The Accidental Tech Podcast

231: I Am Not a Salad Power User

 

  I'm never buying a car ever again I bet [TS]

  that's not true that's like me saying [TS]

  I'm perfectly happy with my computer [TS]

  setup I'm never changing anything I mean [TS]

  come on we know each other and we know [TS]

  ourselves entirely accurate well done [TS]

  sir [TS]

  we're traveling and well two thirds of [TS]

  us are traveling over the next three or [TS]

  four weeks and as it turns out in as [TS]

  with all things we accidentally [TS]

  scheduled our vacations in a not [TS]

  terribly convenient way basically in [TS]

  sequence yeah basically we are we are [TS]

  doing vacationing in serial and not [TS]

  parallel yeah this is a this is a single [TS]

  core single threaded vacation operation [TS]

  here at the XML tech podcast and so [TS]

  we're going to have to squeeze in like [TS]

  17 weeks worth of shows in the span of [TS]

  like three weeks not literally of course [TS]

  but that's what it feels like and [TS]

  because of Gary the privacy clown I'm [TS]

  not gonna disclose any more than that [TS]

  but suffice to say yeah we did not plan [TS]

  well whoops it's almost like Adobe wrote [TS]

  our schedule figure that well there's [TS]

  nothing Adobe writes is parallel hey Oh [TS]

  we'll be here all week except not really [TS]

  cuz it's like I just said we're going on [TS]

  vacation anyway how are you guys totally [TS]

  fucked how's the dog John hanging in [TS]

  there doing dog things how much of your [TS]

  house remains both intact and not [TS]

  covered in pee oh it's entirely covered [TS]

  in pee it goes for the soft items a [TS]

  little bit of chewing on the stairs and [TS]

  cabinets and furniture but really mostly [TS]

  goes for the toilet paper and stuff like [TS]

  that [TS]

  high-value targets soft targets you [TS]

  shred that toilet paper make a giant [TS]

  mess in a matter of seconds you almost [TS]

  want to take some like pictures or video [TS]

  but then you do have to actually clean [TS]

  up and encourage the dog to do this but [TS]

  it is kind of cute it's the thing that [TS]

  puppies have puppies and babies their [TS]

  cuteness is their defense that's [TS]

  absolutely accurate all right let's [TS]

  start with some follow-up and it starts [TS]

  with Andrew Burwell who writes in to say [TS]

  I found this website to be a [TS]

  particularly good [TS]

  for best TV settings and this is our [TS]

  Tings comm slash TV we'll put a link in [TS]

  the show notes they use calibration [TS]

  tools on the TV and adjust each brand [TS]

  and model of TV to its best settings [TS]

  possible given that they're all [TS]

  manufactured the same way you could [TS]

  expect reasonable calibration using this [TS]

  method they give you screenshots of your [TS]

  particular TV menus with the settings [TS]

  you need to use I have an ancient TV [TS]

  that is 1080 but it is ancient and I [TS]

  have never bothered I'm sorry Todd and [TS]

  John I've never bothered setting it up [TS]

  properly and I need to dig into this [TS]

  website and see if they have settings [TS]

  from ITV because I've never cared enough [TS]

  to really make it work as we discussed [TS]

  last episode and this sounds pretty [TS]

  great that I need to check this out yeah [TS]

  actually so after last episode and after [TS]

  John scolded me into you know thinking I [TS]

  needed to calibrate my TV the first [TS]

  thing I did was not to download an app [TS]

  to try to do it the first thing I did [TS]

  was search the web for other people's [TS]

  calibration settings for this TV because [TS]

  it's a current model TV and there's a [TS]

  lot of nerds out there who would do this [TS]

  kind of stuff and publish their results [TS]

  this was the first thing that came up [TS]

  and so a few hours before the whole [TS]

  world's are telling me to go to this [TS]

  site I had actually already done it and [TS]

  had tried their settings with very minor [TS]

  modifications all I did was make it a [TS]

  little bit brighter and make it slightly [TS]

  closer to neutral white balance and it's [TS]

  great and so I haven't changed it since [TS]

  it's been wonderful so that's better [TS]

  than nothing but I would still encourage [TS]

  people to actually use the calibration [TS]

  app because they say oh yeah all TV's [TS]

  they're all the same like you know [TS]

  there's not there's no variance in [TS]

  manufacturing or age or anything like [TS]

  it's it's just not true like this will [TS]

  get you in the ballpark to actually find [TS]

  out if your TV's kalbarri you have to go [TS]

  through calibration of some kind and [TS]

  these probably get really really close [TS]

  right but even just based on like how [TS]

  bright your room is and where the [TS]

  windows are and if you mostly watch TV [TS]

  during the day or the night would you [TS]

  want to have one sort of in the middle [TS]

  setting or have a daytime and a [TS]

  nighttime setting and by the way look at [TS]

  this website is way better than things [TS]

  used to be when I calibrate it when I [TS]

  last calibrated my TV was still more of [TS]

  the Wild West this is so nice with like [TS]

  the pictures of the menus and easy to [TS]

  find your TV you don't have to go [TS]

  through forums and download these text [TS]

  files with the listings of all the [TS]

  settings and stuff like that but looking [TS]

  at the settings for Markowski [TS]

  be on this website it shows the TV's [TS]

  still suck where it's like well if you [TS]

  put this setting on these settings go [TS]

  from a menu to a slider and you can't [TS]

  use this setting with that thing and the [TS]

  again the words don't make any sense in [TS]

  the menus and I don't understand why [TS]

  they have like these Smart TVs have [TS]

  little computers in there right there [TS]

  running entire operating systems and yet [TS]

  the settings are all like well only the [TS]

  setting called PC can have these [TS]

  settings and when you put on game mode [TS]

  only these things are available and like [TS]

  I mean sometimes it makes sense where [TS]

  they're turning things off but this [TS]

  should all be downloadable standardized [TS]

  like even just not across all [TS]

  manufacturers obviously but just like [TS]

  there shouldn't be no dumb limitations [TS]

  they don't like only the PC input can [TS]

  support a particular color space and [TS]

  stuff like that [TS]

  nothing should have weird code words [TS]

  everything should be in like normal tech [TS]

  terms not branding terms shouldn't be [TS]

  like warm to warm size one doesn't help [TS]

  anybody and the weird limitations of [TS]

  like Oh only in the ISF expert mode can [TS]

  you change this setting but if you did [TS]

  the standard setting these three things [TS]

  aren't available but in this one like [TS]

  you don't get to pick the gamma it's [TS]

  like just just make them all the same [TS]

  and look and and you only have like five [TS]

  different settings like oh I've used of [TS]

  all my settings and actually sometimes [TS]

  you only get one setting that lets you [TS]

  change everything but that one setting [TS]

  doesn't let you enable game mode it's [TS]

  like there should be an unlimited number [TS]

  of settings it's not like a game where [TS]

  you're trying to make it so they can [TS]

  only have to save slots that make the [TS]

  game art or like how is it that we have [TS]

  these complete webOS operating system on [TS]

  there and yet you still only have you [TS]

  know five sets of settings and they all [TS]

  and they're all slightly different from [TS]

  each other so well let me provide a [TS]

  counterpoint here have you ever gone to [TS]

  a one of these places like chopped it's [TS]

  like a basically like a salad assembly [TS]

  thing like it's like Subway for salads [TS]

  mm-hmm I have not [TS]

  I knew Casey would have I knew Troy what [TS]

  I've never I've never heard of this [TS]

  thing okay so basically so when I go to [TS]

  a place like this there you know you can [TS]

  you can do the thing where you just [TS]

  create your own salad from you know bare [TS]

  parts or you can have like one of the [TS]

  preset salads that's on the wall if the [TS]

  only option was here is an array of 40 [TS]

  different ingredients and you tell me [TS]

  what kind of salad you want and I make a [TS]

  if I went to that restaurant I I would [TS]

  have no idea what to make I would make a [TS]

  crap salad it would just be terrible it [TS]

  would be bland or uncreated or would [TS]

  have weird ratios or whatever else I [TS]

  always order off the presets and if and [TS]

  I might adjust things slightly within [TS]

  one of the presets I like some guidance [TS]

  because I am NOT a salad power user and [TS]

  so I don't really like I need some [TS]

  starting points some presets asking for [TS]

  although I'm not asking for they're not [TS]

  three presets I'm asking for there could [TS]

  be like say there's like a thousand [TS]

  things you can change in the TV but I [TS]

  all means ship seventeen presets in fact [TS]

  I would like an app store for presets [TS]

  even like where these websites wouldn't [TS]

  have to exist you can just but the whole [TS]

  point is if you decide hey I want to [TS]

  make a new setting called you know [TS]

  Marcos setting there should be no [TS]

  limitations like up sorry you only get [TS]

  five settings and they're the presets [TS]

  and if you change one of them then you [TS]

  change one of the presets the only way [TS]

  to get it back as a factory default [TS]

  should be like new thing and you could [TS]

  start like would you like this new [TS]

  setting to start from one of the [TS]

  standard ones sure start from the [TS]

  whatever setting and then when you go in [TS]

  there all thousand switches should be [TS]

  available to you preset to whatever they [TS]

  were from the setting you inherit from [TS]

  there should be no limitations like oh [TS]

  you have to name his input capital T and [TS]

  capital C and it's the only one that can [TS]

  show the entire you know this is the old [TS]

  world like the only one that doesn't do [TS]

  overscan you have to call the input PC [TS]

  and you only get one of those sorry and [TS]

  it has to be this particular input or [TS]

  whatever right they should be uniform [TS]

  and you should be able to make as many [TS]

  new ones as you want and you shouldn't [TS]

  lose the presets and in fact it's such [TS]

  an easy opportunity to make presets [TS]

  something like downloadable sinkable [TS]

  shareable with friends like they should [TS]

  cultivate these forums say if someone [TS]

  wants to run some fancy calibration app [TS]

  and make a branded setting and make it [TS]

  downloadable you should be able to go to [TS]

  that URL and pull down the settings for [TS]

  whatever there should be no dumb [TS]

  arbitrary limitations that don't make [TS]

  any sense that's what I'm saying not [TS]

  that you should have presets well but I [TS]

  I respect the idea of of what is exposed [TS]

  most of the time to me the user is [TS]

  here's some presets and if you go into [TS]

  them there are a few not even a lot [TS]

  there are a few things you can tweak [TS]

  under each one and then only in the [TS]

  expert ones buried like three levels [TS]

  deep even within those are all the [TS]

  different options that you want but I [TS]

  actually don't want most of me because I [TS]

  know that most of those options I [TS]

  shouldn't touch those cuz hey I don't [TS]

  you really care and be anything I would [TS]

  adjust there I would probably be making [TS]

  things worse because I don't know I'm [TS]

  doing you can hide them under to vance [TS]

  off and just like to do an app [TS]

  preferences you don't expose all the [TS]

  perfect it's like you have nitpicky [TS]

  settings like they're not not there it's [TS]

  just that you don't see them unless you [TS]

  really dig for them right so you put the [TS]

  top and really honestly the things the [TS]

  number of things you need to adjust on [TS]

  television [TS]

  aside from turning off stuff which is [TS]

  kind of annoying that you would have to [TS]

  dig through it right I mean just look at [TS]

  the the setting preset they recommend [TS]

  it's like every single feature this [TS]

  television has off off off off [TS]

  no sharpness enhancement no vibrancy no [TS]

  edge whatever no motion anything just [TS]

  off off off everything right it's [TS]

  annoying that you have to do that right [TS]

  but that aside you really just need to [TS]

  change two or three settings brightness [TS]

  contrast different color balance things [TS]

  and that's it it's not like there's a [TS]

  hundred things you can do for picture [TS]

  quality mostly you're just turning crap [TS]

  off so yeah by all means have a [TS]

  hierarchy of settings have here at the [TS]

  three or four things you probably might [TS]

  want to change and advanced picture [TS]

  advanced motion advanced whatever when [TS]

  you dig down and down if you want to [TS]

  make it higher even though things that's [TS]

  fine but I don't like it when options [TS]

  aren't available to you or like well in [TS]

  this mode you get three settings for [TS]

  this thing but in this mode you get a [TS]

  slider that has you know five hundred [TS]

  settings for it why we just decided [TS]

  that's what it is you know we got a two [TS]

  other interesting pieces of feedback [TS]

  around this Malcolm Hall wrote in to [TS]

  tell us that some people have been [TS]

  buying Samsung has a product called [TS]

  smart signage which is basically a TV [TS]

  sized monitor and that's it so the idea [TS]

  is you take a monitor that's you know 40 [TS]

  50 60 70 inches but it doesn't have [TS]

  anything smart in it presumably it just [TS]

  has like HDMI or or equivalent and [TS]

  nothing else there is no speakers [TS]

  there's no smartness it's just a dumb [TS]

  display and if you're hooking this up [TS]

  like a sound bar or a or a stereo system [TS]

  I mean I guess some of you could go [TS]

  crazy enough to do surround sound but [TS]

  anyway if you hook it up to some other [TS]

  external speaker system then you don't [TS]

  have to fight all the silly smartness [TS]

  which isn't exactly what you two were [TS]

  talking about because you two were just [TS]

  talking about calibrating the screen but [TS]

  but that's kind of neat and an [TS]

  additionally safecom wrote in to say [TS]

  that Samsung is also trying to do [TS]

  a frame TV which is designed to look [TS]

  like nothing at all or not a TV at all [TS]

  until you want it to be a TV and then it [TS]

  will go from like a still picture to a [TS]

  regular traditional TV and that probably [TS]

  isn't the best word picture that I've [TS]

  just painted but we'll put links to both [TS]

  these in the show notes I saw that video [TS]

  but like it's so it's hard to tell from [TS]

  video but like is it is it still like a [TS]

  light-emitting display when it didn't [TS]

  like the frame mode yeah that's entirely [TS]

  like a marketing BS because there's no [TS]

  way you wouldn't know that's a TV like [TS]

  they always put it in lighting it's like [TS]

  it looks just like the paintings like [TS]

  because they put it in like a picture [TS]

  frame like oh it's like a painting right [TS]

  but you know it's not especially if [TS]

  there's a LCD TV with terrible black [TS]

  levels like that we no way there we go [TS]

  bright sunlight shining on your wall on [TS]

  an actual painting of a sailboat next to [TS]

  like a sailboat picture on your [TS]

  television I don't know who they think [TS]

  they're fooling with that but I mean I [TS]

  guess it looks nice if you have decor [TS]

  things there's a lot of a lot of [TS]

  televisions that you buy look like you [TS]

  know whatever they look like technology [TS]

  products they look like computer [TS]

  equipment or whatever and if you don't [TS]

  want that look if you want to look more [TS]

  like a piece of furniture that some [TS]

  people do this is a good look for your [TS]

  television but no you're something to [TS]

  think that people are going to believe [TS]

  it's a painting because they will not [TS]

  because it does not look like a TV maybe [TS]

  it was color a ink that would work but [TS]

  we don't have that tech I feel like any [TS]

  any technology that tries to hide a TV [TS]

  that's solving the wrong problem like [TS]

  remember when when computers first came [TS]

  out when we were all children [TS]

  well when Casey and I were children and [TS]

  and and a lot of times our parents would [TS]

  make the computer live in some kind of [TS]

  giant cabinet that would like close with [TS]

  big door like wooden doors sometimes [TS]

  they put TVs in there too but usually [TS]

  like the computer was what was hidden in [TS]

  this in this giant wooden cabinet by the [TS]

  wall and fro and and that was like a [TS]

  certain generation like the default mode [TS]

  was to hide technology you know [TS]

  oftentimes like our parents generation [TS]

  and then now it's like well no you you [TS]

  have to use that like that that's just [TS]

  normal to see in a house it would be [TS]

  weird if you saw a house that didn't [TS]

  have a TV in it now and so I feel like [TS]

  trying to hide a TV like it's you're [TS]

  just kind of fighting a losing battle [TS]

  like you're gonna either have a really [TS]

  strange looking picture on the wall [TS]

  or you're gonna have some kind of crazy [TS]

  complex thing like one of those you know [TS]

  raising and lowering things for the TV [TS]

  slides up out of a dresser you know see [TS]

  that like that that's just doomed to [TS]

  break and fail and we it's you know [TS]

  that's that's no good either like just [TS]

  have a TV that you don't mind the look [TS]

  of and if you don't want a TV in a room [TS]

  don't put a TV in that room like [TS]

  anything else besides just trying to own [TS]

  it is is not gonna go well for you [TS]

  same deal with baldness by the way TV's [TS]

  bless you think that's an old thing [TS]

  people still totally do that in the most [TS]

  recent this old house house I recall [TS]

  they have a television that they were a [TS]

  putting over their fireplace which is [TS]

  way too high for TV and B wanted to hide [TS]

  with the set of folding doors that like [TS]

  had a painting and to raid it into them [TS]

  so when it was closed they're just like [TS]

  a painting like an actual painting or [TS]

  whatever eventually I just made use wood [TS]

  paneled doors because I guess someone [TS]

  talking about the painting idea but yes [TS]

  people still want to hide their [TS]

  televisions and I guess people don't [TS]

  like it you know like decor wise it [TS]

  doesn't look nice to have a big black [TS]

  rectangle and and I think even these [TS]

  picture frame ones to have a big monitor [TS]

  turned on too you know a picture of a [TS]

  sunset or something we just don't have [TS]

  the text it's not gonna look right [TS]

  people in the chat room are pointing me [TS]

  to color inks yes we have color ink not [TS]

  televisions you can't they don't show [TS]

  motion they did to have that hybrid one [TS]

  remember that one that was like color [TS]

  ink but also LCD for motion so it was [TS]

  like this weird and obviously didn't [TS]

  catch on eventually we could have some [TS]

  kind of display technology that does [TS]

  reflective sort of like in the off mode [TS]

  where you could put a picture on there [TS]

  that would look just like a you know a [TS]

  picture on the wall or at least it'd [TS]

  look like a poster at very least maybe [TS]

  or a very large photograph ad but that [TS]

  could also do the motion of television [TS]

  but we don't have that yet but people [TS]

  still want to hide the TVs and I totally [TS]

  agree with you Mariana I think it's it's [TS]

  ridiculous to hide your television like [TS]

  part of it is almost like you know not [TS]

  just the decor of a big black rectangle [TS]

  but also the idea that people don't want [TS]

  to think of their lives as centering [TS]

  around television like that's somehow a [TS]

  shameful thing because of all like this [TS]

  the television shaming from from I think [TS]

  of both of our childhoods of like you TV [TS]

  rots your brain and don't watch TV and [TS]

  people you know you don't want people to [TS]

  know how much television you watch but [TS]

  if you don't watch that much television [TS]

  maybe don't have a 70 inch televisions I [TS]

  mean [TS]

  like you know the the budget and [TS]

  wallspace reflected by your television [TS]

  choices are not in line with the image [TS]

  you want to project to the outside world [TS]

  like oh we don't even that only [TS]

  television we don't even watch [TS]

  television we just have the 70 inch [TS]

  rectangle here because we were forced to [TS]

  have it probably the neighbors I don't [TS]

  know anyway I never want my television [TS]

  bein and by the way those little [TS]

  cabinets where you put your computers [TS]

  one of the things that I think helps [TS]

  kill those is the fact that our [TS]

  computers are so hot now that you know [TS]

  putting them inside an enclosed cabinet [TS]

  would destroy everything no they were [TS]

  hotter than because back then they were [TS]

  CRTs yeah but like the computers [TS]

  themselves were cooler I mean some of [TS]

  them you know they didn't even have fans [TS]

  over the heatsinks for the CPUs back in [TS]

  the ya-ya series are hot too but like [TS]

  the entertainment center for television [TS]

  use to be like that to memory the [TS]

  entertainment centers were for like your [TS]

  VCR and your game consoles like those [TS]

  were entirely enclosed too maybe they [TS]

  had holes punched out in the back for [TS]

  the wires to go through and most things [TS]

  didn't get that hot like you didn't have [TS]

  you know your Xbox 360 in there as you [TS]

  know your the NES was not getting that [TS]

  hot compared to modern consoles but [TS]

  those things were not a great [TS]

  environment for electronics and today [TS]

  it's mostly worse because our DVR is [TS]

  maybe not our blu-ray players but [TS]

  certainly our game consoles are hotter [TS]

  but the TV's like bar goes are way [TS]

  cooler temperature wise than a CRT or [TS]

  our plasma or anything like that so [TS]

  those actually could go in cabinets or [TS]

  just the now they're the thickness of a [TS]

  piece of paper cabinets don't make any [TS]

  sense anymore I always love to like like [TS]

  the entertainment centers that are that [TS]

  like our parents would have that was [TS]

  mostly during the era of CRT TVs so like [TS]

  they were giant like they made the [TS]

  decision that this tremendous wouldn't [TS]

  monolith thing in the living room that [TS]

  was somehow better than just having a TV [TS]

  like that was fooling nobody yeah and it [TS]

  was and they were huge like they were [TS]

  often way bigger than the television [TS]

  like they were big enough that you could [TS]

  like shelve rows and rows of VHS tapes [TS]

  and stuff and then the other great thing [TS]

  my parents did this too they have one of [TS]

  their house right now you you would buy [TS]

  one and they're expensive like [TS]

  especially the ones that filled an [TS]

  entire wall that's a substantial piece [TS]

  of furniture if you got a nice one not [TS]

  an inexpensive piece of furniture [TS]

  because it's literally massive right and [TS]

  if you got one you were deciding how [TS]

  your television was going to be until [TS]

  you know unless you want to replace that [TS]

  huge expensive piece of furniture or you [TS]

  know unless it's built into your house [TS]

  right and so if you bought one before [TS]

  HGTV you had a four by three hole for a [TS]

  television and then you have to put a [TS]

  sixteen by nine TV in there and so you [TS]

  got shrunk down and if you bought before [TS]

  televisions got really big and you could [TS]

  just barely thick like a 40 inch HDTV in [TS]

  there now you can't get a good TV or you [TS]

  feel like hang out a big TV my parents [TS]

  have to buy based on which TV will fit [TS]

  inside their slightly dated piece of [TS]

  furniture where they fit their [TS]

  television some so with putting your [TS]

  electronics inside a box of any kind [TS]

  it's just not a particularly [TS]

  future-proof idea and it's so true my [TS]

  brother-in-law has a house bill Prime in [TS]

  the late 90s I think and he has in his [TS]

  family room our living room where ever [TS]

  he has like I guess he could call to [TS]

  built-in but basically in the wall is [TS]

  like sunk in and it's about the size of [TS]

  maybe a 40 or 50 inch TV these days and [TS]

  I'm sure left to his own devices he [TS]

  would have like a 9,000 inch monstrosity [TS]

  but because it's in a built in that's in [TS]

  his wall there's not really a lot he can [TS]

  do like to make it bigger he would have [TS]

  to cut into his wall also John you are [TS]

  officially uninvited from ever coming to [TS]

  my house because I have a TV that is not [TS]

  calibrated is it mounted above the [TS]

  fireplace probably I don't know two or [TS]

  three feet off the ceiling which is like [TS]

  a seven or eight-foot ceiling I guess [TS]

  eight-foot ceiling I have to point one [TS]

  sound I have a turntable like this is [TS]

  pretty much your hell is my family room [TS]

  and I like it quite a lot but you're [TS]

  never coming over because I don't want [TS]

  to I don't want to never hear the end of [TS]

  this we have no option so so our family [TS]

  room I wasn't trying to make this an [TS]

  actual conversation but hey here we are [TS]

  our family room and Marco can vouch for [TS]

  this it's very very wide and very [TS]

  shallow if that makes sense and so [TS]

  because of that there's no real [TS]

  convenient way to have a TV in the room [TS]

  unless you put it in the corner and like [TS]

  twist the furniture in the room till be [TS]

  in the corner but it's a very shallow [TS]

  room so the the best place for it in [TS]

  terms of room and furniture flow is [TS]

  above the fireplace and that's where it [TS]

  is but but I understand and I rec [TS]

  knives that for the optimum TV viewing [TS]

  experience that is probably not the [TS]

  right place for it we were sponsored [TS]

  this week by fracture go to fracture me [TS]

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  me.com slash podcast and mention ATP for [TS]

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  much to fracture for sponsoring our show [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  speaking of calibration which we were [TS]

  talking about about 45 minutes ago [TS]

  thx has a has a tune up app thx tune up [TS]

  that is I guess pretty well regarded [TS]

  it's for Android and iOS unfortunately [TS]

  not for the Apple TV however people are [TS]

  asking for calibration apps and I [TS]

  suggested this to mark oh I assume like [TS]

  oh there must be a bunch of government [TS]

  it turns out no there Apple TV is the [TS]

  the Apple TV app store is not looking [TS]

  too good if there's a good one probable [TS]

  to be I couldn't find it put it that way [TS]

  i-i think i downloaded or purchased [TS]

  every Apple TV app that has anything to [TS]

  do with calibration and they are all [TS]

  pretty terrible [TS]

  thx tune-up I used years ago and still [TS]

  out there it's not an Apple TV app which [TS]

  follows me in a couple of ways because [TS]

  like well you know what's the point like [TS]

  why why do I have to also have a you [TS]

  know phone or an iPad and then somehow a [TS]

  way to project that to the TV they're a [TS]

  chromecast or an Apple TV but if you [TS]

  have the one combination I know it works [TS]

  you have an iOS device like an iPad or [TS]

  an iPhone and you also have an Apple TV [TS]

  you run the thx tune-up app on your iOS [TS]

  device in your hand and then you airplay [TS]

  it to the TV and the reason I don't like [TS]

  that is because as far as I know airplay [TS]

  is lossy compressed over-the-air that is [TS]

  that correct to mark on you might now [TS]

  video is is lossy compressed audio is [TS]

  lossless alright so but week everybody [TS]

  here in this case and so like does you [TS]

  really want to run a calibration app [TS]

  compressed occur I mean some parts of it [TS]

  work like the you know the geometry [TS]

  stuff and the you know making sure you [TS]

  can see all the pixels and stuff like [TS]

  that but but anyway the app itself is [TS]

  actually decent it does the important [TS]

  things of saying here's a screen here's [TS]

  what it's supposed to look like in words [TS]

  adjusted until you can see all six boxes [TS]

  or until you can barely make out those [TS]

  numbered you know seven over here or but [TS]

  like they they tell you what you're [TS]

  looking for and then you can then it's [TS]

  up to you to mess with your television [TS]

  and do it it's a great way to test your [TS]

  calibration things if you download those [TS]

  settings from that website [TS]

  who knows maybe it's dead on for your TV [TS]

  run through the calibration screens and [TS]

  it would be like you should see six [TS]

  boxes you'd be like yep I see six boxes [TS]

  go to the next one [TS]

  you should see the number nine family [TS]

  visible and you shouldn't see 10 yep I [TS]

  see it go to that you'll it'll take you [TS]

  30 seconds right but if you go through [TS]

  it and it's off then you get into the [TS]

  hole it's time to actually calibrate [TS]

  your TV or make it a them in a nighttime [TS]

  setting or whatever so I was going to [TS]

  bring up in well actually you and say [TS]

  well actually why don't you use or I [TS]

  guess let me do this right well actually [TS]

  you should use the lightning digital AV [TS]

  Adapter but doesn't that use airplay [TS]

  behind [TS]

  means anyone yes doesn't doesn't have [TS]

  like little h.264 decoder encoder thing [TS]

  there and a tiny iOS device or something [TS]

  yeah panic with the whole blog post [TS]

  about him yeah yeah so obviously is not [TS]

  the ideal thing and and uh this is the [TS]

  the next bit of follow up here from John [TS]

  Duffin and a lot of people are giving us [TS]

  tips about this I figured it was maybe [TS]

  someone Twitter was saying I was saying [TS]

  Lucasfilm DVDs and blu-rays have [TS]

  calibration things on them like if you [TS]

  go to their menus like deep in the [TS]

  extras section someone was telling me [TS]

  that most Pixar blu-rays and DVDs have [TS]

  calibration apps again somewhere buried [TS]

  in there extras menu on them john Duffin [TS]

  road and tell us that if you have a Sony [TS]

  Pictures blu-ray and you type Sony on [TS]

  the title screen like seven six nine [TS]

  seven six six nine like telephone [TS]

  dialing Sony I suppose it will open the [TS]

  calibration screen which seems pretty [TS]

  sneaky cuz who the heck knows how to do [TS]

  that I should actually put it in the [TS]

  menu these are all ways to get a better [TS]

  source for calibration especially from [TS]

  like blu-ray player please that's that's [TS]

  directly connected to your television [TS]

  and is not lossy compressed h.264 [TS]

  over-the-air through air play the [TS]

  quality of these calibration apps varies [TS]

  but at the very least you can do [TS]

  geometry and you know grayscale levels [TS]

  and brightness and stuff like that and [TS]

  do a reasonable job of it so there's [TS]

  really pretty no excuse for people not [TS]

  to have access to calibrations thing of [TS]

  some kind it's not you have to buy some [TS]

  expensive piece of hardware or software [TS]

  or you know do anything fancier it just [TS]

  surely everyone who's listening to this [TS]

  who has a fancy television that's worth [TS]

  calibrating has a DVD or a blu-ray or [TS]

  access to the iOS App Store to get I [TS]

  think thx turn up is free but if not you [TS]

  know it's the price of a cup of coffee [TS]

  just download it and give it a go [TS]

  counter argument the art things ratings [TS]

  are pretty good and nothing can make me [TS]

  want to boot up the ps4 and play a [TS]

  blu-ray disc somehow in that monstrosity [TS]

  and then get to the monstrosity that is [TS]

  blu-ray discs themselves and then [TS]

  navigate that and do all this when the [TS]

  are things things were good enough [TS]

  you've got an Apple TV you see HX steps [TS]

  it's fun [TS]

  calibrating your TV can be fun or you [TS]

  can just not here that is an officially [TS]

  ATP blast options [TS]

  not gonna make sure that your didn't do [TS]

  we go through this fear with the size [TS]

  that's all I care about in your TV is [TS]

  that it's not an over scan mode no wait [TS]

  wait whoa really I don't want it to be [TS]

  I've tried everything I knew how to do [TS]

  to fix it I'm not I'm not proud of this [TS]

  I sound proud I'm gonna get about the [TS]

  car buying get rid of that TV but but [TS]

  the mount that we have in our wall I [TS]

  think only support you know pristine [TS]

  1080 versions of a show and then it's [TS]

  stretched to non-native res and you're [TS]

  stripping all the edges when you wash [TS]

  absolutely accurate absolutely I'm not [TS]

  proud of this I know I sound all smug [TS]

  and proud I'm not it's just I have spent [TS]

  what I consider to be an inordinate [TS]

  amount of time trying to fix this which [TS]

  is to say like five or ten minutes and [TS]

  yeah I couldn't figure it out and I was [TS]

  I just don't care enough I just don't I [TS]

  want it to be fixed it's not that I [TS]

  don't want it to be fixed I just don't [TS]

  care enough so I would invite you Joe [TS]

  down John to fix it but a you would [TS]

  never travel that far unless under [TS]

  duress and be you would hate everything [TS]

  you saw and potentially firebomb my [TS]

  house I've only Marco had purchased this [TS]

  television two years earlier because we [TS]

  ran it by now he'll be buying another [TS]

  television you know it's sitting behind [TS]

  my chair in my living room you want it [TS]

  probably weighs a ton well yeah excuse [TS]

  if you want to come pick it up you can [TS]

  have it well we'll talk about that later [TS]

  all right tell me about your small [TS]

  speaker amp Marco [TS]

  oh yeah million people ask I I mentioned [TS]

  very quickly in passing last episode [TS]

  that my preferred setup was just this [TS]

  tiny little Class D amplifier cards [TS]

  driving just two speakers without a [TS]

  subwoofer without surround anything like [TS]

  that and a million people have asked me [TS]

  since then which amp it is and the [TS]

  reason I didn't say is because it is the [TS]

  NuForce dia or dia I don't know dia and [TS]

  it's been it was discontinued like three [TS]

  years ago and and new for the entire [TS]

  company of new force was bought by this [TS]

  other company that apparently all the [TS]

  fans of new force hate and they say [TS]

  they've ruined all their products since [TS]

  then so I didn't feel comfortable [TS]

  recommending it because it's not only [TS]

  can you not get in anymore but the [TS]

  things that you can get now have pretty [TS]

  crappy reviews from people who used to [TS]

  like the old stuff [TS]

  so there is now this there's this giant [TS]

  class of small like Class D amplifiers [TS]

  and like getting into the details of [TS]

  like what like Class A and Class A B and [TS]

  all these different amplifier topologies [TS]

  are Class D basically allows you to make [TS]

  an amp very very small and low heat and [TS]

  low power and audio files don't like it [TS]

  as much as the other kinds but for the [TS]

  purposes of like you know speakers on TV [TS]

  it's totally fine and and so Class D am [TS]

  sorry there's lots of them if you search [TS]

  Amazon for a class D amp there there's a [TS]

  ton that are with roughly between one [TS]

  and four hundred dollars that are [TS]

  approximately 25 to 50 watts per channel [TS]

  and many of them support remote controls [TS]

  and so for my little new force one has a [TS]

  little generic remote and I was very [TS]

  very easily able to have the Apple TV [TS]

  learn that up and down volume controlled [TS]

  and that's it so that's what I'm using [TS]

  now if I had to buy new today I would [TS]

  probably want a little bit more power [TS]

  for driving like floor standards but if [TS]

  you're just driving bookshelves then [TS]

  those little like 20 watt ones are fine [TS]

  on Amazon and again there's a lot so [TS]

  just look for Class D am from oats and [TS]

  they're there there's a lot out there [TS]

  all right now I didn't get a chance to [TS]

  read this but Jonathan Dietz jr. writes [TS]

  in about Type C personality so can one [TS]

  of you take me through this if you don't [TS]

  mind is that like a railer personality [TS]

  that you can insert either direction [TS]

  it's a post title so he's been emailing [TS]

  back and forth with me about a USB [TS]

  type-c stuff since the show that we [TS]

  talked about it he had remember that big [TS]

  long email that he read he wrote an even [TS]

  longer email after i'm like you should [TS]

  make this blog post because there's no [TS]

  way we can even summarize a feedback [TS]

  email this complicated and you should [TS]

  just really make it a blog post like [TS]

  don't just email your you know insights [TS]

  and ideas to a single or a couple of [TS]

  people put it up on the web for [TS]

  everybody to see because then we can [TS]

  just link to it in the show notes which [TS]

  we will do and then anyone who's [TS]

  interested can read it so if you want to [TS]

  hear even more about the nitty gritty [TS]

  details of USB type-c and all the [TS]

  different alternate modes and what do [TS]

  would take to get hubs of different [TS]

  kinds of stuff take a look at this very [TS]

  long detailed post I think the most [TS]

  salient point in a couple [TS]

  people have brought this up as well is [TS]

  the idea that it's still early enough in [TS]

  us the USB 3.1 spec in the type C spec [TS]

  and all the other stuff that there [TS]

  aren't a lot of chipsets that support [TS]

  all the different protocols and are [TS]

  certified by all the standards bodies [TS]

  and so on and so forth and that most [TS]

  companies that make hubs just by like [TS]

  tips from somebody else or like a [TS]

  reference design from somebody else that [TS]

  has already done all the work to make [TS]

  sure you know the thing actually works [TS]

  and is certified according to all the [TS]

  standards bodies or whatever and they [TS]

  just package it in a box and and slap on [TS]

  a crappy power supply it's gonna break [TS]

  in six months or ever but that's what [TS]

  they do they don't they don't make the [TS]

  chips they want the chips to already be [TS]

  made and a bunch of companies are going [TS]

  to be making these types of chips for a [TS]

  us the new USB specs and they're just [TS]

  coming online now so it could be that [TS]

  you wait another year [TS]

  there could be many more options for you [TS]

  know USB type-c hubs to do fan-out on [TS]

  them and more complicated Thunderbolt [TS]

  hubs and stuff like that so we'll see [TS]

  you could also end up being like [TS]

  firewire where yeah and that'd be even [TS]

  many many years into it the only a few [TS]

  companies make a set of chips and [TS]

  everything still cost a million dollars [TS]

  it's a little steep but anyway I [TS]

  recommend the post he took the time to [TS]

  write a blog post and so now the entire [TS]

  world can share in his knowledge [TS]

  excellent Brian Ross Lee writes in to [TS]

  say are the rumored OLED iPhones going [TS]

  to have issues with image retention if [TS]

  so what measures should we take to [TS]

  prevent it the question is are they [TS]

  going to have more issues with image [TS]

  retention than LCDs do you do you know [TS]

  that your current iOS device if it has [TS]

  image retention because I can tell you [TS]

  that many iOS devices over many many [TS]

  years have had image retention issues in [TS]

  fact maybe yours does now and me telling [TS]

  you this is gonna make you look at it [TS]

  and realize I'll god I have an image [TS]

  retention on my iPad you probably do [TS]

  people don't like to think about it but [TS]

  it is there if you look for it it can [TS]

  get really bad on some devices after [TS]

  some time and other devices hardly show [TS]

  it at all I suppose if you wanted like [TS]

  ignorance is bliss so you probably [TS]

  shouldn't do this kind of like in the [TS]

  old days when you'd look for dead pixels [TS]

  but Marco has a handy webpage that will [TS]

  put a checkerboard pattern on your [TS]

  screen [TS]

  and you'll leave it there for a while [TS]

  and then you go anywhere else [TS]

  and if you can still see the [TS]

  checkerboard guess what you've got image [TS]

  retention no you don't have to be [TS]

  anywhere else it'll switch over to gray [TS]

  for you that's right you click on us [TS]

  which is the gray after you stare at it [TS]

  for a little but but the whole point is [TS]

  like to convince yourself that Marco is [TS]

  not just trolling you you just launched [TS]

  another app or go to springboard or [TS]

  whatever and you'll still see it there [TS]

  I've never owned you know if you only [TS]

  all that I have is my Apple watch right [TS]

  like that's the only thing I have that's [TS]

  an OLED I have heard that oh I have [TS]

  image retention issues and I've heard it [TS]

  talked about because it's like the [TS]

  successor to plasma like you know [TS]

  because LCD was never really the [TS]

  successor to plasma because the image [TS]

  quality was worse and now here's OLED [TS]

  with image quality that was actually [TS]

  better and the old slam against plasma [TS]

  in addition to all the heat and expense [TS]

  and power use and everything was that it [TS]

  had image retention and of course LCD [TS]

  hasn't retention as well but the all you [TS]

  have a plasma has bad image or Pena so [TS]

  all that I've heard talked about as if [TS]

  it's almost as bad as plasma and so I [TS]

  thinking that it's worse than LCD in [TS]

  terms of search engine but having a [TS]

  never owned one I have no idea guess [TS]

  marker will tell us if the men user [TS]

  burned into his OLED TV so I would [TS]

  suspect that yes [TS]

  oh let iPhones are going to have image [TS]

  retention issues the same exact way is [TS]

  the LCD iPhones at the very least you [TS]

  know I don't see if oh I've had less [TS]

  image retention issues and then LCD it [TS]

  seems like something that you know but [TS]

  you'd be hearing about instead but I [TS]

  hear the opposite that oh oh let watch [TS]

  out image retention so no matter how [TS]

  well the whoever manufactures these [TS]

  screens does surely it will have the [TS]

  same image retention on average as all [TS]

  the other iPhones now I I don't know [TS]

  from year to year device to device [TS]

  manufacturer to manufacturer how the [TS]

  image retention has varied on iOS [TS]

  devices I try not to look for it I see [TS]

  it occasionally still mostly on my iPad [TS]

  I don't know that's because it's I you [TS]

  know I use my iPad more because the [TS]

  screen is bigger and it's easier to pick [TS]

  up on these things but I think most [TS]

  people don't know that LCDs have managed [TS]

  retention on their iOS devices and so [TS]

  therefore I'll probably won't notice [TS]

  that are on there oh let's oh I know [TS]

  what measure should we take to prevent [TS]

  it don't use your device you won't [TS]

  notice any retention [TS]

  Wow I mean like what can you do like [TS]

  this [TS]

  you know what can you do to prevent like [TS]

  if you put an image on your screen and [TS]

  you leave it there for a long time but [TS]

  like that's often what we do with our [TS]

  phones is leave an image there for a [TS]

  long time whether you're reading a big [TS]

  page in an e-book and it takes you a [TS]

  certain amount of time to read a page or [TS]

  you're looking at a video and like my [TS]

  children you refuse to put the video in [TS]

  full screen the surrounding frame of the [TS]

  YouTube that's not video is static the [TS]

  whole time you're watching a 20 minute [TS]

  video no like with my television I can [TS]

  tell you as a long time plasma TV owner [TS]

  I don't play video games with a static [TS]

  HUD if I can help it on my big [TS]

  television I don't leave the television [TS]

  pause like I don't hit the pause button [TS]

  on a TiVo or whatever and then leave the [TS]

  room for five minutes [TS]

  if I'm going to leave like Apple TV has [TS]

  a screen saver that will turn on which [TS]

  is actually a useful thing for me [TS]

  because it's actually saving my screen [TS]

  but if I'm gonna leave the room for more [TS]

  than you know two minutes I turn off the [TS]

  television yeah I'll have to turn [TS]

  everything else off just turned the [TS]

  power off on television then turn it [TS]

  back on when you come in but that [TS]

  doesn't apply to iOS devices because [TS]

  it's not like you're leaving it paused [TS]

  you're leaving the room and the screen [TS]

  will turn off and a minute anyway to [TS]

  save your battery so I don't think [TS]

  there's anything anybody can do about it [TS]

  we just have to cross our fingers and [TS]

  help the first batch of these things [TS]

  don't end up having weird discoloration [TS]

  or image retention issues and hope that [TS]

  you get to them but from the good screen [TS]

  manufacturer if there is such a thing [TS]

  this time around and I'll just deal with [TS]

  it okay and finally tell me about [TS]

  Apple's silence on net neutrality the [TS]

  posts on OS news.com asking where's [TS]

  Apple on this hole and the neutrality [TS]

  thing we talked about it I think last [TS]

  show and unlike lots of other issues [TS]

  Apple is not a particularly loud [TS]

  cheerleader in favor of net neutrality [TS]

  to the point where the you know question [TS]

  was also where it does Apple say on this [TS]

  and like I don't know I've never heard [TS]

  them say anything of substance about net [TS]

  neutrality at all again unlike many [TS]

  other issues then this post goes on to [TS]

  speculate why that might be at Apple as [TS]

  it incumbent with the potential you know [TS]

  lots of money and lots of digital goods [TS]

  that they want to send over the wires [TS]

  the like neutrality would favor them [TS]

  because they do have the money to pay [TS]

  anybody and I can get an edge [TS]

  competitors and blow of all sorts of [TS]

  sort of conspiracy theories or whatever [TS]

  but as the biggest tech company in the [TS]

  world I feel like they should be much [TS]

  more vocal than they are I shouldn't be [TS]

  here thinking where does Apple stand [TS]

  neutrality I should already know because [TS]

  they should already have blocked out [TS]

  their web pages and maybe they did that [TS]

  and I'm just missing it I don't know [TS]

  Danny [TS]

  you guys we might recall anything from [TS]

  Apple about a neutral TF er no no yeah I [TS]

  don't know that's disappointing well I [TS]

  mean I don't fault them for like not [TS]

  making their pages black and stuff on [TS]

  certain days because like Apple does not [TS]

  respond well to social pressure to make [TS]

  them change their stuff for the sake of [TS]

  some you know someone else's terms like [TS]

  that's apples not gonna play a ball with [TS]

  that but it's not someone else doing it [TS]

  like they they changed the homepage when [TS]

  George Harrison died like it shouldn't [TS]

  it should be intrinsic not extrinsic [TS]

  should be them deciding that net [TS]

  neutrality is important you know [TS]

  therefore they are going to do this not [TS]

  that they feel PP they feel PP to put [TS]

  George Harrison them no it's just [TS]

  something they decided to do as a [TS]

  company and I hope that that still is [TS]

  within the company that these important [TS]

  causes and important days make the token [TS]

  effort express the values of your [TS]

  company and that Tim Cook's Apple has [TS]

  been doing that iam we talked about this [TS]

  more than Steve Jobs as Apple like [TS]

  expressing the values of the company [TS]

  externally in a in a more bold way that [TS]

  seemed to be more about Tim Cook's [TS]

  values maybe Tim Cook doesn't value net [TS]

  neutrality I don't know if you've never [TS]

  heard him talk about it it's hard to say [TS]

  there's a quote from him in this article [TS]

  that just as a bunch of nothing so [TS]

  doesn't tell you anything we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by aftershokz bone [TS]

  conduction headphones go to ATP [TS]

  aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

  aftershokz headphones work by bone [TS]

  conduction so small transducers rest in [TS]

  front of your ears not inside or around [TS]

  your ears like most headphones and they [TS]

  send mini vibrations through your cheek [TS]

  bones directly to your inner ear [TS]

  bypassing your ears and eardrums [TS]

  completely so unlike every other kind of [TS]

  headphone bone conduction leave your [TS]

  ears completely open with nothing in [TS]

  them so this brings some major benefits [TS]

  in practice so first of all a lot of [TS]

  people like me can't wear earbuds or [TS]

  in-ear monitors because they actually [TS]

  hurt they physically hurt our ears over [TS]

  time [TS]

  aftershokz headphones don't have this [TS]

  problem because nothing is in your ear [TS]

  there are so awesome for exercise and [TS]

  hot weather they stay in place very [TS]

  easily with movement unlike earbuds for [TS]

  me and because they don't cover your ear [TS]

  up I actually find them far less sweaty [TS]

  than regular headphones and if I do [TS]

  sweat or if it starts raining I don't [TS]

  need to care because they are ip55 [TS]

  certified for water resistance and the [TS]

  biggest difference for me with with [TS]

  aftershocks is that and this is the big [TS]

  factor that you should determine whether [TS]

  they are right for you at all is that [TS]

  because nothing is blocking your ears [TS]

  you hear all of the sound of the world [TS]

  around you so they're not great in very [TS]

  loud surroundings but they are awesome [TS]

  if you want to listen to a podcast or [TS]

  take a phone call while you're doing [TS]

  something like walking or running or [TS]

  cycling where you really need to hear [TS]

  the world around you for your own safety [TS]

  or convenience and they also work great [TS]

  if you need to listen for something [TS]

  outside at home or at work while you [TS]

  want to listen to a podcast or maybe [TS]

  maybe if while you're taking a phone [TS]

  call maybe your kids are asleep upstairs [TS]

  and you want to hear if they need [TS]

  anything or maybe you're expecting a [TS]

  package and you don't want to miss a [TS]

  knock on the door bone conduction [TS]

  headphones are incredibly useful tools [TS]

  for I would say listening to podcasts [TS]

  and taking phone calls when you don't [TS]

  want to block out the world around you [TS]

  so check out the flagship model in the [TS]

  aftershocks lineup this is the Trek's [TS]

  titanium I've had one of these for a few [TS]

  months and I find myself using it more [TS]

  than any other portable headphone in the [TS]

  summertime and they are so good at [TS]

  minimizing sweatiness and letting me [TS]

  hear what's going on in the world around [TS]

  me battery life is quoted at six hours [TS]

  of playback 10 days in standby that [TS]

  sounds right to me and with my [TS]

  experience I charged over a few days and [TS]

  I've never run out of power [TS]

  also all aftershokz headphones have a 2 [TS]

  year warranty so check it out the [TS]

  aftershocks trex titanium retails for [TS]

  130 bucks but listeners of this show can [TS]

  snag a pair for just 99 95 by visiting a [TS]

  tepee aftershocks calm that's a tepee [TS]

  aftershocks calm thanks to aftershocks [TS]

  for sponsoring our show so we are [TS]

  recording Monday the 17th which is [TS]

  unusual we usually record on Wednesdays [TS]

  and we'll be recording again I think on [TS]

  Thursday yes on Thursday the 20th and [TS]

  this is because of its some vacation [TS]

  stuff and since we have all these [TS]

  vacations that are kind of [TS]

  inconvenient for the purposes of [TS]

  recording the show we thought we would [TS]

  do our possible and you all don't really [TS]

  call it a tradition but it's sort of [TS]

  becoming a tradition ask a teepee and do [TS]

  a Q&A with listeners so rather than [TS]

  asking us or asking you guys rather to [TS]

  inundate us with email we are taking a [TS]

  page out of the my Curley playbook and [TS]

  instead we would like you to use Twitter [TS]

  if at all possible if you please [TS]

  and tweet with the hashtag ask a teepee [TS]

  a ska teepee and if you tweet into the [TS]

  ether with hashtag ask a teepee then it [TS]

  will be added to a nice little document [TS]

  and we will go through it and hopefully [TS]

  read and answer your question sometime [TS]

  is it next step so that we're doing this [TS]

  is that right so the we have planet for [TS]

  next episode however I would like to say [TS]

  with all with the greatest apologies to [TS]

  the upgrade podcast for totally ripping [TS]

  them off I would like to make this a [TS]

  regular segment that I think we should [TS]

  have asked a TP in every show people ask [TS]

  those questions all the time yeah but [TS]

  isn't the joy not having to answer them [TS]

  okay not to be mean or anything but like [TS]

  you're right people do ask those [TS]

  questions all the time but you can [TS]

  understand how often people ask those [TS]

  questions it would be a full-time job [TS]

  for multiple people to try to answer all [TS]

  the questions that are asked to us it's [TS]

  just not possible we don't have to [TS]

  answer all of them but right right right [TS]

  so this don't think this is gonna [TS]

  suddenly make it so that we're gonna [TS]

  answer all your questions but hope that [TS]

  I mean the plan so like we'll answer [TS]

  point zero zero one percent instead of [TS]

  point zero zero zero percent right yeah [TS]

  like like every week we could answer one [TS]

  or two questions like depending on how [TS]

  long the answers are like because I feel [TS]

  like that would help prevent us from [TS]

  getting too much hmm in our own selves [TS]

  about our topic selection and would [TS]

  prevent us from getting too far into [TS]

  just endless cycles of follow up every [TS]

  episode like just have a segment that is [TS]

  just that is guaranteed to be something [TS]

  fresh even in a very slow news period [TS]

  like the summer time by the way this [TS]

  thing we're gonna out going to answer [TS]

  these shows in the next episode we're [TS]

  actually gonna answer this show the [TS]

  answer these questions on August 4th the [TS]

  recording on August 4th come and swim on [TS]

  your next episode maybe [TS]

  I'm just gonna do the whole point is [TS]

  you've got like three weeks to send [TS]

  questions so go nuts yeah and I mean the [TS]

  truth of matter is whether Marco or John [TS]

  wins this Civil War as to whether or not [TS]

  this becomes a regular thing no I [TS]

  totally for it being a regular segment [TS]

  I'm just saying like it don't expect I'm [TS]

  saying to the listeners don't have [TS]

  unrealistic expectations that your [TS]

  questions are gonna get answered because [TS]

  we get so many questions that it's just [TS]

  not possible to answer them all or even [TS]

  even any reasonable portion of it that [TS]

  is true but either way we will have a [TS]

  Google document a Google sheet I guess I [TS]

  should say that will track all of these [TS]

  for us so please go to Twitter if at all [TS]

  possible and use ahead and use the [TS]

  hashtag ask ATP if you don't have access [TS]

  to Twitter then now's a good time to [TS]

  sign up follow que cela CAS ey li SS and [TS]

  also tweet hashtag sk TP but really if [TS]

  you can't and won't suffer through [TS]

  twitter yes you can email us but now you [TS]

  are dodging the official list and it is [TS]

  extraordinarily unlikely unless your [TS]

  question is perfect in every way that we [TS]

  will answer your questions so the [TS]

  pressures that's cold man I just I don't [TS]

  want to get a bazillion emails please no [TS]

  well and the great thing about about [TS]

  Twitter is that it forces you to be [TS]

  brief you know because we don't like we [TS]

  already have a segment of the show where [TS]

  we read multi paragraph emails to you we [TS]

  we don't need to add more so instead if [TS]

  the the an ideal question it should [TS]

  probably be about one sentence and [TS]

  Twitter is great for that so we look [TS]

  forward to your questions with all [TS]

  apologies to the upgrade podcast for [TS]

  ripping off the segment from them you [TS]

  can use more than one tweet though [TS]

  because I feel like there's no tweet [TS]

  storm but 2040 is you take the hash tag [TS]

  already sometimes you just need you know [TS]

  last time we did Q&A I thought we had [TS]

  some really good questions they were [TS]

  like two sentences long that wouldn't [TS]

  fit in a tweet and I don't want to [TS]

  exclude those John that's the challenge [TS]

  that's that's the that's the price you [TS]

  pay to getting your stuff mentioned on [TS]

  air so that's the challenge [TS]

  listeners 140 characters minus seven so [TS]

  what is 133 characters you have to put a [TS]

  space for the hashtag that's true I [TS]

  don't [TS]

  make it happen formatting counts and [TS]

  make sure you get your casing right [TS]

  because let me tell you you don't want [TS]

  John siracusa on your case about casing [TS]

  especially if you're Casey anyway you [TS]

  like a letter U instead of Y oh you [TS]

  forget okay let's uh let's talk briefly [TS]

  about one password because there seems [TS]

  to be a bit of a kerfuffle that's [TS]

  happened over the last week or two and I [TS]

  don't get it and it kind of makes me [TS]

  angry so my understanding having not [TS]

  read deeply into this is that one [TS]

  passwords windows version the latest [TS]

  Windows version no longer supports [TS]

  writing to local vaults and I should [TS]

  probably take a half step back actually [TS]

  so one password is the password manager [TS]

  it's the one that I use it's probably [TS]

  the one that my two co-hosts use yeah I [TS]

  don't want to say that for certainty oh [TS]

  yeah John you're using keychain like an [TS]

  animal aren't you [TS]

  I declined to comment really whichever [TS]

  second is oh no Gary the privacy client [TS]

  clown is so yeah anyway [TS]

  all right well some of us on this show [TS]

  who will remain nameless definitely not [TS]

  SH Marco or SH Maisie definitely use one [TS]

  password and and one of the things that [TS]

  one password has started offering which [TS]

  I think we talked about in the past is [TS]

  family plans and business plans and so [TS]

  the idea here is that the way one [TS]

  password works is that they call kind of [TS]

  a group of passwords and other things as [TS]

  well a vault that's you could think of [TS]

  that kind of like a database and you can [TS]

  pay them money on a recurring basis as a [TS]

  employer or as just a family member and [TS]

  you can have a one or more of these [TS]

  vaults or databases stored on one [TS]

  password servers and then you can have [TS]

  users that are added to your account and [TS]

  then you can share passwords so as an [TS]

  example [TS]

  Shmi and Sharon might have a one [TS]

  passwords per family account where [TS]

  hypothetically they slash we would have [TS]

  individual vaults for our own individual [TS]

  passwords that we don't wish to share [TS]

  and one family vault for passwords that [TS]

  we do wish to share and in my opinion it [TS]

  has worked extremely well I think the [TS]

  one password apps and all the platforms [TS]

  are very well designed I think they're [TS]

  super great [TS]

  the agile bits folks seem to be really [TS]

  good I think they deserve recurring [TS]

  revenue from me and that's why I am a [TS]

  paying subscriber to 1password families [TS]

  my employer pays for one password four [TS]

  teams basically on my recommendation I [TS]

  really like it I really think it's great [TS]

  and among other things and I don't know [TS]

  the specifics about how the mechanism [TS]

  here but one of the things they've said [TS]

  is that in broad strokes they use a very [TS]

  similar encryption scheme as iCloud does [TS]

  so even if one password as a company or [TS]

  actual bits as a company wanted to get [TS]

  into your passwords that are stored on [TS]

  their servers there is nothing they can [TS]

  do to do that without your guess what [TS]

  one password so they've come out the new [TS]

  version for Windows they have stated [TS]

  publicly that this version will not let [TS]

  you write to vaults or databases that [TS]

  are stored locally and yeah and you have [TS]

  to understand that one password kind of [TS]

  came up by being by being able to store [TS]

  its password database its vault in [TS]

  Dropbox so you could have your passwords [TS]

  synced everywhere even without their [TS]

  services so a bunch of angry nerds some [TS]

  of whom are cheap and some of whom are [TS]

  not are getting very angry about the [TS]

  fact that you can't have local vaults on [TS]

  one password for Windows and thus it's [TS]

  clear without a shadow of a doubt that [TS]

  tomorrow or soon thereafter you won't be [TS]

  able to save two local vaults on any of [TS]

  the other platforms now my read on this [TS]

  is that yes there will probably come a [TS]

  time that you will not be able to use [TS]

  local vaults one password because if [TS]

  you're agile bits you probably want [TS]

  recurring revenue to continue to make [TS]

  really world-class apps and thus you're [TS]

  probably going to want to compel your [TS]

  users to pay you on a regular basis and [TS]

  you know what I'm cool with that because [TS]

  they do really great work they take it [TS]

  very seriously and they deserve a little [TS]

  bit of my money every year as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned but oh man the Nerds are very [TS]

  upset so let me start with Marco as a [TS]

  hypothetical one password user Gary the [TS]

  privacy clown I would never disclose [TS]

  whether or not Marco is publicly Marco [TS]

  what do you think you know a similar [TS]

  issue came up when TextExpander went [TS]

  subscription I believe about a year ago [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah with an it was met with [TS]

  similar anger and we talked about on the [TS]

  show too [TS]

  but but I think it's increasingly clear [TS]

  that there are very few models for [TS]

  software to sustain itself economically [TS]

  because the reality is we talked with [TS]

  before so I'll be brief software [TS]

  requires ongoing maintenance it like [TS]

  people have this idea that I'm just [TS]

  gonna buy this app and I'll pay you up [TS]

  front and I don't want to pay [TS]

  subscription I want I want to just pay [TS]

  you once then I own it and that's that's [TS]

  a wonderful idea and for a long time in [TS]

  computing that was somewhat reasonable [TS]

  but today those same people who only [TS]

  want to pay once upfront and then quote [TS]

  own it also expect the manufacturer of [TS]

  said software to constantly issue [TS]

  updates whenever the environment changes [TS]

  so a new OS version comes out they [TS]

  expect a free upgrade a new you know new [TS]

  features come out you know they expect [TS]

  that on a regular basis any kind of [TS]

  service based component that has to [TS]

  change with the times they expect all [TS]

  that to be built in ongoing bug fixes of [TS]

  course like people expect ongoing work [TS]

  for an upfront one-time price [TS]

  indefinitely and that's just not [TS]

  sustainable it's simple as that like no [TS]

  matter what people say they might say I [TS]

  just want to buy it in at once a lot of [TS]

  people do say that but what they want [TS]

  what they demand is ongoing maintenance [TS]

  of that product so the only way to make [TS]

  this work really is either to just have [TS]

  so many paid installs and upgrades that [TS]

  you couldn't just last on that for a [TS]

  while and just accept that you're gonna [TS]

  make you know 40 bucks from some [TS]

  customers up front and then they won't [TS]

  bother you again and some customers will [TS]

  be using your product for eight years [TS]

  and never give you another dime and [TS]

  expect constant free updates and you'll [TS]

  just have to kind of average it out and [TS]

  hope the average works out and that [TS]

  works more often than not in the growth [TS]

  phase of a product so in the beginning [TS]

  when like for for a new app or a or just [TS]

  a very successful app that can work for [TS]

  a long time like when I had Instapaper [TS]

  that works for a long time because it [TS]

  was just growing like crazy as the iOS [TS]

  platform was growing like crazy so the [TS]

  pay once and get free updates forever [TS]

  model worked for a long time and [TS]

  1password probably has a similar curve [TS]

  here where you know for a while one [TS]

  password has been growing I think [TS]

  because I just keep seeing it everywhere [TS]

  assume it's been doing really well for a [TS]

  few years but these markets are [TS]

  saturating Mac sales are flat iOS sales [TS]

  are leveling off it's pretty [TS]

  significantly over the last few years [TS]

  you know these markets are saturating [TS]

  and so everyone who was depending on [TS]

  that constant growth of the platform to [TS]

  just drive new licenses for a pay once [TS]

  business model I think a lot of those [TS]

  companies are gonna now face this [TS]

  problem of you hey you know what we're [TS]

  seeing this curve flatten out now our [TS]

  income might be dropping or leveling off [TS]

  and we are still having to support this [TS]

  software with a staff and with costs and [TS]

  with ongoing maintenance there has to be [TS]

  some way to fund that and if you're not [TS]

  being able to fund it through the new [TS]

  users coming in that you didn't have [TS]

  before giving you this you know these 30 [TS]

  40 bucks at a time for the for the [TS]

  one-time license then subscriptions [TS]

  really are the best way to do it now [TS]

  there is an alternative you can do paid [TS]

  upgrades which one password has done for [TS]

  awhile and most these companies that [TS]

  like on the met on iOS it's less common [TS]

  but on the Mac that's how things have [TS]

  worked for a while but paid upgrades [TS]

  have their own problems too for instance [TS]

  you have this weird like feature [TS]

  batching incentive where you as the [TS]

  software developer are incentivized not [TS]

  to really improve the existing version [TS]

  of the app in meaningful ways if you can [TS]

  save those up for the next paid upgrade [TS]

  then you have to like batch up your your [TS]

  releases and possibly not put out [TS]

  anything for like two years then all of [TS]

  a sudden have this boom big drop where [TS]

  you drop a whole bunch of features then [TS]

  you have other problems like feature [TS]

  bloat then he's like what you know look [TS]

  what happened with Microsoft and Adobe [TS]

  after for the last 20 years I'd say [TS]

  lots of companies have gone through this [TS]

  and what you end up coming oh and also [TS]

  like users who hate subscriptions who [TS]

  say they never want to pay that users [TS]

  have similar problems with upgrade [TS]

  pricing because there's problems with [TS]

  that too like neither of these things is [TS]

  perfect for what users expect the [TS]

  upgrade pricing has the problem of what [TS]

  if you buy it and then the next version [TS]

  comes out six months later should you [TS]

  get more of a discount then like someone [TS]

  who bought it five years ago because you [TS]

  just bought it you might be really mad [TS]

  if [TS]

  if the upper a comes out soon after you [TS]

  bought it you might expect that your [TS]

  ancient version running on like OS 10 [TS]

  Tiger should still work today on the [TS]

  newest version of OS 10 but they might [TS]

  say you might you sorry you have to pay [TS]

  an upgrade for the new one like sorry [TS]

  there's problems with that too [TS]

  what it rolls what really boils down to [TS]

  is when you make people pay they'll [TS]

  grumble about it no matter how you make [TS]

  people pay they're going to grumble [TS]

  about it and the one thing they'll [TS]

  grumble about the most and get really [TS]

  mad about is when you change the way you [TS]

  make them pay but once you can get past [TS]

  that that problem of hey people are all [TS]

  mad right now during this transition [TS]

  once you get past that and you're on the [TS]

  other side of the transition if you are [TS]

  moving to subscriptions yeah people will [TS]

  be mad and some people will never buy it [TS]

  again [TS]

  they'll be so mad they'll hold that [TS]

  grudge forever I mean look adobe has [TS]

  this problem right with with Creative [TS]

  Cloud stuff but adobe doing great right [TS]

  now because they made this transition [TS]

  they're doing fantastically they are [TS]

  better off on the other side of it even [TS]

  though some people are still mad and [TS]

  will be mad forever about solutions some [TS]

  people will never use it as a result but [TS]

  the people who are left they're making [TS]

  Adobe more money and they're and adobe [TS]

  is in a healthier place now [TS]

  same thing with Microsoft I think with [TS]

  office and that kind of stuff and so [TS]

  honestly I haven't been paying attention [TS]

  to this entire kerfuffle or to whatever [TS]

  happened with TextExpander I don't know [TS]

  if smile for release numbers or give any [TS]

  indication on whether they're doing [TS]

  better now with the new subscription [TS]

  model as they were before but if one [TS]

  password or or smile you know if these [TS]

  companies can go can get to the other [TS]

  side of this transition and if even if [TS]

  they lose customers along the way they [TS]

  will probably be in a better place [TS]

  financially and will be more stable than [TS]

  they were before with the old you know [TS]

  pay maybe every few years for a paid [TS]

  upgrade model and so even if this loses [TS]

  them customers it still might be the [TS]

  best approach to take now that being [TS]

  said there are complicating factors with [TS]

  this particular arrangement one password [TS]

  because of the nature of it is dealing [TS]

  with this extremely [TS]

  sensitive data that a lot of a lot of [TS]

  customers have either requirements or [TS]

  requests that the vault that is being [TS]

  that the database of your passwords not [TS]

  leave their network and they've had [TS]

  forever this local vaults feature where [TS]

  you can you can literally not use a sync [TS]

  service at all you can have basically [TS]

  like your Mac sync its local vault over [TS]

  the local Wi-Fi to your iOS devices or [TS]

  you can have or you just not use sync at [TS]

  all and and just you know not use it on [TS]

  iOS or whatever and a lot of companies [TS]

  that's the method they have to use I've [TS]

  heard here and there that some groups [TS]

  with an apple use one password but and [TS]

  they they depend on that feature being [TS]

  there because they you know Apple I [TS]

  don't think would permit its employees [TS]

  to have passwords stored on some [TS]

  external service or synced via Dropbox [TS]

  or anything like that so I do think one [TS]

  password moving to a subscription [TS]

  pricing model is totally fine and yeah [TS]

  people are gonna get mad but it's that's [TS]

  probably fine and by the way they [TS]

  haven't said they're doing that all [TS]

  they've they basically just like laid [TS]

  some groundwork in some commentary that [TS]

  suggests that they're considering that [TS]

  in the future but they're not they [TS]

  haven't actually said that yet but [TS]

  anyway I do think a move to subscription [TS]

  pricing is probably fine and probably [TS]

  the right move for a lot of software [TS]

  companies that that require ongoing work [TS]

  for their products to work and by the [TS]

  way you might say person listening who [TS]

  hates descriptions you might say well [TS]

  it's just a password manager why do I [TS]

  have to pay every month for this well [TS]

  what happens when the new version of [TS]

  Chrome comes out and their extension [TS]

  breaks they have to fix their extension [TS]

  what happens when a new and when like [TS]

  people find websites the extension [TS]

  doesn't work on and they have to fix [TS]

  that new versions of iOS come out and [TS]

  they have to update to 64-bit or [TS]

  whatever like there's oh there's [TS]

  constantly ongoing work here one [TS]

  password is a very complicated app with [TS]

  lots of different components [TS]

  it runs on many different operating [TS]

  systems and it runs in every web browser [TS]

  and it runs an iOS extensions and like [TS]

  it's it's on all these different [TS]

  platforms all these different parts of [TS]

  it that are all too interdependent and [TS]

  have to interact with the way [TS]

  have to interact with the way [TS]

  AB which is a constantly changing [TS]

  environment so they have to put constant [TS]

  efforts that whether you realize it or [TS]

  not if they stopped or if your version [TS]

  stopped getting updates you'd be mad [TS]

  because it wouldn't work as well so [TS]

  subscription pricing I'm on board with [TS]

  that and by the way I do pay for this [TS]

  eruption I started paying for it that's [TS]

  six months ago when I started reducing [TS]

  my dependence on Dropbox I switched to [TS]

  their sync system and it's been totally [TS]

  fine however the removal of local vaults [TS]

  if that is the plan I think that's a [TS]

  mistake for this app because that will [TS]

  probably cost them a lot of customers [TS]

  that can never come back even if they [TS]

  change their mind about how they want to [TS]

  pay so I do think they should probably I [TS]

  mean they know better than whether than [TS]

  I do [TS]

  what their customers want but me sitting [TS]

  over here as an armchair observer [TS]

  I think removing local vaults is [TS]

  probably a bad idea but subscription [TS]

  pricing is fine I think the reason they [TS]

  might be tempted to entangle these two [TS]

  things is current pricing and the the [TS]

  whole cloud sync or whatever is that [TS]

  companies still feel for all a lot of [TS]

  the reasons that you just mentioned that [TS]

  they want to have a story about why [TS]

  you're paying every month and any kind [TS]

  of cloud sync thing where they store [TS]

  your data on their servers that they run [TS]

  it's like oh well you're paying us every [TS]

  month because we're taking your data and [TS]

  we're storing it in our servers and we [TS]

  have to pay money to run those servers [TS]

  and it's like it's it's something you [TS]

  can explain to people have a better [TS]

  chance of explaining to people like why [TS]

  am I paying for this every month right [TS]

  but in reality the reason they need you [TS]

  to pay for every month is everything [TS]

  that Margo just said it's nothing to do [TS]

  with oh we have to run servers there's [TS]

  no servers involved whatsoever it is [TS]

  entirely local vaults and direct [TS]

  device-to-device sync and they didn't [TS]

  run any servers you should still pay the [TS]

  monthly like in the same way that you [TS]

  would for like Photoshop or whatever [TS]

  because that's the business model that [TS]

  allows them to continue to support their [TS]

  software and it's kind of one of the [TS]

  goals I feel like modern software [TS]

  applications is to become valuable [TS]

  enough that people will pay you monthly [TS]

  obviously artists who make their living [TS]

  you know in Photoshop or illustrator or [TS]

  whatever it's a no-brainer as a business [TS]

  expense that they make more money you [TS]

  know if they're experts in Photoshop and [TS]

  I like [TS]

  well I'm gonna learn an entirely new [TS]

  graphics program or find something else [TS]

  that I can do move working because I [TS]

  don't want no you'll totally pay the [TS]

  monthly fee because that's how valuable [TS]

  Photoshop is for your work and for [TS]

  things like password managers or you [TS]

  know maybe text editors in some cases or [TS]

  whatever some sort of integral tool [TS]

  that's like it's not just a frivolous [TS]

  thing that you have on your Mac that you [TS]

  kind of like it's like no I can't get my [TS]

  work done without this even something [TS]

  like slack where if your whole company [TS]

  starts using slack and like your company [TS]

  runs on slack you realize it's like [TS]

  valuable enough to our company for us to [TS]

  pay whatever slack is charging for it [TS]

  like and there's a limited number of [TS]

  those types of applications you can't [TS]

  look in your Applications folder and say [TS]

  oh I'm gonna pay a subscription for [TS]

  every single of those out so you won't [TS]

  they're not all that valuable to you so [TS]

  if you're making software these this in [TS]

  these days it should be your goal to be [TS]

  one of those applications is valuable [TS]

  enough for people to pay a subscription [TS]

  fee for it and a password manager I [TS]

  think is definitely in that category of [TS]

  things because we all have lots of [TS]

  passwords and we want to store them [TS]

  securely and we want it to be convenient [TS]

  but also you know not vulnerable and [TS]

  like don't want to have to think about [TS]

  the security we want an application that [TS]

  has a long life a company that has a [TS]

  reputation for security that's not owned [TS]

  by you know an advertising company or [TS]

  something like that and so I feel like [TS]

  one password will eventually do well if [TS]

  I can get through this transition [TS]

  because people are motivated to pay them [TS]

  money on a recurring basis just so they [TS]

  don't get bought up by some evil [TS]

  corporation or aren't tempted to sell [TS]

  the personal information and do [TS]

  something dumb and like a lot of the [TS]

  stuff with that you know the clouds sink [TS]

  and you know I don't want to type my one [TS]

  password into a webpage because who [TS]

  knows what could be happening like in [TS]

  the end you have to trust the company [TS]

  that makes one password because they [TS]

  control the field that you're typing [TS]

  your one password into and you don't [TS]

  know what they're doing with that they [TS]

  could be grabbing all your keystrokes [TS]

  and sending it off to someone for you [TS]

  know but they're not like that's why you [TS]

  buy from them because you know this is a [TS]

  company that's good I trust their [TS]

  reputation right so I think their [TS]

  customer waste would be enough in the [TS]

  customer base will be willing to pay [TS]

  them a recurring subscription even if [TS]

  there was no server involved like you [TS]

  don't need to convince them oh we'll run [TS]

  servers for you and do it like [TS]

  local vault only in fact maybe they were [TS]

  willing to pay more for the fund with [TS]

  fewer features so this is an interesting [TS]

  case because like Margot was saying [TS]

  they're not just any random application [TS]

  they're a specific kind of application [TS]

  with specific privacy concerns that [TS]

  makes it so that like cloud sync or [TS]

  cloud storage is almost a demerit [TS]

  against them in terms of privacy and it [TS]

  should not be tied in any way to their [TS]

  recurring revenue so yeah easy for us to [TS]

  say perhaps computer nerds who like love [TS]

  to pay for software or software [TS]

  developers ourselves who you know make [TS]

  our living some other people paying for [TS]

  our software but you know when I talk to [TS]

  non computer enthusiasts the people who [TS]

  just you know they're not into computers [TS]

  at all they have a phone obviously they [TS]

  have maybe they have a computer or [TS]

  whatever the idea of paying anything at [TS]

  all ever for software still seems alien [TS]

  to a lot of people so again the you know [TS]

  the strategy is to both become valuable [TS]

  enough that people are willing to pay [TS]

  and probably to make an application that [TS]

  appeals to people who are acquainted [TS]

  with the concept of paying money for [TS]

  software yes don't make an application [TS]

  that appeals greatly to people who have [TS]

  never paid for software and think it's [TS]

  ridiculous to do so because even if you [TS]

  make an application that they all love [TS]

  they'll never pay you for it it's bad [TS]

  make make an application people who are [TS]

  willing to pay for software and make it [TS]

  your application valuable enough for [TS]

  them that they're willing to pay on a [TS]

  recurring basis and it's just a question [TS]

  of finding the right price I'll be [TS]

  saying I could have pay $700 a month for [TS]

  a password manager unless maybe you know [TS]

  it's some SuperDuper secure one that has [TS]

  some sort of you know legal indemnity it [TS]

  goes with their so it probably cost them [TS]

  more than $70 a month right but they pay [TS]

  one cent a month so find the right [TS]

  number between 1 cent and $700 and you [TS]

  know I mean like that that's part of how [TS]

  adobe has managed their pricing where [TS]

  like you know Creative Suite is [TS]

  something like 50 bucks a month if you [TS]

  buy the whole thing and you know it goes [TS]

  down from there if you only need parts [TS]

  of it but if you if you were buying it [TS]

  before you like in the [TS]

  they have priced it such that it [TS]

  actually is fairly comparable to if you [TS]

  were actually just buying it every [TS]

  version or two before now a lot of the [TS]

  customers weren't buying it at all a lot [TS]

  of them pirating it and a lot of them [TS]

  were also not buying every version like [TS]

  that you know they would skip versions [TS]

  or they would buy one and use it for six [TS]

  years because they just didn't care [TS]

  about the stuff in the new versions or [TS]

  they didn't want to spend the money or [TS]

  they couldn't for the money whatever [TS]

  else but for the most part they set the [TS]

  pricing of the subscription such that if [TS]

  you were buying it already it actually [TS]

  is a sensible price and that's why I [TS]

  subscribe to Adobe Creative Suite [TS]

  because I was buying them already and so [TS]

  it ended up like yeah this is actually [TS]

  totally fine and yeah for them like I I [TS]

  think they can set a price that makes [TS]

  sense here I honestly don't even [TS]

  remember what I'm paying them because [TS]

  it's too much for me to pay for I can [TS]

  tell you that because I have cs6 the [TS]

  last non-cloud version sorry one [TS]

  password is what I'm talking about oh oh [TS]

  it's five dollars a month for the family [TS]

  plan three dollars a month for the [TS]

  individuals that's okay that's totally [TS]

  fine [TS]

  I think there might be a discount if you [TS]

  go a year at a time I'm not positive [TS]

  about that so I might be wrong but I [TS]

  mean five dollars a month a soda at a [TS]

  regular restaurant like when John is [TS]

  feeling really really saucy and wants to [TS]

  get himself a sprite at a restaurant [TS]

  that's probably 250 and he's literally [TS]

  pissing that away a few hours later this [TS]

  is five dollars I mean this is not a lot [TS]

  of money but that isn't how people think [TS]

  about it like that you know you know [TS]

  people think about this at all but yeah [TS]

  I mean yeah one password being three or [TS]

  five dollars a month that's totally fine [TS]

  because you know it is a power user [TS]

  productivity security tool that is often [TS]

  used by businesses like all of those [TS]

  words are things that things that can [TS]

  make paying for software you know [TS]

  valuable and reasonable and yeah the [TS]

  it's this is no brainer to me like just [TS]

  to to ensure that this app is [TS]

  financially healthy and here for the [TS]

  long haul [TS]

  three dollars a month is totally fine we [TS]

  are sponsored this week by hover go to [TS]

  hover comm /a tp'ing at 10% off your [TS]

  first purchase hover is domain names for [TS]

  your ideas when you have a great idea [TS]

  for a blog or a store or a new site you [TS]

  need to give it a great domain name and [TS]

  hover makes it very very easy to find a [TS]

  wonderful domain name that's available [TS]

  and set it up very easily so when all [TS]

  you need to do is buy a domain name or [TS]

  an email address you shouldn't have to [TS]

  go through page after page of add-ons [TS]

  and decline them all hover only offers [TS]

  domains and email so and that's all you [TS]

  need you can focus on finding a great [TS]

  domain name and getting back to work on [TS]

  your great idea [TS]

  hover also believes you shouldn't have [TS]

  to pay for things that should be [TS]

  included just by common sense so unlike [TS]

  most domain providers hover includes [TS]

  free Whois privacy with all supported [TS]

  domain so that way your registration [TS]

  information which by default is is [TS]

  public but in other registrar's that's [TS]

  published you know for anybody to see [TS]

  hover hide that with Whois privacy by [TS]

  default on all domains it's supported so [TS]

  they make it very very easy for you to [TS]

  sign up and it's just common sense stuff [TS]

  and it's very easy to use very [TS]

  well-designed they have over 400 domain [TS]

  extensions that you can end your name [TS]

  with so no matter what your name is you [TS]

  can find something that's available so [TS]

  they have classics like ComNet they also [TS]

  have some more specialized ones like dot [TS]

  design and dot tech and there's also [TS]

  they're really kind of crazy funny ones [TS]

  that are recently added like dot pizza [TS]

  and dot ninja there's so many available [TS]

  however will make it easy to find a [TS]

  domain that's available for you and they [TS]

  make it very easy to set up once you [TS]

  have it they have a feature called hover [TS]

  connect which lets you automatically set [TS]

  up any kind of common settings with [TS]

  common web host so you don't have to [TS]

  like dig through help articles and [TS]

  figure out which DNS settings work with [TS]

  your host they have all this built into [TS]

  hover connect and if you do by the way [TS]

  if you need to manually set things up [TS]

  there interface for it is wonderful I've [TS]

  used it a lot of times myself and it's [TS]

  great just very easy to use and if you [TS]

  need a hand with any of this hovers [TS]

  awesome support team is there to help [TS]

  you you can give them a call if you want [TS]

  to or of course you can email if you [TS]

  call them an actual person takes up the [TS]

  phone there's no annoying phone freeze [TS]

  or transfers a person just picks up and [TS]

  they can help you it's amazing so check [TS]

  that today go to hover comm slash ATP [TS]

  they have so many great feature [TS]

  and it's such a pleasure to use hover I [TS]

  use it myself and I absolutely love it [TS]

  check it out today hover comm slash ATP [TS]

  will get you 10% off your first purchase [TS]

  hover domain names for your ideas hi [TS]

  Marco tell me about what's going on with [TS]

  overcast these days because I have I [TS]

  feel like I haven't heard much which [TS]

  means either you're not working or more [TS]

  likely you're working a lot and you're [TS]

  just keeping it all quiet I'm mostly not [TS]

  working because you know summer however [TS]

  when I am working I I have a dilemma and [TS]

  I talked about it under the radar [TS]

  recently but but in case you know the [TS]

  listener base of that is not the [TS]

  listener base of this so there are [TS]

  people who haven't heard it and I [TS]

  haven't heard what you who probably [TS]

  won't care and especially what John who [TS]

  probably has an opinion about this think [TS]

  about this so my my main dilemma with [TS]

  updating overcast to iOS 11 is iOS 11 [TS]

  adds drag-and-drop stuff to the standard [TS]

  system widgets oh I have opinions about [TS]

  this I definitely have opinions you can [TS]

  now full time reorder table views and [TS]

  collection views in iOS if if the app [TS]

  supports it and supporting it is very [TS]

  easy I already built my own full-time [TS]

  reordering system to reorder items and [TS]

  playlists and overcast so you can drag [TS]

  around episodes and you can reorder them [TS]

  right there with the little drag handles [TS]

  on the right side doing this in my way [TS]

  was an incredibly complex pile of hacks [TS]

  that works most of the time but has a [TS]

  few weird little random bugs that I just [TS]

  cannot solve and will probably never [TS]

  solve but for the most part it does work [TS]

  and it's fast and it's it's very clear [TS]

  and discoverable right there I also have [TS]

  a problem with overcast 3.0 the method [TS]

  that I chose of of tapping the the [TS]

  episode sells shouldn't expand a little [TS]

  menu like you know Tweetbot style and [TS]

  the and that the play button is one of [TS]

  the items in that menu as opposed to the [TS]

  previous behavior we're just tapping on [TS]

  an episode row would just immediately [TS]

  start playing it no matter what [TS]

  a lot of people still do not like this [TS]

  and the user base seem this seems like a [TS]

  very polarizing decision among the user [TS]

  base and it and it has not stopped [TS]

  beating polarizing it people have not [TS]

  gotten used to it that you know I am [TS]

  used to it and I like [TS]

  but a lot of people still don't and they [TS]

  seem to not be changing so it doesn't [TS]

  seem like this is a kind of thing where [TS]

  oh you'll just get used to having just [TS]

  tapped twice to play you know like a lot [TS]

  of people really hate having a tap twice [TS]

  to play so my idea is what if I replace [TS]

  the drag handle on the right side of the [TS]

  cells with a one tap play button move [TS]

  the info button that's there in [TS]

  selection mode down to where the play [TS]

  button was and you know the middle of [TS]

  that little bar menu that comes up and [TS]

  then use these systems full time drag [TS]

  rotor and control replacing my giant [TS]

  pile of hacks I think this is a good [TS]

  idea there are lots of advantages of [TS]

  doing this however one of the big [TS]

  disadvantages of doing this first of all [TS]

  it's another change people hate change [TS]

  so I'm now moving the play button again [TS]

  which even though people have been [TS]

  screaming their heads off for one for [TS]

  one tap play to come back if I give that [TS]

  to them a different group people will [TS]

  scream their heads off that I moved it [TS]

  and then the other problem is that the [TS]

  system drag and drop implementation has [TS]

  a small delay where you have to hold the [TS]

  cell down before it pops up to be [TS]

  draggable and mine before my hack job [TS]

  was instant you can just immediately [TS]

  drive it handle and you wouldn't have to [TS]

  wait so the system version of it is a [TS]

  little bit slower to activate however [TS]

  the system version will also allow me to [TS]

  put the play button on the side of the [TS]

  cell so it's so I would bring back one [TS]

  tap playing at least didn't like the [TS]

  right quarter of the cell it wouldn't be [TS]

  the full width of the cell because I'd [TS]

  still have the little pop-up menu if you [TS]

  tap the rest of the cell but if you tap [TS]

  a little right side thing that could be [TS]

  a play button and I could make the touch [TS]

  target you know pretty pretty tall and [TS]

  wide on that so people could get their [TS]

  OneTouch playback I also I could get rid [TS]

  of my giant hack which barely works now [TS]

  and is likely to break in future iOS [TS]

  updates so I think I should do this [TS]

  but how how big of a problem is it that [TS]

  that the new standard of reordering [TS]

  method has a small delay before you [TS]

  activate it this is not a question and I [TS]

  really really love under the radar but [TS]

  there are episodes where I switch from [TS]

  loving and listening [TS]

  to hate listening and under the radar [TS]

  because I so deeply disagree with one or [TS]

  both of you and I started this [TS]

  particular episode which I believe is [TS]

  number 87 I'll have a link in the show [TS]

  notes it's never longer than 30 minutes [TS]

  so let's get started anyway uh the this [TS]

  episode I started a hate listening and [TS]

  then ended up just listening and [TS]

  enjoying because my opinion spoiler [TS]

  alert is that you talked yourself into [TS]

  implementing this using the new api's by [TS]

  the end of the episode now it sounds [TS]

  like maybe that isn't quite so cut and [TS]

  dried since you're talking about it with [TS]

  us now but to me this is not even a [TS]

  question [TS]

  this is absolutely using you API and a [TS]

  meeting and there's a couple reasons for [TS]

  that number one it may feel weird now [TS]

  that you have a little bit of a delay [TS]

  and whatnot but I don't think it will [TS]

  feel weird soon now in your defense [TS]

  drag and drop I suspect is going to be a [TS]

  lot less prevalent on the iPhone than it [TS]

  is on the iPad so those of us who [TS]

  perhaps only he's overcast on the iPhone [TS]

  and maybe don't use iPads that often it [TS]

  may feel a little weird at first and [TS]

  like you said moving the UI around is [TS]

  always gonna tick somebody off but more [TS]

  than somebody well you know what I mean [TS]

  many somebody's off but as someone who [TS]

  really really really dislikes [TS]

  third-party libraries because you feel [TS]

  like you have no control over them and [TS]

  oftentimes they are pile of hacks and [TS]

  really it's kind of a dangerous position [TS]

  to put yourself in to have a third-party [TS]

  library especially one that's like [TS]

  really really um I can't think the way [TS]

  to phrase it but like it's wide reaching [TS]

  and it's it's taking a system thing and [TS]

  it's totally rejiggering it and you're [TS]

  like wed to this library you have [TS]

  created your own first party equivalent [TS]

  of that and you must burn it with fire [TS]

  as soon as you possibly can this is not [TS]

  a question you must get rid of it you [TS]

  must use new api's end a meeting John [TS]

  what do you think what a question and if [TS]

  you use the native dragging thing can [TS]

  you do a thing where you like whatever [TS]

  tap and hold so it like it pops up and [TS]

  ieave you've grabbed it can you with [TS]

  another finger flick scroll the stuff [TS]

  behind it yes and it's amazing so it [TS]

  solves your problem of like this of the [TS]

  bump bump bump bump bump scrolling speed [TS]

  so you have to do it then and you can [TS]

  pick up multiple items well yeah I don't [TS]

  think I don't be doing that too much but [TS]

  maybe on the iPad but yeah no you [TS]

  totally need to do the native things I [TS]

  think the native native dragging yes [TS]

  alright the second question is okay so I [TS]

  do native Gregg now I have these two [TS]

  options I don't need the drag handles [TS]

  anymore or whatever what do I do with [TS]

  that space and for that I think I'll [TS]

  have to use it to see what it's like I [TS]

  understood what you're getting out of [TS]

  the pay but I didn't play about I'll be [TS]

  over here the info button will be in a [TS]

  little you know expanded bar thing maybe [TS]

  that will be fine maybe will be weird I [TS]

  don't know I think it's worth separating [TS]

  like determined determining like exactly [TS]

  what to do with this newfound space and [TS]

  freedom and gesture freedom because I'm [TS]

  not entirely sure but native and drop [TS]

  you know seems like a no-brainer like a [TS]

  city get rid of your hacks it's it's a [TS]

  better interface and as drag-and-drop in [TS]

  theory becomes more prevalent into what [TS]

  people will expect so just do it [TS]

  and I also forgot to mention that I am [TS]

  one of those people who is still grumbly [TS]

  about the fact that there's a to tap [TS]

  play scheme and so bringing back the [TS]

  play button on the right will make me [TS]

  very happy and we all know that overcast [TS]

  is written specifically to make KC happy [TS]

  so yeah I think you're I think you're [TS]

  gonna have to do it Marco if I do that [TS]

  can can you stop asking me for a Mac up [TS]

  well when's the last time I've asked you [TS]

  for one cuz every you know I'll tell you [TS]

  yeah I'll tell you when the last time I [TS]

  asked for a Mac app was probably about a [TS]

  day or two before I got my air pods [TS]

  because now the reason I wanted a Mac up [TS]

  so badly was because you know the [TS]

  Bluetooth headphones that I was using [TS]

  previously we're such a pain to switch [TS]

  between my Mac and my iPhone but now [TS]

  with the air pods it takes two seconds [TS]

  to switch between them so what I'm [TS]

  listening to overcast I'm connected to [TS]

  my phone and when I'm listening to [TS]

  anything else in the world I'm connected [TS]

  to my Mac and it's nowhere speaking of [TS]

  apps that Marco doesn't want to develop [TS]

  and/or maintain I have a report for the [TS]

  Mac version or another or the web [TS]

  version of overcast Oh God alright so [TS]

  frequently people will tweet over gas [TS]

  links with offsets which is cool it's [TS]

  like that's exactly what you want I'm [TS]

  gonna tap this link and it's going to [TS]

  take me right to the second in the [TS]

  podcast that they're trying to refer me [TS]

  to right as long as this is a major NPR [TS]

  podcast yes yeah but if it is a podcast [TS]

  that I subscribe to and in the middle of [TS]

  listening [TS]

  - is it just my imagination or does that [TS]

  throw off my offset because I'm logged [TS]

  into my over assed account and it sent [TS]

  me to an offset and I play it it syncs [TS]

  that offset and now I've lost where I [TS]

  was because I was earlier or later and [TS]

  the thing is that a thing or is my [TS]

  imagination that is indeed what happens [TS]

  and I've thought about this before like [TS]

  whether that should be what happens or [TS]

  not and it it's it's hard because it's [TS]

  like if you when you put it this way [TS]

  yeah that shouldn't happen you're right [TS]

  but what would the alternative be and it [TS]

  would you say okay well what should [TS]

  happen like if you're if you're logged [TS]

  in and if you have this podcast in your [TS]

  list so it so it's not unplayed or [TS]

  rather it's not played like it's it's an [TS]

  active item in your list and you have a [TS]

  position in it then you get sent a [TS]

  timestamp link for different time in [TS]

  that then should it play that but then [TS]

  not ever update your synced position [TS]

  what if you play past your synced [TS]

  position should it update it then like [TS]

  it's it's fairly complex as to what it [TS]

  should do and so I haven't really [TS]

  addressed it yet what do you think it [TS]

  should do I think it should pretty sure [TS]

  it should just not update the the synced [TS]

  position only if you go to a link with [TS]

  an offset in it but I can't think of a [TS]

  scenario where I would I would at the [TS]

  playhead would be at some non-zero [TS]

  position in the podcast right I think is [TS]

  the tricky bit that you're talking about [TS]

  is like I haven't started playing it [TS]

  then I'm not quite sure what to do but [TS]

  if I have started to play it I think [TS]

  it's pretty clear that you and I go to [TS]

  an offset I want to play from that [TS]

  offset in the web player and have it not [TS]

  affect my other offset because I can't [TS]

  think of a scenario where I would want [TS]

  it to affect it why would why would I [TS]

  formulate an overcast web link for [TS]

  myself to jump to an offset with the [TS]

  intention of me going fair now if the [TS]

  thing is at the zero position I haven't [TS]

  started playing and I go to an offset to [TS]

  listen to a thing I personally would [TS]

  also like it not to update the thing [TS]

  because very often what happens is it [TS]

  does update it and then I will go to [TS]

  that episode and it'll start playing a [TS]

  bit like I guess I listened to the [TS]

  beginning of this one huh because here I [TS]

  am in the middle of it like I'll forget [TS]

  I don't realize no I just I just missed [TS]

  the entire beginning because of that [TS]

  offset link that I followed like you [TS]

  know three days ago or whatever so [TS]

  my solution obviously is just just if [TS]

  you just run your web browser in [TS]

  incognito mode or whatever when you tap [TS]

  that link it you know you won't be [TS]

  logged into overcast or log yourself out [TS]

  of overcast [TS]

  that's a terrible solution I know but [TS]

  anyway if you're just looking for the [TS]

  quick fix quick fix is offset in URL [TS]

  equals never sync playhead position and [TS]

  then just make a different set of people [TS]

  angry I think that's right actually that [TS]

  that actually sounds like a really good [TS]

  solution that yeah because if if there's [TS]

  an offset in New York because the [TS]

  regular web interface does not put those [TS]

  off it's there so if there's an offset [TS]

  in the URL just don't touch the synced [TS]

  position at all yeah I think that makes [TS]

  sense to me too yeah so like it's kind [TS]

  of like the one tap to play like you for [TS]

  a few years make one set of people angry [TS]

  and then you just put you back and then [TS]

  for a few more years make those at [TS]

  people angry and then yeah I think you [TS]

  know so really how many people use the [TS]

  web interface right honestly very few [TS]

  it's it's a very like just get all of us [TS]

  in the chat room that actually might be [TS]

  possible like it's it's very few people [TS]

  like and every time somebody tweets a [TS]

  web link with overcast there are [TS]

  responses that are like oh my god I [TS]

  don't know how to have web interface [TS]

  like no one knows it's there and even [TS]

  the people who do know it's there no one [TS]

  uses it and yes that part of that is [TS]

  because it's pretty bare-bones and I [TS]

  could make it a lot better or more or [TS]

  more full-featured if I put a lot of [TS]

  work into it but it's kind of chicken [TS]

  and egg thing like part of the reason I [TS]

  don't put a lot of work into it is that [TS]

  nobody uses it [TS]

  I'm also glad you don't Chuck me into [TS]

  the app because that's the other option [TS]

  that most people would do yeah that's no [TS]

  there's a web interface but it [TS]

  immediately knows but you have the app [TS]

  installed and Chuck's it to the app [TS]

  because does I certainly don't want you [TS]

  to go into the app again if you're [TS]

  playing if it's an episode that I [TS]

  haven't started playing it or a one that [TS]

  I'm in the middle of I don't want it to [TS]

  go into my app and change my playhead [TS]

  position like inside the app if you if [TS]

  you did send to the app I would say go [TS]

  to the app but open a totally alternate [TS]

  one time like you just saw it an offset [TS]

  like player interface that is [TS]

  disconnected entirely with the actual [TS]

  listening interface because when you [TS]

  follow a link with an offset someone's [TS]

  trying to show you something in an [TS]

  episode it is clearly not the same as I [TS]

  am listening to the episode they're [TS]

  trying to say here's this little snip [TS]

  right here listen to this bit right and [TS]

  that I feel like is a different activity [TS]

  then I'm gonna now listen to the next [TS]

  episode of my favorite podcast [TS]

  alright thanks to our three sponsors [TS]

  this week hover fracture and aftershocks [TS]

  and we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental oh it was accidental johnny [TS]

  research Margo and Casey wouldn't [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental you can find the show today [TS]

  CAS II WA L is Esther that's Casey less [TS]

  and a are Co a RM auntie Marco Arment [TS]

  are [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  so I I felt left out with you having [TS]

  your impulse purchases uh-oh and so and [TS]

  so Aaron and I bought a car tonight whoa [TS]

  wait like during the show well not not a [TS]

  car right well okay so I would call it a [TS]

  truck but Aaron would correct me and say [TS]

  no it's not a truck it's an SUV like a [TS]

  big sneaker really sorry tennis shoes oh [TS]

  that's so cruel I don't really get why [TS]

  people are me but like people who call [TS]

  SUVs trucks I feel like that's unearned [TS]

  like a truck is a truck like if it [TS]

  doesn't have like a bed on it like [TS]

  that's not a truck yeah and that's [TS]

  exactly what Aaron would say probably [TS]

  verbatim to me anything that is taller [TS]

  than a car is a truck I'm not saying I'm [TS]

  right like I'm not trying to convince [TS]

  the listeners or anyone or you to I'm [TS]

  not saying I'm right it's just the way [TS]

  I've always thought of it which which is [TS]

  probably bananas but but yeah we we a [TS]

  few hours ago bought Aaron a brand new [TS]

  Volvo xc90 and it's very nice and we're [TS]

  very happy and aaron is sad that she's [TS]

  left her mazda6 behind we bought her a [TS]

  Mazda 6 couple months after we got [TS]

  married and so that car has been in the [TS]

  family from knew that the the Mazda 6 [TS]

  that is for almost exactly 10 years we [TS]

  brought it home at the end of August of [TS]

  2007 and we let it go today and it said [TS]

  it's weird right because of course just [TS]

  a thing right it's the machine but it's [TS]

  kind of makes you sad when you see one [TS]

  go especially well mark oh you wouldn't [TS]

  know about this because you don't keep [TS]

  cars for more than two minutes but for [TS]

  those of us who keep cars for a while [TS]

  like John and me yes it's uh it's it's [TS]

  sad to see one go because it's been a [TS]

  part of the family for so darn long I [TS]

  totally get it I have felt that as well [TS]

  and yeah I mean I I almost cried when I [TS]

  gave up the m5 like it I liked it so [TS]

  much like well Indu had a very unique [TS]

  experience in that car so yeah I mean [TS]

  sheshe was weepy I was on the verge of [TS]

  weepy and it's funny because I I mean I [TS]

  liked her Mazda [TS]

  me wrong it was a very nice car in in [TS]

  more than anything else it has given us [TS]

  or had home it had given us no problems [TS]

  in its ten years in I mean I think we [TS]

  had to do an alternator once but [TS]

  everything else was routine maintenance [TS]

  I mean it was bulletproof which is [TS]

  probably a Japanese thing in that you [TS]

  know most Honda's I've heard about are [TS]

  bulletproof most Toyota's or seem to be [TS]

  bulletproof and this Mazda is was [TS]

  certainly bulletproof there's one [TS]

  individual Mazda 6 was bulletproof and [TS]

  so so yeah so I was sad to see it go but [TS]

  really excited to have the new car I [TS]

  only have one question and you know what [TS]

  it is it is not why not there was a [TS]

  brief window of time where as I've [TS]

  described and as you do not like to [TS]

  agree but IIIi was backed into white on [TS]

  my most recent car not the prior ones [TS]

  the prior ones were more deliberate than [TS]

  not but oh really it was only a Subaru [TS]

  that was delivered anyway go with some [TS]

  neutral and you'll get the the story but [TS]

  I happens to be white yeah well the BMW [TS]

  happen to be white and a couple of the [TS]

  other cars happen to be white the Subaru [TS]

  was a deliberate choice but anyway this [TS]

  one is silver we wanted well maybe more [TS]

  me than her I don't think she cared that [TS]

  much [TS]

  I wanted a deeper gray which happens to [TS]

  be what her Mazda was but but for this [TS]

  one we ended up can I can I complain for [TS]

  a moment please [TS]

  can I whine if that's what this show is [TS]

  about you know yeah really [TS]

  can I whine for a minute about how awful [TS]

  it is to buy a car although I hear Tesla [TS]

  it's just you go online in your price [TS]

  and you pick it out and that's that I [TS]

  don't know I don't want to hear about [TS]

  yeah because it just makes order from [TS]

  Tesla is like ordering from Amazon like [TS]

  it's literally like Add to Cart buy [TS]

  that's me so sad it makes me so sad so [TS]

  when we bought Aaron's Mazda we started [TS]

  the process in I think it was like [TS]

  August of 2016 give or take a month and [TS]

  we bought in August of 2017 and we [TS]

  literally haggled with the dealer for a [TS]

  year to get her car because we just [TS]

  refused to budge on the price that we [TS]

  wanted so we walked into the local [TS]

  dealer at the end of December last year [TS]

  I can't recall an exact day it doesn't [TS]

  really matter but at the very end of [TS]

  December I believe it was between [TS]

  Christmas and New Year's I think and [TS]

  today on the 17th of July we brought the [TS]

  car home I have spent the last since [TS]

  Thursday or Friday I have spent all day [TS]

  every day [TS]

  emailing every dealer between [TS]

  Philadelphia and Greensboro North [TS]

  Carolina trying to get a good deal on [TS]

  this car now before anyone complains yes [TS]

  I did this to myself but what ended up [TS]

  happening was I emailed all these [TS]

  dealers saying look what's your best [TS]

  out-the-door price I don't I don't don't [TS]

  even worry about a trade-in [TS]

  just tell me with tax with everything [TS]

  what is your best out-the-door price and [TS]

  you would think that that would be easy [TS]

  but of course it's not because their job [TS]

  is to not give me their best out the [TS]

  door price their job is to give me their [TS]

  crappiest out the door price and hope [TS]

  that I that I agree to it so what ended [TS]

  up happening long story short is I got [TS]

  our Richmond dealer in a bidding war [TS]

  with a couple other dealers and we were [TS]

  mostly the victors and so eventually we [TS]

  got this car at an extreme well I think [TS]

  of an extreme discount and I'm really [TS]

  pleased with that [TS]

  additionally valiant and you have to [TS]

  understand that Aaron has never been a [TS]

  particular fan of my car like she thinks [TS]

  it's fine but she hates BMW drivers [TS]

  because well we're all jerks and and so [TS]

  she's never really been a tremendous fan [TS]

  of my car [TS]

  guess what cars saved her several [TS]

  thousand dollars because of a Volvo [TS]

  promotion that's going on right now my [TS]

  BMW if you have no in a BMW Lexus Audi [TS]

  etcetera you can get a multi-thousand [TS]

  dollar discount on a brand new Volvo so [TS]

  hmm how about them apples wait do you [TS]

  trade it in or just buy you owning it [TS]

  just by owning it because they're trying [TS]

  to they're trying to get owners of other [TS]

  luxury marques mark Sparky's whatever [TS]

  those things get luxury owners to come [TS]

  to Volvo and so just by having one in [TS]

  the family we got I think was three [TS]

  thousand dollars off which is pretty [TS]

  awesome Wow so that was pretty cool but [TS]

  yeah buying a car is terrible [TS]

  it's terrible it's just a friggin [TS]

  nightmare from start to finish I mean if [TS]

  I didn't care about the cost of the car [TS]

  it'd be great no worries but it's [TS]

  terrible because not only buying a house [TS]

  the dealer's one and only job is to get [TS]

  asthma to extract all of the money from [TS]

  you and your one and only position is to [TS]

  try to extract as little as possible [TS]

  from from your own wallet so you know [TS]

  like miss the Baron in the chat is [TS]

  saying well could I've just paid MSRP [TS]

  sure I could have but that would have [TS]

  been I almost ten thousand dollars more [TS]

  than we paid like no that's no I'm not [TS]

  made of money so no I'm not going to do [TS]

  that oh my god I hate I hate buying a [TS]

  car I just I don't want to do it for a [TS]

  long time and that's why I think that in [TS]

  part of the reason I mean Aaron who [TS]

  loved her Mazda as I said but part of [TS]

  the reason that she didn't want a new [TS]

  car was because she did want to go [TS]

  through this and it's just it's a [TS]

  freaking nightmare I hate it so what [TS]

  kind of silver did you get I think it's [TS]

  just silver silver I forget that what [TS]

  the official silver metallic osmium gray [TS]

  metallic no be Umbra is what I really [TS]

  thought would be good oh that the color [TS]

  options on this car are friggin terrible [TS]

  unless you get into like the super gray [TS]

  metallic no I believe it was just silver [TS]

  the osmium is what I thought looked the [TS]

  best of the available options so it's a [TS]

  xc90 momentum which is the cheapest xc90 [TS]

  they make however within xc90 Momentum's [TS]

  you can get 5 v seat or 7 seat and we [TS]

  got the 7 seat one with the bright [TS]

  silver metallic we like I was starting [TS]

  to say we I thought the osmium gray [TS]

  actually looked better but um but we [TS]

  ended up with silver because that's the [TS]

  one that the dealer could get their [TS]

  hands on and make a deal a good deal on [TS]

  what engine you get so you get T 5 or t6 [TS]

  so it's 86 which is because as soon as [TS]

  you go third row that means you're [TS]

  getting a t6 so it's a t6 all-wheel [TS]

  drive so it's you've had to get the fast [TS]

  engine [TS]

  well not exactly so here's the thing the [TS]

  xc90 ranges from forty or forty five [TS]

  thousand dollars to a hundred in ten [TS]

  thousand dollars or something like that [TS]

  I saw that it's like a Porsche could [TS]

  just double the price of the car with [TS]

  options that's it yeah because well what [TS]

  it is is they make a version I forget [TS]

  the name of [TS]

  doesn't a great thing yeah well but not [TS]

  only is it a v8 hybrid but beyond that [TS]

  it's actually a four seater [TS]

  so the back is just blocked off and it's [TS]

  clearly like an executives I'm going to [TS]

  be chauffeured in the SUV sort of thing [TS]

  but anyway so yeah so ours was ours we [TS]

  started as cheap as you could go in [TS]

  terms of the trim and then made it seven [TS]

  seats so that makes it slightly fancier [TS]

  and then it's actually pretty darn well [TS]

  optioned which is great so it has pretty [TS]

  much all of the the bits and bobs that [TS]

  we could possibly want but it's pretty [TS]

  cool I mean I haven't driven this one [TS]

  yet we did do an overnight test drive [TS]

  several months ago of a less loaded one [TS]

  and you know it does have car play which [TS]

  I've played with very briefly when we [TS]

  test drove it and it was really nice [TS]

  there are definitely problems with it [TS]

  but it was really nice it has like the [TS]

  bird's-eye view it has a heads-up [TS]

  display so a lot of it is a lot of it is [TS]

  very similar to the m5 actually or [TS]

  reminds me of the m5 but I'm really [TS]

  looking forward to it it has a heated [TS]

  steering wheel with which we've never [TS]

  had before it parks itself which is [TS]

  something we've never had before it's [TS]

  got an automatic just like the new m5 [TS]

  watching that but that makes me sad with [TS]

  what they've done to the m5 is sad [TS]

  indeed [TS]

  oh and it's both supercharged and [TS]

  turbocharged how about that that's [TS]

  possible yeah so I I didn't even read [TS]

  into this much but I I think the the [TS]

  idea is that the supercharger which is [TS]

  belt driven is good for low rpm like [TS]

  when you're just taking off and then the [TS]

  turbocharger is better once you've got [TS]

  some some motion going and once you have [TS]

  some RPMs it can do both because [TS]

  turbocharger is exhaust driven so right [TS]

  you know no competition for things that [TS]

  are driving the things that are blowing [TS]

  air and here engine indeed but I you [TS]

  know Aaron and I we got next to each [TS]

  other one week so I drove to the Volvo [TS]

  dealer and she drove separately to the [TS]

  Volvo dealer and then you know we were [TS]

  going to grab a late dinner afterwards [TS]

  and I got next to her at a stoplight and [TS]

  she took off with not any particular [TS]

  quickness but I could hear that [TS]

  supercharger whine coming from a Volvo [TS]

  again I would call it a truck I know [TS]

  it's not a truck but coming from a Volvo [TS]

  SUV and it's just like what why is that [TS]

  noise coming from it's just it's so [TS]

  weird [TS]

  but anyway so yeah so so far so good I [TS]

  mean we didn't really get a chance to [TS]

  play with it since we got home we got [TS]

  home put Declan to bed I had to do a [TS]

  little homework for analog which we're [TS]

  recording tomorrow I played in the car [TS]

  for two minutes [TS]

  realized they screwed up the [TS]

  registration on the car which is going [TS]

  to be delightful to work out and then [TS]

  came upstairs to record this so at a [TS]

  glance super nice we're really excited [TS]

  but I hate I hate buying cars you guys [TS]

  it's the worst well I think you know but [TS]

  you have to come to peace with in order [TS]

  to buy cars without having this just [TS]

  massive you know anxiety and negativity [TS]

  but the whole thing is that there's no [TS]

  way to buy a car and not lose a bunch of [TS]

  money like you're losing it somewhere [TS]

  you know somehow you're losing a bunch [TS]

  of money because a car is not an [TS]

  investment [TS]

  it's a giant depreciating usable you [TS]

  know disposable eventually asset so [TS]

  there is no way to own a car and have it [TS]

  not cost you a lot of money in some way [TS]

  mm-hm and so and all the different ways [TS]

  you can buy it you know different [TS]

  financing options leasing versus buying [TS]

  they're they're all just you're gonna [TS]

  lose a lot of money somewhere and when [TS]

  you go into the dealer you know that you [TS]

  know for a dealer if it hasn't you go [TS]

  Sheila prices which is most of them you [TS]

  know that they're gonna make a profit [TS]

  somewhere off of you you know like and [TS]

  and you eat you can look at it two ways [TS]

  you can look at it as well you know they [TS]

  got to make money to they have people to [TS]

  pay whatever else do you can also look [TS]

  at it as every cent I give them is me [TS]

  losing money unnecessarily because I [TS]

  don't care about them I just want this [TS]

  vehicle yeah and I feel both of those [TS]

  things and when you're talking about [TS]

  large amounts of you know large amounts [TS]

  of money like like you are with car [TS]

  margins like it's hard to feel a lot of [TS]

  sympathy for the person that you spent [TS]

  15 minutes talking to to think that they [TS]

  suddenly deserve $6,000 yes look you [TS]

  might you know you actually know I think [TS]

  I'll give you you know 100 bucks of this [TS]

  Marchant and I want the car for invoice [TS]

  like yeah that's it so you're right [TS]

  there's this constant pressure between [TS]

  like what you want and what they want [TS]

  but I feel like at some point in order [TS]

  to go through this and not feel horrible [TS]

  like you do right [TS]

  now like you just bought a new car well [TS]

  your wife just bought a new car and so [TS]

  you have a new car in the family and [TS]

  that's really cool for both of you and [TS]

  yeah and and this should be an [TS]

  unquestioned celebration especially [TS]

  given how rarely you guys buy new cars [TS]

  and and how much you love cars this [TS]

  should be a celebration time and instead [TS]

  you're being mad about this part of it [TS]

  or you're you're grumbly about it [TS]

  because yeah because you you know that [TS]

  somewhere you probably got screwed for [TS]

  some amount of money along the way oh [TS]

  yeah or or at least a lot of time so you [TS]

  can also think of it this way that [TS]

  dealerships don't necessarily make all [TS]

  or even most of their money from selling [TS]

  new cars so it could be that you [TS]

  happened upon a dealership in a [TS]

  situation in a particular car where the [TS]

  dealership didn't make any money off [TS]

  this sale or even lost money and they [TS]

  hope to make it up in this service [TS]

  department or you know on they screwed [TS]

  you on your trade-in or whatever it like [TS]

  they have ways to make money other than [TS]

  just raising other than just profit [TS]

  margins on cars they sell you and in [TS]

  certain situations you can get a car [TS]

  where the dealer gets little or no [TS]

  profit from the car but they will find [TS]

  some other way that they hope to get the [TS]

  money from you and so if you can [TS]

  convince yourself that you were in one [TS]

  of those situations that they let this [TS]

  go out the door for no profit in the [TS]

  hopes of making it up by charging you an [TS]

  arm and a leg for service then maybe you [TS]

  feel better about the purchase yeah but [TS]

  but I think they're you know the reality [TS]

  is you got a new car it costs a lot of [TS]

  money but you have a new car enjoy it [TS]

  and no matter how you did this it was [TS]

  gonna cost you a lot of money you know [TS]

  whether it cost you I don't know what [TS]

  this cost so you know what let's say [TS]

  whether it cost you like forty five [TS]

  thousand dollars or forty six thousand [TS]

  dollars like that's not going to you [TS]

  know if you look at it absolute terms I [TS]

  go on I might have be able to save a [TS]

  thousand dollars that's a lot of money [TS]

  but you look at in relative terms of [TS]

  what you're paying for this car it's [TS]

  like okay that's a small difference it's [TS]

  not going to make me angry for a month [TS]

  over this like let's just enjoy it right [TS]

  and I think it's it's the only the only [TS]

  emotionally healthy way to look at car [TS]

  purchases and believe me I've been on [TS]

  both sides of those like I've had a lot [TS]

  of angry car investments over time but [TS]

  you know mostly before the show happened [TS]

  I had a lot of cars and not not always [TS]

  have gone well or have been financially [TS]

  prudent but the the enjoyment you get [TS]

  out of this like that should be [TS]

  untarnished as much as possible and it's [TS]

  hard when it's this much money because [TS]

  you know it's hard to spend this much [TS]

  money and just be flippin about it but [TS]

  you love cars you've been waiting for a [TS]

  long time and talking and debating about [TS]

  which car to get for this role for Aaron [TS]

  for a very long time enjoy it just in [TS]

  just enjoy it and it's it's kind of like [TS]

  the same philosophy of John like he and [TS]

  was it wasn't you John or Merlyn talking [TS]

  about when you go to Disney to just kind [TS]

  of like know that it's gonna cost you a [TS]

  fortune and just plan for the head of [TS]

  time and then when you're there just [TS]

  enjoy it that was me [TS]

  yeah I figured as you see like I you [TS]

  kind of have to do that Casey with with [TS]

  car purchases like you know it's gonna [TS]

  cost you a fortune somehow at the end of [TS]

  it you're gonna have something that you [TS]

  love it's gonna be really nice so just [TS]

  accept it no no you're gonna get screwed [TS]

  somewhere and then try to move on from [TS]

  that or don't let it get to you so much [TS]

  and just enjoy the thing yeah it's funny [TS]

  you say that because so this you know [TS]

  the process started with you know me [TS]

  going to the dealer just cold and being [TS]

  like okay you know what do you what do [TS]

  you have roughly what it's that cost [TS]

  bubble I was it was way out of our price [TS]

  range so then we tried the Costco thing [TS]

  because Costco supposedly says okay we [TS]

  have pre-negotiated you know certain [TS]

  cars with certain options I did that the [TS]

  past two cars I bought two we did not [TS]

  impressed with their price both times [TS]

  yeah same so in when we went to the [TS]

  local dealer and said oh by the way we [TS]

  didn't tell you before we're Costco D [TS]

  people and they basically said okay [TS]

  whatever that means you get a couple [TS]

  hundred dollars off whoo [TS]

  and then we try true car and all that [TS]

  did all that is in my experience I [TS]

  shouldn't say this is though it's [TS]

  factual but in my experience all true [TS]

  car is is a sales funnel for car [TS]

  dealerships so then you get blown up [TS]

  with via email and phone with people who [TS]

  are not interested in making a deal [TS]

  they're just interested in having [TS]

  somebody new to chase whatever so what I [TS]

  ended up doing like I think I said [TS]

  earlier is I just had you know two or [TS]

  three dealers bidding against each other [TS]

  but it got to the point that once I got [TS]

  Richmond to a price point that I thought [TS]

  was fair which [TS]

  only happened because I had gotten other [TS]

  dealers to make pretty aggressive [TS]

  opening offers then at that point I'm [TS]

  like going back and forth about $100 [TS]

  here $200 there $100 hundred hours here [TS]

  200 hours there and it occurred to me to [TS]

  your point Marco what am I doing here [TS]

  like at this point I'm there right I [TS]

  mean I don't want to talk about exactly [TS]

  how much the car was but you know a [TS]

  hundred or two hundred dollars in the [TS]

  grand scheme of things on a car that's [TS]

  you know of this price is nothing well [TS]

  that's how they get you though that's [TS]

  something about things we go [TS]

  they cost thousands and thousands of [TS]

  dollars you're like well when I'm [TS]

  spending these tens of thousands when [TS]

  I'm spending five figures anyway a [TS]

  couple hundred bucks [TS]

  there's nothing whereas if you are [TS]

  spending a hundred bucks a couple [TS]

  hundred bucks on top of that you'd be [TS]

  like whoa but it's the same amount of [TS]

  money in both cases yeah I'd be really [TS]

  careful with large purchases that you [TS]

  couldn't slip into that sure I'll get [TS]

  the body-colored key fob for 500 bucks [TS]

  it's nothing compared to the present [TS]

  payments like don't do it just think you [TS]

  were doing the right thing although did [TS]

  you write you sent us a link to a [TS]

  picture is this your actual car but the [TS]

  link I put in the in the chat which I [TS]

  will not be putting the show notes is [TS]

  the actual car yeah so it looks white [TS]

  that's all I'm gonna say about it does [TS]

  look white no you're right it does this [TS]

  is a very light silver about a really [TS]

  big white no I mean I don't think it [TS]

  looks bad I I mean I don't know anything [TS]

  about SUVs really like they don't appeal [TS]

  to me so I have a hard time judging them [TS]

  but or as they go this looks pretty nice [TS]

  yeah I mean I'm looking forward to it [TS]

  well it does look y-you know that's a [TS]

  very light silver without question [TS]

  without question maybe I mean you know [TS]

  what I'll do is I'll put that one of the [TS]

  pictures in the show notes so I'm not [TS]

  gonna put the link to like the listing [TS]

  and it's probably to disappear any [TS]

  minute anyway but I'll put a link to the [TS]

  picture then people can reverse image [TS]

  search it's not gonna do you want I [TS]

  think it might just be overexposed there [TS]

  are a couple of angles where it starts [TS]

  to look silver it does look that way [TS]

  yeah but follow John's advice of that I [TS]

  love like after telling you to like try [TS]

  to reduce anxiety about this purchase [TS]

  the fact that John led with that's how [TS]

  they get you is amazing but [TS]

  the you know I feel like that's how the [TS]

  that's how they get you rationale is [TS]

  good when considering extras and options [TS]

  however when when just agonizing over [TS]

  the the bulk of this price and like the [TS]

  purchase price the asking price the [TS]

  profit margin and the invoice price all [TS]

  this stuff like this is where it's it's [TS]

  it's a good time to just say you know [TS]

  what I'm gonna be spending a lot of [TS]

  money on this I'll try to be responsible [TS]

  but it's not worth you know agonizing [TS]

  about it forever because keep in mind to [TS]

  like and this is this is one area where [TS]

  a lot of people get caught up there is [TS]

  there is a value that it might be hard [TS]

  to quantify but there is a value to your [TS]

  own mental health regarding you know the [TS]

  surrounding this so you are not only [TS]

  spending a lot of time trying to extract [TS]

  the negotiations out of the dealer's so [TS]

  like you know the first half of the time [TS]

  that you spend on that is probably worth [TS]

  it but then you get diminishing returns [TS]

  after that and so that's yeah so you [TS]

  know there's that issue of like time [TS]

  spent that it's worth keeping that in [TS]

  check and then also like if you're gonna [TS]

  get all mad about something that's a [TS]

  hundred dollars it's like okay well are [TS]

  you doing is that kinda like ruin an [TS]

  evening for you is is gonna ruin a few [TS]

  evenings is it gonna ruin a week for you [TS]

  are you gonna be mad for a week over a [TS]

  hundred dollars is that worth it to you [TS]

  are you gonna get mad in front of your [TS]

  kid about something like this how is [TS]

  that gonna make him feel is that worth a [TS]

  hundred dollars to you like there's a [TS]

  cost to you and and to to your health [TS]

  and to your family and to the mood [TS]

  around you the people around you when [TS]

  when things bother you too much and so [TS]

  sometimes it's actually worth just [TS]

  saying you know what fine I'll I'll I'll [TS]

  get screwed for the hundred bucks [TS]

  because I don't want to deal with it for [TS]

  the next week and so and I don't know if [TS]

  you did any of that cuz I wasn't there [TS]

  look she's probably a good thing but but [TS]

  a lot of people have trouble seeing the [TS]

  perspective on that and and finding that [TS]

  balance and I've had trouble with this a [TS]

  lot before or two and this is something [TS]

  I've only more recently started thinking [TS]

  more about and there's a lot of value to [TS]

  yourself being able to just move on from [TS]

  something yeah I [TS]

  I oftentimes think that that you can be [TS]

  a little cavalier about or fat maybe a [TS]

  little fast and loose about how you [TS]

  spend your money given that you impulse [TS]

  bottom you know oh this really expensive [TS]

  TV and all that jazz but III absolutely [TS]

  a hundred percent agree with you that [TS]

  the key here is to get get the purchase [TS]

  down to a place where you think you're [TS]

  not getting screwed to where you think [TS]

  you're you're doing okay and then at [TS]

  that point when you're nickel and diming [TS]

  the dealer or yourself I'm is it really [TS]

  really worth it anymore you know it got [TS]

  to the point that I was just stressing [TS]

  myself out over you know this little bit [TS]

  of money that yes $100 like I don't mean [TS]

  to say that $100 isn't a lot of money [TS]

  I'm not trying to say that at all [TS]

  $100 is absolutely a lot of money what [TS]

  I'm saying is there comes a time where [TS]

  you have to say to yourself you know [TS]

  what this just ain't worth it [TS]

  it's just not worth continuing to do [TS]

  this to yourself and that's that's where [TS]

  I eventually got is just it's it's not [TS]

  worth it for me to continue to stress [TS]

  about this and so in the end I am super [TS]

  happy about the purchase I think it's [TS]

  gonna be really great for the family I [TS]

  think I'm really looking forward to the [TS]

  car we've never had a Volvo I don't [TS]

  think anyone in our extended families [TS]

  have had a Volvo I've certainly been [TS]

  around them in the past but I'm really [TS]

  looking forward to it and at a glance it [TS]

  seems super nice it has so many bits and [TS]

  bobs from the technology point of view I [TS]

  mean it's its own it apparently like one [TS]

  of the things we did unbeknownst to us [TS]

  was the dealer signed us up for like a [TS]

  three-month trial on AT&T because the [TS]

  thing is its own Wi-Fi hotspot like yeah [TS]

  it's got carplay as I mentioned before [TS]

  it's got the I think I said it's got the [TS]

  bird's-eye view so when you park you [TS]

  know it although I don't think it's [TS]

  quite as good as the m5s was but anyway [TS]

  as you park it'll show you everything [TS]

  around you and has of course backup [TS]

  camera and all that jazz it has the [TS]

  three row seating which to answer [TS]

  somebody in the chat so the reason we [TS]

  got the third row seating is because we [TS]

  want the option of putting like friends [TS]

  or many adults or really in a lot of [TS]

  cases just having plenty of storage [TS]

  space in the back because you look at [TS]

  your average x5s trunk and it's [TS]

  not that big given how big the car is [TS]

  and I think part of the problem here is [TS]

  that Aaron's Mazda was not a terribly [TS]

  large car but had a cavern of a trunk [TS]

  it was just preposterous ly large and so [TS]

  she didn't really if she's gonna get [TS]

  this big you know SUV she's not gonna [TS]

  want to give up on that tremendous trunk [TS]

  and I don't think that's unreasonable [TS]

  so yeah so it's super nice it [TS]

  theoretically will parallel park itself [TS]

  it theoretically will perpendicularly [TS]

  park itself I think by backing in [TS]

  although I'm not a hundred percent sure [TS]

  Wow I didn't even think about that man [TS]

  if it doesn't back in I'm gonna be [TS]

  furious we have to return it exactly so [TS]

  so yeah so it's yeah I'm really looking [TS]

  forward to I say looking forward to it [TS]

  only because like I haven't driven it [TS]

  yet and we haven't really played with [TS]

  all the technology stuff yet but it's [TS]

  it's tough because here it is it's like [TS]

  such a monumental day and moment in our [TS]

  lives and it was slightly miserable [TS]

  because I was sad to see the monster go [TS]

  when aaron was devastated to see the [TS]

  monster go she wanted the new car it's [TS]

  not like I'm compelling her to get a new [TS]

  car but she was devastated to see that [TS]

  car go but you know it's also it's all [TS]

  it's like that ah thank god that's over [TS]

  with because I don't want to ever want [TS]

  to do that crap again you know it's that [TS]

  that that release that just finally and [TS]

  so yeah I'm not sure if I'm gonna do any [TS]

  sort of formal review for either the [TS]

  website or my quote-unquote YouTube [TS]

  channel I mean I have a channel that has [TS]

  a single video on it [TS]

  you can just call it your vlog it's okay [TS]

  yeah totally [TS]

  but yeah so far so good it seems really [TS]

  nice and I'm really looking forward to [TS]

  spending more time in it and getting to [TS]

  check out all the bits and bobs and [TS]

  whatnot should have thought about moving [TS]

  to a different state so you wouldn't [TS]

  have to have that stupid registration [TS]

  sticker in the middle your windshield I [TS]

  no doubt that it's not actually is the [TS]

  one in Aaron's off center yeah so I'm [TS]

  gonna say is it a little bit yeah it's a [TS]

  little bit to the left it almost doesn't [TS]

  matter because it being anywhere near [TS]

  the middle of your windshield is so [TS]

  awful to the fact that it's [TS]

  Center is like a secondary concern but [TS]

  if I move I would probably move to like [TS]

  Pennsylvania or North Carolina where I [TS]

  don't recall where the stickers are [TS]

  there but at least front damn licensed [TS]

  down drives me insane that we have to [TS]

  have those on our cars by the way I've [TS]

  seen this picture of your gloriously [TS]

  white car next to Aaron's new allegedly [TS]

  silver car that is really light silver [TS]

  to be fair but not very [TS]

  different-looking cars now I miss [TS]

  Aaron's car Aaron's car look at that [TS]

  well what a great 90s car that was [TS]

  totally a 90s car yeah it is oh I'm [TS]

  sorry I was so happy now I'm so angry at [TS]

  the two of you that's all car shaped and [TS]

  everything yeah that's awesome it [TS]

  doesn't look that different from my from [TS]

  my very well-loved 96 Maxima that I had [TS]

  mmm it's a 2007 mazda 6 you guys well [TS]

  you got to do this it doesn't mean it [TS]

  was designed 2007 [TS]