Hello Internet

H.I. #85: Another Person I've Never Heard Of


00:00:00   all right here we go It's Showtime in

00:00:04   kind of the feedback section I think two

00:00:06   things have been burning a hole in my

00:00:08   inbox and crashing the service at Reddit

00:00:11   oh yeah and the first of those would be

00:00:14   the continuing discussion about our use

00:00:16   of the term ambulance drivers for people

00:00:18   who drive ambulances whether they're

00:00:20   paramedics whether they're ambulance

00:00:21   drivers there are two things I've now

00:00:24   learned and it's not really going to

00:00:25   placate anyone the first is I now have a

00:00:28   better understanding as to why

00:00:29   paramedics were so upset by me

00:00:32   describing someone who drives an

00:00:33   ambulance as an ambulance driver and

00:00:35   that is I think people in like the

00:00:37   medical community like certain doctors

00:00:40   or surgeons or people who think they're

00:00:42   too cool for school use the term

00:00:45   ambulance drivers as an insult for

00:00:47   paramedics hmm it's like a way of

00:00:50   belittling them it's like a nickname

00:00:51   they give them to upset them so it's

00:00:53   like a diddly brought wind up okay

00:00:56   so saying look you he come the ambulance

00:00:58   drivers is what you say when that the

00:01:00   paramedics walk in the room so I can see

00:01:02   why that would be upsetting on the other

00:01:04   hand we've had a lot of feedback from

00:01:06   people all around the world talking

00:01:08   about various jurisdictions in which

00:01:11   there are bespoke ambulance drivers

00:01:14   there is a differentiation between

00:01:15   people who drive ambulances and people

00:01:19   who have the qualifications to actually

00:01:21   tend to people in times of medical need

00:01:24   so there are actually legitimate

00:01:26   ambulance drivers who are not paramedics

00:01:28   so that is a thing that exists cuz we

00:01:30   were speculating about that last time

00:01:31   like is that a thing very much so in

00:01:33   certain countries and in certain places

00:01:35   in other places it's not so much but

00:01:37   that definitely is a thing that is

00:01:39   interesting is very interesting I didn't

00:01:41   come across that because I felt like at

00:01:43   least from the feedback that I saw on

00:01:45   the reddit my takeaway from reading a

00:01:48   bunch of that stuff was wow there's a

00:01:50   lot of different degrees of what this

00:01:53   means people were describing in wherever

00:01:55   they worked how in terms of paramedics

00:01:58   it's like there's five different levels

00:02:00   of what the person is and what they're

00:02:02   qualified for and so once again like

00:02:04   with everything in the world I felt like

00:02:05   our discussion on ambulance drivers

00:02:08   stroke paramedics opens up a door to

00:02:11   another infinite world

00:02:13   of complexity and differentiation that

00:02:16   people are involved in so I felt frankly

00:02:18   overwhelmed with all of the detail and

00:02:20   differentiation of what is a paramedic

00:02:23   where in the world what exactly does

00:02:25   their job entail and how do you become

00:02:28   one of these people well if you found

00:02:30   that overwhelming how did you feel about

00:02:32   the feedback to the 51 star American

00:02:34   flag suggestions well I mean first we

00:02:37   must say that I don't know who did it

00:02:40   but at one point your design suggestion

00:02:45   for the 51 star flag was living on the

00:02:48   Wikipedia page for future suggested

00:02:51   versions of how the 51 star flag might

00:02:54   look and I feel like that was barely

00:02:57   Wikipedia vandalization at all I feel

00:02:59   like that's a legitimate proposal for

00:03:01   what could be a future 51 star flag

00:03:04   design so I was very happy to see that

00:03:06   make its way into the Wikipedia article

00:03:08   yeah I mean that list was all about

00:03:10   suggestions like from various people

00:03:12   who'd suggested them my favorite thing

00:03:14   there was a little caption that sort of

00:03:15   described how design proposed by Brady

00:03:18   Haran and executed by CGP grey like that

00:03:21   sort of play to that whole image that

00:03:23   I'd tried to create of me as like you

00:03:25   know the grand visionary at the top and

00:03:27   you is like the drone that just like

00:03:29   makes the stuff I was basically the

00:03:31   seamstress in this situation right

00:03:33   that's that's what was occurring there

00:03:35   ya know if that caption was perfect

00:03:37   great work for whoever did that so I

00:03:39   really enjoyed that but of course as

00:03:41   soon as you start showing something like

00:03:43   that to the internet everybody wanted to

00:03:45   jump in with their own version of the 51

00:03:48   star flag so we said we got a whole

00:03:50   bunch of interesting ones that were sent

00:03:52   along I tried to create a reddit thread

00:03:55   to capture them all together because I

00:03:57   always just loved seeing what people

00:03:59   make with this kind of stuff so I'll put

00:04:02   it in the show notes there's a link to a

00:04:04   reddit discussion which has just a ton

00:04:07   of the designs all together in one place

00:04:10   let me send a few of them along to you

00:04:12   right now Brady and see what you think

00:04:13   these ones that have your endorsement or

00:04:16   your condemnation I'm just passing along

00:04:19   a few that caught my eye

00:04:20   no comment of endorsements or anything

00:04:23   there say the first one Gray has sent to

00:04:25   me in the star section

00:04:27   has 51 stars arranged into the shape of

00:04:30   a star so it's like a star of stars and

00:04:32   it's a little bit on the silly side oh

00:04:35   you think that's silly oh you have more

00:04:37   stuff to cover okay but I thought it's

00:04:39   interesting to see that the 51 stars can

00:04:41   be arranged in a sense symmetrical

00:04:44   because it's five ways is there a word

00:04:46   for five way symmetry I feel like I

00:04:48   should know this fivefold symmetry that

00:04:50   sounds good

00:04:50   fivefold symmetry yeah I think you're

00:04:52   right there I think you're right so that

00:04:54   can be done it's not too bad there are a

00:04:57   few other versions of people trying to

00:05:00   arrange the stars in a somewhat orderly

00:05:03   pattern or at least pleasing so this one

00:05:07   you've sent in the star section has the

00:05:09   51 stars and they kind of arranged in

00:05:11   diagonal rows rather than the horizontal

00:05:13   rows that we're familiar with on the

00:05:15   current American flag and yeah it just

00:05:18   doesn't quite look right does it no it

00:05:19   doesn't quite look right those are two

00:05:21   sort of somewhat serious designs yeah

00:05:24   there's one that's a little bit jokey

00:05:25   but I actually kind of like it so I'll

00:05:27   send this next one along to you okay so

00:05:30   in this one what they've done is they've

00:05:32   taken sort of the top corner where the

00:05:35   stars live and instead they've made it

00:05:36   the whole left-hand side of the flag

00:05:39   like a vertical bar going down the whole

00:05:42   height of the flag and they've arranged

00:05:45   the stars in there the left-hand sixth

00:05:47   of the flag is a pile of stars and then

00:05:49   we have stripes all emanating from that

00:05:52   and do you know what it looks wrong

00:05:55   obviously because I'm so used to the US

00:05:56   flag but if that had been the u.s. flow

00:05:58   from day one I could easily look at that

00:06:00   and think oh yeah that's just how their

00:06:02   flag works I can see how that kind of

00:06:03   works yeah I like this one doing a

00:06:05   vertical banner on the left-hand side it

00:06:08   gives you enough space to arrange the 51

00:06:11   in a somewhat pleasing way I think it

00:06:13   looks good I think it looks good

00:06:14   because I feel like the 51 stars there's

00:06:17   just no good way to do it in the

00:06:21   existing format and so it's like maybe

00:06:23   this is time for America to think

00:06:25   outside the box if the flag is going to

00:06:28   change so we have a couple of other

00:06:29   thinking outside the box Options here

00:06:31   Brady okay what do we go he comes

00:06:34   another one why do 51 stars when instead

00:06:38   you could do 51 stripes

00:06:40   right say having 51 straps on a flag

00:06:43   results in the straps being so close

00:06:45   together that it looks almost just like

00:06:47   a big rectangle of pinkness yep 51 yeah

00:06:51   horizontal stripes with no stars just

00:06:54   stripes yeah no stars at all hmm this

00:06:56   next one very different thought on how

00:06:58   to arrange the 51 stars which I quite

00:07:01   like say here we've got the blue section

00:07:04   at the top and the 51 stars have been

00:07:06   arranged to write out the number 51

00:07:09   mm-hmm yeah I quite like that that's a

00:07:11   good contender yeah also okay our star

00:07:14   is necessary I think we have some other

00:07:16   options okay someone has put the lettuce

00:07:20   Li this is the Roman numeral version of

00:07:23   51 stars right which i think is great of

00:07:27   course we can also just talk about the

00:07:29   way America prefers to view herself says

00:07:32   someone has just put the number one

00:07:34   hashtag in the blue area instead of

00:07:37   stars at all yeah

00:07:38   we're number one that's America it's we

00:07:41   are we now that's let's just say with

00:07:45   romera we're number one my great

00:07:46   disappointment is now that you have

00:07:48   declared yourself the official US flag

00:07:50   seamstress of hello internet people

00:07:52   shouldn't even need to design flags they

00:07:54   should just write written descriptions

00:07:55   to you and then you knock it up for them

00:07:57   and you know quick 5-10 minutes I wish

00:08:00   them the best of luck with getting

00:08:01   results for that people know what's

00:08:03   gonna happen they know the results I

00:08:04   felt like you were at my beck and call

00:08:05   in the last episode when I was having

00:08:07   you do I was just like throwing ideas

00:08:09   out there and you were tapping away

00:08:11   churning them out you know Brady I like

00:08:13   to make your dreams a reality

00:08:14   so I was very happy to do that

00:08:16   immediately thank you you suggest I make

00:08:19   I say jump graces hi that's exactly

00:08:22   right that's that's how this

00:08:23   relationship works all right thank you

00:08:25   bedding flag designers at that you

00:08:27   certainly took over our subreddit every

00:08:29   time I went to the hello Internet

00:08:30   subreddit it was just like Star Spangled

00:08:33   Banner everywhere yeah there are

00:08:34   absolutely everywhere if you go to the

00:08:36   reddit link in the show notes there are

00:08:38   a whole lot more than just the ones that

00:08:41   I posted to Brady while we were

00:08:43   discussing it I think there's something

00:08:44   like 80 different takes on the flag and

00:08:46   some of them are hilarious so I highly

00:08:49   recommend you go check that out and see

00:08:52   alternate flag designs

00:08:54   the Tim's and gray will compile a list

00:08:56   of his 51 favorites I will not know that

00:08:59   what that happened so Brady I am

00:09:02   recently back from America

00:09:05   you were there forever I thought you

00:09:07   were never coming home I wasn't sure if

00:09:09   I was ever coming home

00:09:10   it wasn't intended to be that long I

00:09:12   wonder if your your accents like

00:09:13   American dup a bit more whenever I go to

00:09:15   Australia people say I sound more

00:09:17   Australian when I come home for the

00:09:18   first few weeks do people say you sound

00:09:20   more American when you come back you

00:09:22   couldn't say I'm more American actually

00:09:23   now I think about it do you think I

00:09:24   sound super American that is not

00:09:25   possible for me to sound more American

00:09:27   well I don't think you sound like tinged

00:09:29   by Britishness you do sound a bit tinged

00:09:31   by Britishness though Brady yeah but

00:09:33   when I go to Australia I recharge my

00:09:35   Aussie Nostromo is that how it works

00:09:37   you're running low on Oz eNOS and need

00:09:39   to charge back up every once in a while

00:09:41   it's not intentional it just happens

00:09:42   hang out with all my Aussie friends and

00:09:44   I get a bit more ocka ocka ocka is like

00:09:47   a it's an Australian thing saying you

00:09:49   sound Orko means you sound really Ozzy

00:09:50   oh it's probably incredibly racist and

00:09:52   I've just insulted a whole bunch of

00:09:54   people knowing the way the internet

00:09:56   works now but I'd better look it up if

00:09:59   you sound augur sounds Australian I

00:10:01   don't see what the problem would be

00:10:02   because you're Australian and then you

00:10:03   could say that okay it means a rough

00:10:05   uncultivated Australian man so a bit

00:10:08   more uncultivated is it's you know it's

00:10:10   a bit more rough around the edges slang

00:10:12   for a stereotypical Australian someone

00:10:14   with a strong accent who enjoys beer

00:10:16   barbecues Australian football v8 cars

00:10:18   behave cards that's a long story long

00:10:22   story of you and asking was trailing

00:10:24   about that kind of car yeah okay don't

00:10:26   stop me on Holden versus forward I'm a

00:10:28   hardened man for those who wandering

00:10:30   there oh okay there you go yes so I

00:10:35   don't think I'm sounding more American

00:10:37   having come back from America I don't

00:10:38   think the night of the case I'm sounding

00:10:40   just the regular way yeah but while I

00:10:42   was in America hmm I saw a thing Brady

00:10:45   that I've been dreading for a while

00:10:47   because a little while ago there was a

00:10:52   article talking about how uber is going

00:10:56   to introduce the much requested much

00:11:00   requested feature of tipping the drivers

00:11:04   in their app

00:11:06   saw this public relations thing that

00:11:09   uber is finally allowing riders to do

00:11:13   what they have long desired which is tip

00:11:15   their drivers I have some suspicions

00:11:17   about how much riders have actually

00:11:19   wanted that versus how much the drivers

00:11:20   want that but anyway I saw this thing I

00:11:24   had hoped in my heart of hearts that

00:11:25   maybe it wouldn't come to pass but sure

00:11:28   enough while I was in New York for the

00:11:31   first time I saw it I took an uber thing

00:11:35   popped up on my screen and it said I had

00:11:38   a tip for your driver with three buttons

00:11:41   on the bottom and an option to add an

00:11:44   even larger custom amount if you so want

00:11:47   to and honestly I feel like my heart

00:11:49   sank very deeply that day so great when

00:11:53   I get an uber and I get out of the car I

00:11:55   don't even look at my phone usually for

00:11:56   a cup or two later and then I see like

00:11:59   you know the opportunity to do the star

00:12:00   rating and everything is that when it

00:12:02   happens is that next time you look at

00:12:03   your phone so the driver could be long

00:12:05   gone

00:12:06   when you make this decision it has for

00:12:08   me shown up on the page where you would

00:12:12   normally give the driver the star rating

00:12:15   I'll send you a screenshots I'm the

00:12:17   first driver that I had who's asking for

00:12:20   the tip okay yeah but so when it bothers

00:12:21   you to give them the star rating you now

00:12:24   have this additional mental burden on

00:12:26   that page to decide if you want to give

00:12:29   them additional money on top of the

00:12:32   money that you have given them for the

00:12:34   commercial transaction the clear

00:12:35   commercial transaction that has happened

00:12:38   but you don't have to give a tip you do

00:12:39   not have to give a tip it's not required

00:12:41   I'm not overly worried about this as

00:12:44   long as it's not like a face-to-face

00:12:45   awkward situation I'm kind of like I've

00:12:49   always said I'm not opposed to tipping

00:12:50   it's just the awkwardness of the moment

00:12:52   and not having the money or how to give

00:12:54   it to them and that sort of thing mm-hmm

00:12:56   I mean if I was honest about that and I

00:12:59   think I was then I don't mind giving the

00:13:02   tip after the fact depending on the

00:13:04   level of service and how I feel about

00:13:05   how it went as long as I can do it like

00:13:07   in the comfort of my sofa two or three

00:13:09   hours later I'm alright with that what

00:13:11   are the scenarios under which you would

00:13:14   tip an uber driver I can imagine if they

00:13:17   say we would have a conversation and

00:13:19   they gave me

00:13:20   useful information you know oh hey I'm

00:13:23   new to town where's a good place to eat

00:13:24   and they suggested a really good

00:13:25   restaurant or they gave me some local

00:13:28   advice or I really enjoyed the

00:13:31   conversation maybe if the car was

00:13:33   exceptionally clean or maybe if they had

00:13:35   a couple of little goodies in there like

00:13:36   a lovely or something I could have I can

00:13:40   imagine scenarios that's really cute if

00:13:43   there's a lolly in the back for Brady

00:13:44   you might just give you a tip yeah I've

00:13:47   had Reba rides where it was something

00:13:48   really memorable I once had an uber

00:13:50   driver whose name he was from Ethiopia

00:13:52   and his name was millionaire that was

00:13:54   actually his first name and I said how

00:13:56   can I take a picture of you and like you

00:13:58   know social media playing around with it

00:13:59   and he was a really good sport and let

00:14:01   me do it so he's a guy I would happily

00:14:02   have tipped you know five bucks cause he

00:14:04   he was a good sport and played around so

00:14:07   I can see these things happening that's

00:14:09   very interesting well although I can see

00:14:10   immediately from your answer that of

00:14:12   course you have more scenarios under

00:14:14   which you might tip the driver because

00:14:15   you're interacting with the driver

00:14:16   whereas I have been thinking this entire

00:14:18   time like I can't even imagine why I

00:14:20   would give an uber driver a tip because

00:14:22   my ideal situation is I just we just get

00:14:25   in the car and I never really speak to

00:14:26   the driver and then I just get out yeah

00:14:28   I guess with me there is far less room

00:14:30   for the ability to give a tip in the

00:14:32   first place well then don't give a tip

00:14:34   but do they know can they penalize you

00:14:36   can they look later on and see who

00:14:38   tipped and then who didn't and affect

00:14:39   your star rankings with that information

00:14:41   I was always under the impression it

00:14:42   would be pulled at the end of the day

00:14:44   and they wouldn't know who didn't didn't

00:14:45   tip yeah that's my understanding is that

00:14:47   the drivers do not know this is the best

00:14:49   way to handle it like if they're going

00:14:51   to do it doing it this way like the

00:14:53   drivers don't know you can just do it

00:14:55   later this sort of fine for me there's

00:14:58   something about it being here that I

00:15:00   feel like it is sullied uber it has

00:15:01   taken this like clear commercial

00:15:04   transaction in my mind and has now moved

00:15:07   it into the world of somewhat ambiguous

00:15:10   interactions and transactions is the

00:15:13   best version of this that it could

00:15:14   possibly be but I'm still sad to see

00:15:17   that it's there

00:15:18   I'm not surprised it happened why do you

00:15:20   say that well I don't know how much you

00:15:23   follow the news no I do know how much

00:15:26   Father's Day Parade is you don't want to

00:15:28   know how much I follow the news but like

00:15:31   there's been a lot of in the UK in

00:15:33   particular but

00:15:34   elsewhere there's been a lot of

00:15:35   confrontation lately as sort of drivers

00:15:38   start to not unionize but get to a point

00:15:41   where they're starting to expect more

00:15:42   rights and they want to be treated as

00:15:44   employees and have that rights to

00:15:46   holidays and things like that which

00:15:48   again sort of goes against how uber has

00:15:50   always pitched itself but this is the

00:15:51   whole other debate that we shouldn't

00:15:52   wade into and while that's been going on

00:15:55   at the same time uber itself is bit of a

00:15:57   wounded ball at the moment because of

00:15:58   all the problems that its former boss

00:16:01   had been getting himself into and the

00:16:03   culture of the company so we've got a

00:16:04   situation where the drivers are sort of

00:16:06   on the ascendancy and starting to make

00:16:09   noise and the company at the top is kind

00:16:11   of in a perilous condition and weakened

00:16:14   so if there was ever a time where the

00:16:16   drivers we're gonna get their way and

00:16:18   start clawing back things they want now

00:16:21   is the time I think the question of

00:16:23   whether or not bird drivers are

00:16:24   employees like that feels like a perfect

00:16:25   thing that we could just argue about for

00:16:27   a little while it seems to me like well

00:16:28   they're clearly not but that of course

00:16:31   gets us straight to the whole question

00:16:32   of like the app economy which is a very

00:16:34   big different sort of thing

00:16:37   at least that's interesting that that's

00:16:38   why you feel like it's obvious that this

00:16:40   is going to happen because ubers in

00:16:42   trouble the drivers are collectivizing

00:16:45   it sounds like in some sense sober wants

00:16:47   to make them happy I guess I mean we've

00:16:49   got a culture where some people are

00:16:50   thinking drivers aren't being treated

00:16:52   well the company is getting this

00:16:53   increasing reputation for being mean

00:16:56   mm-hmm

00:16:56   like this is obviously a move that would

00:16:59   placate that somewhat so very

00:17:01   unsurprising so after I saw that driver

00:17:04   I was like ah here we are like now that

00:17:07   now this thing has arrived my immediate

00:17:09   next ride in New York in uber when the

00:17:13   screen came up to do the five star

00:17:15   rating it said that this driver does not

00:17:18   currently accept tips

00:17:20   and you know what I thought Brady I want

00:17:23   to give that man a tip I've never had

00:17:25   that feeling ever like boy I really want

00:17:27   to give someone a tip but when I saw

00:17:28   this one guy who didn't accept tips I

00:17:30   thought you were the only person maybe

00:17:32   in the entire history of the service

00:17:33   industry that I have felt like please I

00:17:35   would love to give you a tip for your

00:17:38   refusal to accept tips but of course he

00:17:40   had long driven away that wasn't a

00:17:42   possibility

00:17:43   I couldn't hand him cash in the car

00:17:44   because I didn't do the star rating

00:17:46   until later I was hoping you're gonna

00:17:47   say

00:17:48   you flicked him a cheeky Benjie flicked

00:17:50   him a cheeky Benji that's what I would

00:17:52   do baby but yes that's like I wish there

00:17:56   was some way that I could reward better

00:17:57   the drivers who don't accept the tips

00:17:59   and just tell who burr

00:18:01   please don't ever show me that tip

00:18:02   screen because there's not a situation

00:18:04   that I'm ever gonna actually want to

00:18:05   press those buttons it just makes me

00:18:07   feel a little guilty now every time that

00:18:09   the star rating comes up and I don't

00:18:11   actually press the tip button fair

00:18:13   enough

00:18:13   that's what tips are social gilts will

00:18:15   chop that up as a loss to gray in his

00:18:17   ongoing battle to have everything in the

00:18:19   world shaped to his liking it totally is

00:18:22   Brady like that's you know you're saying

00:18:23   that it's like a joke but I do feel like

00:18:25   this is a battle that I live every day

00:18:26   in many many different ways I'm not even

00:18:29   mildly taking this episode of Hello

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00:19:21   on my many travels this summer and

00:19:24   highly enjoyed if you've never heard of

00:19:26   the Silk Road before it was a web site

00:19:29   of sorts on the Deep Web that allowed

00:19:32   people using Bitcoin to buy and sell

00:19:35   anything and I had known of the

00:19:37   existence of this place but I had never

00:19:40   heard anything about the background of

00:19:42   the person who started it and what

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00:19:47   found the book a very very interesting

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00:20:31   I've been doing a bit of traveling

00:20:33   lately myself mm-hmm one of the places I

00:20:35   went was the US as well I saw you at

00:20:37   VidCon and lots of other people and well

00:20:40   it was all good for us to catch up

00:20:41   mm-hmm but one of the other things I did

00:20:43   while I was there in Anaheim was I went

00:20:45   to Disneyland for the first time in a

00:20:47   long time I went with our very good

00:20:49   friend Destin who had a great time

00:20:51   together but the thing I were used for

00:20:53   the first time was this so called

00:20:55   Fast Pass which is the system at

00:20:58   Disneyland that allows you to supposedly

00:21:00   get on rides more easily more quickly

00:21:03   and not spend all your day what I would

00:21:05   call queueing what Americans might call

00:21:07   standing in line yeah so you sent me a

00:21:09   photo of you and Destin in Disney as I

00:21:12   was making my way towards Anaheim and my

00:21:15   first thought of course was oh my god

00:21:17   you're a Disney in the height of the

00:21:20   summer I can't imagine ever doing

00:21:22   something like that and I sent you a

00:21:24   message immediately like I hope to god

00:21:25   you bought the Fast Pass or that

00:21:28   whatever the heck it's called yeah there

00:21:30   are additional ticketing system yeah

00:21:32   because in my mind this is a thing which

00:21:35   is almost like it feels anti fairness

00:21:41   but my understanding of this is that

00:21:43   it's an extra ticket that allows you to

00:21:45   go on like an executive line that's just

00:21:48   for the people who bought the Fast Pass

00:21:50   and so then you can then get to the

00:21:52   front of the line faster is that correct

00:21:55   well you like me have that completely

00:22:00   wrong it is nothing like that although I

00:22:02   thought the same I thought I could use

00:22:04   financial might to buy myself a golden

00:22:08   ticket that would allow me to walk past

00:22:10   everyone and get on the rides more

00:22:12   quickly and I was willing to do that I

00:22:14   was willing to sacrifice

00:22:15   my hard-earned money to buy back time of

00:22:19   course I was hopeful I could do that

00:22:21   that's how life works isn't it we spend

00:22:22   most of our life earning money so we can

00:22:24   buy time correct this is not how it

00:22:26   works

00:22:28   it couldn't be further from it okay I

00:22:30   don't know how to explain I'm going to

00:22:32   attempt to explain it I haven't really

00:22:33   thought about this that the logical way

00:22:35   to explain to you how it works but I

00:22:36   don't know whether I should just tell

00:22:38   you what it looks like on the surface or

00:22:40   what I later learned how it actually is

00:22:43   working probably the best thing to do is

00:22:44   tell you how it actually is working I'm

00:22:46   wondering because I haven't been to

00:22:49   Disney in a long time I've always

00:22:50   thought like if I'm going to Disney I'm

00:22:52   going in the offseason and I'm gonna buy

00:22:54   a Fastpass

00:22:55   there is no fast pass to buy alright so

00:22:57   I have this all wrong I don't even

00:22:59   understand what's occurring

00:23:00   okay got it you have this all wrong and

00:23:02   so did I and like this tonight when we

00:23:04   were buying our tickets we're like how

00:23:05   do we buy a first pass mister sounded

00:23:07   like idiots I now realize we did sound

00:23:09   like idiots and like the people were

00:23:11   saying wait till you get inside oh yeah

00:23:14   like you already know there's something

00:23:16   ominously wrong like they're just wait

00:23:18   till you get inside so wait till you get

00:23:19   inside you idiots so what happens is you

00:23:24   get a ticket to go into Disneyland it is

00:23:26   important you keep that ticket because

00:23:27   that ticket becomes very important and

00:23:29   what happens is at any given ride there

00:23:33   are two queues there were two lines

00:23:35   there is what I will call the slow line

00:23:39   which is for people without a fast bus

00:23:42   okay there's the first pass line right

00:23:45   now let's pretend it's the middle of the

00:23:48   day now and there are lots of people in

00:23:50   the park and there are lots of lines

00:23:51   everywhere what you can do is you can

00:23:54   join the slow line and you'll have a

00:23:57   long wait let's say an hour and a half

00:24:00   to get on the ride or what you can do is

00:24:04   you can scan your ticket to get a fast

00:24:07   pass for that particular ride and the

00:24:10   first pass can be used later on in the

00:24:14   day at a specified time so I would say

00:24:17   you can come back at between 3 and 4

00:24:20   o'clock this afternoon and join the fast

00:24:23   pass line

00:24:24   that's how it works and during that time

00:24:27   you can then move around the park and

00:24:29   join other slow lines but you can only

00:24:32   have one fast pass at a time you have to

00:24:36   be really strategic and it's linked to

00:24:38   your ticket so you can't like go around

00:24:41   all the rides and get a fast pass for

00:24:44   every single ride and have your day

00:24:45   planned out for the whole day that was

00:24:47   my immediate thought is you just run in

00:24:49   and grab all the fast passes no no no

00:24:51   you've got to be really strategic and

00:24:53   what I'm not talking about here is all

00:24:55   the ways you can obviously check the

00:24:56   system and I'm sure people in reddit an

00:24:58   email will say Oh Brady you should have

00:24:59   done this and you should have done that

00:25:00   and this is how you change did you not

00:25:01   go to Disneyland hacking com to figure

00:25:03   out your Fastpass strategy so I'm

00:25:06   talking about if you follow the rules

00:25:07   now this becomes really difficult later

00:25:11   in the day Destin and I learned because

00:25:14   there are couple arise we wanted to go

00:25:16   on and they were having like you know up

00:25:18   to two hours in the slow line but the

00:25:21   fast pass line was like three or four

00:25:23   hours in the future and you're having to

00:25:26   like do all this mental mathematics

00:25:28   you're thinking do I use my fasteners

00:25:30   for this ride and join the slow line for

00:25:33   that one which says it will be two and a

00:25:35   half hours adieu I joined the slow line

00:25:37   for that one and get the fast pass for

00:25:39   that one but I can't use my fast pass

00:25:41   for that one for two hours after that

00:25:42   and that means I'm not going to be able

00:25:44   to get another and like it becomes

00:25:46   really really difficult and once you've

00:25:48   got a first pass you're locked in you

00:25:49   can't like cancel it and say oh I made

00:25:52   them oh really yeah it's really

00:25:54   difficult and there's no like gold and

00:25:57   tickets or anything it's just like you

00:25:59   know it's always good to have a fast

00:26:00   pass because as Destin was always saying

00:26:03   it's good for us to have a fast pass

00:26:04   doing the work for us while we're

00:26:05   standing in slow lines I totally get

00:26:07   that yeah it feels like you have a

00:26:08   virtual robot standing in line for you

00:26:10   yeah and the way I believe it works

00:26:12   underneath the hood is Disney allocates

00:26:16   say a thousand fast passes every hour

00:26:20   for every ride so as people are chalking

00:26:24   up all these fast passes say you want to

00:26:25   go on the roller coaster right as people

00:26:29   were talking at the first passes they're

00:26:31   all disappearing so all the fast passes

00:26:33   between one and two are gone all the

00:26:34   fast passes between two and three ago

00:26:36   and all the fast passes between three

00:26:37   and four are gone

00:26:38   so very quickly that time that you can

00:26:40   use your first pass on the

00:26:41   roller-coaster is blowing right ahead

00:26:43   like into the evening right if you don't

00:26:46   get your first pass early you know you

00:26:47   could have four or five hours into it

00:26:49   you can use this fast pass and for that

00:26:50   four or five hours you're going to be

00:26:52   stuck in slow lines all that time you

00:26:54   can only stand in slow lines so it

00:26:57   becomes a real difficult decision I'm

00:26:59   sure there are apps on websites that

00:27:00   help you make such decisions we were

00:27:03   using the Disney app all the time but

00:27:04   I'm immediately feeling like you need

00:27:06   some kind of app to help you plan this

00:27:08   out okay I have a question I have a

00:27:09   question Brady hmm do you know ahead of

00:27:11   time when the Fastpass ticket is going

00:27:15   to be good for or is it a surprise no

00:27:18   you know ahead of time there's like

00:27:19   screens and things that's all advertised

00:27:21   so so it's like at the moment if you

00:27:22   scan yourself for a first pass your

00:27:24   first pass will be valid between three

00:27:25   and four you know that beforehand got it

00:27:28   got it all right now question about the

00:27:30   fast pass line mm-hmm how does it work

00:27:33   at the actual front of the line are they

00:27:36   just pulling everybody straight off of

00:27:38   the fast pass line on to the ride or are

00:27:40   they mixing them in or like how does

00:27:42   that work I'm not exactly sure but there

00:27:44   seems to be like a blending okay of the

00:27:47   lines that is heavily favored towards

00:27:49   the fast passes it's not like every fast

00:27:51   pass person gets on and then the slow

00:27:52   people get on because that wouldn't work

00:27:54   there's like a blending heavily-favored

00:27:57   towards the fast passes I don't know the

00:27:58   exact numbers but it felt like a fast

00:28:00   pass line is about twice as fast as a

00:28:03   slow line huh I don't know how

00:28:06   beneficial this actually is for anybody

00:28:08   who's in the park how did you feel about

00:28:11   it going through the day with the Fast

00:28:12   Pass this is what happened we went in

00:28:15   early at the start we were getting loads

00:28:18   of rides in at fast passes didn't even

00:28:20   matter like we were like oh let's go on

00:28:22   the Star Wars ride and it was like 9:00

00:28:24   in the morning and the Fastpass said

00:28:26   thing if you get a fast pass now it will

00:28:27   be valid between 9:00 and 10:00 so we

00:28:29   would like we didn't even need to get a

00:28:31   fast bus you just walk straight in so

00:28:33   for the first few hours the fast passes

00:28:36   if you got a fast pass it would be valid

00:28:38   in half an hour's time maybe it likely

00:28:39   to be 9:30 or if you get a fast pass you

00:28:42   can use it at 10:00 so we'd be like oh

00:28:43   great let's grab a fast pass quickly go

00:28:45   and do that ride and then come back at

00:28:47   10 and do this ride so at first it

00:28:49   seemed brilliant but then as more and

00:28:51   more people

00:28:52   into the park oh the first pass has

00:28:54   started evaporating and that our slots

00:28:56   were moving further and further into the

00:28:58   day it got to a point later in the day

00:29:00   where they were these two rides we

00:29:01   wanted to go on and one of them had a

00:29:03   slow line that was like two to two and a

00:29:06   half hours and the other one if we got a

00:29:10   fast pass we'd be able to use that fast

00:29:11   pass in about four hours time so we were

00:29:14   like oh God so we got the fast pass and

00:29:17   then we're like okay well we can't go on

00:29:18   that ride for four hours now we'll burn

00:29:20   through two and a half hours in a slow

00:29:21   line to get on that ride so as the day

00:29:25   goes on it becomes much less useful whoo

00:29:29   the thing I wondered for people who are

00:29:31   wandering or why don't you just go and

00:29:32   get lots of fast passes that a you can

00:29:35   only get one at a time because it's

00:29:36   linked to your ticket and if someone

00:29:38   else gets one for you like you could say

00:29:39   to someone are can you just scan your

00:29:41   ticket and get me a fast pass for the

00:29:43   roller coaster when you use your first

00:29:45   pass it's wedded to your ticket so they

00:29:47   do make sure I haven't just like got a

00:29:49   fistful of fast passes that you've got

00:29:51   off other people supposedly I don't know

00:29:53   how well that's police but that is how

00:29:54   it's supposed to work so they are trying

00:29:57   to stop people scamming system okay you

00:29:59   know what I'm just thinking though it's

00:30:00   like okay wait a second you can't buy a

00:30:02   fast pass but could you when you're

00:30:04   entering the park could you tell the

00:30:06   attendants that you're buying the

00:30:07   tickets from like I would like to buy

00:30:08   ten tickets please yeah but you know

00:30:11   what they marry your tickets to your IDs

00:30:12   and all sorts they're always like like

00:30:16   wait I think I've found a loophole here

00:30:17   nope the thing I wondered was if someone

00:30:21   is like a guest of Disneyland and Disney

00:30:23   I want them to you know have the

00:30:24   corporate VIP experience what do those

00:30:26   people get there must be some golden

00:30:28   ticket and although I figure out unless

00:30:30   there are secret entrances I was unaware

00:30:32   of I think the golden ticket is some

00:30:34   kind of pass that just gets you into any

00:30:37   Fast Pass line at any time yeah I'm

00:30:39   gonna bet that that's the case so you're

00:30:40   still gonna be waiting half an hour to

00:30:42   an hour but that must be the golden

00:30:43   ticket I know for a fact that Disney has

00:30:46   like a VIP system that people can try to

00:30:49   approach their way through and that they

00:30:51   have some special thing and I would

00:30:53   assume given your description of this

00:30:55   system that yeah it's like a Fast Pass

00:30:56   that's available at all times that would

00:30:58   be my yeah yeah and there's like lots of

00:31:00   places have this at the airlines have

00:31:02   special tickets they give out that will

00:31:04   essentially

00:31:06   essentially be a ticket that will tell

00:31:07   like the gate agent this person has to

00:31:09   get on a plane and if you need to boot

00:31:10   somebody off like you're gonna boot them

00:31:11   off that's given out to super VIPs so I

00:31:15   don't know like I can't articulate this

00:31:17   but something about this fast pass

00:31:18   system feels like a weird way in which

00:31:21   people feel like they're winning

00:31:22   something but I'm not actually sure they

00:31:24   are not I agree with you like I said I

00:31:27   think it's purely herd management it's

00:31:29   just moving the cows around in a way

00:31:31   that's not going to cause problems for

00:31:32   Disneyland yeah that that's what's

00:31:34   happening or maybe if I'm slightly more

00:31:37   cynical about it it's constantly trying

00:31:40   to give the guests more reasons to be

00:31:43   hanging out at like the restaurants or

00:31:45   places that you could pay and Disney

00:31:48   like to make that an easier thing for

00:31:49   people to do hmm

00:31:51   so that they can feel like they're not

00:31:52   wasting their time as much like they

00:31:54   have the virtual robot waiting online

00:31:56   for them hmm it's funny because it's

00:31:58   like this conversation started out with

00:32:01   my thought that there was something

00:32:02   called a Fastpass that you could buy and

00:32:04   gee I don't know how I feel about that

00:32:06   but I feel like this system is somehow

00:32:09   almost worse than just buying a VIP

00:32:11   ticket I don't know is something about

00:32:13   it that just feels like I don't quite

00:32:15   like either because there's something

00:32:17   democratic about oh we're all in an

00:32:19   amusement park together and people just

00:32:21   wait on lines and it's like an

00:32:23   artificial environment so I don't know

00:32:26   it's just it feels really weird and and

00:32:27   there's something about it that I don't

00:32:30   know almost adds like a layer of mental

00:32:32   work on top of what you're doing like

00:32:34   you have a thing to manage now while

00:32:37   you're in the park as opposed to a more

00:32:38   simpler task of you're just waiting on

00:32:41   line or you're making a decision about

00:32:42   how you want to spend your time versus

00:32:44   your money I have to know though Brady

00:32:45   these numbers that you're throwing out

00:32:47   about being on line for an hour and a

00:32:48   half or two hours are those real numbers

00:32:50   or those exaggerated numbers please tell

00:32:52   me there was one line for the cars ride

00:32:55   that it felt like we were in that line

00:32:57   for two or three hours

00:33:00   I tell you what it would have driven me

00:33:02   crazy except I hadn't seen Destin in

00:33:05   person for about a year we were just

00:33:07   like catching up so I enjoyed spending

00:33:08   time with him but if it had been other

00:33:11   circumstances it would have driven the

00:33:13   absolutely crazy yeah I can totally

00:33:15   leave that yes you have a great excuse

00:33:17   to be able to spend a whole bunch of

00:33:18   time with someone that you haven't

00:33:19   actually seen in person for a long time

00:33:20   so that mean yeah that makes it very

00:33:22   fundamentally different but standing on

00:33:25   line for two hours yeah do it's too much

00:33:28   it's terrible the number of times I

00:33:30   sounded like a grumpy old man and I said

00:33:32   they just let too many people in this

00:33:33   place right they're just greedy they

00:33:35   would double the number of people in

00:33:37   that place and they should be you think

00:33:38   they're greedy yeah I think I'm just

00:33:41   wondering because there'd be probably a

00:33:44   pretty easy way to get half as many

00:33:45   people in the park and that would be to

00:33:47   double the ticket price hmm would you

00:33:51   think that they're less greedy if they

00:33:52   double the ticket price to get half as

00:33:54   many people in or is that more greedy

00:33:56   well that would be one way they could do

00:33:58   it they could do it with price that

00:33:59   would be a greedy way to do it or they

00:34:02   could just sell this tickets no no you

00:34:05   can't just sell us tickets that's

00:34:06   madness no yet keep it affordable for

00:34:08   like the common man they're not running

00:34:10   a charity over there at Disney like that

00:34:12   Mouse has got to eat Brady I don't think

00:34:14   you understand well I have to say I'm

00:34:17   very interested to hear how the Fast

00:34:19   Pass works I think I feel like this is

00:34:20   gonna be on my mind for a while you

00:34:23   should go next time just go like us for

00:34:25   research I don't know I keep thinking

00:34:26   like there should be some kind of

00:34:28   auction system here to work this out oh

00:34:30   no I really thought that sounded I don't

00:34:33   even mean in terms of like money I just

00:34:34   mean like I know you may park credits or

00:34:37   something everybody has a certain amount

00:34:40   of park credits that they just get when

00:34:42   they walk in if there's a ride that you

00:34:44   really wanted to get to the front of

00:34:46   like you could spend park credits to get

00:34:48   on an additional line that would let you

00:34:50   get to the front faster and then you

00:34:51   could buy more Park credits from vending

00:34:53   machines conveniently located around the

00:34:55   park no no right now that's the terrible

00:34:57   idea all of a sudden oh wait a minute no

00:34:59   we've just made it a free-to-play game

00:35:00   everything becomes this everything is

00:35:04   gamified so great another little bit of

00:35:09   travel I did and I don't want to brag

00:35:12   are you sure but Mike

00:35:13   this was a beautiful place I went to

00:35:15   Santorini the Greek island whoa okay I

00:35:20   had no idea that you did this seriously

00:35:22   was one of the most beautiful places

00:35:23   I've been Santorini it sounds beautiful

00:35:26   it's a volcano crater that's a huge sort

00:35:30   of lagoon in the middle opening out to

00:35:32   the sea and it's got all these beautiful

00:35:34   little white washed stone villages like

00:35:37   all around the caldera of the volcano

00:35:39   almost spilling down the cliffs into the

00:35:42   sea it was gorgeous Wow

00:35:43   mmm anyway I'll send you some pictures

00:35:45   I'm looking at pictures online

00:35:46   it looks like Mamma Mia that's what it

00:35:48   looks like yeah I think Mamma Mia was

00:35:50   filmed in here which is the town I

00:35:51   stayed in oh okay well there we go so I

00:35:54   won't bore you with all the things I did

00:35:57   because it's pretty boring most there ii

00:35:58   sat around looking at the view I did

00:36:00   film a bunch of video so maybe we'll use

00:36:02   that as the YouTube video for this

00:36:05   particular episode of the podcast sounds

00:36:07   good are you featured bravely swimming

00:36:09   in any of these videos no no although I

00:36:12   did swim out in the caldera but I'll

00:36:14   come to that in a minute

00:36:15   because that's part of what I do want to

00:36:16   talk about there are two little things

00:36:17   that happened I want to talk about the

00:36:19   first is something I did that I've

00:36:21   always been curious about and I'll ask

00:36:25   if you've ever done it but I'd be

00:36:27   willing to bet a considerable amount of

00:36:29   Disney Land credits and that is I did

00:36:35   that thing where you put your fate in

00:36:38   like a tank of fish and they nibble your

00:36:40   fate mm-hmm have you ever done that

00:36:43   I have not done that now right actually

00:36:47   I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to

00:36:48   that I think you think I really I would

00:36:50   find like oh I would never possibly do I

00:36:52   would do that I wouldn't actually have a

00:36:53   problem with that I just happen do you

00:36:55   have not I've ever been in that

00:36:57   situation but was it nice Brady the fish

00:36:59   nibbles

00:37:00   it was interesting right I supposedly

00:37:02   they're like nibbling around dead skin

00:37:04   and stuff and they've got a little bit

00:37:05   of like anesthetic or something in their

00:37:07   saliva then causes some sensation your

00:37:10   face I don't I don't really know why it

00:37:12   was good and how legit it was but we all

00:37:15   did it I was there there was my wife and

00:37:17   another couple and we all stuck effe in

00:37:19   and the things that were interesting the

00:37:22   first thing that was interesting was my

00:37:24   wife was very apprehensive about and

00:37:26   very stressed because

00:37:27   is not a fan of like fish and sea

00:37:29   creatures but yeah well I mean the sea

00:37:31   is disgusting I'm with her on that one

00:37:32   okay so when she put her feet in she was

00:37:35   very tense and the fish sense that and

00:37:37   the other three of us were having lots

00:37:39   and lots of fish nibbling on our feet

00:37:41   and the very few of the fish very near

00:37:43   perfect and I was like saying to the

00:37:46   people running the place Hey look my

00:37:47   wife's not getting any fish nibbling

00:37:48   what's your game and they were like is

00:37:50   she really worried and stressed about

00:37:51   this and um well actually she is and

00:37:53   they were like yeah the fish no I don't

00:37:55   know that sounds like an excuse for a

00:37:57   defective fish as far as anything she's

00:37:59   got a bad batch yeah exactly

00:38:01   I'm sorry those are defective but the

00:38:03   other thing was this little place where

00:38:04   they were doing it it was really set up

00:38:06   as bit of a tourist trap it was a lovely

00:38:08   looking house you could see into her and

00:38:10   everyone was going in to do it and

00:38:12   obviously we were sucked in with the

00:38:14   rest of them so lots of people were

00:38:15   taking lots of pictures and making lots

00:38:17   of videos and I will share one in the

00:38:19   show notes and you can look at me with

00:38:20   my feet in the fish tank and look at the

00:38:22   video I deliberately didn't post it

00:38:24   because I was saving it for the temps

00:38:26   Wow so they can have the first look but

00:38:29   it did make me wonder because we were

00:38:32   all like you know hovering our phones

00:38:34   over the tank taking these pictures so I

00:38:36   said to the staff how often do people

00:38:38   drop their phones in these fish tanks

00:38:40   taking pictures and they just looked at

00:38:42   me completely deadpan I said three or

00:38:45   four a day

00:38:47   three or four times a day people drop

00:38:50   their phones into the fish tank taking

00:38:51   pictures of fish nibbling their feet in

00:38:53   this one tiny shot and the other thing I

00:38:57   did ask was how often do people get in

00:38:59   because like when people first put their

00:39:01   feet in some people like freak out and

00:39:02   start screaming and my attitude is like

00:39:05   calm down they just little fish that

00:39:07   seems like someone's being a bit of a

00:39:09   drama llama there yeah I'm doing that

00:39:10   like they just want the attention for

00:39:12   screaming it's what they want well yeah

00:39:13   maybe so I did say to them how many

00:39:16   times a day do people pay their money

00:39:17   put their feet in and say not take their

00:39:20   feet out and leave or do not even put

00:39:22   their feet in at all ten times a day at

00:39:25   least people hand over their money and

00:39:27   then won't put their feet in or take

00:39:28   their feet straight out because they're

00:39:30   scared of the fish but kind of related

00:39:33   to phone dropping there was one other

00:39:36   thing that happened and you might think

00:39:37   this is like a boring brady story no

00:39:39   because essentially it is a boring

00:39:41   Brittany story I don't think any of your

00:39:42   stories are boring really

00:39:43   one other thing happened that really

00:39:45   affected me oh yeah on one of the days

00:39:47   we decided we would get it and we went

00:39:49   on this boat trip and we hired this like

00:39:51   posh catamaran that takes you out into

00:39:55   the center of Santorini you watch the

00:39:58   sunset and they take you out to the

00:40:00   middle where the center of the volcano

00:40:02   is and the water is volcanic they're

00:40:05   like it's like as you swim in it like

00:40:06   there are like hot patches because of

00:40:08   all the springs and hotness underneath

00:40:10   mm-hmm so I was like oh I want to swim

00:40:13   in that so they're like okay like not

00:40:15   everyone wants to swim in it but I was

00:40:17   you know how does now else I wanted to

00:40:19   jump in the volcano water of course so

00:40:21   they were like well you bathers might

00:40:23   get stained by the unusual water because

00:40:25   it's very smelly and full of sulfur and

00:40:27   I'm well I didn't care and they said and

00:40:29   also you have to take off like any

00:40:31   jewelry because that stuff might get

00:40:33   affected and I'm okay whatever so I took

00:40:35   my ring off and took my watch off and

00:40:36   everything and then I put them in my cap

00:40:39   and stuff and my sunnies and stuff and

00:40:40   then jumped in the water had a swim very

00:40:43   good fun and then when I got out I was

00:40:46   like oh I want to do like a snapchat or

00:40:48   like take a picture now you know I feel

00:40:51   invincible when it comes to phone

00:40:52   dropping I don't worry about having my

00:40:54   phone at the edge of things too much

00:40:57   because like I'm invincible I'm

00:40:59   invincible so I went and grabbed my cap

00:41:02   which had my phone in it and came and

00:41:04   went to the very back of the boat where

00:41:06   it like slopes down into the water and

00:41:07   took my phone out of my cap and started

00:41:12   doing a snap and suddenly I heard this

00:41:14   ding ding ding and like I thought like

00:41:17   the people running the boat had dropped

00:41:18   like a tool like a screwdriver or like a

00:41:21   it sounded like an allen key being

00:41:22   dropped I wonder what that noise was by

00:41:24   I ignored it and then my wife says Brady

00:41:27   that was your wedding ring which I'd

00:41:31   also put in my cap I'm like oh my

00:41:34   goodness and like the back of the boat

00:41:36   here was like you know sloped down

00:41:37   deliberately so water can run off into

00:41:39   the sea and stuff you know and I'm not

00:41:42   and I tell you what I've never let my

00:41:45   heart just sank and I looked down and

00:41:48   perched the very very edge of the boat

00:41:52   hanging into the sea hanging over was my

00:41:56   ring it had rode to the edge of the boat

00:41:57   and just stopped and it was hanging over

00:41:59   the edge and like I just saw her and

00:42:02   then in the corner of my eye like the

00:42:04   guy who was like running the boat one of

00:42:06   the boat helpers had seen it too and he

00:42:08   started leaning towards it to pick it up

00:42:10   and I just screamed stop don't touch it

00:42:14   look I did because I didn't want anyone

00:42:16   stuffing up and knocking it in yeah yeah

00:42:18   exactly it's like if this is going in

00:42:19   the water it's gotta be my fault you

00:42:21   know I just I just tiptoed up to it cuz

00:42:23   just touching it could have knocked her

00:42:24   over the edge

00:42:24   sinking into the water and I just gently

00:42:28   reached and just got my finger in it and

00:42:30   just dragged along the thing off the

00:42:32   edge until it was safe and then picked

00:42:34   up and put it on my finger and like I

00:42:36   was like I just sat down and I said oh

00:42:39   my god I can't believe that just

00:42:41   happened I was like what would I have

00:42:43   done like I can't believe it my wife was

00:42:45   nervous we support another one I was

00:42:52   like for like 10-15 minutes I just I

00:42:54   just had to have a little sit-down

00:42:55   she's a very practical woman now yeah

00:42:58   yeah it was it was very sobering it was

00:43:01   very scary oh man I think you have my

00:43:04   sympathies with that one it's funny

00:43:05   because when when my wife and I got

00:43:08   married we intentionally took a moment

00:43:11   to say to each other if you ever lose

00:43:14   the wedding ring

00:43:15   we're both agreeing now like it's not

00:43:17   any kind of big deal exactly like you're

00:43:18   like what you mean like an omen or

00:43:20   something yeah it's like yeah you just

00:43:21   lose a wedding ring you just lose it

00:43:23   right I can yeah it's an object you can

00:43:25   just lose it we'll just get another one

00:43:27   it's totally fine

00:43:29   and actually I am on I'm on my second

00:43:32   wedding ring in the exact same style my

00:43:34   wife just surprised me as a gift and got

00:43:36   a second wedding ring because after

00:43:38   after the fitted Rollins stuff from last

00:43:40   year my regular wedding ring was

00:43:42   actually a little too big on my hand and

00:43:43   it was bothering me so she got me one

00:43:45   slightly a size smaller so I don't have

00:43:47   this feeling of like you need to hold on

00:43:49   to the original item but even even I in

00:43:53   that moment like I think I would react

00:43:55   the exact same way that you do I think

00:43:57   there's there's like an impossibility to

00:43:59   not have a kind of gut reaction about

00:44:01   like this thing is incredibly valuable

00:44:03   and irreplaceable and it's like perched

00:44:05   on the

00:44:06   even if in my head I know like oh my

00:44:08   wife and I we agree like we'll just get

00:44:09   another one and at this point if I were

00:44:11   to lose it it wouldn't even be my

00:44:13   original wedding ring it's just like a

00:44:15   little gut reaction that I think what I

00:44:16   would find impossible not to do even

00:44:20   with intentionally no no put it like not

00:44:24   trying to like D sacred ties the objects

00:44:27   so that you're avoiding a future

00:44:29   disaster yeah like it's funny on the

00:44:33   total opposite end of the spectrum my

00:44:36   father-in-law has never removed his

00:44:40   wedding ring after he put it on for the

00:44:43   first time at his wedding Wow and I I

00:44:46   feel like that is a kind of streak that

00:44:49   I couldn't psychologically handle it's

00:44:51   just like this streak then becomes like

00:44:53   too long and too powerful and I whenever

00:44:56   anything like that would ever happen in

00:44:59   my life I feel like I would

00:45:00   intentionally D streak or D say critize

00:45:02   those kind of things like you can't turn

00:45:04   this into a thing it's like it's very

00:45:06   impressive that he's done that but every

00:45:07   time it ever comes up in conversation I

00:45:09   just start getting nervous for him right

00:45:12   but it's like you're gonna have to take

00:45:13   off his ring at some point I wonder if

00:45:15   like in quiet moments if he ever like

00:45:17   loosens and let pulls it down towards

00:45:19   his fingers like oh love the void maybe

00:45:34   that's the whole reason he keeps the

00:45:35   street going is that it's an exciting

00:45:36   thing to do every once in a while live

00:45:40   dangerously

00:45:41   oh but I'm glad I'm glad you got your

00:45:43   wedding ring back and I'm glad that your

00:45:47   invincibility in dropping objects is has

00:45:51   stayed with you it continues like it

00:45:53   continues and I know I'm jinxing myself

00:45:55   here and also I did too a bit of a lie I

00:45:58   am very paranoid holding my phone at the

00:46:00   edge of boats and things like that and I

00:46:02   am the guy who always says do i careful

00:46:03   with your phone when you're under bridge

00:46:05   love like I do hold it really carefully

00:46:06   so I am a bit paranoid about the edge of

00:46:08   boats so I was being super careful when

00:46:11   I took my phone out of the cap and just

00:46:13   completely forgot that I put my ring in

00:46:14   there is your wedding ring in there

00:46:15   because I never take my ring off either

00:46:17   really like I very rarely take it off

00:46:20   interesting I take my wedding ring off

00:46:21   fairly regularly like when I go to the

00:46:23   gym I take it off because it's

00:46:25   uncomfortable when holding the bars but

00:46:27   I'm always aware of trying to remember

00:46:29   very consciously like it is in the gym

00:46:31   locker like in your pants pong and like

00:46:33   don't forget like having a mental place

00:46:35   of holding it where it is and I also

00:46:38   just I tend to play with it as well like

00:46:39   I tend to take the ring off and just

00:46:41   like move it around in my hand and then

00:46:42   put it back on yeah so I feel like it's

00:46:44   a small miracle that I haven't lost a

00:46:46   ring at some point it's only a matter of

00:46:49   time why not join the three million

00:46:52   people three million apparently who have

00:46:55   turned to Harry's for a great shave at a

00:46:57   great price now of course that number

00:46:59   would be two million nine hundred ninety

00:47:01   nine thousand nine hundred and ninety

00:47:03   nine were it not for me because I am one

00:47:05   of the Harry's shavers that is like a

00:47:08   person who shaves with Harry's I'm not

00:47:10   like a shaver itself like Excalibur

00:47:12   ready for action my silver-handled

00:47:14   Harry's sits proudly waiting in the

00:47:17   bathroom ready for action whenever

00:47:18   called upon now what is Harry's you ask

00:47:21   well I'll share a little story you may

00:47:23   not have heard before you see Harry's

00:47:25   was started by two guys Jeff and Andy

00:47:28   and they were sick of buying overpriced

00:47:31   razors they bought their own German

00:47:33   factory with over a hundred years of

00:47:35   blade making experience they started

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00:47:58   favorite thing about Harry's I love the

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00:48:10   is a present for someone else which is

00:48:11   also a good idea go to harrys.com / h i

00:48:16   that website harrys.com / h i and now

00:48:21   thanks to them for supporting this

00:48:22   episode so gray this next one's gonna

00:48:26   require a little bit of background and

00:48:28   for people who follow me on twitter

00:48:31   they'll probably already be quite aware

00:48:32   of it and apologies for the who

00:48:34   but it has been a bit of a distraction

00:48:36   for me this week it shouldn't have been

00:48:37   some reason I got sucked into a black

00:48:39   hole I'm ashamed to have been sucked

00:48:41   into and I want to tell you about it now

00:48:42   yeah but you know what

00:48:43   something like black holes get us all

00:48:46   this stuff that you know that you

00:48:47   shouldn't get sucked into but you know

00:48:48   what every once in a while everyone gets

00:48:51   suckered into something that they

00:48:52   shouldn't so it's become a bit of a

00:48:53   guilty play toy for me so let me tell

00:48:56   you about it yes so first of all just by

00:48:59   way of background so you're kind of in

00:49:01   in the picture maybe a little bit of

00:49:03   unnecessary background but it does help

00:49:04   put things into context for a long time

00:49:08   now there's this institution in the UK

00:49:10   called the Radio Times I believe was

00:49:13   started by it was certainly part of the

00:49:15   BBC for a long time and I think it

00:49:17   started as like a printed guide to radio

00:49:19   listings so you knew what was on like a

00:49:22   TV Guide for radio yeah exactly but what

00:49:25   happened was it very quickly became the

00:49:27   TV Guide for all of the UK as well it

00:49:30   just kept the name Radio Times ok that's

00:49:32   confusing yeah so forever in a day

00:49:35   well back in the good old days before I

00:49:36   was even in the UK I think having a copy

00:49:38   of the Radio Times was pretty important

00:49:41   because it was a good way to find out

00:49:42   what was on TV and even to this day if

00:49:44   my wife wants to know what's on TV shows

00:49:46   sometimes say oh why don't you check the

00:49:47   Radio Times website because obviously it

00:49:49   evolved into a website now for obvious

00:49:53   reasons this is not a business model

00:49:55   that seems to have a strong future

00:49:57   certainly printed copies even the

00:49:59   website I think has limited value yeah I

00:50:01   mean that the very concept of what's on

00:50:04   TV now is I think a concept that is

00:50:07   dying yeah the Radio Times very much

00:50:10   evolved into like most of these TV

00:50:12   guides also evolved into kind of like a

00:50:15   magazine about news and what's happening

00:50:17   in TV shows and what's happening on the

00:50:18   radio so it's always got articles and

00:50:20   things like that as well

00:50:21   it's not just purely a function of TV

00:50:23   Guide now a while ago now I'm pretty

00:50:27   sure this is right if I'm wrong I'll

00:50:28   take my beating later but the BBC sold

00:50:32   the Radio Times they sold the brand I

00:50:34   think they thought it wasn't really that

00:50:35   valuable to them it still had a little

00:50:37   bit of value to it so they sold it off

00:50:39   so it's no longer a BBC commodity or

00:50:42   asset it's just the Radio Times I'm not

00:50:45   a follower of it but from the little bit

00:50:47   I've looked

00:50:48   this week I have the distinct impression

00:50:50   it's gone a little bit trashy it's gone

00:50:53   a little bit town market since the BBC

00:50:55   offloaded it you can imagine in you know

00:50:58   the fight to survive maybe there they're

00:51:00   going a bit down market

00:51:01   just my opinion apologies if I'm wrong

00:51:03   so that's what the Radio Times is

00:51:06   they've got this website a little bit

00:51:08   trashy populist might be a nicer way to

00:51:10   put it yeah it looks like they just have

00:51:12   a bunch of news about celebrities like

00:51:14   I'm just clicking around and it's like

00:51:16   celebrity TV news stuff yeah so again a

00:51:22   lot of this I have found out in

00:51:23   retrospect but last year they had on

00:51:26   their website they did some kind of

00:51:28   popularity contest

00:51:29   with different categories like who's

00:51:31   your favorite actor who's your favorite

00:51:33   TV star who's your favorite radio

00:51:35   presenter and they did all this public

00:51:37   online voting mm-hmm and I don't think

00:51:39   you win anything in particular you're

00:51:41   just like I think they call it like

00:51:42   their champion their radio times

00:51:44   champion or whatever and apparently it

00:51:46   was quite popular last year so they've

00:51:48   done it again this year and early in

00:51:50   this year's contest it was brought to my

00:51:54   attention and this is where the story

00:51:56   starts for me and unbeknownst to you

00:51:59   also starts for you because one of the

00:52:02   categories they created this year

00:52:04   instead of just having radio stars they

00:52:06   seem to have radio and podcast mm-hmm

00:52:09   they created some audio section it's not

00:52:12   entirely clear what you're voting on or

00:52:15   how one becomes the champion whether you

00:52:17   are like you know I don't know if it's

00:52:20   if you're good at your job or just

00:52:21   popular or have a nice voice or whatever

00:52:25   it is that doesn't seem to be specified

00:52:26   it's just like a trashy contest online

00:52:30   to drive lots of people to their website

00:52:32   with pages with ads on it and get lots

00:52:35   of clicks

00:52:35   it's like clickbait isn't it and they're

00:52:38   taking advantage of people's popularity

00:52:40   these things happen now for reasons

00:52:44   again unbeknownst to me how this

00:52:45   happened you and I were lumped into this

00:52:47   contest no it's not exactly clear to me

00:52:51   how one becomes the champion I'm not

00:52:53   sure if it was like for the person who

00:52:55   like has the best voice or is the most

00:52:57   entertaining or it's just a raw

00:52:59   popularity contest which i think is what

00:53:01   a kind of

00:53:02   today well it says here that the radio

00:53:04   and podcast champion is about who's got

00:53:07   the velvet voice to claim the title well

00:53:10   but it's actually just a popularity

00:53:12   contest I did read that a velvet voice

00:53:14   line and that did make me think Grey's

00:53:16   demand but anyway let's talk about what

00:53:19   happened obviously this is just like a

00:53:21   clickbait click farm that we're all

00:53:24   getting suckered into this is a machine

00:53:25   to generate page views as well yes yes

00:53:28   so all of this has happened unbeknownst

00:53:31   to me it was drawn to my attention by a

00:53:34   benign tweet where someone pointed it

00:53:37   out that I clicked on and I landed on

00:53:38   the page near the star of this

00:53:41   competition now the way the competition

00:53:44   is structured is the same in all the

00:53:45   different categories but I'll just talk

00:53:46   about the radio podcast category and

00:53:48   what they seem to have done is created

00:53:51   this huge list of audio personalities

00:53:55   for lack of a better term because it's

00:53:56   radio and podcast people all lumped

00:53:58   together mm-hmm

00:53:59   and I'm assuming it's very UK skewed

00:54:02   mm-hmm because there's lots of British

00:54:04   radio presenters in there lots of famous

00:54:06   names from over the years and things

00:54:07   like that and you and I obviously was in

00:54:10   this list I don't know how on earth has

00:54:12   happened but it happened well I mean I

00:54:14   guess we're a UK podcast yeah but I

00:54:17   don't know how the people at Radio Times

00:54:18   knew about us and stuff like I would

00:54:20   have thought we were a little bit

00:54:21   obscure for them anyway we're there I do

00:54:24   not think we would be a little bit

00:54:25   obscure for the bit continue on all

00:54:27   right so what happens is all of these

00:54:30   people this massive list was broken into

00:54:32   four groups Group a group B C and D like

00:54:36   a World Cup or a sporting competition

00:54:38   and apparently this division was done

00:54:41   randomly you and I ended up in the same

00:54:44   group we were in Group D well it was

00:54:47   drawn to my attention myself and this

00:54:50   other chap called Greg James who I've

00:54:52   learned is like a very famous Radio One

00:54:55   presenter in the UK BBC Radio 1 very

00:54:58   popular with the young people he's like

00:55:00   he's a big deal so him and I were like

00:55:03   near the top and you were like 3rd or

00:55:05   4th or something but obviously there had

00:55:07   not been many votes at this point

00:55:08   because one or two votes here and there

00:55:10   were dramatically changing the

00:55:13   percentages of who got what right right

00:55:15   and

00:55:15   when I drew people was attention to this

00:55:17   things changed rapidly and you

00:55:21   absolutely skyrocketed to the top of the

00:55:24   group D at one point you were like

00:55:26   garnering 70% of the vote and myself in

00:55:30   this chap called Greg James was sort of

00:55:32   slugging it out for second place we were

00:55:34   quite close I was encouraging people to

00:55:37   actually vote for you because this is

00:55:39   obviously a nonsense thing and sort of

00:55:42   the the public recognition and like you

00:55:44   winning a public vote like this would be

00:55:46   so awkward that it would tickle me no

00:55:48   end and be quite funny so I was quite

00:55:49   happy to see you streaking away but yeah

00:55:51   no I know I know exactly what you're up

00:55:53   to here right like you're trying to put

00:55:54   me in a difficult position if I were to

00:55:56   win this thing I know I know what you're

00:55:57   doing you're not doing me any favors

00:55:59   yeah so anyway I thought this was very

00:56:01   funny and you were running away in

00:56:03   winning Group D and it got to the point

00:56:05   where so many teams were involved and

00:56:07   there was all this red a coordination

00:56:08   going that I was even trying to

00:56:10   manipulate the percentages and I was

00:56:11   sort of saying let's try and get gray

00:56:13   onto exactly you know two-thirds of the

00:56:15   vote and things like that and for a

00:56:17   while that was working but then you sort

00:56:19   of came back a little bit but you ended

00:56:22   up with over fifty percent of the vote

00:56:23   in group day big big winner and I

00:56:26   indulged this Greg James guy for second

00:56:28   place no doubt because all the Tim's

00:56:30   were playing around and this vote is the

00:56:33   worst structured voting system in the

00:56:35   history of voting because you can just

00:56:37   vote multiple times you could just sit

00:56:39   there and click some people are saying

00:56:41   you can't vote twice in a minute on

00:56:43   their browsers but other people they're

00:56:44   just voting over and over again so the

00:56:47   whole thing's a debacle yeah yeah

00:56:48   there's no way that's true I have voted

00:56:50   immediately after it's a debacle so

00:56:53   anyway you won and I thought that was

00:56:56   good and I actually hadn't really looked

00:56:57   into what happened next and I assumed

00:56:59   you would go off and then now compete

00:57:01   with the winners of Group A B and C but

00:57:05   we are nowhere near that stage yet

00:57:07   because what it turns out what they then

00:57:09   did to keep this clique farm running

00:57:12   mm-hmm

00:57:12   was the top eight people in each group

00:57:15   then have this kind of head-to-head

00:57:18   knockout contest so you're paired up

00:57:21   with people now and there are these

00:57:22   head-to-head battles so you were paired

00:57:25   up with a woman called Jenny Murray

00:57:27   who's the present

00:57:29   of the woman's hour on BBC radio and

00:57:31   that vote went along and you won that

00:57:34   vote congratulations so you got to go

00:57:36   through to the next stage I was paired

00:57:39   up with someone very interesting I was

00:57:40   paired up with a radio presenter called

00:57:44   Chris Evans okay that's the name I know

00:57:45   I know the name Chris Evans I don't know

00:57:47   why but I know that name our American

00:57:49   friends would know him because he

00:57:50   presented top gear for a year just

00:57:52   recently when the big top gear up he he

00:57:55   was the guy that was brought in to try

00:57:56   and save the show he's very very famous

00:57:58   in the UK less famous elsewhere and

00:58:01   funnily enough on that exact same day

00:58:03   that I was paired up with him the BBC

00:58:06   the big news story of the day in the UK

00:58:09   was the BBC had been forced to release

00:58:10   the salaries of all of their celebrities

00:58:13   that earned over a hundred and fifty

00:58:14   thousand pounds a year and Chris Evans

00:58:17   came top of the list here and like

00:58:19   something over 2 million pounds a year

00:58:21   from the BBC so he was really really

00:58:23   heavily in the news that day mm-hmm it

00:58:25   was a big deal can you believe Chris

00:58:26   Evans gets 2 million pounds of public

00:58:28   money and all this sort of stuff and

00:58:30   then the BBC were defending at saying

00:58:32   look he hosts the most popular radio

00:58:34   show on Europe's most popular radio

00:58:36   station of course he's worth all this

00:58:38   money and on the same day I was in this

00:58:40   popularity contest with Chris Evans so

00:58:43   this really amused me and most of my

00:58:47   friends have no interest or don't even

00:58:50   know about hello Internet so for me to

00:58:53   be able to go on Facebook and say to my

00:58:54   friend say look I'm in a popularity

00:58:56   contest with Chris Evans who everyone

00:58:58   knows that was like quite funny my

00:59:00   friends were quite amused by that and lo

00:59:02   and behold again thanks to the Tim's and

00:59:05   probably thanks to the fact recipients

00:59:07   was keeping a low media profile that day

00:59:08   and was unlikely to tweet and ask all

00:59:11   his fans to vote for him I don't see why

00:59:13   but let's ignore that I won the vote

00:59:16   like I I smashed Chris Evans so this was

00:59:19   very amusing to me I think this allows

00:59:21   you to officially put on your CV Brady

00:59:23   Haran more popular than Chris F yes

00:59:25   anyway so this was really funny and for

00:59:27   me this was like my Wimbledon like Timmy

00:59:30   I was like the journeyman tennis player

00:59:32   in the early rounds of Wimbledon tennis

00:59:34   tournament playing a high seed and

00:59:36   winning and even though I don't win the

00:59:37   tournament I was like a giant killer and

00:59:39   I'd had my moment so anyway we went

00:59:41   through to the next round

00:59:42   I was paired up next time with my

00:59:45   nemesis Greg James again this red here

00:59:48   one presenter who I advised for second

00:59:50   place with the first time around

00:59:52   and I was like joking around on Twitter

00:59:53   like saying I look at my nemesis but I

00:59:56   didn't actually know that much about him

00:59:57   to be honest like I knew he was like

00:59:59   very popular

00:59:59   very popular

01:00:00   hello and that so I went to his

01:00:01   Wikipedia page just to learn more about

01:00:02   him and the Tim's had already beaten me

01:00:05   there and in the part of Wikipedia page

01:00:07   where it was like you write about that

01:00:09   personal information it said his arch

01:00:11   nemesis is Brady Haran the YouTube video

01:00:13   creator and podcast he was officially

01:00:17   vs. no I'm just like man I'm just

01:00:24   laughing because it's like there's this

01:00:27   virus there's like these minor pages of

01:00:30   Wikipedia yeah I have seen editors that

01:00:32   specifically reference like hello

01:00:34   Internet vandalism reverted know what

01:00:37   people are up to and again I would never

01:00:39   encourage these hilarious edits on minor

01:00:42   pages like it's not something that you

01:00:43   should do with the Wikipedia but it's

01:00:45   just like it just really I love the idea

01:00:47   that this random person is enlisted as

01:00:49   your heart anyway that was me and you

01:00:55   were put up against this guy called

01:00:56   Steve Allen who I have to admit again I

01:00:58   wasn't familiar with but I learned is a

01:01:00   very popular London talk show host and

01:01:04   has been around for years and years and

01:01:06   has won awards and you know good on him

01:01:08   very big name in radio apparently okay

01:01:11   I'll take your word for it

01:01:12   hmm so you are winning against him and I

01:01:15   was holding my own against Greg James

01:01:17   and like the teams were getting involved

01:01:19   and I saw coordination on reddit which

01:01:22   led to the coining of two new terms both

01:01:25   of which I quite like

01:01:26   one is Tim work whom Tim's work together

01:01:29   to make cently happen I like that that's

01:01:31   great yeah and the other one was Tim

01:01:33   Foley

01:01:36   also a good one

01:01:38   those are great words that's fantastic

01:01:41   so there was a lot of Tim work and Tim

01:01:43   foolery going around and I believe

01:01:44   scripts and algorithms were being

01:01:46   written to try and ballot stuff and help

01:01:49   us out I mean hey the website says vote

01:01:51   early vote often like forty one yeah so

01:01:54   anyway I went on to win my vote against

01:01:57   my nemesis Greg James and that was

01:01:59   setting up the much-anticipated and

01:02:02   talked about final in Group D against

01:02:04   you and everyone was so curious about

01:02:06   what would happen when you and I were

01:02:07   placed head-to-head and I already had

01:02:09   all my jokes and gags and things I was

01:02:11   going to do ready it was going to be so

01:02:12   much fun

01:02:13   but Steve Allen supporters they got

01:02:17   together on Facebook and elsewhere and

01:02:19   they put in a really concerted effort

01:02:21   and obviously you were oblivious to all

01:02:23   this so you weren't trying to manipulate

01:02:24   the process anyway well no I knew this

01:02:26   thing was happening because you I'd seen

01:02:28   it the day before get started but it was

01:02:30   one of these things I quickly realized

01:02:32   the last thing in the world that I want

01:02:33   is to win this poll right so that's why

01:02:35   I was like I'm gonna shut the hell up on

01:02:37   Twitter like that's my strategy like I

01:02:40   would I decided to close my mouth about

01:02:42   this yeah well there were rumors

01:02:44   abounded that you so didn't want to win

01:02:46   that you were actually writing scripts

01:02:48   and you were manipulating the vote in

01:02:49   favor of Steve Allen I cannot comment on

01:02:52   that well whatever the reason well Steve

01:02:57   Allen came back and he won so that was

01:03:00   the end of you I'm afraid you were

01:03:01   knocked out yes thank you Steve Allen so

01:03:04   to win Group D and this is going on at

01:03:07   the moment I should point out for people

01:03:08   listening so you're not going to get

01:03:09   resolution in this podcast this is

01:03:11   occurring live we're live podcasting

01:03:13   about this so to win Group D it was me

01:03:16   versus Steve Allen and like I have to

01:03:18   say I didn't care about winning I didn't

01:03:21   want to win I wanted you to win I wasn't

01:03:23   competitive about it I wasn't too

01:03:25   bothered I'd had my fun I had my moment

01:03:27   with Chris Evans who was the only person

01:03:29   in the list who was really really famous

01:03:30   to me yeah and I'd beaten him so I felt

01:03:32   like I'd had my fun and I had my moment

01:03:34   and whatever happens happens

01:03:36   yeah and I was keeping an eye on it from

01:03:38   time to time because people were

01:03:39   tweeting me and early on I was like a

01:03:42   head and then Steve Allen was pegging me

01:03:44   back and it was pretty much 50/50 and he

01:03:46   seems to have these surges later that's

01:03:48   what happened against you he had this

01:03:49   late surge so I thought okay well he's

01:03:51   gonna win he's obviously a big famous

01:03:53   award-winning radio presenter and good

01:03:55   luck to him but then someone pointed out

01:03:58   to me a tweet that he had written and it

01:04:03   kind of riled me up a little bit yeah so

01:04:05   I came across this as well and I

01:04:09   understand what you're sort of

01:04:11   hesitating to say here because in like

01:04:14   in this story I am totally with you it's

01:04:17   like oh this has been like a funny thing

01:04:18   but then Steve Allen tweets

01:04:21   I'm through to the quarterfinals so we

01:04:25   need to vote again on the

01:04:27   Radio Times website it's another person

01:04:30   I've never heard of please vote another

01:04:33   person I've never heard of yet so this

01:04:35   is referring to the both of us yeah as

01:04:39   like it's somebody I've never heard of

01:04:42   vote for me against this nobody that's

01:04:45   what it sounds like it's kind of feels a

01:04:47   bit that way doesn't know we're a couple

01:04:49   of nobodies and go and vote for me a bit

01:04:51   sort this out

01:04:52   it totally does like always with tweets

01:04:54   you know it's like you can't people are

01:04:56   terrible at reading the thing the way

01:04:58   someone means for it to be read yeah but

01:05:01   when I came across this because now I'm

01:05:03   in the position of I have nothing to

01:05:05   worry about and it's you versus Steve

01:05:07   Allen now in my mind this thing is

01:05:10   totally switched because I feel like

01:05:12   Steve Allen well guess what Steve Allen

01:05:15   I don't know who the hell you are right

01:05:17   but you you are not treating Brady with

01:05:22   the respect he deserves and Dave and I

01:05:24   want to see you crushed like I don't

01:05:27   want to see Brady just win like I want

01:05:30   to see you a crowned into the goddamn

01:05:33   dust by a podcast with many many

01:05:37   hundreds of thousands of followers right

01:05:40   it's like somebody you've never heard of

01:05:42   and what like you can't bother to type

01:05:44   it into Google for two seconds to look

01:05:46   up who dr. Brady Haran is like you can't

01:05:48   figure this out you can't even look at

01:05:50   this guy on Twitter who has way more

01:05:51   Twitter followers than you like there's

01:05:53   something about it which whether he

01:05:55   intended or not like just comes off as

01:05:58   incredibly dismissive and it's like it's

01:06:01   because he's against you I feel really

01:06:03   emotionally invested your victory over

01:06:06   Steve Allen like I really do this guy

01:06:09   I've never heard of but like I would

01:06:11   never go on the internet and be like Oh

01:06:13   Brady's got a beat some Rando I've never

01:06:15   heard of just go vote right and in it

01:06:17   like in a very

01:06:18   assumptive way like something about it

01:06:20   just drives me crazy and so like

01:06:21   whatever you're gonna say I feel like I

01:06:24   feel it ten times more than you do

01:06:26   oh that's nice I tell you what gray he's

01:06:29   heard of us now yeah I hope so

01:06:34   so I don't know what's gonna happen I

01:06:36   don't know whether Steve Allen is going

01:06:37   to defeat the both of us well here's the

01:06:40   thing I don't know what's going to

01:06:42   happen I can simply say at this very

01:06:44   moment I have just checked the results

01:06:46   and so far we have managed to push you

01:06:48   into an 81 percent victory over 19

01:06:52   percent for Steve Allen so so far we're

01:06:55   doing pretty well I don't know when this

01:06:57   round finishes but he's got quite a lead

01:07:01   to overcome at this point and I'm I'm

01:07:04   still going to be promoting this on

01:07:06   Twitter like I want to see that

01:07:07   disparity get as high as it can get

01:07:10   I'm kinda hoping he gets a bit sour

01:07:12   grapes about if it happens that way but

01:07:13   I don't know what's gonna happen but I

01:07:15   don't know when it ends it ends in a

01:07:18   couple of days actually so it's gonna be

01:07:20   a long battle this one but you know what

01:07:22   couple of days it gives us plenty of

01:07:23   time to push that up even higher yeah

01:07:26   like keep going and keep cut but like

01:07:29   okay so I feel like I sort of jumped in

01:07:31   over you here because of the intensity

01:07:33   of my emotion over this pointless and

01:07:36   poorly rigged popularity contests that

01:07:39   is a fartist that is entirely to

01:07:41   generate money for a lowbrow TV Guide

01:07:44   right the whole thing is just comical

01:07:48   but like what is life if we don't get

01:07:50   ridiculously upset over things that

01:07:52   don't matter right no fun at all that's

01:07:54   what it is but so I feel like I jumped

01:07:56   in on this how do you feel Brady how

01:07:58   does that tweet make you feel do you

01:08:00   know what not really riled but there are

01:08:03   you know among my many vices two of them

01:08:06   are people treating new media with

01:08:11   disrespect like old media like TV and

01:08:14   radio people treating online video and

01:08:16   podcasts disrespectful yeah like it's

01:08:18   the second-class citizen I feel like

01:08:21   he's done that a little bit and the

01:08:22   other problem I have is like I do get a

01:08:25   bit competitive about games this is why

01:08:27   I don't play games like those read on

01:08:29   that because I'm a little bit

01:08:29   competitive I'd managed to completely

01:08:31   Park that I was like I don't care I

01:08:34   still don't care about like what happens

01:08:36   when it goes to group a and B and D you

01:08:38   know those people

01:08:39   there's some big famous people in there

01:08:40   and I I hope they win like I don't care

01:08:43   about winning but this one now

01:08:45   like I've kind of got a little bit

01:08:47   about and I'm like ah you know what now

01:08:50   I do kind of want to win this one yeah

01:08:51   I'm with you on that entirely yeah yeah

01:08:53   and like if the other people in the

01:08:55   other groups I'm sure they don't even

01:08:56   care about this and I'm sure they're not

01:08:57   kind of like tweek you know I'll look

01:08:59   I'm against some nobody

01:09:00   I don't even know what's happening and

01:09:02   that's fine and you know they deserve to

01:09:03   win because they're big famous popular

01:09:05   people and this is just a popularity

01:09:06   contest but this guy riled me a bit and

01:09:09   so it has brought out a little bit of my

01:09:11   competitive streak so I was saying to

01:09:13   people come on you know help me out so

01:09:15   when a big protective uncle gray weighed

01:09:16   in and said let's crush this going to

01:09:18   the grave I did feel like thanks man one

01:09:24   of my favorite things I saw today a

01:09:25   friend of ours Logan from who works for

01:09:28   Ted ed and call me Ishmael

01:09:29   of course he saw what was going on and

01:09:31   he sent out a small message to some of

01:09:33   his friends on slack and not only do I

01:09:35   like that he was helping me out I also

01:09:37   loved how he described the competition

01:09:39   he wrote our pal Brady Haran from purely

01:09:41   videos in hello internet etc has

01:09:43   advanced to round four of the radio

01:09:45   turns radio and quad cast Championships

01:09:47   and then he wrote the contest is

01:09:49   basically the Grammy Awards meets human

01:09:51   of the year makes Twitter polls but

01:09:54   bigger cast your vote here so I don't

01:10:01   know what's gonna happen I don't know

01:10:02   what's gonna happen but like I kind of

01:10:04   wouldn't mind flying the flag for group

01:10:07   D now just because of this but we'll see

01:10:09   it's gonna be a long day and a half if

01:10:11   we're gonna do it but I think we're

01:10:13   gonna win but it's totally right that

01:10:15   this does this does touch on this weird

01:10:18   I don't even know how to put it but

01:10:20   there is like this weird still dismissal

01:10:23   stroke antagonism between old media like

01:10:27   toward new media and particularly in the

01:10:30   personalities and I don't know I feel

01:10:33   like there's something that has really

01:10:34   shifted here because I remember you and

01:10:37   I a few years ago we used to have

01:10:39   conversations about internet fame versus

01:10:42   what I used to call real fame I was like

01:10:46   oh there's real famous people and

01:10:48   there's internet famous people yeah and

01:10:50   while I do think that there are still

01:10:53   important differences between those two

01:10:56   levels and in terms of things like pure

01:10:59   name wreck

01:11:01   mission for example yeah I feel like

01:11:03   with the with the changes that have

01:11:05   happened over the past few years I feel

01:11:06   like something has switched and now the

01:11:08   now like internet fame feels more like

01:11:11   the real Fame and old media or like

01:11:16   movie or TV people they're famous in a

01:11:20   way that is more widely recognizable but

01:11:23   just somehow feels less real to me than

01:11:26   internet fame I simply mean this in the

01:11:29   way like when I think of the creators

01:11:30   that I follow the people who are famous

01:11:32   to me because I follow the work that

01:11:35   they do

01:11:36   yeah when I say it's more real I have

01:11:38   this feeling like I have some better

01:11:40   sense of who those people are and

01:11:44   there's something that just feels very

01:11:47   produced and artificial about old media

01:11:51   creations and of course sometimes that's

01:11:53   what you want like you want a movie to

01:11:54   be an artificially created thing but I

01:11:57   just I feel like there's something that

01:11:58   has switched in my mind about these two

01:12:01   things and I would never I would never

01:12:03   use that phrase any more like real Fame

01:12:05   to describe someone who is in movies

01:12:08   it's just like internet fame now feels

01:12:11   more real or it may be it's like it's

01:12:13   more close is a better word to describe

01:12:16   it I don't know it's just but it's like

01:12:19   partly because I feel like the switch

01:12:20   has happened in my mind I feel more

01:12:22   riled when I see old media people be

01:12:25   like casually dismissive of a thing and

01:12:29   especially even like the incredibly

01:12:31   broad audience of YouTube channels and

01:12:35   podcasts it's it's like on the Internet

01:12:37   you don't know who you're necessarily

01:12:39   messing with when it's at like another

01:12:41   internet creator because it's sometimes

01:12:43   harder to find out like what our viewer

01:12:45   listenership numbers so yeah it's just

01:12:47   it just bothered me it really did bother

01:12:49   me that tweeted riled me up well I've

01:12:51   appreciated your support because I have

01:12:53   no delusion that you that big popper

01:12:55   weighing into the Twitter debate has

01:12:57   certainly upped the ante someone I have

01:13:00   to say though I don't entirely agree

01:13:01   with what you said about the internet

01:13:03   fame and I I don't think I'm completely

01:13:06   on board with you like tell me what you

01:13:08   mean well certainly going to this most

01:13:11   recent VidCon because this was the first

01:13:13   time I've been to VidCon since epoch

01:13:15   oh god of course I feel my monster that

01:13:17   it is yes I keep forgetting that this

01:13:19   was your first VidCon yeah okay I went

01:13:21   to like the second one when it was a bit

01:13:22   more low-key but this was my first one

01:13:24   where it was like yeah and certainly

01:13:26   saying that like hysteria around teenage

01:13:29   boy is being chased latter the Beatles

01:13:31   was eye-opening for me and all this and

01:13:33   all the screaming and stuff was

01:13:34   something to behold yes don't think the

01:13:37   world is a good way to put it yeah but I

01:13:39   still feel like internet fame internet

01:13:43   notoriety or whatever you want to call

01:13:44   it is a step down like it is lower and

01:13:48   it's fragmented across so many people

01:13:50   now so it's diluted basically it's like

01:13:53   more dilute Fame but what I think is

01:13:55   happening is like you know the old radio

01:13:58   presenters I think this is more like a

01:14:00   backlash to because certainly the last

01:14:03   six months or so podcasts have like

01:14:05   exploded like it's just become massive

01:14:07   now and radio people must be seeing this

01:14:10   like they must be starting to think I

01:14:12   hang on this is our Netflix this is our

01:14:14   YouTube this is the thing that's gonna

01:14:15   come and start hitting us hard exactly

01:14:18   yeah so I imagine there's like a lot of

01:14:19   hostility towards podcasts and I don't

01:14:23   think like podcasters are going to

01:14:24   become the new radio DJs because there's

01:14:27   too many of us like there's too many of

01:14:28   us to keep in your head like you're not

01:14:30   going to become the old radio stars of

01:14:33   the past but what's going to happen is

01:14:35   the radio stars are just gonna like fade

01:14:36   away you know the podcasts are gonna

01:14:39   kill the radio star and people like this

01:14:43   so you know I'm gonna sort of fade away

01:14:44   and the recognition and the attention of

01:14:48   people who consume audio is going to be

01:14:50   just spread much much thinner I still

01:14:53   don't think of you know people like you

01:14:55   and I as like famous people we're just

01:14:59   like you know people that are sharing a

01:15:01   portion of this new way that people can

01:15:04   give their attention there's many things

01:15:06   in there but I couldn't help but look up

01:15:08   what radio program Steve Allen hosts

01:15:11   yeah and find what the listenership

01:15:13   numbers are right and hello Internet has

01:15:17   more listeners than his radio program

01:15:19   does right it's just like it's an

01:15:21   interesting thing just to see this

01:15:22   immediate comparison and it's like yeah

01:15:25   I agree with you that podcasts

01:15:28   dilute radio the thing that's happening

01:15:32   here is is like a lot of radio stuff has

01:15:36   to be broader because you're trying to

01:15:40   broadcast it to everybody in a country

01:15:43   mmm like hello internet is not a podcast

01:15:46   that I feel like oh is this podcast for

01:15:49   everyone in the world like what but

01:15:50   hello Internet make a great national

01:15:52   broadcast like of course it wouldn't

01:15:54   right it's not a thing that you would

01:15:56   put on a national radio and be like hey

01:15:57   guess what for an hour and a half we're

01:16:00   gonna have these two guys talking about

01:16:03   a trip to Greece and fish eating your

01:16:05   feets right this is like it's just it's

01:16:07   not something that you're going to do

01:16:08   yeah but for the people who like it they

01:16:14   really like it and I know like I feel

01:16:16   that way about all the podcast and I

01:16:17   listen to like I listen to all sorts of

01:16:19   podcast none of which would make any

01:16:20   kind of sense as a national broadcast

01:16:22   but for the people who like those shows

01:16:25   like they like them much more than they

01:16:27   like something that's produced for

01:16:29   everyone so I see that narrower content

01:16:34   is almost always going to win out over

01:16:36   something that is produced for a general

01:16:39   audience and the thing that has just

01:16:41   happened is I feel like podcasting has

01:16:43   really gotten over some kind of hump

01:16:46   where now it's easy enough for regular

01:16:48   people to subscribe and listen to

01:16:50   podcasts and so there's a big influx of

01:16:53   audience who are finding the things that

01:16:56   they really like that really suit their

01:16:59   personality and their tastes and their

01:17:01   sense of humor and is like yeah if I was

01:17:03   working in radio of course I'd be

01:17:05   worried because the listeners ship

01:17:08   numbers that you have from something

01:17:10   like radio it's just like traditional

01:17:12   broadcast TV used to be but of course

01:17:14   everybody used to watch a few shows

01:17:16   because there was no choice whatsoever

01:17:18   but in in the modern world like you have

01:17:21   infinite amount of choice which means if

01:17:23   you can find something that you like you

01:17:24   probably really like that thing and you

01:17:27   can fill your life up with a bunch of

01:17:29   stuff that you really like as opposed to

01:17:31   something that you just kind of like so

01:17:34   yeah if I was radio I'd be worried I

01:17:36   just went and looked at Steve Allen's

01:17:37   Twitter and an hour ago he's just

01:17:39   tweeted vote vote vote

01:17:42   in capital letters I'm gonna retweet

01:17:46   that to say I shared the sentiment

01:17:48   retweet that I have to retweet that too

01:17:50   yeah well none like him I'm gonna

01:17:52   include the link to the place where you

01:17:54   vote well yeah because you know how the

01:17:56   internet works yeah of course all right

01:17:58   where is he yeah there he is Steve Allen

01:18:01   live update vote vote vote all right

01:18:04   yeah let's do this

01:18:05   let me add a comment yep what do you

01:18:09   guys think so the same thing I'm gonna

01:18:12   say couldn't agree more dr. Brady Haran

01:18:17   for the wind exclamation mark did you

01:18:30   put the link yeah yeah I'm free the link

01:18:32   in there we go great all right great

01:18:45   you've gotta stay on the ball who's

01:18:47   working for me you gotta see this arena

01:18:48   oh yeah man I am I am here 110 percent

01:18:52   buddy I'm here for you until the bitter

01:18:55   bitter end and it's a great day only

01:18:58   four great day oh yeah yes I don't care

01:19:01   after this round whatever right but this

01:19:03   is like cuz I feel a little big I feel a

01:19:06   little bit guilty about like the

01:19:07   technological expertise of the Tim's

01:19:09   don't feel guilty about it at all

01:19:11   because as far as I'm concerned this is

01:19:12   exactly what the Radio Times wanted they

01:19:14   wanted a gigantic click machine they

01:19:16   left all the doors wide open for every

01:19:18   possible way that you could click so as

01:19:20   far as I'm concerned Radio Times is

01:19:22   getting exactly what they wanted they'll

01:19:24   be able to show their advertisers we had

01:19:26   10 billion page views over the weekend

01:19:29   right yeah they'll be able to sell that

01:19:31   right along so far as I'm concerned

01:19:34   everybody wins

01:19:35   except Steve Allen hello listeners do

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01:19:53   Disney you know all the tricks

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01:19:58   write guide to share that knowledge with

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01:20:03   but where would you get started if you

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01:21:35   this show quick finish on 5,000 whoo

01:21:39   I've been at the gym lately trying to

01:21:41   get back on the horse again after

01:21:43   falling off numerous times and I was

01:21:47   having a discussion with my trainer the

01:21:48   other day and it brought up something

01:21:50   that I was curious to ask you and that

01:21:53   is when you are doing like an exercise

01:21:56   that involves counting like ten reps or

01:21:59   twelve of them will do 20 of that do you

01:22:02   count up or count down

01:22:08   it's really interesting that you ask

01:22:10   that Brady right because I have always

01:22:13   counted up right but I have I don't know

01:22:18   maybe a month ago I decided that that

01:22:21   was the wrong way to do it yeah I should

01:22:23   switch to counting down this seems like

01:22:27   the better way to do it because it feels

01:22:30   like more finality and more motivation

01:22:34   to get to the end because then you're

01:22:36   just keeping in your mind the number

01:22:38   that's counting down you're not keeping

01:22:39   in mind two things like counting up and

01:22:41   the target that you're counting to you

01:22:42   right you're a smart boy can you know

01:22:44   hold that if not much information in

01:22:46   your head it's not about that it's just

01:22:47   about simplification it seems like this

01:22:49   is the better way to do it it's not it's

01:22:51   not of course Brady I can hold two

01:22:52   pieces of information in my head at once

01:22:53   but if I can hold just one piece of

01:22:56   information in my head I would prefer to

01:22:58   do that however I have found this is

01:23:03   almost impossible to do

01:23:05   I cannot mentally retrain myself to

01:23:09   count down versus counting up like I

01:23:12   keep mine constantly keep forgetting to

01:23:15   do it or I find my internal count

01:23:19   subroutine just wants to count up it

01:23:21   just does is not designed to count in

01:23:24   the opposite way so in my attempts to

01:23:26   make something mentally simpler I have

01:23:29   found that I have made it mentally

01:23:31   impossible to do like I just cannot

01:23:33   convince my brain to count down which

01:23:37   way do you do it I definitely count up

01:23:40   mm-hmm

01:23:41   I prefer that too I haven't thought

01:23:43   about the reasons but I'm gonna I'm

01:23:44   about to speculate on it on the fly but

01:23:47   I'm so into counting up that if my

01:23:49   trainer counts down like towards the end

01:23:51   like he used to go okay three two like

01:23:54   so that's telling a philosophy I like

01:23:56   tell him to stop I don't like it it just

01:23:58   confuses me so he now knows not to speak

01:24:01   he just says do do 10 silence no we talk

01:24:06   a lot but just not to count mm-hm so

01:24:08   like I count up and I don't like him to

01:24:11   count with me event I think the reason I

01:24:14   might like counting up is I like the

01:24:16   idea that the thing I'm doing is growing

01:24:18   like

01:24:19   a bank account growing or your scholar's

01:24:22   wallboard growing like the numbers

01:24:23   getting bigger and I'm achieving

01:24:24   something look look now I've done five

01:24:27   now done six the numbers getting bigger

01:24:28   that's how strong and powerful I must be

01:24:30   whereas if the if the number was

01:24:32   diminishing I'd feel like I was just

01:24:34   like hmm that's all going away I think

01:24:37   that's why the count up happens because

01:24:39   at least in my experience when you first

01:24:41   tried to do any kind of exercise and you

01:24:44   realize oh my arms are weak noodley

01:24:47   appendages that could be nothing it's

01:24:50   like oh wow lifting a bar above my head

01:24:52   once this feels like a great

01:24:53   accomplishment and then being able to do

01:24:55   it twice that's why you start counting

01:24:58   up I think that's why I started counting

01:24:59   up without even thinking about it is you

01:25:01   want to mark all of those achievements

01:25:04   yeah I just think further along in the

01:25:06   exercise routine now that I can do like

01:25:09   five sets of five of an exercise it

01:25:12   feels like the counting down is is the

01:25:14   more correct way to do it but yeah I

01:25:15   totally get you want to mark your

01:25:17   achievements especially in the beginning

01:25:20   when you were making very poor progress

01:25:22   yeah another thing we were talking about

01:25:26   was how much people like to know like

01:25:30   for example when some people doing like

01:25:32   the planks and things are that way you

01:25:33   time it some of his clients don't like

01:25:36   to be told the time at all they just

01:25:37   want to be told at the end all right

01:25:39   stop you learn the linen weaved other

01:25:41   ones like tonight okay it's 5 seconds 10

01:25:43   seconds 15 seconds and another thing he

01:25:46   said was some people don't want to know

01:25:49   how much weights been put on the bar

01:25:50   like he'll put the things on there and

01:25:51   say okay we're gonna do 10 reps you know

01:25:53   and he wouldn't even tell them what the

01:25:54   weight is and other people are really

01:25:55   into it they want to know exactly what

01:25:57   they're lifting and hours at our counts

01:25:59   45 is okay right I say what about you I

01:26:02   imagine you you quite like the

01:26:04   information I would imagine when I was

01:26:05   working in a very limited way with my

01:26:08   trainer I found all of these additional

01:26:10   things I just didn't I didn't like I

01:26:12   didn't like any of these extra exercises

01:26:14   I felt like I'm here to do a very simple

01:26:16   and very narrow thing so I want to make

01:26:19   sure that I'm not hurting myself on the

01:26:21   exercises that I'm doing yeah like my

01:26:23   trainer was trying to sell me on a bunch

01:26:25   of like hey let's do these routines

01:26:27   because you know we want to complicate

01:26:30   to profit and have you here all the time

01:26:32   right

01:26:33   me feeling like I want to extract

01:26:34   knowledge from you and then be done with

01:26:36   you right was was my my feeling of how

01:26:38   this interaction should go I'll just say

01:26:41   that I I felt very aware that on the

01:26:43   times that my trainer was getting me to

01:26:45   do like the routines that he wanted to

01:26:47   do I felt like there were always like

01:26:49   tricks being pulled like I don't think

01:26:50   you're reporting the amount of time or

01:26:52   weight accurately to me I think you're

01:26:54   reporting it in a way that makes me feel

01:26:56   better about what I'm accomplishing and

01:26:58   I don't need any of these tricks I don't

01:27:00   want to know that that's my feeling

01:27:02   about it I think you're a little bit too

01:27:03   distrustful there but yeah

01:27:05   oh yeah you don't you don't think any

01:27:07   trainers would pull tricks to make you

01:27:08   feel better about cutting down the

01:27:10   seconds a little bit so you feel like

01:27:11   you accomplished something

01:27:12   I think trainers would do that well

01:27:14   maybe they do that they certainly try to

01:27:16   boost your confidence and encourage you

01:27:17   but I don't think that's like a bad

01:27:19   thing but I mean yeah I guess I'd go to

01:27:23   a trainer for a different reason to you

01:27:24   I mean of course I could just go and do

01:27:25   all the exercises myself but the problem

01:27:27   is I won't do it unless I have like an

01:27:29   appointment and someone making me do it

01:27:30   for an hour a if I don't have an

01:27:32   appointment I probably won't go and if I

01:27:34   do go I'll just watch cricket on the TV

01:27:36   and skive off after 15 minutes and get a

01:27:38   Chinese on the way home basically think

01:27:43   of there was this gym my parents old

01:27:46   place in North Carolina that had a bagel

01:27:50   shop in the gym right at the entry I

01:27:54   used to wonder like I bet there's a a

01:27:57   non-trivial number of people who say I'm

01:28:00   going to the gym they go in they get a

01:28:02   nice breakfast bagel and orange juice

01:28:04   jump on it for a while and then just go

01:28:07   home I bet that bagel shop tat up did a

01:28:09   pretty good profit of people just

01:28:10   turning around and feeling like well I

01:28:12   tried I went to the gym I didn't make it

01:28:15   inside of course but I made it to this

01:28:18   suspiciously placed bagel shop which is

01:28:20   right at the entry another thing I do is

01:28:23   if I'm doing an exercise that's quite

01:28:24   difficult and I know I'm gonna be really

01:28:26   pushing it to get to the end like he

01:28:28   says like I do 12 reps of this and it's

01:28:30   something really heavy I will sometimes

01:28:32   break it into two lots of six in my head

01:28:34   I'll count up to six and then I'll do

01:28:36   another six mm-hmm I guess it's just

01:28:38   making things achievable yeah it's like

01:28:42   any goal Brady you got to break it down

01:28:44   into

01:28:45   achieve Abul parts because 12:12 the

01:28:48   number too big for any mortal but two

01:28:51   sets of six that might just be

01:28:52   accomplishable or another thing is that

01:28:54   makes me realize how psychological it is

01:28:56   is how often the number he sets is my

01:28:58   breaking point

01:29:00   like okay you have to do seven at this

01:29:02   really high way and the seventh one is

01:29:04   like oh well I couldn't have done eight

01:29:06   it would have been physically impossible

01:29:07   that was my absolute limit but if he'd

01:29:09   said to do eight it would have been the

01:29:11   same thing but your body just like knows

01:29:13   the finish line and like just falls over

01:29:15   the finish line each time yeah yeah I

01:29:17   want to be clear to any any Tim's who

01:29:19   are listening who want to get on the

01:29:21   fitter Tron lifestyle even though I have

01:29:23   a particularly weird relationship with

01:29:26   my trainer that was also extremely

01:29:28   temporary I am again the first to

01:29:30   acknowledge that if you want to do this

01:29:32   kind of stuff like I highly recommend

01:29:33   that you get a trainer because I was

01:29:36   super aware of that effect to that the

01:29:39   number he would mention would be the

01:29:40   breaking point but it would also very

01:29:44   often be further than I I would have

01:29:46   been able to do if it was just me in the

01:29:47   gym if it was just me thinking like oh

01:29:50   instead of doing five reps I'm gonna try

01:29:52   to do seven like I would never have been

01:29:53   able to do seven but when he says do

01:29:55   seven there is also that effect of like

01:29:58   you're with another person and you want

01:30:00   to try to do the thing so it's like it

01:30:02   is definitely way more effective to have

01:30:03   the person there but yeah I also found

01:30:06   that effect very noticeable and very

01:30:09   funny that I could always just barely

01:30:12   achieve the thing that the trainer had

01:30:14   said and I don't think it's because

01:30:17   trainers are preternatural and their

01:30:21   ability to predict exactly what your

01:30:22   breaking point is I think there's

01:30:24   something psychological about pushing

01:30:26   yourself toward a limit that another

01:30:29   person has specified what's your finish

01:30:31   on five thousand set up at the moment

01:30:32   what are you doing oh man so okay so

01:30:37   here's the thing here's the thing that I

01:30:38   find a little depressing I've been in

01:30:40   America for six weeks very very long

01:30:43   time America as we know streets are

01:30:46   paved with donuts mm-hmm but more than

01:30:49   that one of the problems that I have

01:30:52   with traveling is that okay so in my

01:30:55   regular routine I use freeway

01:30:59   to do like bench presses and squats and

01:31:01   this kind of stuff like this again very

01:31:02   very low weights like I'm not doing

01:31:04   anything impressive but I have found for

01:31:07   me those are the exercises that I stick

01:31:08   with the most that also have the most

01:31:11   obvious impact for the minimum amount of

01:31:14   time that I can possibly put in don't

01:31:16   say the weights are low gray I always

01:31:17   think it makes you sound like an awesome

01:31:19   gorilla when you say I had to first seek

01:31:20   professional advice to make sure I

01:31:22   wasn't hurting myself it makes it sound

01:31:23   like you're pulling planes with your

01:31:25   teeth and lifting up cars with your bare

01:31:27   hands yeah but that's exactly why I want

01:31:29   to specify two people the weights are

01:31:31   low because when they see my noodley

01:31:33   body in person it's like wait a minute I

01:31:35   thought you lifted weights and like yes

01:31:36   I do

01:31:36   they're very sad oh I thought maybe you

01:31:38   were gonna say yeah I'm saying the

01:31:39   weights are low just for other people's

01:31:41   safety when in fact I'm just lifting

01:31:42   incredible amounts that would kill a

01:31:44   normal human like it's almost like a

01:31:46   public safety reason that you're saying

01:31:48   you live low weights when in fact you

01:31:50   are lifting cars I wish that was the

01:31:52   case but so I build up the weight very

01:31:54   slowly over time because I'm just there

01:31:56   in the gym myself so I want to be

01:31:58   cautious again about injuring myself and

01:32:00   so like my progression is

01:32:01   extraordinarily slow but then what

01:32:03   happens is over the summer it's way

01:32:07   harder to get access while traveling to

01:32:11   the kind of equipment that I'm normally

01:32:13   using and so for six weeks I've been

01:32:16   trying to exercise using crappy gym

01:32:19   equipment essentially and you know

01:32:22   you're going to get the machines at best

01:32:24   to try to replicate some of the

01:32:26   exercises that you do and I felt like I

01:32:28   thought over the summer I was doing a

01:32:31   pretty good job of probably maintaining

01:32:34   my level of strength using resistance

01:32:36   machines but just just two days ago

01:32:40   after having finally come back from

01:32:43   America and getting into my regular gym

01:32:45   and getting back to the regular

01:32:46   equipment I discovered that I was

01:32:48   basically starting again from zero

01:32:50   because those machines in the gym that

01:32:54   just do one motion if you just don't

01:32:56   realize how much they're helping you in

01:33:01   the way that you don't have to use all

01:33:03   kinds of stabilizing muscles you don't

01:33:05   have to use any other part of your body

01:33:08   it's like oh I'm doing a bench press on

01:33:09   this machine it's like I'm literally

01:33:11   exercising too

01:33:12   muscles exactly and nothing else what's

01:33:15   the benefit of those machines then is it

01:33:17   the fact that you can really target a

01:33:19   muscle la la I think the benefit of

01:33:21   those machines is that it's less likely

01:33:22   that people are going to injure

01:33:23   themselves in a gym and so the insurance

01:33:25   costs are lower like I think okay if I

01:33:28   had to wager something I would wager

01:33:29   that's why they're there oh so if I went

01:33:32   to a gym and all their head was free

01:33:34   weights I would think what am I paying

01:33:35   for just a whole bunch of lumps of metal

01:33:36   right have you not spent anything you

01:33:41   know what I would believe that I would

01:33:43   believe that that's an effect that

01:33:44   people want to see a bunch of equipment

01:33:46   because I feel actually like I've even

01:33:49   kind of fallen for that because again in

01:33:50   America when I've gone into gyms I feel

01:33:53   like I'm Way more impressed by the gyms

01:33:55   that have like a ton of equipment hmm

01:33:57   even though I'm trying to walk to the

01:33:59   very back of the gym to find the one

01:34:01   free weight area and I want to skip all

01:34:03   the rest of it but I still feel like I'm

01:34:04   psychologically influenced by the

01:34:06   existence of all of those machines even

01:34:08   though I don't necessarily think that

01:34:10   they're super beneficial for me my

01:34:12   feeling is like I'm a little bit

01:34:14   disappointed because I thought strength

01:34:16   wise I had done a much better job of

01:34:18   maintaining but I'm essentially starting

01:34:21   over again from zero with the actual

01:34:23   free weights because this is like oh man

01:34:26   I am dramatically overestimated where I

01:34:28   could continue from and so I'm building

01:34:30   it back up but I don't mind because

01:34:32   again I feel like the travelling was

01:34:35   necessary and just like we're always

01:34:37   saying with the fit of Tron lifestyle I

01:34:39   feel like it's all about just getting

01:34:41   back on all the time like as long as you

01:34:43   as long as you're willing to continually

01:34:45   get back on that's what really matters

01:34:47   as opposed to any absolute position at

01:34:49   any point in time do you get affected by

01:34:52   the presence and the makeup and the

01:34:55   demographics and the number of other

01:34:56   people who are in the gym when you go

01:34:58   like will you go into the free weights

01:35:00   section and if there's like a bunch of

01:35:01   huge bodybuilders doing awesome things

01:35:03   will you just like sneak away because

01:35:05   you're a bit embarrassed to be noodle

01:35:07   man or are you completely oblivious to

01:35:09   who's there and what who's doing what my

01:35:11   only care is how many people are in the

01:35:13   gym in terms of can I get access to the

01:35:15   equipment right so I have strategically

01:35:17   figured out the times when the fewest

01:35:19   people are in the gym and I arrange my

01:35:21   whole schedule around that right because

01:35:23   it's like an immovable externality in my

01:35:26   life

01:35:26   but the thing I found really interesting

01:35:28   and again I want to specify to anybody

01:35:30   who's thinking of going to the gym is I

01:35:32   have found the super muscley guys

01:35:36   nothing but the nicest guys in the world

01:35:38   at least at least in my gym like it's

01:35:40   not a lot of interaction but on

01:35:42   occasions that I've had interactions

01:35:43   it's always just like oh yeah they're

01:35:45   super happy to see other people in the

01:35:47   gym exercising like always very nice so

01:35:50   I've never felt intimidated by any of

01:35:52   those people if anything I always feel

01:35:53   just super impressed because I have a

01:35:56   much better sense now of how much work

01:36:01   and effort that really represents in a

01:36:04   way that I never had before I think I

01:36:08   just have a much better sense for when I

01:36:09   see a guy who's really built up his body

01:36:11   it's like that is a lot of work two

01:36:14   thumbs up to you dude fair enough

01:36:16   are you intimidated by them Brady I am

01:36:18   affected by how many people are in the

01:36:20   gym and I don't like making a spectacle

01:36:23   of myself so you don't throw the the

01:36:24   weights down on the floor and you go

01:36:26   hard as they make a big bashing sound

01:36:29   yeah and also like even with my trainer

01:36:30   he's now learnt like if I'm doing

01:36:33   something that is likely to turn

01:36:35   people's heads just because it involves

01:36:37   eye catching motion or noise I want to

01:36:42   do that like hidden away like if I'm

01:36:43   doing something as simple as box jumps I

01:36:45   don't want to do that out in the middle

01:36:47   of the gym in a public area he knows I

01:36:49   just don't like yeah that kind of stuff

01:36:51   I would hate I would hate to do yeah I'm

01:36:53   with there are certain exercises I won't

01:36:55   do like I won't do like you know when

01:36:57   you could hold weights at your side and

01:36:59   you do lunges but you like walk across

01:37:02   the gym oh yes no no I won't know that

01:37:04   I'll do lunges on the spot but I'm not

01:37:06   going to be that guy walking across the

01:37:08   gym doing lunges like down the aisle in

01:37:10   front of everyone and stuff I'm like no

01:37:11   I don't want to be looked at I'm not

01:37:14   quite sure I obviously I'm not a shy

01:37:15   person but I don't know at the gym I

01:37:18   don't like being a spectacle I just want

01:37:20   to be in my corner do my stuff yeah yeah

01:37:22   I'd veto a spectacle exercises as well

01:37:26   can I just do a little bit of sports

01:37:28   Ball corner so I just thought I'd sneak

01:37:33   that in it's a question that immediately

01:37:37   rolls into the start of sports ball

01:37:39   corner

01:37:40   it's really a question its but I of

01:37:44   course Brady of course go ahead with

01:37:46   sports ball corner because it starts

01:37:47   with a little little sports spoke on a

01:37:50   sequel that I thought you would

01:37:51   appreciate ooh

01:37:52   because we talked about this golfer who

01:37:55   lost a big tournament because she had

01:37:57   marked her bowl incorrectly on the green

01:38:00   and put it back like a centimeter in the

01:38:02   wrong place and she got this huge

01:38:04   draconian penalty and it cost her an

01:38:06   entire tournament and I thought that was

01:38:07   really unfair right right

01:38:09   as a result they actually changed some

01:38:12   of the guidelines in golf to give people

01:38:14   running tournaments a bit of discretion

01:38:16   when that happens

01:38:17   lo and behold there was another big

01:38:19   tournament recently that was one there

01:38:22   was the Irish Open this was a men's to

01:38:24   on him at this time the exact same thing

01:38:26   happened there was a slight miss placing

01:38:28   of a bowl that was discovered very minor

01:38:30   I don't it doesn't affect the results

01:38:32   for my opinion and I think sanity

01:38:34   prevailed and he wasn't penalized and he

01:38:37   won the tournament okay he won the

01:38:39   torn-up by six shots anyway but but

01:38:41   anyway another golfer took to Twitter to

01:38:44   complain about this you know what I

01:38:46   could describe as a very gray like

01:38:47   response that I thought you would

01:38:48   appreciate

01:38:49   Jimmy Walker replied to the European

01:38:52   Golf Tour

01:38:53   nice enforcement of the rules of golf

01:38:55   and then he followed up with a second

01:38:58   tweet saying if we don't have rules then

01:39:00   we have nothing and that desmet of

01:39:03   grayness to me I thought I thought you

01:39:06   would appreciate that I do I mean the

01:39:08   rules are civilization that's that's how

01:39:10   everything holds together I agree with

01:39:11   that but from your description it sounds

01:39:14   like discretion was built into the rules

01:39:16   so I'm not I'm not sure that this is a

01:39:18   case where that's a violation how can

01:39:20   you have like discretion in rules though

01:39:22   like basically what's happening is you

01:39:24   have now have flexible rows where it

01:39:25   could be enforced or not enforced

01:39:27   depending on a human decision don't get

01:39:29   me wrong I don't like the discretion

01:39:31   right like if I was in charge of any

01:39:32   kind of sports body I would work to

01:39:34   remove the discretion as much as

01:39:37   possible in every step in every way but

01:39:39   nonetheless what I'm what I'm saying is

01:39:42   if the rules as currently written have a

01:39:45   place where there is room for human

01:39:47   discretion the players are operating

01:39:50   within those rules yeah

01:39:52   that is what is happening but there's a

01:39:54   meta question here about should you have

01:39:56   rules where there are human discretion

01:39:57   and I think you end up having

01:40:00   essentially human discretion results

01:40:02   when there's no technological solution

01:40:04   and so like before you have replay

01:40:06   cameras you have to have umpires making

01:40:09   decisions on the spot because otherwise

01:40:10   the game would take a thousand hours to

01:40:12   play out so then that's what I mean it's

01:40:15   like I'm fine with it if it's written

01:40:17   into the rules but on a meta level we

01:40:20   should work overtime to reduce the human

01:40:22   discretion in sports games because it's

01:40:25   just like it it feels like ultimately a

01:40:27   human discretion call has to have some

01:40:29   element of unfairness because it depends

01:40:32   on so many things happening at that

01:40:33   exact instant I mean a statement from

01:40:36   the people who make the rules of golf

01:40:38   and oversee golf is quite telling but

01:40:40   also could lead to problems it says

01:40:42   players should not be held to the degree

01:40:45   of precision that can sometimes be

01:40:47   provided by video technology and like on

01:40:50   the face of it that seems quite a

01:40:51   reasonable statement you know no I don't

01:40:53   ok I don't agree with that at all that

01:40:55   reasonable in the slightest no no that's

01:40:57   a rule that's rejecting the available

01:40:59   technology I don't like that one tiny

01:41:00   bit no but like basically the context of

01:41:03   this is though it's not saying you know

01:41:05   who crossed the line first in a race

01:41:08   let's look at the video to know once and

01:41:09   for all this is about things like

01:41:11   replacing your bowl you know you pick up

01:41:12   the ball and like wipe the grass off it

01:41:14   can you put it back in the exact same

01:41:16   spot that you picked it up from like a

01:41:18   video will show actually it was half a

01:41:20   millimeter to the left of where you just

01:41:22   put it down players aren't robots they

01:41:23   can't do that

01:41:24   yeah ok physically can't do that I'll

01:41:26   agree with that one that seems fair but

01:41:28   here the technological limitation is the

01:41:30   human eye right we're conceding that the

01:41:33   resolution of the human eye and and

01:41:35   memory for exact placement has limits

01:41:37   so yeah I can go along with that that

01:41:39   seems okay to me but then it does open

01:41:40   this blurry line like ok how much can

01:41:43   you be wrong by can you be wrong by 3

01:41:45   millimeters can you be wrong by 5

01:41:47   millimeters or can you just be wrong by

01:41:49   whatever Jeff the rules man says on the

01:41:51   day anyway what this is making me think

01:41:55   of is I may have told this before but

01:41:57   ages and ages ago when I was merely

01:41:59   training to be a teacher there was this

01:42:02   big list of boxes that we need to tick

01:42:04   and I mean quite literally

01:42:06   several hundred there was either like

01:42:08   things you need to do to demonstrate

01:42:10   evidence for your becoming a teacher

01:42:11   mm-hmm and I'll never forget this

01:42:13   conversation that I had with my advisor

01:42:15   that essentially boiled down to I was

01:42:17   like okay how many of these boxes do I

01:42:20   need to tick

01:42:21   she was says it would be great if you

01:42:23   could take all of the boxes that's like

01:42:25   okay yes I understand it would be great

01:42:27   if I could take all of the boxes but

01:42:29   what's the minimum number of boxes I

01:42:32   could tick and you would still certify

01:42:34   me as a teacher right it's like she she

01:42:36   just would not give me an answer about

01:42:37   that but it's like of course you want to

01:42:41   know like what is the biggest boundary

01:42:43   that I can push and yes I can

01:42:44   immediately see that next year if the

01:42:47   rule is the ball can be placed within

01:42:50   the range of the human ability to

01:42:52   determine what is the exact same spot I

01:42:55   would be the guy who as a golfer who'd

01:42:57   be saying the same thing like okay

01:42:59   obviously I can't put it down the exact

01:43:01   same spot but if I put it down a

01:43:03   centimeter away is that still a good

01:43:05   right and like they're not gonna want to

01:43:06   say yeah

01:43:07   whatever they're thinking in there and

01:43:09   that would become the new norm Yeah

01:43:10   right exactly it was like so I can move

01:43:12   the ball a centimeter each time is that

01:43:14   what you're saying and they're like no

01:43:15   no you can't do it on purpose is like no

01:43:17   of course not on purpose but like

01:43:19   there's gotta be some number so it just

01:43:22   it feels like the same situation again

01:43:23   well great I enjoy your perspective on

01:43:26   sporting controversies and incidents I'm

01:43:29   glad you do there was one that came up

01:43:31   earlier this year though I also I'm just

01:43:32   dying to hear your opinion on and it

01:43:35   happened so long ago that I thought I'd

01:43:37   kind of missed my opportunity to ask you

01:43:38   about it but it came up again in the

01:43:40   news recently because of like ongoing

01:43:42   action and it gives me a second bite of

01:43:44   the cherry so I want to tell you about

01:43:46   this other story that happened and just

01:43:48   to get your perspective because it

01:43:49   always illuminates me so what happened

01:43:54   was at the start of this year there was

01:43:56   a football match in the UK a soccer

01:43:58   match and I won't go into the reasons

01:44:00   why but there's one or two knockout

01:44:02   tournaments in the UK we're really

01:44:05   really lowly teams that bordering on

01:44:08   amateur if not completely amateur get to

01:44:10   play against the big professional teams

01:44:12   in the early rounds and it's like it's

01:44:14   always a big treat for them they hardly

01:44:16   ever win if they win it becomes massive

01:44:17   but it's always a big occasion Oh

01:44:20   you know this lowly group of footballers

01:44:22   who are plumbers and carpenters and that

01:44:24   are playing against all the millionaire

01:44:26   superstars this week can they beat them

01:44:28   they normally get crushed sometimes

01:44:30   sometimes they went really anyway it's

01:44:33   always very romantic and the media gets

01:44:35   very carried away with it when these

01:44:36   random draws happen that allow this to

01:44:38   happen happened this year at the start

01:44:40   of the year this lowly team called

01:44:42   Sutton United got to play against the

01:44:44   millionaire superstars from Arsenal so

01:44:47   there was all this there are all these

01:44:49   profile pieces and media stories before

01:44:51   the game about all the players for

01:44:53   Sutton how they're all amateurs and how

01:44:55   they're all these you know just normal

01:44:56   chaps and they're getting to have their

01:44:57   big day in the Sun and the thing the

01:45:00   media really fell in love is was the

01:45:02   fact that Sutton United's goalkeeping

01:45:05   coach and also like their reserve

01:45:08   goalkeeper in a way like if their

01:45:09   goalkeeper got injured he was the guy

01:45:11   that would come on in an emergency was

01:45:14   this guy called Wayne Shaw and basically

01:45:17   he seems like a nice guy

01:45:19   but he's like very he's overweight he

01:45:23   doesn't he doesn't look like a sportsman

01:45:25   he's big he's a big fat guy and he's

01:45:27   like a character of the club and I think

01:45:29   he was also responsible for like you

01:45:30   know cleaning the toilets or locking the

01:45:32   gates and stuff you know he was like a

01:45:34   salt of the earth important guy for the

01:45:37   club that they all loved but he also

01:45:38   happened to be their reserve goalkeeper

01:45:39   in an emergency would he get to come on

01:45:42   and play if there was an injury you get

01:45:44   the picture but another thing that

01:45:47   happens in the UK around sport is the

01:45:49   betting markets the companies that take

01:45:52   bets love creating publicity for

01:45:54   themselves of course and one of them

01:45:57   started a betting market on whether or

01:45:59   not because this guy Wayne Shaw would be

01:46:01   sitting on the bench for the whole game

01:46:02   unless you had to play which was

01:46:04   unlikely while he was sitting on the

01:46:06   bench would this guy eat a pie a meat

01:46:09   pie because like the thing you do at a

01:46:11   football match if you're in the fan is

01:46:13   you eat these small meat pies which I

01:46:15   know I know they're not a big deal in

01:46:17   America these sort of handheld sized

01:46:19   pies full of mate but that's what you

01:46:21   ate at a cold football game in England

01:46:23   yeah only in a pie haha we'll give you

01:46:25   these odds that he will or he might and

01:46:27   they gave some ridiculous odds yeah I

01:46:28   think just to be clear for the Americans

01:46:30   like you need to understand that there's

01:46:31   like a small handheld

01:46:33   thing all right this is not like a like

01:46:35   a cream pie or a big fruit pie now it's

01:46:37   like yeah it's like a small half muffin

01:46:39   it's a it's a very small thing but it's

01:46:41   an unhealthy thing to it it's an

01:46:43   unhealthy things eat and the word pie is

01:46:45   just a funny word yeah and also pies are

01:46:48   traditionally associated with like

01:46:50   overweight people like yeah like a mean

01:46:53   chart that people do is you know who ate

01:46:55   all the pies who ate all the part as it

01:46:57   was you because you're overweight so pie

01:46:59   is that the stereotypical thing to say

01:47:00   it if that person will eat so anyway

01:47:04   towards the end of this game Arsenal won

01:47:06   the game as expected the goalkeeping guy

01:47:09   didn't have to come on because there was

01:47:11   no injury so he set on the bench the

01:47:12   whole game about 5-10 minutes before I

01:47:16   can tell you eight minutes before the

01:47:17   end of the game

01:47:18   this guy Wayne sure eats of pie say sup

01:47:22   someone passes in my pie is obviously

01:47:24   going along with the joke and there's

01:47:25   all these pictures and footage of him

01:47:27   eating a pie and for like the first few

01:47:30   hours it was really funny and it became

01:47:32   the big funny story of the game because

01:47:34   otherwise it was just a pretty boring

01:47:35   game a big famous team beat a lowly

01:47:38   little team but there's also a lot of

01:47:40   like controversy around betting on sport

01:47:43   literally in the UK and things being

01:47:45   rigged like you know if someone said you

01:47:48   know we're gonna win three nil and you

01:47:49   rigged the game to win three nil that

01:47:51   people could go to prison for that but

01:47:54   should there be a scandal about a guy

01:47:57   eating a pie like he knew this thing

01:47:59   existed these bets existed when he made

01:48:02   the decision to eat the pie he was like

01:48:04   affecting the outcome and apparently

01:48:06   some people won very large amounts of

01:48:08   money because he ate the pie no I'm

01:48:09   thinking I hope he bet on him eating a

01:48:12   pie right like I want this guy to be a

01:48:14   millionaire it would definitely be

01:48:16   illegal for him to it would be illegal

01:48:18   for him or people he was conspiring with

01:48:20   to rig a betting market lada anyway who

01:48:23   couldn't that's happen offshore like

01:48:24   this I feel like there's a way to get

01:48:26   this guy is pie money well you're quite

01:48:28   right I think some people believe maybe

01:48:30   he did conspire with people to make

01:48:31   money I don't know but in the end he got

01:48:34   in so much trouble from the football

01:48:36   authorities he had to resign this guy

01:48:39   that everyone at the club loves who

01:48:40   paints the Lions and locks the gates and

01:48:42   has loves the club with his heart and so

01:48:44   he had to resign he's like being

01:48:47   charged under football rules and he's in

01:48:49   a whole bunch of trouble it's called pi

01:48:51   gate it's this huge scandal that is like

01:48:54   rolling on and I don't know what to

01:48:57   think about it because if he didn't eat

01:48:58   the pie he would have been affecting the

01:49:00   marker as well once he knew this was

01:49:02   happening he had sole control over

01:49:05   whether he ate the pie or not it's not

01:49:07   like he was out on the field and could

01:49:08   you know didn't have total control over

01:49:10   whether a girl was caught or not he had

01:49:12   total control over whether he did or

01:49:14   didn't eat the pie yeah I don't know

01:49:17   what to think I want it I want you to

01:49:18   sort this out for me

01:49:19   well it just sounds like a big pile of

01:49:21   bullshit because what it sounds like

01:49:22   because first of all this whole

01:49:24   situation is hilarious so there's an

01:49:26   element of why don't we all just calm

01:49:28   the hell down everybody and second of

01:49:30   all you're right like as soon as the

01:49:32   betting market is created we're in

01:49:35   action triggers a betting results it's

01:49:38   like well it doesn't matter what he does

01:49:40   heats of pi he doesn't need to PI he

01:49:42   goes to the game he doesn't show up to

01:49:44   the game like all all of this now

01:49:46   affects bets one way or the other

01:49:49   yeah so what's a guy supposed to do and

01:49:51   I feel like this hero knew what he was

01:49:53   supposed to do he did the funniest thing

01:49:55   which is to eat a pie so yeah like you

01:49:59   put a man in a no-win situation he does

01:50:01   something funny hopefully he's a secret

01:50:04   millionaire offshore in the Bahamas for

01:50:07   his actions but he's caught up in in

01:50:09   some PI gate scandal like this seems

01:50:12   crazy to me is this feels like people

01:50:14   are too upset about a thing and the

01:50:17   guy's in a no-win situation and having

01:50:20   him resign from from his position it's

01:50:23   like makes me angry Brady that's how I

01:50:26   feel about that yeah the odds were 8 to

01:50:29   1 you could put an 8 to 1 bet on him

01:50:31   eating a pie mm-hmm just for

01:50:33   clarification I'm pretty sure I don't

01:50:34   know this for sure but I'm pretty sure

01:50:36   you couldn't place a bet on him not

01:50:38   eating a pie like that wasn't a bet you

01:50:39   could place I don't think but presumably

01:50:43   the betting company that was setting the

01:50:46   odds would make money if he didn't eat

01:50:48   the pie because all the people who

01:50:50   placed bets would lose their wager yeah

01:50:52   exactly he could he could have been

01:50:53   equally in trouble from people saying

01:50:54   are you were in cahoots with the betting

01:50:56   company you deliberately didn't eat the

01:50:58   pie so they could keep all those wages

01:51:00   and he'd get in trouble for that as well

01:51:02   in action causes and effects anyway

01:51:05   right so god it's yeah this feels

01:51:10   ridiculous to me and look maybe the man

01:51:13   just want to eat a pie right well he was

01:51:15   hungry he insisted afterwards that none

01:51:18   of his friends had profited from the

01:51:19   stunt and he only consumed a snack for

01:51:21   quote a bit of banter as they love to

01:51:24   say in the UK sure said this was a quote

01:51:26   from him immediately after the game a

01:51:28   few of the lads said to me early on

01:51:30   what's going on with 8 to 1 about eating

01:51:32   a pie and I said I don't know I've eaten

01:51:34   nothing all day so I might give it a go

01:51:36   later on I thought it would give them a

01:51:38   bit of banter but the FA and gambling

01:51:41   Commission failed to see the funny side

01:51:42   and launched investigations the

01:51:44   integrity in sport is not a joke

01:51:46   said Richard Watson enforcement and

01:51:48   intelligence director at the gambling

01:51:50   Commission no hope this sounds like a

01:51:51   fun guy great um a sort of related thing

01:51:55   is I just I don't understand a lot of

01:51:56   laws around like gambling and investing

01:52:00   it's just sometimes they feel like laws

01:52:02   that are kind of nannying laws like oh

01:52:05   they're for your own good like oh you're

01:52:07   not allowed to place bets or gamble

01:52:10   regularly but you can do it with these

01:52:12   various companies that we sanctioned

01:52:14   like this this is a whole bunch of

01:52:15   complications around the stuff that I

01:52:16   just don't like anyway why shouldn't

01:52:19   people be able to bet on whatever they

01:52:20   want to bet on why is that wrong you

01:52:22   know like if people want to set up a

01:52:23   betting market for hello Internet like

01:52:25   why would that be wrong about we know

01:52:26   whether or not sports ball corner shows

01:52:28   up in an episode what is wrong with

01:52:30   people doing like a like a private wager

01:52:32   on something like that I don't I don't

01:52:33   get it

01:52:34   well obviously the problem is it can be

01:52:36   manipulated and cheated and if you and I

01:52:38   found out about it and placed bets and

01:52:39   then just cut sports poor corner so we

01:52:41   could profit like that would be

01:52:43   profitable it feels kind of wrong but

01:52:46   like like I don't think this bet should

01:52:49   have existed like you said it was like a

01:52:51   no-win situation and there weren't two

01:52:52   parties to the yeah you know what that's

01:52:55   that that's actually a really good point

01:52:56   because it's like the sanction cuz

01:52:58   there's like these sanction companies in

01:53:00   the UK that allowed the sports Spedding

01:53:01   that I don't fully understand exactly

01:53:03   how they work but in the UK you're

01:53:05   allowed to bet on foreign elections like

01:53:08   you can bet on the US presidential

01:53:10   election results for example I'm just

01:53:12   kind of vaguely wondering last time

01:53:13   about the legality of

01:53:14   so an American citizen you're not

01:53:16   allowed to bet on the presidential

01:53:17   election which seems like it's spoiling

01:53:19   the fun but I just wanted like in an

01:53:21   American citizen bet on a election while

01:53:24   abroad like is that legally okay is that

01:53:26   not legally okay I don't know whatever

01:53:27   but nonetheless these companies exist

01:53:30   that are allowed to create the bets that

01:53:33   people can bet on and so it feels like

01:53:35   well wait a minute yeah I think you're

01:53:37   right Brady I feel like this this

01:53:38   company is actually at fault because

01:53:40   they're the ones that created this

01:53:42   ridiculous bet like you got sanctioned

01:53:45   to be the official holders of what can

01:53:47   be better what cannot be bets and you

01:53:49   messed it up by making this stupid pie

01:53:51   bet your fault I think the company that

01:53:54   made the pie bet they should resign from

01:53:57   their ability to have the license for

01:53:59   sports gambling that's what I think hmm

01:54:01   shut him down I do see the problem with

01:54:03   my liked to party

01:54:04   comment earlier because obviously you

01:54:06   could bet on whether Usain Bolt will run

01:54:08   100 meters in under 10 seconds and he

01:54:11   could affect that presumably

01:54:12   without another party but like there are

01:54:16   sanctions for that too but yeah it's

01:54:18   difficult d gamble grade you ever bet on

01:54:20   things when i gamble i gamble big so

01:54:23   I'll buy lottery tickets but I find most

01:54:25   gambling is too small stakes to be of

01:54:27   interest to me when you said that I

01:54:29   thought what do you buy like a thousand

01:54:31   pounds with the fluttery tickets or

01:54:32   something like this

01:54:34   I does mean like the the payoff has to

01:54:37   be really big in order for me to be

01:54:39   interested in the gambling because

01:54:40   otherwise it feels like oh I'm just

01:54:41   putting money into a machine that is

01:54:43   guaranteed to skim some money off the

01:54:45   top and give it back to me obviously

01:54:47   lottery tickets do the same thing but I

01:54:49   feel like I'm happy to pay the skimming

01:54:51   fee in order to get a potentially big

01:54:53   reward so that's that's me go big or go

01:54:56   home with gambling that's my rule have

01:54:58   you bought lottery tickets lately

01:55:00   because I know that in a your happiness

01:55:02   barometer is it has been a long long

01:55:05   time since I bought a lottery ticket so

01:55:07   that's good I haven't bought a lottery

01:55:09   ticket him probably a couple years

01:55:10   actually oh that means you're happy

01:55:12   basically since hello internet started

01:55:15   yes that's right since hello internet

01:55:18   started and I've I get to talk to you

01:55:21   every two weeks my life has been filled

01:55:24   with rainbows and happiness all the time

01:55:27   I wonder if there's a

01:55:28   market going on at the moment for Brady

01:55:30   Haran versus Steve Allen I know where

01:55:33   I'd place my bet

01:56:38   are you still there

01:56:44   not I thought you're being very

01:56:46   unresponsive I'm calling you back and

01:56:51   then I'll find out when you dropped out

01:56:54   I'm just talking to myself now