [TS]

  bedrooms in them and God knows what [TS]

  doing what with them why there are two [TS]

  two bedrooms that are just full of junky [TS]

  kids toys because nobody needs an eight [TS]

  bedroom house to get a gift-wrapping [TS]

  room you get a mudroom yeah that's right [TS]

  this is my office and that's daddy's [TS]

  office and never come into my office you [TS]

  can come into my house but not my den [TS]

  right exactly don't go into Daddy's [TS]

  library and it's because one or both of [TS]

  them work at either Microsoft or Amazon [TS]

  maybe Starbucks and they just have more [TS]

  money than they know what to do with and [TS]

  they but they want to retain their [TS]

  downtown miss so they buy a house in [TS]

  anyway so I'm talking and there are a [TS]

  lot of people like that that meet that [TS]

  criteria at the playground that's around [TS]

  my daughter's school because the the [TS]

  school in the neighborhood where my [TS]

  daughter school is it either the people [TS]

  that live there are either University of [TS]

  Washington professors and it's the class [TS]

  it's the traditional neighborhood of [TS]

  that or people that that have a very [TS]

  short commute to the Microsoft campus [TS]

  but still live in town anyway so I'm [TS]

  talking to the moms [TS]

  talking to the moms [TS]

  and one of them says you know one of [TS]

  them kind of has this like East Coast [TS]

  accent and we get talking and she's like [TS]

  well yeah you know I moved out here you [TS]

  know sort of in the 90s and you know and [TS]

  now we live in this big house and I kind [TS]

  of you know got this little girl a mom a [TS]

  mom ended up and I'm like I'm mom ended [TS]

  up too and I was here in the early [TS]

  nineties like did you move here for [TS]

  grunge and she said grunge yeah I hated [TS]

  grunge I was like you hated grunge you [TS]

  and I are the same age fish and you were [TS]

  in Seattle in 1991 what the hell were [TS]

  you doing here mm-hmm [TS]

  we didn't allow 22 year olds to come [TS]

  here who hated grunge why would you come [TS]

  here and she her face lit up and she [TS]

  said I was I'm from Philly and I was [TS]

  part of the New Jersey hair metal scene [TS]

  of the late 80s and I was like say what [TS]

  and I pulled up a like a church pew and [TS]

  you know and she's not rocking any of [TS]

  that now she's rocking like she's [TS]

  rocking yeah hella fide rich mom thing [TS]

  and she but all of a sudden her face is [TS]

  transformed and she was like you know [TS]

  like I was a high school dropout from my [TS]

  inner-city Philly neighborhood and we [TS]

  would go over to to Trenton and then [TS]

  eventually like I hooked up with the [TS]

  guys and warrant or whatever I think [TS]

  like she listed all these bands and I [TS]

  recognized them all but it was my occur [TS]

  to you that you that these bands sold [TS]

  millions of albums and probably there [TS]

  were hundreds of people doing what she [TS]

  did oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah and but all [TS]

  of a sudden I'm looking at her and I'm [TS]

  just like it's one of those things where [TS]

  you look at it you look at kind of a [TS]

  a holographic overlay of some historic [TS]

  you look at the thing and then you look [TS]

  at the holographic overlay of it you're [TS]

  like holy shit that's what before they [TS]

  tore all the buildings down and I see [TS]

  her with hair this poodle hair that's [TS]

  like foot and a half high and spandex [TS]

  and like hanging out with these these [TS]

  guys with the pointy guitars and I was [TS]

  like Jesus Christ I need to know all [TS]

  about this yes and she said I you know I [TS]

  was part of that scene and we were [TS]

  hardcore she's rocking cigarette warrant [TS]

  that's a name I haven't heard yet right [TS]

  and all of a sudden heard like the her [TS]

  heels get spiky ear and she and she's [TS]

  smoking more and we're talking about the [TS]

  time you know that we're we're talking [TS]

  about like Bon Jovi era but it's just [TS]

  lightly post Bon Jovi's big fame when [TS]

  everybody in New Jersey was a was a [TS]

  poodle poodle metal guy mm-hmm [TS]

  and she says we lived we lived this [TS]

  incredible life it was a fantastic [TS]

  moment in in history from 85 to 90 and I [TS]

  was tending bar and I you know I didn't [TS]

  even I hadn't even graduated from high [TS]

  school and we were playing metal and we [TS]

  were partying and then grunge I was it's [TS]

  like wait wait wait this is where my [TS]

  story picks up ye let me make this [TS]

  connection let me feel this let me feel [TS]

  this moment let me feel your anger and [TS]

  frustration because I've only read about [TS]

  this in magazines you were there and had [TS]

  this was not LA Sunset Strip this was [TS]

  the other one [TS]

  the The Stone Pony in fucking like so [TS]

  like sewer killed New Jersey right and [TS]

  she said I realized that my life was a [TS]

  head was like a dead end and I went on a [TS]

  road trip to Princeton [TS]

  and you know met somebody in a record [TS]

  store and I was like how do you how do [TS]

  you guys how do what does one have to do [TS]

  in life to live in a place with trees [TS]

  and the person at Princeton was like [TS]

  well you go to college and then you can [TS]

  live where there are trees and she was [TS]

  like I had never seen a tree let alone a [TS]

  bunch of trees all together where it [TS]

  blocked the Sun and was shady and cool [TS]

  and she said she had this incredible [TS]

  moment where she where she said I'm [TS]

  gonna go to college [TS]

  and she did and she moved to Washington [TS]

  with her already feeling like she was [TS]

  too grown-up for for rock and roll Wow [TS]

  and like went to university became a [TS]

  computer person worked in computers [TS]

  retired like met her husband who had you [TS]

  know had gone to Cambridge or whatever [TS]

  and had 25 degrees in computer science [TS]

  and now they live in this beautiful home [TS]

  and her story was one of these stories [TS]

  that was just gonna walk past me on 15th [TS]

  Avenue I was gonna be up there looking [TS]

  for looking for a shade-grown coffee [TS]

  beverage that had been cold brewed [TS]

  somewhere and she was gonna be walking [TS]

  by with some bag of organic things on [TS]

  her way somewhere else and we would just [TS]

  be two ships passing in the night and I [TS]

  would see her and just be like oh what's [TS]

  up you know rich mom from the [TS]

  neighborhood and she would say like she [TS]

  would pass me and not even notice me [TS]

  because I just because I look like [TS]

  somebody that's delivering things and [TS]

  yet here it was like history in the [TS]

  making so I went over to her house and [TS]

  she pulled a photo album you're kidding [TS]

  dad no no no I rolled over and peered at [TS]

  the window it's me hi remember me from [TS]

  girls choir you've got really great [TS]

  furniture I like your hair like that no [TS]

  she was like come over and see my shit [TS]

  and so she pulls out this [TS]

  and it's like she's laying across the [TS]

  hood of a Camaro the whole time there [TS]

  are and warranty COO Carrillo or whoever [TS]

  standing there twirling drumsticks and [TS]

  it's just like what am I looking at this [TS]

  is something that I never never thought [TS]

  that I would I never thought that I [TS]

  would be like so close to in some ways [TS]

  what I regard as the enemy and so she's [TS]

  got a daughter [TS]

  approximately your daughter's age yeah [TS]

  so interesting yeah yeah and yeah right [TS]

  and she's she is like that this is all [TS]

  these these photo albums are like in the [TS]

  Attic [TS]

  this is her past that that she never [TS]

  talks about never gets to talk about [TS]

  both because I don't think anybody in [TS]

  her circles are interested and it's just [TS]

  not relevant it's not relevant to what [TS]

  she's doing now but I you know as soon [TS]

  as I dragged that church pew over and [TS]

  was like I sat down and I was like you [TS]

  tell me right now everything and she was [TS]

  like wow really and the more she talked [TS]

  the more I was like yes more more MORE [TS]

  tell me everything tell me about your [TS]

  culture tell me about your way and you [TS]

  know the streets of Philadelphia like [TS]

  this is all just stuff that exists in in [TS]

  a mythological context to me well it's [TS]

  like it's almost like it's something [TS]

  like Quadrophenia or I'm thinking of [TS]

  like that Twisted Sister documentary [TS]

  which is really surprisingly good and [TS]

  like you realize there's this entire [TS]

  like you know just cuz you haven't [TS]

  thought about her it's not your thing [TS]

  like one may not realize there was an [TS]

  incredibly rich and nuanced and like [TS]

  potentially very subtle subculture going [TS]

  around about this thing yeah well heavy [TS]

  metal parking lot is what it is right [TS]

  she was heavy metal parking lot and we [TS]

  watched that film oh my god as though it [TS]

  was a as though it was a message beamed [TS]

  from outer space that's what it felt [TS]

  like yeah yeah this is real that was it [TS]

  wasn't a rat concert it's a rat concert [TS]

  right no a goose priest [TS]

  oh of course Judas Priest what I think [TS]

  it was rad was right opening for them [TS]

  maybe maybe you know the first rock [TS]

  concert I ever saw [TS]

  was do with Dakin Wow [TS]

  and and I always put Dakin and wrap I [TS]

  feel like they were contemporaries and I [TS]

  feel like they were very much more New [TS]

  Jersey than they were LA although I may [TS]

  be wrong Browns was rockin I saw rat [TS]

  open for Billy Squier 1984 and that was [TS]

  with Billy Squier was that some emotions [TS]

  in motion era yeah that was pre-ripped [TS]

  no no I think it was that was I think he [TS]

  was rocking me tonight probably my [TS]

  girlfriend that was her her jam she [TS]

  really she was let me put it let me put [TS]

  it frankly she was very sexually [TS]

  attracted to play square and she liked [TS]

  she liked me dancing around in that [TS]

  video she liked it a lot I'm going here [TS]

  I'm going here to rat and I see that [TS]

  looking at rats looking just at the [TS]

  search records it appears that I have [TS]

  already clicked on rats Wikipedia entry [TS]

  recently enough that it's a different [TS]

  color George Lynx was George Lynch in [TS]

  doctor I know he's in Dakin was he in [TS]

  rat at one point well so here are the [TS]

  members of rat George and this is this [TS]

  is what makes me feel like it's a Jersey [TS]

  band [TS]

  hmm Carlos Cavazos warranty party me [TS]

  that's the one right warranty one I mean [TS]

  they all they're all part of we passed [TS]

  it does say they're from Los Angeles [TS]

  that's weird now that's got to be that's [TS]

  got to be a typo they should be from New [TS]

  Jersey well maybe when maybe they moved [TS]

  maybe they moved the origins of rat go [TS]

  back as far as 1973 in Hollywood so [TS]

  apparently they didn't move I think you [TS]

  where's the bandanna for professional [TS]

  reasons is that is it well isn't that [TS]

  true also of the guy from who's the guy [TS]

  that has a second career as a reality [TS]

  star with the long blonde hair and [TS]

  always wears a bond bandanna [TS]

  oh right there Bret Michaels a Bret Bret [TS]

  Michaels he's poison right yeah what's [TS]

  going on under that man Dawkins from LA [TS]

  to hmm [TS]

  Rodgers rocking rocking with Dakin mmm [TS]

  the guy the guy from Dakin [TS]

  george'll in Georgia and she had that he [TS]

  had the tips remember yeah and that was [TS]

  one of those like lower tier B grade [TS]

  metal guitar players that I still liked [TS]

  oh he was great Paris is burning [TS]

  breaking the chains that stuff was great [TS]

  when I went to see them he had a sticker [TS]

  on his guitar that said balls [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]