The Accidental Tech Podcast

231: I Am Not a Salad Power User


00:00:00   I'm never buying a car ever again I bet [TS]

00:00:02   that's not true that's like me saying [TS]

00:00:04   I'm perfectly happy with my computer [TS]

00:00:05   setup I'm never changing anything I mean [TS]

00:00:10   come on we know each other and we know [TS]

00:00:12   ourselves entirely accurate well done [TS]

00:00:17   sir [TS]

00:00:19   we're traveling and well two thirds of [TS]

00:00:23   us are traveling over the next three or [TS]

00:00:25   four weeks and as it turns out in as [TS]

00:00:29   with all things we accidentally [TS]

00:00:31   scheduled our vacations in a not [TS]

00:00:33   terribly convenient way basically in [TS]

00:00:35   sequence yeah basically we are we are [TS]

00:00:38   doing vacationing in serial and not [TS]

00:00:40   parallel yeah this is a this is a single [TS]

00:00:42   core single threaded vacation operation [TS]

00:00:44   here at the XML tech podcast and so [TS]

00:00:46   we're going to have to squeeze in like [TS]

00:00:48   17 weeks worth of shows in the span of [TS]

00:00:51   like three weeks not literally of course [TS]

00:00:52   but that's what it feels like and [TS]

00:00:54   because of Gary the privacy clown I'm [TS]

00:00:56   not gonna disclose any more than that [TS]

00:00:58   but suffice to say yeah we did not plan [TS]

00:01:00   well whoops it's almost like Adobe wrote [TS]

00:01:03   our schedule figure that well there's [TS]

00:01:07   nothing Adobe writes is parallel hey Oh [TS]

00:01:09   we'll be here all week except not really [TS]

00:01:11   cuz it's like I just said we're going on [TS]

00:01:14   vacation anyway how are you guys totally [TS]

00:01:17   fucked how's the dog John hanging in [TS]

00:01:21   there doing dog things how much of your [TS]

00:01:24   house remains both intact and not [TS]

00:01:26   covered in pee oh it's entirely covered [TS]

00:01:29   in pee it goes for the soft items a [TS]

00:01:34   little bit of chewing on the stairs and [TS]

00:01:38   cabinets and furniture but really mostly [TS]

00:01:41   goes for the toilet paper and stuff like [TS]

00:01:43   that [TS]

00:01:43   high-value targets soft targets you [TS]

00:01:47   shred that toilet paper make a giant [TS]

00:01:48   mess in a matter of seconds you almost [TS]

00:01:51   want to take some like pictures or video [TS]

00:01:53   but then you do have to actually clean [TS]

00:01:54   up and encourage the dog to do this but [TS]

00:01:56   it is kind of cute it's the thing that [TS]

00:01:59   puppies have puppies and babies their [TS]

00:02:01   cuteness is their defense that's [TS]

00:02:03   absolutely accurate all right let's [TS]

00:02:05   start with some follow-up and it starts [TS]

00:02:07   with Andrew Burwell who writes in to say [TS]

00:02:10   I found this website to be a [TS]

00:02:12   particularly good [TS]

00:02:13   for best TV settings and this is our [TS]

00:02:16   Tings comm slash TV we'll put a link in [TS]

00:02:19   the show notes they use calibration [TS]

00:02:21   tools on the TV and adjust each brand [TS]

00:02:23   and model of TV to its best settings [TS]

00:02:25   possible given that they're all [TS]

00:02:26   manufactured the same way you could [TS]

00:02:27   expect reasonable calibration using this [TS]

00:02:28   method they give you screenshots of your [TS]

00:02:30   particular TV menus with the settings [TS]

00:02:32   you need to use I have an ancient TV [TS]

00:02:34   that is 1080 but it is ancient and I [TS]

00:02:38   have never bothered I'm sorry Todd and [TS]

00:02:39   John I've never bothered setting it up [TS]

00:02:41   properly and I need to dig into this [TS]

00:02:44   website and see if they have settings [TS]

00:02:46   from ITV because I've never cared enough [TS]

00:02:49   to really make it work as we discussed [TS]

00:02:50   last episode and this sounds pretty [TS]

00:02:53   great that I need to check this out yeah [TS]

00:02:55   actually so after last episode and after [TS]

00:02:57   John scolded me into you know thinking I [TS]

00:03:00   needed to calibrate my TV the first [TS]

00:03:02   thing I did was not to download an app [TS]

00:03:04   to try to do it the first thing I did [TS]

00:03:05   was search the web for other people's [TS]

00:03:07   calibration settings for this TV because [TS]

00:03:09   it's a current model TV and there's a [TS]

00:03:11   lot of nerds out there who would do this [TS]

00:03:13   kind of stuff and publish their results [TS]

00:03:14   this was the first thing that came up [TS]

00:03:16   and so a few hours before the whole [TS]

00:03:19   world's are telling me to go to this [TS]

00:03:20   site I had actually already done it and [TS]

00:03:22   had tried their settings with very minor [TS]

00:03:25   modifications all I did was make it a [TS]

00:03:27   little bit brighter and make it slightly [TS]

00:03:29   closer to neutral white balance and it's [TS]

00:03:32   great and so I haven't changed it since [TS]

00:03:34   it's been wonderful so that's better [TS]

00:03:36   than nothing but I would still encourage [TS]

00:03:39   people to actually use the calibration [TS]

00:03:40   app because they say oh yeah all TV's [TS]

00:03:42   they're all the same like you know [TS]

00:03:43   there's not there's no variance in [TS]

00:03:45   manufacturing or age or anything like [TS]

00:03:48   it's it's just not true like this will [TS]

00:03:49   get you in the ballpark to actually find [TS]

00:03:51   out if your TV's kalbarri you have to go [TS]

00:03:53   through calibration of some kind and [TS]

00:03:55   these probably get really really close [TS]

00:03:57   right but even just based on like how [TS]

00:04:00   bright your room is and where the [TS]

00:04:02   windows are and if you mostly watch TV [TS]

00:04:03   during the day or the night would you [TS]

00:04:04   want to have one sort of in the middle [TS]

00:04:06   setting or have a daytime and a [TS]

00:04:08   nighttime setting and by the way look at [TS]

00:04:10   this website is way better than things [TS]

00:04:11   used to be when I calibrate it when I [TS]

00:04:13   last calibrated my TV was still more of [TS]

00:04:15   the Wild West this is so nice with like [TS]

00:04:17   the pictures of the menus and easy to [TS]

00:04:19   find your TV you don't have to go [TS]

00:04:21   through forums and download these text [TS]

00:04:22   files with the listings of all the [TS]

00:04:24   settings and stuff like that but looking [TS]

00:04:25   at the settings for Markowski [TS]

00:04:27   be on this website it shows the TV's [TS]

00:04:29   still suck where it's like well if you [TS]

00:04:32   put this setting on these settings go [TS]

00:04:34   from a menu to a slider and you can't [TS]

00:04:36   use this setting with that thing and the [TS]

00:04:38   again the words don't make any sense in [TS]

00:04:40   the menus and I don't understand why [TS]

00:04:43   they have like these Smart TVs have [TS]

00:04:45   little computers in there right there [TS]

00:04:47   running entire operating systems and yet [TS]

00:04:48   the settings are all like well only the [TS]

00:04:50   setting called PC can have these [TS]

00:04:51   settings and when you put on game mode [TS]

00:04:53   only these things are available and like [TS]

00:04:55   I mean sometimes it makes sense where [TS]

00:04:57   they're turning things off but this [TS]

00:04:59   should all be downloadable standardized [TS]

00:05:02   like even just not across all [TS]

00:05:05   manufacturers obviously but just like [TS]

00:05:06   there shouldn't be no dumb limitations [TS]

00:05:08   they don't like only the PC input can [TS]

00:05:10   support a particular color space and [TS]

00:05:11   stuff like that [TS]

00:05:12   nothing should have weird code words [TS]

00:05:14   everything should be in like normal tech [TS]

00:05:17   terms not branding terms shouldn't be [TS]

00:05:20   like warm to warm size one doesn't help [TS]

00:05:24   anybody and the weird limitations of [TS]

00:05:26   like Oh only in the ISF expert mode can [TS]

00:05:28   you change this setting but if you did [TS]

00:05:30   the standard setting these three things [TS]

00:05:31   aren't available but in this one like [TS]

00:05:32   you don't get to pick the gamma it's [TS]

00:05:34   like just just make them all the same [TS]

00:05:35   and look and and you only have like five [TS]

00:05:37   different settings like oh I've used of [TS]

00:05:38   all my settings and actually sometimes [TS]

00:05:40   you only get one setting that lets you [TS]

00:05:41   change everything but that one setting [TS]

00:05:42   doesn't let you enable game mode it's [TS]

00:05:44   like there should be an unlimited number [TS]

00:05:46   of settings it's not like a game where [TS]

00:05:48   you're trying to make it so they can [TS]

00:05:50   only have to save slots that make the [TS]

00:05:51   game art or like how is it that we have [TS]

00:05:53   these complete webOS operating system on [TS]

00:05:55   there and yet you still only have you [TS]

00:05:57   know five sets of settings and they all [TS]

00:05:59   and they're all slightly different from [TS]

00:06:00   each other so well let me provide a [TS]

00:06:02   counterpoint here have you ever gone to [TS]

00:06:04   a one of these places like chopped it's [TS]

00:06:06   like a basically like a salad assembly [TS]

00:06:08   thing like it's like Subway for salads [TS]

00:06:10   mm-hmm I have not [TS]

00:06:12   I knew Casey would have I knew Troy what [TS]

00:06:14   I've never I've never heard of this [TS]

00:06:17   thing okay so basically so when I go to [TS]

00:06:19   a place like this there you know you can [TS]

00:06:22   you can do the thing where you just [TS]

00:06:24   create your own salad from you know bare [TS]

00:06:27   parts or you can have like one of the [TS]

00:06:30   preset salads that's on the wall if the [TS]

00:06:33   only option was here is an array of 40 [TS]

00:06:37   different ingredients and you tell me [TS]

00:06:38   what kind of salad you want and I make a [TS]

00:06:40   if I went to that restaurant I I would [TS]

00:06:44   have no idea what to make I would make a [TS]

00:06:45   crap salad it would just be terrible it [TS]

00:06:47   would be bland or uncreated or would [TS]

00:06:49   have weird ratios or whatever else I [TS]

00:06:51   always order off the presets and if and [TS]

00:06:54   I might adjust things slightly within [TS]

00:06:56   one of the presets I like some guidance [TS]

00:06:58   because I am NOT a salad power user and [TS]

00:07:01   so I don't really like I need some [TS]

00:07:03   starting points some presets asking for [TS]

00:07:07   although I'm not asking for they're not [TS]

00:07:08   three presets I'm asking for there could [TS]

00:07:10   be like say there's like a thousand [TS]

00:07:11   things you can change in the TV but I [TS]

00:07:12   all means ship seventeen presets in fact [TS]

00:07:14   I would like an app store for presets [TS]

00:07:16   even like where these websites wouldn't [TS]

00:07:18   have to exist you can just but the whole [TS]

00:07:20   point is if you decide hey I want to [TS]

00:07:22   make a new setting called you know [TS]

00:07:23   Marcos setting there should be no [TS]

00:07:26   limitations like up sorry you only get [TS]

00:07:27   five settings and they're the presets [TS]

00:07:29   and if you change one of them then you [TS]

00:07:30   change one of the presets the only way [TS]

00:07:31   to get it back as a factory default [TS]

00:07:32   should be like new thing and you could [TS]

00:07:34   start like would you like this new [TS]

00:07:35   setting to start from one of the [TS]

00:07:36   standard ones sure start from the [TS]

00:07:38   whatever setting and then when you go in [TS]

00:07:39   there all thousand switches should be [TS]

00:07:41   available to you preset to whatever they [TS]

00:07:43   were from the setting you inherit from [TS]

00:07:45   there should be no limitations like oh [TS]

00:07:46   you have to name his input capital T and [TS]

00:07:48   capital C and it's the only one that can [TS]

00:07:50   show the entire you know this is the old [TS]

00:07:52   world like the only one that doesn't do [TS]

00:07:54   overscan you have to call the input PC [TS]

00:07:56   and you only get one of those sorry and [TS]

00:07:58   it has to be this particular input or [TS]

00:07:59   whatever right they should be uniform [TS]

00:08:02   and you should be able to make as many [TS]

00:08:04   new ones as you want and you shouldn't [TS]

00:08:06   lose the presets and in fact it's such [TS]

00:08:09   an easy opportunity to make presets [TS]

00:08:11   something like downloadable sinkable [TS]

00:08:13   shareable with friends like they should [TS]

00:08:15   cultivate these forums say if someone [TS]

00:08:16   wants to run some fancy calibration app [TS]

00:08:18   and make a branded setting and make it [TS]

00:08:20   downloadable you should be able to go to [TS]

00:08:22   that URL and pull down the settings for [TS]

00:08:23   whatever there should be no dumb [TS]

00:08:24   arbitrary limitations that don't make [TS]

00:08:26   any sense that's what I'm saying not [TS]

00:08:28   that you should have presets well but I [TS]

00:08:30   I respect the idea of of what is exposed [TS]

00:08:34   most of the time to me the user is [TS]

00:08:37   here's some presets and if you go into [TS]

00:08:39   them there are a few not even a lot [TS]

00:08:41   there are a few things you can tweak [TS]

00:08:43   under each one and then only in the [TS]

00:08:45   expert ones buried like three levels [TS]

00:08:47   deep even within those are all the [TS]

00:08:50   different options that you want but I [TS]

00:08:51   actually don't want most of me because I [TS]

00:08:54   know that most of those options I [TS]

00:08:55   shouldn't touch those cuz hey I don't [TS]

00:08:58   you really care and be anything I would [TS]

00:09:00   adjust there I would probably be making [TS]

00:09:02   things worse because I don't know I'm [TS]

00:09:03   doing you can hide them under to vance [TS]

00:09:05   off and just like to do an app [TS]

00:09:06   preferences you don't expose all the [TS]

00:09:07   perfect it's like you have nitpicky [TS]

00:09:08   settings like they're not not there it's [TS]

00:09:10   just that you don't see them unless you [TS]

00:09:11   really dig for them right so you put the [TS]

00:09:13   top and really honestly the things the [TS]

00:09:15   number of things you need to adjust on [TS]

00:09:16   television [TS]

00:09:16   aside from turning off stuff which is [TS]

00:09:19   kind of annoying that you would have to [TS]

00:09:20   dig through it right I mean just look at [TS]

00:09:22   the the setting preset they recommend [TS]

00:09:24   it's like every single feature this [TS]

00:09:25   television has off off off off [TS]

00:09:27   no sharpness enhancement no vibrancy no [TS]

00:09:29   edge whatever no motion anything just [TS]

00:09:32   off off off everything right it's [TS]

00:09:33   annoying that you have to do that right [TS]

00:09:35   but that aside you really just need to [TS]

00:09:38   change two or three settings brightness [TS]

00:09:40   contrast different color balance things [TS]

00:09:43   and that's it it's not like there's a [TS]

00:09:44   hundred things you can do for picture [TS]

00:09:45   quality mostly you're just turning crap [TS]

00:09:46   off so yeah by all means have a [TS]

00:09:49   hierarchy of settings have here at the [TS]

00:09:50   three or four things you probably might [TS]

00:09:51   want to change and advanced picture [TS]

00:09:53   advanced motion advanced whatever when [TS]

00:09:55   you dig down and down if you want to [TS]

00:09:57   make it higher even though things that's [TS]

00:09:58   fine but I don't like it when options [TS]

00:10:00   aren't available to you or like well in [TS]

00:10:02   this mode you get three settings for [TS]

00:10:04   this thing but in this mode you get a [TS]

00:10:05   slider that has you know five hundred [TS]

00:10:07   settings for it why we just decided [TS]

00:10:09   that's what it is you know we got a two [TS]

00:10:12   other interesting pieces of feedback [TS]

00:10:13   around this Malcolm Hall wrote in to [TS]

00:10:15   tell us that some people have been [TS]

00:10:17   buying Samsung has a product called [TS]

00:10:20   smart signage which is basically a TV [TS]

00:10:22   sized monitor and that's it so the idea [TS]

00:10:25   is you take a monitor that's you know 40 [TS]

00:10:28   50 60 70 inches but it doesn't have [TS]

00:10:31   anything smart in it presumably it just [TS]

00:10:33   has like HDMI or or equivalent and [TS]

00:10:35   nothing else there is no speakers [TS]

00:10:36   there's no smartness it's just a dumb [TS]

00:10:39   display and if you're hooking this up [TS]

00:10:41   like a sound bar or a or a stereo system [TS]

00:10:43   I mean I guess some of you could go [TS]

00:10:45   crazy enough to do surround sound but [TS]

00:10:48   anyway if you hook it up to some other [TS]

00:10:51   external speaker system then you don't [TS]

00:10:52   have to fight all the silly smartness [TS]

00:10:55   which isn't exactly what you two were [TS]

00:10:56   talking about because you two were just [TS]

00:10:57   talking about calibrating the screen but [TS]

00:10:59   but that's kind of neat and an [TS]

00:11:02   additionally safecom wrote in to say [TS]

00:11:05   that Samsung is also trying to do [TS]

00:11:07   a frame TV which is designed to look [TS]

00:11:11   like nothing at all or not a TV at all [TS]

00:11:13   until you want it to be a TV and then it [TS]

00:11:16   will go from like a still picture to a [TS]

00:11:18   regular traditional TV and that probably [TS]

00:11:22   isn't the best word picture that I've [TS]

00:11:23   just painted but we'll put links to both [TS]

00:11:25   these in the show notes I saw that video [TS]

00:11:27   but like it's so it's hard to tell from [TS]

00:11:29   video but like is it is it still like a [TS]

00:11:32   light-emitting display when it didn't [TS]

00:11:34   like the frame mode yeah that's entirely [TS]

00:11:36   like a marketing BS because there's no [TS]

00:11:39   way you wouldn't know that's a TV like [TS]

00:11:40   they always put it in lighting it's like [TS]

00:11:42   it looks just like the paintings like [TS]

00:11:43   because they put it in like a picture [TS]

00:11:44   frame like oh it's like a painting right [TS]

00:11:46   but you know it's not especially if [TS]

00:11:47   there's a LCD TV with terrible black [TS]

00:11:49   levels like that we no way there we go [TS]

00:11:51   bright sunlight shining on your wall on [TS]

00:11:53   an actual painting of a sailboat next to [TS]

00:11:56   like a sailboat picture on your [TS]

00:11:58   television I don't know who they think [TS]

00:12:00   they're fooling with that but I mean I [TS]

00:12:01   guess it looks nice if you have decor [TS]

00:12:03   things there's a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:12:04   televisions that you buy look like you [TS]

00:12:06   know whatever they look like technology [TS]

00:12:08   products they look like computer [TS]

00:12:10   equipment or whatever and if you don't [TS]

00:12:11   want that look if you want to look more [TS]

00:12:12   like a piece of furniture that some [TS]

00:12:14   people do this is a good look for your [TS]

00:12:15   television but no you're something to [TS]

00:12:17   think that people are going to believe [TS]

00:12:18   it's a painting because they will not [TS]

00:12:19   because it does not look like a TV maybe [TS]

00:12:21   it was color a ink that would work but [TS]

00:12:23   we don't have that tech I feel like any [TS]

00:12:25   any technology that tries to hide a TV [TS]

00:12:28   that's solving the wrong problem like [TS]

00:12:30   remember when when computers first came [TS]

00:12:32   out when we were all children [TS]

00:12:34   well when Casey and I were children and [TS]

00:12:35   and and a lot of times our parents would [TS]

00:12:40   make the computer live in some kind of [TS]

00:12:42   giant cabinet that would like close with [TS]

00:12:45   big door like wooden doors sometimes [TS]

00:12:47   they put TVs in there too but usually [TS]

00:12:49   like the computer was what was hidden in [TS]

00:12:50   this in this giant wooden cabinet by the [TS]

00:12:53   wall and fro and and that was like a [TS]

00:12:56   certain generation like the default mode [TS]

00:12:57   was to hide technology you know [TS]

00:13:00   oftentimes like our parents generation [TS]

00:13:02   and then now it's like well no you you [TS]

00:13:05   have to use that like that that's just [TS]

00:13:07   normal to see in a house it would be [TS]

00:13:09   weird if you saw a house that didn't [TS]

00:13:11   have a TV in it now and so I feel like [TS]

00:13:14   trying to hide a TV like it's you're [TS]

00:13:17   just kind of fighting a losing battle [TS]

00:13:17   like you're gonna either have a really [TS]

00:13:19   strange looking picture on the wall [TS]

00:13:21   or you're gonna have some kind of crazy [TS]

00:13:22   complex thing like one of those you know [TS]

00:13:25   raising and lowering things for the TV [TS]

00:13:27   slides up out of a dresser you know see [TS]

00:13:29   that like that that's just doomed to [TS]

00:13:31   break and fail and we it's you know [TS]

00:13:33   that's that's no good either like just [TS]

00:13:35   have a TV that you don't mind the look [TS]

00:13:37   of and if you don't want a TV in a room [TS]

00:13:39   don't put a TV in that room like [TS]

00:13:41   anything else besides just trying to own [TS]

00:13:43   it is is not gonna go well for you [TS]

00:13:46   same deal with baldness by the way TV's [TS]

00:13:50   bless you think that's an old thing [TS]

00:13:52   people still totally do that in the most [TS]

00:13:54   recent this old house house I recall [TS]

00:13:55   they have a television that they were a [TS]

00:13:57   putting over their fireplace which is [TS]

00:13:59   way too high for TV and B wanted to hide [TS]

00:14:01   with the set of folding doors that like [TS]

00:14:03   had a painting and to raid it into them [TS]

00:14:04   so when it was closed they're just like [TS]

00:14:06   a painting like an actual painting or [TS]

00:14:07   whatever eventually I just made use wood [TS]

00:14:09   paneled doors because I guess someone [TS]

00:14:10   talking about the painting idea but yes [TS]

00:14:12   people still want to hide their [TS]

00:14:13   televisions and I guess people don't [TS]

00:14:15   like it you know like decor wise it [TS]

00:14:17   doesn't look nice to have a big black [TS]

00:14:19   rectangle and and I think even these [TS]

00:14:21   picture frame ones to have a big monitor [TS]

00:14:23   turned on too you know a picture of a [TS]

00:14:25   sunset or something we just don't have [TS]

00:14:27   the text it's not gonna look right [TS]

00:14:28   people in the chat room are pointing me [TS]

00:14:29   to color inks yes we have color ink not [TS]

00:14:31   televisions you can't they don't show [TS]

00:14:33   motion they did to have that hybrid one [TS]

00:14:35   remember that one that was like color [TS]

00:14:36   ink but also LCD for motion so it was [TS]

00:14:39   like this weird and obviously didn't [TS]

00:14:41   catch on eventually we could have some [TS]

00:14:43   kind of display technology that does [TS]

00:14:45   reflective sort of like in the off mode [TS]

00:14:47   where you could put a picture on there [TS]

00:14:50   that would look just like a you know a [TS]

00:14:51   picture on the wall or at least it'd [TS]

00:14:52   look like a poster at very least maybe [TS]

00:14:54   or a very large photograph ad but that [TS]

00:14:57   could also do the motion of television [TS]

00:14:58   but we don't have that yet but people [TS]

00:14:59   still want to hide the TVs and I totally [TS]

00:15:01   agree with you Mariana I think it's it's [TS]

00:15:02   ridiculous to hide your television like [TS]

00:15:05   part of it is almost like you know not [TS]

00:15:08   just the decor of a big black rectangle [TS]

00:15:10   but also the idea that people don't want [TS]

00:15:13   to think of their lives as centering [TS]

00:15:16   around television like that's somehow a [TS]

00:15:18   shameful thing because of all like this [TS]

00:15:20   the television shaming from from I think [TS]

00:15:22   of both of our childhoods of like you TV [TS]

00:15:25   rots your brain and don't watch TV and [TS]

00:15:26   people you know you don't want people to [TS]

00:15:28   know how much television you watch but [TS]

00:15:30   if you don't watch that much television [TS]

00:15:32   maybe don't have a 70 inch televisions I [TS]

00:15:34   mean [TS]

00:15:34   like you know the the budget and [TS]

00:15:37   wallspace reflected by your television [TS]

00:15:38   choices are not in line with the image [TS]

00:15:40   you want to project to the outside world [TS]

00:15:41   like oh we don't even that only [TS]

00:15:43   television we don't even watch [TS]

00:15:44   television we just have the 70 inch [TS]

00:15:45   rectangle here because we were forced to [TS]

00:15:47   have it probably the neighbors I don't [TS]

00:15:50   know anyway I never want my television [TS]

00:15:52   bein and by the way those little [TS]

00:15:55   cabinets where you put your computers [TS]

00:15:56   one of the things that I think helps [TS]

00:15:58   kill those is the fact that our [TS]

00:15:59   computers are so hot now that you know [TS]

00:16:01   putting them inside an enclosed cabinet [TS]

00:16:03   would destroy everything no they were [TS]

00:16:04   hotter than because back then they were [TS]

00:16:05   CRTs yeah but like the computers [TS]

00:16:08   themselves were cooler I mean some of [TS]

00:16:09   them you know they didn't even have fans [TS]

00:16:10   over the heatsinks for the CPUs back in [TS]

00:16:13   the ya-ya series are hot too but like [TS]

00:16:17   the entertainment center for television [TS]

00:16:19   use to be like that to memory the [TS]

00:16:19   entertainment centers were for like your [TS]

00:16:22   VCR and your game consoles like those [TS]

00:16:25   were entirely enclosed too maybe they [TS]

00:16:26   had holes punched out in the back for [TS]

00:16:28   the wires to go through and most things [TS]

00:16:29   didn't get that hot like you didn't have [TS]

00:16:31   you know your Xbox 360 in there as you [TS]

00:16:33   know your the NES was not getting that [TS]

00:16:34   hot compared to modern consoles but [TS]

00:16:36   those things were not a great [TS]

00:16:38   environment for electronics and today [TS]

00:16:39   it's mostly worse because our DVR is [TS]

00:16:43   maybe not our blu-ray players but [TS]

00:16:45   certainly our game consoles are hotter [TS]

00:16:47   but the TV's like bar goes are way [TS]

00:16:49   cooler temperature wise than a CRT or [TS]

00:16:52   our plasma or anything like that so [TS]

00:16:54   those actually could go in cabinets or [TS]

00:16:56   just the now they're the thickness of a [TS]

00:16:57   piece of paper cabinets don't make any [TS]

00:16:59   sense anymore I always love to like like [TS]

00:17:01   the entertainment centers that are that [TS]

00:17:03   like our parents would have that was [TS]

00:17:05   mostly during the era of CRT TVs so like [TS]

00:17:08   they were giant like they made the [TS]

00:17:11   decision that this tremendous wouldn't [TS]

00:17:14   monolith thing in the living room that [TS]

00:17:16   was somehow better than just having a TV [TS]

00:17:20   like that was fooling nobody yeah and it [TS]

00:17:23   was and they were huge like they were [TS]

00:17:25   often way bigger than the television [TS]

00:17:26   like they were big enough that you could [TS]

00:17:27   like shelve rows and rows of VHS tapes [TS]

00:17:29   and stuff and then the other great thing [TS]

00:17:31   my parents did this too they have one of [TS]

00:17:33   their house right now you you would buy [TS]

00:17:35   one and they're expensive like [TS]

00:17:36   especially the ones that filled an [TS]

00:17:37   entire wall that's a substantial piece [TS]

00:17:39   of furniture if you got a nice one not [TS]

00:17:41   an inexpensive piece of furniture [TS]

00:17:42   because it's literally massive right and [TS]

00:17:44   if you got one you were deciding how [TS]

00:17:47   your television was going to be until [TS]

00:17:50   you know unless you want to replace that [TS]

00:17:52   huge expensive piece of furniture or you [TS]

00:17:54   know unless it's built into your house [TS]

00:17:55   right and so if you bought one before [TS]

00:17:57   HGTV you had a four by three hole for a [TS]

00:17:59   television and then you have to put a [TS]

00:18:01   sixteen by nine TV in there and so you [TS]

00:18:03   got shrunk down and if you bought before [TS]

00:18:04   televisions got really big and you could [TS]

00:18:06   just barely thick like a 40 inch HDTV in [TS]

00:18:09   there now you can't get a good TV or you [TS]

00:18:12   feel like hang out a big TV my parents [TS]

00:18:13   have to buy based on which TV will fit [TS]

00:18:15   inside their slightly dated piece of [TS]

00:18:18   furniture where they fit their [TS]

00:18:19   television some so with putting your [TS]

00:18:21   electronics inside a box of any kind [TS]

00:18:24   it's just not a particularly [TS]

00:18:25   future-proof idea and it's so true my [TS]

00:18:29   brother-in-law has a house bill Prime in [TS]

00:18:31   the late 90s I think and he has in his [TS]

00:18:36   family room our living room where ever [TS]

00:18:37   he has like I guess he could call to [TS]

00:18:39   built-in but basically in the wall is [TS]

00:18:41   like sunk in and it's about the size of [TS]

00:18:43   maybe a 40 or 50 inch TV these days and [TS]

00:18:46   I'm sure left to his own devices he [TS]

00:18:48   would have like a 9,000 inch monstrosity [TS]

00:18:50   but because it's in a built in that's in [TS]

00:18:53   his wall there's not really a lot he can [TS]

00:18:55   do like to make it bigger he would have [TS]

00:18:57   to cut into his wall also John you are [TS]

00:19:00   officially uninvited from ever coming to [TS]

00:19:01   my house because I have a TV that is not [TS]

00:19:03   calibrated is it mounted above the [TS]

00:19:04   fireplace probably I don't know two or [TS]

00:19:07   three feet off the ceiling which is like [TS]

00:19:09   a seven or eight-foot ceiling I guess [TS]

00:19:11   eight-foot ceiling I have to point one [TS]

00:19:14   sound I have a turntable like this is [TS]

00:19:17   pretty much your hell is my family room [TS]

00:19:20   and I like it quite a lot but you're [TS]

00:19:22   never coming over because I don't want [TS]

00:19:23   to I don't want to never hear the end of [TS]

00:19:24   this we have no option so so our family [TS]

00:19:29   room I wasn't trying to make this an [TS]

00:19:30   actual conversation but hey here we are [TS]

00:19:32   our family room and Marco can vouch for [TS]

00:19:34   this it's very very wide and very [TS]

00:19:36   shallow if that makes sense and so [TS]

00:19:39   because of that there's no real [TS]

00:19:42   convenient way to have a TV in the room [TS]

00:19:45   unless you put it in the corner and like [TS]

00:19:46   twist the furniture in the room till be [TS]

00:19:49   in the corner but it's a very shallow [TS]

00:19:50   room so the the best place for it in [TS]

00:19:54   terms of room and furniture flow is [TS]

00:19:56   above the fireplace and that's where it [TS]

00:19:59   is but but I understand and I rec [TS]

00:20:01   knives that for the optimum TV viewing [TS]

00:20:04   experience that is probably not the [TS]

00:20:06   right place for it we were sponsored [TS]

00:20:10   this week by fracture go to fracture me [TS]

00:20:12   calm slash podcast fracture is a photo [TS]

00:20:16   decor company that prints photos in [TS]

00:20:18   vivid color directly on glass they are [TS]

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00:20:25   directly on these beautiful sheets of [TS]

00:20:27   glass they had a laser-cut rigid backing [TS]

00:20:29   so they're ready to display or hang [TS]

00:20:30   right out of the box they even include a [TS]

00:20:32   wall anchor all you have to do is upload [TS]

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00:20:37   whatever size you want it is that simple [TS]

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00:20:41   makes the color and contrast really pop [TS]

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00:20:54   unique gift they make fantastic gifts [TS]

00:20:55   for friends and family or you can just [TS]

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00:21:11   have fractures all over our house I'm [TS]

00:21:13   looking at let's see there's five of [TS]

00:21:15   them in this room alone and at least [TS]

00:21:16   that I can say oh wait never mind six [TS]

00:21:17   seven more over there on the other wall [TS]

00:21:19   they look great we get tons of [TS]

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00:21:34   podcast sent you just say ATP in the one [TS]

00:21:37   question survey there and it helps them [TS]

00:21:39   know that you came from here help [TS]

00:21:41   support this show once again fracture [TS]

00:21:43   me.com slash podcast and mention ATP for [TS]

00:21:47   10% off your first order thank you very [TS]

00:21:49   much to fracture for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:21:51   [Music] [TS]

00:21:54   speaking of calibration which we were [TS]

00:21:56   talking about about 45 minutes ago [TS]

00:21:57   thx has a has a tune up app thx tune up [TS]

00:22:02   that is I guess pretty well regarded [TS]

00:22:04   it's for Android and iOS unfortunately [TS]

00:22:07   not for the Apple TV however people are [TS]

00:22:10   asking for calibration apps and I [TS]

00:22:12   suggested this to mark oh I assume like [TS]

00:22:14   oh there must be a bunch of government [TS]

00:22:15   it turns out no there Apple TV is the [TS]

00:22:19   the Apple TV app store is not looking [TS]

00:22:20   too good if there's a good one probable [TS]

00:22:21   to be I couldn't find it put it that way [TS]

00:22:23   i-i think i downloaded or purchased [TS]

00:22:25   every Apple TV app that has anything to [TS]

00:22:29   do with calibration and they are all [TS]

00:22:30   pretty terrible [TS]

00:22:32   thx tune-up I used years ago and still [TS]

00:22:35   out there it's not an Apple TV app which [TS]

00:22:39   follows me in a couple of ways because [TS]

00:22:41   like well you know what's the point like [TS]

00:22:43   why why do I have to also have a you [TS]

00:22:47   know phone or an iPad and then somehow a [TS]

00:22:50   way to project that to the TV they're a [TS]

00:22:51   chromecast or an Apple TV but if you [TS]

00:22:53   have the one combination I know it works [TS]

00:22:56   you have an iOS device like an iPad or [TS]

00:22:58   an iPhone and you also have an Apple TV [TS]

00:23:00   you run the thx tune-up app on your iOS [TS]

00:23:02   device in your hand and then you airplay [TS]

00:23:05   it to the TV and the reason I don't like [TS]

00:23:06   that is because as far as I know airplay [TS]

00:23:09   is lossy compressed over-the-air that is [TS]

00:23:12   that correct to mark on you might now [TS]

00:23:13   video is is lossy compressed audio is [TS]

00:23:15   lossless alright so but week everybody [TS]

00:23:18   here in this case and so like does you [TS]

00:23:21   really want to run a calibration app [TS]

00:23:23   compressed occur I mean some parts of it [TS]

00:23:24   work like the you know the geometry [TS]

00:23:26   stuff and the you know making sure you [TS]

00:23:28   can see all the pixels and stuff like [TS]

00:23:29   that but but anyway the app itself is [TS]

00:23:32   actually decent it does the important [TS]

00:23:34   things of saying here's a screen here's [TS]

00:23:36   what it's supposed to look like in words [TS]

00:23:39   adjusted until you can see all six boxes [TS]

00:23:42   or until you can barely make out those [TS]

00:23:44   numbered you know seven over here or but [TS]

00:23:47   like they they tell you what you're [TS]

00:23:49   looking for and then you can then it's [TS]

00:23:50   up to you to mess with your television [TS]

00:23:52   and do it it's a great way to test your [TS]

00:23:53   calibration things if you download those [TS]

00:23:55   settings from that website [TS]

00:23:57   who knows maybe it's dead on for your TV [TS]

00:23:59   run through the calibration screens and [TS]

00:24:01   it would be like you should see six [TS]

00:24:02   boxes you'd be like yep I see six boxes [TS]

00:24:03   go to the next one [TS]

00:24:04   you should see the number nine family [TS]

00:24:05   visible and you shouldn't see 10 yep I [TS]

00:24:07   see it go to that you'll it'll take you [TS]

00:24:08   30 seconds right but if you go through [TS]

00:24:10   it and it's off then you get into the [TS]

00:24:12   hole it's time to actually calibrate [TS]

00:24:14   your TV or make it a them in a nighttime [TS]

00:24:16   setting or whatever so I was going to [TS]

00:24:19   bring up in well actually you and say [TS]

00:24:21   well actually why don't you use or I [TS]

00:24:22   guess let me do this right well actually [TS]

00:24:24   you should use the lightning digital AV [TS]

00:24:27   Adapter but doesn't that use airplay [TS]

00:24:28   behind [TS]

00:24:29   means anyone yes doesn't doesn't have [TS]

00:24:30   like little h.264 decoder encoder thing [TS]

00:24:33   there and a tiny iOS device or something [TS]

00:24:35   yeah panic with the whole blog post [TS]

00:24:36   about him yeah yeah so obviously is not [TS]

00:24:39   the ideal thing and and uh this is the [TS]

00:24:42   the next bit of follow up here from John [TS]

00:24:43   Duffin and a lot of people are giving us [TS]

00:24:45   tips about this I figured it was maybe [TS]

00:24:47   someone Twitter was saying I was saying [TS]

00:24:49   Lucasfilm DVDs and blu-rays have [TS]

00:24:51   calibration things on them like if you [TS]

00:24:52   go to their menus like deep in the [TS]

00:24:54   extras section someone was telling me [TS]

00:24:57   that most Pixar blu-rays and DVDs have [TS]

00:24:59   calibration apps again somewhere buried [TS]

00:25:01   in there extras menu on them john Duffin [TS]

00:25:04   road and tell us that if you have a Sony [TS]

00:25:06   Pictures blu-ray and you type Sony on [TS]

00:25:09   the title screen like seven six nine [TS]

00:25:11   seven six six nine like telephone [TS]

00:25:13   dialing Sony I suppose it will open the [TS]

00:25:16   calibration screen which seems pretty [TS]

00:25:17   sneaky cuz who the heck knows how to do [TS]

00:25:19   that I should actually put it in the [TS]

00:25:20   menu these are all ways to get a better [TS]

00:25:24   source for calibration especially from [TS]

00:25:27   like blu-ray player please that's that's [TS]

00:25:29   directly connected to your television [TS]

00:25:30   and is not lossy compressed h.264 [TS]

00:25:33   over-the-air through air play the [TS]

00:25:35   quality of these calibration apps varies [TS]

00:25:38   but at the very least you can do [TS]

00:25:39   geometry and you know grayscale levels [TS]

00:25:42   and brightness and stuff like that and [TS]

00:25:44   do a reasonable job of it so there's [TS]

00:25:46   really pretty no excuse for people not [TS]

00:25:48   to have access to calibrations thing of [TS]

00:25:51   some kind it's not you have to buy some [TS]

00:25:53   expensive piece of hardware or software [TS]

00:25:55   or you know do anything fancier it just [TS]

00:25:59   surely everyone who's listening to this [TS]

00:26:02   who has a fancy television that's worth [TS]

00:26:03   calibrating has a DVD or a blu-ray or [TS]

00:26:07   access to the iOS App Store to get I [TS]

00:26:09   think thx turn up is free but if not you [TS]

00:26:12   know it's the price of a cup of coffee [TS]

00:26:13   just download it and give it a go [TS]

00:26:15   counter argument the art things ratings [TS]

00:26:17   are pretty good and nothing can make me [TS]

00:26:21   want to boot up the ps4 and play a [TS]

00:26:23   blu-ray disc somehow in that monstrosity [TS]

00:26:25   and then get to the monstrosity that is [TS]

00:26:27   blu-ray discs themselves and then [TS]

00:26:29   navigate that and do all this when the [TS]

00:26:32   are things things were good enough [TS]

00:26:34   you've got an Apple TV you see HX steps [TS]

00:26:35   it's fun [TS]

00:26:36   calibrating your TV can be fun or you [TS]

00:26:39   can just not here that is an officially [TS]

00:26:41   ATP blast options [TS]

00:26:42   not gonna make sure that your didn't do [TS]

00:26:44   we go through this fear with the size [TS]

00:26:45   that's all I care about in your TV is [TS]

00:26:47   that it's not an over scan mode no wait [TS]

00:26:51   wait whoa really I don't want it to be [TS]

00:26:53   I've tried everything I knew how to do [TS]

00:26:55   to fix it I'm not I'm not proud of this [TS]

00:26:57   I sound proud I'm gonna get about the [TS]

00:27:01   car buying get rid of that TV but but [TS]

00:27:04   the mount that we have in our wall I [TS]

00:27:06   think only support you know pristine [TS]

00:27:10   1080 versions of a show and then it's [TS]

00:27:11   stretched to non-native res and you're [TS]

00:27:13   stripping all the edges when you wash [TS]

00:27:15   absolutely accurate absolutely I'm not [TS]

00:27:18   proud of this I know I sound all smug [TS]

00:27:19   and proud I'm not it's just I have spent [TS]

00:27:21   what I consider to be an inordinate [TS]

00:27:24   amount of time trying to fix this which [TS]

00:27:25   is to say like five or ten minutes and [TS]

00:27:27   yeah I couldn't figure it out and I was [TS]

00:27:29   I just don't care enough I just don't I [TS]

00:27:31   want it to be fixed it's not that I [TS]

00:27:32   don't want it to be fixed I just don't [TS]

00:27:34   care enough so I would invite you Joe [TS]

00:27:36   down John to fix it but a you would [TS]

00:27:39   never travel that far unless under [TS]

00:27:40   duress and be you would hate everything [TS]

00:27:43   you saw and potentially firebomb my [TS]

00:27:45   house I've only Marco had purchased this [TS]

00:27:47   television two years earlier because we [TS]

00:27:49   ran it by now he'll be buying another [TS]

00:27:50   television you know it's sitting behind [TS]

00:27:59   my chair in my living room you want it [TS]

00:28:00   probably weighs a ton well yeah excuse [TS]

00:28:04   if you want to come pick it up you can [TS]

00:28:05   have it well we'll talk about that later [TS]

00:28:07   all right tell me about your small [TS]

00:28:10   speaker amp Marco [TS]

00:28:12   oh yeah million people ask I I mentioned [TS]

00:28:14   very quickly in passing last episode [TS]

00:28:16   that my preferred setup was just this [TS]

00:28:18   tiny little Class D amplifier cards [TS]

00:28:21   driving just two speakers without a [TS]

00:28:23   subwoofer without surround anything like [TS]

00:28:25   that and a million people have asked me [TS]

00:28:27   since then which amp it is and the [TS]

00:28:29   reason I didn't say is because it is the [TS]

00:28:31   NuForce dia or dia I don't know dia and [TS]

00:28:35   it's been it was discontinued like three [TS]

00:28:36   years ago and and new for the entire [TS]

00:28:39   company of new force was bought by this [TS]

00:28:40   other company that apparently all the [TS]

00:28:43   fans of new force hate and they say [TS]

00:28:45   they've ruined all their products since [TS]

00:28:46   then so I didn't feel comfortable [TS]

00:28:47   recommending it because it's not only [TS]

00:28:50   can you not get in anymore but the [TS]

00:28:51   things that you can get now have pretty [TS]

00:28:52   crappy reviews from people who used to [TS]

00:28:54   like the old stuff [TS]

00:28:56   so there is now this there's this giant [TS]

00:28:58   class of small like Class D amplifiers [TS]

00:29:02   and like getting into the details of [TS]

00:29:04   like what like Class A and Class A B and [TS]

00:29:06   all these different amplifier topologies [TS]

00:29:08   are Class D basically allows you to make [TS]

00:29:12   an amp very very small and low heat and [TS]

00:29:14   low power and audio files don't like it [TS]

00:29:17   as much as the other kinds but for the [TS]

00:29:18   purposes of like you know speakers on TV [TS]

00:29:20   it's totally fine and and so Class D am [TS]

00:29:24   sorry there's lots of them if you search [TS]

00:29:25   Amazon for a class D amp there there's a [TS]

00:29:28   ton that are with roughly between one [TS]

00:29:31   and four hundred dollars that are [TS]

00:29:33   approximately 25 to 50 watts per channel [TS]

00:29:37   and many of them support remote controls [TS]

00:29:39   and so for my little new force one has a [TS]

00:29:42   little generic remote and I was very [TS]

00:29:43   very easily able to have the Apple TV [TS]

00:29:45   learn that up and down volume controlled [TS]

00:29:48   and that's it so that's what I'm using [TS]

00:29:50   now if I had to buy new today I would [TS]

00:29:53   probably want a little bit more power [TS]

00:29:55   for driving like floor standards but if [TS]

00:29:57   you're just driving bookshelves then [TS]

00:29:59   those little like 20 watt ones are fine [TS]

00:30:00   on Amazon and again there's a lot so [TS]

00:30:03   just look for Class D am from oats and [TS]

00:30:05   they're there there's a lot out there [TS]

00:30:06   all right now I didn't get a chance to [TS]

00:30:09   read this but Jonathan Dietz jr. writes [TS]

00:30:11   in about Type C personality so can one [TS]

00:30:14   of you take me through this if you don't [TS]

00:30:15   mind is that like a railer personality [TS]

00:30:16   that you can insert either direction [TS]

00:30:18   it's a post title so he's been emailing [TS]

00:30:22   back and forth with me about a USB [TS]

00:30:25   type-c stuff since the show that we [TS]

00:30:27   talked about it he had remember that big [TS]

00:30:28   long email that he read he wrote an even [TS]

00:30:30   longer email after i'm like you should [TS]

00:30:31   make this blog post because there's no [TS]

00:30:33   way we can even summarize a feedback [TS]

00:30:37   email this complicated and you should [TS]

00:30:38   just really make it a blog post like [TS]

00:30:39   don't just email your you know insights [TS]

00:30:42   and ideas to a single or a couple of [TS]

00:30:46   people put it up on the web for [TS]

00:30:48   everybody to see because then we can [TS]

00:30:49   just link to it in the show notes which [TS]

00:30:50   we will do and then anyone who's [TS]

00:30:52   interested can read it so if you want to [TS]

00:30:53   hear even more about the nitty gritty [TS]

00:30:56   details of USB type-c and all the [TS]

00:31:00   different alternate modes and what do [TS]

00:31:02   would take to get hubs of different [TS]

00:31:03   kinds of stuff take a look at this very [TS]

00:31:06   long detailed post I think the most [TS]

00:31:08   salient point in a couple [TS]

00:31:09   people have brought this up as well is [TS]

00:31:10   the idea that it's still early enough in [TS]

00:31:13   us the USB 3.1 spec in the type C spec [TS]

00:31:17   and all the other stuff that there [TS]

00:31:19   aren't a lot of chipsets that support [TS]

00:31:22   all the different protocols and are [TS]

00:31:24   certified by all the standards bodies [TS]

00:31:25   and so on and so forth and that most [TS]

00:31:27   companies that make hubs just by like [TS]

00:31:30   tips from somebody else or like a [TS]

00:31:32   reference design from somebody else that [TS]

00:31:34   has already done all the work to make [TS]

00:31:36   sure you know the thing actually works [TS]

00:31:38   and is certified according to all the [TS]

00:31:40   standards bodies or whatever and they [TS]

00:31:42   just package it in a box and and slap on [TS]

00:31:44   a crappy power supply it's gonna break [TS]

00:31:45   in six months or ever but that's what [TS]

00:31:47   they do they don't they don't make the [TS]

00:31:49   chips they want the chips to already be [TS]

00:31:50   made and a bunch of companies are going [TS]

00:31:54   to be making these types of chips for a [TS]

00:31:56   us the new USB specs and they're just [TS]

00:31:58   coming online now so it could be that [TS]

00:32:00   you wait another year [TS]

00:32:01   there could be many more options for you [TS]

00:32:04   know USB type-c hubs to do fan-out on [TS]

00:32:07   them and more complicated Thunderbolt [TS]

00:32:08   hubs and stuff like that so we'll see [TS]

00:32:11   you could also end up being like [TS]

00:32:13   firewire where yeah and that'd be even [TS]

00:32:14   many many years into it the only a few [TS]

00:32:16   companies make a set of chips and [TS]

00:32:17   everything still cost a million dollars [TS]

00:32:19   it's a little steep but anyway I [TS]

00:32:21   recommend the post he took the time to [TS]

00:32:24   write a blog post and so now the entire [TS]

00:32:28   world can share in his knowledge [TS]

00:32:30   excellent Brian Ross Lee writes in to [TS]

00:32:32   say are the rumored OLED iPhones going [TS]

00:32:35   to have issues with image retention if [TS]

00:32:36   so what measures should we take to [TS]

00:32:38   prevent it the question is are they [TS]

00:32:41   going to have more issues with image [TS]

00:32:43   retention than LCDs do you do you know [TS]

00:32:46   that your current iOS device if it has [TS]

00:32:48   image retention because I can tell you [TS]

00:32:50   that many iOS devices over many many [TS]

00:32:52   years have had image retention issues in [TS]

00:32:54   fact maybe yours does now and me telling [TS]

00:32:56   you this is gonna make you look at it [TS]

00:32:57   and realize I'll god I have an image [TS]

00:32:58   retention on my iPad you probably do [TS]

00:33:00   people don't like to think about it but [TS]

00:33:03   it is there if you look for it it can [TS]

00:33:06   get really bad on some devices after [TS]

00:33:08   some time and other devices hardly show [TS]

00:33:10   it at all I suppose if you wanted like [TS]

00:33:13   ignorance is bliss so you probably [TS]

00:33:14   shouldn't do this kind of like in the [TS]

00:33:15   old days when you'd look for dead pixels [TS]

00:33:16   but Marco has a handy webpage that will [TS]

00:33:20   put a checkerboard pattern on your [TS]

00:33:22   screen [TS]

00:33:22   and you'll leave it there for a while [TS]

00:33:25   and then you go anywhere else [TS]

00:33:27   and if you can still see the [TS]

00:33:28   checkerboard guess what you've got image [TS]

00:33:31   retention no you don't have to be [TS]

00:33:32   anywhere else it'll switch over to gray [TS]

00:33:34   for you that's right you click on us [TS]

00:33:35   which is the gray after you stare at it [TS]

00:33:37   for a little but but the whole point is [TS]

00:33:38   like to convince yourself that Marco is [TS]

00:33:40   not just trolling you you just launched [TS]

00:33:41   another app or go to springboard or [TS]

00:33:42   whatever and you'll still see it there [TS]

00:33:45   I've never owned you know if you only [TS]

00:33:48   all that I have is my Apple watch right [TS]

00:33:49   like that's the only thing I have that's [TS]

00:33:51   an OLED I have heard that oh I have [TS]

00:33:53   image retention issues and I've heard it [TS]

00:33:55   talked about because it's like the [TS]

00:33:57   successor to plasma like you know [TS]

00:33:59   because LCD was never really the [TS]

00:34:00   successor to plasma because the image [TS]

00:34:01   quality was worse and now here's OLED [TS]

00:34:03   with image quality that was actually [TS]

00:34:04   better and the old slam against plasma [TS]

00:34:06   in addition to all the heat and expense [TS]

00:34:07   and power use and everything was that it [TS]

00:34:11   had image retention and of course LCD [TS]

00:34:13   hasn't retention as well but the all you [TS]

00:34:15   have a plasma has bad image or Pena so [TS]

00:34:17   all that I've heard talked about as if [TS]

00:34:19   it's almost as bad as plasma and so I [TS]

00:34:22   thinking that it's worse than LCD in [TS]

00:34:24   terms of search engine but having a [TS]

00:34:25   never owned one I have no idea guess [TS]

00:34:27   marker will tell us if the men user [TS]

00:34:28   burned into his OLED TV so I would [TS]

00:34:32   suspect that yes [TS]

00:34:33   oh let iPhones are going to have image [TS]

00:34:36   retention issues the same exact way is [TS]

00:34:37   the LCD iPhones at the very least you [TS]

00:34:39   know I don't see if oh I've had less [TS]

00:34:41   image retention issues and then LCD it [TS]

00:34:44   seems like something that you know but [TS]

00:34:46   you'd be hearing about instead but I [TS]

00:34:47   hear the opposite that oh oh let watch [TS]

00:34:49   out image retention so no matter how [TS]

00:34:51   well the whoever manufactures these [TS]

00:34:53   screens does surely it will have the [TS]

00:34:56   same image retention on average as all [TS]

00:34:58   the other iPhones now I I don't know [TS]

00:35:00   from year to year device to device [TS]

00:35:03   manufacturer to manufacturer how the [TS]

00:35:05   image retention has varied on iOS [TS]

00:35:07   devices I try not to look for it I see [TS]

00:35:10   it occasionally still mostly on my iPad [TS]

00:35:12   I don't know that's because it's I you [TS]

00:35:14   know I use my iPad more because the [TS]

00:35:16   screen is bigger and it's easier to pick [TS]

00:35:17   up on these things but I think most [TS]

00:35:20   people don't know that LCDs have managed [TS]

00:35:23   retention on their iOS devices and so [TS]

00:35:25   therefore I'll probably won't notice [TS]

00:35:26   that are on there oh let's oh I know [TS]

00:35:28   what measure should we take to prevent [TS]

00:35:30   it don't use your device you won't [TS]

00:35:32   notice any retention [TS]

00:35:33   Wow I mean like what can you do like [TS]

00:35:36   this [TS]

00:35:36   you know what can you do to prevent like [TS]

00:35:38   if you put an image on your screen and [TS]

00:35:39   you leave it there for a long time but [TS]

00:35:41   like that's often what we do with our [TS]

00:35:43   phones is leave an image there for a [TS]

00:35:45   long time whether you're reading a big [TS]

00:35:47   page in an e-book and it takes you a [TS]

00:35:49   certain amount of time to read a page or [TS]

00:35:50   you're looking at a video and like my [TS]

00:35:53   children you refuse to put the video in [TS]

00:35:55   full screen the surrounding frame of the [TS]

00:35:57   YouTube that's not video is static the [TS]

00:35:59   whole time you're watching a 20 minute [TS]

00:36:00   video no like with my television I can [TS]

00:36:04   tell you as a long time plasma TV owner [TS]

00:36:07   I don't play video games with a static [TS]

00:36:09   HUD if I can help it on my big [TS]

00:36:11   television I don't leave the television [TS]

00:36:13   pause like I don't hit the pause button [TS]

00:36:15   on a TiVo or whatever and then leave the [TS]

00:36:16   room for five minutes [TS]

00:36:17   if I'm going to leave like Apple TV has [TS]

00:36:19   a screen saver that will turn on which [TS]

00:36:21   is actually a useful thing for me [TS]

00:36:22   because it's actually saving my screen [TS]

00:36:24   but if I'm gonna leave the room for more [TS]

00:36:27   than you know two minutes I turn off the [TS]

00:36:30   television yeah I'll have to turn [TS]

00:36:31   everything else off just turned the [TS]

00:36:32   power off on television then turn it [TS]

00:36:33   back on when you come in but that [TS]

00:36:35   doesn't apply to iOS devices because [TS]

00:36:37   it's not like you're leaving it paused [TS]

00:36:39   you're leaving the room and the screen [TS]

00:36:40   will turn off and a minute anyway to [TS]

00:36:42   save your battery so I don't think [TS]

00:36:44   there's anything anybody can do about it [TS]

00:36:45   we just have to cross our fingers and [TS]

00:36:47   help the first batch of these things [TS]

00:36:49   don't end up having weird discoloration [TS]

00:36:51   or image retention issues and hope that [TS]

00:36:52   you get to them but from the good screen [TS]

00:36:54   manufacturer if there is such a thing [TS]

00:36:55   this time around and I'll just deal with [TS]

00:36:58   it okay and finally tell me about [TS]

00:37:02   Apple's silence on net neutrality the [TS]

00:37:05   posts on OS news.com asking where's [TS]

00:37:10   Apple on this hole and the neutrality [TS]

00:37:11   thing we talked about it I think last [TS]

00:37:13   show and unlike lots of other issues [TS]

00:37:15   Apple is not a particularly loud [TS]

00:37:18   cheerleader in favor of net neutrality [TS]

00:37:21   to the point where the you know question [TS]

00:37:24   was also where it does Apple say on this [TS]

00:37:25   and like I don't know I've never heard [TS]

00:37:27   them say anything of substance about net [TS]

00:37:30   neutrality at all again unlike many [TS]

00:37:32   other issues then this post goes on to [TS]

00:37:35   speculate why that might be at Apple as [TS]

00:37:37   it incumbent with the potential you know [TS]

00:37:41   lots of money and lots of digital goods [TS]

00:37:43   that they want to send over the wires [TS]

00:37:44   the like neutrality would favor them [TS]

00:37:46   because they do have the money to pay [TS]

00:37:47   anybody and I can get an edge [TS]

00:37:48   competitors and blow of all sorts of [TS]

00:37:50   sort of conspiracy theories or whatever [TS]

00:37:51   but as the biggest tech company in the [TS]

00:37:55   world I feel like they should be much [TS]

00:37:57   more vocal than they are I shouldn't be [TS]

00:37:59   here thinking where does Apple stand [TS]

00:38:01   neutrality I should already know because [TS]

00:38:02   they should already have blocked out [TS]

00:38:05   their web pages and maybe they did that [TS]

00:38:08   and I'm just missing it I don't know [TS]

00:38:10   Danny [TS]

00:38:11   you guys we might recall anything from [TS]

00:38:14   Apple about a neutral TF er no no yeah I [TS]

00:38:17   don't know that's disappointing well I [TS]

00:38:21   mean I don't fault them for like not [TS]

00:38:22   making their pages black and stuff on [TS]

00:38:24   certain days because like Apple does not [TS]

00:38:26   respond well to social pressure to make [TS]

00:38:29   them change their stuff for the sake of [TS]

00:38:30   some you know someone else's terms like [TS]

00:38:33   that's apples not gonna play a ball with [TS]

00:38:35   that but it's not someone else doing it [TS]

00:38:37   like they they changed the homepage when [TS]

00:38:38   George Harrison died like it shouldn't [TS]

00:38:40   it should be intrinsic not extrinsic [TS]

00:38:42   should be them deciding that net [TS]

00:38:43   neutrality is important you know [TS]

00:38:45   therefore they are going to do this not [TS]

00:38:47   that they feel PP they feel PP to put [TS]

00:38:49   George Harrison them no it's just [TS]

00:38:50   something they decided to do as a [TS]

00:38:51   company and I hope that that still is [TS]

00:38:53   within the company that these important [TS]

00:38:55   causes and important days make the token [TS]

00:38:58   effort express the values of your [TS]

00:39:00   company and that Tim Cook's Apple has [TS]

00:39:02   been doing that iam we talked about this [TS]

00:39:03   more than Steve Jobs as Apple like [TS]

00:39:05   expressing the values of the company [TS]

00:39:08   externally in a in a more bold way that [TS]

00:39:10   seemed to be more about Tim Cook's [TS]

00:39:12   values maybe Tim Cook doesn't value net [TS]

00:39:14   neutrality I don't know if you've never [TS]

00:39:15   heard him talk about it it's hard to say [TS]

00:39:17   there's a quote from him in this article [TS]

00:39:19   that just as a bunch of nothing so [TS]

00:39:20   doesn't tell you anything we are [TS]

00:39:23   sponsored this week by aftershokz bone [TS]

00:39:25   conduction headphones go to ATP [TS]

00:39:27   aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

00:39:30   aftershokz headphones work by bone [TS]

00:39:32   conduction so small transducers rest in [TS]

00:39:35   front of your ears not inside or around [TS]

00:39:37   your ears like most headphones and they [TS]

00:39:39   send mini vibrations through your cheek [TS]

00:39:41   bones directly to your inner ear [TS]

00:39:43   bypassing your ears and eardrums [TS]

00:39:45   completely so unlike every other kind of [TS]

00:39:47   headphone bone conduction leave your [TS]

00:39:49   ears completely open with nothing in [TS]

00:39:51   them so this brings some major benefits [TS]

00:39:53   in practice so first of all a lot of [TS]

00:39:55   people like me can't wear earbuds or [TS]

00:39:58   in-ear monitors because they actually [TS]

00:39:59   hurt they physically hurt our ears over [TS]

00:40:01   time [TS]

00:40:02   aftershokz headphones don't have this [TS]

00:40:03   problem because nothing is in your ear [TS]

00:40:05   there are so awesome for exercise and [TS]

00:40:07   hot weather they stay in place very [TS]

00:40:10   easily with movement unlike earbuds for [TS]

00:40:12   me and because they don't cover your ear [TS]

00:40:14   up I actually find them far less sweaty [TS]

00:40:16   than regular headphones and if I do [TS]

00:40:18   sweat or if it starts raining I don't [TS]

00:40:20   need to care because they are ip55 [TS]

00:40:22   certified for water resistance and the [TS]

00:40:24   biggest difference for me with with [TS]

00:40:25   aftershocks is that and this is the big [TS]

00:40:27   factor that you should determine whether [TS]

00:40:28   they are right for you at all is that [TS]

00:40:30   because nothing is blocking your ears [TS]

00:40:32   you hear all of the sound of the world [TS]

00:40:35   around you so they're not great in very [TS]

00:40:37   loud surroundings but they are awesome [TS]

00:40:38   if you want to listen to a podcast or [TS]

00:40:40   take a phone call while you're doing [TS]

00:40:42   something like walking or running or [TS]

00:40:44   cycling where you really need to hear [TS]

00:40:46   the world around you for your own safety [TS]

00:40:48   or convenience and they also work great [TS]

00:40:50   if you need to listen for something [TS]

00:40:51   outside at home or at work while you [TS]

00:40:53   want to listen to a podcast or maybe [TS]

00:40:55   maybe if while you're taking a phone [TS]

00:40:56   call maybe your kids are asleep upstairs [TS]

00:40:58   and you want to hear if they need [TS]

00:40:59   anything or maybe you're expecting a [TS]

00:41:01   package and you don't want to miss a [TS]

00:41:02   knock on the door bone conduction [TS]

00:41:03   headphones are incredibly useful tools [TS]

00:41:06   for I would say listening to podcasts [TS]

00:41:09   and taking phone calls when you don't [TS]

00:41:10   want to block out the world around you [TS]

00:41:12   so check out the flagship model in the [TS]

00:41:14   aftershocks lineup this is the Trek's [TS]

00:41:16   titanium I've had one of these for a few [TS]

00:41:18   months and I find myself using it more [TS]

00:41:20   than any other portable headphone in the [TS]

00:41:22   summertime and they are so good at [TS]

00:41:24   minimizing sweatiness and letting me [TS]

00:41:26   hear what's going on in the world around [TS]

00:41:27   me battery life is quoted at six hours [TS]

00:41:30   of playback 10 days in standby that [TS]

00:41:31   sounds right to me and with my [TS]

00:41:33   experience I charged over a few days and [TS]

00:41:34   I've never run out of power [TS]

00:41:35   also all aftershokz headphones have a 2 [TS]

00:41:37   year warranty so check it out the [TS]

00:41:40   aftershocks trex titanium retails for [TS]

00:41:42   130 bucks but listeners of this show can [TS]

00:41:44   snag a pair for just 99 95 by visiting a [TS]

00:41:47   tepee aftershocks calm that's a tepee [TS]

00:41:51   aftershocks calm thanks to aftershocks [TS]

00:41:53   for sponsoring our show so we are [TS]

00:41:59   recording Monday the 17th which is [TS]

00:42:02   unusual we usually record on Wednesdays [TS]

00:42:04   and we'll be recording again I think on [TS]

00:42:06   Thursday yes on Thursday the 20th and [TS]

00:42:08   this is because of its some vacation [TS]

00:42:10   stuff and since we have all these [TS]

00:42:13   vacations that are kind of [TS]

00:42:15   inconvenient for the purposes of [TS]

00:42:16   recording the show we thought we would [TS]

00:42:19   do our possible and you all don't really [TS]

00:42:22   call it a tradition but it's sort of [TS]

00:42:24   becoming a tradition ask a teepee and do [TS]

00:42:26   a Q&A with listeners so rather than [TS]

00:42:29   asking us or asking you guys rather to [TS]

00:42:32   inundate us with email we are taking a [TS]

00:42:35   page out of the my Curley playbook and [TS]

00:42:37   instead we would like you to use Twitter [TS]

00:42:39   if at all possible if you please [TS]

00:42:41   and tweet with the hashtag ask a teepee [TS]

00:42:45   a ska teepee and if you tweet into the [TS]

00:42:50   ether with hashtag ask a teepee then it [TS]

00:42:53   will be added to a nice little document [TS]

00:42:55   and we will go through it and hopefully [TS]

00:42:56   read and answer your question sometime [TS]

00:42:59   is it next step so that we're doing this [TS]

00:43:01   is that right so the we have planet for [TS]

00:43:03   next episode however I would like to say [TS]

00:43:05   with all with the greatest apologies to [TS]

00:43:07   the upgrade podcast for totally ripping [TS]

00:43:09   them off I would like to make this a [TS]

00:43:11   regular segment that I think we should [TS]

00:43:13   have asked a TP in every show people ask [TS]

00:43:15   those questions all the time yeah but [TS]

00:43:17   isn't the joy not having to answer them [TS]

00:43:19   okay not to be mean or anything but like [TS]

00:43:25   you're right people do ask those [TS]

00:43:27   questions all the time but you can [TS]

00:43:28   understand how often people ask those [TS]

00:43:29   questions it would be a full-time job [TS]

00:43:31   for multiple people to try to answer all [TS]

00:43:33   the questions that are asked to us it's [TS]

00:43:34   just not possible we don't have to [TS]

00:43:36   answer all of them but right right right [TS]

00:43:37   so this don't think this is gonna [TS]

00:43:39   suddenly make it so that we're gonna [TS]

00:43:40   answer all your questions but hope that [TS]

00:43:42   I mean the plan so like we'll answer [TS]

00:43:43   point zero zero one percent instead of [TS]

00:43:45   point zero zero zero percent right yeah [TS]

00:43:48   like like every week we could answer one [TS]

00:43:50   or two questions like depending on how [TS]

00:43:51   long the answers are like because I feel [TS]

00:43:53   like that would help prevent us from [TS]

00:43:55   getting too much hmm in our own selves [TS]

00:44:00   about our topic selection and would [TS]

00:44:03   prevent us from getting too far into [TS]

00:44:05   just endless cycles of follow up every [TS]

00:44:07   episode like just have a segment that is [TS]

00:44:09   just that is guaranteed to be something [TS]

00:44:12   fresh even in a very slow news period [TS]

00:44:14   like the summer time by the way this [TS]

00:44:16   thing we're gonna out going to answer [TS]

00:44:18   these shows in the next episode we're [TS]

00:44:19   actually gonna answer this show the [TS]

00:44:21   answer these questions on August 4th the [TS]

00:44:24   recording on August 4th come and swim on [TS]

00:44:27   your next episode maybe [TS]

00:44:28   I'm just gonna do the whole point is [TS]

00:44:33   you've got like three weeks to send [TS]

00:44:36   questions so go nuts yeah and I mean the [TS]

00:44:41   truth of matter is whether Marco or John [TS]

00:44:43   wins this Civil War as to whether or not [TS]

00:44:46   this becomes a regular thing no I [TS]

00:44:47   totally for it being a regular segment [TS]

00:44:49   I'm just saying like it don't expect I'm [TS]

00:44:52   saying to the listeners don't have [TS]

00:44:53   unrealistic expectations that your [TS]

00:44:55   questions are gonna get answered because [TS]

00:44:56   we get so many questions that it's just [TS]

00:44:57   not possible to answer them all or even [TS]

00:44:59   even any reasonable portion of it that [TS]

00:45:01   is true but either way we will have a [TS]

00:45:05   Google document a Google sheet I guess I [TS]

00:45:07   should say that will track all of these [TS]

00:45:09   for us so please go to Twitter if at all [TS]

00:45:12   possible and use ahead and use the [TS]

00:45:14   hashtag ask ATP if you don't have access [TS]

00:45:17   to Twitter then now's a good time to [TS]

00:45:19   sign up follow que cela CAS ey li SS and [TS]

00:45:22   also tweet hashtag sk TP but really if [TS]

00:45:24   you can't and won't suffer through [TS]

00:45:26   twitter yes you can email us but now you [TS]

00:45:29   are dodging the official list and it is [TS]

00:45:31   extraordinarily unlikely unless your [TS]

00:45:33   question is perfect in every way that we [TS]

00:45:36   will answer your questions so the [TS]

00:45:38   pressures that's cold man I just I don't [TS]

00:45:40   want to get a bazillion emails please no [TS]

00:45:41   well and the great thing about about [TS]

00:45:43   Twitter is that it forces you to be [TS]

00:45:45   brief you know because we don't like we [TS]

00:45:47   already have a segment of the show where [TS]

00:45:49   we read multi paragraph emails to you we [TS]

00:45:51   we don't need to add more so instead if [TS]

00:45:53   the the an ideal question it should [TS]

00:45:56   probably be about one sentence and [TS]

00:45:58   Twitter is great for that so we look [TS]

00:46:00   forward to your questions with all [TS]

00:46:02   apologies to the upgrade podcast for [TS]

00:46:04   ripping off the segment from them you [TS]

00:46:06   can use more than one tweet though [TS]

00:46:08   because I feel like there's no tweet [TS]

00:46:13   storm but 2040 is you take the hash tag [TS]

00:46:18   already sometimes you just need you know [TS]

00:46:20   last time we did Q&A I thought we had [TS]

00:46:21   some really good questions they were [TS]

00:46:22   like two sentences long that wouldn't [TS]

00:46:24   fit in a tweet and I don't want to [TS]

00:46:25   exclude those John that's the challenge [TS]

00:46:27   that's that's the that's the price you [TS]

00:46:29   pay to getting your stuff mentioned on [TS]

00:46:32   air so that's the challenge [TS]

00:46:33   listeners 140 characters minus seven so [TS]

00:46:37   what is 133 characters you have to put a [TS]

00:46:39   space for the hashtag that's true I [TS]

00:46:41   don't [TS]

00:46:42   make it happen formatting counts and [TS]

00:46:45   make sure you get your casing right [TS]

00:46:47   because let me tell you you don't want [TS]

00:46:48   John siracusa on your case about casing [TS]

00:46:50   especially if you're Casey anyway you [TS]

00:46:52   like a letter U instead of Y oh you [TS]

00:46:53   forget okay let's uh let's talk briefly [TS]

00:46:59   about one password because there seems [TS]

00:47:00   to be a bit of a kerfuffle that's [TS]

00:47:02   happened over the last week or two and I [TS]

00:47:04   don't get it and it kind of makes me [TS]

00:47:05   angry so my understanding having not [TS]

00:47:09   read deeply into this is that one [TS]

00:47:13   passwords windows version the latest [TS]

00:47:16   Windows version no longer supports [TS]

00:47:19   writing to local vaults and I should [TS]

00:47:22   probably take a half step back actually [TS]

00:47:24   so one password is the password manager [TS]

00:47:25   it's the one that I use it's probably [TS]

00:47:27   the one that my two co-hosts use yeah I [TS]

00:47:29   don't want to say that for certainty oh [TS]

00:47:31   yeah John you're using keychain like an [TS]

00:47:32   animal aren't you [TS]

00:47:34   I declined to comment really whichever [TS]

00:47:38   second is oh no Gary the privacy client [TS]

00:47:41   clown is so yeah anyway [TS]

00:47:44   all right well some of us on this show [TS]

00:47:46   who will remain nameless definitely not [TS]

00:47:49   SH Marco or SH Maisie definitely use one [TS]

00:47:52   password and and one of the things that [TS]

00:47:55   one password has started offering which [TS]

00:47:56   I think we talked about in the past is [TS]

00:47:58   family plans and business plans and so [TS]

00:48:01   the idea here is that the way one [TS]

00:48:04   password works is that they call kind of [TS]

00:48:07   a group of passwords and other things as [TS]

00:48:10   well a vault that's you could think of [TS]

00:48:12   that kind of like a database and you can [TS]

00:48:15   pay them money on a recurring basis as a [TS]

00:48:18   employer or as just a family member and [TS]

00:48:21   you can have a one or more of these [TS]

00:48:24   vaults or databases stored on one [TS]

00:48:26   password servers and then you can have [TS]

00:48:28   users that are added to your account and [TS]

00:48:30   then you can share passwords so as an [TS]

00:48:32   example [TS]

00:48:32   Shmi and Sharon might have a one [TS]

00:48:35   passwords per family account where [TS]

00:48:38   hypothetically they slash we would have [TS]

00:48:41   individual vaults for our own individual [TS]

00:48:43   passwords that we don't wish to share [TS]

00:48:44   and one family vault for passwords that [TS]

00:48:46   we do wish to share and in my opinion it [TS]

00:48:49   has worked extremely well I think the [TS]

00:48:51   one password apps and all the platforms [TS]

00:48:53   are very well designed I think they're [TS]

00:48:54   super great [TS]

00:48:55   the agile bits folks seem to be really [TS]

00:48:57   good I think they deserve recurring [TS]

00:49:00   revenue from me and that's why I am a [TS]

00:49:02   paying subscriber to 1password families [TS]

00:49:05   my employer pays for one password four [TS]

00:49:07   teams basically on my recommendation I [TS]

00:49:09   really like it I really think it's great [TS]

00:49:11   and among other things and I don't know [TS]

00:49:15   the specifics about how the mechanism [TS]

00:49:16   here but one of the things they've said [TS]

00:49:18   is that in broad strokes they use a very [TS]

00:49:20   similar encryption scheme as iCloud does [TS]

00:49:23   so even if one password as a company or [TS]

00:49:26   actual bits as a company wanted to get [TS]

00:49:27   into your passwords that are stored on [TS]

00:49:30   their servers there is nothing they can [TS]

00:49:32   do to do that without your guess what [TS]

00:49:34   one password so they've come out the new [TS]

00:49:37   version for Windows they have stated [TS]

00:49:39   publicly that this version will not let [TS]

00:49:42   you write to vaults or databases that [TS]

00:49:45   are stored locally and yeah and you have [TS]

00:49:47   to understand that one password kind of [TS]

00:49:49   came up by being by being able to store [TS]

00:49:51   its password database its vault in [TS]

00:49:53   Dropbox so you could have your passwords [TS]

00:49:54   synced everywhere even without their [TS]

00:49:56   services so a bunch of angry nerds some [TS]

00:49:59   of whom are cheap and some of whom are [TS]

00:50:00   not are getting very angry about the [TS]

00:50:03   fact that you can't have local vaults on [TS]

00:50:06   one password for Windows and thus it's [TS]

00:50:08   clear without a shadow of a doubt that [TS]

00:50:10   tomorrow or soon thereafter you won't be [TS]

00:50:12   able to save two local vaults on any of [TS]

00:50:14   the other platforms now my read on this [TS]

00:50:18   is that yes there will probably come a [TS]

00:50:20   time that you will not be able to use [TS]

00:50:22   local vaults one password because if [TS]

00:50:24   you're agile bits you probably want [TS]

00:50:25   recurring revenue to continue to make [TS]

00:50:27   really world-class apps and thus you're [TS]

00:50:29   probably going to want to compel your [TS]

00:50:31   users to pay you on a regular basis and [TS]

00:50:33   you know what I'm cool with that because [TS]

00:50:35   they do really great work they take it [TS]

00:50:38   very seriously and they deserve a little [TS]

00:50:41   bit of my money every year as far as I'm [TS]

00:50:42   concerned but oh man the Nerds are very [TS]

00:50:47   upset so let me start with Marco as a [TS]

00:50:51   hypothetical one password user Gary the [TS]

00:50:53   privacy clown I would never disclose [TS]

00:50:54   whether or not Marco is publicly Marco [TS]

00:50:57   what do you think you know a similar [TS]

00:50:59   issue came up when TextExpander went [TS]

00:51:01   subscription I believe about a year ago [TS]

00:51:03   yeah yeah yeah with an it was met with [TS]

00:51:05   similar anger and we talked about on the [TS]

00:51:07   show too [TS]

00:51:08   but but I think it's increasingly clear [TS]

00:51:10   that there are very few models for [TS]

00:51:14   software to sustain itself economically [TS]

00:51:15   because the reality is we talked with [TS]

00:51:18   before so I'll be brief software [TS]

00:51:20   requires ongoing maintenance it like [TS]

00:51:24   people have this idea that I'm just [TS]

00:51:25   gonna buy this app and I'll pay you up [TS]

00:51:27   front and I don't want to pay [TS]

00:51:29   subscription I want I want to just pay [TS]

00:51:30   you once then I own it and that's that's [TS]

00:51:32   a wonderful idea and for a long time in [TS]

00:51:34   computing that was somewhat reasonable [TS]

00:51:36   but today those same people who only [TS]

00:51:39   want to pay once upfront and then quote [TS]

00:51:41   own it also expect the manufacturer of [TS]

00:51:44   said software to constantly issue [TS]

00:51:46   updates whenever the environment changes [TS]

00:51:49   so a new OS version comes out they [TS]

00:51:52   expect a free upgrade a new you know new [TS]

00:51:55   features come out you know they expect [TS]

00:51:57   that on a regular basis any kind of [TS]

00:51:59   service based component that has to [TS]

00:52:01   change with the times they expect all [TS]

00:52:02   that to be built in ongoing bug fixes of [TS]

00:52:04   course like people expect ongoing work [TS]

00:52:08   for an upfront one-time price [TS]

00:52:10   indefinitely and that's just not [TS]

00:52:13   sustainable it's simple as that like no [TS]

00:52:15   matter what people say they might say I [TS]

00:52:18   just want to buy it in at once a lot of [TS]

00:52:20   people do say that but what they want [TS]

00:52:22   what they demand is ongoing maintenance [TS]

00:52:25   of that product so the only way to make [TS]

00:52:29   this work really is either to just have [TS]

00:52:32   so many paid installs and upgrades that [TS]

00:52:35   you couldn't just last on that for a [TS]

00:52:37   while and just accept that you're gonna [TS]

00:52:39   make you know 40 bucks from some [TS]

00:52:41   customers up front and then they won't [TS]

00:52:42   bother you again and some customers will [TS]

00:52:44   be using your product for eight years [TS]

00:52:46   and never give you another dime and [TS]

00:52:47   expect constant free updates and you'll [TS]

00:52:48   just have to kind of average it out and [TS]

00:52:49   hope the average works out and that [TS]

00:52:52   works more often than not in the growth [TS]

00:52:55   phase of a product so in the beginning [TS]

00:52:56   when like for for a new app or a or just [TS]

00:53:00   a very successful app that can work for [TS]

00:53:03   a long time like when I had Instapaper [TS]

00:53:05   that works for a long time because it [TS]

00:53:06   was just growing like crazy as the iOS [TS]

00:53:09   platform was growing like crazy so the [TS]

00:53:11   pay once and get free updates forever [TS]

00:53:13   model worked for a long time and [TS]

00:53:14   1password probably has a similar curve [TS]

00:53:17   here where you know for a while one [TS]

00:53:19   password has been growing I think [TS]

00:53:21   because I just keep seeing it everywhere [TS]

00:53:22   assume it's been doing really well for a [TS]

00:53:24   few years but these markets are [TS]

00:53:27   saturating Mac sales are flat iOS sales [TS]

00:53:32   are leveling off it's pretty [TS]

00:53:33   significantly over the last few years [TS]

00:53:35   you know these markets are saturating [TS]

00:53:38   and so everyone who was depending on [TS]

00:53:41   that constant growth of the platform to [TS]

00:53:43   just drive new licenses for a pay once [TS]

00:53:46   business model I think a lot of those [TS]

00:53:48   companies are gonna now face this [TS]

00:53:49   problem of you hey you know what we're [TS]

00:53:51   seeing this curve flatten out now our [TS]

00:53:53   income might be dropping or leveling off [TS]

00:53:56   and we are still having to support this [TS]

00:53:58   software with a staff and with costs and [TS]

00:54:01   with ongoing maintenance there has to be [TS]

00:54:04   some way to fund that and if you're not [TS]

00:54:07   being able to fund it through the new [TS]

00:54:09   users coming in that you didn't have [TS]

00:54:10   before giving you this you know these 30 [TS]

00:54:12   40 bucks at a time for the for the [TS]

00:54:13   one-time license then subscriptions [TS]

00:54:16   really are the best way to do it now [TS]

00:54:19   there is an alternative you can do paid [TS]

00:54:21   upgrades which one password has done for [TS]

00:54:24   awhile and most these companies that [TS]

00:54:26   like on the met on iOS it's less common [TS]

00:54:28   but on the Mac that's how things have [TS]

00:54:29   worked for a while but paid upgrades [TS]

00:54:32   have their own problems too for instance [TS]

00:54:35   you have this weird like feature [TS]

00:54:36   batching incentive where you as the [TS]

00:54:39   software developer are incentivized not [TS]

00:54:41   to really improve the existing version [TS]

00:54:43   of the app in meaningful ways if you can [TS]

00:54:45   save those up for the next paid upgrade [TS]

00:54:48   then you have to like batch up your your [TS]

00:54:50   releases and possibly not put out [TS]

00:54:52   anything for like two years then all of [TS]

00:54:54   a sudden have this boom big drop where [TS]

00:54:55   you drop a whole bunch of features then [TS]

00:54:57   you have other problems like feature [TS]

00:54:59   bloat then he's like what you know look [TS]

00:55:01   what happened with Microsoft and Adobe [TS]

00:55:02   after for the last 20 years I'd say [TS]

00:55:04   lots of companies have gone through this [TS]

00:55:06   and what you end up coming oh and also [TS]

00:55:08   like users who hate subscriptions who [TS]

00:55:11   say they never want to pay that users [TS]

00:55:13   have similar problems with upgrade [TS]

00:55:14   pricing because there's problems with [TS]

00:55:16   that too like neither of these things is [TS]

00:55:18   perfect for what users expect the [TS]

00:55:21   upgrade pricing has the problem of what [TS]

00:55:24   if you buy it and then the next version [TS]

00:55:25   comes out six months later should you [TS]

00:55:28   get more of a discount then like someone [TS]

00:55:31   who bought it five years ago because you [TS]

00:55:32   just bought it you might be really mad [TS]

00:55:34   if [TS]

00:55:35   if the upper a comes out soon after you [TS]

00:55:36   bought it you might expect that your [TS]

00:55:39   ancient version running on like OS 10 [TS]

00:55:41   Tiger should still work today on the [TS]

00:55:43   newest version of OS 10 but they might [TS]

00:55:46   say you might you sorry you have to pay [TS]

00:55:47   an upgrade for the new one like sorry [TS]

00:55:50   there's problems with that too [TS]

00:55:53   what it rolls what really boils down to [TS]

00:55:55   is when you make people pay they'll [TS]

00:55:58   grumble about it no matter how you make [TS]

00:56:00   people pay they're going to grumble [TS]

00:56:01   about it and the one thing they'll [TS]

00:56:03   grumble about the most and get really [TS]

00:56:04   mad about is when you change the way you [TS]

00:56:06   make them pay but once you can get past [TS]

00:56:10   that that problem of hey people are all [TS]

00:56:14   mad right now during this transition [TS]

00:56:15   once you get past that and you're on the [TS]

00:56:18   other side of the transition if you are [TS]

00:56:20   moving to subscriptions yeah people will [TS]

00:56:22   be mad and some people will never buy it [TS]

00:56:25   again [TS]

00:56:26   they'll be so mad they'll hold that [TS]

00:56:27   grudge forever I mean look adobe has [TS]

00:56:29   this problem right with with Creative [TS]

00:56:31   Cloud stuff but adobe doing great right [TS]

00:56:34   now because they made this transition [TS]

00:56:35   they're doing fantastically they are [TS]

00:56:38   better off on the other side of it even [TS]

00:56:40   though some people are still mad and [TS]

00:56:42   will be mad forever about solutions some [TS]

00:56:44   people will never use it as a result but [TS]

00:56:47   the people who are left they're making [TS]

00:56:51   Adobe more money and they're and adobe [TS]

00:56:52   is in a healthier place now [TS]

00:56:54   same thing with Microsoft I think with [TS]

00:56:56   office and that kind of stuff and so [TS]

00:56:59   honestly I haven't been paying attention [TS]

00:57:01   to this entire kerfuffle or to whatever [TS]

00:57:04   happened with TextExpander I don't know [TS]

00:57:06   if smile for release numbers or give any [TS]

00:57:09   indication on whether they're doing [TS]

00:57:10   better now with the new subscription [TS]

00:57:12   model as they were before but if one [TS]

00:57:16   password or or smile you know if these [TS]

00:57:18   companies can go can get to the other [TS]

00:57:20   side of this transition and if even if [TS]

00:57:23   they lose customers along the way they [TS]

00:57:26   will probably be in a better place [TS]

00:57:28   financially and will be more stable than [TS]

00:57:31   they were before with the old you know [TS]

00:57:33   pay maybe every few years for a paid [TS]

00:57:35   upgrade model and so even if this loses [TS]

00:57:39   them customers it still might be the [TS]

00:57:41   best approach to take now that being [TS]

00:57:42   said there are complicating factors with [TS]

00:57:44   this particular arrangement one password [TS]

00:57:46   because of the nature of it is dealing [TS]

00:57:47   with this extremely [TS]

00:57:49   sensitive data that a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:57:51   customers have either requirements or [TS]

00:57:54   requests that the vault that is being [TS]

00:57:58   that the database of your passwords not [TS]

00:58:01   leave their network and they've had [TS]

00:58:03   forever this local vaults feature where [TS]

00:58:05   you can you can literally not use a sync [TS]

00:58:08   service at all you can have basically [TS]

00:58:10   like your Mac sync its local vault over [TS]

00:58:14   the local Wi-Fi to your iOS devices or [TS]

00:58:17   you can have or you just not use sync at [TS]

00:58:19   all and and just you know not use it on [TS]

00:58:21   iOS or whatever and a lot of companies [TS]

00:58:23   that's the method they have to use I've [TS]

00:58:25   heard here and there that some groups [TS]

00:58:27   with an apple use one password but and [TS]

00:58:29   they they depend on that feature being [TS]

00:58:30   there because they you know Apple I [TS]

00:58:32   don't think would permit its employees [TS]

00:58:34   to have passwords stored on some [TS]

00:58:36   external service or synced via Dropbox [TS]

00:58:38   or anything like that so I do think one [TS]

00:58:42   password moving to a subscription [TS]

00:58:45   pricing model is totally fine and yeah [TS]

00:58:50   people are gonna get mad but it's that's [TS]

00:58:51   probably fine and by the way they [TS]

00:58:54   haven't said they're doing that all [TS]

00:58:56   they've they basically just like laid [TS]

00:58:58   some groundwork in some commentary that [TS]

00:59:00   suggests that they're considering that [TS]

00:59:02   in the future but they're not they [TS]

00:59:04   haven't actually said that yet but [TS]

00:59:06   anyway I do think a move to subscription [TS]

00:59:09   pricing is probably fine and probably [TS]

00:59:12   the right move for a lot of software [TS]

00:59:14   companies that that require ongoing work [TS]

00:59:16   for their products to work and by the [TS]

00:59:18   way you might say person listening who [TS]

00:59:20   hates descriptions you might say well [TS]

00:59:21   it's just a password manager why do I [TS]

00:59:23   have to pay every month for this well [TS]

00:59:25   what happens when the new version of [TS]

00:59:27   Chrome comes out and their extension [TS]

00:59:28   breaks they have to fix their extension [TS]

00:59:30   what happens when a new and when like [TS]

00:59:32   people find websites the extension [TS]

00:59:34   doesn't work on and they have to fix [TS]

00:59:36   that new versions of iOS come out and [TS]

00:59:37   they have to update to 64-bit or [TS]

00:59:39   whatever like there's oh there's [TS]

00:59:40   constantly ongoing work here one [TS]

00:59:42   password is a very complicated app with [TS]

00:59:45   lots of different components [TS]

00:59:46   it runs on many different operating [TS]

00:59:47   systems and it runs in every web browser [TS]

00:59:50   and it runs an iOS extensions and like [TS]

00:59:52   it's it's on all these different [TS]

00:59:54   platforms all these different parts of [TS]

00:59:55   it that are all too interdependent and [TS]

00:59:57   have to interact with the way [TS]

00:59:57   have to interact with the way [TS]

01:00:00   AB which is a constantly changing [TS]

01:00:02   environment so they have to put constant [TS]

01:00:05   efforts that whether you realize it or [TS]

01:00:06   not if they stopped or if your version [TS]

01:00:09   stopped getting updates you'd be mad [TS]

01:00:10   because it wouldn't work as well so [TS]

01:00:13   subscription pricing I'm on board with [TS]

01:00:16   that and by the way I do pay for this [TS]

01:00:18   eruption I started paying for it that's [TS]

01:00:21   six months ago when I started reducing [TS]

01:00:23   my dependence on Dropbox I switched to [TS]

01:00:25   their sync system and it's been totally [TS]

01:00:27   fine however the removal of local vaults [TS]

01:00:31   if that is the plan I think that's a [TS]

01:00:34   mistake for this app because that will [TS]

01:00:37   probably cost them a lot of customers [TS]

01:00:39   that can never come back even if they [TS]

01:00:41   change their mind about how they want to [TS]

01:00:42   pay so I do think they should probably I [TS]

01:00:44   mean they know better than whether than [TS]

01:00:47   I do [TS]

01:00:47   what their customers want but me sitting [TS]

01:00:49   over here as an armchair observer [TS]

01:00:50   I think removing local vaults is [TS]

01:00:52   probably a bad idea but subscription [TS]

01:00:55   pricing is fine I think the reason they [TS]

01:00:58   might be tempted to entangle these two [TS]

01:01:00   things is current pricing and the the [TS]

01:01:02   whole cloud sync or whatever is that [TS]

01:01:04   companies still feel for all a lot of [TS]

01:01:07   the reasons that you just mentioned that [TS]

01:01:08   they want to have a story about why [TS]

01:01:11   you're paying every month and any kind [TS]

01:01:13   of cloud sync thing where they store [TS]

01:01:15   your data on their servers that they run [TS]

01:01:17   it's like oh well you're paying us every [TS]

01:01:19   month because we're taking your data and [TS]

01:01:20   we're storing it in our servers and we [TS]

01:01:21   have to pay money to run those servers [TS]

01:01:23   and it's like it's it's something you [TS]

01:01:25   can explain to people have a better [TS]

01:01:27   chance of explaining to people like why [TS]

01:01:28   am I paying for this every month right [TS]

01:01:30   but in reality the reason they need you [TS]

01:01:33   to pay for every month is everything [TS]

01:01:34   that Margo just said it's nothing to do [TS]

01:01:35   with oh we have to run servers there's [TS]

01:01:37   no servers involved whatsoever it is [TS]

01:01:38   entirely local vaults and direct [TS]

01:01:40   device-to-device sync and they didn't [TS]

01:01:42   run any servers you should still pay the [TS]

01:01:45   monthly like in the same way that you [TS]

01:01:46   would for like Photoshop or whatever [TS]

01:01:47   because that's the business model that [TS]

01:01:48   allows them to continue to support their [TS]

01:01:51   software and it's kind of one of the [TS]

01:01:55   goals I feel like modern software [TS]

01:01:57   applications is to become valuable [TS]

01:01:59   enough that people will pay you monthly [TS]

01:02:01   obviously artists who make their living [TS]

01:02:03   you know in Photoshop or illustrator or [TS]

01:02:06   whatever it's a no-brainer as a business [TS]

01:02:08   expense that they make more money you [TS]

01:02:11   know if they're experts in Photoshop and [TS]

01:02:13   I like [TS]

01:02:13   well I'm gonna learn an entirely new [TS]

01:02:15   graphics program or find something else [TS]

01:02:16   that I can do move working because I [TS]

01:02:17   don't want no you'll totally pay the [TS]

01:02:19   monthly fee because that's how valuable [TS]

01:02:20   Photoshop is for your work and for [TS]

01:02:23   things like password managers or you [TS]

01:02:26   know maybe text editors in some cases or [TS]

01:02:29   whatever some sort of integral tool [TS]

01:02:31   that's like it's not just a frivolous [TS]

01:02:32   thing that you have on your Mac that you [TS]

01:02:34   kind of like it's like no I can't get my [TS]

01:02:36   work done without this even something [TS]

01:02:37   like slack where if your whole company [TS]

01:02:39   starts using slack and like your company [TS]

01:02:41   runs on slack you realize it's like [TS]

01:02:44   valuable enough to our company for us to [TS]

01:02:46   pay whatever slack is charging for it [TS]

01:02:48   like and there's a limited number of [TS]

01:02:50   those types of applications you can't [TS]

01:02:51   look in your Applications folder and say [TS]

01:02:53   oh I'm gonna pay a subscription for [TS]

01:02:54   every single of those out so you won't [TS]

01:02:55   they're not all that valuable to you so [TS]

01:02:57   if you're making software these this in [TS]

01:03:01   these days it should be your goal to be [TS]

01:03:02   one of those applications is valuable [TS]

01:03:05   enough for people to pay a subscription [TS]

01:03:07   fee for it and a password manager I [TS]

01:03:08   think is definitely in that category of [TS]

01:03:11   things because we all have lots of [TS]

01:03:12   passwords and we want to store them [TS]

01:03:15   securely and we want it to be convenient [TS]

01:03:17   but also you know not vulnerable and [TS]

01:03:21   like don't want to have to think about [TS]

01:03:23   the security we want an application that [TS]

01:03:24   has a long life a company that has a [TS]

01:03:26   reputation for security that's not owned [TS]

01:03:28   by you know an advertising company or [TS]

01:03:31   something like that and so I feel like [TS]

01:03:33   one password will eventually do well if [TS]

01:03:35   I can get through this transition [TS]

01:03:36   because people are motivated to pay them [TS]

01:03:39   money on a recurring basis just so they [TS]

01:03:42   don't get bought up by some evil [TS]

01:03:43   corporation or aren't tempted to sell [TS]

01:03:45   the personal information and do [TS]

01:03:46   something dumb and like a lot of the [TS]

01:03:47   stuff with that you know the clouds sink [TS]

01:03:49   and you know I don't want to type my one [TS]

01:03:51   password into a webpage because who [TS]

01:03:52   knows what could be happening like in [TS]

01:03:54   the end you have to trust the company [TS]

01:03:56   that makes one password because they [TS]

01:03:58   control the field that you're typing [TS]

01:04:00   your one password into and you don't [TS]

01:04:02   know what they're doing with that they [TS]

01:04:03   could be grabbing all your keystrokes [TS]

01:04:04   and sending it off to someone for you [TS]

01:04:06   know but they're not like that's why you [TS]

01:04:07   buy from them because you know this is a [TS]

01:04:08   company that's good I trust their [TS]

01:04:10   reputation right so I think their [TS]

01:04:13   customer waste would be enough in the [TS]

01:04:16   customer base will be willing to pay [TS]

01:04:18   them a recurring subscription even if [TS]

01:04:20   there was no server involved like you [TS]

01:04:22   don't need to convince them oh we'll run [TS]

01:04:24   servers for you and do it like [TS]

01:04:26   local vault only in fact maybe they were [TS]

01:04:28   willing to pay more for the fund with [TS]

01:04:30   fewer features so this is an interesting [TS]

01:04:31   case because like Margot was saying [TS]

01:04:33   they're not just any random application [TS]

01:04:36   they're a specific kind of application [TS]

01:04:38   with specific privacy concerns that [TS]

01:04:40   makes it so that like cloud sync or [TS]

01:04:43   cloud storage is almost a demerit [TS]

01:04:46   against them in terms of privacy and it [TS]

01:04:49   should not be tied in any way to their [TS]

01:04:51   recurring revenue so yeah easy for us to [TS]

01:04:54   say perhaps computer nerds who like love [TS]

01:04:58   to pay for software or software [TS]

01:04:59   developers ourselves who you know make [TS]

01:05:02   our living some other people paying for [TS]

01:05:03   our software but you know when I talk to [TS]

01:05:07   non computer enthusiasts the people who [TS]

01:05:11   just you know they're not into computers [TS]

01:05:12   at all they have a phone obviously they [TS]

01:05:14   have maybe they have a computer or [TS]

01:05:15   whatever the idea of paying anything at [TS]

01:05:18   all ever for software still seems alien [TS]

01:05:20   to a lot of people so again the you know [TS]

01:05:25   the strategy is to both become valuable [TS]

01:05:28   enough that people are willing to pay [TS]

01:05:30   and probably to make an application that [TS]

01:05:34   appeals to people who are acquainted [TS]

01:05:36   with the concept of paying money for [TS]

01:05:38   software yes don't make an application [TS]

01:05:40   that appeals greatly to people who have [TS]

01:05:44   never paid for software and think it's [TS]

01:05:46   ridiculous to do so because even if you [TS]

01:05:47   make an application that they all love [TS]

01:05:48   they'll never pay you for it it's bad [TS]

01:05:50   make make an application people who are [TS]

01:05:53   willing to pay for software and make it [TS]

01:05:56   your application valuable enough for [TS]

01:05:58   them that they're willing to pay on a [TS]

01:05:59   recurring basis and it's just a question [TS]

01:06:01   of finding the right price I'll be [TS]

01:06:02   saying I could have pay $700 a month for [TS]

01:06:04   a password manager unless maybe you know [TS]

01:06:07   it's some SuperDuper secure one that has [TS]

01:06:10   some sort of you know legal indemnity it [TS]

01:06:12   goes with their so it probably cost them [TS]

01:06:13   more than $70 a month right but they pay [TS]

01:06:16   one cent a month so find the right [TS]

01:06:19   number between 1 cent and $700 and you [TS]

01:06:22   know I mean like that that's part of how [TS]

01:06:25   adobe has managed their pricing where [TS]

01:06:27   like you know Creative Suite is [TS]

01:06:29   something like 50 bucks a month if you [TS]

01:06:31   buy the whole thing and you know it goes [TS]

01:06:32   down from there if you only need parts [TS]

01:06:34   of it but if you if you were buying it [TS]

01:06:36   before you like in the [TS]

01:06:39   they have priced it such that it [TS]

01:06:41   actually is fairly comparable to if you [TS]

01:06:45   were actually just buying it every [TS]

01:06:47   version or two before now a lot of the [TS]

01:06:49   customers weren't buying it at all a lot [TS]

01:06:51   of them pirating it and a lot of them [TS]

01:06:53   were also not buying every version like [TS]

01:06:56   that you know they would skip versions [TS]

01:06:57   or they would buy one and use it for six [TS]

01:07:00   years because they just didn't care [TS]

01:07:01   about the stuff in the new versions or [TS]

01:07:03   they didn't want to spend the money or [TS]

01:07:04   they couldn't for the money whatever [TS]

01:07:05   else but for the most part they set the [TS]

01:07:07   pricing of the subscription such that if [TS]

01:07:09   you were buying it already it actually [TS]

01:07:12   is a sensible price and that's why I [TS]

01:07:14   subscribe to Adobe Creative Suite [TS]

01:07:16   because I was buying them already and so [TS]

01:07:18   it ended up like yeah this is actually [TS]

01:07:20   totally fine and yeah for them like I I [TS]

01:07:23   think they can set a price that makes [TS]

01:07:26   sense here I honestly don't even [TS]

01:07:27   remember what I'm paying them because [TS]

01:07:29   it's too much for me to pay for I can [TS]

01:07:32   tell you that because I have cs6 the [TS]

01:07:33   last non-cloud version sorry one [TS]

01:07:36   password is what I'm talking about oh oh [TS]

01:07:39   it's five dollars a month for the family [TS]

01:07:42   plan three dollars a month for the [TS]

01:07:43   individuals that's okay that's totally [TS]

01:07:45   fine [TS]

01:07:46   I think there might be a discount if you [TS]

01:07:48   go a year at a time I'm not positive [TS]

01:07:49   about that so I might be wrong but I [TS]

01:07:51   mean five dollars a month a soda at a [TS]

01:07:54   regular restaurant like when John is [TS]

01:07:57   feeling really really saucy and wants to [TS]

01:08:00   get himself a sprite at a restaurant [TS]

01:08:01   that's probably 250 and he's literally [TS]

01:08:04   pissing that away a few hours later this [TS]

01:08:06   is five dollars I mean this is not a lot [TS]

01:08:09   of money but that isn't how people think [TS]

01:08:10   about it like that you know you know [TS]

01:08:15   people think about this at all but yeah [TS]

01:08:19   I mean yeah one password being three or [TS]

01:08:21   five dollars a month that's totally fine [TS]

01:08:24   because you know it is a power user [TS]

01:08:26   productivity security tool that is often [TS]

01:08:31   used by businesses like all of those [TS]

01:08:33   words are things that things that can [TS]

01:08:36   make paying for software you know [TS]

01:08:38   valuable and reasonable and yeah the [TS]

01:08:41   it's this is no brainer to me like just [TS]

01:08:43   to to ensure that this app is [TS]

01:08:46   financially healthy and here for the [TS]

01:08:48   long haul [TS]

01:08:50   three dollars a month is totally fine we [TS]

01:08:54   are sponsored this week by hover go to [TS]

01:08:56   hover comm /a tp'ing at 10% off your [TS]

01:08:59   first purchase hover is domain names for [TS]

01:09:01   your ideas when you have a great idea [TS]

01:09:04   for a blog or a store or a new site you [TS]

01:09:06   need to give it a great domain name and [TS]

01:09:08   hover makes it very very easy to find a [TS]

01:09:10   wonderful domain name that's available [TS]

01:09:12   and set it up very easily so when all [TS]

01:09:14   you need to do is buy a domain name or [TS]

01:09:16   an email address you shouldn't have to [TS]

01:09:17   go through page after page of add-ons [TS]

01:09:19   and decline them all hover only offers [TS]

01:09:21   domains and email so and that's all you [TS]

01:09:24   need you can focus on finding a great [TS]

01:09:25   domain name and getting back to work on [TS]

01:09:27   your great idea [TS]

01:09:28   hover also believes you shouldn't have [TS]

01:09:30   to pay for things that should be [TS]

01:09:31   included just by common sense so unlike [TS]

01:09:34   most domain providers hover includes [TS]

01:09:36   free Whois privacy with all supported [TS]

01:09:38   domain so that way your registration [TS]

01:09:40   information which by default is is [TS]

01:09:42   public but in other registrar's that's [TS]

01:09:44   published you know for anybody to see [TS]

01:09:46   hover hide that with Whois privacy by [TS]

01:09:49   default on all domains it's supported so [TS]

01:09:52   they make it very very easy for you to [TS]

01:09:53   sign up and it's just common sense stuff [TS]

01:09:55   and it's very easy to use very [TS]

01:09:56   well-designed they have over 400 domain [TS]

01:09:59   extensions that you can end your name [TS]

01:10:00   with so no matter what your name is you [TS]

01:10:03   can find something that's available so [TS]

01:10:05   they have classics like ComNet they also [TS]

01:10:07   have some more specialized ones like dot [TS]

01:10:09   design and dot tech and there's also [TS]

01:10:11   they're really kind of crazy funny ones [TS]

01:10:13   that are recently added like dot pizza [TS]

01:10:15   and dot ninja there's so many available [TS]

01:10:17   however will make it easy to find a [TS]

01:10:19   domain that's available for you and they [TS]

01:10:21   make it very easy to set up once you [TS]

01:10:22   have it they have a feature called hover [TS]

01:10:23   connect which lets you automatically set [TS]

01:10:25   up any kind of common settings with [TS]

01:10:27   common web host so you don't have to [TS]

01:10:29   like dig through help articles and [TS]

01:10:30   figure out which DNS settings work with [TS]

01:10:32   your host they have all this built into [TS]

01:10:34   hover connect and if you do by the way [TS]

01:10:36   if you need to manually set things up [TS]

01:10:37   there interface for it is wonderful I've [TS]

01:10:39   used it a lot of times myself and it's [TS]

01:10:41   great just very easy to use and if you [TS]

01:10:43   need a hand with any of this hovers [TS]

01:10:45   awesome support team is there to help [TS]

01:10:46   you you can give them a call if you want [TS]

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01:10:59   that today go to hover comm slash ATP [TS]

01:11:02   they have so many great feature [TS]

01:11:04   and it's such a pleasure to use hover I [TS]

01:11:05   use it myself and I absolutely love it [TS]

01:11:07   check it out today hover comm slash ATP [TS]

01:11:10   will get you 10% off your first purchase [TS]

01:11:12   hover domain names for your ideas hi [TS]

01:11:19   Marco tell me about what's going on with [TS]

01:11:20   overcast these days because I have I [TS]

01:11:22   feel like I haven't heard much which [TS]

01:11:23   means either you're not working or more [TS]

01:11:25   likely you're working a lot and you're [TS]

01:11:27   just keeping it all quiet I'm mostly not [TS]

01:11:29   working because you know summer however [TS]

01:11:32   when I am working I I have a dilemma and [TS]

01:11:35   I talked about it under the radar [TS]

01:11:37   recently but but in case you know the [TS]

01:11:40   listener base of that is not the [TS]

01:11:41   listener base of this so there are [TS]

01:11:42   people who haven't heard it and I [TS]

01:11:43   haven't heard what you who probably [TS]

01:11:45   won't care and especially what John who [TS]

01:11:47   probably has an opinion about this think [TS]

01:11:49   about this so my my main dilemma with [TS]

01:11:52   updating overcast to iOS 11 is iOS 11 [TS]

01:11:57   adds drag-and-drop stuff to the standard [TS]

01:12:00   system widgets oh I have opinions about [TS]

01:12:02   this I definitely have opinions you can [TS]

01:12:04   now full time reorder table views and [TS]

01:12:08   collection views in iOS if if the app [TS]

01:12:10   supports it and supporting it is very [TS]

01:12:12   easy I already built my own full-time [TS]

01:12:15   reordering system to reorder items and [TS]

01:12:18   playlists and overcast so you can drag [TS]

01:12:20   around episodes and you can reorder them [TS]

01:12:21   right there with the little drag handles [TS]

01:12:23   on the right side doing this in my way [TS]

01:12:26   was an incredibly complex pile of hacks [TS]

01:12:28   that works most of the time but has a [TS]

01:12:32   few weird little random bugs that I just [TS]

01:12:35   cannot solve and will probably never [TS]

01:12:37   solve but for the most part it does work [TS]

01:12:39   and it's fast and it's it's very clear [TS]

01:12:41   and discoverable right there I also have [TS]

01:12:44   a problem with overcast 3.0 the method [TS]

01:12:47   that I chose of of tapping the the [TS]

01:12:51   episode sells shouldn't expand a little [TS]

01:12:52   menu like you know Tweetbot style and [TS]

01:12:55   the and that the play button is one of [TS]

01:12:57   the items in that menu as opposed to the [TS]

01:12:59   previous behavior we're just tapping on [TS]

01:13:01   an episode row would just immediately [TS]

01:13:02   start playing it no matter what [TS]

01:13:03   a lot of people still do not like this [TS]

01:13:06   and the user base seem this seems like a [TS]

01:13:09   very polarizing decision among the user [TS]

01:13:12   base and it and it has not stopped [TS]

01:13:14   beating polarizing it people have not [TS]

01:13:15   gotten used to it that you know I am [TS]

01:13:17   used to it and I like [TS]

01:13:18   but a lot of people still don't and they [TS]

01:13:20   seem to not be changing so it doesn't [TS]

01:13:23   seem like this is a kind of thing where [TS]

01:13:24   oh you'll just get used to having just [TS]

01:13:26   tapped twice to play you know like a lot [TS]

01:13:27   of people really hate having a tap twice [TS]

01:13:29   to play so my idea is what if I replace [TS]

01:13:32   the drag handle on the right side of the [TS]

01:13:35   cells with a one tap play button move [TS]

01:13:38   the info button that's there in [TS]

01:13:40   selection mode down to where the play [TS]

01:13:41   button was and you know the middle of [TS]

01:13:42   that little bar menu that comes up and [TS]

01:13:44   then use these systems full time drag [TS]

01:13:47   rotor and control replacing my giant [TS]

01:13:50   pile of hacks I think this is a good [TS]

01:13:52   idea there are lots of advantages of [TS]

01:13:55   doing this however one of the big [TS]

01:13:58   disadvantages of doing this first of all [TS]

01:14:00   it's another change people hate change [TS]

01:14:02   so I'm now moving the play button again [TS]

01:14:04   which even though people have been [TS]

01:14:08   screaming their heads off for one for [TS]

01:14:10   one tap play to come back if I give that [TS]

01:14:12   to them a different group people will [TS]

01:14:14   scream their heads off that I moved it [TS]

01:14:15   and then the other problem is that the [TS]

01:14:18   system drag and drop implementation has [TS]

01:14:22   a small delay where you have to hold the [TS]

01:14:24   cell down before it pops up to be [TS]

01:14:26   draggable and mine before my hack job [TS]

01:14:29   was instant you can just immediately [TS]

01:14:32   drive it handle and you wouldn't have to [TS]

01:14:33   wait so the system version of it is a [TS]

01:14:36   little bit slower to activate however [TS]

01:14:39   the system version will also allow me to [TS]

01:14:41   put the play button on the side of the [TS]

01:14:43   cell so it's so I would bring back one [TS]

01:14:46   tap playing at least didn't like the [TS]

01:14:47   right quarter of the cell it wouldn't be [TS]

01:14:49   the full width of the cell because I'd [TS]

01:14:50   still have the little pop-up menu if you [TS]

01:14:52   tap the rest of the cell but if you tap [TS]

01:14:53   a little right side thing that could be [TS]

01:14:55   a play button and I could make the touch [TS]

01:14:57   target you know pretty pretty tall and [TS]

01:14:59   wide on that so people could get their [TS]

01:15:01   OneTouch playback I also I could get rid [TS]

01:15:03   of my giant hack which barely works now [TS]

01:15:07   and is likely to break in future iOS [TS]

01:15:09   updates so I think I should do this [TS]

01:15:13   but how how big of a problem is it that [TS]

01:15:16   that the new standard of reordering [TS]

01:15:18   method has a small delay before you [TS]

01:15:20   activate it this is not a question and I [TS]

01:15:25   really really love under the radar but [TS]

01:15:27   there are episodes where I switch from [TS]

01:15:30   loving and listening [TS]

01:15:31   to hate listening and under the radar [TS]

01:15:33   because I so deeply disagree with one or [TS]

01:15:36   both of you and I started this [TS]

01:15:39   particular episode which I believe is [TS]

01:15:41   number 87 I'll have a link in the show [TS]

01:15:42   notes it's never longer than 30 minutes [TS]

01:15:43   so let's get started anyway uh the this [TS]

01:15:46   episode I started a hate listening and [TS]

01:15:48   then ended up just listening and [TS]

01:15:50   enjoying because my opinion spoiler [TS]

01:15:53   alert is that you talked yourself into [TS]

01:15:55   implementing this using the new api's by [TS]

01:15:58   the end of the episode now it sounds [TS]

01:15:59   like maybe that isn't quite so cut and [TS]

01:16:01   dried since you're talking about it with [TS]

01:16:02   us now but to me this is not even a [TS]

01:16:05   question [TS]

01:16:06   this is absolutely using you API and a [TS]

01:16:09   meeting and there's a couple reasons for [TS]

01:16:11   that number one it may feel weird now [TS]

01:16:14   that you have a little bit of a delay [TS]

01:16:16   and whatnot but I don't think it will [TS]

01:16:18   feel weird soon now in your defense [TS]

01:16:21   drag and drop I suspect is going to be a [TS]

01:16:23   lot less prevalent on the iPhone than it [TS]

01:16:25   is on the iPad so those of us who [TS]

01:16:27   perhaps only he's overcast on the iPhone [TS]

01:16:29   and maybe don't use iPads that often it [TS]

01:16:32   may feel a little weird at first and [TS]

01:16:33   like you said moving the UI around is [TS]

01:16:35   always gonna tick somebody off but more [TS]

01:16:38   than somebody well you know what I mean [TS]

01:16:40   many somebody's off but as someone who [TS]

01:16:44   really really really dislikes [TS]

01:16:46   third-party libraries because you feel [TS]

01:16:48   like you have no control over them and [TS]

01:16:49   oftentimes they are pile of hacks and [TS]

01:16:51   really it's kind of a dangerous position [TS]

01:16:56   to put yourself in to have a third-party [TS]

01:16:57   library especially one that's like [TS]

01:16:59   really really um I can't think the way [TS]

01:17:02   to phrase it but like it's wide reaching [TS]

01:17:04   and it's it's taking a system thing and [TS]

01:17:06   it's totally rejiggering it and you're [TS]

01:17:08   like wed to this library you have [TS]

01:17:11   created your own first party equivalent [TS]

01:17:13   of that and you must burn it with fire [TS]

01:17:15   as soon as you possibly can this is not [TS]

01:17:17   a question you must get rid of it you [TS]

01:17:19   must use new api's end a meeting John [TS]

01:17:22   what do you think what a question and if [TS]

01:17:25   you use the native dragging thing can [TS]

01:17:28   you do a thing where you like whatever [TS]

01:17:30   tap and hold so it like it pops up and [TS]

01:17:33   ieave you've grabbed it can you with [TS]

01:17:35   another finger flick scroll the stuff [TS]

01:17:38   behind it yes and it's amazing so it [TS]

01:17:40   solves your problem of like this of the [TS]

01:17:43   bump bump bump bump bump scrolling speed [TS]

01:17:45   so you have to do it then and you can [TS]

01:17:46   pick up multiple items well yeah I don't [TS]

01:17:49   think I don't be doing that too much but [TS]

01:17:50   maybe on the iPad but yeah no you [TS]

01:17:51   totally need to do the native things I [TS]

01:17:53   think the native native dragging yes [TS]

01:17:57   alright the second question is okay so I [TS]

01:17:59   do native Gregg now I have these two [TS]

01:18:01   options I don't need the drag handles [TS]

01:18:02   anymore or whatever what do I do with [TS]

01:18:04   that space and for that I think I'll [TS]

01:18:05   have to use it to see what it's like I [TS]

01:18:07   understood what you're getting out of [TS]

01:18:08   the pay but I didn't play about I'll be [TS]

01:18:09   over here the info button will be in a [TS]

01:18:10   little you know expanded bar thing maybe [TS]

01:18:13   that will be fine maybe will be weird I [TS]

01:18:14   don't know I think it's worth separating [TS]

01:18:16   like determined determining like exactly [TS]

01:18:18   what to do with this newfound space and [TS]

01:18:20   freedom and gesture freedom because I'm [TS]

01:18:22   not entirely sure but native and drop [TS]

01:18:25   you know seems like a no-brainer like a [TS]

01:18:26   city get rid of your hacks it's it's a [TS]

01:18:29   better interface and as drag-and-drop in [TS]

01:18:31   theory becomes more prevalent into what [TS]

01:18:33   people will expect so just do it [TS]

01:18:35   and I also forgot to mention that I am [TS]

01:18:37   one of those people who is still grumbly [TS]

01:18:38   about the fact that there's a to tap [TS]

01:18:40   play scheme and so bringing back the [TS]

01:18:44   play button on the right will make me [TS]

01:18:45   very happy and we all know that overcast [TS]

01:18:48   is written specifically to make KC happy [TS]

01:18:50   so yeah I think you're I think you're [TS]

01:18:52   gonna have to do it Marco if I do that [TS]

01:18:54   can can you stop asking me for a Mac up [TS]

01:18:56   well when's the last time I've asked you [TS]

01:18:58   for one cuz every you know I'll tell you [TS]

01:18:59   yeah I'll tell you when the last time I [TS]

01:19:02   asked for a Mac app was probably about a [TS]

01:19:04   day or two before I got my air pods [TS]

01:19:06   because now the reason I wanted a Mac up [TS]

01:19:08   so badly was because you know the [TS]

01:19:11   Bluetooth headphones that I was using [TS]

01:19:12   previously we're such a pain to switch [TS]

01:19:14   between my Mac and my iPhone but now [TS]

01:19:16   with the air pods it takes two seconds [TS]

01:19:18   to switch between them so what I'm [TS]

01:19:20   listening to overcast I'm connected to [TS]

01:19:21   my phone and when I'm listening to [TS]

01:19:22   anything else in the world I'm connected [TS]

01:19:24   to my Mac and it's nowhere speaking of [TS]

01:19:27   apps that Marco doesn't want to develop [TS]

01:19:29   and/or maintain I have a report for the [TS]

01:19:33   Mac version or another or the web [TS]

01:19:35   version of overcast Oh God alright so [TS]

01:19:38   frequently people will tweet over gas [TS]

01:19:41   links with offsets which is cool it's [TS]

01:19:42   like that's exactly what you want I'm [TS]

01:19:43   gonna tap this link and it's going to [TS]

01:19:44   take me right to the second in the [TS]

01:19:46   podcast that they're trying to refer me [TS]

01:19:48   to right as long as this is a major NPR [TS]

01:19:50   podcast yes yeah but if it is a podcast [TS]

01:19:55   that I subscribe to and in the middle of [TS]

01:19:57   listening [TS]

01:19:58   - is it just my imagination or does that [TS]

01:20:01   throw off my offset because I'm logged [TS]

01:20:03   into my over assed account and it sent [TS]

01:20:05   me to an offset and I play it it syncs [TS]

01:20:08   that offset and now I've lost where I [TS]

01:20:09   was because I was earlier or later and [TS]

01:20:11   the thing is that a thing or is my [TS]

01:20:13   imagination that is indeed what happens [TS]

01:20:14   and I've thought about this before like [TS]

01:20:16   whether that should be what happens or [TS]

01:20:18   not and it it's it's hard because it's [TS]

01:20:20   like if you when you put it this way [TS]

01:20:22   yeah that shouldn't happen you're right [TS]

01:20:24   but what would the alternative be and it [TS]

01:20:28   would you say okay well what should [TS]

01:20:29   happen like if you're if you're logged [TS]

01:20:31   in and if you have this podcast in your [TS]

01:20:34   list so it so it's not unplayed or [TS]

01:20:37   rather it's not played like it's it's an [TS]

01:20:38   active item in your list and you have a [TS]

01:20:40   position in it then you get sent a [TS]

01:20:43   timestamp link for different time in [TS]

01:20:45   that then should it play that but then [TS]

01:20:47   not ever update your synced position [TS]

01:20:50   what if you play past your synced [TS]

01:20:52   position should it update it then like [TS]

01:20:54   it's it's fairly complex as to what it [TS]

01:20:56   should do and so I haven't really [TS]

01:20:58   addressed it yet what do you think it [TS]

01:20:59   should do I think it should pretty sure [TS]

01:21:02   it should just not update the the synced [TS]

01:21:04   position only if you go to a link with [TS]

01:21:07   an offset in it but I can't think of a [TS]

01:21:09   scenario where I would I would at the [TS]

01:21:11   playhead would be at some non-zero [TS]

01:21:12   position in the podcast right I think is [TS]

01:21:17   the tricky bit that you're talking about [TS]

01:21:18   is like I haven't started playing it [TS]

01:21:20   then I'm not quite sure what to do but [TS]

01:21:21   if I have started to play it I think [TS]

01:21:25   it's pretty clear that you and I go to [TS]

01:21:27   an offset I want to play from that [TS]

01:21:30   offset in the web player and have it not [TS]

01:21:32   affect my other offset because I can't [TS]

01:21:34   think of a scenario where I would want [TS]

01:21:35   it to affect it why would why would I [TS]

01:21:36   formulate an overcast web link for [TS]

01:21:39   myself to jump to an offset with the [TS]

01:21:42   intention of me going fair now if the [TS]

01:21:44   thing is at the zero position I haven't [TS]

01:21:45   started playing and I go to an offset to [TS]

01:21:47   listen to a thing I personally would [TS]

01:21:49   also like it not to update the thing [TS]

01:21:51   because very often what happens is it [TS]

01:21:53   does update it and then I will go to [TS]

01:21:55   that episode and it'll start playing a [TS]

01:21:57   bit like I guess I listened to the [TS]

01:21:59   beginning of this one huh because here I [TS]

01:22:01   am in the middle of it like I'll forget [TS]

01:22:02   I don't realize no I just I just missed [TS]

01:22:04   the entire beginning because of that [TS]

01:22:05   offset link that I followed like you [TS]

01:22:07   know three days ago or whatever so [TS]

01:22:09   my solution obviously is just just if [TS]

01:22:11   you just run your web browser in [TS]

01:22:13   incognito mode or whatever when you tap [TS]

01:22:16   that link it you know you won't be [TS]

01:22:17   logged into overcast or log yourself out [TS]

01:22:19   of overcast [TS]

01:22:19   that's a terrible solution I know but [TS]

01:22:22   anyway if you're just looking for the [TS]

01:22:25   quick fix quick fix is offset in URL [TS]

01:22:28   equals never sync playhead position and [TS]

01:22:30   then just make a different set of people [TS]

01:22:31   angry I think that's right actually that [TS]

01:22:34   that actually sounds like a really good [TS]

01:22:35   solution that yeah because if if there's [TS]

01:22:38   an offset in New York because the [TS]

01:22:39   regular web interface does not put those [TS]

01:22:40   off it's there so if there's an offset [TS]

01:22:43   in the URL just don't touch the synced [TS]

01:22:45   position at all yeah I think that makes [TS]

01:22:47   sense to me too yeah so like it's kind [TS]

01:22:50   of like the one tap to play like you for [TS]

01:22:53   a few years make one set of people angry [TS]

01:22:54   and then you just put you back and then [TS]

01:22:56   for a few more years make those at [TS]

01:22:58   people angry and then yeah I think you [TS]

01:23:00   know so really how many people use the [TS]

01:23:01   web interface right honestly very few [TS]

01:23:04   it's it's a very like just get all of us [TS]

01:23:06   in the chat room that actually might be [TS]

01:23:10   possible like it's it's very few people [TS]

01:23:12   like and every time somebody tweets a [TS]

01:23:16   web link with overcast there are [TS]

01:23:19   responses that are like oh my god I [TS]

01:23:20   don't know how to have web interface [TS]

01:23:22   like no one knows it's there and even [TS]

01:23:24   the people who do know it's there no one [TS]

01:23:26   uses it and yes that part of that is [TS]

01:23:28   because it's pretty bare-bones and I [TS]

01:23:29   could make it a lot better or more or [TS]

01:23:32   more full-featured if I put a lot of [TS]

01:23:34   work into it but it's kind of chicken [TS]

01:23:36   and egg thing like part of the reason I [TS]

01:23:37   don't put a lot of work into it is that [TS]

01:23:39   nobody uses it [TS]

01:23:39   I'm also glad you don't Chuck me into [TS]

01:23:41   the app because that's the other option [TS]

01:23:42   that most people would do yeah that's no [TS]

01:23:44   there's a web interface but it [TS]

01:23:46   immediately knows but you have the app [TS]

01:23:48   installed and Chuck's it to the app [TS]

01:23:49   because does I certainly don't want you [TS]

01:23:51   to go into the app again if you're [TS]

01:23:52   playing if it's an episode that I [TS]

01:23:54   haven't started playing it or a one that [TS]

01:23:55   I'm in the middle of I don't want it to [TS]

01:23:56   go into my app and change my playhead [TS]

01:23:59   position like inside the app if you if [TS]

01:24:00   you did send to the app I would say go [TS]

01:24:03   to the app but open a totally alternate [TS]

01:24:05   one time like you just saw it an offset [TS]

01:24:08   like player interface that is [TS]

01:24:09   disconnected entirely with the actual [TS]

01:24:12   listening interface because when you [TS]

01:24:14   follow a link with an offset someone's [TS]

01:24:15   trying to show you something in an [TS]

01:24:17   episode it is clearly not the same as I [TS]

01:24:19   am listening to the episode they're [TS]

01:24:20   trying to say here's this little snip [TS]

01:24:22   right here listen to this bit right and [TS]

01:24:24   that I feel like is a different activity [TS]

01:24:26   then I'm gonna now listen to the next [TS]

01:24:28   episode of my favorite podcast [TS]

01:24:30   alright thanks to our three sponsors [TS]

01:24:31   this week hover fracture and aftershocks [TS]

01:24:34   and we will see you next week [TS]

01:24:38   now the show is over [TS]

01:24:41   they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

01:24:44   accidental oh it was accidental johnny [TS]

01:24:50   research Margo and Casey wouldn't [TS]

01:24:54   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:24:57   accidental you can find the show today [TS]

01:25:10   CAS II WA L is Esther that's Casey less [TS]

01:25:15   and a are Co a RM auntie Marco Arment [TS]

01:25:20   are [TS]

01:25:22   [Music] [TS]

01:25:29   [Music] [TS]

01:25:38   so I I felt left out with you having [TS]

01:25:42   your impulse purchases uh-oh and so and [TS]

01:25:45   so Aaron and I bought a car tonight whoa [TS]

01:25:48   wait like during the show well not not a [TS]

01:25:52   car right well okay so I would call it a [TS]

01:25:55   truck but Aaron would correct me and say [TS]

01:25:58   no it's not a truck it's an SUV like a [TS]

01:26:00   big sneaker really sorry tennis shoes oh [TS]

01:26:02   that's so cruel I don't really get why [TS]

01:26:05   people are me but like people who call [TS]

01:26:07   SUVs trucks I feel like that's unearned [TS]

01:26:10   like a truck is a truck like if it [TS]

01:26:13   doesn't have like a bed on it like [TS]

01:26:15   that's not a truck yeah and that's [TS]

01:26:17   exactly what Aaron would say probably [TS]

01:26:19   verbatim to me anything that is taller [TS]

01:26:21   than a car is a truck I'm not saying I'm [TS]

01:26:23   right like I'm not trying to convince [TS]

01:26:25   the listeners or anyone or you to I'm [TS]

01:26:27   not saying I'm right it's just the way [TS]

01:26:29   I've always thought of it which which is [TS]

01:26:30   probably bananas but but yeah we we a [TS]

01:26:35   few hours ago bought Aaron a brand new [TS]

01:26:38   Volvo xc90 and it's very nice and we're [TS]

01:26:41   very happy and aaron is sad that she's [TS]

01:26:46   left her mazda6 behind we bought her a [TS]

01:26:49   Mazda 6 couple months after we got [TS]

01:26:52   married and so that car has been in the [TS]

01:26:55   family from knew that the the Mazda 6 [TS]

01:26:58   that is for almost exactly 10 years we [TS]

01:27:02   brought it home at the end of August of [TS]

01:27:04   2007 and we let it go today and it said [TS]

01:27:07   it's weird right because of course just [TS]

01:27:09   a thing right it's the machine but it's [TS]

01:27:11   kind of makes you sad when you see one [TS]

01:27:13   go especially well mark oh you wouldn't [TS]

01:27:15   know about this because you don't keep [TS]

01:27:16   cars for more than two minutes but for [TS]

01:27:17   those of us who keep cars for a while [TS]

01:27:19   like John and me yes it's uh it's it's [TS]

01:27:22   sad to see one go because it's been a [TS]

01:27:24   part of the family for so darn long I [TS]

01:27:26   totally get it I have felt that as well [TS]

01:27:28   and yeah I mean I I almost cried when I [TS]

01:27:31   gave up the m5 like it I liked it so [TS]

01:27:33   much like well Indu had a very unique [TS]

01:27:35   experience in that car so yeah I mean [TS]

01:27:39   sheshe was weepy I was on the verge of [TS]

01:27:42   weepy and it's funny because I I mean I [TS]

01:27:44   liked her Mazda [TS]

01:27:45   me wrong it was a very nice car in in [TS]

01:27:47   more than anything else it has given us [TS]

01:27:51   or had home it had given us no problems [TS]

01:27:54   in its ten years in I mean I think we [TS]

01:27:57   had to do an alternator once but [TS]

01:27:59   everything else was routine maintenance [TS]

01:28:01   I mean it was bulletproof which is [TS]

01:28:03   probably a Japanese thing in that you [TS]

01:28:06   know most Honda's I've heard about are [TS]

01:28:08   bulletproof most Toyota's or seem to be [TS]

01:28:11   bulletproof and this Mazda is was [TS]

01:28:14   certainly bulletproof there's one [TS]

01:28:15   individual Mazda 6 was bulletproof and [TS]

01:28:17   so so yeah so I was sad to see it go but [TS]

01:28:21   really excited to have the new car I [TS]

01:28:23   only have one question and you know what [TS]

01:28:25   it is it is not why not there was a [TS]

01:28:29   brief window of time where as I've [TS]

01:28:32   described and as you do not like to [TS]

01:28:34   agree but IIIi was backed into white on [TS]

01:28:37   my most recent car not the prior ones [TS]

01:28:39   the prior ones were more deliberate than [TS]

01:28:42   not but oh really it was only a Subaru [TS]

01:28:44   that was delivered anyway go with some [TS]

01:28:45   neutral and you'll get the the story but [TS]

01:28:47   I happens to be white yeah well the BMW [TS]

01:28:50   happen to be white and a couple of the [TS]

01:28:52   other cars happen to be white the Subaru [TS]

01:28:54   was a deliberate choice but anyway this [TS]

01:28:56   one is silver we wanted well maybe more [TS]

01:28:59   me than her I don't think she cared that [TS]

01:29:01   much [TS]

01:29:01   I wanted a deeper gray which happens to [TS]

01:29:03   be what her Mazda was but but for this [TS]

01:29:07   one we ended up can I can I complain for [TS]

01:29:11   a moment please [TS]

01:29:12   can I whine if that's what this show is [TS]

01:29:14   about you know yeah really [TS]

01:29:16   can I whine for a minute about how awful [TS]

01:29:20   it is to buy a car although I hear Tesla [TS]

01:29:22   it's just you go online in your price [TS]

01:29:24   and you pick it out and that's that I [TS]

01:29:25   don't know I don't want to hear about [TS]

01:29:26   yeah because it just makes order from [TS]

01:29:27   Tesla is like ordering from Amazon like [TS]

01:29:29   it's literally like Add to Cart buy [TS]

01:29:32   that's me so sad it makes me so sad so [TS]

01:29:34   when we bought Aaron's Mazda we started [TS]

01:29:39   the process in I think it was like [TS]

01:29:42   August of 2016 give or take a month and [TS]

01:29:44   we bought in August of 2017 and we [TS]

01:29:48   literally haggled with the dealer for a [TS]

01:29:51   year to get her car because we just [TS]

01:29:53   refused to budge on the price that we [TS]

01:29:55   wanted so we walked into the local [TS]

01:29:58   dealer at the end of December last year [TS]

01:30:01   I can't recall an exact day it doesn't [TS]

01:30:03   really matter but at the very end of [TS]

01:30:04   December I believe it was between [TS]

01:30:05   Christmas and New Year's I think and [TS]

01:30:07   today on the 17th of July we brought the [TS]

01:30:11   car home I have spent the last since [TS]

01:30:15   Thursday or Friday I have spent all day [TS]

01:30:18   every day [TS]

01:30:21   emailing every dealer between [TS]

01:30:24   Philadelphia and Greensboro North [TS]

01:30:26   Carolina trying to get a good deal on [TS]

01:30:29   this car now before anyone complains yes [TS]

01:30:32   I did this to myself but what ended up [TS]

01:30:35   happening was I emailed all these [TS]

01:30:37   dealers saying look what's your best [TS]

01:30:38   out-the-door price I don't I don't don't [TS]

01:30:40   even worry about a trade-in [TS]

01:30:41   just tell me with tax with everything [TS]

01:30:44   what is your best out-the-door price and [TS]

01:30:46   you would think that that would be easy [TS]

01:30:48   but of course it's not because their job [TS]

01:30:50   is to not give me their best out the [TS]

01:30:52   door price their job is to give me their [TS]

01:30:54   crappiest out the door price and hope [TS]

01:30:57   that I that I agree to it so what ended [TS]

01:31:00   up happening long story short is I got [TS]

01:31:04   our Richmond dealer in a bidding war [TS]

01:31:06   with a couple other dealers and we were [TS]

01:31:08   mostly the victors and so eventually we [TS]

01:31:11   got this car at an extreme well I think [TS]

01:31:14   of an extreme discount and I'm really [TS]

01:31:16   pleased with that [TS]

01:31:17   additionally valiant and you have to [TS]

01:31:20   understand that Aaron has never been a [TS]

01:31:21   particular fan of my car like she thinks [TS]

01:31:23   it's fine but she hates BMW drivers [TS]

01:31:25   because well we're all jerks and and so [TS]

01:31:28   she's never really been a tremendous fan [TS]

01:31:30   of my car [TS]

01:31:30   guess what cars saved her several [TS]

01:31:33   thousand dollars because of a Volvo [TS]

01:31:35   promotion that's going on right now my [TS]

01:31:37   BMW if you have no in a BMW Lexus Audi [TS]

01:31:40   etcetera you can get a multi-thousand [TS]

01:31:43   dollar discount on a brand new Volvo so [TS]

01:31:45   hmm how about them apples wait do you [TS]

01:31:47   trade it in or just buy you owning it [TS]

01:31:50   just by owning it because they're trying [TS]

01:31:51   to they're trying to get owners of other [TS]

01:31:56   luxury marques mark Sparky's whatever [TS]

01:31:58   those things get luxury owners to come [TS]

01:32:02   to Volvo and so just by having one in [TS]

01:32:04   the family we got I think was three [TS]

01:32:06   thousand dollars off which is pretty [TS]

01:32:07   awesome Wow so that was pretty cool but [TS]

01:32:10   yeah buying a car is terrible [TS]

01:32:12   it's terrible it's just a friggin [TS]

01:32:15   nightmare from start to finish I mean if [TS]

01:32:17   I didn't care about the cost of the car [TS]

01:32:19   it'd be great no worries but it's [TS]

01:32:22   terrible because not only buying a house [TS]

01:32:25   the dealer's one and only job is to get [TS]

01:32:28   asthma to extract all of the money from [TS]

01:32:31   you and your one and only position is to [TS]

01:32:33   try to extract as little as possible [TS]

01:32:36   from from your own wallet so you know [TS]

01:32:39   like miss the Baron in the chat is [TS]

01:32:42   saying well could I've just paid MSRP [TS]

01:32:44   sure I could have but that would have [TS]

01:32:46   been I almost ten thousand dollars more [TS]

01:32:49   than we paid like no that's no I'm not [TS]

01:32:52   made of money so no I'm not going to do [TS]

01:32:54   that oh my god I hate I hate buying a [TS]

01:32:58   car I just I don't want to do it for a [TS]

01:33:00   long time and that's why I think that in [TS]

01:33:02   part of the reason I mean Aaron who [TS]

01:33:03   loved her Mazda as I said but part of [TS]

01:33:05   the reason that she didn't want a new [TS]

01:33:06   car was because she did want to go [TS]

01:33:07   through this and it's just it's a [TS]

01:33:09   freaking nightmare I hate it so what [TS]

01:33:11   kind of silver did you get I think it's [TS]

01:33:13   just silver silver I forget that what [TS]

01:33:15   the official silver metallic osmium gray [TS]

01:33:17   metallic no be Umbra is what I really [TS]

01:33:20   thought would be good oh that the color [TS]

01:33:21   options on this car are friggin terrible [TS]

01:33:23   unless you get into like the super gray [TS]

01:33:25   metallic no I believe it was just silver [TS]

01:33:29   the osmium is what I thought looked the [TS]

01:33:31   best of the available options so it's a [TS]

01:33:33   xc90 momentum which is the cheapest xc90 [TS]

01:33:36   they make however within xc90 Momentum's [TS]

01:33:39   you can get 5 v seat or 7 seat and we [TS]

01:33:42   got the 7 seat one with the bright [TS]

01:33:45   silver metallic we like I was starting [TS]

01:33:47   to say we I thought the osmium gray [TS]

01:33:49   actually looked better but um but we [TS]

01:33:52   ended up with silver because that's the [TS]

01:33:53   one that the dealer could get their [TS]

01:33:54   hands on and make a deal a good deal on [TS]

01:33:55   what engine you get so you get T 5 or t6 [TS]

01:33:58   so it's 86 which is because as soon as [TS]

01:34:01   you go third row that means you're [TS]

01:34:03   getting a t6 so it's a t6 all-wheel [TS]

01:34:06   drive so it's you've had to get the fast [TS]

01:34:08   engine [TS]

01:34:09   well not exactly so here's the thing the [TS]

01:34:11   xc90 ranges from forty or forty five [TS]

01:34:13   thousand dollars to a hundred in ten [TS]

01:34:16   thousand dollars or something like that [TS]

01:34:17   I saw that it's like a Porsche could [TS]

01:34:20   just double the price of the car with [TS]

01:34:22   options that's it yeah because well what [TS]

01:34:24   it is is they make a version I forget [TS]

01:34:25   the name of [TS]

01:34:26   doesn't a great thing yeah well but not [TS]

01:34:28   only is it a v8 hybrid but beyond that [TS]

01:34:30   it's actually a four seater [TS]

01:34:31   so the back is just blocked off and it's [TS]

01:34:33   clearly like an executives I'm going to [TS]

01:34:36   be chauffeured in the SUV sort of thing [TS]

01:34:39   but anyway so yeah so ours was ours we [TS]

01:34:42   started as cheap as you could go in [TS]

01:34:44   terms of the trim and then made it seven [TS]

01:34:48   seats so that makes it slightly fancier [TS]

01:34:50   and then it's actually pretty darn well [TS]

01:34:52   optioned which is great so it has pretty [TS]

01:34:55   much all of the the bits and bobs that [TS]

01:34:56   we could possibly want but it's pretty [TS]

01:34:59   cool I mean I haven't driven this one [TS]

01:35:01   yet we did do an overnight test drive [TS]

01:35:03   several months ago of a less loaded one [TS]

01:35:05   and you know it does have car play which [TS]

01:35:08   I've played with very briefly when we [TS]

01:35:10   test drove it and it was really nice [TS]

01:35:12   there are definitely problems with it [TS]

01:35:14   but it was really nice it has like the [TS]

01:35:16   bird's-eye view it has a heads-up [TS]

01:35:17   display so a lot of it is a lot of it is [TS]

01:35:20   very similar to the m5 actually or [TS]

01:35:21   reminds me of the m5 but I'm really [TS]

01:35:24   looking forward to it it has a heated [TS]

01:35:26   steering wheel with which we've never [TS]

01:35:27   had before it parks itself which is [TS]

01:35:29   something we've never had before it's [TS]

01:35:30   got an automatic just like the new m5 [TS]

01:35:34   watching that but that makes me sad with [TS]

01:35:38   what they've done to the m5 is sad [TS]

01:35:41   indeed [TS]

01:35:42   oh and it's both supercharged and [TS]

01:35:44   turbocharged how about that that's [TS]

01:35:46   possible yeah so I I didn't even read [TS]

01:35:49   into this much but I I think the the [TS]

01:35:51   idea is that the supercharger which is [TS]

01:35:53   belt driven is good for low rpm like [TS]

01:35:56   when you're just taking off and then the [TS]

01:35:57   turbocharger is better once you've got [TS]

01:35:59   some some motion going and once you have [TS]

01:36:01   some RPMs it can do both because [TS]

01:36:03   turbocharger is exhaust driven so right [TS]

01:36:05   you know no competition for things that [TS]

01:36:07   are driving the things that are blowing [TS]

01:36:08   air and here engine indeed but I you [TS]

01:36:11   know Aaron and I we got next to each [TS]

01:36:12   other one week so I drove to the Volvo [TS]

01:36:14   dealer and she drove separately to the [TS]

01:36:16   Volvo dealer and then you know we were [TS]

01:36:17   going to grab a late dinner afterwards [TS]

01:36:20   and I got next to her at a stoplight and [TS]

01:36:22   she took off with not any particular [TS]

01:36:24   quickness but I could hear that [TS]

01:36:26   supercharger whine coming from a Volvo [TS]

01:36:28   again I would call it a truck I know [TS]

01:36:30   it's not a truck but coming from a Volvo [TS]

01:36:31   SUV and it's just like what why is that [TS]

01:36:35   noise coming from it's just it's so [TS]

01:36:38   weird [TS]

01:36:40   but anyway so yeah so so far so good I [TS]

01:36:42   mean we didn't really get a chance to [TS]

01:36:43   play with it since we got home we got [TS]

01:36:46   home put Declan to bed I had to do a [TS]

01:36:49   little homework for analog which we're [TS]

01:36:50   recording tomorrow I played in the car [TS]

01:36:52   for two minutes [TS]

01:36:53   realized they screwed up the [TS]

01:36:55   registration on the car which is going [TS]

01:36:56   to be delightful to work out and then [TS]

01:36:59   came upstairs to record this so at a [TS]

01:37:02   glance super nice we're really excited [TS]

01:37:05   but I hate I hate buying cars you guys [TS]

01:37:08   it's the worst well I think you know but [TS]

01:37:10   you have to come to peace with in order [TS]

01:37:13   to buy cars without having this just [TS]

01:37:15   massive you know anxiety and negativity [TS]

01:37:18   but the whole thing is that there's no [TS]

01:37:20   way to buy a car and not lose a bunch of [TS]

01:37:23   money like you're losing it somewhere [TS]

01:37:24   you know somehow you're losing a bunch [TS]

01:37:27   of money because a car is not an [TS]

01:37:29   investment [TS]

01:37:30   it's a giant depreciating usable you [TS]

01:37:33   know disposable eventually asset so [TS]

01:37:36   there is no way to own a car and have it [TS]

01:37:39   not cost you a lot of money in some way [TS]

01:37:41   mm-hm and so and all the different ways [TS]

01:37:44   you can buy it you know different [TS]

01:37:46   financing options leasing versus buying [TS]

01:37:47   they're they're all just you're gonna [TS]

01:37:50   lose a lot of money somewhere and when [TS]

01:37:52   you go into the dealer you know that you [TS]

01:37:55   know for a dealer if it hasn't you go [TS]

01:37:56   Sheila prices which is most of them you [TS]

01:37:59   know that they're gonna make a profit [TS]

01:38:01   somewhere off of you you know like and [TS]

01:38:03   and you eat you can look at it two ways [TS]

01:38:05   you can look at it as well you know they [TS]

01:38:07   got to make money to they have people to [TS]

01:38:08   pay whatever else do you can also look [TS]

01:38:09   at it as every cent I give them is me [TS]

01:38:12   losing money unnecessarily because I [TS]

01:38:14   don't care about them I just want this [TS]

01:38:16   vehicle yeah and I feel both of those [TS]

01:38:17   things and when you're talking about [TS]

01:38:21   large amounts of you know large amounts [TS]

01:38:23   of money like like you are with car [TS]

01:38:24   margins like it's hard to feel a lot of [TS]

01:38:27   sympathy for the person that you spent [TS]

01:38:28   15 minutes talking to to think that they [TS]

01:38:30   suddenly deserve $6,000 yes look you [TS]

01:38:33   might you know you actually know I think [TS]

01:38:35   I'll give you you know 100 bucks of this [TS]

01:38:39   Marchant and I want the car for invoice [TS]

01:38:40   like yeah that's it so you're right [TS]

01:38:42   there's this constant pressure between [TS]

01:38:44   like what you want and what they want [TS]

01:38:45   but I feel like at some point in order [TS]

01:38:48   to go through this and not feel horrible [TS]

01:38:52   like you do right [TS]

01:38:53   now like you just bought a new car well [TS]

01:38:55   your wife just bought a new car and so [TS]

01:38:58   you have a new car in the family and [TS]

01:38:59   that's really cool for both of you and [TS]

01:39:00   yeah and and this should be an [TS]

01:39:03   unquestioned celebration especially [TS]

01:39:06   given how rarely you guys buy new cars [TS]

01:39:08   and and how much you love cars this [TS]

01:39:11   should be a celebration time and instead [TS]

01:39:13   you're being mad about this part of it [TS]

01:39:15   or you're you're grumbly about it [TS]

01:39:17   because yeah because you you know that [TS]

01:39:20   somewhere you probably got screwed for [TS]

01:39:22   some amount of money along the way oh [TS]

01:39:24   yeah or or at least a lot of time so you [TS]

01:39:29   can also think of it this way that [TS]

01:39:31   dealerships don't necessarily make all [TS]

01:39:33   or even most of their money from selling [TS]

01:39:35   new cars so it could be that you [TS]

01:39:37   happened upon a dealership in a [TS]

01:39:39   situation in a particular car where the [TS]

01:39:41   dealership didn't make any money off [TS]

01:39:43   this sale or even lost money and they [TS]

01:39:45   hope to make it up in this service [TS]

01:39:46   department or you know on they screwed [TS]

01:39:48   you on your trade-in or whatever it like [TS]

01:39:50   they have ways to make money other than [TS]

01:39:52   just raising other than just profit [TS]

01:39:54   margins on cars they sell you and in [TS]

01:39:56   certain situations you can get a car [TS]

01:39:58   where the dealer gets little or no [TS]

01:40:00   profit from the car but they will find [TS]

01:40:02   some other way that they hope to get the [TS]

01:40:03   money from you and so if you can [TS]

01:40:05   convince yourself that you were in one [TS]

01:40:06   of those situations that they let this [TS]

01:40:08   go out the door for no profit in the [TS]

01:40:11   hopes of making it up by charging you an [TS]

01:40:13   arm and a leg for service then maybe you [TS]

01:40:16   feel better about the purchase yeah but [TS]

01:40:18   but I think they're you know the reality [TS]

01:40:20   is you got a new car it costs a lot of [TS]

01:40:23   money but you have a new car enjoy it [TS]

01:40:26   and no matter how you did this it was [TS]

01:40:28   gonna cost you a lot of money you know [TS]

01:40:30   whether it cost you I don't know what [TS]

01:40:31   this cost so you know what let's say [TS]

01:40:32   whether it cost you like forty five [TS]

01:40:35   thousand dollars or forty six thousand [TS]

01:40:37   dollars like that's not going to you [TS]

01:40:39   know if you look at it absolute terms I [TS]

01:40:41   go on I might have be able to save a [TS]

01:40:43   thousand dollars that's a lot of money [TS]

01:40:44   but you look at in relative terms of [TS]

01:40:46   what you're paying for this car it's [TS]

01:40:47   like okay that's a small difference it's [TS]

01:40:49   not going to make me angry for a month [TS]

01:40:53   over this like let's just enjoy it right [TS]

01:40:55   and I think it's it's the only the only [TS]

01:40:57   emotionally healthy way to look at car [TS]

01:40:59   purchases and believe me I've been on [TS]

01:41:00   both sides of those like I've had a lot [TS]

01:41:02   of angry car investments over time but [TS]

01:41:06   you know mostly before the show happened [TS]

01:41:08   I had a lot of cars and not not always [TS]

01:41:11   have gone well or have been financially [TS]

01:41:13   prudent but the the enjoyment you get [TS]

01:41:17   out of this like that should be [TS]

01:41:19   untarnished as much as possible and it's [TS]

01:41:21   hard when it's this much money because [TS]

01:41:23   you know it's hard to spend this much [TS]

01:41:24   money and just be flippin about it but [TS]

01:41:26   you love cars you've been waiting for a [TS]

01:41:30   long time and talking and debating about [TS]

01:41:31   which car to get for this role for Aaron [TS]

01:41:33   for a very long time enjoy it just in [TS]

01:41:36   just enjoy it and it's it's kind of like [TS]

01:41:39   the same philosophy of John like he and [TS]

01:41:42   was it wasn't you John or Merlyn talking [TS]

01:41:43   about when you go to Disney to just kind [TS]

01:41:46   of like know that it's gonna cost you a [TS]

01:41:47   fortune and just plan for the head of [TS]

01:41:49   time and then when you're there just [TS]

01:41:50   enjoy it that was me [TS]

01:41:51   yeah I figured as you see like I you [TS]

01:41:53   kind of have to do that Casey with with [TS]

01:41:55   car purchases like you know it's gonna [TS]

01:41:58   cost you a fortune somehow at the end of [TS]

01:42:00   it you're gonna have something that you [TS]

01:42:01   love it's gonna be really nice so just [TS]

01:42:04   accept it no no you're gonna get screwed [TS]

01:42:07   somewhere and then try to move on from [TS]

01:42:10   that or don't let it get to you so much [TS]

01:42:12   and just enjoy the thing yeah it's funny [TS]

01:42:14   you say that because so this you know [TS]

01:42:17   the process started with you know me [TS]

01:42:18   going to the dealer just cold and being [TS]

01:42:21   like okay you know what do you what do [TS]

01:42:22   you have roughly what it's that cost [TS]

01:42:23   bubble I was it was way out of our price [TS]

01:42:25   range so then we tried the Costco thing [TS]

01:42:28   because Costco supposedly says okay we [TS]

01:42:30   have pre-negotiated you know certain [TS]

01:42:32   cars with certain options I did that the [TS]

01:42:35   past two cars I bought two we did not [TS]

01:42:37   impressed with their price both times [TS]

01:42:38   yeah same so in when we went to the [TS]

01:42:40   local dealer and said oh by the way we [TS]

01:42:41   didn't tell you before we're Costco D [TS]

01:42:43   people and they basically said okay [TS]

01:42:44   whatever that means you get a couple [TS]

01:42:46   hundred dollars off whoo [TS]

01:42:47   and then we try true car and all that [TS]

01:42:50   did all that is in my experience I [TS]

01:42:53   shouldn't say this is though it's [TS]

01:42:54   factual but in my experience all true [TS]

01:42:56   car is is a sales funnel for car [TS]

01:42:58   dealerships so then you get blown up [TS]

01:42:59   with via email and phone with people who [TS]

01:43:02   are not interested in making a deal [TS]

01:43:03   they're just interested in having [TS]

01:43:04   somebody new to chase whatever so what I [TS]

01:43:08   ended up doing like I think I said [TS]

01:43:09   earlier is I just had you know two or [TS]

01:43:10   three dealers bidding against each other [TS]

01:43:12   but it got to the point that once I got [TS]

01:43:15   Richmond to a price point that I thought [TS]

01:43:17   was fair which [TS]

01:43:19   only happened because I had gotten other [TS]

01:43:21   dealers to make pretty aggressive [TS]

01:43:23   opening offers then at that point I'm [TS]

01:43:25   like going back and forth about $100 [TS]

01:43:27   here $200 there $100 hundred hours here [TS]

01:43:30   200 hours there and it occurred to me to [TS]

01:43:31   your point Marco what am I doing here [TS]

01:43:33   like at this point I'm there right I [TS]

01:43:38   mean I don't want to talk about exactly [TS]

01:43:41   how much the car was but you know a [TS]

01:43:42   hundred or two hundred dollars in the [TS]

01:43:44   grand scheme of things on a car that's [TS]

01:43:46   you know of this price is nothing well [TS]

01:43:50   that's how they get you though that's [TS]

01:43:51   something about things we go [TS]

01:43:54   they cost thousands and thousands of [TS]

01:43:55   dollars you're like well when I'm [TS]

01:43:56   spending these tens of thousands when [TS]

01:43:58   I'm spending five figures anyway a [TS]

01:44:00   couple hundred bucks [TS]

01:44:01   there's nothing whereas if you are [TS]

01:44:03   spending a hundred bucks a couple [TS]

01:44:06   hundred bucks on top of that you'd be [TS]

01:44:07   like whoa but it's the same amount of [TS]

01:44:10   money in both cases yeah I'd be really [TS]

01:44:12   careful with large purchases that you [TS]

01:44:14   couldn't slip into that sure I'll get [TS]

01:44:16   the body-colored key fob for 500 bucks [TS]

01:44:19   it's nothing compared to the present [TS]

01:44:20   payments like don't do it just think you [TS]

01:44:22   were doing the right thing although did [TS]

01:44:24   you write you sent us a link to a [TS]

01:44:25   picture is this your actual car but the [TS]

01:44:27   link I put in the in the chat which I [TS]

01:44:29   will not be putting the show notes is [TS]

01:44:30   the actual car yeah so it looks white [TS]

01:44:32   that's all I'm gonna say about it does [TS]

01:44:33   look white no you're right it does this [TS]

01:44:35   is a very light silver about a really [TS]

01:44:39   big white no I mean I don't think it [TS]

01:44:44   looks bad I I mean I don't know anything [TS]

01:44:46   about SUVs really like they don't appeal [TS]

01:44:48   to me so I have a hard time judging them [TS]

01:44:50   but or as they go this looks pretty nice [TS]

01:44:52   yeah I mean I'm looking forward to it [TS]

01:44:55   well it does look y-you know that's a [TS]

01:44:57   very light silver without question [TS]

01:44:59   without question maybe I mean you know [TS]

01:45:01   what I'll do is I'll put that one of the [TS]

01:45:02   pictures in the show notes so I'm not [TS]

01:45:04   gonna put the link to like the listing [TS]

01:45:05   and it's probably to disappear any [TS]

01:45:06   minute anyway but I'll put a link to the [TS]

01:45:08   picture then people can reverse image [TS]

01:45:09   search it's not gonna do you want I [TS]

01:45:12   think it might just be overexposed there [TS]

01:45:14   are a couple of angles where it starts [TS]

01:45:15   to look silver it does look that way [TS]

01:45:16   yeah but follow John's advice of that I [TS]

01:45:19   love like after telling you to like try [TS]

01:45:21   to reduce anxiety about this purchase [TS]

01:45:22   the fact that John led with that's how [TS]

01:45:24   they get you is amazing but [TS]

01:45:32   the you know I feel like that's how the [TS]

01:45:34   that's how they get you rationale is [TS]

01:45:36   good when considering extras and options [TS]

01:45:39   however when when just agonizing over [TS]

01:45:42   the the bulk of this price and like the [TS]

01:45:45   purchase price the asking price the [TS]

01:45:47   profit margin and the invoice price all [TS]

01:45:48   this stuff like this is where it's it's [TS]

01:45:50   it's a good time to just say you know [TS]

01:45:53   what I'm gonna be spending a lot of [TS]

01:45:54   money on this I'll try to be responsible [TS]

01:45:56   but it's not worth you know agonizing [TS]

01:45:59   about it forever because keep in mind to [TS]

01:46:00   like and this is this is one area where [TS]

01:46:02   a lot of people get caught up there is [TS]

01:46:04   there is a value that it might be hard [TS]

01:46:07   to quantify but there is a value to your [TS]

01:46:11   own mental health regarding you know the [TS]

01:46:14   surrounding this so you are not only [TS]

01:46:15   spending a lot of time trying to extract [TS]

01:46:18   the negotiations out of the dealer's so [TS]

01:46:20   like you know the first half of the time [TS]

01:46:23   that you spend on that is probably worth [TS]

01:46:24   it but then you get diminishing returns [TS]

01:46:25   after that and so that's yeah so you [TS]

01:46:27   know there's that issue of like time [TS]

01:46:29   spent that it's worth keeping that in [TS]

01:46:31   check and then also like if you're gonna [TS]

01:46:34   get all mad about something that's a [TS]

01:46:36   hundred dollars it's like okay well are [TS]

01:46:38   you doing is that kinda like ruin an [TS]

01:46:39   evening for you is is gonna ruin a few [TS]

01:46:42   evenings is it gonna ruin a week for you [TS]

01:46:44   are you gonna be mad for a week over a [TS]

01:46:45   hundred dollars is that worth it to you [TS]

01:46:47   are you gonna get mad in front of your [TS]

01:46:49   kid about something like this how is [TS]

01:46:52   that gonna make him feel is that worth a [TS]

01:46:53   hundred dollars to you like there's a [TS]

01:46:55   cost to you and and to to your health [TS]

01:46:59   and to your family and to the mood [TS]

01:47:01   around you the people around you when [TS]

01:47:04   when things bother you too much and so [TS]

01:47:07   sometimes it's actually worth just [TS]

01:47:09   saying you know what fine I'll I'll I'll [TS]

01:47:10   get screwed for the hundred bucks [TS]

01:47:11   because I don't want to deal with it for [TS]

01:47:13   the next week and so and I don't know if [TS]

01:47:16   you did any of that cuz I wasn't there [TS]

01:47:18   look she's probably a good thing but but [TS]

01:47:22   a lot of people have trouble seeing the [TS]

01:47:25   perspective on that and and finding that [TS]

01:47:28   balance and I've had trouble with this a [TS]

01:47:29   lot before or two and this is something [TS]

01:47:31   I've only more recently started thinking [TS]

01:47:34   more about and there's a lot of value to [TS]

01:47:40   yourself being able to just move on from [TS]

01:47:43   something yeah I [TS]

01:47:45   I oftentimes think that that you can be [TS]

01:47:48   a little cavalier about or fat maybe a [TS]

01:47:50   little fast and loose about how you [TS]

01:47:52   spend your money given that you impulse [TS]

01:47:54   bottom you know oh this really expensive [TS]

01:47:56   TV and all that jazz but III absolutely [TS]

01:47:59   a hundred percent agree with you that [TS]

01:48:00   the key here is to get get the purchase [TS]

01:48:05   down to a place where you think you're [TS]

01:48:07   not getting screwed to where you think [TS]

01:48:10   you're you're doing okay and then at [TS]

01:48:12   that point when you're nickel and diming [TS]

01:48:14   the dealer or yourself I'm is it really [TS]

01:48:18   really worth it anymore you know it got [TS]

01:48:20   to the point that I was just stressing [TS]

01:48:23   myself out over you know this little bit [TS]

01:48:26   of money that yes $100 like I don't mean [TS]

01:48:29   to say that $100 isn't a lot of money [TS]

01:48:31   I'm not trying to say that at all [TS]

01:48:33   $100 is absolutely a lot of money what [TS]

01:48:36   I'm saying is there comes a time where [TS]

01:48:37   you have to say to yourself you know [TS]

01:48:38   what this just ain't worth it [TS]

01:48:40   it's just not worth continuing to do [TS]

01:48:43   this to yourself and that's that's where [TS]

01:48:45   I eventually got is just it's it's not [TS]

01:48:48   worth it for me to continue to stress [TS]

01:48:50   about this and so in the end I am super [TS]

01:48:54   happy about the purchase I think it's [TS]

01:48:56   gonna be really great for the family I [TS]

01:48:58   think I'm really looking forward to the [TS]

01:49:00   car we've never had a Volvo I don't [TS]

01:49:02   think anyone in our extended families [TS]

01:49:04   have had a Volvo I've certainly been [TS]

01:49:05   around them in the past but I'm really [TS]

01:49:09   looking forward to it and at a glance it [TS]

01:49:11   seems super nice it has so many bits and [TS]

01:49:13   bobs from the technology point of view I [TS]

01:49:15   mean it's its own it apparently like one [TS]

01:49:18   of the things we did unbeknownst to us [TS]

01:49:19   was the dealer signed us up for like a [TS]

01:49:21   three-month trial on AT&T because the [TS]

01:49:23   thing is its own Wi-Fi hotspot like yeah [TS]

01:49:26   it's got carplay as I mentioned before [TS]

01:49:28   it's got the I think I said it's got the [TS]

01:49:30   bird's-eye view so when you park you [TS]

01:49:32   know it although I don't think it's [TS]

01:49:34   quite as good as the m5s was but anyway [TS]

01:49:35   as you park it'll show you everything [TS]

01:49:37   around you and has of course backup [TS]

01:49:38   camera and all that jazz it has the [TS]

01:49:40   three row seating which to answer [TS]

01:49:42   somebody in the chat so the reason we [TS]

01:49:45   got the third row seating is because we [TS]

01:49:46   want the option of putting like friends [TS]

01:49:49   or many adults or really in a lot of [TS]

01:49:51   cases just having plenty of storage [TS]

01:49:53   space in the back because you look at [TS]

01:49:55   your average x5s trunk and it's [TS]

01:49:58   not that big given how big the car is [TS]

01:50:01   and I think part of the problem here is [TS]

01:50:03   that Aaron's Mazda was not a terribly [TS]

01:50:08   large car but had a cavern of a trunk [TS]

01:50:12   it was just preposterous ly large and so [TS]

01:50:15   she didn't really if she's gonna get [TS]

01:50:16   this big you know SUV she's not gonna [TS]

01:50:18   want to give up on that tremendous trunk [TS]

01:50:20   and I don't think that's unreasonable [TS]

01:50:23   so yeah so it's super nice it [TS]

01:50:27   theoretically will parallel park itself [TS]

01:50:29   it theoretically will perpendicularly [TS]

01:50:32   park itself I think by backing in [TS]

01:50:34   although I'm not a hundred percent sure [TS]

01:50:35   Wow I didn't even think about that man [TS]

01:50:36   if it doesn't back in I'm gonna be [TS]

01:50:37   furious we have to return it exactly so [TS]

01:50:43   so yeah so it's yeah I'm really looking [TS]

01:50:47   forward to I say looking forward to it [TS]

01:50:48   only because like I haven't driven it [TS]

01:50:50   yet and we haven't really played with [TS]

01:50:52   all the technology stuff yet but it's [TS]

01:50:55   it's tough because here it is it's like [TS]

01:50:57   such a monumental day and moment in our [TS]

01:50:59   lives and it was slightly miserable [TS]

01:51:01   because I was sad to see the monster go [TS]

01:51:03   when aaron was devastated to see the [TS]

01:51:04   monster go she wanted the new car it's [TS]

01:51:06   not like I'm compelling her to get a new [TS]

01:51:07   car but she was devastated to see that [TS]

01:51:09   car go but you know it's also it's all [TS]

01:51:14   it's like that ah thank god that's over [TS]

01:51:17   with because I don't want to ever want [TS]

01:51:19   to do that crap again you know it's that [TS]

01:51:20   that that release that just finally and [TS]

01:51:24   so yeah I'm not sure if I'm gonna do any [TS]

01:51:27   sort of formal review for either the [TS]

01:51:30   website or my quote-unquote YouTube [TS]

01:51:32   channel I mean I have a channel that has [TS]

01:51:33   a single video on it [TS]

01:51:35   you can just call it your vlog it's okay [TS]

01:51:36   yeah totally [TS]

01:51:38   but yeah so far so good it seems really [TS]

01:51:41   nice and I'm really looking forward to [TS]

01:51:44   spending more time in it and getting to [TS]

01:51:46   check out all the bits and bobs and [TS]

01:51:47   whatnot should have thought about moving [TS]

01:51:49   to a different state so you wouldn't [TS]

01:51:51   have to have that stupid registration [TS]

01:51:52   sticker in the middle your windshield I [TS]

01:51:54   no doubt that it's not actually is the [TS]

01:51:58   one in Aaron's off center yeah so I'm [TS]

01:52:00   gonna say is it a little bit yeah it's a [TS]

01:52:03   little bit to the left it almost doesn't [TS]

01:52:05   matter because it being anywhere near [TS]

01:52:07   the middle of your windshield is so [TS]

01:52:08   awful to the fact that it's [TS]

01:52:10   Center is like a secondary concern but [TS]

01:52:12   if I move I would probably move to like [TS]

01:52:14   Pennsylvania or North Carolina where I [TS]

01:52:16   don't recall where the stickers are [TS]

01:52:17   there but at least front damn licensed [TS]

01:52:20   down drives me insane that we have to [TS]

01:52:22   have those on our cars by the way I've [TS]

01:52:24   seen this picture of your gloriously [TS]

01:52:26   white car next to Aaron's new allegedly [TS]

01:52:29   silver car that is really light silver [TS]

01:52:33   to be fair but not very [TS]

01:52:35   different-looking cars now I miss [TS]

01:52:37   Aaron's car Aaron's car look at that [TS]

01:52:39   well what a great 90s car that was [TS]

01:52:46   totally a 90s car yeah it is oh I'm [TS]

01:52:51   sorry I was so happy now I'm so angry at [TS]

01:52:53   the two of you that's all car shaped and [TS]

01:52:57   everything yeah that's awesome it [TS]

01:52:58   doesn't look that different from my from [TS]

01:52:59   my very well-loved 96 Maxima that I had [TS]

01:53:02   mmm it's a 2007 mazda 6 you guys well [TS]

01:53:06   you got to do this it doesn't mean it [TS]

01:53:07   was designed 2007 [TS]